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[Cardinal]

Oh my FSM, are we discussing evolutionary biology in a roguelike? 

Don't knock it, I find that to be the most compelling aspect of DF...

[abadidea]

Oh my FSM, are we discussing evolutionary biology in a roguelike? 

Don't knock it, I find that to be the most compelling aspect of DF...

I know. It's just hilarious that we're discussing whether egg-stealing is a sufficiently evolutionary viable strategy in a game that has unicorns, dragons, and magically animated colossi. And six-legged eyeless koalas that live underground.

[monk12]

Oh my FSM, are we discussing evolutionary biology in a roguelike? 

Don't knock it, I find that to be the most compelling aspect of DF...

I know. It's just hilarious that we're discussing whether egg-stealing is a sufficiently evolutionary viable strategy in a game that has unicorns, dragons, and magically animated colossi. And six-legged eyeless koalas that live underground.

Quite right- we should be discussing the evolutionary benefits of being an underground six-legged koala!

Or better yet, the evolutionary strategies of Dragons, as that would be marginally more on topic. It would be interesting to see dragon's lairs get more detailed, now that dragons have eggs to care for. Perhaps Dragons would choose to attack large and prosperous sites for the sole purpose of rearing their child there.

I just realized that I am assuming that Dragons have a single egg at a time, when they may in fact lay a clutch of eggs. And imagine the possibilities if other megabeasts or forgotten beasts laid a whole TON of eggs, like fish do. Digging your fortress on down, down, and as you breach the second cavern you find that the floors, walls, and ceiling are just covered in eggs. And then they all hatch at once, destroying your FPS and your fortress in one fell swoop. It occurs to me that this could well be the situation for GCS Eggs.

/ramble

[abadidea]

Unfortunately it is a pretty inevitable fact that the higher on the food chain, the fewer offspring in the average litter. Otherwise the ecosystem would be destroyed by the dragon population spiraling out of control.

[monk12]

Unfortunately it is a pretty inevitable fact that the higher on the food chain, the fewer offspring in the average litter. Otherwise the ecosystem would be destroyed by the dragon population spiraling out of control.

Except in the cases where the creature in question has a litter, and then the strongest/quickest baby kills the other ones to monopolize the mothers attention.

Which, if applied to dragons, would mean that they have a few babies and then the babies eat one another.

Which would lead to Adventurer's rescuing the babies and insuring 100% survival rate.

I think you see where I am going with this.

[Neonivek]

Hey Did Toady change the background to the Animal Drive or is it just my computer?

Mind you on the Laptop I was using the background was 100% the Zebra stripes without the overlay for the writing.

Was Toady responsible or was it my Laptop?

Out of curiosity, what browser are you using?

IE

[nbonaparte]

But dragons are immortal unless killed. The population should still explode, and what about the time before sentients come into play and take dominance from the megabeasts? Dragons would be unequaled, except perhaps by collosi (which are probably magical, and thus a product of sentients).

[Neonivek]

But dragons are immortal unless killed. The population should still explode, and what about the time before sentients come into play and take dominance from the megabeasts? Dragons would be unequaled, except perhaps by collosi (which are probably magical, and thus a product of sentients).

Depends, if Dragons compete with eachother that would be a way to keep their populations down.

[G-Flex]

You could also consider conditions for breeding. Most predators have territory, for example; one solution is for dragons to only breed if they have adequate territory to spare. This way, overcrowding simply doesn't happen. This would be evolutionarily advantageous and would result in a stable population.

[thvaz]

Unfortunately it is a pretty inevitable fact that the higher on the food chain, the fewer offspring in the average litter. Otherwise the ecosystem would be destroyed by the dragon population spiraling out of control.

Not always. Lions usually has 2-3 cubs per litter, while most of their prey has a single offspring each time. Gnus, gazelles, come to mind.

[de5me7]

given their size, dragons would need an abundance of food, if they are active. This would mean they would require territories as G-Flex says, in a similar manner to other large predators. One would expect dragons to defend their hunting territories against other dragons and competeing predators. You would expect the population of dragons to be capped at the number of available hunting territories, + any in hibernation. Hunting territories would be quite large, and even larger in poor biomes, such as deserts etc. In game terms this could mean you get dragon vs dragon combat if the population is too high, or dragon verses city combat if they become desparate for resources. Over population should increase dragon against sentient attacks (greater fun).

From fiction (may not be true of DF universe) we also know that dragons hibernate, and like caves. If they like caves they cannot be cold blooded (or at least it seems less likley). hibernation would allow them to survive longer if they had no territory but they would need somewhere secure against pesky humans, and other predators.

We also know they have a similar lust of shiny objects like the common magpie, and in some fiction, and i think DF, dragons are sentient. Even at lower populations dragons would have to attack sentients to claim shinies. they already appear to do this.

As for hatching eggs, they would need somewhere easily defendable, so a cave, empty fortress, or mountain top. I dont know what temperatures eggs need to survive, and whether a mother defending her egg(s) is in semi hibernation, or needs to hunt. Theres also the question of the males role, does the male just mate then leave, or is he an active parent? Also which is bigger, male or female dragons?

Luckily in df there will always be one population control for dragons.. Adventurers, the most mindless and ilogical predators of them all.

[iceball3]

But dragons are immortal unless killed. The population should still explode, and what about the time before sentients come into play and take dominance from the megabeasts? Dragons would be unequaled, except perhaps by collosi (which are probably magical, and thus a product of sentients).

Unless I missed something in the raws, dragons are typically thought to be immortal because their age lifespan is so long that it is usually cut off by something like getting killed.

[nbonaparte]

Looking through creature_standard, dwarves and humans have the MAXAGE tag. Elves, goblins,and dragons do not. Dragons are biologically immortal.

[thvaz]

Every megabeast, semimegabeast, creature of the night, and most fantasy creatures in DF lack MAXAGE tag.

[tps12]

All kobolds would share something like 94% of their DNA as identical. Hence, raising another child of the same species is only slightly less beneficial than raising your own child.

Good point (though it's got to be more than 94%, right? I think humans and chimps have like 95% DNA in common), I got so distracted by the "stealing eggs is the opposite of what cuckoos do" thing that I didn't notice the obvious differences between stealing eggs from your own species vs. stealing from another's.

I was also thinking of kobolds as sort of animalistic; like maybe having caveman intelligence but not much beyond that. If they are more advanced then of course culture could trump biology.

From fiction (may not be true of DF universe) we also know that dragons hibernate, and like caves. If they like caves they cannot be cold blooded (or at least it seems less likley).

Deep caves should have pretty constant temperature year-round, so I think that could work for a cold-blooded creature.