Post by: Mephansteras on September 18, 2017, 10:34:54 am
The news draws a large crowd to the center of town where the aged High Priest stands before the great Temple of Light. "A great crisis has befallen our town, a crisis that was warned of in prophecy long ago. We were unable to prevent it, but at least our forefathers gave us the tools to save ourselves from this horror."
"There are those of us in this town who are descended from heroes. Strong bloodlines that stood up to evil in ages past. And these bloodlines have the power locked inside them to figure who and what is visiting this horror upon us." He pulls out a scroll. "I call before me the following names...
Players:
- hector13 - Town Dreamwalker
- TheDarkStar - Cult Fortune Teller
Teneb- Town Sage- Reverie - Cult Wizard
AbstractTraitorHero- Town TemplarShakerag- Ghoul- Tiruin - Town Sorcerer
BlackHeartKabal- Deviljuicebox- Town Witch
Replacement List:
Persus13
Sorry about the long delay, folks. But it is time for another Supernatual Mafia! I'm looking for a minimum of 9 players for this, but we can easily take more than that.
In order to make this a bit more new player friendly I will not be adding any new roles or changing any of the existing roles this time. So you can read over the previous games to learn what might be out there and what they can do.
Previous games:
Supernatural 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59269.msg1328001#msg1328001)
Supernatural 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62587.msg1436015#msg1436015)
Supernatural 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=74938.msg1875341#msg1875341)
Supernatural 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=89665.msg2473824#msg2473824)
Supernatural 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=106608.msg3165006#msg3165006)
Supernatural 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131512.msg4638437#msg4638437)
Supernatural 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139118.msg5338667#msg5338667)
Supernatural 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=150876.msg6242119#msg6242119)
Supernatural RP (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=78693.msg2036065#msg2036065)
Supernatural Semi-Bastard (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=115529.msg3563365#msg3563365)
Post by: Mephansteras on September 18, 2017, 10:35:38 am
Roles: The basic information about available town roles will be known. However, I will only give a general description of each role that will give an indication of what the role can do. More specific information will be given in role PMs as necessary. This means you will not know the specific rules of many of the roles, even if you know what they do. There may also be variations on the town roles, both within a game and between games.
Scum and 3rd party role information is not going to be posted in the thread.
All players are Town Aligned unless noted otherwise in their Role PM.
Quoting the Mod without permission results in a Modkill and a ban from the next game I run.
PMs are not allowed unless your Role specifically allows it.
Days will go for 72 hours (Ignoring weekends) or until everyone has voted (if there is a long period of inactivity after everyone votes I'll end the day to keep things moving).
In the event of a tie, no lynch will occur.
Night will go for 24 hours, though that's somewhat flexible. If you do not have your action in within the 24 hours you run the risk of losing your action for the night, though. If you choose not to use your action, please send that instead of just waiting for me to get on with the night without you.
Extensions: Extensions require at least 25% of the living players requesting an extension. Votes against the extension will reduce the counted number requesting (so, of 8 players if 3 vote for an extension and one votes against it it's still 2 for, which is 25%, which grants the extension.)
Extensions will extend the day by 24 hours. No more then two extensions will be granted on any given game day.
Shortens: Shortening the day has a larger impact than Extensions, so it requires 75% of the living players requesting it to succeed. If the Game is Shortened it will end as soon as I do the tally with 75%+ players voting for it. It is possible that I will end all voting for the day but need a bit to do the final write-up, in which case further votes will not be counted that day.
All votes should be colored red to make it easy for me to spot them.
In the event of a tie, a No-Lynch will occur.
Speaking While Dead: The dead may post once after they have died to comment on their death. They may not provide any information about the game in this post. After this, any posting in the game before it has ended will result in a one game ban from future games. Repeated abuse, or posts that have a major impact on the game, can result in a permaban from any future games.
Scum, Coven Witches, and some third parties will have special chat areas on http://www.quicktopic.com. I will PM the appropriate link to you at the start of the game or when you die.
There is no Dead Chat for this game, since coming back from the dead is possible.
Event Order: The order of events is generally as follows:
Misdirection
Role-blocking
Protection
Investigations
Night Kills/Conversions
Disturbing the Dead (there is an order for this, if two people target the same corpse, but that's kept hidden)
All kills will be effectively simultaneous. (I may make some literary liberties with this in the PMs, though)
Also, not all roles require the player to leave the house. Generally, magic sounding roles are going to work like Psychic roles in Paranormal. If your role does not require you to leave your house to use, you will be informed of this fact. Roles who don't leave their house cannot be role-blocked by the Guard, though he still protects them.
Potential Town Roles
- Knight - a well trained, armed, and armored warrior. The Knight is too skilled to be easily slain by an attacker.
- Guard - the Guard can lock someone in their house and stand guard through the night. This keeps them in, and others out. At least as long as the guard is around.
- Mystic - Mystics can pierce the veil of reality to discover hidden truths. Seer, Oracles, and Fortune Tellers are all varieties of Mystic.
- Thief - A wanderer of the night. Thieves often spot what others are up to.
- Sorcerer - A powerful mage, the sorcerer likes to keep to himself and has the power to enforce his seclusion.
- Wizard - A powerful mage, the Wizard can use his powers to help keep others safe.
- Warlock - A mage who seeks knowledge from the shades of the dead
- Illusionist - A mage whose mastery of light and shadow can use misdirection to help or harm.
- Dreamwalker - An individual whose dreams may in fact be a reflection of reality
- Priest - An individual dedicated to the gods. How well they serve the gods depends on just how dedicated they actually are.
- Sexton - Charged with caring for the graveyard, he has much to do lately.
- Sage - A learned individual, who can use this knowledge to piece together the clues and discover the truth of the recent events
- Monster Hunter - A powerful warrior, trained to hunt down and kill the monsters that roam the world. May specialize in specific types.
- Witch - Secretive folk who practice forbidden, ancient rites. They hold few secrets from one another
- Werebear - Cursed or blessed, it is hard to say, but these people have great power within them. Beware their fury when provoked.
- Exorcist - Holy men and women trained in holy magics to battle the evils of the Underworld.
Post by: hector13 on September 18, 2017, 12:50:03 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on September 18, 2017, 12:52:49 pm
Post by: Teneb on September 18, 2017, 01:03:55 pm
Post by: Reverie on September 18, 2017, 05:21:19 pm
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on September 18, 2017, 08:41:19 pm
Post by: Shakerag on September 19, 2017, 08:54:09 am
Post by: Tiruin on September 19, 2017, 09:38:30 am
I mean- In!
Currently having internet issues. Will probably be able to post in the next few days.
Post by: hector13 on September 19, 2017, 01:22:12 pm
Insufferable asshole reporting for duty.
You're not insufferable.
Post by: Shakerag on September 19, 2017, 03:39:36 pm
Then I'm clearly not trying hard enough >_>Insufferable asshole reporting for duty.
You're not insufferable.
Post by: BlackHeartKabal on September 19, 2017, 03:53:13 pm
Post by: Persus13 on September 19, 2017, 06:30:48 pm
Post by: juicebox on September 19, 2017, 11:08:22 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on September 20, 2017, 09:26:20 am
Post by: Reverie on September 20, 2017, 10:07:35 am
Post by: TheDarkStar on September 26, 2017, 02:31:12 am
Post by: Mephansteras on September 26, 2017, 09:34:18 am
Post by: Mephansteras on September 27, 2017, 03:16:14 pm
“As declared by the ancient laws, this assembly must be held in open air where all may hear what is said between you.” intones the High Priest. “Please take your seats”.
You do, after a small bit of confusion about who gets to sit where.
“Now, the ancient laws are very clear about this. Each day you will assemble and speak, using the power that flows through your veins to suss out those responsible for this foul crime. When you have reached a decision on one who you think is guilty the Executioner shall remove their head. Choose wisely and well, for it is all our fates, not just yours, that are being decided here.”
“This assembly will not end until all have perished or the threat is eliminated. The Great Light have mercy upon us all.”
Day 1 will end ~5pm Pacific Friday
Post by: Shakerag on September 27, 2017, 06:56:01 pm
TheDarkStar: What is your experience with Supernatural games?
Teneb: What role would you want to have if you could choose?
Reverie: If you received a list of roles in the game (but not who has them) which role would worry you the most?
AbstractTraitorHero: I haven't looked at my PM yet. What does that tell you?
Tiruin: Are you going to stab me in the back this game?
BlackHeartKabal: What subtle thing catches your eye on D1?
juicebox: Pro town-gambit or not?
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on September 27, 2017, 07:04:42 pm
hector13: Is drunkposting a town or a neutral tell to you?That you are not very intelligent and are wasting my time with a pointless question.
TheDarkStar: What is your experience with Supernatural games?
Teneb: What role would you want to have if you could choose?
Reverie: If you received a list of roles in the game (but not who has them) which role would worry you the most?
AbstractTraitorHero: I haven't looked at my PM yet. What does that tell you?
Tiruin: Are you going to stab me in the back this game?
BlackHeartKabal: What subtle thing catches your eye on D1?
juicebox: Pro town-gambit or not?
Now let me raise you a question. Why did you in fact not read your pm?
Post by: Shakerag on September 27, 2017, 07:08:39 pm
Ouch, let me get some aloe for that sick burn you just laid down.AbstractTraitorHero: I haven't looked at my PM yet. What does that tell you?That you are not very intelligent and are wasting my time with a pointless question.
Now let me raise you a question. Why did you in fact not read your pm?
Clearly, as I am of diminished intelligence, please oh wise mafia master, tell me why I need to read my pm for D1 play?
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on September 27, 2017, 07:13:56 pm
Aka Town Finding/Killing/getting rid of Scum/Helping town through various other means.
Aka Scum: Misdirecting and obliterating the town.
It's preparation essentially and it in all areas of life will help you out usually. It's just a good idea to prepare yourself and be ready to use your role properly when the time comes.
Post by: hector13 on September 27, 2017, 07:14:43 pm
hector13: Is drunkposting a town or a neutral tell to you?
I'm gonna completely ignore the question and say you're scum, Shakerag.
Post by: BlackHeartKabal on September 27, 2017, 07:26:24 pm
BlackHeartKabal: What subtle thing catches your eye on D1?Not much about scum carries over from other Supernaturals, as far as I can see. I'm not very observant about things like that, I suppose, since I see nothing out of the ordinary with the flavor text. Other than flavor? Your question to Abstract, for one.
hector13: You sure about this vote?
TheDarkStar: At which vote number does a lynch become a bandwagon? Where is the line drawn, that separates legitimate voters from bandwagoners?
Teneb: If you were an SK who could instead prepare a night making your next kill unblockable, would you focus on kill attempts or unstoppable kills?
AbstractTraitorHero: The Sexton role in the role list sounds mighty useless from his flavor text, wouldn't you agree?
Tiruin: You're the nullest tell. I think that means you're high on the list of potential random lynches, if we lack a real lead. What do you say?
Shakerag: ...what exactly are you doing, tell me? And which three questions of mine here pop out to you?
juicebox: If you were a converting, town hostile third party role, who would you be converting?
Post by: hector13 on September 27, 2017, 07:29:51 pm
hector13: You sure about this vote?
Who else should I be voting for, like?
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on September 27, 2017, 07:36:03 pm
But I have a question for you.
BlackHeartKabal
Why are you Role-Fishing? Becuase it looks like your damn role-fishing to me trying to see if I'm the Sexton because those kinda questions generally revolving around roles have always rubbed me the wrong way. I flat out see it as a scum tell because Town doesn't benefit from it really.
Post by: Shakerag on September 27, 2017, 07:42:40 pm
To check whether or not you have a role with any special abilities of course and so you can understand what you can do with said role and how you should use it to get the best possible outcome for your team.Well, I posit that if I'm town, I'm going to hunt scum. If I'm scum, I need to appear indistinguishable from town, so I need to hunt scum. Therefore, regardless of what my pm contains, my behaviour would be the same on D1.
Aka Town Finding/Killing/getting rid of Scum/Helping town through various other means.
Aka Scum: Misdirecting and obliterating the town.
It's preparation essentially and it in all areas of life will help you out usually. It's just a good idea to prepare yourself and be ready to use your role properly when the time comes.
hector13:
Did I piss in your cornflakes?hector13: Is drunkposting a town or a neutral tell to you?
I'm gonna completely ignore the question and say you're scum, Shakerag.
Well, either way, if you get your wish we'll find out together whether I'm scum or not.
BHK:
Shakerag: ...what exactly are you doing, tell me? And which three questions of mine here pop out to you?I'm participating in RVS. What does it look like?
And none of your questions stand out to me in particular. Seems to be pretty standard RVS-fare.
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on September 27, 2017, 07:49:36 pm
ATH:To check whether or not you have a role with any special abilities of course and so you can understand what you can do with said role and how you should use it to get the best possible outcome for your team.Well, I posit that if I'm town, I'm going to hunt scum. If I'm scum, I need to appear indistinguishable from town, so I need to hunt scum. Therefore, regardless of what my pm contains, my behavior would be the same on D1.
Aka Town Finding/Killing/getting rid of Scum/Helping town through various other means.
Aka Scum: Misdirecting and obliterating the town.
It's preparation essentially and it in all areas of life will help you out usually. It's just a good idea to prepare yourself and be ready to use your role properly when the time comes.
This is very flawed logic. If your town then yeah sure it works a bit but knowing if you have a role is still very valuable.
But if your scum then you could potentially be reaming into your scum partner and end up lynching him/Her which would be disadvantageous for you since usually, two heads are better than one.
Overall not reading your role pm to me seems like something with mostly negative consequences and little benefits.
Post by: BlackHeartKabal on September 27, 2017, 08:03:58 pm
BlackHeartKabal1 - Not sure how that's role fishing, but let's roll with it till someone explains how it could be interpreted as so, because what I said comes off as completely innocuous.
Why are you Role-Fishing? Becuase it looks like your damn role-fishing to me trying to see if I'm the Sexton because those kinda questions generally revolving around roles have always rubbed me the wrong way. I flat out see it as a scum tell because Town doesn't benefit from it really.
2 - If the Sexton is how it was in the previous games, then to me it's the most useless role one could get barring the alarmingly specific circumstance of "EVERYONE SOMEONE HAS INTERFERED WITH THIS GRAVE AND THEY WERE NOT REVIVED, I HAVE FULFILLED MY ENTIRE DUTY AND OBLIGATION RELATED TO THE SPECIFICS OF MY ROLE FOR THE TOWN". I could rant about this a bit, but I think that states my point pretty well.
3 - Considering the above, you think I'd rolefish for the Sexton?
Post by: Shakerag on September 27, 2017, 08:06:31 pm
2 - If the Sexton is how it was in the previous games, then to me it's the most useless role one could get barring the alarmingly specific circumstance of "EVERYONE SOMEONE HAS INTERFERED WITH THIS GRAVE AND THEY WERE NOT REVIVED, I HAVE FULFILLED MY ENTIRE DUTY AND OBLIGATION RELATED TO THE SPECIFICS OF MY ROLE FOR THE TOWN". I could rant about this a bit, but I think that states my point pretty well.I like the snark in this one.
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on September 27, 2017, 08:10:25 pm
1. Typically asking about roles in general except when asking the gm can be considered a form of role-fishing in my eyes. Especially since you mentioned a specific role. You were trying to bait me and find out whether I am the Sexton or not by my reaction.BlackHeartKabal1 - Not sure how that's role fishing, but let's roll with it till someone explains how it could be interpreted as so, because what I said comes off as completely innocuous.
Why are you Role-Fishing? Becuase it looks like your damn role-fishing to me trying to see if I'm the Sexton because those kinda questions generally revolving around roles have always rubbed me the wrong way. I flat out see it as a scum tell because Town doesn't benefit from it really.
2 - If the Sexton is how it was in the previous games, then to me it's the most useless role one could get barring the alarmingly specific circumstance of "EVERYONE SOMEONE HAS INTERFERED WITH THIS GRAVE AND THEY WERE NOT REVIVED, I HAVE FULFILLED MY ENTIRE DUTY AND OBLIGATION RELATED TO THE SPECIFICS OF MY ROLE FOR THE TOWN". I could rant about this a bit, but I think that states my point pretty well.
3 - Considering the above, you think I'd role fish for the Sexton?
2.I have had no experience with previous supernatural games and am basically going in blind. I have no knowledge of what the roles of the previous game were like. However, you are engaging in my eyes in WIFOM of the motives of the gm. Becuase you are making an assumption it would be the same and furthermore "If the sexton is how it was in the previous games" Makes me believe that it could be different or that supernatural has a habit of changing what roles do occasionally.
3. Sure.
Post by: hector13 on September 27, 2017, 08:56:31 pm
Also, you can... dis... uh... the uhm... basically you can figure out whether or not someone has a particular role depending on the answer they give. Whatever the fucking word is that I can't quite get out. This is useful for night actions, mostly the scum NK so they can figure out who has the powerful town roles and get them out the game quicker. Just because the role you ask about is innocuous does not mean you're not rolefishing nor that said rolefishing is much more useful to scum than town at this point.
At least that's what I'd say if I wanted to push you as scum. Probably. Cannae push yer granny aff a bus, push push.
Anyhow, seeing as I'm aware you learned to play Mafia in a place that (maybe) seems to think the night game is the all important part of Mafia (lol) and if you are scum this'll at least get you to do something pro-town, perhaps you can tell us how the Sexton can be useful otherwise, in case someone got it and is fucked off completely regarding its apparent uselessness.
Post by: hector13 on September 27, 2017, 08:57:24 pm
Also, Shakes, I don't eat cornflakes. I might have some scat fetish, so you're totally breaking the rules bringing that up.
Post by: Shakerag on September 27, 2017, 09:54:28 pm
@BHK, in case that wasn't obvious.It was a metaphorical statement, you goddamn pervert. And besides, gentlemen prefer cake farting.
Also, Shakes, I don't eat cornflakes. I might have some scat fetish, so you're totally breaking the rules bringing that up.
ATH:
1. Typically asking about roles in general except when asking the gm can be considered a form of role-fishing in my eyes. Especially since you mentioned a specific role. You were trying to bait me and find out whether I am the Sexton or not by my reaction.I like to butt in on other people's arguments, so I have to agree with BHK and wonder who the fuck gives a shit about whether or not someone is a Sexton? Feels like you're trying to grasp at straws.
I'm not even drinking yet, but I want to keep going on this one.
Stay with me.
What kind of scenario are you even picturing? "Oh noes, I have teh saxon but BHK is talkin' shit about my role so I have to say it is teh bestest EVAR!!11!" Let's say you are a Sexton. How would your talking about the strengths/weaknesses of said role give anything away? If you can't talk about any role objectively as any role yourself, then you and me need to go play poker for money.
(inb4 chainsawing)
Post by: TheDarkStar on September 27, 2017, 11:25:16 pm
TheDarkStar: At which vote number does a lynch become a bandwagon? Where is the line drawn, that separates legitimate voters from bandwagoners?
In one sense, any vote past the first few is a bandwagon - if a town alignment cop finds scum and points it out, everyone is going to follow his lead because that's the logical thing to do (and if the cop is lying scum he'll be lynched in turn by everyone). So in the sense of people persuading other people to vote for someone, most votes are bandwagons ("I think player X is scum!" "Me too (because I trust the first player/agree with his reasoning")!).
On the other hand, if you use bandwagon in the sense of voting to look like you're doing something it's slightly different. Scummy bandwagoning occurs when people are pushing for a lynch instead of pushing for a scum lynch. With this kind, you see lots of "me too" votes without any supporting reasoning. Not only is the player in question contributing nothing, but they're either town and blindly following what another, potentially scummy, player is doing, or they're actually scum and gladly helping with a mislynch.
Spotting the difference between the two types of bandwagoning is quite important in the daygame. The more (good and logical) supporting reasoning someone has, the more likely I am to view them as town. Scum can only do some much before they're playing against their wincon.
TheDarkStar: What is your experience with Supernatural games?
I played in the last one (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=150876.0) but it's been a long time and I don't really remember it.
Post by: Reverie on September 28, 2017, 04:01:11 am
Teneb: Would you consider engaging in WIFOM to be a null, or negative tell? Why?
Tiruin: What are your thoughts on no-lynching?
juicebox: I don't think we've ever played a game together. Do you most enjoy being town, or scum?
Shakerag: Cake-farting sounds like a scumtell. I can't abide by this. Please don't tell me what that means.
Reverie: If you received a list of roles in the game (but not who has them) which role would worry you the most?Witches for sure, just perusing the list in the first post. I'm not sure if they've existed as a neutral third party, but they would prioritise coven needs over town's needs either way. Does any particular role worry you?
Post by: Tiruin on September 28, 2017, 07:31:01 am
Also I'm quite :D because Reverie and a few others are here.
Tiruin: Are you going to stab me in the back this game?THAT DEPENDS O_O ARE YOU SCUM? Because I can't particularly backstab scum, only frontstab.
For Town I- reads PMs
...I can't backstab anyone :V
ONLY IN THE FRONT THOUGH!
But in all seriousness, nop! I don't treat people based on metaknowledge and meta-analysis. More how they play in the game right meow! :3
But that reminds me of something O_O
Shaekrag: Let's say you're a Sorceror, who is obviously Town. How do you feel about other players in the game in relation to your role?
Mmm, roasty. :PAbstractTraitorHero: I haven't looked at my PM yet. What does that tell you?That you are not very intelligent and are wasting my time with a pointless question.
Now let me raise you a question. Why did you in fact not read your pm?
ATH: What's your impression of people, their PM, and the first day?
Tiruin: You're the nullest tell. I think that means you're high on the list of potential random lynches, if we lack a real lead. What do you say?I feel intriguing in seeing those first two sentences :3 It comes off to me as if that first thing is a general idea that becomes reinforced suuuuper subtly.
Dat 'We' dough!
What I can say is to boop that kind of certainty because it speaks of confidence, and ask how is any of that correlated.
And then I can silently think to myself on heeeey this is a nice conversation starter! Reminds me of the many scenes in the movie, The Princess Bride.
Are you speaking for yourself there when you typed that out? BHK
Tiruin: What are your thoughts on no-lynching?Not a good idea at this time. Nor in any time, considering nothing but the event of the lynch and 9 players at the present.
However now that I'm reminded we're at 9 players instead of 13 just by typing that, it makes me feel like agreeing on a no-lynch instead, and Day1 be onto productive (or not-so-productive-due-to-paranoia) conversation with other people!
Problem is I can't do that right now because bundled with stuff until the weekend x.x
I'm staring at a 2 scum 7 town/third-party mix though, because I'm assuming that's the aim here--2 Maffies.
Also I'm PMing Meph stuff because my brain doesn't work because I'm curious because I can't parse words. :'(
Post by: Reverie on September 28, 2017, 07:52:34 am
Not a good idea at this time. Nor in any time, considering nothing but the event of the lynch and 9 players at the present.You were right up until you considered it as a sake of promoting more discussion. This is bad. D1 might be a bumbling mess, but any outcome that isn't a no-lynch is some margins better than letting scum get in a free kill. You extend D1 if need be.
However now that I'm reminded we're at 9 players instead of 13 just by typing that, it makes me feel like agreeing on a no-lynch instead, and Day1 be onto productive (or not-so-productive-due-to-paranoia) conversation with other people!
Post by: Mephansteras on September 28, 2017, 09:40:21 am
BlackHeartKabal: AbstractTraitorHero
Shakerag: hector13
[hr[
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Friday
Post by: Tiruin on September 28, 2017, 09:42:34 am
Okay good, Tiruin is here, that just leaves Teneb and juicebox to really get the ball rolling.Yep! :O The feeling wasn't in anyway conclusive, but moreso me opening up to the idea of there being a no-lynch. I don't really like no-lynches, but this is on par with a vanilla BM game not considering roles in play in terms of vote-count-probability-to-LYLO.Not a good idea at this time. Nor in any time, considering nothing but the event of the lynch and 9 players at the present.You were right up until you considered it as a sake of promoting more discussion. This is bad. D1 might be a bumbling mess, but any outcome that isn't a no-lynch is some margins better than letting scum get in a free kill. You extend D1 if need be.
However now that I'm reminded we're at 9 players instead of 13 just by typing that, it makes me feel like agreeing on a no-lynch instead, and Day1 be onto productive (or not-so-productive-due-to-paranoia) conversation with other people!
Day ends ~5pm Pacific FridayDropping in an extend early on please, because I won't be that active till weekend.
Post by: juicebox on September 28, 2017, 10:52:56 am
BHK: Either Tiruin or Teneb
Reverie: I enjoy scum more. I kinda like the nervous tension when things start coming down to the wire and I have to convince everybody that I really am town.
AbstractTraitorHero: If you were a guard, who would you protect first, a watcher or a rolecop.
Reverie: I haven't seen you play much. How would you describe your playstyle?
Teneb: Do you think a no-lynch today is a good idea?
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on September 28, 2017, 05:05:15 pm
ATH: What's your impression of people, their PM, and the first day?
Okay first of all. It is normal to remove all the irrelevant/Stuff that is not addressed at me stuff from the quotes when you respond right?
But my impression of people so far is kinda a mixed bag the only lead I have is BlackHeartKabal and so far that is only do to feeling that he is trying to role-fish. As well as I feel he is being deflective? I suppose that would be the right word? He comes off to me like he was just trying to brush off and deflect then anything and not take my words seriously.
Shakerag I find a bit annoying and I will admit I think he could be drunk but I am hesitant to place any kinda read on him because of what he said about the role pm. Hopefully, he is read it by now and I can get a better read on him. For now, he's in a kinda weird null spot where I'm watching him in the corner of my eye.
As for You? Well this is your first post and you seem to be asking good questions in my opinion and I find you humorous in the way you are writing. I am inclined to believe you are town from the feeling in my gut but I, of course, cannot fully trust that and have to keep my eye on you though that should go without saying.
Pm
I don't quite understand what you mean here? Are you referring to shakerag or just pms in general?
Opinion on first day
Been kinda quiet only a few people talking. We hopefully can get lots of people involved and lots of posts to comb back through on the second day or if we're lucky manage to find a scum and lynch them today. That's the best scenario we kill a scum on day One.
Shakerag: Maybe, if it could get us some useful information I'd be down for it.
BHK: Either Tiruin or Teneb
Reverie: I enjoy scum more. I kinda like the nervous tension when things start coming down to the wire and I have to convince everybody that I really am town.
AbstractTraitorHero: If you were a guard, who would you protect first, a watcher or a rolecop.
Reverie: I haven't seen you play much. How would you describe your playstyle?
Teneb: Do you think a no-lynch today is a good idea?
Juice box
RoleCop I suppose.
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on September 28, 2017, 05:05:55 pm
Extend.
Post by: Teneb on September 28, 2017, 06:02:18 pm
I guarantee a post later today.
Post by: juicebox on September 28, 2017, 06:23:07 pm
Post by: BlackHeartKabal on September 28, 2017, 07:15:26 pm
I speak for whoever feels they're being spoken for.Tiruin: You're the nullest tell. I think that means you're high on the list of potential random lynches, if we lack a real lead. What do you say?I feel intriguing in seeing those first two sentences :3 It comes off to me as if that first thing is a general idea that becomes reinforced suuuuper subtly.
Dat 'We' dough!
What I can say is to boop that kind of certainty because it speaks of confidence, and ask how is any of that correlated.
And then I can silently think to myself on heeeey this is a nice conversation starter! Reminds me of the many scenes in the movie, The Princess Bride.
Are you speaking for yourself there when you typed that out? BHK
Extend
1 - A bolded blue name is traditionally an indicator of suspicion here.
ATH: What's your impression of people, their PM, and the first day?
Okay first of all. It is normal to remove all the irrelevant/Stuff that is not addressed at me stuff from the quotes when you respond right?
But my impression of people so far is kinda a mixed bag the only lead I have is BlackHeartKabal and so far that is only do to feeling that he is trying to role-fish. As well as I feel he is being deflective? I suppose that would be the right word? He comes off to me like he was just trying to brush off and deflect then anything and not take my words seriously.
2 - My point of view, as I see it, is an overreaction on your end to what I figured would be innocuous. And the Sexton role has been the same for more or less all the previous Supernaturals, hasn't it? Why wouldn't it be here?
Post by: hector13 on September 28, 2017, 07:41:22 pm
What about ATH were you going to learn/have you learned from their answer?
Post by: hector13 on September 28, 2017, 07:43:24 pm
Specifically in relation to their alignment.
Post by: Shakerag on September 28, 2017, 08:25:07 pm
Reverie:
I've always hated RVS, but it looks like things are more upbeat than usual for this stage in tYou see, Reverie, when a woman and a cake love each other very much...
Shakerag: Cake-farting sounds like a scumtell. I can't abide by this. Please don't tell me what that means.
The unknown. I think I've only been in one Supernatural before (maybe?) but from what I recall there are always roles not listed. A game like Paranormal you can plan out the possibilities of what you might run into. Supernatural? Well, I'm too lazy to link it but look for the game with Jack A T as both a witch and an elf. (I think I got that right.) That's the kind of crazy shit that should worry anyone.Reverie: If you received a list of roles in the game (but not who has them) which role would worry you the most?Witches for sure, just perusing the list in the first post. I'm not sure if they've existed as a neutral third party, but they would prioritise coven needs over town's needs either way. Does any particular role worry you?
Tir-bear:
o noes u saw rite thru me, i r teh scumz. plz stab me wit ur dagur.Tiruin: Are you going to stab me in the back this game?THAT DEPENDS O_O ARE YOU SCUM? Because I can't particularly backstab scum, only frontstab.
But that reminds me of something O_OAww, Jesus, now I need to see what a Sorceror can do.
Shaekrag: Let's say you're a Sorceror, who is obviously Town. How do you feel about other players in the game in relation to your role?
...
What the hell, that doesn't tell me anything. ಠ_ಠ
I have no idea what a Sorceror does, so I can't answer the question.
ATH:
Shakerag I find a bit annoying and I will admit I think he could be drunk but I am hesitant to place any kinda read on him because of what he said about the role pm. Hopefully, he is read it by now and I can get a better read on him. For now, he's in a kinda weird null spot where I'm watching him in the corner of my eye.I wasn't drunk yet. You'll know it when I am.
And, no, I haven't looked at my PM yet. I'll wait until the day ends.
Post by: Teneb on September 28, 2017, 09:01:34 pm
Teneb: What role would you want to have if you could choose?Assuming the same roles as the 8th one, Knight.
Teneb: If you were an SK who could instead prepare a night making your next kill unblockable, would you focus on kill attempts or unstoppable kills?Regular kills. Sure, you could charge up. And then get killed before you can pull it off. Either to a lynch or to some other ability. And if you opted to kill, you could've hit the person who was responsible for your death. So go for double kill.
Teneb: Would you consider engaging in WIFOM to be a null, or negative tell? Why?Slight scum tell. Not too big on its own, but it adds up with other stuff. At best WIFOM is a waste of time. At worst it is a misdirection.
Teneb: Do you think a no-lynch today is a good idea?This early? No. The lynch is the main tool of the town, to not use it outside a MYLO or LYLO situation is a waste.
Post by: TheDarkStar on September 28, 2017, 11:29:06 pm
Post by: Reverie on September 29, 2017, 06:02:21 am
Reverie: I haven't seen you play much. How would you describe your playstyle?Oops, your question almost slipped my attention. I would probably describe my style to be kind of terse and impatient when I have no leads, but more involved once I smell blood in the water. I know the importance of being careful, and I've used it to dubious effect in a previous game to fight a rather nasty auto-hammer, making that the longest game of mafia on the board (I think). I've engaged in WIFOM and railroaded single players in the past, so I'm not exactly sterling, but I like to think I'm enjoyable to play with anyway.
A tall, sturdy creature fond of drink and Mafia.
I'll extend even though I'm pretty sure we have enough votes to. We need as much gab as we can get on D1.
Post by: Mephansteras on September 29, 2017, 09:10:56 am
BlackHeartKabal: AbstractTraitorHero
Shakerag: hector13
Day has been Extended to ~5pm Pacific Monday. One more possible extension remains for this day.
Post by: Reverie on September 29, 2017, 09:44:51 am
Day has been Extended to ~5pm Pacific Monday. One more possible extension remains for this day.
Just to confirm, gametime does not freeze for weekends?
Post by: Mephansteras on September 29, 2017, 11:34:56 am
Day has been Extended to ~5pm Pacific Monday. One more possible extension remains for this day.
Just to confirm, gametime does not freeze for weekends?
The game keeps going. However, I recognize that many people are busy on weekends so I don't include them in the general counter when ending/extending days. I am often busy myself and make no promises that I will be able to update votecounts or answer questions on weekends, although I do try to check in at least once a day if I can.
Post by: Reverie on September 29, 2017, 11:51:06 am
TheDarkStar: Which type of ability do you feel most comfortable with: misdirection, role-blocking, protection, investigation, or disturbing the dead? Why?
Post by: Teneb on September 29, 2017, 12:30:52 pm
Teneb: If you were a guard, who would you prioritise guarding – someone you wish to protect, or one you feel is malicious?The possibly malicious player. If I suspect they are malicious, I must assume all their actions will be to the detriment of the town. And depending on how many players are alive, using the ability as a protect is too risky.
Post by: Reverie on October 02, 2017, 06:29:36 am
Shakerag: What gives? If you happened to be scum, hypothetically, wouldn't it be detrimental to not know who your scumbuddy was, even on D1? I'm tempted to consider that you know your role after all, but tell us you don't in the interest of removing any accountability on your part today for future discussion. This feels strongly to me like a trick in self-preservation.
Post by: Reverie on October 02, 2017, 06:35:32 am
Teneb: If you were a guard, who would you prioritise guarding – someone you wish to protect, or one you feel is malicious?The possibly malicious player. If I suspect they are malicious, I must assume all their actions will be to the detriment of the town. And depending on how many players are alive, using the ability as a protect is too risky.
Teneb: I think this is the right answer. Blocking the potential victim has the nasty side-effect of keeping them locked inside and maybe preventing them from using their ability. What if you were less sure?
Post by: Shakerag on October 02, 2017, 09:18:59 am
Shakerag: What gives? If you happened to be scum, hypothetically, wouldn't it be detrimental to not know who your scumbuddy was, even on D1? I'm tempted to consider that you know your role after all, but tell us you don't in the interest of removing any accountability on your part today for future discussion. This feels strongly to me like a trick in self-preservation.I already explained this. If I happen to be scum and one of my (unknown) scumbuddies happens to be the one who stands out as the scummiest, then it would appear scummy if I didn't go after them, no? That's pretty basic scum play, in my opinion. Are you saying you would do differently in the same situation if you were scum?
Post by: Reverie on October 02, 2017, 09:55:54 am
Reverie:Shakerag: What gives? If you happened to be scum, hypothetically, wouldn't it be detrimental to not know who your scumbuddy was, even on D1? I'm tempted to consider that you know your role after all, but tell us you don't in the interest of removing any accountability on your part today for future discussion. This feels strongly to me like a trick in self-preservation.I already explained this. If I happen to be scum and one of my (unknown) scumbuddies happens to be the one who stands out as the scummiest, then it would appear scummy if I didn't go after them, no? That's pretty basic scum play, in my opinion. Are you saying you would do differently in the same situation if you were scum?
True on both counts, sure, but it's still weird and there's no saying you can't use this to excuse for whatever you might do or say today. People tend to do things for a reason. As for your question about protecting scumbuddies on D1, it's a grey area. I wouldn't push it too hard, but losing a scumbuddy on D1 is a serious setback. Between jumping on a bandwagon and playing at 'meh I'm not sure about this lynch', it amounts to about the same to me most of the time, but I would likely choose the latter if it came to it on D1.
Post by: Mephansteras on October 02, 2017, 09:58:44 am
Post by: Reverie on October 02, 2017, 10:26:27 am
Post by: Teneb on October 02, 2017, 11:37:44 am
Post by: hector13 on October 02, 2017, 11:44:12 am
Post by: TheDarkStar on October 02, 2017, 01:18:48 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on October 02, 2017, 04:30:44 pm
Post by: Teneb on October 02, 2017, 08:36:30 pm
First: Fuck RVS. With that out of the way...
AbstractHeroTraitor: Why are you a Sexton?
Opinion on first dayDoesn't seem to me that you are very sure about your lynch, going by that. Are you truly willing to rely on blind luck for that lynch?
Been kinda quiet only a few people talking. We hopefully can get lots of people involved and lots of posts to comb back through on the second day or if we're lucky manage to find a scum and lynch them today. That's the best scenario we kill a scum on day One.
Still a better choice to block the potential scum.Teneb: If you were a guard, who would you prioritise guarding – someone you wish to protect, or one you feel is malicious?The possibly malicious player. If I suspect they are malicious, I must assume all their actions will be to the detriment of the town. And depending on how many players are alive, using the ability as a protect is too risky.
Teneb: I think this is the right answer. Blocking the potential victim has the nasty side-effect of keeping them locked inside and maybe preventing them from using their ability. What if you were less sure?
Post by: Reverie on October 03, 2017, 11:02:22 am
Post by: Tiruin on October 03, 2017, 11:34:25 am
Quickreeds! Because three pages isn't enough :P And because its not enough, I'm not putting town/scum stickers, but my feelings and what I like.
hector13 - Poke poke queries! Feels nice to see queries and mutual exchange, rather than queries directed to seem active and magnify a point early on. Then it got cut off at these times.
TheDarkStar - You're the only one without an avatar. :I And your only post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7578331#msg7578331) is nice. But where's the notes for everyone else? I like the extensions though.
Teneb - I missed you! We've got little going on today; got anything for others or anything poking out from others?
Reverie -
AbstractTraitorHero - Is poking everything, probably acting isolated. I don't like the jumpiness but the consistency remains in his narrative in how he approaches folks, so its developing well. Got anything on insights on your most scummy person?
Shakerag - Feels concerned about himself @_@ that or I'm looking too much at some instances that seem self-referencing; other than him NOT reading his PM, his queries are...non-directional to others (or pretty directional in a way), albeit pretty nice for casual talk. Why didn't you read your role PM, and aside from that--what are your reasons for voting today?
Tiruin - Hai :D I'm Tiruin! Busy busy stirring this cauldron of reeds!
BlackHeartKabal - Feels analytical. BHK: Why is your first post query only have a really nice question to TDS? And how do you suspect Shakerag?
juicebox - You got 2 posts :O One of them is an extension, and the other is responses. Got anything?
Feels like people are laid back because of role stuff, is one presumption--but to explain idleness via checking in game notes, is very little to even infer this is what's going on. :P
Post by: Reverie on October 03, 2017, 11:55:05 am
Post by: TheDarkStar on October 03, 2017, 12:02:30 pm
TheDarkStar: Which type of ability do you feel most comfortable with: misdirection, role-blocking, protection, investigation, or disturbing the dead? Why?
Investigation or protection, since misdirection and role-blocking have a reasonable chance of messing things up for town. And disturbing the dead is not likely to be that useful (unless that actually means reading the deadchat, which might be useful).
TheDarkStar - You're the only one without an avatar. :I And your only post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7578331#msg7578331) is nice. But where's the notes for everyone else? I like the extensions though.
I've been much busier than I've expected ::). And yeah, my first post started off as a normal response but became an essay.
In regards to other people, Tiruin, Reverie, Shakerag, ATH, hector, and BHK (and me after this post) are the only ones with non-RVS content. Basically ATH and BHK started accusing each other of being scummy and everyone piled on from there.
hector: Do you plan to keep your RVS vote on Shakerag??
ATH: Do you still think your vote on BHK is justified? Why?
Post by: Tiruin on October 03, 2017, 12:49:55 pm
I petition town and scum stickers become a thing. We can start a merch line with fun lines such as 'I was scum and lived to tell the tale' or 'I <3 Town'Made my day there :P :D
Now I wonder if we can theme that in Meph's games. Humorous stuff, like "I'm a mighty Sauceror!" or "I guarded my guard. We both locked ourselves out."
Eep ._. no pressure TDS (the rolling eyes emoticon had me go :-[), but your first post is okay :PTheDarkStar - You're the only one without an avatar. :I And your only post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7578331#msg7578331) is nice. But where's the notes for everyone else? I like the extensions though.
I've been much busier than I've expected ::). And yeah, my first post started off as a normal response but became an essay.
It's just its your only post other than nice extensions.
Post by: hector13 on October 03, 2017, 01:56:49 pm
Bwuuuh busyness strikes :-[ :-\
Quickreeds! Because three pages isn't enough :P And because its not enough, I'm not putting town/scum stickers, but my feelings and what I like.
hector13 - Poke poke queries! Feels nice to see queries and mutual exchange, rather than queries directed to seem active and magnify a point early on. Then it got cut off at these times.
Well, the person I was poking disappeared - or was ignoring me - and it slid into the weekend when I have other obligations, thus didn't want to start a discussion with anyone knowing I wouldn't be able to keep it going.
The only other interesting person was Shakerag, who was drawing a lot of ire from suggesting he didn't read his PM. Unfortunately the discussion that prompted was regarding mafia theory, which is of negligible use for reading folks. He'll likely draw some attention during the night though.
Anyway, to answer TDS' question:
Unvote
Oh there's only 9 players why did I think there were more.
Er...
ATH
This stuck out on a re-read:
But if your scum then you could potentially be reaming into your scum partner and end up lynching him/Her which would be disadvantageous for you since usually, two heads are better than one.
'cause there's no mention of the number of scum in the game.
I'm also somewhat nonplussed regarding the lack of voting, even FoS'ing. I understand the day will end on everyone using their vote, but come on guys, 5 hours left in the day (I think) and there's a... probably RVS? vote and a handful of FoSes.
Post by: hector13 on October 03, 2017, 02:02:41 pm
BHK
You "missed" a few things from me that perhaps demand a response:
After I dropped a vote on Shakerag (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7578184#msg7578184).
hector13: You sure about this vote?
Who else should I be voting for, like?
When you said you weren't rolefishing (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7578227#msg7578227).
You asked about a specific role and what someone thought regarding that. 'Tis about the extent of rolefishing is it not? Especially in a game like this when we know there are roles but not necessarily what they do.
Also, you can... dis... uh... the uhm... basically you can figure out whether or not someone has a particular role depending on the answer they give. Whatever the fucking word is that I can't quite get out. This is useful for night actions, mostly the scum NK so they can figure out who has the powerful town roles and get them out the game quicker. Just because the role you ask about is innocuous does not mean you're not rolefishing nor that said rolefishing is much more useful to scum than town at this point.
At least that's what I'd say if I wanted to push you as scum. Probably. Cannae push yer granny aff a bus, push push.
Anyhow, seeing as I'm aware you learned to play Mafia in a place that (maybe) seems to think the night game is the all important part of Mafia (lol) and if you are scum this'll at least get you to do something pro-town, perhaps you can tell us how the Sexton can be useful otherwise, in case someone got it and is fucked off completely regarding its apparent uselessness.
This one after you said the sexton role was probably the same (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7578942#msg7578942) in this game as all the others.
Why did you ask about it, then?
What about ATH were you going to learn/have you learned from their answer?
Post by: Shakerag on October 03, 2017, 02:53:25 pm
•hector13 - RVS vote on me, general banter and some questioning, possible point about AHT assuming two scum.
•TheDarkStar - Responding to questions, asking about other peoples' votes
•Teneb - Responding to questions, asking ATH why he's a Sexton
•Reverie - RVS, banter, little non-rvs content
•AbstractTraitorHero - Possibly agressive in RVS? Accuses BHK of rolefishing. Could be scum grasping for a lynch, or just aggressive town.
•Shakerag - Sociopath.
•Tiruin - Is Tiruin. Mentions 2 scum lineup after AHT has made a similar assumption. Suggests a no-lynch? Posts reads.
•BlackHeartKabal - RVS, amusingly snarky.
•juicebox - RVS and that's it.
Activity wise, hector13, Teneb, ATH, Tiruin have the most non-rvs content (relatively speaking).
TDS is a little in the middle.
Reverie, BHK, juicebox: Nothing of note outside of RVS stuff. Could be lurky scum, disinterested town, bored 3p, or just busy.
So, to my analysis, this is little better than a random lynch.
AbstractTraitorHero: So why did you pick "two" as the size of the scumteam in your earlier reply?
Post by: Mephansteras on October 03, 2017, 03:14:54 pm
AbstractTraitorHero: Shakerag
BlackHeartKabal: AbstractTraitorHero
Day ends in ~4 hours. No more extensions are available for this day.
Post by: Teneb on October 03, 2017, 04:04:46 pm
Post by: hector13 on October 03, 2017, 04:44:59 pm
Post by: Reverie on October 03, 2017, 04:49:08 pm
Post by: hector13 on October 03, 2017, 04:55:03 pm
ATH said it so matter-of-fact-like that it seemed they knew that there was two and only two, rather than they were just guessing.
There's nothing else to go on right now to be fair, other than BHK for me.
Post by: BlackHeartKabal on October 03, 2017, 05:00:59 pm
EBWOP1 - Just because we have mislynches doesn't make them something we can just waste.
BHK
You "missed" a few things from me that perhaps demand a response:
After I dropped a vote on Shakerag (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7578184#msg7578184).hector13: You sure about this vote?
Who else should I be voting for, like?
When you said you weren't rolefishing (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7578227#msg7578227).You asked about a specific role and what someone thought regarding that. 'Tis about the extent of rolefishing is it not? Especially in a game like this when we know there are roles but not necessarily what they do.
Also, you can... dis... uh... the uhm... basically you can figure out whether or not someone has a particular role depending on the answer they give. Whatever the fucking word is that I can't quite get out. This is useful for night actions, mostly the scum NK so they can figure out who has the powerful town roles and get them out the game quicker. Just because the role you ask about is innocuous does not mean you're not rolefishing nor that said rolefishing is much more useful to scum than town at this point.
At least that's what I'd say if I wanted to push you as scum. Probably. Cannae push yer granny aff a bus, push push.
Anyhow, seeing as I'm aware you learned to play Mafia in a place that (maybe) seems to think the night game is the all important part of Mafia (lol) and if you are scum this'll at least get you to do something pro-town, perhaps you can tell us how the Sexton can be useful otherwise, in case someone got it and is fucked off completely regarding its apparent uselessness.
This one after you said the sexton role was probably the same (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7578942#msg7578942) in this game as all the others.Why did you ask about it, then?
What about ATH were you going to learn/have you learned from their answer?
2 - I've already established I think the Sexton is useless. I can treat it as a vanilla townie and it's unlikely the role has changed, so it was a good question for me to ask ATH.
3. I think I posted an answer to this before, but again, it's to see what they'd do.
Post by: hector13 on October 03, 2017, 05:06:12 pm
The sexton may very well be useless, which is why it's useful for scum to know who it is so as not to waste any time with them. Rolefishing for crap roles is still rolefishing.
What did you learn about ATH and their alignment?
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on October 03, 2017, 05:12:48 pm
Sorry I haven't been posting much for a while. I am kinda coming down with some kinda cold and its fucking terrible.
Post by: BlackHeartKabal on October 03, 2017, 05:17:20 pm
At that point in the game there were 2 people voting and a great chunk of day remaining. Why worry about someone being lynched then? Also, how do you know Shakerag would be a mislynch?Fair point, didn't think about that one.
The sexton may very well be useless, which is why it's useful for scum to know who it is so as not to waste any time with them. Rolefishing for crap roles is still rolefishing.
What did you learn about ATH and their alignment?
Nothing learned that hasn't been disproven. I thought they were town, now I'm not so sure.
Post by: Mephansteras on October 03, 2017, 09:44:03 pm
AbstractTraitorHero: Shakerag, Teneb
BlackHeartKabal: AbstractTraitorHero
The day wears long. Little has been accomplished, really. Some chit-chat, idle speculation, and a few half-hearted accusations.
"Come, friends, it is time to cast the final votes." Says the High Priest. "We cannot let this meeting go past sundown."
With nervous looks and a bit of uncertainty a few final votes are cast.
"I call upon the Pact of Blood. AbstractTraitorHero stand forth and meet thy fate."
With an almost shocked expression on his face he stands and marches forward. Worry crosses his face, as the severity of the situation hits him. Then resolve.
"I regret that I must die this way, and not in battle against the fiends of the night as a proper Templar should." He bows his head. "But I accept the pact." The executioner swings a mighty blow with his axe and AbstractTraitorHero is no more.
His eyes sorrowful, the High Priest turns to the rest of you. "We have lost a powerful ally this day. Please, go home and rest. You must do better tomorrow. We cannot afford mistakes like this!"
Night has fallen. Send in your actions!
Post by: Mephansteras on October 04, 2017, 11:21:28 pm
You arrive for the Assembly the next day to find a commotion in the town square. Two bodies have been lain out on the stones, and the High Priest is looking them over.
As you get closer, you can see that the bodies are those of BlackHeartKabal and Shakerag.
“Ah. Good. Now that you’ve all arrived, I have news. Mostly good, surprisingly.” He composes himself.
“We had two deaths last night. Both were rather horrific.”
“BlackHeartKabal, or what is left of him, seems to have been eaten. However, we should not mourn him too much. It seems, based on a series of tattoos still visible on his neck that he was a host for a Devil. No doubt here to cause mischief, or worse.”
“Shakerag was, I believe, the one who ate BlackHeartKabal. He was a Ghoul, a sad soul cursed by some black magic to kill and eat others to survive. His death makes us all safer, but there is still the question of who managed to kill such a creature? He himself had his eyes and heart removed. For what reason I could not say. Regardless, I fear we are still all in great danger.”
“Now, please, sit and begin. These trials are far from over.”
Day 2 has started. It will go until ~5pm Pacific Monday.
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on October 04, 2017, 11:33:39 pm
"Well that was better then I expected."
Post by: Reverie on October 05, 2017, 03:23:05 am
hector posited that ATH slipped up by assuming a two player scumteam, which was a sharp observation, if wrong. I won't hold that against him though, since he never voted in the first place and therefore wasn't even pushing for that lynch.
Teneb, your jump onto the bandwagon in hindsight was little more than just that. Your reasoning about breaking the tie works just as well for scum and town, and considering the flip I have a vague notion that you are more likely the former.
juicebox: You were conspicuously absent yesterday. Post.
Post by: Tiruin on October 05, 2017, 03:54:41 am
Okay so first, my thoughts. None of these roleflips reflect any of the roles listed in the OP, which is a surprise. ATH flipped town without question, but both the Ghoul and the Devil flipped kind of vaguely allegiance-wise, so drawing conclusions from that I would say that they might be from two separate third parties, both malicious. Who killed Shakerag?If it helps, my role is part of the OP :V
Also, time for archive trawling! Ghoul...sounds like this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=78693.msg2157152;topicseen#msg2157152) thing (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=78693.msg2157171;topicseen#msg2157171), of which I have personal experience with the role myself in one bastard game where I won with Bookthras :3
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leafsnail (other)
You’re an odd sort. Which, considering that you’re actually a Ghoul isn’t that surprising. You exist in a strange state between life and death, and that state gives you a hatred and mistrust of all living creatures. So much so that you’re willing to kill them. Your connection with death also grants you strength, and through the consumption of dead flesh you can gain even more power.
Each night you may choose to Kill an opponent. Alternatively, if there is a corpse available, you may choose to Eat it instead. If you eat a corpse you gain power and your next kill becomes unblockable.
You win when there is no one left to oppose you.
The Devil reminds me of when I read a lot of Soupernaturals in the past. This (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=89665.msg2630678;topicseen#msg2630678) thing (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=89665.msg2644008#msg2644008), who coincidentally is always Leafsnail (:P), is as follows.
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Leafsnail (other)
You are a Devil, here to seduce the folk of this town into surrendering their souls for power. Each night you may select a player to Offer Power to. You may offer them one of the following powers:
o One-shot Night Kill (or an unblockable night kill if they have a normal one)
o One-shot Protection
o One-shot Role-block
o One-shot Investigation of a player's Role and Faction
o One-shot Redirection
How you wish to phrase the offer is entirely up to you (all, some, or only one of the options). You can grant any of those powers, although only one per person. If the player accepts, then you gain their soul and they gain the power.
The offer is made through me, in order to hide your identity.
Once you have 3 souls you win, taking all of those who souls you took with you back to the hells.
Now for the Templar which sounds REALLY COOL and I want that one day :'(
. . .Err, I can't find any REAL APPLIED role other than one spotted in dis (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=34959.msg814197#msg814197)cussions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57774.msg1272836;topicseen#msg1272836) somewhat, so searching it up on Mafia stuffs, I find this? (http://epicmafia.wikia.com/wiki/Templar)
So err, going by Meph's discussed (link = 'cussion') thing, the only link is a "Charismatic Cultist", OF WHICH IS ME (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131512.msg4781982#msg4781982)!
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Tiruin - You are a Charismatic Cultist, and the one who drew the others into your confidence. You who dusted off the ancient tomes, and spoke the forgotten truths of your faith. Once during the game you may choose to attempt to convert the target rather than sacrifice them. Note that you must be the one to approach them for this to work. With the ancient power behind you, there are few who could possibly resist such an offer....Some good memories, that. But I still feel bad that I knew that I was a surprise to everyone else so...yeah.
Meaning, of which I infer, we've got 5 dudes left! Meaning 3 town probably maybe versus 2 Mafia maybe somehow probably?
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hector13But but, that means there's a Charismatic Cultist IN THE LEAST I'D INFER, or something related to the Templar! :O
TheDarkStar
Teneb
Reverie
Tiruin
juicebox
AbstractTraitorHero - Town Templar
Shakerag - Ghoul
BlackHeartKabal - Devil
And uh...
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“BlackHeartKabal, or what is left of him, seems to have been eaten. However, we should not mourn him too much. It seems, based on a series of tattoos still visible on his neck that he was a host for a Devil. No doubt here to cause mischief, or worse.”Yep, a Ghoul ate you.
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“Shakerag was, I believe, the one who ate BlackHeartKabal. He was a Ghoul, a sad soul cursed by some black magic to kill and eat others to survive. His death makes us all safer, but there is still the question of who managed to kill such a creature? I fear we are still all in great danger.”...Wow I didn't read the flavor but the bolded portions, but the villager doing this really helped out who killed who. :P
Now why would said villager make it worse and NOT say how this one was killed?! :I
Yeah other than mention that they died horrifically. :V It'd be HILARIOUS if they targeted each other. Or Ghoul got redirected onto himself (not possible given the readings), and then what.
I'd say this is LYLO but I'm all weirded out.
And then there was no Mafia but everyone was Ghouls :P (Ok not really. Doesn't read like there are any duplicates)
I'm still trusting Reverie. :I
And I will assume that the Ghoul died by...not the Mafia. Because something would be TELLING. Because being a past Charismatic Cultist, I got to sacrifice people on an altar! Hmph! [/totallynotevil]
I killed Cmega (who is Caroline, and is a cool gal) like this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131512.msg4781985#msg4781985), but this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131512.msg4762984#msg4762984) is public flavor of what that looks like (edited to follow up this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131512.msg4762196#msg4762196)).
Meph: Can we check the deceased's doors, houses, and belongings? Please do that for all 3 dead dudes, thank you!
So I'm kinda making an assumption the Cha. Cultist is a thing, and we're fighting a Mafia CULT.
Post by: Teneb on October 05, 2017, 05:42:09 am
Teneb, your jump onto the bandwagon in hindsight was little more than just that. Your reasoning about breaking the tie works just as well for scum and town, and considering the flip I have a vague notion that you are more likely the former.I made a decision with the minimal information available to me yesterday. Which is more than can be said for nearly everyone else considering the minimal quantity of votes cast.
Stop absolutely everything.Okay so first, my thoughts. None of these roleflips reflect any of the roles listed in the OP, which is a surprise. ATH flipped town without question, but both the Ghoul and the Devil flipped kind of vaguely allegiance-wise, so drawing conclusions from that I would say that they might be from two separate third parties, both malicious. Who killed Shakerag?If it helps, my role is part of the OP :V
Also, time for archive trawling! Ghoul...sounds like this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=78693.msg2157152;topicseen#msg2157152) thing (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=78693.msg2157171;topicseen#msg2157171), of which I have personal experience with the role myself in one bastard game where I won with Bookthras :3Quoteleafsnail (other)
You’re an odd sort. Which, considering that you’re actually a Ghoul isn’t that surprising. You exist in a strange state between life and death, and that state gives you a hatred and mistrust of all living creatures. So much so that you’re willing to kill them. Your connection with death also grants you strength, and through the consumption of dead flesh you can gain even more power.
Each night you may choose to Kill an opponent. Alternatively, if there is a corpse available, you may choose to Eat it instead. If you eat a corpse you gain power and your next kill becomes unblockable.
You win when there is no one left to oppose you.
Teneb: If you were an SK who could instead prepare a night making your next kill unblockable, would you focus on kill attempts or unstoppable kills?Huh. We let a huge slip go right past us. Fuck me for not noticing, I guess.
Post by: BlackHeartKabal on October 05, 2017, 06:05:00 am
https://youtu.be/ztQOxZQjQXw
Post by: Tiruin on October 05, 2017, 07:15:06 am
Stop absolutely everything.Err, wot? o_o
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What do you think about people's RVS questions then, if they mention a certain role towards other people or certain situations?Teneb: If you were an SK who could instead prepare a night making your next kill unblockable, would you focus on kill attempts or unstoppable kills?Huh. We let a huge slip go right past us. Fuck me for not noticing, I guess.
Also am reading up stuff because 6 people alive doesn't make me feel good to the situation at present.
Post by: Shakerag on October 05, 2017, 09:22:35 am
Post by: Teneb on October 05, 2017, 11:31:15 am
You posting Leafsnail's flip caused me to realize the incredible slip BHK did in RVS.Stop absolutely everything.
As for your question, it depends. You can ask about another role to fish or to mislead.
Turns out my answer may have prompted BHK to go for Shakerag instead of preparing for an unblockable kill. Sorry Shakes.
Post by: hector13 on October 05, 2017, 02:28:45 pm
Post by: Teneb on October 05, 2017, 02:48:01 pm
What makes you think BHK was the one what killed Shakerag?Wait. Damn it, I misread the day start flavour. For whatever reason I thought BHK was the Ghoul and Shakerag was the Devil. I have no idea why BHK asked Ghoul-specific advice then.
I was going to say because the flavour said Shakerag was eaten, but turns out that it was BHK who got nom'd. Reading is hard.
Post by: hector13 on October 05, 2017, 09:31:36 pm
Anyway, BHK (presumably) made me an offer last night, I refused.
[wifom]Evidently I'm not trustworthy enough to offer a kill :'([/wifom]
Previous Supernatural players: seeing as I'm too lazy to check, has Meph ever repeated the scum faction in past games?
Tiruin: you say you're still trusting Reverie, but their play D1 was more toward theorizing re: Shakerag's "Did I read my PM? Maybes aye, maybes naw" and poking other players than generating content, and has gone after two stupendously obvious targets at the start of D2. What exactly is it about 'em that makes you comfortable ignoring them for the time being?
Everyone else:
Post by: TheDarkStar on October 05, 2017, 11:51:30 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on October 06, 2017, 12:00:23 am
Post by: Reverie on October 06, 2017, 02:10:43 am
Everyone else:the fuck were you not voting anyone forPlease provide a short summary of the reason(s) why you were not voting by the end of a double extended D1, and how you will remedy this during D2.
I think the biggest problem in my case is that I am mostly available during the EU daytime, but not in the evenings. I spend those with my boyfriend and as a consequence don't get am opportunity to post when things get busy. I don't expect I'll see another post until maybe about noon (Tiruin pops up, etc.) and you particularly seem to post in my evenings and early morning hours. I think I operate best when timezones are agreeable and chat is less correspondence-y, if that makes sense.
That being said, I have no fucking clue what is going on this game. Activity is low, the setup looks to be complicated just judging by the mess this morning, and yesterday we had very little to go on, so I was not about to play lynch roulette. You were not voting either.
Tiruin:
I'm still trusting Reverie. :I
hector was right to bring this up, btw. I've not done anything worth dropping your suspicion, so don't let our friendship be your blind spot.
Teneb:
Teneb, your jump onto the bandwagon in hindsight was little more than just that. Your reasoning about breaking the tie works just as well for scum and town, and considering the flip I have a vague notion that you are more likely the former.I made a decision with the minimal information available to me yesterday. Which is more than can be said for nearly everyone else considering the minimal quantity of votes cast.
It still tastes bad to me. Shakerag was the only other person to vote and he was third party keeping up appearances. If this is a case of wrong-place-wrong-time, then where does that leave a scumteam?
Post by: Reverie on October 06, 2017, 02:39:32 am
Maybe Shakerag was a serial killer but BHK was one of the two(?) scum on a team.
What are your thoughts on the role titles? The Templar flip was pretty specific, nothing open to interpretation. 'Town Templar'. Are you suggesting that scum flips would not receive the same treatment?
Post by: Tiruin on October 06, 2017, 05:46:42 am
Tiruin: you say you're still trusting Reverie, but their play D1 was more toward theorizing re: Shakerag's "Did I read my PM? Maybes aye, maybes naw" and poking other players than generating content, and has gone after two stupendously obvious targets at the start of D2. What exactly is it about 'em that makes you comfortable ignoring them for the time being?
hector was right to bring this up, btw. I've not done anything worth dropping your suspicion, so don't let our friendship be your blind spot.Y-yeah ._. I'm all mushy and soft like Lenglon when it comes to playing with all around good folks and friends.
BUT! I have a point!
...Well not much, but its also Reverie's nudging of activity and proactivity to bring up points and conversation. In a field of silence, it's points to me anyway.
But thanks dudes for the kindness.
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Previous Supernatural players: seeing as I'm too lazy to check, has Meph ever repeated the scum faction in past games?Yep!
...Err, if you mean 'scum', you mean 'the roles not seen in the OP that aren't Town', then yes. Bits and pieces anyway, not the whole cloth of 'team' setups. He picks and matches, ramdonly, because I recall he has a RNG bot that does that for everyone.
As per my example of linking several different Supernatural games. :P
Meph's Paranormal/Supernatural games usually have these kinds of twists, because in my eyes he's not playing it conventionally. It's like Mafia-Vanilla difficulty, with "Please don't just rely on the role list" because it gives off a sort of 'elimination' bias, wherein people can gauge and feel safe with their targeting (as everyone is, as likely as Supernatural/Paranormal games are now, all power roles of some types)
But let's get some stuff up. Or some newts on public claims! [/notes]
hector13 - N/A
TheDarkStar - N/A
Teneb - N/A
Reverie - N/A
Tiruin - I claimed my role was part (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7584175#msg7584175) of the OP stuffs, and I'm fairly of the belief that there's a Charismatic Cultist--which brings to mind a 1p scum team. (...despite my example of myself as prior and first Cha. Cultist, where we were 3 folks in an 11 person game ._.), as in there was no Mafia, but there was a Cult.
juicebox - N/A
Juicebox hasn't posted yet, and is the only one to not have posted yet other than all of us.
... I'm the only one who claimed something in public! .-.;
As for your question, it depends. You can ask about another role to fish or to mislead.Err, you lost me here ._. I was wondering by your wording until Hector cleared it up that you mixed up the two. I was really wondering where you were going with BHK/Shakerag and some kills that my english parser didn't work out well.
Juicebox: What's going on with your activity there? Could I get both some reads from you, and a concise analysis of the day today and your suspects/plans?
Everyone else:the fuck were you not voting anyone forPlease provide a short summary of the reason(s) why you were not voting by the end of a double extended D1, and how you will remedy this during D2.
MMM :I I feel too cautious.
TheDarkStar
Maybe Shakerag was a serial killer but BHK was one of the two(?) scum on a team. That assumes that there even is a scumteam, but it would make sense with ATH's flip - it kinda makes sense for a Templar to fight demons. I see this as more likely than having a two-man scumteam left because that would mean that almost half the starting players were scum. (we know there isn't a three-man scum team still out there because otherwise the game would be over by now, barring vigilantes/more 3Ps). It's also possible that we started with three mutually opposed third parties and there's one left. Either way, we probably have one scum left.One of the Twoscum?
How is there not a scumteam? (I'm assuming you mean Mafia team)
And considering the flips, what is your take of the surviving set of probably roles? Not to give off the impression of fishing--as I'm also thinking that roleclaiming would be a good idea either today or tomorrow given how...6/9 may feel like LYLO if at least 2 are non-town/malevolent to town, but to share my own ideas, I think this is a delicately power heavy game.
Like the example of the factional NK of Mafia/Cult (Yes cult had that, see my link. I captured/stabbed people, and can only do that or Charismatically-convert ._.; I mean I'm assuming the same here but!), in which today would've had at least 2 deaths.
Problem is the Ghoul killed the Devil; NO details are to the Ghoul-death (waiting on you Meph) :P
And yeah I said there was an RNG bot, but there seems to be some structured reasoning to what you said there--and I'm following it up with my own.
Post by: Teneb on October 06, 2017, 05:54:28 am
Teneb:I am nearly sure we have a cult. We had 9 players. 1 was a templar. 2 were third parties (devil was always third party in previous games). That leaves 6 players. If it starts with a single cultist, we should have two cultists right now.Teneb, your jump onto the bandwagon in hindsight was little more than just that. Your reasoning about breaking the tie works just as well for scum and town, and considering the flip I have a vague notion that you are more likely the former.I made a decision with the minimal information available to me yesterday. Which is more than can be said for nearly everyone else considering the minimal quantity of votes cast.
It still tastes bad to me. Shakerag was the only other person to vote and he was third party keeping up appearances. If this is a case of wrong-place-wrong-time, then where does that leave a scumteam?
Post by: Tiruin on October 06, 2017, 06:06:57 am
If it starts with a single cultist, we should have two cultists right now.I was going to post something that revealed not-really-useful-stuff-at-the-moment but then I realized something MORE important! (https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/356768917567569931.png)
If my assumptions are right--and if Ghoul-rag died after nom-ing BHK--then there couldn't have been a cult-convert, because a Cult team can only do one or the other.
*reads own link*
...Yeah! Per night!
Post by: Teneb on October 06, 2017, 06:21:21 am
That's assuming it was a cult kill, that the cult even has a kill. Monster Hunters are a potential role, too, so it could've been a town kill.If it starts with a single cultist, we should have two cultists right now.I was going to post something that revealed not-really-useful-stuff-at-the-moment but then I realized something MORE important! (https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/356768917567569931.png)
If my assumptions are right--and if Ghoul-rag died after nom-ing BHK--then there couldn't have been a cult-convert, because a Cult team can only do one or the other.
*reads own link*
...Yeah! Per night!
Post by: Reverie on October 06, 2017, 06:36:42 am
Not to give off the impression of fishing--as I'm also thinking that roleclaiming would be a good idea either today or tomorrow given how...6/9 may feel like LYLO if at least 2 are non-town/malevolent to town, but to share my own ideas, I think this is a delicately power heavy game.
It's hard to tell how a mass-roleclaim would upset the balance here. People with sensitive roles have the short end of that stick, but I think we're nearing the point where we don't have the luxury of choice. It's a bit frustrating that no one has gleaned anything important enough to claim on the spot and report their findings, like a fortune teller might.
Everyone: thoughts on a mass roleclaim?
I am nearly sure we have a cult. We had 9 players. 1 was a templar. 2 were third parties (devil was always third party in previous games). That leaves 6 players. If it starts with a single cultist, we should have two cultists right now.
I'm not actually convinced we're dealing with a charismatic cult, seeing as how Shakerag's death is still a mystery.
Post by: Tiruin on October 06, 2017, 06:38:07 am
[...]I think my post got pushed to the last page :P
Everyone: thoughts on a mass roleclaim?I am nearly sure we have a cult. We had 9 players. 1 was a templar. 2 were third parties (devil was always third party in previous games). That leaves 6 players. If it starts with a single cultist, we should have two cultists right now.
I'm not actually convinced we're dealing with a charismatic cult, seeing as how Shakerag's death is still a mystery.
But I'm waiting on Meph regarding the status of the corpse--until then, no on the roleclaiming in agreement about that sensitivity.
If anyone else has questions to nudge Meph, please do so regarding the flavor of the dead.
Post by: hector13 on October 06, 2017, 06:54:26 am
Not sure regarding killing town-roles, given we had one TP and probably scum. That would basically wipe out half the town in one day, assuming the town, TP, and scum roles didn't get lynched, and they each fired at different targets during the night.
I guess this leads me to believe Shakes' killer is not town, and is bad.
Still potentially two scum left, but I feel like there's only one.
Post by: Mephansteras on October 06, 2017, 09:41:07 am
juicebox: Reverie
TheDarkStar: Tiruin
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Monday
And Tiruin is correct, I seem to have forgotten to include information about one of the death's. Sorry about that. I will update the morning flavor accordingly.
Post by: Reverie on October 06, 2017, 09:48:19 am
Post by: Reverie on October 06, 2017, 10:12:09 am
Post by: Reverie on October 06, 2017, 10:22:29 am
...
Except they grabbed the eyes too, and the moon would have to be full for this to work.
Meph: what is the current phase of the moon?
Post by: Teneb on October 06, 2017, 10:34:17 am
Post by: Mephansteras on October 06, 2017, 11:21:01 am
Also, I should note two things.
1) I linked all the previous games in the first post. Players may benefit from reading over the Role & Night PMs from those games to get a sense of what has happened before.
2) While details about roles can change between games most things tend to be the same from one game to the next.
Post by: juicebox on October 06, 2017, 02:11:44 pm
Reverie: I would certainly be up for a massclaim.
Tiruin: That will have to wait until a later post, when I 'm not on my phone and I can actually post a wall of text. BTW I did manage to get one post in Day 1. It's not tge best but at least that's something, right?
What I will say for right now is that I agree with Hector that shakerag was most likely killed by non-cult scum. I don't think it's very likely that a cult leader would have a kill.
Teneb: Why are you so focused on a cult? I know that they've been common in supernatural games but the evidence seems to me to point elsewhere
Reverie: Assuming there is a non-cult scumteam, who would your top suspects be so far?
Post by: hector13 on October 06, 2017, 02:24:33 pm
hector: How would Shakerag being killed rule out a cult? How do you know the cult has no kills? Further, I see you going on and on about the kill, but not grilling anyone about it. Why would that be?
What? When did I say these things? Could fire that last shot at you too, bucko. Excepting this question, anyway...
I'm having trouble finding where I said things that could be twisted to look like I said that, too. I said I think, given the information at hand, that there's no cult, not that there definitely absolutely 100% isn't one. My mind is open to being changed. PPE: see later.
Also, all we're really doing now is going "well this makes me think that" and nobody is really doing anything. I was throwing in my two cents and pondering what to do with the not particularly useful information I did have, which I proceeded to disseminate to y'all.
NK analysis is a bit hit and miss anyway. Until about an hour ago, I didn't know much about Shake's kill beyond it happened. Could've been town, TP, or scum. We don't want to delve too much into a town kill, while a TP kill is interesting. Scum probably have a kill, otherwise they're going to have much trouble winning, though I haven't looked through the previous supernatural games with a cult yet to see how Meph dealt with conversions and kills.
PPE: in saying that, this was a role in the Semi-Bastard Supernatural:
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Hapah - You are a veteran Templar, your skills in hunting down the accursed Cults of the world honed by many battles against the dark forces of the world. You are immune to the seductive charms of the Cults, and cannot be converted by them. In addition, you may either attempt to Kill another player each night or Protect yourself from attack instead.
Seems likely there's a cult then heh.
However, it would seem quite excessive for them to have a convert and a kill. One or t'other, though I guess they could convert a killing role... that would be unpleasant.
Supernatural 8 had a non-converting cult, though. Could be dealing with that again.
Equally so, the Templar role could be a red herring. *shrugs* various games in which there has been a Vampire Hunter with no vampire.
I agree with Rev's conclusion of Shakerag's death being awfully ritualistic. Perhaps the baddies are building a golem, or are attempting to summon a vicious beasty and need various body parts, but that's flavour pondering and not necessarily all that useful.
PPE2: juicebox: where does the evidence point if not to a cult, in your opinion?
Post by: Teneb on October 06, 2017, 03:14:46 pm
Teneb: Why are you so focused on a cult? I know that they've been common in supernatural games but the evidence seems to me to point elsewhereAnd what, pray tell, does the evidence point to? It's all very nice to say "ur wrong" without saying why. Are you trying to divert attention from your cultist self?
What? When did I say these things? Could fire that last shot at you too, bucko. Excepting this question, anyway...unvote[/color]. It was mostly baseless stuff to see if you would actually slip. Pressure and so on.
Post by: hector13 on October 06, 2017, 03:29:30 pm
The moon is currently in Waning Gibbous Phase.
Meph: What does that mean for the moon's phase last night?
Post by: Mephansteras on October 06, 2017, 03:52:36 pm
The moon is currently in Waning Gibbous Phase.
Meph: What does that mean for the moon's phase last night?
Also Waning Gibbous.
Post by: Reverie on October 06, 2017, 03:55:05 pm
juicebox:
Reverie: I would certainly be up for a massclaim.
Even after what we've learned about the circumstances of Shake's death? Please elaborate.
Tiruin: That will have to wait until a later post, when I 'm not on my phone and I can actually post a wall of text. BTW I did manage to get one post in Day 1. It's not tge best but at least that's something, right?
No. A single rvs post from the start of the day is virtually nothing. You've been gone a week! The fact that you are such an unknown at this stage scares the shit out of me. I am seconding Tiruin's request for your reads.
Reverie: Assuming there is a non-cult scumteam, who would your top suspects be so far?
How would a non-cultist scumteam alter my reads at all? Right now I am torn between you being scum (through being absent the second half of yesterday, let me explain), and Teneb. Teneb was singled out on the mislynch, so either he voted on behalf of the scumteam to break the tie, or he's not scum and the scumteam curiously decided to sit on their hands. My theory is that the latter would be justified by a profound lack of activity, namely, yours.
Post by: hector13 on October 06, 2017, 05:06:48 pm
Post by: Reverie on October 06, 2017, 05:33:16 pm
Post by: hector13 on October 06, 2017, 06:16:27 pm
Teneb: Why are you so focused on a cult? I know that they've been common in supernatural games but the evidence seems to me to point elsewhereAnd what, pray tell, does the evidence point to? It's all very nice to say "ur wrong" without saying why. Are you trying to divert attention from your cultist self?What? When did I say these things? Could fire that last shot at you too, bucko. Excepting this question, anyway...unvote. It was mostly baseless stuff to see if you would actually slip. Pressure and so on.
So... you say you're looking for me to slip. Am I scum?
If so, why unvote?
If not, who is? Why does your effort stop when I dispute what you say?
Post by: hector13 on October 06, 2017, 06:25:15 pm
Actually if I'm not scum why are you putting the pressure on me?
If I am scum, was my stunning rhetoric enough to change your mind?
Post by: Tiruin on October 06, 2017, 08:02:59 pm
[...@_@ woah my cheese.
“Shakerag was, I believe, the one who ate BlackHeartKabal. He was a Ghoul, a sad soul cursed by some black magic to kill and eat others to survive. His death makes us all safer, but there is still the question of who managed to kill such a creature? He himself had his eyes and heart removed. For what reason I could not say. Regardless, I fear we are still all in great danger.”
Ok I didn't know that there were past Templars--searching the Mafia board with 'This board' and 'Templar' only gave a few results -.-
But I *DO* know that that kind of death details were present before. It isn't from werewolves at least, because they use claws (like Dopplegangers from Paranormal), but I'll be checking into this by browsing all them threads :O
At least we know we're not at the end of the week :P [/drum&cymbals]The moon is currently in Waning Gibbous Phase.
Meph: What does that mean for the moon's phase last night?
Also Waning Gibbous.
...So not really werewolves proven 2x.
Yeah I'm feeling its a cult kill, because those specific death portions mean a kidnapping and an extraction ._.
Err, do know that with a cult, cult CAN CONVERT AND KILL (at least through my Charismatic Cultist), and there WAS a post by Meph saying 'I thought this was already in there [same Supernatural as me being said cultist] but it wasn't now I guess all is known' o_Ohector: How would Shakerag being killed rule out a cult? How do you know the cult has no kills? Further, I see you going on and on about the kill, but not grilling anyone about it. Why would that be?
What? When did I say these things? Could fire that last shot at you too, bucko. Excepting this question, anyway...
I'm having trouble finding where I said things that could be twisted to look like I said that, too. I said I think, given the information at hand, that there's no cult, not that there definitely absolutely 100% isn't one. My mind is open to being changed. PPE: see later.
Also, all we're really doing now is going "well this makes me think that" and nobody is really doing anything. I was throwing in my two cents and pondering what to do with the not particularly useful information I did have, which I proceeded to disseminate to y'all.
NK analysis is a bit hit and miss anyway. Until about an hour ago, I didn't know much about Shake's kill beyond it happened. Could've been town, TP, or scum. We don't want to delve too much into a town kill, while a TP kill is interesting. Scum probably have a kill, otherwise they're going to have much trouble winning, though I haven't looked through the previous supernatural games with a cult yet to see how Meph dealt with conversions and kills.
PPE: in saying that, this was a role in the Semi-Bastard Supernatural:QuoteHapah - You are a veteran Templar, your skills in hunting down the accursed Cults of the world honed by many battles against the dark forces of the world. You are immune to the seductive charms of the Cults, and cannot be converted by them. In addition, you may either attempt to Kill another player each night or Protect yourself from attack instead.
Seems likely there's a cult then heh.
However, it would seem quite excessive for them to have a convert and a kill. One or t'other, though I guess they could convert a killing role... that would be unpleasant.
Supernatural 8 had a non-converting cult, though. Could be dealing with that again.
Equally so, the Templar role could be a red herring. *shrugs* various games in which there has been a Vampire Hunter with no vampire.
I agree with Rev's conclusion of Shakerag's death being awfully ritualistic. Perhaps the baddies are building a golem, or are attempting to summon a vicious beasty and need various body parts, but that's flavour pondering and not necessarily all that useful.
Ehh, either way, I do expect that there are unconventional roles not in the OP still alive--as that kind of kill details aren't conventional. Werebears or otherwise have more blunt force trauma and stuff. That was specific extracted-killyness.
...Although the organ harvester seems to be a similarity when you think about it that way :P I REALLY doubt Meph went and brought an ALIEN here.
...But why is a NK analysis hit and miss? In these kinds of games--you can directly infer that the kill was done by a specific party because Meph has flavors for those. Monster Hunter has mundane weaponry marks for example--sword or spear or halberd or etc. Vampires have blood suckyness. Mafia-versions of Town roles have the same kinds of kill marks (eg Knight = slashyslashy)
And furthermore, HOW did you not match Shakerag's marks on BHK when it explicitly said he ded?
Quote
“BlackHeartKabal, or what is left of him, seems to have been eaten. However, we should not mourn him too much. It seems, based on a series of tattoos still visible on his neck that he was a host for a Devil. No doubt here to cause mischief, or worse.”Other than the NPC High Priest saying stuff (which I don't recall has ever been designated that way before), Ghouls eat people.
PFP because AAAA EXAMS TODAY
Post by: Tiruin on October 06, 2017, 08:06:28 pm
To be fair the town allowed that by having 2/3 not voting. It should probably be embarrassing that two votes was enough to lynch someone on D1.o_o
"the town allowed [...]"
...That's some oddly specific wording there Hector.
Also timezones on my part :v but I felt O_o when reading all that. It did give off the indication that someone could quicklynch, till I woke up and saw that vote, and then saw many other people having posted really after that.
It is embarrassing in hindsight--but people were active while that hindsight was being done.
Post by: juicebox on October 07, 2017, 01:05:38 am
Teneb: Why are you so focused on a cult? I know that they've been common in supernatural games but the evidence seems to me to point elsewhereAnd what, pray tell, does the evidence point to? It's all very nice to say "ur wrong" without saying why. Are you trying to divert attention from your cultist self?
Well I would say that the evidence points to some non-cult scum out there. Flavorwise, it doesn't seem like Shakerag was killed by a townie, and the fact that nobody has claimed the kill seems to point in that direction also. Furthermore, based on past Supernatural games, I don't think the cult leader would have a kill. So it seems to me that there is some non-cultist scum out there, and that's who killed Shakerag.
However, I'm not voting you because I think you're wrong about there being a cult. I'm voting you because you won't even consider the possibility that there isn't a cult, even though a case can be made to the contrary.
It's a shame about the werewolf thing, I was actually kind of excited.
juicebox:Reverie: I would certainly be up for a massclaim.
Even after what we've learned about the circumstances of Shake's death? Please elaborate.
I think a massclaim either today or tomorrow could be a good idea. I think it may just provide enough information to tell us exactly who killed Shakerag and what we should next.
Tiruin: That will have to wait until a later post, when I 'm not on my phone and I can actually post a wall of text. BTW I did manage to get one post in Day 1. It's not tge best but at least that's something, right?
No. A single rvs post from the start of the day is virtually nothing. You've been gone a week! The fact that you are such an unknown at this stage scares the shit out of me. I am seconding Tiruin's request for your reads.
That is a valid concern.
Here are my reads so far:
hector13: Leaning town on hector. His disappointment in the town for not voting D1 seems townish to me, and he seems to be trying to help town
TheDarkStar: Null, not enough activity to get a good read
Teneb: My top scumpick. His jumping on the ATH mislynch is already suspicious, and his actions today only deepen my suspicions.
Reverie: Leaning town as well. Seems to be trying to help town
Tiruin: I want to say town, but I'm never totally sure about Tiruin. Null for right now
juicebox: Made with 100% juice
TDS: Can we have your thoughts on everything please?
Tiruin:
Err, do know that with a cult, cult CAN CONVERT AND KILL (at least through my Charismatic Cultist), and there WAS a post by Meph saying 'I thought this was already in there [same Supernatural as me being said cultist] but it wasn't now I guess all is known' o_O
Ehh, either way, I do expect that there are unconventional roles not in the OP still alive--as that kind of kill details aren't conventional. Werebears or otherwise have more blunt force trauma and stuff. That was specific extracted-killyness.
...Although the organ harvester seems to be a similarity when you think about it that way :P I REALLY doubt Meph went and brought an ALIEN here.
That being the case, it would seem possible that a cultist could have killed Shakerag. The thing that bothers me though, is why?
Post by: Tiruin on October 07, 2017, 05:15:35 am
What...idea of "cult" are you thinking about, juicy ? I doubt youd contradict yourself in the same post but thats an impression Im confusedly having when reading that to Teneb, and then that thing to me.Teneb: Why are you so focused on a cult? I know that they've been common in supernatural games but the evidence seems to me to point elsewhereAnd what, pray tell, does the evidence point to? It's all very nice to say "ur wrong" without saying why. Are you trying to divert attention from your cultist self?
Well I would say that the evidence points to some non-cult scum out there. Flavorwise, it doesn't seem like Shakerag was killed by a townie, and the fact that nobody has claimed the kill seems to point in that direction also. Furthermore, based on past Supernatural games, I don't think the cult leader would have a kill. So it seems to me that there is some non-cultist scum out there, and that's who killed Shakerag.
However, I'm not voting you because I think you're wrong about there being a cult. I'm voting you because you won't even consider the possibility that there isn't a cult, even though a case can be made to the contrary.
[...]
Tiruin:Err, do know that with a cult, cult CAN CONVERT AND KILL (at least through my Charismatic Cultist), and there WAS a post by Meph saying 'I thought this was already in there [same Supernatural as me being said cultist] but it wasn't now I guess all is known' o_O
Ehh, either way, I do expect that there are unconventional roles not in the OP still alive--as that kind of kill details aren't conventional. Werebears or otherwise have more blunt force trauma and stuff. That was specific extracted-killyness.
...Although the organ harvester seems to be a similarity when you think about it that way :P I REALLY doubt Meph went and brought an ALIEN here.
That being the case, it would seem possible that a cultist could have killed Shakerag. The thing that bothers me though, is why?
Also why would there be a why in mafia/cult killing someone o_O
If its a Cha.Cultist, theres the notion of "save dat convert for later!".
Oh and EVERYONE has posted--nobody claimed dibs on Shakerag (or his eyeballs), so I thus assume whoever killed Shakerag (or his eyeballs) is SCUM!
Dun dun duuunn...got my eye on that![/Imcorny]
Post by: Mephansteras on October 07, 2017, 11:20:47 am
juicebox: Reverie
Teneb: juicebox
TheDarkStar: Tiruin
Day ends ~5pm Pacific Monday
Post by: hector13 on October 07, 2017, 01:47:08 pm
NK analysis is a bit hit and miss anyway. Until about an hour ago, I didn't know much about Shake's kill beyond it happened. Could've been town, TP, or scum. We don't want to delve too much into a town kill, while a TP kill is interesting. Scum probably have a kill, otherwise they're going to have much trouble winning, though I haven't looked through the previous supernatural games with a cult yet to see how Meph dealt with conversions and kills.Err, do know that with a cult, cult CAN CONVERT AND KILL (at least through my Charismatic Cultist), and there WAS a post by Meph saying 'I thought this was already in there [same Supernatural as me being said cultist] but it wasn't now I guess all is known' o_O
PPE: in saying that, this was a role in the Semi-Bastard Supernatural:QuoteHapah - You are a veteran Templar, your skills in hunting down the accursed Cults of the world honed by many battles against the dark forces of the world. You are immune to the seductive charms of the Cults, and cannot be converted by them. In addition, you may either attempt to Kill another player each night or Protect yourself from attack instead.
Seems likely there's a cult then heh.
However, it would seem quite excessive for them to have a convert and a kill. One or t'other, though I guess they could convert a killing role... that would be unpleasant.
Supernatural 8 had a non-converting cult, though. Could be dealing with that again.
Equally so, the Templar role could be a red herring. *shrugs* various games in which there has been a Vampire Hunter with no vampire.
I agree with Rev's conclusion of Shakerag's death being awfully ritualistic. Perhaps the baddies are building a golem, or are attempting to summon a vicious beasty and need various body parts, but that's flavour pondering and not necessarily all that useful.
Ehh, either way, I do expect that there are unconventional roles not in the OP still alive--as that kind of kill details aren't conventional. Werebears or otherwise have more blunt force trauma and stuff. That was specific extracted-killyness.
...Although the organ harvester seems to be a similarity when you think about it that way :P I REALLY doubt Meph went and brought an ALIEN here.
I did mention the most recent Supernatural game had a cult which couldn't convert... so it depends what way he's going.
NK analysis is a bit hit and miss anyway. Until about an hour ago, I didn't know much about Shake's kill beyond it happened. Could've been town, TP, or scum. We don't want to delve too much into a town kill, while a TP kill is interesting. Scum probably have a kill, otherwise they're going to have much trouble winning, though I haven't looked through the previous supernatural games with a cult yet to see how Meph dealt with conversions and kills....But why is a NK analysis hit and miss? In these kinds of games--you can directly infer that the kill was done by a specific party because Meph has flavors for those. Monster Hunter has mundane weaponry marks for example--sword or spear or halberd or etc. Vampires have blood suckyness. Mafia-versions of Town roles have the same kinds of kill marks (eg Knight = slashyslashy)
And furthermore, HOW did you not match Shakerag's marks on BHK when it explicitly said he ded?Quote“BlackHeartKabal, or what is left of him, seems to have been eaten. However, we should not mourn him too much. It seems, based on a series of tattoos still visible on his neck that he was a host for a Devil. No doubt here to cause mischief, or worse.”Other than the NPC High Priest saying stuff (which I don't recall has ever been designated that way before), Ghouls eat people.
I know Shakerag ate BHK. I'm not sure how you thought I was confused about that...
Anyway, I also have misgivings about you kinda sorta taking what I said about NK analysis being hit or miss out of context. I explained my thoughts regarding NK analysis in the rest of that paragraph.
What you are positing as NK analysis - which I would define as "x player died during the night, who benefits and how?" - is actually flavour analysis. Given we've had a few players agree that the kill appears ritualistic, flavour analysis can be useful in figuring out what we're dealing with in a non-vanilla game like this.
To be fair the town allowed that by having 2/3 not voting. It should probably be embarrassing that two votes was enough to lynch someone on D1.o_o
"the town allowed [...]"
...That's some oddly specific wording there Hector.
I'd like to know what you mean here before responding to it.
I've been pondering over whether or not to reveal this tidbit, but I think it's probably a good idea for y'all to know there's at least one witch in the game. So far as I can tell, they've always been town-aligned in previous games, but that might just make Meph want to spice things up a bit by makin' 'em bad now.
Post by: hector13 on October 07, 2017, 01:49:05 pm
Part of me not wanting to reveal this is I don't want to distract us too much about talking about cults versus witches too much.
Please don't go into theorycrafting.
"well I think it's a cult because x!" "well I think you're an idiot it must be a coven because y!" doesn't really help us find scum.
Post by: juicebox on October 07, 2017, 02:50:33 pm
Errr...posting on phone so the snippy difficulty is present.What...idea of "cult" are you thinking about, juicy ? I doubt youd contradict yourself in the same post but thats an impression Im confusedly having when reading that to Teneb, and then that thing to me.Teneb: Why are you so focused on a cult? I know that they've been common in supernatural games but the evidence seems to me to point elsewhereAnd what, pray tell, does the evidence point to? It's all very nice to say "ur wrong" without saying why. Are you trying to divert attention from your cultist self?
Well I would say that the evidence points to some non-cult scum out there. Flavorwise, it doesn't seem like Shakerag was killed by a townie, and the fact that nobody has claimed the kill seems to point in that direction also. Furthermore, based on past Supernatural games, I don't think the cult leader would have a kill. So it seems to me that there is some non-cultist scum out there, and that's who killed Shakerag.
However, I'm not voting you because I think you're wrong about there being a cult. I'm voting you because you won't even consider the possibility that there isn't a cult, even though a case can be made to the contrary.
[...]
Tiruin:Err, do know that with a cult, cult CAN CONVERT AND KILL (at least through my Charismatic Cultist), and there WAS a post by Meph saying 'I thought this was already in there [same Supernatural as me being said cultist] but it wasn't now I guess all is known' o_O
Ehh, either way, I do expect that there are unconventional roles not in the OP still alive--as that kind of kill details aren't conventional. Werebears or otherwise have more blunt force trauma and stuff. That was specific extracted-killyness.
...Although the organ harvester seems to be a similarity when you think about it that way :P I REALLY doubt Meph went and brought an ALIEN here.
That being the case, it would seem possible that a cultist could have killed Shakerag. The thing that bothers me though, is why?
Also why would there be a why in mafia/cult killing someone o_O
If its a Cha.Cultist, theres the notion of "save dat convert for later!".
I guess the confusion arises because I typed up my response to Teneb before I saw your post about cult having a convert and a kill, but I decided not to change it.
As for me asking why the cultist would kill, it just seems like converting N1 would be the best option for a cultist.
Post by: TheDarkStar on October 07, 2017, 04:39:48 pm
TDS: Can we have your thoughts on everything please?
Sure. I'll post reads later but here are some responses and comments.
That being the case, it would seem possible that a cultist could have killed Shakerag. The thing that bothers me though, is why?
I'm curious what you think about this. Why does it bother you?
Everyone: thoughts on a mass roleclaim?
I'd be fine with it, I guess. Do you think it's scummy for someone to not be okay with it?
MMM :I I feel too cautious.
TheDarkStarMaybe Shakerag was a serial killer but BHK was one of the two(?) scum on a team. That assumes that there even is a scumteam, but it would make sense with ATH's flip - it kinda makes sense for a Templar to fight demons. I see this as more likely than having a two-man scumteam left because that would mean that almost half the starting players were scum. (we know there isn't a three-man scum team still out there because otherwise the game would be over by now, barring vigilantes/more 3Ps). It's also possible that we started with three mutually opposed third parties and there's one left. Either way, we probably have one scum left.One of the Twoscum?
How is there not a scumteam? (I'm assuming you mean Mafia team)
And considering the flips, what is your take of the surviving set of probably roles? Not to give off the impression of fishing--as I'm also thinking that roleclaiming would be a good idea either today or tomorrow given how...6/9 may feel like LYLO if at least 2 are non-town/malevolent to town, but to share my own ideas, I think this is a delicately power heavy game.
Like the example of the factional NK of Mafia/Cult (Yes cult had that, see my link. I captured/stabbed people, and can only do that or Charismatically-convert ._.; I mean I'm assuming the same here but!), in which today would've had at least 2 deaths.
Problem is the Ghoul killed the Devil; NO details are to the Ghoul-death (waiting on you Meph) :P
And yeah I said there was an RNG bot, but there seems to be some structured reasoning to what you said there--and I'm following it up with my own.
Since we had two people flip what seemed to be unaligned evil third parties, I was assuming that we had at most 1 more scum, since it seems unlikely that almost half the starting players were scum. Hence there's either no scumteam and there's just one evil 3P left or one of the dead players is part of a two-man scumteam. I guess there could still be a scumteam but I'd be surprised.
re: roles: probably 1-2 investigative, since that's normal. At least one evil killing role. At least one role that either protects other people or is normally unkillable, given the ghoul flip. Possibly more? And that's 3-5 of the remaining roles. There's... probably not another vig, since we already had one die. If there was anything really esoteric we'd probably have heard about it by now. All in all, though, there's not much to go off of here and the same logic would apply to most role-heay games with 3/9 people dead. Why do you want to know?
Do you think it's LYLO? Do you think it's MYLO (which it is if there are still two scum left)?
I've been pondering over whether or not to reveal this tidbit, but I think it's probably a good idea for y'all to know there's at least one witch in the game. So far as I can tell, they've always been town-aligned in previous games, but that might just make Meph want to spice things up a bit by makin' 'em bad now.
In previous games there have always been at least two witches who share a quickchat. Do you think that's true for this game too?
Post by: hector13 on October 07, 2017, 07:08:57 pm
There could be more than one witch. There might not be *shrugs* I know there's at least one, and given the current theories regarding the scum, felt it would be useful for folk to know.
Kinda defeats the purpose of being witches if you're the scum team though... you already get a quicktopic.
Not really sure what you hope to glean from my response though. I might be a witch going for a double bluff, but if I was, what would I gain from revealing that the role exists?
Kinda curious what they're saying in the quicktopic if there is a coven though.
Not sure about you, manny. You've been quite reactive in your play so far. Looking forward to that reads list.
Post by: Tiruin on October 07, 2017, 11:09:23 pm
[...]Oh ._.
What you are positing as NK analysis - which I would define as "x player died during the night, who benefits and how?" - is actually flavour analysis. Given we've had a few players agree that the kill appears ritualistic, flavour analysis can be useful in figuring out what we're dealing with in a non-vanilla game like this.
Thanks! And to the everything above that paragraph too.
[...]I'd like to know what you thought before responding to what I thought :PTo be fair the town allowed that by having 2/3 not voting. It should probably be embarrassing that two votes was enough to lynch someone on D1.o_o
"the town allowed [...]"
...That's some oddly specific wording there Hector.
I'd like to know what you mean here before responding to it.
I've been pondering over whether or not to reveal this tidbit, but I think it's probably a good idea for y'all to know there's at least one witch in the game. So far as I can tell, they've always been town-aligned in previous games, but that might just make Meph want to spice things up a bit by makin' 'em bad now.
But in all seriousness--one big part of that thought was 'ok why did Hector say Town when there's like, only 2 out of 9 voting? Does that mean something about what he thought about the voters?"
So it's more query and assumed suspicion :V
...Also is that softclaiming @_@ Muuuuch like me saying 'yo dudes my role is in the OP, yo!'
Because I'm unsure WHY YOU WOULD OUT A POSSIBLE MASON TEAM.
EBWOPYou saying Witches can be associated with that kill flavor? :V
Part of me not wanting to reveal this is I don't want to distract us too much about talking about cults versus witches too much.
Please don't go into theorycrafting.
"well I think it's a cult because x!" "well I think you're an idiot it must be a coven because y!" doesn't really help us find scum.
BEcause that's what makes people talk. Stuff pertinent to scum.
And it kinda doesn't help for you to say 'hey there may be this one dude', and then go 'let's not talk about that one dude please? :<'
Because I see it as okay to do so. Because it kinda makes me feel a bit more confident in my role. :P
There hasn't always been a coven when a witch is present, there have been lone witches. Maybe once, anyway. I'm reasonably sure that the witches in some games weren't even PRs, beyond the quicktopic.Oh.
Oooooh.
Yeah these existed in past Supernatural games. I forgot where but there were lone covens, and they were all benevolent or-non-malevolent witches.
What made YEW bring that topic up though @_@
I'm feeling MYLO-ish, but to give a note (and perhaps bait :3 because I like bait, because nobody knows my role but meeee) is that I don't think scum can win with me still aliveTDS: Can we have your thoughts on everything please?
Sure. I'll post reads later but here are some responses and comments.That being the case, it would seem possible that a cultist could have killed Shakerag. The thing that bothers me though, is why?
I'm curious what you think about this. Why does it bother you?Everyone: thoughts on a mass roleclaim?
I'd be fine with it, I guess. Do you think it's scummy for someone to not be okay with it?[...]
Since we had two people flip what seemed to be unaligned evil third parties, I was assuming that we had at most 1 more scum, since it seems unlikely that almost half the starting players were scum. Hence there's either no scumteam and there's just one evil 3P left or one of the dead players is part of a two-man scumteam. I guess there could still be a scumteam but I'd be surprised.
re: roles: probably 1-2 investigative, since that's normal. At least one evil killing role. At least one role that either protects other people or is normally unkillable, given the ghoul flip. Possibly more? And that's 3-5 of the remaining roles. There's... probably not another vig, since we already had one die. If there was anything really esoteric we'd probably have heard about it by now. All in all, though, there's not much to go off of here and the same logic would apply to most role-heay games with 3/9 people dead. Why do you want to know?
Do you think it's LYLO? Do you think it's MYLO (which it is if there are still two scum left)?
But in all seriousness, I feel its MYLO-dependent-on-role-abilities at this point; if 2 scum and 4 town, or third-party mix.
If 1 scum, most likely the Cha. Cultist which I haven't given up the assumption of, that means tomorrow can likely be a 2 scum thing but tonight being a really important thing.
Either way its less of a day vote thing, and more of "LYLO or MYLO based on presumption of power", which still leads me to thinking MYLO, despite the ones dead being wholly third-party and one Templar.
Quote
re: roles: probably 1-2 investigative, since that's normal. At least one evil killing role. At least one role that either protects other people or is normally unkillable, given the ghoul flip. Possibly more? And that's 3-5 of the remaining roles. There's... probably not another vig, since we already had one die. If there was anything really esoteric we'd probably have heard about it by now. All in all, though, there's not much to go off of here and the same logic would apply to most role-heay games with 3/9 people dead. Why do you want to know?Because this points to action-networking later on when massclaim comes :P
Post by: hector13 on October 08, 2017, 01:13:50 am
[...]I'd like to know what you thought before responding to what I thought :PTo be fair the town allowed that by having 2/3 not voting. It should probably be embarrassing that two votes was enough to lynch someone on D1.o_o
"the town allowed [...]"
...That's some oddly specific wording there Hector.
I'd like to know what you mean here before responding to it.
I've been pondering over whether or not to reveal this tidbit, but I think it's probably a good idea for y'all to know there's at least one witch in the game. So far as I can tell, they've always been town-aligned in previous games, but that might just make Meph want to spice things up a bit by makin' 'em bad now.
But in all seriousness--one big part of that thought was 'ok why did Hector say Town when there's like, only 2 out of 9 voting? Does that mean something about what he thought about the voters?"
So it's more query and assumed suspicion :V
...Also is that softclaiming @_@ Muuuuch like me saying 'yo dudes my role is in the OP, yo!'
Because I'm unsure WHY YOU WOULD OUT A POSSIBLE MASON TEAM.
More or less on the softclaim. Then again, everybody has something to claim, so read into that what you will *shrug*
They're a possible scum team too, cha know :P
Also, when I said town in regards to town letting the scum get away with potentially not voting on D1, I meant the town faction (we know one of them was voting, Teneb is maybe town too) and the town at large (all the players) 'cause there was pretty much nobody voting.
I guess I'm leaning on Teneb being town, despite the vote looking super opportunistic.
EBWOPYou saying Witches can be associated with that kill flavor? :V
Part of me not wanting to reveal this is I don't want to distract us too much about talking about cults versus witches too much.
Please don't go into theorycrafting.
"well I think it's a cult because x!" "well I think you're an idiot it must be a coven because y!" doesn't really help us find scum.
BEcause that's what makes people talk. Stuff pertinent to scum.
And it kinda doesn't help for you to say 'hey there may be this one dude', and then go 'let's not talk about that one dude please? :<'
Because I see it as okay to do so. Because it kinda makes me feel a bit more confident in my role. :P
Well I didn't mean not to discuss it, more that I'd rather we not focus on whether this means it's a cult or the witch as scum. That doesn't tell us who is the baddy.
There hasn't always been a coven when a witch is present, there have been lone witches. Maybe once, anyway. I'm reasonably sure that the witches in some games weren't even PRs, beyond the quicktopic.Oh.
Oooooh.
Yeah these existed in past Supernatural games. I forgot where but there were lone covens, and they were all benevolent or-non-malevolent witches.
What made YEW bring that topic up though @_@
TDS made the point that witches always come in multiples and in covens, whereas that isn't actually the case.
I'm personally working under the opinion that there's one scum left, and whether or not it's the witch is the issue, I guess.
Post by: Reverie on October 09, 2017, 04:03:17 am
- Tiruin feels confident about her ability against the baddies and tells us so
- hector by some means or another has gleaned that we have a witch in this setup
Regarding the first point, I'm not exactly sure what to make of this, except that it's bold and polarises my read of you. We have yet to decide whether we are claiming today or not, yet you undermine the downside of claiming immediately (i.e. giving scum a target) by insinuating that you are critical to town's success. It's a bold strategy that urges everyone to make up their mind about you right now. I'm torn between your statement being bait for scum (to want to target you) or bait for town (to flag you as essential). Why this timing, Tiruin?
As to the second point, I don't trust witches too much. I'm not above thinking that we might have a witch-y scumteam that might have need for eyes and hearts for something sinister. This push for the idea that we have a cult scumteam could very well be trying to direct us away from the witch idea, but it's nothing concrete.
Everyone: thoughts on a mass roleclaim?
I'd be fine with it, I guess. Do you think it's scummy for someone to not be okay with it?
Not in a vacuum, no. Town doesn't have very many options in their disposal as far as organisation, and sharing claims to get their bearings is probably chief among them. At this point I think it's a question of how many nights we give ourselves for individual snooping before we compare notes and put ourselves at the mercy of the scumteam thereafter.
Post by: hector13 on October 09, 2017, 08:11:54 am
Still waiting to hear TDS’ reads list and Teneb’s response to my befuddlement.
Post by: Reverie on October 09, 2017, 08:36:47 am
Post by: Mephansteras on October 09, 2017, 09:40:39 am
Teneb: juicebox
TheDarkStar: Tiruin
Tiruin: Reverie
Day has been Extended to ~5pm Pacific Tuesday. One possible extension remains for this day.
Post by: juicebox on October 09, 2017, 02:19:05 pm
Post by: Teneb on October 09, 2017, 03:16:50 pm
Teneb’s response to my befuddlement.I already responded. It was pure pressure to see if you would slip, trying to see if you had any feelings of guilt. That I unvoted your should tell you that I think you are possibly town now.
Post by: hector13 on October 09, 2017, 03:38:57 pm
I mean, there’s a lot going on with that interaction. Afterward you said that you had wanted to see me slip (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7585371#msg7585371), and you just said you see me as Town now, both of which heavily imply I was your top scumpick when you asked me those questions.
You quoted the first paragraph of my response (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7585334#msg7585334) which was basically me accusing you of the same things you were accusing me, apparently ignoring the rest of it. How did that pretty basic response convince you I was not scum?
I can’t really be bothered reading the thread again. Using my phone and it’s all weird and shit after I updated it. How many scum (n) do you think there are left, and whatever number you choose, give me n+1 as your top scumpicks and, n town picks, preferably with citations.
Post by: juicebox on October 09, 2017, 05:14:22 pm
Post by: Teneb on October 09, 2017, 06:09:16 pm
I mean, there’s a lot going on with that interaction. Afterward you said that you had wanted to see me slip (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7585371#msg7585371), and you just said you see me as Town now, both of which heavily imply I was your top scumpick when you asked me those questions.You were not my top scumpick. At that point I had no real top scumpick because of the shit activity of D1. I can't just form a read from a scant few posts. So I decided to be bold and do bullshit to see how you reacted. And to me, you reacted as town. That is it.
Post by: hector13 on October 09, 2017, 08:05:06 pm
Post by: Teneb on October 09, 2017, 08:24:22 pm
Psst. You forgot your scum and town picks.It'll have to wait until tomorrow when I'm not dead tired and have time to do a re-read.
Post by: Reverie on October 10, 2017, 11:06:03 am
TDS: you're operating under the assumption that there is only one scum this game, right? That is, considering balance reasons versus the third party flips so far. What are your thoughts on the presence of a witch? Do you think a one-person scumteam, witch or otherwise, would have fairly reasonable win chances if said scumteam wasn't the recruiting type?
Post by: Tiruin on October 10, 2017, 12:15:17 pm
In which Tiri spends a few days outside of internets because of various reasons which make her grumpy :I In a nice way.
But aurgh I missed everything T_T Thanks for the extend!
Okay, so skimming over the weekend's content, most of what I am picking up is thatHum o-o
- Tiruin feels confident about her ability against the baddies and tells us so
- hector by some means or another has gleaned that we have a witch in this setup
Regarding the first point, I'm not exactly sure what to make of this, except that it's bold and polarises my read of you. We have yet to decide whether we are claiming today or not, yet you undermine the downside of claiming immediately (i.e. giving scum a target) by insinuating that you are critical to town's success. It's a bold strategy that urges everyone to make up their mind about you right now. I'm torn between your statement being bait for scum (to want to target you) or bait for town (to flag you as essential). Why this timing, Tiruin?
How did you think about me when I said what I said, in relation to the context of the present?
I didn't push that I'm central or critical to town's success, merely putting myself in the light because its part of my motive (...in that I'm subtly indirectly saying 'Town can also target me if they want o_O because yeah there's distrust out of safety, but I'd not like that to happen because it'll be very inefficient'), but I do not see how all that should be linked with a downside of claiming immediately...when there's a lot more than 'giving scum a target'
Yea, one way to take it is to urge others to make up their mind about me--but what isn't? As in, anything anyone does at this point is on making points on other people; I am more pushing my confidence...err, out. There. For scrutiny :D
And no, I do not need guards. I do guards! [/notclaimingGuardseriously]
I don't get how timing works into a scumplan there, but in retrospect in thinking out that viewpoint you gave, I did think that it would be a bold move of a 1-man scumteam [I'm assuming the Cha.Cultist theory], or if a 2-man scumteam, a redirection while the ally works in the dark--inasfar as I assume, that could be possible too given the activity of others around here in general but its not something I'm leaning more on at the moment. <_<
Also because Hector somehow said something about Witches. I did not comment on that because I was all :o and then silently leaned on 'okaaay that's weird. He's a witch most likely'.
And as far as I read back (didn't check all Soupernaturals, just some), all I recall are good Mason-ic Witches being present.
@Reverie At this point I would say a D3 massclaim would probably be good.Yoooo, what about other ideas from you? I find myself somewhat agreeing with Rev's pressure vote, as you're not contributing much in the day game? :-\
I'm partly wondering if it's busyness though, as you extended...after Meph extended the game.
I can’t really be bothered reading the thread again. Using my phone and it’s all weird and shit after I updated it. How many scum (n) do you think there are left, and whatever number you choose, give me n+1 as your top scumpicks and, n town picks, preferably with citations.While I know that pain of phones and browsers, I doubt that there is much difficulty reading ~5 pages :P
While on the phone the page numbers can be really tiny, they're not wholly incapable of being pressed :O
In relation to your softyclaim of Witchery, how do you think the others here are?
Post by: Reverie on October 10, 2017, 01:31:25 pm
I don't get how timing works into a scumplan there, but in retrospect in thinking out that viewpoint you gave, I did think that it would be a bold move of a 1-man scumteam [I'm assuming the Cha.Cultist theory], or if a 2-man scumteam, a redirection while the ally works in the dark--inasfar as I assume, that could be possible too given the activity of others around here in general but its not something I'm leaning more on at the moment. <_<
I should first clarify that I don't believe that we have just one mafioso, I felt we ruled that out the moment Shakerag's killer never came forward (hence no cha. cultist).
How did you think about me when I said what I said, in relation to the context of the present?
And no, I do not need guards. I do guards! [/notclaimingGuardseriously]
To alleviate any confusion, here is the particular snippet in question that stood out to me:
I'm feeling MYLO-ish, but to give a note (and perhaps bait :3 because I like bait, because nobody knows my role but meeee) is that I don't think scum can win with me still alive
And yes, in reference to the quote above, I wouldn't believe a guard would just go out and say they were a guard (they can't protect themself). Offering yourself as bait does little more but sabotage any actual chances of you surprising anyone who is targetting you, for no reason. I would figure that this would be something to claim after you've been targetted to corroborate night stuffs, hence the confusion about timing. Now I am worried that if you are scum, and have an ability to complicate night actions against you (there was a templar to warrant such a thing, but he's dead!), voting for you now would be a quagmire of WIFOM and now we're in a pickle. Am I overthinking this?
Post by: TheDarkStar on October 10, 2017, 02:25:51 pm
I was going to wait for Tiruin's response (or maybe the reads of TDS or Teneb), but this silence is pushing it. Extending again just in case. Please let's try to not have a repeat of yesterday.
TDS: you're operating under the assumption that there is only one scum this game, right? That is, considering balance reasons versus the third party flips so far. What are your thoughts on the presence of a witch? Do you think a one-person scumteam, witch or otherwise, would have fairly reasonable win chances if said scumteam wasn't the recruiting type?
There might be a single witch (and it was pointed out that there have been single witches before). One single one-person scumteam might not win, but we have had two one-man scumteams flip (I count BHKp as one because adding to chaos + killing 3 people if enough time passes is not town-aligned) and a third one would be reasonable too. It's possible that a scum win would have involved 2 living evil third parties at the end with some town alive to decide which one wins. I think that a one-person scumteam would have a reasonable chance of winning - see Shakerag's ghoul flip, which appears to have been a one-man scumteam (although for all I know there could be a second ghoul). I just don't see it as likely that 4/9 of the starting players were scum.
Reads (based on reading through the thread):
Spoiler: hector13 - actions so far: (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Teneb - actions so far: (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Reverie - actions so far: (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Tiruin - actions so far: (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: juicebox - actions so far: (click to show/hide)
So overall:
hector13 - mildly scummy for day 1 suspicion-without-voting, pressures Teneb today for stuff. Mild scum lean, but that might switch to a town lean by the end of the day.
Teneb - I read his day 1 vote as town-oriented, but his play today has been odd. Mild scum lean (but more than hector) because he seems to be assuming things, also not much scumhunting. This could change based on what he does today.
Reverie - Not much substance until recently. Suggested a massclaim and has started to pressure people for stuff, but I want to see more. Mildly scummy (roughly tied with Teneb).
Tiruin - Lots of content but it's mostly theory. Possibly active-lurking/avoiding scumhunting? Moderately scummy.
juicebox - Essentially inactive day 1. Has good, well-reasoned posts day 2 but doesn't have much content in general. Mild town lean, but this could change with more content.
hector: reads?
Teneb: Reads? What makes you think there's a cult?
Reverie: Reads? Specifically, what do you think of juicebox and Teneb now?
Tiruin: I'd like to see your reads. Who do you find scummy? Do you still think me and juicebox are scummy?
juicebox: What is your current take on the day? Have any of your reads changed?
EBWOP:
I don't get how timing works into a scumplan there, but in retrospect in thinking out that viewpoint you gave, I did think that it would be a bold move of a 1-man scumteam [I'm assuming the Cha.Cultist theory], or if a 2-man scumteam, a redirection while the ally works in the dark--inasfar as I assume, that could be possible too given the activity of others around here in general but its not something I'm leaning more on at the moment. <_<
I should first clarify that I don't believe that we have just one mafioso, I felt we ruled that out the moment Shakerag's killer never came forward (hence no cha. cultist).
I don't quite follow your reasoning. If there was a single scum, why would they claim killing Shakerag?
Post by: Mephansteras on October 10, 2017, 03:04:19 pm
Teneb: juicebox
TheDarkStar: Tiruin
Tiruin: Reverie, TheDarkStar
Day has been Extended to ~5pm Pacific Wednesday. There are no more possible extensions for this day.
Post by: Reverie on October 10, 2017, 03:23:18 pm
As for my argument against a single person scumteam, I equate those to conversion style teams, which judging by the lack of evidence supporting Shakerag's death as not a mafia nightkill, would squarely place the scumteam out of the realm of the conversion type. It's assumed that they can't kill and convert on the same night, after all.
Post by: Tiruin on October 10, 2017, 10:50:13 pm
[...Eww that's weak -_- "Mostly active lurking" WHEN I BASICALLY SAID I WAS AWAY FOR TWO DAYS.
Tiruin - Lots of content but it's mostly theory. Possibly active-lurking/avoiding scumhunting? Moderately scummy.
juicebox - Essentially inactive day 1. Has good, well-reasoned posts day 2 but doesn't have much content in general. Mild town lean, but this could change with more content.
hector: reads?
Teneb: Reads? What makes you think there's a cult?
Reverie: Reads? Specifically, what do you think of juicebox and Teneb now?
Tiruin: I'd like to see your reads. Who do you find scummy? Do you still think me and juicebox are scummy?
I gave bloody dang reads on how active people were--with Rev topping it out and others not even touching that level of quality. I am basically stating as such like before that I cannot particularly detect scum leaning attitudes as I have felt, much like before, that they're being covert. Which is really feeling like the case at present :I
And yes I do :P With the subtlety in present, I am looking at Reverie as Towny, Hector as totally weird but it would be strange to claim Witch with...no direction thereafter, as it prsents heat and focus, that which would be fully detrimental to a Witch-Mason team (if there's any other Witch team, please boop me--I've got Midterms for my Masters literally today, and on Saturday; today in the next 6 hours, AND I'M NOT BLOODY 'ACTIVE LURKING' :I)
That partially nudges me that you're looking for an easy target with those kinds of accusations you're putting out; when in doubt, accuse of lurking.
Especially if you go the middleman in trying to gauge some 'scummy' reads when you don't have substance to back it up.
It is FURTHER a contrary note that you label my actions as 'theorycrafting', when I've been pretty much placing the notion of what roles exist therein. We're at a 6 player team, WHOLLY DIFFERENT than if people assume 'oh vanilla 2 scum in 9 person game' as we've got 2 THIRD PARTIES down, that ADJUSTS my variance of scum from 2 to 1, with possibility making a charismatic cultist--REGARDLESS of the Templar flip (the Templar flip made me consider the Cha. Cultist being a possibility a bit more, but I've had hunches because of thinking 'okay, 6 out of 9, 1 town dead, 2 Third parties dead; Shakerag died because people got his eyes and other sensory organs, no sign of Monster Hunter, no sign of Were-attack; OBVIOUSLY scum')
So it is weird that people are assuming Shakerag died to anything BUT scum.
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Reverie - Not much substance until recently. Suggested a massclaim and has started to pressure people for stuff, but I want to see more. Mildly scummy (roughly tied with Teneb).Wow seriously :v
She was the one prodding literally everyone till D1.
You getting your reads from a biased source of the recency effect, or what?
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hector13 - mildly scummy for day 1 suspicion-without-voting, pressures Teneb today for stuff. Mild scum lean, but that might switch to a town lean by the end of the day.Yeaaaaa how.
That doesn't match with Reverie's quality, and his 'switch town lean' isn't anywhere detailed in your post.
And you blue'd those two people! The OTHER TWO HOWEVER have less posts and less quality--and yet you don't touch them with a FoS, and leave them with the SAME 'mild scum lean'.
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juicebox - Essentially inactive day 1. Has good, well-reasoned posts day 2 but doesn't have much content in general. Mild town lean, but this could change with more content....Oh wow, I'm reading juicebox's posts! They TOTALLY LACK A LOT IN THEM!
This is some good, well-reasoned posts there. Inactive (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7578627#msg7578627) D1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7578908#msg7578908); total of 2 posts. D (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7585320#msg7585320)ay (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7585775#msg7585775) two (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7586198#msg7586198) has (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7587718#msg7587718) five (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7587850#msg7587850), and I see a lack of 'well reasoned' in contrast to ALL OF OURS, being present. Unless you mean commonly reasoned, because people would clearly think 'oh okay, cha. cultist can convert N1, that's possible'.
AND YET HE IS WRONG WITH DETAILS IF PEOPLE READ BACK!
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Well I would say that the evidence points to some non-cult scum out there. Flavorwise, it doesn't seem like Shakerag was killed by a townie, and the fact that nobody has claimed the kill seems to point in that direction also. Furthermore, based on past Supernatural games, I don't think the cult leader would have a kill. So it seems to me that there is some non-cultist scum out there, and that's who killed Shakerag.> See: Supernatural 8. ANY CULT MEMBER CAN KILL.
If you mean a Cult Leader, See Supernatural 6; Tiruin as Charismatic Cultist (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131512.msg4781985#msg4781985), I killed people :I
And, I have to explicitly mention--unless juicebox was referring to SOMETHING ELSE ABOUT CULTS, I have to mention that asking flavor is important and not """theorycrafting""", I killed Cmega3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131512.msg4762196#msg4762196) in Night 2, people were curious how she died, I stole the body (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131512.msg4762984#msg4762984) as mentioned in the N2 results. And while it was mentioned I used a bloody axe, while skipping merrily over to Jim's home in N3, have consistent flavor. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131512.msg4775529#msg4775529)
If you can say 'juicebox' is 'well reasoned', his reason is out the window in the cold, dark night.
And thus reinforcing that YOU aren't doing your READING either.
Unless you can back that up--correct me like a gentleman,
OK :II don't get how timing works into a scumplan there, but in retrospect in thinking out that viewpoint you gave, I did think that it would be a bold move of a 1-man scumteam [I'm assuming the Cha.Cultist theory], or if a 2-man scumteam, a redirection while the ally works in the dark--inasfar as I assume, that could be possible too given the activity of others around here in general but its not something I'm leaning more on at the moment. <_<
I should first clarify that I don't believe that we have just one mafioso, I felt we ruled that out the moment Shakerag's killer never came forward (hence no cha. cultist).
How?
You cannot rule out the LACK of a cha. cultist when their abilities match that of scum cultists (the vanilla type), or that of a generic mafia team that are cultists-in-flavor. The Charismatic Cultist merely has their ability of conversion prettymuch BEING the nightkill (see, that game I linked. I could only convert Toasty, while the others couldn't kill)
Because if SHakerag's killer came forward--in this 6 player setup, we'd have pretty much one OUTED killer. That leaves 5.
I am not a bloody killer, that leaves 4. (TAKE THIS NOTE EVEN IF YOU DOUBT IT :I I am not claiming a killing role, I am claiming an OP role)
Then there's a Witch claimant, that leaves 3 or 2, considering Witches are Masons and that's usually their only ability (again people poke me please).
And in that 3-2 people remaining, I get accused of 'theorycrafting' when people are rather softclaiming outwards in a way to glean information for those astute enough to follow those tracks .___.
So tell me, HOW is there, in anyway, some kind of superfluous nature in people claiming what they're claiming?
As for my argument against a single person scumteam, I equate those to conversion style teams, which judging by the lack of evidence supporting Shakerag's death as not a mafia nightkill, would squarely place the scumteam out of the realm of the conversion type. It's assumed that they can't kill and convert on the same night, after all.We've got a whole library of Supernatural. Despite my horrible net, nobody else tried to track and match the flavor of said kill.
What I have seen in cult-like games where Mafia is flavored as cult (with no conversion powers)--decapitation or otherwise. Supernatural 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=150876.msg6279884#msg6279884); "cult" team, origamiscienceguy, roo, spruce (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=150876.msg6360396;topicseen#msg6360396), killed ToonyMan N1, birdy21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=150876.msg6302953#msg6302953) N2, and a consistent flavor since then.
Meph does not make unconsistent flavor because that messes with the regularity of details that are otherwise confidential anyway.
People put up the idea of "theorycrafting" (sounding like a mudslinging word), as if there's anything with it--then there's a lack of detail SUPPORTING why that, in this current context, makes a scummy mark.
I do not agree with you on the ghoul being actual scum though, more on that later.I disagree with a Ghoul being scum too :P given that I won a game as one, and decided to be good scum.
But there lies the problem--Ghouls win if everyone else is eaten :( [that kinda bothered me back then in that game--but I managed to win with the last scummy werewolf :P, because he decided to trust me \o/ ...I forgot the name and am trying to look for it, but it was nice... <_>]
Post by: Tiruin on October 10, 2017, 10:52:22 pm
Post by: Tiruin on October 10, 2017, 11:15:53 pm
The eye and heart thing is SOMETHING familiar but perhaps not in the Supernatural list--still checking; out of the 3ish cult games (THERE WAS NO CONVERSION CULT AND A MAFIA FACTION AT THE SAME TIME BY THE FISHY WAY, so I am suspect of Juicebox' intel, unless he's meta'ing "cult" from other games not-Supernatural), none have made it apparent that upon new-day, the body is FOUND and LACKING stuff.
...I really do recall that kind of flavor somewhere :I
<_< Maybe it was me as an Organ Grinder in Paranormal.
Post by: juicebox on October 11, 2017, 03:11:31 am
snip
Damn you guys brought out the feisty Tiruin. I haven't seen her like this since witches coven 3.
Honestly though, I'm not sure I agree at all with TDS' reads list. Reverie, Hector and Tiruin all seem pretty townish to me.
Although thinking about it more and more, most cult-kills in public view are the disappearance type, with loss of body parts later on >_>
The eye and heart thing is SOMETHING familiar but perhaps not in the Supernatural list--still checking; out of the 3ish cult games (THERE WAS NO CONVERSION CULT AND A MAFIA FACTION AT THE SAME TIME BY THE FISHY WAY, so I am suspect of Juicebox' intel, unless he's meta'ing "cult" from other games not-Supernatural), none have made it apparent that upon new-day, the body is FOUND and LACKING stuff.
...I really do recall that kind of flavor somewhere :I
<_< Maybe it was me as an Organ Grinder in Paranormal.
When did I imply that there were both cultists and regular mafia? I don't remember saying anything to that effect. Also, I am "meta'ing" cults from other games. In my experience, cults don't get kills, and they didn't get kills in the Supernaturals that I read.
Post by: Teneb on October 11, 2017, 04:35:05 am
My reads, such as they are:
hector13: leaning town
TheDarkStar: neutral
Reverie: leaning town
Tiruin: leaning scum
juicebox: neutral
Also, I don't think there's a cult. I know there's a cult. It's also possible that Shakerag was actual scum, but I am not sure of that.
I'll elaborate on some later. If anyone wants an explanation for a specific one, say it.
I can, at least, elaborate on why Tiruin now: She keeps softclaiming over and over without actually making it meaningful by actually claiming. Saying "oh, my role is in the OP" is useless without an actual claim and what action she took to go with it. It just looks like "Hey guys, look at how town I am!". Also, while I am 100% sure there is a cult of some sort, she does keep going on and on about charismatic cultists. Sure, she was one in previous games, but her insistence on that particular variation of cultist is strange. I don't think she's actually a charismatic cultist, but rather that it is an attempt to throw us off about what this cult can actually do. So Tiruin.
Post by: Tiruin on October 11, 2017, 06:29:53 am
YOU HAVE FORCED MY HAND! TIME TO BRING OUT THE HOT SAUCE D:<snip
Damn you guys brought out the feisty Tiruin. I haven't seen her like this since witches coven 3.
But yeah, I appreciate this comment c:
Oh, and for real reeds, here's some of them. In nominal order descending from okayness and towniness, not ordinal--but if you want to see them in ordinal, apply not-really-significant-variance in their ordinal value then :P
Reverie: leaning town
juicebox: leaning okay
hector13: leaning ahum!
Tiruin: LEANING FIESTY
Teneb: leaning leaning I:
TheDarkStar: leaning MHMM :I
Extend
Also, I don't think there's a cult. I know there's a cult. It's also possible that Shakerag was actual scum, but I am not sure of that.How's about you elaborate on it NOW other than asking if others want a specific explanation than buying time :I
I'll elaborate on some later. If anyone wants an explanation for a specific one, say it.
I can, at least, elaborate on why Tiruin now: She keeps softclaiming over and over without actually making it meaningful by actually claiming. Saying "oh, my role is in the OP" is useless without an actual claim and what action she took to go with it. It just looks like "Hey guys, look at how town I am!". Also, while I am 100% sure there is a cult of some sort, she does keep going on and on about charismatic cultists. Sure, she was one in previous games, but her insistence on that particular variation of cultist is strange. I don't think she's actually a charismatic cultist, but rather that it is an attempt to throw us off about what this cult can actually do. So Tiruin.
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She keeps softclaiming over and over without actually making it meaningful by actually claiming.Ooo it's like this is a scummy thing :V
"Hey dudes! Out of y'all 5 folks, I am this kinda person! :3"
It's like this is scummy.
It's like despite saying over and over oooooo softclaiming, y'all can't be more specific than that and conditioned assumptions.
I mean from hereon forth, Hector has more detail than I even brought out. Because he said stuff about Witches. -_-
But after that quoted sentence, I see NOTHING of substance backing up the point A of 'this person doing this', and the point B of 'this person is considerably scum by due reasoning'.
It's like there's implicit bias playing there that there's little to assume other than people assuming too much into their OWN mental scripts. :v
...Which is kinda part of why I softclaimed :3 [/Dundunduuuuuun]
To generate CONVERSATION :I
And it is a lacking conversation that seems to be coming from Teneb and TDS. Reverie has her own reasons that I find reasonable if I saw me in myself :v
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It just looks like "Hey guys, look at how town I am!".Somehow, from point A, you arrived at this portion WHEN I HAVE NEVER SAID THIS IN TONE OR IN STRUCTURE.
Somehow you're making up reasons to interpret my actions.
Somehow that strikes me as jumpy--with a lot more exact on the 'somehow' in this sentence.
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Also, while I am 100% sure there is a cult of some sort, she does keep going on and on about charismatic cultists.Y-yes ._.
...Because I have experience BEING a charismatic cultist.
Because I've looked over Templar, and that's the reasoning in perpendicular to that kind of thinking you somehow have. I'm assuming within reason of empirical things; in the least that's how I see myself, because other than people reasoning it out with me and gradually helping adjust the perception from 'okay not really cult', it becomes 'OPPORTUNISTIC SCUM LABELING' :I
Seriously guys.
Quote
Sure, she was one in previous games, but her insistence on that particular variation of cultist is strange. I don't think she's actually a charismatic cultist, but rather that it is an attempt to throw us off about what this cult can actually do. So Tiruin.You don't even bother talking with me. :I (like, questioning and thinking it over to give or get DEEPER ideas)
But talk to the audience. (so it comes off as descriptive determination...which doesn't give as deep ideas when the primary reactions are...reactions, like everything I've wrote)
So can you please connect your reasonings on WHY you instantaneously jumped on the idea that 'OMG TIRUN IS SMOKESCREENING D:'
When the whole matter is me not even hugging a limelight and me just SAYING DETAILS. :I
HOW does that even CONNECT to OBSCURING a SCUM PLAN?!
Post by: Tiruin on October 11, 2017, 06:45:11 am
PFPHMPFF :I Is this why you said I'll elaborate on it later?
Because adding in a 'If anyone wants an explanation for a specific one, say it.' made me think you somehow...said something that you would expound on only if asked.
Well -_-
Still. Elaborate on it please, between precision and assumption--define the cult that you say you know. :v
Post by: hector13 on October 11, 2017, 06:55:01 am
Also I can’t vote or the day ends, and I don’t want to vote for Tiruin, despite the very much out of character frustration.
Teneb would be my choice right now, this apparent opportunistic jumping on wagons is bothersome, plus the bizarre pressure on me earlier this day doesn’t make sense to me. I’m experienced, I can brush off reasoned and well-founded arguments, and somehow I’m Town for going “nah bro you are” to his pressure?
TDS’ reads don’t seem to fit what’s actually been happening in the game.
Rev is most probably town. Juicebox is a TDS-like lurker.
Teneb: I’m curious how Tiruin saying the cult might be able to to convert and kill is trying to obscure what the cult can do. What other actions do you think a cult in a supernatural would have, that the town should be worried about?
Tiruin is correct regarding my softclaim (though I dislike the deflection :P) since I said I know there’s a witch, but there are a myriad of ways that I might know that. You also softclaim knowledge of a cult, too without going into details.
Post by: Tiruin on October 11, 2017, 07:00:13 am
Tiruin is correct regarding my softclaim (though I dislike the deflection :P) since I said I know there’s a witch, but there are a myriad of ways that I might know that. You also softclaim knowledge of a cult, too without going into details.GRAAAAH [/sass]
But seriously, its more me acknowledging you rather than deflection :P ...>_> I guess I didn't make it that clear in my past posts in lieu of fiestiness? oops :-[
Also yes I softclaim knowledge of a cult, but it was based on the assumption that I assumed that the organ stealing was part of cult-kill flavor (and Templar bias), up until I looked back and re-read, alongside recalling my own experiences as Cha.Cult killer/converter. There was usually no body found, or had specific mutilation, so that leads me to think that the kill is an unconventional one OR we're dealing with different flavored cult...which would be presumable within context of assuming unconventional roles present.
Quote
In order to make this a bit more new player friendly I will not be adding any new roles or changing any of the existing roles this time.Which would kinda be weird, but we've a whole library of Supernaturals to browse into, and an extension AFTER Wednesday since 2 people extended and I added the 3rd extend.
Hmph. You guys go on a bit of a tear when I’m sleeping, leave it a bit awful for when I wake up.Wait did I frustrate you IRL ._.? Sorry :-\
Also I can’t vote or the day ends, and I don’t want to vote for Tiruin, despite the very much out of character frustration.
...Also I don't know why you said you can't vote or day ends, because there are no hammers?
Quote
Days will go for 72 hours (Ignoring weekends) or until everyone has voted (if there is a long period of inactivity after everyone votes I'll end the day to keep things moving).
In the event of a tie, no lynch will occur.
Unvote but y'all know I'm voting TDS, but I'm Unvoting for now.
Quickeditnooope juice voted!
Post by: Tiruin on October 11, 2017, 07:10:13 am
Quote
Also I can’t vote or the day ends, and I don’t want to vote for Tiruin, despite the very much out of character frustration.It's pretty much in character when I realized that there was little substance for people voting--and I'm of the mind that scum don't want to attract heat but those actions are just painting yourself red on a snowy field. :v
Err...sans the metaphor being associated with a vote. I'm saying its visibility pushing that seems to be the push for the day
Post by: Reverie on October 11, 2017, 08:19:47 am
Tiruin:
Quotejuicebox - Essentially inactive day 1. Has good, well-reasoned posts day 2 but doesn't have much content in general. Mild town lean, but this could change with more content....Oh wow, I'm reading juicebox's posts! They TOTALLY LACK A LOT IN THEM!
This is some good, well-reasoned posts there. Inactive (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7578627#msg7578627) D1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7578908#msg7578908); total of 2 posts. D (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7585320#msg7585320)ay (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7585775#msg7585775) two (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7586198#msg7586198) has (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7587718#msg7587718) five (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7587850#msg7587850), and I see a lack of 'well reasoned' in contrast to ALL OF OURS, being present. Unless you mean commonly reasoned, because people would clearly think 'oh okay, cha. cultist can convert N1, that's possible'.
AND YET HE IS WRONG WITH DETAILS IF PEOPLE READ BACK!
juicebox: leaning okay
These two quotes are in direct opposition of one another. What do you really think?
I should first clarify that I don't believe that we have just one mafioso, I felt we ruled that out the moment Shakerag's killer never came forward (hence no cha. cultist).OK :I
How?
You cannot rule out the LACK of a cha. cultist when their abilities match that of scum cultists (the vanilla type), or that of a generic mafia team that are cultists-in-flavor. The Charismatic Cultist merely has their ability of conversion prettymuch BEING the nightkill (see, that game I linked. I could only convert Toasty, while the others couldn't kill)
Because if SHakerag's killer came forward--in this 6 player setup, we'd have pretty much one OUTED killer. That leaves 5.
I am not a bloody killer, that leaves 4. (TAKE THIS NOTE EVEN IF YOU DOUBT IT :I I am not claiming a killing role, I am claiming an OP role)
Then there's a Witch claimant, that leaves 3 or 2, considering Witches are Masons and that's usually their only ability (again people poke me please).
And in that 3-2 people remaining, I get accused of 'theorycrafting' when people are rather softclaiming outwards in a way to glean information for those astute enough to follow those tracks .___.
You know? Honestly there is some point where it doesn't matter what sort of scumteam we are dealing with, so much as how many of them there are. Shakerag died, no-one came forward about it, ergo we can go forward assuming a two person kill-equipped scumteam. I believe hector and his tip-off that we have a witch, especially now that he didn't jump at the opportunity for the hammer (I didn't even realise this game had one!). If I'm to be blunt, you have laid enough breadcrumbs to narrow down my assumption of your role to between two: knight and sorcerer. Borrowing my reasoning from before against you being a guard by the nature of your baiting (thereby ruining whatever actual surprise would be in store for your attacker) and applying that to the knight, that makes you a sorcerer. The flavour in the first post leaves little up for interpretation, I think. You seclude yourself at night.
Assuming I am right, and plugging that in with information we already know, a scum sorcerer would definitely fit in direct meta opposition of a townie Templar, and moreover we return to my original point that your softclaims are half-measures to satisfy town while being self-defeating. Which is also the point I think Teneb is raising.
Post by: Mephansteras on October 11, 2017, 09:12:02 am
Teneb: juicebox
Tiruin: Reverie, Teneb, TheDarkStar
Day ends ~5pm Pacific today. There are no more extensions remaining for this day.
Also, I should note that this game does not have hammers per se. That rule is just in place so that if everyone has voted and the game seems unlikely to move I can end the day and keep things going. I won't end the day early if there is plenty of discussion going on.
Post by: Tiruin on October 11, 2017, 09:27:09 am
The Scribe's Tally SheetWasn't this already extended since before?? o_O I thought we had more of an extension past Wednesday? Because I recall the day was to end, last week, on Tuesday with 2 extensions remaining. The day got extended to Wednesday after that.
Teneb: juicebox
Tiruin: Reverie, Teneb, TheDarkStar
Day ends ~5pm Pacific today. There are no more extensions remaining for this day.
Wow, lots of stuff to parse.Not really. I can comment on how 'common' juicebox' reasoning is and still find him okay--because I assume, given his LATE extension right after Meph extended, that he has trouble catching up. I believe you agree with me albeit subtly and silently, or at least a few do too, aye?
Tiruin:Quotejuicebox - Essentially inactive day 1. Has good, well-reasoned posts day 2 but doesn't have much content in general. Mild town lean, but this could change with more content....Oh wow, I'm reading juicebox's posts! They TOTALLY LACK A LOT IN THEM!
This is some good, well-reasoned posts there. Inactive (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7578627#msg7578627) D1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7578908#msg7578908); total of 2 posts. D (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7585320#msg7585320)ay (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7585775#msg7585775) two (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7586198#msg7586198) has (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7587718#msg7587718) five (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7587850#msg7587850), and I see a lack of 'well reasoned' in contrast to ALL OF OURS, being present. Unless you mean commonly reasoned, because people would clearly think 'oh okay, cha. cultist can convert N1, that's possible'.
AND YET HE IS WRONG WITH DETAILS IF PEOPLE READ BACK!juicebox: leaning okay
These two quotes are in direct opposition of one another. What do you really think?
You can be wrong, and still be nonscum :P
Quote
You know? Honestly there is some point where it doesn't matter what sort of scumteam we are dealing with, so much as how many of them there are. Shakerag died, no-one came forward about it, ergo we can go forward assuming a two person kill-equipped scumteam. I believe hector and his tip-off that we have a witch, especially now that he didn't jump at the opportunity for the hammer (I didn't even realise this game had one!). If I'm to be blunt, you have laid enough breadcrumbs to narrow down my assumption of your role to between two: knight and sorcerer. Borrowing my reasoning from before against you being a guard by the nature of your baiting (thereby ruining whatever actual surprise would be in store for your attacker) and applying that to the knight, that makes you a sorcerer. The flavour in the first post leaves little up for interpretation, I think. You seclude yourself at night.Yes.
Assuming I am right, and plugging that in with information we already know, a scum sorcerer would definitely fit in direct meta opposition of a townie Templar, and moreover we return to my original point that your softclaims are half-measures to satisfy town while being self-defeating. Which is also the point I think Teneb is raising.
But the problem is--my softclaims don't matter if you're not scum. It puts heat on me, something scum wouldn't like--and honestly before I even did what I did, the game was good ground for people playing passive in the day game until people did stuff.
...Also how is that scum thing even being in anyway possible with a TEMPLAR?
I'm feeling like there's a 2 person scum team given how little depth anything presented to scummify me really is--as it has GOOD face validity, (face value and all? First appearances?), but the depth of the votes aren't really as deep.
...Like seriously. Bring up meta and then say Sorcerer or Knight as opposition to a Templar. :P
Quote
and moreover we return to my original point that your softclaims are half-measures to satisfy town while being self-defeating.It's like this makes me scum because people reasoned it in a way to want to find scum, rather than check if what this person is doing has its own context which I presented. It would make VERY LITTLE SENSE on 'satisfying town' when there still is no connection onto why.
Because Townies are self-sufficient regardless of what other people say. It's taking my goal (baiting) and pushing it one step further into twisting it as a scum plot. Looks good at surface value, and coincides with emotions because people want to find scum, or after a latent level of Day 1 activity.
Yea, further following that up--its in foresight rather than jumping on what is presented. :v
Also I can be a Warbear.
Yes its werebear but I've always loved pronouncing it as 'war' :P
But yeah. Substance. My queries haven't been answered and I will be forced to claim given the timing and if Meph really means this to end today -_-
Post by: Mephansteras on October 11, 2017, 09:34:40 am
The Scribe's Tally SheetWasn't this already extended since before?? o_O I thought we had more of an extension past Wednesday? Because I recall the day was to end, last week, on Tuesday with 2 extensions remaining. The day got extended to Wednesday after that.
Teneb: juicebox
Tiruin: Reverie, Teneb, TheDarkStar
Day ends ~5pm Pacific today. There are no more extensions remaining for this day.
Weeks are not consistent on what day things happen because of the night phase. This day was originally set to end Monday, and has been extended twice already. So we are at the maximum time for this day, ending Wednesday.
Post by: Tiruin on October 11, 2017, 09:40:42 am
Fish.The Scribe's Tally SheetWasn't this already extended since before?? o_O I thought we had more of an extension past Wednesday? Because I recall the day was to end, last week, on Tuesday with 2 extensions remaining. The day got extended to Wednesday after that.
Teneb: juicebox
Tiruin: Reverie, Teneb, TheDarkStar
Day ends ~5pm Pacific today. There are no more extensions remaining for this day.
Weeks are not consistent on what day things happen because of the night phase. This day was originally set to end Monday, and has been extended twice already. So we are at the maximum time for this day, ending Wednesday.
Let's see -_- 10:32pm, GMT +8. Pacific time is...GMT -4?
So it is 10am there.
So I've got 6 hours to PUNCH THOSE DUMB VOTES :I
Yeah people guessed it right--at least Reverie did
Fun stuff. And coincidentally what I asked Shakerag D1 :P (which I tried to humorously boop when people poked BHK's thing, which caused me to realize 'oh...someone else did what I tried. Oops.')
And the fun stuff adding to it, is me knowing exactly what the Sorceror does.
I'm bloody immune to night actions other than magicky things. Which is why I kept trying to bait.
...Leading me to ponder on that 2 person scumteam given Rev piling onto me like Teneb on grounds of assumed personal bias, and the stereotype of diluting reasoning in depth when presenting it in public if reasoned thoroughly in a scumchat; double problem being that that isn't the case with Reverie as she is astute. >_<
Eh, still voting TDS for his fake acclaim of...whatever he was planning.
Post by: Tiruin on October 11, 2017, 09:54:57 am
A
Post by: Tiruin on October 11, 2017, 10:15:34 am
[...And to just pour my thoughts out, a Witch is divided into sole or group (if group, then coven witch, meaning Mason team), the sole is a Watcher who doesn't risk themselves but is much like 'plant this tracking bug on this person, if they go out of their home {physical action}, instant watch.'
A-
A Coven is more in flavor, noted in supernatural 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=89665.msg2644008#msg2644008), and none of them (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=89665.0) are really role witches.
Quote from: Sole Example
Jim Groovester (town) (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139118.1125)
Last of those who still worship the Old Gods of the land, you are a Lone Witch. And yet the Old Gods still have power, and that power can be used. Once during the game you may go to another player's house and place the Watchful Eye upon it. From that point on you will know if the player leaves their house and if anyone else visits it during the night, although you will not know what purpose any of them have. You do not need to leave your house to See what the Watchful Eye sees.
More reference in Soup 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131512.msg4781982#msg4781982)
Also I'm actually a Werebear who punches anyone who touches me :v
But of course nobody claims because 'nobody touched me'.
But none of that matters because we finally have activity--activity that presumes rather than leaves information, and is strangely pointed and targeted. What I've been doing thus far is not to direct--but to stimulate; whatever came out of that was on its own volition, and I can see that much of the vote is pushed on assumption with no real reason on how this makes one scum -.-
...And I'm still weirded out on TDS' outlook.
One problem I've noticed, however, is that Shakerag's death (the kill) is UNIQUE in flavor, this flavor. Nowhere in all of the Supernaturals (I do not want to link them all but I did check for the terms :V), did someone's eyes or heart get ripped out and their body found as such.
And yes I'm still presuming there is one scum--7/9 scenario, 2 third parties. WHY I've kept presuming that is biased by my own role -.-
When I read 'immune to night actions', it...changes a woman's perception.
But now I'm presuming 2, because of how radical this got o_O (or multiple parties :V)
Post by: Tiruin on October 11, 2017, 01:06:49 pm
So we're in the phase of 'hey let's leave our votes, and rather than engaging in dialogue, just shoot an accusation and be done with it.'
Pretty merry since there was little even leading up to it--only Reverie engaged in dialogue, the rest didn't. <_<
And I be accused of active lurking. :-\
Post by: hector13 on October 11, 2017, 01:17:45 pm
Anyway, Teneb or TDS should be lynched this day.
Post by: Tiruin on October 11, 2017, 01:32:44 pm
I've been reading the past threads (and reviewing because masters midterms is scary and first exam was fun though), so busy busy, and thanks for the time bop.
Also I can hammer (...everyone votes) to tie it but I'm curious.
...Also curious about the Witch thing unless its tied to your role, otherwise I don't think it'll be good to mention it yet.
Post by: Reverie on October 11, 2017, 01:34:17 pm
And yes I'm still presuming there is one scum--7/9 scenario, 2 third parties. WHY I've kept presuming that is biased by my own role -.-If you're convinced there is one scum and then soon after suggest that there could be two parties (which implies up to four anti-town peoples remaining), I'm not sure visiting past lore is actually helping us with anything besides dragging our feet through the land of 'what-ifs'. Which is a bit disappointing considering all of this effort you've pored into theory.
When I read 'immune to night actions', it...changes a woman's perception.
But now I'm presuming 2, because of how radical this got o_O (or multiple parties :V)
Also holy cow, I'm tempted to follow hector's lead if the alternative means going to sleep with loose ends from TDS and Teneb.
Post by: Tiruin on October 11, 2017, 01:38:12 pm
I hate timezones. It's 8PM and I won't be here forever, people have to post.I did say I was speaking my mind :PAnd yes I'm still presuming there is one scum--7/9 scenario, 2 third parties. WHY I've kept presuming that is biased by my own role -.-If you're convinced there is one scum and then soon after suggest that there could be two parties (which implies up to four anti-town peoples remaining), I'm not sure visiting past lore is actually helping us with anything besides dragging our feet through the land of 'what-ifs'. Which is a bit disappointing considering all of this effort you've pored into theory.
When I read 'immune to night actions', it...changes a woman's perception.
But now I'm presuming 2, because of how radical this got o_O (or multiple parties :V)
Which didn't tone well in hindsight. <_> But I was bothered because of how it led up to voting me (which led up to me claiming :v), because there was literally no dialogue beforehand.
Also holy cow, I'm tempted to follow hector's lead if the alternative means going to sleep with loose ends from TDS and Teneb....Would it help if I said do it? :P
Because please do it. Unless you have any ends on my part which are unresolved .-.; because I think I've answered everything.
Post by: Tiruin on October 11, 2017, 02:34:03 pm
And I need to sleeeeeep T_T
Only thing preventing that is that tomorrow and tomorrowrrow is pressure/burden lite.
Post by: Tiruin on October 11, 2017, 02:49:42 pm
Also the Warbear I'm talking about is this one (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=106608.msg3368476#msg3368476), not the other one (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139118.msg5519386#msg5519386). (https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/356768917567569931.png)
Tiruin writes a 'please don't approach me townies' on her doorpost.
I don't think a Sorceror has ever existed in the past, hum? :P
Post by: TheDarkStar on October 11, 2017, 03:05:00 pm
Post by: Reverie on October 11, 2017, 03:16:47 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on October 11, 2017, 03:52:34 pm
Teneb: hector13, juicebox, Reverie, Tiruin
Tiruin: Teneb, TheDarkStar
Day ends ~3 hours from now. No more extensions remain for this day.
Post by: TheDarkStar on October 11, 2017, 03:55:00 pm
Eww that's weak -_- "Mostly active lurking" WHEN I BASICALLY SAID I WAS AWAY FOR TWO DAYS.
I gave bloody dang reads on how active people were--with Rev topping it out and others not even touching that level of quality. I am basically stating as such like before that I cannot particularly detect scum leaning attitudes as I have felt, much like before, that they're being covert. Which is really feeling like the case at present :I
And yes I do :P With the subtlety in present, I am looking at Reverie as Towny, Hector as totally weird but it would be strange to claim Witch with...no direction thereafter, as it prsents heat and focus, that which would be fully detrimental to a Witch-Mason team (if there's any other Witch team, please boop me--I've got Midterms for my Masters literally today, and on Saturday; today in the next 6 hours, AND I'M NOT BLOODY 'ACTIVE LURKING' :I)
Activity does not determine towniness. Sure, more active people tend to be more town-aligned, but the content of what they say matters too. Especially in a low-activity game like this (where people are busy with RL things), activity does not indicate alignment as much. I based my reads on reading through every single post made by all people still alive. I noted which people were lurking more, but the reasons that I think they're scummy are mostly tied to specific posts, votes, and reasoning/lack thereof. You seem very concerned with activity though, since you gave reads based on that. Why not include the content of what people said?
That partially nudges me that you're looking for an easy target with those kinds of accusations you're putting out; when in doubt, accuse of lurking.
Especially if you go the middleman in trying to gauge some 'scummy' reads when you don't have substance to back it up.
It is FURTHER a contrary note that you label my actions as 'theorycrafting', when I've been pretty much placing the notion of what roles exist therein. We're at a 6 player team, WHOLLY DIFFERENT than if people assume 'oh vanilla 2 scum in 9 person game' as we've got 2 THIRD PARTIES down, that ADJUSTS my variance of scum from 2 to 1, with possibility making a charismatic cultist--REGARDLESS of the Templar flip (the Templar flip made me consider the Cha. Cultist being a possibility a bit more, but I've had hunches because of thinking 'okay, 6 out of 9, 1 town dead, 2 Third parties dead; Shakerag died because people got his eyes and other sensory organs, no sign of Monster Hunter, no sign of Were-attack; OBVIOUSLY scum')
I have substance - I read over the entire game to see what kinds of questions/accusations/other posts people made (and posted my notes). And I'm not saying that theorizing about the game is useless (for example, the number of scum is very important in determining if we should lynch today). I am saying that that's most of what you have and there's a notable lack of actually trying to find scum.
So it is weird that people are assuming Shakerag died to anything BUT scum.QuoteReverie - Not much substance until recently. Suggested a massclaim and has started to pressure people for stuff, but I want to see more. Mildly scummy (roughly tied with Teneb).Wow seriously :v
She was the one prodding literally everyone till D1.
You getting your reads from a biased source of the recency effect, or what?
Day 1, her posts were almost entirely RVS. Sure there was content, but no effort to find scum. Her content today is better but it sometimes still feels lacking.
Quotehector13 - mildly scummy for day 1 suspicion-without-voting, pressures Teneb today for stuff. Mild scum lean, but that might switch to a town lean by the end of the day.Yeaaaaa how.
That doesn't match with Reverie's quality, and his 'switch town lean' isn't anywhere detailed in your post.
And you blue'd those two people! The OTHER TWO HOWEVER have less posts and less quality--and yet you don't touch them with a FoS, and leave them with the SAME 'mild scum lean'.
I'm not sure what you mean, but I don't base my reads off Reverie, I base them off my own observations.
Quotejuicebox - Essentially inactive day 1. Has good, well-reasoned posts day 2 but doesn't have much content in general. Mild town lean, but this could change with more content....Oh wow, I'm reading juicebox's posts! They TOTALLY LACK A LOT IN THEM!
This is some good, well-reasoned posts there. Inactive (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7578627#msg7578627) D1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7578908#msg7578908); total of 2 posts. D (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7585320#msg7585320)ay (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7585775#msg7585775) two (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7586198#msg7586198) has (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7587718#msg7587718) five (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7587850#msg7587850), and I see a lack of 'well reasoned' in contrast to ALL OF OURS, being present. Unless you mean commonly reasoned, because people would clearly think 'oh okay, cha. cultist can convert N1, that's possible'.
AND YET HE IS WRONG WITH DETAILS IF PEOPLE READ BACK!QuoteWell I would say that the evidence points to some non-cult scum out there. Flavorwise, it doesn't seem like Shakerag was killed by a townie, and the fact that nobody has claimed the kill seems to point in that direction also. Furthermore, based on past Supernatural games, I don't think the cult leader would have a kill. So it seems to me that there is some non-cultist scum out there, and that's who killed Shakerag.> See: Supernatural 8. ANY CULT MEMBER CAN KILL.
If you mean a Cult Leader, See Supernatural 6; Tiruin as Charismatic Cultist (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131512.msg4781985#msg4781985), I killed people :I
And, I have to explicitly mention--unless juicebox was referring to SOMETHING ELSE ABOUT CULTS, I have to mention that asking flavor is important and not """theorycrafting""", I killed Cmega3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131512.msg4762196#msg4762196) in Night 2, people were curious how she died, I stole the body (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131512.msg4762984#msg4762984) as mentioned in the N2 results. And while it was mentioned I used a bloody axe, while skipping merrily over to Jim's home in N3, have consistent flavor. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131512.msg4775529#msg4775529)
If you can say 'juicebox' is 'well reasoned', his reason is out the window in the cold, dark night.
And thus reinforcing that YOU aren't doing your READING either.
Unless you can back that up--correct me like a gentleman,pistols at dawn, and then tell me what was the substance of your posts other than applying pressure to an otherwise seemingly 'lurking/active' "scumbag".
The posts he's made today are good, I just want to see more of them. If his activity picks up (probably tomorrow due to impending end of day) and he keeps posting as he has (some scumhunting, some useful observations) I'll read him as more strongly town.
Post by: Tiruin on October 11, 2017, 06:59:05 pm
Alright, here's my response to Tiruin's first post. If I had more time I'd respond to other people too.That's the problem--you instantly jumped to 'lurking' without backing up that issue with substance. LURKING accounts for people staying online (or offline) and being available to read through the thread, and there is verifiable proof of that (in the least when noting down their actions); I basically said 'I've Masters Midterms, first exams', and did note what I did why I did in D1.Eww that's weak -_- "Mostly active lurking" WHEN I BASICALLY SAID I WAS AWAY FOR TWO DAYS.
I gave bloody dang reads on how active people were--with Rev topping it out and others not even touching that level of quality. I am basically stating as such like before that I cannot particularly detect scum leaning attitudes as I have felt, much like before, that they're being covert. Which is really feeling like the case at present :I
And yes I do :P With the subtlety in present, I am looking at Reverie as Towny, Hector as totally weird but it would be strange to claim Witch with...no direction thereafter, as it prsents heat and focus, that which would be fully detrimental to a Witch-Mason team (if there's any other Witch team, please boop me--I've got Midterms for my Masters literally today, and on Saturday; today in the next 6 hours, AND I'M NOT BLOODY 'ACTIVE LURKING' :I)
Activity does not determine towniness. Sure, more active people tend to be more town-aligned, but the content of what they say matters too. Especially in a low-activity game like this (where people are busy with RL things), activity does not indicate alignment as much. I based my reads on reading through every single post made by all people still alive. I noted which people were lurking more, but the reasons that I think they're scummy are mostly tied to specific posts, votes, and reasoning/lack thereof. You seem very concerned with activity though, since you gave reads based on that. Why not include the content of what people said?
You basically dropped the 'lurking' excuse for everyone and did not follow it up with any substance at ALL. It's an easy excuse to place people under when you think there's a 'lacking push for lynches' or otherwise. I included the CONTENT of what people said, but didn't quickly go off and connect it with their "scumminess" because its...really not helpful.
Like juicebox for example; you say he's less scummy than us but his posts aren't even depth touching or information giving, or interacting--inasmuch as you were with what we've been doing. I've asked questions, or at least provided feedback over what people have said to me, about me, which haven't been addressed that well (Reverie did), but we're linked as 'SCUMMIEST' for some reason without reasoning, other than 'active lurking most likely' or something that you didn't detail better when you posted your reads about us. [Much were not toned as questions, but did question others' claims; they were not interrogative, but descriptive.]
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I have substance - I read over the entire game to see what kinds of questions/accusations/other posts people made (and posted my notes). And I'm not saying that theorizing about the game is useless (for example, the number of scum is very important in determining if we should lynch today). I am saying that that's most of what you have and there's a notable lack of actually trying to find scum.You have substance. I meant 'substance' as in dialogue with others. What I saw in your post of reads trivialized what people did (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167537.msg7588490#msg7588490), like labeling what I did as 'theorycrafting' when that helped (or at least involved) people talking as it was something people could talk about in associating things and actions. Many did not hold dialogue to me but judged me outright (there was little of '
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Question Tiruin!', but more [Observation] JUDGEMENT Tiruin!)
I mean if your substance holds scumhunting, there's a big comparison between things likeQuotejuicebox - Essentially inactive day 1. Has good, well-reasoned posts day 2 but doesn't have much content in general. Mild town lean, but this could change with more content.and things comparing the rest. In saying what you said to people who needed more content, it didn't compare well to people who probably posted more quantity, but presumably had more time to think things through.
Because there was a big opportunity to notice dialogue. And put dialogue.
But you didn't. (other than asking reads and of whom was thought as scummier)QuoteDay 1, her posts were almost entirely RVS. Sure there was content, but no effort to find scum. Her content today is better but it sometimes still feels lacking.Nudging others and asking questions is no effort? She attempted to talk with others, she didn't assume other people inasmuch as others have recently did in their quantity-of-posts-to-talking-with-others ratio. This is basically your SECOND post after issuing a vote where dialogue was much needed before the lynch.QuoteI'm not sure what you mean, but I don't base my reads off Reverie, I base them off my own observations.Yes but reasoning following those observations was not expressed at all. From what I saw, it was very skewed with how you detailed people, and doesn't determine people being scum, because it was detached from people.QuoteThe posts he's made today are good, I just want to see more of them. If his activity picks up (probably tomorrow due to impending end of day) and he keeps posting as he has (some scumhunting, some useful observations) I'll read him as more strongly town.And did you think about questioning him about specific things that would provide more discussion? You've basically been 'reading him as town' because he posted things that are commonly reasonable.
And that was it.
There was reluctance to engage with him (or at least, the big opportunity of talking with him looks diminished compared to passing judgement on the rest of us). "Good" in comparison to our posts, means what? What MAKES him town reading for you?
Post by: Mephansteras on October 11, 2017, 07:12:19 pm
Teneb: hector13, juicebox, Reverie, Tiruin
Tiruin: Teneb, TheDarkStar
The day draws to a close after long discussion.
Finally, the scribe stands up and announces that a decision has been made to lynch Teneb this day.
The High Priest thanks him and turns to you. "I call upon the Pact of Blood. Teneb stand forth and meet thy fate."
With a look of worry on his face, Teneb steps forth. "I...I am sorry that I have failed you today. You see, I am a Sage, and I had hoped to use my knowledge to aid us in finding these wicked beings that plague our town. I could not, and now it is I and not one of our enemies who dies today. I can only hope that you somehow make it out of this nightmare."
The Executioner takes a single swing of his axe, and Teneb joins his ancestors in the afterlife.
The High Priest shakes his head. "Two of our number have you slain. We have little time left, I fear. Go forth and sleep this night. I can only hope that tomorrow brings better news."
Night has fallen. Send in your actions!
Post by: Mephansteras on October 15, 2017, 08:25:19 pm
You arrive at the courtyard the next morning and find the high priest once again examining a body. Only one this time, though
He stands up once you have all arrived.
“My news is grim this morning, I am afraid. Our good juicebox was slain last night.” He guestures down at the body. “The eyes and heart have once again been removed, and the body dumped out in a field. From what I have been able to determine, it seems they were not one of the faithful but instead a Witch who followed the old gods. While I would normally take offense to such things, it seems they were at least aligned with us against the evil that threatens us. I will pray that their soul be taken to The Light.”
“And now, I must turn the task back over to you. Please, find and eliminate this threat before it is too late!”
Oh, but it is already too late. Reverie says as she slashes Tiruin’s throat from behind with a black dagger. Her eyes glow a bright green as the Sorcerer’s body slumps to the ground. Your light shall soon be extinguished, as the blessed Darkness returns this world to the way it once was. The Wizard raises her arms, and the sun begins to turn black.
Hector13 turns and tries to flee, but is grabbed by TheDarkStar who pulls out another black dagger and thrusts it into the heart of the Dreamwalker. The cultist Fortune Teller smiles as green flames flicker along the edge of his blade.
Reverie’s form shifts, growing larger and darker and she steps towards the High Priest and the cowering crowd of townsfolk behind him. All who bend the knee before me shall be welcomed as my new servants. All who resist shall be cast into the Void.
Frightened and confused, the townsfolk kneel before as the world is plunged into darkness eternal. The Dark Lady laughs, and the whole world trembles at her return.
And that's game over. Super quick this time, sorry. Town happened to have almost the exact worst series of lynches and night actions. Which is a pity, I was hoping for some more interesting interactions between the various roles. Would have been a better set-up with more people, but hopefully everyone had fun anyway.
Spoiler: Role PMs (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Night 1 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Night 2 (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tiruin on October 15, 2017, 11:31:00 pm
Also MEPHANSTERAS I thought you said the day would end when EVERYONE votes, not when everyone votes and the timer counts down!
Situations much like D2 is why DIALOGUE is pretty important. <_< While I was going on about the 1-scum/2scum, there was still the bit where people jumped on me for really not-shaped up reasons. Like, we didn't have a D1 to work with. Is it a point to point that it was a smooth cruise for scum there? :P But yeah, activity didn't help when the more active was good scum.
I was still expecting Cha. Cultist though. Arrrrghhhh.
And juicebox was alive in D2 to talk to Hector about things. >_<
Also Teneb...you basically confirmed 'CULT' was present...and didn't mention much out of it than voting me and disappearing. :-\
Post by: Mephansteras on October 16, 2017, 12:51:13 am
Also, I should note that this game does not have hammers per se. That rule is just in place so that if everyone has voted and the game seems unlikely to move I can end the day and keep things going. I won't end the day early if there is plenty of discussion going on.
I did clarify this, Tiruin.
Post by: TheDarkStar on October 16, 2017, 12:54:51 am
And I was almost right in guessing people's roles! Except that I thought hector was a sage, juicebox was either witch or guard, and I thought wasn't sure if Tiruin was a knight or a sorcerer for a while. And I was completely wrong on Teneb.
..that's 1.5/4, but only because Tiruin claimed her role directly.
Post by: Tiruin on October 16, 2017, 12:56:21 am
Oops :-[Also, I should note that this game does not have hammers per se. That rule is just in place so that if everyone has voted and the game seems unlikely to move I can end the day and keep things going. I won't end the day early if there is plenty of discussion going on.
I did clarify this, Tiruin.
Thanks Meph! :)
I didn't notice that (I did but sleep issues) at the time being near day end.
This was a perfect Mafia win though. :P
GG.Vote better next time because that tipped me off to you being scum. :I Like those other times you were scum. :P
And I was almost right in guessing people's roles! Except that I thought hector was a sage, juicebox was either witch or guard, and I thought wasn't sure if Tiruin was a knight or a sorcerer for a while. And I was completely wrong on Teneb.
..that's 1.5/4, but only because Tiruin claimed her role directly.
Post by: TheDarkStar on October 16, 2017, 12:57:23 am
Post by: Tiruin on October 16, 2017, 12:58:10 am
People think I'm scum every game.Only when you live past N1. :P
Although...it was MYLO all this time :-\ I should have pushed my point more and nudged people onto TDS.
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and the body dumped out in a field.Things like this would've helped infer better that it was a cult kill. :'( But that's my problem with templates! :P
Smooth scum win, and a classic point of the importance of activity, though. I like the conciseness in communication in the scumchat. :)
Post by: Reverie on October 16, 2017, 03:33:45 am
Post by: AbstractTraitorHero on October 16, 2017, 05:33:36 pm
A shame as well ince I was an importantish role. I am not entirely sure what I did wrong.
Post by: hector13 on October 16, 2017, 05:36:53 pm
My preferred lynch at the time would’ve been BHK, but I would’ve tied the game up at that point... evidently I need to avoid hedging.
Post by: BlackHeartKabal on October 16, 2017, 05:56:11 pm
My preferred lynch at the time would’ve been BHK, but I would’ve tied the game up at that point... evidently I need to avoid hedging.>:(
Post by: hector13 on October 16, 2017, 06:08:58 pm
Post by: Tiruin on October 16, 2017, 11:12:33 pm
Hey you were at least a role that needed to be lynched :pBut you didn't know that :P
...And due to time, there was going to be a hop onto the next voted person >_>
Why did people pick Teneb over TDS though?
I will fully admit I dident realize I was being lynched until it happened.It's more activity :P You got lynched by 2 out of 9 people.
A shame as well ince I was an importantish role. I am not entirely sure what I did wrong.
So uh >.> as said, this is a classic game where activity is importantly shown. Smooth scum win, and looking back, all it needed was 1 or 2 people in coordination. D1, was just 1 scum (and third party). D2, both scum.
Post by: Reverie on October 17, 2017, 08:48:57 am
Why did people pick Teneb over TDS though?
It was only ever one person who made that choice, you just followed and I was more than happy to as well, obviously :p
Post by: hector13 on October 17, 2017, 12:10:22 pm
Ah well, live and completely ignore past experience, eh.
Post by: Tiruin on October 17, 2017, 08:33:00 pm
Shouldn’t really have poked that more, I did think it was suspicious you were quick on that one...You mean live and learn? :P
Ah well, live and completely ignore past experience, eh.
Hmpf! :PWhy did people pick Teneb over TDS though?
It was only ever one person who made that choice, you just followed and I was more than happy to as well, obviously :p
Yeah that was totally MYLO. The other 2 voters were not present past Teneb's partial reveal of "I know there's a cult" :-\
Meph: Can you link a new game from here?
Post by: Mephansteras on October 17, 2017, 08:38:27 pm