Post by: Pandarsenic on November 03, 2009, 01:20:22 am
This is otherwise known as U-Pick. I shall do my best to insure playability and avoid broken games.
Therefore, let's play!
As for rules:
PMing: Disallowed (Mafia ONLY)
Hammering: HELLS YES
Quoting Mod: ALWAYS Disallowed
Added by Pandarsenic: Roleblockers are immune to roleblocks used that night for the sake of avoiding paradoxen.
Spoiler: Players: 5 alive of 19 (click to show/hide)
You must name the person you are unvoting so I can figure out who on my list of 19 people it is. I can't view that many lines of text at 800x600 resolution.
Jester (Zai) has won epically.
Lyncher (Mr.Person) has won dramatically.
Mafia (Leafsnail, Vector, Cheddarius, GlyphGryph, CobaltKobold) has won hilariously.
Town (everyone else) has lost.
Replaced players (Org, Rashilul, SHAD0Wdump) have lost epically.
Post by: JanusTwoface on November 03, 2009, 01:24:14 am
Edit: And then I noticed that there's another one already running to read as well. Great fun. That's what I get for not generally reading the main boards. :D
How many players are you hoping for?
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 03, 2009, 01:29:58 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 03, 2009, 01:34:51 am
I kind of want to in (lovely powers and a chance to finally be mafia perhaps?) but I think my inexperience may yet be too much of a handicap. Also that it might be a mafia game too many. So I won't yet.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 03, 2009, 01:35:58 am
Post by: Cheeetar on November 03, 2009, 01:37:03 am
Post by: Vector on November 03, 2009, 01:37:57 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 03, 2009, 01:38:27 am
I'll wait to send role, since it'll be a while.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 03, 2009, 01:45:24 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 03, 2009, 01:46:34 am
Post by: Vector on November 03, 2009, 01:47:41 am
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 03, 2009, 01:47:56 am
I'd prefer deadlines, but I could go either way.
Post by: Neruz on November 03, 2009, 02:03:26 am
Deadlines, Hammers are fun, but most people seem to take Mafia too seriously for that style to really work.
Post by: dakarian on November 03, 2009, 10:44:21 am
and I'm in.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 03, 2009, 10:46:32 am
!xmafia in
Let's see if I get a brosome role again.
Post by: Leafsnail on November 03, 2009, 10:48:30 am
Quote
Let's see if I get a brosome role again.It's your fault if you don't,
Anyway, in and preparing to send role pm.
Post by: JanusTwoface on November 03, 2009, 10:57:51 am
This isn't starting until KWN Mafia finishes.Speaking of which...
I try to keep myself limited to no more than 3 mafias at the same time. Now that KWN is over, I'll go ahead and in. This sounds interesting. If you put the same amount of awesome into the actual role definitions this time, it should be some form of crazy!
Oh, and it would be interesting to try a hammer game (although I don't mind if a time limit is chosen).
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 03, 2009, 10:59:41 am
I'm gonna hate myself...
IN
Post by: Org on November 03, 2009, 11:28:26 am
Post by: ExKirby on November 03, 2009, 11:43:37 am
Post by: dakarian on November 03, 2009, 01:19:17 pm
Just like that, there's more people to join this one than the last Para game.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 03, 2009, 04:00:16 pm
Anyway, I'll join, since the Kill Webadict game is over.
And...let's try a game with Hammers in it.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 03, 2009, 04:28:34 pm
Post by: Eduren on November 03, 2009, 04:56:04 pm
Post by: Zai on November 03, 2009, 05:33:03 pm
Post by: Eduren on November 03, 2009, 06:03:03 pm
Post by: Neruz on November 03, 2009, 06:38:14 pm
Post by: Eduren on November 03, 2009, 06:42:08 pm
Nevermind then.
Post by: Zai on November 03, 2009, 06:54:56 pm
I think we might have passed the 13 mark awhile ago XD
No, actually, considering the requirement for joining is to post whether you prefer deadlines or hammers and send in your role via PM, not just saying "in". Only 10 people so far have said if they want deadlines or hammers. Eduren being the 10th and most recent as of this post.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 03, 2009, 06:55:35 pm
Post by: Neruz on November 03, 2009, 06:55:43 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 03, 2009, 07:51:56 pm
If more than 13 people want in, I'll accept more, I guess. I want an odd number though.
Post by: Neruz on November 03, 2009, 07:53:51 pm
Oh. Uh.
If more than 13 people want in, I'll accept more, I guess. I want an odd number though.
First clue!
Post by: ToonyMan on November 03, 2009, 07:58:35 pm
Oh. Uh.
If more than 13 people want in, I'll accept more, I guess. I want an odd number though.
First clue!
That's not a clue, that's common sense!
Post by: webadict on November 03, 2009, 08:02:30 pm
Post by: Neruz on November 03, 2009, 08:03:09 pm
Oh. Uh.
If more than 13 people want in, I'll accept more, I guess. I want an odd number though.
First clue!
That's not a clue, that's common sense!
Stop trying to decieve us Toony, you're in league with Pandar aren't you?! Swine!
ToonyMan.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 03, 2009, 08:42:39 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 03, 2009, 08:44:58 pm
*dances in baggy pants*
Post by: Neruz on November 03, 2009, 08:49:45 pm
Post by: webadict on November 03, 2009, 09:15:50 pm
Post by: Org on November 03, 2009, 09:17:36 pm
... HAMMA!STOP! HAMMA TIME!
Post by: Neruz on November 03, 2009, 09:47:59 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 03, 2009, 10:47:43 pm
Quote from: helpful player list, in order of lynchtype vote
MrPerson HAMMERS
CoKo DEADLINES
Vector DEADLINES
ApostolicNihilist DEADLINES
Neruz DEADLINESdacron dacquiridakarian HAMMER
JanusTwoFace HAMMER
Mephansteras HAMMER
Zai DEADLINES
eduren DEADLINES
ToonyMan HAMMER
webadict HAMMER
Quote from: Nonvoters in order of signups
(1st o'erall)SirBayerHammer[6]:MrP dakarian Janus Meph Toony Webadict
(2nd o'erall)Cheeetar
Leafsnail
SHAD0Wdump
Org
ExKirby
Deadlines[6]:CK Vec AN Neruz Zai Eduren
Abstaining[6]:SirBayer Cheetar Leafy Shad0w Org ExKirby
Post by: ToonyMan on November 03, 2009, 10:49:28 pm
I don't know about that.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 03, 2009, 10:53:02 pm
Post by: Neruz on November 03, 2009, 10:53:23 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 03, 2009, 11:03:21 pm
Quote from: NOOOO
Hammer[8]:MrP dakarian Janus Meph Toony Webadict Shad0w NeruzC'mon guys vote deadlines!
Deadlines[5]:CK Vec AN Zai Eduren
Abstaining[5]:SirBayer Cheetar Leafy Org ExKirby
Post by: ToonyMan on November 03, 2009, 11:07:20 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 03, 2009, 11:14:34 pm
I want to see hammer, I've never done it.Lynch the liar, you were there with me in SMOL!
Post by: Cheeetar on November 03, 2009, 11:32:50 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 03, 2009, 11:45:12 pm
Since you can't just have the day end with 2 people voting on someone and getting a lynch, the town as a whole becomes more involved in actually having to make choices. What's more, without a deadline shutting the conversation down, we can keep the talk going for as long as we need to.
The thing about Hammering is that putting someone to L-1 happens often, but the actual Hammervote takes much longer since hammering early is a Very Very Strong scumtell. The hammer always gets suspected so you need to have a good reason or the town's support to lynch.
Also, voting is easier to do with Hammering since you don't have to worry about voting then the deadline forcing a lynch. Again, if a player causes that then, chances are, they are scum anyway.
Post by: Rashilul on November 04, 2009, 01:25:17 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 04, 2009, 04:59:41 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 04, 2009, 05:01:58 am
You get MORE discussion with Hammer!If discussion dies and there's no deadline, it gets much deader.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 04, 2009, 05:05:25 am
Prods and -Karma if needed.You get MORE discussion with Hammer!If discussion dies and there's no deadline, it gets much deader.
Post by: Neruz on November 04, 2009, 05:37:33 am
Post by: Rashilul on November 04, 2009, 06:26:56 am
Post by: dakarian on November 04, 2009, 08:38:45 am
1. Most votes dies
2. No lynch no matter what
3. (most common I've seen) if half of the required votes is on one person, lynch.. otherwise, no lynch
So the host can end the day if the town doesn't want to. It's traditionally a bad thing since it means the town is being apathetic, which almost always brings a mafia win (especially once the kill off the active ones).
Post by: Leafsnail on November 04, 2009, 10:37:37 am
Post by: ExKirby on November 04, 2009, 12:01:47 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 04, 2009, 05:26:26 pm
I want to see hammer, I've never done it.Lynch the liar, you were there with me in SMOL!
SMOL. SMOL. I don't get it. Which one was that?
Post by: Leafsnail on November 04, 2009, 05:28:30 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 04, 2009, 05:30:04 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 04, 2009, 05:32:13 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 04, 2009, 05:50:40 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 04, 2009, 06:33:14 pm
I'd in if there was room. WatchingThere's one slot left.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 04, 2009, 06:35:35 pm
HAMMER Bros.I thought he might have this as an "in". I'll give him time. Tomorrow, though, I'm in ASAP.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 04, 2009, 06:36:22 pm
I need a 19th.
Do it. Do it now. >:[
Post by: ToonyMan on November 04, 2009, 06:42:07 pm
Wow.
That's.
Insane.
Almost.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 04, 2009, 06:43:47 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on November 04, 2009, 06:51:44 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 04, 2009, 06:53:15 pm
I think we should do a night start. With this many players, the random voting could get a little insane, especially if we do hammers. Night actions being in might give us a better idea of what happened.
I agree with that, but the only problem is that one of us won't even get a minute of play! (Worse than two hours!)
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 04, 2009, 06:53:43 pm
Post by: Org on November 04, 2009, 06:55:00 pm
Wow.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 04, 2009, 06:55:14 pm
Post by: Zai on November 04, 2009, 06:57:08 pm
I think we should do a night start. With this many players, the random voting could get a little insane, especially if we do hammers. Night actions being in might give us a better idea of what happened.
That's a terrible idea. I vote nay to this. There would be more than 1 person dead before the first day starts (there's always someone who has a NK that isn't mafia in this kind of game). Day start, damn it.
[PPEdit:] Okay. Good. I'm okay with Pandar's decision.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 04, 2009, 07:00:25 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on November 04, 2009, 07:02:07 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 04, 2009, 07:03:11 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 04, 2009, 07:03:46 pm
Traditional setups have the town with 3 mislynches before the mafia wins.
19 with 4 scum means 15 town
Assuming one mislynch and one NK per day/night cycle, that's 6 mislynches.
Expect a few third parties or SKs floating around.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 04, 2009, 07:04:53 pm
19 with 4 scum is actually VERY pro-town
Traditional setups have the town with 3 mislynches before the mafia wins.
19 with 4 scum means 15 town
Assuming one mislynch and one NK per day/night cycle, that's 6 mislynches.
Expect a few third parties or SKs floating around.
Except just a little bastardry.
It won't be a puzzle but the town, I warn you now, WILL have the potential to screw itself over.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 04, 2009, 07:05:04 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 04, 2009, 07:08:30 pm
the town, I warn you now, WILL have the potential to screw itself over.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 04, 2009, 07:10:04 pm
Huzzah!the town, I warn you now, WILL have the potential to screw itself over.
Post by: Org on November 04, 2009, 07:13:22 pm
Post by: Rashilul on November 04, 2009, 07:18:12 pm
I predict death in our future.Huzzah!the town, I warn you now, WILL have the potential to screw itself over.
Post by: SirBayer on November 04, 2009, 07:19:02 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 04, 2009, 07:54:48 pm
And there was much rejoicing.I predict death in our future.Huzzah!the town, I warn you now, WILL have the potential to screw itself over.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 04, 2009, 07:56:40 pm
I'm almost ready, and I think this is rapidly approaching "Bastard Mod" status.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 04, 2009, 08:10:16 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 04, 2009, 08:38:47 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 04, 2009, 08:48:26 pm
When a Vig could shoot a mafia, only to have the shot bussed back to himself, it's not quite so pro-town.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 04, 2009, 08:58:04 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 04, 2009, 09:13:27 pm
I guess I don't really have to declare my in-ness, since I'm already, y'know, in.Wait a minute... Why were you in at the start of the thread? Did you already send Pandar a role name?
Post by: webadict on November 04, 2009, 09:14:13 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 04, 2009, 09:15:12 pm
Post by: Rashilul on November 04, 2009, 09:25:47 pm
Let's start!I am in agreement.
Post by: Org on November 04, 2009, 09:26:44 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 04, 2009, 09:28:38 pm
BE PATIENT
Post by: Org on November 04, 2009, 09:31:54 pm
Post by: Zai on November 04, 2009, 09:37:17 pm
Ummm....can someone actually go to Lord of the Rings Mafia discussion and help out? PLEASE.
Not relevant to thread. But I've signed up for too many Mafias already. Sorry. =(
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 04, 2009, 09:37:57 pm
Post by: Org on November 04, 2009, 09:38:16 pm
Post by: Zai on November 04, 2009, 09:40:27 pm
Its not even a sign-up! Its a discussion!
I don't talk about games I don't plan on playing. Thus why I gave up on the Para Discussion thread after I quit playing Para games.
Post by: Org on November 04, 2009, 09:42:32 pm
Who would ever stop playing that?Its not even a sign-up! Its a discussion!
I don't talk about games I don't plan on playing. Thus why I gave up on the Para Discussion thread after I quit playing Para games.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 04, 2009, 10:11:20 pm
Post by: webadict on November 04, 2009, 10:12:30 pm
This will start tomorrow at 11 PM. Sounds good?Darn, I won't see it until tomorrow.
Post by: Zai on November 04, 2009, 10:13:22 pm
Wait. Do you mean 11 PM your time (Pacific, I think) or GMT?
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 04, 2009, 10:19:43 pm
(And if you don't like it, too bad.)
Post by: Zai on November 04, 2009, 10:29:35 pm
I won't be able to do anything until 10-ish PM GMT the following day (Friday) if it starts at 11 PM Pacific tomorrow, as I get to sleeping well before 1 AM (what it will be in my timezone). However, if it were to start just 4 or 5 hours earlier, I'd probably be able to post almost immediately after the game starts.
Post by: Eduren on November 04, 2009, 10:31:28 pm
11 Pacific.
(And if you don't like it, too bad.)
You get us hyped up about an awesome game then throw this a us? I call this being a Bastard Mod.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 04, 2009, 10:32:15 pm
Post by: Neruz on November 05, 2009, 02:06:44 am
:D
Post by: ExKirby on November 05, 2009, 02:39:27 am
Post by: Vector on November 05, 2009, 02:45:54 am
Post by: ExKirby on November 05, 2009, 02:57:42 am
Post by: Rashilul on November 05, 2009, 03:00:30 am
Post by: Leafsnail on November 05, 2009, 11:48:15 am
Ah well, looking forwards to the game, everyone. Wow, 19p should be intense, and the nights will be... uh... interesting.
Post by: Rashilul on November 05, 2009, 12:55:34 pm
Nightstart with nokills might not be too bad. Hmm...I predict 15 people die in the first night. The remaining three townies, all of whom have protection from night kills, must weed out the single mafia, who also has protection from night kills.
Ah well, looking forwards to the game, everyone. Wow, 19p should be intense, and the nights will be... uh... interesting.
Post by: ExKirby on November 05, 2009, 01:29:19 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on November 05, 2009, 01:56:03 pm
Nightstart with nokills might not be too bad. Hmm...I predict 15 people die in the first night. The remaining three townies, all of whom have protection from night kills, must weed out the single mafia, who also has protection from night kills.
Ah well, looking forwards to the game, everyone. Wow, 19p should be intense, and the nights will be... uh... interesting.
I predict it will all be day kills.
Post by: ExKirby on November 05, 2009, 02:02:38 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 05, 2009, 02:18:15 pm
Post by: ExKirby on November 05, 2009, 02:48:38 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 05, 2009, 02:50:00 pm
Now that would be insane.
And now I can't use it.
D:
Post by: Rashilul on November 05, 2009, 02:53:19 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on November 05, 2009, 03:24:22 pm
Post by: SirBayer on November 05, 2009, 11:56:39 pm
Post by: Rashilul on November 06, 2009, 12:14:20 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 06, 2009, 12:18:28 am
Post by: Rashilul on November 06, 2009, 12:21:12 am
Note: If I don't post I'm probably asleep.
Post by: Neruz on November 06, 2009, 12:58:32 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 06, 2009, 01:10:27 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 06, 2009, 01:53:43 am
DAY HAS BEGUN
WAIT A MINUTE IT'S HAMMER BASED LOLOL
Post by: Neruz on November 06, 2009, 01:55:05 am
Post by: Eduren on November 06, 2009, 01:55:30 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 06, 2009, 01:56:35 am
Neruz [1]: Neruz
Mephansteras [1]: Eduren
Post by: Neruz on November 06, 2009, 01:57:44 am
Fine, Unvote Me (curse you mod and your moddy powers!) and vote webadict, you know, on the principle of the matter. web is clearly far too dangerous to live.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 06, 2009, 01:58:39 am
Post by: Neruz on November 06, 2009, 01:59:31 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 03:11:07 am
Additionally, more seriously, tell me (enumerate) your favored scumbuddies and why. Limit to within game so no picking Pandarsenic.
Post by: Neruz on November 06, 2009, 04:25:34 am
I'm not sure if he's in this though.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 04:28:22 am
Post by: Mr.Person on November 06, 2009, 05:28:25 am
He is not, thankfully, as my j key is currently the one giving me trouble.
Which key, k?
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 07:57:01 am
My favorite Mafia buddy would definitely be Janus, since he was a Cabal Archmage and managed to convince Kirby to Justicar the wrong person, which was beautiful and single-handedly won us the game.
I'm not sure if he's in this though.
He is not, thankfully, as my j key is currently the one giving me trouble.
Which key, k?
Mr.Person, scum tend to at least get through the RVS before they start failing to read closely at the text. Or did someone Bus your J key with a K key?
Post by: Neruz on November 06, 2009, 08:20:15 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 06, 2009, 08:20:52 am
Yeah, I'm running Ubuntu from a disc because Vista has failed in a dramatic, blue-screen-every-time-I-start-it-ing manner.
... Yeaaah. Fuck Vista.
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 08:33:37 am
My favorite Mafia buddy would definitely be Janus, since he was a Cabal Archmage and managed to convince Kirby to Justicar the wrong person, which was beautiful and single-handedly won us the game.
Quick, everyone bandwagon Mr.Person, he was scum in the last Wizard Duel, therefore he is scum here!
Scum calling possible-scum scummy?
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 06, 2009, 11:13:41 am
Post by: ExKirby on November 06, 2009, 11:22:04 am
SirBayer? Hello?
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 06, 2009, 11:22:43 am
Post by: Mephansteras on November 06, 2009, 11:26:31 am
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 06, 2009, 12:05:43 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on November 06, 2009, 12:07:50 pm
Rolenameclame! I'm a Rook.ExKirby, why can't you move in diagonals? And how do you think Pandarsenic will make up for the lack of numbers on the mafia's side?
SirBayer? Hello?
Quote from: Chibi-Chibi-SHADOWdump
Leafsnail,desu?No, I'm not Boatlights-chan, you'll be pleased to hear.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 06, 2009, 12:14:37 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 12:21:58 pm
Rolenameclame! I'm a Rook.
SirBayer? Hello?
Rook. That smells of one of my creations.
However:
Rolefishing: Noted
Post by: Leafsnail on November 06, 2009, 12:33:50 pm
It could be RFing, but he did suggest an RNC before the game began, so it might just be a mistake.Rolenameclame! I'm a Rook.
SirBayer? Hello?
Rook. That smells of one of my creations.
However:
Rolefishing: Noted
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 12:37:23 pm
Post by: SirBayer on November 06, 2009, 12:49:02 pm
So, uh. I'll run this as best as I can, but I'm gonna warn you all now that, uh.TassadarVista has failed us.YouUbuntu must not.
Yeah, I'm running Ubuntu from a disc because Vista has failed in a dramatic, blue-screen-every-time-I-start-it-ing manner.
... Yeaaah. Fuck Vista.
So, Panda. How do you feel about Windows now, oh great braggart?
Sorry, folks. RL, not paying attention to a thread.
Did we really start or not? ._.
Post by: Leafsnail on November 06, 2009, 12:50:14 pm
Post by: ExKirby on November 06, 2009, 01:01:19 pm
SirBayer has posted, so unrandomvote.
Post by: SirBayer on November 06, 2009, 01:27:31 pm
I am, as promised, a Nuclear Rocket Surgeon.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 06, 2009, 01:29:14 pm
...So, uh. I'll run this as best as I can, but I'm gonna warn you all now that, uh.TassadarVista has failed us.YouUbuntu must not.
Yeah, I'm running Ubuntu from a disc because Vista has failed in a dramatic, blue-screen-every-time-I-start-it-ing manner.
... Yeaaah. Fuck Vista.
So, Panda. How do you feel about Windows now, oh great braggart?
Sorry, folks. RL, not paying attention to a thread.
Did we really start or not? ._.
With the magic of Google Documents, I can send you your late PM now even though I'm not at my dorm!
I was pretty sure that was going to happen to someone. Anyone else didn't receive your PM, let me know.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 06, 2009, 01:30:54 pm
You little cunt, I did send you your role PM.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 06, 2009, 02:45:22 pm
CobaltKobold:
Since we're joking around a'ready, Rashilul, are you a frog or a toad under that fedora? Isn't that a hat favored by mafia? And aren't those creatures rather close to pond scum?
Additionally, more seriously, tell me (enumerate) your favored scumbuddies and why. Limit to within game so no picking Pandarsenic.
Casual talk is casual. Scum.
Post by: Rashilul on November 06, 2009, 02:49:04 pm
I'll probably get back in 2-4 hours.
Post by: ExKirby on November 06, 2009, 02:54:24 pm
Actually, seeing as I have a power role, maybe we shouldn't for once...
Post by: ToonyMan on November 06, 2009, 02:55:47 pm
Post by: Neruz on November 06, 2009, 02:57:29 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 06, 2009, 02:59:47 pm
That makes little sense, lurking is no excuse. Except I doubt Webadict is lurking and is infact just not here right now.
Post by: Zai on November 06, 2009, 03:02:28 pm
Hey Zai, what's your take on Neruz trying to vote Pandarsenic and Pandarsenic making him vote himself?
Obviously Pandar's redirecting votes on himself to the person who voted for him.
Apostolic Nihilist. Talk or die.
[Pre-Post Edit:] Okay. What the fuck, Neruz? You haven't even given Web a chance to reply. Why so giddy to change your vote, scum? I unvote AN and vote for Neruz.
Post by: Eduren on November 06, 2009, 03:08:35 pm
Mephansteras, tell me a joke.
Busy night. I vote Vista for being a horrible piece of junk and causing the mod trouble.I guess you could call that a joke...
Post by: Neruz on November 06, 2009, 03:09:25 pm
Wait, so since Webadict isn't here I should be lynched?
That makes little sense, lurking is no excuse. Except I doubt Webadict is lurking and is infact just not here right now.
It makes perfect sense; it's no fun to lynch someone who's absent.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 06, 2009, 03:10:04 pm
Wait, so since Webadict isn't here I should be lynched?
That makes little sense, lurking is no excuse. Except I doubt Webadict is lurking and is infact just not here right now.
It makes perfect sense; it's no fun to lynch someone who's absent.
*snorty laugh*
Post by: Mephansteras on November 06, 2009, 03:11:13 pm
Sorry to hear that Pandar.Mephansteras, tell me a joke.Busy night. I vote Vista for being a horrible piece of junk and causing the mod trouble.I guess you could call that a joke...
Well, it was meant to be humorous.
Post by: Eduren on November 06, 2009, 03:25:50 pm
Post by: Zai on November 06, 2009, 03:29:32 pm
Wait, so since Webadict isn't here I should be lynched?
That makes little sense, lurking is no excuse. Except I doubt Webadict is lurking and is infact just not here right now.
It makes perfect sense; it's no fun to lynch someone who's absent.
He wouldn't be lynched. Not being here at the beginning of the game does not mean he's lurking. My vote remains on you.
Post by: Neruz on November 06, 2009, 03:36:14 pm
Wait, so since Webadict isn't here I should be lynched?
That makes little sense, lurking is no excuse. Except I doubt Webadict is lurking and is infact just not here right now.
It makes perfect sense; it's no fun to lynch someone who's absent.
*snorty laugh*
Your superior attitude tells me that i have struck Scummite!
Post by: ExKirby on November 06, 2009, 03:50:12 pm
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 06, 2009, 03:51:03 pm
*psychotic laugh*Wait, so since Webadict isn't here I should be lynched?
That makes little sense, lurking is no excuse. Except I doubt Webadict is lurking and is infact just not here right now.
It makes perfect sense; it's no fun to lynch someone who's absent.
*snorty laugh*
Your superior attitude tells me that i have struck Scummite!
Post by: ToonyMan on November 06, 2009, 03:53:00 pm
Also, this game is huge. Agh.
Post by: ExKirby on November 06, 2009, 03:55:43 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 03:59:42 pm
Fine, Unvote.
2. FOS Eduren for not finding anyone interesting to vote for after Pandar
Post by: Eduren on November 06, 2009, 04:11:22 pm
I'm guessing that with this many players that Day1 will have many people slipping under the radar. So in the interest of getting some people to post at least once, Cheetar
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 04:15:51 pm
Your last vote involved you unvoting without putting up a new attack.
Explain yourself, or we end RVS with you in the spotlight.
Post by: SirBayer on November 06, 2009, 04:18:42 pm
Fake-edit:
You little cunt, I did send you your role PM.
Venom: Correlation between starting and receiving role PMs/putting up profiles has essentially been non-existent.
Unvote in case I voted already.
Eduren, same question. What's up with the non-voting-ness?
Post by: ToonyMan on November 06, 2009, 04:19:35 pm
FAKE-EDIT:
Um? SirBayer...having a good time being scum?
Post by: Mephansteras on November 06, 2009, 04:21:17 pm
Hmm...I'm going to vote Neruz. I find your logic a bit off.
Post by: Eduren on November 06, 2009, 04:26:18 pm
Eduren, what?Woah. You said Pandar when I had voted Meph. I was making a joke.
Your last vote involved you unvoting without putting up a new attack.
Explain yourself, or we end RVS with you in the spotlight.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 06, 2009, 04:28:02 pm
Eduren, what?Unvote, Dakarian, you're not the one that says when the RVS ends, it just kind of "ends", ya know? And in any case, are you saying Eduren is scum because he won't random vote? Well, it it true he should random vote, so I'll be quiet now.
Your last vote involved you unvoting without putting up a new attack.
Explain yourself, or we end RVS with you in the spotlight.
Post by: Rashilul on November 06, 2009, 04:30:16 pm
I'll vote after digesting the rest of the stuff I missed.
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 04:40:31 pm
Meh, that explains the joke.
Though why are you so afraid of the spotlight? What's so bad about finding out more about you?
@Person
Quote from: Mr.Person link=topic=44270.msg852230#msg852230 [color=red
Unvote[/color], Dakarian, you're not the one that says when the RVS ends, it just kind of "ends", ya know? And in any case, are you saying Eduren is scum because he won't random vote? Well, it it true he should random vote, so I'll be quiet now.
RVS ends once the town has a true and full accusation. Basically, once we stop being random, RVS has ended. If I'm the first to do just that then, yes, RVS ends with me.
Now mind explaining how that looks scummy?
Pacivity noted.
Post by: Eduren on November 06, 2009, 04:45:58 pm
@EdurenAfraid of the spotlight? Where am I acting in such a way?
Meh, that explains the joke.
Though why are you so afraid of the spotlight? What's so bad about finding out more about you?
Also, you jumped so hard when all I did was FoS you. For future reference, whenever I use " :P" I am making a joke.
Post by: Rashilul on November 06, 2009, 04:47:59 pm
Sir Bayer, what was happening in the hours you were missing between posts?
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 04:48:57 pm
Casual talk is casual. Scum.Said post contained both casual and scumhunting.
Toonyman, why are you singling me when casualty could be claimed of me and several others? Furthermore why are you not randomvoting in the randomvoting stage? furthermore
Anyway, seeing as it'salmost certain, who wants to lynch meh?
Actually, seeing as I have a power role, maybe we shouldn't for once...
I really wish I could say that was scum talk, but that doesn't work on ExKirby.So, please explain why you are applying different standards to myself and others, exkirby especially as you singled him out as exceptional. And to yourself, oh laughing one. Inconsistency is not good for the town.
Eduren is being activelurkyscummy, but Rashilul has yet to answer to me, (and he's here now) so my vote's not budging yet.
I am, as promised, a Nuclear Rocket Surgeon.More rolefishing noted.
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 04:54:29 pm
[/quote]
You weren't just explaning yourself. You were scared.
"What?! No, don't get me! It was a joke, a joke!"
You sound like you're protecting something.. precious.
Post by: Rashilul on November 06, 2009, 04:58:53 pm
Since we're joking around a'ready, Rashilul, are you a frog or a toad under that fedora? Isn't that a hat favored by mafia? And aren't those creatures rather close to pond scum?What? I wear fedoras cause they're fashionable and awesome.
Additionally, more seriously, tell me (enumerate) your favored scumbuddies and why. Limit to within game so no picking Pandarsenic.I haven't really played mafia on B12. Mostly on IRC or with my friends or on other forums. Searching my name will bring up a Mafiascum game, which is the first time I played and which I am thoroughly embarrassed about.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 06, 2009, 05:02:18 pm
You sound like you're protecting something.. precious.The one ring!
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 05:07:34 pm
So look around, use what you know and can observe, and try to answer the question, please.Additionally, more seriously, tell me (enumerate) your favored scumbuddies and why. Limit to within game so no picking Pandarsenic.I haven't really played mafia on B12. Mostly on IRC or with my friends or on other forums. Searching my name will bring up a Mafiascum game, which is the first time I played and which I am thoroughly embarrassed about.
Post by: Eduren on November 06, 2009, 05:12:17 pm
Woah. You said Pandar when I had voted Meph. I was making a joke.Scared? That's what I sounded like? I was surprised. I assumed that you would be better at detecting it and once I realized you didn't, I wanted to correct you.
You weren't just explaning yourself. You were scared.
"What?! No, don't get me! It was a joke, a joke!"
You sound like you're protecting something.. precious.
Oh. Hey Cobalt. Want to tell me where I've been activelurking?
What the heck, I'll just go with my gut until I get some real suspicions.I'm assuming that he has a life...
Sir Bayer, what was happening in the hours you were missing between posts?
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 06, 2009, 05:13:18 pm
(This is just me being a jerk and not game related)
Post by: Leafsnail on November 06, 2009, 05:14:00 pm
Anyway, seeing as it'salmost certain, who wants to lynch meh?Uh, ExKirby? If you really do have a PR, you shouldn't be claiming it on day 1.
Actually, seeing as I have a power role, maybe we shouldn't for once...
Yeah, we should totally get 10 votes on ToonyMan for the mortal crime of playing the game.Wait, so since Webadict isn't here I should be lynched?
That makes little sense, lurking is no excuse. Except I doubt Webadict is lurking and is infact just not here right now.
It makes perfect sense; it's no fun to lynch someone who's absent.
Hmmm...I haven't acquainted myself with the current situation, but Dakarian seems scummy.How come, Rashilul? It's not ok just to stay out of the main arena. and take a potshot at those already under attack without adding much. Doing so is the easiest way for scum to win - all they have to do is kick people while they're down and remain safe themselves.
I'll vote after digesting the rest of the stuff I missed.
Post by: Rashilul on November 06, 2009, 05:16:05 pm
Post by: Zai on November 06, 2009, 05:19:52 pm
Ze content, it is not here!You sound like you're protecting something.. precious.The one ring!
[PPE:] Leaf, everybody has a PR. I assume ExKirby is saying that usually he's just a regular townie or scum, but for once in his life he has power and he doesn't want to share the secret.
[PPE2:] Thanks for that and many other enlightening posts, Rashilul.
It's a shame there's so many people; it's hard to keep track of everyone and remain sure of your vote.
Post by: webadict on November 06, 2009, 05:21:55 pm
Busy night. I vote Vista for being a horrible piece of junk and causing the mod trouble.L.
O.Sorry to hear that Pandar.Mephansteras, tell me a joke.Busy night. I vote Vista for being a horrible piece of junk and causing the mod trouble.I guess you could call that a joke...
Well, it was meant to be humorous.
Unvote.L.
Hmm...I'm going to vote Neruz. I find your logic a bit off.
Mephansteras. For always being scum. He's scum again as well.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 06, 2009, 05:26:07 pm
Everyone plays different. I find you higher-up in the skill department so I take care in reading your posts. There are a few individuals however that I cannot for the live of me tell if they are town or scum. Like ExKirby. I would lynch him every mafia if I had the chance, but that's not possible.
I forget if I voted someone in this mafia, three just started and I'm losing track, hold on.
I appear to have not. Alright. Then...I will vote dakarian. You are very different this game and I find one post quite interesting...
@Eduren
Meh, that explains the joke.
Though why are you so afraid of the spotlight? What's so bad about finding out more about you?
While this may just be something else, this looks like it's OK to know about someone else, like the mafia would want to know if he was a good target or not.
FAKE-EDIT:
Yeah, Meph too. Although there is a lot of people in this...
Post by: Zai on November 06, 2009, 05:35:41 pm
Dakarian - Just...off.
Meph - No force or drive; little explanation. Also off.
Neruz - Bad logic; defends said logic. Can't tell if off or not due to never playing with before
Possibly scum:
Rashilul - Little or no participation
SHAD0Wdump - Lack of content
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 05:38:23 pm
Scared? That's what I sounded like? I was surprised. I assumed that you would be better at detecting it and once I realized you didn't, I wanted to correct you.Gladly.
Oh. Hey Cobalt. Want to tell me where I've been activelurking?
Mephansteras, tell me a joke.Randomvote, meh pressure value though.
Sorry to hear that Pandar.no contentMephansteras, tell me a joke.Busy night. I vote Vista for being a horrible piece of junk and causing the mod trouble.I guess you could call that a joke...
Fine, Unvote.no content (semijustifiable, if it was to delurk meph. But otherwise no, as he didn't get anything really)
2. FOS Eduren for not finding anyone interesting to vote for after Pandar
FoS Dakarian for reading comprehension :PLessee: OMGUS FOS, a little more content because he's being called on no content. Still, low ratio, needs prodding to provide. And that's all your posts
I'm guessing that with this many players that Day1 will have many people slipping under the radar. So in the interest of getting some people to post at least once, Cheetar
@Toonyman
Everyone plays different. Some people may have higher/lower humour baselines than others. Also, as far as I know, there's no penalty for an extraneous unvote.
@Zai: "possibly" and "preliminary" are both in the weasel word category, possibly much more than preliminary. What's the separation of these groups (i.e. which one do you think scummier) and why?
crap my a key is starting to flake too. *goes back and adds them in*
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 05:39:32 pm
Mephansteras. For always being scum. He's scum again as well., as I forgot to fix once "Warning- others posted" came up.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 06, 2009, 05:39:54 pm
D:
Post by: Zai on November 06, 2009, 05:44:56 pm
@Zai: "possibly" and "preliminary" are both in the weasel word category, possibly much more than preliminary. What's the separation of these groups (i.e. which one do you think scummier) and why?
Sorry. They're both "preliminary". The first is who I think is scum. The second is who I think may be scum.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 06, 2009, 05:54:02 pm
SHAD0Wdump - Lack of contentQuite.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 06, 2009, 05:56:55 pm
SHAD0Wdump - Lack of contentQuite.
Great. Fine. Unvote. dakarian for later.
What the hell SHAD0Wdump?
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 06, 2009, 05:58:27 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 06, 2009, 05:59:01 pm
Can't say, easily.SHAD0Wdump - Lack of contentQuite.
Great. Fine. Unvote. dakarian for later.
What the hell SHAD0Wdump?
Post by: ToonyMan on November 06, 2009, 06:00:46 pm
Suspicions?
Post by: Mephansteras on November 06, 2009, 06:04:05 pm
Can't say, easily.SHAD0Wdump - Lack of contentQuite.
Great. Fine. Unvote. dakarian for later.
What the hell SHAD0Wdump?
That's not very helpful, Shadow. Why can't you say? Even if it's as simple as "something is bothering me about him" it's better then nothing.
Unvote.
SHADOWDUMP. I want you to talk a bit more. Explain things for us. Right now you're being evasive, and that's suspicious.
Nice to see you Web, although you're wrong about me this game. I had a scummy phase but that seems to have passed. Who else are you pegging as scum this game?
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 06, 2009, 06:08:21 pm
Why can't you say?Very few words.
Post by: Zai on November 06, 2009, 06:11:22 pm
Convenient.Why can't you say?Very few words.
Do it over multiple posts, then.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 06, 2009, 06:13:08 pm
Why can't you say?Very few words.
Alright, SHAD0Wdump.
This might be a word restriction he has, I'm not role-fishing for it. This sucks for Town if it's true though.
Convenient.Why can't you say?Very few words.
Do it over multiple posts, then.
Hee, yeah...
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 06, 2009, 06:14:29 pm
Need other speak.Convenient.Why can't you say?Very few words.
Do it over multiple posts, then.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 06, 2009, 06:16:49 pm
It's probably three words. This could all be a lie be lurking scum, but eh. Back to dakarian for previous reasons.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 06:21:20 pm
hyphens and compounds?Need other speak.Convenient.Why can't you say?Very few words.
Do it over multiple posts, then.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 06, 2009, 06:22:44 pm
All right, unvote. It's annoying, but not worth lynching over at this point.
Back to pressuring Neruz.
Post by: Zai on November 06, 2009, 06:29:06 pm
Mmm, he might get mod-killed if he abuses things too much.
I personally am okay with that. It's not like he'll be much help anyway with such a word restriction. He needs to try whatever he can to be helpful. I like that hyphens/compound idea if it's by word and not by syllable.
Post by: webadict on November 06, 2009, 06:29:40 pm
Hmmm...Can't say, easily.SHAD0Wdump - Lack of contentQuite.
Great. Fine. Unvote. dakarian for later.
What the hell SHAD0Wdump?
That's not very helpful, Shadow. Why can't you say? Even if it's as simple as "something is bothering me about him" it's better then nothing.
Unvote.
SHADOWDUMP. I want you to talk a bit more. Explain things for us. Right now you're being evasive, and that's suspicious.
Nice to see you Web, although you're wrong about me this game. I had a scummy phase but that seems to have passed. Who else are you pegging as scum this game?
We'll see. Unvote.
Oh, and I dunno...
SirBayer is pretty scummy, I suppose.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 06, 2009, 06:30:32 pm
It's not like he'll be much help anyway with such a word restriction.Just wait.
Post by: Zai on November 06, 2009, 06:33:45 pm
For what?It's not like he'll be much help anyway with such a word restriction.Just wait.
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 06:34:12 pm
I appear to have not. Alright. Then...I will vote dakarian. You are very different this game and I find one post quite interesting...@Eduren
Meh, that explains the joke.
Though why are you so afraid of the spotlight? What's so bad about finding out more about you?
While this may just be something else, this looks like it's OK to know about someone else, like the mafia would want to know if he was a good target or not.
Smells like you aren't randoming anymore. Very well.
To get a good read on people, you need to understand their personality, their drive, their motive. You can then compared what they claim to be doing to what they are doing to see if they match up. Since scum motives are "survive the day" and "kill those townies" then they CAN'T match up to whatever they show us here.
The issue with Eduren, I struck hard at him unexpectedly. His response equated to concern over his own life. It was RVS AND he had a good reason for his vote (given RVS standards). Confident Townie would've just stated the truth. Bloodthirsty ones would think I was trying for an early lynch.
Instead.. "oh noes, I'm joking, JOKING!"
Shock.. awe.. fear.. the first response was to save your hide, Eduren.
Self Preservation, a nice, strong scumtell.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 06, 2009, 06:36:27 pm
No impediment tomorrow.For what?It's not like he'll be much help anyway with such a word restriction.Just wait.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 06, 2009, 06:36:56 pm
I can agree with that, but I see scum trying to get a lynch on someone who always acts scummy.
Post by: Zai on November 06, 2009, 06:37:26 pm
I appear to have not. Alright. Then...I will vote dakarian. You are very different this game and I find one post quite interesting...@Eduren
Meh, that explains the joke.
Though why are you so afraid of the spotlight? What's so bad about finding out more about you?
While this may just be something else, this looks like it's OK to know about someone else, like the mafia would want to know if he was a good target or not.
Smells like you aren't randoming anymore. Very well.
To get a good read on people, you need to understand their personality, their drive, their motive. You can then compared what they claim to be doing to what they are doing to see if they match up. Since scum motives are "survive the day" and "kill those townies" then they CAN'T match up to whatever they show us here.
The issue with Eduren, I struck hard at him unexpectedly. His response equated to concern over his own life. It was RVS AND he had a good reason for his vote (given RVS standards). Confident Townie would've just stated the truth. Bloodthirsty ones would think I was trying for an early lynch.
Instead.. "oh noes, I'm joking, JOKING!"
Shock.. awe.. fear.. the first response was to save your hide, Eduren.
Self Preservation, a nice, strong scumtell.
You are a very persuasive man, my good friend.
[PPE:] As in, in-game tomorrow (Day 2) or real life tomorrow (Saturday?), SHAD0W?
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 06, 2009, 06:40:16 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 06:42:22 pm
...ugh, zai. ugh.Mmm, he might get mod-killed if he abuses things too much.I personally am okay with that.
PPE:...Five replies have been posted, yikes. Good to her...her...hera...hear that you're going to be able to post fine tomorrow,SD, whiche'er tomorrow it is.
ugh. test bcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz. A is being bd. bd. bad. *updtes profile*
PPE2: Oll Korrect.
Post by: Zai on November 06, 2009, 06:44:48 pm
...ugh, zai. ugh.Mmm, he might get mod-killed if he abuses things too much.I personally am okay with that.
PPE:...Five replies have been posted, yikes. Good to her...her...hera...hear that you're going to be able to post fine tomorrow,SD, whiche'er tomorrow it is.
ugh. test bcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz. A is being bd. bd. bad. *updtes profile*
PPE2: Oll Korrect.
...Er...what?
Post by: ToonyMan on November 06, 2009, 06:45:36 pm
Post by: Zai on November 06, 2009, 06:46:16 pm
He's a robot.
Is what I'm thinking.
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 06:46:31 pm
I don't remember his meta well enough. Are you saying he's always trying to save his own self?
@Zai
Buddying noted
Post by: ToonyMan on November 06, 2009, 06:48:32 pm
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 06, 2009, 06:49:56 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 06:50:41 pm
1. see signature: keys on keyboard (laptop, so my PS/2 spares are no use) intermittently malfunctioning. 'A' is now included in that list. (It's longer but those two re the worst.)...ugh, zai. ugh.Mmm, he might get mod-killed if he abuses things too much.I personally am okay with that.
PPE: Pre-post edit.
PPE:...Five replies have been posted, yikes. Good to her...her...hera...hear that you're going to be able to post fine tomorrow,SD, whiche'er tomorrow it is.
ugh. test bcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz. A is being bd. bd. bad. *updtes profile*
PPE2: Oll Korrect.
...Er...what?
2. Oll Korrect is what OK stands for.
So don't blame me if I miss n a somewhere. It's annoying to spot them, nd you know how good(:bad) spell checkers re at finding that sort of thing.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 06, 2009, 06:53:03 pm
So don't blame me if I miss an a somewhere. It's annoying to spot them, and you know how good(:bad) spell checkers are at finding that sort of thing.
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 06:53:20 pm
From what I've seen. Eduren don't give jack shit about defending himself, atleast Town. Hmmm....
And with that, I am officially done with my RVS.
Eduren, last time i made an early attack like that the person turned out to be scum. Did I just do it again?
Post by: Zai on November 06, 2009, 06:54:47 pm
@Zai
Buddying noted
lulul. I was just commenting in general, not just this game. You just brought it up again by being persuasive. If you read the scum chat for Bay12 Mafia, you'll see that I said that you had convinced me (as scum) that Boksi (not scum), Diakron (scum), and Josh (scum) were the remaining scum. As I say, persuasive guy you are.
[PPE:] (Ohoho) PPE is Pre-Post Edit, SHAD0W. I got tired of always typing it out the whole way recently, so I started abbreviating it.
[PPE2:] Kay, Cobalt (how do you like your name shortened? CK, Cobalt, or Kobold?)?
Post by: Leafsnail on November 06, 2009, 06:56:42 pm
Post by: webadict on November 06, 2009, 06:58:38 pm
Scummy.From what I've seen. Eduren don't give jack shit about defending himself, atleast Town. Hmmm....
And with that, I am officially done with my RVS.
Eduren, last time i made an early attack like that the person turned out to be scum. Did I just do it again?
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 06, 2009, 07:00:58 pm
Scummy.One word explanation!
Post by: Zai on November 06, 2009, 07:01:33 pm
There was no explanation.Scummy.One word explanation!
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 07:02:38 pm
Post by: webadict on November 06, 2009, 07:02:49 pm
It was a generalization, I suppose!There was no explanation.Scummy.One word explanation!
Post by: Zai on November 06, 2009, 07:03:35 pm
He may have meant accusation.It was a generalization, I suppose!There was no explanation.Scummy.One word explanation!
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 06, 2009, 07:06:07 pm
I think tht's wht he's trying to point out.Exactly!
Webadict
Post by: ToonyMan on November 06, 2009, 07:08:59 pm
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 06, 2009, 07:09:44 pm
SHAD0Wdump is scum hunting with three words, classy.Hell yeah!
Post by: webadict on November 06, 2009, 07:13:05 pm
SHAD0Wdump is scum hunting with three words, classy.Technically, the last post was two words...
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 07:16:18 pm
SHAD0Wdump is scum hunting with three words, classy.Buddying?
Probably the best of workarounds for him is if he were allowed to selectively quote, and someone posted something he could use to communicte effecti'ely.
Also. "exactly web addict" is three words. I wonder if compound names(CobaltKobold, Apostolic Nihilist, SHAD0Wdump) count s two words.
Oh, I think I saw and forgot to address the shortening question of Zi. Zi. Zai. CK, Cobalt, Kobold, CoKo re all fine.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 06, 2009, 07:17:43 pm
Like that one guy I know...
Post by: Mr.Person on November 06, 2009, 07:18:36 pm
Hmmm...Can't say, easily.SHAD0Wdump - Lack of contentQuite.
Great. Fine. Unvote. dakarian for later.
What the hell SHAD0Wdump?
That's not very helpful, Shadow. Why can't you say? Even if it's as simple as "something is bothering me about him" it's better then nothing.
Unvote.
SHADOWDUMP. I want you to talk a bit more. Explain things for us. Right now you're being evasive, and that's suspicious.
Nice to see you Web, although you're wrong about me this game. I had a scummy phase but that seems to have passed. Who else are you pegging as scum this game?
We'll see. Unvote.
Oh, and I dunno...
SirBayer is pretty scummy, I suppose.
This is strange behavior for you, Webadict. Random voting? Not having a big list of scum printed out? You keep changing who you're focusing on? Something's off with Webadict, I can tell you that for sure. Webadict, who is the scum?
Mmm, he might get mod-killed if he abuses things too much.
All right, unvote. It's annoying, but not worth lynching over at this point.
Back to pressuring Neruz.
You voted SHAD0Wdump because he was being passive, and yet you unvote him despite the fact he's still passive? Why? He can still state suspiscions with 3 words. He may not be able to post WoT's, but that doesn't mean you should ignore him. Why did you unvote SHAD0Wdump?
Unvote.
It's probably three words. This could all be a lie be lurking scum, but eh. Back to dakarian for previous reasons.
Delicious WIFOM? Unvote with no explanation? Really stupid reasoning on Dakarian? What's wrong with you, ToonyMan? Why did you unvote SHAD0Wdump?
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 07:21:07 pm
Quote from: webadict link=topic=44270.msg852651#msg852651
It was a generalization, I suppose!
[/quote
It was a generalization, I suppose!
[/quote
Passiveness.. from Webadict!?
Unpossible
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 06, 2009, 07:22:49 pm
You voted SHAD0Wdump because he was being passive, and yet you unvote him despite the fact he's still passive? Why? He can still state suspiscions with 3 words. He may not be able to post WoT's, but that doesn't mean you should ignore him. Why did you unvote SHAD0Wdump?You hate me.
Why did you unvote SHAD0Wdump?
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 07:25:46 pm
That's not him saying "You should vote shadow. he's scummy"
It's "Meph claimed to have a good reason to vote for you then unvoted even though that 'reason' still exists.. THAT is scummy"
His attack is on Meph and is just using you as evidence.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 06, 2009, 07:26:22 pm
I UNVOTED SHAD0WDUMP BECAUSE HE IS TOWN. I VOTED DAKARIAN BECAUSE HE IS SCUM. DON'T YOU DARE BRO.
WHY ARE MY ALLEGATIONS WEAK MR. BRO?!
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 06, 2009, 07:28:54 pm
@shadowOh,ok. Sorry.
That's not him saying "You should vote shadow. he's scummy"
It's "Meph claimed to have a good reason to vote for you then unvoted even though that 'reason' still exists.. THAT is scummy"
His attack is on Meph and is just using you as evidence.
Post by: Zai on November 06, 2009, 07:29:39 pm
At least one of Web and M.P is scum.
I unvote Neruz. Meph is fo' sho' scum~
Post by: Mephansteras on November 06, 2009, 07:30:58 pm
Mmm, he might get mod-killed if he abuses things too much.
All right, unvote. It's annoying, but not worth lynching over at this point.
Back to pressuring Neruz.
You voted SHAD0Wdump because he was being passive, and yet you unvote him despite the fact he's still passive? Why? He can still state suspiscions with 3 words. He may not be able to post WoT's, but that doesn't mean you should ignore him. Why did you unvote SHAD0Wdump?
Simple, he said that he wouldn't have the 3 word restriction tomorrow. I'd rather pressure him then, when I can get better answers out of him, then deal with the frustration of quizzing him when has a 3 word per post limit for today. He's still on my list of suspects, but I'd rather focus on other people for today.
Post by: Neruz on November 06, 2009, 07:34:48 pm
No re-vote for now. Meph and web have drawn my attention at the moment, but not enough to vote them yet.
Post by: webadict on November 06, 2009, 07:42:29 pm
Quote from: webadict link=topic=44270.msg852651#msg852651
It was a generalization, I suppose!
[/quotelolololol.
Passiveness.. from Webadict!?
Unpossible
You're funny to avoid an actual OMGUS. That, in itself, is scummy.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 06, 2009, 07:45:52 pm
I will unvote my previous random vote.
No re-vote for now. Meph and web have drawn my attention at the moment, but not enough to vote them yet.
You bounced your vote around a lot earlier. Why? And why unvote Toonyman when you had indicated that you though he was scum earlier?
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 07:47:55 pm
fixing this messlolololol.It was a generalization, I suppose!Passiveness.. from Webadict!?
Unpossible
You're funny to avoid an actual OMGUS. That, in itself, is scummy.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 07:48:17 pm
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 06, 2009, 07:49:06 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on November 06, 2009, 07:49:48 pm
NOTHING. I AM INNOCENT BRO. DON'T TAZ ME BRO.
I UNVOTED SHAD0WDUMP BECAUSE HE IS TOWN. I VOTED DAKARIAN BECAUSE HE IS SCUM. DON'T YOU DARE BRO.
WHY ARE MY ALLEGATIONS WEAK MR. BRO?!
I'll leave you and your terrible alligations for Dakarian to deal with. Unvote.
Addendum to my preliminary list of scum:
At least one of Web and M.P is scum.
I unvote Neruz. Meph is fo' sho' scum~
No Zai, you cannot leave empty attacks like that without expecting me to ask why you think that.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 07:52:56 pm
Where's the content?hope you're allowed contractions like "where is"
furthermore see my above post fixing the quote tags. Tht my help confusion-related accusations of content lack, but not fctul. factual.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 06, 2009, 07:55:02 pm
furthermore see my above post fixing the quote tags. Tht my help confusion-related accusations of content lack, but not fctul. factual.Damn tags...
Sorry.
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 07:59:32 pm
lolololol.
You're funny to avoid an actual OMGUS. That, in itself, is scummy.
Weak derail is weak.
Now stop protecting Eduren. He's who I'm after now.
Or, at least, come up with something real instead of a vague non-accusation.
Post by: Zai on November 06, 2009, 08:09:27 pm
No Zai, you cannot leave empty attacks like that without expecting me to ask why you think that.
He's off his rocker.
But anyway. Unvote Meph. His explanation is enough for me.
In a game this big, I think we should pay just a little more attention to those who have yet to post. And to this end, I vote Apostolic Nihilist.
Post by: Org on November 06, 2009, 08:10:13 pm
So, hi. Just checkin up after watching 4 hrs of firefly.
Post by: Zai on November 06, 2009, 08:10:56 pm
Hey everyone. I am mega awesome^10000000
So, hi. Just checkin up after watching 4 hrs of firefly.
Read up and post content. Or lynchee lynchee goes the Org.
Post by: Neruz on November 06, 2009, 08:11:16 pm
I will unvote my previous random vote.
No re-vote for now. Meph and web have drawn my attention at the moment, but not enough to vote them yet.
You bounced your vote around a lot earlier. Why? And why unvote Toonyman when you had indicated that you though he was scum earlier?
Because i was bored and random voting and entirely unserious the entire time.
This is my first serious action.
Post by: webadict on November 06, 2009, 08:13:19 pm
Want something real?
lolololol.
You're funny to avoid an actual OMGUS. That, in itself, is scummy.
Weak derail is weak.
Now stop protecting Eduren. He's who I'm after now.
Or, at least, come up with something real instead of a vague non-accusation.
dakarian. That's something real, you stupid moron.
That's a vote. You're passive and unemotional.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 06, 2009, 08:14:59 pm
No Zai, you cannot leave empty attacks like that without expecting me to ask why you think that.
He's off his rocker.
But anyway. Unvote Meph. His explanation is enough for me.
In a game this big, I think we should pay just a little more attention to those who have yet to post. And to this end, I vote Apostolic Nihilist.
Deflection. You're scum.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 06, 2009, 08:18:30 pm
I will unvote my previous random vote.
No re-vote for now. Meph and web have drawn my attention at the moment, but not enough to vote them yet.
You bounced your vote around a lot earlier. Why? And why unvote Toonyman when you had indicated that you though he was scum earlier?
Because i was bored and random voting and entirely unserious the entire time.
This is my first serious action.
Hmmm. All right. So far you've fingered web and I as scum. Who else are you looking at? Why?
Post by: webadict on November 06, 2009, 08:20:37 pm
WHY ARE YOU SO SCUMMY?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!I will unvote my previous random vote.
No re-vote for now. Meph and web have drawn my attention at the moment, but not enough to vote them yet.
You bounced your vote around a lot earlier. Why? And why unvote Toonyman when you had indicated that you though he was scum earlier?
Because i was bored and random voting and entirely unserious the entire time.
This is my first serious action.
Hmmm. All right. So far you've fingered web and I as scum. Who else are you looking at? Why?
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 08:22:38 pm
This was one of the better ones, I think. Shook a lot of folks up and provided a lot of targets to aim for.
Honestly, I'd consider anyone who doesn't have SOMEONE they question highly suspect at this point.. or lurking :P.
Fakeedit:
Insults just show you to be emotional. That means you're either losing control of yourself as scum, or easy to control as town. You were in Bay 12. Turning on Jerk Mode just gets townies killed.
It took me FOSing and prodding you to FINALLY get something real out of you. That's not a good sign.
I didn't put much stock towards your vote because you had nothing to attack. "Scummy!" is vague and senseless and your anti-OMGUS claim is new and untested, and doesn't work well when it just catches someone who's questioning others while focused on a real threat. You should've seen that I'm pushing Eduren and he's not done my questions yet. You're acting ugly but not enough to make me give up on Eduren to hunt you. I'd rather you keep speaking so I can read you better.
Unemotional: null tell. I don't consider one vote with little content more than a RV.
A real attack, but it took a good few prods to get it out of you. Noted.
Insulting, but that's your personality.
Post by: Zai on November 06, 2009, 08:24:16 pm
No Zai, you cannot leave empty attacks like that without expecting me to ask why you think that.
He's off his rocker.
But anyway. Unvote Meph. His explanation is enough for me.
In a game this big, I think we should pay just a little more attention to those who have yet to post. And to this end, I vote Apostolic Nihilist.
Deflection. You're scum.
Oh, of course I am for trying to get back on track here. ::)
Anyway. Unvote AN. I vote Meph. He's doing his question crap.
Post by: Neruz on November 06, 2009, 08:25:00 pm
I will unvote my previous random vote.
No re-vote for now. Meph and web have drawn my attention at the moment, but not enough to vote them yet.
You bounced your vote around a lot earlier. Why? And why unvote Toonyman when you had indicated that you though he was scum earlier?
Because i was bored and random voting and entirely unserious the entire time.
This is my first serious action.
Hmmm. All right. So far you've fingered web and I as scum. Who else are you looking at? Why?
My finger is being attracted to Mr.Person a leetle bit, if only because it seems like he's teetering on the edge of the same overaggressiveness he showed in the 2nd Wizard Duel, and he was scum then too. Not much to go on, which is why i still havn't voted.
Post by: webadict on November 06, 2009, 08:25:57 pm
People truly underestimate RVS.Duh, saying nothing important: noted.
This was one of the better ones, I think. Shook a lot of folks up and provided a lot of targets to aim for.
Honestly, I'd consider anyone who doesn't have SOMEONE they question highly suspect at this point.. or lurking :P.
Fakeedit:
Insults just show you to be emotional. That means you're either losing control of yourself as scum, or easy to control as town. You were in Bay 12. Turning on Jerk Mode just gets townies killed.
It took me FOSing and prodding you to FINALLY get something real out of you. That's not a good sign.
I didn't put much stock towards your vote because you had nothing to attack. "Scummy!" is vague and senseless and your anti-OMGUS claim is new and untested, and doesn't work well when it just catches someone who's questioning others while focused on a real threat. You should've seen that I'm pushing Eduren and he's not done my questions yet. You're acting ugly but not enough to make me give up on Eduren to hunt you. I'd rather you keep speaking so I can read you better.
Unemotional: null tell. I don't consider one vote with little content more than a RV.
A real attack, but it took a good few prods to get it out of you. Noted.
Insulting, but that's your personality.
It took you're talking a lot to make me think you're scum. Big difference.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 06, 2009, 08:29:44 pm
No Zai, you cannot leave empty attacks like that without expecting me to ask why you think that.
He's off his rocker.
But anyway. Unvote Meph. His explanation is enough for me.
In a game this big, I think we should pay just a little more attention to those who have yet to post. And to this end, I vote Apostolic Nihilist.
Deflection. You're scum.
Oh, of course I am for trying to get back on track here. ::)
Anyway. Unvote AN. I vote Meph. He's doing his question crap.
You never answered my original question.
Post by: Zai on November 06, 2009, 08:33:33 pm
Also. I find it funny how everybody is going after their own individual people and ignoring everyone else.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 06, 2009, 08:35:07 pm
Duh, saying nothing important: noted.Dakarian made sense.
It took you're talking a lot to make me think you're scum. Big difference.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 06, 2009, 08:35:16 pm
No Zai, you cannot leave empty attacks like that without expecting me to ask why you think that.
He's off his rocker.
But anyway. Unvote Meph. His explanation is enough for me.
In a game this big, I think we should pay just a little more attention to those who have yet to post. And to this end, I vote Apostolic Nihilist.
Deflection. You're scum.
Oh, of course I am for trying to get back on track here. ::)
Anyway. Unvote AN. I vote Meph. He's doing his question crap.
I'm pushing Neruz, because I'm not convinced that he's town. My vote is still on him and all my questions have been to him.
And, no, I'm not ignoring everyone else. I'm pushing Neruz, yes, but I'm watching what everyone else is doing.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 06, 2009, 08:36:40 pm
And the question was?
Also. I find it funny how everybody is going after their own individual people and ignoring everyone else.
You think either me or Web is scum. That's a very, very scummy thing to say, and it's even worse that you didn't explain why you think that. So please, tell us.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 08:41:56 pm
flipNo Zai, you cannot leave empty attacks like that without expecting me to ask why you think that.
He's off his rocker.
But anyway. Unvote Meph. His explanation is enough for me.
In a game this big, I think we should pay just a little more attention to those who have yet to post. And to this end, I vote Apostolic Nihilist.
Oh, of course I am for trying to get back on track here. ::)flop
Anyway. Unvote AN. I vote Meph. He's doing his question crap.
Vector and AN have yet to show up...and both have last-actives 8 hours prior to gamestart. I hope to see something from them soon. I'm getting tired, though.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2009, 08:57:05 pm
I also find this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 08:59:34 pm
Scummy.
Between THAT post, and This (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg852801#msg852801) post is me having to prod you into actually making an argument.
So between then you were just speaking random words and phrases?
Post by: webadict on November 06, 2009, 09:02:25 pm
He made sense, but only in a way as to appear town. He doesn't care otherwise.Duh, saying nothing important: noted.Dakarian made sense.
It took you're talking a lot to make me think you're scum. Big difference.
@webNo, but I'm still a little confused here.Scummy.
Between THAT post, and This (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg852801#msg852801) post is me having to prod you into actually making an argument.
So between then you were just speaking random words and phrases?
Who are you voting for and why?
Also, what do you think about Mephansteras?
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 09:03:15 pm
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 06, 2009, 09:07:09 pm
He made sense, but only in a way as to appear town. He doesn't care otherwise.Merely an assumption.
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 09:12:18 pm
No, but I'm still a little confused here.
Who are you voting for and why?
Also, what do you think about Mephansteras?
I'm voting for Eduren. A quick prod has proven that he's heavy into Self Preservation. When I push you, you get bloodthirsty, though your method is rather meh. When I pushed him, even when he had a good reason, he backed down and said 'I was joking'.
Toonyman confirmed that, although Eduren can seem scummy when he's not, trying to save his own self is NOT a part of it. Thus his actions can't be acused by meta or traditional means.
Thus why I'm getting serious about him.
As for Meph...I noticed he's getting pushed hard. I'll have to do an analysis on him.
Thus why I like the way that RVS went. We've barely left it and I can already do an analysis on players ;D.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 06, 2009, 09:18:14 pm
Not that he's doing it on purpose, I don't think he is.
Post by: Neruz on November 06, 2009, 09:30:41 pm
I'll have to go back over it with a fine toofed comb, but for now Eduren gets my vote.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 06, 2009, 09:36:16 pm
Whoah, I didn't know this had actually started. I just looked at the title and assumed we were still waiting. Anyway, Meph is putting out a few questions, which as I have seen in previous mafias e.g. B12 mafia, Meph asking questions is his scum tell.
I also find this:A bit strange, as he dosen't explain in which post or how his logic is off. He unvoted later and voted Shadow for having very little words in his posts, which seemed to me an obvious role restriction. He then went back to 'pressuring Neruz', with little explanation. He also hasn't really explained himself well, and hasn't posted as much as other people have.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Well, you're right, that vote didn't have any explanation behind it. I was busy at work and didn't have time for much. However, I did explain myself more later after I switched back from shadow after he explained himself. Neruz was bouncing all over the place with little or strange reasons for the votes. Hence my comment that his logic was suspect. It's also why I've been pressuring him.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2009, 09:36:48 pm
Eduren does seem to have overreacted pretty seriously. His posts hadn't really registered with me when i scanned the thread.Eduren overreacted? Where?
I'll have to go back over it with a fine toofed comb, but for now Eduren gets my vote.
Post by: webadict on November 06, 2009, 09:40:08 pm
Oh eduren is like that a lot. Which is funny because that's exactly what meta means. You seem to forget that meta is for both scum AND town tells.No, but I'm still a little confused here.
Who are you voting for and why?
Also, what do you think about Mephansteras?
I'm voting for Eduren. A quick prod has proven that he's heavy into Self Preservation. When I push you, you get bloodthirsty, though your method is rather meh. When I pushed him, even when he had a good reason, he backed down and said 'I was joking'.
Toonyman confirmed that, although Eduren can seem scummy when he's not, trying to save his own self is NOT a part of it. Thus his actions can't be acused by meta or traditional means.
Thus why I'm getting serious about him.
As for Meph...I noticed he's getting pushed hard. I'll have to do an analysis on him.
Thus why I like the way that RVS went. We've barely left it and I can already do an analysis on players ;D.
My problem with you is that you're not how you normally are, and you push me off by saying that just because you're not how you are doesn't mean you're scum. Sure, that could be true, but I really doubt it. Null tell this and null tell that. You of all people know that finding scum isn't all about tells. There's a certain amount of lying that goes on as scum, and that's what you are.
YOU.
ARE.
A.
LIAR.
I'm fairly certain that your pants would be on fire. You give off scumtells just like everyone else, but oh no, those can be explained and these can be explained. So, why not give people something? Or are you just going to subtlely hint at my scumminess as you've done so far. Go for weaklings and then once you've injected enough larvae into a stronger one they can all hatch and consume him from the inside. Nah, we're going to play this in a way that doesn't involve you doing that.
K, Patches?
That's why I'm voting you. If you're town, which is incredibly unlikely, you're simply sowing seeds of distrust throughout the entire town. If you're scum, you're being very obvious.
To me. I truly haven't gleaned how the others find scum without power roles.
You seemed busy. I'll push you later for info.Whoah, I didn't know this had actually started. I just looked at the title and assumed we were still waiting. Anyway, Meph is putting out a few questions, which as I have seen in previous mafias e.g. B12 mafia, Meph asking questions is his scum tell.
I also find this:A bit strange, as he dosen't explain in which post or how his logic is off. He unvoted later and voted Shadow for having very little words in his posts, which seemed to me an obvious role restriction. He then went back to 'pressuring Neruz', with little explanation. He also hasn't really explained himself well, and hasn't posted as much as other people have.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Well, you're right, that vote didn't have any explanation behind it. I was busy at work and didn't have time for much. However, I did explain myself more later after I switched back from shadow after he explained himself. Neruz was bouncing all over the place with little or strange reasons for the votes. Hence my comment that his logic was suspect. It's also why I've been pressuring him.
Post by: Vector on November 06, 2009, 09:53:36 pm
I'll be back.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 06, 2009, 09:55:55 pm
To me. I truly haven't gleaned how the others find scum without power roles.High and Mighty.
Post by: webadict on November 06, 2009, 10:06:52 pm
Wouldn't have to be if you did something, Mister Three Words.To me. I truly haven't gleaned how the others find scum without power roles.High and Mighty.
Post something more than three words and we'll talk.
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 10:08:58 pm
I don't know Eduren's meta. Meanwhile, Toony disagrees: he says that self preservation ISN'T part of his meta. That's why I'm on him. I'll take your idea that he DOES act like this normally into consideration, but I want to hear more from him before I leave him alone.
I pushed you off because you didn't explain yourself, just cried out "SCUMMY!" I started actually talking to you once you brought up actual arguments.
Where did you get me saying that I don't have scumtells? I have reasons for what I do because..well.. I DO HAVE REASONS. When you ask or accuse me about them I will give those reasons. If they seem to fit ever so nicely into a package then there you go. Hate me for it or love me for it, but that's what I do.
You claim I'm lying... on what? That I'm not acting like myself? That you don't believe my arguments?
I suspect you. Yes, I DO suspect you. As such I'll push you. I don't have a second vote so a FOS will do: since it's brought this result I'm glad I left it like that, since Eduren needs a LOT more pressure than you do. Do I want you dead? No, not yet. I make THAT time very very clear and you aren't there yet. Your emotions provide a very nice shield so it's hard to crack you, whether you are town or scum. I want to say you cracked but if so you won't be readable till later. For now, I'll need to be content where you are.
As it is, I can tell you didn't really analyze me very well. How? You didn't know who I was voting for, even though the posts just before our little argument was all about Eduren and my vote hasn't wavered from him for a while. It's noteworthy, that's for sure.
You want to disrupt me. Sorry, I won't be disrupted. Tried it, saw a town die by it. I'll stick to what I do, thank you very much.
Spoiler: As for Meph, Just did an anyl: (click to show/hide)
!
I don't get the attacks on him, except for the first vote and his reasons for it. His actions towards Shadow seem solid. His push on Nurez looks like a regular scumhunt. If he's scum, he's going to need a good deal more pressure if you want something to actually go off of. For now his nose is cleaner than most.
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 10:09:38 pm
Wouldn't have to be if you did something, Mister Three Words.To me. I truly haven't gleaned how the others find scum without power roles.High and Mighty.
Post something more than three words and we'll talk.
He's claiming a post restriction. He can't post more than 3 words.
Post by: Rashilul on November 06, 2009, 10:10:29 pm
So much to read but I think I'll start here:
Well, the three other scum, Dakarian, Sir Bayer (Who I tried to get to post), and Zai, probably wouldn't appreciate me telling you that.[/joke]So look around, use what you know and can observe, and try to answer the question, please.Additionally, more seriously, tell me (enumerate) your favored scumbuddies and why. Limit to within game so no picking Pandarsenic.I haven't really played mafia on B12. Mostly on IRC or with my friends or on other forums. Searching my name will bring up a Mafiascum game, which is the first time I played and which I am thoroughly embarrassed about.
But seriously, those are the ones I'm suspicious of. Not really Zai though, he's just kind of a random place holder.
My ideal scum team...I have no idea, gotta read some other B12 mafia games first.
Post by: Neruz on November 06, 2009, 10:19:39 pm
Post by: webadict on November 06, 2009, 10:24:54 pm
Then he can get modkilled. What do I care? Even if he's Town, he's not helpful, so he can speak more than three words or he can leave.Wouldn't have to be if you did something, Mister Three Words.To me. I truly haven't gleaned how the others find scum without power roles.High and Mighty.
Post something more than three words and we'll talk.
He's claiming a post restriction. He can't post more than 3 words.
@WebIt's funny. You're trying to reply to me in a way that I'll assume you're town.
I don't know Eduren's meta. Meanwhile, Toony disagrees: he says that self preservation ISN'T part of his meta. That's why I'm on him. I'll take your idea that he DOES act like this normally into consideration, but I want to hear more from him before I leave him alone.
I pushed you off because you didn't explain yourself, just cried out "SCUMMY!" I started actually talking to you once you brought up actual arguments.
Where did you get me saying that I don't have scumtells? I have reasons for what I do because..well.. I DO HAVE REASONS. When you ask or accuse me about them I will give those reasons. If they seem to fit ever so nicely into a package then there you go. Hate me for it or love me for it, but that's what I do.
You claim I'm lying... on what? That I'm not acting like myself? That you don't believe my arguments?
I suspect you. Yes, I DO suspect you. As such I'll push you. I don't have a second vote so a FOS will do: since it's brought this result I'm glad I left it like that, since Eduren needs a LOT more pressure than you do. Do I want you dead? No, not yet. I make THAT time very very clear and you aren't there yet. Your emotions provide a very nice shield so it's hard to crack you, whether you are town or scum. I want to say you cracked but if so you won't be readable till later. For now, I'll need to be content where you are.
As it is, I can tell you didn't really analyze me very well. How? You didn't know who I was voting for, even though the posts just before our little argument was all about Eduren and my vote hasn't wavered from him for a while. It's noteworthy, that's for sure.
You want to disrupt me. Sorry, I won't be disrupted. Tried it, saw a town die by it. I'll stick to what I do, thank you very much.Spoiler: As for Meph, Just did an anyl: (click to show/hide)
I don't get the attacks on him, except for the first vote and his reasons for it. His actions towards Shadow seem solid. His push on Nurez looks like a regular scumhunt. If he's scum, he's going to need a good deal more pressure if you want something to actually go off of. For now his nose is cleaner than most.
You're posting for my approval and not to actually provide content. That "analysis" you did was subpar for you. I mean come on. I've seen you do big pages on person's post. Not that I really care, but you basically SAID what he did and didn't explain what he did.
And that whole vote thing? Is THAT what you're really going to bring up to make me look suspicious? I mean, you're STILL trying to make me look suspicious! Why don't you just put a big list or something, instead of doing it steadily, like a real accuser.
Hoo boy.Why are they suspicious?
So much to read but I think I'll start here:Well, the three other scum, Dakarian, Sir Bayer (Who I tried to get to post), and Zai, probably wouldn't appreciate me telling you that.[/joke]So look around, use what you know and can observe, and try to answer the question, please.Additionally, more seriously, tell me (enumerate) your favored scumbuddies and why. Limit to within game so no picking Pandarsenic.I haven't really played mafia on B12. Mostly on IRC or with my friends or on other forums. Searching my name will bring up a Mafiascum game, which is the first time I played and which I am thoroughly embarrassed about.
But seriously, those are the ones I'm suspicious of. Not really Zai though, he's just kind of a random place holder.
My ideal scum team...I have no idea, gotta read some other B12 mafia games first.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 06, 2009, 10:34:55 pm
Then he can get modkilled. What do I care? Even if he's Town, he's not helpful, so he can speak more than three words or he can leave.Dying won't help.
Post by: Zai on November 06, 2009, 10:35:34 pm
And the question was?
Also. I find it funny how everybody is going after their own individual people and ignoring everyone else.
You think either me or Web is scum. That's a very, very scummy thing to say, and it's even worse that you didn't explain why you think that. So please, tell us.
1) Didn't say that either you or Web was scum, I said at least one of you (meaning both of you could be) was scum. 2) Not much reason behind it, actually. Can't recall why I said that. Been rather hyper today, if you couldn't tell. No longer suspicious of you at all though, M.P.
I now think at least one of Web and Meph is scum. Leaning more heavily on Web right now.
[PPE:] Yeah, Web's definitely scum.
Post by: webadict on November 06, 2009, 10:54:33 pm
Unvote.Let's hear a reasoning, other than you feel like it, moron. All you're saying is that I'm scummy, and you're only applying it to a logic statement with no premises. Therefore, your statement is neither sound nor valid.And the question was?
Also. I find it funny how everybody is going after their own individual people and ignoring everyone else.
You think either me or Web is scum. That's a very, very scummy thing to say, and it's even worse that you didn't explain why you think that. So please, tell us.
1) Didn't say that either you or Web was scum, I said at least one of you (meaning both of you could be) was scum. 2) Not much reason behind it, actually. Can't recall why I said that. Been rather hyper today, if you couldn't tell. No longer suspicious of you at all though, M.P.
I now think at least one of Web and Meph is scum. Leaning more heavily on Web right now.
[PPE:] Yeah, Web's definitely scum.
Wow, let's see someone with real intelligence accuse me this time.
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 11:02:39 pm
Grounds for that scumteam?
@Neruz
mind quoting that so I know the context?
@Web
Going after someone for a post restriction is more of a waste of time than anything else.
I post to answer your accusations. If you don't like them, then bring more and new accusations.
Mephs analysis was based on what he posted. He went after Nurez for just about the entire time, with a small bit into Shadow. There's not much to attack him on so that's that.
The BIG analysis comes from several game days of posts (i.e. the Bay 12 analysis), a deeply scummy person (A few of my older ones), or involving just about everyone (Toony). I give what I have.
Now, a question: is your main attack on me based on Meta? You go on a lot about how you 'think' I should be acting.
Post by: Rashilul on November 06, 2009, 11:06:37 pm
Hoo boy.Why are they suspicious?
So much to read but I think I'll start here:Well, the three other scum, Dakarian, Sir Bayer (Who I tried to get to post), and Zai, probably wouldn't appreciate me telling you that.[/joke]So look around, use what you know and can observe, and try to answer the question, please.Additionally, more seriously, tell me (enumerate) your favored scumbuddies and why. Limit to within game so no picking Pandarsenic.I haven't really played mafia on B12. Mostly on IRC or with my friends or on other forums. Searching my name will bring up a Mafiascum game, which is the first time I played and which I am thoroughly embarrassed about.
But seriously, those are the ones I'm suspicious of. Not really Zai though, he's just kind of a random place holder.
My ideal scum team...I have no idea, gotta read some other B12 mafia games first.
Sir Bayer is lurking (Or maybe has stuff to do) and Dakarian is just, as you said, scummy.
I think that I'll need to participate in the discussion a bit more before I can get any farther than that.
Post by: Rashilul on November 06, 2009, 11:07:21 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 11:10:58 pm
Please explain why.
You put those names up as if you are pretty darn sure they are scum, yet:
'Sir Bayer is lurking..but maybe he's just not here': So he's scum..but maybe not scum?
'Dakarian is..scummy': So I'm scum because I'm scummy. explain..in your own words instead of just trying to make others fill them in for you.
Webadict is suspicious ...how, and TRY not to use MY words for it if you please.
Post by: Zai on November 06, 2009, 11:12:11 pm
Let's hear a reasoning, other than you feel like it, moron. All you're saying is that I'm scummy, and you're only applying it to a logic statement with no premises. Therefore, your statement is neither sound nor valid.
Wow, let's see someone with real intelligence accuse me this time.
1) I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't be so condescending, Your Royal Highness. 2) I'm not trying to convince anybody here right now, and therefore do not need to explain my vote. I'll leave that to Dak, who I think will be much more persuasive. If he starts being scummy again, votes shall change.
At least one of the following is scum: Web, Meph, and Dak. Suspicions in that order right now.
Post by: webadict on November 06, 2009, 11:23:05 pm
So, what about the other lurkers? Are they not suspicious as well?Hoo boy.Why are they suspicious?
So much to read but I think I'll start here:Well, the three other scum, Dakarian, Sir Bayer (Who I tried to get to post), and Zai, probably wouldn't appreciate me telling you that.[/joke]So look around, use what you know and can observe, and try to answer the question, please.Additionally, more seriously, tell me (enumerate) your favored scumbuddies and why. Limit to within game so no picking Pandarsenic.I haven't really played mafia on B12. Mostly on IRC or with my friends or on other forums. Searching my name will bring up a Mafiascum game, which is the first time I played and which I am thoroughly embarrassed about.
But seriously, those are the ones I'm suspicious of. Not really Zai though, he's just kind of a random place holder.
My ideal scum team...I have no idea, gotta read some other B12 mafia games first.
Sir Bayer is lurking (Or maybe has stuff to do) and Dakarian is just, as you said, scummy.
I think that I'll need to participate in the discussion a bit more before I can get any farther than that.
And what about dakarian is the most scummy?
@RashilulMy analysis goes on what I think is off about your explanation. I feel that you are presenting to me and not the crowd. The crowd is we and you're only trying to make me make them believe you're town. That's why I don't like your posts.
Grounds for that scumteam?
@Neruz
mind quoting that so I know the context?
@Web
Going after someone for a post restriction is more of a waste of time than anything else.
I post to answer your accusations. If you don't like them, then bring more and new accusations.
Mephs analysis was based on what he posted. He went after Nurez for just about the entire time, with a small bit into Shadow. There's not much to attack him on so that's that.
The BIG analysis comes from several game days of posts (i.e. the Bay 12 analysis), a deeply scummy person (A few of my older ones), or involving just about everyone (Toony). I give what I have.
Now, a question: is your main attack on me based on Meta? You go on a lot about how you 'think' I should be acting.
And yes about Meph. There isn't a whole lot to go on.
But, the post restriction thing isn't crap. He's obviously not helpful, and likely his role is just a bunch of crap. I'm pretty sure he can speak just fine, and he's only doing it to throw us off. And if he can't his role can't really be considered helpful, since we're playing a game of analyzation and not of "be a stupid a moron."
... Did you really just say that someone else will explain your vote? Do you have no will? No thought? No soul? Because you're certainly not helpful to your cause. And you ARE trying to convince EVERYONE that the person you're voting for is scum. This isn't random voting if you say I'm scummy but don't say why, and you've certainly made it clear you're not going to say a why, because odds are you don't have a why, now do you? This is likely a test to see who will join you and who will flake. How that's helpful is debatable, but I honestly have better things to deal with than you.Let's hear a reasoning, other than you feel like it, moron. All you're saying is that I'm scummy, and you're only applying it to a logic statement with no premises. Therefore, your statement is neither sound nor valid.
Wow, let's see someone with real intelligence accuse me this time.
1) I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't be so condescending, Your Royal Highness. 2) I'm not trying to convince anybody here right now, and therefore do not need to explain my vote. I'll leave that to Dak, who I think will be much more persuasive. If he starts being scummy again, votes shall change.
At least one of the following is scum: Web, Meph, and Dak. Suspicions in that order right now.
And I never asked you to call me Highness. I won't treat you like a moron if you didn't, ya know, act like one. So, perhaps instead of being a whiney little baby, try stepping up and doing proper analyzing, instead of this WIFOM crap of "Duuuuuuuuh, I think at least one of the town is scum. Duuuuuuh." Yeah, because that's helpful to everyone. Give reasons why.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 06, 2009, 11:28:13 pm
Let's hear a reasoning, other than you feel like it, moron. All you're saying is that I'm scummy, and you're only applying it to a logic statement with no premises. Therefore, your statement is neither sound nor valid.
Wow, let's see someone with real intelligence accuse me this time.
1) I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't be so condescending, Your Royal Highness. 2) I'm not trying to convince anybody here right now, and therefore do not need to explain my vote. I'll leave that to Dak, who I think will be much more persuasive. If he starts being scummy again, votes shall change.
At least one of the following is scum: Web, Meph, and Dak. Suspicions in that order right now.
You're doing a marvelous job of looking scummy. Don't even bother saying anything else to me, my vote is not moving, period.
There's 19 players in here. I'm no expert, but we're focusing on Web, Meph, Dakarian, Zai, and SHAD0Wdump a little bit too much. Well, Zai should get more votes, since he's scum, but we need to hear from, oh I dunno, the rest of the fucking town.
Post by: Rashilul on November 06, 2009, 11:31:57 pm
You put those names up as if you are pretty darn sure they are scum, yet:No I didn't. If I were "pretty darn sure" I would have voted.
'Sir Bayer is lurking..but maybe he's just not here': So he's scum..but maybe not scum?Maybe, maybe not. I haven't been participating long enough to really get a read on people. My suspicions for him don't even warrant an FoS.
Also: I forgot about my vote on him, so unvote
'Dakarian is..scummy': So I'm scum because I'm scummy. explain..in your own words instead of just trying to make others fill them in for you.You go after Eduren for something that was most obviously a random vote and a joke (Sir Bayer jumped on this right away), and get off being very suspicious of anyone who so much as wags a finger at you.
Perhaps it is just how you play, but it is very scummy.
Webadict is suspicious ...how, and TRY not to use MY words for it if you please.Mostly for the whole SHAD0Wdump fiasco.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 06, 2009, 11:39:08 pm
Also, if there is a Gordon Freeman, I hope he attacks me tonight.
Post by: webadict on November 06, 2009, 11:52:20 pm
...Because he's unhelpful?Webadict is suspicious ...how, and TRY not to use MY words for it if you please.Mostly for the whole SHAD0Wdump fiasco.
REEEEEEEEEAAAALLLLLLLLYYYYY????!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!
Please indulge me: What is this SHAD0Wdump fiasco?
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 11:54:00 pm
My analysis goes on what I think is off about your explanation. I feel that you are presenting to me and not the crowd. The crowd is we and you're only trying to make me make them believe you're town. That's why I don't like your posts.
Partially correct.
When I argue with a person, I do focus on that person and myself. I'm NOT addressing the town as of yet, though they are content to read it over. However, I'm not trying to convince you that I'm town either. Instead, I'm doing two jobs:
1. Answering your questions and accusations. I have a firm belief that you should answer them even as you are focused elsewhere. It's extremely scummy to dodge a question or not answer to an accusation. Note that it is directly aimed at YOU, not the town, since they are YOUR questions.
Do I try to prove myself town to you? No. I answer them because you ask and I can answer. When you get sick of me always explaining myself to your accusations or answering your questions you can stop sending them to me.
2. Reading you. It's HARD (for me at least) to read someone that is accusing you, but it's still possible while they attack you, and much easier afterwards if you're still around to do so. I'm trying to read you through your posts and see just what kind of motive you have behind the text. As such, it helps me understand you more to continue debating you. That it's you doing the main attacks doesn't change that, in truth.
So yes, it's you and me. If I become SURE that you are scum then you'll see my tone change and my audience expand.
Quote
And yes about Meph. There isn't a whole lot to go on.
So why did you expect a 1000 page report on him?
Quote
But, the post restriction thing isn't crap. He's obviously not helpful, and likely his role is just a bunch of crap. I'm pretty sure he can speak just fine, and he's only doing it to throw us off. And if he can't his role can't really be considered helpful, since we're playing a game of analyzation and not of "be a stupid a moron."
That's the reason behind the Lurker Hunters as well and, frankly, I find that pure Bullshit.
A townie could be restricted to not post all game and they are still helpful if only because they give us one more lynch before we lose.
For example, with 4 scum, we have 6 mislynches (assuming only the NK and the lynch itself, which is enough for the point I bring). If one person gets modkilled we will be down to 5 mislynches before it's over, with a Nolynch somewhere inbetween. As such, if he's town, then he's one of the reasons why we still have that 6th lynch.
This is why the 'useless townie' lynch is bullshit. It hurts every single person in the town just because you are 'annoyed' by them. If you think he's scum then fine, accuse him, vote for him, get him lynched as scum. If you think he's town, then shut up about it and stop wasting your time and everyone's attention span with your annoyance of him.
Quote
... Did you really just say that someone else will explain your vote? Do you have no will? No thought? No soul? Because you're certainly not helpful to your cause. And you ARE trying to convince EVERYONE that the person you're voting for is scum. This isn't random voting if you say I'm scummy but don't say why, and you've certainly made it clear you're not going to say a why, because odds are you don't have a why, now do you? This is likely a test to see who will join you and who will flake. How that's helpful is debatable, but I honestly have better things to deal with than you.
And I never asked you to call me Highness. I won't treat you like a moron if you didn't, ya know, act like one. So, perhaps instead of being a whiney little baby, try stepping up and doing proper analyzing, instead of this WIFOM crap of "Duuuuuuuuh, I think at least one of the town is scum. Duuuuuuh." Yeah, because that's helpful to everyone. Give reasons why.
Now you see? Instead of complaining about mr. 3-words, you could be doing more of this.
Post by: webadict on November 06, 2009, 11:59:33 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 12:02:24 am
You put those names up as if you are pretty darn sure they are scum, yet:No I didn't. If I were "pretty darn sure" I would have voted.
So what IS the purpose of those names? If you aren't 'sure' then are they random?
Quote
'Sir Bayer is lurking..but maybe he's just not here': So he's scum..but maybe not scum?Maybe, maybe not. I haven't been participating long enough to really get a read on people. My suspicions for him don't even warrant an FoS.
Also: I forgot about my vote on him, so unvote
So why bring him up? You don't just put up a person on a list like that for no reason, or are you still in the RVS phase?
Quote
'Dakarian is..scummy': So I'm scum because I'm scummy. explain..in your own words instead of just trying to make others fill them in for you.You go after Eduren for something that was most obviously a random vote and a joke (Sir Bayer jumped on this right away), and get off being very suspicious of anyone who so much as wags a finger at you.
Perhaps it is just how you play, but it is very scummy.
I'm going off on Eduren based on his 'surprise' response to my prod on him, not for the vote and joke.
Beyond that, I've mostly been poking at webadict, since he didn't explain his accusations at the time when he called me 'scummy'.
Quote
Webadict is suspicious ...how, and TRY not to use MY words for it if you please.Mostly for the whole SHAD0Wdump fiasco.
I can claim that his meta would explain that. He gets hostile over vagueness and Shadow's 3 word posts haven't helped to make him less than vague.
Sidenote: mind stating such reasons at the time of you putting those names up, NOT after we have to prod you for it? :P
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 12:06:32 am
Problem is I can't properly analyze someone that says three words. They might as well active lurk or just plain-old lurk.
I believe he said that the restriction is temporary (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg852557#msg852557). In Day 2 he'll be able to post regularly. It's why Meph pulled off on him.
So, in Day 2 it'll be safe to tear into him hard. If he's still 3-word man then, well, there's the lie right there.
Post by: Rashilul on November 07, 2009, 12:07:55 am
Post by: Neruz on November 07, 2009, 12:08:14 am
Unvote. I am so lost right now.
Post by: Rashilul on November 07, 2009, 12:11:41 am
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 12:15:13 am
Also, before I leave, dakarian....Really? You didn't even bother to answer anything.
Post by: Neruz on November 07, 2009, 12:15:42 am
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 12:17:43 am
Is web normally this annoying in Mafia games?
Sometimes.
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 12:18:22 am
Is web normally this annoying in Mafia games?Only when I want to be. It also stops people from using Meta against me.
I could be calm and patient, but that just doesn't get the job done these days.
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 12:22:27 am
Btw, Web, he did explain himself in the end.
You go after Eduren for something that was most obviously a random vote and a joke (Sir Bayer jumped on this right away), and get off being very suspicious of anyone who so much as wags a finger at you.
Perhaps it is just how you play, but it is very scummy.
Already answered it later. Don't like that we had to push him on it, but meh.
Something tells me that I may have to do a Wide Scan. A bigger part tells me that Wide Scanning 19 people will make me cry. *sigh* Beats doing it in day 3 I guess.
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 12:23:13 am
Town or scum, he's a bloodthirsty one with a rough tongue: overwhelming but keeps the game going, especially when others have passed out.He never answered my questions.
Btw, Web, he did explain himself in the end.You go after Eduren for something that was most obviously a random vote and a joke (Sir Bayer jumped on this right away), and get off being very suspicious of anyone who so much as wags a finger at you.
Perhaps it is just how you play, but it is very scummy.
Already answered it later. Don't like that we had to push him on it, but meh.
Something tells me that I may have to do a Wide Scan. A bigger part tells me that Wide Scanning 19 people will make me cry. *sigh* Beats doing it in day 3 I guess.
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 12:27:34 am
The lurker question was ignored. The Shadow question I understood it, but yah, he didn't answer to you about it either.
Still, I smell inexperience there, not so much scum.
Post by: Eduren on November 07, 2009, 12:37:03 am
I'm going off on Eduren based on his 'surprise' response to my prod on him, not for the vote and joke.
Since I don't want to comb your last five walls of text, I'm going to assume that this is basically what you are holding against me.
Here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg852197#msg852197) I make a joke about how you confused Meph with Pandar. You then (in my opinion) overreact (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg852210#msg852210). I am surprised at your reaction and then assume that you didn't get it (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg852227#msg852227). From the beginning it was a joke and even Toony recognized that (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg852217#msg852217).
Now, since you guys decided to post a handful of pages while I was away, I am going do some reading.
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 12:59:12 am
*KICK*
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 07, 2009, 01:18:02 am
I go through a mountain of mess and the result is anti-climatic.Please, share your results. While I am too tired to analyze right now, it'd be good to get it out now, while it's fresh in your mind. And also: you mean anticlimactic?
*KICK*
Post by: Cheeetar on November 07, 2009, 01:55:13 am
Aagh too much shit going on, no fucking clue what is happening anymore.
Unvote. I am so lost right now.
FoS. 'I have no idea you guys, let me sit in the corner for a while and watch while you lynch each other'.
Post by: Neruz on November 07, 2009, 02:04:33 am
Or we could just lynch someone at random, statistically that always works out so well for the town after all.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 07, 2009, 02:07:01 am
Post by: Neruz on November 07, 2009, 02:14:45 am
Post by: Leafsnail on November 07, 2009, 04:58:30 am
Webadict: Ok, what the hell? Passivity, weak attacks, weak defense, weak everything... it's almost as if you're trying to avoid detection! When on earth does town webadict do this?
Mephansteras: Useless questions, and yes, they do resemble the questions he asked in Bay 12 Mafia in order to try and appear as if he was doing something and scumhunting. Town Meph seems to be significantly more aggressive.
Rashilul: My vote was on you originally, and while you haven't given me any real reason to remove it, I'm unvoting in order to put more pressure on webadict, who has now surpassed you in terms of scumminess. However, you've come up with a list of scum, but you don't seem to have acted on it, nor do you seem to have pressured any of the members of this list at all. How come?
Dakarian: Actually, he seems to be acting like he usually does as town. I certainly wouldn't clear him of being scum, but he's not on my main list at the moment.
Zaithemaster: Ok, what the hell is up with this post:
Quote
1) I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't be so condescending, Your Royal Highness. 2) I'm not trying to convince anybody here right now, and therefore do not need to explain my vote. I'll leave that to Dak, who I think will be much more persuasive. If he starts being scummy again, votes shall change.Leaving someone else to attack for you is the very definition of passivity! You should be doing your own scumhunting, not just waiting for a super poster, who's not totally guarenteed to be town anyway, to do it for you.
Lurkers: Argh, there's too many of them. For now, however, I'd prefer a lynch on someone who's acting scummily than someone who hasn't posted yet. One day we might get our 10 votes on someone...
Post by: Neruz on November 07, 2009, 05:07:55 am
But then again, considering past histories of games like this and player actions, the same could probably be said for Toony.
Post by: Leafsnail on November 07, 2009, 05:10:14 am
Post by: Neruz on November 07, 2009, 05:12:04 am
Post by: Neruz on November 07, 2009, 05:12:36 am
This is rediculous.
Post by: Leafsnail on November 07, 2009, 06:25:44 am
Spoiler: Unofficial Votcount (click to show/hide)
Post by: Neruz on November 07, 2009, 06:34:29 am
Also i see Meph is still furiously waving his finger at me. Hi Meph, i'm afraid i'm innocent, but that's some mighty-fine finger pointing you're doing there.
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 07:54:33 am
It's taking a while because...well.. that's how long it takes when you don't rely on power roles and luck. Over in the mafiascum forums, the first day can go on for 3 weeks with only 9 people and, trust me, those weeks were NEEDED.
We don't quite need a ton more time here, but don't think we need to just go randomly lynch someone now. Instead, practice doing a Wide Scan:
Pull up notepad, grab the list of players, then start at the moment the game began. go down the posts taking note on three events from each player:
1. Votes, including the first randomvote. Also note reasons (if any) for vote switches
2. scumtownwhateverTells you see.
3. Anything that catches your eye.
You can focus on a particular issue (passiveness, rolehunting, ext..) or make it an overall account of everyone's actions this day, whatever you think is useful. Avoid biases: pretend everyone is Neutral when you start and don't even THINK of considering someone scum or town until you are done. If you don't know how to find scumtells or scummy behavior just write what they've done so you at least know what was going on.
After that, you'll have a good account on how people have acted so far. Send questions to those who did something odd, and attack those who looked the most scummy to you. Stop trying to end the day and try to actually make use of the day.
Will you catch scum the first day? Maybe, maybe not. However, even if not, those notes will become a powerful tool later on. In fact, the attacks you do based on those notes today will ALSO be useful later on. This day is where you get the data that makes Day 2 and 3 so knowledgeable.
THAT is how you scumhunt.
As for my own self, I needed to rest after that last post. I'll be able to dive in soon enough.
Post by: Neruz on November 07, 2009, 07:59:52 am
Also, it's late, sleep time for me.
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 08:01:13 am
Realize this (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg851364#msg851364) is the first post of the game, on November 5th. We've only been doing this for 2 days. Almost every other game on this forum has a longer Day 1 than that! #)#%# the newbies in Beginner's took about as long and they ended in a VERY rapid bandwagon.
We're not taking a long time. We just have 19 people here with a good few active folks who are actually trying to scumhunt and contribute. That's a VERY good thing, for town at least.
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 08:03:36 am
I am well aware as to how to scumhunt, unfortunately i havn't turned up anything of use; i don't know how everyone plays mafia well enough to pick up on personality specific tells, and the non-personality specific tells are enough to make me plenty suspicious of people, but nobody really jumps out as a clear vote candidate.
Also, it's late, sleep time for me.
For now, just focus on knowing what everyone has done so far the past 2 RL days. Once you know, aim for those suspicious people and push them till they crack. You don't need to aim your vote for the kill: aim your vote as a pressure vote to make them crack and either calm your suspicions or become a clear lynch target.
Post by: ExKirby on November 07, 2009, 08:58:48 am
I do have to say that web seems a bit more pushy than per average, so (unvote) vote Web.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 07, 2009, 10:00:54 am
Dakarian's got the most votes, so if we actually want to lynch someone the best bet would be to bandwagon him.What. The. Fuck.
"Let's just bandwagon him because he's got the most votes"? Isn't that approaching the definition of scummy?
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 10:07:53 am
Woah... rather a lot of pages since I was last here. I'll go through my top suspects now. Unvote....
Webadict: Ok, what the hell? Passivity, weak attacks, weak defense, weak everything... it's almost as if you're trying to avoid detection! When on earth does town webadict do this?
Mephansteras: Useless questions, and yes, they do resemble the questions he asked in Bay 12 Mafia in order to try and appear as if he was doing something and scumhunting. Town Meph seems to be significantly more aggressive.
Rashilul: My vote was on you originally, and while you haven't given me any real reason to remove it, I'm unvoting in order to put more pressure on webadict, who has now surpassed you in terms of scumminess. However, you've come up with a list of scum, but you don't seem to have acted on it, nor do you seem to have pressured any of the members of this list at all. How come?
Dakarian: Actually, he seems to be acting like he usually does as town. I certainly wouldn't clear him of being scum, but he's not on my main list at the moment.
Zaithemaster: Ok, what the hell is up with this post:Quote1) I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't be so condescending, Your Royal Highness. 2) I'm not trying to convince anybody here right now, and therefore do not need to explain my vote. I'll leave that to Dak, who I think will be much more persuasive. If he starts being scummy again, votes shall change.Leaving someone else to attack for you is the very definition of passivity! You should be doing your own scumhunting, not just waiting for a super poster, who's not totally guarenteed to be town anyway, to do it for you.
Lurkers: Argh, there's too many of them. For now, however, I'd prefer a lynch on someone who's acting scummily than someone who hasn't posted yet. One day we might get our 10 votes on someone...
Well, we can tell that Leafsnail has no sense of perspective. Let's see, who's next...
Ah!
OK, we've posted a lot-far to much for me to memorize.I'm glad that you've avoided all the real scummy behavior to point out that I'm pushy, which matches up perfectly with how I normally am. If I were generally passive, or having weak attacks (NOW WHERE DID I HEAR THAT?), perhaps I'd be guilty of that, but I switch it up to avoid that meta.
I do have to say that web seems a bit more pushy than per average, so (unvote) vote Web.
If you want to use meta against me, you're going to have to try a whole lot harder.
Love the two angles you two seemed to put on me.
Now give examples, morons.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 07, 2009, 10:08:55 am
Unvote.
Webadict - MORON TALK WILL WORK HAH HA HA. I WISH I COULD SAY MORE, BUT IT'S META.
Mr.Person - LYNCH ZAI RARR.
Mephansteras - Yeah yeah, acting like in B12. Not going to lose that again!
Apostolic Nihilist - I haven't heard much from this fellow.
Zai - Being scummy. LAID BACK.
Eduren - I'll just move you up a bit for not doing anything. Of course, that's your job, right? And when you do something, it usual involves the SAME thing from the past and THAT'S it!
RedWarrior0 - Where are you?
Org - STUPID IS ALWAYS STUPID.
SirBayer - Being stupid scummy, but it...just...agh...yeah. It could be increibally likely he's town.
Cheeetar - Just riding along doing null.
Neruz - Newb. Just like SirBayer, but worse. Scum logic on me.
Dakarian - Why yes, the dakarian. I was suspicious of him intially, but it has dwindled a bit after Webadict's "moron talk", responded pretty town.
SHAD0WDump - Three words right now, let's see tomorrow.
Leafsnail -
ExKirby - Same as SirBayer and Neruz....except he STILL is.
Vector - I don't know much. More in LATER.
CobaltKobold - Meh, can't think of anything noticable.
Rashilul - I'd say SCUM! He say NEWB!
Agh, that's alot of people...only four scum, right? :V
FAKE-EDIT:
RedWarrior....I see scum getting a lynch of newbie town.
FAKE FAKE-EDIT:
Hah, Webadict you're so scummy. :-D
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 10:10:57 am
Alright guys, I wake up...like five or six pages, no worries. Let me pump out my suspicions on everyone.That's very convincing Toony. So convincing that I can't help but bow to your logic.
Unvote.
Webadict - MORON TALK WILL WORK HAH HA HA. I WISH I COULD SAY MORE, BUT IT'S META.
I'm glad you didn't read the post I posted about 3 minutes ago.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 07, 2009, 10:11:32 am
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 10:17:14 am
I was posting something big!AND THE EVIDENCE GETS HIGHER EVERYONE!
Post by: ToonyMan on November 07, 2009, 10:21:57 am
Everyone else - YOU ARE A MORON MORN MORON.
ToonyMan - Sarcastic glee.
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 10:22:37 am
Webadict's reactions to PEOPLE:I felt saying you were a moron would be too easy.
Everyone else - YOU ARE A MORON MORN MORON.
ToonyMan - Sarcastic glee.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 07, 2009, 10:24:07 am
Post by: Org on November 07, 2009, 10:37:24 am
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 10:56:21 am
Thank you scum!I've yet to see you actually try to prove it.
All I've got are people subtly poking me saying things like "He's passive" and "He's pushy" and "He's suspicious"
Let's see some real examples. This is ridiculous. At least ATTEMPT to describe what it is you're accusing me of and maybe explain, because as it is, only dakarian has actually tried. Everyone else gives a one sentence explanation, votes, then leaves.
AWESOME.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 11:19:19 am
Done yet?Want something real?
lolololol.
You're funny to avoid an actual OMGUS. That, in itself, is scummy.
Weak derail is weak.
Now stop protecting Eduren. He's who I'm after now.
Or, at least, come up with something real instead of a vague non-accusation.
dakarian. That's something real, you stupid moron.
That's a vote. You're passive and unemotional.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 07, 2009, 11:25:08 am
THIS TOOK
20 MINUTES
I HOPE YOU ARE ALL HAPPY
>:[
01. SirBayer [None]:
02. Cheeetar [1]: Eduren
03. Neruz [2]: Mephansteras, RedWarrior0
04. Dakarian [3]: Mr.Person, Webadict, Rashilul
05. SHAD0WDump [None]:
06. Leafsnail [None]:
07. ExKirby [1]: Leafsnail
08. Vector [None]:
09. Mr.Person [1]: Dakarian
10. Mephansteras [2]: Zai, Cheeetar
11. Apostolic Nihilist [None]:
12. Zai [1]: Mr.Person
13. Eduren [2]: Dakarian, SirBayer
14. ToonyMan [None]:
15. Webadict [5]: Shad0wdump, Zai, Leafsnail, ExKirby, ToonyMan
16. Org [None]:
17. CobaltKobold [None]:
18. Rashilul [1]: CobaltKobold
19. RedWarrior0 [None]:
Okay, good fucking god, from now on:
You must name the person you are unvoting so I can figure out who on my list of 19 people it is. I can't view that many lines of text at 800x600 resolution.
Also, I bolded anyone above 2 votes.
(Also, quit complaining about how long this is taking! If it was deadline, the deadline would have been MONDAY AT 11 PM PACIFIC. Get over it. D:<)
Edit: I CAN COUTN
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 11:27:46 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 07, 2009, 11:30:28 am
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 11:31:41 am
Dakarian's got the most votes, so if we actually want to lynch someone the best bet would be to bandwagon him.
Fuck. Unvote Web. I put my vote on Neruz. This is ridiculous. The game's been going for only a day or two and you want everyone to bandwagon to end the first day? Ridiculous.
Unvote. I'm going to follow Neruz's suggestion. But it isn't random: He suggested that we don't lynch at odd numbers, which is statisticallly bad from what I've heard. And don't forget this:Dakarian's got the most votes, so if we actually want to lynch someone the best bet would be to bandwagon him.What. The. Fuck.
"Let's just bandwagon him because he's got the most votes"? Isn't that approaching the definition of scummy?
Good job RW0. Beat me to it.
[PPE:] I be already doin' that 'name who you unvote' stuff, Pandar. How I get bonus?
Post by: ToonyMan on November 07, 2009, 11:32:49 am
Four votes Webadict.
That it is. I'm voting you Webadict because you are highly insulting when you're scum. You're only insulting when town.
And another person put a quote of me in their sig. D:
FAKE-EDIT: I CAN'T EVEN GET A WORD IN WITHOUT NEW REPLIES.
Post by: Org on November 07, 2009, 11:34:01 am
I must say, Neruz, bandwagoning is not the thing that needs to be done. As Zai said, how bout we DONT bandwagon someone for an easy end?Dakarian's got the most votes, so if we actually want to lynch someone the best bet would be to bandwagon him.
Fuck. Unvote Web. I put my vote on Neruz. This is ridiculous. The game's been going for only a day or two and you want everyone to bandwagon to end the first day? Ridiculous.Unvote. I'm going to follow Neruz's suggestion. But it isn't random: He suggested that we don't lynch at odd numbers, which is statisticallly bad from what I've heard. And don't forget this:Dakarian's got the most votes, so if we actually want to lynch someone the best bet would be to bandwagon him.What. The. Fuck.
"Let's just bandwagon him because he's got the most votes"? Isn't that approaching the definition of scummy?
Good job RW0. Beat me to it.
[PPE:] I be already doin' that 'name who you unvote' stuff, Pandar. How I get bonus?
Post by: ToonyMan on November 07, 2009, 11:34:51 am
I have said worst my first mafia.
Post by: Org on November 07, 2009, 11:40:40 am
I haven't voted Neruz 'cause this is his first mafia, no?No. Its not.
I have said worst my first mafia.
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 11:43:15 am
Spoiler: Not Safe for Work.. (click to show/hide)
tHERE..*cough* There, I feel better.
That said, here's my Wide Scan...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now I need to go actually READ the #&%*(4 thing.
And calm down a little... :P
Post by: Org on November 07, 2009, 11:47:16 am
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 11:48:01 am
Uh huh... Sure.Four votes Webadict.
That it is. I'm voting you Webadict because you are highly insulting when you're scum. You're only insulting when town.
And another person put a quote of me in their sig. D:
FAKE-EDIT: I CAN'T EVEN GET A WORD IN WITHOUT NEW REPLIES.
What about it is suspicious? I too can quote things, but it takes a real analysis to make it mean a thing.Done yet?Want something real?
lolololol.
You're funny to avoid an actual OMGUS. That, in itself, is scummy.
Weak derail is weak.
Now stop protecting Eduren. He's who I'm after now.
Or, at least, come up with something real instead of a vague non-accusation.
dakarian. That's something real, you stupid moron.
That's a vote. You're passive and unemotional.
Yeah,LOL!I must say, Neruz, bandwagoning is not the thing that needs to be done. As Zai said, how bout we DONT bandwagon someone for an easy end?Dakarian's got the most votes, so if we actually want to lynch someone the best bet would be to bandwagon him.
Fuck. Unvote Web. I put my vote on Neruz. This is ridiculous. The game's been going for only a day or two and you want everyone to bandwagon to end the first day? Ridiculous.Unvote. I'm going to follow Neruz's suggestion. But it isn't random: He suggested that we don't lynch at odd numbers, which is statisticallly bad from what I've heard. And don't forget this:Dakarian's got the most votes, so if we actually want to lynch someone the best bet would be to bandwagon him.What. The. Fuck.
"Let's just bandwagon him because he's got the most votes"? Isn't that approaching the definition of scummy?
Good job RW0. Beat me to it.
[PPE:] I be already doin' that 'name who you unvote' stuff, Pandar. How I get bonus?
You're bandwagoning someone FOR BANDWAGONING! OH MY GOD! DOES ANYONE NOT SEE THESE THINGS?!?!?!?!
You forgot me.I didn't.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 07, 2009, 11:49:35 am
You forgot me.
Just like how you were forgotten in sign-ups.
:-D
EVERYONE IGNORE ORG.
FAKE-EDIT:
Hey Webadict! I see you are not angry at me? IS IT BECAUSE YOU REALIZED WHAT YOU DO AS SCUM?
Post by: Org on November 07, 2009, 11:51:53 am
Post by: ToonyMan on November 07, 2009, 11:52:38 am
I was talking to dakarian.
And you were ignored!
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 11:56:39 am
I figured that obvious sarcasm was obvious. Do you want a compliment for being wrong? Because, ya know, you're wrong.You forgot me.
Just like how you were forgotten in sign-ups.
:-D
EVERYONE IGNORE ORG.
FAKE-EDIT:
Hey Webadict! I see you are not angry at me? IS IT BECAUSE YOU REALIZED WHAT YOU DO AS SCUM?
And continuing to insult your intelligence will lead to zero progress. Perhaps you should take notice to the actual game that's playing.
I was talking to dakarian.And I'm talking to you.
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 11:59:36 am
And no, No lynch is a BAD BAD idea.
Zai: why are you trying to buddy up with me? Why are you thinking you can use me to attack webadict? Why are you declaring people scum so...passively?
Eduren: I need a lot more content out of you. On the other hand, the attack on you brought out web better, which brought A LOT of other people out. As for you, meh.
Rash: I thought you were just a little floundering till I did this anyl. Now I see you as softly attacking and just henpecking everyone. I dislike that.
So, after all that mess, I find Zai as the one to lynch. Passive but trying to look aggressive, attempting to lean on me HARD which, as he seems to not know, is a BIG scumtell for me. I guess he thought I would join him in wiping out "the one and only Webadict!" not realizing that I consider the enemy of my enemy utter SCUM.
Zai, you're scum.. flatly sscum. Now, explain your actions for the past day please or the noose will figure it out for you.
@ Mod AN has not posted ONCE this whole game. PROD request
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 12:01:29 pm
You forgot me.
I ignore "oh I'm here" posts, and I stopped at about the point of pandar's most recent vote count.
You just didn't have much content at all.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 12:02:40 pm
What about it is suspicious? I too can quote things, but it takes a real analysis to make it mean a thing.You're voting him.
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 12:30:14 pm
Yeah, I must say, Neruz, bandwagoning is not the thing that needs to be done. As Zai said, how bout we DONT bandwagon someone for an easy end?
lulwut
Bandwagoning on someone for bandwagoning? This is pathetic even for you, Org.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 12:39:23 pm
Explain why fully.What about it is suspicious? I too can quote things, but it takes a real analysis to make it mean a thing.You're voting him.
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 01:20:07 pm
You're voting for me because you lack the ability to look back and find out why I was voting fr him, despite the fact that you can go back and find the post where I vote for him?Explain why fully.What about it is suspicious? I too can quote things, but it takes a real analysis to make it mean a thing.You're voting him.
Also, you can quote things and they don't count as three words, huh?
Three words:
What a hypocrite.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 01:21:09 pm
Explain again dork.You're voting for me because you lack the ability to look back and find out why I was voting fr him, despite the fact that you can go back and find the post where I vote for him?Explain why fully.What about it is suspicious? I too can quote things, but it takes a real analysis to make it mean a thing.You're voting him.
Also, you can quote things and they don't count as three words, huh?
Three words:
What a hypocrite.
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 01:25:53 pm
Go back and look. The only thing you can apparently do is say three words, so you have the capacity and the time to look.Explain again dork.You're voting for me because you lack the ability to look back and find out why I was voting fr him, despite the fact that you can go back and find the post where I vote for him?Explain why fully.What about it is suspicious? I too can quote things, but it takes a real analysis to make it mean a thing.You're voting him.
Also, you can quote things and they don't count as three words, huh?
Three words:
What a hypocrite.
So, maybe instead of being lazy, making up excuses, and providing no help, you could...
Oh, what's it called...
Hold on...
Tip of my tongue...
Oh right. Shoot yourself in the head.
Just leave.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 01:27:27 pm
Afraid to talk?Go back and look. The only thing you can apparently do is say three words, so you have the capacity and the time to look.Explain again dork.You're voting for me because you lack the ability to look back and find out why I was voting fr him, despite the fact that you can go back and find the post where I vote for him?Explain why fully.What about it is suspicious? I too can quote things, but it takes a real analysis to make it mean a thing.You're voting him.
Also, you can quote things and they don't count as three words, huh?
Three words:
What a hypocrite.
So, maybe instead of being lazy, making up excuses, and providing no help, you could...
Oh, what's it called...
Hold on...
Tip of my tongue...
Oh right. Shoot yourself in the head.
Just leave.
Post by: Rashilul on November 07, 2009, 01:32:04 pm
Pre-post edit: Webadict, your hostility to all things town is quite suspicious. Make you should take a tranquilizer and come back.
Besides that you're being downright annoying.
Post by: Rashilul on November 07, 2009, 01:32:49 pm
Quote
Maybe you should take a tranquilizer and come back.:P
Post by: Mr.Person on November 07, 2009, 02:00:48 pm
Webadict, refusing to rexplain yourself is scummy. Reexplain yourself or I'll vote you.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 07, 2009, 02:28:57 pm
Post by: Org on November 07, 2009, 02:29:33 pm
I'm leaving my vote on Neruz. Calling for a Bandwagon on the person with the most votes? Yeah, still scummy.Agreed. *Glares at Zai
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 02:42:27 pm
On your "most scummy list"
Me? I'm ...off.. why who knows..
Meph: No force or drive.. when you aren't voting for him, questioning, him, or even using an argument that's not being used by someone else (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg852346#msg852346)
Neurez: more valid, though it seems not that strong since you quickly left him for Meph...
..who you quickly unvoted once you liked his reasoning and got poked at by Mr. Person (and thus went to a 'safe spot' by voting for the lurker and declaring everyone should do similar)
..then quickly went BACK to voting for throwing a question out
..then unvoted and switched with Web with a "it's Web and/or Meph" with no explanation why either HAS to be scum and why Web looks worse than him since you didn't pressure either one of them.
OHBTW, if we go BACK to that post (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg853074#msg853074) you have a nice bit with Mr.Person where he attacks you and, in response, you declare him 'no longer suspicious'.
As for Web.. he pushes you and, what do we get: this (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg853117#msg853117).
You're voting for him.. that is, you are of a mind to have him Killed.. and you don't care to explain why you want to or have any need to convince anyone for it.
Instead you point at me and say "go get em."
Meanwhile, you threaten me with saying I'm one of your prime suspects then pull off to consider me "perhaps scum if one of these guys aren't scum", then charge at the person I'm attacking.
I know that game. The story is meant to end with this:
Dakarian, feeling the threat of death fade away from him, charges with renewed vigor at his accuser. With the combined effort, they strike hard against the Webadict and smite him. Others join the battle cry and soon the noose is on his neck and the "Aggressive Jerk" is finally out of our hairs forever! I'm sorry, but I've seen that game before. Pandarsenic hit the town HARD with that in BM2. It's the Lightning Rod strategy. Look for a person who attacks accusers, push them a little, then spring them at another and watch them slaughter that person.
You're casual, not aggressive. You're passive, not careful. You're "Me Too" ish, not supportive. You don't argue, you don't debate, you just want attack the worst hit so you don't LOOK like you're bandwagoning.
You're scum. I don't even know why I'm waiting. It'll take someone else to show me why I'm mistaken.
@Everyone
Please read over Zai's section of the Wide Scan (though please excuse the 'passive' mislinks that lead to Rash's posts instead), then read my arguments and Zai's posts throughout the day and answer me this:
1. If there's something I'm missing PLEASE tell me so I can explain or reevaluate my argument.
2. If I make sense but you are just suspicious please send questions or accusations to Zai so he can explain his side of the matter.
3. If what I say make sense and you see no defense for him then Vote him and let's end this day.
For myself, I want to either understand fully why Zai may not be scum or see him lynched.
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 07, 2009, 03:47:35 pm
I just read through once, and the only thing that stuck out was web's ridiculous level of hostility in his posts but not necessarily in his votes.
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 05:36:01 pm
ARE YOU SERIOUS?Afraid to talk?Go back and look. The only thing you can apparently do is say three words, so you have the capacity and the time to look.Explain again dork.You're voting for me because you lack the ability to look back and find out why I was voting fr him, despite the fact that you can go back and find the post where I vote for him?Explain why fully.What about it is suspicious? I too can quote things, but it takes a real analysis to make it mean a thing.You're voting him.
Also, you can quote things and they don't count as three words, huh?
Three words:
What a hypocrite.
So, maybe instead of being lazy, making up excuses, and providing no help, you could...
Oh, what's it called...
Hold on...
Tip of my tongue...
Oh right. Shoot yourself in the head.
Just leave.
Apparently I gained a second vote and started voting Dakarian. I don't remember doing this, so it must be an error in the vote count. I'll hold my Zai vote, he's very scummy, but Neruz's bandwagoning statement is simply unacceptable.GO
Webadict, refusing to rexplain yourself is scummy. Reexplain yourself or I'll vote you.
LOOK
FOR
YOURSELVES
I
AM
NOT
YOUR
MAID
YOU
HAVE
HANDS
OH
MY
GOD
GO
DIE!
TRY
LOOKING
BACK
A
FEW
PAGES
IS
THAT
SO
HARD
OR
DO
YOU
HAVE
NO
INTELLIGENCE
Just because you're a simpleton and severely mentally impaired doesn't mean you can't click back a FEW PAGES. And if it does, I'm surprised you made it to this page to begin with, let alone are capable of understanding me or anyone else and how on earth are you managing to form complete words?
Of course, no one will call you out on it, because you can only speak three words. Wanna know what? I'm going to make sure you die, one way or another.
And Mr.Person... you disgust me. I'm pretty sure you were present when I was GIVING the reasons why dakarian was scummy, and here you are pointing out that, in fact, I have not. Ask dakarian. He knows I've given reasons, and HE'S THE ONE I'M VOTING.
So, until you start participating (I don't care if he can only speak 3 words, he's not doing anything!), I'll unvote dakarian and vote SHAD0Wdump.
I don't care if it's an OMGUS. You're not giving any reasons for voting me, or at least any valid reasons, because the one you provided is clearly false. I don't care if you have a posting restriction, because you can still contribute otherwise, instead of by doing nothing. Heck, I don't even care if everyone thinks that your posting is okay.
Because your posting restriction is a load of crap.
Yeah, that's right. It's not real. You can post as much as you want. Yet you refuse to, because helping the town is contradictory to your nature. So, start posting. Tell everyone why you're refusing to help them. I know your restriction is fake, just like I know I gave real reasons, and like I know you can contribute, and like I know that you
A. R. E. N. 'T.
What's your counterargument? Wanna try to argue with me? Because I wouldn't suggest it. I would suggest posting coherently. And I would suggest doing so immediately.
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 05:38:51 pm
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 07, 2009, 05:42:25 pm
I'm going to go take a break or something then read over it, Neruz' scumminess is still fresh in my mind though. I don't suggest anyone else reading this as it's mostly incomprehensible and it's just feelings I got off of almost everyone's posts.
Spoiler: Not suitable for human consumption. (click to show/hide)
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 05:45:29 pm
ARE YOU SERIOUS?Don't insult, explain.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 07, 2009, 05:48:38 pm
Anyways, Neruz doesn't have enough votes yet.
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 05:51:58 pm
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 05:55:18 pm
Gonna take that route, huh?ARE YOU SERIOUS?Don't insult, explain.
Trying to still hide behind your made-up rules?
This is how you normally pay mafia, is it not? Making up fake rules to your role.
Maybe I should just post Ham Sandwich in every post.
You don't have a post restriction.
And I did explain. You just refuse to comprehend.
Oh lawdy, I laughed so hard at parts of that, AN. Particularly the part on Web.Haha... me too.
Post by: Eduren on November 07, 2009, 06:07:06 pm
Webadict: The super RAEG isn't helping your case. I fact, that seems to be the same stunt you pulled in Parallel. So if you are really are town, come down off of your high horse and actually work with us.
Org: Bandwagoning the bandwagoner?
Zai: You are being way too passive and have admitted to letting the rest of the town do the work.
PPE: Web, I'm now confused. Are you voting shadowdump because you don't believe his restriction, or because he is scum?
Post by: Org on November 07, 2009, 06:11:09 pm
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 06:12:48 pm
Being a hypocrite?Don't insult, explain.Trying to still hide
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 06:16:34 pm
I am going to grudgingly unvote cheeetar because he has appeared.I'm voting him because he's purposely not helping the town, because he doesn't have a posting restriction, which makes him scum.
Webadict: The super RAEG isn't helping your case. I fact, that seems to be the same stunt you pulled in Parallel. So if you are really are town, come down off of your high horse and actually work with us.
Org: Bandwagoning the bandwagoner?
Zai: You are being way too passive and have admitted to letting the rest of the town do the work.
PPE: Web, I'm now confused. Are you voting shadowdump because you don't believe his restriction, or because he is scum?
And you're basically saying that there is, in fact, no one scummier than me, so you will simply jump on the bandwagon without further finding scum, as opposed to the person you're voting for who is, in fact, pointing out the very things you just said were scummy.
How odd, don't you think? You're saying that the scumhunter is in fact scum. Why's that?
And I told you: I don't do Meta.
While everyone else might not agree...I think Web is a townie. Mainly for all the raeging. And he did that in P11 and he was a townie.I told you: I don't do Meta.
I can take your posts out of context too:Being a hypocrite?Don't insult, explain.Trying to still hide
I have the ability to speak more than three words at any given time yet refuse to do so.See, you can post a lot!
I'm not a hypocrite, but you are. You're voting for me because I supposedly didn't supply reasoning for voting for dakarian, which I DID, and yet you refuse to admit. So, continuing to be a hypocrite will get you nowhere and only make you look bad.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 06:18:55 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on November 07, 2009, 06:19:37 pm
SHOW ME THE REASONS.
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 06:23:09 pm
Post by: Rashilul on November 07, 2009, 06:24:22 pm
Post by: Rashilul on November 07, 2009, 06:25:07 pm
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 06:26:17 pm
COMPLETE THE BANDWAGON!!!1!
Just for public knowledge, whoever hammers is likely to be looked upon disdainfully tomorrow if/when Web turns up town.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 06:26:53 pm
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 06:28:09 pm
Unvote Mephansteras. Webadict. No, Webadict, insulting everyone will not help you get further in life. Sit down in the corner a while and calm down, then come back when you're willing to post reasons and defend yourself instead of calling people morons. Oh, you have posted reasons? Where. You have defended yourself? Where.Now you've done it.
SHOW ME THE REASONS.
WATCH THIS EVERYONE: I WENT BACK AND THIS TOOK ME FIVE WHOLE MINUTES TO BRING DOWN YOUR PATHETIC ARGUMENT:
Want something real?
lolololol.
You're funny to avoid an actual OMGUS. That, in itself, is scummy.
Weak derail is weak.
Now stop protecting Eduren. He's who I'm after now.
Or, at least, come up with something real instead of a vague non-accusation.
dakarian. That's something real, you stupid moron.
That's a vote. You're passive and unemotional.
Oh eduren is like that a lot. Which is funny because that's exactly what meta means. You seem to forget that meta is for both scum AND town tells.No, but I'm still a little confused here.
Who are you voting for and why?
Also, what do you think about Mephansteras?
I'm voting for Eduren. A quick prod has proven that he's heavy into Self Preservation. When I push you, you get bloodthirsty, though your method is rather meh. When I pushed him, even when he had a good reason, he backed down and said 'I was joking'.
Toonyman confirmed that, although Eduren can seem scummy when he's not, trying to save his own self is NOT a part of it. Thus his actions can't be acused by meta or traditional means.
Thus why I'm getting serious about him.
As for Meph...I noticed he's getting pushed hard. I'll have to do an analysis on him.
Thus why I like the way that RVS went. We've barely left it and I can already do an analysis on players ;D.
My problem with you is that you're not how you normally are, and you push me off by saying that just because you're not how you are doesn't mean you're scum. Sure, that could be true, but I really doubt it. Null tell this and null tell that. You of all people know that finding scum isn't all about tells. There's a certain amount of lying that goes on as scum, and that's what you are.
YOU.
ARE.
A.
LIAR.
I'm fairly certain that your pants would be on fire. You give off scumtells just like everyone else, but oh no, those can be explained and these can be explained. So, why not give people something? Or are you just going to subtlely hint at my scumminess as you've done so far. Go for weaklings and then once you've injected enough larvae into a stronger one they can all hatch and consume him from the inside. Nah, we're going to play this in a way that doesn't involve you doing that.
K, Patches?
That's why I'm voting you. If you're town, which is incredibly unlikely, you're simply sowing seeds of distrust throughout the entire town. If you're scum, you're being very obvious.
To me. I truly haven't gleaned how the others find scum without power roles.You seemed busy. I'll push you later for info.Whoah, I didn't know this had actually started. I just looked at the title and assumed we were still waiting. Anyway, Meph is putting out a few questions, which as I have seen in previous mafias e.g. B12 mafia, Meph asking questions is his scum tell.
I also find this:A bit strange, as he dosen't explain in which post or how his logic is off. He unvoted later and voted Shadow for having very little words in his posts, which seemed to me an obvious role restriction. He then went back to 'pressuring Neruz', with little explanation. He also hasn't really explained himself well, and hasn't posted as much as other people have.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Well, you're right, that vote didn't have any explanation behind it. I was busy at work and didn't have time for much. However, I did explain myself more later after I switched back from shadow after he explained himself. Neruz was bouncing all over the place with little or strange reasons for the votes. Hence my comment that his logic was suspect. It's also why I've been pressuring him.
Then he can get modkilled. What do I care? Even if he's Town, he's not helpful, so he can speak more than three words or he can leave.Wouldn't have to be if you did something, Mister Three Words.To me. I truly haven't gleaned how the others find scum without power roles.High and Mighty.
Post something more than three words and we'll talk.
He's claiming a post restriction. He can't post more than 3 words.@WebIt's funny. You're trying to reply to me in a way that I'll assume you're town.
I don't know Eduren's meta. Meanwhile, Toony disagrees: he says that self preservation ISN'T part of his meta. That's why I'm on him. I'll take your idea that he DOES act like this normally into consideration, but I want to hear more from him before I leave him alone.
I pushed you off because you didn't explain yourself, just cried out "SCUMMY!" I started actually talking to you once you brought up actual arguments.
Where did you get me saying that I don't have scumtells? I have reasons for what I do because..well.. I DO HAVE REASONS. When you ask or accuse me about them I will give those reasons. If they seem to fit ever so nicely into a package then there you go. Hate me for it or love me for it, but that's what I do.
You claim I'm lying... on what? That I'm not acting like myself? That you don't believe my arguments?
I suspect you. Yes, I DO suspect you. As such I'll push you. I don't have a second vote so a FOS will do: since it's brought this result I'm glad I left it like that, since Eduren needs a LOT more pressure than you do. Do I want you dead? No, not yet. I make THAT time very very clear and you aren't there yet. Your emotions provide a very nice shield so it's hard to crack you, whether you are town or scum. I want to say you cracked but if so you won't be readable till later. For now, I'll need to be content where you are.
As it is, I can tell you didn't really analyze me very well. How? You didn't know who I was voting for, even though the posts just before our little argument was all about Eduren and my vote hasn't wavered from him for a while. It's noteworthy, that's for sure.
You want to disrupt me. Sorry, I won't be disrupted. Tried it, saw a town die by it. I'll stick to what I do, thank you very much.Spoiler: As for Meph, Just did an anyl: (click to show/hide)
I don't get the attacks on him, except for the first vote and his reasons for it. His actions towards Shadow seem solid. His push on Nurez looks like a regular scumhunt. If he's scum, he's going to need a good deal more pressure if you want something to actually go off of. For now his nose is cleaner than most.
You're posting for my approval and not to actually provide content. That "analysis" you did was subpar for you. I mean come on. I've seen you do big pages on person's post. Not that I really care, but you basically SAID what he did and didn't explain what he did.
And that whole vote thing? Is THAT what you're really going to bring up to make me look suspicious? I mean, you're STILL trying to make me look suspicious! Why don't you just put a big list or something, instead of doing it steadily, like a real accuser.Hoo boy.Why are they suspicious?
So much to read but I think I'll start here:Well, the three other scum, Dakarian, Sir Bayer (Who I tried to get to post), and Zai, probably wouldn't appreciate me telling you that.[/joke]So look around, use what you know and can observe, and try to answer the question, please.Additionally, more seriously, tell me (enumerate) your favored scumbuddies and why. Limit to within game so no picking Pandarsenic.I haven't really played mafia on B12. Mostly on IRC or with my friends or on other forums. Searching my name will bring up a Mafiascum game, which is the first time I played and which I am thoroughly embarrassed about.
But seriously, those are the ones I'm suspicious of. Not really Zai though, he's just kind of a random place holder.
My ideal scum team...I have no idea, gotta read some other B12 mafia games first.
Unvote.Let's hear a reasoning, other than you feel like it, moron. All you're saying is that I'm scummy, and you're only applying it to a logic statement with no premises. Therefore, your statement is neither sound nor valid.And the question was?
Also. I find it funny how everybody is going after their own individual people and ignoring everyone else.
You think either me or Web is scum. That's a very, very scummy thing to say, and it's even worse that you didn't explain why you think that. So please, tell us.
1) Didn't say that either you or Web was scum, I said at least one of you (meaning both of you could be) was scum. 2) Not much reason behind it, actually. Can't recall why I said that. Been rather hyper today, if you couldn't tell. No longer suspicious of you at all though, M.P.
I now think at least one of Web and Meph is scum. Leaning more heavily on Web right now.
[PPE:] Yeah, Web's definitely scum.
Wow, let's see someone with real intelligence accuse me this time.
So, what about the other lurkers? Are they not suspicious as well?Hoo boy.Why are they suspicious?
So much to read but I think I'll start here:Well, the three other scum, Dakarian, Sir Bayer (Who I tried to get to post), and Zai, probably wouldn't appreciate me telling you that.[/joke]So look around, use what you know and can observe, and try to answer the question, please.Additionally, more seriously, tell me (enumerate) your favored scumbuddies and why. Limit to within game so no picking Pandarsenic.I haven't really played mafia on B12. Mostly on IRC or with my friends or on other forums. Searching my name will bring up a Mafiascum game, which is the first time I played and which I am thoroughly embarrassed about.
But seriously, those are the ones I'm suspicious of. Not really Zai though, he's just kind of a random place holder.
My ideal scum team...I have no idea, gotta read some other B12 mafia games first.
Sir Bayer is lurking (Or maybe has stuff to do) and Dakarian is just, as you said, scummy.
I think that I'll need to participate in the discussion a bit more before I can get any farther than that.
And what about dakarian is the most scummy?@RashilulMy analysis goes on what I think is off about your explanation. I feel that you are presenting to me and not the crowd. The crowd is we and you're only trying to make me make them believe you're town. That's why I don't like your posts.
Grounds for that scumteam?
@Neruz
mind quoting that so I know the context?
@Web
Going after someone for a post restriction is more of a waste of time than anything else.
I post to answer your accusations. If you don't like them, then bring more and new accusations.
Mephs analysis was based on what he posted. He went after Nurez for just about the entire time, with a small bit into Shadow. There's not much to attack him on so that's that.
The BIG analysis comes from several game days of posts (i.e. the Bay 12 analysis), a deeply scummy person (A few of my older ones), or involving just about everyone (Toony). I give what I have.
Now, a question: is your main attack on me based on Meta? You go on a lot about how you 'think' I should be acting.
And yes about Meph. There isn't a whole lot to go on.
But, the post restriction thing isn't crap. He's obviously not helpful, and likely his role is just a bunch of crap. I'm pretty sure he can speak just fine, and he's only doing it to throw us off. And if he can't his role can't really be considered helpful, since we're playing a game of analyzation and not of "be a stupid a moron."... Did you really just say that someone else will explain your vote? Do you have no will? No thought? No soul? Because you're certainly not helpful to your cause. And you ARE trying to convince EVERYONE that the person you're voting for is scum. This isn't random voting if you say I'm scummy but don't say why, and you've certainly made it clear you're not going to say a why, because odds are you don't have a why, now do you? This is likely a test to see who will join you and who will flake. How that's helpful is debatable, but I honestly have better things to deal with than you.Let's hear a reasoning, other than you feel like it, moron. All you're saying is that I'm scummy, and you're only applying it to a logic statement with no premises. Therefore, your statement is neither sound nor valid.
Wow, let's see someone with real intelligence accuse me this time.
1) I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't be so condescending, Your Royal Highness. 2) I'm not trying to convince anybody here right now, and therefore do not need to explain my vote. I'll leave that to Dak, who I think will be much more persuasive. If he starts being scummy again, votes shall change.
At least one of the following is scum: Web, Meph, and Dak. Suspicions in that order right now.
And I never asked you to call me Highness. I won't treat you like a moron if you didn't, ya know, act like one. So, perhaps instead of being a whiney little baby, try stepping up and doing proper analyzing, instead of this WIFOM crap of "Duuuuuuuuh, I think at least one of the town is scum. Duuuuuuh." Yeah, because that's helpful to everyone. Give reasons why.
Webadict's playing baddly...LOL.
Post by: Eduren on November 07, 2009, 06:28:48 pm
I am going to grudgingly unvote cheeetar because he has appeared.I'm voting him because he's purposely not helping the town, because he doesn't have a posting restriction, which makes him scum.
Webadict: The super RAEG isn't helping your case. I fact, that seems to be the same stunt you pulled in Parallel. So if you are really are town, come down off of your high horse and actually work with us.
Org: Bandwagoning the bandwagoner?
Zai: You are being way too passive and have admitted to letting the rest of the town do the work.
PPE: Web, I'm now confused. Are you voting shadowdump because you don't believe his restriction, or because he is scum?
And you're basically saying that there is, in fact, no one scummier than me, so you will simply jump on the bandwagon without further finding scum, as opposed to the person you're voting for who is, in fact, pointing out the very things you just said were scummy.
How odd, don't you think? You're saying that the scumhunter is in fact scum. Why's that?
And I told you: I don't do Meta.
You don't do meta? Then what is this?
This is how you normally pay mafia, is it not? Making up fake rules to your role.
I can agree that he is not being helpful, but that does not automatically mean that he is lying about his restriction.
Post by: Rashilul on November 07, 2009, 06:28:59 pm
Reasonable inquiry.
Just for public knowledge, whoever hammers is likely to be looked upon disdainfully tomorrow if/when Web turns up town.
I know, that's why it's such a grave decision.
Pre-post edit: Oh god, scum spam.
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 06:30:00 pm
I might as well roleclaim before someone kills me, right?COMPLETE THE BANDWAGON!!!1!
Just for public knowledge, whoever hammers is likely to be looked upon disdainfully tomorrow if/when Web turns up town.
He is lying. I know he is.I am going to grudgingly unvote cheeetar because he has appeared.I'm voting him because he's purposely not helping the town, because he doesn't have a posting restriction, which makes him scum.
Webadict: The super RAEG isn't helping your case. I fact, that seems to be the same stunt you pulled in Parallel. So if you are really are town, come down off of your high horse and actually work with us.
Org: Bandwagoning the bandwagoner?
Zai: You are being way too passive and have admitted to letting the rest of the town do the work.
PPE: Web, I'm now confused. Are you voting shadowdump because you don't believe his restriction, or because he is scum?
And you're basically saying that there is, in fact, no one scummier than me, so you will simply jump on the bandwagon without further finding scum, as opposed to the person you're voting for who is, in fact, pointing out the very things you just said were scummy.
How odd, don't you think? You're saying that the scumhunter is in fact scum. Why's that?
And I told you: I don't do Meta.
You don't do meta? Then what is this?This is how you normally pay mafia, is it not? Making up fake rules to your role.
I can agree that he is not being helpful, but that does not automatically mean that he is lying about his restriction.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 06:33:41 pm
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 06:36:26 pm
Finally you baby.And yet you refuse to unvote.
So, instead of going back, looking, and making sure, you have the ability to prattle on with whatever whimsical accusation you want, and you know what?
Nobody will ever notice, because you're active lurking.
Somehow, with fake evidence and what-not, everyone will automatically assume I'm scum, which is completely absurd, because I'd never want this much attention as scum, and I'm likely to get hit by any respectable inspection role.
So, maybe people need to think with logic, instead of this massive bandwagon everyone's got going based on, what do you know, fake accusations and false meta that is actually disproven in Paranormal 11.
Nice try.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 07, 2009, 06:41:57 pm
So, Web, your argument on Dakarian is that he talked to you instead of the crowd? That's stupid as hell, of COURSE he's going to talk to you, YOU ASKED HIM THE QUESTIONS! Nobody else asked him anything, why would he talk to them? I think I see why you didn't want to resay it, it's one of the stupidest arguments I've heard in awhile.
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 06:42:38 pm
You don't do meta? Then what is this?This is how you normally pay mafia, is it not? Making up fake rules to your role.
That is him commenting on someone else's meta. Durdudur. He said he himself doesn't have meta-tells.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 07, 2009, 06:42:49 pm
Zai, you've only proven yourself scum with that post.
So, Web, your argument on Dakarian is that he talked to you instead of the crowd? That's stupid as hell, of COURSE he's going to talk to you, YOU ASKED HIM THE QUESTIONS! Nobody else asked him anything, why would he talk to them? I think I see why you didn't want to resay it, it's one of the stupidest arguments I've heard in awhile.
For the record, I would vote Webadict, but I don't know how many votes he has. Besides, Zai is still scum.
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 06:44:30 pm
Zai, you've only proven yourself scum with that post.No, I'm saying that he was only trying to prove himself to me so that I will indeed try to say he's town to the town. It's not a stupid argument and only stupid people would think so.
So, Web, your argument on Dakarian is that he talked to you instead of the crowd? That's stupid as hell, of COURSE he's going to talk to you, YOU ASKED HIM THE QUESTIONS! Nobody else asked him anything, why would he talk to them? I think I see why you didn't want to resay it, it's one of the stupidest arguments I've heard in awhile.
FINALLY! I was starting to believe that no one would understand a word of what I said.You don't do meta? Then what is this?This is how you normally pay mafia, is it not? Making up fake rules to your role.
That is him commenting on someone else's meta. Durdudur. He said he himself doesn't have meta-tells.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 07, 2009, 06:49:16 pm
Zai, you've only proven yourself scum with that post.No, I'm saying that he was only trying to prove himself to me so that I will indeed try to say he's town to the town. It's not a stupid argument and only stupid people would think so.
So, Web, your argument on Dakarian is that he talked to you instead of the crowd? That's stupid as hell, of COURSE he's going to talk to you, YOU ASKED HIM THE QUESTIONS! Nobody else asked him anything, why would he talk to them? I think I see why you didn't want to resay it, it's one of the stupidest arguments I've heard in awhile.
That's a null tell, a townie would try and convince you he's a townie, as would a mafia member. Now, if he tried to WIFOM you, or used scum logic, or he tried really, really, really hard, or he was super-passive or lurky, then yes, he would be scum. But trying to convince you he's town is more of a null tell. It's a great thing to question him about, but it's not enough to say he's scum.
Post by: Eduren on November 07, 2009, 06:52:02 pm
Well I'm sorry that I misunderstood.FINALLY! I was starting to believe that no one would understand a word of what I said.You don't do meta? Then what is this?This is how you normally pay mafia, is it not? Making up fake rules to your role.
That is him commenting on someone else's meta. Durdudur. He said he himself doesn't have meta-tells.
Nonetheless, somebody claiming that they have no meta-tells is like somebody saying that they are "just a little buzzed"; you are not exactly an impartial observer.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 07, 2009, 06:54:36 pm
Unvote Mephansteras. Webadict. No, Webadict, insulting everyone will not help you get further in life. Sit down in the corner a while and calm down, then come back when you're willing to post reasons and defend yourself instead of calling people morons. Oh, you have posted reasons? Where. You have defended yourself? Where.Now you've done it.
SHOW ME THE REASONS.
WATCH THIS EVERYONE: I WENT BACK AND THIS TOOK ME FIVE WHOLE MINUTES TO BRING DOWN YOUR PATHETIC ARGUMENT:Want something real?
lolololol.
You're funny to avoid an actual OMGUS. That, in itself, is scummy.
Weak derail is weak.
Now stop protecting Eduren. He's who I'm after now.
Or, at least, come up with something real instead of a vague non-accusation.
dakarian. That's something real, you stupid moron.
That's a vote. You're passive and unemotional.Oh eduren is like that a lot. Which is funny because that's exactly what meta means. You seem to forget that meta is for both scum AND town tells.No, but I'm still a little confused here.
Who are you voting for and why?
Also, what do you think about Mephansteras?
I'm voting for Eduren. A quick prod has proven that he's heavy into Self Preservation. When I push you, you get bloodthirsty, though your method is rather meh. When I pushed him, even when he had a good reason, he backed down and said 'I was joking'.
Toonyman confirmed that, although Eduren can seem scummy when he's not, trying to save his own self is NOT a part of it. Thus his actions can't be acused by meta or traditional means.
Thus why I'm getting serious about him.
As for Meph...I noticed he's getting pushed hard. I'll have to do an analysis on him.
Thus why I like the way that RVS went. We've barely left it and I can already do an analysis on players ;D.
My problem with you is that you're not how you normally are, and you push me off by saying that just because you're not how you are doesn't mean you're scum. Sure, that could be true, but I really doubt it. Null tell this and null tell that. You of all people know that finding scum isn't all about tells. There's a certain amount of lying that goes on as scum, and that's what you are.
YOU.
ARE.
A.
LIAR.
I'm fairly certain that your pants would be on fire. You give off scumtells just like everyone else, but oh no, those can be explained and these can be explained. So, why not give people something? Or are you just going to subtlely hint at my scumminess as you've done so far. Go for weaklings and then once you've injected enough larvae into a stronger one they can all hatch and consume him from the inside. Nah, we're going to play this in a way that doesn't involve you doing that.
K, Patches?
That's why I'm voting you. If you're town, which is incredibly unlikely, you're simply sowing seeds of distrust throughout the entire town. If you're scum, you're being very obvious.
To me. I truly haven't gleaned how the others find scum without power roles.You seemed busy. I'll push you later for info.Whoah, I didn't know this had actually started. I just looked at the title and assumed we were still waiting. Anyway, Meph is putting out a few questions, which as I have seen in previous mafias e.g. B12 mafia, Meph asking questions is his scum tell.
I also find this:A bit strange, as he dosen't explain in which post or how his logic is off. He unvoted later and voted Shadow for having very little words in his posts, which seemed to me an obvious role restriction. He then went back to 'pressuring Neruz', with little explanation. He also hasn't really explained himself well, and hasn't posted as much as other people have.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Well, you're right, that vote didn't have any explanation behind it. I was busy at work and didn't have time for much. However, I did explain myself more later after I switched back from shadow after he explained himself. Neruz was bouncing all over the place with little or strange reasons for the votes. Hence my comment that his logic was suspect. It's also why I've been pressuring him.Then he can get modkilled. What do I care? Even if he's Town, he's not helpful, so he can speak more than three words or he can leave.Wouldn't have to be if you did something, Mister Three Words.To me. I truly haven't gleaned how the others find scum without power roles.High and Mighty.
Post something more than three words and we'll talk.
He's claiming a post restriction. He can't post more than 3 words.@WebIt's funny. You're trying to reply to me in a way that I'll assume you're town.
I don't know Eduren's meta. Meanwhile, Toony disagrees: he says that self preservation ISN'T part of his meta. That's why I'm on him. I'll take your idea that he DOES act like this normally into consideration, but I want to hear more from him before I leave him alone.
I pushed you off because you didn't explain yourself, just cried out "SCUMMY!" I started actually talking to you once you brought up actual arguments.
Where did you get me saying that I don't have scumtells? I have reasons for what I do because..well.. I DO HAVE REASONS. When you ask or accuse me about them I will give those reasons. If they seem to fit ever so nicely into a package then there you go. Hate me for it or love me for it, but that's what I do.
You claim I'm lying... on what? That I'm not acting like myself? That you don't believe my arguments?
I suspect you. Yes, I DO suspect you. As such I'll push you. I don't have a second vote so a FOS will do: since it's brought this result I'm glad I left it like that, since Eduren needs a LOT more pressure than you do. Do I want you dead? No, not yet. I make THAT time very very clear and you aren't there yet. Your emotions provide a very nice shield so it's hard to crack you, whether you are town or scum. I want to say you cracked but if so you won't be readable till later. For now, I'll need to be content where you are.
As it is, I can tell you didn't really analyze me very well. How? You didn't know who I was voting for, even though the posts just before our little argument was all about Eduren and my vote hasn't wavered from him for a while. It's noteworthy, that's for sure.
You want to disrupt me. Sorry, I won't be disrupted. Tried it, saw a town die by it. I'll stick to what I do, thank you very much.Spoiler: As for Meph, Just did an anyl: (click to show/hide)
I don't get the attacks on him, except for the first vote and his reasons for it. His actions towards Shadow seem solid. His push on Nurez looks like a regular scumhunt. If he's scum, he's going to need a good deal more pressure if you want something to actually go off of. For now his nose is cleaner than most.
You're posting for my approval and not to actually provide content. That "analysis" you did was subpar for you. I mean come on. I've seen you do big pages on person's post. Not that I really care, but you basically SAID what he did and didn't explain what he did.
And that whole vote thing? Is THAT what you're really going to bring up to make me look suspicious? I mean, you're STILL trying to make me look suspicious! Why don't you just put a big list or something, instead of doing it steadily, like a real accuser.Hoo boy.Why are they suspicious?
So much to read but I think I'll start here:Well, the three other scum, Dakarian, Sir Bayer (Who I tried to get to post), and Zai, probably wouldn't appreciate me telling you that.[/joke]So look around, use what you know and can observe, and try to answer the question, please.Additionally, more seriously, tell me (enumerate) your favored scumbuddies and why. Limit to within game so no picking Pandarsenic.I haven't really played mafia on B12. Mostly on IRC or with my friends or on other forums. Searching my name will bring up a Mafiascum game, which is the first time I played and which I am thoroughly embarrassed about.
But seriously, those are the ones I'm suspicious of. Not really Zai though, he's just kind of a random place holder.
My ideal scum team...I have no idea, gotta read some other B12 mafia games first.Unvote.Let's hear a reasoning, other than you feel like it, moron. All you're saying is that I'm scummy, and you're only applying it to a logic statement with no premises. Therefore, your statement is neither sound nor valid.And the question was?
Also. I find it funny how everybody is going after their own individual people and ignoring everyone else.
You think either me or Web is scum. That's a very, very scummy thing to say, and it's even worse that you didn't explain why you think that. So please, tell us.
1) Didn't say that either you or Web was scum, I said at least one of you (meaning both of you could be) was scum. 2) Not much reason behind it, actually. Can't recall why I said that. Been rather hyper today, if you couldn't tell. No longer suspicious of you at all though, M.P.
I now think at least one of Web and Meph is scum. Leaning more heavily on Web right now.
[PPE:] Yeah, Web's definitely scum.
Wow, let's see someone with real intelligence accuse me this time.So, what about the other lurkers? Are they not suspicious as well?Hoo boy.Why are they suspicious?
So much to read but I think I'll start here:Well, the three other scum, Dakarian, Sir Bayer (Who I tried to get to post), and Zai, probably wouldn't appreciate me telling you that.[/joke]So look around, use what you know and can observe, and try to answer the question, please.Additionally, more seriously, tell me (enumerate) your favored scumbuddies and why. Limit to within game so no picking Pandarsenic.I haven't really played mafia on B12. Mostly on IRC or with my friends or on other forums. Searching my name will bring up a Mafiascum game, which is the first time I played and which I am thoroughly embarrassed about.
But seriously, those are the ones I'm suspicious of. Not really Zai though, he's just kind of a random place holder.
My ideal scum team...I have no idea, gotta read some other B12 mafia games first.
Sir Bayer is lurking (Or maybe has stuff to do) and Dakarian is just, as you said, scummy.
I think that I'll need to participate in the discussion a bit more before I can get any farther than that.
And what about dakarian is the most scummy?@RashilulMy analysis goes on what I think is off about your explanation. I feel that you are presenting to me and not the crowd. The crowd is we and you're only trying to make me make them believe you're town. That's why I don't like your posts.
Grounds for that scumteam?
@Neruz
mind quoting that so I know the context?
@Web
Going after someone for a post restriction is more of a waste of time than anything else.
I post to answer your accusations. If you don't like them, then bring more and new accusations.
Mephs analysis was based on what he posted. He went after Nurez for just about the entire time, with a small bit into Shadow. There's not much to attack him on so that's that.
The BIG analysis comes from several game days of posts (i.e. the Bay 12 analysis), a deeply scummy person (A few of my older ones), or involving just about everyone (Toony). I give what I have.
Now, a question: is your main attack on me based on Meta? You go on a lot about how you 'think' I should be acting.
And yes about Meph. There isn't a whole lot to go on.
But, the post restriction thing isn't crap. He's obviously not helpful, and likely his role is just a bunch of crap. I'm pretty sure he can speak just fine, and he's only doing it to throw us off. And if he can't his role can't really be considered helpful, since we're playing a game of analyzation and not of "be a stupid a moron."... Did you really just say that someone else will explain your vote? Do you have no will? No thought? No soul? Because you're certainly not helpful to your cause. And you ARE trying to convince EVERYONE that the person you're voting for is scum. This isn't random voting if you say I'm scummy but don't say why, and you've certainly made it clear you're not going to say a why, because odds are you don't have a why, now do you? This is likely a test to see who will join you and who will flake. How that's helpful is debatable, but I honestly have better things to deal with than you.Let's hear a reasoning, other than you feel like it, moron. All you're saying is that I'm scummy, and you're only applying it to a logic statement with no premises. Therefore, your statement is neither sound nor valid.
Wow, let's see someone with real intelligence accuse me this time.
1) I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't be so condescending, Your Royal Highness. 2) I'm not trying to convince anybody here right now, and therefore do not need to explain my vote. I'll leave that to Dak, who I think will be much more persuasive. If he starts being scummy again, votes shall change.
At least one of the following is scum: Web, Meph, and Dak. Suspicions in that order right now.
And I never asked you to call me Highness. I won't treat you like a moron if you didn't, ya know, act like one. So, perhaps instead of being a whiney little baby, try stepping up and doing proper analyzing, instead of this WIFOM crap of "Duuuuuuuuh, I think at least one of the town is scum. Duuuuuuh." Yeah, because that's helpful to everyone. Give reasons why.Webadict's playing baddly...LOL.
Oh dear god. Somehow, I lost my entire fucking response to this thing. This thing, this thing here. It's bullshit. You said openly that you couldn't care less if Shadow was town and you lynched him, because he was useless despite the fact that his role restriction wears off tomorrow. You call people morons and disregard their posts because they suspect you. You vote people for appearing TOO TOWN.
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 06:55:43 pm
Post by: Rashilul on November 07, 2009, 06:57:29 pm
Spoiler: SPOILERS (click to show/hide)
Post by: Eduren on November 07, 2009, 06:58:04 pm
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 06:59:44 pm
It's not a null tell to me. He was also being passive as well, or do you only skim the argument too? Passive, anti-OMGUS, and unemotional. There isn't a single reason. There's a multitude.Zai, you've only proven yourself scum with that post.No, I'm saying that he was only trying to prove himself to me so that I will indeed try to say he's town to the town. It's not a stupid argument and only stupid people would think so.
So, Web, your argument on Dakarian is that he talked to you instead of the crowd? That's stupid as hell, of COURSE he's going to talk to you, YOU ASKED HIM THE QUESTIONS! Nobody else asked him anything, why would he talk to them? I think I see why you didn't want to resay it, it's one of the stupidest arguments I've heard in awhile.
That's a null tell, a townie would try and convince you he's a townie, as would a mafia member. Now, if he tried to WIFOM you, or used scum logic, or he tried really, really, really hard, or he was super-passive or lurky, then yes, he would be scum. But trying to convince you he's town is more of a null tell. It's a great thing to question him about, but it's not enough to say he's scum.
Everyone that's voting for me right now: They have no real reason to vote me. Do you not condemn them too? I have proven myself against accusations and yet they are equally as scummy, and yet I am only to blame. There hasn't been a single scum found this entire RVS, and we're going in the biggest circles I've ever seen.
Well, since I'm likely to die by the next passing moron, I'm Pandarsenic. I'm basically a one-shot ultra-cop and I get to have anyone's role PM I want. So, I'll probably die tonight anyway now, but I'd really enjoy being able to say who's scum before I die, so if you plan to hammer, give me some notice.
No, I'm saying that the Meta tells they're using are completely false. I'll insult them all as either scum or town, so they should probably try something better, instead of being whiney babies.Well I'm sorry that I misunderstood.FINALLY! I was starting to believe that no one would understand a word of what I said.You don't do meta? Then what is this?This is how you normally pay mafia, is it not? Making up fake rules to your role.
That is him commenting on someone else's meta. Durdudur. He said he himself doesn't have meta-tells.
Nonetheless, somebody claiming that they have no meta-tells is like somebody saying that they are "just a little buzzed"; you are not exactly an impartial observer.
@Cheeetar: Uh huh, let's piggyback a little more on other people's arguments why don't we?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 07, 2009, 07:00:53 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on November 07, 2009, 07:01:39 pm
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 07:04:25 pm
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 07:05:14 pm
"Oh, I'm not going to defend myself from Cheeetar. I'm going to brush him aside, because clearly he's scum stealing other peoples arguments. I won't say anything else about it from now."Because you have no real argument.
He wasn't appearing too town. There's a difference. He's trying to APPEAR town, you ignorant slut. He was giving null content until that point. My God...
Oh, and I'm robocop so hey you guys protect me this night, and don't hammer me.No, feel free to do so. I'm telling you my role now in case you all don't care anyhow. I'd rather claim while I can instead of not doing so, because some of us know that lynching a town member is actually CONTRARY to the town's goal of lynching the mafia.
What the fuck, Cheeetar? "Protect and don't hammer" you? Is anyone's vote even on you? Overly self-preservationist because of nothing. Unvote SHAD0Wdump. Vote Cheeetar.He's insulting me.
Post by: Rashilul on November 07, 2009, 07:06:28 pm
Quote from: webadict
I'm Pandarsenic. I'm basically a one-shot ultra-cop and I get to have anyone's role PM I want.Calling Jester probably could have been more effective.
Post by: Eduren on November 07, 2009, 07:07:07 pm
Claiming in a few minutes.
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 07:08:33 pm
Claiming in a few minutes.
Why does everyone feel a need to claim?
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 07:08:57 pm
Why should I?Finally you baby.And yet you refuse to unvote.
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 07:09:31 pm
Why should I?Finally you baby.And yet you refuse to unvote.
Because he provided all of his arguments.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 07:10:16 pm
And whined. alot.Why should I?Finally you baby.And yet you refuse to unvote.
Because he provided all of his arguments.
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 07:11:59 pm
Only if I were a Jester, because then everyone would say, "Yeah Right!" and lynch me.Quote from: webadictI'm Pandarsenic. I'm basically a one-shot ultra-cop and I get to have anyone's role PM I want.Calling Jester probably could have been more effective.
Because I just disproved your entire reasoning for voting for me!Why should I?Finally you baby.And yet you refuse to unvote.
Also, quit using three words. I KNOW YOU CAN SPEAK JUST FINE.
So you admit that your vote is based off faulty reasoning. Fair enough. Hopefully someone will remember that tomorrow and watch you die.And whined. alot.Why should I?Finally you baby.And yet you refuse to unvote.
Because he provided all of his arguments.
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 07:13:22 pm
So you admit that your vote is based off faulty reasoning. Fair enough. Hopefully someone will remember that tomorrow and watch you die.
I will always remember.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 07:14:10 pm
So you admit that your vote is based off faulty reasoning.New reason.
I will always remember.Next.
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 07:14:42 pm
Post by: Org on November 07, 2009, 07:15:06 pm
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 07:15:30 pm
What is this new reason?So you admit that your vote is based off faulty reasoning.New reason.I will always remember.Next.
Also, you can stop anytime. I know it's a lie.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 07:15:52 pm
Next?Your next, buddy.
Post by: Rashilul on November 07, 2009, 07:16:03 pm
Only if I were a Jester, because then everyone would say, "Yeah Right!" and lynch me.Quote from: webadictI'm Pandarsenic. I'm basically a one-shot ultra-cop and I get to have anyone's role PM I want.Calling Jester probably could have been more effective.
The difference being...?
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 07:17:21 pm
Next?Your next, buddy.
Thanks, friend.
Post by: Eduren on November 07, 2009, 07:17:25 pm
I have already blocked web's lynch. I propose that we still lynch him today in order to confirm me.
So, Webadict
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 07:18:23 pm
What is this new reason?All too whiny.
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 07:18:45 pm
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 07:19:41 pm
Thanks, friend.Buddy to Webadict.
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 07:21:06 pm
I'm not lying.Only if I were a Jester, because then everyone would say, "Yeah Right!" and lynch me.Quote from: webadictI'm Pandarsenic. I'm basically a one-shot ultra-cop and I get to have anyone's role PM I want.Calling Jester probably could have been more effective.
The difference being...?
I can confirm myself by stopping the lynch of anybody only one time. Since I have never had this role, I am going to follow what Toony did in DFMafia.I suppose the only way to confirm that is to lynch me then, eh?
I have already blocked web's lynch. I propose that we still lynch him today in order to confirm me.
So, Webadict
I'd still like to say who I believe is scum, in case your power is a dud.
Bad reason is bad. That's a terrible reason, indeed.What is this new reason?All too whiny.
Unless I'm dead and it proves me town, moron.Thanks, friend.Buddy to Webadict.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 07:23:48 pm
You held back.Bad reason is bad. That's a terrible reason, indeed.What is this new reason?All too whiny.
Post by: Org on November 07, 2009, 07:25:10 pm
Post by: Rashilul on November 07, 2009, 07:25:48 pm
Quote
[Day 1, Quit Complaining]
Pandar is not amused by whining.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 07:26:22 pm
I can confirm myself by stopping the lynch of anybody only one time. Since I have never had this role, I am going to follow what Toony did in DFMafia.Seriously, don't.
I have already blocked web's lynch. I propose that we still lynch him today in order to confirm me.
So, Webadict
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 07:27:12 pm
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 07:28:49 pm
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 07:29:27 pm
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 07:30:18 pm
Do not NK Web or do?*rolls eyes*
Post by: Rashilul on November 07, 2009, 07:30:32 pm
Nightkill web.Translation: KILL KILL KILL
Post by: Eduren on November 07, 2009, 07:31:03 pm
Why would we need to confirm you? "Confirming" you doesn't give us a confirmed townie. It just confirms your role, so...Dammit. I knew I'd screw this up.
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 07:32:33 pm
I'm glad you're trying to provoke a response. Now, tomorrow, if you don't give me a detailed response about why you couldn't help out before, used faulty logic to vote for me, and are active lurking, I will get you modkilled.You held back.Bad reason is bad. That's a terrible reason, indeed.What is this new reason?All too whiny.
Yeah, it'll kill me, but it'll be oh so worth it to make you gone.
Anyhow, like I said:
ExKirby for being as vague as possible.
Rahilul, for being passive, active lurking, and bandwagonning.
Neruz, for the ol' bandwagonning bandwagon.
SHAD0Wdump, for using a fake post restriction and refusing to let up.
The rest of the town for basically lurking.
Do it.Nightkill web.Translation: KILL KILL KILL
The only problem with this is that it's basically No Lynching, which doesn't do a whole lot except confrm that you can block my lynch.Why would we need to confirm you? "Confirming" you doesn't give us a confirmed townie. It just confirms your role, so...Dammit. I knew I'd screw this up.
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 07:34:53 pm
Do not NK Web or do?*rolls eyes*
If you'll notice (instead of disregarding everything), before the post where you said NK Web, I said "Don't what" because in the post before that you said 'seriously don't'? Comprende, Monsieur Incompetente?
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 07:36:29 pm
See what I mean?Do not NK Web or do?*rolls eyes*
If you'll notice (instead of disregarding everything), before the post where you said NK Web, I said "Don't what" because in the post before that you said 'seriously don't'? Comprende, Monsieur Incompetente?
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 07:38:20 pm
Why would we need to confirm you? "Confirming" you doesn't give us a confirmed townie. It just confirms your role, so...Dammit. I knew I'd screw this up.
So you're going to keep your vote on Web anyway, resulting in a no lynch if the hammer comes? Makes sense. Or were you lying about your role and/or using that role?
[PPE:] Oui, Senior Web.
Post by: Eduren on November 07, 2009, 07:38:47 pm
Yes, but I falsely assumed that it would confirm my townieness.The only problem with this is that it's basically No Lynching, which doesn't do a whole lot except confrm that you can block my lynch.Why would we need to confirm you? "Confirming" you doesn't give us a confirmed townie. It just confirms your role, so...Dammit. I knew I'd screw this up.
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 07:39:35 pm
Yes, but I falsely assumed that it would confirm my townieness.The only problem with this is that it's basically No Lynching, which doesn't do a whole lot except confrm that you can block my lynch.Why would we need to confirm you? "Confirming" you doesn't give us a confirmed townie. It just confirms your role, so...Dammit. I knew I'd screw this up.
...Yeah...
So you unvoting or wanting a no lynch?
Post by: Eduren on November 07, 2009, 07:41:50 pm
I guess I'll Unvote web, seeing as I screwed up.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 07, 2009, 07:42:20 pm
Unvote Webadict.
I'll be back in a minute. Webadict IS NOT SCUM.
FAKE-EDIT:
And of course. Whatever.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 07:43:38 pm
Webadict IS NOT SCUM.Interesting...
Unvote Webadict
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 07:44:06 pm
Ugh...
I guess I'll Unvote web, seeing as I screwed up.
Eh, don't be too hard on yourself. Just don't try and rush things in the future. Rushing things leads to more mistakes.
[PPE:] I'm looking forward to the logic behind the sudden revelation that Web is town, TM.
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 07:44:21 pm
Woah WOAH OWHA.... What happened to you?
Unvote Webadict.
I'll be back in a minute. Webadict IS NOT SCUM.
FAKE-EDIT:
And of course. Whatever.
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 07:45:06 pm
INSTANT UNVOTE WHEN SOMEONE ELSE TELLS HIM I'M NOT SCUM!Webadict IS NOT SCUM.Interesting...
Unvote Webadict
That's really scummy.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 07:45:50 pm
Just for now...INSTANT UNVOTE WHEN SOMEONE ELSE TELLS HIM I'M NOT SCUM!Webadict IS NOT SCUM.Interesting...
Unvote Webadict
That's really scummy.
Post by: Org on November 07, 2009, 07:47:15 pm
Yes, same here.Ugh...
I guess I'll Unvote web, seeing as I screwed up.
Eh, don't be too hard on yourself. Just don't try and rush things in the future. Rushing things leads to more mistakes.
[PPE:] I'm looking forward to the logic behind the sudden revelation that Web is town, TM.
Yeah, it is a bit quick to be jumping off just because Toony, OF ALL PEOPLE, says something.INSTANT UNVOTE WHEN SOMEONE ELSE TELLS HIM I'M NOT SCUM!Webadict IS NOT SCUM.Interesting...
Unvote Webadict
Post by: Cheeetar on November 07, 2009, 07:52:33 pm
you ignorant slutFuck you, you prick.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 07:53:36 pm
Want it back?Yeah, it is a bit quick to be jumping off just because Toony, OF ALL PEOPLE, says something.INSTANT UNVOTE WHEN SOMEONE ELSE TELLS HIM I'M NOT SCUM!Webadict IS NOT SCUM.Interesting...
Unvote Webadict
Post by: ToonyMan on November 07, 2009, 07:57:28 pm
Guys, Webadict is NOT scum. No way in hell is he SCUM now. You are an idiot or scum to think so.
Let's start with Zai, shall we? He's being too paranoid, WAY too paranoid. Cheeetar (I'm not sure of his alignment) was mocking Webadict with the role-claim. He said he was a cop dude and you totally shouldn't lynch him and you should give him protection tonight. ANYBODY that was atleast a little town would have saw that. Zai did not, infact...he did this:
What the fuck, Cheeetar? "Protect and don't hammer" you? Is anyone's vote even on you? Overly self-preservationist because of nothing. Unvote SHAD0Wdump. Vote Cheeetar.What is this! WHIS IS THIS? Overly-paranoid SCUM? SCUM SCUM SUCM.
Why did you over-react so much to this Zai?
Now Eduren.
I can confirm myself by stopping the lynch of anybody only one time. Since I have never had this role, I am going to follow what Toony did in DFMafia.Wut? Is this suppose to be a joke? HOW DOES THIS SHOW YOUR ALIGNMENT? Answer? IT DOESN'T. Stop being scummy. Don't try to confirm yourself scum-bucket. THIS WOULDN'T WORK ANYWAY.
I have already blocked web's lynch. I propose that we still lynch him today in order to confirm me.
So, Webadict
Webadict is town. HE IS CALLING YOU A MORON FOR A REASON. Remember Parallel Mafia? He was ever so nice. HE WAS SCUM. Got that? Remember Paranormal 11? He was incredibly angry, HE WAS TOWN. Got that? ALRIGHT.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 07, 2009, 07:57:54 pm
you ignorant slutFuck you, you prick.
Now now.
Post by: Org on November 07, 2009, 07:59:07 pm
Hey guys, and by guys, I mean Webadict, lets try to act a bit civil here, this isnt a brothel. This is the internet.>:I
STOP THE MADNESS
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 07:59:37 pm
Now why are you voting me, again? Let's hear it.you ignorant slutFuck you, you prick.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 07, 2009, 08:00:13 pm
Hey guys, and by guys, I mean Webadict, lets try to act a bit civil here, this isnt a brothel. This is the internet.>:I
STOP THE MADNESS
Shut up Org.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 08:00:49 pm
Movie time.
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 08:01:54 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 07, 2009, 08:03:48 pm
How exactly does that make me paranoid, TM?
You weren't seeing clear like town would.
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 08:06:33 pm
How exactly does that make me paranoid, TM?
You weren't seeing clear like town would.
...Do you not know who I am? Since when did I start 'seeing clearly'?
Post by: Rashilul on November 07, 2009, 08:07:45 pm
Webadict, crafty little bugger he is, is probably doing this as scum for exactly the reason Toony spoke of.
Webadict townie=mean
Webadict scum=nice
Webadict scum in this game=mean
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 08:08:40 pm
I agree that Zai is scummy, he is also being great buds with webadict.
Webadict, crafty little bugger he is, is probably doing this as scum for exactly the reason Toony spoke of.
Webadict townie=mean
Webadict scum=nice
Webadict scum in this game=mean
...Have you not been paying attention? WEB CANNOT BE LYNCHED NOW, THANKS TO EDUREN
Post by: Eduren on November 07, 2009, 08:09:27 pm
Now Eduren.I screwed up, okay? I admitted it. I had confused an open setup with a closed setup.I can confirm myself by stopping the lynch of anybody only one time. Since I have never had this role, I am going to follow what Toony did in DFMafia.Wut? Is this suppose to be a joke? HOW DOES THIS SHOW YOUR ALIGNMENT? Answer? IT DOESN'T. Stop being scummy. Don't try to confirm yourself scum-bucket. THIS WOULDN'T WORK ANYWAY.
I have already blocked web's lynch. I propose that we still lynch him today in order to confirm me.
So, Webadict
Webadict is town. HE IS CALLING YOU A MORON FOR A REASON. Remember Parallel Mafia? He was ever so nice. HE WAS SCUM. Got that? Remember Paranormal 11? He was incredibly angry, HE WAS TOWN. Got that? ALRIGHT.
Nice in Parallel? Ha! Also, I haven't bothered to read Paranormal 11, so I don't remember.
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 08:09:58 pm
I agree that Zai is scummy, he is also being great buds with webadict.You couldn't possibly be more agreeable with everyone, could you?
Webadict, crafty little bugger he is, is probably doing this as scum for exactly the reason Toony spoke of.
Webadict townie=mean
Webadict scum=nice
Webadict scum in this game=mean
Post by: Rashilul on November 07, 2009, 08:10:17 pm
I agree that Zai is scummy, he is also being great buds with webadict.
Webadict, crafty little bugger he is, is probably doing this as scum for exactly the reason Toony spoke of.
Webadict townie=mean
Webadict scum=nice
Webadict scum in this game=mean
...Have you not been paying attention? WEB CANNOT BE LYNCHED NOW, THANKS TO EDUREN
Oh right, I forgot to unvote webadict and vote Zai.
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 08:14:26 pm
Personally, I don't think there's quite enough to get him yet if he's scum. The bandwagon did do what I failed to, though: make him crack. Town or Scum, we'll know soon enough.
For now, let's go ahead and get the one that just keeps on being scummy.
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 08:15:12 pm
Wow.. a big rush to attack web.Which one is that, really?
Personally, I don't think there's quite enough to get him yet if he's scum. The bandwagon did do what I failed to, though: make him crack. Town or Scum, we'll know soon enough.
For now, let's go ahead and get the one that just keeps on being scummy.
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 08:21:14 pm
You guys, Rashilul is considerably more scummy than Zai...Surprisingly enough, I agree.
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 08:21:55 pm
Well, obviously you agree.You guys, Rashilul is considerably more scummy than Zai...Surprisingly enough, I agree.
And stop buddying.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 07, 2009, 08:24:57 pm
150+ new posts in my absence.
Do you need a vote count? T_T
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 08:25:43 pm
Do you need a vote count? T_T
That would probably be nice, yeah.
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 08:33:05 pm
Rash has been passive, poor on explanations and triggered 4th vote scumtell (which isn't as strong as 3rd vote).
However, Zai has been passive aggressive, buddying up the WAZOOO, attempting to Lightning Rod me to kill you which now looks very meh now that he's defending you and attacking those who accuse you.
It's so Obvscum that it's warping in on itself and starting to make himself look town again! O.o
No, Zai dies today. If he's scum, I think we'll have a whole bucketful of information as to who his buddies are. Anyone else dying, including you, would be an educated guess in my eyes.
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 08:39:23 pm
You continue on that.
Hey, SHAD0W... Why oh why did ToonyMan saying something so trivial make you unvote?
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 08:39:44 pm
WEB CANNOT BE LYNCHED NOW, THANKS TO EDURENYou can...
Zai.
Post by: Leafsnail on November 07, 2009, 08:45:04 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 08:50:37 pm
Be careful after 4 more votes to avoid a hammer before he gets one more time to speak.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 07, 2009, 08:58:21 pm
01. SirBayer [None]:
02. Cheeetar [1]: Zai
03. Neruz [5]: Mephansteras, RedWarrior0, Zai, Org, Apostolic
04. Dakarian [1]: Mr.Person
05. SHAD0WDump [1]: Webadict,
06. Leafsnail [None]:
07. ExKirby [1]: Leafsnail
08. Vector [None]:
09. Mr.Person [1]: Dakarian
10. Mephansteras [None]:
11. Apostolic Nihilist [None]:
12. Zai [3]: Mr.Person, Rashilul, SHAD0Wdump
13. Eduren [2]: Dakarian, SirBayer
14. ToonyMan [None]: Zai
15. Webadict [2]: ExKirby, Cheeetar,
16. Org [None]:
17. CobaltKobold [None]:
18. Rashilul [1]: CobaltKobold
19. RedWarrior0 [None]:
I have a suspicion that something went horribly wrong in this votecount. Where did I fuck up?
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 09:03:39 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 07, 2009, 09:04:37 pm
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 09:06:30 pm
Purposely forgetting to answer question. Why did you unvote?WEB CANNOT BE LYNCHED NOW, THANKS TO EDURENYou can...
Zai.
I don't know where I messed up, if anywhere.Zai has two votes.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 07, 2009, 09:07:06 pm
I'm voting Zai right now.
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 09:07:28 pm
...Did you go through the entire thread? Just go backwards from now until you get everyone's vote. That way you get their most recent votes and can ignore any earlier ones.
Zai has two votes.
Three votes.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 09:08:22 pm
Trust Toony more.Purposely forgetting to answer question. Why did you unvote?WEB CANNOT BE LYNCHED NOW, THANKS TO EDURENYou can...
Zai.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 07, 2009, 09:08:53 pm
:-P
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 07, 2009, 09:12:05 pm
What the fuck?Better yet?
01. SirBayer [None]:
02. Cheeetar [None]:
03. Neruz [5]: Mephansteras, RedWarrior0, Zai, Org, Apostolic
04. Dakarian [1]: Mr.Person
05. SHAD0WDump [1]: Webadict,
06. Leafsnail [None]:
07. ExKirby [1]: Leafsnail
08. Vector [None]:
09. Mr.Person [1]: Dakarian
10. Mephansteras [None]:
11. Apostolic Nihilist [None]:
12. Zai [3]: Mr.Person, ToonyMan, Rashilul, SHAD0Wdump
13. Eduren [2]: Dakarian, SirBayer
14. ToonyMan
- :
15. Webadict [2]: ExKirby, Cheeetar,
16. Org [None]:
17. CobaltKobold [None]:
18. Rashilul [1]: CobaltKobold
19. RedWarrior0 [None]:
I have a suspicion that something went horribly wrong in this votecount. Where did I fuck up?
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 09:13:41 pm
When you see this:
| "Dakarian | OMG Kai you SCUM!! |
| (Litia pic) |
You see the word "Kai". The instinct is to Copy and Past Kai's name to "Dakarian" on your list.
However, it does this to your vote count
Dakarian: Kai
I do that A LOT.
Fakeedit: Im' voting for Zai
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 09:14:52 pm
Trust Toony more.For what reason? He didn't say anything other than I wasn't scum.
Also, dakarian is voting 2 people, and neither of them are Zai :P
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 07, 2009, 09:17:08 pm
02. Cheeetar [None]:
03. Neruz [5]: Mephansteras, RedWarrior0, Zai, Org, Apostolic
04. Dakarian [1]: Mr.Person
05. SHAD0WDump [1]: Webadict,
06. Leafsnail [None]:
07. ExKirby [1]: Leafsnail
08. Vector [None]:
09. Mr.Person [None]:
10. Mephansteras [None]:
11. Apostolic Nihilist [None]:
12. Zai [5]: Mr.Person, ToonyMan, Rashilul, SHAD0Wdump, Dakarian
13. Eduren [1]: SirBayer
14. ToonyMan [None]:
15. Webadict [2]: ExKirby, Cheeetar
16. Org [None]:
17. CobaltKobold [None]:
18. Rashilul [1]: CobaltKobold
19. RedWarrior0 [None]:
Cocks.
Also, from now on I will IGNORE any vote that does not properly say WHOM YOU ARE UNVOTING.
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 09:20:23 pm
I think more attention needs to be paid to Apostolic Nihilist.
Post by: Leafsnail on November 07, 2009, 09:21:47 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 07, 2009, 09:24:10 pm
People, USE SPOILERS.
SHAD0Wdump, take that red status thing out of your signature. For the love of god.
Org, participate or I'll seek a replacement for you. Same for Vector and AN.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 07, 2009, 09:25:27 pm
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 09:26:31 pm
pretty much person that plays mafia on these forums (except alexhans and yourself) is in this game
Lies. Where is ze Josh, for one thing?
Post by: Org on November 07, 2009, 09:26:40 pm
Also, a few general requests:I have posted! What the Hell Pandar? I posted like an hour or 30 minutes ago!
People, USE SPOILERS.
SHAD0Wdump, take that red status thing out of your signature. For the love of god.
Org, participate or I'll seek a replacement for you. Same for Vector and AN.
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 09:27:28 pm
What about SirBayer? He is online and isn't posting.Also, a few general requests:I have posted! What the Hell Pandar? I posted like an hour or 30 minutes ago!
People, USE SPOILERS.
SHAD0Wdump, take that red status thing out of your signature. For the love of god.
Org, participate or I'll seek a replacement for you. Same for Vector and AN.
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 09:27:44 pm
Org, participate or I'll seek a replacement for you. Same for Vector and AN.I have posted! What the Hell Pandar? I posted like an hour or 30 minutes ago!
He said 'participate', not 'post'. But you don't know what 'participating' is, do you Org? You just active lurk.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 07, 2009, 09:28:14 pm
I told Bayer to post over AIM instead of here.
Post by: Org on November 07, 2009, 09:31:36 pm
Humph.Org, participate or I'll seek a replacement for you. Same for Vector and AN.I have posted! What the Hell Pandar? I posted like an hour or 30 minutes ago!
He said 'participate', not 'post'. But you don't know what 'participating' is, do you Org? You just active lurk.
Now, what exactly did Eduren do?
Zai, even though you were hell-bent to kill Web, when Eduren messed up, you basically just said Be careful next time and gave him a pat on his back. what is with that?
Post by: Leafsnail on November 07, 2009, 09:31:47 pm
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 09:34:15 pm
Zai, even though you were hell-bent to kill Web, when Eduren messed up, you basically just said Be careful next time and gave him a pat on his back. what is with that?
If you haven't noticed, I'm not 'hell-bent' on killing Web. But I said that because I'm a nice guy and don't like it when people feel bad about themselves; we all mistakes. Why the fuck do you think I would say that?
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 09:35:17 pm
For now, since I missed the original event: Eduren, why the heck did you block webadict's lynch? Are you trying to defend a partner? Trying to WIFOM? Trying to waste the town's lynch? I can't think of any pro-town reason for you to do it at the moment.
It was to get a confirmed townie in the form of himself. He messed up with the logic, though, since there's nothing inherently townie about his role.
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 09:44:40 pm
Scum with the ability to block their lynch is pretty overpowered.For now, since I missed the original event: Eduren, why the heck did you block webadict's lynch? Are you trying to defend a partner? Trying to WIFOM? Trying to waste the town's lynch? I can't think of any pro-town reason for you to do it at the moment.
It was to get a confirmed townie in the form of himself. He messed up with the logic, though, since there's nothing inherently townie about his role.
... He was hardly after me.Humph.Org, participate or I'll seek a replacement for you. Same for Vector and AN.I have posted! What the Hell Pandar? I posted like an hour or 30 minutes ago!
He said 'participate', not 'post'. But you don't know what 'participating' is, do you Org? You just active lurk.
Now, what exactly did Eduren do?
Zai, even though you were hell-bent to kill Web, when Eduren messed up, you basically just said Be careful next time and gave him a pat on his back. what is with that?
Post by: Org on November 07, 2009, 09:48:27 pm
I said were not are. You didnt seem such a nice guy...oh god damnit that was Shadow.Zai, even though you were hell-bent to kill Web, when Eduren messed up, you basically just said Be careful next time and gave him a pat on his back. what is with that?
If you haven't noticed, I'm not 'hell-bent' on killing Web. But I said that because I'm a nice guy and don't like it when people feel bad about themselves; we all mistakes. Why the fuck do you think I would say that?
I made a mistake. :3
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 09:53:30 pm
I made a mistake. :3
Of course you did.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 09:57:28 pm
SHAD0Wdump, take that red status thing out of your signature. For the love of god.But my feed!
Post by: Mr.Person on November 07, 2009, 10:12:23 pm
Zai, even though you were hell-bent to kill Web, when Eduren messed up, you basically just said Be careful next time and gave him a pat on his back. what is with that?
If you haven't noticed, I'm not 'hell-bent' on killing Web. But I said that because I'm a nice guy and don't like it when people feel bad about themselves; we all mistakes. Why the fuck do you think I would say that?
CAUGHT YOU, SCUM! SUCK IT!
COMPLETE THE BANDWAGON!!!1!
Just for public knowledge, whoever hammers is likely to be looked upon disdainfully tomorrow if/when Web turns up town.
This is strange, please talk more about this.
@Pand: ONCE AGAIN, I don't have 2 votes, I'm not voting Dakarian, I'm voting Zai.
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 10:13:27 pm
He is scum.
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 10:14:07 pm
CAUGHT YOU, SCUM! SUCK IT!
...Huh? How so?
COMPLETE THE BANDWAGON!!!1!
Just for public knowledge, whoever hammers is likely to be looked upon disdainfully tomorrow if/when Web turns up town.
This is strange, please talk more about this.
What's there to talk about?
Post by: Mr.Person on November 07, 2009, 10:16:05 pm
"If you make a mistake in lynching Webadict, you'll get scrutinized really hard"
Post by: SirBayer on November 07, 2009, 10:19:11 pm
So since I'm not following the whole thing perfectly (I've read all of it, and I hope I get it), I'm going to ask Webadict: Why do you feel the need to be so obscenely aggressive? And very angry. It's not very productive to make people angry, is it? Emotional people don't do anything mental quite as well.
If there was an answer to that, please tell me and I will look instead of asking.
Until I get an answer, Unvote Eduren. Since I think that's who I was voting.
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 10:23:41 pm
[PPE:] Christ, Bayer. Hope ya feel better.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 10:25:36 pm
SHAD0Wdump refuses to say more.
He is scum.
Sorry...Trust Toony more.For what reason?
You whined.
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 10:32:47 pm
Hammering a townie isn't just mistakenly lynching. It's more than that. The person who does that is effectively the killer of the hammer-lynched. Whoever hammers should rightfully be put under scrutiny. The circumstances of hammering was really what I was saying was important. If somebody had hammered Web without giving him breathing room, that's scummier than waiting for him to talk; in a hammer setup, you have all the time in the world to talk things through, if necessary; so why rush it?
[PPE:] Christ, Bayer. Hope ya feel better.
Funny. That quote just says that the hammer gets suspected if/when (when?) he turns town, not just a fuss about hammering too quickly.
In truth, it sounds more like you are already ready to attack the one that hammers tomorrow.
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 10:34:45 pm
That's the best you could come up with to vote me? Was no one else suspicious to you?SHAD0Wdump refuses to say more.
He is scum.Sorry...Trust Toony more.For what reason?
You whined.
Either that or making a general statement and active lurking.Hammering a townie isn't just mistakenly lynching. It's more than that. The person who does that is effectively the killer of the hammer-lynched. Whoever hammers should rightfully be put under scrutiny. The circumstances of hammering was really what I was saying was important. If somebody had hammered Web without giving him breathing room, that's scummier than waiting for him to talk; in a hammer setup, you have all the time in the world to talk things through, if necessary; so why rush it?
[PPE:] Christ, Bayer. Hope ya feel better.
Funny. That quote just says that the hammer gets suspected if/when (when?) he turns town, not just a fuss about hammering too quickly.
In truth, it sounds more like you are already ready to attack the one that hammers tomorrow.
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 10:39:03 pm
And please just leave off Shadow. There's plenty of time to tear into him tomorrow when he's claimed that the restriction ends. Restrictions that bad DO happen and assuming he's lying because it's anti-town is horrible logic. Zai is horribly scum and, even without him, there's others to focus on. Shadow can wait for tomorrow.
Post by: SirBayer on November 07, 2009, 10:39:25 pm
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 10:42:42 pm
Webadict: Answer my question?Typical that...
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 10:44:00 pm
Funny. That quote just says that the hammer gets suspected if/when (when?) he turns town, not just a fuss about hammering too quickly.
In truth, it sounds more like you are already ready to attack the one that hammers tomorrow.
Someone's reading just a bit too much into things. Into stuff that isn't there.
It was merely a warning for caution; don't rush shit or shit blows up in your face.
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 10:49:35 pm
So, uh, guys. Sorry for not posting. I'm fairly ill. I can't see clearly if my head isn't facing almost level because my eyes water, my sinuses are congested as all heck, and my head hurts. So, yeah. Not well.
So since I'm not following the whole thing perfectly (I've read all of it, and I hope I get it), I'm going to ask Webadict: Why do you feel the need to be so obscenely aggressive? And very angry. It's not very productive to make people angry, is it? Emotional people don't do anything mental quite as well.
If there was an answer to that, please tell me and I will look instead of asking.
Until I get an answer, Unvote Eduren. Since I think that's who I was voting.
I'll butt in.
Part of Webadict's recent meta is that he hates not being listened to. He's been lately been getting more and more hostile when he's not being read properly, seeing someone attack improperly, or when he's not listened to.
He's always been aggressive. The emotional aspect is based on that dislike and his looking for a way to 'make people see sense'.
Why the answer? Because his emotional outburst and aggressiveness is a null tell. It's part of his personality. Like it or hate it if you like. However, remember that we're not after people who are bothersome or even unhelpful. We are after scum and ONLY scum.
And, to be blunt, annoyance and unhelpfulness are NOT actions that are seen by mostly scum: it's just as likely to see a townie be that way as a scum.
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 10:51:57 pm
Getting emotional? Going to copy Webadict's jerk mode next?
Someone's reading just a bit too much into things. Into stuff that isn't there.
It was merely a warning for caution; don't rush shit or shit blows up in your face.
Or can you actually bring some CONTENT into the conversation rather than quick vote switches and hanging on to Buddies?
Post by: SirBayer on November 07, 2009, 10:52:42 pm
I suppose after running all the BMs your instinct is to explain, but why bother defending him, Dakarian?
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 07, 2009, 10:54:00 pm
at-the-mod-post
What the fuck?Zai has votes in three places. MrPerson has them in two. Leafsnail unvoted.
(snip)
I have a suspicion that something went horribly wrong in this votecount. Where did I fuck up?
Org, participate or I'll seek a replacement for you. Same for Vector and AN.Org's participating at about the same level as anybody else in the low-posting. It's not very much, but he appears to be improving. No ham sandwiches, e'en, unlike web.
Org: Participate, not POST....uh...I'm trying not to be newbie much. But I've seen time and time again that active lurking IS a strategy, permissible, if scummy-seeming. a post pointing out how the antibandwagon is scummy (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg854665#msg854665) for instance. I continue my cross-game defense of Org because he's improving.
I told Bayer to post over AIM instead of here.
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 10:54:44 pm
So, uh, guys. Sorry for not posting. I'm fairly ill. I can't see clearly if my head isn't facing almost level because my eyes water, my sinuses are congested as all heck, and my head hurts. So, yeah. Not well.I'm very productive when I'm angry.
So since I'm not following the whole thing perfectly (I've read all of it, and I hope I get it), I'm going to ask Webadict: Why do you feel the need to be so obscenely aggressive? And very angry. It's not very productive to make people angry, is it? Emotional people don't do anything mental quite as well.
If there was an answer to that, please tell me and I will look instead of asking.
Until I get an answer, Unvote Eduren. Since I think that's who I was voting.
Also, if you thought that was anger, I wasn't even trying to be angry. Anger with emotion is easy to transfer over into writing, because it is what you are made to feel. Like capital letters. They are read as though I'm yelling.
It also helps to serve a point. That being don't be an idiot.
And, it helps destroy metas against me.
Also, dakarian pretty much answered it.
Also, you say you're unable to help but you've managed to know what's happening here without responding for... how long?
Not that much better honestly, considering everything else on his head.I'm not after him because of his restriction. I'm after him because of his DRASTIC SWITCH OF DRASTICNESS! As well as his general scumminess.
And please just leave off Shadow. There's plenty of time to tear into him tomorrow when he's claimed that the restriction ends. Restrictions that bad DO happen and assuming he's lying because it's anti-town is horrible logic. Zai is horribly scum and, even without him, there's others to focus on. Shadow can wait for tomorrow.
Yeah, but I'd love to hear it from him.Because if I'm not here, I can't answer it.
I suppose after running all the BMs your instinct is to explain, but why bother defending him, Dakarian?
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 10:58:53 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 10:59:23 pm
Yeah, but I'd love to hear it from him.
I suppose after running all the BMs your instinct is to explain, but why bother defending him, Dakarian?
Because I felt that aiming at his attitude isn't helpful for determining his scumminess. You have to get PAST his personality to see how he truly is.
I will ask, btw, what DO you feel about Zai- his actions and my argument?
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 07, 2009, 11:00:03 pm
fuck it, webadict deserves a separate post, because e'eryone else would be lost in it. copied header: Ten pages while I slept. Yeek. time to comb for scum (writing as I read) Rashilul...I don't think I'm getting any more out of him. unvote Rashilul So now I read and write through the forest and see if I can find the ninja scum. (BTW it is the j key that is worst now) A pity that all the quotes I pull out will not let me know the huge number of posts written while I write this. Perhaps I'll check by timestamp. 34 pages when I started writing this.
Spoiler: Pandarsenic has low-res. Analysis of webadict. (click to show/hide)
Got anything to say for yourself other than "go look" and "support your reasoning"? I've done both. Scum.
Oh. Now You're in no danger of being hammered, since an UNVOTE BANDWAGON happened. Gods. I weep for the town.
PPE: damnit spoiler tags won't nest. altering the internal one to a quote...
PPE2: webadict answers a question? Amazing. Hmm. Still, posting...*click, read*
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 07, 2009, 11:00:53 pm
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 11:03:28 pm
Getting emotional? Going to copy Webadict's jerk mode next?Emotional? Hardly.
Yeah, but I'd love to hear it from him.lulwut
I suppose after running all the BMs your instinct is to explain, but why bother defending him, Dakarian?
It's not defending. It's helping the town not mislynch (or lynch for bad reasons) because of people misreading people.
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 11:06:00 pm
That pushed some people away. A few others now think of him as town so they left him be.
Post by: SirBayer on November 07, 2009, 11:10:57 pm
Dakarian, a'ight. That's good enough for me.
As to my thoughts on your argument and Zai: Contradictions don't bode well in my opinion. So, I'll shift my vote to Zai. He is clipping things a bit short, isn't he?
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 07, 2009, 11:24:57 pm
dakarian: I suppose that pardon does make it a "safe move", which only makes our job harder.
Summary: Zai,, I choose YOU! You, like webadict, don't care if town die (I brought this up in a prior post, I'm fairly sure), and are being antitown left and right.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 07, 2009, 11:25:44 pm
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 11:30:14 pm
Why are you defending webadict?You don't do meta? Then what is this?This is how you normally pay mafia, is it not? Making up fake rules to your role.
That is him commenting on someone else's meta. Durdudur. He said he himself doesn't have meta-tells.
How is that defending him? You and Bayer both think pointing out what someone meant/is doing is 'defending' them. That's just stupid.
Post by: Neruz on November 07, 2009, 11:36:27 pm
I notice that earlier on alot of people seem to be jumping me for my bandwagoning comment, that was supposed to be sarcasm (in fact almost every post i ever make has sarcasm in it somewhere), but i forgot that you guys don't know me well enough to pick up on sarcasm yet, and i didn't add any smileys for emphasis. Sorry about that.
Now to go read this mountain and work out what the hell is going on (yeah, right.)
Post by: SirBayer on November 07, 2009, 11:37:44 pm
(Pssst: The answer is yes)
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 11:38:22 pm
Holy jesus fuck, where did all these pages come from?19 players, duh...
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 11:40:30 pm
Why, Zai? Couldn't re-interpreting someone's statement or actions be a perfectly valid form of scumbuddy defense?
(Pssst: The answer is yes)
Couldn't misinterpreting someone's statement and spreading said misinterpretation be a perfectly valid form of intentionally misleading and confusing the town?
(Pssst: The answer is yes)
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 11:40:49 pm
Note that just about all of the info we have now, including your analysis, is based on that 'mess'.
Scum want a silent town that does little more than bandwagon and blindly follow. They DON'T want heavy arguments and debate that they would have to participate in, since, in the end, they can't REALLY scumhunt.
Yes, it's not easy to wade through the 30+ pages of posts. However, we have real content over many of the people now. It's why the town is able to make heavy strikes at individuals instead of sitting around lurking.
Btw, L-2 I believe
Post by: SirBayer on November 07, 2009, 11:43:17 pm
Why, Zai? Couldn't re-interpreting someone's statement or actions be a perfectly valid form of scumbuddy defense?
(Pssst: The answer is yes)
Couldn't misinterpreting someone's statement and spreading said misinterpretation be a perfectly valid form of intentionally misleading and confusing the town?
(Pssst: The answer is yes)
So you agree that you could be scum! Lovely.
Post by: SirBayer on November 07, 2009, 11:43:37 pm
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 11:44:18 pm
Why, Zai? Couldn't re-interpreting someone's statement or actions be a perfectly valid form of scumbuddy defense?
(Pssst: The answer is yes)
Couldn't misinterpreting someone's statement and spreading said misinterpretation be a perfectly valid form of intentionally misleading and confusing the town?
(Pssst: The answer is yes)
So you agree that you could be scum! Lovely.
So you agree that you could be scum! Lovely.
Post by: SirBayer on November 07, 2009, 11:45:04 pm
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 07, 2009, 11:47:02 pm
Post by: Eduren on November 07, 2009, 11:51:29 pm
For now, since I missed the original event: Eduren, why the heck did you block webadict's lynch? Are you trying to defend a partner? Trying to WIFOM? Trying to waste the town's lynch? I can't think of any pro-town reason for you to do it at the moment.Like was said before, I misinterpreted my role as town-only. Being the newbie moron I am, I decided to play this game as I have seen it done before (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=40063.50).
Now, as a result of that, Zai has buddied me to no end.
Post by: Neruz on November 07, 2009, 11:52:55 pm
Holy jesus fuck, where did all these pages come from?19 players, duh...
Yeah, christ, i feel for poor Pandarsenic, he has to make sense of all this.
I have to say, Zai is definitely looking wrong to me now after reading through all those posts; he's being inconsistant and was very defensive, far more than seemed appropriate. I don't think my vote is the hammer, although i think we're getting close, its hard to keep track.
He is also trying to defend himself by attacking the people who are defending him, rather than actually constructing a defencive argument; this tends to be a fairly strong scum tell, i'm not entirely sure why, but scum tend to go on the offencive when under threat, while town tend to just explain themselves.
So yeah.
Oh, and, for the record, this post contained no sarcasm until this line, this line is covered in sarcasm.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Aaagh.
Post by: Zai on November 07, 2009, 11:57:39 pm
Er, Dakarian. I think. Dammit, who were we talking about?
We were talking about 'defending' people, when it's hardly defending at all. The recipient of said 'defense' was Web. The two accused of 'defending' him were Dak and myself. The accusers were yourself and Cobalt.
[PPE:] Thank you for that incredibly necessary post, SHAD0W. My life is now complete.
Also. I'm likely to be away from internet for all of tomorrow, so if you're going to hammer me, don't bother waiting up; I doubt there's much I can say or will feel like saying (because of exhaustion) at that point that will convince people to change votes.
[PPE2:] lulwut I buddied you, Eduren? Really now?
[PPE3:]
Quote from: Neruz
he was very defensive, far more than seemed appropriate.
lulwut Defending oneself to the fullest degree when under the vote of 5+ people is 'far more than appropriate'? You have some shitty standards for what's appropriate, then.
And I think I'm up to 8 votes now. So you're not the hammer.
Post by: SirBayer on November 08, 2009, 12:01:58 am
Imagine Scum1 says "I believe elephants are pink." Townie1 says, "Elephants aren't pink, you're scum!" Scum2 says, "Not so, elephants have pink ears, that's what he meant."
Obviously a bit of an exaggeration, but you get the point, I hope.
Post by: Eduren on November 08, 2009, 12:08:16 am
[PPE2:] lulwut I buddied you, Eduren? Really now?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I know it doesn't amount to much, that's why it was simply an FoS.
Post by: Neruz on November 08, 2009, 12:10:18 am
[PPE3:]Quote from: Neruzhe was very defensive, far more than seemed appropriate.
lulwut Defending oneself to the fullest degree when under the vote of 5+ people is 'far more than appropriate'? You have some shitty standards for what's appropriate, then.
And I think I'm up to 8 votes now. So you're not the hammer.
Oh no, your level of defense now is expected, i'm talking about earlier when you only had 2 - 3 votes on you; you were defending yourself just as fiercely then as you are now.
I notice you also completely ignored my point about defending yourself by attacking others, interesting.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
STOP IT.
Post by: Zai on November 08, 2009, 12:14:10 am
While the first one is clearly trying to be my friend, the second one is defending me.
What the hell is with you people and this definition of defending?
Post by: Neruz on November 08, 2009, 12:14:58 am
IMPORTANT NOTE: THIS POST CONTAINS SARCASM.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 08, 2009, 12:16:35 am
Post by: Neruz on November 08, 2009, 12:18:37 am
However, we have 4 Mafia, and 15 Townies. Normally it's more like 3 Mafia and 9 Townies; this is a serious advantage for the Townies, unless the Mafia have some real heavy hitters, like, oh say a role that can block lynches.
Just a thought, not really finger-worthy, but definitely worth considering.
Also, what, i'm not allowed use sarcasm even when i ensure that my usage isn't accidentally construed as being serious? What the hell would be the point of being on the internets if i can't use sarcasm? Take away all my fun why don't you.
NINJA-EDIT
Last paragraph is sarcastic.
Post by: Zai on November 08, 2009, 12:20:06 am
Hmm, i just realised something; eduren claiming lynch-blocker isn't a pro-town role, somone then went on to say that Mafia with a lynch-blocker is kind of overpowered, which is true.
However, we have 4 Mafia, and 15 Townies. Normally it's more like 3 Mafia and 9 Townies; this is a serious advantage for the Townies, unless the Mafia have some real heavy hitters, like, oh say a role that can block lynches.
Just a thought, not really finger-worthy, but definitely worth considering.
What an interesting idea~
Post by: Neruz on November 08, 2009, 12:24:07 am
I think it's also worth being very wary of any other proclaimed power roles; Pandar is trying to make this at least a challenge, so i can't help but feel that the Mafia might have some big guns to even up the otherwise massive odds in our favour.
Post by: webadict on November 08, 2009, 12:27:06 am
Post by: Neruz on November 08, 2009, 12:30:35 am
Post by: webadict on November 08, 2009, 12:39:13 am
Post by: Mephansteras on November 08, 2009, 12:41:05 am
Hmmm...
All right. Unvote Neruz. Vote Zai.
My reason is simple, I want to see if anyone is going to hammer him. If he's scum, as so many people think, killing him is good. If not, we'll have a lot of information to go on.
Post by: webadict on November 08, 2009, 12:46:32 am
Two more to hammer?...
Hmmm...
All right. Unvote Neruz. Vote Zai.
My reason is simple, I want to see if anyone is going to hammer him. If he's scum, as so many people think, killing him is good. If not, we'll have a lot of information to go on.
We have information either way, but we're gunning for scum. What's your deal?
Post by: Rashilul on November 08, 2009, 01:02:45 am
Post by: ToonyMan on November 08, 2009, 01:09:26 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 08, 2009, 01:20:30 am
You're either defending them by providing an answer to a question aimed at them or putting words in their mouth (if you're wrong). Either way is bad, because it means you're lightening the pressure on someone else ( = yes, defending them/buddying them), or framing them up.Why are you defending webadict?You don't do meta? Then what is this?This is how you normally pay mafia, is it not? Making up fake rules to your role.
That is him commenting on someone else's meta. Durdudur. He said he himself doesn't have meta-tells.
How is that defending him? You and Bayer both think pointing out what someone meant/is doing is 'defending' them. That's just stupid.
(continuing read) Rashilul: With hammers, we talk until we're done. This makes things...interesting, to say the least.
My reason is simple, I want to see if anyone is going to hammer him. If he's scum, as so many people think, killing him is good. If not, we'll have a lot of information to go on.Why would a scum quickhammer him? Quickhammers are so incredibly OBVIOUSLY scummy that, well, it's almost a guaranteed NK or counterlynch, making it a 1 for 1 trade, which is...class? town-favoring.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 08, 2009, 01:22:22 am
Almost as bad as B12 mafia. Almost.
B12 Mafia had a strong d1 and d2, but it got REALLY lurky after that. Nobody would provide reasoning, so the town lost because of that. The moral is, don't quit. Ever.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 08, 2009, 01:36:52 am
Post by: ToonyMan on November 08, 2009, 01:38:52 am
Zaithemaster.
And...um.
That's it?
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 08, 2009, 01:58:29 am
Post by: dakarian on November 08, 2009, 02:00:46 am
12. Zai [10]: Mr.Person, ToonyMan, Rashilul, SHAD0Wdump, Dakarian, SirBayer, CobaltKobold, Neruz, Mephansteras, Cheeetar
We are now in Twilight. According to typical hammer rules, the day is OVER and no posts can be made from here on until nightfall.
The host may have alternative rules but, for now, let's assume the conversation has ended.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 08, 2009, 02:05:17 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 08, 2009, 02:10:19 am
one moment.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 08, 2009, 04:26:52 am
Zai [10]: Mr.Person, ToonyMan, Rashilul, SHAD0Wdump, Dakarian, SirBayer, CobaltKobold, Neruz, Mephansteras, Cheeetar
You gather around Zai and beat him to death using boards with nails in them.
You search his pockets for money, then begin prying gold fillings from his mouth. Inside his mouth, you find a waterproofed note.
Quote
Ninja Zombie Alien Pirate Lawyer Robot Doctor Spiderman - Jester
Oh, wow. As a Ninja, you can avoid any non-nightkill action. As a zombie, you can come back to life from one death. As an alien, you can abduct a player for a night, roleblocking them and causing all actions targeting them to be roleblcked. As a Pirate, you can force everyone to talk like a pirate the next day. As a robot, you can gain one-shot versions of any ability used against you. As Doctor Spiderman, you can use your "SCIENCE"! ability to conduct research on someone, telling you all commands they can use other than MAFIAKILL (and roleblocking them, since you will web them to a wall to hold them still). Unfortunately, you can only do each of these once. Oh, and you're a Jester, so you win when you're lynched. If you win, others can still win. (as a Lawyer, the best thing for everyone is for you to be gone)
Zai has fulfilled his win condition. Zai has won. All other players are still playing.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 08, 2009, 04:27:34 am
Night roles have until 11 PM Pacific on Sunday to submit their actions.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 09, 2009, 04:18:51 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 09, 2009, 10:23:12 pm
Quote
06. Leafsnail - Envy (from FMA) - MAFIA
MAFIA MEMBER. You are a homunculus. Your objective is to kill humans, naturally. Your philosopher's stone will prevent you from dying to one nightkill. You can, for the MAFIAKILL, use the REPLACE [PLAYER] action, which will kill you and convert the target (think of it as killing this person and taking his place. Or as being the Advanced Doppelganger from Paranormal. The mafia partners are [REDACTED]. You win when it is no longer possible for town to win. The Mafia Chat is at [REDACTED][/spoiler]
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 09, 2009, 10:24:39 pm
9 to lynch
NEW RULE IN PLACE:
"KILL WEBADICT NOW" IS ACTIVE, APPLYING FROM THE BEGINNING OF LAST NIGHT TO THE BEGINNING OF THE NEXT.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 09, 2009, 10:26:31 pm
:V
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 09, 2009, 10:27:40 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 09, 2009, 10:28:25 pm
Post by: Neruz on November 09, 2009, 10:30:33 pm
Oh well, I guess the new rule means we all have to Vote Webadict. Unless we have a daykiller out there; the rule is quite specific after all.
Post by: Eduren on November 09, 2009, 10:32:34 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 09, 2009, 10:34:18 pm
I'd like to know more about the KWN aspect first though.
Btw, Cheeetar.. EXPLAIN!
Post by: Neruz on November 09, 2009, 10:37:27 pm
Also; Pandar, Leafsnail's role says he can revive once, or fake his death and steal someone else's place (i assume this is a roleswap with a target) the fact that LS is dead means that he was targeted for killing at least twice, correct? Or does it mean that he faked his own death? The role PM is a little unclear.
Post by: Eduren on November 09, 2009, 10:40:56 pm
Also; Pandar, Leafsnail's role says he can revive once, or fake his death and steal someone else's place (i assume this is a roleswap with a target) the fact that LS is dead means that he was targeted for killing at least twice, correct? Or does it mean that he faked his own death? The role PM is a little unclear.His one-shot NK immunity is probably still with his target. So no, he was not killed twice. His replace power kills himself in the process.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 09, 2009, 10:43:42 pm
Oh god.Whose name are you taking in vain and why? *yawn* ugh, only six hours of sleep, probably will sleep more now.
I dunno, I've seen kill roles that bypass protections on IRC (hitman), doublekills (chuck norris might've had one, my memory's foggy) and the mafiascum wiki (sniper, was it?)Also; Pandar, Leafsnail's role says he can revive once, or fake his death and steal someone else's place (i assume this is a roleswap with a target) the fact that LS is dead means that he was targeted for killing at least twice, correct? Or does it mean that he faked his own death? The role PM is a little unclear.His one-shot NK immunity is probably still with his target. So no, he was not killed twice. His replace power kills himself in the process.
Post by: Neruz on November 09, 2009, 10:46:03 pm
It seems a bit odd though; if his 'swap places with a player' ability kills him that's fine, but i would have expected it to also swap role pm's. It seems a bit strange that his ability would allow him to swap places with a player, and then tell us all what he just did, which is why i'm asking.Also; Pandar, Leafsnail's role says he can revive once, or fake his death and steal someone else's place (i assume this is a roleswap with a target) the fact that LS is dead means that he was targeted for killing at least twice, correct? Or does it mean that he faked his own death? The role PM is a little unclear.His one-shot NK immunity is probably still with his target. So no, he was not killed twice. His replace power kills himself in the process.
Of course this is a bastard mod game so i don't entirely expect Pandar to answer, but the role pm is kind of unclear, so i'm hoping he might give a little clarification.
Post by: Eduren on November 09, 2009, 10:48:32 pm
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 09, 2009, 10:49:42 pm
Probably not.
Due to lack of mafia kill we can assume he used his power to replace someone. So we're down one scum, + one scum.
Now, I do question why Leaf decided to use his ability last night. There wasn't exactly a lot of suspicion on him and it kills him. The only reason he would sacrifice himself would be to gain a better scum player, right?
It seems likely he targeted one of the 'best' players. Webadict would be too obvious so he probably went for someone like:
Dakarian
CobaltKobold
ToonyMan(!?)
and some others who I can't quite recall now.
Anyways, webadict. Defying the mod probably isn't in Town's interests.
Just watch out for anyone who unvotes him...
Post by: dakarian on November 09, 2009, 10:51:40 pm
Example:
Players
Leafsnail = Envy
Litia = Townie
Night = Leafsnail targets Litia
Leafsnail is then killed in the night. However, Litia now changes her role from townie to scum.
Yes, it meas leafsnail scum has died. however, it DOES mean that someone who WAS town is now scum. It's actually bad... VERY bad for us.
Post by: Neruz on November 09, 2009, 10:55:20 pm
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 09, 2009, 10:55:54 pm
Unless they had a ridiculously useful pro-town role, it's not such a big deal. It would be devastating during a late-game situation, but early game it doesn't seem like it'd have much impact...
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 09, 2009, 11:00:15 pm
Give your reasoning, dakarian, Apostolic Nihilist, and show me that you're not the scum you look like, while I get some rest so I can write the paper due next week (easy, no class rest of week) and the paper due last term (don't ask why I got it extended, please)
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 09, 2009, 11:04:50 pm
It's that simple.
Sure, someone might've been blocked. Maybe? Perhaps the kill was protected, who knows.
Just, what's more likely:
Mafia kill being blocked and Leafsnail being superkilled, OR Leafsnail using his ability?
Post by: dakarian on November 09, 2009, 11:08:35 pm
The role PM is always shown on death in this game, so that aspect is unavoidable.
Meanwhile, Leaf dying is part of the role. Story wise, he's killed someone and is now looking EXACTLY like that person. Game wise, Leaf dies and someone just got converted.
There's a few benefits though from all this: Now that we know Leaf is scum, we can run a scan to find his partners on D1. Finding the convert will be impossible for the moment, but that will change later on.
@CobaltKobold
Note that Leaf's replace power was based on the mafiakill, that is, to use it he had to be the one using the mafia's nightkill. There's no other kill. As such in order for leaf to have been killed by other means, there has to be a nonscum person who has a superkill/double kill AND the mafiakill had to have been stopped.
The chance that Leaf was double/superkilled AND the mafiakill getting blocked is far FAR less than leaf actually using his power.
Post by: Rashilul on November 09, 2009, 11:12:50 pm
Post by: Eduren on November 09, 2009, 11:16:07 pm
Webadict, dakarian just ninja'd me and said what I was going to say anyway.Say it anyway, we'd love to hear what you are thinking.
Post by: Rashilul on November 09, 2009, 11:19:36 pm
Anyway, night everyone.
Post by: dakarian on November 09, 2009, 11:33:59 pm
2. Just did a quickscan on Leafsnail:
First he Randomvotes ExKirby then later defends ExKirby, then fusses at him. He then Defends Toonyman while poking at Neruz, then later votes for Rashilul.
He then dissapears during the whole me vs Web thing and shows up again to fling a top suspects list: In that list he Votes Webadict, FOSes Meph/Rash/Zai, and casually mentions me
After the bandwagon breaks apart, he Unvotes Web and says he'll probably vote zai or rash
The last thing he does is Unvotes ExKirby, but that's because Pandarsenic showed him as voting for ExKirby.
OHBTW, Leaf was the 3rd vote on the Web bandwagon. 3rd vote scumtell strikes again!
As for ExKirby..he votes for SirBayer but unvotes once Sir speaks up, then wanders around wondering if he'll be killed and sits in confusion. He then votes Nihlist as a lurker hunt, then votes Web for being 'too pushy'. That's pretty much it.
Btw, the web vote: 4th vote, soon after Leaf's vote.
Unvote(Cheeetar), I believe ExKirby is scum.
Talk, NOW ExKirby. I don't have to wait for a bandwagon to wipe you out.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 09, 2009, 11:36:23 pm
And, yeah, kill Webadict now seems to be the point of this day.
Post by: Neruz on November 09, 2009, 11:38:43 pm
Post by: Eduren on November 09, 2009, 11:50:08 pm
We'd probably all regret it, but rules are rules.If you are going to regret it, then why do it?
And no, the rules are not the rules. Pandar has admitted to being a bastard in this game and so cannot be trusted.
Post by: dakarian on November 09, 2009, 11:51:19 pm
So forgive me if I bulk from the bandwagon and ask: why was Webadict really aimed for the lynch D1?
So far I'm seeing:
1. The attack against me. His reasons were argued down but that doesn't make them scummy.
2. His attitude. I saw a few people who seem to be voting less to kill scum and more to shut him up.
It would be easy to just follow along blindly, but I want a good explanation for it.
Post by: Eduren on November 09, 2009, 11:57:42 pm
2. His attitude. I saw a few people who seem to be voting less to kill scum and more to shut him up.This actually seemed to be an undertone to his near-lynch. I'm guessing that (As seen in this board many times) people were lynching to punish a certain behavior. While I don't exactly like his hostility, I'm not going to try to change him.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 10, 2009, 12:00:57 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, his big quote fest of reason here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg854407#msg854407) was really weak.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 10, 2009, 12:01:37 am
Post by: Eduren on November 10, 2009, 12:02:52 am
[PPE]: I'm not saying he wasn't scummy, just that a few of those votes may have more to do with his play-style.
Post by: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 12:15:43 am
And the host declaring the rule is ready-made WIFOM-in-a-box.
@Cheeetar
his attack on Shadow wasn't much better than the lurker hunt combined with OMGUS.
The problem, town is just as likely to do it as scum *points to Alexhans*. It's a null tell.
The quote insanity actually is valid. he DID have reasons to attack me. I broke them down but reasons they were.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 10, 2009, 12:25:49 am
Post by: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 12:28:37 am
He's also been pretty darn passive and triggered the 4th vote scumtell.
Meanwhile:
Quote
Well, since I'm likely to die by the next passing moron, I'm Pandarsenic. I'm basically a one-shot ultra-cop and I get to have anyone's role PM I want. So, I'll probably die tonight anyway now, but I'd really enjoy being able to say who's scum before I die, so if you plan to hammer, give me some notice.
Definitely good to wait for web to speak before killing him.
Post by: Vector on November 10, 2009, 12:33:20 am
That is, we have a "Webadict" running around. My guess is that if someone unvotes and then votes the Webadict, then we're going to see a transfer of Webadictification (:P).
So, what will probably happen is that
1. If we lynch whoever Leafsnail converted, that person will transfer their powers over to whoever voted and then unvoted them.
2. This event will disappear after tomorrow (otherwise I think there's a bit of overpoweredness involved).
If this is correct, I think a no-lynch might be the right answer (provided that 2 is right). That way we'll nail the scum in his grave.
If 2 is incorrect, then we're in trouble. I'm not sure that celling up will be the right answer this time, given the number of players and potential sticking of scum with scum.
If 1 and 2 are incorrect, then I have no idea what we should do.
Post by: Vector on November 10, 2009, 12:34:40 am
Post by: Neruz on November 10, 2009, 12:36:32 am
Post by: Vector on November 10, 2009, 12:43:44 am
If this is correct, I think a no-lynch might be the right answer (provided that 2 is right). That way we'll nail the scum in his grave.
More thinking: I think it comes down to how dangerous we think a town-hopping scum is. That is, (given a random lynch), is the 1/17 chance that we end up with scum moving again worth facing an extra scum NK?
Post by: webadict on November 10, 2009, 12:54:24 am
What was that?
Also, Rashilul is very scummy.
AND SCREW YOU ORG FOR BEING A HUGE ROBOT! Why on EARTH did you block me?
Post by: Neruz on November 10, 2009, 12:55:35 am
web, care to elaborate on your claim of Rash's scumminess, or do you just want to dance around shouting 'Rashilul is scum-my! Rashilul is scum-my!" in a singsong voice?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 10, 2009, 12:58:42 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 10, 2009, 01:02:40 am
(Response to Pandar's bone).
Oh baby.
Post by: Vector on November 10, 2009, 01:03:19 am
My guess is, seeing as it dosen't seem we have to kill Webadict, that some votes are changed over to votes for Webadict. I still, however, think Web is scummy.
Yeah, but that had nothing to do with the KWN game that we played. I'm currently thinking that's not the case, especially given the fact that this popped up right after the use of an ability that looks very similar to that of Webadict in KWN.
Post by: Neruz on November 10, 2009, 01:04:23 am
Your bone is the best Pandar honey. The best.(Response to Pandar's bone).
Oh baby.
Post by: webadict on November 10, 2009, 01:08:54 am
I have to say, Org's role amuses me.I could say the exact same thing about you, now couldn't I? And I'm glad you love questions. You're also probably scum.
web, care to elaborate on your claim of Rash's scumminess, or do you just want to dance around shouting 'Rashilul is scum-my! Rashilul is scum-my!" in a singsong voice?
Webadict, dakarian just ninja'd me and said what I was going to say anyway.Basically bandwagons for no reason,
Does a really crappy job explaining his vote EVER,I agree that Zai is scummy, he is also being great buds with webadict.
Webadict, crafty little bugger he is, is probably doing this as scum for exactly the reason Toony spoke of.
Webadict townie=mean
Webadict scum=nice
Webadict scum in this game=mean
...Have you not been paying attention? WEB CANNOT BE LYNCHED NOW, THANKS TO EDUREN
Oh right, I forgot to unvote webadict and vote Zai.
And general active lurking in general.Quote[Day 1, Quit Complaining]
Pandar is not amused by whining.
Also, Cheeetar, you never said why you were voting me yesterday.
My guess is, seeing as it dosen't seem we have to kill Webadict, that some votes are changed over to votes for Webadict. I still, however, think Web is scummy.Cool. WHY?!?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 10, 2009, 01:22:48 am
Post by: Neruz on November 10, 2009, 01:56:06 am
I say we ignore him and leave him alone for this round, we can reevaluate next round.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 10, 2009, 02:01:33 am
Post by: Cheeetar on November 10, 2009, 02:02:05 am
Post by: Neruz on November 10, 2009, 02:02:54 am
Post by: Cheeetar on November 10, 2009, 02:15:35 am
Post by: Mr.Person on November 10, 2009, 02:31:26 am
Post by: Org on November 10, 2009, 06:51:46 am
I THOUGHT YOU WERE A
Post by: Neruz on November 10, 2009, 06:58:46 am
Hey morons, we have converting scum and a magistrate. Put 2 and 2 together. It isn't that he HAS to be scum, we just can't risk Eduren being scum, that's all.
Technically a good point, especially since Magistrate tends to be a pretty useless role all things considered.
Post by: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 09:30:35 am
Seriously guys. Stop the nonscum lynching. Killing Web because's he's a prick. Killing Shadow because he writes in 3 words for one day. Killing Eduren even though a nolynch will mean he frys (when we get close to lylo, it'll be another matter).
Meanwhile, no one wants to comment on my findings about ExKirby? You can't beat information gathered after a confirmed scum dies.
ALSO
@Web
What did you get last night, since it's pretty much a sure bet that you used it just in case you get to live one more day?
Post by: ExKirby on November 10, 2009, 11:22:59 am
Post by: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 11:50:18 am
@everyone
Anyone have an issue with an ExKirby Vig and a Rash lynch today?
Post by: ExKirby on November 10, 2009, 12:03:38 pm
Post by: SirBayer on November 10, 2009, 12:42:56 pm
Unvote(Cheeetar)
Oh well in that case Unvote webadict. (Response to Pandar's bone).
I apologize for not scum-hunting right now, but I'm short on time, and this really needs to be said.
You fools! Do not, I repeat do not unvote. Dakarian, you should know better than this. "Kill Webadict Now" references his game, in which the first person to unvote the webadict BECAME THE WEBADICT WHEN HE WAS KILLED. I understand this is a bit of a leap, but this could be what Panda means, and if it is, this game just turned into a Bastard Mod game, and we can't afford to play that way.
Perhaps my reaction is a bit over-the-top or off-target, but this is very, very important. If I'm right and there's a Webadict-equivalent role now, we need to discover who it was passed on to, and -
Dakarian... you should've known better than that. You played that game. You were the Webadict at one point in that game.
Dakarian, why didn't you consider what that meant?
Post by: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 12:57:17 pm
Instead I'm a one shot day vigger. I took a chance at staying silent day 1 and hoping I don't die. Now that it's day 2, I'm opting to make use of what I have so that a random NK doesn't off me. Besides, we may have enough info to find two people who truely look scummy to make best use of it.
Fakeedit
#%)*)% I didn't think of it!
Well, it's not all horror. If the Webadict trick works the same as last game, the switch ONLY occurs if the old webadict dies the same day.
As such, if Cheeetar is the webadict, it'll only switch to me if Cheeetar dies today. Same for Neruz and Webadict. If we need to kill them, we can kill them tommorow and avoid unvoting.
And no, it's not a bit of a leap. It may not be the case, but it's good to vent the issue.
Btw, Zai wouldn't be the webadict, since the 'rule' kicked in after he died. Leaf, meanwhile, ....hmm, I'll do a scan on votes and unvotes done on him.
Again, you only have to worry about unvotes on the folks who die the same day if the rule works the same way as before.
Post by: Vector on November 10, 2009, 01:06:59 pm
Did you people completely forget the part where I said precisely that two or three pages ago? And, in fact, thought we might want to NL so that the scum gets nailed down (given that it's supposed to be a today-only effect)? Or were you all too busy examining your navels?
Post by: Mephansteras on November 10, 2009, 01:09:44 pm
At least we have some clues. If this was Paranormal we wouldn't know that the Advanced Dopp had done his thing.
Post by: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 01:14:32 pm
So we DON'T need to nolynch. We just have to be careful: don't unvote unless you're sure the person won't die.
Meanwhile, the newleafsnail won't be easily spotted since D1 they were true town.
OTOH, we have two normal scum that were scum D1 and still scum D2. I believe Exkirby and Rash might be the two in question. Anyone have other suggestions?
Post by: ExKirby on November 10, 2009, 01:20:31 pm
Seriously though, in the current condition, you're dead in two ways, on the basis that you're the only one who is aiming at me. Either you don't kill me, and the mafia kill you to remove the vig, or you kill me and everyone suspects you.
Post by: Vector on November 10, 2009, 01:23:30 pm
Cheeetar
Webadict
Well, okay. That's not so bad, as long as we don't kill either of them.
Also,
Yes. You get bent.
Seriously though, in the current condition, you're dead in two ways, on the basis that you're the only one who is aiming at me. Either you don't kill me, and the mafia kill you to remove the vig, or you kill me and everyone suspects you.
This is horribly defensive reasoning. You might want to think up something else.
Post by: ExKirby on November 10, 2009, 01:25:45 pm
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 10, 2009, 01:29:32 pm
Post by: Vector on November 10, 2009, 01:30:06 pm
Additionally, he's a one-shot day vigger. Do you really think the scum are going to be so scared of someone who turns into a VT after he kills you?
Post by: Mephansteras on November 10, 2009, 01:35:04 pm
Hello everybody!
Ok, so unless you were lying you can now talk in more then 2 words today. So, what's your story?
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 10, 2009, 01:42:34 pm
My role has a 3 word speech impediment, at night I can make an action to remove this impediment for the next day.Hello everybody!
Ok, so unless you were lying you can now talk in more then 2 words today. So, what's your story?
Post by: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 01:51:08 pm
Yes. You get bent.
Seriously though, in the current condition, you're dead in two ways, on the basis that you're the only one who is aiming at me. Either you don't kill me, and the mafia kill you to remove the vig, or you kill me and everyone suspects you.
1. So long as I Vig someone today it's fine. Basically I'm giving the town two lynches in one day. I'm only aimed at you because you're my highest suspect.
2. You're threatening the town with your death. "You'll be sorry if you kill me" is very VERY ugly, since it's less "I'm not scum because of this" and more "Kill me and you're next." You also attempt to curse me by isolating the options: there's nothing wrong with me vigging someone else.
You definately want to change your tone if your interested in avoiding this.
Post by: SirBayer on November 10, 2009, 02:16:39 pm
RAEG
Did you people completely forget the part where I said precisely that two or three pages ago? And, in fact, thought we might want to NL so that the scum gets nailed down (given that it's supposed to be a today-only effect)? Or were you all too busy examining your navels?
Sorry, Vector - I just saw that part. *sheepish*
Anyway, nobody noticed. Apparently your mention wasn't FURYTASTIC enough for anyone. *shrug* Either way, we both reached the same conclusion independently, but it's the right conclusion. So no Cheeetar, no webadict lynching, and... we avoid unvoting unless positively necessary. The only other trick here is that the Homunculus may be able to do that again - although I doubt it, thinking back. I think that threat is done and won't come by again. I hope.
Dakarian: I'd support a vig on ExKirby, looking back across the pages. If you feel the need, go ahead.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 10, 2009, 02:26:20 pm
Considering how he's already told what he is, stopping another lynch would be suicide for him. Note that the mafia can't just waste a death just to nolynch.
Seriously guys. Stop the nonscum lynching. Killing Web because's he's a prick. Killing Shadow because he writes in 3 words for one day. Killing Eduren even though a nolynch will mean he frys (when we get close to lylo, it'll be another matter).
Meanwhile, no one wants to comment on my findings about ExKirby? You can't beat information gathered after a confirmed scum dies.
ALSO
@Web
What did you get last night, since it's pretty much a sure bet that you used it just in case you get to live one more day?
If he's scum alive at lylo, unless we lynch him that night, we lose. He can block any lynch on his buddies. Hell, if I was scum as him, I'd block every lynch, just to WIFOM the town.
It's also quite possible that he can't actually block lynches, we never did test that. I think he was just defending Webadict.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 10, 2009, 02:48:11 pm
Meph is active lurking = scummy.
Neruz is scum = scum.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 10, 2009, 02:51:47 pm
Meph is active lurking = scummy.Yeah... Where's that pressure you promised me eh?
Post by: ExKirby on November 10, 2009, 02:52:00 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 10, 2009, 02:53:45 pm
Meph is active lurking = scummy.Yeah... Where's that pressure you promised me eh?
Pardon? I'm all out of water.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 10, 2009, 02:54:19 pm
Meph is active lurking = scummy.Yeah... Where's that pressure you promised me eh?
I'll do that come Lunchtime. Been too busy to keep up with this thread so far, so I need time to go back and reread some stuff.
Post by: ExKirby on November 10, 2009, 02:57:10 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 10, 2009, 02:59:51 pm
OK... kill me. But I actually have a power role this time, and quite a good one at that.
What's this nonsense?
Post by: ExKirby on November 10, 2009, 03:01:21 pm
Explains the dissapearance, but the link between leaf and you is still there.This is the nonsense.
@everyone
Anyone have an issue with an ExKirby Vig and a Rash lynch today?
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 10, 2009, 03:01:28 pm
Mafia... The only forum game that feels like homework. >_<Meph is active lurking = scummy.Yeah... Where's that pressure you promised me eh?
I'll do that come Lunchtime. Been too busy to keep up with this thread so far, so I need time to go back and reread some stuff.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 10, 2009, 03:05:25 pm
Explains the dissapearance, but the link between leaf and you is still there.This is the nonsense.
@everyone
Anyone have an issue with an ExKirby Vig and a Rash lynch today?
Giving up is nonsense.
Post by: SirBayer on November 10, 2009, 03:11:22 pm
Mafia... The only forum game that feels like homework. >_<Meph is active lurking = scummy.Yeah... Where's that pressure you promised me eh?
I'll do that come Lunchtime. Been too busy to keep up with this thread so far, so I need time to go back and reread some stuff.
Shadowdump, you no longer have the restriction. Start acting like it. Contribute while you've got the chance.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 10, 2009, 03:21:10 pm
But seriously,I operate on 'spur of the moment' principles, if I catch something interesting I'll work with that, but the hell if I'm going to be obligated to go searching around for crap.
Post by: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 03:25:36 pm
Btw, it IS that defeatism that causes the issue, since brings about a "he's giving up because he's town.. but wait.." WIFOM jamboree. If you can explain your actions in day 1 then do so.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 10, 2009, 03:27:04 pm
You said you have a good role. Claim then.Uh... Me?
Post by: Mr.Person on November 10, 2009, 03:31:01 pm
You said you have a good role. Claim then.
Btw, it IS that defeatism that causes the issue, since brings about a "he's giving up because he's town.. but wait.." WIFOM jamboree. If you can explain your actions in day 1 then do so.
Rolefishing, you're scum. Target claiming might not be a bad idea, but a full on roleclaim? What's your deal, that's scummy as fuck.
Post by: ExKirby on November 10, 2009, 03:32:44 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 10, 2009, 03:33:21 pm
Mr.Person, you may be on to something. Dak, I want to hear more from you.
Buddying, bandwagoning, etc.
Post by: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 03:35:23 pm
I'd also like Rash to explain his past actions.
@Person
ExKirby is, to me, L-1. I'm one post away from killing him and he's doing nothing to defend himself except suggesting that he has a great role. When someone is about to die you allow a claim before they die as a last ditch effort. Web did that, although it didn't save him.
Two alternatives is to either accept 'defeatism' as a town tell or just vig him right here and now. A third is if someone can tell me why my argument against him is flawed.
Post by: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 03:36:44 pm
Because I'm just about done with you.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 10, 2009, 03:37:10 pm
ExKirby :P
I'd also like Rash to explain his past actions.
@Person
ExKirby is, to me, L-1. I'm one post away from killing him and he's doing nothing to defend himself except suggesting that he has a great role. When someone is about to die you allow a claim before they die as a last ditch effort. Web did that, although it didn't save him.
Two alternatives is to either accept 'defeatism' as a town tell or just vig him right here and now. A third is if someone can tell me why my argument against him is flawed.
It would of been nice of you had told us you were about to vig kill him. Ok, that's fine, I guess.
Post by: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 03:47:47 pm
You're starting to bother me with this rush job.
I have NOT vigged him yet. I'm posting this now so that everyone can know what I'm aiming for and so that I can be sure I didn't miss anything.
Trust me, you'll know it when you see it.
Now, since you want to fuss so much about the side issues behind this, how about commenting ABOUT the issue.
How does ExKirby look to you? Is he scummy enough to be killed? If so, why?
Is he not scummy? If so then why because I REALLY don't want to be vigging the wrong person.
Are you not sure? If so then why in the world does ExKirby still show up as null after over 40 pages of text?
Post by: SirBayer on November 10, 2009, 03:50:42 pm
ExKirby :P
I'd also like Rash to explain his past actions.
@Person
ExKirby is, to me, L-1. I'm one post away from killing him and he's doing nothing to defend himself except suggesting that he has a great role. When someone is about to die you allow a claim before they die as a last ditch effort. Web did that, although it didn't save him.
Two alternatives is to either accept 'defeatism' as a town tell or just vig him right here and now. A third is if someone can tell me why my argument against him is flawed.
It would of been nice of you had told us you were about to vig kill him. Ok, that's fine, I guess.
He did.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 10, 2009, 03:54:34 pm
Just for now...INSTANT UNVOTE WHEN SOMEONE ELSE TELLS HIM I'M NOT SCUM!Webadict IS NOT SCUM.Interesting...
Unvote Webadict
That's really scummy.
Can you explain this a bit better? You go on about webadict forever and then just unvote because Toony says he's not scum. It's obviously not because of Eduren's block, since you didn't seem to notice it at the time.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 10, 2009, 04:09:06 pm
I was interested in Toon's arguement, aaand... I have no idea why I let myself switch like that... The only reason I did was Toony's WEBADICT IS NOT SCUM in big shiny letters.Just for now...INSTANT UNVOTE WHEN SOMEONE ELSE TELLS HIM I'M NOT SCUM!Webadict IS NOT SCUM.Interesting...
Unvote Webadict
That's really scummy.
Can you explain this a bit better? You go on about webadict forever and then just unvote because Toony says he's not scum. It's obviously not because of Eduren's block, since you didn't seem to notice it at the time.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 10, 2009, 04:28:17 pm
However, ExKirby is bugging me more, so he gets my vote for now. His main defense seems to be 'don't kill me! I've got a good role and don't want to die!', which really isn't that helpful.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 10, 2009, 04:35:14 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 04:47:56 pm
For example Rashilul has a good bit to answer to.
Post by: Eduren on November 10, 2009, 04:58:46 pm
Mr.Person, you may be on to something. Dak, I want to hear more from you.Wow. You are definitely acting scummy.
I have no problem with Dakarian taking Exkirby out.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 10, 2009, 05:09:54 pm
In other words, I'm going to ignore it.
Post by: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 05:20:51 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 05:24:33 pm
The safest road I can think of is to just be careful of unvotes today. So long as you do that, we can just pretend it doesn't exist.
Now to just wait for Rash to speak up.
Btw.. yes, ExKirby is no more.
Post by: Zai on November 10, 2009, 05:32:50 pm
I voted Zaithe
What. The. Fuck. That doesn't even come from my name anymore. I got it changed because I got tired of people doing this. Stop. Or I make you stop. >=O
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 10, 2009, 05:59:18 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on November 10, 2009, 05:59:57 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 10, 2009, 06:26:55 pm
Quote
ExKirby - Rook
You're a chess piece, adept at moving in straight lines, worth roughly five pawns- wait, no. You're actually a Rook, a bird of the species Corvus frugilegus. You are intelligent, capable of making tools with your beak, and folk tales claim you are responsible for escorting souls of the virtuous dead to heaven. You may speak with all dead players in the BYOR Dead Chat, here: [REDACTED]
You win when all scum are dead.
Post by: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 06:35:27 pm
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 10, 2009, 07:14:26 pm
Here's the order in which he mentions people:
ExKirby
ShadowDUMP
Dakarian
SirBayer
Neruz
Rashilul
ToonyMan
Org
Mephansteras(First time mention on page 24)
Zaithemaster
Woah... rather a lot of pages since I was last here. I'll go through my top suspects now. Unvote.
Webadict: Ok, what the hell? Passivity, weak attacks, weak defense, weak everything... it's almost as if you're trying to avoid detection! When on earth does town webadict do this?
Mephansteras: Useless questions, and yes, they do resemble the questions he asked in Bay 12 Mafia in order to try and appear as if he was doing something and scumhunting. Town Meph seems to be significantly more aggressive.
Rashilul: My vote was on you originally, and while you haven't given me any real reason to remove it, I'm unvoting in order to put more pressure on webadict, who has now surpassed you in terms of scumminess. However, you've come up with a list of scum, but you don't seem to have acted on it, nor do you seem to have pressured any of the members of this list at all. How come?
Dakarian: Actually, he seems to be acting like he usually does as town. I certainly wouldn't clear him of being scum, but he's not on my main list at the moment.
Zaithemaster: Ok, what the hell is up with this post:Quote1) I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't be so condescending, Your Royal Highness. 2) I'm not trying to convince anybody here right now, and therefore do not need to explain my vote. I'll leave that to Dak, who I think will be much more persuasive. If he starts being scummy again, votes shall change.Leaving someone else to attack for you is the very definition of passivity! You should be doing your own scumhunting, not just waiting for a super poster, who's not totally guarenteed to be town anyway, to do it for you.
Lurkers: Argh, there's too many of them. For now, however, I'd prefer a lynch on someone who's acting scummily than someone who hasn't posted yet. One day we might get our 10 votes on someone...
He deflects suspicion to webadict, away from Mephansteras. It's subtle, but it's there. I thought Mephansteras was suspicious this entire game, but Leaf's interaction with him makes me look all the more critically. He's been active-lurking (though I'm not one to talk -- I've lurked more than I'd like) and his contributions have been minimal.
Unvote Webadict.
Vote Mephansteras.
Also, FoS on Neruz for the reasons I've stated before.
Post by: Neruz on November 10, 2009, 07:56:24 pm
And guess what? Neruz is lurking.
And guess what, i live in a +11 timezone and was ASLEEP.
Now to go back over this thread again. Bah.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 10, 2009, 08:03:31 pm
ASLEEP.This is why I'd announce my bed-time.
Post by: Neruz on November 10, 2009, 08:15:38 pm
Fine, next time i sleep i shall post about it, happy?
I am now Staring Intently at Mephansteras, because after re-reading the last few pages i've just noticed that his questions seem to often lack relevance, and have never gained any useful information.This looks off for a townie searching for information, but right on for a scum trying to pretend to search for information, but actually not doing so.
Post by: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 08:22:20 pm
Mephansteras: Randomvotes Vista (joke), then is the 2nd to vote for Neruz due to his 'logic being a bit off', He then is the 2nd to vote for shadow until we find out about the post restriction. After that, he's back on Neruz and stays on him with regular pressure.
The only thing after this in D1 would be this quote:
Quote
Two more to hammer?
Hmmm...
All right. Unvote Neruz. Vote Zai.
My reason is simple, I want to see if anyone is going to hammer him. If he's scum, as so many people think, killing him is good. If not, we'll have a lot of information to go on.
It's a slight Lolwhat since it shows he doesn't' seem to feel that Zai is scum (if he's scum, as so many people think) and isn't concerned.
D2 he's been passive, which is odd since he had been curious over who would fling the hammer and wanted to push Shadow once the restriction ended. Shadow commented on the lack of pressure and was given a "too busy" response, though he brought one issue up later, which, when replied to, resulted in an "you're still suspect" then left alone in order to join the attack on ExKirby.
....
He does look rather blah. so does Rash though.
I'd like to hear from both now about this situation.
Post by: SirBayer on November 10, 2009, 08:25:36 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 08:29:46 pm
Other than WIFOMing myself with a "what if he's faking it" how in the world was I supposed to see him as anything other than scum?
Post by: Eduren on November 10, 2009, 08:34:26 pm
Zai was a jester who is being nominated for an award on how well he played. He suceeded in looking incredibly scummy without looking like he was faking it.I believe that Bayer got confused with this
Other than WIFOMing myself with a "what if he's faking it" how in the world was I supposed to see him as anything other than scum?
Quote from: you
(if he's scum, as so many people think)You dropped the past tense there. I believe it was a mistake on both of your parts.
That said, nice over-reaction dude.
Post by: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 08:44:18 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 10, 2009, 08:52:49 pm
Spoiler: the rest (click to show/hide)
Question for dakarian: What numbers are in the games that led to the statistics-based 3rd/4th vote scum tell? I am skeptical of its value in a 19 person game.
...Meph, could you clarify: was the pressure allegedly promised intended to be on Shad0w?
webadict, webadict, webadict: "Also, Rashilul is very scummy."Why are you waiting to be prodded to explain yourself? At least you've started explaining. I'm taking the mod at face value-it is very strange that the mod throws us a "bone" effectively saying "don't lynch webadict today either". I really doubt there's two jesters. On the KWN now rule, it's fine to kill them, if you get them to claim in some detail first, as then their flip will show the new 'webadict's role, rather than theirs. And, without cooperation, they can't get access to those role details. This is a crazy bunch of WIFOM to keep us from killing Webadict, to me. I'm sticking to him. I mean, it seemed like the town jumped off him at eduren's pardon. Now that we CAN lynch webadict, we SHOULD.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 10, 2009, 08:58:20 pm
Zai was a jester who is being nominated for an award on how well he played. He suceeded in looking incredibly scummy without looking like he was faking it.I believe that Bayer got confused with this
Other than WIFOMing myself with a "what if he's faking it" how in the world was I supposed to see him as anything other than scum?Quote from: you(if he's scum, as so many people think)You dropped the past tense there. I believe it was a mistake on both of your parts.
That said, nice over-reaction dude.
The only over-reaction here is your over-reaction to a nonexistant over-reaction. Scum.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 10, 2009, 08:59:29 pm
Toony: "Neruz is scum = scum" ...unexplained vote...what's up with that, Toony?
What's up with that? Cobalt, I can just quote the latest thing he's said and it reeks of scum tells.
Bah, whinge whinge whinge.
Fine, next time i sleep i shall post about it, happy?
I am now Staring Intently at Mephansteras, because after re-reading the last few pages i've just noticed that his questions seem to often lack relevance, and have never gained any useful information.This looks off for a townie searching for information, but right on for a scum trying to pretend to search for information, but actually not doing so.
Passive, buddying, manipulative, etc...
Post by: ToonyMan on November 10, 2009, 09:00:41 pm
Post by: Eduren on November 10, 2009, 09:01:48 pm
Other than WIFOMing myself with a "what if he's faking it" how in the world was I supposed to see him as anything other than scum?
Post by: Neruz on November 10, 2009, 09:15:05 pm
I'm not going to go screw myself by saying, "Well, he's just like RedWarrior and Org and Eduren and Diakron..." because then he'll get away.
So then why did you say it?
Post by: ToonyMan on November 10, 2009, 09:15:44 pm
I'm not going to go screw myself by saying, "Well, he's just like RedWarrior and Org and Eduren and Diakron..." because then he'll get away.
So then why did you say it?
Um....
SO YOU DON'T GET AWAY SCUM?
Post by: ToonyMan on November 10, 2009, 09:16:34 pm
I see what you did there.
Funny.
Scumdude.
Post by: Neruz on November 10, 2009, 09:36:45 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 10, 2009, 09:45:59 pm
Right back atcha Toony, my friend.
This quote means nothing.
Post by: Neruz on November 10, 2009, 09:46:35 pm
Right back atcha Toony, my friend.
This quote means nothing.
So does this.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 10, 2009, 09:47:20 pm
Why aren't you dead.
WEBADICT COME AND FINISH THE JOB.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 10, 2009, 09:48:05 pm
Right back atcha Toony, my friend.
This quote means nothing.
So does this.
This doesn't either.
...
Oh come on! I just wanna be cool!
Post by: Neruz on November 10, 2009, 09:49:12 pm
>_>
Why aren't you dead.
WEBADICT COME AND FINISH THE JOB.
TARGET ME WEBADICT, TARGET MEEE! I WANT ALL YOUR VOTES, ALL OF THEM!
Post by: ToonyMan on November 10, 2009, 09:50:24 pm
I don't know what to make of you Neruz. I really hope you're scum.
Post by: Neruz on November 10, 2009, 09:53:21 pm
I demand votes!
Post by: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 09:54:13 pm
About the blocking
It still doesn't explain the leafsnail death. Unless there's a Superkiller or a double killer out there. I still believe Leaf used his power.
About ExKirby
Odd you wrote that ExKirby was asleep/asking to be replaced when you later write that he was acting defeatist. Why odd? ExKirby's defeatist streak was in response to me presenting my case against him and telling of my intention to vig. As such, I DID give him an opening to defend himself and I get Meh that even you find a mess.
About # of scum
Meh. 4 scum were in total, so now there's 3 scum that were scum in D1 and one convert.
About the '3rd vote'. Nearly every BM, a large batch of chat mafia games, and even in this one, since Leafsnail ended up being the 3rd vote on Webadict's bandwagon. I dislike most of the old tells but this is one that keeps working time after time.
I don't LYNCH for it, but it's a good tool to focus fire with.
About web
That he needed to be prodded (again) to explain himself is noted. He HAS explained his reasoning to his attacks, though (just with plenty of prodding). That alone makes me wary of his lynch. The matter of the KWN rule is pure WIFOM against the host.
In other words, why is Rash less scummy than Web?
Post by: SirBayer on November 10, 2009, 09:55:46 pm
Post by: Neruz on November 10, 2009, 09:56:09 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 10, 2009, 10:09:02 pm
Well, it goes like this. Town justifies its votes and accusations. Scum want to basically get anyone lynched, which is harder if you have to justify it- so we go after the people who are not bothering to support their own actions. Either can come back and justify it after the fact, and either can rely on others' reasoning. Scum don't want to come up with reasoning, I think.Toony: "Neruz is scum = scum" ...unexplained vote...what's up with that, Toony?
What's up with that? Cobalt, I can just quote the latest thing he's said and it reeks of scum tells.(snip)
Passive, buddying, manipulative, etc...
...I'm not sure if the wording is good here, but I think I conveyed the idea?
PPE: 7 new replies!
Well, um...wow. You two're illustrating my point pretty nicely here.Right back atcha Toony, my friend.
This quote means nothing.
So does this.
PPE2: Four new replies.
Dakarian: "reflection" or "bus-drive" on a mafia improved kill is also an option. The list is morel ike your scan-notes- they're written as I read- something interesting comes up, I add it/them to the list. (My conclusion that he was asleep was based on that the last post he made was his last activity) "4 scum total"- that was what I was trying to point out, I guess I didn't make it very clear.
Why is rash less scummy than web...well, the main thrust is that web is the scum that I can see, and rashilul is the maybe-scum that is hiding. I also get the feeling that rashilul is new, though that may mean nothing- and his absences seem to be RL-induced. Rashilul merely seems to have scummy behaviour- not that this isn't something- but Webadict is using scum-reasoning, that is, hypocrisy, to me, and his attacks are strangely weak all over.
Speaking of Webadict, where is he? You out there, buddy?yeurgh.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 10, 2009, 10:11:29 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 10, 2009, 10:12:33 pm
Post by: Neruz on November 10, 2009, 10:15:04 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 10, 2009, 10:17:14 pm
Post by: Vector on November 10, 2009, 10:23:38 pm
1. Someone who gains a vote for every person who is voting him
2. Mafia who wants to WIFOM us into thinking he has such a role, thus causing us not to vote him.
Post by: Neruz on November 10, 2009, 10:38:15 pm
Are you mafia Neruz?
No.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 10, 2009, 10:44:22 pm
Are you mafia Neruz?
No.
Well thanks for that! This is the only thing you have done that IS NOT SCUMMY.
Post by: Vector on November 10, 2009, 10:46:26 pm
Exkirby-town.
(By which I mean "the sort of town that would claim Jester")
Post by: Neruz on November 10, 2009, 10:52:22 pm
Are you mafia Neruz?
No.
Well thanks for that! This is the only thing you have done that IS NOT SCUMMY.
Wait, since when is declaring that you are not scum not scummy? What?
Post by: ToonyMan on November 10, 2009, 10:53:20 pm
Got it?
Post by: Neruz on November 10, 2009, 10:54:03 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 10, 2009, 10:56:21 pm
Nope, i am afraid i do not speak town.
Post by: webadict on November 10, 2009, 11:07:35 pm
It used to be because you didn't explain your reasons and you were being a big prick, and then it was because your reasoning was bad and you were a big prick. And then it was because your roleclaim was extremely suspicious.So... when you were being a jerk... that was a legitimate reason to vote for me?
Wouldn't it be funny if ExKirby died for no reason whatsoever?Ah, so that's your killing line. You say this and it kills someone once.
Anyhow, Leafsnail used his powers. And, if you're all afraid of that STUPID WIFOM, here's a great big list for everyone, because I'll likely be killed anyway, now won't I :P :
Eduren
ToonyMan
Webadict
Org
CobaltKobold
Rashilul
RedWarrior0
Vector
Mr.Person
Mephansteras
Apostolic Nihilist
SirBayer
Cheeetar
Neruz
Dakarian
SHAD0WDump
Unvote
This way, if I die, and the role turns up as Pandarsenic, you'll know I was converted.
And to answer your question, dak, I WAS FLIPPIN' ROLEBLOCKED! BY ORG! There was no reason to roleblock me, especially after I claimed Cop. Obviously, there's a real problem with your thinking, or you didn't want me to use my power.
Now, why is that?
Post by: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 11:21:02 pm
I think I get your reasoning. In that view, Web would look worse.
Fakeedit:
Want to hear something stupid: I didn't piece 2 and 2 together:
Web has a role that can find the PM of a player.
Org blocks Web from using that power.
Now we get a KWN rule pop up to try to off him.
yes, that did NOT dawn on me till Web said it just now.
Post by: Neruz on November 10, 2009, 11:23:23 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 10, 2009, 11:39:32 pm
Now we get a KWN rule pop up to try to off him....from where I'm standing, it's a "to try to not kill him", as he's been unvoted.
IF you're going by the old KWN rules.
BUT I already explained that the roleflip tells us whether that's the case, ne?
votecount
Post by: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 11:50:39 pm
Passiveness catches my eye above a delayed reason, which puts Rash above web.
@Cobalt
Given that killing him removes the chance of him using his role, since he was blocked before, and since the rule goes away tomorrow, I'd like to only lynch him once I'm sure he's scum and NOT just to try to outguess the mod.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 11, 2009, 01:19:14 am
So... when you were being a jerk...How so.
webadict, webadict, webadict: "Also, Rashilul is very scummy."Why are you waiting to be prodded to explain yourself? At least you've started explaining. I'm taking the mod at face value-it is very strange that the mod throws us a "bone" effectively saying "don't lynch webadict today either". I really doubt there's two jesters. On the KWN now rule, it's fine to kill them, if you get them to claim in some detail first, as then their flip will show the new 'webadict's role, rather than theirs. And, without cooperation, they can't get access to those role details. This is a crazy bunch of WIFOM to keep us from killing Webadict, to me. I'm sticking to him. I mean, it seemed like the town jumped off him at eduren's pardon. Now that we CAN lynch webadict, we SHOULD.The only reason I'm not voting Webadict is because I think he is a jester. It would explain the gigantic prickishness and the non-existent/lame reasoning.
Webadict, he could have roleblocked you because he didn't trust you, which is a valid suspicion. If you're the most scummy to someone, they can roleblock you regardless of what you claim. Claiming proves nothing.
Unvote Meph, vote Neruz: You're trying to WIFOM us so we don't vote for you, implying that you have some sort of special power without outright claiming for some reason. If you're going to draw that much attention to yourself about your role, why not just claim? Also, Toony is saying that the only thing that you have done that a town would do is say 'I'm not scum', because no town would say that they were scum.
Post by: Neruz on November 11, 2009, 01:35:24 am
Also, i am not implying i have some sort of special power at all, i am merely declaring that i want all your votes.
No scum would say that they were scum either.
Quote
If you're going to draw that much attention to yourself about your role, why not just claim?
Draw attention to myself? I already had plenty of attention. I can claim if you like, but my power isn't anything to write home about unless there's a cop around here somewhere, and even then considering i'm not scum it's not really very useful.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 11, 2009, 01:44:35 am
Also, i am not implying i have some sort of special power at all, i am merely declaring that i want all your votes.
I don't want to be lynched, i want to steal all your votes. Muahahaha.
Post by: Neruz on November 11, 2009, 01:45:51 am
Also, i am not implying i have some sort of special power at all, i am merely declaring that i want all your votes.I don't want to be lynched, i want to steal all your votes. Muahahaha.
Yep, my votes, you leave my votes alone you vote thief.
Post by: dakarian on November 11, 2009, 01:48:16 am
Is what you are doing, in any way in your mind, trying to actually stop the scum?
Is the fact that much of everyone has turned from hunting the enemy to figuring out what to do with you actually helping us win?
Or have you stopped caring about whether you win or lose and just want to laugh at everyone?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 11, 2009, 01:51:35 am
Post by: Neruz on November 11, 2009, 01:58:49 am
Is what you are doing, in any way in your mind, trying to actually stop the scum?
Well there's probably not a whole lot of point in keeping this up any longer.
What i was doing was providing a deliberate opening, i was looking to see if a few people instantly jumped on me with no real explaination, something which i did indeed see. Which is why i'm now fairly confident in voting ToonyMan. Assuming i havn't voted someone already, if so, Unvote, then vote ToonyMan.
webadict i'm still wary about, but i'm definitely pointing the mighty Finger of Suspicion at him, i'm also pointing the mighty finger at Cheetar, who apparantly elected to vote for me entirely due to a bit of WIFOM. WIFOM is an excellent addition to your scumtells, but is very little to go on by itself.
I am also Staring Intently at MrPerson, i don't really think he's scum, since he's always suspcious of me regardless of my real affinity, but i like to keep an eyeball on him anyway.
Finally, i'm eyeballing the people who appear to have not reacted to me at all, mostly because the only people i can think of who would not react at all would be those who already know i am Town (The Mafya), but that's not really enough to go on for even an intent stare.
Is the fact that much of everyone has turned from hunting the enemy to figuring out what to do with you actually helping us win?
Eh, difficult to tell at this point. But i'd say that much of everyone has not turned to figuring out what to do with me, many have not in fact, mostly i wanted to gauge reactions.
Or have you stopped caring about whether you win or lose and just want to laugh at everyone?
Little of column A, little of column B. I'm in this to have fun
Quote
Neruz, if scum, has only one hope at this moment. Get even more crazy until we think she's (pre-emptive apology if I got that wrong) a jester/vote stealer.
I would like to inform you that i do in fact possess a penis.
Post by: dakarian on November 11, 2009, 02:12:43 am
2.
Mr.Person:
Who do you think is scummy enough to be lynched right now?
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 11, 2009, 02:47:18 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 11, 2009, 02:59:32 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 11, 2009, 03:14:09 am
ExKirby [1]: Dakarian
Rashilul [2]: Eduren, Webadict
Mephansteras [1]: Apostolic Nihilist
Eduren [1]: Mr.Person
Dakarian [1]: SirBayer
Neruz [2]: ToonyMan, Cheeetar
Org [1]: Webadict
ToonyMan [1]: Neruz
Webadict is not counted as having voted for anyone but Org. Votes & Unvotes within a single post are ignored.
Please inform me of any errors.
Post by: Neruz on November 11, 2009, 03:28:20 am
Webadict has a [?] for his vote count again.
Fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 11, 2009, 03:33:34 am
1.meh
2.
Mr.Person:
Who do you think is scummy enough to be lynched right now?
I still say that Neruz should be lynched before lylo, I'm going to throw that out there. I'm going to keep my vote on him, too.
Hmm... something's wrong with ToonyMan. He's acting like a person trying to act like ToonyMan.
Post by: Neruz on November 11, 2009, 03:37:09 am
Post by: Mr.Person on November 11, 2009, 03:40:23 am
That makes a surprisingly strange amount of sense, all things considered.
Sorry, I meant Eduren. Argh, don't post in the middle of the night, self.
Neruz, you're funky, but I'm going to say you're town. Generally speaking, scum doesn't pull stunts. Plus, I never really understood where the original suspicion of you came from.
Post by: Neruz on November 11, 2009, 03:51:43 am
Personally i felt this was an extremely accurate and perfectly reasonable reason to lynch someone, hence why i was fine with taking everyone's vote.
Post by: Org on November 11, 2009, 07:01:07 am
...You claimed cop? OH SHIII--It used to be because you didn't explain your reasons and you were being a big prick, and then it was because your reasoning was bad and you were a big prick. And then it was because your roleclaim was extremely suspicious.So... when you were being a jerk... that was a legitimate reason to vote for me?Wouldn't it be funny if ExKirby died for no reason whatsoever?Ah, so that's your killing line. You say this and it kills someone once.
Anyhow, Leafsnail used his powers. And, if you're all afraid of that STUPID WIFOM, here's a great big list for everyone, because I'll likely be killed anyway, now won't I :P :
Eduren
ToonyMan
Webadict
Org
CobaltKobold
Rashilul
RedWarrior0
Vector
Mr.Person
Mephansteras
Apostolic Nihilist
SirBayer
Cheeetar
Neruz
Dakarian
SHAD0WDump
Unvote
This way, if I die, and the role turns up as Pandarsenic, you'll know I was converted.
And to answer your question, dak, I WAS FLIPPIN' ROLEBLOCKED! BY ORG! There was no reason to roleblock me, especially after I claimed Cop. Obviously, there's a real problem with your thinking, or you didn't want me to use my power.
Now, why is that?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 11, 2009, 08:04:19 am
Post by: ToonyMan on November 11, 2009, 10:09:19 am
So, YOU ACTED SCUMMY ON PURPOSE TO SEE IF "SCUM" WOULD VOTE YOU?
Dude, Town is going to vote you too FOR BEING SCUMMY.
Post by: SirBayer on November 11, 2009, 11:32:35 am
@Cobalt
I think I get your reasoning. In that view, Web would look worse.
Fakeedit:
Want to hear something stupid: I didn't piece 2 and 2 together:
Web has a role that can find the PM of a player.
Org blocks Web from using that power.
Now we get a KWN rule pop up to try to off him.
yes, that did NOT dawn on me till Web said it just now.
I must be a retard or something because I'm not entirely sure I get this statement. Do you mean that Org might be a Webadict-type Role or Webadict himself might be it?
Furthermore: I must emphasize this with large text: UNVOTE WEBADICT. WE MUST NOT KILL WEBADICT.
Silly, some of you may say. What's the worst that can happen?
Panda told me about the powers that the Webadict had in KWN. They were obscene. We CANNOT afford to have someone with those powers running around, especially if they're mafia, which means that we CANNOT KILL HIM TODAY. It might be safer to just nolynch and find out what happens.
A side note to webadict: If you were roleblocked last night, I can't claim any responsibility for it, but if it was a roleblock that takes effect tonight, that was me, accidentally. I'll explain when it's time for me to claim.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 11, 2009, 12:30:50 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 11, 2009, 12:32:07 pm
No lynch? Why are you so sure about not killing Wbeadict?
Post by: Vector on November 11, 2009, 12:39:30 pm
SirBayer. I'm 90% certain you are the role that started this whole, "Kill Webadict Now Rule".
Where does this come from?
And you're being scummy.
No lynch? Why are you so sure about not killing Wbeadict?
Also, he's just parroting me. As usual. If you want my reasoning, you can look a couple pages back.
Actually, SirBayer. Why are you copying my statements?
Post by: Vector on November 11, 2009, 12:44:44 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 11, 2009, 12:45:17 pm
SirBayer. I'm 90% certain you are the role that started this whole, "Kill Webadict Now Rule".
Where does this come from?
The latest thing he just said. The whole not killing Webadict bit, I have a feeling.
Post by: Vector on November 11, 2009, 12:54:15 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 11, 2009, 01:45:38 pm
I was just noticing that there seems to be a lot of effort towards trying to get webadict killed before he could do anything.
As for his powers, they are impressive. One shots of Mimic, Nexus, Bus, Redirect and Cheat (that PM seer Web is already claiming). He can also kill WHILE performing one of those actions.
As far as what to do with him, I'll leave him be, at least until the role passes. Sir seems to also have a plan so that'll be something to look into tomorrow.
As for today:
@Mod A prod for Rashlil?
I hate when my targets disappear.
As for Neruz, I'm unfamliar in Refuge in Audacity and how often scum actually try to use it. That he's going after Toonyman for thinking him scummy while...acting scummy just sounds about as broken as you can get. Unless he can show how Toonyman wasn't just jumping on the scummiest person (you know, like we SHOULD be doing) then I'll be willing to see if RiA can catch scum as well as 3rd vote can.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 11, 2009, 02:21:35 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 11, 2009, 02:25:56 pm
Refuge of Audacity is when you do something SO CRAZY nobody can say you're scum.
Because scum would never do that.
And WIFOM. Lot's of WIFOM.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 11, 2009, 02:28:14 pm
Post by: webadict on November 11, 2009, 02:28:24 pm
Woot, more votes for me!... DOES NO ONE LISTEN TO MY CLAIMS?!?!?
Also, i am not implying i have some sort of special power at all, i am merely declaring that i want all your votes.
No scum would say that they were scum either.QuoteIf you're going to draw that much attention to yourself about your role, why not just claim?
Draw attention to myself? I already had plenty of attention. I can claim if you like, but my power isn't anything to write home about unless there's a cop around here somewhere, and even then considering i'm not scum it's not really very useful.
Also, Org, I really doubt you didn't know.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 11, 2009, 02:35:02 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on November 11, 2009, 03:33:28 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 11, 2009, 03:43:56 pm
In fact, the only person he's really been heavy was Zai and he was as scummy as they come.
Post by: Rashilul on November 11, 2009, 03:46:47 pm
Post by: Eduren on November 11, 2009, 03:49:09 pm
Btw, Fos Person for picking a new person to 'attack' each and almost every post.
In fact, the only person he's really been heavy was Zai and he was as scummy as they come.
Really? He's been pushing for my lynch all day.
And TBH, I'm confused. Since somebody said to stop unvoting, I did. But what is going on?
Post by: Rashilul on November 11, 2009, 03:51:39 pm
Post by: Rashilul on November 11, 2009, 03:59:11 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 11, 2009, 04:18:02 pm
Btw, Fos Person for picking a new person to 'attack' each and almost every post.
In fact, the only person he's really been heavy was Zai and he was as scummy as they come.
Really? He's been pushing for my lynch all day.
And TBH, I'm confused. Since somebody said to stop unvoting, I did. But what is going on?
You were scum in BYOR Webadict Edition.
You were confused and did not know what was going on.
Eduren.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 11, 2009, 04:37:45 pm
So, Neruz claims to have acted wonky in order to see who would vote for him without much explanation. Interesting. Could be Neruz being odd (he's done that before), or it could be him deliberately being a scum-focus to draw suspicion off from his buddies. He did that in Wizard Duel 1 to some effect.
Webadict has all sorts of fun WIFOM going on with the rule. But I don't think he's the one we need to worry about. I also don't think Leafsnail was killed. If he had been, I might have been able to learn something about it.
About Org blocking webadict...he seems to act pretty much randomly, as town or scum. In fact, when he's scum he makes very odd choices unless heavily coached by the rest of the scum. So I could see him blocking Web without noticing the cop claim. Doesn't make him town, though, since he could have done a random choice as scum just as easily.
Neruz, I still say you're scum. You've blatantly bandwagoned, you're trying to WIFOM the town with your 'vote stealing' powers, and I think you're trying to get us to focus on you and not your buddies. Fine, let's lynch you and find them later.
Post by: dakarian on November 11, 2009, 05:06:43 pm
Meh, you're right. All he did was go back and forth between you an Neruz with a small dash of me for RFings.
@Meph
Storywise, Leafsnail didn't 'die' but instead switched his identity with someone else and silently killed them.
mechanically, leafsnail, the player, is removed from the game and someone else has been converted. Storywise, leafsnail is alive while looking like someone else. As such, there's nothing to look at.
Neruz's next few posts will determine his actions for me.
As for Org.. the block IS a null tell at the moment. meh
Post by: Mephansteras on November 11, 2009, 05:10:12 pm
@Meph
Storywise, Leafsnail didn't 'die' but instead switched his identity with someone else and silently killed them.
mechanically, leafsnail, the player, is removed from the game and someone else has been converted. Storywise, leafsnail is alive while looking like someone else. As such, there's nothing to look at.
I realize, but since there still seems to be discussion about whether or not he was killed instead of using his power...I thought I'd throw that out there.
Post by: dirtybirdy on November 11, 2009, 06:12:10 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 11, 2009, 06:14:43 pm
e
lmnop
Post by: Mephansteras on November 11, 2009, 06:15:21 pm
e
The heck???
Post by: ToonyMan on November 11, 2009, 06:16:20 pm
This place does need to get more active though. :-/
Post by: dakarian on November 11, 2009, 06:29:30 pm
2. Rash is still 'reading over things' before he can say anything.
Post by: Neruz on November 11, 2009, 06:51:53 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 11, 2009, 06:54:51 pm
As for Neruz, I'm unfamliar in Refuge in Audacity and how often scum actually try to use it. That he's going after Toonyman for thinking him scummy while...acting scummy just sounds about as broken as you can get. Unless he can show how Toonyman wasn't just jumping on the scummiest person (you know, like we SHOULD be doing) then I'll be willing to see if RiA can catch scum as well as 3rd vote can.
Basicaly, show me how Toony was doing more than just scumhunting and noticing your scumtells.
Post by: Neruz on November 11, 2009, 06:58:00 pm
As for Neruz, I'm unfamliar in Refuge in Audacity and how often scum actually try to use it. That he's going after Toonyman for thinking him scummy while...acting scummy just sounds about as broken as you can get. Unless he can show how Toonyman wasn't just jumping on the scummiest person (you know, like we SHOULD be doing) then I'll be willing to see if RiA can catch scum as well as 3rd vote can.
Basicaly, show me how Toony was doing more than just scumhunting and noticing your scumtells.
That's the whole point, he wasn't scumhunting. Go back and read Toony's posts, find me a single instance of him providing any logical reasoning or actual scumhunting, all he did was vote for me, and then declare i was scummy and therefore scum. No reasoning, no explainations, i'm scum because he says so.
That is what i was looking for. Not votes on me, votes on me that are not explained. And that is exactly what Toony did, he saw the opening to lynch a townie, and he took it, expecting everyone else to lynch me for my ovbious scummyness he didn't bother to try and provide any reasoning or logical backup, unfortunately that backfired on him, as it was exactly what i was looking for.
Post by: Rashilul on November 11, 2009, 07:13:04 pm
Post by: Neruz on November 11, 2009, 07:16:34 pm
This is in such stark and ovbious contrast to his actions here that i'm certain something strange is going on, and are confident in lynching his ass (and the rest of him), since there's pretty damn good odds he's not pro-town with that attitude.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 11, 2009, 07:24:51 pm
CONFIRM YOUR SCUMITUDE.
Post by: Neruz on November 11, 2009, 07:31:17 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 11, 2009, 07:36:28 pm
-large snip-Alright then, I didn't see any votes on me last vote count.
You have more votes than me, why is this?
Post by: ToonyMan on November 11, 2009, 07:37:45 pm
Pandarsenic! Vote count!
Post by: Neruz on November 11, 2009, 07:38:37 pm
And yeah, we could use a vote count.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 11, 2009, 07:39:45 pm
You have more votes than me, why is this?
Post by: Neruz on November 11, 2009, 07:40:31 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 11, 2009, 07:50:15 pm
...Meph, could you clarify: was the pressure allegedly promised intended to be on Shad0w?
Okay, I probably can't really do anything until tomorrow.RL or game? <,<
...Toony, please explain to me the difference between "Vote Me" and "Lynch Me".
Post by: ToonyMan on November 11, 2009, 08:15:24 pm
Vote Me is when someone wants votes. I have no clue why someone would want this, unless they want to be lynched and yes, that becomes a Lynch Me.
Neruz says he can steal votes, then says he CAN'T. ???
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 11, 2009, 08:20:08 pm
Reconcile.
Lynch Me is when someone wants to be lynched. Usually a jester or someone acting jesterer to avoid being lynched.
Vote Me is when someone wants votes. I have no clue why someone would want this, unless they want to be lynched and yes, that becomes a Lynch Me.
Neruz says he can steal votes, then says he CAN'T. ???
VOTE ME NERUZ THEN.
CONFIRM YOUR SCUMITUDE.
Post by: dakarian on November 11, 2009, 09:04:07 pm
Toony sounds like Toony though. I don't get a bad read from him so I can't join you on his death.
Sidenote: something to dredge up from the archives:
Uh... you don't suppose Leafsnail targeted webadict, do you?
Probably not.
Due to lack of mafia kill we can assume he used his power to replace someone. So we're down one scum, + one scum.
Now, I do question why Leaf decided to use his ability last night. There wasn't exactly a lot of suspicion on him and it kills him. The only reason he would sacrifice himself would be to gain a better scum player, right?
It seems likely he targeted one of the 'best' players. Webadict would be too obvious so he probably went for someone like:
Dakarian
CobaltKobold
ToonyMan(!?)
and some others who I can't quite recall now.
Anyways, webadict. Defying the mod probably isn't in Town's interests.
Just watch out for anyone who unvotes him...
Gives me a bad "oh, I know just what's going on" vibe. Nihilist. Welcome to the fun.
Btw, I did scan of you btw. First, my Wide Scan in D1 noted that you didn't post at all to start with. Eventually, you threw a wide scan of your own and voted Neruz based on it. You didn't post anything afterwards.
Day 2, you speak about Leafsnail's effect, feeling that it's not much of a big deal.
Next post is another anyl about Leafsnail's interactions.. though the first line-"Anyways, I'm not sure if anyone bothered to analyze the people Leafsnail interacted with"-sounds odd since it comes right after my Vig of ExKirby which was based on the exact reason.
In any case, the post bypasses Rash and myself (which is odd since leaf put me on the list but had almost nothing bad to say about me) to go after Meph who "was suspicious the entire game" (though the wide scan didn't demonstrate that).
Nothing else after that at all.
Nihilist, what's the deal with your constant silence? You seem to have some idea on who to attack (since you keep on Neruz and you say that Meph always looked bad) so why aren't you attacking?
Unless you are just overwhelmed by the posts, but then, how in the world is Neruz and Meph scummy to you if you aren't sure what's going on at all?
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 11, 2009, 09:43:49 pm
RiAHuh? Expand acronym so I know what you're saying..
As (s)he's not in this game, my guess is "posting to watch thread"..e
The heck???
Post by: SirBayer on November 11, 2009, 10:14:29 pm
SirBayer. I'm 90% certain you are the role that started this whole, "Kill Webadict Now Rule".
Where does this come from?And you're being scummy.
No lynch? Why are you so sure about not killing Wbeadict?
Also, he's just parroting me. As usual. If you want my reasoning, you can look a couple pages back.
Actually, SirBayer. Why are you copying my statements?
If I am (which I have no intention to) then I have to assume it's because nobody's listening to you. I'm assuming that's because you didn't use big letters. Yes.
The one thing about worrying about advanced players having become scum is that it forces us to suspect our best players... which could be a scum-maneuver to kill our trust. Or at least redirect attention to people dangerous to them. So this effectively becomes WIFOM. Great.
Post by: Neruz on November 11, 2009, 10:17:18 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 11, 2009, 10:42:52 pm
CONTRADICTION
Reconcile.Lynch Me is when someone wants to be lynched. Usually a jester or someone acting jesterer to avoid being lynched.
Vote Me is when someone wants votes. I have no clue why someone would want this, unless they want to be lynched and yes, that becomes a Lynch Me.
Neruz says he can steal votes, then says he CAN'T. ???VOTE ME NERUZ THEN.
CONFIRM YOUR SCUMITUDE.
Am I suppose to be surprised about doing something like that?
Also, laugh at the fact Neruz does nothing to stop votes piling on him.
Post by: dakarian on November 11, 2009, 10:45:21 pm
I'm not calling for Toony's death yet. He's just being a bit reasonless and contradictory. Apparently, more as I poke him.RiAHuh? Expand acronym so I know what you're saying..
Refuge in Audacity
Post by: Neruz on November 11, 2009, 10:46:49 pm
CONTRADICTION
Reconcile.Lynch Me is when someone wants to be lynched. Usually a jester or someone acting jesterer to avoid being lynched.
Vote Me is when someone wants votes. I have no clue why someone would want this, unless they want to be lynched and yes, that becomes a Lynch Me.
Neruz says he can steal votes, then says he CAN'T. ???VOTE ME NERUZ THEN.
CONFIRM YOUR SCUMITUDE.
Am I suppose to be surprised about doing something like that?
Also, laugh at the fact Neruz does nothing to stop votes piling on him.
Piling? I think i have like, what, 3 on me at the moment?
Why do you keep trying to make it seem like there's a massive bandwagon on me and i'm about to get lynched Toony?
Post by: ToonyMan on November 11, 2009, 10:49:36 pm
You are close to being lynched, fact.
You do nothing to help stop this, fact.
You are scum, fact.
Post by: Neruz on November 11, 2009, 11:02:47 pm
So i do, in fact, have 3 votes on me. Not even close to being lynched.
Finally, last time i checked, the people who scramble desperately to avoid being lynched are the scum, not the town.
Really Toony? Faulty logic and outright blatant lies? From you?
Post by: ToonyMan on November 11, 2009, 11:03:45 pm
>_>
Post by: dakarian on November 11, 2009, 11:04:13 pm
Neruz[4]: ToonyMan, Cheeetar, Mephansteras
Dakarian[1]: SirBayer
Mephansteras[1]: Apostolic Nihilist
ToonyMan[1]: Neruz
Webadict[1]: CobaltKobold
Org[1]: webadict
Rashilul[1]: Eduren
Apostolic Nihilist[1]:Dakarian
Not Voting: Rashilul, SHAD0WDump, Vector, Mr.Person, Org, RedWarrior0
Note that the KWN rule has caused a few to hold back from voting.
Post by: Neruz on November 11, 2009, 11:08:07 pm
You're saying that Town should just get lynched.
>_>
No, i'm saying that Town usually do not need to scramble desperately to defend themselves. Town do not need to do so, because truth is their defense. Scum, however, need to scramble, because they need to use lies to defend themselves, and it's very difficult to lie without revealing a weakness.
dakarian, i see a flaw in your count, i appear to have 4 votes on me, but only 3 people voting, unless somone is a double voter?
Post by: dakarian on November 11, 2009, 11:09:39 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 11, 2009, 11:13:43 pm
I wonder if Neruz will do anything besides saying he isn't scum.
Post by: Neruz on November 11, 2009, 11:25:05 pm
I knew Toony's posts sounded familiar; he's acting exactly like MrPerson did in the 2nd Wizard Duel; his posts are erratic and illogical, he's focusing all his attention and me and seems unconcerned that i am focusing on him, and when i point out the flaws in his logic he simply ignores my posts entirely and continues to declare that i must be scum because he says so.
To metagame a little, i suspect Toony is indeed scum, and is deliberately trying to draw attention to himself and away from his buddies. I can't think of any other logical reason why he would act like this.
Post by: SirBayer on November 11, 2009, 11:31:37 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 11, 2009, 11:43:43 pm
Meanwhile, this whole stunt started because a bandwagon had started on you which turned into a direct attack on Toony.
I mean jeesh, you're using someone ELSE'S meta tells to read Toonyman, who we can't even use NORMAL tells on?
I correct myself again.. you NOW have 4 votes, Neurz
, now that I can consider your insanity earlier as a null tell and use the desperate hunt for ANYTHING to throw at Toonyman as an act of desperation.
Post by: Neruz on November 11, 2009, 11:52:01 pm
Neruz... you just described Toony as aggressive and single minded. That's actually his old Town tell at work. Even ignoring meta, aggressive and aiming to lynch scum is exactly how a town SHOULD act in the first place.
Meanwhile, this whole stunt started because a bandwagon had started on you which turned into a direct attack on Toony.
I mean jeesh, you're using someone ELSE'S meta tells to read Toonyman, who we can't even use NORMAL tells on?
I correct myself again.. you NOW have 4 votes, Neurz
, now that I can consider your insanity earlier as a null tell and use the desperate hunt for ANYTHING to throw at Toonyman as an act of desperation.
I'm not using his aggressiveness towards me as a reason to vote for him, i am using his aggressiveness towards me without explaining or providing any solid reasoning, nor choosing to counteract any of my claims (instead ignoring them entirely), as a reason to vote for him.
I've seen similar action in the XylBot mafia games; a mafioso latches onto a townie and goes on the offensive, ignoring the townie's counter-claims and providing no actual reasons for his assault apart from declaring that the townie is ovbiously scum. It happens time and time again, and oddly enough it always seems to catch at least one or two people by surprise, and then the person is lynched, turns out to be town and they sit around going "Wow, i was so sure he was scum too.", not realising that the person leading the charge never provided anything to work with; instead he let others build his arguments for him.
Remember: Mafia know that aggressively persuing someone is a town-tell. Look out for the aggressive ones who fail to explain the reason for their aggression; because they don't have one.
Exactly what you and cheeetar are doing now, in fact; Toony has provided no arguments of his own, but that's fine, you're filling in the gaps for him.
I'm not desperately hunting for anything to throw at Toony, i have what i want to throw at Toony, i've explained why i am throwing this at Toony, and as usual he has ignored my posts entirely and just declared that i am scum.
If you really want to lynch me, go ahead and lynch me, but make sure you take down Toony when i flip town, because he's using the old magicians trick of providing just enough details to the lie that you automatically fill in the blanks, so that when it invariably turns pear shaped he can, with absolute honesty, say that he didn't provide all those reasons for why Neruz was scum.
You did.
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 11, 2009, 11:53:14 pm
I want either Mephansteras or Neruz lynched. People were suspicious of Meph D1, and that subsided come D2. I don't know why, maybe because he stopped acting scummy?
Neruz' recent posts just implicate him more, in my mind. I don't even know how to attack him. Neruz is more experienced than to pull some sort of ridiculous gambit as town to find scum (I'm acting scummy so that I'll know the first person who jumps on me is scum!). That's the sort of thing novices do.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Neruz was a jester at this point. Whenever I see obvscum I always think that.
Mephansteras' scumminess is a bit more difficult to locate (aside from the mountain of people saying that 'asking questions' is his scumtell -- something which seems to have a sizable amount of evidence to support it). A good deal of my suspicion toward Mephansteras is due to Leafsnail's post, too.
I didn't find his buddying with you suspicious because... well, it seemed like buddying. Scum have no reason to buddy with other scum.
His attack on Meph was light, more so than his attack on Rashilul. Rashilul could very well be scum, for all I know. Of the people Leafsnail mentioned in his 'suspicions', I know at least 1 are scum; probably 2. I know because if I were scum, that's how I'd lay out my suspicions. If I had a list which omitted all my scumbuddies, I'd think that was suspicious in itself and include more of them.
Similarly, I wouldn't create a list with just scumbuddies, as that would seem too obvious. I'd mix in a few.
Also, SirBayer's latest post reeks of scumminess. I can't quite tell why, it just doesn't seem... right?
Just a feeling, so I'm going to ignore it. I just don't like it when people suggest that others "don't have any way out".
Post by: Mr.Person on November 11, 2009, 11:54:41 pm
Post by: Neruz on November 11, 2009, 11:55:01 pm
Neruz' recent posts just implicate him more, in my mind. I don't even know how to attack him. Neruz is more experienced than to pull some sort of ridiculous gambit as town to find scum (I'm acting scummy so that I'll know the first person who jumps on me is scum!). That's the sort of thing novices do.
You clearly havn't been playing with me enough. I usually pull this trick every other game, although admittedly i usually don't keep it running as long as i did this time.
Did you forget my "Neruz is clearly lurking far too much to be scum" ploys?
Post by: Neruz on November 11, 2009, 11:56:52 pm
My bad.
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 12, 2009, 12:01:17 am
See: BM3.
tehstefan pulled something like this which was one of the main reasons I kept my vote on him instead of webadict.
Town lost that game, interestingly enough.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 12, 2009, 12:03:42 am
*Snaps Fingers*What am I, chopped liver? He is clearly doing this to my arguments as well...
I knew Toony's posts sounded familiar; (snip)and when i point out the flaws in his logic he simply ignores my posts entirely and continues to declare that i must be scum because he says so.
I don't think Neruz really can do anything at this point do defend himself but to rolereveal on death. It's a shame, but we'll find out. If he's town, that certainly changes things.You wonder why it's scummy? It looks to me like "Neruz is scum. Let him die without another word."
Post by: Mephansteras on November 12, 2009, 12:23:42 am
Post by: Neruz on November 12, 2009, 12:28:41 am
Sorry Cobalt, i've tunnelvisioned a bit on Toony, if he's been disregarding your posts as well that only enhances my point.
Post by: dakarian on November 12, 2009, 12:51:49 am
Do you know just how much WIFOM you are throwing at the town?
"Neruz is acting horibbly scummy, but that's just him acting scummy to catch scum."
"Neruz typically does crazy things like this but that's what he wants us to think."
Perhaps fighting Meta vs meta isn't the right path, neruz, if you want to convince me of anything. I don't know your meta, but I've seen Toony's Meta, and this is how he typically acts.
Besides, do you really think I'm listening to him in order to go after you? Even if I had the means of 100% confirming Toony it doesn't mean his argument is proof of your scumminess. I'm voting for you based on MY viewing of YOUR posts. You look horrible to me, simply put.
Btw, 'I've tunnelvisioned a bit on Toony'. Couldn't you be tunnelvisioning A LOT on Toony?
@Mr.Person
Where's the post with your vote? I missed it.
Post by: Neruz on November 12, 2009, 01:03:00 am
You claim Toony always acts like this; i claim bullshit. In the other Mafia threads i've read Toony is indeed chaotic and random, but most of his posts contain some substance, there's something there.
At the moment, there is nothing there, at all. His posts amount to "You are scum, now die." There is no substance to his claims, no reasoning, nothing at all. He's just declaring that i am scum.
Quote
Besides, do you really think I'm listening to him in order to go after you? Even if I had the means of 100% confirming Toony it doesn't mean his argument is proof of your scumminess. I'm voting for you based on MY viewing of YOUR posts. You look horrible to me, simply put.
I don't actually recall making any such comment, interesting for you to suddenly bring that out into the open with no provokation however.
If you're talking about my rant where i went on about what i think Toony is trying to pull, then i wasn't actually speaking to you specifically, i was speaking to everyone in general. Additionally, the fact that YOU voted for me based on YOUR own reasons is the entire goddamn point. So long as Toony doesn't actually make any solid claim against me, when i flip town you have no ammo against him.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 12, 2009, 01:03:53 am
Dakarian:
I want either Mephansteras or Neruz lynched. People were suspicious of Meph D1, and that subsided come D2. I don't know why, maybe because he stopped acting scummy?
I'm not Dakarian, but I'll answer this. It's because Meph simply stopped posting. People got scared that they were on a scum directed bandwagon, and unvoted.
Post by: Neruz on November 12, 2009, 01:07:43 am
(For reference, trying to Meta-game me is a bad idea. I'm specifically using some of my previous scum tells this game when I'm town to help me remove them. I'm actively working to improve myself as a player. In any case asking questions is a perfectly valid tactic and I don't want to have everyone go "he's scum" everyone time I ask someone a question)
That's some pretty solid WIFOM there, "It's alright guys, i'm about to look really scummy intentionally, all those scum tells? I meant to put those there. It's all part of my plan."
Admittedly, i did exactly the same thing, and i would probably lynch myself for what i did if i didn't know myself as well as i do. I would also like to draw your attention to the fact that i've dropped the scummy act, Meph, however, appears to have every intention of keeping it up indefinitely.
This is what we call a "Get Out of Jail Free Card". Watch out for those.
Post by: dakarian on November 12, 2009, 01:24:57 am
Which is why I'm seriously not liking what's going on. When people start purposely acting scummy..well.. Shadar Logoth comes to mind.
Spoiler: Shadar WHAT?! (click to show/hide)
Fakeedit @Neruz
"Meph is trying to look scummy intentionally and is claiming that he's doing it just because and he's really town. Now that is horribly scummy, a flood of WIFOM and lynchable. Oh yah, did the same thing and I should be lynched but I know myself better than that so that's ok. Besides, I stopped so it's all cool"
.....
I think I'm done.
If you're scum, you've just damned yourself. If you're town, you've killed the spirit of this town and turned it into Shadar Logoth.
But I'm done. Go ahead and find whatever dirt you can pull on who you believe is scummy. If your scum you'll bring a nice beacon towards your scummates, even as you try to avoid it. As town..perhaps we'll find a way to salvage this thing tomorrow.
For today though, I believe it's time for this day to end.
Post by: Eduren on November 12, 2009, 01:30:50 am
If you really want to lynch me, go ahead and lynch me, but make sure you take down Toony when i flip town, because he's using the old magicians trick of providing just enough details to the lie that you automatically fill in the blanks, so that when it invariably turns pear shaped he can, with absolute honesty, say that he didn't provide all those reasons for why Neruz was scum.As town, this is a dangerous attitude. Saying "It'll be him or me!" is very likely to end in 2 mislynches. And honestly, Toony isn't acting terribly scummy. Ignoring meta, he is being aggressive, and going for a particularly hard lynch.
Post by: Neruz on November 12, 2009, 01:39:57 am
Neruz carrying an insanely large "SCUMMY" sign doesn't help.
I thought i threw the sign away awhile ago, it's not my fault you keep giving it back to me.
"Meph is trying to look scummy intentionally and is claiming that he's doing it just because and he's really town. Now that is horribly scummy, a flood of WIFOM and lynchable. Oh yah, did the same thing and I should be lynched but I know myself better than that so that's ok. Besides, I stopped so it's all cool"
That's not what i said; please go back and re-read my post. I said that Meph was giving himself a get-out-of-jail free card for any future scumminess he happens to give away, and that is what you should watch for; don't let him use that declaration that he is deliberately looking scummy to let him get away with being scummy later in the game, as he most probably will.
I fully expect to get lynched for my actions; indeed i expected to get lynched for my actions the moment i initiated that particular gambit, but i hoped to draw at least one, and hopefully a couple of scum out from hiding. unfortunately i didn't see 3 - 4 people instantly voting for me with no real reasons as i had hoped, but i did draw Toony's attention, and i think Meph just accidentally slipped up himself, that's good enough for me.
I must say, i do find it somewhat amusing that you're all willing to forgive Toony for launching attacks on people with no basis or reasoning; kudos to him for building a very airtight scum metagame.
Quote
As town, this is a dangerous attitude. Saying "It'll be him or me!" is very likely to end in 2 mislynches. And honestly, Toony isn't acting terribly scummy. Ignoring meta, he is being aggressive, and going for a particularly hard lynch.
Toony is going for a hard lynch? How in the name of all that is holy am i a hard lynch?
Post by: Eduren on November 12, 2009, 01:52:25 am
unfortunately that backfired on himit has become alot harder for him to get away with your lynch.
Post by: Neruz on November 12, 2009, 01:53:47 am
Post by: Vector on November 12, 2009, 01:57:56 am
I must say, i do find it somewhat amusing that you're all willing to forgive Toony for launching attacks on people with no basis or reasoning; kudos to him for building a very airtight scum metagame.
I think this is mostly because his scum game is incredibly obvious (except possibly to Webadict, to whom it all looks the same). What we're saying is that we know his town tells, and that we (at least I) know what he looks like as scum.
His scum metagame is far from airtight. It just isn't what you think it is. We don't know you, so we seem to be lynching you over him. If it helps, I hear he got insta-quicklynched in pretty much all of his early games due to his odd behavior. He was always town.
Post by: Neruz on November 12, 2009, 02:05:47 am
At the moment, he is chaotic, somewhat random, focusing on one target at a time and is posting complete nonsense. It doesn't match up with his other recent games.
I don't think you're giving Toony enough credit; he's not stupid, if you know his scumtells, he knows them as well. If he's managed to build himself a metagame whereby nonsensical arguments are acceptable, then i have to take my hat off to him; that is every scum's dream.
Post by: dakarian on November 12, 2009, 02:15:26 am
When everyone is unsure about one person but rather sure to very sure about another, you go after the Very Sure first and deal with the confusing aspects later.
Neruz, you are a flood of WIFOM, and I'm just sick of getting drunk off of you. You like to bring in meta? I'll bring a little of mine. You're starting to sound like Dakarian from Beginner's Mafia 1.
I had a person I was sure was scum. I charged head on against them, no matter how others viewed me. Eventually, I demanded a gambit: that if I am lynched and flip town that my target would be killed after me.
I was town then. My target was the town Doctor. What's more, my gambit became key to the mafia turning a heavy loss into a complete win, since I stopped the town from scumhunting them down and wore out the town into a shell of itself when lylo occured.
I now know the other side of that coin as the one listening to such a gambit. I've all but admitted that if you flip town, it'll be the end of all of us. That means I all but admitted that my vote on you is more out of wariness than anything else. No, I won't turn to lynch Toonyman, since your gambit means it'll be the same thing for him.
Instead, I'll take note the person many agree is scum. That's the good side of this not being lylo: I DON'T need to drink your wine and take your gambit. I can, instead, aim for a better target and wait until I can get a true, and proper read out of the both of you.
@Everyone
I highly, HIGHLY suggest that we leave Neruz and Toonyman alone today. We need to wait until they stop trying to force us into a gambit before we know what to do with them.
Instead, I ask you, when you stop lookingn at Neruz, Toonyman, and the WIFOM insanity that is the KWN situation, what makes Meph anything but scummy, based on what we know of him so far?
Post by: Neruz on November 12, 2009, 02:19:11 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 12, 2009, 02:24:01 am
Toony HAS changed, or seemed to have changed, but is looking like he used to- except not backing up
For today though, I believe it's time for this day to end.hammers, Litia. The town must agree on what must be done. Apparently nobody else feels like lynching Webby today either, and he doesn't seem to be paying any attention to me.
Isn't it suspicious that both days, something has come down and saved Webadict from a lynching that day? First day it's a pardon, now it's a "KWN rule"...what will it be tomorrow?
PPE: Dakarian: 1. You forgot to unvote, I think. 2. I don't put much stock in 3/4th votes in a game this size, but it was Meph and you on Neruz.
Also, that's a lovely(sarcasm) trap you've built, asking people to defend Mephansteras as "anything but scummy" and putting the burden of proof on innocence...with the fork of Defending Another Player as scummy to poison us.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 12, 2009, 02:29:11 am
Rashilul [2]: Eduren, Webadict
Mephansteras [1]: Apostolic Nihilist
Eduren [1]: Mr.Person
Dakarian [1]: SirBayer
Neruz [2]: ToonyMan, Cheeetar,
Org [1]: Webadict
ToonyMan [2]: Neruz, Mephansteras
Apostolic Nihilist [1]: Dakarian
Dakarian is still voting Apostolic Nihilist due to improper unvoting. I'm serious about this rule, guys.
Correct any errors just by unvoting your current target and voting whom you'd like to lynch.
Post by: Neruz on November 12, 2009, 02:30:00 am
Post by: Eduren on November 12, 2009, 02:36:50 am
Webadict [ಠ_ಠ] CobaltKobooldLook of disapproval. Nice touch.
Rashilul []: Eduren, Webadict
Mephansteras [1]: Apostolic Nihilist
Eduren [1]: Mr.Person
Dakarian [1]: SirBayer
Neruz [2]: ToonyMan, Cheeetar,
Org [1]: Webadict
ToonyMan [2]: Neruz, Mephansteras
Apostolic Nihilist [1]: Dakarian
Dakarian is still voting Apostolic Nihilist due to improper unvoting. I'm serious about this rule, guys.
Correct any errors just by unvoting your current target and voting whom you'd like to lynch.
Post by: dakarian on November 12, 2009, 03:04:58 am
It's funny, I was just considering the other day how one's strategy would differ depending on whether one was trying to win each game (playing the games) or trying to win all games (playing metagame). Web seems to be the one most obviously doing the latter, Meph appears claiming to do this- be apparently town/questioning (his scum meta? how'd that happen?) so that his later games he can (appear to) scumhunt and look town. (Remember, this is a subgoal for any nonjester.)
That's actually not a good thing overall. It means you are willing to hurt your present game in order to look better in future games. It runs counter to 'Try to Win' which is a basis that keeps this game going.
Besides, Meph would be going at it the wrong way since always looking scummy just causes people to lynch you faster around here. The proper way to look better is to, as scum and town, use your town tells. At first, it causes players to always view you as clean. Once they realize you use your tells both ways, they deem those tells as null.
The best effectively play the same no matter what they are. Web is actually at that point, as far as many are concerned. It makes him both powerful in town and dangerous as scum.
(though don't DARE make him Confirmed..ever)
Quote
Toony HAS changed, or seemed to have changed, but is looking like he used to- except not backing upFor today though, I believe it's time for this day to end.hammers, Litia. The town must agree on what must be done. Apparently nobody else feels like lynching Webby today either, and he doesn't seem to be paying any attention to me.
Isn't it suspicious that both days, something has come down and saved Webadict from a lynching that day? First day it's a pardon, now it's a "KWN rule"...what will it be tomorrow?
We'll see
Quote
PPE: Dakarian: 1. You forgot to unvote, I think. 2. I don't put much stock in 3/4th votes in a game this size, but it was Meph and you on Neruz.
Good catch, though if you don't care for it, why bring it up?
Quote
Also, that's a lovely(sarcasm) trap you've built, asking people to defend Mephansteras as "anything but scummy" and putting the burden of proof on innocence...with the fork of Defending Another Player as scummy to poison us.
1. The argument against Mephansteras has been made a few times with no one to defend him. Mostly, we've been just letting him go to hunt after someone else. I have a post with his scan earlier that left me with a 'meh' which, in other words, means "looks very bad". A new aspect is spotted later on by Neruz, though he presented part of the issue. It's not just that Meph is trying to explain away his scumtells. It's that he waited to defend scumtells that showed up early D1 until late into D2 using an argument that someone else is already making (Neruz).
2. Arguing against a lynch isn't scummy in itself. Mr.Person(town) did that towards me (town) to protect Alexhans (town) in Bay 12 mafia. Others have done the same with varying effects. Indeed, many of our scumtells involve scum who are too willing to follow townies, buddy with them, agree with them, and bandwagon with them.
My trap is more of the reverse: I tear hard at people who quickly agree with me. That's a major reason why I went after Zai (though that ended up being what he wanted).
Btw, does that mean that you find me scummy because I defended Toonyman against Neruz's attack?
Post by: Neruz on November 12, 2009, 03:24:46 am
Good catch, though if you don't care for it, why bring it up?
Not my post; but i'm going to answer this one anyway. There are degrees of suspicion, everything is not black and white. I don't put a huge amount of stock in 3/4th votes either, since most scum know about the 3/4 vote tell and thus avoid them, but that doesn't mean that they are dismissed completely. Just that they shouldn't be the foundation or lynchpin around an argument.
This seems to be a consistant problem with you guys; something is either incredibly scummy and thus lynchworthy, or it's not, in which case it should be ignored entirely. Has nobody ever heard of 'building your case'?
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 12, 2009, 03:31:25 am
I think defending Toonyman from Neruz's attack does tarnish your reputation...as, while Neruz is being scummy, he has been making arguments in the same vein as I- that Toony is apparently not being very forthcoming on his reasoning. (Like webadict, which is highly unusual for webadict).
...is ad hominem SUPPOSED to work in mafia? 'cause I'm trying to avoid it.
Post by: Vector on November 12, 2009, 03:34:25 am
This seems to be a consistant problem with you guys; something is either incredibly scummy and thus lynchworthy, or it's not, in which case it should be ignored entirely. Has nobody ever heard of 'building your case'?
A lot of us play kind of oddly, in my experience. We make allowances for that, because we've learned the hard way that lynching everyone who looks scummyscumscum is going to lose the game for the town.
Therefore, new players tend to get put through a grinder until we figure out their eccentricities. After that, we ignore some of their proclivities and tend to go for things we know are scummy for just about everyone (blatant contradictions/backpedaling/etc. typically earn you an instalynch) or build cases (sometimes strikes scum, sometimes not. Frequently backfires.). It doesn't seem like an all-or-nothing response from over here.
Post by: Neruz on November 12, 2009, 03:36:24 am
However, as Mafia is about people interacting with people, launching attacks upon them based upon their actions rather than addressing the actions directly is possible, but very risky and rarely creates a solid argument; it's best used to reinforce your current point rather than as a base for creating a new one.
Quote
Therefore, new players tend to get put through a grinder until we figure out their eccentricities. After that, we ignore some of their proclivities and tend to go for things we know are scummy for just about everyone (blatant contradictions/backpedaling/etc. typically earn you an instalynch) or build cases (sometimes strikes scum, sometimes not. Frequently backfires.). It doesn't seem like an all-or-nothing response from over here.
It's the (what seems to me, i could be wrong) blatant disregard for the fact that Toony has contributed absolutely nothing to the thread and that his posts have no content at all that is getting to me.
Sure that might be how he normally plays (doesn't appear to be), in which case it's just plain unaccetapble, as that is quite literally the absolute perfect scum defense.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 12, 2009, 03:37:40 am
Post by: Neruz on November 12, 2009, 03:38:33 am
A reminder of what I said before: When someone that is dead has had his PM exposed (like with Envy's PM), the town is free to ask questions about said PM. They will get any information about the PM that the original player could (other than the REDACTED info). THIS IS A USEFUL THING. DON'T IGNORE IT.
Fine; lets clear this up once and for all.
Does Leafsnail using his 'replace' power cause his role PM to be revealed, thus telling the entire thread what he did when he does it?
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 12, 2009, 03:41:50 am
After that, we ignore some of their proclivities and tend to go for things we know are scummy for just about everyone (blatant contradictions/backpedaling/etc. typically earn you an instalynch)Um. Blatant contradictions do not seem to be earning any lynches...
Okay, it's pretty clear now that my vote on Webadict's doing nothing for the town, as he's basically got a mod pardon on him today. Tomorrow...is another day.
Unvote Webadict
Cheeetar, why is NOBODY going after your reasonless townhammer here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg855555#msg855555) day 1?
PPE: Guys, I meant ad hominem in a specific form, actually "Hey, this guy is doing some scummy stuff over here. Ergo, he is scum, ergo this other argument should be ignored".
Post by: Neruz on November 12, 2009, 03:42:57 am
A reminder of what I said before: When someone that is dead has had his PM exposed (like with Envy's PM), the town is free to ask questions about said PM. They will get any information about the PM that the original player could (other than the REDACTED info). THIS IS A USEFUL THING. DON'T IGNORE IT.
Oh; and another question, if Leafsnail is targeted by say 3 kill abilities in one night, and also uses his duplicate ability, would the ability succeed, or would Leafsnail die without converting someone?
Post by: Vector on November 12, 2009, 03:46:18 am
After that, we ignore some of their proclivities and tend to go for things we know are scummy for just about everyone (blatant contradictions/backpedaling/etc. typically earn you an instalynch)Um. Blatant contradictions do not seem to be earning any lynches...
I haven't seen any blatant contradictions lying around (possibly because I am half-asleep). Otherwise, I would be attacking that person like they were trying to light my clothing on fire.
I meant "In general, we lynch for being contradictory, particularly when we think the person in question has been caught in a lie."
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 12, 2009, 03:51:24 am
CONTRADICTION(bolding was added for emphasis)
Reconcile.Lynch Me is when someone wants to be lynched. Usually a jester or someone acting jesterer to avoid being lynched.
Vote Me is when someone wants votes. I have no clue why someone would want this, unless they want to be lynched and yes, that becomes a Lynch Me.
Neruz says he can steal votes, then says he CAN'T. ???VOTE ME NERUZ THEN.
CONFIRM YOUR SCUMITUDE.
I try to avoid posting when half-asleep. It'd probably lead to me quoting some other mafia games I'm watching and saying "I FOUND THE SCUM" in bold, ninety-point serifed headlines.
Post by: Vector on November 12, 2009, 04:01:50 am
Post by: dakarian on November 12, 2009, 04:17:23 am
dakarian: I point it out because it seemed odd to me.
I think defending Toonyman from Neruz's attack does tarnish your reputation...as, while Neruz is being scummy, he has been making arguments in the same vein as I- that Toony is apparently not being very forthcoming on his reasoning. (Like webadict, which is highly unusual for webadict).
...is ad hominem SUPPOSED to work in mafia? 'cause I'm trying to avoid it.
Ad hominem is extremely messy in mafia, since the majority of the uses involve "so and so is scum". Since it's not confirmed that the person is actually mafia, arguing against them based on said scumminess has no basis of fact. When it's used to argue over someone's defense then it's circular reasoning:
For example, for all that I have problems with Neruz, I cannot just ignore his arguments based on those problems. Even if I view someone as Scum, I can't just ignore his viewpoints until he flips.
As for Toony, your argument has more water than Neruz since I have a handle on what your problem is with him: he needed prodding before stating his reasons. Note that this is different from Neruz, who claims Toony never gave any reasons (which is untrue). As to why I'm not following along with it or Web's lynch is thusly: the delayed reason alone aren't enough for me to mark him guilty and it's so far all you have to attack him on.
It's like if I said "Someone put the 3rd vote down! Let's lynch him!". You'd agree that it did happen but wouldn't lynch on that since you need more. Unless I provided more, I'd have no means to convince you.
BTW: I've deemed Neruz's response about the 3/4 thing insulting and condesending.
As far as Cheeetar.. that was another "after other targets" deal. I stopped going for Cheeetar when I went after ExKirby.
You want Web but will turn him down to go after Cheeetar. I want Meph, but I had been after Cheeetar and never really felt that he looked better afterwards.
Unvote-Meph Vote Cheeetar
Meanwhile, it seems the town has a problem with Neruz, Toonyman, Webadict, and Meph. Add the people who've gone into the sidelines/lurker mode and we have a VERY busy day 3.
Btw, scum only get to walk away from a near lynch when the town is unwilling to go back to the past days and continue where they left off. So long as you're willing to go back and reread the past days, combine it with more recent work, and continue your hunt, your prey will always be caught in the end. That includes the 'unlynchables' like Toony and Web.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 12, 2009, 04:31:57 am
A reminder of what I said before: When someone that is dead has had his PM exposed (like with Envy's PM), the town is free to ask questions about said PM. They will get any information about the PM that the original player could (other than the REDACTED info). THIS IS A USEFUL THING. DON'T IGNORE IT.
Fine; lets clear this up once and for all.
Does Leafsnail using his 'replace' power cause his role PM to be revealed, thus telling the entire thread what he did when he does it?
Using REPLACE will not reveal whether or not he did, but it will cause him to roleflip normally.
Post by: Neruz on November 12, 2009, 04:40:20 am
A reminder of what I said before: When someone that is dead has had his PM exposed (like with Envy's PM), the town is free to ask questions about said PM. They will get any information about the PM that the original player could (other than the REDACTED info). THIS IS A USEFUL THING. DON'T IGNORE IT.
Fine; lets clear this up once and for all.
Does Leafsnail using his 'replace' power cause his role PM to be revealed, thus telling the entire thread what he did when he does it?
Using REPLACE will not reveal whether or not he did, but it will cause him to roleflip normally.
So basically using replace will do exactly what we saw; Leafsnail will die and his role PM will be posted (which effectively tells us what he did, since he had 2 lives and it's unlikely 2 people would have targeted him at the same time.)
How about my other question; if he's killed on the same night he replaces, does he die, or does he replace?
Oh; also, if he replaces someone, does that person also get an extra life?
Post by: Eduren on November 12, 2009, 04:42:15 am
A reminder of what I said before: When someone that is dead has had his PM exposed (like with Envy's PM), the town is free to ask questions about said PM. They will get any information about the PM that the original player could (other than the REDACTED info). THIS IS A USEFUL THING. DON'T IGNORE IT."Is there anything in the PM that I(we) should know about?"
That is a valid question from the player.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 12, 2009, 04:56:20 am
His replace target gains his extra life, UNLESS Leafsnail had been struck before completing the replace.
Killing him twice on the same night as he replaced would do same as killing him once; however, killing his target would also count as a separate kill, and if Leafsnail, on the night he replaced, was killed (as was his target) that Mafia member would be eliminated.
If he replaces someone, that person gains the extra life.
Eduren, too vague. I will grant you this one, though: The one-shot protection stops anything I can think of offhand except a kill by the Lord of Chaos or a Lynch.
Post by: Neruz on November 12, 2009, 05:17:47 am
Hoo-boy.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 12, 2009, 05:26:05 am
So his revival protects him from all kills on a given night?Wrong. It protects against ANYTHING, but it only protects against it once.
Hoo-boy.
Post by: Neruz on November 12, 2009, 06:00:01 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 12, 2009, 06:23:51 am
Post by: Neruz on November 12, 2009, 06:25:31 am
We're going to have to lynch his ass then, since nking him clearly won't work.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 12, 2009, 08:10:36 am
Post by: dakarian on November 12, 2009, 09:03:27 am
Just checked and found that Org and RedWarrior0 havn't posted since yesterday. Org's last post was 26 hours ago, Red for much longer.
Aka. Mind sending prods to them?
Also, does the person who attacks and hits the Humunculus' protection know why they were blocked (as in, is it clear from the flavor that they were stopped by that stone?)
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 12, 2009, 09:40:36 am
@ModProds sent.
Just checked and found that Org and RedWarrior0 havn't posted since yesterday. Org's last post was 26 hours ago, Red for much longer.
Aka. Mind sending prods to them?
Also, does the person who attacks and hits the Humunculus' protection know why they were blocked (as in, is it clear from the flavor that they were stopped by that stone?)
Any kill protection gives appropriate flavor.
Post by: webadict on November 12, 2009, 11:08:39 am
Along with Org...
Mr.Person is probable scum.
So is...
ExKirby.
And... Rashilul or Redwarrior0.
Post by: dakarian on November 12, 2009, 11:14:56 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 12, 2009, 11:22:16 am
Post by: Mephansteras on November 12, 2009, 11:43:42 am
Webadict, ExKirby is dead.
Eh, time for me to claim. Since I seem to keep having people target me anyway, I might as well be useful.
I'm the blacksmith. While I don't get to make any neat items (sadly), I can investigate deaths to see what killed the person and what alignment the person who killed them had.
ExKirby was killed by Town. Which means that, for today at least, we can trust Dakarian. Considering that he's been directing, or attempting to direct, a lot of the town actions this a very good thing.
@The argument that I'm acting scummy for asking questions: That tactic is not scummy in and of itself, other people use it all the time without being attacked for it. It's only considered scummy for me because I used it more as scum then I did as town. So I'm trying to change that. Plus, it's really hard to defend myself from attacks that are based on me scumhunting but 'no in my usual way'. My usual way requires that I spend a few hours combing through the thread looking for details, and I just don't have time for that right now. Not in a 50-page thread that's only gone on for two game days, anyway. So I have to use other tricks to find scum. Hence me latching onto Neruz and pressuring him. He keeps throwing off scum tells so I'm going to keep voting him.
Post by: webadict on November 12, 2009, 12:25:29 pm
Meh. I believe the questions part. The part I don't believe, however, is why would you choose blacksmith, why are you being so lurky, and why have you only investigated that death?Webadict, ExKirby is dead.
Eh, time for me to claim. Since I seem to keep having people target me anyway, I might as well be useful.
I'm the blacksmith. While I don't get to make any neat items (sadly), I can investigate deaths to see what killed the person and what alignment the person who killed them had.
ExKirby was killed by Town. Which means that, for today at least, we can trust Dakarian. Considering that he's been directing, or attempting to direct, a lot of the town actions this a very good thing.
@The argument that I'm acting scummy for asking questions: That tactic is not scummy in and of itself, other people use it all the time without being attacked for it. It's only considered scummy for me because I used it more as scum then I did as town. So I'm trying to change that. Plus, it's really hard to defend myself from attacks that are based on me scumhunting but 'no in my usual way'. My usual way requires that I spend a few hours combing through the thread looking for details, and I just don't have time for that right now. Not in a 50-page thread that's only gone on for two game days, anyway. So I have to use other tricks to find scum. Hence me latching onto Neruz and pressuring him. He keeps throwing off scum tells so I'm going to keep voting him.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 12, 2009, 12:29:38 pm
I've been 'lurky' because I've been very busy lately. This game has a huge amount of activity and it's hard to keep up with, especially since my work has been a lot busier then usual and that's when I've traditionally gotten a lot of my time in.
I've only investigated ExKirby's death because it's a once-per-day use power. Leafsnail didn't seem to have been killed, so I was holding off on using my power. Which is good, since we had a day-kill today.
Post by: Rashilul on November 12, 2009, 02:15:16 pm
Post by: Rashilul on November 12, 2009, 02:27:54 pm
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 12, 2009, 02:55:52 pm
Post by: Vector on November 12, 2009, 02:58:51 pm
Post by: Rashilul on November 12, 2009, 04:09:50 pm
Post by: webadict on November 12, 2009, 04:34:48 pm
I chose blacksmith because I was thinking about blacksmithing at the time that I sent in my role to Pandar, and I wanted to see what he would come up with....
I've been 'lurky' because I've been very busy lately. This game has a huge amount of activity and it's hard to keep up with, especially since my work has been a lot busier then usual and that's when I've traditionally gotten a lot of my time in.
I've only investigated ExKirby's death because it's a once-per-day use power. Leafsnail didn't seem to have been killed, so I was holding off on using my power. Which is good, since we had a day-kill today.
All makes sense.
I can't find anyone anymore...
I still believe dakarian is scum, too, though no real feeling is holding...
Post by: Mephansteras on November 12, 2009, 04:42:10 pm
I still believe dakarian is scum, too, though no real feeling is holding...
Whoever killed ExKirby is not scum. I assume that was dakarian, since he kept threatening it and no one else has said anything to counter that claim.
Of course, that assumes that my power can't be lied to. Since this is a semi-bastard mod game...I guess I can't be 100% sure about that. Still, it's probably best to assume dak is town unless we get some proof to counter it.
Post by: webadict on November 12, 2009, 04:43:38 pm
And I'd forgotten ExKirby was dead :P
Post by: Mephansteras on November 12, 2009, 04:44:27 pm
Well... I suppose that's all in order then.
And I'd forgotten ExKirby was dead :P
Yeah, he was killed by the God of Chaos.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 12, 2009, 04:54:48 pm
I still believe dakarian is scum, too, though no real feeling is holding...
Whoever killed ExKirby is not scum. I assume that was dakarian, since he kept threatening it and no one else has said anything to counter that claim.
Of course, that assumes that my power can't be lied to. Since this is a semi-bastard mod game...I guess I can't be 100% sure about that. Still, it's probably best to assume dak is town unless we get some proof to counter it.
I won't screw the town over myself. It's sorta-bastard because the town has the potential to screw itself over.
If an investigation by anyone is uncertain to be sane, either:
1) It's because of the person they investigated and I can't say anything
2) I have warned them in advance.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 12, 2009, 05:20:34 pm
A reminder of what I said before: When someone that is dead has had his PM exposed (like with Envy's PM), the town is free to ask questions about said PM. They will get any information about the PM that the original player could (other than the REDACTED info). THIS IS A USEFUL THING. DON'T IGNORE IT.
Guys guys guys.
If Pandarsenic answers this question I found scum.
MOD: When Leafsnail used his ability, were the mafia allowed to do their standard night-kill?
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 12, 2009, 05:21:37 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 12, 2009, 05:32:59 pm
Oh man. Well, let's see the situation.
Besides Neruz. The other scum would be dakarian, Meph, and webadict.
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 12, 2009, 05:55:51 pm
D:Is it just me or does that sound like a very dangerous scum team (excluding Neruz)?
Oh man. Well, let's see the situation.
Besides Neruz. The other scum would be dakarian, Meph, and webadict.
...
I'm not so sure about webadict/Dakarian (Meph could very easily be covering for him...) but I still don't feel good about Neruz at all.
I'd rather lynch him than Mephansteras at this point, so Unvote Mephansteras and Vote Neruz.
Explanations are fine and all, but the actions themselves are still scummy. Excuses are easy to make up. Neruz has been tossing around WIFOM and he's been doing that silly thing with the ridiculous gambits that I don't like.
It messes around with my reasoning!
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 12, 2009, 05:58:20 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 12, 2009, 06:00:01 pm
Let's just go along with the ifs for a bit.
IF Neruz is town. That would make Apostolic, dakarian, and Meph scum easily.
IF Neruz is scum. That would mean nothing. I don't know who the other scum would be. This is why I am very converned about this. I'm think Neruz might just be a Diakron....
I'm going to Unvote and vote dakarian.
You keep insisting you hate buddying, but you're doing that to me!
Post by: ToonyMan on November 12, 2009, 06:01:05 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 12, 2009, 06:50:50 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 12, 2009, 06:58:52 pm
Post by: SirBayer on November 12, 2009, 07:18:15 pm
Also: Why is nobody paying attention when people tell you to stop unvoting? Sheesh.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 12, 2009, 07:19:55 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 12, 2009, 07:23:20 pm
Besides, much of the town has gone apathetic due to worrying abotu the vote.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 12, 2009, 07:47:21 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 12, 2009, 07:56:47 pm
Ugh... Too many posts to analyze. I'm considering asking for a replacement, but not sure yet.
Replacements are out.
Who the hell would read 62 pages?
Post by: Eduren on November 12, 2009, 09:06:02 pm
Post by: Rashilul on November 12, 2009, 09:33:26 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 12, 2009, 09:34:14 pm
Pandarsenic REALLY has to put in some deadlines.So we don't have 20+ page days (I'm on 50 post pages)?
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 12, 2009, 09:34:51 pm
Post by: Neruz on November 12, 2009, 09:36:33 pm
At the moment we're running closer to 30 pages per day.
Post by: Org on November 12, 2009, 09:36:59 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 12, 2009, 09:38:57 pm
5 pages per day? That would be nice.
At the moment we're running closer to 30 pages per day.
From my view, there's 19 pages. Neruz, why is that?
Post by: webadict on November 12, 2009, 09:44:10 pm
Yeah, Deadlines mayyyyy be better. Webadict, other than just me randomblocking you, why do you vote me?Because I wanted to.
How about this: DON'T BLOCK ME!
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 12, 2009, 10:33:49 pm
Urgh.
I can't change it for reasons related to certain roles.
Post by: Neruz on November 12, 2009, 10:35:33 pm
5 pages per day? That would be nice.
At the moment we're running closer to 30 pages per day.
From my view, there's 19 pages. Neruz, why is that?
This day aint over yet Redwarrior!
Also, why are you randomvoting on day 2?
Post by: Rashilul on November 12, 2009, 10:45:48 pm
Because, Org, things this long go full circle.
Post by: dakarian on November 12, 2009, 10:56:32 pm
There... I...
Urgh.
I can't change it for reasons related to certain roles.
I do not like that tone.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 12, 2009, 11:28:15 pm
There... I...
Urgh.
I can't change it for reasons related to certain roles.
I do not like that tone.
I've said too much.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 12, 2009, 11:39:44 pm
There... I...
Urgh.
I can't change it for reasons related to certain roles.
I do not like that tone.
I've said too much.
You can only say too much as scum.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 12, 2009, 11:41:33 pm
After that, we ignore some of their proclivities and tend to go for things we know are scummy for just about everyone (blatant contradictions/backpedaling/etc. typically earn you an instalynch)Um. Blatant contradictions do not seem to be earning any lynches...
Okay, it's pretty clear now that my vote on Webadict's doing nothing for the town, as he's basically got a mod pardon on him today. Tomorrow...is another day.
Unvote Webadict
Cheeetar, why is NOBODY going after your reasonless townhammer here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg855555#msg855555) day 1?
PPE: Guys, I meant ad hominem in a specific form, actually "Hey, this guy is doing some scummy stuff over here. Ergo, he is scum, ergo this other argument should be ignored".
I voted Zaithe because that day was cramped and confused. Too much was happening and it was a mess. Zai was scummy, buddying up with Webadict alot (which shows he though Web was scummy) so I ended the day with him dead.Reason. There.
And, yeah, kill Webadict now seems to be the point of this day.
[spoiler]
[spoiler=Dakarian voting for me]
As far as Cheeetar.. that was another "after other targets" deal. I stopped going for Cheeetar when I went after ExKirby.Please get some quotes of why you're voting for me. I think you made some attacks and reasons on me earlier, but I can't find them and I'm not going to check the whole 60 pages.
You want Web but will turn him down to go after Cheeetar. I want Meph, but I had been after Cheeetar and never really felt that he looked better afterwards.
Unvote-Meph Vote Cheeetar
Meanwhile, it seems the town has a problem with Neruz, Toonyman, Webadict, and Meph. Add the people who've gone into the sidelines/lurker mode and we have a VERY busy day 3.
[spoiler]
Neruz has done nothing to dispel(?) my suspicions of him, so I shall continue to vote for him. I don't buy the 'I was acting scummy to see if people voted for me. The people who voted for me are scum.' thing.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 12, 2009, 11:42:03 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 12, 2009, 11:52:28 pm
Why I'm voting for you? The hammer vote was what did it.
As for the rest of your performance...you don't have much of one. My wide scan has this:
"Cheeetar (LATE START) V Meph(2nd)-Meta:asking questions is a scumtell and didn't like original vote on Neruz"
You don't have much else to go on beyond that in either day. You just aren't here. Mind showing up more? It won't take much to make me think you're just hiding rather than lurking.
Unvote Cheeetar
(Unvote Rashilul)
Because, Org, things this long go full circle.
Welcome to the world Rash. Now.. why are you voting for Org or passive one?
Post by: Rashilul on November 13, 2009, 12:02:27 am
Dakarian has insulted my knowledge of the world. Tradition dictates lynching.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 13, 2009, 12:04:52 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 13, 2009, 12:06:00 am
There... I...
Urgh.
I can't change it for reasons related to certain roles.
I do not like that tone.
I've said too much.
You can only say too much as scum.
Or as the mod.
Post by: Rashilul on November 13, 2009, 12:09:25 am
I haven't posted as much as others, but I wouldn't go so far as to say I was lurking. Rash: Stop pretending you're in RVS.
Can we vote on somebody conclusively, then?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 13, 2009, 12:16:59 am
Post by: Vector on November 13, 2009, 12:18:34 am
Of course, I'll admit that I'm a bit wary of killing Neruz with my side order of WIFOM.
Post by: SirBayer on November 13, 2009, 12:22:10 am
As long as no one can tell me that Toony is confirmed town, I'm mildly suspicious of his lack-of-caring. I'm mildly suspicious of EVERYONE who doesn't care - we don't know that Webadict is the one. I'm almost of the opinion we should just nolynch - wait, I already said that.
Where has Shadow been this entire time?
Fake-edit: Don't think Neruz is scum - nobody would be that stupid (ignoring WIFOM - it's just too big of a risk). Don't like Rash's rash voting. LOL
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 13, 2009, 12:24:48 am
Hmm...Was it you who said that Scum-org was more active? I can't remember.
Along with Org...
Of course, that assumes that my power can't be lied to.And that you're telling the truth...I see others have already picked up on this though, now, as I read through the thread.
unvote Cheeetar : hmm...how did I miss that. Still, I prefer people say things WHEN they do things.
Neruz as good as called for his own lynch. In my experience, town doesn't do that.
Rashilul is using contentless croaks and will 'til he croaks, I'm sure. "You insult me, I vote yooou".><
19.25" of snow in one day is difficult to shovel
PPE: Sirbayer's vote flapping in the wind?
Post by: Rashilul on November 13, 2009, 12:24:59 am
Don't like Sir Bayer's puns LOL.
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 13, 2009, 12:25:54 am
Org is scum.
16. Org - Dramatic entrance on page 19: 'YO GUYS I'M MEGA AWESOME^10000 I WATCHED SOME FIREFLY IT'S PRETTY COOL NOW BYE' -> 'leaf is pretty weird guys' -> vote Neruz. 'Neruz, bandwagoning is bad.' (LOLWUT, Org, you're the fourth person to vote him)
This is from my widescan on page 28.
Here's the post:
Well, i have to side with Webadict here. It seems Leaf is acting a bit weird(or Kriby is).
Now, either we can assume:
Org genuinely took webadict's arguments to heart and sided with him,
OR
Org knew that Leaf was scum. Org wants to do two things: draw attention away from himself ("Hey guys! I said that he was acting strangely! Thus I can't be his partner) in case of a lynch, AND he also wants to not seem like he's avoiding Leafsnail completely.
I'm pretty sure this is an Org scumtell. He did it in web's BYOR, too. I'm not sure what page, but he randomly started telling me to 'start posting more'. Coincidentally, he was my scumbuddy.
I'm leaving my vote on Neruz because I want a lynch today, but Org is next on my list.
Post by: Vector on November 13, 2009, 12:34:41 am
Votecount?
Post by: Rashilul on November 13, 2009, 12:37:33 am
Neruz, I want to get to day 3.
Post by: SirBayer on November 13, 2009, 12:39:52 am
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 13, 2009, 12:41:31 am
Apost, come back to the world of the living. Please. We have cookies.Note that this is when my most noteworthy activity consists of lurking. He draws attention to his scumbuddies for no reason!
I think the thing with Leafsnail is the same.
Usually just mentioning a name would not be very suspicious.
Org, however, is a man of few words.
His posts small, their quantity limited.
We must take what little he gives us.
Leafsnail and Neruz were the only people he said were acting scummy in 30 pages.
Leafsnail was scum, and I'm willing to bet that Org is too.
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 13, 2009, 12:42:10 am
Post by: Neruz on November 13, 2009, 12:59:11 am
Rashilul has been drawing my attention recently; he's been voting and unvoting all over the place, he can't make up his mind. He votes for someone, someone says that the vote is a bit odd or wants an explanation, he immediately unvotes and votes for someone else.
That's a gigantic-ass scum tell, in fact it's almost enough to make me switch to vote off Toony onto him.
Actually, natch that, it is enough; Rashilul has changed his vote four times with no explanation for any of his changes in the past two pages. Unvote ToonyMan, Vote Rashilul. I'm willing to take your guys words that this activity is about par for a town ToonyMan (i still think he's dangerous) but Rashilul is stinking to the high heavens right now. Four sudden and unexplained vote switches before landing on the bandwagon that's starting up on me? Oh yeah, now that right there is very scummy.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 13, 2009, 02:02:53 am
Or did you miss/purposely ignore that?I haven't posted as much as others, but I wouldn't go so far as to say I was lurking. Rash: Stop pretending you're in RVS.
Can we vote on somebody conclusively, then?
Post by: Neruz on November 13, 2009, 02:06:41 am
Switching your vote all over the place is one of the most standard scumtells; outside of Random Voting it's absolutely by-the-book for scum looking for a townie they can vote for that doesn't try to challenge the vote. It's also one of the strongest scum tells i know of, and the fact that you seem so willing to disregard it makes me very curious of you too Cheeetar.
I think i might have tunneled onto Toony a bit much, now that i look around he doesn't look anything like as scummy as i thought he did.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 13, 2009, 02:08:08 am
Post by: Neruz on November 13, 2009, 02:19:37 am
...what the hell? I'm pretty sure he knows that. A scum wouldn't just up and throw votes all over the place for no reason, unless trying for Refuge in Audacity.
Ooh, more wine *sip*
You can't just disregard scum tells; a good case can be made for saying "Oh hey, nobody would be stupid enough to do that if they were scum, they must be town!" for every scum tell in the book. If you see a scum tell, you jump on it, if when you squeeze, more scum tells come out, you lynch the bastard, if when you squeeze you get town tells, you ease up a bit, but keep an eye on the person should any future scum tells come out.
Just going "I'm sure he's not stupid, he can't be stupid enough to throw out all those scum tells." smells alot like a scum trying to defend his buddy.
Let Rashilul defend himself, he's not incompetant is he? In fact by your very words you're pretty sure he's smart enough to know that what he just did is a gigantic-ass scum tell.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 13, 2009, 02:23:06 am
Let Rashilul defend himselfI think it's a good idea to step in and stop someone I think is town being voted for. But I'll let Rash put forth his arguments.
Post by: Neruz on November 13, 2009, 02:29:58 am
Let Rashilul defend himselfI think it's a good idea to step in and stop someone I think is town being voted for. But I'll let Rash put forth his arguments.
One vote is nothing; why are you so concerned about a single vote?
Post by: ExKirby on November 13, 2009, 02:39:52 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 13, 2009, 02:46:15 am
Can people just remember that I WANT A REPLACEMENT.Sir (or madam), you are already dead. You got daykilled (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg860932;topicseen#msg860932).
Post by: Neruz on November 13, 2009, 03:00:48 am
Post by: Eduren on November 13, 2009, 03:34:41 am
I'm willing to take your guys words that this activity is about par for a town ToonyMan (i still think he's dangerous)Is this a genuine retraction? Or have you just given up on trying to convince us?
Post by: Neruz on November 13, 2009, 06:00:09 am
What kind of a stupid question is that?I'm willing to take your guys words that this activity is about par for a town ToonyMan (i still think he's dangerous)Is this a genuine retraction? Or have you just given up on trying to convince us?
Seriously, allow me to ask you one in a similar vein; eduren, are you lying when you say you are not scum?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 13, 2009, 07:08:15 am
Post by: Mr.Person on November 13, 2009, 12:08:06 pm
I believe it was a rhetorical question.
No, Eduren asked a very legitimate question there.
Post by: webadict on November 13, 2009, 12:12:43 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 13, 2009, 12:34:24 pm
I can't post much during the weekend. Like about half. I have so much junk to do it's crazy.
dakarian! Stop ignoring me and answer why you hate buddying, but are doing buddying to me!
Post by: ToonyMan on November 13, 2009, 12:35:46 pm
>_>
Post by: webadict on November 13, 2009, 12:38:12 pm
dakarian, Meph, CobaltKobold, and Rashilul are scummy for me right now.I thought I was mafia too?
I can't post much during the weekend. Like about half. I have so much junk to do it's crazy.
dakarian! Stop ignoring me and answer why you hate buddying, but are doing buddying to me!
Post by: ToonyMan on November 13, 2009, 12:40:24 pm
Also, IS NERUZ DEAD? I hope not.
Post by: webadict on November 13, 2009, 12:40:41 pm
Not anymore I guess?I think so.
Also, IS NERUZ DEAD? I hope not.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 13, 2009, 12:42:05 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 13, 2009, 01:07:00 pm
Still UNOFFICIAL (but pretty accurate I believe) vote count:
Rashilul [5]: Eduren, Webadict, SirBayer, Neruz, Dakarian
Eduren [1]: Mr.Person
Dakarian [1]: ToonyMan
Neruz [5]: , Cheeetar, Apostolic Nihilist, RedWarrior0, CobaltKobold, Vector
Org [1]: Webadict
ToonyMan [1]: Mephansteras
It takes 9 to lynch at the moment.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 13, 2009, 01:08:27 pm
Anyway. Dakarian?
Post by: Mephansteras on November 13, 2009, 01:10:15 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 13, 2009, 01:11:42 pm
Neruz's arguements were either making poor use of meta (basing it on Mr.person's argument!?) or based on you using meta that traditionally marked you as town. Those aren't good reasons to lynch in my eyes.
Poor reasons to lynch are poor.
@Meph
I'll take a simliar stance to Pandar: Revote if you need it corrected :P.
Still UNOFFICIAL (but pretty accurate I believe) vote count:
Rashilul [5]: Eduren, Webadict, SirBayer, Neruz, Dakarian
Eduren [1]: Mr.Person
Dakarian [1]: ToonyMan
Neruz [6]: Cheeetar, Apostolic Nihilist, RedWarrior0, CobaltKobold, Vector, Mephansteras
Org [1]: Webadict
It takes 9 to lynch at the moment.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 13, 2009, 01:34:26 pm
Post by: Rashilul on November 13, 2009, 01:41:36 pm
I'm also voting for Neruz.
Post by: dakarian on November 13, 2009, 01:45:53 pm
Still UNOFFICIAL (but pretty accurate I believe) vote count:
Rashilul [5]: Eduren, Webadict, SirBayer, Neruz, Dakarian
Eduren [1]: Mr.Person
Dakarian [1]: ToonyMan
Neruz [7]: Cheeetar, Apostolic Nihilist, RedWarrior0, CobaltKobold, Vector, Mephansteras, Rashilul
Org [1]: Webadict
It takes 9 to lynch at the moment.
Considering how close we are to lynch, if you aren't shown here as voting for neruz, you WILL need to formally Revote.
Sidenote, L-2. Considering how some people ("Hi Cheeetar") get hammerhappy, it might be best to keep it there for now. Neruz, meanwhile, it's time to claim: not just who you are but also what you did last night.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 13, 2009, 02:20:13 pm
I'm going to Unvote and vote dakarian.
You keep insisting you hate buddying, but you're doing that to me!
Post by: dakarian on November 13, 2009, 02:25:01 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 13, 2009, 02:26:30 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 13, 2009, 02:38:38 pm
In any case, if you have other questions as to why I do what I do, you can ask them. You'll get the same answer if you keep asking the same question, though.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 13, 2009, 02:45:45 pm
Post by: Neruz on November 13, 2009, 03:01:07 pm
I am The Altar of the World Machine
Unfortunately, i lack a Cult of the World Machine, fortunately that doesn't slow me down much, as i can Alter things for the World Machine, allowing me to redirect a player each night.
Last night, IIRC, i redirected ToonyMan onto webadict.
Post by: dakarian on November 13, 2009, 03:08:36 pm
As for others:
I'm looking for Cheeetar to do more than hammer random people and disappear. You and Neruz are in the wait and see column, Meph and web are as well though more to let the claim and mod-created-WIFOM pass by before a better read can show.
Sidenote: Sir Bayer and RedWarrior triggered 3rd vote technically, but there's a mass of votings and unvotings so it'll take a scan to see who really dropped the third vote.
Fakeedit: @toonyman
Does Neruz's claim make sense considering you were the target?
Post by: Neruz on November 13, 2009, 03:17:05 pm
I'm pretty sure webadict was involved, i know that much.
Post by: SirBayer on November 13, 2009, 03:26:54 pm
Does this possibly mean that Org didn't roleblock Webadict? It's a stretch to say that maybe Org's didn't work and Toony's did, but if not that, then what did Toonyman's do?
(This is what really gets me excited. We all have power roles of some variety, so if we all claim, we can start fact-checking, and facts lie far less often than scumtells. I don't expect a mass-claim today, but soon, I hope.)
Dakarian: What is triggering the third vote?
Post by: Neruz on November 13, 2009, 04:26:09 pm
I think i originally intended to redirect Toony to web, but i elected not to for some reason, i think because it looked like everyone was going to jump on web anyway or something.
So yeah; did anything funny happen to you last night Toony? If so, that's my fault, cause MrPerson did it.
Post by: dakarian on November 13, 2009, 04:53:00 pm
That claim was horribly mangled.
Unless MrPerson or Toony can say something that suggests that the redirect happened, we're hammering you, simply put.
Post by: Neruz on November 13, 2009, 04:58:16 pm
Post by: Neruz on November 13, 2009, 05:00:11 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 13, 2009, 05:01:31 pm
Btw, about the 3rd vote deal:
Rashilul [5]: Eduren, Webadict, SirBayer, Neruz, Dakarian
Eduren [1]: Mr.Person
Dakarian [1]: ToonyMan
Neruz [7]: Cheeetar, Apostolic Nihilist, RedWarrior0, CobaltKobold, Vector, Mephansteras, Rashilul
That's what I refer to. 3rd vote is an old scumtell that still works.
HOWEVER, a TRUE 3rd vote tell has to take in account unvotes.
i.e. Litia, Dakarian, Pandarsenic, and MyLeftFoot all vote for Someone, Dakarian, though, unvotes. The vote count looks like this:
Someone[3]: Litia, Pandarsenic, MyLeftFoot
It shows MLF as the 3rd vote, however, Pandar really gave the 3rd vote and someone pulled out later. Thus Pandar holds the scumtell.
It's not some random pick. 3rd vote represents a scum that is active enough to vote to kill but too passive to attack before others (the 1st and 2nd) have done so. Either the scum is bandwagoning or the scum was just passive and came in late. Either way it works.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 13, 2009, 05:08:43 pm
How about you Mr.Person? Does this match up sorta? Without revealing anything of course.
Also,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: webadict on November 13, 2009, 09:25:40 pm
Post by: webadict on November 13, 2009, 09:41:25 pm
Post by: Rashilul on November 13, 2009, 09:43:54 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on November 13, 2009, 09:45:15 pm
Post by: Neruz on November 13, 2009, 10:15:12 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on November 13, 2009, 10:21:18 pm
I think what ToonyMan means is "Did you do anything last night that got a result that would make sense if it was on Toony instead of who you targeted?"
Oh. No, I don't know if my target got switched.
Post by: Neruz on November 13, 2009, 10:23:51 pm
And apparantly it's something that doesn't affect the person getting hit.
Wonderful.
Post by: dakarian on November 13, 2009, 11:13:16 pm
Vote Neruz
L-1
Post by: SirBayer on November 13, 2009, 11:15:47 pm
Post by: webadict on November 13, 2009, 11:29:32 pm
Post by: SirBayer on November 13, 2009, 11:31:14 pm
Post by: webadict on November 13, 2009, 11:36:24 pm
You're over explaining, a common scumtell for newbie scum. You're a newbie scum, hence why you are being over explanatory. It'd have been fine if you were wary: I'd even be, but you are being OVERLY CAUTIOUS.
... Yeah, I have a good feeling about this.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 13, 2009, 11:39:33 pm
Also, Post #1000!
*Foams at mouth*
Post by: Neruz on November 13, 2009, 11:40:16 pm
Also, Post #1000!
*Foams at mouth*
You're the one that started a 19 man hammer game.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 13, 2009, 11:45:51 pm
Post by: Neruz on November 13, 2009, 11:47:43 pm
Post by: SirBayer on November 13, 2009, 11:54:41 pm
Do you want me to end the day or not? You can lynch me tomorrow.
Post by: webadict on November 13, 2009, 11:58:14 pm
And overexplanation can't be a scumtell accidentally dropped by a townie who doesn't want to misdirect attention?...
Do you want me to end the day or not? You can lynch me tomorrow.
I have that feeling I get when scum is scared. I feast upon that feeling, you know. It's like a drug, and every word that I read just makes the feeling more intense.
You're scum. I will scan you tonight, unless you are lynched. I am right. I know it.
I've waited a while to get this feeling, and now that it's back, I need more...
So: Who's your scummates?!?
Post by: Neruz on November 14, 2009, 12:01:46 am
Post by: SirBayer on November 14, 2009, 12:04:34 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 14, 2009, 12:06:11 am
Eduren [1]: Mr.Person
Neruz [8]: ToonyMan, Cheeetar, CobaltKoboold, Apostolic Nihilist, RedWarrior0, Vector, Rashilul, Dakarian
Org [1]: Webadict
ToonyMan [1]: Mephansteras
Improper unvotes have not been counted.
Please inform me of any errors.
Post by: Neruz on November 14, 2009, 12:07:42 am
Also, Page 69 Get.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 14, 2009, 12:55:55 am
Post by: Cheeetar on November 14, 2009, 02:58:00 am
Post by: Mr.Person on November 14, 2009, 02:59:33 am
Is that supposed to be a 'I'll put it in red later vote but now I want your suspicions before you die' vote or just a mistake?
If I voted him, the day would be over and we couldn't hear more from him.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 14, 2009, 03:02:16 am
Post by: Mr.Person on November 14, 2009, 03:15:47 am
So, it's a 'I'll put it in red later vote but now I want your suspicions before you die'?
More of a "Any last words"?
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 14, 2009, 03:15:54 am
Post by: Cheeetar on November 14, 2009, 03:22:39 am
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 14, 2009, 03:29:47 am
-Game is HUGE
-Remember when I said that the wizard duel and web's BYOR mafia were the last mafias I'd probably join? I probably should have stuck to that word.
-"Mafia, the only forum game that feels like homework" I said that much earlier in the thread, but damned if I'm gonna go find it.
But again, I'm going to try desperately not to 'flake out' as it were. I have been watching this thread, but not very closely.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 14, 2009, 03:34:33 am
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 14, 2009, 03:44:18 am
Post by: ToonyMan on November 14, 2009, 12:30:23 pm
Rashilul [3]: Eduren, SirBayer, Neruz
Eduren [1]: Mr.Person
Neruz [8]: ToonyMan, Cheeetar, CobaltKoboold, Apostolic Nihilist, RedWarrior0, Vector, Rashilul, Dakarian
Org [1]: Webadict
ToonyMan [1]: Mephansteras
Improper unvotes have not been counted.
Please inform me of any errors.
BRO DUDE I'M NOT VOTING NERUZ I AM VOTING DAKARIAN.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 14, 2009, 12:31:26 pm
JUST FOR PROOF.
Unvote Dakarian.
VOTE DAKARIAN.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 14, 2009, 01:10:15 pm
Post by: webadict on November 14, 2009, 01:25:16 pm
Webadict: You can't scan tonight. I have an ability that will save lives - but if I miss, it roleblocks the next night. That night would be tonight. If you want to scan me, you'll have to wait until night after tonight. ._. I didn't do it on purpose. You'll be able to confirm that, I assume, especially if the flavor mentions radiation sickness.Okay, let's think about this logically:
1) How did you know I wasn't attacked last Night, unless you were in the mafia?
2) Isn't it strange that now I've been roleblocked TWO Nights in a row, through various mishaps? I mean, who'd've thought that Org would block me, and then YOU would block me? Or was that just a coincidence?
And 3) You obviously did it on purpose, because you control your action. And all I can confirm is "Woo, I got blocked!"
Post by: Org on November 14, 2009, 01:35:00 pm
Maybe if you were nicer I wouldnt. :I
Post by: ToonyMan on November 14, 2009, 01:36:21 pm
HEY WEBADICT. GONNA ROLEBLOCK YOU TONIGHT BROSKY
Maybe if you were nicer I wouldnt. :I
Why what who wait.
Post by: Org on November 14, 2009, 01:37:07 pm
HE IS NOT BEING COOL, SO I WILL BE A DOUCHE. ROLEBLOCk. WEBADICT. NOOOOOOOHEY WEBADICT. GONNA ROLEBLOCK YOU TONIGHT BROSKY
Maybe if you were nicer I wouldnt. :I
Why what who wait.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 14, 2009, 01:40:59 pm
Post by: Org on November 14, 2009, 01:42:04 pm
Even so, you generally don't ANNOUNCE WHAT YOU WILL BE DOING DURING THE NIGHT AS THAT CREATES WIFOM.BUT I WANT TO :I
IS THAT MORE PARTICIPATION WEB?
Post by: webadict on November 14, 2009, 01:55:40 pm
No. And if you're going to act like this, I'm sure more will follow.Even so, you generally don't ANNOUNCE WHAT YOU WILL BE DOING DURING THE NIGHT AS THAT CREATES WIFOM.BUT I WANT TO :I
IS THAT MORE PARTICIPATION WEB?
Post by: Org on November 14, 2009, 02:00:35 pm
But I do not think it is fair to put me out of a mafia game due to the way I play.
Post by: SirBayer on November 14, 2009, 02:06:31 pm
Webadict: You can't scan tonight. I have an ability that will save lives - but if I miss, it roleblocks the next night. That night would be tonight. If you want to scan me, you'll have to wait until night after tonight. ._. I didn't do it on purpose. You'll be able to confirm that, I assume, especially if the flavor mentions radiation sickness.Okay, let's think about this logically:
1) How did you know I wasn't attacked last Night, unless you were in the mafia?
2) Isn't it strange that now I've been roleblocked TWO Nights in a row, through various mishaps? I mean, who'd've thought that Org would block me, and then YOU would block me? Or was that just a coincidence?
And 3) You obviously did it on purpose, because you control your action. And all I can confirm is "Woo, I got blocked!"
1. I know I wasn't attacked last night because Panda told me in his PM that you were roleblocked tomorrow night from radiation sickness. He told me this specifically. You were not attacked in a way that I could defend from.
2. Yes, it's strange, but I assumed scum was going to try to knock you off. (If I attempt to protect you again tonight and you're not attacked, you'll die. So I don't think I'm going to do that.)
3. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Org: There's no point. He's accidentally roleblocked already. You should have known that...
Post by: Org on November 14, 2009, 02:08:42 pm
:-\Webadict: You can't scan tonight. I have an ability that will save lives - but if I miss, it roleblocks the next night. That night would be tonight. If you want to scan me, you'll have to wait until night after tonight. ._. I didn't do it on purpose. You'll be able to confirm that, I assume, especially if the flavor mentions radiation sickness.Okay, let's think about this logically:
1) How did you know I wasn't attacked last Night, unless you were in the mafia?
2) Isn't it strange that now I've been roleblocked TWO Nights in a row, through various mishaps? I mean, who'd've thought that Org would block me, and then YOU would block me? Or was that just a coincidence?
And 3) You obviously did it on purpose, because you control your action. And all I can confirm is "Woo, I got blocked!"
1. I know I wasn't attacked last night because Panda told me in his PM that you were roleblocked tomorrow night from radiation sickness. He told me this specifically. You were not attacked in a way that I could defend from.
2. Yes, it's strange, but I assumed scum was going to try to knock you off. (If I attempt to protect you again tonight and you're not attacked, you'll die. So I don't think I'm going to do that.)
3. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Org: There's no point. He's accidentally roleblocked already. You should have known that...
Its the thought that count
Post by: webadict on November 14, 2009, 02:50:56 pm
Fine.It's fair if I believe your gameplay is contrary to the game: You lurk, post spam, and hardly help either team you're on.
But I do not think it is fair to put me out of a mafia game due to the way I play.
Post by: SirBayer on November 14, 2009, 03:03:55 pm
I've essentially claimed, so I could finish it if you'd like me to, Web.
Post by: Org on November 14, 2009, 03:17:15 pm
SpamFine.It's fair if I believe your gameplay is contrary to the game: You lurk, post spam, and hardly help either team you're on.
But I do not think it is fair to put me out of a mafia game due to the way I play.
/spæm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [spam] Show IPA noun, verb, spammed, spam⋅ming.
Use spam in a Sentence
See web results for spam
See images of spam
1. Trademark. a canned food product consisting esp. of pork formed into a solid block.
–noun
2. (lowercase) a disruptive, esp. commercial message posted on a computer network or sent as e-mail.
–verb (used with object)
3. (lowercase) to send spam to.
–verb (used without object)
4. (lowercase) to send spam.
No. I do not post spam. like I said, I post low quality posts, although it means its harder to tell what I am, which makes it good then going on rants or making a mistake.
Post by: dakarian on November 14, 2009, 03:17:37 pm
Alright, well. I'm willing to hammer if people really, really think I should. I hesitate because just hammering people is a bad thing, and I'm still suspicious of Rash, who hasn't really defended himself beyond saying he's bored. However, if most people think Neruz is scummy enough to deserve HAMMERFACING, then I'll do it.
Correction: I know nobody tried to kill you through my protect, Webby, because the PM said so.
I've essentially claimed, so I could finish it if you'd like me to, Web.
Pacivity noted. Self Preservation noted.
It sounds like you don't believe Neruz is scum, but you're willing to hammer, but the only thing stopping you is that you might end up under suspicion.
aka. You're not trying very hard to make sure we kill scum, but you're trying VERY hard to make sure you don't die.
Nothing you do can now be blamed on others, so choose what you believe in and be saved or damned by it.
Post by: dakarian on November 14, 2009, 03:28:17 pm
SpamFine.It's fair if I believe your gameplay is contrary to the game: You lurk, post spam, and hardly help either team you're on.
But I do not think it is fair to put me out of a mafia game due to the way I play.
/spæm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [spam] Show IPA noun, verb, spammed, spam⋅ming.
Use spam in a Sentence
See web results for spam
See images of spam
1. Trademark. a canned food product consisting esp. of pork formed into a solid block.
–noun
2. (lowercase) a disruptive, esp. commercial message posted on a computer network or sent as e-mail.
–verb (used with object)
3. (lowercase) to send spam to.
–verb (used without object)
4. (lowercase) to send spam.
No. I do not post spam. like I said, I post low quality posts, although it means its harder to tell what I am, which makes it good then going on rants or making a mistake.
That actually is about as UNGOOD as you can get, barring full abandonment.
By posting low quality posts:
1. Few people can read you. We don't JUST read for scum, we also read for town. As such, we can't tell if you are scum or town.
2. You aren't trying to hunt as town. Your lack of content gets you noticed as scum. It's also VERY common for you to just dissapear and leave your fellows, town or scum, hanging. It's not lack of time, since I end up seeing you post in one game and get prodded in another. It could be too many games being played. Either way, it hurts, BADLY!
The fact that you are here more often is VERY much noted and I SWARE it's a good thing. However, there's still times when it seems like you fade in and out with the scenery. Not spamming or posting fluff is great. However, being helpful is what we'd prefer. If you're town, try to go after people, even if you end up killing townies (Jeesh, how many games have I, as town, ended up leading the town to a mislynch?). If your scum then work more with your scummates and communicate with them. It's the lack of that which frustrates people.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 14, 2009, 03:31:38 pm
Post by: webadict on November 14, 2009, 03:47:29 pm
Correction: I know nobody tried to kill you through my protect, Webby, because the PM said so.Why are you asking me? You've got Neruz's answer, didn't you? That's what we want. No one is willing to switch their votes (Which is disappointing, really), and so there isn't much point in holding out, now is there?
I've essentially claimed, so I could finish it if you'd like me to, Web.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 14, 2009, 05:24:40 pm
Neruz!
Post by: Cheeetar on November 14, 2009, 05:38:36 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 14, 2009, 05:39:05 pm
Because Toony unvoted or wasn't voting Neruz or something, Neruz can still say his last words right?
Indeed. He's at L-1.
Post by: dakarian on November 14, 2009, 05:42:43 pm
Rashilul [3]: Eduren, SirBayer, Neruz
Eduren [1]: Mr.Person
Neruz [8]: Cheeetar, CobaltKoboold, Apostolic Nihilist, RedWarrior0, Vector, Rashilul, Dakarian, SHAD0Wdump
Org [1]: Webadict
ToonyMan [1]: Mephansteras
Dakarian[
Post by: ToonyMan on November 14, 2009, 05:46:49 pm
I don't remember killing anyone! Except maybe that one guy....
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 14, 2009, 09:44:04 pm
The fact that you are here more often is VERY much noted and I SWARE it's a good thing.
Quote from: Definitions of sware on the Web:
A deep black/brown color created when mixing 3 or more darker shades of various colors; Archaic spelling of swear...okay, you're off the hook this time.
*puts on his mis-lynch crown of awe*I'm gonna ask what that's s'posed to mean, 'cause tone fails HorRIBLY over the internet.
ugh, got woken up PM, paper's due monday.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 14, 2009, 09:50:53 pm
I put my crown on to show him the truth. And THRILLER. THRILLEERRR.
Post by: Neruz on November 14, 2009, 10:51:45 pm
"Why the fuck am i still standing?"
I've already said who i think is scum; Rashilul and Dak have both drawn my attention somewhat (Rashilul especially), eduren is also worth watching.
SirBayer's insecurity also marks him as rather suspicious, eduren hasn't really done anything super scummy, he's just been a bit off, so at the moment i'd chalk up the scum team as Rashilul, Dak and SirBayer.
Seriously, this entire situation smacks so hard of scum really not wanting to hammer me for fear of drawing attention that i can almost taste it.
Also, SHAD0Wdump, you sir, you are useless.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 14, 2009, 10:55:41 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 14, 2009, 10:57:07 pm
Yeah, i'd say 7 is about time to roleclaim.
I am The Altar of the World Machine
Unfortunately, i lack a Cult of the World Machine, fortunately that doesn't slow me down much, as i can Alter things for the World Machine, allowing me to redirect a player each night.
Last night, IIRC, i redirected ToonyMan onto webadict.
Your claim doesn't have anything to do with vote stealing....
Post by: Neruz on November 14, 2009, 11:00:48 pm
Basically i was being silly.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 14, 2009, 11:13:54 pm
Post by: Neruz on November 14, 2009, 11:15:42 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 14, 2009, 11:16:21 pm
Eduren, Mr.Person, Mephansteras. Can you three restate why you believe the people you voted for are scum? I can understand not wanting to hammer if you don't believe he's scum, but if so you SHOULD be pushing extra hard for who you do believe should be lynched.
SirBayer: it seems clear you don't believe Neruz is scum. Who ARE you after then?
Lastly: Org, NO ONE looks scummy to you at this point? You aren't voting for anyone.
Post by: Org on November 14, 2009, 11:17:14 pm
Going over the vote list, there are a few people who aren't voting for Neruz. Of them, some have recently stated their reasons for their votes. A few have not yet.Im not?
Eduren, Mr.Person, Mephansteras. Can you three restate why you believe the people you voted for are scum? I can understand not wanting to hammer if you don't believe he's scum, but if so you SHOULD be pushing extra hard for who you do believe should be lynched.
SirBayer: it seems clear you don't believe Neruz is scum. Who ARE you after then?
Lastly: Org, NO ONE looks scummy to you at this point? You aren't voting for anyone.
Post by: dakarian on November 14, 2009, 11:21:43 pm
My Genuine Imitation Leather vote count
Rashilul [3]: Eduren, SirBayer, Neruz
Eduren [1]: Mr.Person
Neruz [8]: Cheeetar, CobaltKoboold, Apostolic Nihilist, RedWarrior0, Vector, Rashilul, Dakarian, SHAD0Wdump
Org [1]: Webadict
ToonyMan [1]: Mephansteras
Dakarian[Killer1]: ToonyMan,
Nope. You're the only one.
Took me a few minutes to figure it out :P.
Post by: Org on November 14, 2009, 11:28:56 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 14, 2009, 11:30:57 pm
Mind voting again anyway?
Post by: Org on November 14, 2009, 11:34:31 pm
So, what was the reason for the votes on Rashulil and Neruz?
Post by: webadict on November 14, 2009, 11:39:28 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 14, 2009, 11:44:51 pm
So, does ANYONE look bad 'to you'? or is this just a room full of townies?
Post by: Org on November 14, 2009, 11:47:27 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on November 15, 2009, 12:47:21 am
And by that, I really mean early tomorrow, unless anybody has something shocking they want to add.
Post by: Neruz on November 15, 2009, 12:50:42 am
The hell is going on here.
Post by: Neruz on November 15, 2009, 12:55:28 am
Alright, here's some last words:
"Why the fuck am i still standing?"
I've already said who i think is scum; Rashilul and Dak have both drawn my attention somewhat (Rashilul especially), eduren is also worth watching.
SirBayer's insecurity also marks him as rather suspicious, eduren hasn't really done anything super scummy, he's just been a bit off, so at the moment i'd chalk up the scum team as Rashilul, Dak and SirBayer.
Seriously, this entire situation smacks so hard of scum really not wanting to hammer me for fear of drawing attention that i can almost taste it.
Also, SHAD0Wdump, you sir, you are useless.
Pwease read the thread in future MrPerson.
Post by: dakarian on November 15, 2009, 01:24:11 am
Even on his death bed, Neruz refuses to say who he thinks is scummy. That in itself is scummy enough, as soon as nobody else has anything they'd like to add, I'll hammer his ass. He's not helping, he's just sitting around doing nothing.
And by that, I really mean early tomorrow, unless anybody has something shocking they want to add.
As soon as nobody else has anything to add...
Funny that, considering the thread is half dead since we're all waiting for the day to end or for someone to get aggressive.
Passivity noted. Lack of paying attention, noted.
Willingness to declare someone scummy without being willing to hammer, noted.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 15, 2009, 01:45:25 am
I do see Neruz's scummy behavior. Damn, it's a tough call. His behavior is scummy, his motivations seem anti-town... but for some reason, I think he's town. Yes, I'm aware what I'm saying is scummy. His recent posts just, well, seem to be self-sacrificial. He posted his suspicions, yes, but more importantly, he pretty much dared people to vote him. He said that people who don't vote for him are scummy. Does that sound like the kind of guy who wants to stay alive? No, no it doesn't. On the other hand, it also doesn't sound pro-town. It's a bad argument that only really works on beginners. Anyone with even an ounce of skill would know that the proper thing to do would be to hammer Neruz with a good explanation. So I don't know. It's not scummy, but it's not townish, either. It's all null tells for me. I'm trying to not get sucked into the bandwagon or let my desires to get on with the fucking game cloud my judgement :D
On a different note, if you read this post, you'll realize I'm acting scummy in this post. I figured that out while typing it. It would seem that I'm either trying to get votes off Neruz or get somebody else to hammer Neruz and take the fall for it. I am, in fact, doing neither (The hammer vote and the ly-1 vote are pretty much the same, in my eyes). I'm just saying I'm not going to hammer Neruz. I just don't know. I don't think he's scum, but I don't think he's town, either. He confuses me. It's only made worse in that I have no idea what to ask him. I suppose I'll just have to ask his voters. SHAD0Wdump, why are you voting Neruz? I'm only singling you out because you were the most recent. I'm just going to go ahead and say it, if you haven't said why you think Neruz is scum, you need to do so.
Oh, and the fact that I'm saying my scumminess and explaining it makes that scumminess a null-tell. I'm doing that on purpose. I'll freely admit I'm acting scummy on my own definitions. I'm still posting it because I want to get my opinion out. If I said anything else, I'd be lying. I'm making it a null tell on purpose because if I have to say something scummy, I might as well make it look as unscummy as possible. So yes, I'm going to purposely only show null tells for this post only. Oh, and yes, I do see the WIFOM I've set up with this post. Sorry, but I figure adding WIFOM is better than saying nothing.
Oh boy, a smallish WoT defending myself from attacks that nobody might of even made. You say "defensive", I say "overanalytical and self-judgmental". The best part? It's to defend myself from saying "I don't know".
So I guess I should try finding out. So I will, by rereading Neruz's posts in this thread. I've got free time, don't judge me.
Post by: Neruz on November 15, 2009, 01:59:08 am
He said that people who don't vote for him are scummy.
Wat?
Post by: dakarian on November 15, 2009, 02:13:27 am
Spoiler: babbling about WIFOM (click to show/hide)
The short of all that: Most of your post, Mr.Person, is ignored. What's left is wishy washiness, a desire to take up both sides of the fence, and a wish to flood the town with babble than actually hunting for someone (you think Shadow is going to take a deep interest in ONE quick, VERY passive attack stuck in the middle of a mass of self-defense?)
Consider that a FoS with serious thought towards what my next moves will be.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 15, 2009, 02:49:45 am
Spoiler: babbling about WIFOM (click to show/hide)
The short of all that: Most of your post, Mr.Person, is ignored. What's left is wishy washiness, a desire to take up both sides of the fence, and a wish to flood the town with babble than actually hunting for someone (you think Shadow is going to take a deep interest in ONE quick, VERY passive attack stuck in the middle of a mass of self-defense?)
Consider that a FoS with serious thought towards what my next moves will be.
You act like WIFOM is an ultimate evil. Well, it is bad, but it doesn't have to dominate things. I would say to ignore it, but the proper response would really be to read it, take your first instincts on the first pass, and go with that. Don't read into WIFOMy statements too much. "Oh, but that's what he wants me to think, I'd better read into the statement a whole lot!". You'll get nowhere with that, but sure, go ahead. I won't stop anyone from wasting their own time. Who knows, maybe somebody will figure out I'm town from reading into my WIFOMy statement.
Alright, look at it this way. If I was scum, why would I make the post? To WIFOM the town? Maybe, maybe, but realistically, so I could get away with not hammering Neruz. If I was town, I would post the WIFOM there to say something scummy that happens to be my thoughts, but mainly, I don't want to hammer Neruz. Thus, null tell, and in either case, I would want to make it as null-telliest as possible. Thus the WIFOM.
Now you've got an easy job: Determine if I don't want to hammer Neruz because I truly can't read him or because I have alterior motives. It's that easy. Wow, it's like you're... determining if I'm lying? Wow, it's like a regular game of mafia all over again!
Wait, how is pre-defending oneself scummy, exactly? Dakarian, you're blowing a little bit of null-tell WIFOM out of proportion. Good job mentioning it, bad job on trying to make me look scummy for it without getting aggressive at all.
Yes, I do expect SHAD0Wdump to take interest in my request (requests aren't attacks, mate). Why wouldn't I?
He said that people who don't vote for him are scummy.
Wat?
Seriously, this entire situation smacks so hard of scum really not wanting to hammer me for fear of drawing attention that i can almost taste it.
Which is a good point, btw, but I dunno why you would bring that up. That's kinda what I meant, you're basically saying 'Lynch me or you'll look scummy", which is obviously false.
Post by: dakarian on November 15, 2009, 03:06:38 am
Not getting aggressive. Funny that. I've said to your face that you are being wishy washy, passive, and self-defensive. Do you take those as compliments?
THIS post though can be summed up as: "I don't think Neruz is scum"
Though it also has a hint of "I'm not that interested on who scum is."
Though, in truth, your entire post, and much of the other post is for this goal:
Quote
Who knows, maybe somebody will figure out I'm town from reading into my WIFOMy statement.
Aka, you want to look town.
Post by: Neruz on November 15, 2009, 03:11:07 am
Which is a good point, btw, but I dunno why you would bring that up. That's kinda what I meant, you're basically saying 'Lynch me or you'll look scummy", which is obviously false.
Oh, no, it's the people who are flip-flopping over whether to lynch me, saying that they think i'm scum but then backing off at the last minute who look scummy.
It's not "Lynch me or you'll look scummy." it's "Make up your mind or you'll look scummy." Which is perfectly valid.
Post by: Eduren on November 15, 2009, 03:17:14 am
What I'm saying is that I no longer am clear about what started this. I am going to try to outline it and more observant people are welcome to correct me.
- Toony calls him out on acting scummy (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg861226#msg861226)
- He starts going vote-crazy (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg861347#msg861347)
- Revealed that his craziness was a ploy (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg861813#msg861813)
- And the rest seems to be him fighting off the growing bandwagon
Toony's original accusations were flimsy at best. Neruz' vote-craziness really does seem staged and I am willing to believe that he was looking for reactions (seeing as he has acted fairly calmly afterwards). Since then he has been able to defend himself without looking too scummy and still contributing to town conversation.
However, if I missed something big and you point it out to me, then I'd be more than willing to hammer. Until then, we should keep talking.
Rashilul: My vote on you happened so long ago that I have forgotten the reasons. So I'll ask you this, What does all this look like to you? Is there anybody on your scum-list?
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 15, 2009, 01:49:46 pm
SHAD0Wdump, why are you voting Neruz?Um... Heh...
I thought it would hammer... <_<==>_>
Post by: ToonyMan on November 15, 2009, 01:51:45 pm
Unvote dakarian.
Vote Neruz. Screw you guys and your waiting. NOTHING IS GOING TO GET DONE. Let's see if he was Town or Mafia now.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 15, 2009, 02:05:35 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 15, 2009, 02:06:40 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 15, 2009, 02:16:09 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 15, 2009, 03:52:12 pm
Quote
Neruz - Altar of the World Machine
You are an altar. If there was a cult, it would make sacrifices on you, but there is not. Instead, you've become able to ALTER things FOR the World Machine. You are a redirector. Redirect [Player1] to [Player2] (or back to [Player1]) will cause [Player1] to change his target. You win when all scum are dead.
No wonder it took so long to haul him to the top of the execution tower.
IT IS NOW NIGHT 2
NIGHT 2 ENDS AT 9 PM PACIFIC ON TUESDAY.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 18, 2009, 02:36:02 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 18, 2009, 10:22:38 pm
Org, you noticed, did nothing last night, but he responded to a prod so he won't be replaced but I fucking swear Org, go inactive again and I skip straight to replacing you.
Anyway:
Quote
Apostolic Nihilist - Charles Darwin
You are, as the father of the concept of evolution, in possession of the powers of mutation. Each night, you can mutate, which will give you one or more of the following powers until you next mutate:
Kill
Inspect
Protect
Roleblock
You may draw any possible variant of the roles your receive with those powers (for instance, 0% vig, CPR Doctor, insane daycop) due to your own doubt in your theory. You win when all scum are dead.
You know what to do.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 18, 2009, 10:23:04 pm
TRY AGAIN RULE IS NOW IN PLACE
Post by: SirBayer on November 18, 2009, 11:59:11 pm
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 19, 2009, 12:00:47 am
Post by: dakarian on November 19, 2009, 12:02:58 am
Hey Meph!
What's up?
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 19, 2009, 12:03:55 am
Shadowdump, why did you want to hammer?For 'lulz'.
Sorry.
Post by: SirBayer on November 19, 2009, 01:01:52 am
Post by: Mr.Person on November 19, 2009, 01:39:30 am
I do believe WIFOM is the ultimate evil. I believe it's more powerful than the Night Kill. I've seen towns knowing, KNOWING who the scum is and pulling back because of it.
Not getting aggressive. Funny that. I've said to your face that you are being wishy washy, passive, and self-defensive. Do you take those as compliments?
THIS post though can be summed up as: "I don't think Neruz is scum"
Though it also has a hint of "I'm not that interested on who scum is."
Though, in truth, your entire post, and much of the other post is for this goal:QuoteWho knows, maybe somebody will figure out I'm town from reading into my WIFOMy statement.
Aka, you want to look town.
"I'm aggressive, see, I even said you were acting scummy! I'm not going to vote you or say you're scum, but I am going to say you might be scum. See how non-passive I am guys!"
Vote Dakarian. You're lying, you haven't been aggressive all game. You being passive is a scum-tell, thus, you're scum. Double whammy, really. You also haven't answered my question, which was how predefending oneself was scummy.
For instance, you say I'm trying to look town. You don't say it's scummy to do that, so it's not an attack. Then again, if you did say it's scummy to try and look town, I'd laugh at you. Everybody's trying to look town, that's kind of the goal. Sure, scum try harder to look town, but the town would very much like to be seen as town, too. Thus, trying to look town is a null tell. To add insult to injury, I wasn't actively trying to look town to anyone. I was saying that somebody might read into what I said and figure out my alignment from it. Yes, I suppose I could of said "somebody might figure out my alignment from reading into my WIFOMy statement", but I didn't think it mattered. Apparently, it does in scum-Dakarian land.
Post by: Eduren on November 19, 2009, 01:57:41 am
And no progression is made!
Unvote dakarian.
Vote Neruz. Screw you guys and your waiting. NOTHING IS GOING TO GET DONE. Let's see if he was Town or Mafia now.
Toony: Why did you think nothing would come of further discussion? I believe I brought up a few good points about how this was an irrational bandwagon and would have liked to have taken a closer look.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 19, 2009, 02:20:15 am
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 19, 2009, 07:15:22 am
Ask for a replacement, or be lynched.I don wanna.
Post by: Org on November 19, 2009, 07:21:20 am
Maybe I didnt want to do a night action?
Cobalt Kobold hasnt been here.
Post by: dakarian on November 19, 2009, 08:40:31 am
"I'm aggressive, see, I even said you were acting scummy! I'm not going to vote you or say you're scum, but I am going to say you might be scum. See how non-passive I am guys!"
Vote Dakarian. You're lying, you haven't been aggressive all game. You being passive is a scum-tell, thus, you're scum. Double whammy, really. You also haven't answered my question, which was how predefending oneself was scummy.Quote
1. You feed words into my mouth that I didn't say then call me a liar for not following them. Manipulation of wording. Noted.
2. Excluding the insanely bitter end of D2 when we all grew tired as anything, mind explaining just how I have NOT been aggressive?QuoteFor instance, you say I'm trying to look town. You don't say it's scummy to do that, so it's not an attack. Then again, if you did say it's scummy to try and look town, I'd laugh at you. Everybody's trying to look town, that's kind of the goal. Sure, scum try harder to look town, but the town would very much like to be seen as town, too. Thus, trying to look town is a null tell.
Town isn't trying to LOOK town. Town is trying to hunt SCUM. When you see a town worried over their own scumtells you end up seeing a town that's either unable to attack a scum properly or..well.. true scum.
We don't scumhunt to look pretty. We scumhunt to find the enemy, even if it kills us.
The phrase wasn't a soft one. Claiming that you are 'trying to look town' is read as "you are playing an act". Towns ARE town.. Scum ACT town.QuoteTo add insult to injury, I wasn't actively trying to look town to anyone. I was saying that somebody might read into what I said and figure out my alignment from it. Yes, I suppose I could of said "somebody might figure out my alignment from reading into my WIFOMy statement", but I didn't think it mattered. Apparently, it does in scum-Dakarian land.
How about instead of worrying over whether you 'fit in as town' you actually try hunting the enemy instead?
In fact, I find it very interesting that, beyond your claim that I'm Passive that you VERY MUCH need to show evidence of to keep that as a crap claim, your main argument to me being scum is based on my mafiatheory not matching with yours: that I don't see your "see? I can look town" as a null tell like you want me to.
Also a whole ton of this post seems less about why I am scum but why I am wrong in thinking you did a scummy act. You're defending yourself during an attack on me :P. What's more, you felt so concerned to PROVE that you weren't acting scummy that you had to wait until the perfect moment-after Neruz was killed and once everyone was rested in Day 3 and needed a new person to lynch-to bring it up.
So attempting to throw back my argument at me with no evidence, using that 'attack' to defend yourself, deciding not to bring it up Day 2 when it was still fresh but in Day 3 so it can be the first thing on people's minds, and word manipulation while basing an argument on said manipulation.
Wow.. I really did forget about what you brought up: normally I'd have to do a scan to retrieve it. You not only brought it back for me but gave even more to hang yourself with.
Unvote Meph Vote Mr.Person
Btw, pre-defense is a VERY small scumtell, just enough to make a note and comment but not enough to lynch alone. It suggests that you are carefully controlling your responses like how a killer will cover their tracks to avoid detection. It also suggests fear of being attacked.
Again, a small thing, but it's NOT a town-tell and it's a bit more dark for a null tell.
Trying to defend yourself in the cover of an 'attack'.. now THAT is a very ugly scum tell.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 19, 2009, 08:45:18 am
Post by: dakarian on November 19, 2009, 08:50:02 am
Spoiler: the above post, properly quoted (click to show/hide)
Post by: Cheeetar on November 19, 2009, 08:50:53 am
Post by: dakarian on November 19, 2009, 08:57:45 am
His attack had very little to go on. I accused him of being passive. He went "No YOU!" and left it at that. He clearly had time to post a good deal and quote past information, so it would've been better if he spent more of that time showing how I was being passive 'all game'. As it stands, it just seems like an excuse to let himself go on about his defense without looking otherwise.
Thus the point of 'looking like town' instead of 'being town'. The attack is just there to make it seem like something more than it is: a self-defensive post. He wants to look aggressive, but he's not. He wants to look town, but he's not..not really.
Post by: webadict on November 19, 2009, 09:48:13 am
dakarian.
I see you're bringing back the OMGUS for scumtells, as well as keeping the overdefensiveness.
Post by: dakarian on November 19, 2009, 09:55:50 am
Post by: webadict on November 19, 2009, 11:58:46 am
Meh, OMGUS never worked as a scumtell and Mr.Person's post was about as bad as they come for attacks. If you're going to attack me, do something other than spend the entire post defending yourself.
Post by: dakarian on November 19, 2009, 12:04:00 pm
Post by: webadict on November 19, 2009, 12:13:40 pm
I spent that post counterstriking his argument. He spent his time with an unsupported accusation and a mass of why he didn't look scummy. I replied with how his argument didn't work and the manner of how he did it makes him look worse.
Post by: dakarian on November 19, 2009, 12:20:21 pm
I stand by it though, but I'll give him a proper scan.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 19, 2009, 12:23:45 pm
Web is now making odd posts...not sure what to make of that, though.
Hopefully I'll have some time to dig back into this thread today. It's been too long. Also, I need to see what I can learn from Apostolic Nihilist's death.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 19, 2009, 12:31:50 pm
This game will go on for a while. 14 people means about 7 more days. HAMMER Days.Pardon me for being asleep.
Maybe I didnt want to do a night action?
Cobalt Kobold hasnt been here.
I suppose I could of said "somebody might figure out my alignment from reading into my WIFOMy statement", but I didn't think it mattered. Apparently, it does in scum-Dakarian land.I don't think it matters either. IF you're bringing the town WIFOM, you're more likely scum than not.
KILL WEBADICT NOW RULE IS NO LONGER IN PLACEwebadict. I have adequately explained my reasons before. Today, I hope there is not enemy action bringing us to not lynch him again.
TRY AGAIN RULE IS NOW IN PLACE
Quote from: Goldfinger
First time is happenstance. Second is coincidence. Third time, it's enemy action.webadict, are you trying to point out dakarian's hypocrisy, you overflowing scumbucket?
Post by: webadict on November 19, 2009, 12:53:32 pm
Hmm...time to reevaluate people. Neruz was apparently being odd for the sake of being odd after all.Why is it you're too busy to post?
Web is now making odd posts...not sure what to make of that, though.
Hopefully I'll have some time to dig back into this thread today. It's been too long. Also, I need to see what I can learn from Apostolic Nihilist's death.
...? By your last post, I'm technically not an enemy, now am I?This game will go on for a while. 14 people means about 7 more days. HAMMER Days.Pardon me for being asleep.
Maybe I didnt want to do a night action?
Cobalt Kobold hasnt been here.I suppose I could of said "somebody might figure out my alignment from reading into my WIFOMy statement", but I didn't think it mattered. Apparently, it does in scum-Dakarian land.I don't think it matters either. IF you're bringing the town WIFOM, you're more likely scum than not.KILL WEBADICT NOW RULE IS NO LONGER IN PLACEwebadict. I have adequately explained my reasons before. Today, I hope there is not enemy action bringing us to not lynch him again.
TRY AGAIN RULE IS NOW IN PLACEQuote from: GoldfingerFirst time is happenstance. Second is coincidence. Third time, it's enemy action.webadict, are you trying to point out dakarian's hypocrisy, you overflowing scumbucket?
I see what you did there.Yeah, I did do it. Big whoop. My argument is equal to your argument.
I stand by it though, but I'll give him a proper scan.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 19, 2009, 01:00:40 pm
Hmm...time to reevaluate people. Neruz was apparently being odd for the sake of being odd after all.Why is it you're too busy to post?
Web is now making odd posts...not sure what to make of that, though.
Hopefully I'll have some time to dig back into this thread today. It's been too long. Also, I need to see what I can learn from Apostolic Nihilist's death.
Not post, read. Right now I don't have any clear ideas on who's scum, so I need to sift back through a bunch of stuff. This week has been super hectic at work, and I honestly can't remember much of what happened in the last 30-odd pages of this game. Focusing on Neruz too much blinded me from a lot of what was going on, I think.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 19, 2009, 01:07:57 pm
...? By your last post, I'm technically not an enemy, now am I?It was primarily for highlighting my thought process that says it's rather eccentric that you have been picked by most of the town as lynch target two days in a row and yet are still alive? I don't think you have influence over the mod. I am not Goldfinger. He had no other real evidence other than "being in the same place at the same time," which is why he required three instances of occurrence. I, on the other claw, do.
Post by: Rashilul on November 19, 2009, 01:13:55 pm
dakarian your being too hypocritical
you like 'Dudes defending himself must die' and then your all defending yourself and shit at every finger pointin your way
Post by: Vector on November 19, 2009, 01:20:29 pm
bro there is some sick shit goin on in here
dakarian your being too hypocritical
you like 'Dudes defending himself must die' and then your all defending yourself and shit at every finger pointin your way
All right, Rashilul. So, either you're town that for some reason thinks that piling on bandwagons is Fun and Advisable, or you're scum that's trying to get Dakarian dead before we can get much discussion out D3.
It's early in the day. Why aren't you asking him any questions? Why are you using others' reasoning? Why aren't you looking into his other behavior?
Oh, and if your answer was going to be "Don' have enough time to spend on teh mafia," I'll ask why you're not at least being helpful and getting a lurker to come out here. As-is, you are not being helpful, and as long as you keep acting like this my vote will remain.
Post by: dakarian on November 19, 2009, 01:31:28 pm
Rash do you like cutting and pasting your arguments from others? Now you're using web's.
Web, just because your attacking me doesn't discredit my attack on Person. "My arguement is equal to your argument." Fine, then. You better have a good strong case against me then, because if you grow soft and pull off me before I'm done with Mr.person then we'll know how true THAT statement is.
Post by: SirBayer on November 19, 2009, 01:56:22 pm
Speaking of which, why is no one willing to help us make Shadow be useful or dead? He should be one of the two.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 19, 2009, 02:03:00 pm
Post by: Vector on November 19, 2009, 02:08:43 pm
QUICKLY NOBODY HAS VOTED FOR VECTOR I MUST DO IT
Speaking of which, why is no one willing to help us make Shadow be useful or dead? He should be one of the two.
THEN COME VOTE ME, DEFLECTING SCUMBUCKET.
A good point, though theoretically he's supposed to be being useful at night. I sincerely doubt Pandarsenic would give him such a ridiculous post restriction without something good to go along with. Oh, well. He always looks like scum to me, but that's no excuse for not finding out.
SHAD0Wdump, please provide the names of the three people you find most suspicious right now. That's a good start. Then please write a post for each person with ... well, quotes, or something, to tell us why you think that.
Post by: dakarian on November 19, 2009, 02:19:52 pm
Posting suspicions going for the hills? Oh really? I remember the all out attack on ExKirby, complete with scan that lead to using my day kill on him. I remember running a scan on Meph which resulted in something ugly but not completely horrible. I also had done lookups on Rash who is still under my eye, made several attacks on Neruz for varying results, and spent some time with you resulting in what's going on now.
And that was during a time when even I admit I was 'passive'.
But you know you had little on me, even though you sounded so sure last post. You just wanted me to pull back an old statement before it blew you up in the face once we started running scans of Day 2. You used an exaggerated claim to weaken my standing and now that I demanded evidence you pull back to something 'more reasonable but not enough to lynch with'.
And, of course, the "who should I be hunting instead of you" question comes out. Don't fuss, it's a Null tell all by itself. However, combined with the rest it doesn't look good on you.
To answer: You look almost horrible enough to lynch. Meph smells bad, Rash I always had a problem with but it's tricky to tell if he's unsure what to do as town or unsure what to do as scum.
I'll need to run scans for any others. However, you're already providing plenty with just what you gave today.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 19, 2009, 02:26:51 pm
You use too many pronouns and no quote. Please specify who "you" is in that post. (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg876495#msg876495)
Post by: ToonyMan on November 19, 2009, 02:31:38 pm
Ok, first stop on the scumtour:
Hey Meph!
What's up?
Nice job trying to lead a wagon onto your scum partner. dakarian.
Next up would be (besides Meph and dakarian)...
eduren - Voting me because I was helping town continue on their quest to catch scum.
CobaltKobold - For trying to get webadict lynched (who is town).
That makes four scum right there, no?
Also, Neruz was town. I was right you stupid people.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 19, 2009, 02:32:26 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 19, 2009, 02:39:04 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 19, 2009, 02:44:16 pm
dakarian = scum
Webadict = town
I don't need super role powers to tell me that.
Post by: dakarian on November 19, 2009, 02:51:09 pm
Dear Sir (or madam) dakarian,
You use too many pronouns and no quote. Please specify who "you" is in that post. (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg876495#msg876495)
I'm male, but just 'Dakarian' or 'Dak' will suit me fine.
The post is directed at Mr.Person.
@Toonyman
Grounds on the accusation that I'm a scum bussing another and not a town putting a vote on a possible scum?
And personally, I want to hear more from Meph during this day while I finish up on Mr.Person.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 19, 2009, 02:52:57 pm
You can squeeze Meph if you want though.
Post by: dakarian on November 19, 2009, 02:55:02 pm
Btw, if we're BOTH scum, why me first instead of him?
Post by: SirBayer on November 19, 2009, 03:00:40 pm
QUICKLY NOBODY HAS VOTED FOR VECTOR I MUST DO IT
THEN COME VOTE ME, DEFLECTING SCUMBUCKET.
Suddenly, someone tries to headshot Bayer, but the scumbucket on his head deflects it like a helmet!
Everyone wonders how he is breathing in a scumbucket.
Post by: Vector on November 19, 2009, 03:04:26 pm
QUICKLY NOBODY HAS VOTED FOR VECTOR I MUST DO IT
THEN COME VOTE ME, DEFLECTING SCUMBUCKET.
Suddenly, someone tries to headshot Bayer, but the scumbucket on his head deflects it like a helmet!
Everyone wonders how he is breathing in a scumbucket.
1. Don't bring that flavortext stuff in here. It's killing KWN and I'm not going to let it kill BYORP--this is already dead enough.
2. You don't just get to sit there and pretend to be aggressive, scumboy. That's called "bandwagon-directing." So cut it out and get some good, old-fashioned scumhunting done, like the rest of us.
Post by: SirBayer on November 19, 2009, 03:23:08 pm
No time to do it right now. I'll come back with some reads later in the day.
Post by: Vector on November 19, 2009, 03:26:51 pm
Aww, I can't have any fun.
No time to do it right now. I'll come back with some reads later in the day.
Fair enough.
I'll admit that it was kind of amusing >_>
Post by: Mr.Person on November 19, 2009, 03:50:02 pm
So your "he's been passive all game" statement was misrepresented, though that was your only attack on me. Nearly everyone went 'meh' half way through Day 2, which is when you saw me as 'meh'. Too many people triggering scumtells purposely or just causing a mess and lots of folks going silent.
Posting suspicions going for the hills? Oh really? I remember the all out attack on ExKirby, complete with scan that lead to using my day kill on him. I remember running a scan on Meph which resulted in something ugly but not completely horrible. I also had done lookups on Rash who is still under my eye, made several attacks on Neruz for varying results, and spent some time with you resulting in what's going on now.
And that was during a time when even I admit I was 'passive'.
But you know you had little on me, even though you sounded so sure last post. You just wanted me to pull back an old statement before it blew you up in the face once we started running scans of Day 2. You used an exaggerated claim to weaken my standing and now that I demanded evidence you pull back to something 'more reasonable but not enough to lynch with'.
And, of course, the "who should I be hunting instead of you" question comes out. Don't fuss, it's a Null tell all by itself. However, combined with the rest it doesn't look good on you.
To answer: You look almost horrible enough to lynch. Meph smells bad, Rash I always had a problem with but it's tricky to tell if he's unsure what to do as town or unsure what to do as scum.
I'll need to run scans for any others. However, you're already providing plenty with just what you gave today.
All out attack on ExKirby? Are we looking at the same posts? You basically said "You're scum, I'm going to kill you." You gave him a chance to claim, then killed him later without a claim. I've reread that part of the game, I can't seem to find why you thought ExKirby was scum originally. I know you thought he was scum because he gave up, but why did you threaten him in the first place. I think the only reason you attacked him was because you had the day-kill. After you killed ExKirby, you did pretty much nothing for the next half of the day, then jumped in to vote Rashilul. You unvote him and vote Neruz almost instantly. You got real convinced Neruz was scum, telling others to vote him. Convenient, considering you never said why you thought EITHER OF THEM was scum.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 19, 2009, 04:12:24 pm
Post by: Eduren on November 19, 2009, 04:39:53 pm
Also, Neruz was town. I was right you stupid people.Then why did you hammer him if you thought he was town?
Post by: dakarian on November 19, 2009, 04:40:16 pm
In any case,
The argument on ExKirby
1. There's 4 votes on webadict at the moment.
2. Just did a quickscan on Leafsnail:
First he Randomvotes ExKirby then later defends ExKirby, then fusses at him. He then Defends Toonyman while poking at Neruz, then later votes for Rashilul.
He then dissapears during the whole me vs Web thing and shows up again to fling a top suspects list: In that list he Votes Webadict, FOSes Meph/Rash/Zai, and casually mentions me
After the bandwagon breaks apart, he Unvotes Web and says he'll probably vote zai or rash
The last thing he does is Unvotes ExKirby, but that's because Pandarsenic showed him as voting for ExKirby.
OHBTW, Leaf was the 3rd vote on the Web bandwagon. 3rd vote scumtell strikes again!
As for ExKirby..he votes for SirBayer but unvotes once Sir speaks up, then wanders around wondering if he'll be killed and sits in confusion. He then votes Nihlist as a lurker hunt, then votes Web for being 'too pushy'. That's pretty much it.
Btw, the web vote: 4th vote, soon after Leaf's vote.
Unvote(Cheeetar), I believe ExKirby is scum.
Talk, NOW ExKirby. I don't have to wait for a bandwagon to wipe you out.
When you have a confirmed scum (Leafsnail) you can then scan the posts to try to catch their scummates. Some will buddy. Most will distance. Almost all will act 'funny' to each other.
It turned out to be wrong, but that was my argument. Mind if I see your post where you spoke against my reasoning and thought I was moving too fast on ExKirby?
As for the rest, it's funny that you fuss about my actions on Neruz since a large part of my post was arguing about him in both directions. He went completely nuts on the scumtells (he even admits he was throwing scumtells.. he said he was doing it purposely), went into defeatist mode at one point, then insane attack-mode. I pulled back off of him, pulled back in. Tried to see his side, kept finding more on him.. it was a mess. The end story came where he claimed then completely fumbled on his claim. In the end, he just looked scum.
Btw, the 'ask everyone to vote for him' was more a prod for others to speak up than to make them vote. Web, for example, laid an attack on another that showed why he wanted him. I wanted to hear if others had the same thing or if they were just voting just to 'avoid dealing with the Neruz issue'. It made sense to vote for him. It made sense to defend him. It made sense to want someone else dead. It looks bad when you aren't doing any of those three and just sitting there watching someone die.
Btw, before I go do my scan on you, mind if I ask what you were doing while Neruz was getting lynched?
Now, if I'm not being passive all game, or being mindlessly aggressive.. what's the next argument?
Post by: ToonyMan on November 19, 2009, 05:09:19 pm
Also, Neruz was town. I was right you stupid people.Then why did you hammer him if you thought he was town?
The game was stalling and I wanted a fresh start against you/scum.
Post by: webadict on November 19, 2009, 05:11:26 pm
We coulda at least tried to lynch someone else, no?Also, Neruz was town. I was right you stupid people.Then why did you hammer him if you thought he was town?
The game was stalling and I wanted a fresh start against you/scum.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 19, 2009, 05:12:24 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on November 19, 2009, 05:37:20 pm
Yes, you've been passive. After you killed ExKirby, you have not been active AT ALL until right now. Go ahead, say every attack you've made since then.
Wait a fucking second, why didn't you kill d1? Why did you wait until d2? I can understand not wanting to act like Web in Paranormal XI, but you should always day kill on the first day, especially since you had strong suspicions. You wanted to kill Webadict, you were waiting for his inspection result, yes? You should of shot who you thought was scum, thus giving us 2 lynches. You did so, but only on the second day, not the first. I don't know why you would do that, unless you were worried Webadict would figure out you had a day kill AND you two were of opposite alignments. I'm just saying, your behavior changes dramatically after the first night, which I'm saying is probably due to being converted into the mafia.
Post by: Eduren on November 19, 2009, 05:38:58 pm
Says the person that did nothing to do so.Well I was doing something about it.
Let me get this straight? You hammered somebody that you thought was town, simply because the day was going on too long? Isn't the point of Hammers that we have all the time we need to get a lynch right?
Post by: ToonyMan on November 19, 2009, 05:41:27 pm
Eduren, I hammered Neruz to prove a point. Not just to end the day, but because I wanted to prove Neruz was town (which he was).
Now, will people listen to me? I had been voting dakarian before I dropped the hammer and I will continue to do so.
Post by: Eduren on November 19, 2009, 05:45:15 pm
Here I am (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.1075) questioning the logic of a Neruz lynch and imploring people to re-evaluate it.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 19, 2009, 05:45:53 pm
Post by: Eduren on November 19, 2009, 05:49:29 pm
You lynched him to prove a point??!!!!!!??
Post by: Org on November 19, 2009, 05:50:41 pm
Good luck escaping it, Eduren.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 19, 2009, 05:52:48 pm
Let me reiterate.
You lynched him to prove a point??!!!!!!??
Only scum make that many ending mark...things. =P
Eduren, you're not my top suspect.
Post by: Eduren on November 19, 2009, 05:55:45 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 19, 2009, 05:56:42 pm
Actually, I've never done it before. XD
Post by: Mephansteras on November 19, 2009, 05:58:03 pm
I've been looking at this different for a bit.
Let's just go along with the ifs for a bit.
IF Neruz is town. That would make Apostolic, dakarian, and Meph scum easily.
Let's see...Apostolic Nihilst was Town, we learned that last night. dakarian is town, I learned that yesterday from his day-kill of ExKirby. And I know I'm town.
So...ToonyMan, you're either scum and using your null-tell self to hide it and get away with killing town or your Toony Tunnel is just really broken today. Which is it?
Post by: ToonyMan on November 19, 2009, 06:01:07 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 19, 2009, 06:02:20 pm
I've been looking at this different for a bit.
Let's just go along with the ifs for a bit.
IF Neruz is town. That would make Apostolic, dakarian, and Meph scum easily.
Let's see...Apostolic Nihilst was Town, we learned that last night. dakarian is town, I learned that yesterday from his day-kill of ExKirby. And I know I'm town.
So...ToonyMan, you're either scum and using your null-tell self to hide it and get away with killing town or your Toony Tunnel is just really broken today. Which is it?
Also, huh?
How does this proof townitude?
Post by: Eduren on November 19, 2009, 06:08:03 pm
You must have missed his claim. (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg864273#msg864273)I've been looking at this different for a bit.
Let's just go along with the ifs for a bit.
IF Neruz is town. That would make Apostolic, dakarian, and Meph scum easily.
Let's see...Apostolic Nihilst was Town, we learned that last night. dakarian is town, I learned that yesterday from his day-kill of ExKirby. And I know I'm town.
So...ToonyMan, you're either scum and using your null-tell self to hide it and get away with killing town or your Toony Tunnel is just really broken today. Which is it?
Also, huh?
How does this proof townitude?
Of course he could be lying but that is a given.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 19, 2009, 06:09:16 pm
Quite cool indeed. I'm surprised I missed that.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 19, 2009, 06:11:58 pm
No, I can't prove that without dying. But it is enough for me to know that dakarian is town. And I know I'm town. So, based off the information I have you're either doing really really bad at finding scum this game or you are scum. Right now, I think you're scum.
You voted for both people who've been killed so far this game, hammering the second, and you have been focusing a lot on people who I either know are town or flipped town on death.
I think your "I told you Neruz was town" quote is just you being scum and trying to look town by telling people you didn't think he was scum.
Fake-Edit: If everyone decides they need to lynch me today to prove it GO RIGHT AHEAD!. I'm town this game and I'm not afraid of dying if it'll help us win.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 19, 2009, 06:17:28 pm
Post by: webadict on November 19, 2009, 07:28:33 pm
I have an investigative role that tells me the alignment of the person who killed someone. I investigated ExKirby yesterday and learned that the person who killed him was town. Ergo, dakarian was town....So then what did you get today...
No, I can't prove that without dying. But it is enough for me to know that dakarian is town. And I know I'm town. So, based off the information I have you're either doing really really bad at finding scum this game or you are scum. Right now, I think you're scum.
You voted for both people who've been killed so far this game, hammering the second, and you have been focusing a lot on people who I either know are town or flipped town on death.
I think your "I told you Neruz was town" quote is just you being scum and trying to look town by telling people you didn't think he was scum.
Fake-Edit: If everyone decides they need to lynch me today to prove it GO RIGHT AHEAD!. I'm town this game and I'm not afraid of dying if it'll help us win.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 19, 2009, 07:34:12 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 19, 2009, 07:35:52 pm
Or did you forget about your fake-claim?
Post by: Mephansteras on November 19, 2009, 07:40:52 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 19, 2009, 08:22:37 pm
It didn't hit me until earlier, especially since ExKirby's demeanor later on was very scummy, but at first, your entire case was based around a scum who knew he was going to be dead. Anybody could tell you the WIFOM potential there. In any case, what happened to your Webadict suspicions? They just died during the first night.
You need a paragraph between those two ideas.
About ExKirby, scum-links still exist even if the scum think they are hiding it. Anyone could tell me? Funny, NO ONE DID. I thought it was valid. ExKirby not defending himself at all didn't help and no one else stepped in. If it really was that bad of a move I would've LOVED if you had said it back in D2. Given what I had known then, I stand by my choice.
About Web.. I'll need a scan on him to read him. Still need to deal with you first.
Quote
Yes, you've been passive. After you killed ExKirby, you have not been active AT ALL until right now. Go ahead, say every attack you've made since then.
Wait wait wait.. so first I'm passive and did nothing.. then I pushed hard for Neruz to die, complete with bringing in others to vote for him.. now I'm passive and did nothing again.
Choose. Either I was passive and didn't try to kill Neruz or I mindlessly attacked him to death for no good reason.
Meanwhile:
I remember running a scan on Meph which resulted in something ugly but not completely horrible. I also had done lookups on Rash who is still under my eye, made several attacks on Neruz for varying results, and spent some time with you resulting in what's going on now.
And that was during a time when even I admit I was 'passive'.
And that's without a scan on myself to find the details.
Quote
Wait a fucking second, why didn't you kill d1? Why did you wait until d2? I can understand not wanting to act like Web in Paranormal XI, but you should always day kill on the first day, especially since you had strong suspicions. You wanted to kill Webadict, you were waiting for his inspection result, yes? You should of shot who you thought was scum, thus giving us 2 lynches. You did so, but only on the second day, not the first. I don't know why you would do that, unless you were worried Webadict would figure out you had a day kill AND you two were of opposite alignments. I'm just saying, your behavior changes dramatically after the first night, which I'm saying is probably due to being converted into the mafia.
Day 1 is hard as nails to get a good attack on since we're busy trying to feel each other out. Alex tried the D1 kill thing in Bay 12 and hit town twice. Waiting longer means you get a better chance of hitting scum. It also means a better chance of dying before you can use it. So I compromised and claimed on D2.
No I was not waiting on Web's investigation.
I DID shoot who I thought was scum, giving us 2 lynches.
If I feared Webadict, wouldn't it make more sense just to daykill him and leave it at that? Note my power doesn't show who did the kill: you know only because I claimed.
So NOW you're saying I'm acting radically different from D1 to D2.
So it goes from Hyperpassiveness, to RandomAggression, back to Hyperpassiveness, and now to ChangeofStyle with each one only showing up AFTER I blow the last one out of the water.
If you had ALL of these arguments against me, why didn't your first post bring them up?
Why does it sound like you are fishing for more reasons instead of presenting your whole case?
Why is every one vague with few examples?
Why do you not keep to the same argument after I tear it down if you really believe that's what makes me scummy?
You don't HAVE a solid reason. You just want to keep throwing things at me until something sticks, or perhaps I just get tired of you. Well, go ahead and keep going. It won't change the fact that you are scum.
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 19, 2009, 08:23:27 pm
Fine.
Requesting a replacement.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 19, 2009, 09:36:34 pm
Here's day one. First, you jump on Neruz, I believe. You were putting pressure on him when suddenly Webadict shows up. You two argue. While the two of you are arguing, you continually say Neruz needs additional pressure. You don't apply this pressure and in fact never ask Neruz another question once Webadict hit the scene. Eventually, you totally forget about Neruz. After about 4 people vote for Webadict, you don't post again until Eduren's claim. After that, you exclaim Zai needs to die without voting him. Later, you jump in at slot 5, I remember, and then disappear again.
Day two, things are different. You're not doing wide scans, and you barely ask any questions. Quickly, you announce you have a day kill and say you'd like to kill ExKirby. When you said this, ExKirby's response was scummy enough to justify killing him. THAT'S why I had no qualms with you killing him. Your original reason was WIFOMy (another reason I didn't bring it up, turns out that I should of, sue me), but ExKirby's response was scummy. Anyways, after that, you ask some questions, but you aren't attacking anyone, not in a way that would really find scum. When you finally do attack someone, it's Neruz. You jump off him fairly quick, then vote Meph and Cheetar on pretty much no case. After unvoting both of them, you havn't done much of anything. There was the eventual lynch at the end of day 2, yeah, but other than that and parts of the Neruz attacks (even they were fairly mild, by your standards), you really didn't do much day 2.
Day 3, of course, you've literally done NOTHING until now. Well, ok, you did a single wide-scan, but those never really bring much up, that's for sure.
Post by: dakarian on November 19, 2009, 10:21:40 pm
Random aggression? Not only have I not said you did that, but that's not even scummy. Don't know where you got that from, so I'm just going to ignore that. Wanna know why there's few examples? I'm not in the mood to quote posts from a thread this size, plus, how am I supposed to quote a lack of attacks, quote all your posts?
Better term would be AggressionWithoutCause then. Either way it doesn't work.
So you bring up a 'scan' of what I've done... which proves you really SHOULD be looking at the past posts before doing this because you were wrong.
My first vote was on you.. a randomvote. My first attack was on Eduren (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg852210#msg852210), NOT Neruz.
I attack him then wait for his response. He didn't write ANYTHING during the Web/Dakarian battle, so while I was waiting for Eduren to speak to me, I fought against Web. Once I was done with Web, I was STILL waiting for Eduren. Eventually Eduren speaks answering my original question and that's that.
By then everyone is crying about the ton of posts. I fuss at them, then reorganize with my Wide Scan. With that scan, I find Zai scummy (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg853809#msg853809) so I vote for him.
5th vote? Pandarsenic got the vote count wrong remember? I was 2nd! Proof? Read Pandarsenic's Vote count (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg853768#msg853768) one page before my vote, go up one page, and find my vote for Zai.. 2nd vote with you, Mr.Person, as the 1st.
Did nothing after? Bull (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg854037#msg854037)
Day 2 the day JUST started and I did not just JUMP on ExKirby. I told everyone this instead:
Meanwhile, Leaf dying is part of the role. Story wise, he's killed someone and is now looking EXACTLY like that person. Game wise, Leaf dies and someone just got converted.
There's a few benefits though from all this: Now that we know Leaf is scum, we can run a scan to find his partners on D1. Finding the convert will be impossible for the moment, but that will change later on.
I did the same trick in Bay 12 mafia and found ChaoticJosh by it. It also mislynched Boksi but meh.
So I do my scan on Leaf (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg859241#msg859241) and found ExKirby.
By the way.
Quote
Your original reason was WIFOMy (another reason I didn't bring it up, turns out that I should of, sue me), but ExKirby's response was scummy.
You said I had no reason.. now you say 'well he was scummy and I didn't say anything about possible WIFOM issues'.
After that, my scans go to Rash as the next target and, like Eduren, I'm stuck with him saying nothing for a while. I question others while I wait, then end up realizing Rash went AWOL and demand a prod (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg862471#msg862471).
Now that Rash is in lurk mode-and you remember I don't lynch lurkers when I can prod/replace them-I turn to Neruz who by now has gone into superscumtell flinger mode.
I fight with Neruz, get Kook vibes, get scum vibes, over and over. I pull off him and try to attack others. By then it's half way through day 2 which, as we've said, I've gone passive due to wariness. Votes for Meph go on, but he claims and I pull back due to the claim to hold him for later. Cheeetar gets a vote for hammering but that's not a strong tell. Eventually, Neruz shows up again near a lynch and I ask him to claim. He claims and, at first, it might be honest.. then he fumbles the claim which is as ugly as you can get. He gets lynched.
Day 3...
I did no wide scan day 3. When the day started, I threw a quick vote for Meph, then you rush at me and I've been on your case ever since.
Now that I know your accusations are due to not having a dang clue of what I've been doing since Day 1, I can finally finish my defense and get to a scan of you instead. Now, are you just a person that doesn't bother to check facts, or are you scum that was trapped trying to lynch me?
Post by: dakarian on November 19, 2009, 11:44:03 pm
Spoiler: Scanning.. (click to show/hide)
I think I see you now. You went after Zai for the same reasons I did: he looked so scummy it hurts.
After that, though, your focus was on lynching someone because of their role (not because they are scum), then acting like you wanted to lynch someone but not really and throwing a WoT full of defense once called on it. Now you want me, who called you out, dead and go so far as to completely mangle and misread (or flat out lie about) the entire history of my time in this game in order to do it.
The only good sign you have is the attack on Zai. However, Zai wasn't hard to spot once you started watching him and he wasn't scum, so he makes a wonderful target for scum to hunt, especially since his actions explain why you wanted him so badly..unlike..say.. flinging the hammer on someone you believe was town.
So thank you for reminding me about you, Mr.Person. Between your play in Day 2 and your reaction to getting struck at, which involves WoTs defending yourself and crap attempts to try to get your attacker lynched, I now believe you will suit well as the next lynch.
Post by: webadict on November 19, 2009, 11:53:41 pm
If a player was converted by Leafsnail, do they now have Leafsnail's role?
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 19, 2009, 11:56:00 pm
They cannot repeat the REPLACE action
They gain his one-shot revive if it was not used by Leafsnail originally.
Post by: webadict on November 19, 2009, 11:59:26 pm
They keep their old roleMan, screw you.
They cannot repeat the REPLACE action
They gain his one-shot revive if it was not used by Leafsnail originally.
I'm calling for a Massclaim, because this is ridiculous.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 20, 2009, 12:05:40 am
Post by: webadict on November 20, 2009, 12:07:35 am
Unsolicited qualifier: The revive doesn't work if he's lynched.Better, but we're getting nowhere and this is the only way I can think to make everything make more sense.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 20, 2009, 12:11:32 am
I am the Bastard Mod. I choose what rule is in effect from a list, but I have no clue what the effect will be. I was kind of hoping Kill Webadict Now would kill Webadict now, and Try Again would make the day restart if someone is lynched.
Post by: webadict on November 20, 2009, 12:18:03 am
Ah, this is annoying. I have no idea what is going on, so I'll take the nearest advice and roleclaim.... You have a list?
I am the Bastard Mod. I choose what rule is in effect from a list, but I have no clue what the effect will be. I was kind of hoping Kill Webadict Now would kill Webadict now, and Try Again would make the day restart if someone is lynched.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 20, 2009, 12:18:19 am
Post by: Cheeetar on November 20, 2009, 12:20:39 am
"
-list
-it's a rule
-and more
"
or if I have to paraphrase or something. Panda: If I had a role that was the Bastard Mod and had a list in my role PM, would I be allowed to post the items in this list were it not a direct quote, and instead a copy paste in quotation marks?
Post by: dakarian on November 20, 2009, 12:27:24 am
That explains a good deal and it means those things actually DO have meaning.
Post by: webadict on November 20, 2009, 12:31:15 am
Post by: SirBayer on November 20, 2009, 12:56:38 am
I apologize for not being more useful, but it's bedtime. One last thing before I go, I'll finish my roleclaim properly, though I've practically already done so. I'm a Nuclear Rocket Surgeon, so I can SCIENCE the crap out of people. If they're poisoned, they won't die; if they're attacked, they won't die. If, however, neither of those are true, they are roleblocked from radiation poisoning the next day. So it's a bit of a negative if I miss.
Also - Webby, what do you intend to accomplish with this mass claim? Do we really want people knowing who's capable of powerful things?
Post by: dakarian on November 20, 2009, 01:06:45 am
1. Scum can claim their real role without harm in most cases.
2. The one that got switched gets to keep their role and only get a one-shot anti nightkill which only helps if we have a vig floating around.
3. Scum learning who the good roles are will know who to shoot for. Even knowing some of the not-so-good ones will be enough to focus fire on the others who may have good ones.
I'd rather have you scumhunting than rolefising personally. (yes, it's been noted)
I'll stick to just getting Mr.Person lynched.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 20, 2009, 04:11:41 am
I don't think your role does anything, Cheeetar. I'm sure it's a lot of WIFOM involved.
That's what I think, but I'm still hoping that some of them do something.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 20, 2009, 04:14:25 am
"- Kill Webadict Now
- Shenanigans
- Carelessness
- Inattentiveness
- Distractedness
- Forgetfulness
- Can't Touch This
- Laziness
- "And then Mod was a Bastard."
- Spartacus
- OUTRIGHT SHAMELESS LIES
- Ozymandias
- Try Again
- Bad Ideas"
So, what do you guys think I should activate next?
Post by: Org on November 20, 2009, 06:29:20 am
Post by: ToonyMan on November 20, 2009, 06:55:14 am
There's four scum right? Or five?
Alright, there's 14/19 people alive with 5(?) mafia. Or was it 4? I need to go soon.
I don't think MC is a good idea unless we are in danger.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 20, 2009, 06:55:52 am
Post by: ToonyMan on November 20, 2009, 07:03:02 am
28.5% are mafia.
4/14
4/12 - Mislynch then night-kill.
4/10 - Mslynch then night-kill.
4/8 - Mislynch then night-kill.
4/6 - Mslynch then night-kill.
4/4 - Lose.
Standarly, we can mislynch four times before losing. With a night-kill. We should not have a mass-claim now. No no no.
Gotta go!
Post by: Cheeetar on November 20, 2009, 08:56:18 am
Post by: dakarian on November 20, 2009, 09:05:49 am
Otherwise, mind if we get back to lynching?
And Mr.Person, I'm very VERY close to being done with you, but I'm not DONE yet. I want to hear your rebuttal before I get the town involved.
@Meph
So are you really after Toonyman or do you just want him to stop bugging you?
Post by: webadict on November 20, 2009, 10:59:05 am
Not sure how a mass claim would help us.Uh huh. And I'm sure you're not at all worried about who knows what, are you? It'd be a real shame.
1. Scum can claim their real role without harm in most cases.
2. The one that got switched gets to keep their role and only get a one-shot anti nightkill which only helps if we have a vig floating around.
3. Scum learning who the good roles are will know who to shoot for. Even knowing some of the not-so-good ones will be enough to focus fire on the others who may have good ones.
I'd rather have you scumhunting than rolefising personally. (yes, it's been noted)
I'll stick to just getting Mr.Person lynched.
4/14 are mafia. (or should be =P)You'd think so, but we don't really KNOW, now do we? Seeing as how Leafsnail had a Revive, who knows what else we really have? Obviously, there's a balance, so whichever roles aren't balanced are obviously fake.
28.5% are mafia.
4/14
4/12 - Mislynch then night-kill.
4/10 - Mslynch then night-kill.
4/8 - Mislynch then night-kill.
4/6 - Mslynch then night-kill.
4/4 - Lose.
Standarly, we can mislynch four times before losing. With a night-kill. We should not have a mass-claim now. No no no.
Gotta go!
I think I'd be able to tell which ones aren't balanced. It's sorta like a puzzle. I'd rather everyone knew everything than the mafia knew a little more than us.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 20, 2009, 11:34:58 am
@Meph
So are you really after Toonyman or do you just want him to stop bugging you?
I'll need to dig around a bit more, but I'm still suspicious of him at this point. As always with Toony, it's hard to tell when he's scum and when he's town with really bad aim, since he acts the same.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 20, 2009, 12:40:34 pm
I'm calling for a Massclaim, because this is ridiculous.calling for the town to hand you an itemized prioritized list of targets?
Post by: webadict on November 20, 2009, 02:07:15 pm
You caught me! That's what I'm doing. Duh, was it that easy?I'm calling for a Massclaim, because this is ridiculous.calling for the town to hand you an itemized prioritized list of targets?
Or, perhaps, they've already got targets from those that have already claimed (Or they choose not to kill them, because they're not important to kill). How about, instead of being a complete and utter moron, you actually start thinking about what you're saying, doing, and trying to accomplish, so that you may help the town, instead of simply tunneling on a town.
How about one of these questions: "Why didn't Org Roleblock tonight?"
"Who would possibly be Leafsnail's target?"
"Why do you think I'm scum?"
"Who else do you believe is scum?"
My God, you're useless.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 20, 2009, 02:34:11 pm
4/14 are mafia. (or should be =P)You'd think so, but we don't really KNOW, now do we? Seeing as how Leafsnail had a Revive, who knows what else we really have? Obviously, there's a balance, so whichever roles aren't balanced are obviously fake.
28.5% are mafia.
4/14
4/12 - Mislynch then night-kill.
4/10 - Mslynch then night-kill.
4/8 - Mislynch then night-kill.
4/6 - Mslynch then night-kill.
4/4 - Lose.
Standarly, we can mislynch four times before losing. With a night-kill. We should not have a mass-claim now. No no no.
Gotta go!
I think I'd be able to tell which ones aren't balanced. It's sorta like a puzzle. I'd rather everyone knew everything than the mafia knew a little more than us.
I said standarly.
>_>
Org not role-blocking did peek my interest, but he was probably doing that to be an ass to Town.
i.e. MSPA Mafia
@Meph:
I'll counter any argument you make of me.
Post by: dakarian on November 20, 2009, 02:37:30 pm
He has a point though. It's too early to massclaim and, even with the few that did claim, there's still a wide list of folks for the mafia to try to kill. For now, we do best letting power roles do what they do. They'll come out when they need to.
Besides, as I remembered, you don't like us just following you lock step and your suggestion means we do just that as you try to find the 'fake claims'.
Has everyone been acting so town that you can't find anyone that you want to go after?
Post by: webadict on November 20, 2009, 02:38:54 pm
You HATE being argued with it seems.But then whatever would I do with my ultimate fakeclaim-destroying power?
He has a point though. It's too early to massclaim and, even with the few that did claim, there's still a wide list of folks for the mafia to try to kill. For now, we do best letting power roles do what they do. They'll come out when they need to.
Besides, as I remembered, you don't like us just following you lock step and your suggestion means we do just that as you try to find the 'fake claims'.
Has everyone been acting so town that you can't find anyone that you want to go after?
Post by: dakarian on November 20, 2009, 02:47:39 pm
If you want, you could always check out Meph who's already claimed or anyone else if we send them to L-1 then find a claim that keeps us from lynching them.
Post by: webadict on November 20, 2009, 03:09:46 pm
Save it until lylo, since the mafia don't seem afraid of it or else they'd kill you already while you were still blocked.... Did you just tell me to save my power until lylo?
If you want, you could always check out Meph who's already claimed or anyone else if we send them to L-1 then find a claim that keeps us from lynching them.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 20, 2009, 03:15:19 pm
Save it until lylo, since the mafia don't seem afraid of it or else they'd kill you already while you were still blocked.... Did you just tell me to save my power until lylo?
If you want, you could always check out Meph who's already claimed or anyone else if we send them to L-1 then find a claim that keeps us from lynching them.
I thought we went over this.
Post by: dakarian on November 20, 2009, 03:21:52 pm
My better suggestion is the other: check on someone who claims when we scumhunt them.
Beats the pants off of "tell the scum who the strongest roles are and hope you spot one that is both highly scummy AND lying"
Post by: webadict on November 20, 2009, 03:24:30 pm
You can fire it just before lylo. If you're paranoid, we could MC just before then if you really want to go there.Oh no. See, that's not my problem. Why should I save it for lylo instead of, say, tomorrow?
My better suggestion is the other: check on someone who claims when we scumhunt them.
Beats the pants off of "tell the scum who the strongest roles are and hope you spot one that is both highly scummy AND lying"
Post by: dakarian on November 20, 2009, 03:35:55 pm
My better suggestion is the other: check on someone who claims when we scumhunt them.
Post by: SirBayer on November 20, 2009, 05:28:13 pm
Regarding Meph and Dak, there are a few possibilities.
IF Meph is Scum: Dak is completely unpredictable still. That's completely useless. He could be either protecting a buddy or trying to implicate a townie in the long run. He could even be buddying with Dak.
IF Meph is Town: Dak is almost certainly town as well. Meph could be a wrong-answer variant or whatever the hell, but it's far less likely.
We can confirm two separate players in one move if you'll just acknowledge that I am, in fact, Chuck Norris, the role. I mean... I guess I could still be scum, but someone entirely different can confirm that, if there's a cop. Etc., etc.
I could also kill Meph, but that seems less useful.
Post by: Vector on November 20, 2009, 05:35:33 pm
I'm not sure I agree, Webby.
I apologize for not being more useful, but it's bedtime. One last thing before I go, I'll finish my roleclaim properly, though I've practically already done so. I'm a Nuclear Rocket Surgeon, so I can SCIENCE the crap out of people. If they're poisoned, they won't die; if they're attacked, they won't die. If, however, neither of those are true, they are roleblocked from radiation poisoning the next day. So it's a bit of a negative if I miss.
So, guys, I'll confess I haven't been doing much scumhunting, but I've had a thought. (Amazing!)
Regarding Meph and Dak, there are a few possibilities.
IF Meph is Scum: Dak is completely unpredictable still. That's completely useless. He could be either protecting a buddy or trying to implicate a townie in the long run. He could even be buddying with Dak.
IF Meph is Town: Dak is almost certainly town as well. Meph could be a wrong-answer variant or whatever the hell, but it's far less likely.
We can confirm two separate players in one move if you'll just acknowledge that I am, in fact, Chuck Norris, the role. I mean... I guess I could still be scum, but someone entirely different can confirm that, if there's a cop. Etc., etc.
I could also kill Meph, but that seems less useful.
Good lord, you're such a moron.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 20, 2009, 05:39:12 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 20, 2009, 05:51:11 pm
Paraphrasing SirBayer..."I am Nuclear Rocket Surgeon" (claimed day 1 if I recall? survives two nights with doc claim) sets up a confirm/lynch chain? "I am Chuck Norris" "Investigate me"
y'know, SirBayer, I do still feel like others are still scummy, but you -in one post- reveal that you're lying about your role, that one guy flipping town "makes another likely town" and ask for a cop to confirm you.
Bayer, I'm modkilling you in all my games the next time I see "Chuck Norris" mentioned by you anywhere....
Post by: Mephansteras on November 20, 2009, 05:56:18 pm
Really, SirBayer? Lying about your role? Not wise. Not wise at all. Now it's hard for us to tell what you're doing, but Lynch All Liars is actually a pretty good policy for catching scum. Town has little incentive to lie, but scum has quite a lot.
Post by: dakarian on November 20, 2009, 05:58:36 pm
If you dislike the "Chuck Noris" bit, don't blame him.
In fact, just about all of the behavior in KWN:DE can be put on my feet.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 20, 2009, 06:02:53 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 20, 2009, 06:16:09 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 20, 2009, 06:44:28 pm
Post by: webadict on November 20, 2009, 07:33:52 pm
Oh no, you've started digging, so you're going to keep talking and slipping down that little slope of ice you're on. I don't want quotes from you, I want WORDS!
My better suggestion is the other: check on someone who claims when we scumhunt them.
Please answer using complete logical sense the question I had previously requested you answer. This is starting to get interesting!
So, guys, I'll confess I haven't been doing much scumhunting, but I've had a thought. (Amazing!)Go suck a lemon.
Regarding Meph and Dak, there are a few possibilities.
IF Meph is Scum: Dak is completely unpredictable still. That's completely useless. He could be either protecting a buddy or trying to implicate a townie in the long run. He could even be buddying with Dak.
IF Meph is Town: Dak is almost certainly town as well. Meph could be a wrong-answer variant or whatever the hell, but it's far less likely.
We can confirm two separate players in one move if you'll just acknowledge that I am, in fact, Chuck Norris, the role. I mean... I guess I could still be scum, but someone entirely different can confirm that, if there's a cop. Etc., etc.
I could also kill Meph, but that seems less useful.
Post by: dakarian on November 20, 2009, 07:51:57 pm
But if you want to Mass Claim and check, you're better off waiting till it's close to lylo.
Post by: webadict on November 20, 2009, 08:05:42 pm
That WAS my answer. You ask why I feel it's better to use it on lylo than tomorrow when I DON'T. I'd rather you use it on someone who claims during our debates.
But if you want to Mass Claim and check, you're better off waiting till it's close to lylo.
Save it until lylo, since the mafia don't seem afraid of it or else they'd kill you already while you were still blocked.INCONSISTANCY!
If you want, you could always check out Meph who's already claimed or anyone else if we send them to L-1 then find a claim that keeps us from lynching them.
Post by: Neruz on November 20, 2009, 08:11:10 pm
EXUBERANCE!That WAS my answer. You ask why I feel it's better to use it on lylo than tomorrow when I DON'T. I'd rather you use it on someone who claims during our debates.
But if you want to Mass Claim and check, you're better off waiting till it's close to lylo.Save it until lylo, since the mafia don't seem afraid of it or else they'd kill you already while you were still blocked.INCONSISTANCY!
If you want, you could always check out Meph who's already claimed or anyone else if we send them to L-1 then find a claim that keeps us from lynching them.
Post by: webadict on November 20, 2009, 08:15:58 pm
Aren't you dead?EXUBERANCE!That WAS my answer. You ask why I feel it's better to use it on lylo than tomorrow when I DON'T. I'd rather you use it on someone who claims during our debates.
But if you want to Mass Claim and check, you're better off waiting till it's close to lylo.Save it until lylo, since the mafia don't seem afraid of it or else they'd kill you already while you were still blocked.INCONSISTANCY!
If you want, you could always check out Meph who's already claimed or anyone else if we send them to L-1 then find a claim that keeps us from lynching them.
Post by: Neruz on November 20, 2009, 08:22:42 pm
Yes. I appear to be in the wrong thread.Aren't you dead?EXUBERANCE!That WAS my answer. You ask why I feel it's better to use it on lylo than tomorrow when I DON'T. I'd rather you use it on someone who claims during our debates.
But if you want to Mass Claim and check, you're better off waiting till it's close to lylo.Save it until lylo, since the mafia don't seem afraid of it or else they'd kill you already while you were still blocked.INCONSISTANCY!
If you want, you could always check out Meph who's already claimed or anyone else if we send them to L-1 then find a claim that keeps us from lynching them.
Post by: webadict on November 20, 2009, 08:56:04 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 20, 2009, 09:09:11 pm
You HATE being argued with it seems.But then whatever would I do with my ultimate fakeclaim-destroying power?
He has a point though. It's too early to massclaim and, even with the few that did claim, there's still a wide list of folks for the mafia to try to kill. For now, we do best letting power roles do what they do. They'll come out when they need to.
Besides, as I remembered, you don't like us just following you lock step and your suggestion means we do just that as you try to find the 'fake claims'.
Has everyone been acting so town that you can't find anyone that you want to go after?
Quote
Save it until lylo, since the mafia don't seem afraid of it or else they'd kill you already while you were still blocked.
If you want, you could always check out Meph who's already claimed or anyone else if we send them to L-1 then find a claim that keeps us from lynching them.
You remember the whole thing started when you wanted us to Mass Claim? You wanted to use it to test for fake claims. I said it was too early.
Then you asked when you can do what you wanted to do. I said 'lylo'. The REASON: that's when it's best to Mass Claim.
You say 'so you want me to use my power in lylo?'
I say 'just before lylo' (since it's a night role) BUT I'd RATHER you use just use the thing on someone that claimed due to our attacks (as opposed to MC then you poke at them).
Still inconsistent?
Post by: webadict on November 20, 2009, 09:28:41 pm
Yeah. Still. Someone's running around in ciiiiiiiirclllllllles.You HATE being argued with it seems.But then whatever would I do with my ultimate fakeclaim-destroying power?
He has a point though. It's too early to massclaim and, even with the few that did claim, there's still a wide list of folks for the mafia to try to kill. For now, we do best letting power roles do what they do. They'll come out when they need to.
Besides, as I remembered, you don't like us just following you lock step and your suggestion means we do just that as you try to find the 'fake claims'.
Has everyone been acting so town that you can't find anyone that you want to go after?QuoteSave it until lylo, since the mafia don't seem afraid of it or else they'd kill you already while you were still blocked.
If you want, you could always check out Meph who's already claimed or anyone else if we send them to L-1 then find a claim that keeps us from lynching them.
You remember the whole thing started when you wanted us to Mass Claim? You wanted to use it to test for fake claims. I said it was too early.
Then you asked when you can do what you wanted to do. I said 'lylo'. The REASON: that's when it's best to Mass Claim.
You say 'so you want me to use my power in lylo?'
I say 'just before lylo' (since it's a night role) BUT I'd RATHER you use just use the thing on someone that claimed due to our attacks (as opposed to MC then you poke at them).
Still inconsistent?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 20, 2009, 09:40:35 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 20, 2009, 09:50:15 pm
Now, still waiting on Mr.Person to come in.
Post by: webadict on November 20, 2009, 10:05:02 pm
I don't think it's inconsistent. Saying something is something does not make something something.It is. There's a great big GLARING hole in his argument the size of Texas. The fact no one sees it is because no one's paying attention.
I want him to keep talking, because he'll just keep slipping up.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 20, 2009, 10:07:05 pm
You think you can just have SirBayer pull one of those sacrifices? HAHAHAHAH.
No.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 20, 2009, 10:08:24 pm
Post by: webadict on November 20, 2009, 10:19:37 pm
Hahah, scum....scum scum scum.I'm not sure if you're talking to me or someone else...
You think you can just have SirBayer pull one of those sacrifices? HAHAHAHAH.
No.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 20, 2009, 10:21:53 pm
You're not scum.
Post by: webadict on November 20, 2009, 10:32:25 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 20, 2009, 10:33:32 pm
I don't think it's inconsistent. Saying something is something does not make something something.It is. There's a great big GLARING hole in his argument the size of Texas. The fact no one sees it is because no one's paying attention.
I want him to keep talking, because he'll just keep slipping up.
Any more questions then?
Fakeedit:
No. Instead I'll keep talking when you give me more questions.
Post by: webadict on November 20, 2009, 10:39:00 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 20, 2009, 10:44:33 pm
After that, I'll be after Rash.
From there, it'll be reading others. Meph, you and Toony are the current folks I'm reading, which is partially why I'm glad you're fighting me now.
We also have the other batch load of folks.. though the thought of a widescan on 57 pages (83- the 26 I already widescanned) makes me cry.
Post by: webadict on November 20, 2009, 10:48:44 pm
Mr.Person is close to being sure enough to @everyoneYou're after Meph? Why?
After that, I'll be after Rash.
From there, it'll be reading others. Meph, you and Toony are the current folks I'm reading, which is partially why I'm glad you're fighting me now.
We also have the other batch load of folks.. though the thought of a widescan on 57 pages (83- the 26 I already widescanned) makes me cry.
Post by: dakarian on November 20, 2009, 10:57:11 pm
His claim is solid but it's also very easy (similar to a scum claiming cop and calling everyone they scan 'town') so I'm placing him on 'watch and learn'. I'll be able to mix the impressions of this day with the scans of Day 2 and 1 and get something interesting.
Post by: webadict on November 20, 2009, 11:26:41 pm
A little fuzzy, but I remember my last scan on him turned out rather Meh, which isn't good to have from a scan (it's somewhere in Day 2 so I'll be able to remind myself once I focus on him).I think it's odd that he mentions a knife today as opposed to yesterday, where he says that only that you are town.
His claim is solid but it's also very easy (similar to a scum claiming cop and calling everyone they scan 'town') so I'm placing him on 'watch and learn'. I'll be able to mix the impressions of this day with the scans of Day 2 and 1 and get something interesting.
Post by: dakarian on November 20, 2009, 11:47:35 pm
Though considering HOW ExKirby died, it's not exactly hard to claim.
That's why he's wait and see. The role is like a weak Forensics so it's possible, but right now it's pretty easy to fakeclaim it. Unless you want to fire a role check at him, I'm thinking he'll need to be caught with good old scumhunting tactics.
Post by: webadict on November 21, 2009, 12:15:49 am
I think he said earlier that "he was killed by the Lord of Chaos".Waste.
Though considering HOW ExKirby died, it's not exactly hard to claim.
That's why he's wait and see. The role is like a weak Forensics so it's possible, but right now it's pretty easy to fakeclaim it. Unless you want to fire a role check at him, I'm thinking he'll need to be caught with good old scumhunting tactics.
Post by: dakarian on November 21, 2009, 01:09:34 am
Btw @mod Mr.Person needs a prod, He's been away from all his games though :/
Post by: Org on November 21, 2009, 08:44:28 am
A MC? Usually webadict never calls for a MC.They keep their old roleMan, screw you.
They cannot repeat the REPLACE action
They gain his one-shot revive if it was not used by Leafsnail originally.
I'm calling for a Massclaim, because this is ridiculous.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 21, 2009, 09:01:21 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 21, 2009, 09:17:33 am
Very well then.
Btw @mod Mr.Person needs a prod, He's been away from all his games though :/
Prod sent in response to this a while ago, just for reference.
Sleeping now.
Post by: webadict on November 21, 2009, 09:46:12 am
Webadict. I'm pretty sure for some reason I found him scum earlier, and calling for a MC early is fishy.WOW. Go shoot yourself.
Or give some real reasons.
Yeah, I usually don't. But in a set-up like this, it's more helpful to do that.A MC? Usually webadict never calls for a MC.They keep their old roleMan, screw you.
They cannot repeat the REPLACE action
They gain his one-shot revive if it was not used by Leafsnail originally.
I'm calling for a Massclaim, because this is ridiculous.
But, dakarian is afraid that I'll catch him, so he's hiding behind his little excuse. There's no point in hiding behind power roles because, get this, we can win WITHOUT THEM! The point of the game is to LYNCH the Mafia, not out-PR them.
dakarian is ridiculously suspicious, and I'm glad there's enough people not here to not actually debate it.
Post by: dakarian on November 21, 2009, 10:27:16 am
Very well then. You can test me, since I'm already out.
Evangalist of the Cult of Chaos
I'm not a good evangalist, so I can't recruit, but I can at least sow chaos.
Basically a one-shot day vig that's VERY visible. It also had to be used before the end of Day 3.
There. You can check that if you like.
Post by: webadict on November 21, 2009, 10:51:49 am
I'm glad you you were looking for it though.
Post by: dakarian on November 21, 2009, 11:17:50 am
Meanwhile
Since Mr.Person needs to either return here or be replaced, I'll turn to another until he returns.
Unvote Mr.Person
Vote Rash
Come on out Rash, or is this another person that needs a prodding?
Post by: Rashilul on November 21, 2009, 11:47:33 am
what happened is i have a flu that im totally definitely sick with
now i have to read man anyway things are cool here
totally cool
flu is still awesome no problems with it or anything like just really really awesome
Post by: Rashilul on November 21, 2009, 11:59:47 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 21, 2009, 01:57:06 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 21, 2009, 02:04:44 pm
Post by: webadict on November 21, 2009, 04:56:37 pm
Watch. Webadict is a Devil's Advocate or equivalent. He's going to get all our roles from us, then once he has them, send them all to Pandar to kill.... Yeah. Sure. Keep having delusions then. I don't even care about your role NAME. All I want is what you can do, if you're paying attention, you stupid moron. Go ahead, tell me a fake name. It doesn't matter. As long as the role does what it does, then I don't CARE, do I?
Well, when you feel content enough to stop trying to hide it please inform the rest of the class.So you admit there's a gaping hole?
Meanwhile
Since Mr.Person needs to either return here or be replaced, I'll turn to another until he returns.
Unvote Mr.Person
Vote Rash
Come on out Rash, or is this another person that needs a prodding?
Post by: dakarian on November 21, 2009, 05:14:28 pm
So, are you trying to let us kill each other, scum?
@web
Ill answer your questions and speak about your accusations. Until you GIVE them, there's not much for me to say. If there is a hole, I'll talk to you about it when you bring it up. Otherwise, I'll get back to my work.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 21, 2009, 05:30:14 pm
Dakarian [3]: Webadict, Rashilul, ToonyMan
ToonyMan [1]: Eduren
Webadict [2]: Cheeetar, RedWarrior0
Rashilul [3]: Mr.Person, Dakarian
SirBayer [3]: CobaltKobold, Mephansteras, Vector
SHOULD be totally accurate.
Also, keep in mind votecounts are generally only by request.... At least usually.
(fixed)
Post by: Vector on November 21, 2009, 05:32:40 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 21, 2009, 05:37:02 pm
Post by: Rashilul on November 21, 2009, 05:47:27 pm
Rash, even without looking at my notes I remember how passive and meh you've been all game. You vote like you dont care who dies so long as you don't, and you aren't afk but lurking judging from the fact that you were silent until I voted for you.
So, are you trying to let us kill each other, scum?
@web
Ill answer your questions and speak about your accusations. Until you GIVE them, there's not much for me to say. If there is a hole, I'll talk to you about it when you bring it up. Otherwise, I'll get back to my work.
man get over yourself
Post by: webadict on November 21, 2009, 06:07:57 pm
Post by: webadict on November 21, 2009, 06:10:49 pm
Rash, even without looking at my notes I remember how passive and meh you've been all game. You vote like you dont care who dies so long as you don't, and you aren't afk but lurking judging from the fact that you were silent until I voted for you.I'll give you a hint:
So, are you trying to let us kill each other, scum?
@web
Ill answer your questions and speak about your accusations. Until you GIVE them, there's not much for me to say. If there is a hole, I'll talk to you about it when you bring it up. Otherwise, I'll get back to my work.
Save it until lylo, since the mafia don't seem afraid of it or else they'd kill you already while you were still blocked.It's somewhere in here.
If you want, you could always check out Meph who's already claimed or anyone else if we send them to L-1 then find a claim that keeps us from lynching them.
Post by: SirBayer on November 21, 2009, 06:12:31 pm
Lemme catch up.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 21, 2009, 06:17:44 pm
How about the better question of why is everyone at 1 vote?
SHUT UP I FIXED THAT ALREADY.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 21, 2009, 06:18:24 pm
Post by: Vector on November 21, 2009, 06:19:12 pm
Whoops! Sorry about the inconsistent post, guys, that was supposed to be in BYOR Mafia Panda. Dunno how that missed...
Lemme catch up.
I don't... I don't even...
THIS IS BYOR MAFIA PANDA.
Post by: webadict on November 21, 2009, 06:19:22 pm
Rashilul [3]: Vector, Mr.Person, DakarianThird vote much?
Post by: Vector on November 21, 2009, 06:20:33 pm
Rashilul [3]: Vector, Mr.Person, DakarianThird vote much?
No, because I am not in fact voting both Bayer and Rashilul.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 21, 2009, 06:21:41 pm
MY BAD AGAIN.
Post by: webadict on November 21, 2009, 06:22:32 pm
Ahhh, and I wanted to show him up...Rashilul [3]: Vector, Mr.Person, DakarianThird vote much?
No, because I am not in fact voting both Bayer and Rashilul.
Post by: SirBayer on November 21, 2009, 06:26:57 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on November 21, 2009, 06:54:01 pm
Post by: webadict on November 21, 2009, 07:48:22 pm
Hey Webadict, could you please offer up an explanation of why you called for a MC despite the game going for a while and roles not being related to alignment?No, roles aren't quite related to alignment. But balance is. You find the right balance, and that isn't possible for some people.
Plus, you can find what actions add up, and what actions do not.
Like dakarian not finding the dreaded hole. He's still looking for it, mind you, but can't find it and so refuses to post until he can get a proper inquire into it, or has an adequate way to turn this whole congregation onto me or someone else.
And no, likely dakarian was probably the target of Leafsnail.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 21, 2009, 07:56:27 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on November 21, 2009, 08:26:48 pm
Post by: Org on November 21, 2009, 08:37:00 pm
Whoops! Sorry about the inconsistent post, guys, that was supposed to be in BYOR Mafia Panda. Dunno how that missed...Lol?
Lemme catch up.
Post by: webadict on November 21, 2009, 09:28:25 pm
Sorry, what? I feel like I've missed alot.You tend to do that a lot, don't you?
I'm saying who would be the best target for the mafia to convert? Obviously someone who is good, but not someone that would attract a lot of attention. Because of that, I'd pick either dakarian, Mephansteras, or Vector.
I would have considered myself, has I not claimed a role that is obviously not useful for the mafia, and since the mafia knows I'm telling the truth (The town has no reason to lie), they will instead try to go for someone good but not obvious. I'm also the first to be blocked, investigated AND protected.
Dakarian is first up on the list, because he hardly ever been mafia, and so is harder to find scumtells for. He's very good at the game and so would be a great asset. It's not the only solution, but it's the most likely.
However, Mephansteras would be the second choice. He has been mafia, and tends to show it in a peculiar way, but I'm sure he's bright enough to change that.
And, third, I'd pick Vector. He's a fine mafia player, so he'd definitely do well as mafia.
dakarian has been acting mighty suspicious, and I'm not sure why he didn't use his Daykill the first Day, near the end of the Day, or merely say upfront he had it. However, the second Day, he suddenly reveals he has it and kills someone, which seems mighty suspicious given the previous Day. In fact, if I were him and suspicious of me, I'd admit pull an Alexhans and kill me, too. This means he wasn't suspicious enough of me to kill me Day One, and was too cautious to kill me Day Two, despite him still pretending to be suspicious of me (See his list), and including the fact that I'm fairly hard to read. Sure, this in itself isn't too suspicious, but it's noteworthy.
And his glaring hole? Oh, I'm really waiting for him to point it out for me! It's sitting right in front of him. He's making an assumption only a mafia member would make, since he's clearly not a terrible player.
I'd also like to note his lack of scumhunting.
As for Mephansteras? He's been playing a similar game, so if he's mafia, he started out as such. It makes sense, since he "confirmed" dakarian as a town (Which could be fooled using Leafsnail's power?) He'd also be able to make the decisive conversion of the best player in which to convert. He's also putting up a good front to lynch himself. Perhaps we should take it?
And Vector. I'm not so sure about Vector. I'd probably consider something else, not because he doesn't play a good game as scum, but because he isn't looking in the right direction or the people he would look to for guidance are misleading. Either way, I'd skip him unless the other two started as mafia, which would be a bad combination.
Starting to make sense, or am I making you think too hard for your poor mind?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 21, 2009, 10:24:06 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 21, 2009, 10:41:45 pm
That...is a damn good theory I have to say.
To it, there's only so much I can say except to explain a few things:
1. I didn't suspect you Day 1, web. I fought with you and got a read on you, but had nothing to suspect you with so I left you be. I noticed the bandwagons were half because of the fight between you and I and half because they wanted to punish you for your additude. I went meh then and I do Meh now.
After that I left you on 'read now, decide later' further helped by the 'kill webadict now' issue. You're ALWAYS on that list, even from back in BM1 (though it was a stronger FOS then).
so no, I was never after you. Fight with you yes. Watch you, yes. Want you dead, no.
As for why I didn't shoot day 1: we tend to hit a townie day 1 and I wanted my shot to have a chance at a scum. I could've waited for day 3 (the power dies after day 3) but I worried I'd be a NK target so I compromised at Day 2, when there was a chance at a genuine hit. Didn't work but meh, that's the reasoning.
The hole? Havn't looked and would rather scan someone else for their holes then try to cover my own. I'll deal with it when it shows up. I know you're no fool so I bet you have something real against me and, thus, I'm not going "OMG there's no hole!!!!" However, I won't scan to find it so there you go.
As for the lack of scumhunting....WHAT!?
What was I doing with Mr.Person through most of Day 3, lovemaking!? Only reason why I stopped is because he's gone AWOL before I can reach @everyone with him.
In any case, I can see the argument for Convertscum-dakarian. Beyond explaining why I did what I did the most I can do is hunt while I can.
Post by: Neruz on November 21, 2009, 10:47:20 pm
What was I doing with Mr.Person through most of Day 3, lovemaking!?
I KNEW IT!
Post by: dakarian on November 21, 2009, 10:55:15 pm
What was I doing with Mr.Person through most of Day 3, lovemaking!?
I KNEW IT!
If someone's not going to quote that, I will.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 21, 2009, 10:57:08 pm
HE IS NOW UP FOR REPLACEMENT
Post by: Neruz on November 21, 2009, 10:58:03 pm
Post by: Org on November 21, 2009, 10:58:47 pm
MR.PERSON HAS BEEN FUCKED TO DEATHLol.
HE IS NOW UP FOR REPLACEMENT
Cheeetar, what reasons exactly are you agreeing on
Post by: webadict on November 21, 2009, 11:01:07 pm
And I know you didn't want me dead. You wanted to know if I were scum first. If you concluded, beyond a certain degree, I'm certain you'd shoot me. You yourself know the dangers in doubting yourself, so I'm not sure what it is exactly that you're not fully reading me on. You've been focusing hardcore on Mr.Person since Day 1.
I also forgot to mention a potential target for conversion, so radical that I only noticed it AFTER I posted. That would be ToonyMan. This clear lunatic would actually help them by being ridiculously clever at avoiding scumtells, by simply having very few of them and being a crazy person. He'd also throw around so much crap, you'd have to remove his presence to get a good few of what everyone else is saying. He's also crafty.
And I just remembered SHAD0Wdump is playing and he's yet to help after his whole three word things was taken away.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 21, 2009, 11:01:54 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 21, 2009, 11:03:32 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on November 21, 2009, 11:09:34 pm
And I just remembered SHAD0Wdump is playing and he's yet to help after his whole three word things was taken away.Hey look, I already said that.
I vote Shad0wdump. Still active lurking, random voting, hammering 'for the lulz'. Ask for a replacement, or be lynched. You can still ask for a replacement and play while the replacement is being found, by the way.
Cheeetar, what reasons exactly are you agreeing on
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: SHAD0Wdump on November 21, 2009, 11:11:39 pm
Post by: Org on November 21, 2009, 11:13:20 pm
WEBADICT. WHAT. IS. THAT. AM I NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO BE A MAFIA CONVERT.
Post by: webadict on November 21, 2009, 11:14:19 pm
Those reasons have their merit, but...... Seriously?
WEBADICT. WHAT. IS. THAT. AM I NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO BE A MAFIA CONVERT.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 21, 2009, 11:14:52 pm
Post by: Org on November 21, 2009, 11:15:27 pm
Webadict, if you don't see the obviousness of why Org should be converted, you should just kill yourself now.I know, rite?
No, Webadict. It was a joke.
Post by: webadict on November 21, 2009, 11:28:46 pm
Webadict, if you don't see the obviousness of why Org should be converted, you should just kill yourself now.... Why on earth would you want to have Org on your team? Especially if you're CHOOSING!
The only reason you'd do it is if you were especially crazy or knew he was a roleblocker.
Also, why didn't you block last Night, Org?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 21, 2009, 11:38:58 pm
Post by: webadict on November 21, 2009, 11:43:51 pm
Well Webadict, I guess your simple mind just dosen't understand.Or perhaps my complex mind simply skipped that conclusion for more logical ones.
Far more logical.
Post by: dakarian on November 22, 2009, 12:00:43 am
As for what I'm reading you for: I tend to put you on 'simmer'.. wait a few days and look at you as you do your thing, then put it all together to get an idea on you. You're a tricky read like that. It's more casual than you think, since I'm not like Pandar that goes "if you're alive Day 3 you're scum".
In any case, Ug, we ARE in a wash of lurkers when you realize this game is still meant to be bigger NOW than most games start off in.
Meanwhile. #$#_$ it, even my #1 choice, Rash, isn't near a bad to me as Mr.Person so I'm just going to stick with that and leave it like that.
Unvote Rash
Vote Person
@everyone
You saw the argument between me and him Day 3. Is my statement on him flawed or is he bad enoough to be the day 3 lynch?
Post by: webadict on November 22, 2009, 12:15:55 am
I was after Eduren half way through Day 1, Zai the other half. ExKirby first half of Day 2, and went MEH second half. I started on Mr.person near the end of Day 2 which leads us to here.My mistake. All the vote counts show you voting for him...
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 22, 2009, 12:54:08 am
Post by: webadict on November 22, 2009, 01:00:54 am
If nobody corrects me about it it becomes official. >:[Oh well.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 22, 2009, 01:36:01 am
I could see myself being converted as well, although that didn't happen this time around. But short of being killed or a PR wasting the night investigating me, I can't exactly prove that.
In any case Dak is safe, from my perspective, since his day-kill was day 2 (after the conversion) and he still showed up town. There is a slight chance that his role blocks people from knowing the alignment, but that seems unlikely.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 22, 2009, 03:27:47 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 22, 2009, 03:33:15 am
Replacement no longer needed.
Post by: dakarian on November 22, 2009, 03:43:26 am
Post by: Neruz on November 22, 2009, 04:06:55 am
Neruz, you're DEAD. You shouldn't even be posting here but I'm being lax about it because you know better than to post anything game-related and did I ever send you the dead chat link?
Actually i don't think you did to be honost.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 22, 2009, 05:33:16 am
My first vote was on you.. a randomvote. My first attack was on Eduren (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg852210#msg852210), NOT Neruz.
My point still stands, stop nitpicking. Yes, I know they're totally different, I don't know how I mixed the two up, I just know I sometimes do. Worry not about that, focus on the things I say, not the people involved.
Quote from: Dakarian
I attack him then wait for his response. He didn't write ANYTHING during the Web/Dakarian battle, so while I was waiting for Eduren to speak to me, I fought against Web. Once I was done with Web, I was STILL waiting for Eduren. Eventually Eduren speaks answering my original question and that's that.
Then what might this be?
I'm going off on Eduren based on his 'surprise' response to my prod on him, not for the vote and joke.
Since I don't want to comb your last five walls of text, I'm going to assume that this is basically what you are holding against me.
Here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg852197#msg852197) I make a joke about how you confused Meph with Pandar. You then (in my opinion) overreact (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg852210#msg852210). I am surprised at your reaction and then assume that you didn't get it (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg852227#msg852227). From the beginning it was a joke and even Toony recognized that (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg852217#msg852217).
Now, since you guys decided to post a handful of pages while I was away, I am going do some reading.
Quote from: Dakarian
By then everyone is crying about the ton of posts. I fuss at them, then reorganize with my Wide Scan. With that scan, I find Zai scummy (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg853809#msg853809) so I vote for him.
5th vote? Pandarsenic got the vote count wrong remember? I was 2nd! Proof? Read Pandarsenic's Vote count (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg853768#msg853768) one page before my vote, go up one page, and find my vote for Zai.. 2nd vote with you, Mr.Person, as the 1st.
Well, this is why accurate vote counts are so important. Ok, that changes things slightly. Thanks for clearing that up.
Quote from: Dakarian
Did nothing after? Bull (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg854037#msg854037)That's your reasoning post, considering it was less than 3 hours after your vote. You do nothing but talk about Zai and how scummy he was, so yes, that was covered already. I'm talking about after voting Zai, you did nothing. Good job on missing the point, btw.
Quote from: Dakarian
Day 2 the day JUST started and I did not just JUMP on ExKirby. I told everyone this instead:Alright, fine. There was some small talk about Leafsnail's role, THEN you jumped on ExKirby. That's just different enough to be the exact same thing.Meanwhile, Leaf dying is part of the role. Story wise, he's killed someone and is now looking EXACTLY like that person. Game wise, Leaf dies and someone just got converted.
There's a few benefits though from all this: Now that we know Leaf is scum, we can run a scan to find his partners on D1. Finding the convert will be impossible for the moment, but that will change later on.
Quote from: Dakarian
I did the same trick in Bay 12 mafia and found ChaoticJosh by it. It also mislynched Boksi but meh.
So I do my scan on Leaf (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg859241#msg859241) and found ExKirby.
By the way.QuoteYour original reason was WIFOMy (another reason I didn't bring it up, turns out that I should of, sue me), but ExKirby's response was scummy.
You said I had no reason.. now you say 'well he was scummy and I didn't say anything about possible WIFOM issues'.
To me, bad reasoning and no reasoning are the same thing. Think of when I say "no reasoning" to be shorthand for "no good reasoning".
Quote from: Dakarian
After that, my scans go to Rash as the next target and, like Eduren, I'm stuck with him saying nothing for a while. I question others while I wait, then end up realizing Rash went AWOL and demand a prod (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg862471#msg862471).
Now that Rash is in lurk mode-and you remember I don't lynch lurkers when I can prod/replace them-I turn to Neruz who by now has gone into superscumtell flinger mode.
Just like everything else you've said since day 2, you have not, in fact, "demanded" anything. You asked for a prod. You then pretty much say to Neruz "You think somebody else is scummy while I... think you're scummy. Show you're town or we'll see what happens."
Quote from: Dakarian
I fight with Neruz, get Kook vibes, get scum vibes, over and over. I pull off him and try to attack others. By then it's half way through day 2 which, as we've said, I've gone passive due to wariness. Votes for Meph go on, but he claims and I pull back due to the claim to hold him for later. Cheeetar gets a vote for hammering but that's not a strong tell. Eventually, Neruz shows up again near a lynch and I ask him to claim. He claims and, at first, it might be honest.. then he fumbles the claim which is as ugly as you can get. He gets lynched.
Fumbled? He made and quickly corrected a mistake. If you're going to get on everybody's case for making mistake and correcting them, you might as well lynch all the beginners now. (WIFOMingly, scum usually don't "make mistakes" on their claims, it's both stupid and attention-grabbing). Making a mistake on one's claim that they then correct on their own is not scummy in any way, shape, or form. That's just a mistake on the user's part. Hell, I've had to reask who I targetted on past nights in other games, it's not something to be ashamed of. It's also something both town and scum would do. Thus, null-tell. However, I usually find that the people who say null-tells are scummy are usually scum themselves. Strange thing, that.
Quote from: Dakarian
Day 3...
I did no wide scan day 3. When the day started, I threw a quick vote for Meph, then you rush at me and I've been on your case ever since.
Now that I know your accusations are due to not having a dang clue of what I've been doing since Day 1, I can finally finish my defense and get to a scan of you instead. Now, are you just a person that doesn't bother to check facts, or are you scum that was trapped trying to lynch me?
You're trying to box me into two choices. That's scumlogic. There's an obvious third option: I made a few mistakes (Seriously, Neruz and Eduren are NOT the same person, self).Your decision to use "A or B" style reasoning is plain old bullshit.
Alright, two things. First, a question. Second, something I just want to show you.
I don't know Eduren's meta. Meanwhile, Toony disagrees: he says that self preservation ISN'T part of his meta. That's why I'm on him. I'll take your idea that he DOES act like this normally into consideration, but I want to hear more from him before I leave him alone.
And yet you voted him because of his meta? So in other words, you voted him because TOONYMAN said so? Note that ToonyMan himself didn't actually vote Eduren, why did you take his word so seriously when he himself didn't?
1. I didn't suspect you Day 1, web. I fought with you and got a read on you, but had nothing to suspect you with so I left you be. I noticed the bandwagons were half because of the fight between you and I and half because they wanted to punish you for your additude. I went meh then and I do Meh now.
BUUUUULSHIT!
@Web
-snip-
I suspect you. Yes, I DO suspect you. As such I'll push you. I don't have a second vote so a FOS will do: since it's brought this result I'm glad I left it like that, since Eduren needs a LOT more pressure than you do. Do I want you dead? No, not yet. I make THAT time very very clear and you aren't there yet. Your emotions provide a very nice shield so it's hard to crack you, whether you are town or scum. I want to say you cracked but if so you won't be readable till later. For now, I'll need to be content where you are.
-snip-
Changing your reasoning is THE most scummiest thing possible.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 22, 2009, 05:53:56 am
(seriously, SHAD0Wdump is up for replacement, but Dak... please? Make it blue or orange or something. Or bold it. ANYTHING but the color of votes.)
Post by: dakarian on November 22, 2009, 06:28:27 am
Spoiler: Because I can (click to show/hide)
Meh and more Meh. You use your own terminology to explain very nasty accusations (1/3 of the second day = "The whole game", unliked reasons = "no reasons"), you backpeddle, laugh off your mistakes and turn one mistake from a month ago into THE BIGGEST SCUMTELL IN THE WORLD..even though there's little in action to support it.
Now, mind posting a reply about my scan on you, or are you going to just ignore that?
Post by: Mr.Person on November 22, 2009, 01:31:46 pm
Oh, and I think you have me voting Rash, so unvote Rash (or whoever) and vote Dakarian.
Quote from: Dakarian
Grats. You found a mistake that I had forgotten from nearly a month ago. I didn't know I had suspected Web in Day 1 during our initial fight and not just kept him on watch. You'll note though that soon after the fight was over and I had finished with Eduren I did NOT go after Web, even when the bandwagon started..even when others were using MY argument against him.
So, you tell me, how strong was that suspicion I had on Web on Day 1 when it never leads to a vote? How strong was it when, after I unvoted, I had to do a Wide Scan just to find a new target? How strong was it when, afterwards, everyone and their mother had reasons to kill Web and I was stuck on Zai the whole time?
It doesn't matter how strong the suspicion was, you stated you had NO suspicion for Webadict day one. Day one, you said you suspected Webadict. Even if it's only a little bit, you still just lied. Oh, you attack me for making mistakes, guess you aren't so high and mighty yourself, are you?
Quote from: Dakarian
Quote from: MrPerson-snip-Quote from: DakarianI attack him then wait for his response. He didn't write ANYTHING during the Web/Dakarian battle, so while I was waiting for Eduren to speak to me, I fought against Web. Once I was done with Web, I was STILL waiting for Eduren. Eventually Eduren speaks answering my original question and that's that.
Then what might this be?
That's what we're finding out.
Umm... what? You said Eduren didn't respond during the Web+Dak discussions. I quote a response Eduren gave early on in the Web+Dak discussions. YOU ignored his response. Sure, it might not of been very good, but he still responded. So your reponse is "That's what we're finding out"? That doesn't even make any sense, mate. I'm going to give you ONE more shot, so go ahead and try again.
Post by: dakarian on November 22, 2009, 02:10:48 pm
To bring it back on you:
You went after Zai for the same reasons I did: he looked so scummy it hurts.
After that, though, your focus was on lynching someone because of their role (not because they are scum), then acting like you wanted to lynch someone but not really and throwing a WoT full of defense once called on it. Now you want me, who called you out, dead and go so far as to completely mangle and misread (or flat out lie about) the entire history of my time in this game in order to do it.
In OTHER words, you havn't been scumhunting, except for a 3rd party. You spent all of Day 2 after someone because of their role and pretending to care about the scumminess of Neruz.
Let's add another one: You keep coming up with all these ideas on why my attack on ExKirby and Neruz was flawed but you sounded VERY content with them on Day 2 when they first came out. You were so sure you wanted to throw the hammer down yet one poke and you're 'unsure' about the whole matter and now I was clearly wrong about what I did there.
So when I call you out on it you start throwing every scum term in the book to get me killed. Only thing you're missing is the Buddy argument.
Most of that was written was in the text just below the spoiler. Yet instead of answering to them you ignore them 'as vomit'.
Now, are you going to stop dodging them or will you be insulting me until you're under the noose?
Post by: dakarian on November 22, 2009, 02:24:59 pm
It doesn't matter how strong the suspicion was, you stated you had NO suspicion for Webadict day one. Day one, you said you suspected Webadict. Even if it's only a little bit, you still just lied. Oh, you attack me for making mistakes, guess you aren't so high and mighty yourself, are you?
So the point is that we're both pots calling each other black?
Quote
Umm... what? You said Eduren didn't respond during the Web+Dak discussions. I quote a response Eduren gave early on in the Web+Dak discussions. YOU ignored his response. Sure, it might not of been very good, but he still responded. So your reponse is "That's what we're finding out"? That doesn't even make any sense, mate. I'm going to give you ONE more shot, so go ahead and try again.
Meh, thought you noticed that the argument we're having is mimicing the Eduren argument (right down to the web+me fight in between).
Now that I see it I realize you ...let me be blunt. You're an IDIOT.
The quote you quoted.. came after the Web+Dak argument ended. Go back.. Actually go back and read the thread (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg853240#msg853240). The last post of me and him arguing about the situation itself was a page ago. By the time Eduren posted, we had moved on and started talking about other people, including Shadow's 3 word restriction.
I ignored it? Go read the very post AFTER it..starting with *KICK*.
Then go to the next page to find my next post. I'm done with Eduren and now talking about the game as a whole. Soon after this, I run my Wide Scan and turn to Zai.
Ignore it? I stopped going after Eduren after it. Early into the Web/Dak battle? It was after it ended.
And this is all you have left? Does that mean you've stopped with all of the rest of your arguments? Great. Now you can go back to MY accusations, which -as you said- are based on facts.
After Eduren
Post by: Org on November 22, 2009, 02:38:01 pm
I was going to, but I forgot to confirm it.Webadict, if you don't see the obviousness of why Org should be converted, you should just kill yourself now.... Why on earth would you want to have Org on your team? Especially if you're CHOOSING!
The only reason you'd do it is if you were especially crazy or knew he was a roleblocker.
Also, why didn't you block last Night, Org?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 22, 2009, 04:19:58 pm
Post by: webadict on November 22, 2009, 05:04:38 pm
Dak, going all Webadict and insulting people will not win friends and influence people.Obviously it does if I'm so influential.
Post by: dakarian on November 22, 2009, 05:26:47 pm
But he went back, pulled from that past day, and flat out spoke a complete untruth that could've been seen by just reading the posts directly after and before it and trying to accuse me with it.
In fact, almost all of the arguments have been based on incorrect and misleading information.
I'd getting rediculous after a while.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 22, 2009, 06:53:53 pm
Quote from: Dakarian
I ignored it? Go read the very post AFTER it..starting with *KICK*.
Then go to the next page to find my next post. I'm done with Eduren and now talking about the game as a whole. Soon after this, I run my Wide Scan and turn to Zai.
Ignore it? I stopped going after Eduren after it. Early into the Web/Dak battle? It was after it ended.
You know, Dakarian, I gave you the benefit of the doubt here. I assumed you missed his reply because, frankly, his reply is crap. You go from "KILL EDUREN NOW!" to "Ok, Eduren's town." for THIS post? Really?
I'm going off on Eduren based on his 'surprise' response to my prod on him, not for the vote and joke.
Since I don't want to comb your last five walls of text, I'm going to assume that this is basically what you are holding against me.
Here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg852197#msg852197) I make a joke about how you confused Meph with Pandar. You then (in my opinion) overreact (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg852210#msg852210). I am surprised at your reaction and then assume that you didn't get it (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg852227#msg852227). From the beginning it was a joke and even Toony recognized that (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg852217#msg852217).
Now, since you guys decided to post a handful of pages while I was away, I am going do some reading.
He added NOTHING to the conversation. He basically recapped everything WE ALL KNEW, and yet you unvote him? Not only did he admit to not reading all your posts (which is scummy), he also doesn't post additional suspiscions (also scummy). Now why on earth would a townie unvote here? I have no fucking clue. Scum would unvote because nobody jumped on the bandwagon. Town would unvote because... umm... they're easily swayed?
So in other words, either you're a moron who jumped off Eduren for no reason or you're scum. Since I happen to know for a fact you aren't a moron, you must be scum.
Oh, and then there's this, which you DID ignore.
I go through a mountain of mess and the result is anti-climatic.Please, share your results. While I am too tired to analyze right now, it'd be good to get it out now, while it's fresh in your mind. And also: you mean anticlimactic?
*KICK*
Quote from: Dakarian
Ignore it? I stopped going after Eduren after it. Early into the Web/Dak battle? It was after it ended.
Oh, I'm sorry, I wrongful attributed you as commenting on Webadict at some point during the day after your discussion ended. Ooops, I was wrong. Well, there's your scan, but that doesn't count since you don't commend on people's scumminess in general in those.
It doesn't matter how strong the suspicion was, you stated you had NO suspicion for Webadict day one. Day one, you said you suspected Webadict. Even if it's only a little bit, you still just lied. Oh, you attack me for making mistakes, guess you aren't so high and mighty yourself, are you?
So the point is that we're both pots calling each other black?
I'm saying you attacking me for making mistakes when you've made mistakes yourself is bullshit. But ok, when I make mistakes, please, point them out to me.
Dakarian, I love how you continually say "Why didn't you say anything until now?" You wanna know what? That doesn't matter one bit. We have all the time we need, so bringing it up day 2 is the same as bringing it up day 3. Well, we don't get the input of the deceased, but the important thing is, answer the questions, comment on the statements, and say your thoughts. Don't focus so much on what should of been, focus on what's going on right now.
Post by: dakarian on November 22, 2009, 09:35:44 pm
Remember why I went after Eduren in the first place? I disliked how he overreacted when I pushed him. It was a hard push over very little, but he looked panicy over it, so kept pushing him. Before he could respond more, he went silent.
So what made me come off of him? Same reason why I went after him: his attitude. He sounded more reasonable with that post, even after I was staring at him in the face. I was reading his reaction-since I was after him for overreaction-and his reaction was enough to calm me down.
Going from "OMG DIE" to "meh, Unvote" in one post... you forget bay 12 then. I was flinging WOTs demanding Alex's death and one 3 paragraph post from you was enough to cause me to unvote and leave the two of you alone.
So no.. I'm not a moron and no I'm not scum. I pushed him due to a particular cause and he settled that cause so I let go.
Quote
Dakarian, I love how you continually say "Why didn't you say anything until now?" You wanna know what? That doesn't matter one bit. We have all the time we need, so bringing it up day 2 is the same as bringing it up day 3. Well, we don't get the input of the deceased, but the important thing is, answer the questions, comment on the statements, and say your thoughts. Don't focus so much on what should of been, focus on what's going on right now.
Pointing it out day 2 is very different from day 3 for one reason: we lost a townie.
If you felt there was something wrong with my reason for attacking him then why did you not try to stop me? Why not say "That's WIFOM bs"? Why not try to convince me? Don't say you aren't like that: you stopped me from hunting after Alex and I was much MUCH more tunnelvisioned on him.
No, you either are pulling this out of your backside now in some desperate attempt to lynch me, or you already knew it Day 2 and didn't really care since it was Neruz dying and not..say...you. A third option? Perahps, but however you spin it, it still is ugly how you're using it.
And that's the point. It's not just you making mistakes. It's not just you waiting till now. It's not just the accusations that change every other post. It's the overall 'you'.
You spent way too much time hunting folks who aren't scum.
Your only true scumhunting move was towards a third party.
You played at thinking Neruz was scummy enough to hammer but without actually hammering.
When you were called out for it, you get hyperdefensive. When you get called out for being defensive, you started this campaign of "kill Dakarian through any means necessary."
And now you keep deflecting my attacks against you to keep on bringing up smaller and smaller attacks against me. Thus now we formally add Accusation Dodging and deflection to the mix.
I waited and waited to get some response of your defense now that I put my attack on the table in front of you, but you're content to try to vilify me and, failing, that, to deflect with accents of "well, we both made mistakes".
Your attack never had substance because you don't really consider me scummy. You just struck out and are now trying hard to cover it up with bull to make it look legitimate. In the end, this whole mess is just one BIG "please don't lynch Mr.Person".
So I guess you DID give your answer to my accusations after all: they are factual, and you can't fight them.
Which means I truly am done with you. Go ahead and keep accusing me if you like. You've already proven yourself.
@Everyone
I said it before.. now I can formally say it now. Please look at the argument between Mr.person and myself in regards to Mr.Person as scum.
If there's a flaw in my argument against him, please point it out, since Mr.Person doesn't seem to care to.
If my argument sounds fair but you still question or doubt, please bring them up for Mr.Person to answer.
If my argument is sound and you have no means to defend Mr.Person, please vote for him. It's time we finally take down one of the scum from this game.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 22, 2009, 09:40:07 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 22, 2009, 09:53:06 pm
Dakarian [5]: Webadict, Rashilul, ToonyMan, Cheeetar, Mr.Person
ToonyMan [1]: Eduren
Webadict [1]: RedWarrior0
SirBayer [3]: CobaltKobold, Mephansteras, Vector
Mr.Person [1]: Dakarian
Still alive: SirBayer, Cheeetar, Dakarian, SHAD0Wdump (INACTIVE, REPLACEMENT NEEDED), Vector, Mr.Person, Mephansteras, Eduren, ToonyMan, Webadict, Org, CobaltKobold, Rashilul, RedWarrior0
Blah blah tell me where I fucked up blah blah.
Dakarian gets AWESOME POINTS for fixing his signature.
Post by: webadict on November 22, 2009, 10:50:09 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 22, 2009, 10:56:09 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 22, 2009, 11:38:29 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on November 23, 2009, 04:21:41 pm
Actually, not really. But continue stroking your ego.Dak, going all Webadict and insulting people will not win friends and influence people.Obviously it does if I'm so influential.
Post by: SirBayer on November 23, 2009, 06:06:43 pm
So I have this crazy theory that I don't think is very sound at all, but I thought I'd voice it. (I can hear you all already: "If it's stupid, why say it?!" Well, from the midst of retardation, occasional gems shine, so I figured I'd pop this in here.)
What if Webadict were scum here?
Wouldn't that explain a lot about what he said earlier? About how the scum would choose someone experienced? See, this is where it gets shaky, because it relies on that all being WIFOM. But can you guys see how that is possible? Wouldn't it be GREAT if Town-Dakarian got lynched while the scum merrily NK'd again?
I'll admit this takes the risk that the scum recruited a poor player, but that might be worth the WIFOM. What do you guys think?
Post by: ToonyMan on November 23, 2009, 06:09:23 pm
Post by: Vector on November 23, 2009, 06:11:41 pm
(Dak: I'll look over that argument again in a minute after voicing this thought.)
So I have this crazy theory that I don't think is very sound at all, but I thought I'd voice it. (I can hear you all already: "If it's stupid, why say it?!" Well, from the midst of retardation, occasional gems shine, so I figured I'd pop this in here.)
What if Webadict were scum here?
Wouldn't that explain a lot about what he said earlier? About how the scum would choose someone experienced? See, this is where it gets shaky, because it relies on that all being WIFOM. But can you guys see how that is possible? Wouldn't it be GREAT if Town-Dakarian got lynched while the scum merrily NK'd again?
I'll admit this takes the risk that the scum recruited a poor player, but that might be worth the WIFOM. What do you guys think?
...
I think you're a scummy young man who is being sent out by his teammates to randomly spew WIFOM all over the place, because they know you'll get away with it.
"What if Webadict were scum?" Honestly. What if this were secretly a Bastard Mod, and we're actually all gigantic mountains of cauliflower and fairy princesses? Yes, I can see how that's possible. Some days you just feel like cauliflower. But wouldn't it be EVEN MORE AMUSING if you tipped the WIFOM-scales and got Webadict lynched BECAUSE HE MIGHT BE SCUM GIVEN WIFOM THAT MIGHT OR MIGHT NOT BE THERE? OH LOOK! WE'VE BEEN WIFOM'D AGAIN.
I just... ugh. It hurts.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 23, 2009, 06:16:33 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 23, 2009, 06:17:39 pm
-.-
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 23, 2009, 06:28:27 pm
Post by: SirBayer on November 23, 2009, 06:34:08 pm
Unvote.
Webadict is scum for spreading WIFOM as previously mentioned.
Since this appears to be the only proposition of fact that you accept, I have rephrased. I hope you are pleased.
Post by: Vector on November 23, 2009, 07:21:04 pm
Point well taken.
Unvote.
Webadict is scum for spreading WIFOM as previously mentioned.
Since this appears to be the only proposition of fact that you accept, I have rephrased. I hope you are pleased.
Not really. Why am I not pleased? Because it isn't about pleasing me. My tendency to yell at you in Mafia games is largely meaningless. It's about the part where you aren't thinking, and when you don't think, it hurts. It's not that I hate you. It's that I want you to open your eyes.
Why is that so important to me? I don't really know.
It is not just about the phrasing. It's about the part where you're buddying with the town. It's about the caution. Most importantly, it's about the part where you are drinking the WIFOM by the gallon. It's about the part where you take a statement of "Well, logically the scum would want this kind of player" as an attempt to spread WIFOM--and that's all you come here and do. You don't really comment much on behavior. You just stare at the WIFOM and hope you're guessing right.
Then when someone attacks your claims and thinking style, you immediately back off and act vaguely sulky, as though I had some sort of vast power over you. Yes, I know that having someone jump all over you is not exactly pleasant. It's too bad that you seem to be so unhappy about it.
I don't know. It's good to see that you're trying; you've honestly improved quite a bit. It drives me crazy to watch you run all over the place like this.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 23, 2009, 07:26:52 pm
TOONYMAN HAS BECOME THE CAULIFLOWER PRINCESS
If that's true, it is gong to mark the strangest thing I've ever seen in a mafia game.
SirBayer, care to back up your claim a bit? From what I saw, your argument was that webadict was the one converted because the mafia would convert him hoping that because he's the obvious choice no one will suspect him? Have you seen anything to indicate that he's changed alignment between day 1 and day 2?
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 23, 2009, 07:32:01 pm
If that's true, it is gong to mark the strangest thing I've ever seen in a mafia game.
Just a joke, don't mind me.
Post by: SirBayer on November 23, 2009, 07:40:07 pm
I appreciate the sentiment.
However, you're saying that's not a possibility at all?
(A note on the not commenting on behavior: That's because I suck at reading behavior. I don't identify scumtells... something I hope to learn to do through playing.)
Meph, that's not what I argued at all. I argued that perhaps he's been scum all along, and that he was attempting to divert our attention to important players in order to get them lynched. Weak, crazy argument, but it was just a thought I'd had.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 23, 2009, 07:43:08 pm
Yes, web could easily be scum. But is that your major argument for voting for him?
Post by: Vector on November 23, 2009, 07:53:44 pm
However, you're saying that's not a possibility at all?
(A note on the not commenting on behavior: That's because I suck at reading behavior. I don't identify scumtells... something I hope to learn to do through playing.)
It's not so much that I'm saying it's an impossibility. It is certainly possible, but there are certain situations where you don't want to say what is possible and what isn't possible. In the case of a Bastard Mod, you usually want to talk about the situation and discuss various eventualities. Sometimes you want to logically progress through what the scumteam might be thinking, when you feel you don't have many leads. You generally don't want to go "But hey, what if he's scum, guys? What then? I don't know, but he might be scum? And I'm going to say that Dakarian is town and stuff. Because I guess that Webadict is scum, so I can also guess that Dakarian is town."
^Sorry for the weird over-simplification. I'm trying to explain how confusing I find your statements after I've sent them through my processors.
The definition of WIFOM is a rather delicate one, and you learn it only by playing extensively.
So, I'm not saying Webadict is scum or town; I can't read anything about him. What I'm saying is that the way you're going about things hurts the town more than it helps.
(Believe me, I understand about the sucking at reading behavior. I also understand about wanting to follow others' arguments--I used to be pretty much unable to conceive of the idea that others might be lying. Now I still suck at town, but at least I'm not anywhere near as bad as I used to be)
Post by: ToonyMan on November 23, 2009, 07:55:04 pm
TOONYMAN HAS BECOME THE CAULIFLOWER PRINCESS
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: dakarian on November 23, 2009, 07:59:40 pm
2.
@Toonyman
MA BRAIN ASPODE!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 23, 2009, 08:03:17 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on November 23, 2009, 09:12:56 pm
1. Why is it that my very well setup argument against Mr.Person is ignored for a mass of WIFOM for Webadict?
2.
@Toonyman
MA BRAIN ASPODE!!!!!!!!!
Why are you trying to tunnelvision the town?
Post by: dakarian on November 23, 2009, 09:28:53 pm
At this point you're just throwing any term that sounds negative.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 23, 2009, 10:46:05 pm
how does asking them to look at you causing the entire TOWN to tunnelvision?
At this point you're just throwing any term that sounds negative.
No, the very first time anybody says something that's not about me, you tell them to refocus on me. I don't see why you want to kill other discussions, even if they are somewhat pointless.
Post by: dakarian on November 23, 2009, 10:48:45 pm
I don't mind if they look at it and say "mr.person is town and here's why." I'd rather me be right.
Bah, getting back to whether I am scum or not is better.. right now it looks like the town is just running out of steam alltogether.
Post by: dakarian on November 23, 2009, 10:56:59 pm
SHAD0WDump
Eduren
CobaltKobold
Rashilul
Now when you include the folks that are going "OH I don't knooooowwwww" it explains why we're rather stuck.
So to try to keep this thing alive, I'd like EVERYONE to post up and, and state who they suspect most right now. Put the person in Red or blue if you like but use either color. That way we can get an idea on how the town is AND it'll get everyone to WAKE UP!
I mean jeesh, a lynch on me is better than an abandoned game, especially after nearly a month of input into it.
Post by: dakarian on November 23, 2009, 10:57:54 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on November 23, 2009, 11:08:26 pm
so you believe a somewhat pointless discussion is better than our argument. Meh to that.
I don't mind if they look at it and say "mr.person is town and here's why." I'd rather me be right.
Bah, getting back to whether I am scum or not is better.. right now it looks like the town is just running out of steam alltogether.
Considering we're kind of done, yes, I consider the discussion to be more important than everyone's thoughts on me and you.
Post by: webadict on November 23, 2009, 11:09:07 pm
Ah, I see, I misread it the first time.Aaaaahhh, what is that aroma I smell?
Yes, web could easily be scum. But is that your major argument for voting for him?
Vector, can't you smell it too? I'm sure it's major WIFOM. Look, it's one thing for SirBayer to do it (I feel icky for using FoS), but when you do this active lurk/WIFOM/passive thing, it's not cool at all, Mephansteras.
So, you're going to get in here and start playing. Kk? Thx.
Org, why didn't you roleblock yesterday?
Post by: dakarian on November 23, 2009, 11:12:08 pm
so you believe a somewhat pointless discussion is better than our argument. Meh to that.
I don't mind if they look at it and say "mr.person is town and here's why." I'd rather me be right.
Bah, getting back to whether I am scum or not is better.. right now it looks like the town is just running out of steam alltogether.
Considering we're kind of done, yes, I consider the discussion to be more important than everyone's thoughts on me and you.
We're not done. I'm not done with you until you're lynched.
You, meanwhile, haven't said if you still want me dead or not. Mind declaring it now?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 23, 2009, 11:13:29 pm
Post by: webadict on November 23, 2009, 11:16:10 pm
I still find you suspicious, Dakarian.What, exactly, do you find suspicious about him?
Post by: Mr.Person on November 23, 2009, 11:17:43 pm
so you believe a somewhat pointless discussion is better than our argument. Meh to that.
I don't mind if they look at it and say "mr.person is town and here's why." I'd rather me be right.
Bah, getting back to whether I am scum or not is better.. right now it looks like the town is just running out of steam alltogether.
Considering we're kind of done, yes, I consider the discussion to be more important than everyone's thoughts on me and you.
We're not done. I'm not done with you until you're lynched.
You, meanwhile, haven't said if you still want me dead or not. Mind declaring it now?
Wait, what do you think I'm talking about being done with?
Well, why don't you think about this for a moment. I'm voting you. It's not a random vote. Therefore, I must want you lynched.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 24, 2009, 02:41:48 am
Ah, I see, I misread it the first time.Aaaaahhh, what is that aroma I smell?
Yes, web could easily be scum. But is that your major argument for voting for him?
Vector, can't you smell it too? I'm sure it's major WIFOM. Look, it's one thing for SirBayer to do it (I feel icky for using FoS), but when you do this active lurk/WIFOM/passive thing, it's not cool at all, Mephansteras.
So, you're going to get in here and start playing. Kk? Thx.
Org, why didn't you roleblock yesterday?
Well, my vote is already on him, so I don't have much else to do to him other then grill him about what he's doing and why.
I do need to start reading more of these WoTs to make sense of some stuff. I've just had so little time at work lately it's been tough to go through everything in a game this active.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 24, 2009, 03:43:17 am
Go find my previous posts, I'm not going to find them for you.I still find you suspicious, Dakarian.What, exactly, do you find suspicious about him?
Post by: Rashilul on November 24, 2009, 05:11:18 am
Post by: dakarian on November 24, 2009, 09:11:42 am
Note 1: Except for Mr.Person, who I've been dealing with for a while, everyone is based on what they've said AFTER my request, since it's easier for them to just write a quick summary than for us to go scanning over 10+ pages to find old posts.
SirBayer
Cheeetar - Dakarian (no reason)
Dakarian - Mr. Person (Little scumhunting, fake 'hammer', defensiveness, desperate offense)
SHAD0WDump
Vector
Mr.Person - Dakarian (liar, lack of scumhunting, lack of reasons)
Mephansteras- SirBayer (no reason)
Eduren
ToonyMan
webadict - SirBayer, Meph, (active lurk/WIFOM/passive thing) Org (lack of roleblocking)
Org
CobaltKobold
Rashilul - nothing
RedWarrior0
Will keep this updated as others join in/stop being lazy/remember this game exists/gets replaced with -5 karma hits.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 24, 2009, 12:08:40 pm
Dude, dakarian you're scum. This game won't end because 3 or 4 people just won't vote you because THEY not here. *shakes fist*
Post by: dakarian on November 24, 2009, 12:45:26 pm
Note Mr.person's reason is shown. Why do you think I'm scum, toony?
SirBayer
Cheeetar - Dakarian (no reason)
Dakarian - Mr. Person (Little scumhunting, fake 'hammer', defensiveness, desperate offense)
SHAD0WDump
Vector
Mr.Person - Dakarian (liar, lack of scumhunting, lack of reasons)
Mephansteras- SirBayer (no reason)
Eduren
ToonyMan - Dakarian (no reason)
webadict - SirBayer, Meph, (active lurk/WIFOM/passive thing) Org (lack of roleblocking)
Org
CobaltKobold
Rashilul - nothing
RedWarrior0
Post by: ToonyMan on November 24, 2009, 12:54:15 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 24, 2009, 01:23:37 pm
SirBayer
Cheeetar - Dakarian (no reason)
Dakarian - Mr. Person (Little scumhunting, fake 'hammer', defensiveness, desperate offense)
SHAD0WDump
Vector
Mr.Person - Dakarian (liar, lack of scumhunting, lack of reasons)
Mephansteras- SirBayer (no reason)
Eduren
ToonyMan - Dakarian (he's a convert, picked by leafsnail)
webadict - SirBayer, Meph, (active lurk/WIFOM/passive thing) Org (lack of roleblocking)
Org
CobaltKobold
Rashilul - nothing
RedWarrior0
still need like, half the people.
Post by: webadict on November 24, 2009, 01:26:43 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on November 24, 2009, 01:27:46 pm
This wouldn't be so annoying if everyone that was playing consisted of me, dakarian, Mr.Person and ToonyMan. Because then we'd be ACTIVE!
Agree'd 100 million percent.
Post by: dakarian on November 24, 2009, 01:30:43 pm
Post by: Org on November 24, 2009, 01:58:53 pm
This wouldn't be so annoying if everyone that was playing consisted of me, dakarian, Mr.Person and ToonyMan. Because then we'd be ACTIVE!Im playing. : (
Post by: dakarian on November 24, 2009, 02:16:11 pm
If not, mind telling us who you suspect in red or blue text?
Post by: dakarian on November 24, 2009, 02:16:27 pm
Post by: Org on November 24, 2009, 02:26:57 pm
And web, didnt I say why I didnt roleblock?
Post by: dakarian on November 24, 2009, 02:28:31 pm
Someone who you truly suspect. Use at least Blue text if you refuse to vote for them.
Post by: webadict on November 24, 2009, 02:29:00 pm
Well, Sir Bayer was very Wifomish. Like crazy. Although, it was probably just being a newb.No
And web, didnt I say why I didnt roleblock?
Post by: Org on November 24, 2009, 02:41:09 pm
Post by: SirBayer on November 24, 2009, 04:59:26 pm
Except Org, but I'm made to understand that's normal, so...
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 24, 2009, 05:44:33 pm
Btw, these people have not posted once all of today:Sorry, trying to research for/write last term's term paper. Ask why if you must.
SHAD0WDump
Eduren
CobaltKobold
Rashilul
Now when you include the folks that are going "OH I don't knooooowwwww" it explains why we're rather stuck.
So to try to keep this thing alive, I'd like EVERYONE to post up and, and state who they suspect most right now. Put the person in Red or blue if you like but use either color. That way we can get an idea on how the town is AND it'll get everyone to WAKE UP!
I mean jeesh, a lynch on me is better than an abandoned game, especially after nearly a month of input into it.
Sirbayer(already voted), webadict, dakarian, rashilul ...and mephansteras. Sirbayer's gotten a few posts which were chock-full of scum and I don't think there're two jesters. IF you want frosting on that cake, he's claimed doc and survived a few nights with that claim (take with salt) and -he has no leads, and I hear confusion is a scumtell.
Webadict I have adequately explained my reasons on. If he's scum, it would then feel like Cheeetar and Eduren are scum, as they both in some way stopped his lynch.
Dakarian is being strangely passive compared to usual.
Rashilul is being lurky and sheepy and hasn't got quite enough to establish that this is how he always is. (Contrast eduren, who is usually lurky and at least has reasoning. Additionally, Org who is pretty much normal for him)
You know SHAD0Wdump's requested replacement right?
Post by: SirBayer on November 24, 2009, 11:55:14 pm
Quote from: CobaltKobold
he's claimed doc and survived a few nights with that claim (take with salt)
I recall seeing an argument between two people in some game I was in recently. The resolution was that calling someone out for claiming and then not dying is spreading obscene amounts of WIFOM.
In short, meh.
Post by: webadict on November 25, 2009, 12:30:05 am
Kobold, stop spreading WIFOM.Cobalt was even being cautious about it too.Quote from: CobaltKoboldhe's claimed doc and survived a few nights with that claim (take with salt)
I recall seeing an argument between two people in some game I was in recently. The resolution was that calling someone out for claiming and then not dying is spreading obscene amounts of WIFOM.
In short, meh.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 25, 2009, 12:47:51 am
How did I stop his lynch, where did I stop his lynch.
Webadict I have adequately explained my reasons on. If he's scum, it would then feel like Cheeetar and Eduren are scum, as they both in some way stopped his lynch.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 25, 2009, 12:58:33 am
Kobold, stop spreading WIFOM.Oh, I did not know that. Thanks.Quote from: CobaltKoboldhe's claimed doc and survived a few nights with that claim (take with salt)
I recall seeing an argument between two people in some game I was in recently. The resolution was that calling someone out for claiming and then not dying is spreading obscene amounts of WIFOM.
In short, meh.
Cheeetar: By picking the "Kill Webadict Now" rule.
Post by: Vector on November 25, 2009, 01:02:55 am
Kobold, stop spreading WIFOM.Oh, I did not know that. Thanks.Quote from: CobaltKoboldhe's claimed doc and survived a few nights with that claim (take with salt)
I recall seeing an argument between two people in some game I was in recently. The resolution was that calling someone out for claiming and then not dying is spreading obscene amounts of WIFOM.
In short, meh.
...........................................
Despite the fact that you were, in fact, IN THAT GAME? And were one of the people arguing such? My lord, he is scummy.
Well, that's one of my suspects, right next to Bayer.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 25, 2009, 01:06:13 am
Post by: Vector on November 25, 2009, 01:06:37 am
I use short-term memory for mafia. :(
Except for the fact that you memorize lots of meta.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 25, 2009, 01:23:29 am
Reading old games is different. I can collect someone's behaviour in short-term and then bin it into "town tell" or "scum tell" when they flip, because the game is done, it can be read quickly.
Nobody's asking.
Post by: Vector on November 25, 2009, 01:52:31 am
Nobody's asking.
What, about your term paper that isn't a term paper?
I am... very angry. If you want to divulge whatever your secret is, then tell it. If you don't want to tell it, then don't mention it. Why should we be made to pull it out of you? We aren't THINGS you get to manipulate. We aren't receptacles to drain off your mind. It's one thing to say "I'm having trouble with something... please help." It's one thing to say "I have something I want to talk about." It's one thing to say "I'm having trouble with school, and it sucks, and I'm going to go trolling for sympathy."
It's a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THING to say "You can ask if you want" and then go "WHY DIDN'T ANYONE ASK?!"
You say "ask why if you must" and then "Oh, no one's asking." Hey, look. It's a hook. Pretended reluctance. Sadness at the ignoring of emotional hook; an inability to play for sympathy.
I just... ugh. This sort of thing is why I hate people. Bloody unbearably confusing brutes.
I am going to apologize in advance, because I know I didn't probably want to say what I just said to whoever I said it to. Whoever you really are, I am sorry.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 25, 2009, 02:05:52 am
Nice how you can remember Org's doctor claim as vig from Para2, but you can't remember your own opinions on what is scummy and what is not. A most convenient change.I read that one twice at least, paying close attention to who was or wasn't there. (I have continually had to look up which para it was.) Also, it is mentioned many times over in the awards thread. Also, paranormal mafias are usually quite interesting, unlike beginners' mafias. I vaguely recall the townfight between you and FreeBeer, primarily because it was my real baseline getter for your meta as town. Things are more likely to be remembered
Nobody's asking.Nobody was asking about my "How to play mafia" is what I was saying, I think.
Post by: Vector on November 25, 2009, 02:11:13 am
Nobody's asking.Nobody was asking about my "How to play mafia" is what I was saying, I think.
That's what think you were saying two or three minutes ago, you attention-grabbing little slimeball?
...
I really need to walk away from this, because I'm getting too angry.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 25, 2009, 02:12:00 am
...? I picked that... to get people to lynch Webadict. I said that. Quite clearly. How would picking that role make me in any way not-wanting-to-lynch-you-ish to Webadict?Kobold, stop spreading WIFOM.Oh, I did not know that. Thanks.Quote from: CobaltKoboldhe's claimed doc and survived a few nights with that claim (take with salt)
I recall seeing an argument between two people in some game I was in recently. The resolution was that calling someone out for claiming and then not dying is spreading obscene amounts of WIFOM.
In short, meh.
Cheeetar: By picking the "Kill Webadict Now" rule.
Post by: Vector on November 25, 2009, 02:18:03 am
Spoiler: Cleaned-up post (click to show/hide)
Post by: Cheeetar on November 25, 2009, 02:36:07 am
...? I picked that... to get people to lynch Webadict. I said that. Quite clearly. How would picking that role make me in any way not-wanting-to-lynch-you-ish to Webadict?
And by role, I mean rule.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 25, 2009, 03:14:54 am
...? I picked that... to get people to lynch Webadict. I said that. Quite clearly. How would picking that role make me in any way not-wanting-to-lynch-you-ish to Webadict?The effect was that people went "Oh shit, webadict SK transfer" and didn't lynch webadict. You're still low though, because you're not the proximate cause.
Quote from: Vector
That's what think you were saying two or three minutes ago, you attention-grabbing little slimeball?Yes. Is that a real question? You're being rather...I don't know, it sounds a little like
Quote from: Vector
And yeah, I think we've found scum that doesn't know how to press questions when under fire.
Quote from: Vector
Sadness at the ignoring of emotional hook; an inability to play for sympathy.
Quote from: Vector
I am going to apologize in advance, because I know I didn't probably want to say what I just said to whoever I said it to. Whoever you really are, I am sorry.
Post by: Vector on November 25, 2009, 03:29:44 am
quote=Vector]That's what think you were saying two or three minutes ago, you attention-grabbing little slimeball?Yes. Is that a real question? You're being rather...I don't know, it sounds a little like
Quote from: Vector
And yeah, I think we've found scum that doesn't know how to press questions when under fire.
Quote from: Vector
Sadness at the ignoring of emotional hook; an inability to play for sympathy.
Quote from: Vector
I am going to apologize in advance, because I know I didn't probably want to say what I just said to whoever I said it to. Whoever you really are, I am sorry.[/quote]
Part the first.
I find it difficult to believe that you are so much of a moron that you CANNOT EVEN REMEMBER WHAT YOU WERE SAYING TWO MINUTES AGO. OR MAYBE YOU'RE BEING INCONSISTENT BECAUSE YOU'RE SCUM.
Part the second.
Don't bring up currently-running Mafia games. Imbecile.
Part the third.
I was trying not to hurt your feelings, you idiot. You're not supposed to feel sorry for me. You're not supposed to ask "Aww, Vector, why do you apologize all the time?" You're supposed to come eat me with the knowledge that this is a game and that both of us have agreed to be eaten in this manner.
The fact that you are throwing such up in my face as though it were anything but an attempt to be kind confuses and infuriates me.
Part the fourth.
You may think you can pass over your little emotional ploy, but you cannot. Scumbucket.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 25, 2009, 03:50:08 am
I had a headache. It was solved with the power of CAFFEINE.Quote from: VectorThat's what think you were saying two or three minutes ago, you attention-grabbing little slimeball?Yes. Is that a real question? You're being rather...I don't know, it sounds a little likeQuote from: VectorAnd yeah, I think we've found scum that doesn't know how to press questions when under fire.Quote from: VectorSadness at the ignoring of emotional hook; an inability to play for sympathy.Quote from: VectorI am going to apologize in advance, because I know I didn't probably want to say what I just said to whoever I said it to. Whoever you really are, I am sorry.
Part the first.
I find it difficult to believe that you are so much of a moron that you CANNOT EVEN REMEMBER WHAT YOU WERE SAYING TWO MINUTES AGO. OR MAYBE YOU'RE BEING INCONSISTENT BECAUSE YOU'RE SCUM.
Quote from: Vector
I was trying not to hurt your feelings, you idiot.ERROR INCONSISTENT
Quote from: Vector
You're supposed to come eat me with the knowledge that this is a game and that both of us have agreed to be eaten in this manner.That's what I WAS doing. I have a tendency to communicate in very indirect manners in speech, it is somewhat better in writing.
Quote from: Vector
The fact that you are throwing such up in my face as though it were anything but an attempt to be kind confuses and infuriates me.Good. Confusion is a scumtell.
Quote from: Vector
You may think you can pass over your little emotional ploy, but you cannot. Scumbucket.ERROR HYPOCRISY
Post by: Cheeetar on November 25, 2009, 04:23:41 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 25, 2009, 06:22:28 am
Post by: ToonyMan on November 25, 2009, 09:21:14 am
Post by: ToonyMan on November 25, 2009, 09:21:38 am
Unvote Dakarian (I think?), vote CobaltKobold, I find you incredibly suspicious at the moment, because the points you're making for Vector's lynch? I'm not seeing them. I don't see hypocrisy, you say you're excused from inconsistency and then call him out for being inconsistent and you say confusion is a scumtell.
SCUMMM----EYYYYY.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 25, 2009, 09:31:54 am
Post by: ToonyMan on November 25, 2009, 09:38:52 am
Post by: Cheeetar on November 25, 2009, 10:14:33 am
Post by: Vector on November 25, 2009, 11:38:48 am
I had a headache. It was solved with the power of CAFFEINE.Quote from: VectorThat's what think you were saying two or three minutes ago, you attention-grabbing little slimeball?Yes. Is that a real question? You're being rather...I don't know, it sounds a little likeQuote from: VectorAnd yeah, I think we've found scum that doesn't know how to press questions when under fire.Quote from: VectorSadness at the ignoring of emotional hook; an inability to play for sympathy.Quote from: VectorI am going to apologize in advance, because I know I didn't probably want to say what I just said to whoever I said it to. Whoever you really are, I am sorry.
Part the first.
I find it difficult to believe that you are so much of a moron that you CANNOT EVEN REMEMBER WHAT YOU WERE SAYING TWO MINUTES AGO. OR MAYBE YOU'RE BEING INCONSISTENT BECAUSE YOU'RE SCUM.
Good for you. Apparently caffeine also solves scumnesia, am I right?
Quote from: VectorI was trying not to hurt your feelings, you idiot.ERROR INCONSISTENT
Hence the "was."
Now I care less than I probably should.
Quote from: VectorYou're supposed to come eat me with the knowledge that this is a game and that both of us have agreed to be eaten in this manner.That's what I WAS doing. I have a tendency to communicate in very indirect manners in speech, it is somewhat better in writing.
...
Yeah, okay. You're just bloody incomprehensible.
Quote from: VectorThe fact that you are throwing such up in my face as though it were anything but an attempt to be kind confuses and infuriates me.Good. Confusion is a scumtell.
Confusion is also a side effect of your indirect speech pattern.
Quote from: VectorYou may think you can pass over your little emotional ploy, but you cannot. Scumbucket.ERROR HYPOCRISY
No error. You think you can come waltzing out, going "I have a paper from last term! Ask me about it if you have to... no one asked?" and I'm not going to see you trying to worm into our angry little hearts? You only get incompletes if something really bad happens...
And you know what? My apologies are not attempts at emotional appeal. You can cast them as such, if you like, but I'm well aware that they get annoying fairly quickly.
Scumbucket.
Post by: webadict on November 25, 2009, 12:21:26 pm
What what, Vector and CobaltKobold are fighting in two different mafia games at the same time!So...?
Post by: ToonyMan on November 25, 2009, 12:28:03 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 25, 2009, 02:51:31 pm
SirBayer - nothing (after almost 100 pages of text)
Cheeetar - CobaltKobold (does not like his points against Vector)
Dakarian - Mr. Person (Little scumhunting, fake 'hammer', defensiveness, desperate offense)
SHAD0WDump - Being replaced
Vector - nothing*
Mr.Person - Dakarian (liar, lack of scumhunting, lack of reasons)
Mephansteras- SirBayer (no reason)
Eduren - Lurk
ToonyMan - Dakarian (he's a convert, picked by leafsnail)
webadict - SirBayer, Meph, (active lurk/WIFOM/passive thing) Org (lack of roleblocking)
Org
CobaltKobold - Sirbayer (scummy posts, claimed doc and lived and looks confused), Webadict (not explaining), Dakarian (passive), Rashilul (lurky/sheepy), Meph (no reason)
Rashilul - nothing
RedWarrior0 - lurk
Oh yes.. very nice. Wish I had started this LONG ago.
@ Mod RedWarrior and Eduren needs a Prod I believe
@Vector. Are you voting for Cobalt? You seem hard pressed on him over it. (can't tell if you're just trying to knock him down or lynch him as scum).
@Cobalt, mind showing where SirBayer claimed Doc? I missed that one.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 25, 2009, 03:20:08 pm
Here is my list of where people are at, suspicion-wise and my (brief) reason for it.
SirBayer - Lynch All Liars - Fake claimed a role, as far as I can tell. @Webadict, were you blocked Night 3? SirBayer said you would be, but I didn't see a confirmation on that. Also, he's acted odd all game, and voted for people with little or no reason behind it.
CobaltKobold - Had very weak reasons for voting Zai day 1, looked a lot like scum trying for an easy lynch at the time. His behavior all game has been somewhat rotten. Lots of deflecting questions.
Rashilul - No real explanation on why he voted Zai, vote jumped a lot day 2 and voted for Neruz "to get to day 3". Either scum or really doesn't care who wins this game.
Mr.Person Could easily be lying about his target being switched on him without him knowing. His arguments have either been weak or completely ignored the actual actions of the person he is attacking to focus on select bits.
Cheeetar - Been very quiet, as always. Hammered Zai just to get the game moving.
Eduren - Blocked the lynch on webadict day 1, mostly quiet. Posts tend to be small with little content.
ToonyMan - All his guesses so far on people he is 100% sure are scum have been wrong (I'll forgive Zai, he was being deliberately scummy).
Vector - Didn't really show up until Day 2. Strong candidate for Leafsnail's conversion. Suddenly very aggressive.
Org - Is Org. His actions are pretty random as town or scum, so he's hard to read.
RedWarrior0 - Been very, very quiet. Very few posts, very little content.
SHAD0WDump - Acted strange all game, has asked for a replacement
webadict - I can no longer read webadict, even when I'm Mod and know what's going on. He's making very odd decisions lately, but I just can't tell if he's town and being odd or scum and being odd.
Dakarian - My investigation Day 2 showed him as being Town
Mephansteras - I know I'm town
Post by: Org on November 25, 2009, 04:04:14 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 25, 2009, 04:21:48 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 25, 2009, 05:22:04 pm
Unvote Dakarian (I think?), vote CobaltKobold, I find you incredibly suspicious at the moment, because the points you're making for Vector's lynch? I'm not seeing them. I don't see hypocrisy, you say you're excused from inconsistency and then call him out for being inconsistent and you say confusion is a scumtell.Please highlight the inconsistency so I can address it rather than hiding your evidence from the town.
@Cobalt, mind showing where SirBayer claimed Doc? I missed that one.
Okay, we really started. Dammit, Panda, make these things clearer ._.
I am, as promised, a Nuclear Rocket Surgeon.
I'm not sure I agree, Webby.
I apologize for not being more useful, but it's bedtime. One last thing before I go, I'll finish my roleclaim properly, though I've practically already done so. I'm a Nuclear Rocket Surgeon, so I can SCIENCE the crap out of people. If they're poisoned, they won't die; if they're attacked, they won't die. If, however, neither of those are true, they are roleblocked from radiation poisoning the next day. So it's a bit of a negative if I miss.
Also - Webby, what do you intend to accomplish with this mass claim? Do we really want people knowing who's capable of powerful things?
CobaltKobold Webadict (not explaining)http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg855250#msg855250
Post by: Vector on November 25, 2009, 05:26:03 pm
@Vector. Are you voting for Cobalt? You seem hard pressed on him over it. (can't tell if you're just trying to knock him down or lynch him as scum).
I'm currently voting for Bayer, and am trying to figure out if CK is scum or just someone who happens to be making me angry.
Post by: Rashilul on November 25, 2009, 08:07:19 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 25, 2009, 08:16:28 pm
Sir, however, claimed doc formally just this day.
As such, I don't believe it's a scumtell that he's still alive.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 25, 2009, 09:15:25 pm
Actuallly, Laetificus, I have thought about that. There was a webadict run "Bring Your Own Role" mafia, and I had a thought on that - it comes with a funny story, which I will relate.I agree:I were running a BYOR then a Surgeon would be quite likely to get doctor. But now we're out in spec-land. So I'll agree that it can't be anything yet.
I was doing a class for a very realistic shuttle simulation, and my teacher is describing how not-difficult something is, and he declared that it wasn't "nuclear rocket surgery". So, my role would be "Nuclear Rocket Surgeon." You'd have three separate probably one-shot abilities, or perhaps two one-shot and one permanent. First of all, you'd certainly be a doctor. You're a surgeon, after all. But secondly, you'd be able to become ascetic AND non-nightkillable, by jumping in your rocket and flying into space for a turn. Finally, there's the Nuclear, which would be covered by the ability to one-shot irradiate one player a turn, like a Poisoner.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 26, 2009, 12:51:37 pm
Webadict: You can't scan tonight. I have an ability that will save lives - but if I miss, it roleblocks the next night. That night would be tonight. If you want to scan me, you'll have to wait until night after tonight. ._. I didn't do it on purpose. You'll be able to confirm that, I assume, especially if the flavor mentions radiation sickness.
No, SirBayer first talked about his ability on day 2, when he claimed he used an ability on Webadict that would protect him but role-block him the next night if he wasn't attacked. I just quoted the first mention of it, but he goes into more detail later. I'll see if I can find it.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 26, 2009, 12:54:10 pm
1. I know I wasn't attacked last night because Panda told me in his PM that you were roleblocked tomorrow night from radiation sickness. He told me this specifically. You were not attacked in a way that I could defend from.
2. Yes, it's strange, but I assumed scum was going to try to knock you off. (If I attempt to protect you again tonight and you're not attacked, you'll die. So I don't think I'm going to do that.)
3. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Org: There's no point. He's accidentally roleblocked already. You should have known that...
There we go, just a bit later he goes into more detail.
Post by: dakarian on November 26, 2009, 01:06:01 pm
Unvote
Vote SirBayer
The claim, combined with the confusion does paint him poorly.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 26, 2009, 01:08:13 pm
Why is everyone I find suspicious voting him! It's a trick, I know it.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 26, 2009, 01:32:30 pm
That's exactly what he wants!
Why is everyone I find suspicious voting him! It's a trick, I know it.
So you find everybody who's currently voting SirBayer to be suspicious?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 26, 2009, 04:14:40 pm
I'm not 'hiding evidence from town'. You said yourself that your inconsistency was to be excused because you were tired, and later in the post called Vector out on inconsistency. All of it was a response to a single post by you I found scummy.Unvote Dakarian (I think?), vote CobaltKobold, I find you incredibly suspicious at the moment, because the points you're making for Vector's lynch? I'm not seeing them. I don't see hypocrisy, you say you're excused from inconsistency and then call him out for being inconsistent and you say confusion is a scumtell.Please highlight the inconsistency so I can address it rather than hiding your evidence from the town.
Part the first.I had a headache. It was solved with the power of CAFFEINE.
I find it difficult to believe that you are so much of a moron that you CANNOT EVEN REMEMBER WHAT YOU WERE SAYING TWO MINUTES AGO. OR MAYBE YOU'RE BEING INCONSISTENT BECAUSE YOU'RE SCUM.
See this right here? You, saying your inconsistency should be ignored.Quote from: VectorI was trying not to hurt your feelings, you idiot.ERROR INCONSISTENT See this right here? You, saying he is being inconsistent.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 26, 2009, 04:15:59 pm
That's exactly what he wants!
Why is everyone I find suspicious voting him! It's a trick, I know it.
So you find everybody who's currently voting SirBayer to be suspicious?
Yeah, mostly that and gullible town.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 26, 2009, 04:22:34 pm
That's exactly what he wants!
Why is everyone I find suspicious voting him! It's a trick, I know it.
So you find everybody who's currently voting SirBayer to be suspicious?
Yeah, mostly that and gullible town.
You're going to have to be more specific there, make sure you say who is town and scum. You can't just say stuff like that, name names!
Post by: ToonyMan on November 26, 2009, 04:24:51 pm
META:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: ToonyMan on November 26, 2009, 04:25:54 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 26, 2009, 04:43:52 pm
See this right here? You, saying your inconsistency should be ignored.This would apply, if it weren't a case of you claiming to know a hidden referent. It's like me saying, when mental faculties subpar, "He's scum" and later going "Oh, I think I meant webadict" and you come back with "Oh no you meant Toonyman CONTRADICTION"
So, stop putting words in my mouth.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 28, 2009, 02:48:52 am
See this right here? You, saying your inconsistency should be ignored.This would apply, if it weren't a case of you claiming to know a hidden referent. It's like me saying, when mental faculties subpar, "He's scum" and later going "Oh, I think I meant webadict" and you come back with "Oh no you meant Toonyman CONTRADICTION"
So, stop putting words in my mouth.
'Claiming to know a hidden referent'???
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 28, 2009, 03:08:17 am
In plainer english, and in this case, "Which question I was claiming nobody was asking"
Post by: Cheeetar on November 28, 2009, 03:19:39 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 28, 2009, 04:17:30 am
"George Washington was a president. He did not cut down a cherry tree."
he: pronoun. Refers to George Washington. So, George Washington is the referent.
...to try again, without that concept, I'm saying that Vector doesn't/cannot know what I meant when I said "Nobody's asking." That he is is putting words in my mouth.
Post by: Neruz on November 28, 2009, 04:35:22 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 28, 2009, 04:36:12 am
Post by: Neruz on November 28, 2009, 04:39:12 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 28, 2009, 04:43:00 am
(y/n)
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 28, 2009, 04:47:42 am
Post by: Cheeetar on November 28, 2009, 05:09:43 am
...to try again, without that concept, I'm saying that Vector doesn't/cannot know what I meant when I said "Nobody's asking." That he is is putting words in my mouth.
Where exactly did you say 'Nobody's asking' and where did he respond to it, and how does this relate at all to my post?
Post by: Vector on November 28, 2009, 05:18:30 am
...to try again, without that concept, I'm saying that Vector doesn't/cannot know what I meant when I said "Nobody's asking." That he is is putting words in my mouth.
I read that thing three or four times trying to figure out what you were talking about. Looked at all your recent questions, etc., etc. Do I really have to explicitly write out the thought process that informed me you were talking about your paper-question-thinger?
The reason why I ask, rather than just doing it, is that it is a royal pain to translate out of Vectorese and into the semi-comprehensible English slodge I normally speak/write in. It's even more of a pain to translate from slodge to Good English, especially when it comes to intricate thought processes.
And yes, before you look it up... slodge is a neologism. It means what it sounds like, and no, "sludge" would not do. I speak slodge, not sludge.
Bleh. Well, anyway. I'm too tired, now, but if you want me to do a write-up I'll take care of it in the morning.
Post by: Vector on November 28, 2009, 03:27:37 pm
So, I rethought, and realized that I exploded over what would have otherwise been a fairly innocuous statement. My apologies.
Spoiler: Reasons, for those who want them (click to show/hide)
So, I'm just not going to touch on that bit of your statements, because I'm too emotionally tied up in that sort of crapola to reason well about it. Someone else can look at what we've said and decide.
I think there are some other things you've said that were genuinely scummy, however. I don't have the time to look them up right now, but soon-ish I'll go trawl through and try to find out which of my opinions are emotional and which are logical.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 28, 2009, 09:29:26 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 28, 2009, 09:35:59 pm
Nobody's asking.
What, about your term paper that isn't a term paper?
This is the contradiction that Vector is claiming exists. but is really just him asserting I mean one thing and I thinking I meant something else.Nobody's asking.Nobody was asking about my "How to play mafia" is what I was saying, I think.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 28, 2009, 09:36:27 pm
Cobalt, you were on about 20 minutes ago, yet you decided not to answer my questions.I am not here primarily for mafia. it is the weekend.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 28, 2009, 11:05:22 pm
...if you don't know, then you don't know the contents of your own last argument against me, since you're taking it from Vector...which IS pretty scummyNobody's asking.
What, about your term paper that isn't a term paper?This is the contradiction that Vector is claiming exists. but is really just him asserting I mean one thing and I thinking I meant something else.Nobody's asking.Nobody was asking about my "How to play mafia" is what I was saying, I think.
I find the quotes have nothing to do with anything I was talking about. He was referring to you not remembering/saying elsewise to what you said earlier, and calling it inconsistent. You said it should be excused because you were tired. You then said he was being inconsistent when he said he didn't want to hurt your feelings. But, through all these mangled quotes and bullshit, I'm not even going to try finding out what he was originally quoting. Consider that point proven false or something.
I still don't see the hypocrisy, and I don't like you saying confusion is a scum tell. Right now, I am a bit confused because most of the things people are saying seem to have no connection between what they are quoting, and people bringing up all this unrelated shit.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 29, 2009, 12:55:29 am
Post by: Mephansteras on November 29, 2009, 01:04:44 pm
Meph and CobaltKobold voted SirBayer in quick succession. That makes me suspicious.
META:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
As far as I can tell, we all voted for him as soon as he claimed a different role then the one he claimed the day before. He put up a giant sign saying "I'm a lying scumbag!", so why is it suspicious that we suddenly voted for him?
Post by: ToonyMan on November 29, 2009, 01:25:41 pm
1. He's town being SirBayer like always.
2. He's scum and scum(you) are voting him to stiffen discussion. He could be doing this as a scum tactic(possibly).
Post by: ToonyMan on November 29, 2009, 01:44:44 pm
dakarian
Meph
CobaltKobold
This is my thoughts right now. Also, almost 100 pages! :-D
Post by: Vector on November 29, 2009, 03:34:46 pm
Spoiler: A detailed summary/accusation. Has links to the relevant posts. (click to show/hide)
So, my real allegations against CK:
1. WIFOM spreading and cautiousness.
2. Inconsistency about the way he fundamentally thinks about Mafia in two weeks' time.
3. Flimsy reasoning in a person who is known for his well-composed arguments.
4. Doesn't actually write out arguments (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg886287#msg886287); just puts up lines of quotes/random accusatory statements and expects us to interpret them for him. (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg885495#msg885495) Looks like scum trying to spread confusion.
5. Emotional ploys (not the one I thought I saw--the ones about headaches and short-term memory and all that)
6. Contradictions (First he can't remember BMIV, now he can, etc.)
Unvote.
CobaltKobold.
@Cheeetar: if you're still at all interested in what I was originally quoting, my statements were about CK's general attitude in BMIV, D4. He was one of the main proponents of the "people aren't scummy by virtue of their being alive later in the game" theory, which he conveniently forgets about when Bayer brings it up. Then later he finds precisely the quote he wants from BMIV, a game that he had theoretically completely forgotten.
Post by: Org on November 29, 2009, 03:49:06 pm
...
PANDAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 29, 2009, 07:08:13 pm
WHAT'S GOING ON
DID SOMEONE HAMMER?
Post by: Org on November 29, 2009, 07:13:10 pm
I'M HERE100 PAGES
WHAT'S GOING ON
DID SOMEONE HAMMER?
WHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Post by: Vector on November 29, 2009, 07:14:07 pm
I'M HERE
WHAT'S GOING ON
DID SOMEONE HAMMER?
No hammer. Just a couple of vote changes.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 29, 2009, 07:14:33 pm
I'M HERE
WHAT'S GOING ON
DID SOMEONE HAMMER?
Vote count please!
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 29, 2009, 07:24:30 pm
ToonyMan [1]: Eduren
Webadict [1]: SirBayer
SirBayer [3]: CobaltKobold, Mephansteras, Dakarian
CobaltKobold [2]: Cheeetar, Vector
Still alive: SirBayer, Cheeetar, Dakarian, SHAD0Wdump (INACTIVE, REPLACEMENT NEEDED), Vector, Mr.Person, Mephansteras, Eduren, ToonyMan, Webadict, Org, CobaltKobold, Rashilul, RedWarrior0
Blah blah tell me where I fucked up blah blah.
Post by: Neruz on November 29, 2009, 07:26:22 pm
Quote from: Pandarsenic
Blah blah tell me where I fucked up blah blah.
Thread is 97 Pages Long.
It's Day 3.
Post by: Mr.Person on November 29, 2009, 07:27:55 pm
Quote from: PandarsenicBlah blah tell me where I fucked up blah blah.
Thread is 97 Pages Long.
It's Day 3.
That's our fault, not Pandarsenic's.
How many votes is it to hammer?
Post by: ToonyMan on November 29, 2009, 07:29:41 pm
8 votes to hammer I suppose.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 29, 2009, 07:30:30 pm
Scumlist:
dakarian
Meph
CobaltKobold
eduren
I forgot eduren! :-D
Post by: Vector on November 29, 2009, 07:34:59 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 29, 2009, 07:35:55 pm
Post by: Vector on November 29, 2009, 07:36:45 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 29, 2009, 08:57:24 pm
Now to get back to business.
1. Meph.. LaL? I missed it, but I don't remember SirBayer LYING about his role. From what I've seen of it, he's so far claimed that his role protects the target, but roleblocks it the following night. Web hasn't said that he actually had used his Cheat ability so either he just didn't use it or was blocked: either way, no sign of a lie.
2. What catches my eye most about Vector's argument is the confusion based on what he can and can't remember. This post bugs me the most:
Allow me to elaborate. I use short-term memory for mafia games I'm in- it lets me switch more easily between them. It should also have quicker access, but I don't think the analogy between cache misses and longer-term memories is so good
Reading old games is different. I can collect someone's behaviour in short-term and then bin it into "town tell" or "scum tell" when they flip, because the game is done, it can be read quickly.
Nobody's asking.
It feels.. 'meh' to me honestly: a mess in an attempt to explain away an inconsistency. Besides, the argument is over mafia theory, which SHOULD hold over from one game to the next. How can you forget your own mafia theory? Why would you rather remember player meta over your theories on what is and isn't scummy play?
unvote
Vote CobaltKobald
Thus putting an FOS on SirBayer to hear the resolution of the doc issue.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 29, 2009, 09:34:29 pm
Quote from: Vector
2. Inconsistency about the way he fundamentally thinks about Mafia in two weeks' time.When they're the first two weeks I would expect this.
4. Doesn't actually write out arguments (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg886287#msg886287)...dakarian asked for where Bayer claimed doc, I pointed out the ones I could easily find (mainly going on "nuclear rocket surgeon" as search query)
...dak is being miraculously shortsighted. Here, dak. Here's his OTHER claim.
We can confirm two separate players in one move if you'll just acknowledge that I am, in fact, Chuck Norris, the role. I mean... I guess I could still be scum, but someone entirely different can confirm that, if there's a cop. Etc., etc.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 29, 2009, 09:36:02 pm
Quote
SirBayer [3]: CobaltKobold, Mephansteras, Dakarian
CobaltKobold [2]: Cheeetar, Vector
Quote from: dakarian
unvote
Vote CobaltKobald
Quote
SirBayer [2]: CobaltKobold, Mephansteras
CobaltKobold [3]: Cheeetar, Vector, Dakarian
Post by: ToonyMan on November 29, 2009, 09:37:03 pm
I think.
Post by: dakarian on November 29, 2009, 09:57:16 pm
So no, I don't think he was serious.
So if THAT is the 'lie' then I call it "reaching for any reason to kill someone." Meph, Cobalt, do you honestly believe that SirBayer, as scum, would do something like that? Remember, we're not after stuff we don't like, we're after SCUM.
@Cobalt
Yes, I am the one who holds 3rd vote in high regard. When I don't have another strong target I vote for them. Many times, the 3rd vote ends up being scum.
So, where's your vote on me?
Post by: Vector on November 29, 2009, 10:04:09 pm
Quote from: Vector2. Inconsistency about the way he fundamentally thinks about Mafia in two weeks' time.When they're the first two weeks I would expect this.
Let's see.
You played a BYOR and an SMOL, which took something like a month (guesstimate). Then you were nominated for best noob, since your performance was so good. Then you proceeded to scare the crap out of the (quite experienced) BMIV scumteam.
Whoops, I guess you just suddenly completely changed your mind about Mafia in those two-weeks-but-actually-maybe-a-month-and-a-half, huh? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
I consider "looking for any reason to kill someone" a scumtell, given the many times I have played scum and found it incredibly hard to find good reasons to lynch... so yes, Dakarian, I still think Bayer might well be scum.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 29, 2009, 10:25:45 pm
I've been looking at this different for a bit.
Let's just go along with the ifs for a bit.
IF Neruz is town. That would make Apostolic, dakarian, and Meph scum easily.
IF Neruz is scum. That would mean nothing. I don't know who the other scum would be. This is why I am very converned about this. I'm think Neruz might just be a Diakron....
I'm going to Unvote and vote dakarian.
You keep insisting you hate buddying, but you're doing that to me!
That was, I think, about the time that I gave him the "If you get everyone to admit that you are Chuck Norris, you will keep that role" aspect in KWN:DE. He went hogwild with it in that game and I think it pushed him forward here too.You're asking me to crossvote you? You continue to sound different to town-dakarian...
So no, I don't think he was serious.
So if THAT is the 'lie' then I call it "reaching for any reason to kill someone." Meph, Cobalt, do you honestly believe that SirBayer, as scum, would do something like that? Remember, we're not after stuff we don't like, we're after SCUM.
@Cobalt
Yes, I am the one who holds 3rd vote in high regard. When I don't have another strong target I vote for them. Many times, the 3rd vote ends up being scum.
So, where's your vote on me?
Quote from: Vector
Then you were nominated for best noob, since your performance was so good.I missed that, somehow. *seek* Ah, alexhans and zai, both in spoilers.
PPE:
Quote from: Vector
Warning: posting while caffeinated.Warning: caffeine is scum? Or: Please accept this post if not scummy, please ignore if scummy?
Post by: ToonyMan on November 29, 2009, 10:28:23 pm
Apostolic is dead so yeah.
Post by: dakarian on November 29, 2009, 10:29:52 pm
Fail attack on Toonyman. He's STILL on me and considers me a target. He hasn't stopped or dropped his vote?
Are you looking to get him to attack me more so I can leave you alone?
Btw, yes I'm asking you to cross vote me, or fling a FOS. You seem content to attack me as if I'm scum. "I'm different from town-dakarian?" Please explain how I'm supposed to act?
Post by: Vector on November 29, 2009, 10:33:47 pm
PPE:Quote from: VectorWarning: posting while caffeinated.Warning: caffeine is scum? Or: Please accept this post if not scummy, please ignore if scummy?
Nope. "If I sound absolutely batshit insane, please let me know so I can translate for myself when I stop being so wired."
If scummy, attack me. If not scummy, don't attack me. If incomprehensible, let me know because my processors are currently shot. I'll try again later once the wiring-juice is out of my system.
Question @Dakarian: why is failure to formalize opinionata in terms of an FoS scummy? I understand why lack of a vote might be scummy, but I can't say I fully understand the need for FoS. They're free (i.e. don't do anything, as far as I know) and implied in attacks, are they not?
Post by: dakarian on November 29, 2009, 10:41:10 pm
What I call him out is his use of softballing. He's 'attacking' but doesn't seem quite willing to declare me as scum for it. So far he's hit me with my own 3rd vote and Meta, both of which are very strong attacks.
Now he's done it to you and Toony. Soft "you are acting scummy" statements but little more content than that. You and I are attacking him. Toony isn't, but his comment was a "why aren't you trying harder to kill Dakarian?" His words are loaded but he's attacking from a very safe place.
It smells of "I have dirt on you, so back off!"
Post by: Mr.Person on November 29, 2009, 10:55:29 pm
One use of FoS is to imply "You're scum as well, but I'm staying on my target."
What I call him out is his use of softballing. He's 'attacking' but doesn't seem quite willing to declare me as scum for it. So far he's hit me with my own 3rd vote and Meta, both of which are very strong attacks.
Now he's done it to you and Toony. Soft "you are acting scummy" statements but little more content than that. You and I are attacking him. Toony isn't, but his comment was a "why aren't you trying harder to kill Dakarian?" His words are loaded but he's attacking from a very safe place.
It smells of "I have dirt on you, so back off!"
Fuuuuuuuck it. You might be scum, but CK's behavior is FAR worse. Unvote Dakarian and vote CobaltKobold. Soft attacks like the ones CK make are used exclusively by scum who are trying not to get blamed for getting a lynch going on what turns out to be a townie or are trying to stay under the radar. Townies have no reason to do either of those things, so I just can't see CK as town.
If you're going to attack someone, declare what you think their alignment is and vote accordingly. Anything else, like what CK did, is scummy.
Post by: webadict on November 29, 2009, 11:09:04 pm
Did people really start voting him for his role? ... SAY WHAT?!?1. I know I wasn't attacked last night because Panda told me in his PM that you were roleblocked tomorrow night from radiation sickness. He told me this specifically. You were not attacked in a way that I could defend from.
2. Yes, it's strange, but I assumed scum was going to try to knock you off. (If I attempt to protect you again tonight and you're not attacked, you'll die. So I don't think I'm going to do that.)
3. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Org: There's no point. He's accidentally roleblocked already. You should have known that...
There we go, just a bit later he goes into more detail.
dakarian is scummy. We know it, he knows it, we all know it. Why are we arguing over such stupid obviousness?
Funny how Mr.Person uses the arguments of the person he's voting for to switch to the person they're voting for despite hating the scum that gave him the reasons.
Post by: Vector on November 29, 2009, 11:22:39 pm
Did people really start voting him for his role? ... SAY WHAT?!?
I think people largely started voting him for spewing WIFOM and for some incomprehensible mess about Chuck Norris. It had nothing to do with what his actual role was, just a bunch of crapola about his lying about/joking about his role in a particularly odd way.
Currently, a couple of people are on him because he's a doctor who's still alive D3 (i.e. CobaltKobold and Dakarian).
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 29, 2009, 11:29:57 pm
And, yes, I would believe SirBayer as scum would do it. I've seen him as scum on IRC, he behaves in the same manner as scum as town.
...hmm, the "chuck norris e'erywhere" theory is actually backed up by the mod.
Quote from: Pandarsenic
No, he does this shit when we talk on AIM too. I'm so sick of Chuck Norris.
(alreadyvoting) SirBayer get out here and talk to us. Tell us why you told us to acknowledge you as Chuck Norris when you earlier claimed to be a Nuclear Rocket Surgeon.
Dakarian: Your arguments are weak, and frequently less-than-fully-reasoned. They are normally strong, and full of vim and vigor and REASONS. I'd need to scan to gather evidence...after chapter 7.
My vote is on SirBayer because he is acting scummy RIGHT NOW, and I don't wnt to take it from him until he's been shaken and some data fall out. My vote would be on webadict because I had a fair amount of evidence on him, but people seem to be giving him a pass(!), so I'll look around for some more scum in the meantime. Dakarian is the worst on this list, but he's third.
Quote from: Dakarian
One use of FoS is to imply "You're scum as well, but I'm staying on my target."This reads to me as "my use of FoS".
Quote from: Dakarian
What I call him out is his use of softballing. He's 'attacking' but doesn't seem quite willing to declare me as scum for it. So far he's hit me with my own 3rd vote and Meta, both of which are very strong attacks....third vote is strong TO YOU. I still don't think terribly much of it. Meta is meta- behavior is usually more important. That weak, unsupported arguments are uncharacteristic of you is a lot less important (but supportive of) that you are scum for making weak, unsupported arguments. (this is, in essence, the meta+claim that I have against webadict)
PPE: Mr. Person follows along sheepwise. Webadict attacks for it...and vector puts words in my mouth.
Post by: webadict on November 29, 2009, 11:43:02 pm
Yeah well they can go through me then.Did people really start voting him for his role? ... SAY WHAT?!?
I think people largely started voting him for spewing WIFOM and for some incomprehensible mess about Chuck Norris. It had nothing to do with what his actual role was, just a bunch of crapola about his lying about/joking about his role in a particularly odd way.
Currently, a couple of people are on him because he's a doctor who's still alive D3 (i.e. CobaltKobold and Dakarian).
Starting with CK:
Toonyman, that answers my question. Dakarian, I was mainly asking what had occurred with it, not casting suspicion, yet.You vote for me if you're going to vote for SirBayer. His role does as claimed, you stupid lying scumbag. Why not take this opportunity to spread WIFOM, eh? Nah, screw you.
And, yes, I would believe SirBayer as scum would do it. I've seen him as scum on IRC, he behaves in the same manner as scum as town.
...hmm, the "chuck norris e'erywhere" theory is actually backed up by the mod.Quote from: PandarsenicNo, he does this shit when we talk on AIM too. I'm so sick of Chuck Norris.
(alreadyvoting) SirBayer get out here and talk to us. Tell us why you told us to acknowledge you as Chuck Norris when you earlier claimed to be a Nuclear Rocket Surgeon.
Dakarian: Your arguments are weak, and frequently less-than-fully-reasoned. They are normally strong, and full of vim and vigor and REASONS. I'd need to scan to gather evidence...after chapter 7.
My vote is on SirBayer because he is acting scummy RIGHT NOW, and I don't wnt to take it from him until he's been shaken and some data fall out. My vote would be on webadict because I had a fair amount of evidence on him, but people seem to be giving him a pass(!), so I'll look around for some more scum in the meantime. Dakarian is the worst on this list, but he's third.Quote from: DakarianOne use of FoS is to imply "You're scum as well, but I'm staying on my target."This reads to me as "my use of FoS".Quote from: DakarianWhat I call him out is his use of softballing. He's 'attacking' but doesn't seem quite willing to declare me as scum for it. So far he's hit me with my own 3rd vote and Meta, both of which are very strong attacks....third vote is strong TO YOU. I still don't think terribly much of it. Meta is meta- behavior is usually more important. That weak, unsupported arguments are uncharacteristic of you is a lot less important (but supportive of) that you are scum for making weak, unsupported arguments. (this is, in essence, the meta+claim that I have against webadict)
PPE: Mr. Person follows along sheepwise. Webadict attacks for it...and vector puts words in my mouth.
You're going after the weakest target. REALLY? Is that your best try at trying to fakehunt? At least TRY to go for someone legitimate. This, as it stands, makes you scummy AND a terrible liar.
Seriously, try a little bit harder. You have the worst evidence for voting.
Post by: Vector on November 29, 2009, 11:50:10 pm
PPE: Mr. Person follows along sheepwise. Webadict attacks for it...and vector puts words in my mouth.
GRARGH!!
Did people really start voting him for his role? ... SAY WHAT?!?
I think people largely started voting him for spewing WIFOM and for some incomprehensible mess about Chuck Norris. It had nothing to do with what his actual role was, just a bunch of crapola about his lying about/joking about his role in a particularly odd way.
Currently, a couple of people are on him because he's a doctor who's still alive D3 (i.e. CobaltKobold and Dakarian).
Sirbayer's gotten a few posts which were chock-full of scum and I don't think there're two jesters. IF you want frosting on that cake, he's claimed doc and survived a few nights with that claim (take with salt) and -he has no leads, and I hear confusion is a scumtell.
All right.
Things I said:
(1) People are largely voting him (I think) for WIFOM + confusing behavior. I used to belong to this group of people. (Set A)
(2) Some people are also voting him because he claimed doctor and is not dead. I never belonged to this group of people. (Set B)
Set B contains set A. It is a proper inclusion, since I am/was not voting him for reason 2. You are in set B. The quote above tells me so.
Better?
Post by: webadict on November 29, 2009, 11:58:59 pm
Post by: Eduren on November 30, 2009, 12:12:59 am
That said, time to start reading again.
Post by: dakarian on November 30, 2009, 01:31:57 am
Dakarian: Your arguments are weak, and frequently less-than-fully-reasoned. They are normally strong, and full of vim and vigor and REASONS. I'd need to scan to gather evidence...after chapter 7.Last time I heard a statement like this was with Mr.Person and what came out after that scan was a mass of misreadings and flat out wrongness.
Quote
I'm the worst but I'm third? How does that work?
My vote is on SirBayer because he is acting scummy RIGHT NOW, and I don't wnt to take it from him until he's been shaken and some data fall out. My vote would be on webadict because I had a fair amount of evidence on him, but people seem to be giving him a pass(!), so I'll look around for some more scum in the meantime. Dakarian is the worst on this list, but he's third.
So the only thing you're after him for right now is the Chuck Norris thing (since that's the only thing you asked him about)? Wouldn't that work better if you FoS HIM and, say, vote me or Webadict?
You say you have evidence on Webadict.. mind bringing that out?
You say I'm worst... I imagine that'll come from that scan you're preparing.
Which again makes me wonder, if me and web are fully and truly scummy to you but SirBayer is just getting pressured, why are you letting two people who truly ARE scum to you pass just to go after a Maybe? Furthermore, why have you not attacked me very much until AFTER I voted for you? If I looked so badly and web seemed so unlynchable wouldn't I bet the next direct target?
Quote
Quote from: DakarianOne use of FoS is to imply "You're scum as well, but I'm staying on my target."This reads to me as "my use of FoS".
And the above doesn't sound so well when you just FoSed me, saying that you would vote for me but already have others you'd rather target.
Quote
...third vote is strong TO YOU. I still don't think terribly much of it. Meta is meta- behavior is usually more important. That weak, unsupported arguments are uncharacteristic of you is a lot less important (but supportive of) that you are scum for making weak, unsupported arguments. (this is, in essence, the meta+claim that I have against webadict)
So if you don't believe in the 3rd vote, why, OH WHY did you use that as your opening attack on me? Why did it seem so important that you had to mention that, yes, I hit 3rd vote twice when you don't even see it as a scumtell? Why did I have to strike back at you in order to get the "rest" of your argument?
And why does it seem like you'd so much rather attack me with everything you can pull up rather than actually answer to the charge I placed against you?
Allow me to elaborate. I use short-term memory for mafia games I'm in- it lets me switch more easily between them. It should also have quicker access, but I don't think the analogy between cache misses and longer-term memories is so good
Reading old games is different. I can collect someone's behaviour in short-term and then bin it into "town tell" or "scum tell" when they flip, because the game is done, it can be read quickly.
Nobody's asking.
It feels.. 'meh' to me honestly: a mess in an attempt to explain away an inconsistency. Besides, the argument is over mafia theory, which SHOULD hold over from one game to the next. How can you forget your own mafia theory? Why would you rather remember player meta over your theories on what is and isn't scummy play?
Post by: Mr.Person on November 30, 2009, 02:26:51 am
PPE: Mr. Person follows along sheepwise. Webadict attacks for it...and vector puts words in my mouth.
Actually, I was already thinking you were scum when I read your post. The fact Dakarian beat me to the punch means nothing.
Actually, I almost didn't vote you because of my thoughts on Dakarian and the fact he voted you too. However, that's WIFOM, and I vowed to never, ever, let myself be WIFOM'd. I've decided to take you both separately. Dakarian seems scummy, but you, CK, scream scummy so loud I can hear you from the moon. The fact that you haven't even tried to defend yourself makes it all worse. Hell, all you've done is weakly say I'm scummy, which is the exact reason I'm voting you.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 30, 2009, 02:28:57 am
I vowed to never, ever, let myself be WIFOM'd.
Not to butt into a game I'm modding but are you sure you're playing Mafia?
Post by: Mr.Person on November 30, 2009, 02:35:28 am
I vowed to never, ever, let myself be WIFOM'd.
Not to butt into a game I'm modding but are you sure you're playing Mafia?
I didn't mean to imply I was perfect, but yeah, I take a hard anti-WIFOM policy.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 30, 2009, 03:01:50 am
laughed so hard I snorted scrambled egg out my nose. <.<
Post by: Mr.Person on November 30, 2009, 03:25:06 am
brb
laughed so hard I snorted scrambled egg out my nose. <.<
You may want to see a doctor about that, that sounds unhealthy.
Post by: webadict on November 30, 2009, 11:47:56 am
Perhaps tomorrow dakarian... Perhaps tomorrow...
Post by: Mephansteras on November 30, 2009, 01:19:50 pm
[snip] His role does as claimed [snip]
Ok, so we do have confirmation that his role blocked you. I was waiting on that, although since it sounds like the whole Chuck Norris thing was an odd joke from another game I guess it doesn't matter as much.
unvote Sirbayer
As to why he's still alive, I'm guessing it's because he's a doctor role that has a negative effect on a missed protect.
I'm not going to vote dakarian, since I have evidence that he's town.
So...time to look at CobaltKobold a bit harder.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 30, 2009, 02:58:05 pm
Can we lynch one of dakarian or CobaltKobold right now?
This.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 30, 2009, 02:59:34 pm
I'M HERE
WHAT'S GOING ON
DID SOMEONE HAMMER?
Vote count please!
This.
Post by: webadict on November 30, 2009, 03:04:03 pm
He's not going to vote dakarian because he knows he's town, but he's not going to vote CobaltKobold, because he doesn't have enough info.[snip] His role does as claimed [snip]
Ok, so we do have confirmation that his role blocked you. I was waiting on that, although since it sounds like the whole Chuck Norris thing was an odd joke from another game I guess it doesn't matter as much.
unvote Sirbayer
As to why he's still alive, I'm guessing it's because he's a doctor role that has a negative effect on a missed protect.
I'm not going to vote dakarian, since I have evidence that he's town.
So...time to look at CobaltKobold a bit harder.
Two different situations; One very similar answer.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 30, 2009, 03:10:49 pm
Post by: webadict on November 30, 2009, 03:12:33 pm
I'm not voting CobaltKobold until I look at him more closely. Are you really complaining because I'm not just jumping on a bandwagon??No, I'm complaining because you have the time to reply to that message, but not the time to make even a cursory glance at CobaltKobold's post.
I daresay, what's taking you so long?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 30, 2009, 04:32:14 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 30, 2009, 04:34:29 pm
Where were you, Webadict? You disappeared when most of the discussion was going on, then appeared just now to prod the bandwagon along.
Holiday.
Break.
Mr. Hypocrite.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 30, 2009, 04:36:31 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 30, 2009, 04:38:29 pm
How so on the hypocrite thing, and where did he say he was having a holiday?
You weren't of major concern in discussion, moreso you did very little.
I had holiday break also, but I happened to have had internet connection and a lot of free time.
Post by: Org on November 30, 2009, 04:38:51 pm
snip- Everyone, just want to let you know, I will be on my holiday break this week. -snip
Post by: ToonyMan on November 30, 2009, 04:39:48 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 30, 2009, 04:41:05 pm
Just stop.
Post by: Org on November 30, 2009, 04:43:41 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 30, 2009, 04:45:20 pm
Post by: Org on November 30, 2009, 04:46:33 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on November 30, 2009, 04:47:52 pm
Screw you Org. I was about to post a 100 page thing that was more awesome than your stupid quote.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say this is a joke.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 30, 2009, 04:49:07 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 30, 2009, 05:37:13 pm
Request: A mod-kill of Org
Request: Mod Kill TOonyRequest: Cut that shit out.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 30, 2009, 05:43:46 pm
I'M HERE
WHAT'S GOING ON
DID SOMEONE HAMMER?
Vote count please!
This.
This please.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 30, 2009, 05:46:45 pm
Dakarian [2]: Rashilul, ToonyMan
ToonyMan [1]: Eduren
Webadict [1]: SirBayer
SirBayer [2]: CobaltKobold, Dakarian
CobaltKobold [4]: Cheeetar, Vector, Mr.Person, Webadict
Still alive: SirBayer, Cheeetar, Dakarian, SHAD0Wdump (INACTIVE, REPLACEMENT NEEDED), Vector, Mr.Person, Mephansteras, Eduren, ToonyMan, Webadict, Org, CobaltKobold, Rashilul, RedWarrior0
Blah blah whiner blah I probably messed something up blah blah.
Dakarian did not unvote properly.
Post by: Vector on November 30, 2009, 05:58:15 pm
1 + 1 = 3.
1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 2.
It huuurrrrrrrrts.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 30, 2009, 06:34:47 pm
Post by: dakarian on November 30, 2009, 06:36:39 pm
Vote CobaltKobold
That's L-2
Post by: SirBayer on November 30, 2009, 07:31:56 pm
Where have I been? I've been on vacation. Like I said in at least every other fucking thread I've been participating in. Repeatedly. Loudly. This isn't that hard. Panda could have told you... I don't know, y'know, why he didn't.
(Fake-edit: Apparently I forgot to inform him. But I KNOW I told Dakarian. WHERE WERE YOU WHEN I NEEDED YOU THE MOST)
Why aren't I dead after doc claim? Well, Meph actually ninja'd me more or less. If I miss, I roleblock. Webadict never directly confirmed, but he stated that my role works, just a few pages back. I don't care to fish that up, sorry.
As I've already expressed my suspicions, I'm Unvoting Webadict and Voting CobaltKobold. No point repeating myself or anyone else.
That's L-1, unless Dakarian is a retard, which I highly doubt.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 30, 2009, 07:34:39 pm
All right, after reading through the last 10 pages or so again I'm going to vote CobaltKobold for being very weak in his arguments and generally just appearing to be helpful without really trying to be helpful.
Unvote SirBayer
Vote CobaltKobold
That's L-2
HHAAHHA.
You did the same thing AGAIN. First SirBayer, now CobaltKobold! XD
Within two minutes!
Post by: ToonyMan on November 30, 2009, 07:35:53 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 30, 2009, 07:36:40 pm
1 + 1 = 4.SHUT YOUR FACE I JUST FORGOT TO CHANGE IT.
1 + 1 = 3.
1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 2.
It huuurrrrrrrrts.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 30, 2009, 07:38:35 pm
ToonyMan [1]: Eduren
SirBayer [1]: CobaltKobold
CobaltKobold [7]: Cheeetar, Vector, Mr.Person, Webadict, Mephansteras, Dakarian, SirBayer
COBALTKOBOLD IS AT L-1
Still alive: SirBayer, Cheeetar, Dakarian, SHAD0Wdump (INACTIVE, REPLACEMENT NEEDED), Vector, Mr.Person, Mephansteras, Eduren, ToonyMan, Webadict, Org, CobaltKobold, Rashilul, RedWarrior0
Post by: ToonyMan on November 30, 2009, 07:39:28 pm
Which means your scum. Or
So ah, is the last scum going to hammer or what?
Post by: SirBayer on November 30, 2009, 07:58:35 pm
I resent being called a shit-head.
Post by: Eduren on November 30, 2009, 07:58:49 pm
Mr. Person: What happened to me being too dangerous to let live?
Post by: Mephansteras on November 30, 2009, 08:00:30 pm
All right, after reading through the last 10 pages or so again I'm going to vote CobaltKobold for being very weak in his arguments and generally just appearing to be helpful without really trying to be helpful.Unvote SirBayer
Vote CobaltKobold
That's L-2
HHAAHHA.
You did the same thing AGAIN. First SirBayer, now CobaltKobold! XD
Within two minutes!
That's really kind of creepy.
Post by: Org on November 30, 2009, 08:10:10 pm
And by vreepy, you mean scummy, MEPH?All right, after reading through the last 10 pages or so again I'm going to vote CobaltKobold for being very weak in his arguments and generally just appearing to be helpful without really trying to be helpful.Unvote SirBayer
Vote CobaltKobold
That's L-2
HHAAHHA.
You did the same thing AGAIN. First SirBayer, now CobaltKobold! XD
Within two minutes!
That's really kind of creepy.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 30, 2009, 08:24:03 pm
A number 2?
I resent being called a shit-head.
'Cause he's the easiest target in the world,
1. He's town being SirBayer like always.
2. He's scum and scum(you) are voting him to stiffen discussion. He could be doing this as a scum tactic(possibly).
You have a very strange mind.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 30, 2009, 08:51:09 pm
That's really kind of creepy.And by vreepy, you mean scummy, MEPH?
No, I just honestly find that a bit creepy.
Post by: dakarian on November 30, 2009, 08:55:12 pm
Note that the vote I did was due to me failling to unvote properly (as Pandar mentioned). I was technically the 3rd vote.
As for why, my personal statements against Cobalt started here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg892459#msg892459) which was prompted by Vector's analysis of him a few posts back. After the linked post, me and Cobalt fought it out-the argument can be seen in the posts after the link. Thus, along with Confusion and a faulty defense his attack singed less of "Dakarian is scum" and more of "get off of me!"
Post by: Org on November 30, 2009, 08:59:03 pm
Duly noted.That's really kind of creepy.And by vreepy, you mean scummy, MEPH?
No, I just honestly find that a bit creepy.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 30, 2009, 10:50:56 pm
Can we lynch one of dakarian or CobaltKobold right now?
This.
If you want either Cobalt or Dakarian being lynched, why aren't you voting for Cobalt and therefore getting lynched? Afraid of seeming scummy by being the hammer vote?
Post by: ToonyMan on November 30, 2009, 10:53:49 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 30, 2009, 10:54:33 pm
Oh and,
Scumlist:
dakarian
Meph
CobaltKobold
eduren
I forgot eduren! :-D
Post by: SirBayer on November 30, 2009, 10:58:08 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 30, 2009, 10:59:58 pm
Only scum makes lists of players?
Only scum don't share their thoughts?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 30, 2009, 11:01:23 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 30, 2009, 11:05:02 pm
eduren and Cheeetar are scum.
CobaltKobold is town. He was low on my list anyway.
Scumlist:
dakarian
Meph
Cheeetar
eduren
Post by: Cheeetar on November 30, 2009, 11:06:57 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 30, 2009, 11:07:49 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on November 30, 2009, 11:25:09 pm
Be back in 16 hours...
Post by: SirBayer on December 01, 2009, 12:26:40 am
No but uh seriously.
I don't know if it's just what you do, Toony, but it's definitely in my limited experience a bad idea to hold off lynching one scum for another. You have Cobalt marked on the list. Four people on that list out of fourteen scum. Just lynch her and we'll discuss Dakarian tomorrow. Good?
Post by: Mr.Person on December 01, 2009, 12:50:32 am
Unvote CobaltKobold so nobody hammers. This day is continuing.
Post by: webadict on December 01, 2009, 01:14:05 am
Where were you, Webadict? You disappeared when most of the discussion was going on, then appeared just now to prod the bandwagon along.lol, most of us Americans celebrate this thing called Thanksgivings. It might be extremely obscure in whatever cuture you come from, but to us working class, it's basically a 20-hour work weekend, if you're lucky and only work one-and-a-half of those days.
So, instead of taking my words and throwing them in a blender and trying to feed them to everyone, try looking at that logically!
Basically, he had the time to post that he doesn't think someone is suspicious and that he should not vote someone who he knows is town, which is basically saying he's blatantly lurking. Look elsewhere to prove it: He's got time for Paranormal, but not here, not even a few minutes.
I honestly think you do this on purpose...
Post by: SirBayer on December 01, 2009, 01:15:58 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 03:10:02 am
Oh. Hmm. Bandwagon.
I clearly should have done that, instead of sleeping through Monday.Where were you, Webadict? You disappeared when most of the discussion was going on, then appeared just now to prod the bandwagon along.
Holiday.
Break.
Mr. Hypocrite.
Any demands that might need meeting while I read through thread and compose myself and my arguments?
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 03:19:58 am
unvote Sirbayer while I make my longer read. Presently, it is plausible that he was joking with the Norris thing- the mod supported this conclusion, even. He claimed early, at webadict's behest...a meh.
(not voting until my large scan is done)
Dakarian is using crap arguments, not bothering to read my posts responding to him, then having the gall to say that I did not do as he asked, as the most recent example of illogic. This is not town-dakarian.
Webadict is starting to look less metascummy- with his computer back, he is making longer posts at least- but is still throwing off tells in flashing neon. Here is the egregious example that sticks in my mind:
There's also the willingness to completely toss all the good town PRs in the grave.Webadict. I'm pretty sure for some reason I found him scum earlier, and calling for a MC early is fishy.WOW. Go shoot yourself.
Or give some real reasons.Yeah, I usually don't. But in a set-up like this, it's more helpful to do that.A MC? Usually webadict never calls for a MC.They keep their old roleMan, screw you.
They cannot repeat the REPLACE action
They gain his one-shot revive if it was not used by Leafsnail originally.
I'm calling for a Massclaim, because this is ridiculous.
But, dakarian is afraid that I'll catch him, so he's hiding behind his little excuse. There's no point in hiding behind power roles because, get this, we can win WITHOUT THEM! The point of the game is to LYNCH the Mafia, not out-PR them.
dakarian is ridiculously suspicious, and I'm glad there's enough people not here to not actually debate it.
Post by: dakarian on December 01, 2009, 04:38:30 am
Quote
Dakarian is using crap arguments, not bothering to read my posts responding to him, then having the gall to say that I did not do as he asked,
Ok then, when I say this:
It feels.. 'meh' to me honestly: a mess in an attempt to explain away an inconsistency. Besides, the argument is over mafia theory, which SHOULD hold over from one game to the next. How can you forget your own mafia theory? Why would you rather remember player meta over your theories on what is and isn't scummy play?
How is THIS answering the question?
rgh, forgot to append. For someone who regards the third vote as a scumtell you sure do it a lot.QuoteSirBayer [3]: CobaltKobold, Mephansteras, Dakarian
CobaltKobold [2]: Cheeetar, VectorQuote from: dakarianunvote
Vote CobaltKobaldQuoteSirBayer [2]: CobaltKobold, Mephansteras
CobaltKobold [3]: Cheeetar, Vector, Dakarian
Last I checked, replying to a question with an attack is deflection, NOT an answer.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 06:18:10 am
Quote from: dakarian
You say you have evidence on Webadict.. mind bringing that out?Lessee, pull this out of the webadict tab. More when I finish through thread (49/102) Old webadict sum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg855250#msg855250 . There is also some in the prior post which is fairly juicy.
I'm fairly sure I've linked my evidence many times. It's unlike you to miss details like that. You've been doing it all game. But more on that when I finish- there's a wall of it on you. You're also a bit higher on the typo scale than usual.
Answers to questions(because yes, they're something I should deal with before I post ten walls)
Quote from: dakarian
How can you forget your own mafia theory?"Doctor is alive= scum" is a case I have encountered...twice now? It seemed like something to attack at the time, and I died shortly thereafter if I remember correctly (semi-unlikely). The rest of my mafia theory is based on things that have come up in basically all of the beginner and paranormal and whatnot games, so more instances helps me remember them. So, I forget my mafia theory in instances where it does not come up a lot, like other things I forget. "how"...well, I'm not a neuroscientist.
Quote from: dakarian
Why would you rather remember player meta over your theories on what is and isn't scummy play?It's not a case of 'rather'. Meta is how people behave, and easily sticks with characterisations of them in memory, aside from the face. Again, something that comes up every single time someone posts, unlike the doctor case.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 07:19:36 am
Post by: Cheeetar on December 01, 2009, 07:31:34 am
Basically, he had the time to post that he doesn't think someone is suspicious and that he should not vote someone who he knows is town, which is basically saying he's blatantly lurking. Look elsewhere to prove it: He's got time for Paranormal, but not here, not even a few minutes.
I honestly think you do this on purpose...
It's good to see you provide reasoning. Try to continue doing so.
Post by: dakarian on December 01, 2009, 10:11:28 am
I do that all the time. Why AREN'T I public enemy #1 to your eyes right from day 1?
Lessee, pull this out of the webadict tab. More when I finish through thread (49/102) Old webadict sum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg855250#msg855250 . There is also some in the prior post which is fairly juicy.You posted the link once that I spotted so far. Yes, it was to my post about it on Day 3. Yes, I missed it since it came in on turkey day and was right below a mass of quotes.
I'm fairly sure I've linked my evidence many times. It's unlike you to miss details like that. You've been doing it all game. But more on that when I finish- there's a wall of it on you. You're also a bit higher on the typo scale than usual.
Quote
Answers to questions(because yes, they're something I should deal with before I post ten walls)Quote from: dakarianHow can you forget your own mafia theory?"Doctor is alive= scum" is a case I have encountered...twice now? It seemed like something to attack at the time, and I died shortly thereafter if I remember correctly (semi-unlikely). The rest of my mafia theory is based on things that have come up in basically all of the beginner and paranormal and whatnot games, so more instances helps me remember them. So, I forget my mafia theory in instances where it does not come up a lot, like other things I forget. "how"...well, I'm not a neuroscientist.Quote from: dakarianWhy would you rather remember player meta over your theories on what is and isn't scummy play?It's not a case of 'rather'. Meta is how people behave, and easily sticks with characterisations of them in memory, aside from the face. Again, something that comes up every single time someone posts, unlike the doctor case.
That answer seems reasonable. There's still the question whether you are trying to cover up a mistake. However, that's a small thing compared to these matters:
1. Why is it that it that when someone threw an attack that you seem to actually have a decent answer for your first instinct is to try to get them killed rather than actually answer them?
2. Why did you get into a poking match with just about everyone that spoke against you, including trying to prod Toonyman to keep attacking me, rather than answering the charge?
3. Why, after I focused on you, did you seem content to try to get me lynched when I was closest to being lynched but once everyone focused on you the answers are quick and fast? For that matter, why did it take L-1 to bring it out?
4. You say you have a "wall" showing that I'm not acting like 'town-Dakarian'. I'm still waiting for it and I'm hoping its not an overgrown spelling and grammar check. One link isn't "multiple times" and missing said one link isn't exactly "unlike me".
5. Since I had to repost my argument 3 times to get an answer, does Vector need to post his 2 more times to get his?
Quote
1. WIFOM spreading and cautiousness.
3. Flimsy reasoning in a person who is known for his well-composed arguments.
5. Emotional ploys (not the one I thought I saw--the ones about headaches and short-term memory and all that)
6. Contradictions (First he can't remember BMIV, now he can, etc.)
I removed 2 because you answered it.
I removed 4 because you quasianswered it, but also because of meta. You had gone quote heavy in BM4 as well. It's a Null Tell though since we don't know how you act as scum, but it's not a scum-tell.
The other questions though, both Vector's and mine, need to be answered.
Sidenote: Vector is the one arguing about your actual theory reversal. I brought up the oddness of your defense itself.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 10:33:57 am
Quote from: dakarian
I do that all the time. Why AREN'T I public enemy #1 to your eyes right from day 1?No, it's a crap argument to ask me to do it, and then say I never responded. There are half a dozenish cases of this on you (not specifically against me) or so, and counting while I read.
You aren't public enemy 1 because, well, at the time webby was more scummy. Presently his file is scummy but less so than yours (these files will be posted ...sometime soon, anyway, 80/103)
Quote
1. Why is it that it that when someone threw an attack that you seem to actually have a decent answer for your first instinct is to try to get them killed rather than actually answer them?Be more specific, please.
Quote
2. Why did you get into a poking match with just about everyone that spoke against you, including trying to prod Toonyman to keep attacking me, rather than answering the charge?I already explained the toony bit- I was uncertain in the mass of this thread what had happened to this claim. It's been brought up a few times since, as I'm finding as I reread.
For the rest, finding fault with an argument against me is the best way to deal with it- and not answering it is far worse. If you mean something else by poking match, you'll need to specify.
Quote
3. Why, after I focused on you, did you seem content to try to get me lynched when I was closest to being lynched but once everyone focused on you the answers are quick and fast? For that matter, why did it take L-1 to bring it out?I have had a few bad experiences with quicklynches. Answering things are more likely to get me the time that this uber-scumfind is taking. scum.
Quote
4. You say you have a "wall" showing that I'm not acting like 'town-Dakarian'. I'm still waiting for it and I'm hoping its not an overgrown spelling and grammar check. One link isn't "multiple times" and missing said one link isn't exactly "unlike me".I've been rereading the thread (and eating/showering) for the past eight hours. It's coming, along with ones on my other prime suspects, and the conclusions.
Quote
Since I had to repost my argument 3 times to get an answer, does Vector need to post his 2 more times to get his?No.
Vector's questions.
Quote
1. WIFOM spreading and cautiousness.There is one point of alleged wifom- the doc is alive thing. Presently, I agree, and sirbayer is actually coming up pretty...sirbayer in this scan.
Quote
3. Flimsy reasoning in a person who is known for his well-composed arguments.I really shouldn't have posted on holiday, I think. I was basically pointing out each scummy thing as it floated by, and...that doesn't look very town. (This game has rather absurd levels of the stuff.) So, now that holiday's over, back to being more serious.
Quote
5. Emotional ploys (not the one I thought I saw--the ones about headaches and short-term memory and all that)I view them more as that I was explaining why I did things. If you want to look, I generally try to explain why I do things.[/quote]
6. Contradictions (First he can't remember BMIV, now he can, etc.)[/quote]I read BM4. There is, in fact, no claim of "doctor is still alive" that I can find. The argument that I appear to have been caught in there is someone "calling doctor lucky" which I thought fell close to "praising the doctor". (The other three games I've been in that are over, KWN/SMOL/BYOR, had no doctors.)
Now, notice:
Quote from: vector
ALL of those are dependent on this alleged and in fact false claim about BM4. and...guess what? That's also the basis on which you voted me!
1. WIFOM spreading and cautiousness.
2. Inconsistency about the way he fundamentally thinks about Mafia in two weeks' time.
5. Emotional ploys (not the one I thought I saw--the ones about headaches and short-term memory and all that)
6. Contradictions (First he can't remember BMIV, now he can, etc.)
Allow me to elaborate. I use short-term memory for mafia games I'm in- it lets me switch more easily between them. It should also have quicker access, but I don't think the analogy between cache misses and longer-term memories is so good
Reading old games is different. I can collect someone's behaviour in short-term and then bin it into "town tell" or "scum tell" when they flip, because the game is done, it can be read quickly.
Nobody's asking.
It feels.. 'meh' to me honestly: a mess in an attempt to explain away an inconsistency. Besides, the argument is over mafia theory, which SHOULD hold over from one game to the next. How can you forget your own mafia theory? Why would you rather remember player meta over your theories on what is and isn't scummy play?
unvote
Vote CobaltKobald
Thus putting an FOS on SirBayer to hear the resolution of the doc issue.
I feel like I pulled the bottom card out of the house of cards that is standing against me.
Post by: webadict on December 01, 2009, 11:10:46 am
Oh, you mean when I reworded this post?Basically, he had the time to post that he doesn't think someone is suspicious and that he should not vote someone who he knows is town, which is basically saying he's blatantly lurking. Look elsewhere to prove it: He's got time for Paranormal, but not here, not even a few minutes.
I honestly think you do this on purpose...
It's good to see you provide reasoning. Try to continue doing so.
Which I posted a few posts before you couldn't understand basic English and then attacked me for a terrible reason?He's not going to vote dakarian because he knows he's town, but he's not going to vote CobaltKobold, because he doesn't have enough info.[snip] His role does as claimed [snip]
Ok, so we do have confirmation that his role blocked you. I was waiting on that, although since it sounds like the whole Chuck Norris thing was an odd joke from another game I guess it doesn't matter as much.
unvote Sirbayer
As to why he's still alive, I'm guessing it's because he's a doctor role that has a negative effect on a missed protect.
I'm not going to vote dakarian, since I have evidence that he's town.
So...time to look at CobaltKobold a bit harder.
Two different situations; One very similar answer.
Yeah, I'll remember that you need to learn things twice before they stick into your brain. Kk, thanks bye.
By the way, I'm saying that you're dumb and that you won't remember unless I say it twice.
Crap arguments like this-If the doctor is scum, then vote me. Okay? Because right now, there's no reason to not do so, according to your information. And, since no one is voting for me, it would give support to your own, albeit terribly inaccurate, theories.Quote from: dakarianYou say you have evidence on Webadict.. mind bringing that out?Lessee, pull this out of the webadict tab. More when I finish through thread (49/102) Old webadict sum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg855250#msg855250 . There is also some in the prior post which is fairly juicy.
I'm fairly sure I've linked my evidence many times. It's unlike you to miss details like that. You've been doing it all game. But more on that when I finish- there's a wall of it on you. You're also a bit higher on the typo scale than usual.
Answers to questions(because yes, they're something I should deal with before I post ten walls)Quote from: dakarianHow can you forget your own mafia theory?"Doctor is alive= scum" is a case I have encountered...twice now? It seemed like something to attack at the time, and I died shortly thereafter if I remember correctly (semi-unlikely). The rest of my mafia theory is based on things that have come up in basically all of the beginner and paranormal and whatnot games, so more instances helps me remember them. So, I forget my mafia theory in instances where it does not come up a lot, like other things I forget. "how"...well, I'm not a neuroscientist.Quote from: dakarianWhy would you rather remember player meta over your theories on what is and isn't scummy play?It's not a case of 'rather'. Meta is how people behave, and easily sticks with characterisations of them in memory, aside from the face. Again, something that comes up every single time someone posts, unlike the doctor case.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 12:00:05 pm
Found unanswered question: at the time, webadict was primary target. Sirbayer is the "attacking now to see if scum falls out" (I appear to not be good at persuading people to lynch) and then, Dakarian is the worst of the rest (at that time)- but, being below SirBayer and Webadict, is third in line, while being worst of "and the rest".Dakarian: Your arguments are weak, and frequently less-than-fully-reasoned. They are normally strong, and full of vim and vigor and REASONS. I'd need to scan to gather evidence...after chapter 7.Last time I heard a statement like this was with Mr.Person and what came out after that scan was a mass of misreadings and flat out wrongness.QuoteI'm the worst but I'm third? How does that work?
My vote is on SirBayer because he is acting scummy RIGHT NOW, and I don't wnt to take it from him until he's been shaken and some data fall out. My vote would be on webadict because I had a fair amount of evidence on him, but people seem to be giving him a pass(!), so I'll look around for some more scum in the meantime. Dakarian is the worst on this list, but he's third.
to answer webadict's current question-1. not voting anyone 'til I'm done with these mondoscans 2. webadict, you are no longer the worst thing out there, for all that your early meta was screaming otherwise.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 12:15:33 pm
flimsy argument-attributable to rvs.My favorite Mafia buddy would definitely be Janus, since he was a Cabal Archmage and managed to convince Kirby to Justicar the wrong person, which was beautiful and single-handedly won us the game.
I'm not sure if he's in this though.He is not, thankfully, as my j key is currently the one giving me trouble.
Which key, k?
Mr.Person, scum tend to at least get through the RVS before they start failing to read closely at the text. Or did someone Bus your J key with a K key?
Feels bloodthirsty (lynch anyone) in rvs. (supported later: see the hopping on bandwagons with Meph.)
Passiveness.. from Webadict!?This is...VERY not Dakarian.
Unpossible
Want something real?Staged fight?
dakarian. That's something real, you stupid moron.
That's a vote. You're passive and unemotional.
Stagedfight.People truly underestimate RVS.Duh, saying nothing important: noted.
This was one of the better ones, I think. Shook a lot of folks up and provided a lot of targets to aim for.
Honestly, I'd consider anyone who doesn't have SOMEONE they question highly suspect at this point.. or lurking :P.
Fakeedit:
Insults just show you to be emotional. That means you're either losing control of yourself as scum, or easy to control as town. You were in Bay 12. Turning on Jerk Mode just gets townies killed.
It took me FOSing and prodding you to FINALLY get something real out of you. That's not a good sign.
I didn't put much stock towards your vote because you had nothing to attack. "Scummy!" is vague and senseless and your anti-OMGUS claim is new and untested, and doesn't work well when it just catches someone who's questioning others while focused on a real threat. You should've seen that I'm pushing Eduren and he's not done my questions yet. You're acting ugly but not enough to make me give up on Eduren to hunt you. I'd rather you keep speaking so I can read you better.
Unemotional: null tell. I don't consider one vote with little content more than a RV.
A real attack, but it took a good few prods to get it out of you. Noted.
Insulting, but that's your personality.
It took you're talking a lot to make me think you're scum. Big difference.
They fight a while with much sound and fury but little content on either side...both lack explanations for much, calling each other on it hypocritically...
Dakarian used a smiley? I don't remember dakarian using smilies.
Something tells me that I may have to do a Wide Scan. A bigger part tells me that Wide Scanning 19 people will make me cry. *sigh* Beats doing it in day 3 I guess.Appeal to emotion. Missed that earlier.
I go through a mountain of mess and the result is anti-climatic.APPEAL TO EMOTION X2 COMBO
*KICK*
As for my own self, I needed to rest after that last post. I'll be able to dive in soon enough.x3!
(tutorial on scumhunting, followed by telling Neruz what to do)
Firstly.. let me get this out:X4!Spoiler (click to show/hide)
tHERE..*cough* There, I feel better.
(snip)
Now I need to go actually READ the #&%*(4 thing.
And calm down a little... :P
also, note these appeals to emotion feel...hypocritical, when viewed with respect to this:
This isn't a mess: we actually have good info here. This is Scumhunting in regular form.
It's taking a while because...well.. that's how long it takes when you don't rely on power roles and luck. Over in the mafiascum forums, the first day can go on for 3 weeks with only 9 people and, trust me, those weeks were NEEDED.
It's so Obvscum that it's warping in on itself and starting to make himself look town again! O.oUndakarian.
...and defend/buddy Webadict!?So, uh, guys. Sorry for not posting. I'm fairly ill. I can't see clearly if my head isn't facing almost level because my eyes water, my sinuses are congested as all heck, and my head hurts. So, yeah. Not well.
So since I'm not following the whole thing perfectly (I've read all of it, and I hope I get it), I'm going to ask Webadict: Why do you feel the need to be so obscenely aggressive? And very angry. It's not very productive to make people angry, is it? Emotional people don't do anything mental quite as well.
If there was an answer to that, please tell me and I will look instead of asking.
Until I get an answer, Unvote Eduren. Since I think that's who I was voting.
I'll butt in.
Part of Webadict's recent meta is that he hates not being listened to. He's been lately been getting more and more hostile when he's not being read properly, seeing someone attack improperly, or when he's not listened to.
He's always been aggressive. The emotional aspect is based on that dislike and his looking for a way to 'make people see sense'.
Why the answer? Because his emotional outburst and aggressiveness is a null tell. It's part of his personality. Like it or hate it if you like. However, remember that we're not after people who are bothersome or even unhelpful. We are after scum and ONLY scum.
And, to be blunt, annoyance and unhelpfulness are NOT actions that are seen by mostly scum: it's just as likely to see a townie be that way as a scum.
Seriously guys. Stop the nonscum lynching. Killing Web because's he's a prick. Killing Shadow because he writes in 3 words for one day. Killing Eduren even though a nolynch will mean he frys (when we get close to lylo, it'll be another matter).So...uh...wow. Buddying on web after stagedfight.
We want to kill web because he's scummy and wants town to die.
2. Just did a quickscan on Leafsnail:...you're doing all these things that you accused Exkirby of before you killed him. Hypocrite.
First he Randomvotes ExKirby then later defends ExKirby, then fusses at him.
(snip)
OHBTW, Leaf was the 3rd vote on the Web bandwagon. 3rd vote scumtell strikes again!
(snip)
Btw, the web vote: 4th vote, soon after Leaf's vote.
Unvote(Cheeetar), I believe ExKirby is scum.
Talk, NOW ExKirby. I don't have to wait for a bandwagon to wipe you out.
Dakarian... you should've known better than that. You played that game. You were the Webadict at one point in that game.
Dakarian, why didn't you consider what that meant?
FakeeditDakarian...missing points, TWICE (Vector also posted the transfer rule) then pointing out how this means "don't kill webadict now" He'll continue to do this later, ignoring things I say.
#%)*)% I didn't think of it!
Well, it's not all horror. If the Webadict trick works the same as last game, the switch ONLY occurs if the old webadict dies the same day.
OTOH, we have two normal scum that were scum D1 and still scum D2.Dakarian states the number of scum differently to what everyone expects. Normally I'd let this slide, but...he has done it a few times.
Or, Giving the scum two mislynches in one day.
1. So long as I Vig someone today it's fine. Basically I'm giving the town two lynches in one day. I'm only aimed at you because you're my highest suspect.
You said you have a good role. Claim then....on day 2. Now, think to day 1:
...Wow, another hypocrisy?Rolenameclame! I'm a Rook.
SirBayer? Hello?
Rook. That smells of one of my creations.
However:
Rolefishing: Noted
@Mr.personI was moderately bothered by your rush ob. fuck, j key again.
You're starting to bother me with this rush job.
Wouldn't it be funny if ExKirby died for no reason whatsoever?Undakarian...
Oh. He also missed the giant robot roleblock. Missing details like this is seriously undakarian.
Not a whole lot d2 once Neruz decided to be transcendently scummy- going after that sort of thing doesn't say much, and a lot did it.
@EveryoneWell this is mighty strange. As is
I highly, HIGHLY suggest that we leave Neruz and Toonyman alone today. We need to wait until they stop trying to force us into a gambit before we know what to do with them.
Instead, I ask you, when you stop lookingn at Neruz, Toonyman, and the WIFOM insanity that is the KWN situation, what makes Meph anything but scummy, based on what we know of him so far?
that.dakarian: I point it out because it seemed odd to me.BTW: I've deemed Neruz's response about the 3/4 thing insulting and condesending.
I think defending Toonyman from Neruz's attack does tarnish your reputation...as, while Neruz is being scummy, he has been making arguments in the same vein as I- that Toony is apparently not being very forthcoming on his reasoning. (Like webadict, which is highly unusual for webadict).
Meanwhile, it seems the town has a problem with Neruz, Toonyman, Webadict, and Meph. Add the people who've gone into the sidelines/lurker mode and we have a VERY busy day 3.
Btw, scum only get to walk away from a near lynch when the town is unwilling to go back to the past days and continue where they left off. So long as you're willing to go back and reread the past days, combine it with more recent work, and continue your hunt, your prey will always be caught in the end. That includes the 'unlynchables' like Toony and Web.
I am reminded of something, lemme find it- it won't be in order, but
@Cobalt
About the blocking
It still doesn't explain the leafsnail death. Unless there's a Superkiller or a double killer out there. I still believe Leaf used his power.
Quote from: Pandarsenic
Eduren, too vague. I will grant you this one, though: The one-shot protection stops anything I can think of offhand except a kill by the Lord of Chaos or a Lynch.Now, dak claimed Lord of Chaos. Who...is a superkiller by Pandarsenic's word here. And he keeps claiming that there's one mafia short (3 instead of 4)
Vote Dakarian. You're lying, you haven't been aggressive all game. You being passive is a scum-tell, thus, you're scum. Double whammy, really. You also haven't answered my question, which was how predefending oneself was scummy.I'm not the only person who thinks this cat is off.
Some webadict-highlighted hypocrisy. I'll gladly do more than spend an entire postseries defending myself!Meh, OMGUS never worked as a scumtell and Mr.Person's post was about as bad as they come for attacks. If you're going to attack me, do something other than spend the entire post defending yourself.
D3. Dakarian decides Mr.Person attacking him merits a scan. Feels reactionary. Also, the end. (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg877508#msg877508)
Quote from: dakarian
I now believe you will suit well as the next lynch.Note how he doesn't say "you are scum," he says "You're a good target." Small, but there.
Quote from: dakarian
When you have a confirmed scum (Leafsnail) you can then scan the posts to try to catch their scummates. Some will buddy. Most will distance. Almost all will act 'funny' to each other.It's looking like you're acting funny with Toony, Meph, Web. All your votes seem to be in each other, except when there's an easy lynch target that someone else has set up...or someone is attacking you (Mr. Person, in your case)
Save it until lylo, since the mafia don't seem afraid of it or else they'd kill you already while you were still blocked....oneshot powers should not be saved until lylo. Seriously. scum.
That WAS my answer. You ask why I feel it's better to use it on lylo than tomorrow when I DON'T. I'd rather you use it on someone who claims during our debates.
But if you want to Mass Claim and check, you're better off waiting till it's close to lylo.
Save it until lylo, since the mafia don't seem afraid of it or else they'd kill you already while you were still blocked.Error inconsistent
If you want, you could always check out Meph who's already claimed or anyone else if we send them to L-1 then find a claim that keeps us from lynching them.
We also have the other batch load of folks.. though the thought of a widescan on 57 pages (83- the 26 I already widescanned) makes me cry.Appeal to emotion NUMBER FIVE.
First off, the biggest matter: the conversion theory.This is true, but...you're doing a poor job of it because of what you are.
That...is a damn good theory I have to say.
(snip)
In any case, I can see the argument for Convertscum-dakarian. Beyond explaining why I did what I did the most I can do is hunt while I can.
@WebMr. Person saw this, I do too. You're attacking...on someone else's argument (Toony's). Then, you claim to be "No, no, you're misreading me", and...same post as that?
I don't know Eduren's meta. Meanwhile, Toony disagrees: he says that self preservation ISN'T part of his meta. That's why I'm on him. I'll take your idea that he DOES act like this normally into consideration, but I want to hear more from him before I leave him alone.
Quote from: dakarian
[@MrPerson]you backpeddle, laugh off your mistakes ..Hypocrisy. Again.
From what I've seen. Eduren don't give jack shit about defending himself, atleast Town. Hmmm....
And with that, I am officially done with my RVS.
Eduren, last time i made an early attack like that the person turned out to be scum. Did I just do it again?
then a big fight with Mr. Person, which comes out meh. He scores a few points against you I won't bother quoting, but mainly hypocrisy.
Btw, these people have not posted once all of today:Shad0w's up for replacement, which you ignore
SHAD0WDump
Eduren
CobaltKobold
Rashilul
@Cobalt, mind showing where SirBayer claimed Doc? I missed that one.Another detail missed, building on my meta case.
@ToonyAAaand...thirdvotes. I see where you're coming from with the "When you look at scum, they tend to be there"- it's right here!
Note that the vote I did was due to me failling to unvote properly (as Pandar mentioned). I was technically the 3rd vote.
As for why, my personal statements against Cobalt started here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg892459#msg892459) which was prompted by Vector's analysis of him a few posts back. After the linked post, me and Cobalt fought it out-the argument can be seen in the posts after the link. Thus, along with Confusion and a faulty defense his attack singed less of "Dakarian is scum" and more of "get off of me!"
Anyway. That's my case on dakarian.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 12:16:52 pm
Spoiler: SirBayer (click to show/hide)
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 12:21:26 pm
Spoiler: mephansteras (click to show/hide)
Post by: dakarian on December 01, 2009, 12:22:35 pm
No, it's a crap argument to ask me to do it, and then say I never responded. There are half a dozenish cases of this on you (not specifically against me) or so, and counting while I read.
You aren't public enemy 1 because, well, at the time webby was more scummy. Presently his file is scummy but less so than yours (these files will be posted ...sometime soon, anyway, 80/103)
And so we wait.
Quote
Be more specific, please.
Confused? That's a scumtell btw. I showed it to you just a few posts ago.
To recap:
When I write THIS (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg892459#msg892459)
You could've answered with THIS (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg894851#msg894851)
But instead you answered with THIS (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg892538#msg892538)
You didn't miss the post because your attack post was based ON that post, yet you didn't make one comment ON my attack. Your first instinct wasn't "let's answer that question" it was "get this man killed"
Quote
I already explained the toony bit- I was uncertain in the mass of this thread what had happened to this claim. It's been brought up a few times since, as I'm finding as I reread.
With the batch of folks who have spoken claims long ago without follow up, or people who haven't made a claim at all, you just happen to bring up someone who is 100% dedicated to trying to get me lynched: more so than anyone else that voted for me.
Again.. it screams of "Toony, why is this man still free to bother me?"
Quote
For the rest, finding fault with an argument against me is the best way to deal with it- and not answering it is far worse. If you mean something else by poking match, you'll need to specify.
Right after the accusations done against you, you threw one line attacks against me, toony, and Vector. Considering that, out of 14 people, you prod (without vote or FoS-the FoS on me came later after I fussed at you for it-or even a very strong attack) the two people making a big case against you and someone directly after one of those two, it seems a very odd set of people to poke at.
Quote
I have had a few bad experiences with quicklynches. Answering things are more likely to get me the time that this uber-scumfind is taking. scum.
No, the question is "Why didn't you even bother to answer anything until L-1?" Did you think you could push it all aside if the town finished me off?
Quote
I've been rereading the thread (and eating/showering) for the past eight hours. It's coming, along with ones on my other prime suspects, and the conclusions.
Very well then.
As to the questions you have on Vector, remember that they are VECTOR'S accusations. I brought them up because one of MY issues is question dodging, which you did a very good bit of until you went into L-1. He'll answer to those replies when he gets in.
As to myself:
ALL of those are dependent on this alleged and in fact false claim about BM4. and...guess what? That's also the basis on which you voted me!
[/quote]
Incorrect.
My original reason for voting for you isn't using your BM4 meta. My original argument was your logic about mafia theory and how it fits with your defense.
If I were to put an analogy: Cop says you were seen at the bank that was robbed. Defendant defends that they don't use banks but carry cash instead because its safer. I argue "Wouldn't that mean you're carrying a batch of cash that can be robbed from you easier than in a bank?"
In the analogy, I'm not arguing that you were in the bank, just the logic behind your defense. I don't know if you actually said what you said in BM4. I just know your defense rang wrong to me.
After tons of prodding, you finally spoke up and explained yourself. That helped against my original issue.
The problem: the posts between my original argument and your answer are so full of Scum it hurts the eyes.
So NOW my argument against you is:
-You deflect accusations to attempt to get other people to target them rather than you.
-You use any attempt to lynch someone you can grab, even if you don't believe in it (i.e. my 3rd vote).
-You claim 'I was confused' when defending yourself..unless you've been given plenty of time to 'think' about it.
As far as the whole thing with Vector, I'm watching to see what he brings to the table. As it stands now, you don't look too hot to me.
@fakeedit
Before I read the WOT I'll have to note: you have all that on me and consider me worse than Web but YOU STILL HAVEN'T VOTED ON ME!
Post by: SirBayer on December 01, 2009, 12:24:58 pm
See, I post in tabs, and uh, I lost track of which tab I was in. Both reading and posting. I kinda blended together KWN: DE and this one for whatever reason. (hint: it has everything to do with retardedness)
Dak, I just noticed something - a while back you were trying to get me to resolve the "doctor issue". So I ask you this - why would you ever assume I could accurately respond to that question? Your guess is as good as mine ever was.
Of course, I think that's a town-tell, reflecting. Still, I'd love to hear about that.
Cobalt: I appreciate the part where you totally ignore the fact that I did offer evidence, just didn't link to it.
I cited you on the WIFOM well before anyone else, scumbucket. Don't pretend like that didn't happen.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 12:33:18 pm
You didn't miss the post because your attack post was based ON that post, yet you didn't make one comment ON my attack. Your first instinct wasn't "let's answer that question" it was "get this man killed"1. I was primarily responding to Vector.
(snip)
@fakeedit
Before I read the WOT I'll have to note: you have all that on me and consider me worse than Web but YOU STILL HAVEN'T VOTED ON ME!
2. the vote's in the sixth post of six, be patient. I'm putting the important stuff like votes in their own post so they're obvious.[quote
Quote from: dakarian
No, the question is "Why didn't you even bother to answer anything until L-1?" Did you think you could push it all aside if the town finished me off?I was addressing it in a different manner. Getting pushed to L-1 rather drove home the fact that I was doing it wrong.
Quote from: dakarian
I can't address the accusation if I'm not sure to what you're referring. You do basically this with web multiple times.("What hole?") +1 hypocrisy to the pile.Quote from: cobaltkoboldBe more specific, please.Confused? That's a scumtell btw. I showed it to you just a few posts ago.
OT: Anyone remember the post frequency limit?
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 12:34:47 pm
Mephansteras. For always being scum. He's scum again as well.[SCUM IS ALWAYS SCUM]
Hmmm...This is not town-webadict. This is weak and vacillating.
We'll see. Unvote.
Oh, and I dunno...
SirBayer is pretty scummy, I suppose.
Scummy.From what I've seen. Eduren don't give jack shit about defending himself, atleast Town. Hmmm....
And with that, I am officially done with my RVS.
Eduren, last time i made an early attack like that the person turned out to be scum. Did I just do it again?
Quote from: webadict link=topic=44270.msg852651#msg852651It was a generalization, I suppose!
Passiveness.. from Webadict!?
Unpossible
This is strange behavior for you, Webadict. Random voting? Not having a big list of scum printed out? You keep changing who you're focusing on? Something's off with Webadict, I can tell you that for sure. Webadict, who is the scum?Others agree something is off with Web
Stagedfight?People truly underestimate RVS.Duh, saying nothing important: noted.
This was one of the better ones, I think. Shook a lot of folks up and provided a lot of targets to aim for.
Honestly, I'd consider anyone who doesn't have SOMEONE they question highly suspect at this point.. or lurking :P.
Fakeedit:
Insults just show you to be emotional. That means you're either losing control of yourself as scum, or easy to control as town. You were in Bay 12. Turning on Jerk Mode just gets townies killed.
It took me FOSing and prodding you to FINALLY get something real out of you. That's not a good sign.
I didn't put much stock towards your vote because you had nothing to attack. "Scummy!" is vague and senseless and your anti-OMGUS claim is new and untested, and doesn't work well when it just catches someone who's questioning others while focused on a real threat. You should've seen that I'm pushing Eduren and he's not done my questions yet. You're acting ugly but not enough to make me give up on Eduren to hunt you. I'd rather you keep speaking so I can read you better.
Unemotional: null tell. I don't consider one vote with little content more than a RV.
A real attack, but it took a good few prods to get it out of you. Noted.
Insulting, but that's your personality.
It took you're talking a lot to make me think you're scum. Big difference.
They fight a while with much sound and fury but little content on either side...both lack explanations for much, calling each other on it hypocritically...
And I told you: I don't do Meta....translation: No, your townmeta on me is false.While everyone else might not agree...I think Web is a townie. Mainly for all the raeging. And he did that in P11 and he was a townie.I told you: I don't do Meta.
Also, this is as plausible as Mr.Person's "I have a strict anti-WIFOM policy".
Webadict gets to L-1 or 2. Cheeetar attacks...doesn't hammer...EDUREN PARDONS (or claims to). Everyone gets off him...and mysteriously, never come back.
I'd rather claim while I can instead of not doing so, because some of us know that lynching a town member is actually CONTRARY to the town's goal of lynching the mafia....remember how webadict was advocating shad0w's lynch independent of Shad0w's scum/town status? Hypocrite.
I'm glad you're trying to provoke a response. Now, tomorrow, if you don't give me a detailed response about why you couldn't help out before, used faulty logic to vote for me, and are active lurking, I will get you modkilled.Old webadict sum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg855250#msg855250
Yeah, it'll kill me, but it'll be oh so worth it to make you gone.
Web gets up to 5votes, aaand...Neruz is the one who unvoted, causing the unbandwagon...and flipped town. meh.
Wow...Webadict continues to not supply much in way of reasons.
What was that?
Also, Rashilul is very scummy.
AND SCREW YOU ORG FOR BEING A HUGE ROBOT! Why on EARTH did you block me?
Seriously guys. Stop the nonscum lynching. Killing Web because's he's a prick. Killing Shadow because he writes in 3 words for one day. Killing Eduren even though a nolynch will mean he frys (when we get close to lylo, it'll be another matter).Interesting.
Hmm...He misses that Exkirby is dead. Unlike webadict...
Along with Org...
Mr.Person is probable scum.
So is...
ExKirby.
And... Rashilul or Redwarrior0.
Very unlike webadict...
I can't find anyone anymore...
I still believe dakarian is scum, too, though no real feeling is holding...
...OK tht sounds quite strange. Like...oh, Toony and Web scum.We coulda at least tried to lynch someone else, no?Also, Neruz was town. I was right you stupid people.Then why did you hammer him if you thought he was town?
The game was stalling and I wanted a fresh start against you/scum.
day...3...massclaim...wtf. seriously, THIS IS NOT TOWN-WEBADICT. He's smarter than that. (He does catch a few coming out-Sirbayer and Cheeetar.)They keep their old roleMan, screw you.
They cannot repeat the REPLACE action
They gain his one-shot revive if it was not used by Leafsnail originally.
I'm calling for a Massclaim, because this is ridiculous.
Aaand doesn't call Toony on the miscount EITHER. It's like...a mafia conspiracy to make us feel safe!4/14 are mafia. (or should be =P)You'd think so, but we don't really KNOW, now do we? Seeing as how Leafsnail had a Revive, who knows what else we really have? Obviously, there's a balance, so whichever roles aren't balanced are obviously fake.
28.5% are mafia.
4/14
4/12 - Mislynch then night-kill.
4/10 - Mslynch then night-kill.
4/8 - Mislynch then night-kill.
4/6 - Mslynch then night-kill.
4/4 - Lose.
Standarly, we can mislynch four times before losing. With a night-kill. We should not have a mass-claim now. No no no.
Gotta go!
I think I'd be able to tell which ones aren't balanced. It's sorta like a puzzle. I'd rather everyone knew everything than the mafia knew a little more than us.
And he doesn't point it out.I don't think it's inconsistent. Saying something is something does not make something something.It is. There's a great big GLARING hole in his argument the size of Texas. The fact no one sees it is because no one's paying attention.
I want him to keep talking, because he'll just keep slipping up.
But, dakarian is afraid that I'll catch him, so he's hiding behind his little excuse. There's no point in hiding behind power roles because, get this, we can win WITHOUT THEM! The point of the game is to LYNCH the Mafia, not out-PR them.So...throw all the PRs in the wastebin and we'll kill the mafia! wait. The town's gone! Also, note the dislike of discourse. Hiding something.
dakarian is ridiculously suspicious, and I'm glad there's enough people not here to not actually debate it.
Quote from: webadict
As for Mephansteras? He's been playing a similar game, so if he's mafia, he started out as such. It makes sense, since he "confirmed" dakarian as a town (Which could be fooled using Leafsnail's power?) He'd also be able to make the decisive conversion of the best player in which to convert. He's also putting up a good front to lynch himself. Perhaps we should take it?This...is interesting. Lynch chain. However, it is this post that seems to be when web got his computer back, which means his (postlength)meta flipped back to normal-ish. Behaviour contained is still strange and...skulky? He is loath to reveal his reasons.
I also forgot to mention a potential target for conversion, so radical that I only noticed it AFTER I posted. That would be ToonyMan. This clear lunatic would actually help them by being ridiculously clever at avoiding scumtells, by simply having very few of them and being a crazy person. He'd also throw around so much crap, you'd have to remove his presence to get a good few of what everyone else is saying. He's also crafty.He points...to within his little group again, and at his pet target who is UP FOR REPLACEMENT. Webadict doesn't normally miss details like that.
And I just remembered SHAD0Wdump is playing and he's yet to help after his whole three word things was taken away.
Throwing fingers.Ah, I see, I misread it the first time.Aaaaahhh, what is that aroma I smell?
Yes, web could easily be scum. But is that your major argument for voting for him?
Vector, can't you smell it too? I'm sure it's major WIFOM. Look, it's one thing for SirBayer to do it (I feel icky for using FoS), but when you do this active lurk/WIFOM/passive thing, it's not cool at all, Mephansteras.
So, you're going to get in here and start playing. Kk? Thx.
Org, why didn't you roleblock yesterday?
Missing details.Well, Sir Bayer was very Wifomish. Like crazy. Although, it was probably just being a newb.No
And web, didnt I say why I didnt roleblock?
Yeah... let's all mass on that there CobaltKobold. He be the scum o' the Irish town.Low-argument vote. Again. Also, it looks to be fourthvote to top off the case.
Perhaps tomorrow dakarian... Perhaps tomorrow...
Quote from: pandarsenic
CobaltKobold [4]: Cheeetar, Vector, Mr.Person, Webadict
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 12:38:20 pm
Woah... rather a lot of pages since I was last here. I'll go through my top suspects now. Unvote.OK: Points at the obvscum, and...some dakarian wifom, bah. *nulls*
Webadict: Ok, what the hell? Passivity, weak attacks, weak defense, weak everything... it's almost as if you're trying to avoid detection! When on earth does town webadict do this?
Mephansteras: Useless questions, and yes, they do resemble the questions he asked in Bay 12 Mafia in order to try and appear as if he was doing something and scumhunting. Town Meph seems to be significantly more aggressive.
Rashilul: My vote was on you originally, and while you haven't given me any real reason to remove it, I'm unvoting in order to put more pressure on webadict, who has now surpassed you in terms of scumminess. However, you've come up with a list of scum, but you don't seem to have acted on it, nor do you seem to have pressured any of the members of this list at all. How come?
Dakarian: Actually, he seems to be acting like he usually does as town. I certainly wouldn't clear him of being scum, but he's not on my main list at the moment.
Zaithemaster: Ok, what the hell is up with this post:Quote1) I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't be so condescending, Your Royal Highness. 2) I'm not trying to convince anybody here right now, and therefore do not need to explain my vote. I'll leave that to Dak, who I think will be much more persuasive. If he starts being scummy again, votes shall change.Leaving someone else to attack for you is the very definition of passivity! You should be doing your own scumhunting, not just waiting for a super poster, who's not totally guarenteed to be town anyway, to do it for you.
Lurkers: Argh, there's too many of them. For now, however, I'd prefer a lynch on someone who's acting scummily than someone who hasn't posted yet. One day we might get our 10 votes on someone...
Spoiler: Toonyman (click to show/hide)
By the way, Gordon Freeman was the first thought that came tonight. Anyone with a crowbar (or any kind of bar) should hit me, which I'm pretty sure will cause my rolee to change.Fillip of interest:
Anyways, Neruz doesn't have enough votes yet.
Also, if there is a Gordon Freeman, I hope he attacks me tonight.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 12:47:06 pm
Spoiler: a little more miscellany-need to organise better (click to show/hide)
Conclusions:
Vote Dakarian. Appeals to emotion (5), faulty arguments, failed reasoning, hypocrisy (5+? wasn't counting there), and a cherry of a couple thirdvotes...and, something I didn't notice, is, he's pointing out that "no, I'm really the thirdvote" for some wifom!Toonyman. Toony and is doing a lot of "btw I'm town" and toony's doing a lot of unsupported arguments. Also hammering the lynch when he thought Neruz was town.
WebadictWebadict's doing a lot of mad-lib-attacks (I'm not specifying, find it yourself) allowing people to fill in his attacks, and missing a lot of details, which is not in townweb file. Also, his earlier posts are metaunlike townweb-possibly due to the computer lack thing, as it has fixed, which is one reason he's down here. Has a patent disregard for townlife.
Mephansteras - Lurky, wifom in his selfmeta, and a fair amount of "btw I'm town" things.
Sirbayer is being scummy in a couple ways, but seems more to horse around than anything else.
Rashilul is being a bloody lurker and doing some stupid shit, but...too lurky to read well.
Post by: SirBayer on December 01, 2009, 12:52:34 pm
Spoiler: a little more miscellany-need to organise better (click to show/hide)
You appear in bold... twice there. On all of them except yourself.
And this is supposed to be your "wagon count".
So, uh... what are you trying to tell us here?
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 12:57:45 pm
Quote from: dakarian
-You use any attempt to lynch someone you can grab, even if you don't believe in it (i.e. my 3rd vote).That wasn't an attempt to lynch you, it was what it said on the tin: noting the eccentricity. THIS (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg895176#msg895176) is an attempt to lynch you.
Post by: webadict on December 01, 2009, 01:00:37 pm
Spoiler: CobaltKobold's Attack on me (click to show/hide)
Also, anything you want to CLAIM before we lynch you? (I'm sure you haven't quite come up with your fakeclaim and that's why you haven't.)
Oh, and yeah dakarian IS suspicious. We've already established that before your long posts. Thanks for obviousness.
Post by: Mephansteras on December 01, 2009, 01:01:58 pm
Basically, he had the time to post that he doesn't think someone is suspicious and that he should not vote someone who he knows is town, which is basically saying he's blatantly lurking. Look elsewhere to prove it: He's got time for Paranormal, but not here, not even a few minutes.
Yes, as a matter of fact. If I have, say, 5 minutes that's plenty of time to grab a few votes from Wizard Duel or answer a question about Paranormal. It is not enough time to go through pages and pages of this thread to decide whether or not to vote for someone close to being hammered. Last time I scanned CobaltKobold he was sort of middling on my list, enough that I wanted to go back and read a bunch of stuff before deciding to vote him when he was close to being hammered.
I can't do that in 5 or even 10 minutes, it takes at least a half hour to do any decent digging in this game. Hours if I want to do a full scan and wade back through the previous few days. Work has been busy and I've had to make time to be active in this.
So, no, I haven't been as active as I'd like. But that's not really an excuse to go around voting for people without thinking about it. If I was willing to just randomly hop on bandwagons without any decent explanations it'd be a lot easier to play, but that wouldn't exactly be helpful either.
Post by: SirBayer on December 01, 2009, 01:04:35 pm
More later when not doing skewls. Or at least when doing subjects during which I can pretend to be being productive instead of playing Mafia online.
Post by: webadict on December 01, 2009, 01:10:09 pm
Close to hammer? You mean having 4 votes out of the necessary 8? Seems you made up your mind quickly enough though, so why so defensive?Basically, he had the time to post that he doesn't think someone is suspicious and that he should not vote someone who he knows is town, which is basically saying he's blatantly lurking. Look elsewhere to prove it: He's got time for Paranormal, but not here, not even a few minutes.
Yes, as a matter of fact. If I have, say, 5 minutes that's plenty of time to grab a few votes from Wizard Duel or answer a question about Paranormal. It is not enough time to go through pages and pages of this thread to decide whether or not to vote for someone close to being hammered. Last time I scanned CobaltKobold he was sort of middling on my list, enough that I wanted to go back and read a bunch of stuff before deciding to vote him when he was close to being hammered.
I can't do that in 5 or even 10 minutes, it takes at least a half hour to do any decent digging in this game. Hours if I want to do a full scan and wade back through the previous few days. Work has been busy and I've had to make time to be active in this.
So, no, I haven't been as active as I'd like. But that's not really an excuse to go around voting for people without thinking about it. If I was willing to just randomly hop on bandwagons without any decent explanations it'd be a lot easier to play, but that wouldn't exactly be helpful either.
You're not really being all that helpful now anyhow. You're still lurking and you've managed to read enough to know that I am attacking you, but not enough to have an inkling of suspicion on others.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 01:15:44 pm
Anyway, I have been here for elevenish hours. Lunch is required, so I'll be gone for...an hour? Something like.
Post by: webadict on December 01, 2009, 01:34:53 pm
I'm addressing accusations against me, and hunting scum. Not much beyond that I can do to prove I'm town. Besides, I'm at L-2 6/8. Your trying to persuade meph otherwise is either trying to get an oblivious hammer or being stupid- which doesn't fit your meta either way.Well... considering he's already voting you... I don't have to persuade him too much, now do I?
Anyway, I have been here for elevenish hours. Lunch is required, so I'll be gone for...an hour? Something like.
Post by: Mr.Person on December 01, 2009, 01:50:42 pm
Been trying to catch up with this, but let me just ask
Mr. Person: What happened to me being too dangerous to let live?
I think we're capable of finding scum before lylo, I decided it might be best to go out and find scum instead of just trying to get a lynch going on you "just in case". It's not a bad plan or anything, but it's also not terribly productive if everyone jumps on the wagon and doesn't say anything else.
Post by: dakarian on December 01, 2009, 02:12:57 pm
flimsy argument-attributable to rvs.
Feels bloodthirsty (lynch anyone) in rvs. (supported later: see the hopping on bandwagons with Meph.)
Your first argument is about RVS when I threw a randomvote + emotional attack?!
Quote
This is...VERY not Dakarian.
On what grounds? Are you saying I've never poked at anyone as town? I remember being harsh to Pandarsenic in Toon Mafia 5. I was town then.
Quote
Staged fight?
WIFOM, noted.
Quote
Stagedfight.
They fight a while with much sound and fury but little content on either side...both lack explanations for much, calling each other on it hypocritically...
Dakarian used a smiley? I don't remember dakarian using smilies.
It's just leaving RVS. There's not exactly a ton of content to go on.
Meanwhile, you're calling me out for smiles? Reaching. Simply reaching.
Quote
X4!1. People were grumbling over the nature of Day 1. I've said in many cases that I feel a strong day 1 is vital to a town win. Thus when they grumbled I told them my feelings on the matter. I've done this before, and I'll do it again.
2. I'm the host of Beginner's Mafia. Because of it, I've grown used to watching over newness or explaining issues. I'll quickly do it in other games when I see it.
3. That blasted thing took me the entire day to work over and it was for only half of day 3.
As for the other thing.. you did that "quote without an explanation" thing again. Explain how the Emotional Apealls x4 and the quotes just before "undakarian" compare with each other. Also explain how I am SUPPOSED to act?
Quote
...and defend/buddy Webadict!?
Meta arguing. angry-web is a null tell and aggressiveness is NOT a scumtell.
Quote
...you're doing all these things that you accused Exkirby of before you killed him. Hypocrite.
Leafsnail is confirmed scum. When you find someone CONFIRMED, you go after those they associate themselves with.
Webadict is someone YOU believe is scum. You're biggest argument so far against me is my interaction with him. There's a big difference with that. Don't make a scumteam before you actually have a confirmed scum to link it with.
Quote
Dakarian...missing points, TWICE (Vector also posted the transfer rule) then pointing out how this means "don't kill webadict now" He'll continue to do this later, ignoring things I say.
Elaborate on this one.
Quote
Dakarian states the number of scum differently to what everyone expects. Normally I'd let this slide, but...he has done it a few times.
While you're at it, elaborate on this one too.
Quote
Or, Giving the scum two mislynches in one day.
WIFOM
Quote
Wow, another hypocrisy?
Asking for rolenames right into RVS isn't quite the same as asking for a claim just before the person dies. It's normal to ask for a claim when the person is at L-1. Since I had a daykill, Exkirby was, effectively, at that point. It's NOT normal to start going on about roles at the very start of day 1.
Quote
I was moderately bothered by your rush ob. fuck, j key again.
Explain.
Quote
Wouldn't it be funny if ExKirby died for no reason whatsoever?Undakarian...
You didn't notice the big "ExKirby dies for no reason whatsover!" text soon after? That's HOW my kill worked. Write a post saying nothing but that and the person gets vigged.
Quote
Oh. He also missed the giant robot roleblock. Missing details like this is seriously undakarian.
I missed it? What was I supposed to do about it specifically that town-dakarian would've done?
Quote
Well this is mighty strange. As is that.
You point to two quotes and that's all you say.. it's "strange". No reason why it's strange. No argument.. just "look at this".Quote
I'm not the only person who thinks this cat is off.
Some webadict-highlighted hypocrisy. I'll gladly do more than spend an entire postseries defending myself!
Now I see a problem with your attack. When I remove the large quotes all I get is this to speak about. Makes it tricky to defend when you just put a quote, say "this is wrong" and walk away.
AKA: explain that one too.QuoteD3. Dakarian decides Mr.Person attacking him merits a scan. Feels reactionary. (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg877508#msg877508)
Finally something from you directly. I poked at him in Day 2, he responded very defensively, I attacked him for it. Day 3 he comes in full swinging with major accusations and little support behind them. When I poke at the argument it turns out to be weak, unsupported, and full of misinformation. Combined with Day 2 it made it look like more than a townie making a scumhunt. It looked desperate. Thus I turned full power on him.QuoteNote how he doesn't say "you are scum," he says "You're a good target." Small, but there.
That was when I was still pressuring him and arguing with him.
When I was done and formally was ready to see him lynched, I referred to him as scum (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg881698#msg881698):QuoteIt's looking like you're acting funny with Toony, Meph, Web. All your votes seem to be in each other, except when there's an easy lynch target that someone else has set up...or someone is attacking you (Mr. Person, in your case)
'in each other'?
Explain this one. Are you saying that I've only been after easy targets?Quoteoneshot powers should not be saved until lylo. Seriously. scum.
Error inconsistent
Web wanted everyone to MC with him scanning someone afterwards. I spoke against it and said if he wants to pull that he should wait.
He's still better off using it on someone without a MC, say someone who's already claimed a roleQuoteThis is true, but...you're doing a poor job of it because of what you are.
grounds? You haven't shown how I haven't been hunting well.QuoteHypocrisy. Again.
then a big fight with Mr. Person, which comes out meh. He scores a few points against you I won't bother quoting, but mainly hypocrisy.
You won't explain how it's hypocritical?QuoteAAaand...thirdvotes. I see where you're coming from with the "When you look at scum, they tend to be there"- it's right here!
Anyway. That's my case on dakarian.
So your case is:
Emotional appeals...to the entire town (when typically it's to individual people to defend yourself or to buddy with them)
Your link between me and Web, which means you've created a fully decked out scumteam between him and me.
Me being 'undakarian'...when you haven't demonstrated what 'dakarian' is.
Me being hypocritical...when half of the comparisons aren't as comparable as you might think, and the other have involves reasons you don't care to explain.
And a batch of other 'scummy' actions that you fail to explain.
Btw, next time you do a massive batch of quote insanity don't stick your text right inside the code? You know how hard and annoying it was to pull your words from the quote text? White space!
Post by: ToonyMan on December 01, 2009, 02:45:56 pm
Spoiler: a little more miscellany-need to organise better (click to show/hide)Conclusions:Vote Dakarian. Appeals to emotion (5), faulty arguments, failed reasoning, hypocrisy (5+? wasn't counting there), and a cherry of a couple thirdvotes...and, something I didn't notice, is, he's pointing out that "no, I'm really the thirdvote" for some wifom!
Toonyman. Toony and is doing a lot of "btw I'm town" and toony's doing a lot of unsupported arguments. Also hammering the lynch when he thought Neruz was town.
WebadictWebadict's doing a lot of mad-lib-attacks (I'm not specifying, find it yourself) allowing people to fill in his attacks, and missing a lot of details, which is not in townweb file. Also, his earlier posts are metaunlike townweb-possibly due to the computer lack thing, as it has fixed, which is one reason he's down here. Has a patent disregard for townlife.
Mephansteras - Lurky, wifom in his selfmeta, and a fair amount of "btw I'm town" things.
Sirbayer is being scummy in a couple ways, but seems more to horse around than anything else.
Rashilul is being a bloody lurker and doing some stupid shit, but...too lurky to read well.
This makes me think of a situation I haven't thought of before, if Webadict and Dakarian were scum, and it makes sense so.
Scumlist:
dakarian
Webadict
Meph
SirBayer
I really really really really like that list. Just swap out always scum eduren(that's his towntell) and plop in webadict! There you go. The only problem I have is....Cheeetar should be on that list. So!
Scumlist:
dakarian
Cheeetar
Meph
Webadict
SirBayer
His attack on me was pretty uncanny.
Also so yeah, I only said Webadict is scum because I forgot the fact THAT BOTH COULD BE. :-D Yah.
Post by: webadict on December 01, 2009, 03:07:27 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 03:11:52 pm
Be more specific, please.
Confused? That's a scumtell btw. I showed it to you just a few posts ago.
Quote from: CobaltKobold
Y'know, it'd be nice if people would READ these.I noted several places where you have missed points. . .And, your asking would be another such! missed the giant robot roleblock, for one to pull from my wall.
Quote from: dakarian
Meanwhile, you're calling me out for smiles? Reaching. Simply reaching.If I were calling two smilies an A2E, then it would be reaching. As is, it's a component of my meta-argument.
Quote from: dakarian
I remember being harsh to Pandarsenic in Toon Mafia 5. I was town then.Selfmeta=null
Quote
As for the other thing.. you did that "quote without an explanation" thing again. Explain how the Emotional Apealls x4 and the quotes just before "undakarian" compare with each other.One, you point out how lots of time and posts is a good thing, the other, you're complaining about it. Feels hypocritical.
Quote
Also explain how I am SUPPOSED to act?Logically, with well-structured, well-researched arguments, and not appealing to emotion.
Quote
Dakarian states the number of scum differently to what everyone expects. Normally I'd let this slide, but...he has done it a few times.I was writing this- apparently the other one is actually toonyman.
Quote from: dakarian
That is in no way I can discern wifom. seriously, you're better than that with mafia terms. Another metapoint. the fact is, it was a mislynch. Another fact is, you did not do it in any particular way that made it like "another lynch". You decided on your own to go after exkirby and other people (MrPerson at least, may have been a few others) more or less said "what the hell dakarian" when you told him to claim or die.Quote from: cobaltkoboldOr, Giving the scum two mislynches in one day.WIFOM
Quote
Asking for rolenames right into RVS isn't quite the same as asking for a claim just before the person dies. It's normal to ask for a claim when the person is at L-1. Since I had a daykill, Exkirby was, effectively, at that point. It's NOT normal to start going on about roles at the very start of day 1.See above: the town did not have the consensus you are trying to whip up out of thin air. Ergo, he was not "effectively at L-1". He was effectively at your gunpoint, whose control you were NOT really giving to the town. If you wanted to "give the town an extra lynch" you'd wait until sometime like...oh...now, and, instead of hammering, use the daykill. What you did was highly irregular and suspect.
Quote from: dakarian
See above- you definitely did not have eight others with you on this.Quote from: cobaltkoboldI was moderately bothered by your rush ob. fuck, j key again.Explain.
Quote from: dakarian
I'll buy that.Quote from: cobaltkoboldYou didn't notice the big "ExKirby dies for no reason whatsover!" text soon after? That's HOW my kill worked. Write a post saying nothing but that and the person gets vigged.Quote from: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 03:20:51 PM
Wouldn't it be funny if ExKirby died for no reason whatsoever?
Undakarian...
Quote
Quote from: cobaltkoboldNow I see a problem with your attack. When I remove the large quotes all I get is this to speak about. Makes it tricky to defend when you just put a quote, say "this is wrong" and walk away.
I'm not the only person who thinks this cat is off.
Some webadict-highlighted hypocrisy. I'll gladly do more than spend an entire postseries defending myself!
AKA: explain that one too.
You make a post saying "If you're going to attack me, do something other than spend the entire post defending yourself." -while attacking someone, the entire post, defending yourself. See yet?
Quote from: dakarian
Emotional appeals...to the entire town (when typically it's to individual people to defend yourself or to buddy with them)Why appeal to one if you can garner sympathy from all? A2E is still scummy.
Quote from: dakarian
Your link between me and Web, which means you've created a fully decked out scumteam between him and me.RNG's the breaks.
Quote
Me being 'undakarian'...when you haven't demonstrated what 'dakarian' is.(town)Dakarian is actually good at this game. You're making errors left and right.
Quote from: dakarian
Me being hypocritical...when half of the comparisons aren't as comparable as you might think, and the other have involves reasons you don't care to explain.A summary dismissal, does not need individual addressing, as I have addressed the points you are trying to wave off.
Quote from: dakarian
And a batch of other 'scummy' actions that you fail to explain.They're your scummy actions-I shouldn't have to explain your actions. Explaining why they're scummy- that I'm doing. (Assuming people will grasp a concept when I display only necessary steps is a failing of mine sometimes.)
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 03:13:39 pm
Quote from: dakarian
Btw, next time you do a massive batch of quote insanity don't stick your text right inside the code? You know how hard and annoying it was to pull your words from the quote text? White space!Did.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 03:46:27 pm
Post by: Rashilul on December 01, 2009, 03:49:47 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on December 01, 2009, 04:27:31 pm
His attack on me was pretty uncanny.
How do you mean by that? So far, the only reason I can see for you voting for me is because I was pressuring you. Provide some reasoning.
Post by: Mephansteras on December 01, 2009, 04:33:40 pm
nothing to say
Any particular reason?
Post by: Org on December 01, 2009, 04:42:36 pm
Rash. DOnt post if you have nothing to say.nothing to say
Any particular reason?
Right, scumeph?
Post by: Mr.Person on December 01, 2009, 04:42:59 pm
Oh, and I was just convinced by the fact Dakarian spent his entire last post defending himself when he said earlier that spending an entire post defending oneself is scummy, so vote Dakarian.
Post by: Org on December 01, 2009, 04:44:00 pm
Aha, THAT"S what was bothering me! Dakarian day kill! I never did understood why he decided to shoot at the beginning of day 2. If he was town, he should of shot Webadict near the end of day 1. The town wanted Webadict dead, we couldn't lynch him, the timing was perfect! Yet Dakarian decides to stay quiet. That's anti-town. Before anybody says "BUT ANTI-TOWN DON'T MEAN SCUMMY LOL", shut up. Anti-town means AGAINST the town, which means somebody we want to lynch.Could be survivor.
Oh, and I was just convinced by the fact Dakarian spent his entire last post defending himself when he said earlier that spending an entire post defending oneself is scummy, so vote Dakarian.
Post by: Mr.Person on December 01, 2009, 04:54:49 pm
All the more reason to lynch him.Aha, THAT"S what was bothering me! Dakarian day kill! I never did understood why he decided to shoot at the beginning of day 2. If he was town, he should of shot Webadict near the end of day 1. The town wanted Webadict dead, we couldn't lynch him, the timing was perfect! Yet Dakarian decides to stay quiet. That's anti-town. Before anybody says "BUT ANTI-TOWN DON'T MEAN SCUMMY LOL", shut up. Anti-town means AGAINST the town, which means somebody we want to lynch.Could be survivor.
Oh, and I was just convinced by the fact Dakarian spent his entire last post defending himself when he said earlier that spending an entire post defending oneself is scummy, so vote Dakarian.
Post by: Mephansteras on December 01, 2009, 04:58:21 pm
Post by: Org on December 01, 2009, 05:05:54 pm
No, the PM I got from Pandarsenic said that ExKirby was killed by someone in favor of the town. So, not a survivor or mafia.Scum
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 05:28:55 pm
nothing to sayrashilul = rashilul. damnit.
Else, looks like nothing has come up of terrible importance while I was out again, so I'm likely to drop off for sleep.
Pandarsenic, for the KWN rule, is it lynches-only (there weren't daykills in KWN afaik) or any daykill? I'm curious.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 01, 2009, 05:31:32 pm
His attack on me was pretty uncanny.
How do you mean by that? So far, the only reason I can see for you voting for me is because I was pressuring you. Provide some reasoning.
It's quite simple really. I lynch CobaltKobld, therefore killing off someone that could hurt you(scum) AND you get a nice target(me) for tomorrow.
Post by: Eduren on December 01, 2009, 05:32:06 pm
Just swap out always scum eduren(that's his towntell)Trying to get rid of that. :P
I guess that is understandable.Been trying to catch up with this, but let me just ask
Mr. Person: What happened to me being too dangerous to let live?
I think we're capable of finding scum before lylo, I decided it might be best to go out and find scum instead of just trying to get a lynch going on you "just in case". It's not a bad plan or anything, but it's also not terribly productive if everyone jumps on the wagon and doesn't say anything else.
Post by: Rashilul on December 01, 2009, 05:32:10 pm
Rash. DOnt post if you have nothing to say.nothing to say
Any particular reason?
Right, scumeph?
im posting caus peoples are clamoring for it
Post by: ToonyMan on December 01, 2009, 05:36:45 pm
They serve a purpose. Like this one here, it's explaining to you WHAT MEANINGFUL POSTS are.
Saying that you are HERE is not MEANINGFUL.
Post by: Rashilul on December 01, 2009, 05:38:48 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on December 01, 2009, 05:41:41 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on December 01, 2009, 05:42:27 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 05:45:52 pm
...what? I pointed out how you were willing to lynch (people you thought were) town yesterday too. Following shows you think I'm town:His attack on me was pretty uncanny.
How do you mean by that? So far, the only reason I can see for you voting for me is because I was pressuring you. Provide some reasoning.
It's quite simple really. I lynch CobaltKobld, therefore killing off someone that could hurt you(scum) AND you get a nice target(me) for tomorrow.
So, you want Cobalt lynched, but you aren't willing to lynch him because you also want dakarian lynched? Uh, what?
No, I'm not doing that scum-bait.(nor am I in your more recent scumlist. (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg895385#msg895385)). explain, toony.
eduren and Cheeetar are scum.
CobaltKobold is town. He was low on my list anyway.
Scumlist:
dakarian
Meph
Cheeetar
eduren
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 05:51:41 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on December 01, 2009, 05:53:25 pm
Post by: Rashilul on December 01, 2009, 05:54:15 pm
And those facts aren't even accurate! What the heck, at least make the irrelevant info right.
you said content
you want facts you should really, really find a cop
Post by: ToonyMan on December 01, 2009, 05:56:41 pm
Oh man you're worse than Org, the worst worst part is you're probably town.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 05:57:04 pm
Then why are you suggesting my lynch here, particularly if I can hurt "cheeetar(scum)"(phrasing yours, toony's)?His attack on me was pretty uncanny.
How do you mean by that? So far, the only reason I can see for you voting for me is because I was pressuring you. Provide some reasoning.
It's quite simple really. I lynch CobaltKobld, therefore killing off someone that could hurt you(scum) AND you get a nice target(me) for tomorrow.
Post by: Rashilul on December 01, 2009, 05:57:21 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on December 01, 2009, 06:00:21 pm
what if MY ROLE IS ORG
That would make sense actually...
@CobaltKobold:
Sorry if there's a problem there, but I don't want your lynch at all. I was calling you a threat to scum actually.
Post by: Rashilul on December 01, 2009, 06:04:03 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 06:48:37 pm
Post by: Org on December 01, 2009, 06:50:54 pm
what if MY ROLE IS ORGwhat if MY ROLE IS ORG
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 01, 2009, 07:19:56 pm
what if MY ROLE IS ORGwhat if MY ROLE IS ORGwhat if MY ROLE IS ORG
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 01, 2009, 07:21:55 pm
nothing to sayrashilul = rashilul. damnit.
Else, looks like nothing has come up of terrible importance while I was out again, so I'm likely to drop off for sleep.
Pandarsenic, for the KWN rule, is it lynches-only (there weren't daykills in KWN afaik) or any daykill? I'm curious.
You don't even know what the KWN rule did.
Post by: Rashilul on December 01, 2009, 07:44:34 pm
Post by: Rashilul on December 01, 2009, 07:45:58 pm
unvote dakarian
Rashilul
Post by: ToonyMan on December 01, 2009, 08:30:11 pm
Post by: SirBayer on December 01, 2009, 09:59:20 pm
His attack on me was pretty uncanny.
How do you mean by that? So far, the only reason I can see for you voting for me is because I was pressuring you. Provide some reasoning.
You too, my friend. You haven't been so great about it yourself.
Hmm. Cobalt grows ever more distressingly convincing.
Rashilul: :I
Post by: Vector on December 01, 2009, 10:00:51 pm
Okay, that was the sound of Vector being a moron. I thought CobaltKobold had been more involved in arguments against MagmaDeath's "Vector is scum because he is alive" in BMIV. It turns out that I was mistaken, and my memories of his supportive behavior at the end of D4 were tainted by other events in the game.
That said, I still think he's scum based on his recent statements. I apologize for the lack of quotations in the below; they are partially because the behaviors are rampant, and partially because it is nearly impossible to dig them out of his crunched blocks of text.
First, his current arguments are based almost entirely on meta. Though that is not a conventional scumtell, I consider it scummy since it implies that everyone's in-game play does not seem so noteworthy to him as it does in the context of meta.
I feel, however, that I have not been entirely precise in that characterization. It is true that he has flung many WoT recently about things that have happened in the game, but upon perusal they are largely based on statements of meta... such as that "Dakarian doesn't miss details" and "Dakarian doesn't use smileys," or perhaps that "Webadict is smarter than that as town."
If you are going to make an argument based on meta, you might do well to remember that Dakarian has more errors than perhaps any other mod in his votecounts. We cannot say that attention to detail is his forte.
Also, Dakarian uses precisely one smiley with high frequency: :P
Further, Webadict has been known to do incredibly stupid/random things as both town and scum.
The purpose of the above statements is to inform CobaltKobold that, if he is town, he would do well to reconsider his attacking style, as it is so full of holes that the only thing it will hold is viscous liquid. Such as scum.
Second, though he addresses the WIFOM-spreading, he does not address his apparent cautiousness. Further, all that crap about staged fights is nothing but a vat of WIFOM, and it constitutes most of his arguments against Webadict and perhaps half of the WoT against dakarian.
Third, his arguments continue to be horrifyingly flimsy. His statement was that he was pointing out "every scummy thing as it floated by, which doesn't look very town." This is not the issue I take with his statements. The problem is that he argues based on (extremely old) meta and, rather than searching for scumtells, seems to have confounded himself with "not-town-tells"--i.e., nulltells.
Further, the "appeals to emotion" he has found do not constitute true appeals to emotion. Everyone in this thread (a generalization, as I am sure someone has been lurking too much to complain) has complained about its length/ridiculousness here or elsewhere. The "appeals to emotion" he found in me were nothing but apologies after having made grating statements.
Next, he is tunnelvisioning to force his arguments to work:
Seriously guys. Stop the nonscum lynching. Killing Web because's he's a prick. Killing Shadow because he writes in 3 words for one day. Killing Eduren even though a nolynch will mean he frys (when we get close to lylo, it'll be another matter).So...uh...wow. Buddying on web after stagedfight.
He has no problem with the defense of eduren and SHAD0W, it seems, though of course Webadict is an issue.
Then, most of the inconsistencies and hypocrisies he "seems to have found" are actually applications of different thinking to different situations, such as calling Dakarian out for a claim request just before vigging ExKirby. This may simply just be inflexible thinking, however, so I push this one somewhat less strongly and ask merely that he think harder before posting.
Fourth, emotional excuses about having poor memory while he can somehow pull up SirBayer's Nuclear Rocket Surgeon quote out of thin air ... from BMIV's RVS, which is not exactly what I would call memorable. I define memorable here as an occurrence that engages the emotional brain (i.e. limbic system), as such events tend to stick in memory far better.
Fifth, there still remain inconsistencies in his arguments, which he has brushed over. When we were still functioning under the assumption that he had indeed spoken about the doctor in BMIV, he stated that his inconsistency was reasonable given that he had started playing Mafia two weeks ago. When I brought up the fact that he had started perhaps a month and a half ago, he completely brushed it off.
What I see here is an individual who is bending fact and, when someone brings up the fact that he is incorrect, does not correct himself, apologize, or bring up further reasoning. He forgets the point as soon as it has been noticed, perhaps in an attempt to cause others to forget as well.
Sixth, buddying. I refer here to the statements in his WoT which are merely stating that others agree with him, i.e. that Mr. Person and Webadict have had similar feelings about Dakarian's scummitude. If this does not constitute buddying, I will classify it as "an overblown fear of death and attempt to get others on his team," which fits well with his sudden WoT-spewage. It does not fit well with the behavior of a typical townie, in light of said townie's goals.
If I am incorrect about any of the above, please let me know. I have carefully combed through the recent statements in an attempt to figure out what, precisely, was bothering me about his statements. I can also attempt to furnish quotations if anything seems dubious, though for a post of this length and with finals coming up I don't exactly have the time.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 01, 2009, 11:26:53 pm
His attack on me was pretty uncanny.
How do you mean by that? So far, the only reason I can see for you voting for me is because I was pressuring you. Provide some reasoning.
It's quite simple really. I lynch CobaltKobld, therefore killing off someone that could hurt you(scum) AND you get a nice target(me) for tomorrow.
How could Cobalt hurt me? Why are you a target to me?
Post by: webadict on December 02, 2009, 12:45:26 am
Aha, THAT"S what was bothering me! Dakarian day kill! I never did understood why he decided to shoot at the beginning of day 2. If he was town, he should of shot Webadict near the end of day 1. The town wanted Webadict dead, we couldn't lynch him, the timing was perfect! Yet Dakarian decides to stay quiet. That's anti-town. Before anybody says "BUT ANTI-TOWN DON'T MEAN SCUMMY LOL", shut up. Anti-town means AGAINST the town, which means somebody we want to lynch.... THIS!
Oh, and I was just convinced by the fact Dakarian spent his entire last post defending himself when he said earlier that spending an entire post defending oneself is scummy, so vote Dakarian.
... It would all add up, except for he'd be scum from the start.
I knew I missed something.
He didn't want to kill me because he'd look scummy, and he didn't want to bring up his power... Why didn't he?
Also, props for Vector on that WoT.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 02, 2009, 05:58:22 am
Okay, that was the sound of Vector being a moron. I thought CobaltKobold had been more involved in arguments against MagmaDeath's "Vector is scum because he is alive" in BMIV. It turns out that I was mistaken, and my memories of his supportive behavior at the end of D4 were tainted by other events in the game.Magmadeath was the doctor, too.
Quote
That said, I still think he's scum based on his recent statements. I apologize for the lack of quotations in the below; they are partially because the behaviors are rampant, and partially because it is nearly impossible to dig them out of his crunched blocks of text.
This doesn't look good. "He's doing these things. I won't show you. It's hard."
Quote
First, his current arguments are based almost entirely on meta. Though that is not a conventional scumtell, I consider it scummy since it implies that everyone's in-game play does not seem so noteworthy to him as it does in the context of meta.
I feel, however, that I have not been entirely precise in that characterization. It is true that he has flung many WoT recently about things that have happened in the game, but upon perusal they are largely based on statements of meta... such as that "Dakarian doesn't miss details" and "Dakarian doesn't use smileys," or perhaps that "Webadict is smarter than that as town."
appeals to emotion and hypocrisy are more important to my attacks than meta. If you're complaining about evidence quantities, aberrant behaviors (A2E, buddying, etc) only require one point- the act in question, rather like evidence for a flood. Meta is more like stating that "the depth of the river year-round is X" and thus will require more data points. So yes, my main argument against Web is meta, which is why he's getting lower on my scumlist, as his meta has changed since the start of the game. I mentioned this.
Quote from: Vector
If you are going to make an argument based on meta, you might do well to remember that Dakarian has more errors than perhaps any other mod in his votecounts. We cannot say that attention to detail is his forte.That would be part of his meta as a mod. Is he a mod here? No.
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Also, Dakarian uses precisely one smiley with high frequency: :PPossible, but that's a tiny fillip of my metacase. It felt off to me, so I included it.
Quote
Further, Webadict has been known to do incredibly stupid/random things as both town and scum.My belief is that this is intentional and something that has been condemned elsewhere in the thread (throwing one game to be less susceptible to meta/be less preyed upon for being GLORIOUS WEBADICT). This is supported by the time in which his below-avatar text was "Lost his edge..." Before that it was "Legendary Mafia player" I think.
Quote from: Vector
The purpose of the above statements is to inform CobaltKobold that, if he is town, he would do well to reconsider his attacking style, as it is so full of holes that the only thing it will hold is viscous liquid. Such as scum.The icing my be holy, but there is still a cake beneath it.
Quote from: Vector
Second, though he addresses the WIFOM-spreading, he does not address his apparent cautiousness. Further, all that crap about staged fights is nothing but a vat of WIFOM, and it constitutes most of his arguments against Webadict and perhaps half of the WoT against dakarian.*shrug* It's my interpretation. It's been...interesting that they've been into each other all game. Also, the nature of the fights is very odd, since each of them are throwing mostly-bad arguments against eachother. "I have a hole but I'm not telling you" for instance.
Quote
Third, his arguments continue to be horrifyingly flimsy. His statement was that he was pointing out "every scummy thing as it floated by, which doesn't look very town." This is not the issue I take with his statements. The problem is that he argues based on (extremely old) meta and, rather than searching for scumtells, seems to have confounded himself with "not-town-tells"--i.e., nulltells.Null-tells would be either known self-used tells (which are going to be town-tells). I already pointed out above that there is quite a lot of reason to go after the people I did- I started the scan without a tab for Toony, but added him because he had come up with a number of odd things.
Quote
Further, the "appeals to emotion" he has found do not constitute true appeals to emotion. Everyone in this thread (a generalization, as I am sure someone has been lurking too much to complain) has complained about its length/ridiculousness here or elsewhere. The "appeals to emotion" he found in me were nothing but apologies after having made grating statements.There is quite a difference between
Quote from: dakarian
A bigger part tells me that Wide Scanning 19 people will make me cry. *sigh*and, something like "Yikes, 10 pages overnight"- for instance.
Quote from: vector
Next, he is tunnelvisioning to force his arguments to work:Since webadict is higher in my scumlists than either, yes, I point it out more. I do not "have no problem" with the other buddyings, but they are patently obvious and still present in the quoted matter. Shad0w is up for replacement.Seriously guys. Stop the nonscum lynching. Killing Web because's he's a prick. Killing Shadow because he writes in 3 words for one day. Killing Eduren even though a nolynch will mean he frys (when we get close to lylo, it'll be another matter).So...uh...wow. Buddying on web after stagedfight.
He has no problem with the defense of eduren and SHAD0W, it seems, though of course Webadict is an issue.
Quote
Then, most of the inconsistencies and hypocrisies he "seems to have found" are actually applications of different thinking to different situations, such as calling Dakarian out for a claim request just before vigging ExKirby. This may simply just be inflexible thinking, however, so I push this one somewhat less strongly and ask merely that he think harder before posting.I am pointing out that the "L-1" theory that dakarian is trying to foist on us is complete bullshit. Which is dakarian trying to apply the same thinking (as at L-1) to a different situation (daykill pointed at exkirby without, I stress, the town consensus that L-1 has).
Quote
Fourth, emotional excuses about having poor memory while he can somehow pull up SirBayer's Nuclear Rocket Surgeon quote out of thin air ... from BMIV's RVS, which is not exactly what I would call memorable. I define memorable here as an occurrence that engages the emotional brain (i.e. limbic system), as such events tend to stick in memory far better.The "poor memory" comments were because...I didn't remember it! In fact, I didn't remember it because...it didn't happen!
as for "nuclear rocket surgeon" engaging the emotional brain...Guess what? It did.
So, my role would be "Nuclear Rocket Surgeon."That's...pretty catchy, actually.
Quote
Fifth, there still remain inconsistencies in his arguments, which he has brushed over. When we were still functioning under the assumption that he had indeed spoken about the doctor in BMIV, he stated that his inconsistency was reasonable given that he had started playing Mafia two weeks ago. When I brought up the fact that he had started perhaps a month and a half ago, he completely brushed it off.Grasping at straws, I see. You're arguing that my "If it was my first two weeks" comment is bad because it wasn't my first two weeks. However, the point that I'm making with it- that it is still incredibly early in my mafia tenure (or whatever you want to call it)- does not hinge on that fact. So yes, I don't see it as a problem to be found as mistaken or incorrect on a fact that does not impact the game. Like, for instance, if I got your gender wrong. It would not matter for the game unless it was integral to some argument. So, a pronoun inconsistency would not be grounds for "lynch all liars".
What I see here is an individual who is bending fact and, when someone brings up the fact that he is incorrect, does not correct himself, apologize, or bring up further reasoning. He forgets the point as soon as it has been noticed, perhaps in an attempt to cause others to forget as well.
If you want a correction, then- if SMOL counts- yes, Oct 13 = about 6 weeks. If not, then the other three games I was in that are over started a week later, so 5 weeks.
Quote
Sixth, buddying. I refer here to the statements in his WoT which are merely stating that others agree with him, i.e. that Mr. Person and Webadict have had similar feelings about Dakarian's scummitude. If this does not constitute buddying, I will classify it as "an overblown fear of death and attempt to get others on his team," which fits well with his sudden WoT-spewage. It does not fit well with the behavior of a typical townie, in light of said townie's goals.That is not buddying as I understand or intend it- it is evidence gathering for meta. and..."an overblown fear of death and attempt to get others on his team"? I classify this as an overblown attack.
Quote
If I am incorrect about any of the above, please let me know. I have carefully combed through the recent statements in an attempt to figure out what, precisely, was bothering me about his statements. I can also attempt to furnish quotations if anything seems dubious, though for a post of this length and with finals coming up I don't exactly have the time.You are incorrect about most of the above.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 02, 2009, 06:51:18 am
Post by: dakarian on December 02, 2009, 10:36:17 am
So, starting back to "Dakarian Case"
1. first point destroys itself. You make a claim about me being bloodthirsty in RVS when it's..well. RVS. The entire point of RVS is to spark a reaction.
Also bloodthirstiness is NOT a scumtell.
2. The 'not dakarian' deal. No, I don't act the way I did when I first started playing. I've had half a year of postings and a large batch of ChatMafia to practice on. I use a good deal more aggression and emotion in my games now, especially when I'm in 'pressure' mode. Your meta is old for one thing.
Furthermore, for meta to actually WORK, you need a comparison. You need a 'scum-dakarian' to go along with a 'town-dakarian'. For that, you need Religious Mafia 2, KWN, and BYOR:ExKirby for a reference. Otherwise, you're pigeonholing me into what you think 'town-dakarian' should always do.
So I call BS on your Meta claims.
3. Arguments with Web. Creating scumteams never work out. I learned that way back in BM1 and my times as host have proven it time after time: when you create a 'team', you never catch all of the scum in it.
The point: you can only really look at scum-on-scum interactions AFTER one of the scum is confirmed.
That's why I linked ExKirby to Leafsnail, because Leafsnail was confirmed.
If you want to prove that Web or myself is scum, do it on individual terms. If you can't, you don't have scum on your hands.
4. Appeals to emotion: you aren't exactly sure what that term entails.
You appeal to emotion as a form of DEFENSE against an accusation. Someone attacks you, you get them to emphasize with you, and they pull off. Vector knows about this since he pulled it off on me in BM1.
AtE isn't EVERY SINGLE COMMENT that isn't attacking someone, which is exactly what you pulled.
5. Hypocritical
Already explained the ExKirby/Leaf vs Dakarian/Web situation. AFTER scum is confirmed you start linking, not before.
This can also be marked as tunnelvisioning at this point. For this argument to work you have to assume another unproven argument already works. You've yet to proven that me and Web are scumbuddies so saying I'm Hypocritical falls flat without it.
6. Point missing:
- Ok, so I DO make mistakes. Often. It's the basis behind my Scans: so I can pull accurate information.
Now here's the question: how is that scummy? For that matter, how is making mistakes 'undakarian'?
7. My daykill
-first off, it wasn't a superkill. Leafsnail's protection protects against NKs. My kill was a daykill so it bypassed the protection.
-second off, why didn't I use it on Webadict? Same reason why I didn't vote for him. I fought with him in Day 1 to get a read on him and what I found didn't show off scum. When the town charged headlong into web, I read the reasons and found them lacking:
-1. His fight with me: I found him unscummy after that fight, so others seeing scum in that same fight wouldn't convince me.
-2. His attitude: I saw quite a bit of "I don't like you attitude". It felt like a policy lynch just to 'get the jerk'. I dislike policy lynches: lynches are for SCUM, not for jerks, or lurkers, or anti-towns, or anything else.
Those were pretty much the main attacks against web. With that, no, he won't get my vote and like hell he'll get my one-shot kill.
Why didn't I use it at all day 1? Day 1 has almost no good information to work off of and I felt I'd be alive for at least that long. Since my power goes away after Day 3, I was left either shooting on Day 2 or taking a chance on Day 3. I took the safer route and claimed on Day 2.
Didn't work, but meh, that was the ideas I had.
8. The 'you will suit well as a lynch' bit vs Mr.Person.
I was still pressuring Mr.Person at that point. When I was finally finished pressuring and started seeking his lynch I called him scum.
9. Telling Web to save it until lylo
He wanted a MC to use his powers on. MCs come at lylo or close to lylo. Thus the suggestion. Again, he's best off just going after someone who claims instead, which can be done much earlier.
10. Third vote
You claim you don't care for it, yet you readily use it when its on me? Funny that.
11. "One, you point out how lots of time and posts is a good thing, the other, you're complaining about it. Feels hypocritical."
Just because it's a good thing doesn't mean it's EASY to handle.
Btw, how in the world is that scummy even IF it's true?
12. Dakarian = Logically, with well-structured, well-researched arguments, and not appealing to emotion.
Old meta is old.
ChatMafia changed a good bit in me.
13. The 'give scum two mislynchs'
It IS wifom. I'm trying to give the town a free lynch.. but that's what I want you to think!
You're trying to outguess me. That's the basis behind wifom.
Meanwhile, Mr.Person made a few assumptions when he "What the hell"ed me, which he relented on soon after. Most of the rest of the community AGREED with the kill and ExKirby didn't exactly defend himself. Thus, we was offed.
As far as the ExKirby situation as a whole: when I presented the argument, he first responds with a "I was away" post then this little number.
Quote
Yes. You get bent.
Seriously though, in the current condition, you're dead in two ways, on the basis that you're the only one who is aiming at me. Either you don't kill me, and the mafia kill you to remove the vig, or you kill me and everyone suspects you.
Instead of actually talking ABOUT the points, he threatens me.
Question dodge, deflection.
Vector commented on it afterwards
sirbayer supports it afterwards. Toonyman dislikes his actions soon after. Mephansteras votes for him, Eduren agrees soon after.
You, meanwhile, weren't around the whole time and, after the daykill, you make this comment about it:
"Kills exkirby while he's asleep/asked for a replacement"
Funny, since you're so pushy about 'not getting things wrong' that you missed Exkirby responding to me with defeatism and threats rather than a defense. A few others noticed: those above went against him BECAUSE of those statement.
So no, he wasn't asleep and he had plenty of time to defend himself.
Lastly:
Quote
They're your scummy actions-I shouldn't have to explain your actions. Explaining why they're scummy- that I'm doing. (Assuming people will grasp a concept when I display only necessary steps is a failing of mine sometimes.)
The problem is that for much of them you DON'T explain why they are scummy. A one word "that's bad" is NOT explaining yourself. I have to guess at 'why' you thought something looked bad in order to speak about them, and at that point I'm creating the argument for you.
In fact, that's really a large batch of your arguments. You're pulling just about everything I did that you didn't like and molding it into some mass theory based on what you think I SHOULD act like.
I'm not the Perfect Robot Player that you think I am and frankly, I dislike the idea of getting lynched because of it.
Post by: SirBayer on December 02, 2009, 02:10:33 pm
Cheeetar, I complained about you not giving reasons. Haven't heard comments from you on that yet.
So, Dak + Vector vs. Cobalt. I see a very limited set of possibilities. I'm sure I'm stating the obvious here, but at least for my own reference, I need to write this out.
Spoiler: Possibilities (click to show/hide)
So we need to find out whether Cobalt is scum or town, then analyze the attacks Dakarian and Vector are making on her. I don't doubt that someone here is trying to bus the scumbuddy, presuming Cobalt is scum. It's far too easy to just finish her off. In fact, I'm willing to bet that half or more of the scumteam is actually voting for her right now or was at some point in the recent past.
I wonder if Dakarian is the scumbuddy trying to bus. Mephansteras' confirming him as town makes sense. Alternatively, Dak and Meph are town, Vector is scum. However...
tl;dr: We need to finish off Cobalt, then determine who is scum or not. We can afford a few more unfortunate mislynches, and this lynch, mis or otherwise, will give us a LOT of information.
(If you can't figure out how I arrived at that conclusion, I apologize. I'm terrible at writing out my work.)
Post by: ToonyMan on December 02, 2009, 02:29:25 pm
His attack on me was pretty uncanny.
How do you mean by that? So far, the only reason I can see for you voting for me is because I was pressuring you. Provide some reasoning.
It's quite simple really. I lynch CobaltKobld, therefore killing off someone that could hurt you(scum) AND you get a nice target(me) for tomorrow.
How could Cobalt hurt me? Why are you a target to me?
You = Scum
Remember? Check your role PM.
@dakarian:
I read over your most recent post and can't find anything about the convert.
Post by: dakarian on December 02, 2009, 02:50:40 pm
Mind bringing up my statement that brought the question on? Why would you be able to tell why scum didn't kill you?
@Toony
Unless I missed it, Cobalt didn't make much of a mention about the convert matter.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 02, 2009, 02:56:54 pm
D:
Nah it's cool, take your time.
Post by: dakarian on December 02, 2009, 03:04:45 pm
Post by: SirBayer on December 02, 2009, 03:07:31 pm
Damn, this means I'll have to go post-hunting. Maybe I won't press that issue. ._.
Nah, I'll find it sooner or later.
Post by: Vector on December 02, 2009, 03:22:25 pm
QuoteThat said, I still think he's scum based on his recent statements. I apologize for the lack of quotations in the below; they are partially because the behaviors are rampant, and partially because it is nearly impossible to dig them out of his crunched blocks of text.
This doesn't look good. "He's doing these things. I won't show you. It's hard."
Busy, dude. "He's doing these things. I'll provide examples which people will easily find the actual quotations for, but I'm not going to go dig through his Posts from Hell to quote every single little thing."
Soft hits. Scared of me?
QuoteFirst, his current arguments are based almost entirely on meta. Though that is not a conventional scumtell, I consider it scummy since it implies that everyone's in-game play does not seem so noteworthy to him as it does in the context of meta.
I feel, however, that I have not been entirely precise in that characterization. It is true that he has flung many WoT recently about things that have happened in the game, but upon perusal they are largely based on statements of meta... such as that "Dakarian doesn't miss details" and "Dakarian doesn't use smileys," or perhaps that "Webadict is smarter than that as town."
appeals to emotion and hypocrisy are more important to my attacks than meta. If you're complaining about evidence quantities, aberrant behaviors (A2E, buddying, etc) only require one point- the act in question, rather like evidence for a flood. Meta is more like stating that "the depth of the river year-round is X" and thus will require more data points. So yes, my main argument against Web is meta, which is why he's getting lower on my scumlist, as his meta has changed since the start of the game. I mentioned this.
I'm not talking about evidence quantities. I'm saying that all your "appeals to emotion" you cited were... found in practically every single other player. As such, they are null. If half the town is lurking to the same degree, then you cannot base most of your argument against a given player on lurking that much. It just doesn't work that way.
Further, as I've been saying: most of your stated "hypocrisy" is not hypocritical at all. You like throwing that word around like it's candy, whereas most of what I see is "CobaltKobold is trying to get everybody lynched on the mildest of offenses." Then, you also end up just going "HYPOCRISY! CONTRADICTION!" with very little explanation whatsoever. At the very least, it's severely anti-town. At the most, it's scummy.
Quote from: VectorThe purpose of the above statements is to inform CobaltKobold that, if he is town, he would do well to reconsider his attacking style, as it is so full of holes that the only thing it will hold is viscous liquid. Such as scum.The icing my be holy, but there is still a cake beneath it.
The cake is a lie.
Quote from: VectorSecond, though he addresses the WIFOM-spreading, he does not address his apparent cautiousness. Further, all that crap about staged fights is nothing but a vat of WIFOM, and it constitutes most of his arguments against Webadict and perhaps half of the WoT against dakarian.*shrug* It's my interpretation. It's been...interesting that they've been into each other all game. Also, the nature of the fights is very odd, since each of them are throwing mostly-bad arguments against eachother. "I have a hole but I'm not telling you" for instance.
You have a duty not to WIFOM the town. The fact that you are doing so happily bothers me.
QuoteThird, his arguments continue to be horrifyingly flimsy. His statement was that he was pointing out "every scummy thing as it floated by, which doesn't look very town." This is not the issue I take with his statements. The problem is that he argues based on (extremely old) meta and, rather than searching for scumtells, seems to have confounded himself with "not-town-tells"--i.e., nulltells.Null-tells would be either known self-used tells (which are going to be town-tells).
Uh.... no. Null-tells are things that players do when they are town or scum. We have three options: town-tells, null-tells, and scumtells. The fact that Dakarian is acting in a way that does not coincide with his town-tells does not mean that he is displaying his scumtells, or is even scum.
Null-tells are either known self-used tells, or... what? What I'm saying here is that you really aren't doing much by way of identifying scumtells. Mostly, you're sitting about digging up nulltells, and asking us to believe you're town.
QuoteFurther, the "appeals to emotion" he has found do not constitute true appeals to emotion. Everyone in this thread (a generalization, as I am sure someone has been lurking too much to complain) has complained about its length/ridiculousness here or elsewhere. The "appeals to emotion" he found in me were nothing but apologies after having made grating statements.There is quite a difference betweenQuote from: dakarianA bigger part tells me that Wide Scanning 19 people will make me cry. *sigh*and, something like "Yikes, 10 pages overnight"- for instance.
Yes. That difference is called "personality." Are we allowed to have those, or has King Kobold banned them, too?
Quote from: vectorNext, he is tunnelvisioning to force his arguments to work:Since webadict is higher in my scumlists than either, yes, I point it out more. I do not "have no problem" with the other buddyings, but they are patently obvious and still present in the quoted matter. Shad0w is up for replacement.Seriously guys. Stop the nonscum lynching. Killing Web because's he's a prick. Killing Shadow because he writes in 3 words for one day. Killing Eduren even though a nolynch will mean he frys (when we get close to lylo, it'll be another matter).So...uh...wow. Buddying on web after stagedfight.
He has no problem with the defense of eduren and SHAD0W, it seems, though of course Webadict is an issue.
Right.
They're patently obvious, but you never explicitly point them out. You're expecting us to do your work for you, which ... well, it makes me pissed at you, at the very least. You don't get to say "Well, I pointed it out by virtue of throwing a mass of quotes at you." I continue to find your reasoning highly suspect.
I feel like you're saying "Well, you're just too dumb to understand what I mean, then, what with my sesquipedalian diction," to which I answer "screw you." Being smart includes knowing how to communicate, not just dicking around with things that are so obvious to you and so unobvious to us, the idiots. This feeling increases when I remember the argument with Cheeetar, where you defined a "referent" as
referent: concept to which an indexical refers.
"An indexical?" Really? If you're going to bash us for spelling incorrectly (sware vs. swear), how about learning to use the correct form of a word?
QuoteFifth, there still remain inconsistencies in his arguments, which he has brushed over. When we were still functioning under the assumption that he had indeed spoken about the doctor in BMIV, he stated that his inconsistency was reasonable given that he had started playing Mafia two weeks ago. When I brought up the fact that he had started perhaps a month and a half ago, he completely brushed it off.Grasping at straws, I see. You're arguing that my "If it was my first two weeks" comment is bad because it wasn't my first two weeks. However, the point that I'm making with it- that it is still incredibly early in my mafia tenure (or whatever you want to call it)- does not hinge on that fact. So yes, I don't see it as a problem to be found as mistaken or incorrect on a fact that does not impact the game. Like, for instance, if I got your gender wrong. It would not matter for the game unless it was integral to some argument. So, a pronoun inconsistency would not be grounds for "lynch all liars".
What I see here is an individual who is bending fact and, when someone brings up the fact that he is incorrect, does not correct himself, apologize, or bring up further reasoning. He forgets the point as soon as it has been noticed, perhaps in an attempt to cause others to forget as well.
No. My point is not about that specific inconsistency. It is about the part where I made a remark about your being inconsistent, and you ignored it until I brought it up... again. In combination with Dakarian's noticing you ignoring his attacks so many times, it is scummy in the extreme.
Further, it did seem to influence the game at the time. As such, your failure to make any statement about it is suspect.
If it's so small, why not own up to it? Why not address it? Instead, you leave it out and later cover by saying "But that wasn't important!!"
QuoteSixth, buddying. I refer here to the statements in his WoT which are merely stating that others agree with him, i.e. that Mr. Person and Webadict have had similar feelings about Dakarian's scummitude. If this does not constitute buddying, I will classify it as "an overblown fear of death and attempt to get others on his team," which fits well with his sudden WoT-spewage. It does not fit well with the behavior of a typical townie, in light of said townie's goals.That is not buddying as I understand or intend it- it is evidence gathering for meta. and..."an overblown fear of death and attempt to get others on his team"? I classify this as an overblown attack.
Ah, so your experience of meta is "Other people think the person is scum."
If you want to explain why that attack is overblown, I'd be happy to hear about it. As-is, you're doing that thing again where you attack me and don't explain anything.
Post by: Rashilul on December 02, 2009, 03:38:58 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on December 02, 2009, 03:40:17 pm
Happy one month anniversary!
I still have another day AKA content-less post.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 02, 2009, 04:12:59 pm
How could Cobalt hurt me? Why are you a target to me?
You = Scum
Remember? Check your role PM.
Yes, but if I were scum why would I particularly target you or Cobalt? Cobalt hasn't voted for me to my knowledge, and killing you after you had OMGUSed me would be a horrible nightkill choice, as it would place suspicion on me.
Cheeetar, I complained about you not giving reasons. Haven't heard comments from you on that yet.
To my knowledge, I have been giving reasons, but perhaps you could point out some occasions where that hasn't been the case.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 02, 2009, 04:17:26 pm
How could Cobalt hurt me? Why are you a target to me?
You = Scum
Remember? Check your role PM.
Yes, but if I were scum why would I particularly target you or Cobalt? Cobalt hasn't voted for me to my knowledge, and killing you after you had OMGUSed me would be a horrible nightkill choice, as it would place suspicion on me.
Stop playing stupid.
I would hammer CobaltKobold, then you have a target for the next day.
Netting two town if you get me lynched the next day. Of course, this is old news.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 02, 2009, 04:19:21 pm
How could Cobalt hurt me? Why are you a target to me?
You = Scum
Remember? Check your role PM.
Yes, but if I were scum why would I particularly target you or Cobalt? Cobalt hasn't voted for me to my knowledge, and killing you after you had OMGUSed me would be a horrible nightkill choice, as it would place suspicion on me.
Stop playing stupid.
I would hammer CobaltKobold, then you have a target for the next day.
Netting two town if you get me lynched the next day. Of course, this is old news.
Start explaining yourself. Why would I specifically target you and Cobalt. Make a step by step plan. You aren't making sense.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 02, 2009, 04:28:39 pm
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg894492#msg894492
Post by: ToonyMan on December 02, 2009, 04:29:19 pm
Post by: SirBayer on December 02, 2009, 04:58:33 pm
Post by: dakarian on December 02, 2009, 05:13:15 pm
Thus I request a forced replacement for Rash.
No, I'm NOT joking.
Post by: Rashilul on December 02, 2009, 06:07:30 pm
Post by: webadict on December 02, 2009, 06:32:15 pm
Post by: dakarian on December 02, 2009, 06:44:44 pm
We fuss about people like Org and ExKirby and what not but they DO post and when they post they write some attempt at an argument.
From you though.. we don't get ANYTHING. Your votes are purely random, and they are flung all over the place: and that's your most interactive. Now we don't even get that.
I placed you as on of my targets. I've asked for information. We pressured. There's been a mountain of events going on in one of the longest games ever.
And what do we get?
About what?
By standards I do not believe in policy lynches. Even people who lurk a ton should play even if they are annoying.
That above.. that's what you've been given. It's beyond just keeping out of the limelight. It's beyond just odd behavior. It's beyond even anti-town. You aren't even playing anymore.
So yes, I want you gone. I don't want you lynched. I want you removed. Replaced or modkilled I don't care, but you're gone, and if this is all you can offer then like hell you're playing in any game I'm hosting.
Clear now?
Post by: ToonyMan on December 02, 2009, 07:00:06 pm
Post by: Rashilul on December 02, 2009, 07:03:19 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on December 02, 2009, 07:06:39 pm
Well, I think that Dak has summed up my feelings about a month long 109 page game pretty well.
Nope, you can't say that. You didn't participate at all the whole game so far
Post by: webadict on December 02, 2009, 07:08:39 pm
Yeah, you've didn't even try to do anything.Well, I think that Dak has summed up my feelings about a month long 109 page game pretty well.
Nope, you can't say that. You didn't participate at all the whole game so fart.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 02, 2009, 10:46:18 pm
Dude, we went over this A DAY AGO. I hate re-explaining this so...
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg894492#msg894492
...that dosen't explain anything.
LIST WHY, STEP BY STEP.
As in:
1. I nightkilled you.
2. This is why you percieve me as a threat.
3. Also, Cobalt also night-killed you.
4. He is also a threat.
WHY ARE YOU A TARGET TO ME?
WHY AM I SUSPICIOUS TO YOU?
WHY IS COBALT A TARGET TO ME?
Also, what changed your mind about Cobalt being a scum? Don't just quote a post and leave it. Quote a post, explain which parts. Put some effort in.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 02, 2009, 11:01:13 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 03, 2009, 10:52:28 am
And by 'I' I am speaking from your perspective.Could you two please use the names instead of "I" and "you" in these arguments where the
@Sirbayer: Your possibilities didn't span the set. You left out all three scum for some reason. also, I think
Thus putting an FOS on SirBayer to hear the resolution of the doc issue.miht be it.
Maybe I won't press that issue. ._.Also, don't be cautious-scum, or we lynch you.
Ok, instead of addressing every point directly(since, when I try it, I either have to leave every quote in, making it a horrible mess of a WOT or take them out, leaving it unreadable), I'll take on the topics themselves.
So, starting back to "Dakarian Case"
1. first point destroys itself. You make a claim about me being bloodthirsty in RVS when it's..well. RVS. The entire point of RVS is to spark a reaction.
Also bloodthirstiness is NOT a scumtell.[/quote]Bloodthirstiness, no. Lynch-anyone-period-bandwagon,yes.
Quote
2. The 'not dakarian' deal. No, I don't act the way I did when I first started playing. I've had half a year of postings and a large batch of ChatMafia to practice on. I use a good deal more aggression and emotion in my games now, especially when I'm in 'pressure' mode. Your meta is old for one thing.I call BS on your selfmeta. Also, the answer to your question "How should I play?" was not answering to your meta primarily (though tht was how you played)- it was how you should play, and secondarily how you DID play.
Furthermore, for meta to actually WORK, you need a comparison. You need a 'scum-dakarian' to go along with a 'town-dakarian'. For that, you need Religious Mafia 2, KWN, and BYOR:ExKirby for a reference. Otherwise, you're pigeonholing me into what you think 'town-dakarian' should always do.
So I call BS on your Meta claims.
If you're not displaying your town-tells, then...you're either a. changing your meta (hurts town) or b. not displaying them because you're not town (hurts town).
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3. Arguments with Web. Creating scumteams never work out. I learned that way back in BM1 and my times as host have proven it time after time: when you create a 'team', you never catch all of the scum in it.Lay the groundwork now, follow it (or, in unlikely towndak case, not) after you flip.
The point: you can only really look at scum-on-scum interactions AFTER one of the scum is confirmed.
That's why I linked ExKirby to Leafsnail, because Leafsnail was confirmed.
If you want to prove that Web or myself is scum, do it on individual terms. If you can't, you don't have scum on your hands.
Quote
4. Appeals to emotion: you aren't exactly sure what that term entails.If I'm not using the term as is usual in mafia, forgive me. But you are appealing to emotion with "Pages...*cry*" using the same mechanism. Why should it matter whether you're under attack? Wouldn't it be more effective to get people sympathising, perhaps subconsciously, before anybody is under fire? Isn't this why people shun/attack jokes?
You appeal to emotion as a form of DEFENSE against an accusation. Someone attacks you, you get them to emphasize with you, and they pull off. Vector knows about this since he pulled it off on me in BM1.
AtE isn't EVERY SINGLE COMMENT that isn't attacking someone, which is exactly what you pulled.
Quote from: dakarian
5. Hypocriticalthat is only one case where I called you a hypocrite. Others (like the many complaints about the 'mess' and '*cry* much to scan but nothing comes up *kick*' contrasted with 'mafiascum hammer games take 9 days for first day'...or times when you are inconsistent with yourself (save cheat 'til lylo vs not)-Oh, and your "save until lylo argument" is...WIFOM!
Already explained the ExKirby/Leaf vs Dakarian/Web situation. AFTER scum is confirmed you start linking, not before.
This can also be marked as tunnelvisioning at this point. For this argument to work you have to assume another unproven argument already works. You've yet to proven that me and Web are scumbuddies so saying I'm Hypocritical falls flat without it.
Save it until lylo, since the mafia don't seem afraid of it or else they'd kill you already while you were still blocked.Sorry, you're not wiggling out of this.
Quote
6. Point missing:You generally don't miss points. (you're calling this 'old meta' it seems)
- Ok, so I DO make mistakes. Often. It's the basis behind my Scans: so I can pull accurate information.
Now here's the question: how is that scummy? For that matter, how is making mistakes 'undakarian'?
Quote
7. My daykillSuperkill=bypasses protection, so functionally equivalent is my point
-first off, it wasn't a superkill. Leafsnail's protection protects against NKs. My kill was a daykill so it bypassed the protection.
Quote
-second off, why didn't I use it on Webadict? Same reason why I didn't vote for him. I fought with him in Day 1 to get a read on him and what I found didn't show off scum. When the town charged headlong into web, I read the reasons and found them lacking:So you admit you were being selfish about it. I mean, if you weren't going to hammer, then ok- you could have either gone with the slightly smaller consensus OR put it out there "If someone else wants to hammer, don't, I'll kill him instead and we get two lynches". Treat it like Alex-chan's ability.
-1. His fight with me: I found him unscummy after that fight, so others seeing scum in that same fight wouldn't convince me.
-2. His attitude: I saw quite a bit of "I don't like you attitude". It felt like a policy lynch just to 'get the jerk'. I dislike policy lynches: lynches are for SCUM, not for jerks, or lurkers, or anti-towns, or anything else.
Those were pretty much the main attacks against web. With that, no, he won't get my vote and like hell he'll get my one-shot kill.
Quote
8. The 'you will suit well as a lynch' bit vs Mr.Person.addressed above under hypocrisy
I was still pressuring Mr.Person at that point. When I was finally finished pressuring and started seeking his lynch I called him scum.
9. Telling Web to save it until lylo
He wanted a MC to use his powers on. MCs come at lylo or close to lylo. Thus the suggestion. Again, he's best off just going after someone who claims instead, which can be done much earlier.
Quote
10. Third vote"Funny that" without explanation. I have
You claim you don't care for it, yet you readily use it when its on me? Funny that.
1. It's something that you're claiming points scum on others and are trying to wave off from your attacks (more hypocrisy)
2. It's showing up (as you point out) rather like a cherry on top of any good scum evidence pile
3. I figured out what was wrong with my original theory about the statistics (3/4 of 9)-third/fourth not to be late to party, but to avoid being prime/second (high-visibility) and to avoid hammer (fifth), but helping to build a wagon.
Quote
11. "One, you point out how lots of time and posts is a good thing, the other, you're complaining about it. Feels hypocritical."More posts, more to analyze, yet you complain.
Just because it's a good thing doesn't mean it's EASY to handle.
Btw, how in the world is that scummy even IF it's true?
Quote
12. Dakarian = Logically, with well-structured, well-researched arguments, and not appealing to emotion.I said above, this is way ANYONE should play. IF your meta is changing from 'ideal town player'...
Old meta is old.
ChatMafia changed a good bit in me.
Quote
13. The 'give scum two mislynchs'Um...yeah. Wow. You're pointing out/creating your OWN WIFOM and trying to say that it's mine. No.
It IS wifom. I'm trying to give the town a free lynch.. but that's what I want you to think!
You're trying to outguess me. That's the basis behind wifom.
Quote
"Kills exkirby while he's asleep/asked for a replacement"The defeatism appears to be crossgame, not because he's scum here (And look! We can even point out that he wasn't scum here!)- that he always gets quickly lynched for being exkirby.
Funny, since you're so pushy about 'not getting things wrong' that you missed Exkirby responding to me with defeatism and threats rather than a defense. A few others noticed: those above went against him BECAUSE of those statement.
Quote from: dakarian
See above "That's funny" you're pulling on my "third vote use", where you are doing the EXACT SAME THING. Hypocrite.QuoteThey're your scummy actions-I shouldn't have to explain your actions. Explaining why they're scummy- that I'm doing. (Assuming people will grasp a concept when I display only necessary steps is a failing of mine sometimes.)
The problem is that for much of them you DON'T explain why they are scummy. A one word "that's bad" is NOT explaining yourself. I have to guess at 'why' you thought something looked bad in order to speak about them, and at that point I'm creating the argument for you.
Quote from: dakarian
In fact, that's really a large batch of your arguments. You're pulling just about everything I did that you didn't like and molding it into some mass theory based on what you think I SHOULD act like.See prior statement, hypocrite
Quote
I'm not the Perfect Robot Player that you think I am and frankly, I dislike the idea of getting lynched because of it.Fear of death, noted.
QuoteThat said, I still think he's scum based on his recent statements. I apologize for the lack of quotations in the below; they are partially because the behaviors are rampant, and partially because it is nearly impossible to dig them out of his crunched blocks of text.
This doesn't look good. "He's doing these things. I won't show you. It's hard."
Busy, dude. "He's doing these things. I'll provide examples which people will easily find the actual quotations for, but I'm not going to go dig through his Posts from Hell to quote every single little thing."
Soft hits. Scared of me?
Quote from: Hard hits got orphaned because I was cut/pasting them. Found 'em.
QuoteI feel, however, that I have not been entirely precise in that characterization."I am attacking but hedging my bets." = CAUTIOUS. lso, making other people fill in your arguments = scum:
"No particular statements because it's blatant and general" = I'm not supporting my arguments also I am attacking meta vs "Meta is not a traditional scumtell"QuoteThen, most of the inconsistencies and hypocrisies he "seems to have found" are actually applications of different thinking to different situations, such as calling Dakarian out for a claim request just before vigging ExKirby. This may simply just be inflexible thinking, however, so I push this one somewhat less strongly and ask merely that he think harder before posting.-more caution. Vector.
"It turns out that I was mistaken," followed by "Fifth, there still remain inconsistencies in his arguments, which he has brushed over."-hypocrisy- brushing over own mistakes, followed by accusing me of same.
" I apologize for the lack of quotations in the below; they are partially because the behaviors are rampant, and partially because it is nearly impossible to dig them out of his crunched blocks of text." vs. "I have carefully combed through the recent statements in an attempt to figure out what, precisely, was bothering me about his statements." apparent inconsistency.
Quote
I'm not talking about evidence quantities. I'm saying that all your "appeals to emotion" you cited were... found in practically every single other player. As such, they are null. If half the town is lurking to the same degree, then you cannot base most of your argument against a given player on lurking that much. It just doesn't work that way...if half the town is acting scummy, then I can't base my arguments against them based on that scumminess? This makes no sense, Vector. Stop grasping at straws.
Quote
Further, as I've been saying: most of your stated "hypocrisy" is not hypocritical at all. You like throwing that word around like it's candy, whereas most of what I see is "CobaltKobold is trying to get everybody lynched on the mildest of offenses." Then, you also end up just going "HYPOCRISY! CONTRADICTION!" with very little explanation whatsoever. At the very least, it's severely anti-town. At the most, it's scummy.Finding inconsistencies is serious stuff, because scum are far, FAR more likely to be inconsistent.
Quote from: Vector
A joke? Vector?Quote from: VectorThe purpose of the above statements is to inform CobaltKobold that, if he is town, he would do well to reconsider his attacking style, as it is so full of holes that the only thing it will hold is viscous liquid. Such as scum.The icing my be holy, but there is still a cake beneath it.
The cake is a lie.
Quote
Happily? I retracted the statement, didn't I?Quote from: VectorSecond, though he addresses the WIFOM-spreading, he does not address his apparent cautiousness. Further, all that crap about staged fights is nothing but a vat of WIFOM, and it constitutes most of his arguments against Webadict and perhaps half of the WoT against dakarian.*shrug* It's my interpretation. It's been...interesting that they've been into each other all game. Also, the nature of the fights is very odd, since each of them are throwing mostly-bad arguments against eachother. "I have a hole but I'm not telling you" for instance.
You have a duty not to WIFOM the town. The fact that you are doing so happily bothers me.
Quote
I treat a bit more as meta than you do, I think. if someone is known for (town)strong arguments, and gives weak ones- that's both scummy(weak arguments) and metascummy(different to their town meta).QuoteThird, his arguments continue to be horrifyingly flimsy. His statement was that he was pointing out "every scummy thing as it floated by, which doesn't look very town." This is not the issue I take with his statements. The problem is that he argues based on (extremely old) meta and, rather than searching for scumtells, seems to have confounded himself with "not-town-tells"--i.e., nulltells.Null-tells would be either known self-used tells (which are going to be town-tells).
Uh.... no. Null-tells are things that players do when they are town or scum. We have three options: town-tells, null-tells, and scumtells. The fact that Dakarian is acting in a way that does not coincide with his town-tells does not mean that he is displaying his scumtells, or is even scum.
Null-tells are either known self-used tells, or... what? What I'm saying here is that you really aren't doing much by way of identifying scumtells. Mostly, you're sitting about digging up nulltells, and asking us to believe you're town.
Quote
No, that difference is the difference between commenting on something and hamming it up to get the town on your side for no good reason.QuoteFurther, the "appeals to emotion" he has found do not constitute true appeals to emotion. Everyone in this thread (a generalization, as I am sure someone has been lurking too much to complain) has complained about its length/ridiculousness here or elsewhere. The "appeals to emotion" he found in me were nothing but apologies after having made grating statements.There is quite a difference betweenQuote from: dakarianA bigger part tells me that Wide Scanning 19 people will make me cry. *sigh*and, something like "Yikes, 10 pages overnight"- for instance.
Yes. That difference is called "personality." Are we allowed to have those, or has King Kobold banned them, too?
Also, Queen Kobold.
Quote
I pointed it out by virtue of throwing a mass of quotes at you. I suppose saying "Here we find three buddyings, including, suspiciously, webadict!" would be superior, but communication has been a problem for me, clearly.Quote from: vectorNext, he is tunnelvisioning to force his arguments to work:Since webadict is higher in my scumlists than either, yes, I point it out more. I do not "have no problem" with the other buddyings, but they are patently obvious and still present in the quoted matter. Shad0w is up for replacement.Seriously guys. Stop the nonscum lynching. Killing Web because's he's a prick. Killing Shadow because he writes in 3 words for one day. Killing Eduren even though a nolynch will mean he frys (when we get close to lylo, it'll be another matter).So...uh...wow. Buddying on web after stagedfight.
He has no problem with the defense of eduren and SHAD0W, it seems, though of course Webadict is an issue.
Right.
They're patently obvious, but you never explicitly point them out. You're expecting us to do your work for you, which ... well, it makes me pissed at you, at the very least. You don't get to say "Well, I pointed it out by virtue of throwing a mass of quotes at you." I continue to find your reasoning highly suspect.
Quote
I feel like you're saying "Well, you're just too dumb to understand what I mean, then, what with my sesquipedalian diction," to which I answer "screw you." Being smart includes knowing how to communicate, not just dicking around with things that are so obvious to you and so unobvious to us, the idiots. This feeling increases when I remember the argument with Cheeetar, where you defined a "referent" asI am using the correct form of the word. (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/indexical) Indexical as noun: an indexical statement: a statement pointing at something else. "An index" does not contain this meaning.referent: concept to which an indexical refers.
"An indexical?" Really? If you're going to bash us for spelling incorrectly (sware vs. swear), how about learning to use the correct form of a word?
Quote
I have made statements, I have addressed it.QuoteFifth, there still remain inconsistencies in his arguments, which he has brushed over. When we were still functioning under the assumption that he had indeed spoken about the doctor in BMIV, he stated that his inconsistency was reasonable given that he had started playing Mafia two weeks ago. When I brought up the fact that he had started perhaps a month and a half ago, he completely brushed it off.Grasping at straws, I see. You're arguing that my "If it was my first two weeks" comment is bad because it wasn't my first two weeks. However, the point that I'm making with it- that it is still incredibly early in my mafia tenure (or whatever you want to call it)- does not hinge on that fact. So yes, I don't see it as a problem to be found as mistaken or incorrect on a fact that does not impact the game. Like, for instance, if I got your gender wrong. It would not matter for the game unless it was integral to some argument. So, a pronoun inconsistency would not be grounds for "lynch all liars".
What I see here is an individual who is bending fact and, when someone brings up the fact that he is incorrect, does not correct himself, apologize, or bring up further reasoning. He forgets the point as soon as it has been noticed, perhaps in an attempt to cause others to forget as well.
No. My point is not about that specific inconsistency. It is about the part where I made a remark about your being inconsistent, and you ignored it until I brought it up... again. In combination with Dakarian's noticing you ignoring his attacks so many times, it is scummy in the extreme.
Further, it did seem to influence the game at the time. As such, your failure to make any statement about it is suspect.
If it's so small, why not own up to it? Why not address it? Instead, you leave it out and later cover by saying "But that wasn't important!!"
Quote
[/quote]No, it's that other people were commenting -not that the person was scum- but that their behavior(meta) was off. The overblown is because I knocked down the rest of your attacks.QuoteSixth, buddying. I refer here to the statements in his WoT which are merely stating that others agree with him, i.e. that Mr. Person and Webadict have had similar feelings about Dakarian's scummitude. If this does not constitute buddying, I will classify it as "an overblown fear of death and attempt to get others on his team," which fits well with his sudden WoT-spewage. It does not fit well with the behavior of a typical townie, in light of said townie's goals.That is not buddying as I understand or intend it- it is evidence gathering for meta. and..."an overblown fear of death and attempt to get others on his team"? I classify this as an overblown attack.
Ah, so your experience of meta is "Other people think the person is scum."
If you want to explain why that attack is overblown, I'd be happy to hear about it. As-is, you're doing that thing again where you attack me and don't explain anything.
And now again. The house of cards tumbles down...
Post by: webadict on December 03, 2009, 11:25:13 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 03, 2009, 11:45:55 am
Post by: webadict on December 03, 2009, 12:01:38 pm
Oh boohoo. You were at L-1 before and you STILL didn't claim.
Post by: dakarian on December 03, 2009, 01:39:34 pm
Bloodthirstiness, no. Lynch-anyone-period-bandwagon,yes.
Ok.. you are saying I'm trying to bandwagon and lynch anyone... in RVS..
"lynch anyone period" in..RVS.
This isn't a small thing to me. This is an example of your entire argument. You take any statement, then mold and twist it into any form of scumtell you wish it to be.
I mean you're taking a RANDOM VOTE, the FIRST post I've made in the game, the first vote I've made when I was the first voter on Mr.Person and you made a serious accusation out of it!
I'm calling 'Tunnelvision' now. You just don't care anymore. You just want me lynched and looking for any means to do it.
Quote
I call BS on your selfmeta. Also, the answer to your question "How should I play?" was not answering to your meta primarily (though tht was how you played)- it was how you should play, and secondarily how you DID play.
If you're not displaying your town-tells, then...you're either a. changing your meta (hurts town) or b. not displaying them because you're not town (hurts town).
First off, you bring up my meta then discredit ANY attempt for me to talk about it as 'self-meta'. You're not only using one of my arguments, you're using it POORLY!
The Self-meta null tell, which is something "I" use-thank you very much-is when someone first brings up meta to prove themselves as town. I.e.
"I can't be scum. Haven't you seen me throw Wide Scans out? That's how I act as town. I'm much less willing to Scan as scum."
That's an attempt to prove yourself town with your meta. It shows that you KNOW your own meta and, thus, can control it. It MAY be true that you are doing it as town but, thanks to you knowing, you MAY have the ability to manipulate it when you're scum. Thus, a Null tell.
I'm not using my meta to prove I'm town. I'm using my meta to NULLIFY your own meta arguments. You claim I'm not acting like Town-Dakarian. I'm saying that Town-Dakarian is NOT what you think it is, which is based half on half-a-year old data and your own ideals on what I 'should' be as a player. Unless you can prove that Recent-Town-Dakarian acts like you THINK it does (and, for all your LOVE of quotes, I see nothing of the sort for examples) your own argument is Nullified.
Prove me town? No. Turns your meta arguments into bullcrap? Yes.
I'm sure you are laughing in Quick chat about how "dakarian is getting hanged by his own devices" but you can stop now. It's looking ugly, VERY ugly.
Quote
Lay the groundwork now, follow it (or, in unlikely towndak case, not) after you flip.
Funny, I've hosted quite a few games now. That's EXACTLY how well set mafia tend to think. Setup players early on..buddy this one, accuse this one..but not lynch just yet.. then checkmate!
Go and reread the QuickChat of BM4 which you remember since you were beaten by the scumteam then.
Townies don't think like that: not the good ones. They don't setup chain kills. They focus one at a time.
Quote
If I'm not using the term as is usual in mafia, forgive me. But you are appealing to emotion with "Pages...*cry*" using the same mechanism. Why should it matter whether you're under attack? Wouldn't it be more effective to get people sympathising, perhaps subconsciously, before anybody is under fire? Isn't this why people shun/attack jokes?
If you're not using the mafia term, then don't USE the mafia term. You're confusing everyone into thinking I did the mafia-styled appeal.
And no, people don't attack jokes because of that. They attack jokes when the person uses the joke instead of actual content. Even then, it's a poor argument.
And again, you're reaching for anything that can be twisted into something scummy.
Quote
that is only one case where I called you a hypocrite. Others (like the many complaints about the 'mess' and '*cry* much to scan but nothing comes up *kick*' contrasted with 'mafiascum hammer games take 9 days for first day'...or times when you are inconsistent with yourself (save cheat 'til lylo vs not)-Oh, and your "save until lylo argument" is...WIFOM!
now you're just throwing around any term that you like.
I already said that I'm allowed to say that a day is hard to handle BUT useful, even if you don't like it. It's not hypocritical/WIFOM/Appealing to do that.
And I thought the 'save until lylo' comment was supposed to be 'bad logic', not 'wifom'.
"save the MC and scan until lylo..but that's what I want you to think!"
MEH!
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You generally don't miss points. (you're calling this 'old meta' it seems)
Prove it.
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Superkill=bypasses protection, so functionally equivalent is my point
BULLSHIT!
Superkill = can kill even when protection is active. That's a Nightkiller being able to One-shot-kill through Leafsnail's protection.
A Daykiller is NOT known as a Superkiller. They just kill BEFORE the protection kicks in.
No, you CAN'T flex the definition to fit your desires. They are TWO separate things!
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So you admit you were being selfish about it. I mean, if you weren't going to hammer, then ok- you could have either gone with the slightly smaller consensus OR put it out there "If someone else wants to hammer, don't, I'll kill him instead and we get two lynches". Treat it like Alex-chan's ability.
I want this to be made very...very clear.
So you're saying I'm supposed to use my daykill on someone I did not think was scum just because the town wants that person dead?
Do you remember what Alex actually did with his daykill back in Bay 12?
Quote
addressed above under hypocrisy
Addressed above as well
Btw, I noticed you skipped #8.
Quote
"Funny that" without explanation. I havetwogood reasons to use it on you.
1. It's something that you're claiming points scum on others and are trying to wave off from your attacks (more hypocrisy)
2. It's showing up (as you point out) rather like a cherry on top of any good scum evidence pile
3. I figured out what was wrong with my original theory about the statistics (3/4 of 9)-third/fourth not to be late to party, but to avoid being prime/second (high-visibility) and to avoid hammer (fifth), but helping to build a wagon.
In other words, "HAHA let's lynch Dakarian using his own devices." Are you trying to get me killed as scum or just wanting to "see the mighty fall"?
You said yourself that you don't care for 3rd vote. As such you wouldn't have a reason to notice it unless it was me using it. As such, the only reason you bring it up is because of the irony and the sheer pleasure its bringing you that "I would fall to my own traps." In fact, it gives a double benefit. Not only can you get me lynched by it, but you can prove it wrong by having it lynch a townie.
It's seriously looking like you just want me killed.. not actually trying to go after scum.
Quote
More posts, more to analyze, yet you complain.
Spent an entire day working on that widescan. You bet that I'll complain. You'll also bet that I so much prefer it to the silent mess many of the other games deliver.
I complain about my cat, Litia, for harassing my other pets, stealing food from everyone, and being a nuance at times. I'll kill anyone who tries to hurt her.
People who are more than one-dimensional are NOT scum. You, of course, don't care since it's just a means to get me killed.
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I said above, this is way ANYONE should play. IF your meta is changing from 'ideal town player'...
Funny that. I was closer to your idea of the 'ideal player' when Vector tore me to pieces back in BM1. When I step away from your 'ideal player model', I catch scum much more regularly (to the point where I'm getting NKed left and right :P).
Only scum worry so much about looking 'perfect' to other players. Townies do whatever they need to so long as they scumhunt.
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Um...yeah. Wow. You're pointing out/creating your OWN WIFOM and trying to say that it's mine. No.Nicetry.
Not exactly.
Your the one playing Vizzy saying that you know exactly what I planned. You're the one willing to ignore the idea that Town-Dakarian just may have just wanted to use that Daykill right then and went strait for the Scum-Dakarian theory with no evidence of either direction.
Thus it's your wine, not mine.
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The defeatism appears to be crossgame, not because he's scum here (And look! We can even point out that he wasn't scum here!)- that he always gets quickly lynched for being exkirby.
"ExKirby being ExKirby" was figured out AFTER that daykill. Now, we can look at him and go "meh, Newtells". Then it wasn't quite so clear.
So yes, it's easy to read him now. If you knew of it then I would've loved to have heard of it while I was asking everyone how they felt about an ExKirby Vig.
Though you didn't seem to want to talk till it was over, even though you assure me it was so clear anyone should've seen it.
Quote
Quote from: dakarianSee above "That's funny" you're pulling on my "third vote use", where you are doing the EXACT SAME THING. Hypocrite.QuoteThey're your scummy actions-I shouldn't have to explain your actions. Explaining why they're scummy- that I'm doing. (Assuming people will grasp a concept when I display only necessary steps is a failing of mine sometimes.)
The problem is that for much of them you DON'T explain why they are scummy. A one word "that's bad" is NOT explaining yourself. I have to guess at 'why' you thought something looked bad in order to speak about them, and at that point I'm creating the argument for you.
Explain this one, because it's sounding like you're just after my play style with this, not actually aiming for scum.
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I'm not the Perfect Robot Player that you think I am and frankly, I dislike the idea of getting lynched because of it.Fear of death, noted.
Third use of my style, noted.
Which further adds to the "get dakarian lynched by his own devices" argument, which isn't exactly scumhunting, but just trying to get me killed in a very ironic way.
Lastly
Quote
And now again. The house of cards tumbles down...
Allow me to replace it with a brick castle.
Post by: dakarian on December 03, 2009, 01:43:47 pm
CobaltKobold has NOT been trying to actually scumhunt. The only thing she has truly been doing is attempting to destroy my playing style. Instead of using her own arguments and reasonings to find scum, she's been looking for every attempt to 'throw my own arguments at my face' to both kill me off and discredit my arguments even after I'm dead. She bends definitions, arguments, and past posts into any form of attack she can think of.
She's not trying to lynch a scummy Dakarian. She's just trying to get someone she thinks she can lynch, lynched.
She's already at L-2, but she clearly doesn't much find that of concern, clearly thinking that she's going to live once she revives the bandwagon on me. She won't claim, and does little to defend herself.
If you find a fault in my argument against her-that you feel that she may still be town acting like this, please express them.
If you find my reasonings sound but you still have questions or are unsure then please speak to CobaltKobold about them, so you can be sure either way.
If you agree with my findings and have nothing left to offer to CobaltKobold then let's end this day and hammer her.
And yes, with that, I'm done with you, Cobalt.
Post by: Vector on December 03, 2009, 02:24:21 pm
Quote from: Hard hits got orphaned because I was cut/pasting them. Found 'em.QuoteI feel, however, that I have not been entirely precise in that characterization."I am attacking but hedging my bets." = CAUTIOUS. lso, making other people fill in your arguments = scum:
"No particular statements because it's blatant and general" = I'm not supporting my arguments also I am attacking meta vs "Meta is not a traditional scumtell"QuoteThen, most of the inconsistencies and hypocrisies he "seems to have found" are actually applications of different thinking to different situations, such as calling Dakarian out for a claim request just before vigging ExKirby. This may simply just be inflexible thinking, however, so I push this one somewhat less strongly and ask merely that he think harder before posting.-more caution. Vector.
"It turns out that I was mistaken," followed by "Fifth, there still remain inconsistencies in his arguments, which he has brushed over."-hypocrisy- brushing over own mistakes, followed by accusing me of same.
" I apologize for the lack of quotations in the below; they are partially because the behaviors are rampant, and partially because it is nearly impossible to dig them out of his crunched blocks of text." vs. "I have carefully combed through the recent statements in an attempt to figure out what, precisely, was bothering me about his statements." apparent inconsistency.
a. "I feel I have not been precise in that characterization" == what I was writing was a general idea of what I meant, but not what I actually meant. I'm sick and tired of playing word games with you because you don't like how I put something. Is writing more precisely hedging your bets?
No. "Hedging bets" would involve writing in your style, so that there were so many interpretations to everything you write that we cannot help being wrong, over and over again. You are intentionally tripping people up with your explanatory system, and it ... well, I'm really tired of saying this, too, but it makes me angry.
Further, I have not seen any place in which I was allowing people to fill in my arguments. The most I've done is said "Find your own damn quotes--I'll reference events that are easily memorable, but I'm not going to go prying those suckers out." Lazy, maybe, but I'm not forcing others to fill anything in but your pain-in-the-ass quotations.
Interesting how you'll attack me for my lack of quotations, but didn't attack Dakarian for following me on the behavior. That's inconsistency at its finest.
b. "No particular statements because it's blatant and general" != "I am attacking meta => hypocrisy." It means "Your scumtells are all over the place, so that even a braindead two-year-old could find them without a flashlight." Also, "if you happen to be a braindead one-year-old sans flashlight, I will be more than happy to direct you to the posts in question. I just don't have much time right now."
It's not so much about "how you're behaving differently from usual" as it is about "how you're behaving right now, in this game alone."
c. "More caution"? More like "Vector sees a different interpretation for this behavior. Vector thinks inflexibly across situations, himself! It ends up looking just like this. Maybe I should bring up this point but mostly leave it alone, given that I cannot figure out which of the two interpretations it is. If I get more evidence for one than the other, then I will decide what to do."
d. We seem to be using different definitions of "brushing off" and "addressing." You brush things off, i.e. people say "You did this wrong!" and you say nothing. I address my errors by issuing apologies for being incorrect--i.e., I admit my mistakes and don't continue to push my poorly-formed ideas after the fact. Not hypocritical, doodabuddy.
e. "I looked carefully through the text. I am not, however, going to spend hours furnishing an internet forum with all the quotations coinciding to every behavior." How is this inconsistent?
I'm not perfect and one-dimensional. I know this. My suggestion is that you stop complaining at people for being human, given that it is PROFOUNDLY irritating.
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..if half the town is acting scummy, then I can't base my arguments against them based on that scumminess? This makes no sense, Vector. Stop grasping at straws.
If half the town is acting scummy in precisely the same fashion, then you cannot base your arguments against a single person on that ground alone. Thus I don't think your complaints against Dakarian (where they are mostly talking about his "appeals to emotion") are valid, and I think you should know that already.
QuoteFurther, as I've been saying: most of your stated "hypocrisy" is not hypocritical at all. You like throwing that word around like it's candy, whereas most of what I see is "CobaltKobold is trying to get everybody lynched on the mildest of offenses." Then, you also end up just going "HYPOCRISY! CONTRADICTION!" with very little explanation whatsoever. At the very least, it's severely anti-town. At the most, it's scummy.Finding inconsistencies is serious stuff, because scum are far, FAR more likely to be inconsistent.
You aren't addressing what I'm actually saying at all. Finding inconsistencies: yes, that's serious stuff. Going through yelling "HYPOCRISY AND CONTRADICTION, AND NO I WON'T EXPLAIN MYSELF!" is also serious stuff, and it happens to be ridiculously scummy.
I mean... "I've pulled the bottom card out of a house of cards again! ;D" with THIS stuff? Are you serious? You aren't even addressing my accusations, and in the above tab of scummy stuff you KEEP ON WRITING THE SAME WAY.
Quote from: VectorA joke? Vector?Quote from: VectorThe purpose of the above statements is to inform CobaltKobold that, if he is town, he would do well to reconsider his attacking style, as it is so full of holes that the only thing it will hold is viscous liquid. Such as scum.The icing my be holy, but there is still a cake beneath it.
The cake is a lie.
A popular culture reference.
... What, do I have a reputation for being humorless?
QuoteHappily? I retracted the statement, didn't I?Quote from: VectorSecond, though he addresses the WIFOM-spreading, he does not address his apparent cautiousness. Further, all that crap about staged fights is nothing but a vat of WIFOM, and it constitutes most of his arguments against Webadict and perhaps half of the WoT against dakarian.*shrug* It's my interpretation. It's been...interesting that they've been into each other all game. Also, the nature of the fights is very odd, since each of them are throwing mostly-bad arguments against eachother. "I have a hole but I'm not telling you" for instance.
You have a duty not to WIFOM the town. The fact that you are doing so happily bothers me.
I don't see you retracting the statement. I see you explaining it and trying to reinforce it in the above quotation. Hence, yes. "CobaltKobold is happily WIFOMing the town."
QuoteI treat a bit more as meta than you do, I think. if someone is known for (town)strong arguments, and gives weak ones- that's both scummy(weak arguments) and metascummy(different to their town meta).QuoteThird, his arguments continue to be horrifyingly flimsy. His statement was that he was pointing out "every scummy thing as it floated by, which doesn't look very town." This is not the issue I take with his statements. The problem is that he argues based on (extremely old) meta and, rather than searching for scumtells, seems to have confounded himself with "not-town-tells"--i.e., nulltells.Null-tells would be either known self-used tells (which are going to be town-tells).
Uh.... no. Null-tells are things that players do when they are town or scum. We have three options: town-tells, null-tells, and scumtells. The fact that Dakarian is acting in a way that does not coincide with his town-tells does not mean that he is displaying his scumtells, or is even scum.
Null-tells are either known self-used tells, or... what? What I'm saying here is that you really aren't doing much by way of identifying scumtells. Mostly, you're sitting about digging up nulltells, and asking us to believe you're town.
Ah-ha, kind of like you used to speak logically and coherently and suddenly you're spewing these messes. Now I understand.
You may have gone quote-happy in BMIV, but at least you tried to explain yourself.
QuoteNo, that difference is the difference between commenting on something and hamming it up to get the town on your side for no good reason.QuoteFurther, the "appeals to emotion" he has found do not constitute true appeals to emotion. Everyone in this thread (a generalization, as I am sure someone has been lurking too much to complain) has complained about its length/ridiculousness here or elsewhere. The "appeals to emotion" he found in me were nothing but apologies after having made grating statements.There is quite a difference betweenQuote from: dakarianA bigger part tells me that Wide Scanning 19 people will make me cry. *sigh*and, something like "Yikes, 10 pages overnight"- for instance.
Yes. That difference is called "personality." Are we allowed to have those, or has King Kobold banned them, too?
Also, Queen Kobold.
Maybe so. I will continue to posit that Dakarian is acting just the way he usually does, but will leave this point for now.
Also, King Hatshepsut.
I pointed it out by virtue of throwing a mass of quotes at you. I suppose saying "Here we find three buddyings, including, suspiciously, webadict!" would be superior, but communication has been a problem for me, clearly.
Yes. I suggest you work on that.
QuoteI feel like you're saying "Well, you're just too dumb to understand what I mean, then, what with my sesquipedalian diction," to which I answer "screw you." Being smart includes knowing how to communicate, not just dicking around with things that are so obvious to you and so unobvious to us, the idiots. This feeling increases when I remember the argument with Cheeetar, where you defined a "referent" asI am using the correct form of the word. (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/indexical) Indexical as noun: an indexical statement: a statement pointing at something else. "An index" does not contain this meaning.referent: concept to which an indexical refers.
"An indexical?" Really? If you're going to bash us for spelling incorrectly (sware vs. swear), how about learning to use the correct form of a word?
1. Screw dictionary.com.
2. Amusing how Dakarian has also picked up on the insane amounts of hubris you're spewing everywhere. Not really an important point; I just think it's funny.
3. This is a formal request (what, the third one?) that you start working harder on communicating with us. I don't care how awesome you think you are, you need to work on it. You may be the best scum-hunter who ever lived, but you're just going to keep getting lynched if you continue to argue like this.
QuoteI have made statements, I have addressed it.QuoteFifth, there still remain inconsistencies in his arguments, which he has brushed over. When we were still functioning under the assumption that he had indeed spoken about the doctor in BMIV, he stated that his inconsistency was reasonable given that he had started playing Mafia two weeks ago. When I brought up the fact that he had started perhaps a month and a half ago, he completely brushed it off.Grasping at straws, I see. You're arguing that my "If it was my first two weeks" comment is bad because it wasn't my first two weeks. However, the point that I'm making with it- that it is still incredibly early in my mafia tenure (or whatever you want to call it)- does not hinge on that fact. So yes, I don't see it as a problem to be found as mistaken or incorrect on a fact that does not impact the game. Like, for instance, if I got your gender wrong. It would not matter for the game unless it was integral to some argument. So, a pronoun inconsistency would not be grounds for "lynch all liars".
What I see here is an individual who is bending fact and, when someone brings up the fact that he is incorrect, does not correct himself, apologize, or bring up further reasoning. He forgets the point as soon as it has been noticed, perhaps in an attempt to cause others to forget as well.
No. My point is not about that specific inconsistency. It is about the part where I made a remark about your being inconsistent, and you ignored it until I brought it up... again. In combination with Dakarian's noticing you ignoring his attacks so many times, it is scummy in the extreme.
Further, it did seem to influence the game at the time. As such, your failure to make any statement about it is suspect.
If it's so small, why not own up to it? Why not address it? Instead, you leave it out and later cover by saying "But that wasn't important!!"
...
Now you have, after a whole bunch of crap where I run around and try to get you to talk. That's just fabulous.
No, it's that other people were commenting -not that the person was scum- but that their behavior(meta) was off. The overblown is because I knocked down the rest of your attacks.
Fair enough.
And now again. The house of cards tumbles down...
Wishful thinking. You cannot bend iron bars with your desire to be free.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 03, 2009, 02:43:46 pm
list your list of list list hahah
That's not at all what I'm saying. Let me explain this again again.
1. All of us were at 1-L for Cobalt in this mafia game.
2. Cheeetar tells ToonyMan to lynch Cobalt because ToonyMan said he was scum earlier.
3. ToonyMan says no.
4. Cheeetar asks why.
5. ToonyMan says Cheeetar wants to use ToonyMan as a way to lynch CobaltKobold(town). Cheeetar(scum) THEN can try to get ToonyMan(town) lynched tomorrow ON THE NEXT DAY. NEXT DAY NEXT DAY.
Why in the world can you not understand this?!
WHY ARE YOU A TARGET TO ME?
You are telling me to lynch a townie, you pop out of nowhere quote what I said early 'cause you know my "tunnelvision" yaddha yaddha so you hoped you could use that against me, IT DIDN'T WORK.
WHY AM I SUSPICIOUS TO YOU?
Oh, isn't this the same thing, oh wait. You think I'm going to target you in the night? WUT? Find this quote I don't remember saying that at all.
WHY IS COBALT A TARGET TO ME?
This makes no sense. I don't know what Cobalt is going to do.
Also, what changed your mind about Cobalt being a scum? Don't just quote a post and leave it. Quote a post, explain which parts. Put some effort in.
TOONYMAN ONLY TUNNELVISION HAHAHA I CAN GET HIM WITH THIS
Stop saying nonsense, I have absolutely NO CLUE what you are babbling about with targets and all.
Post by: SirBayer on December 03, 2009, 03:00:21 pm
Also, thanks for finding that quote, Kobold. It isn't the complete thing, but it's the last mention of it that I could find - Dakarian really expected me to KNOW why I wasn't killed, which is slightly more suspicious to me.
Dak, I still think I agree with you... think. Let's finish this. Whether good lynch or bad, it will give us a wonderful foundation to hunt down you and Vector and force out blazing colors.
Toony: You really do need to explain too. Vector brings this up in Cobalt's style, and Webadict is another guilty party. Sometimes you have to change your style for the layman. I saw what Cheeetar was talking about. I don't like it.
Post by: Mr.Person on December 03, 2009, 03:05:51 pm
2. The 'not dakarian' deal. No, I don't act the way I did when I first started playing. I've had half a year of postings and a large batch of ChatMafia to practice on. I use a good deal more aggression and emotion in my games now, especially when I'm in 'pressure' mode. Your meta is old for one thing.
So you're playing more poorly. Great. Maybe the problem isn't us pointing out you're not playing like you used to and you should of continued to act like you used to because you played better back then.
6. Point missing:
- Ok, so I DO make mistakes. Often. It's the basis behind my Scans: so I can pull accurate information.
Now here's the question: how is that scummy? For that matter, how is making mistakes 'undakarian'?
Well, if making mistakes isn't scummy, I guess you no longer have a case at all against me. Oh wait, you sitll think I'm scum. Hypocrite.
-second off, why didn't I use it on Webadict? Same reason why I didn't vote for him. I fought with him in Day 1 to get a read on him and what I found didn't show off scum. When the town charged headlong into web, I read the reasons and found them lacking:
I thought you said you wanted to use the daykill to give the town a second lynch. I guess you didn't really mean that and instead meant that you would kill whoever you thought was scum. There's nothing wrong with that, except you know, lying about it.
Why didn't I use it at all day 1? Day 1 has almost no good information to work off of and I felt I'd be alive for at least that long. Since my power goes away after Day 3, I was left either shooting on Day 2 or taking a chance on Day 3. I took the safer route and claimed on Day 2.
What happened to Day one being the most important day, filled with information for future days?
12. Dakarian = Logically, with well-structured, well-researched arguments, and not appealing to emotion.
Old meta is old.
ChatMafia changed a good bit in me.
Then change it back.
13. The 'give scum two mislynchs'
It IS wifom. I'm trying to give the town a free lynch.. but that's what I want you to think!
Yes, that is what you want us to think. It's not true, however, so you lied.
Post by: SirBayer on December 03, 2009, 03:18:39 pm
13. The 'give scum two mislynchs'
It IS wifom. I'm trying to give the town a free lynch.. but that's what I want you to think!
Yes, that is what you want us to think. It's not true, however, so you lied.
Please stop spreading WIFOM.
Post by: SirBayer on December 03, 2009, 03:19:39 pm
Dak's whole day-kill deal WAS... oh, dammit.
I still blame Mr. Person for bringing it up, it would've been juuuuuust peachy otherwise.
Post by: Mr.Person on December 03, 2009, 03:34:45 pm
13. The 'give scum two mislynchs'
It IS wifom. I'm trying to give the town a free lynch.. but that's what I want you to think!
Yes, that is what you want us to think. It's not true, however, so you lied.
Please stop spreading WIFOM.
I don't care about the WIFOM, it's far more interesting to me that Dakarian claims he wanted to give the town an extra lynch, then denied giving the town a lynch it wanted.
Post by: Mephansteras on December 03, 2009, 03:39:46 pm
Lynch me instead. People are spending a lot of time and energy arguing with dakarian about whether or not he's scum. He's not, but the only way I can prove that is to die. So, fine, if that's what it takes to get the rest of you focused on looking for the real scum so be it.
We can afford a mislynch today, and having Dak as a confirmed townie will be much more helpful then all this arguing. Even if the scum NK him, you've got pages worth of his analysis that you can use and actually trust.
unvote CobaltKobold.
vote mephansteras
Post by: SirBayer on December 03, 2009, 03:44:37 pm
I'd like to think that it's a confirmation of both Meph and Dak, but somehow I doubt it.
The only issue is we don't want to kill a valuable power-role. On the other hand, we gain a confirmed experienced player.
For now, though... I'm willing to take his word for it, and I want to finish Cobalt. Come on now, Meph.
Post by: Mephansteras on December 03, 2009, 04:03:25 pm
I'm still willing to lynch Cobalt, but unless we can convince the people who aren't voting for her to switch, it's not going to matter. So I think we're better off as a whole if I get lynched today. From that you should (hopefully) have enough information form the past few days to get a better lead of actually finding out who's scum.
Post by: dakarian on December 03, 2009, 04:13:53 pm
I guess I can go with that. It'll end the "don't believe you because your scum" fussings everyone has, keeps Sir from blocking someone with a good role (since mine is already used up and I imaigne I would need the protection), and lets us be able to focus on others more (i.e Mr.Person and Cobalt, and many of the folks that love to hide).
Very well, though just in case something goes wrong in the night, I'll want time to make an overall writeup.
Unvote-CobaltKobold
Vote Mephansteras
Post by: Cheeetar on December 03, 2009, 04:17:28 pm
I'll tell you to hammer a townie, and then lynch you the next day for hammering a townie? That would be stupid of me, especially if I was already voting that specific townie. This is not to say I believe Cobalt is a townie.list your list of list list hahah
That's not at all what I'm saying. Let me explain this again again.
1. All of us were at 1-L for Cobalt in this mafia game.
2. Cheeetar tells ToonyMan to lynch Cobalt because ToonyMan said he was scum earlier.
3. ToonyMan says no.
4. Cheeetar asks why.
5. ToonyMan says Cheeetar wants to use ToonyMan as a way to lynch CobaltKobold(town). Cheeetar(scum) THEN can try to get ToonyMan(town) lynched tomorrow ON THE NEXT DAY. NEXT DAY NEXT DAY.
Why in the world can you not understand this?!
You're saying I'm angry that you didn't lynch Cobalt, so I want to lynch you instead? I was simply asking why, if you did believe Cobalt was scum, you weren't lynching him.WHY ARE YOU A TARGET TO ME?
You are telling me to lynch a townie, you pop out of nowhere quote what I said early 'cause you know my "tunnelvision" yaddha yaddha so you hoped you could use that against me, IT DIDN'T WORK.
I didn't say anything about you targetting in the night. You may have misunderstood one of my posts.WHY AM I SUSPICIOUS TO YOU?
Oh, isn't this the same thing, oh wait. You think I'm going to target you in the night? WUT? Find this quote I don't remember saying that at all.
Earlier you were going on about how I was scum because I wanted to kill you and Cobalt (or atleast, it looked like that to me).WHY IS COBALT A TARGET TO ME?
This makes no sense. I don't know what Cobalt is going to do.
Earlier you believed Cobalt was scum, because he was in one of your lists about who the scum was. Now, you don't. What changed your mind?Also, what changed your mind about Cobalt being a scum? Don't just quote a post and leave it. Quote a post, explain which parts. Put some effort in.
TOONYMAN ONLY TUNNELVISION HAHAHA I CAN GET HIM WITH THIS
Stop saying nonsense, I have absolutely NO CLUE what you are babbling about with targets and all.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 03, 2009, 04:19:40 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on December 03, 2009, 04:25:26 pm
I don't understand why lynching Mephansteras will confirm Dakarian. Would anybody care to explain?
My role is the Blacksmith, I can identify the weapon used to kill someone and whether or not that person was town or scum. After dakarian day-killed ExKirby I investigated the kill and was told by Pandarsenic that the person who did the kill was town-aligned. Therefore, dakarian is town.
Note: This all happened day 2, so he can't have been converted by Leafsnail Night 1.
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 03, 2009, 04:27:30 pm
ToonyMan [1]: Eduren
CobaltKobold [4]: Cheeetar, Vector, Webadict, SirBayer
Mephansteras [3]: Org, Mephansteras, Dakarian
Still alive: SirBayer, Cheeetar, Dakarian, SHAD0Wdump (INACTIVE, REPLACEMENT NEEDED), Vector, Mr.Person, Mephansteras, Eduren, ToonyMan, Webadict, Org, CobaltKobold, Rashilul, RedWarrior0
Post by: dakarian on December 03, 2009, 04:32:10 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 03, 2009, 04:58:56 pm
Post by: Org on December 03, 2009, 05:07:52 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on December 03, 2009, 05:10:38 pm
I suppose I'll join in on the fun, finally. I just hope he isn't scum super saint. Meph, I guess.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 03, 2009, 05:12:47 pm
:-P
Post by: Eduren on December 03, 2009, 05:35:05 pm
Mephansteras
Post by: dakarian on December 03, 2009, 05:51:36 pm
Why is Meph voting meph
My role is the Blacksmith, I can identify the weapon used to kill someone and whether or not that person was town or scum. After dakarian day-killed ExKirby I investigated the kill and was told by Pandarsenic that the person who did the kill was town-aligned. Therefore, dakarian is town.
Note: This all happened day 2, so he can't have been converted by Leafsnail Night 1.
Post by: webadict on December 03, 2009, 05:53:08 pm
How 'bout we DON'T?
Instead of this confirmation business, which will likely end with the two of you being horribly killed, we instead try to lynch someone we think is scum?
Post by: dakarian on December 03, 2009, 05:56:13 pm
I already @everyoned and so far the only response is Meph's.
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 03, 2009, 05:57:26 pm
Dakarian [4]: Rashilul, ToonyMan, CobaltKobold, Mr.Person
CobaltKobold [4]: Cheeetar, Vector, Webadict, SirBayer
Mephansteras [5]: Org, Mephansteras, Dakarian, RedWarrior0, Eduren
Still alive: SirBayer, Cheeetar, Dakarian, SHAD0Wdump (INACTIVE, REPLACEMENT NEEDED), Vector, Mr.Person, Mephansteras, Eduren, ToonyMan, Webadict, Org, CobaltKobold, Rashilul, RedWarrior0
Post by: webadict on December 03, 2009, 05:59:26 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on December 03, 2009, 06:02:32 pm
I've got an idea!
How 'bout we DON'T?
Instead of this confirmation business, which will likely end with the two of you being horribly killed, we instead try to lynch someone we think is scum?
The main reason I proposed this is because we've gone on forever without any indication that we'll actually lynch someone today. Four people are on dakarian, and unless a bunch of them suddenly decide that Cobalt is scum, we're still not going to get anywhere.
This plan isn't optimal, but it should cut out a good bit of the infighting and help focus the town's efforts. We have pages and pages of WoTs already posted against people today. Somehow I doubt more are going to really help us much.
Post by: Mr.Person on December 03, 2009, 06:11:49 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on December 03, 2009, 06:17:02 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 03, 2009, 06:20:45 pm
Dakarian [3]: Rashilul, ToonyMan, CobaltKobold
CobaltKobold [4]: Cheeetar, Vector, Webadict, SirBayer
Mephansteras [6]: Org, Mephansteras, Dakarian, RedWarrior0, Eduren, Mr.Person
Meph is L-2
Still alive: SirBayer, Cheeetar, Dakarian, SHAD0Wdump (INACTIVE, REPLACEMENT NEEDED), Vector, Mr.Person, Mephansteras, Eduren, ToonyMan, Webadict, Org, CobaltKobold, Rashilul, RedWarrior0
Post by: ToonyMan on December 03, 2009, 06:45:02 pm
@Everyone:
CobaltKobold has NOT been trying to actually scumhunt. The only thing she has truly been doing is attempting to destroy my playing style. Instead of using her own arguments and reasonings to find scum, she's been looking for every attempt to 'throw my own arguments at my face' to both kill me off and discredit my arguments even after I'm dead. She bends definitions, arguments, and past posts into any form of attack she can think of.
She's not trying to lynch a scummy Dakarian. She's just trying to get someone she thinks she can lynch, lynched.
She's already at L-2, but she clearly doesn't much find that of concern, clearly thinking that she's going to live once she revives the bandwagon on me. She won't claim, and does little to defend herself.
If you find a fault in my argument against her-that you feel that she may still be town acting like this, please express them.
If you find my reasonings sound but you still have questions or are unsure then please speak to CobaltKobold about them, so you can be sure either way.
If you agree with my findings and have nothing left to offer to CobaltKobold then let's end this day and hammer her.
And yes, with that, I'm done with you, Cobalt.
I didn't see a question and still don't!
Post by: Mephansteras on December 03, 2009, 06:50:15 pm
Man, no way am I wrong again.
:-P
Toony, you're still voting dakarian. Why? You keep saying I'm scum, so lynching me is fine if that's the case. If I'm not lying, it lets you cross dakarian off your list and focus on other people.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 03, 2009, 06:53:10 pm
Unvote Dakarian.
Vote Webadict, die scum.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 03, 2009, 09:35:13 pm
No. The first thing after the quote is talking about the quote. After the linebreak/paragraph separator is describing non-quoted things in between the quotes.Bloodthirstiness, no. Lynch-anyone-period-bandwagon,yes.
Ok.. you are saying I'm trying to bandwagon and lynch anyone... in RVS..
"lynch anyone period" in..RVS.
This isn't a small thing to me. This is an example of your entire argument. You take any statement, then mold and twist it into any form of scumtell you wish it to be.
I mean you're taking a RANDOM VOTE, the FIRST post I've made in the game, the first vote I've made when I was the first voter on Mr.Person and you made a serious accusation out of it!
I'm calling 'Tunnelvision' now. You just don't care anymore. You just want me lynched and looking for any means to do it.
Quote
I'm saying you're not dropping your town tells. Now, someone who's not dropping town tells...let's see...what are they again?Quote
I call BS on your selfmeta. Also, the answer to your question "How should I play?" was not answering to your meta primarily (though tht was how you played)- it was how you should play, and secondarily how you DID play.
If you're not displaying your town-tells, then...you're either a. changing your meta (hurts town) or b. not displaying them because you're not town (hurts town).
First off, you bring up my meta then discredit ANY attempt for me to talk about it as 'self-meta'. You're not only using one of my arguments, you're using it POORLY!
The Self-meta null tell, which is something "I" use-thank you very much-is when someone first brings up meta to prove themselves as town. I.e.
"I can't be scum. Haven't you seen me throw Wide Scans out? That's how I act as town. I'm much less willing to Scan as scum."
That's an attempt to prove yourself town with your meta. It shows that you KNOW your own meta and, thus, can control it. It MAY be true that you are doing it as town but, thanks to you knowing, you MAY have the ability to manipulate it when you're scum. Thus, a Null tell.
I'm not using my meta to prove I'm town. I'm using my meta to NULLIFY your own meta arguments. You claim I'm not acting like Town-Dakarian. I'm saying that Town-Dakarian is NOT what you think it is, which is based half on half-a-year old data and your own ideals on what I 'should' be as a player. Unless you can prove that Recent-Town-Dakarian acts like you THINK it does (and, for all your LOVE of quotes, I see nothing of the sort for examples) your own argument is Nullified.
Prove me town? No. Turns your meta arguments into bullcrap? Yes.
When people read you, they aren't just trying to read if you are scum but also if you are town. If you are hard to read on purpose then you are also hard to tell if you are town..which means you look MORE like scum than pro-town players do.SCUMMY.
The ultimate goal is NOT to have a pokerface, but a 'town' face. As town you should hunt as hard as you can and play as well as you can to win unconcerned about what tells you through. Play like that and anyone worth their salt will see you as pro-town.
As scum? You should then look EXACTLY AS YOU DO AS TOWN. THAT is the goal. Unreadable means you are trying to hide which..is actually a scumtell in itself. Your should play town as best you can since that is as pro-town as you can get. Then when you are scum, you should be able to mimic the look of your pro-town well enough so that people still think you are town.
Quote
I'm sure you are laughing in Quick chat about how "dakarian is getting hanged by his own devices" but you can stop now. It's looking ugly, VERY ugly.For you.
Quote
Which is why I'm focusing on you and leaving that for later. This is easier than keeping personal notes.QuoteLay the groundwork now, follow it (or, in unlikely towndak case, not) after you flip.
Funny, I've hosted quite a few games now. That's EXACTLY how well set mafia tend to think. Setup players early on..buddy this one, accuse this one..but not lynch just yet.. then checkmate!
Go and reread the QuickChat of BM4 which you remember since you were beaten by the scumteam then.
Townies don't think like that: not the good ones. They don't setup chain kills. They focus one at a time.
Quote
Let me highlight the wifom for you then, foolish Dakarian. No, wait, I already did. You were arguing thatQuoteIf I'm not using the term as is usual in mafia, forgive me. But you are appealing to emotion with "Pages...*cry*" using the same mechanism. Why should it matter whether you're under attack? Wouldn't it be more effective to get people sympathising, perhaps subconsciously, before anybody is under fire? Isn't this why people shun/attack jokes?
If you're not using the mafia term, then don't USE the mafia term. You're confusing everyone into thinking I did the mafia-styled appeal.
And no, people don't attack jokes because of that. They attack jokes when the person uses the joke instead of actual content. Even then, it's a poor argument.
And again, you're reaching for anything that can be twisted into something scummy.Quotethat is only one case where I called you a hypocrite. Others (like the many complaints about the 'mess' and '*cry* much to scan but nothing comes up *kick*' contrasted with 'mafiascum hammer games take 9 days for first day'...or times when you are inconsistent with yourself (save cheat 'til lylo vs not)-Oh, and your "save until lylo argument" is...WIFOM!
now you're just throwing around any term that you like.
I already said that I'm allowed to say that a day is hard to handle BUT useful, even if you don't like it. It's not hypocritical/WIFOM/Appealing to do that.
And I thought the 'save until lylo' comment was supposed to be 'bad logic', not 'wifom'.
Quote from: dakarian
the mafia don't seem afraid of it or else they'd kill you already while you were still blocked.
THIS.
IS.
WIFOM.
Seriously. "What the mafia would do" cannot be anything BUT WIFOM.
Stop WIFOMing the town.
Quote
"save the MC and scan until lylo..but that's what I want you to think!"Generally speaking it is usually impossible to prove something does not happen- that something happens requires only one example.
MEH!QuoteYou generally don't miss points. (you're calling this 'old meta' it seems)
Prove it.
I shall not prove it, but the way you have stated "perfect robot player is oldmeta" (paraphrasing a little) suggests that you don't usually miss points.
Quote
In both cases, he has protection. In both cases, one can kill in spite of it. Yes, they are different...HOWEVER. You're assuming you're telling the truth and you only have a one-shot daykill.QuoteSuperkill=bypasses protection, so functionally equivalent is my point
BULLSHIT!
Superkill = can kill even when protection is active. That's a Nightkiller being able to One-shot-kill through Leafsnail's protection.
A Daykiller is NOT known as a Superkiller. They just kill BEFORE the protection kicks in.
No, you CAN'T flex the definition to fit your desires. They are TWO separate things!
Quote from: Pandarsenic
The one-shot protection stops anything I can think of offhand except a kill by the Lord of Chaos or a Lynch.Your kill is a superkill, as stated by the mod.
Quote
Nope, I don't actually know what he did- haven't read that one yet, beyond looking at abilities for Special Guesting. His was actually in the form of "extra lynch" too, though it only required plurality.QuoteSo you admit you were being selfish about it. I mean, if you weren't going to hammer, then ok- you could have either gone with the slightly smaller consensus OR put it out there "If someone else wants to hammer, don't, I'll kill him instead and we get two lynches". Treat it like Alex-chan's ability.
I want this to be made very...very clear.
So you're saying I'm supposed to use my daykill on someone I did not think was scum just because the town wants that person dead?
Do you remember what Alex actually did with his daykill back in Bay 12?
Quote
Eh? It's the wording I attacked, not the timing. "would serve well as a lynch" sounds scummier than alternatives like "appears to be scum" or the like.Quoteaddressed above under hypocrisy
Addressed above as well
Btw, I noticed you skipped #8.
Quote
Quote"Funny that" without explanation. I havetwogood reasons to use it on you.
1. It's something that you're claiming points scum on others and are trying to wave off from your attacks (more hypocrisy)
2. It's showing up (as you point out) rather like a cherry on top of any good scum evidence pile
3. I figured out what was wrong with my original theory about the statistics (3/4 of 9)-third/fourth not to be late to party, but to avoid being prime/second (high-visibility) and to avoid hammer (fifth), but helping to build a wagon.
In other words, "HAHA let's lynch Dakarian using his own devices." Are you trying to get me killed as scum or just wanting to "see the mighty fall"?
"lynch dakarian using his own devices" = "lynch dakarian for hypocrisy". and I'm Fine with that.
Quote
You said yourself that you don't care for 3rd vote. As such you wouldn't have a reason to notice it unless it was me using it.See above where I point at web's 4thvote
Quote
As such, the only reason you bring it up is because of the irony and the sheer pleasure its bringing you that "I would fall to my own traps." In fact, it gives a double benefit. Not only can you get me lynched by it, but you can prove it wrong by having it lynch a townie.And here I see you dropping the "BTW I'm town" scumtell. AGAIN.
Quote
It's seriously looking like you just want me killed.. not actually trying to go after scum.QuoteMore posts, more to analyze, yet you complain.
Spent an entire day working on that widescan. You bet that I'll complain. You'll also bet that I so much prefer it to the silent mess many of the other games deliver.
I complain about my cat, Litia, for harassing my other pets, stealing food from everyone, and being a nuance at times. I'll kill anyone who tries to hurt her.
People who are more than one-dimensional are NOT scum. You, of course, don't care since it's just a means to get me killed.
Quote from: dakarian
You're not appearing like the town-dakarian I know. I cannot argue about a town-dakarian I do not know, so I argue from the one I do know. YOu're not it, and (see above where I quote a certain someone on town tells and the absence thereof)Quote from: CobaltKoboldI said above, this is way ANYONE should play. IF your meta is changing from 'ideal town player'...
Funny that. I was closer to your idea of the 'ideal player' when Vector tore me to pieces back in BM1. When I step away from your 'ideal player model', I catch scum much more regularly (to the point where I'm getting NKed left and right :P).
Only scum worry so much about looking 'perfect' to other players. Townies do whatever they need to so long as they scumhunt.
Quote from: dakarian
If WIFOM exists then it is not mine. Two people died that day. They were both town. Ergo, you gave the town two mislynches. Already discussed how you did not do it in a way that would be making it a "bonus lynch".QuoteUm...yeah. Wow. You're pointing out/creating your OWN WIFOM and trying to say that it's mine. No.Nicetry.
Not exactly.
Your the one playing Vizzy saying that you know exactly what I planned. You're the one willing to ignore the idea that Town-Dakarian just may have just wanted to use that Daykill right then and went strait for the Scum-Dakarian theory with no evidence of either direction.
Thus it's your wine, not mine.
Quote from: dakarian
Seems patently obvious to me that it was Exkirby based on him asking for a replacement.QuoteThe defeatism appears to be crossgame, not because he's scum here (And look! We can even point out that he wasn't scum here!)- that he always gets quickly lynched for being exkirby.
"ExKirby being ExKirby" was figured out AFTER that daykill. Now, we can look at him and go "meh, Newtells". Then it wasn't quite so clear.
Quote from: dakarian
So yes, it's easy to read him now. If you knew of it then I would've loved to have heard of it while I was asking everyone how they felt about an ExKirby Vig.Well, as you may have noticed I was NOT THERE to object. It's a hammer game. The day lasts...as long as it is wanted. Somewhat differently, ExKirby would last an amount of time of your choice. Your choice precluded my objection.
Quote from: dakarian
See pokerface comment of yours. Again.QuoteQuote from: dakarianSee above "That's funny" you're pulling on my "third vote use", where you are doing the EXACT SAME THING. Hypocrite.QuoteThey're your scummy actions-I shouldn't have to explain your actions. Explaining why they're scummy- that I'm doing. (Assuming people will grasp a concept when I display only necessary steps is a failing of mine sometimes.)
The problem is that for much of them you DON'T explain why they are scummy. A one word "that's bad" is NOT explaining yourself. I have to guess at 'why' you thought something looked bad in order to speak about them, and at that point I'm creating the argument for you.
Explain this one, because it's sounding like you're just after my play style with this, not actually aiming for scum.
Quote from: dakarian
YES I want you lynched by your own scummy actions.Quote from: CobaltKoboldQuote from: dkarianI'm not the Perfect Robot Player that you think I am and frankly, I dislike the idea of getting lynched because of it.Fear of death, noted.
Third use of my style, noted.
Which further adds to the "get dakarian lynched by his own devices" argument, which isn't exactly scumhunting, but just trying to get me killed in a very ironic way.
Quote from: dakarian
LastlyDakarian cancels Construct Building: Job object lost or destroyed.QuoteAnd now again. The house of cards tumbles down...
Allow me to replace it with a brick castle.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 03, 2009, 09:40:03 pm
@Everyone:Using your arguments is more powerful because it means you are performing behaviors that you yourself think are scummy, making you not merely scum, but hypocritical scum.
CobaltKobold has NOT been trying to actually scumhunt. The only thing she has truly been doing is attempting to destroy my playing style. Instead of using her own arguments and reasonings to find scum, she's been looking for every attempt to 'throw my own arguments at my face' to both kill me off and discredit my arguments even after I'm dead. She bends definitions, arguments, and past posts into any form of attack she can think of.
Quote
She's not trying to lynch a scummy Dakarian. She's just trying to get someone she thinks she can lynch, lynched.
Quote
She's already at L-2, but she clearly doesn't much find that of concern, clearly thinking that she's going to live once she revives the bandwagon on me. She won't claim, and does little to defend herself.Scum are afraid for their lives. I am not. And what have I been doing, exactly?
Quote
If you find a fault in my argument against her-that you feel that she may still be town acting like this, please express them.Agreed on all three counts.
If you find my reasonings sound but you still have questions or are unsure then please speak to CobaltKobold about them, so you can be sure either way.
If you agree with my findings and have nothing left to offer to CobaltKobold then let's end this day and hammer her.
Quote
And yes, with that, I'm done with you, Cobalt.But I am not done with you...at least argumentwise. It looks like our debate is cut short by Mephansteras's suggestion to confirm you.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 03, 2009, 09:43:49 pm
Quote from: Hard hits got orphaned because I was cut/pasting them. Found 'em.QuoteI feel, however, that I have not been entirely precise in that characterization."I am attacking but hedging my bets." = CAUTIOUS. lso, making other people fill in your arguments = scum:
"No particular statements because it's blatant and general" = I'm not supporting my arguments also I am attacking meta vs "Meta is not a traditional scumtell"QuoteThen, most of the inconsistencies and hypocrisies he "seems to have found" are actually applications of different thinking to different situations, such as calling Dakarian out for a claim request just before vigging ExKirby. This may simply just be inflexible thinking, however, so I push this one somewhat less strongly and ask merely that he think harder before posting.-more caution. Vector.
"It turns out that I was mistaken," followed by "Fifth, there still remain inconsistencies in his arguments, which he has brushed over."-hypocrisy- brushing over own mistakes, followed by accusing me of same.
" I apologize for the lack of quotations in the below; they are partially because the behaviors are rampant, and partially because it is nearly impossible to dig them out of his crunched blocks of text." vs. "I have carefully combed through the recent statements in an attempt to figure out what, precisely, was bothering me about his statements." apparent inconsistency.
a. "I feel I have not been precise in that characterization" == what I was writing was a general idea of what I meant, but not what I actually meant. I'm sick and tired of playing word games with you because you don't like how I put something. Is writing more precisely hedging your bets?
No. "Hedging bets" would involve writing in your style, so that there were so many interpretations to everything you write that we cannot help being wrong, over and over again. You are intentionally tripping people up with your explanatory system, and it ... well, I'm really tired of saying this, too, but it makes me angry.
Writing precisely means you're avoiding something.
Quote
Further, I have not seen any place in which I was allowing people to fill in my arguments. The most I've done is said "Find your own damn quotes--I'll reference events that are easily memorable, but I'm not going to go prying those suckers out." Lazy, maybe, but I'm not forcing others to fill anything in but your pain-in-the-ass quotations."Nothing! Nothing but one..."
Quote
Interesting how you'll attack me for my lack of quotations, but didn't attack Dakarian for following me on the behavior. That's inconsistency at its finest.I can only attack so much before I miss something.
Quote from: Vector
b. "No particular statements because it's blatant and general" != "I am attacking meta => hypocrisy." It means "Your scumtells are all over the place, so that even a braindead two-year-old could find them without a flashlight." Also, "if you happen to be a braindead one-year-old sans flashlight, I will be more than happy to direct you to the posts in question. I just don't have much time right now."..note to self: fully reconstruct quote tags in future. Anyway, here...you're...asking people to fill in the details in your arguments! Hypocrisy, and directly adjacent to where you are saying you are not asking people to fill in any of your arguments!
It's not so much about "how you're behaving differently from usual" as it is about "how you're behaving right now, in this game alone."
Quote from: Vector
c. "More caution"? More like "Vector sees a different interpretation for this behavior. Vector thinks inflexibly across situations, himself! It ends up looking just like this. Maybe I should bring up this point but mostly leave it alone, given that I cannot figure out which of the two interpretations it is. If I get more evidence for one than the other, then I will decide what to do."Caution is for thinking, not for posting. Town-vector knows this. You, pparently, do not.
Quote from: Vector
d. We seem to be using different definitions of "brushing off" and "addressing." You brush things off, i.e. people say "You did this wrong!" and you say nothing. I address my errors by issuing apologies for being incorrect--i.e., I admit my mistakes and don't continue to push my poorly-formed ideas after the fact. Not hypocritical, doodabuddy.I already issued a correction.
Quote from: Vector
e. "I looked carefully through the text. I am not, however, going to spend hours furnishing an internet forum with all the quotations coinciding to every behavior." How is this inconsistent?If you were looking carefully, then it would be relatively quick (quote in new tab, cut, paste into building post is how I do it) to put in evidence.
Quote from: Vector
I'm not perfect and one-dimensional. I know this. My suggestion is that you stop complaining at people for being human, given that it is PROFOUNDLY irritating.Is this a nice game? No. We shake people 'til scumtells fall out. Being irritating helps do that.
Quote from: Vector
It increases their scumminess. When half the town is doing it, it makes that half scummier than the other half. One should lynch from the scummier half, no?Quote..if half the town is acting scummy, then I can't base my arguments against them based on that scumminess? This makes no sense, Vector. Stop grasping at straws.
If half the town is acting scummy in precisely the same fashion, then you cannot base your arguments against a single person on that ground alone. Thus I don't think your complaints against Dakarian (where they are mostly talking about his "appeals to emotion") are valid, and I think you should know that already.
Quote from: Vector
I have explained myself.QuoteFurther, as I've been saying: most of your stated "hypocrisy" is not hypocritical at all. You like throwing that word around like it's candy, whereas most of what I see is "CobaltKobold is trying to get everybody lynched on the mildest of offenses." Then, you also end up just going "HYPOCRISY! CONTRADICTION!" with very little explanation whatsoever. At the very least, it's severely anti-town. At the most, it's scummy.Finding inconsistencies is serious stuff, because scum are far, FAR more likely to be inconsistent.
You aren't addressing what I'm actually saying at all. Finding inconsistencies: yes, that's serious stuff. Going through yelling "HYPOCRISY AND CONTRADICTION, AND NO I WON'T EXPLAIN MYSELF!" is also serious stuff, and it happens to be ridiculously scummy.
Quote from: Vector
I mean... "I've pulled the bottom card out of a house of cards again! ;D" with THIS stuff? Are you serious? You aren't even addressing my accusations, and in the above tab of scummy stuff you KEEP ON WRITING THE SAME WAY.I am addressing your accusations.
Quote from: Vector
Not terribly, but jokes in lieu of scumhunting are generally considered scummy.Quote from: VectorA joke? Vector?Quote from: VectorThe purpose of the above statements is to inform CobaltKobold that, if he is town, he would do well to reconsider his attacking style, as it is so full of holes that the only thing it will hold is viscous liquid. Such as scum.The icing my be holy, but there is still a cake beneath it.
The cake is a lie.
A popular culture reference.
... What, do I have a reputation for being humorless?
Quote from: Vector
Calling it a staged-fight is...let's see, how is that wifom. Comparing...QuoteHappily? I retracted the statement, didn't I?Quote from: VectorSecond, though he addresses the WIFOM-spreading, he does not address his apparent cautiousness. Further, all that crap about staged fights is nothing but a vat of WIFOM, and it constitutes most of his arguments against Webadict and perhaps half of the WoT against dakarian.*shrug* It's my interpretation. It's been...interesting that they've been into each other all game. Also, the nature of the fights is very odd, since each of them are throwing mostly-bad arguments against eachother. "I have a hole but I'm not telling you" for instance.
You have a duty not to WIFOM the town. The fact that you are doing so happily bothers me.
I don't see you retracting the statement. I see you explaining it and trying to reinforce it in the above quotation. Hence, yes. "CobaltKobold is happily WIFOMing the town."
"These two are scum, it's a staged fight!" "But that's what they want me to think!"
"This person is scum!" "But that's what they want me to think!"
...not seeing it.
Quote from: Vector
I am speaking logically, and trying to explain myself. Apparently you're not listening.QuoteI treat a bit more as meta than you do, I think. if someone is known for (town)strong arguments, and gives weak ones- that's both scummy(weak arguments) and metascummy(different to their town meta).QuoteThird, his arguments continue to be horrifyingly flimsy. His statement was that he was pointing out "every scummy thing as it floated by, which doesn't look very town." This is not the issue I take with his statements. The problem is that he argues based on (extremely old) meta and, rather than searching for scumtells, seems to have confounded himself with "not-town-tells"--i.e., nulltells.Null-tells would be either known self-used tells (which are going to be town-tells).
Uh.... no. Null-tells are things that players do when they are town or scum. We have three options: town-tells, null-tells, and scumtells. The fact that Dakarian is acting in a way that does not coincide with his town-tells does not mean that he is displaying his scumtells, or is even scum.
Null-tells are either known self-used tells, or... what? What I'm saying here is that you really aren't doing much by way of identifying scumtells. Mostly, you're sitting about digging up nulltells, and asking us to believe you're town.
Ah-ha, kind of like you used to speak logically and coherently and suddenly you're spewing these messes. Now I understand.
You may have gone quote-happy in BMIV, but at least you tried to explain yourself.
Quote from: Vector
Interesting, yes, that some cultures King is Ruler, and Queen is Ruler Consort, regardless of gender. But beside any points.QuoteNo, that difference is the difference between commenting on something and hamming it up to get the town on your side for no good reason.QuoteFurther, the "appeals to emotion" he has found do not constitute true appeals to emotion. Everyone in this thread (a generalization, as I am sure someone has been lurking too much to complain) has complained about its length/ridiculousness here or elsewhere. The "appeals to emotion" he found in me were nothing but apologies after having made grating statements.There is quite a difference betweenQuote from: dakarianA bigger part tells me that Wide Scanning 19 people will make me cry. *sigh*and, something like "Yikes, 10 pages overnight"- for instance.
Yes. That difference is called "personality." Are we allowed to have those, or has King Kobold banned them, too?
Also, Queen Kobold.
Maybe so. I will continue to posit that Dakarian is acting just the way he usually does, but will leave this point for now.
Also, King Hatshepsut.
Quote from: Vector
I suppose I asked for that.I pointed it out by virtue of throwing a mass of quotes at you. I suppose saying "Here we find three buddyings, including, suspiciously, webadict!" would be superior, but communication has been a problem for me, clearly.
Yes. I suggest you work on that.
Quote from: Vector
QuoteI feel like you're saying "Well, you're just too dumb to understand what I mean, then, what with my sesquipedalian diction," to which I answer "screw you." Being smart includes knowing how to communicate, not just dicking around with things that are so obvious to you and so unobvious to us, the idiots. This feeling increases when I remember the argument with Cheeetar, where you defined a "referent" asI am using the correct form of the word. (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/indexical) Indexical as noun: an indexical statement: a statement pointing at something else. "An index" does not contain this meaning.referent: concept to which an indexical refers.
"An indexical?" Really? If you're going to bash us for spelling incorrectly (sware vs. swear), how about learning to use the correct form of a word?
1. Screw dictionary.com.
I used wiktionary. You start word-pedantry and don't bother to get a big thing like that right?
Have something much, MUCH better, anyway. http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/indexicals/ - the paragraph starting "According to Stanley and Szabo" explains roughly what I was pointing out at the time, a hidden referent.
Quote from: Vector
2. Amusing how Dakarian has also picked up on the insane amounts of hubris you're spewing everywhere. Not really an important point; I just think it's funny.Hubris is unwarranted pride.
Quote from: Vector
3. This is a formal request (what, the third one?) that you start working harder on communicating with us. I don't care how awesome you think you are, you need to work on it. You may be the best scum-hunter who ever lived, but you're just going to keep getting lynched if you continue to argue like this.Ooh, a policy-lynch threat!
I AM trying. One, I'm not using any of the three layers of misdirection as I'm wont to do in everyday speech.
Two, ask for clarification if I'm not clear.
Quote from: Vector
Isn't it just?QuoteI have made statements, I have addressed it.QuoteFifth, there still remain inconsistencies in his arguments, which he has brushed over. When we were still functioning under the assumption that he had indeed spoken about the doctor in BMIV, he stated that his inconsistency was reasonable given that he had started playing Mafia two weeks ago. When I brought up the fact that he had started perhaps a month and a half ago, he completely brushed it off.Grasping at straws, I see. You're arguing that my "If it was my first two weeks" comment is bad because it wasn't my first two weeks. However, the point that I'm making with it- that it is still incredibly early in my mafia tenure (or whatever you want to call it)- does not hinge on that fact. So yes, I don't see it as a problem to be found as mistaken or incorrect on a fact that does not impact the game. Like, for instance, if I got your gender wrong. It would not matter for the game unless it was integral to some argument. So, a pronoun inconsistency would not be grounds for "lynch all liars".
What I see here is an individual who is bending fact and, when someone brings up the fact that he is incorrect, does not correct himself, apologize, or bring up further reasoning. He forgets the point as soon as it has been noticed, perhaps in an attempt to cause others to forget as well.
No. My point is not about that specific inconsistency. It is about the part where I made a remark about your being inconsistent, and you ignored it until I brought it up... again. In combination with Dakarian's noticing you ignoring his attacks so many times, it is scummy in the extreme.
Further, it did seem to influence the game at the time. As such, your failure to make any statement about it is suspect.
If it's so small, why not own up to it? Why not address it? Instead, you leave it out and later cover by saying "But that wasn't important!!"
...
Now you have, after a whole bunch of crap where I run around and try to get you to talk. That's just fabulous.
Quote from: Vector
Clap your hands if you believe.No, it's that other people were commenting -not that the person was scum- but that their behavior(meta) was off. The overblown is because I knocked down the rest of your attacks.
Fair enough.And now again. The house of cards tumbles down...
Wishful thinking. You cannot bend iron bars with your desire to be free.
Code: [Select]
Useful tips for quotebrick junkies:
1. cut and paste something like [quote=Vector] and paste it when you make your breaks. saves typing.
2. Use preview. Save yourself agony of a missed tag.
3. Use another tab where you read the post you're working on to see easily what quote level the stuff you're addressing is on.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 03, 2009, 09:47:44 pm
They're plain to me...I shall rephrase them in question form, because the town does feel a little underrepresented in arguments.@Everyone:
CobaltKobold has NOT been trying to actually scumhunt. The only thing she has truly been doing is attempting to destroy my playing style. Instead of using her own arguments and reasonings to find scum, she's been looking for every attempt to 'throw my own arguments at my face' to both kill me off and discredit my arguments even after I'm dead. She bends definitions, arguments, and past posts into any form of attack she can think of.
She's not trying to lynch a scummy Dakarian. She's just trying to get someone she thinks she can lynch, lynched.
She's already at L-2, but she clearly doesn't much find that of concern, clearly thinking that she's going to live once she revives the bandwagon on me. She won't claim, and does little to defend herself.
If you find a fault in my argument against her-that you feel that she may still be town acting like this, please express them.
If you find my reasonings sound but you still have questions or are unsure then please speak to CobaltKobold about them, so you can be sure either way.
If you agree with my findings and have nothing left to offer to CobaltKobold then let's end this day and hammer her.
And yes, with that, I'm done with you, Cobalt.
I didn't see a question and still don't!
1.Do you(any townie) find fault in dakarian's argument? IF so, what?
2. Do you(any townie) have other misgivings? If so, ask CobaltKobold (me) about them.
Post by: dakarian on December 03, 2009, 10:15:35 pm
If you do think I'm scum, are you going to call Meph's bluff? If not, then do you believe him?
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 03, 2009, 10:27:51 pm
if you're scum, he's scum(town would not lie to protect you), and if he's not scum, you're not scum. (All implications are equivalent to their contrapositive: a->b := !b->!a)
But if he's scum, it means nothing on your alignment...but I'd be fine with that case because hey, lynched scum.
Similarly, if you're town, it means nothing on his alignment.
Barring miller-type deals, anyway. Though, if I lynch you, then the miller-type-deal will flip, and tell us Meph's alignment.
I think you're scum. Therefore, I think he would be scum, thanks to his investigate claim.
But, I think I want to lynch scum, rather than lynching town to find town. Therefore, vote stays on you.
Post by: dakarian on December 03, 2009, 10:36:22 pm
If I'm town it tells NOTHING of Mephs alignment since he can be honest town or scum with a fakeclaim (very easy to fake who kills who when you already know who is and is not scum).
If he's town then it heavily leads to me being town. if he's scum then it's sure fire than I'm lynched.
Meh if he's scum I'll die gladly. One scum for one town is about as good as it gets.
But you don't want that. You don't care, you just want me lynched. You KNOW you won't get me lynched if Meph confirms me. That's all you care about after all.
So do whatever you like. You tie the noose on your head either way, and so long as scum dies today or tomorrow, I die content.
Post by: webadict on December 03, 2009, 10:43:09 pm
Because Meph, we will lose two townies in that case. You and Dakarian. That's just no good...which makes me wonder of my vote on Dakarian.Yeah, sure. Whatever you want. Is this a (terribly executed) OMGUS?
Unvote Dakarian.
Vote Webadict, die scum.
Post by: Mr.Person on December 03, 2009, 11:09:33 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on December 03, 2009, 11:28:33 pm
Cobalt, because of reasons I have already stated.
Toony, because of the stupid OMGUS he did on me and how much sense he is not making.
Answer that please, Toony.Earlier you believed Cobalt was scum, because he was in one of your lists about who the scum was. Now, you don't. What changed your mind?Also, what changed your mind about Cobalt being a scum? Don't just quote a post and leave it. Quote a post, explain which parts. Put some effort in.
TOONYMAN ONLY TUNNELVISION HAHAHA I CAN GET HIM WITH THIS
Stop saying nonsense, I have absolutely NO CLUE what you are babbling about with targets and all.
Unvote CobaltKobold, vote Mephansteras.
After Meph turns up town and Dakarian is either night-killed or protected, we should lynch Cobalt.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 03, 2009, 11:33:57 pm
Failed logic.Failed reading.
Quote from: dakarian
If I'm town it tells NOTHING of Mephs alignment since he can be honest town or scum with a fakeclaim (very easy to fake who kills who when you already know who is and is not scum).
Well, what it does is very plainly removes the cases where you and he are differently aligned...
if you're scum, he's scum(town would not lie to protect you), and if he's not scum, you're not scum. (All implications are equivalent to their contrapositive: a->b := !b->!a)
But if he's scum, it means nothing on your alignment...but I'd be fine with that case because hey, lynched scum.
Similarly, if you're town, it means nothing on his alignment.
Quote
If he's town then it heavily leads to me being town. if he's scum then it's sure fire than I'm lynched.You're doing it wrong. If he's scum, then he is not necessarily telling the truth.
It's not quite a Knights and Knaves (pure truthtellers vs pure liars) problem.
[Meh if he's scum I'll die gladly. One scum for one town is about as good as it gets.
Quote
But you don't want that. You don't care, you just want me lynched. You KNOW you won't get me lynched if Meph confirms me. That's all you care about after all.Probably not.
Quote
So do whatever you like. You tie the noose on your head either way, and so long as scum dies today or tomorrow, I die content.No, you tie the noose on your neck.
Sooo... how long are we going to do this? Why on EARTH are we lynching Mephansteras right now, considering we have about 2 misynches left?Lessee...14:4 -> 12:4 -> 10:4.
Two and a half(nolynch). Good.
You know what, CobaltKobold is not scumhunting. He's jumping at Dakarian and pulling out stupid stops to get it done. CobaltKobold, assume both Dakarian and Meph are scum. Who ELSE is scum?Assuming both are?
Webadict and Toony are my chief suspects.
I think I'd still like everyone's reactions to dakarian's wifom when he was talking to Webadict about use of the cheat/supercop ability:
Quote from: dakarian
the mafia don't seem afraid of it or else they'd kill you already while you were still blocked.
Post by: webadict on December 03, 2009, 11:34:27 pm
Scumteam: Cobalt, Toonyman, some other guy.REALLY?
Cobalt, because of reasons I have already stated.
Toony, because of the stupid OMGUS he did on me and how much sense he is not making.Answer that please, Toony.Earlier you believed Cobalt was scum, because he was in one of your lists about who the scum was. Now, you don't. What changed your mind?Also, what changed your mind about Cobalt being a scum? Don't just quote a post and leave it. Quote a post, explain which parts. Put some effort in.
TOONYMAN ONLY TUNNELVISION HAHAHA I CAN GET HIM WITH THIS
Stop saying nonsense, I have absolutely NO CLUE what you are babbling about with targets and all.
Unvote CobaltKobold, vote Mephansteras.
After Meph turns up town and Dakarian is either night-killed or protected, we should lynch Cobalt.
REALLY?
So, you know for a fact he'll come up town, do ya?
DO YA CHEEETAR?
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 03, 2009, 11:38:03 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on December 03, 2009, 11:43:29 pm
No, but a scum calling for his own lynch would be extremely stupid. He's either town or a jester, and I don't believe he's a jester.Scumteam: Cobalt, Toonyman, some other guy.REALLY?
Cobalt, because of reasons I have already stated.
Toony, because of the stupid OMGUS he did on me and how much sense he is not making.Answer that please, Toony.Earlier you believed Cobalt was scum, because he was in one of your lists about who the scum was. Now, you don't. What changed your mind?Also, what changed your mind about Cobalt being a scum? Don't just quote a post and leave it. Quote a post, explain which parts. Put some effort in.
TOONYMAN ONLY TUNNELVISION HAHAHA I CAN GET HIM WITH THIS
Stop saying nonsense, I have absolutely NO CLUE what you are babbling about with targets and all.
Unvote CobaltKobold, vote Mephansteras.
After Meph turns up town and Dakarian is either night-killed or protected, we should lynch Cobalt.
REALLY?
So, you know for a fact he'll come up town, do ya?
DO YA CHEEETAR?
Post by: webadict on December 03, 2009, 11:47:56 pm
Post by: dakarian on December 03, 2009, 11:51:57 pm
Do you believe Meph to be town or scum?
Post by: Cheeetar on December 03, 2009, 11:55:45 pm
So then why are you lynching him if you know he's town?To confirm Dakarian, so what he has said so far can be trusted as genuine scum hunting and for the possibility that he will survive the night and we can roleclaim to him.
Post by: webadict on December 04, 2009, 12:11:49 am
One, no PMs. Two, there's easier way and that's a big waste of a mislynch. Three, we could do the same to you.So then why are you lynching him if you know he's town?To confirm Dakarian, so what he has said so far can be trusted as genuine scum hunting and for the possibility that he will survive the night and we can roleclaim to him.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 04, 2009, 12:13:50 am
2. What easier way? If you have one, please say it.
3. But why would you?
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 04, 2009, 12:14:00 am
@Cheeetar:
PPE:Ninja'd by webby.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 04, 2009, 12:15:40 am
Post by: webadict on December 04, 2009, 12:17:10 am
If you were town, and you could confirm a townie at the cost of your own life, you would. A confirmed townie is a huge boon to the town.Yeah, that happens when they die. Why don't we use the ones from yesterday or the day before, huh?
Post by: Cheeetar on December 04, 2009, 12:18:23 am
Post by: webadict on December 04, 2009, 12:21:24 am
...? I don't get quite what you are trying to say.Basically that lynching them is stupid and a bad way to end the day, especially since it's likely to end in dakarian's death.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 04, 2009, 12:23:34 am
Post by: webadict on December 04, 2009, 12:31:37 am
Why is it stupid. If we confirm Dakarian, he will probably be protected during the night and we will be able to trust all the scumhunting he has done.Uh huh. This just makes the WIFOM easier.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 04, 2009, 12:41:37 am
...? I don't get quite what you are trying to say.
Post by: dakarian on December 04, 2009, 12:43:56 am
The reason you aren't voting for Meph is because...
But, I think I want to lynch scum, rather than lynching town to find town. Therefore, vote stays on you.
Which suggests you don't want to lynch Meph-Town. The quote also shows you believe that I might have a role that messes with his inspection (I believe you're after 'godfather' as the "looks town but isn't" role).
However when I ask if you think Meph is scum you say this:
@Dakarian: Scum, as I think you are scum. I'm taking his forensics with a grain of salt as they couldn't answer Leafsnail and (anti)millers/godfathers are always possible. (And, well, plain ol' scum lying.) The throwing self on lynch block is rather suspect too.
So if he's scum why are you NOT voting for him in order to KILL A SCUM?
In fact, why would you even bring up the issue of millers and antimillers and godfathers if he's scum since HE WOULD JUST LIE ABOUT THE CLAIM ANYWAY.
Millers/antimillers/godfather only come into play if the investigator is Town.
So you believe Meph is scum but you do NOT want to vote for him because I might be an anti-miller?
No.. that makes no sense. Townies want scum lynched. If they know of two scum they'll want both lynched and what does it matter which goes first?
No, what makes more sense is if you don't want Meph to die, but you want me to die. Why? Depends:
If Meph is scum then, of course, you want him to live and to have my roleflip 'confirm' him.
If Meph is town then, of course, you want him to live because that would provide a strong defense towards me who you want killed no matter what.
Even the most foolish of townies would lynch ALL scum they find and wouldn't give up one scum for another. I know you are far from foolish as town. As scum, though, you just showed your true intentions.
Unvote-Meph
Vote CobaltKobold
Cobalt, thank you for the final piece I needed. Die today or you die tomorrow. But you WILL die.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 04, 2009, 12:55:04 am
Vote CobaltKobold.
'Oh my god you're changing your vote really quickly without reasoning'
I already believed he was scum. I voted Meph to get a confirmed townie. Now that Dakarian has noticed something that is pretty substantial evidence Cobalt was scum, there is the near certainty that he WILL get lynched, so I will vote for him. Yes, I unvoted when I saw he could not be lynched. I might as well put my vote to use.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 04, 2009, 01:04:23 am
Cobalt...Taken out of context, this is laughably absurd as scum-attack. "You're scum 'cause you don't want to lynch town over scum."
The reason you aren't voting for Meph is because...But, I think I want to lynch scum, rather than lynching town to find town. Therefore, vote stays on you.
Which suggests you don't want to lynch Meph-Town.
Quote
The quote also shows you believe that I might have a role that messes with his inspection (I believe you're after 'godfather' as the "looks town but isn't" role).it's BYOR. Role abilities are going to show up in interesting combinations, most likely. Antimiller is the specific ability that shows up town. Godfather is a kill-immune antimiller mafioso, usually.
Quote
However when I ask if you think Meph is scum you say this:Why, I have a very good reason! Wait for it...@Dakarian: Scum, as I think you are scum. I'm taking his forensics with a grain of salt as they couldn't answer Leafsnail and (anti)millers/godfathers are always possible. (And, well, plain ol' scum lying.) The throwing self on lynch block is rather suspect too.
So if he's scum why are you NOT voting for him in order to KILL A SCUM?
Spoiler: This argument is unnecessary. A far better one is below. (click to show/hide)
Quote
In fact, why would you even bring up the issue of millers and antimillers and godfathers if he's scum since HE WOULD JUST LIE ABOUT THE CLAIM ANYWAY.
Millers/antimillers/godfather only come into play if the investigator is Town.
Spoiler: This argument is unnecessary. A far better one is below. (click to show/hide)
Quote
So you believe Meph is scum but you do NOT want to vote for him because I might be an anti-miller?
Spoiler: This argument is unnecessary. A far better one is below. (click to show/hide)
Quote from: dakarian
No.. that makes no sense. Townies want scum lynched. If they know of two scum they'll want both lynched and what does it matter which goes first?
Spoiler: This argument is unnecessary. A far better one is below. (click to show/hide)
Quote
No, what makes more sense is if you don't want Meph to die, but you want me to die. Why? Depends:
If Meph is scum then, of course, you want him to live and to have my roleflip 'confirm' him.
Spoiler: This argument is unnecessary. A far better one is below. (click to show/hide)
Quote
If Meph is town then, of course, you want him to live because that would provide a strong defense towards me who you want killed no matter what.
Even the most foolish of townies would lynch ALL scum they find and wouldn't give up one scum for another. I know you are far from foolish as town. As scum, though, you just showed your true intentions.
Spoiler: This argument is unnecessary. A far better one is below. (click to show/hide)
Unvote-Meph
Vote CobaltKobold[/quote]You are sooo scummy.
Actually, there's a very good reason I'm not voting for him.
Unvote CobaltKobold, vote Mephansteras.Mephansteras was at L-1, at the time I posted that. Now, you have put Mephansteras at L-2. Now, let's see, what was it...oh yeah.
After Meph turns up town and Dakarian is either night-killed or protected, we should lynch Cobalt.
Very well, though just in case something goes wrong in the night, I'll want time to make an overall writeup.You still want that?
Quote
Cobalt, thank you for the final piece I needed. Die today or you die tomorrow. But you WILL die.bloodthirsty much? Your piece is laughable.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 04, 2009, 01:07:51 am
Unvote Mephansteras.wow, bevy of scumtells here.
Vote CobaltKobold.
'Oh my god you're changing your vote really quickly without reasoning'
I already believed he was scum. I voted Meph to get a confirmed townie. Now that Dakarian has noticed something that is pretty substantial evidence Cobalt was scum, there is the near certainty that he WILL get lynched, so I will vote for her. Yes, I unvoted when I saw she could not be lynched. I might as well put my vote to use.
(0. You're not voting without reasoning, you're)
1. Voting on someone else's argument. Scummy.
2. Vote-Jumping in response to someone else. Scummy.
Furthermore, see above post.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 04, 2009, 01:09:56 am
Cobalt...Taken out of context, this is laughably absurd as scum-attack. "You're scum 'cause you don't want to lynch town over scum."
The reason you aren't voting for Meph is because...But, I think I want to lynch scum, rather than lynching town to find town. Therefore, vote stays on you.
Which suggests you don't want to lynch Meph-Town.
Taken out of context, yes.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 04, 2009, 01:10:43 am
Post by: Cheeetar on December 04, 2009, 01:12:08 am
Let's say you think Meph and Dak are scum. Why not vote meph, as he was at L-1 and would be easier to lynch?
Let's say you think Meph and Dak are town. Why not vote meph, to confirm Dakarian?
Let's say you think Meph is scum and Dak is town. Why not vote meph, to kill scum?
Let's say you think Meph is town and Dak is scum. How is that even possible?
Post by: webadict on December 04, 2009, 01:14:36 am
Hey Cobalt, let's go through a range of possible things here.As much as I think Cheeetar's scummy, these points are all valid.
Let's say you think Meph and Dak are scum. Why not vote meph, as he was at L-1 and would be easier to lynch?
Let's say you think Meph and Dak are town. Why not vote meph, to confirm Dakarian?
Let's say you think Meph is scum and Dak is town. Why not vote meph, to kill scum?
Let's say you think Meph is town and Dak is scum. How is that even possible?
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 04, 2009, 01:21:41 am
Quote from: CobaltKobold
Unvote-Mephthat was supposed to be in quote in my post (dakarian said it)-.
Vote CobaltKobold
As insurance:
unvote cobaltkobold
vote dakarian
Quote
Let's say you think Meph and Dak are scum. Why not vote meph, as he was at L-1 and would be easier to lynch?This is more or less the case. And it is answered in the above post I asked you to read.
(snip)HAMMERING MEPHANSTERAS WOULD PREVENT DAKARIAN FROM LEGALLY GIVING HIS WRITEUP. That's the biggest reason I am not-I'm not voting for Mephansteras (in this situation) until Dakarian posts whatever he has planned.Very well, though just in case something goes wrong in the night, I'll want time to make an overall writeup.
Quote from: Cheeetar
Let's say you think Meph and Dak are town. Why not vote meph, to confirm Dakarian?Because I'd rather kill scum.
Let's say you think Meph is scum and Dak is town. Why not vote meph, to kill scum?[/quote]No reason, but I don't think that's the case. I have a load more evidence on Dakarian, for one.
Quote
Let's say you think Meph is town and Dak is scum. How is that even possible?Said already:an antimiller type ability (which means in this case would be if dakarian's kill came up "town" to inspects, when he was not)
Post by: dakarian on December 04, 2009, 01:30:24 am
I thought you weren't voting because you'd rather me lynched instead of Meph, not that you were just waiting before you hammered. If you aren't planning on voting for him at all, how can 'I'm waiting' be your biggest reason?
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 04, 2009, 01:38:23 am
Wait, so NOW the reason you didn't vote was because you're waiting for my write up?An unsupported allegation that I'm changing a reason I'm not voting for mephansteras...
Quote from: dakarian
I thought you weren't voting because you'd rather me lynched instead of Meph, not that you were just waiting before you hammered. If you aren't planning on voting for him at all, how can 'I'm waiting' be your biggest reason?
It's the biggest prudential reason. Spoilered were the reasons I'm not voting for him aside from that. Some of them repeated below. Foremost being that...you're scum, and I'm voting you to kill scum.
@Everyone
Some more hypocrisy from dakarian.
Quote from: dakarian
However when I ask if you think Meph is scum you say this:Because I think dakarian's scum and I'm voting for him to KILL A SCUM! Below, he says that town don't give up one scum for another.Quote from: CobaltKobold
@Dakarian: Scum, as I think you are scum. I'm taking his forensics with a grain of salt as they couldn't answer Leafsnail and (anti)millers/godfathers are always possible. (And, well, plain ol' scum lying.) The throwing self on lynch block is rather suspect too.
So if he's scum why are you NOT voting for him in order to KILL A SCUM?
Quote from: dakarian
Even the most foolish of townies would lynch ALL scum they find and wouldn't give up one scum for another.I have found Dakarian. I am not giving him up for Mephansteras. That would be scummy. That is what he is urging me to do.
So, he is urging me to be scummy, and voting me because I'm not obeying him. Furthermore, like I said, I only believe that Meph will be scum if Dakarian is scum. And I shouldn't base decisions on such relations until people flip, by his own words, in this thread (I can locate them if you so desire.)
Again, he is urging me to be scummy by following this wrong derivation.
I can't be the only one seeing this.
If you have a problem with my arguments, press me and question me on them.
If you do not, but still have questions, point them at dakarian, and they might be answered.
If you do not have a problem with my arguments, nor unsettled questions on the issue, then vote dakarian.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 04, 2009, 01:38:35 am
@Dakarian: Scum, as I think you are scum. I'm taking his forensics with a grain of salt as they couldn't answer Leafsnail and (anti)millers/godfathers are always possible. (And, well, plain ol' scum lying.) The throwing self on lynch block is rather suspect too.As said there.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 04, 2009, 01:39:55 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 04, 2009, 01:42:06 am
"@Dakarian: Scum, as I think you are scum." = "I think that, if dakarian is scum, then meph is scum".
Post by: Cheeetar on December 04, 2009, 01:43:42 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 04, 2009, 01:48:10 am
But, if Dakarian is NOT scum, then I have very little argument against mephansteras right now.
So, I must go for Dakarian first, because I think he is scum, and my argument on him is primarily on his behavior.
You kill the scum before you follow the causal links from them to other scum, or you're shooting your argument in the foot, because who you think is scum may not be.
Post by: dakarian on December 04, 2009, 01:57:03 am
In fact, what DO YOU have to mark Meph as scum, considering you brought up that an Anti-miller would cause Meph to misread me?
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 04, 2009, 02:11:46 am
Failed logic.Failed reading.Quote from: dakarianIf I'm town it tells NOTHING of Mephs alignment since he can be honest town or scum with a fakeclaim (very easy to fake who kills who when you already know who is and is not scum).if you're scum, he's scum(town would not lie to protect you), and if he's not scum, you're not scum.
But if he's scum, it means nothing on your alignment...but I'd be fine with that case because hey, lynched scum.
Similarly, if you're town, it means nothing on his alignment.
We'll cross that bridge when we come to it, is what I'm saying, contrary to your urging me to vote him.
If you flip
If you flip
if you flip town (least likely in my eyes) then his investigation is also null, simply because forensics is like weak cop and scum usually get all the information they need to claim either. so, the hunt goes on.
ppe: realized third party dakflips do nothing to argument, slotted them in
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 04, 2009, 02:13:05 am
Post by: Mr.Person on December 04, 2009, 02:26:18 am
FoS to anybody who voted Meph to make Dakarian a confirmed townie (Yes, that includes me. I am in fact FoSing myself. I took the vote off, however. I also will not be repeating that mistake. At the time, I forgot to check if this was a PM game or not, so I guess I assumed it was. Reading is tech.)
Post by: dakarian on December 04, 2009, 02:50:00 am
First off, those who I see as scum enough to be lynched.
CobaltKobold: pushing this attempt to lynch to the point of flexing defenitions, using argument points she doesn't believe in just to 'spite' her attacker, and for overall lack of care of how her argument looks, so long as her argument gets me killed.
Mr.Person: No, I did not forget this one. Lying about his willingness to hammer, attempting to back off from said willingness, then first becoming defense and, once poked about it, becomes aggressive with very strong claims backed by misremembered information and poor assumptions.
People in need of more pressure:
Meph: Attempting to confirm me is great, but it can still read as a ballsy bluff. He's a traditional Sideliner, which scum love to hang out in.
Eduren, Org, RedWarrior: when you forget that they are even playing, you know they havn't been in your eyesight well enough.
People in need of a Scan:
Vector, Toony: Not much scrutiny has fallen them (except for the Neruz/Toony issue which turned meh fast).
Cheeetar: He may have cracked recently, but a scan will be needed to see just how well he cracked and to what alignment. If he hasn't cracked, more pressure will be needed.
People who have not shown much against them
SirBayer: Newtells up the wazzo means reading him without meta is a mess.
Web: If he's scum, the tells will have to show later. I have not seen many after constant fights with him.
People who need to be replaced.
Rash and Shadowdump
And with that, I've given what I have left to offer. I'll answer any questions anyone has, but I've now said all I have. I don't believe there's much more that we can gain from this day. Unless someone can come in to prove me wrong about that, its time to get into a form of agreement.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 04, 2009, 03:02:58 am
Quote from: unofficial votecount. use at own risk
8 to lynch
Dakarian[2]: Rashilul, , CobaltKobold,
CobaltKobold[5] : Vector, Webadict, SirBayer, Dakarian, Cheeetar,
Mephansteras[4]: Org, Mephansteras, RedWarrior0, Eduren,
Webadict[1]:ToonyMan
Cheeetar[1]:Mr.Person
Still alive: SirBayer, Cheeetar, Dakarian, SHAD0Wdump (INACTIVE, REPLACEMENT NEEDED), Vector, Mr.Person, Mephansteras, Eduren, ToonyMan, Webadict, Org, CobaltKobold, Rashilul, RedWarrior0
Post by: Cheeetar on December 04, 2009, 03:05:38 am
Guys, Cheeetar just used a heaping helping of bullshit. He doesn't want to vote CobaltKobold (who he thinks is scum) and instead votes Mephansteras (who he thinks is town). This is as anti-town as it gets. This is not a confirmed townie making game, this is not a kiss Dakarian's ass game, this a lynch the scum game. Cheeetar doesn't want to play the lynch the scum game. He wants to play the scum game. Therefore, I'll unvote Mephansteras and vote Cheeetar.I am actually voting Cobalt at the moment. You haven't read the recent posts, have you? I unvoted Cobalt because he wasn't going to get lynched, so I thought I would instead get a confirmed townie by lynching an unconfirmed one, who if was lieing was scum. I'm not going to waste my vote and draw out the day for no reason. I re-voted Cobalt because with Dakarians new evidence of his scumminess, there is a chance people are going to lynch him.
FoS to anybody who voted Meph to make Dakarian a confirmed townie (Yes, that includes me. I am in fact FoSing myself. I took the vote off, however. I also will not be repeating that mistake. At the time, I forgot to check if this was a PM game or not, so I guess I assumed it was. Reading is tech.)
Post by: Mr.Person on December 04, 2009, 03:11:00 am
Guys, Cheeetar just used a heaping helping of bullshit. He doesn't want to vote CobaltKobold (who he thinks is scum) and instead votes Mephansteras (who he thinks is town). This is as anti-town as it gets. This is not a confirmed townie making game, this is not a kiss Dakarian's ass game, this a lynch the scum game. Cheeetar doesn't want to play the lynch the scum game. He wants to play the scum game. Therefore, I'll unvote Mephansteras and vote Cheeetar.I am actually voting Cobalt at the moment. You haven't read the recent posts, have you? I unvoted Cobalt because he wasn't going to get lynched, so I thought I would instead get a confirmed townie by lynching an unconfirmed one, who if was lieing was scum. I'm not going to waste my vote and draw out the day for no reason. I re-voted Cobalt because with Dakarians new evidence of his scumminess, there is a chance people are going to lynch him.
FoS to anybody who voted Meph to make Dakarian a confirmed townie (Yes, that includes me. I am in fact FoSing myself. I took the vote off, however. I also will not be repeating that mistake. At the time, I forgot to check if this was a PM game or not, so I guess I assumed it was. Reading is tech.)
When you said that statement, you weren't voting him. It doesn't matter who else has voted whom, if you think a player is scum, you vote them. Instead of voting who was scum, you voted somebody else. I can't say much for the plan itself, but you faltly said you though CobaltKobold was scum, BUT YOU DIDN'T VOTE HIM! Not voting who you think is scum is, well, scummy. Sure, you voted him later, but at the time, you hadn't.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 04, 2009, 03:16:49 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 04, 2009, 03:23:29 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 04, 2009, 03:54:05 am
Dakarian [2]: Rashilul, CobaltKobold
CobaltKobold [5]: Vector, Webadict, SirBayer, Dakarian, Cheeetar
Mephansteras [4]: Org, Mephansteras, RedWarrior0, Eduren
Webadict [1]: ToonyMan
Cheeetar [1]: Mr.Person
Still alive: SirBayer, Cheeetar, Dakarian, SHAD0Wdump (INACTIVE, REPLACEMENT NEEDED), Vector, Mr.Person, Mephansteras, Eduren, ToonyMan, Webadict, Org, CobaltKobold, Rashilul, RedWarrior0
Post by: Mr.Person on December 04, 2009, 01:35:25 pm
If I had remained voting for him when people thought he wasn't scum, I would be wasting my vote and delaying the game. I thought Cobalt was scum, but I also believed lynching Meph would prove Dak as a townie and make his scumhunting trustable, which would be a great asset to the town. I could choose between remaining on Cobalt, while attention was elsewhere, or actually USING my vote to assist in lynching Meph, thereby giving the town a confirmed townie.
For the last fucking time, this is not a "confirmed townie making game", this is a "lynch the scum" game. Townies want to lynch scum. You did something else. You must be scum.
I don't care if you thought your vote would be wasted. It would NOT be wasted. Nobody's vote is wasted, ever. I'm voting you now because you're scum. Do I care that nobody else is voting you? No. Do I want them to vote you? Yes.
If you're not going to go lynch scum, what's the point of even playing?
Post by: ToonyMan on December 04, 2009, 02:50:24 pm
They're scum, 100%. No going back.
@Cheeetar:
I said CobaltKobold was scum, but that doesn't mean I couldn't switch, you tried to take advantage of that fact and tried to make me lynch Cobalt, but your try had no try left. Cheeetar and Webadict however, I WILL NOT SWITCH. They are being obvscum.
Post by: webadict on December 04, 2009, 02:52:14 pm
It's Cheeetar and Webadict.Well, you're at least 50% wrong.
They're scum, 100%. No going back.
@Cheeetar:
I said CobaltKobold was scum, but that doesn't mean I couldn't switch, you tried to take advantage of that fact and tried to make me lynch Cobalt, but your try had no try left. Cheeetar and Webadict however, I WILL NOT SWITCH. They are being obvscum.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 04, 2009, 02:53:05 pm
Post by: webadict on December 04, 2009, 04:17:41 pm
That's a majority man.Thanks for saying you're majorly wrong.
Post by: Mephansteras on December 04, 2009, 04:25:48 pm
Org, RedWarrior0, and Eduren. What's your opinion of CobaltKobold?
Post by: ToonyMan on December 04, 2009, 04:32:00 pm
That's a majority man.Thanks for saying you're majorly wrong.
Majority =/= Majorly
Post by: Eduren on December 04, 2009, 04:51:17 pm
I am actually voting Cobalt at the moment. You haven't read the recent posts, have you? I unvoted Cobalt because he wasn't going to get lynched, so I thought I would instead get a confirmed townie by lynching an unconfirmed one, who if was lieing was scum. I'm not going to waste my vote and draw out the day for no reason. I re-voted Cobalt because with Dakarians new evidence of his scumminess, there is a chance people are going to lynch him.
If I had remained voting for him when people thought he wasn't scum, I would be wasting my vote and delaying the game. I thought Cobalt was scum, but I also believed lynching Meph would prove Dak as a townie and make his scumhunting trustable, which would be a great asset to the town. I could choose between remaining on Cobalt, while attention was elsewhere, or actually USING my vote to assist in lynching Meph, thereby giving the town a confirmed townie.
You are way to concerned with whether it's possible to finish a bandwagon. You have been lynchhunting, NOT scumhunting. If you were scumhunting, you would be pushing for the lynch of CK and asking him questions, stating reasons that he is scummy, etc. Since you are doing none of that, you are bandwagoning and parroting others' suspicions.
So tell me, why is CK scummy to you? (In your own words. Do not quote dakarian and say "What he said")
Post by: Org on December 04, 2009, 05:10:17 pm
All right, since that plan seems to have collapsed I'll unvote Mephansteras and move my vote back to CobaltKobold. No point in giving us another stalemate.Im not too sure, he does seem maybe a little scummish, but I kinda still think you are scum
Org, RedWarrior0, and Eduren. What's your opinion of CobaltKobold?
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 04, 2009, 06:01:09 pm
Dakarian [2]: Rashilul, CobaltKobold
CobaltKobold [6]: Vector, Webadict, SirBayer, Dakarian, Cheeetar, Mephansteras
Mephansteras [2]: Org, RedWarrior0
Webadict [1]: ToonyMan
Cheeetar [2]: Mr.Person, Eduren
Still alive: SirBayer, Cheeetar, Dakarian, SHAD0Wdump (INACTIVE, REPLACEMENT NEEDED), Vector, Mr.Person, Mephansteras, Eduren, ToonyMan, Webadict, Org, CobaltKobold, Rashilul, RedWarrior0
Post by: Cheeetar on December 04, 2009, 08:00:58 pm
Woah there Cheetar, what are you doing?Follow this quote, and see the pages behind it as well to see why I think Cobalt is scummy. He's making up bullshit reasons to vote for people.I am actually voting Cobalt at the moment. You haven't read the recent posts, have you? I unvoted Cobalt because he wasn't going to get lynched, so I thought I would instead get a confirmed townie by lynching an unconfirmed one, who if was lieing was scum. I'm not going to waste my vote and draw out the day for no reason. I re-voted Cobalt because with Dakarians new evidence of his scumminess, there is a chance people are going to lynch him.If I had remained voting for him when people thought he wasn't scum, I would be wasting my vote and delaying the game. I thought Cobalt was scum, but I also believed lynching Meph would prove Dak as a townie and make his scumhunting trustable, which would be a great asset to the town. I could choose between remaining on Cobalt, while attention was elsewhere, or actually USING my vote to assist in lynching Meph, thereby giving the town a confirmed townie.
You are way to concerned with whether it's possible to finish a bandwagon. You have been lynchhunting, NOT scumhunting. If you were scumhunting, you would be pushing for the lynch of CK and asking him questions, stating reasons that he is scummy, etc. Since you are doing none of that, you are bandwagoning and parroting others' suspicions.
So tell me, why is CK scummy to you? (In your own words. Do not quote dakarian and say "What he said")
Spoiler: Quote (click to show/hide)
It's Cheeetar and Webadict.If you aren't scum, I will lose all respect I had for the Toony tunnel. Also: Did you switch your thinking on Cobalt being scum before Cobalt could be lynched, or after?
They're scum, 100%. No going back.
@Cheeetar:
I said CobaltKobold was scum, but that doesn't mean I couldn't switch, you tried to take advantage of that fact and tried to make me lynch Cobalt, but your try had no try left. Cheeetar and Webadict however, I WILL NOT SWITCH. They are being obvscum.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 04, 2009, 08:04:22 pm
You changed my mind.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 04, 2009, 08:06:01 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on December 04, 2009, 08:09:29 pm
I have to tell you again.
I'm going to go insaner.
I'm going insaner.
Insaner.
Insaner.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 04, 2009, 08:11:00 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on December 04, 2009, 08:17:48 pm
Why? I was noting how suspicious it was that you were active when Cobalt could be lynched, but you chose not to lynch him despite believing he was scum.#1:
It's quite simple really. I lynch CobaltKobld, therefore killing off someone that could hurt you(scum) AND you get a nice target(me) for tomorrow.
#2:
I would hammer CobaltKobold, then you have a target for the next day.
Netting two town if you get me lynched the next day. Of course, this is old news.
#3:
That's not at all what I'm saying. Let me explain this again again.
1. All of us were at 1-L for Cobalt in this mafia game.
2. Cheeetar tells ToonyMan to lynch Cobalt because ToonyMan said he was scum earlier.
3. ToonyMan says no.
4. Cheeetar asks why.
5. ToonyMan says Cheeetar wants to use ToonyMan as a way to lynch CobaltKobold(town). Cheeetar(scum) THEN can try to get ToonyMan(town) lynched tomorrow ON THE NEXT DAY. NEXT DAY NEXT DAY.
Why in the world can you not understand this?!
You are telling me to lynch a townie, you pop out of nowhere quote what I said early 'cause you know my "tunnelvision" yaddha yaddha so you hoped you could use that against me, IT DIDN'T WORK.
#4:
I said CobaltKobold was scum, but that doesn't mean I couldn't switch, you tried to take advantage of that fact and tried to make me lynch Cobalt, but your try had no try left. Cheeetar and Webadict however, I WILL NOT SWITCH. They are being obvscum.
Ok, was it my post telling you to vote for him what stopped you, or my posts of me voting for him?
You telling me to vote him. Do you understand now? You've been asking me again and again this whole week and I'm getting tired.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on December 04, 2009, 08:18:31 pm
webadict is simply hoping no one notices that he hasn't specified which. His comment of "at least 50%" doesn't say WHICH 50%. Also, the Pandarsenic Rule of Webadict Scumminess is in effect.It's Cheeetar and Webadict.Well, you're at least 50% wrong.
They're scum, 100%. No going back.
@Cheeetar:
I said CobaltKobold was scum, but that doesn't mean I couldn't switch, you tried to take advantage of that fact and tried to make me lynch Cobalt, but your try had no try left. Cheeetar and Webadict however, I WILL NOT SWITCH. They are being obvscum.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 04, 2009, 08:18:46 pm
Post by: webadict on December 04, 2009, 08:32:33 pm
Unvote MephI thought it was implied I was talking about myself [Especially when I say AT LEAST]... I'm glad we have people that take things the wrong way though.webadict is simply hoping no one notices that he hasn't specified which. His comment of "at least 50%" doesn't say WHICH 50%. Also, the Pandarsenic Rule of Webadict Scumminess is in effect.It's Cheeetar and Webadict.Well, you're at least 50% wrong.
They're scum, 100%. No going back.
@Cheeetar:
I said CobaltKobold was scum, but that doesn't mean I couldn't switch, you tried to take advantage of that fact and tried to make me lynch Cobalt, but your try had no try left. Cheeetar and Webadict however, I WILL NOT SWITCH. They are being obvscum.
Anyhow, let's get back to lynching CobaltKobold, shall we?
Post by: RedWarrior0 on December 04, 2009, 08:36:38 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on December 04, 2009, 08:40:38 pm
This, this is good. HOWEVER: I am trying to lynch scum. I believe Cobalt is scum. Why is telling other people (WHO HAVE SAID THEY BELIEVE COBALT IS SCUM) to lynch him scummy? And why did you not vote Cobalt BEFORE my post, seeing as you were active then?Why? I was noting how suspicious it was that you were active when Cobalt could be lynched, but you chose not to lynch him despite believing he was scum.#3:
That's not at all what I'm saying. Let me explain this again again.
1. All of us were at 1-L for Cobalt in this mafia game.
2. Cheeetar tells ToonyMan to lynch Cobalt because ToonyMan said he was scum earlier.
3. ToonyMan says no.
4. Cheeetar asks why.
5. ToonyMan says Cheeetar wants to use ToonyMan as a way to lynch CobaltKobold(town). Cheeetar(scum) THEN can try to get ToonyMan(town) lynched tomorrow ON THE NEXT DAY. NEXT DAY NEXT DAY.
Why in the world can you not understand this?!
You are telling me to lynch a townie, you pop out of nowhere quote what I said early 'cause you know my "tunnelvision" yaddha yaddha so you hoped you could use that against me, IT DIDN'T WORK.
I only told you to vote him once or twice, the others were asking why you were voting me after I questioned you.Ok, was it my post telling you to vote for him what stopped you, or my posts of me voting for him?
You telling me to vote him. Do you understand now? You've been asking me again and again this whole week and I'm getting tired.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 04, 2009, 08:57:53 pm
This, this is good. HOWEVER: I am trying to lynch scum. I believe Cobalt is scum. Why is telling other people (WHO HAVE SAID THEY BELIEVE COBALT IS SCUM) to lynch him scummy? And why did you not vote Cobalt BEFORE my post, seeing as you were active then?Why? I was noting how suspicious it was that you were active when Cobalt could be lynched, but you chose not to lynch him despite believing he was scum.#3:
That's not at all what I'm saying. Let me explain this again again.
1. All of us were at 1-L for Cobalt in this mafia game.
2. Cheeetar tells ToonyMan to lynch Cobalt because ToonyMan said he was scum earlier.
3. ToonyMan says no.
4. Cheeetar asks why.
5. ToonyMan says Cheeetar wants to use ToonyMan as a way to lynch CobaltKobold(town). Cheeetar(scum) THEN can try to get ToonyMan(town) lynched tomorrow ON THE NEXT DAY. NEXT DAY NEXT DAY.
Why in the world can you not understand this?!
You are telling me to lynch a townie, you pop out of nowhere quote what I said early 'cause you know my "tunnelvision" yaddha yaddha so you hoped you could use that against me, IT DIDN'T WORK.I only told you to vote him once or twice, the others were asking why you were voting me after I questioned you.Ok, was it my post telling you to vote for him what stopped you, or my posts of me voting for him?
You telling me to vote him. Do you understand now? You've been asking me again and again this whole week and I'm getting tired.
I didn't mean you telling me to vote him, I meant you questioning me why I didn't.
Cheeetar, you're scummy because...
#2:
I would hammer CobaltKobold, then you have a target for the next day.
Netting two town if you get me lynched the next day.
I didn't vote CobaltKobold earlier because...
I just didn't, I was focused on Dakarian, I only listed Cobalt cause. I said earlier he was last on my scum list anyway. This doesn't make him autoscum, he was last on my list and wasn't my main target AT ALL. PEOPLE CHANGE. YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE ME LYNCH HER. UNDERSTAND UNDERSTAND.
Unvote. Vote Cheeetar. Webadict(scum) tomorrow.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 04, 2009, 09:05:49 pm
By the way, me telling you to hammer Cobalt and then going after you for hammering a townie the day after would be INCREDISTUPID.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 04, 2009, 09:14:48 pm
So, Cobalt was on your scum list, but you were uncertain about her? You chose not to lynch her so you could analyse the situation more?
TOONYMAN ONLY TUNNEL VISIONS, ONCE HE MAKES HIS LIST IT IS SET IN STONE
Except for you and Webadict, you're obvscum. Scum list does not make Permscum list, get over it dude.
By the way, me telling you to hammer Cobalt and then going after you for hammering a townie the day after would be INCREDISTUPID.
Too bad you did.
Post by: dakarian on December 04, 2009, 09:36:28 pm
Mr.Person - Has questioned Cobalt (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg900403#msg900403) but made no statement about whether Cobalt is scum or not. believes Cheeetar is scum
Eduren - has not commented on Cobalt- believe's cheeetar is scum
ToonyMan - believes Cobalt is town and Web/Cheeetar are scum
Org - cobalt is a 'little scummish', believes Meph is scum,
RedWarrior0 - has made no comment on Cobalt, Believes web is scum
Rashilul - Needs to be removed
SHAD0Wdump - needs to be replaced
The point: only one of them has explained why they are not voting for Cobalt (Toonyman). Mr.Person has shown that he agrees with some of my argument against Cobalt but has not stated whether he feels it was an act of Scum or Town. Org has stated that he feels Cobalt is 'scumish' but not scum or town. Everyone else has effectively ignored the bandwagon alltogether.
It would be understandable if all of them felt that there is not enough proof to lynch Cobalt or else see Cobalt as fully town. Given that 4 of them have avoided the issue or have gone wishywashy, I'd like something a little stronger than 'ignore and hope the situation handles itself'.
FoSes on Mr.Person, Org, Eduren, and RedWarrior0 until they actually state how they actually feel about Cobalt being lynched.. and with a firm "(She should/She should NOT) be lynched". If you do believe she is scummy, you'll need to explain why your vote isn't on her yet.
If everyone believes that she shouldn't be lynched, then we'll have a stalemate, but at least we'll know we actually have one and not just a bunch of bystanders.
Post by: dakarian on December 04, 2009, 09:37:40 pm
Post by: Org on December 04, 2009, 09:38:14 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on December 04, 2009, 09:38:40 pm
Here, a timeline:
Cobalt is at L-1
You are active. You do not vote her, despite previously saying you believed she was scum and not saying anything about changing your mind.
I ask why you do not vote her.
'CHEEETAR IS SCUM GUYS'
About the whole 'TOONY ONLY TUNNEL VISIONS' thing, I was never thinking about that. I was wondering why you weren't voting someone you believed to be scum, and had said you believed to be scum. Yes, lists can change. But you did not say your list had changed. I was under the impression you still believed Cobalt was scum. And, as you have said, you did still believe Cobalt was scum, until I asked why you were not voting Cobalt because you believed she was scum.
My previous post was ASKING if you were uncertain. Were you uncertain about Cobalts scumminess? Was this the reason you chose not to vote to lynch her? I am talking about the time before you decided I was scummy, by the way.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 04, 2009, 09:39:41 pm
Post by: dakarian on December 04, 2009, 09:41:00 pm
I feel indiferent about the lynch, as he seems more scum than a townie, but I still am not sure
Very Passive.
What makes her look 'more scummy than town, but not quite actual scum' to you?
Post by: Org on December 04, 2009, 09:41:53 pm
A feeling. :3I feel indiferent about the lynch, as he seems more scum than a townie, but I still am not sure
Very Passive.
What makes her look 'more scummy than town, but not quite actual scum' to you?
Post by: dakarian on December 04, 2009, 09:44:08 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on December 04, 2009, 09:44:55 pm
Yes I was uncertain with Cobalt's scumminess. My scum list goes by what I feel of them. Usually if someone is above/equal 50% (majority) then they go on. Cobalt was about a 60%. I don't want to make rash decision. I was wrong to hammer Neruz, I wasn't going to do it again without Cobalt being there. However, you showed up and proved quite well that you're scum.
Post by: Org on December 04, 2009, 09:45:22 pm
Post by: dakarian on December 04, 2009, 09:47:27 pm
Now focus on the question.
Post by: Org on December 04, 2009, 09:48:22 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on December 04, 2009, 09:48:55 pm
Post by: Org on December 04, 2009, 09:50:08 pm
It's a freakin' null tell anyway. Org is Org after all.THAT IZ ROIGHT BROTHER COMRADE SCUM COMRADE COMMY
Post by: dakarian on December 04, 2009, 09:52:44 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on December 04, 2009, 10:08:32 pm
I still am of the firm belief that webadict is scum.
Post by: dakarian on December 04, 2009, 10:50:55 pm
1. A scan of those keeping to the side lines. There's actually been a good bit of that once the WOTs fell.
2. Look at each person individually (not as in, if "so and so is scum/town then"). In this case, read my posts and Cobalt's posts, then decide on an individual basis which you believe is scum or town. If one dies, keep your standing on the other.
This one helps against many situations, including town on town wars and scum on scum mock battles.
If you believe one or both are scum, then help to finish the lynch so the town can move forward. If you believe both are town then don't just sit there, work to disrupt the bandwagon completely. Until the situation is solved, the town remains 'stuck'.
Thus INDIVIDUALLY, what do you feel about me and Cobalt? Is one of us scum? Both of us? Is it a Town on Town war?
The first is being done. However, with ev
Post by: ToonyMan on December 04, 2009, 10:52:11 pm
Post by: dakarian on December 04, 2009, 10:56:08 pm
Post by: Org on December 04, 2009, 11:01:53 pm
I think Dakarian was just day-killed.I dont even
Post by: webadict on December 04, 2009, 11:07:53 pm
I think we shouldn't lynch CK. Why? Because, as was stated by you or one of the ICs in one of the recent Beginner Mafias, these arguments take up the whole focus of the town. We lynch CK, if she flips town, we lynch you tomorrow, and you might flip townYes, and we have yet another person who'd be wrong about my alignment.
I still am of the firm belief that webadict is scum.
And then the response of encouraging town to bandwagon? I think Pandar has a love of Jesters.Because the Day is going only so far. Likely, it's only town participating (Sure, a scum will probably throw in a comment or two.)
Likely, we should lynch eduren, but the drastic wagon switch that I'll incur will only prove that everyone wants to end the Day on whatever evidence springs forth in front of them.
So, how about we No Lynch right now? We're at 13 and this Day is killing me, Pandarsenic, and everyone else. So, end it the only way we know how:
Might as well. We've heard enough from everyone.
Post by: dakarian on December 04, 2009, 11:16:35 pm
All that'll mean is that the scum will kill off someone who isn't deeply suspect. The townies we worry about will all remain to lock us into yet another situation like this.
If we're going to just give up and waste this day, we might as well make it a little productive and remove one of the two inactives. Better that than NL.
Best act, though, is to at least find out how the final two people feel since it's sounding like RedWarrior thinks Cobalt is town. If Mr.Person or Eduren feel that Cobalt is town then we don't have enough people to hammer her and, thus, there's not much choice but to choose someone else.
Post by: Mr.Person on December 04, 2009, 11:31:48 pm
Post by: webadict on December 04, 2009, 11:35:02 pm
And what good with that do!?14 People.
All that'll mean is that the scum will kill off someone who isn't deeply suspect. The townies we worry about will all remain to lock us into yet another situation like this.
If we're going to just give up and waste this day, we might as well make it a little productive and remove one of the two inactives. Better that than NL.
Best act, though, is to at least find out how the final two people feel since it's sounding like RedWarrior thinks Cobalt is town. If Mr.Person or Eduren feel that Cobalt is town then we don't have enough people to hammer her and, thus, there's not much choice but to choose someone else.
Post by: dakarian on December 04, 2009, 11:51:59 pm
14 people. 8 to lynch.
6 people are voting for Cobalt who, of course, won't self vote
7 people left, 2 needed to lynch
Shadow and Rash are inactive essentually
5 left, 2 needed to lynch
Toonyman and RedWarrior insinuate that they believe she's town. Org is abstaining
2 left, 2 needed to lynch
All that's left is Mr.Person and Eduren. If either say they won't vote and no one changes their mind then there won't be a majority on Cobalt.
Post by: dakarian on December 04, 2009, 11:54:53 pm
Me and Cobalt are basically done WOTing each other. We've said MORE than we have to say to each other.
If you are still not fully sure she's scum then you'll need to present something for her to comment on. If you are sure she's scum then why are you giving up one scum that's about to be hammered for another?
Post by: webadict on December 05, 2009, 12:09:12 am
Instead of, say, those lurkers/inactives, who would participate?
Post by: Mr.Person on December 05, 2009, 12:10:56 am
Post by: dakarian on December 05, 2009, 12:21:31 am
Both, of course, suck as options. NL is about as bad as we can do.
@Mr.Person
Well NOW that you asked her about it she can respond. Once she has, if you're still thinking "CK or Web" I'd really like to hear the theory of why its one or the other and what's currently making it unclear as to which it is.
Post by: Mr.Person on December 05, 2009, 12:29:52 am
Post by: dakarian on December 05, 2009, 12:31:16 am
Post by: Mr.Person on December 05, 2009, 12:35:52 am
Very well then.. how does the scumminess of me and Meph determine the scumminess of Cobalt and Web?
If you and Meph take up 2 slots of scum and Cheeetar takes up another, that only leaves one last slot (assuming 4 scum, which I have no idea why I'm assuming 4 scum. Now that I think about it, it could easily be 5 scum).
Now, if you and Meph are town, well, then I suppose both Web AND CK could be scum. I haven't thought this part out, really. For now, I'm good with a Cheeetar lynch and would be content with a CK lynch. I'd rather Cheeetar gets lynched since I'm more sure of him. Not scumhunting=scum.
Post by: dakarian on December 05, 2009, 12:46:41 am
So now we're just waiting on Cobalt's reply to Mr.Person and Eduren's reply to my FoS.
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 05, 2009, 12:50:44 am
I'm on the verge of modkilling both Rash and SHAD0Wdump out of frustration, but you can't just instantly kill two people in a non-rules-specified way and NOT mess things up, so I can't (even though I REALLY want to).
Post by: Cheeetar on December 05, 2009, 03:20:48 am
@Cheeetar:
Yes I was uncertain with Cobalt's scumminess. My scum list goes by what I feel of them. Usually if someone is above/equal 50% (majority) then they go on. Cobalt was about a 60%. I don't want to make rash decision. I was wrong to hammer Neruz, I wasn't going to do it again without Cobalt being there. However, you showed up and proved quite well that you're scum.
Next time, you might want to use a FoS instead of a scum list. A list of scum seems to say 'these guys are totally scum' as opposed to 'these guys are suspicious'.
Post by: webadict on December 05, 2009, 03:22:24 am
... So... isn't it... ya know... less scummy to say someone is scum instead of saying they're suspicious?@Cheeetar:
Yes I was uncertain with Cobalt's scumminess. My scum list goes by what I feel of them. Usually if someone is above/equal 50% (majority) then they go on. Cobalt was about a 60%. I don't want to make rash decision. I was wrong to hammer Neruz, I wasn't going to do it again without Cobalt being there. However, you showed up and proved quite well that you're scum.
Next time, you might want to use a FoS instead of a scum list. A list of scum seems to say 'these guys are totally scum' as opposed to 'these guys are suspicious'.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 05, 2009, 05:54:34 am
Post by: Eduren on December 05, 2009, 06:13:01 am
So here it is. My understanding of the matter is that we are lynching CK for bad logic and hypocritical arguments. Now, I am not willing to lynch on that alone, no matter how tired I am of today.
If however, you have better evidence than that, I will reconsider. But for now, she does not get my vote.
Post by: Eduren on December 05, 2009, 06:34:22 am
Since I am horrible at synthesizing the information from long, draw-out, he-said-she-said, arguments, I decide to find something more concrete. So I looked through Day 1 to try and find a way to link Leafsnail to CK. And the thing is, they completely avoided each other. Not a single mention of the other person.
And while looking through the early Day 2, I found these (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg859141#msg859141) posts (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg859179#msg859179), that could possibly be misdirecting the town, or just messing with them.
I know that this isn't much and that it shouldn't be highly considered to to confirmation bias, so I am still undecided and would like a few words from others on the matter.
Post by: dakarian on December 05, 2009, 06:55:14 am
The hypocritical arguments aren't just hypocritical, they are to the point of mockary and seeking reputation destruction. She uses argument points I hold value to (but she, admitedly doesn't agree to) and even uses my posting style not because she find merit in it but because of the irony of having me lynched due to it. Even if I die from it, she can easily turn around and show just how poorly my arguments work (since she used it and got a townie killed) thus negating everything I've written in the past.
She has no strong case. She doesn't consider my attack style as useful enough to use. She barely even tries to defend herself (she didn't even bother to answer the original argument I had until I posted it 3 times and had a gallon full of her attacking me). All she does is throw attack after attack after attack filled with points well flexed to suit her purpose and mockaries of my posting style to discredit me. She's not scumhunting. She's just getting me killed.
I'm calling her scum because the method is not only just a smokescreen to cover herself but also a means to ensure it won't backfire on her later on. After all, I was already highly suspicious and, as she had proven, my methods don't work since he died from it.
That's the argument against her.
@fakeedit
Oh, I remember that now. That was a batch of meh when she tried to demonstrate that leafsnail was probably killed and not converted (which means a superkill/doublekiller/two vigs that no one tried to claim AND stopping the NK) then declared me scum for it. Never did follow back and agree afterwards.
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 05, 2009, 07:02:03 am
Dakarian [2]: Rashilul, CobaltKobold
CobaltKobold [6]: Vector, Webadict, SirBayer, Dakarian, Cheeetar, Mephansteras
Mephansteras [1]: Org
Webadict [2]: ToonyMan, RedWarrior0
Cheeetar [2]: Mr.Person, Eduren
Still alive: SirBayer, Cheeetar, Dakarian, SHAD0Wdump (INACTIVE, REPLACEMENT NEEDED), Vector, Mr.Person, Mephansteras, Eduren, ToonyMan, Webadict, Org, CobaltKobold, Rashilul, RedWarrior0
Toony did not unvote properly. Again. Learn your lesson.
Webadict did the same.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 05, 2009, 11:10:34 am
Unvote Webadict.
Vote Cheeetar.
Post by: Mephansteras on December 05, 2009, 11:34:45 am
So... instead of No Lynching, you want me to lynch someone who's likely to be town?
Instead of, say, those lurkers/inactives, who would participate?
I'd rather lynch Cobalt, since I think she's scum. If not, though, I'd rather we lynch me instead of, say, Rash or shadow, since we're not going to really learn much that lynch. My lynch gives us a confirmed townie with lots of posts that can be reviewed and analyzed who can also be protected. Lynching either of those two just gives us a 1/14 chance of lynching scum, with very little information gained afterwards since they didn't do anything major all game.
I'm on the side that no lynching is the worst option, since all we're going to do is give the scum a free kill that probably won't tell us anything at all.
Post by: webadict on December 05, 2009, 11:58:40 am
I hate lurkers!
Post by: dakarian on December 05, 2009, 12:27:01 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 05, 2009, 02:13:03 pm
That is, it was not talking about your first(RVS) post. It was talking about posts and events after that (which were during RVS). This is supported by the format of the other synopses-No. The first thing after the quote is talking about the quote. After the linebreak/paragraph separator is describing non-quoted things in between the quotes.Bloodthirstiness, no. Lynch-anyone-period-bandwagon,yes.
Ok.. you are saying I'm trying to bandwagon and lynch anyone... in RVS..
"lynch anyone period" in..RVS.
This isn't a small thing to me. This is an example of your entire argument. You take any statement, then mold and twist it into any form of scumtell you wish it to be.
I mean you're taking a RANDOM VOTE, the FIRST post I've made in the game, the first vote I've made when I was the first voter on Mr.Person and you made a serious accusation out of it!
I'm calling 'Tunnelvision' now. You just don't care anymore. You just want me lynched and looking for any means to do it.
Quote from: Cobalt's Analysis of Webadict
[a quote]Old webadict sum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg855250#msg855250for instance or
Web gets up to 5votes, aaand...Neruz is the one who unvoted, causing the unbandwagon...and flipped town. meh.
Quote from: Cobalt's Analysis of Webadict
[a quote]...translation: No, your townmeta on me is false.
Also, this is as plausible as Mr.Person's "I have a strict anti-WIFOM policy".
Webadict gets to L-1 or 2. Cheeetar attacks...doesn't hammer...EDUREN PARDONS (or claims to). Everyone gets off him...and mysteriously, never come back.
and so forth (webadict's analysis has several instances of this, is why I'm using the examples from his).
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 05, 2009, 02:13:34 pm
No, I don't want to hear more from CK about you, I want to hear more from CK about who ELSE is scum. That's the key question that nobody ever answers. Myself, I'm thinking Cheeetar and either CK or Web and either ToonyMan and Eduren or Dakarian and Meph. That should tell you more than enough about why I'm voting Cheeetar right now.
Looks like I did.
You know what, CobaltKobold is not scumhunting. He's jumping at Dakarian and pulling out stupid stops to get it done. CobaltKobold, assume both Dakarian and Meph are scum. Who ELSE is scum?Assuming both are?
Webadict and Toony are my chief suspects.
I think I'd still like everyone's reactions to dakarian's wifom when he was talking to Webadict about use of the cheat/supercop ability:Quote from: dakarianthe mafia don't seem afraid of it or else they'd kill you already while you were still blocked.
There's also
Conclusions:Vote Dakarian. Appeals to emotion (5), faulty arguments, failed reasoning, hypocrisy (5+? wasn't counting there), and a cherry of a couple thirdvotes...and, something I didn't notice, is, he's pointing out that "no, I'm really the thirdvote" for some wifom!
Toonyman. Toony and is doing a lot of "btw I'm town" and toony's doing a lot of unsupported arguments. Also hammering the lynch when he thought Neruz was town.
WebadictWebadict's doing a lot of mad-lib-attacks (I'm not specifying, find it yourself) allowing people to fill in his attacks, and missing a lot of details, which is not in townweb file. Also, his earlier posts are metaunlike townweb-possibly due to the computer lack thing, as it has fixed, which is one reason he's down here. Has a patent disregard for townlife.
Mephansteras - Lurky, wifom in his selfmeta, and a fair amount of "btw I'm town" things.
Sirbayer is being scummy in a couple ways, but seems more to horse around than anything else.
Rashilul is being a bloody lurker and doing some stupid shit, but...too lurky to read well.
Since those posts, the main changes in my thinking are Cheeetar is looking worse in his bandwagonitude and votejumping, Toony's feeling less scummy (his arguments are a bit more solid recently).
Feel answered, Mr.Person?
Post by: Mr.Person on December 05, 2009, 02:27:49 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 05, 2009, 02:33:44 pm
Twice is coincidence.
Third time, it's enemy action (dakarian).
Post by: Mr.Person on December 05, 2009, 02:37:52 pm
Once is happenstance (Mr.Person).
Twice is coincidence.
Third time, it's enemy action (dakarian).
I don't take that particular stance. Some people forget more often then other people. For instance, I know I forget when people state their suspicions fairly frequently, but other people like Webadict or Dakarian don't forget often at all. And even then, I don't think it says much about scumminess to forget a person stating their suspicions.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 05, 2009, 04:39:38 pm
Cheeetar and Webadict are 100scum in my eyes right now.
Dakarian and Meph....aren't scum anymore. I just don't see it, especially with Webadict's reaction to Meph's plan. Scummy. Althought the fact the I don't want to do Meph's plan is evident. It's not worth it.
Org, Eduren, Rashilul, SHAD0Wdump (I think) are just plain unhelpful right now.
CobaltKobold I can confidently say isn't scum.
Mr.Person hasn't drop a single scumtell this whole game, he's been really good.
RedWarrior has been doing whatever, I don't care right now. Null.
SirBayer....SirBayer....I have a question for thee.
I meant to bring this up early, but forgot about it when I awakened to pages of WOT's.
Only scum makes lists of players?
Back in 1-L for Cobalt you brought this up when I showed my scumlist.
How the hell is listing your suspicions a scumtell?
Post by: Org on December 05, 2009, 04:50:52 pm
So... instead of No Lynching, you want me to lynch someone who's likely to be town?I am participating :0
Instead of, say, those lurkers/inactives, who would participate?
Ive been gone all day! :I
I have nothing to add
Post by: Eduren on December 05, 2009, 05:26:35 pm
Unvote Cheetar
Vote CobaltKoblod
Post by: Mr.Person on December 05, 2009, 05:49:17 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on December 05, 2009, 05:53:54 pm
I'm going to be right, and you all KNOW IT.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 05, 2009, 05:55:48 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 05, 2009, 05:59:59 pm
Fine. As promised, unvote Cheeetar and vote CobaltKoboldLooks like hammer...?
If not, I have something of interest to post, but if so, it would be cheating, so...*waits
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 05, 2009, 09:07:03 pm
Dakarian [2]: Rashilul, CobaltKobold
CobaltKobold [8]: Vector, Webadict, SirBayer, Dakarian, Cheeetar, Mephansteras, Eduren, Mr.Person
Mephansteras [1]: Org
Webadict [1]: RedWarrior0
Cheeetar [1]: ToonyMan
Still alive: SirBayer, Cheeetar, Dakarian, SHAD0Wdump (INACTIVE, REPLACEMENT NEEDED), Vector, Mr.Person, Mephansteras, Eduren, ToonyMan, Webadict,
You surround CobaltKobold, hefting metal baseball bats. She grabs at Mr.Person's bat and yanks it from his hand.
Thief! Protect the hoard from skulking filth!
Vector throws his METAL BASEBALL BAT at CobaltKobold!
The spinning METAL BASEBALL BAT strike CobaltKobold in the head!
It is mangled!
You place CobaltKobold in a whip-trip with a Gabbro Mechanism and an Iron Whip (both base quality) in a 3-deep pool of water. She is flayed alive for the rest of her brief life.
Quote
MAFIA MEMBER. You are a Kobold, otherwise known as SKULKING FILTH. You must have made a wrong turn somewhere, because you're in a Mafia game instead of a Dwarf Fortress, but luckily, you have some allies, it seems. You should do your best to protect them, instead. You have equipment to Protect someone once, and you can act as a Bodyguard, dying in their place, any number of times. The mafia partners are Leafsnail (Envy), [REDACTED], and CobaltKobold (Kobold). You win when it is no longer possible for town to win. The Mafia Chat is at [REDACTED]
Note: If I mention particular names in the flavor, I just pick the last/first voters.
You allow yourselves faint smiles - your first lynch of one of these Mafia Scum! And the hoard has been protected, as well. Perhaps their reign of terror can be stopped after all.
The sun sets very abruptly - funny, you think, it showed no signs of doing so earlier - and you hurry to your beds.
IT IS NOW NIGHT
NIGHT ENDS ON MONDAY AT 11 PM PACIFIC
TRY AGAIN IS NO LONGER IN EFFECT.
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 08, 2009, 08:02:11 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 10, 2009, 03:28:05 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 13, 2009, 07:16:06 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 15, 2009, 02:48:39 am
Quote
Nuclear Rocket Surgeon
You're a Nuclear Rocket Surgeon. As a man of SCIENCE, you are capable of using the "SCIENCE!" action on someone. If they are attacked, you will perform surgery on them, saving their life. If they have a delayed kill going to happen to them, you will cure their cancer (or whatever it is they have). However, if neither of those is true, you will irradiate them, which will make them sick, blocking their action the next night. If you irradiate someone with radiation sickness already, they will die. You win when all scum are dead.
Alas, you still have a task ahead of you.
CAN'T TOUCH THIS RULE IS NOW IN EFFECT.
You also recall seeing Org stare intimidatingly at Webadict, roleblocking him, again.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 15, 2009, 07:21:49 am
Post by: dakarian on December 15, 2009, 10:08:54 am
2. I just realized that song was written by M.C. Hammer... smells like something involved with the Hammer system.
Let's start this off with a bang.
@Everyone
Now to restate my argument against Mr.Person:
First, I present the Scan (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg877508#msg877508)I've done on Mr.Person's work during Day 1 and 2. It shows that, beyond the attack on Zai-which is easy for scum to do since they can hunt third parties easily-he spent his time trying to get Eduren lynched for his role rather than whether he was scum or not. With a very quick poke at me which faded away very quickly, he had little else to do until the end of Day 2.
The bigger mess started Here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg868917#msg868917) when Neruz(town) was at L-1. Mr.Person threatened to Hammer him...tomorrow. When I prodded him, though, he wrote the massive blob of a post a few posts below that link and decided NOT to hammer after all. I call him out on it, but the day ends soon after.
From here, the referenced posts get LONG.
Day 3 begins with this little number (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg875860#msg875860). He claims I'm softballing him by attacking but not voting even though it was at the time when I had my vote on someone I was focusing on to get lynched. He claims I'm lying about being aggressive, even though I've didn't at that point even SAY I was aggressive. Then he then claimed I was never aggressive all game, which later on proves to be a tub full of lies.
He then goes into a defense about how "trying to look town is a null tell", which is meh since townies should be more interested in catching scum than trying to make themselves look good.
My response to that is written here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg876117#msg876117)
His response (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg876476#msg876476)? To claim that I was passive Day 2 (which is half true. I went 'meh' in the second half of it). Then asks the legendary "Who is scum...other than me?"
A question I never like since its a good way to make a person look at someone other than you. It also starts causing you to create scumteams, which are usually full of town rather than scum.
The back and forth continues until we get to here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg877295#msg877295)
The mass of mess and ugliness. I prove it for falsehoods, lies, and misreads in the post afterwards, then display my Scan, which I linked at the start.
After that, he disappears for several days while I get spotlighted-he eventually needs prodding to return.
He returns here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg880646#msg880646), but fails to comment on my Scan, but instead focuses on my defense to his own 'scan'. I respond to it a few posts after (in the 'because I can' spoiler) and remark why he doesn't comment on my own attack.
His response?
Quote
How am I supposed to respond to your scan? It's mostly facts and your opinions.
Considering the scan proves how his only strong attacks have been on third parties-which scum can easily hunt for true- and for non-scum reasons up to the end of Day 2 it's always good to have it confirmed.
The rest of the argument is in the posts pretty much directly following the last linked one, right to my @Everyone
Nothing happens beyond that and the topic moves on until it hits CobaltKobold. Eventually, I turn to attack her, which begins that BIG WOT BATTLE. As for Mr.Person? Soon after my first attack on Cobalt he posts this (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg892690#msg892690):
Quickly joins in on the attack with Cobalt, but with little for a reason that wasn't ripped fully from my post that he quotes.
His next post? He pulls his vote (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg894624#msg894624). Why? To avoid a hammer and attack SirBayer, HARD.
Note that during his vote, he felt that Cobalt was extremely scummy. however, with no explanation or investigation of his own he's pulled away from her. So did he feel that Cobalt was town and wanted to disrupt the bandwagon? Well, no, he never stated. Did he want SirBayer THAT badly? Nope. He didn't follow up on SirBayer or even comment.
Instead, he went for me (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg895623#msg895623)once talk turned to my use of the day kill.
The post includes this little number, after declaring that me not killing Web 'like the town wanted' in Day 1 was anti-town:
Quote
Before anybody says "BUT ANTI-TOWN DON'T MEAN SCUMMY LOL", shut up. Anti-town means AGAINST the town, which means somebody we want to lynch.
Crap Logic is CRAP. Lynches are for scum. Just for scum. You don't lynch someone just because they are anti-town since, in the end, you aren't aiming at scum. Scum LIKE anti-town hunts since it's very easy for them to hunt for them and look 'pro-town' doing it. That's why scum like to lurker hunt or go after bad players. What they don't like is having to actually look for real scum since THAT gets harder to do.
So Cobalt is ignored..not investigated, not deemed possible Town..just ignored. He keeps on me until Meph presents his 'lynch me to prove Dak' theory.
which has this little number:
Quote
Unvote Dakarian and vote Mephansteras, although I feel like I'm walking into a trap, for some reason. Nah, that's just paranoia. This plan should work out well.
Point to not liking that phrase? It smells of trying very hard to act 'unsure'. I mean, townies don't KNOW what's going on so they are paranoid. Thus scum need to show that they are 'paranoid' too.
He later throws a "who else is scum" on Cobalt, though doesn't follow up on that.
Next comes here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg900783#msg900783): where he FoSes everyone that is voting for Meph and votes for Cheeetar for doing the same. Note that he also joined in and admits as such but is still willing to think that others who have done it are scum.
Note that Cobalt would, then, not be on that list. Also note he has yet to consider Cobalt anything but scum.
When prodded about his feelings about Cobalt, he states this:
Quote
I think CobaltKobold is scum, I'm just much more sure about Cheeetar being scum. Let's see what CobaltKobold says today, and I might reconsider and revote her.
Note that Cobalt was 'scummier than me' earlier with no words to show a change in that stance, and that Cheeetar was scummy for doing the same thing Mr.Person and a good few others did.
More prodding shows Mr.person trying to hedge out by declaring his 'scum team' and that he's after the sure bet rather than the maybe, but hearing Cobalt's scumteam would make him sure who is scum.
Cobalt replieas. Mr.Person (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44270.msg903246#msg903246)speaks defensively in response and does not vote.
Eduren puts in his vote, putting Cobalt in L-1. Mr.Person, who was willing to act pushing and aggressive without putting the hammer vote against Neruz, hammers Cobalt. Note this is without any explanation for why what Cobalt said actually marks her as scum rather than a maybe. Also note it came less than an hour after Eduren's vote.
It screams of someone knowing Cobalt is scum, not wanting to kill her off, and hoping the bandwagon would fail (since I said if Eduren doesn't vote for her then the bandwagon is dead and we'll need to move on). However, once Eduren placed that vote, Mr.Person did not want to look like the 'man who failed to lynch scum after declaring she's scum' so he finished the job.
aka. a Bus.
Some people felt that Cobalt was town, fully and truly. Others weren't sure of her and was more sure of someone else. Mr.Person, though, say Cobalt only as scum and yet found every reason in the book to keep his vote off of her when it mattered. He prodded with little follow up. He voted when it was early then ran after someone else when the vote got close. He had others that he wanted to go after instead. All the time doing so while saying "yah, she's scum.. she's very scum"..but still.. that person we need to lynch... this person. We need to hear just a little more..just some more.
He was too bothered to lynch Cobalt, and too afraid to NOT lynch her.
His Day 1 and 2 suggested it. His early Day 3 declared it. His actions to confirmed scum confirm it.
Mr.Person, you, sir are scum and you shall follow your partner's footsteps to the noose.
Post by: webadict on December 15, 2009, 11:00:11 am
Now he KNOWS he blocked me without a reason. Holy crap.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 15, 2009, 12:24:03 pm
Well, ToonyMan, could you provide a recap of why you so firmly believed Cobalt was town, other than the fact that I was acting scummy to you and also voting for Cobalt.
Being wrong. I was being wrong, OK?
Cheeetar, you are still scum from yesterday. I correctly assumed you would try to get me lynched the next day(today), why is this?
Post by: Mephansteras on December 15, 2009, 12:43:12 pm
01.
02. Cheeetar
03.
04. Dakarian
05.
06.
07.
08. Vector
09. Mr.Person
10. Mephansteras
11.
12.
13. Eduren
14. ToonyMan
15. Webadict
16. Org
17.
18.
19. RedWarrior0
So, the living players are Cheeetar, Dakarian, GlyphGryph, Vector, Mr.Person, Mephansteras, Eduren, ToonyMan, Webadict, Org, Diakron, and RedWarrior0.
There are 3 Mafia members, one of whom was not Mafia day 1.
I have to deal with some work stuff, but I'll get a response in sometime today that has some actual analysis and non-recap content in it.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 15, 2009, 12:50:19 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on December 15, 2009, 12:56:59 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on December 15, 2009, 01:02:27 pm
Quote
Kobold - MAFIA
MAFIA MEMBER. You are a Kobold, otherwise known as SKULKING FILTH. You must have made a wrong turn somewhere, because you're in a Mafia game instead of a Dwarf Fortress, but luckily, you have some allies, it seems. You should do your best to protect them, instead. You have equipment to Protect someone once, and you can act as a Bodyguard, dying in their place, any number of times. The mafia partners are Leafsnail (Envy), [REDACTED], and CobaltKobold (Kobold). You win when it is no longer possible for town to win. The Mafia Chat is at [REDACTED]
No, look at the role description for Cobalt. I suppose it's possible that she was the converted mafia, but it seems unlikely. Panda said that Envy's ability didn't change the Role of the converted player, just their alignment, so I'm running on the assumption that since she was a Kobold to begin with that she was Mafia all along.
Safer to assume that we havn't caught our convert yet, unless you have some evidence that makes you think she was town on day 1?
Post by: ToonyMan on December 15, 2009, 01:05:09 pm
No I have no evidence as you say.
I'm looking at a Cheeetar, Meph, dakarian, Webadict right now.
But of course, that's only the active people, sigh. Still, Cheeetar and Webadict all the way.
Post by: webadict on December 15, 2009, 01:11:57 pm
I think there's a pattern inside the Role PM that Pandarsenic didn't count on being found. If he does thigns the way I do, he puts the Mafia IN ORDER of when they come out.
Sure, it's just a guess, but I think it's a good guess that one of the following are our last non-converted Mafia:
Vector
Mr.Person
Mephansteras
Eduren
ToonyMan
Webadict
Org
And yes, I realize it includes my name. It's not provable, but these seven are statistically more likely mafia.
It's really awesome, though, that I've managed to be blocked a good 3 times in a row, considering that Org chose not to Roleblock Day 2 BUT THEN blocks me Day 3 when I was able to use my role!
I also am going to die tonight, because they went for the Doc, which means they're after me next, or they would've kept SirBayer. I'm assuming that the Mafia, losing their best player, is probably down to Org and eduren, with Org being the convert target on Day 1.
Post by: Mr.Person on December 15, 2009, 01:27:11 pm
Dakarian, you're giving me FAR too much credit at playing as scum. I'm just not that good as scum. All the things you're accusing me of doing are things I would never do as scum. Bussing, vote hopping, bandwagoning, fighting Dakarian, I would never in a million years do any of those. Well, I might be willing to bus/be bussed if somebody better asks me to, and I'd be willing to fake-fight with anyone, but that's not the point.
Of course, I don't care about any of that. OMGUS is a null-tell, so I still think ToonyMan is a TownyMan. I think that Webadict is scum. He hasn't been acting like himself this game. I mean, suggesting a no lynch? He also hasn't been hounding people this game, this isn't the town Webadict I remember. And now he's trying to outguess the mod, which is odd, since I think he's probably right. Still, I don't really care, I want to lynch him.
Post by: dakarian on December 15, 2009, 01:32:41 pm
If we'll play guessing the mod though, Eduren, as a magistrate, is doubtful as an original mafia. A Mafia Magistrate is WAY too powerful to be balanced up and I doubt Pandar would balance things that way. Eduren (assuming he's honest and wasn't extremely !!BALLSY!! in a lie) using it Day 1 when it would gain them so much more in Lylo sounds too much Meh.
And judging by Leafsnail and Cobra's roles, the roles were handcrafted to the alignment at the time of creation. Thus Pandar didn't just make the roles then randomly gave the alignments out.
Now Eduren as the convert.. I can see, but not original recipe.
Org...meh, Org I don't get at all.
Post by: dakarian on December 15, 2009, 01:48:00 pm
I know this is all WIFOM, but remember, there was a point I could of just said "No, I won't vote CoboldKobold. I would rather vote Cheeetar." Sure, you guys wouldn't of liked it and would pretty much guarantee CK as scum if I roleflipped scum, but a chance at CK not getting killed is better than nothing. And you know what? I would of done it as scum.
Meh to that. Scum have a VERY hard time calling an accused scummate 'town'. They hate suspicion afterall and such talk IS suspicious. Scum prefer to hang on the fence.
If you disrupted that vote with a "NO" and someone else jumped in to finish her off in your place, the bandwagon this day would have been EPIC. "would've marked Cobalt scum if you flipped scum?" No one was listening to me so you had no chance of being lynched that day.
However, deciding not to vote if Eduren went 'no' would've been EASY, since you would just look like the others who voted for someone else. I would've disrupted the bandwagon and Cobalt would walk away even less a suspect than before.
So the best thing for mid-skilled scum to do was to hang back and delay delay delay, and hope Eduren didn't cast the vote so you could walk away clean. He voted yes, and you ran HARD for the hammer to keep your promise (after all, you got into this mess because you failed to do it early on)
Quote
Dakarian, you're giving me FAR too much credit at playing as scum. I'm just not that good as scum. All the things you're accusing me of doing are things I would never do as scum. Bussing, vote hopping, bandwagoning, fighting Dakarian, I would never in a million years do any of those. Well, I might be willing to bus/be bussed if somebody better asks me to, and I'd be willing to fake-fight with anyone, but that's not the point.
Far too much credit? You aren't newbiescum so don't say you're worse than that. Your actions so far aren't expert-scum either. It's good old common mid-range skill scum. You know enough to not lurk or act too confused. You know enough not to defend a scummate or overbuddy. However, you aren't bold and you don't gamble. You still fear being suspected and have to push yourself to write at times. You second guess yourself sometimes and worry over your posts: the last bits of Day 3 smell of that fear.
That's Mid-skilled scum.
Quote
Of course, I don't care about any of that. OMGUS is a null-tell, so I still think ToonyMan is a TownyMan. I think that Webadict is scum. He hasn't been acting like himself this game. I mean, suggesting a no lynch? He also hasn't been hounding people this game, this isn't the town Webadict I remember. And now he's trying to outguess the mod, which is odd, since I think he's probably right. Still, I don't really care, I want to lynch him.
I see a trend now. The mafia do so well in the day game because the town relies so much on past Meta to read players. All the mafia have to do is to paint a player as 'not acting like themselves' and call it a day.
Sorry, but you can't use Web as a lightning rod this game. I guess you gave up using me as the main lynch as well.
Post by: Mr.Person on December 15, 2009, 01:50:27 pm
Post by: dakarian on December 15, 2009, 01:52:33 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 15, 2009, 03:04:59 pm
So, starter questions:
Mr.Person, why are you so sure dakarian and Meph are town?
Org, why did you block webadict?
Post by: Org on December 15, 2009, 04:37:24 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on December 15, 2009, 04:40:03 pm
RNG told me to.
The random number generator has had you block webadict three times? I find that hard to believe.
Post by: Org on December 15, 2009, 04:42:39 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on December 15, 2009, 04:45:25 pm
Twice
Hmm, though it was three. Guess I'll have to back and check the day announcements.
Post by: Org on December 15, 2009, 04:46:56 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 15, 2009, 04:54:42 pm
VOTE COUNT PARTY
ToonyMan [1]: Cheeetar
Mr.Person [1]: Dakarian
Org [1]: Webadict
Cheeetar [1]: ToonyMan
Webadict [1]: Mr.Person
==[] to lych
Post by: Vector on December 15, 2009, 05:01:26 pm
Same goes for you, Eduren. I'd like to hear from Diakron and GryphGlyph a bit later, once they've gotten a chance to get settled.
I need to go reread through this thing and see what's up.
Props to Webadict for the statistics, by the way.
Pandarsenic: "Hammer to lych?" Does that mean that whoever we hammer becomes undead?
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 15, 2009, 05:08:37 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on December 15, 2009, 05:13:05 pm
I am curious as to why, though. Don't you have any suspicions as to whom the scum might be, Org?
Post by: RedWarrior0 on December 15, 2009, 05:19:37 pm
RedWarrior0, you're posting other places but seem to be avoiding us like the plague. What's your current batch of suspicions?First of all, the night was about a week. So I couldn't post then obviously. I sort of lost interest, but I'm hanging in.
Thoughts:
Org is Roleblocking web... why? Still waiting for an explanation.
Also, I need to reread some of what has happened before I get a good feel for it.
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 15, 2009, 05:20:21 pm
Post by: Eduren on December 15, 2009, 05:29:53 pm
I also am going to die tonight, because they went for the Doc, which means they're after me next, or they would've kept SirBayer. I'm assuming that the Mafia, losing their best player, is probably down to Org and eduren, with Org being the convert target on Day 1.What makes you think that I am scum? Furthermore, if I were then why would I have saved your ass Day1? Whether or not I actually had the power to do so I saved you nonetheless. Why, as scum, would I pass up the opportunity to eliminate a great townplayer at little cost to myself?
As for my suspicions, dakarian is starting to make sense about Person, I am still surprised that Org is able to turn on a computer, and Vector seems very unconfrontational.
Dakarian: If Mr. Person flips town, who are you going after next?
Vector: Who looks suspicious to you?
Post by: Vector on December 15, 2009, 05:55:00 pm
I also am going to die tonight, because they went for the Doc, which means they're after me next, or they would've kept SirBayer. I'm assuming that the Mafia, losing their best player, is probably down to Org and eduren, with Org being the convert target on Day 1.What makes you think that I am scum? Furthermore, if I were then why would I have saved your ass Day1? Whether or not I actually had the power to do so I saved you nonetheless. Why, as scum, would I pass up the opportunity to eliminate a great townplayer at little cost to myself?
WIFOM. The reason is WIFOM.
Vector: Who looks suspicious to you?
To be honest, I need to go do a big trawl to figure out what's changed now that CK has flipped scum. Finals are eating a lot of my time, so I don't have a nice big 5-hour chunk to take notes on this sucker.
I'll probably be able to get something substantial up by Friday at the earliest, because that's when my last test is.
Anyway, I don't feel good about any of our little 5-man-band of lurkers, and I'd like all of them to talk more.
Of the active people... hm. Meph, Webadict, and ToonyMan are probably town. I need to go back to look at Cheeetar, Dakarian, and Mr. Person to see how they interacted with various folks yesterday, given that they've been a little knot of scummy snarliness for the last while. My guess is that there's either one or two scum flying around in there, and the rest can be found in the lurker crew.
Post by: Org on December 15, 2009, 06:20:40 pm
Ah, ok, looks like I simply misremembered the number of times Org blocked Webadict.Meh. You were, but I kept changing between you and deciding using RNG. RNG won oiut.
I am curious as to why, though. Don't you have any suspicions as to whom the scum might be, Org?
Post by: ToonyMan on December 15, 2009, 06:22:36 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on December 15, 2009, 06:23:07 pm
Post by: Org on December 15, 2009, 06:25:13 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on December 15, 2009, 06:26:27 pm
You've got to start actively scum-hunting and analyzing things. You can't just do random actions throughout the game and expect to win!
Post by: Org on December 15, 2009, 06:28:51 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on December 15, 2009, 06:33:07 pm
But...thats what I do for most of my other games...
I know that. I'm painfully aware of it. It's also why, unless you get really lucky, you never help your team win regardless of whether you're town or scum.
Org, I'm going to keep my vote on you until you start actually playing these games instead of acting like a poorly written bot!
Post by: ToonyMan on December 15, 2009, 06:34:32 pm
D:<
Post by: Org on December 15, 2009, 07:06:04 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on December 15, 2009, 07:52:53 pm
Oh, if I wasn't taking this game seriously I would so policy lynch Org.
D:<
+1. He needs a few pressure votes, right now he's going for RiA, which is a null-tell .He's either faking acting crazy or legitimately acting crazy, but neither are scumtells. Still, if he keeps it up, his anti-town behavior more than justifies a lynch on him. The pressure votes would be to force him to do something different.
I would pressure vote him, but you know, Webadict is scum and all. On the other hand, if Org keeps up his RiA, vote-hopping time!
As to why Dak and Meph would be town, well, I figure even if both of them are scum, we would be better off trying to get the other scum dead first. Besides, I don't think Meph would pull a "lynch me" stunt as scum. That's an extreme bluff to make. I know a few players who might try it, but Meph is NOT one of them.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 15, 2009, 08:18:01 pm
Well, ToonyMan, could you provide a recap of why you so firmly believed Cobalt was town, other than the fact that I was acting scummy to you and also voting for Cobalt.
Being wrong. I was being wrong, OK?
So, you have absolutely no reason you believed Cobalt was town, other than me acting scummy to you and also voting for Cobalt. I'm pretty sure you were just trying desperately to prevent the lynch of your scum partner.
Post by: dakarian on December 15, 2009, 08:27:12 pm
I mean, I haven't heard anything in defense of him, supporting him, or anything.. just everyone forgetting he's around.
Post by: Vector on December 15, 2009, 08:31:16 pm
Ok, guys.. seriously. I really need to understand why Mr.Person would not be scum, given that I'm the only one that keeps noticing him.
I mean, I haven't heard anything in defense of him, supporting him, or anything.. just everyone forgetting he's around.
He might well be scum, but I'm uncomfortable with the lurkers going from day to day without anyone getting any reads on them. It can't hurt too much to take a step back and say "Hey, you people. What are you doing, anyway?"
And yeah, if I don't get a good scan on him myself then I don't want to vote 'im. People give biased arguments no matter what, and even if you're town I want to get a closer look at things without your filters.
It's really a time thing, more than anything else.
Post by: dakarian on December 15, 2009, 09:15:44 pm
Cheeetar, Mephansteras, ToonyMan, Webadict, and Mr.Person don't lurk.
GlyphGryph, and Diakron are replacements to people who've been gone or MEH all game. It's like day 1 for them, and you won't really get any reads on them until they are allowed to scumhunt normally for a time.
Org doesn't lurk.. he just is horrible to read.
Eduren and RedWarrior0 do sideline. Scans on them can be useful.
As for Mr.Person, I don't mind if you don't use MY argument, but I'd at least want SOME focus on him.. do a scan, ask him questions, do SOMETHING. Right now no one does ANYTHING to him other than ignore him.
Post by: Vector on December 15, 2009, 09:26:47 pm
To be true, we don't really have that many lurkers at the moment:
Cheeetar, Mephansteras, ToonyMan, Webadict, and Mr.Person don't lurk.
GlyphGryph, and Diakron are replacements to people who've been gone or MEH all game. It's like day 1 for them, and you won't really get any reads on them until they are allowed to scumhunt normally for a time.
Org doesn't lurk.. he just is horrible to read.
Eduren and RedWarrior0 do sideline. Scans on them can be useful.
As for Mr.Person, I don't mind if you don't use MY argument, but I'd at least want SOME focus on him.. do a scan, ask him questions, do SOMETHING. Right now no one does ANYTHING to him other than ignore him.
I know. The point is that right now, I've got two more exams I'm studying for... and though I can occasionally distract myself with the fora, I don't have the time to sit down and heavily concentrate on any games.
The thing that's bothering me at the moment is that I can't get any sort of read on 5 people, with 12 alive. That's nearly half, and that's a very bad situation to be in. The idea of going "Okay, Dakarian's got a good argument -> Lynch Mr. Person" doesn't sit well with me, even if your statements seem correct. I think of it as though we were sending ourselves into lurker-lylo. When half the game is illegible, you're in a barrel of trouble.
Meh. I'll probably be able to get some sort of thoughts in tomorrow after my exam (because I'll be too tired to go hit my head on the Wall of Lalgebra immediately afterward), but for now I'll just ask you to be patient a little while longer. Conclusions and analyses are coming up.
Post by: Vector on December 15, 2009, 09:28:09 pm
Post by: webadict on December 15, 2009, 09:31:24 pm
Ok, guys.. seriously. I really need to understand why Mr.Person would not be scum, given that I'm the only one that keeps noticing him.Oh...
I mean, I haven't heard anything in defense of him, supporting him, or anything.. just everyone forgetting he's around.
I keep forgetting eduren was a OSMagistrate... Gah! Yes, Mr.Person could be scum. So could a variety of people.
@Org: If the RNG thought I was scum and blockable...
Why wasn't anyone scummy Day 2?
Post by: Cheeetar on December 15, 2009, 09:34:50 pm
Well, ToonyMan, could you provide a recap of why you so firmly believed Cobalt was town, other than the fact that I was acting scummy to you and also voting for Cobalt.
Being wrong. I was being wrong, OK?
So, you have absolutely no reason you believed Cobalt was town, other than me acting scummy to you and also voting for Cobalt. I'm pretty sure you were just trying desperately to prevent the lynch of your scum partner.
Also: Why are you voting for me?
Post by: Org on December 15, 2009, 10:06:35 pm
Like I said, I was switching between targets, and forgot to confirm.Ok, guys.. seriously. I really need to understand why Mr.Person would not be scum, given that I'm the only one that keeps noticing him.Oh...
I mean, I haven't heard anything in defense of him, supporting him, or anything.. just everyone forgetting he's around.
I keep forgetting eduren was a OSMagistrate... Gah! Yes, Mr.Person could be scum. So could a variety of people.
@Org: If the RNG thought I was scum and blockable...
Why wasn't anyone scummy Day 2?
Post by: RedWarrior0 on December 15, 2009, 11:39:32 pm
right now he's going for RiA, which is a null-tell .wait, so RiA is a null tell? It's just another form of WIFOM (If I was scum, why on earth would I do something that scummy?), but it's null? Mr.Person.
Post by: Mr.Person on December 15, 2009, 11:53:57 pm
right now he's going for RiA, which is a null-tell .wait, so RiA is a null tell? It's just another form of WIFOM (If I was scum, why on earth would I do something that scummy?), but it's null? Mr.Person.
Exactly like WIFOM, it's only scummy if used maliciously. I don't think Org is trying to be malicious, but he does need to be more clear.
Post by: Vector on December 16, 2009, 12:10:25 am
right now he's going for RiA, which is a null-tell .wait, so RiA is a null tell? It's just another form of WIFOM (If I was scum, why on earth would I do something that scummy?), but it's null? Mr.Person.
Exactly like WIFOM, it's only scummy if used maliciously. I don't think Org is trying to be malicious, but he does need to be more clear.
I'm somewhat confused, Mr. Anti-Town Lyncher. Whence the sudden change in attitude? First you go "LYNCH ALL THE ANTI-TOWNIES," and now you're saying "Doesn't matter how much WIFOM you spew, what matters is your intent--which I can clearly figure out with my Brains of Steel."
That seems rather contradictory.
Post by: Diakron on December 16, 2009, 01:01:56 am
The biggest thing i notice is that you are "Taking this game seriously" however you seem to pick and choose when to be serious. care to explain?
Post by: Cheeetar on December 16, 2009, 01:08:10 am
ToonyMan, as you have always pushed a lynch on me i will start with you.
The biggest thing i notice is that you are "Taking this game seriously" however you seem to pick and choose when to be serious. care to explain?
Is that a vote based on ToonyMan's meta? Because Toony's meta is not a good reason to lynch.
Post by: Diakron on December 16, 2009, 01:17:47 am
Post by: Cheeetar on December 16, 2009, 01:32:35 am
Post by: Vector on December 16, 2009, 01:38:23 am
sorry i decide to do some question asking of my own at this point.
Is there some reason why you're suddenly being passive, Diakron? You see, the only good reason I can see you to do that is if you're scum. Why should you apologize for scumhunting, rather than explaining and moving on?
This is nonsense.
Unvote. Diakron.
Post by: Mr.Person on December 16, 2009, 02:15:05 am
right now he's going for RiA, which is a null-tell .wait, so RiA is a null tell? It's just another form of WIFOM (If I was scum, why on earth would I do something that scummy?), but it's null? Mr.Person.
Exactly like WIFOM, it's only scummy if used maliciously. I don't think Org is trying to be malicious, but he does need to be more clear.
I'm somewhat confused, Mr. Anti-Town Lyncher. Whence the sudden change in attitude? First you go "LYNCH ALL THE ANTI-TOWNIES," and now you're saying "Doesn't matter how much WIFOM you spew, what matters is your intent--which I can clearly figure out with my Brains of Steel."
That seems rather contradictory.
Umm, what? I don't even know what you're trying to say. I think you're trying to imply it's not possible to figure out a person's intent, which is laughably false. What do you think the point of the game is? Oh gosh, it's to figure out a person's alignment. If you figure out a person's alignment, it's trivial to figure out their intents and goals.
It's quite easy to find someone's intent, somtimes. Do their actions and mannerisms match their words? If not, they're lying and are thus not town. If they do match up, that doesn't make them town or anything, but it does mean they aren't lying. Org's never claimed to be active or normal or anything, really, so his mannerism (acting weird) doesn't prove anything on his own. It's annoying enough to ask him to stop, but it's not even close to enough to lynch him. Of course, if he keeps it up, that makes him uncooperative scum of some sort, but I doubt he's going to keep his crap up.
Hence why he needs to talk more. We need something from him to determine his alignment. If he doesn't on purpose, that's engaging in behavior known to be anti-town, which is lynchable.
Nothing contradictory here. I think Org is town, so I'm not going to lynch him. Lynching might be for the mafia, but I'll take any scum I can get my hands on, really. You know, serial killers, survivors, lynchers, w/e. All anti-town scum, really, that need to go. Better that they get nightkilled by the mafia, but if I think I've found someone who's not on the town, I'll go after them.
Of course, I only think Org is town for now because I'm more certain of Webadict and Cheeetar, but hey, once he talks more, it will all make more sense.
Post by: Vector on December 16, 2009, 02:43:33 am
right now he's going for RiA, which is a null-tell .wait, so RiA is a null tell? It's just another form of WIFOM (If I was scum, why on earth would I do something that scummy?), but it's null? Mr.Person.
Exactly like WIFOM, it's only scummy if used maliciously. I don't think Org is trying to be malicious, but he does need to be more clear.
I'm somewhat confused, Mr. Anti-Town Lyncher. Whence the sudden change in attitude? First you go "LYNCH ALL THE ANTI-TOWNIES," and now you're saying "Doesn't matter how much WIFOM you spew, what matters is your intent--which I can clearly figure out with my Brains of Steel."
That seems rather contradictory.
Umm, what? I don't even know what you're trying to say. I think you're trying to imply it's not possible to figure out a person's intent, which is laughably false. What do you think the point of the game is? Oh gosh, it's to figure out a person's alignment. If you figure out a person's alignment, it's trivial to figure out their intents and goals.
It's quite easy to find someone's intent, somtimes. Do their actions and mannerisms match their words? If not, they're lying and are thus not town. If they do match up, that doesn't make them town or anything, but it does mean they aren't lying. Org's never claimed to be active or normal or anything, really, so his mannerism (acting weird) doesn't prove anything on his own. It's annoying enough to ask him to stop, but it's not even close to enough to lynch him. Of course, if he keeps it up, that makes him uncooperative scum of some sort, but I doubt he's going to keep his crap up.
Hence why he needs to talk more. We need something from him to determine his alignment. If he doesn't on purpose, that's engaging in behavior known to be anti-town, which is lynchable.
Nothing contradictory here. I think Org is town, so I'm not going to lynch him. Lynching might be for the mafia, but I'll take any scum I can get my hands on, really. You know, serial killers, survivors, lynchers, w/e. All anti-town scum, really, that need to go. Better that they get nightkilled by the mafia, but if I think I've found someone who's not on the town, I'll go after them.
Sorry, I'm very tired.
Generally, I play this game with the idea that we will start from a player's actions, and from there attempt to determine their alignment. If their actions look scummy, then they are probably scum. I am not entirely sure how you propose to determine intent when actions are declaring "scum" and alignment is indeterminable.
Rather, that's what I thought you were saying... geez, I seem to really need to go sleep or something. I don't disagree that Org needs to talk more, and I see now that we have different definitions of "anti-town." I was thinking more "annoying/noob/pain-in-the-ass," and you seem to be thinking "non-town-aligned."
I also thought that by RiA, you meant purposeful RiA, as opposed to what he does all the time. From my point of view, the term "RiA" refers only to weird behavior with the intent to confuse, whereas WIFOM can be accidental. In any case, it seems that you meant "RiA is null in the context of Org," rather than "RiA is always null."
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 16, 2009, 03:47:43 am
ToonyMan [2]: Cheeetar, Diakron
Mr.Person [2]: Dakarian, RedWarrior0
Org [2]: Webadict, Mephansteras
Cheeetar [1]: ToonyMan
Webadict [1]: Mr.Person
RedWarrior0 [1]: Vector
==[] to lych
Post by: Vector on December 16, 2009, 04:10:11 am
Unvote. Diakron.
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 16, 2009, 04:22:33 am
Post by: Vector on December 16, 2009, 04:35:03 am
Looks like we can't unvote. Or... something. Pfaugh.
Post by: Vector on December 16, 2009, 04:40:50 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 16, 2009, 04:44:06 am
Post by: Cheeetar on December 16, 2009, 05:52:21 am
E.g.
Quote
Unvote thatguy. Vote thisguy.
Post by: Vector on December 16, 2009, 12:08:21 pm
You're right, I'm just too tired. Unvote RedWarrior0. Vote Diakron.
Post by: SirBayer on December 16, 2009, 01:33:08 pm
or whatever you could also go out for lunch
without me
:<
Post by: ToonyMan on December 16, 2009, 02:58:33 pm
Well, ToonyMan, could you provide a recap of why you so firmly believed Cobalt was town, other than the fact that I was acting scummy to you and also voting for Cobalt.
Being wrong. I was being wrong, OK?
So, you have absolutely no reason you believed Cobalt was town, other than me acting scummy to you and also voting for Cobalt. I'm pretty sure you were just trying desperately to prevent the lynch of your scum partner.
Also: Why are you voting for me?
BALGHAJRHJKAJK. Oh come on!
D:
D:::
D::::::::::::::::
Ok, ok, let's go through this without going insane ToonyMan.
Cheeetar, yesterday there was a lynching piling on CobaltKobold, no? At first I thought he was scum by saying yeah, he was scum. He was at -1 to lynch and you quoted me and told me to lynch him. I said no. You questioned why I didn't. This got a thought in my head, you we're trying to get me to kill CobaltKobold! I have to remember not to make scumlists as often, people get so attached to it. Like I said earlier, scumlists for me are just who I'm going at right now. It's helpful to the town and to me. It does not mean I want them dead (yet!). I found your motives suspicious and labeled you as scum, THINKING that CobaltKobold is probably town as no scum would push to town to hammer their buddy unless it was bussing (it was). LATER, CobaltKobold flings out suspicions left and right, kinda scummy, but I shrugged it off. THEN, he's lynched by a hammer from Dakarian or something I don't remember. NOW, you (Cheeetar) are voting me, because I said CobaltKobold was town, BECAUSE OF YOU. I predicted you would try to lynch me today, and I was right. YOU ARE THE SCUM GOOD SIR. YOU ARE MAKING ME EXPLAIN WHY I AM VOTING YOU EVERY GOD DAMN MINUTE.
No, I was not trying to stop the lynch of my scum partner, I was trying to stop the lynch of SOMEONE I THOUGHT WAS TOWN.
Stop asking the same question and SSCUMHUNT
ToonyMan, as you have always pushed a lynch on me i will start with you.
The biggest thing i notice is that you are "Taking this game seriously" however you seem to pick and choose when to be serious. care to explain?
When am I NOT SERIOUS?
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 16, 2009, 03:23:18 pm
ToonyMan [2]: Cheeetar, Diakron
Mr.Person [2]: Dakarian, RedWarrior0
Org [2]: Webadict, Mephansteras
Cheeetar [1]: ToonyMan
Webadict [1]: Mr.Person
Diakron [1]: Vector
==[] to lych
Post by: webadict on December 16, 2009, 06:17:53 pm
I call BS on that. You didn't do squat.Like I said, I was switching between targets, and forgot to confirm.Ok, guys.. seriously. I really need to understand why Mr.Person would not be scum, given that I'm the only one that keeps noticing him.Oh...
I mean, I haven't heard anything in defense of him, supporting him, or anything.. just everyone forgetting he's around.
I keep forgetting eduren was a OSMagistrate... Gah! Yes, Mr.Person could be scum. So could a variety of people.
@Org: If the RNG thought I was scum and blockable...
Why wasn't anyone scummy Day 2?
Post by: Diakron on December 16, 2009, 07:42:03 pm
Post by: Org on December 16, 2009, 07:44:30 pm
?? ?? ??I call BS on that. You didn't do squat.Like I said, I was switching between targets, and forgot to confirm.Ok, guys.. seriously. I really need to understand why Mr.Person would not be scum, given that I'm the only one that keeps noticing him.Oh...
I mean, I haven't heard anything in defense of him, supporting him, or anything.. just everyone forgetting he's around.
I keep forgetting eduren was a OSMagistrate... Gah! Yes, Mr.Person could be scum. So could a variety of people.
@Org: If the RNG thought I was scum and blockable...
Why wasn't anyone scummy Day 2?
Post by: Cheeetar on December 16, 2009, 08:06:59 pm
BALGHAJRHJKAJK. Oh come on!
D:
D:::
D::::::::::::::::
Ok, ok, let's go through this without going insane ToonyMan.
Cheeetar, yesterday there was a lynching piling on CobaltKobold, no? At first I thought he was scum by saying yeah, he was scum. He was at -1 to lynch and you quoted me and told me to lynch him. I said no. You questioned why I didn't. This got a thought in my head, you we're trying to get me to kill CobaltKobold! I have to remember not to make scumlists as often, people get so attached to it. Like I said earlier, scumlists for me are just who I'm going at right now. It's helpful to the town and to me. It does not mean I want them dead (yet!). I found your motives suspicious and labeled you as scum, THINKING that CobaltKobold is probably town as no scum would push to town to hammer their buddy unless it was bussing (it was). LATER, CobaltKobold flings out suspicions left and right, kinda scummy, but I shrugged it off. THEN, he's lynched by a hammer from Dakarian or something I don't remember. NOW, you (Cheeetar) are voting me, because I said CobaltKobold was town, BECAUSE OF YOU. I predicted you would try to lynch me today, and I was right. YOU ARE THE SCUM GOOD SIR. YOU ARE MAKING ME EXPLAIN WHY I AM VOTING YOU EVERY GOD DAMN MINUTE.
No, I was not trying to stop the lynch of my scum partner, I was trying to stop the lynch of SOMEONE I THOUGHT WAS TOWN.
Stop asking the same question and SSCUMHUNT
I got that. I wasn't asking about that. I was asking if you had any other motives for not voting Cobalt other than me pushing for Cobalts lynch suspiciously, which you didn't (to my knowledge). To my knowledge, this is it: I ask you to vote Cobalt, because you had earlier said he was scum (or so I thought, as a scumlist to me is a list of people you think is scum, and therefore would want to lynch. This is evidently not the case, and more a list of suspicions that can change.). You said no, and found me suspicious when I asked you why not, as you thought I was pushing too hard to hammer Cobalt, and that it was a bandwagon.
Now that Cobalt is revealed scum, you now think I was bussing Cobalt.
Is this right, Y/N.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 16, 2009, 08:11:34 pm
unless it was bussing (it was).
Post by: Cheeetar on December 16, 2009, 08:13:01 pm
Quote from: ToonyMan
Y
?
Post by: ToonyMan on December 16, 2009, 08:14:11 pm
Prepared to use that against me someway?
Post by: Cheeetar on December 16, 2009, 08:15:02 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on December 16, 2009, 08:15:22 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on December 16, 2009, 08:17:40 pm
I said Yes. As in, Y.
I'm starting to get confused as well now.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 16, 2009, 08:20:28 pm
Prepared to use that against me someway?
This I was confused by, but I am starting to realise that anything I say or do will be scummy to you.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 16, 2009, 08:26:07 pm
Prepared to use that against me someway?
This I was confused by, but I am starting to realise that anything I say or do will be scummy to you.
No, what you've been doing is scummy. I'm not just throwing a dart on a list of players.
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 16, 2009, 09:45:23 pm
Quote
Mr.Person, why are you so sure dakarian and Meph are town?
So this time, Mr Person, I'll do it in red.
Post by: webadict on December 16, 2009, 11:28:47 pm
?? ?? ??I call BS on that. You didn't do squat.Like I said, I was switching between targets, and forgot to confirm.Ok, guys.. seriously. I really need to understand why Mr.Person would not be scum, given that I'm the only one that keeps noticing him.Oh...
I mean, I haven't heard anything in defense of him, supporting him, or anything.. just everyone forgetting he's around.
I keep forgetting eduren was a OSMagistrate... Gah! Yes, Mr.Person could be scum. So could a variety of people.
@Org: If the RNG thought I was scum and blockable...
Why wasn't anyone scummy Day 2?
Seriously, why is everyone ignoring this!
Post by: Mr.Person on December 16, 2009, 11:49:27 pm
Org, your answer, as always, is crap, but at least you answered. Mr. Person, you didn't (at least not that I noticed):QuoteMr.Person, why are you so sure dakarian and Meph are town?
So this time, Mr Person, I'll do it in red.
As to why Dak and Meph would be town, well, I figure even if both of them are scum, we would be better off trying to get the other scum dead first. Besides, I don't think Meph would pull a "lynch me" stunt as scum. That's an extreme bluff to make. I know a few players who might try it, but Meph is NOT one of them.
Post by: webadict on December 16, 2009, 11:59:33 pm
Or perhaps, we can go with logistics: If Mr.Person is scum, then dakarian AND Mephansteras cannot be scum. If both Mephansteras and dakarian are scum, then it is impossible for Mr.Person to be scum.Org, your answer, as always, is crap, but at least you answered. Mr. Person, you didn't (at least not that I noticed):QuoteMr.Person, why are you so sure dakarian and Meph are town?
So this time, Mr Person, I'll do it in red.As to why Dak and Meph would be town, well, I figure even if both of them are scum, we would be better off trying to get the other scum dead first. Besides, I don't think Meph would pull a "lynch me" stunt as scum. That's an extreme bluff to make. I know a few players who might try it, but Meph is NOT one of them.
However, it's more likely they are BOTH not scum.
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 17, 2009, 12:23:49 am
I also clearly missed whatever it was that ties Meph and Dak together so that they are either both or neither scum, but couldn't be, say Dak and Mr. Person as scum.
I think my lesson here is I need to reread the thread. Again. And perhaps pay more attention this time.
Post by: webadict on December 17, 2009, 12:28:40 am
Sorry, I missed that you had responded. Unvote Mr. PersonIt's not really both or neither. It's:
I also clearly missed whatever it was that ties Meph and Dak together so that they are either both or neither scum, but couldn't be, say Dak and Mr. Person as scum.
I think my lesson here is I need to reread the thread. Again. And perhaps pay more attention this time.
If dak is Mafia, Meph is Mafia.
If Meph is Town, dak is Town.
If the subsequent is not listed, the consequent is undetermined.
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 17, 2009, 12:54:00 am
...
Which still gives me know clue as to why, empirically, what you've described would be the case.
Post by: Vector on December 17, 2009, 12:57:15 am
So Meph could be Mafia, and Dak could be town, logically, but it would be unlikely?
...
Which still gives me know clue as to why, empirically, what you've described would be the case.
Did you not see the part where Meph has a role which lets him find out the alignment that performed a kill, and Dakarian Day-vigged ExKirby? Unless Dakarian is some sort of strange anti-miller, Meph and Dakarian are extremely likely to have the same alignment.
Post by: Mephansteras on December 17, 2009, 01:36:57 am
I checked dakarian after he performed the day-kill and got a pro-town result.
The reason people believe that I am town is that I pushed for a lynch on myself yesterday in order to get dakarian confirmed. As it was, we lynched CobaltKobold instead but it took my self-lynch attempt to break the deadlock we had going. So it worked out even better then I'd hoped.
Post by: Eduren on December 17, 2009, 01:37:44 am
Unless Dakarian is some sort of strange anti-miller, Meph and Dakarian are extremely likely to have the same alignment.Isn't it possible that Pandar could be screwing with Meph?
Post by: Vector on December 17, 2009, 01:45:27 am
Unless Dakarian is some sort of strange anti-miller, Meph and Dakarian are extremely likely to have the same alignment.Isn't it possible that Pandar could be screwing with Meph?
Yeah, sorry. I forgot the other "unreliable results" direction.
Post by: Mr.Person on December 17, 2009, 02:08:32 am
Or perhaps, we can go with logistics: If Mr.Person is scum, then dakarian AND Mephansteras cannot be scum. If both Mephansteras and dakarian are scum, then it is impossible for Mr.Person to be scum.
However, it's more likely they are BOTH not scum.
What the heck? When town Webadict says a person is scum, he's direct, in-your-face, and loud. Here, Webadict merely implies I'm scum. He gives no reasoning. He states no suspiscions outright. He doesn't post his thoughts. No, this is NOT town Webadict.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 17, 2009, 04:30:34 am
Like I said, we have better people to go after than Dakarian and Meph. We've talked about Dakarian a lot already. Of course, if anybody wants to talk about Dak or Meph, nobody's going to stop you or anything, I just think we'd be better off talking about other people. For instance:Or perhaps, we can go with logistics: If Mr.Person is scum, then dakarian AND Mephansteras cannot be scum. If both Mephansteras and dakarian are scum, then it is impossible for Mr.Person to be scum.
However, it's more likely they are BOTH not scum.
What the heck? When town Webadict says a person is scum, he's direct, in-your-face, and loud. Here, Webadict merely implies I'm scum. He gives no reasoning. He states no suspiscions outright. He doesn't post his thoughts. No, this is NOT town Webadict.
No no no no no no no. We do not read Webadict's meta. It is not possible. You only have a chance by trying to see if Webadict is trying to fit his meta, not if Webadict is acting what seems to be normally.
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 17, 2009, 04:44:18 am
ToonyMan [2]: Cheeetar, Diakron
Mr.Person [2]: Dakarian, RedWarrior0
Org [2]: Webadict, Mephansteras
Cheeetar [1]: ToonyMan
Webadict [1]: Mr.Person
Diakron [1]: Vector
==[] to lynch
Post by: Cheeetar on December 17, 2009, 04:58:33 am
Also: STOP! HAMMERTIME!
Just to see if it works.
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 17, 2009, 05:05:01 am
You saw nothing.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 17, 2009, 05:23:16 am
Post by: webadict on December 17, 2009, 07:47:31 am
Like I said, we have better people to go after than Dakarian and Meph. We've talked about Dakarian a lot already. Of course, if anybody wants to talk about Dak or Meph, nobody's going to stop you or anything, I just think we'd be better off talking about other people. For instance:First of all, I have yet to see a meta argument ever actually work against me. Second of all, you didn't even do it CORRECTLY! I was going off the fact that there are ONLY TWO SCUM, moron. How that implies that I'm calling you scum is somehow a stretch of an argument.Or perhaps, we can go with logistics: If Mr.Person is scum, then dakarian AND Mephansteras cannot be scum. If both Mephansteras and dakarian are scum, then it is impossible for Mr.Person to be scum.
However, it's more likely they are BOTH not scum.
What the heck? When town Webadict says a person is scum, he's direct, in-your-face, and loud. Here, Webadict merely implies I'm scum. He gives no reasoning. He states no suspiscions outright. He doesn't post his thoughts. No, this is NOT town Webadict.
Like, airport runway stretch.
Post by: dakarian on December 17, 2009, 11:55:58 am
Meanwhile.. doing an odd scan on Org.
Post by: Org on December 17, 2009, 12:25:43 pm
You see why I've deemed him scum then. Just a whiff at him thinking you are against him and he charges headlong into you.Coo dood
Meanwhile.. doing an odd scan on Org.
Post by: dakarian on December 17, 2009, 12:47:16 pm
I scanned for Org's meta because he's normally unreadable. All attempts to scumhunt him normally just leads to tears. Normally, that's from the person flinging newtells, but Org is NOT new. Still, now that I have a few recent games where he was scum I decided to take the Meta route and see if I can crack him in this game, at least.
Org was scum in NSBM2 and Color Mafia. He was town in a few other games. I just did a quickscan to compare and noticed something: When he was scum in both games, he always lurked but when he showed up he scumhunted. You see him vote, attack, prod, and even quote to go after someone. It actually suggested pro-town antics.
Elsewhere? Pure activelurk. A vote here or there, but mostly he goofs around and becomes useless to the town as a whole.
It's...it's like the anti-player! He looks more townish as scum and scumish as town. THAT'S why everyone wants to lynch him when he's town but ignores him when he's scum.
Seriously.. if THAT's his meta then I might actually start trying to do something drastic to change it. But that's another day, another game. This game, if I were to go by the meta, Org's actions are meh and, thus, it suggest's he's town. A town that's becoming so anti-town that he's actually helping us LOSE, but...town.
Spoiler: talk involving Org but not involving this game (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mr.Person on December 17, 2009, 02:19:52 pm
You see why I've deemed him scum then. Just a whiff at him thinking you are against him and he charges headlong into you.
Meanwhile.. doing an odd scan on Org.
I've been voting him for a good bit now.
Like I said, we have better people to go after than Dakarian and Meph. We've talked about Dakarian a lot already. Of course, if anybody wants to talk about Dak or Meph, nobody's going to stop you or anything, I just think we'd be better off talking about other people. For instance:First of all, I have yet to see a meta argument ever actually work against me. Second of all, you didn't even do it CORRECTLY! I was going off the fact that there are ONLY TWO SCUM, moron. How that implies that I'm calling you scum is somehow a stretch of an argument.Or perhaps, we can go with logistics: If Mr.Person is scum, then dakarian AND Mephansteras cannot be scum. If both Mephansteras and dakarian are scum, then it is impossible for Mr.Person to be scum.
However, it's more likely they are BOTH not scum.
What the heck? When town Webadict says a person is scum, he's direct, in-your-face, and loud. Here, Webadict merely implies I'm scum. He gives no reasoning. He states no suspiscions outright. He doesn't post his thoughts. No, this is NOT town Webadict.
Like, airport runway stretch.
First off, you're not answering the big question, though. Who's scum? Second off, yes, I've seen you in many a game. You're usually in-your-face and aggressive as all fuck when you're town. You're not doing that, so I can only assume you're scum.
@Dakarian: You've just encouraged Org to lurk, in a way. The reality is, Org should scumhunt all the time, of course. Not faulting you or anything, so don't fret about that too much.
Post by: webadict on December 17, 2009, 02:22:40 pm
... I did say who I thought was scum, but it's awesome that you're basing an argument on me like that. I'm going to lynch Org. Clearly, he killed Night 2. That's why there was no block. You had to switch it up. :PYou see why I've deemed him scum then. Just a whiff at him thinking you are against him and he charges headlong into you.
Meanwhile.. doing an odd scan on Org.
I've been voting him for a good bit now.Like I said, we have better people to go after than Dakarian and Meph. We've talked about Dakarian a lot already. Of course, if anybody wants to talk about Dak or Meph, nobody's going to stop you or anything, I just think we'd be better off talking about other people. For instance:First of all, I have yet to see a meta argument ever actually work against me. Second of all, you didn't even do it CORRECTLY! I was going off the fact that there are ONLY TWO SCUM, moron. How that implies that I'm calling you scum is somehow a stretch of an argument.Or perhaps, we can go with logistics: If Mr.Person is scum, then dakarian AND Mephansteras cannot be scum. If both Mephansteras and dakarian are scum, then it is impossible for Mr.Person to be scum.
However, it's more likely they are BOTH not scum.
What the heck? When town Webadict says a person is scum, he's direct, in-your-face, and loud. Here, Webadict merely implies I'm scum. He gives no reasoning. He states no suspiscions outright. He doesn't post his thoughts. No, this is NOT town Webadict.
Like, airport runway stretch.
First off, you're not answering the big question, though. Who's scum? Second off, yes, I've seen you in many a game. You're usually in-your-face and aggressive as all fuck when you're town. You're not doing that, so I can only assume you're scum.
@Dakarian: You've just encouraged Org to lurk, in a way. The reality is, Org should scumhunt all the time, of course. Not faulting you or anything, so don't fret about that too much.
(Plus, it didn't matter, because I was already blocked.)
Post by: dakarian on December 17, 2009, 02:30:18 pm
@Dakarian: You've just encouraged Org to lurk, in a way. The reality is, Org should scumhunt all the time, of course. Not faulting you or anything, so don't fret about that too much.
Actually, no. I'm effectively killing off the Org is Org defense by showing that Org can very much NOT act like Org. Essentially, I'm nullifying his meta. The process saves him from me this game. Next game, he will be very wise to change up..as, again, I know he can.
@everyone
Do I need to do a rolling push on everyone again?
Post by: Mr.Person on December 17, 2009, 02:39:41 pm
Post by: webadict on December 17, 2009, 03:04:31 pm
If Org IS scum, we'll know when we get down to only one scum left. He can't block AND nightkill, so he'll either be clear, nightkilled, or give the town a whole bunch of nights with no nightkill. Any of those would be great.Perhaps. Pandarsenic MIGHT allow double actions for Mafia though I have no idea. I just think he's scum, and I believe you're scummy.
Post by: dakarian on December 17, 2009, 03:33:48 pm
Meanwhile, took a look back at the start..we have 4 scum, not 3. 1 was lynched, and one a convert. To be honest, if we just focus on Day 2 and beyond that 'convert' will be just another mafia, so really we can just think of it as 3 again.
In fact, with 12 alive and 3 scum, we're now at 3 mislynches before we lose, with a No Lynch before lylo. A typical game now. We're better off than a typical game, though, since we have a month and a half of data to read for data.
*ponders about a Day 3 based wide scan*
Post by: Diakron on December 17, 2009, 03:36:41 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 17, 2009, 03:37:27 pm
Post by: webadict on December 17, 2009, 04:05:17 pm
That'll work for me.... Huh?
Meanwhile, took a look back at the start..we have 4 scum, not 3. 1 was lynched, and one a convert. To be honest, if we just focus on Day 2 and beyond that 'convert' will be just another mafia, so really we can just think of it as 3 again.
In fact, with 12 alive and 3 scum, we're now at 3 mislynches before we lose, with a No Lynch before lylo. A typical game now. We're better off than a typical game, though, since we have a month and a half of data to read for data.
*ponders about a Day 3 based wide scan*
... Then, that means there are TWO from that list plus another!
Post by: webadict on December 17, 2009, 04:11:08 pm
VectorThis list.
Mr.Person
Mephansteras
Eduren
ToonyMan
Webadict
Org
That would mean Mr.Person and Org could in fact be original scum (Also, I guess this means that dak, Meph, and Mr.Person COULD all be mafia :P)
Wow, we're dumb... We forgot the real number of mafia!
Post by: Org on December 17, 2009, 04:13:34 pm
Post by: Mr.Person on December 17, 2009, 04:53:04 pm
You see, kiddies, I'm the IRS. I can check a person's tax records to see their alignment. On the first night, I found out ToonyMan was pro-town. On the second night, I found out Eduren was town. On the third night, I found out that Mephanasteras is town, but I was also told I rechecked Eduren's records and found out he's really pro-mafia. Thus, I'll unvote Webadict and vote Eduren. No, I have no idea why I rechecked Eduren, it's probably role related or something, I don't really know. I didn't ask Pand to do it, I inspected Meph. I'd also like to point out that I inspected Meph, not Dakarian, the logical one to inspect if I thought they were both scum.
Note that for all of them, those are people I targetted. I have no idea if those people are in fact the ones I hit, I didn't recieve any indication as to who I actually inspected (except for the recheck on Eduren, which did specifically say his name)
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 17, 2009, 04:56:50 pm
tl;dr: Don't read too much into presence or avoidance of names in result PMs.
Post by: Vector on December 17, 2009, 05:14:37 pm
Unvote Diakron.
Eduren.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 17, 2009, 05:14:54 pm
Alright, we've had sufficient talk about various subjects that I feel putting this out here would be good for the town.
You see, kiddies, I'm the IRS. I can check a person's tax records to see their alignment. On the first night, I found out ToonyMan was pro-town. On the second night, I found out Eduren was town. On the third night, I found out that Mephanasteras is town, but I was also told I rechecked Eduren's records and found out he's really pro-mafia. Thus, I'll unvote Webadict and vote Eduren. No, I have no idea why I rechecked Eduren, it's probably role related or something, I don't really know. I didn't ask Pand to do it, I inspected Meph. I'd also like to point out that I inspected Meph, not Dakarian, the logical one to inspect if I thought they were both scum.
Note that for all of them, those are people I targetted. I have no idea if those people are in fact the ones I hit, I didn't recieve any indication as to who I actually inspected (except for the recheck on Eduren, which did specifically say his name)
No wonder you haven't been attacking me this game. :-P
Unvote Cheeetar. Vote Eduren. I can't see why you would lie right now anyway.
I bet your role gives town the first time, then the next night you're told if you slipped up and they're actually scum.
Post by: dakarian on December 17, 2009, 05:16:58 pm
Meh.. for once, I'll bite. Unvote Mr.Person
Vote Eduren
Post by: ToonyMan on December 17, 2009, 05:17:19 pm
Scumlist:
Cheeetar, Webadict, and Eduren.
That's a wrap.
Post by: Mephansteras on December 17, 2009, 05:18:14 pm
So, we have 12 players, with 3 Mafia.
Assuming that Mr.Person is telling the Truth (big assumption, I know), then we now have the following as town:
Mephansteras
dakarian
ToonyMan
Mr.Person
With Eduren as Mafia (probably the Replacement? Not sure, although it would fit with Web's list)
That gives us:
Cheeetar
GlyphGryph
Vector
Webadict
Org
Diakron
RedWarrior0
As possible scum.
Anyone have any information to back up what Mr.Person just said?
Fake-Edit: Whoa...let's not all jump to a bandwagon too quickly here. We don't know that Mr.Person is telling the truth yet.
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 17, 2009, 05:18:58 pm
ToonyMan [2]: Cheeetar, Diakron
Mr.Person [1]: RedWarrior0
Org [2]: Webadict, Mephansteras
Eduren [4]: Mr.Person, Vector, ToonyMan, Dakarian
4 to lynch
EDUREN HAS BEEN LYNCHED STOP POSTING
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 17, 2009, 05:19:18 pm
Mr. P, assuming what you say is true, did it clearly differentiate between "pro-town" and "town" as your post implied? Because that would be an interesting comment on ToonyMan's status.
Quote from: Diakron
ok i'm confused what the hell is going on now???
I totally feel you there. :P But that kind of comment isn't exactly useful, and just because you're starting mid-game doesn't mean you're not scum, so a few quick questions - Are you happy with the role you received? Is there anyone you already think is scummy? Have you finished reading/processing the entire thread yet?
Speaking of which, I'm on page 28 of my re-read. Gonna make sure I don't miss stupid obvious stuff this time through hopefully.
Also, web, I was wondering why those three couldn't all be scum by your logic, since the game started 19/4 and two scum died and people mentioned multiple times that at least one person was converted, so that would be three. (Are we sure that there was only one conversion, by the way?). Still, the chances of all three turning scum does seem unlikely somehow...
Anyways, back to work for now. ::warily looks around to evade gaze of the level boss:: Will continue reviewing thread, hopefully I'll have picked out something useful to throw at people by the time I come back. Or I'll end up having to read it a third time, whatever.
Also, can someone explain the current hammer rules? Does the day immediately end the moment someone gets a majority of votes?
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 17, 2009, 05:19:50 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 17, 2009, 05:35:47 pm
"Hammertime!" He pulls a gun from his oversized legwear and shoots Eduren in the head. He shuffles out of the thread.
Can't Touch This rule is no longer in effect.
You notice as well that Mr.Person is gone. Suddenly, the president's security detail rushes onto the scene, a moment too late! Glenn Beck has caused President Barack Eduren Obama has been impeached, with a gun.
Quote
Eduren - Barack Obama - Unwitting Town Lynchee
You're the President of the United States. With the powers outlined in the U.S. Constitution, you can grant a pardon to any number of players at any point in the day, which will prevent their lynch on that day. You cannot pardon yourself. Pardoning someone will, upon their failed lynch, reveal your identity as Barack Obama. In addition, the Secret Service will protect you from all nightkills for one night. Beware, someone in this game may want you impeached. You win when all scum are dead.
Quote
Mr.Person - Glenn Beck - Lyncher
Socialists are destroying this country! Your goal is to identify the BARACK OBAMA, leader of the dirty socialists, and have him removed from office. But he can't be killed by independent action, oh no. You're a man of the people, and the people must vote that Barack Obama be impeached. And by impeached we mean killed. Each night, you can pay off a government official to read a player's tax files, learning if they are PRO-MAFIA or PRO-TOWN, as well as if they are a SOCIALIST (only Barack Obama is a socialist). If Barack Obama is assassinated, you become an ordinary townie. If you succeed in lynching Barack Obama (oh the awkward implications) you disappear from the game. You win when you lynch Barack Obama, but if he is assassinated, you win when all scum are dead. You are not considered to be scum.
The sun plunges downward from the sky, abruptly ending the day. You all go to sleep.
DO IT.
Night ends 11 PM Pacific on Friday, December 18. That's over 30 hours, I'm sure you'll all manage.
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 18, 2009, 06:17:01 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 22, 2009, 10:41:39 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on December 29, 2009, 07:31:45 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 01, 2010, 08:12:42 am
You find him lying on a pile of papers.
Quote
Webadict - Pandarsenic
You are Pandarsenic, the Moderator. Once per game, during a night phase, you can consultyourmyyour... notes on a player, seeing their role PM. Your result is never inaccurate (you cannot be redirected). If you Cheat to find a mafia member's role PM, the part informing them of their partners and their chat URL will be removed, but that they are Mafia and how their ability interacts with the MAFIAKILL action will remain. You win when all scum are dead.
Unfortunately, whatever he'd been reading is too bloodstained to make out.
What matters is nine of you remain.
Day Ends no sooner than 11 PM Jan 7.
I AM SPARTACUS RULE IS NOW IN EFFECT
Post by: Eduren on January 01, 2010, 08:56:38 am
(I've held this joke in the whole night)
Post by: ToonyMan on January 01, 2010, 01:04:16 pm
Still, quick-lynching Eduren is fun.
Vote Dakarian. Whatever.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 01, 2010, 01:08:18 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 01, 2010, 01:38:41 pm
Also, Hooray! We're down to single digits!
Post by: ToonyMan on January 01, 2010, 01:56:03 pm
Cheeetar
Dakarian
GlyphGryph
Vector
Mephansteras
ToonyMan
Cheddarius
Diakron
RedWarrior0
4 scum left (still).
5 town.
WE ARE AT LYLO.
Unvote. Hold on.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 01, 2010, 02:00:22 pm
Org was replaced, but the matter remains the same. Diakron probably won't explain himself and whateverohgodijustrealziedwearesodead
Everybody lynch the scum Diakron.
Post by: Vector on January 01, 2010, 03:13:16 pm
However, ToonyMan, I don't think there's any way we could be at lylo, unless you know more than I do--aren't we going off of 4 -> 3 + swapped -> 2 + swapped? Lylo should be tomorrow.
Post by: dakarian on January 01, 2010, 03:17:55 pm
Meanwhile, yah, Diakron, needs to go.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 01, 2010, 03:18:06 pm
However, ToonyMan, I don't think there's any way we could be at lylo, unless you know more than I do--aren't we going off of 4 -> 3 + swapped -> 2 + swapped? Lylo should be tomorrow.
I thought there was still 4 scum. Yeah it was a mistake. This whole game I've been playing horribly.
CORRECTION: There is 3 scum left.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 01, 2010, 03:19:41 pm
No, don't think that ToonyMan.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 01, 2010, 03:45:08 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on January 01, 2010, 04:04:23 pm
We are all Spartacus.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 01, 2010, 04:27:45 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on January 01, 2010, 04:31:01 pm
Post by: Cheddarius on January 01, 2010, 06:00:05 pm
Oh, and this is allowed:
"- Kill Webadict Now
- Shenanigans
- Carelessness
- Inattentiveness
- Distractedness
- Forgetfulness
- Can't Touch This
- Laziness
- "And then Mod was a Bastard."
- Spartacus
- OUTRIGHT SHAMELESS LIES
- Ozymandias
- Try Again
- Bad Ideas"
So, what do you guys think I should activate next?
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 01, 2010, 07:15:37 pm
BEST
VOTE COUNT
EVAR
Post by: Cheddarius on January 01, 2010, 07:24:09 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 01, 2010, 07:27:16 pm
Post by: Cheddarius on January 01, 2010, 07:28:33 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on January 01, 2010, 08:03:25 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on January 01, 2010, 08:24:00 pm
At worst, I'll put in some solid time reviewing things on Sunday.
Post by: Cheddarius on January 01, 2010, 08:29:12 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on January 01, 2010, 09:10:13 pm
ToonyMan, Webadict has been revealed town, even though you said he was definitely scum.
Hey, that doesn't count as a third vote! I started typing that before I saw Vector's post!I'm taking 'That's a wrap.' to mean that these guys are obviously scum. Now, Eduren is also town. And I know I'm town.
Scumlist:
Cheeetar, Webadict, and Eduren.
That's a wrap.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 01, 2010, 09:16:24 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on January 01, 2010, 09:17:19 pm
Just don't hide behind my wrongitude.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 01, 2010, 09:22:37 pm
Also:
You said this. Before I told you to vote for him. You were active at the time that it would have taken one vote to lynch Cobalt. And that was before I told you to vote for him.Can we lynch one of dakarian or CobaltKobold right now?
This.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 01, 2010, 09:35:21 pm
Just don't hide behind my wrongitude.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 01, 2010, 09:37:19 pm
You still think I'm scum, right?
Post by: ToonyMan on January 01, 2010, 09:44:30 pm
What you are doing is using what I've done. Every person I've said was scum turned up town, the only person left is you. You are using that like you have to be town. Which is simply not true.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 01, 2010, 09:57:59 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on January 01, 2010, 10:05:14 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on January 01, 2010, 10:05:26 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on January 01, 2010, 10:13:43 pm
Also, for not lynching scum even when you had said that they were scum and were in a position to lynch them.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 01, 2010, 10:16:54 pm
For consistently being wrong, and lynching townies. How else do you propose we find scum?
By scum hunting.
Also, for not lynching scum even when you had said that they were scum and were in a position to lynch them.
We went over this.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 02, 2010, 12:21:48 am
For consistently being wrong, and lynching townies. How else do you propose we find scum?
By scum hunting.
I am. You lynch townies. You go back on your word, so as to not lynch scum. You have been consistently wrong about everything you have said.
Yes, but you didn't explain why you weren't voting for him BEFORE I said anything, when you believed he was scum, had said so very shortly before, had even quoted Webadict saying we should lynch one of Cobalt and Dakarian and said 'This'. He was in a position to be lynched. I had not said anything to you. You were active. You believed he was scum.Also, for not lynching scum even when you had said that they were scum and were in a position to lynch them.
We went over this.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 02, 2010, 12:28:45 am
I'm scum for being wrong?For consistently being wrong, and lynching townies. How else do you propose we find scum?
By scum hunting.
I am. You lynch townies. You go back on your word, so as to not lynch scum. You have been consistently wrong about everything you have said.
I believed more than one person was scum.Yes, but you didn't explain why you weren't voting for him BEFORE I said anything, when you believed he was scum, had said so very shortly before, had even quoted Webadict saying we should lynch one of Cobalt and Dakarian and said 'This'. He was in a position to be lynched. I had not said anything to you. You were active. You believed he was scum.Also, for not lynching scum even when you had said that they were scum and were in a position to lynch them.
We went over this.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 02, 2010, 01:52:02 am
Yes, sure, you're scum for being wrong. ALL THE TIME. ABOUT EVERYTHING. IN A WAY THAT BENEFITS SCUM. You cannot just disguise yourself by saying 'It was all a mistake, I'm not scum!'.I'm scum for being wrong?For consistently being wrong, and lynching townies. How else do you propose we find scum?
By scum hunting.
I am. You lynch townies. You go back on your word, so as to not lynch scum. You have been consistently wrong about everything you have said.
Yes, but that does not explain how suddenly one scum is more preferable to lynch than another scum. You believed both were scum. You did not lynch one of the scum, because you hoped to lynch a different scum, but instead of say, telling people to vote for that scum, you chose to just kind of sit there typing in caps and hoping people thought you were scumhunting.I believed more than one person was scum.Yes, but you didn't explain why you weren't voting for him BEFORE I said anything, when you believed he was scum, had said so very shortly before, had even quoted Webadict saying we should lynch one of Cobalt and Dakarian and said 'This'. He was in a position to be lynched. I had not said anything to you. You were active. You believed he was scum.Also, for not lynching scum even when you had said that they were scum and were in a position to lynch them.
We went over this.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 02, 2010, 02:18:53 am
Post by: ToonyMan on January 02, 2010, 12:41:30 pm
Also: Did anybody else get abilities from that Spartacus thing I activated? I'm assuming everybody did, because some other guy mentioned it.
Yeah, everybody is Spartacus. At least I am.
What I really want, is ahhh OTHER PEOPLE TO POST BESIDE CHEEETAR AND ME.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 02, 2010, 12:49:14 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 02, 2010, 06:00:03 pm
I'm not going to vote on a hunch though. I promise I'll have an actual vote and target by Monday night... and we have till the seventh, so, yeah. Unless Diakron gets hammered by then, which is looking like a real possibility.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 02, 2010, 06:02:38 pm
Hehehe.
Post by: Diakron on January 02, 2010, 09:19:41 pm
Post by: Diakron on January 02, 2010, 09:22:06 pm
Your attacks always land on townies this game, and you just keep throwing up smoke until everyone agrees with you.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 02, 2010, 11:23:52 pm
Diakron is unlynchable. God dammit. Hold on a second let me post something.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 02, 2010, 11:30:58 pm
That person must have been Diakron.
Let me explain what I could have done. My role was Dave Strider when I started the game.
Each night, I could use ILL BEATS on [PLAYERNAME], which will cause them to spend the night listening to my ILL BEATS and ranting about bands nobody has ever heard of instead of doing... whatever they were meant to be doing. At any point during a day phase, I could state in a post "BRO IS ALWAYS BRO" with no other text. Until the end of the day, Bro will stop you from being lynched. You win when all scum are dead.
Diakron must have took my role Day 2 and now he can stop his freakin' lynch. He knows he's scum. When he took my role I became the RTD Player who is normal except when he is lynched a dice is rolled and these are the outcomes,
1 - You die and flip a fake Mafia role, becoming a Death Miller.
2 - You die.
3 - You investigate someone at random involved in your death (if lynched) or the person who killed you (if NKed). But you still die.
4 - You avoid death.
5 - You avoid your death and investigate whomever killed you or hammered you, being told their name and role.
6 - You avoid your death and become a Doomspeaker, ending the game with everyone else dying in 3 nights.
You win when all scum are dead unless you become a Doomspeaker.
So yeah, this was what I was until today, when I turned into Sparticus....
wait.
Diakron isn't Dave Strider anymore. He's Sparticus. Nevermind. We can lynch him. We should be able to atleast. Phew.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 02, 2010, 11:31:54 pm
Toonyman you are scum, i know it deep deep down inside, and will know for sure soon.
Your attacks always land on townies this game, and you just keep throwing up smoke until everyone agrees with you.
Also, this is band wagonning anyway. He thinks I'm scum because he really really REALLY thinks so. No, that doesn't work like that Diakron.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 02, 2010, 11:43:38 pm
Dikaron, is what ToonyMan says true? Because that blatant act of self-preservation without even any pretense of an argument... It looks really scummy. Especially since you put a vote against Toony on a hunch without any additional evidence to back it up.
If we lynched you today, and failed, and mafia killed tonight succesfully despite all the sparticuses, then we WOULD be at LYLO (I think, I tend to calculate it wrong though), and everybody would probably try to lynch you again. If you're town, it would just plain lose us the game - it only makes sense if you're scum. So I'm really beginning to think you're scum at this point.
I'm giving you a chance to defend yourself before I vote though.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 02, 2010, 11:46:45 pm
Have we lost our old roles then? At least while Sparticus? Interesting...
You make it sound like you didn't lose your role. Why is it that mostly everybody else said they did. Do the mafia not lose their role or something?
Post by: ToonyMan on January 02, 2010, 11:47:59 pm
Cheeetar
Diakron
GlyphGryph
Those are the last three scum.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 02, 2010, 11:58:29 pm
I got a message that said I am now Sparticus as my role. Reading it, I could see that meaning I lost my old role, which is why I asked - but I didn't see anything that said I lost access to previous abilities. Or anything that said we can't have more than one role. I just figured it was tacked on.
Did yours say you can't use previous abilities, then? Because if there's deviation, we should figure it out.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 03, 2010, 12:01:43 am
It appears we have gained abilities to investigate and protect one person each night, even though I'm sure this effect will go away when the day ends. Being a day effect and all.
It also says we keep our NIGHT-ACTIONS, but doesn't say DAY-ACTIONS. So Diakron can still be lynched thankfully.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 03, 2010, 12:04:49 am
This means that Diakron can't be lynched.
Let me think of a plan.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 03, 2010, 12:06:18 am
Pandarsenic, can you confirm whether are not our old roles are still in play, and to what extent?
Post by: ToonyMan on January 03, 2010, 12:09:20 am
Vote ToonyMan.
As you all know now. I am the RTD Player. Thanks for Glifglaf, who made me read Pandarsenic's note again. I still am the RTD Player, which means we can lynch me. I am very helpful dead. Unfortunately, we can't lynch Diakron. So we are going to gamble.
1 - You die and flip a fake Mafia role, becoming a Death Miller.
2 - You die.
3 - You investigate someone at random involved in your death (if lynched) or the person who killed you (if NKed). But you still die.
4 - You avoid death.
5 - You avoid your death and investigate whomever killed you or hammered you, being told their name and role.
6 - You avoid your death and become a Doomspeaker, ending the game with everyone else dying in 3 nights.
You win when all scum are dead unless you become a Doomspeaker.
I would like if you don't mind for Diakron to hammer me. If he would be so kind. That way we get the most out of it. If you don't like what you see, lynch me. Hehehe.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 03, 2010, 12:09:51 am
Pandarsenic: In the event that a rule was activated that made people spartacus, would the spartacus's lose their original abilities?
Also: I have investigate and protect as my abilities, maybe we can set up a chain of protections?
Post by: ToonyMan on January 03, 2010, 12:12:12 am
Post by: Cheeetar on January 03, 2010, 12:13:38 am
Post by: ToonyMan on January 03, 2010, 12:14:51 am
Oh wait, I forgot you've only been attacking me the whole game tunnel head.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 03, 2010, 12:18:23 am
Also: I chose Dave Strider for CYORM Webadict last time.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 03, 2010, 12:21:27 am
I'm also a little worried that always chatty Dakarian isn't being so chatty. Like he knows Diakron will block his lynch and is just voting him because I said so.
There also has been three Dave Striders so far and I've been him twice.
New scum:
Diakron
Dakarian
???
Post by: ToonyMan on January 03, 2010, 12:23:13 am
Vote Dakarian, why aren't you engaging in any conversation today besides bandwagonning?
Post by: ToonyMan on January 03, 2010, 12:25:33 am
Umm. Unvote everybody I have voted.
Vote Dakarian.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 03, 2010, 02:16:51 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 03, 2010, 02:27:19 am
Pandarsenic, can you confirm whether are not our old roles are still in play, and to what extent?
Because it's obvious what I did and you should all know it, Spartacus is a condition that is in effect in addition to your old role and FOR FUCK'S SAKE PEOPLE THEY ARE NIGHT ACTIONS QUIT TRYING TO USE THEM NOW.
That is all.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 03, 2010, 02:31:22 am
Post by: Cheeetar on January 03, 2010, 02:40:47 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 03, 2010, 05:01:52 am
Post by: Neruz on January 03, 2010, 06:24:37 am
Post by: ToonyMan on January 03, 2010, 01:17:33 pm
Don't the rules usually end the next morning?
If this is so, that would be very cool indeed. Inspections and protections ONLY help town. As far as I know.
I want three things right now.
1. More people being here.
2. Diakron to answer GlyphGryph's questions.
3. Dakarian to answer ToonyMan's question.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 03, 2010, 01:18:15 pm
Post by: Diakron on January 03, 2010, 01:39:56 pm
I don't know how i got my role so your carefully prepared plan that i "stole it from you" is BULLSHIT! if anyone stops and thinks about it they will realize that Toony is lying now to get me lynch... but what did i do? im trying to take the current information i have and see from that who is scum but the only one who throws out a scum feel to him is toony...
Also i think we all are Spartacus... Bash.org anyone??
All i really have to say here is that just because one person gives you a pack of cigs doesn't mean he's your friend.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 03, 2010, 01:49:01 pm
Please answer GlyphGryph's questions.
I'll even quote them for you.
Have we lost our old roles then? At least while Sparticus? Interesting...
Dikaron, is what ToonyMan says true? Because that blatant act of self-preservation without even any pretense of an argument... It looks really scummy. Especially since you put a vote against Toony on a hunch without any additional evidence to back it up.
If we lynched you today, and failed, and mafia killed tonight succesfully despite all the sparticuses, then we WOULD be at LYLO (I think, I tend to calculate it wrong though), and everybody would probably try to lynch you again. If you're town, it would just plain lose us the game - it only makes sense if you're scum. So I'm really beginning to think you're scum at this point.
I'm giving you a chance to defend yourself before I vote though.
Post by: Diakron on January 03, 2010, 01:57:02 pm
Panda gave use a way to figure out all the scum and protect everyone tonight so that there is a quicker game tomorrow that is what i am waiting for and anyone is welcomed to investigate me and i will make sure to investigate you Toony
Post by: ToonyMan on January 03, 2010, 01:59:21 pm
Why don't you ask Pandarsenic what your replacement did?
Post by: ToonyMan on January 03, 2010, 02:00:02 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on January 03, 2010, 03:13:47 pm
Neruz, you're dead. Stop posting.
Possibly, all scum got roleblock etc. while town got investigate and protect.
List of suspicions:
02. Cheeetar- nope
04. Dakarian- nope (The whole Meph-Dak thing makes me think neither are scum)
08. Vector-nope (voted Diakron early game, scum wouldn't risk quick-lynching their teammates)
10. Mephansteras- nope (The whole Meph-Dak thing makes me think neither are scum)
14. ToonyMan- nope (Diakron thing. I trust him on this)
19. vote RedWarrior0-yep (Lurker)
18. Diakron- yep (I believe ToonyMan, why else would he say 'BRO IS ALWAYS BRO'?)
16. Cheddarius-yep (Lurker)
05. GlyphGryph-nope (Not Lurking (hooray!))
Of course, some of those I believe are town are also lurkers, but I don't really think that matters when I believe they're town.
It's not really both or neither. It's:This is why I believe both Meph and Dak to be town. Webadict can be trusted, as he is a dead townie, and I don't think scum try these sorts of gambits to make one scum death a confirmed death for the other scum. Also I think Meph at some point told people to lynch him so we could confirm Dak, and scum wouldn't try that either.
If dak is Mafia, Meph is Mafia.
If Meph is Town, dak is Town.
If the subsequent is not listed, the consequent is undetermined.
This whole everybody having a protect and investigate thing makes me not want to set up a chain, so: Dakarian, set up a chain and stop lurking.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 03, 2010, 07:35:27 pm
I want to know why the hell noone is posting.
Post by: Cheddarius on January 03, 2010, 07:37:14 pm
Or related to Mafia at all really.
I haven't been posting very much for a while (you'll see that if you look at my posts - a few in short bursts, but only a few per day); sorry about that.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 03, 2010, 07:38:23 pm
What is this. You are lurking scum.
Post by: Cheddarius on January 03, 2010, 07:40:29 pm
Yes, I do post; and when I do post I often post a lot. But overall I don't post very much, and I apologize for that.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 03, 2010, 07:41:24 pm
whhaaatttttttt
Post by: Cheddarius on January 03, 2010, 07:44:37 pm
Look, if I were running 50 posts a day but I hardly posted here, then I'd look very scummy. But I'm not. I'm lurking everywhere (by "lurking" I don't necessarily mean "posting very little", but as I said, "posting for short times and as a result often posting little"). This is because I'm busy with some stuff, so I can't spend all my time reading the boards like I did when I was newer.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 03, 2010, 07:49:48 pm
Post by: Cheddarius on January 03, 2010, 07:54:03 pm
Again, I did not mean lurking as in not posting much, I meant lurking as in not posting for very long. In this game, you seem to be ignoring people's posts - mine, Cheeetar's - repeatedly, and often repeating the same argument over and over despite rebuttals - mostly Cheeetar here - , Toonyman. What's up with that?
Post by: ToonyMan on January 03, 2010, 07:56:09 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 03, 2010, 08:30:28 pm
Possibly, all scum got roleblock etc. while town got investigate and protect.Just curious: where did you get this idea? Nobody mentioned roleblocking as far as I'm aware.
Quote
Of course, some of those I believe are town are also lurkers, but I don't really think that matters when I believe they're town.Okay? Because you believe them to be town, any lurking doesn't matter? The only difference is that you think they are town? Why do you believe them to be town?
Quote
This whole everybody having a protect and investigate thing makes me not want to set up a chain, so: Dakarian, set up a chain and stop lurking.Why do you want to delegate it to someone else? If you want something to happen, do it.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 04, 2010, 01:14:34 am
Pandarsenic, could you please give Meph and Dakarian a prod?
Post by: dakarian on January 04, 2010, 09:45:29 am
Meanwhile, I return and see a few things very VERY wrong about the situation.
First off, Diakron = Org correct? If so then:
1. Diakron, why did you evoke yourself as unlynchable when the heat fell on you? That's self preservation to a fault.
2. Toony, are you sure that you lost your role in Day 2?
As for the rest, I'll be looking at them a little later.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 04, 2010, 02:36:50 pm
Diakron must be Dave Strider because how would he know the "BRO IS ALWAYS BRO" thing?
Also, Dakarian. You didn't answer my question.
SCUMLIST:
Diakron
Dakarian
RedWarrior
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 04, 2010, 02:38:56 pm
Quote
Replacements gained. Going purely by order of absence/replacement, GlyphGryph will be replacing SHAD0Wdump and Diakron will replace Rashilul. I will send them their roles soon and extend the night accordingly.
So no, Diakron!=Org.
Unless you meant something other than replaced, in which case I have no idea what you meant.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 04, 2010, 02:41:00 pm
Whoops. Doesn't matter though. Every post where I said Org earlier I meant Rashilul.
Post by: dakarian on January 04, 2010, 03:00:23 pm
Unvote Diakron
Rash only earned a vote on him because he was being an idiot, and that was better solved by just ditching him. Diakron... I'll still want his explanation but at least he's not my first target.
Meanwhile, I was aiming for Org to fry due to the mass of mess done earlier with stopping web from using his power.
Now Toony, you're confused it seems. You say that you menat rash when you talked about Org but...
Diakron/Org is scum. I now know why Webadict thought Org was scum. He blocked him every night when his role could completely destroy scum. There is no way ANYBODY would do that.
Org was replaced, but the matter remains the same. Diakron probably won't explain himself and whateverohgodijustrealziedwearesodead
Everybody lynch the scum Diakron.
Rash never blocked Web. Your comments about Diakron stealing your role came after your initial attack.
So... if you wanted Rash dead from the start of this day.... why?
As for the question:
Quote
Vote Dakarian, why aren't you engaging in any conversation today besides bandwagonning?
Quote
Sorry. I stepped out for the weekend. Had to attend to a few things. Besides, I wasn't giving the games the attention they needed during the holidays.
Aka. After I posted that vote on Diakron I pulled away from everything for the entire weekend. I didn't even read the matter of Broness until today.
ToonyMan you seem a little confused today.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 04, 2010, 03:09:35 pm
Diakron is DAVE STRIDER. I don't care about who Diakron replaced. This is about Diakron. Some way and in some form, Diakron took my role and you know something about it Dakarian.
I don't care if I die. I really don't. It MIGHT ACTUALLY EVEN BE HELPFUL.
BUT I'd rather have you DIE. BECAUSE YOU ARE SCUM.
Stop using MY MISTAKE on confusing Org and Rashilul. IT DOESN'T CHANGE MY ARGUMENT AT ALL. Diakron is scum. YOU AND REDWARRIOR WERE GOING TO LYNCH HIM QUICKLY AND HE WOULD BLOCK IT.
Post by: dakarian on January 04, 2010, 03:26:15 pm
You voted for Diakron because you thought he was Org and thus was the one Webadict wanted to kill.
However, when it became clear that Diakron was not Org then, instead of turning on Cheddar who IS the ex-Org you continue with Diakron, insisting that everything you said about Diakron fit for Rash.
Even though NOTHING you said fits for Rash.
Now you want me gone...because I didn't post for a few days. You claim that my vote was to cause a failed lynch even though:
1. My vote came before Diakron's Bro' comment.
2. Diakron becoming unlynchable would be as plain to see as ANYTHING since, if he stole it from you, you would know about it and thus warn the town (as proven in Day 1, the town will pull back should something like that happen)
Btw, you don't care if you die, even though if you were town, killing you would give us almost no chance of actually learning anything, and would put is in lylo at best and mylo at worst.
Now I'm going to consider the idea that it was just coincidence that you just happened to target the person who stole your power (which seems unbelievably broken if you could use it every day, especially if the scum also held a role stealing move). I do have a lingering issue with the idea that you thought Diakron was Org AND that he stole your power on Day 2 since, in truth, Org was still able to roleblock Webadict on Day 3.
You sound like you are grasping for straws, and it looks ugly. Thus why the vote is on you now.
However, the whole scene looks ugly once you include Diakron in it. As such, I will repeat to make sure Diakron sees it when he posts again:
@Diakron
Why did you make yourself unlynchable in response to ToonyMan's argument? Why make it clear as a bell that you would rather keep yourself alive than answer to ANY of the arguments (especially since you could've killed it all by just telling us you were Rash not Org) AND make it known to Toony that you have his old role?
Post by: Cheeetar on January 04, 2010, 03:28:57 pm
1. Scum could have planned this beforehand, OBVIOUSLY.
2. Because Diakron replaced Rashilul, I would assume he would not be told his original role, or who he stole what from if indeed he was informed he stole it.
I remove Cheddarius from my list of suspicions, as his lurking is semi-reasonable/believable.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 04, 2010, 03:29:19 pm
Same goes for you RedWarrior.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 04, 2010, 03:30:28 pm
Me dying has a 50% chance of outing scum.
SO IT'S NOT USELESS.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 04, 2010, 03:41:09 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on January 04, 2010, 03:42:40 pm
I literally have a 50% chance of surviving and investigating players.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 04, 2010, 04:57:40 pm
Redwarrior is scum. Lurking except when threatened, OMGUSing, his last vote was with no reasoning and was on a person who we now know to be both invincible and scum, whose lynch would waste a day and give scum a night-kill.Still Scum. First: last vote was sort of joking. That person is not invincible, just unlynchable one time. The vote was before we knew him to be "invincible", and I was not aware that voting scum was a bad thing. If you know anything about my meta, you know that I really, really, REALLY tend to lurk. See Paranormal 12. Second, the only attacks you have on me happened since you voted me, and you did not answer my question. I voted you with reason because you voted me without reason. OMGUS is voting someone because they voted you, with no other reasoning to back it up. Also, you did not "threaten" me. You voted me, then did not push it at all until I voted you. Scum.
Pandarsenic, could you please give Meph and Dakarian a prod?
Post by: ToonyMan on January 04, 2010, 05:07:11 pm
1. Don't joke in serious mafia.
2. We need to lynch scum today for a better win chance. Diakron wasted the one-time protection today.
3. You were SCUM in Paranormal 12. You LURKED to win it.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 04, 2010, 05:11:51 pm
What are you talking about?Yes, but you can die and still investigate players, which will only help if the role that can talk to the dead will speak up and confirm you. But I suppose that will probably happen.
I literally have a 50% chance of surviving and investigating players.
1. See before. Scum can co-ordinate votes beforehand, your vote on a scum who turned himself unlynchable is therefore no indicator of your townieness. Had a lynch been confirmed on him, the day would be wasted, so a vote on him would be bad. Using your meta as a defense is NOT GOOD, and probably an indicator of scum. Also: How do you know it's 1 use only? Toony didn't say anything like that.Redwarrior is scum. Lurking except when threatened, OMGUSing, his last vote was with no reasoning and was on a person who we now know to be both invincible and scum, whose lynch would waste a day and give scum a night-kill.Still Scum. First: last vote was sort of joking. That person is not invincible, just unlynchable one time. The vote was before we knew him to be "invincible", and I was not aware that voting scum was a bad thing. If you know anything about my meta, you know that I really, really, REALLY tend to lurk. See Paranormal 12. Second, the only attacks you have on me happened since you voted me, and you did not answer my question. I voted you with reason because you voted me without reason. OMGUS is voting someone because they voted you, with no other reasoning to back it up. Also, you did not "threaten" me. You voted me, then did not push it at all until I voted you. Scum.
Pandarsenic, could you please give Meph and Dakarian a prod?
2. Which question? I voted you because you were lurking, and the other lurkers and people not lurking I believe to be town. That is a reason. You voted me solely because I voted you. The rest of what you said, to the first, I assumed that because a scum investigate on alignment is next to useless and a role investigation similarly so, I did explain my reasoning on why I believed people to be town in the post in which I voted for you, and I want Dakarian to do it both so he posts more and because I suck at that sort of thing. If I were scum, I'd do it myself to ensure there was a loophole.
3. I threatened you with a vote.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 04, 2010, 05:12:35 pm
Also: In my defense Toony's post did not say anything about 1-shot specifically.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 04, 2010, 05:26:36 pm
2. I realize that. Note that this:
Quote
on a person who we now know to be both invincible and scum,makes Cheeetar look like the fact that he's scum is a reason to not lynch him.
3. I have lurked as town, too (See almost every IRC game I've been in, plus some of the earlier games I've played in). What I'm saying is that my meta says that I lurk.
PPE:
1. I thought his post DID say that ONCE, Dave can say BRO IS ALWAYS BRO.
2. You voted me because I was lurking. I understand that. Unfortunately, I don't understand what separates me from other people lurking. That you believe them to be town is the effect, not the cause. Also, where did the "scum investigate on alignment" and "role investigate" come in?
About the Toony dying thing: Did you read the roleflips? As in, the Rook is already dead?
Post by: Cheeetar on January 04, 2010, 05:34:06 pm
2. I didn't mean scum as a reason not to lynch him, but that's a given.
3. Yes, but you've lurked as scum as well, and meta isn't a defense. You are lurking now, I will vote you.
4. Noted.
5.
List of suspicions:The only person I didn't explain was Glyph, although I remove my endorsement of Vector upon thinking. Glyph, because he's active and being reasonable.
02. Cheeetar- nope
04. Dakarian- nope (The whole Meph-Dak thing makes me think neither are scum)
08. Vector-nope (voted Diakron early game, scum wouldn't risk quick-lynching their teammates)
10. Mephansteras- nope (The whole Meph-Dak thing makes me think neither are scum)
14. ToonyMan- nope (Diakron thing. I trust him on this)
19. vote RedWarrior0-yep (Lurker)
18. Diakron- yep (I believe ToonyMan, why else would he say 'BRO IS ALWAYS BRO'?)
16. Cheddarius-yep (Lurker)
05. GlyphGryph-nope (Not Lurking (hooray!))
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 04, 2010, 05:38:05 pm
Toony Thing:
Still waiting for an answer to this:What are you talking about?Yes, but you can die and still investigate players, which will only help if the role that can talk to the dead will speak up and confirm you. But I suppose that will probably happen.
I literally have a 50% chance of surviving and investigating players.
Possibly, all scum got roleblock etc. while town got investigate and protect.Just curious: where did you get this idea? Nobody mentioned roleblocking as far as I'm aware.Quote
Post by: Cheeetar on January 04, 2010, 05:59:05 pm
Still waiting for an answer to this:Possibly, all scum got roleblock etc. while town got investigate and protect.Just curious: where did you get this idea? Nobody mentioned roleblocking as far as I'm aware.to the first, I assumed that because a scum investigate on alignment is next to useless and a role investigation similarly so
Post by: Cheeetar on January 04, 2010, 05:59:37 pm
Post by: Cheddarius on January 04, 2010, 06:42:05 pm
You are still posting.Yeah. If you'll look at my posts, you'll see I was only posting for about half an hour, hour max I'm guessing.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 04, 2010, 07:03:09 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on January 04, 2010, 07:15:56 pm
I'm still reading through things at this point, but I have to object to this:
08. Vector-nope (voted Diakron early game, scum wouldn't risk quick-lynching their teammates)
Never assume that scum won't do something. Free Beer and I tried to do a quick bus on him in one of the Vote Mafias day 1 to cement me as town. It's a valid tactic, if a bit risky. And we easily won that game, despite out plans not working out quite right.
Now, I need to go back and reread more. All this player changing is mucking things up a lot.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 04, 2010, 07:28:14 pm
Post by: dakarian on January 04, 2010, 07:30:39 pm
OK OK. Well. If Rashilul had nothing to do with it.....why did you vote so easily on him because I said so? (mistakenly)
Same goes for you RedWarrior.
Because you said Diakron was Org. I was ok with Org dying due to his actions which ended up greatly helping scum. I was never after Rash. You weren't either: you were after Org who you thought was Diakron. With us realizing the mistake, I pulled off of Diakron but you are still holding on.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 04, 2010, 07:31:20 pm
And he won't explain why either.
Post by: Mephansteras on January 04, 2010, 07:37:58 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on January 04, 2010, 07:51:11 pm
Post by: Diakron on January 04, 2010, 11:59:45 pm
yes i knew it was one shot but WTF are you still attacking >ME< when someone else turned out to be the guy you where shooting for... you keep find the smallest reason and trying to overdo it... BTW who wants to know who i used ill beats on and prevented form making a NA?? Cuase i for one did not get a message saying i used it but i know i did but forgot who...
fake edit: i did indeed put turn unstoned and almost posted it that way :-\
Post by: Cheddarius on January 05, 2010, 03:03:27 am
Oh, and by the way, answer my accusations, why don't you? Interesting that I accuse you of ignoring people's arguments... and you proceed to ignore me.
And Diakron, your posts seem universally confusing and filled with vague references and jokes and curses. It seems to me you're being deliberately and maliciously confusing to confuse the town. Examples:
I don't know how i got my role so your carefully prepared plan that i "stole it from you" is BULLSHIT! if anyone stops and thinks about it they will realize that Toony is lying now to get me lynch... but what did i do? im trying to take the current information i have and see from that who is scum but the only one who throws out a scum feel to him is toony...This reads like Time Cube. It's truly ridiculous. Looking at your posts, you start off by swearing at whoever attacks you, claim that said person is scum trying to lynch you (with no real evidence), and proceed on a horrifying word salad of loosely linked claims and pleadings, ending poorly phrased, half-baked thoughts with ellipses before leaping off to an almost entirely unrelated topic.
Also i think we all are Spartacus... Bash.org anyone??Why would you ever say this? It makes no sense and the only reason I could see you saying it is to confuse people, which is scummy.
All i really have to say here is that just because one person gives you a pack of cigs doesn't mean he's your friend.This is confusing and poorly explained.
you are scum, i know it deep deep down insideThis is not a legitimate argument. You can offer evidence but not your "feelings".
yes i knew it was one shot but WTF are you still attacking >ME< when someone else turned out to be the guy you where shooting for... you keep find the smallest reason and trying to overdo it... BTW who wants to know who i used ill beats on and prevented form making a NA?? Cuase i for one did not get a message saying i used it but i know i did but forgot who...This is also confusing, filled with random topic changing and schizophasia, and in addition it has you conveniently "forgetting" who you used your power on. Might you have actually forgotten? Yeah. But in light of your actions it seems more probable you're faking it.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 05, 2010, 04:38:56 am
Post by: Vector on January 05, 2010, 08:34:12 am
Post by: dakarian on January 05, 2010, 09:34:34 am
Why was I focusing on you instead of Diakron? Because I already had my question out on him and was waiting for his reply. For now you still have a touch of trying to just get someone lynched rather than scumhunting, with the whole "I was after org.. ok no Rash" deal.
@Diakron
Quote
OR MAYBE!!! i used it to save my self deciding that i should leave no turn unstoned errr stone unturned, when it was clear i was being voted for the actions of my predecessor... how can i defend my self from that??
Want an answer to that question? This is how..
Instead of saying
Quote
Post by: dakarian on January 05, 2010, 09:55:15 am
@Diakron
You say:
Quote
OR MAYBE!!! i used it to save my self deciding that i should leave no turn unstoned errr stone unturned, when it was clear i was being voted for the actions of my predecessor... how can i defend my self from that??
Want an answer to that question? This is how...
Instead of saying:
Quote
BRO IS ALWAYS BRO
You say:
Quote
WTF are you still attacking >ME< when someone else turned out to be the guy you where shooting for
Aka: You actually EXPLAIN why the argument fails!
ALL you needed to say was that you are NOT Org but Rash. That would've ruined both Toony and my own arguments against you since we were after Org, not you but didn't know who was who. A simple mistake fixed by a simple answer.
Instead, you panicked and made yourself unkillable, thus showing that you're more interested in trying to stay alive than actually helping the town figure out what they were doing wrong. "leaving no stone unturned" in saving yourself is NOT PRO-TOWN, never is, never will be. In fact, it nearly killed you since it's easy enough for the town to just mark you dead tomorrow.
nearly killed... you trying to 'save yourself' rather than explaining yourself nearly got you killed AGAIN. The lucky shot is that I know your meta. I've seen you claim cop on day 2 just to try to save your hide..when you actually WERE a cop.
But seriously.. you wonder why you're seen as being 'always scummy'. It's the self-preservation, the 'keep alive at all costs' deal that does it.
Meh.. .just meh.
Btw, all you need to do is speak to Pandarsenic (and wait for him to return). He'll tell you everything that your character did since Day 1, including what you did but forgot. If he did and you lost it, just ask again and he'll resend it. When he returns, I'll want several things from you, since we now know your role anyway:
1. What was Rash at the start of the game.
2. When did he switch from that original role to your current one.
3. What actions were done to or from Rash/you since Day 1. Yes, that includes the ill beats.
As far as returning back to Org... *sigh* since he's now changed, we'll be able to read him again. Add to that, the fact that there's 3 scum, I know I can look for another and let a proper read on Ched go into place. However, one thing came to notice:
@cheddar
You were Org were you not? Org's power was very VERY *VERY* noticable-the mod flat out told us who he blocked, and even if he didn't block at all. As such, I have to ask:
1. Why didn't we get a message about it this day.
2. Who did you block (assuming it's not the mod just not remembering to tell his this time).
Post by: ToonyMan on January 05, 2010, 02:49:51 pm
@Toony
Why was I focusing on you instead of Diakron? Because I already had my question out on him and was waiting for his reply. For now you still have a touch of trying to just get someone lynched rather than scumhunting, with the whole "I was after org.. ok no Rash" deal.
"Diakron" was scum for blocking "Webadict" repeatably. Which actually didn't happen because I goofed. Again.
However, you and RedWarrior did something very scummy. You both voted him after I said so, even though I goofed on the wrong guy and there was no reason too. Then you lurked. You lurked lurked lurked until I was screaming for other people to show up (which hasn't happen yet). I even voted you, then oh look at this! You show up! Instead of Diakron, YOU might be the one to get lynch. Didn't have that in mind, no? You know what you do next? You vote me. Not only a OMGUS, but one that DOESN'T ANSWER ANY OF MY ARGUMENTS. AND YOU STILL HAVEN'T.
Why did you vote Diakron so quickly?
Why did you lurk just like in Paranormal thinking you can win that way?
@RedWarrior:
Why did you vote Diakron so quickly?
@Diakron:
Stop being unhelpful. I swear to god if you are actually town this game.
@Vector:
Read up quickly.
@Cheddarius:
Stop the FoS, it's annoying and scummmy.
Also, list your arguments against me please. I thought I answered them all.
@Everyone else:
Anything else I miss? WANT TO JOIN IN THE GAME??
Oh, and Dakarian is totally scum. He's voting me because I confused people up accidentally and aren't going along with his scum plan.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 05, 2010, 02:50:40 pm
Post by: dakarian on January 05, 2010, 06:50:24 pm
I 'lurked' by actually not going to the forums at all during the weekend. King of the Mafia ended on Saturday and I didn't see it until Monday.
I've been answering the same questions for some time now. You can believe they are lies but enough with claiming I didn't answer them.
Btw, if getting Diakron lynched is part of my scumplan, why would I vote for you due to you still wanting him dead AFTER the mixup? That goes against your own "going against my scumplan" ideal since the 'plan' is supposed to be getting Diakron lynched.
So, did you really do that by accident or did you attempt a bandwagon and, once it broke up, are trying to pin others to cover your own mistakes?
Post by: ToonyMan on January 05, 2010, 07:11:35 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on January 05, 2010, 07:12:04 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on January 05, 2010, 07:21:05 pm
Post by: Cheddarius on January 05, 2010, 07:45:58 pm
Stop the FoS, it's annoying and scummmy.How so (about the FoS)?
Also, list your arguments against me please. I thought I answered them all.
My argument was that you ignored people's arguments and rebuttals - I might have missed your reply, I was skimming.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 05, 2010, 08:16:00 pm
:P
Why don't you argue with me so I don't ignore you?
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 05, 2010, 08:37:20 pm
Reminder:
Diakron replaced Rashilul, Cheddarius replaced Org, GlyphGryph replaced SHAD0Wdump.
Post by: Cheddarius on January 05, 2010, 09:31:06 pm
And you also ignored Cheeetar's arguments a bunch, which I find scummy.
And just now you ignored my question:
How so (about the FoS)?
Post by: ToonyMan on January 05, 2010, 09:36:18 pm
You replaced Org by-the-way. Who was the one I was going to vote in the first place, nice job avoiding me when I voted Diakron by accident.
Post by: Diakron on January 05, 2010, 09:46:34 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on January 05, 2010, 10:21:30 pm
FoS are scummy dude. They put out suspicions without actually following them up.
Since when? A FoS can be a scum-tell in certain situations, but it is generally a null tell. Town uses them just as much as scum do.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 05, 2010, 10:30:09 pm
That leaves me primarily suspecting RedWarrior or Cheddarius. Dakarian or Cheetar is a possibility, but, I'm just not convinced.
I suppose Vector and Meph lurking doesn't reflect well on them either, but it seems Vector has a reason, and Meph has made a few small posts and said he's catching up. We have until at least Thursday, so we'll see what happens with them.
LateEdit:And he just interrupted me with a post, so he's officially out of the lurker category in my book. However, the content...
Mephansteras, you're contributions as of late have primarily been to question other players conclusions. While words of wisdom are appreciated, I find it odd that you are not following it up with questions or comments of any sort.
For now,
RedWarrior, Get in here and answer the questions made against you. I'd ask some of my own, but you've already got a couple on your head.
Pandarsenic: Can we get a vote count?
Post by: Mephansteras on January 05, 2010, 10:42:10 pm
Mephansteras, you're contributions as of late have primarily been to question other players conclusions. While words of wisdom are appreciated, I find it odd that you are not following it up with questions or comments of any sort.
Yeah, I apologize. My playing in all games has suffered a good bit lately. Maybe I'm just a bit burnt out lately.
I have a case I'll be making soon, but I have to wade through a few dozen pages of posts to gather the information for it and I still have a good bit more to do. But I'll hope to have something solid up before Thursday.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 05, 2010, 10:56:16 pm
Post by: Diakron on January 05, 2010, 11:38:29 pm
Post by: dakarian on January 05, 2010, 11:56:25 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on January 06, 2010, 12:07:28 am
@Glyph: the only questions on the table for me (as far as I remember) are why I voted for Diakron so quickly and why I voted him after toony declared him unlynchable. To the latter, this is false. To the former, it was half joking, half (often unreliable for me) intuition. Fire away.
1. Votes as jokes is not good.
2. Nobody said that (to my knowledge)
Post by: Diakron on January 06, 2010, 12:35:07 am
I believe Toony is scum because he has been instrumental in lynching every townie so far and played only supporting roles for the scum lynches
Post by: ToonyMan on January 06, 2010, 02:52:12 pm
FoS are scummy dude. They put out suspicions without actually following them up.
Since when? A FoS can be a scum-tell in certain situations, but it is generally a null tell. Town uses them just as much as scum do.
It was a scum-tell in that situation. I just feel iffy when someone hands out FoS like he's watching a game unfold and is just saying who's doing what.
Being a football announcer really not having a goal.
@Diakron:
We can wait for Pandar.
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 06, 2010, 03:50:01 pm
I will love [you] forever if [you] do the votecount for me.
For now, class... I need to get there a bit early if I want to avoid sitting on the floor.
Post by: Org on January 06, 2010, 04:26:28 pm
Post by: Diakron on January 06, 2010, 09:28:10 pm
@:Toony: apperantly you and me switch roles my ex-role is now yours howeveri don't have the name for it... so someone either has or had the power to switch roles.
i'm still hoping for the night messages from last night and all the nights before then...
Post by: dakarian on January 06, 2010, 09:33:38 pm
Post by: dakarian on January 06, 2010, 10:03:18 pm
Diakron[1]: Vector,
ToonyMan[2]: Diakron, Dakarian,
Dakarian[1]: ToonyMan,
RedWarrior0[2]: Cheeetar, GlyphGryph
Cheeetar[1]: RedWarrior0
Not Voting: Mephansteras, Cheddarius
9 alive, 5 to lynch
Meanwhile:
Alright, not so much a scan as it is a read on players..
Cheeetar - Disliked Toony being always wrong about who was scum
GlyphGryph (who was Shadow) - still getting a hang but dislikes Toony
Vector - away on RL matters
Mephansteras - away on RL matters, then active lurk
ToonyMan - Seems to be making mistakes left and right
Cheddarius (who was org) - Org's meta suggests town, Ched is throwing newtells
Diakron (who was rash) - Meta suggests town
RedWarrior0 - Bandwagon on Diakron, then an aim on cheeetar
Quirky thing to notice:
From Cheeetar:
Quote
04. Dakarian- nope (The whole Meph-Dak thing makes me think neither are scum)
Later
Quote
I also believe that Dakarian is scum, but I'm trying for a Redwarrior lynch right now, as I am even more sure in my conviction that he is scum.
unvote ToonyMan
Vote Cheeetar
So the Meph/me thing convinced you that I was town, but Toony convinced you that I'm scum, and with nothing sent to me to determine either in the meanwhile.
Trying to look like 'one of the team' going after the 'clear scum' eh? Beats trying to appear town by scumhunting, especially since everyone LOOKS town.
Also Red has a point: how DID you get this idea?
Quote
Possibly, all scum got roleblock etc. while town got investigate and protect.
No one mentioned anything about a roleblock
Post by: Cheeetar on January 06, 2010, 10:38:56 pm
Scumlist:
Dakarian
Redwarrior0
Diakron
That's a wrap (probably). Expect Diakron to vote me next.
Dakarian, your accusations on me are very weak. To the first: I changed my mind. There's a probablity that you're a godfather/similar type, and investigations on you turn up town, which would have confused Meph, and Toony's accusations of you make sense, and I can trust them as I believe him town after he exposed Diakron as scum. Are you going after me for reacting to the game and not tunneling?
To the second: Are you serious? I said 'possibly'. Investigations are near useless to scum, and protects for scum would be pretty overpowered, as they could just each protect each other.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 06, 2010, 10:40:53 pm
Post by: dakarian on January 07, 2010, 01:39:17 am
1. that I didn't post for a while and
2. that I voted for Diakron rather quickly.
So if you combine your belief that diakron was scum then it suggests that you believe in Toony's "quicklynch+BRO to ruin the lynch technique".
The problem is, how in the Sam Hey would that help me in lylo when the town tears me apart for it? Wouldn't it have been smarter to NOT bandwagon my 'partner' and instead save it for lylo itself?
As for the argument over Diakron, he didn't post about his own meta. He just said that he's trying to save his own hide. I'm the one that brought up that his town meta includes 'saving his own hide' in it.
Btw, instead of using a conversation that you wanted to occur, mind using quotes of the discussion? If, indeed, that conversation took place the way YOU say it did, you could bring up the quotes to it rather than pull it from your backside.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 07, 2010, 07:47:35 am
Redwarrior is scum. Lurking except when threatened, OMGUSing, his last vote was with no reasoning and was on a person who we now know to be both invincible and scum, whose lynch would waste a day and give scum a night-kill.If you know anything about my meta, you know that I really, really, REALLY tend to lurk. See Paranormal 12.
Pandarsenic, could you please give Meph and Dakarian a prod?
3. You were SCUM in Paranormal 12. You LURKED to win it.
3. I have lurked as town, too (See almost every IRC game I've been in, plus some of the earlier games I've played in). What I'm saying is that my meta says that I lurk.
If I remember correctly, the general consensus was to lynch Diakron. You voting for him would make you look town, and then Diakron could use his lynch-blocker, Diakron would be 'lynched' and the day wasted, another scum kill for the night. The next day, Diakron could make up stuff about how he just wanted to protect himself, you could say 'he's town I believe him' as you have now that we are questioning why Diakron activated his ability, and Diakron wouldn't be under much fire for activating the ability.
Post by: dakarian on January 07, 2010, 09:21:47 am
What's more, what would be the point? A full scumteam with a scumchat would've known who Diakron replaced. "I'm not Org" would've been MORE than enough to kill suspicion on him coming from ANY of them. Meanwhile, evoke BRO now, instead of lylo where a failed lynch would've WON THE GAME!?
So instead of NOT doing a bandwagon and just saying one small phrase to kill Toonyman's argument cold, then holding it until Lylo, perhaps killing Toony the night before so he couldn't talk, then at lylo, starting a bandwagon and having Diakron evoke Bro and then hammer himself...
You would have me believe that I'd RATHER join a bandwagon, have Diakron sit in L-1 for 9 hours, evoke BRO only a few hours after ToonyMan posted, then hope for a player to hammer BEFORE Toony tells everyone what's going on, risking:
- the plan to be noticed and thus lost forever
- the hammer to fall before BRO was activated, thus killing him
- someone else to spot that Diakron was not Org and, thus, killing the bandwagon
- the town not believing me and getting me and Diakron lynched
I'd MUCH rather do the second plan then the "win at lylo" plan. Don't you think?
Complete sidenote: In Day 2.. why did you evoke KWN?
Post by: ToonyMan on January 07, 2010, 02:42:27 pm
The problem is, how in the Sam Hey would that help me in lylo when the town tears me apart for it? Wouldn't it have been smarter to NOT bandwagon my 'partner' and instead save it for lylo itself?
That's called WIFOM Dakarian.
Scum move man.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 07, 2010, 03:03:07 pm
1. Diakron had 4 votes on him for about 9 hours before he evoked BRO (note the time between RedWarrior's post and Diakron's). Also include the fact that GlyphGryph posted in between. All it would take is one vote in between that time to lynch him. Sort of a BIG GAMBLE to fling isn't it?'Now, if I were scum (but I'm not saying I am)'
What's more, what would be the point? A full scumteam with a scumchat would've known who Diakron replaced. "I'm not Org" would've been MORE than enough to kill suspicion on him coming from ANY of them. Meanwhile, evoke BRO now, instead of lylo where a failed lynch would've WON THE GAME!?
So instead of NOT doing a bandwagon and just saying one small phrase to kill Toonyman's argument cold, then holding it until Lylo, perhaps killing Toony the night before so he couldn't talk, then at lylo, starting a bandwagon and having Diakron evoke Bro and then hammer himself...
You would have me believe that I'd RATHER join a bandwagon, have Diakron sit in L-1 for 9 hours, evoke BRO only a few hours after ToonyMan posted, then hope for a player to hammer BEFORE Toony tells everyone what's going on, risking:
- the plan to be noticed and thus lost forever
- the hammer to fall before BRO was activated, thus killing him
- someone else to spot that Diakron was not Org and, thus, killing the bandwagon
- the town not believing me and getting me and Diakron lynched
I'd MUCH rather do the second plan then the "win at lylo" plan. Don't you think?
Complete sidenote: In Day 2.. why did you evoke KWN?
Day 2: I was hoping it would Kill Webadict.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 07, 2010, 03:04:57 pm
It's best we get a lynch before the day ends, so can we get one on someone who we all agree is scum?
(The day ends when Pandarsenic gets his laptop back, right?)
Post by: Cheeetar on January 07, 2010, 03:18:14 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 07, 2010, 04:51:01 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on January 07, 2010, 05:09:59 pm
Day Ends no sooner than 11 PM Jan 7.
Post by: Mephansteras on January 07, 2010, 05:54:30 pm
Otherwise, Cheeetar and ToonyMan are both bugging me, and have been for the past few game days. I keep waffling back and forth on which is scum, though.
For now, I'm going to go with ToonyMan. So far you've been instrumental in killing off quite a few townies, and as Cheeetar pointed out you had a great chance to hammer Cobalt (whom you had stated was scum) but chose not to because you were 'focusing on someone else'. Since when do you pass up a chance to lynch scum to vote for scum that isn't in danger of being lynched?
Yes, I know your argument keeps being "So I was wrong, how is that scummy?". Problem is, you just as easily be scum laughing at us as town simply making mistakes. So I'm going to have to go with you being scum and unwilling to hammer a scum buddy.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 07, 2010, 06:04:03 pm
Congratulations.
Post by: Mephansteras on January 07, 2010, 06:07:00 pm
You've restated what's been said fifty times.
Congratulations.
Eh, think of it as a recap. Besides, it still helps to state why I'm voting even if that particular bit of evidence isn't new.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 07, 2010, 06:09:28 pm
Post by: dakarian on January 07, 2010, 06:10:24 pm
So if your entire case against me is a theory you made up then YES, I'm going to debate Theory on Theory, Wine on Wine. Once you have arguments based on what ACTUALLY happened instead of trying to not only guess the entire scumteam but also their big plan then we can get into a proper argument.
As for RedWarrior and he claim of being lurky, he effectively Nulled his defense since he's not only aware of his town meta but, by knowledge of Para 12, he actively manipulates his scum play to take advantage of it.
Meanwhile:
I dislike the context of that. When I went back to Day 2, you basically said "well, let's just do what it says" then went to vote on Web. Instead of trying to prove that he was scum on Day 2, you evoked your power then tried to ride it out as if you had nothing to do it with it.
So, why did you feel so strongly in killing Webadict that you were willing to manipulate and trick the town into doing just that?
@Meph
Did you just vote on Toonyman based PURELY on what the person you also felt was scum said? Did you also add a bit of WIFOM to the end (Yes, you could be town doing it.. BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT US TO THINK So YOU COULD BE SCUM!)?
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 07, 2010, 06:11:17 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on January 07, 2010, 06:13:46 pm
Oh yeah, Cheeetar: Only if you hammer me.Unvote.
What the hell is this RedWarrior?
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 07, 2010, 06:14:11 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on January 07, 2010, 06:14:47 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on January 07, 2010, 06:15:36 pm
@Meph
Did you just vote on Toonyman based PURELY on what the person you also felt was scum said? Did you also add a bit of WIFOM to the end (Yes, you could be town doing it.. BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT US TO THINK So YOU COULD BE SCUM!)?
It's an argument that Cheeetar brought up in detail a while back, with quotes to prove it. I decided not to bother throwing up yet another WoT full of quotes. Whether or not Cheeetar is scum, Toony's actions stand.
And I'm not trying to add in WIFOM, I'm countering Toony's argument that being wrong doesn't make him scum. His argument itself is WIFOM, and I was just stating that I'm ignoring the WIFOM and going by what has happened and not getting caught up in an endless loop of why.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 07, 2010, 06:17:07 pm
You are countering my argument with WIFOM good sir.
Post by: Diakron on January 07, 2010, 09:21:50 pm
toony has 2
as does redwarrior0
i am still trting to figure out who i roleblocked last night :( anyone want to fess up to being blocked? (if they can it say that they don't remember anything)
Post by: dakarian on January 07, 2010, 09:23:33 pm
So no need to keep guessing.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 07, 2010, 10:36:38 pm
Post by: Cheddarius on January 07, 2010, 10:38:48 pm
...But he can't kill you if he's dead. So we only win if he really is scum.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 07, 2010, 10:40:36 pm
Post by: Cheddarius on January 07, 2010, 10:42:21 pm
Post by: Vector on January 07, 2010, 11:25:37 pm
Unvote Diakron, for obvious reasons.
I don't like RedWarrior0's bluff, nor the part where he only shows up upon getting called out. He's lurked the entire game without really scumhunting, and I think it's enough. I don't want to screw with him at lylo.
If Cheeetar actually dies from this, we'll also be able to get a good amount of information on other players--esp. ToonyMan (who has been confusing me in his dynamics with Diakron).
RedWarrior0.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 07, 2010, 11:34:27 pm
Figured I'd answer the 3-word question though - I have no idea, I'll have to send Panda a message and try to get my back-messages as well. Hopefully its mentioned in there.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 08, 2010, 02:47:21 pm
More town alive the better.
Post by: Mephansteras on January 08, 2010, 02:50:25 pm
Figured I'd answer the 3-word question though - I have no idea, I'll have to send Panda a message and try to get my back-messages as well. Hopefully its mentioned in there.
Hmmm. Looks like we're waiting on a lot of info from Panda. Hopefully he'll have time to get caught up on all this over the weekend.
Post by: dakarian on January 08, 2010, 03:20:10 pm
Btw, there's a very VERY nasty aspect to using a possible SuperSaint:
9 Alive, 3 Scum
If two townies die and one is nightkilled, it'll be 6 alive 3 scum, Game Ends.
If we really are going to test the bluff on the SuperSaint, then this day is effectively Lylo.
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 08, 2010, 03:24:18 pm
Post by: Diakron on January 08, 2010, 09:54:55 pm
Post by: Org on January 08, 2010, 10:01:29 pm
Post by: Cheddarius on January 08, 2010, 10:15:43 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on January 08, 2010, 10:18:10 pm
Post by: Org on January 08, 2010, 10:23:09 pm
Post by: Vector on January 08, 2010, 10:23:40 pm
I dont like when my laptop has babies.
LEAVE THREAD ORGABUDDY
Post by: dakarian on January 08, 2010, 11:49:10 pm
That leaves us with this:
ToonyMan[2]: Diakron, Mephansteras,
Dakarian[1]: ToonyMan,
RedWarrior0[3]: Cheeetar, GlyphGryph, Vector,
Cheeetar[2]: RedWarrior0, Dakarian,
Not Voting: Cheddarius
9 alive, 5 to lynch
Meh, that DOES make it lylo. We can't save him until lylo since, unless BOTH are scum, the game will end.
Very well. If it's lylo, then let's work it as such.
Unvote Cheeetar
Vote RedWarrior0
So, we're calling the bluff on Red and Cheeetar?
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 09, 2010, 12:02:37 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 09, 2010, 12:33:30 am
Post by: Cheddarius on January 09, 2010, 12:36:14 am
I smell inconsistency.
You claimed that you'll kill whoever hammers you, so wouldn't you kill any scum who hammered?
Post by: dakarian on January 09, 2010, 03:04:21 am
And at the moment, Cheeetar's the only one I want to swing that hammer. Otherwise, it'll be just lynching him the regular way.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 09, 2010, 05:57:45 am
Post by: Cheeetar on January 09, 2010, 06:31:22 am
Cheeetar, unvote. Now. Unless you're scum and want a townie to die from this.Panicking, scum?
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 09, 2010, 06:55:02 am
Pandarsenic, can I designate myself as the hammer?Newp.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 09, 2010, 06:56:54 am
Post by: dakarian on January 09, 2010, 10:46:30 am
Post by: Diakron on January 09, 2010, 12:36:02 pm
Vote Redwarrior0
that should be the vote that was needed right...
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 09, 2010, 12:39:08 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on January 09, 2010, 01:07:33 pm
Vote RedWarrior.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 09, 2010, 01:23:23 pm
Vote RedWarrior0 if that matters.
Post by: Cheddarius on January 09, 2010, 02:43:34 pm
So much drama
Toony, I gotta say, that wasn't very nice. Most of the people (who are presumably mostly town) wanted Cheeetar to hammer, that way it'd be a win-win. This way it's a win-50%-win. It's... it's sort of selfish, doing what you think is best over what the general populace does.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 09, 2010, 02:45:14 pm
2. RedWarrior never did what he said he would.
Post by: Cheddarius on January 09, 2010, 03:18:27 pm
2. wut
Post by: ToonyMan on January 09, 2010, 03:29:09 pm
2.
Cheeetar, unvote. Now. Unless you're scum and want a townie to die from this.He went offline after this and hasn't returned yet.
Hey aren't you the one that says he lurks?
Post by: ToonyMan on January 09, 2010, 03:29:57 pm
Might I be allowed to complete my claim before the hammer?
Correction.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on January 09, 2010, 04:16:15 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on January 09, 2010, 04:44:36 pm
Why were asking questions when you were -1 to lynch?!
You don't do that man.
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 09, 2010, 08:29:51 pm
Now y'all best shut yer mouths while I type up what happens.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 09, 2010, 08:53:40 pm
Oh, right, Dakarian.
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 09, 2010, 09:00:33 pm
"Those are needles! I'm a freakin' pine tree!" RedWarrior0 protests. "A tree!"
"Then it's fitting that I kill you with an axe!" Toony replies, swinging it into RedWarrior0's side. RedWarrior0 cries out with his unusually functional tree-vocal-cords.
"I'll take you with me, you monster! I produce oxygen and fight damage to the ozone layer! What do you do for the planet?" RedWarrior0 declares angrily as Toony swings the axe into RedWarrior0's side, delivering the final blow. RedWarrior0's trunk ruptures and he falls atop ToonyMan, who in his shock at his terrible crime is unable to bring himself to move. RedWarrior0 now lacks his roots, so he is essentially dead, but Toony has been crushed beneath his wooden form.
Quote from: RedWarrior0
Tree - SURVIVOR
You're a Tree. You specialize in the ancient art of Arboreal Boxing, and will punch out the first person who attempts to nightkill you. While they're unconscious, you will check their identity and alignment. You are a Survivor. If you are lynched, the person who hammered you will realize the damage he has done to the environment by killing you and commit suicide. You win if you are alive when the game ends.
ToonyMan, however - no wonder he hammered RedWarrior0, he must have been attracted to the green needles!
Quote
Mayor of Can Town - MAFIA
MAFIA MEMBER. You are the Mayor of Can Town. Your beloved town is in danger. Luckily, you have been approached by several Nice Men who will help you defend it. You may send one of your Can Agents on a mission each night. They will lay down their lives in their final service to their town. Each Agent is/has a one-shot ability.
Agent Corn: Agent Corn can make any player he is fed to immune to any interference with his actions that night; all redirects, roleblocks, bussing, etc., will be ignored by him.
Agent Peas: Agent Peas can spill his contents across the ground. Because the peas he contains are frozen, the person he interacts with will be tripped (roleblocked) if they attempt to leave their house.
Citizen Tab: Citizen Tab is a brave can, with absolute devotion to Can Town. If needed, he will lay down his life in a furious attack that will kill his target and anyone who interacts with his target directly. But not beyond that. I learned my lesson. He will likely lose his life in the process, however.
Deploying Citizen Tab is a variant of the MAFIAKILL action. The rest are not. The mafia partners are [REDACTED]. You win when it is no longer possible for town to win. The Mafia Chat is at [Redacted]
Night lasts until 11 PM Pacific Monday. Also, fuck Plesioth.
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 12, 2010, 08:00:17 pm
Quote
Dave Strider
Wow. You're pretty cool. You can, each night, use ILL BEATS on [PLAYERNAME], which will cause them to spend the night listening to your ILL BEATS and ranting about bands nobody has ever heard of instead of doing... whatever they meant to be doing. At any point during a day phase, you may state in a post "BRO IS ALWAYS BRO" with no other text. Until the end of the day, Bro will stop you from being lynched. You win when all scum are dead.
OZYMANDIAS RULE IS IN EFFECT.
Check your inboxes.
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 12, 2010, 08:01:10 pm
Eh heh, whoops, good thing I checked that.
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 12, 2010, 11:43:16 pm
HAIL, KING DAKARIAN!
HAIL, KING DAKARIAN!
King Dakarian, King of Kings, has one vote.
The remaining players have 0 votes.
Therefore, requirement is 1 vote to hammer.
No lynch immunities do not work against a King of Kings.
Spartacus Rule is no longer in effect.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 12, 2010, 11:47:15 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on January 12, 2010, 11:54:02 pm
Post by: Vector on January 13, 2010, 03:27:09 am
Also: Did anybody find scum in their investigations? My investigation/protection of Dakarian was blocked, but I'm pretty sure he's town.
Yup. Cheddarius is scum.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 13, 2010, 04:33:39 am
Post by: Vector on January 13, 2010, 04:39:43 am
That was the result of your investigation? If so, why didn't you vote him immediately?
...
What are you talking about? I don't have a vote, and the thread was locked until recently.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 13, 2010, 04:41:49 am
Post by: Cheeetar on January 13, 2010, 04:57:00 am
Post by: Vector on January 13, 2010, 05:04:50 am
Or, Dakarian could just straight out lynch Cheddarius and if he isn't town then we lynch Vector tommorow.
I'm vaguely confused. Is there some reason why you want to lynch me if Cheddarius flips scum?
Post by: Cheeetar on January 13, 2010, 05:49:27 am
Post by: Cheeetar on January 13, 2010, 05:49:58 am
Post by: Mephansteras on January 13, 2010, 11:12:24 am
I was a dingbat and completely forgot I had an investigation (I'm used to having no night actions this game), so I don't have any results.
dak, what are your thoughts?
Post by: ToonyMan on January 13, 2010, 12:33:05 pm
Well, bah.
That's all I'm saying.
Post by: dakarian on January 13, 2010, 01:37:13 pm
To clear the air, though, I used my investigation and found Cheeetar as town, which makes me wonder quite heavily about Vector.
Chedd.. last thought I had on that was about Org.. I'm still thinking, right now, of going by my theory and saying that Org was town.
That sort of eliminates things.
A question to Meph: You didn't have a night role? How does your role work again?
Post by: Mephansteras on January 13, 2010, 01:50:35 pm
Are you sure we want to bet on a no-lynch? If you're town, I'm town, and Cheeetar is town, then 2 of Cheddarius, GlyphGryph, and Vector must be scum. If you;re thinking Chedd is town, then we just lynch one of the other two.
Maybe GlyphGryph, since she's not involved in the Chedd/Vector situation.
Post by: dakarian on January 13, 2010, 02:30:06 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 13, 2010, 03:50:12 pm
I got a scum result on Meph.
Also:
I'm pretty much 100% sure dakarian is town now. Since this is MYLO, if he wasn't it he would have already killed a townie and mafia would have won the game.
Third:
Supposedly there is some situation where if dakarian is town, Meph is town? If so, I can't make any sense of my investigation. So either a) something happened to my investigation or b)whoever claimed that was wrong, or probably most likely c)I've got no idea what I'm talking about and such a claim was never made.
Post by: Mephansteras on January 13, 2010, 03:52:55 pm
Interesting that you're claiming you got a 'mafia' claim on me right after I suggest lynching you, though.
Post by: Vector on January 13, 2010, 03:53:17 pm
Third:
Supposedly there is some situation where if dakarian is town, Meph is town? If so, I can't make any sense of my investigation. So either a) something happened to my investigation or b)whoever claimed that was wrong, or probably most likely c)I've got no idea what I'm talking about and such a claim was never made.
No, it was actually the converse (i.e. Meph is town -> Dakarian is town). That Dakarian is town and Meph is scum is unlikely, but I guess it's possible.
Post by: Mephansteras on January 13, 2010, 03:54:58 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 13, 2010, 04:05:02 pm
So, Meph, how exactly does your investigation work? You said its a day action: does that mean you could investigate right now? Or was it just a one-off? (I know, I know, I should probably already know this because it was said in the thread somewhere)
Post by: Mephansteras on January 13, 2010, 04:16:24 pm
I posted when I could post. I shouldn't even be posting now, actually, but whatever. Its interesting that you conveniently "forgot" to investigate, and thus couldn't have your investigation refuted by anyone else, don't you think? Especially when we're at a kind of important part of the game?
So, Meph, how exactly does your investigation work? You said its a day action: does that mean you could investigate right now? Or was it just a one-off? (I know, I know, I should probably already know this because it was said in the thread somewhere)
Actually, if I was scum it'd have been easier to relate an 'investigation' on someone, since I'd know who was town and who wasn't.
Anyway, my ability let's me look at a character who died the night before or during the day and investigate the alignment of the person that killed them. So, generally worthless for most of this game because we've only ever had single night-kills occur. The one time it has proven useful was dakarian's day kill, since I could immediately check to see if he was town.
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 13, 2010, 08:22:57 pm
LOL
Not Voting: Dakarian
Post by: Cheeetar on January 13, 2010, 10:56:24 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on January 13, 2010, 10:56:58 pm
Post by: Vector on January 13, 2010, 11:01:52 pm
MYLO?
... Huh? What's the question?
Post by: Cheeetar on January 13, 2010, 11:03:30 pm
Post by: Vector on January 13, 2010, 11:13:09 pm
What is MYLO?
Mislynch and lose. I.e., no-lynch is okay, but a mislynch will kill us.
Since the situation seems to have become painfully unclear, I'm personally thinking a no-lynch might improve our chances.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 13, 2010, 11:20:53 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on January 13, 2010, 11:21:19 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 14, 2010, 12:31:48 am
Post by: Cheeetar on January 14, 2010, 03:49:19 am
Post by: Vector on January 14, 2010, 04:01:55 am
Can we be sure that Leafsnail converted someone?
I don't think we can be certain, but it's the assumption we've been using. It's better if he didn't convert anybody, of course, but as long as we don't know it's best to assume that he did.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 14, 2010, 04:21:14 am
Post by: Vector on January 14, 2010, 04:23:30 am
So there is the possibility that both Cheddarius and Meph are scum.
It's possible, yes.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 14, 2010, 06:42:41 am
Post by: dakarian on January 14, 2010, 06:57:43 am
Sidenote: I think he needs a prod :/
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 14, 2010, 07:00:56 am
Post by: dakarian on January 14, 2010, 08:12:45 am
Meaning he's lurking and either sending PMs or using QuickTopic.
That locks Ched as scum in my mind. The only question left is Meph or Glyph.
@Glyph
Mind if I ask your role at this point?
Post by: Cheeetar on January 14, 2010, 08:44:11 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 14, 2010, 09:44:20 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 14, 2010, 10:01:03 am
I'm a psychotic bus driver that drives a clown car. I can exchange two people as a night action, and I win when all scum are dead.
And no, I didn't swap anyone last night. I didn't want to get in the way of any investigations.
I've got no idea who was swapped by me before I took over the role, Panda hasn't sent me those, but I know its a role that definitely could have caused confusion with early investigations.
I've only swapped once, and that was Meph and Org (now Cheddarius) Night 4 hoping that scum would try to kill Meph (assuming he was town, which I thought was sort of semi-confirmed) and end up, maybe, killing one of their own (assuming Org was scum, mostly because of the webaddict blocking).
It means if anyone did any night actions against Org/Meph that night, though, you ended up hitting the other if that helps at all.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 14, 2010, 10:10:41 am
Post by: dakarian on January 14, 2010, 11:08:05 am
Why in the world would a psychotic bus driver that drives a clown car start off with a 3 word speech impediment?
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 14, 2010, 11:27:35 am
Either way, it says nothing about a three word speech impediment, and I haven't heard anything from Panda about it. I'm sending him another message now.
Post by: dakarian on January 14, 2010, 12:23:43 pm
What's more, you already knew that the 3-word deal was a part of your role when you came in. If it wasn't a part of your role PM wouldn't that have been the first question you would send to the host?
And if you had sent it and didn't get a response, wouldn't it make sense to bring that up when I asked about your role just now?
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 14, 2010, 12:47:09 pm
When he sent me the role, it was a quoted paragraph and "here's your full role". It does even technically say I'm town, it just said I win when all all scum are dead. So I know it wasn't the entire thing, and I don't know why he didn't send me the entire thing. I only know I'm town because his initial message said so (the win condition implies town, of course).
I figured if it wasn't part of my role pm, it didn't matter. And I sent him the pm later asking for full back details, so I figured he'd let me know eventually. As of this post he still hasn't.
As to the last question, you asked about my role, I looked at my role pm, and then I told you what it said. Why would I even think the mention the 3-word thing when it isn't in my pm? I can't tell you what I don't know.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 14, 2010, 05:52:03 pm
Post by: dakarian on January 14, 2010, 06:33:09 pm
May I ask if there are any requests still waiting answers?
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 14, 2010, 07:06:15 pm
Do not take this to mean anything; I check PMs before I check threads.
Post by: Cheddarius on January 14, 2010, 07:59:41 pm
The only thing I really have to contribute is that I inspected Mephansteras and he turned up town.
Post by: Vector on January 14, 2010, 08:09:56 pm
Okay, I have no idea what's going on.
The only thing I really have to contribute is that I inspected Mephansteras and he turned up town.
Never mind about the no-lynch. He's lurking, playing confused, and making a stupid attempt at screening his partner... plus there was all that shit with the weird role-blocking Org did earlier.
Lynch him today. We can figure out what's happening with Meph and GlyphGryph tomorrow, but the obvscum dies now.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 14, 2010, 08:29:03 pm
And there were no IMs sent, apparently. (at least his mention didn't mention any)
Post by: Cheddarius on January 14, 2010, 08:40:42 pm
Post by: dakarian on January 14, 2010, 09:33:02 pm
Do or die.
Vote Cheddarius
Post by: Mephansteras on January 14, 2010, 09:47:20 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 14, 2010, 10:39:01 pm
"Enough of this."
The town suddenly jumps. The shot was abrupt, shattering the perfect tension.
"You idiot Heretic King, I'll not die so easily! For the emprah!" He attempts to step on Dakarian. Dakarian grabs a sword that was not present before and lets out the roar of a madman as he scales
MAFIA MEMBER. Jesus fucking Christ, you're huge. You're... really huge. Any action you take will be announced to anyone because they can't help but see you. You have the power to STARE INTIMIDATINGLY at someone. They will be so intimidated they cannot take any action that night. Your other ability is to STEP ON [PLAYERNAME], which will kill that player. In fact, you will stomp them so thoroughly you will kill them two times. This is a variant of the MAFIAKILL action. The mafia partners are SEXY MOTHERS. You win when it is no longer possible for town to win. The Mafia Chat is at YERMOM
"This battle is not yet lost," Dakarian declares, throwing his crown down upon
Ozymandias rule is no longer in effect.
Dakarian is no longer King of Kings.
Night ends no sooner than 11PM Pacific Saturday.
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 15, 2010, 09:28:06 pm
Shenanigans Rule is now in effect.
"That won't help you," Vector points out. He pulls out a switchblade. Which is odd, because he's a Potted Plant. Psychotic Clown GlyphGryph pulls out a knife as well.
"We vote to No Lynch. That hammers it. Game over, townies."
Dead: http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/wpeRTNYkZkUfy
Mafia: http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/Z7BADzmY3cevm
Full true original role list and actions:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Karma is noted in first post.
Post by: Leafsnail on January 15, 2010, 09:33:09 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on January 15, 2010, 09:34:36 pm
Post by: Cheddarius on January 15, 2010, 09:36:00 pm
Post by: Zai on January 15, 2010, 09:42:23 pm
But I had attempted to sow chaos after I died. Didn't work 'cause EK died right after.
AND I WON THIS GAME FIRST. HA.
Post by: Leafsnail on January 15, 2010, 09:43:18 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 15, 2010, 09:46:37 pm
And town? I warned you. I fuck warned you several times, you would have opportunities to SCREW YOURSELF over. And you took several of them.
Day 1 you lynched the Jester.
Successive days you IGNORED ORG BLOCKING THE UBERCOP OVER AND OVER which alone was enough to cement how much you deserved to lose.
Then you lynched the survivor who is NK immune - the survivor designed SPECIFICALLY to be as pro-town as a survivor CAN be.
You fell for the RTD Player role's Death Miller thing despite that he had warned you several times and that he would NEVER choose the Mayor of Can Town.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 15, 2010, 09:47:37 pm
Post by: Vector on January 15, 2010, 09:48:38 pm
Well, anyway. Here ends an epic game :D
Post by: Zai on January 15, 2010, 09:49:05 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on January 15, 2010, 09:51:09 pm
Actually, the main thing, in my opinion, was the fact that Citizen Tab appeared to have remained unused.
I think the mafia also made quite a few mistakes though -
- Forgetting about SHADOWdump's fake 3 word restriction, and getting caught over it
- Not considering the possibility of non-sane inspections on Spartacus - inspecting each other could've helped
- Blocking webadict again and again instead of just taking him out
- Blatant shielding from Vector towards the end
- Claim messup that lead to CK's lynch
- Leaving some hints as to who my scumbuddies were from my day 1 behaviour
But most of these things happened to late to make a real impact on the course of the game. And Envy didn't die, making it ok. Thank's Glyph.
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 15, 2010, 10:05:51 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on January 15, 2010, 10:07:35 pm
Post by: Vector on January 15, 2010, 10:14:16 pm
Oh, and you all went against Webadict's VERY good suggestion to massclaim. I am honestly confident that would've broken the scum.
Yeah, it would've. I still don't really know how to fakeclaim well >_>
I feel like, at the end, the real problem was that everyone was just too tired. The scum made rookie mistakes; the town made rookie mistakes; we were in general just exhausted and couldn't catch anything anymore.
The other massive error we made was failure to save Leafsnail's takeover for later. It could have been quite useful in conjunction with the plantlaser.
Ah, well... we won, and I suppose that's what matters.
Post by: Leafsnail on January 15, 2010, 10:20:43 pm
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on January 15, 2010, 10:26:48 pm
Guys, guys.
Org is scum.
16. Org - Dramatic entrance on page 19: 'YO GUYS I'M MEGA AWESOME^10000 I WATCHED SOME FIREFLY IT'S PRETTY COOL NOW BYE' -> 'leaf is pretty weird guys' -> vote Neruz. 'Neruz, bandwagoning is bad.' (LOLWUT, Org, you're the fourth person to vote him)
This is from my widescan on page 28.
Here's the post:Well, i have to side with Webadict here. It seems Leaf is acting a bit weird(or Kriby is).
Now, either we can assume:
Org genuinely took webadict's arguments to heart and sided with him,
OR
Org knew that Leaf was scum. Org wants to do two things: draw attention away from himself ("Hey guys! I said that he was acting strangely! Thus I can't be his partner) in case of a lynch, AND he also wants to not seem like he's avoiding Leafsnail completely.
I'm pretty sure this is an Org scumtell. He did it in web's BYOR, too. I'm not sure what page, but he randomly started telling me to 'start posting more'. Coincidentally, he was my scumbuddy.
I'm leaving my vote on Neruz because I want a lynch today, but Org is next on my list.
Woo, Org meta-success?
I called it, you guys! Two months ago!
Org was scum!! I bet you regret ignoring my brilliant deduction now, eh?!
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 15, 2010, 10:33:44 pm
Post by: Vector on January 15, 2010, 10:34:51 pm
Or ignoring Webadict's "He's blocking the claimed Ubercop over and over"?
Yeah, that was pretty classic. That's actually why I bussed Cheddarius at the end--I thought it was too obvious after all that.
Apparently not >_>
Post by: ToonyMan on January 15, 2010, 11:17:33 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 15, 2010, 11:28:37 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 15, 2010, 11:30:00 pm
But yeah.
Post by: dakarian on January 16, 2010, 01:10:19 am
1. I'll never deem "Org being Org" as a town tell again.
2. Day 2 was the point of reckoning for the town I believe. We were burned out then and, after that, it was too late to recover.
3. The third parties REALLY messed us up. Jester took the first lynch, Lyncher stopped the Org bandwagon, then the supersaint survivor sealed the deal.
Oh, and Vector is too dangerous as scum. He seriously bussed TWO of his scummates?!
Post by: Mephansteras on January 16, 2010, 01:36:41 am
And my role ended up being much less useful then I'd have hoped. Odd that with this many odd roles we only had 1 day-kill and no nights with more then 1 kill.
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 16, 2010, 02:05:09 am
Post by: Mr.Person on January 16, 2010, 02:54:18 am
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 16, 2010, 02:57:58 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on January 16, 2010, 03:41:34 am
Whereas I had my credible role before I knew I was scum.Oh, and you all went against Webadict's VERY good suggestion to massclaim. I am honestly confident that would've broken the scum.
Yeah, it would've. I still don't really know how to fakeclaim well >_>
Um, which claim messup was that leafy?
Oh, and you all went against Webadict's VERY good suggestion to massclaim. I am honestly confident that would've broken the scum.I would've either way.
Post by: Eduren on January 16, 2010, 05:48:02 am
Although it is likely that even without Hammertime, I would have been lynched anyway.
Post by: Leafsnail on January 16, 2010, 08:38:03 am
Quote
Um, which claim messup was that leafy?Didn't you end up double claiming doctor with Vector or something? To be honest, it seems so long ago now that I can't remember.
Post by: Zai on January 16, 2010, 10:11:16 am
3. The third parties REALLY messed us up. Jester took the first lynch
You did it to yourselves~
I really thought I was on the edge of ObvJester the whole time. Even when somebody mentioned someone else being a Jester, no one brought that over to me, which I thought was weird.
Post by: ToonyMan on January 16, 2010, 11:12:57 am
I'm still confused as to how ToonyMan's role switched, by the way.
Me too. I don't see how a rule makes me switch roles to RTD Player.
Post by: Cheeetar on January 16, 2010, 11:15:39 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on January 16, 2010, 01:24:19 pm
umQuoteUm, which claim messup was that leafy?Didn't you end up double claiming doctor with Vector or something? To be honest, it seems so long ago now that I can't remember.
You mean the thing 'bout SirB'yer being scum 'cuz "doc w'sstill 'live'" being contr'ry to other g'me townpl'y?
Which I disproved? I'm surprised they lynched me 'nyw'y.
Post by: CobaltKobold on January 16, 2010, 01:54:27 pm
Full true original role list and actions:You forgot Rashilul(Diakron) and Redwarrior0
01. SirBayer - Nuclear Rocket Surgeon
02. Cheeetar - Bastard Mod
03. Neruz - Altar of the World Machine
04. Dakarian - Evangelist of the Lord of Chaos Cult
05. SHAD0WDump - Psychotic Clown [replaced by GlyphGryph]
06. Leafsnail - Envy (from FMA) - MAFIA
07. ExKirby - Rook
08. Vector - Potted Plant - MAFIA
09. Mr.Person - Glenn Beck - LYNCHER
10. Mephansteras - Blacksmith
11. Apostolic Nihilist - Charles Darwin
12. Zai - Ninja Zombie Alien Pirate Lawyer Robot Doctor Spiderman - Jester
13. Eduren - Barack Obama - TOWN LYNCHEE
14. ToonyMan - Dave Strider
15. Webadict - Pandarsenic
16. Org - Imperial Titan, Imperator Class - MAFIA
17. CobaltKobold - Kobold - MAFIA
additionally the first post does not properly list the winners.
Post by: Org on January 16, 2010, 03:21:59 pm
I win
Post by: Vector on January 16, 2010, 04:53:13 pm
Oh, and Vector is too dangerous as scum. He seriously bussed TWO of his scummates?!
Yup ;D My first two successful busses :3
My replacement was useful in quite a few ways though - it gave us a busser, created huge amounts of WIFOM (Eduren was basically lynched on those grounds) and also forced dakarian to waste a lot of his time on the defensive.
You have a good point, actually. SHAD0WDump was one of the better people to convert, though I still wish we could have played that for an endgame move of some sort.
Post by: Leafsnail on January 16, 2010, 04:57:42 pm
Post by: Vector on January 16, 2010, 05:01:27 pm
You would've never got Eduren lynched without "BUT OMG LEAFSNAIL MUST'VE PICKED THE MAGISTRATE!"... probably. Meph would've been a good night 2 target though (he would be able to "clear" Vector).
Yeah, but eduren was lurking his face off--he was just a lynch target because we were desperate to get some townie killed at that point. Meph would've been great, though.
Post by: CobaltKobold on January 16, 2010, 05:05:43 pm
You KNOW nobody else would be able to get away with mod-announcedly roleblocking a claimed supercop. Three nights running. TREMENDOUS scum-asset, e'en if(perhaps, as he says, because) he is a little lax checking mafiachat.
I laugh at web asking why anyone would want to convert him. There is the answer.
Post by: Vector on January 16, 2010, 05:12:53 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on January 16, 2010, 05:19:14 pm
Post by: Vector on January 16, 2010, 05:21:01 pm
Org coulda tried out and out denying it. Saying that there was some sort of manipulative role making him look like he was doing it... perhaps?
Hm. I might have to go think about modding something now.
Post by: Leafsnail on January 16, 2010, 05:26:33 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on January 16, 2010, 05:28:24 pm
If redirected, possibly rumbled by such as "You see Org visiting Org's house"
Post by: Leafsnail on January 16, 2010, 05:39:47 pm
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 16, 2010, 06:30:55 pm
woot woot go scum team
I win
No, you were replaced. You lose.
Post by: Org on January 16, 2010, 06:57:12 pm
I got him halfway, and I didn't die.woot woot go scum team
I win
No, you were replaced. You lose.
Post by: Pandarsenic on January 16, 2010, 07:14:40 pm
I got him halfway, and I didn't die.woot woot go scum team
I win
No, you were replaced. You lose.
You lose. Quit arguing it.