Hmm so if the dogs can't dodge easily, perhaps somehow having two entrances might be needed, or putting dogs on restraints in specific locations?two dogs near the walls of the 3-wide hallway with the rail in the middle?
Rollers use up 2 power per tile they are long, at least at the highest speed.
Rollers use up 2 power per tile they are long, at least at the highest speed.
My rollers seem to use zero power to function. They claim to need power, but then boost the cart anyway.
Track stops should be on top of tracks for the connection to count.
I'm having trouble with my up ramps - all the carts just keep bumping off of them like they're walls. They're definitely ramps, though, and they definitely go both of the desired directions.
Track stops should be on top of tracks for the connection to count.
I'm having trouble with my up ramps - all the carts just keep bumping off of them like they're walls. They're definitely ramps, though, and they definitely go both of the desired directions.
Track stops should be on top of tracks for the connection to count.
I'm having trouble with my up ramps - all the carts just keep bumping off of them like they're walls. They're definitely ramps, though, and they definitely go both of the desired directions.
Track stops should be on top of tracks for the connection to count.
I'm having trouble with my up ramps - all the carts just keep bumping off of them like they're walls. They're definitely ramps, though, and they definitely go both of the desired directions.
Wasn't there a difference between "ramps" and "track ramps"?
I ran into this exact problem myself earlier.
The solution: As counter-intuitive as it seems, only make your ramps face the direction of the next level they are going towards. For example, a ramp with the upper level north of it needs to only face north. Even when the cart goes both ways, it will run fine on it (It works for me at least!)
This was posted in a different thread:I ran into this exact problem myself earlier.
The solution: As counter-intuitive as it seems, only make your ramps face the direction of the next level they are going towards. For example, a ramp with the upper level north of it needs to only face north. Even when the cart goes both ways, it will run fine on it (It works for me at least!)
So it seems that ramps are really picky about directionality of both ramp and rails.
Track stops should be on top of tracks for the connection to count.
I'm having trouble with my up ramps - all the carts just keep bumping off of them like they're walls. They're definitely ramps, though, and they definitely go both of the desired directions.
They're track ramps, all right. And it takes a ton of energy to shoot these things up ramps.
An empty wooden cart was shot by a 7-long roller at the highest speed, going one tile and then up a track-ramp. It stopped right at the top of the ramp.
Well crap. How are we supposed to reliably get minecarts to transport UP then?
1: Dogs don't know how to dodge.Oh my.
So, I want to use my minecarts to for clearing out rocks from the fortress, how do I do this?
Do I need to just create a Loading stockpile then a dumping stockpile?
Or can I link a Zone to a stop?
Here's what I did.I could see this working very well for trading. Set up a couple stockpiles next to the depot, and when you buy out all the elves' cloth or whatever you fancy, it gets put into the stockpile, then shipped off next to the dwarven tailor to make into beautiful socks.
3x3 stone stockpile, carve a track from wherever to wherever. Puts stops at each end, have it dump in the direction of the pile you want it ending up in. Set up the route with (h)auling menu, link the loading stop to the 3x3 stockpile.
Bam, they automatically clear all the stone in the fort, and place it in a quantum stockpile. Even better, it's a quantum stockpile that doesn't need any micromanagement. Garbage dumps are no longer needed. No unforbidding required.
EDIT: I'm actually doing that with every stockpile I have, right now. Adding a 2 tile track, side-by-side stops. They load the cart and dump it right next door. 5x5 room for each workshop, infinite storage. It's an automated undump with no tricky water, or micromanagement.
Here's what I did.I could see this working very well for trading. Set up a couple stockpiles next to the depot, and when you buy out all the elves' cloth or whatever you fancy, it gets put into the stockpile, then shipped off next to the dwarven tailor to make into beautiful socks.
3x3 stone stockpile, carve a track from wherever to wherever. Puts stops at each end, have it dump in the direction of the pile you want it ending up in. Set up the route with (h)auling menu, link the loading stop to the 3x3 stockpile.
Bam, they automatically clear all the stone in the fort, and place it in a quantum stockpile. Even better, it's a quantum stockpile that doesn't need any micromanagement. Garbage dumps are no longer needed. No unforbidding required.
EDIT: I'm actually doing that with every stockpile I have, right now. Adding a 2 tile track, side-by-side stops. They load the cart and dump it right next door. 5x5 room for each workshop, infinite storage. It's an automated undump with no tricky water, or micromanagement.
I tried to create a circle of track with rollers powered by a windmill to create a neverending cart ride, but the cart keeps on coming to a stop atop the rollers. Any idea why?First thing popped into my mind - is the windmill actually producing power, and is it properly being sent to the roller?
Does there need to be track under the rollers?
Oh, the dump command on carts is going to be awesome.Fix'd.
Do magma-proof mechanisms that are submerged in magma still work? Because I might need to make a magma pit that carts dive in and out of and deliver magma to visitors outside the walls.
I tried to create a circle of track with rollers powered by a windmill to create a neverending cart ride, but the cart keeps on coming to a stop atop the rollers. Any idea why?
Minecarts, when used for certain things, have absurdly huge capacities.
For instance, a minecart loaded with cloth has space for about 2 500 rolls of cloth, that is, a staggering 25 million units.
833 units? As in 119 complete tiles of water?
I've found something interesting. In trying to build a shotgun, I've built a long ramp, a row of fortifications, and then a depot. You know, so I can fire wooden crafts at the elves. Except it was the dwarven caravan who happened to arrive. And it was iron spears.Awesomest. Thing. Ever. 8)
So, first test fire:
1: A caravan marksdwarf is accidentally standing on the track instead of remaining in the depot.
2: The cart barrels down the constructed hill and slams into the marksdwarf at a rate of about 2 ticks per tile.
3: The marksdwarf is sent flying through the fortifications!
4: The iron spears shotgun out, and strike the marksdwarf while the dwarf is in flight multiple times.
5: The dwarf hits the bridge at the other side of the depot and falls to the ground.
Thoroughly epic.
They are 50 tiles away from each other.
Does anyone have an idea when it would actually be useful to choose "ride" instead of "push" or "guide"?Well planned job permissions. For example, only plant threshers are allowed to haul food and work with vehicles. They deliver and instantly start work on the other end of the track where the workspace is isolated from the outside world. Ok, maybe not threshers but you get the idea.
I think there are some theoretical possibilities but they rely strongly on locking and unlocking a path for dwarf and minecart.
Well planned job permissions. For example, only plant threshers are allowed to haul food and work with vehicles. They deliver and instantly start work on the other end of the track where the workspace is isolated from the outside world. Ok, maybe not threshers but you get the idea.
So. How the hell do you actually use these things? '-'You need stockpiles on both the start and the end (unless you do auto-dump at the track stop). Minecarts are made at a carpenter's (at first). Tracks can be engraved in stone floors. You need to set 'h'auling routes for minecarts to be used. That's the basics, the rest the user interface should guide you through.
I'm not able to test this right now, but has anyone used the "guide" option to go up ramps? Does that seem to be effective? Seems like the best way to move magma up quickly is just to set up a track and have dwarves guide carts full of magma up to the surface.
I tried sending a cart with a rider down a 25z ramp and across the cavern lake (north to south):
I've found something interesting. In trying to build a shotgun, I've built a long ramp, a row of fortifications, and then a depot. You know, so I can fire wooden crafts at the elves. Except it was the dwarven caravan who happened to arrive. And it was iron spears.
So, first test fire:
1: A caravan marksdwarf is accidentally standing on the track instead of remaining in the depot.
2: The cart barrels down the constructed hill and slams into the marksdwarf at a rate of about 2 ticks per tile.
3: The marksdwarf is sent flying through the fortifications!
4: The iron spears shotgun out, and strike the marksdwarf while the dwarf is in flight multiple times.
5: The dwarf hits the bridge at the other side of the depot and falls to the ground.
Thoroughly epic.
Just started playing DF after a long break, and came back to see that minecarts have been added.Making them go very, very fast into anything that you might want to add lots of kinetic energy to.
So... What's so useful about them, besides moving things faster?
Easy to get sand down to magma sea to make stuff out of glass.
I've found something interesting. In trying to build a shotgun, I've built a long ramp, a row of fortifications, and then a depot. You know, so I can fire wooden crafts at the elves. Except it was the dwarven caravan who happened to arrive. And it was iron spears.
So, first test fire:
1: A caravan marksdwarf is accidentally standing on the track instead of remaining in the depot.
2: The cart barrels down the constructed hill and slams into the marksdwarf at a rate of about 2 ticks per tile.
3: The marksdwarf is sent flying through the fortifications!
4: The iron spears shotgun out, and strike the marksdwarf while the dwarf is in flight multiple times.
5: The dwarf hits the bridge at the other side of the depot and falls to the ground.
Thoroughly epic.
Just started playing DF after a long break, and came back to see that minecarts have been added.Making them go very, very fast into anything that you might want to add lots of kinetic energy to.
So... What's so useful about them, besides moving things faster?
Just started playing DF after a long break, and came back to see that minecarts have been added.
So... What's so useful about them, besides moving things faster?
When building tracks, do you build them in the direction you want the cart to go, or the direction of the source?
Been working on some minecart + water science.
Setup #1: Simple flat track going down ramp through a brook (4 tiles wide), up ramp to the other side, where it should dump water into a pit. No rollers. Orders are to push.
Result: Dry run test (river bed empty) resulted in the cart just barely getting up the hill on the other side. More power needed.
Setup #2: Kept same design, but put rollers in the bottom of the brook. Dry run caused the cart to succeed in getting to its destination under its own power. However, with water, it filled up and made to the ramp out of the water, but couldn't get up the hill. Instead, it just kept going partway up, then sliding back down, before the roller next to it tried to push it up again. Inspecting the cart did reveal that it was full of water, but that it weighed 479 Urists (459 of which was the water).
Setup #3: Built a 7z level tall super ramp to try to give it enough momentum to get over the other side. A dry test launched the cart airborne, overshooting the stop by at least 20 tiles before colliding with a mountain. However, the results were not better with the water. Even with rollers in the riverbed, it still couldn't make it over.
Setup #4: Kept the tower, but reduced the tiles underwater to just one track ramp. With the water, it zipped through the ramp and went airborne, but did not collect any water. (It did get a water coating, however).
Setup #5: Expanded the underwater region of the track to two track ramps adjacent to each other. However, this was still too much for it to handle, resulting it stalling at the bottom of the track.
Conclusions: The weight of the water is what kills momentum when sending a cart through it. It may be difficult but possible to get the balance just right where you can send a cart to collect water and not have it stall immediately (someone earlier in the thread was skipping minecarts, so it seems possible).
Also, minecarts that are full of water are useless, as far as I can tell.
Guiding the minecarts (I think) did get them to the end, where they did dump out their contents - however it was only 2/7 worth of it. I'm not sure minecart towers will replace pump stacks anytime soon.
Any suggestions on how to fix?
Posting to watch.
Posting to watch.You can just mark the thead as to "Notify" you without posting.
anyone have any luck with getting minecarts to go up a ramp under the power of a roller? eg: when not being pushed (which I have seen work)
anyone have any luck with getting minecarts to go up a ramp under the power of a roller? eg: when not being pushed (which I have seen work)
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3284069#msg3284069
Posting to watch.You can just mark the thead as to "Notify" you without posting.
Slopes are buggy, so my first instinct would be to put a flat tile between the two slopes on each side. So the side looks like
_
\_
\___
===#==
<<<<.with < being a roller and its direction, # being the fortification and = a wall section. They come from below in this diagram.#########
======Fp#
#######D#
cart comes from left, kicked by a dwarf, full of stone,
F is fortification, D is door to swine caveWell, first try nothing happened, turns out I forgot to engrave the fortification. It had taken a bit of time to load up the cart the first time, so I didn't shut down the hauling route, assuming the engraver would be gone in plenty of time. Turns out the cart was still full, and he got smashed twice before I figured out what was going on, smashing his left arm and bruising his liver. He crawled off, vomiting, and I got someone else to engrave the fortification. No luck. Stones do not fly out of a cart through fortifications when the cart is kicked by a dwarf, I'll try rollers next. I removed the fortification, and just mashed the pig. It took three hits to kill it.I'm not sure minecart towers will replace pump stacks anytime soon.
Been working on some minecart + water science.
Setup #1: Simple flat track going down ramp through a brook (4 tiles wide), up ramp to the other side, where it should dump water into a pit. No rollers. Orders are to push.
Result: Dry run test (river bed empty) resulted in the cart just barely getting up the hill on the other side. More power needed.
Setup #2: Kept same design, but put rollers in the bottom of the brook. Dry run caused the cart to succeed in getting to its destination under its own power. However, with water, it filled up and made to the ramp out of the water, but couldn't get up the hill. Instead, it just kept going partway up, then sliding back down, before the roller next to it tried to push it up again. Inspecting the cart did reveal that it was full of water, but that it weighed 479 Urists (459 of which was the water).
Setup #3: Built a 7z level tall super ramp to try to give it enough momentum to get over the other side. A dry test launched the cart airborne, overshooting the stop by at least 20 tiles before colliding with a mountain. However, the results were not better with the water. Even with rollers in the riverbed, it still couldn't make it over.
Setup #4: Kept the tower, but reduced the tiles underwater to just one track ramp. With the water, it zipped through the ramp and went airborne, but did not collect any water. (It did get a water coating, however).
Setup #5: Expanded the underwater region of the track to two track ramps adjacent to each other. However, this was still too much for it to handle, resulting it stalling at the bottom of the track.
Conclusions: The weight of the water is what kills momentum when sending a cart through it. It may be difficult but possible to get the balance just right where you can send a cart to collect water and not have it stall immediately (someone earlier in the thread was skipping minecarts, so it seems possible).
Also, minecarts that are full of water are useless, as far as I can tell.
Guiding the minecarts (I think) did get them to the end, where they did dump out their contents - however it was only 2/7 worth of it. I'm not sure minecart towers will replace pump stacks anytime soon.
Have you (or someone else) tried to have a powered roller that is completely submerged by water/magma? I guess that should make it possible to move the minecart through the liquid
Posting to watch.You can just mark the thead as to "Notify" you without posting.
I had a stop, 5x long roller, and 5x consecutive ramps ending in a 1 long track hitting a fortification. All tracks were N/S and all rollers were S with maximum velocity. Rollers are currently bugged and always function at full power.
I achieved critical spearthrowing damage with this design.
If you're not getting objects to launch, then I suggest increasing the velocity.
Also, why would you want anythig less than full power on the carts?
Also, why would you want anythig less than full power on the carts?
If you're not getting objects to launch, then I suggest increasing the velocity.
By the way, it looks like we can easily move minor quantities of magma anywhere now, without pistons/pumps. Just fill some minecarts with it and assign them to be emptied where you need. Three minecarts must be enough for magma forge.
Posting to watch.You can just mark the thead as to "Notify" you without posting.
By the way, it looks like we can easily move minor quantities of magma anywhere now, without pistons/pumps. Just fill some minecarts with it and assign them to be emptied where you need. Three minecarts must be enough for magma forge.
Can you do the same with wheelbarrows?
I foresee a bolt-splitter here, if you put a werecreature on a cart and position your marksdwarves far enough away, you could have them fire at the werebeast, miss, and collect their unstacked bolts. Either for melting or for loading into minecarts - they don't unstack when launched off a cart, but if they're already singular then that'll work.
...has anyone determined the most efficent way of achieving content launching for causing terminal perforations on invaders...?
Nothing about content physics.Read the previous dev logs, specfically the one on 10 May 2012. Toady has definitely written about stuff flying out of carts on derail.
gF-^^^^^=====#Yep, I've got shotgun action working in my test fort with this setup, but replacing the fortification with a track ramp pointed North only (to continue girlinhat's example) and a wall to make the ramp valid. Since I'm loading rocks, this sometimes means the minecart itself isn't launched, just the contents (dwarf and rocks). There is some randomness in the horizontal component of velocity, i.e. they spread out, grapeshot style as advertised.
This is my design, poorly explained. - is rail, ^ are ramps up, = are rollers, # is the constructed stop. Keep in mind that the ramps actually go up, so this isn't all flat, it's spread over several Z levels.
1: The cart is on the stop, with the orders "Load spears, wait until full, push south" (my actual design faces north to south but it's the same thing).
2: The rollers are bugged and always on, so as soon as the cart hits the rollers it gains speed at "Fastest".
3: The cart goes downhill very fast.
4: The final piece of track at the very bottom is a 1 long N/S rail - NOT just north NOR just south.
5: The cart hits the fortification and contents spill out violently.
This is currently triggered by me manually editing the hauling route and changing it to "at 0%". When rollers are fixed, then the rollers will be on a lever so that the cart rests atop the rollers idly until the lever is pulled, power is supplied, and the cart is launched.
The only things I can think to note here are that the cart slams directly into a fortification while on a N/S rail, and that the cart is traveling about 2 ticks per tile. I followed it, paused, and hit . to count, it obtains ludicrous speeds.
Two sets of 10 rollers and then 2 tiles then fortification. Was all on the flat though. I also think that 10 rollers is the max acceleration you can provide - well, off a cliff 10 rollers pushed a cart no further forward than 20. In any case, perhaps it's item dependent. Refuse and corpses didn't fly either :(
Agreed: minecarts can't achieve 'escape velocity' on just rollers. Use ramps afterwards to really get speed going. I only needed some 6 z-levels, I'm sure SCIENCE will be done in short order to find out the right z-levels for the most popular 'shotgun payloads'.Two sets of 10 rollers and then 2 tiles then fortification. Was all on the flat though. I also think that 10 rollers is the max acceleration you can provide - well, off a cliff 10 rollers pushed a cart no further forward than 20. In any case, perhaps it's item dependent. Refuse and corpses didn't fly either :(
Per devlog, rollers only take carts up to a max velocity. You have to use ramps to break the cap, as far as I can tell.
So yeah, make sure you have a nice, long roller coaster down to the circus before opening it and sending your whale-filled carts down there.
Oh, I just remembered: there may need to be an absence of ceilings for shotgun to work. Let me test that right now...Confirmed: no shotgun if there's a ceiling above my 'launch pad'.
-A dwarf carrying a baby will drop it when they board a cart.How could anybody miss this? It's the perfect way to reduce fort population!
-A dwarf carrying a baby will drop it when they board a cart.How could anybody miss this? It's the perfect way to reduce fort population!
My research provided absolutely crazy result. Again.So I noticed no one replied to this (except the Dwarven Quantum Entaglement remark) and it would seem that water effectivly transfers KE like a newton ball. Can someone confirm?
So, I have a water-filled channel with ramps and a roller. Minecart number one stands on the end ramp. Minecart number two is pushed into the channel from the beginning.
Guess what?
They do not collide. When minecart 2 touches the roller, minecart 1 suddenly gains speed and flies up the ramp.
They are 50 tiles away from each other.
So I noticed no one replied to this (except the Dwarven Quantum Entaglement remark) and it would seem that water effectivly transfers KE like a newton ball. Can someone confirm?
gF-^^^^^=====#
I got it to work. Try removing the ceiling, and also make sure that the last track isn't an end piece. Not sure if both are necessary, but I did both and it worked, the sow got hammered with a cartload of rocks, breaking most limbs and bruising the liver, a kidney, and a lung.gF-^^^^^=====#
Thank You, but I don't understand how this thing works...
I have tried 5 & 6 z-high ramp with 5-tile roller booster powered & unpowered, I have tried loop booster with 5 & 6 z-high ramp & nothing.
What kind of magic did you use? =)
So how do bridges work with tracks? I need to make a bridge to prevent derailing on one track but then open up for another.
Holy hell. A kea just took one of my stopped minecarts RIGHT OFF THE TRACKS.Those damn rhesus macaque also steal minecarts.
I haven't got a shotgun working yet due to shoddy building practices, but assuming the GIH railcannon design works, what do we do for ammo?
Spears seems the obvious choice, but what about picks? And while the sharp stuff has obvious appeal, has anyone shotgunned a cart full of silver maces?
gF-^^^^^=====#
This is my design, poorly explained. - is rail, ^ are ramps up, = are rollers, # is the constructed stop. Keep in mind that the ramps actually go up, so this isn't all flat, it's spread over several Z levels.
1: The cart is on the stop, with the orders "Load spears, wait until full, push south" (my actual design faces north to south but it's the same thing).
2: The rollers are bugged and always on, so as soon as the cart hits the rollers it gains speed at "Fastest".
3: The cart goes downhill very fast.
4: The final piece of track at the very bottom is a 1 long N/S rail - NOT just north NOR just south.
5: The cart hits the fortification and contents spill out violently.
This is currently triggered by me manually editing the hauling route and changing it to "at 0%". When rollers are fixed, then the rollers will be on a lever so that the cart rests atop the rollers idly until the lever is pulled, power is supplied, and the cart is launched.
The only things I can think to note here are that the cart slams directly into a fortification while on a N/S rail, and that the cart is traveling about 2 ticks per tile. I followed it, paused, and hit . to count, it obtains ludicrous speeds.
Rollers may apparently be placed on ramps to help pull carts up Z levels.
I'm not able to test this right now, but has anyone used the "guide" option to go up ramps? Does that seem to be effective? Seems like the best way to move magma up quickly is just to set up a track and have dwarves guide carts full of magma up to the surface.Discovery: dwarves will not push a cart directly down a ramp. As in, there has to be a square of non-ramp track for it to get pushed onto before the dwarves will push it.
So how do bridges work with tracks? I need to make a bridge to prevent derailing on one track but then open up for another.Yeah, if you put a retracting bridge over a turn. Then when the bridge is down, carts go strait. When retracted they turn.
Question. In the context of stockpiles, what are minecarts considered? I know theyre furniture, but I can't find a minecart option. I'm trying to keep minecarts out of the stockpiles that are put into quantum piles, as minecarts 'stack' when on top of each other.The next update will add minecarts and wheelbarrows into the custom stockpile options.
Well, I' underwhelmed. I found a vampire, so I decided to let my minecart do the execution.Try it with a minecart made out of whatever material the vampire's weak against.
[...]
Holy hell. A kea just took one of my stopped minecarts RIGHT OFF THE TRACKS.If it grips it by the chassis...
"Are you suggesting minecarts migrate?"
To my knowledge, only werebeasts get that. Vampires are universally strong to all materials.Well, I' underwhelmed. I found a vampire, so I decided to let my minecart do the execution.Try it with a minecart made out of whatever material the vampire's weak against.
[...]
For maximum ‼Fun‼, I think a bunch of ‼lignite blocks‼ would be the way to go. Sure, it will probably lead to more ...collateral damage, but who cares about that stuff anyway?I haven't got a shotgun working yet due to shoddy building practices, but assuming the GIH railcannon design works, what do we do for ammo?
Spears seems the obvious choice, but what about picks? And while the sharp stuff has obvious appeal, has anyone shotgunned a cart full of silver maces?
For that matter, how about stones? or crafts? or fluffy wamblers?
Holy hell. A kea just took one of my stopped minecarts RIGHT OFF THE TRACKS.What.
I've done a bit of science, which will probably have to be redone with the upcoming rollers tweak.
I built a track to test how far a cart goes when pushed by a dwarf, and when rollers are added:DATA:Spoiler (click to show/hide)It seems weight and dwarf speed make no difference in travel distance. It tried vanilla, SPEED:1, empty, and loaded with rocks. No observable difference when pushed. Rollers seem to work weirdly. Adding 1 highest speed roller adds 43 tiles traveled, adding another adds 60, another adds 12, another adds 19, another adds 33.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I dropped minecart in shaft from 40+ z-level high on the ramp & minecart doesn't continue its movement it's just stuck on ramp tile =/
I dropped minecart in shaft from 40+ z-level high on the ramp & minecart doesn't continue its movement it's just stuck on ramp tile =/
Try putting a roller at the bottom of the drop?
I guess in my next fort I'll definitely embark with a doctor. I have no idea how the dwarfs manage to ride a heavy cart of flat ground faster than their friends can dogde away...
!!SCIENCE!! A four-ramp drop and then 20 rollers WILL shotgun bolts through a fortification. I could see lining an entrance hallway with fortifications and carts filled with bolts. Excessively complex, but it would be funny, I guess.
Remove the roof above the shotgun.
!!SCIENCE!! A four-ramp drop and then 20 rollers WILL shotgun bolts through a fortification. I could see lining an entrance hallway with fortifications and carts filled with bolts. Excessively complex, but it would be funny, I guess.
Cool, but it didn't work =/ I build even 30 rollers & nothing. What's wrong with it? Am I playing different game? =)
0.34.09 was released a couple of hours ago.
There seems to be a bug where when a cart moves over a roller, as well as accelerating that cart, every other cart on a track is accelerated in the same direction. This explains why my carts keep flying off the track, or suddenly speed up/slow down.
Has anybody else found this? It's clearly a bug, but I can't make sense of the bugtracker.
...
So uh, how do I fix the route problem where my dwarf is just hauling a cart diagnolly instead of pushing it down my tracks? I don't have the fort in question anymore, but I had a long stretch of track going through a hallway then turning south at a corner, going to the other end. Stop A in the north west, stop B in the south east essentially, yet my dorf just picks up the thing and runs through my hallways with it.
What.
Upload a save game file that demonstrates the bug, and post the link here. Someone else can then assist with the bug tracker.
So uh, how do I fix the route problem where my dwarf is just hauling a cart diagnolly instead of pushing it down my tracks? I don't have the fort in question anymore, but I had a long stretch of track going through a hallway then turning south at a corner, going to the other end. Stop A in the north west, stop B in the south east essentially, yet my dorf just picks up the thing and runs through my hallways with it.Try setting a hauling point at each corner for both directions of travel. For a track shaped like:
What.
B--------A
|
|
Cyou need 4 stops (from the h-s menu, not b-C-S). One at A, marked ride west whenever, one at B marked ride south immediately always, one at C marked ride north immediately when empty (or whatever) and another at B, marked ride east immediately always.
when a cart moves over a roller, as well as accelerating that cart, every other cart on a track is accelerated in the same direction.
Is manual unloading of minecarts via "give to stockpile" broken for everybody or it`s just me doing something wrong? The only way I can empty the minecart is to dump the contents on a stop.
Is manual unloading of minecarts via "give to stockpile" broken for everybody or it`s just me doing something wrong? The only way I can empty the minecart is to dump the contents on a stop.
I had this same experience in .08. I can't test it now, but is it any different in .09?
Is manual unloading of minecarts via "give to stockpile" broken for everybody or it`s just me doing something wrong? The only way I can empty the minecart is to dump the contents on a stop.
I had this same experience in .08. I can't test it now, but is it any different in .09?
I was unloading just fine in 08. Did you remember to set a stockpile link from your route>stop panel?
Rather than a ramp to the bottom of a fort, can you just plunge a cart down a hole and have it land on a track with, say, rollers, and then it keeps going to its destination? You could then define another track to return it to the surface, or just let a dwarf cart the cart.Yes. But it won't be going extremely fast when it gets to the bottom.
Did a bit more science with pushed carts (no rollers so far). A pushed cart goes 18 tiles when every tile is a turn. They go 179 tiles when only two tiles are turns (ran out of room in my 2x2 embark).
If my math is right, turns apply about 11 times as much friction as ordinary track tiles, and if I had a larger embark area the cart would have gone about 200 tiles in a straight line.
We need a way to describe a cart's speed. The obvious is direct velocity (tiles per tick or the inverse, whichever is more convenient), but since pushed cart travel seems to be at uniform speed, with cart weight, material, and dwarf strength and speed having no effect, I think a more useful descriptive unit would be how far the cart will travel in a straight line. Thus a pushed cart travels at a speed of 200. I'll do a bit of research on rollers and ramps and what speeds they generate, and I think I'll end up reporting it all in tiles traveled.
Why would digging a tunnel out not be practical?
Engineering is science applied.
I have confirmed that carts still don't go up ramps properly.
For anyone who doesn't know what this means, to get a cart to go up a track-ramp, you have to make the ramp's track direction only go in the uphill direction. For instance, if you have a cart going north up a hill instead of building a NS track-ramp, build a N track-ramp.
One dwarf was harmed by a minecart in the confirmation of this fact.
edit: Wait.. not sure that loading duties CAN be turned off. Hauling/pushing can be, yes....
Perhaps NS track ramp are for going uphill to the north and uphill to the south, not uphill to the north and flat to the south? Not like that's a useful way to place rails.
# wall
/,\,- tracks
C - cart
#
/------C
\-------
#
#
C-------
\-------
#
#
/-------
C-------
#
#
C-------
\-------
#
The cart goes forever, and if creatures will happily path through it. Striking creatures does not slow the cart. I ordered a dwarf to pasture a pig there, and he passed out on the track and was struck 20 times before I could pause. He managed to get out of there somehow, but another dwarf came to try and pasture the pig, and was killed in seconds. You could conceivably use this as an invader trap, though you would have to be careful to keep pets and dwarves out.We need a way to describe a cart's speed. The obvious is direct velocity (tiles per tick or the inverse, whichever is more convenient), but since pushed cart travel seems to be at uniform speed, with cart weight, material, and dwarf strength and speed having no effect, I think a more useful descriptive unit would be how far the cart will travel in a straight line. Thus a pushed cart travels at a speed of 200.Stop - do not call that "speed". Call it momentum, impulse or even displacement-if-straight-line. Anything but "speed" as that will confuse the heck out of readers. What you've described is definitely a useful standard to measure on various minecart scenarios, but "speed" is the wrong word for it.
Has Toady said something about the Profile Management of a Track Stop? I mean...To allow only a single dwarf to use a certain track stop to load/unload/ride?
I have contructed (not carved, not sure now if it is even possible?) the NS ramp...
===
=====RW__
I'm dropping minecart from 40+ z-levels & it hit the roller & move forward. Nothing unexpected.
So minecarts will continue on a track after falling?Minecarts will lose all forward speed when you drop them down a chute (but not if you let them fly forward and land on the track). Carts that land on rollers get pushed by the rollers. Carts that land on ramps do not roll down the ramp
Is there a limit to how far they can fall? Are there any unexpected consequences of dropping a minecart down a shaft to an area you need it? It's not going to just explode after hitting the ground after a 100 z-level drop, is it?
I noticed a weird thing with rollers. I had both E->W and N->S rollers active in the same room, linked to the same power source, and when I tried to use the N/S track the cart went very fast off rails diagonally SW from the cart stop. Deconstructing the E-W roller stopped this behavior. Apparently carts do not have to actually be on the roller to be influenced by it, and differently facing rollers can add the force vector together. I don't know what the limits of this are yet (does it work across the map?) but this is surely not intended behavior.
Minecarts will lose all forward speed when you drop them down a chute (but not if you let them fly forward and land on the track). Carts that land on rollers get pushed by the rollers. Carts that land on ramps do not roll down the ramp
Side view
XXXXXXXXXX X = wall
___ XXXXX _ = track
XXX XXXX
XXXX XXX
XXXX XXX
XXXXX XX
XXXXX XX
XXXXX XX
XXXXXX X
XXXXXX X
XXXXXX X
XXXXXX X
XXXXXX X
XXXXXX____
XXXXXXXXXX
Minecart-related question! Has anyone else had issues with minecarts brought with them at embark? I brought ten to my current fort, but only one has ever been listed as available for use.Are they the same type? I've noticed that if I have 5 silver and one platinum minecart (for density) it only shows a silver minecart and a platinum minecart.
RDWWRDWWRDWWRDWWRD
WRDWWRDWWRDWWRDWWR
WWRDWWRDWWRDWWRDWW
WWWRDWWRDWWRDWWRDW
RDWWRDWWRDWWRDWWRD
WRDWWRDWWRDWWRDWWR
WWRDWWRDWWRDWWRDWW
WWWRDWWRDWWRDWWRDW
RDWWRDWWRDWWRDWWRD
WRDWWRDWWRDWWRDWWR
WWRDWWRDWWRDWWRDWW
WWWRDWWRDWWRDWWRDW
TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
Legend (Above only):TTTTTTiTR2WW
WWWWWWWWWR1W
WWWWWWWWWWRX
WWWWWWWWWWWR
WWWWWWWWWWWW
WATER->I1aXW
WATER->WWWWWW
WATER->IA2bXW
WATER->WWWWWW
WATER->IB3cXW
WWWWWWWWWWWWW
Legend (Basic Unit):Haven't gotten exact data but 10 rollers at highest setting will accelerate a cart from a standstill to climb at least 8 ramps. I would have found the maximum, but I dug into the aquifer from the bottom while expanding my ramp.
Just a dwarf pushing it is NOT enough, and it will come back and smash him, though people said that guiding it works.
EDIT: this is with ordinary carved ramps that go both directions. 1 way ramps do not seem to be necessary or helpful.
EDIT 2: well I feel stupid, I meant 10 rollers, not one roller. 1 roller at highest rolls a cart up 1 (but not 2) ramps. I suspect each roller gives about a ramp's worth of impulse.
EDIT 3: weird, unable to replicate that result in another fortress. This time 10 rollers on highest lift it up 1 and only 1 ramp. The only difference I can see is that this ramp is N/S with S uphill while the other was E/W with W uphill. They are two way ramps, which didn't matter last time I tried this.
EDIT 4: E/W ramps only get one ramp of lift too. Using one way ramps prevents carts from climbing at all (I think).
Can anyone improve on this system for filling carts with liquid?
(http://i.imgur.com/wrQqM.png)
The cart runs over a grate laid over a hole, not a grate laid over track laid over a hole. The cart can pass over several grates guided by walls before rerailing itself.
The floodgate can be opened to refill the cistern when it's empty, but if you leave it open all the time, you end up with overflow that pushes the cart off the track.
Can anyone improve on this system for filling carts with liquid?Why do you fill the cart from upper z-level? It just needs to be submerged into a tile of water. I think you can remove the second pump and replace the wall under it with wall grate. Also I`d try to use a wall grate from other side instead of floor grate to avoid gaps in the tracks, and the water would flow from left to right, not from top to bottom, but I`m not sure how the flow would affect minecart.
Does crashed fluid cart send a shotgun style? Are obsidian collides possible?Hmm. If we make two parallel tracks, set two stops with drop order and launch two minecarts with water and magma simultaneously... And if the drop point is hanging in the air...
If they accelerate, you could drop one component (say magma) from a height, and the other component (water) from lower, and have the higher component by virtue of the higher velocity overtake the lower oneHey, that won`t work even IRL! Gravitational acceleration is a constant, and air resistance is what only matters, but I don`t think it is calculated in DF :) So we must find some hard way to mix fluids in air, or just drop them to be mixed directly on target.
That will indeed work IRL.
Does crashed fluid cart send a shotgun style? Are obsidian collides possible?
This begs the question - if the magma flies out as one projectile... then reverts to 2/7 liquid on contact... how deadly would magma projectiles be, especially against squads, who would then have to navigate dropped magma along the way?
The magma [833] strikes Goblin 9 in the lower body, bruising the muscle and bruising the guts!
You have been encased in cooling lava.Yes, in that order.
You empty the iron minecart.
QuoteYou have been encased in cooling lava.Yes, in that order.
You empty the iron minecart.
It appears that magma-full minecarts can travel underwater or be doused with water with no change to the contents.
Dumping the contents while underwater leads to interesting results.
QuoteYou have been encased in cooling lava.Yes, in that order.
You empty the iron minecart.
It appears that magma-full minecarts can travel underwater or be doused with water with no change to the contents.
Dumping the contents while underwater leads to interesting results.
That's a rather interesting way to die...
I haven't found carts to be very useful for ore or stone in most situations, but I had a fort in which I had an obsidian layer that was used for all stone objects, and a track linking it to the stone shops, and I can see carts being useful for magnetite or kaolinite deposits. Also, dwarves use wheelbarrows for moving stone to stockpiles, but not for dumping, so if you want to clear all the loose stone from an area, carts are the way to go, either for taking it to the surface/magma, or just to quantum dump it in a corner.
Overall, I have found carts to be less useful for their obvious purpose, transporting goods over a longer distance, and very very useful for automatic quantum stockpiling.
One of the first things I wanted to try was to set up a chute to drop clay and sand down to magma kilns using a shutter system to try to reduce possible injuries from falling sand. However, I then thought about how it might be better to use a full cart loop so that the goods could be transported all the way back up to surface-level dwarves on the return trip.
It's just... I haven't gotten around to making a two-lane corkscrew track 100 z-levels tall.
I'm surprised there haven't been any attempts at minecart logic yet.
That will indeed work IRL.
If you pick up a magma cart or pick up the magma[833] stack, fiery death ensues.
Why don't you just transport a few tiles worth of magma *up* 100z and use it to place magma workshops near the surface?
Have there been any accidents with drop-chutes? I like the idea of them, but with falling objects now striking creatures, I feel they're inevitable murder machines. Your smelters will eventually get a load of magnetite dumped on their heads. I haven't thought a good way to have bridge appear over a worker's head while he's on quantum stock pile. Pressure plates would work if you could reverse their On and Off signals.
#####
##=##
#.#.#
#^#.#
#+#+#
#.#^#
#.#.#
.....
Where # = wall, Is there any way to get dwarves to always ride minecarts whenever possible, even if they aren't doing a hauling job, and even if there's nothing in the minecart? It would save a lot of time to line the halls with tracks and have dwarves simply take a cart instead of walking.Sort of. You can set the mine cart to leave a stop in zero days even when empty. Anyone with a hauling job will jump on it and take off. But a dwarf pathing to some other job won't use a cart to get where he's going faster.
Is there any way to get dwarves to always ride minecarts whenever possible, even if they aren't doing a hauling job, and even if there's nothing in the minecart? It would save a lot of time to line the halls with tracks and have dwarves simply take a cart instead of walking.Sort of. You can set the mine cart to leave a stop in zero days even when empty. Anyone with a hauling job will jump on it and take off. But a dwarf pathing to some other job won't use a cart to get where he's going faster.
I have been reading this thread for a while, but I might have missed a post or two, so I apologize if this was already asked/answered, but has anyone already used minecarts to bring magma from the magma sea to the surface to create magma based workshops and furnaces? If the answer is yes, how long did it take, and was it considerably easier than putting together a pump stack or creating a small colony closer to the magma sea?
If you pick up a magma cart or pick up the magma[833] stack, fiery death ensues.
I have been reading this thread for a while, but I might have missed a post or two, so I apologize if this was already asked/answered, but has anyone already used minecarts to bring magma from the magma sea to the surface to create magma based workshops and furnaces? If the answer is yes, how long did it take, and was it considerably easier than putting together a pump stack or creating a small colony closer to the magma sea?
I filled a small room with magma, dropped 3 minecarts in it, sealed the room from the magma sea with a small cave-in, drained it from magma and assigned the magma-filled minecarts to a small track on a surface, one by one. The track had a track stop with a dump order. All three minecarts, containing six units of magma, were without any incident transported to surface manually.
But:If you pick up a magma cart or pick up the magma[833] stack, fiery death ensues.
...and I think I need to test my method again in 34.09.
...If you pick up a magma cart or pick up the magma[833] stack, fiery death ensues.
...and I think I need to test my method again in 34.09.
I see. It sounds like it can be troublesome, but worthwhile, thanks. I'll have to do some testing myself.
Not that this is a rant thread, but the way the mine carts operate is totally different from how wheelbarrows work; more than one person loads a mine cart, and they do it haphazardly, so for every stone I want to load I get someone walking 200 tiles just to get to a stone, move it ten squares, and then STOPPING AND WALKING AWAY. The mine carts ought to act like workshops - one dwarf operates it at a time, including loading it and guiding or riding it, and the dwarf keeps operating it until the mine cart has nothing left to do or the dwarf gets hungry. I would not mind having one dwarf load the mine cart if it would help clean up the horrible mess of haphazard hauling tasks.
I hope Toady gets that. The wheelbarrows and bin-hauling let one dwarf pick up a number of things consecutively, but the selection of hauling tasks needs to be fixed.
Hauling the cart, by picking it up with my dwarf's right hand, causes the fat to melt off the right hand, and then other body parts. Bleeding to death soon happens.
Hauling the cart, by picking it up with my dwarf's right hand, causes the fat to melt off the right hand, and then other body parts. Bleeding to death soon happens.
Re-tested too. My mechanic just hauled the cart all the way from magma level to surface, and she is unscratched. The cart is listed in inventory as "hauled".
Then we may have proven that the implementation of carts in fort mode and in the arena (adv mode?) is slightly different.
It's good that we can take cartloads of magma from the depths to the surface, as this makes pumpstacks unnecessary for magma workshops.
A simple repeater - inspired by the 'particle accelerator' seen above.Edit:Cart paths too quickly around the track. Pressure plate never turns 'off'. This can be solved by making the loop wider such that the cart takes 100 ticks to path around;Spoiler (click to show/hide)
II'm trying to figure out how to get a minecart to fill up with magma without it getting stuck and without needing power. There is no way to get any power down where I need it for rollers. I Have the cart dip through a 1 tile ramp channel. It works fine when its empty, but when it is full of magma, it gets stuck. If I pour magma onto a cart from above, does that fill it up too?
Why don't you just transport a few tiles worth of magma *up* 100z and use it to place magma workshops near the surface?
Because that's not as fun!
What do we have minecarts for at all if we aren't going to do unnecessarily complex giant logistics circuits with them?
Just discovered a very unpleasant fact. If there is no access to the end stop of the route (for example, the cart is supposed to fall through the pit, or move through the pressure plates controlled door, and there is no other way to the destination point), the dwarves will not ride it.Try just having one stop, the first one, in a route.
Some testing suggests that we could build a dwarf-powered long distance cart launcher by having a dwarf kick a heavy cart into a light cart, because the kicking appears to set the cart's velocity, while when two carts collide it appears that (one of) the moving cart(s) will stop, and the other cart assumes all momentum and gains a speed proportional to its mass. Further research is required.
how exactly do ramps work? im pushing my cart to the south but it just goes over my NS ramp?
Try just having one stop, the first one, in a route.
...If I pour magma onto a cart from above, does that fill it up too?
Example A: ☼
O╞═ ≡ ═══■══^════════╢╢╢╢O
[s]Example B: bugged
In Ex. A, the pressure plate is a little less than 100 ticks before the rollers; it turns them OFF, then flicks them back ON after the cart reaches the end. This allows the cart to get all the way to the wall, and get powered by ALL the rollers instead of just the first one. (Although, you have to make sure the cart doesn't hit the wall and bounce out past the rollers before they even trigger.)Example C:
O╞═ ≡ ═══■══════╗ . ═╢╢╢╢╢╢╢╗
╚═══════════╝
This returner doesn't need pressure plates. If there isn't enough power in the rollers, the cart won't shoot the gap, and it will just fall in the hole. Probably suitable for a really long or windy track, or if you just love things going at maximum speed.
This will work, but I need the cart to be returned.Just discovered a very unpleasant fact. If there is no access to the end stop of the route (for example, the cart is supposed to fall through the pit, or move through the pressure plates controlled door, and there is no other way to the destination point), the dwarves will not ride it.Try just having one stop, the first one, in a route.
~~~~~
##p##
##P##
=D>D=
##p##
##P##
To expand upon Da Vinci's idea. Sounds good to me. Basically put the cart on rollers in an airlock. Flood it, dry it, open it.
If your minecart are stuck in magma like
___ ___
\_Ш_/
You can hit it out by another one minecart
Can't the rollers be pre built and powered by lavaproof mechanisms before being flooded with lava, as so no minecart gets stuck ever?If your minecart are stuck in magma like
___ ___
\_Ш_/
You can hit it out by another one minecart
Hm, so set up a newton's cradle to get the magma out? First minecart gets stuck, but fills with magma. Second minecart bumps the first one out, but get stuck itself - and filled with magma. Rollers at the top to get the first minecart moving down the track again. Repeat as needed?
Do you want:
a) the dwarf to get off the cart at the far end, and an empty cart is returned.
b) the same dwarf to stay on the cart and be returned.
c) same as (a), except that a different dwarf can use the cart to return.
The first one might be possible by having the cart dump the dwarf (does this work?) and continue moving to return to the start.
The second one is easy, but kind of pointless.
I suspect that you want something like the third option, in which case it probably requires more than one stop.
The Dwarven Child jumps out of the Stray Baby Llama's flight path!
The Ghostly Marksdwarf jumps out of the Stray Baby Llama's flight path!The Stray Baby Llama slams into the Ghostly Wrestler!
The Stray Baby Llama slams into the Dwarven Child!
The Stray Baby Llama slams into the Dwarven Child!
The Stray Baby Llama slams into an obstacle!
The Stray Baby Llama is no longer stunned.
The Stray Baby Llama stands up.So basically, instead of a shotgun I accidentally made a... Supercharged ballista?
Are you sure that you build a fortification at 1 tile far from the ramp? This thing happens when you are build a ramp & fortification at the related tiles.
Like this ___ ___
\_F - Shotgun \F - "Balista"
So basically, instead of a shotgun I accidentally made a... Supercharged ballista?
Are you sure that you build a fortification at 1 tile far from the ramp? This thing happens when you are build a ramp & fortification at the related tiles.
Like this ___ ___
\_F - Shotgun \F - "Balista"
Minecart are "shotguned" & stops on pressure plate. (IDK BUG it or not, but hutch didn't opens when the minecart stops on it =/ Maybe because of shotgun effect? The game aren't check other events after it?)
Do you want:
a) the dwarf to get off the cart at the far end, and an empty cart is returned.
...
The first one might be possible by having the cart dump the dwarf (does this work?) and continue moving to return to the start.
...
The answer is A), but dwarves cannot be dumped.
I`m designing something like Maxwell's demon - two rooms are connected with tracks, and inhabitants of the first room must be transported to the second without letting them to return. Presence of any pedestrian access between said rooms annihilates the idea, but without this access dvarves refuse to ride when I use 2 stops. And when I use 1 stop, the cart cannot be returned to the start for next rider.
Do you want:
a) the dwarf to get off the cart at the far end, and an empty cart is returned.
b) the same dwarf to stay on the cart and be returned.
c) same as (a), except that a different dwarf can use the cart to return.
The first one might be possible by having the cart dump the dwarf (does this work?) and continue moving to return to the start.
The second one is easy, but kind of pointless.
I suspect that you want something like the third option, in which case it probably requires more than one stop.
The answer is A), but dwarves cannot be dumped.
I`m designing something like Maxwell's demon - two rooms are connected with tracks, and inhabitants of the first room must be transported to the second without letting them to return. Presence of any pedestrian access between said rooms annihilates the idea, but without this access dvarves refuse to ride when I use 2 stops. And when I use 1 stop, the cart cannot be returned to the start for next rider.
What if instead of a fortification you put in a retracting wall grate? Can you build that on top of the track? (I think so)
cross-section:
______
═...^▲
█▲≡▲██
▲ are E/W (or N/S) ramps,
≡ is a roller, highest power, facing right
^ is pressure plate. Will remain on so long as power is on.
= is a rail, used only to push a cart into the system. Cart is then forbidden to prevent dorfs from picking up moving vehicles.
Power input is on the lower level, beside the roller. Rollers can not be powered from above.
...
it appears the more power you put into the rollers, the faster they will roll! I just watched as a dwarf calmly pushed a cart on the left hand rail, that one requires 29 power, but is being supplied with 40, 11 excess power. the cart shot off the rail with enough force to cause the dwarf it hit to fly over the moat and detonate upon impact with the wall beyond!the cart is now lodged in the fortifications on the other side of the moat. good lord, THE POWER!!
Quote from another thread, but worth takeing a look at. Anyone have a mega-water-reactor with thousands of power units handy?
...
it appears the more power you put into the rollers, the faster they will roll! I just watched as a dwarf calmly pushed a cart on the left hand rail, that one requires 29 power, but is being supplied with 40, 11 excess power. the cart shot off the rail with enough force to cause the dwarf it hit to fly over the moat and detonate upon impact with the wall beyond!the cart is now lodged in the fortifications on the other side of the moat. good lord, THE POWER!!
Quote from another thread, but worth takeing a look at. Anyone have a mega-water-reactor with thousands of power units handy?
=HPD=<<< v ^ >>^===All this minecart talk and I still can't figure out how to make tracks connect. I've been messing with this one constructed ramp ALL DAY and still can't get these goddamn routes to connect.
How the hell are you people doing it?
Has anyone tried shotgunning magma-filled minecarts yet? :DThe results are reportedly disappointing.
Not yet into minecart, question though: is there a way to get enemies into/ to ride carts? Can you load cages into carts? What happens when an enemy (or dwarf) is dropped onto a stopped (or moving) cart?As yet unknown.
I extended the track the full 240 tiles across the map. 9 are ramp. The rollers are off. At the end I built the following construction:Not sure what you built there exactly, Martin, but it sounds like you're getting some really solid data. Good compromise on measurements, too. Any idea how much friction is caused by the track jump as opposed to simply travelling the loop? Can you graph the velocity deceleration curve for straight tracks? How much do turns slow a cart down?
All this minecart talk and I still can't figure out how to make tracks connect. I've been messing with this one constructed ramp ALL DAY and still can't get these goddamn routes to connect.
How the hell are you people doing it?
Has anyone tried shotgunning magma-filled minecarts yet? :DYes, earlier in this very thread: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3296000#msg3296000
Not yet into minecart, question though: is there a way to get enemies into/ to ride carts? Can you load cages into carts? What happens when an enemy (or dwarf) is dropped onto a stopped (or moving) cart?
XXXXX XXXXXXX
X=====.=====X
X=XXXXX XXX=X
X^GPX XPFvX
X=XXX XXXXX=X
X=====.=====X
XXXXXXX XXXXX1) Toady intended the max cart speed to be 1 tile per tick, but there's a bug causing the cart to exceed this value. I've done some programming along these lines, and dealing with cases where objects travel farther than your sample rate is a lot harder than when objects are limited to your sample rate. I suspect this will be changed, and cart max speed lowered in a future update because of 2) below.Well, I built a circular track for testing purposes and for future use as a repeater. It is exactly 50 tiles in circumference and has a 10-tile roller on one side. I intended for this to reach the maximum minecart speed possible. This ought to work, as the minecart will be accelerated on each pass-through until the maximum is reached, unless the acceleration provided by the rollers is insufficient to compensate for the friction loss of a single pass, in which case the cart should become progressively slower and eventually grind to a halt. It seems to work as intended, and equilibrates at a remarkably constant 103-104 ticks per full turn. I've measured this by dotting manually but have got very good control over this, as I also have a pressure plate tied to both a bridge and a spike for testing purposes. As expected, the bridge changes state just before the minecart passes the pressure plate.
Holy shit.That's how we roll, always finding new ways to kill things.
Toady adds Minecarts, and the community uses them not to transport ore, but to invent Dwarven quantum teleportation, railguns and cyclotrons.
Never change, you mad dwarves.
That's how we roll, always finding new ways to kill ourselves.Fixxored
The minecart was teleported through 13 and 16 tile at this scheme. !NOTICE! Its not 13 an 16 tile from ramp (start of the experiment), its 13 ground tile next behind the first fortification and the 16 tile next behind the second fortification! After the third jumper/fortification was not teleportations at all.
Doctor Urist McBrown: If my calculations are correct, when this minecart hits 88 tiles per hour... you're gonna see some serious shit.An entire hour to get the minecraft across 80 tiles? Sounds awfully slow...
Anyone tried tunneling a cart through the map edge?
X=.WWW
XD_PP.
MMMMMMwhere X is stairs, = is rails with a non dumping track stop pointing towards the empty space (period), D is a door, underscore are floor bars, PP is a pump, manually pumping magma (M) onto the floor bars.If you minecart dump onto a stockpile, the stockpile is not counted as holding the goods, right? When I was testing a minecart dump stockpile would feed workshops happily but seemed to be ignored for hauling to other pile jobs. This is handy, but makes minecart chaining (cart to dump to cart to dump) hard, correct?Did you set the workshop to take from the pile? I think this 'claims' the pile so it doesn't get used as a source for other tasks. Also, I hypothesize that there is something about the hauling setup that links that pile as a destination only for the hauling route. Are you saying that you tried setting other piles to 'take' from that one?
R.===...
I'd like to be able to trigger drawbridges to protect against fliers, but bridges aren't toggleable in the right way. Doors and floodgates would work, but would be susceptible to flying building destroyers. That's fortunately a pretty small subset, but I get at least one pretty much every fortress - at least underground. I could add an inverter, but that's slow and would stretch the whole thing out in order to make the timing work.
S.=======S=.======S===.=.==S===
=
.
=
===SI've had a go at a 'MIRV minecart'. That is, a lead minecart containing three lead minecarts, each of them filled with galena. I let this one descend 24 ramps and then collide with a series of fortification rings. Different carts did indeed release their payload of ore at different layers of the fortifications, with some randomness over several attempts.
...How does that work?
I'm using it as a not-gate for the hatch that shields haulers picking up materials from the dropshaft.
I've miniaturized the cart-based power converter, reducing it in size at the expense of a little power.
Has anyone found out if it is possible to use minecarts as sorting device?
What I mean is tat you use stockpile that collect everything -> loads it on cart -> cart goes along different workshops and drops only somethig from its content (preferably without stopping at each drop).
Or does it always have to drop everything?
I haven't found a way how to force dwarfs unload minecarts by hands. It has to be placed on track stop with dump enabled. Or did I missed something?
Just a thought, but does the minecart shotgun work with corpses, or even just refuse in general?
Hmmm, magma-safe tracks and carts + corpse stockpile = dwarven crematorium?
Has anyone found out if it is possible to use minecarts as sorting device?
What I mean is tat you use stockpile that collect everything -> loads it on cart -> cart goes along different workshops and drops only somethig from its content (preferably without stopping at each drop).
Or does it always have to drop everything?
I haven't found a way how to force dwarfs unload minecarts by hands. It has to be placed on track stop with dump enabled. Or did I missed something?
If you set a friction stop to dump, all the contents will be dumped.
I've miniaturized the cart-based power converter, reducing it in size at the expense of a little power.I think you can save a bit of power if the center gear assembly is replaced with an axle.
█a↓
Pa^
█a↑
where P is power source
a are each gear assemblies
arrows represent rollers and direction of force
^ represents a pressure plate.
There is, of course, NS track along the rightmost column.
Be careful priming this machine. I'm not entirely sure, but I doubt it should be loaded in the active state.
Delay is ~10 ticks to trigger the plate. I'm using it as a not-gate for the hatch that shields haulers picking up materials from the dropshaft.
I think you can save a bit of power if the center gear assembly is replaced with an axle.
If you inspect a ramp [k] and it is built correctly, it will display "Upward Ramp" with no direction note. If it's not built right you'll see "Upward Ramp [NS]" or something along those lines.
You can double check your ramps with this to make sure carts will be pushed up without bouncing back and snapping the spine of the only doctor in the fortress, paralyzing him forever.
Bluddy heck. I've got a nice secluded spot so I can learn how to work tracks and minecarts (and to play a bit of Rollercoaster Tycoon) but I've always been daunted by power and the like and can't figure out how to link my windmill (which is turning) to my roller. :-\
Bluddy heck. I've got a nice secluded spot so I can learn how to work tracks and minecarts (and to play a bit of Rollercoaster Tycoon) but I've always been daunted by power and the like and can't figure out how to link my windmill (which is turning) to my roller. :-\
Bluddy heck. I've got a nice secluded spot so I can learn how to work tracks and minecarts (and to play a bit of Rollercoaster Tycoon) but I've always been daunted by power and the like and can't figure out how to link my windmill (which is turning) to my roller. :-\
Can't connect rollers from above. Connect from the side.
Fuck me. " Windmills may only connect to machinery directly below their center tile. " How could I have missed that. ::)
I imagine placing it on top of a gear assembly attached to the roller would work?
does guided route work even if I don't specify items to be taken, but just list which piles are linked at start and stop?yes, also yes.
also, if I use a stop for multiple routes, can multiple carts wait at the same stop?
I'm trying to have a minecart route to take sand bags from a stockpile next to my glass furnace near the surface, and dump them down a shaft to land near my magma glass furnace down by the magma sea. The problem I have is that 11 sandbags only makes the cart 3% full, and the lowest setting I can set is to have it move when 25% full. It looks like that will be about 100 sandbags, and I don't really want to fill that many. I could just make it go after a time period, regardless of how full it is, but then I'll end up with an empty cart being shuttled back and forth when I'm not doing any glassmaking. That seems kind of silly. Am I missing a way to set the departure condition to something like 5% full? Or some other solution?
I'm trying to have a minecart route to take sand bags from a stockpile next to my glass furnace near the surface, and dump them down a shaft to land near my magma glass furnace down by the magma sea. The problem I have is that 11 sandbags only makes the cart 3% full, and the lowest setting I can set is to have it move when 25% full. It looks like that will be about 100 sandbags, and I don't really want to fill that many. I could just make it go after a time period, regardless of how full it is, but then I'll end up with an empty cart being shuttled back and forth when I'm not doing any glassmaking. That seems kind of silly. Am I missing a way to set the departure condition to something like 5% full? Or some other solution?
I'm trying to have a minecart route to take sand bags from a stockpile next to my glass furnace near the surface, and dump them down a shaft to land near my magma glass furnace down by the magma sea. The problem I have is that 11 sandbags only makes the cart 3% full, and the lowest setting I can set is to have it move when 25% full. It looks like that will be about 100 sandbags, and I don't really want to fill that many. I could just make it go after a time period, regardless of how full it is, but then I'll end up with an empty cart being shuttled back and forth when I'm not doing any glassmaking. That seems kind of silly. Am I missing a way to set the departure condition to something like 5% full? Or some other solution?
Put two conditions down - send it when its 25% full, and send it after 14 days, for example. They'll send it when either condition is met, so if they only get it 5% full after 2 weeks, they'll just send it along.
Put two conditions down - send it when its 25% full, and send it after 14 days, for example. They'll send it when either condition is met, so if they only get it 5% full after 2 weeks, they'll just send it along.
I note a previous post above where someone noted that friction settings below "highest" don't seem to do much. Can anyone elaborate on this?
I've just dug a huge track system to the lava levels, consisting of 4 tracks in parallel. It had to navigate through the pillars in the caverns to avoid breaching them (I'm in a haunted, zombie-filled biome but that's another story). As a result, there are large stretches of straight ramps followed by U-turns on the flat.
Of course, trucks sent down this derail at the first U-turn. I've tried putting a stop at the bottom of the ramp on the flat with "higher" friction, but it does nothing. I can't seem to put track stops on the ramps.
Any ideas to stop the derailments?
I note a previous post above where someone noted that friction settings below "highest" don't seem to do much. Can anyone elaborate on this?
I've just dug a huge track system to the lava levels, consisting of 4 tracks in parallel. It had to navigate through the pillars in the caverns to avoid breaching them (I'm in a haunted, zombie-filled biome but that's another story). As a result, there are large stretches of straight ramps followed by U-turns on the flat.
Of course, trucks sent down this derail at the first U-turn. I've tried putting a stop at the bottom of the ramp on the flat with "higher" friction, but it does nothing. I can't seem to put track stops on the ramps.
Any ideas to stop the derailments?
***W**
**W*F=
*W*F#=
W*F##=
*F###=
*||||*
* is any tile you want, W is wall, F is SE-corner track, = is WE track, # is omnidir track, | is NS trackI note a previous post above where someone noted that friction settings below "highest" don't seem to do much. Can anyone elaborate on this?
I wanted to see whether stops at lower friction levels could be used to control when carts take turns, make jumps over pits, etc since you can hook pressure plates and levers and whatnot to stops. So I created a line with a cart pushed by a dwarf. I put various stops at different settings on the line, and any setting below 'highest friction' at most slowed the cart down by 2 tiles in 100 ticks. The highest would stop it dead.
6) General Observation 3: Once you have defined a stop, you can remove the launch condition, meaning you can have it loaded ready with ammo to fire. Just add a suitable launch condition when the enemy is in range and so long as a hauler is close by, you should have quite fine control over when the shot is taken.
...
3) General observation 2: If you have a cart set to push at 100% capacity, and you change the desired items mid-fill, then it will never reach capacity and never launch. Issue a temporary timed always launch order to despatch the mixed-ammo cart.
...
That's it for now, next tests are to try some metal trap components and spears, and also to see the effects on armoured targets. Any requests welcome, once I've mopped up the blood....again!
I'd like to see statues. Bonus points if they're made out of bituminous coal and on fire.Hmmm, I'm not an expert on controlled fires, so i don't fancy trying that and accidentally killing everyone. I have now set up a fort with six parallel cartcannons covering the approach to the entrance. Unfortunately, the map seems very light on metals, so I'm using bauxite boulders for ammo now, but I've just mined out some platinum, so a perhaps a platinum statue cannon might suffice? They'll certainly be heavy....
Stops can be hooked to levers and pressure plates so you can either deactivate all of the stops when you power the rollers to take the cart back up.
I think people doing large downhill runs are trying to make them too compact.
Stops can be hooked to levers and pressure plates so you can either deactivate all of the stops when you power the rollers to take the cart back up.
I hadn't realized that at all. Thanks for posting, Martin. I had started planning out circuits, which is an arduous way of dealing with the problem, at best.
Anyone found a reliable way to make a pushed cart go down 20+ Z-Levels AND being able to use the same Track to go back up again?
I tried doing 3 ramps, then a u-turn, then 3 ramps etc etc and putting Stops with highest friction on the u-turn. Full cart goes down fine but spills it´s contents somewhere on the way. Empty cart stops at the first Track Stop.
level 0
XXXXX
X╔▲XX
X▼XXX
XXXXX
XXXXX
level -1
XXXXX
XXXXX
X▲XXX
X╚▼XX
XXXXX
level -2
XXXXX
XXXXX
XXX▼X
XX▲╝X
XXXXX
level -3
XXXXX
XX▼╗X
XXX▲X
XXXXX
XXXXX
Continue ad nauseum.
Or hardly compact enough!
Dig a channel straight down from the top to the bottom of your run, and push your carts into the hole. They'll get there, faster than anything!
LIVE AMMO SHOTGUN:
Method has been verified with fort mode testing.
[...]
-Safely (well, for your dwarves) pit creatures in cages without having to open the cages or link them to levers.
2) General observation: if your ammo can be stored in a bin, and you have the source stockpile for the cannon set to have bins, then dwarves will load up whole bins....including the bin, which defeats the point. Solution is of course two stockpiles, a binned pile set to give to an unbinned pile, set to give to the cannon.I have been unable to get the 2-layer stockpile to work. The haulers won't touch the blocks that're in the bins--it seems that they strongly prefer to keep the whole bin intact rather than separate its parts. Instead, I have resorted to minecart-filled quantum stockpiles, which are useful anyway to replenish ammo stores after battle. Actually, a better option might be Urist Da Vinci's work with Live Ammo, which might work for un-binning bins in addition to cages. That'd cut down the hauling jobs for reloading by a factor of 5! (5 blocks per bin), though you'd then have to ensure that ONLY binned ammo is placed in the cart.
5) Spikes/Corkscrews: upping the lethality on highly wooded maps.Have you considered glass corkscrews? With a magma forge, ammo production would require only time.
6) General Observation 3: Once you have defined a stop, you can remove the launch condition, meaning you can have it loaded ready with ammo to fire.The high-precision knob I'm using is to change the departure condition to Guide when I don't want it to fire (credit to Xmoffitt). Because shotguns only have 1 stop, dorfs can't figure out where to guide the cart and will instead just stand ready at the cart when it's fill condition is met. To fire, you just set it to Push and it instantly fires. Just be careful not to set it to Ride unless you want a Live Ammo-augmented shot.
$ W
> W
\ W
\ #___g_g_g_g
\.W
<<<<<W
$ route stop, cart loading place
after loaded the cart is pushed to west and lands on roller
> roller powered by gear activated by lever
the roller and the ramp are made not accesible to dwarves so they can't grab the cart and put it back to route stop
<< powered rollers bringing the cart back
after moving to the left it climbs a ramp with powered rollers and finishes its trip on the route stop where it started
LIVE AMMO SHOTGUN:
Method has been verified with fort mode testing.
1. Make a minecart shotgun (where the cart rams a wall at high speed and the contents are ejected over the wall), but add a second stage (the cart's contents also hit a wall and eject their contents over it).
2. Load a cage containing a creature (animal, goblin, dwarf prisoner, etc.) into the minecart. A single cage holding many animals is best.
3. Fire.
4. Watch as the carts shotgun the cages, and the cages then shotgun the creatures (yes, in a conical pattern) in a parabolic path. The creatures suffer no injury until they land, unlike minecart riders, probably because of cage stasis.
Potential uses:
-Shoot goblin POWs at goblin sieges.
-Shoot zombies (necromancer, not evil region) at goblin sieges.
-Launch impressive swarms of war animals.
-Safely (well, for your dwarves) pit creatures in cages without having to open the cages or link them to levers.
-misc stunts and humor.
...Actually, a better option might be Urist Da Vinci's work with Live Ammo, which might work for un-binning bins in addition to cages. That'd cut down the hauling jobs for reloading by a factor of 5! (5 blocks per bin), though you'd then have to ensure that ONLY binned ammo is placed in the cart.
...
Have you considered glass corkscrews? With a magma forge, ammo production would require only time.The damned map with my cartcannons has by dint of bad luck got no iron (i checked with dfhack prospect, a small cheat I'm sorry for), and not even any tin to make bronze, so glass might be a good option. I'm digging down to the magma at the moment, but it's quite a bad tempered fort due to the constant testing of live ammunition on migrants and the need to sucker the greenskins in close enough with a few decoy dwarves, so progress downwards is slow. A recent tantrum spiral took out 40 or so.
I have the 2-pile system working perfectly; have you made sure the material settings for both piles are identical, and match the desired items for the cannon stop? Also make sure that the stop takes from the binless pile, and the binless pile takes from the binned pile?
So how do minecarts interact with traps (weapon, stonefall, etc?) laid on the trackway?
Yes. See above for some discussion on cart-based power convertors. Computation is performed as usual, with mechanical logic. At present, the most efficient converter uses a 2x2 track loop with a 'hook', a roller and a plate. It costs 7 power, a rope, a cart, and 3 gears, plus additional gears for attached components. Check the wiki (under mechanical logic:talk) for alternate designs.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3315793#msg3315793 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3315793#msg3315793)
Yes. See above for some discussion on cart-based power convertors. Computation is performed as usual, with mechanical logic. At present, the most efficient converter uses a 2x2 track loop with a 'hook', a roller and a plate. It costs 7 power, a rope, a cart, and 3 gears, plus additional gears for attached components. Check the wiki (under mechanical logic:talk) for alternate designs.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3315793#msg3315793 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3315793#msg3315793)
So no minecart logic gates have been designed yet?
I've read about how mine-carts can skip on water and create mist. What if a dwarf was riding a water skipping cart, would the mist give them a happy thought, or would it sink and they die?
What, exactly, are you trying to accomplish, which can't already be done (more efficiently) by mechanical logic?
HS===
.
^
Where:
^ quantum stockpile of stuff, has pressure plate set to be activated by citizens
. empty space
H hatch cover
S=== minecart track with track stop that dump contents into the hatch
the question is what sort of logic / mechanics should I add between the pressure plate and hatch cover to ensure that contents of the minecart never drop on a dwarf's head.
Any ideas?
Presumably a modded cart with an absurdly large volume could drain larger amounts.
Quantum Fluid Generators:
This could be mechanized to create magma generators based on carts driving in circles at high speeds.
...refilling storage tanks...
Any ideas?
>P=<
*-**
Give it a try and let us know. :)
I got a question about sending carts up z-levels:
If I use the spiral ramp design provided in this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3336577#msg3336577) for, let's say 30 z-levels, carve a track and install rollers pushing carts upwards on each level and power them, will I be able to give the cart a single push on the lowest level and as soon as it gets on the ramp spiral with the active rollers it travels up all levels by itself?
█████
██▼╦█
█▲G╦█
█╚▼██
█████
G=gear assembly
╦=roller facing south (there's of course an upward ramp under the southern roller)
Next upper/lower level is basically the same layout rotated 180 degrees.
I'll upload a movie to the DFMA and post instructions later if there's interest for that. Actually building that thing involves some weird steps, mainly because the power supply for it is actually in the middle of the helix (the G).Push - positions a cart at distance of 0.5 from the stop and imbues it with an initial velocity of 200.0 tiles / kilo ticks.
I do have partial results for the values of rollers and ramps. Here is a small preview: rollers accelerate very quickly up to a maximum speed depending on roller strength. Lowest is 131 tiles / kilotick and Low is 200 tiles / kilotick (the same as a push).
It is interesting to note that the delays both increase and decrease as they are trending downward. This points out the exciting fact that both position and speed are tracked by the engine with more precision than integer tiles! However, if you change the X axis to time, you get an even better result.
Are you sure about your units? tiles2/kilotick doesn't sound right for an acceleration. I'd expect your deceleration units to be tiles/kilotick2, or maybe tiles/(kilotick*tick) which is a little more awkard to write, but easier to calculate. Your unit of speed is tiles/kilotick, and the speed changes over time, so acceleration or deceleration should be '(distance/time) / time' or 'distance/(time * time)' (both are the same thing, just different ways of writing it).
Are you sure about your units? tiles2/kilotick doesn't sound right for an acceleration. I'd expect your deceleration units to be tiles/kilotick2, or maybe tiles/(kilotick*tick) which is a little more awkard to write, but easier to calculate. Your unit of speed is tiles/kilotick, and the speed changes over time, so acceleration or deceleration should be '(distance/time) / time' or 'distance/(time * time)' (both are the same thing, just different ways of writing it).
Thank you for catching that error. I edited my post to have the correct units of tiles/(kilotick*tick). The reason I chose such an awkward units is because the values generally came out to such nice integers. This, to me, was a strong indicator that they were in fact numbers that Toady may have typed into his source code.
--snip--
This could be used to make an above-ground structure (such as a floating fortress) have the ability to shoot magma from refilling storage tanks without having to build a pump stack. The "original" magma can be brought up by minecart.
...XX.I.
.TTTTTT.
.R.TT.R.
.R.TT.R.
.R.TT.R.
.R.TT.R.
.R.TT.R^
.R.TT.R.
.R.TT.R.
.R.TT.R.
.TTTTTT.
...XX.O.
[...]
Would I need more rollers?
Basically, I'd like it to work like this - when a lever is pulled, one (or more) minecart per loop starts being rolled by the rollers and going around the loop at an everythingbreaking speed. Goblin invaders or whatnot try to walk on the bridge and get smashed by the minecart.
Pothole BoostersThey work indeed, I have one going at near tile per tick right after acceleration. Strangely, down the ramps cart spends 3 ticks on downward ramp (accelerating one) and one on the upward.
I've never even attempted a pump stack (or anything else requiring 'power'), since as I understand it all the methods used to generate the 'power' in the first place take a huge toll on your FPS, which I can't afford.The one-wheel reactor can be filled up to the point where the all the tiles have a fixed amount of water but the ones under the waterwheel are still classed as 'flowing'. If you have like 200 levels to move the magma then that's a lot of bucketloads, but anything less than a hundred levels shouldn't be too irritating.
Pulling 2/7 of magma one cart at a time up from the magma sea may not be terribly fast, but it seems like something I could set up very quickly and simply, and just let them slowly fill up a surface reservoir over the course of a few months.Are you using the magma for offence, or for workshop power? If it's the latter, you only need twice as many cartloads as there are magma workshops.
I need your help guys.
I have this setup: (side view)Code: [Select]HS===
.
^
Where:
^ quantum stockpile of stuff, has pressure plate set to be activated by citizens
. empty space
H hatch cover
S=== minecart track with track stop that dump contents into the hatch
And the question is what sort of logic / mechanics should I add between the pressure plate and hatch cover to ensure that contents of the minecart never drop on a dwarf's head.
I was thinking about a simple NOT gate but the issue is that the hatch cover will close 100 steps after dwarf enters the pressure plate and this is enough time for an accident.
I was also thinking about installing two hatch covers - one above another, in such a way that when one opens then other closes. The bottom one would open and drop stuff when the plate sends off signal. The problem is again with the fact that NOT gate would sends open signal immediately while CLOSE signal is sent after 100 frame, so for 100 frames both hatches would be open, and again accidents will happen.
So I am thinking and thinking and can't think of a good design.
I already lost my best Mason when 15 stacks of prepared food dropped on him, don't want it to repeat...
Any ideas?
.
.Drop Chute
.
.
# Hatch cover
=+^ Stockpile, Door, Pressure plate linked to stockpile
I've never even attempted a pump stack (or anything else requiring 'power'), since as I understand it all the methods used to generate the 'power' in the first place take a huge toll on your FPS, which I can't afford.The one-wheel reactor can be filled up to the point where the all the tiles have a fixed amount of water but the ones under the waterwheel are still classed as 'flowing'. If you have like 200 levels to move the magma then that's a lot of bucketloads, but anything less than a hundred levels shouldn't be too irritating.
QuotePulling 2/7 of magma one cart at a time up from the magma sea may not be terribly fast, but it seems like something I could set up very quickly and simply, and just let them slowly fill up a surface reservoir over the course of a few months.Are you using the magma for offence, or for workshop power? If it's the latter, you only need twice as many cartloads as there are magma workshops.
I'm actually looking into just covering the surface river with waterwheels, as from your explanation, I take it the river counts as 'flowing' even though the entire river is constantly completely 7/7?
I'm actually looking into just covering the surface river with waterwheels, as from your explanation, I take it the river counts as 'flowing' even though the entire river is constantly completely 7/7?
Nope. If you embark on a major river, you'll notice that the tiles on the 'out' end never get to 7/7.
Yeah, I'm imagining mostly for magma furnaces, so that actually seems pretty fast to get them set up, using guided carts on a 1-tile wide spiral ramp track as soon as I reach magma.
Yeah, I'm imagining mostly for magma furnaces, so that actually seems pretty fast to get them set up, using guided carts on a 1-tile wide spiral ramp track as soon as I reach magma.
I wonder if it is possible to just build a simple staircase, and have the dwarf simply haul the minecart with magma. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that the hauling dwarf would have his hands burned or would even die.
But what is I assign him to a squad and give him +Steel gauntlets+ ?
Even if this wont work, how far would such a dwarf haul the magma minecart before his hands burn? Perhaps he long enough so he could climb the 70z-levels staircase? Then I would both have magma in the suface and patients for my doctor to train on.
Going to test hauling of magma minecarts in the arena now.
I'm actually looking into just covering the surface river with waterwheels, as from your explanation, I take it the river counts as 'flowing' even though the entire river is constantly completely 7/7?The few tiles at the end aren't, but most of the water isn't moving in a way that eats FPS (items that end up in an undisturbed river don't get moved around. Contaminants do, but not anything that's a haulable object. Compare that with the way pump operators can get pushed around by backwash, or the difference in the arena between the water near the map edges and the water near the top of the waterfall). Water created at one end of the map doesn't move from one tile to another, displacing other water as it goes, but looks around for a tile that isn't full of water and appears there instead. For an average four-tile-wide body of water, this means about a dozen squares actively moving water from tile to tile in a way consistent with normal physics.
iron minecart
. iron minecart
. magma [833]I'm pretty sure I've sen it reported that dwarves will carry a minecart loaded with magma up stairs, and do so with no damage. It was probably earlier in this thread, or else in the "Minecarts are for what? No, really. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=110931.0)" thread.
I'm pretty sure I've sen it reported that dwarves will carry a minecart loaded with magma up stairs, and do so with no damage. It was probably earlier in this thread, or else in the "Minecarts are for what? No, really. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=110931.0)" thread.
I did testing in the arena and got some promising results:At the time, I also tested in the arena (the same things that you tried). However, fort mode dwarves have access to a special way of moving the carts that adventurers can't do. If you try riding the cart, for example, you will find that you are undamaged. Guiding it is similar.
...
I did testing in the arena and got some promising results:At the time, I also tested in the arena (the same things that you tried). However, fort mode dwarves have access to a special way of moving the carts that adventurers can't do. If you try riding the cart, for example, you will find that you are undamaged. Guiding it is similar.
...
Overall, this thread has lots of useful information hidden on the earlier pages. In fact, it was created so that people would be able to find information before they have to ask the question. Maybe the wiki is a better place for that then a thread.
I did testing in the arena and got some promising results:At the time, I also tested in the arena (the same things that you tried). However, fort mode dwarves have access to a special way of moving the carts that adventurers can't do. If you try riding the cart, for example, you will find that you are undamaged. Guiding it is similar.
...
Overall, this thread has lots of useful information hidden on the earlier pages. In fact, it was created so that people would be able to find information before they have to ask the question. Maybe the wiki is a better place for that then a thread.
The point of my testing was specificially HAULING of the minecart with magma.
Not guiding, pushing or riding, because they all these require you to build a complex track across many z-levels.
And yeah I know it was tested earlier in this thread that guiding doesn't hurt dwarves while hauling does hurt them.
But noone have found a way to make hauling of magma minecarts safe without the need for a track. While I did.
And yeah I know it was tested earlier in this thread that guiding doesn't hurt dwarves while hauling does hurt them.Nope, to everything.
But noone have found a way to make hauling of magma minecarts safe without the need for a track. While I did.
Here:Even a dwarf armed with axe, one iron shield and six crying shields can haul one additional item, because they use telekinetic powers given to them by fortress collective mind.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3297524#msg3297524
At the time, I also tested in the arena (the same things that you tried). However, fort mode dwarves have access to a special way of moving the carts that adventurers can't do.
Ok, thanks for the info then.
I quite followed this thread from the start but obviously I could skip or forget some stuff people mentioned.
Still I had a lot of creative fun while thinking about my design. :)
And thinking about it, most of it still remains useful:
- Dumping carts onto rails, or having them move from the track directly to the stockpile should save some micromanagement of creating many hauling routes with one minecart each.
- Having the minecarts being moved inside wheelbarrows should make their hauling MUCH faster. They are very heavy when full and dwarves move at about 1/10 speed when hauling full minecart. With wheelbarrow they would move at full speed.
.| _____
../('|' is a wall, '.' -floor, '_' -rails, '/' -ramp)So I just incurred a bug that is probably worth mentioning. I am not entirely sure if its in the bugtracker yet or not, but I told my jewelers to encrust finished goods with yellow spassertine and they did, they picked up full minecarts right off the tracks and encrusted them with gems, the one full of iron bars was particularly annoying since it took an eon to get there and back.but on the upside your railway looks simply fabulous, darling!
So I just incurred a bug that is probably worth mentioning. I am not entirely sure if its in the bugtracker yet or not, but I told my jewelers to encrust finished goods with yellow spassertine and they did, they picked up full minecarts right off the tracks and encrusted them with gems, the one full of iron bars was particularly annoying since it took an eon to get there and back.but on the upside your railway looks simply fabulous, darling!
What is the easiest way to fill up a cart with magma and then move it, without using power.
What is the easiest way to fill up a cart with magma and then move it, without using power.
There is no such way.
You need to have up ramp to move the cart out of reservoir, and the up ramp needs rollers on it, because the magma cart is too heavy to move up without rollers.
But what is the problem with power? Just construct mini power generator. It requires only 1 pump, 1 waterwheel and 4 tiles of 7/7 water.
If you have a couple ramps before the magma to accelerate it prior to entering the magma then it will dip in/out IIRC.I'm not so sure about that. In my tests, the cart went down into the magma but failed to go up one ramp out of it. Though this was on a spiral so maybe all the turns dissipated the momentum.
I have the same problem, but in my case the whole magma-dunk was build in a strait line. Apparently minecarts filled with magma are heavy.If you have a couple ramps before the magma to accelerate it prior to entering the magma then it will dip in/out IIRC.I'm not so sure about that. In my tests, the cart went down into the magma but failed to go up one ramp out of it. Though this was on a spiral so maybe all the turns dissipated the momentum.
You're carts are probably going to be moving too fast to make the turn onto the bridge. The other turns can be done by having walls on the outside of the turn, but there's no room for walls there.
This trick will allow you to move at least 50 000 worth of goods to a trade depot in one hauling job.How does it compare with having a hauling route ending in a dump stop and a quantum stockpile?
How does it compare with having a hauling route ending in a dump stop and a quantum stockpile?With quantum you get one hauling job per each item you want to move to depot, not to mention that you have to select all of them individually.
If you can carve a route straight up, go for it. If not, process the adamantine near the mining site and put the thread in bins to be taken to the smelters. Or if your fortress isn't doing anything else you could just haul the stuff as-is, it's pretty light.'If you can carve a route straight up, go for it.'
If you can carve a route straight up, go for it. If not, process the adamantine near the mining site and put the thread in bins to be taken to the smelters. Or if your fortress isn't doing anything else you could just haul the stuff as-is, it's pretty light.'If you can carve a route straight up, go for it.'
I thought carts could travel from a z-level to another trough ramps only?
Another question: I would like to use cart to bring wood from the main gate of my fortress (point A) to a stockpile near of the main staircase that connects each floors of my fortress (point B). There is a long corridor between A and B (hence the need of a track). However, the ground is made of clay so it is impossible to engrave tracks: I can only build them. According to the wiki, built tracks are single way. Lets say my track is designated for A-->B, how can I bring the cart back to A? (I am not using any rollers...)
Cheers!
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The next level down is an upward ramp followed by some straight track. When I sent a dwarf riding down, he went down the incline fine, rounded the bend without apparent trouble (though I imagine quite quickly) but when he got to the downward ramp at the bottom of the U bend to go to the next level, he and the minecart turned into a fountain of items, combat reports, and blood smears. At one point he even slammed into himself.
Anybody have an idea what might have happened?
I thought carts could travel from a z-level to another trough ramps only?Straight up through the fortress, ie. being able to carve out a path with the minimum of digging or building access ramps.
So that didn't work...
(and I hit post too soon)
I have a minecart track that goes down 30 levels at a 45 degree angle (just ramps next to ramps), then hits a U bend, like this:
You don't need a floor tile even for regular ramps.
Could you be a bit more precise (or refer me to the relevant link)? Thank you!
You can basically use SE,WS,NW, and NE up ramps to create a 2x2 ramp that would relatively go straight up without having to travel horizontally. Might not be roller friendly though.
Tracks go both ways. Always.
You can basically use SE,WS,NW, and NE up ramps to create a 2x2 ramp that would relatively go straight up without having to travel horizontally. Might not be roller friendly though.Basically this would be an helicoidal track?
Ok, thanks for the info then.
I quite followed this thread from the start but obviously I could skip or forget some stuff people mentioned.
Still I had a lot of creative fun while thinking about my design. :)
And thinking about it, most of it still remains useful:
- Dumping carts onto rails, or having them move from the track directly to the stockpile should save some micromanagement of creating many hauling routes with one minecart each.
- Having the minecarts being moved inside wheelbarrows should make their hauling MUCH faster. They are very heavy when full and dwarves move at about 1/10 speed when hauling full minecart. With wheelbarrow they would move at full speed.
I filled a small room with magma, dropped 3 minecarts in it, sealed the room from the magma sea with a small cave-in, drained it from magma and assigned the magma-filled minecarts to a small track on a surface, one by one. The track had a track stop with a dump order. All three minecarts, containing six units of magma, were without any incident transported to surface manually.
But:If you pick up a magma cart or pick up the magma[833] stack, fiery death ensues.
...and I think I need to test my method again in 34.09.
For some reason one of my minecarts is dropping everything it carries on a certain ramp and then continuing onto its destination, the ramp is not a stop on any route, the minecart freely travels to the actual route every time. I have no idea why, the ramp is set up properly and all the track around it is as well, is there some maximum speed for going down ramps?
Will occupants be injured if they ride in a minecart that falls a large distance? I want to know if I can build drop-pods into hell. Alternatively, will a cart hitting a floor grate eject their contents through it?
You can basically use SE,WS,NW, and NE up ramps to create a 2x2 ramp that would relatively go straight up without having to travel horizontally. Might not be roller friendly though.Basically this would be an helicoidal track?
Will occupants be injured if they ride in a minecart that falls a large distance? I want to know if I can build drop-pods into hell. Alternatively, will a cart hitting a floor grate eject their contents through it?
For some reason one of my minecarts is dropping everything it carries on a certain ramp and then continuing onto its destination, the ramp is not a stop on any route, the minecart freely travels to the actual route every time. I have no idea why, the ramp is set up properly and all the track around it is as well, is there some maximum speed for going down ramps?
For some reason one of my minecarts is dropping everything it carries on a certain ramp and then continuing onto its destination, the ramp is not a stop on any route, the minecart freely travels to the actual route every time. I have no idea why, the ramp is set up properly and all the track around it is as well, is there some maximum speed for going down ramps?
I guess I have somewhat mentioned this in some of my posts or maybe not. Carts can get airborne if they accelerate enough, then they hit a wall in front of them, lower their velocity and continue along the track.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anybody have an idea what might have happened?
My question (that I hope hasn't been answered, I've read an awful lot of this thread) is, how fast do the minecarts have to be going to do the shotgun?IIRC 3 z-levels will get you enough to shotgun, how is your trigger setup? (The wall)
I've tried a dozen or so Z levels of ramps, no dice.
Max length roller running at high speed plus two Z levels. No dice.
Am I missing something? Do I just need to have even longer ramps and/or rollers?
Am I messing the ramps up (if the channeling and resulting track are from left to right, you want to build West ramps right?)?
My question (that I hope hasn't been answered, I've read an awful lot of this thread) is, how fast do the minecarts have to be going to do the shotgun?IIRC 3 z-levels will get you enough to shotgun, how is your trigger setup? (The wall)
I've tried a dozen or so Z levels of ramps, no dice.
Max length roller running at high speed plus two Z levels. No dice.
Am I missing something? Do I just need to have even longer ramps and/or rollers?
Am I messing the ramps up (if the channeling and resulting track are from left to right, you want to build West ramps right?)?
If you use the shotgun affect to launch things into a one tile area with a channel that goes straight down for many levels. Would that be an effective way of quantum piling to lower levels?You could just use a track stop that dumps down a channel rather than try and shotgun materials.
wu z=0
wd
-----------
ww z=-1
du
-----------
dw z=-2
uw
-----------
ud z=-3
ww
-----------
etc. where u = up ramp, d = down ramp, w=wall.Also I would like to set the cart to 'ride' when travelling down. As I am planning to do this onPlace track stop at the end and hope cart is too heavy to get airborne.
100 z-levels, what can I do to preventfunnyunfortunate accident?
My question (that I hope hasn't been answered, I've read an awful lot of this thread) is, how fast do the minecarts have to be going to do the shotgun?IIRC 3 z-levels will get you enough to shotgun, how is your trigger setup? (The wall)
I've tried a dozen or so Z levels of ramps, no dice.
Max length roller running at high speed plus two Z levels. No dice.
Am I missing something? Do I just need to have even longer ramps and/or rollers?
Am I messing the ramps up (if the channeling and resulting track are from left to right, you want to build West ramps right?)?
It's, well, a wall. At the end of the tracks, the tracks lead straight into it.
I'm trying to have a minecart route to take sand bags from a stockpile next to my glass furnace near the surface, and dump them down a shaft to land near my magma glass furnace down by the magma sea. The problem I have is that 11 sandbags only makes the cart 3% full, and the lowest setting I can set is to have it move when 25% full. It looks like that will be about 100 sandbags, and I don't really want to fill that many. I could just make it go after a time period, regardless of how full it is, but then I'll end up with an empty cart being shuttled back and forth when I'm not doing any glassmaking. That seems kind of silly. Am I missing a way to set the departure condition to something like 5% full? Or some other solution?
GABR===Where G is a gear bringing power to A. A has tracks, 1 tile of rollers, whichever speed you want (low is equivalent to a dwarven push, high will push your cart about 4 times as far), a hauling route stop with no settings, and minecart A. B has (surprise!) minecart B, tracks, the site of another hauling route stop with the orders to fill up the cart at it, but no push/guide/ride orders. A also has the key to this scheme, a pressure plate that turns on the gear G when triggered. R is another (optional) set of 1-tile rollers, which can be powered continuously if you want. = are tracks going off to the right.Capntastic: There's this question here, I don't know if it's really relevant but I think it'd be interesting for the outtake selection, but someone asking about the flat chains in Banach spaces, which a lot of people are curious about. Did you want to give that a shot? If people want your rambling, they're going to get it.
Toady: I guess so, I guess they well.
Capntastic: 'Dear Dr. Adams, since the upcoming podcast is about science and mathematics is the queen of sciences perhaps you could give in laydwarfs terms a general overview of your PhD dissertation, flat chains in Banach spaces.
Toady: Well let's see what I can remember, it's been a while since I've thought about this stuff, so I'm sure I'm going to forget lots of things.
Menendez: (backing)
Toady: (mathematics in chorus - it doesn't transcribe well) So in general if you've got ... my paper kind of, overall we're considering what are called minminal surfaces so if you take ... given a wire, you've got a minimal surface etcetera, etcetera, so what are the parameters you need? ... It's not the straight line distance between two points anymore but kind of like how far ... If you change the distance function on that, so maybe you've heard of the taxi cab distance in New York City, like how many blocks up, how many blocks over, that kind of thing ... But in any case, I've rambled a bit, but I just generally proved that these minimal surfaces exist in more complicated spaces and there's been a lot of subsequent work, and work that was going on at the same time in more general spaces, all kinds of different stuff. Fascinating, fascinating stuff ... I haven't really been keeping up the past couple of years.
Toady: I guess you could take the twenty minute rambling there, let it ramble for three minutes but then take another minute and a half of the rambling and put it over my original rambling, so it's like there's two of me talking, then put a third one on it, and it'll just kind of degenerate.
I've been noticing some different behavior in the new version in regards to minecart auto-quantum-stockpiling. In .34.11, I could place a minecart stop directly on a constructed track stop, with no track at all, order "push X" where X was the direction the maximum-friction stop was set to dump, and the cart would simply dump right next to it. Now, however, any time the dwarves push the cart, it goes flying off in that direction and has to be retrieved. Was there a change in track-stop mechanics?
I've been noticing some different behavior in the new version in regards to minecart auto-quantum-stockpiling. In .34.11, I could place a minecart stop directly on a constructed track stop, with no track at all, order "push X" where X was the direction the maximum-friction stop was set to dump, and the cart would simply dump right next to it. Now, however, any time the dwarves push the cart, it goes flying off in that direction and has to be retrieved. Was there a change in track-stop mechanics?
What's the best way to reliably load military dwarves into minecarts?
...I deconstructed the track, laid down a highest friction autounloading track stop then placed the route stop on it, telling my dorf to guide once the cart was empty of all desireable items (I set this to all of them, any of them, no matter what. So, empty cart.)
...
It's not acting right because either the cart goes flying (ramp down, three straight, ramp down, etc) or it just goes too fast and it completely blows the track turn. Track stop time.
Huh. It seems to me that fucking around with track stops (breaking the rails) after the cart starts working right will screw up stockpiles associated with the stops, effectively clearing them out. Happened twice, but it could just be them warping away or becoming unseen, IDK.
I'm a bit confused with the whole stockpile system with mine-carts. You see i set up a stockpile at the entrance to a mine to hold coal and hematite, and a linked mine-cart to carry the items to another stockpile deep in my fortress, but my dwarves keep filling in the first mine-cart stockpile from halfway across the map, when i only want the items from the one specific mine.... anyone know how i could remedy this?*Bump* Still need help here.
I'm a bit confused with the whole stockpile system with mine-carts. You see i set up a stockpile at the entrance to a mine to hold coal and hematite, and a linked mine-cart to carry the items to another stockpile deep in my fortress, but my dwarves keep filling in the first mine-cart stockpile from halfway across the map, when i only want the items from the one specific mine.... anyone know how i could remedy this?*Bump* Still need help here.
I think you got something there, but when you say "one bug huge stockpile..." can you elaborate? like, stockpile the entire area underground, through walls and everything?I'm a bit confused with the whole stockpile system with mine-carts. You see i set up a stockpile at the entrance to a mine to hold coal and hematite, and a linked mine-cart to carry the items to another stockpile deep in my fortress, but my dwarves keep filling in the first mine-cart stockpile from halfway across the map, when i only want the items from the one specific mine.... anyone know how i could remedy this?*Bump* Still need help here.
Build other stockpiles closer to the other mines. An open stockpile wants to be filled. Since you can't assign the 'take' order to be from a specific region (merely other stockpiles) ... errr, wait, maybe there is an option, but it's kinda wierd.
Set the stockpile feeding the minecart start to only take from links. Now, just leave it for a bit. Go down to your mine, dig out a nice fat area. Now, stockpile the area there for stones. All of it, one big huge stockpile. Set IT to also only take from links (so your other mines don't start trying to feed this massive stockpile in the middle of nowhere)... but all the rocks already on the stockpile should be considered included in it. Now, set that stockpile to give to the one feeding the minecart.
I think that will work, I've never tried it.
Has anyone suggested some way of making minecart bouncers?
I think you got something there, but when you say "one bug huge stockpile..." can you elaborate? like, stockpile the entire area underground, through walls and everything?I'm a bit confused with the whole stockpile system with mine-carts. You see i set up a stockpile at the entrance to a mine to hold coal and hematite, and a linked mine-cart to carry the items to another stockpile deep in my fortress, but my dwarves keep filling in the first mine-cart stockpile from halfway across the map, when i only want the items from the one specific mine.... anyone know how i could remedy this?*Bump* Still need help here.
Build other stockpiles closer to the other mines. An open stockpile wants to be filled. Since you can't assign the 'take' order to be from a specific region (merely other stockpiles) ... errr, wait, maybe there is an option, but it's kinda wierd.
Set the stockpile feeding the minecart start to only take from links. Now, just leave it for a bit. Go down to your mine, dig out a nice fat area. Now, stockpile the area there for stones. All of it, one big huge stockpile. Set IT to also only take from links (so your other mines don't start trying to feed this massive stockpile in the middle of nowhere)... but all the rocks already on the stockpile should be considered included in it. Now, set that stockpile to give to the one feeding the minecart.
I think that will work, I've never tried it.
wwwww
wtt2#w
wtwtww
w1w_w
_w_ww
1,2 - track stops
t - tracks
w - walls
# - quantum corpse stockpile
I have it set to load at Stop 1 (from multiple nearby corpse stockpiles, set to accept only goblin, kobold & troll bodies & parts) and push north at 25%. Stop 2 has lowest friction and dumps into a pit to the side. The minecart then runs into the wall near Stop 1, and will be carried back to the track stop.
I have just set up my first cart route. No warning in the two, two simple stops on two different levels, the dwarves fill the cart 100%, and then… Nothing. The cart never starts. I tried to set the condition to "when full", "more than 75% full", or even "always", the order to "push", "ride" or "guide", it does not change a thing. Of course, I checked the direction one million times, and it is the good one. I deleted the route, reset it just in case, changed the cart… Once, I even had a dwarf that picked up the cart and start snailing it through the stairs (with a cart full of metal bars in bins, it walked a square every few seconds, and did not go far before I was bored).
After several hours of waiting, testing, and searching the forum, I give up.
Have any idea?
Thanks for the "guide" info : i will stick to "push" and "guide"…
I checked my ramp tracks, and one of them was "S" instead of "NS". Thanks for that tip. How comes I did not get the "! Set dir/connect track" message?
Unfortunately, it seems my dwarves are still not willing to push the cart… I waited a while, and I couldn’t find the job in the list either (don’t know what it is supposed to look like, but I don’t think I would have missed it):'(
One of the things I'll do to test my tracks is set it with a single stop and simply have it pushed immediately, with no load settings. See where it stops/goes awry.A very good advice. Strangely it worked well, even with the loaded cart, but only on an adjacent square. Then I tried again on the original square, and… It worked. These carts seems a bit moody to me… Well, I will see later if I can make it work with a useful route.
My mine cart 'lift' is working. :)Nice example. :)
I've uploaded the map at the archive: http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-11326-wheelauthors-waterfall (http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-11326-wheelauthors-waterfall)
The design is a 3x3 shaft made as a double helix.
The power is transmitted down through the empty central square.
My setup uses a highest speed roller at every second level on the up track, and a high track stop to avoid derailing on every other level on the down track.
I can try to write more about it if there is interest, but I hope the map shows the concept well enough.
My mine cart 'lift' is working. :)I'm wondering what you have going on on level 75.
I've uploaded the map at the archive: http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-11326-wheelauthors-waterfall (http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-11326-wheelauthors-waterfall)
The design is a 3x3 shaft made as a double helix.
The power is transmitted down through the empty central square.
My setup uses a highest speed roller at every second level on the up track, and a high track stop to avoid derailing on every other level on the down track.
I can try to write more about it if there is interest, but I hope the map shows the concept well enough.
My mine cart 'lift' is working. :)Nice example. :)
I've uploaded the map at the archive: http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-11326-wheelauthors-waterfall (http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-11326-wheelauthors-waterfall)
..
But I have to ask:
- How much power does this particular setting require (and how many levels does it take).
- Also, do you have problems with dwarves pathing through this track? Because I don't see any stairs nearby.
- If possible can you count how long does it take for a minecart to go up and down? (even something like 10 seconds with 100 FPS would help if you don't want to count ticks :) )
Yes, you can combine them just fine (though not on the same tile...). I can't what you're doing, based on on what you wrote, but to make tracks work you need the following (carved track for comparison):Whoops, sorry, I'll try to be more clear.
Carved non-ramp track
Carved ramp track
Constructed non-ramp trackSo far so good, was able to do this in a test scenario without a problem to make sure I hadn't lost my mind.
*For straight sections this works something like carved track. You select EW or NS, increase the width or length of the tile area as necessary, and place it in sections of one to ten tiles, or more if you're making parallel tracks. For corners you need to place the tiles one at a time, and select the connection type from the list.
Constructed ramp trackHere's where I'm doing a head-desk. I'll try to be a lot more explicit.
*These always need to be placed one at a time, and you need to select the connection type from the list. As with carved track, the change in z-levels between tiles has no effect on the connection type needed.
You don't need to construct ramps on open space. As with regular constructed ramps, they're only created as up-ramps and the game fills in the down-ramp on the level above. You should be able to construct a ramp while the dwarf is standing on the site -- I've done it before.In this particular case, I wasn't able to. I actually channeled out an adjacent ramp to allow them access. This hints that something I'm doing is wrong.
In this particular case, I wasn't able to. I actually channeled out an adjacent ramp to allow them access. This hints that something I'm doing is wrong.Can you put up a screenshot? If they have a floor tile next to the build site (upramps count as floor), they should definitely be able to build the ramp. Either it'd be supported by the existing floor, or by being connected to the floor tile the dwarf is standing on to do the constructing.
You need a bit of 'flat' track from what I could see to get constructed ramps going, though, so it had something to connect to, or it would complain at me it was 'blocked'.The 'blocked site' message is part of the building process, and should come up if you replace the failing track tiles with regular constructed floor and ramp. It's not a track-specific problem. You can set up routes on nothing but ramped track and set the stops so that there are no yellow !s anywhere on the stop list, but the minecart will roll down the ramp as soon as it's placed.
Can you put up a screenshot? If they have a floor tile next to the build site (upramps count as floor), they should definitely be able to build the ramp. Either it'd be supported by the existing floor, or by being connected to the floor tile the dwarf is standing on to do the constructing.Ah, that was just it, it was a straight ramp, no adjacent floor.
The 'blocked site' message is part of the building process, and should come up if you replace the failing track tiles with regular constructed floor and ramp. It's not a track-specific problem. You can set up routes on nothing but ramped track and set the stops so that there are no yellow !s anywhere on the stop list, but the minecart will roll down the ramp as soon as it's placed.Ah, the top of my ramp looks like this:
Do minecarts have to connect directly with stockpiles or can they just be used for part of a route? I was thinking of making a central track that went down next to my main rampway to shorten hauling routes, but would dwarves use it even if it wasn't connected to any stockpiles?
Ah, that was just it, it was a straight ramp, no adjacent floor.Ramps also count as floors in some situations, including access. You can build a 'bridge' over open air made of ramps and then put a wall tile at the end of it as easily as you'd build a 'bridge' made of floor tiles and with a wall tile on the end of it.
So that wasn't it as far as I could tell. It just wasn't allowing me to build constructed ramps until there was something I could attach to, such as the flat parts upstairs or the carved track/ramps from below in the stone.You can place a constructed ramp on a natural ramp tile if there's somewhere to work from. Attempting to do the same when the only floor on that level is underneath the ramp will result in a 'blocked' message. If you remove the ramp tile you can construct a ramp there, but the building material needs to be on the same level. One method of doing this is to order a bridge built over the downramp, but suspend it as soon as the architect brings the material. Once the miner removes the ramp, you can cancel the bridge construction to release the material for ramp-building. The miner will need the appropriate construction labour to remove the bridge and construct the ramp.
Testing's been done on that. Rollers by themselves (or a roller by itself, as one highest-speed roller is enough to max out the cart's speed) can't make a cart jump the tracks. You need three levels of acceleration, and you may need to keep the track level after acceleration to stop it from jumping the tracks at the next ramp down. I didn't have had any luck with accelerating the cart and then dropping it down a level for the final section -- it would always skip the ramp and crash into the wall beyond it.
Is there any way I could have a minecart loaded and on the rails, but not actually going anywhere until I give the say-so?
Do you need the Max Roller + 3 levels for an airborne ramp as well?Airborne ramp? I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Is there any way I could have a minecart loaded and on the rails, but not actually going anywhere until I give the say-so?
+++W|W
+S^DRD== --> cart goes this way
+++WWW
++|+++
++*+++
+S.+++
++++++Level X-1:+WWW++
+W*W++
+WRD==
+WWW++Instead of closing the door behind it, you drop the cart on the rollers.
Do you need the Max Roller + 3 levels for an airborne ramp as well?Airborne ramp? I'm not sure what you mean by that.
What I'd really like to see is a system that allows me to create a 1x1 power shaft of vertical axes with gear assemblies (though it might just be a shaft of gear assemblies) that I can power at the top. In this case, I would only need it to be a helix, possibly just a single helix, that is compact and has space for rollers connected to the power, sending carts up. It doesn't have to send them down.??? That sounds very much like what I wrote about 20 posts ago. ???
My science is currently being developed to attempt to achieve a flying 'over the wall' delivery system for my melee dwarves during sieges without having to lower the bridges. :DYou don't need any ramps for that, you can just send the cart flying through a fortification.
S=.+.==
With S as the start of the track, you can ride the cart (I don't know if material matters to a push or ride order, but the cart I use is very light candlenut) and still have it jump the two gaps.What I'd really like to see is a system that allows me to create a 1x1 power shaft of vertical axes with gear assemblies (though it might just be a shaft of gear assemblies) that I can power at the top. In this case, I would only need it to be a helix, possibly just a single helix, that is compact and has space for rollers connected to the power, sending carts up. It doesn't have to send them down.??? That sounds very much like what I wrote about 20 posts ago. ???
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.599
I had a minor problem of providing the power with axels without allowing dwarves and animals to path into the helix. The solution I made was to channel a couple of floor tiles in the axel corridor down into a underlying room.
1
1
1
1 1 1 1 1
.
2
2
2
2
Track 1 is designated with a corner, not a T-junction into 2.1
1
1
B 1 1 1 1
B
B
2
2
2
...(I don't know if material matters to a push or ride order, but the cart I use is very light candlenut)...
I think the material of the cart only matters for collisions (both of carts & cart and carts & creatures). And magma-safety, of course.And also for transportation. I have one route that drops the minecart and its spilled contents down a shaft, and with a stockpile at the bottom that takes the cart it simply gets taken back to the route stop once the fall is finished. So long as the cart by itself isn't heavy enough to slow the hauler down, it's exactly as fast as guiding it.*
That's likely a more resource-efficient method providing you have the Z-levels to spare.
Here's another idea I had recently, a dwarven autoshotgun modified to fire creatures (also safe from intrusion by fliers):Spoiler: Diagram (click to show/hide)
I've only diagrammed the barrel here. Be sure to use 3 downward ramps leading up to it so that the creatures are actually flung out.
To use, load a minecart with cage(s) full of creatures, possibly an entire goblin siege. Fire the minecart into this device, and it will strike the wall on Z+0. The cage will fly out of the minecart at Z+1 and hit the wall there. The creatures will fly out of the cage at Z+1 and Z+2, through the fortifications, and out of the device.
In my tests, creatures who land on other creatures when fired from the weapon will take little damage (possibly some bruising) while severely injuring whoever they landed on, so you may wish to use the device to fire bears/tigers/elephants at dense crowds of enemies. I've not had much of a chance to test this weapon, but will construct one shortly in my current fort and perform further testing for possible uses.
Any better idea for avoiding dwarves directly hauling food to the main stockpile?um, take from links only at the target pile?
skilled engraver seems do it nicely; throwing unskilled in the lot instead seems to slow down the entire operation
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.>Q
...Yes. My dining hall is about 10 levels lower than my food production. But I have made sure all of the ramps are carved correctly and am receiving no pathing errors
Is the problem with the stockpiles. Do you have them set to give and takeI have it set up to take drinks and prepared meals from a general food stockpile which receives from everywhere and gives to some farming workshops. My cart is full so I assume this point is working.
Was the guided cart being pushed up or down ramps? Ramps seem to behave weirdly with hauled stuffs in my fortresses, particularly going down it.
And did you set your dumping stop in the right direction? Sounds like it's not set to dump!
Glad you found it before someone got killed! Yeah, I've had a few dwarves get killed going down ramp with heavy stone being hauled somehow, I should try a few fortresses to work out how to reduce that, otherwise you could try to put restricted traffic on the ramp track.Was the guided cart being pushed up or down ramps? Ramps seem to behave weirdly with hauled stuffs in my fortresses, particularly going down it.
And did you set your dumping stop in the right direction? Sounds like it's not set to dump!
It's the ramp :(
Just had one of my marksdwarves get run over. Only light bruising because his pet goose took the majority of the impact (broken leg)
No idea on the dumping stop, can't find a way to see what it's set too, I'll just dismantle it and rebuild it. I do forget to set the dump direction a lot though, so probably it.
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# = WallWeight-sensitive plates with minecarts [...] more practically are applicable in an automatic "launch when full enough" system:To think about it, absolute weight threshold allows at least some fine-tuning simply via choosing the minecart by material density (oak 28 Urists, willow 16, etc).
To catch kobolds and other trapavoiders, i prefer the simple reverse water switch [...]Security against flyers is 1 floor grate, but BUILDINGDESTROYER, of course, would need a water lock or a fortification under floor grate on the adjacent tile (hmm... "Dwarven Sink" ;) ?) - though greater water capacity would increase latency.
water-sensitive pressure plate, set up so that the plate changes state when one or more units of water flow off the plate. This can easily be filled through a pond zone from above, although that may need added security against flyers.
Of course, you could make a more immediate trigger-free minecart trap by putting a minecart on a roller directly behind a door. Units will not take account of the minecart when trying to path through it and will readily open the door and take a minecart to the face.Simple and good. Needs testing for latency and whether the door can be closed again before the cart atually moved.
| Trigger type | Trigger medium | Target's traits | Latency |
| basic | direct | no TRAPAVOID (or implied equivalents) | 99 |
| obstacle removal | minecart, liquid | BUILDINGDESTROYER CANOPENDOORS | 99+? |
| tray weight | minecart | CURIOUSBEAST_EATER CURIOUSBEAST_GUZZLER CURIOUSBEAST_ITEM entity ITEM_THIEF | 99? |
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It's faster and more precise, because it got less turns after the last stop than the classic system, which means less risk that a minecart's speed will be just within the narrow band allowing it to stop somewhere inside the 8-loop. Though if you really worry about this, it's probably better to either put rollers instead of corner tracks after each stop, or use the one-stop version with "lowest" roller in the other arc, depending on how much you're willing to bother with power transfer.
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for the proper effect, the ramp must replace a straight track tile.What do you mean by this? Do you mean that you must carve a NS track in the tile first before constructing the NW ramp?
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How would I launch a minecart diagonally across a region?You could try to derail it by, e.g., using a west-pushing roller on a north-south minecart track. However, I don't think that minecarts "catch" back onto rails after they've been derailed, so if you want the minecart to continue someone needs to haul it to the appropriate hauling stop.
If it's flying "across a region" then I'll worry about building a receiving track after I see where it lands. I know I can send a cart across cardinal directions, and I know I've derailed them diagonally while testing those tracks, so now I'm trying to send air couriers diametrically across the map. I'd avoid using rollers near launch because they would definitely cause a lethal drop in velocity.IIRC rollers only set the velocity component in the direction they're pushing. If you send a minecart at derail speed on a N/S track and power a west-pushing roller on the track, the W/E component would be set but the N/S component would be unchanged, thus causing the minecart to turn and subsequently derail.