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Dwarf Fortress => DF General Discussion => Topic started by: Toady One on October 15, 2009, 08:48:47 pm

Title: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Toady One on October 15, 2009, 08:48:47 pm
The third one has been posted. (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/df_talk.html)

Any comments about the format, content, quality, etc. of the call are welcome.

We're still deciding on what to do with the questions thread.  The current situation with a new thread each time might need to be changed, since most questions don't get asked and we might as well carry them over somehow, but that's also unwieldy in its own way.  Setting up an email account would be convenient for it, but for some reason my new server only lets me have a single one.

edit:  There's a transcript (http://www.bay12games.com/media/df_talk_3_transcript.html) up on the page now.  Thanks as always to mallocks!
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 15, 2009, 08:53:03 pm
You could open a free gmail account specifically for it. I use them for various things because it has a clean web interface and can pop3 to outlook.

Edit: First...!
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Quatch on October 15, 2009, 09:28:04 pm
Woo! Doing things like this really helps bridge the wait time for the next release. I think it fair to say we're all rooting for you.

Also, the gmail could be set to filter out non-DF questions, and forward to your regular email, or whatever. Its quite flexible. I suppose you could also set up gmail for your domain ;P
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: wilsonns on October 15, 2009, 09:31:03 pm
Someone transcript it!
(I don't understand english, I just know how to read english...)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: smjjames on October 15, 2009, 09:43:43 pm
If you can read english, wouldn't you be able to understand whats said as its the same as the words?

Anyways, a transcript would be cool too as I'm hard of hearing. :)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: wilsonns on October 15, 2009, 10:49:50 pm
I don't understand, because it sound different as it's written...(In portuguese, "A" sounds like "E", I just know to read english, but I can't understand the talked english, it's hard to a brazilian learn english, and I think that would be hard to a american or english to learn portuguese)

P.S. I hate to be brazilian
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: smjjames on October 15, 2009, 10:55:44 pm
True, english has some wierd rules to it (I think), plus there are alot of words added from many other languages.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Rainseeker on October 16, 2009, 12:12:16 am
Our transcriber asked for us to post it right away.  He's working on it.  Be patient!
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: eerr on October 16, 2009, 12:14:34 am
You know that eternal poll thing?

I suggest you do that with the questions.

&
I would love if the next version of DF came with detailed instructions on how to use the raws.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: smjjames on October 16, 2009, 12:28:51 am
Our transcriber asked for us to post it right away.  He's working on it.  Be patient!

Kewl. :)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Balathustrius on October 16, 2009, 06:35:32 am
Yay!  I love these.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: thvaz on October 16, 2009, 07:48:55 am
If you can read english, wouldn't you be able to understand whats said as its the same as the words?

Anyways, a transcript would be cool too as I'm hard of hearing. :)

I can read english very well, but I can't write at the same level, and though I can understand spoken english, I have to concentrate a lot to do it. If I tried to speak it you would laugh at me.

There is more in learning a language than just knowing the grammatical rules and vocabulary. I myself learnt english mostly by myself, interested in reading some material I could only find in english. Never really practiced conversation in any way.

And besides all this, I'm quite hard at hearing...so I will wait for the trasncript.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Axeforgebeard on October 16, 2009, 08:01:48 am
I don't understand, because it sound different as it's written...(In portuguese, "A" sounds like "E", I just know to read english, but I can't understand the talked english, it's hard to a brazilian learn english, and I think that would be hard to a american or english to learn portuguese)

P.S. I hate to be brazilian
Ha, I understand. I have a Brazilian friend. It's an okay country. And Portuguese actually isn't that hard to learn if you're starting from English- It's a lot simpler. English is an unwieldy, Frankenstein's monster-esque nightmare mash up of like 6 completely different languages.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: alway on October 16, 2009, 08:09:50 am
Yay! Keep the talks coming, they are great!

And ya, speaking or understanding someone speaking another language is much harder than reading/writing it. When reading or writing it, you at least get the chance to edit or read slowly. When people talk, it is usually much more rapidly than someone who is translating it in their head can handle. When reading it, you have all the time you want.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Neonivek on October 16, 2009, 08:40:48 am
Quote
English is an unwieldy, Frankenstein's monster-esque nightmare mash up of like 6 completely different languages

Yes that is a pretty accurate Metaphor. There is a reason why Beef isn't called Cow.

Anyhow I can barely remember what I wanted to comment about. It all seems good with nothing to complain about. Excellently done, though I always wish we could get through more questions... but I understand that it cannot be done because you arn't going to do short answers.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: smjjames on October 16, 2009, 08:50:06 am
I don't understand, because it sound different as it's written...(In portuguese, "A" sounds like "E", I just know to read english, but I can't understand the talked english, it's hard to a brazilian learn english, and I think that would be hard to a american or english to learn portuguese)

P.S. I hate to be brazilian
Ha, I understand. I have a Brazilian friend. It's an okay country. And Portuguese actually isn't that hard to learn if you're starting from English- It's a lot simpler. English is an unwieldy, Frankenstein's monster-esque nightmare mash up of like 6 completely different languages.

More if you count those picked up from Native American languages (alot of place names and states origionate from Native American languages) and the occasional word from other non-european languages. English pretty much reflects the multi-cultural entity that the US is, and the fact that several European powers were colonizing the Americas during the colonial period.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Koji on October 16, 2009, 08:52:30 am
Quote
If you can read english, wouldn't you be able to understand whats said as its the same as the words?

It's easier to read than to listen because you can do it at your own pace. I can read perfectly in French, but Parisians speak so fast that I have trouble following movies and TV shows.

Belgians speak slowly enough that it's not a problem. I guess they're just more laid-back.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Granite26 on October 16, 2009, 09:28:11 am
The third one has been posted. (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/df_talk.html)

Any comments about the format, content, quality, etc. of the call are welcome.

We're still deciding on what to do with the questions thread.  The current situation with a new thread each time might need to be changed, since most questions don't get asked and we might as well carry them over somehow, but that's also unwieldy in its own way.  Setting up an email account would be convenient for it, but for some reason my new server only lets me have a single one.

I'm always a big fan of repurposing existing code.... In this case, the suggestions voting :)

It has the advantage of separating the questions from the discussions about the questions, plus you can see what people like most without needing to vote on a 'topic'.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: axus on October 16, 2009, 10:15:01 am
Heheh... I think English was invented in England, not America


More if you count those picked up from Native American languages (alot of place names and states origionate from Native American languages) and the occasional word from other non-european languages. English pretty much reflects the multi-cultural entity that the US is, and the fact that several European powers were colonizing the Americas during the colonial period.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: smjjames on October 16, 2009, 10:26:45 am
Heheh... I think English was invented in England, not America


More if you count those picked up from Native American languages (alot of place names and states origionate from Native American languages) and the occasional word from other non-european languages. English pretty much reflects the multi-cultural entity that the US is, and the fact that several European powers were colonizing the Americas during the colonial period.

I was referring to American English, not British English. Also, English actually has its roots in germanic languages. Given how large the british empire was, I'm sure they picked up some words from other languages.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: G-Flex on October 16, 2009, 11:33:40 am
Saying English is Germanic is still a bit oversimplistic, considering how many roots it has pretty much everywhere.


At any rate, though, reading a foreign language often IS easier than hearing it. I know that if I look at Dutch (which I've never really studied), a lot of it is pretty intelligible to me, but if I listen to it I can hardly understand anything.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Quatch on October 16, 2009, 11:43:06 am
Toady should finish up dwarvish, then we wont need regionalizations!

Learning curve be damned.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: zwei on October 16, 2009, 12:06:02 pm
All non-english people who have trouble, do what i do: get your most favorite series or movies and just watch them without subtitles.

You will learn quite fast.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Mephansteras on October 16, 2009, 12:14:16 pm
Ah, fun. Made my day :)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Dakk on October 16, 2009, 01:00:07 pm
Holy crap awesome. Hearing toady get attacked by scamps while talking about future features aways makes my day. I myself can't wait to head into a good area and meet a purple haired giant shrimp of love, then peel its shell off with an axe.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: mallocks on October 16, 2009, 01:47:29 pm
Working on the transcript guys, will try to have it off to Toady by Monday.

Just a quick query for those who read it as they find listening to it hard to understand; are contractions (I'm, they're, and so on) ok, or are they confusing? It would be simple enough for me to expand them out as I type it up, so if they are a problem, or even an annoyance, just let me know please.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Granite26 on October 16, 2009, 01:49:50 pm
Soap:  Soap can use vegetable oils instead of animal fats.

Tunnels:  This scares me... Hopefully we'll be getting more than 15 levels now!  If 50% of what used to be your ore sources are now open caves...
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Mephansteras on October 16, 2009, 01:54:10 pm
Working on the transcript guys, will try to have it off to Toady by Monday.

I don't use the transcripts myself, but I wanted to note that you are awesome for doing that. It's got to be a lot of work!
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Sunday on October 16, 2009, 02:06:26 pm
Hell yeah!  New DF talk!

Also, I tend to think of languages as more like 4 separate (but interrelated) skills rather than 1.  The skills being reading, writing, speaking, and listening.

Also, go mallocks! 
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: smjjames on October 16, 2009, 02:11:20 pm
Working on the transcript guys, will try to have it off to Toady by Monday.

Just a quick query for those who read it as they find listening to it hard to understand; are contractions (I'm, they're, and so on) ok, or are they confusing? It would be simple enough for me to expand them out as I type it up, so if they are a problem, or even an annoyance, just let me know please.

Bieng a native english speaker, I don't have a problem with that. Could be a problem for speakers of other languages though.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on October 16, 2009, 02:21:33 pm
Working on the transcript guys, will try to have it off to Toady by Monday.

... as I type it up...

holy crap, you TYPE it out? I thought you had speech to text software.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Armok on October 16, 2009, 02:36:53 pm
This was absolutely beutiful as always, made my day! There is so much stuff in each of these, I get a billion questions but I always forget most of them...

Also, I just remembered one, I'll put it here because the questions thread isn't up yet:
How will you treat body gestures such as hugs, pats on backs/shoulders, kissing, menacing/submissive /confident/etc. stances, holding hands, secret handshakes, etc. Will creatures be able to accept deny them? How will they respect body parts and temperatures and contaminants, will there be an very vaguely named one that just happens to be before every pregnancy, how will these tie in with speech, etc. ?
I can imagine finally making peace with the magmamen, and then your dwarf shake hands with their leader...
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: rhuntar on October 16, 2009, 02:51:59 pm
Bieng a native english speaker,

typo in this statement is wonderfully ironic...

Yay DF talk.  made my weekend.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Footkerchief on October 16, 2009, 03:06:02 pm
What was that about grime being the material used in swamp water?  Does that mean that water flagged as "murky" gives you a grime covering?  It would be cool if going swimming in a swamp with open wounds made you more likely to get infected.

Bieng a native english speaker,

typo in this statement is wonderfully ironic...

Not really, considering the huge difference between enunciation and orthography.  Please don't derail with nitpicks.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Rainseeker on October 16, 2009, 03:10:26 pm
I may not like myself for "spoiling" this, but how do you guys like the outtakes at the end?  ...the very end.  They made me laugh when I listened to them again.  :D
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: atomfullerene on October 16, 2009, 03:11:43 pm
Oh English, what a wonderfully confusing language.  Most every word has a basic Germanic version, a fancier French version, an erudite Greek/Latin version.  And takes and misapplies the spelling rules from each!  English doesn't borrow words from other languages, it follows them down dark alleyways, hits them over the head, and rifles through their pockets for loose vocabulary.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Sunday on October 16, 2009, 03:36:55 pm
Just finished listening to it.

I guess aquatic megabeasts are in.  That description cracked me up.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Footkerchief on October 16, 2009, 03:40:16 pm
I guess aquatic megabeasts are in.  That description cracked me up.

Yeah, the shrimp was amusing.  I'm curious, now, if shrimp and other vermin got full body definitions to be used for their titan forms.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: atomfullerene on October 16, 2009, 04:23:42 pm
Of course no one complained about Toady neutering his cat!  Among other things, Dwarf fortress is practically an educational game about the dangers of unrestrained cat reproduction.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: mallocks on October 16, 2009, 04:30:45 pm
Working on the transcript guys, will try to have it off to Toady by Monday.

... as I type it up...

holy crap, you TYPE it out? I thought you had speech to text software.

Ah, no, all typed, hence the turnaround time :)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 16, 2009, 05:09:02 pm
"A monster must make it from the [spawn point] to your fort"
clearly Toady hasn't sighted ninja spawns.

...AQUIFERS ARE USEFUL. Infinite water without a channel, also infinite water disposal. At least soil aquifers.

Toadyscream: See intro movie.  ;D

5 layers of stuff before underground? ...That kind of is annoying with Noise issues.

re: Prison gang issues: Oh, so Headshoots East/West might mean something!

What you doing Mr Cat? :)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: XSI on October 16, 2009, 06:02:20 pm
This was a very nice thing to listen to, I couldn't wait for tomorrow, so I've just listened to it now(1:00 am here in west Europe).

As for feedback, the content was good, I liked the bit at the end, some parts had me smiling(Which is a lot for me).

Quality, format, they all seem good, answers to questions were detailed and interesting to listen to, which is definitely a good thing.

The only thing I kind of missed a little was being able to have the questions thread open while listening, so I could type whatever questions I came up with right away, instead of maybe remembering them later, though I'm probably going to listen to it again tomorrow or after that, at a time I'm not supposed to be sleeping.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: smjjames on October 16, 2009, 06:18:30 pm
I guess aquatic megabeasts are in.  That description cracked me up.

Yeah, the shrimp was amusing.  I'm curious, now, if shrimp and other vermin got full body definitions to be used for their titan forms.

DF needs an Anomalcaris in megabeast form  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Also, shrimp exist as vermin? I've never seen those around.

Still, I always knew that aquatic megabeasts had to be in, it's just logical. So, yea, we'll be seeing stuff like Leviathans (probably an appropriate name for aquatic megabeasts/titans in general). However, they don't need to be limited to aquatic body definitions. I think.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Footkerchief on October 16, 2009, 06:23:50 pm
Also, shrimp exist as vermin? I've never seen those around.

Yeah, that was the part I forgot to ask.  It's possible that shrimp are just a hardcoded template in the generator, I guess.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: smjjames on October 16, 2009, 06:29:30 pm
Maybe they're something new? A search in the file directory yielded nothing, and no hits on the wiki either.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Rainseeker on October 16, 2009, 06:38:09 pm
I just want to see a titan carp.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: smjjames on October 16, 2009, 06:39:49 pm
How about a Kraken? :)

Although we need to put some cephalopod body definitions in to get something like that.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: ArkDelgato on October 16, 2009, 06:57:39 pm
Oh man did I laugh when Toady was talking about not being able to control scamps and the sad music began to play.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: SirPenguin on October 16, 2009, 07:17:02 pm
I compiled a list of the highlights/new info we learned during this chat. It's definitely not 100% comprehensive like the transcript will be, but this should provide some info for those who haven't listened yet or didn't catch anything

http://dwarffortress.com/2009/10/16/highlights-from-the-dwarf-fortress-talk-3/
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: smjjames on October 16, 2009, 08:23:48 pm
So, either we can dig deeper down (pun and reference to the mod not really intended) or the world(s) that DF is in have a crust that is less than a mile thick.

About how deep would 15 z levels from the lowest 'ground' level be? I'm pretty sure it would be less than half a mile and considering the size of the new stuff.

Also, the FOW (Fog of War) is standard stuff for RTS games.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Rainseeker on October 16, 2009, 11:55:52 pm
I just wanted to informally announce here that a new Dorf Shorts is about to release as well.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Puzzlemaker on October 17, 2009, 12:52:42 am
AWESOME.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 17, 2009, 01:33:49 am
This is less FoW and more 'explored territory'- it doesn't re-disappear.

Alas, only once can you really get dozens of dwarfs cheering a word to be amusing.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Rainseeker on October 17, 2009, 02:12:35 am
This is less FoW and more 'explored territory'- it doesn't re-disappear.

Alas, only once can you really get dozens of dwarfs cheering a word to be amusing.

Are you referring to my next episode?  It's not about soap this time.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Supermikhail on October 17, 2009, 05:21:28 am
For some reason, the point about Elves being an immortal civilization caught my attention. So, here I go:

I read in a book on biology that hunters-gatherers used to live very happily and leisurely, comparing to us, except they had a very pressing question of population regulation because there is only so much you can hunt/gather from a strip of land you're living on, and only so many people you can feed. So, times were harsh, and people had to have measures: like killing unfit babies after birth. And so Elves could have ever slowing rate of population increase because they have birth control. And because of it Elves could have quite a stressful society and speech ethics connected to the population control. I assume, Elves are pretty much hunters-gatherers, and they don't have the leisure of cultivating land and fitting the world to their needs.
And also, they could have the initiation ritual, in which young elves have to prove their worth to the society. So, elven rangers-not-yet-initiates could stumble on your fortress in search of wisdom and new lands.
But then, after a war of Silmarillionesque scale, some elves could forget about their code. Why can't we have industrialist elves along with hippy elves?
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Toady Two on October 17, 2009, 05:51:48 am
Really fun to listen to. Can wait for the next one.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: PsychoBuck on October 17, 2009, 08:21:43 am
Toady, "Its always one of my greatest kicks. Looking at the forum and someone's like, ""It said someone has pulled a lever!"" (Both laughing), ""Then my fortress was flooded"" or whatever and I enjoy that kind of thing. I enjoy it when it happens because it is not a bug, it is just something horrible that happens."
Rainseeker, "So do you enjoy it when people lose tragically?"
Toady, "Yeah! Yeah, its good straight fun."

Oh, how sweet. Toady truly cares about his fans.  :D
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: shadow_archmagi on October 17, 2009, 08:42:22 am
I loved when I was listening to the questions and there was some guy who was like "The game should scale and adjust itself to the player, like, if I am a warrior, bandits should appear!" and Toady completely denied him.

I'm really glad to see that Toady is sticking with the original "This is the world it is the way that random numbers made it" philosophy that made me love DF so much.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Name Lips on October 17, 2009, 01:16:23 pm
The new underground stuff sounds so awesome... it's what I've felt was missing from the 3d version since it first came out - genuine underground terrain. I've longed for something to explore and discover down there besides the occasional pool, magma, or HFS. Add the new problem of reoccuring underground invaders, plus aboveground invaders, plus the new burrow system to try to keep your dwarves contained and safe... its' everything I wanted.

Well, not quite everything. I'm really looking forward to improved sieges. Imagine goblins that can bring catapults and break down your fortifications! Or build rafts/bridges over moats, or break down doors, or disable traps. Imagine never, ever, ever being safe, no matter how hard you try to make your fortress impregnable. Imagine, if you will, a totally secluded underwater fortress finally secure against goblins... only to be sieged by merfolk. BooYEAH! (OK, I don't think that's happening, but if it's possible to mod it in I will).
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Johnny Chthonic on October 17, 2009, 03:08:28 pm
Did I hear Toady imply that there would be randomly generated clowns? I am so excited for this.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Rainseeker on October 17, 2009, 03:12:13 pm
Did I hear Toady imply that there would be randomly generated clowns? I am so excited for this.

Clowns?  No.  Evil denizens of the deep... yes.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Neonivek on October 17, 2009, 03:13:28 pm
Quote
Toady completely denied him

He didn't completely deny him. He said two important things in that regard

1) The the world should recognise your character and thus respect your character.
and
2) If Toady cannot do this, he may have no choice but to force this behavior (but that he is confident he won't need to)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Footkerchief on October 17, 2009, 03:27:31 pm
Clowns?  No.  Evil denizens of the deep... yes.

You might know already, but "clown" and "funhouse" are the new popular terms for "demon" and "whatever replaces the glowing pits," respectively.

And I think I did catch the hint that Johnny Chthonic was talking about, but I'll wait for the transcript to check.  (mallocks, you are a hero)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Rainseeker on October 17, 2009, 06:14:23 pm
Clowns?  No.  Evil denizens of the deep... yes.

You might know already, but "clown" and "funhouse" are the new popular terms for "demon" and "whatever replaces the glowing pits," respectively.

And I think I did catch the hint that Johnny Chthonic was talking about, but I'll wait for the transcript to check.  (mallocks, you are a hero)

Ya I know, I was just having fun with it too.  :) Who first came up with Clowns tho?
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Paul on October 17, 2009, 07:33:53 pm
Haha, I just got back into listening to these. Very entertaining :)

I'm glad to see gremlins and dangers from the deep coming back in. I haven't played the 3d versions that much due to the lack of real danger, so it will be nice to have some excitement back in the game.

Gremlins were especially fun, I fondly remember one specific incident from the 2d version. I remember my elaborate 2d magma trap where one lever closed off the whole front section of hallway and the second pumped it full of magma. A gremlin snuck in and pulled the lava lever (which was completely unsafe before previously pulling the close-off lever). Before I got a dwarf to the lever to close it off my entire entry area was full of magma, my trade depot was burnt up (including the poor dwarven caravan for that year), and half a dozen dwarves were killed. I had to close off the magma gate and quickly raise the emergency bridges to seal off the magma to keep it from the rest of the fort. Even after securing the fort, the wave of magma poured out and burnt up every living thing outside the fort (including a herd of elephants and a few poor dwarves who were out gathering wood).
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: SirPenguin on October 17, 2009, 09:43:07 pm
Is that music that plays for these available separately at all? They're so relaxing
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Footkerchief on October 17, 2009, 10:01:24 pm
Is that music that plays for these available separately at all? They're so relaxing

I really liked the more lively bit that plays around 41:20.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Rainseeker on October 17, 2009, 10:01:50 pm
Is that music that plays for these available separately at all? They're so relaxing

It depends on Ollieh.  Ask him, he may be willing to share!
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: eerr on October 17, 2009, 10:12:01 pm
Also, shrimp exist as vermin? I've never seen those around.

Yeah, that was the part I forgot to ask.  It's possible that shrimp are just a hardcoded template in the generator, I guess.
Only in legends, just like wizards.

except now that toady is making giant mutant shrimp populate the underworld.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: James.Denholm on October 18, 2009, 04:52:26 am
Also, shrimp exist as vermin? I've never seen those around.

Yeah, that was the part I forgot to ask.  It's possible that shrimp are just a hardcoded template in the generator, I guess.
Only in legends, just like wizards.

except now that toady is making giant mutant shrimp populate the underworld.
An easy explanation to this legends-only shrimpness:

146 - The human Forrest Gump has founded Bubba Gump Shrimp Co.!
147 - Shrimps are now extinct.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: G-Flex on October 18, 2009, 05:00:59 am
Did I hear Toady imply that there would be randomly generated clowns? I am so excited for this.

It's not really "implied". He specifically mentioned it in the spoiler dev_now update adventure thingy a while back, and explained it a back.

Here's the content of it:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: smjjames on October 18, 2009, 06:33:48 am
Also, shrimp exist as vermin? I've never seen those around.

Yeah, that was the part I forgot to ask.  It's possible that shrimp are just a hardcoded template in the generator, I guess.
Only in legends, just like wizards.

except now that toady is making giant mutant shrimp populate the underworld.
An easy explanation to this legends-only shrimpness:

146 - The human Forrest Gump has founded Bubba Gump Shrimp Co.!
147 - Shrimps are now extinct.

I'd like to see proof of this though.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: HammerHand on October 18, 2009, 09:37:03 am
Oh, my.  All this new underground terrain is going to completely change the way I build and design a fortress.  No longer can I count on using the bottom level as a complex, sanctified catacomb.  No longer can I ensure all my dwarves' bedrooms are deep in solid stone.  No longer can I rest assured that my vast crafting halls and their related in/out stockpiles will have the freedom to accommodate three z-levels for minimal walking distance.

... This is going to be awesome.  After a while, all my fortresses were starting to look the same after two or three z-levels down.  Now they'll all have to be unique, and deal with their own architectural problems.

I cannot express how much I am looking forward to this.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: ArkDelgato on October 18, 2009, 12:19:34 pm
It is going to be amazing to breach an underground lake filled with
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
only to be victorious and drain the lake into a large dining room.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: mallocks on October 18, 2009, 01:09:38 pm
mallocks cancels job: interrupted by illness

Apologies folk but there is no reasonable way I can get this done by the promised date (Monday) in my current state. 'Cancel' is an exaggeration but it is on hold for the time being, however I will still do my best to bring it out before too long; but after this time I don't want to set a precise date only to let people down again.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Footkerchief on October 18, 2009, 01:17:38 pm
No worries.  Hope it's nothing too serious.

It's not really "implied". He specifically mentioned it in the spoiler dev_now update adventure thingy a while back, and explained it a back.

Clowns = demons.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Rainseeker on October 18, 2009, 01:25:36 pm
mallocks cancels job: interrupted by illness

Apologies folk but there is no reasonable way I can get this done by the promised date (Monday) in my current state. 'Cancel' is an exaggeration but it is on hold for the time being, however I will still do my best to bring it out before too long; but after this time I don't want to set a precise date only to let people down again.


That's okay, Mallocks!  Get better soon!  Thanks for your hard work!  :D
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Fieari on October 18, 2009, 01:34:59 pm
Did I hear Toady imply that there would be randomly generated clowns? I am so excited for this.

It's not really "implied". He specifically mentioned it in the spoiler dev_now update adventure thingy a while back, and explained it a back.
We know about those.  What's kind of new is that Toady promised randomly generated -Clowns-.  Not just carnies and ticket attendants like you described there.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Supermikhail on October 18, 2009, 02:38:29 pm
Wait, wait. I am totally confused: some people say that clowns are evil beasts
Clowns?  No.  Evil denizens of the deep... yes.

You might know already, but "clown" and "funhouse" are the new popular terms for "demon" and "whatever replaces the glowing pits," respectively.

And I think I did catch the hint that Johnny Chthonic was talking about, but I'll wait for the transcript to check.  (mallocks, you are a hero)

Ya I know, I was just having fun with it too.  :) Who first came up with Clowns tho?

And others - that
Did I hear Toady imply that there would be randomly generated clowns? I am so excited for this.

It's not really "implied". He specifically mentioned it in the spoiler dev_now update adventure thingy a while back, and explained it a back.
We know about those.  What's kind of new is that Toady promised randomly generated -Clowns-.  Not just carnies and ticket attendants like you described there.
Because in the latter case my vote is kinda pointless already. I'd like to hear about professions. What would be Toady's profession in the Dwarf Fortress world? Especially with current profession assigning mechanics. Because in the real world, I guess, it belongs to the field of entertainment. But in game anyone with a profession like that is marked useless. And I feel sorry about poor dudes who have (are damned with) the tag "noble" and get viciously drowned in water/lava. And can't do anything about it.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: G-Flex on October 18, 2009, 04:41:02 pm
Did I hear Toady imply that there would be randomly generated clowns? I am so excited for this.

It's not really "implied". He specifically mentioned it in the spoiler dev_now update adventure thingy a while back, and explained it a back.
We know about those.  What's kind of new is that Toady promised randomly generated -Clowns-.  Not just carnies and ticket attendants like you described there.

Oh, you mean the HFS-related ones, not just the megabeasts. Yeah, I can't wait to see what kind of crazy stuff the game will throw at us.


I'm kind of wondering how adamantine will be figured into it, since it's going to apparently be on a "grander" scale than the simple pits.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Footkerchief on October 18, 2009, 04:50:35 pm
Some feedback for the hosts: the first half of the interview, where you're asking your own questions, feels stronger to me because there's more followup from the hosts, and generally more of a dialogue.  Obviously it's harder to follow up on somebody else's questions, so in my opinion you should feel free to pick the questions that you find personally interesting, without regard for whether they're more popular or relevant or whatever.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Rainseeker on October 18, 2009, 06:38:26 pm
Some feedback for the hosts: the first half of the interview, where you're asking your own questions, feels stronger to me because there's more followup from the hosts, and generally more of a dialogue.  Obviously it's harder to follow up on somebody else's questions, so in my opinion you should feel free to pick the questions that you find personally interesting, without regard for whether they're more popular or relevant or whatever.

Thanks, Foot.  Good comment.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Dakk on October 18, 2009, 06:55:11 pm
I still have trouble hearing captain'tastic's voice, its much better then on the last two but his voice is aways the hardest to understand. I dunno if its his voice or the mic, I just had to say it because its probably the only real critic I have.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Capntastic on October 18, 2009, 11:12:30 pm
I still have trouble hearing captain'tastic's voice, its much better then on the last two but his voice is aways the hardest to understand. I dunno if its his voice or the mic, I just had to say it because its probably the only real critic I have.

I have a tendency to slip into monotone on phone/skype conversations, and that combined with wonky microphone and internet lag seems to reduce the quality sometimes.   During the recording breaks I'm constantly asking 'did I sound alright??'.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Neonivek on October 18, 2009, 11:31:30 pm
I can understand your voice changing.

I either start yelling for no reason or start using a high pitched sing songy voice (Oddly I naturally immitate my mom when she is on the phone... UNFORTUNATELY I am male so reaching that pitch is unusual. There is a reason why people keep mistaking me for her)
-I seem to be having that problem in general now where I'll match the voice of the person I am speaking to. Which isn't unusual in it of itself but I do it to, too far of an extent.

Actually I was very tempted to join the popcasts but after remembering my yelling problem... I don't think it is a good idea :D
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: buman on October 19, 2009, 01:09:37 am
You know that eternal poll thing?

I suggest you do that with the questions.



I support this message
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: shadow_archmagi on October 19, 2009, 06:49:33 am
We don't seem to have a seperate thread (I rolled a 1 on me spot check maybe) for this so:

I <3 the dorf shorts!
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: SirPenguin on October 19, 2009, 08:30:10 am
I still have trouble hearing captain'tastic's voice, its much better then on the last two but his voice is aways the hardest to understand. I dunno if its his voice or the mic, I just had to say it because its probably the only real critic I have.

I have a tendency to slip into monotone on phone/skype conversations, and that combined with wonky microphone and internet lag seems to reduce the quality sometimes.   During the recording breaks I'm constantly asking 'did I sound alright??'.

Well thankfully the formatting of the show is like 95% Toady, 5% you guys asking questions and such, so it's not that big of a deal
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 19, 2009, 05:04:49 pm
re: Dorf Shorts #3:

Tha'ss Greeat! ;D
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Rainseeker on October 19, 2009, 05:18:13 pm
re: Dorf Shorts #3:

Tha'ss Greeat! ;D

:D
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: michaelmuffin on October 19, 2009, 07:05:50 pm
if anyone is interested, that post from a few pages back about the english language contains a "quotation" from james d nicoll. here it is in its entirety:
Quote
The problem with defending the purity of the English language
is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't
just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages
down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle [sic] their pockets for
new vocabulary.
nicoll's original post: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.sf-lovers/msg/c961c46670ca97d6?pli=1 (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.sf-lovers/msg/c961c46670ca97d6?pli=1)
and another thing about it: http://linguistlist.org/issues/13/13-499.html (http://linguistlist.org/issues/13/13-499.html)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Armok on October 20, 2009, 06:12:18 am
re: Dorf Shorts #3:

Tha'ss Greeat! ;D

 :D
^_^
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: mallocks on October 20, 2009, 01:01:29 pm
The transcript's typed up, just the html conversion and it'll be off to Toady
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: smjjames on October 20, 2009, 01:17:58 pm
Cool, thanks Mallocks.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Toady One on October 21, 2009, 02:02:27 am
All right, the transcript (http://www.bay12games.com/media/df_talk_3_transcript.html) is up now!  mallocks awesome.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Footkerchief on October 21, 2009, 02:11:14 am
"Whoosh, splat" is exactly correct (mallocks update: still awesome).  However, as much as I like that effect, it clearly wasn't created with a universal material system in mind.  I mean, what about the crunch of bone and so on?  And a magma man wouldn't go splat!  It would go "blorp" or something, because viscosity.  DF might have to steal Jurassic Park: Trespasser's system for dynamically producing sounds for collisions between two arbitrary objects, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trespasser_%28computer_game%29#Sound) which was apparently one of its few innovations that actually worked well.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: HammerHand on October 21, 2009, 12:54:17 pm
re: Dorf Shorts #3:

Tha'ss Greeat! ;D

 :D

I have, again, altered my signature to reflect the greatness of Dorf Shorts.  Tha's a really grreat dorf short y'made there, Rainseeker.  Keep up the grreat work!
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: MMad on October 21, 2009, 02:13:07 pm
All right, the transcript (http://www.bay12games.com/media/df_talk_3_transcript.html) is up now!  mallocks awesome.

Yay! Thanks mallocks. :)

DF might have to steal Jurassic Park: Trespasser's system for dynamically producing sounds for collisions between two arbitrary objects, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trespasser_%28computer_game%29#Sound) which was apparently one of its few innovations that actually worked well.

Hehe, I really liked that buggy mess of a game. :) The sound was indeed pretty awesome for its time.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #3: Feedback
Post by: Darkerson on October 22, 2009, 10:00:55 am
Everything was great! It was awesome getting my question answered 1st ;D