Feedback from players requested...?
* Common orcs and snaga are less strong than in Old Masterwork, and tremendously strong Uruks are more rare. But Uruks and Ologs are more common. Good, bad, etc?
Suggestions
* Some old weapons still need re-balanced to conform to vanilla/MWDF2016 balance
So how does the faction system work in mdf? What civs and Invaders will attack me if I play orcs?
[REACTION:HARDEN_TALLOW_ORC]
[NAME:Harden leather with tallow]
[BUILDING:ORC_TRIBALGEAR:CUSTOM_T]
[REAGENT:A:1:SKIN_TANNED:NONE:NONE:NONE][ANY_LEATHER_MATERIAL][REACTION_CLASS:LEATHER]
[REAGENT:tallow:1:GLOB:NONE:NONE:NONE][REACTION_CLASS:TALLOW][UNROTTEN]
[PRODUCT:100:1:SKIN_TANNED:NO_SUBTYPE:CREATURE_MAT:ANIMAL_LEATHER:HARDENED_LEATHER]
[SKILL:LEATHERWORK]
[REACTION:LAMELLAR_SHELL_ORC]
[NAME:Laminate leather with shell]
[BUILDING:ORC_TRIBALGEAR:CUSTOM_S]
[REAGENT:A:1:SKIN_TANNED:NO_SUBTYPE:CREATURE_MAT:ANIMAL_LEATHER:HARDENED_LEATHER][ANY_LEATHER_MATERIAL]
[REAGENT:shell:1:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE][ANY_SHELL_MATERIAL][USE_BODY_COMPONENT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:SKIN_TANNED:NO_SUBTYPE:CREATURE_MAT:ANIMAL_LAMELLAR:LEATHER]
[SKILL:LEATHERWORK]
[REACTION:LAMELLAR_WOOD_ORC]
[NAME:Laminate leather with wood]
[BUILDING:ORC_TRIBALGEAR:CUSTOM_W]
[REAGENT:A:1:SKIN_TANNED:NO_SUBTYPE:CREATURE_MAT:ANIMAL_LEATHER:HARDENED_LEATHER][ANY_LEATHER_MATERIAL]
[REAGENT:wood:1:WOOD:NONE:NONE:NONE]
[PRODUCT:100:1:SKIN_TANNED:NO_SUBTYPE:CREATURE_MAT:ANIMAL_LAMELLAR:LEATHER]
[SKILL:LEATHERWORK]
[REACTION:LAMELLAR_HORN_ORC]
[BUILDING:ORC_TRIBALGEAR:CUSTOM_H]
[NAME:Laminate leather with horn]
[REAGENT:A:1:SKIN_TANNED:NO_SUBTYPE:CREATURE_MAT:ANIMAL_LEATHER:HARDENED_LEATHER][ANY_LEATHER_MATERIAL]
[REAGENT:horn:1:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE][ANY_HORN_MATERIAL][USE_BODY_COMPONENT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:SKIN_TANNED:NO_SUBTYPE:CREATURE_MAT:ANIMAL_LAMELLAR:LEATHER]
[SKILL:LEATHERWORK]
[REACTION:LAMELLAR_ARMORSET_ORC]
[NAME:Craft lamellar wargear set]
[BUILDING:ORC_TRIBALGEAR:CUSTOM_A]
[REAGENT:A:5:SKIN_TANNED:NO_SUBTYPE:CREATURE_MAT:ANIMAL_LAMELLAR:LEATHER]
[PRODUCT:100:1:HELM:ITEM_HELM_HELM:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
[PRODUCT:100:1:ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_LEATHER:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
[PRODUCT:100:2:SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_BOOTS:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
[PRODUCT:100:1:PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_GREAVES:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
[PRODUCT:100:2:GLOVES:ITEM_GLOVES_GAUNTLETS:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
[SKILL:LEATHERWORK]
Thanks! :)I tested those, all creatures spawned with it were fine, but I did not do long test forts with them.
BTW, do you know if the Ghetto Overseer is working reliably atm? My released goblin captive seemed to disappear into the ether
Hmm ... sort of. Ologhai having +50% to their favorite weapon classes did not happen by accident of course, but Spears specifically being on the list is a legacy of the weapon list in Old Masterwork and arguably should be removed or changed now (e.g. polehammer is now a pike).Yeah, unfortunately orcs cant embark with pike skill in 43.03 :(
That happens if the civ does not have a weapon of that skill enabled in their entity file.Hmm ... sort of. Ologhai having +50% to their favorite weapon classes did not happen by accident of course, but Spears specifically being on the list is a legacy of the weapon list in Old Masterwork and arguably should be removed or changed now (e.g. polehammer is now a pike).Yeah, unfortunately orcs cant embark with pike skill in 43.03 :(
Combat magic (frost storms, rite of pain, etc.)- 16 (30.2%)
Ritual magic (weather, timeflow, etc.)- 11 (20.8%)
More high end industries locked by looted blueprints or trade (post ideas in thread?)- 11 (20.8%)
GUI option to activate more nonplayable slaver civs (ashlanders, deep legion, etc.)- 8 (15.1%)
Other (post ideas in thread?)- 0 (0%)
Needs nothing, just fixes and tweaks are fine!- 7 (13.2%)
I remember how friggin volitile the old orc combat magic was. You had to hope your stormwalkers never saw an enemy, otherwise they would kind of indiscriminately spray ice everywhere and freeze friend and foe alike to death.
Maybe you could add totem helmets which are made out of megabeast/semi-megabeast skulls which impart special abilities to your orcs. Eg. Roc totem helmet gives agility boost or dodge boost or something.
For some reason in the newest release the shaggy mumaks pulling wagons are intelligent, sticking around as visitors after the traders leave, dumping whatever they were carrying as invisible stacks on the maps edge. They then proceed to wander around my fort and knock down any wooden doors, armour stands/weapon racks/statues I build. Also there are a lot of Uruks (5 in a fort of 21 for example) and far fewer Corsairs/Artisans/Dreamwalkers/Ologs than I expected.Boltguns fixpet script. :/
@todo Check for intelligence, it currently create nemesis for all pets.
Also there are a lot of Uruks (5 in a fort of 21 for example) and far fewer Corsairs/Artisans/Dreamwalkers/Ologs than I expected.
Frankly, I'd like to see an increase in Corsairs most; otherwise it is really hard to find the orcpower for a swashbuckling squad. Other observations are as follows.
1. Snaga seem a bit too strong/tough. When I stick my snaga in a squad with only copper daggers and leave them + a uruk squad with mithril katanas/iron+cobalt armour to train for a year or so, the snaga should not be outclassing the uruk in every damn way, it is just... ridiculous.
2. Uruks are a tad too common, though I prefer them to be rare champion units so I dunno if others prefer more of them.
3. Dreamwalkers are superfluous, though that should change if you're going to be doing the combat magic system.
4. Ologs are incredibly rare. In my past three forts, a combined total of perhaps 200 - 250 orcs, I've seen only one. Plus for some reason they can't hold noble positions? I mean, I can't even make them sergeants of their own squads.
5. Artisans seem a bit redundant - you can usually rely on at least one mood before year two which if you're lucky can net you a legendary bone carver who can pump out masterwork macuahitls/toothed spears to last you until a random guy learns to weaponsmith which means their learn rate boost (IIRC) is unneeded. Is there a stat difference between artisans and normal orcs? On that question, what are the stat differences for corsairs as well?
6. Blacksmoke furnace needs some new stuff - at the moment it's just a bunch of reactions that only ever need to used in extremely niche circumstances.
Finally, is it possible to turn that fixpet script off ingame? I mean, I'm not playing succubi here.
6. Blacksmoke furnace needs some new stuff - at the moment it's just a bunch of reactions that only ever need to used in extremely niche circumstances.If you want the wildfire stuff,
[REACTION:HUMAN_STEEL_BOMB]
[NAME:Forge steel bomb casing]
[BUILDING:GUILD_ENGINEER_W:CUSTOM_SHIFT_J]
[REAGENT:steel:300:BAR:NONE:INORGANIC:STEEL]
[PRODUCT:100:10:WEAPON:ITEM_TRAPCOMP_BOMB:INORGANIC:STEEL]
[FUEL]
[SKILL:FORGE_WEAPON]
[REACTION:MAKE_WILDFIRE_BALLISTA]
[NAME:Make wildfire ballista ammo]
[BUILDING:GUILD_HEALER_E:CUSTOM_NONE]
[REAGENT:A:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:BRIMSTONE]
[REAGENT:B:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:SALTPETER]
[REAGENT:C:2:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:COAL:NO_MATGLOSS]
[REAGENT:lye:150:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:LYE]
[REAGENT:lye container:1:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE]
[CONTAINS:lye]
[PRESERVE_REAGENT]
[DOES_NOT_DETERMINE_PRODUCT_AMOUNT]
[REAGENT:oil:150:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:NONE:NONE]
[UNROTTEN]
[HAS_MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:SOAP_MAT]
[REAGENT:oil container:1:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE]
[CONTAINS:oil]
[PRESERVE_REAGENT]
[DOES_NOT_DETERMINE_PRODUCT_AMOUNT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:SIEGEAMMO:ITEM_SIEGEAMMO_BALLISTA:INORGANIC:WILDFIRE]
[SKILL:ALCHEMY]
[REACTION:MAKE_WILDFIRE_TRAP]
[NAME:Make wildfire bomb filling]
[BUILDING:GUILD_HEALER_E:CUSTOM_NONE]
[REAGENT:A:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:BRIMSTONE]
[REAGENT:B:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:SALTPETER]
[REAGENT:C:2:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:COAL:NO_MATGLOSS]
[REAGENT:lye:150:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:LYE]
[REAGENT:lye container:1:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE]
[CONTAINS:lye]
[PRESERVE_REAGENT]
[DOES_NOT_DETERMINE_PRODUCT_AMOUNT]
[REAGENT:oil:150:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:NONE:NONE]
[UNROTTEN]
[HAS_MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:SOAP_MAT]
[REAGENT:oil container:1:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE]
[CONTAINS:oil]
[PRESERVE_REAGENT]
[DOES_NOT_DETERMINE_PRODUCT_AMOUNT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_TRAP:INORGANIC:WILDFIRE]
[SKILL:ALCHEMY]modtools/projectile-trigger -material INORGANIC:WILDFIRE -command [ modtools/spawn-flow -material INORGANIC:WILDFIRE -location [ \\LOCATION ] -flowType Dragonfire -flowSize 2250 ]
modtools/projectile-trigger -material INORGANIC:WEB_AMMO -command [ modtools/spawn-flow -material INORGANIC:WEB_AMMO -location [ \\LOCATION ] -flowType Web -flowSize 1250 ]For some reason I encounter a really weird crash in every orc fortress I play. Around the 21-23 of Felsite (third month) the game crashes. Because it's around the same date everytime I suspect that a migrant wave causes the issue? Is this a known bug?could you please upload this? I'd love to have a look.
Frankly, I'd like to see an increase in Corsairs most; otherwise it is really hard to find the orcpower for a swashbuckling squad.
new transformation script does retain inventory and I think wounds as well. No free-healing anymore....what sorcery is this? I could find some interesting uses for this.
Do the orks have any true allies? besides other orksGoblins and Succubi.
just a thought, but as the orks are suppose to be from cold climates, maybe you could add a piece of clothing (cloak or robe) made out of several high end ingredients that offers cold immunity to counteract the frost spell spam?There are no frost spells atm. Smake is redoing all the magic interactions and castes.
just a thought, but as the orks are suppose to be from cold climates, maybe you could add a piece of clothing (cloak or robe) made out of several high end ingredients that offers cold immunity to counteract the frost spell spam?
One thing I did notice was, I released an elven slave and he just stuck around as a 'friendly' unit but couldn't actually be put to work. A shame - having some captured slaves to handle my hauling needs would have been nice.
Mostly just enjoying basic lamellar and bloodsteel gear for early military needs, and the whole raiding economy (although it does get fiercely wood-hungry, and potentially metal hungry as well)
Boltguns smartpet script was kinda buggy last version, I hope that is fixed. I did test the create-unit, it did spawn them as civ members when I installed it. I'll do a testrun with the new version.One thing I did notice was, I released an elven slave and he just stuck around as a 'friendly' unit but couldn't actually be put to work. A shame - having some captured slaves to handle my hauling needs would have been nice.
Aha. Maybe Meph can help, since he has more experience with createunit (and implemented this, in fact -- i don't really know in any detail how it works)
One of the things I did vote for is the return of some of the non-playable slaver allies, the ones referenced by the assorted orcish outposts - bandits and drow and such would be cool to see.These were gone since you can change the alliances of the races. In the civs tab you can already make humans into thieves or elves into slavers. Its not quite the same, but in the end its the same game mechanic.
One of the things I did vote for is the return of some of the non-playable slaver allies, the ones referenced by the assorted orcish outposts - bandits and drow and such would be cool to see.
EDIT: Caught a glitch - the cobalt glass reactions in the Ashland Glassblower are looking for powder of POWDER_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:COBALTITE. Cobalt powder is POWDER_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:COBALT. Easy fix, but right now producing cobalt glass is broken.
orcs with savage, hacking axes are kind of iconic, anyways. Maybe a return of the 'jagged axe' mentioned in the manual?
-Blood Bowl Team - Generally a sillier option, should come with plenty of squigs for leather (they're practically balls already!), a stack of squigskins, and wood for setting up pitches. Give all the orcs basic dodging/tackling/throwing skills, representing their status as the promising rookie line-up for the next generation of bloodbowlers. In a perfect world, this has a variant for an eleven-orc embark.Don't forget the cheerleaders!
Was in the civ file, making adjustments to learn rates...didn't see the Harder Learning tag for orcs for this update. Maybe I just keep missing it?Its in the creature files, but nonetheless you are correct, orcs do not have it. I added it for the next update, or simply copy YES_HARDERLEARNING[SKILL_LEARN_RATES:50] into the creature_civ_orc.txt
Um no idea what's happened here but corpse stockpiles won't take any corpses at all (Don't show any corpse types as available in the stockpile window either) and I can't butcher anything. Any ideas?
Where do I get bonemold coins for the warrior's outpost? I don't see bonemold anywhere in the metalcrafter's menu.Forge.
Is it a bug or planned that animal man corpses are unbutcherable
Trying to get into this again after a long delay, and I'm having an odd bit of trouble with being unable to extract blood. I've got a barrel full of various giant kea meats, but the boneforge is saying I don't have a FRESH_BLOOD_MAT item. I shouldn't need to have the "standardized meat" option activated, should I?
Did they ever fix the invasion spawning? Last I herd, raiding did not spawn invasions. Something to do with DFhack, if I recall...Nope... pretty much with free large gems raiding is getting stuff for free
Did they ever fix the invasion spawning? Last I herd, raiding did not spawn invasions. Something to do with DFhack, if I recall...Nope... pretty much with free large gems raiding is getting stuff for free
And I still find no way to mint bonemold coins... I can mint gold, platinum, silver, copper, etc, I can even mint bloodsteel... so my only conclusion is that there is something about the definition of bonemold in inorganics_z_orcfort that keeps this from happening.... I'd like to mint them since I'm sitting on close to 3000 bars from raiding succubus lols....
Huh. I didn't know masterworks getting destroyed at any workshop counted. In my fort I'm selling alot of Masterwork Totems for Bonemold Coins, and my Master Bonecarver don't seem to care.
Huh. I didn't know masterworks getting destroyed at any workshop counted. In my fort I'm selling alot of Masterwork Totems for Bonemold Coins, and my Master Bonecarver don't seem to care.
Speaking of totems, you can now make large gems from bone, shell, horn, ect, and large gems sell for 4000 Bonemold as opposed to a Totems 500. There might be a need to adjust pricing, or have the workshop only accept large gems made of actual gem.
Also, I can't seem to find the Archaeology Workshop that was in old masterwork, but Orcs can still find old chests when raiding. Am I missing something, or is there no longer a use for those?
Pros:
They are usually bigger, stronger, and have more crafting options than Vanilla Dwarves or Succubi. (Havn't played any other masterwork race or masterwork adventure mode, so my experience is a bit limited)
They can use raiders, the arms dealer, and the freelancer's guild for easy access to metal equipment without fuel.
They can make iron and steel equivalent metal out of animal products. I think they can butcher and use sentient beings as well (They could in old MDF, I can't get any invasions to test this in new MDF).
Workstations that allow for the training of various difficult to practice skills. Try the bloodbowl pitch and dismemberment theater (the later is also required as a step to make the meat-metals mentioned above.)
Cons:
Orc Castes come with some heavy bonuses and penalties to skills, and most common regular 'Orc' Caste that you will see the most of has a -50% learning mod to alot of skills. Also, as far as I can tell, all Orcs except for the rare Dreamwalker caste get -50% to all medical skills. The Oolog caste is extra big and powerful, but take a penalty to basicly every skill that isn't used to work with stone or smash fools with blunt objects.
Tech tree can be a bit confusing to learn. To get the blueprints or slaves required for most of the advanced buildings, you will need to get a Raiders Drydock online. The Drydock in turn requires a steady supply of Balista Parts, Woods Bonemold Coins, and Metal Weapons to operate. You can get both the weapons and the coins at the Freelancer's guild by selling cut gems, ropes, and totems. Try to tell the Drydock to unpack loot you do not yet have to learn which raiding mission will give you what you need for the building you want.
Huh. I didn't know masterworks getting destroyed at any workshop counted. In my fort I'm selling alot of Masterwork Totems for Bonemold Coins, and my Master Bonecarver don't seem to care.
Speaking of totems, you can now make large gems from bone, shell, horn, ect, and large gems sell for 4000 Bonemold as opposed to a Totems 500. There might be a need to adjust pricing, or have the workshop only accept large gems made of actual gem.
Also, I can't seem to find the Archaeology Workshop that was in old masterwork, but Orcs can still find old chests when raiding. Am I missing something, or is there no longer a use for those?
true... funny thing warpstone is so low value, you can embark with them for 10 points... and ask for them from your civ for value of 20... and it still sells for 4000 bonemold coins. But yeah its cheap to make rock large gems...
I don't know why orcs weren't given an archaeology workshop... neither were the kobolds. I'm guessing they aren't civilized enough... or in the case of orcs, they already were overpowered.
I couldn't see the "create composite and recurve bow" actions on Orcish Fletcher workshop so i need to ask, can Orcs still build stronger bows? If so how?
Haha the same question I asked when I first joined the forums was this: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158501.msg7043783#msg7043783
Huh. I didn't know masterworks getting destroyed at any workshop counted. In my fort I'm selling alot of Masterwork Totems for Bonemold Coins, and my Master Bonecarver don't seem to care.
Speaking of totems, you can now make large gems from bone, shell, horn, ect, and large gems sell for 4000 Bonemold as opposed to a Totems 500. There might be a need to adjust pricing, or have the workshop only accept large gems made of actual gem.
Also, I can't seem to find the Archaeology Workshop that was in old masterwork, but Orcs can still find old chests when raiding. Am I missing something, or is there no longer a use for those?
true... funny thing warpstone is so low value, you can embark with them for 10 points... and ask for them from your civ for value of 20... and it still sells for 4000 bonemold coins. But yeah its cheap to make rock large gems...
I don't know why orcs weren't given an archaeology workshop... neither were the kobolds. I'm guessing they aren't civilized enough... or in the case of orcs, they already were overpowered.
Kobolds are not supposed to dig, meaning it makes sense for them not to do the archeology. It makes sense for them I guess.
Orcs are civilized to make oil and synthetic silk. Also, the field of Anthropology, which Archaeology is tied to, was born out of colonizers and slaveholders looking to better understand and control their subjects. If anything, I'd argue that the 'Slaver' races are more justified than others for having an Archaeology workshop.
That said, if they don't get the workshop, I could see Fossils turning into a large windfall of Bonemold/Bloodsteel at the boneforge and Chests providing the same in rarer metals at the ancient foundry.
you want something like this:
(http://image.prntscr.com/image/72e95f97b3984d85ba15d99e5748cec3.png)
or are you wanting an actual profile you can just load.
I'm working on a workflow chart for various orc industries, let me know what you are looking for in particular...
and when you say shaza quide.... do you mean the "orc quick guide.png" or the orc information in the manual.html, found in the masterwork folder or something else that I'm not sure of... some of that is outdated and in need of correction.
you want something like this:
(http://image.prntscr.com/image/72e95f97b3984d85ba15d99e5748cec3.png)
or are you wanting an actual profile you can just load.
I'm working on a workflow chart for various orc industries, let me know what you are looking for in particular...
and when you say shaza quide.... do you mean the "orc quick guide.png" or the orc information in the manual.html, found in the masterwork folder or something else that I'm not sure of... some of that is outdated and in need of correction.
I would second that it'd be handy to have shorter names for orcs. Very difficult to remember who is who when they all have such long confusing names that barely fit on the screen.
I have a few questions also:
- is there a list somewhere of which labours are used by the modded workshops? Particularly interested in the drydock, caravanserai, outpost warrior society kits, kobold headhunter, and the training workshops (bloodbowl pitch etc)
- is there currently any use for souls?
- has anyone worked out what the best livestock for a leather industry are? Cragtooth boars are currently looking promising, horned turtles you can't make lamellar out of (and for some reason mine aren't laying fertilised eggs...), I feel like aurochs and mumaks have a really slow growth/reproduction rate (although maybe the pay off is big enough to balance?) and need grass
- how do you get your nobles promoted? In the legends viewer I see Orc thains, jarls and hersirs, and I'm sure I remember being promoted as an orc in previous playthroughs, but it doesn't seem to be happening this time. Pretty sure I meet the vanilla dwarf requirements for promotion
1. They are listed in the reactions in the raw file.... the ones you mentioned:Cheers!
Drydocks - siegecraft
Caravanserai - negotiation - good idea to restrict to your clanspeaker, the trader. Within a year he will be max in it if your using it regularly for selling large rock gems, etc. (shadowbroker, freelancer, arms, farms, etc even the overseer shop is all negotiation...) High negotiation will earn you closer deals, so your trade caravans will walk away with less and less profit.
Outposts - human/elf/dwarf - forge weapon or bowyer skill based on what the item is. Orc outpost is based on sword, spear, or blowgun skill based on the combined weapon created.
Kobold thief - siegecraft all of them.
bloodbowl Pitch - Pass ball - Throw; Kick ball - Stance_strike; Practice coordination - coordination; Tackle the ball carrier - melee combat; Dodge as a ball carrier - Dodging.
Sparring Pit - Shield, Armor, Wrestling, Sword, Spear, Axe, Mace, Hammer as it states.
Dismembering Theatre - Dress wounds, Suture, Set bone, Surgery, diagnose, wood burning based on the what it says your doing.
3. suggestion turn on the additional leather and standard leather mods. makes the stacks larger per creature based on size, and gives one standardized name so you don't end up with 300 different leathers. I never had a need for ranching to gain leathers, I kill enough to get all I need. but If I was going to pick one.... I'd say find something that matures fast, and has large batches of children... random choices... smaller animals reproduce and mature faster, birds have larger clutches.... turtles suck in my opinion. I'd choose a small bird, like chicken. To get eggs to mature, make sure no food stock is set to collect eggs, and that you have at least 2 males.... I always find that if you have 1 male they suck... in a year you will have 100 chicks in a box, in 2 years 100 mature chickens and 1000 chicks. I suggest caging chicks until they mature so they don't affect your fps...Honestly amazed that gets you enough leather. Murdering everything I encounter doesn't get me close to enough bones or leather (the fact I think butchering sentients is still bugged admittedly doesn't help) and I embarked on a savage biome even (I think). Even buying up every animal the caravans bring for immediate slaughter doesn't get me quite as much as I'd like. Doesn't help that the Tigermen haven't visited in some time now...Guess I'll have to try poultry, although I'm not sure how many my civ has access to. Hopefully the Tigermen will come back with something handy!
4. Interesting.... lets see what the raws say:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So to be Great Clanfather/mother you basically have to have a successful fort in a civilization without a monarch.
Warlords and High Warlords are military leaders of a monarch, assigned by a monarch... not sure how you get to these otherwise.
jarls, hersirs, and thains are level 3 2 1 area lords - if you end up with a great clanfather you are stuck, as I've never seen one give that title to someone on his own site.
[LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGER:1:20:10000:100000] - thain - pop 20; wealth exported 10k; wealth created 100k
[LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGER:2:40:20000:200000] - hersirs - pop 40; wealth exported 20k; wealth created 200k
[LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGER:3:60:30000:300000] - jarls - pop 60; wealth exported 30k; wealth created 300k
you will have to manually select people at the workshop or restrict the workshop with a burrow. If you change the profile to only allow certain levels of skill then only an orc who has obtained that level will be able to perform the action at the shop. Since I use autolabor a lot, this last method is my preferred restriction. I just up the skill required (starts out as dabbling, which is basically everyone) a couple of levels every month or so and that way the characters autolabor has set to the labor(or the ones who are actively using the skill in some of these cases) will end up being the only ones using the shop, without having to set each individual orc in the profile manager.1. They are listed in the reactions in the raw file.... the ones you mentioned:Cheers!
Drydocks - siegecraft
Caravanserai - negotiation - good idea to restrict to your clanspeaker, the trader. Within a year he will be max in it if your using it regularly for selling large rock gems, etc. (shadowbroker, freelancer, arms, farms, etc even the overseer shop is all negotiation...) High negotiation will earn you closer deals, so your trade caravans will walk away with less and less profit.
Outposts - human/elf/dwarf - forge weapon or bowyer skill based on what the item is. Orc outpost is based on sword, spear, or blowgun skill based on the combined weapon created.
Kobold thief - siegecraft all of them.
bloodbowl Pitch - Pass ball - Throw; Kick ball - Stance_strike; Practice coordination - coordination; Tackle the ball carrier - melee combat; Dodge as a ball carrier - Dodging.
Sparring Pit - Shield, Armor, Wrestling, Sword, Spear, Axe, Mace, Hammer as it states.
Dismembering Theatre - Dress wounds, Suture, Set bone, Surgery, diagnose, wood burning based on the what it says your doing.
I notice though that some of those are skills and not labours as I understand it. I realise that combat skills affect e.g. the quality levels of the weapon kits produced at the outpost, but is there any toggleable labour that will determine which orc will actually go and perform the reaction?
well I also trap 10x more then I kill. I like cage trap walls. A favorite of mine looks something like this:Quote3. suggestion turn on the additional leather and standard leather mods. makes the stacks larger per creature based on size, and gives one standardized name so you don't end up with 300 different leathers. I never had a need for ranching to gain leathers, I kill enough to get all I need. but If I was going to pick one.... I'd say find something that matures fast, and has large batches of children... random choices... smaller animals reproduce and mature faster, birds have larger clutches.... turtles suck in my opinion. I'd choose a small bird, like chicken. To get eggs to mature, make sure no food stock is set to collect eggs, and that you have at least 2 males.... I always find that if you have 1 male they suck... in a year you will have 100 chicks in a box, in 2 years 100 mature chickens and 1000 chicks. I suggest caging chicks until they mature so they don't affect your fps...Honestly amazed that gets you enough leather. Murdering everything I encounter doesn't get me close to enough bones or leather (the fact I think butchering sentients is still bugged admittedly doesn't help) and I embarked on a savage biome even (I think). Even buying up every animal the caravans bring for immediate slaughter doesn't get me quite as much as I'd like. Doesn't help that the Tigermen haven't visited in some time now...Guess I'll have to try poultry, although I'm not sure how many my civ has access to. Hopefully the Tigermen will come back with something handy!
WWWWWWWWWWWC........W
W........CCC........W
W........CWWWWWWWWWWW
W= walls
C= Cage Trap
I'll have about 6 of these each side on flat 3x3. Material cost is rather low, upkeep is fast. I often just ramp over the wall for caravan entrances at 2 to 4 points. I generally put patrol routes and better defense walls/positions about 1/4th in from that. Trapping brings leathers much faster, I can usually actually reach a point where trapping wipes out surface pops in a 5 years. Plus the traps assist in invasions, catch titans, giants, etc from time to time.Quote
4. Interesting.... lets see what the raws say:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So to be Great Clanfather/mother you basically have to have a successful fort in a civilization without a monarch.
Warlords and High Warlords are military leaders of a monarch, assigned by a monarch... not sure how you get to these otherwise.
jarls, hersirs, and thains are level 3 2 1 area lords - if you end up with a great clanfather you are stuck, as I've never seen one give that title to someone on his own site.
[LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGER:1:20:10000:100000] - thain - pop 20; wealth exported 10k; wealth created 100k
[LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGER:2:40:20000:200000] - hersirs - pop 40; wealth exported 20k; wealth created 200k
[LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGER:3:60:30000:300000] - jarls - pop 60; wealth exported 30k; wealth created 300k
Huh. Pretty sure I've had enough to meet that for a looong time now. Must be something's bugged, I guess.
And thanks for all the answers! :)
1. I think compound bows were taken out for being too OP. I prefer Tomahawks anyway, as they give my rangers a nasty melee attack.
2-3. Not sure. Havn't tried to mess with these things in new MDF.
4. I have the same issue. I hear the best bet is to embark right next to a hostile settlement, but eventually they should find you. I've just started getting Blendec theives at my fort, so hopefully I'll get some excitement soon.
> I open up annoying features such as temples and inns to outside visitors
Wait. How do I open it up to outside visitors? I built a tavern hoping people would show up, but only my orcs go there.
[REACTION:STONE_GRIND]
[NAME:Grind boulder into sand]
[BUILDING:MILLSTONE:CUSTOM_SHIFT_S]
[REAGENT:A:1:BOULDER:NONE:NONE:NONE][REACTION_CLASS:IS_STONE][WORTHLESS_STONE_ONLY]
[REAGENT:B:1:BOX:NONE:NONE:NONE][BAG][EMPTY][PRESERVE_REAGENT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:POWDER_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:SAND_TAN][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150][PRODUCT_TO_CONTAINER:B]
[SKILL:MILLING]
[REACTION:STONE_GRIND_ORC]
[NAME:Grind rocks into sand]
[BUILDING:QUARRY_GHETTO_ORC:CUSTOM_SHIFT_S]
[BUILDING:MILLSTONE:CUSTOM_SHIFT_S]
[REAGENT:A:2:BOULDER:INORGANIC:WORTHLESS_STONE_ONLY]
[REAGENT:B:1:BOX:NONE:NONE:NONE][BAG][EMPTY][PRESERVE_REAGENT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:POWDER_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:SAND_TAN][PRODUCT_TO_CONTAINER:B]
[SKILL:STONECRAFT]
[REACTION:STONE_GRIND_ORC]
[NAME:Grind rocks into sand]
[BUILDING:QUARRY_GHETTO_ORC:CUSTOM_SHIFT_S]
[BUILDING:MILLSTONE:CUSTOM_SHIFT_S]
[REAGENT:A:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:NONE][WORTHLESS_STONE_ONLY]
[REAGENT:B:1:BOX:NONE:NONE:NONE][BAG][EMPTY][PRESERVE_REAGENT]
[PRODUCT:100:1:POWDER_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:SAND_TAN][PRODUCT_TO_CONTAINER:B]
[SKILL:STONECRAFT]
###################################################################
################## ARCHEOLOGIST
###################################################################
Added by Amostubal because otherwise there's no reason for all the treasure chests and relics from the raids.
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_BUILDING:ARCHEOLOGIST]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_REACTION:EXCAVATE_STONE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_FOSSIL]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_RELICT]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_TREASURE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_REACTION:FINISH_RESTORING]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[REACTION:EXCAVATE_STONE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[NAME:Excavate stones(5)]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[BUILDING:ARCHEOLOGIST:CUSTOM_A]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[BUILDING:GUILD_MASON_W:CUSTOM_A]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[REAGENT:A:5:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:NONE]YESARCHEOLOGIST[WORTHLESS_STONE_ONLY]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:5:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_SHORT:INORGANIC:OBSIDIAN]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:5:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR:INORGANIC:OBSIDIAN]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:10:1:CRAFTS:NONE:INORGANIC:CERAMIC_EARTHENWARE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:25:1:CRAFTS:NONE:INORGANIC:CERAMIC_STONEWARE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:5:1:ROUGH:NONE:INORGANIC:FOSSIL]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:2:1:ROUGH:NONE:INORGANIC:RELICT]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:3:1:ROUGH:NONE:INORGANIC:TREASURE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[SKILL:CUTGEM]
additional modification that adds in archaeologist shop... until we have an orc Archaeologist... put it at the end of
ENTITY_SLAVER_ORC.TXTCode: [Select]
###################################################################
################## ARCHEOLOGIST
###################################################################
Added by Amostubal because otherwise there's no reason for all the treasure chests and relics from the raids.
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_BUILDING:ARCHEOLOGIST]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_REACTION:EXCAVATE_STONE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_FOSSIL]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_RELICT]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_TREASURE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PERMITTED_REACTION:FINISH_RESTORING]
and make this change to REACTION_DWARF_CIV.TXT:Code: [Select]YESARCHEOLOGIST[REACTION:EXCAVATE_STONE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[NAME:Excavate stones(5)]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[BUILDING:ARCHEOLOGIST:CUSTOM_A]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[BUILDING:GUILD_MASON_W:CUSTOM_A]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[REAGENT:A:5:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:NONE]YESARCHEOLOGIST[WORTHLESS_STONE_ONLY]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:5:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_SHORT:INORGANIC:OBSIDIAN]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:5:1:WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR:INORGANIC:OBSIDIAN]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:10:1:CRAFTS:NONE:INORGANIC:CERAMIC_EARTHENWARE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:25:1:CRAFTS:NONE:INORGANIC:CERAMIC_STONEWARE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:5:1:ROUGH:NONE:INORGANIC:FOSSIL]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:2:1:ROUGH:NONE:INORGANIC:RELICT]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[PRODUCT:3:1:ROUGH:NONE:INORGANIC:TREASURE]
YESARCHEOLOGIST[SKILL:CUTGEM]
one word (BOULDER:NONE:NONE:NONE to BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:NONE) and the archaeologist can be set to only accept what you set in details so you can individually select the material for excavating. So later when your running basically all dwarf cells for ore you can burn up the dolomite as fast as you can... No more Stockpiles!
On another note I've sent a few messages to our friend smakemupagus... and I've received no reply... I'm considering consolidating all my bug fixes for Orcs into a zip and releasing it. Considering actually making some serious modifications into it.... I think this went off the tracks when magic was considered for orcs. I'm not sure how it could be implemented. But the following changes I could see useful:
1. the above fixes and others I've posted in this forum.
2. addition of a way to craft your own bladesigils and magic missiles for the weapons orcs have access to that use these.
3. an actual orc archaeologist of their own design(I'd start with just a copy of the dwarf archaeologist building, and make the reactions custom to orcs).
4. redesign of the orc metal industry to fix its various issues:
4a. process to gain mithril bars (currentlly you grind raw mithril into dust, then into damascas armors, then melt the armor down for mithril is the current process). I'm thinking a process to take mithril dust (also other metal dusts orcs have access to) and casting it into bars at say the molten pit, damascas forge, or orc factory.
4b. fix the orc smelting issues (most do not produce equal results to the smelter).
5. Do something with all the junk that raids produce.
5a. Possibly a separate building for unpacking raids, that has melt down options (equal amount of metal, but instead of a ton of goods, that you have to melt, it just drops all the goods and provides their metal bar equivalent... with a cost of say 5 coke with it).
5b. Remove the mine raid or make it more valuable(say have possible stacks of axes and picks).
5c. maybe a separate building for making raid boats and raid kits.... so they don't clog up the lists for raids.
5d. use for all the souls received from succubus raids.... I'm thinking a succubus slave cell with reactions for turning the souls into goods or even burning them for skill boosts (as the libraries in the dwarf civ accomplish).
5e. New raids... there are several designed not currently available.
6. Fix the ancient foundry reactions (many of the reactions do not produce better goods then what can be produced at a forge... I hate that... some were originally designed to produce stronger armors that were 'dumbed' down to normal forge goods without reducing the higher reaction costs).
7. New acid reactions for the black furnace, currently the stones used in it are so rare that are a 3x3 embark location usually can only produce a handful of goods, a real waste of a awesome idea.
8. Fixing all the shortcuts that are linked to the different things...
9. Looking into basic magic, although I think that maybe just fixing the ammos for sigilblades and gnarled staffs would be helpful.
just some ideas I've been kicking around.
I might have more to say later, but two comments on what you have said:I was thinking... you put those reactions back down on par with what they would (and do) cost to make at a forge... and put them in batches of say 5/10 at a time... (set up your stockpiles so they don't drag away all the metal bars made at the shop and the time for moving items is virtually 1 tick/bar)... maybe even reduce the cost by 1 or 2 bars.... Was considering setting up an entire category system similar to say the forge:
I agree that the word foundry seems to imply heavy military industry... I still don't like the gear making reactions though. Perhaps let it keep the rare metal making, but other than that have it serve as a version of the Orcish factory that works with better materials and produces better gear types. Perhaps it could even output large batches of some kind of high value block in place of bricks.
I personally like the Bonemold/Bloodsteel industry. Its great if you lack the micromanaging skill or wood supply to shoot straight for heavy raiding right out the gate like you advocate for. A few ideas to make the industry more useful though...See I was considering the orc foundry needed a more robust list of reactions... one of the things I was thinking was that bonemold could be used as.... Bone Mold...
A: Bonemold/Bloodsteel daggers at the factory as an alternative to copper
B: More uses for Flux (Bonemeal). Perhaps it can be sold, or required by Ancient Foundry reactions. (Combine with a reduction in flux drop rate at the Dwarf Labor Cell)Like the mold idea for bonemold, flux from bonemeal is interesting.... flux is a high phosphorus containing material... and bonemeal should contain plenty as why its a part of various fertilizer products...
C: Perhaps an Infernal Forge. Raid the plans from this building from the Succubi. The infernal forge could use various combinations of bonemetals and corpse byproducts (perhaps some souls as well) to produce the upgraded Succubi versions of Bronze and Steel (can't recall the names), magical ammo, and perhaps even animated constructs.Stygium and Afelsteel... They are in the raws... they can get them from traders occasionally(as anvils, bars, etc.), but there is no specific reactions of making them. They are not currently in use in the succubus mod. I'd hate to add anything more to the orcfort/succubus reactions until I know more about the future of the succubus mod from Boltgun. I'll message him... but he's been moving them away from the whole corpses and body parts industry on the whole. currently bonemeal/mold/bloodsteel is really only an orc thing.
D: Perhaps add a lightweight, high value, and awesome colored decorative bonemetal. Perhaps Bonemeal + Ash + Tallow to make a white aluminum stand-in Glossbone. This way it is both easier to craft and haul the furniture made from the bones of your enemies.That's an awesome idea all together. What would be the color?
back to the money thing. It was suggested to me that maybe skullcups should be a replacement for orc money, either of platinum coins or bonemold coins. basically 1 skullcup would equal say a 500 stack of bonemold coins. Skullcup would be a special inorganic material added in so that cups made from it would be called skull cups, description this is a cup made from skull, lol. This would then replace the bonemold coins as pay to orc soldiers for raiding, and bonemold transactions. they would also be usable as actual cups, being dragged around the taverns, etc. We could even have gold/silver versions to replace those coins, and
the soldier version be iron skull or bonemold skull. We set up reactions at say the craftorc for turning 1 bar+1 skull into the {inorganic bar skull} cup. No forging coins, and having quality would make sense.
additionally... I was thinking that we could have civ raids bring back corpses/bones/skulls/etc too, say 1 to 4 but average at 1 (4 products of 1, all of them at 25% chance). These corpses could then be used in the production line as its sometimes hard to hunt for enough animals in early to midgame for enough material for the industry. I'm wondering what the product line would have to be for a corpse to drop. a corpse would then be dragged to the butcher chopped into meat, bones, and a skull. the skull goes to be made into a cup, the bones can be used in the dismemberment theater (or the corpse, another interesting realistic addition, your doctors actually practicing on a humanoid corpse!), the meat can be squeezed for blood, the entire raiding industry becomes entrenched in the bone industry.
D: Perhaps add a lightweight, high value, and awesome colored decorative bonemetal. Perhaps Bonemeal + Ash + Tallow to make a white aluminum stand-in Glossbone. This way it is both easier to craft and haul the furniture made from the bones of your enemies.That's an awesome idea all together. What would be the color?
and to add one to this... I was thinking that maybe a low weight byproduct could be made that would be a "wood" replacement for ship building, for embark locations where wood is scarce/non existent. this material could be such a thing.
okay so yes bonemeal is in reaction_class:flux.. never noticed. not sure if its actually functioning... need to test it, does it actually work as a flux... I've not seen it in the stone lists, and I think it has to show up there for it to function.
Love the kill captives idea... adding it to my list of future reactions. somewhere in all the rewrites of the reactions of shops. When I do, I may double captive drops.... just so the bodies can pile up.
I agree that raiding is rather O.P. I was thinking that 3 different raid boats would be more effective at limiting the rush to the end game... also getting rid of the kobold map search reaction, as it really speeds up reaching pillages and assaults, which isn't even necessary really, without having to trudge through all the low level raiding. say 3 different levels of boats(5 man size, 10 man size, 20 man size) and 3 different levels of raid kits(5 weapons, 10 weapons and 10 shields, 20 weapons/shields/armors). the increased cost of the items, could be offset by raising their return rate(i.e. you loose them less from raid to raid). The larger raid kits could be fed by the lower raids(as most efficient raiders do now), basically just unpack shop feeds a special stockpile that feeds to a raidkit producing shop.
The idea that with a map, one can effectively send 3 small boats with 15 weapons and get 100% return of the main target.... haha... no no no you need to send 3 large boats, with 60 shields, 60 weapons, 60 armors! thumbs up thats how you get a your big target. A large target should have 100+guards in full gear with 300 to 500 citizens, traps, and all sorts of surprises. they are going to rush in and grab what they can and rush out.... if they had 15 daggers and 3 small boats... they aren't going to be returning with anything but a handful of dead friends, lol.
So say all boats need a hull, 1 of 3 sizes, out of either wood or light metal, use the orc factory, boat hulls are big.
All boats need propulsion:
1 of 3 kinds, manual(oars wood or metal), sails(1 wood/metal beam with 4 cloth and 2 ropes) or mechanical engine(magma safe - 4 blocks, 2 mechanisms, large screw).
1 of 3 sizes, manual(4, 8, 16), sails(1 sail, 2, sails, 4 sails), or mechanical (1 engine , 2 engines, 4 engines).
basically build the hulls, oars, sails, engines separately at the factory, and combine them at the drydock. End boat will have same material of the hull, specific name for the size of boat (small boat, long boat, and raider's ship). the actual call for propulsion will disappear, that part is only to assist with making boats. if you live in an area with less wood then using metals over wood would be preferable. Oars could be made singles at the carpenter shop from wood, or in batches of 4 from 4 bars and 1 fuel at the factory(reduces cost for areas strained on wood and fuel). Oars could also be considered basically hammers... nah that's just too much fun having an oar fight on a dock against an undead invasion.... or would it.
On the whole we should get the boat back at the raid reaction the loot crate should be separate. That crate could be automatically busted into captives, food, "resource crate", and "reward crate". so the idea the food and captives are just sitting around waiting for an unpack for 2 years is gone. "resource crates" and "reward crates" would be named for the raid. now you can gather just the reward items, or the resources and stack the others.... or the food and captives could be written into the raid reaction, along with the resource crate, reward crate and that way some raids don't drop resources or rewards crates, but hey we caught a guy with a bag of vegetables... lol.
the biggest problem with automatic reactions... the shop that does it can't have anything set in its work orders, one suspended reaction stops all the automatic reactions until the shop is cleared... I need to investigate automatic reactions and see if there is a way to force automatic reactions... I have an idea... but I'm not really looking at this right now. I've already wasted 10 minutes on this digression... yeah I type too fast.
I don't think doubling captive drop from raids is necessary. You can get as many as you want from the Kobold Thief without much difficulty. You already intend to take away the map/assualt plan reaction there. If anything, I'd slightly lower raid prisoner drops to ensure the Thief is still used.
A few thoughts:
I think low level raids directly feeding high level raids will always yield some sort of rush to the end game. If anything, I'd argue for making the low level raids easier to accomplish, keeping mid-level raids about where they are now (if not making them a bit harder), and ratcheting up both the requirements and rewards of end game raids to make them more of a rare treat than something you can base your entire economy on.
I like the idea of multiple kinds of raid kit, and multiple kinds of hull. This can be used to accomplish both easier early raids and harder late ones.
Low tier raids can be made easier by putting the wood hull making reaction at the siege workshop (bigger than a carpenters workshop) instead of the factory, and having the lowest tier raid kit not specifically require metal weapons. This way you can round up workers and raid for food without necessarily having to establish a metal industry or factory first. All one would really need is furniture to set up the freelancer and drydock, and some stuff to sell to supply the raiders.
Mid-tier weapons kits would require metal scimitars and any shields. It seems impractical to send out serious raiders with only daggers, and calling for bigger weapons means that raids cost a bit more in raw materials. Scimitars were chosen in particular because they can be purchased from the freelancer, so if a player really wants to, they can still skip the metal industry here.
High-tier weapons kits call for firearms, ammo, and quivers. Guns are nice and pirate themed, and also something that even a fairly well established fortress would have to go through some effort to make. I'd call specifically for muskets, as pistols can be purchased from the Freelancer, and we don't want players bypassing the manufacturing entirely at this point. If pistols are chosen instead, perhaps require metal bucklers to go with them. Some guns and ammo can be obtained from earlier raids of course, but the player would be responsible for establishing a more dependable source if they wish to attempt high end raids often.
Finally I'd consider adding Naval Weapons, which are used in addition to traditional weapons kits on missions where the ships themselves are likely to fight (merchant shipping and the assault missions). There are three recipes for naval weapons: Handcannons + Cannonballs, Ballista Parts + Ballista Arrows, and Catapult Parts + A whole bunch of stone. If you go this route, I'd consider making sure that all raids that drop firearms require naval weapons, to ensure an extra step between exists between players and late game raids.
QuoteHigh-tier weapons kits call for firearms, ammo, and quivers. Guns are nice and pirate themed, and also something that even a fairly well established fortress would have to go through some effort to make. I'd call specifically for muskets, as pistols can be purchased from the Freelancer, and we don't want players bypassing the manufacturing entirely at this point. If pistols are chosen instead, perhaps require metal bucklers to go with them. Some guns and ammo can be obtained from earlier raids of course, but the player would be responsible for establishing a more dependable source if they wish to attempt high end raids often.
Finally I'd consider adding Naval Weapons, which are used in addition to traditional weapons kits on missions where the ships themselves are likely to fight (merchant shipping and the assault missions). There are three recipes for naval weapons: Handcannons + Cannonballs, Ballista Parts + Ballista Arrows, and Catapult Parts + A whole bunch of stone. If you go this route, I'd consider making sure that all raids that drop firearms require naval weapons, to ensure an extra step between exists between players and late game raids.
Humans drop guns. maybe adding cannons to the requirements of assault tier raid boats. I severely reduced the drop rates. original raids usually had 2 times the options for drops with an average of 20 to 30 items. I reduced them to an average of 16 for all the raids, with the progression of stronger gear appearing later in the game. the alternative route is outposts (another kind of rarely used set of workshops) were guns appear at.... not sure where else.
I don't think doubling captive drop from raids is necessary. You can get as many as you want from the Kobold Thief without much difficulty. You already intend to take away the map/assualt plan reaction there. If anything, I'd slightly lower raid prisoner drops to ensure the Thief is still used.
note taken... I was thinking of just changing the drop rates of the thief... currently its higher than the drop rates of the raids... and WAYYYYY cheaper. I was thinking that the thief shop should have equal drop rates with the raids, and keep its cheap cost, as it only targets the specific thing. personally the only goblin/kobold shop that really seems to be completely useless is the poisoner and I hate to move the thief shop to that level... I think the thief skills should be designed to allow access to specific targets while avoiding all the extra loot, but at similar rates to the raids.
wow I was playing the old school orc fort... whatever happened to that? besides the raiding causing invasions being a dead thing.... I know I can't create an invasion.... but I can create several hostile units of a target race to appear when an unpacking is attempted, but its not the same. that is of course the reason that raiding is so overpowered because there should of been a random chance of an invasion every time you accomplished a raid. The magic was an awesome and robust system, it took me several hours of play and several walks through the raws to figure out how to accomplish it but before you knew it, I had a couple of units tossing ice balls and fire...
Was there really so many changes between the 2 DFs that the entire system had to be trashed?
anyways... I've been plugging away and making interesting changes to what I have... I was looking at the old version to see if their was any way to just port the magic over. but I still don't understand fully what it was doing... I'll come back to that next week. Besides, its too quiet around here and I'm missing Meph... even boltgun has gone rather quiet lately.