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Finally... => Forum Games and Roleplaying => Topic started by: Twinwolf on December 19, 2019, 12:24:32 pm

Title: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Twinwolf on December 19, 2019, 12:24:32 pm

Welcome, Etroan Engineer.

Don’t mind the construction sounds, the test facility is still in the works.

War is coming. It’s been a long peace, but it won’t last forever, and tensions are brewing with the awful Askians. As you all know, in the Treaty of Iraine, all signatories agreed to make efforts to disarm. And our leaders at the time, expecting similar honor from other countries, actually did it! They decommisioned the R&D division and ceremonially burned it’s headquarters, and the funding was never fronted to rebuild it! Until now, that is. So we’re rebuilding R&D from scratch. While our facilities are built, we'll be looking to our past to gain inspiration for the weapons of our future. 

---

Ours is a long, eventful history compared to many nations. Oh the advancements we made, the wars we won and the culture we created! But even the greatest states started from nothing. We were once a people no different from the other tribes and soon-to-be-kingdoms of humanity, whether we were nomadic sailors or desert hunters or settling in an arboreal forest. But we would soon change that.

It is now the Design Phase.

There will be two designs this turn. For the first, you are asked what set your people apart from the rest in this era? What technology defined the not-yet Etroans?

The second design this turn, is what unique resource was found in your lands, and nowhere else? What nearly magic (and in fact, your ancestors may well have thought it magic!) material gave your people early advantages?

While not strictly required, it is encouraged to include narrative in these designs - particularly, at this early stage, what sort of terrain your nation found itself in, as this will influence the map.

---

Core Thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175236.0)

---

Preliminary Design Phase 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175235.msg8071603#msg8071603)
Preliminary Revision Phase 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175235.msg8072137#msg8072137)
Preliminary Design Phase 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175235.msg8074399#msg8074399)
Preliminary Revision Phase 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175235.msg8077444#msg8077444)
Preliminary Design Phase 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175235.msg8080591#msg8080591)

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1)
Post by: Rockeater on December 19, 2019, 02:06:51 pm

here

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1)
Post by: Doomblade187 on December 19, 2019, 03:17:04 pm

In!

The Devil's Swarm

Tales from our ancient past tell us of the first time we encountered the Mutabeetle. [NAME PENDING] The small herds of large, vicious beasts were a major threat to the early inhabitants of the area, and early settlements were often protected by walls and stakes. However, a particularly bright healer figured out how to extract the essence that created the monstrosities that used to hunt us, and proceeded to fight monsters, with monsters. Domesticated dogs were turned into warbeasts, and we swiftly established our domain over the region.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1)
Post by: UristMcRiley on December 19, 2019, 07:08:16 pm

Etroan Clans
Ancient Etroa was a violent and savage place with tall jagged peaks to the East and a unforgiving sea to the west. At some point our earliest ancestors migrated here some scholars say from over the sea and others say from a long forgotten land bridge the truth is nobody quite knows. However when those early Etroan's arrived they settled in tight knit family groups from the coastal swamps to the eastern hills and the dusty plains in between. Becoming masters of there own domains excelling in and carving a niche out in these harsh eco systems. As the progress of man marched on the land and its many deadly creatures became less of a threat the varying clans took to warring with each other be it for slaves, food or treasures. They fought and fought for generations that is until the first High Elder of Etroa came to power unifying the clans and focusing there war making efforts too the east too the land of Askia and its weak inhabitants. Growing strong and powerful off the spoils, at least until that unfortunate peace. However despite the peace the warrior spirit never died within the Etroan and many are excited at this chance of war finally able to once again sally from the fortified clan villages form a great horde once again and sweep the vile Askian dogs from before us.

Etroa Forever, Etroa Eternal

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1)
Post by: Stirk on December 19, 2019, 08:09:19 pm

Unique Resource: Etroa has long been known as "The Land of Floating Rocks". It would be immediately apparent to anyone who entered as to why, it is a land where even boulders hover through the air as if they were birds. This unique geographical feature is due to an ore that is rich in this land and only this land - dubbed Etronium. While one may assume this is due to a powerful magnetic force, you would be off the mark. In truth the boulders float as they are somehow less dense then air in perhaps the most spectacular demonstration of Etronium's abilities. It is a metal with highly variable properties based off of its trace components. It can become heavier then lead or lighter than air, as shiny as a mirror or as dull as a brick, hard as diamond or soft as a pillow. In short it is a metal that can be used for any and all purposes, a true miracle resource. In the past Etroans made due with mining material of the specific property they needed, but in relatively recent years scientists have begun experimenting (for peaceful purposes, naturally) with the trace components allowing one form of Etronium to transmute into a different form by adding or removing trace components until they achieve the form they want. The research is currently ongoing, with density modification being the only practical change for large-scale use.

Set Apart: However this resource was not kind to the first Etroans. As cool as the floating boulders where, it meant the land had been plagued with "sandstorms" that threw said boulders across the grassy plains at high speeds. With such a hindrance, permanent settlements were limited to the mountainous coast, with those who lived on the plains and rolling hills being forced into a nomadic lifestyle. Yet humans are adaptive creatures. The first Etroans would carve out floating boulders big enough for a man to fit in, then tie a long rope to it to use as a kite. Their bravest would be sent up into the sky to act as scouts, noticing changes in the weather that would necessitate a swift evacuation via the many rivers that crossed the land. As the first men to fly, this left a strong impression on any foreign visitors and the land itself. Legend says that Etroans descended from the Heavens and have trying to get back ever sense.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1)
Post by: UristMcRiley on December 19, 2019, 08:58:03 pm

Not a fan of the whole floating rocks deal i mean it makes tactical sense dont get me wrong but it just seems overdone you know

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1)
Post by: Stirk on December 19, 2019, 09:08:07 pm

Quote from: UristMcRiley on December 19, 2019, 08:58:03 pm

Not a fan of the whole floating rocks deal i mean it makes tactical sense dont get me wrong but it just seems overdone you know

You want them to get a bunch of floating pebbles together to make a magic carpet cloud thing?

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1)
Post by: UristMcRiley on December 19, 2019, 09:15:32 pm

I dont know how to explain it but the whole otherworldly properties of a stone enabling weird and unusual aircraft designs, to me seems over done i mean the war for the cinder spires arms race was built off that principle. Mind you I dont have a better option and it makes sense but from a personal perspective and personal taste wise it just doesnt sit right.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1)
Post by: Rockeater on December 20, 2019, 04:42:57 am

It was also very similar to cilium in IWAR, what the game that inspired this one was a sequel to.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on December 20, 2019, 02:52:40 pm

I've never read either of those games, but got the same complaint on the discord >_>.

Alright, take 2!

Unique Resource: In the temperate forests of Etoa dwells a unique species of insect known as the "Spirit Bee". At first glance it would seem unspectacular, it has a blood red coloration rather than the standard black and yellow you would expect from such a creature, forms large hives taking up the entire trunk of its home tree, and it is slightly smaller than species found elsewhere. Its novelty comes from the hives themselves. They have evolved a unique defensive mechanism, known as "Spirit Glass", making them nearly impervious to predication. Essentially it somehow throws up a hive-shaped field of energy when anything comes near it, preventing any but the native bee population from even approaching the hive. This force-field runs off of the energy stored within the honey cells inside the hive, as such should any prove dedicated enough to endure the stings and spend the time to run out the field they would find an empty husk as their prize.


Set Apart: The first Etroans looked upon this creature with interest and a kind of reverence. They wished to know what was so valuable that the spirits themselves would form in the mortal world to protect it, and put the wisest minds between the mountains and the sea on the case. First was observation, with many years spent simply watching the progress of the insects. The scouts reported that sometimes a large bee would leave the hive, forming a new one elsewhere. This was their chance. Those who dwell on the mountains decided to capture the Queens while they had left the safety of their hive, those in the wooded valley decided to bribe the Queen by creating the perfect conditions for the hive, and those who live by the rocky coast (long used to dealing with the unpredictability of nature) simply wait until she has started making her hive and carve the tree to their purposes before the field goes into effect. In all three cases the result was the same; the invention of bee-keeping. In the following years they would discover ways to bypass the shielding to get the honey within, such as designing the hive in sections with long sticks allowing them to be removed, or hollowing the tree in a way that allows it to be tapped like sap. Some tribes continued to be mobile, coaxing the hive to form in a wooden box on long poles that may be carried or placed into a boat to follow along the winding rivers of the land.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Doomblade187 on December 21, 2019, 12:22:45 am

I do quite like the shield bees. I currently want a mutagen still.

Quote

Spirit Bee
Plant/Animal Mutagen: (1) Doomblade

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1)
Post by: The Ensorceler on December 21, 2019, 02:44:39 am

Resource: Sunshard (Heat)
Extracted from the eruption of alchemically unique volcanic vents and rifts carved across Etroa's landscapes, Sunshards are incredibly hot pieces of twisted volcanic glass, able to continuously emit heat for decades without exhaustion. Early Etroans relied upon larger Sunshards as essential to a functioning community, heating central dormintories and baking ceramics from clay for all to use.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Jilladilla on December 21, 2019, 03:18:09 am

Remember people; the special resources come with a sphere of influence; like IWAR's Caelium's Gravity, or Gavrilium's Energy; or MWAR's Well Material's Sound (It's also an example of a resource that isn't a specific thing; as Well Materials are 'things that come out of a Well')


Remember to include that with your special resources. If Twin is doing this the same way as MoP did (Twin, please yell at me if I am mistaken); we get one interaction as a freebie with the design of the resource, iirc.

For instance, Sunshards; ok, they emit heat constantly. Is their Sphere Heat? Temperature? Energy? All of these would fit the reaction, but all of which would take it in different directions in terms of possibilities.


But allow me to try one out myself:

Unique Resource: Actnium (As always, if you have a better name; please feel free to make suggestions)
Sphere: Enhancement

Many a foreigner taking an excursion throughout Etroan lands throughout time has witnessed locations on the landscape where bright orange-yellowish lines scar and mark the landscape. In most cases, they thought they struck gold. In most cases, the treasure they found was even more valuable: Actnium. Actnium has a peculiar reaction to the materials it 'bonds' with; it amplifies and enhances one or more of the features of said material; though exactly which is usually dependent on how it was bonded so. It's typically a very involved process to try and figure out how exactly to coax the Actnium to enhance the properties one desires to be enhanced, and not those that would actually render the material worse for the intended role, like brittleness or excessive flexibility. Said enhanced substances are nigh-indistinguishable from its un-enhanced brethren, with the exception of its superior properties; and the fact that it will invariably feature the harsh, nearly glowing orange-yellow lines marking its surface. On it's own, however, Actnium doesn't exactly do much; and frequently takes the form of a powder in its signature color. It's very rarely found on its own in nature, however.

In ancient times; places rich with Actnium were considered Sacred; and one could rarely fault them. The markings themselves that announce the presence of this most precious material must have appeared Divine in nature; the fact that it usually had unusual effects on the land, such as some being significantly more fertile than they had any right being, would only cement that mindset. Most early tribes of the Etroan people either settled near such a sacred location; made frequent trips between a few in their nomadic wandering; or often made pilgrimages to the sites; to bring back their bounty to their people.

---

And a design to go with it:

Ironbark Armor (to go with Actnium)
While Actnium certainly afforded the early Etroan Tribes a large measure of prosperity; between the locations of great fertility, enhanced stones, or just as a pretty, interesting trade good; what set the Etroan people a cut above the rest was their ingenuity in exploiting this opportunity afforded to them.

Throughout the lands of Etroa groves of a type of what would one day be called ironwood tree are, not exactly common, but not a rare sight either. Occasionally, one of these groves lies atop a Sacred Actnium deposit. Normally, under natural conditions; most plants cannot extract Actnium from the soil; however, these Ironwood trees were not most plants; and over the course of their lifespan, they slowly but surely extract a slow trickle of Actnium into their bodies; enhancing their hardness beyond their already substantial natural state, eventually to a level beyond the capabilities of the tools those early tribes had access to. Little more than a curiosity at first, in spite of the obvious sacredness at play.

But Etroan ingenuity prevailed, first working with fallen branches and smaller still attached twigs; then working with young trees that haven't yet become unworkably hard. Occasionally; an actnium enhanced stone tool was able to be made and used for the task. In one tribe's case the craftsmen slowly carved the branches into the desired shape throughout the trees life, in a decades-long act of craftsmanship that would almost certainly have to be finished by the apprentices. But however the case; the Etroan Tribes had a, though limited, supply of extremely resilient lumber. Though this isn't what set the tribes above their peers, no.

At seeing their finest tools (and sometimes weapons) repeatedly shatter against the sacred ironwood trees, the idea of attempting to garb their finest warriors with the bark of the tree to confer that same resilience to them was born. The results of their efforts; sheets of actnium-marked ironbark supported by similarly enhanced wooden poles typically backed by leather or hide and tied together... It was extremely crude by modern standards; but very effective for the time. With this armor; the champions of the Etroan people had little to fear from both great beasts, or hostile tribes seeking to claim their sacred groves or fields.

Notably, the practice of fabricating Ironbark Armor continued into the early bronze age, though typically only in ceremonial roles, or for metal-poor region's militia.

---

RIGHT! Tell me what you think, everyone? Suggestions, ideas for improvement, or heck, feel free to outright take the proposals, and make your own, slightly tweaked version of them! I don't mind.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on December 21, 2019, 02:45:17 pm

Quote from: Non-Special-Resource Design

Etroan Baths
Etroa is a land of plentiful volcanic vents and geysers, with rough terrain covered in the remnants of old lava flows interspersed with plains of fertile volcanic soil. Mineral-rich waters spill from geothermal pools and the geysers, poisoning some of the farmland but providing incredible health benefits as their heated, mineralized waters kill bacteria and provide Etroan people with traditions of constant hot baths and the building of nearly-sacred places for hot, sanitation-improving baths. In these ancient days, buildings are more primitive, though quite often the earthworks-walled towns and villages of our ancestors are built around or near such springs, despite the difficulty they impose on gathering fresh water.

Through this ancient tradition, we have become a people that does not suffer for congregating, disease is less prevalent and our health is much improved, for more than one reason. For without realizing it, we built our villages on top of geysers that sprayed small quantities of Actnium into the air to rain down and accumulate in the soil. Our plants grew taller, or were more bountiful, and our animals were healthier and larger thanks to cleanliness and the effects of the material.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Doomblade187 on December 21, 2019, 05:40:21 pm

The Change Venom

Long ago in our history, we first encountered roaming packs of enhanced, vicious animals - each one shaped in a manner uniquely mirroring their environment and abilities. They were also very aggressive, as we soon learned that they were being molded by parasites that injected them with venom and ensured they stayed well fed. Intrigued by what they found, the settlers soon captured some of the beetles and extracted the venom from them. What we found was amazing.

The Change Venom can warp a living being (animal or plant) into a form based on any nutrients mixed in and the form of the animal, emphasizing the being's natural form and abilities.

Domain: Mutation

Paired Design: Does of Burden
The area that the Etroans settled in lacked beasts of burden naturally. To fix this issue, healers experimented on the local small herbivores to create a substitute for both war and industry. A solution was found in deer, who, once improved showed both good speed and strength, suitable for both peace and wartime. Standing taller than a normal human, and lacking antlers typically (most males were too aggressive), they could run and carry superior to the neighbor's equine steeds.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: UristMcRiley on December 21, 2019, 05:53:22 pm

+1 too Change Venom

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Doomblade187 on December 21, 2019, 05:54:56 pm

Quote

Spirit Bee
Change Venom: (2) Doomblade, UristMcRiley

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on December 22, 2019, 09:23:15 pm

"Free AI" Concept:

Unique Resource: High up in the mountains in central Etroa is a fresh water spring surrounded by ice and snow. This is the "Whispering Water", as its name suggests you can hear snippets of conversation long past simply by being near it. Any object dipped in this water gains the bizarre ability to "whisper", that is to say you hold it up to your ear and can hear voices speaking at low volume. At first the whispering is nonsense. Just random phrases perhaps spoken near the spring in the past centuries. This can be remedied by whispering back into the object. It will learn a new phrase like a parrot would. So for example when an ancient hunter took his arrow then dipped it in the Whispering Water and repeated "East five suns to town. East five suns to town. East five suns to town....", any who held the arrow to their ear would hear "East five suns to town" until the object was broken.

As strange as this phenomena is, stranger still is the discovery that it is actually learning the phrase rather than simply mimicking it. An arrow tied to a tree as a sign mark will be unable to go East five suns to the town, but it will "understand" that there is a town five days by foot to the East. Early Etroans got little use of this ability, despite belief that charming objects would increase their potency. It wasn't until more advanced mechanisms became common place that this was put into use. As the whispering is caused by slight vibrations in the material mimicking the human vocal cords, it is capable of performing any action that can be done with slight vibrations. In a practical sense this means things like pull on a trigger, flip a small switch, or moving a dial.

For one example of how this would work, we look to a historic account of the assassination of a king. One day a mighty king was found with a bolt through his heart in his bed, despite having many diligent guards watching the doors throughout the night. A crossbow was discovered hidden in his room, and when placed to the ear repeated "Fire when the King enters the bed. Fire when the King enters the bed. Fire when the King enters the bed...", the murder weapon having acted on the assassin's orders pulling its own trigger and completing the mission.

Set Apart: While the pre-agg Etroans had no form of formal writing, the Whispering Waters created an odd "writing system" based utilizing the whispers. Small objects would be whispered into, marked for what they contain, then stored away for later use. Sign posts like those used in the example where common, as where trader's notes, stories, and whatever else you'd expect writing to be utilized for. Common material for use was leaves (often sewn together in a primitive "book" or scroll) for temporary notes, with rocks being used for more permanent records, and precious metals and gems for sacred or critically important state messages (As in another historic account, where a Prince sent a ring to a Princess asking for her hand in marriage).

I may be getting too much into Godgame mode and not enough into AR mode >_>

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Rockeater on December 23, 2019, 04:11:30 am

Quote

Spirit Bee
Change Venom: (3) Doomblade, UristMcRiley, Rockeater

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Jilladilla on December 23, 2019, 05:55:33 am

The continued lack of including all proposals in the votebox is distressing to me...
Apologies for the question marks, some of them were inherited by Twinwolf's 'list of proposals' that they put on Discord, and I wasn't sure what Stirk wanted their latest proposal to be called.

Quote from: The Complete Votebox

Prompt 1; what set us apart?:
Devil's Swarm (req: "Change Venom")
Etroan Clans 
Etroan Baths

Prompt 2; our Special Resource, and a thing that uses it:
Etronium + boulder-kite-scouts
Spirit Bees + Spirit-beekeeping(?)
Sunshard + Heating
Actnium + Ironbark Armor: (1) Jilladilla
Change Venom(?) + Does of Burden: (3) Doomblade, UristMcRiley, Rockeater
Free AI?/Whispering Water? + Writing System?

As another point for Actnium... Do remember everyone that we are not restricted to just this one resource; we can make more. And last I checked, there were no rules against making Special Resources interact with each other. Through potentially enhancing whatever other resources we make; we can extract more value out of their sure to be lesser supply; at the cost of increasing Actnium costs (remember that we get 2 of our initial special resource at start as a freebie; after start we can assign a resource to 1 of our nodes). Yes, some of you may think it's boring, but I for one believe that it is a strong baseline that will encourage us to spread out and do many varied wondrous things; instead of being one trick ponies who are nearly utterly reliant on a single unique quirk to compete. A baseline where we can go 'you want warbeasts? Here, you can do them. You want a massive supertank? Yup. We can do that too. A Sky Battleship you say? Whip up an anti-grav or other thing to make things fly that isn't just a rewrite of Caelium (I think Etronium's 'less dense than air' shtick is a good enough break, by the way) and we're good.' It's a plead to a diverse base to allow any and all proposals and ideas to have a chance to thrive. A diverse baseline that allows us to place niche things in the niche they belong in; instead of trying to cram them into other roles that something else would fit better.
I do not plan to keep Actnium as our one and only special resource if we go with it.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on December 23, 2019, 04:14:24 pm

Quote from: Jilladilla on December 23, 2019, 05:55:33 am

As another point for Actnium... Do remember everyone that we are not restricted to just this one resource; we can make more. And last I checked, there were no rules against making Special Resources interact with each other. Through potentially enhancing whatever other resources we make; we can extract more value out of their sure to be lesser supply; at the cost of increasing Actnium costs (remember that we get 2 of our initial special resource at start as a freebie; after start we can assign a resource to 1 of our nodes). Yes, some of you may think it's boring, but I for one believe that it is a strong baseline that will encourage us to spread out and do many varied wondrous things; instead of being one trick ponies who are nearly utterly reliant on a single unique quirk to compete. A baseline where we can go 'you want warbeasts? Here, you can do them. You want a massive supertank? Yup. We can do that too. A Sky Battleship you say? Whip up an anti-grav or other thing to make things fly that isn't just a rewrite of Caelium (I think Etronium's 'less dense than air' shtick is a good enough break, by the way) and we're good.' It's a plead to a diverse base to allow any and all proposals and ideas to have a chance to thrive. A diverse baseline that allows us to place niche things in the niche they belong in; instead of trying to cram them into other roles that something else would fit better.
I do not plan to keep Actnium as our one and only special resource if we go with it.

But it *will* be our only resource until we can snag a new one, and the resource to define our entire nation. It doesn’t allow for anything unique on its own and adding in a second or third resource doesn’t change that. You can’t make warbeasts or supertanks or flying battleships with *just* this resource. You could sprinkle it on completely normal mundane gear and get a slightly better version, but it doesn’t seem to be enough to open up anything new on its own even in your new argument. What you are saying sounds like it would be something to add later to boost our main resource rather than acting as our main resource by itself.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Jilladilla on December 23, 2019, 06:04:07 pm

Quote from: Stirk on December 23, 2019, 04:14:24 pm

But it *will* be our only resource until we can snag a new one, and the resource to define our entire nation. It doesn’t allow for anything unique on its own and adding in a second or third resource doesn’t change that. You can’t make warbeasts or supertanks or flying battleships with *just* this resource. You could sprinkle it on completely normal mundane gear and get a slightly better version, but it doesn’t seem to be enough to open up anything new on its own even in your new argument. What you are saying sounds like it would be something to add later to boost our main resource rather than acting as our main resource by itself.

We will be able to snag a new resource as soon as the game proper starts. And I do contest you saying we can't do warbeasts or supertanks with just this resource; sure they may not be as good as they could be with a dedicated resource; but we could do that nonetheless... Sky Battleships I'll give you (I assume your definition is 'basically an actual battleship, but flying'), though we could likely make a pretty potent Zeppelin that could swat any mundane plane out of the sky. And the resource will not necessarily define our entire nation. Inithar came close-ish to that with their Refocyte; but they are more than their resource, if you took the resource away from them they would still be Inithar. (Embral is further detached from their special resource; it does not define them) If all that could be said about our nation is that 'they're the guys with the [INSERT RESOURCE HERE]'; we will have utterly failed lorewise. No matter how cool the resource is or the things we did with that resource were.

Other concerns I have is that you apparently seem to think that it would only give us a minor boost and not get us anything special on its own. I've said this before, and I'll say it again; the power of special resources lies in our creativity in applying it. Even the most fantastical of them could amount to a 'mere +1' if not leveraged properly. There's fun things to be done when we can enhance the properties of things; potentially beyond normal limits, it may be 'mundane' but physics fuckery is still there to be had. Sure, we can enhance gunpowder or bullet itself to get mere '+1 guns'; but what if we instead enhanced the recoil pad's capability to cushion and then proceeded to use a larger bullet, which could then possibly carry a useful payload if big enough? (A combination of those things could potentially get us frighteningly effective Anti-Tank Rifles, note) And your last point; of doing it later to 'boost our main resource'..... Stirk? That would run completely, absolutely, 100% against my true goal with it! As it would then serve to 'boost our one trick further' instead of provide the open doors of possibility it would give as our 'main resource'. (I suppose another way to put it is that I wish to see an interconnected web of special resources that we then leverage to be greater than the sum of their parts; that hasn't been done before in an AR, to the best of my knowledge.)

I will acknowledge that your last point is a technically valid course of action, though... I would just be sad if it came to happen. Wouldn't fault you guys, it would make some tactical sense. But would still be sad.
Sorry for the little rant at you there near the end. It's just you somehow, literally, nearly word-for-word typed out a concern I had.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on December 23, 2019, 07:42:31 pm

Quote

We will be able to snag a new resource as soon as the game proper starts

Sure, but we start with two of the resource we're deciding on now and will have to dedicate nodes in order to build more. By the same token there is no urgent need to choose this over the others if we can just make it later. Using just what you are saying now, it would seem smarter to make something else then add this "booster" design later (so it can actually have something to boost).

Quote

And I do contest you saying we can't do warbeasts or supertanks with just this resource; sure they may not be as good as they could be with a dedicated resource; but we could do that nonetheless...

Again I would ask for examples. What warbeast or supertank could we make with your resource that we could not using mundane materials?

Quote

And the resource will not necessarily define our entire nation

But it is supposed to. Being able to mutate animals however you like during pre-agg days is going to change the way your nation unfolds. Having an unlimited source of heat is going to change how your nation unfolds. If you have a normal nation despite having a near-fantasy resource something went wrong.

I have no idea what any of the things you mention are.

Quote

Other concerns I have is that you apparently seem to think that it would only give us a minor boost and not get us anything special on its own. I've said this before, and I'll say it again; the power of special resources lies in our creativity in applying it. Even the most fantastical of them could amount to a 'mere +1' if not leveraged properly. There's fun things to be done when we can enhance the properties of things; potentially beyond normal limits, it may be 'mundane' but physics fuckery is still there to be had. Sure, we can enhance gunpowder or bullet itself to get mere '+1 guns'; but what if we instead enhanced the recoil pad's capability to cushion and then proceeded to use a larger bullet, which could then possibly carry a useful payload if big enough?

Then we still just have +1 guns that went for caliber instead of faster bullets. By the same token we could add some Bear muscles to our soldiers to let them trot around with massive guns, make less-dense-then-air recoiless rifles, or have the steampunk walker use vehicle sized weapons. It isn't like the limiting factor for how big an infantry weapon can be has ever been recoil, while I'm sure the soldier's shoulders would appreciate the help it wouldn't even prevent muzzle rise to allow for faster rates of fire.

I still don't see how this material could be used for super warbeasts or super tanks.

Quote

And your last point; of doing it later to 'boost our main resource'..... Stirk? That would run completely, absolutely, 100% against my true goal with it! As it would then serve to 'boost our one trick further' instead of provide the open doors of possibility it would give as our 'main resource'.

What happened to "With creativity and a resource we can do anything!"? If a resource really is just a tool to let us have creative ideas that don't have to conform 100% with reality, then it won't matter what resource we pick. It will still be true. If a resource is just a one note trick, then why would this resource be any different than the others?

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on December 23, 2019, 09:17:27 pm

Quote from: Jilladilla on December 23, 2019, 05:55:33 am

The continued lack of including all proposals in the votebox is distressing to me...
Apologies for the question marks, some of them were inherited by Twinwolf's 'list of proposals' that they put on Discord, and I wasn't sure what Stirk wanted their latest proposal to be called.

Quote from: The Complete Votebox

Prompt 1; what set us apart?:
Devil's Swarm (req: "Change Venom")
Etroan Clans 
Etroan Baths

Prompt 2; our Special Resource, and a thing that uses it:
Etronium + boulder-kite-scouts
Spirit Bees + Spirit-beekeeping(?)
Sunshard + Heating
Actnium + Ironbark Armor: (2) Jilladilla, Vostok
Change Venom(?) + Does of Burden: (3) Doomblade, UristMcRiley, Rockeater
Free AI?/Whispering Water? + Writing System?

As another point for Actnium... Do remember everyone that we are not restricted to just this one resource; we can make more. And last I checked, there were no rules against making Special Resources interact with each other. Through potentially enhancing whatever other resources we make; we can extract more value out of their sure to be lesser supply; at the cost of increasing Actnium costs (remember that we get 2 of our initial special resource at start as a freebie; after start we can assign a resource to 1 of our nodes). Yes, some of you may think it's boring, but I for one believe that it is a strong baseline that will encourage us to spread out and do many varied wondrous things; instead of being one trick ponies who are nearly utterly reliant on a single unique quirk to compete. A baseline where we can go 'you want warbeasts? Here, you can do them. You want a massive supertank? Yup. We can do that too. A Sky Battleship you say? Whip up an anti-grav or other thing to make things fly that isn't just a rewrite of Caelium (I think Etronium's 'less dense than air' shtick is a good enough break, by the way) and we're good.' It's a plead to a diverse base to allow any and all proposals and ideas to have a chance to thrive. A diverse baseline that allows us to place niche things in the niche they belong in; instead of trying to cram them into other roles that something else would fit better.
I do not plan to keep Actnium as our one and only special resource if we go with it.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on December 23, 2019, 09:17:45 pm

Salt/meme/funpost.


SALT

For those who lived in the many valleys and forests of the homeland, food was precious. Moreso, one of the first things that catapulted our tribes from mere wanderers was the presence of SALT crystals growing naturally in caves. It was delicious, and eventually, we also learned to use it to preserve food. But that wasn't all it did for us. For some reason, our people grew to be far stronger than the animals we hunted. Rather, as our tribes lived, some came to experiment with the SALT crystals. Feeding meat salted by this SALT to animals we tamed actually increased their overall strength as well. Eating the meat of a bear preserved with SALT eventually gave rise to the strength and vitality of a bear. Likewise, eating a gazelle boosted speed and grace, though they were far harder to hunt.

Later applications showed it had potential as a binder for medicines of the time as well. Though as with SALT, we also needed much water as well. But our strength, speed, and corporation would lead us to becoming more advanced than others simply because we were stronger, better, than the competition.


Taming Communion
One particular aspect of our people was our strength. But we also had understanding of the animals we ate with SALT. It took some time, quite a few generations, but eventually people were born in the tribe that could understand animals to a degree themselves. They used this to form the first bonds, partnerships with wolves. This later extended to members of the bird and cat kingdoms. And with SALT, these animals also grew stronger over time, far beyond what you would expect from them.

Time however, would tell a tale of growth among their descendants, along with our tribe.

Quote from: The Complete Votebox

Prompt 1; what set us apart?:
Devil's Swarm (req: "Change Venom")
Etroan Clans 
Etroan Baths
Etroan Taming Communion (req: "SALT"): TricMagic

Prompt 2; our Special Resource, and a thing that uses it:
Etronium + boulder-kite-scouts
Spirit Bees + Spirit-beekeeping(?)
Sunshard + Heating
Actnium + Ironbark Armor: (2) Jilladilla, Vostok
Change Venom(?) + Does of Burden: (3) Doomblade, UristMcRiley, Rockeater
Free AI?/Whispering Water? + Writing System?
SALT: (1) TricMagic

Because I had the idea of SALT in an AR. It effectively turns what is eaten with it into a type of predation, gaining some of the attributes. Only a bit, but over time, it adds up. Needless to say, it also goes with taming and breeding/mutating our own beasts of war. Once the science actually gets to the point that can be done anyway.

---

For Twin, on SALT.

SALT. It takes the material, and when eaten with it, imbues some of that materials 'Ability'. Eating the meat of a wolf would naturally boost strength and speed to a degree. This doesn't have an immediate effect though, it builds over time. This is effectively improvement now. As the body grows, the effects show.

Granted, for SALT, it is an effect that will be seen over time. It's only as you enter the more modern science age that you could make faster modifications. For the old times, it will simply effect the evolution of the tribe each generation, will improvements occurring on the cellular level. Needless to say, the body will reject any negative changes, while embracing those deemed as positive, such as strength, agility, and coordination and balance. Being able to understand and communicate with animals would also be deemed beneficial. Though so would a more feral instinct in some cases.

Guess the best way to say, is that SALT is like ARs, a roll of the genetic dice. It definitely will end up greatly influencing the Etroan people though, even if any other effects are likely locked until the modern era.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on December 23, 2019, 09:53:17 pm

If we're going with the mutagen, can we have something cooler than War Deer?

Change Venom Companion: Diamond Dogs
With the local fauna being both monstrous and plentiful, we needed our own form of monsters to combat them. The local Etroans who discovered the mutagen put it to use enhancing their hunting dogs, combing them with fish scales, turtle shells, or particularly strong "Monster" pieces to allow for an armored dog hybrid that spread throughout the land. Early Diamond Dogs tend to be wolflike, with greyish armored shells covering their back and scales across their neck and bellies. This armor was more then tough enough to keep the monsters at hold while the humans supported the beast with ranged weapons.

And our as-of-yet used normal design:

Etroan Longbow: A simple design, created out of a single piece of wood. It is a bow as tall as its wielder, giving it significant range and power despite its simplicity. Typically hunters would gather together to send volleys into larger targets, causing the monster to bleed out as the diamond dogs kept the creature busy. It generally favored firepower over speed, with a large pull to get past the powerful hide of its prey.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on December 24, 2019, 11:36:02 am

Quote from: The Complete Votebox

Prompt 1; what set us apart?:
Devil's Swarm (req: "Change Venom")
Etroan Clans 
Etroan Baths

Prompt 2; our Special Resource, and a thing that uses it:
Etronium + boulder-kite-scouts
Spirit Bees + Spirit-beekeeping(?)
Sunshard + Heating
Actnium + Ironbark Armor: (3) Jilladilla, Vostok, Madman
Change Venom(?) + Does of Burden: (3) Doomblade, UristMcRiley, Rockeater
Free AI?/Whispering Water? + Writing System?
SALT + Etroan Taming Communion: (1) TricMagic

Note that I moved your proposals together, Tric, as the resource comes with a second design, i.e. you describe the resource AND a design utilizing said resource.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Twinwolf on December 24, 2019, 12:08:53 pm

Guys you realize nobody is voting on Prompt 1 right

(As in you are supposed to, but nobody has)

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on December 24, 2019, 05:56:10 pm

Quote from: Twinwolf on December 24, 2019, 12:08:53 pm

Guys you realize nobody is voting on Prompt 1 right

(As in you are supposed to, but nobody has)

I did, then Madman decided to change it.

OK. We are voting for a Special Resource, which must have Lore. And a Design which defined us. The special resource and actual design can be different.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on December 24, 2019, 05:59:10 pm

Quote from: TricMagic on December 24, 2019, 05:56:10 pm

Quote from: Twinwolf on December 24, 2019, 12:08:53 pm

Guys you realize nobody is voting on Prompt 1 right

(As in you are supposed to, but nobody has)

I did, then Madman decided to change it.

OK. We are voting for a Special Resource, which must have Lore. And a Design which defined us. The special resource and actual design can be different.

We get two designs, one using the resource and one that doesn't need to use the resource.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Twinwolf on December 24, 2019, 06:11:51 pm

Madman (and Stirk) has it right. When you make a resource you design both the resource and something using it in the same action, so that's one proposal.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Jilladilla on December 24, 2019, 06:19:35 pm

Quote from: Stirk on December 24, 2019, 05:59:10 pm

Quote from: TricMagic on December 24, 2019, 05:56:10 pm

Quote from: Twinwolf on December 24, 2019, 12:08:53 pm

Guys you realize nobody is voting on Prompt 1 right

(As in you are supposed to, but nobody has)

I did, then Madman decided to change it.

OK. We are voting for a Special Resource, which must have Lore. And a Design which defined us. The special resource and actual design can be different.

We get two designs, one using the resource and one that doesn't need to use the resource.

POST-WRITE-PRE-POST-EDIT: Twin beat me to the punch. Now onto your regularly scheduled, now somewhat redundant, post.

To Stirk: Technically speaking, both designs can use the resource.

To TricMagic: As Stirk said; the second prompt is a Special Resource and a design that uses it. As you did not have a built-in design in SALT (beyond the resource itself); the design you posted with it was bundled with SALT under the 2nd prompt.

But yeah; we've had some mono-focus issues; everyone mayhaps consider tossing mundane designs around? Remember that we don't have to min-max this, odds are very high none of the stuff we make now will end up in our starting armory as is. (At the very least; I'd be very concerned if a WW1 army used vintage stone-age tech as the original inventors did...)

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on December 24, 2019, 06:25:10 pm

I had the longbow design two posts ago. And the OP says we can spend a revision to make our stone age weapons catch up to modern time, so we will probably use them :V

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: The Ensorceler on December 25, 2019, 04:14:44 am

Set-Apart Design: Potsherd Razorspear
An early derivative of Etroan skill with ceramic, the Potsherd Razorspear is, of course, a spear tipped in near-glassy clay, always breaking sharp. Razorspears tips are single-use, but plunge deep through hide and shatter into slivers, creating an impossible to staunch wound guaranteed to weaken its victim if not outright fell it. With the introduction of the Razorspear, Etroan hunters were able to fend off the mightiest of beasts and carve out a niche in proto-Etroa.

The use of such weapons in human disputes was largely shunned, as the difficulty of treatment rendered any square hit greivous, from limb destruction to death. Only against those broadly condemned to death by society were Potsherd Razorspears ever used, and the mere creation of a Potsherd knife would inspire revulsion among pre-Etroans. Etroans would maintain this aversion to casual killing into the modern era, dueling and even street brawling with skill and finesse rather than the most effective weapons possible.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Rockeater on December 26, 2019, 03:47:58 am

Quote from: The Complete Votebox

Prompt 1; what set us apart?:
Devil's Swarm (req: "Change Venom")
Etroan Clans 
Etroan Baths: (1) Rockeater
Potsherd Razorspear

Prompt 2; our Special Resource, and a thing that uses it:
Etronium + boulder-kite-scouts
Spirit Bees + Spirit-beekeeping(?)
Sunshard + Heating
Actnium + Ironbark Armor: (3) Jilladilla, Vostok, Madman
Change Venom(?) + Does of Burden: (3) Doomblade, UristMcRiley, Rockeater
Free AI?/Whispering Water? + Writing System?
SALT + Etroan Taming Communion: (1) TricMagic

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on December 26, 2019, 05:12:04 pm

Quote from: Rockeater on December 26, 2019, 03:47:58 am

Quote from: The Complete Votebox

Prompt 1; what set us apart?:
Devil's Swarm (req: "Change Venom")
Etroan Clans 
Etroan Baths: (1) Rockeater
Potsherd Razorspear
Etorian Longbow: (1) Stirk

Prompt 2; our Special Resource, and a thing that uses it:
Etronium + boulder-kite-scouts
Spirit Bees + Spirit-beekeeping(?)
Sunshard + Heating
Actnium + Ironbark Armor: (3) Jilladilla, Vostok, Madman
Change Venom(?) + Does of Burden: (3) Doomblade, UristMcRiley, Rockeater
Free AI?/Whispering Water? + Writing System?
SALT + Etroan Taming Communion: (1) TricMagic
Change Venom(!) + Diamond Dogs: (1) Stirk

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Doomblade187 on December 26, 2019, 06:53:40 pm

The Change Venom (Official Update)

Long ago in our history, we first encountered roaming packs of enhanced, vicious animals - each one shaped in a manner uniquely mirroring their environment and abilities. They were also very aggressive, as we soon learned that they were being molded by parasites that injected them with venom and ensured they stayed well fed. Intrigued by what they found, the settlers soon captured some of the beetles and extracted the venom from them. What we found was amazing.

The Change Venom can warp a living being (animal or plant) into a form based on any ingredients mixed in and the form of the animal, emphasizing the being's natural form and abilities. It does this by modifying the internal ((genetic)) instructions of the entity modified, consuming energy reserves and nutrients to morph.

Domain: Mutation

Paired Design:

Change Venom Companion: Diamond Dogs
With the local fauna being both monstrous and plentiful, we needed our own form of monsters to combat them. The local Etroans who discovered the mutagen put it to use enhancing their hunting dogs, combing them with fish scales, turtle shells, or particularly hard "Monster" pieces to allow for an armored dog hybrid that spread throughout the land. Early Diamond Dogs tend to be wolflike, with greyish armored shells covering their back and scales across their neck and bellies. This armor was more then tough enough to keep the monsters at hold while the humans supported the beast with ranged weapons.

Quote from: The Complete Votebox

Prompt 1; what set us apart?:
Devil's Swarm (req: "Change Venom")
Etroan Clans 
Etroan Baths: (1) Rockeater
Potsherd Razorspear
Etorian Longbow: (1) Stirk

Prompt 2; our Special Resource, and a thing that uses it:
Etronium + boulder-kite-scouts
Spirit Bees + Spirit-beekeeping(?)
Sunshard + Heating
Actnium + Ironbark Armor: (3) Jilladilla, Vostok, Madman
Change Venom(?) + Does of Burden: (2) UristMcRiley, Rockeater
Free AI?/Whispering Water? + Writing System?
SALT + Etroan Taming Communion: (1) TricMagic
Change Venom(Official Update) + Diamond Dogs: (2) Stirk, Doomblade

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Rockeater on December 27, 2019, 03:05:20 am

Quote from: The Complete Votebox

Prompt 1; what set us apart?:
Devil's Swarm (req: "Change Venom")
Etroan Clans 
Etroan Baths: (1) Rockeater
Potsherd Razorspear
Etorian Longbow: (1) Stirk

Prompt 2; our Special Resource, and a thing that uses it:
Etronium + boulder-kite-scouts
Spirit Bees + Spirit-beekeeping(?)
Sunshard + Heating
Actnium + Ironbark Armor: (3) Jilladilla, Vostok, Madman
Change Venom(?) + Does of Burden: (1) UristMcRiley
Free AI?/Whispering Water? + Writing System?
SALT + Etroan Taming Communion: (1) TricMagic
Change Venom(Official Update) + Diamond Dogs: (3) Stirk, Doomblade, Rockeater

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on December 27, 2019, 09:50:02 am

Taming the Wild
Within the valleys and forests our tribes made their home in, Etroan People made first use of animals, learning to communicate and work with them. Wolves were great allies alongside us, and with the finding of Change Venom, they grew stronger still.

We also learned to communicate with birds for scouting, eventually taming them as well. And with our abilities, we tamed nature, becoming a pseudo-tribe of hunter-farmers, able to subsist off of animals and plants extremely easily with the help of birds and wolves.

Quote from: The Complete Votebox

Prompt 1; what set us apart?:
Devil's Swarm (req: "Change Venom")
Etroan Clans 
Etroan Baths: (1) Rockeater
Potsherd Razorspear
Etorian Longbow: (1) Stirk
Taming the Wild: (1) TricMagic

Prompt 2; our Special Resource, and a thing that uses it:
Etronium + boulder-kite-scouts
Spirit Bees + Spirit-beekeeping(?)
Sunshard + Heating
Actnium + Ironbark Armor: (3) Jilladilla, Vostok, Madman
Change Venom(?) + Does of Burden: (1) UristMcRiley
Free AI?/Whispering Water? + Writing System?
SALT + Etroan Taming Communion: ()
Change Venom(Official Update) + Diamond Dogs: (4) Stirk, Doomblade, Rockeater, TricMagic

Birds are our scouts, since telling them apart from others is a bit impossible for most. This also can tie into mutation down the line.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: The Ensorceler on December 27, 2019, 09:25:18 pm

Special Resource: Sunseeds Redux
A form of opal found throughout the land of Etroa, Sunseeds are extraordinarily volatile, flooding any water they come in contact with with an energy resembling their own fiery iridescence. Said water, of course, becomes very very hot from all this energy. Even trace sweat on a hand can become scalding hot, so Sunseeds are best handled with respect and care. Pre-Etroans gathered their first Sunseeds from exposed cliffsides, and regarded them as the stuff of gods, believing them to contain the energies of the First Creation.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on December 27, 2019, 10:02:53 pm

Quote

Tamin Orodruin
Etroa, as has long been known, is in the shape of a very large bowl. Travel towards the capital and you travel steadily, though very gently, downwards. We live, of course, at the center of the world, and in the very center of our territory is the true center of the world. Down one travels, to the place at the center of the world, to the very forge of Aule, where rock flows like water in streams from a bubbling caldera and the air is often poisonous.

Here, we first discovered that certain rocks could melt into materials that didn't behave like rock, and began our long history of using metal tools. Long before others knew how, we were using tools that did not shatter, tools that could be used even against hardwood, tools that could be made into weapons that would last for more than a few strokes before losing their edge and shattering.

Our culture rose around the great Forge, and we rose with the growth of a metal industry focused around the heat of the mountain of fire and the advantage of metal tools.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Jilladilla on December 28, 2019, 09:13:22 am

Right. Had an idea for a design to go with Sunseeds. Anyone have vague ideas using it? I think I'm in a writing mood and might be able to write them up.

Sunshard Spear
As the Ancient Etroan's know; Sunseeds have an exceptionally volatile reaction when in contact with water. A reaction that has had many tales and legends made about it. As one such legend goes, one tribal leader with a desire for wealth and the other finer things of life (such as they were back then) had commissioned a spear; tipped with a pointed Sunseed gem. Then one day, this chieftain was attacked and mauled by a bear, or some other large vicious animal (the tales aren't clear and vary on this); his son, in pure panic filled adrenaline, took the Spear hafted with a Shard of a Sun; a tool initially meant entirely for decoration, and stabbed the beast with it. Legends say the fury of the Sun then smote the beast where it stood; but modern scientists know that it 'merely' boiled the beast from the inside.

Regardless of the tales truthfulness; the Ancient Etroan's made and wielded these 'Sunshard Spears'; intended primarily for emergencies against the more powerful fauna that were native to the lands instead of generic hunting. Our first weapon intended solely for conflict, some say.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: The Ensorceler on December 28, 2019, 01:51:37 pm

Quote from: The Complete Votebox

Prompt 1; what set us apart?:
Devil's Swarm (req: "Change Venom")
Etroan Clans 
Etroan Baths: (1) Rockeater
Potsherd Razorspear
Etorian Longbow: (1) Stirk
Taming the Wild: (1) TricMagic

Prompt 2; our Special Resource, and a thing that uses it:
Etronium + boulder-kite-scouts
Spirit Bees + Spirit-beekeeping(?)
Sunshard + Heating
Actnium + Ironbark Armor: (3) Jilladilla, Vostok, Madman
Change Venom(?) + Does of Burden: (1) UristMcRiley
Free AI?/Whispering Water? + Writing System?
SALT + Etroan Taming Communion: ()
Change Venom(Official Update) + Diamond Dogs: (4) Stirk, Doomblade, Rockeater, TricMagic
Sunseeds Redux: (1) The Ensorceler
   Sunshard Spears (1) The Ensorceler

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on December 28, 2019, 01:57:38 pm

Quote from: The Complete Votebox

Prompt 1; what set us apart?:
Devil's Swarm (req: "Change Venom")
Etroan Clans 
Etroan Baths: (1) Rockeater
Potsherd Razorspear
Etorian Longbow: (1) Stirk
Taming the Wild: (1) TricMagic
Tamin Orodruin: (1) Madman

Prompt 2; our Special Resource, and a thing that uses it:
Etronium + boulder-kite-scouts
Spirit Bees + Spirit-beekeeping(?)
Sunshard + Heating
Actnium + Ironbark Armor: (2) Jilladilla, Vostok
Change Venom(?) + Does of Burden: (1) UristMcRiley
Free AI?/Whispering Water? + Writing System?
SALT + Etroan Taming Communion: ()
Change Venom(Official Update) + Diamond Dogs: (4) Stirk, Doomblade, Rockeater, TricMagic
Sunseeds Redux + Sunshard Spears: (2) The Ensorceler, Madman

I just made the Sunseeds thing follow the pattern of the other ones. If we need to alter all of them to fit the more versatile format later we can.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Jilladilla on December 28, 2019, 02:08:55 pm

I said I would vote within the hour, and so I will. Bit sad to see the dream fade; but let's see where this path takes us!

Quote from: The Complete Votebox

Prompt 1; what set us apart?:
Devil's Swarm (req: "Change Venom")
Etroan Clans 
Etroan Baths: (1) Rockeater
Potsherd Razorspear
Etorian Longbow: (1) Stirk
Taming the Wild: (1) TricMagic
Tamin Orodruin: (2) Madman, Jilladilla

Prompt 2; our Special Resource, and a thing that uses it:
Etronium + boulder-kite-scouts
Spirit Bees + Spirit-beekeeping(?)
Sunshard + Heating
Actnium + Ironbark Armor: (1) Vostok
Change Venom(?) + Does of Burden: (1) UristMcRiley
Free AI?/Whispering Water? + Writing System?
SALT + Etroan Taming Communion: ()
Change Venom(Official Update) + Diamond Dogs: (4) Stirk, Doomblade, Rockeater, TricMagic
Sunseeds Redux + Sunshard Spears: (3) The Ensorceler, Madman, Jilladilla

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Shadowclaw777 on December 28, 2019, 03:10:56 pm

Quote from: The Complete Votebox

Prompt 1; what set us apart?:
Devil's Swarm (req: "Change Venom")
Etroan Clans 
Etroan Baths: (1) Rockeater
Potsherd Razorspear
Etorian Longbow: (1) Stirk
Taming the Wild: (1) TricMagic
Tamin Orodruin: (3) Madman, Jilladilla, SC777

Prompt 2; our Special Resource, and a thing that uses it:
Etronium + boulder-kite-scouts
Spirit Bees + Spirit-beekeeping(?)
Sunshard + Heating
Actnium + Ironbark Armor: (1) Vostok
Change Venom(?) + Does of Burden: (1) UristMcRiley
Free AI?/Whispering Water? + Writing System?
SALT + Etroan Taming Communion: ()
Change Venom(Official Update) + Diamond Dogs: (4) Stirk, Doomblade, Rockeater, TricMagic
Sunseeds Redux + Sunshard Spears: (4) The Ensorceler, Madman, Jilladilla, SC777

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on December 28, 2019, 03:44:58 pm

Quote from: Shadowclaw777 on December 28, 2019, 03:10:56 pm

Quote from: The Complete Votebox

Prompt 1; what set us apart?:
Devil's Swarm (req: "Change Venom")
Etroan Clans 
Etroan Baths: (1) Rockeater
Potsherd Razorspear
Etorian Longbow: (1) Stirk
Taming the Wild: (1) TricMagic
Tamin Orodruin: (4) Madman, Jilladilla, SC777, Vostok

Prompt 2; our Special Resource, and a thing that uses it:
Etronium + boulder-kite-scouts
Spirit Bees + Spirit-beekeeping(?)
Sunshard + Heating
Actnium + Ironbark Armor: ()
Change Venom(?) + Does of Burden: (1) UristMcRiley
Free AI?/Whispering Water? + Writing System?
SALT + Etroan Taming Communion: ()
Change Venom(Official Update) + Diamond Dogs: (4) Stirk, Doomblade, Rockeater, TricMagic
Sunseeds Redux + Sunshard Spears: (5) The Ensorceler, Madman, Jilladilla, SC777, Vostok

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on December 28, 2019, 05:15:24 pm

Quote from: Vostok on December 28, 2019, 03:44:58 pm

Quote from: Shadowclaw777 on December 28, 2019, 03:10:56 pm

Quote from: The Complete Votebox

Prompt 1; what set us apart?:
Devil's Swarm (req: "Change Venom")
Etroan Clans 
Etroan Baths: (1) Rockeater
Potsherd Razorspear
Etorian Longbow: (1) Stirk
Taming the Wild: ()
Tamin Orodruin: (5) Madman, Jilladilla, SC777, Vostok, TricMagic

Prompt 2; our Special Resource, and a thing that uses it:
Etronium + boulder-kite-scouts
Spirit Bees + Spirit-beekeeping(?)
Sunshard + Heating
Actnium + Ironbark Armor: ()
Change Venom(?) + Does of Burden: (1) UristMcRiley
Free AI?/Whispering Water? + Writing System?
SALT + Etroan Taming Communion: ()
Change Venom(Official Update) + Diamond Dogs: (4) Stirk, Doomblade, Rockeater,
Sunseeds Redux + Sunshard Spears: (6) The Ensorceler, Madman, Jilladilla, SC777, Vostok, TricMagic

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Twinwolf on December 30, 2019, 04:40:02 pm

Quote

Tamin Orodruin
Etroa, as has long been known, is in the shape of a very large bowl. Travel towards the capital and you travel steadily, though very gently, downwards. We live, of course, at the center of the world, and in the very center of our territory is the true center of the world. Down one travels, to the place at the center of the world, to the very forge of Aule, where rock flows like water in streams from a bubbling caldera and the air is often poisonous.

Here, we first discovered that certain rocks could melt into materials that didn't behave like rock, and began our long history of using metal tools. Long before others knew how, we were using tools that did not shatter, tools that could be used even against hardwood, tools that could be made into weapons that would last for more than a few strokes before losing their edge and shattering.

Our culture rose around the great Forge, and we rose with the growth of a metal industry focused around the heat of the mountain of fire and the advantage of metal tools

----
Difficulty: Hard
Rolls: 5 + 6 - 1 = 10 (Superior)

The core of Etroa is Tamin Orodruin, a dormant volcanic caldera of massive proportions. Modern scientists believe that it may well have been the source of a significant portion of the land on which Etroa and it’s neighbors sit. For the most part, Etroa is a temperate land of forests and springs. But at the center of the caldera are streams of lava and toxic gas, lethal to any foolish enough to venture lower.

When the gods created the world, the ancient Etroan shamans said, they began at Tamin Orodruin. The fires of creation flowed underground, and from a good vantage on a clear day, one could see through the poisonous mist to the Aule Forge, still molten hot from the day that the gods completed their greatest work, believing the the heat and gas were the gods’ way of protecting their forge. The disparate Etroan tribes were united in their reverence of this place.

It is unclear how the first smiths of Etroa discovered the ways of metal production, but it is well known that they did so quite early compared to the rest of the world. Some claim the gods gave the First Smith a divine inspiration, from which he started the craft. Others posit it was a cascade of accidents regarding a part of the caldera lacking the poison gas but having tremendous heat from below, and the shiny parts of rocks. Whatever the case, one of the oldest communal buildings in Etroa is the Great Forge, built over such a vent from below and the oldest dedicated metalworking facility in the world.

The Etroans were the first among men to shape metal and glass, and over the generations, the forge has become a major part of their culture. One of the most respected men in the average village was the blacksmith, who passed his knowledge to his apprentices. At the time, the advantage of bronze weaponry assisted the clans who achieved it in their conquest of the others. It’s thought that the quick advent of metal tools and weaponry accelerated Etroan growth, helping it’s later power in the region.

To this day, Etroan metalcraft is world renowned for the care and quality that goes into it, beginning from the tradition of the Great Forge and Tamin Orodruin.

Quote

Special Resource: Sunseeds Redux
A form of opal found throughout the land of Etroa, Sunseeds are extraordinarily volatile, flooding any water they come in contact with with an energy resembling their own fiery iridescence. Said water, of course, becomes very very hot from all this energy. Even trace sweat on a hand can become scalding hot, so Sunseeds are best handled with respect and care. Pre-Etroans gathered their first Sunseeds from exposed cliffsides, and regarded them as the stuff of gods, believing them to contain the energies of the First Creation.

Quote

Sunshard Spears
As the Ancient Etroan's know; Sunseeds have an exceptionally volatile reaction when in contact with water. A reaction that has had many tales and legends made about it. As one such legend goes, one tribal leader with a desire for wealth and the other finer things of life (such as they were back then) had commissioned a spear; tipped with a pointed Sunseed gem. Then one day, this chieftain was attacked and mauled by a bear, or some other large vicious animal (the tales aren't clear and vary on this); his son, in pure panic filled adrenaline, took the Spear hafted with a Shard of a Sun; a tool initially meant entirely for decoration, and stabbed the beast with it. Legends say the fury of the Sun then smote the beast where it stood; but modern scientists know that it 'merely' boiled the beast from the inside.

Regardless of the tales truthfulness; the Ancient Etroan's made and wielded these 'Sunshard Spears'; intended primarily for emergencies against the more powerful fauna that were native to the lands instead of generic hunting. Our first weapon intended solely for conflict, some say.

----
Difficulty: Normal
Roll: 6 + 2 + 0 = 8 (Average)

The “sunseeds” or “sunshards” of Etroa were for a long time mistaken for iridescent opals. Or perhaps, for Etroans, iridescent opals were mistaken for sunseeds. The odd rock, which has an orange-tinted iridescence, is found glittering in caves of the Tamin Oroduin Caldera. They display an extremely interesting property: When a sunshard makes contact with water, it heats up dramatically, and the water glows bright. To many Etroan shamans they were the crystalized blood of one of the gods, or perhaps tears, depending on precise doctrine, a belief still carried by some.

The property of heating was first used in the homes of Etroans, heating their homes in the winters and helping in the cooking. Then, as with all things, people thought of how to use it for combat. With their metalcraft, Etroans already had competent weaponry. Adding on sunseeds made them even more effective.

A sharpened sunseed attached to a spear was meant to be a display of wealth at first, scholars are fairly sure. After all, the ancient Etroans didn’t know that blood was in large parts made of water. But there is evidence that they learned very quickly. The sunshard spears went from weapons of ceremony to weapons of war, and many early Etroans died at the end of a burning hot spear. Two Etroan tribes, the one that built the Great Forge and the one that created the sunshard spears, merged together and would go on to conquer the other tribes in the region.

Sunseeds are a special resource with the sphere of Heat.

----

Some accomplishments were more or less grand and wide reaching than others. It is now the Revision phase, and you will have two revisions this turn to do with as you please. For the preliminary phases, you can either improve existing designs, bring them to the current age, or make less impactful new things.

Spoiler: Prelimary Proposals (click to show/hide)

Designs
Tamin Orodruin: The Tamin Orodruin caldera, while it’s status as the center of the world is debated, is the cradle of metalworking - it’s resources and the easy access to heat helped Etroans develop the trade early, and they have improved on it in the time since.

Sunshard Spears: Bronze spears tipped with sharpened sunseeds, a weapon combining two unique factors of Etroa. It causes heavy burns where it pierces - and while it cauterizes the wounds such that bleeding out isn’t a worry, the pain can often be incapacitating all the same.

Revisions

Resources and Interactions
Sunseeds: Iridescent stones resembling opals, with fantastical properties focused around heat. When making contact with water, it rapidly heats up. Not much is known about it, but it surely has potential. This resource’s sphere is Heat.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on December 30, 2019, 05:03:56 pm

Houses of Light

With time and power comes peace. And to fuel that peace, some among early Etroan turned their gaze toward securing a food source. Rather than take up the act of hunting, they used sunshards to mold clay into houses, and dug up trees to become supports. From there, they built huge houses. And by creating steps, they poured water into glass bowls with a shard of sunsseed within. These shards produced light and heat, while increasing the humidity of the enclosed houses. And these lights allowed crops to grow no matter the season or weather. So long as the glass-earth pots were kept full and the Sunseeds suspended within, plants grew. Fruit trees, grains full of seeds, vegetable crops and herbs of plenty, all could be grown year round.

These places came to be known as Houses of Light, filled with heat and vapor, brimming with prismatic light. And with the Hunters and Blacksmiths, the Etroan People were kept full. And this gave rise to a powerful nation who could not only absorb tribes into themselves, but keep them fed and content as well, creating a near endless cycle of industry in a time where most were merely hunter-gathers.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on December 30, 2019, 05:31:07 pm

Etroan Water Purifier: With advent of a near infinite source of boiling water, the ancient Etroans utilized this ability in a multitude of ways aside from keeping their houses warm. In addition to the many, many recipes for "Boiled Sheep", they have come up with an apparatus allowing stagnate or salt water into drinkable purified water. A vase, tub, or other water holding receptacle is placed under a series of leaves (later cloth) placed strategically to gather the steam emitting from the tub after the addition of a sunstone. The collected purified product is then led into a second tub which may be used for whatever purpose. Historians say this was likely discovered by a particularly clever blacksmith while quenching his metals. Aside from its main use, it is also used to this day to collect salt from the ocean in a desperate attempt to add some flavor to all the boiled food.

Etroan Longboats: With the advent of a portable source of purified water, the naval reach of Etroan became greater than any other nation at the time. Without the need to find a suitable stopping point for fresh water ships where only limited by their supply of food and the moral of the men aboard. To fix the first issue, Etroan longboats where created. Essentially a long, flat version of a canoe with a primitive cargo hold below the main deck allowing supplies and cargo to be carried over ocean conditions. It was long enough to fit around 8 oarsmen, with a clinker hull made from our abundant forest land. They would often have figure heads as totems to assist with the moral part, either Gods, spirits, dragons, or just pretty women. With their superior naval reach, they where capable of trading metal tools and salt to friendly lands while invading less friendly lands, eventually leading to the expansion of the Etroan Empire.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on December 30, 2019, 06:14:30 pm

Quote from: Economic Powerhouse Votebox

Houses of Light: (1) TricMagic
Etroan Water Purifier: (1) TricMagic
Etroan Longboats: ()

Divine Gift(Steam Core)

The Divine Gift was the creation of an Etroan artisan, who merged obsidian with the Sunseed, and wrapped it in various metals and glass to create a prismatic lantern.

The result however, turned out to be something that produced a lot of steam simply by standing in the open. The vents left in the design actually worked with the whole assembly to not produce light from within, but to draw water into the crystal and become steam. The resulting product shortly blew up into a bunch of fragments.

Once recovered though, the artisan tried again, and created the first known Steam Core. It was extremely crude, but humidity in the air was drawn into some of the vents, and steam was produced out of the others. And placed in water, with a wood covering meant to divert the steam to another bowl, water could be purified into something drinkable, no matter how salty. This led to Etroans as a people being rather healthy as a whole, since they used this water for cooking and drinking.

Apprentices eventually made the production of a Steam Core an offering to the gods to showcase their mastery at the end of their apprenticeship.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on December 30, 2019, 07:26:36 pm

Quote from: Stirk Rulz

Houses of Light: (1) TricMagic
Etroan Water Purifier: (2) TricMagic, Stirk
Etroan Longboats: (1) Stirk

Apparently Askia is actually actually waiting on us. Lets move foreword already!

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Doomblade187 on December 30, 2019, 07:35:35 pm

Etroan Canals (Design)

Canals were one of the oldest ways to move materials. Etroa, with their sunseeds and their tradition of metalworking, were naturals.

One of the biggest issues with canals is elevation change. Water doesn't flow uphill. By building a series of locks, made out of metal and operated by steam-operated pumps, these canals could move large amounts of material over long distances.

Steam Cranks

An early invention using the sun-seeds, the steam crank was fashioned out of a simple metal wheel mounted to an axle, and placed above a water bath and a sun-seed, seperated by a plate with a small hole in it.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on December 30, 2019, 07:38:59 pm

The Lunte

With a forge came tools, and the obsidian made for great blades. And from those came the first boats.

The Lunte were rivercraft large enough to be called boats. By using Sunseeds buried in hardened clay with the ends sticking out, a rudimentary propulsion system was created. Four such chambers were placed at the back of the boat, which turned water touching it boiling into bubbles, pushing the water out of the holes they were placed in. By creating smaller holes to let the water into these areas from the sides, forward movement was achieved. And these holes could be easily covered when not in use.

It was crude, but sufficient. The ships of the time were long and flat, cutting through the river slowly but steadily, allowing travel upstream. And they carried men and goods efficiently, allowing them to spread their territory quickly along the riverbanks.

---

The back is effectively carved out in a pipe. Made out of wood since it's the boat.. The smaller side pips have the water enter, while the boiled water escapes through the larger pipe since there is less resistance. As a result, the side pipes draw more water in, which gets boiled as it passes through, and it repeats so long as those side pipes are open. Once they are closed, there is no longer any flow.

May be needing anchors anyway...

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on December 30, 2019, 08:19:23 pm

Apparently boats are vetoed. So unimportant things time!

Etroan Fashion: Perhaps an overlooked aspect of getting metal early, the Etroans have loved covering themselves with shiny bits to the awe of their less metallicly advanced neighbors. Even as the others advanced, the early Etroans sought to keep the flames of fashion alive. Well off Etroans were expected to have impressive clothing and jewelry, while even the poor could expect to have impressive bronze wedding bands and a few pieces of more complex jewelry passed down through families. Noble neighbors often sought to purchase or mimic the style of Etroans, making it the "fashion capital of the region". This has occasionally led to rapid changes in style, so that foreign leaders would need to purchase a new and expensive outfit to avoid looking out-of-season. For practical effects it means Etroans are skilled with aesthetics, fabric, furs, and generally making pretty things.

Entirely so our eventual mechs have an excuse to be binged out, and our steam punk populace may be the most posh of all.

Quote from: noa botes

Houses of Light: (1) TricMagic
Etroan Water Purifier: (2) TricMagic, Stirk
Etroan Fasion: (1) Stirk

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on December 30, 2019, 08:56:43 pm

Etroan Farming & Clay Walls

Etroans were probably the first to begin farming, as tools could be made. Hoes to plow the fields, seeds from local edible plants. Good soil and abundant water.

Pehaps most important other than the hoe was the watering can. Both it and the hoe were made out of wood handles and copper, and they were very useful for their time. Though who first came up with the idea of planting their own crops has been lost to the ages. It is agreed however that the choice to make use of clay bricks baked through Sunseeds to enclose the farming areas with a wall was ingenious for preventing animals from ruining the harvests however. And that same tech gave rise to proper towns at the time.

Quote from: noa botes

Houses of Light: ()
Etroan Water Purifier: (2) TricMagic, Stirk
Etroan Fasion: (1) Stirk
Etroan Farming: (1) TricMagic

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on December 30, 2019, 10:20:24 pm

Quote

Macilmire, the Etroan Craft Swords
Etroan tribes, before uniting, were generally good at trading with one another. These trade connections strengthened the early tribes and bound them together, gradually merging their beliefs and cultures into the modern Etroa we know today. One tradition that was spread, quite rapidly, throughout the Etroan tribes was the practice of the "Craft Sword", the production of an extremely high-quality weapon to signify the end of an apprenticeship, or the acceptance of position of "master smith" and adoption of an apprentice. These swords are of a variety of types, mostly leaf-shaped and made of bronze. They are exceptionally well-made, decorated with all sorts of gems and inlays and, most importantly, Sunseeds. While for most peoples getting stabbed was bad, for Etroa's enemies getting stabbed could sometimes lead to small steam explosions in the stabbed area, a gruesome though mercifully quick way to die.

Quote

Pilin Tilmamire, the Gemtipped Arrows
Early Etroa's minds were often turned to war. The rich farmlands and plentiful animals of the great bowl were desired by many peoples, and the early Etroans had to fight for their rightful territory. It was discovered very early on that Sunseeds did terrible things if they ended up inside a person, and since our many enemies wished terrible things to happen to us, we were willing to help the terrible-things-happening process along a little bit...by firing arrows tipped with broken Sunseeds at our enemies. Embedded in arms and legs, guts and heads, these arrows would cause gruesome and lethal wounds.

Faced with the possibility of being literally exploded by a hail of shining arrows, most enemies would rather leave Etroa to their territory and find farmland elsewhere.

Quote from: Votebox

Houses of Light: ()
Etroan Water Purifier: (3) TricMagic, Stirk, Madman
Etroan Fasion: (1) Stirk
Etroan Farming: (1) TricMagic
Craft Swords: (1) Madman
Gemtipped Arrows: (0)

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Jilladilla on December 30, 2019, 11:23:01 pm

Quote from: Votebox

Houses of Light: ()
Etroan Water Purifier: (4) TricMagic, Stirk, Madman, Jilladilla
Etroan Fasion: (1) Stirk
Etroan Farming: (1) TricMagic
Craft Swords: (2) Madman, Jilladilla
Gemtipped Arrows: (0)

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: The Ensorceler on December 31, 2019, 12:14:16 am

Quote from: Votebox

Houses of Light: ()
Etroan Water Purifier: (5) TricMagic, Stirk, Madman, Jilladilla, The Ensorceler
Etroan Fasion: (1) Stirk
Etroan Farming: (1) TricMagic
Craft Swords: (3) Madman, Jilladilla, The Ensorceler
Gemtipped Arrows: (0)

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Rockeater on December 31, 2019, 05:56:44 am

Quote from: Votebox

Houses of Light: ()
Etroan Water Purifier: (6) TricMagic, Stirk, Madman, Jilladilla, The Ensorceler
Etroan Fasion: (2) Stirk, Rockeater
Etroan Farming: (1) TricMagic
Craft Swords: (3) Madman, Jilladilla, The Ensorceler
Gemtipped Arrows: (0)

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on December 31, 2019, 07:49:15 am

Sun Jewel Blade

One creation during ancient times was the Sun Jewel. Made by mixing crushed Sunseeds into lava, and casting it, the result was a black orb that shined like the sun in the light.

By messing with the amount though, at around 60% Sunseed, and 40% Obsidian. The result was something that almost seemed to breath. As it sat, steam would emit from it's surface. By taking this combination and casting it as a blade around a pre-made obsidian handle, a sword was created. Once polished and chipped, it could be used to cut down both trees and people with ease. As the blade entered a body of water, an eruption of steam would occur.

Latter times show this to be the Sunseeds effecting the liquid in the target, instantly turning it to a gaseous state. In this manner, striking into a tree would create an eruption along the line of the blade as it met the liquid stored within. Moreover, the blade itself was constantly warm and safe to touch normally. It was only in direct contact with liquid that steam erupted around it.

A modern scientific analysis shows that these Sun Jewels are created from the ground Sunseed acting as a type of crystal seed, with the lava adhering to it and taking on it's properties as it cools. Hence the observation of things made of it seeming to breathe. It's effects on water are very specific, turning a liquid state to a gaseous state. Strangely, it has no affect on frozen materials, unlike a pure Sunseed. The resulting Sun Jewel material showcases material strength like that of crystals like sapphires and emeralds(7.5-9 on the Mohs Scale depending on quality, with 7.5-8 being average), and can be said to move from being mineral-like to an actual mineral composition.

Quote from: Votebox

Houses of Light: ()
Etroan Water Purifier: (6) TricMagic, Stirk, Madman, Jilladilla, The Ensorceler
Etroan Fasion: (2) Stirk, Rockeater
Etroan Farming: ()
Craft Swords: (4) Madman, Jilladilla, The Ensorceler, TricMagic
Gemtipped Arrows: (0)
Sun Jewel Blade: ()

---

This item will help for steam engines later on, since it turns water to steam on it's own. Granted, it is the same as the water purifier tech, but in a different direction since it's a weapon. It's not like having multiple techs in the area will hurt though, and obsidian is still used today.

Though, I am fine with the current votes I suppose..

---

Next turn Design.

The Discovery of Moonseeds, and the creation of a Steam Paddleboat

Found on the shores of Tamin Orodruin were black stones. We went to create obsidian arrows out of them, only to discover the rock covered something else, a gem. But unlike other gems, frost immediately begin to cover it's surface on being exposed to air.

From breaking them, we found that they were the same Sunseeds we knew. But rather than heat, it drew heat into itself to fill it, making the surroundings colder.

These stones were used to keep ourselves cool for many years, but eventually, they became Sunseeds, shining as Sunseeds do. From this, it came to be known that Moonseeds, found encased by obsidian, were those who had given all their heat to the earth. And Religion spoke of them as God's Tears which created Tamin Orodruin.

Given enough use, Sunseeds become Moonseeds, and eventually become Sunseeds once more. However, it appears to take a decades for that to happen to Moonseeds, and Sunseeds have yet to show signs of becoming Moonseeds. This seems to be because Sunseeds give all their heat to the volcano, before becoming encased by their own cold as Moonseeds in solid rock.

Regardless, the discovery of Moonseeds led to the creation of the first steamship. Sunseeds turned water to steam, and Moonseeds turned steam back to water. Together, the steam turned a paddle connected to a gear, which in turn spun a larger shaft. And that shaft's paddles dipped into the water to push a boat forward. A simple and effective Steam Paddleboat. This tech eventually came to be utilized to create boats that could travel upstream, and in turn, gave rise to the first ocean ships. And those ships could travel far along the coastline, allowing us to spread our people to become a Kingdom.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Twinwolf on January 01, 2020, 08:02:51 pm

Quote

Etroan Water Purifier:
With advent of a near infinite source of boiling water, the ancient Etroans utilized this ability in a multitude of ways aside from keeping their houses warm. In addition to the many, many recipes for "Boiled Sheep", they have come up with an apparatus allowing stagnate or salt water into drinkable purified water. A vase, tub, or other water holding receptacle is placed under a series of leaves (later cloth) placed strategically to gather the steam emitting from the tub after the addition of a sunstone. The collected purified product is then led into a second tub which may be used for whatever purpose. Historians say this was likely discovered by a particularly clever blacksmith while quenching his metals. Aside from its main use, it is also used to this day to collect salt from the ocean in a desperate attempt to add some flavor to all the boiled food.

Difficulty: Easy
Rolls: 2 + 2 + 1 = 5 (Below Average)

Etroans started to boil water for drinking and cooking via sunseeds not too long after they started affixing the gems to their weaponry. The healers and shamans of the tribes, when they could acquire sunseeds, used them to boil water in specialized tubs and pots, and would both drink the water themselves and ask that others in the village did so. Scholars believe that the evidence indicates the practice was more ritualistic than it was health based, and as such wasn’t a practice followed by all Etroans. It was said that purging the water in the heat of the gods would make it holy and healing, and indeed, boiling the water killed any bacteria and parasites that might find their way into more stagnant drinking water. Overall it did improve the heath of the early Etroans, although it’s effects weren’t widespread due to the ritualistic nature of the practice

Quote

Macilmire, the Etroan Craft Swords
Etroan tribes, before uniting, were generally good at trading with one another. These trade connections strengthened the early tribes and bound them together, gradually merging their beliefs and cultures into the modern Etroa we know today. One tradition that was spread, quite rapidly, throughout the Etroan tribes was the practice of the "Craft Sword", the production of an extremely high-quality weapon to signify the end of an apprenticeship, or the acceptance of position of "master smith" and adoption of an apprentice. These swords are of a variety of types, mostly leaf-shaped and made of bronze. They are exceptionally well-made, decorated with all sorts of gems and inlays and, most importantly, Sunseeds. While for most peoples getting stabbed was bad, for Etroa's enemies getting stabbed could sometimes lead to small steam explosions in the stabbed area, a gruesome though mercifully quick way to die.

Difficulty: Hard
Rolls: 6 + 5 - 1 = 10 (Superior)

When an Etroan craftsman is skilled enough in their craft to take an apprentice of their own, they prove it. Potters, weavers, clothiers, all prove their ability to take an apprentice by presenting their master with a stellar piece of work of a specific type, a demonstration of their mastery of the craft. The tradition began with the smiths, who create intricate Macilimire Swords either for themselves or for great warriors of the tribe. Each weapon was unique, an expression of the smith’s skills and eccentricities.

The swords, called by some “sunshard swords”, are not dissimilar to the sunshard spear in function. While even without their special adornments they would be useful weapons in a chaotic melee, the use of sunseeds makes them a terrifying weapon. While slashes don’t often make long enough contact to make use of the heating effect of sunseeds, if the opponent is stabbed that can often be the end of a fight right there; even if the stab itself weren’t lethal, the heat of the sunseed will likely either end them outright or take them out of the battle. Macilimeres and similar weapons over the ages were favored by Etroan leaders for a long time in history.

---

The Classical Era:

In time, Etroa and the rest of the world grew. No longer a collection of squabbling tribes, but a nation based around the Etroan Caldera. The forge became central to a growing religious tradition, as did sunseeds; the craft of forging was a gift of the gods, and the Great Forge was considered a holy place (although of course, it was still in use - but now for the rulers of Etroa), and sunseeds were pieces of the forge god given to men as a gift for it’s favored creation. And as Etroan explorers ventured East into the mountains, they discovered the nation of Icona, who were awed by the craftsmanship and sunseeds of the Etroan cities. Trade was quickly established, giving Etroa access to more resources and spreading metalcraft.

But where there is prosperity, there is jealousy. The nation of Ofal rose from the coastal scrublands. They were nomads and wayfinders by nature, having landed in the scrublands and established a trading city long ago. But their new ruler had heard tell of the metalcraft and sunseeds, and was not satisfied with obtaining them through trade - instead he ordered his armies to take them by force. They marched through the forests and plains, rapidly taking the frontier villages and, through skill and force of arms, pushing to the edges of Etroa itself. To many, they seemed unstoppable.

This would not stand, and the craftsmen and thinkers of Etroa came together to think of a way to combat the threat. There will be one design prompt this turn. What military advancement helped turn the tide? Etroa would prove that Ofal was not an unstoppable force, driving them back to the sea, but what technology led them to do this?

Spoiler: Prelimary Proposals (click to show/hide)

Designs
Tamin Orodruin: The Tamin Orodruin caldera, while it’s status as the center of the world is debated, is the cradle of metalworking - it’s resources and the easy access to heat helped Etroans develop the trade early, and they have improved on it in the time since.

Sunshard Spears: Bronze spears tipped with sharpened sunseeds, a weapon combining two unique factors of Etroa. It causes heavy burns where it pierces - and while it cauterizes the wounds such that bleeding out isn’t a worry, the pain can often be incapacitating all the same.
   -Maclimire Craftswords: Before they can take an apprenticeship, an Etroan blacksmith must first craft a Maclimire to be recognized as a master. The swords are much like their cousins, the sunshard spears, in how they use sunseeds to turn already bad wounds into lethal stabs, although a bit better in close range.

Etroan Water Purifiers: Devices used in the ritualistic cleansing of water. Effective at making water safe to drink, although used primarily for ritual rather than day to day use.

Resources and Interactions
Sunseeds: Iridescent stones resembling opals, with fantastical properties focused around heat. When making contact with water, it rapidly heats up. Not much is known about it, but it surely has potential. This resource’s sphere is Heat.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 01, 2020, 08:20:52 pm

Sunscorched Earth Tactics: Ofal's mostly nomadic forces meant his logistic lines where essentially nonexistent. There was but one city and few farms to take resources from, forcing them to live off the land and their herds even during war time. Realizing this as a vulnerability, Etroans destroyed the lands of Olaf and Etroa alike. The shrubs where the enemy cattle gazed was put to the torch. Etroan villages about to be captured was put to the torch. Forests where burned, rivers where damed or rendered unusable with effective use of sunstone, not so much as a blade of grass was allowed to fall into enemy hands. Olaf was forced to retreat to greener pastures before it could claim a quarter of the country. Etroa pressed the advance on the now hungry Olafian troops, taking and eliminating the mostly open ground easily. A brief siege on their trading city ended when its supply of fish dwindled to nothingness, leaving a decisive victory for Etroa.

Aside from all the devastation in the war zone, of course.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Doomblade187 on January 01, 2020, 10:45:05 pm

I am not a fan of the proposal.

Edit: Specifically, I don't want to do scorched Earth tactics in general.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 01, 2020, 11:02:58 pm

Quote from: Doomblade187 on January 01, 2020, 10:45:05 pm

I am not a fan of the proposal.

Edit: Specifically, I don't want to do scorched Earth tactics in general.

If we go for the "Landship" tactics it will be kinda inevitable.

Just driving those things across the earth will probably scorch it :V. It would seem like the logical strategic decision, barring wonderweapons capable of turning the tide being already near completion by the time the invasion hits. Even with our industrial focus we arn't really to create, train the men in use of, and deploy sufficient wondereweaponsin time to stop the enemy that already has taken some of our villages without stalling tactics of some kind.

Steamy chariots!

Hero's Warcart: With the nomadic Ofal having an advantage when it comes to mobility, we had to come up with something that would allow us to close the gap. A merchant's cart was modified with wooden planks to protect those within from Ofal's famed archers, with small triangular holes carved in at regular intervals allowing our own men to release their own arrows or lash out with spears at any approaching enemy. A mobile fortress that will spell doom for the Ofal!

As horses would lead to an obvious week point in the armor design, aeolipile from the local shrines where brought out in an attempt to find an alternative means to move the cart. A bronze sphere with two opposite pointing nozzles was placed on each wheel. When a sunstone was dropped into the sphere, it would begin producing steam which would leave the nozzles at high velocities allowing them to spin in turn causing the wheel to turn. This allowed for self-propelled war machines, with notable design limitations (as the riders where unable to steer or even stop the cart, they had to be pulled by horses to the battlefield unless someone was willing to pump water in constantly, deployment limited to flat terrain, etc). Still, this creation was very capable of gaining ground against the invaders who's hit-and-run tactics now had limited success. It was even more capable of holding ground, forming walls at strategic positions or filling damaged portions of fortifications. It was one of the major factors allowing for an Etroan victory.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on January 02, 2020, 01:04:13 am

Saying we don't have time to deploy a new weapon in this war where we've been asked to describe the new weapon that we did in fact deploy to win the war seems....a little illogical?

It's doubtful that the Ofal have superior mobility just due to being nomadic. The cart is an absolutely HORRIBLE idea. It's unbalanced (as in, it might go in either direction randomly and is very likely to wreck), has no apparent reason for the water to not leak out of the very same places that the steam is coming out of (if I'm understanding it correctly; most other options I can think of that have a sphere with two holes drilled into it are physically impossible), it's short ranged and becomes useless after the water is expended; thus it does not provide the advantages of conventional chariots, which often are used to deliver a mobile force of heavy infantry to an enemy flank, and allowing them to quickly turn and withdraw if the fight stops going their way.

Did you EVEN CONSIDER adding a pair of handbrakes and water resupply for the system? Or at least figure out how to make the water NOT fall out immediately?

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 02, 2020, 01:19:10 am

Quote from: Madman198237 on January 02, 2020, 01:04:13 am

Saying we don't have time to deploy a new weapon in this war where we've been asked to describe the new weapon that we did in fact deploy to win the war seems....a little illogical?

It's doubtful that the Ofal have superior mobility just due to being nomadic. The cart is an absolutely HORRIBLE idea. It's unbalanced (as in, it might go in either direction randomly and is very likely to wreck), has no apparent reason for the water to not leak out of the very same places that the steam is coming out of (if I'm understanding it correctly; most other options I can think of that have a sphere with two holes drilled into it are physically impossible), it's short ranged and becomes useless after the water is expended; thus it does not provide the advantages of conventional chariots, which often are used to deliver a mobile force of heavy infantry to an enemy flank, and allowing them to quickly turn and withdraw if the fight stops going their way.

Did you EVEN CONSIDER adding a pair of handbrakes and water resupply for the system? Or at least figure out how to make the water NOT fall out immediately?

We have enough freedom to randomly describe Ofal however we want. So I described them as having a bunch of mobility as Mongol types with a bunch of horsies. If you want to describe them as the nomads who decided to get into heavy infantry be my guest.

The nozzles are angled so it only goes one direction? Duh? There is no reason it would just go either way.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b8/Aeolipile_illustration.png/330px-Aeolipile_illustration.png)

Umm do you have any idea what you're talking about? Shoot out the steam that way and it pushes you that way. It can and will only go one direction. It is really really simple.

It is also a real thing that I didn't just make up. Again see the above picture. It would have been available around the time and work exactly as I described (with the exception it would more realistically perform worse).

Put it in the center of the wheel and put the nozzles like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8gGuhj8NBY

The water is below the nozel hols so only steam gets out.

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it's short ranged and becomes useless after the water is expended

If only I thought about and wrote that in my post?

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which often are used to deliver a mobile force of heavy infantry to an enemy flank

It isn't doing that at all and is thus serving a completely different purpose than conventional chariots. If it were closer to anything, it would be a war wagon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_wagon). Which was used by the Han against the Xiongnu nomads. Who used horse archers in a similar way I suggested the Ofal did for the exact reasons I mentioned using it.

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Did you EVEN CONSIDER adding a pair of handbrakes and water resupply for the system? Or at least figure out how to make the water NOT fall out immediately?

See above. Water resupply would add weight and I'm already pushing the realism of this thing, I considered handbrakes but we have ancient Roman technology at best. What are you going to do? Put a stick in the wheel with the break?

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 02, 2020, 08:37:46 am

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ancient Gear Steamboat

One artifact made by a skilled craftsman was a water purifier that spun a chamber. Another, a gearbox powered by steam. As craftsmen did there utmost, they came up with many intricate items. However, with war, some artisans and craftsmen turned toward harnessing that power. The result was something rather strange.

Take an empty flat bowl twice, and attach two tubes that go at right angles. Attach two gears to the bottom of those bowls. And trough the center of those gears, two pipes which lead at right angles down to support the contraption. From there, attach a chamber, put a High-grade sunseed inside, pour water in, then tightly close the lid. With the two pipes being the only exit for the steam, they enter the circular chamber, and go out the two pipes outside. This spins the circular chamber, and in turn, spins the gears.

What is important about this is other gears, which are in turn spun. It's a proof of concept.


Now, it's size is increased. In this case, we have a boat. It has a hole in it on it's sides and cut out the back. and in the middle of that hol is an area for water to flow into the center of the ship. Here, metal is used with absidein, and many High Quailty Sunseeds attached at the bottom of the basin. As water flows in, it is evaporated into steam, which flows up thanks to the water flowing in blocking the other exit route.

This creates a steam chamber, and it is forced up through a pipe to the spinning chamber. It then flows out of four right angle pipes, causing that metal chamber to spin. As a result the gears also spin. And they in turn spin other gears. These gears connect to the back of the boat in an intricate assembly. And finally, they meet the end, where both are connected to a paddle. This spins the paddle, which hits the water, and brings the ship forward.

The boat is built on land, with the two chambers built by Blacksmiths and made of copper atop wood to seal it. Around this, the boat is built, with the keel connected to the bottom chamber, resting beneath it and supporting it. Deck beams are built to support the ship itself, and along cabin built around the upper chamber with open windows at the top. At this point, the gears are made, measured, and placed in their respective positions, and the boat placed in water. Finally, the paddle is put into position.

One note about the bottom chamber is that the entryway for water is covered by a raise-able cover. This is raised by a rope, and the entryway sealed to prevent steam from leaking. Note that the entryway has the rope going though it, as this allows the steam chambers to be activated and deactivated.

This ship will let us travel downriver and up at great speeds, without the need for the wind or manpower. Along with our ability to purify salt water into fresh, we shall take the fight to their coastal cities, raid their port ships with Sunshard weapons boiling them alive and setting fire to their ships. We shall break their industry and return them to hunter-gatherers before driving them off our lands. We shall give these pirates nowhere to go on the seas and rivers they use to raid us!

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Twinwolf on January 02, 2020, 09:14:42 am

The above design was directly veto'd. Ignore it.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on January 02, 2020, 10:48:48 am

If I'm not mistaken, the water is inside the sphere itself.

Quote

As horses would lead to an obvious week point in the armor design, aeolipile from the local shrines where brought out in an attempt to find an alternative means to move the cart. A bronze sphere with two opposite pointing nozzles was placed on each wheel. When a sunstone was dropped into the sphere, it would begin producing steam which would leave the nozzles at high velocities allowing them to spin in turn causing the wheel to turn.

This suggests to me that it's literally a sphere full of water with two holes in it. Angled so that the sphere spins in one direction. But there seems to be NOTHING stopping the water from leaking out---remember that as the sphere starts to spin up (And whenever one of the holes is below the level of the water) you're going to rapidly start losing water. And when you run out of water, the chariot goes from slow speed to no speed at all, which is completely undesirable for a chariot. We'd be better off just having our guys carry pavise-style shields; you'd get a similar amount of protection with sustained mobility.

And because it's losing water constantly, and in unpredictable amounts, you have no idea how long EITHER wheel will continue to spin, and you have no idea if either wheel is going to spin with the same power as the other wheel, meaning you'll turn unpredictably and not end up where you want to.

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This allowed for self-propelled war machines, with notable design limitations (as the riders where unable to steer or even stop the cart, they had to be pulled by horses to the battlefield unless someone was willing to pump water in constantly, deployment limited to flat terrain, etc).

This isn't a war machine, it's a teenager's joyride cart that somebody mistakenly brought to a battlefield and now wishes to find a use for, despite it being a terrible idea.

Quote

Still, this creation was very capable of gaining ground against the invaders who's hit-and-run tactics now had limited success. It was even more capable of holding ground, forming walls at strategic positions or filling damaged portions of fortifications. It was one of the major factors allowing for an Etroan victory.

This isn't going to do a darn thing against hit-and-run tactics, actually, because you run forwards once, the enemy's lighter forces outrun you (even if they're just light infantry on foot they WILL outrun this unreliable "war" cart), then they come back and hit your barely-protected self really fast.

By the way, you DO realize that a chariot not pulled by multiple horses can't possibly be heavily constructed, right? This steam trick isn't going to produce *that* much thrust.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 02, 2020, 11:20:57 am

Spoiler: Ignore for now (click to show/hide)

Jewel Arms

While Sunseeds are prevalent, it is not the only gem to exist in the caldera. Rubies, emeralds, beryl, and sapphires, along with topaz and onyx. While in small quantities, they can be found.

Some craftsmen began to experiment with them. And one such discovery was in the use of Sunseed Powder, sand, and jewel dust. By melting these three together with the forge, and pouring it into a mold, something new begins to form. By adding a tiny bit of copper into the mix, a sword can be folded into being through hammers.

The result is something far stronger than anything we've made before. The sunseed powder acts to fuse different items together. The Jewel Dust used forms another jewel. And by using that bit of copper, it's possible to fold a sword that is made up of almost 100% Jewel. The use of sand is debated, but it seems that finer sand creates better results.(This is more modern knowledge, but sand contains silica. This is actually a base of Beryl, silicates.)

This sword doesn't actually show any of Sunseeds effects however, mostly due to it's heat being used to bring the jewels together for forging. However, the resulting process can easily forge into high-quality armor and arms, greatly increasing our military power. The only thing that can scratch these items are other jewels or obsidian. Copper has no chance of doing so, and arms made from them are exceedingly sharp as well, so long as the proper gems are used to sharpen the edges. The stone known as Sapphire works best, as the clear diamond is far too rare and can't be broken down.

Sunglass

Sunglass is a strange item which is made by melting down sand and adding Sunshard powder into the mix during the forging process. The heat of the Sunshard powder gathers the glass to itself, and through multiple treatments with steadily more Sunshard powder being added, the result is a material which shows material strength slightly less than Sunseeds themselves. (Which is about the strength of beryl for Sunseeds. So this is about the strength of Quartz, or 7 on the Mohs Scale). The material is quite hard, resistant to fracturing, and can be reforged from pieces of itself.

By making ingots of this material,  Sunglass ingots can then be forged into strong pieces of armor or weapons. They are far better than the copper we've been using up till now, but they can't really be replaced since the process permanently imbues the glass with the Sunseed Powder, tinting it's in shades ranging from red to yellow.

From here, we can create lightweight armor to protect the torso, and greaves for the legs and arms, as well as shoulder-pads . Likewise, we can use the new Sunglass in new Maclimire longswords and swords, along with using it with wood to create large shields.

Sunglass' only real weakness likely lies in it being too light for maces and axes, more suited to cutting and piercing weapons. But these are all minor problems in the face of such a strong material for defense and offense. And it's lightness will prove itself useful as well.

As a side note, one weapon that was thought up is something called a buster sword, which is effectively a huge slab of Sunglass with a metal center for the pole-handle. Lot of range and very sharp on it's cutting side, and big enough to serve a shield.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 02, 2020, 04:46:44 pm

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If I'm not mistaken, the water is inside the spIf I'm not mistaken, the water is inside the sphere itself.here itself.

Correct. Like in the video I just showed you.

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This suggests to me that it's literally a sphere full of water with two holes in it.

It isn't my fault you are unable to read or look up what "aeolipile" is and come to stupid conclusions.

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But there seems to be NOTHING stopping the water from leaking out---remember that as the sphere starts to spin up (And whenever one of the holes is below the level of the water) you're going to rapidly start losing water.

It also isn't my fault you are unable to look at a video I just showed you with a spinning sphere that was perfectly capable of spinning without loosing water. If you are tired of being stupid and wrong you could just say "Huh you where right Stirk!", I'll accept your apology out of the kindness of my heart.

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And when you run out of water, the chariot goes from slow speed to no speed at all, which is completely undesirable for a chariot

It isn't a conventional chariot. It is a war wagon. Again your illiteracy isn't my fault, nor is your apparent unwillingness to lick on sources. The downsides are intentional because
1. We are trying to make prototype steam engine in Roman times
2. Without any tech base to do anything fancy
3. We are apparently throwing this together as they are kicking down the door
4. And we autowin the fight against the nomads, so it can have reasonable flaws that won't actually matter in the end.

Given that more advanced steamships have been vetoed I'm already pushing it.

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This isn't a war machine, it's a teenager's joyride cart that somebody mistakenly brought to a battlefield and now wishes to find a use for, despite it being a terrible idea.

You've been wrong and dumb this entire time, consistently ignoring what I said. So I'll just use this space to call you dumb again.

Quote

This isn't going to do a darn thing against hit-and-run tactics, actually, because you run forwards once, the enemy's lighter forces outrun you (even if they're just light infantry on foot they WILL outrun this unreliable "war" cart), then they come back and hit your barely-protected self really fast.

It reduces the power of the "hit" and makes enemy cavalry charges impossible, in addition to being able to create "circle the wagon" type mobile forts with well protected behinds. Like I said (repeatedly) war wagons were used in real life situations mirroring that which we are in. As said briefly in the source I went to the trouble of linking.

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By the way, you DO realize that a chariot not pulled by multiple horses can't possibly be heavily constructed, right? This steam trick isn't going to produce *that* much thrust.

Yep. We're going to have to ignore this "steam power kinda sucks" thing if we are going to make steam power our main gimmick. Believe it or not steam can't run giant robots in real life either. We might as well start working on bypassing our limitations.

Now are you going to actually read and refute anything I actually said this time, or just repeat your idiotic complaints for a third time?

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 02, 2020, 05:53:05 pm

Moonseeds and Obsidian Shatterrocks

Many sought to use the divine power stored in the Sunseeds, and much was tried, somewhat haphazardly. However, one person, a hermit from the Mountain peaks, buried Sunseeds in Ice. After a month, they turned a cool blue. Once removed, it was discovered that these seeds froze water and liquids on contact, spreading their chill in the process.

This was determined to be the seeds soaking up the heat of other objects around them once water/liquid was applied.

Meanwhile, a certain madman created the first catapult, and successfully made use of it by hurling stones.

The two together however, gave rise to the creation of a new ammo type.

First, Moonseeds were bound and had their bottom half dipped in lava. They robbed the lava of it's heat as they were pulled out, creating an obsidian shell. This in turn was repeated until large buckets could be created to haul the lava out safely.

Lava was poured over a rock, with the Moonseeds inset into the rock. The Moonseeds quickly robbed the lavaflow of it's heat on contact, causing it to harden. Then, once the rock had been covered, the seeds were cracked from their obsidian tomb, and the process repeated until the rock was 1 meter of rock core, and four of obsidian shell. The Moonseeds were removed, and lava poured in the holes as Moonshard spears were used to harden the lava. Once cooled, the Obsidian Shatterrock was complete. On contact with the earth, it would shatter, sending razorsharp obsidian fragments flying through bodies and armor alike. And thanks to the methods used, the fragments were extremely pointy due to taking on the aspects of frost upon the earth, crystalline.

Incidentally, it was found that eventually, Moonseeds used in this process turned back to Sunseeeds after enough dunking, which caused a few issues. However, Moonseeds that weren't dunked in lava for long periods of time have shown no signs of turning back, and has made ice commercially available to everyone.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on January 02, 2020, 06:11:26 pm

Quote from: Stirk on January 02, 2020, 04:46:44 pm

Quote

And when you run out of water, the chariot goes from slow speed to no speed at all, which is completely undesirable for a chariot

It isn't a conventional chariot. It is a war wagon. Again your illiteracy isn't my fault, nor is your apparent unwillingness to lick on sources. The downsides are intentional because
1. We are trying to make prototype steam engine in Roman times
2. Without any tech base to do anything fancy
3. We are apparently throwing this together as they are kicking down the door
4. And we autowin the fight against the nomads, so it can have reasonable flaws that won't actually matter in the end.

Given that more advanced steamships have been vetoed I'm already pushing it.

Chariot, war wagon, similar enough that I'm sure you'll excuse the terminology out of the kindness of your heart. Ancient era was known mostly for its chariots, after all. The downsides outnumber the possible upsides so far that I can't imagine trying to use it in warfare intentionally.

Quote

Quote

This isn't a war machine, it's a teenager's joyride cart that somebody mistakenly brought to a battlefield and now wishes to find a use for, despite it being a terrible idea.

You've been wrong and dumb this entire time, consistently ignoring what I said. So I'll just use this space to call you dumb again.

Just saying that I've been wrong in other places does not, in fact, allow you to brush off my comments and claim that you are right. Not to mention it being somewhat outside the spirit of arms races to insult people.

Quote

Quote

This isn't going to do a darn thing against hit-and-run tactics, actually, because you run forwards once, the enemy's lighter forces outrun you (even if they're just light infantry on foot they WILL outrun this unreliable "war" cart), then they come back and hit your barely-protected self really fast.

It reduces the power of the "hit" and makes enemy cavalry charges impossible, in addition to being able to create "circle the wagon" type mobile forts with well protected behinds. Like I said (repeatedly) war wagons were used in real life situations mirroring that which we are in. As said briefly in the source I went to the trouble of linking.

War wagons were used, sometimes, but they could also be moved reliably, without turning uncontrollably due to differences in propulsion between the aeolipiles. You can't "circle the wagons" if your wagons run out of fuel and then must be moved by hand, ESPECIALLY if you expect to be fighting a more mobile, mounted foe, who will be able to reach you before you can circle them. Or, if you circle them up far enough way, just ignore it and go around the now-immobile "fort".

Quote

Quote

By the way, you DO realize that a chariot not pulled by multiple horses can't possibly be heavily constructed, right? This steam trick isn't going to produce *that* much thrust.

Yep. We're going to have to ignore this "steam power kinda sucks" thing if we are going to make steam power our main gimmick. Believe it or not steam can't run giant robots in real life either. We might as well start working on bypassing our limitations.

Now are you going to actually read and refute anything I actually said this time, or just repeat your idiotic complaints for a third time?

We can ignore that steam power is too weak but it's much harder to go from "super weak" to "lol we just roll up the ancient equivalent of an APC" than is worth doing for a gimmick that is barely functional as a weapon of war.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 02, 2020, 06:25:46 pm

Quote from: Madman198237 on January 02, 2020, 06:11:26 pm

Chariot, war wagon, similar enough that I'm sure you'll excuse the terminology out of the kindness of your heart. Ancient era was known mostly for its chariots, after all. The downsides outnumber the possible upsides so far that I can't imagine trying to use it in warfare intentionally.

Sorry for thinking that calling it a not-chariot, describing it as a not-chariot, and giving a tactical description completely separate from what chariots do would make you figure out that it doesn't serve the same roll as a normal chariot. I'll stop assuming you have the basic competence now to prevent this kind of confusion in the future.

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Just saying that I've been wrong in other places does not, in fact, allow you to brush off my comments and claim that you are right. Not to mention it being somewhat outside the spirit of arms races to insult people.

You didn't actually make an argument in that quote? You just said it was dumb. So I said you were dumb. If it is outside the spirit then maybe you should stop being so condescending in the first place? Smug and wrong, choose one. If you're going to try being smug and wrong (like now :P), everyone will just hate you.

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War wagons were used, sometimes, but they could also be moved reliably, without turning uncontrollably due to differences in propulsion between the aeolipiles. You can't "circle the wagons" if your wagons run out of fuel and then must be moved by hand, ESPECIALLY if you expect to be fighting a more mobile, mounted foe, who will be able to reach you before you can circle them. Or, if you circle them up far enough way, just ignore it and go around the now-immobile "fort".

They should all have roughly the same propulsion, unless you have a compelling reason they would randomly be different. As I said in my first post they would be brought to the battlefield by conventional horsepower in most cases, which can circle the wagons since they're basically just wagons at that point. "Fort" placement would be key, we live in a mountainous caldera with plenty of points that should be able to block off enemy horses.

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We can ignore that steam power is too weak but it's much harder to go from "super weak" to "lol we just roll up the ancient equivalent of an APC" than is worth doing for a gimmick that is barely functional as a weapon of war.

You have been wrong in every case you brought up insulting its functionality. So just because you were wrong before totally makes you wrong here, since all your arguments for why it would be bad are wrong :V

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Twinwolf on January 02, 2020, 06:31:34 pm

To be blunt, Stirk, you have been acting far more "smug and wrong" than Madman has pretty much since the game started. Don't pretend you're on some moral and intellectual high ground when you're digging yourself deeper. Not to say Madman hasn't been rude, but you're far from guiltless.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Doomblade187 on January 02, 2020, 06:53:15 pm

Steam Belchers

Some nations made catapults. Some nations made ballistae. Etroa made steam belchers. Smooth-bore cast bronze tubes with a large steam valve hooked up, water would be poured into a chamber sitting behind the barrel, where a sunseed would convert it to steam. The water entry being tightly sealed, pressure would build until either the valve between the barrel broke open or a lever was pulled to open it, and allow the steam to vent, propelling whatever was in the barrel at high speeds directly ahead, or arcing at a range. These could fire smaller metal balls or larger metal shells filled with burning oil for anti-infantry use.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 02, 2020, 06:54:55 pm

Quote from: Twinwolf on January 02, 2020, 06:31:34 pm

To be blunt, Stirk, you have been acting far more "smug and wrong" than Madman has pretty much since the game started. Don't pretend you're on some moral and intellectual high ground when you're digging yourself deeper. Not to say Madman hasn't been rude, but you're far from guiltless.

I'm smug and right. It is different. Plus it is an endearing, charming smugness that everyone loves.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: Doomblade187 on January 02, 2020, 06:57:41 pm

Quote from: Stirk on January 02, 2020, 06:54:55 pm

Quote from: Twinwolf on January 02, 2020, 06:31:34 pm

To be blunt, Stirk, you have been acting far more "smug and wrong" than Madman has pretty much since the game started. Don't pretend you're on some moral and intellectual high ground when you're digging yourself deeper. Not to say Madman hasn't been rude, but you're far from guiltless.

I'm smug and right. It is different. Plus it is an endearing, charming smugness that everyone loves.

No, it's really not. :(

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 1 - Design Phase)
Post by: The Ensorceler on January 02, 2020, 08:13:12 pm

Design: Winecutter
An innovative design pioneered by an ambitious gang of apprentice smiths, the Winecutter was quickly adopted as the signature Etroan weapon. A small wineskin fitted with a nozzle is inserted into the handle, where a lever operated rachet pumps wine into a sunseed chamber where it rapidly boils under pressure well past its ignition point. When the lever is released, the searing hot wine instantly vaporizes ant travels at great speed through a hollow blade, exploding on contact with the air into a sheet of liquid flame able to carve through most materials in an instant.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/657242474271735811/662463373199540226/aed801a3-8589-4b26-9d33-b10eccefed44.png)

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on January 04, 2020, 02:32:25 pm

Sunseed Glass

Sunseed glass was created by a drunken glassblower who decided it would be a good idea to crush a sunseed and add it to his glass. When the resulting piece of glassware was finished, it was found that it was unusually bright and seemed to glow in the dark, impressing the priest who commissioned the piece enough that the creator managed to avoid getting executed for heresy. For the next decade or so, people explored the use of sunseed glass for decorative purposes, creating all kinds of glowing glassware. One temple even had a skylight made of the stuff installed, providing illumination even in the dead of night.

The first military use of this material occurred during the Ofal-Etroa war, when some other genius realized that this stuff could be used to allow our soldiers to see in complete darkness because it amplifies light going through it in a way similar to the photocathode tubes found in modern night vision goggles. Soon, goggles with sunseed glass eyepieces capable of only amplifying light going in one direction (thus avoiding giving away the wearer’s position)  were being issued to specially-formed units to fight in the dead of night.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 04, 2020, 02:45:05 pm

Quote from: Vostok on January 04, 2020, 02:32:25 pm

Sunseed Glass

Sunseed glass was created by a drunken glassblower who decided it would be a
good idea to crush a sunseed and add it to his glass. When the resulting piece
of glassware was finished, it was found that it was unusually bright and
glowed in the dark, impressing the priest who commissioned the piece enough
that the creator managed to avoid getting executed for heresy. For the decade
or so, people explored the use of sunseed glass for decorative purposes,
creating all kinds of glowing glassware. One temple even had a skylight made
of the stuff installed, providing illumination even in the dead of night.

The first military use of this material occurred during the Ofal-Etroa war,
when some other genius realized that this stuff could be used to allow our
soldiers to see in complete darkness. Soon, goggles with sunseed glass
eyepieces that enabled their users to see in the dark were being issued to
specially-formed units to fight in the dead of night.

I'm just going to note that light reflects off objects and enters our eyes. Something glowing is not a valid substitute. That and Sunseeds govern heat. Maybe if it amplified incoming light? In that manner, so long as there was light, you could see.

Though that design also renders Sunglass difficult...

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 04, 2020, 03:41:54 pm

Quote from: Death to Olaf

Sunscorched Earth Tactics: ()
Hero's Warcart: ()
Sunglass: ()
Moonseeds and Obsidian Shatterrocks: ()
Steam Belchers:(1) Stirk
Winecutter:()
Sunseed Glass:()

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 04, 2020, 04:40:35 pm

Flames of the Sun-Blade

One particular that was discovered by Etroa in regards to the Sunseeds is that they react extremely to alcohol. There was one time where a Sunseed ended up dropped in a barrel of particularly alcoholic beer burnt down a good section of the forest. Past that point, it was mostly toyed with and found that more alcoholic drinks reacted better. That is, in most towns, a splash of alcohol on wood is used with a Sunseed to jump-start fire for cooking.

However, Ofal is pushing into the lands with iron armor for all their troops, along with using their boats to push us. Why they have so much iron is questionable, and while the armor may be low quality it still turns aside our spears and swords most times. So we turned toward experimenting with using alcohol to transfer the mighty power of the sun unto our foes.

To do this, we took a Sunseed and cut it to serve as the end of a hilt. The center of the hilt, meanwhile, was comprised of 6 rectangular tubes made of copper, wrapped together with leather and sealed. And on the bottom of the hilt was a long leather bag filled with alcohol, with a lid for unscrewing to fill again near the hilt.

By using two hands, the warrior could squeeze the bag as they swung, forcing the alchohol out the blade at high speed. This alcohol would instantly ignite as it touched the Sunseed, becoming a blade of pure flame. This flame, when touching something solid would instantly melt it. And if more force was used to squeeze the bag, it would actually cut straight through everything, with the solid object ceasing to exist where it cut.

It is a weapon that requires quite a bit of skill to wield. However, the fact is that the flame has a reach of up to 10 meters when swung. This weapon can only really show it's ability when swung, as that is when the Sunseed's power best shows itself, when concentrated along a line.

It can and was however used to cut doors in solid walls, as well as to set fire to ships and cities. Moreover, it is safe for a skilled wielder, despite the heat of the flame. A few droplets can't melt through leather, though they will cause burns. But the flame is always directed away from the user, and last but a second before the alcohol burns away from the main body of the flame-sword's strike.

Modern Terminology, Reaction: Liquid Ethanol+Sunseed contact = Melting/Sublimation of solid objects through Flame.

Quote from: Death to Olaf

Sunscorched Earth Tactics: ()
Hero's Warcart: ()
Sunglass: ()
Moonseeds and Obsidian Shatterrocks: ()
Steam Belchers:(1) Stirk
Winecutter:()
Sunseed Glass:()
Flames of the Sun-Blade: (1) TricMagic

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on January 04, 2020, 07:36:46 pm

Quote from: Death to Olaf

Sunscorched Earth Tactics: ()
Hero's Warcart: ()
Sunglass: ()
Moonseeds and Obsidian Shatterrocks: ()
Steam Belchers:(1) Stirk
Winecutter:()
Sunseed Glass: (1) Vostok
Flames of the Sun-Blade: (1) TricMagic

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Design Phase)
Post by: The Ensorceler on January 05, 2020, 01:09:08 am

Quote from: Death to Olaf

Sunscorched Earth Tactics: ()
Hero's Warcart: ()
Sunglass: ()
Moonseeds and Obsidian Shatterrocks: ()
Steam Belchers:(1) Stirk
Winecutter:(1) The Ensorceler
Sunseed Glass: (1) Vostok
Flames of the Sun-Blade: (1) TricMagic

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Design Phase)
Post by: Rockeater on January 05, 2020, 03:11:43 pm

Quote from: Death to Olaf

Sunscorched Earth Tactics: ()
Hero's Warcart: ()
Sunglass: ()
Moonseeds and Obsidian Shatterrocks: ()
Steam Belchers:(2) Stirk, Rockeater
Winecutter:(1) The Ensorceler
Sunseed Glass: (1) Vostok
Flames of the Sun-Blade: (1) TricMagic

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Design Phase)
Post by: Doomblade187 on January 06, 2020, 05:02:00 pm

Quote from: Death to Olaf

Sunscorched Earth Tactics: ()
Hero's Warcart: ()
Sunglass: ()
Moonseeds and Obsidian Shatterrocks: ()
Steam Belchers:(2) Stirk, Rockeater
Winecutter:(1) The Ensorceler
Sunseed Glass: (2) Vostok, Doomblade
Flames of the Sun-Blade: (1) TricMagic

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Design Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on January 08, 2020, 09:14:32 pm

Quote

Angamolen, the Ironworks
When pressed by our enemies, a great inventor came forth to aid his country. The ancient taminrim (probably the appropriate plural form of tamin [forge]? I dunno, I wish the site showed plurals...anyway) of Orodruin were worked by master smiths and their apprentices, and turned out great works steadily, but slowly. Closer to the volcano, however, there was too much heat and lots of noxious gases making it too hard to do precision smithworking. Enter Tuimmolindo, a great inventor who worked with many tricks, toys, and a few pieces of showmanship using steam, included his famed Steam-Powered Children's Toy-Retrieving Game, which has plagued fairs and markets with its unfair gameplay and high prices.

Using steam power, Tuimmolindo produced a wonder of engineering, a device capable of melting down iron using the heat of the flowing lava, closer to the caldera, closer to the molten streams, places where humans could not work. Steam-powered machinery based on the mechanical arm moved iron ore in troughs of brickwork that could withstand the heat, at least for some time. As the ore melted, it filled the trough, which could then be pulled away and left to cool into a plate-shaped lump of metal. The iron could then be sent to the smiths nearby, who could work the plate into armor. Ironworking was no longer restricted to the very best of smiths. Or at least the smiths wealthy enough to afford a lot of apprentices to work the raw ore constantly, anyway. Iron cannot be melted in a normal forge, and before Tuimmolindo developed his iron-melting building it took many, many hours of hammering heated ore until a nearly-pure form of iron, wrought iron, could be worked. Iron ore is plentiful, but in these ancient days, able hands were not. Too many were needed to work the fields, or, now, fight the invaders.

The arms were sheathed in ceramics that could at least briefly protect the wood from heat and the air that would cause it to catch fire. Long enough to suspend their small payloads over the rivers of lava without immediately catching fire, powered by a water pump seesaw device that could move pistons and outsized aeolipiles driving pulley systems to swing the simple arm towards and away from the lava, and lower and raise it. Many of them were built quite quickly to fuel the war efforts, which would go on for many years. Another aeolipile system just spins a rope across two pulleys, used to constantly haul buckets of water up to the top of the arm, where a simple wooden peg catches the buckets and causes them to dump water on the arm to keep it cool. The buckets are refueled from aqueducts dug or laid in stone and bricks expressly for both that purpose and for powering the steam machinery.

Angamolen iron was often brittle, impure, and had widely varying carbon contents, but under the care of the many smiths it became serviceable enough as armor. It may not have been the best, but it was much cheaper than bronze, and therefore when we marched to war against the invaders our troops had more plentiful metal armor. Iron cuirasses with sleeves and skirts of scale backed with thick cloth, iron cap or bronze helmet, marched to war against the invaders. Yes, the armor was not of the same quality as hammered bronze, yes it sometimes broke under blows or shattered into splinters, yes it was sometimes closer to cast iron than armor, but this first foray into standard metal armor would throw back the ill-equipped enemy.

Quote from: Death to Olaf

Sunscorched Earth Tactics: ()
Hero's Warcart: ()
Sunglass: ()
Moonseeds and Obsidian Shatterrocks: ()
Steam Belchers:(2) Stirk, Rockeater
Winecutter:(1) The Ensorceler
Sunseed Glass: (2) Vostok, Doomblade
Flames of the Sun-Blade: (1) TricMagic
Angamolen (Ironworks): (1) Madman

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Design Phase)
Post by: Jilladilla on January 09, 2020, 12:26:56 am

Mostly; not sure how you intend for Sunseed Glass to work, Vostok. Sure, it glows; but glowing object does not make nightvision. Maybe if the reaction was glowing in response to detecting heat or something along those lines. As for the steam cannon, it feels too early for payload-carrying cannons.

Besides, ahead of time metallurgy is our thing. And this advances Steampower too!

Quote from: Death to Olaf

Sunscorched Earth Tactics: ()
Hero's Warcart: ()
Sunglass: ()
Moonseeds and Obsidian Shatterrocks: ()
Steam Belchers:(2) Stirk, Rockeater
Winecutter:(1) The Ensorceler
Sunseed Glass: (2) Vostok, Doomblade
Flames of the Sun-Blade: (1) TricMagic
Angamolen (Ironworks): (2) Madman, Jilladilla

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on January 09, 2020, 01:50:10 am

Quote from: Jilladilla on January 09, 2020, 12:26:56 am

Mostly; not sure how you intend for Sunseed Glass to work, Vostok. Sure, it glows; but glowing object does not make nightvision. Maybe if the reaction was glowing in response to detecting heat or something along those lines. As for the steam cannon, it feels too early for payload-carrying cannons.

Quote from: TricMagic on January 04, 2020, 02:45:05 pm

I'm just going to note that light reflects off objects and enters our eyes. Something glowing is not a valid substitute. That and Sunseeds govern heat. Maybe if it amplified incoming light? In that manner, so long as there was light, you could see.

Yeah...I forgot to add the part that explained how i actually expected it to work. Tric is right in that it works by light amplification (nice catch, by the way)--the "glowing" effect was intended more as an early application of this before people figured out its use for night vision, because that's basically what you'd get when you have something amplifying light passing through it. I've updated the writeup since.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 09, 2020, 09:59:03 am

Quote from: Death to Olaf

Sunscorched Earth Tactics: ()
Hero's Warcart: ()
Sunglass: ()
Moonseeds and Obsidian Shatterrocks: ()
Steam Belchers:(2) Stirk, Rockeater
Winecutter:(1) The Ensorceler
Sunseed Glass: (2) Vostok, Doomblade
Flames of the Sun-Blade: ()
Angamolen (Ironworks): (3) Madman, Jilladilla, TricMagic

---

Revision: Stratification of Lava

First, Dig a hole near the Cauldron. Second, take good quality clay and create a rounded pot. Third, bake the clay with Sunseeds, pouring hot water in it. Fourth, once the water has evaporated and the clay pot is done, create a channel to let lava pour into the pot. Fifth, cut off the flow with dirt mixed with obsidian shards and sand. Sixth, suspend a Sunseed in the lava's center.

This will cause the Lava around it to stay the same temperature, greatly reducing it's cooling speed as the Sunseed sends it's heat into the oxygen-rich lava. Meanwhile the lava near the edges of the pot will cool faster than the lava near the Sunseed. Hold it for 2 hours, then remove the Sunseed and wait for it to cool overnight.

After which, shatter the top of the obsidian. This will cause the obsidian to crack, with the layers that cooled first having a variation to the layers that cooled later. Use rocks to scrape off the stray obsidian, and the pot should now be somewhat smooth along the stratification. And so a pot has been created that can hold lava.

This is fairly important, since that pot is then filled with some Sunseeds, and the lava flow started again. Once filled, the lavaflow is stopped up again, and the Pot is left there for 3 days and nights.

Come that dawn, the pot is dug up and shattered into pieces along the edges. The result is high quality materials like colored obsidian, (red)iron, aluminum, and titanium, along with some other materials.

Of these, iron is of particular use to us, as we don't quite know quite what to do with the rest as of right now. Though the colored obsidian is useful for making arrows and crafts out of. And the sunseeds can also be extracted from the lowest material to be used again and again in this manner once enough material has been removed, though they become somewhat useless for any other application due to the covering of material on them.

Modern Reaction: Sunseeds can maintain high temperature of lava when in contact with the liquid body. Different numbers of Sunseeds can affect the cool rate. Possible to maintain a high temperature indefinitely if placed correctly with sufficient number, otherwise, will eventually cool down.

---

Mostly a process with which to cause lava to stratify through time which it does not normally have. Oxygen is prevalent in all the materials though, so you get the oxidized aluminium out of it, as well as red iron. As well as the various colored obsidian which forms from silicate, which is usually the most prevalent of the materials you get Of these, only the obsidian and iron is likely to have a use in the current age, though titanium and aluminium farming is a modern example of this technique. Along with the other materials in it.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Design Phase)
Post by: The Ensorceler on January 09, 2020, 06:27:51 pm

Lunguma, the Heavy Hand
A large bronze gauntlet first developed in response to the Ofal invasion, the Lunguma is an artisan's tool of the highest caliber. Using a sunseed aeoliopile driven flywheel as kinetic battery and a clutch brake actuated by the squeeze of a hand, the Lunguma can concentrate immense force into a rail piston projected past the forearm to slam home metal nails, plant wooden posts, carve rock, hammer metal and more. Alternate and more specialized variants for sustained and lower impact use could saw through wood, ram earthworks, or bore holes. 'Armed' with the Lunguma, Etroan combat and civil engineers unleashed a wave of construction and innovation, erecting structures overnight that would have taken days or weeks to assemble with outdated methods.
Although attractive, few ever succeeded in weaponizing the Lunguma for long, and those with the expertise to wield it were better used in their natural engineering roles.

The Ofal would overrun Etroan positions and force retreats only to encounter yet more, and better defended, positions popping up again and again like the heads of a great hydra. Against such endless fortification, the Ofalian ranks crashed until there was no more heart left in the warmongerers and they went home in shame.

Quote from: Death to Olaf

Sunscorched Earth Tactics: ()
Hero's Warcart: ()
Sunglass: ()
Moonseeds and Obsidian Shatterrocks: ()
Steam Belchers:(2) Stirk, Rockeater
Winecutter:(1) The Ensorceler
Sunseed Glass: (2) Vostok, Doomblade
Flames of the Sun-Blade: ()
Angamolen (Ironworks): (3) Madman, Jilladilla, TricMagic
Lunguma, the Heavy Hand: (2) Rockeater, The Ensorceler

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Design Phase)
Post by: Jilladilla on January 09, 2020, 06:40:00 pm

Quote from: Death to Olaf

Sunscorched Earth Tactics: ()
Hero's Warcart: ()
Sunglass: ()
Moonseeds and Obsidian Shatterrocks: ()
Steam Belchers:(2) Stirk, Rockeater
Winecutter:(1) The Ensorceler
Sunseed Glass: (2) Vostok, Doomblade
Flames of the Sun-Blade: ()
Angamolen (Ironworks): (2) Madman, TricMagic
Lunguma, the Heavy Hand: (3) Rockeater, The Ensorceler, Jilladilla

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Design Phase)
Post by: Failbird105 on January 09, 2020, 07:02:19 pm

Quote from: Death to Olaf

Sunscorched Earth Tactics: ()
Hero's Warcart: ()
Sunglass: ()
Moonseeds and Obsidian Shatterrocks: ()
Steam Belchers:(2) Stirk, Rockeater
Winecutter:(1) The Ensorceler
Sunseed Glass: (2) Vostok, Doomblade
Flames of the Sun-Blade: ()
Angamolen (Ironworks): (2) Madman, TricMagic
Lunguma, the Heavy Hand: (4) Rockeater, The Ensorceler, Jilladilla, Failbird

Alright, I was conflicted on which side to join for a while, but power-fist is the nail in the coffin.
Or rather, it's what nailed the coffin shut.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Design Phase)
Post by: Twinwolf on January 09, 2020, 11:06:50 pm

Preliminary Turn 2 - Design Phase

Quote

Lunguma, the Heavy Hand
A large bronze gauntlet first developed in response to the Ofal invasion, the Lunguma is an artisan's tool of the highest caliber. Using a sunseed aeoliopile driven flywheel as kinetic battery and a clutch brake actuated by the squeeze of a hand, the Lunguma can concentrate immense force into a rail piston projected past the forearm to slam home metal nails, plant wooden posts, carve rock, hammer metal and more. Alternate and more specialized variants for sustained and lower impact use could saw through wood, ram earthworks, or bore holes. 'Armed' with the Lunguma, Etroan combat and civil engineers unleashed a wave of construction and innovation, erecting structures overnight that would have taken days or weeks to assemble with outdated methods.
Although attractive, few ever succeeded in weaponizing the Lunguma for long, and those with the expertise to wield it were better used in their natural engineering roles.

The Ofal would overrun Etroan positions and force retreats only to encounter yet more, and better defended, positions popping up again and again like the heads of a great hydra. Against such endless fortification, the Ofalian ranks crashed until there was no more heart left in the warmongerers and they went home in shame.

Difficulty: Hard
Roll: 4 + 5 - 1 = 8 (Average)

The “Lunguma” gauntlet is a noted feat of Etroan engineering. It was created by an engineer who had lost an arm during his time as a soldier, and could thus no longer work to his former capability and skill. The One Armed Craftsman created the blueprints himself, and with the help of a couple assistants for tasks that needed an extra arm, built the first Heavy Hand apparatus and in doing so changed Etroan engineering for good.

While it’s called a gauntlet, the Lunguma is significantly larger than the traditional gauntlet, covering the arm, shoulder blade, and a bit of the chest and back on the side it’s equipped; craftsmen that used it frequently were known to get some serious strength from the exercise lugging around and using the full-arm apparatus so often. The bulk is required for function - there’s a lot of mechanisms that have to fit into the space; the engine (considered to be the first primitive steam engine by historians), the piston, backup sunseeds, water tanks, and more. While complexity of construction and difficulty of accurate operation did mean that not every engineer could or did use it, it was still a frequent sight in construction sites and in military fortifications - being able to ram something with great force, it turns out, is a significant asset.

This ability allowed a counter to one of Ofal’s preferred strategies. Often, their troops would find a weak spot in the Etroan lines, hammer it and push through to flank the enemy. While the Lunguma did not stop them from being able to do this, it did make a different change. One: It helped Etroan soldiers build fortifications quicker. Two: It forced Ofalian soldiers to either break through in minutes or else face a second line of fortifications facing the angle they’re flanking from. And then a third. And a fourth.

Eventually, breaking over the fortifications like waves on a beach, the Ofalians were repelled. As the counterattack began in earnest, some things were noticed about the invaders. They had an uncanny ability to navigate in foreign lands, never getting lost even in the confusing environment of the geyser fields. The second was the surprising discipline of their troops and commanders; there were several individuals reported by scouts as not apparently part of the regular army but seemingly with just as much respect as a commander among it’s troops; however, none were reported slain or captured, having always left before the fighting. The mysteries would be resolved soon, as Etroa started marching into the shrublands where the Ofalian’s port city stood.

From the mountains came a message and call for aid. The Iconans had not been able to aid against the Ofalians because they were locked in battle themselves. What they thought had been a few wilderness villages ripe to bring into the nation, had turned out to merely be the forward outposts of another country - one that had pushed back their armies and was preparing for invasion at the Eastern passes to the mountains.

-----

The threat of Ofal was nearly dealt with by Etroan fortifications. A new threat loomed over their trade partner and ally. Now was not the time to rest. It is now the revision phase. You have 1 Revision.

Spoiler: Prelimary Proposals (click to show/hide)

Designs
Tamin Orodruin: The Tamin Orodruin caldera, while it’s status as the center of the world is debated, is the cradle of metalworking - it’s resources and the easy access to heat helped Etroans develop the trade early, and they have improved on it in the time since.

Sunshard Spears: Bronze spears tipped with sharpened sunseeds, a weapon combining two unique factors of Etroa. It causes heavy burns where it pierces - and while it cauterizes the wounds such that bleeding out isn’t a worry, the pain can often be incapacitating all the same.
   -Maclimire Craftswords: Before they can take an apprenticeship, an Etroan blacksmith must first craft a Maclimire to be recognized as a master. The swords are much like their cousins, the sunshard spears, in how they use sunseeds to turn already bad wounds into lethal stabs, although a bit better in close range.

Etroan Water Purifiers: Devices used in the ritualistic cleansing of water. Effective at making water safe to drink, although used primarily for ritual rather than day to day use.

Lunguma, The Heavy Hand: A bronze apparatus worn on the arm and part of the body. Using the power of fairly high pressure and steam created by sunseeds and water, it drives a bronze piston with speed into whatever is in front of it. While too unwieldy for combat use despite the attempts of several youths, it allows combat engineers to rapidly build defenses given a couple hours.

Resources and Interactions
Sunseeds: Iridescent stones resembling opals, with fantastical properties focused around heat. When making contact with water, it rapidly heats up. Not much is known about it, but it surely has potential. This resource’s sphere is Heat.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Revision Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on January 09, 2020, 11:58:40 pm

Quote

The Angamolen of Damrod
Damrod, a famed smith whose Macilmire had been acclaimed the finest work of craftsmanship since the Elder Days, fought when his village was attacked by the Ofalians. The tale of his victory is too long to recount here, but in the end the enemy was defeated, and the smith was crippled. He had lost the use of one of his arms, and spent some weeks staring at his forge, unable to work. When a relief force reached his village, they brought with them an engineering group and one or more of the new steam hammer devices. Intrigued, Damrod worked with one of the former smith apprentices, who was a common soldier at the time, to work up a stationary form of the steam hammer, one that could be used in metalworking...one that could be used with only one hand.

An ancient equivalent of the modern power hammer, this new device made it dozens of times easier to hammer metal. Damrod began working with many, many more apprentices to design different shapes and styles of steam hammer to suit the needs of his rapidly growing ironworks. Pounding iron into wrought iron was revolutionized, allowing well-forged iron arms and armor, which is far more plentiful than the components of bronze and can be stronger if worked to near-pure wrought iron before being forged, to supplant bronze amongst the common soldiery. These early forays into iron metallurgy were not as strong as hammered bronze, but were cheaper, and more plentiful, and could thus be supplied to our allies as well as our own soldiers.

Eventually the Ironworks, a large complex of buildings constructed over an underground magma river, would become home to a wide assortment of these steam hammers, a secret jealously guarded by Damrod and his successors. Devices many times larger than the originals and situated over carefully sited vents to the river below would be used to pound great amounts of iron ore down into wrought iron, while smaller ones could be used by any smith to hasten the work of hammering metal to a rough shape. Damrod himself managed to produce a system of clamps and very small hammers that could be used for detail work, and it is sometimes claimed, erroneously we are sure, that his later crafts were superior to the ones made before he lost his arm.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Revision Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 10, 2020, 12:07:48 am

Heavy Hand Crossbow: While the bulk of the Lunguma made it an ineffective melee weapon, the action was perfectly capable of drawing back the strings of a large and powerful crossbow. A purpose made ring was added to a crossbow string, which would would line up with the piston of a Heavy Hand and be pushed down then caught by a trigger mechanism. A heavy bolt could then be aimed and fired while the piston was re-positioned, allowing for a relatively high rate of fire in addition to the incredible power offered by the steam piston. It should be capable of easily piercing enemy armor at impressive ranges, making it a good choice for defending positions fortified by our engineers.

With this new technology, the engineers we sent to assist our ally were capable of using their old tactics more effectively, either as combat engineers shooting targets themselves, as loaders for a string of Iconan crossbowmen, or later on as normal crossbowmen as our production of Lunguma ramped up.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Revision Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 10, 2020, 08:38:10 am

Steam Great Ballista

The Steam Great Balista used the newfound mechanics of the steam engine to turn a winch, which pulled the bowstring back. An arrow was loaded, and the Ballista fired, before the steam winch pulled the bowstring back again. It can be said to be the first Great Ballista in history. All it took was a tank of water(with a close-able lid to pour water into when empty), Sunseeds, a flywheel in a pipe, and some gears.

They fired bolts with tips of iron, and bolts with a chipped-sharp Sunshard inserted in the end. The first could go through an enemy army with easy, with the bolt being made of heavy woods giving it great power even when if shattered after going through the enemy ranks or spinning from a collision on the ground.

The second was used to set fire to grasslands. For despite looking like an opal, it was as strong as an emerald, even if it could be shattered easily with hard sharpened rocks. This made it a viable weapon for penetration purposes at least, though they were used carefully and rarely since they set grass aflame once shattered and cutting into the water in the grass.

They were placed in encampments, and set up on fields, and could easily be taken apart for transport on carts, with only the empty water tanks being particularly cumbersome.

---

The Creation of the Black Ceramic, and it's use in Lava Stratification

While rare, there are places where lava can be said to have driped down, forming crags. By opening these crags a bit, and putting a wooden pot filled with Sunseed heated water, the newly dripping lava can be made to solidify under high-temperature and high-energy conditions.

Said being the sunseed's energy lighting the boiling water, and sinking into the lava as it makes contact. This makes an extremely crystalline material that can be taken out once a good amount has been produced and crushed to powdered dust.

This dust is then mixed to form clay, molded, and then placed in the same sunseed-heated bath carefully, and has a lid placed over it.

This effectively bakes the clay into a high-grade ceramic capable of withstanding extremely high temperatures. It is even capable of being used to store lava with no heat issues. Which in turn allows the production of more of the clay which becomes ceramics.

This actually let us fill a pot full of lava, with Sunseeds at the bottom, and leave it for 5 days and nights. At the end of that, the lava has stratified into it's composite elements, including red iron that we can use to make more armor and weapons. And the various colored obsidian produced can be used for arrowheads, cutting knives, and crafts.

Modern Section.
The use of lava drops entering the high energy sunseed-boiled water produced ideal conditions to turn mafic lava into a high grade material for ceramics. The combination of iron, highly purified silica, and oxygen derivatives, created basalt that easily aerated the black clay created, and was removed as it was heated by the boiling water and sunseed's heat energy. This effectively removed all the air in the process, leaving what was called Black Ceramic and/or Obsidian Ceramic.

It was basically a combination of heat temperature synthesis, exotic energy deposition, and rapid heating. Long before those terms came to be known to most.

This Black Ceramic was show to be immune to the heat of lava, though very brittle and not prone to simple cracks. Shattering into many fine pieces would be a better description of what happened if you dropped the finished product. However, it's speckled pattern and geometric coloring made it adored by most.

Etroans used it to hold lava for five days and nights with sunseeds inside. The high oxygen content and higher heat triggered a reaction where the sunseeds kept the lava at it's current temperature. The more there were, the longer that temperature could be maintained. The lava sealed itself on the surface that had contact with air, but the rest of the lava stratified as it very slowly cooled. Until eventually, the oxygen level and/or heat was low enough for the reaction to end and the lava to finish cooling. Materials made this way were oxidized, so they even ended up with aluminium and titanium, though they didn't make use of it do to it's difficulty.

This source of iron was used to make many arms and armors, effectively outpacing the enemy's ability to attack. As battles continued, repairs needed to be done, but the Etroan nation and their allies had a near never-ending supply of iron and obsidian to use. Combined with their fortification abilities, this spelled the end for the invasion.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Revision Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on January 10, 2020, 01:09:06 pm

An alternative to the crossbow, which I believe to be too small to efficiently use the expensive and complex Lunguma, and the "Great Ballista", which doesn't use the method we just developed for pushing things. I am *really* not sure why it doesn't use the piston system directly.

Quote

Hadron Ondolin
The Lunguma was a little too expensive and hard to use to be widespread in our army, so instead we worked on an alternative means of employing it. The torsion-powered ballista, which stores energy in coils of rope, relies on a string being drawn backwards until it clips into a locking mechanism, and is a very common weapon in sieges and naval warfare. By adding a Lunguma to the bottom of the ballista and using a small peg and catch that sticks up through the bolt/stone/other projectile track in the middle of the main beam of the ballista (the one that points at the target and runs the length of the weapon), we can use a Lunguma to force back the string until it clicks into the trigger mechanism. The peg can then be folded down as the Lunguma is reset, while the bolt or stone (or clay pot of incendiaries or whatever we might have available) is loaded, and the ballista fired.

The use of a large Lunguma and steam power allow for much stronger ballistae to be fired without needing a much stronger set of soldiers to force back the string. More powerful ballistae can do more damage to enemy ships, put bigger holes in enemy formations, or do more severe damage to lightly constructed walls around smaller settlements. They also have longer range, an important advantage when fighting an enemy atop a city's walls, who have an intrinsic range advantage due to their height advantage.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Revision Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 12, 2020, 02:02:23 am

Quote from: It is just a reversion, lets vote

The Angamolen of Damrod: ()
Heavy Hand Crossbow: (1) Stirk
Steam Great Ballista: ()
The Creation of the Black Ceramic, and it's use in Lava Stratification: ()
Hadron Ondolin: ()

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Revision Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 12, 2020, 07:12:43 am

Quote from: Stirk on January 12, 2020, 02:02:23 am

Quote from: It is just a reversion, lets vote

The Angamolen of Damrod: ()
Heavy Hand Crossbow: (1) Stirk
The Creation of the Black Ceramic, and it's use in Lava Stratification: (1) TricMagic
Hadron Ondolin: (1) TricMagic

as per usual with me, either of them will do.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Revision Phase)
Post by: Failbird105 on January 12, 2020, 08:31:07 am

Quote from: It is just a reversion, lets vote

The Angamolen of Damrod: ()
Heavy Hand Crossbow: (1) Stirk
The Creation of the Black Ceramic, and it's use in Lava Stratification: (1) TricMagic
Hadron Ondolin: (2) TricMagic, Failbird

I'd typically doubt the ability for a ballista to be made in a revision from anything that wasn't already a ballista, but nobody else seems to so I'll go with it.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Revision Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on January 12, 2020, 10:56:03 am

Quote

The Angamolen of Damrod: (1) Madman
Heavy Hand Crossbow: (1) Stirk
The Creation of the Black Ceramic, and it's use in Lava Stratification: (1) TricMagic
Hadron Ondolin: (2) TricMagic, Failbird

Ballistae already exist, we're just applying our own unique twist to them.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Revision Phase)
Post by: Vostok on January 12, 2020, 11:46:35 am

Quote

The Angamolen of Damrod: (2) Madman, Vostok
Heavy Hand Crossbow: (1) Stirk
The Creation of the Black Ceramic, and it's use in Lava Stratification: (1) TricMagic
Hadron Ondolin: (2) TricMagic, Failbird

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Revision Phase)
Post by: Jilladilla on January 12, 2020, 12:48:47 pm

Quote

The Angamolen of Damrod: (3) Madman, Vostok, Jilladilla
Heavy Hand Crossbow: (1) Stirk
The Creation of the Black Ceramic, and it's use in Lava Stratification: (1) TricMagic
Hadron Ondolin: (2) TricMagic, Failbird

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Revision Phase)
Post by: Rockeater on January 12, 2020, 01:00:47 pm

Quote

The Angamolen of Damrod: (4) Madman, Vostok, Jilladilla, Rockeater
Heavy Hand Crossbow: (1) Stirk
The Creation of the Black Ceramic, and it's use in Lava Stratification: (1) TricMagic
Hadron Ondolin: (2) TricMagic, Failbird

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Revision Phase)
Post by: Twinwolf on January 18, 2020, 04:46:42 pm

Quote

The Angamolen of Damrod
Damrod, a famed smith whose Macilmire had been acclaimed the finest work of craftsmanship since the Elder Days, fought when his village was attacked by the Ofalians. The tale of his victory is too long to recount here, but in the end the enemy was defeated, and the smith was crippled. He had lost the use of one of his arms, and spent some weeks staring at his forge, unable to work. When a relief force reached his village, they brought with them an engineering group and one or more of the new steam hammer devices. Intrigued, Damrod worked with one of the former smith apprentices, who was a common soldier at the time, to work up a stationary form of the steam hammer, one that could be used in metalworking...one that could be used with only one hand.

An ancient equivalent of the modern power hammer, this new device made it dozens of times easier to hammer metal. Damrod began working with many, many more apprentices to design different shapes and styles of steam hammer to suit the needs of his rapidly growing ironworks. Pounding iron into wrought iron was revolutionized, allowing well-forged iron arms and armor, which is far more plentiful than the components of bronze and can be stronger if worked to near-pure wrought iron before being forged, to supplant bronze amongst the common soldiery. These early forays into iron metallurgy were not as strong as hammered bronze, but were cheaper, and more plentiful, and could thus be supplied to our allies as well as our own soldiers.

Eventually the Ironworks, a large complex of buildings constructed over an underground magma river, would become home to a wide assortment of these steam hammers, a secret jealously guarded by Damrod and his successors. Devices many times larger than the originals and situated over carefully sited vents to the river below would be used to pound great amounts of iron ore down into wrought iron, while smaller ones could be used by any smith to hasten the work of hammering metal to a rough shape. Damrod himself managed to produce a system of clamps and very small hammers that could be used for detail work, and it is sometimes claimed, erroneously we are sure, that his later crafts were superior to the ones made before he lost his arm.

Difficulty: Hard
Rolls: 4+3 - 1 = 6 (Average)

The clang of metal on metal rings through the Angamolen, and through Etroa. Damrod’s ironworks are one of the larger producers and workers of metal in Etroa, working iron and bronze into shapes fit for war and peace alike. Etroan troops had an abundance of metal equipment when needed, for armor or swords or arrows - and while the mass production was certainly not of quite the same quality as those crafted carefully by hand and the heavy hands of the ironworks needed to be supplemented by real smiths for finer work and finishing, they were still of better stuff than many other nations.

It would be needed. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175236.msg8077443#msg8077443)

While the Askian forces repelled the invasion of Ofal, Icona was protected The battle was fierce, and we had to use all we had to match them. Until this age, Etroa had largely been unchallenged - but no longer. It had met it’s real rival.

---

The Renaissance Era:

Centuries passed, and the world continued to turn. And skirmishes and wars with Askia were a major theme of them. While there were times of comparative peace, times where one side or the other had an advantage, never did they manage to conquer each other. Power waxed and waned, and the world changed, but Askia and Etroa have never really had good relations.

As the age of sail dawned, Etroa’s tradesmen ranged far, learning of new places and technologies. This decade’s conflict with Askia was a draw. Generally speaking, Etroa is prosperous, moreso than at many points in it’s history.

And so the world goes, things are about to change.

You have two designs this turn. The first prompt asks what military design characterized warfare for your nation in this period? The second prompt asks what design is associated with a major shift, political or cultural, in the country?


---

Spoiler: Prelimary Proposals (click to show/hide)

Designs
Tamin Orodruin: The Tamin Orodruin caldera, while it’s status as the center of the world is debated, is the cradle of metalworking - it’s resources and the easy access to heat helped Etroans develop the trade early, and they have improved on it in the time since.

Sunshard Spears: Bronze spears tipped with sharpened sunseeds, a weapon combining two unique factors of Etroa. It causes heavy burns where it pierces - and while it cauterizes the wounds such that bleeding out isn’t a worry, the pain can often be incapacitating all the same.
   -Maclimire Craftswords: Before they can take an apprenticeship, an Etroan blacksmith must first craft a Maclimire to be recognized as a master. The swords are much like their cousins, the sunshard spears, in how they use sunseeds to turn already bad wounds into lethal stabs, although a bit better in close range.

Etroan Water Purifiers: Devices used in the ritualistic cleansing of water. Effective at making water safe to drink, although used primarily for ritual rather than day to day use.

Lunguma, The Heavy Hand: A bronze apparatus worn on the arm and part of the body. Using the power of fairly high pressure and steam created by sunseeds and water, it drives a bronze piston with speed into whatever is in front of it. While too unwieldy for combat use despite the attempts of several youths, it allows combat engineers to rapidly build defenses given a couple hours.
   -The Angamolen of Damrod: A large ironworks created by the great smith Damrod after his invention of the Heavy Hand. Using similar technology, the forge would later be an example for others to follow, making it easier to forge large amounts of metal into usable shape.

Resources and Interactions
Sunseeds: Iridescent stones resembling opals, with fantastical properties focused around heat. When making contact with water, it rapidly heats up. Not much is known about it, but it surely has potential. This resource’s sphere is Heat.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 2 - Revision Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 18, 2020, 05:18:49 pm

We should probably raid Da Vinci's workshop.

Non-military design: Great Galleon.
With no room to expand on land, Etroans inevitably took to the seas. This allowed us to found overseas colonies, both founding peaceful settlements on virgin land and conquering foreigners. Before long Etroa was a mighty empire with fleets of ships carting cargo into port from across the globe. At this point in time the ship best showing our Naval tradition was the Great Galleon, large multi-decked ships capable of hauling and defending massive stores of cargo. Depending on the size, they would have three to four masts allowing them to run on wind power. Our fine craftsmanship not stopping at metal, each was finally made by highly skilled Etroan craftsman using advanced toolwork and high quality lumber. The expense in crafting these ships helped lead to the rise of trade guilds, which rose to power during this period. At the time, the largest and most powerful was the Blacksmith's guild, followed by the Craftsman's guild, with the Merchant guild in a close third. These three guilds became quite wealthy, sponsoring the arts and sciences in addition to creating wonderful works to show off their own craftsmanship. To this day, the Etroan Renaissance is lauded as a period of art and science. The ships themselves do not directly utilize sunstone, though the tools used to construct them often did. They run entirely on wind power. Each is armed with demi-culverin broadsides, though as armed merchant ships these were typically used to deter piracy rather than fight wars.

Military Design: Sunseedlock Musket
While the other nations were hitting flint against steel like cavemen, the brilliant Etroans came up with an advanced yet simple weapon loading system. A small steel bulb was placed on a cock above the pan of gunpowder. Water would be placed in the bulb, and a screw lid with a small bit of sunstone on the end would be screwed on the bulb. Thanks to fine Etroan engineering, the steam would be unable to escape. The amount of water was kept incredibly low to avoid having the bulb explode like a grenade. While one would expect the sunstone to heat up only to the temperature of steam, it was discovered that holding sun-stone in a small container with permanent connection to water causes it to continue heating to around 500 degrees centigrade. This was plenty hot enough to ignite Etroan gunpowder, allowing us to have a very reliable firing mechanism while everyone else was struggling with the concept. The bulb would slam into the pan, igniting the weapon, which would then immediately be cocked back by means of a special handle to prevent the pan from overheating. The cock was designed to minimize exposure to the soldiers, with a protective heat shield adding some weight to the weapon. Future scientist would discover that holding it in even smaller containers or increasing the amount of water would lead to even greater temperatures.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 18, 2020, 05:40:58 pm

Quote from: Stirk on January 18, 2020, 05:18:49 pm

We should probably raid Da Vinci's workshop.

+1

---

Non-military design: Moonseeds and the Steam Train

One thing that led the great renasiance was the discovery of moonseeds. During one skirmish with Askia over this decade, a deposite of sunseeds was left forgotten in the snowy peaks during a winter. As we all know, Sunseeds interact with water to boil. But snow is far more solid, and doesn't actually interact with it.

Eventually, a Etroan came across them during a scouting mission next summer. They looked like opals and were found with Etroan gear, but when they tried to actually use them, water turned to ice rather than steam.

They were brought back, and eventually it was discovered that leaving sunseeds in the snow turned them to moonseeds after a month of cold. While leaving moonseeds near lava's sweltering temepatures for a month turned them to sunseeds. Or just leaving them buried in a hot enough fire for a few hours.

In this manner, the first proper Steam Engine was created. While there were the steam-hammers before that, now a combination of a Moonseed where steam gathered, and a Sunseed where water rested. Together, these two created a compact steam engine with great water retention. It could continue to produce power for days steadily and continuously. And so they were used to turn the gears and wheels of the First Steam Train.

With the The Angamolen of Damrod and Lunguma, The Heavy Hand, tracks were set up. To the east trains ran to the Icona people, greatly improving their ability to travel and the transport of food and materials. This is also where, each winter, Sunseeds became Moonseeds. And to the west, we built our tracks to the many people beyond the Isthmus. Though expansion, trade, diplomacy, and sometimes a good war, we expanded the empire and brought their people and cultures into our own.

And so we entered a Cultural Renaissance, where travel was easy, trade plentiful. And peace secured by hammer and trade, or shard and war.


Military Design: Plasma Bomb Reaction

The Plasma Bomb Reaction was probably the first discovery towards true dominance. And one of the worst cases of destruction imaginable.

By mixing magnesium powder into sunseed powder, and then filling a shell with the result, we created a shell. When flung by a catapult or shot by a cannon, it didn't do much. But once hitting something and cracking, the air around it turned to plasma.

What actually happened was the mix actually triggering a chain reaction in which oxygen in the air was superheated. This was primarlily due to the combanation of kinetic impact with a surface, and the cracked shell letting an influx of air mix with the powder combination. Magnesium ignites, and the ignition ignites the Sunseed powder, which in turn ignites all the air around it until there is no oxygen left from the shockwave the plasma creation produced. Which turned out to be around 20 meters for a basic 3 foot shell. Larger shells tended to add 10 meters for every foot.

By using cannons, catapults & trebuchets, and sometimes bows, we mowed down our enemy with fire and plasma, busting apart fortifications and enemy lines. The bow in particular used a simple tin arrowhead casing filled with it, and always cracked on impact, generally removing whatever it hit as an issue.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on January 18, 2020, 07:39:18 pm

Quote from: Nazarov-Obdržálek Light Amplification System

Sunseed glass was first created sometime during the tenth century by a glassblower known as Ivan Nazarov, famous for finding inspiration for his work while under the influence. While drunk one day, he decided to try creating glassware with crushed sunseed added to the mixture, which resulted in a vase with an otherworldly glow to it, shining even in the dead of night. Lucky for him, this impressed the priest who commissioned the piece enough that he managed to avoid getting executed for heresy. This technique was then passed down through the Nazarov family for the next four hundred years, bringing great renown to his descendents, who used the technique in everything from vases to stained glass windows.

The first recorded use of sunseed glass for practical purposes was in 1570, when a brilliant young naval officer by the name of Jaroslav Obdržálek commissioned a set of marine telescope lenses made of the material from Aleksey Nazarov. It quickly became evident to Obdržálek that what he had was the world's first night vision telescope, and after some experimentation it was discovered that Sunseed Glass amplified the light passing through it. Seeing the potential of such a technology, he partnered with Aleksey to explore the use of sunseed glass in practical applications as soon as he left the military. Soon after, they patented a system of sunseed-glass light amplification known as NOLAS, or "Nazarov-Obdržálek Light Amplification System."

The first and most obvious use of NOLAS after night vision was to create a spotlight far brighter than what came before it by mounting several NOLAS lenses in series, adding a light source (parabolic mirror optional), and sticking the whole thing on either an artillery carriage or some other mounting mechanism that allowed it to be aimed at things. When used as part of a fortress or other fixed installation in conjunction with NOLAS-based night vision devices, this allowed Etroan defenders to flash-blind would-be attackers at nighttime and in some cases set things on fire, incapacitating the enemy and allowing our men to strike with impunity.
---
This wouldn't be figured out until much, much later, but the sunseed-glass reaction operates as a special case of blackbody radiation. Some of the incoming photons are absorbed by the sunseed glass, exciting the atoms within it, and is quickly re-radiated along the same path as electrons fall back to lower energy levels. Because of the special properties of the sunseed particles inside the glass, however, more photons are emitted than are absorbed, creating a light-amplification effect.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 18, 2020, 08:07:08 pm

Quote from: Vostok on January 18, 2020, 07:39:18 pm

Quote from: Nazarov-Obdržálek Light Amplification System

Sunseed glass was first created sometime during the tenth century by a glassblower known as Ivan Nazarov, famous for finding inspiration for his work while under the influence. While drunk one day, he decided to try creating glassware with crushed sunseed added to the mixture, which resulted in a vase with an otherworldly glow to it, shining even in the dead of night. Lucky for him, this impressed the priest who commissioned the piece enough that he managed to avoid getting executed for heresy. This technique was then passed down through the Nazarov family for the next four hundred years, bringing great renown to his descendents, who used the technique in everything from vases to stained glass windows.

The first recorded use of sunseed glass for practical purposes was in 1570, when a brilliant young naval officer by the name of Jaroslav Obdržálek commissioned a set of marine telescope lenses made of the material from Aleksey Nazarov. It quickly became evident to Obdržálek that what he had was the world's first night vision telescope, and after some experimentation it was discovered that Sunseed Glass amplified the light passing through it. Seeing the potential of such a technology, he partnered with Aleksey to explore the use of sunseed glass in practical applications as soon as he left the military. Soon after, they patented a system of sunseed-glass light amplification known as NOLAS, or "Nazarov-Obdržálek Light Amplification System."

The first and most obvious use of NOLAS after night vision was to create a spotlight far brighter than what came before it by mounting several NOLAS lenses in series, adding a light source (parabolic mirror optional), and sticking the whole thing on either an artillery carriage or some other mounting mechanism that allowed it to be aimed at things. When used as part of a fortress or other fixed installation in conjunction with NOLAS-based night vision devices, this allowed Etroan defenders to flash-blind would-be attackers at nighttime and in some cases set things on fire, incapacitating the enemy and allowing our men to strike with impunity.
---
This wouldn't be figured out until much, much later, but the sunseed-glass reaction operates as a special case of blackbody radiation. Some of the incoming photons are absorbed by the sunseed glass, exciting the atoms within it, and is quickly re-radiated along the same path as electrons fall back to lower energy levels. Because of the special properties of the sunseed particles inside the glass, however, more photons are emitted than are absorbed, creating a light-amplification effect.

>When used as part of a fortress or other fixed installation in conjunction with NOLAS-based night vision devices

Putting light amplification devices meant for nighttime use in front of your eyes then shining bright lights sounds like a good way to get your own men blinded.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on January 18, 2020, 08:13:59 pm

Quote from: Stirk on January 18, 2020, 08:07:08 pm

>When used as part of a fortress or other fixed installation in conjunction with NOLAS-based night vision devices

Putting light amplification devices meant for nighttime use in front of your eyes then shining bright lights sounds like a good way to get your own men blinded.

...that's why you don't use both at once? You use night vision to try and find people, point a big fucking spotlight at them to flash blind them and point them out to everybody and their mother after the guys with NVDs put the things away and then you start shooting.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 18, 2020, 08:25:25 pm

Quote from: Vostok on January 18, 2020, 08:13:59 pm

...that's why you don't use both at once? You use night vision to try and find people, point a big fucking spotlight at them to flash blind them and point them out to everybody and their mother after the guys with NVDs put the things away and then you start shooting.

Better hope your soldiers can hear the men in the back shouting "HEY GUYS I'M ABOUT TO TURN THIS ON TAKE OFF YOUR GOGGLES!" and follow the orders before getting themselves blinded then.

Edit: Honestly the spotlight seems like a waste in general. For the same amount of glass you could make a bunch of your NV goggles. For the same size and weight you could have an artillery piece. When put together you have a less-lethal weapon that is ineffective during the day, risks blinding your own people at night, and competes with effective heavy weapons. Even in the situation it works as described and we mainly use it to defend facilities, the enemy can avoid its effects by not attacking at night.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vivalas on January 18, 2020, 10:49:01 pm

+1 To moonseeds / steam train. The potential of having such a complete thermodynamic cycle with almost no fuel is too great to pass, if it works out.



Military Design: The Tulenov Steam-Clipper

The great oceans on both sides of the Etroan peninsula held great interest to early Etroan strategists, who devised a plan to develop a strong naval force with which to project power and base their strategic doctrines on.

The power of the sunseed was too great for the naval engineers employed by these strategic thinkers to pass up, and a young aspiring naval architect from the University of Etroa named Victor Tulenov devised a ship capable of harnessing the power of the sunseed to propel itself at speeds far greater than that of sail or the ruminants of early forays into naval steam propulsion.

The first prototype Tulenov Steam-Clipper was a wooden craft, light as to save weight for maximum maneuverability. The craft had a water intake at its front which lead into the main mechanism of the craft, the Double-Bypass Sunic Converter. (Sunic, being the new engineering shorthand for sunseeds that had developed among the burgeoning academia of the Etroan Renaissance.) The device gorged itself on water as the clipper gained speed, before entering a proto-turbine of sorts that funneled the quickly moving water into a flashbox of sunseeds that quickly heated it to steam. The next phase in the Sunic Converter was a manifold that directed steam back through the intake to act as a vaccuum of sorts, to increase water consumption and flow into the converter, and a shunt that directed the steam through a crude early turbine system that drove a screw in the back of the craft. Despite its rather complex method of function, the converter had no moving parts other than the turbine blades and shaft which directly connected to the screw. Early designs were rumored to get as fast as 25 knots on test runs, and the design very quickly pleased the infantile Etroan admiralty, who devsied ways to militarize the design and use it to gain command of the seas through quick-swarm and hit-and-run naval tactics.

The craft was equipped with sails as well to gain the speed needed to switch to converter propulsion, which limited the efficiency of the design, and the hull was largely that of a catamaran design that minimized cross-section in the water and allowed the intake to function as a scoop rather than a full feature of the hull. Because of the double-bypass nature of the converter, the ship gained more and more thrust as it gained more speed, scaling even moreso than drag as it gained speed, but at a certain point the turbulence within the converter system rapidly decreased the gain until a max speed was reached (In an effect similar to that of stalling in modern aeroplanes, where angle-of-attack can only be increased so much until lift is lost). Later designs would improve upon the process and increase the max speed of the Tulenov Sunic Converter, but the design was still very impressive nontheless.


EDIT: The double-bypass concept is based on edjuctor-jets, which use very fast moving liquids to create a suction of sorts, as described here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injector

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 18, 2020, 11:34:10 pm

Quote from: Since the New Guy Already Voted, Lets get the Box Up

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: ()
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: ()
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()

Civilian:
Great Galleon: ()
Moonseeds and the Steam Train: (1) Vivalas

Military Design: Sunic Cartridge
As materials advanced across the ages, the impressive ability of sun-stone to explode any human it managed to enter became less and less relevant as new armor conspired to prevent the rock from eliminating its target. Fortunately, those same advances in materials came up with a solution! Etroan alchemist had, in attempt to turn the base metal into gold, combined crushed sunseed into molten lead creating a material known as Sunic Lead. Sunic Lead is pyrophoric and flammable, a strong enough impact causes it to release heat and ignite (helpfully igniting anything in contact with it). It is also "Self-sharpening", impact with a hard object causes it to fracture in a way that retains an edge thanks to the sunseed fragments layout. With this material, the alchemist had ironically struck gold - centuries later it would be the choice round for Etroan musketmen. It would easily pierce even the greatest plate armor, set alight the mightiest of ships, and send any cowards who dare face the might of Etroa running for the hills.

In short, it is not-Depleted Uranium.

With this development allowing firearms to become much more common than in many foreign lands, Etroa tended to be on the cutting edge of gun development. While their ammunition retained the ball shape popular at the time, they developed a paper cartridge to allow for faster rates of fire and to give the powder some amount of water resistance. There would be two compartments made out of paper, one with a Sunic Lead ball and another with the powder charge. The end of the cartridge would be bit open to allow for some powder to be placed on the pan while the rest of the powder would be poured down the barrel, followed by the remaining paper and the ball (with the helpful assistance of a rod). Our now-loaded firearm could then be fired, the Sunic Round igniting whatever target is unfortunate enough to be in its sights.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on January 19, 2020, 12:49:21 am

Quote from: Since the New Guy Already Voted, Lets get the Box Up

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: ()
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: (1): Vostok
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()

Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Vostok
Moonseeds and the Steam Train: (1) Vivalas

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 19, 2020, 02:00:27 am

Quote from: Since the New Guy Already Voted, Lets get the Box Up

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: ()
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: (1): Vostok
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge: (1) Stirk
Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Vostok
Moonseeds and the Steam Train: (1) Vivalas

I like the Steam Engine ideas, but I think we are a bit too early to implement them (Twin's comment was that we might get a single train rather than a train route). We 100% need to get moonstone at some point. I am also in love with using Sunic for sunseed things. I'll wait until we get more civilian ideas before picking any of them.

We should probably pick out a government system at some point, from the sound of it Askia has some fancy background organizations (Soldier Priests, Warrior-Sorcerers, etc). Making our own is probably a good choice, since we've mostly been focusing on things instead of people. I tried my hand at it with the guilds, to fit into the craftsman angle we've been playing. If we want to have a royal family, this would be a good time for it to be introduced. If we want to have a major religion, this is a good time for a reformation. We have three Design Phases left and have to remember we arn't designing a bunch of weapons, we are designing Etroa.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vivalas on January 19, 2020, 02:10:27 am

Quote from: Stirk on January 19, 2020, 02:00:27 am

We have three Design Phases left and have to remember we arn't designing a bunch of weapons, we are designing Etroa.

You raise a good point. We should probably focus on the type of social and cultural stuff that we can't really change as easily once we're in the shorter timeframe of the war. Although maybe that's what the military / civ split is all about.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 19, 2020, 02:27:31 am

Quote from: Vivalas on January 19, 2020, 02:10:27 am

Quote from: Stirk on January 19, 2020, 02:00:27 am

We have three Design Phases left and have to remember we arn't designing a bunch of weapons, we are designing Etroa.

You raise a good point. We should probably focus on the type of social and cultural stuff that we can't really change as easily once we're in the shorter timeframe of the war. Although maybe that's what the military / civ split is all about.

And so I'm not just telling people to do things, here is another input that we can somehow force into whatever we need!

Etroa had long been led by a council of nobles, one from each major city and arbitrarily sized large portion of rural land. In theory they have roughly equal amounts of power, each with a single vote on council matters. In practice the power switched between several different families as each traded favors, threats, bribes, and other standard political persuasions. Each ten years a Council Head was chosen from among the Councilors, acting as the "King" or "Emperor" for the remainder of their reign. In practice the position was often for life, a new Council Head being chosen meant that the internal Etroan politics was shifting.

During the Renaissance era, the rise of guilds meant that a new wealthy class of non-nobles had begun to form. Guild's internal structure varied from guild to guild, often either being lead by the founder and their descendants or a council similar to that ruling the nation. Not content to confining themselves to inter-guild politics, many of the more powerful guilds took to buying the Councilor's votes outright giving them a parcel of political power. Eventually this lead to many of the nobles, blue in blood but in the red in the bank, to sell their positions outright. Those guilds that could afford it then received the legal right to vote on Council matters, effectively giving them legal control over a large potion of the nation.

With this setup, we can then shift into Guild control or expand the voting rules to make a Republic without having to have a bloody internal revolution!
...Now we just have to find out how to put all that into a design and or revision!

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 19, 2020, 08:13:41 am

Quote from: Stirk on January 19, 2020, 02:00:27 am

Quote from: Since the New Guy Already Voted, Lets get the Box Up

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: ()
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: (1): Vostok
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge: (1) Stirk
Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Vostok
Moonseeds and the Steam Train: (1) Vivalas, TricMagic

I like the Steam Engine ideas, but I think we are a bit too early to implement them (Twin's comment was that we might get a single train rather than a train route). We 100% need to get moonstone at some point. I am also in love with using Sunic for sunseed things. I'll wait until we get more civilian ideas before picking any of them.

We should probably pick out a government system at some point, from the sound of it Askia has some fancy background organizations (Soldier Priests, Warrior-Sorcerers, etc). Making our own is probably a good choice, since we've mostly been focusing on things instead of people. I tried my hand at it with the guilds, to fit into the craftsman angle we've been playing. If we want to have a royal family, this would be a good time for it to be introduced. If we want to have a major religion, this is a good time for a reformation. We have three Design Phases left and have to remember we arn't designing a bunch of weapons, we are designing Etroa.

1350-1600, right now, I think.. First steam train was 1803.

Major differences. First, we already made a prototype many years before in the steam hammer. That same steam hammer and the revision we did means we can place rails pretty quick, hopefully. Second is that while it may take a while for them to spread, they can do so. And the third is the Sunseed/Moonseed. Normally for steam engines, you need heat and water. Sunseeds handle the heat, and Moonseeds recycle the steam, and Etroan Craftsmanship makes sure there are no problems with the actual mechanics, hopefully. We did make a steam powered hammer early on after all.

I'll come up with a ship in a bit for military. though honestly, we seem to lean toward military expansion as well as trade expansion...

---

Military design.
Note this is, probably not practical.

One man spent years studdying gears, pipes and pistons, steam power. And at the end of it all, they decided to use wood and metal to build a giant puppet. With bones of tree logs reinforced with metal bands, and sockets for moving arms and legs. Atop this existed gears and pulleys, all connected to the central chest. And they finished a giant puppet 30 feet tall by armoring those sections with wood and leather.

But for power. When moonseeds were discovered, they immediately used that to build a head, which once running would continually turn gears. In the torso, a driver had a glass view outside, covered with woven mesh. And from there, they could control the pulleys with levers to move the arms and legs bit by bit. And so, this giant puppet took it's first steps into history.


It took up a club and tore apart fortifications and armies alike. Ever advancing. Wherever the Norsa vardarianna puppet went, it left a hole in battlefields. It was eventually replaced once it became too old to be maintained, but each one served as a powerful force for Etroan expansion wars.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vivalas on January 19, 2020, 02:13:31 pm

I was thinking about the whole moonseed thing, and, well..

For an engine to work you just need a constant thermal gradient. This can be accomplished by either adding or removing energy, which both the sunseed and moonseed can do on their own. You could build a steam engine with either or, just with moonseeds it's a lot more efficient.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 19, 2020, 02:58:12 pm

What sort of engine even runs off entropy?

Moonseeds make the water colder, turning steam to water, and water to ice, eventually. Sunseeds turn water to steam, meanwhile.


I mean, the only case is a Cold Fusion scenario, that I can think of off the top of my head. Though Cold Fission would also work, maybe? Not that I have a clear idea of it other than being related to lowering temperatures rather than raising them.


If energy is removed from a reaction, nothing mechanical will occur. This effectively renders such a method pointless for mechanical energy. And in a steam Engine, what would you replace the Sunseeds with to make steam? Or do you have something that would only require Moonseeds.

Either way, it's playing with thermodynamics, rather than just relying on heat and heat leeching that the two already can do.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vivalas on January 19, 2020, 05:50:02 pm

It's not a reaction, but a process. If you remove energy, you create an area of lower temperature where heat will flow. Creating an energy 'void' of sorts (a moonseed), would cause heat to flow towards that void, in the same way that an energy source (a sunseed), would create a gradient towards the atmosphere. If you're using a moonseed to power a mechanical process, you're using the atmospheric ambient temperature to draw energy from, otherwise you're using a sunseed, which will create a gradient towards the atmosphere (and the energy comes from the sunseed).

Theoretically, anyways, if a moonseed cooled to absolute zero, it would be just as efficient as if you had a sunseed that went to 400K or so. The configuration of the engine would be slightly different, but there's not much difference in using a heat source with the atmosphere serving the part of rejecting heat, or using the atmosphere as a heat source and rejecting heat to the moonseed.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on January 19, 2020, 05:51:33 pm

Quote from: Stirk on January 18, 2020, 11:34:10 pm

Military Design: Sunic Cartridge
As materials advanced across the ages, the impressive ability of sun-stone to explode any human it managed to enter became less and less relevant as new armor conspired to prevent the rock from eliminating its target. Fortunately, those same advances in materials came up with a solution! Etroan alchemist had, in attempt to turn the base metal into gold, combined crushed sunseed into molten lead creating a material known as Sunic Lead. Sunic Lead is pyrophoric and flammable, a strong enough impact causes it to release heat and ignite (helpfully igniting anything in contact with it). It is also "Self-sharpening", impact with a hard object causes it to fracture in a way that retains an edge thanks to the sunseed fragments layout. With this material, the alchemist had ironically struck gold - centuries later it would be the choice round for Etroan musketmen. It would easily pierce even the greatest plate armor, set alight the mightiest of ships, and send any cowards who dare face the might of Etroa running for the hills.

In short, it is not-Depleted Uranium.

With this development allowing firearms to become much more common than in many foreign lands, Etroa tended to be on the cutting edge of gun development. While their ammunition retained the ball shape popular at the time, they developed a paper cartridge to allow for faster rates of fire and to give the powder some amount of water resistance. There would be two compartments made out of paper, one with a Sunic Lead ball and another with the powder charge. The end of the cartridge would be bit open to allow for some powder to be placed on the pan while the rest of the powder would be poured down the barrel, followed by the remaining paper and the ball (with the helpful assistance of a rod). Our now-loaded firearm could then be fired, the Sunic Round igniting whatever target is unfortunate enough to be in its sights.

As I said in the Discord, I personally think the Sunic Round is a waste of a design action. It's a good idea, but it's more of a revision thing, both because of its relatively limited scope and because it can likely fall under "bring an earlier design into the present era," considering how it's more or less a successor to "put sunseeds in spearheads and boil people alive when you poke them."

Quote from: TricMagic on January 19, 2020, 02:58:12 pm

What sort of engine even runs off entropy?

Heat engines in general depend on a spontaneous exothermic reaction, yes.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vivalas on January 19, 2020, 07:38:18 pm

I mean, combustion engines for one run on entropy. They work by igniting a gas while the cylinder is in its upmost position, and then entropy (or the tendency for the gas to want to expand to its greatest volume and therefore greatest disorder) causes the piston to be pushed downwards.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on January 19, 2020, 08:09:32 pm

Remember that there are many ways of describing how one thing "works" in terms of basic physics principles, so you, Vivalas, might very well be saying the exact same thing that Vostok is saying.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Rockeater on January 20, 2020, 01:58:41 pm

Quote from: Since the New Guy Already Voted, Lets get the Box Up

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: ()
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: (1): Vostok
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge: (2) Stirk, Rockeater
Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Vostok
Moonseeds and the Steam Train: (3) Vivalas, TricMagic, Rockeater

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 20, 2020, 02:15:57 pm

Quote from: Since the New Guy Already Voted, Lets get the Box Up

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: ()
Plasma Bomb Reaction: (1) TricMagic
NOLAS: (1): Vostok
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge: (2) Stirk, Rockeater

Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Vostok
Moonseeds and the Steam Train: (3) Vivalas, TricMagic, Rockeater

We will also need votes on the military design too.

Something found in our lands would likely be these. Fourth most common element on Earth. Though there is the rather obvious possibility it will just go up in flames as a disaster.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/CSIRO_ScienceImage_2893_Crystalised_magnesium.jpg/800px-CSIRO_ScienceImage_2893_Crystalised_magnesium.jpg) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium)

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 20, 2020, 03:14:08 pm

Quote from: Since the New Guy Already Voted, Lets get the Box Up

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: ()
Plasma Bomb Reaction: (1) TricMagic
NOLAS: (1): Vostok
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge: (2) Stirk, Rockeater

Civilian:
Great Galleon: (2) Vostok, Stirk
Moonseeds and the Steam Train: (3) Vivalas, TricMagic, Rockeater

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on January 20, 2020, 04:10:15 pm

Quote from: Nazarov-Obdržálek Light Amplification System, bis

Sunseed glass was first created sometime during the tenth century by a glassblower known as Ivan Nazarov, famous for finding inspiration for his work while under the influence. While drunk one day, he decided to try creating glassware with crushed sunseed added to the mixture, which resulted in a vase with an otherworldly glow to it, shining even in the dead of night. Lucky for him, this impressed the priest who commissioned the piece enough that he managed to avoid getting executed for heresy. This technique was then passed down through the Nazarov family for the next four hundred years, bringing great renown to his descendents, who used the technique in everything from vases to stained glass windows.

The first recorded use of sunseed glass for practical purposes was in 1570, when a brilliant young naval officer by the name of Jaroslav Obdržálek commissioned a set of marine telescope lenses made of the material from Aleksey Nazarov. It quickly became evident to Obdržálek that what he had was the world's first night vision telescope, and after some experimentation it was discovered that Sunseed Glass amplified the light passing through it. Seeing the potential of such a technology, he partnered with Aleksey to explore the use of sunseed glass in practical applications as soon as he left the military. Soon after, they patented a system of sunseed-glass light amplification known as NOLAS, or "Nazarov-Obdržálek Light Amplification System."

The first and most obvious use of NOLAS after night vision was to create a spotlight far brighter than what came before it by mounting several NOLAS lenses in series, adding a light source (parabolic mirror optional), and sticking the whole thing on either an artillery carriage or some other mounting mechanism that allowed it to be pointed at things. This basic idea was used in everything from military searchlights (good for disorienting the enemy and/or burning some retinas when used as part of a defensive installation, sometimes capable of lighting things on fire given the right settings) to optical telegraphy to experimental stage lighting for theater productions once the cost went down enough.
---
This wouldn't be figured out until much, much later, but the sunseed-glass reaction operates as a special case of blackbody radiation. Some of the incoming photons are absorbed by the sunseed glass, exciting the atoms within it, and is quickly re-radiated along the same path as electrons fall back to lower energy levels. Because of the special properties of the sunseed particles inside the glass, however, more photons are emitted than are absorbed, creating a light-amplification effect.

Quote from: Since the New Guy Already Voted, Lets get the Box Up

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: ()
Plasma Bomb Reaction: (1) TricMagic
NOLAS: ()
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge: (3) Stirk, Rockeater, Vostok

Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Stirk
NOLAS, bis: (1) Vostok
Moonseeds and the Steam Train: (3) Vivalas, TricMagic, Rockeater

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 20, 2020, 04:32:22 pm

Quote from: Since the New Guy Already Voted, Lets get the Box Up

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: ()
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: (1) TricMagic
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge: (3) Stirk, Rockeater, Vostok

Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Stirk
NOLAS, bis: (1) Vostok
Moonseeds and the Steam Train: (3) Vivalas, TricMagic, Rockeater

Vacuum Tubes and skill in making glass going way back. Enough to convince me to do it for the military one.

---

Hae raht- The Steam Paddleboat

Hae raht- The Steam Paddleboat. Where the rest of the world entered the age of sails, Etroa entered the age of Steam. With greater access to materials, and techniques from afar, Mad Rúatan and Tric Ingóle worked together. Utilizing ancient designs long since discarded, they saw the potential of a ship that traveled perpetually.

In this, Mad Rúatan designed the ship, and Tric Ingóle the propulsion.

Taking wood, they designed the first screw pipe. These pipes were carved with metal to have grooves, which slotted together. They then made a chamber of wood and metal, and placed cut sunshards in it before closing it with a top, carved with tubes sticking out the top, those tubes having a screw carved into their outer section. Then, more pipes were screwed on, inner carvings fitted onto the outer carving, and sticky rubber glues made from the Rubber Tree used to seal it tight.

Leading from the top of this chamber, the pipes led to the first bit of metal. A fan-wheel stationed inside a chamber. It's shaft moving into the container's wall was sealed as best it could, and had a large gear attached at the other end outside.

As the would steam rise, it would pass the fan-wheel, turning it's blades from the immense pressure being produced by the sunshard boiled water.

This steam continued on into the upper pipe on the other side, before curving back around. Here, the recent discovery of moonseeds, which could be made by leaving a sunseed buried in very cold conditions, made it's appearance. Moonseed inset into a wooden cage. Here, the steam ended it's journey. In this container, mirroring the sun chamber, the steam gathered and condensed into clouds which then rained down the holeat it's bottom. For the hole the steam entered was from the side.

Down it fell, past other small moonshard fragments inset into the pipes, before bottoming out, flowing into the Sun Chamber from the side like a waterfall.


During normal operation, steam produced would flow into the pipe leading up and to the side pipe. However, the moonshard fragments rendered that side journey impossible. It would cool and freeze long before reaching the Moon Chamber that way. And in this manner, there was a cross-pipe. This cross-pipe led off not to the Sun or Moon chamber, but outside. Normally closed off during operation to maintain high, continual pressure in the system, when the metal and rubber caps was opened up, one can pour a large amount of water inside. By using sea water purified by sunseeds, one could fill the Boiler. And at the bottom of the path the water would normally flow before entering the Sun Chamber was another cap on a small subsection cross-pipe. Opening this one would let the water spill out before reaching the Sun Chamber.


It is the world's first Boiler. We have neglected to descirbe what it turns though. The gear is directly connected to a number of other gears. Which lead to one final gear. And this gear, a masterwork of Etroan Engineering, would be connected to a huge paddle outside, spanning the rear of a ship.

The Boiler is right next to the Paddle. And this paddle turns continuously and steadily. The more water is used in the Boiler, the faster it spins, and the quicker the attached boat moves.

When not active, a single gear has a attached pole one can use to remove it, which cuts off the connection between boiler and paddle.


In this manner, along with rudders, a boat that requires neither winds nor current to travel at a steady pace across seas and rivers.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on January 20, 2020, 06:02:13 pm

Quote

Public Sanitation (Sorry it's a lame name I know)
Some simple applications of steam power include moving things, like water. A simple application of steam-powered hand tools is construction. Combined, Etroa produced networks of amazing public works in every city, town, and even most villages. Aqueducts bring water into cities and networks of sewers with Sunseed steam-powered screw pumps allowed for water to move through the sewers at a good speed, carrying waste away from the cities. Baths supplied by aqueduct water and warmed with Sunseeds provided a level of public sanitation beyond most people of the time, allowing Etroa to weather several small outbreaks of dangerous disease with far less harm than other nations.

The improvements in sanitation and, more importantly, legacy of large-scale public works stemming from the early invention of the steam tool, propelled Renaissance Etroa to the forefront of the world in population and in cleanliness. Visiting an Etroan city was not, unlike many such cities, an exercise in dealing with horrible smells.

Quote from: Since the New Guy Already Voted, Lets get the Box Up

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: ()
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: (1) TricMagic
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge: (4) Stirk, Rockeater, Vostok, Madman

Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Stirk
NOLAS, bis: (1) Vostok
Moonseeds and the Steam Train: (3) Vivalas, TricMagic, Rockeater
Public Sanitation: (1) Madman

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 20, 2020, 07:19:12 pm

Quote from: Since the New Guy Already Voted, Lets get the Box Up

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: ()
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: ()
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge: (4) Stirk, Rockeater, Vostok, Madman
Sun Rounds: (1) TricMagic

Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Stirk
NOLAS, bis: (1) Vostok
Moonseeds and the Steam Train: (3) Vivalas, TricMagic, Rockeater Veto by GM
Public Sanitation: (2) Madman, TricMagic

I am a bit pained that heat has lost again.. Hua... It does not help I can see it, at all.

Well, back to the drawing board.

Sun Round

With the introduction of guns to Etroa, naturally we made some great guns with our craftmenship for their time. We also took to trying to use sunshards as bullets. It kinda went badly.

Normally, we don't get this kinda force applied to sunseeds OR the sunshard arrows that got made during that one war. However, when you make a bullet out of a sunseed, and that sunshard bullet hits something it can't pierce through and blow up in steam explosion, the entire thing shatters.

At which point, a super hot white fireball appears from where it broke. That fireball also takes everything around it with it, leaving naught but charred husks and slag left, if that. Not even a stray fire. Everything just burns cleanly and quickly.

Also, we kinda didn't take proper precautions and the shooter Savage ended up way too close. He's fine, but missing his eyebrows. And hair.

Well, Sun Rounds are still a dangerous but welcome addition to Etroan armories regardless. Since they are crystal balls they at least won't get diverted by the Askians.


Reaction: Trigger- Sufficient Kinetic Energy to cause shattering to dust. Effect is determined by volume of sunseed/shard consumed, along with kinetic force imparted. Greater Volume/Force= wider effect. Strength is capped up to Vaporize as all the Sun's energy in that piece is released at once around it, almost seeming to form a miniature star.(note not an actual star, just enough heat to literally be white)

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 21, 2020, 02:38:05 pm

Military Design: Sunic Cartridge (Nerfed)
As materials advanced across the ages, the impressive ability of sun-stone to "explode" any human it managed to enter became less and less relevant as new armor conspired to prevent the rock from eliminating its target. Fortunately, those same advances in materials came up with a solution! Etroan alchemist had, in attempt to turn the base metal into gold, combined crushed sunseed into molten lead creating a material known as Sunic Lead. Sunic Lead is pyrophoric and flammable, a strong enough impact causes it to release impressive amounts of heat and ignite (helpfully igniting anything in contact with it). With this material, the alchemist had ironically struck gold - centuries later it would be the choice round for Etroan musketmen. This incendiary round would easily defeat even the greatest plate armor, set alight the mightiest of ships, and send any cowards who dare face the might of Etroa running for the hills.

With this development allowing firearms to become much more common than in many foreign lands, Etroa tended to be on the cutting edge of gun development. They developed a paper cartridge to allow for faster rates of fire and to give the powder some amount of water resistance. There would be two compartments made out of paper, one with a Sunic Lead ball and another with the powder charge. The end of the cartridge would be bit open to allow for some powder to be placed on the pan while the rest of the powder would be poured down the barrel, followed by the remaining paper and the ball (with the helpful assistance of a rod). Our now-loaded firearm could then be fired, the Sunic Round igniting whatever target is unfortunate enough to be in its sights.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 21, 2020, 03:38:46 pm

Spoiler: N/A (click to show/hide)

Military: Lossgale Sapphires + Thul Shift

Found in the high mountain peaks by our neighbors, Lossgale Sapphires govern State Changes. Put simply, when they were first struck by a pickaxe they caused a change in the stone they were in, liquefying it without heat being given off, allowing the Sapphire to be extracted..

Modern studies have shown they have a number of uses, with the most common in the Renaissance Era had them used to change the direction of winds and call up a gale from still air. The Thul Shift, a staff studded with Lossgale, could direct the winds to move when swung. And so they were used for wind dances to direct the air around sailing ships for miles around, a Tailwind propelling their Galleons at high speeds to strike at their foes and steal from ships and towns. Moreover, they were also used to completely stall other sailing ships in their sight.

While the age of Sail dawned, all learned to either make treaty with Etroa, or have their ships hunted down to be absorbed into their Empire. However, they were also used to dominate the trade markets economically. Overall, it greatly boosted Etroan Power at the time.

Quote

Lossgale Saphires happen to govern States of Matter. Put simply, they are very good at completely ignoring normal laws, turning solid to liquid or gas, or vice versa. While solids don't normally move, Lossgale Saphires can manipulate liquids and gases to cause movement. How this occurs is not truly understood, but the Thul Shift combined the movements of the user in accordance with which way the air was to flow, while seeming to almost read the will of the one who used it. More modern terms would be it receiving the imprint of the creator, and working at the will of the user. In other words, it read the nervous system and brain waves to be programmed to act that way during it's creation. And this is also how it could be directed by a user without any real understanding of physics and sciences.

Lossgale Sapphires look almost a clear blue, and glow with green light when active.

---

Skytear Sunswords
among other weapons made by master blacksmiths

Out on the oceans bottom, where tests were being performs for ships made using Sunseeds to power them,(which were failing rather badly), a metal piece fell into the ocean. It sank like a particularly sharp rock before colliding with a boulder. The metal cracked, and sunseeds spilled out before the ended up creating a hot spot.

This admittedly repeated a few times. More ended up in the seashore before the project was abandoned. However, finally the black earth of the seabed began to crack, and what should come up but rocks, rocketing to the surface after having been buried in the earth for millennia.

They came up and up, and entered the sky, before crashing down in our lands. A strange phenomenon, which found that this material become extremely light once it became hot enough, as noticed by the next day the sun ended up starting to lift the things again.

Etroa secured this resource and found more buried on the shorelines. Difficulty to get to, and prone to being blown along with the wind when warm. However, when forged, it's color changed and became extremely light. And once cooled it became hard again, if silvery now.

There was much experimenting with this rock, called Skytears for undoubtedly having fallen from heaven at some point in the distant past. And we created a devastating weapon with it and sunseeds.

Skytears, when used in a folded sword, was extremely heavy. However, by embedding sunseeds into it while it was soft and light during forging,  parts of it would be lighter than air. This created a new weapon type that was extremely powerful when swung thanks to it's heavy dense edges, but could be wielded normally thanks to a light center. And the Sunseeds still performed their role in boiling the enemy alive. Moreover, these Skytears would eventually prove to be completely non-magnetic, only being a very strange stone material that could be played with to create masterpieces of weaponry like Maces, Picks, and Buster Swords, among other things.

---

Military: Rúm & the Protection of Eld

We came across a new people and ended up managing to join them to us. The forest country of Eld has long since made use of something they call Rúm, a silver liquid that seeps into objects and changes them. They first used this to guide the trees to grow in certain ways, and to lighten themselves to climb the tall trees away from their foes. Later times saw them apply it to stone and wood weapons to greatly increase their weight and power in combat, and their longbows allowed them great mobility and advantages against their invaders over the years..

However, with the Renaissance, their isolationist times have finally been forced to come to an end by their northern neighbors seeking the wood and animals of the great redwood forest to build their sailing ships. Having come to us, we drove them back with the Rúm made available to us, with more promised, in exchange for leaving their forest be.

Put simply, Rúm can be used to lighten or increase the density of an object, it's weight. Light as air, if not lighter, or heavy as stone and iron, and just as tough.

The main advancement of having Rúm for Etroa as a whole was in metal working. Primarily by adding it to the metals forged in The Angamolen of Damrod during the forging process, metals could be made lightweight, airy, heavy, strong, dense. It greatly boosted the ability to forge strong arms, and the use of Rúm in bullets in particular created a heavy and dense bullet that could pierce most armors of the time.

Later times would eventually come to learn that Rúm was distilled from the sap of the Silver Weirwood Tree which grew in the forests to a height of 30 feet, in comparison to the redwoods which grew far slower and bigger. Their lightness also came to be from applying it to their leather armor and most of their gear, allowing them to hop between the trees upward. No, they didn't tell us how they got it to that level of lightness in leather, we tend to work in metal.

Quote

Rúm seeps into the structure of objects, and is liquid. It's boiling and freezing points have not been discovered however. Objects can usually only hold a certain amount of Rúm, at which point, it no longer absorbs. Once Rúm has entered something, it doesn't leave. This has lead to a few deaths on it's own due to health problems.

How Rúm is Processed affects the end result of it. Taking the sap and letting it cool over nights would lead to Rúm that makes materials denser. Boiling it over a fire until the water in the pot evaporates creates something that makes an object less dense once absorbed.


Rúm's Sphere happens to be Material Density. That is, manipulating Density of materials. Generally, Denser things either change material form, or require more of that material for the same volume as lighter ones. Though this may not always hold true for all interactions of Rúm.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on January 21, 2020, 07:13:16 pm

Quote from: TricMagic on January 20, 2020, 07:19:12 pm

Quote from: Since the New Guy Already Voted, Lets get the Box Up

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: ()
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: ()
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge: (3) Stirk, Rockeater, Madman
Sun Rounds: (2) TricMagic, Vostok

Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Stirk
NOLAS, bis: ()
Moonseeds and the Steam Train: (3) Vivalas, TricMagic, Rockeater Veto by GM
Public Sanitation: (3) Madman, TricMagic, Vostok

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 21, 2020, 07:39:40 pm

Quote from: Since the New Guy Already Voted, Lets get the Box Up

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: ()
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: ()
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge: (3) Stirk, Rockeater, Madman  (Note, Vetoed by GM)
Sun Rounds: (1)  Vostok
Sunic Cartridges(Nerfed): ()
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: (1) TricMagic

Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Stirk
NOLAS, bis: ()
Moonseeds and the Steam Train: (3) Vivalas, TricMagic, Rockeater Veto by GM
Public Sanitation: (3) Madman, TricMagic, Vostok

Quote from: Eld Lore

Eld, while known by most to be isolationist, do export some goods in exchange for imports they themselves cannot make or gather, with one thing they import being salt. Of these, the drink known as Chief Morgan's Rum is particularly popular as an alcoholic beverage export. It is said it is named after their first chief for leading his society against the invaders of the time.

They also export specialty tree seeds, redwood, and vegetables. And rarely exotic fruit, if you want it. Though sugar is their most popular export, if low in quantity. They guard it's secrets fiercely.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Jilladilla on January 21, 2020, 07:46:55 pm

It's a practical design and I really like the fluff about it, Tric's Rúm design.
Given Twinwolf's comments in Discord, mayhaps emphasize the engineering parts of the Public Sanitation design?

Quote from: Since the New Guy Already Voted, Lets get the Box Up

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: ()
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: ()
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge: (3) Stirk, Rockeater, Madman
Sun Rounds: (1)  Vostok
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: (2) TricMagic, Jilladilla

Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Stirk
NOLAS, bis: ()
Moonseeds and the Steam Train: (3) Vivalas, TricMagic, Rockeater Veto by GM
Public Sanitation: (3) Madman, TricMagic, Vostok

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Rockeater on January 22, 2020, 03:59:49 am

Quote from: Since the New Guy Already Voted, Lets get the Box Up

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: ()
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: ()
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge: (3) Stirk, Rockeater, Madman
Sun Rounds: (1)  Vostok
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: (2) TricMagic, Jilladilla

Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Stirk
NOLAS, bis: ()
Moonseeds and the Steam Train: (3) Vivalas, TricMagic, Rockeater Veto by GM
Public Sanitation: (4) Madman, TricMagic, Vostok, Rockeater

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 22, 2020, 08:55:58 am

Quote from: Rockeater on January 22, 2020, 03:59:49 am

Quote from: Since the New Guy Already Voted, Lets get the Box Up

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: ()
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: ()
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge: (3) Stirk, Rockeater, Madman (Note, Vetoed by GM)
Sun Rounds: (1)  Vostok
Sunic Cartridges(Nerfed): ()
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: (2) TricMagic, Jilladilla

Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Stirk
NOLAS, bis: ()
Moonseeds and the Steam Train: (3) Vivalas, TricMagic, Rockeater Veto by GM
Public Sanitation: (4) Madman, TricMagic, Vostok, Rockeater

I will note that I added this and then Jill voted using the old copy. So maybe switch to the active one Rockeater.

Or the new resource. While it certainly is the density of depleted uranium, dense enough to tear through most armor of this time, hopefully. Along with whatever other metalworks may be made with it.

The nerfed Sunic Version is

Quote

pyrophoric and flammable, a strong enough impact causes it to release impressive amounts of heat and ignite (helpfully igniting anything in contact with it).

Rúm also has the ability to lighten stuff too, so it will have uses in aircraft down the line. Or perhaps managing lighter than air craft for Steam Zeppelins.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on January 22, 2020, 10:20:54 am

Quote from: Since the New Guy Already Voted, Lets get the Box Up

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: ()
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: (1) Vostok
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge: (3) Stirk, Rockeater, Madman (Note, Vetoed by GM)
Sun Rounds: ()
Sunic Cartridges(Nerfed): ()
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: (2) TricMagic, Jilladilla

Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Stirk
NOLAS, bis: ()
Moonseeds and the Steam Train: (3) Vivalas, TricMagic, Rockeater Veto by GM
Public Sanitation: (4) Madman, TricMagic, Vostok, Rockeater

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Rockeater on January 22, 2020, 12:22:25 pm

We better do fun stuff in the steam age

Quote from: Since the New Guy Already Voted, Lets get the Box Up

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: (1) Rockeater
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: (1) Vostok
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge: (2) Stirk, Madman (Note, Vetoed by GM)
Sun Rounds: ()
Sunic Cartridges(Nerfed): ()
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: (2) TricMagic, Jilladilla

Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Stirk
NOLAS, bis: ()
Moonseeds and the Steam Train: (3) Vivalas, TricMagic, Rockeater Veto by GM
Public Sanitation: (4) Madman, TricMagic, Vostok, Rockeater

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 22, 2020, 12:49:05 pm

Quote from: Rockeater on January 22, 2020, 12:22:25 pm

We better do fun stuff in the steam age

Quote from: Since the New Guy Already Voted, Lets get the Box Up

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: (1) Rockeater
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: (1) Vostok
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge: (2) Stirk, Madman (Not Vetoed by GM)
Sun Rounds: ()
Sunic Cartridges(Nerfed): ()
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: (2) TricMagic, Jilladilla

Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Stirk
NOLAS, bis: ()
Moonseeds and the Steam Train: (3) Vivalas, TricMagic, Rockeater Veto by GM
Public Sanitation: (4) Madman, TricMagic, Vostok, Rockeater

Fixed spelling error

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on January 22, 2020, 12:51:45 pm

Quote from: Since the New Guy Already Voted, Lets get the Box Up

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: (1) Rockeater
NOLAS: (1) Vostok
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sun Rounds: ()
Sunic Cartridges(Nerfed): ()
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: (3) TricMagic, Jilladilla, Madman

Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Stirk
NOLAS, bis: ()
Public Sanitation: (4) Madman, TricMagic, Vostok, Rockeater

Quote from: Twinwolf on Discord

Yeah my main issue with it is that you took me telling you to stop going for depleted uranium type bullets and just did it another way.

Quote from: Twinwolf on Discord

Please stop focusing on depleted uranium.
You're basically not going to get something equivalent to it in the prelims.

Allow me to fix your "fix" for you.

There, things that are not valid are no longer present in the votebox.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Jilladilla on January 22, 2020, 01:12:23 pm

Right. After all the Rum shenanigans on Discord... I considered using Rúm's fluff but with Skytears instead. Tric asked me to do that so here we are. If you have a better name than 'Skytear Carriage'; please, go ahead and suggest it. Yell at me if there's any lingering artifacts of the old proposal I at least partially copy and pasted.

Skytears, Skytear Carriages & the Protection of Eld

We came across a new people and ended up managing to join them to us. The forest country of Eld has long since made use of something they call Skytears, a black stone whose density is variable. They first used this to lighten themselves to climb the tall trees away from their foes. Later times saw them apply it to wooden weapons to greatly increase their weight and power in combat, and their longbows allowed them great mobility and advantages against their invaders over the years..

However, with the Renaissance, their isolationist times have finally been forced to come to an end by their northern neighbors seeking the wood and animals of the great redwood forest to build their sailing ships. Having come to us, we drove them back with our superior metallurgy and sunseed weaponry; in exchange for their Skytears, as long as we left their forest be. An arrangement that would set the precedent for Etroan Foreign Policy, of taking in and protecting smaller nations while mercilessly obliterating those who would threaten and exploit them.

Put simply, Skytears can change their density, it's weight, in response to shifts in temperature. Light as air, if not lighter, or heavy as stone and iron. It can do more; we've seen Eld do things with it that baffle us; however, respecting the sovereignty of our allies, we let them have their secrets just as we keep our own.

The most memorable early creation using Skytears for Etroa as a whole was in the creation of the 'Skytear Carriage'; something other nations mimicked with their 'hot-air balloons, the Skytear Carriage exploited the first discovered use of Skytears: in that their density shifts in response to temperature changes much like most normal matter; however the effects are greatly exaggerated. With a mass of these fairly lightweight at 'room temperature' rocks enveloped in a net and then tethered to a basket mounted with either a Sunseed Boiler or Sunic Lead Burner (The superior method was a topic of very intense debate for decades), it was fairly simple in construction; with exposure to the hot steam or smoke prompting the Skytears to experience a dramatic drop in density and become lighter than air; causing the 'carriage' to rise into the sky.

With the fulfillment of man's long held dream of flight, a subsequent surge in the arts occurred; glass windows and skylights, stained or not, became a frequent sight so that people could see more of the sky, aerial paintings became a common occurrence during this time period; and most major artists during this time period owned a Skytear Carriage as such. Most military bases and outposts also possessed one or two; as the value of elevation on a guardsman's sight range was a well known thing.

---

Removed the part about the Sunic Cartridges being vetoed by Twinwolf (they were, but Twinwolf was going to count those votes for the 'Nerfed' version, I made a slight edit to the votebox make this clear to everyone.) And yes, I know what I'm currently voting for. I will admit that I mostly want Eld being one of possibly many Protected States of ours to be an actual part of our lore.
Ok. Yell at me if I lost anything after having to adapt to Stirk's and Madman's Votebox Shenanigans.

Quote from: Since the New Guy Already Voted, Lets get the Box Up

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: (1) Rockeater
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: (1) Vostok
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge(Nerfed): (1) Stirk
Sun Rounds: ()
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: (3) TricMagic, Jilladilla, Madman

Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Stirk
NOLAS, bis: ()
Moonseeds and the Steam Train: (3) Vivalas, TricMagic, Rockeater Veto by GM
Public Sanitation: (4) Madman, TricMagic, Vostok, Rockeater
Skytear Carriage & Eld: (1) Jilladilla

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 22, 2020, 02:11:18 pm

Quote from: Shift means Rúm. Kinda like this Votebox.

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: (1) Rockeater
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: (2) Vostok, TricMaigc
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge(Nerfed): (1) Stirk
Sun Rounds: ()
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: (2) , Jilladilla, Madman


Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Stirk
NOLAS, bis: ()
Moonseeds and the Steam Train: (3) Vivalas, TricMagic, Rockeater Veto by GM
Public Sanitation: (3) Madman, Vostok, Rockeater
Skytear Carriage & Eld: (2) Jilladilla, TricMagic

Nazarov-Obdržálek Light Amplification System, Solar Gun addition

Sunseed glass was first created sometime during the tenth century by a glassblower known as Ivan Nazarov, famous for finding inspiration for his work while under the influence. While drunk one day, he decided to try creating glassware with crushed sunseed added to the mixture, which resulted in a vase with an otherworldly glow to it, shining even in the dead of night. Lucky for him, this impressed the priest who commissioned the piece enough that he managed to avoid getting executed for heresy. This technique was then passed down through the Nazarov family for the next four hundred years, bringing great renown to his descendents, who used the technique in everything from vases to stained glass windows.

The first recorded use of sunseed glass for practical purposes was in 1570, when a brilliant young naval officer by the name of Jaroslav Obdržálek commissioned a set of marine telescope lenses made of the material from Aleksey Nazarov. It quickly became evident to Obdržálek that what he had was the world's first night vision telescope, and after some experimentation it was discovered that Sunseed Glass amplified the light passing through it. Seeing the potential of such a technology, he partnered with Aleksey to explore the use of sunseed glass in practical applications as soon as he left the military. Soon after, they patented a system of sunseed-glass light amplification known as NOLAS, or "Nazarov-Obdržálek Light Amplification System."

After the Protection of Eld occurred, and the Skytear Carriages came to be, some saw the use of Sunseed Glass in weaponry to burn others and start fires amidst enemy lines. While some created Hot 'Air' Balloons to mimic us, Skytear Carriages were far superior in their control of height, and could fly higher.

So came to be the Solar Gun. The Solar Gun makes use of a central chamber which is filled with water. By pressing the trigger, an opening is made where a sunseed resides, connecting it to the water chamber. This causes it's light to build up in that chamber, which through multiple 1 foot sunseed glass mirrors in a barrel, is turned into a concentrated light that shoots forward in a straight line. In a manner of seconds, anything touched by it boils and catches afire. This lasted until the water in the chamber boiled away, at which point the top would need to be opened and the gun refilled. It's been shown to be especially effective in taking down other hot air balloons, as they rely on fabrics to hold the air in, which inevitably burn. Combined with the Night Vision Telescope, and lesser Solar Flares(which used a single colored sunseed glass lens and the water chamber to pass direction messages to ground forces.), allowed domination over most enemies, even before the rest of Etroa's arsenal was considered.
---
This wouldn't be figured out until much, much later, but the sunseed-glass reaction operates as a special case of blackbody radiation. Some of the incoming photons are absorbed by the sunseed glass, exciting the atoms within it, and is quickly re-radiated along the same path as electrons fall back to lower energy levels. Because of the special properties of the sunseed particles inside the glass, however, more photons are emitted than are absorbed, creating a light-amplification effect. [/quote]

[/quote]

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 22, 2020, 03:38:27 pm

Quote from: Madman198237 on January 22, 2020, 12:51:45 pm

Quote from: Since the New Guy Already Voted, Lets get the Box Up

Military:
Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: (1) Rockeater
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: (2) Vostok, TricMaigc
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge(Nerfed): (1) Stirk
Sun Rounds: ()
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: (2) , Jilladilla, Madman

Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Stirk
NOLAS, bis: ()
Public Sanitation: (3) Madman, Vostok, Rockeater ("More like Lore than a design")
Skytear Carriage & Eld: (2) Jilladilla, TricMagic

Quote from: Twinwolf on Discord

Yeah my main issue with it is that you took me telling you to stop going for depleted uranium type bullets and just did it another way.

Quote from: Twinwolf on Discord

Please stop focusing on depleted uranium.
You're basically not going to get something equivalent to it in the prelims.

Allow me to fix your "fix" for you.

There, things that are not valid are no longer present in the votebox.

Fixed your fix

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 22, 2020, 03:51:25 pm

Quote from: TricMagic on January 22, 2020, 02:11:18 pm

Quote from: Shift means Rúm. Kinda like this Votebox.

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: (1) Rockeater
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: (2) Vostok, TricMaigc
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge(Nerfed): (1) Stirk
Sun Rounds: ()
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: (2) , Jilladilla, Madman


Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Stirk
NOLAS, bis: ()
Public Sanitation: (3) Madman, Vostok, Rockeater
Skytear Carriage & Eld: (2) Jilladilla, TricMagic

Actual current votes.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Rockeater on January 22, 2020, 03:53:29 pm

Quote from: Shift means Rúm. Kinda like this Votebox.

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: (1) Rockeater
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: (2) Vostok, TricMaigc
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge(Nerfed): (1) Stirk
Sun Rounds: ()
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: (2) , Jilladilla, Madman


Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Stirk, Rockeater
NOLAS, bis: ()
Public Sanitation: (2) Madman, Vostok
Skytear Carriage & Eld: (2) Jilladilla, TricMagic

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on January 22, 2020, 04:01:23 pm

Quote from: Rockeater on January 22, 2020, 03:53:29 pm

Quote from: Shift means Rúm. Kinda like this Votebox.

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: (1) Rockeater
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: (2) Vostok, TricMaigc
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge(Nerfed): (1) Stirk
Sun Rounds: ()
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: (2) , Jilladilla, Madman


Civilian:
Great Galleon: (3) Stirk, Rockeater, Vostok
NOLAS, bis: ()
Public Sanitation: (1) Madman
Skytear Carriage & Eld: (2) Jilladilla, TricMagic

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 22, 2020, 04:06:41 pm

Double Book Accounting, the Start of the Great National Projects

During the times of 1560, logistics had become an issue. Trade Shipments were getting lost, sent to the wrong places. While it wasn't the worst, it still slowed the nation down in bookkeeping. While Etroans are good craftsmen, numbers used to only be in payments and tributes.

Enter Qui Sudain. A civilian from one of our Protection Wars of that era, he brought up the creation of Double Book Accounting, making sure that for every major government contract, import, and export, among other things, were placed in two sections, the Credit column, and the Debit column.

While this did lead to an increase in the amount of paper and ink we used, (mostly from that man's nation at the time, as they held many paper-making industries which foreign invaders wanted to steal their trees to make boats. Again...), it also unearthed many spies, plots, bandits, pirates, and lost goods and money. It turns out there was a major plot to bring down Etroa's Economy by the nations we had crushed back to being single states, all so they could invade us and our protectorates.

Another benefit was that with the freed money, we poured it into infrastructure. The Great Aquaducts of Etroa were created in many places of Etroa, far across out territories. Likewise, we begin land cultivation projects, boosting arable farmland by also diverting rivers carefully, and creating artificial lakes, mostly through the usage of dams and laid stone canals to boost the amount of water that gathered in rivers.

Another was the fortress towns and castle watchtowers, which protected our people and gave us an advantage in protecting our lands from invaders. We were also able to use Double Book Accounting to create roadways into places where roads could not travel before, mountains, and stone and wooden bridges across ravines and rivers.

Of the many projects we could take on, the use of sunseed heated baths became particularly popular, with stonemasons competing to build the most beautiful baths of the world. Indeed, the use of Public Baths greatly reduced illnesses and smell to the point where Etroan People were some of the healthiest alive. It would much later come to be known that water that has undergone heating and purifying by the sunseeds was extremely effective against almost all forms of germs while it was hot, barring those that could survive in extremely high heat.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 22, 2020, 04:17:19 pm

As a maybe important side note, it seems like the Public Sanitation idea is popular. We can keep it as lore instead of having it as a design, from what I can tell.

Should we add a Lore Section of our vote box? We could put up ideas like that and my gubberment post earlier to Yay/Nay.

Lol Imma do it anyway

Quote from: Does anyone read the box top?

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: (1) Rockeater
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: (1) Vostok,
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge(Nerfed): (1) Stirk
Sun Rounds: ()
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: (3) Jilladilla, Madman, TricMaigc


Civilian:
Great Galleon: (3) Stirk, Rockeater, Vostok
NOLAS, bis: ()
Public Sanitation: (1) Madman
Skytear Carriage & Eld: (2) Jilladilla, TricMagic

Lore:
Public Sanitation:
 Yes: ()
 No: ()

Guild Leadership:
 Yes: ()
 No: ()

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 22, 2020, 05:09:39 pm

The Great Walls of Etroa

With the protection of Eld, a new world was opened to us.

There was much talk of what to do to defend their new allies and their country. During this, other projects were worked on, a man created Double book Accounting, the great Aqueducts and Public Baths were built, and one person had an idea.

"Why not build a wall, many walls?"

While insane on the surface, that was only if these walls covered a small area. What was proposed were the Great Walls. Stone mined for the northen mountains taken from the recent war, and carried in the Floating Carriages, wheeled carriages which made use of Skytears to carry large and heavy loads across distances very easily.

And through Skytears and quarrying, along with an invention called Skyborn concrete. The Great Walls were built.

Skyborn Concrete is a special thing, made up of Skytears crushed and mixed in gravel and sand. Once wet, it could be pasted on easily, and once dried, hardened, boasting immense binding strength between separate objects, as if they were one piece. The cold of the stone gave it great strength, and the weight of the stone kept it in place even when warmed.

Using Skytear lifts, rope and wood scaffolding, and the quarried stone, 20 to 30 feet tall walls could be built quickly, with entire lengths built in a day with the help of the Heavy Hands These walls boasted bastions every 100 feet or so along their length(along with many near the gates), the same height but for being where the walls connected. And Gates were also built in places allowing passage, and able to deny it, forcing an enemy to assault them to pass. Additionally, some sections of the wall had towers built into them, allowing guards to rest and supplies stored, as well as to ascend by foot from behind these walls.

From the Plains' Sea all the way to the Mountains was the first Great Wall built. And in time, more Great Walls were built, creating vast spaces protected from enemies, as well as directing passage through valley areas that could box an enemy inside. As well, with this ability to build, walls were built to defend towns, cities, and create forts and castles.

In this manner, Etroa became known as the Great Shield, and those they protected forever safe against invaders.

Quote from: Shift means Rúm. Kinda like this Votebox.

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: (1) Rockeater
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: (1) Vostok,
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge(Nerfed): (1) Stirk
Sun Rounds: ()
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: (2) Jilladilla, Madman
The Great Walls of Etroa: (1) TricMagic


Civilian:
Great Galleon: (3) Stirk, Rockeater, Vostok
NOLAS, bis: ()
Public Sanitation: (1) Madman
Skytear Carriage & Eld: (2) Jilladilla, TricMagic
Double Book Accounting, the Start of the Great National Projects: ()

---

Of note. Sky Carriages and Eld. Walls, of the long, protective, fort, city, and generally building variety.

These two are my votes right now.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on January 22, 2020, 09:09:39 pm

Quote from: Fortress Cities

Etroa's fortress-cities near the border with Askia started as part of a crash-building program in a particularly rough period of Etroa-Askia relations. The idea was simple: have a bunch of outposts in strategic locations to help project power into disputed territory and/or buy time for the rest of Etroa's military to mobilize if the Askians decided to try invading.

This anticipated war with Askia never actually happened--the warmonger that everybody was worried about choked to death on a carrot at a state dinner and his replacement had other priorities--but the outposts remained. People looking for new farmland often chose to settle in or near the initial outposts, which quickly turned them into self-sustaining villages. Over time, the Etroan military kept building upon the more important outposts, improving the road networks leading back to the more developed parts of Etroa and reinforcing their defenses. Some eventually became massive fortress-cities with complex bastion fort systems around them and correspondingly intricate underground networks to store supplies and assist in defending them in case of war.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 23, 2020, 09:29:39 am

Quote from: Vostok on January 22, 2020, 09:09:39 pm

Quote from: Fortress Cities

Etroa's fortress-cities near the border with Askia started as part of a crash-building program in a particularly rough period of Etroa-Askia relations. The idea was simple: have a bunch of outposts in strategic locations to help project power into disputed territory and/or buy time for the rest of Etroa's military to mobilize if the Askians decided to try invading.

This anticipated war with Askia never actually happened--the warmonger that everybody was worried about choked to death on a carrot at a state dinner and his replacement had other priorities--but the outposts remained. People looking for new farmland often chose to settle in or near the initial outposts, which quickly turned them into self-sustaining villages. Over time, the Etroan military kept building upon the more important outposts, improving the road networks leading back to the more developed parts of Etroa and reinforcing their defenses. Some eventually became massive fortress-cities with complex bastion fort systems around them and correspondingly intricate underground networks to store supplies and assist in defending them in case of war.

In time, other countries who were weak militarily noticed Etroa's abilities, and pleaded to join as Protectorates. We would protect them, and in return they would offer us tribute and reduced price for exports and imports between us. Our Fortresses were built, and cities around them sprung up along with many towns.

This eventually lead to building roads, and culture spreading between the Protectorate Countries of Etroa and Etroa itself. And during wars in which we upheld our promises, they tied themselves to us more strongly in return, and we brought aqueducts, baths, and clean water to these countries.

---

Another part maybe?

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on January 23, 2020, 10:40:22 am

Quote from: Shift means Rúm. Kinda like this Votebox.

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: (1) Rockeater
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: (1) Vostok,
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge(Nerfed): (2) Stirk, Madman
Sun Rounds: ()
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: (1) Jilladilla
The Great Walls of Etroa: (1) TricMagic


Civilian:
Great Galleon: (3) Stirk, Rockeater, Vostok
NOLAS, bis: ()
Public Sanitation: (0)
Skytear Carriage & Eld: (3) Jilladilla, TricMagic, Madman
Double Book Accounting, the Start of the Great National Projects: ()

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 23, 2020, 10:55:24 am

Quote from: Madman198237 on January 23, 2020, 10:40:22 am

Quote from: Shift means Rúm. Kinda like this Votebox.

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: (1) Rockeater
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: (1) Vostok,
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge(Nerfed): (2) Stirk, Madman
Sun Rounds: ()
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: (1) Jilladilla
The Great Walls of Etroa: ()
Fortress Cities: (1) TricMagic


Civilian:
Great Galleon: (3) Stirk, Rockeater, Vostok
NOLAS, bis: ()
Public Sanitation: (0)
Skytear Carriage & Eld: (3) Jilladilla, TricMagic, Madman
Double Book Accounting, the Start of the Great National Projects: ()


Lore/General History

Public Sanitation
Yes: (1) TricMagic
No: ()

Roads, Protectorates, and Trade
Yes: (1) TricMagic
No: ()

Roads, Protectorates, and Trade

With our skills with building, we created a number of roads, bridges and walkways both in our cities, and between the various countries we protected. Our ability to plan a city for future generations was unparalleled at the time, with clear main streets stretching out from the center of the cities and towns. These streets in turn had walkways and roads connected to other planned parts of the city. And by building roads, we were able to ease trade between countries, and those we protected had reduced import and export taxes, which led to a boost in economy and the spreading of cultures between us. The capital city of Etroa became a shining jewel admired by many for it's architectural style, great canals and Aqueducts, and Public Baths. Also the fact that Etroa extracted salt from seawater also played a role in booming trade, as it was one scarcity that was wanted by many.

Even after the end of the Renaissance Era, Etroan Achievements in connecting those around them would be remembered, as would their fierce defense of their Protectorates. As well as being among the most hygienic of the nations of the world at the time.

---

More stuff. This time revision.

First, NOLAS Telescopes for night vision. If we get the carriages, these are going to be pretty clutch. Just Sunseed and glass to make it, by accident as stated in the actual full design.

Second. As I hope for the Carriages, Eld and Fortresses.

Revision: Naur

Since ancient times, we have primarily used sunstones and splashes of water to start up a fire through the heat and dry kindling. However, with increased trade over time, we learned of flint.

It wasn't of much interest to us at the time, other than looking like the black glass around our home. However, one blacksmith tried sparking flint with a sunseed.

The result was a flame. However, that alone wasn't much. They tried making it into a flint powder, along with sunseed powder in equal amount, and mixing it in a metal, basic iron that wasn't good enough to be made into a weapon. Just a slab of metal they then scratched against a rock.

The result this time was an explosive sound and a strong hot bust of frame that left their eyebrows gone and arms charred. Gun-Blacksmith Savage was more careful after that.

Further testing brought him to two results. The first was a 20% flint flakes, 5% sunseed, and the rest iron. This slab was very hardy, good for a whole decade of use as a fire-starter, and started fires every time. Just scratch it against something, and watch the sparking flame shoot along.

The other was 10% Flint, 20% Sunseed, made into a bullet. When shot and hitting something, a strong fireball came from it's deformation point, along with an explosion. Hitting sideways against a plate of metal armor caused a similar effect, though smaller. The scratch caused the superheated spark to shoot out of the metal and suck in the air to fuel it, which caused the minor explosion. Though the actual mechanics of it were only understood later on, Gun-Blacksmith Savage only knew that it caused fireballs and explosions.

Typically, less sunseed means less heated spark. More means more heat to the spark. The higher the heat, the greater the power. Sunseed amplifies the spark of flint. Explosions occur cause the spark sucks in the air to fuel it's expansion, hitting a type of saturation point. This is also where the fire comes from, the heat burning the air as fuel.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on January 24, 2020, 04:15:59 pm

Quote from: The only rum we need belongs to Captain Morgan.

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: (1) Rockeater
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: ()
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge(Nerfed): (3) Stirk, Madman, Vostok
Sun Rounds: ()
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: (1) Jilladilla
The Great Walls of Etroa: ()
Fortress Cities: (1) TricMagic


Civilian:
Great Galleon: (3) Stirk, Rockeater, Vostok
NOLAS, bis: ()
Public Sanitation: (0)
Skytear Carriage & Eld: (3) Jilladilla, TricMagic, Madman
Double Book Accounting, the Start of the Great National Projects: ()


Lore/General History

Public Sanitation
Yes: (2) TricMagic, Vostok
No: ()

Roads, Protectorates, and Trade
Yes: (1) TricMagic
No: ()

...and here's the final Fortress Cities proposal for now.

Quote from: Fortress Cities

Etroa's fortress-cities near the border with Askia started as part of a crash-building program in a particularly rough period of Etroa-Askia relations. The idea was simple: have a bunch of outposts in strategic locations to help project power into disputed territory and/or buy time for the rest of Etroa's military to mobilize if the Askians decided to try invading.

This anticipated war with Askia never actually happened--the warmonger that everybody was worried about choked to death on a carrot at a state dinner and his replacement had other priorities--but the outposts remained. People looking for new farmland often chose to settle in or near the initial outposts, which quickly turned them into self-sustaining villages. Over time, the Etroan military kept building upon the more important outposts, improving the road networks leading back to the more developed parts of Etroa and reinforcing their defenses. Eventually, some of these outpost towns became massive fortress-cities, complete with complex bastion fort systems around them and correspondingly intricate underground networks to store supplies and move men around to help hold the city in case of war. Many more became major economic centers, housing craftsmen and merchants who served the villages that had sprung up in the area since the outpost's construction.

Their location on the frontier made them close to the various smaller, neighboring states between Etroa and Askia. In some cases, it was easier to trade with these neighboring states for things than to have them shipped over from the economic centers along the coast, and that is exactly what they did. Trade between Etroa and these neighbors flourished, and with this growth in trade came closer relations. Many entered into trade agreements or mutual defense pacts with Etroa over the next century.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 24, 2020, 05:30:31 pm

Might as well bring out the point that says no to lead being tied so deeply to something just on principle.

Quote

```Can I get lead poisoning from being around ammunition? The consensus is, yes. The CDC recently changed the status of lead too, “no safe exposure.” A key measurement for lead exposure is the “BLL." or "Blood Lead Level."May 8, 2018
```
```Wash hands frequently when handling weapons or ammo. Don't eat or drink while shooting or reloading. Don't go to indoor ranges unless they have VERY good air systems. Use only lead-free bullets when hunting for meat.```
```Lead poisoning is a type of metal poisoning caused by lead in the body. The brain is the most sensitive. Symptoms may include abdominal pain, constipation, headaches, irritability, memory problems, inability to have children, and tingling in the hands and feet.```

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Occupational_exposure (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Occupational_exposure)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Lead-containing_products (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Lead-containing_products)

All Sunic Cartridges contain Lead as a primary ingredient. Now you know.

---

Might not affect anything, but it would just be plain weird if it didn't. And this is a designed reaction. Why Lead Strik, why not something different rather than just repainting the whole DU design and saying Nerfed?

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 24, 2020, 10:20:14 pm

Quote from: TricMagic on January 24, 2020, 05:30:31 pm

Might as well bring out the point that says no to lead being tied so deeply to something just on principle.

Quote

```Can I get lead poisoning from being around ammunition? The consensus is, yes. The CDC recently changed the status of lead too, “no safe exposure.” A key measurement for lead exposure is the “BLL." or "Blood Lead Level."May 8, 2018
```
```Wash hands frequently when handling weapons or ammo. Don't eat or drink while shooting or reloading. Don't go to indoor ranges unless they have VERY good air systems. Use only lead-free bullets when hunting for meat.```
```Lead poisoning is a type of metal poisoning caused by lead in the body. The brain is the most sensitive. Symptoms may include abdominal pain, constipation, headaches, irritability, memory problems, inability to have children, and tingling in the hands and feet.```

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Occupational_exposure (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Occupational_exposure)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Lead-containing_products (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Lead-containing_products)

All Sunic Cartridges contain Lead as a primary ingredient. Now you know.

---

Might not affect anything, but it would just be plain weird if it didn't. And this is a designed reaction. Why Lead Strik, why not something different rather than just repainting the whole DU design and saying Nerfed?

I'm not sure how to tell you this, but normal bullets will still use lead. And the enemy will still be attempting to expose us to as much lead as possible. If your opposition to a bullet is "lead is used in its construction!" you have strange priorities

Besides, the tingly feeling is nice.


Compromise design: Skytear Galleons
*Skytear fluff goes here*
*Great Galleon Fluff goes here*

Even a well-made galleon can occasionally take on a hole, be it in combat or by accident. With most ships this can lead to pumping like a mad man to keep yourself from sinking, the Etroan galleon came up with a novel use of the Skytear material to keep 'er going. Skytear beams would be added at strategic locations across the ship near the waterline. A sunstone (or multiple on larger ships) would be placed along said beams. In a case of a hull breach, prevention attempts would begin as normal. Should the breach prove too severe the section would be closed off and allowed to flood up to the beams - which would proceed to heat up and increase the buoyancy of the ship to counteract the extra weight of the water. This would in turn allow the ship to limp to the nearest dock for repairs even with damage that would have sunk a foreign ship twice over.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Jilladilla on January 25, 2020, 02:34:20 pm

Right. Stirk? I will agree to your compromise design. Note that I will not move your vote; as you have not asked. Either yell at me in Discord to do it or do it yourself. (It's not laziness, it's me not wishing to mess with other people's votes. As that leads to a can of worms being opened)

Quote from: It's time to cut through this deadlock

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: (1) Rockeater
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: ()
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge(Nerfed): (3) Stirk, Madman, Vostok
Sun Rounds: ()
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: ()
The Great Walls of Etroa: ()
Fortress Cities: (1) TricMagic


Civilian:
Great Galleon: (3) Stirk, Rockeater, Vostok
NOLAS, bis: ()
Public Sanitation: (0)
Skytear Carriage & Eld: (2) TricMagic, Madman
Double Book Accounting, the Start of the Great National Projects: ()
Skytear Galleon: (1) Jilladilla


Lore/General History

Public Sanitation
Yes: (2) TricMagic, Vostok
No: ()

Roads, Protectorates, and Trade
Yes: (2) TricMagic, Jilladilla
No: ()

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 25, 2020, 02:53:00 pm

Quote from: It's time to cut through this deadlock

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: (1) Rockeater
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: ()
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge(Nerfed): (3) Stirk, Madman, Vostok
Sun Rounds: ()
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: ()
The Great Walls of Etroa: ()
Fortress Cities: (1) TricMagic


Civilian:
Great Galleon: (2) Rockeater, Vostok
NOLAS, bis: ()
Public Sanitation: (0)
Skytear Carriage & Eld: (2) TricMagic, Madman
Double Book Accounting, the Start of the Great National Projects: ()
Skytear Galleon: (2) Jilladilla, Stirk


Lore/General History

Public Sanitation
Yes: (2) TricMagic, Vostok
No: ()

Roads, Protectorates, and Trade
Yes: (2) TricMagic, Jilladilla
No: ()

Now we have a three way deadlock! Clearly better.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 25, 2020, 03:12:44 pm

Quote from: Stirk on January 21, 2020, 02:38:05 pm

Military Design: Sunic Cartridge (Nerfed)
As materials advanced across the ages, the impressive ability of sun-stone to "explode" any human it managed to enter became less and less relevant as new armor conspired to prevent the rock from eliminating its target. Fortunately, those same advances in materials came up with a solution! Etroan alchemist had, in attempt to turn the base metal into gold, combined crushed sunseed into molten lead creating a material known as Sunic Lead. Sunic Lead is pyrophoric and flammable, a strong enough impact causes it to release impressive amounts of heat and ignite (helpfully igniting anything in contact with it). With this material, the alchemist had ironically struck gold - centuries later it would be the choice round for Etroan musketmen. This incendiary round would easily defeat even the greatest plate armor, set alight the mightiest of ships, and send any cowards who dare face the might of Etroa running for the hills.

With this development allowing firearms to become much more common than in many foreign lands, Etroa tended to be on the cutting edge of gun development. They developed a paper cartridge to allow for faster rates of fire and to give the powder some amount of water resistance. There would be two compartments made out of paper, one with a Sunic Lead ball and another with the powder charge. The end of the cartridge would be bit open to allow for some powder to be placed on the pan while the rest of the powder would be poured down the barrel, followed by the remaining paper and the ball (with the helpful assistance of a rod). Our now-loaded firearm could then be fired, the Sunic Round igniting whatever target is unfortunate enough to be in its sights.

Sunic Cannonball Round

As time passed, Sunshard weaponry became less and less relevant with better armor and tactics. The creation of the cannon, gun, catapults, and Trebuchets, also led to warfare being fought from afar rather than close in as in time progressed.

However, Etroan Metelworking did not stand still. During this time, the first blacksmiths created the Sunic Round, a compositite alloy made of lead, iron, and sunseed powder melted together and cast. These rounds were cast for cannons, Sunic Cannonballs.

What made these rounds special were two things. First, the inclusion of Iron gave it strength, both in weight and hardiness, making it good for piercing armor. Second, the combination of Sunseed and Lead in Iron gave the resulting metal combination a unique property of creating a powerful fireball and great heat whenever it struck something with sufficient force. (Later this would come to be known as Pyrophoricity.)

This came to be used as the cannon ammo of choice by Etroa. Their ship cannons fired cannonballs which set enemy ships aflame. Cannons in the army fired cannonballs which bounced and killed many from both the impact and the fire they spread with the first few hits. It gave Etroa an advantage that rendered traditional tactics useless as the fire and heat spread among enemy ranks, destroying any lines they could form.

Though one thing to be noted from this alloy is the flames burned hot and often put themselves out after a while. Rather, they burned too hot and eventually could no longer spread. This thankfully prevented Etroa Advances from rendering the earth a scorched wasteland, though it never saved many ships that were not put out from a watery grave.

Quote from: Stirk on January 25, 2020, 02:53:00 pm

Quote from: It's time to cut through this deadlock

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: (1) Rockeater
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: ()
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge(Nerfed): (3) Stirk, Madman, Vostok
Sun Rounds: ()
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: ()
The Great Walls of Etroa: ()
Fortress Cities: (1) TricMagic
Sunic Cannonball Round: (1) TricMagic


Civilian:
Great Galleon: (2) Rockeater, Vostok
NOLAS, bis: ()
Public Sanitation: (0)
Skytear Carriage & Eld: (2) TricMagic, Madman
Double Book Accounting, the Start of the Great National Projects: ()
Skytear Galleon: (2) Jilladilla, Stirk,


Lore/General History

Public Sanitation
Yes: (2) TricMagic, Vostok
No: ()

Roads, Protectorates, and Trade
Yes: (2) TricMagic, Jilladilla
No: ()

Now we have a three way deadlock! Clearly better.

Indeed.

---

Also, as noted in discord. If Sunic Catridges go through, will we be firing bullets at ships...

Quote from: Strik on Discord

IMO we should be shooting bullets at everything

I'll note most times I read it, I saw it as only being the bullet. We will not be burning many ships with this Era's guns. Too tiny for one, since water and buckets are one thing most ships would have. Being so close is also a bad thing.

So no, Cartridges will only be bullets. Never really used for anything else unless we define them in another design/revision.

I honestly have doubts for this Compromise too, given how dense the Great Galleon is already. Mostly from Twin saying what I wrote today seems like 5+ designs.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on January 25, 2020, 04:04:55 pm

Quote from: It's time to cut through this deadlock

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: (1) Rockeater
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: ()
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge(Nerfed): (3) Stirk, Madman, Vostok
Sun Rounds: ()
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: ()
The Great Walls of Etroa: ()
Fortress Cities: (1) TricMagic
Sunic Cannonball Round: (1) TricMagic


Civilian:
Great Galleon: (2) Rockeater, Vostok
NOLAS, bis: ()
Public Sanitation: (0)
Skytear Carriage & Eld: (1) TricMagic
Double Book Accounting, the Start of the Great National Projects: ()
Skytear Galleon: (3) Jilladilla, Stirk, Madman


Lore/General History
Public Sanitation
Yes: (3) TricMagic, Vostok, Madman
No: ()

Roads, Protectorates, and Trade
Yes: (3) TricMagic, Jilladilla, Madman
No: ()

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on January 25, 2020, 04:18:34 pm

Quote from: Гет он вить ит

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: (1) Rockeater
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: ()
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge(Nerfed): (3) Stirk, Madman, Vostok
Sun Rounds: ()
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: ()
The Great Walls of Etroa: ()
Fortress Cities: (1) TricMagic
Sunic Cannonball Round: (1) TricMagic


Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Rockeater
NOLAS, bis: ()
Public Sanitation: (0)
Skytear Carriage & Eld: (1) TricMagic
Double Book Accounting, the Start of the Great National Projects: ()
Skytear Galleon: (4) Jilladilla, Stirk, Madman, восток


Lore/General History
Public Sanitation
Yes: (3) TricMagic, Vostok, Madman
No: ()

Roads, Protectorates, and Trade
Yes: (3) TricMagic, Jilladilla, Madman
No: ()

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 25, 2020, 04:23:47 pm

Quote from: Vostok on January 25, 2020, 04:18:34 pm

Quote from: Гет он вить ит

Military:
Sunseedlock Musket: (1) Rockeater
Plasma Bomb Reaction: ()
NOLAS: ()
The Tulenov Steam-Clipper: ()
Sunic Cartridge(Nerfed): (4) Stirk, Madman, Vostok, TricMagic
Sun Rounds: ()
Rúm & the Protection of Eld: ()
The Great Walls of Etroa: ()
Fortress Cities:
Sunic Cannonball Round:


Civilian:
Great Galleon: (1) Rockeater
NOLAS, bis: ()
Public Sanitation: (0)
Skytear Carriage & Eld:
Double Book Accounting, the Start of the Great National Projects: ()
Skytear Galleon: (5) Jilladilla, Stirk, Madman, восток, TricMagic


Lore/General History
Public Sanitation
Yes: (3) TricMagic, Vostok, Madman
No: ()

Roads, Protectorates, and Trade
Yes: (3) TricMagic, Jilladilla, Madman
No: ()

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: Twinwolf on January 26, 2020, 11:08:09 am

Design Phase

Quote

Military Design: Sunic Cartridge (Nerfed)
As materials advanced across the ages, the impressive ability of sun-stone to "explode" any human it managed to enter became less and less relevant as new armor conspired to prevent the rock from eliminating its target. Fortunately, those same advances in materials came up with a solution! Etroan alchemist had, in attempt to turn the base metal into gold, combined crushed sunseed into molten lead creating a material known as Sunic Lead. Sunic Lead is pyrophoric and flammable, a strong enough impact causes it to release impressive amounts of heat and ignite (helpfully igniting anything in contact with it). With this material, the alchemist had ironically struck gold - centuries later it would be the choice round for Etroan musketmen. This incendiary round would easily defeat even the greatest plate armor, set alight the mightiest of ships, and send any cowards who dare face the might of Etroa running for the hills.

With this development allowing firearms to become much more common than in many foreign lands, Etroa tended to be on the cutting edge of gun development. They developed a paper cartridge to allow for faster rates of fire and to give the powder some amount of water resistance. There would be two compartments made out of paper, one with a Sunic Lead ball and another with the powder charge. The end of the cartridge would be bit open to allow for some powder to be placed on the pan while the rest of the powder would be poured down the barrel, followed by the remaining paper and the ball (with the helpful assistance of a rod). Our now-loaded firearm could then be fired, the Sunic Round igniting whatever target is unfortunate enough to be in its sights.

Difficulty: Average
Rolls: 6+2+0 = 8

The rippling fire of Etroan musketlines was a terrifying sight on many a battlefield. The sunic cartridges were a successful means of bringing the weapons of the past to the age of firearms -  it’s believed by some that the term “firearm” came into use because of Etroa’s incendiary armament. It seemed a natural continuation of the sunshard weaponry of Etroa's history. The alchemist who discovered the reaction for sunic lead was posthumously regarded as a revolutionary inventor and great mind of his generation, even if he'd considered the experiment a failure because the lead had not become gold, although it did take a yellow tint for some odd reason.

Sunic cartridges made for significantly more effective weaponry than it’s contemporaries in other nations. The cartridge, composed of sunic lead and powder, functions much like standard powder cartridges in loading; tear off the tip and ram in the powder. When the soldiers aim and fire, though, things are distinct. The flash of the firing is brighter and the sunic lead seems to ignite when it reaches a certain speed, lending a distinct appearance to a sunic lead volley. When the lead makes contact, the ball ignites. While this doesn’t have as much piercing power as traditional weaponry (as much of the balls energy goes into the ignition), even people in armor don’t much like being set on fire, and it’s murderous against lightly or unarmored soldiers and cavalry. Some... enterprising soldiers used it to shoot at wooden ships. However, the range and accuracy of a musket - or rather, the lack thereof - makes this largely irrelevant outside of all but the closest ranges. All the same, an Etroan gunline was not something you wanted to be on the wrong end of.

Quote

Compromise design: Skytear Galleons
*Skytear fluff goes here*
*Great Galleon Fluff goes here*

Even a well-made galleon can occasionally take on a hole, be it in combat or by accident. With most ships this can lead to pumping like a mad man to keep yourself from sinking, the Etroan galleon came up with a novel use of the Skytear material to keep 'er going. Skytear beams would be added at strategic locations across the ship near the waterline. A sunstone (or multiple on larger ships) would be placed along said beams. In a case of a hull breach, prevention attempts would begin as normal. Should the breach prove too severe the section would be closed off and allowed to flood up to the beams - which would proceed to heat up and increase the buoyancy of the ship to counteract the extra weight of the water. This would in turn allow the ship to limp to the nearest dock for repairs even with damage that would have sunk a foreign ship twice over.

Difficulty: Average
Roll: 6+3+0 = 9 (Above Average)

The Eld Sovereign Republic lies to the West of Etroa, a small nation in the forests that really just wants to be left alone. And with their fantastical resource, skytears, they’ve managed to accomplish this for centuries. But it couldn’t last forever, and didn’t. Other nations constantly attacked them, seeking the skytears for their own use. Eventually, they had to break; they offered the skytears to Etroa without a fight in exchange for their autonomy. While some war hawks in Etroa wished to conquer them and take their resources by force, cooler heads recognized that if they did that, the secrets to working skytears would be lost; better to leave them their independence, mostly, in exchange for later benefits. This is how Eld became the first protectorate of Etroa.

Etroan engineers were quick to put Eld and it’s unique resource to use. While isolated in territory, Etroa would not be isolated in influence. The skytear galleons were commissioned by the ruling class in order to expand Etroan wealth and influence beyond the seas on either side. Their size allowed for them to carry large amounts of cargo and defensive armament, and crew. The fight to take an Etroan galleon, as described by one Askian privateer in his memoirs, was like trying to take a floating fortress, with it’s armament and the size of it’s troop complement. And even if one merely wanted to sink it, it was no easy task, as the skytear beams lightened the weight of flooded compartments; a skytear galleon doesn’t so much sink as become a floating wreck, if the beams themselves aren’t shattered, and this makes it easy to limp back to port or to be salvaged by others in the merchant fleet if they can’t. 

---

Even in a time of comparative peace, war is always on the horizon, and innovation cannot be ignored. It is now the revision phase. You have 2 revisions.

Spoiler: Prelimary Proposals (click to show/hide)

Designs
Tamin Orodruin: The Tamin Orodruin caldera, while it’s status as the center of the world is debated, is the cradle of metalworking - it’s resources and the easy access to heat helped Etroans develop the trade early, and they have improved on it in the time since.

Sunshard Spears: Bronze spears tipped with sharpened sunseeds, a weapon combining two unique factors of Etroa. It causes heavy burns where it pierces - and while it cauterizes the wounds such that bleeding out isn’t a worry, the pain can often be incapacitating all the same.
   -Maclimire Craftswords: Before they can take an apprenticeship, an Etroan blacksmith must first craft a Maclimire to be recognized as a master. The swords are much like their cousins, the sunshard spears, in how they use sunseeds to turn already bad wounds into lethal stabs, although a bit better in close range.

Etroan Water Purifiers: Devices used in the ritualistic cleansing of water. Effective at making water safe to drink, although used primarily for ritual rather than day to day use.

Lunguma, The Heavy Hand: A bronze apparatus worn on the arm and part of the body. Using the power of fairly high pressure and steam created by sunseeds and water, it drives a bronze piston with speed into whatever is in front of it. While too unwieldy for combat use despite the attempts of several youths, it allows combat engineers to rapidly build defenses given a couple hours.
   -The Angamolen of Damrod: A large ironworks created by the great smith Damrod after his invention of the Heavy Hand. Using similar technology, the forge would later be an example for others to follow, making it easier to forge large amounts of metal into usable shape.

Sunic Cartridges: Special ammunition for Etroan musketmen, using Sunic Lead. While it doesn’t pierce as well as traditional ammunition, it easily ignites on impact.

Skytear Galleons: Huge cargo ships with skytear-infused support beams. Incredibly difficult to actually sink due to the use of skytears and sunseeds to reduce density and lighten it as it takes on water.

Resources and Interactions
Sunseeds: Iridescent stones resembling opals, with fantastical properties focused around heat. When making contact with water, it rapidly heats up. When mixed with lead, it creates Sunic Lead, which is pyrophoric, igniting in the air and setting fire to targets hit with it. Not much is known about it, but it surely has potential.

Skytears: A pitch black stone, with fantastical properties focused around density. It changes density in response to temperature, with higher temperatures reducing density.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 26, 2020, 11:31:24 am

Vostok's Original Idea. Made an edit for simply the NOLAS.

Quote from: Nazarov-Obdržálek Light Amplification System

Sunseed glass was first created sometime during the tenth century by a glassblower known as Ivan Nazarov, famous for finding inspiration for his work while under the influence. While drunk one day, he decided to try creating glassware with crushed sunseed added to the mixture, which resulted in a vase with an otherworldly glow to it, shining even in the dead of night. Lucky for him, this impressed the priest who commissioned the piece enough that he managed to avoid getting executed for heresy. This technique was then passed down through the Nazarov family for the next four hundred years, bringing great renown to his descendents, who used the technique in everything from vases to stained glass windows.

The first recorded use of sunseed glass for practical purposes was in 1570, when a brilliant young naval officer by the name of Jaroslav Obdržálek commissioned a set of marine telescope lenses made of the material from Aleksey Nazarov. It quickly became evident to Obdržálek that what he had was the world's first night vision telescope, and after some experimentation it was discovered that Sunseed Glass amplified the light passing through it. Seeing the potential of such a technology, he partnered with Aleksey to explore the use of sunseed glass in practical applications as soon as he left the military. Soon after, they patented a system of sunseed-glass light amplification known as NOLAS, or "Nazarov-Obdržálek Light Amplification System." It would come to bring light to Etroan Nights, as well as bring about the production of Night Vision Telescopes and Sights for use in the dark.


---
This wouldn't be figured out until much, much later, but the sunseed-glass reaction operates as a special case of blackbody radiation. Some of the incoming photons are absorbed by the sunseed glass, exciting the atoms within it, and is quickly re-radiated along the same path as electrons fall back to lower energy levels. Because of the special properties of the sunseed particles inside the glass, however, more photons are emitted than are absorbed, creating a light-amplification effect.

---

Spoiler: And of less use... (click to show/hide)

Skystone Ascent

Skytears becomes lighter the hotter it gets. To the point it actually starts flying away. We learned from Eld how to meld Skytears together using cold water, and in this way, made a Skystone large enough to serve our purpose. Shaping it into beams and stone melded to a Skytear platform for people to stand in, and then weaving cloth over the top to contain it. By placing Sunseeds in water, we could boil it, and the steam would be trapped in the Skytear bowl. Then, we just keep the steam as steam with sunseed staves, and this heats the Skytears. In turn, the entire thing begins to rise.

Skytears are actually pretty light at the usual temperatures we get here. Melding it into a single Ascent craft allows us to get some height to overlook the fields. Though we can only stay up for 20 Minutes before we come back down, if we don't carry more water with us. It is extremely useful for scouting though.

As for steering... Well, we mostly need to read the winds and control our descent. Sunseed Staves can keep steam hottest closest to us, so descending is our only way to steer.

---

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Revision Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 26, 2020, 12:12:07 pm

Colonial And Protectorate Forces (CAP Force) and the Dragon:
While Etroa offered protection to lesser nations, it requires that they pull their own weight. Specifically the protectorate and colonial forces are required by treaty to offer soldiers to the Etroan military to use as we please. The number of soldiers is small, but with the caveat we get to decide which soldiers are chosen. Naturally we chose the best of each bunch. As a result the CAP force acts as an elite multi-culture unit, with the best equipment and training available at the time. Their strength and bravery would bring all of Etroa together, inspiring the common soldier to follow their example.

They often acted as cavalry forces, as the horse would be provided by the protectorate state by the treaty. As such a new variant of the sunic-cartridge musket was created in the sunic dragon. Embracing the short range power of sunic firearms, the sunic dragon is a cut-down "blunderbuss pistol" firing multiple, smaller sunic lead balls held in the paper cartridge like a shotgun shell. This increases the area of impact greatly, allowing it ignite multiple points on its target or to hit multiple targets should they be in close formation. They would carry multiple pre-loaded dragons around with them while in the field, using the speed and maneuverability of their mounts to get close enough to enemy lines to make them devastating (either as cavalry or "dragoons" who dismount before engaging, named after their iconic weapon).

Decorating these weapons to look like the other kind of dragon was common for high-quality pieces, such as those used to guard wealthy merchant ships.

Sunic Cannonball:
Applying the military knowledge of the infantry round to cannons, so enemy ships actually catch on fire. Etroans all wonder why we didn't think of this sooner. The sunic cannonball is a cannon ball made of sunic lead specialized in anti-ship warfare. It hits the ship. The ship hits the bottom of the sea. What more is there to say?

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Revision Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 26, 2020, 12:27:59 pm

Quote from: Cannoballs of Light- Votebox

Revisions
NOLAS: (1) TricMagic

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Revision Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 26, 2020, 12:58:46 pm

Spoiler: Puff of logic (click to show/hide)

Skystone Cannon

The Skystone Cannon of the time was an interesting piece that showed how little Etroa cared about anything scientists could say today. Made from a Skytear Barrel wrapped in metal, it used a large amount of gunpowder, before using a Sunic Lead pin attached to Skystone to ignite it all by ramming it in the firing hole.

This caused a huge amount of heat, increasing the density/mass of the cannon barrel even as the Skytear cannonball was launched by the expanding gases. Once exiting the cannon, all the heated gases enveloped it, heating it immensely.

It then went on to tear through castle gates and walls like obsidian, with a lot of Force, cracking masonry, and crumbling. And unlike most cannons of the time, it wouldn't crack thanks to the density of the barrel increasing. Though to move it requires splashing it with water on the exposed barrel to cool it down, or letting it do so naturally.

Skystone Cannons used Iron and later steel when it was invented to keep their mass from collapsing the cannon. Though outside of battle before their first use, the Skystone itself was light enough to make moving them fairly easy.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Revision Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 26, 2020, 01:34:09 pm

If you are going to make the votebox you have to get all the ideas in it :V

Quote from: Industrial Age is Next! Votebox

Revisions
NOLAS: (1) TricMagic
Colonial And Protectorate Forces (CAP Force) and the Dragon: ()
Sunic Cannonball: ()
Skystone Cannon: ()

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Revision Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 26, 2020, 01:55:43 pm

Quote from: Stirk on January 26, 2020, 01:34:09 pm

If you are going to make the votebox you have to get all the ideas in it :V

Quote from: Industrial Age is Next! Votebox

Revisions
NOLAS: (1) TricMagic
Colonial And Protectorate Forces (CAP Force) and the Dragon: ()
Sunic Cannonball: ()
Skytear Forging Method- Skytearing Trebuchet: (1) TricMagic

Perhaps.

As the Votebox states, Industrial is next. Which means steam power and vehicles! So many ideas to create, from the Submarine to the Airship, and anywhere in-between. And Moonseeds may finally make an appearance.

---

Logic logic. Must stay consistent.

Skytear Forging Method- Skytearing Trebuchet

Thanks to our kindness, Eld has bestowed upon us how to work Skytears into a devastating weapon. Put simply, the answer is water and heat.

By heating Skytears in a forge their density changes. Then immediately dunking them in cold water will cause the Skytears to contract. Reheat it, and Skytears can be forged together like any other ore. Apply dunking as necessary.

Put simply, we used this by adding more Skytear, pounding it together, dunking it to cause it to contract, reheating it and keeping it hot without doing anything, then pounding it again as it cooled, adding more skystone. And repeat.

In our case, we used it to greatly increase the density of the Skytear, making into an iron ball, and a larger block. Then, by using the block as the counterweight of a trebuchet, the heavy and dense ball can be swung and flung, before impacting either the ground, or a wall. In the case of the ground, the force of the impact is sufficient to destroy the area it hits, before it goes bouncing and or rolling through enemy lines at decent speeds. In the case of a wall, well... There won't be a wall anymore, since the thing will shatter like obsidian.

The Skytearing Trebuchet is a sign of Etroan Engineering, and an extremely terrifying siege weapon.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Revision Phase)
Post by: Vostok on January 26, 2020, 04:06:15 pm

Quote from: 設備修訂方案

Revisions
NOLAS: (2) TricMagic, Vostok
Colonial And Protectorate Forces (CAP Force) and the Dragon: ()
Sunic Cannonball: ()
Skytear Forging Method- Skytearing Trebuchet: (1) TricMagic

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Revision Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 26, 2020, 05:06:16 pm

Etroan Spear

Through an ancient art passed down to us by the Eld, we have learned the secrets of forging Skytears. The secret is something pretty simple, cold water.

Put simply, in very cold water, say spring water from the mountain peaks, we can use our hands to shape Skytears like very hard clay.

Using this, we made a Spearhead. High density, but thin, perfect for stabbing through armor. Adding Sunshards into the structure, grinding the edge sharp, and using our craftsmenship, we created a spear perfect for dealing with enemies once more. A single stab would pierce armor easily, and the sunshards would end them once more.

Using these, we used their superior reach when closing to melee to solidify our ability to fight on the battlefield. Gunfire from afar, then when they got close, spearlines from the front. As well, cavalry made even better use of them from horseback, mowing down foe after foe in a row. It signaled the rise of Etroa, even higher than before.

Quote from: Vostok on January 26, 2020, 04:06:15 pm

Quote from: 設備修訂方案

Revisions
NOLAS: (2) TricMagic, Vostok
Colonial And Protectorate Forces (CAP Force) and the Dragon: ()
Sunic Cannonball: ()
Etroan Spear: (1) TricMagic

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Revision Phase)
Post by: Vostok on January 27, 2020, 05:00:11 pm

Quote from: 設備修訂方案

Revisions
NOLAS: (2) TricMagic, Vostok
Colonial And Protectorate Forces (CAP Force) and the Dragon: ()
Sunic Cannonball: (1) Vostok
Etroan Spear: (1) TricMagic

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Revision Phase)
Post by: Twinwolf on January 27, 2020, 05:05:43 pm

Typo on the name, fix that to avoid confusion.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Revision Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on January 28, 2020, 11:37:45 am

Eld-Etroa Cement

A collaboration Of Elden Secret Techniques, and Etroan construction know-how. The Eld have long since known a method of modifying the base weight/density of Skytears. (How the dense Skytears were created was a secret later learned). Using crushed Skytears in in a mixture of gravel, crushed obsidian, sand, and slag, EE Cement is created. This is then mixed with water and used to build walls and buildings..

EE Cement was a marvel of it's time, with structures lasting a 100 years unchanged, at least. Not only that, but it was incredibly strong, far outpacing ordinarily stone building. The Skytears mixed in usually remained very cool, lending their weight to the construction,with the rest both taking from and insulating the crushed Skytears. (Studies today truly showcase it withstanding the test of time. EE Concrete structures simply grow denser and less dense as temperature fluctuates. Cracks never appear in it, as there are no cracks for ICE to enter and expand. This mostly shows Skytears strange properties and how it can affect objects when mixed into them.)

These were used to built long term just about everywhere that needed to last, often being used in defensive structures.

Elden secret: Crushed Skytears have smaller surface areas, which means leaving it cold, such as high in the treetops, could allow it to be mixed into other things to give the resultant mix weight and density. This is actually how they made arrowheads, chipping Skytears and keeping it in the cold for long periods of time till it's base state changed. The excess Skystone was mixed into other things during manufacturing processes to imbue an effect.

The Skytears we were first given was left in sunlight, and stored lower down, and so had a lighter base state.

---

Eld has their own tricks. Here is a new one though. Having it now means we can use it later, and it keeps our fortifications specialty up to date.

---

Skystone Cannonballs

A few things to note about Skytears before we get into this. First, dropping a Skytear into magma, not something that helps. It just floats up and up very quickly as it cools, and then keeps going. Same applies with trying to forge it, Skytears just don't do traditional forging in it's current state.

However, there is a solution to this. After proving our reliability, they have entrusted to us a Secret to make Skytears heavier, Skystones as they are. Put simply, by cooling it in cold water, it becomes dense. And by breaking Skytears beforehand into pieces, the resulting pieces after this are even more dense. Smaller pieces have higher density after this. Afterwards, freezing them by burying them in snow or cold earth for a couple of hours causes their density to be very high for their size. And this becomes their base status even after unearthing.

These new pieces also have something else going for them, they can be melted down in a forge and recast, though the heat needed is rather high. (We also tested with the magma again, and a completed piece still floated up, though very slowly and after a long time compared to before.)

Casting them into cannonballs, we have ammo that is very dense, heavy, and strong. Perfect for sinking ships and tearing down walls and gates. Or people we face. The Skystone averages out to the density of the pieces used in the recast, so some were too heavy, but by refining the quality control of the process, we've got a good Skystone Cannonball.

Quote from: 設備修訂方案

Revisions
NOLAS: (2) TricMagic, Vostok
Colonial And Protectorate Forces (CAP Force) and the Dragon: ()
Sunic Cannonball: (1) Vostok
Etroan Spear: ()
Eld-Etroa Cement:()
Skystone Cannonballs: (1) TricMagic

Forging process for denser Skystone, as compared to lighter Skytears. Though it's mostly making them denser in the first place, and the liquid form reflects it's density.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Revision Phase)
Post by: Stirk on January 28, 2020, 02:48:01 pm

Quote from: 設備修訂方案

Revisions
NOLAS: (2) TricMagic, Vostok
Colonial And Protectorate Forces (CAP Force) and the Dragon: (1) Stirk
Sunic Cannonball: (2) Vostok, Stirk
Etroan Spear: ()
Eld-Etroa Cement:()
Skystone Cannonballs: (1) TricMagic

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Revision Phase)
Post by: Jilladilla on January 31, 2020, 10:54:53 pm

Fluff isn't quite what I had in mind, but close enough and I'm in no condition to really try to re-fluff it... Apologies for the tie.

Quote from: 設備修訂方案

Revisions
NOLAS: (2) TricMagic, Vostok
Colonial And Protectorate Forces (CAP Force) and the Dragon: (2) Stirk, Jilladilla
Sunic Cannonball: (2) Vostok, Stirk
Etroan Spear: ()
Eld-Etroa Cement:()
Skystone Cannonballs: (1) TricMagic

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Revision Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on February 01, 2020, 09:02:01 am

Quote from: Jilladilla on January 31, 2020, 10:54:53 pm

Fluff isn't quite what I had in mind, but close enough and I'm in no condition to really try to re-fluff it... Apologies for the tie.

Quote from: 設備修訂方案

Revisions
NOLAS: (2) TricMagic, Vostok
Colonial And Protectorate Forces (CAP Force) and the Dragon: (3) Stirk, Jilladilla, TricMagic
Sunic Cannonball: (2) Vostok, Stirk
Etroan Spear: ()
Eld-Etroa Cement:()
Skystone Cannonballs: ()

Could at least vote NOLAS Too.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Revision Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on February 01, 2020, 10:49:13 am

Quote from: Votebox

Revisions
NOLAS: (2) TricMagic, Vostok
Colonial And Protectorate Forces (CAP Force) and the Dragon: (4) Stirk, Jilladilla, TricMagic, Madman
Sunic Cannonball: (3) Vostok, Stirk, Madman
Etroan Spear: ()
Eld-Etroa Cement:()
Skystone Cannonballs: ()

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Revision Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on February 01, 2020, 11:31:29 am

Quote from: Madman198237 on February 01, 2020, 10:49:13 am

Quote from: Votebox

Revisions
NOLAS: (2) TricMagic, Vostok
Colonial And Protectorate Forces (CAP Force) and the Dragon: (3) Stirk, Jilladilla, Madman
Sunic Cannonball: (3) Vostok, Stirk, Madman
Etroan Spear: ()
Eld-Etroa Cement:()
Skystone Cannonballs: ()

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Revision Phase)
Post by: Twinwolf on February 01, 2020, 10:29:08 pm

Quote

Colonial And Protectorate Forces (CAP Force) and the Dragon:
While Etroa offered protection to lesser nations, it requires that they pull their own weight. Specifically the protectorate and colonial forces are required by treaty to offer soldiers to the Etroan military to use as we please. The number of soldiers is small, but with the caveat we get to decide which soldiers are chosen. Naturally we chose the best of each bunch. As a result the CAP force acts as an elite multi-culture unit, with the best equipment and training available at the time. Their strength and bravery would bring all of Etroa together, inspiring the common soldier to follow their example.

They often acted as cavalry forces, as the horse would be provided by the protectorate state by the treaty. As such a new variant of the sunic-cartridge musket was created in the sunic dragon. Embracing the short range power of sunic firearms, the sunic dragon is a cut-down "blunderbuss pistol" firing multiple, smaller sunic lead balls held in the paper cartridge like a shotgun shell. This increases the area of impact greatly, allowing it ignite multiple points on its target or to hit multiple targets should they be in close formation. They would carry multiple pre-loaded dragons around with them while in the field, using the speed and maneuverability of their mounts to get close enough to enemy lines to make them devastating (either as cavalry or "dragoons" who dismount before engaging, named after their iconic weapon).

Decorating these weapons to look like the other kind of dragon was common for high-quality pieces, such as those used to guard wealthy merchant ships.

Difficulty: Hard (-1)
Rolls: 5+4-1 = 8 (Average)

The colonial and protectorate forces came into being during Etroa’s first protectorate war in defense of Eld. The small nation lacked advanced firearms, but had rather competent cavalry. The cavalry had significant difficulty against the pike-and-shot tactics of the enemy armies, however. Etroan military officers loaned to Eld’s military came up with a solution. Elden horses and cavalrymen were put under the command of Etroan officers, with the equipment that entailed. The soldiers, combining mobility and ranged firepower, were instrumental in Etroan and Elden success in the war.

After that war, Etroan military officers were impressed with the performance, and formalized the tactic into the army, requesting the invention and construction of new equipment to arm them. This led to the creation of the “dragon” pistols, one handed weapons that take loads of many small sunic lead shots rather than a single larger one. While they can’t really pierce armor due to their size, the spread and number of impacts when fired in close range can easily find gaps to go through to hurt and burn the man inside, never mind what it would do to unarmored horses.

Quote

Sunic Cannonball:
Applying the military knowledge of the infantry round to cannons, so enemy ships actually catch on fire. Etroans all wonder why we didn't think of this sooner. The sunic cannonball is a cannon ball made of sunic lead specialized in anti-ship warfare. It hits the ship. The ship hits the bottom of the sea. What more is there to say?

Difficulty: Easy
Rolls: 1+6+1 = 8 (Average)

There was quite a bit more to say, but Etroan engineers made it work. The idea - sizing up sunic lead - was quite simple indeed, but did have some issues; namely, the ratios used in the creation of musket and pistol sunic lead balls lead to the cannon shells igniting before they’d actually left the barrel. It took some time, but Etroan engineers found a ratio that maintained the fiery effects of sunic lead without causing premature detonations. The sunic lead cannonballs were a bit more difficult to make, but were a terror on the seas when they were used. While they had no more effect than regular cannonballs when shooting below the water line, they could make hits that didn’t start taking on water just as bad, setting fire to ships (sometimes even if it pierces right through).


[I swear, I don’t weight these rolls, my dice just have rolled a whole lot of average in this game.]

---

The Industrial Era

Throughout history, Etroa has been on the cutting edge of technology. As the world moves into the age of industry, that remains the case. The world is changing faster than it ever has, and Etroan engineers endeavored to keep up. For many, this age saw the move from farm to factory. Living standards for some raised, and lowered for others. Many were hopeful for the technology of the era. But others knew well that it would lead to the greatest bloodshed the world has seen. Another power rises overseas; on a continent far away, the Yuzuan Empire has been created in iron and gun smoke; it conquered it's neighbors, and it's ships have been seen in both Etroan and Askian waters. It was obvious that they were planning an invasion.

You have two designs this turn. For your first prompt, create a military design; what weapon represented Etroan efforts to repel the invasion? For your second prompt, design something that most represents industrialization for Etroa.

Spoiler: Prelimary Proposals (click to show/hide)

Designs
Tamin Orodruin: The Tamin Orodruin caldera, while it’s status as the center of the world is debated, is the cradle of metalworking - it’s resources and the easy access to heat helped Etroans develop the trade early, and they have improved on it in the time since.

Sunshard Spears: Bronze spears tipped with sharpened sunseeds, a weapon combining two unique factors of Etroa. It causes heavy burns where it pierces - and while it cauterizes the wounds such that bleeding out isn’t a worry, the pain can often be incapacitating all the same.
   -Maclimire Craftswords: Before they can take an apprenticeship, an Etroan blacksmith must first craft a Maclimire to be recognized as a master. The swords are much like their cousins, the sunshard spears, in how they use sunseeds to turn already bad wounds into lethal stabs, although a bit better in close range.

Etroan Water Purifiers: Devices used in the ritualistic cleansing of water. Effective at making water safe to drink, although used primarily for ritual rather than day to day use.

Lunguma, The Heavy Hand: A bronze apparatus worn on the arm and part of the body. Using the power of fairly high pressure and steam created by sunseeds and water, it drives a bronze piston with speed into whatever is in front of it. While too unwieldy for combat use despite the attempts of several youths, it allows combat engineers to rapidly build defenses given a couple hours.
   -The Angamolen of Damrod: A large ironworks created by the great smith Damrod after his invention of the Heavy Hand. Using similar technology, the forge would later be an example for others to follow, making it easier to forge large amounts of metal into usable shape.

Sunic Cartridges: Special ammunition for Etroan musketmen, using Sunic Lead. While it doesn’t pierce as well as traditional ammunition, it easily ignites on impact.
   -Sunic Cannonballs: Sunic lead cannonballs, with a bit more lead and a bit less sunseed in the formula to avoid premature detonation, lending an incendiary exponent to Etroan naval and ground cannons.
   -Colonial and Protectorate Forces: Cavalry equipped with sunic lead blunderbuss-pistols, serving as fast attack forces capable of shredding infantry formations from outside of bayonet or pike range.

Skytear Galleons: Huge cargo ships with skytear-infused support beams. Incredibly difficult to actually sink due to the use of skytears and sunseeds to reduce density and lighten it as it takes on water.

Resources and Interactions
Sunseeds: Iridescent stones resembling opals, with fantastical properties focused around heat. When making contact with water, it rapidly heats up. When mixed with lead, it creates Sunic Lead, which is pyrophoric, igniting in the air and setting fire to targets hit with it. Not much is known about it, but it surely has potential.

Skytears: A pitch black stone, with fantastical properties focused around density. It changes density in response to temperature, with higher temperatures reducing density.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 3 - Revision Phase)
Post by: Stirk on February 01, 2020, 10:42:35 pm

Etroan Railwalker:

One of the disadvantages of using trains in warfare was the rails themselves. Even if you cover the train in enough arms and armor to make a battleship blush, the enemy just has to place some explosives on your vulnerable track to sabotage the entire effort. To combat this weakness, the railwalker was created. It functions as a light armored train in practice, with a single 24-pounder howitzer on top of an odd looking train engine of the compact Lunar/Sunic style. It has a vertical, boxy design with two "rooms", the lower floor being the engine room to allow operation and maintenance on the engine and the upper being the "gun deck" where the howitzer would be loaded and operated. The lack of a coal cart and other bulky necessities meant the entire contraption was half the size of a comparable foreign design, lacking a visible steam cloud. A portion of steam would be dedicated to granting heat to skystone ballasts in the second floor and roof of the first, helping to bypass the issue of weight from the double Decker design.

Now where the "Walker" part comes in! The railwalker's wheel had a series of joints on the inside, design to be fitted with a series of skystone "Legs" reinforced with steel. When a breached line was reached, four would be placed on each wheel opposite of the other side's configuration. The legs would act as a second "wheel", raising the railwaker several inches above the ground with the assistance of extra steam being directed to the skystone's ballasts and released from a secondary reservoir externally to the legs with a whistle-like contraption. While a bumpy ride that requires the operators to leave the vehicle to set up, it could "walk" past damaged railways following steel cable placed by the engineers, allowing them to safely bypass breaches or utilize damaged but not completely destroyed tracks. Variants would replace the howitzer with a repair room (letting them pave the way for more traditional vehicles), a troop cart, or simply supplies needed on the frontline. This would come in handy during the defensive portion of the invasion, allowing Etroans to utilize their extensive internal rail system even through enemy attempts at sabotage.

Boom! Train Mecha nonsense!

Reaper Gatling Gun:
With the advent of modern warfare, Etroans found themselves very capable of making powerful weaponry. Perhaps the best example is the "Reaper" Gatling gun, so called because it cut down enemy lines like a scythe cuts down wheat. Three factors gave them the advantage over foreign designs: First, a compact steam engine could allow the machine to rotate at a consistent and swift rate. Second, moonstone-water pockets alongside the barrels kept them form overheating allowing for this increased rate of fire. Third, skytear used in the construction allowed this "heavy weapon" to be incredibly light weight (with the assistance of heat from the steam engine) to the point it could be carried by hand and fired from a tripod instead of needing a gun carriage. Altogether this made for an incredibly effective weapon for infantry forces, with larger variants being placed on ships, trains, and more traditional carriages. Typical designs would have eight barrels in .45-70, fed by gravity with a hopper, of the relatively new brass cartridge type using black powder as a propellant.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on February 02, 2020, 08:58:13 am

Spoiler: Not yet, sadly (click to show/hide)

Military: Skytear Submarine

Through advances over the past years, and the invention of Moonseeds, Sunseeds that were frozen and began to take on the aspect of Cold to Sunseed's Heat, the Skytear Submarine was devised. Through the use of Skytears, Moonseeds, and Sunseeds in it's construction, it could raise and lower itself in the water at great speed.

Not only that, it made use of Sunseeds and valves to propel itself. By opening the valave, seawater would enter an area Sunseeds rested, which would superheat the water, sending it pushing against the water flowing in.
At that point, how the pipes were made would come into effect, with one side of the water overpowering the other. And so water flowed in from the sides, and was pushed out through the back, turning a fan which powered an electric generator. This fan also helped draw more water in at the same time, helping with the propulsion.

For torpedoes, HE/SL(High Explosive combined with Sunic Lead} was used, which would explode on contact with a ship, sinking them even as any ammo stocks caught fire. The fan which propelled them was electric.

This made Etroan waters extremely dangerous to be in, with the shaping of the ship allowing it to appear, fire, and disappear too quickly to react to in most cases. These Submarines patrolled our many waters protecting us and our allies' shores.

---

We gained Skytears, so let's use them for Subs to sink the ships. Also, for the CIV Design, Skyships. Let us take to the sky and depths of the sea!
... Honestly, might be best to get the Eclipse Engine first, then revise up a basic Zeppelin. Eclipse Engine, the work on our subs, and basics. Boom, Supply Line in the sky.

---

Industrial: Eclipse Engine

The Eclipse Engine was Etroa's greatest work, centuries in the making. Since the creation of Lunguma, The Heavy Hand, thousands of brave engineers tried creating steam propulsion, with varying catastrophic results. However, with the entry of the Industrial Age, and the invention of Refrigeration after 1834, and the Ice-making machine in 1854, finally, one group of scientists managed in 1857.

The solution turned out to be the creation of Moonseeds, a heretofore unknown aspect of Sunseeds. By cooling Sunseeds in a 12 Degree Temperature over the course of a day, their nature changed. Instead of Heat, Cold. This one result changed Steam Engine research.

This led to the creation of the Eclipse Engine, which could turn a gear near eternally with little additional water needed. Once water has filled the system, and the system closed, it kept turning water to boil, to steam, then back to water, all in a smooth ever flowing process.

This would eventually lead to the creation of Steam Vehicles, Paddleboats, Turbines for electricity generation. Anything that could use the Eclipse Engine's steady work to turn gears, fans, pistons and shafts, it could be created. The Eclipse Engine proved a turning point in Etroa from the Shackles of the Past to the Clean Energy of the Future.

---

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigerator (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigerator)

As a note, Moonseeds basically show opposite reactions, producing cold instead of heat. What this means would have to be discussed, but for now, the can cool water and condense the water vapor of steam.

---

Military: War-Airship

The War-Airship came about from a number of factors. The first was Refrigeration, which led to the creation of Moonseeds, and later the eclipse Engine. The second was the method of Welding Skytears together, which allowed greater craft to be built. And the third was the wish to travel in the sky by both Etroa, Eld, and quite a few others.

The first War-Airship used Moonseed-cooled water, and Sunseed-boiled water, allowing us to control our altitude. Combined with steam engines turning turbines, which moved the fans to propel the ship, we could finally fly.

Well, Float anyway. The first War-Airship was made up of multiple beams held together, forming a smoothed box. This held up a lower area where the ship was controlled. Cargo space and living quarters. And on the outer edges held Artillery, which could be aimed at foes below. thanks to the high position, they were very effective at bombing areas on the ground. And these ships sailing above the sea could also strike at sea-bound ships in the same way.

While they did not entirely replace Sea Ships, they were used for carrying supplies, troops, and bombarding ground troops out of reach of their own attacks. It wasn't the fastest thing, but for it's time, it changed warfare forever, sending it's enemies to aim for the sky themselves.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on February 06, 2020, 12:02:56 pm

Quote from: More people should be coming up with ideas

Military
Railwalker: ()
Reaper Gatling Gun: (1) Stirk
War-Airship: ()
Civilian
Eclipse Engine: (1) Stirk

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on February 06, 2020, 01:03:11 pm

Quote from: Stirk on February 06, 2020, 12:02:56 pm

Quote from: More people should be coming up with ideas

Military
Railwalker: ()
Reaper Gatling Gun: (1) Stirk
War-Airship: (1) TricMagic
Civilian
Eclipse Engine: (2) Stirk, TricMagic

Just us, sadly. Forward to the Age of Steam Flight.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on February 06, 2020, 09:37:26 pm

Well, let's get this rolling. Military...

Quote

Angwilin, 'Iron Birds'
As time went on, the Galleon was superceded in military service by the tall ship, and the ship of the line. then, recently, by the ironclad frigate. However, as time went on we also found more and more Skytears and more and more ways to work them, and the day of Etroan naval supremacy was not yet over.

Iron was, initially, realized to be a rather poor material for armor. Outside of warm oceans, impure iron shatters instead of deforms, sending splinters deadlier than those of a wooden warship scything through unfortunate crewmen any time an iron-hulled or iron-armored warship is struck, necessitating thick backings of dense wood. For Etroa, however, the issues were much lessened. Our much higher-quality iron allowed us to suffer far fewer splinters or shattered plates and make early progress into utilizing proper steel for armor, and searing the wooden backing beams with superheated Skytears actually had the effect of making them incredibly dense, able to absorb splinters easily and hold the iron hull and armor together.

Another advantage was our prevalent steam technology, leading to Sunseed-powered steam engines with no need for fireboxes or elaborate constructions of channels and pipes to distribute heat as efficiently as possible. Simply run water into a boiler tube with Sunseeds at the bottom, and pipe the steam from the top. When steam warships rose, ours with the first, the fastest, and the most reliable.

The final essential advantage was the true exploitation of the power of Skytears: They can, of course, manipulate density, so most of the internal portions of the ship were abnormally lightweight, in fact parts of the upperworks were negatively buoyant, in a reverse of the wooden backings' alterations. There was one final trick Etroan vessels had: pumping mass amounts of superheated steam from a set of Sunseeds onto sets of Skytears allows our most modern, most important, and most expensive vessels to actively take flight. Water propellers are, of course rather minimally effective at propelling a ship out of the water, so this trick was mostly utilized as a way to increase the range of the ship's own guns, terrify the enemy, or outright (temporarily) escape the enemy's weaponry. Weapons were not installed on the bottom of the ships, as most of the time they had to stay on the surface. However, if the wind was blowing the right way, sometimes they could be pushed along in the air.

That might be....a little over the top. They'd certainly be rare, but powerful. Might make more sense to adapt the wooden sailing frigate to a flight-capable warship. Actually, no, I'll categorically state that adapting a wooden sailing warship to floating would make more sense. It would need some means of turning, but wind propulsion would still work. You just need a replacement for hydrodynamic drag to allow the ships to maneuver. Or I guess they could continually set down in the water in order to maneuver? Maybe use steam "jet" propulsion?

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on February 07, 2020, 07:29:12 am

This interaction has the isue of stating Skytears have a line from where heating them makes them less dense, then more dense. Superheating them is likely to have some containment problems though. Along with just sinking the ship entirely? Density heavier than air will cause it to be heavy.

Maybe change it to spongy, but then we get into floating in the air.

As for something simple-ish.

---

Military: Skyship

When Skytears are frozen in water, and then superheated, it cracks apart into gas. And when mixed with Helium, the resulting gas is lighter than Hydrogen when heated. He-St is also non-flammable, so it became the go to method for lifting airships. Just fill the canopy with it, and use Sunseeds to heat it through a circulating water system. This will boost it's buoyancy, lifting the ship into the sky.

Combined with steam-screw propellers for propulsion, we took to the air in Skyships. And these Skyships held the Artillery we had produced, launching explosive rounds down onto the battlefield and sea both. And another aspect of HE-St made itself known. When the heated form found a hole, the outside cool air actually kept a good deal from escaping immediately, creating a type of density seal. This did cause the Skyship to tilt and lose buoyancy, but allowed for it to land safely.

From this, a Skyship made full use of our metalworking to be covered in armor and supports rather than pure cloth, protecting the lifting mechanism, with decks hanging down from it where the rest of the Skyship's mechanisms were, including the Artillery cannons. With the propellers hanging out near the back and the sides.

He-St, commonly known as Hest in common speak. The Helium ends up taking on some of Skytear's properties. Heating it cause buoyancy(from density change), while cooling it condenses it's density. Fundamentally, it's rather light, acting mostly like a slightly heavier helium when at normal temperatures. Temperature differences, such as Hot Hest meeting cold air, can cause it to solidify like an air wall. Though this doesn't last as the temperature normalizes over time.

---

Theoretically, if Cooled Hest met hot air, it would cause a sudden burst of expansion. Though that is only theoretical at this point, and may not be true.

Interestingly, it doesn't actually affect humans in it's heated state or normal state. Though it does cause suffocation if no air is nearby for one to breath. It just doesn't enter the lungs at all due to trying to escape the heated body. Will cause a buildup of CO2 in the body if surrounded by it.

Note the notes below the line are mostly fluff... Physics and it trying to float upward when heated.

---

Military: Sky Carrier

In this age, we succeeded at mixing Skytear dust into Iron, changing it. Sky Iron is interesting, maintaining Skytear's properties. Beams of the stuff could be heated, giving an amazing amount of lift to the structure it was attached to. This was used to build the sky carrier, a ship made up of crisscrossed Sky Iron beams heated through Sunseed water circulation. Steam-screw powered propellers shaped for air propelled it through the sky effortlessly.

The shape was curved with gentle slopes on the bottom, with the propellers protruding from it's sides. The rest of the ship looked more like other regular Galleons of old, with wood being key, mixed with metal armor. They were powered modernly for it's time of course, as mentioned using the method for turning propellers. It's balance was perfect for flight.

Atop the ship rested the various guns of the ages, being updated as new versions came to be. As for the rest, it had the masts and sails for sailing on the sea, though when airborne, they would be furled most of the time, only being unfurled slightly when making turns and correcting course, the wind coming into them allowing for the ship to make good turns. On the sea, it registered 7 knots. During flight, the furled masts acted to help keep the ship steady.


Later one, with the creation of steel by Etroa, the Sky Iron process was used, making Sky Steel and mostly replacing the iron version. The Sky Carrier throughout all it's versions allowed Etroa to loom over the land and sea, raining down destruction on ships and armies alike. As well, cargo versions existed, and the Sky Carrier fulfilled Etroan dreams of flight.

Reaction Note: Mixing the Skytear powder into iron confers Skytear's properties to the result once cooled. As steel has iron as a major component, this would naturally lead toward Sky Steel becoming a factor later on when steel was created. Though for the current Phase, Sky Steel is not yet a thing.

Note that the self-upgrade aspect is more tilted toward advancement over the ages. The first version would only have weapons of that time, while later versions would be made with newer weapons.

Also normal, the fact that being able to fly effectively made these ships the cargo carriers of their time, bypassing water trade routes most times.

Quote from: More people should be coming up with ideas

Military
Railwalker: ()
Reaper Gatling Gun: (1) Stirk
War-Airship: ()
Skyship: ()
Sky Carrier: (1) TricMagic

Civilian
Eclipse Engine: (2) Stirk, TricMagic

---

Potential revision

Frozen Earth

The FE Shell is made up of crushed moonseed and oil, turned into a gel, that when sufficient impact occurs, drains all heat in the surrounding area in one burst. This creates a Frozen Earth effect, in which everything in that area has the heat leached out of it, water freezing to ice in the process.

Used on ships in the water, it turns them into literal icebergs, freezing the surrounding water, cooling the metal to cracking, and generally halting all operation. On land though, the effect is mostly limited to the area it hits. Though in cases of rain or high humidity the effect is amplified.

As a weapon, it is especially effective against ships and aircraft. On ground targets, less so than an explosive round, which is cheaper to produce. Anything hit directly will be effectively stalled and dead on the ground though.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on February 07, 2020, 05:50:31 pm

Support Balloons:
During this era, hot-air balloons where becoming common even outside of our protectorate alley. Other nations attempted to use it as a spotter with some success - but the limitations meant they had to tether the creation to the ground to keep it from floating away (and so the enemy positions could be reported using the tether). Etroans where able to utilize skytears to create a much more solid balloon with the assistance of sunstone boilers...and equip the balloon with low-density weaponry utilizing the same material. This allowed the Support Balloon to act in a more direct combat roll, firing "heavy" weapons from a fortified and elevated position in the sky, as our weapons platform is significantly more difficult to shoot down then conventional balloons that found themselves vulnerable to enemy small arms. The "Land" version would often be equipped with shell-firing cannons in addition to fortified rifleman positions, later utilizing Gatling guns on approaching infantry. It would be stuck in place (unless attached to a train), their placement was assisted by using other support balloons to scout for proper deployment locations. The "Navy" version would be tethered to its mother-ship, typically equipped with a single naval gun allowing it to engage enemy ships.

That is probably the most we could get out of a "skyship" this turn IMO. Should probably edit it better if anyone was actually interested :V

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on February 07, 2020, 06:02:21 pm

This isn't last era, nor the one before. Skytear balloons are not a new idea.

This is the industiral era, where we prep our launce to steam power fully, and use the might of industry to process ore, wood, and Skytears toward finally lifting of the ground into the sky.

Note that SRs obviously break progression, and the first Zeppelin made it's flight in 1900. It may not yet be that time, but Skytears are the density manipulation material. Lighter than air is doable. Turbine-driven fans are doable. All that is left is the roll.


The modern steam turbine was invented in 1884, as an example, so we are more that close enough. And mine doesn't actually mention what type is used.

This is not a Gun strik, so I don't really pay into your view of it not being doable but for the most simplistic ballons. It doesn't help that you include low-density weaponry in your design... You want guns, not Skyships.

Skyships give us a huge advantage over our foes, quite literally. And bombardment from above is always a valid tactic.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on February 07, 2020, 06:09:28 pm

Quote from: TricMagic on February 07, 2020, 06:02:21 pm

This is the industiral era, where we prep our launce to steam power fully, and use the might of industry to process ore, wood, and Skytears toward finally lifting of the ground into the sky.

No we don't :V

Quote

Note that SRs obviously break progression, and the first Zeppelin made it's flight in 1900. It may not yet be that time, but Skytears are the density manipulation material. Lighter than air is doable. Turbine-driven fans are doable. All that is left is the roll.

Turbofans are absolutely not a thing yet

Quote

This is not a Gun strik, so I don't really pay into your view of it not being doable but for the most simplistic ballons. It doesn't help that you include low-density weaponry in your design... You want guns, not Skyships.

You are putting guns on your skyships too. 🤔
It is a military design in the industrial era. Unless we try to make it the civi design we're strapping guns on it.

I'd rather go with the fancy gatling gun, but everyone else seems to be airshippy.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on February 07, 2020, 06:25:31 pm

Taking a look, it seems I'll need to look more deeply into fan-drive options.

Also, turbofans? I was thinking more electricity driven fans. With the turbine powering them.

hmm.

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steamship#Screw-propeller_steamers

The first screw-driven propeller steamship introduced in America was on a ship built by Thomas Clyde in 1844 and many more ships and routes followed.

Hmm, probably switch over to that, to be more in line with the time. It's closer to aircraft, but knowledge of those hadn't actually changed much over a 100 years. And there isn't a huge difference between it and sea propellers, both move a fluid. Thankfully we only require thrust, rather than enough speed for liftoff.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on February 07, 2020, 09:15:29 pm

Quote from: Just getting the missed ideas

Military
Railwalker: ()
Reaper Gatling Gun: (1) Stirk
War-Airship: ()
Angwilin, 'Iron Birds': ()
Skyship: ()
Sky Carrier: (1) TricMagic
Support Balloons: ()

Civilian
Eclipse Engine: (2) Stirk, TricMagic

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on February 08, 2020, 03:08:54 pm

As a design that is more typical of me, though likely not a this turn thing.

Sky Tear

The Sky Tear is unique in how it handles the approach to flight. Using Sky Steel and numerous Sunseed heating, along with plenty of plastic, metal, and furniture. It's a cylinder which has a shaft in the middle, with the shaft connected to the greater cylinder body. And within this shaft are fans which pull air into itself, and travel out the back, powered with Eclipse Engines.

4 Fans rest within a Sky Tear. And the outer body of the cylinder is balanced so it remains steady, not turning, with weight near the bottom. Other than that, bays are in the sides, as well as it's heavy artillery near the top  and bottom of the curve which it can fire down on that below it. And throughout are Anti-air guns for point defense.

Atop this is a basic runway for faster aircraft to launch from, which has diagonal elevators to bring them down and up from the bays.

The Skytear is a unique design, being 300 feet long and having a diameter of 140 Feet, with 30 feet of that being the core where the fans reside to suck in air for propulsion. It is also rather expensive given the number of resources it uses, but effective at multiple roles from bombardment to aircraft carrier, as well as transport thanks to a flat bottom and density manipulation.

---

Otherwise known as an idea that is a bit insane and likely too expensive to be anything but NE. Sensors and cameras are included of course. And it is pretty well armored, and armed, though it has a big weak point that it protects.

---

Lightning Generator

Etroa has a very different idea about 'electric batteries'. By placing a cleaved Sunseed against a cleaved Moonseed, heat flows from the Sunseed to the Moonseed. This creates sparks of electricity. By placing a divider between them, and insulating the entire thing, you have a battery. Once it has been linked up to an active circuit, the battery will have a charge run through the divider, which triggers the heat-cold transfer. Which produces electricity.

Your standard Lightning Generator, the size of a can, lasts for around a year before the Sunseed and Moonseed equalize, rendering them inert. Less under heavy power draws.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on February 08, 2020, 09:13:03 pm

Quote from: Self-Contained Turbine Apparatus

The SCTA is a sunseed-powered steam turbine system designed to provide continuous power with limited human intervention. A new sunseed interaction is used to control the heating effects of the sunseed heating elements and recapture the steam after it is fed through the turbine stage. This allows us to create a sunseed power plant far more compact and efficient than what came before it.

The reactor core producing steam for the SCTA contains an array of sunseed heating rods and “control” rods made from a material known as Olszewskium, a sunseed alloy that can cool water that comes into contact with. By raising and lowering these control rods into the reactor assembly, we can change the extent to which they counteract the sunseeds’ heating effect and therefore the temperature of the water inside the coolant loop.

As an absolute last resort, on larger installations there is a man known as the SCRAM (or “Safety Control Rod Axe Man”) who is responsible for initiating emergency reactor shutdowns by forcibly disconnecting the control rod adjustment machinery. This causes gravity to pull the control rods into the reactor all the way, shutting down the assembly.

Steam resulting from this process is then used to spin a turbine before being fed into a condensation chamber where it is turned back into water with the help of Olszewskium. A compressor stage powered by the turbine shaft is used to keep water flowing through the system after it is recaptured by the condensation stage.
---

Olszewskium, also known as sunic alloy No. 7074:

Olszewskium is a special purpose steel alloy containing zinc, chromium, and sunseed, currently known for its ability to lower the temperature of water it is in contact with without actually producing ice. This ability combined with its resistance to corrosion and erosion made it ideal for steam recovery and as a regulator for the sunseed-water interaction.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on February 08, 2020, 09:16:17 pm

Quote from: Just getting the missed ideas

Military
Railwalker: ()
Reaper Gatling Gun: (1) Stirk
War-Airship: ()
Angwilin, 'Iron Birds': ()
Skyship: ()
Sky Carrier: (1) TricMagic
Support Balloons: ()

Civilian
Eclipse Engine: (2) Stirk, TricMagic
SCTA: (1) Vostok

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on February 09, 2020, 12:45:41 am

Quote

Flying Frigates
As the eras drag on, the Skytear-lightened galleon became the inexplicably lightweight tall ship, then the ship-of-the-line with heavy guns all over the place, lightened again by Skytears. Recently, however, we've seen the success of the "big frigate" as a way to fight an enemy superior in the number of heavy ships they can bring to bear, and the advent of steam power to allow such ships, and more recently ships of the line, to sail without wind.

But for Etroa, sailing without the wind is not really enough. We could go further, armed with the knowledge of how to fuse Skytears with cannons or wooden beams. We had mastered steam power, or at least knew enough to make much more reliable and powerful steam engines than most could. This led to the development of frigates that grew steadily faster than our enemies. Faster, and lighter....until it was realized that they could become no lighter, or they'd be useless on the sea. That was not the end, however, because native Skytears will float, when heated sufficiently, and if one thing was plentiful in an Etroan warship it was steam power and Sunseeds.

Sunseed boilers were positioned to vent steam past cages holding Skytears, such that when water was poured in superheated steam would heat the Skytears and send the ships aloft. Actual flight, of entire warships, was achieved, though at great expense and with mostly the smaller frigates that had all their major structural components seasoned with Skytears, as well as their cannons alloyed with molten Skytears as well (no mean feat, given how tricky it is to actually get a Skytear to melt before it floats away). When flying in this manner, Etroan warships could only go as the wind willed, and thus the ability was saved for desperate times or very favorable weather. Turning the sails about the masts could allow for some basic steering, but fine control could also not be counted on. However, something about seeing the warship you wish to fight rise up out of the water and turn, if rather ponderously, to aim her guns at you from a height your own guns cannot reach, convinced many would-be attackers that the battle they had sought was not one they wished to fight.

Quote from: Votebox, Confused Yet Again

Military
Railwalker: ()
Reaper Gatling Gun: (1) Stirk
War-Airship: ()
Angwilin, 'Iron Birds': ()
Skyship: ()
Sky Carrier: (1) TricMagic
Support Balloons: ()
Flying Frigates: (1) Madman

Civilian
Eclipse Engine: (2) Stirk, TricMagic
SCTA: (2) Vostok, Madman

Well that took far too long to write up.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on February 09, 2020, 08:22:26 am

Still don't really like SCTA, mostly cause it will forever lock moonseeds away. If we don't get them now when we are about to enter the ages of steam, when will we?

As for Flying Frigates, they're more floating frigates. Rising into the air has the issue of being a bigger target, especially if your only movement option is tied to wind. the fact it also offers no new 'Real Reactions' is also a major minus. I remind you of the Number of Reactions Askia has developed, and that the Skytear cages could just be replaced with Sky Iron beams.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on February 09, 2020, 10:29:51 am

Quote from: TricMagic on February 09, 2020, 08:22:26 am

Still don't really like SCTA, mostly cause it will forever lock moonseeds away. If we don't get them now when we are about to enter the ages of steam, when will we?

It has a material that does exactly the same thing as "moonseeds".

Quote from: TricMagic on February 09, 2020, 08:22:26 am

As for Flying Frigates, they're more floating frigates. Rising into the air has the issue of being a bigger target, especially if your only movement option is tied to wind. the fact it also offers no new 'Real Reactions' is also a major minus. I remind you of the Number of Reactions Askia has developed, and that the Skytear cages could just be replaced with Sky Iron beams.

1. Rising into the air makes ships functionally impossible to shoot in this time period: cannons do not have enough elevation to hit a ship that has suddenly started to fly. It also doesn't increase the meaningful target profile by all that much.
2. It does in fact serve to specify a reaction with Skytears by which we make everyday materials lighter. I'll clarify that in the proposal if necessary.
3. No, because "Sky Iron" is just extremely lightweight iron, is it not? The Skytear "cages" are simply a way to control the buoyancy of the vessel (i.e., how much the ship floats) directly. More heat = more lift, etc.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on February 09, 2020, 11:25:19 am

Quote from: Madman198237 on February 09, 2020, 10:29:51 am

It has a material that does exactly the same thing as "moonseeds".


2. It does in fact serve to specify a reaction with Skytears by which we make everyday materials lighter. I'll clarify that in the proposal if necessary.

For the Moonseeds, his is an alloy, a mix of metal and Sunseeds. While Moonseeds only require Sunseeds. Moonseeds meanwhile, mostly act as an opposite to Sunseeds.

Clarification would be good, yeah.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on February 09, 2020, 11:33:10 am

And the "alloy" is not going to be any costlier or cheaper than the "moonseeds". And the alloy he's proposing...cools things. Literally exactly like Moonseeds, except without silly temperature requirements or repeated insistence that his way is the best possible and that if we don't try his thing NOW we'll never do it.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on February 09, 2020, 11:43:59 am

Quote from: Madman198237 on February 09, 2020, 11:33:10 am

And the "alloy" is not going to be any costlier or cheaper than the "moonseeds". And the alloy he's proposing...cools things. Literally exactly like Moonseeds, except without silly temperature requirements or repeated insistence that his way is the best possible and that if we don't try his thing NOW we'll never do it.

Honestly the SCTA and Eclipse Engine are identical in every way that matters. They may as well be a same thing, if it came to making a compromise the only thing I could possibly suggest is mixing their names.

The Flying Frigates are also just the War Airship/Sky Carrier with wind power instead of attempts at steam propulsion. All your arguments against them also apply to your ship :V

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on February 09, 2020, 12:39:34 pm

?

Eclipse Engine is self contained of variable, and is it's own thing. SCTA seems to be a Turbine that is big enough to need SCRAM.

The Fly Frigates have no means of movement in the air, so they are more Floating Frigrates. Sky Carrier uses steam-powered screws to turn propellers meanwhile. Other than that, not much difference.


The Eclipse Engine will end up being used in a plane as is at some point. And cars and trains and turbines for boats. Not so sure SCTA says the same thing.


I'll note the steam propulsion bit is untrue, I'm simply using the steam-powered screws that are a technology in this era for ships.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on February 09, 2020, 12:43:00 pm

Quote from: TricMagic on February 09, 2020, 12:39:34 pm

?

Eclipse Engine is self contained of variable, and is it's own thing. SCTA seems to be a Turbine that is big enough to need SCRAM.

SCTA is explicitly a self contained unit, and the emergency shutdown isn't really size dependent.

Quote

The Fly Frigates have no means of movement in the air, so they are more Floating Frigrates. Sky Carrier uses steam-driven screws to turn propellers meanwhile. Other than that, not much difference.

They're wind powered. There is still wind in the sky >_>

Quote

When flying in this manner, Etroan warships could only go as the wind willed, and thus the ability was saved for desperate times or very favorable weather. Turning the sails about the masts could allow for some basic steering, but fine control could also not be counted on.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on February 09, 2020, 02:17:12 pm

Quote from: TricMagic on February 09, 2020, 12:39:34 pm

SCTA seems to be a Turbine that is big enough to need SCRAM.

Correction: SCTA is a turbine type. It comes in different sizes depending on what you're actually using it for (marine propulsion is different from power station which is in turn different from steam locomotive). The design just allows for SCRAM so that when you do build a hueg one there's a way to pull the plug if you have to.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on February 09, 2020, 02:33:23 pm

As far as I know, Turbines have yet to be invented? If they had been, I would attach that to the Eclipse Engine. Or be fine with SCTA. It's the creating Turbines which I am avoiding.

Eclipse Engines run off a very basic premises, which can be modified with ease for whatever your are making, as the basic idea is heating and cooling systems and continual flow.

The Eclipse Engine does not have an attached design, but as the invention that Represents Etroan Industrialization, it will sink it's way into everything we do in the future.


Main point is that turbines haven't been created, so I created an engine that can be used for anything steam powered into the future.

---

Ithil, & the Aiwenor

Ithil is created by Skytear powder in an enclosed(and anchored) foundry. Molten Copper is then added into the mix. This causes Skytear's natural reaction to change, it's density no longer changing when hot or cold, which allows it to be forged normally. Instead, when Ithil is fed with electricity, it's effective density changes, causing it to lift. The more electricity poured in, the greater the lifting force. Not only that, Ithil is highly resistant to change of shape, only being able to be molded when molten, to the point that weight can't actually flatten it's surface tension, which repeats throughout the entire structure.(Though it can crack from cannon fire)

This effectively makes it highly efficient to use in Lighter than Air craft. By setting a bar at the top of the craft and shorter ones at the sides, then feeding them, we can easily lift the aircraft into the sky.

Using this, along with the Steam Turbine on board to generate electricity, we built the Aiwenor, 80 meters long and roughly 16 meters in diameter. Comprised of aluminium paneling in an oval shape, with iron beams for supports and structure, and wood for furniture and rooms, it uses the electricity the turbine produces to move the propellers at the backside of it. Along with fins on the sides for control, it could make a solid 30 knots, and carry a lot of cargo and passengers.

Cannons were installed in the sides meant to fire down, using explosive shells, making them deadly bombardment in a time where planes did not exist. Ithil could theoretically carry tons upon tons of weight so long as enough Ithil was used, and/or enough electricity was supplied to it. Their role in bombardment and scouting from far above typical weapons can be said to have changed the face of warfare. Worst of all, they were very tough to take down even when you managed to hit them due to not using any form of gas for lift.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on February 09, 2020, 07:05:30 pm

Graf Eld Class Skyship:

Having long held the secret to lighter than air travel, an Eldian nobleman working with the CAP forces had found his ground-based transportation to be rather lacking. Taking the skytears from his homeland and the advanced engine of his empire, he created a large "ship" capable of engaging enemy forces from the air much like a battleship engages naval targets.

The ship consisted of a rigid frame, iron backed with skystone with heating pipes veined throughout, in a rough cylinder shape 131.06 meters in length 10 in diameter. Along this frame was wooden and iron paneling acting as armor. Wooden rooms would be created on the inside, mirroring the layout of a more traditional ship allowing trained sailors to take their experience into the skies. Two screw propellers powered by two separate engines of whatever design we end up deciding on allow it steer itself barring terribly uncooperative weather. Specialized "bombardment cannons", skystone-backed cannons typically with breech-loaded fixed ammunition (their cartridges designed to hug the back of the gun to prevent the shell from simply slipping out), would line the bottom sides of the column in a broadside configuration in earlier models. Later models would follow the naval advances in gun layout. By necessity, these where typically smaller than those on naval vessels - typically 12 pound or under making them more comparable to field guns. As such, rather than attempting to engage enemy ironclads head to head, it would instead use high altitude to bypass enemy ships bombarding their docks, depots, and other necessary infrastructure with explosive shells. Without the necessary infrastructure to keep their fleet going, the traditional Etroan ironclads would be able to use the much greater range provided by their (insert engine here) to engage the now coal-less, repair-less, and low on ammunition enemies on our terms allowing them to easily mop up the invader's naval forces. On land having a series of easily portable field guns had obvious advantages against enemy's formations, in addition to the strategic bombardment of supply lines, railroads, and everything else the enemy needed to function as a fighting unit.

Quote from:  Update the darn voting block when you make a design

Military
Railwalker: ()
Reaper Gatling Gun: (1) Stirk
War-Airship: ()
Angwilin, 'Iron Birds': ()
Skyship: ()
Sky Carrier: (1) TricMagic
Support Balloons: ()
Flying Frigates: (1) Madman
Ithil, & the Aiwenor: ()
Graf Eld Class Skyship: ()

Civilian
Eclipse Engine: (2) Stirk, TricMagic
SCTA: (2) Vostok, Madman

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on February 09, 2020, 08:18:48 pm

The Aiwenor
Franca Lore, and Ithil discovery.

With the Industrial Revolution, electricity became studied by the Protectorates allied to Etroa. While Etroa mostly focused on Steam Power, the nation of Franca advanced quickly in the production of Generator parts, which with Etroan partnership led to Steam Screws for ships.

However, this is mostly a side note, with the Steam Battleship Joinville (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ship_Napol%C3%A9on_(1850)) being launched in 1850, and followed by others for the next 6 years before ironclads became the new power on the seas.

Franca eventually managed to develop one of the first turbines in history, and Etroa used that knowledge in the creation of the SCTA. However, it also led to interest(and renewed funding) in the development of Skytears. An old combination that was merely curiosity before electricity was that combining finely crushed Skytear in molten copper actually removed Skytear's density shift from heat. Normally, Skytears are stubborn and always float out of any forge. However, molten copper changed this, though it was completely useless at the time.

An interesting note of this combination however, was that the alloy made of Skytears melted in copper took on a reflective hue when cooled. Moreover, with electricity available, it was discovered that this alloy absorbs electricity, becoming lighter and beginning to float. This gave us a way to use it in flying ships, so long as we could power it with sufficient electricity. Larger pieces didn't require any more electricity to achieve greater lift than smaller masses, so Ithil was forged into large cubes and connected to an electrical grid inside a ship.

So began the construction of the Aiwenor. Made of iron supports for a rigid frame, with iron as armor. Inside, wood was used for the rest, creating rooms, corridors, and furniture much like the inside of a standard ship. The specs themselves were for it to be 77 feet long, and 17 diameters at it's widest point, taking the shape of an oval. Turbines were used to generate electricity, which could power the props in the back, as well as adjust the fins on the side of the craft to control it's direction. These Turbines were also used to supply power to the Ithil cubes, embedded in the front, near the back, and smaller ones along the spine.

The Aiwenor also made use of these rooms to carry 12 pound cannons firing explosive shells downward as well as across the distant, which were mounted in it's sides, carrying 20 such cannons on each side. Using these and it's ability to fly, it could bomb targets on the ground as well as ships on the sea. This was used to strike at key points the enemy controlled on land. As well, it's height allowed it to take on a scouting role able to see farther over the sea and deal with ships approaching port towns, along with some uses to scout out enemy positions on the plains. It proved itself extremely adept during the war with the new enemy, as while they had great ships, they did not have the ability to deal with a flying target above the sea or above the land itself. And the rest of our forces used this fact flawlessly during the defense of our Protectorates.

Quote from: Quick Reaction Description Here

"more electricity = bigger shift"

In terms of Lift/Float |  Smaller Amount of Ithil + same electricity amount < Larger amount of Ithil  + same electricity amount

---

TL:DR, I think.

LORE part,
Franca is advancing towards pure wind power, as they've always used waterwheels and windmills. They are more a agriculture nation with territory to the sea thanks to one of our Protection wars a while back. (Breadbasket nation, specifically) This means port towns, trade ships, and a focus on turbines going into the industrial era. (Wind Turbines are likely their developmental end result.)

A combination effort led to the first steamship design, based of of the real world Napoléon ship.(Since this does seem like something we would develop due to a steam focus) This is all fluff leading to interest in electricity though, so.. And none of the tech is actually off, just outdated a tiny bit.


So comes in Ithil. Pour 3 Watts of Power in it(or any other number you might choose), and the density will lighten ,Use more Watts, density change is greater, meaning more lightening still it starts floating.
(As a side note, just note someone named them Watts from the Steam Engine design team.)

More mass doesn't actually take more Power to achieve a greater float effect. Pour 3 Watts in, and the density shift will be the same as the smaller piece. However, since it is larger, once density reaches the Float Level, more flotation will occur on anything it is lifting compared to the smaller piece.


The Aiwenor is effectively rooms and corridors, with cubes of Ithil built into the airship and connected up to the grid. Ithil density slowly increases over time when it isn't being fed, until it is back to normal. This is effectively the limit on how much Float they can generate, as they need to be fed Watts to maintain equalization with it's current Float Level. The cubes themselves are not much heavier than ordinary copper cubes of that size would be, and that is their base weight.

Cannons for the ship are built into the sides, and can point downward. They do have rooms around them for aiming though. Likewise, crisscrossed bars are used for view ports in places in the ship, with shutter.


Missions include Scouting & Shore/Sea Patrol, Bombardment of a Target(also floating over a battlefield making merry hell on the enemy), and Transport in some rare cases(Which is very rare due to other vessels being better suited.). See below for landings.
(It does in fact have a loading ramp, though the Aiwenor is more likely to land in water than float over land, so it's has a high and low docking area, and doors that can be sealed. For water landings, the water helps support it so it can take a turbine offline for maintenance while the other(s) continue.)
[As another note, it needs special landing points for landing and takeoff from land. Otherwise it just has to float there. It can land without them, but this tends to cause spatial troubles with rolling and damage a possibility.]

---

Quote from:  Voting: Airships, Guns, and Steam Turbines

Military
Railwalker: ()
Reaper Gatling Gun: (1) Stirk
War-Airship: ()
Angwilin, 'Iron Birds': ()
Skyship: ()
Sky Carrier: ()
Support Balloons: ()
Flying Frigates: (1) Madman
Ithil, & the Aiwenor: () Outdated, cleaned up the writing.
Graf Eld Class Skyship: ()
The Aiwenor: (1) TricMagic

Civilian
Eclipse Engine: (3) Stirk,
SCTA: (3) Vostok, Madman, TricMagic

[/quote]

With the restraints seemingly unlocked, I'm fine with the Turbine Engine, since those are definitely better. As well, voting for my current design.(Which I hope is modest enough in size) Ithil will also do well for lift since electricity is a lot easier to direct than heat, and can be used in planes eventually as well to lighten them.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on February 10, 2020, 05:55:41 pm

Quote from: votebox, cleaned up somewhat

Military
Railwalker: ()
Reaper Gatling Gun: (1) Stirk
War-Airship: ()
Angwilin, 'Iron Birds': ()
Skyship: ()
Sky Carrier: ()
Support Balloons: ()
Flying Frigates: (1) Madman
Ithil, & the Aiwenor: () Outdated, cleaned up the writing.
Graf Eld Class Skyship: ()
The Aiwenor: (1) TricMagic

Civilian
Eclipse Engine: (1) Stirk,
SCTA: (3) Vostok, Madman, TricMagic

Corrected a number.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on February 10, 2020, 08:54:17 pm

Sorcerer. We have the chance to step into greatness, far surpassing Askia's advancements.

On one side is the Steam Turbine, SCTA, which will fuel or meteoric rise to greatness. This is the metaphoric Key to the Steam/punk Age.


And on the other side, we must also decide another path. For me, that is using Skytears to take to the sky. The Sunseeds fuel the Steam Age, but Skytears fuel the age of flight and the Future of the Sky.

Think, of a castle floating in the sky, with it's own airport. It may move slowly, but such is possible for us so long as Skytears take to the sky. In this manner, Ithil is perfect. Electricity for lift, which the Turbine Design provides near limitless electricity. Indeed, it can also be used to lighten our first planes, and create bombers of great speed and light weight. Likewise, advancing the use of Skytears is a rightous cause, for the Askian Horde have already created quite a few interactions so far. We have two Special Resources, so using both effectively can lead to ever greater results.

---

Easier than trying to argue on discord.

Steam and Flight. The first is etroa's Dream, and the second Mankind's Dream. Being made without any real weak point unlike zepplins, they are floating ships in a time where Ground to Air attacks don't really exist. Major advantage there.

---

As another note.. Apparently Sane designs are not going to be voted, given Ice Ships are on the docket...

Quote from: Quick List of Insane Idea

Skytear Reaction: Flight in any way shape or form
Use Turbines for movement.

Build a Flying Keep and rain down destruction from atop it's deck.

Oh wait, I already did this, and it is being rejected even though it is Sane... The only other option would be planes but... Compared to an airship, not as impressive.

---

Purity Manipulation: The combination of Skytears and Sunseeds to trap and manipulate heat and gases into a compressed area. Used as a way to create artificial layers underground and maintain comfortable levels near the Heart Forge. As well as in the creation of steel and rarer metals.

---

Civilian: Emel -o i coe(Heart of the Earth)

When other nations were just now using Iron, Etroa lept ahead, creating Purity Cores. Crafted from Sunseeds and Skytears melted in a high-heat sealed foundry making full use of the Cauldra's heat, these gems could be used for a number of purposes. It constantly drew in heat from the surrounding area into itself, along with any gas near it that wasn't a basic gas found in the sky, like oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, and carbon dioxide.(Effectively anything more complex in the atomic table ends up being cooled till they become solid or too heavy to stay up. Hot Liquids like lava and magma also suffer from the heat leach. Though Humans are mostly unaffected, since it's point of absorption is around 99 F* and higher.) Shaped properly, it could also be triggered with electricity to release that heat along a specific path. As well, they stored that heat very well, with none of it being released to harm that which it touched.

Purity Cores allowed us to build underground near the deep veins of magma, and use that heat safely to create high temperature smithies and a safe, cool work environment. This in turn, allowed the forging of metal ores previously untouchable due to the heat needed.

Moreover, using these Purity Stones led to a revitalization of the Blacksmiths' passions an an interest in mining deep into the earth, where a number of rare metals existed. However, the biggest discovery was the creation of Steel. These two things led to ships being forged of Steel rather than iron, being lighter, stronger, and more durable. This along with the forging of special alloys proved itself key in the defense and counterattack against the enemy invasion. Likewise, steel was used to create far better guns, able to use more power due to being more durable against cracking, and hence having better range and power.

Quote from: Purity Cores Reaction Explanation

Purity Cores are made up of melted Sunseeds and Skytears. When melted with Skytears, the Skytears force the combination to lose density. The Sunseeds then end up adding Heat to the process, forcing crystallization of the Skytears. This ends up passing negative density before coming right back around to positive density.

The result is the Purity Core, a gem of brilliant colors like that of a rainbow trapped in clear glass. Due to the Density Loss, Sunseed's property has changed entirely, now absorbing heat into it's structure. The more heat is added, the more the heat is condensed. But this never actually changes it's outer temperature at all. It's only when sending electricity into it that the heat is released from it's bonds, following a specific path out of the gem. Cutting it properly allows you great control over this, and makes it perfect for creating a very high heat forge.


The Density Loss of the Sunseed, is more it's heat being released into the process. It turning right back around to become positive density, it reaches an equalization point where all heat is absorbed, hence how the gem forms. It is best to consider it a mixture of Sunseed and Skytear in a perfect harmony. And it's sphere is Heat Density specifically, being able to store large amounts until it is released. More electricity means more is released over time. It's density never changes though, it simply draws in all heat sources in it's purview. Larger ones tend to have larger areas of effectiveness.

One thing to note is that is entirely impossible to melt a Purity Stone with heat, as it simply absorbs it. And as noted, only temperatures of 99 F* and above are absorbed, at which point it stops leeching heat. Along with not actually being hot on the outside, it is safe for humans to handle.

It drawing hot gases to it is more a case of Skytear's density manipulation, in that it compacts it to solid form even as it leaches the heat, so volcanic gases and such get robbed of their poisonous ability, ending up falling to the floor and settling. Doesn't actually help against anything cooler than it's leech point though, or is gas at room temperature.

---

For an upgrade from our old stuff to the current age, along with a very interesting reaction. Being able to store heat for later has it's uses, yeah?

It's Civilian, though it is also military thanks to improving our basic stuff. The discovery of Steel is a big thing. And those Earth Forges mean forging special ores is also nice. We can probably manage to actually liquefy or evaporate Skytears and Sunseeds too, and define those reactions.


For the War Crimes section of the day, Skytear Gas causes anything it touches to compact together, forming stone and more... Exotic structures.. Just as an example Make a bomb out of it that has already had it's inner shell hardened against the effect and add an explosive to release it.

---

Icui-class: Buster Ship

By combining Skytear powder, mixing it with wood pulp, and then mixing in water and sunseed powder cooled through refrigeration, Gladyer kra is created. Boasting a defense greater than the strongest materials devised by mortals, and self-recovering, turning air and water around it to fill in any cracks that do get made in it. It is fairly lightweight for it's density, easily floating in water.

This was thanks to a property of Skytears to become denser the colder they got, and due to being mixed int the ice, this turned the resulting mixture extremely dense for it's thickness, easily beating out steel and more comparable to mangalloy and titanium.(In modern tests) Any cracks or imperfections that did form in the structure would literally drink in water to repair itself until it sealed over like a scab.


This was used to create the Icui-class Buster Ship. The base of it was built on land, rooms and wooden supports framed by canvas. This canvas was then sprayed by the quickly freezing Gladyer kra, which densified forming connections with the rest of the ice's structure, each layer connecting and compacting together. Using this to build a floating iceberg, gun encampments were planned ahead of time, wood supports where they would go. As well, areas were left in the new iceberg for propellers to go, which would be powered by the engine rooms.

Once the top of the ship was fully frozen, the platform it was built on was pushed to the sea, where the Gladyer kra immediately started drawing water to itself, growing an underwater base to match it's top.

The Icui-class made use of huge sails along with it's propellers, moving slowly. However it carried many many weapons, being at least 500 feet in diameter and it's visible top raised with towers reaching 100 feet. The Main reason they were called Buster Ships is because their weapons were huge for the time, making use of newly discovered steel for their barrels, allowing greater power. A single Buster Ship could take down an armada of lesser ships one by one. And it's tunnels beneath the surface made the resupply lines for these guns very safe. Moreover, they proved nearly impossible to board due to many ships simply running aground and tearing apart on impact. And even if you could, the corridors made them close ranged affairs in the tunnels, and death sentences if an enemy was atop it, unable to find proper cover, as the crewmen had no issues turning their guns against the ship's deck, secure in it's protection. And even then, not losing your ship while trying to board was impossible thanks to that fact.

Icui-class ships would go on to be known for being a sign of death, and later be built off of for numerous uses from sea airports to sonar and communication installations in the following ages. But the original Buster Ships would and will always be remembered for their defense and offence.

---

Given electric turbines have been removed from that STCA design.. I'm doing clean up. Only those two, but mostly cause they are older.

Quote from: votebox, cleaned up

Military
Railwalker: ()
Reaper Gatling Gun: (1) Stirk
Angwilin, 'Iron Birds': ()
Sky Carrier: ()
Support Balloons: ()
Flying Frigates: (1) Madman
Ithil, & the Aiwenor: () Outdated, cleaned up the writing.
Graf Eld Class Skyship: ()
The Aiwenor: ()
Icui-class: Buster Ship: ()

Civilian
Eclipse Engine: (2) Stirk, TricMagic
SCTA: (2) Vostok, Madman,
Emel -o i coe(Heart of the Earth): ()

Please come back once there is actually consensus.... I'd vote multiple if I could..

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on February 13, 2020, 11:52:24 am

Quote from: TricMagic on February 10, 2020, 08:54:17 pm

As another note.. Apparently Sane designs are not going to be voted, given Ice Ships are on the docket...

Oh wait, I already did this, and it is being rejected even though it is Sane... The only other option would be planes but... Compared to an airship, not as impressive.

...you do realize that rhetoric like this just makes people go "up yours" instead of listening to what you have to say, right?

Anyhow:

Quote from: Pykrete Warship Eclipse

E.R.S. Eclipse

Bottom Line Up Front: Bigass circular Pykrete warship laid out like a pentagram with guns for days.

The Bockscar is a massive floating fortress made from a wonderful new material known as Pykrete, a special type of ice fortified with sawdust that is way stronger than it has any right to be. Because of the fact that the bulk of it is literally just ice, it is incredibly easy to repair and patch up, even if it's not quite as durable as steel.

Structurally, the Murderous Ice-cube is made more or less entirely made out of Pykrete, with steel piles used to "anchor" things like machinery to the floor where necessary. Cooling is provided by Olszewskium in "rebar" form or as a structural frame of sorts depending on location to make sure our massive-iceberg-of-doom doesn't become a slightly-less-massively-dirty-puddle-of-insufficient-doom. This cooling network is heavily redundant (so the ship can stay frozen even after taking damage), and additional supplies to re-freeze the Frozen Fortress in case of damage are stored on board.

Etroa's Sawdust Saucer is laid out like the bastard child of a pancake and a hedgehog: circular hull, shitton of guns on top. The superstructure of this Weaponized Winter Wonderland is laid out in the shape of a five-pointed star (making the top-down view that of a pentagram). The bridge is situated in the middle "pentagon" and raised above the rest of the superstructure with more steel than usual to back up the Pykrete. The walls of the five "spokes" are aggressively sloped on the outside and intended to serve as parapets, providing cover for the metric fuckton of cannons ranging from rifled 15" Rodman guns to 4" breech-loading guns using the krupp horizontal sliding wedge mechanism, all on disappearing mounts behind them. The weapons in question are crammed in as tightly as we can manage without seriously hindering the gun crews and fed by powered ammunition hoists connecting the batteries to belowdecks magazines. Massive 12" seige mortars are mounted in the "wider" portions of the "spokes" on a space-available basis for even more firepower and gatling guns are placed where they can fit to provide some level of anti-boarding firepower.

Propulsion on the Great Refrigerator uses the SCTA mechanism in a belowdecks engine compartment, with steering accomplished through differential power steering. Both this and the crew quarters are insulated from the pykrete with air-gapped wood to keep the people working there from freezing to death and to keep the crew in there from getting hypothermia.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on February 13, 2020, 12:31:08 pm

Tian Warships

Tian is made up by using a closed foundry, mixing iron and slag with broken down skytears, cast off of other processes. The foundry is heated and compressed, and then left to cool. Once taken out, the new Tian can be forged normally.

Tian has a high melting point, but low density, as well as the strength of steel. This makes it a lightweight option for building. It does require either molds or special skills to craft, but Etroa has long excelled at this. As such, during the time other's used ironclads, Etroa built large ships made of Tian, far stronger than the competition. Likewise, Tian was often used for ship guns, giving them the strength to manage stronger blasts, and as such having greater range and power.

Likewise, Tian doesn't spoil, unlike iron sheets. Nor does it corrode from water, though oxidization can occur above water. Combined with the new steam powered propellers, our ships were some of the fastest and strongest of their time. This in turn led to Etroa continuing it's age old tradition of conquering it's enemies and making their resources their own, proving themselves the superior navy.

---

During the foundry process, Skytears force the dissolution of the materials. By compressing it during this time, the materials end up forming a close-packed hexagonal structure as it cools. Once that happens, it's Tian, which doesn't have any unique properties other than being very similar to Titanium.

Or at least, that's the explanation. Forcing structure changes and density manipulation fits Skytear's sphere, hopefully. And Tian, while requiring skytears to make, is a major step forward in metallurgy. Tian can be used in all sorts of places for something light weight, but strong. It's also a lot simpler than a NE Pykrete ship to make, as we can take ironclads and just use Tian instead.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on February 13, 2020, 12:34:10 pm

Quote from: votebox

Military
Railwalker: ()
Reaper Gatling Gun: (1) Stirk
Angwilin, 'Iron Birds': ()
Sky Carrier: ()
Support Balloons: ()
Flying Frigates: (1) Madman
Ithil, & the Aiwenor: () Outdated, cleaned up the writing.
Graf Eld Class Skyship: ()
The Aiwenor: ()
Icui-class: Buster Ship: ()
Pykrete Warship: (1) Vostok

Civilian
Eclipse Engine: (2) Stirk, TricMagic
SCTA: (2) Vostok, Madman,
Emel -o i coe(Heart of the Earth): ()

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on February 13, 2020, 01:00:22 pm

Quote from: votebox

Military
Railwalker: ()
Reaper Gatling Gun: (1) Stirk
Angwilin, 'Iron Birds': ()
Sky Carrier: ()
Support Balloons: ()
Flying Frigates: (1) Madman
Ithil, & the Aiwenor: () Outdated, cleaned up the writing.
Graf Eld Class Skyship: ()
The Aiwenor: ()
Icui-class: Buster Ship: ()
Pykrete Warship: (1) Vostok
Tian Warships: (1) TricMagic

Civilian
Eclipse Engine: (2) Stirk, TricMagic
SCTA: (2) Vostok, Madman,
Emel -o i coe(Heart of the Earth): ()

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Rockeater on February 13, 2020, 03:23:38 pm

Quote from: votebox

Military
Railwalker: ()
Reaper Gatling Gun: (1) Stirk
Angwilin, 'Iron Birds': ()
Sky Carrier: ()
Support Balloons: ()
Flying Frigates: (2) Madman, Rockeater
Ithil, & the Aiwenor: () Outdated, cleaned up the writing.
Graf Eld Class Skyship: ()
The Aiwenor: ()
Icui-class: Buster Ship: ()
Pykrete Warship: (1) Vostok
Tian Warships: (1) TricMagic

Civilian
Eclipse Engine: (2) Stirk, TricMagic
SCTA: (3) Vostok, Madman, Rockeater
Emel -o i coe(Heart of the Earth): ()

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on February 13, 2020, 05:30:05 pm

Quote from: votebox

Military
Railwalker: ()
Reaper Gatling Gun: (1) Stirk
Sky Carrier: ()
Support Balloons: ()
Flying Frigates: (1) Rockeater
Ithil, & the Aiwenor: () Outdated, cleaned up the writing.
Graf Eld Class Skyship: ()
The Aiwenor: ()
Icui-class: Buster Ship: ()
Pykrete Warship: (2) Vostok, Madman
Tian Warships: (1) TricMagic

Civilian
Eclipse Engine: (2) Stirk, TricMagic
SCTA: (3) Vostok, Madman, Rockeater
Emel -o i coe(Heart of the Earth): ()

Holy design clutter. Anyway, I really want to try counterinvasion because, well, I think it'd be pretty interesting to see what happens. This fancy empire is not likely to be any stronger than us on account of our special resources and protectorates, after all.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Failbird105 on February 13, 2020, 05:35:41 pm

Quote from: votebox

Military
Railwalker: ()
Reaper Gatling Gun: (1) Stirk
Sky Carrier: ()
Support Balloons: ()
Flying Frigates: (1) Rockeater
Ithil, & the Aiwenor: () Outdated, cleaned up the writing.
Graf Eld Class Skyship: ()
The Aiwenor: ()
Icui-class: Buster Ship: ()
Pykrete Warship: (3) Vostok, Madman, Failbird
Tian Warships: (1) TricMagic

Civilian
Eclipse Engine: (2) Stirk, TricMagic
SCTA: (4) Vostok, Madman, Rockeater, Failbird
Emel -o i coe(Heart of the Earth): ()

Eh, might as well put up some votes so that we can get a move on.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on February 14, 2020, 02:07:14 pm

Quote from: Failbird105 on February 13, 2020, 05:35:41 pm

Quote from: votebox

Military
Railwalker: ()
Reaper Gatling Gun: (1) Stirk
Sky Carrier: ()
Support Balloons: ()
Flying Frigates: (1) Rockeater
Ithil, & the Aiwenor: () Outdated, cleaned up the writing.
Graf Eld Class Skyship: ()
The Aiwenor: ()
Icui-class: Buster Ship: ()
Pykrete Warship: (4) Vostok, Madman, Failbird, TricMagic
Tian Warships: ()

Civilian
Eclipse Engine: (2) Stirk
SCTA: (5) Vostok, Madman, Rockeater, Failbird, TricMagic
Emel -o i coe(Heart of the Earth): ()

Eh, might as well put up some votes so that we can get a move on.

Well, can try to produce Tian in a revision. Maybe armor production?

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on February 14, 2020, 05:35:52 pm

Quote from: Numerical Adjustment to Votebox

Military
Railwalker: ()
Reaper Gatling Gun: (1) Stirk
Sky Carrier: ()
Support Balloons: ()
Flying Frigates: (1) Rockeater
Ithil, & the Aiwenor: () Outdated, cleaned up the writing.
Graf Eld Class Skyship: ()
The Aiwenor: ()
Icui-class: Buster Ship: ()
Pykrete Warship: (4) Vostok, Madman, Failbird, TricMagic
Tian Warships: ()

Civilian
Eclipse Engine: (1) Stirk
SCTA: (5) Vostok, Madman, Rockeater, Failbird, TricMagic
Emel -o i coe(Heart of the Earth): ()

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Twinwolf on February 17, 2020, 07:16:19 pm

Quote from: Pykrete Warship Eclipse

E.R.S. Eclipse

Bottom Line Up Front: Bigass circular Pykrete warship laid out like a pentagram with guns for days.

The Eclipse is a massive floating fortress made from a wonderful new material known as Pykrete, a special type of ice fortified with sawdust that is way stronger than it has any right to be. Because of the fact that the bulk of it is literally just ice, it is incredibly easy to repair and patch up, even if it's not quite as durable as steel.

Structurally, the Murderous Ice-cube is made more or less entirely made out of Pykrete, with steel piles used to "anchor" things like machinery to the floor where necessary. Cooling is provided by Olszewskium in "rebar" form or as a structural frame of sorts depending on location to make sure our massive-iceberg-of-doom doesn't become a slightly-less-massively-dirty-puddle-of-insufficient-doom. This cooling network is heavily redundant (so the ship can stay frozen even after taking damage), and additional supplies to re-freeze the Frozen Fortress in case of damage are stored on board.

Etroa's Sawdust Saucer is laid out like the bastard child of a pancake and a hedgehog: circular hull, shitton of guns on top. The superstructure of this Weaponized Winter Wonderland is laid out in the shape of a five-pointed star (making the top-down view that of a pentagram). The bridge is situated in the middle "pentagon" and raised above the rest of the superstructure with more steel than usual to back up the Pykrete. The walls of the five "spokes" are aggressively sloped on the outside and intended to serve as parapets, providing cover for the metric fuckton of cannons ranging from rifled 15" Rodman guns to 4" breech-loading guns using the krupp horizontal sliding wedge mechanism, all on disappearing mounts behind them. The weapons in question are crammed in as tightly as we can manage without seriously hindering the gun crews and fed by powered ammunition hoists connecting the batteries to belowdecks magazines. Massive 12" seige mortars are mounted in the "wider" portions of the "spokes" on a space-available basis for even more firepower and gatling guns are placed where they can fit to provide some level of anti-boarding firepower.

Propulsion on the Great Refrigerator uses the SCTA mechanism in a belowdecks engine compartment, with steering accomplished through differential power steering. Both this and the crew quarters are insulated from the pykrete with air-gapped wood to keep the people working there from freezing to death and to keep the crew in there from getting hypothermia.

Difficulty: Hard
Rolls: 1+1 6+4 - 1 = 9 (Above Average)

The idea of a warship made of super-strong ice had initially come up when explorers from the western Jasny Kingdom visited the north pole, and returned with tales of the gigantic ice flows they had seen. An expedition from an eccentric Etroan engineer, Hithon, later, the idea was found to be utterly ludicrous. It was, however, quite awesome. So the man went to work. Pykrete had been created by accident some years before, and was an obvious material - but it still ran into the problem of melting in the water. The solution came from, almost paradoxically, sunseeds. For thousands of years the material had been used for it’s heating properties in Etroa. It was well documented that different alloys of sunseeds and other materials would change the amount of heat produced. Hithon wondered if, with the right materials and proportions, the opposite effect could be achieved. A few years later, and the new alloy was created, Olszewskium, named for the explorer whose journey had originally inspired Hithon. While Olszewskium’s first and most prolific use would be elsewhere, Hithon moved right along.

Now with the most obvious issue circumvented and a cadre of engineers who loved the idea only a little less than Hithon, as well as a period of truce between Askia and Etroa to recover from their most recent war, they worked. While pykrete (and the variant they discovered while working on it, dubbed ‘super pykrete’, which was even stronger and more resistant to melting) was strong, it was not quite as strong as steel, if much lighter; so the ship had to be big. Bigger than any recorded to that point. Because of the size, it would be slow and it’s turning radius atrocious; so it had to have enough guns to hit a target on any side. Problems and solutions kept cropping up. Just as they finished designing and testing scale models, the Yuzuan ships were sighted off the coast. Etroa needed a new weapon and they needed it fast. Dozens of engineering teams came up with their own projects, but none were quite so dramatic as this one.

The E.R.S. Eclipse was a sight to behold. It took a good five thousand men to crew, more if you wanted redundancy, and could hold a great number more in troops and supplies. It had about as many cannons as a modestly sized fleet on it’s own, along with a compliment of marines and other weapons so that it could defend against boarding action or quite dramatically support a landing. Each spoke of the weaponized iceberg was a battleship unto itself, supported by massive guns in the central area. It was not the perfect warship - it was slow as molasses and troops often needed to dress warm. If it wasn’t already hot outside it would sometimes freeze the water in it’s path due to the sheer amount of Olszewskium used in its construction, necessitating ships to not be behind it. It’s ludicrous cost also meant that only one could be created, and significant resources were put towards keeping it in the water. But it could do the work of several large ships on it’s own, and when you need a lot of force in a not-so-huge area, it was a terrifying combatant indeed.

Quote from: Self-Contained Turbine Apparatus

The SCTA is a sunseed-powered steam turbine system designed to provide continuous power with limited human intervention. A new sunseed interaction is used to control the heating effects of the sunseed heating elements and recapture the steam after it is fed through the turbine stage. This allows us to create a sunseed power plant far more compact and efficient than what came before it.

The reactor core producing steam for the SCTA contains an array of sunseed heating rods and “control” rods made from a material known as Olszewskium, a sunseed alloy that can cool water that comes into contact with. By raising and lowering these control rods into the reactor assembly, we can change the extent to which they counteract the sunseeds’ heating effect and therefore the temperature of the water inside the coolant loop.

As an absolute last resort, on larger installations there is a man known as the SCRAM (or “Safety Control Rod Axe Man”) who is responsible for initiating emergency reactor shutdowns by forcibly disconnecting the control rod adjustment machinery. This causes gravity to pull the control rods into the reactor all the way, shutting down the assembly.

Steam resulting from this process is then used to spin a turbine before being fed into a condensation chamber where it is turned back into water with the help of Olszewskium. A compressor stage powered by the turbine shaft is used to keep water flowing through the system after it is recaptured by the condensation stage.
---

Olszewskium, also known as sunic alloy No. 7074:

Olszewskium is a special purpose steel alloy containing zinc, chromium, and sunseed, currently known for its ability to lower the temperature of water it is in contact with without actually producing ice. This ability combined with its resistance to corrosion and erosion made it ideal for steam recovery and as a regulator for the sunseed-water interaction.

Difficulty: Easy
Rolls: 5+5+1 = 11 (Masterwork)

The Self Contained Turbine Apparatus was a very technical name for what would become a staple of Etroan industry. While it was originally created, as many of Etroan advancements are, in the context of military innovation, the SCTA’s true potential went far beyond simply powering the next generation of Etroan sea vessels. Compared to the coal-fired engines of other nations, the SCTA was extremely efficient; the properties of sunseeds meant that, in essence, all you needed to make a working steam generator was a sufficiently sized sunseed (or several smaller ones) and water. And, as materials science and other aspects of engineering rapidly advanced with wartime development grants, it became easier and easier to miniaturize the process. From the inital room-sized prototype, it became possible to get a working engine onto the back of a civilian boat.

In the end, the SCTA proved the backbone of Etroa’s industrial revolution. At first, it was merely the power plant for ships (famously used in the Eclipse). Then, versions of it found their way into military factories, and then civilian ones; soon, many workshop-style factories were replaced with mass producing SCTA-powered factories. While the Etroan craftsman’s spirit ensured the survival of workshop-style factories where products were crafted with care, they were soon outnumbered by those built to get a lot of product of acceptable quality out the door as fast as possible. Although, Etroan definitions of “acceptable quality” were still rather more stringent than others. There would be more innovations in steam power in the future, but the SCTA proved a reliable and long lasting engine for the Etroan war machine and economic machine alike.

---

The Eclipse had begun to load up for war in Etroa’s greatest harbor, even as SCTA engines brought Etroa into the future. The invasion was soon to come, and Etroa would soon be ready for it. It is now the Revision Phase. You have two revisions this phase.

Spoiler: Prelimary Proposals (click to show/hide)

Designs
Tamin Orodruin: The Tamin Orodruin caldera, while it’s status as the center of the world is debated, is the cradle of metalworking - it’s resources and the easy access to heat helped Etroans develop the trade early, and they have improved on it in the time since.

Sunshard Spears: Bronze spears tipped with sharpened sunseeds, a weapon combining two unique factors of Etroa. It causes heavy burns where it pierces - and while it cauterizes the wounds such that bleeding out isn’t a worry, the pain can often be incapacitating all the same.
   -Maclimire Craftswords: Before they can take an apprenticeship, an Etroan blacksmith must first craft a Maclimire to be recognized as a master. The swords are much like their cousins, the sunshard spears, in how they use sunseeds to turn already bad wounds into lethal stabs, although a bit better in close range.

Etroan Water Purifiers: Devices used in the ritualistic cleansing of water. Effective at making water safe to drink, although used primarily for ritual rather than day to day use.

Lunguma, The Heavy Hand: A bronze apparatus worn on the arm and part of the body. Using the power of fairly high pressure and steam created by sunseeds and water, it drives a bronze piston with speed into whatever is in front of it. While too unwieldy for combat use despite the attempts of several youths, it allows combat engineers to rapidly build defenses given a couple hours.
   -The Angamolen of Damrod: A large ironworks created by the great smith Damrod after his invention of the Heavy Hand. Using similar technology, the forge would later be an example for others to follow, making it easier to forge large amounts of metal into usable shape.

Sunic Cartridges: Special ammunition for Etroan musketmen, using Sunic Lead. While it doesn’t pierce as well as traditional ammunition, it easily ignites on impact.
   -Sunic Cannonballs: Sunic lead cannonballs, with a bit more lead and a bit less sunseed in the formula to avoid premature detonation, lending an incendiary exponent to Etroan naval and ground cannons.
   -Colonial and Protectorate Forces: Cavalry equipped with sunic lead blunderbuss-pistols, serving as fast attack forces capable of shredding infantry formations from outside of bayonet or pike range.

Skytear Galleons: Huge cargo ships with skytear-infused support beams. Incredibly difficult to actually sink due to the use of skytears and sunseeds to reduce density and lighten it as it takes on water.

E.R.S. Eclipse: A massive floating castle created to repel the invading Yuzuan Empire and enable a counterinvasion. Made of super-pykrete and Olszewskium, the frozen fortress makes up for it’s nature as a single vessel and it’s incredibly slow speed with sheer volume of fire and durability.

SCTA: The Self-Contained Turbine Apparatus is a highly efficient, easy to scale up or down and quite easy to miniaturize, steam engine. It carried the industrial revolution on it’s back, powering many factories and inventions both military and civilian.

Resources and Interactions
Sunseeds: Iridescent stones resembling opals, with fantastical properties focused around heat. Not much is known about it, but it surely has potential.
   -When making contact with water, it rapidly heats up.
   -When mixed with lead, it creates Sunic Lead, which is pyrophoric, igniting in the air and setting fire to targets hit with it.
   -When used in alloyed steel along with zinc and chromium, sunseeds create Olszewskium, which cools water instead of heating it.


Skytears: A pitch black stone, with fantastical properties focused around density.
   -It changes density in response to temperature, with higher temperatures reducing density.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on February 17, 2020, 07:26:28 pm

Revisions!

CAP Lever Action "Drake":
As time went on, weapons began to have longer ranges and formations began to spread out to avoid explosives and fast-firing weaponry. By necessity the short ranged dragon found itself developing into a longer shotgun - increasing its range without depleting the killing power of sunic lead shot. During this period the forces worked with the "Drake" model lever-action shotgun. 12 gauge, 5+1 tubular magazine, breech loading with a 20 inch barrel. It would be easily capable of engaging with the standard rifleman typically armed with a single shot muzzle-loader, allowing the CAP forces to once again devastate the enemy at medium-to-close range. Its complicated mechanism would make it out of the price range for mass deployment, luckily the colonies and protectorates where still required to foot the bill for their contributions allowing our elite forces to deploy with suitable gear.

Armor Piercing Sunic Shell:
Likewise, development on the ocean meant that most combat vessels where now covered in inflammable armor limiting the viability of sunic lead cannonballs. An alternative form was created for the realities of modern warfare. First, the cannonball would be primarily cast-iron, with the head chilled with the newly developed cooling reaction to harden it. This would necessitate a cavity in the base to prevent cracking during cooling, which would later be filled with gunpowder and sunic-lead shavings. This created a two stage effect, the hardened head would crack through the armor and the gunpowder would detonate from the impact in a fiery explosion. This design should prove capable of piercing contemporary armor with ease.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on February 18, 2020, 09:27:56 am

Repost. Though with less focus on over-arcing use, and more for ships. Not that it won't get used for such eventually.

Tian Warships

Tian is made up by using a closed foundry, mixing iron and slag with broken down skytears, cast off of other processes. The foundry is heated and compressed, and then left to cool. Once taken out, the new Tian can be forged normally.

Tian has a high melting point, but low density, as well as the strength of steel. This makes it a lightweight option for building. It does require either molds or special skills to craft, but Etroa has long excelled at this. As such, during the time other's used ironclads, Etroa built ships made of Tian, far stronger than the competition. Likewise, Tian doesn't spoil, unlike iron sheets. Combined with the new STCA, these ships were some of the fastest and strongest of their time, their power only really eclipsed by the eclipse itself.

Of note. Tian happens to be non-magnetic normally, and a poor conductor of electricity.

---

During the foundry process, Skytears force the dissolution of the materials. By compressing it during this time, the materials end up forming a close-packed hexagonal structure as it cools. Once that happens, it's Tian, which doesn't have any unique properties other than being very similar to Titanium.

Or at least, that's the explanation. Forcing structure changes and density manipulation fits Skytear's sphere, hopefully. And Tian, while requiring skytears to make, is a major step forward in metallurgy. Tian can be used in all sorts of places for something light weight, but strong.

---

Densium Shells

Densium is a unique metal made of skytears forged in a closed foundry, liquidizing them, and then pressurized. Unlike the base form of Skytears, Densium was a metal that was heavy and dense. While it did retain some of Skytear's original properties, the compression caused Densium to be perfect for crafting shells which could pierce armor.

---

Ur-núte, Scout Craft

Ur-núte was created by mixing Sunseed powder into an aluminium batch. Once heated and cooled, an Ur-núte metal was formed, and could be shaped. It had a specific property, in that it forced heat from one side of itself to the other when shaped long, with the heat either being emitted into the air, a liquid, or a solid, with amazing efficiency.

Using this, we built a Scout Craft that could be launched from any ship. Made up of an STCA spinning propellers, wood for the frame, and large skytears. Ur-núte was built into the steam collection chambers, with the Olszewskium control rods only being dipped when we needed to stop the heat transfer. Ur-núte facilitated heat transfer to the Skytears, directly heating them, and granted enough lift to bring the Scout Craft into the air, making it lighter than air.

A single Scout Craft, known as an Oro, could contain 6 people, or around 4 with full equipment with the fifth piloting. They were perfect for scouting tasks during the war, and were even used for landings in the enemy's territory.

---

Quote from: Votes

CAP Lever Action "Drake": ()
Armor Piercing Sunic Shell: ()
Densium Shells: ()
Tian Warships: (1) TricMagic
Ur-núte, Scout Craft: (1) TricMagic

Reactions Needed. Every Reaction means one more thing to work with in the game proper.
Votes also needed.

Drake is built to be expensive and force our protectorates to pay for it out of their pocket, not the best thing. That and in an invasion by sea, not the most useful. Also another gun.

Sunic Lead: This created a two stage effect, the hardened head would crack through the armor and the gunpowder would detonate from the impact in a fiery explosion.

Densium, just a very dense thing. Good for armor later on, and AP rounds in general.

Tian, basically titanium. Only it is not horrendously expensive to make something from it in modern times. Given the era, it will give our normal ships a leg up.

Ur-núte. Transfer of Heat from one object to another. Used with the STCA and Skytears for the first LtA Craft. And far too small for them to have a contemporary version, though they may have made their own magnetic version instead. Ur-núte can be used later on too.


More proposals anyone? I kinda like Tian since it will allow pretty light aircraft on it's own, even before other shenanigans. And it's strength of steel is still better than the ironclads our foes use right now.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Jilladilla on February 25, 2020, 10:41:05 am

And now it's time for weird fun ideas that I think can actually work.

Timekeeper Clockwork Marksman Rifle
Ever since the classical era, Etroan craftsmen have always been fascinated with small, fine machinery. As a result, is it any wonder that the art of clocksmithing has been so much more prolific in Etroa? This fascination has also lead to some strange inventions, the Ancient Lunguma was merely the first. Created by a watchmaker turned gunsmith; the Timekeeper is a fairly bulky contraption, made to address the perceived shortcomings of a bolt-action.

The Timekeeper is the worlds first 'Clockwork Action' rifle; the trigger the weapon merely acts to arrest the motion of these mechanisms. As a result, as long as the trigger is held down, the Clockwork Action will automatically cycle through bullets and fire them, delightfully ticking the entire time, until either the magazine runs out of ammunition, or the clockwork winds down (in which case they'll need to be rewound). The mechanism was designed specifically so that a marksman did not have to 'break aim' in order to work the bolt; all they need to do is hold their aim steady and count the seconds until the rifle fires the next round; for the rifle doesn't just run like clockwork, it *is* clockwork and the soothing sound of its ticking clock will keep the time for the gunner.

With a barrel machined to the same precision as its mechanisms, a carefully adjusted set of sights, and stabilized by the fact that our soldiers will never have to take their hands off it during operation; the Timekeeper may not see universal presence due to its lovingly crafted mechanisms, but those who do carry one will do so proudly, for a better marksman rifle there is not.

(A word of notice: While it may sound like an assault rifle, it's not. The intended rate of fire is far too slow for that, the aim is for about 20-30 rounds per minute)

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on February 25, 2020, 10:56:38 am

Quote from: Votes

CAP Lever Action "Drake": ()
Armor Piercing Sunic Shell: ()
Densium Shells: ()
Tian Warships: (1) TricMagic
Ur-núte, Scout Craft: ()
Timekeeper Clockwork Marksman Rifle: (1) TricMagic

I have trouble deciding, but I think Tian is simple enough over the Scout Craft. Since it is effectively a material used for our ships rather than a ship design in itself.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on February 25, 2020, 11:16:27 am

Quote

Anor Armored Cruiser, modernized Skytear Galleon
An evolution of the use of the large frigate as a fast warship, the Anor Armored Cruiser is a more modern warship for more modern times. Like the Skytear Galleons of old, alloys of Skytears and metals lighten various elements of the ship, especially those above the waterline, to reduce topweight issues and allow more weapons and superstructure protection to be added.

The ships are powered by SCTA turbine powerplants, making them fast despite their excellent armor protection. They are armored by a fairly advanced, face-hardened steel armor plate enabled by our advanced metallurgy. Their structure is similarly composed of tough steel alloy to give them additional survivability, even beyond that given by their Skytear Galleon-inherited tendency to never sink.

The ships are covered in weapons of all sorts, with a main battery of 8" guns capable of punching straight through any ironclad warship, secondary batteries of 4" guns to deal with lighter warships and harass larger ones that get too close. Shells with Sunic interiors serve us for incendiaries capable of destroying any wooden warships still in service while devastating shore targets, while explosives and armor-piercing shells sometimes use Sunic lead components to add a little incendiary ability to their normal purpose.

These armored cruisers are the most common unit of our fleet, being less expensive than a full battleship yet capable of defeating battleships protected by only iron, and capable of resisting fire from low-velocity guns of the time due to their steel armor.

Quote from: Votes

CAP Lever Action "Drake": ()
Armor Piercing Sunic Shell: ()
Densium Shells: ()
Tian Warships: (1) TricMagic
Ur-núte, Scout Craft: ()
Timekeeper Clockwork Marksman Rifle: (2) TricMagic, Madman
Anor Armored Cruiser: (1) Madman

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on February 25, 2020, 11:25:20 am

Quote from: Votes

CAP Lever Action "Drake": ()
Armor Piercing Sunic Shell: ()
Densium Shells: ()
Tian Warships: ()
Ur-núte, Scout Craft: ()
Timekeeper Clockwork Marksman Rifle: (2) TricMagic, Madman
Anor Armored Cruiser: (2) Madman, TricMagic

[/quote]

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on February 25, 2020, 01:16:26 pm

Quote from: Votes

CAP Lever Action "Drake": ()
Armor Piercing Sunic Shell: ()
Densium Shells: ()
Tian Warships: ()
Ur-núte, Scout Craft: ()
Timekeeper Clockwork Marksman Rifle: (3) TricMagic, Madman, Vostok
Anor Armored Cruiser: (3) Madman, TricMagic, Vostok

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on February 25, 2020, 03:55:13 pm

The Helpful Hand: Over the millennium, the Heavy Hand mechanism would continuously evolve to meet the ever changing needs of the Etroan people. Attempts to use the mechanism to chop down trees developed into a single-shot-axe which further developed into a chainsaw like blade, attempts to use the pile driver in mining (in addition to setting up the tunnel structures) evolved to hammer-picks evolved into drills, seed sewers sew seeds, reapers harvest, anywhere the heavy hands could reduce labor they did. These power tools are collectively known as Helpful Hands. In modern times each runs on a SCTA engine with a suitable size for their job. A true demonstration of their power was shown when Etroa begun laying out their railroad, while other nations struggled with hoards of poor desperate workers performing back-breaking labor Etora was capable of taming the wild lands with the simple clanking and hum of their machinery as it chopped down raw resources, effortlessly hammered the rail lines into place, and blasted through any obstacle in a fraction of the time and with a fraction of the effort other nations required.

In a military context these tools would continue to find use shaping the battlefield, putting up forts, and digging up trenches. One more notable aspect is the addition of Olszewskium "Sun-Up Walls", a play on their short duration in addition to Etroa's love of sun-based names. A special helpful hand has an intake for wood and water in the back, chopping the wood into sawdust and mixing it with the water. It is then frozen by an Olszewskium spike at the front, which is capable of retracting with great force to allow it to escape any ice that manages to trap it. This allows HH users to create temporary ice structures without needing to expend any resources permanently. This can then be used to reinforce defensive positions or cut off avenues of advance...at least until the structures melt.

Quote from: Vostok on February 25, 2020, 01:16:26 pm

Quote from: Votes

CAP Lever Action "Drake": ()
Armor Piercing Sunic Shell: ()
Densium Shells: ()
Tian Warships: ()
Ur-núte, Scout Craft: ()
Timekeeper Clockwork Marksman Rifle: (3) TricMagic, Madman, Vostok
Anor Armored Cruiser: (3) Madman, TricMagic, Vostok
Helpful Hands: ()

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: The Ensorceler on February 27, 2020, 01:35:17 pm

Quote from: Votes

CAP Lever Action "Drake": ()
Armor Piercing Sunic Shell: ()
Densium Shells: ()
Tian Warships: ()
Ur-núte, Scout Craft: ()
Timekeeper Clockwork Marksman Rifle: (3) TricMagic, Madman, Vostok
Anor Armored Cruiser: (3) Madman, TricMagic, Vostok
Helpful Hands: (1) The Ensorceler

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on February 27, 2020, 01:50:49 pm

Quote from: Votes

CAP Lever Action "Drake": ()
Armor Piercing Sunic Shell: ()
Densium Shells: ()
Tian Warships: ()
Ur-núte, Scout Craft: ()
Timekeeper Clockwork Marksman Rifle: (4) TricMagic, Madman, Vostok, Stirk
Anor Armored Cruiser: (3) Madman, TricMagic, Vostok
Helpful Hands: (2) The Ensorceler, Stirk

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 4 - Design Phase)
Post by: Jilladilla on March 02, 2020, 07:07:11 am

Not a design, but lore! Tell me what you think!

The History of Etroa's 'Delayed' Industrial Revolution
The Industrial Revolution. An Era of Rapid Innovation and Discovery. An Era Defined by Steam Power and Mass Production. So why did Etroa; who have managed to build both the world's first steam engine, and 'mass produce' metalworks so early in its development, only enter said Era at a time roughly comparable with the rest of the world, even if they were of course one of the forerunners of the Era?

The answer is manyfold; and changes throughout the centuries. During the Classical Era; the times in which the Great Angamolen of Damrod was built and the Lunguma created, the answer was quite simply religion and culture. The Art of Craftsmanship was of the highest priority, and the intricate systems that made up the steam engine of the Lunguma was seen as the pinnacle of such. Not to mention, Sunseeds were seen as a Divine Object; anyone but a master tinkering around with them did not tend to live a long happy life. As a result; for a long while, only the masters of the art even attempted to create a better engine, and even then, they focused on making it superior, or even more intricate; and very rarely simpler or easier to create. In addition, frequently only the best of the best smiths even got to step foot inside the Great Angamolen; and indeed while this did cause it to output a staggering amount of masterwork creations, it stifled the spark that could have begun the Industrial Revolution then and there.

As the ages progressed into the Renaissance, the hold of religion faded; but the chains of culture only grew stronger. Even when the embers of the Revolution sparked a fire; the cultural values of upholding fine masterful work above all else smothered and extinguished the flames; causing the vast majority of the factories that actually started (frequently by failed apprentices) to fall apart financially. After all; even if they could produce vastly more equivalent quality goods for a cheaper price, no one wanted the 'mass produced crap' that came from them. Even the work of a 'freshly smelted' apprentice (an expression typically used to refer to those smiths who only just begun learning their trade) was valued much more highly than what came out of a factory; even if it was of much lower quality. Indeed, workers of these early factories were shunned quite heavily, and frequently were only composed of the desperate.

However, even in this oppressive environment; there was one success story; a factory that beat the odds and flourished in spite of the times. A factory that likely laid the groundwork for Etroa to properly enter the Revolution proper. We are talking about, of course, the Habchur Nail Factory. The Smith's longstanding dislike for nailmaking is a tale as old as time in Etroa; it is nigh impossible to make a fine or intricate nail without compromising its function, and even then, said intricacy is likely to be hidden away and impossible to appreciate. So when Dietrich Habchur built their factory and started mass producing nails of all things, the responses were along the lines of 'of course they're making nails. It's the only thing those incompetent ingrates who could never understand true craftsmanship with their soulless machines could do right!' This isn't to say they weren't shunned heavily, of course... But for once, a factory could actually find customers to sell to, due in part to the demand of nails outpacing the output of even Etroa's Smiths, but mostly because no one actually wanted to make nails; not even the most desperate of failed apprentices! However, even if it was simple, it's presence eased Etroa into embracing the Industrial Revolution when it set the world ablaze, instead of having its culture; one which allowed it to reach such heights before, hold it back.

Quote from: Votes

CAP Lever Action "Drake": ()
Armor Piercing Sunic Shell: ()
Densium Shells: ()
Tian Warships: ()
Ur-núte, Scout Craft: ()
Timekeeper Clockwork Marksman Rifle: (5) TricMagic, Madman, Vostok, Stirk, Nemonole
Anor Armored Cruiser: (3) Madman, TricMagic, Vostok
Helpful Hands: (2) The Ensorceler, Stirk

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Design Phase)
Post by: Twinwolf on March 08, 2020, 05:37:47 pm

Quote

Timekeeper Clockwork Marksman Rifle
Ever since the classical era, Etroan craftsmen have always been fascinated with small, fine machinery. As a result, is it any wonder that the art of clocksmithing has been so much more prolific in Etroa? This fascination has also lead to some strange inventions, the Ancient Lunguma was merely the first. Created by a watchmaker turned gunsmith; the Timekeeper is a fairly bulky contraption, made to address the perceived shortcomings of a bolt-action.

The Timekeeper is the worlds first 'Clockwork Action' rifle; the trigger the weapon merely acts to arrest the motion of these mechanisms. As a result, as long as the trigger is held down, the Clockwork Action will automatically cycle through bullets and fire them, delightfully ticking the entire time, until either the magazine runs out of ammunition, or the clockwork winds down (in which case they'll need to be rewound). The mechanism was designed specifically so that a marksman did not have to 'break aim' in order to work the bolt; all they need to do is hold their aim steady and count the seconds until the rifle fires the next round; for the rifle doesn't just run like clockwork, it *is* clockwork and the soothing sound of its ticking clock will keep the time for the gunner.

With a barrel machined to the same precision as its mechanisms, a carefully adjusted set of sights, and stabilized by the fact that our soldiers will never have to take their hands off it during operation; the Timekeeper may not see universal presence due to its lovingly crafted mechanisms, but those who do carry one will do so proudly, for a better marksman rifle there is not.

Difficulty: Average
Roll: 3+3+0 = 6 (Average)

Many say that in modern warfare there is no place for craftsmanship, only for efficiency and volume. Armies are larger than ever, and the cost to equip them equally so. To a degree, Etroa begrudingly accepted the logic; their primary infantry weaponry is mass produced, if still to a high level of quality, as are replacement parts simply because otherwise an army wouldn’t be able to go very long at all without restocking. But what Etroa did not accept was that the place for high standards of quality and hand craftsmanship was a thing of the past, especially not the designer of the ‘Timekeeper’ Clockwork Marksman Rifle.

The Timekeeper was this philosophy manifested into a weapon. Requiring precision clockwork and significant skill to create and maintain, each one was a valuable piece of equipment, and there would never be enough to fully equip Etroa’s army with them even with workshops across the country dedicated to their construction. But then, there was no need to do so; the Timekeeper was the marksman’s weapon. It’s unique clockwork action takes some getting used to, but those that can do so and use it with a steady hand would be well rewarded.

Popular myth was that enemy soldiers could no longer stand to be in the same room as a ticking clock after battle. While the ticking was far too quiet to hear at a range that a marksman would be using it, the weapon certainly made it’s mark on the battlefield.

Quote

Anor Armored Cruiser, modernized Skytear Galleon
An evolution of the use of the large frigate as a fast warship, the Anor Armored Cruiser is a more modern warship for more modern times. Like the Skytear Galleons of old, alloys of Skytears and metals lighten various elements of the ship, especially those above the waterline, to reduce topweight issues and allow more weapons and superstructure protection to be added.

The ships are powered by SCTA turbine powerplants, making them fast despite their excellent armor protection. They are armored by a fairly advanced, face-hardened steel armor plate enabled by our advanced metallurgy. Their structure is similarly composed of tough steel alloy to give them additional survivability, even beyond that given by their Skytear Galleon-inherited tendency to never sink.

The ships are covered in weapons of all sorts, with a main battery of 8" guns capable of punching straight through any ironclad warship, secondary batteries of 4" guns to deal with lighter warships and harass larger ones that get too close. Shells with Sunic interiors serve us for incendiaries capable of destroying any wooden warships still in service while devastating shore targets, while explosives and armor-piercing shells sometimes use Sunic lead components to add a little incendiary ability to their normal purpose.

These armored cruisers are the most common unit of our fleet, being less expensive than a full battleship yet capable of defeating battleships protected by only iron, and capable of resisting fire from low-velocity guns of the time due to their steel armor.

Difficulty: Easy
6+2+1 = 9 (Above Average)

While the Eclipse was a grand vessel, it could not possibly be everywhere at once. The Anor-class armored cruiser applied Etroan shipbuilding philosophy to modern designs, showing the Etroan navy to be a fearsome force in the ismuth and the world at large.

As time has passed, Etroa has only become more adept at including Eld in their designs, and it shows with it’s extensive incorporation into the design. As with past ships, it is incredibly difficult to actually sink an Anor cruiser; if one is defeated, it’s through a hit to critical systems or simply by destroying its ability to retaliate rather than simply sinking them and while expensive to outfit the fact that they are easily repaired or salvaged helps to keep cost down. Of course, a ship that’s durable is all well and good, but not very useful if it can’t hurt the enemy - so of course, the Anor cruiser is quite capable of this. It has a heavy main battery for the size, with armor piercing and explosive shells to pierce opposing ironclads. Secondary guns, while smaller, are loaded entirely with sunic shells that allow them to easily set fires to enemy ships even if they have difficulty actually piercing it’s armor.

The Anor Cruisers served as the mainstay vessel of the Etroan fleet during the Yuzuan War, clashing constantly with the ships of the overseas empire.

---

The Yuzuan War was the bloodiest conflict in Etroan history, and many were glad to see the back of it. For 50 years, we’ve given this “peace” thing a try, and for some it’s enough. But those awful Askians keep pushing, and pushing, and pushing. Something’s gonna give. And we’ll be ready when it does.

It is the final preliminary Design phase. You have two designs in this phase. As your forces build and prepare to return to battle, someone takes the lead; perhaps an old veteran from the Yuzuan War, or a youthful new firebrand eager to end the tale of Askia and Etroa; Design your first Commander. They will be added directly to the armory. For the second, design any ground-based military equipment or unit; this will be added directly to the armory.

Spoiler: Prelimary Proposals (click to show/hide)

Designs
Tamin Orodruin: The Tamin Orodruin caldera, while it’s status as the center of the world is debated, is the cradle of metalworking - it’s resources and the easy access to heat helped Etroans develop the trade early, and they have improved on it in the time since.

Sunshard Spears: Bronze spears tipped with sharpened sunseeds, a weapon combining two unique factors of Etroa. It causes heavy burns where it pierces - and while it cauterizes the wounds such that bleeding out isn’t a worry, the pain can often be incapacitating all the same.
   -Maclimire Craftswords: Before they can take an apprenticeship, an Etroan blacksmith must first craft a Maclimire to be recognized as a master. The swords are much like their cousins, the sunshard spears, in how they use sunseeds to turn already bad wounds into lethal stabs, although a bit better in close range.
   -Timekeeper Clockwork Marksman Rifle: The Timekeeper is a clockwork rifle of high craftsmanship, ticking along. Hand-crafted, it was rare but of impeccable quality and accuracy.

Etroan Water Purifiers: Devices used in the ritualistic cleansing of water. Effective at making water safe to drink, although used primarily for ritual rather than day to day use.

Lunguma, The Heavy Hand: A bronze apparatus worn on the arm and part of the body. Using the power of fairly high pressure and steam created by sunseeds and water, it drives a bronze piston with speed into whatever is in front of it. While too unwieldy for combat use despite the attempts of several youths, it allows combat engineers to rapidly build defenses given a couple hours.
   -The Angamolen of Damrod: A large ironworks created by the great smith Damrod after his invention of the Heavy Hand. Using similar technology, the forge would later be an example for others to follow, making it easier to forge large amounts of metal into usable shape.

Sunic Cartridges: Special ammunition for Etroan musketmen, using Sunic Lead. While it doesn’t pierce as well as traditional ammunition, it easily ignites on impact.
   -Sunic Cannonballs: Sunic lead cannonballs, with a bit more lead and a bit less sunseed in the formula to avoid premature detonation, lending an incendiary exponent to Etroan naval and ground cannons.
   -Colonial and Protectorate Forces: Cavalry equipped with sunic lead blunderbuss-pistols, serving as fast attack forces capable of shredding infantry formations from outside of bayonet or pike range.

Skytear Galleons: Huge cargo ships with skytear-infused support beams. Incredibly difficult to actually sink due to the use of skytears and sunseeds to reduce density and lighten it as it takes on water.
    -Anor-class Armored Cruiser: Heavily armored and armed cruisers using sunic cannons for incendiary attack as well as eld-infused steel to give it a surprisingly light weight and ability to stay afloat as long as it has more hull integrity than Iconan cheese.

E.R.S. Eclipse: A massive floating castle created to repel the invading Yuzuan Empire and enable a counterinvasion. Made of super-pykrete and Olszewskium, the frozen fortress makes up for it’s nature as a single vessel and it’s incredibly slow speed with sheer volume of fire and durability.

SCTA: The Self-Contained Turbine Apparatus is a highly efficient, easy to scale up or down and quite easy to miniaturize, steam engine. It carried the industrial revolution on it’s back, powering many factories and inventions both military and civilian.

Resources and Interactions
Sunseeds: Iridescent stones resembling opals, with fantastical properties focused around heat. Not much is known about it, but it surely has potential.
   -When making contact with water, it rapidly heats up.
   -When mixed with lead, it creates Sunic Lead, which is pyrophoric, igniting in the air and setting fire to targets hit with it.
   -When used in alloyed steel along with zinc and chromium, sunseeds create Olszewskium, which cools water instead of heating it.


Skytears: A pitch black stone, with fantastical properties focused around density.
   -It changes density in response to temperature, with higher temperatures reducing density.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on March 08, 2020, 06:40:49 pm

"Maximum" Machine Gun:
Following the lessons of the last war, Etroans had found the need for a rapid-fire weapon capable of holding positions or mowing down enemies from vehicles such as boats and trains. To this end they created a recoil-operated machine gun designated the "Maximum". While early machine guns of foreign nations where bulky and award to work with at the best of times, the Maximum took advantage of Etroa's cooling rod technology to keep a small pool of eternally cold water in contact with the barrel to prevent it from overheating. Compared to foreign water-cooled mechanisms, they where light weight and elegant. In addition, a skystone "pocket" would be placed around the barrel shroud and heated by a remarkably tiny boiler, with a second smaller pocket below the gun's mechanisms (surrounded by a second, smaller cooling shroud). The overall effect was a miracle gun that could be moved by one man, fire near endlessly without the need for a barrel change, and mow down any enemy it came across....

That is the idea, at least.

The Maximum was typically .303 caliber and crewed by 4 men, though it was capable of being fired by one, with a 250 round belt of ammunition. Thanks to its light weight it was capable of acting in both attack and defense. The gun is well loved by Etroan infantrymen, who often spout its praise in the Maximum Mantra "Whatever happens, we have got he Maximum gun, and they have not"

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Design Phase)
Post by: Jilladilla on March 08, 2020, 07:27:33 pm

The Etroan Industrial Revolution, an Age of Tension and Wonders
Contrary to popular belief, Etroa was not the first nation to enter the Industrial Era, nor was it in the group of initial forerunners into the era! The honor of who came first is a manner of intense debate internationally, with many arguments about what exactly counts as the requirements for entering said era, poor recordkeeping, various calendars to sort through, and other issues; but those in Etroa know that it was Bomnir, another of Etroa's friends and Protected States, who came first. Bomnir was a mountainous land; whose only claim to fame was their metallurgical talents and resources, but little else. Etroa, of course, saw a kindred spirit there, and safeguarded them much like a younger sibling.

But Bomnir has long exported the products of their smiths, often of near-equal quality to Etroan work. They saw the coming revolution as a way to expand their markets, and took to it with gusto. Indeed; this sudden surge in prominence on the international market, as well as some requests for Master-Crafted machine parts, alerted Etroa as to just what was happening in the world rather quickly. It was little concern, initially; Etroan Craftspeople still could produce to a higher quality than the early factories in the world... Until they realized just how much more numerous those factories allowed them to produce, and the simple fact that Askia, who has managed time and time again to match Etroan Mastery with their ingenuity, was showing signs of entering into that same age. Quantity is a Quality all on its own, after all. And so, with their hands forced, Etroa joined into the Revolution; surging into the age.

This is not to say that Etroa's craftsmen spirit died, no. Even as Common 'Habchurian Style' factories rose in prominence and standing, mass producing the products that an advanced civilization needs en-mass; that spirit adapted and evolved. The ideas of the typical factory were taken; machines that were far more flexible in action, yet requiring a far more active and adept guiding hand (and maintenance personnel); assembling teams of Masters to assemble a product instead of just merely having a single Master responsible for any given item; and standardization (often achieved by a Master Machinist building the best possible machine to produce a highly demanded subcomponent). These Artisanal Factories may have been a vastly different sight than what the Etroa of the previous generation expected, but Masterpieces came from them nonetheless; and many would not have been possible had such a transformation of the Master's workplace not taken place.

This is not to say that this transformation happened flawlessly; many throughout Etroan Society still see the Common factories (and their workers) as a 'necessary evil', now acknowledging them as a critical asset. Many still dream of one day working in an Artisanal Factory, while the older Masters lament the loss of how directly hands on their works used to be. The occupation of a Machinist is an odd place to be, being simultaneously looked up to as a Practitioner of a High Craft; and shunned as an enabler of the Necessary Evil of the Common Factory, as a whole. Nonetheless, it is a trade many have picked up; for the demand is near endless, in factories both Artisanal and Common.

An age of tension; but in the name of advancement of the craft, our society endures. And through that tension; our civilization will be refined, much like the art of the Craft.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on March 08, 2020, 08:28:25 pm

Commander Candidates:

Forward Admiral Timothy "Stalwart" Munroe:
Back in his youth, Timothy served Aboard the Eclipse during the counter-invasion as a gunner. That chunk of ice gave the old man a solid appreciation for a good defensive structure, while the invasion itself showed him how such structures can be used offensively. Although he has been moving up the Naval ladder he is one of the few left in service with experience from the last Great War, making his counsel valuable at both land and sea. He was able to see how the invasion went down up-close after-all, and the Eclipse was used as a forward base letting Timothy pull out a few even older tricks from even older generations.
Type: Defensive

Colonel Ethan "the Dragon" Son of Phillip:
While theoretically at "Peace" for the last fifty years, "Peace" requires "Peacekeeping". Etroa continued to perform operations necessary to maintain our now extensive network of colonies and protectorates, including suppressing attempts at subverting the wonderful order we have set up. As such, many of our men with real combat experience are either in the CAP force or Etroans who have taken part in "Peacekeeping" operations. Ethan is the former, a CAP officer who has made a name for himself as an aggressive and cunning officer. He earned his name during a Peacekeeping operation where his liberal use of Sunic ammunition set an entire rebelling town ablaze, noting that he has to "Burn the town to save it".
Type: Offensive

Marshal Katina "Magpie" Ivanov:
Katina was born the only daughter of a wealthy and successful Merchant/Craftsman, but it soon became clear she had no talent for metalworking herself. As such her father had her focus on the more administrative tasks rather than trying to "hammer with a chisel". She soon proved a perfect fit, taking over the day to day operations allowing her father to have more time to do craftwork himself. Sadly he had passed away due to illness just as Katina was coming into adulthood. With no technical expertise, she sold the factory and signed up for a logistic roll in the military. She took this thankless task seriously, rising through the ranks while reforming every level of Etroa's internal and external logistics system despite there not being a clear or immediate need to do so. She has a reputation as an "armchair Marshal", having no real combat experience herself and still technically serving a non-combat roll. Her nickname comes from her critics in the government, typically those unhappy with her increased spending on infrastructure suggesting that her moves to replace old rail-lines and ships are due to an obsession with having "shiny new things". She seems to have embraced it judging by how well polished her badges are.
Type: Defensive

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on March 09, 2020, 08:34:35 am

The Tinu Armored Personnel Carrier

The Tinu is an armored personnel carrier of sorts. 6 Wheels, an STCA drive engine, and enough horsepower to tow just about any cargo behind it, and enough space for 6 people in full gear. As well, Etroa Craftsmenship has developed a wheel that can transverse the sand or mud with some ease. The suspension meanwhile means rough terrain can be transversed quickly.

For armor, it uses Tian. A metal made up by using a closed foundry, mixing iron and slag with broken down skytears, cast off of other processes. The foundry is heated and compressed, and then left to cool. Once taken out, the new Tian is forged and wrought into shape. Tian also happens to be nonconductive and nonmagnetic, preventing electricity from traveling through it. As armor, it is as strong as steel, but much lighter, making it perfect for vehicle armor to reduce the weight, which allows for thicker armor.

Overall, the Tinu is the star when it comes to transporting both people and towing supplies quickly. And it does that job extremely well, allowing Etroa to continue their fortified advances and defense.

---

I'd also want to make a Commanding Officer who specializes in supplies and war tactics. Build off our defensive war and maybe extrapolate off of the first failed Eclipse.

---

N-Radio

Oceania. A civilization to the far south of our shores. During this era of Peace, our explores set out to document the seas. Up until this point, this country has only rarely been found during trade, selling unique metals and crafts via ship. However, they guarded their homeland very closely until one day Etroa discovered a strange effect.

The reason Oceania was never found turned out to be a unique technolgy which they used to surround their large island home in storms and trick navigational compasses and star reading. However Etroa had to deal with Askia effects messing with them during war, and the Anor were capable of surviving the stormy seas. Oceania tried to sink them with strange technology, but some made it back to report thanks to them being near unsinkable. After that, Etroa went to war with Oceania for the offense against them. After a short but dangerous battle comprised of the Eclipse leading an Anor fleet, they surrendered and peace talks began. Oceania became a Subsidiary, however rebels against handing over the technology destroyed all blueprints and major technology, and as a result the storms and protections surrounding Oceania.

This set them back to being another Protectorate, handing over their unique resource. However, all other technology would have to be rebuilt, which would take time. However, Etroa did gain access to Neró, a naturally occurring silver liquid from beneath the earth that could manipulate Waves.

With war with Askia looming, Etroa and Oceania engineers put aside their differences to come up with a greatly improved radio, made up of Neró stored inside and electric charges, amplifying radio waves. This allowed handsets called N-radios to be made which could be handed out to Officers in the fleet that performed just as well as the previous larger ones, having a dial to adjust the wavelength the radios were on.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Design Phase)
Post by: Jilladilla on March 09, 2020, 04:11:40 pm

Liantëlúma Trench Crawler
Trench Warfare. It's the reality of modern warfare. While our engineer corps ability to rapidly fortify ground gives us a distinct advantage in this regard; when it comes time to actually storm the enemy lines... The losses can rapidly pileup into the realm of unacceptable. So of course, the greatest minds in Etroa have managed to construct a solution.

The Liantëlúma was inspired by a children's toy, when all things are said and done; it's spiderlike legs being seen as an advantage over wheels when it comes to crossing crater and trench covered terrain. Said legs possess a piledriver-like pneumatic apparatus; allowing them to extend and allow the vehicle a lofty vantage point on more sturdy terrain, but more importantly it allows its snowshoe clad feet to drive softer terrain a few meters into the ground; allowing it to perch on more stable ground deep below, or at least compact said ground into a more stable state. Said ability to retract and extend should allow it to also handle suddenly stepping into a sudden drop; like that of a trench.

The body of the craft is quite simple and a stark contrast to its clockwork legs, being very boxlike. There's a few machinegun ports to the front, one on either side, and there's even a ventral 'turret' pod for yet another; this pod serves as the primary entry hatch. The legs, and most of the clockwork for their operation lie within the top sections of the vehicle, with grates to avoid snagging of the crew. Also occupying the majority of the back; and responsible for keeping the monstrously large clockwork powered, is a small SCTA-style steam engine. The craft is also covered in enough steel so as to render it proof against machine guns; it's primary job is to walk across the no-mans land and force the enemy out of their trenches, after all.

Overall, it's step, piledrive, step with other leg set, retract legs, step gait isn't expected to be the fastest on softer ground; but between that and its armor, it should get it to its destination reliably in spite of the horrors of No-Man's Land; and if the Timekeeper couldn't bestow clock-based PTSD upon the enemy, the ticking of the Liantëlúma as it towers over their trenches spewing machinegun fire will.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on March 10, 2020, 03:22:20 pm

"Destroyer" Trench Crawler: ("Artillery-type" tank)
During this era, the wheeled vehicle would come in vogue elsewhere in the world. Etroa's unique resources allowed a unique form of vehicle, with the unbeatable combination of skystone and sunstone allowing for unique contraptions both on the ground and in the air. One such vehicle was the "Crawler", an eight-legged form of the walker. Remaining only in the minds of science fiction writers in foreign countries, our unique resources allow such creations to form rather easily.

While many had feared legs would be over complicated compared to wheels, Etroan engineers came up with a rather elegant solution. Under normal circumstances legs would have to work against gravity, rather than friction like wheels. Etroan walkers turn this problem on its head by working with gravity. The legs jut out straight form the body, then jut straight down into the ground. At the joint was a special variant of an SCTA core with the turbine apparatus removed. When the leg was meant to move forward, this "lifter" would heat up causing surrounding skystone to become less-dense than air and lifting the leg into the sky. A mechanism in the main body when then spring the leg forward, at which point the cooling mechanism would reduce the heat output causing the leg to fall back to the ground. With this setup the main difficulty was getting the timing right to prevent the 'creature' from stepping on its own feet - a task Etroans had recently become accustomed to thanks to the sudden popularity of clockwork in the nation.

The "Destroyer" model is among the first crawler purpose built for the military. Its main body was large enough to house a crew of eight, with a hefty Lifter in the back allowing the legs and the ground beneath it to carry its weight. It had a maximum armor thickness of 12mm in the front, with lower thickness on the sides and back. Its eight legs where hollow aside from the lifting mechanism, but where armored to prevent easy mobility kills. It had three "Maximum" machine gun ports as a side armament, with two "Spider Eye" rocket launcher pods as its main weapon. Said rocket pods are essentially ten tubes laid out like a pepperbox on the back of the main body. A Lifter would allow them to be brought in and out of the main body for reloading, while the low-recoil rockets insured that there would be no issue firing them even while on the move. Said rockets where meant to fire in salvos rather than being individually accurate - the still primitive rockets relying on number to deal with any issue that would trouble the machine guns.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on March 20, 2020, 08:13:44 pm

Quote from: FMC Mk. 1 AFV

The Franklin Machine Company Mk. 1 Armored Fighting Vehicle is a first-generation light tank design for the Etroan Army. It is designed to support infantry in combat by providing fire support and helping destroy bunkers or machine gun nests.

The Mk. 1 is operated by a three-man crew: a commander and gunner in the two-man turret and a driver in the hull.

Armament consists of a single medium-velocity 37mm gun and two air-cooled, recoil-operated M/09 Mod 2 machine guns,* one mounted in a coaxial configuration and the other on a rooftop pintle mount.

Propulsion is provided by a SCTA mounted to the rear of the vehicle driving a pair of caterpillar tracks. To reduce the ground pressure of the vehicle and improve cross-country performance, the vehicle has been lightened through the use of Special Treatment Steel in structural members and armor plating. This alloy is made with the inclusion of skytears, allowing it to be roughly a third of the weight of comparable regular steel without compromising its performance as armor plating.

Armor protection is proof against rifle fire and shrapnel from all aspects.

* These are, functionally speaking, just slightly bulkier versions of the infantry MG designed for a pintle mount.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Design Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on March 20, 2020, 08:43:06 pm

Quote

Ohtan Auth, Brigadier of the Cataphract Corps
Offensive General
A former CAP member from the nation of Mairan that used small numbers of well-equipped forces to devastating effect, Auth is highly experienced in the field of asymmetric/special forces type warfare, shock tactics, and the use of the expensive elements of a military to maximum effect. Elite units using unusual, even custom, equipment and trained to the highest possible level are the preferred troops of the Brigadier. Admittedly, the experiences of the previous war and colonial peacekeeping service have somewhat tainted his views on warfare, leaving him without the ability to deploy conventional, plentiful forces in maximally effective ways. Peacekeeping often required the...deft touch of special forces, rather than the deployment of full armies.

Historically, Mairan was a nation of plentiful heavy cavalry and what we would nowadays call men-at-arms; heavily armored and highly trained professional warriors. Their CAP levy was initially composed of these soldiers, fighting mounted and labelled cataphracts, hence the title. Their rank-and-file tended to be made of poorly trained mass levies, and Auth's skills reflect those historical biases.

Quote from: Votebox

Ground Design
Liantëlúma Trench Crawler: (1) Madman

Commander
Ohtan Auth: (1) Madman

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on March 20, 2020, 08:45:16 pm

Quote from: Votebox

Ground Design
Liantëlúma Trench Crawler: (1) Madman
FMC Mk. 1 AFV: (1) Vostok

Commander
Ohtan Auth: (2) Madman, Vostok

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on March 20, 2020, 08:51:42 pm

Quote from: The Better Votebox, Superior in All Ways

Ground Design
"Maximum" Machine Gun: (1) Stirk
Tinu Armored Personnel Carrier:
N-Radio:
Liantëlúma Trench Crawler: (1) Madman
"Destroyer" Trench Crawler:
FMC Mk. 1 AFV: (1) Vostok

Commander
Forward Admiral Timothy "Stalwart" Munroe:
Colonel Ethan "the Dragon" Son of Phillip: (1) Stirk
Marshal Katina "Magpie" Ivanov:
Ohtan Auth: (1) Madman

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Design Phase)
Post by: Vostok on March 20, 2020, 08:56:29 pm

Quote from: Stirk on March 20, 2020, 08:51:42 pm

Quote from: The Even Better Votebox, Because Brevity Matters and Stirk Dropped my Second Vote

Ground Design
"Maximum" Machine Gun: (1) Stirk
Liantëlúma Trench Crawler: (1) Madman
FMC Mk. 1 AFV: (1) Vostok

Commander
Colonel Ethan "the Dragon" Son of Phillip: (1) Stirk
Ohtan Auth: (2) Madman, Vostok

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Design Phase)
Post by: Stirk on March 20, 2020, 09:00:03 pm

Quote from: Vostok on March 20, 2020, 08:56:29 pm

Quote from: Stirk on March 20, 2020, 08:51:42 pm

Quote from: Clearly the Most Superior Votebox, Given That The Alternative is Building A Running Votebox from The Start and Missing Half the Ideas Also You Edited It In or Something And Brevity is a Sin

Ground Design
"Maximum" Machine Gun: (1) Stirk
Tinu Armored Personnel Carrier:
N-Radio:
Liantëlúma Trench Crawler: (1) Madman
"Destroyer" Trench Crawler:
FMC Mk. 1 AFV: (1) Vostok

Commander
Forward Admiral Timothy "Stalwart" Munroe:
Colonel Ethan "the Dragon" Son of Phillip: (1) Stirk
Marshal Katina "Magpie" Ivanov:
Ohtan Auth: (2) Madman, Vostok

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Design Phase)
Post by: Jilladilla on March 20, 2020, 09:14:45 pm

I will admit; I feel the FMC is just slightly off-theme for a part of our starting equipment. But mostly it doesn't tick. (I really don't understand my recent obsession with trying to give Askian soldiers clock-based PTSD...)
The Maximum is just boring. It's just a Maxim with the serial numbers filed off and special resources bolted on.

But Ohtan Auth? A focus on the elite, special forces with cool gear just feels like the natural extension of our nation. I like them.

Quote from: STOP BICKERING DAMMIT

Ground Design
"Maximum" Machine Gun: (1) Stirk
Liantëlúma Trench Crawler: (2) Madman, Nemonole
FMC Mk. 1 AFV: (1) Vostok

Commander
Colonel Ethan "the Dragon" Son of Phillip: (1) Stirk
Ohtan Auth: (3) Madman, Vostok, Nemonole

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Design Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on March 31, 2020, 11:18:00 am

Commander Nāmea Hana
Defense Commander

Nāmea Hana is the daughter and student of Palapala Hana, who served during the war to create a comprehensive guide and regulations for supplying the army and navy at the time with everything it needed after the original Operation Eclipse failed due to lack of supplies. It was Palapala's masterey of trade that supplied the fronts with all the materials needed for building forts overnight, and the supplies needed to fight, and the supplies needed for medical treatment, as well as calculated the needed supplies for the second attempt of Operation Eclipse. It was his efforts that led to our victory with minimal loss of life on our side, despite how long the war went on.

For this, he was elevated to General of the Supply Corps, and trained a number of students before settling down with his wife and child in our capital. His daughter Nāmea went on to enter the Army Academy that he set up, learning the tactics and stratagems of war, and received personal tutoring.

Normally with the upcoming war, Palapala would have been chosen as the Commander, with numerous Military Minds advising him. However, he and his wife, along with many other officials, died in a terrorist operation which used the lantarkifumes of the enemy, resulting in a death toll of hundreds of civilians in the process. This broken peace won't stand, for to strike at the heart of our Country can only mean one thing. War...


During the reshuffling, Nāmea who was currently performing peacekeeping duties as part of the CAP Forces, was tapped, along with many others to replace empty positions from the attack. As someone who had shown great skill in War Games and Suppression of a previous war against one of our inland Protectorates, she was promoted to General Commander of the Allied Etroan Protectorate Forces, and has a number of military minds to advise her in place of her Father, both new and old. Like her Father, she promotes the skilled Supply to the army, navy, and medical divisions, keeping the war engine running properly, smoothly, and efficiently. Through this, enemy supply sabotage, and clever uses of defense, she plans to run an everlasting Inferno through enemy lines, burning away at them bit by bit till they finish Askia once and for all.

Quote from: Nopebox

Ground Design
"Maximum" Machine Gun: (1) Stirk
Liantëlúma Trench Crawler: (2) Madman, Nemonole
Tinu Armored Personnel Carrier: (1) TricMagic

FMC Mk. 1 AFV: (1) Vostok

Commander
Colonel Ethan "the Dragon" Son of Phillip: (1) Stirk
Ohtan Auth: (3) Madman, Vostok, Nemonole
NāMea Hana: (1) TricMagic

Spoiler: This is for later, maybe.. Note that the below are Etroan Developments of war tactics, in other words potential lore rather than part of any design. Inferno refers to slowly but surely burning away the enemy, and will likely be used in a war(Lore) piece on why it's called that. (click to show/hide)

Fortify Position
A simple way of saying increasing the defense of sections of land through walls, forts, and minefields. Trenchworks are also available, though walls and forts are quick enough to make that they usually are only needed if advancing through enemy territory. So long as there is a bit of time to set up, it will be hell for the enemy to take the land for themselves.

Hammer & Anvil
Very Etroan, and a long term staple from the oldest days. Caverly becomes the hammer which strikes the enemy against a Wall, often made by the Etroans themselves. Refers to any situation in which an enemy force is attacked from behind while attacking Etroan Fortifications. If the enemy reinforcements were split from the attacking force, usually results in said force's destruction. It's a classic. Often used with a Pincer Movement afterward form the Anvil side.

Inferno
A tactic derived from the Blitz, Sabotage, and Pincer Tactics, in which Defensive Fortifications are used to grind away at attackers while CAP Forces strike key points in the supply lines, cutting the attackers off from reinforcement and then killing them in a Hammer & Anvil strike. The Line is then moved up, and the process repeated. It can also refer to a defensive maneuver in which allies fall back and then strike later on in the day, making use of buried explosives to direct enemy movement and thin their numbers. Either way, it makes heavy use of Defense and surgical strikes against the enemy's supplies over a long period of time to weaken them.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Design Phase)
Post by: Rockeater on March 31, 2020, 11:18:49 am

Quote from: Nopebox

Ground Design
"Maximum" Machine Gun: (1) Stirk
Liantëlúma Trench Crawler: (3) Madman, Nemonole, Rockeater
Tinu Armored Personnel Carrier: (1) TricMagic

FMC Mk. 1 AFV: (1) Vostok

Commander
Colonel Ethan "the Dragon" Son of Phillip: (1) Stirk
Ohtan Auth: (3) Madman, Vostok, Nemonole
NāMea Hana: (1) TricMagic

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Design Phase)
Post by: Twinwolf on April 21, 2020, 02:36:42 pm

Quote from: Madman198237 on March 20, 2020, 08:43:06 pm

Ohtan Auth, Brigadier of the Cataphract Corps
Offensive General
A former CAP member from the nation of Mairan that used small numbers of well-equipped forces to devastating effect, Auth is highly experienced in the field of asymmetric/special forces type warfare, shock tactics, and the use of the expensive elements of a military to maximum effect. Elite units using unusual, even custom, equipment and trained to the highest possible level are the preferred troops of the Brigadier. Admittedly, the experiences of the previous war and colonial peacekeeping service have somewhat tainted his views on warfare, leaving him without the ability to deploy conventional, plentiful forces in maximally effective ways. Peacekeeping often required the...deft touch of special forces, rather than the deployment of full armies.

Historically, Mairan was a nation of plentiful heavy cavalry and what we would nowadays call men-at-arms; heavily armored and highly trained professional warriors. Their CAP levy was initially composed of these soldiers, fighting mounted and labelled cataphracts, hence the title. Their rank-and-file tended to be made of poorly trained mass levies, and Auth's skills reflect those historical biases.

During the peace with Askia, Etroa thankfully had good reason to keep it’s military sharp with it’s Colonial And Protectorate forces. The multicultural elite units produced by the levy from Etroa’s protectorates were just as elite in the modern day as they were at their invention, serving as the primary enforcers of colonial rule and fighting against any potential rebels. This leads to many among their numbers coming to high rank, and in some cases being transferred to the more general Etroan armed forces.

Ohtan Auth is one of those soldiers. He made a name for himself in the CAP forces right out of officer training, his family one with a history of military service extending back to Mairan’s independence (his father, Ohtan Senior, served with high distinction in the second Operation Eclipse). His training, and his nation’s culture, focused on small but highly effective elite forces, lining up smoothly with the requirements of the job. Under his direction, many insurrections were crushed without mercy.

It’s been about a year since he was moved to the general army, and he’s still adjusting to the command of the regular infantry, and originally ran into some issues on account of the differing cultures of Etroa and Mairan  - but his grasp of elite units is as strong as ever, and as the threat of renewed war with Askia grows, those that once would have preferred a proper Etroan commander are quietly glad that they’ve appointed someone with true combat experience.

Commander: Ohtan Auth
Type: Offensive
Passive: Cataphract Corps: Brigadier Auth, as befits his heritage, knows how to make his more effective but less common units hit the hardest; under his command, a front will see more effective deployment of elite units.
Strategies:
(O) Hammer and Anvil: In the modern day, positioning is almost more important than strength; if there’s a line of infantry, it must be broken and not bypassed unless you want enemy guns at your back; and while the enemy is tied up with the foot sloggers, the mobile units can strike. Auth waits for his enemy to make a push against his lines, and then swings the mobile units around in a flanking attack, hitting them hard just as they extend to hit the main infantry. This tactic is most effective when the enemy is attacking the same front, but can lead to significant casualties among the rank and file.
(O) Spearhead: Whether the enemy stretches their forces thin defending the whole line, or focuses on vital strongpoints, there is always going to be somewhere that is weaker than the rest - and like a dagger sliding between iron plates and into the heart, Auth directs his forces to that weak point, with the elite units at the head.
(D) We Have Reserves: Brigadier Auth has a cultural… some say disregard, some say realistic understanding, depending on their thoughts on the matter, for the role of your common infantryman. They are there for their numbers, not their skills: when it comes to jobs for which they are more useful than the elites, he tends to take the tact of “throw more men at it”; a front Ohtan is told to defend can often turn into a blood bath for both sides.

Quote from: Jilladilla on March 09, 2020, 04:11:40 pm

Liantëlúma Trench Crawler
Trench Warfare. It's the reality of modern warfare. While our engineer corps ability to rapidly fortify ground gives us a distinct advantage in this regard; when it comes time to actually storm the enemy lines... The losses can rapidly pileup into the realm of unacceptable. So of course, the greatest minds in Etroa have managed to construct a solution.

The Liantëlúma was inspired by a children's toy, when all things are said and done; it's spiderlike legs being seen as an advantage over wheels when it comes to crossing crater and trench covered terrain. Said legs possess a piledriver-like pneumatic apparatus; allowing them to extend and allow the vehicle a lofty vantage point on more sturdy terrain, but more importantly it allows its snowshoe clad feet to drive softer terrain a few meters into the ground; allowing it to perch on more stable ground deep below, or at least compact said ground into a more stable state. Said ability to retract and extend should allow it to also handle suddenly stepping into a sudden drop; like that of a trench.

The body of the craft is quite simple and a stark contrast to its clockwork legs, being very boxlike. There's a few machinegun ports to the front, one on either side, and there's even a ventral 'turret' pod for yet another; this pod serves as the primary entry hatch. The legs, and most of the clockwork for their operation lie within the top sections of the vehicle, with grates to avoid snagging of the crew. Also occupying the majority of the back; and responsible for keeping the monstrously large clockwork powered, is a small SCTA-style steam engine. The craft is also covered in enough steel so as to render it proof against machine guns; it's primary job is to walk across the no-mans land and force the enemy out of their trenches, after all.

Overall, it's step, piledrive, step with other leg set, retract legs, step gait isn't expected to be the fastest on softer ground; but between that and its armor, it should get it to its destination reliably in spite of the horrors of No-Man's Land; and if the Timekeeper couldn't bestow clock-based PTSD upon the enemy, the ticking of the Liantëlúma as it towers over their trenches spewing machinegun fire will.

Difficulty: Hard (-1)
Roll: 3+3-1 = 5 (Below Average)

While it may have been a comparatively peaceful age for Etroa, it was anything but for much of the world. The Yuzuan Federation has constantly been besieged by the other, smaller states that split from the Empire; Ofal and Icona have had minor skirmishes that never grew large enough to bring in either of their allies, and other nations have had similar conflicts. One of the most consistent notes by military observers is that, when nations are at rough technological parity and the environment is not conducive to flanking maneuvers, the defender has the advantage; between machine gun emplacements and dramatic artillery barrages, an attack is frequently a meat grinder.

When the inventor of the Liantëlúma was a child, he had two kinds of toys he loved the most: little model soldiers, and similarly little but scaled up animals and insects. He frequently played with both at once, imagining men shooting at and running screaming from comparatively massive spiders, dogs, and other creatures who were arbitrarily resistant to bullets. The inventor was a troubled child, but in his adult and mostly stabilized life he took inspiration from that troubled imagination of his youth; some kind of armed unit that is resistant to enemy weaponry could potentially be able to, if not break these pseudo-sieges on their own, help weaken the line and take pressure off the infantry.

The Liantëlúma, sometimes called the ‘Liant’ by our allies who have less refined written and spoken languages, does this job… adequately. Not great, but pretty well. It definitely has sufficient armor that most machine gun fire will fail to penetrate, and it has enough machine guns of it’s own to make sure the enemy keep their heads down [Note: It will be considered to have whichever option you choose for your Machine Gun during the strategy phase]. When stationary and in effective range of it’s guns, it can be very effective at it’s job, spraying bullets like a lead sprinkler. While slow, it’s motion is rather reliable, with it’s legs having enough power to avoid getting stuck in the ground most of the time.

It is not, however, without issue; while it can provide a stable firing platform when stationary, it is difficult for soldiers to keep their aim while it’s in motion as the metal beast bobs up and down in it’s step. As well, due to it’s slowness, it will generally need to be deployed ahead of the infantry, broadcasting the intent to assault well ahead of time - not that this has much effect with preliminary bombardments saying just as much. Thirdly, it’s vulnerable at close range; while the firing ports are small enough that it would be near impossible to hit them precisely at a range, if the enemy gets close enough without being turned into Iconan cheese, it’s theoretically possible to get a grenade through one of those, or through the ventilation or the entrance hatch.

Overall, while extremely costly for our current production (we expect that we should be able to produce more than test models by the time a war breaks out), our commanders believe that Liantëlúma trench crawlers offer a convincing proof of concept towards the use of armored vehicles in warfare; it has it's flaws, but it is only the beginning. The Liantëlúma Trench Crawler costs 4 Ore, 3 Sunseeds, and 3 Skytears, making it a National Effort with a 6-resource deficit and Complex.

[For those of you prone to panic on account of initial cost that means ‘you’ll probably get it to VE in the turn 1 strategy phase']

---

It is now the Final Preliminary Phase.

This turn, you will have two responsibilities: One is to design a uniform for your soldiers. This is mostly cosmetic and for helping my descriptions; don't bother trying to minmax it.

The second, significantly more impactful thing is that you must choose your armory. Pick one from each category.

Spoiler: Prelimary Proposals (click to show/hide)

Designs
Tamin Orodruin: The Tamin Orodruin caldera, while it’s status as the center of the world is debated, is the cradle of metalworking - it’s resources and the easy access to heat helped Etroans develop the trade early, and they have improved on it in the time since.

Sunshard Spears: Bronze spears tipped with sharpened sunseeds, a weapon combining two unique factors of Etroa. It causes heavy burns where it pierces - and while it cauterizes the wounds such that bleeding out isn’t a worry, the pain can often be incapacitating all the same.
   -Maclimire Craftswords: Before they can take an apprenticeship, an Etroan blacksmith must first craft a Maclimire to be recognized as a master. The swords are much like their cousins, the sunshard spears, in how they use sunseeds to turn already bad wounds into lethal stabs, although a bit better in close range.
   -Timekeeper Clockwork Marksman Rifle: The Timekeeper is a clockwork rifle of high craftsmanship, ticking along. Hand-crafted, it was rare but of impeccable quality and accuracy.

Etroan Water Purifiers: Devices used in the ritualistic cleansing of water. Effective at making water safe to drink, although used primarily for ritual rather than day to day use.

Lunguma, The Heavy Hand: A bronze apparatus worn on the arm and part of the body. Using the power of fairly high pressure and steam created by sunseeds and water, it drives a bronze piston with speed into whatever is in front of it. While too unwieldy for combat use despite the attempts of several youths, it allows combat engineers to rapidly build defenses given a couple hours.
   -The Angamolen of Damrod: A large ironworks created by the great smith Damrod after his invention of the Heavy Hand. Using similar technology, the forge would later be an example for others to follow, making it easier to forge large amounts of metal into usable shape.

Sunic Cartridges: Special ammunition for Etroan musketmen, using Sunic Lead. While it doesn’t pierce as well as traditional ammunition, it easily ignites on impact.
   -Sunic Cannonballs: Sunic lead cannonballs, with a bit more lead and a bit less sunseed in the formula to avoid premature detonation, lending an incendiary exponent to Etroan naval and ground cannons.
   -Colonial and Protectorate Forces: Cavalry equipped with sunic lead blunderbuss-pistols, serving as fast attack forces capable of shredding infantry formations from outside of bayonet or pike range.

Skytear Galleons: Huge cargo ships with skytear-infused support beams. Incredibly difficult to actually sink due to the use of skytears and sunseeds to reduce density and lighten it as it takes on water.
    -Anor-class Armored Cruiser: Heavily armored and armed cruisers using sunic cannons for incendiary attack as well as eld-infused steel to give it a surprisingly light weight and ability to stay afloat as long as it has more hull integrity than Iconan cheese.

E.R.S. Eclipse: A massive floating castle created to repel the invading Yuzuan Empire and enable a counterinvasion. Made of super-pykrete and Olszewskium, the frozen fortress makes up for it’s nature as a single vessel and it’s incredibly slow speed with sheer volume of fire and durability.

SCTA: The Self-Contained Turbine Apparatus is a highly efficient, easy to scale up or down and quite easy to miniaturize, steam engine. It carried the industrial revolution on it’s back, powering many factories and inventions both military and civilian.

Resources and Interactions
Sunseeds: Iridescent stones resembling opals, with fantastical properties focused around heat. Not much is known about it, but it surely has potential.
   -When making contact with water, it rapidly heats up.
   -When mixed with lead, it creates Sunic Lead, which is pyrophoric, igniting in the air and setting fire to targets hit with it.
   -When used in alloyed steel along with zinc and chromium, sunseeds create Olszewskium, which cools water instead of heating it.


Skytears: A pitch black stone, with fantastical properties focused around density.
   -It changes density in response to temperature, with higher temperatures reducing density.

Spoiler: Armory (click to show/hide)

Infantry
HG-16 Pistol: With the rapid rearmament of Etroa, our engineers simply didn’t feel like putting time into making a pistol of their own, deciding they had better uses for the resources. Instead, they’ve acquired military surplus pistols from the Yuzuan Federation. 10 bullet magazines, reasonable stopping power, pretty solid as far as sidearms go. 1 Ore. [Cheap]

Land Vehicles
Liantëlúma Trench Crawler: A bulky armored walking vehicle bristling with machine guns. While slow, and vulnerable if an enemy manages to get close enough to lob an explosive in, it is still an effective anti-infantry weapon and a stepping stone to greater things. 4 Ore, 3 Sunseeds, and 3 Skytears. [National Effort] [Complex]

Components
SCTA: The Self-Contained Turbine Apparatus is a highly efficient, easy to scale up or down and quite easy to miniaturize, steam engine. It carried the industrial revolution on it’s back, powering many factories and inventions both military and civilian.

Sunic Shells/Bullets: Some weapons use Sunic Lead ammunition, a material that catches fire in the air, allowing for simple to make incendiaries.

Resources
Sunseeds: Iridescent stones resembling opals, with fantastical properties focused around heat. Not much is known about it, but it surely has potential.
   -When making contact with water, it rapidly heats up.
   -When mixed with lead, it creates Sunic Lead, which is pyrophoric, igniting in the air and setting fire to targets hit with it.
   -When used in alloyed steel along with zinc and chromium, sunseeds create Olszewskium, which cools water instead of heating it.

Skytears: A pitch black stone, with fantastical properties focused around density.
   -It changes density in response to temperature, with higher temperatures reducing density.

Spoiler: Commanders (click to show/hide)

Ohtan Auth
Type: Offensive
Passive: Cataphract Corps: Brigadier Auth, as befits his heritage, knows how to make his more effective but less common units hit the hardest; under his command, a front will see more effective deployment of elite units.
Strategies:
(O) Hammer and Anvil: In the modern day, positioning is almost more important than strength; if there’s a line of infantry, it must be broken and not bypassed unless you want enemy guns at your back; and while the enemy is tied up with the foot sloggers, the mobile units can strike. Auth waits for his enemy to make a push against his lines, and then swings the mobile units around in a flanking attack, hitting them hard just as they extend to hit the main infantry. This tactic is most effective when the enemy is attacking the same front, but can lead to significant casualties among the rank and file.
(O) Spearhead: Whether the enemy stretches their forces thin defending the whole line, or focuses on vital strongpoints, there is always going to be somewhere that is weaker than the rest - and like a dagger sliding between iron plates and into the heart, Auth directs his forces to that weak point, with the elite units at the head.
(D) We Have Reserves: Brigadier Auth has a cultural… some say disregard, some say realistic understanding, depending on their thoughts on the matter, for the role of your common infantryman. Namely: when it comes to jobs for which they are more useful than the elites, he tends to take the tact of “throw more men at it”; a front Ohtan is told to defend can often turn into a blood bath for both sides.

---Armory Choices---

Infantry

Spoiler: Primary: (click to show/hide)

Sunic Rifle: A moderate weight, large caliber bolt-action rifle that can fire to a range of around six hundred meters. While fairly mundane in most respects, in terms of ammunition it makes use of the unique ‘Sunic Lead’ rounds, which ignite in the air and can set fire to a target they hit. Some are fitted with scopes. It uses fairly hefty bullets as well for impressive stopping power. It’s reliable in the extreme, able to fire in nearly any condition short of being physically broken apart. 1 Ore, 2 Sunseeds. [Cheap]

Skytear Carbine: A lightweight rifle that trades some range and the size of the bullet for being significantly less bulky than your average primary weapon. Using skytear-forged metal, it is lightweight and easy to use at close range. It has an effective range of around 400 meters, with longer shots possible with solid aim. It’s an experiment in semi-automatic fire, similar to the clockwork rifles but in more frequent use, which allows for good fire rate of its ten round magazine. To mitigate the expense in sunseeds, Sunic Bullets are rationed so that each soldier has two clips of them.
1 Ore, 1 Skytears, 1 Sunseeds [Cheap][Complex]

Spoiler: Machine Gun (click to show/hide)

Skytear Machine Gun: A weapon of joint Eldean and Etroan design, built using Skytears so that it might keep a supernatural low density and weight while on the move. While it would be difficult to heat the weapon itself, the carrying case uses a SCTA-2 engine to fill the case with hot steam, reducing the weight of the gun. It is served by two men, one to carry the gun and fire once set up on its bipod mount and another to carry ammo belts and feed them into the gun. In fortifications there is sometimes a third man assigned to a machine gun section as a backup gunner or ammo runner, and if needed on the move it can be operated by a single man with breaks in the fire to load the ammo belts. It is fed via 40 round ammo belts, able maintaining a consistent rate of fire up until the barrel gets overheated or the loader runs out of ammunition. 3 Skytears, 4 Ore. [Very Expensive] Complex

Incendiary Rotary Gun: A heavy crew-served rotary gun making extensive use of sunseeds. It uses exclusively Sunic rounds for a fiery hail of bullets. The eight barrels rotate automatically as the gun is fired, reducing the risk of any individual barrel melting from the extensive usage of sunic ammunition, allowing a sustained fire rate of 750 rounds per minute given the ammunition feed to maintain it. Another feature to reduce the risk of sunic rounds melting the barrels, especially when in fortified positions, is the use of an Olszewskium water cooling system to keep the barrels at manageable temperatures, although enough sustained fire can overwhelm the system. 4 Sunseeds, 5 Ore [Very Expensive]

Spoiler: Special: (click to show/hide)

Clockwork Snipers: The precision of infantry weapons is greater than it’s ever been, to the point that range is sometimes limited more by the user’s sight than by the precision of the weapon. The modernized V2 Timekeeper is a marksman rifle constructed to the highest quality, each one hand made; while they will never be cheap, they will always be quite effective at their jobs. The highest scoring marksmen out of training are presented with the V2 Timekeepers, with their precise clockwork action and scopes, allowing the men to serve as unparalleled snipers. 5 Ore, 4 Sunseeds. [Very Expensive] [Note: Cannot be reduced to Cheap]

The Steel Body: Etroan industry has seen the use of man-portable heavy machinery for a long time. The Steel Body is a man portable fortification kit. Etroan combat engineers equip the large metal suits, lightened through the use of Skytears and powered by steam, as they carry out their work, rapidly setting up fortifications. In addition to the metal stakes for which it was originally used, an assortment of other tools are included and can be swapped by the engineer’s accompanying assistant; a spade for digging trenches, cutters for dealing with wire, and more. 3 Ore, 3 Sunseeds, 3 Skytears. [Very Expensive] [Complex]

Support:

Spoiler: Artillery: (click to show/hide)

Pyro Artillery:
Sometimes you just want to watch the world burn, you know? That was the thought process behind the Pyro Artillery, which is built to do just that. While somewhat slow firing, it fires large Sunic Lead explosives to a range of 8km. They are set to detonate shortly before impact, sending shrapnel and waves of burning heat down to anyone unfortunate enough to be in the way. 4 Ore, 5 Sunseeds [Very Expensive] [Complex]

Mobile Artillery:
What do you do when you can make artillery out of a material just as durable but half as heavy? Well, you make it move. The mobile artillery is, in essence, a big cannon bolted to a cargo bed, with a team of trucks hitched to it and driving it around. It has the modest range of 6km, which is hardly ideal, but the not insignificant advantage that it’s mobility allows it to avoid counter-artillery fire, operating with minimal impediment even when outranged by the enemy artillery. 3 Ore. 4 Skytears [Very Expensive][Complex]

Spoiler: Vehicle: (click to show/hide)

Armored Train:
The SCTA allowed for mechanization on an unprecedented scale. It allows for a lot of power in a small space, and further improvements have only gone further and further. A grand demonstration of this principal is in the Etroan Armored Train. It’s exactly what it sounds like; a heavy train deployed to the rail lines criss-crossing the continent, both bringing troops to the front and bringing heavy artillery to the front. Bristling with machine guns and cannons that wouldn’t be out of place on a ship, it’s a potent defensive tool, although it’s not very useful on the offense, due to the ability of enemies to cut rail lines. 7 Ore, 4 Sunseeds, 2 Skytears. [National Effort] [Complex]

Dragoons:
Horses have largely been fazed out of front line duty on account of… let’s call it an acute weakness to lead poisoning. Not totally, as they still have use in logistics until motor vehicles become cheaper, but their time in combat roles is largely over. Their replacement is mobile troops mounted on motorcycles. Descended from the CAP forces, the Etroan Dragoons serve as scouts and mobile offensive troops. With their motorcycles they can cover a lot of ground, and often times get in position before an enemy attack to flank. 4 Ore, 3 Sunseeds, 1 Skytears. [Very Expensive] [Complex].

Naval

Spoiler: Capital ship: (click to show/hide)

 
E.R.S. Eclipse: Why fix what isn’t broken? The Eclipse is still a wonder of a warship, especially after it’s recent refit with modern cannons and reinforcement of it’s pykrete. As it always has been, it’s a giant star-shaped pykrete castle of a flagship, capable of carrying huge numbers of men and material. Each point of the star is heavily armed and armored, and it’s engines are huge enough to keep the thing moving at a slow, but usable pace. The Eclipse is unique in that it is a [National Effort] that cannot be reduced in cost, but will be periodically refitted with new developments.

Pykrete Battleships: While the Eclipse was decommissioned during the long peace, the lessons learned from it’s design were incorporated in future designs. Like the Eclipse, the Pykrete Battleships are made of a super-pykrete kept cool by Olszewskium. In many ways, they are simply smaller and faster versions of the Eclipse - they keep the castle-like citadel in the center of a star, although that star is only five points and notably smaller than the Eclipse. Each point bears a two-gun 350mm turret and an array of 150mm secondary guns, plus a pair of 300mm turrets on the central platform. They are dreadfully slow by most standards, although still faster than the Eclipse - they are slow, durable behemoths. While we only have one for now, we believe that unlike the Eclipse this can later be produced in greater numbers once we’ve got our military production in order. 5 Ore, 5 Sunseeds, 3 Skytears. [National Effort] [Complex]

Spoiler: Escort Ship (click to show/hide)

Hunter-killer: When you can make armor have less density, and by extension lighter, you’ve got two fun options: More armor for the same weight, or the same armor for less weight. The Hunter-Killer decided to take option two, and is the fastest class of warship in the Etroan fleet. They can zip around the battlefield at a blistering 37 knots due to it’s armor, equivalent to a standard destroyer, being lighter than it’s thickness implies. It is armed with 120mm sunic cannons, capable of setting enemy ships alight, as well as the standard skytear reinforcement, which makes hull integrity less of a necessity and more of a suggestion. 2 Skytears, 3 Ore, 3 Sunseeds. Expensive. [Complex]

Anarion Class Cruiser: Like the Anor-class before it, the Anarion Class is the sort of vessel that only Etroa could have created. Using extensive amounts of Skytears, with sunstone heating systems, it’s armor is lighter than contemporaries; while the Hunter-Killer uses this property to make it lighter for it’s average armor for the class, the Anarion uses that to allow it to pack more armor into the weight. It’s armament includes two double-barrel 170mm turrets and several 110mm secondaries, and it can move at decent 23 knot clip. It also has the traditional Skytear reinforcements, making it extremely difficult to sink even if it’s armor is pierced. 4 Skytears, 3 Ore. [Very Expensive] [Complex]

Misc

Spoiler: Trait: (click to show/hide)

The Grand Forge: Etroa values craftsmanship, even in the age of mass production. Even the lowly service rifle is manufactured to high quality. Etroan weapons are significantly more reliable than their counterparts because of this, regardless of conditions; drop an Etroan gun off a high cliff into a pool of mud, freeze it over, then thaw it out, and odds are good that you’ll still be able to fire it like it’s fresh off the lines. Whether in the mud and blood of the trenches, the Askian deserts, or the Etroan geyser fields, soldiers can be confident their equipment will work.

Rapid Fortification:  Etroa has been able to build better and faster than any empire in history, and this shines in their doctrine. Any new position is quickly fortified, as if it were a line held for months by any other power; to attack an Etroan position is always to attack a fortified one. This manifests in an ability to rapidly fortify newly gained ground, reducing the odds of a quick counterattack and allowing defensive designs to be put to use more rapidly.

Spoiler: Primary Ally: (click to show/hide)

Icona:
A long-time ally of Etroa. Formerly a protectorate, they became independent during the Yuzuan War - Etroa had no time to spend policing it’s territories that weren’t directly under threat and saw fit to cut it loose before independent elements could revolt - but remain a steadfast ally in the face of Askian aggression. They are known for the ferocity of their soldiers and commitment to the battle; while you send Etroans to hold a position, it’s Iconans you call to take it in the first place.

They have a special resource called Hanon Water, a liquid from high in their mountains that seems to have taken some strange properties revolving around [Potential Energy]; the extent of it’s use remains to be seen, but the modern Iconan Berserkers make use of it extensively. During the days before combat, they are slow and sluggish, always tired, unable to do all but the simplest tasks. But when combat comes, and they drink from their glowing flasks, they come alive. They become fierce warriors charging the enemy lines with superhuman strength and speed, and are particularly vicious if they enter melee. They operate as [Expensive], and as [Allied Auxillaries] can only be placed on one front.

Jasny Kingdom:
A kingdom to Etroa’s west. Known for a dedication to experimentation and exploration, the Jasny Kingdom has made many advances through history. While they had some initial conflicts  with Etroa (no, they do not want to be a vassal ‘protectorate’, thanks for offering), their economic ties later in time, and the good PR from the inventor of the pykrete warship’s admiration of them, have made them firm allies. They have access to the unique resource Gwiezdny Ore, a strange material that glows in the dark in it’s innate form, and seems to manipulate Light.

At the start of the conflict, they offer to send in some of their famed Nightcloak Raider units. The cloaks from which they take their name are studded with pins made of the Gwiezdny Ore; while the secrets of how remain a mystery, when deployed to combat the Raiders are able to use these to become difficult to see; light seems to break apart as it touches them, blurring and distorting their bodies to the observer’s eye, making them very effective at sneaking across a battlefield as unseen scouts, or at raiding enemy trenches for prisoners or to prepare an assault. They operate as Expensive, but as a Allied Auxillary they can only be deployed on one front at any given time.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on April 21, 2020, 03:14:07 pm

Quote from: ---Armory Choices---

Infantry
[Primary]
Sunic Rifle: 1 Ore, 2 Sunseeds. [Cheap] : (0)
Skytear Carbine: 1 Ore, 1 Skytears, 1 Sunseeds [Cheap][Complex] : (0)

[Machine Gun]
Skytear Machine Gun: 3 Skytears, 4 Ore. [Very Expensive] Complex : (0)
Incendiary Rotary Gun: 4 Sunseeds, 5 Ore [Very Expensive] : (1) TricMagic

[Special]
Clockwork Snipers: [/b] [Very Expensive] [Note: Cannot be reduced to Cheap] : (0)
The Steel Body: 3 Ore, 3 Sunseeds, 3 Skytears. [Very Expensive] [Complex] : (1) TricMagic


Support:
[Artillery]
Pyro Artillery: 4 Ore, 5 Sunseeds [Very Expensive] [Complex] : (0)
Mobile Artillery: 3 Ore. 4 Skytears [Very Expensive][Complex] : (1) TricMagic

[Vehicle]
Armored Train: 7 Ore, 4 Sunseeds, 2 Skytears. [National Effort] [Complex] : (1) TricMagic
Dragoons: [Very Expensive] [Complex] : (0)


Naval
[Capital ship]
E.R.S. Eclipse: [National Effort], [cannot be reduced in cost], [periodically refitted with new developments.] : (1) TricMagic
Pykrete Battleships: 5 Ore, 5 Sunseeds, 3 Skytears. [National Effort] [Complex] : (0)

[Escort Ship]
Hunter-killer:  2 Skytears, 3 Ore, 3 Sunseeds. Expensive. [Complex] : (1) TricMagic
Anarion Class Cruiser: 4 Skytears, 3 Ore. [Very Expensive] [Complex] : (0)


Misc
[Trait]
The Grand Forge: (0)
Rapid Fortification: (1) TricMagic

[Primary Ally]
Icona- [Potential Energy]{Iconan Berserkers }: (0)
Jasny Kingdom- [Light Manipulation]{Nightcloak Raider}: (1) TricMagic

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on April 21, 2020, 03:49:24 pm

Quote from: Fortress Mode

Defensive Minded Setup
INFANTRY
Primary: Sunic Rifle
Machinegun: Incendiary Rotary Gun
Special: Clockwork Snipers

SUPPORT
Artillery: Pyro Artillery
Vehicle: Armored Train

NAVAL
Capital Ship: Eclipse
Escort Ship: Anarion-class Cruiser

MISCELLANEOUS
Trait: The Grand Forges
Primary Ally: Icona

Reasoning: Most of this should be clear-cut. When fighting from a defensive position, you want longer-ranged rifles, heavier and thus longer-firing MGs with the ability to control territory, and snipers are an essential part of trench warfare, whereas we don't need to rapidly fortify so much (and, let's be real, either way one of our first actions would be remaking the clockwork snipers or making a modern version of the Lunguma). Setting things on fire is just a way of laying down a wall that can't be scaled, the Armored Train is the defensive choice. The Eclipse and Anarion I believe to be the superior combination of ships, because it combines unbreakable durability with some nearly-unbreakable durability. We'll need to make a good escort, of course, but that's doable enough. Miscellaneous stuff, choosing defensively minded means we don't expect to be on the offensive all that often, so we don't need to rapidly fortify positions we've taken but we DO want reliable weapons in the mud of trench warfare (which we're obviously specializing in) and I believe that messing with Potential Energy might be fun, also the berserkers probably have a shade more utility in defensive roles than the sneaky types.

Quote from: Adventure Mode

Special Forces/Assault Minded Setup
INFANTRY
Primary: Skytear Carbine
Machinegun: Skytear Machinegun
Special: The Steel Body

SUPPORT
Artillery: Mobile Artillery
Vehicle: Armored Train

NAVAL
Capital Ship: Eclipse
Escort Ship: Anarion-class Cruiser

MISCELLANEOUS
Trait: Rapid Fortification
Primary Ally: Jasny Kingdom

Reasoning: So, late WWI stormtrooper-esque use of subcaliber close quarters weapons such as carbines, backed with mobile MGs and the ability to fortify newly taken positions. Other than that, obviously we go for the more mobile option for artillery. The armored train combined with extreme engineering power makes for a potent offensive tool that I really want to see deployed. For offensives we choose rapid defensive constructions to hold ground we've claimed over reliability, we'll just have to engineer our stuff to be reliable. And the Jasny Kingdom sneaky types are more of a special-ops unit that we'd normally have. Not sure at the moment what else we can do with light other than "haha lasers" but I'll think on it. Naval reasoning is unchanged.

I am going to vote for the special forces option because I believe it is more well-fitted to our present commander, somewhat unfortunately as clockwork snipers and reliable equipment would be fun.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on April 21, 2020, 03:59:56 pm

Quote from: Plan Votebox

Fortress Mode: ()
Adventure Mode: (1) TricMagic

Questions fielded, I like Adventure Mode as the better of the two.

Also, for the Anarion being picked, I guess that just becomes a reason to make an Airship? The ST MG and Mobile Arty will give us the basics for lightening.

Also, being in the game, no longer any reason to hold back deploying airships OR an eventual incendiary bomber.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Stirk on April 21, 2020, 04:04:09 pm

Quote from: ---Armory Choices---

Infantry
[Primary]
Sunic Rifle: 1 Ore, 2 Sunseeds. [Cheap] : (1) Stirk
Skytear Carbine: 1 Ore, 1 Skytears, 1 Sunseeds [Cheap][Complex] : (0)

[Machine Gun]
Skytear Machine Gun: 3 Skytears, 4 Ore. [Very Expensive] Complex : (0)
Incendiary Rotary Gun: 4 Sunseeds, 5 Ore [Very Expensive] : (2) TricMagic, Stirk

[Special]
Clockwork Snipers: [/b] [Very Expensive] [Note: Cannot be reduced to Cheap] : (0)
The Steel Body: 3 Ore, 3 Sunseeds, 3 Skytears. [Very Expensive] [Complex] : (2) TricMagic, Stirk


Support:
[Artillery]
Pyro Artillery: 4 Ore, 5 Sunseeds [Very Expensive] [Complex] : (0)
Mobile Artillery: 3 Ore. 4 Skytears [Very Expensive][Complex] : (2) TricMagic, Stirk

[Vehicle]
Armored Train: 7 Ore, 4 Sunseeds, 2 Skytears. [National Effort] [Complex] : (1) TricMagic
Dragoons: [Very Expensive] [Complex] : (1) Stirk


Naval
[Capital ship]
E.R.S. Eclipse: [National Effort], [cannot be reduced in cost], [periodically refitted with new developments.] : (2) TricMagic, Stirk
Pykrete Battleships: 5 Ore, 5 Sunseeds, 3 Skytears. [National Effort] [Complex] : (0)

[Escort Ship]
Hunter-killer:  2 Skytears, 3 Ore, 3 Sunseeds. Expensive. [Complex] : (2) TricMagic, Stirk
Anarion Class Cruiser: 4 Skytears, 3 Ore. [Very Expensive] [Complex] : (0)


Misc
[Trait]
The Grand Forge: (1) Stirk
Rapid Fortification: (1) TricMagic

[Primary Ally]
Icona- [Potential Energy]{Iconan Berserkers }: (1) Stirk
Jasny Kingdom- [Light Manipulation]{Nightcloak Raider}: (1) TricMagic

Quote from: Madman198237 on April 21, 2020, 03:49:24 pm

Reasoning: So, late WWI stormtrooper-esque use of subcaliber close quarters weapons such as carbines, backed with mobile MGs and the ability to fortify newly taken positions. Other than that, obviously we go for the more mobile option for artillery. The armored train combined with extreme engineering power makes for a potent offensive tool that I really want to see deployed. For offensives we choose rapid defensive constructions to hold ground we've claimed over reliability, we'll just have to engineer our stuff to be reliable. And the Jasny Kingdom sneaky types are more of a special-ops unit that we'd normally have. Not sure at the moment what else we can do with light other than "haha lasers" but I'll think on it. Naval reasoning is unchanged.

The carbines arn't sub-caliber? Nothing is saying they are. They probably arn't pistol caliber either if that is what you where trying to say lol

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Vostok on April 21, 2020, 04:50:47 pm

Quote from: Plan Votebox

Fortress Mode: ()
Adventure Mode: (2) TricMagic, Vostok

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on April 21, 2020, 04:53:07 pm

Quote from: Plan Votebox

Fortress Mode: ()
Adventure Mode: (3) TricMagic, Vostok, Madman

Note that Twin has said on Discord that we won't be getting access to the "Primary Ally"'s special resource, so we don't need to factor that into our considerations, only the type of unit they're providing.

Quote from: But I Might Need It Later!

Maximum Engineering Effort Choices
INFANTRY
Primary: Skytear Carbine
Machinegun: Incendiary Rotary Machinegun
Special: The Steel Body

SUPPORT
Artillery: Mobile Artillery
Vehicle: Armored Train

NAVAL
Capital Ship: Eclipse
Escort Ship: Anarion-class Cruiser

MISCELLANEOUS
Trait: The Grand Forges
Primary Ally: Icona

Reasoning: This plan is based entirely around what I think would be a shame to not take, the things that I feel might take more engineering effort to recreate if we don't choose them now. A semiautomatic, a rotary machinegun, the engineering power armor, the Eclipse, the Forges. Anyway, that's my reasoning for this and I am torn between this and direct offensive.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Stirk on April 21, 2020, 04:59:56 pm

Quote from: Madman198237 on April 21, 2020, 04:53:07 pm

Quote from: Plan Votebox

Adventure Mode: (3) TricMagic, Vostok, Madman

I thought that you all agreed not to put an option in the vote box if nobody voted for it fixed

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Stirk on April 21, 2020, 05:32:54 pm

Lore options:

Democratic-Guild Etroa:

Craftsmen had always had an important part in society, Etroan society especially. Not only do they make the items we need to live our everyday lives, but they keep our economy rolling by making items for export, defend our nation by arming our soldiers, advance our culture by sponsoring artists, and advanced our scientific ability by investing in product development. It is only natural that craftsman should be at the helm of our great nation. Under this belief, Etroa has long been led by a series of powerful guilds based off our important industries. Which industry was important rise and fell with the time, and with it the guilds that had failed to change.

Originally the guilds would effectively rule over towns and villages. As the nation grew more complex, they would naturally have to work together in order to effectively govern a nation. This naturally lead to a conflict of opinion - especially where rival guilds where concerned. While force of arms had solved several issues early on, we soon realized it would be much cheaper to "Buy Support". Naturally the power of a guild is measured by its wealth. The more powerful and successful a guild was, the more money it would have. When two guilds came into conflict they would bring it before a council of all the major guilds in Etroa, whoever offered the larger bounty would typically be declared the winner in all but the most outrageous cases.

As technology and society developed over time, the "peasant class" had begun to advance to the point most had extra money to spend. This lead directly into them having more political power, given how directly wealth influenced Etroan politics. Thus emerged "The People's Guild", a collection of Etroan citizens from all professions and walks of life. It took donations from all its members and went before the Council to reform it. With few guilds able to match this newcomer's monetary firepower, it was able to force through new resolutions limiting how much one person or organization could spend to "Buy Support".  In effect, any citizen could show up to the council and pay a "poll tax" maxing out at the price of a loaf of bread and have as much influence as a major guild. This had on paper turned Etroa into a direct democracy, though many of the more powerful corporations fought back by issuing company script instead of Etroan coinage that could be spent on the Polls. Those that lasted longer tend to attempt to influence their new source of power - the people- using the money that would have been spent Buying Support. Today the Guilds effectively act as political parties in other nations, while still maintaining their business ties (barring The People's Guild).

Ever hungry for resources, the Guilds decided to invade Askia to gobble up their magnetic powers as the world begins to enter the Age of Electricity. While Askian steampower can be used to develop a nearly endless source of energy, combining it with Askia's gas making supermagnets would allow Etroa to control the global energy grid far into the future. Sensing coin, the Guilds promised every Etroan a cut of the profits of our global energy domination leading to widespread support.

HAIL THE EMPRA - Etroa

With the discovery of the sunstone, Etroa had believed itself to be blessed by the heavens. We where designated to rule the world as the sun rules the sky. Our light would shine on the rest of the world, be it the pleasant glow of the afternoon or the fiery rays scorching a desert. Early Etroa was lead by tribal leaders and priests working together, often forming single blocks of power where they are essentially the same. Inter-tribal warfare would lead to the development of three Kingdoms, which would in turn be united under one Empire. The Sun Emperor's line enjoys an unbroken succession running back centuries. It includes many of the protectorate's former ruling class, integrated into our ruling family as conditions for their capitulation and cooperation.

Even the Sun does not rule the sky alone. Etroa's lesser nobles consist of Sky-priests, Craftsmasters, and Highborn. Sky-priests are (as one would assume) the priest class, ruling over the Sunstone and Skytear mines and acquisition. While the land under their direct control is minimal, they are powerful both for their stranglehold of the special resources needed to run the nation and their influence over the religious among the general population. Craftsmasters are often taken from the general population, though the position can be filled by skilled craftsman from higher positions. They rule over towns, cities, and villages as a sort of mayor, or council of mayors in larger areas. Essentially the greatest craftsmen are presumed to be the greatest men, and are presumed to be able to craft society as they craft other material. Thus accomplished Craftsmen become Craftsmasters after being approved by a Highborn. In addition to their leadership duties, they run most day-to-day operations of the government including education and police work. The Highborn are the hereditary leaders - related to either the three Kings or from the Emperor's line. They officially preside over large portions of the nation, and officially rule over the protectorates entirely. They often concern themselves with National law, military matters, and foreign diplomacy. The Sun Emperor has absolute authority over Etroa and its colonies, with the other Highborn having slightly-less-than-absolute authority over their Territories.

Little major changes had rocked Etroa over the centuries after the Empire had been established. While the head of state changed constantly, the power shifted between the classes, and occasionally a puppet sat on the throne, the overall Empire had found itself to be very stable. It was constantly growing and accepting the culture of its colonies and protectorates, with foreign goods being much loved among the Highborn (many of whom state their foreign ancestors just as proudly as the Etroan ones, even if they where technically in a lower position before the merger). These tend to have a superficial effect on the government, a Highborn might call himself a Jarl like his great-great-great-great-grandma did but he is in exactly the same position as the Highborn next door calling herself the Duchess.

As for cause of war, the current Sun Emperor has been rather peaceful. It came as a shock to the nation when the beloved prince had been captured by Askian bordergaurds and held for ransom, and an even greater shock when he was brutally executed despite having been paid. Askians have rejected this notion, spreading a conspiracy theory that it was Etroan Highborn who had murdered their own prince to spur the Sun Emperor into war against Askia. Depending on how it is being told, they either wanted resources, political power, or to pay back a grudge of some sort. In any case it is clearly nonsense - no one would have done such a horrible thing to our prince.

Lol we really don't have a government - Etroa

Etroa is in a rather paradoxical state as "the Anarchist Empire". Mainland Etroa has little official government. The Militia has long acted as a basic police force (mostly keeping people from shooting each other in the streets) and military unit defending the loosely-grouped "nation" from outside assaults. So why - and how- did we invade other nations and take protectorates? Simple. The Militia needs funding. With no 'government' to fund it and very little private funding during peace time, the one 'government' organization would essentially be non-existent if there was not an ongoing threat. So they took in protectorates - not only a source of funding and manpower during the off-times, but an excuse to keep the Militia well stocked and ready for action. This works better than expected all around. The Colonies and Protectorates have no oppressive rules or laws beyond providing funding and CAP forces, leaving them almost entirely free while still protected by Etroa's Militia and reputation. Etroans themselves remain free of government control without so much as having to pay taxes, so long as they keep enough protectorates and colonies around to keep the legacy of Etroa's militia alive.

Without any laws to govern the nation, Etroa is vastly different from location to location. In general people with the same opinions gather together to enjoy their own 'culture'. Those who prefer a more rigid lifestyle (such as foreigners immigrating in from more traditional nations) might live in a province to the North or a Port, where the people police themselves harshly - so that someone stealing would be beaten by a mob as punishment. Others may live in shared housing with no idea of "personal property" in the heart of the nation, taking what they want or need when they want or need it with nobody having any issue with this setup. Still others live in fringe towns at are near absolute chaos, often populated by foreign criminals attempting to use Etroa as a hideout. Gang culture tends to be strong in fringe towns - both foreign and Etroan protection gangs that often act as squads for the Militia. How rigid or flexible the local culture is depend on the location, some communes have been around for centuries without changing while another popped up last week and is gone today. The closest thing to a consistent change is that 'fringe towns' appear on the fringes, often settling down once foreign criminals begin to enter whatever the fringe is.

It was in one recently de-fringed town that this conflict started. The Militia had just driven out a gang from a city on an island near the border. You could call the local culture 'jumpy', slowly making the transition from a constant state of street warfare to a more peaceful life. Some kids of Askian's higher ups heard Etroa fringe towns where a good place to make trouble and made a bad choice. Without any real government, Askia couldn't demand any sort of satisfaction or even get a story on what happened to the Askian expat. They had sent their military in to gather up the inhabitants of the town in order to doll out their own punishment, leading the Militia to intervene with this clear violation of Etroan sovereignty. Some people got shot, and the situation has escalated from there.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on April 21, 2020, 05:37:22 pm

Too money-hungry. And making us out to be the vilians, which goes against our Protectorate image.

Reasons For War: Retaliation

Palapala Hana, was one who served during the war to create a comprehensive guide and regulations for supplying the army and navy at the time with everything it needed after the original Operation Eclipse failed due to lack of supplies. It was Palapala's mastery of trade that supplied the fronts with all the materials needed for building forts overnight, and the supplies needed to fight, and the supplies needed for medical treatment, as well as calculated the needed supplies for the second attempt of Operation Eclipse. His was one of the efforts that led to our victory with minimal loss of life on our side, despite how long the war went on.

For this, he was elevated to General of the Supply Corps, and trained a number of students before settling down with his wife and child in our capital. His daughter Nāmea went on to enter the Army Academy that he set up, learning the tactics and stratagems of war, and received personal tutoring.

Normally, Palapala could have been chosen as the Commander, with numerous Military Minds advising him. However, he and his wife, along with many other officials, died in a overarching premeptive strike which used the lantarkifumes of the enemy, resulting in a death toll of hundreds of civilians in the process. This broken peace won't stand, for to strike at the heart of our Country can only mean one thing. War, for we as a people will not stand idle against this breach of what peace remained.

Quote from: Govermental Lore

HAIL THE EMPRA: (1) TricMagic

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Stirk on April 21, 2020, 06:48:53 pm

Quote from: TricMagic on April 21, 2020, 05:37:22 pm

Too money-hungry. And making us out to be the vilians, which goes against our Protectorate image.

But money is the ultimate good! I'm pretty sure that Askian lore doesn't say that they don't eat babies, so we can assume that they do. Thus everything we do is justified.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Stirk on April 24, 2020, 03:50:35 pm

Quote from: Govermental Lore

Democratic-Guild Etroa: (1) Stirk
HAIL THE EMPRA: (1) TricMagic

[/quote]

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on April 24, 2020, 04:04:05 pm

Quote from: Govermental Lore

Democratic-Guild Etroa: (2) Stirk, Madman
HAIL THE EMPRA: (1) TricMagic

I'll try and come up with something more to expand on this solid piece of lore once I'm out of Collegiate Final Project Hell^TM.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Rockeater on April 30, 2020, 05:42:36 pm

Quote from: Govermental Lore

Democratic-Guild Etroa: (2) Stirk, Madman
HAIL THE EMPRA: (1) TricMagic
Lol we really don't have a government - Etroa: (1) Rockeater

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on April 30, 2020, 06:23:59 pm

Quality, Refined, Comfort. Etroa Uniform.

Red-orange cloth shirt, pale yellow-white trousers of fine and durable make, steel hauberks over gambeson, with woven bases and steel tasset covering the hips and legs. And of course, the best boots and socks. Etroa has long come up with an effective outfit for our general troops, and it shows. The red, orange, and yellow represents the sun and volcano that has been our origin, and is the standard coloration for the army of both ancient times and modern day. With various outfits fit for different environments as well, with clothing that can fit a cold temperature, or some for muddy and hot environments, as well as a well-designed rain-cloak for comfort. No one can say we don't outfit our troops in some fine gear, even in the age of mass production.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Stirk on April 30, 2020, 07:11:37 pm

Uniform suggestion by Culture:

Guild-Democracy:
The first thing every Etroan soldier is issued is their Certificate. The Certificate is a pocket-sized strip of leather with pressed-on writing containing basic information about the soldier it was issued to, including their rank, home town, next of kin, and guild affiliation. Should a soldier fall in battle, their guild is required to pay compensation to their next of kin based off of their military rank and civilian job as listed on their certificate. Falsifying a Certificate is a grave crime. If the soldier has no guild affiliation, they can pay a small fee to join the Warfighter's guild. This is most common among foreign expats, especially CAP soldiers, who often lack guild membership status. The Certificate is held in a specialized pocket  in front of the heart of the uniform jacket. Emotional stories circulate about how a fatal blow was turned away by the home town or next of kin on an Etroan's soldiers certificate have some truth to them, some Etroans who do not mind the extra weight opt for a pressed-metal or metal covering paper alternative that occasionally catches a knife or bullet much in the way pocket bibles are said to in our world.

Our field uniform is mostly consistent across all forces in style, with practical changes based off the local environment and profession of the soldier. Someone stationed in a cold region or aboard a frozen ship would receive a fuzzy hat and thick coat, while someone in the desert would be provided with a wide-brimmed hat and thinner jacket appropriate for the region. They would both have dark blue coloring with properly spaced buttons on the front, with a small pin or decoration denoting their rank. Traditionally different guilds would have different rank decorations, usually with an example of their craft of varying quality based on the soldier's rank. Someone familiar with the work would be able to easily tell the quality of a piece, so those in the regiment would be able to instantly realize what the ranking was while laymen such as enemy soldiers would be unable to differentiate between officers and enlisted men. One example is a metalworker's guild making more and more detailed pins as the offers ranked up, or a hunter's guild placing a number of feathers from more rare birds in their hat as their rank increases. This practice has decreased in this era of mass deployment, where the others in your squad are unlikely to be members of the same guild and can't instantly realize that the feather on your hat is from a rare target, but is often held on an individual level for tradition's sake.

As for Dress Uniforms, there are none. Parades and the like are done in field uniforms, which are as a rule Etroan made and thus crafted by highly skilled artisans and beautiful in their own right. Nobody wants to pay for everyone to have multiple uniforms, and nobody has as of yet been able to force someone else to pay for them. Ceremonies and the like are done in civilian clothing based on the style of the time and personal wealth of the soldier. It isn't uncommon for a high-ranking officer to be outdressed by enlisted men with a bigger bank account than them. Generally "Sunday Best" is seen as acceptable for working-class men, while the wealthy are expected to wear fancy suits of the latest fashion or elaborate dresses from skilled artisans. Those in the Warfighters guild tend to do this backwards, wearing their field uniform even in ceremonies or civilian life. This is both practical and symbolic - they have no "civilian identity" and -as they are often foreigners- their uniform is the most high-quality outfit they have ever or will ever own. Some take to buying multiple uniforms out of their own pocket, with the wealthier CAP forces often adding a flair of their home country's fashion to their "Dress uniform".

HAIL THE EMPRA:

Uniforms are dictated at the Highborn level, leading to an array of style based on the personal tastes of the local ruler. By decree of the Sun-Emperor all must be "Sunset Red"(dark crimson or madder red), the traditional color of the Empire used in the battle banners since its creation. With the Highborn's typical love of foreign culture they often harp off of their ancestor's uniform (occasionally making practical changes if the local climate isn't as conductive to it as they like). As a result many of the Highborn's uniforms have an archaic feel to them, with Craftsmasters occasionally petitioning for practical update to keep the uniform in line with modern standards. Most common is a madder red tunic, often with an open coat and a pair of white trousers. Even is often accompanied by a verity of headware ranging from turbans to tricorns to ear-covering knit hats.

This trend continues with the Dress Uniforms. Often they are even more outdated when the practical considerations need not be taken into account, many Highborn issue elaborate suits of armor as their dress uniform, going as far as to dress up as old-timey knights themselves. Still cultural osmosis tends to win the day here. Dress uniforms are often a mix of classy adornments from all the cultures across Etroa and its colonies, to the taste and expense of the local Highborn. The relative peace time only allowed these uniforms to get more ornate, with Craftsmasters often offering pieces of armor as their test to become Craftsmasters. The most common among enlisted men is an ornate breastplate filled with their Highborn's symbols, often passed down through the regiment, with a decorated morion and crimson clothing beneath.

Lol we really don't have a government:

Would you expect anarchist to have a uniform? Well they *kinda sorta* do. The Militia is often known as the "Blue Bandannas" from their "Uniform", a bandana they place over their mouth demonstrating their place as a militia member. This is a habit picked up for the member's protection, it does some work to keep them from being recognized out of "uniform" limiting how much they are targeted in their civilian life by unappreciative gangs or others who don't like the militia's "don't murder people" stance. It is typically blue simply because the commune that makes them is sitting on a pile of blue dye, a generation ago they where red and before that they had a tie-dye phase. It isn't technically required, nor does it technically need to be blue. They otherwise wear civilian clothing to personal taste. Trench coats are in fashion on the front-line due to how practical they are in the trenches, but nobody is telling you you can't go to war naked.

Naturally the CAP forces have their own uniforms designed by their home countries. They occasionally "go native" if stationed with the Militia for too long, switching to civilian clothing after their field uniform gets worn down from continued use. How well this is tolerated depends on the particular nation that these soldiers come from.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on May 04, 2020, 10:57:25 pm

Quote

A Brief History of Etroan Expansion
While Etroa does have a long history of precise craftsmanship and expert workmanship, it is in fact relatively poor in many materials. Volcanic activity beneath the surface limits the availability of most resources, and as Etroa uses more and more we've come to realize that we do not have as many materials as we need. Certain basic resources can be found in Etroa, but we always realized the reserves were not very large. Specialized materials were easy enough to acquire elsewhere, and so we started down the path of conquest and empire.

It was only our right to have the materials necessary for our superior craftsmanship, after all.

A long time ago, we supported the small nation of Eld, who supplied us with the incredibly rare Skytears for our help and became one of our earliest Protectorates. With the benefits of this arrangement, Etroan policy quickly turned to trying to...convince....nations to side with us and become a Protectorate. Conquering and subjugating them is far more difficult than convincing them to join us, after all, and can still lead to very profitable arrangements.

Mairan is a recent addition, a trouble spot that has given rise to many of our best officers and soldiers. It was not entirely willing to become a Protectorate but the government caved when we offered to help suppress some troublesome... armed opposition to the ruling party. It has provided us not only skilled soldiers, but high-quality iron, coal, and some oil, all of which helped produce the well-equipped elite soldiers Mairan is famous for. Of course, the troubles have only increased since we took it over, and it isn't contributing enough to make up for the costs, but we're confident that it will eventually become one of our best provinces.

And so on. We conquered for many of our more specialized resources. Small countries in far-flung places, protected by our powerful navy and aided by the soldiers provided to us by our Protectorates. But, recently, the projections for more mundane resources have turned dire. Critical resources may not have more than a few decades' reserves left in Etroa itself, more and more mines and sawmills are closing as they run into geological hazards or run out of trees, and now we are faced with needing more. Our Protectorates are small and do not have the sort of deep reserves necessary to fuel our consumption. Our larger neighbors, then, are an obvious target to provide us with those materials, so we started to look at using them as a source, offered some very lucrative trade deals. But recently, the quality of the materials we're receiving has dropped and the cost has risen. Our needs, however, are rising as well, and the reduction in quality is harming our economy more than most know.

Sure, we don't admit to it. We accuse them of cheating us in business deals, there's talk of some natural deaths being assassinations, there was a big political fiasco made out of a bridge failure, claimed to have been caused by the low-quality steel...but the real reason is simple: We're not making enough money to maintain our empire. Many of the newly acquired territories of the recent expansions are not yet making real profits for the empire, and this massive sink of money and resources must be balanced out, and with the declining quality of trade goods this can't happen. In addition, we need to tie the empire together a little more, to help cut down on these brush wars.

All together, this means the best way to do so, perhaps paradoxically, is to start a major war. Such a war, if it can be made popular enough, will unify everyone under our banner and allow some crackdowns on "dissidents" in the less well-integrated territories and Protectorates. It will, eventually, get us more materials, but in the meantime it will allow us to spend government money in ways we normally can't, and incentivize new extraction operations in some of our territories. In short: This war should be what allows us to weather the transition of where we're getting our materials. Oh, and the target of this war needs to be strong enough to pose an apparent threat, but weak enough that we can overtake them. Hopefully the Askians don't complain too much about it, I'm sure their splintered government will appreciate the unifying opportunities a war provides. Their decentralized mess ought to pose little enough threat when we're ready for the war to end...

Here's some lore for "why we fight".

Quote from: Plan Votebox

Starting Armory
Adventure Mode: (3) TricMagic, Vostok, Madman

Uniform
Democratic-Guild Etroa Uniform: (1) Madman

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on May 05, 2020, 09:15:21 am

Quote from: Plan Votebox

Starting Armory
Adventure Mode: (3) TricMagic, Vostok, Madman

Uniform
Quality, Refined, Comfort. Etroa Uniform: (1) TricMagic
Democratic-Guild Etroa Uniform: (1) Madman

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Stirk on May 06, 2020, 06:26:16 pm

Quote from: TricMagic on May 05, 2020, 09:15:21 am

Quote from: Plan Votebox

Starting Armory
Adventure Mode: (3) TricMagic, Vostok, Madman
Grouped Voting Is Stupid, Also Everything That Stirk Voted On Individually Mode: (1) Stirk

Uniform
Quality, Refined, Comfort. Etroa Uniform: (1) TricMagic
Democratic-Guild Etroa Uniform: (1) Madman

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on May 06, 2020, 06:40:31 pm

Quote from: Stirk on May 06, 2020, 06:26:16 pm

Quote from: TricMagic on May 05, 2020, 09:15:21 am

Quote from: Plan Votebox

Starting Armory
Adventure Mode: (3) TricMagic, Vostok, Madman

Grouped Voting Is Stupid, Also Everything That Stirk Voted On Individually Mode: (1) Stirk
Grouped Voting is Perfectly Fine: (1) TricMagic

Lore
Democratic-Guild Etroa: (2) Stirk, Madman
HAIL THE EMPRA: (1) TricMagic
Lol we really don't have a government - Etroa: (1) Rockeater

Uniform
Quality, Refined, Comfort. Etroa Uniform: (1) TricMagic
Democratic-Guild Etroa Uniform: (1) Madman

Ignoring the position of Strik, votes?

Also guessing if you are going for the D-G EU, Guild is the Lore? Granted, Lore and uniform can differ. Either way, let us get votes so we can move onto the combat. And Airships finally, hopefully?

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Stirk on May 06, 2020, 06:49:32 pm

Ignoring the position of ignoring the position of Stirk's voters votes?

We basically have all our bases covered. Airships should be perfectly doable.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on May 06, 2020, 07:34:35 pm

Quote from: Votebox

Starting Armory
Adventure Mode: (3) TricMagic, Vostok, Madman
Grouped Voting Is Stupid, Also Everything That Stirk Voted On Individually Mode: (1) Stirk

Lore
Democratic-Guild Etroa: (2) Stirk, Madman
HAIL THE EMPRA: (1) TricMagic
Lol we really don't have a government - Etroa: (1) Rockeater

Uniform
Quality, Refined, Comfort. Etroa Uniform: (1) TricMagic
Democratic-Guild Etroa Uniform: (1) Madman

The votebox nested quote mess was irritating me. Also, Tric, Stirk is just voting for a "plan" that consists of the thing he voted for in the abortive not-plan-based votebox. That's perfectly valid and doesn't require a "counter-vote" because it's not something you can vote against.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Jilladilla on May 08, 2020, 03:18:58 pm

Normally I'm fairly ambivalent on the uniform, though using mail against bullets is very silly. Further votes may be edited in as I go back and look over things.

Quote from: Votebox

Starting Armory
Adventure Mode: (3) TricMagic, Vostok, Madman
Grouped Voting Is Stupid, Also Everything That Stirk Voted On Individually Mode: (1) Stirk

Lore
Democratic-Guild Etroa: (2) Stirk, Madman
HAIL THE EMPRA: (1) TricMagic
Lol we really don't have a government - Etroa: (1) Rockeater

Uniform
Quality, Refined, Comfort. Etroa Uniform: (1) TricMagic
Democratic-Guild Etroa Uniform: (2) Madman, Nemonole

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on May 08, 2020, 03:29:28 pm

Quote from: Votebox

Starting Armory
Adventure Mode: (3) TricMagic, Vostok, Madman
Grouped Voting Is Stupid, Also Everything That Stirk Voted On Individually Mode: (1) Stirk

Lore
Democratic-Guild Etroa: (3) Stirk, Madman, TricMagic
HAIL THE EMPRA: ()
Lol we really don't have a government - Etroa: (1) Rockeater

Uniform
Quality, Refined, Comfort. Etroa Uniform: ()
Democratic-Guild Etroa Uniform: (3) Madman, Nemonole, TricMagic

Something idiotic should absolutely be pointed out.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Stirk on May 08, 2020, 04:04:03 pm

Quote from: TricMagic on May 08, 2020, 03:29:28 pm

Quote from: Votebox

Starting Armory
Adventure Mode: (3) TricMagic, Vostok, Madman
Grouped Voting Is Stupid, Also Everything That Stirk Voted On Individually Mode: (1) Stirk

Lore
Democratic-Guild Etroa: (3) Stirk, Madman, TricMagic
HAIL THE EMPRA: ()
Lol we really don't have a government - Etroa: (1) Rockeater

Uniform
Quality, Refined, Comfort. Etroa Uniform: ()
Democratic-Guild Etroa Uniform: (3) Madman, Nemonole, TricMagic

Something idiotic should absolutely be pointed out.

Did you vote for the Empire just for your clothing?

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Jilladilla on May 08, 2020, 04:17:50 pm

Adding other vote. While I do have a slight preference towards 'The Grand Forge' over 'Rapid Fortification'... It's not that strong of a preference. And Stirk is voting for things I have much stronger preferences against.

Quote from: Votebox

Starting Armory
Adventure Mode: (4) TricMagic, Vostok, Madman, Nemonole
Grouped Voting Is Stupid, Also Everything That Stirk Voted On Individually Mode: (1) Stirk

Lore
Democratic-Guild Etroa: (3) Stirk, Madman, TricMagic
HAIL THE EMPRA: ()
Lol we really don't have a government - Etroa: (1) Rockeater

Uniform
Quality, Refined, Comfort. Etroa Uniform: ()
Democratic-Guild Etroa Uniform: (3) Madman, Nemonole, TricMagic

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Rockeater on May 08, 2020, 04:18:40 pm

Quote from: Votebox

Starting Armory
Adventure Mode: (5) TricMagic, Vostok, Madman, Nemonole, Rockeater
Grouped Voting Is Stupid, Also Everything That Stirk Voted On Individually Mode: (1) Stirk

Lore
Democratic-Guild Etroa: (3) Stirk, Madman, TricMagic
HAIL THE EMPRA: ()
Lol we really don't have a government - Etroa: (1) Rockeater

Uniform
Quality, Refined, Comfort. Etroa Uniform: ()
Democratic-Guild Etroa Uniform: (4) Madman, Nemonole, TricMagic, Rockeater

[/quote]

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Stirk on May 12, 2020, 08:19:16 pm

Quote from: Why are we Destroying Askia, Salting its Fields, and Burning its History from the face of the Earth?

Global Electric Domination: (1) Stirk

Apparently Askia is some kinda theocracy with strong military/corporate/rebel presence, if that helps anyone come up with ideas.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on May 12, 2020, 08:41:45 pm

Askian Blight
Let's face it, Askia is one of the most loosely held, chaotic, held together by magnetogas collection of individual ideas and ideals that has ever besmirched the face of this planet, with no structure whatsoever to it's whimsy. The only thing that has allowed it to survive is a dependence on said magnetogas and being so chaotic that no one can predict them in the first place. Etroa, while we've had our own problems with cultural identity over the years, have long stood firm on invention, quality of life for our people, and craftsmanship. But this war is just more of the same from them, poking a hornet's nest just to see it swarm. And don't get us started on their so called philosophies and treaties, we would be here all day dissecting their inconstancy over the ages.

It's honestly more of the same, no matter what label we put on it. Let us hope with our advancements that we will conquer their deserts this time, and end these wars for good...

Quote from: Why are we Destroying Askia, Salting its Fields, and Burning its History from the face of the Earth?

Retaliation: (1) TricMagic
Global Electric Domination: (2) Stirk, TricMagic
Askian Blight: (1) TricMagic

Plenty of Reasons: Yes: (1) TricMagic
Singular Reasoning: (0)

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on May 12, 2020, 09:08:14 pm

Spoiler: Repost of my "reason for war", I revised it and want people to see the new version (click to show/hide)

A Brief History of Etroan Expansion
While Etroa does have a long history of precise craftsmanship and expert workmanship, it is in fact relatively poor in many materials. Volcanic activity beneath the surface limits the availability of most resources, and as Etroa uses more and more we've come to realize that we do not have as many materials as we need. Certain basic resources can be found in Etroa, but we always realized the reserves were not very large. Specialized materials were easy enough to acquire elsewhere, and so we started down the path of conquest and empire.

It was only our right to have the materials necessary for our superior craftsmanship, after all.

A long time ago, we supported the small nation of Eld, who supplied us with the incredibly rare Skytears for our help and became one of our earliest Protectorates. With the benefits of this arrangement, Etroan policy quickly turned to trying to...convince....nations to side with us and become a Protectorate. Conquering and subjugating them is far more difficult than convincing them to join us, after all, and can still lead to very profitable arrangements.

Mairan is a recent addition, a trouble spot that has given rise to many of our best officers and soldiers. It was not entirely willing to become a Protectorate but the government caved when we offered to help suppress some troublesome... armed opposition to the ruling party. It has provided us not only skilled soldiers, but high-quality iron, coal, and some oil, all of which helped produce the well-equipped elite soldiers Mairan is famous for. Of course, the troubles have only increased since we took it over, and it isn't contributing enough to make up for the costs, but we're confident that it will eventually become one of our best provinces.

And so on. We conquered for many of our more specialized resources. Small countries in far-flung places, protected by our powerful navy and aided by the soldiers provided to us by our Protectorates. But, recently, the projections for more mundane resources have turned dire. Critical resources may not have more than a few decades' reserves left in Etroa itself, more and more mines and sawmills are closing as they run into geological hazards or run out of trees, and now we are faced with needing more. Our Protectorates are small and do not have the sort of deep reserves necessary to fuel our consumption. Our larger neighbors, then, are an obvious target to provide us with those materials, so we started to look at using them as a source, offered some very lucrative trade deals. But recently, the quality of the materials we're receiving has dropped and the cost has risen. Our needs, however, are rising as well, and the reduction in quality is harming our economy more than most know.

Sure, we don't admit to it. We accuse them of cheating us in business deals, there's talk of some natural deaths being assassinations, there was a big political fiasco made out of a bridge failure, claimed to have been caused by the low-quality steel...but the real reason is simple: We're not making enough money to maintain our empire. Many of the newly acquired territories of the recent expansions are not yet making real profits for the empire, and this massive sink of money and resources must be balanced out, and with the declining quality of trade goods this can't happen. In addition, we need to tie the empire together a little more, to help cut down on these brush wars.

All together, this means the best way to do so, perhaps paradoxically, is to start a major war. Such a war, if it can be made popular enough, will unify everyone under our banner and allow some crackdowns on "dissidents" in the less well-integrated territories and Protectorates. It will, eventually, get us more materials, but in the meantime it will allow us to spend government money in ways we normally can't, and incentivize new extraction operations in some of our territories. In short: This war should be what allows us to weather the transition of where we're getting our materials. Oh, and the target of this war needs to be strong enough to pose an apparent threat, but weak enough that we can overtake them. Hopefully the Askians don't complain too much about it, I'm sure their splintered government will appreciate the unifying opportunities a war provides. Their decentralized mess ought to pose little enough threat when we're ready for the war to end...

Quote from: Votebox

Starting Armory
Adventure Mode: (5) TricMagic, Vostok, Madman, Nemonole, Rockeater
Grouped Voting Is Stupid, Also Everything That Stirk Voted On Individually Mode: (1) Stirk

Lore
Democratic-Guild Etroa: (3) Stirk, Madman, TricMagic
HAIL THE EMPRA: ()
Lol we really don't have a government - Etroa: (1) Rockeater

Uniform
Quality, Refined, Comfort. Etroa Uniform: ()
Democratic-Guild Etroa Uniform: (4) Madman, Nemonole, TricMagic, Rockeater

Reason for War
Retaliation: (1) TricMagic
Global Electric Domination: (2) Stirk, TricMagic
Askian Blight: (1) TricMagic
A Brief History of Etroan Expansionism: (1) Madman

Per the GM on Discord, we need to choose a SINGLE choice, not "all of the above". Also, "Askian Blight"??? Are you kidding? That's the least original reason for war possible. Including it is just BEGGING for a loss.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Stirk on May 12, 2020, 10:58:20 pm

Nation idea dump:

Darbred: A long chain of islands of diverse sizes. Former occupants where warring tribes of varying sizes, often trading their natural resources with outsiders to obtain weaponry to shift the balance of power. We made a deal with one of the tribes to conquer the land, giving them enough weaponry and supplies to come out on top. Due to their geography they are often fishermen, those who join the CAP forces often end up aboard naval vessels either as seamen or marines. They have a tattoo culture that initially revolved around octopus ink and sea-urchin needles, which occasionally spills over to our other navy men.

Oliven, Koltcher, and Noblin:
A trio of nations on a far-flung continent. Conflict had begun to brew between the three nations when Noblin, a longtime trading partner, asked to become a protectorate to avoid the predations of its neighbors. Their offer was accepted and we deployed forces to the area to deter conflict. Koltcher got wind of the incoming reinforcements and, rather than being deterred, sped up the invasion in the hopes of obtaining victory before our men arrived. Noblin struggled to hold off the invasion when Oliven decided to take advantage of the conflict to invade both neighbors. While the majority of Noblin had been conquered by the time our forces had arrived, there was enough of an established foothold to successfully make landing and push back both invaders. The Liberation of Noblin ended with complete Etroan victory, with one new protectorate and two newly acquired colonies.

All three lie to the far north, with Noblin being the southernmost and warmest. It has a temperate hilly climate, with trees taking up the majority of uninhabited land. Oliven and Kolcher are considerably colder much of the year, coveting the fertile land of Noblin. Historically they where warlike raiders, grazing sheep on the steppes and along the shore respectively when the weather allowed it. They generally have heavy accents that the average Etroan can't differentiate between the three countries. They generally improved their relationship with each other since their bloody integration into our nation, with the local separatist movements generally lumping all three regions together as one. Many of the more well off Oliven and Kolcher winter in Noblin, while some in Noblin go north in Summer to find work. Oliven and Kolcher are easily identified by their long hair, elaborately braided with different techniques between their cultures (including the beards on men). Noblin has generally followed Etroan culture closer as the main dock to the region

Misr Territories (Formally the Kingdom of Misr)
Located in the desert, Misr had once been a powerful nation ruling its continent as the seat of an Empire. This was well before the arrival of Etroa to the land, it had begun stagnating and fragmenting for centuries since the height of its power. Misr had been a desert nation that survived on the banks of a series of massive rivers, using it to implement ingenious methods of irrigation in addition to swiftly moving trade goods and troops across its territories. Much of its architecture from its height remains - some even used practically to this day (with the occasional renovation). Its architecture is known for both beauty and practicality, inspiring many of the houses of power in Etroa.

This buildings would unexpectedly be their downfall. A master Architect running the Architects guild had gone on a journey to this location to learn its architectural secrets alongside many of his students. Here he had a stroke of inspiration: if he had the resources, he could bring the entire nation to its knees within a month so long as he had the time to set up. He brought is suggestion before the council who approved its funding.

His plan was to build a massive Dam using Etroa's impressive even at the time construction ability. Military forces had swiftly built a fortress to protect the workers, who proceeded to follow the plan to the letter. The rivers that where the lifeblood of the nation had been blocked off. Knowing that the deathtoll would be astronomical either in launching a full invasion of the heavily fortified Etroan front or in letting the water be cut off, the Kingdom surrendered in under a month as promised.

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Madman198237 on May 13, 2020, 12:32:49 am

Spoiler: The Shortened History of Etroa, Which is Neither Short Nor As Long As An Average Textbook (click to show/hide)

The History of Etroa and its Empire
Written by order of Master Arlat Cor, under the auspices of the Guild of Histories, here follows a truthful account of the history of Etroa itself, in brief, according to the oaths of the Guild and those taken by the journeyman whose work this is.

From the earliest days, humans have lived around the great caldera in the center of Etroa. It is a very rich land, with plentiful natural resources and unusually rich soil, along with the geysers and rivers. As all Etroans know, the land slopes down towards the center of the caldera. Rivers run down the slopes towards the mountains and the deserts, rainfall is plentiful in the southern regions. Wildlife was common and widely varied, as might be expected of such a rich territory. Of course, there are serious difficulties in travelling through the mountain passes in the rainy seasons, and it was difficult, at first, for Etroa to reach the seas in the South due to the Mountains, which merge with the rim of the caldera to produce high cliffs or steep hills just inland of the coastal regions, save in a few prized harbors, barely large enough for a small fishing fleet.

A word should be spared for the caldera itself, for its center is quite possibly the most impressive yet dangerous part of all of Etroa. A rise in the ground leads to the lip of a chasm, into which the brave and foolish have sometimes descended. Cracks in the rise sometimes give vent to streams of incandescent rock, molten and hot enough to set fire to anything organic that approaches within a few feet. Behind these cracks, inside the chasm, there is more molten rock, and visible on the ledges and outcrops are ancient treasures, sacrificed by the earliest tribes to their deities. Above these riches, and sometimes near them, can be seen the remains of the thieves, robbers, and valiant knights on quests who wished to recover some of these ancient treasures. The caustic environment is almost perfectly fatal to anyone who even dares to remain near the chasm for an extended period of time. Unfortunately for archaeologists, this also tends to corrode away anything not made of gold or silver that ends up in the chasm, limiting the things that can readily be recovered from the pit.

Etroa itself started with the tribes that called the area home. Many of them formed and the details of their lives are largely unimportant for this brief summary, save for a note on their beliefs. Some of these tribes worshipped the lava flows, and some animalistic belief systems appeared, and many minor deities were prevalent, as one would expect of such tribes. But there was one that would end up subjugating the others, and this tribe, the original Etroans, believed in a god of the forge. It is not known when this belief rose, and evidence suggests the tribe had previously worshipped the caldera, as did many tribes in the area. However, it appears that the rise of this new belief may have coincided with the rise of simple metallurgy, for the first idols of this god are decorated or made of copper and tin. This explanation is widely accepted by modern scholars, since it is unlikely that deity whose principle aspects were craftsmanship and creation would be worshipped for long without such idols.

Regardless of the origin of what would become the most common belief system in the Empire, this tribe's development of metallurgy was a huge advance. Copper tools are not as sharp as stone tools, but they can be sharpened much more easily and aren't destroyed nearly as fast as stone tools, and a wider variety of tools can be made with copper, and with more control over the final shape. This tribe fairly rapidly conquered most of the central regions of Etroa, and as they evolved they turned from conquest and destruction to subjugation. The Etroan tribe became the First Tyranny of Etroa, and its rule was marked by harsh centralization, cruelty, and an incredibly oppressive caste system. This is the first appearance of what we now know as the Guilds, except in this incarnation they were the tiers of a terrible caste system and used to hold down the members of other tribes who did not work metal. Any culture other than the Etroan beliefs and practices were functionally outlawed, though the concept of a law was not as developed as it would become in classical times. The First Tyranny was quite obviously hated by everyone under its rule, and before the memory of independence had faded it was overthrown, leaving behind a pair of public works projects that were never finished and a legacy of hate told through stories to later generations, the source of much of our modern understanding of the time.

The First Tyranny was overthrown by what would become the Tribal Alliance, a more or less equal gathering of all the tribes, save for the Etroan tribe itself, which was expelled from the area. The Tribal Alliance wasn't really a powerful entity of its own, every tribe being far more interested in preserving its autonomy after the First Tyranny. It was more or less a collective statement of opposition to the Etroan tribe, and lasted for a couple hundred years as a very loose statement of sorts. However, this would be broken by the rise of the Etroan Kingdom, as once again the banished Etroan tribe had come up with a new metallic invention, and this time, they were here to stay.

The Etroan tribe had discovered the usefulness of the "Sunseeds", a material not found too close to the caldera but in other parts of Etroa. It reacts with water, violently, to create heat, and is a colorful and amazing gemstone besides. The tribe had begun using these gems in Sunshard Spears and the beautifully deadly Macilmires, and they were used to deadly effect, paired with the use of lightly tin-tainted copper, which we now call bronze, from their new home away from the caldera. Their superior metal and the incredible horror which a blow from a sunseed-tipped weapon would inflict a victim quickly conquered the Tribal Alliance. The new Kingdom did learn more than a few lessons from the First Tyranny, and it lasted for hundreds of years, carrying us firmly into classical times. The new dominion was cultural in nature, for their worship of the god of the forge led the Etroan tribe to believe its craftworks superior to all others, and anything produced by a nonbeliever was useless, unfit for use in the Kingdom. This quickly lead to the adoption of the forge deity and the rest of the Etroan pantheon, and from there the Etroan beliefs slowly but steadily overcame the tribal identities. The Guilds arose in a more modern form, being sort of religious in nature, each dedicated to a different Etroan deity who dealt in a different form of craftsmanship. The Blacksmith's Guild was of course the most powerful, followed by other metalworking guilds such as the handful that became the Jeweler's Guild. The other crafts were close enough to equal, though the equivalent of a Farmer's Guild was not as formal as the other Guilds and held no power. Farming was not held as a worthy craft, and this nearly starved Etroa, several times in fact. Following the rise to power of the Guilds, succession changed, from being an election amongst those descended from the Etroan tribe itself to being an election amongst the leaders of the Guilds. Interestingly, bribery amongst the Guilds did not drive most elections for most of the Kingdom, because of a few memorable instances of the Warmaker's Guild, traditionally not a very wealthy Guild during times of peace for rather obvious reasons, insisting that it be a death penalty offense to attempt to sway the vote via monetary means. With a concerningly pointed list of arguments for why this should be so.

Late in classical times, the small kingdom of Misr was claimed by ingenious engineering tricks following the invention of the Lunguma, after the war with the Ofal and defense of Icona, our first Protectorate. The story of that war is told elsewhere and need not be repeated here. Following the invention of the Lunguma and its use in that war, other uses were thought up. The rapid construction of a dam and fortress on the Misr's main river and water supply quickly convinced them to submit and they were colonized. Their desert lands were not all that productive, but their great knowledge of hydroengineering and architecture informed Etroan practice for generations. Misr was conquered due to the whims of the first of the Mad Kings of Etroa, and it seemed at first that it had been nothing more than a senseless desire, for the desert peoples had nothing but sandstone and just about enough crops to feed themselves. But then an ingenious engineer suggested ways to use the dammed water to expand the desert farmland, and for a time Misr became one of the breadbaskets of Etroa. It was here that the modern Farmer's Guild did arise, and their crops did much to help reduce the issues caused by Etroans regarding farming as labor unfit even for peasants. Despite this belief, slavery never took hold in Etroa, for the rules of the deities held that anyone who practiced a worthy craft could not be enslaved, and so while the occasional Etroan took foreign slaves, all of them quickly learned a simple craft, such as woodworking, and had to be freed.

The Angamolen followed the Lunguma, and following the retaking of the Ofal conquests, Etroa turned its attention to the stubborn holdout tribes in the mountains and hills. These were defeated, and the extent of Etroa was now limited by the Askians to the East, and the Sea to the North and South. Immediately to the west laid Misr, and the barren desert ended Etroan expansion in that direction. Etroan society was now nearly homogeneous and dedicated to craftsmanship and to the forge god and his attendants, who had created the world and at times worked in the forge at the center of the world. Naturally, the center of the world was the great caldera in which lived the Etroans, the very center of which was the fiery chasm so sacred to the early tribes. And so Etroa was destined to be the ruler of the world, for why else would the great Molen Aina, god of the forge, place us around his forge and teach us his secrets? So went the logic of the Kingdom's expansion, until it could expand no further over land.

The Kingdom was from time to time interrupted by the rules of tyrannical lunatics, Kings hated by all and denounced as Tyrants, indeed these periods of rule by Tyrants are considered to be the latter "Tyrannies", interruptions in the lawful rule of righteous Kings. The First Tyranny is different, because it was more rule by a single dominant tribe than by an individual, but it still earns the moniker. The crimes of the Tyrants are listed elsewhere, and we will not repeat them here, for they are best left forgotten. Also during this time are the rules of the famed Mad Kings of Etroa, the tales of whom are variously used for morality or amusement amongst young children.

A period of relative quiet ended the Etroan Kingdom, a few skirmishes with Askia, some discontent in Misr, the rise of a rebellious sect of believers here and there. A small peasant's rebellion near the end is the only thing worth mentioning, where a few farming peasants of lower station than the craftsmen of the cities rose against said craftsmen, and promptly rediscovered the pain of Sunseed weapons. The present King, the last, in fact, of the famed Mad Kings, issued them a punishment, the likes of which none but a madman could conceive of. The farmers couldn't imagine it either, and quieted down after the three-year punishment, where they had to work the ground with nothing but the tools they could make themselves, which naturally included no metal tools. For if you could craft metal, surely you would not waste your life as a farmer? The Kingdom afterwards found itself slowly falling into a state of moderately corrupt sloth, not really doing anything of note...until the invention of the Great Galleon.

Etroa had become a more seafaring nation as increased usage of steam power allowed for the poor natural harbors to be widened over the course of generations of work, and we had contacted the small nation of Eld very early on. Their story is likewise told elsewhere, but in exchange for aid we acquire their strange Skytears, which can alter the density of objects. These lead to the creation of huge ships that were unusually light, nearly unsinkable in most conditions, pride of the Shipwright's Guild. The use of these ships to explore the world lead Etroa to three northern nations of Noblin, Koltcher, and Oliven. During a brutal three-way war, Etroa ended up intervening on the side of Noblin, a trade partner, leading to the reduction of the northern pair of nations to colonies and Noblin becoming a Protectorate. The present King, Ounon, declared himself the first Emperor and decreed that his descendants would rule, founding the historical Etroan Empire. This was, naturally, a deeply unpopular move with the Guilds, but the Emperor had a plan. He, and his successors, spent three generations building loyalty to the Emperor, and the Emperor alone, in the Protectorates and colonies (and adding new ones), and used this loyalty to economically and politically crush the Guilds and their corrupt lackies in the government. This clever move would even reduce the corruption problems, for a time.

The Empire now sourced wool and timber from the three northern nations, food from Misr, and Skytears from Eld, amongst many smaller colonies and Protectorates. Its crafts were world-renowned, particularly in metalworking. Engineering knowledge and Engineering Guild membership would rise, and religion fell behind. Religion, after all, was the evil disease of the neighboring Askians, with whom Etroa never quite managed to stop fighting. The industrial era fast approached, and Etroa was far ahead of many nations in industrializing. The Self-Contained Turbine Apparatus was the first of the incredible leaps to be made, and it powered the Etroan nation through to the modern era. The threat of the Yuzuan upstarts loomed large, and so the great plan was laid: The monstrous task of freezing a village-sized piece of the ocean into a warship and sailing it across the seas to batter our way onto the Yuzuan homeland and claim it for our own. Operation Eclipse forced a peace onto the hated enemy and we claimed many of their territories. Shortly thereafter, the islands of the Darbred chain were also turned into a Protectorate by funding one of their warring tribes with our outdated weaponry, all of which was superior to what was in use on the islands beforehand.

It did not take long, however, for the Empire to come apart at the seams. Modern sentiment was turning towards democracies, and an unexpected problem arose for the nobility, crippled by the work of Ounon and dwindling in numbers. High-quality arms and armor were becoming available to regular Etroans. No more did peasants fear being literally exploded at the hands of a noble's loyal soldiery, since they wore the same bullet-resistant lightened steel armor and carried the same incredibly accurate rifle. The rise of the sixth ruler of the Empire was marked by a disagreement over succession and a series of pretenders coming forwards for the throne, and in the midst of a brutal, but limited, civil war the remains of the nobility tore itself to pieces fighting for the throne, and by the end there was little left. One of the nobility, ruler of the Warmaker's Guild's largest city, eventually claimed the throne with the skills of his Guild, but a peasant revolt swept away the remnants of the Empire. The Guilds took control over the entirety of Etroa, and for a time their money ruled the country. Then the People's Guild appeared and the other Guilds were not sure what they could do to stop the upstart without sparking another revolt, and before long it was too late. The People's Guild had reformed all of Etroa into its modern democratic form.

Finally, we have reached the modern era, and find Etroa as we know it today. A land of factories, and workshops, massive dams, ports carved into mountainsides, entire towns built and rebuilt as necessary, craftsmanship valued more than anything else. Mairan was recently conquered, and its elite CAP units are already the envy of most of our Protectorates despite the many problems Mairan itself has had with rebellious elements. Darbred as well has had some problems with the rise of cults, who claim to follow the traditions of their tribes. In addition, there is unrest amongst the members of some Guilds, particularly the Farmer's Guild, Forester's Guild, and Herding Guild, that their crafts are not paid as well as they should be. Farmers, loggers, herders, and similar producers of essential materials have less power than others in Etroa, since others can charge much more money for their crafts. They believe they should be considered to be members of all crafts, since they allow all others to do their work. Some see merit in this, and some do not, and it has become an increasingly large point of contention.

The great extent of craftsmanship throughout Etroa gives it a shine, one that covers the problems with a sheet of silver, gold, and steel. Those who do not craft, are not valued. Farmers are still only tolerated, despite the best efforts of the enlightened who prefer eating, even with low-quality utensils, to starving next to cabinets full of golden plates. Etroa's resources as well are running out, and tensions with Askia are climbing towards what might be an ugly war. But Etroa will surely make something great out of the situation.

It is, after all, what we are best at.

Well, it's not *finished*, but it's pretty close and stupidly long. Sorry, I got carried away. I am now even more sorry because oh crap, this is even longer now. Hence the spoiler.

Spoiler: Excerpts from "The Annals of the Mad Kings", a short additional lore piece that is very nearly as long as the lengthy lore piece it started from (click to show/hide)

Excerpts from "The Annals of the Mad Kings"
The "Mad Kings", or sometimes "Mad Queens", of Etroa are a series of monarchs who ruled at different times across our history. No particular relation is any dynasty is required, because Mad Kings rarely popped up repeatedly. Instead, "Mad King" is an almost honorific title, given to someone so breathtakingly, earth-shatteringly mad that they looped all the way back around to successful, though to accuse them of sanity is generally considered to be a form of insult. For these are no garden-variety insane monarchs or boringly normal raving lunatics, no, these are the truly Mad. The monarchs so loony they accomplished things through a combination of complete unpredictability, accident, by failing their original goals, or the guiding hand of fate dropping onto the cosmic scales so heavily it's amazing they still balance out for us mere mortals. More or less, anyway.

Their stories are legends amongst Etroans, and are commonly used for children's stories teaching morality, or meant to amuse. They're also a favored topic in schools, and writing some history about them is one of the earliest tests a prospective member of the Guild of Histories might take. Counting amongst their ranks such beloved figures as Ractios the Fractured, Autrea the Diplomatic, and Larnen the Untrusting, these wonderful characters are a cornerstone of Etroa. Here follow the accounts of their deeds, from first to last.

Early Etroan kings, and the odd queen, came largely from the Blacksmith's Guild, which in those days was a highly traditional institution with quite a lot of power. The other Guilds typically spent generations building enough standing and backing amongst the people to put one of their own in power, and the Weavers' Guild was poised, seven Kings after the ending of the Tribal Alliance, to put their monarch on the throne of Etroa. Unfortunately for them, their candidate was dismembered in a horrifying steam-powered spinning wheel accident, and as they scrambled to put their campaign back together (their candidate, unfortunately, was well beyond the point of no reassembly) the election happened and they lost their chance. For the next King was the kleptomaniacal Earus of Anosiath, a monarch raised to the throne from the Architects' Guild (a separate institution from the more modern Guild of Architecture, origin of the modern Guild of Structural Engineers, but not the origin of the Guild of Engineers, and entirely unrelated to the Guild of Stonewrights and Architects). The Architects' Guild had also been planning to put someone on the throne, and the sudden collapse of the Weavers' Guild attempt cleared the way for the great success. The Blacksmith's Guild had failed to win back the throne because the previous monarch had been one of theirs, and is rightly remembered only as Dairin the Impressively Inconsequential. How he received this name is not well understood, apparently even at the time it was considered to be truly meaningless. He accomplished absolutely nothing whatsoever and is generally considered to be the most incredibly mediocre monarch in the history of monarchies. Regardless of the exploits, or technically lack thereof, of his predecessors, Earus was poised to catapult the Architects' Guild to fame. And then it turned out that he was something of a possessive sort, and the stress of monarchy turned him into a full-blown must-possess-everything kleptomaniac. Now, usually his demands were easy enough to meet and he DID revolutionize some aspects of Etroan city planning, but then he realized that there were nations outside of Etroa, and things went downhill rapidly. He demanded the small nation of Misr. Now for most people this would be really, amazingly problematic. Declaring war on a desert tribe with large numbers of horsemen and camels and the ability to navigate around the desert is a terrible idea. However, the Misr were a farming people, and spent much of the year on the banks of a large river that came down from the mountainous rim of the Etroan Caldera. One of the King's retainers, a devious-minded architect (we get a lot of them like that in Etroa, actually), came up with a cunning plan. He'd spent some years living amongst the Misr, so aside from being a treasure trove of information he knew how to break them. So the Etroan military built a dam on the river, and when the Misr marched on the dam, they built a pair of fortresses to protect it from attack, and forced the Misr to surrender. However, in his later years Earus became depressingly more sane, or at least better at being satisfied with the things he could steal, and in a show of remorse or possibly an intelligent long con he used the dam and its reservoir to build up an extensive irrigation system, making the Misr rich, sparing many Etroans the inglorious fate of a farmer and also making Misr permanently dependent on Etroa. Misr is now just a region of Etroa, its populace is Etroan in every way, but back then it was often all that kept them in the Kingdom.

The second of the Mad Kings was Ractios, the Fractured. He was one of a slew of monarchs elected from the Architects' Guild after their massive growth in power caused by the absorption of Misr and all its knowledge into the Empire. Known principally for adopted entirely different personalities for any given mood he might be in, Ractios demanded a palace and throne room for every moon and personality. This resulted in an almost fractal-looking spiderweb of palaces and gates and doors and courtyards making up his still-expanding palace, when he was finally brought down by a revolt of the farmers, angry once again at their mistreatment under the more powerful crafting Guilds. Or, rather, nearly brought down. The mob broke down the first set of doors into his palace, only to discover another five equally well protected (and magnificent) archways raised in front of them. And so the mob split up and broke down those doors, to discover that the defenders had retreated into a maze of corridors, unoccupied throne rooms, and courtyards. The mob burned a dozen throne rooms, and finally got bored, and went home. Thus was Ractios, who had retreated into his "absolutely terrified" throne room, the one with the pit trap, spared the wrath of the angry farmers. This also spared many architects and masons from unemployment, since after making the massive throne complex there were no more jobs for the medium-sized army of masons and architects he had raised to do the job. Ractios' story is told in many forms throughout Etroa. Farmers tend to paint him as a villainous figure and a reminder to have patience, others point out the wisdom in waiting out your enemies and misdirecting them. Still others point out the glory of architecture, but we're pretty sure that's limited to the Guild of Stonewrights and Architects, and nobody cares about them.

Some generations after Ractios, Autrea the Diplomatic is recognized as the third Mad Monarch, so named for the number of diplomatic agreements she made in Etroa's favor. She was, in fact, not very diplomatic at all, but rather unendingly precise to a fault. No sane person could stand to debate the finer points of a treaty with her, and thus she managed to get great concessions out of foreign rulers and diplomats who wanted desperately for the minutiae to stop. She is known as Mad, rather than merely a great (though obnoxious) diplomat because her obsession with precision dominated every aspect of her life, and indeed it is said she died after ruling for only eight years, after spending seventy-two hours screaming at servants to set her dining table "properly", an arduous affair involving a primitive sort of ruler and many, many fine adjustments to the silverware. This was not unusual, but it was during a time of unusual activity of the caldera, and the minor tremors, which went on for six weeks afterwards, continually disrupted the silverware. It is unknown of whether she died of dehydration, a stroke or heart attack, or a servant finally having had enough and killing her, but it seems that nobody in the palace, whatever happened, was inclined to investigate her death. Her lesson for children is that if you are more knowledgeable than your opponents, you will win. Her lesson for adults is that when arguing with an intelligent child, you will never win.

Strangely enough, when Autrea was succeeded by a member of the Guild of Histories, an unusual affair in an of itself as that Guild is not very powerful and rarely wins elections, the new monarch also became a Mad King. Larnen the Untrusting, an incredibly paranoid monarch who saw plots everywhere and in everyone, and routinely removed executives from power after they'd been there just long enough to learn the job, since he was afraid of them plotting to overthrow him with their knowledge. In the process, he accidentally managed to eradicate corruption from the governing bureaucracy entirely, since every single powerful family, Guild, or foreign power ran out of corrupt choices for the position long before his reign was up, and by the end he was literally picking random people off the street to serve as bureaucrats. His rampant paranoia crippled the efforts of the rich and powerful to corrupt the government for decades, and despite the fact that he eventually determined that the floors were in on the plots and he needed to fly away out his uppermost tower's window to escape, he is generally regarded as a successful monarch. His story is given usually as an amusing tale, but it is sometimes paired with a lesson about unpredictability or randomness. The Statisticians Guild supposedly venerates him as a living proof that random sampling is a more effective system than nonrandom sampling.

Arana, the Arachnophobe. True enough, Arana was an arachnophobe. However, she was not merely arachnophobic. Similarly to Larnen before her, she was perhaps a mite paranoid. She suspected the arachnids were out to get her, and had death squads sweep the grounds of the palace hourly to kill any arachnids that could be found within it. After many years, she is believed to have suffered some form of head trauma, and became convinced that a rare form of beetle-like insect was in on it as well, since it had eight legs, just like spiders. Therefore, she ordered the entire kingdom to destroy every spider and beetle they could. This worked about as well as you might expect on the spiders, and indeed Arana would die of fright upon realizing her efforts had failed. However, they managed to destroy the beetles, an impressive feat for sure. Etroa harvests nearly doubled the year after the War on the Arachnids, and modern scholars generally believe that the beetles were native to Askia, of a sort that does great harm to many crops that would otherwise thrive in the Etroan climate. Arana accidentally aided the Kingdom, without meaning to do anything other than murder arachnids and things that looked like arachnids. Her lesson tends to be one of finding good in evil acts, such as the attempted removal of an essential component of the ecosystem, though most arachnophobes simply applaud her attempts to destroy spiders, understandably.

Nemnarch the Mad is one of the most famous of Mad Kings. He is not called "the Mad" because he was insane, but rather because he was constantly, unreasonably angry. His incredible temper lead him to rage at anyone and anything that remained within his sight for more than a few seconds. He is not a Tyrant, however, because he did not ever actually seem to do any serious harm to anyone, despite his endless anger. Instead, he is remembered as a Mad King for his contributions to the Etroan vernacular, in the form of various curses, insults, and (mostly derogatory) sayings. In addition, Nemnarch was most certainly a master of anger management, as he carefully stored and grew his anger so that he never lacked any of it to spew forth at everyone around himself. It is said that his masterful raging and cursing won several border skirmishes with Askians, who found themselves unable to meet the mad Mad King's eyes or stay within range of his lethal vocabulary, which is said to have caused bleeding from the head, deafness, and crippling lack of self-esteem at distances of up to fifteen hundred meters. Later attempts to weaponize his curses have proven unfortunately unsuccessful to date.

Last of the Mad Kings was the incredible Sormatin, known variously as "the Betrayer", "the Devious", and "the Twistedly Humorous". His exploits involve many pranks the like of which no sane human being could ever devise, the issuing of bizarre punishments for crimes, and the betrayal of every single political ally he had, one at a time, in the most exquisitely complicated ways, which never seemed to end badly. For him. He managed to betray the legendarily corrupt Guild of Politicians, a group that had recently formed and attempted to dominate Etroan politics. After a mere two decades in existence they were the strongest Guild and poised to elect the next monarch...but then Sormatic, formerly a member, betrayed them and revealed their corrupt dealings in a lengthy speech to the common people. These people formed an angry mob, burned down the Guild of Politician's headquarters and stole their entire treasury. The repugnant Guild dissolved shortly thereafter. After that, he managed to get himself elected King, by aligning himself with every other candidate and betraying them in one after the other. He then set punishments so unbelievable that some of them are still on the books, such as his famous defeat of a farmers' rebellion, in which he forced the rebellious farmers to surrender every tool they had that they had not made themselves, and forbade them from buying new ones until three years had past. Needless to say, this punishment impressed and horrified every single farmer in Etroa, for they had expected mass hangings for treason and had instead seen the most inventive punishment imaginable levelled on their fellow farmers. The punishment for a Farmers' Guild rebellion is, in fact, still in Etroan Law and has remain unchanged since that rebellion. Sormatic would go on to do many other hilarious deeds and, arguably, misdeeds, before betraying everyone in the palace on his deathbed, by informing them all, mere minutes before expiring, that he had paid them with fake coins for three years, and that they were all fired in addition to that. Where the real money went is not known, but it is suggested that the sudden and unexplainable gain in money seen by the Guild of Traitors shortly thereafter may be connected. The fact is, however, that we'll never know, since the Guild of Traitors was a brief-lived and obviously unstable venture that failed shortly thereafter due to infighting.

--- Excerpts from "The Annals of the Mad Kings", covering a few of the notable characters in that list.

(Brief completely out of character author's note: Yes, I know, Madman writing something humorous about "Mad Kings". Trust me, the idea first occurred in the above lore piece, and then I realized that, really, they should get more time in the spotlight, so I added another one, and, well, now look where we are. Anyway, the connection to my name I realized only after I started writing this, but I hope it gives you guys some additional amusement because this is supposed to be amusing.)

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: Rockeater on May 16, 2020, 03:49:21 am

Quote from: Votebox

Starting Armory
Adventure Mode: (5) TricMagic, Vostok, Madman, Nemonole, Rockeater
Grouped Voting Is Stupid, Also Everything That Stirk Voted On Individually Mode: (1) Stirk

Lore
Democratic-Guild Etroa: (3) Stirk, Madman, TricMagic
HAIL THE EMPRA: ()
Lol we really don't have a government - Etroa: (1) Rockeater

Uniform
Quality, Refined, Comfort. Etroa Uniform: ()
Democratic-Guild Etroa Uniform: (4) Madman, Nemonole, TricMagic, Rockeater

Reason for War
Retaliation: (1) TricMagic
Global Electric Domination: (2) Stirk, TricMagic
Askian Blight: (1) TricMagic
A Brief History of Etroan Expansionism: (2) Madman, Rockeater

Title: Re: Commander Arms Race: Etroan R&D (Preliminary Turn 5 - Final Phase)
Post by: TricMagic on May 24, 2020, 02:08:57 pm

Quote from: Votebox

Starting Armory
Adventure Mode: (5) TricMagic, Vostok, Madman, Nemonole, Rockeater
Grouped Voting Is Stupid, Also Everything That Stirk Voted On Individually Mode: (1) Stirk

Lore
Democratic-Guild Etroa: (3) Stirk, Madman, TricMagic
HAIL THE EMPRA: ()
Lol we really don't have a government - Etroa: (1) Rockeater

Uniform
Quality, Refined, Comfort. Etroa Uniform: ()
Democratic-Guild Etroa Uniform: (4) Madman, Nemonole, TricMagic, Rockeater

Reason for War
Retaliation: ()
Global Electric Domination: (1) Stirk,
Askian Blight: ()
A Brief History of Etroan Expansionism: (3) Madman, Rockeater, TricMagic