Yeah, the problem with that kind of apathy is you're not the only one thinking that.
By "little guys", you mean the actual representatives of your vote, not some "lesser umbrella party", I hope.
what will one vote do dilemna more generally
Changed. The gap, by some polls, is as low as three points. May's lead has definitely decreased massively.
If your constituency is like 90% Labour garaunteed or something, voting for any other party will still send a message. A very small one, admittedly, but still a message. Green and UKIP being very different messages.Quotewhat will one vote do dilemna more generally
It is true that one vote won't make a difference generally. But it's important that people generally don't reason this way, obvs. Also, there's a very small chance of making a large difference. Voting is worth doing.
despite it being perfectly natural to prioritise the well-being of yourself, your family, your neighbours and countrymen over that of someone half a world away.Btw, naturalistic fallacy dude. You have to give better justification for your arguments than "it's normal".
Falklands is an expensive White Elephant however, it's entirely symbolic. 60+ million pounds per year to protect a symbol of the glory days of the Empire.
Yeah, let Argentina have at it, then use that 60 million quid for something actually in the UK. People will forget about Falklands within an election or two, but the money saved is forever.
Falklands is a symbol but does it have so much value that's it's worth the money? Brits don't get some daily boost by remembering the Falklands, they only remember about it when it's in the papers.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/falkland-islands-cost-2012-2?r=US&IR=T
61 million pounds, with an annual increase of about 3 million pounds.
And when you count that as per-Falklander then it's about 25000 pound per person. You could hand that to Argentina, then offer all Falklanders an ongoing cash payment if they want to relocate, and still save money. After all they'll be spending that money in the UK.
Another terrorist attack. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40146916)They shouldn't. I don't like the stupid election but I utterly dislike 'rewarding' those who doubtless did this at this time. The message should be to pause party campaigning but continue to tell people to vote.
They're discussing suspending the election.
Another terrorist attack. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40146916)
They're discussing suspending the election.
Her response to the terrorist attack was basically "Yeah, internet encryption shouldn't be a thing any more" which, to anyone with even the slightest knowledge of how the internet works, should be a major sign of her bloody idiocy.Also "Enough is enough". As in, Manchester wasn't enough? Westminster Bridge wasn't enough? Tough words, but rather a non-sequitur when you think about it.
Edit: I forgot her desire to scrap the Human Rights Act, too.
What effect would a Labour victory have on Brexit?
They still exist, but after UKIP was founded they lost all of their more mainstream voters and all of their few elected positions. Didn't help that they got censured a few times for not allowing nonwhite members.
The BNP still exist, man. I have no idea what they stand for other than "NO IMMIGRATION, FUCKING MUSLIMS" but they're there.Last I checked they failed to pay the thingy that means they're an official party.
1) Who is that TempletonPeck?
2) Why is there a archive link to a google search page?
3) Tweets are really easy to fake.
4) Not sure what the law on postal ballot is in the UK. Can they open them before d-day? That'd be weird.
P.S. From what I find on wiki, they're supposed to be sealed and only counted during the count. The one info that'd be public would be postal turnout I guess, which make sense since one of Labour's issue is to get young people to turn up.
Mrs. May wants to toughen Human Rights' laws (http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-40181444) 'cause terrorists.
Mrs. May wants to toughen Human Rights' laws (http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-40181444) 'cause terrorists.What's amusing is that it isn't the traditional "Go directly to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect £200" and more just forced to go down the snake to the bottom row of the board, to just annoy them but not really stopping the determined ones from coming back.
Falklands is an expensive White Elephant however, it's entirely symbolic. 60+ million pounds per year to protect a symbol of the glory days of the Empire.I disagree; the Falklands are not a symbol of the glory days of Empire, whatever that is. The Empire's been dead for a long time, not a lot of people remember it, thus to maintain a symbol of something dead would not make sense - but you must be mistaken in believing that this most obscure of Atlantic islands is a symbol of the prestige of Empire.
Yeah, let Argentina have at it, then use that 60 million quid for something actually in the UK. People will forget about Falklands within an election or two, but the money saved is forever.
Falklands is a symbol but does it have so much value that's it's worth the money? Brits don't get some daily boost by remembering the Falklands, they only remember about it when it's in the papers.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/falkland-islands-cost-2012-2?r=US&IR=T
61 million pounds, with an annual increase of about 3 million pounds.
And when you count that as per-Falklander then it's about 25000 pound per person. You could hand that to Argentina, then offer all Falklanders an ongoing cash payment if they want to relocate, and still save money. After all they'll be spending that money in the UK.
Is May becoming unpopular? or is this like... Trump where he was "unpopular"Wouldn't say May was ever popular, so much as people had confidence in her because all of her opposition imploded. All in all I wish the Tories were less retarded and hypocritical in ways. Difficult election all around, personally I had to pick between choosing an MP who is spectacularly competent but would provide a strong voice against Brexit, which obviously I would rather not see occur. My alternative then would be to choose a middlingly competent MP from labour who would provide a weak voice against Brexit, or else vote for the Conservative MP who doesn't even live in my area and reeks of "doing this for the money".
it is terrifying
I shall also take this opportunity to note that the British polling and voting system is quite peculiar, and that I do not understand it. Of course, since I do not know its merits and its more arcane workings, I cannot say that it ought to change. It appears to be working, and I find this focus on getting local men elected to parliament rather pleasing. It implies (or ought to imply) that they answer to their voters and community first, and their party second. Like they jolly well ought to.While the last bit is perhaps agreeable, on the whole it's a load of shit and we'd be much better off like the Norwegians. Most people I know in Merrie England here concur, Conservative or Labour. I recall there was a referendum on either keeping First Past the Post or throwing the ballot boxes into the sea and consulting a witch-doctor a while back, but people preferred the current mess to whatever was proposed (hint - it wasn't PR).
or indefinitly of Corbyn wins and cancels the Brexit. It can be doneThis seems unlikely, unless the Lib Dems a) get a majority and b) keep their promises. I mean, Corbyn was probably more pro-Brexit than May.
I recall there was a referendum on either keeping First Past the Post or throwing the ballot boxes into the sea and consulting a witch-doctor a while back, but people preferred the current mess to whatever was proposed (hint - it wasn't PR).https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum,_2011
Doublepost because exitpollsholyfuck.
Conservative 314
Labour 266
SNP 34
Lib Dem 14
Plaid 3
Green 1 UKIP 0
Other 18
326 needed to majority.
Wowow
It'll be an especially hung parliament - the major non-tory paries together still don't have a majority.I'd just like to speak on the part of Sinn Fein a moment here.
Could we see the tories have to go in with the irish parties?
Heh, not being able to form a new government seems a growing trend. First the Netherlands, now probably the UK. 2017, the year when Europe turned into Belgium.
Also, to note, the Europe Politico live blog (http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-election-live-blog/), whic matches what NJW said, there are 65 undeclared. It says 650, but I highly suspect that's a typo.The above figures are exit polls. Nobody should have declared the actual results, yet, although some may be very close to doing so (http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/declare-first-election-sunderland-newcastle-13154454), as I type this... (and retype it, with the tags correct, this time...)
edit: OH, 650 is total number of seats and I guess that number just didn't get updated.
Also, to note, the Europe Politico live blog (http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-election-live-blog/), whic matches what NJW said, there are 65 undeclared. It says 650, but I highly suspect that's a typo.The above figures are exit polls. Nobody should have declared the actual results, yet, although some may be very close to doing so (http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/declare-first-election-sunderland-newcastle-13154454), as I type this... (and retype it, with the tags correct, this time...)
edit: OH, 650 is total number of seats and I guess that number just didn't get updated.
Quote from: smjjames link=topic=164378.msg7479271#msg7479271
Also, Theresa May said that if Tories lose 6 or more seats, she'd resign, right now it looks like they'll lose over twice that.
Is there a source on that? I really want there to be a source on that.
The labour swing is less than the exit polls expected.
She hasn't been wrecked yet. As I said, there is such a thing as the Shy Tory Effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shy_Tory_Factor).
Presently the commentators are all "if the exit polls are right blah blah blah hung parliament oh my etc." so yeah, in a few hours, we can start talking about her failure in more solid words.
She hasn't been wrecked yet. As I said, there is such a thing as the Shy Tory Effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shy_Tory_Factor).
Presently the commentators are all "if the exit polls are right blah blah blah hung parliament oh my etc." so yeah, in a few hours, we can start talking about her failure in more solid words.
Still not brilliant even if she ekes out a majority: she called the election to increase her majority when she had a 25 points lead that she manage to evaporate.
The lib dems have ruled out coalitions as well.
so far 6 labour, 4 tory, all holds.
Paddypower has just shifted its odds in favour of corbyn as next PM - 10/11 compared to may's 5/4 and bojo's 7/1
I hope you get Boris Johnson as leader. Him and Trump can have a hair-off.
I notice Labour has a strong early lead in the count, do they have a large amount of "safe" working class seats or is this something unexpected?
I hope you get Boris Johnson as leader. Him and Trump can have a hair-off.
It would be pretty funny if Boris Johnson became the PM.
Two more SNP seats have both flipped Tory. inb4 the Conservative hold is caused by Scotland, of all places.
Some areas come in faster than others, only explaination that I have. Seems like the results are starting to come in faster as more of them complete the counts.Compact constituencies (inner cities, etc) have an advantage of distances that ballot boxes are retrieved from as well as maybe a higher concentration of willing workers to work the counts. They'd be generally urban working-class votes, however those end up expressed by party affiliation.
Labour wins Glasgow Northeast by 0.8%. GLASGOW.
Anybody seen Owlbread, or is he busy playing a funeral dirge on his bagpipes?
EDIT: Ipswitch? More like Flipswitch, amirite? (flips Tor to Lab).
.....I'm sorry.
All of a sudden, BBC replaces Lib Dem with Sinn Fein on their readout. Only thing though, I thought they chose not to represent in Westminister, which is their policy for some reason? Saw that in a tweet somewhere.Yes, Sinn Finn practices abstentionism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstentionism). They refuse to take their seats because they are a republican group and will not swear loyalty to the Queen, which is needed to take seats in the UK parliament.
Even so, it looks a bit nasty. Though I suppose for the second indyref it's more important to hold control of the Scottish Parliament. Maybe they could swing it as a coalition deal with Laor?
Ah, I see.Yeah, but in most of those constituencies, it was largely a 3-way race. No Tory has gotten 50%+ in Scotland so far.
It bothers me to the point of feeling betrayed that Scotland has elected more Tory MPs this year than they have in the last 20 years combined.
LibDem Leader Tim Farron holds on to his district by a margin of 1.5%. Talk about playing it down to the wire, man. Also, 4th place in his district goes to "Mr Fishfinger" with 309 votes.
Conservatives are now blowing the BBCs revised projection of their losses, their re-re-revised was losing 8 seats, they're now at -9 on BBC and -10 on The Guardian.I would totally vote for Buckethead (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckethead). Have you heard that guy play?LibDem Leader Tim Farron holds on to his district by a margin of 1.5%. Talk about playing it down to the wire, man. Also, 4th place in his district goes to "Mr Fishfinger" with 309 votes.
Theresa May had a "Lord Buckethead" in her district.
Conservatives are now blowing the BBCs revised projection of their losses, their re-re-revised was losing 8 seats, they're now at -9 on BBC and -10 on The Guardian.I would totally vote for Buckethead (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckethead). Have you heard that guy play?LibDem Leader Tim Farron holds on to his district by a margin of 1.5%. Talk about playing it down to the wire, man. Also, 4th place in his district goes to "Mr Fishfinger" with 309 votes.
Theresa May had a "Lord Buckethead" in her district.
LibDems take Caithness back from SNP (iirc, the isles were sort of a LibDem haven before the SNP's wave last time?).
ffs Scotland. I would've been alright with a swing to Laor, but why vote for the Tories?Split vote between Lab and SNP, perhaps.
A quick run-through of the Scottish conservative seats suggests this is the case, with only Berwickshire, Roxburgh & Selkirk breaking the pattern.ffs Scotland. I would've been alright with a swing to Laor, but why vote for the Tories?Split vote between Lab and SNP, perhaps.
Now....the majority of the remaining seats to be called are currently Tory seats
Breakdown of the remaining uncalled races:
93 Conservative
37 Labour
4 LibDem
11 SNP
The Tories are virtually guaranteed (possibly mathematically...haven't done the numbers) to be denied a majority in Parliament. Labour is virtually guaranteed to be denied a majority as well.Question is who will have the plurality.
Scratch that -- barring an utter collapse, the Tories will have the plurality. BUT -- if Labour can get everyone else on board with a coalition government (and hopefully the LibDems learned their lesson of the price of allying with Tories) then it's bye-bye May.
Not that buckethead, this Lord Buckethead (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Buckethead). He's kind of the British version of Vermin Supreme.
It did occur to me that the Laor politicians don't really like Corbyn so... maybe there's a chance enough of them will rebel and support the Tories, but that's also a risky prospect, seeing as that will very likely be looked upon as massive betrayal by the grass roots members.I get the impression that some Laor figures might be suddenly liking Corbyn all along after tonight is done.
In terms of actual representation, the whole absentationism thing Sinn Fein is doing seems really dumb because they're depriving their North Ireland consistuents of actual representation.You have to understand, Sinn Fein aren't just political radicals or independence voters, they're separatists. Separating from and not being represented in London is what their voters want.
In terms of actual representation, the whole absentationism thing Sinn Fein is doing seems really dumb because they're depriving their North Ireland consistuents of actual representation.Agents of the Shadow Broker. Possibly in league with Cerberus.
Also, what's with these various shadow secretaries and ministers that I keep reading about?
@reelya: you mean top left, lol.
@reelya: you mean top left, lol.
No, I know what I meant.
More Jórvík than Northumbria. Northumbria extended further north to Hadrian's Wall.Just noticed that there's a "Yorkshire Party" which advocates the creation of a Yorkshire Parliament, on par with the Welsh Assembly and Scottish Parliament. ???Kingdom of Norþumbria.
The Guardian is now displaying the outcome to show if a Tory-DUP coalition is possible.
Corbyn has called for May's resignation.
The unmitigated winners in all this? Liberal Democrats. Despite taking less share of the national vote than they did two years ago, they've nearly doubled their representation in Parliament. LibDems are back, baby! Still mostly a third nipple in British politics (as they were before), but they're back!Despite being minimally informed about British Politics, this makes me happy for some reason.
If that even ends up being possible. Tory+DUP will probably make it above 326, but I counted the remaining seats and there's enough in-play ones to deny it with a few to spare.On a scale of Switzerland to North Korea, exactly how much of a shitshow is this for the politics of the Anglophone Isle?
A decent Greece. This range of outcomes was a considered scenario since May announced the election and people were like "uh, May, just because we're ahead in the polls while the government is static doesn't mean an election will take our majority to a supermajority, please stop refusing to debate Corbyn", but it's still a pretty sharp uptick for Laor.If that even ends up being possible. Tory+DUP will probably make it above 326, but I counted the remaining seats and there's enough in-play ones to deny it with a few to spare.On a scale of Switzerland to North Korea, exactly how much of a shitshow is this for the politics of the Anglophone Isle?
Hmm...it's good, but not quite an unprecedented landslide. I might hold a poll on if Laor should get "b" or "u" back.I have a request that if they lose a letter, it's the R.
Judgement will be passed on the state of "Tory" once all seats are in.
I want to talk about how the Toys are faring in parliament.
Hmm...it's good, but not quite an unprecedented landslide. I might hold a poll on if Laor should get "b" or "u" back.U is the only choice, here. If you give them back the b they're just americans squatting in the UK.
I mean...Hmm...it's good, but not quite an unprecedented landslide. I might hold a poll on if Laor should get "b" or "u" back.U is the only choice, here. If you give them back the b they're just americans squatting in the UK.
Congrats UK on your election outcome. I hope we can now put this whole silly Brexitamathingie behind us and get back to business as usual thxIt's far from over. The Tories will still support Brexit and Laor now supports continuing Brexit. It is only the ravaged SNP, LibDem, and the one Green who stand against the tide that shall sweep Britain from Brussel's shores.
Hmm...it's good, but not quite an unprecedented landslide. I might hold a poll on if Laor should get "b" or "u" back.I have a request that if they lose a letter, it's the R.
Judgement will be passed on the state of "Tory" once all seats are in.
I want to talk about how the Toys are faring in parliament.
A mysterious man with the left side of his face burned off, arrives to deliver a box with a button inside. He tells you that, if the button is pushed, he will give you a tax free payment of $1 million in cash. However, some Tory MP you don't know will lose his seat. Do you still push it?If I push the button more times than there are Tory MPs, what happens?
Seems like most of England is named like a map for a shitty D&D campaign. :PNaw.. It's that even Tolkien couldn't out-Fantasy some of the actual Shire names, thus hamstringing the derivative works... ;)
More Jórvík than Northumbria. Northumbria extended further north to Hadrian's Wall.Also, as being "North of the Humber", it excludes significant parts of Yorkshire, including The Peoples Republic Of South Yorkshire (as previously ruled by King Arthur. Scargill, that is).
Arlene Foster, 46, is the leader of the staunchly pro-union and pro-Brexit party and declared it was a “good night for the Union”.
According to a DUP source anything is possible in Westminster talks except a coalition with Jeremy Corbyn.
The DUP has opposed the introduction of same sex marriage in Northern Ireland, as well as lifting the ban on abortion.
In their manifesto they said they supported the nuclear deterrent putting them at odds with Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn.
Clegg has fallen.F
This is one hell of a night.
A mysterious man with the left side of his face burned off, arrives to deliver a box with a button inside. He tells you that, if the button is pushed, he will give you a tax free payment of $1 million in cash. However, some Tory MP you don't know will lose his seat. Do you still push it?Gordon? Is that you?
Loud Whispers must be feeling pretty unhappy at the result, his favourite seemingly Thatcher-like persona just got wrecked, and wrecked pretty hard, given the expectations. Folded horribly on her campaign, very unlike the Iron Lady.I like Thatcher's decisive wartime leadership but that's about it, not least of all for her being one of the chief architects behind the UK's entry into the European Union, or the most significant proponent of neoliberalism the UK's seen besides Blair. Wouldn't say May's Thatcherite either, in policy they are opposites and in style they are opposites. The former is neoliberal, confrontational and famously the iron lady, the latter is conservative, elusive and famously camera-shy. I would've voted for Libdems this time round on the basis that they didn't want to regulate the internet if it were not for their pro-EU stance, especially given my local Tory MP being scarcely local. If I've cause to be unhappy, I've got little, but I do have cause to be anxious - naturally, this outcome opens up many possibilities which hither now were impossible, not least of which is the possibility of not leaving all of the EU.
Yeah, the best news for Corbyn is that his position as leader (and his brand of leftist) in now entrenched. I'm sure there were a lot of Laor MPs who would have like for Laor to take a beating everywhere except their constituency to habe an excuse to oust Corbyn.
Yeah, the best news for Corbyn is that his position as leader (and his brand of leftist) in now entrenched. I'm sure there were a lot of Laor MPs who would have like for Laor to take a beating everywhere except their constituency to habe an excuse to oust Corbyn.
Heh, up here in Scotland Labor was telling people to vote Conservative in more than a few constituencies.
Yeah, the best news for Corbyn is that his position as leader (and his brand of leftist) in now entrenched. I'm sure there were a lot of Laor MPs who would have like for Laor to take a beating everywhere except their constituency to habe an excuse to oust Corbyn.
Heh, up here in Scotland Labor was telling people to vote Conservative in more than a few constituencies.
Really? What was the logic? Screw the SNP to get some breathing room?
Seems like most of England is named like a map for a shitty D&D campaign. :PNaw.. It's that even Tolkien couldn't out-Fantasy some of the actual Shire names, thus hamstringing the derivative works... ;)
(Good morning, all.)
ETA:More Jórvík than Northumbria. Northumbria extended further north to Hadrian's Wall.Also, as being "North of the Humber", it excludes significant parts of Yorkshire, including The Peoples Republic Of South Yorkshire (as previously ruled by King Arthur. Scargill, that is).
But still, you don't see Cornwall or Essex or Norfolk calling for such a thing, and they were all proto-English kingdoms as well.
a Cornish nationalist, centre-left political party in Cornwall, United Kingdom. It primarily campaigns for devolution to Cornwall in the form of a Cornish Assembly, as well as social democracy and environmental protection.
Yeah, the best news for Corbyn is that his position as leader (and his brand of leftist) in now entrenched. I'm sure there were a lot of Laor MPs who would have like for Laor to take a beating everywhere except their constituency to habe an excuse to oust Corbyn.
He, Corbyn has been a MP forever now.
Yeah, but now he's in charge.
And I resent your spectre word choice.
I think scriver meant you spelt 'spectre' instead of 'specter'.
Continuing on my HYS adventure, I found another idiot. This time he was saying that the minimum voting age should be raised as the "Youth" don't know how to vote right.
I can't tell if he was joking or not.
So this minority government idea with DUP, will that mean that gay marriages are going to be banned in the UK (Cameron refused to cooperate with DUP because of that), abortion made illegal again, and will they retreat from Paris, like Trump did (DUP are notorious climate change deniers)? If that's the case, I suggest kicking the UK out of the EU before they can even say 'Brexit'. No negotiations, just kick and full boycot.Sheesh... I think (hope) the Tories will be too metrosexual/socially liberal to let DUP tosspots have their way on stuff like that... I mean, even with the DUP they have a 3-seat margin, so stuff like that probably wouldn't go through...
The DUP will probably just want more funding for Northern Ireland and an open border with the RoI after Brexit. The second demand could make the negotiations very difficult, especially when the Brexiters in her own party could rebel against a deal that allows free movement.
The bigger issue that I see is that the DUP are insanely toxic in Britain, with their hardline religious views and terrorist past.
You know LW was just kekking around when he talked of a EU blockade, right?
So this minority government idea with DUP, will that mean that gay marriages are going to be banned in the UK (Cameron refused to cooperate with DUP because of that), abortion made illegal again, and will they retreat from Paris, like Trump did (DUP are notorious climate change deniers)? If that's the case, I suggest kicking the UK out of the EU before they can even say 'Brexit'. No negotiations, just kick and full boycot.Yes please
Blockade or no, prices would take a hefty bump and a lot of families in Britain are already relying on foodbanks to survive. The effects on the poorest parts of society won't be pretty, especially with an anti-welfare party in charge.Would take a hefty bump from what? You bring up a good point and I think it's worthwhile to look at this further. Weaker sterling has increased food prices by 0.2% (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/01/10/food-prices-rise-inflation-returns-supermarkets/) thus far, which isn't all that noticeable, owing to how fiercely all our retailers compete with one another to keep prices down. Looking into this further Beeb suggests (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32413080) that the hundreds of thousands using food banks would not disappear with favourable fluctuations in the economy, largely owing to the long term trend of incomes for most people stagnating or declining while living costs increase:
Since 2007, the cost of food has gone up by 8% in real terms. Research conducted by Cambridge University shows that the price of healthy foods has gone up more in the last 10 years than unhealthy foods. Public Health England acknowledges that the price of food is an important part ofAlso from the report is that we don't really know why this is happening for millions because the gov isn't collecting data and seems to be avoiding collecting any data in order to justify inaction
why people eat as they do. In contrast, incomes have stagnated or even declined in value. The Government’s data show that disposable income for the poorest 20% of UK households has gone down every year since 2004. The 2013 Living Costs and Food Survey showed that the poorest 10% of households only spent an average of £46 on food and non-alcoholic drinks each week but that accounted for 15% of their household expenditure. In contrast, the richest 10% spent more than £80 but this amounted to less than 7% of their expenditure.
From the food foundation (http://foodfoundation.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/FoodInsecurityBriefing-May-2016-FINAL.pdf)
Strawpoll: Should Theresa May resign after her lacklustre win? (http://www.strawpoll.me/13149137/r)
In what is probably the equivalent of the whole of NYC flipping Republican, in a final sting, Labor has taken Kensington from the Tories (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/jun/09/election-2017-theresa-may-speaks-outside-downing-street-after-shock-result-hunh-parliament-live?page=with:block-593afee9e4b0be3ed1924c25#block-593afee9e4b0be3ed1924c25) by, get this, 20 votes.Muh voting doesn't matter ppl btfo
The analogy may not be a great (or accurate?) one, but it sounds like a hell of a sting since it's supposed to be a Tory stronghold.Not analogous to the whole NYC flipping Republican, given that NYC is like a whole London
Would take a hefty bump from what? You bring up a good point and I think it's worthwhile to look at this further. Weaker sterling has increased food prices by 0.2% (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/01/10/food-prices-rise-inflation-returns-supermarkets/) thus far, which isn't all that noticeable, owing to how fiercely all our retailers compete with one another to keep prices down. Looking into this further Beeb suggests (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32413080) that the hundreds of thousands using food banks would not disappear with favourable fluctuations in the economy, largely owing to the long term trend of incomes for most people stagnating or declining while living costs increase:QuoteSince 2007, the cost of food has gone up by 8% in real terms. Research conducted by Cambridge University shows that the price of healthy foods has gone up more in the last 10 years than unhealthy foods. Public Health England acknowledges that the price of food is an important part ofAlso from the report is that we don't really know why this is happening for millions because the gov isn't collecting data and seems to be avoiding collecting any data in order to justify inaction
why people eat as they do. In contrast, incomes have stagnated or even declined in value. The Government’s data show that disposable income for the poorest 20% of UK households has gone down every year since 2004. The 2013 Living Costs and Food Survey showed that the poorest 10% of households only spent an average of £46 on food and non-alcoholic drinks each week but that accounted for 15% of their household expenditure. In contrast, the richest 10% spent more than £80 but this amounted to less than 7% of their expenditure.
From the food foundation (http://foodfoundation.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/FoodInsecurityBriefing-May-2016-FINAL.pdf)
Also while the overall price for foods is not terribly noticeable, certain food produces that are not produced anywhere else in the world but European nations will no doubt increase in price, probably regardless of deals struck, since customs is customs and customs cost. French wine, cheese, Spanish tomatoes, pork and other stuff like Dutch beers. How much will they increase? I dunno
In what is probably the equivalent of the whole of NYC flipping Republican, in a final sting, Labor has taken Kensington from the Tories (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/jun/09/election-2017-theresa-may-speaks-outside-downing-street-after-shock-result-hunh-parliament-live?page=with:block-593afee9e4b0be3ed1924c25#block-593afee9e4b0be3ed1924c25) by, get this, 20 votes.Muh voting doesn't matter ppl btfoThe analogy may not be a great (or accurate?) one, but it sounds like a hell of a sting since it's supposed to be a Tory stronghold.Not analogous to the whole NYC flipping Republican, given that NYC is like a whole London
Not much of a sting given how Kensington voted 37,601 Remain to 17,138 Leave, and Kensington is in the heart of London full of rich liberals which do not a make a Tory stronghold
They really should get rid of TV licenses lol.Apropos of what? And then what do we do about our politically neutral* and ad-free BBC TV and radio, S4C (ads), World Service (now forced onto the licence fund), etc, etc, etc..
May apologised to the Tories who lost their seats.
I do wonder if those are the people a political leader should be apologising to after they screw the pooch...
Tariffs, customs and so on. Anything originating from or shipped through the EU would become more expensive.Assuming the UK raises tariffs against EU agricultural produce. What would occur next would be in the hands of British lawmakers regarding imports
25% of UK food consumed comes from the EU, and unless we get a trade deal, which is unlikely given the way the EU handles trade with other nations, basically being a 'Norway deal or our flat rate for non-members' situation, we'd fall back on WTO rules.We would decide what we set our tariff rates at though, the EU would have to impose a tax on agricultural produce to the UK in order to achieve the same and the result would be that European farmers would be unable to compete with British farmers in the British market
Now, since the UK and EU are members of the WTO, they have to give each other a special rate on import/export duty. It's apparently an average of 2% on non-agricultural products, and an average of 22% on agricultural ones. There is a lot of range in that though, with wine being just 14% and beef 59%. (Figures taken from https://www.ft.com/content/7f0c732c-93b8-11e6-a80e-bcd69f323a8b?mhq5j=e2)The EU exports more food to the UK than the UK exports to the EU, ergo any trade war would hurt French and Spanish farmers the most, assuming we made that choice to go tit for tat. Also assuming of course, that the EU wants to start a trade war, which is in odds with their wish for a free trade deal with the UK (http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-trade-britain-idUKKBN17T1HN). Increases of food prices across the board will not help them, yet even a drastic decrease in food prices would not rescue them, the precariat can only be helped by one of two things: A drastic increase in employment and wages, or reliable social security. With much of the EU's food and wine producers dependent upon UK consumers, it's clear to see why they want to help us here; we'd lose out in relative terms, they'd lose out in absolute terms, and their agricultural lobbyists have not been quiet about it. Meanwhile we'd be able to conduct our own trade deals with the rest of the world which is where the vast majority of all our trade in all industries is conducted meaning that in the centuries to come we will be able to choose for ourselves what is best for ourselves, good that you mention the WTO for on the WTO, we'd be sitting in for 1 seat, not 1/28th of a seat. It's rather embarrassing that Iceland and New Zealand have been able to better represent themselves than we have on the WTO, and it'll be rather nice to no longer be paying subsidies to unprofitable farmers through the Common Agricultural Policy. Hell, we'd even be able to start adopting technologies that improve farm efficiency like genetically modified crops
Obviously the exact rate will depend on the exact proportions of stuff we import, but we import mostly fruit/veg (£8.7 billion in 2014) and meat (£6 billion 2014), followed by beverages (£5.2 billion 2014). (https://www.theatlas.com/charts/S1vGKAcS)
Tariffs also hit in the opposite direction of course and will hurt food exports, 40% of which we normally sell to the EU. Lot of farmers and brewers will be hit hard by that as their normal export market looks elsewhere for suppliers.
This isn't going to cause some kind of price explosion, except maybe in regards to meat like beef and lamb. But it's going to cause an increase of food prices across the board, and that's the last thing people already struggling to pay their rent, their car insurance, their TV license and so on need. It'll be mostly irrelevant to anyone who's paid well and has a good house with a low rate mortgage, beyond giving them a reason to bitch about the price of steak, but they're not the people who need worried about, it's the single mothers on zero hours contracts, the people struggling to keep the heating on and feed their kids, the elderly living on state pensions and so on who'll suffer. There's tons of people struggling to stay above the poverty line, and for some of them it will only take a small rise in the cost of essentials to sink under it.
They really should get rid of TV licenses lol.Really should've done so already
Every prior MP for Kensington has been Conservative. 1974, 1988, 2010 and 2015. 2017 is the first non-Con to win. (It was abolished in 97 and reinstated in 2010.) There have been 9 prior elections, and the Cons have held it through all of them with just 4 MPs over the time period.Remain won 69% there m9
Conservatives seem to trend in the high 40s very low 50s for vote percentage there, with Labour usually in the 20-30% range.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensington_(UK_Parliament_constituency) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensington_(UK_Parliament_constituency))
EDIT: Fixing the link.
It being a Tory stronghold are The Guardians words, not mine.Your words or the guardians, I consider all equally valid regardless of who speaks them
Apropos of what? And then what do we do about our politically neutral* and ad-free BBC TV and radio, S4C (ads), World Service (now forced onto the licence fund), etc, etc, etc..BBC bias is not very easy to quantify since it's very plastic. For the most part they try very hard not to be biased
* - Stop laughing at the back, LW...
Plastic? Plastic bias? I'm sorry, but I'm not quite familiar with that phrase, would you mind explaining?Apropos of what? And then what do we do about our politically neutral* and ad-free BBC TV and radio, S4C (ads), World Service (now forced onto the licence fund), etc, etc, etc..BBC bias is not very easy to quantify since it's very plastic.
* - Stop laughing at the back, LW...
Saw our Dutch news channel interview British voters in Canterbury. It really stands out how every student interviewed say the Brexit referendum was a wake up call for them to not stay home and vote this time, and that their main reason for voting was that they don't want a Brexit.
Also saw May state that she's going to the queen and couldn't help but worry about her mental health. Kinda looks like she's heading into a manic episode.
Also how about a brexit referendum 2.0? Clearly people are not happy at the state of things. or are you going to use the you only get to vote once and that's supposedly representative for everything ever. seriously this whole election is basically a refutation of that idea.
We would decide what we set our tariff rates at though, the EU would have to impose a tax on agricultural produce to the UK in order to achieve the same and the result would be that European farmers would be unable to compete with British farmers in the British market
Moreover why is it unlikely? By "basically" treating this as a Norway or non-members situation, are we not willingly ignoring the rest of the world? Don't see anyone arguing that Mexico, Canada or Singapore must join the EU to enjoy mutual trade benefits with the EU, unless that is to say that our situation is unique because we are a European country and thus for political reasons the EU will never allow a European nation to enjoy less than antagonistic relations without membership of the EU. This is especially in light of the Canadian (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38979901) and Singaporian (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/16/boost-brexit-free-trade-deal-chances-landmark-eu-court-ruling/) precedents giving Brussels the power to give free trade deals to trading partners whether or not its constituent members like the terms or not.
The EU exports more food to the UK than the UK exports to the EU, ergo any trade war would hurt French and Spanish farmers the most, assuming we made that choice to go tit for tat. Also assuming of course, that the EU wants to start a trade war, which is in odds with their wish for a free trade deal with the UK (http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-trade-britain-idUKKBN17T1HN). Increases of food prices across the board will not help them, yet even a drastic decrease in food prices would not rescue them, the precariat can only be helped by one of two things: A drastic increase in employment and wages, or reliable social security. With much of the EU's food and wine producers dependent upon UK consumers, it's clear to see why they want to help us here; we'd lose out in relative terms, they'd lose out in absolute terms, and their agricultural lobbyists have not been quiet about it. Meanwhile we'd be able to conduct our own trade deals with the rest of the world which is where the vast majority of all our trade in all industries is conducted meaning that in the centuries to come we will be able to choose for ourselves what is best for ourselves, good that you mention the WTO for on the WTO, we'd be sitting in for 1 seat, not 1/28th of a seat. It's rather embarrassing that Iceland and New Zealand have been able to better represent themselves than we have on the WTO, and it'll be rather nice to no longer be paying subsidies to unprofitable farmers through the Common Agricultural Policy. Hell, we'd even be able to start adopting technologies that improve farm efficiency like genetically modified crops
So yeah I think the last bit is an issue that goes far deeper than food prices, it's the gap between the precariat and the working class, not even considering the gap between them and the elite class (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/389002/Elite-or-Precariat-Britain-now-has-seven-social-classes-so-which-do-you-fit-into)
Also how about a brexit referendum 2.0? Clearly people are not happy at the state of things. or are you going to use the you only get to vote once and that's supposedly representative for everything ever. seriously this whole election is basically a refutation of that idea.
A plastic bias isn't really a bias any more. Biases are by definition consistent.Plastic as in plasticity.Plastic? Plastic bias? I'm sorry, but I'm not quite familiar with that phrase, would you mind explaining?Apropos of what? And then what do we do about our politically neutral* and ad-free BBC TV and radio, S4C (ads), World Service (now forced onto the licence fund), etc, etc, etc..BBC bias is not very easy to quantify since it's very plastic.
* - Stop laughing at the back, LW...
I was just stating where I got the info from.No worries, just wanted to make sure it was clear I wasn't being hostile or anything
Plastic as in elastic plastic rather than plastic like lego plastic. The BBC having bias, that is to say if it ever spins narratives for ulterior motives whether through audiences, shows, radio or news, is rather difficult to quantify because which way it bends changes very frequently, at times subtly and owing to its organization, can even end up being contradictory at timesPlastic? Plastic bias? I'm sorry, but I'm not quite familiar with that phrase, would you mind explaining?Apropos of what? And then what do we do about our politically neutral* and ad-free BBC TV and radio, S4C (ads), World Service (now forced onto the licence fund), etc, etc, etc..BBC bias is not very easy to quantify since it's very plastic.
* - Stop laughing at the back, LW...
A plastic bias isn't really a bias any more. Biases are by definition consistent.Biases need not come with consistency, least of all when applied to an organization - an inclination towards a particular belief remains so whether or not that inclination is mutable
Someone really needs to change the title to the tragedy of Darth May.Alternatively, "Oh Snap" Election
Also how about a brexit referendum 2.0? Clearly people are not happy at the state of things. or are you going to use the you only get to vote once and that's supposedly representative for everything ever. seriously this whole election is basically a refutation of that idea.I dunno I'm pretty happy with how things turned out, though it seems most everyone is unhappy. Except Corbyn, he's done a good job lmao
Besides, Article 50 has already been invoked, and didn't the EU parliament/president (all seven of them)/comittee/whatever already say that once it's invoked, theres no going back? Or maybe it was a British poilitician that said that, I forget.
So, I've now seen several people wanting to raise the voting age because young people "Don't vote correctly"Probably just a British thing. The young were saying the old shouldn't be allowed to vote after Brexit, and there was the whole clusterfuck about the voting age for the Scotland referendum.
Christ almighty, I bet these morons think that they're protecting democracy by wanting to stop them voting without realising that they're basically wanting a dictatorship.
Heard from very good source who was there that Rupert Murdoch stormed out of The Times Election Party after seeing the Exit Poll
On Thursday, I glanced at a news-stand in a supermarket, as is my want. (Not that this want extends to buying a paper, I just like the opportunity to chuckle at the unashamed biases.) It was obvious The Sun was trying to be the one 'wot won it' again, with some scare-story about Corbyn, and then there was a local paper (for an area not actually local to where I was at the time, strangely...) with an actual full-page ad for the Tories.The Tories bought up a lot of front page local newspaper spots, the full-page ones were particularly controversial. Here was a good one:
Very incongruous. The nominal catchment area was something like 55% Labour, 20% UKIP, 15% Con in 2015 (with LibDem support evaporated from the middle-ground, and UKIP mostly eating at Lab's vote). This time round it saw 65% Lab, 25% Con, <10% UKIP. So, probably money down the drain.
May is going to struggle to pass anything at all with the current parliament. I think there a few civil liberties minded/technically literate Tories who could easily sink the internet bill.
I wonder how many of the problems/issues Theresa May had mirror that of Hillary Clintons loss? Obviously there are plenty of differences, starting with staff not seeing that perhaps the candidate was the problem, but there are parallels for sure...Eehh, if you stretch things really, really hard. Clinton's closer to corbyn than she is to may personality or campaign wise, from what I can tell, and not a particularly close match for either. From what I've been picking up it kinda' sounds like may was closer to romney or something in the Obama election(s), really though I also wouldn't even remotely put corbyn anywhere near obama, so... yeah.
Senior Tories allegedly ignore the country's need to focus on Brexit by urging Boris to challenge May's leadership (http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-the-papers-40236662).
Boris has Tweeted that this is all tripe.
The Tories will be wobblier if they don't remove May at this rate... with all the pressure on her to leave. Either way, she'll just sit tight and be told what to do from now on, I imagine... her career is finished, certainly.
So what you're telling me is, when this all collapses Corbyn will become head of a Laour supermajority and lead Britain into neo-Marxist glory.
James Callaghan in the 70s I think it was. Minority Labour government propped up by N. Irish votes, funnily enough. Resigned before a vote of no confidence, after refusing to fund a gas pipeline in N. Ireland.John Major led a minority government (supported by Irish unionists) towards the end of his administration due to losing so many MPs. That led to Blair.
Lead to Mrs. Thatcher.
May sacks her two advisers who thought austerity, regulation of the internet and the strategy of not campaigning was a good idea (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/10/theresa-may-top-advisers-quit-nick-timothy-fiona-hill-tory-recriminations-grow)
Tbh Machiavelli says a ruler is at fault for appointing bad advisers. Big red flag when they ignored cabinet ministers right there
Soooo... are those Advisors the ones who put that in May's head... Or is she firing them so people don't think those ideas were hers?Well, it was their idea, but leadership doesn't work like that. Leaders must choose their advisors, moreover once their advisors provide their leaders with their ideas - it is up to the leader to make the executive decision whether to follow that idea or not. Hence why if a civil servant or an advisor gives advice to a Prime Minister, it is ultimately the Prime Minister's responsibility when they choose to execute those ideas, or choose to not execute those ideas.
If there is one thing I don't like about politics it is scapegoating and plausible deniability.
Well, there's been more people blaming "The Youth" (seriously, I've not seen *this* much complaining about my generation before) for damn near everything, ranging from May having to make a deal with the DUP to inflation.
And I can't take it seriously at all knowing that this sort of thing has been going on for literally thousands of years.
No idea. It's the same groups that have been blaming "The youth" before, they just seem to have become more frenzied in their insistence that we're gonna be the downfall of the UK (and, funnily enough, they bitched about remainers overexaggerating the effects it would have)
That's not an old saying, that's a Churchill quote.No idea. It's the same groups that have been blaming "The youth" before, they just seem to have become more frenzied in their insistence that we're gonna be the downfall of the UK (and, funnily enough, they bitched about remainers overexaggerating the effects it would have)
As the old saying goes, "If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty, you have no brain."
Like a transition from naivety to reality and ultimately insanity.
That's not an old saying, that's a Churchill quote.No idea. It's the same groups that have been blaming "The youth" before, they just seem to have become more frenzied in their insistence that we're gonna be the downfall of the UK (and, funnily enough, they bitched about remainers overexaggerating the effects it would have)
As the old saying goes, "If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty, you have no brain."
Like a transition from naivety to reality and ultimately insanity.
An a completely related note, zombie Churchill challenges May for leadership, who wins?
The tower is managed by Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation (KCTMO), the largest tenant management organisation (TMO) in England, on behalf of Kensington & Chelsea Council.
In a July 2014 Grenfell Tower regeneration newsletter, the KCTMO instructed residents to stay in the flat in case of a fire:[20]
Emergency fire arrangements
Our longstanding 'stay put' policy stays in force until you are told otherwise. This means that (unless there is a fire in your flat or in the hallway outside your flat) you should stay inside your flat. This is because Grenfell was designed according to rigorous fire safety standards. Also, the new front doors for each flat can withstand a fire for up to 30 minutes, which gives plenty of time for the fire brigade to arrive.
The May 2016 newsletter had the same message, adding that it was on the advice of the Fire Brigade:[21]
The ‘stay put’ fire policy
The smoke detection systems have been upgraded and extended. The Fire Brigade has asked us to reinforce the message that, if there is a fire which is not inside your own home, you are generally safest to stay put in your home to begin with; the Fire Brigade will arrive very quickly if a fire is reported.
Mayor Khan said in a press conference that sadly the rescue teams have to assume that there aren't any survivors left in the building. Khan says it is likely going to take many weeks to reach and search all apartments in the building. Death tolls will most likely have to be estimated from occupancy lists and missing person reports.
Digging through a building of that size. Weeks easily. Months on the short end for the full investigation.
Digging through a building of that size. Weeks easily. Months on the short end for the full investigation.
Is it? i mean, there is 120 flats, and a human body isn't easy to hide. Getting a good number should be quite quick.
Ashes don't hide, they scatter and fall on your car's windscreen. Fire that big leaves just ashes and teeth. Well at least in those appartments that were in the full blaze, which looking at the videos, is most of the building.Digging through a building of that size. Weeks easily. Months on the short end for the full investigation.
and a human body isn't easy to hide.
You're a firefighter yourself sluissa?
What really struck my about May is her abscence in the media during the inferno. I watched for hours, saw Khan make a few speeches, but didn't see May anywhere expressing condoloances or grief.She did show up for photos, but apparently didn't speak to any survivors.
Theresa May has been given a very strong mandate to fuck off
Apparently, apart from the one we are (currently) due to get next week, there just isn't time to grow a new Queen's Peach next year.
(Really, it's just a reading out of the front page sheet of the agenda that the government sets out, and will still have to consider putting down in writing regardless of whether Brexit is happening. It isn't even legally binding. It's a wish-list and a run-through of vague and/or suspiciously-overly-specific 'promises', many of which don't survive contact with the enemy (opposition votes, world events, etc), and about the best thing about not having one is that it means Liz doesn't have to grit her teeth and get on with speaking a whole lot of tosh that she probably doesn't even believe, and likely doesn't even privately support.)
Honestly, if there's anything that's vaguely something about that election it's that for most of 'em, the winners have been crowed as losers and the losers as winners. I still don't really know what to think on that front. It's like... yes, your gains were great. But you lost. Yes, you lost tons, but you won. Yes, you're a minority government now and lost a lot of seats... but you're still the largest single political party on the island. I get the perspective but it's kinda' offputting, for whatever reason.I might see it that way if it was a scheduled election, but it wasn't. It was a cynical attempt to take advantage of the polls and shut out even the risk of dissent. They lost those 14 points for it, and it was what ought to have happened under the circumstances. It's not just about getting a majority, after all. The LibDems had no chance of winning a majority either, and it'd be pretty strange to try to portray it as not being a good night for them.
Honestly, if there's anything that's vaguely something about that election it's that for most of 'em, the winners have been crowed as losers and the losers as winners. I still don't really know what to think on that front. It's like... yes, your gains were great. But you lost. Yes, you lost tons, but you won. Yes, you're a minority government now and lost a lot of seats... but you're still the largest single political party on the island. I get the perspective but it's kinda' offputting, for whatever reason.Eh, it's about expectations vs reality, and the fact that if May hadn't called the election, she'd have been in a better position right now. This wasn't a *forced* election, she (or her party) just did it.
Owlbread! We've missed you so much. Never leave again!
Better?Owlbread! We've missed you so much. Never leaven again!
Dude. Too soon.
I think we better passover that one...Better?Owlbread! We've missed you so much. Never leaven again!
Dude. Too soon.
Would owl-bread be kosher...?
Then we can't eat the Scotsman.Would owl-bread be kosher...?
No. Birds of Prey are not Kosher.
Thats not stopping me.
Why not both?Thats not stopping me.
bad tempacc
forumgoers are friends, not food
Thats not stopping me.
bad tempacc
forumgoers are friends, not food
A selection of political cartoons (https://politicalscrapbook.net/2017/06/12-cartoons-that-perfectly-sum-up-the-tory-approach-to-brexit-negotiations/#more-64980) lampooning Theresa May/the Tories over recent happenings.One user-comment at the bottom of that, so far.
Alternatively, ayyyyy lmao.
I LIVED AND WORKED I EUROPE FOR 20 YEARS IN THE CEE I AM 69 YEARS OLD I AM THE FIRST GENERATION NOT TO GO TO WAR IN EUROPE MUCH TO THE DISMAY OF QUEEN VICTORIAS GRANDCHILDREN AND THE ARMS MANUFACTURES ‘:facepalm:
Honestly, if there's anything that's vaguely something about that election it's that for most of 'em, the winners have been crowed as losers and the losers as winners. I still don't really know what to think on that front. It's like... yes, your gains were great. But you lost. Yes, you lost tons, but you won. Yes, you're a minority government now and lost a lot of seats... but you're still the largest single political party on the island. I get the perspective but it's kinda' offputting, for whatever reason.Well yeah, but you gotta look at it like this: Labour lost and gained a useful defeat, the Tories won and gained a useless victory. Before the general election was called, Theresa May had the support of the majority of the country, furthermore managing to convince the majority of MPs who all wanted to remain that they must support leave in lieue of the result. Meanwhile Corbyn was dealing with a paralyzed labour which was still dealing with coup attempt #14057 with shadow cabinet members sharpening the guillotine for their expected defeat of Jeremy. Theresa then calls the general election, trying to push through a massive consolidation of state security powers right up to the regulation of the internet, actually manages to fracture the consolidated Tory party MPs back into their pre-2015 factions of pro-EU and anti-EU factions, while Corbyn emerged having consolidated the labour party and permanently put an end to the neverending coup attempts placed against him. And of course it led to the loss of the Tory majority, which despite having come concurrently as the Tories increasing their vote share, does not translate into dependable MPs without seats
I spot Trump's influence: "he UK's 2% Nato defence spending target will continue to be met"Unlikely
Hello everyone, I trust you are all well? I see we have had much good discussion of the election and its aftermath.Really happy to have you back OB. I think this year is a year for good mindful defeats... God knows, there's not a political party one can be pleased all that much by
Goddamn, the Nazis really just had the one response to every problem that they faced, didn't they?The more I hear about these Nazi fellows, the less I like them.
You think they were the baddies? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU)Goddamn, the Nazis really just had the one response to every problem that they faced, didn't they?The more I hear about these Nazi fellows, the less I like them.
Here comes MSH speaking inconvenient truth to power: Nazis Were BadGoddamn, the Nazis really just had the one response to every problem that they faced, didn't they?The more I hear about these Nazi fellows, the less I like them.
How the hell do you confuse bees with wasps at all? I'm no beekeeper, but I am pretty goddamn certain of the difference between a bee flying in my face and a wasp flying in my face.Oh nvm, they didn't kill 1,500. They killed 15,000 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-40416265). These bees aren't common ones either, these are Welsh black honeybees - they used to be British black honey bees before they went extinct. We only just rediscovered they weren't all extinct 5 years ago (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/apr/18/black-honeybees-rediscovered-in-britain), having been nearly wiped out by a disease/world war farming 100 years ago. So we have this honeybee that's just come out of extinction that is vital to British apiculture and pretty much now found only in Wales, and 15,000 of them just got wiped out by the local council for no reason. Those are genes lost forever
Google says hives generally come in the tens of thousands, though nothing on this specific species, so...at least it's not that bad?
Also, apparently this species of bee was wiped out in central Europe by the Nazis because they weren't satisfied with their honey output. Goddamn, the Nazis really just had the one response to every problem that they faced, didn't they?You should look up their efforts to recreate the auroch
"The ones we had to get rid of would just attack you any chance they could. They would try to kill anyone. I have worked with a range of different animals and they are far and away the most aggressive I have ever dealt with."Nazi leadership were huge fans of these (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/aurochs-how-hitler-goering-resurrected-extinct-species-make-nazi-super-cows-1482161), but didn't manage to make them big enough for their like
How the hell do you confuse bees with wasps at all? I'm no beekeeper, but I am pretty goddamn certain of the difference between a bee flying in my face and a wasp flying in my face.
I shall not be silent on the shores of my conviction, against any power high or low I shall speak without hesitation, in burning defiance of convention and banality that yes, MoralValue;Nazi set 0.Here comes MSH speaking inconvenient truth to power: Nazis Were BadGoddamn, the Nazis really just had the one response to every problem that they faced, didn't they?The more I hear about these Nazi fellows, the less I like them.
(ILY MSH I'm not being my usual dick ;3)
I was talking about the exterminators, unless these councilmen were going around themselves committing bug genocide.How the hell do you confuse bees with wasps at all? I'm no beekeeper, but I am pretty goddamn certain of the difference between a bee flying in my face and a wasp flying in my face.
You're talking about politicians here.
Those are genes lost forever.Laour, upon regaining majority, will increase council funding to buy the bees new jeans. We are committed to a new future for British bee jeans.
Imagine if a disease wiped out all American corn, and then some bloke finds out that the corn still exists in Missouri. Then the governor of Missouri sets all that corn on fire because he thought it was a field of kudzu vinesThat's impossible, corn is the most powerful lifeform of all time. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_corn_leaf_blight#Importance) A better example would be Indians dynamite fishing for coelacanth, that's an extinction double turn millions of years in the making. Fortunately, fossil fish taste terrible and don't fly around buzzing at people, so they're safe.
That's the bee version of this
You should look up their efforts to recreate the aurochWell, no fuckin wonder, they bread them out of Spanish fighting bulls! The Spanish have been trying to make the most violent killer bulls for how many centuries now? Those things probably leave the womb with a hateboner for humans, just like the crazy, suicidal Spaniards want them.
They basically crossbred the denchest cows to create a mightily muscled super cow. Slight problem: The cows would try to murder anything that got near them
So they had at least two responses:
Can it be made killier? If not, kill itQuote"The ones we had to get rid of would just attack you any chance they could. They would try to kill anyone. I have worked with a range of different animals and they are far and away the most aggressive I have ever dealt with."Nazi leadership were huge fans of these (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/aurochs-how-hitler-goering-resurrected-extinct-species-make-nazi-super-cows-1482161), but didn't manage to make them big enough for their like
I really love Spain, and Spanish people, food and culture. They deserve death camps for their bull fighting misery tradition though. Or well, maybe not death camps. They just deserve to be stabbed with ice picks in non-lethal places until they bleed to death. Bullfighting is dispicable.
EDIT: I am usually not for advocating violence, at all. I make an exception for people who slowly torture animals to death for fun and profit.
Speaking of British housing, during the ongoing investigation into the state of fire safety of 600 UK highrise appartments, 181 buildings have already been found to be unsafe, in 50 districts. The problem is more severe and wide-spread than it was assumed to be.
Because of the high number of safety failures already discovered, PM May has told the districts that they do not need to wait for the official inquiry to reach their buildings, instead they are encouraged to start their own investigations right away.
I really love Spain, and Spanish people, food and culture. They deserve death camps for their bull fighting misery tradition though. Or well, maybe not death camps. They just deserve to be stabbed with ice picks in non-lethal places until they bleed to death. Bullfighting is dispicable.It's really cute that you condemn a whole culture (or several cultures, rather) based on the actions of a minority (https://www.quora.com/What-do-the-Spanish-think-about-bullfighting). Might as well decry the Dutch as xenophobes because 13% of them actually voted for Geert Wilders no?
EDIT: I am usually not for advocating violence, at all. I make an exception for people who slowly torture animals to death for fun and profit.
Obviously, I do not condemn the whole culture, just the (small) majority of the Spanish, who keep voting against abolishing la torrera.
I mean, if it's a minority, as your link claims, then why does the popular vote keep it from being abolished repeatedly, and their congress even gave it protected status a few years ago?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/10353287/Spain-grants-bullfighting-protected-status.html
Speaking of British housing, during the ongoing investigation into the state of fire safety of 600 UK highrise appartments, 181 buildings have already been found to be unsafe, in 50 districts. The problem is more severe and wide-spread than it was assumed to be.
Because of the high number of safety failures already discovered, PM May has told the districts that they do not need to wait for the official inquiry to reach their buildings, instead they are encouraged to start their own investigations right away.
The topic of perpetuating negative stereotypes disgusts me far more than the casual genocide-advocating, which I didn't take seriously anyway. Not that I'm going to make a big ruckus about either for the recordYeah, how dare he imply that just because a majority of people voted to keep it, that's outrageous. You might as well say that Brits voted to leave the EU!
For something being done for a long time, you got three problems with getting rid of it.The topic of perpetuating negative stereotypes disgusts me far more than the casual genocide-advocating, which I didn't take seriously anyway. Not that I'm going to make a big ruckus about either for the recordYeah, how dare he imply that just because a majority of people voted to keep it, that's outrageous. You might as well say that Brits voted to leave the EU!
A majority of people did not vote to keep it. There has been no such thing as a referendum for bullfights, but polls consistentl1y show disapproval by 3/4 of the population. I'm having a hard time keeping ci il, you know. Quit spreading misinformation. The bullshit you're spreading has real c9nsequences for real people.The topic of perpetuating negative stereotypes disgusts me far more than the casual genocide-advocating, which I didn't take seriously anyway. Not that I'm going to make a big ruckus about either for the recordYeah, how dare he imply that just because a majority of people voted to keep it, that's outrageous. You might as well say that Brits voted to leave the EU!
Oh yeah and some amendment to keep the UK in the single market failed, which resulted in another split within the labour party as Corbyn was forced to remove Chuka's faction from the shadow cabinet. 3 weeks of unity in the labour party, gone again. But who cares about that when 1,500 rare Welsh honeybees just got exterminated by a local council who thought they were common wasps (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/anglesey-welsh-black-honeybees-13245428)
The peopleshit you're spreading has real consequences for real bulls.FTFY.
yeah I was just arguing in good faith that he was correctA majority of people did not vote to keep it. There has been no such thing as a referendum for bullfights, but polls consistentl1y show disapproval by 3/4 of the population. I'm having a hard time keeping ci il, you know. Quit spreading misinformation. The bullshit you're spreading has real c9nsequences for real people.The topic of perpetuating negative stereotypes disgusts me far more than the casual genocide-advocating, which I didn't take seriously anyway. Not that I'm going to make a big ruckus about either for the recordYeah, how dare he imply that just because a majority of people voted to keep it, that's outrageous. You might as well say that Brits voted to leave the EU!
It really tells you how stupidly overcentralized the UK is that the districts needs the approval of the central government to inspect the buildings they own.Well, I agree with your statement in spirit but just to clarify, local councils do not need the approval of Westminster to inspect their own buildings. Theresa May's telling them they shouldn't wait for the Westminster inquiry to reach their boroughs and counties before the local councils conduct their own investigations, rather they should conduct them immediately. They have the authority (more than that, they have the responsibility) to investigate their own area's problems. Also a minor semantic note, the UK does not organize local governance in districts, but rather in country, county and borough levels.
I bet it was a council full of English south Wales people, at that.Not likely considering you can't get more druidic (or north walesy) than Anglesey. Anglos weren't retarded this time
CymRAAAAAEEEEEEGGGG
Well, no fuckin wonder, they bread them out of Spanish fighting bulls! The Spanish have been trying to make the most violent killer bulls for how many centuries now? Those things probably leave the womb with a hateboner for humans, just like the crazy, suicidal Spaniards want them.Yeah but they were crossbred with these fuzzy gentle giants (https://www.wildernessscotland.com/blog/facts-highland-cows/)
It really tells you how stupidly overcentralized the UK is that the districts needs the approval of the central government to inspect the buildings they own.Well, I agree with your statement in spirit but just to clarify, local councils do not need the approval of Westminster to inspect their own buildings. Theresa May's telling them they shouldn't wait for the Westminster inquiry to reach their boroughs and counties before the local councils conduct their own investigations, rather they should conduct them immediately. They have the authority (more than that, they have the responsibility) to investigate their own area's problems. Also a minor semantic note, the UK does not organize local governance in districts, but rather in country, county and borough levels.
Also my borough learned lessons in a similar block fire in 2009 (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/24/southwark-council-admits-safety-failings-tower-block-lakanal-house-blaze) in their own inquiries, resulting in councilors arrested for negligence. A single stairway, flammable cladding, people told to remain indoors despite the building being compromised - these are the same things that condemned Lakanal and Grenfell, where it seems that the lack of a Westminster led inquiry into Lakanal meant no lessons were learnt from it. It's been rather grim in London, standing in silence teaching a school that was two pupils short from Grenfell, standing on London bridge where they'd installed anti-car barriers on the pavement remembering when I'd recommended my family go to borough market, one is made sombre by such times. Terrorism, fires and chaos, we are back in neo-1666
I bet it was a council full of English south Wales people, at that.Not likely considering you can't get more druidic (or north walesy) than Anglesey. Anglos weren't retarded this time
CymRAAAAAEEEEEEGGGG
Also definitive proof the councilors are plaid cymru (http://democracy.anglesey.gov.uk/mgMemberIndex.aspx?LLL=0)
y welsh nationalists exterminate welsh bee tho
If that's not correct then I apologise for taking information claimed in this thread as written/misunderstanding what was said.it's only a personal attack if you were intentionally bullshitting (my apologies for not including the word intentionally, I thought that was obvious but I can admit it probably wasn't)
But thanks for the personal attack, Chief Of Rudeness Descan
| Country | >Belgium | >Bulgaria | >Czech Republic | >… |
| Belgium> | / | €45b | €2b | … |
| Bulgaria> | €43b | / | €125b | … |
| Czech Republic> | €50b | €15b | / | … |
| … > | … | … | … | / |
I suppose this is the go-to thread atm for brexit.Its a bit of a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. they never really wanted it and they have no plan now that they are locked into it.
This MP says that Brexit may never happen due to party divisions (http://www.politico.eu/article/party-divisions-mean-brexit-may-never-happen-says-leading-lib-dem/). However, article 50 was invoked months ago and so, does he really mean a hard brexit? Seems like the guy is fooling himself because the proccess has already begun and it would be political suicide for Theresa May to suddenly turn around and cancel brexit, if it's possible to at this point.
they never really wanted it and they have no plan now that they are locked into it.The Cameron faction never wanted it, but fuck them the country and their backbenchers wanted it, and now their backbenchers are frontbenching xD
Article 50's enforcement provision states that if they don't complete negotiations in two years it just sort of happens, unless the European Council and Britain agree to extend it. Given the Oh Fuck that would occur from some of these treaties just vanishing, I wouldn't be surprised if that happened.Article 50 in perpetuity when?
So, 2019.
Of course, the EU has sovereign authority over itself, and it wouldn't be a violation of anything I can see if they just amended Article 50 to undo Brexit. And so all is uncertainty.
and it would be political suicide for Theresa May to suddenly turn around and cancel brexit, if it's possible to at this point.If May lasts until the actual end of the Article 50 period, it's just because nobody else wants/gets to be in charge when it's the easiest thing to just keep Theresa's political career on life-support over the bumpy patch to either do the driving over the cliff (for those that want to go base-jumping) or to get so close that enough people get vertigo and bail (for those who don't).
We don't have a plan, and that's a Great ThingTM! (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40571123)
We don't have a plan, and that's a Great ThingTM! (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40571123)You just described the entire US government for the last seven months.
We don't have a plan, and that's a Great ThingTM! (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40571123)You just described the entire US government for the last seven months.
We don't have a plan, and that's a Great ThingTM! (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40571123)You just described the entire US government for the last seven months.
"There is no plan for no deal because we are going to get a great deal," he replied.
They DO both have wispy hair...We don't have a plan, and that's a Great ThingTM! (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40571123)You just described the entire US government for the last seven months.Quote from: It could so easily be /either/ the Boris or the Donald"There is no plan for no deal because we are going to get a great deal," he replied.
Have they ever been in the same room together?
I stumbled into this today and I was immediately reminded of LW's scoffing at the LibDem wanting to stay in the Single Market. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xGt3QmRSZY) (It's a compilation of clips from Leave politicians, including Da Nigel, saying voting leave doesn't necessarily means leaving the single market).But that's not including are based Nige m8, notice how they splice him in between the lolbertarians faction but don't actually put any of his opinions on the single market (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAdT9RzXr2g). y u spin are chinless nige, why create the mythology of smily brexit metal merchant actually being pro-EU, it's still aggravating that after all this time Remain are still trying to argue that everyone who voted to leave the EU secretly want to stay in the EU :/
Ah, Boris.
No deal, no plan? No problem!
Alternatively,Spoiler (click to show/hide)
He might or might not love it, but he sure was saying that stuff like the Norway option is possible if Leave wins, aka, stay in the Single Market."We pay a membership fee. We have the free movement of people. We have a massive regulatory burden, and we're prohibited and stopped from making our own trade friendships with the rest of the world. Do not believe them when they tell you tonight that the single market is good for Britain. That we need to be a part of this club to access the single market. Every country in the world accesses the single market, and even in the worst case scenario that Britain does not have a successful renegotiation, and simply has to rely on WTO rules, even in that scenario, the cost of tariffs will be less than our net contributions."
But details as to how the scheme will work have yet to be finalised.I'm all for "thinking of the children" (and generally against thinking about them), but I just don't see any reasonable route to enforcing all porn-sources from worldwide servers to fully comply with this legislation in any way that doesn't include a Great British Whitelisting Firewall, to stop the obvious non-compliancy that will occur, and all the effort needed.
ROFL the picture in this: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-davis-brexit-no-notes-brexit-negotiations-a7845686.html Doesn't bode well for Brexit, does it? lol XDNot really concerned about no notes pictured, it's a non-story. Of course the Libdems believe negotiations are conducted on the size of papers you wield for photos, it's how they negotiated their way into a pit in the coalition government; to speak without notes, is an art a school child learns. There is a far more serious concern - that of the 2nd most powerful minister being at odds with May (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/27/philip-hammond-at-odds-with-david-davis-over-brexit-transition). It's particularly telling that the Independent do not play any video or provide any statement where he has clearly stated his objectives, rather they would seek to use a photo which speaks nothing to say that no objective is spoken. By contrast, Hammond is under fire for saying that train driving is so easy even a woman could do it (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/15/chancellor-philip-hammond-sexism-row-saying-driving-train-easy/) and public sector workers are overpaid (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/16/overpaid-public-sector-philip-hammond-chancellor).
You'd think that as they went into what are probbably going to be the most important set of negotiations in their careers they'd be able to pull the daggers out of each other's backs for five minutes.We are as Romans, arguing amongst ourselves even as enemies overcome our gates
In nine months, you'll have to prove you're over 18 to access porn sites in the UK. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40630582)
Of course, this is done in the name of "But think of the children!"
So... has anyone else been feeling increasing dread for the future of the internet in the UK? I mean, especially after Brexit. At least the EU has lots of protections for it, but our government is steadily going towards "The internet is dangerous. Let us tell you how to use it." it seems.
Honestly, the EU has a lot of bullshit happening that's anti-internet as well. There's that group that keeps pushing the "linking to sites = copyright infringement" as well as the "search engines can't publish snippets in their search results without paying royalties" people (may be the same people, not sure.) Was one of the silver linings of brexit that the UK could get out from under that sort of thing.. but they seem to be perfectly willing to screw themselves over... so meh.Aye, especially what with the whole arresting people over tweets critical of the gov thing. Last I checked, the two biggest Yuro nations pushing back against EU regulation of the internet were the UK and Sweden, with the caveat being that the UK's ministers were only opposed for commercial reasons
Freeze peach? Was that an intentional typo? lol XDNo
It's one of his memes. I'm sure there's some things that I say repeatedly that I think are cleverer than they actually are, too.Like fuck is this my meme, this is a piece of shit made by some American anti-American cancer who hate free speech
What are they going to do? Block Youtube, wholesale, because there's some mild T&A imagery getting through the safeguarding algorithms (at least temporarily)? Force Facebook and Twitter to implement business-unfriendly geographic blocking on anything with a hint of bare flesh? Is this where they try to get Instragram to "Clipper Chip" its traffic (worldwide!), because they couldn't get it done in the name of anti-terrorism? (I have a suspicion that it's related to Amber Rudd's other proposal, BTW...)Dangerously ignores how they could go after much smaller and less reputable sites. See Cameron talking about how tinfoil shitposters are just as dangerous as jihadis, it's all about shutting down critical mediums that are considerably harder to control. Shit like Facebook and Twitter they can influence with astroturfing, shadowbans, data analysis and individual profiling, but they can't control the free flow of anonymised shitposts and they can't market any targeted messages to anonymous individuals.
Like fuck is this my meme, this is a piece of shit made by some American anti-American cancer who hate free speechMy apologies, I was sure I'd seen you use it elsewhere, but maybe you were just being similarly ironic/perverse.
Dangerously ignores how they could go after much smaller and less reputable sites. […]Not intentionally ignored. Merely demonstrating how forcing somewhere longstanding like ASSTR, or one of the more... *ahem* ...'specialist' Chans, to "Comply! Or! Else!" might indeed mildly stifle the flow of depravity being placed dangerously within the unknowing and innocent grasp of the childers, but (along with ignoring the myriad other 'irresponsible babysitter' websites1, uncountable in number and mostly untrackable by algorithm) the ignoring of Big Content sites that are hosts or transparent portals to wide and broad categories of user-generated imagery/etc means that the flood goes relatively unabated.
Freeze peach? Was that an intentional typo? lol XDNoIt is a joke made to mock people who like free speechSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Theresa May thanked the public sector workers for their sacrifice in having a 1% pay cap.
There's something funny about that. Last I checked you can't really sacrifice yourself if someone else is sacrificing you against your will.
"Thank you for giving me your money!" "You're mugging me!" "No, you're GIVING the money to me."
I can't even identify most of that.
How to combat tax evasionCorporate tax evasion is a huge problem for the world trillions are being denied to governments and their people. I hate it with a passion.
1) tell your electorate you are going to crack down on tax evasion, get votes
2) instruct tax officers to go and hunt smalltime tax evaders (the welfare mom that got a 20 euro/week cleaning job), and make them pay huge fines
3) pat yourself on the back on tv for succesfully cracking down on tax evasion, just don't mention it was only welfare moms
4) use the fines tobribesubsidize the big companies that do the real tax evasion, so you can get a nice management position with them once your political term is over
5) profit
As a quick summary: In 2013 the Tories introduced a law that said that you had to pay £1,200 to bring a tribunal case against your employer, to cut down on "weak and malicious" claims. 4 years later, the supreme court basically told them to can it.
The two ideas I've seen towards this are that it was introduced with the stated intention, or that it was introduced to weaken worker's rights and benefit employers
How to combat tax evasionThat is the exact opposite of profit tbh
1) tell your electorate you are going to crack down on tax evasion, get votes
2) instruct tax officers to go and hunt smalltime tax evaders (the welfare mom that got a 20 euro/week cleaning job), and make them pay huge fines
3) pat yourself on the back on tv for succesfully cracking down on tax evasion, just don't mention it was only welfare moms
4) use the fines tobribesubsidize the big companies that do the real tax evasion, so you can get a nice management position with them once your political term is over
5) profit
I have a feeling the UK is going to get a... new tax soon.I have a feeling Canada is going to get a... new law soon.
probably won't happen, but I just wanted to say this here because in the 5% chance it actually occurs I want justification to laugh.
Laugh... or you know... cry because it is sad.
The major issue I can immediately see is that even if you WIN the case you are still out 1,200 Euros ONTOP of whatever legal fees you have accrued. It punishes workers for daring face their employers. If you lose the case but had every reason to sue, you are now paying a lot of money that you might not be able to afford.Oi m8 we use the Turkish Lira in the United Kingdom of New Australia
It would have made more sense as a deposit that can be confiscated should your case been seen as frivolous.Yeah, it serves as a real sword of damocles over the heads of employees who were unlawfully dismissed because they have to be sure they've got enough evidence to win before they take it to court. It was introduced by a
Or rather it hurts people with real legitimate claims... because those people might have an issue paying that much money.
I have a feeling Canada is going to get a... new law soon.
probably will happen, and I just wanted to say this because there is a 100% chance it will occur and I'll laugh anyways
Laugh... or you know... cry for muh canuck laws
Oh, all policy benefits someone.
Oh, all policy benefits someone.Britpol usually finds a way to make everyone disappointed
banter
banterHardly. It's a massive power grab by the government.
Invoking laws enacted by Henry VIII to get brexed on time makes me positively moist tbqhbanterHardly. It's a massive power grab by the government.
I haven't found a power grab thing yet but one bit of moist news that actually gives me hope that I won't have to keep adding 'for now' every time I say Scotland's a part of the UK is that the Dankirk withdrawal bill allows us to go beyond the EU's limits of devolution.
Wut? Given that "We're only officially a single country because we can't be arsed to split" Belgium is in the EU, I really wonder what kind of EU limit on devolution exists.The EU hasn't decreed anything against devolution far as I've heard at least, only that the EU's centralization runs contrary to UK policy on devolution
"because we can't be arsed to split"That's a strange way of saying you can't figure out if the Flemish should get the even- or the odd-numbered houses in Brussels.
"because we can't be arsed to split"That's a strange way of saying you can't figure out if the Flemish should get the even- or the odd-numbered houses in Brussels.
the cabinet ministers (the executive ministers of the ruling party)A set of unelected bureaucrats, by your standards, if you think about it...
"because we can't be arsed to split"That's a strange way of saying you can't figure out if the Flemish should get the even- or the odd-numbered houses in Brussels.
For those that don't get the joke: when my university split into French- and Flemish-speaking parts in the early 70's, the library had to be split. One university got the odd-numbered book, the other the even-numbered books.
Ministers =/= Bureaucratsthe cabinet ministers (the executive ministers of the ruling party)A set of unelected bureaucrats, by your standards, if you think about it...
Personally, I can't wait for the negotiations to prevent the automatic sever in 2019 to fail based on a single DUP vote from a fellow with the fire of imperialism in his eyes, followed by political and economic crisis as all connections between EU and UK citizens fall through in a single day and every member of the House of Lords sells off national assets to buy Qatari citizenship and escape the Fawkes Mask flash mobs.
The European Commission is effectively a cabinet, which everyone complains about. The President of the Commission is suggested by the European Council and agreed upon by the European Parliament, the rest of the members proposed by the Council Of The European Union. It is non-executive in powers, so nothing like the proposed super-government Westminster cabinet in terms of powers, not even the current "need to defer to parliament" cabinet executive, as they need the EP/etc to listen to them, not just ratify.Ministers =/= Bureaucratsthe cabinet ministers (the executive ministers of the ruling party)A set of unelected bureaucrats, by your standards, if you think about it...
The civil service are our equivalent of the unelected bureaucrat, with the civil service being neither appointed by nor elected by anyone, rather being employed on a professional basis to advise, administer or execute policy decided upon by executive branches of gov. The ministers are appointed, the members of parliament elected - though traditionally, the ministers are appointed from the house of commons (as a result, 28 of the 29 ministers including the PM are all elected members of parliament, the one minister who is not an elected MP is a Baroness of the House of Lords, who is the minister in charge of the formalities and organization of the House of Lords - her post is always held by a peer).
So by my standards they are not equivalent; different problems exist for rule by Ministers or rule by Bureaucrats
The European Commission is effectively a cabinet, which everyone complains about. The President of the Commission is suggested by the European Council and agreed upon by the European Parliament, the rest of the members proposed by the Council Of The European Union. It is non-executive in powers, so nothing like the proposed super-government Westminster cabinet in terms of powers, not even the current "need to defer to parliament" cabinet executive, as they need the EP/etc to listen to them, not just ratify.Lol thought you were rusin me for a sec there
The European Council is composed of the Heads Of States/Government, who vary by their way they attain that power but are mostly voted in by the democratic process that the entirety of their home state already uses. (Our HoG isn't, please note!)
The European Parliament is an elected body, as per the Westminster one, with a few (arguably better) small differences to the process.
The Council Of The European Union consists of one designated minister for every state, however so those ministers are put forward.
The European Court Of Justice is composed of one representative judge from each state, but I'm no expert on how every state stuffs its judiciary.
The European Central Bank is administrative, not legislative, and composed of term-limited individuals recommended for their financial expertise and integrity by the national governments, and is much derided but is pretty much nothing like as bad as painted and irrelevant here except for completeness.
As is the European Court Of Auditors, whose composition is dictated by the Council and function is not even remotely legislative.
So, which set of bureaucrats (that, where they count, aint even bureaucrats!) has any more undue relative power than this group of people we propose to give such power to in the UK.
The European CommissionFrom the Treaty Establishing a Constitution for Europe. AKA The Lisbon Treaty. (https://europa.eu/european-union/sites/europaeu/files/docs/body/treaty_establishing_a_constitution_for_europe_en.pdf) This fucking treaty was the EU Constitution and yet it was marketed as a series of amendments to existing Treaty, thus no nation in Europe was given a public vote on whether their country would surrender their sovereignty, with exception to Ireland (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7453560.stm) whom the EU forced to revote (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/dec/13/eu-ireland-lisbon-treaty) because they voted wrong. That shit is eye burningly haram.
1. The Commission shall promote the general interest of the Union and take appropriate initiatives to that end. It shall ensure the application of the Constitution, and measures adopted by the
institutions pursuant to the Constitution. It shall oversee the application of Union law under the control of the Court of Justice of the European Union. It shall execute the budget and manage
programmes. It shall exercise coordinating, executive and management functions, as laid down in the Constitution. With the exception of the common foreign and security policy, and other cases
provided for in the Constitution, it shall ensure the Union's external representation. It shall initiate the Union's annual and multiannual programming with a view to achieving interinstitutional
agreements.
The vote in favour of Juncker was passed by 26 to two after Cameron won the support of only one other EU country – Hungary.This bit always kills me
Juncker now becomes the European commission president designate. He can only formally assume office if he wins the support of a simple majority of MEPs.
The decisive support for Juncker after an unprecedented vote among EU leaders for a commission president marks a major setback for Cameron, who had thought key EU allies would oppose his nomination. But Angela Merkel, who had voiced doubts about Juncker, threw her support behind him after a domestic backlash when the German chancellor suggested last month that other candidates could be considered.
Before the vote Cameron told EU leaders they may live to regret the appointment, warning them of the grave consequences for public opinion in Britain.
In some of the strongest remarks by a British prime minister at an EU summit, Cameron condemned a "backroom deal" to appoint Juncker, who was being "railroaded" through against the wishes of Britain and Hungary.
Cameron, who warned of "wafer thin" British support for the EU, told EU leaders: "[Jean-Claude Juncker] is the ultimate Brussels insider who has been at the table for the last two decades of decisions. If you want change is that the type of person you want for the future?"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/27/david-cameron-loses-jean-claude-juncker-vote-eu
This group appointed only by convention from amongst elected persons. Persons elected to just one non-majority party, and chosen/made-do-with by a person whose sole practical majority is the 26,000 odd constituency voters (down from 29k!) that lets her represent Maidenhead, and only in power 'cos she was the last woman standing and now nobody from her own party has any mind to seize the poisoned challice from her unappointed lips... Yet!Now onto the Britgov argument!
Tell me that you had any hand in getting any of this potentially hyper-executive Cabinet into power.Tell me what is potentially hyper-executive about this Cabinet? The Cabinet has traditionally been the executive branch of government for the past 500 years, Tony Blair's Presidential years were anomalous, not the other way around.
At most, you might have voted for one of them, but (unless you're in Maidenhead, and even then) then that's just luck.At most? How about no m8. I even got peopled registered to vote, though it's gonna confuse you that I got labour voters registered lmao, needless to say your options are open when you can actively get involved in debates and walk to your MP (or even better, when your Councillors are doing the rounds around your neighbourhood).
Run the numbers, and you'll find that your voter influence in these matters is more insignificant than the multi-path authorisation that the average European has over the pan-European supranational institution that some of us seem not to like.Yeah nah my influence in the UK just got Brexit, my influence in the EU got nothing - there'd not even be any point voting for an MEP who didn't live in England or could propose any laws for my benefit. My MP is building my borough a bridge. There's not a commission bureaucrat that knows where my borough is on the maps, and I can't even vote one of my neighbours into the commission. MEPs? What'd even be the point.
(us included, although we Brits can't actually claim to have elected our Head Of Government, so maybe we should fix that first, before complaining about the Gnomes Of Zurich, etc.)I'm a Brit and I beg to differ, cos I'm only gone and done claimed we've elected our Head of Government lel.
The Cabinet Ministers form the executive (though not ultimate authority) and through their membership of the House of Commons, also have legislative powers. This is a power they do not hold exclusively against Parliament, but a power Parliament holds which they share in by being themselves members of Parliament.This is the point being made. The powers to do anything that "an Act of parliament would do" is being granted directly to Ministers, by this Act, including the possibility to make changes to the Act after the fact to overturn the simultaneous limitations. For example not being able to "a)impose or increase taxation, (b)make retrospective provision, (c)create a relevant criminal offence, (d)be made to implement the withdrawal agreement, (e)amend, repeal or revoke the Human Rights Act 1998 or any subordinate legislation made under it, or (f) amend or repeal the Northern Ireland Act 1998 (unless the regulations are made by virtue of paragraph 13(b) of Schedule 7 to this Act or are amending or repealing paragraph 38 of Schedule 3 to the Northern Ireland Act 1998 or any provision of that Act which modifies another enactment". This (and more, you can read the proposed Act yourself) is not entirely unprecidented, but greater minds than mine are worried about it.
This is the point being made. The powers to do anything that "an Act of parliament would do" is being granted directly to Ministers, by this Act, including the possibility to make changes to the Act after the fact to overturn the simultaneous limitations. For example not being able to "a)impose or increase taxation, (b)make retrospective provision, (c)create a relevant criminal offence, (d)be made to implement the withdrawal agreement, (e)amend, repeal or revoke the Human Rights Act 1998 or any subordinate legislation made under it, or (f) amend or repeal the Northern Ireland Act 1998 (unless the regulations are made by virtue of paragraph 13(b) of Schedule 7 to this Act or are amending or repealing paragraph 38 of Schedule 3 to the Northern Ireland Act 1998 or any provision of that Act which modifies another enactment". This (and more, you can read the proposed Act yourself) is not entirely unprecidented, but greater minds than mine are worried about it.
Scrutiny of regulations made by Minister of the Crown or devolved authority acting alone???
1
(1)A statutory instrument containing regulations under section 7 which contain provision falling within sub-paragraph (2) may not be made unless a draft of the instrument has been laid before, and approved by a resolution of, each House of Parliament.
(2)Provision falls within this sub-paragraph if it—
(a)establishes a public authority in the United Kingdom,
(b)provides for any function of an EU entity or public authority in a member State to be exercisable instead by a public authority in the United Kingdom established by regulations under section 7, 8 or 9 or Schedule 2,
(c)provides for any function of an EU entity or public authority in a member State of making an instrument of a legislative character to be exercisable instead by a public authority in the United Kingdom,
(d)imposes, or otherwise relates to, a fee in respect of a function exercisable by a public authority in the United Kingdom,
(e)creates, or widens the scope of, a criminal offence, or
(f)creates or amends a power to legislate.
(1)A statutory instrument containing regulations under section 9 which contain provision falling within sub-paragraph (2) may not be made unless a draft of the instrument has been laid before, and approved by a resolution of, each House of Parliament.
(2)Provision falls within this sub-paragraph if it—
(a)establishes a public authority in the United Kingdom,
(b)provides for any function of an EU entity or public authority in a member State to be exercisable instead by a public authority in the United Kingdom established by regulations under section 7, 8 or 9 or Schedule 2,
(c)provides for any function of an EU entity or public authority in a member State of making an instrument of a legislative character to be exercisable instead by a public authority in the United Kingdom,
(d)imposes, or otherwise relates to, a fee in respect of a function exercisable by a public authority in the United Kingdom,
(e)creates, or widens the scope of, a criminal offence,
(f)creates or amends a power to legislate, or
(g)amends this Act.
Scrutiny procedure in certain urgent casesBolded the relevant legalese
11
(1) Sub-paragraph (2) applies to—
(a)a statutory instrument to which paragraph 4(1), 5(1), 6(1) or 7(1) applies, or
(b)a statutory instrument to which paragraph 5(3), 6(3) or 7(3) applies which would not otherwise be made without a draft of the instrument being laid before, and approved by a resolution of, each House of Parliament.
(2)The instrument may be made without a draft of the instrument being laid before, and approved by a resolution of, each House of Parliament if it contains a declaration that the Minister of the Crown concerned is of the opinion that, by reason of urgency, it is necessary to make the regulations without a draft being so laid and approved.
(3)After an instrument is made in accordance with sub-paragraph (2), it must be laid before each House of Parliament.
(4)Regulations contained in an instrument made in accordance with sub-paragraph (2) cease to have effect at the end of the period of one month beginning with the day on which the instrument is made unless, during that period, the instrument is approved by a resolution of each House of Parliament.
(5)In calculating the period of one month, no account is to be taken of any time during which—
(a)Parliament is dissolved or prorogued, or
(b)either House of Parliament is adjourned for more than four days.
(6)If regulations cease to have effect as a result of sub-paragraph (4), that does not—
(a)affect the validity of anything previously done under the regulations, or
(b)prevent the making of new regulations
No single EU body has similar relative powerThe Commission has more
and though you might disagree with bits and pieces, you can't complain about the delegated will of the people one minute and insist that your ideology is the will of the people the next, especially when filtered through such a limited group with potentially no checks or balances.If they were not chosen by the people, nor elected by them, nor accountable to them, and sworn not to represent them, by what right are they the "delegated will of the people", least of all when they enact policy that is directly opposed by those people? On all accounts they fail to meet this definition you've awarded them. Secondly I do not understand your accusation. What is this ideology I claim embodies the will of the people? Do you maintain that there are no checks or balances after reading the evidence I have provided?
But please do persist with your Eurohate. It's a free country. Currently.Really Starver?
I... swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.(Or a secular variant, for those that wish it, that still mentions the monarch.)
Having been appointed as a Member of the European Commission by the European Council, following the vote of consent by the European Parliament, I solemnly undertake to respect the Treaties and the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union in the fulfilment of all my duties; to be completely independent in carrying out my responsibilities, in the general interest of the Union; in the performance of my tasks, neither to seek nor to take instructions from any Government or from any other institution, body, office or entity; to refrain from any action incompatible with my duties or the performance of my tasks.(Lacks the brevity, has more detail.)
I formally note the undertaking of each Member State to respect this principle and not to seek to influence Members of the Commission in the performance of their tasks.
I further undertake to respect, both during and after my term of office, the obligation arising therefrom, and in particular the duty to behave with integrity and discretion as regards the acceptance, after I have ceased to hold office, of certain appointments or benefits.
So the Sun tried to publish an article in German. (http://archive.is/S3AaP)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's probably an indictment of it being correct German; German to English translate doesn't result in proper english sentences, it results in weird sentences that almost make sense but you gotta think a bit before you go "Oh. I get it now."So the Sun tried to publish an article in German. (http://archive.is/S3AaP)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Running it through google translate has it 90% make sense.....
The goat is dead.This isn't the erdogan thread m8
Long live the goat.
I doubt Erdogan would have the British flag at half-mast for the death of a goat.The goat is dead.This isn't the erdogan thread m8
Long live the goat.
I doubt Erdogan would have the British flag at half-mast for the death of a goat.erdogan is patriarchy tbh
That problem with Britain society: not offer enough goats in dowry.
Just for those utterly confused, I was talking about this goatSo Invictus got to you, too.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-41415654
Florida is more than a place. It's a state of mind, gained through pagan ritualJust for those utterly confused, I was talking about this goatSo Invictus got to you, too.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-41415654
(I had initially thought that it was Government Of All Talents that had died. Though I knew it had already died, so was definitely confused.)What you on about, government is fine
Opposition parties have suggested that Mr Heaton-Harris was seeking to compile a list of "Brexit heretics" and called for him to be stripped of his role as a whip.Nothing can save us from this grim dark negotiation