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[Rockeater]

Houses of Light: ()
Etroan Water Purifier: (6) TricMagic, Stirk, Madman, Jilladilla, The Ensorceler
Etroan Fasion: (2) Stirk, Rockeater
Etroan Farming: (1) TricMagic
Craft Swords: (3) Madman, Jilladilla, The Ensorceler
Gemtipped Arrows: (0)

[TricMagic]

Sun Jewel Blade

One creation during ancient times was the Sun Jewel. Made by mixing crushed Sunseeds into lava, and casting it, the result was a black orb that shined like the sun in the light.

By messing with the amount though, at around 60% Sunseed, and 40% Obsidian. The result was something that almost seemed to breath. As it sat, steam would emit from it's surface. By taking this combination and casting it as a blade around a pre-made obsidian handle, a sword was created. Once polished and chipped, it could be used to cut down both trees and people with ease. As the blade entered a body of water, an eruption of steam would occur.

Latter times show this to be the Sunseeds effecting the liquid in the target, instantly turning it to a gaseous state. In this manner, striking into a tree would create an eruption along the line of the blade as it met the liquid stored within. Moreover, the blade itself was constantly warm and safe to touch normally. It was only in direct contact with liquid that steam erupted around it.

A modern scientific analysis shows that these Sun Jewels are created from the ground Sunseed acting as a type of crystal seed, with the lava adhering to it and taking on it's properties as it cools. Hence the observation of things made of it seeming to breathe. It's effects on water are very specific, turning a liquid state to a gaseous state. Strangely, it has no affect on frozen materials, unlike a pure Sunseed. The resulting Sun Jewel material showcases material strength like that of crystals like sapphires and emeralds(7.5-9 on the Mohs Scale depending on quality, with 7.5-8 being average), and can be said to move from being mineral-like to an actual mineral composition.

Houses of Light: ()
Etroan Water Purifier: (6) TricMagic, Stirk, Madman, Jilladilla, The Ensorceler
Etroan Fasion: (2) Stirk, Rockeater
Etroan Farming: ()
Craft Swords: (4) Madman, Jilladilla, The Ensorceler, TricMagic
Gemtipped Arrows: (0)
Sun Jewel Blade: ()

This item will help for steam engines later on, since it turns water to steam on it's own. Granted, it is the same as the water purifier tech, but in a different direction since it's a weapon. It's not like having multiple techs in the area will hurt though, and obsidian is still used today.

Though, I am fine with the current votes I suppose..


Next turn Design.

The Discovery of Moonseeds, and the creation of a Steam Paddleboat

Found on the shores of Tamin Orodruin were black stones. We went to create obsidian arrows out of them, only to discover the rock covered something else, a gem. But unlike other gems, frost immediately begin to cover it's surface on being exposed to air.

From breaking them, we found that they were the same Sunseeds we knew. But rather than heat, it drew heat into itself to fill it, making the surroundings colder.

These stones were used to keep ourselves cool for many years, but eventually, they became Sunseeds, shining as Sunseeds do. From this, it came to be known that Moonseeds, found encased by obsidian, were those who had given all their heat to the earth. And Religion spoke of them as God's Tears which created Tamin Orodruin.

Given enough use, Sunseeds become Moonseeds, and eventually become Sunseeds once more. However, it appears to take a decades for that to happen to Moonseeds, and Sunseeds have yet to show signs of becoming Moonseeds. This seems to be because Sunseeds give all their heat to the volcano, before becoming encased by their own cold as Moonseeds in solid rock.

Regardless, the discovery of Moonseeds led to the creation of the first steamship. Sunseeds turned water to steam, and Moonseeds turned steam back to water. Together, the steam turned a paddle connected to a gear, which in turn spun a larger shaft. And that shaft's paddles dipped into the water to push a boat forward. A simple and effective Steam Paddleboat. This tech eventually came to be utilized to create boats that could travel upstream, and in turn, gave rise to the first ocean ships. And those ships could travel far along the coastline, allowing us to spread our people to become a Kingdom.

[Twinwolf]

Etroan Water Purifier:
With advent of a near infinite source of boiling water, the ancient Etroans utilized this ability in a multitude of ways aside from keeping their houses warm. In addition to the many, many recipes for "Boiled Sheep", they have come up with an apparatus allowing stagnate or salt water into drinkable purified water. A vase, tub, or other water holding receptacle is placed under a series of leaves (later cloth) placed strategically to gather the steam emitting from the tub after the addition of a sunstone. The collected purified product is then led into a second tub which may be used for whatever purpose. Historians say this was likely discovered by a particularly clever blacksmith while quenching his metals. Aside from its main use, it is also used to this day to collect salt from the ocean in a desperate attempt to add some flavor to all the boiled food.

Difficulty: Easy
Rolls: 2 + 2 + 1 = 5 (Below Average)

Etroans started to boil water for drinking and cooking via sunseeds not too long after they started affixing the gems to their weaponry. The healers and shamans of the tribes, when they could acquire sunseeds, used them to boil water in specialized tubs and pots, and would both drink the water themselves and ask that others in the village did so. Scholars believe that the evidence indicates the practice was more ritualistic than it was health based, and as such wasn’t a practice followed by all Etroans. It was said that purging the water in the heat of the gods would make it holy and healing, and indeed, boiling the water killed any bacteria and parasites that might find their way into more stagnant drinking water. Overall it did improve the heath of the early Etroans, although it’s effects weren’t widespread due to the ritualistic nature of the practice

Macilmire, the Etroan Craft Swords
Etroan tribes, before uniting, were generally good at trading with one another. These trade connections strengthened the early tribes and bound them together, gradually merging their beliefs and cultures into the modern Etroa we know today. One tradition that was spread, quite rapidly, throughout the Etroan tribes was the practice of the "Craft Sword", the production of an extremely high-quality weapon to signify the end of an apprenticeship, or the acceptance of position of "master smith" and adoption of an apprentice. These swords are of a variety of types, mostly leaf-shaped and made of bronze. They are exceptionally well-made, decorated with all sorts of gems and inlays and, most importantly, Sunseeds. While for most peoples getting stabbed was bad, for Etroa's enemies getting stabbed could sometimes lead to small steam explosions in the stabbed area, a gruesome though mercifully quick way to die.

Difficulty: Hard
Rolls: 6 + 5 - 1 = 10 (Superior)

When an Etroan craftsman is skilled enough in their craft to take an apprentice of their own, they prove it. Potters, weavers, clothiers, all prove their ability to take an apprentice by presenting their master with a stellar piece of work of a specific type, a demonstration of their mastery of the craft. The tradition began with the smiths, who create intricate Macilimire Swords either for themselves or for great warriors of the tribe. Each weapon was unique, an expression of the smith’s skills and eccentricities.

The swords, called by some “sunshard swords”, are not dissimilar to the sunshard spear in function. While even without their special adornments they would be useful weapons in a chaotic melee, the use of sunseeds makes them a terrifying weapon. While slashes don’t often make long enough contact to make use of the heating effect of sunseeds, if the opponent is stabbed that can often be the end of a fight right there; even if the stab itself weren’t lethal, the heat of the sunseed will likely either end them outright or take them out of the battle. Macilimeres and similar weapons over the ages were favored by Etroan leaders for a long time in history.

---

The Classical Era:

In time, Etroa and the rest of the world grew. No longer a collection of squabbling tribes, but a nation based around the Etroan Caldera. The forge became central to a growing religious tradition, as did sunseeds; the craft of forging was a gift of the gods, and the Great Forge was considered a holy place (although of course, it was still in use - but now for the rulers of Etroa), and sunseeds were pieces of the forge god given to men as a gift for it’s favored creation. And as Etroan explorers ventured East into the mountains, they discovered the nation of Icona, who were awed by the craftsmanship and sunseeds of the Etroan cities. Trade was quickly established, giving Etroa access to more resources and spreading metalcraft.

But where there is prosperity, there is jealousy. The nation of Ofal rose from the coastal scrublands. They were nomads and wayfinders by nature, having landed in the scrublands and established a trading city long ago. But their new ruler had heard tell of the metalcraft and sunseeds, and was not satisfied with obtaining them through trade - instead he ordered his armies to take them by force. They marched through the forests and plains, rapidly taking the frontier villages and, through skill and force of arms, pushing to the edges of Etroa itself. To many, they seemed unstoppable.

This would not stand, and the craftsmen and thinkers of Etroa came together to think of a way to combat the threat. There will be one design prompt this turn. What military advancement helped turn the tide? Etroa would prove that Ofal was not an unstoppable force, driving them back to the sea, but what technology led them to do this?

Spoiler: Prelimary Proposals (click to show/hide)

Designs
Tamin Orodruin: The Tamin Orodruin caldera, while it’s status as the center of the world is debated, is the cradle of metalworking - it’s resources and the easy access to heat helped Etroans develop the trade early, and they have improved on it in the time since.

Sunshard Spears: Bronze spears tipped with sharpened sunseeds, a weapon combining two unique factors of Etroa. It causes heavy burns where it pierces - and while it cauterizes the wounds such that bleeding out isn’t a worry, the pain can often be incapacitating all the same.
   -Maclimire Craftswords: Before they can take an apprenticeship, an Etroan blacksmith must first craft a Maclimire to be recognized as a master. The swords are much like their cousins, the sunshard spears, in how they use sunseeds to turn already bad wounds into lethal stabs, although a bit better in close range.

Etroan Water Purifiers: Devices used in the ritualistic cleansing of water. Effective at making water safe to drink, although used primarily for ritual rather than day to day use.

Resources and Interactions
Sunseeds: Iridescent stones resembling opals, with fantastical properties focused around heat. When making contact with water, it rapidly heats up. Not much is known about it, but it surely has potential. This resource’s sphere is Heat.

[Stirk]

Sunscorched Earth Tactics: Ofal's mostly nomadic forces meant his logistic lines where essentially nonexistent. There was but one city and few farms to take resources from, forcing them to live off the land and their herds even during war time. Realizing this as a vulnerability, Etroans destroyed the lands of Olaf and Etroa alike. The shrubs where the enemy cattle gazed was put to the torch. Etroan villages about to be captured was put to the torch. Forests where burned, rivers where damed or rendered unusable with effective use of sunstone, not so much as a blade of grass was allowed to fall into enemy hands. Olaf was forced to retreat to greener pastures before it could claim a quarter of the country. Etroa pressed the advance on the now hungry Olafian troops, taking and eliminating the mostly open ground easily. A brief siege on their trading city ended when its supply of fish dwindled to nothingness, leaving a decisive victory for Etroa.

Aside from all the devastation in the war zone, of course.

[Doomblade187]

I am not a fan of the proposal.

Edit: Specifically, I don't want to do scorched Earth tactics in general.

[Stirk]

I am not a fan of the proposal.

Edit: Specifically, I don't want to do scorched Earth tactics in general.

If we go for the "Landship" tactics it will be kinda inevitable.

Just driving those things across the earth will probably scorch it :V. It would seem like the logical strategic decision, barring wonderweapons capable of turning the tide being already near completion by the time the invasion hits. Even with our industrial focus we arn't really to create, train the men in use of, and deploy sufficient wondereweaponsin time to stop the enemy that already has taken some of our villages without stalling tactics of some kind.

Steamy chariots!

Hero's Warcart: With the nomadic Ofal having an advantage when it comes to mobility, we had to come up with something that would allow us to close the gap. A merchant's cart was modified with wooden planks to protect those within from Ofal's famed archers, with small triangular holes carved in at regular intervals allowing our own men to release their own arrows or lash out with spears at any approaching enemy. A mobile fortress that will spell doom for the Ofal!

As horses would lead to an obvious week point in the armor design, aeolipile from the local shrines where brought out in an attempt to find an alternative means to move the cart. A bronze sphere with two opposite pointing nozzles was placed on each wheel. When a sunstone was dropped into the sphere, it would begin producing steam which would leave the nozzles at high velocities allowing them to spin in turn causing the wheel to turn. This allowed for self-propelled war machines, with notable design limitations (as the riders where unable to steer or even stop the cart, they had to be pulled by horses to the battlefield unless someone was willing to pump water in constantly, deployment limited to flat terrain, etc). Still, this creation was very capable of gaining ground against the invaders who's hit-and-run tactics now had limited success. It was even more capable of holding ground, forming walls at strategic positions or filling damaged portions of fortifications. It was one of the major factors allowing for an Etroan victory.

[Madman198237]

Saying we don't have time to deploy a new weapon in this war where we've been asked to describe the new weapon that we did in fact deploy to win the war seems....a little illogical?

It's doubtful that the Ofal have superior mobility just due to being nomadic. The cart is an absolutely HORRIBLE idea. It's unbalanced (as in, it might go in either direction randomly and is very likely to wreck), has no apparent reason for the water to not leak out of the very same places that the steam is coming out of (if I'm understanding it correctly; most other options I can think of that have a sphere with two holes drilled into it are physically impossible), it's short ranged and becomes useless after the water is expended; thus it does not provide the advantages of conventional chariots, which often are used to deliver a mobile force of heavy infantry to an enemy flank, and allowing them to quickly turn and withdraw if the fight stops going their way.

Did you EVEN CONSIDER adding a pair of handbrakes and water resupply for the system? Or at least figure out how to make the water NOT fall out immediately?

[Stirk]

Saying we don't have time to deploy a new weapon in this war where we've been asked to describe the new weapon that we did in fact deploy to win the war seems....a little illogical?

It's doubtful that the Ofal have superior mobility just due to being nomadic. The cart is an absolutely HORRIBLE idea. It's unbalanced (as in, it might go in either direction randomly and is very likely to wreck), has no apparent reason for the water to not leak out of the very same places that the steam is coming out of (if I'm understanding it correctly; most other options I can think of that have a sphere with two holes drilled into it are physically impossible), it's short ranged and becomes useless after the water is expended; thus it does not provide the advantages of conventional chariots, which often are used to deliver a mobile force of heavy infantry to an enemy flank, and allowing them to quickly turn and withdraw if the fight stops going their way.

Did you EVEN CONSIDER adding a pair of handbrakes and water resupply for the system? Or at least figure out how to make the water NOT fall out immediately?

We have enough freedom to randomly describe Ofal however we want. So I described them as having a bunch of mobility as Mongol types with a bunch of horsies. If you want to describe them as the nomads who decided to get into heavy infantry be my guest.

The nozzles are angled so it only goes one direction? Duh? There is no reason it would just go either way.



Umm do you have any idea what you're talking about? Shoot out the steam that way and it pushes you that way. It can and will only go one direction. It is really really simple.

It is also a real thing that I didn't just make up. Again see the above picture. It would have been available around the time and work exactly as I described (with the exception it would more realistically perform worse).

Put it in the center of the wheel and put the nozzles like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8gGuhj8NBY

The water is below the nozel hols so only steam gets out.

it's short ranged and becomes useless after the water is expended

If only I thought about and wrote that in my post?

which often are used to deliver a mobile force of heavy infantry to an enemy flank

It isn't doing that at all and is thus serving a completely different purpose than conventional chariots. If it were closer to anything, it would be a war wagon. Which was used by the Han against the Xiongnu nomads. Who used horse archers in a similar way I suggested the Ofal did for the exact reasons I mentioned using it.

Did you EVEN CONSIDER adding a pair of handbrakes and water resupply for the system? Or at least figure out how to make the water NOT fall out immediately?

See above. Water resupply would add weight and I'm already pushing the realism of this thing, I considered handbrakes but we have ancient Roman technology at best. What are you going to do? Put a stick in the wheel with the break?

[TricMagic]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ancient Gear Steamboat

One artifact made by a skilled craftsman was a water purifier that spun a chamber. Another, a gearbox powered by steam. As craftsmen did there utmost, they came up with many intricate items. However, with war, some artisans and craftsmen turned toward harnessing that power. The result was something rather strange.

Take an empty flat bowl twice, and attach two tubes that go at right angles. Attach two gears to the bottom of those bowls. And trough the center of those gears, two pipes which lead at right angles down to support the contraption. From there, attach a chamber, put a High-grade sunseed inside, pour water in, then tightly close the lid. With the two pipes being the only exit for the steam, they enter the circular chamber, and go out the two pipes outside. This spins the circular chamber, and in turn, spins the gears.

What is important about this is other gears, which are in turn spun. It's a proof of concept.


Now, it's size is increased. In this case, we have a boat. It has a hole in it on it's sides and cut out the back. and in the middle of that hol is an area for water to flow into the center of the ship. Here, metal is used with absidein, and many High Quailty Sunseeds attached at the bottom of the basin. As water flows in, it is evaporated into steam, which flows up thanks to the water flowing in blocking the other exit route.

This creates a steam chamber, and it is forced up through a pipe to the spinning chamber. It then flows out of four right angle pipes, causing that metal chamber to spin. As a result the gears also spin. And they in turn spin other gears. These gears connect to the back of the boat in an intricate assembly. And finally, they meet the end, where both are connected to a paddle. This spins the paddle, which hits the water, and brings the ship forward.

The boat is built on land, with the two chambers built by Blacksmiths and made of copper atop wood to seal it. Around this, the boat is built, with the keel connected to the bottom chamber, resting beneath it and supporting it. Deck beams are built to support the ship itself, and along cabin built around the upper chamber with open windows at the top. At this point, the gears are made, measured, and placed in their respective positions, and the boat placed in water. Finally, the paddle is put into position.

One note about the bottom chamber is that the entryway for water is covered by a raise-able cover. This is raised by a rope, and the entryway sealed to prevent steam from leaking. Note that the entryway has the rope going though it, as this allows the steam chambers to be activated and deactivated.

This ship will let us travel downriver and up at great speeds, without the need for the wind or manpower. Along with our ability to purify salt water into fresh, we shall take the fight to their coastal cities, raid their port ships with Sunshard weapons boiling them alive and setting fire to their ships. We shall break their industry and return them to hunter-gatherers before driving them off our lands. We shall give these pirates nowhere to go on the seas and rivers they use to raid us!

[Twinwolf]

The above design was directly veto'd. Ignore it.

[Madman198237]

If I'm not mistaken, the water is inside the sphere itself.

As horses would lead to an obvious week point in the armor design, aeolipile from the local shrines where brought out in an attempt to find an alternative means to move the cart. A bronze sphere with two opposite pointing nozzles was placed on each wheel. When a sunstone was dropped into the sphere, it would begin producing steam which would leave the nozzles at high velocities allowing them to spin in turn causing the wheel to turn.

This suggests to me that it's literally a sphere full of water with two holes in it. Angled so that the sphere spins in one direction. But there seems to be NOTHING stopping the water from leaking out---remember that as the sphere starts to spin up (And whenever one of the holes is below the level of the water) you're going to rapidly start losing water. And when you run out of water, the chariot goes from slow speed to no speed at all, which is completely undesirable for a chariot. We'd be better off just having our guys carry pavise-style shields; you'd get a similar amount of protection with sustained mobility.

And because it's losing water constantly, and in unpredictable amounts, you have no idea how long EITHER wheel will continue to spin, and you have no idea if either wheel is going to spin with the same power as the other wheel, meaning you'll turn unpredictably and not end up where you want to.

This allowed for self-propelled war machines, with notable design limitations (as the riders where unable to steer or even stop the cart, they had to be pulled by horses to the battlefield unless someone was willing to pump water in constantly, deployment limited to flat terrain, etc).

This isn't a war machine, it's a teenager's joyride cart that somebody mistakenly brought to a battlefield and now wishes to find a use for, despite it being a terrible idea.

Still, this creation was very capable of gaining ground against the invaders who's hit-and-run tactics now had limited success. It was even more capable of holding ground, forming walls at strategic positions or filling damaged portions of fortifications. It was one of the major factors allowing for an Etroan victory.

This isn't going to do a darn thing against hit-and-run tactics, actually, because you run forwards once, the enemy's lighter forces outrun you (even if they're just light infantry on foot they WILL outrun this unreliable "war" cart), then they come back and hit your barely-protected self really fast.

By the way, you DO realize that a chariot not pulled by multiple horses can't possibly be heavily constructed, right? This steam trick isn't going to produce *that* much thrust.

[TricMagic]

Spoiler: Ignore for now (click to show/hide)

Jewel Arms

While Sunseeds are prevalent, it is not the only gem to exist in the caldera. Rubies, emeralds, beryl, and sapphires, along with topaz and onyx. While in small quantities, they can be found.

Some craftsmen began to experiment with them. And one such discovery was in the use of Sunseed Powder, sand, and jewel dust. By melting these three together with the forge, and pouring it into a mold, something new begins to form. By adding a tiny bit of copper into the mix, a sword can be folded into being through hammers.

The result is something far stronger than anything we've made before. The sunseed powder acts to fuse different items together. The Jewel Dust used forms another jewel. And by using that bit of copper, it's possible to fold a sword that is made up of almost 100% Jewel. The use of sand is debated, but it seems that finer sand creates better results.(This is more modern knowledge, but sand contains silica. This is actually a base of Beryl, silicates.)

This sword doesn't actually show any of Sunseeds effects however, mostly due to it's heat being used to bring the jewels together for forging. However, the resulting process can easily forge into high-quality armor and arms, greatly increasing our military power. The only thing that can scratch these items are other jewels or obsidian. Copper has no chance of doing so, and arms made from them are exceedingly sharp as well, so long as the proper gems are used to sharpen the edges. The stone known as Sapphire works best, as the clear diamond is far too rare and can't be broken down.

Sunglass

Sunglass is a strange item which is made by melting down sand and adding Sunshard powder into the mix during the forging process. The heat of the Sunshard powder gathers the glass to itself, and through multiple treatments with steadily more Sunshard powder being added, the result is a material which shows material strength slightly less than Sunseeds themselves. (Which is about the strength of beryl for Sunseeds. So this is about the strength of Quartz, or 7 on the Mohs Scale). The material is quite hard, resistant to fracturing, and can be reforged from pieces of itself.

By making ingots of this material,  Sunglass ingots can then be forged into strong pieces of armor or weapons. They are far better than the copper we've been using up till now, but they can't really be replaced since the process permanently imbues the glass with the Sunseed Powder, tinting it's in shades ranging from red to yellow.

From here, we can create lightweight armor to protect the torso, and greaves for the legs and arms, as well as shoulder-pads . Likewise, we can use the new Sunglass in new Maclimire longswords and swords, along with using it with wood to create large shields.

Sunglass' only real weakness likely lies in it being too light for maces and axes, more suited to cutting and piercing weapons. But these are all minor problems in the face of such a strong material for defense and offense. And it's lightness will prove itself useful as well.

As a side note, one weapon that was thought up is something called a buster sword, which is effectively a huge slab of Sunglass with a metal center for the pole-handle. Lot of range and very sharp on it's cutting side, and big enough to serve a shield.

[Stirk]

If I'm not mistaken, the water is inside the spIf I'm not mistaken, the water is inside the sphere itself.here itself.

Correct. Like in the video I just showed you.

This suggests to me that it's literally a sphere full of water with two holes in it.

It isn't my fault you are unable to read or look up what "aeolipile" is and come to stupid conclusions.

But there seems to be NOTHING stopping the water from leaking out---remember that as the sphere starts to spin up (And whenever one of the holes is below the level of the water) you're going to rapidly start losing water.

It also isn't my fault you are unable to look at a video I just showed you with a spinning sphere that was perfectly capable of spinning without loosing water. If you are tired of being stupid and wrong you could just say "Huh you where right Stirk!", I'll accept your apology out of the kindness of my heart.

And when you run out of water, the chariot goes from slow speed to no speed at all, which is completely undesirable for a chariot

It isn't a conventional chariot. It is a war wagon. Again your illiteracy isn't my fault, nor is your apparent unwillingness to lick on sources. The downsides are intentional because
1. We are trying to make prototype steam engine in Roman times
2. Without any tech base to do anything fancy
3. We are apparently throwing this together as they are kicking down the door
4. And we autowin the fight against the nomads, so it can have reasonable flaws that won't actually matter in the end.

Given that more advanced steamships have been vetoed I'm already pushing it.

This isn't a war machine, it's a teenager's joyride cart that somebody mistakenly brought to a battlefield and now wishes to find a use for, despite it being a terrible idea.

You've been wrong and dumb this entire time, consistently ignoring what I said. So I'll just use this space to call you dumb again.

This isn't going to do a darn thing against hit-and-run tactics, actually, because you run forwards once, the enemy's lighter forces outrun you (even if they're just light infantry on foot they WILL outrun this unreliable "war" cart), then they come back and hit your barely-protected self really fast.

It reduces the power of the "hit" and makes enemy cavalry charges impossible, in addition to being able to create "circle the wagon" type mobile forts with well protected behinds. Like I said (repeatedly) war wagons were used in real life situations mirroring that which we are in. As said briefly in the source I went to the trouble of linking.

By the way, you DO realize that a chariot not pulled by multiple horses can't possibly be heavily constructed, right? This steam trick isn't going to produce *that* much thrust.

Yep. We're going to have to ignore this "steam power kinda sucks" thing if we are going to make steam power our main gimmick. Believe it or not steam can't run giant robots in real life either. We might as well start working on bypassing our limitations.

Now are you going to actually read and refute anything I actually said this time, or just repeat your idiotic complaints for a third time?

[TricMagic]

Moonseeds and Obsidian Shatterrocks

Many sought to use the divine power stored in the Sunseeds, and much was tried, somewhat haphazardly. However, one person, a hermit from the Mountain peaks, buried Sunseeds in Ice. After a month, they turned a cool blue. Once removed, it was discovered that these seeds froze water and liquids on contact, spreading their chill in the process.

This was determined to be the seeds soaking up the heat of other objects around them once water/liquid was applied.

Meanwhile, a certain madman created the first catapult, and successfully made use of it by hurling stones.

The two together however, gave rise to the creation of a new ammo type.

First, Moonseeds were bound and had their bottom half dipped in lava. They robbed the lava of it's heat as they were pulled out, creating an obsidian shell. This in turn was repeated until large buckets could be created to haul the lava out safely.

Lava was poured over a rock, with the Moonseeds inset into the rock. The Moonseeds quickly robbed the lavaflow of it's heat on contact, causing it to harden. Then, once the rock had been covered, the seeds were cracked from their obsidian tomb, and the process repeated until the rock was 1 meter of rock core, and four of obsidian shell. The Moonseeds were removed, and lava poured in the holes as Moonshard spears were used to harden the lava. Once cooled, the Obsidian Shatterrock was complete. On contact with the earth, it would shatter, sending razorsharp obsidian fragments flying through bodies and armor alike. And thanks to the methods used, the fragments were extremely pointy due to taking on the aspects of frost upon the earth, crystalline.

Incidentally, it was found that eventually, Moonseeds used in this process turned back to Sunseeeds after enough dunking, which caused a few issues. However, Moonseeds that weren't dunked in lava for long periods of time have shown no signs of turning back, and has made ice commercially available to everyone.

[Madman198237]

And when you run out of water, the chariot goes from slow speed to no speed at all, which is completely undesirable for a chariot

It isn't a conventional chariot. It is a war wagon. Again your illiteracy isn't my fault, nor is your apparent unwillingness to lick on sources. The downsides are intentional because
1. We are trying to make prototype steam engine in Roman times
2. Without any tech base to do anything fancy
3. We are apparently throwing this together as they are kicking down the door
4. And we autowin the fight against the nomads, so it can have reasonable flaws that won't actually matter in the end.

Given that more advanced steamships have been vetoed I'm already pushing it.

Chariot, war wagon, similar enough that I'm sure you'll excuse the terminology out of the kindness of your heart. Ancient era was known mostly for its chariots, after all. The downsides outnumber the possible upsides so far that I can't imagine trying to use it in warfare intentionally.

This isn't a war machine, it's a teenager's joyride cart that somebody mistakenly brought to a battlefield and now wishes to find a use for, despite it being a terrible idea.

You've been wrong and dumb this entire time, consistently ignoring what I said. So I'll just use this space to call you dumb again.

Just saying that I've been wrong in other places does not, in fact, allow you to brush off my comments and claim that you are right. Not to mention it being somewhat outside the spirit of arms races to insult people.

This isn't going to do a darn thing against hit-and-run tactics, actually, because you run forwards once, the enemy's lighter forces outrun you (even if they're just light infantry on foot they WILL outrun this unreliable "war" cart), then they come back and hit your barely-protected self really fast.

It reduces the power of the "hit" and makes enemy cavalry charges impossible, in addition to being able to create "circle the wagon" type mobile forts with well protected behinds. Like I said (repeatedly) war wagons were used in real life situations mirroring that which we are in. As said briefly in the source I went to the trouble of linking.

War wagons were used, sometimes, but they could also be moved reliably, without turning uncontrollably due to differences in propulsion between the aeolipiles. You can't "circle the wagons" if your wagons run out of fuel and then must be moved by hand, ESPECIALLY if you expect to be fighting a more mobile, mounted foe, who will be able to reach you before you can circle them. Or, if you circle them up far enough way, just ignore it and go around the now-immobile "fort".

By the way, you DO realize that a chariot not pulled by multiple horses can't possibly be heavily constructed, right? This steam trick isn't going to produce *that* much thrust.

Yep. We're going to have to ignore this "steam power kinda sucks" thing if we are going to make steam power our main gimmick. Believe it or not steam can't run giant robots in real life either. We might as well start working on bypassing our limitations.

Now are you going to actually read and refute anything I actually said this time, or just repeat your idiotic complaints for a third time?

We can ignore that steam power is too weak but it's much harder to go from "super weak" to "lol we just roll up the ancient equivalent of an APC" than is worth doing for a gimmick that is barely functional as a weapon of war.