Also, a certain amount of damage to the child is not only expected, but encouraged. If the child survives the dog bites, it will be very quick to heal and super-dwarvenly tough.
...
EDIT: A water channel is VERY bad. Dodge related drowning would hurt training time. Hence the well, or booze.
"The Mogli Guard", maybe?
It's like regular childcare, except with more dogs, and less care.
Best HFS origin story ever. Screw the consequences, we have supersoldiers to make.
but I don't know if it's enough to make a single animal rabid.That's why you include a female animal. It will breed in the cage, and the offspring will be rabid. I'm starting to believe that a 2x2 or 3x3 would be much preferred. The issue, still, is insanity. Keeping the child from going mad during the whole process will be quite difficult. Investing in masterwork platinum chairs may be in order. Or perhaps restructure the entire thing to allow for statues. I prefer the hanging cage just because of the terror it invokes, but a raised platform with statue walls would be very easy to admire, and if it had a table and chair, then the child could enjoy a royal dining hall. A bed and they enjoy a royal bedroom. A 3x3 would allow for a bed, chair, table, quantum food pile, central waterfall grate, and a few tiles left over. I'm debating the use of a 2x2 room with a downstairs 1x2, that's room for an upstairs chair, table, food, and stairs, and a downstairs bed and stairs.
newborns get caged before the mothers can grab em
All the theories behind that post are wrong. Cage traps won't catch babies, babies can't survive without their mothers, dwarves without moodable skills default to either stonecrafting, woodcrafting, or bone carving, and children won't do work of any sort.
The science of burning innocent children could be perfected into clockwork.
Dwarf Fortress.
The only game where throwing babies into a pit with crazed dogs will be considered a beneficial concept.
A bed will also suffice to lure them back. Dwarves idle in their bedroom (if it is their actual bedroom) when they have nothing to do.
You're missing the powered armor and the giant invading arachnidey things."The Mogli Guard", maybe?
Nah, Roughnecks, Rico's Roughnecks.
On one hand this is right up there with mermaid farm for the most horrible thing I've ever heard, on the other hand this beats the hell out of just murdering the children for being useless liabilities like I've been doing so far.
A water channel is VERY bad. Dodge related drowning would hurt training time. Hence the well, or booze.
And a year after implementation, we got some results.
Subject A was freed and is living the normal dwarf life, Chamber model Alpha, 2x3 with bed is a complete failure. Sadly i didn't install a magma cleanup device, and needed the dogs, so he was lucky....till i decide to test the iron danger room.
Subject B is still alive, some fights with the dogs, and is gaining some skills, but at a really slow rate. he'll stay in his chamber.
Subject C Died and was eaten by the dogs....or at least that's what the scientist thought when the body couldn't be found....
Of the new Test Subjects (none was given an official name), one couldn't take it anymore and went Beserk after 3 months...the dogs tore him apart. The other two are still alive, but skill gain is slow,maybe because the dogs are hurt. Their happiness is stable thanks to legendary roasts and booze. Ill try to pit a new dog into their chambers to see if that can be solved.
A new set of chambers was built, 7 new 2x1 chambers with Masterpiece beds and engraved walls, 3 are already occupied and are being supplied. If the 2x1 size doesn't work, the other 4 will be reduced to 1x1.
Lets see where this take us, i want to make sure the child's can survive and win skills at a reasonable rate before step two, design the Ritual of fire.
We could toss the child into a danger room for quicker and more efficient effect, but I think this is more about proof of concept than anything.
Grazing animals will, however, die if they cannot graze. This may be remedied when toady adds wheat or other such collectable grass so that it may be dropped down with the child, but that may not happen for a while now.
Chickens don't graze, unless I'm very much mistaken.I don't know either; I don't have much empathy for farm animals.
Chickens don't graze, unless I'm very much mistaken.I don't know either; I don't have much empathy for farm animals.
However, it does make sense that a nesting animal would not have to graze.
Chickens don't graze. I've got a room full of them inside my current fortress. What's more, when left alone to hatch their eggs I have seen lots of 5-15 chicks hatched from one setting. And they do get fractious quickly about being crowded, mine fight amongst themselves and they are in a much larger room.
I suggest their use instead of dogs. One hen, a nest box, with a rooster somewhere else in the fortress should do it within a year or two.
Also there is a dozen of dogs in the main Hall, why aren’t those pastured or pitied? or even appear in the animals report?Why the birds aren’t pitied too? I have two new subjects awaiting implantation of animals but no one does it.
The subjects letting themselves die, and the Dwarves don’t want to even touch the animals, do they feel guilt over the dead of the test subjects? They don’t want to take part in a questionable project?....maybe I should pit them all in the fun slide and flood the fortress with magma…
I think Toady programmed the Dwarves to feel shame.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This is Subject Cerberus 3-4, also called Test4 of Subject C34, the poster girl for the project. She has the highest stats for the project and was the first one to also snap out of the not eating, sleeping or drinking nosense.
Methods common to several studies in this series are described. A key feature is a sleep deprivation apparatus in which an experimental and a yoked control rat are housed on opposite sides of a divided disk suspended over shallow water. When the experimental rat enters a "forbidden" sleep stage, the disk is automatically rotated, forcing the experimental rat to walk to avoid being carried into the water. The control rat receives the same physical stimulation but can sleep ad lib when the disk is stationary.
Ten rats were subjected to total sleep deprivation (TSD) by the disk apparatus. All TSD rats died or were sacrificed when death seemed imminent within 11-32 days. No anatomical cause of death was identified.
Everything I say is sigged. There's no reason to ask if it's ok anymore!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This is Subject Cerberus 3-4, also called Test4 of Subject C34, the poster girl for the project. She has the highest stats for the project and was the first one to also snap out of the not eating, sleeping or drinking nosense.
why you gonna need a nest box?If you use a female chicken it will lay eggs that hatch and go apeshit all over the dwarflings.
The biggest issue seems to be size. A 1x1 room would allow for maximum child desecration (waiting on someone to sig that)
That... that is just beautiful!why you gonna need a nest box?If you use a female chicken it will lay eggs that hatch and go apeshit all over the dwarflings.
I'm sigging this too.Everything I say is sigged. There's no reason to ask if it's ok anymore!Is it ok if I sig this?
Maybe..
..Whenever the update allowing us to invade people comes out..
..We can get the kids through only TEN years, then let them get kidnapped, tortured for a year, then reclaimed, have their skin burned off, replace it with steel-grafted skin(Purely for the aesthetics,) and make them our finest military officers.
Hey guys, I was just reading the efficient medical system thread and we might have a solution to the skin and fat issue.
Turns out if a Forgotten Beast syndrome causes necrosis, then diagnosticians will order for all the rotting organs to be removed (fat and skin can be removed, along with: hearts, pancreii, spleens, kidneys, lungs, etc.).
All we have to do now is find a way to get a FB syndrome that can...
1) infect the dwarf without infecting everyone (although a whole fort of fireproof dwarves probly ain't so bad either)
2) causes necrosis
3) only infects skin and fat
I'm not too familiar with how the syndrome's work so if there are any flaws with this idea go ahead and speak up, we are in the pursuit of science after all.
Sigged!I'm sigging this too.Everything I say is sigged. There's no reason to ask if it's ok anymore!Is it ok if I sig this?
Doren Legonzulban has been fine lately. He slept on a rough cave floor recently. ... He admired a fine Floor Grate lately. He was forced to drink vomit lately.
From Test Chamber #1...QuoteDoren Legonzulban has been fine lately. He slept on a rough cave floor recently. ... He admired a fine Floor Grate lately. He was forced to drink vomit lately.
Wow. That was the first time I saw that. :o From the combat reports I think a water buffalo calf kicked a sheep in the guts, then the sheep barfed all over the floor grate that was the only source of water in the chamber...
So basically I just forced a child to drink sheep vomit.
I'm considering submerging the chamber in 3/7 water so the child can train swimming at the same time.
I have visions of dropping the subject in there with no way to get it out. They can get out when they've trained swimming high enough to swim up the waterfall. (Almost certainly wouldn't work, but it's a great image!)As in, once they've turned into bearded salmons?
I have visions of dropping the subject in there with no way to get it out. They can get out when they've trained swimming high enough to swim up the waterfall. (Almost certainly wouldn't work, but it's a great image!)As in, once they've turned into bearded salmons?
I have visions of dropping the subject in there with no way to get it out. They can get out when they've trained swimming high enough to swim up the waterfall. (Almost certainly wouldn't work, but it's a great image!)As in, once they've turned into bearded salmons?
Heavily scarred and deeply traumatized bearded salmon.
Just to necro this: I'm going to begin some very specialized experiments for this tomorrow. Expect screenshots of my Children of Armok Child Daycare Tower and detailed reports (unless I get bored).
answering to a 5-day old thread is barely necromancy... More like resuscitation.Nah, you just woke it up.
I think the biggest factor we need to iron out is the animalDogs were the starting point, they can kill a dwarf with a little doing so it's not likely they'll make it to adulthood.
two or three dogs, I think, might be the best option
Each of the Statues was of varying quality. I did not specify one. Platinum is the requirement I made for each of the Statues, however.
The bed was Masterwork, and Nethercap.
And yes, I *know* that. I was simply stating that any bird would be too weak to be enough. Cat-Dog is the minimum to maximum. Any higher, and the chance of death is too high.
The Waterfall wasn't an added feature, but is very much necessary.
SSS
But here's the design: B>bN That's the main floor. N is for Nest-Box, S is for Statue, > is a Down-Stairs with a Hatch-Cover(Recommended you use
L SSS a Door, and not a Hatch-Cover, in order to allow for minimal space.) B is Bridge, b is bed, and finally L is Lever.
W
DBW That's the floor above it. It's a Bridge surrounded by walls and doors. Place the supplies/Animals/Children on it, pull the
D Lever. W = Wall, B = Bridge again, D = Door, L = Lever, + = Floor.
L+
How about if we make one big room, dump half of all children in it, and put 1-2 dangerous non-tame animals, that way the kids have more of a chance of survival. Dump in food as needed, have a waterfall in the corner. I say half of all children because some need to go into the civilian sector.
This is like the Dwarven version of the Spartan society.
Perhaps give the child another room that he never uses, a private royal dining hall, he may get good thoughts from owning it even if never using it.
What are you scientists doing to get rid of all the animal corpses?
Surely the stench of rotting turkey is going to effect the subjects morale
Why not make a big communal training pit?
Friends.
Also, to keep the cage above-ground and still allow a waterfall, expose only the center of the cage to light, while allowing the edges to be dark and flooded. Some careful use of water will be needed.
..Not even going to bother pointing out the reason why it's a waste to only ever designate masterwork food.
Anyway, you don't want to put a ton of children in a *large* room with a *small* amount of animals, because the animals will die too quickly, they won't get ANY training from it if the animals DO survive, and food will be a constant need.
You want a smaller room, 2 kids max, with 4-5 animals at most, and 2-3 at minimum. 3-4 is optimal, with 3 leaning towards the 2-1 space rooms, and 4 leaning towards 3-4 space rooms.
Uh, no, the children DO kill the animals.
I have actually had a child go into a rage before.
Trust me. It does happen. This happened in only two years, with ONE kid.
Spread that across 12 with 3-6.
Uh, no, the children DO kill the animals.
I have actually had a child go into a rage before.
Trust me. It does happen. This happened in only two years, with ONE kid.
Spread that across 12 with 3-6.
You're right, I wasn't considering berserk children.
Still-- wouldn't going berserk be less likely with friends, and with more room for happiness-inducing stuff that larger chambers could afford without sacrificing creature density (because all of the children and all of the animals were in one room)?
Do you WANT a tantrum spiral where the worst offenders are ungodly monstrosities who wear steel not to protect themselves, but to hide their scarred and desecrated body from civilians?Yes. It'd be beautiful.
Not that it matters, because it seems no one plays in ASCII anymore...
And the Unicode is ASCII
Wild animals will destroy the child outright. Tame animals take "pot shots" that usually fail to kill. Never use wild animals.
Children will fight back, but not on purpose. Some will rage, but the majority won't, especially if there's mood-elevating things nearby to make them calm and happy.
Do not put all the children in one pit, this is the exact opposite of what we want to happen. What WILL happen, is that you get a clutch of supersoldiers, send them out to fight, and a goblin lasher kills one of them, sending the other dozen into a tantrum spiral. Do you WANT a tantrum spiral where the worst offenders are ungodly monstrosities who wear steel not to protect themselves, but to hide their scarred and desecrated body from civilians?
In theory, yes. I'm not sure how well this works for specifics though. The child (and animals) may wander out naturally in their short-term walking around. A burrow is definitive, the dwarf cannot leave it normally, but a meeting zone is more of a suggestion. Of course animals and children both ignore burrows entirely (except for alert burrows) so meeting zone testing needs to be done.Are you 100% on children ignoring burrows? I remember using burrows to control children the one time I was atom-smashing a lot of them, I don't normally kill any dorfs like this so it stuck in my mind. They were a little sluggish in all gathering in the burrow, but I had 30 children I wanted to get rid of, and about half definitely did trickle in there eventually, but some children did not get the message, so I ended crushing the ones who made it in.
You may want to already drop in some... survival equipment. Weapons, shields, armor. In case the fortress dies before she matures (why wouldn't it?) she will probably survive the entire ordeal, and perhaps eventually reclaim the fort.
Spartan One will need proper ritualistic adornment. Her lack of arm prohibits military service, but if she has produced an artifact, then she should be competent in a skill, yes? She deserves a place of virtue, for her contribution to science at the cost of bodily harm - no things come for free.The child can still fight in the Military although she has lost an arm she still has another. She may not wield a shield but she can raise her sword, or her axe, or her bow, or her crossbow, or she may have my spear. The dwarves willingly began this experiment they must finish it she will join the military.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Turkeys and Peahens were unable to do more than nick and bruise Spartan One during the Blood Snow, but in the aftermath a Ghostly Farmer returned from the dead, attacking Spartan One in a violent rage. She suffered the loss of her right arm at the elbow- somehow, she managed to staunch the blood loss and needs no further diagnosis or treatment. I have ordered coffins to be produced en masse to lay the Ghost to rest, and prevent further attacks.
Work has begun on the next generation of Chambers. This time, the design calls for neither a table nor a throne- reducing the floor space should increase the rate of conditioning. The Chamber shall be opened to the air in order to prevent miasma from decaying turkey, and a well with soap provided- we shall see whether children will bathe on their own volition.
Drunkensteels lives on, and the Project continues.[/spoiler]
Also in case anyone cares, this thread has been linked on the tvtropes community page for DF....I cannot properly express the ferocity of my fist-pump right now.
I see. Maybe the best solution would be to isolate the preg mother.No, we want children, not infants. Plus, there's no way to know if a given dwarf is pregnant anyhow.
I'm not sure this is the kind of thing that someone would make up, But i am very surprised that something like that can actually change.
Actually, I'm fairly certain I've traumatized her. Looking at her bio, she no longer has "a good memory." I've never seen the soul attributes change, so this is an exciting new discovery for me. I can only assume she is doing her best to block the last quarter of her life from her mind.Holy shit. There is no emoticon for what I am feeling. Awe, horror, and pity...now THAT'S DF.
Also, I would like to have some sort of confirmation for the loss of Spartan One's good memory. Ya know, pictures as proof.
Build an empty room. Place a bed in the room, and designate a bedroom over the whole room. Fill 1/2 of the room with amazing statues. Add a wall to make a solid room of statues. Turn the other 1/2 of the room into the training cage. The bedroom designation will still remain, encompassing every statue and making the room value extremely high, allowing them to sleep in a royal bedroom that's 1x1 wide.
Doors set to "internal" and "locked" replacing one wall can work as well. Instead of a wall, just have one of these doors, and the room designation will be able to ignore the door, while the dwarf cannot pass through it. With this, you can have some great platinum chain covering the floor outside the cage that's considered part of the cage's bedroom.
A small suggestion for the confinement rooms, if you can spare the space.
Build cisterns above the cells and sewer corridors running under them. In each cell, place a lever-operated hatch cover in one corner, naturally this hatch should be made out of very valuable material, masterwork, encrusted and etc. Directly under each hatch cover should be an upwards ramp, and directly to the side (or sides) of the ramp should be a wall grate or floor grate which connects to a drainage pipe (directly to the caverns or an aquifer level if you happen to be above them, edge-of-map drainage will drain too slowly to avoid mishaps). To the ramped tile, build sealed access tunnels which you can open at your discretion.
Periodically open the hatch and dump the cistern to wash all rotting corpses and test subjects into the 1x1 ramp, making sure to avoid doing this during tantrums (you wouldn't want the test subject breaking up your grates and escaping). Close the hatch after the test subject and a majority of animals climb back into the cell, then send your hauling dwarfs to cart away the dead animals and re-pit and/or reassign any live ones (don't forget to check if the food stockpiles got washed away and need restocking). With this system, if a surfeit of aggressive animals begins to cause sleep-deprivation it can be whittled down, miasma-producing "accidents" can be disposed of, and as an added bonus the primary subject should also receive valuable swimming lessons from this process.
I'd also suggest that the feeding/pitting access have a shaft at least 10z high, designed so that food and test animals may be pitted in from the level directly above the pits, while prisoners, livestock and etc. may be regularly pitted from the highest level into any cell you feel hasn't seen quite enough horrifying deaths. Expendable friends of the test subjects should also take the high drop, at carefully spaced intervals. The occasional live wild animal (the size of, perhaps, a fox or badger) could also be pitted via the short drop, to allow the test subject a more prolonged training session in biting, kicking and striking skills)
And finally, I have to find some directions to this "baptism by fire" concept so I can try it out. It would strike me as being wiser to burn the supersoldiers first, since I'm guessing it's a shorter and more dangerous process, before investing 12 years and countless turkeys, fort resources and hours of personal oversight into their upbringing in the conditioning cells.
Has any !!SCIENCE!! been undertaken on the removal of skin/fat? I keep seeing mentions of it, but nothing in-depth. Before I dedicate a fort to the study of supersoldier creation, are any of the below ideas confirmed not to work?
- Exposure to boiling vapours (alcohol, blood, sphalerite?), for the non-fatal removal of fat.
- A 1/7 magmashower over a grate, followed with immediate water quenching, for the non-fatal removal of fat.
- Exposure to !!objects!! followed by immediate water quenching, for the non-fatal removal of fat.
- Exposure to magma mist followed by immediate water quenching, for the non-fatal removal of fat.
- Exposure to helmet snake bites followed by isolation and immediate medical treatment apon discovery of necrosis, for the removal of fat/skin only.
- Exposure to platypus stings followed by isolation and immediate medical treatment apon discovery of necrosis, for the removal of fat/skin only.
The wiki mentions platypus venom can cause swelling so extreme it can lead to necrosis. A supersoldier lab might just have to rely on FB chambers and trial & error testing.
the turkeycage of horrors
I'd say platypi aren't valid for this experiment. Worthy of other science, but not this particular one.Spot on, their more accessible than forgotten beasts but they have all the same problems. That's discounting the fact that after that kid climbs out of the turkey cage he's going to kick the ass of any platypus that looks at him wrong. You'd have to throw dozens of them right on him to have any chance of getting a solid inoculation.
Also:the turkeycage of horrors
Numerous platypus stings should strengthen the syndrome, unreliably. Fire is much preferred for these things. You can encourage a child to burn themselves by filling a dwarfbath with 3/7 magma and another with 3/7 water. Put that child's bedroom on the other side of the baths, causing them to walk through shallow magma and shallow water on their way to bed. Ideally, you'd have 2 water baths, for going to and from the bedroom. This can, of course, be used on any dwarf, but a bedroom is needed for children because they don't pull levers.
...
In my experience, nothing whatsoever can cause ANY creature, magma-proof or not, to path through a square containing even 1/7 magma.
...
...
In my experience, nothing whatsoever can cause ANY creature, magma-proof or not, to path through a square containing even 1/7 magma.
...
One of the forms of insanity removes the dwarf's ability to detect threatening terrain, so they walk into pits, magma, etc. The wiki says that it is Stark Raving Mad.
This guy gets it, the problem with the child torture dungeon is that they weren't set on fire first.
Perhaps if it's right on the temperature threshold, it will only melt during summer, and cause controlled
Spoiler: Summary of Spartan One (click to show/hide)
Compare/contrast with the shot I took when she was first introduced to the Chamber- the white personality traits bit didn't change apart from "getting used to tragedy." In fact, I just checked the "one year later" shot and she still had a good memory then- this change is recent.Spoiler: Pics or it didn't happen (click to show/hide)
Moreover, #2 to #3 shows degradation of Creativity, from "poor" to "lousy". Hm, here's another interesting question: do unused attributes go "rusty" like skills - or is there only plain attribute damage?Spartan One is, once again, very weak. The lack of constant attacks has allowed the subject to lapse into decadence.Spoiler: Status, 1st Granite 315 (click to show/hide)
I just had an idea - although I am not sure if it has been mentioned in the thread:
Have a secondary room separated by a door, set as internal and locked. The room would contain statues, artifacts, whatever you felt deeming worthy of increasing the child's happiness.
Well, I had several attempts recently.
Several attempts failed at initial isolation stage, one of them because child didn't trigger the plate set to the lowest size which should have sealed the chamber.
Finally, I managed to capture one subject manually. It was accompanied by two turkeys in 1x1 room. He gained novice in various skills in a matter of months. Then I decided to add swimming to list, chamber was filled up to 5/7, results were promising: child got adequate swimmer in one month. However hight water level prevented him from eating and, ironically, drinking so I had to carve fortification in chamber, rendering further swimming training impossible. Month later child started getting drowsy but refused to collapse onto the ground. Were other creatures on the same tile or constant pestering preventing him from sleep I don't know but some time later child went berserk and promptly strangled one of hens and punched in the head other. Since he was scaring away through fortification dwarfs that were working on next care chamber he was put down by marksdwarf, with butt of crossbow as usual.
Considering the fact that I've managed to lose some to snatchers and the fact this thread has emerged again, I may continue my research.
question: do unused attributes go "rusty" like skills - or is there only plain attribute damage?Oops, sorry, all is there in the manual (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Creature_token) *(MENT_ATT_RATES).
question: do unused attributes go "rusty" like skills - or is there only plain attribute damage?Oops, sorry, all is there in the manual (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Creature_token) *(MENT_ATT_RATES).
how exactly is he creating god? :oBest HFS origin story ever. Screw the consequences, we have supersoldiers to make.
Urist McLeader stopped eating Kitten Tripe : Creating God
I can imagine the goblins showing up with kidnapped human soldiers by their side, looking at the 12 year old horribly deformed kids and thinking "Woah, that's a bit too much, don't you think?"
What, you want (future) soldiers to have friends?
Do you know what happens to a dwarf when their friends die? They trigger tantrum spirals, that's what.
What, you want (future) soldiers to have friends?
Do you know what happens to a dwarf when their friends die? They trigger tantrum spirals, that's what.
Well we wouldn't want out soldiers to be mentally healthy* thanks to having company, now would we?What, you want (future) soldiers to have friends?
Do you know what happens to a dwarf when their friends die? They trigger tantrum spirals, that's what.
Not if your military force has spent their entire lives in a small box constantly full of creatures dying, utterly traumatizing them.
Instead of reading through 26 pages, I'm just going to ask:
Has this worked yet for anyone?
Im going to try this but for the first 6 years or so i will have them in a room with automatic spike traps (training speers posibly) so they will gain doging skills befor meating animal.Probably not going to work, I used a danger room in my 0 metal stoneage fortress and it killed six out of ten dwarves. Without hard armor to cover the torso a training spear eventually bruises a lung and then eventually bruises the other. I imagine it'll just be worse with children.
So in other words... *Taps calculator* around 2-3/10 children will be legendary fighters at adulthood, and around 1-2/10 will have trouble breathing.Im going to try this but for the first 6 years or so i will have them in a room with automatic spike traps (training speers posibly) so they will gain doging skills befor meating animal.Probably not going to work, I used a danger room in my 0 metal stoneage fortress and it killed six out of ten dwarves. Without hard armor to cover the torso a training spear eventually bruises a lung and then eventually bruises the other. I imagine it'll just be worse with children.
So in other words... *Taps calculator* around 2-3/10 children will be legendary fighters at adulthood, and around 1-2/10 will have trouble breathing.
Don't you mean that around 8-9/10 will have trouble breathing? :DSo in other words... *Taps calculator* around 2-3/10 children will be legendary fighters at adulthood, and around 1-2/10 will have trouble breathing.Im going to try this but for the first 6 years or so i will have them in a room with automatic spike traps (training speers posibly) so they will gain doging skills befor meating animal.Probably not going to work, I used a danger room in my 0 metal stoneage fortress and it killed six out of ten dwarves. Without hard armor to cover the torso a training spear eventually bruises a lung and then eventually bruises the other. I imagine it'll just be worse with children.
Don't you mean that around 8-9/10 will have trouble breathing? :DDepending on your point of view, yes.
###
#8#
#X#
#+##
#=c#
#bt+
####8 is a statue.I had decent luck using badgers, at least with immigrant children (i.e. those wearing clothes). Seemed like an obvious choice at the time. You'll need some sort of medical system, though, otherwise your little bearded mayhem-machines-to-be will succumb to infection.
Will children wash themselves? Maybe a pool of water and a few bars of soap will reduce the chance of infection and simultaneously provide a happy thought.
If anyone cares, my daycare room looked like this:Code: [Select]###8 is a statue.
#8#
#X#
#+##
#=c#
#bt+
####
X is a meeting area full of badgers.
+ are doors (the one leading to freedom is locked).
b is a bed.
c is a chair.
t is a table.
= is a food stockpile.
Food and drink (and badgers) were dropped onto the stockpile from above. All furniture was masterwork, and all but the bed were made out of either gold or platinum (I don't remember which now). The little tyke was quite happy until the infection from a broken toe killed him. He killed two or three badgers by punching them in the head. It was pretty awesome. Of course, then he had to stand around smelling their rotting corpses, so there were a few drawbacks.
The wiki says that an adult is just 15K. That's one reason I chose them. Is the wiki in error? I don't have access to the RAWs at the moment, or I'd check myself.
Badgers do hold a solid degree of epic to them, yes...
Still feeding children to badgers is what science is all about so it bears testing.Hmm, bears... Bears.
Hmm, bears... Bears.Sensory nerve severing is good but it would suck to have a spartan after 11 years of commitment get bit in the foot, sever a motor nerve, and trade his shield in for a crutch. I haven't seen alot of data on infections mainly because they aren't easy to test. Is there something special about the clean patient labor that fights off infection or is it just the presence of water? I have a late stage fort and a personality disorder that could be used to test this.
Nerve severing is good, as long as it's the right nerves. Sensory nerves? Does a soldier need to feel pain? Meh. But yes, a bigger concern seems to be the amount of bite the animal achieves, and how easily they can cause infection.
Mist will clean nearby tiles, will it combat infection?
Doesn't proper cleaning also require soap?Cleaning with soap is understood to be better than cleaning without soap and it's understood that cleaning without soap is better than not cleaning but again I haven't seen a ton of data on the issue.
Cleaning without soap is better than cleaning without soap?Started to say something then changed it halfway through and forgot to correct the first part, fix'd.
What?
Dwarf Fortress.
The only game where throwing babies into a pit with crazed dogs will be considered a beneficial concept.
...
Seriously, though. This is an awesome idea.
Flying creatures will sometimes flee from enemies via flight, but are otherwise always grounded. So I do not believe the turkey will leave the pit - not to mention that turkey are a flightless bird....
DF turkeys are completely flightless, but not all real-world turkeys are.
Domestic turkeys are pretty much flightless, but wild turkeys have a short flight range and prefer to stay on the ground unless evading a predator/other behaviors I've forgotten.
You are objectively the worst person in the history of forever.
I love you, have my babies and train them to be implacable killing machines via this method.
Not quite, it's widely known that during the eons of cats paraziting on dwarves they had most of their mental abilities, like learning, atrophied. Except the mind control.
Is it just me that thinks DF has a over-active 'survival of the fittest moral', if you put 10 kittens into a room with a FB 9 will die and the other one will become a legendary fighter and kill it.
Not quite, it's widely known that during the eons of cats paraziting on dwarves they had most of their mental abilities, like learning, atrophied. Except the mind control.
Is it just me that thinks DF has a over-active 'survival of the fittest moral', if you put 10 kittens into a room with a FB 9 will die and the other one will become a legendary fighter and kill it.
The trick to deal with mindcontrol cats, is it kill them while they are babies. Butcher them, drown them, feed them to the crundles, torch them. It doesn't matter but as long as they don't mature and begin feasting on the dwarven sweetmeat that is the brain (soaked in brandy) the fort will be safe. God forbid everyone have multiple cats..the whole world will grind to a standstill from their feline entropy!
OT: Chills just went down my spine as I slowly realized the horrific truth.QuoteCrundles are the new ‼magma‼
Worthy of note: After ~14 months, give or take, I wasn't paying attention. So much strawberry wine to occupy my time... Sorry, what? Oh yes. After some amount of time, the child has become a Novice in dodging, and is being fed entirely on the proceeds from various caravans. This is a very good sign. The child enjoys cheese. And if he doesn't enjoy cheese, he'll eat it anyways. We have a lot of cheese. He has also become a "hardened individual" and moved from "fat" to "corpulent". Unfortunately, his intellect, something he did have in his favor, has wasted away. Presumably, his time spent calmly dodging turkey chick beaks as grown on him, and he has learned not to think very hard. This is currently in debate, but the others seem to consider this favorable.Where does corpulent rank on the sliding scale of fatness? Extra padding's good for combat even though it probably won't come up with an armored fighter.
I believe "corpulent" is more than "fat". He has, after all, just been standing around eating cheese and wine all day. And he's ecastatic.Very wrong, it should be many robes worn over many cloaks made of turkey leather lap him in turkey leather proof and have him terrify the goblins with his insane gobbling- I'm assuming he's going to gobble because he will have never learned words.
Would it be very wrong of me, or very right of me, to dress him in a turkey leather robe when he comes out?
Doesn't matter, he was ecstatic most of the time and was due for a caravan-load of booze anyways.
I've had a moment, here, were my dwarves just make me angry. I let my animal population get a bit out of control, and left the meeting zone active in the child pit. Open the door, "HEY EVERYBODY! Let's got SIT THE FUCK DOWN in this 1x1 area where the overlord is trying to clean out and try deadly deadly nerotoxin again!" I swear if I'd had a magma pump active at the time...
It seems we can make stats go down through degradation, but I don't know of any good way to make them go up.
If we could shape a dwarf's personality, then, well, I'd be terrified of that power to actually change who a dwarf was inside. We'd be beyond mere evil masterminds, we'd be into the realm of Orwell and other Very Dark Areas. I don't think we could be trusted with such dark power. I mean, look at us. You give us a young child and a puppy, and we produce, possibly, one of the biggest sins against nature the game has ever seen. Give us a mermaid and a patch of dry land, and mothers are trying to get their children off of the computer and into church. We really, really don't need the power to change personalities. That's just... that leaves a bad taste in MY mouth...
I hope there will be a feature added so you can designate any creature in the playing field for experimentation, even a dwarf.
Then you can enter a Aim/Wrestle like menu where you can choose "Incision at lower body" for example, to spill out their guts, then "draw fluid from: guts" and they will take a sample.
This way a player with sufficient medical knowlegde could save his favorite dwarf from things that NPC dwarf docters cant. Or horribly mutilate his prisoners to a point where they have no feelings and send them to guard the deepest part of your dungeon. If you could inject different substances into people too, it would rock. Like causing a psychosis to a useless immigrant to change his personality.
It's fairly simple: DFHack a number of dwarves to have the exact same personality attributes, split them into multiple groups and close all of them into small units, supplied from above. One or two control groups who do nothing but socialize, the others socialize and occasionally see an animal/baby fall into the room and explode, traumatizing them. Some may be alone, watching the animals die just for them. Then, later, we check if their attributes have changed and how. Compare all the test applicants to one template dwarf.
I hope there will be a feature added so you can designate any creature in the playing field for experimentation, even a dwarf.
Then you can enter a Aim/Wrestle like menu where you can choose "Incision at lower body" for example, to spill out their guts, then "draw fluid from: guts" and they will take a sample.
This way a player with sufficient medical knowlegde could save his favorite dwarf from things that NPC dwarf docters cant. Or horribly mutilate his prisoners to a point where they have no feelings and send them to guard the deepest part of your dungeon. If you could inject different substances into people too, it would rock. Like causing a psychosis to a useless immigrant to change his personality.
I hope there will be a feature added so you can designate any creature in the playing field for experimentation, even a dwarf.
Then you can enter a Aim/Wrestle like menu where you can choose "Incision at lower body" for example, to spill out their guts, then "draw fluid from: guts" and they will take a sample.
This way a player with sufficient medical knowlegde could save his favorite dwarf from things that NPC dwarf docters cant. Or horribly mutilate his prisoners to a point where they have no feelings and send them to guard the deepest part of your dungeon. If you could inject different substances into people too, it would rock. Like causing a psychosis to a useless immigrant to change his personality.
Or, as an alternative, have an entirely new mode, in which you can modify the world as you see fit. Your fortress is too small? Add more dwarves! Want to make a noble suffer? Remove his esophage!
This makes me despair for the fate of humanity.
With the next update, instead of using turkeys, can't we use vampire were-turkeys?Having your super soldiers turn into turkeys in the middle of a siege would be pretty awful.
I've set up two daycare centers, each capable of holding four tots. The first one is quite spartan; a 1x1 room full of badgers, a door, a standard-or-fine quality bed, a food stockpile, and the door to freedom. Floors and walls are smoothed. The second is more luxurious; a 1x2 room with a mist-shrouded statue and a pile of badgers, connected via door to a 2x2 room with bed, chair, table, and food stockpile, then a second door to freedom. The floors and walls are engraved, and furnishings will be high quality.
1X2 rooms! this is an outrage! I even think 1x1 rooms are a bit too large! I home your ashemed of yourself.
1X2 rooms! this is an outrage! I even think 1x1 rooms are a bit too large! I home your ashemed of yourself.
In my defense, one of the spaces is taken up by the statue, so there's only one space for the child and badgers to share.
I would like to take all the credit, but I must admit that the community at large has contributed greatly to the depravity we indulge in here. If not for the support of so me sociopathic security risks, this thread, and the collective sanity of everyone who has read it, wouldn't be the same.I've been thinking about this particular subject, if the test of Dorfiness is depravity plus awesomeness minus usefulness minus practicality then Dwarven Childcare may be more dorfy. Mermaid farming wins in impracticality, the methods were much more convoluted but I'd say Childcare wins in awesomeness. Depravity is a toss up because on one hand mermaid farming was crueler but Childcare is inflicted upon ones own kind. The deciding factor must then be which is the least useful? Mermaid farming could provide valuable crafts to offer traders which is worthwhile but a developed fort usually has enough garbage to buy an entire caravan, Dwarven Childcare has the potential to create an army of darkness perfectly optimized to have the personality, social station, and skills to wipe out entire sieges. Childcare is obviously more useful on paper but so far it hasn't worked, if that trend continues then Childcare has absolutely no purpose but getting children out of the way until they're old enough to be useful. That means if Mermaid Farming was ever done successfully it is by default more useful than Childcare and therefore less dorfy. If someone has ever successfully farmed mermaids I would posit that Dwarven Childcare is the Dorfiest thing ever.
I do still take most of the credit, just not all. Modesty has never been my strong suit, but then again I never claimed it was. I'm rather hoping this ends up as iconic as mermaid farming.
No this isn't enough, we need more layers of creatures.You left out elephant. Have you forgotten Boatmurdered?
Urist has seen the full moon.
Urist has become a weredwarf-sceletonwhale-demon-dragon-titan-carp-badgerboar-turky.
That oughta get those gobbos.
I'm sure you could easily mod in some creatures that have no limbs and are basically huge squishy meat beasts that the child can wrestle with for 2 years, perhaps i could do some science on this issue to determine the survivability of the test subject in such a scenario.
Flesh balls exist in vanilla.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You are objectively the worst person in the history of forever.Ok If I sig?
I love you, have my babies and train them to be implacable killing machines via this method.
brain luckshots.Actually in my experience the danger of danger rooms for the unarmored is chest shots. A shot from a training spear will only very rarely inflict a deadly headshot but it's very easy to bruise both lungs causing the unfortunate victim to suffocate.
...Somehow the image of dwarves riding into battle on giant war fleshballs as per that comic panel strikes me as absurdly dwarfy.
i now have 2 squads of "spartans" armed with steel wepons all traind at the age of 4 onwards
man i can't wait for HFS :D
i ment spartens took boys at an early age to be trained uesualy at 4-6
hmmm *thinks
DORFS=SPARTENS :O
i ment spartens took boys at an early age to be trained uesualy at 4-6
They left to the Agoge at 7. Interestingly enough, they left their babies in the dark and ignored their cries to make them tougher. I smell correlation here >:D
They also believed that true love could only exist between a grown man and a teenage boy so take from that what you will....
You can't make children wear armor, which makes danger rooms ludicrously deadly for them.Is that supposed to be a bad thing somehow? ???
[EDIT] This has to be one of the most Dwarven concepts ever, right up there with merfolk concentration camps and puppyfalls.
I think I'll give it a shot.
BtW, can you assign children to burrows? 'cause restricting them to one on top of the entrance hatch would seem the easiest way to add newvictimschildren to the "creche".
P.S. The OP should change her PREFSTRING to "sinister imagination". *salute*
You can't make children wear armor, which makes danger rooms ludicrously deadly for them.
You should totally pit a merchant in her room, and order her to kill the merchant when the time is right.Amusing idea, but I think I'll pass. For now... ^^
Then she will become the outcast to Dorf society, attacking them all on sight.
You might be able to mod in something ridiculously small as an upright weapon, that way they can still dodge but when it hits it will "pass right through".
What if we modded a way to make hammers out of Pig Tail Cloth or something?
That's what I'm going to try. I'm setting up one of these now.
Actually what I'm going to try to do in order to let them sleep is set up a 4x1 room with a dog at the far end, a food stockpile next to him, and have the dog chained up. That section will be a 2x1 room that hopefully the dog will feel confined in. Then there will be a door and a 1x1 room with a bed so the child can sleep.
I'm also going to try a communal area where there's two meeting areas and a group of children with a small hallway that has a chained dog in a tiny room between the areas. Ideally the children will move back and forth between those and get attacked by the dog. I have a ton of kids but only half as many dogs so I wanted to try some group child care out.
I'll probably make one room that's just a 2x1 with the dog and try the original idea. However I'm not sure how well this will all go as this game is a succession game and I'm one season in. After I get it set up, I'm not sure how much my fellow rulers will follow this initial plan. I'll report back with any findings though at the end of my year.
Generally hammers made from candy cane/fairy floss are fairly non-lethal, but you can't put them into upright spear traps, therefore you can't danger train anyone with them (short of giving them to goblins and letting them hammer away,which might also include danger of kicks/bites)
Probably because it hasn't generated one bloodthirsty psychopath yet.
There's a lot more mundane animals now, I wonder what's bigger than a turkey but smaller than a dog
Oh! I made a discovery that I forgot to post. Armadillos when threatened tend to roll into a ball and stay in that ball until you get bored and leave them alone. While in this ball they're completely impervious from anything short of iron weapons. If a child was stuck in a confined space with one it might be forced to fight the armadillo which in turn would not move from it's impenetrable shell.
Getting the animals into the area is the easy part, it turns out. And yes, a dwarven child is an animal. Build a bed, and assign it to the child, and when the child goes to sleep you build a wall.
Are armadillos grazers?
Getting the animals into the area is the easy part, it turns out. And yes, a dwarven child is an animal. Build a bed, and assign it to the child, and when the child goes to sleep you build a wall.I think the problem is that armadillos won't roll into a ball until threatened so it would have to be a wild armadillo, the child won't sleep eat or drink anything while it's that close to a wild animal so it's not really set and forget like other animals would be.
Are armadillos grazers?
Can you confirm that they unroll in fortress mode? In the arena everything is suicidally fearless.
checking the raws, it seems they are not,
also they can unroll from time to time, which leads t dead armadillos since the trained dwarf would be skilled in combat (they are like living danger rooms for combat training).
Can you confirm that they unroll in fortress mode? In the arena everything is suicidally fearless.
checking the raws, it seems they are not,
also they can unroll from time to time, which leads t dead armadillos since the trained dwarf would be skilled in combat (they are like living danger rooms for combat training).
are armadillo a renewable resourceWot.
i mean can we breed them
Im beginning to wonder if the goblins arent trying to do the children a favor.
All this plan needs is some forgotten beast syndrome that turns the children into zombie super soldiers.
I think you'd just get more drowning and runaway birds if you invoke water.
Either way, CursedBurger had a child kill a voracious cave crawler. Great Success!♪This was a triumph♫
If absolutely nothing else, you should end up with a scarred 12 year old with a tolerance for tragedy and skills slightly higher than the common migrant.
triple post
However, the one-tile design does seem to work better. I should do XXScienceXX because I have a feeling that the more animals in there, the less the child has chances of being attacked, since I do believe angry tame animals attack a random creature in their tile, and the more animals in there, the less chance the child has to be targeted. But more animals = more attacks, and if my probability calculi are right number of animals don't change much. So we just need to add enough animals to trigger violence.
The best animals should be large and harmless. Like a GDS without pincers and stinger (good luck getting that in fortress mode though), a giant earthworm, a flesh ball...
I think, to avoid anything to graphic and horrifying, write it from the perspective of a scientist or doctor, overseeing the experiment.
But that's just my personal taste, let's see what you can write.
But then you risk friendship - or worse, marriage! That's almost the exact opposite of what we need.That is? We could drag some eugenics in this as well. My current project involved several rooms with paired children, but little buggers messed it up and now all rooms except one have a brother and sister inside. Also it's a complete pain to organize animal pitting to more than a couple of such rooms.
Friendships could be a problem with this scenario. I don't see a way to prevent them from happening, so just add a puppy-fall to entertain the lil' rapscallions while making them not care about anything could make friendships a non-issue. Marriages are highly preventable; splitting the tykes by gender is a simple way to take care of that, and give us a mere two rooms to pit animals in.But then you risk friendship - or worse, marriage! That's almost the exact opposite of what we need.That is? We could drag some eugenics in this as well. My current project involved several rooms with paired children, but little buggers messed it up and now all rooms except one have a brother and sister inside. Also it's a complete pain to organize animal pitting to more than a couple of such rooms.
I'm unfamiliar with the armadillo aspect. What's the appeal exactly?When an armadillo is attacked it curls into a ball rendering only it's shell available for attack. If you try to hit it with anything weaker than an iron weapon the attack will have no effect. I've never observed one coming out of it's ball in fortress mode until it was left alone. When these three things come together dropping a wild armadillo in with a child should result in the child using it as a punching bag indefinitely with no possibility of the child being hurt. Of course as long as the child can see the armadillo it won't eat or drink but there's gotta be some way around that.
Do you want to micromanage that for 12 years?
Well I guess it really depends on what the purpose of Dwarven Childcare is. If it was just about making them badasses then hucking them in a danger room when they reach adulthood would be sufficient, I've always understood that half of the idea was getting the children out from under foot until they became useful.
Nope... but you don't NEED 12 years of this to get a legendary child, because if my calculations are correct it is FAR faster ! Hell, one or two years and the child should already be legendary in Fighter skill, among others.
I will try that technique. Although it needs more thinking beyond it to make it worth it.
Grrr, it seems flesh balls can kill unarmored adult dwarves. Well, that's too bad for children.
Edit: I wonder what will happen if I dump a cage of wild weasels in a child's room ?
Grrr, it seems flesh balls can kill unarmored adult dwarves. Well, that's too bad for children.
Edit: I wonder what will happen if I dump a cage of wild weasels in a child's room ?
....What? How? Did it sit on him and cause suffocation?
well, once they're legendary you can just shove them onto the battlefield and see what happens...Do you want to micromanage that for 12 years?
Nope... but you don't NEED 12 years of this to get a legendary child, because if my calculations are correct it is FAR faster ! Hell, one or two years and the child should already be legendary in Fighter skill, among others.
I will try that technique. Although it needs more thinking beyond it to make it worth it.
I'm starting up a new experiment: Children will be dumped into the vampire breeding grounds en masse, with as many nonthreatening animals as can be mustered. They'll all become immortal vampires, then likely go insane, at which time the berserk vampire children (hopefully approaching 1/3 the applicants) can be trained into tiny unarmed monsters through kitten punching bags (and/or other children).
I'm starting up a new experiment: Children will be dumped into the vampire breeding grounds en masse, with as many nonthreatening animals as can be mustered. They'll all become immortal vampires, then likely go insane, at which time the berserk vampire children (hopefully approaching 1/3 the applicants) can be trained into tiny unarmed monsters through kitten punching bags (and/or other children).What's to keep them from becoming bloodless corpses instead?
I'm starting up a new experiment: Children will be dumped into the vampire breeding grounds en masse, with as many nonthreatening animals as can be mustered. They'll all become immortal vampires, then likely go insane, at which time the berserk vampire children (hopefully approaching 1/3 the applicants) can be trained into tiny unarmed monsters through kitten punching bags (and/or other children).I assume you're going to build a well of unlife and not just literally feeding them to vampires?
I'm starting up a new experiment: Children will be dumped into the vampire breeding grounds en masse, with as many nonthreatening animals as can be mustered. They'll all become immortal vampires, then likely go insane, at which time the berserk vampire children (hopefully approaching 1/3 the applicants) can be trained into tiny unarmed monsters through kitten punching bags (and/or other children).
HFS be damned, were-army could shredanything!EVERYTHING
When a dwarf becomes were-something, do they retain all their equipment? If so, then a monthly "let the beasts out and wipe the map of enemies" could be amazingly powerful. Imagine a dwarf, then imagine that this dwarf is legendary in axes, shields, dodging, everything! And now that dwarf is a large badger wearing steel. HFS be damned, were-army could shred anything!
HFS be damned, were-army could shredanything!EVERYTHING
meaning that they will TEAR trough your dwarves and should only be used in emergency IE. a normal army isbetternot as fun because they wont kill everything
do you WANT a tanturm spiral?
Oh, it's Girlinhat's science, not mine... I just saw a story ripe for the picking, so I wrote it.
I believe that the "doesn't care about anything anymore" trait makes dwarves move more slowly and drink more.
I was referring to "Used to tragedy" or "Becoming accustomed to tragedy" or whatever they are called.These are the same thing. "Used to tragedy" is first, and "doesn't really care about anything anymore" is the final stage. It seems to accrue whenever the dwarf loses happiness in small amounts, but gets major boosts when they witness death or suffer injury.
Magma mist is the toxic/dangerous yellow mist created when debris from a cave-in splashes into magma, but, unlike water, not when a magma falls down a Z-level. It sets on fire all non-fire-resistant creatures that share a tile with it, and in earlier versions would instantly kill most creatures who breathed it in. Luckily, it generally disappears quickly, as not much will usually be produced; cave-ins only cause a small amount of it.
It is called lava mist when a cave-in falls into lava, but is arguably similar.
(*) Stopped young animals from lashing out
I hope that doesn't count dwarves because it would totally defeat half the purpose of 'child care'(*) Stopped young animals from lashing out
Will this be a significant change or can it be countered by just throwing more animals in?
If you have a wild animal slaughterbox, you could use that to drop creatures randomly through a hatch and have them fall within the child's line of sight.
Can babies become hardened to unhappy thoughts? We might have a reason to put the mother with infant somewhere, and cause trauma to both of them, then put the psychologicallydamagedstrengthened baby into the training chamber.
Can babies become hardened to unhappy thoughts?
I'm no specialist of evil biomes nor oceanic ones, but someone should try dropping animated undead mussel shells (or any reanimated vermin, really) on children and see how they grow.I suggested this earlier, the problem is the child would eventually starve or dehydrate.
As I see it undead mussels are far too small to inflict damage on children, yet children train Fighter, Dodger and probably Armor User by getting attacked by these weak undead.
I'm no specialist of evil biomes nor oceanic ones, but someone should try dropping animated undead mussel shells (or any reanimated vermin, really) on children and see how they grow.I suggested this earlier, the problem is the child would eventually starve or dehydrate.
As I see it undead mussels are far too small to inflict damage on children, yet children train Fighter, Dodger and probably Armor User by getting attacked by these weak undead.
Do children still complain about clothes? That could ruin everything.Couldn't you just dump a bunch of clothes down a shoot onto an all purpose stockpile? When the child wants clothes it just changes.
You wouldn't move to larger animals because of higher skill. You'd be doing so because the child is growing larger and can withstand larger bites, and because it slowly raises things like endurance that will also provide higher bite resistance.
I wonder how carts will change things...
Explosives do not exist, at all. Things either burn or turn to vapor at high temperatures. There is no "explosion".Not quite "not at all". Explosive themselves don't exist, no, but there are a few different custom MATERIAL_EMISSION syndrome tokens (in particular, UNDIRECTED_DUST is one of them, if I remember right) that create an effect similar to what you would expect for a large explosion. When the creature in question executes the ability as an attack, an "explosive" cloud of the material of your choice (you could force magma, for instance, but puke works fine too) is created, which both damages and knocks back any nearby creatures - even sending some up into the air. Unfortunately, unless you've created a custom creature and been very careful with your modding, this is usually fatal for the creature at the epicenter of the "explosion" - they generally get hurled upwards into the air, coming down with the most wonderful "splat" you've ever heard.
Vampire children don't become adults.
That's entirely against the point of this whole... what the fuck are we doing here again?It's the idea that never ends...
I wonder how carts will change things...
Nicely said... Well written and quite possibly accurate... :PI wonder how carts will change things...
There was an unfamiliar noise. The child looked up from its meal. Bits of raw dog flesh dribbled from its mouth - the remains of one of the many creatures that had served as companion, tormentor, and ultimately meal for as long as it could remember. Harsh light flooded the room as a hatch opened up in the wall. A solid shape came rushing into the room at incredible speed. The child dodged it effortlessly - a normal dwarf would have doubtlessly been crushed to a pulp, but dodging this was nothing compared to dodging packs of feral dogs. There was a resounding crash as the strange object struck the far wall, tipping over and spilling its contents. The object... the... minecart? The child thought he remembered that word. The hatch closed as quickly as it had opened. He walked over - not very far, the cell was only a few meters wide - and inspected the contents. Tears of joy ran freely down his face as he recognized what lay in the pile.
They had sent him socks!
Lambchop doesn't want to deal with your pussyfooting "Oh I'm tired of this song" BS anymore!Wow, I'm impressed. +1 to you. lol
Still, as usual, we're stuck on the big issue. Size.
That's entirely against the point of this whole... what the fuck are we doing here again?Step 1. Children go in hole
That's entirely against the point of this whole... what the fuck are we doing here again?
Once I've managed to stabilise my current fort, Operation Dr. Gurl Inhaat shall be a go.The first time was a little cute, but alright, please stop attaching my name to your doings.
That's entirely against the point of this whole... what the fuck are we doing here again?Generally that's something you should figure out before you trap small children in rooms with ferocious animals.
I have no idea what you just said, I was too busy staring in awe at your avatar.That's entirely against the point of this whole... what the fuck are we doing here again?Generally that's something you should figure out before you trap small children in rooms with ferocious animals.
Ah, I take it that this is the first time you've laid eyes on the Outlaw Star. Be thankful I didn't have a picture of it sumo-wrestling other grappler ships, as being exposed to such awesome/ridiculousness so immediately could likely cause brain damage.I have no idea what you just said, I was too busy staring in awe at your avatar.That's entirely against the point of this whole... what the fuck are we doing here again?Generally that's something you should figure out before you trap small children in rooms with ferocious animals.
Once I've managed to stabilise my current fort, Operation Dr. Gurl Inhaat shall be a go.The first time was a little cute, but alright, please stop attaching my name to your doings.
ITT: People worshiping girl in hat as a god
Ah, I take it that this is the first time you've laid eyes on the Outlaw Star. Be thankful I didn't have a picture of it sumo-wrestling other grappler ships, as being exposed to such awesome/ridiculousness so immediately could likely cause brain damage.Outlaw Star is the reason I'm into Scifi at all. Well, and Reboot. We need Toonami back...
Outlaw Star is the reason I'm into Scifi at all. Well, and Reboot. We need Toonami back...I got digital channels back two weeks ago and the first time I watched Adult Swim it was during the Aril Fools toonami prank thing. I thought they were doing midnight run again, then I got sad and started shouting.
trying to do this with giant sponges (wounded) results may vary...Everyone will die.
trying to do this with giant sponges (wounded) results may vary...Everyone will die.
Don't you know those things are lethal?
trying to do this with giant sponges (wounded) results may vary...Everyone will die.
Don't you know those things are lethal?
well shit... too late half the childern of the fort deid
Somewhat off topic since this is the childcare thread, maybe redo your test with an actual fort and see how many children your vampire can kill?
You may need to trigger a loyalty cascade or something to force this to happen.
http://www.toonamiaftermath.com/#Outlaw Star is the reason I'm into Scifi at all. Well, and Reboot. We need Toonami back...I got digital channels back two weeks ago and the first time I watched Adult Swim it was during the Aril Fools toonami prank thing. I thought they were doing midnight run again, then I got sad and started shouting.
Don't forget the artifact ring called "Nenya, the Ring of Adamant".ITT: People worshiping girl in hat as a god
In place of the Blood God you will set up a Queen. And she shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love her and despair!
Ah, I take it that this is the first time you've laid eyes on the Outlaw Star. Be thankful I didn't have a picture of it sumo-wrestling other grappler ships, as being exposed to such awesome/ridiculousness so immediately could likely cause brain damage.Outlaw Star is the reason I'm into Scifi at all. Well, and Reboot. We need Toonami back...
Hello, long-time lurker who's just joined and watched this thread for AGES. Thus, in the best necromancy tradition I shall revivify it, possibly along with my own severed limbs.
]But did I just do this for my own amusement? NO! Instead, I ask a question; a while back, I heard that husks could gain skills. Is this still the case? If so, our problems may have just been solved, what with them being almost totally unkillable, immune to depression and incredibly dangerous. The only minor difficulty would be the utter uncontrollability (is that a word? It is now...) of our new soldiers.I dont know if that would work, but you could always have them in cages, and release them during sieges, then trap them and wait until next siege. Unleash the Husks of war!
Of course, if husks can't gain skills or grow, I did this for nothing, but surely someone else must have a new cunning plan?
I dont know if that would work, but You could always have them in cages, and release them during sieges, then trap them and wait until next siege. Unleash the Husks of war!Yeah but then you'd have husks to deal with. Goblins feel pain, goblins feel fear, Goblins bleed. Husks are worse than demons.
Just trying to get ideas out, and yes, Husks are truly terrifying.I dont know if that would work, but You could always have them in cages, and release them during sieges, then trap them and wait until next siege. Unleash the Husks of war!Yeah but then you'd have husks to deal with. Goblins feel pain, goblins feel fear, Goblins bleed. Husks are worse than demons.
That post was pretty fckn awsome :P
The "...feel no pain or sorry, no joy and take no pleasure even in such things as mist."-part really cracked me up. :D stupid dwarves and their mist xD
A Husk is not something to weaponize.You monster :o
That post was pretty fckn awsome :P
The "...feel no pain or sorry, no joy and take no pleasure even in such things as mist."-part really cracked me up. :D stupid dwarves and their mist xD
Now if we only had a way to mistify the legendary dining room along with it's *plump helmet roasts* we could fill the soul of any dwarf with joy just by spraying mist all over them.
That post was pretty fckn awsome :P
The "...feel no pain or sorry, no joy and take no pleasure even in such things as mist."-part really cracked me up. :D stupid dwarves and their mist xD
Now if we only had a way to mistify the legendary dining room along with it's *plump helmet roasts* we could fill the soul of any dwarf with joy just by spraying mist all over them.
That's fairly easy, just put a mist generator (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Mist) in.
It's actually much easier to turn the dwarves into liquid and dispense them around the dining room. The result is the same.That post was pretty fckn awsome :P
The "...feel no pain or sorry, no joy and take no pleasure even in such things as mist."-part really cracked me up. :D stupid dwarves and their mist xD
Now if we only had a way to mistify the legendary dining room along with it's *plump helmet roasts* we could fill the soul of any dwarf with joy just by spraying mist all over them.
That's fairly easy, just put a mist generator (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Mist) in.
Actually, I was referring to turning the dining room into mist and dispense that to the dwarves.
Thralls are living creatures, minus everything that makes them a creature. They are alive, they are not undead, they are truly living creatures, except all the things that distinguish a creature from a corpse, they lack. They feel no pain, they do not breathe, nor bleed, nor tire, nor thirst, nor hunger, feel no pain or sorry, no joy and take no pleasure even in such things as mist. They suffer no order and no chaos. They are, truly, neither alive nor dear, nor really undead. A Husk is, at its core, a void. A sin against god in the purest form. Not simply a blight like a dwarven fort will be named "a sin against nature" but in every sense of the word the Husk is a sin, something which defies nature and embodies everything that should never be.
A Husk will never breath, eat, rest, or suffer fear. They make an ultimate killing force which simply cannot be stopped.
A Husk ignored all orders, they will not don armor nor remove it, and cannot be controlled except by extremely physical means of walls and locked doors.
A Husk is NOT undead. It is not a zombie. It still counts as a living creature, and as such will eventually age and die - perhaps the only true way to defeat a Husk is simply to wall them off behind the bowels of the mountain and try your best to forget that they sit there staring at the wall and craving your death. Never stopping, never tiring, never becoming distracted, the Husk has one, single, universally persistent thought - to kill that which lives and remove life from the world. Even as they sit sealed behind the walls, they only linger there. Only a layer of piled rubble and their forgotten ability to remove constructions keeps you safe as they spend decades, centuries, screaming thoughts through their (possibly torn) brains of all the ways in which they would end your life.
A Husk is not something to weaponize. Not yet. Nothing short of bringing the mountain down atop their heads will stop a Husk. They need no lungs, no limbs, they don't even need a brain. Reduced to a bleeding, fractured torso they will crawl forward, possessed of otherworldly hatred and fueled by the purest of rage, these beings of raw terror will gladly and effortlessly bring the largest of dwarven mountainhomes to a smear of dust in the time that it takes them to crawl from one end of the entrance to the lower part of the forges.
Perhaps one day we'll be able to utilize them. They are something of raw power, and we are not ready for that quite yet. Dwarves who harness the power of magma and upheave heaven and earth itself falter at the strength and single-minded purpose of the Husk. We are not ready. Dare I say it but... we are not depraved enough, not ingenious enough, not brave enough to rally the Husk.
This being of unadulterated terror remains the only thing that the craziest of dwarves will avoid.
I have faith in you. I know you're depraved and ingenious enough to weaponize husks.
Thralls are living creatures, minus everything that makes them a creature. They are alive, they are not undead, they are truly living creatures, except all the things that distinguish a creature from a corpse, they lack. They feel no pain, they do not breathe, nor bleed, nor tire, nor thirst, nor hunger, feel no pain or sorry, no joy and take no pleasure even in such things as mist. They suffer no order and no chaos. They are, truly, neither alive nor dear, nor really undead. A Husk is, at its core, a void. A sin against god in the purest form. Not simply a blight like a dwarven fort will be named "a sin against nature" but in every sense of the word the Husk is a sin, something which defies nature and embodies everything that should never be.
A Husk will never breath, eat, rest, or suffer fear. They make an ultimate killing force which simply cannot be stopped.
A Husk ignored all orders, they will not don armor nor remove it, and cannot be controlled except by extremely physical means of walls and locked doors.
A Husk is NOT undead. It is not a zombie. It still counts as a living creature, and as such will eventually age and die - perhaps the only true way to defeat a Husk is simply to wall them off behind the bowels of the mountain and try your best to forget that they sit there staring at the wall and craving your death. Never stopping, never tiring, never becoming distracted, the Husk has one, single, universally persistent thought - to kill that which lives and remove life from the world. Even as they sit sealed behind the walls, they only linger there. Only a layer of piled rubble and their forgotten ability to remove constructions keeps you safe as they spend decades, centuries, screaming thoughts through their (possibly torn) brains of all the ways in which they would end your life.
A Husk is not something to weaponize. Not yet. Nothing short of bringing the mountain down atop their heads will stop a Husk. They need no lungs, no limbs, they don't even need a brain. Reduced to a bleeding, fractured torso they will crawl forward, possessed of otherworldly hatred and fueled by the purest of rage, these beings of raw terror will gladly and effortlessly bring the largest of dwarven mountainhomes to a smear of dust in the time that it takes them to crawl from one end of the entrance to the lower part of the forges.
Perhaps one day we'll be able to utilize them. They are something of raw power, and we are not ready for that quite yet. Dwarves who harness the power of magma and upheave heaven and earth itself falter at the strength and single-minded purpose of the Husk. We are not ready. Dare I say it but... we are not depraved enough, not ingenious enough, not brave enough to rally the Husk.
This being of unadulterated terror remains the only thing that the craziest of dwarves will avoid.
Wait, minecarts are now being tested for Childcare? Must read this.
Nevermind. Come on guys, are we truly utilizing our resources if we can't find a way to use minecarts to train supersoldier children, if we admit defeat in attempting to weaponize husks?
What's the difference between a husk and a thrall?
LIVE AMMO SHOTGUN:
Method has been verified with fort mode testing.
1. Make a minecart shotgun (where the cart rams a wall at high speed and the contents are ejected over the wall), but add a second stage (the cart's contents also hit a wall and eject their contents over it).
2. Load a cage containing a creature (animal, goblin, dwarf prisoner, etc.) into the minecart. A single cage holding many animals is best.
3. Fire.
4. Watch as the carts shotgun the cages, and the cages then shotgun the creatures (yes, in a conical pattern) in a parabolic path. The creatures suffer no injury until they land, unlike minecart riders, probably because of cage stasis.
Potential uses:
-Shoot goblin POWs at goblin sieges.
-Shoot zombies (necromancer, not evil region) at goblin sieges.
-Launch impressive swarms of war animals.
-Safely (well, for your dwarves) pit creatures in cages without having to open the cages or link them to levers.
-misc stunts and humor.
Are thralls magma proof?They will catch fire and become a !!THRALL!!, but they will not die from that.
If not then they can be weaponised.
You may be thinking "but if we can roast the thralls then we can roast the invaders so what's the point?"
To that the answer is simple:
Because we can.
This thread has gone from a (horrific) discussion about how to train children into emotionless warriors, to weaponized flaming zombies.
I approve and expect nothing less from this forum :D
This thread has gone from a (horrific) discussion about how to train children into emotionless warriors, to weaponized flaming zombies.
I approve and expect nothing less from this forum :D
The best part is that the two topics are directly related, RE: Zombifying The Children.
This thread has gone from a (horrific) discussion about how to train children into emotionless warriors, to weaponized flaming zombies.
I approve and expect nothing less from this forum :D
The best part is that the two topics are directly related, RE: Zombifying The Children.
But then you cant control them! They would destroy your fort.
That's what cages and minecart shotguns are for! We don't need to control them. We just need to aim them.
its nice to see some creative ways to deal with kids, i usually restrict them fairly low and if i forget end up sealing them in a room till they kill each other off wile the parents are sitting happily in there legendary dining hall eating there fine meals and not careing abit :PThis makes me wonder what it would take to set up a Dwarven Battle Royal or Hunger Games.
...its nice to see some creative ways to deal with kids, i usually restrict them fairly low and if i forget end up sealing them in a room till they kill each other off wile the parents are sitting happily in there legendary dining hall eating there fine meals and not careing abit :PThis makes me wonder what it would take to set up a Dwarven Battle Royal or Hunger Games.
its nice to see some creative ways to deal with kids, i usually restrict them fairly low and if i forget end up sealing them in a room till they kill each other off wile the parents are sitting happily in there legendary dining hall eating there fine meals and not careing abit :PThis makes me wonder what it would take to set up a Dwarven Battle Royal or Hunger Games.
This makes me wonder what it would take to set up a Dwarven Battle Royal or Hunger Games.
"why don't you make a real child-care which makes children safe"
in dwarven language is no word "childcare"
There are no ini files and there is no way to mod embarking with wild animals, so no.
There are no ini files and there is no way to mod embarking with wild animals, so no.
You know I obviously meant the raws ::)
How did MarcAFK mod in fleshballs as embark-purchasable?
I might be able to manage....something along the lines of what I want if I can at least have some control over creatures available at embark.
The biggest issue seems to be size. A 1x1 room would allow for maximum child desecration
Meeting zone over a repeating retracting bridge over 6.25/7 water. The 6/7 tiles prevent drowning of unskilled dwarves and all dwarves under the bridge, and the 7/7 tiles allow dwarves to climb out of the pool eventually. Build some sort of draining mechanism for the pool -- dwarves can occasionally be injured by being thrown off a bridge one level into water, and if somebody gets an injury (or death) that traps them in there somebody else is going to have to pull them out.
Just lock all the children of the fort in a nice swimming pool, with beds and a quantum food stockpile. when they reach twelve they willdo they go to sleep in a tile with water? Because to me that seems like something liable to kill them all.
be legendary in all social skills and swiming.
I have a swim school - a 10x7 room with a 10x5 chamber above it, separated by a retractable drawbridge. This is generally set up in the two layers above the aquifer. The top chamber is completely filled with water, usually via a two-pump stack drawing water from the aquifer, while the room below is filled with unsuspecting dwarves. Once everything is ready, I lock the doors and open the drawbridge. The water falls and spreads out to a nice even 5/7 depth, and swimming commences.
This system trains a lot of dwarves at once, but I see no way to automate it. You also have to repeat it many times. My no-skill dwarves are only novice swimmers before I have to drain the pool and let them out to eat, drink, and sleep. The wiki has some hands-off swim training systems, but I don't see how they could be combined with girlinhat's original childcare concept.
I think dropping a child in a 1x1 with food, bed, sleep and 1 undead llama wool should work and be harmless.
I think dropping a child in a 1x1 with food, bed, sleep and 1 undead llama wool should work and be harmless.
Does being attacked by animated wool count as being attacked by the dead? If so, they'd probably go nuts in short order from the bad thoughts on that one, if they managed to avoid the RNG being silly and allowing the wool to push their skulls through their brains.
I think dropping a child in a 1x1 with food, bed, sleep and 1 undead llama wool should work and be harmless.Oh no, it won't.
then... separating system ?I think dropping a child in a 1x1 with food, bed, sleep and 1 undead llama wool should work and be harmless.Oh no, it won't.
While llama wool won't have deadly hooves it will prevent the subject from sleeping and child will go mad. Even turkey can do that.
I think dropping a child in a 1x1 with food, bed, sleep and 1 undead llama wool should work and be harmless.Oh no, it won't.
While llama wool won't have deadly hooves it will prevent the subject from sleeping and child will go mad. Even turkey can do that.
Awhile ago, I locked a kid in with every useless animal in my fort. He lived and was doing pretty well until I dropped ale on his head...
Awhile ago, I locked a kid in with every useless animal in my fort. He lived and was doing pretty well until I dropped ale on his head...
Thralls are living creatures, minus everything that makes them a creature. They are alive, they are not undead, they are truly living creatures, except all the things that distinguish a creature from a corpse, they lack. They feel no pain, they do not breathe, nor bleed, nor tire, nor thirst, nor hunger, feel no pain or sorry, no joy and take no pleasure even in such things as mist. They suffer no order and no chaos. They are, truly, neither alive nor dear, nor really undead. A Husk is, at its core, a void. A sin against god in the purest form. Not simply a blight like a dwarven fort will be named "a sin against nature" but in every sense of the word the Husk is a sin, something which defies nature and embodies everything that should never be.
A Husk will never breath, eat, rest, or suffer fear. They make an ultimate killing force which simply cannot be stopped.
A Husk ignored all orders, they will not don armor nor remove it, and cannot be controlled except by extremely physical means of walls and locked doors.
A Husk is NOT undead. It is not a zombie. It still counts as a living creature, and as such will eventually age and die - perhaps the only true way to defeat a Husk is simply to wall them off behind the bowels of the mountain and try your best to forget that they sit there staring at the wall and craving your death. Never stopping, never tiring, never becoming distracted, the Husk has one, single, universally persistent thought - to kill that which lives and remove life from the world. Even as they sit sealed behind the walls, they only linger there. Only a layer of piled rubble and their forgotten ability to remove constructions keeps you safe as they spend decades, centuries, screaming thoughts through their (possibly torn) brains of all the ways in which they would end your life.
A Husk is not something to weaponize. Not yet. Nothing short of bringing the mountain down atop their heads will stop a Husk. They need no lungs, no limbs, they don't even need a brain. Reduced to a bleeding, fractured torso they will crawl forward, possessed of otherworldly hatred and fueled by the purest of rage, these beings of raw terror will gladly and effortlessly bring the largest of dwarven mountainhomes to a smear of dust in the time that it takes them to crawl from one end of the entrance to the lower part of the forges.
Perhaps one day we'll be able to utilize them. They are something of raw power, and we are not ready for that quite yet. Dwarves who harness the power of magma and upheave heaven and earth itself falter at the strength and single-minded purpose of the Husk. We are not ready. Dare I say it but... we are not depraved enough, not ingenious enough, not brave enough to rally the Husk.
This being of unadulterated terror remains the only thing that the craziest of dwarves will avoid.
Concerning weaponization of husks...
Will a husk on a leg chain obey the chain's distance restriction?
Eg, if you assign your jail chains under a wimpy canopy top outside in the huskifying dust, and naughty dwarves that fail a mandate get assigned to them, then subsequently exposed to seasonal husk dust... will they be chained up husks, ready to maul whatever tries to fo through that area?
"[The child in question] has been stung by a honey bee!" Does anyone know if bee stings builds character? Or will I have to make a necessary sacrifice for science?
I'm currently building a little area just for that. Isolated from main fort, plenty of water, food and booze. Some twenty active beehives, all along the walls. Incidentally, the Beekeeper just had a baby. I'm weak to irony like that.Did you name him Urist McNicolascage?
Update: 30 bee stings on the same dwarf, no visible attribute changes.
I got to page 20 and had to reply. After this I'll go back to reading but here's a beautiful idea.
Put a child in Daycare Academy. That is, it's the same thing as the current idea for military daycare, but without the combat-oriented training.
Instead, the child is subjected to the most horrific things you can come up with. Dropping things from one too many z-levels into theircageroom, making 1 wall a window into your execution room, etc.
Expose the kid to the worst things you can imagine...and as soon as s/he's 12, make them an Engraver/Stonecrafter and have that dwarf make all of your daycare chamber engravings, decorations, etc. You could also make them a metalcrafter if you want to make the statues and etc. out of a high-quality metal instead of stonecrafting.
In this way you can be assured that the interior decorator for your daycare center will be of the right kind of stock for the Spartan program.
Bonus points: Establish a burrow for the whole area, including only adult dwarves who have themselves been through some manner of Daycare Training. This would include a doctor with all medical labors enabled, a miner, engraver, and foocrafter for the creation of new rooms, etc. The Daycare Staff is sealed off from the rest of the fortress via airlock which is how you get mothers (airlock is its own burrow) with Hopefuls into the area and also how you get completed trainees back out of it.
Food and booze are dumped into the Daycare Center and then the adults in charge of the Center itself will disperse necessary supplies into thetest chambersluxury pods of the children. In this way you can ensure that the ONLY friends your Spartans will ever make are the daycare center adults, and if ever they themselves throw a tantrum because the Spartans die, well, it's okay because none of them are militant and some of them will never develop ANY friendships with ANY of their coworkers/dependents (the miner, for instance, or the engraver will not 'know' any of the others so will not get a bad thought from taking down the doctor if s/he tantrums...which s/he shouldn't BECAUSE s/he's been through Spartan training him/herself!).
Yes? =D
Not sure if its been mentioned before in the last few pages, but I know a Coinstar system would train skills, without the risk of death (unless the kid passes out on the bridge, and is flung into a wall, or drops a piece of clothing in the Coinstar).
It should train armor user, strength, agility, endurance, and such skills pretty efficiently.
-Training via hostile animal ends with either the children or the animal dead (even with low risk animals like fleshballs).
Read my post (like, 3 post above yours), to see my newest idea, which, due to my lack of experience, could not be taken too practice. (if someeone wants to try it, feel free to do give it a try, and post the results)
Well, about undead, my idea was to use some kind of limb smashed enough to only allow them to push. I managed to get a baby hand with its bones (and some fingers) crushed and its tendons severed. Its wheight is less than 1 unit, so I think it would work (not enough mass to crush a skull, or at least I think so), but I'm still setting up the room for my test subject. Any thoughts?Do you have some way of sealing the hand away from the subject? Otherwise the child will be too spooked to eat, sleep or drink.
Well, about undead, my idea was to use some kind of limb smashed enough to only allow them to push. I managed to get a baby hand with its bones (and some fingers) crushed and its tendons severed. Its wheight is less than 1 unit, so I think it would work (not enough mass to crush a skull, or at least I think so), but I'm still setting up the room for my test subject. Any thoughts?Do you have some way of sealing the hand away from the subject? Otherwise the child will be too spooked to eat, sleep or drink.
How about... combat? Okay, it sounds circular, but, with their augmented stats and ability to move quickly in full steel, they're in a much better position than the average random cheesemaker Recruit. Giving them a couple of levels of Shield User before letting them fight something will make them so hard to take down that it won't really matter that they currently barely know how to hold a weapon.It should train armor user, strength, agility, endurance, and such skills pretty efficiently.You mean dropping coins onto the children? It can work with those skills, but we would still need something to train them in combat anyway.
Can you put a lid on the chamber? A retractable bridge or something and a hole to the sunny overworld. That way the hand won't produce miasma.You could actually just dig a hole and then construct over it. The tiles will be "Inside" but no longer "Underground" preventing them from creating miasma.
Has anyone here tried to enforce a legal drinking age of 12 in a fortress? I see a huge efficiency gain if the children don't become too sad about it.
It would be a great torture anyway, but useless as booze is usually something that can be overprduced.
It would be a great torture anyway, but useless as booze is usually something that can be overprduced.
Some fortresses overproduce booze, other fortresses overproduce children. :D They can easily make up for 1/3 of the fortress and they consume alcohol like a grown dwarf.
Can you put a lid on the chamber? A retractable bridge or something and a hole to the sunny overworld. That way the hand won't produce miasma.
Change the raws to make them adults at two years of age. Problem solved.You are a shame to the civilization. Your starting seven were not sent to found a new settlement. They were banished and you should feel bad.
Can you put a lid on the chamber? A retractable bridge or something and a hole to the sunny overworld. That way the hand won't produce miasma.
might also be a good way to make sure they don't get cave adaptation...
hmmm... you could also make them work in aboveground farms, harvesting plants. just have to let the farmer in to plant, seal it off, then make sure the kids are the only ones available to harvest. not sure how much attribute gain will be caused by farming though. it could give them a civilian skill so that they aren't angry if you have to put them off duty, at the very least.
I don't think doing children into farm labor is worth it - they don't produce much labor, don't do it very often, and don't gain much from it. It becomes more chore to overseer than benefit to weaponization. These things can easily be trained afterwards via pump operation or just throwing them straight into battle.We do not do these things because they are beneficial or improvements over the traditional methods. We do overly complicated things needing alot of micromanagement and work for a small gain because we can. It is dwarven. It is Science! 8)
I don't think doing children into farm labor is worth it - they don't produce much labor, don't do it very often, and don't gain much from it. It becomes more chore to overseer than benefit to weaponization. These things can easily be trained afterwards via pump operation or just throwing them straight into battle.We do not do these things because they are beneficial or improvements over the traditional methods. We do overly complicated things needing alot of micromanagement and work for a small gain because we can. It is dwarven. It is Science! 8)
Okay, guys. I have a few questions for !!science!!:
Is there a way to firstly capture a Necromancer and put him safely somewhere where he can revive stuff?
Is there something that will not be caught by a cage trap when alive, can safely fight a child and is caught when dead? (I saw a yak go melanchony at the same time as its owner, so perhaps beserk cats would work?)
Can we keep the child in a safe square, while killing the training dummies, before catching the subsequent zombies in cages?
Can we keep the child from making friends in a short period of time while we replace the cage traps?
It's not the zombies that are going to be doing the fighting. That's just so that you don't have rotting corpses, and so you have zombies in a cage for later use. My basic plan was this, with the question numbers for why I needed to ask them (cats can be replaced with a suitable animal that is a pet):
Firstly, you find a crazy cat-dwarf who is likely to go beserk if you drive him mad. Breed cats. Give cats. Put cats in cages.
Secondly, you get a necromancer, and put him somewhere where he can raise zombies. (1)
Thirdly, you get the cats, and tie enough up with the child to get reasonable training.
After that, you drive their owner mad, making the beserk cats attack the children. (2)
Once the child has had enough training for a bit, you drop pain on the cats, and the necromancer zombifies them, trapping them in a cage due to being wild zombies. These cats can be reserved for later use. The child, meanwhile is in a safe place and is not hit by pain. (3)
Finally, you move the captured animals, and replace them with more of your beserk cat storage. The child is left to put on some clothes and fill their booze-starved stomachs. (4)
Rinse, wash, repeat.
It's not the zombies that are going to be doing the fighting. That's just so that you don't have rotting corpses, and so you have zombies in a cage for later use. My basic plan was this, with the question numbers for why I needed to ask them (cats can be replaced with a suitable animal that is a pet):
Firstly, you find a crazy cat-dwarf who is likely to go beserk if you drive him mad. Breed cats. Give cats. Put cats in cages.
Secondly, you get a necromancer, and put him somewhere where he can raise zombies. (1)
Thirdly, you get the cats, and tie enough up with the child to get reasonable training.
After that, you drive their owner mad, making the beserk cats attack the children. (2)
Once the child has had enough training for a bit, you drop pain on the cats, and the necromancer zombifies them, trapping them in a cage due to being wild zombies. These cats can be reserved for later use. The child, meanwhile is in a safe place and is not hit by pain. (3)
Finally, you move the captured animals, and replace them with more of your beserk cat storage. The child is left to put on some clothes and fill their booze-starved stomachs. (4)
Rinse, wash, repeat.
Seems as a good plan overall, but it is clear that you haven't put it into practice.
Consider these questions:
-A pet becomes mad after its owner does? (I think that it just happens with merchants)
-How will you kill the cats without harming the child?
-Do you plan to include some kind of medical care to this plan? Claws and teeth cause quite a lot of bleeding
-Why would you use a necromancer? The idea is to make the child fight crazed cats
If this plan proves successful it will have a great chance of failre anyway, as the cats, even if the child is not unconcious, can get a lucky scratch to the head/throat, or they could sever nerves, leaving your children crippled forever
Baby hands are zombies, therefore they kill stuff anyway. Weren't people talking about turkeys to be used? They might've been too strong.
Baby hands are zombies, therefore they kill stuff anyway. Weren't people talking about turkeys to be used? They might've been too strong.
Crazy animals kil the same way, they don't stop until they are dead
You guys have missed the whole point. You put perfectly tame, ordinary, mundane animals into an enclosed space. Animals in cramped spaces will naturally cause battle reports, infrequently, without intentionally trying to kill. You're effectively making a too-small pasture, and putting the child in with it.
Cats turned out to have too sharp of claws, causing bleeding wounds that would become infected and thus kill. Turkeys actually became preferred due to their small size and poor attacks. Hence the infamous name, "Turkeycage of Horrors."
The exact same thing. The head will constantly attack, while the child will refuse to attack, and eventually die.
How about crippling small wild animals using spear traps, and only proceeding with the ones whose disabilities render them even more harmless? And if you made a room with only one tile per z-level, using channels/ramps everywhere... By setting up stonefall traps like that, it'd be easier to kill animals that are too successful against the child, since a dwarf child won't dodge upwards and will thus be less prone to accidental crushing (assuming that the offending animal isn't on the same z-level).
Don't underestimate how dangerous zombies are. In Adventure Mode, a zombie hand is much harder to hit than a living, standing bandit, often ranging between red and purple even for experienced adventurers, and often hits harder and more frequently. A living badger or penguin with spine tissue damage doesn't begin to compare.How about crippling small wild animals using spear traps, and only proceeding with the ones whose disabilities render them even more harmless? And if you made a room with only one tile per z-level, using channels/ramps everywhere... By setting up stonefall traps like that, it'd be easier to kill animals that are too successful against the child, since a dwarf child won't dodge upwards and will thus be less prone to accidental crushing (assuming that the offending animal isn't on the same z-level).
It would be exactly the same that with undead, wild animals don't stop until them or the child is dead, which is bad for the bussiness either way
Don't underestimate how dangerous zombies are. In Adventure Mode, a zombie hand is much harder to hit than a living, standing bandit, often ranging between red and purple even for experienced adventurers, and often hits harder and more frequently. A living badger or penguin with spine tissue damage doesn't begin to compare.How about crippling small wild animals using spear traps, and only proceeding with the ones whose disabilities render them even more harmless? And if you made a room with only one tile per z-level, using channels/ramps everywhere... By setting up stonefall traps like that, it'd be easier to kill animals that are too successful against the child, since a dwarf child won't dodge upwards and will thus be less prone to accidental crushing (assuming that the offending animal isn't on the same z-level).
It would be exactly the same that with undead, wild animals don't stop until them or the child is dead, which is bad for the bussiness either way
I know, I meant that comparing a crippled small animal to a zombie hand is giving the animal much too much credit, as your test showed. Armed human soldiers are frequently defeated by single zombie hands in Adv. Mode, that's how dangerous they are. And I'm not suggesting healthy animals: Emphasis on crippled. Can't dodge, can't charge, slow to move, slow to attack. Not that I think it'll work, DF isn't convenient like that, but it can't be anywhere near as bad as zombie anythings.Don't underestimate how dangerous zombies are. In Adventure Mode, a zombie hand is much harder to hit than a living, standing bandit, often ranging between red and purple even for experienced adventurers, and often hits harder and more frequently. A living badger or penguin with spine tissue damage doesn't begin to compare.How about crippling small wild animals using spear traps, and only proceeding with the ones whose disabilities render them even more harmless? And if you made a room with only one tile per z-level, using channels/ramps everywhere... By setting up stonefall traps like that, it'd be easier to kill animals that are too successful against the child, since a dwarf child won't dodge upwards and will thus be less prone to accidental crushing (assuming that the offending animal isn't on the same z-level).
It would be exactly the same that with undead, wild animals don't stop until them or the child is dead, which is bad for the bussiness either way
Oh! Sorry , you are new here. See, my latest experiment here involved a broken baby hand against a child, and the fight lasted less than 15 seconds, that's why is compared both. They are both deadly, thats what I meant to say.
Well, I'm going to continue working on my idea. I'm not a master of Dorf Fort by any means, though, so if someone could get a design to reliably drop pain on small animals, I'd be grateful.
Meanwhile, my current plan is:
AAAAAAAA
ASSSSSSA
ASWDWSA
ASD S DSA *NECROMANCER CELL*
ASWDWSA
ASSSSSSA
AAAAAAAA
The 'A' being the chain bases, S being space/cage traps, D for door and W for wall (outer walls not included).
If you forbid the doors, then the child has no choice but to get attacked. If you keep it tightly shut, then even in the unlikely event of spontaneous unchained animals, there's still either nothing or one thing attacking him. After that... ROCKS. EVERYWHERE. Then captured zombies.
why not just have a refuse stockpile where you throw the dead animals in some airlocked area surrounded by cage traps, and have that be your reanimation chamber?+1
anyways, i don't think we're likely to find anything more promising than the poultsplosion method of training up dodge. at least, not unless we find some way to make children wear armour.
I think that just put the child in a 1x1 and then trow(pit) a cat there could do all the work with little to no micromanagement, we could also have a door the leads to the rest of the fortress and a door that opens to a 2x2 door wich we could open to stop the fight. If anyone have an idea of some extra stuff...I'll make an small map or diagram or whatever u call that blueprints(thinking again... blackprints) soon.
The only reason I'm trying to make zombies is so that there is no chance of miasma. It'd be a shame if the child went insane.
The only reason I'm trying to make zombies is so that there is no chance of miasma. It'd be a shame if the child went insane.
You can prevent miasma by making the chamber 'aboveground' - e.g. by channelling a 'skylight' and flooring over it. Anyway, that cure is worse than the disease: miasma gives a fairly mild bad thought; 'was attacked' is pretty severe, and 'was attacked by the dead' acutely sanity-endangering.
The only reason I'm trying to make zombies is so that there is no chance of miasma. It'd be a shame if the child went insane.
You can prevent miasma by making the chamber 'aboveground' - e.g. by channelling a 'skylight' and flooring over it. Anyway, that cure is worse than the disease: miasma gives a fairly mild bad thought; 'was attacked' is pretty severe, and 'was attacked by the dead' acutely sanity-endangering.
THIS.
I feel stupid about not having though that myself.
Tomcost, it's actually random but once i put 2 puppies in an 1x1 room and they fough 2 battles in a season, before i get them back to butcher.
and also... themapdiagramblueprintblackprint i said.
Top Layer
+ + +
+ . +
+ + +
Bottom Layer
OOOO
OOO++O
=ó=++O
OOOOOO
Where:
O is an wall
= is a door
+ is a floor
. is an empty square
And ó is an lever, someone said that children likes to pull them, so restrict everyone but the child in the profile and make them pull it
I know that microline is useless but i love blue things...
and thanks sutremaine, so we need that bedroom so the child stays near and we can just trap the child there, maybe we can make an fortfication and a bridge into a way we can scream the child so he(she) run inside the 1x1 room.
Give a helmet to the child and drop the food and booze on it's head. Then give it more armor and throw socks at it. When i reaches legendary armor user give it your best weapon and throw there some war dogs/goblins/tantrumers/berserkers/FBs/Ampersands/Titans. After 12 years, you will get a !!Little Fist o' Fury!!.
If the child goes insane in this process and goes berserk give it some slade-mandating nobles.
Even socks?! So that's why my recruits died...Give a helmet to the child and drop the food and booze on it's head. Then give it more armor and throw socks at it. When i reaches legendary armor user give it your best weapon and throw there some war dogs/goblins/tantrumers/berserkers/FBs/Ampersands/Titans. After 12 years, you will get a !!Little Fist o' Fury!!.
If the child goes insane in this process and goes berserk give it some slade-mandating nobles.
Well, the main purpose of this thread is to find a way to train children without armor, as children can't use armor. Also, the coinstar method to train defensive skills uses coins,as everything else can crush skulls or incapacitate the recruits.
Everything with wheight can break bones by falling, it seems. Coiins are so small that the game treats them as wheightless, so they provide a safe way to train defensive skills.Even socks?! So that's why my recruits died...Give a helmet to the child and drop the food and booze on it's head. Then give it more armor and throw socks at it. When i reaches legendary armor user give it your best weapon and throw there some war dogs/goblins/tantrumers/berserkers/FBs/Ampersands/Titans. After 12 years, you will get a !!Little Fist o' Fury!!.
If the child goes insane in this process and goes berserk give it some slade-mandating nobles.
Well, the main purpose of this thread is to find a way to train children without armor, as children can't use armor. Also, the coinstar method to train defensive skills uses coins,as everything else can crush skulls or incapacitate the recruits.
Even socks?! So that's why my recruits died...Give a helmet to the child and drop the food and booze on it's head. Then give it more armor and throw socks at it. When i reaches legendary armor user give it your best weapon and throw there some war dogs/goblins/tantrumers/berserkers/FBs/Ampersands/Titans. After 12 years, you will get a !!Little Fist o' Fury!!.
If the child goes insane in this process and goes berserk give it some slade-mandating nobles.
Well, the main purpose of this thread is to find a way to train children without armor, as children can't use armor. Also, the coinstar method to train defensive skills uses coins,as everything else can crush skulls or incapacitate the recruits.
Yeah...Even socks?! So that's why my recruits died...Give a helmet to the child and drop the food and booze on it's head. Then give it more armor and throw socks at it. When i reaches legendary armor user give it your best weapon and throw there some war dogs/goblins/tantrumers/berserkers/FBs/Ampersands/Titans. After 12 years, you will get a !!Little Fist o' Fury!!.
If the child goes insane in this process and goes berserk give it some slade-mandating nobles.
Well, the main purpose of this thread is to find a way to train children without armor, as children can't use armor. Also, the coinstar method to train defensive skills uses coins,as everything else can crush skulls or incapacitate the recruits.
i could've swore silken socks were ok. and thongs. but you need to have actual armour on, and there is a small chance it will go bad (whereas with coins, it basically never goes bad. unless your dwarfs decide it's time to get nekkid in the middle of being tossed all over the place, and adds some clothing to the mix...)
unfortunately, children cannot be made to wear armour. and i don't think clothing works for training the skill...
The flying XAdamantine thongX hits Urist McRecruit in the head, jamming the skull through the brain and tearing apart the brain!
...we shoot wales with balistae...
huh. that's odd, did that happen through armour, or just on an unarmoured recruit?
iirc, most injuries to armoured recruits from stuff as light as silken thongs came from injuries to places that are not considered covered by armour no matter how much you wear...
This is even less productive than the magma bath proposed in the first pages of this thread. There is already a way to train them using coins. Also, there is no way to target individual body parts in fortress mode.huh. that's odd, did that happen through armour, or just on an unarmoured recruit?
iirc, most injuries to armoured recruits from stuff as light as silken thongs came from injuries to places that are not considered covered by armour no matter how much you wear...
Nope! Just my another bad joke D:. About not covered things try to cut their fingers and toes (and face?) in such a safe way that they dont bleed out. Bam, fully covered dorf :P
If you can devise a method of severing that won't go through armor then you don't need to target the individual body parts. It's like using a stencil. The covered part stays but eventually all the uncovered parts go.This is even less productive than the magma bath proposed in the first pages of this thread. There is already a way to train them using coins. Also, there is no way to target individual body parts in fortress mode.huh. that's odd, did that happen through armour, or just on an unarmoured recruit?
iirc, most injuries to armoured recruits from stuff as light as silken thongs came from injuries to places that are not considered covered by armour no matter how much you wear...
Nope! Just my another bad joke D:. About not covered things try to cut their fingers and toes (and face?) in such a safe way that they dont bleed out. Bam, fully covered dorf :P
food is also....a bit tricky to store in that kind of system to say the least, since it rots if not on a food stockpile. In my daycare the only tile they are standing on is a quantum stockpile for food to prevent its rot. I also need to drop in food quite frequently because the hatch itself is not a food stockpile, so its quite hard to actually dump a lot of food and booze down the hatch at once.Wouldn't minecarts deal with that?
You know, if occurs to me that Dwarf Fortress players would make utterly excellent serial killers.
Fortunately for the world, we're all too busy playing Dwarf Fortress.
Unfortunate accidents would be great for imposing term limits!You know, if occurs to me that Dwarf Fortress players would make utterly excellent serial killers.
Fortunately for the world, we're all too busy playing Dwarf Fortress.
Nonono, serial bystanders to "unfortunate accidents".
Unfortunate accidents would be great for imposing term limits!That sort of reminds me of Vault 11 (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Vault_11) from Fallout: New Vegas.
I'm looking at setting up this idea in my new fort I'm on evil dome. I was thinking using undead ravens/rabbits etc something small?
Would they be to much for the kids to deal with thinking just maybe one or two at a time using necros and pressure plates to control re-animation so kid will have time to eat and drink in between fighting the undead. Just need to control the mood swings with statues and mist??
I'm looking at setting up this idea in my new fort I'm on evil dome. I was thinking using undead ravens/rabbits etc something small?
Would they be to much for the kids to deal with thinking just maybe one or two at a time using necros and pressure plates to control re-animation so kid will have time to eat and drink in between fighting the undead. Just need to control the mood swings with statues and mist??
I'm back from testing, with rather dissappoiting results. For those who don't know what I was doing, I was the guy with the idea to use necromancers and baby hands to train the future supersoldiers.
These are the results:
This is the test subject:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This the baby hand I used to try to "train" him:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And finally, the fight:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm looking at setting up this idea in my new fort I'm on evil dome. I was thinking using undead ravens/rabbits etc something small?
Would they be to much for the kids to deal with thinking just maybe one or two at a time using necros and pressure plates to control re-animation so kid will have time to eat and drink in between fighting the undead. Just need to control the mood swings with statues and mist??
I'm going to quote myself to show you how this ended:I'm back from testing, with rather dissappoiting results. For those who don't know what I was doing, I was the guy with the idea to use necromancers and baby hands to train the future supersoldiers.
These are the results:
This is the test subject:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This the baby hand I used to try to "train" him:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And finally, the fight:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
IIRC, mussel shells can't reanimate anymore, as mussels don't have a [hand] or [head] tag.
I thought that that problem was solved. As you would have noticed by this time, I don't fish. I'll see if I can make a child fight one, anyway.
I don't know, it'd be sort of underwhelming, I think. Pick up this little thing, it opens a little and a tiny muscle sticks out and pokes you on the hand. Not exactly the shock of the century.I thought that that problem was solved. As you would have noticed by this time, I don't fish. I'll see if I can make a child fight one, anyway.There is nothing more hilarious than watching a moody dwarf pick up a shell, only to realize it's ALIVE.
Dropping them from a few levels up would likely do the trick.Or a wooden spear trap. Pull once, see how damaged it is. Keep pulling until it's properly crippled. Open floodgate, flush it into the right room. But still, this takes a lot of management and time, and that's what you don't want to waste on your children in the first place. Perhaps what you want is necrosis, which affects our beloved young so that ze doctor can remove all that pesky skin of theirs. That way we can cull the weakest and make the survivors more suited for future conditioning, since they'll no longer pass out from pain to be insta-gibbed.
I don't know, it'd be sort of underwhelming, I think. Pick up this little thing, it opens a little and a tiny muscle sticks out and pokes you on the hand. Not exactly the shock of the century.I thought that that problem was solved. As you would have noticed by this time, I don't fish. I'll see if I can make a child fight one, anyway.There is nothing more hilarious than watching a moody dwarf pick up a shell, only to realize it's ALIVE.Dropping them from a few levels up would likely do the trick.Or a wooden spear trap. Pull once, see how damaged it is. Keep pulling until it's properly crippled. Open floodgate, flush it into the right room. But still, this takes a lot of management and time, and that's what you don't want to waste on your children in the first place. Perhaps what you want is necrosis, which affects your beloved young so that ze doctor can remove all that pesky skin of theirs. That way you can cull the weakest and unluckiest and make the survivors more suited for future conditioning, since they'll no longer pass out from pain to be insta-gibbed.
It would require modding, so that they can be reliably bred, but I still think fleshballs would work best here. The most they can do is bump the kids, and it does little damage.But they are heavy. And so they can crush bones. Have I to say that again? A baby hand bruised a child's brain!
It would require modding, so that they can be reliably bred, but I still think fleshballs would work best here. The most they can do is bump the kids, and it does little damage.
Bumping and pushing can do terrifying amount of damage and seem to get lucky way too often against fragile skulls.
Anyway, I have been trying to use the lightest object a necromancer would be able to reanimate in a normal fortress: a severed, tooth-less baby bunny head. I can't still blow its teeth off. Damned thing can fall to the bottom of the map withouth losing its teeth.Try dumping it onto weapon trap loaded with hammers and ensure necromancer always has line of sight to it.
I haven't read through the whole thread yet, but has anyone who succeeded making a super-soldier ever thought to turn them into a vampire? A psychotic, skinless, apathetic, immortal superdwarf that's sealed in his own private room to perfect his skills, only let out to single-handedly decimate a siege. Well, every year or two you'll toss in a dwarf for him to feed on. Even better, you can have him be a sort of executor of any of the children in captivity that go berserk. Make it so that he's the only face they ever see...Nobody has ever succeeded in making a super-soldier with dwarven childcare. Despite the popularity of the thread it's produced very little.
I haven't read through the whole thread yet, but has anyone who succeeded making a super-soldier ever thought to turn them into a vampire? A psychotic, skinless, apathetic, immortal superdwarf that's sealed in his own private room to perfect his skills, only let out to single-handedly decimate a siege. Well, every year or two you'll toss in a dwarf for him to feed on. Even better, you can have him be a sort of executor of any of the children in captivity that go berserk. Make it so that he's the only face they ever see...Nobody has ever succeeded in making a super-soldier with dwarven childcare. Despite the popularity of the thread it's produced very little.
I haven't read through the whole thread yet, but has anyone who succeeded making a super-soldier ever thought to turn them into a vampire? A psychotic, skinless, apathetic, immortal superdwarf that's sealed in his own private room to perfect his skills, only let out to single-handedly decimate a siege. Well, every year or two you'll toss in a dwarf for him to feed on. Even better, you can have him be a sort of executor of any of the children in captivity that go berserk. Make it so that he's the only face they ever see...Nobody has ever succeeded in making a super-soldier with dwarven childcare. Despite the popularity of the thread it's produced very little.
Indeed, it seems that way after fully reading the thread. Still, one can hope. One day, we shall make a dwarf equal to the power of a thrall!
can someone please summarize what the current issues are with this science? Is it simply that even the most mediocre of creatures is too deadly for our dwarf children?Yes, and it requires a lot of micromanagement.
Let's establish a criteria for a successful dwarven childcare program.If you hit them with minecarts "Just right" at age 1 then you can break a leg and have them become level 20 crutch walker before age 9. This raises a few stats.....but has a high casualty rate. This combined wiht swimming gives them a fairly nice stat bonus and meets your list.
1. Must be able to build skills or attributes at a rate that has a noticeable benefit before the child reaches adulthood.
2. Must not typically kill children used. (we can hammer out an acceptable mortality rate later.)
3. Must be hypothetically implementable from age one to age twelve.
Or just update one toLet's establish a criteria for a successful dwarven childcare program.If you hit them with minecarts "Just right" at age 1 then you can break a leg and have them become level 20 crutch walker before age 9. This raises a few stats.....but has a high casualty rate. This combined wiht swimming gives them a fairly nice stat bonus and meets your list.
1. Must be able to build skills or attributes at a rate that has a noticeable benefit before the child reaches adulthood.
2. Must not typically kill children used. (we can hammer out an acceptable mortality rate later.)
3. Must be hypothetically implementable from age one to age twelve.
We need to add 4:
4. Must train military skills
Errm ye, so I've managed to get some legendary children using a danger room:Make all children do this, for USEFULLNESS AND MAGMA!!!
(http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w589/lorsi1/1_zpsbeb0b11c.png)
(http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w589/lorsi1/2_zpsd369a64a.png)
I have 5 kids like this, legendary in particular skill because they follow their military mother around the danger room barracks all day.
Errm ye, so I've managed to get some legendary children using a danger room:
(http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w589/lorsi1/1_zpsbeb0b11c.png)
(http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w589/lorsi1/2_zpsd369a64a.png)
I have 5 kids like this, legendary in particular skill because they follow their military mother around the danger room barracks all day.
How did they not get their heads crushed?
I'm confused. One of the peacocks has vanished completely.
There were five tossed into the pit. One died of suffocation after one of his fellows pecked him in the neck and got his spinal cord. Another has completely vanished: no skeleton, no corpse, nothing.
Did... did she... eat it...?!
I'm confused. One of the peacocks has vanished completely.
There were five tossed into the pit. One died of suffocation after one of his fellows pecked him in the neck and got his spinal cord. Another has completely vanished: no skeleton, no corpse, nothing.
Did... did she... eat it...?!
Is there a hatch over the dumping pit? He might have flown out.
Is there a hatch over the dumping pit? He might have flown out.
They can fly? I thought they were entirely ground bound, since I've never seen one flying before.
I can put hatches over the pits and lock them. Thanks.
What's your child cap at? If it's 0, raise the number and lower it again after a couple of months.Cap is 100:100... I was wanting lots of children!
You've probably already got some pregnant dwarves then. You just need to wait a while.All the evilness of the world in just a couple of sentences.
I'd go with the 12-year booze delivery. Delivering it via minecart opens up the possibility of the dwarf getting hit, and you don't want a random minecart death when the dwarf is a couple of years from growing up.
Assuming a consumption rate of 4 units a season, you'll need about 200 units to take a dwarf from near-babyhood to near-adult. I think, anyway -- I have a niggling feeling that it's a little bit on the low side. Maybe I've played too much Papers, Please today. Whoever linked to that here recently, damn you! DF is enough addiction for me.
Would adding a no-eat no-drink no-sleep "intelligent" creature to the mix help alleviate the soul attribute atrophy?
Something that can talk, but has no corporeal needs, like a plump helmet man?
That would allow the child to converse, but prevent it from developing a friendship, since that only happens with dwarves.
Since we don't want plumpy to be a combattant, we could put 2 pen/pastures in the test chamber, one with the poultry, and another with plumpy on it. We could do the whole "good creature bad creature" thing with the child, and keep it socially adjusted while we reprogram its little mind.
I've devised a system to pump magma through my mist generator, so now I will have near-fireproof dwarves and magma! Two dorfiness points for the price of one in three dwarves dying!
I've devised a system to pump magma through my mist generator, so now I will have near-fireproof dwarves and magma! Two dorfiness points for the price of one in three dwarves dying!
I'd call that an acceptable fatality rate, as long as you can keep the tantrum spiral under control.
Oddom Agsalzas
First Wave, Subject One of One
Sixth Evaluation - 18th Limestone, 28Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Seventh Evaluation - 5th Opal, 28Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Eighth Evaluation - 16th Felsite, 29Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ninth Evaluation - 23rd Moonstone, 29Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Tenth Evaluation - 17th Granite, 30Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Eleventh Evaluation - 17th Opal, 30Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Twelfth Evaluation - 27th Slate, 31Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Relevant:Current Military Skills:
- Went from "poor empathy" to "very bad empathy" between the 10th and 11th Evaluations.
- Lost her positive creativity stat between the 3rd and 4th Evaluations. (Missed data point in earlier post.)
- Became "a hardened individual" between the 7th and 8th Evaluations.
- Stopped caring about anything anymore between the 9th and 10th Evaluations.
- Between the 10th and 11th evaluations, "slow to tire" and "agile" switched positions in the list of physical attributes.
- Dabbling Wrestler - 62/500 [+33]
- Dabbling Striker - 20/500 [No Change]
- Adequate Fighter - 60/700 [+717]
- Dabbling Armor User - 318/500 [+162]
- Novice Dodger - 472/600 [+540]
And a weaponsmith went fey and made this for her to wield when she gets out:Spoiler: Mace (click to show/hide)
Either that, or I'll add her to the Duchess' squad and the Duchess can train her in the art of lashing. I'm not sure yet.
Does anyone know, off hand, if mist will travel Z levels? In order to avoid the 'dodge through statues' issue, you could make the floor and ceiling into grates or bars, and the mist could travel through them. This would also allow more compact designs without fear of children talking to each other, since they wouldn't have line of sight to each other in adjacent cells. As added industry, a lever could be placed in the room with the order to pull it, which the dwarven child will never perform, but will gladly do when they turn 12, and this lever could open the floor grate to reveal the exit stairs.
I don't think the ethics board will like this one.
I'm trying to sort through the pages and figure out what the current method to do this is.
Could someone recap this for me?
We're using small poultry instead of dogs, yeah? Is it just one or should I put like, three in the cell?
How about furnishings? A bed, a table, some storage containers, and a chair might be good for the littlemonsterchild.
Mist would be nice to have but it would take a bit of engineering.
Also, if I filled the room with 3/7 water, would the child become a master swimmer?
Also, Should I drop a few changes in clothing in there along with the beer and food?
I'm currently building a little area just for that. Isolated from main fort, plenty of water, food and booze. Some twenty active beehives, all along the walls. Incidentally, the Beekeeper just had a baby. I'm weak to irony like that.Searched bee, this is what came up.
Update: Alright, more than 100 bee stings on the same dwarf over the course of a year, no visible attribute changes. I think it's safe to say that bees are worthless for training dwarves.
For the purposes of testing out the effects of personalized daycare attendants, can I get a list of sentient creatures that do not require water or food?Is there room to put in a trap door system to replace dead sentient beings? Or is the current goal aiming for completely hands-off system?
I know that plump helmet men satisfy this, but they are quite rare. (Only ever had 2 fortresses with them in it, while serpent men, lizard men, caveswallow men, and ant men seem to be much more abundant.)
I have most of the daycare complex built, and am working on a modified version of the mist generator, and how to power it effectively.
I am not against using DFHack to accomplish certain physical ends, (like spawning the water for the mist generator) since I have created a fortress explicitly for this purpose.
I know dfhack can spawn items, but can it spawn entities too? That would make this considerably easier in regard to obtaining some plump helmet men for the test protocol.
to have soothing and friendly conversations with the child, without risking the dangers of friendships.Well, if that's the goal why not use ordinary talking animals (even those are extremely rare) or wall-in some insignificant dwarf. It's not like the food is anywhere near limited. Or maybe use vampire. With some planning one dwarf could provide a social interactions to several subjects.
the tame animal plan people are using works well, but very slowly, while being relatively low maintenance.Yeah, that's the point - low maintenance and micromanagement, just lure child in and wait. If were talking about training them by pitting against aggressive critters the giant zombie grasshopper and a squad of hammerdwarfs ten tiles away is unquestionable winner.
I found pitting single wild mandrills, coatis, koalas works.Are coatis really safe to pit? I had one of those things walk into my fort and singlehandedly take all seven of my dwarves out. One of your kids was able to survive with one of those monsters?
I found pitting single wild mandrills, coatis, koalas works.Are coatis really safe to pit? I had one of those things walk into my fort and singlehandedly take all seven of my dwarves out. One of your kids was able to survive with one of those monsters?
Is his name Pi or something?
I just want to see if the attribute decay can be mitigated with "fake" social interaction.Perhaps goblins, then?
(Amusingly, if you don't mind the prospect of modding and also of course, if this works, it would be a good use for elven caravan members. Just mod them to not need food or water, drop them on some cage traps, install them in the mist chamber and link them to a lever-- fortification slit them in, open the cage by remote. All set. Elves being immortal would solve many problems.)
I just want to see if the attribute decay can be mitigated with "fake" social interaction.Perhaps goblins, then?
(Amusingly, if you don't mind the prospect of modding and also of course, if this works, it would be a good use for elven caravan members. Just mod them to not need food or water, drop them on some cage traps, install them in the mist chamber and link them to a lever-- fortification slit them in, open the cage by remote. All set. Elves being immortal would solve many problems.)
haha I really should watch that film...
Well, I knew it was risky, i started out with the standard tame bird thing, but took the birds out once I got a bit frustrated with the speed of the skill gain, which is when I checked my animal stockpile and had 5 mandrills. One of the kids died in its fight, but the others somehow won, after that I think I tried some softer wild animals to get a bit more levelling, then started testing the larger animals. I didnt think the coati would be anywhere near as bad as a bobcat or a lynx, but they all survived that.
I think the wild turkeys and koala buffers after the mandrills helped toughen up the kids...
2 have 7 kills so far, one has 8.
they are all expert or higher in fighter, 2 are novice strikers, and 2 are talented and one is adept at wrestling. The other skills are dabbling. They're getting armor user from wearing clothing - which was news to me...
I know dfhack can spawn items, but can it spawn entities too? That would make this considerably easier in regard to obtaining some plump helmet men for the test protocol.
By Armok's beard! This is finally bearing results???
You are all horrible people
You are all horrible people
Aye, truly terrible homo sapiens. But exemplary examples of dwarfdom.Human and dwarven ethics are the same in the following areas:
I know dfhack can spawn items, but can it spawn entities too? That would make this considerably easier in regard to obtaining some plump helmet men for the test protocol.
1. You want units; entities are civilizations and nothing else.
2. yeah. (https://gist.github.com/Putnam3145/7257577) You might want to use warmist's version that I forked from there or the r3 version I have if you're using r3.
Hm, does !!Science!! count as TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION or TORTURE_FOR_FUN?"Dwarven child care" is either equally human or dwarf, or much more human than dwarf.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I know dfhack can spawn items, but can it spawn entities too? That would make this considerably easier in regard to obtaining some plump helmet men for the test protocol.
1. You want units; entities are civilizations and nothing else.
2. yeah. (https://gist.github.com/Putnam3145/7257577) You might want to use warmist's version that I forked from there or the r3 version I have if you're using r3.
I had to hunt down the R3 version from Warmist. Works a treat. I could theoretically spawn children for testing this way too...
It's not torture, it's "enhanced research techniques".Hm, does !!Science!! count as TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION or TORTURE_FOR_FUN?"Dwarven child care" is either equally human or dwarf, or much more human than dwarf.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, I'm not sure the TORTURE applies here at all, people are trying to keep them ecstatic during the tests.
Welp, non-combat training for children is failure. They don't get xp from performing deconstruction. You can probably still train their growing skill fairly high but that won't stop them from becoming legendary woodcrafters.
(http://s12.postimg.org/urbsvkk2l/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
spawnunit.lua 's innards say that the second argument is the caste.
Sadly, it looks like it assigns the current DF year to the birth year field.
Doesnt look like you can make dwarven babies without a little tweaking.
In other news, my dwarves are poppin babies like nobody's business. I just had 5 birth reports in less than 1 dwarven month. I may have to expand the testing center.
To repeat myself "We need to do this to elven children, then kill them once they grow up, if its peaceful (by getting a female and male elf to mate in a cage), then kill them.
What about vampires? You could do the same thing but they'd never die or even need extra stuff besides maybe a small room and clothes.For the purposes of testing out the effects of personalized daycare attendants, can I get a list of sentient creatures that do not require water or food?Is there room to put in a trap door system to replace dead sentient beings? Or is the current goal aiming for completely hands-off system?
I know that plump helmet men satisfy this, but they are quite rare. (Only ever had 2 fortresses with them in it, while serpent men, lizard men, caveswallow men, and ant men seem to be much more abundant.)
I have most of the daycare complex built, and am working on a modified version of the mist generator, and how to power it effectively.
I am not against using DFHack to accomplish certain physical ends, (like spawning the water for the mist generator) since I have created a fortress explicitly for this purpose.
I know dfhack can spawn items, but can it spawn entities too? That would make this considerably easier in regard to obtaining some plump helmet men for the test protocol.
I always think of this:Who cares if they are traumatized? It helps narrow down on how to fix the process and it is probably not gonna make them care anymore, we have achievements in dwarven !!science!!.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120157/quotes?item=qt0201706
I don't know if call the author of this a genious, or a soulless monster...We are in Bay12, so it's both.
Oh, rigth. I forgot that to enter Bay12 Forums you must sell your soul to Toady so he also sells it to some unspecified being in exchange for more letters to add into the game :PI don't know if call the author of this a genious, or a soulless monster...We are in Bay12, so it's both.
The program was ultimately discontinued, as appropriate water flow was difficult to control, often resulting in the drowning death of subjects.What was the problem? Did you have trouble reliably getting 4-5 depth? Fill your 3x3 submersion training facility via a 2x3 measuring room in the z above. 2x3 is 42 units of water, meaning if spread out over a 3x3 area it would be 4 on three tiles and 5 on six (you get the same 4 2/3 depth whenever you increase the area by 1/3). Alternately, you could put lever controlled doors on 3 tiles of the room. Fill the room, disconnect water, open doors, the area of the room increases by 3.
The program was ultimately discontinued, as appropriate water flow was difficult to control, often resulting in the drowning death of subjects.What was the problem? Did you have trouble reliably getting 4-5 depth? Fill your 3x3 submersion training facility via a 2x3 measuring room in the z above. 2x3 is 42 units of water, meaning if spread out over a 3x3 area it would be 4 on three tiles and 5 on six (you get the same 4 2/3 depth whenever you increase the area by 1/3). Alternately, you could put lever controlled doors on 3 tiles of the room. Fill the room, disconnect water, open doors, the area of the room increases by 3.
If you want more fine grained control over water depth than working in units of 7, use mine carts to dump the water. For a one dwarf testing chamber, just make a u bend, with a grate for the dwarf to stand on one side and a chute to wherever the minecart's dumping from on the other. Keep it filled up to below the grate with a diagonal pressure reducer on the water supply and a door to block it. Station the dwarf, close off the water supply, and send some mine carts. Since there are only two tiles being filled, connected by the full u bend, 1 cart = 1 unit of water on the dwarf's square. How to automatically send a specific number of minecarts full of water on command (or better yet, on schedule) is left as an exercise to the reader.
Nope. One manipulates the dead bodies of anonymous people with a power gifted by the gods of death, the other practice hazardous heartless and often lethal experimentations on his own living offsprings.
That's the difference between a mere necromancer and a true dwarven scientist.
Be warned, I did actually have a child drown in these, but it's only happened one time. Those are acceptable losses.
Yeah, it almost seemed like having a child drown was an unusually bad occurrence.Be warned, I did actually have a child drown in these, but it's only happened one time. Those are acceptable losses.
For a moment I thought we went too far. Just for moment tough.
Not at all. Most, if not all DF players are sadistic in one fashion or another.
As for the opposite of necromancers: That would be a vivomancer-- A sorcerer obsessed with learning the secrets of manipulating life and living things. Not given NEARLY enough coverage in literature. For some reason, people send too much time worrying over the dead-- those that preside over the living are far, FAR more frightening.
Not at all. Most, if not all DF players are sadistic in one fashion or another.
As for the opposite of necromancers: That would be a vivomancer-- A sorcerer obsessed with learning the secrets of manipulating life and living things. Not given NEARLY enough coverage in literature. For some reason, people send too much time worrying over the dead-- those that preside over the living are far, FAR more frightening.
Furfa-Furries?
Furfa-Furries?
If I could have Dwarfs born with claws that would be cool. They already have enough hair.
I see that now it's about swimming lessons. What happened to the original dog/turkey/bronze colossus child care designs?
For the sake of completeness, I'd like to mention cheating via the Shaft of Enlightenment, which takes about one second to get an even more untouchable supersoldier, albeit without the attribute boost that the danger room offers and with about a 50% chance of incapacitation unless heavily armored.I see that now it's about swimming lessons. What happened to the original dog/turkey/bronze colossus child care designs?They were a complete success - killed 100% of children in a soul-charringly horrible way. That was the whole purpose of the exercise, after all. If you want super-soldiers, you take adults and stick them into the military for 2-3 years (or cheat via danger-room, which takes about a month for an untouchable supersoldier, with <1% fatality rate).
To resupply food and drinks more easily:If it falls on a food stockpile it will not rot.
IIRC, in 0.34.11 I had a 1-tile dump zone near a channel and everything was dumped into the channel.
Also, wouldn't it rot during 12 years?
-snip-This is actually a really good idea.
We can keep them constantly unhappy, then when faced with a massive siege, we execute the relatives to push them over the edge. We could hold parents hpstsge for this purpose. Then, we unleash the dwarf on our enemies
Hello, Necromantic brother! How is it?-snip-This is actually a really good idea.
We can keep them constantly unhappy, then when faced with a massive siege, we execute the relatives to push them over the edge. We could hold parents hpstsge for this purpose. Then, we unleash the dwarf on our enemies
That idea is the dwarven equivalent of a nuclear reactor -- keep the core on the verge of a chain reaction but never actually let it get there.-snip-This is actually a really good idea.
We can keep them constantly unhappy, then when faced with a massive siege, we execute the relatives to push them over the edge. We could hold parents hpstsge for this purpose. Then, we unleash the dwarf on our enemies
But we can control when theThat idea is the dwarven equivalent of a nuclear reactor -- keep the core on the verge of a chain reaction but never actually let it get there.-snip-This is actually a really good idea.
We can keep them constantly unhappy, then when faced with a massive siege, we execute the relatives to push them over the edge. We could hold parents hpstsge for this purpose. Then, we unleash the dwarf on our enemies
And just like real-life nuclear reactors, something going wrong results in flying limbs and major infrastructure damage.