Post by: nenjin on March 16, 2012, 09:52:31 am
-----------------------------------------------
With all the big news about Double Fine ect.... pulling in
Without further ado, I present to you THE FUTURE OF MMO GAMING, WHERE EVERY FANTASY IS ON THE DEVELOPMENT LIST! No idea too great! No idea too small! No concept too fantastic or unworkable!
Your World (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/120873716/your-world?ref=live)
Make sure you read the rewards section!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now that the Kickstarter is officially
Post by: Hanzoku on March 16, 2012, 09:58:38 am
Post by: Rift on March 16, 2012, 10:01:23 am
and.. from the "project leader":
Quote
I am an idea man. I think of what I want and I try to make it happen. I am in love with this project and I will do everything in my power to hire all the right people to make this project a reality if it is fully funded.
God, anyone who calls himself a "idea man" likely has not only no idea how to do anything he is claiming he wants to do, but also has no way of computing how much time/effort/money each idea he has will take.
...and what is his obsession with "guild banks".
edit: he apparently owns a pizza shop.
Also: when your asking for over a million dollars, why can't you spell-check your kickstarter page... It's full of spelling/grammar errors. [I'm not great at spelling/grammar either, but i would at least spell-check myself asking for a million dollars or more]
Post by: majikero on March 16, 2012, 10:04:07 am
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on March 16, 2012, 10:06:08 am
Heh... those rewards guarantee the game would crash and burn, indeed. No one likes the idea of playing a game where someone will always beat you because they're rich and willing to shell out $10k to the game's development.
Give $10k = WIN GAME
He also looks like gabe newell with a mullet
Post by: Carrion on March 16, 2012, 10:10:12 am
Post by: Rift on March 16, 2012, 10:11:21 am
See comment by: Mark Willett
Post by: Virtz on March 16, 2012, 10:15:05 am
Post by: Nirreln on March 16, 2012, 10:18:42 am
I couldn't read through the about section I stopped after the section about the different server worlds.
Post by: majikero on March 16, 2012, 10:18:46 am
It's like making a game based on the internet. It feels like he's crowdsourcing for ideas than being the so called "Idea man". He's only contribution to the game is guild banks.
Post by: Trapezohedron on March 16, 2012, 10:19:49 am
This is not going to work. At all.
Post by: RedKing on March 16, 2012, 10:20:22 am
Post by: chaoticag on March 16, 2012, 10:22:23 am
Scroll down a bit. Looks like the 1.1 million is not all that necessary for the game anyway. He won 33 million a while back. I have no freaking clue why he thinks this will work out in the end though. Seems like a terrible investment for both him and his backers. It's pretty much just a way to buy into the project when it completes, with the added benefit that it might not complete.
Post by: scriver on March 16, 2012, 10:24:08 am
I'm kinda thinking this is a joke.
I hope so. For the guy's sake at least.
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on March 16, 2012, 10:25:03 am
Post by: nenjin on March 16, 2012, 10:25:33 am
Post by: chaoticag on March 16, 2012, 10:28:53 am
Also, Kickstarter does screen who gets to start a kickstarter. So he might be an ideas guy, but he is putting money where his mouth is. I don't think he expects to get funded anyway.
Post by: nenjin on March 16, 2012, 10:29:53 am
Post by: PTTG?? on March 16, 2012, 10:30:59 am
Also: when your asking for over a million dollars, why can't you spell-check your kickstarter page... It's full of spelling/grammar errors. [I'm not great at spelling/grammar either, but i would at least spell-check myself asking for a million dollars or more]This, so much of this. Plus I think he faked the one good-looking screenshot.
At least he set out with an unrealistic financial goal (like beyond the projects being done by big names). It'd be worse for Kickstarter in general if someone actually gathered the money and then miserably failed to deliver.Yep.
Post by: RedKing on March 16, 2012, 10:35:01 am
Post by: Darkmere on March 16, 2012, 10:57:27 am
Eh, I guess the punchline is someone actually dropped $10,000 on this?
Post by: PTTG?? on March 16, 2012, 11:04:14 am
Quote
Reward #1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 15. We will build a large town with max level NPC's for protection under your control. Will have a Fully furnished Mansion for your Avatar, an Armory, a Tavern, a farm, a Weaonpns shop and quests that will give you experience as others complete them. You will be able to customize the items in your mansion. All of your Avatars will share this area. Only on 1 server.
... Wow.
Post by: nenjin on March 16, 2012, 11:04:50 am
Post by: mainiac on March 16, 2012, 11:11:07 am
Post by: Knight of Fools on March 16, 2012, 11:16:10 am
I'm willing to bet that whoever pledged the $10,000 knew the project would fail, so they'd never have to pony up the money.
But... Seriously. There's 260 bonus slots available for backers who pledge $10,000. That's $2.6 million all by itself.
This guy is either insanely optimistic and naive, or a rather brilliant troll.
I'm willing to lean on the former, judging from the insane amount of typing someone had to do in order to fill that page out. Absolutely insane.
New rule: if anyone on this forum wins 33 million dollars, they are obliged to give Toady $10k. In return they will get their own guild bank which no one else is allowed to have.
If I ever won a lottery, I think I'd give Toady and Co. $50K, just to get the most awesome ASCII art ever. :D
Post by: jester on March 16, 2012, 11:28:15 am
Post by: nenjin on March 16, 2012, 11:28:34 am
Post by: Zangi on March 16, 2012, 11:31:00 am
He will always be one of the following: werebeast, vampire or a noble who likes adamantine and slade.New rule: if anyone on this forum wins 33 million dollars, they are obliged to give Toady $10k. In return they will get their own guild bank which no one else is allowed to have.
$10,000 #2: The first migrant dwarf (in every fortress, for everyone who plays the game) will be named after you and will have maxed proficiency in everything.
It could happen!
Post by: Wravburn on March 16, 2012, 11:39:37 am
Anybody else think the guy put up the 10k himself?
It's his game. He don't share the top dawg position.
Post by: Neonivek on March 16, 2012, 11:53:17 am
Maybe...
Still not bothered.
Post by: Zangi on March 16, 2012, 12:08:03 pm
Post by: Jopax on March 16, 2012, 12:10:24 pm
He really expects to have big enough worlds to fit all those extra towns in doesn't he?
Post by: justinlee999 on March 16, 2012, 12:12:37 pm
Bankruptcy.
Post by: EmperorNuthulu on March 16, 2012, 12:14:55 pm
Post by: PTTG?? on March 16, 2012, 12:46:35 pm
Quote
Space and Beyond: As your world (server) you will gain access to space travel. You will be able to travel from one world (server) to another. You will be able to buy or create your own space ship and go on space battles against the horde of creatures that have also leveled to the point of space travel. This is where the world will have to work together. There will be quests and puzzles that will need to be complete and materials gathered and turned in to the world council. Once your world reaches certain levels you will gain space travel and be allowed to participate in multi world quests and PVP events.
Good lord this man has lost his mind.
Post by: justinlee999 on March 16, 2012, 12:47:25 pm
Post by: Zangi on March 16, 2012, 01:31:33 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 16, 2012, 01:42:20 pm
New rule: if anyone on this forum wins 33 million dollars, they are obliged to give Toady $10k. In return they will get their own guild bank which no one else is allowed to have.Honestly, if I ever won the lottery Toady would receive a regular salary from me so he isn't reliant on donations and would have less to worry about financially.
Also I would open a games studio and pound out 30-40 crappy ipad games a month just to swamp the apple app with (more) crap so that apple fails. [/notbitteratall]
Post by: PTTG?? on March 16, 2012, 01:53:24 pm
For instance, he mentions multiple times that levels won't be needed to get mounts, vehicles, etc... It's like he was frustrated by the artificial confines of levels, but rather than making something distinct, perhaps by simply doing away with levels entirely and finding some new way to reward progression, he takes away the annoying (but essential) parts, like someone tired of filling a gas tank and thus simply removing it from the car.
Moreover, he seems to wish to create a new WoW, assuming with a cargo-cult type thought process that all he needs to do is have things called "raids" and "guilds" in the game, and the players will be there. Besides the few absurd departures he mentions, (such as "space travel" between servers, complete with space battles, showing a total lack of understanding of the basic purpose of separate servers,) his "feature list" reads as nothing more or less than a list of minor ways his game will differ from other MMOs- the one that stands out most clearly to me being that one will be able to use mounts at level 1.
This man is making a new MMO from scratch, in part because he wants to lower the requirements for mounts.
This man does not need to start his own kickstarter project. Instead, he needs to donate to kickstarter projects. He wants to see new games, but he just doesn't have any new ideas.
Post by: nenjin on March 16, 2012, 01:58:17 pm
Post by: Enzo on March 16, 2012, 02:21:44 pm
Imagine if everyone followed the dude who pledged 10k as a joke, and it really happened, the amount was met.
Bankruptcy.
Imagine if he just decides, being a millionaire already, to donate the difference to himself on the last day. Jesus wept.
So, I just started reading a bit of the description in the middle.
Quote
So a dragon is going to fly a bit faster than a winged horse will. A race car mount will move faster than a horse mount.:|
Post by: Aklyon on March 16, 2012, 02:49:51 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 16, 2012, 02:53:04 pm
This guy should hire me just to sort out this mess and make it reasonable. At least I would proofread his project and make it sound somewhat professional... that is 35% of my current job, technical and professional writing.
Post by: nenjin on March 16, 2012, 02:53:32 pm
Did he not notice that theres at least 5 identical 10k donation tiers, and that no one is going to actually go for the ones that have less prizes?
Sssshhhhh, that's a _feature_!
Post by: RedKing on March 16, 2012, 02:53:50 pm
Post by: mattie2009 on March 16, 2012, 03:34:49 pm
Quote from: Ellwood Bartlett
HOW DO I BUSINESS
This has to be a joke.
Not even the most retarded, brain-dead scumsucking basket of idiocy on the planet would willingly look at this and go "Yeah. This seems like a good plan. I think this could pan out without the internet viciously mocking me."
Honestly, I think the last reward was supposed to be for a $1million investment and he just accidentally hit Kickstarter's anti-idiot reward ceiling.
Do the gaming world a favour, donate to FTL instead.
Post by: klingon13524 on March 16, 2012, 03:53:13 pm
They've already got over 1000% raised. Try the ant MMO on kickstarter instead.Quote from: Ellwood BartlettHOW DO I BUSINESS
This has to be a joke.
Not even the most retarded, brain-dead scumsucking basket of idiocy on the planet would willingly look at this and go "Yeah. This seems like a good plan. I think this could pan out without the internet viciously mocking me."
Honestly, I think the last reward was supposed to be for a $1million investment and he just accidentally hit Kickstarter's anti-idiot reward ceiling.
Do the gaming world a favour, donate to FTL instead.
Post by: alway on March 16, 2012, 04:27:25 pm
The project is a good example of a "dead baby monkey." A project which is absolutely terrible, everyone else can see it is obviously terrible, but its creator, emotionally invested in the project, will never let it go, much like a monkey whose baby has died will continue attempting to take care of it and coax it awake.Quote from: Ellwood BartlettHOW DO I BUSINESSThis has to be a joke.
Not even the most retarded, brain-dead scumsucking basket of idiocy on the planet would willingly look at this and go "Yeah. This seems like a good plan. I think this could pan out without the internet viciously mocking me."
Post by: nenjin on March 16, 2012, 04:40:31 pm
The project is a good example of a "dead baby monkey." A project which is absolutely terrible, everyone else can see it is obviously terrible, but its creator, emotionally invested in the project, will never let it go, much like a monkey whose baby has died will continue attempting to take care of it and coax it awake.Quote from: Ellwood BartlettHOW DO I BUSINESSThis has to be a joke.
Not even the most retarded, brain-dead scumsucking basket of idiocy on the planet would willingly look at this and go "Yeah. This seems like a good plan. I think this could pan out without the internet viciously mocking me."
And the sadness quotient of this project just increased 3-fold.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 16, 2012, 04:42:10 pm
Imma go email him.
Post by: Microcline on March 16, 2012, 04:52:56 pm
It seems more likely that the guy successfully opened a pizza shop, played a few video games and assumed that the development processes operated in similar ways. If he had invested more time and effort into it he'd have researched the development process, picked up a bit of coding, written a more solid design doc, and be funding it with his own money.The project is a good example of a "dead baby monkey." A project which is absolutely terrible, everyone else can see it is obviously terrible, but its creator, emotionally invested in the project, will never let it go, much like a monkey whose baby has died will continue attempting to take care of it and coax it awake.Quote from: Ellwood BartlettHOW DO I BUSINESSThis has to be a joke.
Not even the most retarded, brain-dead scumsucking basket of idiocy on the planet would willingly look at this and go "Yeah. This seems like a good plan. I think this could pan out without the internet viciously mocking me."
And the sadness quotient of this project just increased 3-fold.
Post by: nenjin on March 16, 2012, 05:59:58 pm
At some point, someone is going to reality check him, which in turn means he's going to have to alter the promises the Kickstarter was built on. So that's the real issue (with stupidly ambitious projects that are crowd-sourced.) The thing that sells them is the thing that cannot be sustained.
How do you explain to your X $10,000 backers that you can't deliver what you promised them for their money? Let alone all the other backers who are expecting dragons made out of rocketships, flying through time to assassinate Hitler in their own procedurally generated mega-world which also is also an MMO landscape?
The only person who would accept a task like that would be someone as deluded as the founder. I guess this will prove to be a real test of what's more important to a truly successful game: resources or the idea. Because somehow I have a feeling if he misses his date he's still going to try to create a game. Shit, if I had $33 million, I would too.
Post by: Cthulhu on March 16, 2012, 07:53:12 pm
Technically, since it's impossible, it can cost whatever he wants it to cost. He could make it on ten dollars just as easily as he could make it on ten billion dollars.
As insane as this is, it's not without precedent. At least one of you has to remember A Gang of Daggers (http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/31935/a-gang-of-daggers-high-school-kids-war-action-adventure). They're of the same breed, in the same way that a lemur and King Kong are of the same breed.
Post by: lordcooper on March 16, 2012, 08:05:14 pm
Post by: alamoes on March 16, 2012, 08:31:47 pm
Did he not notice that theres at least 5 identical 10k donation tiers, and that no one is going to actually go for the ones that have less prizes?
He limited them to 20 prizes each. First rich kid come (I mean seriously, 20,000?) first rich kid serve.
You guys are the worst, ridiculing the ambition of a great man. I personally hope he follows his dream and ignore haters like yourselves.
Agreed. If I were to own 33 mil I would do something of the same. Ofcourse I wouldn't use a kickstart to judge interest. :/
I would probably spell as bad from writing so much :P.
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on March 16, 2012, 10:34:24 pm
Imagine if everyone followed the dude who pledged 10k as a joke, and it really happened, the amount was met.
Bankruptcy.
Imagine if he just decides, being a millionaire already, to donate the difference to himself on the last day. Jesus wept.
I think that would be so fucking hilarious, I would laugh and laugh.
Post by: Solifuge on March 16, 2012, 10:41:17 pm
That dollar is the man's pity to this terrible idea and to the poor guy that put down 10k to this project. I feel overwhelming amounts of pity to this project.
I'm rejecting the reality where someone actually pledged $10,000 to this project, and replacing it with the reality where the guy saved up and pledged that to himself, in hopes of encouraging more huge donations to the "It's Better Than World of Warcraft: Gaiden" project.
EDIT: Yeah, it was inevitable, but I really hope this sort of thing doesn't damage Kickstarter for the future. It's too cool for this to ruin!
Post by: lordcooper on March 16, 2012, 10:46:34 pm
Post by: Solifuge on March 16, 2012, 10:50:02 pm
You know, if he has a ridiculous amount of money, maybe he can spend it actually making this. I'm... kinda horrified by the prospect now.
Post by: Draco18s on March 16, 2012, 11:28:43 pm
(Nothing says you can't revise your pledge downward or even cancel!)
Post by: Moghjubar on March 16, 2012, 11:37:17 pm
I am... unsure he is going to get the kickstarter funds though :P
Post by: Knight of Fools on March 16, 2012, 11:52:45 pm
...he's still going to have to convince dozens of professionals to take on this project. Regardless of how much he agrees to pay them, they will not be able to accomplish what he's envisioning...
I would totally jump on this project if he paid me for it. You never know where they might need someone who's studied Visual Basic for half a semester. I'd be able to spend years of my life working on a project doomed to failure, ultimately ending with a shaky release, near immediate failure, my employer losing his livelihood, and me coming out with a desire never to work on another game project again (But ultimately doing so because I have no experience in any other field). It'd be just like the real game industry!
Post by: alway on March 17, 2012, 12:17:58 am
I would totally jump on this project if he paid me for it. You never know where they might need someone who's studied Visual Basic for half a semester. I'd be able to spend years of my life working on a project doomed to failure, ultimately ending with a shaky release, near immediate failure, my employer losing his livelihood, and me coming out with a desire never to work on another game project again (But ultimately doing so because I have no experience in any other field). It'd be just like the real game industry!You aren't nearly as skeptical as you should be if you think this will have even a shaky release. It won't be released. Ever.
You guys are the worst, ridiculing the ambition of a great man. I personally hope he follows his dream and ignore haters like yourselves.It's obvious from the text the guy has not only no clue about the game development industry, but no clue about the development process. As someone in a game development major, it's something I would expect a terribly bad incoming freshman to propose. The whole text is, quite frankly, bullshit. So far as I know, he has no team of developers, no experience with code, no experience with MMO development, and no understanding of how to create good game mechanics. It manages to be both completely overscoped while being too vague as to actual game mechanics to mean anything. He won the lottery; that doesn't make him an expert in game development any more than it makes him an expert in quantum mechanics. Dead. Baby. Monkey.
Post by: lordcooper on March 17, 2012, 12:27:33 am
Post by: nenjin on March 17, 2012, 12:35:40 am
Italics for the win.
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on March 17, 2012, 12:36:25 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjCo2I3ooK0
Post by: Scelly9 on March 17, 2012, 12:39:15 am
This man is fail.
Seriously, that pretty much summed it up.
Post by: majikero on March 17, 2012, 12:41:51 am
Lets see the problems here:
1. No solid idea, seriously. There are no solid foundations, it only asks for millions of different people what they want to put in it. Try asking the same with five creative people and see how well you do.
2. Spelling errors right there in the part where they ask for your money. It really kills any kind of credibility.
Those two are the most glaring problems that jumps out at me. If you do any kind of project planning in school, take this as an example of bad planning doomed to failure. Learn from it.
Post by: Scelly9 on March 17, 2012, 12:49:13 am
Quote
Space and Beyond: As your world (server) you will gain access to space travel. You will be able to travel from one world (server) to another. You will be able to buy or create your own space ship and go on space battles against the horde of creatures that have also leveled to the point of space travel. This is where the world will have to work together. There will be quests and puzzles that will need to be complete and materials gathered and turned in to the world council. Once your world reaches certain levels you will gain space travel and be allowed to participate in multi world quests and PVP events.I want whatever he's smokin.
Post by: nenjin on March 17, 2012, 12:54:56 am
Post by: majikero on March 17, 2012, 01:10:39 am
Post by: Solifuge on March 17, 2012, 01:11:59 am
You people have done NO RESEARCH WHAT SO EVER. He does know about game design, in fact I can link you to a video that will tell you everything you need to know.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjCo2I3ooK0
Quote from: Youtube Comments
Yo momma so loose the graphics on level 3 said DAYAMNNNN.
Post by: alway on March 17, 2012, 01:26:00 am
Your sarcasm detector appears to be broken.For your information, my sarcasm detector is not broken, it merely never worked in the first place. :P
Post by: Knight of Fools on March 17, 2012, 01:45:21 am
You aren't nearly as skeptical as you should be if you think this will have even a shaky release. It won't be released. Ever.
What can I say? I'm an optimist!
Post by: Sensei on March 17, 2012, 01:46:05 am
Anyway, those screenshots look familiar. I think the models are defaults that come with some game engine or other (relatively recent version of Torque?). Can anyone help me figure out which/if I'm correct in my suspicions?
Post by: nenjin on March 17, 2012, 01:50:02 am
Anyway, those screenshots look familiar. I think the models are defaults that come with some game engine or other (relatively recent version of Torque?). Can anyone help me figure out which/if I'm correct in my suspicions?
Quote from: Taz
As Mark Willett said,QuoteYour screenshots is coming from a pre-built cloud solution known as Hero Engine. You basically used in game tools which were freely available that everyone here has access to to mock up from pregenerated terrain shown in the tutorial sections. All you have there is access to the engine and the ability to roam around.
Post by: lordcooper on March 17, 2012, 01:54:39 am
Post by: Sensei on March 17, 2012, 02:02:00 am
Kickstarter is a liberal scam anyway. (http://conservativetalk.org/2011/08/25/kickstarter-com-a-real-scam/)Haha. What a bizarre project. Especially the Apple-based rewards, which has nothing to do with the project and obviously is just a portion of your money going to Apple to buy you something. At least he "Gets a large discount on these products" because of his job, so it's not 1 for 1 pointless. Still I can only imagine that offering to exploit your employee discount publicly is frowned upon.
Post by: nenjin on March 17, 2012, 02:04:08 am
Post by: Sensei on March 17, 2012, 02:12:57 am
Post by: Trapezohedron on March 17, 2012, 02:32:58 am
Quote
Ellwood Bartlett about 7 hours ago
Everyone who donates $10 gets a free copy of the game when it comes out!!! I can't edit that pledge any more.
Ellwood Bartlett about 7 hours ago
That should say $10 or more. :-)
*facepalm*
Post by: lordcooper on March 17, 2012, 02:39:35 am
QuoteEllwood Bartlett about 7 hours ago
Everyone who donates $10 gets a free copy of the game when it comes out!!! I can't edit that pledge any more.
Ellwood Bartlett about 7 hours ago
That should say $10 or more. :-)
*facepalm*
Especially when one considers the bit where he essentially says it's f2p.
Quote
This game will cost as much or as little as you wish to spend. We will fund this game though the sale of in game items. There will be no subscription fee to play this game. So you can either work really hard for your items or work easy and enjoy the game and buy things to make in game life easier. It will be up to you.
Post by: justinlee999 on March 17, 2012, 02:49:29 am
Is this guy even Elwood Bartlett.
Post by: Knight of Fools on March 17, 2012, 02:56:24 am
Wait, and it's only $10?!
You should have told me sooner! I'll have to go withdraw my $10,000 immediately... *Grumble grumble.*
Kickstarter is a liberal scam anyway. (http://conservativetalk.org/2011/08/25/kickstarter-com-a-real-scam/)
I kind of got the feeling reading through the project description that Kick Starter had a good reason for not giving the green light. The third or fourth comment down confirmed that. None of the rewards were related to the project (Give me money, and I'll give you an iPod I got at a discount!), and there wasn't really any project. It was just to support some guy's blog.
Shame on him for trying to pass it off as a scam. He's just embarrassing himself, there.
Post by: alway on March 17, 2012, 03:03:01 am
A very large percentage are positive. D:
Post by: Knight of Fools on March 17, 2012, 03:16:01 am
Post by: Dutchling on March 17, 2012, 03:22:49 am
Post by: nenjin on March 17, 2012, 03:52:38 am
Post by: Knight of Fools on March 17, 2012, 04:14:39 am
He so full of ideas, he's about to explode!
Dude, totally sigged.
Post by: Freak on March 17, 2012, 04:22:06 am
Post by: justinlee999 on March 17, 2012, 04:24:46 am
Quote from: Comrade Domovoi
I'm sorry, but this looks like ADHD babby's first MMO. OH MAN THIS IS SO COOL AND WE CAN PUT THIS IN AND YEAH THIS IN AND THIS OH MAN THIS IS GONNA BE SO SWEET. Having actually read the whole kickstarter page, this is just dumb. I like how people who pay a lot of money will have what appear to be game breaking advantages. Also, this guy is sitting on 27 million after taxes that he didn't have prior to the lottery win, he can very well foot the 1.1 million bill himself if he is so interested in it.
The reply
Quote from: Snitchy
@Comrade Domovoi. Someone probably said something similar to you to George Lucas when he came up with the idea for A New Hope or Bill Gates for Microsoft. If people like you ruled the world, there would be no creativity, hope or joy in the world.
Joystiq is full of idiots.
Post by: Trapezohedron on March 17, 2012, 07:04:53 am
Quote from: Comrade DomovoiI'm sorry, but this looks like ADHD babby's first MMO. OH MAN THIS IS SO COOL AND WE CAN PUT THIS IN AND YEAH THIS IN AND THIS OH MAN THIS IS GONNA BE SO SWEET. Having actually read the whole kickstarter page, this is just dumb. I like how people who pay a lot of money will have what appear to be game breaking advantages. Also, this guy is sitting on 27 million after taxes that he didn't have prior to the lottery win, he can very well foot the 1.1 million bill himself if he is so interested in it.
The replyQuote from: Snitchy@Comrade Domovoi. Someone probably said something similar to you to George Lucas when he came up with the idea for A New Hope or Bill Gates for Microsoft. If people like you ruled the world, there would be no creativity, hope or joy in the world.
Joystiq is full of idiots.
Indeed. Probably a side-effect of Notch's appearance in the game industry (note, I am not bashing the guy, since he is cool and all and actually did something, so don't take me wrong), who basically improved everyone's view on aspiring nobodies-to-game-designers.
Really, those people over at Joystiq should've read the rewards list and the list of redundancies as well as the update pages, and maybe the comments section.
Post by: mattie2009 on March 17, 2012, 08:47:45 am
Post by: Empty on March 17, 2012, 10:55:08 am
Quote from: Comrade DomovoiI'm sorry, but this looks like ADHD babby's first MMO. OH MAN THIS IS SO COOL AND WE CAN PUT THIS IN AND YEAH THIS IN AND THIS OH MAN THIS IS GONNA BE SO SWEET. Having actually read the whole kickstarter page, this is just dumb. I like how people who pay a lot of money will have what appear to be game breaking advantages. Also, this guy is sitting on 27 million after taxes that he didn't have prior to the lottery win, he can very well foot the 1.1 million bill himself if he is so interested in it.
The replyQuote from: Snitchy@Comrade Domovoi. Someone probably said something similar to you to George Lucas when he came up with the idea for A New Hope or Bill Gates for Microsoft. If people like you ruled the world, there would be no creativity, hope or joy in the world.
Joystiq is full of idiots.
Indeed. Probably a side-effect of Notch's appearance in the game industry (note, I am not bashing the guy, since he is cool and all and actually did something, so don't take me wrong), who basically improved everyone's view on aspiring nobodies-to-game-designers.
Really, those people over at Joystiq should've read the rewards list and the list of redundancies as well as the update pages, and maybe the comments section.
Except Notch had already developed and was developing the Wurm Graphic client for years.
Post by: Salabasama on March 17, 2012, 11:04:50 am
Except Notch had already developed and was developing the Wurm Graphic client for years.indeed. A large number of us were already fans of Notch or at least already knew he was somewhat capable well before MC came out.
Post by: Lord Dullard on March 17, 2012, 12:59:07 pm
I mean, I know they were thinking 'holy crap, this guy is a millionaire... maybe it'll work and we'll get monies'.
But seriously, Kickstarter? Seriously?
Post by: Sensei on March 17, 2012, 01:06:54 pm
Post by: Lord Dullard on March 17, 2012, 01:41:12 pm
http://www.kickstarter.com/profile/120873716
Check out those awesome sketches, guys.
I'm pretty sure the universe's RNG picked this guy as the winner of the lottery for the lulz.
Post by: Ricky on March 17, 2012, 02:09:32 pm
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on March 17, 2012, 02:29:31 pm
I'll bet when George Lucas submitted his idea for a movie, it was mostly free of spelling errors.
When making Star Wars, Mr. Lucas had a decade's worth of experience in film making.
When making his first film, Mr. Lucas started out small and concise.
Seems that people defending Mr. Bartlett and citing Newell/Lucas/Notch/Whoever as examples, completely forget that the people in question either already had experience in their chosen medium and/or started out significantly smaller than Bartlett's "Project: Kitchen Sink the MMO".
Cool project though, will be interesting to see just how far this gets before collapsing.
Post by: Cthulhu on March 17, 2012, 02:38:57 pm
Quote from: Bartlett
I have 3 companies who have said they can do the entire package in my time frame for the Funded amount or less.
Quote from: Bartlett
Three people have attempted to scam me. As I was a government project to see what happens if you replace a man's brain with a Nintendo, I fell for it
Post by: Draco18s on March 17, 2012, 03:41:20 pm
Quote from: BartlettI have 3 companies who have said they can do the entire package in my time frame for the Funded amount or less.Quote from: BartlettThree people have attempted to scam me. As I was a government project to see what happens if you replace a man's brain with a Nintendo, I fell for it
I. Wait. What?
Post by: freeformschooler on March 17, 2012, 03:43:30 pm
Quote from: BartlettI have 3 companies who have said they can do the entire package in my time frame for the Funded amount or less.Quote from: BartlettThree people have attempted to scam me. As I was a government project to see what happens if you replace a man's brain with a Nintendo, I fell for it
I. Wait. What?
Cthulhu should be a comedian.
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on March 17, 2012, 03:50:11 pm
So, he just posted some 'concept art' on his Kickstarter profile.
http://www.kickstarter.com/profile/120873716
Check out those awesome sketches, guys.
I'm pretty sure the universe's RNG picked this guy as the winner of the lottery for the lulz.
It looks like he paid a 13 year old on deviant art to draw concept art.
Post by: lordcooper on March 17, 2012, 03:51:29 pm
Post by: nenjin on March 17, 2012, 03:53:33 pm
Quote
I'm pretty sure the universe's RNG picked this guy as the winner of the lottery for the lulz.
Actually, I'm pretty sure the universe is still trying to decide between him, and the founder of Kony2012 that just got arrested.
Of course I suppose there's no rule that the universe can't provide two examples of maximum lulz in the same time frame.
Quote
It looks like he paid a 13 year old on deviant art to draw concept art.
It looks to me like he's taking his inspiration from SNES game book art. Some of that reminds me pretty strongly of Dragon Warrior 3 and 4.
That said, it's almost embarrassingly cute he thinks that qualifies as "concept art."
Quote
Do some of those looks a bit like clumsy renditions of Cloud and Vincent's lovechild?You could throw darts at a list of memes, characters and tropes and any two they struck would probably be correct in his case.
"Dark Stalkers and......Metal Gear Solid! Yes! I am genius!!111"
Post by: Skyrunner on March 17, 2012, 04:08:24 pm
I mean...
...
(lost)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Simple lines make it ALIVE!Post by: Jopax on March 17, 2012, 04:09:16 pm
Kickstarter intentionally allows this shit to roll like it does, then when it crashes and burns like the Titanic did they can have a nice little summary for anyone that applies in the future.
"I have read the Bartlett files and promise to not be that silly
- "
Post by: Enzo on March 17, 2012, 04:26:10 pm
QuoteIt looks like he paid a 13 year old on deviant art to draw concept art.
It looks to me like he's taking his inspiration from SNES game book art. Some of that reminds me pretty strongly of Dragon Warrior 3 and 4.
That said, it's almost embarrassingly cute he thinks that qualifies as "concept art."
The guy who did the concept art for the Dragon Quest games and Chrono Trigger, Akira Toriyama, is also the Dragon Ball guy. The art is strongly reminiscent of a 13-year-old who thinks Dragon Ball Z is the coolest thing ever but still has a very limited grasp of things like anatomy. Hueg torsos and biceps everywhar.
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on March 17, 2012, 04:29:43 pm
QuoteIt looks like he paid a 13 year old on deviant art to draw concept art.
It looks to me like he's taking his inspiration from SNES game book art. Some of that reminds me pretty strongly of Dragon Warrior 3 and 4.
That said, it's almost embarrassingly cute he thinks that qualifies as "concept art."
The guy who did the concept art for the Dragon Quest games and Chrono Trigger, Akira Toriyama, is also the Dragon Ball guy. The art is strongly reminiscent of a 13-year-old who thinks Dragon Ball Z is the coolest thing ever but still has a very limited grasp of things like anatomy. Hueg torsos and biceps everywhar.
Now that I think about it for a little bit, the characters remind me of Violence Jack. Beware it's pretty violent http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCy64SWwHYc
Post by: Solifuge on March 17, 2012, 04:31:35 pm
I have to say, I continue to see signs of a chronic WoW-player whose vision is shaped by his love of the game... most of his assumed concepts are the same, or directly inspired by it.
Post by: nenjin on March 17, 2012, 04:45:27 pm
Quote
The guy who did the concept art for the Dragon Quest games and Chrono Trigger, Akira Toriyama, is also the Dragon Ball guy. The art is strongly reminiscent of a 13-year-old who thinks Dragon Ball Z is the coolest thing ever but still has a very limited grasp of things like anatomy. Hueg torsos and biceps everywhar.
As someone who spent a lot of their teen years learning to draw like Akira Toriyama, based off all those titles, I can actually relate to this a little. I still doodle DBZ faces when I feel like arting occasionally. It's not what I would sell as a game art. Also I usually stop somewhere at the shoulders because I have no interest in drawing muscles, and anatomy is fucking hard in the first place.
I swear though, that sword he drew looks like he was glancing at a picture of the Zentithian Sword or pictures from the Final Fantasy 2 game boy manual while he was doing it. Part of my water mark for creative originality is whether someone iterates on the things they're inspired by. He's done that a little, and it's kind of terrible looking, but part of is me actually starting to feel a little guilty about all this. This is turning into some sort of bizarre window into the mind of Ellwood Bartlett, the man who got rich and just full on reverted back to his childhood.
Post by: Rez on March 17, 2012, 04:56:18 pm
The Old Republic cost almost 200 million dollars to make. His 42 million or whatever if it even exists is pretty much nothing compared to what a game like this would cost.
I'm surprised no one's touching this, though it is kind of off-topic. I was under the impression that pretty much everyone thought that 200 million was a completely outrageous amount of money to need to develop a game, even an mmo. After seeing the reaction to it and hearing some anecdotes, it seems like most of it was probably tied up in administrative bloat and advertising. 200m is a LOT of money. Por ejemplo: apparently the total cost of WoW for 2004-2008 was 200million. TOR cost more than that before it was released.
I think indie devs and modders disprove the idea that monetary investment into a project is the main determiner of a games success or merit.
That said, this kickstarter is very poorly thought through.
Post by: nenjin on March 17, 2012, 04:59:51 pm
Quote
After seeing the reaction to it and hearing some anecdotes, it seems like most of it was probably tied up in administrative bloat and advertising.
While this is true to some extent, it's becoming increasingly popular for AAA games to out-source several parts of the game to different, specialized development studios. You've got the cost of licensing 3rd party software, the profit margins of all involved partners, paying for big budget composers....oh, and let's not forget the bloat generated by George Lucas' needs.
$200 million is a lot, where some AAA games get made for far less than $30 million. So I don't disagree the cost is insane, but when you're dealing with one of George Lucas' IPs, bloat is to be expected.
Post by: Aklyon on March 17, 2012, 05:09:14 pm
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on March 17, 2012, 05:11:44 pm
QuoteAfter seeing the reaction to it and hearing some anecdotes, it seems like most of it was probably tied up in administrative bloat and advertising.oh, and let's not forget the bloat generated by George Lucas' needs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF02VoDQSd0
Post by: nenjin on March 17, 2012, 05:14:25 pm
"Howard the Duck...."
"Precisely!"
"Of course...."
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooo.
Post by: Solifuge on March 17, 2012, 05:32:36 pm
What a difference a bit of thinking makes!
Post by: malloc on March 17, 2012, 05:55:20 pm
HELLO I R 12 YEAR OLD, WHO HAS BEST IDEA FOR MMO, IT'S LIKE WOW/RUNESCAPE BUT DIFFERENT. I BE IDEA GUY, JUST NEED A TEAM TO MAKE IT FOR ME.
Then I realized that this kid was actually a fully grown man with 36 million $ in cash.
Oh please.. Someone, take those money away from him and give them to a responsible adult. I mean, 36 million could be invested in so freaking many good places. Even putting them in the bank would be a reasonable investment.
Not burned on some idiots MMO dream, which is practically impossible to pull of, especially for him.
Post by: mattie2009 on March 17, 2012, 06:03:20 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on March 17, 2012, 06:23:53 pm
From what I know, banks barely keep up with the inflation rate. Possibly CDs, Treasury bills/notes/bonds, corporate bonds, and other 'safe' investments are much better. For example savings bonds have 4% yearly interest, and doubles your money after 17 years or so.
When you have $32 million... almost whatever you do will yield huge profit (not relatively, but in actual numbers.)
Post by: Cthulhu on March 17, 2012, 06:24:29 pm
Post by: Solifuge on March 17, 2012, 07:06:34 pm
I still don't believe he even has that kind of money.
http://paganwiccan.about.com/od/contemporaryissues/a/Bartlett_Interv.htm (http://paganwiccan.about.com/od/contemporaryissues/a/Bartlett_Interv.htm)
Yep.
Post by: Aqizzar on March 17, 2012, 07:16:07 pm
Also, holy fuck, that "concept" "art".
Post by: Neonivek on March 17, 2012, 07:21:10 pm
Post by: jester on March 17, 2012, 08:47:30 pm
Post by: Draco18s on March 17, 2012, 09:24:25 pm
Dunno about the US, but over here, people in the know say pizza joints (as long as they do decent pizza) are a respectable investment and with 5 or 6 decent staff can provide decent returns with minimal input from the owner.
A pizza joint probably isn't a bad investment, but it doesn't make the guy a wiz game designer.
Post by: Lord Dullard on March 18, 2012, 01:02:30 am
...part of is me actually starting to feel a little guilty about all this. This is turning into some sort of bizarre window into the mind of Ellwood Bartlett, the man who got rich and just full on reverted back to his childhood.
Yeah, ditto. The guy clearly doesn't have much of a grasp of what he's doing, but I feel bad for him because this is just so crazily doomed. He's probably a nice guy.
Post by: Servant Corps on March 18, 2012, 02:25:57 am
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on March 18, 2012, 02:39:20 am
seriously now, all i had in my mind as i read the project was "why him!? I should have that money, not him"
Post by: alway on March 18, 2012, 02:41:04 am
Unlike other "idea guys", he can credibly promise to pay people to work for his project. That doesn't mean it'd work out, but he'd at least will get people to develop his game, as opposed to some random 13-year-old who appears to know nothing and offer "future profits".That would be valid if he were merely filling the role of a businessman running the operation. It isn't a case of running the pizza shop, it's a case of wanting to define every aspect of the pizza shop, from creating the pizza recipe to building the delivery vehicles himself. All with no expertise in any of those areas. Even if he hired Chef Ramsey, the endeavor would still fail. That is to say, it doesn't matter who he hires: the game stuff he has already set in stone is completely unrecoverable.
The reason any programmer goes into game development is to make something they can get excited about and enjoy doing. His project can't offer that, and as a result game developers would rather work on another project. To get any developers, he would have to offer substantially higher pay than industry standard.
Post by: Sensei on March 18, 2012, 03:27:13 am
Post by: catoblepas on March 18, 2012, 03:55:32 am
Post by: PTTG?? on March 18, 2012, 10:24:48 am
Post by: Azkanan on March 18, 2012, 10:37:16 am
Post by: Cthulhu on March 18, 2012, 10:38:12 am
Also, they aren't actually throwing money at it, they're just doing it to fuck with him. It's gonna be really funny if enough people put in ten thousand dollar troll donations that it ends up passing.
Post by: Draco18s on March 18, 2012, 11:58:03 am
Also, they aren't actually throwing money at it, they're just doing it to fuck with him. It's gonna be really funny if enough people put in ten thousand dollar troll donations that it ends up passing.
You and five friends could dump 200k on him each and let it go until 24 hours before the goal, then all drop out.
Post by: cerapa on March 18, 2012, 11:58:05 am
Man... if people are actually throwing their money at this guy's ideagamedream, then I think I might actually have a chance on Kickstarter with The Ancients (http://www.the-ancients.net). :|I wouldnt call 541 dollars in joke pledges "throwing money".(I highly doubt the 10k was by anyone other than the dude in question)
If any of that money was honestly pledged/not by the dude himself, I will eat my pants.
Post by: Criptfeind on March 18, 2012, 12:03:56 pm
Post by: mattie2009 on March 18, 2012, 12:08:19 pm
Why are all the concept art "people" looking so unhappy?Because they knew what they were being drawn for.
Post by: Sartain on March 18, 2012, 12:10:08 pm
Why are all the concept art "people" looking so unhappy?
They've caught the dreaded "Roleplayers Wangst" disease
Post by: Neonivek on March 18, 2012, 12:13:06 pm
Why are all the concept art "people" looking so unhappy?
They've caught the dreaded "Roleplayers Wangst" disease
Because Saddness is deep while happyness is shallow. (It isn't true, but if you want something to seem deep just make it sad)
Post by: Neonivek on March 18, 2012, 12:14:20 pm
Why are all the concept art "people" looking so unhappy?
They've caught the dreaded "Roleplayers Wangst" disease
Because Saddness is deep while happyness is shallow. (It isn't true, but if you want something to seem deep just make it sad)
Post by: Scelly9 on March 18, 2012, 12:23:29 pm
Post by: DrPoo on March 18, 2012, 12:35:07 pm
Ideas guys are usually either over ambitious preteens or some random buttbeard that got fired from his office.
I got experience with ideas guys..
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 18, 2012, 12:37:20 pm
Im never ever, ever giving money to "devs", ever, no matter how poor they are. Especially not after this asshole shows up.But Toady is a dev...
Ideas guys are usually either over ambitious preteens or some random buttbeard that got fired from his office.
I got experience with ideas guys..
Post by: Aklyon on March 18, 2012, 12:51:38 pm
Post by: blackmagechill on March 18, 2012, 01:17:58 pm
Post by: chaoticag on March 18, 2012, 01:26:53 pm
So chill on the personal attacks. People win lotteries all the time, and although we might feel they don't deserve it, it's not a good reason to hate someone outright because of blind luck.
Post by: nenjin on March 18, 2012, 01:53:29 pm
He's almost like a mirror showing us all the things we enjoy as gamers...but twisted into a form that kind of repulses and embarrasses us. The lottery winnings on top of that just kind of make it seem like god has an extremely strange sense of humor.
But yeah, let's not use that as an excuse to be terrible people. I'm not going to wish him well....but I'm not going to wish him ill either.
Post by: Rex_Nex on March 18, 2012, 01:53:42 pm
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/avatars/2147115/Bunk2.large.jpg?1331695563)
What are the chances? :P
WAAAIIIT. THE OTHER WICCAN I SAW WAS ON A SHOW ABOUT BECOMING A MILLIONAIRE TOO. It's the same guy. It has to be.
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on March 18, 2012, 06:32:45 pm
:|
Post by: Scelly9 on March 18, 2012, 06:38:52 pm
Quote from: From the comments
Ellwood Bartlett: Ok no hookerbots. I will say this there is a profession called "Entertainer" There will be no hookers.This guy is extremely weak-willed.
Gareth Evans: This is an outrAge!!
Ellwood Bartlett: Ok fine there will be hookerbots.
James Griffiths: This is now the best project ever.
Post by: Skyrunner on March 18, 2012, 06:44:25 pm
That's very true.
Post by: lordcooper on March 18, 2012, 09:31:30 pm
Post by: Cthulhu on March 18, 2012, 09:41:26 pm
Post by: Azthor on March 18, 2012, 09:44:13 pm
Why in the fuck does that manchild have enough money to own anything at all? The fact that this guy won the lottery burns me to no end. I REALLY wish the lottery was faked like some people say, because this wouldn't have happened.
Noveau riche or not, that is not by any means or in any fashion the issue at hand. Rather, what has so many of us weirded out is the blatant use of 3rd hand marketing paired with a project so delusional it falls just short of a scam targeted at the would be collaborators.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 18, 2012, 09:52:10 pm
As a hookerbot, I'm highly offended by this.Hey baby, how's it going?
Post by: Darkmere on March 18, 2012, 09:53:40 pm
As a hookerbot, I'm highly offended by this.Hey baby, how's it going?
Wanna kill all humans?
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 18, 2012, 10:18:26 pm
Post by: Sensei on March 18, 2012, 11:05:52 pm
LOL.Man, I was reading the comment thread earlier, with him not realizing people are trolling him, and discussing high-level game minutiae and no basic anything... if anyone thought maybe he wasn't a crazy person as was just really bad at marketing and public presentation, well this proves he's an all around naive crazy person.Quote from: From the commentsEllwood Bartlett: Ok no hookerbots. I will say this there is a profession called "Entertainer" There will be no hookers.This guy is extremely weak-willed.
Gareth Evans: This is an outrAge!!
Ellwood Bartlett: Ok fine there will be hookerbots.
James Griffiths: This is now the best project ever.
Post by: Karlito on March 19, 2012, 12:01:23 am
Quote from: Samuel
Okaayy. So I might be asking for a lot here. But can we have an option to change battle styles for our server? For example: People who want to have combat similar to WoW can set it to WoW and People who want to battle like Tera can set it to Tera mode.
if not can I please have Tera mode or GW2 style. Or something of a mix. I'm tired of click and auto and shit >.> - But of course other people might want a WoW battle mechanic styled game. So having an option would be the best thing since the universe.
Post by: lordcooper on March 19, 2012, 01:53:47 am
This also means that I was not able to troll him by pledging a million :(
Post by: Enzo on March 19, 2012, 02:49:13 am
Apparently each backer may only pledge up to 10k, so he can't make up the difference himself.
This also means that I was not able to troll him by pledging a million :(
Surely with millions of dollars worth of resources you could set up 100 paypal dummy-accounts. Kind of like money laundering.
Post by: RulerOfNothing on March 19, 2012, 02:54:22 am
Post by: Enzo on March 19, 2012, 03:10:48 am
Post by: Cthulhu on March 19, 2012, 02:41:38 pm
Quote from: "Samuel," a commenter
Okaayy. So I might be asking for a lot here. But can we have an option to change battle styles for our server? For example: People who want to have combat similar to WoW can set it to WoW and People who want to battle like Tera can set it to Tera mode.
This project is firmly in the realm of fantasy, so sure, let's pull out all the stops. One server is a massive open world FPS with multiple player-created factions vying for supremacy, eventually invading the other planes. One is a regular MMO. One is a regular MMO but underwater or whatever. Who cares, let's do this.
Edit: I'm looking through summaries of kickstarter projects. There's some thing incredibly sad about that big gray FUNDING UNSUCCESSFUL box.
Post by: nenjin on March 19, 2012, 02:43:27 pm
Through Facebook! Nothing can stop this!
I'm seriously starting to question how many promises he can make before the weight of them all forces KS to shut him down. Because this is basically making a mockery of the process.
Post by: Aklyon on March 19, 2012, 02:47:43 pm
Post by: Zangi on March 19, 2012, 03:43:16 pm
Meanwhile, The Banner Saga (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stoic/the-banner-saga) looks awesome and is on Kickstarter.What is this? I want to donate to it. Blargh... the floodgates.
Post by: Draco18s on March 19, 2012, 03:54:20 pm
Meanwhile, The Banner Saga (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stoic/the-banner-saga) looks awesome and is on Kickstarter.
Holy Armok. Do want.
(Do I have $2500 to just throw at that..?)
Post by: freeformschooler on March 19, 2012, 04:08:38 pm
Meanwhile, The Banner Saga (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stoic/the-banner-saga) looks awesome and is on Kickstarter.
Holy Armok. Do want.
(Do I have $2500 to just throw at that..?)
It looks really fun.
If I won the lottery I would just donate to Kickstarter and other things all day.
Post by: Aqizzar on March 19, 2012, 04:21:59 pm
Meanwhile, The Banner Saga (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stoic/the-banner-saga) looks awesome and is on Kickstarter.
Admittedly, three guys with genuine, lead experience in the industry asking for crowd-sourcing for a game (and so much lip service about "maturity" and "publishers") makes me think Kickstarter is on its way to becoming a paint-by-numbers guerrilla marketing generator, for producing AAA titles with even less money out of pocket for the same old developers.
That game does look pretty cool though, and I like their tiered rewards system. I might kick in a full $50, if I can think of a banner design.
Post by: PsyberianHusky on March 19, 2012, 04:23:18 pm
Feast your ears upon this podcast.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on March 19, 2012, 04:42:53 pm
Meanwhile, The Banner Saga (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stoic/the-banner-saga) looks awesome and is on Kickstarter.thank you
Post by: Cthulhu on March 19, 2012, 04:53:29 pm
Kickstarter was bad before Psychonauts 2 proved it was bad AND profitable.
Feast your ears upon this podcast.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I don't have time to listen, but I've had that feeling that Kickstarter was gonna be a "oh boy i can get free money for my idea now" hellscape. The only thing unprecedented about this one is the scope of his insanity.
Post by: freeformschooler on March 19, 2012, 04:58:05 pm
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on March 19, 2012, 05:02:42 pm
Post by: Zangi on March 19, 2012, 05:44:24 pm
sometimes you grab a turd amidst the dustIs that not with all things when you speculate upon the future outcome? Its like betting on a race horse in the upcoming race...
But yea, we have our turd quality of a kickstarter in the OP...
Post by: Scelly9 on March 19, 2012, 05:45:58 pm
Post by: Karlito on March 19, 2012, 06:11:17 pm
Quote from: Ellwood Bartlett
Hooker bots will be quest base systems. :-) Just let your minds wander. :-)I don't even want to know what he thinks that means.
And someone posted this article (http://www.baltimorestyle.com/index.php/style/people/p_life_lesson_bunky_bartlett_ma09/) with plenty of nuggets of wisdom from our favorite visionary.
Post by: 3 on March 19, 2012, 06:19:04 pm
This is the worst one I have ever seen.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/richardgnw/thera
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: freeformschooler on March 19, 2012, 06:20:43 pm
And someone posted this article (http://www.baltimorestyle.com/index.php/style/people/p_life_lesson_bunky_bartlett_ma09/) with plenty of nuggets of wisdom from our favorite visionary.
Quote from: Elwood
When the jackpot gets over $100 million, I go out and spend $10 on lottery tickets. I could win again. I probably will. What I expect is what will happen. I will win again.
I need a facepalm gif.
Post by: nenjin on March 19, 2012, 06:23:48 pm
Quote
Admittedly, three guys with genuine, lead experience in the industry asking for crowd-sourcing for a game (and so much lip service about "maturity" and "publishers") makes me think Kickstarter is on its way to becoming a paint-by-numbers guerrilla marketing generator, for producing AAA titles with even less money out of pocket for the same old developers.
This is my fear as well. How does the adage go? In business, it's always better use someone else's money before your own?
I mean I don't know if I'd do anything different if I and two or three other guys were worth $3 million net. That's smart economics. But as far as games go, it seems to be undercutting the principle Kickstarter is founded on. Because were I a developer, the last thing I would want to do is open my game up to crowd-sourcing ideas, its expectations and commit myself to a bunch of stupid personalized rewards.
Quote
I could win again. I probably will. What I expect is what will happen. I will win again.
I'm about to reverse my policy on not hating on this guy......
LOL, this guy moved to Westminster. Can you picture the blue bloods complaining about nouveau riche, then Ellwood Bartlett turns the corner?
Post by: Karlito on March 19, 2012, 06:29:28 pm
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/richardgnw/theraAt least this kid has a working game.
Post by: Aklyon on March 19, 2012, 06:30:16 pm
Post by: Enzo on March 19, 2012, 06:40:36 pm
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/richardgnw/thera
I laughed. I cried. So beautiful.
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on March 19, 2012, 06:45:15 pm
At least he set a somewhat realistic goal, and bullethell games can be pretty fun.http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/richardgnw/thera
I laughed. I cried. So beautiful.
Post by: Enzo on March 19, 2012, 06:51:12 pm
Do do do dodo do doo
Post by: Cthulhu on March 19, 2012, 07:00:31 pm
oh god oh man oh god oh man
Post by: Aqizzar on March 19, 2012, 07:01:09 pm
Bunky Bartlett has a wife.
oh god oh man oh god oh man
I'll bet you $32 million she looks just like him.
By the by, The Banner Saga has made $10,000 in the last three hours.
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on March 19, 2012, 07:05:56 pm
Quote from: banner saga
Not another generic fantasy: Drawing heavily from Norse culture while creating its own identity and mythology, The Banner Saga takes a low-fantasy approach to viking themes. Giants: yes. Horned helmets: noi love this game
does it have a thread already?
Post by: Eagle_eye on March 19, 2012, 07:07:01 pm
Quote from: Ellwood BartlettHooker bots will be quest base systems. :-) Just let your minds wander. :-)I don't even want to know what he thinks that means.
And someone posted this article (http://www.baltimorestyle.com/index.php/style/people/p_life_lesson_bunky_bartlett_ma09/) with plenty of nuggets of wisdom from our favorite visionary.
">I’m a true believer in ‘Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach him how to fish, he eats for his lifetime.’ So I won’t just give things to people. They have to earn it. " The hypocrisy is incredible.
Post by: freeformschooler on March 19, 2012, 07:10:43 pm
Bunky Bartlett has a wife.
oh god oh man oh god oh man
I'll bet you $32 million she looks just like him.
(http://tnypic.net/46984.png)
Post by: Zangi on March 19, 2012, 07:16:08 pm
This article is related to concerns about Publisher vs Developer. I'll be honest, I agree with the perception that Publishers are going to go all medieval with their contracts, ushering in a dark age for all those that will work on future games for them.
Or probably not that bad. But, ya know.
The pull to put money into Banner Saga is strong.... it calls to me. Like a sweet siren.Quote from: banner sagaNot another generic fantasy: Drawing heavily from Norse culture while creating its own identity and mythology, The Banner Saga takes a low-fantasy approach to viking themes. Giants: yes. Horned helmets: noi love this game
does it have a thread already?
Post by: Detonate on March 19, 2012, 07:26:06 pm
Meanwhile, The Banner Saga (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/stoic/the-banner-saga) looks awesome and is on Kickstarter.
As terribad as Kickstarters like the one in the OP are, something about "donate money, get art, support games" sounds really appealing. Kickstarter can actually be useful, especially when it's for projects such as the Sutro bike.
Post by: alway on March 19, 2012, 07:55:00 pm
Have to agree with that podcast. It gives everyone who deserves to fail the chance to. :)
Post by: nenjin on March 19, 2012, 07:57:31 pm
Post by: Scelly9 on March 19, 2012, 08:01:48 pm
By all means, let this become the thread that is filled with the corpses of failed Kickstarter ideas.Well, the name is "When Kickstarter goes wrong"
Post by: nenjin on March 19, 2012, 08:06:50 pm
Post by: Thexor on March 19, 2012, 08:13:56 pm
A funnel! And all they need for this ingenious new idea is $5000! (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mattchalek/dr-fills-water-tunnel-the-all-fill-no-spill-water?ref=recently_launched)
Have to agree with that podcast. It gives everyone who deserves to fail the chance to. :)
Hey kids, look at the bargain! Pay $5 for a funnel... or $50 for six funnels! That's only $8.33 a funnel, a savings of -$3.33 or -67%!
(I reserve judgement on the idea... but I think they might want to work on their math a wee bit.)
Also, horray for Kickstarter remembering all the other projects I've viewed in the last few days. All of which were linked from this thread. It's like the website is advertising "Hey, come look at a gallery of our worst failures!" at the bottom of every page. :P
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on March 19, 2012, 08:53:13 pm
A funnel! And all they need for this ingenious new idea is $5000! (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mattchalek/dr-fills-water-tunnel-the-all-fill-no-spill-water?ref=recently_launched)
Have to agree with that podcast. It gives everyone who deserves to fail the chance to. :)
i don't see a problem with that project.
now this guy is literally selling pebbles from his backyard, at $23 a bag plus shipping
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/buckhowdy/addicting-game-of-balance-and-strategy-art-and-phy?ref=live
Post by: Skyrunner on March 19, 2012, 09:01:36 pm
It does seem fun, to be honest.
Post by: Karlito on March 19, 2012, 09:06:46 pm
">I’m a true believer in ‘Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach him how to fish, he eats for his lifetime.’ So I won’t just give things to people. They have to earn it. " The hypocrisy is incredible.Nah, it's cool since the pagan gods personally intervened in the lottery for him. He was destined to have the money.
Post by: nenjin on March 19, 2012, 09:11:12 pm
Post by: Cthulhu on March 19, 2012, 09:22:33 pm
Post by: Karlito on March 19, 2012, 09:46:29 pm
Post by: Neonivek on March 19, 2012, 09:50:14 pm
He's only become slightly more materialistic too. He's only on his 7th car.
Not exactly it is psychology. When people suddenly have a ton of money they treat it like it is nearly unlimited.
It is why having someone help you with savings when you win this much money is actually a good idea... well in my mind at least.
So you don't spent what is essentially being "set for life" all at once.
Post by: Karlito on March 19, 2012, 10:20:09 pm
Post by: Cthulhu on March 19, 2012, 10:31:05 pm
Here's something almost as bad (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/524273422/zombies-vs-humans?ref=category).
That guy's baby is cute as fuck, but the fact that he wrote that and is old enough to have children is disturbing.
Now I'm wondering. What happens if you get your funding but fail to deliver? Is there some kind of legally binding contract involved? Every project I see on kickstarter that isn't Banner Whatever makes me less supportive of the whole idea.
Post by: Karlito on March 19, 2012, 10:49:17 pm
Post by: Scelly9 on March 19, 2012, 10:50:03 pm
Post by: Zangi on March 19, 2012, 11:08:22 pm
FTL, that game looks damned cool.I think Kickstarter is going to be bad for me in the long run...
Post by: Sensei on March 20, 2012, 01:04:47 am
Bunky Bartlett has a wife.FTFY
oh god oh man oh god oh man (http://ohgodohmanohgodohmanohgodohman.ytmnd.com/)
Post by: Asgarus on March 20, 2012, 01:34:14 am
Also, the only fckin idea for crafting is that he will create APPS to craft??
That fucked it up for me, i LOVE crafting, and his only goal is to make it less present in your game time.
Poor guy, even IF he somehow manages to make an actual game out of that bunch of words, it won't be anything special...
Post by: Knight of Fools on March 20, 2012, 11:24:21 pm
So I'm perfectly fine with Kick Starter, and I think it's a brilliant way to gauge interest (And support!) in a project before it gets launched without dealing with the hassles of triple-A pre-ordering. I do think that Kick Starter should be a little more strict than "i haev idea giv me monee" in order to have more high quality stuff that people can browse through. It makes successful projects more prominent, which increases the chances of the projects being successful.
In the least, they should have different stages that the product is in to sort through - Stuff like Complete Product (Like a book that just needs a bump to get printed), Prototype (A game with a working version), Completely Documented (All the specs are set in stone, just not created), Partially Documented (A fair amount of the design is set in pencil), Basic Idea (A basic list of things the product will be). We'd be able to sort through stuff with more promise a lot easier, especially if things could fall under multiple categories (Prototype & Basic Idea, or just a Prototype). Heck, let's start a Kick Starter to make it happen!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/richardgnw/thera
Understatement of the year: "Thera is a computer game."
Shortly followed by two whole minutes of the guy playing the game in complete silence. While I'm rather surprised at how good he is at his own game, the video slowly degrades into "strategies to play the game that I'm making that you can't play yet".
I laughed the entire time.
Post by: AlStar on March 21, 2012, 08:55:50 am
Wow, (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dariy/3d-vegas-online-facebook-and-mobile-device-game?ref=category)there's (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/916211944/the-chronicles-of-avalon?ref=recently_launched)a lot (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2word/christian-unity-mobile-adventure-game?ref=recently_launched)of weird (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/boingvert/quest-for-1-second?ref=recently_launched)kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1724082964/val-riazanov-the-art-of-systema-a-russian-martial?ref=recently_launched)projects (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/994913774/free-will?ref=recently_launched)out there. (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/574874222/equality-book-series?ref=recently_launched) I guess I shouldn't really be surprised by that, but wow. A lot of people want a lot of money before they've even started work on their thing.
I like some of the rather unreasonable gift levels some of these people have.
Like the last link you've got there only has two:
"Pledges of $25 and up will recieve a Thank You note from me and updates on the project."
"The first five pledges of $500 or more will recieve a copy of the ebook when it is completed."
It's an ebook, lady. It costs you nothing to make as many copies as you like, and yet you want $500 for a copy? Really? And only 5? Why limit it?
A much more reasonable timeline would be (IMO)
$1 - updates, $10 - thank you note, $25 - copy of ebook, $500 signed copy of an actual book.
But hey, she's got $1 pledged so far, so I guess she knows what she's doing.
Post by: nenjin on March 21, 2012, 09:20:39 am
And a thank you note and "updates" for $25? Does she still think we're in the 1870s and are relying on Pony Mail? Jesus christ lady, it would take you all of 4 seconds to post an update to the Kickstarter page.
It's projects like this that sort of make me amazed that anyone started taking Kickstarter seriously.
Post by: Knight of Fools on March 21, 2012, 09:38:05 am
$5 - Copy of Ebook; $10 - Thank you note, Ebook; $25 - Book-Themed T-Shirt, Everything else; $50 - Book-Themed Poster, Everything Else; $100 - Signed copy of book, everything else; $500 - Personal thank you note in signed book, your name included in 'thank you' section, everything else.
It makes it easy to weed out the people who simply made a Kick Starter without much of a plan than 'get some money for the thing I want to do', though. If they're not willing to do something cool for the people who give them money for free, no matter how insignificant $5 seems, then it makes it easy to believe that they're going to put the same amount of effort into their product (IE, not very much).
Post by: PTTG?? on March 21, 2012, 10:13:41 am
Tier 1: Thanks, Updates, and everything else you can do for less than 1 cent each. Minimum of $1.
Tier 2: $7; digital copy of whatever you're working on when complete, if applicable. If it's a physical project, skip this. Seven dollars is pocket change; Eight dollars is almost ten bucks.
Tier 3: Costs about $25. This includes a "feely" of some kind. If possible, a low-cost part the product. People are used to paying $20 for stuff. If they're getting a tangible item, then it works. For instance, if making a software program, send a CD in a case. If making a sailboat from a burned-out tree, send authentic bits of polished wood.
Tier 4+: Depends highly on the product. Each tier should offer tangible benefits over the previous. Don't offer your product for less than production costs- or, if you do, offer a limited number of them, like ten. You're basically bribing ten people to publicize your project so they can get their boat for below price.
Post by: Draco18s on March 21, 2012, 10:47:36 am
Here's a good way to do it:
Tier 1: Thanks, Updates, and everything else you can do for less than 1 cent each. Minimum of $1.
$1 for updates is the "you like our project, but don't really want anything, you're chipping in because what we're doing is cool" level.
I found it hilarious when my project (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/boardraptorgames/velociraptor-cannibalism) was mentioned on Board Game Geek's forums, and they're all "A DOLLAR TO SEE THE RULES?" and a few derisive posts about how we'll "never make it" because "there's no physical game from the onset." Cue two weeks and $13,000 later...
What you actually get for the $1 level tends to vary, though, as does the price (Three Kings Chess (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1992866292/three-kings-chess-the-next-generation-of-chess), for instance, has all of their reward levels in multiples of 3, so their lowest is $3). But it still generally revolves around the theme of the token donation with token reward.
Quote
Tier 2: $7; digital copy of whatever you're working on when complete, if applicable. If it's a physical project, skip this. Seven dollars is pocket change; Eight dollars is almost ten bucks.
Our $5 reward is basically the demo game, in digital format, and what we've been giving out to reviewers for free (although it'll be laid out better).
Quote
Tier 3: Costs about $25. This includes a "feely" of some kind. If possible, a low-cost part the product. People are used to paying $20 for stuff. If they're getting a tangible item, then it works. For instance, if making a software program, send a CD in a case. If making a sailboat from a burned-out tree, send authentic bits of polished wood.
$18 is our final, polished game, in digital format.
$22 is the same, but with Kickstarter exclusive cards.
Originally these were $15 and $25, but in talking about it, we squeezed the prices together so it's a "it's only $4 to get bonus stuff!" and largely it's worked (only 21 backers at $18, but 101 at $22).
Due to production costs of the physical product, that's priced at $48 (+$10 for international), and wasn't available until after we met our goal (which was to barely cover art costs).
Quote
Tier 4+: Depends highly on the product. Each tier should offer tangible benefits over the previous. Don't offer your product for less than production costs- or, if you do, offer a limited number of them, like ten. You're basically bribing ten people to publicize your project so they can get their boat for below price.
Our "tier 4" items were customized content. $75 to design a card to be included in the final game, $250 to get a custom raptor playmat (whatever accessories you'd like on your raptor!) and $500 to break from the whole "raptor" thing (unicorn? SURE!). All three levels of which come with a physical copy of the game, and were limited. We're still trying to figure out what other Tier 4 items we can offer, as ours are sold out!
Post by: evilcherry on March 21, 2012, 11:15:34 am
Post by: Draco18s on March 21, 2012, 11:32:40 am
I think boardgames do especially well on kickstarter, since BGG works as such a good resource. And eurogamers tend to take things into perspective.
We've had only 3 pledges come in from BBG. :P
Post by: MaximumZero on March 21, 2012, 11:33:23 am
-snip-This bothers me to no end: Please, please, please change "wet your appetite" to "whet your appetite". BLARGLGLELRRL.
Post by: Aqizzar on March 21, 2012, 12:09:09 pm
Post by: Scelly9 on March 21, 2012, 12:10:58 pm
Post by: Karlito on March 21, 2012, 12:12:04 pm
Post by: PTTG?? on March 21, 2012, 12:13:41 pm
Post by: chaoticag on March 21, 2012, 12:15:00 pm
I'm curious why so many entries offer "updates" as one of the rewards. Isn't sending you "updates" on the status of the product just putting you on their mailing list?For some, it's a way of padding things out, but for a lot of people, it might be that they haven't funded a kickstarter project, and it helps clarify things for them up front instead of having to find out that you get access to updates somewhere else. And it's a great way to offer exclusive content, and let people know that yes, we have exclusive content that we're going to put up on our kickstater updates page.
Post by: Draco18s on March 21, 2012, 12:15:02 pm
-snip-This bothers me to no end: Please, please, please change "wet your appetite" to "whet your appetite". BLARGLGLELRRL.
Unfortunately, we cannot. Once someone pledges at a given level, the text and buy-in price is locked from editing.
Post by: Zangi on March 21, 2012, 12:15:35 pm
Pledging even the minimum to a project will automatically subscribe you to a mailing list of updates that get posted on the kickstarter page. That's all it means.Obviously, the best marketing strategy is to offer the update, guaranteed.
Post by: MaximumZero on March 21, 2012, 12:18:16 pm
Good to know. Ah, well.-snip-This bothers me to no end: Please, please, please change "wet your appetite" to "whet your appetite". BLARGLGLELRRL.
Unfortunately, we cannot. Once someone pledges at a given level, the text and buy-in price is locked from editing.
Post by: Karlito on March 21, 2012, 12:19:41 pm
It's just the mechanics of the way kickstarter works. Joining a project (by pledging), gets you subscribed to updates posted on the kickstarter page. If you have an indy game with a blog and web presence already then it sort of makes sense that you'd have an external mailing list, but many projects seem too small to bother with that.Pledging even the minimum to a project will automatically subscribe you to a mailing list of updates that get posted on the kickstarter page. That's all it means.Obviously, the best marketing strategy is to offer the update, guaranteed.
Post by: nenjin on March 21, 2012, 12:23:26 pm
It's like someone selling you a car and saying "Nuts and bolts included, no extra charge!"
Post by: Strange guy on March 21, 2012, 06:37:44 pm
Post by: Neonivek on March 21, 2012, 06:46:36 pm
Post by: nenjin on March 21, 2012, 07:04:55 pm
I'd be more than willing to give money to an interesting project I knew needed it, knowing I'd have to buy the game later. That's totally different than dev houses that are already halfway to their goal at the end of day 1 (or sooner.)
Post by: Zangi on March 21, 2012, 07:23:34 pm
Post by: mainiac on March 21, 2012, 07:51:45 pm
A funnel! And all they need for this ingenious new idea is $5000! (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mattchalek/dr-fills-water-tunnel-the-all-fill-no-spill-water?ref=recently_launched)
Have to agree with that podcast. It gives everyone who deserves to fail the chance to. :)
$5000 sounds to me like the bare minimum amount of starting capital to me. My guesstimate that they are contracting out every aspect of the manufacturing to a third party but the third party isn't going to agree to start production without that level of commitment. If they tried to do it any other way the price would be much, much higher. That's my guess anyway, I don't really have a clear view of the product so I don't know how they're making it.
Post by: nenjin on March 21, 2012, 08:14:40 pm
In a 'normal' gamer's perspective, it could be thought of as a pre-order. Buying the game now, is probably cheaper then when it starts selling. Extra items are like Collector Edition stuff... which you pay more for.
I don't think 'normal gamers' are financially capable or willing to blow $250+ for Collector edition stuff. And considering the often limited nature of reward slots...it's not really a pre-order either, and it's totally subject to the price point they choose to set. If they offer the game as a reward at $50, then only charge $25 for it at release.....then "pre-ordering" on a game likely to meet its goal was a dumb idea. Especially if, once they get their funding, they go the normal game route of offering a Collector's Edition for the general public, DLC, ect...I don't think your average gamer craves swag that bad.
Post by: PTTG?? on March 21, 2012, 10:39:11 pm
A funnel! And all they need for this ingenious new idea is $5000! (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mattchalek/dr-fills-water-tunnel-the-all-fill-no-spill-water?ref=recently_launched)
Have to agree with that podcast. It gives everyone who deserves to fail the chance to. :)
Spoken like someone who's never thought about starting a business... that $5000 is quite honestly very likely to be too little. Which is too bad, the idea is really good- I know my mom would buy one. Might be good for moving oil between quart bottles too. If he's splitting it out, then I guess it'll work.
Post by: evilcherry on March 21, 2012, 11:51:34 pm
I think boardgames do especially well on kickstarter, since BGG works as such a good resource. And eurogamers tend to take things into perspective.
We've had only 3 pledges come in from BBG. :P
Nah, I mean, at least you won't overcharge your customers too much :D
Post by: lordcooper on March 22, 2012, 03:52:52 am
Quote
Here is what I am looking at from a cost stand point.
3 Game Designers, 2 Concept Artists, 8 programmers, 5 3d artists, 2 texture artists, 4 2d artists, 3 3d artists, 2 cinematic Animators, 1 graphic designer and 1 project manager/producer.
1. What exactly is a game designer?
2. What differentiates 2d artists from texture and concept artists?
3. He needs 5 3d artists and 3 3d artists.
4. Will this game have no sound?
Post by: mattie2009 on March 22, 2012, 04:30:28 am
QuoteHere is what I am looking at from a cost stand point.
3 Game Designers, 2 Concept Artists, 8 programmers, 5 3d artists, 2 texture artists, 4 2d artists, 3 3d artists, 2 cinematic Animators, 1 graphic designer and 1 project manager/producer.
1. What exactly is a game designer?
2. What differentiates 2d artists from texture and concept artists?
3. He needs 5 3d artists and 3 3d artists.
4. Will this game have no sound?
1. I was about to say "Maybe he means programmers", but then I saw that he has programmers on that list so I guess he's just stupid.
2. The octopus in his brain.
3. He needs to be locked up.
4. Good question, donate one buck and go pester him about it.
Post by: etgfrog on March 22, 2012, 05:13:18 am
1. What exactly is a game designer?i think this explains it pretty well
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/so-you-want-to-be-a-game-designer
Post by: MrWiggles on March 22, 2012, 07:47:19 am
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/916211944/the-chronicles-of-avalon
He's going to bring us something BEYOND AMAZING! Which is why proof reading, and typographical error corrections is below him, or above him? Beyond him?
I was so swayed by his utter arrogance that I had to go find more information on this Chris Evan, in
how he is going to bring something BEYOND AMAZING to life.
http://www.helium.com/users/336650/show_articles
It's not good. His only article on there doesnt have any citation, and is poorly structured. I know that I don't have the greatest typing ability on these forums, but I consider this more relax place and I dont often claim to be a professional writer who is going to make the Great American Sci Fi story.
His kickstarter page doesn't have any sample chapters, but you can read example of 'Fate the The chronicles of Avalon.' (Note this is what he literally linked to these chapters on helium self publishing site.)
http://www.freewebs.com/csevans/
It's nothing terribly exciting, or gripping, astounding or anything. It's incredibly average, and cliche. Though it does have less typographical errors, and has better structure then his other work. I'm considering doing a dramatic reading of it.
Post by: Draco18s on March 22, 2012, 07:51:14 am
I think boardgames do especially well on kickstarter, since BGG works as such a good resource. And eurogamers tend to take things into perspective.
We've had only 3 pledges come in from BBG. :P
Nah, I mean, at least you won't overcharge your customers too much :D
Oh that.
See, being a bunch of board game geeks ourselves (Andrew I invited to Global Game Jam specifically for his ability to dissect game rules, and his vast experience playing board games) we knew what a board game cost.
Post by: mattie2009 on March 22, 2012, 08:41:48 am
So the, The chronicles of Avalon on kickstarters, that was linked earlier is just all kinds of sad. There is self confidence, then there is sucking your own dick. I mean, he suck his own dick so much, he's going to catch a new STD.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/916211944/the-chronicles-of-avalon
He's going to bring us something BEYOND AMAZING! Which is why proof reading, and typographical error corrections is below him, or above him? Beyond him?
>All rewards are limited
That's fucking stupid. I can't even tell you how terrible that is because after all the rewards are used up-- IF they get used up, what's the incentive to donate?
>Minimum reward is $20, reward is keyring
Also complete balls. I bet I could get a good, solid keyring for less than £5. That keyring had better be made of solid gold or it won't be worth it.
>Text-based Autofellatio
Holy shit dude, your spine must be contorted into a pretzel. You're building up unrealistic expectations AND giving everyone something to laugh at you about in one fell swoop. Stick to low-key promises (or even better, don't promise anything because then you're not setting your audience up for dissapointment). If this doesn't get funded (or worse, gets funded but doesn't pan out), you've successfully pissed a LOT of people off.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 22, 2012, 08:48:12 am
Just took a look at that. Okay so... he wants us to fund his... book? Fine fine. The 20k he wants isn't going to get a book published though, so what is the money for? food so he can write the book? I wonder if he's even written any of it yet. If he can honestly deliver a 'deeper literary experience' than any other author, he wouldn't have trouble getting published by an actual publisher. If he were serious about the project, he could post snippets of the text to show off his skill rather than spoil the whole goddamn plot in the first paragraph of the project description. Also I see several errors in the written description and the whole thing is pretty bad. If he can't even write a good description of his book which would make me want to read it, I wonder how he expects to keep my interest once I buy in...So the, The chronicles of Avalon on kickstarters, that was linked earlier is just all kinds of sad. There is self confidence, then there is sucking your own dick. I mean, he suck his own dick so much, he's going to catch a new STD.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/916211944/the-chronicles-of-avalon
He's going to bring us something BEYOND AMAZING! Which is why proof reading, and typographical error corrections is below him, or above him? Beyond him?
>All rewards are limited
That's fucking stupid. I can't even tell you how terrible that is because after all the rewards are used up-- IF they get used up, what's the incentive to donate?
>Minimum reward is $20, reward is keyring
Also complete balls. I bet I could get a good, solid keyring for less than £5. That keyring had better be made of solid gold or it won't be worth it.
>Text-based Autofellatio
Holy shit dude, your spine must be contorted into a pretzel. You're building up unrealistic expectations AND giving everyone something to laugh at you about in one fell swoop. Stick to low-key promises (or even better, don't promise anything because then you're not setting your audience up for dissapointment). If this doesn't get funded (or worse, gets funded but doesn't pan out), you've successfully pissed a LOT of people off.
Post by: lordcooper on March 22, 2012, 08:58:30 am
>All rewards are limited
That's fucking stupid. I can't even tell you how terrible that is because after all the rewards are used up-- IF they get used up, what's the incentive to donate?
It is especially stupid if you do the maths.
Quote from: The Maths
20 x 75 = 1500
60 x 30 = 1800
100 x 25 = 2500
500 x 15 = 7500
Total = $13,300
The goal is $20,000. It is literally impossible for this to be funded, unless people donate significantly more than the minimum to enter a reward tier.
Post by: Draco18s on March 22, 2012, 09:04:05 am
The goal is $20,000. It is literally impossible for this to be funded, unless people donate significantly more than the minimum to enter a reward tier.
Or simply donate and request no reward.
Anyway, I sent the guy a message. I don't really care if he replies or changes his reward levels.
Post by: mattie2009 on March 22, 2012, 09:05:50 am
>All rewards are limited
That's fucking stupid. I can't even tell you how terrible that is because after all the rewards are used up-- IF they get used up, what's the incentive to donate?
It is especially stupid if you do the maths.Quote from: The Maths20 x 75 = 1500
60 x 30 = 1800
100 x 25 = 2500
500 x 15 = 7500
Total = $13,300
The goal is $20,000. It is literally impossible for this to be funded, unless people donate significantly more than the minimum to enter a reward tier.
I suspected as much. This guy is going to get a harsh lesson in teh mathematics.
I guess it's true what they say; Writers really can't do math. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WritersCannotDoMath)
Post by: AlStar on March 22, 2012, 11:36:09 am
http://www.freewebs.com/csevans/
It's nothing terribly exciting, or gripping, astounding or anything. It's incredibly average, and cliche. Though it does have less typographical errors, and has better structure then his other work. I'm considering doing a dramatic reading of it.
Quote from: The Prolog (which most writers who are not "beyond amazing" would write as 'Prologue') First Paragraph
The leaders of each world gathered together deep in talks about a place that would be the shining star in the galaxy. After many years their dream finally became a reality, and indeed it was a shining star of their new empire as they had dreamed. A city brighter then any star in the night sky shone as a symbol of hope for across the vastness of space.
(Highlighting mine)
Ick. I'm sure I could come up with much worse; but honestly, between the odd capitalization, punctuation and confusing sentence structure, even just that first paragraph drained me of my will to live.
Quote from: KickStarter Page
I want people not to to put the book down and weep when it's sad...
It's sad, and I'm weeping... but I don't think this is what the author had in mind.
If this is a "literary experience that goes beyond all others," then apparently the author has never read anything over a grade school primer.
edit: Ok, I couldn't help myself. Here's the next paragraph:
Quote
The joy that all the united worlds shared was short lived. Soon ships began moving into uncharted parts of the galaxy in hopes of finding new worlds. Deep in the darkness one small ship would alter the fate of the galaxy. They came across an area of space that had not seen the light of light of civilization In well more than ten thousand years. The Omatanar called this place “Nacdehk bmyla uv dra tacdnuoanc” Which means resting place of the destroyers. Pushing on despite warnings they passed the great barrier and came across a beautiful untouched world. Unknowingly this one ship released a dark force from their eternal prison. Moving a storm nothing was strong enough to stop them world after world fell to the power of the storm until only one remained.
Note that, at this point in the story (the second paragraph), we've never heard of who or what the 'Omatanar' are/were. Generally speaking, after calling them out by name, it would be a good time to give some description about them... but nope, apparently they just named this place.
"Pushing on despite warnings" - What warnings? The fact that these Omatanar guys called the place "The resting place of the destroyers"? Hell, that could just be a poor translation for a rest stop.
"They passed the great barrier" - What barrier?
"Moving a storm nothing was strong enough to stop them world after world fell to the power of the storm until only one remained. " - The first part of that sentence is just a 'huh?' Moving like a storm, maybe?
This guy makes my head hurt.
Post by: MaximumZero on March 22, 2012, 02:39:59 pm
Post by: Trapezohedron on March 22, 2012, 03:06:02 pm
Post by: chaoticag on March 22, 2012, 03:20:03 pm
Isn't every star in the galaxy a shining star?Not true, some shimmer.
But yeah, this sounds like some cognitive dissonance. Basically, with very little experience in writing, you think you are a great writer, because you're not good enough to see what mistakes you make. This applies to everything, and so we get Sturgeon's Law, even on kickstarter.
I'm half tempted to say give me a week, and I can write something more engaging, but I worry I'd come off worse.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 22, 2012, 03:35:33 pm
Isn't every star in the galaxy a shining star?Brown Dwarf stars shine.
Post by: Knight of Fools on March 22, 2012, 05:39:27 pm
In space, no one can smell your stench.
Post by: MrWiggles on March 22, 2012, 05:43:09 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: MaximumZero on March 22, 2012, 09:50:02 pm
*HURK*
Post by: PTTG?? on March 23, 2012, 01:07:27 am
Post by: mattie2009 on March 23, 2012, 11:37:47 am
(http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/916211944/the-chronicles-of-avalon/comments)
Post by: lordcooper on March 23, 2012, 11:40:19 am
Warning: High-level dreamcrushing ahead
(http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/916211944/the-chronicles-of-avalon/comments)
Ouch
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on March 23, 2012, 11:57:36 am
Warning: High-level dreamcrushing aheadyou call that dream crushing? i call that a very constructive, very mild criticism, seasoned with abundant encouragement , served on a plate of false hope.
(http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/916211944/the-chronicles-of-avalon/comments)
Post by: PTTG?? on March 23, 2012, 12:04:06 pm
That "has" kind of moved in uninvited...
Post by: Zangi on March 23, 2012, 12:11:15 pm
Gonna have to agree. Dream crushing tends to not err on the side of encouragement, has more criticism and possibly thinly veiled attacks on the person in question too. That last one is optional though.Warning: High-level dreamcrushing aheadyou call that dream crushing? i call that a very constructive, very mild criticism, seasoned with abundant encouragement , served on a plate of false hope.
(http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/916211944/the-chronicles-of-avalon/comments)
Post by: Tilla on March 23, 2012, 01:18:39 pm
Post by: Zangi on March 23, 2012, 01:24:05 pm
Maybe they could even have their donators recommend/nominate a few... then by process of polling elimination? At least then, you'd have some sort of quality control... maybe.
Post by: lordcooper on March 23, 2012, 01:38:51 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on March 23, 2012, 06:34:30 pm
The thing that bugs me with that kick starter, isn't the badly figured out award tiers that undermine his own goal, or the grievous and frequent grammar/spelling errors, it's his arrogance, and ignorance.
Seriously, the guy is so well assured that his novel is stupefying, that'll be the next Harry Potter, and no matter your opinion on Harry Potter, I think we can all agree that Harry Potter is going to be a novel series that is going to be sticking around for a while.
And from what's publicly available, he doesn't really have anything special at all, and overall a poor command of language.
----------
Also OP can you move this thread to general discussion? This thread seem to have move beyond just bad video games, but about kickstarter blacksheep in general.
Post by: mattie2009 on March 23, 2012, 08:10:07 pm
Quote@MARK WILLETT, MR BARTLETT ALREADY HAS $42,000,000. THIS LAST MILLION IS JUST TO REALLY PUT THIS GAME OVER THE TOP.
*cough*
if he had that much money, why would he ask for 1.1M more?
and where did he get that information from?
but yeah, I have a feeling this will crash and burn.
Because more money, MORE MONEY!
MUAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA- *ahem*...
Indeed.
Post by: Wayward Device on March 23, 2012, 10:58:47 pm
Does anyone know the upper limit for a funding goal? I've got this terrible urge to create a well written, carefully costed and meticulously laid out proposal asking for $735,547,055 to Create a New City of Atlantis, now with optional Moon Laser. Donations over $10 million guarantees a button in your office that opens a trapdoor, dropping supplicants into a lava flow/rancor pit. Warning: You must provide your own supplicants.
Anyone in? $10 will get you a promise that we won't shoot the Moon Laser in your direction unless we're bored.
Post by: Draco18s on March 23, 2012, 11:03:27 pm
Does anyone know the upper limit for a funding goal? I've got this terrible urge to create a well written, carefully costed and meticulously laid out proposal asking for $735,547,055 to Create a New City of Atlantis, now with optional Moon Laser. Donations over $10 million guarantees a button in your office that opens a trapdoor, dropping supplicants into a lava flow/rancor pit. Warning: You must provide your own supplicants.
Anyone in? $10 will get you a promise that we won't shoot the Moon Laser in your direction unless we're bored.
Sorry, but you'd be rejected. You can't start a project that involves real estate. ;)
Post by: zombie urist on March 23, 2012, 11:05:05 pm
Post by: Aklyon on March 23, 2012, 11:10:46 pm
Post by: zombie urist on March 23, 2012, 11:15:27 pm
I thought Adventure Quest was already a game, though.
I meant graphics-wise. If I saw this game anywhere else I would have thought it was part of AQ.
Post by: Microcline on March 24, 2012, 02:14:59 am
I'm inclined to be distrustful of projects under $10,000, as if the creator doesn't trust the idea enough to fund it, why should I?
Oh god-i-don't-believe-in, you people made me read this whole thread. I nearly broke a rib laughing. The best bit by far was Thera. Its already been mentioned but "Thera is a computer game." followed by two minutes of silence. I almost ruptured myself. To think, less than 150 years ago you would have had to pay a shilling to gawk at the mentally ill.The funniest part of that video is that the only major difference between that kid and ZUN is that ZUN never posted a few hours worth of coding and spriting (and that's being generous) on Kickstarter expecting $5000.
Well, that and a copious amount of alcohol.
I'm still puzzled by the request for $5000. It's both too big and too small to be realistic. It's way to much to expect for an amateur shmup/danmaku (everyone's first coding product) and way to little to provide living expenses for a one-man team for any reasonable amount of time.
Post by: Capntastic on March 24, 2012, 04:41:02 am
As stated in the above article, I joined Kickstarter mainly to support Greg Stolze's writing career since he's an all around good dude. Along the way I've pledged about [redacted] on all sorts of projects. But yeah, it's fun to gawk at some of the worst ones.
I can't find it now, but there was one by some guy who was basically Nice Pete from Achewood wanting to raise money for a book about the history of sweepstakes, or something. There was also something about, I dunno, cell phones being the devil.
I contacted the Thera guy and suggested that ZUN's business model for Touhou relies on its brand recognition a huge amount, and that no one is going to want to drop fifty dollars on a PyGame MSpaint thing. He seemed sort of understanding, at least.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/230165553/game-history-book-high-score-3rd-edition This is a pretty awful one, but not for immediately obvious reasons. As I stated on another forum:
Quote
"Wow, they limited the "donate 30$ dollars and get a copy" to 25 copies, so now you can only get a copy from the KS if you donate 50 dollars. Pre-orders on Amazon are about 32 dollars, with the estimated final price being 50 dollars. It's kind of shooting yourself in the foot to not cut your more fervent fans a deal, especially when without them nothing will be made. As much as it'd be great to rely solely on kindness, not as many are gonna rush to get in on the ground floor of a project without some sort of incentive.
I mean, the Wasteland 2 KS went off like a rocket and I feel certain to attribute that to it having a sense of "give us 15 dollars now for a copy of a 50 dollar game in two years", which many see as a sort of investment on top of the altruistic intent of the action."
The author caught wind of this and hemmed and hawed about how he's paying for the promotional copies out of pocket, at which point I basically indicated, as bluntly as possible, that if he's expected to raise the money on his own, pay for his own promotional materials, do the work, arrange the contacts, etc, what use is the publisher? They won't even give him ebook copies to give out as rewards- he is expected to pay full price for each of them- which severely limits pledges. It's an expoitative Kickstarter, but not in the usual sense.
Post by: lordcooper on March 24, 2012, 05:56:13 am
I have had fun experiences with Kickstarter (http://www.brodzkybooks.com/kickstalled-mother-elephant-republicans/)
It might be worth pointing out that there is also a liberal version: http://motherdonkeynurseryrhymes.com/
Post by: Capntastic on March 24, 2012, 06:44:24 am
Consider that my article, which I rattled off for personal laughs*, has more craft in it than their find/replacing of Nursery Rhymes. The only thing anyone did worth anything was the art. The article exists solely to indicate how banal their attempt is, and in that way I'm literally acting under the Universe's orders to fill the void of negative creative pressure.
*The MKULTRA joke is gold, you philistines!
Post by: Megaman on March 24, 2012, 01:40:24 pm
Quote
John Romero and Brenda Brathwaite have generously offered to meet with up to 10 people for a dinner at a gourmet Mexican restaurant - and it's their treat! That's right, they'll even buy you dinner. I can't thank them enough. More details to come.This has to be a lie of some sort
Post by: nenjin on March 24, 2012, 03:26:29 pm
QuoteJohn Romero and Brenda Brathwaite have generously offered to meet with up to 10 people for a dinner at a gourmet Mexican restaurant - and it's their treat! That's right, they'll even buy you dinner. I can't thank them enough. More details to come.This has to be a lie of some sort
You can have your choice of the combo Enchilada Platter or Fajitas. Drinks are not covered. So lucky!
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on March 24, 2012, 03:43:15 pm
I have had fun experiences with Kickstarter (http://www.brodzkybooks.com/kickstalled-mother-elephant-republicans/)
Quote
You can pre-order one copy of the book for $25 dollars, two copies for $50, and so on, all the way to eight for $400.Basic math, how does it work?
Post by: Dr. D on March 24, 2012, 05:58:09 pm
Otherwise, hurray for Schadenfreude!
Post by: JoshuaFH on March 24, 2012, 07:45:18 pm
He gets bonus points if he backpedals, fixes up some of the outlandish stuff, and makes it a MUD.
Post by: ggamer on March 24, 2012, 09:00:29 pm
As insane as this is, it's not without precedent. At least one of you has to remember A Gang of Daggers (http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/31935/a-gang-of-daggers-high-school-kids-war-action-adventure). They're of the same breed, in the same way that a lemur and King Kong are of the same breed.
What the hell did I just read.
I
It's like All The King's Men meets The Hobbit meets Ikea Instructions: How to Build a Chair.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on March 24, 2012, 10:15:56 pm
On the opposite end of the spectrum, I suppose the OotS one didn't count as a miracle, considering the fanbase, but Rich Burlew's recently established Twitter is doing a "Kickstarter of the Week" that denotes a project that he considers worth funding.
The other one I've supported is for commissioning illustrations for the incredibly awesome and cool Legend RPG.
Post by: Sensei on March 25, 2012, 11:54:16 am
Quote from: Bartlett
If you want in on the beta you better get to donating. Even if this doesn't get funded now and I do find investors to do this only those who donated $10 or more will get beta testing. So all you $1 people who did it just to comment sorry! Some of the better comments may still get in, but the negative ones will not.This guy is willing to pay millions just be bad dungeon master. He doesn't stop saying hilarious things.
Post by: Draco18s on March 25, 2012, 12:16:27 pm
Essentially, make a smaller game before you attempt an MMO. Walk, then run.
Post by: JoshuaFH on March 25, 2012, 12:22:30 pm
Post by: kaijyuu on March 25, 2012, 01:22:55 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on March 25, 2012, 01:49:25 pm
Wish I could get $20,000 for a bullshit project I'd never finish.
Post by: lordcooper on March 25, 2012, 01:51:53 pm
Wish I could get $200,000 for a bullshit project I'd never finish.
I am more ambitious than you guys.
Post by: Draco18s on March 25, 2012, 03:54:17 pm
Wish I could get $200,000 for a bullshit project I'd never finish.
I am more ambitious than you guys.
Me too. :D
I'm getting $30,000 for a project I already finished!
Post by: Microcline on March 25, 2012, 06:39:15 pm
I'd say that in this case knowing IGF judges is far more lucrative. Not only did Phil Fish manage to scam the IGF out of $30,000, but he followed it up by declaring that Japanese games "just suck" and twittering that "gamers are the worst fucking people".Wish I could get $20,000 for a bullshit project I'd never finish.
Post by: JoshuaFH on March 25, 2012, 06:47:53 pm
Because even if the man is a delusional fool, it's this sort of stuff that makes the world a little more entertaining.
Post by: Servant Corps on March 28, 2012, 02:23:42 pm
Every time I see this thread, I immediately think "No, it's When Kickstarter goes RIGHT!"Kickstarter did it again with the award-winning kickstarter of an unrelased "JRPG"* game called Class of Heroes 2 (http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RobertBoyd/20120328/167405/A_Kickstarter_Without_a_Cause__Class_of_Heroes_2.php).
*Said JRPG is a clone of a Western RPG (Wizardy).
Post by: Karlito on March 28, 2012, 04:47:16 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 28, 2012, 04:52:58 pm
Oh man there was another update. Become a bard! Become a rock star!If they put in the Disciple of Metal (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19523298/The_Disciple_of_Metal_PrC_Bard) as a class I am so going to play this game.
Post by: Lord Dullard on March 28, 2012, 06:27:52 pm
I think this is caused by some of the larger, more successful Kickstarter projects (Wasteland 2, Double Fine). People without a lot of common sense see those and think 'hey, I can do that, too' - without grasping the simple fact that the reason those projects were successful is because of the amount of recognition those companies already had.
I don't know what the hell has to be going through some of these peoples' heads for them to ask for six figures for projects that can be completed by a single person. I mean, if you create the product first and it generates enough popularity to GET you six figures simply because of how cool it is, that's one thing. But to ask for $500 large right from the get-go just because... you need to be slapped upside the head with something large and unpleasant.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 28, 2012, 07:47:15 pm
But to ask for $500 large right from the get-go just because... you need to be slapped upside the head with something large and unpleasant.Like a bag full of money!
Post by: Dr. D on March 28, 2012, 08:03:49 pm
That might actually be amazing. Give a good reason for the "rock gods" to exist.
Post by: kaijyuu on March 28, 2012, 08:06:47 pm
Post by: Karlito on April 01, 2012, 10:44:29 am
Post by: blackmagechill on April 01, 2012, 10:53:04 am
Holy website design batman! (http://www.yourworldinc.com/)Oh geez my eyes
You'd think he could've paid somebody with any kind of talent to do that, or someone who did web design post 1998.
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on April 01, 2012, 10:56:06 am
Post by: JoshuaFH on April 01, 2012, 12:34:45 pm
In better kickstarters:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zombieapocalypse/arg-zombies-a-mobile-alternate-reality-zombie-game
Post by: Dr. D on April 01, 2012, 12:42:24 pm
Post by: Aqizzar on April 01, 2012, 12:46:59 pm
In better kickstarters:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zombieapocalypse/arg-zombies-a-mobile-alternate-reality-zombie-game
I might be sick to death of zombies, but that's actually a really cool idea. I remember that was the kind of gaming possibility first promised with "smartphones" and I can't wait to see it in practice. A survival action game, where the gameworld is based on where you actually are at the time.
I wonder how it will integrate the fact that smartphone gaming will be by people who commute back and forth between two or three normal places.
Post by: klingon13524 on April 01, 2012, 03:28:02 pm
Holy website design batman! (http://www.yourworldinc.com/)There's a thread for that you know.
Post by: Cthulhu on April 01, 2012, 04:00:04 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on April 01, 2012, 07:31:21 pm
Post by: sneakey pete on April 01, 2012, 07:57:52 pm
and his claims he has several million from running ONE pizza shop seems to be even more BS than this project ::)
yeah, this guy really is an idiot...
Um, he won 33 million in a lottery or something, not from running a pizza shop.
Post by: Scelly9 on April 01, 2012, 07:59:35 pm
Yeah, but he implies that several of his millions are from the pizza shop. About which I agree with Greatorder.and his claims he has several million from running ONE pizza shop seems to be even more BS than this project ::)
yeah, this guy really is an idiot...
Um, he won 33 million in a lottery or something, not from running a pizza shop.
Post by: ed boy on April 01, 2012, 08:02:13 pm
Holy website design batman! (http://www.yourworldinc.com/)Can someone post a screenie? My university claims that that's a high risk website and stoping me from seeing it.
Post by: Skyrunner on April 01, 2012, 08:06:49 pm
It's basically a flame background with hard-to-see text and a bunch of social media sharing buttons.
Post by: Scelly9 on April 01, 2012, 08:06:53 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Skyrunner on April 01, 2012, 08:09:37 pm
Post by: Fenrir on April 01, 2012, 08:11:16 pm
Space travel between servers makes me suppose that he does not know precisely what a server is.
Post by: lordcooper on April 01, 2012, 08:19:58 pm
Quote
Are you sick of games with item vendors who only sell useless items? This game will not have those vendors. Our vendors will sell green items or better at the lowest level to the highest level.
Green things are inherently better than some other things in any possible system.
Post by: Scelly9 on April 01, 2012, 08:21:31 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on April 01, 2012, 08:22:13 pm
I don't think that man is savvy enough to not be swindled, unless his lawyer helps him do everything >.>
As for green items... what? In this one mmorpg I played, it was white<sky blue<blue<purple<pink :P
Post by: Scelly9 on April 01, 2012, 08:25:56 pm
Post by: lordcooper on April 01, 2012, 08:27:43 pm
Hell knows what everyone else on the server actually sees while this is going on.
Post by: Skyrunner on April 01, 2012, 08:27:59 pm
Post by: Scelly9 on April 01, 2012, 08:28:56 pm
Post by: SomeStupidGuy on April 01, 2012, 08:45:00 pm
But this is far more amusing.
Anyone else hope this he'll get the money, and have his game crash and burn soon after.
Post by: Skyrunner on April 01, 2012, 08:48:17 pm
Post by: Scelly9 on April 01, 2012, 09:03:31 pm
Post by: Draco18s on April 01, 2012, 09:17:50 pm
Their joking. They know that it will never reach the goal.
If it was me, I'd cancel my pledge on the last day.
Post by: Skyrunner on April 01, 2012, 09:21:40 pm
Post by: lordcooper on April 01, 2012, 09:29:43 pm
Post by: SomeStupidGuy on April 01, 2012, 10:13:01 pm
Seriously, just think about it.
He has no clue what he's doing, has (probably closer to had now) a few million dollars, & he's hilariously optimistic about this.
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 01, 2012, 10:36:08 pm
Post by: Fenrir on April 01, 2012, 10:39:56 pm
Post by: Sensei on April 01, 2012, 10:42:09 pm
There ya go.Aw, you cut off the best part- the hideously prominent "Owner Login" button and "Powered by InstantPage® from GoDaddy.com" tab.
(Image of website)
Post by: PTTG?? on April 01, 2012, 11:17:28 pm
If this is going to be so fabulous, and if he is so rich, one wonders why he does not simply start hiring people to do this for him. Did his pizza shop have a Kickstarter page?
The worst part is, neither his personal wealth nor the kickstarter would be near enough to start an MMO.
Post by: lordcooper on April 01, 2012, 11:58:33 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 02, 2012, 12:32:49 am
Post by: lordcooper on April 02, 2012, 12:48:52 am
Quote from: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/120873716/your-world/posts/200284
Benjamin Walsh has been developing games both personally and professionally for over 15 years. Having been a producer and designer on multi-million dollar titles while at Bethesda Softworks and Big Huge Games, Ben brings leadership and product knowledge to our team. Ben’s credits include AMF Bowling Pinbusters, Star Trek : Conquest (Winner of IGN’s Game of the Month), Age of Empires 3: Asian Dynasties, and WET. He also played a key role in creating new concepts and platform strategies while at Bethesda Softworks.
Quote from: http://www.purebang.com/about.html
Benjamin Walsh has been developing games both personally and professionally for over 15 years. Having been a producer and designer on multi-million dollar titles while at Bethesda Softworks and Big Huge Games, Ben brings leadership and product knowledge to his role as CEO and President of Pure Bang Games. Ben’s credits include AMF Bowling Pinbusters, Star Trek : Conquest (Winner of IGN’s Game of the Month), Age of Empires 3: Asian Dynasties, and WET. He also played a key role in creating new concepts and platform strategies while at Bethesda Softworks.
Apparently the guy makes shitty social games nowadays.
Post by: Servant Corps on April 03, 2012, 08:14:47 pm
Post by: kaijyuu on April 03, 2012, 08:16:50 pm
Just post something ludicrous, get famous for the absurdity, and roll in cash.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on April 03, 2012, 09:53:37 pm
Quote
Indie Gaming, I hope, will thrive in the face of dull, spiritless, cloned, big-budget games. Not every game created has to be the 'best game', but they could at least be fun. But what makes a game fun? To that I'd have to say that it's both a science and an art, and that it's purely subjective. Fun *should* be subjective, and that's what makes Indie Gaming so great: the games cost virtually nothing to produce, they can take greater risks, and they don't have to go through the 'creative' oversight of a publisher. I'm probably not telling you anything you don't already know, but I hope to at least share why I'm so passionate about the games I make.
Post by: nenjin on April 04, 2012, 08:45:36 am
Post by: Draco18s on April 04, 2012, 08:53:19 am
is it just me, or does he keep setting the final date further and further away the closer it gets to that date?
it's probably just me.
It's just you. You can't edit the ending date once you publish the kickstarter. Once it starts, you have a deadline.
Post by: lordcooper on April 04, 2012, 11:15:14 am
Post by: RedWarrior0 on April 04, 2012, 11:22:40 am
Is it going to be larger or smaller than WoW?
When he replies it will be bigger, ask how long he sees it taking to develop and how much money. A nice wikipedia search reveals WoW took 4-5 years to develop in its original form, and cost 63 million to make... And Blizzard had the brand identity, infrastructure, etc from the Warcraft series. Not to mention the setting
Post by: Draco18s on April 04, 2012, 11:35:22 am
Post by: lordcooper on April 04, 2012, 11:36:01 am
Post by: Skyrunner on April 04, 2012, 11:38:21 am
He's doing a Q&A over here (http://www.justin.tv/yourworldinc) on Saturday the 14th at 4pm. Anyone fancy joining me?
How do you ask questions? Chat? I think I might be able to watch.
Post by: lordcooper on April 04, 2012, 11:40:00 am
Post by: Karlito on April 04, 2012, 12:34:31 pm
He's doing a Q&A over here (http://www.justin.tv/yourworldinc) on Saturday the 14th at 4pm. Anyone fancy joining me?I like how he didn't specify a time zone. I know it's EDT, since he lives in Maryland, but it's almost like he's never used the internet before.
Post by: Skyrunner on April 04, 2012, 12:39:45 pm
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on April 04, 2012, 12:40:22 pm
When Kickstarter goes right (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1613260297/shadowrun-returns). Oh man, do want.ALL. MY. MONEY.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: lordcooper on April 04, 2012, 12:45:14 pm
When Kickstarter goes right (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1613260297/shadowrun-returns). Oh man, do want.ALL. MY. MONEY.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Damn it. Including Kickstarter, pre-orders and alpha funding, I have now paid for 23 games that do not exist yet.
Post by: nenjin on April 04, 2012, 01:08:08 pm
When Kickstarter goes right (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1613260297/shadowrun-returns). Oh man, do want.
FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKK YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
Post by: DJ on April 04, 2012, 01:33:30 pm
I'm still puzzled by the request for $5000. It's both too big and too small to be realistic. It's way to much to expect for an amateur shmup/danmaku (everyone's first coding product) and way to little to provide living expenses for a one-man team for any reasonable amount of time.Depends on where the developer lives. I could live (modestly) on $5000 for a year, which should be enough time to make a fairly complete sidescroller or even a short isometric RPG. Hm, now I'm actually thinking about trying it when I get a functional demo. Do freeware games without donation rewards do reasonably well on Kickstarter?
Post by: PTTG?? on April 04, 2012, 01:51:52 pm
Post by: Scelly9 on April 04, 2012, 01:54:59 pm
When Kickstarter goes right (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1613260297/shadowrun-returns). Oh man, do want.Damn. Now I need money again.
Post by: Draco18s on April 04, 2012, 02:11:31 pm
When Kickstarter goes right (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1613260297/shadowrun-returns). Oh man, do want.ALL. MY. MONEY.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Damn it. Including Kickstarter, pre-orders and alpha funding, I have now paid for 23 games that do not exist yet.
FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKK YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
Damn. Now I need money again.
*Evil laughter*
Post by: RedWarrior0 on April 04, 2012, 05:13:24 pm
"What? How? Why?" you ask.
I cannot say. I can say when: It will be right between R'lyeh resurfacing and Cthulhu eating everyone.
Post by: Cthulhu on April 04, 2012, 05:37:48 pm
Post by: MaximumZero on April 04, 2012, 05:40:14 pm
Post by: Servant Corps on April 04, 2012, 11:22:40 pm
EDIT:
Quote
The guilds currency will be increased via completion of quests and anything that gives you currency. So say you go out and kill a Pirate and you get 100g for that kill. The guild bank will get a % of that amount, We are not saying you will get less. The Pirate will give you 100g and then let’s use 10% will go to the guild bank so it will receive 10g. You will not get a lower amount like 90g to you and 10g to the guild bank, you will still get 100g and the guild bank gets 10g.::) Cancel writing the design doc as well.
PVP Games:
1. Gladiator Attack Ball – The object is to be the 1st to get the ball at the center of the field and hold it there. If you step out of the center the ball will be reset. You can pass the ball to other players, but you run the risk of the other team intercepting the ball. The team that reaches 3 minutes of ball time or the team with the most minutes at the end of 10 minutes wins the match. Game begins with a min of 5 players and max of 10.
Post by: Megaman on April 05, 2012, 01:04:17 am
Post by: scriver on April 05, 2012, 01:16:33 am
Post by: kaijyuu on April 05, 2012, 01:22:28 am
What is this, Disney?
Post by: Megaman on April 05, 2012, 01:22:54 am
Post by: MrWiggles on April 05, 2012, 01:23:31 am
Monetizing dreams?
What is this, Disney?
Isn't it a common dream to make a living off your creative endeavors?
It's what I want to do.
Post by: Megaman on April 05, 2012, 01:27:00 am
Quote from: Cpt.Bartlett
you want this game made so you can play it. :-)
...
That's...
I guess there's just some video games you can't play a game with.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: kaijyuu on April 05, 2012, 01:27:37 am
The joke was the buying and selling of dreams themselves sounds like something Disney (the company) would do, being the peddler of positive emotion with the ethics of a drug cartel. Gaining money on the side while pursuing one's dream is a normal thingamajig.
And now...
dontexplainthejoke.jpg
Post by: Lord Dullard on April 05, 2012, 12:05:37 pm
Here's a good example of 'Content is King'.
That's actually a pretty well-done video, but that project will never receive the kind of funding they're asking for. The reason is simple: they barely tell us anything about the damned game.
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 05, 2012, 12:08:27 pm
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/brokenbulb/ninja-warz?ref=category
Here's a good example of 'Content is King'.
That's actually a pretty well-done video, but that project will never receive the kind of funding they're asking for. The reason is simple: they barely tell us anything about the damned game.
The problem with that project is this:
Quote
So what happens if we make our goal?
As soon as we’ve reached $285,000, we’ll begin the concept phase for Ninja Warz. Taking some inspiration from great RTS titles of the past and combining it with our unique world, we’ll create a plethora of characters and creatures to be controlled within the game. We’ll also lay out controls and mechanics specifically designed for touch screen devices.
Next concept art and prototyping will begin and quickly give way to the final components that will make it into the game. Finally we’ll thoroughly test and refine until we have a perfectly polished gem of ninja battliness.
In other words, they have no fucking clue what the game will be about. They want $285k from you based solely on a video they worked up over a weekend, and they won't even start working on the game's concept phase until they get that $285k.
At least Elwood has a concept already, and is working out what he wants in his game. As silly and unrealistic as it may be, he has the concepts and ideas down.
Hell I may as well put up a kickstarter saying "Hey if you guys pay my housing + college costs for the next 2 years I will totally learn programming and maybe even think about making a game out of this awesome video my buddy made yesterday!"
Post by: nenjin on April 05, 2012, 12:25:32 pm
I'm all about diving all over Kickstarter pipe dreams, but this seemed pretty legit to me. Am I missing something?
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 05, 2012, 12:27:59 pm
Did you miss the part where they've already shipped a game before and are basically going to do another version of it through Unity?If they've already released the game and just want to port it to unity, I don't see where the $285,000 cost is. Maybe I'm missing something then.
I'm all about diving all over Kickstarter pipe dreams, but this seemed pretty legit to me. Am I missing something?
Post by: Lord Dullard on April 05, 2012, 12:34:40 pm
Did you miss the part where they've already shipped a game before and are basically going to do another version of it through Unity?
I'm all about diving all over Kickstarter pipe dreams, but this seemed pretty legit to me. Am I missing something?
I'll simply reiterate what I said before: they barely tell us anything about the damned game. Except 'it's been played by millions on Facebook'. That may well be the case, but it doesn't tell me jack s***, and I certainly can't be bothered to go play it on Facebook, since I hate Facebook games with a passion.
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 05, 2012, 12:54:54 pm
1. Porting a flash game to unity, which isn't terribly difficult if it is somewhat time consuming. It shouldn't require new art assets, just some work. If this is the case, I don't see why they need 285 thousand dollars and I don't see why they need to 'start on the concept phase' if they already have the game and millions of people love it.
2. Making an entirely new game in unity which shares a theme with a facebook game they made. If this is the case, they want the 285k before even starting on the conceptual stage of this new game.
Post by: JoshuaFH on April 05, 2012, 01:02:47 pm
Post by: PTTG?? on April 05, 2012, 01:03:06 pm
Post by: JoshuaFH on April 05, 2012, 01:03:51 pm
Yeah, they're going to need new art assets to change from 2D to 3D... It's a lot of cash to ask for, but there's nothing really terrible about the concept.
Because there's no concept?
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 05, 2012, 01:08:10 pm
Yeah, they're going to need new art assets to change from 2D to 3D... It's a lot of cash to ask for, but there's nothing really terrible about the concept.So they're doing a completely new game with a similar theme and will not even start on the concept phase until the kickstarter money goal is reached, according to what they have said there. You don't see the problem here?
Basically at this point they have on the idea board:
Game with ninjas
Unity
3D
Kickstarter Money ($285k!!)
And they will not go beyond that stage until they have money. They have no idea to show us, no concept of what the game will be (ninjas duh!) and will not even START on that concept until they are fully funded.
Also: Did anyone notice the Shadowrun kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1613260297/shadowrun-returns) was fully funded in less than 24 hours?
Post by: Draco18s on April 05, 2012, 01:43:23 pm
Also: Did anyone notice the Shadowrun kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1613260297/shadowrun-returns) was fully funded in less than 24 hours?
I had. Considering that I found it via another forum (http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=36999). ;)
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on April 05, 2012, 04:36:09 pm
Post by: Aklyon on April 05, 2012, 05:50:54 pm
RPS article abouts it (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/04/05/the-space-race-starlight-inceptions-a-kickstarter-space-sim/)
Post by: nenjin on April 05, 2012, 05:54:04 pm
I'm waiting for a WhiteWolf game to show up on kickstarter. I'd frenzy over it.
I think CCP owns the rights to WW now, so I highly doubt you'll see it on Kickstarter unless they're the ones to do it. And they're already several years into the WoD MMO.
Post by: lordcooper on April 05, 2012, 08:05:15 pm
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/brokenbulb/ninja-warz?ref=category
Here's a good example of 'Content is King'.
That's actually a pretty well-done video, but that project will never receive the kind of funding they're asking for. The reason is simple: they barely tell us anything about the damned game.
1,436 people like this. Be the first of your friends.
$1,477
PLEDGED OF $285,000 GOAL
Makes no sense.
E: Also, I refuse to pay for their marketing. It was a really stupid idea for them to mention that.
2.E: Where were all these folks who are complaining about lack of a concept when Schafer was doing his Kickstarter? /devils advocate
Post by: Aklyon on April 05, 2012, 08:26:56 pm
The ninja guys are nowhere near as well known, don't seem to have made much besides a popular facebook game, and generally have much less to lose if they don't actually finish the game.
Post by: mainiac on April 05, 2012, 08:36:30 pm
The old website actually had some more stuff on it, don't know what happened.
I was chilling in their room and saw him doing this concept art and I asked him what he was doing. He explained that he was making vaporware. He just liked trolling people by promising this stuff, getting them discussing it and then disappearing once he some people interested.
Post by: Draco18s on April 05, 2012, 08:41:11 pm
A space combat game? (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/732317316/starlight-inceptiontm)
RPS article abouts it (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/04/05/the-space-race-starlight-inceptions-a-kickstarter-space-sim/)
I have mixed feelings about this one.
Post by: SomeStupidGuy on April 06, 2012, 05:05:40 am
This thread reminded me of this vaporware that my friends roommate was making a while back: http://www.crownsandrebels.com/That's kinda evil, hilarious but evil.
The old website actually had some more stuff on it, don't know what happened.
I was chilling in their room and saw him doing this concept art and I asked him what he was doing. He explained that he was making vaporware. He just liked trolling people by promising this stuff, getting them discussing it and then disappearing once he some people interested.
A space combat game? (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/732317316/starlight-inceptiontm)Looks neat I guess, not my kind of game though. Shame they haven't been doing too well.
RPS article abouts it (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/04/05/the-space-race-starlight-inceptions-a-kickstarter-space-sim/)
Post by: Aklyon on April 06, 2012, 07:01:34 am
Post by: nenjin on April 06, 2012, 08:37:31 am
Post by: MrWiggles on April 06, 2012, 08:52:27 am
I think that's Assholeware.+1
----
What I'm getting out of the Ninja Game, is that they want to larger, maybe more in depth version of their social facebook game, minus the social aspect of it (maybe.)
So I think we're suppose to infere that if we want to know what their ninja game is going to be like then we're going to need to check out their facebook game.
Sorta of a weird incidental (maybe?) advert to play it?
----
Also what's wrong with paying for marketing? Isn't part of the goal of kickstarter is to get funding to make your product so it can be successful?
Marketing is (in part) about making something successful so that the masses at large are aware of your product.
Post by: nenjin on April 06, 2012, 09:02:51 am
Quote
Also what's wrong with paying for marketing? Isn't part of the goal of kickstarter is to get funding to make your product so it can be successful?
Marketing is (in part) about making something successful so that the masses at large are aware of your product.
To me, that falls into exactly the same trap major publishers set up. Overhead. Consider what Schaffer managed to do with just a video they shot and edited, and word of mouth. That's indie advertising. When someone wants $50,000 to pay a professional PR person to market their game.....that doesn't seem like indie so much as its trading on the indie spirit to pay for things indie gamers could care less about.
Post by: MrWiggles on April 06, 2012, 09:17:01 am
Schaffer shouldn't be looked at as a model to follow/hope for. Order of the Stick and Double Fine success with Kickstarter is anomalous. And word of mouth is extremely unfair way to get your product/service known about. If you want folks to know you exist, you're going to need to do advertisement.QuoteAlso what's wrong with paying for marketing? Isn't part of the goal of kickstarter is to get funding to make your product so it can be successful?
Marketing is (in part) about making something successful so that the masses at large are aware of your product.
To me, that falls into exactly the same trap major publishers set up. Overhead. Consider what Schaffer managed to do with just a video they shot and edited, and word of mouth. That's indie advertising. When someone wants $50,000 to pay a professional PR person to market their game.....that doesn't seem like indie so much as its trading on the indie spirit to pay for things indie gamers could care less about.
We see indy advertisement a lot on Bay12 itself, even getting developers and project leaders for indy/small games on the forum to advert their products. I dont really see how that's different then hiring a third party to do it for them. They both have their pro's and con's, but more or less achieve a similar thing. Product Awareness and Good Public Face.
And I dont see how wanting to advertise goes against the indy spirit. You do have folks like ToadyOne and ThreeToe which are fine to stay at the level their at, but I dont think most Indy creators would terribly mind to have mild/great success with their products and maybe even make money from them. (Assuming it's the type of product where that can happen.)
Do you really think Notch went, "Oh man, now I'm a millionaire, fuck me." Or the indy team that made Counter Strike? Or the Indy team that making DotA 2? ~ "Damn it, now I can't make my game because suddenly I have finically fisible future with my creative endeavor."
Or what about the folks that made DropBox? They turned down Apple fairly generous bid to buy them, but they decided to stay their own course and make their product successful on their own (with probably other VC funding.)
I don't really see how being Successful or trying to be successful is against the Indy Spirit.
Post by: Draco18s on April 06, 2012, 09:21:40 am
Schaffer shouldn't be looked at as a model to follow/hope for. Order of the Stick and Double Fine success with Kickstarter is anomalous. And word of mouth is extremely unfair way to get your product/service known about. If you want folks to know you exist, you're going to need to do advertisement.
Indeed. I know how that is, the project I'm involved in didn't take off until Kickstarter featured us in their weekly newsletter.
24 hours -> $11,000 (of a $4000 goal).
Post by: Megaman on April 06, 2012, 09:47:17 am
Post by: Lord Dullard on April 06, 2012, 09:52:14 am
Schaffer shouldn't be looked at as a model to follow/hope for. Order of the Stick and Double Fine success with Kickstarter is anomalous. And word of mouth is extremely unfair way to get your product/service known about. If you want folks to know you exist, you're going to need to do advertisement.
Indeed. I know how that is, the project I'm involved in didn't take off until Kickstarter featured us in their weekly newsletter.
24 hours -> $11,000 (of a $4000 goal).
I had a prior Kickstarter campaigner comment something to that effect on Cult's dev-blog. Basically it was 'Kickstarter sucks, guys like you and me have no hope, the only projects that get anywhere are the ones they feature'. My initial thought was well, with that great attitude it's a wonder you weren't wildly successful, but I suspect he had a point (despite the fact that I checked out his project and found it to be rather poorly realized and somewhat uninteresting). It's part of the reason I'm hoping to get at least a bit of exposure built up prior to the campaign, just in case Kickstarter decides my chances are too poor to bother with helping me out.
Post by: Draco18s on April 06, 2012, 09:57:57 am
I had a prior Kickstarter campaigner comment something to that effect on Cult's dev-blog. Basically it was 'Kickstarter sucks, guys like you and me have no hope, the only projects that get anywhere are the ones they feature'. My initial thought was well, with that great attitude it's a wonder you weren't wildly successful, but I suspect he had a point (despite the fact that I checked out his project and found it to be rather poorly realized and somewhat uninteresting). It's part of the reason I'm hoping to get at least a bit of exposure built up prior to the campaign, just in case Kickstarter decides my chances are too poor to bother with helping me out.
BoardGameGeek was all pretentious with the "you're not offering physical copies up front, you're going to fail."
I got to come back later with a passive aggressive "We made our goal and then some! As of this post we're at 171% and rocketing upwards! We're offering physical copies now!" As a subtle nose-snubbing.
Post by: nenjin on April 06, 2012, 10:10:48 am
Quote
We see indy advertisement a lot on Bay12 itself, even getting developers and project leaders for indy/small games on the forum to advert their products. I dont really see how that's different then hiring a third party to do it for them. They both have their pro's and con's, but more or less achieve a similar thing. Product Awareness and Good Public Face.
Yeah, indie devs here type up a forum post. That's different than paying someone several thousand dollars to spam the internet, call journalists, make videos and add to your overhead by doing so.
You can get public awareness very easily without those methods. And in a way that's more in keeping with indie development.
Quote
And word of mouth is extremely unfair way to get your product/service known about.
Unfair? In what way? It's arguably THE MOST fair because it's completely about the idea and not about how much money you have to launch a blitz media campaign.
Quote
And I dont see how wanting to advertise goes against the indy spirit. You do have folks like ToadyOne and ThreeToe which are fine to stay at the level their at, but I dont think most Indy creators would terribly mind to have mild/great success with their products and maybe even make money from them. (Assuming it's the type of product where that can happen.)
If Toady started taking 10% of his monthly earnings to pay an ad agency to run Dwarf Fortress ads, yes, that would change the nature of the beast for me. This is quickly becoming to me "professional devs who are used to making games in the AAA publisher market" versus "damn near every other indie dev who isn't worrying about marketing or supporting a 15-man team." When people start crowdsourcing out their overhead, rather than trying to crowd source support for their idea, that's when I think it's taking advantage of the promise of indie games.
Quote
Or the Indy team that making DotA 2?
You mean the DoTA2 that's bought and paid for by Valve Corp?
Quote
There's an 'indie spirit'? As far as I understand being overly-proud of being 'indie' makes your a pretentious douchebag.
Sort of like being a one-line commenter makes you a douchebag? I mean as long as we're implying things about each other....
I have no issues with people trying to be successful. I have many issues with how they try to be successful (and that includes some indie devs who have posted in these very forums), particularly when they're asking gamers to foot the bill for overhead and maintaining they're not pulling the same stunts in the AAA market that people are sick of.
Post by: Zangi on April 06, 2012, 10:20:26 am
Schaffer shouldn't be looked at as a model to follow/hope for. Order of the Stick and Double Fine success with Kickstarter is anomalous. And word of mouth is extremely unfair way to get your product/service known about. If you want folks to know you exist, you're going to need to do advertisement.
Indeed. I know how that is, the project I'm involved in didn't take off until Kickstarter featured us in their weekly newsletter.
24 hours -> $11,000 (of a $4000 goal).
What is your kickstarter project anyways?
Post by: nenjin on April 06, 2012, 10:21:46 am
Post by: Zangi on April 06, 2012, 10:25:45 am
Was looking for a thread posted by Draco18s... other then the Drawception one. Didn't see any in the last 5 pages/February.
Post by: Draco18s on April 06, 2012, 10:35:56 am
Ah.. the CCG part may have been why I totally skipped it.
Was looking for a thread posted by Draco18s... other then the Drawception one. Didn't see any in the last 5 pages/February.
Try this thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=99825).
It's not a collectible card game. It's a card game the same way Race for the Galaxy is a card game.
(I.e. a board game that uses only cards)
Post by: Servant Corps on April 06, 2012, 12:50:15 pm
Quote
Yeah, indie devs here type up a forum post. That's different than paying someone several thousand dollars to spam the internet, call journalists, make videos and add to your overhead by doing so.Not particularly. It's still advertising. And indie devs' ads can be just as annoying as "professional" game developers...probably even more so if the indie dev advertise a game that I don't particularly care about.
Time is money, so if you're wasting time spamming the internet, calling journalists, and making videos, it's the same as you paying money for someone else to do so.
Quote
When people start crowdsourcing out their overhead, rather than trying to crowd source support for their idea, that's when I think it's taking advantage of the promise of indie games.There is no promise of indie games. Indie games are just about "independence" for the game developer, to be allowed to do what he wants, not what the "community" wants. If Today wants to set aside 10% of his donated income, then he is still being indie, because he's the one deciding what to do with HIS money. Now, if someone told Toady to set aside 10% of his donated income, then he's no longer indie; he's taking orders. Even a multi-million-dollar private individual is still an indie developer, but the minute he goes public and becomes accountable to shareholders and a CEO, then he has "sold out" and became non-indie.
Also, I find the idea of begging money to other people to fund your idea to be incredibly exploitative to the consumer, no matter if you're crowdsourcing overhead or 'support' or whatever. Because the consumer has no accountability over the process; all he really gets is just sweet-sounding words and smiles from a indie developer (who is probably just as greedy and cynical as his non-indie counterparts). If anything, I want the crowdsource of ideas and programming, you know, crowdsource the actual game, as opposed to just throwing money at a developer who's free to spend it as he please.
Post by: nenjin on April 06, 2012, 12:57:30 pm
Quote
Not particularly. It's still advertising. And indie devs' ads can be just as annoying as "professional" game developers...probably even more so if the indie dev advertise a game that I don't particularly care about.
It's different when it affects the final price point. There's nothing stopping an indie dev from going "my game should cost $10 more per unit because I spent time on the internet promoting it."
On the other hand, when they hire people to do that stuff for them, they don't get the choice to simply not pay those people. Therefore, to me, how a company chooses to handle their advertising (among other things) has an impact on the final price point. And those that seem to be loading their game up with extra costs aren't ones I'm going to rush out to donate to. Especially when they're doing the full-court, social media press. It's like "Ok, so I'm effectively getting charged extra because you hired someone to troll Facebook and spam forums."
Post by: Servant Corps on April 06, 2012, 12:59:23 pm
It's different when it affects the final price point.Fair enough.
EDIT: I do wonder however that the thought process of a developer that is confident enough to advertise his product, but not confident enough to fund the game by themselves and instead has to go to Kickstarter to raise money.
Post by: Lord Dullard on April 06, 2012, 01:03:56 pm
QuoteYeah, indie devs here type up a forum post. That's different than paying someone several thousand dollars to spam the internet, call journalists, make videos and add to your overhead by doing so.Not particularly. It's still advertising. And indie devs' ads can be just as annoying as "professional" game developers...probably even more so if the indie dev advertise a game that I don't particularly care about.
Time is money, so if you're wasting time spamming the internet, calling journalists, and making videos, it's the same as you paying money for someone else to do so.QuoteWhen people start crowdsourcing out their overhead, rather than trying to crowd source support for their idea, that's when I think it's taking advantage of the promise of indie games.There is no promise of indie games. Indie games are just about "independence" for the game developer, to be allowed to do what he wants, not what the "community" wants. If Today wants to set aside 10% of his donated income, then he is still being indie, because he's the one deciding what to do with HIS money. Now, if someone told Toady to set aside 10% of his donated income, then he's no longer indie; he's taking orders. Even a multi-million-dollar private individual is still an indie developer, but the minute he goes public and becomes accountable to shareholders and a CEO, then he has "sold out" and became non-indie.
Also, I find the idea of begging money to other people to fund your idea to be incredibly exploitative to the consumer, no matter if you're crowdsourcing overhead or 'support' or whatever. Because the consumer has no accountability over the process; all he really gets is just sweet-sounding words and smiles from a indie developer (who is probably just as greedy and cynical as his non-indie counterparts). If anything, I want the crowdsource of ideas and programming, you know, crowdsource the actual game, as opposed to just throwing money at a developer who's free to spend it as he please.
It's pretty ridiculous of you to broadbrush all developers as 'cynical and greedy'.
If you dislike crowdfunding, well, you're certainly not obligated to try it. On the other hand, if people crowdfund something and receive what they expect in return, it's hardly your right to tell them they were exploited. Developers are individuals and there is no reason to assume they are all dicks who are out to exploit the public.
By your reasoning, a publisher who funds a game or product before it is completely realized is being 'exploited' by the developer because they're footing the bill in advance. In fact, they're being exploited by an order of magnitude more than anybody who crowdfunds, since an individual who donates towards a Kickstarter-esque campaign is only funding a very small portion of the overall cost.
Post by: nenjin on April 06, 2012, 01:06:09 pm
Post by: Lord Dullard on April 06, 2012, 01:06:44 pm
Post by: Servant Corps on April 06, 2012, 01:15:30 pm
If you dislike crowdfunding, well, you're certainly not obligated to try it. On the other hand, if people crowdfund something and receive what they expect in return, it's hardly your right to tell them they were exploited.Here's the dirty secret; Kickstarter is based on the "honor system", so there is a real chance that a people can crowdfund something and not receive anything in return. This has happened before, according to a SomethingAwful post:
Quote from: thepopstalinist
Consider that, in the realm of music, this dude (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/legupmgmt/deacon-animal-collective-at-the-festival-in-the) essentially bilked 205 people out of +$25k (he eventually farted out a scrapbook and a bad live recording way over schedule, IIRC) and nothing really happened. The dude got his all-expenses paid trip to Africa, and he's still making music with a very high-profile band.
I mean at what threshold does fraud go from being insignificant to something that the invisible hand of the free market cannot possibly allow? Because $25,000 is a lot of money.
Granted, it seems unlikely that any of these people are actually con artists but it stands to reason that at some point along the line there might be a hitch or a hardware failure or something that will cause a delay and scuttle the best laid plans of the developer. So it's less a danger of people taking the money and running and more a danger of people not delivering exactly what they promise when they promise to do so. The question is then whether fan investors will be more lenient than publishers have historically been.
And Kickstarter doesn't really care whether a project actually succeeds or not, they still get their portion of the donated money anyway. And with there being more game projects being established and funded through Kickstarter, there is a possibility we may have more situations like this occurring.
The "exploitation" metaphor was a bit overblown, but there really is no accountability and no input in the process of a Kickstarter-funded game. Publishers, on the other hand, get a share of the money involved, and possibly have some accountability to ensure developers do produce their products, so it's a different scenario.
I don't hate Kickstarter and I don't view developers as all bad people, but I also don't like optimism, especially when doing so has the potential to blind someone to real dangers. It's better than to be cynical than to rush idiotically into a trap.
Post by: Lord Dullard on April 06, 2012, 01:31:11 pm
I do agree that there should be more accountability involved in the process; promising rewards for campaigns like these should be binding in some way, i.e., there should be significant legal ramifications if you don't follow through. I don't know how plausible that is, but yeah, it certainly should be the case.
Post by: Draco18s on April 06, 2012, 01:43:10 pm
And Kickstarter doesn't really care whether a project actually succeeds or not, they still get their portion of the donated money anyway.
Considering that unsuccessful projects never charge their backers anything, no. Kickstarter does not get their "cut" if a project doesn't succeed. Well they do:
5% of Nothing.
But it's still nothing.
Post by: AlStar on April 06, 2012, 01:53:46 pm
And Kickstarter doesn't really care whether a project actually succeeds or not, they still get their portion of the donated money anyway.
Considering that unsuccessful projects never charge their backers anything, no. Kickstarter does not get their "cut" if a project doesn't succeed. Well they do:
5% of Nothing.
But it's still nothing.
I think he means unsuccessful as in 'never makes what they said they were going to', not unsuccessful as in 'doesn't make its funding goal.'
As far as I know (and that's not a whole lot, mind), as long as the project makes its funding goal by the end of its # of days, the cash is charged to investors, divvy'd up with Kickstarter, then... well, you better hope that you get the product you paid for.
(Note: I am currently funding 4 different Kickstarter projects - I am pro-Kickstarter)
Post by: Servant Corps on April 06, 2012, 02:20:36 pm
I think he means unsuccessful as in 'never makes what they said they were going to', not unsuccessful as in 'doesn't make its funding goal.'AlStar is right. I consider meeting funding goals as Step 1 of creating the actual product, as opposed to being be-all, end-all.
And Kickstarter gets its share when funding goals are met.
Post by: Zangi on April 06, 2012, 03:43:28 pm
Though, that would have a cascade effect, where if Kickstarter keeps letting in 'scammers', they would have to tighten up requirements and/or lose credibility, where-in, less people are willing to put money into Kickstarter projects, thinking that the next one may have some shitty 'developers' trying to get a quick buck out of Kickstarter.
Not so much of an impact with low profile Kickstarters, but if one of the big/prolific ones falls flat on their face...
Post by: PTTG?? on April 08, 2012, 09:09:56 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on April 08, 2012, 09:39:53 pm
Post by: Scelly9 on April 08, 2012, 10:35:00 pm
So as a rule of thumb, be 20% better than this project (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/hyurgi-crowd-sourcing.php) before submitting to kickstarter.Tha absolute fuck?
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 09, 2012, 06:46:35 am
There are no words... I mean...So as a rule of thumb, be 20% better than this project (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/hyurgi-crowd-sourcing.php) before submitting to kickstarter.Tha absolute fuck?
Quote
$10,000 USD TOP LEVEL all of other items plus I will name a vein in my biceb after you. There are six veins as thick as ropes and eleven veins as thick as a big string. First to come, first to service on these veins so better hurry if you want big vein.
:o
Post by: Trapezohedron on April 09, 2012, 07:08:44 am
There are no words... I mean...So as a rule of thumb, be 20% better than this project (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/hyurgi-crowd-sourcing.php) before submitting to kickstarter.Tha absolute fuck?Quote$10,000 USD TOP LEVEL all of other items plus I will name a vein in my biceb after you. There are six veins as thick as ropes and eleven veins as thick as a big string. First to come, first to service on these veins so better hurry if you want big vein.
:o
What? No really, what the frabbanaggin' fudge?
Post by: MrWiggles on April 09, 2012, 07:15:59 am
This meme image feels appropriate.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: RedWarrior0 on April 09, 2012, 09:38:32 am
Post by: MrWiggles on April 10, 2012, 07:58:07 am
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1140956590/call-connect/
After reading through it, it's a date sim. And well, I like Date Sims, it's a guilty pleasure. Though he seems to shy away from the term.
But overall, I'm putting it here, because it's getting funding and I think it's strikingly clear this person doesnt really know what he wants from his game, and cant really draw. I also dont think he understands the conventions he using for his characters. Srsly, all the picts of woman are all either aroused or in a sexual tension situation.
This shouldn't be getting funded.
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on April 10, 2012, 09:52:07 am
But overall, I'm putting it here, because it's getting funding and I think it's strikingly clear this person doesnt really know what he wants from his game, and cant really draw. I also dont think he understands the conventions he using for his characters. Srsly, all the picts of woman are all either aroused or in a sexual tension situation.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Draco18s on April 10, 2012, 10:02:14 am
But overall, I'm putting it here, because it's getting funding and I think it's strikingly clear this person doesnt really know what he wants from his game, and cant really draw. I also dont think he understands the conventions he using for his characters. Srsly, all the picts of woman are all either aroused or in a sexual tension situation.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Aww, whoever made that image didn't do it right. It should be "Ze Goggles. Zey do nothing."
Post by: nenjin on April 10, 2012, 10:03:54 am
Post by: Lord Dullard on April 10, 2012, 11:41:30 am
His funding goal is totally reasonable
I think you forgot the 'un-', there.
Also, the video on that project made me want to punch a kitten. Preferably a basement-dwelling, Doritos-eating, Mountain Dew-drinking kitten.
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on April 10, 2012, 11:47:28 am
Also, the video on that project made me want to punch a kitten. Preferably a basement-dwelling, Doritos-eating, Mountain Dew-drinking kitten.
I was surprised when I noticed he was black, I thought white otakus had a monopoly on bad dating sims.
Post by: Solifuge on April 10, 2012, 01:52:35 pm
So as a rule of thumb, be 20% better than this project (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/hyurgi-crowd-sourcing.php) before submitting to kickstarter.
KETTLEBELLS! (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/kettlebells-russian-workout.php?page=1) Number ONE Rasputin's solution for tsar problem bicept...
Spoiler: ...I PRESENT YOU! (click to show/hide)
Post by: ToonyMan on April 10, 2012, 02:55:22 pm
Post by: Yannanth on April 10, 2012, 05:03:17 pm
Post by: JoshuaFH on April 10, 2012, 05:13:55 pm
/Sarcastic or not?
Could definitely spruce up the video though, his boring and unexcited voice would make anything seem unappealing.
Post by: Draco18s on April 10, 2012, 05:14:58 pm
However he tries to spin it... it's still a goddamn table. (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1831661922/kotatsu-hon-nippon-no-mono)
The stupidest one yet. (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/430062470/silkscreen-poster-good-things-come-to-those-who) So... this guy will sell you his posters if you "donate"? This is really all there is to it. It makes no sense. He's not "starting" anything". You literally pay money and get some prints he's already made (also known as "buying") in 18 by 24 arbitrary units.
*Headscratches*
And none of the rewards get you the table.
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 10, 2012, 06:46:51 pm
However he tries to spin it... it's still a goddamn table. (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1831661922/kotatsu-hon-nippon-no-mono)When I get it I will cover it with a blanket like he has in the picture, turn on the heater, then sue him for burning my home down. Yay America!
Post by: JoshuaFH on April 10, 2012, 06:50:45 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 10, 2012, 06:52:13 pm
I think he offhandedly mentions about it being especially designed to prevent fires. Don't want to rewatch the boring video to doublecheck.I'd like to see the machine that can emit heat while NOT catching on fire after a few years in a dusty room with cats.
Post by: Skyrunner on April 10, 2012, 07:17:18 pm
Also, why no table rewards? -_-...;;
Post by: Patchouli on April 10, 2012, 08:25:29 pm
Kotatsu already exist, the dude's just trying to market it in America.I think he offhandedly mentions about it being especially designed to prevent fires. Don't want to rewatch the boring video to doublecheck.I'd like to see the machine that can emit heat while NOT catching on fire after a few years in a dusty room with cats.
Post by: Skyrunner on April 10, 2012, 08:27:53 pm
Kotatsu already exist, the dude's just trying to market it in America.I think he offhandedly mentions about it being especially designed to prevent fires. Don't want to rewatch the boring video to doublecheck.I'd like to see the machine that can emit heat while NOT catching on fire after a few years in a dusty room with cats.
And not even giving out any as rewards . D:
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 10, 2012, 08:30:46 pm
Yes I know.. I read the page.Kotatsu already exist, the dude's just trying to market it in America.I think he offhandedly mentions about it being especially designed to prevent fires. Don't want to rewatch the boring video to doublecheck.I'd like to see the machine that can emit heat while NOT catching on fire after a few years in a dusty room with cats.
Post by: Patchouli on April 10, 2012, 09:04:00 pm
Sorry, I think I misunderstood your post.Yes I know.. I read the page.Kotatsu already exist, the dude's just trying to market it in America.I think he offhandedly mentions about it being especially designed to prevent fires. Don't want to rewatch the boring video to doublecheck.I'd like to see the machine that can emit heat while NOT catching on fire after a few years in a dusty room with cats.
Post by: alway on April 11, 2012, 02:02:07 am
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mmitchum/zeal-disputatum?ref=category
Not sure if trolling or just a terrible idea. I mean, at least Your World was trying.
Post by: Servant Corps on April 11, 2012, 09:47:23 am
Post by: chaoticag on April 11, 2012, 05:47:38 pm
Post by: Aklyon on April 11, 2012, 05:49:09 pm
Wait wait wait. You need to PAY to PLAY a forum game? And then you pay to argue with someone. It's starting to sound like a Monty Python Sketch.Have you come for the 5 minute argument or the full 30?
Post by: Wayward Device on April 11, 2012, 06:08:09 pm
Wait wait wait. You need to PAY to PLAY a forum game? And then you pay to argue with someone. It's starting to sound like a Monty Python Sketch.
Not even a forum game, just a....really specific forum? A forum where you are encouraged to get as many "diverse likes" for your post as possible? I mean, I've thought of a dozen ways to troll the fuck out of the system they describe just while writing this post and I have no interest in such
Wait wait wait. You need to PAY to PLAY a forum game? And then you pay to argue with someone. It's starting to sound like a Monty Python Sketch.Have you come for the 5 minute argument or the full 30?
I'm sorry sir, but we're all out of intellectual malaise and bilingual sarcasm. I could do you a nice deal on some obvious fallacies with a side of incomprehensible ramblings backed by quotes from the Karma Sutra though....
Post by: Lord Dullard on April 13, 2012, 11:31:44 pm
Wot, really?
Post by: MrWiggles on April 14, 2012, 12:05:01 am
Post by: Tilla on April 14, 2012, 12:10:33 am
So it's a Older audience Toon Worlds + (Second Life - Only User Generatored Content) MMOish thingy?Sounds more like it's a more adventure-centric Minecraft with better graphics to me. Not sure where you get MMO from it's multiplayer but not MMO.
Post by: lordcooper on April 14, 2012, 12:33:16 am
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/winterkewlgames/yogventures?ref=category
Wot, really?
That kinda looks like Kickstarter going right to me. Can we have a thread name change?
Post by: nenjin on April 14, 2012, 12:48:54 am
Post by: Lord Dullard on April 14, 2012, 01:53:07 am
Post by: malloc on April 14, 2012, 06:40:09 am
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/winterkewlgames/yogventures?ref=category
Wot, really?
That kinda looks like Kickstarter going right to me. Can we have a thread name change?
So it' is a less blocky version of Minecraft, made by Yogscast? For whatever reason, I can't really see it as a success.
But it is pretty impressive that they managed to raise 200.000.
Post by: Skyrunner on April 14, 2012, 12:28:05 pm
It seems to basically be a Minecraft genre game with slightly different graphics and community input. And we know community input can never go wrong, right? >.>
Post by: Chagen46 on April 14, 2012, 05:34:42 pm
I'm not sure that's going to succeed ... :\
It seems to basically be a Minecraft genre game with slightly different graphics and community input. And we know community input can never go wrong, right? >.>
http://www.wmdportal.com/projects/cars/
Project C.A.R.S is a racing sim being developed by Slightly Mad Studios right now and is entirely based on community input. Literally. Since the day the game was created, the community themselves has been able to play it--sort of. Basically, you pledge money through a kick-starter-like system, and then you get access to builds of the game as it currently is each month/week, and then can give your feedback to the developers.
It's also shaping up to be one of the best racing sims of all time.
So community input CAN work.
Post by: Tilla on April 14, 2012, 06:58:07 pm
And you know, Minecraft is only really enjoyable because of things the community have done IE mods. To the point where the next patch is to make modding easier.I'm not sure that's going to succeed ... :\
It seems to basically be a Minecraft genre game with slightly different graphics and community input. And we know community input can never go wrong, right? >.>
http://www.wmdportal.com/projects/cars/
Project C.A.R.S is a racing sim being developed by Slightly Mad Studios right now and is entirely based on community input. Literally. Since the day the game was created, the community themselves has been able to play it--sort of. Basically, you pledge money through a kick-starter-like system, and then you get access to builds of the game as it currently is each month/week, and then can give your feedback to the developers.
It's also shaping up to be one of the best racing sims of all time.
So community input CAN work.
Post by: MrWiggles on April 14, 2012, 08:34:39 pm
Minecraft is essentially about two things. Exploration and Creation. And by accident it manage to add conflict to Exploration with the addition of Mobs, though I dont really think that was it's purpose. I think Notch went, "Gotta have things to kill, it's a game."
But at the same time, the game has been filled with huge artificial difficulty, by making it nearly random to find particular materiel you want. And the "fix" was to make them more abundant. The Modding Community addressed this by creating Creative Mode, where it completely bypasses the incredibly unrewarding time sink of finding materiels.
If Notch had an understanding of why folks played his game, then he could have invested in some time in making Sane Geology for Minecraft, eg, making it so that you can purposefully find materiel that you want from environmental clues.
And even recent Design Direction still points how they don't understand their own game, which is now verging on sad. The Ender Dragon. Really? That should only exist, if it's guarding Advanced/Rare/Unique/Extremely Valuable Materiel (Making it into a conflict with creation and exploration), instead it's really just to kill the monster. In other words tied to the game main two themes.
The Ender Dragon would make more sense, if the game was about killing mobs, which isn't.
TL:DR Notch is the Stephanie Myers of the video game design world.
Post by: JoshuaFH on April 14, 2012, 08:39:50 pm
Notch is the Stephanie Myers of the video game design world.
Statement of the year here folks. You heard it first from Wiggles.
Post by: Skyrunner on April 15, 2012, 08:21:08 am
Post by: Leafsnail on April 15, 2012, 09:52:58 am
Post by: malloc on April 15, 2012, 10:28:24 am
But at the same time, the game has been filled with huge artificial difficulty, by making it nearly random to find particular materiel you want. And the "fix" was to make them more abundant. The Modding Community addressed this by creating Creative Mode, where it completely bypasses the incredibly unrewarding time sink of finding materiels.By saying that you just proved that the community knows jackshit about what makes Minecraft so addicting.
People play Minecraft for a variety of reasons. It is not just about being creative, because we have a LOT of games where you can be creative without having to grind for the materials. (GMOD, Little Big Planet 1-2, the 5 zillion Minecraft ripoffs, etc etc.)
Why do you think people find it that much more satisfying to build something in Minecraft rather than any of these games? It IS because of the fact that you need to hunt for the materials. Any Minecraft creation is that much more impressive if the person who made it actually acquired the Materials.
[..] making Sane Geology for Minecraft, eg, making it so that you can purposefully find materiel that you want from environmental clues.I'll give you that. Finding anything interesting in Minecrafts underground is very much like playing the slot machine. But honestly, would adding environmental clues really be the best idea? Would anyone other than a geologist even notice these clues? I consider myself relatively wellread. But I honestly would not notice these clues unless I looked it up on the wiki. Also it would be very much a hassle to balance and implement.
TL:DR Notch is the Stephanie Myers of the video game design world.Tasteful..
I wish I could write as beautifully as you, but my mind was always better with numbers.
But I totally agree on one point, the ender dragon was probably not the best idea.
While it did add an interesting goal for when me and my friends were playing. We have had a few playthroughs where we started out in the game, and then tried to make it to the end without dying. For the less vocal majority of people, it did just that, add some arbitrary point to the game.
But in the end it did not really fit into Minecraft all that well, he could have used the development time to some more blocks to play with. Also the villages could have been implemented better.
Post by: Draco18s on April 15, 2012, 12:04:02 pm
Mr.Wiggles, pretty sure Notch created creative mode o_o
Too Many Items came first, which is effectively Creative Mode.
Post by: Skyrunner on April 15, 2012, 03:25:47 pm
Note that there was an entire mode (the original one) called Creative. o_o...
Post by: Skyrunner on April 15, 2012, 03:47:44 pm
Post by: Putnam on April 15, 2012, 03:53:37 pm
Mr.Wiggles, pretty sure Notch created creative mode o_o
Too Many Items came first, which is effectively Creative Mode.
And creative mode came before survival >_>
Post by: Skyrunner on April 15, 2012, 03:54:58 pm
Post by: Aklyon on April 15, 2012, 04:29:27 pm
And then you have Classic Minecraft, which was creative mode before creative mode. This is the much older free version.
Post by: Karlito on April 16, 2012, 12:11:17 am
Post by: Lord Dullard on April 16, 2012, 01:34:31 am
Awesome fan endorsement of Your World (http://"http://www.yourworldinc.com/Guestbook.php").
Quote from: Clueless Soccer Mom
You can be part dragon, bear, human, and elf... all in one!
Someone desperately needs to draw this.
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on April 16, 2012, 01:55:30 am
Awesome fan endorsement of Your World (http://"http://www.yourworldinc.com/Guestbook.php").I think your link is broken.
or my browser doesn't like it :/
Here you go. (http://www.yourworldinc.com/Guestbook.php)
Post by: Mech#4 on April 16, 2012, 02:08:05 am
Also: "Could" is a really weird word. In a moment of doubt I had to look up it's spelling.
Post by: jester on April 16, 2012, 02:33:34 am
Awesome fan endorsement of Your World (http://"http://www.yourworldinc.com/Guestbook.php").I think your link is broken.
or my browser doesn't like it :/
Here you go. (http://www.yourworldinc.com/Guestbook.php)
Again, the link doent seem to work
Post by: Lord Dullard on April 16, 2012, 02:34:43 am
Post by: jester on April 16, 2012, 02:36:20 am
Post by: lordcooper on April 16, 2012, 02:50:05 am
Quote from: unodamnwellwho
To change your racial parts you will need to go to a genetic scientist in town and request a new genetic code. Which will cost and it won't be available until the world has reached that level of technology.
You want fries with that genetic code?
Post by: chaoticag on April 16, 2012, 06:11:55 am
Post by: Karlito on April 16, 2012, 09:34:40 am
Awesome fan endorsement of Your World (http://"http://www.yourworldinc.com/Guestbook.php").I think your link is broken.
or my browser doesn't like it :/
Sorry about that, I guess I forgot how to BB code.
Post by: nenjin on April 16, 2012, 09:36:32 am
Post by: JanusTwoface on April 16, 2012, 09:51:29 am
Web of Trust Scorecard for YourWorldInc.com (http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/yourworldinc.com)
Post by: chaoticag on April 16, 2012, 10:16:18 am
Post by: JanusTwoface on April 16, 2012, 10:24:57 am
Quote from: Wikipedia
The rating tool has received favorable reviews in the press, sometimes with mildly critical remarks. Some people vent more harsh criticism, saying the system is too susceptible to faulty results caused by targeted, malicious efforts of biased users. The company claims the system is extremely difficult to abuse and says that attempts usually get noticed.
So the YourWorld website may not have any issues at all (at least it's not on fire any more...), but the WoT users are certainly having a field day with it.
Post by: Karlito on April 16, 2012, 12:14:53 pm
It's like Elwood found the most attractive woman he knows and was like "Hey, make a video for me about vidya games?"
I was wondering if it was his wife. But you know, honestly I would have thought that producing a video with decent lighting and sound quality would have been totally beyond this guy's means.
Post by: nenjin on April 16, 2012, 12:47:59 pm
Post by: Lord Dullard on April 16, 2012, 07:35:04 pm
Any journalism student can put a camera on a tripod and point it at a neutral wall color.
But how many journalism students would want to combine a dragon, bear, human, and elf?
Face it, the man's a genius.
Post by: nenjin on April 16, 2012, 07:45:23 pm
Post by: Karlito on April 16, 2012, 09:15:48 pm
Also, here is another worthy project (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/315590189/spongeball-z-the-animated-series-season-1) for your consideration.
Post by: Flying Dice on April 16, 2012, 09:54:05 pm
Also, here is another worthy project (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/315590189/spongeball-z-the-animated-series-season-1) for your consideration.
Failing to contain my laughter. At, not with.
Post by: Putnam on April 16, 2012, 10:03:50 pm
Also, here is another worthy project (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/315590189/spongeball-z-the-animated-series-season-1) for your consideration.
Failing to contain my laughter. At, not with.
I barely made it past the URL, much less the image supplied.
Post by: JoshuaFH on April 16, 2012, 10:12:04 pm
Also, here is another worthy project (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/315590189/spongeball-z-the-animated-series-season-1) for your consideration.
Failing to contain my laughter. At, not with.
I barely made it past the URL, much less the image supplied.
This is the best joke gone horribly right.
Post by: Lord Dullard on April 16, 2012, 10:15:28 pm
Then I noticed that the guy's Kickstarter blurb says he's a senior in college, and just... ow.
ETA:
I have a friend I've kind of lost contact with that I bet would think this is hilarious. He's a good guy, but he went to college for graphic design and it was one of those cases where he really, REALLY needed somebody to tell him that he's not cut out for it. Aside from being immature and unoriginal, his art was just... it never really progressed beyond the kind of stuff you'd imagine a semi-talented middle or high-schooler making. Which is sad, because he was really nice - he just never got the dose of reality he needed. But, he works for Apple now, and apparently loves it (heh), so I suppose it ended up okay.
Post by: zombie urist on April 16, 2012, 11:08:54 pm
http://youtu.be/LvotcxDm-0c
Post by: nenjin on April 16, 2012, 11:43:02 pm
Post by: PTTG?? on April 17, 2012, 12:00:00 am
Post by: Megaman on April 17, 2012, 03:06:43 am
Post by: jester on April 17, 2012, 05:49:35 am
Post by: chaoticag on April 17, 2012, 12:12:39 pm
Post by: nenjin on April 17, 2012, 01:45:08 pm
Quote
I keep hearing that Kickstarter only green lights projects that they think are worth the artistic endeavor, then I see this.
And the half a dozen other projects we've seen in this thread.
I doubt KS seriously has any oversight. Things get put up and they respond to reports. But there seems to be zero, absolutely zero quality control in the application process. And honestly that's the way it should be, I think. Otherwise Kickstarter finds itself in the position of publisher, where they get to, or must, decide on each project's profitability, artistic merit and legal standing. That's what publishers already do, and it would fly in the face of what KS is ultimately about.
Post by: Draco18s on April 17, 2012, 01:50:05 pm
QuoteI keep hearing that Kickstarter only green lights projects that they think are worth the artistic endeavor, then I see this.
And the half a dozen other projects we've seen in this thread.
I doubt KS seriously has any oversight. Things get put up and they respond to reports. But there seems to be zero, absolutely zero quality control in the application process.
They make sure it's not a violation of their rules, eg. being a fundraiser, offering non-project rewards, etc. But even so, sometimes those slip through the cracks.
Post by: Scelly9 on April 18, 2012, 12:36:39 pm
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on April 19, 2012, 11:23:01 am
Post by: Scelly9 on April 19, 2012, 11:28:37 am
Post by: Sensei on April 19, 2012, 03:11:22 pm
Post by: Draco18s on April 19, 2012, 03:32:49 pm
Update: Your World "creator" Elwood Bartlett's project has gone no further in funding and is 13 days from kickstarter closure. Bartlett remains smugly confident (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/120873716/your-world/comments) to this very hour, "lol"-ing at criticism and agreeing with everyone who supports him, which is only trolls at this point.
Quote
yourgameistoobig Nice. I just put my info in there. Says $5,040,000.00 to build. Lets see our budget is about that. It says: it would take an entry-level game developer 100.8 years to create this game. We won't factor in that we will be using experienced game developers. So lets see divide 100.8 years by 75 programmers/artists/etc (also detailed in our budget) and you get 1.34 years so that is 15 months. We are giving ourselves 18 months until launch. Ok that works. Thanks for the link!
HAhahahahaha~!
Post by: MaximumZero on April 19, 2012, 03:43:28 pm
Post by: Fenrir on April 19, 2012, 03:49:06 pm
Post by: lordcooper on April 19, 2012, 04:14:22 pm
For the first time in my life I am getting seriously tempted to scam someone.
Post by: Aklyon on April 19, 2012, 04:27:57 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on April 19, 2012, 04:31:10 pm
Maybe if they were like $10 a share, maaaaaaaaaaaaybe.
Or, like its true value, $0.125 a share or so xD
Incidentally, anyone know why he has such a ... uh, distinctive look?
Post by: Scelly9 on April 19, 2012, 04:35:40 pm
Obviously.
Post by: lordcooper on April 19, 2012, 04:49:14 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Scelly9 on April 19, 2012, 04:59:17 pm
Post by: Sensei on April 19, 2012, 05:11:27 pm
Oh god the changes to the post.
Oh god his face. I thought the portrait picture already on the site was the worst photo he could have ever chosen. I was wrong.
Oh god the videos. I had one oh-god reaction at looking at the opening freezeframe and another at the actual content. Also, the MS Movie Make star-shaped transition.
Post by: Leafsnail on April 19, 2012, 05:22:41 pm
Quote
Leveling: Level caps will not exist. As you grow in levels, so will your game content. Your world will not be limited.Is this new or did I just miss it last time? Oh well, it sounds fun to fight against a level 1,000,000 character! And to have infinite content.
Post by: ToonyMan on April 19, 2012, 05:27:23 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on April 19, 2012, 05:27:46 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on April 19, 2012, 05:29:20 pm
I think. I don't know what's the error for trying to sqrt a negative number.
Post by: zombie urist on April 19, 2012, 05:31:42 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on April 19, 2012, 05:34:07 pm
Post by: kaenneth on April 19, 2012, 05:39:05 pm
I tried playing the originals, but I hate the sierra-style games.
Post by: alway on April 19, 2012, 05:41:56 pm
Does he not understand that no level cap means eventually everything in the game will be completely trivial? Or maybe things will get strong with you, in which case raising your level is barely meaningful except in godstomping other players who won't want to fight you?No, everything levels with you; then it goes to space!
*puts on npc voice* Collect 50 space-bear asses from the level 10000 space-bears near my space-house! They are eating my space-pumpkins, and we can't have that, now can we, level 10005 space-hero?
It's like he takes terrible ideas and tries to somehow make them worse.
Post by: Skyrunner on April 19, 2012, 05:43:26 pm
Does he not understand that no level cap means eventually everything in the game will be completely trivial? Or maybe things will get strong with you, in which case raising your level is barely meaningful except in godstomping other players who won't want to fight you?
Or maybe levels do NOTHING except prestige.
^^^This. That's what I think it does.Does he not understand that no level cap means eventually everything in the game will be completely trivial? Or maybe things will get strong with you, in which case raising your level is barely meaningful except in godstomping other players who won't want to fight you?No, everything levels with you; then it goes to space!
I know this game called Dungeon and Fighters Online, and it has the best PVP I've ever seen. Completely balanced, 2d, arcade-style, and perhaps the best marriage of arcade and MMORPG I've seen.
Limited to Korea, though. The US version lags like hell.
Post by: Neonivek on April 19, 2012, 05:44:27 pm
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/leisuresuitlarry/make-leisure-suit-larry-come-again?ref=live (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/leisuresuitlarry/make-leisure-suit-larry-come-again?ref=live)
I tried playing the originals, but I hate the sierra-style games.
Ehhh I love Sierra style
But do you hate Sierra style or do you hate the dumb stuff Sierra often did? There is a difference
It reminds me when someone said that Point and Click adventure games were horrible because they are based off of non-sense moon logic puzzles. Then proceeded to point to that article on Gabriel Knight 3 (which sucked by the way... and I knew that before I played the game).
I like Death filled point and click adventures... Which is to me what is at the heart of Sierra style. Unwinnable situations is a genuin flaw that I consider not to be part of Sierra style.
As for this
I'd rather Revive Kings Quest or even Laura Bow...
Post by: Draco18s on April 19, 2012, 05:50:55 pm
(Twice that, if you make it a 64 bit unsigned integer).
Post by: Skyrunner on April 19, 2012, 05:54:11 pm
Post by: Yannanth on April 19, 2012, 05:56:34 pm
Post by: Sensei on April 19, 2012, 06:28:30 pm
Post by: Neonivek on April 19, 2012, 06:30:09 pm
Yeah, there's a lot of evidence that Bartlett doesn't understand the technical side of... well, all things gaming. Probably the most concrete evidence of this is his assertion that all content and world information from the beta will be kept when the game goes live.
Its odd but a part of me is sort of rooting for this to work. I mean it is insane and won't work in a thousand years...
But wouldn't it be awsome?
Post by: Skyrunner on April 19, 2012, 06:34:09 pm
On second thought, it isn't.
Post by: nenjin on April 19, 2012, 06:44:21 pm
But that'll never happen, unless GWS collectively develops dementia and decides to try Kickstarter themselves.
Post by: Leafsnail on April 19, 2012, 07:01:34 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on April 19, 2012, 07:03:53 pm
It works - if you're good enough, a 15th level character can utterly destroy a 33rd level one. The difference is significant, considering the max level is 70, will always be 70, and usually more than 5 level's difference causes instant pwnage.
Post by: kaijyuu on April 19, 2012, 07:10:26 pm
Post by: Sowelu on April 19, 2012, 07:13:57 pm
I'm a fan of level caps for those sort of games. No matter how dedicated, there comes a point in every grinder's life where the mountain in front of them is just plain too much to climb. That's the point where they quit.
Clearly, you've never played Aardwolf MUD.
Clarification: You go up to level 200. (Individual levels aren't too long; maybe an hour once you're pretty high up there and not playing all hardcore.)
Once you reach level 200, you can remort, and become two classes at once: A level 200 fighter can become a level 1 fighter/mage.
You can continue this process for all 7(?) classes. Each remort increases your XP requirement per level by 1x: So a 3x remort needs 3x experience.
Once you have remorted into all classes, you can tier: Characters start at tier 0, and when they advance to tier 1, they are once again a level 1 single-class...but they get to assign some permanent stat-point-buy discounts, and get access to all their skills ten levels earlier and can wear equipment ten levels earlier, and probably get some bonus to-hit/damage as well. I don't remember what this does to your XP requirement.
Once you hit tier 9 and fully remort, you can still play around with shenanigans like dumping your levels into stat boosts or more HP or whatever instead.
This whole time, you can do quests every half hour, which earn you quest points that you can dump into special quest equipment. (Quests are 'This is the name of a monster, this is the area it's in; kill it within a half hour'.) You can also do a campaign every level, which usually slows down your OMG MUST LEVEL FASTER experience but breaks things up a bit. (Campaigns are a series of multiple, harder quests that you have a few hours to complete, for a large bonus. And can do in parallel with normal quests.)
For reference, if you play all the way through, and you play all hardcore and only take a half hour per level, you are gaining 14000 levels over a course of 292 days of solid play (assuming you never sleep or take a break to socialize).
There is not a shortage of tiered players. Most people who have played for even a little bit are T1 or T2 or something. Back when I still played, there were quite a few T9s.
...I want to play again. GODDAMMIT. (I only got up to my first remort. Cleric/ranger centaur I think? Yeah I got like a level per two hours. I idled a lot.)
Post by: kaijyuu on April 19, 2012, 07:49:06 pm
Yeah those work well. Kingdom of Loathing's another one like that, where you get spells and equipment every time you start over.
The problematic systems are the ones where the amount of playtime before seeing any reward gets so ludicrous that no one in their right mind would try it. Then it gets bad enough that people not in their right mind don't try for it either. Maple Story's like this I believe (though I hear they keep nerfing the curve).
Post by: Leafsnail on April 19, 2012, 07:53:54 pm
I dunno, I'd be tempted to just eradicate levels for an MMO and focus instead on customization of your character as you earn experience. For me level systems only work if there's no chance to grind (think roguelikes where there are a limited number of monsters or you can't stay on each level for too long), really, as otherwise you have to do boring stuff constantly in order to be remotely competitive.
Post by: kaijyuu on April 19, 2012, 08:24:16 pm
/shrug
Post by: Sowelu on April 19, 2012, 08:25:46 pm
Post by: lordcooper on April 19, 2012, 11:28:57 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/tCp90.gif)
I left him a vaguely positive message in the hopes that repetition might get through to him.
Post by: Karlito on April 20, 2012, 12:26:44 am
I left him a vaguely positive message in the hopes that repetition might get through to him.
From his response, I don't think it did.
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on April 20, 2012, 01:35:44 am
Quote
We won't need server and Networking people.B-but most of his gave revolves AROUND switching to different servers, SEEMLESSLY!
Post by: Megaman on April 20, 2012, 01:45:04 am
Post by: scriver on April 20, 2012, 03:06:47 am
Post by: MrWiggles on April 20, 2012, 04:17:07 am
----
So Your World has turned into quite the train wreck. Its becoming quite the black mark on kickstarter.
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 20, 2012, 07:13:44 am
Quote from: Elwood
We will have content in about 3 months. After this is done I'm not doing another Kickstarter unless they change some things. I've contacted them and told them what I have issue with.
Oh no! What will Kickstarter do without his project? It's clearly doomed.
Quote from: Elwood
4 will happen once game is funded.
For the record, he is referring to a comment which listed several points, number four being that he needs to "Develop a strong community, taking regular feedback surveys and releasing frequent alpha/beta versions of the game."
Apparently this will magically happen once the game is funded, and not until then.
This is comedy and tragedy in one!
Post by: chaoticag on April 20, 2012, 08:24:36 am
Post by: MrWiggles on April 20, 2012, 08:28:05 am
Post by: Lord Dullard on April 20, 2012, 10:31:19 am
I read an interview about Elwood, in how hw says his wiccan spells helped me win the lottery... why isnt he using his witch powers on the this endeavor? >.>
As you should know, magic causes technology to backfire.
Post by: nenjin on April 20, 2012, 10:44:40 am
Post by: PTTG?? on April 20, 2012, 10:48:33 am
Post by: Zangi on April 20, 2012, 11:49:47 am
But, a strong presence of tech will weaken magic.I read an interview about Elwood, in how hw says his wiccan spells helped me win the lottery... why isnt he using his witch powers on the this endeavor? >.>
As you should know, magic causes technology to backfire.
Post by: Darvi on April 20, 2012, 11:51:37 am
Post by: Dr. D on April 20, 2012, 12:59:40 pm
Post by: nenjin on April 20, 2012, 01:03:17 pm
I sort of want to see this project go through, just to see whata buggy clusterfuck results.lawsuit.
FTFY.
Post by: Aklyon on April 20, 2012, 01:16:13 pm
Fixed your fixing.I sort of want to see this project go through, just to see whata buggy clusterfucklawsuit results.
FTFY.
Post by: Sowelu on April 20, 2012, 02:04:37 pm
Post by: Fenrir on April 20, 2012, 05:16:56 pm
Of course, someone more impoverished than myself might levy the same criticism against me.
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 20, 2012, 06:15:11 pm
One wonders what an adult could have accomplished with those millions.Personally, if my dream was to make 'Teh Awesome MMORPG' I'd have started small and founded a studio, put out a few games to get an income base while working on it in the background. You know, apply a sound business strategy...
Post by: Skyrunner on April 20, 2012, 06:38:08 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on April 20, 2012, 06:42:02 pm
Also, personally I despise grinding games.
Post by: Skyrunner on April 20, 2012, 07:07:35 pm
Also, personally I despise grinding games.I despise ADDICTIVE grinding games.
'this grinding is shit. but... I'm nearly at the next level...'
THAT.
The game I like the most was Mabinogi before G13, and second is Dungeon and Fighters Online because its addicting PvP that was actually well balanced and depended on your control, mostly.
Post by: JoshuaFH on April 20, 2012, 07:10:37 pm
Also, personally I despise grinding games.I despise ADDICTIVE grinding games.
'this grinding is shit. but... I'm nearly at the next level...'
THAT.
The game I like the most was Mabinogi before G13, and second is Dungeon and Fighters Online because its addicting PvP that was actually well balanced and depended on your control, mostly.
Disgaea 1 consumed my life for far longer than it should have. Getting the full compliment of level 100 Legendary Highest Tier weapons was only an exercise in patience, especially when there was not a single challenge in the game that necessitated it.
Post by: NobodyPro on April 20, 2012, 07:18:03 pm
especially when there was not a single challenge in the game that necessitated it.Quitting?
On an unrelated note: What was that MMO that had it's servers crashed by the dev. team because the players were about to 'finish' the game?
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on April 20, 2012, 08:10:26 pm
To think, less than 150 years ago you would have had to pay a shilling to gawk at the mentally ill.You just got sigged WayWard!
Also as someone learning to program I must say that no matter how much money he had this game is not in anyway programmable. There are very few things you can say where words like never and always can apply but in this case I can with no hesitation say that as of today with the tech we have the game would never be possible even if you dumped millions of work hours into it.
Post by: Skyrunner on April 20, 2012, 08:11:54 pm
Really. With the right people, you could probably do much more than you would think.
Whether or not it would be feasible is a whole 'nuther question.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on April 20, 2012, 08:15:40 pm
Also your avatar looks like something I remember seeing at some point, mind telling me where it is from? I just can't remember anything beyond knowing it looks familiar.
Post by: Skyrunner on April 20, 2012, 08:22:18 pm
Post by: Sowelu on April 20, 2012, 08:24:19 pm
On an unrelated note: What was that MMO that had it's servers crashed by the dev. team because the players were about to 'finish' the game?That sounds like FF11. I haven't heard that specific story but it's almost exactly like a thing they would do.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on April 20, 2012, 08:24:42 pm
Post by: JoshuaFH on April 20, 2012, 08:42:29 pm
On an unrelated note: What was that MMO that had it's servers crashed by the dev. team because the players were about to 'finish' the game?That sounds like FF11. I haven't heard that specific story but it's almost exactly like a thing they would do.
I heard that story, how they unplugged it just as they were about to beat an "unbeatable" boss.
I think that happened in Everquest too...
Post by: Megaman on April 20, 2012, 08:49:18 pm
Post by: kaenneth on April 20, 2012, 08:50:57 pm
\that multiplayer dwarf fortress server?especially when there was not a single challenge in the game that necessitated it.Quitting?
On an unrelated note: What was that MMO that had it's servers crashed by the dev. team because the players were about to 'finish' the game?
There was an incident in EverQuest where some players were about the kill 'The Sleeper' so the GM's despawned it.
The Sleeper was not intended to be killed, waking him triggers a script where he kills EVERYONE, as in, not just the players in the zone that he slept in, he then rampages throughout the game killing old raid bosses, and lots of other players and such; as a once-per-server event.
The problem was the PvP servers had never woken him; however a new guild intended to do so; so all the other top guilds on the PvP server actually worked together to wake the sleeper instead of the upstarts;and proceeded to nearly win by 'zerg'ing him (having enough clerics to just keep rezzing, and rezzing, and rezzing... players as they died) so that he could never have everyone in the zone dead at once to continue the script...
Since the GM's did not know if that would break something, the force-despawned The Sleeper in the middle of the fight; and there was MUCH rage.
Later, the GM's gave everyone who participated some reward, and a chance to properly kill the sleeper once they checked that it wouldn't break the server. The loot on the corpse at the end was a generic "Cloth Cap" like what drops from level 1 mobs.
The commemorate the event, one of the anniversary quests rewards a different "Cloth Cap" (with a special click-effect).
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=83326 (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=83326)
Post by: Aklyon on April 20, 2012, 08:52:32 pm
Post by: EveryZig on April 20, 2012, 08:58:46 pm
Oh, yes thats the one, thank you. Got to go check it again, good story from what I remember.Unfortunately it hasn't been updating for a while. The author is running an exalted based forum game (vaguely similar to Homestuck) though.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on April 20, 2012, 09:11:21 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on April 20, 2012, 09:15:18 pm
I like the one just after the sorcerer ritual best. Or the style my avvie is in.
Post by: Aklyon on April 20, 2012, 09:16:46 pm
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on April 20, 2012, 09:21:09 pm
Personally, I don't like the most recent art style :(Okay, your right, I was just trying to make myself like the new art. Some of the characters do look okay but most, especially the character in you avatar look better in that style. *sigh*
I like the one just after the sorcerer ritual best. Or the style my avvie is in.
Post by: Skyrunner on April 20, 2012, 09:28:16 pm
Also, the yellow-haired guy's (forgot name xD) most recent hairstyle is too puffy for my taste.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on April 20, 2012, 09:31:23 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on April 20, 2012, 09:38:01 pm
Post by: Draco18s on April 20, 2012, 10:27:51 pm
The Banner Saga is done with the Kickstartering, ending as around 720%.
As is Velociraptor! Cannibalism! at 1090% Woo!
Post by: Scelly9 on April 20, 2012, 10:29:08 pm
Post by: Draco18s on April 20, 2012, 10:33:57 pm
Nice.
$400 shy of that nice, round, 1100%
Still, great turnout.
Post by: Sensei on April 21, 2012, 01:48:08 am
Post by: Sensei on April 21, 2012, 02:01:50 am
Quote from: Ellwood Bartlett
Hookerbot swag! (http://www.cafepress.com/yourworldinc)100% true. Not kidding. Actually, he didn't embed the link like I did, but I think the message is preserved.
Post by: Wayward Device on April 21, 2012, 06:45:01 am
Hate to double post, especially to contradict myself, but this really does warrant bumping the thread. As of two minutes ago:Quote from: Ellwood BartlettHookerbot swag! (http://www.cafepress.com/yourworldinc)100% true. Not kidding. Actually, he didn't embed the link like I did, but I think the message is preserved.
Hehe, the best thing about that link is the thong. Not because an "I <3 hookerbot" thong is especially erotic or cool (wheres the motherfucking s? We were promised hookerbots dammit! Is there only one, implausibly named "hookerbot"? What the hell! Time to invade second conditional Poland, before our legions of subordinate clauses blizt Passe Compose France in a hail of conjunctions.) No, no my fellow forumites. It is not my latent leaning to the far right of the political grammar spectrum that amuses me. Rather, it is the fact that this is the sole item available that proudly sports the logo "Made in the USA".
I mean, where was the logic? "Ok, people will like this stuff *project marketing thoughts*. Hmm, people like stuff that's made in their own country. Its good for the economy and they can get a little surge of patriotic feeling when they buy it. Good times. But we need as much monies as possible! How can we get monies without sweatshop labour?!? Ok, ok, we'll make only one item on the list "Made in the USA"! That's the good stuff right there! But which to choose? The thermos, representing America's traditional mastery of science and industry? Perhaps a t shirt, to celebrate our influence on casual world fashion? No. Its so simple, why didn't is see it before?The perfect choice is a grammatically incorrect thong!"
Post by: Skyrunner on April 21, 2012, 10:03:33 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 21, 2012, 10:20:05 am
Post by: Karlito on April 21, 2012, 10:29:03 am
Post by: PTTG?? on April 21, 2012, 10:44:56 am
This guy really sucks at designing websites. I mean, why are there poker chips?
Because he used the "gaming" template in his site design studio.
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 21, 2012, 10:55:56 am
MehThis guy really sucks at designing websites. I mean, why are there poker chips?
Because he used the "gaming" template in his site design studio.
Post by: Draco18s on April 21, 2012, 11:59:34 am
Roll over each of the images. It gives you a large version right?
Not the last one couple.
Post by: Leafsnail on April 21, 2012, 12:26:45 pm
Post by: Megaman on April 21, 2012, 12:59:00 pm
Make something that my pastor can't say I'll go to hell for wearing, like the damn trucker cap.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on April 21, 2012, 01:12:30 pm
Post by: Servant Corps on April 21, 2012, 02:11:19 pm
Quote from: Krenzo
Police Warfare (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/policewarfare/police-warfare)
Battlefield 3 meets cops and robbers. This looks really good, and they do a great job of showing what kind of game they want to make unlike Tactical Shooter.
Quote from: Police Warfare
We've assembled a team of experienced developers that will bring the world of Police Warfare to life and we're still growing! Members of the team have worked on games such as Far Cry 3, Gears Of War, Crysis 1/2, Assassin's Creed 2, Medal Of Honor: Airborne, Golden Eye, Killzone 2, and Grand Theft Auto 4. We've worked at companies such as Ubisoft, Epic Games, Electronic Arts and Crytek. We also brought on real law enforcement advisors to provide tactical expertise, resources and knowledge.
We've come together to form a new team and a new company. So why Kickstarter, why not just take the game strait to some fancy publisher and get it made you ask? Well when we say we want to create games for gamers, by gamers we mean it. That means we want to hold ourselves accountable directly to the fans and build them exactly the game they want to play. The kickstarting financing we're asking for is going directly towards two primary areas: First, it's going towards the cost of the team's office space utilities, hardware and software. We're a team thats still growing and we're hiring additional engineers and external talent so the second part of the funds is going towards bringing those people on full time. We're continuing to invest our personal funds and kickstarter provides the boost we need to bring the game into a fully playable phase of development.
Quote from: Der Shovel
Yeah, the amazing thing here is that their project seems to have zero programmers. Who is going to make the actual mod instead of just circle jerking around weapon models?
Quote from: Krenzo
Oh shit, I didn't realize that. There's no way that's ever getting made now.
Quote from: Hungry Bit
Looks like the Police Warfare Kickstarter was just canceled. Guess they realized it's not gonna happen without a programmer.
Goes to showcase that maybe, just maybe people may understand why Kickstarter is not always such a good idea and that there are smart people out there who realize a dumb idea and is ready to back out of it. That being said, they did say that "this is by no means the end of Police Warfare".
Quote
784
BACKERS
$25,025
PLEDGED OF $325,000 GOAL
FUNDING CANCELED
Funding for this project was canceled by the project creator about 3 hours ago.
Post by: nenjin on April 21, 2012, 02:36:51 pm
While teams of experienced industry people seeking crowd sourcing to create games publishers wouldn't back has been a cool thing....I think it's starting to create unrealistic expectations in some people's minds about how easy this all is. To me, Kickstarter is ideally something for non-industry people who have experience programming but still may hold down a day job. They may fumble through some of the business details but they are capable of producing a product, they simply need funding to do more, faster and possibly better.
These Kickstarters where people think they can sell a good idea and just hire the talent they need to achieve it with their Kickstarter money...I think is what gives it a black eye. And I'm not talking about the Elwood Bartletts of the world that have failure written on them before they start, but the ones with reasonable goals that still can't reach them....because they're amateurs trying to do semi-professional things and thinking money is the pathway to success.
Post by: Wayward Device on April 21, 2012, 03:15:09 pm
Undershooting funding goals is probably the first sign a team doesn't know what it's doing. I was hearing about a Kickstarter that took in something like $350,000.....then spent 70% of the money just fulfilling the reward level promises and the cost of incorporation and overhead. They had no money left to support them on developing the actual game.
While teams of experienced industry people seeking crowd sourcing to create games publishers wouldn't back has been a cool thing....I think it's starting to create unrealistic expectations in some people's minds about how easy this all is. To me, Kickstarter is ideally something for non-industry people who have experience programming but still may hold down a day job. They may fumble through some of the business details but they are capable of producing a product, they simply need funding to do more, faster and possibly better.
These Kickstarters where people think they can sell a good idea and just hire the talent they need to achieve it with their Kickstarter money...I think is what gives it a black eye. And I'm not talking about the Elwood Bartletts of the world that have failure written on them before they start, but the ones with reasonable goals that still can't reach them....because they're amateurs trying to do semi-professional things and thinking money is the pathway to success.
Completely agree with this. At the end of the day, what you really need to make a game is programers. Or even only one programer. Everything else, animators and modelers, writers, composers, voice actors and marketing teams, are all there just to make the programer's life easier. They make the game itself, the very code that gives rise to the universe they create. Take Dwarf fortress as an example. Toady is not a Michelangelo of the digital age, spinning wonder out of polygons and pixels. Nor is he a modern Don Draper, gathering vast interest through his marketing-fu. He's a programer and a bloody good one*, and so he brings us a game that many love with the burning passion of a thousand suns** and without which this glorious forum wouldn't even exist. In practical terms, a bunch of models and animators know about as much about making a game as painters do about designing an building an architecturally sound house.
*I accept that he may not produce an UI that's friendly on the eye, or the parts of the brain that deal with logic. But it's only because he doesn't give a fuck about UIs, at least when he could be making unkillable zombie armies and badgers that tear people limbs off.
**This is the best kind of passion.
Post by: nenjin on April 21, 2012, 03:47:35 pm
Programmers are the lifeblood of a game. And the only person who has any business trying to assemble a team of programmers to achieve their dream is someone who has had experience doing it. If you don't know shit about shit, don't be cooking up $500,000 dollar dreams. That's a recipe for mismanagement and disaster.
Post by: Lord Dullard on April 21, 2012, 05:18:14 pm
He has MORE than enough money to put together a proper team of devs/artists/etc. to create a game, assuming that he had the capability to come up with a good concept and flesh it out a bit first (I know he clearly doesn't, so null point anyway, but). The fact that he's now marketing crappy, unoriginal junk when he has more than enough personal wealth to spend more than most of us could dream about on a game idea is just offensive.
Also, re: Police Warfare:
I saw that project myself when the campaign started. My immediate thought was 'who the hell would want to play as a bunch of arsehole cops?'. I honestly suspect that has more to do with their failure than the programmer thing, although the latter couldn't have helped.
Post by: lordcooper on April 21, 2012, 05:41:18 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on April 21, 2012, 06:07:53 pm
I'd love to play as an arsehole cop.If only to repeatedly smuggle vehicles and weapons to the other side.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on April 22, 2012, 01:10:01 am
Post by: Servant Corps on April 22, 2012, 02:40:03 pm
Quote from: Servant Corps
Here's the dirty secret; Kickstarter is based on the "honor system", so there is a real chance that a people can crowdfund something and not receive anything in return.
On the SomethingAwful thread, I was alerted to Eyez™ by ZionEyez HD Video Recording Glasses for Facebook (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zioneyez/eyeztm-by-zioneyez-hd-video-recording-glasses-for), a project that has raised $343,415 in July 2011 but had not yet sent out any products and had since suffered numerous delays in actually producing the product while not adequately communicating or keeping in touch with their backers. Last update was in April 2012, and some of the backers are begining to think that they were being cheated.
Take a look at the comments (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zioneyez/eyeztm-by-zioneyez-hd-video-recording-glasses-for/comments), they seem very important.
Post by: lordcooper on April 22, 2012, 02:53:36 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on April 22, 2012, 02:54:49 pm
Also they seem to still be updating at least (2 weeks ago is reasonably recent), but you'd really hope they'd have put out something else.
Post by: Wayward Device on April 22, 2012, 03:20:56 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on April 22, 2012, 05:41:38 pm
Spoiler: Eyez Post (click to show/hide)
It hasn't been a year yet since they've received their backing. Its a physical product, that they're refining for mass production. That can take a while. There hardware they have to make design, get resources for manufacturing, and the first couple of prototypes wont be production but for iteration of testing and feedback. They also probably have to make software & firmware for the damn things in concert with the hardware.
And the post update they made in April seems to be pretty substantive with their current progress.
Post by: Servant Corps on April 22, 2012, 09:05:35 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on April 23, 2012, 02:55:12 am
True, but I am going to monitor this project to see what will happen next.Oh, sure nothing wrong with keeping an eye on them.
Post by: Wayward Device on April 23, 2012, 02:22:47 pm
True, but I am going to monitor this project to see what will happen next.Oh, sure nothing wrong with keeping an eye on them.
The punz are strong in this one...
Post by: PTTG?? on April 23, 2012, 03:04:40 pm
Eye don't get it.The punz are strong in this one...True, but I am going to monitor this project to see what will happen next.Oh, sure nothing wrong with keeping an eye on them.
Post by: MrWiggles on April 23, 2012, 04:55:51 pm
Post by: Wayward Device on April 23, 2012, 05:33:47 pm
XD I didnt mean to have a pun.
Today has been a ☼good day☼.1
What a wooden response. My cousin Iris agrees.eye believe that the puns aren't going to last long, nor be very punny.Eye don't get it.The punz are strong in this one...True, but I am going to monitor this project to see what will happen next.Oh, sure nothing wrong with keeping an eye on them.
then again, this is B12, home of the tree pun.
1.Did anyone else read that as "Toady"?. I think the part of my brain that deals with words is going to sleep.
Post by: Draco18s on April 23, 2012, 08:17:27 pm
XD I didnt mean to have a pun.
Today has been a ☼good day☼.1What a wooden response. My cousin Iris agrees.eye believe that the puns aren't going to last long, nor be very punny.Eye don't get it.The punz are strong in this one...True, but I am going to monitor this project to see what will happen next.Oh, sure nothing wrong with keeping an eye on them.
then again, this is B12, home of the tree pun.
1.Did anyone else read that as "Toady"?. I think the part of my brain that deals with words is going to sleep.
I read it as "three toe"
Post by: The Mechanical Man on April 23, 2012, 09:20:48 pm
Man, they just keep getting cornea and cornea...
Post by: nenjin on April 23, 2012, 09:24:25 pm
Alright! Stop that! It's just silly.
Post by: Draco18s on April 23, 2012, 09:39:17 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/1k2Xt.jpg)
Alright! Stop that! It's just silly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25Qhbdijv5Y
Post by: Sensei on April 23, 2012, 09:42:24 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on April 23, 2012, 09:51:30 pm
So, this one confounds me. They didnt have any real Rewards. Their presentation wasnt that good. And their Goal, should have been higher. 300 dollars to get Recording Equipment and to Design a Website (hosting I suppose they'll cover out of pocket), seems way to low.
The recorder they ended up buying, was 289 dollars. Minus the Kickstater fee, that left them around 180 dollars for website design. And thats not including the Income Tax for the crowd sourcing.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on April 23, 2012, 10:04:46 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on April 23, 2012, 10:06:31 pm
Also, MrWiggles, $500 probably won't be taxed (much). Considering that a single dependent gets about $300 deducted for unearned income, they'll only pay some $200's worth. IIRC that was less than $20 tax.
(
Post by: Draco18s on April 23, 2012, 10:14:27 pm
So I was trying to find this one thing which basically went through all the reasons I think Mr. Lottery Pizza guy would fail and I found it. Some of you may have heard of Extra Credits (if not you should check it out) and they did all my work for me so without further ado, here is a link (http://extra-credits.net/episodes/so-you-want-to-be-a-game-designer/) to their video on what it takes to be a game designer.
Yeah, I lack a few of those, but I can make up for it by having a wealth of resources to call upon when in need.
Post by: MrWiggles on April 23, 2012, 10:22:33 pm
I wonder how that one succeeded.Yea, it wont be a lot, but it still money being taken away, with such a low amount of money its noticeable.
Also, MrWiggles, $500 probably won't be taxed (much). Considering that a single dependent gets about $300 deducted for unearned income, they'll only pay some $200's worth. IIRC that was less than $20 tax.
(
Post by: Superior_Tomato on April 24, 2012, 01:53:30 pm
Quote
Note: Characters will not be permitted to run around buck naked…. Or can they? Every game needs a good mystery.
I, personally don't see any mystery in that in the least. It's somebody running around naked. Seriously. There's nothing special about it. This guy seems like he's trying to give everybody everything they want and fail at it miserably.
If I'm missing something blatantly obvious, could somebody fill me in?
Also, two people have donated 10,000 or more? Wow. Just wow.
Edit: Threatening a supposed "Troll" (Who is probably completely reasonable and sane) with legal action (or at the very least mentioning that he could do it in a threatening way), this guy seems to be going mad with power.
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on April 24, 2012, 01:56:17 pm
Post by: JanusTwoface on April 24, 2012, 01:59:31 pm
Also, two people have donated 10,000 or more? Wow. Just wow.More realistically, 104 donated $0 as there's not a snowball's chance that it's actually going to get funded.
Actually, on that note, can anyone that's done the Kickstarter thing comment on if your money is taken out when you sign up and held in escrow 9and returned if the project fails) or only when the project succeeds?
Post by: Draco18s on April 24, 2012, 02:01:33 pm
Also, two people have donated 10,000 or more? Wow. Just wow.More realistically, 104 donated $0 as there's not a snowball's chance that it's actually going to get funded.
Actually, on that note, can anyone that's done the Kickstarter thing comment on if your money is taken out when you sign up and held in escrow 9and returned if the project fails) or only when the project succeeds?
You aren't even charged (escrow) until the project succeeds. It uses Amazon Payments, which can be deferred, altered, canceled, and so on. You risk NOTHING by throwing a $10,000 pledge at Your World.
(If it doesn't get fully funded, no skin off your back, you don't even NEED TO HAVE 10k. And you can always cancel your pledge on the last day)
Post by: JanusTwoface on April 24, 2012, 02:10:03 pm
Also, technically it's slightly before 24 hours that you can still cancel, at least according to this:
Backers may increase, decrease, or cancel their pledge at any time during the fundraising campaign, except that they may not cancel or reduce their pledge if the campaign is in its final 24 hours and the cancellation or reduction would drop the campaign below its goal.
But the lack of a need to actually have the money makes me curious if the two $10k backers are 1) actually serious, 2) secretly Bartlett in disguise, 3) just screwing with him. There are entirely too many comments that actually sound positive for me to have particularly much faith in humanity's collective judgement in this matter...
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on April 24, 2012, 02:31:01 pm
Post by: Draco18s on April 24, 2012, 04:55:12 pm
goddammit, I keep getting sudden urges to start kickstarter projects that will never get funded (I'm being honest, too).
it's contageous!
Back when my group started our kickstarter we were joking about the fact that there's no minimum goal amount.
"We should do one for $1 for like 'making a sandwich,' with pledge levels in increments of a dime!"
Post by: PTTG?? on April 24, 2012, 05:36:54 pm
One of these is going to go viral and get thousands of $1 pledges.
Post by: Skyrunner on April 24, 2012, 05:37:34 pm
The sandwich one, sure. That's a project.
Not buying movie tickets >.>
Post by: Draco18s on April 24, 2012, 06:20:29 pm
what kickstarter be this?goddammit, I keep getting sudden urges to start kickstarter projects that will never get funded (I'm being honest, too).
it's contageous!
Back when my group started our kickstarter we were joking about the fact that there's no minimum goal amount.
"We should do one for $1 for like 'making a sandwich,' with pledge levels in increments of a dime!"
This one (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/boardraptorgames/velociraptor-cannibalism). It's completed already.
But if you're interested in it still, we might be able to work something out.
Post by: nenjin on April 24, 2012, 06:32:47 pm
Quote
But if you're interested in it still, we might be able to work something out.
That just goes so well with the whole "putting the shades down." And by well I mean it's slightly creepy. :P
Post by: RedWarrior0 on April 24, 2012, 07:51:37 pm
Post by: Draco18s on April 24, 2012, 08:02:07 pm
I just feel bad for the two guys who have likely trollnated 10k when E. B. funds the rest of the project himself, only for him to be hit by >20k in associated fees.
Can't pledge to your own project. Amazon will freeze your account.
QuoteBut if you're interested in it still, we might be able to work something out.
That just goes so well with the whole "putting the shades down." And by well I mean it's slightly creepy. :P
Perfect.
Post by: JanusTwoface on April 24, 2012, 08:06:24 pm
I just feel bad for the two guys who have likely trollnated 10k when E. B. funds the rest of the project himself, only for him to be hit by >20k in associated fees.Think he'd really get hit without a million dollars worth of fees just to finish his project? It's not like anyone wouldn't notice when it goes from 104 to 105 backers and $21k to $1.1M.
Post by: kaenneth on April 24, 2012, 08:32:50 pm
Post by: nenjin on April 24, 2012, 09:02:54 pm
I just feel bad for the two guys who have likely trollnated 10k when E. B. funds the rest of the project himself, only for him to be hit by >20k in associated fees.Think he'd really get hit without a million dollars worth of fees just to finish his project? It's not like anyone wouldn't notice when it goes from 104 to 105 backers and $21k to $1.1M.
And I think it's probably technically illegal according to the ToS of Kickstarter. I haven't looked though. But one would think that would be in place to guard against fraud. I mean, start a $10k kickstarter project, fund it to completion with your own money....earn whatever profit you didn't have to pay for. Repeat. And repeat. And repeat.
Post by: lordcooper on April 24, 2012, 09:03:56 pm
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on April 24, 2012, 10:42:02 pm
I'm waiting for a flood of http://www.savetoby.com/ (http://www.savetoby.com/) style kickstarters.
i had the same idea ~10 years ago. i just didn't have the cruelty to pull it off
my idea was to allow people to pledge either for or against the cruel act, so all the bastards out there could compete against the decent people trying to save the cute creature. the thing is, i have trouble killing insects...
Post by: Wayward Device on April 25, 2012, 10:11:05 am
the thing is, i have trouble killing insects...
Surely some sort of mechanized piston+spike+timer setup could alleviate this.
Post by: PTTG?? on April 25, 2012, 10:40:13 am
Purely hypothetically, of course.
Post by: Lord Dullard on April 25, 2012, 10:44:07 am
Post by: mainiac on April 25, 2012, 10:50:24 am
Post by: Servant Corps on April 26, 2012, 12:40:01 pm
Post by: nenjin on April 26, 2012, 01:00:08 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 26, 2012, 01:01:37 pm
Post by: Yannanth on April 26, 2012, 01:45:31 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 26, 2012, 02:20:20 pm
I can tell you feel very strongly about this watch.An e-watch kickstarter has raised over 6 million dollars (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-e-paper-watch-for-iphone-and-android). Luckily, they have a track record of producing products and it seems they already have it ready to be produced, so I don't think it's going to flame out. Look like this might be a success.I'm not touching that thing. Anyone who does is clearly just a whore for gadgets, because as a watch it's useless. And I don't want a frickin' touch-screen or massive glass watchface on my wristwatch, nor do I want to look at the thing all the time. And I don't want it lighting up my bedroom when I'm trying to sleep.
It is a horrible scam. This will probably go for over £200 when it's put to market, while a G-Shock Mudman is on the market for... US$85 on the American Amazon website! And you know what? A Mudman's battery lasts for 10 years and the watch can take a ridiculous, unthought of amount of abuse. Even throwing it into Mt Doom might not destroy it. This watch? Just flicking your finger at the screen will probably break it and you need to recharge its crappy battery every 7 days. I've had my G-7800, a fairly low-range model since 2009 (it was a Christmas present, though I had wanted a tough watch for a while). The manual says you need to change the battery every 5 years. With the contrast turned up to 5/10 (personal preference) and various other settings touched up, it's still going strong today without a single sign of battery depletion on the screen. I can't even bear the thought of having to recharge my watch.
I'm sticking with my £125 retro-cool G-Shock G-7800, thank you very much, which is built out of stainless steel (the next G-Shock model in terms of price is titanium-framed), has an 1-cm thick glass watchface from which the steel extends outwards so the watch is literally untouchable. Also, it has just about every use I could ever wish for except an accelerometer--which most G-Shock watches have anyway. Don't buy into this crap people, Casio and others (more recently Timex) have been doing it for years.
Post by: lemon10 on April 26, 2012, 02:24:35 pm
Charging it every 7 days however sounds completely terrible, I know that I would be pissed if my watch ran out of batteries when I needed it, especially since I could probably get a watch that would only need to have the battery be changed a few times in my lifetime.
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 26, 2012, 02:29:35 pm
The kickstarter watch does look pretty cool, and I don't think that having a large face is a problem.yeah that's the main reason I see to not get the watch.
Charging it every 7 days however sounds completely terrible, I know that I would be pissed if my watch ran out of batteries when I needed it, especially since I could probably get a watch that would only need to have the battery be changed a few times in my lifetime.
Post by: Megaman on April 26, 2012, 02:50:50 pm
Post by: MorleyDev on April 26, 2012, 04:11:24 pm
I was always suspicious about gadgets, why do I need a rectangle to do what the body God gave me and many less expensive items can do without electronics?
Why do I need a car, when a horse and cart can pull me along? Why do I need a clock when I can just use the sun and stars to tell the time? The point of the gadgets is supposed to be to make the job easier than the previous tools.
The watch looks like it's too unwieldy and too much of a hassle to make the jobs any easier. It doesn't seem to do anything other "gadgets" can do better. Things like this are mainly done because something thinks "it's awesome". It's like "why do I want a jetpack?" or "why should we still have a space program that actively sends people into space?". Because it's friggin' awesome.
As for Kickstarter, I've only funded one so far, Wasteland 2. It involves enough people with a history of delivering some very good products, and any thing that can demonstrate the validity of "old school" styled RPGs instantly gets 10 free points in my book xD
Post by: Skyrunner on April 26, 2012, 04:12:24 pm
I was always suspicious about gadgets, why do I need a rectangle to do what the body God gave me and many less expensive items can do without electronics?
Try things like 'graphing P(t) = 1 / (1 + e^(-t*0.01 + 3)) + 1'. :P
It cost me $125 to get that graph. From a small rectangular handheld device.
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 26, 2012, 04:40:19 pm
I was always suspicious about gadgets, why do I need a rectangle to do what the body God gave me and many less expensive items can do without electronics?Because 'god' also gave us the ability to craft items which can do those things far faster and easier.
Technically you could run Crysis using an abacus, doing every calculation and running every line of code by hand and manually filling out pixels with markers. It would be stupid, but you could.
Also, your statement is silly.
Post by: Draco18s on April 26, 2012, 04:55:16 pm
Technically you could run Crysis using an abacus, doing every calculation and running every line of code by hand and manually filling out pixels with markers. It would be stupid, but you could.
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/a_bunch_of_rocks.png)
Post by: Skyrunner on April 26, 2012, 04:59:34 pm
It must be boring doing that <.< Imagine all the bugs!
Post by: kaijyuu on April 26, 2012, 05:03:39 pm
Also, he appears to be a fan of non-recursive coding styles. To simulate a universe, the code would conceivably be finished at some point, long before eons have passed, unless he's hardcoding every single iteration. Then again he could just be placing the nigh infinitesimal amount of required starting variables, but that wouldn't be code -- it'd be data (EDIT: Not even that, now that I think about it, since some simple additional code could set all those rather than hardcoding them).
Post by: kaenneth on April 26, 2012, 05:12:58 pm
A guy is rushing through an airport, and asks another man for the time.
The man put down his two suitcases, looks at his watch, and says "10:37, what flight are you on?"
"108 to Chicago"
The man pokes his watch a couple times and says "Oh, don't worry, you flight was delayed because..."
(poke, poke)
"There is a thunderstorm expected in Chicago when it would arrive." the man finished.
"Did you get that information from your watch?" the guy asked.
"Oh yes, I have airport, traffic, weather, and news reports from across the country available on it"
"Wow! where did you get it?"
"I built it myself at home"
"Can I buy it from you?"
"Oh no, I couldn't sell it, it's one of a kind!"
"I'm a very wealthy man, I'll give you one million dollars for it, surely you could afford to make another with that much money"
"Well... OK"
The guy writes out a check for the million dollars, and the man uses the watch to confirm from a news article the guy is rich, and hands him the watch, and shows him how to use it.
"Thanks again for selling it, this watch will be the envy of my friends", the guy says as he resumes walking to his flight.
"Hang on", the man says as he picks up his two heavy suitcases, "Don't you want the batteries?"
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on April 26, 2012, 05:44:06 pm
I still wonder which processor he's using. Machine code is worthless without a CPU to actually do the calculations.
Also, he appears to be a fan of non-recursive coding styles. To simulate a universe, the code would conceivably be finished at some point, long before eons have passed, unless he's hardcoding every single iteration. Then again he could just be placing the nigh infinitesimal amount of required starting variables, but that wouldn't be code -- it'd be data (EDIT: Not even that, now that I think about it, since some simple additional code could set all those rather than hardcoding them).
he's not coding a universe, nor does he need a CPU, he already coded the universe in the begining of time and he is running the code by hand, he is the cpu
Post by: kaijyuu on April 26, 2012, 05:49:54 pm
Post by: Draco18s on April 26, 2012, 05:57:50 pm
If so, he'd be moving around rocks instead of making additional rows. Setting RAM bits and the like.
Depends on your concept of what's storage.
As you notice in the comic it says that a an algorithm that moves from row to row is just as turing complete as a computer is, therefore, it's irrelevant.
Post by: nenjin on April 26, 2012, 05:58:48 pm
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on April 26, 2012, 07:14:53 pm
Post by: EveryZig on April 26, 2012, 10:53:38 pm
We can't derail yet, I have not created up to the time period of trains so the term is currently non-existent.Maybe not trains, but don't forget about the minecarts.
Post by: Sensei on April 30, 2012, 12:11:26 am
There's only been one more comment on the comments thread, just some misspelled derision towards Mr. Bartlett. I'm still waiting for more word though- I'd be shocked if he didn't add some kind of parting shot before the kickstarter closes. Will he:
A) Write a smug, hate-filled rant against everyone who didn't donate for ruining what could have been the greatest game ever. Bonus points for not realizing how many people agreeing with him/pledging are trolls.
B) Proclaim that the project is still going to be funded out of pocket, but you aren't getting in for free!
C) Actually give up on Your World. Bonus points if he learns nothing and starts another project shortly thereafter.
D) Other.
Place your bets!
Post by: zombie urist on April 30, 2012, 12:13:33 am
Post by: Criptfeind on April 30, 2012, 12:14:25 am
Post by: penguinofhonor on April 30, 2012, 12:16:54 am
Post by: MrWiggles on April 30, 2012, 12:22:38 am
What happens when 100 people simultaneously joke-donate $10,000?
Then they have to pull their money, something lik 36 hours before the project closes, then it gets locked into place, and you'll get 10k (or as much as can be pulled out) and they'll probably get a bitchy notice from both Kickstarter and their bank.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on April 30, 2012, 12:35:08 am
Post by: MarcAFK on April 30, 2012, 01:48:28 am
Post by: alway on April 30, 2012, 03:52:04 am
I still wonder which processor he's using. Machine code is worthless without a CPU to actually do the calculations.Judging by the pattern of rocks in the image, it's computing using the cellular automata known as Rule 110 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_110), which as far as I know is the most rudimentary rule set capable of universal computability.
Now back on topic! http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dragongrip/dragon-grip?ref=category
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1081726945/the-colony-a-topeka-larp-event?ref=category <-- they want you to pay for their LARPing
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/miniminipac/mr-poopie-0?ref=category <-- A game which is literally shit.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1997110766/beaver-stomper-a-retro-video-game-project?ref=category Babby's first programming project. This has to be a kickstarter parody...
Post by: Sensei on April 30, 2012, 04:58:59 am
Quote
The Dragon Grip is a hand held toy for making kung fu fighting sound effects (US Patent #7922557 Handheld Toy for Emitting Fighting Noises and Method Therefor)That isn't useful, nonobvious, nor (being submitted this very month) original. And just read the actual patent claim (http://tinyurl.com/7wrfa29). I could prove prior art in my sleep.
But, in the citations, I found a much better patent (http://www.google.com/patents/US5314371?dq=patent:7922557&ei=7WCeT--8O6bXiAKI-918) to make jokes about. I'll refrain, just read it (best described in the PDF you can see by clicking "drawings") and give it a shot.
Post by: MrWiggles on April 30, 2012, 06:04:53 am
For some reason, that not chill with me. For myself, I dont see kickstarter as a place to advert your other projects. The kickstarter is about This Product. Now, I think I'd be fine if they talked about their previous projects that are directly tied with This Project.
Like, maybe if it was another Toy they worked on or something. The comic doesnt really directly relate with that sound board toy.
Also, can anyone read that font for their comic? I cannot read it.
Post by: lordcooper on April 30, 2012, 06:06:41 am
On the Dragon Grip kickstarter, who do you all think about the advert of their comic?
I think Jeff Humphries.
Post by: MrWiggles on April 30, 2012, 06:07:45 am
Post by: Esta on April 30, 2012, 06:53:47 am
To quote one commenter on the subject of Mythic, David: [Note that the quote is from the Order of the Stick Reprint Drive, NOT Mythic, and good luck trying to find the comment in a few days, given that a good bit of conversation regarding Kickstarter occurs there.]
Quote
Crikey.
A games project appears to have gone down as being a blatant scam.
Not sure if any sites have posted it yet, but http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/273246798/mythic-the-story-of-gods-and-men/comments has been taken down after someone in the coments noted all the art/concepts were stolen from different sites, and the studio didn't exist.
Let the attempts to abuse a successful platform begin :/
Post by: MrWiggles on April 30, 2012, 07:02:20 am
I'm not surprised that there are scams, (and yes I'm sure there are others being attempted currently), since kickstarter (and the general honor system that most crowd source sites have), does provide a great avenue for scammers.
It really is a peer driven system. I'm pretty happy that kickstarter is mostly hands off with projects.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on April 30, 2012, 07:06:04 am
Post by: MrWiggles on April 30, 2012, 07:58:03 am
Post by: nenjin on April 30, 2012, 09:05:56 am
Post by: Servant Corps on April 30, 2012, 10:03:03 am
Well, there only so low a scammer will go for a scam. Maybe 5k is consider to low of an RoI.I remembered somebody raised $1000 for the creation of a "Multiplayer KOTOR mod" before disappearing from the internet, and that was considered to be a successful scam. He also strung along his supporters for probably a year or more.
Plus, we still have ZionEyez to watch for. Right now, the commenter are hoping for an October 2012 release, but if that date passes with no response, there's probably going to be hell to pay, or at least refunds demanded.
EDIT: Also, Ron Paul: Road to REVOLution (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1339254269/ron-paul-road-to-revolution?ref=live) is using open-source software and an edited Waluigi sprite (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/ron-paul-kickstarter.php) to make his game, but that doesn't quite qualify as a scam because it showcase he's actually making it. He is probably ripping people off though. And the developer is saying that he's using placeholder graphics (http://gamepolitics.com/2012/04/26/report-ron-paul-game-uses-assets-other-games), so he has an alibi.
Post by: PTTG?? on April 30, 2012, 10:45:55 am
...
"Hang on", the man says as he picks up his two heavy suitcases, "Don't you want the batteries?"
When I first heard that joke, it was five million and it still was a bit low for the capabilities of that watch.
In one or two years, I bet you could buy that for $500. Two more years, they're free with the phone contract.
EDIT: Hmm... I got an idea for a kickstarter project...
Post by: lordcooper on May 01, 2012, 07:54:43 am
Quote
Meeting with a number of the game designers today! I won't have the video ready until after kickstater has finished. So in order to see it you will have to check out the website. After kickstater completes you are going to need to sign up via our website in order to be included in the updates on content. Just go use the contact us section and give a valid email address. We will send out emails as the game progresses, because I doubt we will use kickstater again. Their customer service sucks.
Post by: MrWiggles on May 01, 2012, 07:56:15 am
Post by: MarcAFK on May 01, 2012, 08:11:52 am
What do you think he means by poor customer service?He means they don't provide robot hookers of course!
What other kind of 'customer "service"' is there?
Post by: nenjin on May 01, 2012, 09:41:15 am
And now for something (sort of) different: The first high-profile Kickstarter scam? (http://pc.gamespy.com/articles/122/1224054p1.html)
Post by: Servant Corps on May 01, 2012, 12:50:57 pm
Post by: lordcooper on May 01, 2012, 12:57:22 pm
Anyone fancy joining me? :P
Post by: Leafsnail on May 01, 2012, 12:58:19 pm
Post by: lordcooper on May 01, 2012, 12:58:57 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 01, 2012, 01:01:03 pm
Hm, Kickstarter just gives you back your money if the target isn't met right?They never TAKE your money unless the target is met. Its not an escrow.
Post by: lemon10 on May 01, 2012, 01:05:37 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 01, 2012, 01:16:16 pm
It would be epic counter-trolling if he pledged ~1,070,000 dollars to his own project at the last second, and gave all the trolls that pledged $10,000 huge problems with their banks.Exactly why I'm not doing it.
Post by: JanusTwoface on May 01, 2012, 01:24:30 pm
Post by: lordcooper on May 01, 2012, 01:26:41 pm
Post by: Fenrir on May 01, 2012, 01:29:53 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 01, 2012, 01:39:01 pm
He does seem like that kind of personI see little purpose in pledging the money. He will think that it is genuine support.you're being sarcastic, right?
right?
Post by: Fenrir on May 01, 2012, 02:09:56 pm
No.I see little purpose in pledging the money. He will think that it is genuine support.you're being sarcastic, right?
right?
Elwood Bartlett...
1. ...considers himself a high priest.
2. ...believes that the universe itself has granted him this boon.
3. ...has impractical, childish (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8A0kzNqY5s) fantasies.
4. ...leaves the practical considerations of such fantasies to other people.
5. ...calls himself an “idea man”. This carries the implication that he needs do nothing, and other people will be impressed by his ideas alone.
6. ...creates a Kickstarter project to fund a project when he could fund it himself. Now, if he does not need money from the crowd, what else could he be getting from them but attention? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9DrT9SaUso)
7. ...believes that he can do anything he wants just by willing it so. He treats money like it is a supply of mana.
This man is likely a narcissist. I recommend watching the videos linked above. I am personally familiar with those of Mr. Bartlett’s kind. Your pledge will be seen as support.
Post by: Draco18s on May 01, 2012, 04:25:01 pm
yeah, he's doing that to troll him (probably along with enough people to tip it over the edge) and, as a result, it'll (hopefully) make him realise how futile his efforts were.
Don't tip it over the edge if the clock is under 24 hours. You won't be able to cancel.
Post by: kaenneth on May 01, 2012, 05:16:38 pm
"One teenager can change the faith of all human kind. Jacob is a 22 years old teen from California - USA, that is addicted to physics and computer science. "
"f you've ever used Google Maps, you might have noticed the Street View. I want to do something similar, but in 3D, and with an Japanese anime-inspired aesthetic."
"In this game, each player takes on the role of one of billionaire Jonathan Glamcock's hot house boys...I mean, employees."
"All in all, the users will love their virtual world even more than they love their real world. They will crave their virtual world, they will need it... want it... constantly be in it... "
Post by: penguinofhonor on May 01, 2012, 05:34:33 pm
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 01, 2012, 05:39:49 pm
Post by: Fenrir on May 01, 2012, 05:41:24 pm
Quote
Project DescriptionO HAI GAIS. I IZ WRITAN TEH BOOK. U GIVE MEAH TEH MONAYZ?
Hello friends from KickStarter.
I`m writing a book, a science-fiction one, here is the base storyline:
One teenager can change the faith of all human kind. Jacob is a 22 years old teen from California - USA, that is addicted to physics and computer science. The world is not perfect enough, so his goal is to change history. He is starting to wonder how the world would be if the World Wars 1 and 2 take place, or the Pearl Harbor attack and many other important things that happened in time didn’t took place. But there is one little problem, he knows that if he changes the past, the future can also be altered and can endanger his own existence.
I want to finish the book and send it to print as soon as possible, but for this as you may probably know, money is needed. I hope that you can help me if you like what I am writing.
Project Rewards
One solid copy of the book right after it will come from printing plus other goods
How can he not notice how bad he is?
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 01, 2012, 05:43:41 pm
Post by: MaximumZero on May 01, 2012, 05:44:59 pm
O HAI GAIS. I IZ WRITAN TEH BOOK. U GIVE MEAH TEH MONAYZ?Damn it! He stole my strategy! >.<
Post by: Lord Dullard on May 01, 2012, 05:46:34 pm
ETA:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/396185567/am-i-dead-yet-the-end-of-days-will-not-occur-in-20?ref=search
...what - I don't even...
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on May 01, 2012, 05:47:13 pm
O HAI GAIS. I IZ WRITAN TEH BOOK. U GIVE MEAH TEH MONAYZ?
How can he not notice how bad he is?
"But mom says I write like an angel!".
Post by: Fenrir on May 01, 2012, 05:58:01 pm
Some of those projects are... painfully bad. I actually chickened out over watching the 'comedian' lady's in the #1 spot. I was afraid it would make me cringe so much I'd have an aneurysm or something.It was bad. No aneurysm, but I may have suffered one if I had watched the whole thing.
Post by: Aklyon on May 01, 2012, 05:58:40 pm
Post by: Lord Dullard on May 01, 2012, 05:59:52 pm
*CLICK* (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tlyoung/sacred-hearts-coven-a-dark-comedy?ref=search)
Spoiler: AHHHHHHHHH (click to show/hide)
Post by: JoshuaFH on May 01, 2012, 06:14:09 pm
Hahaha, wow, okay. I braved actually looking further into some of these. Painful, but worth it for the laughs.
*CLICK* (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tlyoung/sacred-hearts-coven-a-dark-comedy?ref=search)Spoiler: AHHHHHHHHH (click to show/hide)
I need a hundred or so of that picture onto a flier or a balloon, and then I will climb to the highest tower I can find and cast them into the wind where new people my stumble over them and be awed by this terrible sight.
Post by: MrWiggles on May 01, 2012, 06:19:59 pm
Whats sad about a Docu on the fan community for ICP? I wouldnt mind watching that, assuming it was neutral POV, academic and educational.
Some of the weird, but not sad, like the Brothel kickstarter, but at the same time, I'm glad they're posting it. Though I happen to be of the mind that sex workers shouldn't be taboo, but a legal, regulated and tax industry.
Post by: Lord Dullard on May 01, 2012, 06:36:45 pm
Right-o.
As for the startup sexworkers: you realize these people are asking for money, right? I mean... if you need to do a Kickstarter to get your whoring business rolling, you're obviously in the wrong industry. As with most of these 'projects', the problems are facepalmingly-obvious. Yeah, SOME of them have good enough intentions (like the hippie newspaper lady), but that doesn't outweigh the fact that the way they went about putting together these Kickstarters is really pathetic.
Post by: Leafsnail on May 01, 2012, 06:39:09 pm
I dont think most of those are sad. Some of them looked pretty cool, like the Hubble Spacecards.It's still kindof sad if noone pledges anything though.
Post by: nenjin on May 01, 2012, 06:48:40 pm
Post by: PTTG?? on May 01, 2012, 06:52:57 pm
Post by: Megaman on May 01, 2012, 06:54:49 pm
Post by: PTTG?? on May 01, 2012, 07:00:34 pm
Lol, the only donation was someone paying to give him advice in the comments.
Me.
Post by: penguinofhonor on May 01, 2012, 07:02:07 pm
Post by: PTTG?? on May 01, 2012, 08:19:41 pm
Post by: Scelly9 on May 01, 2012, 08:20:16 pm
Some of those projects are... painfully bad. I actually chickened out over watching the 'comedian' lady's in the #1 spot. I was afraid it would make me cringe so much I'd have an aneurysm or something.Linky?
Post by: Lord Dullard on May 01, 2012, 08:24:15 pm
Some of those projects are... painfully bad. I actually chickened out over watching the 'comedian' lady's in the #1 spot. I was afraid it would make me cringe so much I'd have an aneurysm or something.Linky?
It's on this project page (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/619653739/please-love-me-a-hilarious-one-woman-show-by-stand). I haven't watched it and I have no idea how awful/boring/hilarious it is, so I take no responsibility for any reaction caused by it.
That said, let me know, so I can decide whether I actually want to force myself to see it or not.
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on May 01, 2012, 09:00:58 pm
why wasn't this aproved? this project deserved a chance to properly fail. i've seen less interesting projects go live
Post by: Skyrunner on May 01, 2012, 09:07:17 pm
Post by: Draco18s on May 01, 2012, 09:08:02 pm
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/303082050/62677132?token=80cb56b7
why wasn't this aproved? this project deserved a chance to properly fail. i've seen less interesting projects go live
What.
Only this picture can describe how I feel.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2NVBixW32ys/T5wEsUOqLnI/AAAAAAAABeU/LojPQk7rTY8/s1600/Dog-Funny-Face-Drink-From-There.jpg)
Post by: Lord Dullard on May 01, 2012, 09:13:26 pm
On a semi-related note, when my father was younger, he and his twin brother kept a journal of every toilet and urinal they used for a period of some years, with carefully written descriptions of the aforementioned replete with information about their noise level, comfort of seating or aesthetic points of interest in the room (or the wall being stared at in the case of urinals), location of the facilities within the building, et cetera.
Probably worth mentioning these are the same two men who, being identical twins, would occasionally switch girlfriends to get 'comparisons'. If you know what I mean.
Post by: Aklyon on May 01, 2012, 09:14:21 pm
Post by: Scelly9 on May 01, 2012, 09:24:16 pm
would occasionally switch girlfriends to get 'comparisons'0.o
Post by: Megaman on May 01, 2012, 09:24:25 pm
Who would donate money so someone could shit on hotel beds?http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/303082050/62677132?token=80cb56b7
why wasn't this aproved? this project deserved a chance to properly fail. i've seen less interesting projects go live
What.
Only this picture can describe how I feel.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2NVBixW32ys/T5wEsUOqLnI/AAAAAAAABeU/LojPQk7rTY8/s1600/Dog-Funny-Face-Drink-From-There.jpg)
Post by: JoshuaFH on May 01, 2012, 09:28:46 pm
Who would donate money so someone could shit on hotel beds?http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/303082050/62677132?token=80cb56b7
why wasn't this aproved? this project deserved a chance to properly fail. i've seen less interesting projects go live
What.
Only this picture can describe how I feel.
Dog.Jpg
Alot of people, I'd be willing to bet.
Post by: Knight of Fools on May 01, 2012, 09:52:03 pm
Friend: "Can you poop without peeing?"
Me: "Wha?"
Post by: Lord Dullard on May 01, 2012, 10:09:40 pm
Post by: Knight of Fools on May 01, 2012, 10:12:32 pm
I didn't ask.
Post by: Draco18s on May 01, 2012, 11:05:18 pm
cloaca
One of my favorite words.
Although I admit, it's partly because you can say it on day-time TV.
Post by: Enzo on May 02, 2012, 12:07:38 am
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/303082050/62677132?token=80cb56b7
why wasn't this aproved? this project deserved a chance to properly fail. i've seen less interesting projects go live
Really, he needs $85k to write a book on how people react when you poop in their bed? They don't fucking like it.
Pretty sure it's a joke, though. His name's "Jasper S Preston Esq" and his picture is a kid with a paper bag over his head. Actually no, careful examination indicates it's definitely a joke. Read the rewards :/
Post by: penguinofhonor on May 02, 2012, 12:28:45 am
Quote from: PLEDGE $1500 OR MORE
The $100 level polaroid and hotel item, a signed first edition of the book, PLUS I will come to your home and make a personal deposit on your bed. This personal deposit will receive the full Defecation Vacation treatment (photo and short story) and be added to the official Defecation Vacation website, which will be set up upon funding. These entries may also appear in future printings of the book.
this is pretty fantastic though
on a side note, how does one go about getting esq appended to the end of their name? i might be interested if it doesn't require any real work
Post by: Megaman on May 02, 2012, 12:32:58 am
Post by: Sensei on May 02, 2012, 12:42:18 am
Anyway, from the Your World comments:
Quote from: Commentator "Rocket Launcher"
I see you removed the option to buy stocks. Good on you. Believe it or not, I'd hate to see you get in trouble over this.
Quote from: Ellwood Bartlett, Esquire
Actually I removed it because all the available stocks have been issued.Facepalm? Head-desk? Those are getting old. I need something new to describe what has happened.
Post by: Megaman on May 02, 2012, 12:44:59 am
Post by: NobodyPro on May 02, 2012, 12:54:10 am
Post by: PTTG?? on May 02, 2012, 01:52:21 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Leafsnail on May 02, 2012, 07:27:11 am
on a side note, how does one go about getting esq appended to the end of their name? i might be interested if it doesn't require any real workI occasionally get it on spam letters that are really trying too hard to act deferential.
Post by: lordcooper on May 02, 2012, 10:49:00 am
Post by: penguinofhonor on May 02, 2012, 11:43:56 am
on a side note, how does one go about getting esq appended to the end of their name? i might be interested if it doesn't require any real work
I occasionally get it on spam letters that are really trying too hard to act deferential.
Hm, if I use spam letters as a precedent I might be able to get other people to start using it too.
Post by: Tilla on May 02, 2012, 01:23:51 pm
Post by: nenjin on May 02, 2012, 01:25:58 pm
Post by: Tilla on May 02, 2012, 01:28:34 pm
I think were now 3/3 for people talking about Mythic :PWell this thread is over 50 pages and I went back 3 without seeing any.
Post by: Skyrunner on May 02, 2012, 02:01:35 pm
The four other games on the Pure Bang site are non-3D, not MMORPGs, and also are social games. D:
Post by: Scelly9 on May 02, 2012, 05:15:12 pm
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/05/01/kickstopped-the-strange-case-of-mythic-gods-men/ This one got caught before it took off - the first outright scam I've seen. Most of the art is stolen and slightly tweaked in photoshop from other sites, and none of their staff are actually who they claimed they were (Blizzard veterans etc). Good that Kickstarter managed to catch them in the act.Kickstarter didn't. Random internet people did.
Post by: Sensei on May 02, 2012, 11:28:37 pm
Post by: Megaman on May 02, 2012, 11:40:27 pm
Post by: zombie urist on May 02, 2012, 11:44:02 pm
Also he's already selling in game land. The lowest price is $100.
Post by: Megaman on May 02, 2012, 11:46:16 pm
What
Post by: zombie urist on May 02, 2012, 11:50:48 pm
In his store he's accepting $1 donations for a beta invite.
And the horse mount requires you to be lvl 10 to use. ::)
Post by: MaximumZero on May 03, 2012, 12:00:09 am
At the same time, the rational part of me wants to pour gasoline on the fire so that the damned thing will burn longer.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 03, 2012, 12:07:49 am
Post by: MaximumZero on May 03, 2012, 12:08:45 am
Post by: Draco18s on May 03, 2012, 07:44:09 am
Told him that I hope he continues with his idea, so I can see him end up broke and miserable.
And eat popcorn.
Post by: lordcooper on May 03, 2012, 07:47:03 am
Post by: Draco18s on May 03, 2012, 07:51:16 am
Bit of a dick move don't you think?
And?
He hasn't accepted any advice that isn't his own, continually talks about how he can pull it off, despite having no experience, and how he's got millions he can throw at this project.
He's going to fail, it's a given. I'm just along for the entertainment value of that failure. So I can laugh and say, "I told you so" when he crashes and burns.
If he does miraculously pull it off and have a real, playable, marketable game at the end that doesn't have god awful mechanics and a hodgepodge of themes, etc. and he's still sane. I will eat my hat.
Post by: Karlito on May 03, 2012, 09:19:26 am
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on May 03, 2012, 09:55:41 am
Quote from: Bartlett @ Kickstarter
Update #28: We are done!
Posted less than a minute ago
Well with kickstater that is. So I want to send out a great big thanks to everyone who supported the project. Who donated because they believe in the project and who believe in me. We are still going forward and will continue to make this game a reality. So keep looking at the website and sign up to get updates. As we build content we will post it there.
To all the haters out there. Keep up he good work. You have been fun to play with. It will be great when the game comes out and you all are playing it and biting your tongue the entire time. Have fun.
Just FYI this is my last message here. I won't be looking at kickstater ever again. Should we try crowdfunding again we will use another services.
Again thanks. http://www.yourworldinc.com
Post by: Aklyon on May 03, 2012, 10:03:41 am
Post by: MaximumZero on May 03, 2012, 10:14:52 am
and he's still sane....he doesn't seem to have a strong grip on reality now.
Post by: PTTG?? on May 03, 2012, 10:24:29 am
Post by: nenjin on May 03, 2012, 10:46:12 am
2. Hooker Bots.
3. ??
4. Profit.
Post by: Newbunkle on May 03, 2012, 10:52:08 am
would occasionally switch girlfriends to get 'comparisons'0.o
Yes, that's my reaction too.
So did the girls know about it or was it bait-and-switch rape?
Post by: Lord Dullard on May 03, 2012, 10:56:56 am
would occasionally switch girlfriends to get 'comparisons'0.o
Yes, that's my reaction too.
So did the girls know about it or was it bait-and-switch rape?
Yeah, relatively certain they had no idea. Then again I never asked that much more about it...
Post by: lordcooper on May 03, 2012, 12:03:56 pm
Post by: Lord Dullard on May 03, 2012, 12:04:58 pm
Post by: lordcooper on May 03, 2012, 12:08:00 pm
Post by: nenjin on May 03, 2012, 12:11:55 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on May 03, 2012, 12:13:47 pm
Post by: Aklyon on May 03, 2012, 12:32:42 pm
Previously it seems the phrase was only really used by someone who was really angry at their camera (and the odd political blogger). I guess we need to say the phrase in as many other places as possible to knock down the bay12 hit.So we're trying to do the inverse of what an xkcd forum thread did?
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 03, 2012, 12:47:37 pm
You wrong about the part I bolded. He accept the hookerbot idea.Bit of a dick move don't you think?
And?
He hasn't accepted any advice that isn't his own, continually talks about how he can pull it off, despite having no experience, and how he's got millions he can throw at this project.
He's going to fail, it's a given. I'm just along for the entertainment value of that failure. So I can laugh and say, "I told you so" when he crashes and burns.
If he does miraculously pull it off and have a real, playable, marketable game at the end that doesn't have god awful mechanics and a hodgepodge of themes, etc. and he's still sane. I will eat my hat.
Post by: Zangi on May 03, 2012, 01:12:30 pm
I don't don't know, Bait-and-Switch rape is a catchy term and we probably won't stop talking about it that easily. I actually considered using it in sig as a quote. Anyway one more thing:Naw man, he conceded to the demands of a 'backer'.You wrong about the part I bolded. He accept the hookerbot idea.Bit of a dick move don't you think?
And?
He hasn't accepted any advice that isn't his own, continually talks about how he can pull it off, despite having no experience, and how he's got millions he can throw at this project.
He's going to fail, it's a given. I'm just along for the entertainment value of that failure. So I can laugh and say, "I told you so" when he crashes and burns.
If he does miraculously pull it off and have a real, playable, marketable game at the end that doesn't have god awful mechanics and a hodgepodge of themes, etc. and he's still sane. I will eat my hat.
Post by: Sensei on May 03, 2012, 05:43:11 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on May 03, 2012, 05:45:47 pm
Post by: Karlito on May 03, 2012, 05:49:24 pm
The last comments are one supporter who can't spell telling Bartlett how great he is.I sort of think that guy might be subtly trolling.
And yeah, Bartlet has had that stuff on the site for the last week, at least. I guess somehow he thinks he can make the game with a fraction of his original funding goal.
Quote from: Bunky
We have raise $25K outside of kickstarter and with that money we will be producing the following content.
5/1 - $10,000 - start
6/1 - $5,000 - Characters done (modeled, textured, rigged, and animated)
7/1 - $5,000 - Buildings done
7/23 - $5,000 - Finish (Everything in Hero Engine and set up as a small level with foliage set pieces)
Post by: Draco18s on May 03, 2012, 06:00:50 pm
The last comments are one supporter who can't spell telling Bartlett how great he is.I sort of think that guy might be subtly trolling.
And yeah, Bartlet has had that stuff on the site for the last week, at least. I guess somehow he thinks he can make the game with a fraction of his original funding goal.Quote from: BunkyWe have raise $25K outside of kickstarter and with that money we will be producing the following content.
5/1 - $10,000 - start
6/1 - $5,000 - Characters done (modeled, textured, rigged, and animated)
7/1 - $5,000 - Buildings done
7/23 - $5,000 - Finish (Everything in Hero Engine and set up as a small level with foliage set pieces)
*Facepalm*
Post by: Lord Dullard on May 03, 2012, 06:02:30 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_jJ4YemQTU
Post by: Skyrunner on May 03, 2012, 06:16:45 pm
D:
Post by: Sowelu on May 03, 2012, 06:23:58 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on May 03, 2012, 06:25:00 pm
Remember, content is the entire game.
Eh?
Post by: Sowelu on May 03, 2012, 06:38:07 pm
Post by: Sensei on May 03, 2012, 06:55:48 pm
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 03, 2012, 07:04:41 pm
Post by: Servant Corps on May 03, 2012, 07:18:34 pm
If this is true, that pretty much put a damper on a plan of mine to launch a kickstarter of my own.
Post by: lordcooper on May 03, 2012, 07:22:01 pm
E: Jesus Fucking Christ, he's taking that hookerbot shit way too seriously. The guy who suggested it in the first place was blatantly just trolling too.
Post by: nenjin on May 03, 2012, 07:24:04 pm
I'd be really interested to know what the average % over-funded is for successful Kickstarter games. If there's an effect where games that have already succeeded draw more dollars. Because if that were true, you could plan for $2k and make it easily, and end up with $12k.
Post by: Karlito on May 03, 2012, 07:26:38 pm
EDIT:
I'd be really interested to know what the average % over-funded is for successful Kickstarter games. If there's an effect where games that have already succeeded draw more dollars. Because if that were true, you could plan for $2k and make it easily, and end up with $12k.There's probably some truth that that at least from the fact that recently successful projects are posted on the site's front page.
Post by: nenjin on May 03, 2012, 07:29:17 pm
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on May 03, 2012, 07:57:21 pm
the lowest tier reward will include not being executed by the deathsquads. higher tier rewards include positions on the government
Post by: penguinofhonor on May 03, 2012, 08:04:40 pm
According to Gawker, 25% of all gaming kickstarters meet their funding goals (http://gawker.com/5906711/three+fourths-of-video-game-kickstarters-fail?tag=kickstarter).
If this is true, that pretty much put a damper on a plan of mine to launch a kickstarter of my own.
25% is pretty damn high once you factor in all the idiots. I honestly can't think of a single promising (PC game) project that failed to reach it's target.
Yeah, 25% sounds like a pretty high number. That's a high enough number that I feel if you had a legitimately good idea that was presented well and had a reasonable goal, it would have a very high chance of getting reached. I feel like projects like that are at most 30-40% of the stuff there.
Post by: Lord Dullard on May 03, 2012, 08:06:23 pm
hm... wondering if i can start a kickstarter on world domination
the lowest tier reward will include not being executed by the deathsquads. higher tier rewards include positions on the government
"Hello, worthless peon. This is your soon-to-be Overlord, ----- -------. As I plan on being a progressive Overlord, I have shunned more traditional funding methods such as digging up troves of Nazi gold or selling orphaned children on the organ harvesting black market, and have instead decided to turn to crowdfunding, the wave of the future. As you may imagine, the startup costs for an evil empire are quite prohibitive. This is where you come in, peasant."
Post by: Skyrunner on May 03, 2012, 08:11:37 pm
Post by: Draco18s on May 03, 2012, 08:48:43 pm
hm... wondering if i can start a kickstarter on world domination
the lowest tier reward will include not being executed by the deathsquads. higher tier rewards include positions on the government
A friend of mine helpfully points out that this isn't technically against Kickstarter's TOS.
Post by: Skyrunner on May 03, 2012, 09:06:16 pm
hm... wondering if i can start a kickstarter on world domination
the lowest tier reward will include not being executed by the deathsquads. higher tier rewards include positions on the government
A friend of mine helpfully points out that this isn't technically against Kickstarter's TOS.
Nah, 'offensive' can cover anything.
Post by: Lord Dullard on May 03, 2012, 09:09:59 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on May 03, 2012, 09:22:55 pm
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on May 03, 2012, 09:29:09 pm
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/theandyerickson/hench-the-game-a-card-and-dice-game?ref=users
the guy probably didn't know where to advertise this.
Post by: Grakelin on May 03, 2012, 09:40:12 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on May 03, 2012, 09:45:43 pm
If he does miraculously pull it off and have a real, playable, marketable game at the end that doesn't have god awful mechanics and a hodgepodge of themes, etc. and he's still sane. I will eat my hat.Reminds me of the xkcd comic "Constructive" (No. 810), particularly the last two panels (especially the last panel):
"But what will you do when spammers train their bots to make automated constructive and helpful comments?"
"MISSION. FUCKING. ACCOMPLISHED."
Post by: AlStar on May 03, 2012, 09:53:50 pm
hm... wondering if i can start a kickstarter on world domination
the lowest tier reward will include not being executed by the deathsquads. higher tier rewards include positions on the government
Reminded me of this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Edit: Curse you RedWarrior! Totally stole my thunder.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 03, 2012, 09:56:05 pm
This is a big thread. What is a hookerbot?Exactly what it sounds like. Being more specific some troll suggested that there should be hookerbots in the game, whats his name balks at this, troll pesters him a little, the idiot/idea man caves. Also one term, unlike bait-and-switch rape, which we do not come out on the top with Google.
Edit: anyway here is in counter to the threads title here is (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/847271320/ogre-designers-edition) an awesome kickstarter which is way beyond its goal and still has a week to go.
Post by: Scelly9 on May 03, 2012, 10:16:42 pm
while researching for my next kickstarter project, which for safety reasons i'll keep secret, i stumbled upon this unfortunately unsuccessful projectAwwwww That sounded awesome.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/theandyerickson/hench-the-game-a-card-and-dice-game?ref=users
the guy probably didn't know where to advertise this.
Post by: Scelly9 on May 03, 2012, 10:21:03 pm
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cybergames/chrome-online-mmo
Post by: nenjin on May 03, 2012, 10:33:41 pm
This is a big thread. What is a hookerbot?Exactly what it sounds like. Being more specific some troll suggested that there should be hookerbots in the game, whats his name balks at this, troll pesters him a little, the idiot/idea man caves. Also one term, unlike bait-and-switch rape, which we do not come out on the top with Google.
Edit: anyway here is in counter to the threads title here is (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/847271320/ogre-designers-edition) an awesome kickstarter which is way beyond its goal and still has a week to go.
Someone finally got around to creating this thread's good cousing, btw. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=108493.0)
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 03, 2012, 10:35:55 pm
Post by: jester on May 04, 2012, 01:06:43 am
Steve Jackson: 'So you know, if you can spare it, id like 20 grand to make my game, if you wouldnt mind'
Gaming public: 'STAND STILL SO WE CAN JAM 1000's OF DOLLARS INTO EVERY ORIFICE OF YOUR BODY'
Post by: Scelly9 on May 04, 2012, 01:10:44 am
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 04, 2012, 01:12:29 am
Post by: Scelly9 on May 04, 2012, 01:14:37 am
Plus its a game where one side gets to control a whole army and the other side gets a tank so awesome its more like a fortress on the go. Oh and yeah, Steve JacksonI think the Steve Jackson part is the most important part. On a related note: SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!
Post by: jester on May 04, 2012, 01:18:22 am
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 04, 2012, 01:52:56 am
Post by: Draco18s on May 04, 2012, 08:55:38 am
Played Ninja Burger with a bunch of college friends and I shit you not this was said:
"STOP READING THE DAMN CARDS AND JUST TAKE YOUR TURN!"
Ayup.
And a few minutes later, the player who was in the lead, said, "You know, some of the characters are just outright 'better' than the rest. Mine, for example...sigh."
Post by: nenjin on May 04, 2012, 09:07:35 am
Post by: Draco18s on May 04, 2012, 09:46:25 am
Not going to chip into the SJ game. I mean, he's Steve freaking Jackson. He needs $20,000 to do a game like EA needs $100,000 to make one.
Also this.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 04, 2012, 01:57:13 pm
Post by: Sowelu on May 04, 2012, 02:05:04 pm
Munchkin is also the game of choice of
I dunno. His other stuff is good, but those two games are easily near the top of my list of "least favorite nerdy games".
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 04, 2012, 02:21:16 pm
Just going to put it out there that GURPS mechanically is not a bad system. I can't speak about actual play but I have read the rules and from what I saw it should work quite well. Also Munchkin is fun if you can understand the premise it was created under. It was created to represent being a Munchkin in a card game.
[/defending things I like from perceived slight]
Post by: penguinofhonor on May 04, 2012, 02:22:57 pm
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 04, 2012, 02:25:17 pm
Post by: freeformschooler on May 04, 2012, 02:35:37 pm
Post by: Draco18s on May 04, 2012, 02:43:01 pm
if you don't wing a lot of things it can become painfully slow, especially in combat.
Que?
In my (admittedly limited) experience of playing GURPS, combat was very fast. We've got players who do something like 2d6 to 5d6 damage (people and such have 10 hit points). On average hitting someone means they're dead.
My complaint about GURPS is that with two qualities (Wild Talent, Retention) you can effectively increase your exp/karma gain by 2 every session (on top of the 3 to 5 you get for having been present).
Post by: PTTG?? on May 04, 2012, 03:04:22 pm
Post by: nenjin on May 04, 2012, 03:39:13 pm
To be fair he is not asking money to do the game, he was going to release it anyway. The Kickstarter is so he could release more then just a few thousand copies of it and also to gauge interest. I mean really one the thing that happens if they reach 550k (which being at ~524k is near) they start interviewing for a Orge line manager. This is not and never was about getting money to make something or finance something. It was all about seeing how interested people where in having the Orge line make a comeback.
There were plenty of ways to gauge interest in Steve Jackson games outside of Kickstarter. So I disagree that it "was never about getting money."
Post by: Grakelin on May 04, 2012, 03:55:04 pm
Its Steve Jackson. He made GURPS and Munchkin. Anything he tries to do will get people interested.
Funny, I hate both those things. >:-(
But I'm not an anti-Jackson Grognard. I liked this one pirate game he made once.
Post by: Servant Corps on May 04, 2012, 06:55:56 pm
To be fair he is not asking money to do the game, he was going to release it anyway. The Kickstarter is so he could release more then just a few thousand copies of it and also to gauge interest. I mean really one the thing that happens if they reach 550k (which being at ~524k is near) they start interviewing for a Orge line manager. This is not and never was about getting money to make something or finance something. It was all about seeing how interested people where in having the Orge line make a comeback.
There were plenty of ways to gauge interest in Steve Jackson games outside of Kickstarter. So I disagree that it "was never about getting money."
I'll defend Steve Jackson here in that trying to ask people if they were willing to throw away their money to him for preorders is way better than asking, say, on a forum that may be frequented by hyper-fans of ORGE who may not reflect the average consumer. It's cheaper to say you want to give money to Steve Jackson than it is to actually do it.
There may be other ways to gauge interest, but Kickstarter is probably the most effective method of doing so.
Post by: Scelly9 on May 04, 2012, 08:07:19 pm
But a lot of people love them.Its Steve Jackson. He made GURPS and Munchkin. Anything he tries to do will get people interested.Funny, I hate both those things. >:-(
Post by: nenjin on May 04, 2012, 08:26:09 pm
I do mind paying up front to large professional corporations because I think that leads to zero accountability with them. So I really should be happy that it's doing so well, but again...I don't really want Kickstarter to turn into an alternative form of marketing and preorders for the AAA industry.
Post by: Lord Dullard on May 04, 2012, 08:41:34 pm
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 04, 2012, 08:43:13 pm
Post by: nenjin on May 04, 2012, 09:32:37 pm
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 04, 2012, 10:00:19 pm
Post by: nenjin on May 04, 2012, 11:17:23 pm
Quote
But then its not EA or Activision who is doing the Kickstarter, its Treyarch. There is a difference and its a big one. If it failed to live up to what was expected then Treyarch would be the one personally losing face, you can't not take responcibility when your the one who took public responsibility
You do know that Treyarch is owned by Activision, just like EA owns DICE and Zenimax owns Bethesda right? If devs appear on Kickstarter, they're doing so either at the behest of, or with permission from the corp. That'd make them both party to its success or failure.
Quote
Also what would be the difference from Steve Jackson asking for support in something we all know he can deliver on and Treyarch asking his fandom the same thing thing? Does playing CoD suddenly make you less of a valid supporter on Kickstarter?
No. But I'd question why a game series that is the #1 selling piece of entertainment in recorded history would need a Kickstarter. And I'm not sure many of the fans would, they'd just plop down money on the next CoD installment.
It's one thing when you're fans of a game that hasn't seen the light of day in decades because publishers wouldn't back it or have ruined it in previous attempts. I think it's another when you're a fan of a game that makes millions upon millions upon millions in sales every single year, that gets cranked out like clockwork and has one of the biggest assholes in gaming at the helm of the company.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 04, 2012, 11:24:35 pm
Post by: jester on May 05, 2012, 12:54:43 am
Post by: MrWiggles on May 05, 2012, 06:01:27 am
Hobbist Gaming industry has very thin margins, and fairly high production cost. The reason why Steve Jackson Games has been around as long as it has is because Steve Jackson & Games have had so far a brilliant ability to read trends and feel the future for the industry.
Munchin, is a very well selling game, but it's not selling like M:tG well. The other source of income that Steve Jackson Games has is it's rpg on line store, which also have low margins.
The Orge game is very very expensive to make, (to physically make, not including the money on RD and prototyping) , expensive to ship, and takes /alot/ of storage space due to its HUGE (relatively speaking to modern hobbist games) size.
It's very expensive product to do anything with. When Steve Jackson said they'd only be able to make 3k for one production run they figure it'd sell in about a year, that should tell just how expensive, and how low selling they thought this product would be.
Kickstarter is a great place for someone, liken Steve Jackson Games. A company that has a long history on delivering products but doesn't have the easiest time in getting venture capitalism to invest in new product lines.
And with the Kickstarter, it allows Steve Jackson & Game to have pre-orders, and to see just how far they can really take the game, while lessening the damage of Over Production.
Post by: Wayward Device on May 05, 2012, 09:02:07 am
I've resigned myself to the fact that there'll never be a firefly kickstarter, but stuff like this raises my hopes for other revivals of non-economically viable stuff I love.
Post by: MrWiggles on May 05, 2012, 09:19:46 am
Probably the only really healthy company for hobbyist gaming is WotC. Though, that's starting to change now, Steve Jackson Games boasted some impressive 20% increase in sales from 2010.
I'll stop ranting now.
Post by: PTTG?? on May 05, 2012, 12:21:13 pm
Post by: nenjin on May 05, 2012, 01:49:27 pm
I don't see anywhere on Kickstarter that says if you make more then a certain amount of money you are not allowed to use it. If we deny one person for making too much money where does it stop?
I did note above this is a hole in perspective because it's the kind of thing you can't put a number on. It's one of those things I feel but I can't put a rule to.
As for SJG, I spent most of the 90s in gaming hobbyists shops. And his games were everywhere (and they were some of the best and most playable.) So while his games may not be up to the level MtG or GWS, he was always sitting right next to them on the shelves.
Post by: blackmagechill on May 05, 2012, 01:53:49 pm
Bartlett is now John Videogames.
Post by: MrWiggles on May 05, 2012, 04:04:53 pm
Post by: Aklyon on May 05, 2012, 04:08:41 pm
Post by: Lord Dullard on May 05, 2012, 04:25:48 pm
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 05, 2012, 04:26:01 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on May 05, 2012, 04:35:12 pm
That has to do with the maturity of GURPS at the time. During the early nineties and even through crash of '94 SJG was #3-#4 largest, but that when TSR was still about, White Worlf was doing LARPS in Seattle and WotC was almost sued out of existence (I wanna say by FASA.).I don't see anywhere on Kickstarter that says if you make more then a certain amount of money you are not allowed to use it. If we deny one person for making too much money where does it stop?
I did note above this is a hole in perspective because it's the kind of thing you can't put a number on. It's one of those things I feel but I can't put a rule to.
As for SJG, I spent most of the 90s in gaming hobbyists shops. And his games were everywhere (and they were some of the best and most playable.) So while his games may not be up to the level MtG or GWS, he was always sitting right next to them on the shelves.
Post by: blackmagechill on May 05, 2012, 05:39:59 pm
No wai, that's a satire of Your World?That's an insult to John Videogames.
Post by: lemon10 on May 05, 2012, 08:12:13 pm
No wai, that's a satire of Your World?Its mainly a satire of mythic (aka, the kickstarter fraud attempt), but it is also kind of mocking generic terrible kickstarter attempts too.
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on May 05, 2012, 09:08:32 pm
Post by: Grakelin on May 07, 2012, 09:11:03 pm
Why do you think Steve Jackson and Steve Jackson Game is a company that is well to do?
Hobbist Gaming industry has very thin margins, and fairly high production cost. The reason why Steve Jackson Games has been around as long as it has is because Steve Jackson & Games have had so far a brilliant ability to read trends and feel the future for the industry.
Munchin, is a very well selling game, but it's not selling like M:tG well. The other source of income that Steve Jackson Games has is it's rpg on line store, which also have low margins.
The Orge game is very very expensive to make, (to physically make, not including the money on RD and prototyping) , expensive to ship, and takes /alot/ of storage space due to its HUGE (relatively speaking to modern hobbist games) size.
It's very expensive product to do anything with. When Steve Jackson said they'd only be able to make 3k for one production run they figure it'd sell in about a year, that should tell just how expensive, and how low selling they thought this product would be.
Kickstarter is a great place for someone, liken Steve Jackson Games. A company that has a long history on delivering products but doesn't have the easiest time in getting venture capitalism to invest in new product lines.
And with the Kickstarter, it allows Steve Jackson & Game to have pre-orders, and to see just how far they can really take the game, while lessening the damage of Over Production.
Uhm, I don't want to hear any of this silly "It's not real richness bro" stuff about SJG. SJG makes a lot of money off of Munchkin. A lot of money. And it makes enough money that it can afford to stay in business and pay its employees livable wages. They make enough to market and distribute their products. They don't actually need Kickstarter. Especially not to produce and ship an already developed game.
I call this poor Kickstarter usage.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 07, 2012, 09:36:25 pm
Oh and one more thing, I don't know what you consider rich but making enough to stay in business is not really cutting it for me. I know I would not consider myself rich at that point, just well off. Of course this is somewhat moot as there is no definition of "rich" that I know of that puts a real dollar value on it and is widely accepted as its partly a perception thing.
Post by: nenjin on May 07, 2012, 09:57:38 pm
But on the other hand, SJG has published 50+ freaking games so far, some of them large ticket items, many smalls, and then all the CCG. SJG is, by definition, their own publisher. So for SJG not to make something without an upfront offering....I mean, Dork Tower? They've gambled on things in the past. It's cool his interests and Kickstarter aligned and he basically got to see what fans of SJG think in a $ value.
I'm just sort of beginning to wonder if that's what it is, sort of a popularity contest, especially when it comes to well-known companies versus well-known intellectual properties. (Which are both distinct from just plain old good ideas that could succeed.)
SJG in Kickstarter sits in this weird middle ground for me where they've got as much right to kick start an old project.....but they're also independent and successful enough that they could have done it on their own. Now of course, with that much fan support (and money showing) I'm sure they're totally committed. Somehow it just doesn't settle quite right for me. I just don't want Kickstarter being used for speculative ventures. Or as a button to activate fan bases into disgorging money. It's really cool to feel like you're part of some genuine groundswell of support (and I'm not implying Ogre's is anything but.) But it's the kind of thing that swiftly gets taken advantage of.
Post by: Sowelu on May 07, 2012, 10:06:11 pm
White Worlf was doing LARPS in Seattle
And they were awesome, just for the record.
Post by: Grakelin on May 07, 2012, 10:25:39 pm
In 2007, SJG had a gross revenue of $2.7 million. They employ 17 people. That is a gross revenue of $158,000 per person. Obviously they aren't all making $158,000 each, but when you compare that to a megacorporation (such as OpenText, which grossed $232,000 per employee in 2011), they're not exactly doing badly.
You might argue that the operating costs eat up most of the $2.7 million in annual revenue, if only that were true.
This is not an impoverished business by any means. The board game industry is not suffering. It is growing and expanding, and companies like SJG, Fantasy Flight, and Rio Grande are all in the black.
Post by: mainiac on May 07, 2012, 10:46:35 pm
When the subject turns to manufacturing things people tend to be biased into thinking it's wildly cheaper then it is. Manufacturing is super duper expensive when you can't take advantage of vast economies of scale and cheap foreign labor. I used to work in a small shop that made among other things custom bolts. The premium we charged for these bolts was like 1 dollar over a bolt of similar dimensions. And this was a shop that was saving huge money on capital expenses due to using refurbished equipment picked up for a song and super cheap real estate.
Post by: lemon10 on May 07, 2012, 10:51:35 pm
They then fly to the games stores in their trusty flying chariots and drop the games off.
Post by: nenjin on May 07, 2012, 10:53:56 pm
Post by: JanusTwoface on May 08, 2012, 10:56:08 am
On the other hand, when you've just offloaded the cost of manufacturing to your first 10,000 customers....Who exactly do you think generally pays for the cost of manufacturing?
I mean, most people will have to use their own funds or funding from a third party, but they're fully expecting to get paid back.
And look how many of the backers are at the $100/$150 level. About 3000 out of the 4000 total. That's basically just people per-ordering the game. And they're paying just what people would have paid anyways, except a chunk of them may never have noticed the game and missed the 3000 order run otherwise. Or if they all did, no one else could have bought one.
Also the larger rewards that people have actually gone for. I doubt they would have been offered or gone for had they not done the Kickstarter thing and some of them are pretty cool.
So really, it looks like the people backing the project are happy, SJG is happy, and Kickstarter is happy. Heck, I can't confirm it, but I bet super high profile, overfunded projects like this end up pulling in money to other projects as well. Once you've already dropped $100 on a game, $5 here or there doesn't seem so bad. So how is it a bad Kickstarter project exactly?
(also partially in reply to previous comments)
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 08, 2012, 11:11:06 am
Post by: nenjin on May 08, 2012, 11:21:00 am
Quote
Heck, I can't confirm it, but I bet super high profile, overfunded projects like this end up pulling in money to other projects as well. Once you've already dropped $100 on a game, $5 here or there doesn't seem so bad. So how is it a bad Kickstarter project exactly?
I don't think I agree with that assessment. Donating to your favorite game =/= donating to other games in smaller amounts. Fan loyalty drives these projects but I don't think that automatically includes a trickledown effect to things they're not fans of. I've seen at least 4 other games on Kickstarter I might have donated to, but my $125 backing of Shadowrun didn't make me go "Oh I've spent money. Now let me spend some more!"
To put it another way, yes after I bought my first game I on Steam I bought many more. But I didn't do that based on the fact it was on Steam. I did it based on the fact it was a game I wanted to play. So I don't think donating to Kickstarter means you'll donate to Kickstarter because it's donating to Kickstarter.
Quote
Who exactly do you think generally pays for the cost of manufacturing?
If the cost of manufacturing was $100,000 for x runs, and you've made 5 times that off your customer base, then you have essentially passed off all costs to them and are now dealing in pure profit. There's zero cost to the producer, even assumed cost at that point.
Which should be turned around into more content (which it has in Ogre's case.) But if manufacturing is completely paid for already, they can effectively charge whatever they want on the product because there's no risk on their end. They don't have to manage a price point beyond customer willingness to buy. They could plot another z runs at y cost out to the point where they're no longer making profit. Or they just reduce the number of runs they make, and collect all the rest as profit. So while you could have a $10 game and do 1 million runs of it.....you instead end up with a $60 game at 200,000 runs.
If everyone is happy, then everyone is happy. I just think it's setting a bad precedent where investors become consumers without ever actually being part of the profit sharing. People throw money at Kickstarters like they're buying stock, but really they're just paying up front (sometimes with proper incentives, sometimes not) for a product and all the "extra" just turns into someone's else's profit. In an ideal world, profit margins would be reasonable and excess would be funneled directly back into the product. But when the fan base goes insane and loads Kickstarters up with money...it'd take an incredibly moral businessperson to not exploit that for all its worth.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 08, 2012, 11:38:00 am
You do realize that if 100 or so dollars is what its basically started pre-selling for that with all they have added, while they will make profit they are not going to make fistsfulls of money. Do you realize how much it costs to setup manufacturing for something like this? Its not just another run of cards for Munchkin. This is a whole new manufacturing line with new dies and stuff. They can't even offset prices by using generic things like for instance generic game box or anything as its all uniquely sized for this game.
Post by: nenjin on May 08, 2012, 01:21:35 pm
Post by: mainiac on May 08, 2012, 02:32:30 pm
Yes there is a learning curve. No it is not remotely as downward sloping as you think. SJG is a bigger operation so it wouldn't be as bad for them. But delivering the quality product that people expect does not come cheap.
Post by: MrWiggles on May 08, 2012, 03:15:04 pm
2010 remarks five years of having a net profit, and this year, they so happen to have much higher profit margin then before, making about 3.5m, over a million form last year.
And the million dollars is probably already eaten up by Orge, which is probably why we're seeing Orge out this year, regardless how well the kickstarter went.
And I think we should be stressing, that The Stakeholder report, shows us GROSS, not Net. As in th 2.5m or the 3.5m dollar is before Taxes, Overhead, Payroll, Royalties and probably few other things.
SJG is doing well, but they aren't doing WotC well. They're being stable and viable. But they certainly dont have enough money to really experimenting on different product lines.
If you watch the Video on kickstarter, it would make Steve really happy not to work on Munchin game for a bit, as they're sorta locked into making munchin.
Post by: Grakelin on May 08, 2012, 05:06:03 pm
However, if we're trying to say that SJG is poor and its employees need our help to produce their games, we can't remove the payroll from our net income.
SJG is not doing WotC well because WotC is a subsidiary of a $4 billion corporation. To compare the two is ridiculous. It's like saying the bakery down the store isn't doing too well because they don't make as much as Wonder Bread.
...
You do realize that if 100 or so dollars is what its basically started pre-selling for that with all they have added, while they will make profit they are not going to make fistsfulls of money. Do you realize how much it costs to setup manufacturing for something like this? Its not just another run of cards for Munchkin. This is a whole new manufacturing line with new dies and stuff. They can't even offset prices by using generic things like for instance generic game box or anything as its all uniquely sized for this game.
I'm confused at what you're trying to claim. Let's look at how many people backed at $100 or more on the Kickstarter alone:
3,792 (as of May 8 ).
If we play pretend and cut all those down to just $100, that's still $379,200 in game sales. How much are they intending to pay for shipping, exactly? Especially when there are similarly massive, and cheaper, games (http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/12493/twilight-imperium-third-edition) on the market that didn't need a kickstarter to launch. Note that BGG lists the weight of these games. TI is 7.4 pounds, which expands rapidly once you start adding expansions. The last weighed version of Ogre is half a pound. I have seen the game in person. It is ridiculous that SJ is trying to make a 14 pound game out of that.
Since the Kickstarter goal was $20,000, I have to wonder what, exactly, would motivate somebody to tell us their manufacturing costs are crippling their ability to produce games.
I mean come on, guys. All my LGSes have big shelves filled with Munchkin goods. They're selling cheap boxes of easily reprinted cards for $20.00 a pop, often to the same people multiple times, and they've carved a sizable marketshare. Let's stop pretending these guys are a down-on-their-luck business in any sense.
Post by: MrWiggles on May 08, 2012, 07:48:54 pm
Oh shit, wow, the last time I peaked at that they had 2010 up, now they have 2011. Damn these last two ears have been great for Steve Jackson games. I guess getting Muchin into Target was quite the benefit. Or maybe I'm horribly butchering my millions here. XD
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 08, 2012, 08:45:41 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
No his business is not doing bad but Ogre is not why his business is doing good and the kind of money they would have had to put out up front for everything they are going to do now would be impossible to justify. There are now over nearly 4k people paying enough to get the game. He was only going to have made 3k copies of the game and probably it would have ended there.
I don't know what you think I am arguing though so let me be clear on this. I think that
having them use Kickstarter is better for them and Kickstarter as a whole. This is exactly the kind of
things I want to see this odd tool for raising money used for. They had a game and wanted to
make it better and because of this they are making it better and reaching a wider audience.
having them use Kickstarter is better for them and Kickstarter as a whole. This is exactly the kind of
things I want to see this odd tool for raising money used for. They had a game and wanted to
make it better and because of this they are making it better and reaching a wider audience.
Post by: alway on May 09, 2012, 05:02:23 am
Are you someone who like games, but also has cancer? Then this is just the game for you! It will help remind you that you have cancer! It's designed to play like a fantasy MMORPG, to give the illusion of escapism; but you know better, there is no escapism, you have cancer after all! By the way, you have cancer, remember?
They want 50k to make a fantasy MMORPG specifically catering to a subset of a niche, and which may or may not come off as offensive to said subset of said niche. They may be even more delusional than Bartlet; even he had a better grasp on the amount of monetary support it takes to create an MMORPG.
AND NOW IT'S SUPER FUN TIME (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1452526183/super-fun-time-0?ref=category)!!!! A game designed to pay homage to (see also: rip off) well known games of the past by creating a large number of minigames which will together make up SEWPER FUN TIEM. All the terrible games of a flash game website, but in a format which forces you to play through each and every last one.
Post by: nenjin on May 09, 2012, 09:47:44 am
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/421466407/oncolos-a-multiplayer-game-for-cancer-patients?ref=category
Are you someone who like games, but also has cancer? Then this is just the game for you! It will help remind you that you have cancer! It's designed to play like a fantasy MMORPG, to give the illusion of escapism; but you know better, there is no escapism, you have cancer after all! By the way, you have cancer, remember?
They want 50k to make a fantasy MMORPG specifically catering to a subset of a niche, and which may or may not come off as offensive to said subset of said niche. They may be even more delusional than Bartlet; even he had a better grasp on the amount of monetary support it takes to create an MMORPG.
I genuinely lol'd at this.
Post by: Servant Corps on May 09, 2012, 01:04:48 pm
At its worst? Way too abusable, with no accountability from Kickstarter or Amazon (since they profit when the money is transferred, regardless of whether the project actually succeeds in its goal). I might even have moral qualms participating in such a money-making scheme, even if I do not intentionally defraud someone.
Post by: Knight of Fools on May 09, 2012, 01:40:25 pm
An article about fraud in Kickstarter. (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/9597-Kickstarter-Proceed-with-Caution)
A comic, too. (http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/05/04)
Post by: nenjin on May 09, 2012, 02:31:37 pm
Quote from: An article about fraud in Kickstarter.
In business, when you invest in something you can lose money. Sometimes you can lose everything you put in. Investors take the risk because they will get a cut of the profits if the project is a success. But Kickstarter donors don't get a cut of the profits. They just get a copy of the game, if it survives to release. Sooner or later a Kickstarted game will fail, and the backers will get nothing. There will be outrage and bad press and other projects will need to work even harder to assure potential backers they can bring a game to market.
This is primarily my gripe. People treat Kickstarter like they're investing in a product, but real investors share in profits. Now, inevitably someone will say "people are investing in fun" which is great and all. Except these are multi-million dollar projects. So I think it's a mistake to treat Kickstarter as an investment, because it's not. It's a high-energy, feel-good pre-order with an even lower guarantee of delivery than a real pre-order.
Post by: SealyStar on May 09, 2012, 02:44:24 pm
Man or woman? Nobody knows and nobody cares.
EDIT: Okay, after watching the videos, I have figured out the idiot is firmly a man. With rather feminine hair. And so much fat that any facial nuances that otherwise identify people by gender are impossible. But seeing the shape of his head, I now question his species identity.
Anyway, yeah, for every great idea on Kickstarter there are 50 terrible ones. Such is the nature of the internet.
Post by: mainiac on May 09, 2012, 02:59:03 pm
This is primarily my gripe. People treat Kickstarter like they're investing in a product, but real investors share in profits.
This isn't necessarily a good thing. When I split a pizza with my friends do we start by raising capital so an investor can buy the pizza and sell us slices at a markup? No, we ask "who wants pizza". Kickstarter is the same principle on a larger scale. "Who wants OGRE?"
Post by: nenjin on May 09, 2012, 03:02:18 pm
Post by: Draco18s on May 09, 2012, 03:28:31 pm
This is primarily my gripe. People treat Kickstarter like they're investing in a product, but real investors share in profits.
This isn't necessarily a good thing. When I split a pizza with my friends do we start by raising capital so an investor can buy the pizza and sell us slices at a markup? No, we ask "who wants pizza". Kickstarter is the same principle on a larger scale. "Who wants OGRE?"
What he's trying to say is:
What if the pizza never arrives?
Post by: lordcooper on May 09, 2012, 03:33:24 pm
This is primarily my gripe. People treat Kickstarter like they're investing in a product, but real investors share in profits.
This isn't necessarily a good thing. When I split a pizza with my friends do we start by raising capital so an investor can buy the pizza and sell us slices at a markup? No, we ask "who wants pizza". Kickstarter is the same principle on a larger scale. "Who wants OGRE?"
What he's trying to say is:
What if the pizza never arrives?
We eat curry instead.
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 09, 2012, 03:37:05 pm
Post by: AlStar on May 09, 2012, 04:26:42 pm
This is primarily my gripe. People treat Kickstarter like they're investing in a product, but real investors share in profits.
This isn't necessarily a good thing. When I split a pizza with my friends do we start by raising capital so an investor can buy the pizza and sell us slices at a markup? No, we ask "who wants pizza". Kickstarter is the same principle on a larger scale. "Who wants OGRE?"
What he's trying to say is:
What if the pizza never arrives?
I don't think that works though - if the pizza/game/product never arrives, then it doesn't matter if you've got a stake in the product - a donor would make $0, and someone with a share would also make $0 - they're both screwed.
Its closer to... hmm... we all want pizza, so we all pitch in for a pizza oven. The person who gets the oven gives us all one pizza, then starts making more pizza and selling it to other people, making money off of it. In this case, a donor gets a pizza for their cash, while an invesor would get a pizza, then a return on their investment in the oven. Now, are people satisfied? I think it depends on how much we paid for that oven.
If I'm a donor throwing in $100, and all I get is a small cheese pizza, I'm going to be pissed. If all it cost me was $5, and I get a large pizza with all the toppings, I've gotten a deal.
For Investors, it doesn't necessarily work that way - they might be willing to pay $100 for a small cheese pizza, if they know they'll have a steady revenue stream.
Another point - how much of a profit share are you really going to get? For people investing the minimum (like, say, for one of the big computer games in development) They're throwing $10 or $15 towards a multi-million dollar project - they've got, maybe, a 0.001% stake in the product - you're never going to see anything worthwhile back from that.
Post by: mainiac on May 09, 2012, 04:57:30 pm
Post by: nenjin on May 09, 2012, 04:58:47 pm
If you are a donor throwing $100 at a small pizza then you really didn't do your research.
And yet "$100 to a small pizza" accurately describes the aspirations of many Kickstarter games.
Post by: PTTG?? on May 09, 2012, 06:00:27 pm
Even things like the OGRE campaign have a valid role- if the project is successful, that' very cheap market research right there.
Post by: Sowelu on May 09, 2012, 06:04:39 pm
If you are a donor throwing $100 at a small pizza then you really didn't do your research.Or you take 'donor' seriously, and believe firmly in the concept of pizzas and wish for them to exist.
Post by: alway on May 09, 2012, 06:24:01 pm
I think this hits the nail on the head. Kickstarter is not a preorder system, it is not a system in which you are buying anything. It is a system in which you browse for interesting projects, and if you see one that makes you scream "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY" simply because of how much you want the project to happen, then you give them money. If you expect it to be worth the money for any other reason than for the project to simply exist, you are going to be disappointed, because that is not the purpose of Kickstarter.If you are a donor throwing $100 at a small pizza then you really didn't do your research.Or you take 'donor' seriously, and believe firmly in the concept of pizzas and wish for them to exist.
Post by: Sowelu on May 09, 2012, 06:30:12 pm
I never thought about it that way, but Kickstarter is the very incarnation of "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY". It is the means by which, at long last, you can throw wads of cash at your screen and have it do something.
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 09, 2012, 06:42:43 pm
and have it do something.Sometimes.
Post by: Grakelin on May 09, 2012, 07:02:24 pm
http://www.sjgames.com/general/stakeholders/
Oh shit, wow, the last time I peaked at that they had 2010 up, now they have 2011. Damn these last two ears have been great for Steve Jackson games. I guess getting Muchin into Target was quite the benefit. Or maybe I'm horribly butchering my millions here. XD
Err, I'm not sure what you're saying here. Getting Munchkin into Target actually is a huge benefit because now teens all over the US are going to buy it when they ordinarily wouldn't. There's no financial reporting there, either. The company is, however, glowing about their large gross.
Let's all stop pretending Steve Jackson Games is an impoverished business. It is quite successful.
I was looking for something more like this (http://investor.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/2011-12-Press-statement.pdf), incidentally, which is an accurate report of a game company's financial standing.
Post by: nenjin on May 09, 2012, 07:30:50 pm
I think this hits the nail on the head. Kickstarter is not a preorder system, it is not a system in which you are buying anything. It is a system in which you browse for interesting projects, and if you see one that makes you scream "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY" simply because of how much you want the project to happen, then you give them money. If you expect it to be worth the money for any other reason than for the project to simply exist, you are going to be disappointed, because that is not the purpose of Kickstarter.If you are a donor throwing $100 at a small pizza then you really didn't do your research.Or you take 'donor' seriously, and believe firmly in the concept of pizzas and wish for them to exist.
And now the "press the button to make the fanbase gush money" has been realized. So far, we're liking what we see and the people we're seeing it from. But inherent in the whole "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY" thing is saying you don't simply don't care, give it now. That's the kind of trust that gets abused even by people you don't fault for it. I mean, consider whose mouth the meme comes from.
We've built up this whole culture of Caveat Emptor when it comes to buying from AAA industries....and now we've flopped in the complete opposite direction with Kickstarter, where we say "Eh, even if I have reservations, I know what I'm buying going in, it will be what it will be." Can that sort of mentality really last, or survive when professional vultures take advantage of it?
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 09, 2012, 07:44:24 pm
Post by: Karlito on May 09, 2012, 07:48:44 pm
Post by: alway on May 09, 2012, 11:50:41 pm
I guess I sort of like that Kickstarter makes it difficult to find projects through their website for that reason. You basically need to garner the attention of outside internet communities (or already have your own) to successfully fund a large project, which seems to have been a good filter for shady projects.This. I find the terrible ones by browsing their website; I find the good ones by browsing RockPaperShotgun. All the terrible projects jumbled in with an occasional good one serve to reinforce a sort of awareness of the limitations of kickstarter projects.
Post by: SealyStar on May 10, 2012, 03:21:10 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on May 11, 2012, 11:01:42 am
The biggest problem with Kickstarter is that you don't have to (though you can) put in any terms stating that you legally owe the donor anything, AFAIK. Which means anything could be a huge-ass scam, where the "developers" could run off to their Swiss account...I'm not really sure if there could be such language when you put up a project though.
Sometimes shit happens, and you cannot deliver.
Lets take the HD movie glasses. Lets say the chinese factory whom they were going to manufacture with is shutdown, after they had paid them (this is just for the sake of argument). There goes the production money.
Or lets say, their RD lab space suffers a fire? Now they might have their schematics still, but they've lost valuable time and money setting up the RD lab. Might be to expensive get it going again.
----
I realize, that you want the language to prevent scammers, but, and maybe this naive of me, I think cases my illustrative examples are going to be more common then scammers.
Post by: Servant Corps on May 11, 2012, 11:42:59 am
I realize, that you want the language to prevent scammers, but, and maybe this naive of me, I think cases my illustrative examples are going to be more common then scammers.It might. But you can never be certain whether a project genuinely failed or whether it is a scam, and the destruction of that trust could be damaging. And keep in mind, it's their money. Failures can be accepted if your money wasn't on the line and you didn't sacrifice greatly for it.
Further, there's a third reason for failure that you didn't account for: incompetence. Since anyone can do a Kickstarter, there's no quality control, and a person may just not be very good at fulfilling his promises. It's not intentionally deceptive, which is why it doesn't count as a scam for me.
---
Speaking of scams, I took a look back at the ZionEyez and found these two comments:
Quote from: David Elliot, April 25
@David, I believe that it was Amazon that called it a "donation", which in itself probably warrants some investigation. However, the main reason we can't get help from Amazon or our credit card companies is that they consider the purchase to have occurred on July 31, 2011, and they all have limits for how long you can wait to make a claim.
I'm not really sure that the "24-30 weeks from now" constitutes a guarantee, but a judge would be more likely to be swayed by that after they didn't make their Winter 2011 date.
Quote from: ozymandias, April 25
That's exactly the problem I ran into with my bank -- they stated that since too much time had passed, I was unable to contest the charges. Originally the restriction was put into place to protect the vendors for frivolous charge-backs. In this case, that was exploited by the vendors -- as they did not even have the original ship-date until after we could no longer contest with the banks. Quite the scam. I suggest that everyone file with the Better Business Bureau. While Zion Eyez (or Lies, or whatever they want to be called these days) is not a member, it is still a public registry of the complaints against this company.
https://alaskaoregonwesternwashington.app.bbb.org
ZionEyez's address is:
ZionEyez
10015 Lakecity Way NE #350
Seattle, WA 98125
There is still no guarantee that ZionEyez is a scam, but if it is, then it's illustrative for how one could pull this scam off in the future. Keep the deadline so far away that there will be no more refunds.
Post by: Wayward Device on May 11, 2012, 07:09:34 pm
Post by: zombie urist on May 11, 2012, 07:15:39 pm
Post by: penguinofhonor on May 11, 2012, 07:18:12 pm
Post by: Wayward Device on May 11, 2012, 07:35:59 pm
Post by: alway on May 11, 2012, 07:39:17 pm
Post by: SealyStar on May 11, 2012, 07:44:22 pm
Ok, just browsing the TOS I can't find anything banning the creation of a mercenary for for the purpose of annexing Vatican City. They've only got 500 Swiss Guards and a ton of lootz. I reckon we could put together a decent expeditionary force for less than ten mil. We just need a good quality video about why we care so much about this project.
I hope there are no Catholics here who can't take a joke, but... I think this is a good idea. Explain that we're not anti-religious or anti-Catholic, just that we want the loot, and that the Vatican isn't protecting it well, so it's practically being offered to us. We'll give donators swag like "I helped sack the Vatican" t-shirts, shares of the loot ($10000 gets you an original-copy medieval manuscript!), autographed chalices, and framed pictures of the mercenaries in action, and the top three donators will be appointed as cardinals.
Post by: alway on May 11, 2012, 07:47:38 pm
This is the best plan ever.Ok, just browsing the TOS I can't find anything banning the creation of a mercenary for for the purpose of annexing Vatican City. They've only got 500 Swiss Guards and a ton of lootz. I reckon we could put together a decent expeditionary force for less than ten mil. We just need a good quality video about why we care so much about this project.
I hope there are no Catholics here who can't take a joke, but... I think this is a good idea. Explain that we're not anti-religious or anti-Catholic, just that we want the loot, and that the Vatican isn't protecting it well, so it's practically being offered to us. We'll give donators swag like "I helped sack the Vatican" t-shirts, shares of the loot ($10000 gets you an original-copy medieval manuscript!), autographed chalices, and framed pictures of the mercenaries in action, and the top three donators will be appointed as cardinals.
Post by: nenjin on May 11, 2012, 07:55:23 pm
As I have previously stated, they owe you nothing. It is a donation, not a preorder, not a purchase order, a donation. Anyone who donates to Kickstarter and expects to get something in return is doing it wrong. You are donating to help get a project off the ground, not to get your share of the project's pie.
Eh, when the project is funded, you should expect to get a product. Quality of said product will vary, but you're getting one, otherwise the entire rewards concept wouldn't work.
Kickstarter isn't the make-a-wish foundation, and it stopped being that way when professionals started raking in serious money. When you're offering pre-orders for a game on funding, that is a business arrangement. The only practical difference is that the ToS prevents people from suing for false advertising or anything else, under the term "donation." Remember other creative uses of the ToS agreements, like the ones that turned video games from products you own into products you've been licensed to use?
Imagine if the American Way or some other charity was like "give us money. But it's not guaranteed to turn into anything you'd want!"
In an ideal world, yes, Kickstarter would be just like the Make-a-Wish foundation for developers and entrepreneurs. But in practice, it's re-branding capital ventures as charity to avoid all the constraints AND protections that are normally in place.
On the storming of the Vatican, it would be really amusing to see people rush in with swords and such, and straight into the Swiss Guard armed with the latest military hardware.
Post by: Wayward Device on May 11, 2012, 07:56:37 pm
Post by: Servant Corps on May 11, 2012, 08:05:36 pm
Post by: SealyStar on May 11, 2012, 08:52:58 pm
On the storming of the Vatican, it would be really amusing to see people rush in with swords and such, and straight into the Swiss Guard armed with the latest military hardware.
No, no, no. The Swiss Guard's "new military hardware" consists of MP5s and SIG SG 550s. Our mercenaries would have body armor, M4s, powerful sniper rifles, M67 grenades, and maybe an armored car.
What gave you this idea of "charging in with swords"?
Post by: lordcooper on May 11, 2012, 08:54:38 pm
Post by: Aklyon on May 11, 2012, 09:04:17 pm
Swords > guns. Have you guys never played a JRPG?But what about Religious JRPGs?
Post by: nenjin on May 11, 2012, 09:10:18 pm
Quote
What gave you this idea of "charging in with swords"?
Swords > guns. Have you guys never played a JRPG?
Swords > guns. Have you guys never played a JRPG?But what about Religious JRPGs?
Given this population, I think a charge with medieval weapons is more than likely.
Post by: SealyStar on May 11, 2012, 09:18:27 pm
QuoteWhat gave you this idea of "charging in with swords"?Swords > guns. Have you guys never played a JRPG?Swords > guns. Have you guys never played a JRPG?But what about Religious JRPGs?
Given this population, I think a charge with medieval weapons is more than likely.
In terms of "fun"? Yes. In terms of what would actually beat the Swiss Guard? No.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 11, 2012, 09:37:35 pm
Post by: blackmagechill on May 11, 2012, 09:47:03 pm
Post by: Aklyon on May 11, 2012, 09:51:41 pm
We where not planning to send in troops with that setup, its for our general. Basically I want you to drive the tank closer so I can hit them with my sword.
Spoiler: Relevant (click to show/hide)
Post by: nenjin on May 11, 2012, 11:05:09 pm
Unless someone totally starts a Kickstarter for invading Vatican City.
Post by: alway on May 12, 2012, 07:58:27 am
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/drmikey/the-indie-console?ref=category "The Indie Console!" If that name has you thinking "WTF is that supposed to mean," you aren't alone. Reading through the comments section shows the guy who wants to do the project doesn't have a clue either.
Paintball tanks. Aside from being a god-mode which makes the game terrible for anyone else playing, all I can think of is what would happen when you accidentally drove over someone taking cover in a bush. Squish.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/aaronpatterson/the-lovetanks-kit?ref=category
Lovetanks; trivialize and gamify your relationships today!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1024145959/ultimate-computer-and-gaming-system?ref=category
"Ultimate Computer & Gaming System." An oil-cooled system they will build for you. Assuming of course you donated above $2500; otherwise, you get at most a t-shirt, mug, and photo of them. Also of note: aside from the oil-cooling, the actual system specs are mediocre at best; and absolutely terrible for $2500. This one is a bit strange; it isn't even a project, just an attempt to use Kickstarter as a marketing platform or something. It's quite bizarre.
Post by: lordcooper on May 12, 2012, 08:36:40 am
Post by: alway on May 12, 2012, 08:46:46 am
We already have paintball tanks. I've been in one.Hrm... yes... it seems I should have googled that one first.
Post by: Strange guy on May 12, 2012, 09:11:04 am
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/drmikey/the-indie-console?ref=category "The Indie Console!" If that name has you thinking "WTF is that supposed to mean," you aren't alone. Reading through the comments section shows the guy who wants to do the project doesn't have a clue either.
Because apparently $70,000 and 1 guy whose made some obscure but award winning games is enough to make not just a competitive desura/steam-like but also hardware which appears to be just a PC after you've connected it to a TV and plugged in a controller, but he somehow thinks it's different from that? Also from the first ($3) reward it appears he's charging money for the software. He talks about steam not approving every indie game, but desura seems like it accepts most things and it supports mods on top. You can sort of see some good ideas he's passionate about, but I don't think it could be done well enough to justify it's existence by anything that's not fairly big and experienced- at the very least you need lots of games on board and that could be hard to do.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sonnylopez/mitank-paintball-tanks-by-rti?ref=category
Paintball tanks. Aside from being a god-mode which makes the game terrible for anyone else playing, all I can think of is what would happen when you accidentally drove over someone taking cover in a bush. Squish.
I don't think you are giving the project enough credit, the idea is so the wheelchair bound can experience paintball. Because apparently the best way to help those less fortunate then yourself is to put $22,000 into two tanks. It's definitely not a good idea, but they have good intentions.
EDIT: Just had a look at the 'ultimate computer' concept art for the finished product. It looks like someone who just learned how to use some crummy freeware 3D modeller would make. And they put their name on it because of course people would want to steal that brilliant design.
Post by: Sensei on May 12, 2012, 12:02:57 pm
ORIGINAL CHARACTER, DO NOT STEAL
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 12, 2012, 12:07:12 pm
Post by: nenjin on May 12, 2012, 01:07:13 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on May 12, 2012, 06:10:00 pm
Post by: alway on May 12, 2012, 06:17:22 pm
ITS JUST MINERAL OIL. Get the fuck over yourself.Ah, but you see, it's very kool mineral oil. Also apparently very expensive mineral oil. >_>
Post by: SirAaronIII on May 12, 2012, 08:14:45 pm
Post by: Scelly9 on May 12, 2012, 09:02:26 pm
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 12, 2012, 10:00:00 pm
Post by: miauw62 on May 13, 2012, 07:08:49 am
But i'm the most awesome.
I suck all the warmth from my computer
WITH MY MOUTH!
Then my lungs recycle it.
Post by: Servant Corps on May 13, 2012, 01:16:48 pm
It seems failures are well-documented, yet they do not deter future Kickstarter projects.
EDIT: Extra zero removed.
Post by: SirAaronIII on May 13, 2012, 01:19:07 pm
Post by: Soralin on May 13, 2012, 03:00:02 pm
LiquidFixed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKN4VMOenNM :)NitrogenHelium cooled computers are the coolest.
Post by: Draco18s on May 13, 2012, 04:18:24 pm
ITS JUST MINERAL OIL. Get the fuck over yourself.Ah, but you see, it's very kool mineral oil. Also apparently very expensive mineral oil. >_>
Having had a friend who built a mineral oil cooled PC (http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php), mineral oil is not cheap to get in quantity, and you need an astounding twelve gallons. The only way to get that much is to order in bulk through a veterinary supply company (mineral oil being used as a laxative, and if you want to give to to horses...you need a lot).
The kit that site offers is $600 and does not include a computer.
Post by: JoshuaFH on May 13, 2012, 05:21:20 pm
Post by: Aklyon on May 13, 2012, 05:36:52 pm
Quote from: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ExplosiveOverclocking
The folks over at Project E.U.N.U.C.H. and their remarkable accomplishment in accidentally overclocking a 33MHz 486 chip to 247MHz. Such things happen when tequila, vodka, and other hard liquors are used as a coolant for both computers and humans at the same time. Yes, it melted down quite spectacularly after boiling off the entirety of the alcohol (to the dismay of the testers) in approximately three minutes.
Post by: JoshuaFH on May 13, 2012, 05:50:01 pm
Post by: Scelly9 on May 13, 2012, 06:15:06 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on May 13, 2012, 06:26:16 pm
Post by: Aklyon on May 13, 2012, 06:49:12 pm
Post by: Hubris Incalculable on May 13, 2012, 11:59:39 pm
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/kickstarter.png)
Post by: JoshuaFH on May 14, 2012, 12:01:16 am
Post by: penguinofhonor on May 14, 2012, 12:53:30 am
Post by: Draco18s on May 14, 2012, 08:06:32 am
mineral oil cooled PC (http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php)QuoteDood! Put fishez in ur tank!!!1
Answer: No. They would die.
suddenly, this reaches B12...
Actually, I contacted a guy at Puget Systems pondering the question of taking the mineral oil PC and immersing that in a water filled tank and having fish in that.
He didn't know for sure, but we speculated that it'd probably be ok for tropical fish, as well as provide some additional cooling for the PC.
Post by: miauw62 on May 14, 2012, 12:18:04 pm
*jumps on you while sleeping* "MEEEOOOOOOOWWW" *scratches you*
Post by: Draco18s on May 14, 2012, 12:33:06 pm
*jumps on you while sleeping* "MEEEOOOOOOOWWW" *scratches you*
Already have cats that do this. Now you know why I close my door at night. :)
Post by: Scelly9 on May 14, 2012, 12:43:24 pm
Post by: Karlito on May 14, 2012, 01:00:07 pm
EDIT: Password for the Gallery is "YourWorld!"
Post by: nenjin on May 14, 2012, 01:03:24 pm
Going to have to keep tabs on this, just see if he finally learns something or if the fail deepens further.
edit
His concept gallery is password protected. L. O. L.
Post by: miauw62 on May 14, 2012, 01:03:48 pm
Our cat in a nutshell:
Sleep - Eat - Go outside - Come inside - Eat - Go outside - Come inside - Eat - Sleep - Repeat
Post by: Karlito on May 14, 2012, 01:06:54 pm
His concept gallery is password protected. L. O. L.
The password is "YourWorld!" He posted it on his public forum. Which I read for some reason.
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on May 14, 2012, 01:15:40 pm
Post by: nenjin on May 14, 2012, 01:19:00 pm
Why is this thread suddenly filled with cats?His concept gallery is password protected. L. O. L.
The password is "YourWorld!" He posted it on his public forum. Which I read for some reason.
That's certainly an efficient way to get people to see your media.
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on May 14, 2012, 01:25:36 pm
Say what you will about everything else, but the humanoid anglerfish (angler_concept in the above provided link) is pretty damn cool as far as "take an animal and give it humanoid appearance" stuff goes.yeah, seems he did get an half decent artist to work for him. let's hope this job doesnt cause irreparable damage to this guy's portfolio
Post by: anzki4 on May 14, 2012, 01:34:07 pm
He is also speculating that Kickstarter purposely sabotaged YourWorld because Blizzard - being really worried because WoW is getting tough competition - bribed them or something. (Link to the thread. (http://yourworld.yourworldinc.com/user/Discussion.aspx?id=327565))
Got to admit this guy is really entertaining :P
Post by: nenjin on May 14, 2012, 01:35:12 pm
"It's a goddamn conspiracy, that's what this is! And you're all in on it!"
Post by: lordcooper on May 14, 2012, 02:22:26 pm
Quote
how do I click on the link?
He sure has some intelligent supporters.
Post by: Sowelu on May 14, 2012, 02:32:33 pm
/derail
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 14, 2012, 02:34:00 pm
Our cat has discovered that the most efficient way to get fed in the morning is to bite my fiancee until she makes me do it. Biting me doesn't work, I just push and/or throw the cat in response.Mine tried this once and ended up on the floor across the room.
/derail
Post by: nenjin on May 14, 2012, 02:45:38 pm
(Meow)
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on May 14, 2012, 02:47:27 pm
Post by: nenjin on May 14, 2012, 02:49:46 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on May 14, 2012, 04:12:48 pm
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 14, 2012, 04:14:35 pm
Post by: Strange guy on May 14, 2012, 06:46:02 pm
Tineye didn't find any results for the pictures, so I guess he actually is getting someone to draw this stuff for him.
The 'dragongirl' has goats legs, something commonly associated with satan and daemons, not dragons. If you hadn't already checked if they original pictures I'd say the obvious reason would be stealing art and not being smart enough to realise what they are stealing, but if it isn't stolen I wonder how you would make that mistake.
Post by: Skyrunner on May 14, 2012, 06:49:25 pm
Tineye didn't find any results for the pictures, so I guess he actually is getting someone to draw this stuff for him.
The 'dragongirl' has goats legs, something commonly associated with satan and daemons, not dragons. If you hadn't already checked if they original pictures I'd say the obvious reason would be stealing art and not being smart enough to realise what they are stealing, but if it isn't stolen I wonder how you would make that mistake.
I thought it was actually just a succubus...
Post by: Strange guy on May 14, 2012, 06:59:30 pm
I thought it was actually just a succubus...
The name of the picture is 'dragongirl_concept_3', but yeah it's pretty obviously some type of daemons with a succubus being a likely candidate.
Also in the forum thread linked apparently he held hope the kickstarter could succeed (though at least he said he doubted it- but still should have lost hope a long time ago), and believes he can make it in 3 months using the $25K he's apparently raised (mostly his own money I guess).
Also I know this has already been mentioned, but here's a funny quote.
"It could have been at the bequest of a larger game company. I won't name it, but it sure can make you feel like you are left out in a blizzard."
Master of subtlety (and self delusion) at work here.
In fact just go and read that entire linked thread now. It's a goldmine, it really is.
Post by: Megaman on May 14, 2012, 07:03:07 pm
Post by: nenjin on May 14, 2012, 07:08:13 pm
At least he's still delivering on the entertainment, well after his Kickstarter ended.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 14, 2012, 07:14:58 pm
Post by: Lord Dullard on May 14, 2012, 07:16:24 pm
Post by: zombie urist on May 14, 2012, 07:27:38 pm
Post by: Karlito on May 14, 2012, 08:16:57 pm
Tineye didn't find any results for the pictures, so I guess he actually is getting someone to draw this stuff for him.
The 'dragongirl' has goats legs, something commonly associated with satan and daemons, not dragons. If you hadn't already checked if they original pictures I'd say the obvious reason would be stealing art and not being smart enough to realise what they are stealing, but if it isn't stolen I wonder how you would make that mistake.
It's still possible that the artwork is stolen from somewhere, Tineye hasn't crawled every single image on the internet. But yeah, that's totally some kind of succubus.
Post by: kaijyuu on May 14, 2012, 08:18:05 pm
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 14, 2012, 08:20:10 pm
A dragon with hooves is potentially interesting, though...And that if anything makes me think it was accidental or stolen.
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on May 14, 2012, 08:29:19 pm
Post by: SirAaronIII on May 14, 2012, 09:57:53 pm
Post by: Nulzilcho on May 14, 2012, 10:44:56 pm
Its like a train wreck where they keep sending more trains down the same line. So horribly horribly wrong yet so amazing to watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vouI55GAx8
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 14, 2012, 10:53:49 pm
Post by: alway on May 15, 2012, 07:31:33 am
Ugh, just what we need, more gamification bullshit. *grumbles about excessive extrinsic motivation destroying intrinsic motivation*
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/438629238/social-yoga-game-introduction-to-us-audience?ref=category
Yoga: the facebook game. Seriously, wtf?
Post by: Draco18s on May 15, 2012, 07:42:53 am
EDIT2:Quote from: Bunky BartlettTo all the haters out there. Keep up he good work. You have been fun to play with. It will be great when the game comes out and you all are playing it and biting your tongue the entire time. Have fun.:'(
his idiocy! make it stop!
Link to the thread where he posted that.
I'm taking the bait!
Post by: nenjin on May 15, 2012, 08:31:02 am
I think that might be the pinnacle of his delusions.
Post by: Megaman on May 15, 2012, 09:25:50 am
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on May 15, 2012, 09:33:37 am
You'd think he would be smart enough to name it something other than 'my forum'.
"Your world, my forum". I think it fits.
Post by: Draco18s on May 15, 2012, 10:36:38 am
besides, it seems there are only 5 people on his forum, 1 person who seems to be trolling him by pretending to be enthusiastic, Bunky himself, and 3 people that seem to have only marginally more intelligence than him.
Doesn't mean I can't increase his population by 20% and troll him some more.
I think it's funny that he thinks there won't be inflation ("no one would pay for an item with an inflated price" isn't relevant, because the price is inflated because people are willing to pay that price) as well as sell in-game currency "so cheap no one would bother gold-farming." Lolwut?
Post by: nenjin on May 15, 2012, 10:37:41 am
Post by: Draco18s on May 15, 2012, 11:10:33 am
in other news, the population of my forum has increased by 20%, and trolling has doubled!
Yup!
At least, as soon as the registration email comes through.
Post by: Aklyon on May 15, 2012, 11:53:09 am
Post by: Draco18s on May 15, 2012, 11:59:57 am
I won't be too surprised if he made it so only comments he approves of get through, because he can't stand criticism.
Ahh, manual approval. ;)
Post by: alway on May 15, 2012, 12:17:10 pm
Turns out that site doesn't exist. :P
Post by: JanusTwoface on May 15, 2012, 12:20:20 pm
Of course then he could just change it and then you're left with a pretty-much useless domain name. It's not like anyone has actually purchased the gear with the wrong domain on it already. (Or at least that's what I'm going to assume for sanity's sake)
Post by: Lord Dullard on May 15, 2012, 12:51:59 pm
Post by: Draco18s on May 15, 2012, 12:54:52 pm
I won't be too surprised if he made it so only comments he approves of get through, because he can't stand criticism.
Ahh, manual approval. ;)
I was denied.
Trying again with a different pseudonym. I will admit that "Silverbutt (https://d.facdn.net/art/draco18s/1277842097.draco18s_tojo_acid_badge.jpg)"* was a little rash.
*Probably my most favoritest conbadge ever. My only gripe is that it was fairly large. I'll see if I can get Tojo to print out another one at a more standard size.
Edit:
Ok, he didn't like the second one either. Hmm...
PROXY TIEM!
Post by: lordcooper on May 15, 2012, 04:05:26 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 15, 2012, 04:08:08 pm
Someone has already bought telgara.com via proxy.If they hadn't, I was going to.
Post by: nenjin on May 15, 2012, 04:35:12 pm
Post by: Sowelu on May 15, 2012, 06:48:20 pm
Post by: SirAaronIII on May 15, 2012, 06:57:10 pm
Quote
How could anyone not support this?!
- Fuzzy pets follow you around
Post by: JanusTwoface on May 15, 2012, 07:06:58 pm
You know, bad-faith registrations like that are technically illegal.Somehow I doubt it. Interesting if they actually are. Source?
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on May 15, 2012, 08:19:10 pm
Post by: lordcooper on May 15, 2012, 08:20:11 pm
Someone has already bought telgara.com via proxy.If they hadn't, I was going to.
Same, that's why I checked.
Post by: Lord Dullard on May 15, 2012, 08:25:47 pm
You know, bad-faith registrations like that are technically illegal.
No, seriously doubt this. Otherwise domain 'squatters' wouldn't exist.
Post by: Sensei on May 15, 2012, 08:45:03 pm
Post by: Sowelu on May 15, 2012, 09:18:24 pm
Though it does come down to trademarks for the most part, and he probably doesn't have one, because he's a moron... Like I said, it's a "bad faith" thing. Multiple people can have legitimate claims to a name, but if you can show that you violated a trademark intentionally and in bad faith, then you have no right to that domain.
Post by: Sensei on May 15, 2012, 10:11:52 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on May 15, 2012, 11:12:41 pm
For this in particular, its trademark that matter. Trademark and market recognition, and market confusion.
Post by: Draco18s on May 15, 2012, 11:38:51 pm
Apparently "DrakeBluehorns" is legit.
THE BLUEHORNS ARMY MARCHES AT DAWN!
Er, ok, after breakfast.
Post by: Karlito on May 15, 2012, 11:40:42 pm
Quote from: Bunky
The dragon girl is a mix of human, elf, dragon, and goat. :-) Just to give a taste of what you will be able to create.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 15, 2012, 11:46:18 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on May 16, 2012, 12:16:28 am
Quote from: Bunky
The dragon girl is a mix of human, elf, dragon, and goat. :-) Just to give a taste of what you will be able to create.And the taste is FOUL. FOUL.
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on May 16, 2012, 12:20:25 am
I don't blame him, he is just doing whats been "working" so well for him so far. Taking other ideas the good, the bad, and the awesome and then mashing them together in the same way a medieval person would make hotdogs.it includes bits of actual dog meat
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 16, 2012, 12:51:50 am
Post by: SirAaronIII on May 16, 2012, 01:12:57 am
Better than having a male with boobs though. I remember seeing this animated movie about a cow who partied hard in the barnyard or something, and he had an udder. I couldn't stop looking at the udder. Why did he have an udder.
Post by: MrWiggles on May 16, 2012, 01:32:20 am
It could have been replaced with a female lion... nah, too sensible.
Better than having a male with boobs though. I remember seeing this animated movie about a cow who partied hard in the barnyard or something, and he had an udder. I couldn't stop looking at the udder. Why did he have an udder.
The thing that worries about a movie, where barnyard animals are sapient, walk on two legs and lead secret lives and can operate motor cycles is that the male cows (yes male cows, not bulls) have udders? oO
Post by: mattie2009 on May 16, 2012, 01:35:17 am
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mrincorvia/turn-homework-into-a-game-with-lesson-adventure?ref=category (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mrincorvia/turn-homework-into-a-game-with-lesson-adventure?ref=category)Gamification isn't a bad thing.
Ugh, just what we need, more gamification bullshit. *grumbles about excessive extrinsic motivation destroying intrinsic motivation*
It's just that people see it as a buzzword, hop on the wagon and then act surprised when it doesn't actually go anywhere.
or fumble the execution of it so badly that they end up putting a bullet through their nose.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/438629238/social-yoga-game-introduction-to-us-audience?ref=category (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/438629238/social-yoga-game-introduction-to-us-audience?ref=category)Aaaaand here is where I give up.
Yoga: the facebook game. Seriously, wtf?
Later folks, call me back in when the stupid has stopped.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 16, 2012, 01:42:40 am
Post by: Dutchling on May 16, 2012, 02:03:13 am
FORUM MEMBERSHIP APPROVED."Deutschling" is legit too.
Apparently "DrakeBluehorns" is legit.
THE BLUEHORNS ARMY MARCHES AT DAWN!
Er, ok, after breakfast.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 16, 2012, 02:24:13 am
Post by: Dutchling on May 16, 2012, 02:41:14 am
Post by: MarcAFK on May 16, 2012, 03:06:18 am
I don't blame him, he is just doing whats been "working" so well for him so far. Taking other ideas the good, the bad, and the awesome and then mashing them together in the same way a medieval person would make hotdogs.it includes bits of actual dog meat
You know this is exactly what dwarves do, except with lots of mincing.Quote from: BunkyThe dragon girl is a mix of human, elf, dragon, and goat. :-) Just to give a taste of what you will be able to create.And the taste is FOUL. FOUL.
Post by: miauw62 on May 16, 2012, 06:34:34 am
Later folks, call me back in when the stupid has stopped.So we wake you up when the universe has ended?
Post by: Strange guy on May 16, 2012, 07:09:01 am
Quote
In addition to what was said on the video's, they will give you quests to free them from their pimps, go after someone who did them wrong, etc.
Hookerbot quest givers. I'm so glad someone suggested hookerbots and that's now become an important feature.
Also I like they are still pretending that it's not just a succubus. Does anyone really believe the example he picked for the race combining would coincidently end up resembling common daemonic traits?
Also there appears to be more talk about space battles. He's not abandoned increasing technology levels, despite it already being already overambitious.
Quote
Entertainer – This is where the over 18 content comes into play. There will be Gentleman and Lady Clubs in the main cities where you can dance for tips. See Adult content section for more information.
Oh dear...
Post by: Draco18s on May 16, 2012, 07:51:54 am
It could have been replaced with a female lion... nah, too sensible.
Groin nipples!
Groin nipples on anthro-animals are fun.
Post by: Draco18s on May 16, 2012, 09:08:34 am
I admit I'm being fairly constructive at this point, but I am pointing out flaws in his thinking.
Post by: Megaman on May 16, 2012, 09:33:00 am
Quote from: deutschling
will you also give tanks to abbility to heal so not only the healers can heal? i would really like to heal as a warrior or ninja.
tyty
You know, I'm pretty sure that Angel Snow dude is just a troll.
Post by: mattie2009 on May 16, 2012, 09:36:47 am
Yes. Preferably.Later folks, call me back in when the stupid has stopped.So we wake you up when the universe has ended?
Post by: Draco18s on May 16, 2012, 09:58:06 am
The Bluehorns army marches.now, how long until you are called a troll for constructive criticism?
I admit I'm being fairly constructive at this point, but I am pointing out flaws in his thinking.
Considering I've been called a troll for saying "Ah yes, I see your misunderstanding now. The game isn't terribly well explained to new users. (http://forum.kalypsomedia.com/showthread.php?tid=8453&pid=84425#pid84425)" I'd say about 15 minutes.
Post by: nenjin on May 16, 2012, 10:15:17 am
The Bluehorns army marches.now, how long until you are called a troll for constructive criticism?
I admit I'm being fairly constructive at this point, but I am pointing out flaws in his thinking.
Considering I've been called a troll for saying "Ah yes, I see your misunderstanding now. The game isn't terribly well explained to new users. (http://forum.kalypsomedia.com/showthread.php?tid=8453&pid=84425#pid84425)" I'd say about 15 minutes.
To be fair, you're expecting rationality from the publisher that thought Dungeons was well-executed.
Post by: Draco18s on May 16, 2012, 10:30:38 am
To be fair, you're expecting rationality from the publisher that thought Dungeons was well-executed.
I wasn't, actually. But I use that post as a reason to make fun of them and make them lose business.
I also got Valve to refund me for that game (and I'm nearing in on getting a refund for Orion: Dino Beatdown, as I can't play it, the game just crashes)
Post by: Draco18s on May 16, 2012, 10:44:59 am
Quote from: 'Bartlett'
That is the way of the world. The more a person is willing to pay the higher it will drive the prices. Look at sporting events in real life. When I was a kid you could go to a ball game for $6. How much is a ticket today? Why is it that way? People are willing to pay those prices. So not much can be done about that, other then limiting what they can charge. I don't think you would want that.
Lolwut?
Post by: miauw62 on May 16, 2012, 10:49:58 am
Keep up the good work draco :3
Post by: Draco18s on May 16, 2012, 11:03:28 am
yes, because inflation isn't driven by increased prices, it's caused by people willing to pay said prices.
He also plans to cap the price that a player can list a given item for in the auction house.
Post by: nenjin on May 16, 2012, 11:08:20 am
Post by: JoshuaFH on May 16, 2012, 11:38:30 am
I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt here.
Post by: nenjin on May 16, 2012, 11:49:12 am
Player housing, cosmetic upgrades, paying for skills with in-game cash, death penalties applied to your cash....all of these are effectively money sinks to remove currency from the economy on a constant basis.
Post by: Karlito on May 16, 2012, 12:15:30 pm
Post by: miauw62 on May 16, 2012, 12:21:23 pm
You know fallout 3? At some towns there is a beggar that asks you for water, if you give it to him, it just dissapears, so it could be called a money sink, but with water.
In wurm, for example, holding a deed is a money sink.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 16, 2012, 12:30:54 pm
Post by: Karlito on May 16, 2012, 12:38:14 pm
No, I went back in the thread, found some failed projects, and was able to successfully search for their pages.So, I guess there's some truth to Bartlett's claim that Kickstarter removed Your World from their search index. I at least, can't find his project using the search.maybe finished projects that didn't reach funding are removed?
Post by: nenjin on May 16, 2012, 12:42:23 pm
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 16, 2012, 12:51:10 pm
Post by: Draco18s on May 16, 2012, 12:55:21 pm
Second Life had a huge inflation issue and added some minor sinks (we're talking 1-2%) and cut out a small segment of source (again like 5%, tops).
Huh, the actual forum seems to be allergic to web proxies. I don't particularly want this manchild anywhere near my IP and I was able to proxy the setup a new account page. Anyone got a web proxy that works or any suggestions on a non-web based one that is easy to setup and get rid of that works on that forum?
Nope :\
Post by: Draco18s on May 16, 2012, 01:06:38 pm
Draco, how did you find 'Your World' on the search thingy? I actually cannot find it anywhere.
Huh, it's not showing up now.
CURIOUS.
Post by: nenjin on May 16, 2012, 01:24:06 pm
Post by: Draco18s on May 16, 2012, 04:22:29 pm
Quote from: 'Bartlett'
Your World one-on-one PVP fights are going to be a 2d fight game. Think of Street Fighter style game. Once the players have selected to fight they will be place in a 2d platform to battle it out.
What.
Post by: nenjin on May 16, 2012, 04:24:18 pm
Quote from: 'Bartlett'Your World one-on-one PVP fights are going to be a 2d fight game. Think of Street Fighter style game. Once the players have selected to fight they will be place in a 2d platform to battle it out.
What.
Still waiting for the part where he tells us the core gameplay will be a full VR sim and the equipment will ship free with your purchase.
Post by: Draco18s on May 16, 2012, 04:30:28 pm
Quote from: 'Bartlett'Your World one-on-one PVP fights are going to be a 2d fight game. Think of Street Fighter style game. Once the players have selected to fight they will be place in a 2d platform to battle it out.
What.
Still waiting for the part where he tells us the core gameplay will be a full VR sim and the equipment will ship free with your purchase.
Haha, that'd be awesome.
Post by: Leafsnail on May 16, 2012, 04:36:21 pm
Post by: nenjin on May 16, 2012, 04:37:35 pm
Post by: Servant Corps on May 17, 2012, 08:31:12 am
"Yeah, so I just need $50 to finish this computer game."Beer Guzzler (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1090516722/beer-guzzler)
Code: [Select]
3
BACKERS
$63.00
PLEDGED OF $50 GOAL
0
SECONDS TO GO
Post by: MaximumZero on May 17, 2012, 03:41:34 pm
I lol'd. ^_^"Yeah, so I just need $50 to finish this computer game."Beer Guzzler (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1090516722/beer-guzzler)Code: [Select]3
BACKERS
$63.00
PLEDGED OF $50 GOAL
0
SECONDS TO GO
Post by: nenjin on May 17, 2012, 05:55:49 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on May 17, 2012, 06:23:33 pm
Quote from: Your World/My Forum
Most companies hire gamers at about $30K a year to do the alpha testing stage. Something I actually didn't know until now. We are still talking about it. We are a long way off from alpha. Still trying to raise the funds we need.Really?? I mean... I thought even professional games testers didn't earn that much. In any case he could surely use his huge fanbase to test the game for free.
Incidentally, have you guys checked out the class list (http://yourworld.yourworldinc.com/user/Discussion.aspx?id=327078) yet? The main thing to note is they sound catastrophically boring. Basically:
- There are 5 classes.
- Each of those 5 classes have 3 "subclasses" which are described as "DPS", "Tank" or "Healer" or some combination of two of those pretty much randomly.
- After you master (it's not clear how you master something in a game with no levelcap) the three subclasses of a class you unlock the fourth subclass. Which seems to just be better at everything than the previous 3 subclasses making it a no-brainer.
- After you master all 5 classes you unlock the "Ascended Master" class. You can do everything. Yay.
- But wait, there's more! Which I don't get at all. In any case you end up with "Superior" which again lets you do everything.
And... so on. Little differentiation in the first place beyond "DPS/Tank/Healer" and every high level character would end up exactly the same at the end anyway.
Post by: kaenneth on May 17, 2012, 06:26:05 pm
Testing is not Playing.
Post by: Aklyon on May 17, 2012, 06:31:46 pm
Testing is not Playing.I don't have much experience testing games, but I know this is certainly true.
Post by: Scelly9 on May 17, 2012, 06:32:49 pm
Especially for the bigger games. Where you start the game 83 times to see if it crashes.Testing is not Playing.I don't have much experience testing games, but I know this is certainly true.
Post by: kaijyuu on May 17, 2012, 06:34:16 pm
Only problem is these projects tend to be mocked for a reason.
Post by: Leafsnail on May 17, 2012, 06:35:18 pm
I wouldn't even consider a games testing job for less than $35/hour.Sure. But it's not a very well paid job.
Testing is not Playing.
Post by: PTTG?? on May 17, 2012, 07:38:38 pm
Post by: Draco18s on May 17, 2012, 08:21:03 pm
As someone with software QA experience, can tell you that you don't want to test computer games. You really, really, don't.
"Walk into every wall, see if you can press through any small gaps we can't see. Now walk the other way. While jumping. Crouching. Crouch jumping. Now do it while drunk."
Post by: Putnam on May 18, 2012, 12:07:49 am
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 18, 2012, 12:41:01 am
Post by: SirAaronIII on May 18, 2012, 12:59:48 am
Also this is way late but I didn't like Age of Empires 3 as much as AoE2, or AoM. Maybe that developer had something to do with it?... Nah.
Post by: mattie2009 on May 18, 2012, 01:14:10 am
(http://images.dailydawdle.com/what-the-f.gif)Flarehawk used FireGestures>Down-Right-Down!
Image was saved!
It's super effective!
Alright, now that I have saved that for future chuckles, back to weeping in the corner and praying for some merciful elder god to sideswipe earth and stop the flow of terrible, awful ideas.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 18, 2012, 01:26:46 am
Actually, making people buy currency and changing prices to compete with gold farmers does sound like a kind of maybe okay plan to male money.That is not really all that good of an idea with how game economies work. You can't compete with gold farmers like that if your the ones making the money in the first place. It would be like a government printing more money so it would cost less because someone is overpricing stuff. You would end up making the money worthless and thus every item or service you can get in game for it worthless. The point of goldfarmers is to sell something for less then its actual value and make a profit because they are using some way to make it worth even less to themselves such as cheap labor or hacks. As of the current setup what they are selling against is your time in-game. When you put an actual dollar amount on it they just put their price at a number less then that.
Post by: Skyrunner on May 18, 2012, 08:16:16 pm
You have to be diligent in weeding out the farmers. And still it doesn't work well.
Post by: Aklyon on May 18, 2012, 08:25:58 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on May 18, 2012, 08:45:17 pm
Now the problem of quantum storage (ex: Maple Story, I can lug around 99999 stone blocks and still hoppity hop as fine as I can) is partially averted.
Post by: Superior_Tomato on May 20, 2012, 11:10:08 am
Seriously, he has far too much time on his hands.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on May 20, 2012, 07:13:51 pm
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on May 20, 2012, 10:23:04 pm
Post by: miauw62 on May 21, 2012, 01:20:32 pm
Thats why i am against huge simplification of the UI and gameplay, because thats when the minecraft audience comes in/yells "R1P0FF!!!1!!!!111!!!"
I dont care too much about being called a ripoff, let the 8 years old think what they want, but i DO care about a stupidification of our beloved bay12 forums.
Post by: Skyrunner on May 21, 2012, 01:50:14 pm
That's practically the reason DF is so awesome D:
But the UI being bettered can never hurt, though it's pretty fine right now.
Post by: PTTG?? on May 22, 2012, 10:18:12 am
As someone with software QA experience, can tell you that you don't want to test computer games. You really, really, don't.
"Walk into every wall, see if you can press through any small gaps we can't see. Now walk the other way. While jumping. Crouching. Crouch jumping. Now do it while drunk."
Install this on every operating system known to man. You have two days.
We'll need a progress report every hour.
Post by: mainiac on June 02, 2012, 10:12:03 am
Seems like she's pretty optimistic about how much documentary $5k will buy.
Post by: miauw62 on June 02, 2012, 10:19:26 am
Post by: Draco18s on June 02, 2012, 11:29:44 am
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1688594173/squatching-usa?ref=live
I like the rewards:
Name in credits!
And a DVD!
TWO DVDS!
AND A T-SHIRT!
Oh, and lastly, a visit from me.
Post by: Rez on June 02, 2012, 01:44:02 pm
I like.
Post by: Leafsnail on June 02, 2012, 04:01:50 pm
Lol, i love how everybody is always going 'bigfoot iz real maaaaan!' while most prints have diffrent numbers of toes and all the """"evidence"""" is inconsisent.Dude, can you not see how the changing nature of the footprints is evidence for a shapeshifting bigfoot?
Post by: MrWiggles on June 02, 2012, 09:24:41 pm
ANd this episode, I kid you not, said 'Not Seeing Bigfoot is evidence for Bigfoot.'
I mean, what the fucking fuck?
Post by: Leafsnail on June 02, 2012, 09:30:51 pm
Post by: Draco18s on June 02, 2012, 09:48:05 pm
Evidence for invisible Bigfeet.
An invisible, shape shifting, large footed, creature roaming the forest.
Yes.
That said, it is possible that bigfoot exists. All he has to do is evade hundreds of cameras year round, right? That's like impossible!
Actually, it really isn't. There's a guy who lives in the Brazilian rain forest--the last of his native tribe--and he's been spotted twice in 15 years.
http://www.wendmag.com/blog/2010/08/26/the-most-isolated-man-on-earth/
Bigfoot though I'm pretty sure is a myth.
Now skyfish. Skyfish exist. Anyone want to help raise funds (I need $10,000) to document my attempts at catching one?
Post by: MrWiggles on June 02, 2012, 09:59:52 pm
There also the fact they dont exist in the fossil record.
Post by: Draco18s on June 03, 2012, 12:00:03 am
Eh... there a lot of active, if amateur effort to find the large mammal. Thats hard to evade. Its also hard to believe one hasnt been shot dead yet, or hit by a car.
There also the fact they dont exist in the fossil record.
My point was, if there's only 1 it has a really easy time avoiding people.
There was a literal man hunt for the jungle-guy in Brazil. Organized, with helicopters, ground vehicles, and so on. IIRC, they spent two years before giving up.
Guy wears a loin cloth, hunts with a spear, and lives in a straw hut. Evades sophisticated organized search parties using modern technology.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on June 03, 2012, 12:28:22 am
Post by: kaijyuu on June 03, 2012, 12:32:40 am
The big problem with bigfoot is the lack of a footprint; he's supposed to be in the american northwest, where quite a few people live, yet no proof has been found of such a species at all.
Post by: Draco18s on June 03, 2012, 12:52:32 am
Post by: PTTG?? on June 03, 2012, 01:00:37 am
Post by: zombie urist on June 03, 2012, 01:01:28 am
Post by: SirAaronIII on June 03, 2012, 01:01:55 am
Post by: MrWiggles on June 03, 2012, 01:04:24 am
Of course there's bodies. What do you think they're keeping in Area 51?All the pink elephants.
Post by: MarcAFK on June 03, 2012, 01:07:14 am
Post by: Rez on June 03, 2012, 01:38:31 am
Post by: jester on June 03, 2012, 04:02:42 am
Don't you guys even know why it's a pentagon?
American education system isnt exactly top shelf on geometry?
Post by: MrWiggles on June 03, 2012, 05:34:16 am
Because there are five armed force branches?Don't you guys even know why it's a pentagon?
American education system isnt exactly top shelf on geometry?
Post by: mainiac on June 03, 2012, 07:24:23 am
Don't you guys even know why it's a pentagon?
American education system isnt exactly top shelf on geometry?
Thread is won.
Post by: Draco18s on June 03, 2012, 09:49:09 am
Don't you guys even know why it's a pentagon?
American education system isnt exactly top shelf on geometry?
Thread is won.
Or is it lost?
Post by: miauw62 on June 03, 2012, 09:49:50 am
Post by: Draco18s on June 03, 2012, 09:51:30 am
Well, i'm sure that its derailed.
"When Kickstarter Goes Wrong" goes wrong.
Post by: nenjin on June 03, 2012, 03:47:44 pm
/re-railed
Post by: Draco18s on June 03, 2012, 05:05:20 pm
Spend less time being clever and moar time trolling Kickstarter for brown gold!
/re-railed
Would you like to fund my expedition to capture a live skyfish?
Post by: Leafsnail on June 03, 2012, 06:10:28 pm
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pyroclasp/pyroclasp
It initially caught my attention due to a spelling error in the description ("The awakening of ultra human abilities in three young men on there journey to become saviors of the earth"), the two notable things about it are
Spoiler: 1. The amazing vagueness of the project page (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: 2. The rewards (click to show/hide)
As for the actual comic, here (http://pyroclasp.com/page_1.html) is the first page (I should note their archives are broken and there's no "first" button, so I had to click previous 11 times to get here). I've read it all and still don't really have any idea what the comic intends to be (other than a black and white comic that involves hair colour changing and descriptions of audio based jokes). I haven't really turned much of a critical eye to the comic itself, but it's a really badly done Kickstarter considering the ridiculously vague nature of the page and the weird reward scheme.
Post by: Draco18s on June 03, 2012, 06:25:16 pm
Post by: Servant Corps on June 03, 2012, 06:27:39 pm
Quote
We appreciate your support and belief in our product.
We must regretfully inform you that due to continued delays, Zeyez will be postponing the anticipated shipment date of our highly anticipated product Eyez. As a result, we are offering all of our Pre-Order customers full refunds to those customers who would rather wait to purchase Eyez when they become available. If you would like a refund, please send us your mailing address so we can send you a refund promptly.
We apologize for any inconvenience.
Best Regards,
-The Zeyez Team
If ZionEyez are finally promising refunds, I think this will defuse the steady stream of angry comments on their Kickstarter page.
Post by: Leafsnail on June 03, 2012, 06:32:30 pm
Post by: Karlito on June 03, 2012, 06:44:59 pm
Post by: Lord Dullard on June 03, 2012, 08:23:49 pm
Good grief.
Post by: Cthulhu on June 03, 2012, 08:33:03 pm
Post by: lordcooper on June 03, 2012, 08:44:28 pm
E: http://www.yourworldinc.com/ Check out the sexy sexy video. You can build a herb!
Post by: Karlito on June 03, 2012, 08:53:00 pm
Post by: SirAaronIII on June 03, 2012, 09:11:57 pm
Spoiler: Stuff I thought was funny (click to show/hide)
Post by: Fniff on June 03, 2012, 09:14:56 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on June 03, 2012, 09:16:49 pm
"Promising refunds" is quite a way off "delivering refunds", though. It's certainly a worrying turn.They've said clearly, if requested refunds will be issued.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on June 03, 2012, 09:46:56 pm
Post by: Draco18s on June 03, 2012, 09:48:29 pm
God that Your World video..... it's so bad.Actually it wasn't as bad as I was expecting, but still bad.Spoiler: Stuff I thought was funny (click to show/hide)
You forgot
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Scelly9 on June 03, 2012, 10:59:12 pm
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1428464822/kingdoms-of-mythic-might-open-for-suggestions
Good grief.
Quote
Sensual capitals.I'm a terrible person.
Strong Hooooooooooolllllllllddd.
Stat boots.
Post by: nenjin on June 04, 2012, 12:33:03 am
Post by: Gantolandon on June 04, 2012, 05:46:13 pm
Post by: Neonivek on June 04, 2012, 05:47:45 pm
Another MMORPG (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/darksolstice/dark-solstice-25d-multiplayer-online-rpg). The description is full of mediocrity and vagueness, but it's the reward section where the creators go totally apeshit. The best thing is that this isn't even going to be a Freemium game - you are supposed to pay 7$ monthly to play this magnum opus.
Ohh my goodness you HAVE to at least check it out... it looks so terrible it is hillarious.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 04, 2012, 05:53:06 pm
Another MMORPG (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/darksolstice/dark-solstice-25d-multiplayer-online-rpg). The description is full of mediocrity and vagueness, but it's the reward section where the creators go totally apeshit. The best thing is that this isn't even going to be a Freemium game - you are supposed to pay 7$ monthly to play this magnum opus.
Ohh my goodness you HAVE to at least check it out... it looks so terrible it is hillarious.
Leaving aside the fact that it looks worse than most of the already existing 2D and 2.5D MMORPGS out there, the rewards are absurd.
My favorite part from the video? The epic music spike as it changed to "Borrow from the townsfolk!".
Also Edna's Laundry.
Post by: Scelly9 on June 04, 2012, 05:55:00 pm
Wow. That is wonderful.Another MMORPG (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/darksolstice/dark-solstice-25d-multiplayer-online-rpg). The description is full of mediocrity and vagueness, but it's the reward section where the creators go totally apeshit. The best thing is that this isn't even going to be a Freemium game - you are supposed to pay 7$ monthly to play this magnum opus.
Ohh my goodness you HAVE to at least check it out... it looks so terrible it is hillarious.
Post by: Lord Dullard on June 04, 2012, 05:56:34 pm
Another MMORPG (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/darksolstice/dark-solstice-25d-multiplayer-online-rpg). The description is full of mediocrity and vagueness, but it's the reward section where the creators go totally apeshit. The best thing is that this isn't even going to be a Freemium game - you are supposed to pay 7$ monthly to play this magnum opus.
Ohh my goodness you HAVE to at least check it out... it looks so terrible it is hillarious.
Wha... 'ring doorbells to sell your wares'. Do they realize it's horrible being a door to door salesperson in real life? And if so, why did they think it would fun to do in imaginary-land?
Added:
AUGH, why did they want to make this an MMORPG? It looks like it could have done perfectly fine if they hadn't decided to do something completely bizarre. If they'd kept it single-player it looks like it would have had kind of a (clunky, but still interesting) old-school King's Quest type of charm. Instead, they completely slaughtered it by making it an MMO... why?
Post by: Neonivek on June 04, 2012, 05:57:41 pm
Another MMORPG (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/darksolstice/dark-solstice-25d-multiplayer-online-rpg). The description is full of mediocrity and vagueness, but it's the reward section where the creators go totally apeshit. The best thing is that this isn't even going to be a Freemium game - you are supposed to pay 7$ monthly to play this magnum opus.
Ohh my goodness you HAVE to at least check it out... it looks so terrible it is hillarious.
Wha... 'ring doorbells to sell your wares'. Do they realize it's horrible being a door to door salesperson in real life? And if so, why did they think it would fun to do in imaginary-land?
Yes but you KNOW it is a major aspect of the game since they stop the music JUST so you can hear that doorbell.
BEHOLD! Epic Bellringing ACTION! All yours in Dark Solstice!
Post by: Lord Dullard on June 04, 2012, 05:59:32 pm
(Well, I also want to tell them not to be silly and hope for $50 large, but...)
Post by: Neonivek on June 04, 2012, 06:04:22 pm
I kinda wanna e-mail these people and tell them 'cancel this and resubmit it as a single player game in a few months, you fools, before it's too late!'.
(Well, I also want to tell them not to be silly and hope for $50 large, but...)
But how else will they get doorbell ringing gameplay... JUUUUUST right?
You can't low budget these Doorbell ringing MMORPGs
Post by: Lord Dullard on June 04, 2012, 06:13:04 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on June 04, 2012, 06:14:22 pm
Post by: MaximumZero on June 04, 2012, 06:15:00 pm
Quote
Chris Roby is co-designer of our MMORPG (massively multiplayer online role playing game), Dark Solstice. In his role as game designer, Chris is responsible for overall storyline content, world design, and contributes to all of the gameplay created for Dark Solstice.So...thus far he has done nothing of value?
Post by: Lord Dullard on June 04, 2012, 06:16:51 pm
What I'm really concerned about is how they're going to work PvP into their doorbell system. Maybe some sort of "ding-dong ditch" mechanic?
Hell, I'd donate if PVP consisted of mounting hidden gatling guns behind my door and waiting for peddlers to come by. That would be awesome.
Post by: Neonivek on June 04, 2012, 06:17:43 pm
QuoteChris Roby is co-designer of our MMORPG (massively multiplayer online role playing game), Dark Solstice. In his role as game designer, Chris is responsible for overall storyline content, world design, and contributes to all of the gameplay created for Dark Solstice.So...thus far he has done nothing of value?
Are you kidding? this is the best Doorbell ringing MMORPG ever brought forth.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 04, 2012, 06:19:23 pm
What I'm really concerned about is how they're going to work PvP into their doorbell system. Maybe some sort of "ding-dong ditch" mechanic?
Hell, I'd donate if PVP consisted of mounting hidden gatling guns behind my door and waiting for door to door salesmen to come by. That would be awesome.
Okay, now someone needs to design an MMORPG revolving around two factions: homeowners and door-to-door salemen. It'd be PvP-centric, revolving around various tactics used by the salepeople to successfully enter the house and sell units, countered by the methods used by the homeowners to stop the attacks. If someone started making this, I would seriously consider putting money behind it, if it was well done.
Post by: Fniff on June 04, 2012, 06:20:00 pm
I think I'd just declare the world mad at that point.
Post by: Lord Dullard on June 04, 2012, 06:24:39 pm
What I'm really concerned about is how they're going to work PvP into their doorbell system. Maybe some sort of "ding-dong ditch" mechanic?
Hell, I'd donate if PVP consisted of mounting hidden gatling guns behind my door and waiting for door to door salesmen to come by. That would be awesome.
Okay, now someone needs to design an MMORPG revolving around two factions: homeowners and door-to-door salemen. It'd be PvP-centric, revolving around various tactics used by the salepeople to successfully enter the house and sell units, countered by the methods used by the homeowners to stop the attacks. If someone started making this, I would seriously consider putting money behind it, if it was well done.
"Oh, just wait for this, you scamming fucker... hahaha... oh yeah, just one step closer... NOW! *BAM BAM BAM BAM* HA HA HA! How do you like my concealed shotgun trap, you trespassing scumbag?"
Salesman: *slowly gets up* Thank you, kind sir, for that excellent demonstration... of our new product, the InvinciVest 3000!"
"NOOOO!"
Post by: Fniff on June 04, 2012, 06:26:54 pm
Post by: Draco18s on June 04, 2012, 06:29:33 pm
Post by: Neonivek on June 04, 2012, 06:32:15 pm
Don't forget the third faction: the guys who wait outside the doors to mug the salespeople, who themselves have to sell their services to the homeowners.
But there is no Door bell ringing involved in that... It is a terrible third faction!
Post by: MarcAFK on June 04, 2012, 11:36:18 pm
Post by: nenjin on June 04, 2012, 11:49:24 pm
Maybe they really do have a prototype, but if that's it......yea gods.
Post by: Sensei on June 04, 2012, 11:52:24 pm
Post by: Neonivek on June 04, 2012, 11:53:53 pm
It is like even the characters in the game are bored of BELL RINGING ACTION!
Post by: nenjin on June 04, 2012, 11:57:29 pm
Post by: Moghjubar on June 05, 2012, 12:27:57 am
Another MMORPG (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/darksolstice/dark-solstice-25d-multiplayer-online-rpg). The description is full of mediocrity and vagueness, but it's the reward section where the creators go totally apeshit. The best thing is that this isn't even going to be a Freemium game - you are supposed to pay 7$ monthly to play this magnum opus.
So basically, this is the Realm 2.0 or something. With more cheese.
Post by: SirAaronIII on June 05, 2012, 12:36:03 am
Post by: Gantolandon on June 05, 2012, 01:34:33 am
It's a shame that you can't donate above 10000$. I'd love to see how next tier rewards would look like.
Post by: MarcAFK on June 05, 2012, 01:42:40 am
Post by: Neonivek on June 05, 2012, 02:27:23 am
I actually thought their implementation of '2.5D' looked pretty good, till i saw the guy walking / fighting the rat.... WTF.
No I will admit that if they had great animation that it would have made a pretty and stylised Point and click adventure.
Post by: Gantolandon on June 05, 2012, 10:07:29 am
Of course, most of the developers doesn't seem to be interested in that one bit - they at least imply they are going to sell the game normally (sometimes with DRM included (http://.kickstarter.com/projects/stainlessgames/carmageddon-reincarnation)). Bonus points if their reward system is screwed up (like aforementioned Dark Solstice (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/darksolstice/dark-solstice-25d-multiplayer-online-rpg)) and you get the actual game or subscription only after donating them huge wads of cash.
This touches a broader topic: I find such "charity" distasteful. Is one thing to live from donations and another to use them to startup a private business. I believe there is another word to sponsoring commercial endeavors: investment. As in, someone pools his resources into someone other's venture and gets more if it becomes successful. Or, at very least, as much. With Kickstarter it's more like "Thank you for your money, here's your keychain. Now fuck off and buy it with everyone else".
Post by: nenjin on June 05, 2012, 10:43:21 am
Quote
As in, someone pools his resources into someone other's venture and gets more if it becomes successful. Or, at very least, as much. With Kickstarter it's more like "Thank you for your money, here's your keychain. Now fuck off and buy it with everyone else".
This is what KS has been since its inception. It was lost behind the glow of fuzzy, feel-good projects giving us games that we've wanted to see for years....but the instant you take away that connection or appreciation of the project, it really does come back down to investing in a no-profit-sharing enterprise.
That's why I'm not going out of my way to fund everything that I find interesting.
Post by: MorleyDev on June 05, 2012, 12:01:53 pm
Post by: Lord Dullard on June 05, 2012, 12:04:13 pm
So you don't think they should sell the product after they make it? :S What, so only the people who donate to the kickstarter should get it? Personally I view kickstarter more as a kind of extended pre-order system. Pre-pre-order, if you will. Then again I think I've "donated" to two projects via kickstarter, Wasteland 2 and Nekro.
Ditto. I was going to say, a lot of projects that I've seen have used the game as a reward (often at a discount from the eventual intended price). 'Here's your keychain, now fuck off' is inaccurate for the majority of projects.
Post by: Gantolandon on June 05, 2012, 12:35:06 pm
I would gladly (and often do) donate to a project which, after completion, is available for everyone free of charge. As in, doing something for the others. But I don't see the point of supporting private businesses without any tangible return. In the same way, I would be perfectly fine with volunteering in a soup kitchen, but I'd never work without being paid for McDonald's. That's the situation I meant with "Here's your keychain, now fuck off".
The situation, when you have to buy the game after kickstarting it, is the sign of utter disrespect from the developer. It doesn't mean that I consider it a valid return of an investment.
Edit: It appears that "reiterate" doesn't mean what I thought it does. Sorry if this sounded rude.
Post by: miauw62 on June 05, 2012, 12:39:55 pm
I can see things i viewed previously, so i can have giggles over and over again!
Post by: Draco18s on June 05, 2012, 12:42:04 pm
The situation, when you have to buy the game after kickstarting it, is the sign of utter disrespect from the developer. It doesn't mean that I consider it a valid return of an investment.
...and represents a slim minority of the projects on Kickstarter.
There are very very few projects that do not include the result of the project in any reward level, and roughly the same number have it at some ludicrous price (such as the aforementioned book, which wasn't available until the $1000 level).
None of these projects ever succeed.
Post by: Gantolandon on June 05, 2012, 01:02:09 pm
Quote
...and represents a slim minority of the projects on Kickstarter.
There are very very few projects that do not include the result of the project in any reward level, and roughly the same number have it at some ludicrous price (such as the aforementioned book, which wasn't available until the $1000 level).
I know that. The majority at least tries to respect the people who give them money. Still, I believe there is a fundamental difference between donating and "kickstarting". The first case is paying the author for his hard work. In the second case, he is paid by the people who buy his product, so I see no reason to do this before it is even made. If he needs someone to give him money, this is something that's usually called "investment".
Post by: Draco18s on June 05, 2012, 01:10:02 pm
If he needs someone to give him money, this is something that's usually called "investment".
Kickstarter is not investing. It's crowd sourcing.
Investing implies a financial return on the principle and that that money will be recouped.
Post by: Lord Dullard on June 05, 2012, 01:13:55 pm
Edit: Fix'd.
Post by: MorleyDev on June 05, 2012, 01:15:18 pm
Kickstarter is a crowd-sourcing service, and so far there isn't really a word in the english language to accurately convey "giving money of your choice to see a commercial product being finished, receiving services for this money which most likely will include that product at a reduced price compared to how much it will cost when finished".
Post by: Draco18s on June 05, 2012, 01:19:13 pm
Stuff
In unrelated news:
Awesome choice of avatar. That gambit payed off, I'm sure.
Post by: nenjin on June 05, 2012, 01:28:08 pm
Quote
Investing implies a financial return on the principle and that that money will be recouped.
Except many Kickstarters wouldn't happen without crowdfunding. That's why it's not a "pre-order system." Pre-order implies there's already a product to be had and you're just getting your purchase in early. That's NOT the theme of Kickstarter. It's not for "projects that will already succeed but just want some extra publicity and money."
The only KS projects that qualify as pre-orders are the ones run by professional developers, with their own war chests, who are going to make their game anyways. And that begs the question what they're doing on KS in the first place.
Post by: Gantolandon on June 05, 2012, 01:46:37 pm
It's the relation as abusive as the opposite. It's the abuser that changed. And with both models, the customer is screwed.
Post by: Draco18s on June 05, 2012, 02:14:35 pm
That's why it's not a "pre-order system."
I never called it a pre-order system. In fact, no one did. They compared it to a pre-order system.
Besides, it's a pre-order system that doesn't take any money up front, until it's certain that there will be a product.*
*The project failing post-kickstarter for one reason or another not withstanding.
Post by: MorleyDev on June 05, 2012, 02:17:50 pm
I like the idea, in that it's supposed to be a reverse of the way things are done normally. Instead of product getting made and sold, you're funding the creation of the product and given what you funded.
Usually money is poured in with the expectation it'd be earned back when the product is sold. Here, the opposite happens. Money is given and used to produce the final product, which is ideally and in most scenarios then given to the people who gave money. Very few people 'donate' less than enough to get the final product, and as such projects that don't offer the final product at a reasonable price don't tend to get funded and none of the people who "donated" money are charged anything.
The best analogy or closest real-world-thing I can think of is it's like buying a house in an undeveloped area. You give the money which is then used to help further fund development of the houses, and get a house out of it at the end.
Sure, it could be tightened up, better guarantees about refunds and such could be established, the system probably needs some fine-tuning. And the customer is still in some way going to be screwed some of the time. At the end of the day the one universal constant in the universe holds: shit happens.
Post by: nenjin on June 05, 2012, 02:20:41 pm
Post by: MorleyDev on June 05, 2012, 02:22:20 pm
I think your caveat is more important than the statement it was appended to. Kickstarter doesn't require squat of a final product, it just requires meeting the funding amount prior to the deadline. That's why it is in no shape or form a pre-order scheme. Having a product that is guaranteed to ship by the time the Kickstarter ends is either a happy coincidence or the result of a lot of work that was done before the project ever came to KS. And that doesn't describe the vast majority of them.
There's a reason I've only "donated" to two projects, they are two things I was willing to risk that money on seeing (and then it was like what, £10 for each project?) ^^ If people aren't going to be smart with their money and "donate" all willy-nilly, well...you know what they say about a fool and their money.
Post by: Draco18s on June 05, 2012, 02:27:35 pm
Very few people 'donate' less than enough to get the final product
Using the only numbers I have access to, 5%. Here I am including the "no reward chosen" backers as well, regardless of amount paid.*
Another 6% donated at the lowest possible tier to get the digital-only beta-copy.
4% donated enough to get the final version, but no Kickstarter bonus goodies.
13% opted to pay that extra $4.
2% donated more than was required to get the (physical) product itself.
70% donated at a level that was enough to get the product (1/3rd of which were international).
*Keith, the AI War: Fleet Command dev, was happy to throw money at us. I even offered him a copy of our game anyway and he turned it down.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on June 05, 2012, 03:21:53 pm
Post by: Sergius on June 05, 2012, 03:32:38 pm
Post by: lordcooper on June 05, 2012, 05:54:17 pm
People seem to be getting way too emotionally invested in things wot don't affect them.
Post by: nenjin on June 05, 2012, 06:03:09 pm
Post by: kaijyuu on June 05, 2012, 06:21:09 pm
(Well I suppose it could "go wrong" if the person who started the kickstarter is a scam artist. But that's pretty much it.)
Post by: nenjin on June 05, 2012, 06:25:39 pm
Post by: Servant Corps on June 05, 2012, 08:08:19 pm
But the thing is...Kickstarter is not crowdsourcing, investment, or even a charity. It's a business, and the business is the solicitation of donations. Once a project is successfully funded, Amazon Payments and Kickstarter gets their share of the "donations"* and then cut off all their connections to the project to avoid any liabilities. So if a scam does occur, Amazon and Kickstarter will then point to their TOS so that they aren't seen as accessories to the crime. The 'honor system' is ill-suited to handling real money; the temptation to cheat is just too great and there is no penalty to doing so, since Amazon Payments and Kickstarter has no incentive to crack down on cheaters.
Reform is needed, before donors lose confidence in the entire system. Implementing these reforms without turning Kickstarter into an informal Vulture Capitalist firm...that's going to be a challenge though.
Post by: Sergius on June 05, 2012, 08:17:33 pm
"Moar law" isn't always the solution, and often it's the source of many more problems.
Post by: Neonivek on June 05, 2012, 08:18:51 pm
Or... let the market handle it.
"Moar law" isn't always the solution, and often it's the source of many more problems.
Yeah you apply law when people simply cannot do otherwise (or rather when the market fails).
For example when people solicited donations in airports. The market didn't decide them to leave so the law stepped in.
Post by: Sergius on June 05, 2012, 08:27:48 pm
Or... let the market handle it.
"Moar law" isn't always the solution, and often it's the source of many more problems.
Yeah you apply law when people simply cannot do otherwise (or rather when the market fails).
For example when people solicited donations in airports. The market didn't decide them to leave so the law stepped in.
Yes, it bodes well for Kickstarter when the law decides to ban donations to projects. Mark my words, "protecting the children" will be somewhere in that law.
Post by: Servant Corps on June 05, 2012, 09:18:01 pm
Or... let the market handle it.I wasn't saying for the law to "step" in, I'm saying for the industry to self-regulate or risk losing their "customers" (the people donating money). Though I wouldn't oppose people suing Kickstarter/Amazon for monetary damages; scams are illegal after all, and Kickstarter/Amazon appear to profit from their existence.
"Moar law" isn't always the solution, and often it's the source of many more problems.
Post by: jester on June 05, 2012, 09:35:24 pm
Post by: PTTG?? on June 06, 2012, 10:36:46 am
Or... let the market handle it.
"Moar law" isn't always the solution, and often it's the source of many more problems.
Which is why Somalia is the safest, most prosperous country on earth.
Post by: Draco18s on June 06, 2012, 10:40:36 am
Or... let the market handle it.
"Moar law" isn't always the solution, and often it's the source of many more problems.
Which is why Somalia is the safest, most prosperous country on earth.
Hyperbolic Example (http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman). Also a Black/white Fallacy (http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white)
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on June 06, 2012, 11:31:28 am
I say let the internet hate machine deal with anybody who escapes the law.Just going to say I like this answer a lot. Have you seen what the internet has done to some people? My goodness I almost would feel bad about setting that kind of abuse on someone but in this case it may be justified.
Post by: kaijyuu on June 06, 2012, 11:39:30 am
Anywho I support measures to stop actual scams, but not legitimate-if-wacky ideas. This thread seems dedicated to mocking, not pointing out scams, so the scammers seem rather irrelevant to the purpose of the thread. No Cavet Empetor here.
Though if we want to talk about actual scams with kickstarter, that's cool. Any high profile ones out there?
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on June 06, 2012, 11:47:56 am
Post by: kaijyuu on June 06, 2012, 11:52:10 am
Post by: nenjin on June 06, 2012, 12:02:14 pm
Post by: jester on June 06, 2012, 12:04:14 pm
Ninjaed; Id say a scam would be kickstarter going wrong, so has a place here, cant sit round bagging yourworld all the time.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on June 06, 2012, 12:47:17 pm
Post by: Servant Corps on June 06, 2012, 12:47:27 pm
Indeed. Anyone successfully run off to some country I can't pronounce with briefcases full of money?No confirmed scams yet (as opposed to projects that never released anything), but there has been two rather dubious projects:
*The closest you can get to a scam is a Kickstarter for a pilot of the television series called Least I Could Do (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/537261515/least-i-could-do-the-pilot?ref=live), based on the webcomic of the same name, by Ryan Sohmer. After receiving $100,000, Ryan decided to use that money to establish a comic store called the 4th Wall instead of producing said pilot. (Even then, one could argue it's not a scam since Ryan did end up spending that money...just not on the thing he originally said he would spend it on.)
*A close second is the ZionEyez kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zioneyez/eyeztm-by-zioneyez-hd-video-recording-glasses-for) for glasses, which hasn't produced a product yet and have a lot of angry customers (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zioneyez/eyeztm-by-zioneyez-hd-video-recording-glasses-for/comments) who are beginning to come around to the idea that this is, in fact, a scam. Syndey Morning Hearld has a news story on this (http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/business-it/when-the-crowd-funds-a-flop-what-next-20120529-1zgba.html). In their favor, though, ZionEyez has reportedly said that they will hand out refunds...though saying and doing are two different things. The ZionEyez Kickstarter raised over $340,000.
Post by: Gantolandon on June 06, 2012, 03:29:22 pm
Quote
I think there are probably easier and less public ways to scam the 50k or so you could possibly get from a kickstarter, thats probably whats holding up the scammers at the moment. You also have to advertise and fool the internets without people cottoning on but still make it look good enough that people will give you monies.
I don't think this would be too difficult. The only thing you really need to do is... well, basically, something. It would be nice if it has anything to do with your description, which probably was as precise as the one you can usually read on the box of an average game. There doesn't seem to be any way to enforce the promised release date, so you can totally go "Duke Nukem Forever" on people. You're free not to tell people how much this endeavor will cost you or lie about it, because no one will ever check that. I don't think I have to mention required quality of the product (hint: there isn't any).
Actually, it doesn't even seem that Kickstarter gives a shit if the product is actually made.
Quote from: Kickstarter's FAQ
Who is responsible for fulfilling the promises of a project?
It is the responsibility of the project creator to fulfill the promises of their project. Kickstarter reviews projects to ensure they do not violate the Project Guidelines, however Kickstarter does not investigate a creator's ability to complete their project.
Creators are encouraged to share links to any websites that show work related to the project, or past projects. It's up to them to make the case for their project and their ability to complete it. Because projects are usually funded by the friends, fans, and communities around its creator, there are powerful social forces that keep creators accountable.
A good rule of thumb is to under-promise and over-deliver. Transparency and communication are vital, especially after funding has ended. Creators who provide a good experience for backers will find more success in the future.
If I am unable to complete my project as promised, what should I do?
If you realize that you will be unable to follow through on your project before funding has ended, you are expected to cancel it. If you realize that you will be unable to follow through on your project after it has been successfully funded, you are expected to offer refunds to all your backers.
To avoid problems, don't over-promise when creating your project. If issues arise, communicate immediately, openly, and honestly with your backers.
Edit: I'm not even sure if the promise given on the project page is legally binding. Could you sue someone who failed to deliver the promised content?
Post by: PTTG?? on June 06, 2012, 03:37:54 pm
Post by: Sergius on June 06, 2012, 11:28:49 pm
Or... let the market handle it.
"Moar law" isn't always the solution, and often it's the source of many more problems.
Which is why Somalia is the safest, most prosperous country on earth.
Reductio ad absurdum, also strawman. I never said "no law is the best".
Post by: Draco18s on June 07, 2012, 09:16:44 am
Reductio ad absurdum
Thank you. Every time I've tried to find logical fallacies lately, it's been a list that hasn't included that phrase.
Post by: Leafsnail on June 07, 2012, 09:44:18 am
Post by: Servant Corps on June 07, 2012, 09:59:15 am
If they actually did get investments, rather than donations, out of people, Kickstarter would be legally unable to function.Gambitious (http://www.gambitious.com/) is a new Kickstarter-ripoff, with the gimmick that you can invest in Projects instead of donating to them. Based in the Netherlands, and apparently only people within the EU can invest. And yes, investments does mean you can be promised a share of the profits, but since projects can end up failing, you assume all of the risk involved.
So crowdsourcing is evolving, for better or for worse.
Post by: SealyStar on June 07, 2012, 10:11:11 am
If they actually did get investments, rather than donations, out of people, Kickstarter would be legally unable to function.Gambitious (http://www.gambitious.com/) is a new Kickstarter-ripoff, with the gimmick that you can invest in Projects instead of donating to them. Based in the Netherlands, and apparently only people within the EU can invest. And yes, investments does mean you can be promised a share of the profits, but since projects can end up failing, you assume all of the risk involved.
So crowdsourcing is evolving, for better or for worse.
Goddamn it! Why EU only? I'd love something like KickStarter, but that actually gave you a useful quid pro your quo.
Post by: Gantolandon on June 07, 2012, 02:10:51 pm
The good side is that it eliminates most of the uncertainity. For example, the project must be marketed up to two years after funding. Before submission it needs to be revieved by "professionals in the field". The project description must include such things as estimated schedule, marketing analysis and team composition. Gambitious still isn't responsible for scams, but at least honestly tries to prevent them.
The problem are the hoops you need to jump before being deemed worthy to even submit your idea. For a start, your team must be located in EU. They also need to set up a Dutch limited entity. After that, you need to be able to submit a professionally looking business plan. Or hire someone who does, if you can't speak Legalese.
My feelings are somewhat mixed. As a potential donator (or investor), I prefer the service which cares if the people, who use their site for crowdfunding, are actually able to fulfill their promises. I'd also love to be able to actually participate in profits, rather than just in costs. But if I had a small game studio, I would probably never choose Gambitious. Their main competitor is more popular, doesn't require me to hire a lawyer and lets me just throw some promises and watch people shitting cash.
Post by: Sergius on June 07, 2012, 02:17:13 pm
You haven't really provided any reason why the problems we're seeing will fix themselves though.
The reason would be that people don't like being ripped off.
Now, HOW they would fix themselves: competition. Another platform will (or already has?) appear that gives you more for your buck than Kickstarter. Then more people will want to move to that platform. Maybe at first the project starters won't want to move there (because they'd have to give back for investments, for example) but they'll realize that more people are willing to give money there, and less and less will want to give to KS (specially if a lot get ripped off somehow).
IF it happens, it'll be because the other system is better.
If it DOESN'T happen, it'll be because the current KS is preferable (maybe people just want to help out because they're selfless? or because they like the author?). Maybe the advantages of that are greater than the disadvantages of the scammers?
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on June 07, 2012, 02:19:38 pm
Post by: Draco18s on June 07, 2012, 02:26:31 pm
i see you're a firm believer in capitalism...
Which, if the news has taught us anything, doesn't work when corporations act in their own self interest for the short term. Afterall, if we put that money in a Safe Place (say, by paying our employees (read: executives) dump trucks full of money) and then the company collapses and goes through bankruptcy, no one can take that money. Everyone wins!
Except, of course, the common man.
Post by: GlyphGryph on June 07, 2012, 02:27:31 pm
Do you have any reasonable belief a free market approach here wouldn't result in the best situation, or a better alternative? I mean, this situation doesn't seem to hit on any of the major free market failure points.
I mean, most solutions seem like they'd be worse than the problem.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on June 07, 2012, 02:35:44 pm
Edit: Traveller 5... (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/traveller5/traveller-5th-edition)
Do not know if want. I love the Traveller system and the screens of their planet creation stuff made me drool a little but compared to some of the other kickstarters where the creators where coming back and trying to do their best this one feels a little hollow. I don't know why but it does.
Post by: nenjin on June 13, 2012, 07:47:28 pm
Some data on Kickstarer projects. (Sample 45,000+ projects.)
Key points-
Quote
Shorter Kickstarter campaigns tend to do better, with the average successful project lasting 38 days, compared to failed projects which averaged 43 days. Meanwhile, successful projects typically average $5,487 compared to failed projects which, on average, ask for $16,365.
Quote
Certain Kickstarter categories do better than others. Topping the list of successfully-funded projects are those in the following categories: dance (75%), theater (71%), music (68%), art (57%) and comics (54%). About 39% of tech projects are successful.
Post by: MrWiggles on June 13, 2012, 08:05:35 pm
looks like bunky's forums (unsurprisingly) died.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7msls0Q0Xjs/Tf9tq4ClNVI/AAAAAAAAALY/-cVoRAN_ERA/s1600/nooooo.jpg)
Post by: Lord Dullard on June 13, 2012, 08:15:42 pm
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1766204091/1587310059?token=1b501669
Yeah... I don't really know what to tell them. Other than 'go back to the drawing board'. But I feel somehow that such advice doesn't stand much of a chance of being considered.
(I feel kind of bad even putting this here, but if somebody can think of a kind way for me to dissuade this person from making a fool of themselves, I will try.)
Post by: Aklyon on June 13, 2012, 08:22:13 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on June 13, 2012, 08:40:19 pm
Uh... sure, lots of ideas, but ... how would it be sustainable? If that place that started with a D sank, what do the players who signed up after that do? ???
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on June 13, 2012, 08:54:57 pm
Post by: Aklyon on June 13, 2012, 09:12:27 pm
Why's Gamma at the bottom? o_O?Reading through the whole thing, it seems more like someone turned railroading into a multiplayer game. If you don't get the stuff done in time, you get tossed back to square one, if you aren't there for five days you get tossed back to square two or so (or if you get voted out), clan membership is required to progress (no soloing) and you can't go back to the previous area because it sank if you manage to avoid all of those. Also, you have to learn how to telepath before you can even access the chat, so good luck if you get confused before then!
Uh... sure, lots of ideas, but ... how would it be sustainable? If that place that started with a D sank, what do the players who signed up after that do? ???
Post by: Servant Corps on June 13, 2012, 09:35:10 pm
1) There's a website called "Venus Patrol" (http://venuspatrol.com/) that had a kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/774616737/venus-patrol-charting-a-new-course-for-videogame-c) in October 2011 to fund development. This Kickstarter raised $100,000. No content other than a video and a link to the successful kickstarter.
2) Kentucky Route Zero: A Magical Realist Adventure Game (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/149077132/kentucky-route-zero-a-magic-realist-adventure-game), made by Jake Elliott (http://cardboardcomputer.com/), raised over $8,000 in February 2011. The game was supposed to come out in Fall 2011, except it didn't, but Jake Elliott received no punishment to his reputation.
I am beginning to reconsider my original position that "products that doesn't deliver anything at all" are different inherently from "scams". They both lead to the same outcome: someone gets rich and somebody else get poorer.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on June 13, 2012, 09:44:18 pm
Post by: penguinofhonor on June 13, 2012, 09:46:02 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on June 13, 2012, 11:16:58 pm
For any venture there loads of different roadblocks that can prevent your goal from being either delayed, or stalled into cancellation, or things might have happen where they discover that their estimated budget was far to small to get the goal done.
Shit happens.
This is the liability of crowd sourcing funding, and one of its major detriments. Since only the creative folks, or creative business folks are in sole control of their goal, they lack outside voices giving direction and grounding. Sometime, you need a manager, or supervisor, or corporate jerkoff to keep you on the path to release.
Post by: nenjin on June 14, 2012, 09:26:48 am
People that take in money through Kickstarter and then remorselessly abandon it without a word are, in my book, scammers. Well-meaning people don't do shit like that.
Post by: Kansa on June 14, 2012, 09:30:00 am
Post by: Gantolandon on June 14, 2012, 09:33:27 am
Someone messaged me on Kickstarter today. They said that they were waiting for approval of their project, and had seen Cult while browsing other games. They asked for comments and advice on their project...
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1766204091/1587310059?token=1b501669
Yeah... I don't really know what to tell them. Other than 'go back to the drawing board'. But I feel somehow that such advice doesn't stand much of a chance of being considered.
(I feel kind of bad even putting this here, but if somebody can think of a kind way for me to dissuade this person from making a fool of themselves, I will try.)
I love how, after pledging over 40$ and winning a bumper sticker and a photo print, I'm required to include 10$ more for shipping.
Post by: nenjin on June 14, 2012, 09:36:42 am
This kickstarter project (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games)really does mystify me, I support what she is trying to do but why does she need 125,000$ dollars to sit in front of a video camera and talk about this stuff? I mean seriously hundreds of people on youtube do what she is promising to do with this money and yet she is getting more money than most people earn in a year for a series of 12 videos that she probably could have done without this funding at all.
Because she wants to be a professional about it, and that takes money? Money to do research and high production values? Honestly, I prefer it this way, to people's nauseating self-promotion on Youtube. "Subscribe to my channel!" "Kiss my ass!"
Post by: Gantolandon on June 14, 2012, 09:45:21 am
This kickstarter project (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games)really does mystify me, I support what she is trying to do but why does she need 125,000$ dollars to sit in front of a video camera and talk about this stuff? I mean seriously hundreds of people on youtube do what she is promising to do with this money and yet she is getting more money than most people earn in a year for a series of 12 videos that she probably could have done without this funding at all.
Because she wants to be a professional about it, and that takes money? Money to do research and high production values? Honestly, I prefer it this way, to people's nauseating self-promotion on Youtube. "Subscribe to my channel!" "Kiss my ass!"
Also, the actual goal was 6,000$. Still, looking at the actual video titles ("Fighting Fuck Toy", "Man with Boobs", "Women as Reward") I'm inclined to think that research phase is pretty much over and the conclusion drawn.
Post by: Skyrunner on June 14, 2012, 10:11:26 am
Also, $6000 is a lot. I hope she appends a document with references after each video, whose access costed well over a couple thousand >.>
Post by: MarcAFK on June 14, 2012, 10:20:30 am
Also, $6000 is a lot. I hope she appends a document with references after each video, whose access costed well over a couple thousand >.>And since she actually raised over $125,000 what should she append to her videos?
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 14, 2012, 10:51:22 am
Honestly, she should just abscond with the cash and upload a video of herself rolling in money then flipping off the camera.Also, $6000 is a lot. I hope she appends a document with references after each video, whose access costed well over a couple thousand >.>And since she actually raised over $125,000 what should she append to her videos?
I would. >.>
Since they were all donations, she is under no obligation to provide anything beyond the videos she promised. Hell she's not even under an obligation to complete the videos really.
Post by: Criptfeind on June 14, 2012, 10:59:16 am
Wow.Those titles don't exactly scream professional; imo they're more of a media-style INSERT PROVOCATIVE TITLE HERE. Personally, I wouldn't view those. :/
Also, $6000 is a lot. I hope she appends a document with references after each video, whose access costed well over a couple thousand >.>
I disagree with both points. The single video title 'The Fighting F#@k Toy' is pretty provocative, but it can be very accurate and all the other titles seem normal enough. And yeah, 6,000 dollars, not that much. I mean, she is obviously going to do it in a much more professional environment then most. That costs money. And 6,000 is not a whole lot in the long run. The fact that she made over a 100,000 dollars I don't think reflects badly upon her, but rather how important this is to some people. She did not ask for that, she just got it. People think it is a fair reward for what she offered.
And on: "Also, $6000 is a lot. I hope she appends a document with references after each video, whose access costed well over a couple thousand >.>" each video is going to cost significantly less then $500. So. Okay.
Post by: Gantolandon on June 14, 2012, 12:29:48 pm
Post by: nenjin on June 14, 2012, 12:30:48 pm
I did some research and found that (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/06/13/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games-vs-the-internet). So, apparently, the kickstarting went as expected until Internet Hate Machine hit Sarkeesian hard, including death and rape threats. The obscene amount of money being pledged is the result of people wanting to show their support to the author. Still not sure if I agree this particular project deserves as much money, but I can sympathize. At least, it is bound to encourage people not to be dicks.
Just so you know, we basically had this conversation a page or two ago already.
Post by: Gantolandon on June 14, 2012, 12:36:12 pm
I did some research and found that (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/06/13/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games-vs-the-internet). So, apparently, the kickstarting went as expected until Internet Hate Machine hit Sarkeesian hard, including death and rape threats. The obscene amount of money being pledged is the result of people wanting to show their support to the author. Still not sure if I agree this particular project deserves as much money, but I can sympathize. At least, it is bound to encourage people not to be dicks.
Just so you know, we basically had this conversation a page or two ago already.
Uh, we did? This particular Kickstarter page hadn't been brought then yet.
Post by: nenjin on June 14, 2012, 12:39:53 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on June 14, 2012, 01:00:18 pm
Of course, it is the internet.
Post by: kaijyuu on June 14, 2012, 01:14:09 pm
Post by: jester on June 14, 2012, 01:34:06 pm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on June 14, 2012, 01:59:57 pm
I did some research and found that (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/06/13/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games-vs-the-internet). So, apparently, the kickstarting went as expected until Internet Hate Machine hit Sarkeesian hard, including death and rape threats. The obscene amount of money being pledged is the result of people wanting to show their support to the author. Still not sure if I agree this particular project deserves as much money, but I can sympathize. At least, it is bound to encourage people not to be dicks.Alternatively, it could be called the Streisand Effect in action.
Post by: nenjin on June 14, 2012, 02:36:39 pm
I did some research and found that (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/06/13/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games-vs-the-internet). So, apparently, the kickstarting went as expected until Internet Hate Machine hit Sarkeesian hard, including death and rape threats. The obscene amount of money being pledged is the result of people wanting to show their support to the author. Still not sure if I agree this particular project deserves as much money, but I can sympathize. At least, it is bound to encourage people not to be dicks.Alternatively, it IS called the Streisand Effect in action.
FTFY. I've seen that term used more this week than the last 10 years on the internet.
Post by: Leafsnail on June 14, 2012, 02:43:26 pm
Post by: Servant Corps on June 14, 2012, 10:58:11 pm
Quote
Project Creators may initiate refunds at their own discretion. Kickstarter is not responsible for issuing refunds for funds that have been collected by Project Creators.
But now (http://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use), the rule has changed vis a vis "refunds":
Quote
Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.
Kickstarter reform is finally occurring, and I'm feel more secure in Kickstarter realizing potential problems in its system and starting to fix them. Good job, Kickstarter.
Post by: Karlito on June 14, 2012, 11:01:43 pm
Post by: Servant Corps on June 14, 2012, 11:03:23 pm
EDIT: Well, maybe it could help someone sue the starter of a Project, by referring to the TOS?
Post by: Scelly9 on June 14, 2012, 11:09:17 pm
EDIT: Well, maybe it could help someone sue the starter of a Project, by referring to the TOS?Only if you can find them. Its incredibly easy to stay hidden.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on June 14, 2012, 11:14:07 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on June 15, 2012, 04:29:59 am
Only if you can find them. Its incredibly easy to stay hidden.I'm pretty sure Kickstarter asks for enough identifying information when you make a project.
Post by: Scelly9 on June 15, 2012, 04:31:09 am
Fake identities, make em yourself in a few hours. Or buy one for a couple hundred.Only if you can find them. Its incredibly easy to stay hidden.I'm pretty sure Kickstarter asks for enough identifying information when you make a project.
Post by: Zangi on June 15, 2012, 12:47:03 pm
I did some research and found that (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/06/13/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games-vs-the-internet). So, apparently, the kickstarting went as expected until Internet Hate Machine hit Sarkeesian hard, including death and rape threats. The obscene amount of money being pledged is the result of people wanting to show their support to the author. Still not sure if I agree this particular project deserves as much money, but I can sympathize. At least, it is bound to encourage people not to be dicks.Seeing the comments and stuff on youtube made me want to donate 'just cause, now stfu' too... but... well, I can just throw in a dollar, seeing how well its doing already cause of that.
Post by: jester on June 16, 2012, 10:33:47 am
Post by: MrWiggles on June 16, 2012, 08:44:04 pm
I saw about half her first video series, and while I agree with about half her points. It just seems unsubstantiated. I'd be interesting in seeing some statistics behind this. Gender, Role, ect ect. I know of WiR list, but at the same time, there lots of male characters in the same body tight suits.
Some of her points, I dont quite understand; she brought up reboots. She was talking about new Star Trek, and how these reboots wont have any more girls added to them. I'm not sure, what she would want from that. These characters, for reboot in particular, were already established and known characters. And at the same time, going back to Star Trek in particular, I think they expanded and added depth to the token girl, Uhura. I also think, she accidentally dismissed Uhura being a girl, and black being part of the main cast in the 1960s. And being a part of the first interracial kiss on tv as well.
Post by: UltraValican on June 16, 2012, 08:55:31 pm
You can't be serious, this woman is expecting money for YOUTUBE VIDEOS!!! I don't agree with death and rape threats, but people can't seriously support the trash this woman spews.I did some research and found that (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/06/13/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games-vs-the-internet). So, apparently, the kickstarting went as expected until Internet Hate Machine hit Sarkeesian hard, including death and rape threats. The obscene amount of money being pledged is the result of people wanting to show their support to the author. Still not sure if I agree this particular project deserves as much money, but I can sympathize. At least, it is bound to encourage people not to be dicks.Seeing the comments and stuff on youtube made me want to donate 'just cause, now stfu' too... but... well, I can just throw in a dollar, seeing how well its doing already cause of that.
Post by: penguinofhonor on June 16, 2012, 09:00:43 pm
I expect my $25 to be used well. I checked out her past videos, her stuff is solid.
Post by: UltraValican on June 16, 2012, 09:34:21 pm
Yes, how dare she want money for professionally made videos that people won't be able to just dismiss as "YOUTUBE VIDEOS!!!" How dare she want money for access to high quality research so nobody can dismiss her sources.Scam or not, this woman is gaining fame simply for demonizing the "evil male domintated media industry", by claiming that childrens toy comercials= opression of women.
I expect my $25 to be used well. I checked out her past videos, her stuff is solid.
Post by: kaijyuu on June 16, 2012, 09:37:45 pm
Post by: penguinofhonor on June 16, 2012, 09:57:06 pm
I'll admit I've only watched about five of her videos, but her biggest fault seems to be some occasional corny comments. At no time has she said anything nearly as strawmanish as "evil male dominated media industry", instead repeatedly showing examples and building off the work of others like Women in Refrigerators (http://www.unheardtaunts.com/wir/).
Post by: MrWiggles on June 16, 2012, 10:06:37 pm
Post by: kaijyuu on June 16, 2012, 10:08:10 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on June 16, 2012, 10:15:39 pm
Superheroes in general get depowered or killed at the drop of a hat. Batman got his back broken, Superman's died like 5 times in the past 20 years, all but a handful of the mutants from X-Men got depowered at one point...
A point that she mentioned in her videos. She countered by saying that male heroes nearly always got their powers back or came back to life, while female heroes mostly didn't.
Post by: MrWiggles on June 16, 2012, 10:18:08 pm
Superheroes in general get depowered or killed at the drop of a hat. Batman got his back broken, Superman's died like 5 times in the past 20 years, all but a handful of the mutants from X-Men got depowered at one point...
A point that she mentioned in her videos. She countered by saying that male heroes nearly always got their powers back or came back to life, while female heroes mostly didn't.
But that doesnt really come from sexism. That generally from demand, if they're leading characters, or story reasons if they're secondary characters. What leads to most super heros character resurrecting is readerbase request, or writers/artist wanting to use them again.
Post by: penguinofhonor on June 16, 2012, 10:26:41 pm
a) Women are often killed or harmed quickly, without much of a fight, or offscreen. Bane breaking batman's back was huge. It was in your face, on the cover of the issue.
b) Men are hurt or depowered to advance their character, women are hurt or depowered to advance another character, typically male. She gives the example of a Batgirl who also got her back broken (well, shot in the spine, but same effect). Why'd this happen? To drive Commissioner Gordon insane. It was a plot device for him, not her.
Post by: kaijyuu on June 16, 2012, 10:28:35 pm
Random bigshot list of super heroes: IGN's top 100 comic book heroes. (http://www.ign.com/top/comic-book-heroes/) Wonder woman's the only female character in the top 10, and the only leading female character in the list as far as I bothered to check.
I think the point that's trying to be made is that females are used as damsels in distress/morality pets/angst machines rather than active characters, but that's more because they're not in the spotlight (being side characters) than their gender. Male characters get the same treatment; Jason Todd (robin #2) died to give Batman some angst, just like Green Lantern's girlfriend being stuffed into a fridge did.
To fix this problem, I think we just need more big female superheroes. Wonder Woman's pretty lonely at the top.
Post by: MrWiggles on June 16, 2012, 10:55:03 pm
I think the more important part of WiR is thatYea, that what WiR is saying, but that what Secondary Characters are suppose to do, indifferent to their gender. Its there story role, over their gender. And there been plethora of male secondary characters have also gotten fucked. Thats my issue, is that it implies that its distortional, but I dont see anything to support it, beside a bias list.
a) Women are often killed or harmed quickly, without much of a fight, or offscreen. Bane breaking batman's back was huge. It was in your face, on the cover of the issue.
b) Men are hurt or depowered to advance their character, women are hurt or depowered to advance another character, typically male. She gives the example of a Batgirl who also got her back broken (well, shot in the spine, but same effect). Why'd this happen? To drive Commissioner Gordon insane. It was a plot device for him, not her.
Post by: blackmagechill on June 16, 2012, 11:04:44 pm
b) She gives the example of a Batgirl who also got her back broken (well, shot in the spine, but same effect).There was an NPR talk bit about how there was a spin-off series where she was "The Oracle" or something and people got pissed when they did the Marvel reset or whatever and then she had a spine again. It sort of advanced her as a character.
Post by: MaximumZero on June 16, 2012, 11:35:16 pm
Post by: SomeStupidGuy on June 16, 2012, 11:42:03 pm
Oracle was a badass.Pretty much this.
If anything, she's proof that women were being represented better in comics.
Ooh, Renee Montoya's pretty cool too.
I mean really, badass Gotham city cop & eventual successor to the Question? I have trouble thinking of all that many heroes that awesome.
Post by: kaijyuu on June 16, 2012, 11:50:57 pm
Post by: blackmagechill on June 16, 2012, 11:52:21 pm
Post by: UltraValican on June 17, 2012, 08:09:09 am
I'm not going to lie, at least she got me actually thinking about this sort of thing, and swayed my view of feminism(just a little).
What I really don't understand is why "feminists" get rectal ravaged when a "twig with two globes for a chest" shows up on screen, if I'm supposed to feel bad about my sexuality then they can go back to getting bent.
Post by: penguinofhonor on June 17, 2012, 09:18:07 am
I shape my perception on women based on women I've actually interacted with, not what Holly Wood or Gears of Grim dark 4: BIGASS FRIES edition present.
I guarantee this isn't as simple as you think it is. Sexist stereotypes have been shown pretty much universally to increase sexist attitudes. Nobody's going to go out and think that some shallow crappy female character is real, but when, for instance, the vast majority of female characters seem to exist solely to help out a male character, that plays right into stereotypes like "The most important thing for a woman to do in her life is to find a man".
It might not convince people, but a little bit of media might make someone feel just a little better with their sexist beliefs, and when it's getting broadcast daily to the entire western world then the influence starts to add up.
What I really don't understand is why "feminists" get rectal ravaged when a "twig with two globes for a chest" shows up on screen, if I'm supposed to feel bad about my sexuality then they can go back to getting bent.
It's not men finding them attractive that's the problem. The problem is when the goal of most every female character seems to be for men to find them attractive. I mean, the things female characters get put through to look sexy are just ridiculous. If male characters are subject to the same thing (http://kevinbolk.deviantart.com/art/Zero-Suit-Master-Chief-182780088), it's comical how ridiculous they look. But when that spine breaking hey-you-need-to-see-my-ass-and-my-boobs pose is basically Zero Suit Samus' default, nobody blinks an eye.
If women's sexuality were given as much weight as men's (http://www.shortpacked.com/2011/comic/book-13/05-the-death-of-snkrs/falseequivalence/), it'd be fine because everyone would have something nice to look at, but currently nobody wants that.
Post by: SomeStupidGuy on June 17, 2012, 01:14:10 pm
Seriously. My only exposer to Question/Renee Montoya was their respective appearances in the DCAU, and if they're half as awesome in the comics...They're at least as awesome. Get some trade paperbacks of the Question's '87 run and check out some of Gotham Central.
Anyone else think we sorely need a comics thread?
Post by: kaijyuu on June 17, 2012, 01:15:37 pm
Post by: SomeStupidGuy on June 17, 2012, 01:21:24 pm
I added comic books to the cartoon thread (similar to how the anime thread's often talking about manga). Gush all you want there :DOh cool, I'll have to check it out. Thanks!
Post by: MrWiggles on June 17, 2012, 04:27:12 pm
Post by: scriver on June 17, 2012, 05:59:42 pm
Post by: kaijyuu on June 17, 2012, 06:03:20 pm
I'm trying to think of "good" examples from pop culture but if Star Trek isn't included in "pop culture" I'm not sure exactly where the line is drawn in the first place. The example I usually bring up is Ripley from Alien, but that might be filed under "geek culture" by some.
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on June 17, 2012, 06:11:55 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on June 17, 2012, 06:18:20 pm
Post by: Karlito on June 17, 2012, 07:56:01 pm
Post by: Scelly9 on June 17, 2012, 09:19:30 pm
So I saw this (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1609370348/space-folk-album-lunar-aid-1985) on Boing Boing today (watch the video). I guess it's kind of a cute hoax, even though I don't think it's that funny, but what does it say about Kickstarter's review process that they actually let this one through?That they have a sense of humor? Its not like its going to get funded.
Post by: kaijyuu on June 17, 2012, 09:26:09 pm
Post by: penguinofhonor on June 17, 2012, 09:39:11 pm
I guess it's just a convoluted advertisement for their site?
Post by: miauw62 on June 18, 2012, 08:15:49 am
cave johnson out
Post by: mattie2009 on June 18, 2012, 05:09:51 pm
Post by: Zangi on June 18, 2012, 06:39:36 pm
Apparently I procrastinated too long to throw a dollar her way.You can't be serious, this woman is expecting money for YOUTUBE VIDEOS!!! I don't agree with death and rape threats, but people can't seriously support the trash this woman spews.I did some research and found that (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/06/13/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games-vs-the-internet). So, apparently, the kickstarting went as expected until Internet Hate Machine hit Sarkeesian hard, including death and rape threats. The obscene amount of money being pledged is the result of people wanting to show their support to the author. Still not sure if I agree this particular project deserves as much money, but I can sympathize. At least, it is bound to encourage people not to be dicks.Seeing the comments and stuff on youtube made me want to donate 'just cause, now stfu' too... but... well, I can just throw in a dollar, seeing how well its doing already cause of that.
Post by: Sergius on June 18, 2012, 07:43:44 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on June 18, 2012, 09:35:20 pm
Post by: Sergius on June 18, 2012, 10:43:21 pm
I dont understand the bitch about the video series being on youtube.
YouTube is the big satan, it's stealing Hollywood's profits (derking our jerbs). If it's not on theatres or DVD, it's a scam and can't be a professional video. Or something.
Also YouTube is for cats videos.
Post by: jester on June 19, 2012, 12:03:03 pm
I dont understand the bitch about the video series being on youtube.
Believe the issue is that youtube vids have already been made on almost any topic for free with no hassles, then someone made a porn version and it got posted on youporn, also without alot of outside cash being dumped in. Then this chick turns up and asks for money to make a youtube vid.......
Post by: MrWiggles on June 19, 2012, 06:04:04 pm
So, youtube videos aren't allowed to have a budget?I dont understand the bitch about the video series being on youtube.
Believe the issue is that youtube vids have already been made on almost any topic for free with no hassles, then someone made a porn version and it got posted on youporn, also without alot of outside cash being dumped in. Then this chick turns up and asks for money to make a youtube vid.......
Post by: nenjin on June 19, 2012, 06:54:55 pm
Post by: Akhier the Dragon hearted on June 19, 2012, 07:17:21 pm
Post by: penguinofhonor on June 19, 2012, 07:52:58 pm
Post by: Karlito on July 10, 2012, 08:45:42 pm
Oh and
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: kaijyuu on July 10, 2012, 08:54:08 pm
Understand that Toady does a similar thing here. It's not ads he's willing to sell away, but fast updates. The game would still be developed without him getting donations, but it'd go much slower as he'd have a day job. The end users (us) don't have to pay a dime, but the charity of a few benefits all.
I really think that "give us money and we'll release a bunch of free stuff" Kickstarters (and things similar to Kickstarter) are the Future.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 10, 2012, 09:07:03 pm
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 10, 2012, 09:23:40 pm
Post by: Neonivek on July 10, 2012, 09:25:29 pm
I don't understand how its against the rules.
It is outright written in the rules that personal funding is not allowed. Such as putting your kid through college or yourself.
Post by: kaijyuu on July 10, 2012, 09:25:41 pm
Post by: Neonivek on July 10, 2012, 09:27:04 pm
Post by: Rez on July 10, 2012, 09:29:26 pm
Post by: Jackrabbit on July 10, 2012, 09:30:32 pm
Rules wise however, it's a different kettle of fish. I don't see it as a real issue and frankly I like the idea in theory. I guess we'll see how kickstarter deals with it. I suppose they could argue that people's donations will allow them to produce more content or content specifically as rewards for the funding itself. That said, if the thing being kickstarted is the rewards for the kickstarting then I really doubt they'd let that fly. It's too meta, for one thing.
e: their argument is that the kickstarter is to allow them more freedom to make comics and there's a lot of precedent for that. I thought this was specifically an ad driven thing but I am totally up for that.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 10, 2012, 09:52:53 pm
I've seen number of projects for sequels on crowd sources sites and kickstarter in particular. So I dont even think Penny Arcade is doing anything unique.
And when I'm saying against the rules, I actually mean the literal rules not your personal 'sprit of intention' that you've assumed for Kickstarter.
Post by: Draco18s on July 10, 2012, 09:53:46 pm
No really. Look at the $15 level or the $300 level.
"Will follow your tweets for a year." WTF?
Post by: MrWiggles on July 10, 2012, 10:00:00 pm
Post by: Draco18s on July 10, 2012, 10:03:30 pm
How is it not a project?
The funds are going to support an already-existing website.
The plan is to, quote, "remove the advertisements."
Oh, and it lasts a year. For a million dollars they're going to remove all ads on the site for a year.
Post by: kaijyuu on July 10, 2012, 10:05:26 pm
Though you got me on the inappropriate rewards, heh. Well kinda; the tweets one is the only 100% ridiculous level, the rest are sane with something ridiculous tacked on (like chasing ducks).
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Oh, and it lasts a year. For a million dollars they're going to remove all ads on the site for a year.I'm not sure a million dollars would break even with what they gain from ads and novelty items, to be honest. They've got 14 employees and their ridiculous number of projects to fund, not counting the new ones offered here. Without their store I wouldn't expect a million to last more than 7 or so months.
Post by: Karlito on July 10, 2012, 10:09:37 pm
Post by: Jackrabbit on July 10, 2012, 10:20:58 pm
E: that's meant to be *huge, android phones are just assholes
Post by: MrWiggles on July 10, 2012, 10:43:49 pm
Post by: Draco18s on July 10, 2012, 10:56:12 pm
The Project /is/ Penny Arcade. It doesn't matter if it existed prior.
Actually.
1. Funding for projects only. A project has a clear goal, like making an album, a book, or a work of art. A project will eventually be completed, and something will be produced by it. A project is not open-ended. Starting a business, for example, does not qualify as a project.
I do not believe that PA qualifies here. They are technically trying to "run a business"
2. Projects must fit Kickstarter’s categories. We currently support projects in the categories of Art, Comics, Dance, Design, Fashion, Film, Food, Games, Music, Photography, Publishing, Technology, and Theater.
PA fits...where?
3. Prohibited uses:
No "fund my life" projects. Examples include projects to pay tuition or bills, go on vacation, or buy a new camera
Or say, paying for webhosting?
Prohibited content. There are some things we just don't allow on Kickstarter.
* Pornographic material
Say, "Gabe thinks about you during sex"?
Post by: Scelly9 on July 10, 2012, 11:04:50 pm
Prohibited content. There are some things we just don't allow on Kickstarter.That is not porn.
* Pornographic material
Say, "Gabe thinks about you during sex"?
Post by: MrWiggles on July 10, 2012, 11:06:56 pm
----
Web Hosting, Lawyer Fees, Living Expense host of misc. expenses with funding the project is acceptable use of the money raised. Lots of other crowd source projects have similar misc. indirect costs for their projects which they hope to pay for through crowd sourcing.
------
How is this project different from Giant in the Playground reprinting old comic collections? And if you look at their funding graphs you'll see various spaces marked as 'administrative costs'. Which probably include talking to lawyers, getting things copy righted, paying for extra warehouse space. A whole host of legit indirect expenses for for his kickstarter project.
Post by: Jackrabbit on July 10, 2012, 11:08:05 pm
Post by: kaijyuu on July 10, 2012, 11:09:58 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on July 10, 2012, 11:13:00 pm
There seem to be some unquantifiable arbitrary success level, where you're not allowed to use Crowd Funding, which is only arbitrary applied. For someone reason, Penny Arcade is consider successful enough, but not loved enough to use crowd sourcing.
Post by: Draco18s on July 10, 2012, 11:13:01 pm
Penny Arcade is a comic, primarily. It has other business interest but its primarily a web comic.
If they raise exactly $250,000, what, exactly, will they be producing with that money that they wouldn't have otherwise produced? I can find nothing in their entire...thing other than "remove ads from the leaderboard page."
Post by: MrWiggles on July 10, 2012, 11:14:24 pm
Where was this bitching with Orge with Steve Jackson games?Penny Arcade is a comic, primarily. It has other business interest but its primarily a web comic.
If they raise exactly $250,000, what, exactly, will they be producing with that money that they wouldn't have otherwise produced? I can find nothing in their entire...thing other than "remove ads from the leaderboard page."
Post by: ToonyMan on July 10, 2012, 11:33:13 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on July 10, 2012, 11:48:05 pm
I can eat ice cream with them if I pay $50,000?? Sold.Erroneous much?
Post by: Jackrabbit on July 11, 2012, 12:43:18 am
Post by: lordcooper on July 11, 2012, 12:48:33 am
Penny Arcade is a comic, primarily. It has other business interest but its primarily a web comic.
If they raise exactly $250,000, what, exactly, will they be producing with that money that they wouldn't have otherwise produced? I can find nothing in their entire...thing other than "remove ads from the leaderboard page."
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What are your advertising guys going to do without this work?
We're going to shift them from "sell ad space" jobs to "make things" jobs. That's the company we intend to be. They were nervous at first, but now they can't stop thinking about what's next. It's all human bandwidth we can put toward the next surprise.
And several other examples throughout the text ::)
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 11, 2012, 01:45:31 am
I understand they could make new stuff with a million dollars, but come on. They're Penny Arcade. They have several video games about them, they run the most popular webcomic on the internet, and they run two huge gaming conventions a year.
I'd understand if they had a specific new project or something that they wanted a final push towards, but this is just too vague. I just feel like they've hyped up kickstarter to their fans, and now they're cashing in on the hype they created.
If anyone who wasn't Penny Arcade made a Kickstarter that was "Yeah, I just want to pay the bills so I have more time to do some more cool stuff with my life" then they'd get shut down in an instant. I don't expect Kickstarter to shut down a free couple thousand dollars, though.
That was pretty rambling and unrelated. I hope there's some sort of point there though.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 11, 2012, 01:53:17 am
The ones listed above aren't about bring something new (Well Double Fine Adventure is), and all the project leaders for these things are successful in their field. (Double Fine Adventure is professionally successful but commercially not so much.)
How is Penny Arcade really different from the above projects?
Post by: lordcooper on July 11, 2012, 01:56:31 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 11, 2012, 05:16:14 am
Ultimately, these guys want to free up their staff to create content rather than sell ad space and (judging by the speed this is getting funded) a lot of people are happy to pay money for this to happen. Is there actually an argument here that doesn't revolve around it 'bringing down the good name of Kickstarter' or some similar trollop? I'm really not sure who's losing out in all this.Nobody has to lose, people are just pointing out that this is against the rules.
Hell if it's okay to kickstarter just to 'free up staff to create content' then I could toss myself on there. If I made a million dollars I could stop working and create content, after all.
Post by: Jackrabbit on July 11, 2012, 07:07:09 am
e: I missed this the first time around, but people were saying that the PA guys following your tweets for a year was a ridiculous rewards. What? How fantastic would that be as a platform to advertise any of your projects or projects you think deserve to come to their attention? Considering how much traffic PA has the capacity to direct based on what the PA guys are currently interested in, it could be an enormously powerful marketing tool if not done in an obnoxious manner.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 11, 2012, 07:27:08 am
Post by: Draco18s on July 11, 2012, 07:48:03 am
And if that was the rule, that they were successful then we have to shutdown Shadowrun, Orge, Wasteland Sequel, Carmengeddon, Leisure Suit Larry, Order of the Stick, Double Fine Adventures, and whole host of others I'm forgetting about.
Um, no?
Shadowrun (Harebrained Studios) is producing a game which I will be able to play when it's done.
Ditto Wasteland, Carmageddon, and Doublefine Adventures (Ogre I'm usure about, as I didn't see the actual kickstarter, but assume it falls here as well)
Order of the Stick used the money to publish their strip into books that I could then hold in my hands.
Penny Arcade? They're going to use the money to pay bills so they can make more stuff that they're going to give away for free.
If I donate an arbitrarily large amount of cash* to PA's project, what do I, the consumer, get out of it in the end?
Nothing.
Absolutely.
Nothing.
Except the satisfaction of knowing that I helped a hugely successful company pay their bills. Or maybe a t-shirt with their logo on it (big whoop).
Heck, if I PAY THEM $7500, I get the HONOR of being their OFFICE BITCH for a day.
I mean, hell, if people are willing to pay other people to do other people's work, where are my rabid fanboys? I've got ALL KINDS of neat projects I would love to work on for, but for one reason or another, I can't. I'd love it if someone would pay me seven grand and do the work too!
*By which I mean "$25 gets you my book"/"$15 gets you my game on Steam" level found in other projects.
Post by: AlStar on July 11, 2012, 07:56:22 am
Hell if it's okay to kickstarter just to 'free up staff to create content' then I could toss myself on there. If I made a million dollars I could stop working and create content, after all.
Um, that's the entire point of Kickstarter. You are, in fact, free to make up a project that asks for a million dollars so that you can stop working and create content.
Post by: Aqizzar on July 11, 2012, 08:01:11 am
Hell if it's okay to kickstarter just to 'free up staff to create content' then I could toss myself on there. If I made a million dollars I could stop working and create content, after all.
Um, that's the entire point of Kickstarter. You are, in fact, free to make up a project that asks for a million dollars so that you can stop working and create content.
The irony being that unless you're already famous, and therefore previously successful at some point in your life, you have pretty much zero hope of getting more than a couple people to chip $10 towards your pie in the sky ideas. It feels like it should be whining to say that, because no shit people who've already proven they can complete a major project are going to get more attention, but if the ideal of Kickstarter is that anybody can crowdsource a pile of capital if their idea is good enough, let's not kid ourselves about how realistic that is.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 11, 2012, 08:01:18 am
Within the bounds of Kickstarter's rules, yes.Hell if it's okay to kickstarter just to 'free up staff to create content' then I could toss myself on there. If I made a million dollars I could stop working and create content, after all.
Um, that's the entire point of Kickstarter. You are, in fact, free to make up a project that asks for a million dollars so that you can stop working and create content.
Post by: Jackrabbit on July 11, 2012, 08:40:35 am
Penny Arcade? They're going to use the money to pay bills so they can make more stuff that they're going to give away for free.
If I donate an arbitrarily large amount of cash* to PA's project, what do I, the consumer, get out of it in the end?
Nothing.
Absolutely.
Nothing.
Except the satisfaction of knowing that I helped a hugely successful company pay their bills. Or maybe a t-shirt with their logo on it (big whoop).
Nonsense. They're asking the community to give them money so that they can produce more content for the community. You don't get nothing out of it and if you honestly think that all this is is helping a company pay their bills you need to look at it again and read the bits where they say what you'll get if you donate (it's the QnA section down the bottom and also it's most of the page too, where they list the comics and content they're planning to make if this goes ahead). If you didn't want what they're offering, you don't give them money. That's the whole idea. What about this is a problem? I mean, if this doesn't work and Penny Arcade just carries on, is that a good thing from your perspective and if so why? And if they succeed and their fans give them the freedom to produce more content and do away with ads, is that a bad thing? How could it possibly be?
I really don't understand your objection here. Penny Arcade have leveraged Kickstarter as a platform to allow their fans to have a direct say in how they want Penny Arcade to continue and you're upset about this?
Post by: nenjin on July 11, 2012, 08:44:36 am
Where was this bitching with Orge with Steve Jackson games?Penny Arcade is a comic, primarily. It has other business interest but its primarily a web comic.
If they raise exactly $250,000, what, exactly, will they be producing with that money that they wouldn't have otherwise produced? I can find nothing in their entire...thing other than "remove ads from the leaderboard page."
I'm sorry but, weren't you part of the thread about 20 pages back where we did NOTHING but talk about Ogre, Steve Jackson, and why many of us thought it wasn't appropriate for KS?
And this looks like yet another instance of "successful personalities press the internet button to make their fans projectile vomit cash at them." I'm in agreement with others that "pay my bills" and "help me do stuff!!!11", from a wildly successful start up who has had no problem "doing stuff" and "paying bills" up until now....is a shameless cash grab.
I swear, the more of these things I pay attention to, the more unquestioning fandom seems like sheepdom. I like a lot of things in life, bands, games, companies, music....I don't just throw cash at them because they ask for it though. With other projects I've disagreed with, at least they came with a product, and the only question to me was "could you have done this without KS?" PA seems to be testing the boundaries of how far their fans will go to give them money for essentially nothing.
Or to put it another way, projects like this seem to be successful companies "cashing in" on their fan love. The product/goal at times seems pretty incidental.
Post by: kaijyuu on July 11, 2012, 09:52:49 am
If you want to argue that Penny Arcade should make their own crowd sourcing system instead of using Kickstarter, I suppose that's fair. It's pretty grey area for KS's rules, after all. And they wouldn't have to worry about KS's cut!
...But I am feeling a little undercurrent of PA hate :P
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The irony being that unless you're already famous, and therefore previously successful at some point in your life, you have pretty much zero hope of getting more than a couple people to chip $10 towards your pie in the sky ideas. It feels like it should be whining to say that, because no shit people who've already proven they can complete a major project are going to get more attention, but if the ideal of Kickstarter is that anybody can crowdsource a pile of capital if their idea is good enough, let's not kid ourselves about how realistic that is."The rich get richer, and the poor poorer" applies to far more than just money. :)
Post by: Draco18s on July 11, 2012, 10:38:21 am
Nonsense. They're asking the community to give them money so that they can produce more content for the community. You don't get nothing out of it and if you honestly think that all this is is helping a company pay their bills you need to look at it again and read the bits where they say what you'll get if you donate (it's the QnA section down the bottom and also it's most of the page too, where they list the comics and content they're planning to make if this goes ahead).
Don't I get that for not-donating too? What's the incentive to "donate" versus "not donate, but they make the goal anyway"?
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If you didn't want what they're offering, you don't give them money. That's the whole idea. What about this is a problem? I mean, if this doesn't work and Penny Arcade just carries on, is that a good thing from your perspective and if so why? And if they succeed and their fans give them the freedom to produce more content and do away with ads, is that a bad thing? How could it possibly be?
Hmm. Let me see.
If the goal is to get the fans to pay them money for what they do...
...Why didn't they create a paid subscription service? Those that care enough about the content to throw $25 at them now (and next year, and every year after that), could be asked to pay $25 a year as a subscription and get access to exclusive content (and no ads!)
Those people that don't? Ads and less content.
Amazing how it works, and it doesn't need Kickstarter. Websites have been doing subscription services for decades, so much so that there's an HTTP error code for having not paid. (No really, "402: Payment Required") It's not used, but it was built into the specification in anticipation of such paid services.
Post by: nenjin on July 11, 2012, 11:07:48 am
Post by: Levi on July 11, 2012, 11:10:33 am
I don't see why they can't just run the same thing on the PA website instead of using kickstarter.
Post by: Draco18s on July 11, 2012, 11:29:02 am
I don't see why they can't just run the same thing on the PA website instead of using kickstarter.
Precisely.
Post by: Derekristow on July 11, 2012, 11:30:02 am
Don't I get that for not-donating too? What's the incentive to "donate" versus "not donate, but they make the goal anyway"?Maybe they are just nice people who want everyone to have the same access to everything, but they don't have the money to do that now?
...Why didn't they create a paid subscription service? Those that care enough about the content to throw $25 at them now (and next year, and every year after that), could be asked to pay $25 a year as a subscription and get access to exclusive content (and no ads!)
What is your incentive for donating to Toady? He'd probably keep making Dwarf Fortress anyways, and he doesn't have a hard monetary goal to achieve either. There is no "incentive to 'donate' versus 'not donate, but they make the goal anyway'?", except that you want him to be able to work on the game.
From the looks of it, they also want to see if this is a viable thing without risking their actual business on it. If they reach their goals, they can do this again next year in a different way, knowing that it will work out. I agree that Kickstarter was an odd choice of platform though. Through their own site would have been a lot less controversial.
Sorta-Edit: On reading the FAQ, they seem to be saying that they don't have the manpower to set up a Kickstarter-like system for themselves, so they're going with something that already works well and is highly trusted.
Post by: Draco18s on July 11, 2012, 11:55:05 am
Maybe they are just nice people who want everyone to have the same access to everything, but they don't have the money to do that now?
Huh? Who's the "they" in this sentence?
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What is your incentive for donating to Toady? He'd probably keep making Dwarf Fortress anyways, and he doesn't have a hard monetary goal to achieve either. There is no "incentive to 'donate' versus 'not donate, but they make the goal anyway'?", except that you want him to be able to work on the game.
Ah. But Toady isn't doing a Kickstarter project is he? He could, but he isn't.
Heck, he'd probably even have a better rational than PA does for doing a Kickstarter.
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From the looks of it, they also want to see if this is a viable thing without risking their actual business on it.
How would have putting a shiny "donate to us" button on their site, with a shiny "here's our goal, we'll remove ads if we reach it!" been any more risky?
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I agree that Kickstarter was an odd choice of platform though. Through their own site would have been a lot less controversial.
This is my primary objection. I have no qualms with people throwing money at them, or them trying to raise money to make their site better. I have issues with them doing it through Kickstater, as Kickstarter is meant for projects and "fund my website" is not a project.
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Sorta-Edit: On reading the FAQ, they seem to be saying that they don't have the manpower to set up a Kickstarter-like system for themselves, so they're going with something that already works well and is highly trusted.
http://www.indiegogo.com/
Indie GoGo doesn't care if you donate all the money to charity (as evidenced by Bear Love Good, Cancer Bad).
Post by: Sergius on July 11, 2012, 11:57:33 am
Also, the prizes for donating can't be the REASON for donating. The reason is "to make product X". Otherwise, I'll just make a Kickstarter project called "Get T-Shirts for $15" without any actual startup happening.
Now, it's easy to dismiss all this as "Anti-Penny Arcade Hatedom Internet Movement of Hatred" for people who have problems thinking about things objectively.
It would make more sense to make a start project "Make an Automata book" or "Make a complete Lookouts book". But those are just "stretchgoals". The primary goal for reaching the minimum is "remove ads". How long? Until the money runs out?
Post by: Draco18s on July 11, 2012, 12:00:18 pm
Also, the prizes for donating can't be the REASON for donating. The reason is "to make product X". Otherwise, I'll just make a Kickstarter project called "Get T-Shirts for $15" without any actual startup happening.
None of PA's rewards include said "Product X" which I believe we harped on before (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104759.msg3181668#msg3181668).
Hence asking "is there some arbitrary value which gets me 'the project'?" and the answer being "no."
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 11, 2012, 12:08:49 pm
They wish to be paid without having ads, so they kickstarter. If they are paid an absurd amount, they may also make some comics.
Post by: Sergius on July 11, 2012, 12:12:41 pm
Also, the prizes for donating can't be the REASON for donating. The reason is "to make product X". Otherwise, I'll just make a Kickstarter project called "Get T-Shirts for $15" without any actual startup happening.
None of PA's rewards include said "Product X" which I believe we harped on before (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104759.msg3181668#msg3181668).
Hence asking "is there some arbitrary value which gets me 'the project'?" and the answer being "no."
That was my point, maybe "t-shirts" wasn't the right choice (since they could be the product). What I meant to say is, I could just create a project called "some people get to feel good about giving me money, and those who give a lot get to have dinner with me/whatever". That's not a project.
The donation also apparently has no obligation to give you the project (some Kickstarts are just a project that is going to be sold to people, including the donors). But there HAS to be a project. "Remove ads" is not, IMO, a project. They can remove ads for free, it costs no work, they just will stop receiving the money from them. It's also a temporary situation, since "replace income X with some donation" doesn't work unless the donation is ongoing (and Kickstarters have an end).
In my opinion, there are 2 kinds of Kickstarts: something that will make the owner money APART FROM THE CROWDFUNDING (so it's somehow self-sustaining), or something that won't (in which case it has to be something specific, like "create 1000 unique watches", whose cost is going to be covered entirely by the crowdfunding [assuming not a single copy of product X is sold later]). "Remove ads" is neither, because eventually you're going to need money again, so either you put them back N time later, or just make a second "stop me from adding ads back" Kickstarter?
Post by: Draco18s on July 11, 2012, 12:23:16 pm
That was my point, maybe "t-shirts" wasn't the right choice (since they could be the product). What I meant to say is, I could just create a project called "some people get to feel good about giving me money, and those who give a lot get to have dinner with me/whatever". That's not a project.
I was agreeing with you. :)
T-shirts tend to be an add-on that is "above and beyond" the "product x." But yes, a project could be "t-shirts." PA's project is not "t-shirts."
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(some Kickstarts are just a project that is going to be sold to people, including the donors)
While true, they've at least got a tangible "product x" when they are done that is salable. Also, I haven't seen one like this that was successful yet. But I will admit to not looking very hard.
Quote
or just make a second "stop me from adding ads back" Kickstarter?
See their FAQ :|
Quote
Is this indefinite / what happens after a year / are you going to ask again?
This is for a period of 1 year. From January 1, 2013 to December 31, 2013. We will run the fundraiser again, around this time next year.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 11, 2012, 12:42:40 pm
Post by: Rose on July 11, 2012, 12:58:54 pm
They don't know yet if they will get enough. They know how much it takes to run the server. If they were to switch to donations only, rather than ad revenue, there's a very big risk that they won't get enough donations and they'll be boned.
With kickstarter, it's safer. If they get enough donations to run the site for a year, they get the donations and they turn off adverts. If they don't, then they stay with adverts, and nobody gets ripped off from donating money and finding the adverts still there because there wasn't enough donations to keep it going.
Post by: nenjin on July 11, 2012, 01:06:54 pm
What is anyone "kickstarting" here? NOTHING. PA is old and venerable and isn't "starting" anything except freedom from advertisers....for however long $250,000k pays their bandwidth costs. Which I can't imagine will be all that long.
Post by: Zangi on July 11, 2012, 01:07:29 pm
If Kickstarter has no problem with it, then great, whatever, I ain't putting money in it anyways.
Post by: Rez on July 11, 2012, 01:18:24 pm
I don't really know why a consumer of PA's news and comics would see significant value in removing 1 ad (which is what the goal will achieve), but it's not my role to tell them they can't pay for Penny Arcade Plus. As someone pointed out, PA doesn't have the infrastructure set up to allow kickstarters convenience with ventures that could fail to acquire the necessary capital, so kickstarter is a way for them to guarantee to their investors/consumers that they won't get ripped off. The odd part about it is just the PA has enough reputation that they can probably afford to bank on it and fund raise without kickstarter.
Post by: Draco18s on July 11, 2012, 01:25:13 pm
It's just crowd sourced venture investment. It kickstarts ideas and companies that aren't deemed good enough or reputable enough to receive investment from more formal sources. No particular reason you can't use the same avenue to obtain investment for other 'projects'. I don't really see how it's skeevy.
Underlined the important phraseology here. Penny Arcade is good/reputable enough to get investment from "other" sources.
Such as implementing a paid subscription service. Pay your $25/year and get no ads (just like Deviant Art). Which is essentially what they're doing.
Post by: Zangi on July 11, 2012, 01:36:01 pm
I'm pretty sure penny-arcade doesn't have a log-in system like deviantart... oh yea, there is ad-block I suppose...It's just crowd sourced venture investment. It kickstarts ideas and companies that aren't deemed good enough or reputable enough to receive investment from more formal sources. No particular reason you can't use the same avenue to obtain investment for other 'projects'. I don't really see how it's skeevy.
Underlined the important phraseology here. Penny Arcade is good/reputable enough to get investment from "other" sources.
Such as implementing a paid subscription service. Pay your $25/year and get no ads (just like Deviant Art). Which is essentially what they're doing.
Post by: UltraValican on July 11, 2012, 01:37:26 pm
It's just crowd sourced venture investment. It kickstarts ideas and companies that aren't deemed good enough or reputable enough to receive investment from more formal sources. No particular reason you can't use the same avenue to obtain investment for other 'projects'. I don't really see how it's skeevy.
Underlined the important phraseology here. Penny Arcade is good/reputable enough to get investment from "other" sources.
Such as implementing a paid subscription service. Pay your $25/year and get no ads (just like Deviant Art). Which is essentially what they're doing.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm pretty sure penny-arcade doesn't have a log-in system like deviantart... oh yea, there is ad-block I suppose...Don't they have a forum?
Post by: Sergius on July 11, 2012, 01:39:22 pm
I don't see anything wrong morally with this. I also think it's great to use a platform that allows "get ALL the money or NONE of it". But I think there's a separate ethical problem, about "why them and nobody else gets to ignore the rules set by Kickstarter itself".
Post by: UltraValican on July 11, 2012, 01:44:03 pm
Well, to be fair, they're paying so everyone gets not to see ads.Thats what I like about it. :D
Post by: Zangi on July 11, 2012, 01:47:55 pm
*snip*Is it attached to the actual website? I don't know myself and most game forums have a separate log-in for the website and the forum... (Does deviantart even have a forum?)I'm pretty sure penny-arcade doesn't have a log-in system like deviantart... oh yea, there is ad-block I suppose...Don't they have a forum?
Post by: Rez on July 11, 2012, 01:49:27 pm
Their forum is sourced from a 3rd party.
How are they ignoring the rules? Kickstarter cleared their project. They're offering rewards at the different payment levels. The project has a clear goal: remove ads for a year. Their fuckery with the stretch goals is irritating and obscure, but there's nothing I can see that violates the rules for projects.
Furthermore, kickstarter has no great motive to let them ignore the rules. Plenty of other projects with a lot lower profile have raised many times what penny arcade wants. The distrust being generated here is a pretty clear indication that kickstarter has something to lose by just letting any project through.
Edit: I can see how you could construe the goal in violation of the 'maintenance' bit. IMO there's a strong argument there. Still don't really see that much an ethical issue though.
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 11, 2012, 01:57:15 pm
But I think there's a separate ethical problem, about "why them and nobody else gets to ignore the rules set by Kickstarter itself".
This is my biggest deal. The way I see it, there are two kinds of kickstarters generally. There's the more common "I have an idea and want some money to start it from scratch kind" and then the "Here's what I've done, I need money to do more of it" kind. Doublefine Adventure or whatever it was called would be an example of the second kind. This pushes straight past the second into "We're popular, we'll do good things with the money. Trust us." All kickstarters benefit from popularity, but some put far more weight into their popularity than the actual value of their ideas, and the PA one is pretty much 100% popularity.
And I'm still bothered by the fact that they've been discussing and hyping kickstarter for some months to their fans, with the various kickstarter comics and blogging about kickstarter, and now they're funneling all that into getting money for themselves.
I mean, I guess you could argue that it's perfectly logical for them to use kickstarter since they like it so much, but the fact that they've made a kickstarter that's going to run nearly 100% on existing popularity and kickstarter hype rather than their ideas feels a little off. I'd be more understanding if it was a situation of "Hey, kickstarter is great for launching ideas so I'm going to launch my own off it" but that's not really what it looks like to me.
Post by: Draco18s on July 11, 2012, 02:05:15 pm
How are they ignoring the rules? Kickstarter cleared their project.
Doesn't mean someone didn't look closely enough.
Quote
They're offering rewards at the different payment levels.
Really? Really? Compare their actual reward levels to the comic they drew up making fun of Kickstarter. Their actual rewards are about as tangible is "satisfaction of having given me $25."
Quote
The project has a clear goal: remove ads for a year.
That. That... That isn't a project. :|
Post by: Karlito on July 11, 2012, 02:07:07 pm
But honestly, I don't see what all the excitement is about. This is going to have to get much bigger than 25,000 people before developers start making games for the platform, and the hardware doesn't seem like it's on par with modern consoles. It's sort of like people don't realize they can connect their PCs to a television.
Post by: Rose on July 11, 2012, 02:13:03 pm
Post by: Levi on July 11, 2012, 02:17:37 pm
But honestly, I don't see what all the excitement is about. This is going to have to get much bigger than 25,000 people before developers start making games for the platform, and the hardware doesn't seem like it's on par with modern consoles. It's sort of like people don't realize they can connect their PCs to a television.
Me neither. Although probably part of that is my innate hatred of the Free to play model that they seem so excited about. :P
Post by: Rose on July 11, 2012, 02:18:34 pm
Post by: Rez on July 11, 2012, 02:19:21 pm
Post by: Strange guy on July 11, 2012, 02:19:58 pm
So here we have a successful kickstarter for some sort of board/card game that looks decent. However the creator now thinks the sun is talking to her. That is certainly an interesting development. I've seen what apparently is her deviant art and there is more craziness, but I'm not going to encourage looking at everything about them like we sort of did with Your World because this looks like insanity rather than mere delusions.
Post by: Zangi on July 11, 2012, 02:23:56 pm
Time for a topic change maybe? The OUYA console (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ouya/ouya-a-new-kind-of-video-game-console) kickstarter exploded recently, they've already raised over $3 million. It looks to me like they're the 3rd most funded kickstarter ever and they've got 28 days to go even higher.The nice thing about consoles is that you don't have to worry if your console can play the game or not. Don't even have to update 3-4 years later either... For example, I'm still using my launch PS3...
But honestly, I don't see what all the excitement is about. This is going to have to get much bigger than 25,000 people before developers start making games for the platform, and the hardware doesn't seem like it's on par with modern consoles. It's sort of like people don't realize they can connect their PCs to a television.
They just have to get enough developers of all sorts in on it... There is quite a number of pledges for the +699/Developer stuff...
Post by: Draco18s on July 11, 2012, 02:37:14 pm
However the creator now thinks the sun is talking to her.
Da fuq?
Post by: Rez on July 11, 2012, 03:18:04 pm
Post by: nenjin on July 11, 2012, 03:25:01 pm
Post by: Scelly9 on July 11, 2012, 03:45:50 pm
She realized she didn't have enough cash so is faking insanity in order to keep the money. Or, she's actually insane.However the creator now thinks the sun is talking to her.
Da fuq?
Post by: AussieGuy on July 11, 2012, 08:40:51 pm
A Christian cartoon kickstarter. The main problem is that the trailer is made with Go! Animate and is hilariously bad.
Post by: Rez on July 11, 2012, 09:05:25 pm
Post by: Draco18s on July 11, 2012, 09:39:56 pm
I think the biggest problem is that someone pledged $6.66.
It's better than that.
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2yla5wh.png)
Post by: Rez on July 11, 2012, 09:41:56 pm
Post by: Knight of Fools on July 11, 2012, 10:39:01 pm
It's gone now, though.
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on July 11, 2012, 10:52:00 pm
It has more dislikes than views.
Post by: Knight of Fools on July 11, 2012, 10:55:14 pm
Quote
You dislike this video. Thanks for the feedback!
You're welcome.
Post by: Rez on July 11, 2012, 11:07:35 pm
Quote
The good life!
It'll make you feel so fresh and clean inside!
Advertisement for a douching product?
(http://sfist.com/attachments/SFist_Brock/lysol%20douche3.jpg)
Post by: Karlito on July 11, 2012, 11:12:07 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7GxDjoECR0
It has more dislikes than views.
The youtube view counter always stops around 300 for a new video that's getting a lot of views. There's some kind of process where they make sure people are actually watching the video and it's not just a bunch of bots.
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on July 11, 2012, 11:13:50 pm
Post by: MarcAFK on July 11, 2012, 11:55:12 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on July 12, 2012, 12:05:32 am
Yea, after 301 views, they start to take the View Count, for the lack of a better word, more seriously. So they start to verify/authenticate views from across all the local servers which the video is streamed and update the view count like once a day or so.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7GxDjoECR0
It has more dislikes than views.
The youtube view counter always stops around 300 for a new video that's getting a lot of views. There's some kind of process where they make sure people are actually watching the video and it's not just a bunch of bots.
I always thought Views were a live count, until the 301 thing started to happen.
----
Something that I've notice with crowd sourcing in general, is that religiously center projects just do very poorly.
So it should be a matter time before there a fundy version of crowd source sites for religious projects. Something lie godtube.com.
Post by: Rez on July 12, 2012, 12:23:32 am
Post by: Draco18s on July 12, 2012, 07:52:43 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7GxDjoECR0
It has more dislikes than views.
The youtube view counter always stops around 300 for a new video that's getting a lot of views. There's some kind of process where they make sure people are actually watching the video and it's not just a bunch of bots.
It's updated at this point, 4,267.
Post by: PTTG?? on July 13, 2012, 12:30:22 am
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1820893788/katalyka/posts/239764 (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1820893788/katalyka/posts/239764)
So here we have a successful kickstarter for some sort of board/card game that looks decent. However the creator now thinks the sun is talking to her. That is certainly an interesting development. I've seen what apparently is her deviant art and there is more craziness, but I'm not going to encourage looking at everything about them like we sort of did with Your World because this looks like insanity rather than mere delusions.
That's either genuine schizoid of some kind or a really, really good creative writing exercise.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 13, 2012, 12:43:38 am
Post by: MarcAFK on July 13, 2012, 06:45:40 am
I gotta say that game looked kinda cool to me too.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 13, 2012, 06:54:47 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 13, 2012, 07:28:08 am
Does anyone else that thats a topless picture of her for her kickstarter picture?I'm fairly certain that it is, yes.
Post by: Draco18s on July 13, 2012, 08:28:39 am
But obviously a real printing company could do it better and cheaper, even for only 100 copies.
A real printing company won't even talk to you for less than 1000 copies.
Post by: kaijyuu on July 13, 2012, 08:38:38 am
Post by: Draco18s on July 13, 2012, 09:36:10 am
I'm certain they would, provided you flashed enough cash. Gets exponentially more costly per book the less you print, but so long as they turn a profit :) Though yeah it could eat quite a bit more of the kickstarter's funds than probably expected.
No, I mean they seriously will not talk to you for less than a thousand. They won't even say "we don't do anything for less than a thousand." They simply won't reply to your email or phone message. This is from experience trying to get a quote on my group's own project back when we were looking at 3-500 copies of our game. Once we pushed over 700 and we were thinking a thousand copies and have extra, we started getting (some) replies.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 13, 2012, 05:21:55 pm
From the research I've done for a few projects, if you're under 1.5k copies, that its generally good to with Print on Demand services.
Post by: Willfor on July 13, 2012, 06:57:18 pm
I like it.
Post by: Rez on July 13, 2012, 09:59:45 pm
Oh? You're talking about the Sun like it's a person and that your card project is too close to reality so people are trying to stop you. Perfectly normal, how can we help you finish the project?
Post by: Megaman on July 13, 2012, 10:35:18 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on July 13, 2012, 11:22:59 pm
Post by: lordcooper on July 13, 2012, 11:37:24 pm
Her deviant art stuff is, fuckin out there. Like History Channel Expert out there.
Check out her Facebook page (linked to on the Kickstarter) if you think the dA stuff is weird. My favourite part is where she explains that Neil Gaiman is a woman.
Post by: Karlito on July 13, 2012, 11:40:24 pm
Post by: Realmfighter on July 13, 2012, 11:47:22 pm
It's like a mental sink. I can read her posts, and even though they are legitimately insane I get to, for a short amount of time just turn off my brain and enjoy the nonsense.
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 14, 2012, 12:38:40 am
Post by: Sensei on July 14, 2012, 01:22:34 am
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/avatars/1030627/fb_profile_picture.large.jpg?1308757569)Does anyone else that thats a topless picture of her for her kickstarter picture?I'm fairly certain that it is, yes.
And dare I say, not dreadfully attractive either. I'd even go so far as to say (and the toplessness of the picture is a contributing factor) that she even looks like someone who would think the sun is talking to them. Then again though, there's probably a pretty high rate of that among small board game projects anyway and there doesn't seem to be an epidemic of board game nerd mental breakdowns as far as I'm aware
Post by: MrWiggles on July 14, 2012, 01:49:49 am
Post by: lordcooper on July 14, 2012, 04:29:43 am
Post by: MrWiggles on July 14, 2012, 05:20:39 am
In more serious tone, to bad she lost touch with the world, as she quite the productive artist in a lot of different mediums.
She has a twitter account, and is very interested in Jupiter.
Post by: Superior_Tomato on July 14, 2012, 08:13:58 am
Post by: Draco18s on July 14, 2012, 09:51:08 am
Then again though, there's probably a pretty high rate of that among small board game projects anyway and there doesn't seem to be an epidemic of board game nerd mental breakdowns as far as I'm aware
Have I mentioned my group's newest game? Box of Knives!
Inspired by Movies, Box of Knives merges the fun of the
classic rpg, Russian Roulette, with the family fun of knives.
Providing you and your players with a genuine Box of Knives, this game
for 2-6 players allows you to experience the strategy and fun of
stabbing in your own living room.
What Critics are saying about Box Of Knives:
“Confusing and Eclectic!”
“Actually Dangerous!”
“No.”
Disclaimer: this is a joke project. But yes, the six of us are probably insane. The last time Box of Knives came up, we commented that taken out of context, we'd probably all get arrested.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 17, 2012, 01:19:16 pm
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2012/07/16/strip-search
Post by: Levi on July 17, 2012, 01:33:20 pm
So Gabe posted this about the kickstarter. Its apparently not about an 'ad-free PA'
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2012/07/16/strip-search
Ha! If that was true, then the first goal wouldn't be to remove ads.
Post by: RedKing on July 17, 2012, 01:57:37 pm
Yea Nakies! \o/Maybe it's Kickstarter as performance art?
In more serious tone, to bad she lost touch with the world, as she quite the productive artist in a lot of different mediums.
She has a twitter account, and is very interested in Jupiter.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 17, 2012, 05:54:51 pm
I agree, just letting you all know that he mentioned it.So Gabe posted this about the kickstarter. Its apparently not about an 'ad-free PA'
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2012/07/16/strip-search
Ha! If that was true, then the first goal wouldn't be to remove ads.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 17, 2012, 06:17:20 pm
In order to do these other projects, and to free up that time so that they can do these projects requires them to remove the ads from the site. So ad removable is important means to the ends.
Post by: Valid_Dark on July 17, 2012, 06:23:56 pm
And what happens if they fail to complete the project after it gets funded, do they have to give all the money back? what if they already spent it all trying to complete the project but only got it like 60% done, and now can't refund the money because it's all been spent?
Post by: Criptfeind on July 17, 2012, 06:27:48 pm
Post by: Valid_Dark on July 17, 2012, 08:41:53 pm
and lawsuits wouldn't come from this how?
Post by: Draco18s on July 17, 2012, 08:49:40 pm
wtf really?..... REALLY?
and lawsuits wouldn't come from this how?
Primarily because Kickstarter takes no responsibility for people not fulfilling their rewards. They have no way to monitor or enforce such a rule if they did, nor any way to verify claims.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 17, 2012, 11:33:30 pm
Post by: Rez on July 18, 2012, 12:38:31 am
Post by: Sensei on July 18, 2012, 01:04:17 am
Post by: Bdthemag on July 18, 2012, 01:29:29 am
Post by: MrWiggles on July 18, 2012, 02:18:58 am
And she was having printing issues, but the sun was upset at her board game because it resemble to much of reality.
Post by: sneakey pete on July 18, 2012, 02:42:32 am
So Gabe posted this about the kickstarter. Its apparently not about an 'ad-free PA'
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2012/07/16/strip-search
The first thing it says is that its "isn't just about an ad free PA."
You really, really didn't properly convey what was said in that article.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 18, 2012, 03:17:38 am
I wasn't trying to summarize the article, just to point out that he mentioned it. What exactly is your beef here? I'm not a new aggregation service obliged to provide you with a summary, I was just sharing a link.So Gabe posted this about the kickstarter. Its apparently not about an 'ad-free PA'
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2012/07/16/strip-search
The first thing it says is that its "isn't just about an ad free PA."
You really, really didn't properly convey what was said in that article.
Post by: Putnam on July 18, 2012, 03:56:56 am
I wasn't trying to summarize the article, just to point out that he mentioned it. What exactly is your beef here? I'm not a new aggregation service obliged to provide you with a summary, I was just sharing a link.So Gabe posted this about the kickstarter. Its apparently not about an 'ad-free PA'
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2012/07/16/strip-search
The first thing it says is that its "isn't just about an ad free PA."
You really, really didn't properly convey what was said in that article.
You omitted a very important word that makes the context and meaning of the sentence completely different.
Post by: Draco18s on July 18, 2012, 07:43:12 am
I wasn't trying to summarize the article, just to point out that he mentioned it. What exactly is your beef here? I'm not a new aggregation service obliged to provide you with a summary, I was just sharing a link.So Gabe posted this about the kickstarter. Its apparently not about an 'ad-free PA'
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2012/07/16/strip-search
The first thing it says is that its "isn't just about an ad free PA."
You really, really didn't properly convey what was said in that article.
You omitted a very important word that makes the context and meaning of the sentence completely different.
Starts with a J, ends with a T and has an US in the middle.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 18, 2012, 07:48:52 am
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on July 18, 2012, 08:08:02 am
jolybobbusidiboobit? i don't think that's even a word!I wasn't trying to summarize the article, just to point out that he mentioned it. What exactly is your beef here? I'm not a new aggregation service obliged to provide you with a summary, I was just sharing a link.So Gabe posted this about the kickstarter. Its apparently not about an 'ad-free PA'
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2012/07/16/strip-search
The first thing it says is that its "isn't just about an ad free PA."
You really, really didn't properly convey what was said in that article.
You omitted a very important word that makes the context and meaning of the sentence completely different.
Starts with a J, ends with a T and has an US in the middle.
Post by: alway on July 18, 2012, 09:55:28 am
wtf really?..... REALLY?Because it is a donation, not a purchase. Though I'll let my previous posts do the describing of it; no need to restate it again. :)
and lawsuits wouldn't come from this how?
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104759.msg3269078#msg3269078
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104759.msg3274752#msg3274752
Post by: kaenneth on July 18, 2012, 10:48:08 am
wtf really?..... REALLY?Because it is a donation, not a purchase. Though I'll let my previous posts do the describing of it; no need to restate it again. :)
and lawsuits wouldn't come from this how?
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104759.msg3269078#msg3269078
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104759.msg3274752#msg3274752
Soliciting 'donations' by fraud in still fraud. Plus, you can pretty much sue anyone for anything.
Post by: Draco18s on July 18, 2012, 11:00:30 am
Soliciting 'donations' by fraud in still fraud. Plus, you can pretty much sue anyone for anything.
Pretty much (http://theoatmeal.com/blog/funnyjunk_letter).
Post by: Rez on July 18, 2012, 10:35:41 pm
It's pretty cut and dry, imo. If it's not, kickstarter is probably liable and they would want to avoid that. Either the kickstarter is legally obligated to deliver or it isn't. If it isn't, then I doubt there's an easy case for fraud. I'm sure you can dig something up in US law that would let you litigate, but that can be said of everything.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 18, 2012, 10:49:34 pm
Post by: alway on July 18, 2012, 10:59:00 pm
http://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use
Relevant stuff:
Quote
The Estimated Delivery Date listed on each reward is not a promise to fulfill by that date, but is merely an estimate of when the Project Creator hopes to fulfill by.So they (kickstarter) do have the legal power to compel refunds. However, it is still left somewhat nebulous for a majority of the projects. Some rewards are cut and dry as to refund/no refund, but I would say most, particularly the 'pre-order' type rewards, are a bit more of a grey area in regards to quality. The one discussed most recently is, in fact, adequate grounds for demanding refunds. However, when it comes to software, one could throw together a command-line rpg in a day, call it the finished product, and give it to backers and probably be just fine legally. So while there is a guarantee you get something, it doesn't necessarily say it needs to be accurate to what it was advertised as.
Project Creators agree to make a good faith attempt to fulfill each reward by its Estimated Delivery Date.
Kickstarter does not offer refunds. A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer’s request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward.
Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.
Project Creators may cancel or refund a Backer’s pledge at any time and for any reason, and if they do so, are not required to fulfill the reward.
Still, it is a donation, not an investment or anything of that sort; it's like giving to a cancer fundraiser to get the free stereo for the $250 donation level or something similar to that.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 18, 2012, 11:02:04 pm
The lynch pin there, is 'in good faith'.
Like the HD glasses guy that their backers are getting ancy over. From their updates it seems they're making good faith attempts to get the product out of the door.
Post by: alway on July 18, 2012, 11:04:31 pm
I think that's as exact they can actually get.Their comments page had someone post this interesting link: http://mashable.com/2012/07/17/kickstarter-delivery-infographic/
The lynch pin there, is 'in good faith'.
Like the HD glasses guy that their backers are getting ancy over. From their updates it seems they're making good faith attempts to get the product out of the door.
Another interesting line though from the TOS:
Quote
“All dealings are solely between Users. Kickstarter is under no obligation to become involved in disputes between any Users, or between Users and any third party. This includes, but is not limited to, delivery of goods and services, and any other terms, conditions, warranties, or representations associated with campaigns on the Site. Kickstarter does not oversee the performance or punctuality of projects.”Which means Kickstarter actually won't get involved in disputes over rewards; court would be the only recourse, and unless you gave $10k or something, wouldn't be anywhere near worth the hassle and legal costs to pursue.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 18, 2012, 11:12:39 pm
So yea, poor estimations + little pressure to release = delays.
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 18, 2012, 11:21:59 pm
Post by: ggamer on July 18, 2012, 11:26:32 pm
and look what I found.
Spoiler: Spoilered because OHGODWHY (click to show/hide)
BURN THE WITCH.
In all seriousness, she wouldn't look too out of place at the annual meeting of the fucking crazy.
Post by: lemon10 on July 19, 2012, 12:27:49 am
I seem to remember Kickstarter going after someone once (a film student who didn't do with the money what he said he would do).I think that's as exact they can actually get.Their comments page had someone post this interesting link: http://mashable.com/2012/07/17/kickstarter-delivery-infographic/
The lynch pin there, is 'in good faith'.
Like the HD glasses guy that their backers are getting ancy over. From their updates it seems they're making good faith attempts to get the product out of the door.
Another interesting line though from the TOS:Quote“All dealings are solely between Users. Kickstarter is under no obligation to become involved in disputes between any Users, or between Users and any third party. This includes, but is not limited to, delivery of goods and services, and any other terms, conditions, warranties, or representations associated with campaigns on the Site. Kickstarter does not oversee the performance or punctuality of projects.”Which means Kickstarter actually won't get involved in disputes over rewards; court would be the only recourse, and unless you gave $10k or something, wouldn't be anywhere near worth the hassle and legal costs to pursue.
I don't know what exactly what it would do if one of the big million dollar projects failed, but I think (although they are not obligated to do so), that they would go after them legally if at all possible if only to protect the integrity of the Kickstarter brand.
Post by: Flare on July 19, 2012, 04:12:35 am
However, when it comes to software, one could throw together a command-line rpg in a day, call it the finished product, and give it to backers and probably be just fine legally.
Maybe within the letter of the law, but in cases like these judges often use their discretion. They're not exactly idiots and can often tell when a party has been shafted by another, even when it's technically within the letter of the law.
Post by: Draco18s on July 19, 2012, 07:57:51 am
I think that's as exact they can actually get.Their comments page had someone post this interesting link: http://mashable.com/2012/07/17/kickstarter-delivery-infographic/
The lynch pin there, is 'in good faith'.
Like the HD glasses guy that their backers are getting ancy over. From their updates it seems they're making good faith attempts to get the product out of the door.
Overfunding generally means "met stretch goals" and those stretch goals take time to produce, and that time hasn't been factored into the estimated delivery date.
Speaking about my project (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=99825) in particular, our base goal did not include publishing our game and having it professionally printed. Even at our stretch goal, we made our delivery date on the expectation that we'd be using a print-on-demand service (Game Crafter) which would have allowed us to ship sooner.
But we were so successful that we added a large portion to our plate of things to do, as well as getting a publishing deal. And that is taking longer to negotiate out and nail down that even our wildest expectations. Outside, we estimated late August for delivery, and I'm beginning to doubt that we'll have it out by October.
Still, progress is being made, and the results will be well worth the wait.
Post by: Skyrunner on July 19, 2012, 08:08:42 am
I'm sorry I missed it :P
Post by: MrWiggles on July 19, 2012, 08:59:51 am
Post by: Draco18s on July 19, 2012, 09:25:31 am
That game looks fun. o.O
I'm sorry I missed it :P
Send us an email/message (or a PM here) and we'll put you on the list of people to notify of when we have stock.
Post by: GreatJustice on July 19, 2012, 01:38:00 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7GxDjoECR0
It has more dislikes than views.
I made the 666th dislike 8)
Post by: MrWiggles on July 21, 2012, 04:48:11 am
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1964352341/shadowrun-online
They're fairly aware of the single player game.
The thing that I'm finding it curious is in its FAQs, talks about the OUYA console. This seems so weird.
Post by: Draco18s on July 21, 2012, 09:35:02 am
Shadowrun MMO Kickstarter
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1964352341/shadowrun-online
They're fairly aware of the single player game.
Uh. Of course they're aware of the single player game. Have you not been to http://www.shadowrun.com/ ?
The campaign for SRR talked about the MMO several times, even. There were questions over whether the two games overlapped (they do not, SRR is in 2050, SRO is 2070) and whether or not the two teams would collaborate to create connected stories (ah la the kind of connection the table top game had with Earthdawn, the answer is "maybe"), hell, SRR even advertised the MMO via Kickstarter update: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1613260297/shadowrun-returns/posts/270143
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 25, 2012, 06:05:27 am
Shadowrun MMO KickstarterI'm not touching that with a $10 pole. Niche MMO's don't have the best track record.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1964352341/shadowrun-online
They're fairly aware of the single player game.
The thing that I'm finding it curious is in its FAQs, talks about the OUYA console. This seems so weird.
Post by: Draco18s on July 25, 2012, 07:55:17 am
I'm not touching that with a $10 pole. Niche MMO's don't have the best track record.
Shadowrun isn't niche. It's the most popular role playing game franchise in the world--behind D&D.
From wikipedia:
The original game has spawned a vast franchise that includes a collectible card game, two miniature-based wargames, multiple video games, a series of novels and music. From its inception in 1989, it has remained among the most popular role-playing games.
SRO is being made by people who want to make a game that embodies the core experience that is Shadowrun: teaming up with a handful of other people and sticking it to The Man, all just to pay rent. Oh, and maybe have a firefight with some hellhounds and a toxic waste spirit before jumping off the roof of a 400 story building and escaping on little more than a home-made parachute.
They're doing it the only way they know how.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 25, 2012, 08:11:11 am
That may very well be, but it's still a niche pen and paper setting and I have little hope of it actually being widespread or successful. I would love to be wrong, but I'm certainly not dropping money on it.I'm not touching that with a $10 pole. Niche MMO's don't have the best track record.
Shadowrun isn't niche. It's the most popular role playing game franchise in the world--behind D&D.
From wikipedia:
The original game has spawned a vast franchise that includes a collectible card game, two miniature-based wargames, multiple video games, a series of novels and music. From its inception in 1989, it has remained among the most popular role-playing games.
SRO is being made by people who want to make a game that embodies the core experience that is Shadowrun: teaming up with a handful of other people and sticking it to The Man, all just to pay rent. Oh, and maybe have a firefight with some hellhounds and a toxic waste spirit before jumping off the roof of a 400 story building and escaping on little more than a home-made parachute.
They're doing it the only way they know how.
Post by: Draco18s on July 25, 2012, 10:56:05 am
That may very well be, but it's still a niche pen and paper setting and I have little hope of it actually being widespread or successful. I would love to be wrong, but I'm certainly not dropping money on it.
I'm not asking you to drop money on it, I'm just trying to point out that it's not an inherently flawed Kickstarter.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 25, 2012, 10:57:11 am
I didn't say it was... all I said in the post was that I wasn't going to put any money into it, and that I didn't think projects like this have a good history.That may very well be, but it's still a niche pen and paper setting and I have little hope of it actually being widespread or successful. I would love to be wrong, but I'm certainly not dropping money on it.
I'm not asking you to drop money on it, I'm just trying to point out that it's not an inherently flawed Kickstarter.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 25, 2012, 01:15:37 pm
Post by: lordcooper on July 25, 2012, 01:20:33 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on July 25, 2012, 01:22:43 pm
Do we have a responability to link to their last crowd sourcing attempt on their new one, or would that be just a dick move?
Post by: lordcooper on July 25, 2012, 01:24:55 pm
Post by: Fniff on July 25, 2012, 01:26:03 pm
Seriously, the computer generated voice and everything is just... wow. Great how the scene changes every second and the thing keeps making hand gestures.
Post by: lordcooper on July 25, 2012, 01:33:04 pm
http://www.yourworldinc.com/
Post by: nenjin on July 25, 2012, 01:37:11 pm
Hrm...
Do we have a responability to link to their last crowd sourcing attempt on their new one, or would that be just a dick move?
Bucky is back, bitches!
Post by: Draco18s on July 25, 2012, 03:10:48 pm
Click for hilarity (http://yourworld.yourworldinc.com/user/Discussion.aspx?id=339135)
Da fuq did I just watch?
Ow, my brainpan. >..x
Post by: SirAaronIII on July 25, 2012, 03:23:01 pm
Heheheh, "which is in 3D". He sure seems dead-set on reminding us all that it'll be 3D.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 25, 2012, 03:25:27 pm
Post by: Draco18s on July 25, 2012, 03:26:08 pm
What does he mean by 3D anyway?
Probably hookerbot's cup size.
Also:
Sadface, I can no longer buy me an "I <3 Hookerbot" thong.
Post by: Jacob/Lee on July 27, 2012, 02:11:50 pm
Ah, yes, this makes more sense. It's just more bullshit. Maybe I need to get my brain checked one of these days.
Post by: Zangi on July 27, 2012, 02:17:55 pm
Question is not relevant anymore.
Post by: lordcooper on July 27, 2012, 02:18:20 pm
http://cake-slice.tumblr.com/post/27915766849/opinionatedwiley-whyisfeminismathing
This woman recieved $200,000 for some kind of "research" on Kickstarter, then went and spent it on games. I can't seem to find the kickstarter itself, though.
Yeah, you can cut that out.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118310-Flash-Game-Makes-Players-Beat-Up-Tropes-vs-Women-Creator
This is just more of the shit that people are trying to fling her way.
Post by: Jacob/Lee on July 27, 2012, 02:33:54 pm
All right, this makes more sense. I kept looking and looking but nothing made sense, the picture, the comments and the Kickstarter seemed to be different. Thank ye for clearing that horrible misinterpretation up.http://cake-slice.tumblr.com/post/27915766849/opinionatedwiley-whyisfeminismathing
This woman recieved $200,000 for some kind of "research" on Kickstarter, then went and spent it on games. I can't seem to find the kickstarter itself, though.
Yeah, you can cut that out.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118310-Flash-Game-Makes-Players-Beat-Up-Tropes-vs-Women-Creator
This is just more of the shit that people are trying to fling her way.
Post by: Detonate on July 27, 2012, 02:38:31 pm
Post by: Sensei on July 27, 2012, 02:39:56 pm
Post by: nenjin on July 27, 2012, 02:41:47 pm
So, any bets on where Bartlett will take Your World for funding next? Or why he's still bent on getting funding when he's sitting on millions and hasn't spent any of that money on professional marketing?
My guess is nowhere. Maybe IndieGoGo, if he hasn't already tried. But it's pretty clear he's a cheap ass who isn't even willing to spend the right amount of money on his OWN ideas to get them sold.
Either that or no professional will accept money from him, in exchange for ruining their professional reputation. :D
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 27, 2012, 02:43:28 pm
http://cake-slice.tumblr.com/post/27915766849/opinionatedwiley-whyisfeminismathing
This woman recieved $200,000 for some kind of "research" on Kickstarter, then went and spent it on games. I can't seem to find the kickstarter itself, though.
Yeah, you can cut that out.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118310-Flash-Game-Makes-Players-Beat-Up-Tropes-vs-Women-Creator
This is just more of the shit that people are trying to fling her way.
I find this especially funny because if she didn't actually play a ton of video games to research her videos, I guarantee people would be going "How does she even know what she's talking about? It's not like she actually played any of the video games she's featuring."
Post by: Draco18s on July 27, 2012, 02:46:50 pm
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/219812386/mysteries-of-bosnian-pyramids-i-road-to-recognitio-0?ref=search Featuring 1 character, an AMAZING 3 levels with 3 sub levels for a total of 9! Weapons include knive sord chain gang and lazar!!! Fight dangrus beast like giant bug!! Collect energy balls To prevent End of Worrld. Save palnet be super heroe. Get Kill enemies like zombie and Gohst Brought to you by Bosnian famous arkaelogist Semir Sam Osmanaigh discoverer of famuz pyramid in Bosnia. They ar not hills but REAL pyramid buried under hill
Da fuq?
Post by: Aklyon on July 27, 2012, 02:47:06 pm
Is he still going with that?So, any bets on where Bartlett will take Your World for funding next? Or why he's still bent on getting funding when he's sitting on millions and hasn't spent any of that money on professional marketing?
My guess is nowhere. Maybe IndieGoGo, if he hasn't already tried. But it's pretty clear he's a cheap ass who isn't even willing to spend the right amount of money on his OWN ideas to get them sold.
Either that or no professional will accept money from him, in exchange for ruining their professional reputation. :D
Post by: Levi on July 27, 2012, 02:52:15 pm
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/219812386/mysteries-of-bosnian-pyramids-i-road-to-recognitio-0?ref=search Featuring 1 character, an AMAZING 3 levels with 3 sub levels for a total of 9! Weapons include knive sord chain gang and lazar!!! Fight dangrus beast like giant bug!! Collect energy balls To prevent End of Worrld. Save palnet be super heroe. Get Kill enemies like zombie and Gohst Brought to you by Bosnian famous arkaelogist Semir Sam Osmanaigh discoverer of famuz pyramid in Bosnia. They ar not hills but REAL pyramid buried under hill
Haha, amazing. This HAS to be a troll.
Quote
On the last level you'll fight the most difficult enemy to defeat - giant bug! Your weapon to defeat this enemy is laser. But initail power of laser is weak. Laser gets enough power to kill when you collect all items.
Post by: Draco18s on July 27, 2012, 02:55:29 pm
Is he still going with that?
Yup.
Post by: Detonate on July 27, 2012, 02:59:49 pm
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/219812386/mysteries-of-bosnian-pyramids-i-road-to-recognitio-0?ref=search Featuring 1 character, an AMAZING 3 levels with 3 sub levels for a total of 9! Weapons include knive sord chain gang and lazar!!! Fight dangrus beast like giant bug!! Collect energy balls To prevent End of Worrld. Save palnet be super heroe. Get Kill enemies like zombie and Gohst Brought to you by Bosnian famous arkaelogist Semir Sam Osmanaigh discoverer of famuz pyramid in Bosnia. They ar not hills but REAL pyramid buried under hill
Haha, amazing. This HAS to be a troll.QuoteOn the last level you'll fight the most difficult enemy to defeat - giant bug! Your weapon to defeat this enemy is laser. But initail power of laser is weak. Laser gets enough power to kill when you collect all items.
Semir is real and he is a prominent (read: only) supporter of the Bosnian Pyramid theory. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_pyramids#Osmanagi.C4.87.27s_interpretation) I can see him doing thus for attention.
e: I like how Serbia is "Seabia" on the map.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 27, 2012, 04:59:13 pm
Post by: Valid_Dark on July 27, 2012, 08:32:05 pm
http://cake-slice.tumblr.com/post/27915766849/opinionatedwiley-whyisfeminismathing
This woman recieved $200,000 for some kind of "research" on Kickstarter, then went and spent it on games. I can't seem to find the kickstarter itself, though.
Yeah, you can cut that out.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118310-Flash-Game-Makes-Players-Beat-Up-Tropes-vs-Women-Creator
This is just more of the shit that people are trying to fling her way.
I find this especially funny because if she didn't actually play a ton of video games to research her videos, I guarantee people would be going "How does she even know what she's talking about? It's not like she actually played any of the video games she's featuring."
Well, she took that $150,000 she got from kickstarter, and apparently bought every game system
and is buying a boat load of games.
Spoiler: proof (click to show/hide)
She says all these games are for "Research" for her videos.
Looking at that picture I can say I'm pretty sure a good amount of those games don't have stereotypical female characters,
Like there is borderlands, where the only female characters I can remember is the siren, who is one of the playable characters and can hold her own against the male characters, and the head scientist whose journals you find is a girl, showing that girls can be smart and stuff. NOT a sexist game in the least.
And Crackdown, as far as I can remember there aren't any females in the game at all, but maybe i'm just not remembering right.
Skate and Skate 2, male characters and female characters are EXACTLY the same in those games, and gender makes no difference on your character other than appearance.
I think she just wanted to build a giant game collection with other peoples money.
Post by: lordcooper on July 27, 2012, 08:35:54 pm
Besides, gotta look at both sides of the coin, right?
Post by: Criptfeind on July 27, 2012, 08:37:56 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on July 27, 2012, 08:38:34 pm
Post by: Valid_Dark on July 27, 2012, 08:38:40 pm
Valid_Dark, would you be happier if she only focused on the negatives? Really? You don't think people would claim she was being biased?
Well isn't that what her little show is about?
Post by: MrWiggles on July 27, 2012, 08:39:32 pm
Is anyone else getting a sense of hostility from Valid Dark toward her?Valid_Dark, would you be happier if she only focused on the negatives? Really? You don't think people would claim she was being biased?
Well isn't that what her little show is about?
Post by: lordcooper on July 27, 2012, 08:41:03 pm
Post by: SealyStar on July 27, 2012, 08:41:38 pm
http://cake-slice.tumblr.com/post/27915766849/opinionatedwiley-whyisfeminismathing
This woman recieved $200,000 for some kind of "research" on Kickstarter, then went and spent it on games. I can't seem to find the kickstarter itself, though.
Yeah, you can cut that out.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118310-Flash-Game-Makes-Players-Beat-Up-Tropes-vs-Women-Creator
This is just more of the shit that people are trying to fling her way.
You have to admit, while I definitely don't approve of extreme stuff like murder and rape threats, or misogynous/anti-Semitic slurs, she kind of deserves a lot more criticism than she gets.
She says "I n33d 6 th0uzand do77arz of l00tz 2 sh0 y v1d3o g@emz are s3xi5t lol", and gets $160,000 (last I checked) by exploiting the Friedan effect and playing the victim card.
This is the biggest part of my problem with Sarkeesian, but the other is jealousy. I mean, I'm sure you all must have thought, "Hey, she's a goddamn genius for suckering people out of their money like this".
EDIT: Reading between the lines on the specific post I'm quoting, I just realized that a lot of people here, too, are falling for this goddamn Friedan/victim card effect. Hated=/=good. Well, now I am dead set on that "victim card" scheme of my own...
Post by: lordcooper on July 27, 2012, 08:45:15 pm
Kinda expected better than this on Bay12 :-\
Post by: MrWiggles on July 27, 2012, 08:45:59 pm
Again why the hostility? She made her proposal rather clear, so there no reason to bastardized it like that with the leet speak. And I dont see why or how she played the victim card. And her thesis is on woman in video games, in order to conduct said research you need a lot of video game materiel to digest. Know, playing them is certainly one way to do this.http://cake-slice.tumblr.com/post/27915766849/opinionatedwiley-whyisfeminismathing
This woman recieved $200,000 for some kind of "research" on Kickstarter, then went and spent it on games. I can't seem to find the kickstarter itself, though.
Yeah, you can cut that out.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118310-Flash-Game-Makes-Players-Beat-Up-Tropes-vs-Women-Creator
This is just more of the shit that people are trying to fling her way.
You have to admit, while I definitely don't approve of extreme stuff like murder and rape threats, or misogynous/anti-Semitic slurs, she kind of deserves a lot more criticism than she gets.
She says "I n33d 6 th0uzand do77arz of l00tz 2 sh0 y v1d3o g@emz are s3xi5t lol", and gets $160,000 (last I checked) by exploiting the Friedan effect and playing the victim card.
This is the biggest part of my problem with Sarkeesian, but the other is jealousy. I mean, I'm sure you all must have thought, "Hey, she's a goddamn genius for suckering people out of their money like this".
I dont see how this is just a scam to get a lot of video games.
Post by: Realmfighter on July 27, 2012, 08:48:04 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on July 27, 2012, 08:51:27 pm
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on July 27, 2012, 08:53:21 pm
i think it's too much money. i agree with her motivations, and wished her to suceed, maybe triple her kickstarter goals, but it irks me more than a bit that so much money was thrown her way just to piss off some trolls. and frankly, giving a bajillion dollars to a random person nobody heard of to make a bunch of youtube videos? i'm certain there are many people that worked years in the area and are much more knowable than her, and could certainly put that money to better uses
not that i blame her for it, for all that i know she may feel the same way. she didn't ask for this much money
now on to the specific subject at hand
her hypothesis is that women are portrayed stereotypically and unfavourably in video games more often than not. to make a statistic to validate her claim she has to analyse a representative sample, not pick and choose only those that apply, for all we know she may have bought an entire game store inventory. besides, having a few examples of how things should be done would just add to her argumentValid_Dark, would you be happier if she only focused on the negatives? Really? You don't think people would claim she was being biased?
Well isn't that what her little show is about?
E:it was the subject at hand, 7 replies ago, when i started typing
Post by: MrWiggles on July 27, 2012, 08:57:38 pm
before i start i'll state my position upfrontEmphasis mine. Isnt this the point of the crowd sourcing model for founding? That you dont need to have proir experience or even proof of concept, just toss your idea out there and present it well, and see if you can get funded? And her video series are not entirely unknown, but they aren't common knowledge.
i think it's too much money. i agree with her motivations, and wished her to suceed, maybe triple her kickstarter goals, but it irks me more than a bit that so much money was thrown her way just to piss off some trolls. and frankly, giving a bajillion dollars to a random person nobody heard of to make a bunch of youtube videos?
Post by: SealyStar on July 27, 2012, 08:59:23 pm
Quote
And I dont see why or how she played the victim card.
Most feminists are perfectly sane individuals, who I agree with completely. It's the insane, "oppression and sexualization", branch, that Sarkeesian seems to be pandering to, which I hate, in no small part due to the fact that 99% of their arguments as a whole come from playing the victim card. Saying that because women are mistreated around the world, they deserve special voices and protections. But I don't want to derail this into a discussion on feminism as a whole, so I'll just tell you how I think Sarkeesian is playing the card.
It cannot be a coincidence that Sarkeesian only found massive, widespread success on Kickstarter after all the violent, misogynous, and anti-Semitic rants written against her. The "Streisand effect" here is the natural response of people to attempts to disrupt her project, and, while I despise this dark side of human psychology, it is not Sarkeesian's fault. But it seems to me like she and her supporters constantly, if not very actively, spread the word about all the negative comments, hoping to force-Streisand it, or, in my opinion, "play the victim card".
Post by: Draco18s on July 27, 2012, 09:06:34 pm
Most feminists are perfectly sane individuals
How to know if you're a feminist, take this quiz:
1) Are you a woman?
2) Do you care about woman's rights?
If you answered "yes" to both of these questions, you're a feminist.
;)
Post by: MrWiggles on July 27, 2012, 09:08:27 pm
For your suppose point to be true would be if they would had to have actively adverted the project in communities where it would have received strong negative response or that the supporters were adverting it more so with sobs tails then the hate wagon was doing on its own.
Post by: Zangi on July 27, 2012, 09:12:46 pm
Tin foil conspiracy is what it sounds like to me...
(Oh, Married with Children.... one of the best shows ever of my childhood...)
Post by: SealyStar on July 27, 2012, 09:13:30 pm
Most feminists are perfectly sane individuals
How to know if you're a feminist, take this quiz:
1) Are you a woman?
2) Do you care about woman's rights?
If you answered "yes" to both of these questions, you're a feminist.
;)
a). I love this irony, that we need total gender inequality, but only women can be feminists. >_>
b). But otherwise, that's exactly right. 99% of people who support women's rights are perfectly sane (even if not all identify as feminists). But then you have the other side, the 1%, where all society becomes a disgusting, patriarchal, phallic-symbol-filled wasteland, where all women are innocent victims and all men might as well be rapists.
Post by: Zangi on July 27, 2012, 09:21:39 pm
Looking at the definition of misogyny, probably not accurate for most men relating to the backlash...
"misogyny is a cultural attitude of hatred for females because they are female."
So it seems to just mean hating females for just being female...
Post by: Draco18s on July 27, 2012, 09:24:28 pm
a). I love this irony, that we need total gender inequality, but only women can be feminists. >_>
b). But otherwise, that's exactly right. 99% of people who support women's rights are perfectly sane (even if not all identify as feminists). But then you have the other side, the 1%, where all society becomes a disgusting, patriarchal, phallic-symbol-filled wasteland, where all women are innocent victims and all men might as well be rapists.
I don't remember where I heard that little ... quote, so I was simply repeating it (I went looking for a source, couldn't find one).
But yes, men can be feminists too, I suppose.
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on July 27, 2012, 09:27:46 pm
Emphasis mine. Isnt this the point of the crowd sourcing model for founding? That you dont need to have proir experience or even proof of concept, just toss your idea out there and present it well, and see if you can get funded?yeah, and you get $6000 maybe $20000... $160000 just seems awfully wasteful for this kind of project, and even a bit unfair for all those who have been doing this type of thing for years with a fraction of the success
b). But otherwise, that's exactly right. 99% of people who support women's rights are perfectly sane (even if not all identify as feminists). But then you have the other side, the 1%, where all society becomes a disgusting, patriarchal, phallic-symbol-filled wasteland, where all women are innocent victims and all men might as well be rapists.i disagree with this. most people of any subset or subculture are unreasonable. percentages may vary, but i doubt that in any group reasonableness is prevalent
although i recognise and share many feminist views(being a militant of a leftist party whose core ideals revolve around feminism and lgbt rights), from personal experience i think i can assert safely that the amount of sexist feminists that claim all men are bastards and should be second class citizens to women is much higher than 1 percent of the movement. if i had to risk a guess i'd say 10 to 15 percent
Post by: SealyStar on July 27, 2012, 09:28:40 pm
Looking at the definition of misogyny, probably not accurate for most men relating to the backlash...
"misogyny is a cultural attitude of hatred for females because they are female."
So it seems to just mean hating females for just being female...
To be honest, that was kind of what it was. Not quite that narrowly defined, but similar.
Post by: Draco18s on July 27, 2012, 09:30:50 pm
[Pixel Tribe] returning soon..ish!!
Is that a recent update to your sig?
Post by: SealyStar on July 27, 2012, 09:34:38 pm
i disagree with this. most people of any subset or subculture are unreasonable. percentages may vary, but i doubt that in any group reasonableness is prevalent
although i recognise and share many feminist views(being a militant of a leftist party whose core ideals revolve around feminism and lgbt rights), from personal experience i think i can assert safely that the amount of sexist feminists that claim all men are bastards and should be second class citizens to women is much higher than 1 percent of the movement. if i had to risk a guess i'd say 10 to 15 percent
Wow. I actually specifically said "1%" as a low guess, because I was afraid that even that would seem too large, and that people would falsely accuse me of being a right-wing anti-feminist type. But if a leftist feminist (who, no offense intended, will probably be subconsciously biased, and thus slightly apologetic) would guess 10-15% , then I'm scared of what the real number must be.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 27, 2012, 09:39:16 pm
Fairness is unquantifiable. Crowd Souring doesnt have any mechanics to find the best person to execute the project. So even if there were 4 folks trying to do the same project, it'd be almost happenstance who actually got the funding. What those 4 folks could do to bolster their donators are, technically avaliable to all of them.Emphasis mine. Isnt this the point of the crowd sourcing model for founding? That you dont need to have proir experience or even proof of concept, just toss your idea out there and present it well, and see if you can get funded?yeah, and you get $6000 maybe $20000... $160000 just seems awfully wasteful for this kind of project, and even a bit unfair for all those who have been doing this type of thing for years with a fraction of the success
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on July 27, 2012, 09:48:41 pm
not that recent, no... but i'm too attached to it to let it go[Pixel Tribe] returning soon..ish!!
Is that a recent update to your sig?
it might return as a python game before it returns as a forum game, but i'm still in the process of learning python as of yet
it's not a kickstarter gone wrong yet though
i don't think i'm being that apologetic. there's a fair bit of socially acceptable misandry among those circles, and by socially acceptable i mean you can't really call it out without causing a bit of a shitstorm, and those 85-90% won't rush in your defence either, and although it hasn't managed to turn me away from *the cause*, it has left me a bit bitteri disagree with this. most people of any subset or subculture are unreasonable. percentages may vary, but i doubt that in any group reasonableness is prevalent
although i recognise and share many feminist views(being a militant of a leftist party whose core ideals revolve around feminism and lgbt rights), from personal experience i think i can assert safely that the amount of sexist feminists that claim all men are bastards and should be second class citizens to women is much higher than 1 percent of the movement. if i had to risk a guess i'd say 10 to 15 percent
Wow. I actually specifically said "1%" as a low guess, because I was afraid that even that would seem too large, and that people would falsely accuse me of being a right-wing anti-feminist type. But if a leftist feminist (who, no offense intended, will probably be subconsciously biased, and thus slightly apologetic) would guess 10-15% , then I'm scared of what the real number must be.
but things are not *that* bad. what i'm trying to say is, there is merit in the movement and the causes are worth furthering, but people are shit everywhere
Post by: Draco18s on July 27, 2012, 09:51:14 pm
not that recent, no... but i'm too attached to it to let it go[Pixel Tribe] returning soon..ish!!
Is that a recent update to your sig?
it might return as a python game before it returns as a forum game, but i'm still in the process of learning python as of yet
it's not a kickstarter gone wrong yet though
Isn't, but I just happened to see it here, and I eagerly await its return.
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on July 27, 2012, 09:57:05 pm
Post by: Draco18s on July 27, 2012, 10:00:37 pm
thanks, that filled me with joy, and leaves me eager to return to it
:)
Started up my own (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113865) recently. Just text though. I don't have the patience or skill for art.
Post by: Sensei on July 28, 2012, 01:06:48 am
Post by: Willfor on July 28, 2012, 01:29:35 am
Post by: MrWiggles on July 28, 2012, 01:35:00 am
The "too big" argument is disingenuous from the outset. People gave up to that amount willingly out of their own pocket and it was much, much, much, much, much greater than the asked-for amount. Please cease and desist this logical inconsistency that several haters have picked up as a flagship piece of their argument against this project around the internet. There is absolutely no such thing as too big in this case, as literally everyone who donated was given the option of not doing so. People wanted this, and so it will be done.Hrm... thats very interesting.
Post by: Sensei on July 28, 2012, 01:50:45 am
Judging from wiki, it looks like this Semir character is really, truly, that crazy. He says that his goal is to complete excavation of the pyramids and thus "break a cloud of negative energy, allowing the Earth to receive cosmic energy from the centre of the galaxy". Yeah. As I read the wiki, I thought he might just be hell-bent on making a big archaeological discovery for himself, but no... he's outright fucking nuts.http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/219812386/mysteries-of-bosnian-pyramids-i-road-to-recognitio-0?ref=search Featuring 1 character, an AMAZING 3 levels with 3 sub levels for a total of 9! Weapons include knive sord chain gang and lazar!!! Fight dangrus beast like giant bug!! Collect energy balls To prevent End of Worrld. Save palnet be super heroe. Get Kill enemies like zombie and Gohst Brought to you by Bosnian famous arkaelogist Semir Sam Osmanaigh discoverer of famuz pyramid in Bosnia. They ar not hills but REAL pyramid buried under hill
Haha, amazing. This HAS to be a troll.QuoteOn the last level you'll fight the most difficult enemy to defeat - giant bug! Your weapon to defeat this enemy is laser. But initail power of laser is weak. Laser gets enough power to kill when you collect all items.
Semir is real and he is a prominent (read: only) supporter of the Bosnian Pyramid theory. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_pyramids#Osmanagi.C4.87.27s_interpretation) I can see him doing thus for attention.
e: I like how Serbia is "Seabia" on the map.
He's also not a native English speaker, which mostly explains the abominable grammar on his kickstarter. As for why on earth he didn't just hire a native English speaker to translate or at least proofread? Well, see point number one, individual is fucking nuts.
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on July 28, 2012, 04:21:54 am
The "too big" argument is disingenuous from the outset. People gave up to that amount willingly out of their own pocket and it was much, much, much, much, much greater than the asked-for amount. Please cease and desist this logical inconsistency that several haters have picked up as a flagship piece of their argument against this project around the internet. There is absolutely no such thing as too big in this case, as literally everyone who donated was given the option of not doing so. People wanted this, and so it will be done.i'm not sure if that's directed at me or not, but i do not identify with the word hater, and feel that reply(if it is a reply to my posts) kind of misses my point. i am not opposed to this project at all, and as i stated before, i'm perfectly aware that this girl didn't ask for this much money, and even if she doest feel comfortable with so much funding there's not really much she can do about it. if anybody is at fault here, besides the bullies that harassed her, are the people who pledged so much just to spite the trolls, but i can't really blame these either because i myself felt an urge to contribute after witnessing the abuse she endured
i'm not using this as an argument against her or against her project, just stating how i feel about it.
Post by: DJ on July 28, 2012, 10:25:10 am
He's also not a native English speaker, which mostly explains the abominable grammar on his kickstarter. As for why on earth he didn't just hire a native English speaker to translate or at least proofread?The sad thing is that he lived in USA for years.
Oh, and he's crazier than you think. On one of the "pyramids" there's a genuine archaeological site, an early medieval settlement, and he's destroying it with his excavations.
Post by: SealyStar on July 28, 2012, 10:56:02 am
He's also not a native English speaker, which mostly explains the abominable grammar on his kickstarter. As for why on earth he didn't just hire a native English speaker to translate or at least proofread?The sad thing is that he lived in USA for years.
Oh, and he's crazier than you think. On one of the "pyramids" there's a genuine archaeological site, an early medieval settlement, and he's destroying it with his excavations.
1. That's insane.
2. He's still living in the US. According to Wikipedia he lives in Houston, where he owns a metalworking business.
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 28, 2012, 03:03:36 pm
i disagree with this. most people of any subset or subculture are unreasonable. percentages may vary, but i doubt that in any group reasonableness is prevalent
although i recognise and share many feminist views(being a militant of a leftist party whose core ideals revolve around feminism and lgbt rights), from personal experience i think i can assert safely that the amount of sexist feminists that claim all men are bastards and should be second class citizens to women is much higher than 1 percent of the movement. if i had to risk a guess i'd say 10 to 15 percent
Wow. I actually specifically said "1%" as a low guess, because I was afraid that even that would seem too large, and that people would falsely accuse me of being a right-wing anti-feminist type. But if a leftist feminist (who, no offense intended, will probably be subconsciously biased, and thus slightly apologetic) would guess 10-15% , then I'm scared of what the real number must be.
I think you undersestimate the number of left-wing douchebags who basically think "I'm pro choice and stuff, that means I can call anyone who wants more than that a crazy feminist bitch." See: Reddit, pretty much in its entirety.
Post by: kaijyuu on July 28, 2012, 03:09:54 pm
Post by: lordcooper on July 28, 2012, 03:11:35 pm
Post by: kaijyuu on July 28, 2012, 03:12:59 pm
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 28, 2012, 03:21:56 pm
Post by: lordcooper on July 28, 2012, 04:25:18 pm
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 28, 2012, 04:31:52 pm
Post by: UltraValican on July 28, 2012, 05:53:41 pm
Strange, I always imagined Reddit being in the "Screw da haters XD" crowd.
I think you undersestimate the number of left-wing douchebags who basically think "I'm pro choice and stuff, that means I can call anyone who wants more than that a crazy feminist bitch." See: Reddit, pretty much in its entirety.
Not liking feminism or acknowledging that it has certain extremes isn't misogyny. The problem is the many reasonable people who don't like Anita take a back seat while the the "FUCK THAT THIEVING C*** ILL RAPE THAT WHORE" crowd gets plastered all over the headlines, making it nearly impossible to say anything negative about her without getting labeled as a right-wing nut-job by the liberal group-think the internet is known for.
That being said the most upsetting part of this ordeal is that if people just got some ice for their asses and took 2 seconds to realize this would go the way of "KONY 2012": This "travesty" would not happen.
I hope Anita enjoys her free shit though. Maybe it'll teach people to ignore things they hate.
Post by: Draco18s on July 28, 2012, 05:56:45 pm
I said "more than that", referring to anything feminists want that's beyond popularly accepted things like abortion rights. I don't know how you're getting pro-life feminists out of my post.
I was going to post a link to a YouTube video called "Women for Santorum" but I can no longer find it.
It's clearly a spoof, but it's funny as hell.
Women: "I want someone else to decide for me what to do with my own body"
Husband, reading newspaper in the background: "Wait, what?"
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on July 28, 2012, 06:19:27 pm
Quote
This video is an examination of the patterns in Anita Sarkeesian's work.
https://twitter.com/Instig8iveJourn
'Tropes vs. Women in Video Games' may be the hot topic, but in order to understand what it means, we must examine Anita Sarkeesian's past products. She has been around for over three years, yet people speak as though she took the scene by storm. Anita Sarkeesian Part 1 is distanced from the current issue in order to gain objectivity.
Post by: Bdthemag on July 28, 2012, 06:23:56 pm
Anita Sarkeesian Part 1: The College Graduate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6gLmcS3-NI&feature=g-all-f)It's like a never ending cycle of stupidity, once you think it's over it just repeats itself.QuoteThis video is an examination of the patterns in Anita Sarkeesian's work.
https://twitter.com/Instig8iveJourn
'Tropes vs. Women in Video Games' may be the hot topic, but in order to understand what it means, we must examine Anita Sarkeesian's past products. She has been around for over three years, yet people speak as though she took the scene by storm. Anita Sarkeesian Part 1 is distanced from the current issue in order to gain objectivity.
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 28, 2012, 06:29:54 pm
I think you undersestimate the number of left-wing douchebags who basically think "I'm pro choice and stuff, that means I can call anyone who wants more than that a crazy feminist bitch." See: Reddit, pretty much in its entirety.Strange, I always imagined Reddit being in the "Screw da haters XD" crowd.
Not liking feminism or acknowledging that it has certain extremes isn't misogyny. The problem is the many reasonable people who don't like Anita take a back seat while the the "FUCK THAT THIEVING C*** ILL RAPE THAT WHORE" crowd gets plastered all over the headlines, making it nearly impossible to say anything negative about her without getting labeled as a right-wing nut-job by the liberal group-think the internet is known for.
That being said the most upsetting part of this ordeal is that if people just got some ice for their asses and took 2 seconds to realize this would go the way of "KONY 2012": This "travesty" would not happen.
I hope Anita enjoys her free shit though. Maybe it'll teach people to ignore things they hate.
I was more responding to the idea that someone who identifies as a liberal feminist would do something like overestimate the amount of evil man-hating feminists. On a second look at my post... man, it wasn't really clear that I meant that at all.
The arguments "I like feminism, but a lot of feminists hate men." and "I hate feminism. A lot of feminists hate men." are both pretty much equally incorrect. But a lot of people will look at the former as some awesome moderate viewpoint while the latter gets dismissed as it should.
Post by: Rez on July 28, 2012, 06:31:45 pm
If feminism is about equal rights, why not call it egalitarianism?
Post by: Leafsnail on July 28, 2012, 06:37:31 pm
Anita Sarkeesian Part 1: The College Graduate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6gLmcS3-NI&feature=g-all-f)It actually makes quite a few good points, marred by some really stupid cheap shots and bizarre stalkerishness. The points about Jay-Zee's video being a parody and questioning her not even showing any of the video are good, the "heh, stupid woman only watching TV ::)" was dumb and the "she might be married but probably doesn't have kids yet" was creepy as hell and completely uncalled for. I'm also not sure why he feels the need to drag up an old academic paper that isn't really relevant to anything.
Basically if he'd made it as a response video to some of her videos it might have been ok, but he felt like he had to turn it into a general broadside against her which ruined it.
Post by: scriver on July 28, 2012, 07:16:09 pm
If feminism is about equal rights, why not call it egalitarianism?
Because history.
Post by: SealyStar on July 28, 2012, 07:21:24 pm
Anita Sarkeesian Part 1: The College Graduate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6gLmcS3-NI&feature=g-all-f)QuoteThis video is an examination of the patterns in Anita Sarkeesian's work.
https://twitter.com/Instig8iveJourn
'Tropes vs. Women in Video Games' may be the hot topic, but in order to understand what it means, we must examine Anita Sarkeesian's past products. She has been around for over three years, yet people speak as though she took the scene by storm. Anita Sarkeesian Part 1 is distanced from the current issue in order to gain objectivity.
I love this video. Everything he says in it is absolutely true.
The italics indicate emphasis, by the way. I'm not being sarcastic. Sarkeesian suffers from incurable podostomatism, not to mention a mild case of Hypocrite's syndrome.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 28, 2012, 07:28:02 pm
Post by: Putnam on July 28, 2012, 07:45:53 pm
Post by: freeformschooler on July 28, 2012, 07:52:33 pm
podostomatism
Was that a serious typo or did you make that word up? I get nothing from googling "podostomatism" nor "podostoma". And "podostroma", Google's suggestion, is the name of a category of fungi.
EDIT: I get exactly three hits for "podostomatic", two of them from a single dictionary-type book called "Vocabula Bound" and another from a band. Apparently it means suffering of foot-in-mouth disease.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 28, 2012, 07:53:08 pm
Post by: freeformschooler on July 28, 2012, 07:56:27 pm
Post by: Draco18s on July 28, 2012, 08:00:13 pm
foot-in-mouth disease
Foot-AND-Mouth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_and_mouth
Post by: freeformschooler on July 28, 2012, 08:03:00 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on July 28, 2012, 08:19:23 pm
Foot-AND-Mouth.Yes, that's part of the pun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_and_mouth
Post by: Draco18s on July 28, 2012, 08:28:37 pm
Foot-AND-Mouth.Yes, that's part of the pun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_and_mouth
Yeah, I missed something and had lost track of the conversation.
Post by: Microcline on July 29, 2012, 12:23:22 am
Reddit is pretty fucked up. It took the combined efforts of SomethingAwful and Anderson Cooper to get them to shut down their child porn subreddit, and there's still some pretty awful shit going on there.I think you undersestimate the number of left-wing douchebags who basically think "I'm pro choice and stuff, that means I can call anyone who wants more than that a crazy feminist bitch." See: Reddit, pretty much in its entirety.Strange, I always imagined Reddit being in the "Screw da haters XD" crowd.
I find this sad to see. Investig8iveJournalism's stuff on the gaming press and the ME3 debacle, while a tad polemical, showed a certain degree of promise. It's unfortunate to see that he's part of Reddit's MRA crazies. His video is pointlessly anti-academic and anti-intellectual, and he doesn't seem to understand the idea of a bibliography (either supporting plagiarism or opposing referencing the work of others). He doesn't have any grasp of modern feminism, stating (without citation) that sex-positive feminists are a small, silenced minority, when in reality during the third wave the radical feminists suffered losses and were heavily marginalized to the point of only being bandied about when a right-wing commentator wants to discredit feminism as a whole. His attacks on Sarkeesian moderating her YouTube comments fall flat, as hers seem to have attracted an order of magnitude greater of death threats and shitposting, which given YouTube's normal quality is fairly telling. Rebutting Sarkeesian's arguments is where he fails the most. Regardless of what you think of Bayonetta's position as a progressive/sexist work, an add where subway patrons undress a billboard is undeniably sexist, and the reason Japanese trains need women-only cars is because certain individuals, perhaps the Japanese equivalent of Redditors, are unable to respect a woman's right to travel without being molested.Anita Sarkeesian Part 1: The College Graduate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6gLmcS3-NI&feature=g-all-f)QuoteThis video is an examination of the patterns in Anita Sarkeesian's work.
https://twitter.com/Instig8iveJourn
'Tropes vs. Women in Video Games' may be the hot topic, but in order to understand what it means, we must examine Anita Sarkeesian's past products. She has been around for over three years, yet people speak as though she took the scene by storm. Anita Sarkeesian Part 1 is distanced from the current issue in order to gain objectivity.
I love this video. Everything he says in it is absolutely true.
The italics indicate emphasis, by the way. I'm not being sarcastic. Sarkeesian suffers from incurable podostomatism, not to mention a mild case of Hypocrite's syndrome.
That said, there's still good reason to think this a Kickstarter disaster. He's right that she doesn't seem to get that YouTube videos should not just consist of a personality talking at the camera (name one bearable internet celebrity who does this). Her brand of pop-postmodernism (I will not call it postmodernism, as I will not associate those who need an excuse to obsess over Joss Whedon with the likes of Borges) is a vapid intellectual wasteland. She demonstrates no ability to pick up on undertones or subtlety, although I've yet to see a "troper" capable of recognizing any degree of subtle characterization. It might be stereotypical, but there's an argument to be made that the tvtropes philosophy of breaking stories down into user-friendly terms derived from anime parlance far removed from any sociological, psychological, or artistic study is poisonous to analytical ability.
In closing, I admire her for being able to get $160,000 for ranting about videogames on the internet.
Post by: SealyStar on July 29, 2012, 11:15:56 am
I find this sad to see. Investig8iveJournalism's stuff on the gaming press and the ME3 debacle, while a tad polemical, showed a certain degree of promise. It's unfortunate to see that he's part of Reddit's MRA crazies. His video is pointlessly anti-academic and anti-intellectual, and he doesn't seem to understand the idea of a bibliography (either supporting plagiarism or opposing referencing the work of others). He doesn't have any grasp of modern feminism, stating (without citation) that sex-positive feminists are a small, silenced minority, when in reality during the third wave the radical feminists suffered losses and were heavily marginalized to the point of only being bandied about when a right-wing commentator wants to discredit feminism as a whole. His attacks on Sarkeesian moderating her YouTube comments fall flat, as hers seem to have attracted an order of magnitude greater of death threats and shitposting, which given YouTube's normal quality is fairly telling. Rebutting Sarkeesian's arguments is where he fails the most. Regardless of what you think of Bayonetta's position as a progressive/sexist work, an add where subway patrons undress a billboard is undeniably sexist, and the reason Japanese trains need women-only cars is because certain individuals, perhaps the Japanese equivalent of Redditors, are unable to respect a woman's right to travel without being molested.
Now I'm sort of worried. On this forum, where I assumed people would be reasonable about this, I'm the only one who doesn't seem to like Anita Sensaasian (bad pun, I know) or her work.
It's not that I am anti-feminist or anything of the sort; in fact, thanks, in part, to my own mother's life story, I am quite forward about the equality of females in our culture, even though I'm a male. But there is a certain healthy chunk of modern feminism (by no means the majority, but still significant) which I absolutely cannot agree with, the one where Sarkeesian stands. If I weren't so afraid of being labeled as a right-wing bigot by the ignorant, I would call them "feminazis" (I know, point out the irony between "right-wing bigot" and "-nazi"). I disagree fundamentally with the mistaken belief that women have already achieved perfect equality; there is still much room for improvement (i.e. wages, reproductive rights, etc.). But extreme feminists like Sarkeesian pretend that things are worse than the really are in a pitiful attempt at playing the victim card. Yes, video games tend to present a rather-unfavorable image of women (I personally don't even find any of the women in her poster remotely attractive, either). But the typical feminist argument against this has two problems:
1. Demographic-wise, even though there is an ever-increasing percentage of female gamers, it is still a male-dominated sector of the entertainment industry. I do believe that a more egalitarian gaming culture would be universally beneficial, but this is not the case at the moment. But Sarkeesian's viewpoint, which overall is that sexy/innocent/in-distress virtual females are demeaning to females as a whole. Even though, y'know, they're individuals. And not real. For feminists and moral guardians like Sarkeesian to police the industry and tell heterosexual males (and a few lesbians, too) that they can't see anything attractive in women is to return to the sexual mores of the ironically-patriarchal Victorian era.
2. Most games aren't that bad in the female-depiction department. Moreover, feminist critiques of the subject always seem to pick on the wrong games. For example, Samus from Metroid is a determined, strong, planet-saving female warrior. Her gender is never important to the gameplay or story; it's not even discovered until the end of the first game. But obviously, by having a typically "attractive" figure, she is just, as Sarkeesian would say in her sensationalist style, a "Fighting F***toy". And, hell, if being attractive is tantamount to being demeaning to an entire gender, what about Alyx Vance? She's intelligent, helpful, badass, and skilled in various technical fields. Oh, but guess what? She's wearing slightly-too-tight jeans, a slightly-too-tight sweatshirt, and a face that's not quite in the uncanny valley. Too attractive, symbol of patriarchy.
I'm not targeting anyone here in particular, just that you're all being unexpectedly apologetic and defensive about Sarkeesian's work, and ranting on the invalidity of arguments against it, even perfectly logical ones.
Post by: DJ on July 29, 2012, 11:19:41 am
Post by: lordcooper on July 29, 2012, 11:26:23 am
Post by: DJ on July 29, 2012, 11:34:26 am
Post by: freeformschooler on July 29, 2012, 11:39:30 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: UltraValican on July 29, 2012, 11:40:04 am
But at least our pretty man-dolls generally get to wear a full set of clothing.So do female characters generally.
Uhm, yeah, I don't think so. It's basically a law that an action hero must rip off his shirt.Lets not forget about the "scrawny sexy male rogue or wizard" trope. (To be fair wizards and rogues tend to be cheesecake for both genders).
Post by: scriver on July 29, 2012, 11:42:06 am
Post by: UltraValican on July 29, 2012, 11:51:30 am
If this isn't objectified I don't know what is!I hate the whole "b-but power fantasy argument", but Kratos IS the literal definition of a power fantasy.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I don't know much about GOW in general so feel free to correct me when I'm wrong.
Kratos, for a man who wheres the ashes of his family as a sign of eternal morning, sure does have a LOT of sex with other women.
He kills hundreds of innocents with little to no remorse/consequence.
He shags Aphrodite, the wife of a god that decides to help him, while her two bisexual servants make out.
He kills the husband of the chick he's shagging on virtually a whim.
Post by: DJ on July 29, 2012, 11:56:47 am
Post by: UltraValican on July 29, 2012, 12:01:22 pm
To be fair, that's all fairly standard stuff for a Greek hero.I know, why do you think they got so popular. :D
Post by: SethCreiyd on July 29, 2012, 12:06:16 pm
She demonstrates no ability to pick up on undertones or subtlety, although I've yet to see a "troper" capable of recognizing any degree of subtle characterization.
It's common to bandy prejudice about a group when you associate the failings of individuals with the group to which they belong. You might enjoy Chuck Sonnenburg if you are interested in Science Fiction, he's a "troper" with a review show that emphasizes the importance of critical thought in appreciating artistic media.
It might be stereotypical, but there's an argument to be made that the tvtropes philosophy of breaking stories down into user-friendly terms derived from anime parlance far removed from any sociological, psychological, or artistic study is poisonous to analytical ability.
I take exception. Regardless of the origins of jargon employed, what evidence is there that the categorization of observed patterns is itself such a detriment? It's not so removed from the disciplines you mention simply for being amateurish when it blends elements of those and more. Since a TV Trope amounts to a culturally-relevant alias for an extant plot device, observed to be used commonly enough to indicate repetition, it would seem your issue is with the terminology, with the act of cataloging itself, or with a community you've just come to revile for one reason or another. Is taxonomy also a poison to analysis?
Post by: Leafsnail on July 29, 2012, 12:12:38 pm
Is taxonomy also a poison to analysis?If it replaces analysis I'd say so. "Here is a thing that happens, here is a list of the works in which it happens (and some works in which it does not happen)" isn't really analysis. You'd need to at least look at why the author(s) including that thing which happened in order to make it analysis.
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 29, 2012, 01:58:25 pm
For feminists and moral guardians like Sarkeesian to police the industry and tell heterosexual males (and a few lesbians, too) that they can't see anything attractive in women is to return to the sexual mores of the ironically-patriarchal Victorian era.
What they say is "everything women do shouldn't be centered around being attractive to men", and it's tremendously entitled to think that's some assault on your sexuality.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 29, 2012, 02:02:55 pm
Post by: SealyStar on July 29, 2012, 02:13:28 pm
For feminists and moral guardians like Sarkeesian to police the industry and tell heterosexual males (and a few lesbians, too) that they can't see anything attractive in women is to return to the sexual mores of the ironically-patriarchal Victorian era.
What they say is "everything women do shouldn't be centered around being attractive to men", and it's tremendously entitled to think that's some assault on your sexuality.
I agree completely that "everything women do shouldn't be centered around being attractive to men". But the way I see Sarkeesian's argument, she seems to think that it's a bad thing just to be attractive to men. I don't want women, real or fictional, who look like they're going out of their way to be attractive. Sarkeesian doesn't want attractive women in the media, period, it seems, because they're... y'know, fueling the patriarchy or something.
Since this isn't a discussion on feminism, patriarchy, and shit, though... back to crap Kickstarters. I found a slightly-amusing blog on the subject:
http://shit-starter.tumblr.com/ (http://shit-starter.tumblr.com/)
Post by: DJ on July 29, 2012, 02:25:33 pm
Post by: Draco18s on July 29, 2012, 02:33:54 pm
Post by: Microcline on July 29, 2012, 02:53:02 pm
As Leafsnail said, labeling is ultimately pointless if it doesn't reflect some underlying truth. TvTrope's categories are only applicable in cases of strict adherence to genre formula and not reflective of any underlying ontology. While it's perfectly fine for analyzing harem anime no. 3792 stamped out by the kaleidoscopes at the Muck House, looking at any literature page shows the incompatibility of their system with anything falling outside of these strict guidelines. It's tautology at it's finest, as tropes only apply to works that were created with genre tropes in mind.Is taxonomy also a poison to analysis?If it replaces analysis I'd say so. "Here is a thing that happens, here is a list of the works in which it happens (and some works in which it does not happen)" isn't really analysis. You'd need to at least look at why the author(s) including that thing which happened in order to make it analysis.
First, you should probably exercise more caution when making comparisons to Nazis. I don't think the desire to not be sexually objectified in media is in any way comparable to the desire to commit genocide.I find this sad to see. Investig8iveJournalism's stuff on the gaming press and the ME3 debacle, while a tad polemical, showed a certain degree of promise. It's unfortunate to see that he's part of Reddit's MRA crazies. His video is pointlessly anti-academic and anti-intellectual, and he doesn't seem to understand the idea of a bibliography (either supporting plagiarism or opposing referencing the work of others). He doesn't have any grasp of modern feminism, stating (without citation) that sex-positive feminists are a small, silenced minority, when in reality during the third wave the radical feminists suffered losses and were heavily marginalized to the point of only being bandied about when a right-wing commentator wants to discredit feminism as a whole. His attacks on Sarkeesian moderating her YouTube comments fall flat, as hers seem to have attracted an order of magnitude greater of death threats and shitposting, which given YouTube's normal quality is fairly telling. Rebutting Sarkeesian's arguments is where he fails the most. Regardless of what you think of Bayonetta's position as a progressive/sexist work, an add where subway patrons undress a billboard is undeniably sexist, and the reason Japanese trains need women-only cars is because certain individuals, perhaps the Japanese equivalent of Redditors, are unable to respect a woman's right to travel without being molested.
Now I'm sort of worried. On this forum, where I assumed people would be reasonable about this, I'm the only one who doesn't seem to like Anita Sensaasian (bad pun, I know) or her work.
It's not that I am anti-feminist or anything of the sort; in fact, thanks, in part, to my own mother's life story, I am quite forward about the equality of females in our culture, even though I'm a male. But there is a certain healthy chunk of modern feminism (by no means the majority, but still significant) which I absolutely cannot agree with, the one where Sarkeesian stands. If I weren't so afraid of being labeled as a right-wing bigot by the ignorant, I would call them "feminazis" (I know, point out the irony between "right-wing bigot" and "-nazi"). I disagree fundamentally with the mistaken belief that women have already achieved perfect equality; there is still much room for improvement (i.e. wages, reproductive rights, etc.). But extreme feminists like Sarkeesian pretend that things are worse than the really are in a pitiful attempt at playing the victim card. Yes, video games tend to present a rather-unfavorable image of women (I personally don't even find any of the women in her poster remotely attractive, either). But the typical feminist argument against this has two problems:
1. Demographic-wise, even though there is an ever-increasing percentage of female gamers, it is still a male-dominated sector of the entertainment industry. I do believe that a more egalitarian gaming culture would be universally beneficial, but this is not the case at the moment. But Sarkeesian's viewpoint, which overall is that sexy/innocent/in-distress virtual females are demeaning to females as a whole. Even though, y'know, they're individuals. And not real. For feminists and moral guardians like Sarkeesian to police the industry and tell heterosexual males (and a few lesbians, too) that they can't see anything attractive in women is to return to the sexual mores of the ironically-patriarchal Victorian era.
2. Most games aren't that bad in the female-depiction department. Moreover, feminist critiques of the subject always seem to pick on the wrong games. For example, Samus from Metroid is a determined, strong, planet-saving female warrior. Her gender is never important to the gameplay or story; it's not even discovered until the end of the first game. But obviously, by having a typically "attractive" figure, she is just, as Sarkeesian would say in her sensationalist style, a "Fighting F***toy". And, hell, if being attractive is tantamount to being demeaning to an entire gender, what about Alyx Vance? She's intelligent, helpful, badass, and skilled in various technical fields. Oh, but guess what? She's wearing slightly-too-tight jeans, a slightly-too-tight sweatshirt, and a face that's not quite in the uncanny valley. Too attractive, symbol of patriarchy.
I'm not targeting anyone here in particular, just that you're all being unexpectedly apologetic and defensive about Sarkeesian's work, and ranting on the invalidity of arguments against it, even perfectly logical ones.
Second, while good taste certainly ends at a fine line, there's a massive gap between "attractive female" and "bizarre fetish creature with tits larger than her head", and not all game studios are capable of recognizing this. She likely chose fighting games because many have become progressively worse in this area.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
There have been quite a few criticisms of Sarkeesian in this thread, as she is a self-obsessed primadonna of pop-postmodernism who has yet to produce anything of value and is a poor mouthpiece for any cause. However, this doesn't fix the numerous logical and factual errors in Investig8iveJournalism's video and sticking your head in the sand and denying that there are any problems with the portrayal of women in videogames is unlikely to win you many allies outside of Reddit.
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 29, 2012, 02:58:44 pm
I agree completely that "everything women do shouldn't be centered around being attractive to men". But the way I see Sarkeesian's argument, she seems to think that it's a bad thing just to be attractive to men. I don't want women, real or fictional, who look like they're going out of their way to be attractive. Sarkeesian doesn't want attractive women in the media, period, it seems, because they're... y'know, fueling the patriarchy or something.
I can see where you're coming from but I agree on the changing the topic. We've already had this discussion once or twice.
Post by: SealyStar on July 29, 2012, 03:08:28 pm
Quote
Second, while good taste certainly ends at a fine line, there's a massive gap between "attractive female" and "bizarre fetish creature with tits larger than her head"...I agree. But most human males nowadays seem to find that bizarre fetish creature more attractive (Why? I have no idea...). Why should people like Sarkeesian consider it their duty to police what others find attractive? I personally agree with Sarkeesian: such "bizarre fetish creatures" are demeaning, and not even attractive. But it's none of her business to bitch until this is accepted by the entirety of heterosexual masculinity.
Quote
Samus is another great example of the problem, as Nintendo decided to have her character re-written by a crazy Japanese misogynist.I'm assuming you mean Other M? If so, can't agree with you less. She turned from a world-saving badass to a dependent, emotionally insecure supermodel in power armor. Of course, that game sucked in general.
Quote
...Denying that there are any problems with the portrayal of women in videogames is unlikely to win you many allies outside of Reddit.Why does everyone bringing up Reddit? What is with this huge perceived hive of scum and misogyny on Reddit?
And besides that, I never said that there is no problem with the portrayal of women in games. I agree that there is a problem. But I did say Sarkeesian is blowing the problem out of proportion in order to exploit it for her own gain.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 29, 2012, 03:22:23 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on July 29, 2012, 03:26:28 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on July 29, 2012, 03:29:35 pm
So they just coincidentally wrote her into a horrible sexist stereotype?Yep. I can expunge on Other M production misadventure if you'd like.
It really boils down to the main production studio not known for making games but for cinematic cut scenes and then a fair bit of Executive cluster fucking and no strong leadership.
Post by: Willfor on July 29, 2012, 03:30:13 pm
Why does everyone bringing up Reddit? What is with this huge perceived hive of scum and misogyny on Reddit?Because, to be fair, it often is. I would link to my favorite commentary on this, but the sheer offensiveness in the other direction is something I would rather have aimed at reddit than here.
Post by: SealyStar on July 29, 2012, 03:32:09 pm
So they just coincidentally wrote her into a horrible sexist stereotype?
^
This
The game's writing and story was goddawful, but it's no coincidence that Samus went from strong and independent to submissive and dependent. Hell, she decides that for some goddamn reason she can't use all her gear, even if it would save her live... because she doesn't have goddamn permission?! Jesus Chri-GET THIS IDIOT OFF
Post by: UltraValican on July 29, 2012, 04:22:50 pm
I find calling anything "a bizarre fetish creature" more demeaning than simply a female with large breasts. Men (in general) like large breasts, I don't see how that's disgusting or demeaning.QuoteSecond, while good taste certainly ends at a fine line, there's a massive gap between "attractive female" and "bizarre fetish creature with tits larger than her head"...I agree. But most human males nowadays seem to find that bizarre fetish creature more attractive (Why? I have no idea...). Why should people like Sarkeesian consider it their duty to police what others find attractive? I personally agree with Sarkeesian: such "bizarre fetish creatures" are demeaning, and not even attractive. But it's none of her business to bitch until this is accepted by the entirety of heterosexual masculinity.
Post by: SealyStar on July 29, 2012, 04:32:32 pm
I find calling anything "a bizarre fetish creature" more demeaning than simply a female with large breasts. Men (in general) like large breasts, I don't see how that's disgusting or demeaning.QuoteSecond, while good taste certainly ends at a fine line, there's a massive gap between "attractive female" and "bizarre fetish creature with tits larger than her head"...I agree. But most human males nowadays seem to find that bizarre fetish creature more attractive (Why? I have no idea...). Why should people like Sarkeesian consider it their duty to police what others find attractive? I personally agree with Sarkeesian: such "bizarre fetish creatures" are demeaning, and not even attractive. But it's none of her business to bitch until this is accepted by the entirety of heterosexual masculinity.
I don't intend to label all women with large breasts as "bizarre fetish creatures". That label is reserved strictly for fictional females with unrealistically, IMO disturbingly, large breasts.
Post by: Draco18s on July 29, 2012, 04:37:16 pm
"a bizarre fetish creature"
(http://cache.blippitt.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Popcorn-02-Stephen-Colbert.gif)
Post by: UltraValican on July 29, 2012, 04:39:07 pm
And what in your opinion is "unrealistically large". I certainly haven't seen any fictional females "outside of obvious parody" that have HOLY SHIT WHAT THE FUCK level cleavage. What you call disgusting, other people might find attractive. What other people find attractive may be disgusting to you or others. I honestly wouldn't call any portrayal of the human body disgusting unless it involved fecal matter in some way.I find calling anything "a bizarre fetish creature" more demeaning than simply a female with large breasts. Men (in general) like large breasts, I don't see how that's disgusting or demeaning.QuoteSecond, while good taste certainly ends at a fine line, there's a massive gap between "attractive female" and "bizarre fetish creature with tits larger than her head"...I agree. But most human males nowadays seem to find that bizarre fetish creature more attractive (Why? I have no idea...). Why should people like Sarkeesian consider it their duty to police what others find attractive? I personally agree with Sarkeesian: such "bizarre fetish creatures" are demeaning, and not even attractive. But it's none of her business to bitch until this is accepted by the entirety of heterosexual masculinity.
I don't intend to label all women with large breasts as "bizarre fetish creatures". That label is reserved strictly for fictional females with unrealistically, IMO disturbingly, large breasts.
I'm afraid I don't speak reaction image. Would you be so kind as to explain what you find so entertaining about my post?"a bizarre fetish creature"
(http://cache.blippitt.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Popcorn-02-Stephen-Colbert.gif)
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 29, 2012, 04:43:31 pm
QuoteSecond, while good taste certainly ends at a fine line, there's a massive gap between "attractive female" and "bizarre fetish creature with tits larger than her head"...
I agree. But most human males nowadays seem to find that bizarre fetish creature more attractive (Why? I have no idea...). Why should people like Sarkeesian consider it their duty to police what others find attractive? I personally agree with Sarkeesian: such "bizarre fetish creatures" are demeaning, and not even attractive. But it's none of her business to bitch until this is accepted by the entirety of heterosexual masculinity.
Are you completely unaware of the consequences of gross and unrealistic beauty ideals? Because yeah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_disorder), while your personal attraction isn't that bad, things like this on the societal scale are anything but harmless.
Post by: Draco18s on July 29, 2012, 04:44:27 pm
I'm afraid I don't speak reaction image. Would you be so kind as to explain what you find so entertaining about my post?
This whole exchange is entertaining.
I was particularly amused by that particular phrase (you might not have said it first, that your post is where I saw it first, as I've been largely skimming).
Post by: lordcooper on July 29, 2012, 04:44:50 pm
I certainly haven't seen any fictional females "outside of obvious parody" that have HOLY SHIT WHAT THE FUCK level cleavage.
(http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/080630/tomb-raider_l.jpg)
Post by: UltraValican on July 29, 2012, 04:47:24 pm
What? it might be cold in that dungeon. ;)I certainly haven't seen any fictional females "outside of obvious parody" that have HOLY SHIT WHAT THE FUCK level cleavage.
(http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/080630/tomb-raider_l.jpg)
Yeah, I think we should probably get back on topic now, or just make a feminism thread if this pops up a third time.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 29, 2012, 04:49:47 pm
Post by: NobodyPro on July 29, 2012, 04:53:43 pm
Lara's cup size is the result of a modelling error. Somebody just happened to say: "Keep it."
Post by: lordcooper on July 29, 2012, 04:54:37 pm
So limitation of polygon rendering makes it sexist?
No, but this pretty much does.
Quote from: http://uk.retro.ign.com/articles/856/856183p1.html
The lady looked impressive all over, far more realistic than other games even attempted. Complete realism wasn't possible, of course, and Gard intended Lara to have somewhat exaggerated dimensions from the start. While making test adjustments to her girlish figure, a slip of his mouse turned an intended 50% increase to her breast size into a 150% gain. It met with instant approval from the team before he could correct it.
Just to clarify though, this is an issue I don't give two shits about. It's vaguely irritating, so I give one shit, maybe one and a quarter. It just annoys me when people rally against someone trying to stand against perceived injustice.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 29, 2012, 04:58:12 pm
Post by: scriver on July 29, 2012, 06:43:26 pm
Quote from: http://uk.retro.ign.com/articles/856/856183p1.htmlThe lady looked impressive all over, far more realistic than other games even attempted. Complete realism wasn't possible, of course, and Gard intended Lara to have somewhat exaggerated dimensions from the start. While making test adjustments to her girlish figure, a slip of his mouse turned an intended 50% increase to her breast size into a 150% gain. It met with instant approval from the team before he could correct it.
Yeah right, "slip of the hand". More like "look guys boobz lol".
Post by: Valid_Dark on July 29, 2012, 07:16:55 pm
I certainly haven't seen any fictional females "outside of obvious parody" that have HOLY SHIT WHAT THE FUCK level cleavage.
(http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/080630/tomb-raider_l.jpg)
Quote from: Dictionary.com
Cleavage - noun The area between a woman's breasts, especially when revealed by a low-cut neckline.
I see no cleavage in the linked picture.
Post by: Microcline on July 29, 2012, 08:19:16 pm
There's how much they whined when they were forced to shut down /r/jailbait, the entirety of /r/MRA, that creepy thread where they bragged about committing rape, and the overall fact that they're 4chan without any of the originality, humor, or self-awareness.Quote...Denying that there are any problems with the portrayal of women in videogames is unlikely to win you many allies outside of Reddit.Why does everyone bringing up Reddit? What is with this huge perceived hive of scum and misogyny on Reddit?
Whoa, where did anyone get that Other M was made by Japanese misogynist? Its a pretty terrible game, but the down grade on Samsus as a character isn't due to misogyny, but due to the production studios being completely fucking wrong for the game.The story was written and directed almost entirely by Yoshio Sakamoto. Given how proud Sakamoto is of the plot, it's pretty clear that he's incompetent (given the egregious plot holes) and sexist to the point where one can assume he has never had contact with a woman (http://moonbase.rydia.net/mental/blog/gaming/metroid-other-m-the-elephant/article.html). Team Ninja can really only be blamed for the mediocre gameplay, and even that can be somewhat excused due to the fact that if Sakamoto hadn't been so draconian about linear unskippable cutscenes they might have been able to add some actual metroidvania elements to the game.
There's no need to be pedantic; we all know what he's referring to. It's also funny how tame 1996 Laura seems compared to some of the other examples brought up. I think it'd even be arguable that that character is not portrayed in a deeply misogynistic way (the creepy eroticised sadism of the 2012 E3 trailer is another story though).I certainly haven't seen any fictional females "outside of obvious parody" that have HOLY SHIT WHAT THE FUCK level cleavage.
(http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/080630/tomb-raider_l.jpg)Quote from: Dictionary.comCleavage - noun The area between a woman's breasts, especially when revealed by a low-cut neckline.
I see no cleavage in the linked picture.
Most likely the fact that we've moved from mocking terrible kickstarters to trying to hash out what constitutes a "bizarre fetish creature". As much as I agree with him, I must admit we've got the wolf by the ear in with this debate.I'm afraid I don't speak reaction image. Would you be so kind as to explain what you find so entertaining about my post?"a bizarre fetish creature"
(http://cache.blippitt.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Popcorn-02-Stephen-Colbert.gif)
Post by: Microcline on July 29, 2012, 09:33:15 pm
I think we need a sexism thread or something now.It might be best if we just dropped the subject. As much as I respect the maturity of the Bay 12 forums, a group of neckbeards discussing feminism has too much potential to become a trainwreck, and I'd rather not tarnish the forum's reputation or burden Toady with having to moderate such a mess.
Post by: Sensei on July 29, 2012, 10:00:03 pm
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/projects/208324/posts/259498/image-132816-full.jpg?1341326945)
This is what gets me: There's some obvious photoshop skills (or at least time spent) and coding skills (again, or at least time spent). It's more work than goes into a lot of wishful amateur game projects. And yet it's so ugly, at the same time as being detailed and having evidently taken a lot of work. The true sign of a complete train wreck that refuses to die. And it doesn't stop there- watch the gameplay video (in the link above). Yes, they have a gameplay video. Yes, it looks godawful slow-paced. Yes, he's moving around by touching the screen near his character and then pressing and holding a button in a corner of the screen to attack. Yes, it's a real time game. Yes, you saw him wandering around looking for hidden things (like, you-have-to-walk-over-them-with-your-slow-walk hidden) before going to the next room. And yes, they have working gameplay.
With all that terrible design, and a background in bizarre and possibly dangerous genuine craziness, it really reminds me of MDicky and his games. My god, what if MDicky hadn't quit before Kickstarter became a popular platform for launching video games...
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 30, 2012, 05:27:01 am
I certainly haven't seen any fictional females "outside of obvious parody" that have HOLY SHIT WHAT THE FUCK level cleavage.
(http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/080630/tomb-raider_l.jpg)Quote from: Dictionary.comCleavage - noun The area between a woman's breasts, especially when revealed by a low-cut neckline.
I see no cleavage in the linked picture.
Amazing how far she's come eh?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: SealyStar on July 30, 2012, 09:06:26 am
Frankly, I'm surprised you guys dropped the bosnian pyramid one so quickly. There are updates (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/219812386/mysteries-of-bosnian-pyramids-i-road-to-recognitio-0/posts) to it, for crying out loud. Did you know that guy has a running demo of his game?
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/projects/208324/posts/259498/image-132816-full.jpg?1341326945)
This is what gets me: There's some obvious photoshop skills (or at least time spent) and coding skills (again, or at least time spent). It's more work than goes into a lot of wishful amateur game projects. And yet it's so ugly, at the same time as being detailed and having evidently taken a lot of work. The true sign of a complete train wreck that refuses to die. And it doesn't stop there- watch the gameplay video (in the link above). Yes, they have a gameplay video. Yes, it looks godawful slow-paced. Yes, he's moving around by touching the screen near his character and then pressing and holding a button in a corner of the screen to attack. Yes, it's a real time game. Yes, you saw him wandering around looking for hidden things (like, you-have-to-walk-over-them-with-your-slow-walk hidden) before going to the next room. And yes, they have working gameplay.
With all that terrible design, and a background in bizarre and possibly dangerous genuine craziness, it really reminds me of MDicky and his games. My god, what if MDicky hadn't quit before Kickstarter became a popular platform for launching video games...
Yeah, that's what I thought about that Bosnian pyramids game, too. Surprisingly good Photoshop and amount of time. But that doesn't stop the game from looking and playing ugly.
Post by: penguinofhonor on August 06, 2012, 05:52:15 pm
Very successful. I wonder what most of their marketing came from.
Post by: Megaman on August 06, 2012, 06:04:10 pm
Post by: penguinofhonor on August 06, 2012, 06:08:18 pm
Post by: freeformschooler on August 06, 2012, 06:08:59 pm
I can see this being a problem with hormonal teenage anime nerds if the stereotypes about them are at all true.
Post by: penguinofhonor on August 06, 2012, 06:10:24 pm
I hope that turns into one of those everyone-leave-the-room statements.
Post by: Megaman on August 06, 2012, 06:12:54 pm
The increase in population of the predatory jock may cause the extinction of the wild anime nerd outside of reservations.
Post by: nenjin on August 06, 2012, 06:15:26 pm
Just a friendly reminder to keep it congenial while you debate.
Post by: kaijyuu on August 06, 2012, 06:21:50 pm
And you people are saying "filthy perverts" as if that's somehow a bad thing. OMIGOSH BOOBS is just fine so long as it's not the only portrayal of women in the market. And in card games... my only experience is with Magic the Gathering and it's one of the fantasy settings with a moderate, but not horrible, case of the Chainmail Bikini Syndrome.
Post by: penguinofhonor on August 06, 2012, 06:28:06 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And their marketing seems to be 90% art, 10% mechanics. Which just seems to make the issue even more apparent.
Post by: Megaman on August 06, 2012, 06:33:00 pm
Post by: kaijyuu on August 06, 2012, 06:36:39 pm
This stereotypes ANYONE who enjoys anime or card games as being obsessed with hawtsexyboobladiez to the layperson.The only people who draw that conclusion are associative fallacy using douchebags. If you find someone making that inference, please, punch them in the face for me.
Post by: Megaman on August 06, 2012, 06:40:54 pm
If too many things like that indeed do exist, and a large following becomes very visible, I think many non-douchebags would be very tempted to make that fallacy.
Like the way many people make the assumption that Muslims are terrorishts, a perfectly reasonable person who is not exposed to evidence suggesting otherwise would also believe such a thing very willingly.
Post by: kaijyuu on August 06, 2012, 06:58:06 pm
I think many non-douchebags would be very tempted to make that fallacy.And if they do, they fall immediately into douchebag territory.
The problem with this stuff has never been that existed at all, but the ubiquity. In video games, it's damn near impossible to find a non-scantily clad woman. Card games... I dunno, since I'm not really into them. Either way, I wouldn't single out individual examples as "bad" but rather point to the industry as a whole as being dumb and catering to a small portion of their audience.
I have nothing against outright porn, so some titillation obviously doesn't bother me either. Good representation is what I care about, from a variety standpoint (as I'm selfish and like a variety of character traits on every front, including physical), as well as a role model standpoint (the media has some responsibility in that department -- what are we glorifying and what are we demonizing?).
This particular game reminds me of those face card decks with nude women on them. A half joke, half suggestive eye waggle.
Post by: Karlito on August 06, 2012, 07:00:54 pm
Post by: Megaman on August 06, 2012, 07:06:27 pm
Post by: Draco18s on August 06, 2012, 07:07:35 pm
Huh, apparently that publisher has already made the exact same game (http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/65282/tanto-cuore).
It's Dominion with Japanese maids. I've seen a copy and heard it was fairly good. But the one time I attempted to play it, I was running on four hours of sleep, after being awake for 14 hours, and lacking the rules (and/or being too lazy to read them).
Post by: lordcooper on August 06, 2012, 07:09:31 pm
Like the way many people make the assumption that Muslims are terrorists, a perfectly reasonable person who is not exposed to evidence suggesting otherwise would also believe such a thing very willingly.
No, that is not a reasonable person.
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on August 06, 2012, 07:10:08 pm
It's why I liked Duke Nukem back in the day, Why I really enjoyed bayonetta. Whining that games are disrespecting women won't solve a damn thing, as long as those games sell (and sell they do) they will. The only way developers will make games that cater to women is if there is a demand.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: kaijyuu on August 06, 2012, 07:12:05 pm
Indeed. Coming to bullshit conclusions with lack of evidence is exactly the problem. Any excuse along the lines of "they didn't have enough information" only makes it worse!Like the way many people make the assumption that Muslims are terrorists, a perfectly reasonable person who is not exposed to evidence suggesting otherwise would also believe such a thing very willingly.
No, that is not a reasonable person.
Men like big bouncy breasts, being a coolest muthafucka around, blasting off heads, and throwing money at hookers.Either I'm not a man, or your statements are a little too generalized.
Post by: Scelly9 on August 06, 2012, 07:19:18 pm
Agreed.Men like big bouncy breasts, being a coolest muthafucka around, blasting off heads, and throwing money at hookers.Either I'm not a man, or your statements are a little too generalized.
Post by: Megaman on August 06, 2012, 07:19:33 pm
Why not? If you grew up with nothing to disprove a notion, and then found nothing to disprove it, it would be seen as a completely reasonable view. However, thanks to the internet, and a larger amount of information available to the average person today, it's very easy to find counter evidence to the belief that, say, all Muslims are terrorists. All that has to be done is to prevent 'evidence' that the assumption is wrong from gaining credibility, and to create more that propose rational thinking. The boy that thinks that indeed all Muslims are terrorists may have the inevitable epiphany on how the way of thinking he has developed is flawed faster. How do you think the young boys in Nazi Germany who joined the Hitler Youth movement were so fanatical about Adolph Hitler's cause? He was all they knew, not that they have some kind of deficiency.Like the way many people make the assumption that Muslims are terrorists, a perfectly reasonable person who is not exposed to evidence suggesting otherwise would also believe such a thing very willingly.
No, that is not a reasonable person.
Post by: Putnam on August 06, 2012, 07:20:34 pm
Agreed.Men like big bouncy breasts, being a coolest muthafucka around, blasting off heads, and throwing money at hookers.Either I'm not a man, or your statements are a little too generalized.
They're perfectly generalized. You, as many people in this forum, are exceptions. Exceptions don't make generalizations invalid.
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on August 06, 2012, 07:23:13 pm
Men like big bouncy breasts, being a coolest muthafucka around, blasting off heads, and throwing money at hookers.Either I'm not a man, or your statements are a little too generalized.
It's okay if you like flat chested women, But who doesn't like violence? And who doesn't like bludgeoning prostitutes to death with a sack of money? It would do 1d4 or at least 1d3 of damage.
Post by: kaijyuu on August 06, 2012, 07:24:15 pm
I think you're conflating "normal" with "reasonable." A normal person quote often uses logical fallacies aplenty. A reasonable person does not.Why not? If you grew up with nothing to disprove a notion, and then found nothing to disprove it, it would be seen as a completely reasonable view. However, thanks to the internet, and a larger amount of information available to the average person today, it's very easy to find counter evidence to the belief that, say, all Muslims are terrorists. All that has to be done is to prevent 'evidence' that the assumption is wrong from gaining credibility, and to create more that propose rational thinking. The boy that thinks that indeed all Muslims are terrorists may have the inevitable epiphany on how the way of thinking he has developed is flawed faster. How do you think the young boys in Nazi Germany who joined the Hitler Youth movement were so fanatical about Adolph Hitler's cause? He was all they knew, not that they have some kind of deficiency.Like the way many people make the assumption that Muslims are terrorists, a perfectly reasonable person who is not exposed to evidence suggesting otherwise would also believe such a thing very willingly.
No, that is not a reasonable person.
We don't have shit like racism due to people being reasonable. We have those things due to people being normal and instinctual.
Generalizations being generalizations make them invalid.Agreed.Men like big bouncy breasts, being a coolest muthafucka around, blasting off heads, and throwing money at hookers.Either I'm not a man, or your statements are a little too generalized.
They're perfectly generalized. You, as many people in this forum, are exceptions. Exceptions don't make generalizations invalid.
Anyway, I'd bet money that MOST men are exceptions to one or all of those rules. A significant portion do follow those stereotypes, but not that much.
It's okay if you like flat chested women, But who doesn't like violence? And who doesn't like bludgeoning prostitutes to death with a sack of money? It would do 1d4 or at least 1d3 of damage.Under dnd improvised weapon rules it'd be 1d3, but you could argue a sack full of metal coins would function as a sap or morning star.
Post by: Putnam on August 06, 2012, 07:26:53 pm
Post by: Scelly9 on August 06, 2012, 07:27:16 pm
Approximately 15% of my friends.Men like big bouncy breasts, being a coolest muthafucka around, blasting off heads, and throwing money at hookers.Either I'm not a man, or your statements are a little too generalized.
It's okay if you like flat chested women, But who doesn't like violence?
Post by: Megaman on August 06, 2012, 07:28:04 pm
How do you think things such as the civil rights movement appeared? People with the reasonable view of tolerance provided the normal person who held the unreasonable view of prejudice with evidence against such a thing, which resulted in the reasonable view of tolerance becoming more common. Thus, making reasonable people normal.I think you're conflating "normal" with "reasonable." A normal person quote often uses logical fallacies aplenty. A reasonable person does not.Why not? If you grew up with nothing to disprove a notion, and then found nothing to disprove it, it would be seen as a completely reasonable view. However, thanks to the internet, and a larger amount of information available to the average person today, it's very easy to find counter evidence to the belief that, say, all Muslims are terrorists. All that has to be done is to prevent 'evidence' that the assumption is wrong from gaining credibility, and to create more that propose rational thinking. The boy that thinks that indeed all Muslims are terrorists may have the inevitable epiphany on how the way of thinking he has developed is flawed faster. How do you think the young boys in Nazi Germany who joined the Hitler Youth movement were so fanatical about Adolph Hitler's cause? He was all they knew, not that they have some kind of deficiency.Like the way many people make the assumption that Muslims are terrorists, a perfectly reasonable person who is not exposed to evidence suggesting otherwise would also believe such a thing very willingly.
No, that is not a reasonable person.
We don't have shit like racism due to people being reasonable. We have those things due to people being normal and instinctual.
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on August 06, 2012, 07:36:46 pm
Violence in video games? Because I was talking about Duke Nukem, where you could do all of that. you could even throw money at strippersApproximately 15% of my friends.Men like big bouncy breasts, being a coolest muthafucka around, blasting off heads, and throwing money at hookers.Either I'm not a man, or your statements are a little too generalized.
It's okay if you like flat chested women, But who doesn't like violence?
Highly graphic depiction of a man paying for a lap dance. the faint of heart shouldn't look
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: kaijyuu on August 06, 2012, 07:39:36 pm
Okay, let's do this. Serious mode engaged.
There are "strong" and "weak" inductive arguments. A "weak" one is a reasonable position to take in light of lack of evidence, which is your argument. However, no reasonable person would but much weight behind a weak inductive argument; it would be a "yeah probably" thing at best.
Furthermore, it's impossible to have a truly weak inductive argument that is also a reasonable position to take when it involves people. Why? You've dealt with people your entire life. It is absolutely unreasonable to assume due to skin color, race, gender, sexual orientation, and yes even interests and hobbies that another person would be vastly different enough to give credence to these stereotypes being ubiquitous. You have plenty of evidence that people are varied within groups. You have no reason to believe they all act the same, no matter what brings them together.
People make these weak inductive arguments and put weight behind them because that was a smart thing to do when we were still chucking spears at each other. Dude from another tribe looks different; kill him before he steals our land and food. That is no longer the case, as much as people want to believe it (immigrants be takin' our jobs!).
Post by: lordcooper on August 06, 2012, 07:44:08 pm
Post by: Putnam on August 06, 2012, 07:52:02 pm
@megaman
Okay, let's do this. Serious mode engaged.
There are "strong" and "weak" inductive arguments. A "weak" one is a reasonable position to take in light of lack of evidence, which is your argument. However, no reasonable person would but much weight behind a weak inductive argument; it would be a "yeah probably" thing at best.
Furthermore, it's impossible to have a truly weak inductive argument that is also a reasonable position to take when it involves people. Why? You've dealt with people your entire life. It is absolutely unreasonable to assume due to skin color, race, gender, sexual orientation, and yes even interests and hobbies that another person would be vastly different enough to give credence to these stereotypes being ubiquitous. You have plenty of evidence that people are varied within groups. You have no reason to believe they all act the same, no matter what brings them together.
People make these weak inductive arguments and put weight behind them because that was a smart thing to do when we were still chucking spears at each other. Dude from another tribe looks different; kill him before he steals our land and food. That is no longer the case, as much as people want to believe it (immigrants be takin' our jobs!).
And now you're putting words into whoever-it-is's mouth. I, for one, never said they were "ubiquitous", that I can "assume that anyone in that group will act that way". I'm saying that there is probably going to be a reason for these things. Games sold on sex and violence sell. There's a reason for that.
Post by: kaijyuu on August 06, 2012, 07:58:56 pm
For your assertion... yeah I'll admit there are correlations. Correlation != causation, though. For example, I'd argue many of our gender related stereotypes are social constructs rather than anything intrinsic (and the ones that actually are intrinsic are vastly overblown).
Post by: Draco18s on August 06, 2012, 08:04:58 pm
I'm sure even the most pants-on-head retarded of rednecks is capable of using Google.
You've obviously never worked tech support.
Post by: Megaman on August 06, 2012, 08:37:46 pm
I'm putting words in no one's mouth, since I was responding to Megaman's original assertion that pre-judging people based stereotypes can be reasonable.That's not what I was trying to say at all, I'm saying that PEOPLE who do such a thing can be, otherwise, reasonable. It just takes more information suggesting that it is indeed flawed to judge based on stereotypes to be readily available, and in a way the layman will come in contact with it more often, to cause a change in thought for the better.
Post by: lordcooper on August 06, 2012, 08:40:13 pm
Post by: Megaman on August 06, 2012, 08:42:42 pm
Post by: alway on August 06, 2012, 10:04:31 pm
Also, we all have the internet now dude. I'm sure even the most pants-on-head retarded of rednecks is capable of using Google.You highly overestimate people. Google-fu is still much less common than it needs to be, and most people would still rather post trivial, inane questions on their facebook or twitter than spend a third of the time typing a fifth of that to do a google search.
As for weird card games though, this one takes the cake: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1189988320/tentacle-bento-by-soda-pop-miniatures?ref=category
Though apparently Kickstarter suspended funding (dunno if it was the subject matter or that they were advertising on kickstarter that they were taking donations after Kickstarter ended [against the TOS iirc; and that it got to the end before being suspended leads me to believe it was this one]). Though this one isn't creepy so much as over the top to the point of satire; it's basically 'softcore tentacle hentai: the card game'.
Post by: penguinofhonor on August 06, 2012, 11:43:10 pm
I don't think those games are being misogynistic, they are just catering to their audience, men. Men like big bouncy breasts, being a coolest muthafucka around, blasting off heads, and throwing money at hookers.
It's why I liked Duke Nukem back in the day, Why I really enjoyed bayonetta. Whining that games are disrespecting women won't solve a damn thing, as long as those games sell (and sell they do) they will. The only way developers will make games that cater to women is if there is a demand.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So your argument that they're not misogynistic, just that they're catering to misogyny? I don't see how that's different.
Contrary to popular belief, nobody does something just because there's a market for it. There's probably a market for horribly racist products. Reasonable people do not say "Oh, yeah, the KKK wanted to buy these so I made them since there was a market for it." It's still immoral to do produce bigoted stuff. Just because you're making money off it does not make it excusable.
edit: Admittedly, machismo and misogyny aren't identical. Duke Nukem is more of the former and sexy anime girl games are more of the latter.
Post by: Bdthemag on August 07, 2012, 12:09:22 am
the fu...Because once people on this forum get bored about the original thread topic, then it goes into a discussion about things like misogyny and pacifism.
how'd we go from crappy KS projects to pacifism?
Post by: Megaman on August 07, 2012, 12:16:55 am
Post by: Neonivek on August 07, 2012, 12:23:15 am
I mean... It wasn't THAT long ago since we saw the greatest doorbell ringing simulator ever.
But what is on this page? A card game for people who want a pervy card game?
Come on people where is the solid calcified suck, the rage inducing terribleness, the visions of pain and misery. Where is the kickstarter gone wrong?
Post by: Megaman on August 07, 2012, 12:25:19 am
Post by: Bdthemag on August 07, 2012, 12:26:29 am
Post by: Neonivek on August 07, 2012, 12:26:59 am
It's like strip-mining turned up to eleven trillion. Eventually you just run out.
I guess even terrible horridness has its limits.
Post by: Megaman on August 07, 2012, 12:29:55 am
And like all people who strip mine, once they run out of things to mine they discuss misogyny.Do you have ANY idea how lucrative the misogyny trade is?
Post by: Bdthemag on August 07, 2012, 12:32:34 am
I would say I do, but I figured we've already discussed Anita Sarkeesian to death already.And like all people who strip mine, once they run out of things to mine they discuss misogyny.Do you have ANY idea how lucrative the misogyny trade is?
Post by: penguinofhonor on August 07, 2012, 12:36:50 am
I was expecting something funny to laugh at... but interesting this topic dried up.
I mean... It wasn't THAT long ago since we saw the greatest doorbell ringing simulator ever.
But what is on this page? A card game for people who want a pervy card game?
Come on people where is the solid calcified suck, the rage inducing terribleness, the visions of pain and misery. Where is the kickstarter gone wrong?
I don't know if people want to go out and seek the worst of the worst. That's scary.
Post by: SealyStar on August 07, 2012, 08:20:52 am
The Weavers (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/929519929/weavers-101?ref=recently_launched)
Post by: nenjin on August 07, 2012, 09:15:08 am
But yes. Need less super serial KS discussion, and more Grade Y Kickstarters we can amuse ourselves with!
Post by: 10ebbor10 on August 07, 2012, 09:38:20 am
Post by: Putnam on August 07, 2012, 02:12:16 pm
Well, it's not the worst of the worst, but I found this little gem, a hardcore-monster-fighting squeaky-clean Christian comic book. Or something. I don't really know.
The Weavers (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/929519929/weavers-101?ref=recently_launched)
Oh god how stereotypical those characters are
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on August 07, 2012, 02:22:20 pm
Well, it's not the worst of the worst, but I found this little gem, a hardcore-monster-fighting squeaky-clean Christian comic book. Or something. I don't really know.
The Weavers (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/929519929/weavers-101?ref=recently_launched)
Oh god how stereotypical those characters are
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I didn't know Casey Jones was a fat asian evangelical.
Post by: Megaman on August 07, 2012, 02:25:20 pm
Post by: penguinofhonor on August 07, 2012, 02:40:44 pm
Post by: lordcooper on August 07, 2012, 02:44:23 pm
Good shit.
Post by: UltraValican on August 07, 2012, 03:42:52 pm
Not really, actually not at all. There are plenty of decently dressed female characters, its just that the "OHSOEVILBOOBARMORIDONTEVENHAVETOEQUIP" gets blown out of proportion.
The problem with this stuff has never been that existed at all, but the ubiquity. In video games, it's damn near impossible to find a non-scantily clad woman. Card games... I dunno, since I'm not really into them. Either way, I wouldn't single out individual examples as "bad" but rather point to the industry as a whole as being dumb and catering to a small portion of their audience.
As for your other statement.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
As for the card game itself I only have two things to say:
MY TRAP CARDS ARE MOVING ON THEIR OWN~
Post by: nenjin on August 07, 2012, 04:13:05 pm
Not really, actually not at all. There are plenty of decently dressed female characters, its just that the "OHSOEVILBOOBARMORIDONTEVENHAVETOEQUIP" gets blown out of proportion.
The problem with this stuff has never been that existed at all, but the ubiquity. In video games, it's damn near impossible to find a non-scantily clad woman. Card games... I dunno, since I'm not really into them. Either way, I wouldn't single out individual examples as "bad" but rather point to the industry as a whole as being dumb and catering to a small portion of their audience.
As for your other statement.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Waaaahhh? One is quantifiable in just about every major video game.
The other seems to be something you've cooked up off a specific example.
If we're talking about in-game immersion and sensibility, almost nothing compares to the absurdity of titty guards.
Post by: UltraValican on August 07, 2012, 04:31:03 pm
I always felt like it's an equilibrium, but I haven't played or know about every game in existence. I'm speaking from personal experience, and from my personal experience I feel like there's an equilibrium. On the immersion thing, maybe it IS just me, I guess I can take a whole lot of bullshit before my suspension of disbelief is broken.Not really, actually not at all. There are plenty of decently dressed female characters, its just that the "OHSOEVILBOOBARMORIDONTEVENHAVETOEQUIP" gets blown out of proportion.
The problem with this stuff has never been that existed at all, but the ubiquity. In video games, it's damn near impossible to find a non-scantily clad woman. Card games... I dunno, since I'm not really into them. Either way, I wouldn't single out individual examples as "bad" but rather point to the industry as a whole as being dumb and catering to a small portion of their audience.
As for your other statement.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Waaaahhh? One is quantifiable in just about every major video game.
The other seems to be something you've cooked up off a specific example.
If we're talking about in-game immersion and sensibility, almost nothing compares to the absurdity of titty guards.
Also, the term "titty guards" may be the best damn thing said in this entire thread.
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on August 07, 2012, 05:02:57 pm
Also, the term "titty guards" may be the best damn thing said in this entire thread.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: UltraValican on August 07, 2012, 05:16:12 pm
If I could put images in signatures I would.Also, the term "titty guards" may be the best damn thing said in this entire thread.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, to stay some what on topic THATS what people were complaining about when they about chainmail bikini. I thought people were complaining about stuff like this.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: nenjin on August 07, 2012, 05:34:52 pm
The hideous Oblivion booby thing is what I'm sick of. So games like Bayonetta, Chick-with-Huge-Tits-And-A-Chainsaw-Whatever, ect.... despite what people may say about "empowering women", still seems like a bottom of the barrel approach to getting your base interested. Would Bayonetta have even made a dent in things were it not for the over the top sexuality? Probably. But we'll never really know.
Maybe this just makes me weird, but I don't play video games to be sexually aroused. I have plenty of other outlets for that. So I get annoyed when developers seem to think that's what I want, all day, every day. At least Skyrim took a straight-laced approach for the most part.
Post by: Hawkfrost on August 07, 2012, 05:50:16 pm
Would Bayonetta have even made a dent in things were it not for the over the top sexuality? Probably. But we'll never really know.
Funnily enough, the fanservice was actually the worst part of that game, since the mechanics and controls were airtight and perfectly responsive.
They could have cut all the gratuitous sexuality and it likely would have sold even better if it was marketed on the mechanics and not the character.
In fact, the fanservice is so blatant it's basically a parody of itself and becomes humorous.
Maybe this just makes me weird, but I don't play video games to be sexually aroused. I have plenty of other outlets for that. So I get annoyed when developers seem to think that's what I want, all day, every day.
I will agree with you there, If you want to be aroused there is already readily available material for that and it doesn't need to pervade all other mediums, and putting it in turns off all mature adults who judge things on more than just T&A appeal.
Post by: Fniff on August 07, 2012, 07:49:09 pm
It's annoying how it invades other genres, cos it totally ruins the point of empowering women. If more then ten guys are masturbating at your female protagonist, you're doing it wrong. More then ten, because some people just masturbate at anything.
Post by: kaijyuu on August 07, 2012, 07:59:37 pm
More then ten, because some people just masturbate at anything.He's right. I remember this one time...
Anyway, I still classify this in the same area as those face card decks with sexy women on them. The game is basic, but the artwork is... ahem, intended to be interesting. As such, I'd classify it as sotfcore porn, which is against Kickstarter's rules. Were it up to me there wouldn't be a rule against porn either, but still.
I thought people were complaining about stuff like this.I have nothing wrong with the outfit there, but the pose is obviously a bit sexualized. B+ for outfit, D- for pose.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I want to see a lot more stuff like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tellemurius on August 07, 2012, 08:02:59 pm
You realize i see that last pic as sort of a "innocent" pose :PMore then ten, because some people just masturbate at anything.He's right. I remember this one time...
Anyway, I still classify this in the same area as those face card decks with sexy women on them. The game is basic, but the artwork is... ahem, intended to be interesting. As such, I'd classify it as sotfcore porn, which is against Kickstarter's rules. Were it up to me there wouldn't be a rule against porn either, but still.I thought people were complaining about stuff like this.I have nothing wrong with the outfit there, but the pose is obviously a bit sexualized. B+ for outfit, D- for pose.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I want to see a lot more stuff like this:Zero sexualization, pose that portrays something other than "I want to bone you," still looks badass, and (moderately) practical.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(silence i have a dirty mind)
Post by: kaijyuu on August 07, 2012, 08:06:48 pm
Post by: alway on August 07, 2012, 08:26:57 pm
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/abbeton/crazy-chins-app-mask-kits-hilarity?ref=category
Post by: Tellemurius on August 07, 2012, 08:27:49 pm
Well, back on topic:i totally want those just for the pure fact i will be ostracized using them in public.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/abbeton/crazy-chins-app-mask-kits-hilarity?ref=category
Post by: Draco18s on August 07, 2012, 08:43:38 pm
Well, back on topic:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/abbeton/crazy-chins-app-mask-kits-hilarity?ref=category
Wait wait wait waitwaitwait
9 pledges.
$871
People are paying $91 for this shit?
Post by: Tellemurius on August 07, 2012, 08:45:37 pm
actually looking through the list, some guy forked up more than $300 for their retailer package.....Well, back on topic:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/abbeton/crazy-chins-app-mask-kits-hilarity?ref=category
Wait wait wait waitwaitwait
9 pledges.
$871
People are paying $91 for this shit?
Post by: Draco18s on August 07, 2012, 08:46:34 pm
actually looking through the list, some guy forked up more than $300 for their retailer package.....
*Facepalm*
Post by: SealyStar on August 07, 2012, 09:02:16 pm
Well, back on topic:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/abbeton/crazy-chins-app-mask-kits-hilarity?ref=category
Ah, finally, a successful rerailer.
That bulldog mask is genuinely frightening.
EDIT: Not to say the rest aren't. They all are. The bulldog one is the one that's just so horrible, I'm gonna have nightmares.
Post by: MrWiggles on August 07, 2012, 09:05:12 pm
Post by: Fniff on August 07, 2012, 09:12:04 pm
Post by: Megaman on August 07, 2012, 09:19:56 pm
Post by: SirAaronIII on August 07, 2012, 09:22:44 pm
Post by: SealyStar on August 07, 2012, 09:56:53 pm
Its terrifying and pointless. Like WWI!
Eh, I think a few miles of land in France were way more worth it than these masks. And come on, at least mustard gas blinds you so you don't have to see that horrible bulldog.
Or is 98 years still too soon?
Post by: Fniff on August 07, 2012, 10:02:26 pm
Post by: Megaman on August 07, 2012, 11:06:40 pm
Post by: Fniff on August 07, 2012, 11:08:55 pm
And B12ers rule the ashes.
Post by: UltraValican on August 08, 2012, 03:13:47 pm
I could go on and on about how dead you'd be if you tried anything, and how that pose communicates something non-sexual if one's played the game fully, but this isn't the "Kai gushes about his favorite video games" thread. :PMY OWN CLONE.
Well, I was gonna cite that Valkyrie Chronicles. I tried the PSP game but couldn't get into it. The concept of training up party members, growing attached to them, then sending them off to die in Valhalla sounds interesting, and the game was. I just could not get into it./off topic. I just sorta stopped because I was doing a pretty shitty job and
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Well, back on topic:There's a market for this stuff? I had to look up "chin mask" just to see if this was for real.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/abbeton/crazy-chins-app-mask-kits-hilarity?ref=category
Post by: Megaman on August 08, 2012, 03:21:32 pm
Post by: penguinofhonor on August 08, 2012, 03:37:33 pm
Post by: Draco18s on August 08, 2012, 03:38:37 pm
Aaaand the chin mask failed. They haven't even raised 1K and there's about an hour left.
Well duh :P
It's not like most people need "specialized software" to make these "hilarious and highly popular" videos.
Post by: Scelly9 on August 08, 2012, 03:40:13 pm
Well, you do need the "Hollywood grade" Chin masks!Aaaand the chin mask failed. They haven't even raised 1K and there's about an hour left.
Well duh :P
It's not like most people need "specialized software" to make these "hilarious and highly popular" videos.
Post by: nenjin on August 08, 2012, 03:44:39 pm
Post by: Karlito on August 09, 2012, 01:04:55 am
How do people delve through Kickstarter to get to the truly terrible things without just getting really bored?I feel you bro. I just spent about an hour browsing the recently launched and it basically consisted entirely of people wanting to self-publish children's books. Oh, and computers for old people (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/puredevices/the-pure-device-a-simple-way-to-stay-connected?ref=recently_launched).
EDIT: I mean, at least Food Font is better than Hatphabet (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/220089401/hatphabet?ref=recently_launched).
Post by: penguinofhonor on August 09, 2012, 01:54:41 am
I feel like half of these art things could be done for free in a few hours by someone who's decent with photoshop. People are just asking for $1500 or so to see if they can get it.
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on August 09, 2012, 02:24:16 am
Post by: lordcooper on August 09, 2012, 02:29:48 am
ORIGINAL CHARACTER DO NOT STEAL! Totally not Drizzt at all! (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/legends-legacy/legends-an-animated-trailer?ref=recently_launched)
Umm, he ran the exact same project on there already. It got funded just over a week ago.
Am I missing something, or should I be reporting this?
Post by: Kilroy the Grand on August 09, 2012, 02:31:10 am
ORIGINAL CHARACTER DO NOT STEAL! Totally not Drizzt at all! (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/legends-legacy/legends-an-animated-trailer?ref=recently_launched)
Umm, he ran the exact same project on there already. It got funded just over a week ago.
Am I missing something, or should I be reporting this?
Well it could be someone running a scam, reporting it couldn't hurt.
Post by: MrWiggles on August 09, 2012, 02:33:01 am
---
Yes srsly.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/legends-legacy/legends-animated-series-trailer ~~ Second Kickstarter and Successful.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/legends-legacy/legends-series-trailer ~~ First Kick Starter
Post by: penguinofhonor on August 09, 2012, 02:56:01 am
Quote
The long journey of a Hero becoming a villain and the Villain's journey to becoming one of the greatest Hero's.
I won't count the terrible grammar as a good criticism even though I want to. This is a generic, meaningless, and uninformative tagline. It tells me a little about the plot, but nothing unique and definitely nothing memorable. Overall it fails completely at everything a tagline wants to do.
Quote
This is an Epic Tale to last through the ages. If Indiana Jones had a Hybrid baby with Lord Of The Rings, this would be IT!!!
I won't count the overenthusiastic exclamation points and dumb capitalization (capitalizing "hybrid"? really?) as a good criticism but I want to. If your first meaningful bit description doesn't actually say anything about your work, you're probably doing it wrong. Unless maybe this is a fanfiction, but I really think even they can try harder than that.
/ignoring next sentence since it's basically "here's a list"
Quote
The series is an Anime that was started from a D&D campaign 11 years ago and has thus changed into a great epic tale of serious manner while still maintaining very high levels of comedy.
The D&D campaign thing roots this firmly in my mind as a "me and my friends thought this up and it's super cool" sort of thing, which is a bad start. "Serious yet funny" sounds like he's desperately trying to appeal to everyone.
Quote
This Kickstarter is to produce the funding needed to pay the animator the costs of doing the actual labor of hand drawn animation for a 2 minute Trailer.
"This Kickstarter is not actually intended to produce any meaningful work." It's basically this (http://xkcd.com/1055/).
Quote
We have Actors, Musicians, Writers, and Artists excited and currently working, however our key animation artist can't pay his bills by giving his Landlord pretty pictures.
So... this isn't actually a kickstarter that intends to produce anything, it's a "help me live" kickstarter. Also unnecessary capitalization. And really, for having this many art people on board all you have to show beyond the writing is three portraits and a world map and twenty seconds of music. That is a problem. You can get full-body concept sketches done for probably $10 each at a far better quality than the pictures on the kickstarter. If you're really passionate about this, show me the full cast of characters or something.
Quote
The MAIN goal of our Trailer and SERIES is to entertain while spreading a message that Anyone regardless of size, gender, and race can become REMARKABLE characters and LEGENDARY HEROES.
Unnecessary capitalization. And... I guess that's a pretty good moral? You win, kickstarter dude. I don't really have anything to say about this sentence beyond that. But just because I don't want to stop...
HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE REST OF THE THING
Quote
It is to be animated in a full fluid animation and not choppy like flash.
I'd sure as hell hope so.
Quote
This is the beginning of 3 seasons...
Quote
The Artwork and Scripts (For the full 3 Seasons) are nearly finished, but we need some extra funds to add the final element to make this trailer and ultimately the SERIES as beautiful and fluid as it can be.
If I ran a Fantasy Writing 101 class, the first lesson would be "stop getting ahead of yourself", i.e. don't write three seasons of material before you've even done anything with your first season. There's a decent chance this'll be crap and nobody will like it and you'll have wasted triple the amount of time.
Look at Eragon. Look at Harry Potter. Look at every single popular series ever. You release your first book when your first book is done. J.K. Rowling didn't write the seventh book in the series until the first six had proven that they were goddamn successful because she's not an idiot. If the first book had bombed then she'd have spent the next eight years of her life writing a different series. Nothing in writing is definite.
This guy shows a ton of completely undeserved confidence in his stuff. Nothing he has done has proven it's worthy of publishing. This can only end in disaster.
Post by: MrWiggles on August 09, 2012, 03:09:56 am
Post by: penguinofhonor on August 09, 2012, 03:12:47 am
Post by: MrWiggles on August 09, 2012, 03:14:14 am
Post by: penguinofhonor on August 09, 2012, 03:16:14 am
Post by: nenjin on August 09, 2012, 09:03:37 am
Quote
Heroes that are talked about for the 30 years to come... (Seasons 2 &3).
I don't know why but this strikes me as incredibly funny. Like, the day after the 30 year mark, the heroes slip from the consciousness of the entire world and everyone just thinks they're grubby thieves.
Quote
Am I missing something, or should I be reporting this?
You could I suppose. I get the impression they were like 'doh, shoulda asked for more money last time!' That or they decided to pay everyone but their artist and he told them to take a flying fuck.
Post by: Draco18s on August 09, 2012, 09:34:05 am
You could I suppose. I get the impression they were like 'doh, shoulda asked for more money last time!' That or they decided to pay everyone but their artist and he told them to take a flying fuck.
His first kickstart asked for $3100 and raised $885.
So he restarted it and asked for less money, $550 and raised $600.
But seeing as he actually still needs the $3100 he started yet another kickstarter asking for another $550.
I suspect in a month he'll start another one, regardless of if this one succeeds or not (also his rewards are garbage, seriously, who'd pay $1000 for "10 pens and a couple of shirts"?).
Post by: kingfisher1112 on August 09, 2012, 11:58:21 am
Honestly, for the trailer? Idiotic.
Post by: Putnam on August 09, 2012, 12:07:05 pm
then I ctrl+f'd "drizzt" and found nothing, so yeah, it's DEFINITELY about Drizzt.
Post by: penguinofhonor on August 09, 2012, 01:04:42 pm
Post by: Karlito on August 09, 2012, 01:11:58 pm
Quote
Can I retry my project if funding is unsuccessful?
Yes. You can always try again with a new goal, whenever you're ready. You’ll need to set your project up from scratch, but it can be essentially identical if you choose.
Post by: Draco18s on August 09, 2012, 01:13:29 pm
Is there a rule against constantly restarting the same Kickstarter?
You are allowed to retry if you fail, no rule against that, but I can't find anything saying that you can (or cannot) after a success.
Post by: Shades on August 09, 2012, 01:34:24 pm
You are allowed to retry if you fail, no rule against that, but I can't find anything saying that you can (or cannot) after a success.
When your business model is to take 5% of anything raised (and a further 3-5% to Amazon) it benefits to allow people to keep retrying or asking for more.
Post by: penguinofhonor on August 09, 2012, 02:09:57 pm
Post by: Draco18s on August 09, 2012, 02:35:06 pm
brb, making a "give me 5 bucks" kickstarter that I'm just going to restart infinitely
When my group was talking Kickstarter, we pondered the hilariousness of a $1 kickstarter, with pledge amounts measured in dimes and quarters.
Post by: GalenEvil on August 10, 2012, 03:14:08 am
brb, making a "give me 5 bucks" kickstarter that I'm just going to restart infinitely
When my group was talking Kickstarter, we pondered the hilariousness of a $1 kickstarter, with pledge amounts measured in dimes and quarters.
And then the next day you take a look and you have $10,000.45 :D
Post by: olemars on August 10, 2012, 05:40:02 am
Post by: lordcooper on August 10, 2012, 08:02:59 am
Quote
Jake Cooper
Thursday Aug 9, 3:38am EDT
Why are you running a Kickstarter for a project that already succeeded?
Thomas Nyman
Thursday Aug 9, 3:49pm EDT
Hey Jake! That's a great question. Actually the previous campaign succeeded in getting a small amount however the amount REALLY needed just for animation is $6,000. so Smaller campaigns of 500 guarantees that whatever money that is raised we actually do get to keep it and I personally won't be tempted to dip into the funds for other things for LEGENDS. THese funds are JUST for the animation while the other "merchandise" (hats, posters, etc...) come from my direct pocket................ sorry I know that was the long drawn out answer. but that's why. =)
The man is an arse.
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 10, 2012, 08:08:43 am
I'm torn. On the one hand, he is as much as admitting that he has zero self control. He is running several small campaigns rather than one big one so he is not tempted to 'dip into' the funds. This tells me that he thinks he will dip into the funds for personal expenses not related to the project.QuoteJake Cooper
Thursday Aug 9, 3:38am EDT
Why are you running a Kickstarter for a project that already succeeded?
Thomas Nyman
Thursday Aug 9, 3:49pm EDT
Hey Jake! That's a great question. Actually the previous campaign succeeded in getting a small amount however the amount REALLY needed just for animation is $6,000. so Smaller campaigns of 500 guarantees that whatever money that is raised we actually do get to keep it and I personally won't be tempted to dip into the funds for other things for LEGENDS. THese funds are JUST for the animation while the other "merchandise" (hats, posters, etc...) come from my direct pocket................ sorry I know that was the long drawn out answer. but that's why. =)
The man is an arse.
On the other hand, he has acknowledged this problem and actively taken measures to prevent himself from doing it.
On the third hand (alien), this could easily be an attempt at disguising an income stream. If he runs a successful campaign once a month for $500, he is making money. He could be seeing how long he can do this without being called out/caught.
Post by: lordcooper on August 10, 2012, 08:15:12 am
Post by: Rez on August 10, 2012, 09:40:40 am
Report this rat right now.
No need for pity. He actually comes right out and says, unabashedly, that he won't use the funds for the project and that his whole scheme is set up around incremental payments, which is not how kickstarter works. He's glib about his breach of contract, going so far as to include a smiley face in his response. Enraging.
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 10, 2012, 10:03:43 am
Post by: Gantolandon on August 10, 2012, 11:43:36 am
Post by: Bdthemag on August 11, 2012, 06:52:32 am
He is also working around the idea of only getting money if you meet your goal. He says right there that he is doing smaller campaigns so that if they raise less than the overall goal they still get the lesser amountOr if he raises less than the total goal, he can pocket the spare cash without much trouble.
Post by: Microcline on September 28, 2012, 01:46:26 am
Post by: lordcooper on September 29, 2012, 01:25:58 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on September 29, 2012, 01:44:10 pm
Post by: Sensei on September 29, 2012, 01:48:47 pm
Anyone checked up in Bunky lately?I did a little digging and not much seems to be going on, so far.
The website, Your World Inc.org (http://yourworldinc.org/), has been slightly redesigned but still includes an ugly "Owner login" button. There's also Your World Inc.com (http://yourworldinc.com) which still prominently features some pic from deviantart, but it says it's being redesigned and the forums and shop are unavailable. I think he had both websites for a while.
There's a Twitter channel (http://twitter channel). Posts are hilariously stupid but no posts since July.
There is ONE good thing I found though: It's actually been out since april, but there's a youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORQ_PqkHzx0) in which some makeup-laden woman hired by Bunky extolls the virtues of Your World. She looks like she'd rather be doing anything else and has never played a video game in her life, except maybe Farmville. You can also tell she just filmed it in a room in her apartment or something, judging from the acoustics.
So yeah, he might have actually given up, for now at least. I wouldn't be surprised to see something of this coming back though. Anybody tried emailing him? I don't feel like contaminating my contacts list with his address but one might actually get some kind of informative reply out of it.
Post by: zombie urist on September 29, 2012, 02:08:58 pm
Post by: Robosaur on September 29, 2012, 11:24:47 pm
Post by: Aklyon on September 29, 2012, 11:29:13 pm
Quote
Created using YouTube Video EditorTHis is the first and last time I've seen this be a relevant thing, and its not doing any favors to the videos credibility, nor its crushing amount of dislikes.
Post by: Draco18s on September 29, 2012, 11:33:04 pm
QuoteCreated using YouTube Video EditorTHis is the first and last time I've seen this be a relevant thing, and its not doing any favors to the videos credibility, nor its crushing amount of dislikes.
$10 says she is either a) a prostitute hired off Craig's List or b) his mother/sister/daughter/girlfriend.
But yeah.
So terrible.
Edit:
THE COMMENTS, THE COMMENTS ARE EVEN BETTER.
Quote from: Bunky
I allowed [the above comment bashing Blizzard] because I recently got an email from blizzard saying they will crush me if I make my game. :-)
Quote from: Bunky
What was it about spore you didn't like?
Post by: Aklyon on September 29, 2012, 11:42:34 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on September 29, 2012, 11:47:10 pm
QuoteCreated using YouTube Video EditorTHis is the first and last time I've seen this be a relevant thing, and its not doing any favors to the videos credibility, nor its crushing amount of dislikes.
$10 says she is either a) a prostitute hired off Craig's List or b) his mother/sister/daughter/girlfriend.
But yeah.
So terrible.
Edit:
THE COMMENTS, THE COMMENTS ARE EVEN BETTER.Quote from: BunkyI allowed [the above comment bashing Blizzard] because I recently got an email from blizzard saying they will crush me if I make my game. :-)Quote from: BunkyWhat was it about spore you didn't like?
That's a lot of roles for one person to fill.
Post by: kaijyuu on September 29, 2012, 11:51:06 pm
Post by: Draco18s on September 29, 2012, 11:52:51 pm
That's a lot of roles for one person to fill.
You're supposed to pick one.
Post by: Sensei on September 30, 2012, 04:19:03 am
What do you want to bet it's a prank email from some random yahoo?Quote from: BunkyI allowed [the above comment bashing Blizzard] because I recently got an email from blizzard saying they will crush me if I make my game. :-)
Post by: scriver on September 30, 2012, 05:38:04 am
Post by: kaijyuu on September 30, 2012, 10:52:35 am
Post by: Draco18s on September 30, 2012, 10:59:25 am
Blizzard needs to validate your account! Reply with your name, address, password, and all your credit cards!
Also your bank account number and routing information.
Post by: Leafsnail on September 30, 2012, 11:01:12 am
Post by: GoombaGeek on September 30, 2012, 11:16:25 am
Watch the video and try to not fall out of your chair from sheer pretentiousness.
The worst part is that they made half a million dollars in a month for an object test demo. I checked and that's way more than Toady has made in eight years for making an actual enjoyable (and free) game. There is no justice in this world :'(
Post by: MrWiggles on September 30, 2012, 11:19:57 am
Post by: GoombaGeek on September 30, 2012, 11:22:27 am
The thing that bugs me about the YogCast game, is thats its so fuckin MineCraft Like. Which I guess is fine, but they dont provide any tools to make producing machinima any easier? That just seems dumb.Their entire thing is "We're exactly like Minecraft, except more pretentious!". Also, I recently played Kirby 64 (great game) and noticed something.
Kirby 64 has better explosions than the Yogventures demo video that raised $500,000.
>:U
Post by: Flying Dice on September 30, 2012, 11:24:17 am
To be fair, Kirby 64 was a pretty amazing game.
Post by: MrWiggles on September 30, 2012, 11:25:17 am
They're just jabbering blithering idiots.
Post by: Furtuka on September 30, 2012, 11:28:31 am
I never got the point of YogsCast.
They're just jabbering blithering idiots.
Could the same not be said for most LP-ers?
Post by: MorleyDev on September 30, 2012, 11:32:30 am
Post by: Draco18s on September 30, 2012, 11:36:27 am
What about the Yogscast game?
My brain, it hurts.
Post by: GoombaGeek on September 30, 2012, 11:51:35 am
Great, yet another reason for me to dislike Yogscast.I know, it rocks and now they released it as a bundle with five other old Kirby games :D so that's my weekend right there
To be fair, Kirby 64 was a pretty amazing game.
It would be really great if they made a new version of that with more of the newer abilities, and kept the mixing, and put all the animal friends back in too. It sounds really unoriginal but there would just be so much to try out and games have enough memory for 6(x2) different abilities now anyway, right?
also this description
Quote from: Some guy fresh out of college
Importantly, we want YOU to be involved at every stage in the development of the game - from funding it here on Kickstarter to guiding the developers on where to focus their efforts. We have a forum set up for players to submit ideas and feedback and we’ll work with you to make those ideas a reality. We’re going to run monthly polls asking for the community to decide what features, elements, or community mods are added to the game. Just some of the features which will be included are:
Beautiful, randomly-generated game worlds that are different every time you start a new Yogventure
minecraft also dwarf fortress
Fully shapeable terrain - with the ability for players to raise a mountain range or create a vast ocean; you can effortlessly shape your world however you imagine it
minecraft
A wealth of novel building materials, creatures, NPCs and items
minecraft also dwarf fortress
A rich underground to mine and explore - bristling with rare outcroppings of gems and crystals, hidden tombs and dark underground terrors that drop rare weapons and loot
minecraft also dwarf fortress
A fully-fleshed out crafting system
minecraft also dwarf fortress
An in-game physics engine that will even effect the blocks you place in your creations
fps death
The ability to customise your own unique avatar or play as one of your favourite Yogscast characters
it's a good thing this isn't in Dwarf Fortress
Easy-to-use in-game modding API including in-game scripting
dwarf fortress
Ability for modders to have a chance to get their work added to the game
minecraft
Regularly released video updates from the developers including the latest feature additions
minecraft also dwarf fortress
gosh
Post by: SirAaronIII on September 30, 2012, 12:16:18 pm
It would be really great if they made a new version of that with more of the newer abilities, and kept the mixing, and put all the animal friends back in too. It sounds really unoriginal but there would just be so much to try out and games have enough memory for 6(x2) different abilities now anyway, right?Yesss I just loved the ability mixing. Even if all I ever did was lightning swords.
Post by: GoombaGeek on September 30, 2012, 12:17:17 pm
And the exploding ninja stars. And the fridge!It would be really great if they made a new version of that with more of the newer abilities, and kept the mixing, and put all the animal friends back in too. It sounds really unoriginal but there would just be so much to try out and games have enough memory for 6(x2) different abilities now anyway, right?Yesss I just loved the ability mixing. Even if all I ever did was lightning swords.
Post by: kaijyuu on September 30, 2012, 12:17:46 pm
Post by: SomeStupidGuy on September 30, 2012, 12:20:23 pm
And then I saw the whole Yogventures thing, which honestly I could not give a shit about.
It's not even amusingly bad.
It's just a mediocre Minecraft with marginally good graphics because apparently that's what everyone wanted out of it...
Erm, sorry for the mini rant. For about two months my brother was obsessed with the whole yogventures thing, that kinda soured me on something I wasn't all that enthused about to begin with.
Also, I need to play Kirby 64 now.
Post by: MrWiggles on September 30, 2012, 12:22:58 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on September 30, 2012, 12:36:25 pm
Post by: MorleyDev on September 30, 2012, 12:38:47 pm
Here's a funny, so on altdevblogaday one of the blog posts was about how to do a successful kickstarter. (http://www.altdevblogaday.com/2012/09/04/want-to-get-kickstarted-heres-what-you-need-to-know/) It was practically nothing but a list of things that should be common sense. And then the kickstarter this person was doing? Tanked horrible, got 20 backers and raised about $191.
Post by: Neonivek on September 30, 2012, 12:55:12 pm
Also are you SURPRISED his project failed... Here is the EXACT pitch
"A competitive puzzle game that takes classic gameplay to the next level with new features+online play"
Can you get anymore buzz words in there?
Competative, Classic gameplay, The Next Level, Online Play, New Features
It is actually embarassing.
Now if you will excuse me I have to start my Kickstarter page
"New Indie classic roleplaying game that takes next generation to the next level with online play, social features, and motion control"
Post by: Draco18s on September 30, 2012, 01:01:43 pm
"New Indie classic roleplaying game that takes next generation to the next level with online play, social features, and motion control"
You forgot "virtual reality" (or "augmented reality"). Also "3D" and "HTML5"
Post by: Flying Dice on September 30, 2012, 01:05:52 pm
Post by: Neonivek on September 30, 2012, 01:10:05 pm
Post by: lordcooper on September 30, 2012, 01:10:32 pm
"New Innovative Classic Augmented Reality Roleplaying game that takes next generation to the next level IN 3D with online play, social features in HTML5, and motion control"
Fool, I just grabbed the patent.
Post by: Neonivek on September 30, 2012, 01:13:46 pm
My game is actually
"New Innovative Classic Augmented Reality Roleplaying Indie game that takes next generation to the next level IN 3D with online play, social features in HTML5, and motion control"
Post by: lordcooper on September 30, 2012, 01:15:23 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on September 30, 2012, 02:28:59 pm
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on September 30, 2012, 03:01:02 pm
doubleplusgood doubleplusnew FTP3DMMOFBLOLOLORPG (http://www.kenexa.com/portals/0/Images/like-thumb.png)
Post by: GoombaGeek on September 30, 2012, 05:41:36 pm
"$25: Get a FREE copy of Dwarf Fortress!"
"$50: Get a FREE short story or piece of original artwork along with your FREE copy of Dwarf Fortress!!"
"$100: All of the above, plus a FREE membership on the Bay12 Forums!!"
Post by: Neonivek on September 30, 2012, 05:42:57 pm
Customisable online play.
"New Innovative Classic Augmented Reality Roleplaying Indie game that takes next generation to the next level IN 3D with Customisable online play, social features in HTML5, and motion control"
Post by: Gantolandon on September 30, 2012, 05:48:41 pm
Post by: Fenrir on September 30, 2012, 06:03:45 pm
Features:
- Player generated content
- Innovative combat mechanics
- Compelling storyline
- Rich atmosphere
- Fast-paced gameplay
- Player-centric structure
- Player-run shops
- Non-linear quests
- PvP in SPAAAACE!
- Custom avatars
- Over 10 unique races: space humans, space dwarfs, Keebler elves, and more!
- Over 20 classes
- 3238425 items
- 3D rendering engine with bloom effects
I am going to be rich.
Post by: Gantolandon on September 30, 2012, 06:19:31 pm
We should start a Kickstarter rewards service for Dwarf Fortress.
"$25: Get a FREE copy of Dwarf Fortress!"
"$50: Get a FREE short story or piece of original artwork along with your FREE copy of Dwarf Fortress!!"
"$100: All of the above, plus a FREE membership on the Bay12 Forums!!"
It won't work with Kickstarter, too late. There is an actual playable game right now, after all. It should have been done with a long description, two mockups and a tech demo showing a single dwarf mining siltstone all the time.
Post by: MarcAFK on October 01, 2012, 10:44:41 am
Ok so i was looking for a Dwarf digging siltstone, and sadly i found lots of minecraft diggy hole yogscast crap D:We should start a Kickstarter rewards service for Dwarf Fortress.
"$25: Get a FREE copy of Dwarf Fortress!"
"$50: Get a FREE short story or piece of original artwork along with your FREE copy of Dwarf Fortress!!"
"$100: All of the above, plus a FREE membership on the Bay12 Forums!!"
It won't work with Kickstarter, too late. There is an actual playable game right now, after all. It should have been done with a long description, two mockups and a tech demo showing a single dwarf mining siltstone all the time.
Post by: PTTG?? on October 01, 2012, 10:54:43 am
$50: Keychain
$75: ALL OF THE ABOVE AND: Screen-printed pen
$150: ALL OF THE ABOVE AND: Dynamic interactive immersive communication in the new media of subspace harmonics.
$300: ALL OF THE ABOVE AND: Priority pre-ordering of pre-ordering priority for pre-purchace of finished retail entertainment containment field experience.
$500: ALL OF THE ABOVE AND: A piece of paper signed by the artist. May be a napkin.
Post by: JanusTwoface on October 01, 2012, 11:00:03 am
Crowdfunding: a Guide to What Works and Why (Canceled) (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/glennf/crowdfunding-a-guide-to-what-works-and-why)
Post by: Draco18s on October 01, 2012, 11:26:13 am
I'm not sure if this counts as Kickstarter going wrong or doing exactly what it's indented to do, but it's just too amusing to pass up:
Crowdfunding: a Guide to What Works and Why (Canceled) (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/glennf/crowdfunding-a-guide-to-what-works-and-why)
17 days in he realized that his own advice wasn't working? :P
Post by: nenjin on October 01, 2012, 11:37:04 am
I'm not sure if this counts as Kickstarter going wrong or doing exactly what it's indented to do, but it's just too amusing to pass up:
Crowdfunding: a Guide to What Works and Why (Canceled) (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/glennf/crowdfunding-a-guide-to-what-works-and-why)
17 days in he realized that his own advice wasn't working? :P
Tip #1: Don't start stupid Kickstarter projects. :P
Post by: Neonivek on October 01, 2012, 12:21:04 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on October 14, 2012, 06:26:52 pm
So this project: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/leviathaninteractive/project-lodus-a-cyberpunk-co-op-action-rpg/
Manage to magically get over half its funding goal on the last day.
This blog postulates that that is an attempt at gaming the system to not lose on the 22k they did actually raise and donated to themselves.
http://caffeineforge.com/2012/10/14/when-good-kickstarters-go-bad/
Post by: Karlito on October 14, 2012, 06:47:50 pm
EDIT: If you define a potential bot as someone with no location, no picture, and no other backed projects then by my count only 34 of the last 112 backers (who would have backed on the last day) fall into that category, so it seems like they did get a significant bump in real backers on the last day. It's a shame we can't see how the pledges were distributed among the backers.
Post by: Leafsnail on October 14, 2012, 07:01:15 pm
Post by: Sensei on October 14, 2012, 10:20:06 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 15, 2012, 06:51:10 am
Bots? I bet I could make 112 accounts in a day with enough proxies and mailinator accounts.Especially if I knew I'd be getting 22 thousand dollars for the project if I did it.
Post by: Darvi on October 15, 2012, 07:01:42 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 15, 2012, 07:41:52 am
Although that's kinda missing the point of KS isn't it? If you think that you could fund your project with 22k, why not set the threshold that low? If you don't think that's enough, then why even attempt to get so little money unless you're doing a blatant and obvious scam that would cause you to not get the money anyway?They may be pursuing the rest of the funding through another KS or through other donation sites.
Post by: Sensei on October 15, 2012, 09:28:58 am
Post by: Gantolandon on October 15, 2012, 10:51:39 am
Post by: Draco18s on October 15, 2012, 11:43:59 am
I know you guys awaited a time machine (http://www.indiegogo.com/atimemachine) very long. Look at these rewards!
Wat.
Post by: nenjin on October 15, 2012, 11:46:20 am
I know you guys awaited a time machine (http://www.indiegogo.com/atimemachine) very long. Look at these rewards!
Wat.
Welcome to where crowdsourcing and lulz meet. People don't need to actually be making something, they just need to post a project that's stupid and amusing, and if they make money, whatever, fuck you, it was a joke!
Post by: Draco18s on October 15, 2012, 11:59:42 am
I know you guys awaited a time machine (http://www.indiegogo.com/atimemachine) very long. Look at these rewards!
Wat.
Welcome to where crowdsourcing and lulz meet. People don't need to actually be making something, they just need to post a project that's stupid and amusing, and if they make money, whatever, fuck you, it was a joke!
Oh I know. I was pointing out the sheer absurdity of the project itself.
Post by: MrWiggles on October 15, 2012, 12:00:29 pm
Post by: Draco18s on October 15, 2012, 12:14:23 pm
Well, while that was quite amusing, Indiegogo shouldnt have approved that project.
Not at all. Not at all...
Post by: Gantolandon on October 15, 2012, 12:19:06 pm
Post by: Draco18s on October 15, 2012, 12:21:42 pm
Butbutbut... no one of you wants to KILL HITLER? :o
He's already dead.
Also, causality.
Post by: Darvi on October 15, 2012, 12:23:03 pm
I think I pulled the trigger or something.
Post by: Draco18s on October 15, 2012, 12:36:09 pm
Because we already killed him, exactly!
I think I pulled the trigger or something.
Q: Why'd we kill him on 30 April 1945, before the end of WW2, and not, say six years prior?
Post by: Gantolandon on October 15, 2012, 12:38:55 pm
Post by: Darvi on October 15, 2012, 12:42:39 pm
Dude, do you seriously think we didn't try? He's no Rasputin, but he was damn lucky when it came to avoiding death.Because we already killed him, exactly!
I think I pulled the trigger or something.
Q: Why'd we kill him on 30 April 1945, before the end of WW2, and not, say six years prior?
Post by: lordcooper on October 16, 2012, 05:16:39 am
Because we already killed him, exactly!
I think I pulled the trigger or something.
Q: Why'd we kill him on 30 April 1945, before the end of WW2, and not, say six years prior?
A: Wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff prevented this.
Post by: scriver on October 16, 2012, 05:22:38 am
Because we already killed him, exactly!
I think I pulled the trigger or something.
Q: Why'd we kill him on 30 April 1945, before the end of WW2, and not, say six years prior?A: Wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff prevented this.
A: Because we just didn't manage to kill him before then.
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on October 16, 2012, 07:10:20 am
Post by: Jopax on October 16, 2012, 07:24:35 am
Post by: Draco18s on October 16, 2012, 08:19:18 am
What if he succeeds tho?
The time machine guy? You really think he's going to build a working time machine on $500.
Post by: Wayward Device on October 16, 2012, 10:10:33 am
The time machine guy? You really think he's going to build a working time machine?on $500.
FTFY.
Post by: lordcooper on October 16, 2012, 10:12:00 am
Post by: Draco18s on October 16, 2012, 11:13:52 am
The time machine guy? You really think he's going to build a working time machine?on $500.
FTFY.
I was willing to assume that a machine was possible (I know it's not, of course). I'll also point out that the guy admits to not having a college degree of any kind.
Post by: Jopax on October 16, 2012, 03:49:16 pm
Wierder stuff has happened :p
Post by: Shadowlord on October 16, 2012, 04:48:57 pm
Post by: kilakan on October 16, 2012, 04:53:21 pm
Post by: jester on October 16, 2012, 05:41:35 pm
Then the universe can go POP.
Post by: SealyStar on October 16, 2012, 05:48:20 pm
Post by: Draco18s on October 16, 2012, 06:40:14 pm
well, if they discover wormholes, yes, it is technically possible by moving one end of the wormhole around at high speeds, resulting in one wormhole being older than the other.
1) if you discover a wormhole you've already got time travel (you exceed the speed of light in 3-space)
2) whipping one end around very fast doesn't actually do anything.
Post by: GoombaGeek on October 16, 2012, 06:50:27 pm
After about a month, they have a copy of the Minecraft engine that doesn't display constructed blocks correctly.
To be fair, though, if it was just me working on a game I'd be having trouble too.
Post by: MrWiggles on October 16, 2012, 08:01:09 pm
The Yogscast game is looking better and better.If I recall, they hired out a gaming company to make it for them.
After about a month, they have a copy of the Minecraft engine that doesn't display constructed blocks correctly.
To be fair, though, if it was just me working on a game I'd be having trouble too.
And I dont think the YogCast guys are capable of making a game, I also dont think they have much input on the game at all.
Post by: GoombaGeek on October 16, 2012, 08:02:45 pm
The gaming company consists of one college student, I'm almost certain.The Yogscast game is looking better and better.If I recall, they hired out a gaming company to make it for them.
After about a month, they have a copy of the Minecraft engine that doesn't display constructed blocks correctly.
To be fair, though, if it was just me working on a game I'd be having trouble too.
And I dont think the YogCast guys are capable of making a game, I also dont think they have much input on the game at all.
Post by: MrWiggles on October 16, 2012, 08:26:17 pm
The gaming company consists of one college student, I'm almost certain.The Yogscast game is looking better and better.If I recall, they hired out a gaming company to make it for them.
After about a month, they have a copy of the Minecraft engine that doesn't display constructed blocks correctly.
To be fair, though, if it was just me working on a game I'd be having trouble too.
And I dont think the YogCast guys are capable of making a game, I also dont think they have much input on the game at all.
God damn...
That makes it even worse then. All that money, through at someone who not even out of school yet? On a first project?
Post by: GoombaGeek on October 16, 2012, 08:28:42 pm
Well, the guy's username is "Winterkewl Games", and the avatar is a picture of his face.The gaming company consists of one college student, I'm almost certain.The Yogscast game is looking better and better.If I recall, they hired out a gaming company to make it for them.
After about a month, they have a copy of the Minecraft engine that doesn't display constructed blocks correctly.
To be fair, though, if it was just me working on a game I'd be having trouble too.
And I dont think the YogCast guys are capable of making a game, I also dont think they have much input on the game at all.
God damn...
That makes it even worse then. All that money, through at someone who not even out of school yet? On a first project?
I made up the college part, but look at him: If he isn't still in college, he's definitely a fresh graduate, and it's definitely just the one guy too (since the picture is him smiling, not a company logo). He's pretty young to be handling a project that people thought was worth $500,000 in pre-development donations alone.
Post by: Draco18s on October 16, 2012, 08:44:20 pm
Post by: GoombaGeek on October 16, 2012, 08:50:13 pm
Wait, why is that a GOOD thing for the game?Sarcasm.
This game is shaping up to be the worst piece of shit ever to come out of Kickstarter.
Especially for half a million dollars.
Post by: Draco18s on October 16, 2012, 09:29:02 pm
Wait, why is that a GOOD thing for the game?Sarcasm.
Doesn't translate well into text. :)
Post by: MrWiggles on October 17, 2012, 03:47:37 am
Post by: olemars on October 17, 2012, 06:30:51 am
Post by: Draco18s on October 17, 2012, 08:29:46 am
I guess that yogscast game you're talking about is the same that got greenlit by Steam today?
You're joking. :|
Your not joking (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=92983551&searchtext=).
*HEAVY SIGH*
Theres a punctuation for sarcasm.
Yes there is, and ironically, my broswer doesn't recognize it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm#Sarcasm_punctuation
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 17, 2012, 08:52:39 am
Post by: nenjin on October 17, 2012, 09:29:29 am
Two silly British Twits + Their obsession with Minecraft + INTERNET MONEY + some other stuff like programming = PROFIT!
I'm just jaded though. I'm fucking sick of Youtube personality cults to my core, and Yogcast ranks up there as one of the most inane to me. And the fact they basically can't think beyond the game that made them internet famous makes me not care in the slightest bit about what they're doing. The fact it's on Steam Greenlight now is just runny chocolate syrup on top of a crap sundae. They have a barely functional alpha and they already get free advertising. Because, apparently, internet famous means people should pay attention to you even when there's no earthly reason for it.
Post by: SealyStar on October 17, 2012, 02:53:24 pm
Theres a punctuation for sarcasm.
It's funny. I actually just found an article on that subject right before reading this.
DAMMIT, COINCIDENCES
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 19, 2012, 06:42:40 am
Post by: Draco18s on October 19, 2012, 07:01:08 am
hordes of screaming fanboys with more money than sense, I guess.
(http://memearchive.net/memerial.net/5551/chinese-apple-store.jpg)
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 19, 2012, 07:05:26 am
Indeed, apple is just as guilty of shoveling crap into the rabid gaping maws of fanboys in exchange for handfuls of money.hordes of screaming fanboys with more money than sense, I guess.
(http://memearchive.net/memerial.net/5551/chinese-apple-store.jpg)
Post by: alway on October 19, 2012, 09:01:26 am
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20003916
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/10/19/money-troubles-what-happens-when-kickstarters-fail/
Seems a game called 'Haunts,' funded via kickstarter, may fall through. Mostly because they no longer have any programmers. And it was written in 'Go,' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(programming_language)) so finding devs capable of continuing the work is trickier.
Post by: Leafsnail on October 20, 2012, 10:52:37 pm
edit: Actually I guess there's plenty of undelievered stuff, just this is the first one to admit it's really in trouble.
Here's one for you.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/991262180/heaven
I haven't checked whether it's a good idea for a Kickstarter or whether the rewards make sense but you really need to watch the video.
Post by: SomeStupidGuy on October 20, 2012, 11:13:17 pm
Post by: Hubris Incalculable on October 20, 2012, 11:54:15 pm
You're joking. :|
You're not joking (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=92983551&searchtext=).
*HEAVY SIGH*
That looks like a poorly rendered version of Sauerbraten with a custom player model.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on October 21, 2012, 12:12:35 am
Why in the hell would anyone look at that video and think,'Yep, some dude sitting around in a sheep mask represents exactly what we want to accomplish.'?
It's probably a camel mask, since, and I quote:
Quote from: Kickstarter Page
I decided sheep were not strong enough to hold the interest of boys in HEAVEN's age group. Too soft.
I still have no clue how camels relate to a Christianity-based board game though.
Post by: Shadowlord on October 21, 2012, 12:19:16 am
Quote from: Kickstarter PageI decided sheep were not strong enough to hold the interest of boys in HEAVEN's age group. Too soft.
I still have no clue how camels relate to a Christianity-based board game though.
Heaven's age group? Is that -0.75 to 6000?
Post by: Sensei on October 21, 2012, 12:33:12 am
Quote
= [ALL RIGHTS RESERVED]= What I and many people did not realize is that by launching our ideas on public funding sites, we risk losing them to hackers, pirates & copycats combing the pages."ORIGINAL CHARACTER DO NOT STEAL"
And you know what else? Every single word of that same paragraph. I tried to cherry pick so I could make snarky comments but I realized that there's nothing in there I can justify cutting out. It continues:
Quote
People in the USA are still considered the world's idea people, so we have become digital targets all across America as reported on CNN September 2012. It’s easier and cheaper to steal others work after they’ve spent years developing it. Most small businesses and people like me do not have high or mid-level security on our computers so its relatively easy compared to stealing from big businesses. Even the names are at risk. That’s my risk in going public. What if it were your ministry of 8 years and your passion? Please pray with us that HEAVEN does not fail during anti-crime, anti-violence, anti-bully month of October.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on October 21, 2012, 01:17:41 am
Quote from: Kickstarter PageI decided sheep were not strong enough to hold the interest of boys in HEAVEN's age group. Too soft.
I still have no clue how camels relate to a Christianity-based board game though.
Heaven's age group? Is that -0.75 to 6000?
Only God knows (probably because he's the one who set it).
Post by: penguinofhonor on October 21, 2012, 02:25:22 am
It could well be the first fully funded Kickstarter to completely fall through (did those Zionist sunglasses actually get made in the end? I forget). It's gonna be tough to get a programmer for an obscure language if he's out of money... do Kickstarter allow you to seek other forms of funding after your Kickstarter is funded?
edit: Actually I guess there's plenty of undelievered stuff, just this is the first one to admit it's really in trouble.
Here's one for you.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/991262180/heaven
I haven't checked whether it's a good idea for a Kickstarter or whether the rewards make sense but you really need to watch the video.
That is the most terrifying video I have ever seen.
Quote
Above: New box cover art set on factory die-lines.
See the Bible? The cartoonist monk created the gates using Biblical descriptions. He referred to the story of Jacob's ladder saying there was only one Bible version that gave a description.
Quote
See the Bible? The cartoonist monk created the gates using Biblical descriptions.
Quote
cartoonist monk
I want one.
Post by: Neonivek on October 21, 2012, 02:30:17 am
I really question that article because I fully expect that people are intelligent enough to realise this. It seems like it is calming people down that don't exist (and that I hope don't exist) who forgot that kickstarter is a way to "fund" a game and not a way to "buy" a game.
Post by: Valid_Dark on October 25, 2012, 01:44:46 am
Post by: lordcooper on December 03, 2012, 12:40:19 am
$28 short of their $50,000 goal. That's gotta burn.
I don't really think people who fund games that essentially fail should really expect their money back if that money was spent in the process of doing so and certainly should not expect "all" their money back.
I...agree :o
Post by: penguinofhonor on December 03, 2012, 01:27:09 am
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 03, 2012, 01:40:17 am
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1547218311/alpha-colony-an-exploration-building-and-trading-g
$28 short of their $50,000 goal. That's gotta burn.I don't really think people who fund games that essentially fail should really expect their money back if that money was spent in the process of doing so and certainly should not expect "all" their money back.
I...agree :o
Since the creators are allowed to fund their own projects, and it was so close, I can only assume they decided they didn't really waant to do the project at that price after all - that they were honestly hoping for a larger windfall.
Ah well.
Post by: Draco18s on December 03, 2012, 08:51:41 am
Since the creators are allowed to fund their own projects, and it was so close, I can only assume they decided they didn't really waant to do the project at that price after all - that they were honestly hoping for a larger windfall.
Uh? You can't back your own project.
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 03, 2012, 09:09:08 am
Hmm... well, I'm sure they know people in real life who could have of. Come on - it was 28 dollars. Wouldn't exactly have taken much of a push.
Post by: Draco18s on December 03, 2012, 10:25:17 am
Ah, looking into it, apparently they disallow it because the banks see it as illegal. :P
Yeah, it's called Credit Card Fraud.
Post by: olemars on December 05, 2012, 04:27:15 am
Surely seems to be many layers of fail present here.
Post by: Servant Corps on December 07, 2012, 12:50:58 am
EDIT: And apparently MULE was already remade (http://www.planetmule.com/) anyway so...the project seems even more pointless.
EDIT2: If "donating to your own Kickstarter so as to secure other people's donations" is a valid tactic, my respect for Kickstarter has dropped tremendously. The platform is far too open to abuse.
Post by: olemars on December 07, 2012, 03:33:54 am
EDIT2: If "donating to your own Kickstarter so as to secure other people's donations" is a valid tactic, my respect for Kickstarter has dropped tremendously. The platform is far too open to abuse.
It's not a valid tactic, it's against the rules and considered money laundering by banks.
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2012, 03:38:18 am
EDIT2: If "donating to your own Kickstarter so as to secure other people's donations" is a valid tactic, my respect for Kickstarter has dropped tremendously. The platform is far too open to abuse.
It's not a valid tactic, it's against the rules and considered money laundering by banks.
It wouldn't be money laundering... though it being against the rules is certainly telling.
I actually had no issue with donating to yourself "IF" there is an actual obligation to use that money... but when I look at what most people use the money on.
A lot of kickstarters do not use their donations on the game. A lot of them are really "Pay me for an extended vacation so I can work on this game more".
I mean I cannot blame some of them for pocketing their funding when they are overfunded... but still there is a certain part of me that goes "Wait... we are paying you to make a game, that you will sell and pocket the money? I am feeling almost like there is an inbalance here"
Post by: olemars on December 07, 2012, 04:11:04 am
Here's the patent in question: ”Simultaneous multiple layer curing in stereolithography.” (http://www.google.com/patents/US5597520?dq=5,597,520&hl=en&sa=X&ei=5LHBUK7XHKaC4gSrkICoCg&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA)
Post by: Karlito on December 07, 2012, 08:56:59 am
Post by: Draco18s on December 07, 2012, 09:38:18 am
EDIT2: If "donating to your own Kickstarter so as to secure other people's donations" is a valid tactic, my respect for Kickstarter has dropped tremendously. The platform is far too open to abuse.
It's not a valid tactic, it's against the rules and considered money laundering by banks.
It wouldn't be money laundering... though it being against the rules is certainly telling.
Also, Amazon will detect you paying yourself and lock your funds, preventing you from getting that money entirely.
Post by: Leafsnail on December 07, 2012, 01:23:57 pm
Post by: Draco18s on December 07, 2012, 03:12:42 pm
If the project has multiple people working on it though you could likely get around that.
Yes, it's entirely possible. At which point you have to consider the 5-10% fee for using the service (both Kickstarter and Amazon take a cut).
But yes, in the case of the project that failed by $28 it'd have been worth calling up Grandma and telling her you'll pay her back.
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2012, 03:48:19 pm
Kickstarter fully supports and encourages Imbezzlement.
It is actually one of my largest issues with it. You never can know how much someone imbezzles and by all means they have the "right" to imbezzle.
Kickstarter is only against being obvious about the fact that all the kickstarter is, is a "give me money" drive.
Note: I am somewhat aware that Embezzle is spelt incorrectly.
Post by: Draco18s on December 07, 2012, 06:03:40 pm
Kickstarter fully supports and encourages Imbezzlement.
Embezzlement. With an E.
Your browser has a spellchecker for a reason.
Secondly: ENCOURAGES?
Note: I am somewhat aware that Embezzle is spelt incorrectly.
1) Spell it correctly please
2) "Spelled" is the correct past tense version of "to spell."
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2012, 06:10:13 pm
Quote
Your browser has a spellchecker for a reason
No it really doesn't.
Post by: Draco18s on December 07, 2012, 06:12:46 pm
QuoteYour browser has a spellchecker for a reason
No it really doesn't.
The hell are you using? Internet Explorer 6?
Post by: SomeStupidGuy on December 07, 2012, 07:31:22 pm
Maybe he's trying to say that his browser has a spell-check for no reason.QuoteYour browser has a spellchecker for a reason
No it really doesn't.
The hell are you using? Internet Explorer 6?
Post by: MrWiggles on December 07, 2012, 09:03:37 pm
So that kickstarter, from what I can is to make large enough order for custom set of Catan Board Pieces. Its not to start a business, exactly, or fund making the new board pieces. Its to make a large enough order that it wont be stupidly expensive.
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2012, 09:21:36 pm
And yes I do mean Encourages Embezzlement. There is nothing that stops people from taking huge amounts of money from this and pocketing large amounts of it. Since the "Rewards" outright encourages the developers to do so... and often doing so.
So it is one of the ways Kickstarter goes wrong.
Post by: Draco18s on December 08, 2012, 01:31:05 am
And yes I do mean Encourages Embezzlement. There is nothing that stops people from taking huge amounts of money from this and pocketing large amounts of it.
"Allows" is not the same as "Encourages."
Encourages means that Kickstarter advertises itself as a money laundering service. I.e. "Hey developers: you don't have to do shit, and if you pay someone else to funnel money into your project, you CAN legally donate to your own project."
Not OK: Nappster ("pirate music! Get paid for it!")
OK: IsoHunt ("Search for stuff!")
Post by: Aklyon on December 08, 2012, 01:34:28 am
Post by: Draco18s on December 08, 2012, 12:04:29 pm
Isohunt got the law thrown at it anyway though.
And are still operating.
i.e. "they won" unlike Nappster.
(DuckDuckGo doesn't qualify, as it's litterally a google search stripped of all tracking information)
Post by: MorleyDev on December 08, 2012, 12:26:31 pm
A lot of kickstarters do not use their donations on the game. A lot of them are really "Pay me for an extended vacation so I can work on this game more".
...sorry, what do you think a Job is? It's when you're paid to do something. If someone is using the funding from Kickstarter to work full time a project without starving to death, then that's using the money as expected, is it not?
Post by: Criptfeind on December 08, 2012, 02:09:01 pm
Post by: Servant Corps on December 09, 2012, 04:04:55 pm
It could well be the first fully funded Kickstarter to completely fall through (did those Zionist sunglasses actually get made in the end? I forget).An update on ZionEyez: it appears that they cannot give out any refunds as they have already spent all that money on production. They blame unexpected production cost increases as the reason why they were unable to complete the project successfully. They supposedly got some new investors lined up, but they have to wait for the due diligence process to be completed. So it appears that no Zionist sunglasses will ever be made.
But all is not lost. The co-founder of ZionEyez (Joe Taylor) landed a sweet job working for Microsoft as Senior Mechanical Engineer, and ZionEyez managed to successfully gain a patent on their nonexistent sunglasses (http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20120224070) (possibly so that ZionEyez would be able to reinvent themselves as a patent troll company).
But as for the people who "donated" money for this project? They appear to be out of luck.
Kickstarter claims that it is not legally responsible for the actions of people soliciting money, and it serves merely as a platform. The only recourse then would be to sue ZionEyez.
===
EDIT: But just because Kickstarter claims no legal liability doesn't mean that people have to believe them. "Kickstarter is being sued for crowd-funding a 3D printer that may infringe on another company's patents." (http://www.techradar.com/news/internet/kickstarter-embroiled-in-3d-printer-lawsuit-1114573)
Post by: Neonivek on December 09, 2012, 04:09:05 pm
A lot of kickstarters do not use their donations on the game. A lot of them are really "Pay me for an extended vacation so I can work on this game more".
...sorry, what do you think a Job is? It's when you're paid to do something. If someone is using the funding from Kickstarter to work full time a project without starving to death, then that's using the money as expected, is it not?
Sure, of course! But then there are games that get over funded.
Post by: Draco18s on December 09, 2012, 04:19:55 pm
Sure, of course! But then there are games that get over funded.
My game got over-funded. Over 40 grand pleged.
After expenses cut per person: $300.
There's a reason I didn't quit my day job.
Post by: Neonivek on December 09, 2012, 04:23:41 pm
The ONLY way to use those pledges would be to take a vacation. Maybe get in a few massage chairs.
It is really the only time I have an issue with Kickstarter is that this is about funding a project and while funding your own salary for a game makes perfect sense... there is a point where this becomes less "We are funding the game" and more "We are giving you money to make a game you will make to make money".
also what are you doing cutting every person in on the deal?
Post by: Draco18s on December 09, 2012, 04:38:47 pm
Yes but lets say you got 500,000 thousand
If we got not 10 times what we asked but 100?
Why, I'd have gotten maybe a $3000 cut. Still not enough to quit my day job. 95% of our funds went directly to providing rewards.
Post by: Neonivek on December 09, 2012, 04:39:19 pm
Yes but lets say you got 500,000 thousand
If we got not 10 times what we asked but 100?
Why, I'd have gotten maybe a $3000 cut. Still not enough to quit my day job. 95% of our funds went directly to providing rewards.
Yikes what did you do wrong?
One of the goals is to make sure that the kickstarter rewards pay off.
I know that there have been kickstarters who had lost all their funding from their rewards (because they forgot how much postage costs... even worse when you consider the rewards that forget how much plane tickets and hotels cost) but that is really their own fault.
Unless the rewards was the entire point of the kickstarter (as it is for some, where they are just "preorders in disguise" except when they are not)
Post by: Draco18s on December 09, 2012, 04:44:48 pm
Yikes what did you do wrong?
Nothing, actually. We priced things out almost perfectly. We knew we needed to cover flat costs of about $4000 before we could even consider offering physical rewards. That $4000 went to Jenn for the art and Daniel Solis for design, a little for a lawyer, and then we had some other expenses that we took out from the total sum (things like "attending a con to pimp the game" and "business cards"). But every unit we'll be shipping will cost almost as much to produce and ship as we charged for it.
I don't have numbers at my finger tips, but it worked out with a very narrow margin. It might end up being larger later, we haven't actually sent anything to the printer yet, but based off some estimates we received, there wasn't much left over after printing a thousand copies (of which 730 go as rewards).
And you know what?
We're cool with that. Our goal was not to take a vacation, it was to make something cool.
Post by: Neonivek on December 09, 2012, 04:47:09 pm
Post by: nenjin on December 09, 2012, 05:09:46 pm
Which is why I'm starting to become leery of Kickstarters that offer a lot of physical rewards. It seems like the more rewards they offer, the farther away from their actual project they're getting.
That and 3rd party support for things like music and art, people who sell their expertise for a flat fee instead of being part of the team that take whatever is left over as their profit....they can quickly destroy the team's profit as well.
Post by: Draco18s on December 09, 2012, 05:23:46 pm
But when you're promising 4k t-shirts or baubles, that stuff eats up profit at an absurd rate.
Yes they do, which is why we didn't offer any such extras, because there was no way to figure out what to price them at such that we'd "make a profit" off of them.
Post by: nenjin on December 09, 2012, 05:51:17 pm
Which is why I think so many Kickstarters find themselves in trouble very quickly. They're making promises and assumptions without first properly vetting their costs. They map out rewards before they've actually gone out and made sure the manufacturing and shipping isn't going to bleed them dry. And I mean, I don't honestly blame people for doing that....but it's what happens when business amateurs jump in with both feet, not realizing success and profit require very tight and well thought-out financial planning.
Post by: Neonivek on December 09, 2012, 06:04:45 pm
I know I am one of the few people who are like this but I uttarly dislike "Go out and meet the producers" rewards. Mind you they will always be out of my price range and thus my complaint doesn't mean anything.
Post by: MorleyDev on December 09, 2012, 06:53:00 pm
There are a lot of things in a business venture that need keeping an eye on, all of which take time. Money allows for that time.
Post by: Neonivek on December 09, 2012, 07:55:42 pm
The difference is that I know exactly what that overfunding is often used on. Usually in their pocket.
Some developers though tend to use the money remaining to fund their next project. One actually advertised that as one of their stretch goals which actually divided the community because most people, as I would, would want their money being used on the project they are funding and not on a completely different project.
Mind you we still havn't gone into what I call "overfunding" which is when a project has more money then they can legitimately use.
Post by: MorleyDev on December 09, 2012, 08:26:27 pm
I mean, at that point what does it matter what they do with the money? Presumably they'd use it like a business typically uses the money from sales. Hell so long as I get the product and the quality is acceptable, they can spend what's left on booze and hookers for all I care xD
Post by: Neonivek on December 09, 2012, 09:11:27 pm
Quote
at that point what does it matter what they do with the money?
Normally what would happen is they would give that money back because their project's cost was under the funding given to them.
Which is where I get into how Kickstarter encourages embezzlement. It has no mechanic for that.
Post by: MrWiggles on December 09, 2012, 09:24:09 pm
Spoiler: Zion Glasses rant by Servant Corps (click to show/hide)
So, crowd funding projects magically ensure that any and all projects will succeed?
Post by: nenjin on December 09, 2012, 09:24:24 pm
Quoteat that point what does it matter what they do with the money?
Normally what would happen is they would give that money back because their project's cost was under the funding given to them.
Which is where I get into how Kickstarter encourages embezzlement. It has no mechanic for that.
Er, what? Give back money? In what world does someone ask investors for money and then be like 'hey guys, turns out we didn't the extra, you can have it back!"
Post by: MrWiggles on December 09, 2012, 09:26:43 pm
Yea, I dont understand why anyone who donated money to a project would expect a refund. Maybe you could sue to get refund or the rewards promised, if they fall through on that.Quoteat that point what does it matter what they do with the money?
Normally what would happen is they would give that money back because their project's cost was under the funding given to them.
Which is where I get into how Kickstarter encourages embezzlement. It has no mechanic for that.
Er, what? Give back money? In what world does someone ask investors for money and then be like 'hey guys, turns out we didn't the extra, you can have it back!"
Post by: Neonivek on December 09, 2012, 09:31:01 pm
Quote
So, crowd funding projects magically ensure that any and all projects will succeed?
Ohh goodness no. You can find plenty of examples of terrible or failed projects that were crowd funded.
Mind you I still support crowd funding if only because often that is the only way risky projects are even attempted. To get out of this "Bland but profitable game" trend.
Post by: MrWiggles on December 09, 2012, 09:50:16 pm
And thus I have proven my point.QuoteSo, crowd funding projects magically ensure that any and all projects will succeed?
Ohh goodness no. You can find plenty of examples of terrible or failed projects that were crowd funded.
Mind you I still support crowd funding if only because often that is the only way risky projects are even attempted. To get out of this "Bland but profitable game" trend.
More power to them, but I think there a very strong unconscious perception that somehow, crowd funding is a magical way to fund projects.
Post by: Neonivek on December 09, 2012, 09:55:59 pm
A lot of people now who would make mediocre projects are now seeking crowd funding in order to make mediocre but profitable projects.
Post by: i2amroy on December 10, 2012, 01:21:53 am
If anything the popularity of Crowd Funding has caused the scum to rise to the surface.That's the advantage of crowd funding though. If you see something that looks cool to you then you can fund it and it will happen. If you don't see something that looks cool then you don't fund it and nothing is lost. The end result is a bunch of games that the majority of people find cool, without needing to worry about all of those games like "Petz: Kittens!" and what have you cluttering up the shelves. Sure you are getting a bunch of mediocre projects, but you would have got those anyways, and if it actually makes it through development then you know that at least somebody thought it was cool, even if you don't.
A lot of people now who would make mediocre projects are now seeking crowd funding in order to make mediocre but profitable projects.
Post by: Neonivek on December 10, 2012, 01:28:47 am
I am only saying that one of the ways in which it goes wrong is that the large stream of good projects has also come with a large stream of terrible ones.
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If you don't see something that looks cool then you don't fund it and nothing is lost
It means that here is less products being made for general use now that EVERYONE can make money off of it.
I remember when some of the earlier kickstarters actually took advantage of the kickstarter to actually make their final products free. On a side note I am wondering how Grandroids is comming along.
Post by: lordcooper on December 10, 2012, 04:53:56 am
I remember when some of the earlier kickstarters actually took advantage of the kickstarter to actually make their final products free. On a side note I am wondering how Grandroids is comming along.
There was a pretty big breakthrough yesterday. I'll update the thread.
Post by: Zangi on December 10, 2012, 12:29:56 pm
There are some on-going 'projects' out there, like DF, that are running solely on donations. So it wouldn't be too far of a difference... Honestly, I don't see any problem with this.
What with many of these developers... well, the better ones anyways, they have the ability to make a game or something of the likes that a backer would want, but is unable to make/get otherwise without funding.
But yea, there are no checks and balances. A failed kickstarter just amounts to a failed investment. You ain't likely to get a red cent back since people asking for money ain't likely to have much to begin with and they've probably spent it all before the investor(you) realize its all going down the flusher.
That is business for ya, even if people decide to invest in stupid ideas or some unreliable person/people. It ain't anyone's problem you put your bet on something that smells bad.
(In an alternate universe, the developer becomes an indentured servant till all debts are paid off.)
(In another alternate universe, the developer gets capped and/or close friends and family are 'convinced' to pay back the investment.)
EDIT: ^ Ethically and Morally Horrible in the standards of modern western society... but, awesome if Kickstarter did do that.
Post by: MrWiggles on December 11, 2012, 07:12:50 pm
Like, Faster Then Light, they asked for 10k, and got 100k. But when I play the game, I dont see 100k worth of game there. All I see, is 10k dollar game. I think there an argument to be made, for at least some transparency where that extra money went.
Post by: Leafsnail on December 11, 2012, 07:18:25 pm
Post by: MorleyDev on December 11, 2012, 07:32:21 pm
"The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports the median annual wage for computer programmers was $71,380 in 2010. The best-paid 10 percent in the field made approximately $114,180 while the bottom 10 percent made approximately $40,820. The highest-paid in the profession work in the metropolitan areas of Rochester, Minn., Poughkeepsie-Newburgh-Middletown, N.Y., and San Jose, Calif."
Two people developed that game and if you completely ignore the self-funding before Kickstarter, from kickstarter success (March) to release (September), it took them 7 months. So the time of an experienced programmer for 7 months of work is worth $23,812. Over twice what they where asking for. For one computer programmer. Earning the average of the bottom 10%.
And they did mention that a big benefit of that kickstarter was being able contract out the audio assets, specifically the music. That full soundtrack by Ben Prunty was not cheap. And it let them afford to do an extensive beta test through kickstarter, and fix the bugs that where reported (which, trust me, is never a quick and easy job). Which they couldn't of afforded to do otherwise.
Post by: Criptfeind on December 11, 2012, 07:41:36 pm
Like, Faster Then Light, they asked for 10k, and got 100k. But when I play the game, I dont see 100k worth of game there. All I see, is 10k dollar game. I think there an argument to be made, for at least some transparency where that extra money went.
How is that different then normal games though that are not kick started?
Like say, Minecraft, which has sold like what, five million copies? At about 15-25 dollars per copy that is... carry the two and subtract the three... About a billion billion dollars. But the game itself is still like. Well I don't think there is anyone in the world that thinks minecraft cost fifty million dollars to make. Where the hell is all that extra money going? What the fuck is profit?
And even if you were to say kickstarter is not about profit (which is fair enough) what do you suggest they do about it? Not let people join the kickstarter? Or force them to stretch the dev time out another three years? Nether of those seem reasonable to me. Where is the actual 'wrong' being done?
Post by: Darvi on December 11, 2012, 07:47:31 pm
Post by: lordcooper on December 11, 2012, 07:52:39 pm
My little sister asked if I could get her some art supplies the other day, so I chucked her a £50 for some. I expect her to spend that on art supplies. If I'd given her £250,000 instead then I'd have to be utterly insane to expect her to spend it all on arty stuff.
Post by: Darvi on December 11, 2012, 08:12:43 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 11, 2012, 08:16:40 pm
I think a better comparison would be if you gave her 50£, and she got even more money from your parents immediately afterwards. You can't tell her what to spend the money on, because it wasn't even yours in the first place.
Uhh you certainly can.
When I give my friend 20 dollars to spend on lunch with the intent that there is going to be change he will give me. It is up to him to try to make sure I get some return.
This friend I am refering to often would use the entire twenty dollars (hense why I never let him borrow money)
Post by: Darvi on December 11, 2012, 08:18:35 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on December 11, 2012, 09:24:01 pm
If they don't set any stretchgoals then not really? It's more like they just took some extra pre-orders.Kickstarter has said a few times, that they are not a store, or a pre-order system. So thats going against the spirit of their service, if not their TOU.
This isn't helpful as Minecraft used a different means to fund their game. SO it has different standards to go by.Like, Faster Then Light, they asked for 10k, and got 100k. But when I play the game, I dont see 100k worth of game there. All I see, is 10k dollar game. I think there an argument to be made, for at least some transparency where that extra money went.
How is that different then normal games though that are not kick started?
Like say, Minecraft, which has sold like what, five million copies? At about 15-25 dollars per copy that is... carry the two and subtract the three... About a billion billion dollars. But the game itself is still like. Well I don't think there is anyone in the world that thinks minecraft cost fifty million dollars to make. Where the hell is all that extra money going? What the fuck is profit?
And even if you were to say kickstarter is not about profit (which is fair enough) what do you suggest they do about it? Not let people join the kickstarter? Or force them to stretch the dev time out another three years? Nether of those seem reasonable to me. Where is the actual 'wrong' being done?
Post by: Cthulhu on December 11, 2012, 09:25:29 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on December 11, 2012, 09:33:12 pm
This isn't helpful as Minecraft used a different means to fund their game. SO it has different standards to go by.
Why?
Not to mention a shitload of people have complained about Notch pissing away their money.
Why the fuck are they buying it then?
Post by: alway on December 11, 2012, 09:46:36 pm
And as for 'not getting what you felt was x amount worth,' that's stupid too. You chose to give the money, much more than they asked for, and without any guarantees of quality. You chose to use an inherently risky method, and if you don't feel it worked out for you, tough luck.
Post by: Draco18s on December 11, 2012, 09:48:47 pm
The actual wrong is where people start bitching about not getting more for their money than they bargained for.
I don't really see how they didn't. FTL, as an example, was a $10k game and people bought that. Sure, the game raised $100k, but people still bought, paid for, and got a $10k game.
Does it make us a little upset that we didn't get "more" because of the money they got that was above that goal, but that's only because we know how much they did raise (and we don't know what they spent it on, but that's true for most games--crowdfunded or otherwise).
Post by: alway on December 11, 2012, 09:52:40 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 11, 2012, 10:34:15 pm
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If I ask for $500 to publish my card game, and for whatever reason you give me $50,000, you should not expect me to put my entire life and plans on hold to upgrade the card game to be holographs run on unicorn farts
Then give the rest back. Sheesh.
Stop embezzling.
Post by: Scelly9 on December 11, 2012, 10:45:05 pm
So, what happens to the people who wanted the card game, but got their money back instead?QuoteIf I ask for $500 to publish my card game, and for whatever reason you give me $50,000, you should not expect me to put my entire life and plans on hold to upgrade the card game to be holographs run on unicorn farts
Then give the rest back. Sheesh.
Stop embezzling.
Post by: Criptfeind on December 11, 2012, 11:13:58 pm
Edit: Or give it out for free, capitalism is evil and kickstarter is always 100% enough to fund everything and the next project as well.
Post by: Neonivek on December 11, 2012, 11:15:26 pm
Fuck em. Can't give em what they want, that would be embezzling.
It would be dishonest to accept funding for something you cannot deliver.
Post by: Criptfeind on December 11, 2012, 11:16:20 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 11, 2012, 11:17:57 pm
Except they can. That's not the issue at all.
You heard him. He cannot, he is entirely unwilling to put 5000 dollars worth of effort into the project. He is only willing to put 500 dollars of effort into it.
So he is keeping 4500 in his pocket from a project fund.
Post by: Criptfeind on December 11, 2012, 11:19:46 pm
Post by: Draco18s on December 11, 2012, 11:19:55 pm
Except they can. That's not the issue at all.
You heard him. He cannot, he is entirely unwilling to put 5000 dollars worth of effort into the project. He is only willing to put 500 dollars of effort into it.
So he is keeping 4500 in his pocket from a project fund.
Or he's giving the 4500 back, and also not delivering the project to those people.
Which should it be?
Post by: Scelly9 on December 11, 2012, 11:21:44 pm
That is not what he was saying at all. Let's say that it costs $500 for a run of 50. Now upgrade that run to... 5000. It's obviously going to be less, since in the card printing business, that's just how it works. Let's say it costs $25,000 to do the entire run. What about the remaining $25000, what should he do with that money?Except they can. That's not the issue at all.
You heard him. He cannot, he is entirely unwilling to put 5000 dollars worth of effort into the project. He is only willing to put 500 dollars of effort into it.
So he is keeping 4500 in his pocket from a project fund.
Post by: Neonivek on December 11, 2012, 11:23:17 pm
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Or he's giving the 4500 back, and also not delivering the project to those people.
where is the 500 going?
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Which should it be?
The 4500 back. With that the producers can just pay someone else who can do the job.
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What about the remaining $25000, what should he do with that money?'
If he is unwilling to spend it on the project he should give it back.
Post by: Scelly9 on December 11, 2012, 11:25:32 pm
Why? The people who bought the project got what they payed for. Who should he give it to? Distribute it evenly through the masses, make everyone's cheaper? Like it or not, kickstarter is a for profit thing (usually). Why should he give out his product for free?QuoteWhat about the remaining $25000, what should he do with that money?'
If he is unwilling to spend it on the project he should give it back.
Post by: Aklyon on December 11, 2012, 11:26:58 pm
And how come none of you (on the last page at least) seem to have remebered that there is more things than just the game itself that need funding to get the game out? (Like the rewards if nessesary, or office rent if they're using one, or being able to keep people employed in case theres terrible game-breaking bugs a month after its released in need of fixing by the people with the source code instead of waiting for the possibly never-appearing people hacking the game open to fix things because the dev no longer exists as a company or something and possibly causing more bugs than they fixed?)
Post by: Neonivek on December 11, 2012, 11:28:23 pm
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Why should he give out his product for free?
He is already charging for his product. The 25000 dollars would be profits from doing nothing.
Unless we are going to get into "Double Charging"
When we add rewards there is an aspect that the "extra funding" is profits and that is fine.
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how come none of you (on the last page at least) seem to have remebered that there is more things than just the game itself that need funding to get the game out?
Insurance, Legal Fees, advertisement... I am well aware. I am putting it at the point where there is nothing extra to spend the money on.
Post by: Scelly9 on December 11, 2012, 11:32:55 pm
Fine. Why should he give out his work for free?QuoteWhy should he give out his product for free?
He is already charging for his product. The 25000 dollars would be profits from doing nothing.
I don't know about you, but I think that "doing nothing" is certainly not what goes into a successful kickstarter. What about having the idea, promoting it, spending the time to make a good video and an entry, contacting the people he needs to draw the cards, investing something into it so they produce any art at all, scouting various printing services, ect.
Post by: Neonivek on December 11, 2012, 11:39:14 pm
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Why should he give out his work for free?
He is not he is charging an arm and a leg.
As well "Paying himself" would be included in the $500 dollars.
What was he going to be a slave if he didn't get SUPER overfunded?
Post by: Draco18s on December 11, 2012, 11:43:40 pm
He is already charging for his product. The 25000 dollars would be profits from doing nothing.
Unless we are going to get into "Double Charging"
When we add rewards there is an aspect that the "extra funding" is profits and that is fine.
Let's put it like this, and this is very very simple:
Guy asks for $5000 to make his AwesomeGame.
He prices a copy at $50 to the customer, meaning that he needs 100 people to back his project to make his goal.
He works out his costs as such:
100 copies at $20/copy = $2000 (expensive for such a small print run)
Shipping on 100 copies ($10 per) = $1000
Time and effort spent: $5/hour for 100 hours = $500 per person times 3 people = $1500
Kickstarter/Amazon cut: $500
Total: $5000
He gets inundated with orders, he now has 1000 orders to fill, and the project has raised $50,000.
He recalculates how much it'll cost to have copies printed, and it turns out he can get them for half-price per unit because the print run got larger. $10,000 instead of the originally estimated $20,000 ($2,000 * 10 times as many copies).
His time spent on the project hasn't gone up at all, and he and his friends decide that the game doesn't really have any opportunities for an expansion, so there isn't really anything they can offer people in terms of stretch goals.
They do decide to pay themselves a bit more than minimum wage, though, and up their hourly to $15. $4,500 total for that line item.
They can't reduce the reward tier price, though. Kickstarter doesn't allow you to change a reward after someone's chosen it.
What do they do with the extra $10,500? Do they give every backer $10 back? Do they keep it?
What happens if this wasn't the end of their campaign and suddenly they don't have a thousand copies, they have FIVE thousand and their price-per-unit costs go down even more?
Post by: Aklyon on December 11, 2012, 11:46:56 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 11, 2012, 11:48:28 pm
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What do they do with the extra $10,500? Do they give every backer $10 back? Do they keep it?
They will keep it because Kickstarter doesn't let you do otherwise.
However lets say their game only needed 1-10th that cash to make and that the whole kickstarter was a sham. Kickstarter fully supports this can encourages them to do it.
They are still delivering. They just happened to make the requirement for their project much higher then they actually needed in order to gouge the community and make them think there was more work going into their project then they thought. Thus Kickstarter not only has no issue with this, but they fully support it and indirrectly endorse such actions.
Post by: Draco18s on December 11, 2012, 11:51:11 pm
You forgot to add-in the cost of failed pledges Draco, but other than that its pretty good.
It's relatively small, to be honest. Even my project only had six, and I think we managed to get a hold of and get money from five of them (we had more trouble getting a hold of our high end backers and what they wanted for their customized rewards!).
(and we had one person who spazzed out and wanted a refund, meh, whatever).
Anyway, it was a simple example.
There was some other largeish project recently I've been following. Forget which one. Ah, found it. Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption. 21 failed pledges out of over 6000.
They are still delivering. They just happened to make the requirement for their project much higher then they actually needed in order to gouge the community and make them think there was more work going into their project then they thought. Thus Kickstarter not only has no issue with this, but they fully support it and indirrectly endorse such actions.
Projects fail if you don't "gouge" for a few dollars here and there. A smaller goal -> better chance of success.
My group had to charge $50 for our game to ship within the US, despite being only about 200 playing cards and a couple of mats. If anything, we didn't price it high enough to cover costs. It turned out to be in our favor, due to having a distributor who will be throwing in their own money in order to make a larger initial print run (cheaper on both ends: for us to deliver KS rewards and for them to have initial inventory). We were told on multiple fronts that we likely didn't charge enough in order to cover international shipping costs.
Post by: Neonivek on December 11, 2012, 11:53:22 pm
You are funding a project. You have no expectation to a refund because the product was lousy unless, of course, your money was misappropriated or the project was cancelled without spending any money.
Mind you... In both those cases (Your money misused and they cancelling the project and taking your cash anyway) you wouldn't get your cash back on kickstarter.
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Projects fail if you don't "gouge" for a few dollars here and there.
Yeah except this isn't about creating a Windfall or selling your product. This is "When kickstarter goes wrong" not "When people use kickstarter for perfectly legit and ethical means".
Now if you are saying there is no way to abuse the kickstarter system to do ethically and legally dubious actions then we are going somewhere
But the major obsticle in this conversation is everytime I bring a point you keep bringing up "Well I ran a perfectly legitimate project so there!" Which I allow you to do because as long as you arn't actually addressing my points I've made them unchallenged.
Now as for the "Whatever you raise in a project is your to do what you want and thus you can pocket as much as you wish" point you made. Which you oddly didn't support... That is where I argue there is an ethical aspect here especially in light of how NORMAL project funding goes out of Kickstarter.
When you recieve funding you are given money with the intent that the money is used for the project. Hiring yourself is one of those and thus you actually have room to make money off a project. If you have more money then you are willing to spend on the project, normally you would either return part of their investment or reward the investors. Since Kickstarter doesn't opperate under this logic it means that corner cutting and pocketing the difference is not only legal but encouraged. As well as misrepresenting your project.
Kickstarter goes wrong when people realise that Kickstarter doesn't function the same way and find ways to pocket the most of their project funds. In otherwords Embezzlement. Legal Embezzlement. There is making money off of Kickstarter, a practice I am all for, and then there is this.
Post by: alway on December 12, 2012, 04:01:53 am
Post by: Neonivek on December 12, 2012, 04:04:53 am
Or, in other words, it is exactly what I have been saying it is all along: You see something shiny on your monitor, yell "SHUTUP AND TAKE MY MONEY," before cramming wads of cash at the people on the computer.
You must need new monitors all the time with all the cash wadded ones.
Post by: Scelly9 on December 12, 2012, 04:05:39 am
Post by: Neonivek on December 12, 2012, 04:08:42 am
Have you ever thrown a wad of cash at a monitor? It doesn't exactly stick.
He said Crammed not thrown. You ever crammed wads of cash into your monitor? It doesn't exactly come out easily, nor does it seem to like it.
Post by: Scelly9 on December 12, 2012, 04:11:03 am
Oh my. Yes, that could be quite bad for your monitor.Have you ever thrown a wad of cash at a monitor? It doesn't exactly stick.
He said Crammed not thrown. You ever crammed wads of cash into your monitor? It doesn't exactly come out easily, nor does it seem to like it.
Post by: tryrar on December 12, 2012, 04:55:15 am
Post by: Neonivek on December 12, 2012, 04:57:10 am
Do you have one?
Asking for a topic change without providing a topic change is futile.
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you seem to be lumping ALL projects in with the scams neon
I am?
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You REALLY expect someone who asks for money to return any extra money they recieve?
I would challenge you that the average person would return the extra cash. I can think of plenty of situations entirely in the norm. Want to try them out?
For example you didn't bring your lunch to school today and someone gives you twenty bucks to buy a lunch with because they don't have smaller bills expecting the change. You discover you brought your lunch to school.
In your scenario you keep the money.
By the by this scenario happened to me in real life. No one liked that guy. He tended to pay people back with money he borrows from other people. Shuffling debt to give himself more time.
Post by: Darvi on December 12, 2012, 05:02:03 am
Post by: Neonivek on December 12, 2012, 05:03:47 am
I wouldn't. If you didn't want me to have the extra money, then why did you give it to me in the first place?
It could have been a project where the final cost is unknown. The person could have lacked other bills.
As well with Kickstarter project there is an idea that extra funding goes towards developing the product in more comfort and with windfalls. So that if something bad happened, as is often the case, that the project doesn't immediately failed. It can also mean flexibility, time, and quality.
That is what extra funding can mean.
Unfortunately what I am understanding here is that any extra funding of a project does not go into the project itself. It is pocket money and that is to be expected. That is... kinda a terrible concept.
So yeah people should stop giving to Kickstarter the second any project hits its goal is what I am understanding from you. It is the logical conclusion.
Post by: MorleyDev on December 12, 2012, 05:10:10 am
Then again I always give the minimum to get a copy of the item, so that may colour my views of it more as a pre-pre-order system.
Post by: Neonivek on December 12, 2012, 05:10:39 am
I'd put forward that since you are not investing in the sense that you have any power or authority over the product, and since it's a commercial endeavour and not a charity, any left over funds would go straight into the profits category.
In otherwords Double Charging. Also you can do Charities off of kickstarter too (you just cannot make "Donate-a-thons" off of it) and you could pocket that money too. (Ohh dear holy the unfortunate implications of that)
Anyhow, it is simply terrible that this really is the expectation of Kickstarter. That it isn't "Crowd Funding".
Post by: olemars on December 12, 2012, 05:17:13 am
Also you can do Charities off of kickstarter too (you just cannot make "Donate-a-thons" off of it)
I thought that was expressly forbidden in the guidelines.
Post by: Darvi on December 12, 2012, 05:17:45 am
It could have been a project where the final cost is unknown. The person could have lacked other bills.If somebody can't make a realistic estimate of their own costs then they fail at Project101 and probably won't even be able to finish their project anyway.
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As well with Kickstarter project there is an idea that extra funding goes towards developing the product in more comfort and with windfalls. So that if something bad happened, as is often the case, that the project doesn't immediately failed. It can also mean flexibility, time, and quality.So... stretch goals?
That is what extra funding can mean.
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Unfortunately what I am understanding here is that any extra funding of a project does not go into the project itself. It is pocket money and that is to be expected. That is... kinda a terrible concept.The concept of profit is obviously unknown to you and you should feel like an arsehole for wanting to boycott good ideas.
So yeah people should stop giving to Kickstarter the second any project hits its goal is what I am understanding from you. It is the logical conclusion.
Anyway the entire idea of KS is that pledgers get to donate a certain amount of money and in return get to pick a pledge reward. As long as they get the promised rewards, there should be no need to complain because you got what you wanted. Yes, there is a risk factor involved, but in return you can get benefits that a buyer of the finished product couldn't get.
It is.Also you can do Charities off of kickstarter too (you just cannot make "Donate-a-thons" off of it)
I thought that was expressly forbidden in the guidelines.
Post by: Shades on December 12, 2012, 05:20:05 am
In otherwords Double Charging.
Anyhow, it is simply terrible that this really is the expectation of Kickstarter. That it isn't "Crowd Funding".
How is that double charging? and how is getting more than is needed not crowd funding?
Besides which I'm sure people would be more annoyed that they don't get whatever it was they pledged for, but do get a refund, than not getting the refund of whatever is left over.
Post by: tryrar on December 12, 2012, 05:20:35 am
It's actually not BAD, per se, but what really gets on my nerves it the choice to use a robot voice for most of the video
Post by: Neonivek on December 12, 2012, 05:33:08 am
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So... stretch goals?
Not nessisarily. Stretch goals are something extra beyond that the ordinary and often Stretch goals are much less then the requirement (Hense why a few developers actually ignore whether or not their stretch goals were met. Since it was just a token sentiment). General quality, time, and flexibility are not stretch goals.
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If somebody can't make a realistic estimate of their own costs then they fail at Project101 and probably won't even be able to finish their project anyway
A lot of projects can never have concrete funding requirements as the exact amount can change due to unknown variables that cannot be seen until the adventure has started and reached certain checkpoints. For example if you were renovating a house.
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The concept of profit is obviously unknown to you and you should feel like an arsehole for wanting to boycott good ideas
They still get profits, they in fact get a lot of profit after the kickstarter. If they didn't then their project obviously wasn't all that good.
If their only source of income was Kickstarter overfunding and they weren't simply using it to provide a cheaper service requiring mass funding in advance (As with most miniature Kickstarters) then there was an issue.
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Anyway the entire idea of KS is that pledgers get to donate a certain amount of money and in return get to pick a pledge reward
No that is the enticement. That is how they convince you to donate and to donate more at certain levels.
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The concept of profit is obviously unknown to you and you should feel like an arsehole for wanting to boycott good ideas
Boycott? What do you mean. The project was funded. It is a commercial product and it will be sold as a commercial product.
Where is this "Anti-profits"?
All this means is that people should stop "Funding" a project after it ceases to be funded.
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how is getting more than is needed not crowd funding?
The difference in buying and funding.
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Besides which I'm sure people would be more annoyed that they don't get whatever it was they pledged for, but do get a refund, than not getting the refund of whatever is left over.
Ehhh, I am more concerned with the fact that there is a atmosphere that allows and encourages pocketing large swaths of your funding and not putting it towards development and how that is one of the possible ways Kickstarter can go wrong.
Not so much that there exists profits off of kickstarter as kickstarter is often used as a platform for pre-orders and even allows another kickstarter if a project needs even more funding (but I am unaware of the mechanics). As well Kickstarter pre-order mechanics is often outright required for anything that needs to be mass produced unelectronically due to the expense of buying casts and prints.
Though the hard part about arguing that there exists an area of ethical slipping within that system is hard when you have no idea how to argue it (like me) and keep floundering about. Then start being surprised when people hyperbolate against you, as in me, and realise too late that they don't exactly mean what they say but rather have used less sophisticated examples against you in arguement creating terribly flawed models.
Mind you as always I believe that when you put something on kickstarter you are asking to fund a project. If a person had an honest knowledge that the funding, and they may fund over the donation amount, was in fact not going towards the project. They may hesitate or at least fund the minimum required amount, and if they did fund extra it would be a thank you (money gift).
When funding goes over the project goal there should be, in my mind, a sense of obligation to try to use that money on the project within reason and within the scope you are willing to work within. Where any left over can be pocketed.
When someone sets the goal above the amount they need and immediately pockets overfunding and intentionally under funds his own project with the funds he recieved. He is doing something wrong with the money people have lent him. Even if it is perfectly within the scope of Kickstarter and in many ways encouraged since any money not used on development is kept with no system to prevent it.
Which really is my only point.
Quote
It's actually not BAD, per se
You didn't have one did you?
Post by: Darvi on December 12, 2012, 05:45:21 am
And costs that don't belong to the project are relevant how?QuoteIf somebody can't make a realistic estimate of their own costs then they fail at Project101 and probably won't even be able to finish their project anyway
A lot of projects can never have concrete funding requirements as the exact amount can change due to unknown variables that cannot be seen until the adventure has started and reached certain checkpoints. For example if you were renovating a house.
Quote
I don't think anybody who isn't a scammer uses kickstarter as their sole source of income with a given project.QuoteThe concept of profit is obviously unknown to you and you should feel like an arsehole for wanting to boycott good ideas
They still get profits, they in fact get a lot of profit after the kickstarter. If they didn't then their project obviously wasn't all that good.
If their only source of income was Kickstarter overfunding and they weren't simply using it to provide a cheaper service requiring mass funding in advance (As with most miniature Kickstarters) then there was an issue.
Quote
Yes. But if you donate and get what you asked for there should be no need to complain.QuoteAnyway the entire idea of KS is that pledgers get to donate a certain amount of money and in return get to pick a pledge reward
No that is the enticement. That is how theöy convince you to donate and to donate more at certain levels.
Quote
"Okay guys, they got what they asked, stop giving them money!""Screw you Neonivek, we still want to get those awesome rewards and we don't want to wait until the entire thing is done. You won't stop us."QuoteThe concept of profit is obviously unknown to you and you should feel like an arsehole for wanting to boycott good ideas
Boycott? What do you mean. The project was funded. It is a commercial product and it will be sold as a commercial product.
Where is this "Anti-profits"?
All this means is that people should stop "Funding" a project after it ceases to be funded.
And you'd be boycotting them by depriving them of the extra profits that people evidently want to give them. And what the fuck are "anti-profits"?
The mistake you're making is that you think that KS cannot be directly used for any kind of profit at all.
Post by: Neonivek on December 12, 2012, 05:57:12 am
Quote
The mistake you're making is that you think that KS cannot be directly used for any kind of profit at all
No I'll admit I've been completely disillusioned. I kinda had an expectation for Kickstarter that I never knew was completely untrue of Kickstarter.
Finding out that it is kinda all about the profits and that overfunding isn't put back into the project and isn't expected to... was a pretty big shock to take given that I actually am one of the larger defenders of kickstarter and the only faults I seen in it previously was on people abusing the system.
But there is no real way to abuse it now because it isn't what I thought it was. It kinda sucks now...
Quote
!""Screw you Neonivek, we still want to get those awesome rewards and we don't want to wait until the entire thing is done. You won't stop us."
Make sure you increase your donation outside the donation minimum. I wouldn't suggest it though because unless you just want to put extra cash in their pockets for no reason.
As well with what I now know about kickstarter and that overfunding is not used on the project. People who intentionally do not pick up rewards should logically withdraw their funding when the project reaches that point unless they just want to line their wallets. That money could go to a project that could actually need it and possibly also get funded.
Post by: Darvi on December 12, 2012, 06:02:19 am
Post by: Shades on December 12, 2012, 06:19:23 am
QuoteBesides which I'm sure people would be more annoyed that they don't get whatever it was they pledged for, but do get a refund, than not getting the refund of whatever is left over.
Ehhh, I am more concerned with the fact that there is a atmosphere that allows and encourages pocketing large swaths of your funding and not putting it towards development and how that is one of the possible ways Kickstarter can go wrong.
But you don't provide an alternative.
Either you have to cancel someone's donation, which means they don't get what they pledged for or you have to honour the pledge and have to keep the money.
I suppose you could argue that you refund a small percentage to each person but that quickly becomes unwieldy and probably incurs more in transaction fees that there is left in most cases.
Unless each kickstarter had a registered charity/second kickstarter that all excess would go to, which would have to be something everyone would be happy that their donation goes to.
Of course in both these last two cases ideally the person wouldn't have got the funding and would sell the final product to those who were too late to pledge.
The complexities involved make it seem to me that the most sensible option is for all excess to be considered as a pre-order (generally at a reduced price) and so profit for the creators, which is the situation we have right now.
Post by: Neonivek on December 12, 2012, 06:44:43 am
Quote
But you don't provide an alternative
I don't need to
It is by no means saying that Kickstarter is wrong, so much that a project can use Kickstarter to go wrong in the way of abusing the way Kickstarter uses its funding.
Quote
I suppose you could argue that you refund a small percentage to each person but that quickly becomes unwieldy and probably incurs more in transaction fees that there is left in most cases
The largest issue is that it would create two lessening effects (made up term).
First the cut Paypall and Kickstarter takes plus Income taxes the first way. Then Paypall and Income Taxes on the way back.
Something along those lines. I am sure I can cut some of that out... but suffice it to say you want the sheer minimum amount of movement when it comes to cash.
Post by: Darvi on December 12, 2012, 06:57:58 am
Post by: Neonivek on December 12, 2012, 07:00:55 am
The payments aren't made until the funding period is over.
You cannot lessen someone's donation >_<
But yes that, if possible, would be a possible mechanic.
Post by: Shades on December 12, 2012, 09:46:37 am
But yes that, if possible, would be a possible mechanic.
You'd have to tie that to a lessening of the reward, whatever that might be, to keep things balanced though. Otherwise there would be no reason for the project to have taken the donation in the first place. In fact thinking it through now, I don't see how any option but all or nothing can work at all. Kickstarter offering some kind of optional total pledge limit (to match the highest 'stretch goal' I guess) would be about the only way to achieve that.
Anyone late to the party just has to wait till after the project is complete which of course that only works for a subset of projects.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on December 12, 2012, 09:50:44 am
Because, you know, guys the point of a kickstarter is that you give someone money to make an idea reality. In exchange you get a reward. As long as he gets his money and you your reward everything is fine, right?
Post by: Draco18s on December 12, 2012, 10:08:49 am
QuoteBut you don't provide an alternative
I don't need to
Given that you're unhappy with the way the system is now and cannot point out what a reasonable project should do in the case of "getting too much" then yes, yes you do.
Because otherwise you can sit down and shut up.
Post by: Karlito on December 12, 2012, 12:01:39 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on December 12, 2012, 12:05:19 pm
Post by: SealyStar on December 12, 2012, 04:35:35 pm
Well, there's this project (http://launch2.universeprojects.com/), which is apparently only in a "pre-kickstarter" stage, so maybe I shouldn't post it here, but it basically looks just like Bunky Bartlett with higher production values.
Fucking...
He wants to make a game that will simulate all of cosmic, Earth, and human history... for people to play around in.
Does he intend to rent out an entire Google server farm and make all his players buy the highest-end gaming computers just to play with terrible lag?
Ignoring the technical challenges of simulating (let along connecting) all that, programming it would take a joint venture between Apple, Microsoft, Google, the entire US government... you get the picture... to make it happen. Programming the real world... yeah... not happening.
Post by: Leafsnail on December 12, 2012, 04:39:54 pm
Post by: Draco18s on December 12, 2012, 04:49:19 pm
Fucking...
He wants to make a game that will simulate all of cosmic, Earth, and human history... for people to play around in.
Does he intend to rent out an entire Google server farm and make all his players buy the highest-end gaming computers just to play with terrible lag?
It can be played on your phone, too! ;)
Post by: Lovechild on December 12, 2012, 05:37:07 pm
Post by: SealyStar on December 12, 2012, 05:54:41 pm
Even if all the technical obstacles to make this game are overcome, it will still be killed by griefers.
Yes... the most fantastic, realistic, unbelievably awesome game in the worl-
"LOL NOOB FAG BUNNYHOP BUNNYHOP STOP CAMPING I'M TWELVE YEARS OLD I DESERVE SPECIAL PRIVILEGES"
Post by: Dutchling on December 12, 2012, 05:56:48 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on December 12, 2012, 06:00:38 pm
Post by: Knight of Fools on December 12, 2012, 06:14:33 pm
I mean, if I wanted to play a super realistic game where I were one person who had to go out and survive in the real world and stuff, I could just play Real Life. It'd be much more productive.
Post by: alway on December 12, 2012, 06:22:20 pm
Post by: Furtuka on December 12, 2012, 07:19:00 pm
Huh. It's as if someone decided to make a parody of Your World, then turned it to 11. Then 12. Then to 13000000000000. That's even worse than the game pitched in our Game Design class, ranked unanimously by the class as being the worst. It's either a troll or a really savvy fleecing.
What's the one that was ranked worst?
Post by: alway on December 12, 2012, 07:49:09 pm
It could have been humorous if it was intended as humor... but it wasn't. There was a great collective facepalm in that class on that day.
...
And this game is worse.
Post by: Putnam on December 12, 2012, 09:31:14 pm
Post by: miauw62 on December 13, 2012, 11:45:08 am
Post by: Sergius on December 13, 2012, 01:49:16 pm
At the time, the Occupy movement was in full swing. They managed to pitch a game which was completely offensive no matter what your views on anything were. Like, not even the funny or ironic kind of offensive, but just plain offensive. It involved both the portrayal of the protesters as a strongly violent, angry mob (complete with molotov cocktails and grenades) and simultaneously portraying police as engaging in an overzealous, violent crackdown at the whims of the rich. There was even the suggestion of getting police from different cities to sign on to have their logos used in the game. Because obviously they want to be known as violent corporate thugs. :P
It could have been humorous if it was intended as humor... but it wasn't. There was a great collective facepalm in that class on that day.
...
Sounds like Postal 2.
Post by: Servant Corps on December 13, 2012, 03:16:52 pm
What's the program with the original system again. Can't see any. Either the system fails(and nobody gets money), or it succeeds and everybody is happy. Or unhappy if the project fails.Most of the time, giving out the reward requires the project to succeed. For example, suppose I donate $10 in return for a copy of a game. The game doesn't get made. So I can't receive a copy of it.
Because, you know, guys the point of a kickstarter is that you give someone money to make an idea reality. In exchange you get a reward. As long as he gets his money and you your reward everything is fine, right?
The Kickstarter TOS does state that if the project fails, then it is the developer's responsibility to give out refunds. If the developer does do that, then there is no problem. But has that really happened yet, considering how the developer probably has no money left over (if they had the money, they probably wouldn't need the kickstarter in the first place, would they)?
Post by: lordcooper on December 15, 2012, 10:55:39 am
Please please tell me this is actually really intelligent satire.
Post by: Draco18s on December 15, 2012, 11:08:13 am
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1376466869/lore-0
Please please tell me this is actually really intelligent satire.
"There will be online multiplayer much like dark souls and Dayz who can hurt are help u its a shame to beat a hard boss only to get kill my you friend for that rare drop you got."
Ow, my brain D:
From the comments:
"I had 5 hour to put that video together my grammar may but be the best but i didn't know that was a factor in making a game."
"yes grammar is surely a sign of intellect and a sign of a person's education i'm very happy you seem to believe that"
"P.S you don't know my skill and knowledge the thing is believe it are not i learned more then yesterday and i have been working with programs to make video games for years i just never made a game to release but good night to you sir"
This guy is the new Bunky.
Post by: miauw62 on December 15, 2012, 11:12:52 am
/me Regains control.
I really, REALLY hope that that is fake.
E:
Quote
We understand this is something that has never been done but in 1492 Christopher Columbus went out into the sea and everybody told him he was going to fall off the end of the world but with his risk and passion we now know the earth is round and without his will and guts we would not be where we are today. The point i am trying to make nothing is risk free 16 years ago there was no internet but one man changed that. HEDY LAMARR was a actresses in the 1930's she came up with guided torpedoes for world war 2 she called and called the US army, government but no one listened because she was beauty and she was a actresses. My point is no one can understand vision if it was the 1930's are 1492 would kickstarter be a place to support like Hedy Lamarr and Christopher Columbus.The most hilarifying 3 sentences ever.
Yes, that's 3 sentences.
Post by: lordcooper on December 15, 2012, 11:30:16 am
Post by: olemars on December 15, 2012, 11:34:20 am
I've always wondered how people with such a terrible grasp of the English language manage to code in the first place.
Do they?
Post by: Neonivek on December 15, 2012, 11:34:35 am
I've always wondered how people with such a terrible grasp of the English language manage to code in the first place. Grammar (syntax) and spelling seemed quite critical the last time I checked.
It comes from simply not caring.
I actually have difficulty with spelling and grammar. My current ability with such goes to show how much care I actually put into what I write.
Post by: lordcooper on December 15, 2012, 11:42:34 am
I've always wondered how people with such a terrible grasp of the English language manage to code in the first place. Grammar (syntax) and spelling seemed quite critical the last time I checked.
It comes from simply not caring.
I actually have difficulty with spelling and grammar. My current ability with such goes to show how much care I actually put into what I write.
I'm confused. My point was that these things are essential in order to write a piece of software that actually works. If someone is incapable of using basic punctuation while specifically trying to impress others (as an example, when asking for $150,000 from strangers) then I have very little faith in their ability to write functional code.
This is a bit different from you or I being a little lax while posting on a forum.
Post by: Neonivek on December 15, 2012, 11:44:14 am
As well the rules for programming are layed out for you and are rather strict. You arn't going to see surprise rules from outerspace.
Post by: PanH on December 15, 2012, 11:44:40 am
IN GREEK IT'S CRON-OS YOU DIPSHIT RAHRAHRAHARHARHARAHRH.My mind is so violently blown. It hurts. Stop the slaughter !
/me Regains control.
I really, REALLY hope that that is fake.
E:QuoteWe understand this is something that has never been done but in 1492 Christopher Columbus went out into the sea and everybody told him he was going to fall off the end of the world but with his risk and passion we now know the earth is round and without his will and guts we would not be where we are today. The point i am trying to make nothing is risk free 16 years ago there was no internet but one man changed that. HEDY LAMARR was a actresses in the 1930's she came up with guided torpedoes for world war 2 she called and called the US army, government but no one listened because she was beauty and she was a actresses. My point is no one can understand vision if it was the 1930's are 1492 would kickstarter be a place to support like Hedy Lamarr and Christopher Columbus.The most hilarifying 3 sentences ever.
Yes, that's 3 sentences.
Post by: kaijyuu on December 15, 2012, 11:45:46 am
Post by: Neonivek on December 15, 2012, 11:49:04 am
"No in fact most people believed the world was round, or at least most credible people, there was however a belief that the world was actually larger then what we eventually discovered making circumnavigation a tricky proposition. As well my original goal wasn't to circumnavigate the globe so I would not have gone anywhere near the edge of the world"
"So basically this person is talking out of their butt?"
"Actually no, history is often rewritten to include these small myths. It is likely he learned this in class"
"Interesting, when did you get so smart?"
"Well you are writing my dialog"
"Touche"
Post by: miauw62 on December 15, 2012, 11:51:03 am
Post by: Neonivek on December 15, 2012, 11:52:04 am
I like the irony in the fact that you did not include punctuation outside of questions.
To quote myself "I actually have difficulty with spelling and grammar"
Also I put commas and periods in there; Just not at the end.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on December 15, 2012, 11:56:09 am
Neo's saying that such people ARE capable of basic punctuation/grammar/etc, but they don't care enough to apply themselves to use it outside of programming.
Or they can't apply it outside of programming because English grammar is a horrible Frankenstein's Monster of rules thrown together from the discarded pieces of other languages.
Though judging from his horrible sentences it's probably the former instead of the later.
Spoiler: Off-Topic (click to show/hide)
Post by: PanH on December 15, 2012, 12:04:52 pm
Compared to some other languages, English is a stroll on the beach.Neo's saying that such people ARE capable of basic punctuation/grammar/etc, but they don't care enough to apply themselves to use it outside of programming.
Or they can't apply it outside of programming because English grammar is a horrible Frankenstein's Monster of rules thrown together from the discarded pieces of other languages.
Though judging from his horrible sentences it's probably the former instead of the later.
Spoiler: Off-Topic (click to show/hide)
Post by: Darvi on December 15, 2012, 12:09:16 pm
This. People who say this have, in my experience, seldomly any experience in the truly clusterfucky languages.
Compared to some other languages, English is a stroll on the beach.
Post by: PanH on December 15, 2012, 12:13:58 pm
This. People who say this have, in my experience, seldomly any experience in the truly clusterfucky languages.
Compared to some other languages, English is a stroll on the beach.
I am not english or whatever, and I find english grammar rules easier than the ones of my own language.
Post by: Darvi on December 15, 2012, 12:14:31 pm
Post by: olemars on December 15, 2012, 12:14:54 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on December 15, 2012, 12:16:17 pm
Compared to some other languages, English is a stroll on the beach.Neo's saying that such people ARE capable of basic punctuation/grammar/etc, but they don't care enough to apply themselves to use it outside of programming.
Or they can't apply it outside of programming because English grammar is a horrible Frankenstein's Monster of rules thrown together from the discarded pieces of other languages.
Though judging from his horrible sentences it's probably the former instead of the later.
Which languages are those? I'm only asking so that I can avoid them in the future.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: PanH on December 15, 2012, 12:18:46 pm
At least you have rules.I wish so.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Doctus on December 15, 2012, 12:21:55 pm
Post by: Darvi on December 15, 2012, 12:22:18 pm
MFW I realize that this is one of the KS threads and we've gone off on a tangent that's practically normal.
Post by: miauw62 on December 15, 2012, 01:27:48 pm
French and Dutch.This. People who say this have, in my experience, seldomly any experience in the truly clusterfucky languages.
Compared to some other languages, English is a stroll on the beach.
I find English to be a very logical language, does that mean that those two languages are clusterfucky?
Post by: Darvi on December 15, 2012, 01:34:06 pm
Post by: SealyStar on December 15, 2012, 03:36:03 pm
English grammar is not especially bad. It's English orthography that's complicated and nonsensical and horrible.
This.
For the most part English grammar is regular and logical. The spelling and pronunciation are the fucked-up parts.
Post by: Putnam on December 15, 2012, 03:40:04 pm
Apparently, my brother's french teacher said that English is one of the hardest languages to learn and uses compound tenses as an example, the future perfect specifically. Even though french totally has that.
Post by: SealyStar on December 15, 2012, 03:51:50 pm
English grammar is probably some of the easiest I've seen.
Apparently, my brother's french teacher said that English is one of the hardest languages to learn and uses compound tenses as an example, the future perfect specifically. Even though french totally has that.
I always hear people talking about how hard Latin verbs are to conjugate because they don't have compound tenses.
Post by: Darvi on December 15, 2012, 03:55:49 pm
The only difficulty with compound tenses is to remember which get être as the auxiliary verb instead of avoir.
Post by: PanH on December 15, 2012, 04:56:43 pm
Frankly, I find the French compound tenses easier than the non-compound ones. While future simple is easy enough (usually it's just the infinitive with the conjugated verb avoir - to have), passé simple is an oxymoron.
The only difficulty with compound tenses is to remember which get être as the auxiliary verb instead of avoir.
Passé simple is simple. It's just the usual form, with overly ridiculous endings : -ai, -as, -a, -âmes, -âtes, -èrent (for first group), and so on.
Generally, you can guess what auxilary to use depending on if it's passive/active (although there's exceptions).
But the conjugated form also varies depending on the object pronoun before the verb.
The verb is conjugated with être, or with avoir only if the direct object is placed before the auxilary (in the form of a pronoun). In that case, it's conjugated with the object, not the subject.
Post by: Draco18s on December 15, 2012, 05:28:21 pm
(http://static.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/1345083472401_4207977.png)
Post by: SealyStar on December 15, 2012, 05:44:39 pm
Relevant:
(http://static.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/1345083472401_4207977.png)
Speech without verbs of ability of possession of existence in a weird state.
My challenge for you for creation of text in this way without usage of verbs... it of possession of existence in a difficult state.
Dream of my possession past last night about a world in which verbs nothing of possession of existence of a state of usage.
[Speech without verbs is weird. I challenge you to create text like this without using verbs... it is hard. I had a dream last night about a world where verbs could not be used.]
Post by: Putnam on December 15, 2012, 06:06:34 pm
Post by: Doctus on December 15, 2012, 06:32:42 pm
(No nouns, no verbs, no letter "a" or "e.")
Post by: SealyStar on December 15, 2012, 07:44:08 pm
Without, wholly without both -- thus -- oh, how wondrous! Difficult, truly, but worthily so.
(No nouns, no verbs, no letter "a" or "e.")
Indeed! Difficult- truly so, undeniably. But satisfyingly so, too!
Pointedly I have, absurd as apparent, informed that "I, me, you", and others of theirs- truly not concretely as with many!
[Pronouns technically aren't nouns, if you listen to English teachers anyway]
Post by: lordcooper on December 15, 2012, 08:40:24 pm
Post by: SealyStar on December 15, 2012, 08:58:45 pm
Yes... a desperate goal of making an airship with thermal imaging cameras to fly around and search for Bigfoot from the air. Kickstart it now!
Post by: Draco18s on December 15, 2012, 10:30:02 pm
Back on topic: has anyone heard about The Falcon Project (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/205499424/the-falcon-project)?
Yes... a desperate goal of making an airship with thermal imaging cameras to fly around and search for Bigfoot from the air. Kickstart it now!
He'd be better off searching for giant reefs made of gold (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lasseter%27s_Reef) in the Australian desert.
Post by: MrWiggles on December 15, 2012, 11:20:20 pm
But lets say that, this thing does move forward and finds squat. And? It wont stop the proponents.
Post by: Draco18s on December 16, 2012, 12:31:54 am
If there is an unknown large ass animal in north america, a sustained entensive search, like this would be a great boon.
But lets say that, this thing does move forward and finds squat. And? It wont stop the proponents.
Indeed.
Post by: SomeStupidGuy on December 19, 2012, 09:40:01 pm
Hilarity.
Post by: Wayward Device on December 20, 2012, 12:34:25 pm
EDIT: Although perhaps "There’s only 99999 of the $600 tier rewards left, so order soon!" deserves a worthy second place.
Post by: nenjin on December 20, 2012, 01:11:57 pm
The things about that make me cringe are so numerous. Is it the blatantly terrible spelling? Is it the use of copyrighted works? Is it the total disconnect between the soundtrack they don't own and the style of the game they're presenting? Is it the gadawful modeling work? The bizarre Goblin sidekick that looks like he wants to sex0rz you? The awful framerates on a what is obviously a low-res product? The fact he constantly references things with nostalgia value, making the bold claim of "Dark Souls, Diablo 2 ect....all in one!" Or the fact he's channeling Bucky in saying "Geez people are so narrow minded if they don't find my ideas awesome."
Post by: miauw62 on December 20, 2012, 01:20:59 pm
Quote
: If Columbus was alive i feel with his passion if you believed he could do it nothing could stop him people told him and told him he was going to die if he set sail.This guy needs to write a biography about Columbus. I would totally buy it.
Noah made a ark people try to kill him and his family because they didn’t understand and out of fear. I by no mean’s feel i’m Noah are Columbus i’m a gamer who love video games and hate what they because so i’m trying to make a different’s and show people you dont need millions to make a great game are that you have to make a 2D games.
Post by: Draco18s on December 20, 2012, 01:30:02 pm
Is the blatantly terrible spelling?
No, the guy simply doesn't give half-a-shit (much less two shits) about grammar/spelling because he thinks it's not necessary to produce a good game.
Can't wait for him to get to the in-game text.
Post by: penguinofhonor on December 20, 2012, 01:55:36 pm
This guy needs to write a biography about Columbus. I would totally buy it.
I can see it now.
trying to make a different's: the life of Columbus
Post by: SealyStar on December 20, 2012, 06:09:47 pm
And what the hell was with the Japanese acoustic rock (at least that's what it sounded like) in the background of the video?
Post by: Neonivek on December 20, 2012, 06:27:53 pm
Quote
If Columbus was alive i feel with his passion if you believed he could do it nothing could stop him people told him and told him he was going to die if he set sail.
Noah made a ark people try to kill him and his family because they didn’t understand and out of fear
Wait wait wait... I think I expressed why his view of Columbus was fundementally wrong but Noah too?
No one tried to kill Noah. At least to my knowledge and if they did they probably could have.
I think someone may have to help the person making Lore. Obviously people are telling him he is going to die as well as trying to kill him AND his family. It is the only logical explanation.
Post by: lordcooper on December 20, 2012, 08:39:44 pm
Post by: Darvi on December 20, 2012, 08:47:33 pm
>Get spears
>Throw spears at tiger until it dies (preferrably from a tree or something)
>Haul the corpse onto the boat.
>???
>Profit!
Post by: Neonivek on December 20, 2012, 08:54:43 pm
Well you try and get a tiger on a boat using only technology available in BC and see how long it takes for something to try and kill oyu.
Where is the misunderstanding in that? Were they fake tigers?
Post by: penguinofhonor on December 20, 2012, 10:56:40 pm
Quote
Do you remember the days of old when games were hard and made you think. This game is Dark Souls, Diablo 2 and Minecraft all in one.
oh my god I didn't actually read the lore thing yet
Post by: olemars on December 21, 2012, 11:39:42 am
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/siminoff/pop-the-intersection-of-charging-and-design/posts/372925 (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/siminoff/pop-the-intersection-of-charging-and-design/posts/372925)
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/21/apple_kickstarter/ (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/21/apple_kickstarter/)
Quote
I’ll never forget the moment when our campaign passed the $50,000 goal and our dream of powering dying batteries became tangible. Our promise was simple: provide a portable charger that was capable of powering ALL of your devices including the anticipated iPhone 5, which at the time, had not been released.
When Apple officially announced the move to Lightning we determined the best course of action was to incorporate two Lightning chargers, and two 30-pins (along with the four micro-USB’s). After applying to Apple (which is now required for Lightning), we learned that they are no longer willing to approve a product that uses the Lightning charger alongside any other charger (including their own 30-pin – seriously). Just like that, POP could no longer fulfill its true promise.
Post by: Draco18s on December 21, 2012, 12:26:33 pm
Post by: lordcooper on December 21, 2012, 12:34:24 pm
I... don't get why apple would do that. They maybe lose a few sales due to not selling new chargers, and that's it.
Quote
They maybe lose a few sales due to not selling new chargers
Answered yourself there really.
Post by: Argembarger on December 21, 2012, 12:44:29 pm
This guy needs to write a biography about Columbus. I would totally buy it.
I can see it now.
trying to make a different's: the life of Columbus
oh god sigged
Post by: Draco18s on December 21, 2012, 12:59:32 pm
My god, the best bit of that (and it was hard to decide) has to be the "actual in-game screenshot" image.The image looks and awful lot like Wurm: online...
EDIT: Although perhaps "There’s only 99999 of the $600 tier rewards left, so order soon!" deserves a worthy second place.
Did you miss the fact that it's actually a screenshot of the Unity editor? It's not "actual in-game footage."
Post by: miauw62 on December 21, 2012, 01:03:09 pm
Nah, Wurm looks better.My god, the best bit of that (and it was hard to decide) has to be the "actual in-game screenshot" image.The image looks and awful lot like Wurm: online...
EDIT: Although perhaps "There’s only 99999 of the $600 tier rewards left, so order soon!" deserves a worthy second place.
Post by: Zangi on December 21, 2012, 01:14:27 pm
A successfully funded project (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/siminoff/pop-the-intersection-of-charging-and-design) (with working prototypes) to make a universal charger/portable backup power for various mobile devices, has decided to refund all the backers after Apple refused to license their iphone5 power connector. Apple just won't license their connector to anything that could work with other devices, including slightly older Apple products.Apple seems to be the type to try to keep a monopoly over the whole chain of accessories for its products. Like how the printer machine companies have all these special overcharged ink cases for each and every different printer.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/siminoff/pop-the-intersection-of-charging-and-design/posts/372925 (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/siminoff/pop-the-intersection-of-charging-and-design/posts/372925)
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/21/apple_kickstarter/ (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/21/apple_kickstarter/)QuoteI’ll never forget the moment when our campaign passed the $50,000 goal and our dream of powering dying batteries became tangible. Our promise was simple: provide a portable charger that was capable of powering ALL of your devices including the anticipated iPhone 5, which at the time, had not been released.
When Apple officially announced the move to Lightning we determined the best course of action was to incorporate two Lightning chargers, and two 30-pins (along with the four micro-USB’s). After applying to Apple (which is now required for Lightning), we learned that they are no longer willing to approve a product that uses the Lightning charger alongside any other charger (including their own 30-pin – seriously). Just like that, POP could no longer fulfill its true promise.
A sad thing really, but they have the 'right' to do their durndest to keep it first party I suppose.
Post by: miauw62 on December 21, 2012, 01:17:09 pm
Post by: MorleyDev on December 21, 2012, 01:59:39 pm
I think the patents office is being a bit too lenient in giving companies patents...
One of the biggest understatements of this year...
Post by: MrWiggles on December 21, 2012, 03:28:37 pm
A successfully funded project (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/siminoff/pop-the-intersection-of-charging-and-design) (with working prototypes) to make a universal charger/portable backup power for various mobile devices, has decided to refund all the backers after Apple refused to license their iphone5 power connector. Apple just won't license their connector to anything that could work with other devices, including slightly older Apple products.Apple seems to be the type to try to keep a monopoly over the whole chain of accessories for its products. Like how the printer machine companies have all these special overcharged ink cases for each and every different printer.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/siminoff/pop-the-intersection-of-charging-and-design/posts/372925 (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/siminoff/pop-the-intersection-of-charging-and-design/posts/372925)
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/21/apple_kickstarter/ (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/21/apple_kickstarter/)QuoteI’ll never forget the moment when our campaign passed the $50,000 goal and our dream of powering dying batteries became tangible. Our promise was simple: provide a portable charger that was capable of powering ALL of your devices including the anticipated iPhone 5, which at the time, had not been released.
When Apple officially announced the move to Lightning we determined the best course of action was to incorporate two Lightning chargers, and two 30-pins (along with the four micro-USB’s). After applying to Apple (which is now required for Lightning), we learned that they are no longer willing to approve a product that uses the Lightning charger alongside any other charger (including their own 30-pin – seriously). Just like that, POP could no longer fulfill its true promise.
A sad thing really, but they have the 'right' to do their durndest to keep it first party I suppose.
When this is a failing on the kickstarter folks not getting all their ducks in a row. Apple, or /any/ company doesnt have to grant a license to everyone. If being unable to get one license fucks over your entire product, then you should have gotten the license before hand, or maybe looked into why such an obvious product exist already.
This isn't on apple entirely, or majority.
This is the Kickstarter Folks counting their eggs before they got to market.
EDIT: Read the article from the The Wired.
Post by: Servant Corps on December 21, 2012, 05:01:29 pm
An e-watch kickstarter has raised over 6 million dollars (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-e-paper-watch-for-iphone-and-android). Luckily, they have a track record of producing products and it seems they already have it ready to be produced, so I don't think it's going to flame out. Look like this might be a success.Yeah, maybe I was a bit too hasty in supporting this project. They still haven't shipped yet (despite originally promising to ship on September 2012), and there is some discontent if the comments are correct. Some people have even "sold" their claims to Pebble watches off to other people, since Pebble has refused to give out refunds.
However, production of the watches does appear to be mostly complete, so I am not ready to call it a scam. My prediction is that it will eventually see the light of day.
Post by: Scelly9 on December 21, 2012, 05:48:03 pm
They raised 102 times their goal. If they need to make that many more watches than they originally planned for, it's going to take a while longer.An e-watch kickstarter has raised over 6 million dollars (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-e-paper-watch-for-iphone-and-android). Luckily, they have a track record of producing products and it seems they already have it ready to be produced, so I don't think it's going to flame out. Look like this might be a success.Yeah, maybe I was a bit too hasty in supporting this project. They still haven't shipped yet (despite originally promising to ship on September 2012), and there is some discontent if the comments are correct. Some people have even "sold" their claims to Pebble watches off to other people, since Pebble has refused to give out refunds.
Post by: Sergius on December 21, 2012, 08:16:38 pm
Quote
"Our technical specifications provide clear guidelines for developing accessories and they are available to MFi licensees for free. We support accessories that integrate USB and Lightning connectors, but there were technical issues that prevented accessories from integrating 30-pin and Lightning connectors, so our guidelines did not allow this," Apple spokesperson Tom Neumayr told Ars on Friday. "We have been working to resolve this and have updated our guidelines to allow accessories to integrate both 30-pin and Lightning connectors to support charging."
Still manage to lie through their teeth tho. There's no "technical issues" because the people that were doing it were perfectly able to do so. It was just Apple being assholes, as is their usual behavior.
Project stills seems to be canceled, since Apple expects them to remove USB altogether (to prevent Samsung and others using it) and make plugs specifically for the 30 pin and the iPhone 5 crapplug. (which shouldn't need to be "licensed" in the first place).
Post by: Leafsnail on December 22, 2012, 09:27:43 am
Proposal: change the first amendment so it no longer allows creating games based on Minecraft + other popular game(s)QuoteDo you remember the days of old when games were hard and made you think. This game is Dark Souls, Diablo 2 and Minecraft all in one.
oh my god I didn't actually read the lore thing yet
Post by: MorleyDev on December 22, 2012, 09:45:14 am
Quote
Do you remember the days of old when games were hard and made you think. This game is Dark Souls, Diablo 2 and Minecraft all in one.
Yup, never before in all of history have games been made that use aspects or even just copies of the gameplay and/or visual style of other games. Nope, that kind of thing definitely never happened. Ever. In all of the history of video games.
Post by: miauw62 on December 22, 2012, 10:08:23 am
And the Internet wins again, and the evil Corporation bucks to the bad publicity. Apple lifts block on combo 30-pin+Lightning charging accessories (http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/12/apple-lifts-block-on-combo-30-pinlightning-charging-accessories/).So basically, Apple will only license them if the charger only works for them?Quote"Our technical specifications provide clear guidelines for developing accessories and they are available to MFi licensees for free. We support accessories that integrate USB and Lightning connectors, but there were technical issues that prevented accessories from integrating 30-pin and Lightning connectors, so our guidelines did not allow this," Apple spokesperson Tom Neumayr told Ars on Friday. "We have been working to resolve this and have updated our guidelines to allow accessories to integrate both 30-pin and Lightning connectors to support charging."
Still manage to lie through their teeth tho. There's no "technical issues" because the people that were doing it were perfectly able to do so. It was just Apple being assholes, as is their usual behavior.
Project stills seems to be canceled, since Apple expects them to remove USB altogether (to prevent Samsung and others using it) and make plugs specifically for the 30 pin and the iPhone 5 crapplug. (which shouldn't need to be "licensed" in the first place).
Post by: nenjin on December 22, 2012, 10:55:25 am
And the Internet wins again, and the evil Corporation bucks to the bad publicity. Apple lifts block on combo 30-pin+Lightning charging accessories (http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/12/apple-lifts-block-on-combo-30-pinlightning-charging-accessories/).So basically, Apple will only license them if the charger only works for them?Quote"Our technical specifications provide clear guidelines for developing accessories and they are available to MFi licensees for free. We support accessories that integrate USB and Lightning connectors, but there were technical issues that prevented accessories from integrating 30-pin and Lightning connectors, so our guidelines did not allow this," Apple spokesperson Tom Neumayr told Ars on Friday. "We have been working to resolve this and have updated our guidelines to allow accessories to integrate both 30-pin and Lightning connectors to support charging."
Still manage to lie through their teeth tho. There's no "technical issues" because the people that were doing it were perfectly able to do so. It was just Apple being assholes, as is their usual behavior.
Project stills seems to be canceled, since Apple expects them to remove USB altogether (to prevent Samsung and others using it) and make plugs specifically for the 30 pin and the iPhone 5 crapplug. (which shouldn't need to be "licensed" in the first place).
More accurately, they' 'll only license a product that no one else can use but Apple. They want to retain a monopoly on anything that connects to their devices, be it chargers or app stores.
Post by: Aptus on December 22, 2012, 11:16:10 am
The first to discover North America was Jacques Cartier.
Pff, he has nothing on the vikings. Leif Eriksson is where it's at for your North-America-discovering needs.
EDIT: Whoops, just saw I was replying to a several pages old post.
Post by: lordcooper on December 22, 2012, 12:38:33 pm
QuoteDo you remember the days of old when games were hard and made you think. This game is Dark Souls, Diablo 2 and Minecraft all in one.
Yup, never before in all of history have games been made that use aspects or even just copies of the gameplay and/or visual style of other games. Nope, that kind of thing definitely never happened. Ever. In all of the history of video games.
I've been punched in the face a fair few times. I'm in no rush to see it happen again.
Post by: SealyStar on December 22, 2012, 04:37:34 pm
Proposal: change the first amendment so it no longer allows creating games based on Minecraft + other popular game(s)QuoteDo you remember the days of old when games were hard and made you think. This game is Dark Souls, Diablo 2 and Minecraft all in one.
oh my god I didn't actually read the lore thing yet
The problem with banning games based on X is that there are still ways of creating an original game while basing it off another. If derivative games were banned, we'd have no games- after all, you can say Minecraft is a DF/Infiniminer ripoff (which it sort of is), you can say every JRPG ever is a Final Fantasy/DQ ripoff (which is even more true), you could say every FPS is a Doom/Wolfenstein ripoff... and so on and so forth.
The big problem is when people advertise the game as being like X, which becomes more of a IP issue than anything.
The first to discover North America was Jacques Cartier.
Pff, he has nothing on the vikings. Leif Eriksson is where it's at for your North-America-discovering needs.
EDIT: Whoops, just saw I was replying to a several pages old post.
ZHENG HE! ZHENG HE!
No, seriously, Gavin Menzies is a crackhead.
Post by: Aptus on December 22, 2012, 05:26:33 pm
He was also wrong.The first to discover North America was Jacques Cartier.
Pff, he has nothing on the vikings. Leif Eriksson is where it's at for your North-America-discovering needs.
EDIT: Whoops, just saw I was replying to a several pages old post.
Heard of the Native Americans?
They don't count, seeing as they are native to the place they can hardly "discover" it. It's like saying you discovered a carton of milk in your fridge that you put there yourself :p
Post by: Dutchling on December 22, 2012, 05:28:22 pm
He was also wrong.The first to discover North America was Jacques Cartier.
Pff, he has nothing on the vikings. Leif Eriksson is where it's at for your North-America-discovering needs.
EDIT: Whoops, just saw I was replying to a several pages old post.
Heard of the Native Americans?
They don't count, seeing as they are native to the place they can hardly "discover" it. It's like saying you discovered a carton of milk in your fridge that you put there yourself :p
I repeatedly discover games in my Steam library which (apparently) I bought years ago >.>
Post by: Lightningfalcon on December 22, 2012, 05:45:25 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 22, 2012, 06:00:05 pm
Well the Native American's did have to discover America before they could live there.
Sort of... Except they couldn't discover "America" because that didn't exist.
I know that it is a rather nipicky thing for me to say but it is actually important to understand for future references.
Post by: PanH on December 22, 2012, 06:34:02 pm
Then, Colombus didn't discover America, cause he thought he was in India.
And Native Americans did cross the Bering Strait.
Post by: MorleyDev on December 23, 2012, 09:10:25 am
The problem with banning games based on X is that there are still ways of creating an original game while basing it off another. If derivative games were banned, we'd have no games- after all, you can say Minecraft is a DF/Infiniminer ripoff (which it sort of is), you can say every JRPG ever is a Final Fantasy/DQ ripoff (which is even more true), you could say every FPS is a Doom/Wolfenstein ripoff... and so on and so forth.
Also nothing is ever perfect, especially the first time through. You can always improve upon something.
Despite what Apple like to pretend, "innovation" is almost always nothing more than taking what came before and modifying it in some way in an attempt to eliminate a perceived problem with the previous version. Innovation is iterative. Copy, Transform and Combine. Embrace the Remix. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1s_PybOuY0)
Post by: Draco18s on December 23, 2012, 10:14:06 am
Also nothing is ever perfect, especially the first time through. You can always improve upon something.
Despite what Apple like to pretend, "innovation" is almost always nothing more than taking what came before and modifying it in some way in an attempt to eliminate a perceived problem with the previous version.
Innovation is most definitely not patenting "a rectangle with rounded corners."
Post by: Leafsnail on December 23, 2012, 12:47:17 pm
Thousands of games based on the same game with minimal tweaks and additions from other games? They will be first against the wall.
Post by: penguinofhonor on December 23, 2012, 01:08:25 pm
Post by: Sergius on December 23, 2012, 02:43:39 pm
What could possibly go wrong.
Then we can have judges say things like "I may not know much about games, son, but I know what I don't like" and ban the games.
Post by: SealyStar on December 23, 2012, 08:31:59 pm
-Beaned on the head by someone who hates terrible math jokes-
Post by: Neonivek on December 23, 2012, 10:39:24 pm
Y'know, all these Kickstarters are just so derivative. I mean, the original works are so integral to their existence.
-Beaned on the head by someone who hates terrible math jokes-
Honestly there were a few gems earlier in this list, but... I don't know... Ambitious talentless dumb people who are also very creative and overly proud just don't want to start kickstarters anymore.
Post by: PTTG?? on December 24, 2012, 03:08:09 am
Post by: Valid_Dark on December 28, 2012, 05:33:22 pm
He was also wrong.The first to discover North America was Jacques Cartier.
Pff, he has nothing on the vikings. Leif Eriksson is where it's at for your North-America-discovering needs.
EDIT: Whoops, just saw I was replying to a several pages old post.
Heard of the Native Americans?
They don't count, seeing as they are native to the place they can hardly "discover" it. It's like saying you discovered a carton of milk in your fridge that you put there yourself :p
The people that became native americans discovered north america. They weren't always there. your argument is like saying ” oh you found this place a few hundred years ago? Lol you've been here to long so it doesn't count sux2BeU”
Post by: Soralin on December 28, 2012, 11:09:12 pm
No, "America" is a word, it refers to a geographical area, it still refers to that area in the past, even before the word was created. It's like saying that the wheel, or fire, wasn't discovered until recently, because "wheel" and "fire" are english words, and so they couldn't be discovered before the words for them existed.Well the Native American's did have to discover America before they could live there.
Sort of... Except they couldn't discover "America" because that didn't exist.
I know that it is a rather nipicky thing for me to say but it is actually important to understand for future references.
Post by: lemon10 on December 28, 2012, 11:54:41 pm
It would be like saying the British discovered the British isles. They didn't, since the explorers obviously had to come from somewhere else, and thus had a different nationality.
Post by: Flare on December 29, 2012, 12:02:17 am
Technically Native Americans didn't discover America, the parents/grandparents/ancestors of the people who discovered it did.
It would be like saying the British discovered the British isles. They didn't, since the explorers obviously had to come from somewhere else, and thus had a different nationality.
Ethiopians discovered everything. Truly the world's greatest explorers.
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on December 29, 2012, 12:22:35 am
Post by: lordcooper on December 29, 2012, 12:24:54 am
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on December 29, 2012, 12:26:26 am
Post by: lordcooper on December 29, 2012, 12:27:15 am
does it count if you don't return to brag?
No. Flag pics or it didn't happen.
Post by: lordcooper on January 07, 2013, 01:33:18 pm
This Kickstarter went wrong before it even got on Kickstarter.
Post by: Draco18s on January 07, 2013, 01:39:59 pm
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/01/07/every-promise-ever-made-the-universe-project/
This Kickstarter went wrong before it even got on Kickstarter.
I've already made fun of it to my mother. Even as computer illiterate as she is, she gets that there's no way they could pull it off.
(How to completely trash servers: invent That Game inside That Game, thus playing the game within itself).
Post by: miauw62 on January 07, 2013, 01:48:57 pm
Post by: Draco18s on January 07, 2013, 01:58:41 pm
I think somebody already posted that.
That could be. All I know is I've seen it somewhere before.
Post by: Karlito on January 07, 2013, 04:09:03 pm
Well, there's this project (http://launch2.universeprojects.com/), which is apparently only in a "pre-kickstarter" stage, so maybe I shouldn't post it here, but it basically looks just like Bunky Bartlett with higher production values.
Post by: Draco18s on January 07, 2013, 04:12:53 pm
Yup. And videos are still not available.Well, there's this project (http://launch2.universeprojects.com/), which is apparently only in a "pre-kickstarter" stage, so maybe I shouldn't post it here, but it basically looks just like Bunky Bartlett with higher production values.
That url is dead :P
Post by: Tellemurius on January 07, 2013, 04:14:54 pm
works for meYup. And videos are still not available.Well, there's this project (http://launch2.universeprojects.com/), which is apparently only in a "pre-kickstarter" stage, so maybe I shouldn't post it here, but it basically looks just like Bunky Bartlett with higher production values.
That url is dead :P
Post by: Draco18s on January 07, 2013, 04:31:03 pm
works for meYup. And videos are still not available.Well, there's this project (http://launch2.universeprojects.com/), which is apparently only in a "pre-kickstarter" stage, so maybe I shouldn't post it here, but it basically looks just like Bunky Bartlett with higher production values.
That url is dead :P
Now it works. o..o
Timed out before, which I thought was perfectly ironic.
Post by: Servant Corps on January 10, 2013, 02:49:13 pm
Post by: PTTG?? on January 10, 2013, 02:50:09 pm
Post by: Darvi on January 10, 2013, 02:50:37 pm
Also, ever heard of FTL?
Post by: Leafsnail on January 10, 2013, 02:56:53 pm
I like FTL but it may well be the exception to the rule.
Post by: Draco18s on January 10, 2013, 02:58:39 pm
Looking through the list I found (http://www.giantbomb.com/kickstarter-funded/92-7378/games) FTL is the only one I know has been released. Other people may be able to help me on the others.
I like FTL but it may well be the exception to the rule.
Oh come on! No Velociraptor! Cannibalism! (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/boardraptorgames/velociraptor-cannibalism)? And to think we're 98% of the way to physical copies.
Post by: Servant Corps on January 10, 2013, 03:05:49 pm
I heard of FTL, but I had forgotten it was Kickstarter-funded. Still, one success out of...how many failures or incompletes?
I don't think you realise how much time it takes to actually make a game.I don't think people who start projects on Kickstarters realise how much time it takes to actually make a game. And I don't want to give any excuse for game developers who take people's money and then fail to produce anything worthwhile. It's important to monitor everything.
EDIT: Or more simply, I think Kickstarter accountability is a good thing to have.
Post by: Strange guy on January 10, 2013, 03:32:42 pm
Post by: lordcooper on January 10, 2013, 03:37:58 pm
Post by: olemars on January 10, 2013, 03:51:39 pm
I do remember reading about one kickstarted game that failed horribly, but can't remember what it was. Some sort of obscure, isometric horror game.
Post by: Draco18s on January 10, 2013, 04:05:01 pm
I do remember reading about one kickstarted game that failed horribly, but can't remember what it was. Some sort of obscure, isometric horror game.
Haunts (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2066438441/haunts-the-manse-macabre), maybe?
Post by: Trollheiming on January 11, 2013, 08:31:30 am
Post by: freeformschooler on January 11, 2013, 08:48:15 am
Cloudberry Kingdom (http://www.pwneestudios.blogspot.com/) was successfully kickstarted and came out (though, while essentially complete and fully playable, it hasn't had a proper update in long).
Those are the only two I can think of that I paid for.
Post by: Sergius on January 11, 2013, 09:23:48 am
I do remember reading about one kickstarted game that failed horribly, but can't remember what it was. Some sort of obscure, isometric horror game.
Haunts (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2066438441/haunts-the-manse-macabre), maybe?
Latest update (December) says that basically the main programmer fucked up and left leaving them with non-working source code, and that now he came back with the correct working source and they're back on track.
Post by: Trollheiming on January 11, 2013, 09:49:10 am
Latest update (December) says that basically the main programmer fucked up and left leaving them with non-working source code, and that now he came back with the correct working source and they're back on track.
Well, that's good then, although the programming language itself sounds a bit dodgy and experimental. Until more drama pops up there, that leaves us with Cult as the admonitory example, then. And, actually, Cult raked in $35 large, before Lord Dullard vanished. Much more than Haunts.
For some reason, that "game" is like the troglodytic stepson that gets banished to a locked cell in the attic, and everyone ignores the muffled grunts and howls.
Post by: Servant Corps on January 11, 2013, 10:11:12 am
Quote from: Gary Riley, Grand Cipher of
I wonder... Do we have anyone here who pledged $250 and above who have had any biweekly IM's?
That would go a long way to provide potential proof of credibility on Hagar's part...
If not should we be considering or at least looking into contacting kickstarter about this, and looking into the legality of Hagar's actions? And possibly look into criminal charges of fraud.
Which brings me another question: are these legal threats likely to turn into actual lawsuits, or are they just empty words coming from people who are angry at losing money? On the one hand, the TOS does state that it you cannot provide a backer's rewards, you must give a refund. On the other hand, lawsuits are expensive. They have to justify to a lawyer why should he go through all that effort just to collect $35,000.
Post by: MrWiggles on January 11, 2013, 10:35:45 am
From Cult's Kickstarter page:I think they're as forceful as putting up legal writs on your facebook wall. I also think it serves to show that you shouldnt put your product as a guaranteed part of the rewards. And just toss it in as a bonus. And some how imply that certain reward tiers will get'em.Quote from: Gary Riley, Grand Cipher ofI wonder... Do we have anyone here who pledged $250 and above who have had any biweekly IM's?
That would go a long way to provide potential proof of credibility on Hagar's part...
If not should we be considering or at least looking into contacting kickstarter about this, and looking into the legality of Hagar's actions? And possibly look into criminal charges of fraud.
Which brings me another question: are these legal threats likely to turn into actual lawsuits, or are they just empty words coming from people who are angry at losing money? On the one hand, the TOS does state that it you cannot provide a backer's rewards, you must give a refund. On the other hand, lawsuits are expensive. They have to justify to a lawyer why should he go through all that effort just to collect $35,000.
Post by: JWNoctis on January 11, 2013, 10:40:46 am
From Cult's Kickstarter page:Quote from: Gary Riley, Grand Cipher ofI wonder... Do we have anyone here who pledged $250 and above who have had any biweekly IM's?
That would go a long way to provide potential proof of credibility on Hagar's part...
If not should we be considering or at least looking into contacting kickstarter about this, and looking into the legality of Hagar's actions? And possibly look into criminal charges of fraud.
Which brings me another question: are these legal threats likely to turn into actual lawsuits, or are they just empty words coming from people who are angry at losing money? On the one hand, the TOS does state that it you cannot provide a backer's rewards, you must give a refund. On the other hand, lawsuits are expensive. They have to justify to a lawyer why should he go through all that effort just to collect $35,000.
Unless one of the people who are angry at losing money is a lawyer who is angry enough to represent this with his/her own otherwise paid time in a class action suit, probably no.
This really injures kickstarter's credibility, and sadly not going to be the last one.
I think they're as forceful as putting up legal writs on your facebook wall. I also think it serves to show that you shouldnt put your product as a guaranteed part of the rewards. And just toss it in as a bonus. And some how imply that certain reward tiers will get'em.
I bet some projects are already doing that. Kind of unavoidable.
Post by: lordcooper on January 11, 2013, 10:49:40 am
Post by: Draco18s on January 11, 2013, 11:01:04 am
I also think it serves to show that you shouldnt put your product as a guaranteed part of the rewards. And just toss it in as a bonus. And some how imply that certain reward tiers will get'em.
Funnily enough, V!C! made statements to the effect of "if it goes to print, then" kind of wording originally. I think the only reward tiers that were guaranteed (at the start) to get physical stuff was the $250 and the $500 slots, figuring that even if all else fails, we could produce 1 or 2 copies with that kind of cash.
Post by: Aklyon on January 11, 2013, 11:05:13 am
Post by: Darvi on January 11, 2013, 11:05:56 am
Post by: Draco18s on January 11, 2013, 11:07:36 am
Think that's already been mentioned.
Twice
Post by: Darvi on January 11, 2013, 11:08:44 am
Post by: JWNoctis on January 11, 2013, 11:32:08 am
Post by: The Darkling Wolf on January 11, 2013, 11:49:41 am
GUILD BANKS
Post by: lordcooper on January 11, 2013, 11:50:54 am
Post by: Darvi on January 11, 2013, 11:51:28 am
Post by: The Darkling Wolf on January 11, 2013, 11:53:58 am
Post by: Rose on January 11, 2013, 11:58:45 am
Spoiler: Also (click to show/hide)
Post by: Neonivek on January 11, 2013, 11:59:41 am
It really is probably the shining example of a good game being sold as badly as possible where even the few good ideas (like ANY artist rendering of what the game will look like) were actually told to them by the community.
Which believe it or not it is because they thought they were going to get a chunk of everyone who has even bought or read an Ars Magica system book.
Post by: Draco18s on January 11, 2013, 12:08:43 pm
hookerbots
No no. "Hookerbot." There was only going to be one.
Post by: Trollheiming on January 11, 2013, 05:28:30 pm
One thing about Kickstarter, the rubes are protected from obvious scams by requiring a certain critical mass of them to accumulate within a short timeframe. And that's herding cats. Places like Indiegogo don't have that safety measure.
Post by: Neonivek on January 12, 2013, 03:07:43 am
heck I am stretching it by including a good game that wasn't funded because the people who put it up were TERRIBLE salesmen.
Post by: Zangi on January 12, 2013, 03:45:30 am
We pretty much established waay earlier that this topic is basically "complain about stuff you don't like that is on Kickstarter"Indeed, they were... know if they are going to try again or did they decide to shelve it forever because they still don't understand what the hell they did wrong?
heck I am stretching it by including a good game that wasn't funded because the people who put it up were TERRIBLE salesmen.
Post by: Neonivek on January 12, 2013, 04:13:16 am
We pretty much established waay earlier that this topic is basically "complain about stuff you don't like that is on Kickstarter"Indeed, they were... know if they are going to try again or did they decide to shelve it forever because they still don't understand what the hell they did wrong?
heck I am stretching it by including a good game that wasn't funded because the people who put it up were TERRIBLE salesmen.
No they basically said that was the ONLY chance they would EVER have to do it and so there is never going to be an Ars Magica game.
Which you would think that it would mean they would put more care and attention into presentation... but nope.
It really could be used as the textbook example of how NOT to handle a kickstarter when your project is genuinly good.
It is to me entirely qualifying as "When Kickstarter goes wrong" and would definately hold in the top 10 of all the projects listed in this topic.
Post by: Servant Corps on January 12, 2013, 02:33:44 pm
Quote
Creator Black Chicken Studios on December 22
All;
Hey, thanks for the comments! It doesn't look like we'll make another attempt very soon- possibly after our next release or so, but thanks for the attention!
We'd love to be working on this in the background, but the reality of our development is that we can't afford it- if we could, we wouldn't have come to KickStarter to begin with. :)
Which means they might revisit this project in the future, after they release a couple of games. And if they fail to release those games in the future, then it's probably likely they would have failed to produce an Ars Magica game.
Post by: MrWiggles on January 13, 2013, 05:27:24 pm
Post by: Servant Corps on January 14, 2013, 01:01:15 pm
Quote
Four weeks later, on Nov 28, 2011, Quest posted an update explaining that the Hanfree project had officially failed, and said he planned to offer refunds to backers.So it is possible to successfully file a lawsuit and win in court. That being said, I do feel kinda sorry for Quest.
It wasn't enough for Singh. Kickstarter's terms make it clear that project creators must "refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill." So when weeks passed without receiving one, Singh threatened a lawsuit.
Other backers, like Aza Summers, disagreed with Singh's approach. "Those on this thread who are treating Seth with such harsh judgments and threats of lawsuit (over a $50 or $100 pledge?!) are not the kind of people that I would expect to be the usual kickstarter [sic] backer type," Summers wrote. "It seems to me that Seth has acted in good, if naive, faith, and will do his best to compensate us backers, either by moving the project forward or by a settlement offer."
But Singh was adamant.
"Seth just stalled, and stalled, and stalled," Singh says. "For me, this is why I became a lawyer. I guess I'm more of an idealist than anything else. It just ticked me off."
In May 2012, Singh filed paperwork in Arizona's Justice Court citing breach of contract. He sued both Quest and his business partner, Juan Cespedes, though he eventually dropped the case against Cespedes.
...
Because he never incorporated Hanfree, Quest was personally liable for the refunds. But the money from the backers was gone, spent on engineers and contract manufacturers. The lawsuit forced him into bankruptcy. From there, things only got worse.
Later that year, Quest moved to Brooklyn, but because of the damage to his reputation, he could only find part-time work in what he calls a non-design-related field. To deal with his anxiety and hypertension, he picked up yoga and joined a boxing gym. These days, he's doing better, but it's a part of his life he hopes to move on from.
"When you fail on Kickstarter, it's a very public failure," says Quest. "It definitely derailed my career substantially. Your backers can give you massive support, but they can also tear you down if you fail.
Post by: Criptfeind on January 14, 2013, 01:19:35 pm
It highlights what seems like a big issue on kickstarter for me, on all sides (backers producers and kickstarter itself.)
None of this shit is made. Most of it has a substantial chance of failing to go though. It seems utterly idiotic to me the idea that anyone would depend on kickstarter for anything and think of it as anything but a bet. Even the rewards.
And yet backers expect things, producers promise things, and kickstarter itself does not care so long as it is legally untouchable and gets its cut.
Post by: MarcAFK on January 14, 2013, 10:57:28 pm
But it's mostly kickstarter because they have created this system which sometiems doesn't worrk, usually for product and software projects.
Kickstarter should take more care before accepting these sorts of projects and they should probably use or create some organisation that gives these people more support and information about the risks involved and which works with them before they even submit the project.
I understand kickstarter can not itself get involved with these projects because that would leave it liable for failed projects, but i think that by NOT doing everything in it's power to ensure the project managers are well organised they are leaving themself liable anyway.
And possibly there should be an option to allow projects to stop getting pledges after a certain point, i've seen so many get in trouble because of problems caused by attempting to get out more rewards than origonally planned for, or prehaps the project managers or product and software projects should need to submit detailed plans showing exacty how they will be able to provide ALL rewards within budget; for instance quotes from particular T shirt printers and postage estimate from post office, etc.
Post by: rabidgam3r on January 14, 2013, 11:02:13 pm
Post by: lordcooper on January 14, 2013, 11:02:58 pm
Maybe this belongs in Other Games? just saying.
No. Occasionally we laugh at things other than games in here.
Post by: JWNoctis on January 14, 2013, 11:20:10 pm
So it is possible to successfully file a lawsuit and win in court. That being said, I do feel kinda sorry for Quest.
So it has already happened, and...that's drastic.
I mean, I'm all for suing outright con cases, but this...All investments has its own risk, and Kickstarter's TOS is designed to -theorically- take the risk away from supporters. But that risk has to go somewhere. I feel sorry for him.
Post by: Karlito on January 14, 2013, 11:28:38 pm
Maybe this belongs in Other Games? just saying.
I'm pretty sure it was, originally. But this is a better place for it.
Post by: MrWiggles on January 15, 2013, 03:03:58 am
And yet backers expect things, producers promise things, and kickstarter itself does not care so long as it is legally untouchable and gets its cut.Why should Kickstarter care, and whats wrong with it taking a percentage? The last time I checked, it does cost money and man power to maintain kickstarter.
But it's mostly kickstarter because they have created this system which sometiems doesn't worrk, usually for product and software projects.I dont get what you're stating here. Kickstarter, or any crowd funding site shouldnt exist unless it always work? And what do you mean by it not working? Quest got its exposure, and payment through Kickstarter. What else should it do?
Kickstarter should take more care before accepting these sorts of projects and they should probably use or create some organisation that gives these people more support and information about the risks involved and which works with them before they even submit the project.Ah. They should be doing this. Why is it Kickstarter, or any crowdfunding site responsibility to now become a community college and make its participants gain an AA in business management?
Why is any of this kickstarter fault? Did Kickstarter, for this example, make Quest and its virgin businessmen woefully incompetent? Does Kickstarter seek out, or give preferential treatment to the woefully incompetent? Did Kickstarter force them to make their campaign before they were ready? Did Kickstarter prevent them from figuring out manufacturing or any of the business administrative issues before going forward with funding? Did Kickstarter make them frail negotiators after they got the funding? Yea, it is an unfair advantage that Domestic and abroad business get to know how much money you're playing with. But so what. Quest folks were not the first, nor will they be the last to try and negotiate a business deal at a disadvantage. Did Kickstarter prevent the Quest folks from seeking additional venture captial? Did Kickstarter somehow promote, or cause the grief from their internal politics?
Seriously, where is Kickstarter responsibility after they did their crowd sourcing?
And if you want to throughly vet anyone before hand and then give some of those folks, a crash course in business mgm., then where does Kickstarter involvement end with their project? Do they then now have to hold their hands? If I fund through Kickstarter is Kickstarter the company now a not-so-silent partner?
And doesnt making the acceptance process more tough defeat the open ended, amateur pursuit of capital for what the fuck ever point of Kickstarter and crowdsource model in general? Crowdsourcing is for folks that wouldnt be able to gain venture capital or other traditional means of funding.
I understand kickstarter can not itself get involved with these projects because that would leave it liable for failed projects, but i think that by NOT doing everything in it's power to ensure the project managers are well organised they are leaving themself liable anyway.I dont think you do, if you did then you wouldnt be asking for them to do so. Its no a libel thing, its an issue of man power, and defeating the spirit of crowd sourcing to begin with. You want kickstarter to be venture capital, and thats what kickstarter is trying to avoid being.
Why would it leave them open to law suits? When Kickstarter very clearly establishes it roll in this transaction. Might as demand that eBay make sure that every bid is expertly designed to ensure maximum bidders. Crowdsourcing is about /you/ getting your shit together and then following through.
And possibly there should be an option to allow projects to stop getting pledges after a certain point, i've seen so many get in trouble because of problems caused by attempting to get out more rewards than origonally planned for, or prehaps the project managers or product and software projects should need to submit detailed plans showing exacty how they will be able to provide ALL rewards within budget; for instance quotes from particular T shirt printers and postage estimate from post office, etc.
Yep, this entire paragraph sounds like good things to do, if you were going to be doing a crowd sourcing thing. But I dont see why Kickstarter has to make you do any of it. The rewards can be anything. Its their strength. And again, it goes back to the kickstarter project starters doing a half assed job.
Kickstarter already provides tools to limit the number of rewards that can be given out. And you can donate and not get a reward. Thats possible. Its not kickstarter fault that these project starters make poor use of the tools already at their disposal.
These Quest folks thought having a good product was all you needed. They were sorely ill prepared and they only have themselves to blame.
Post by: nenjin on January 15, 2013, 10:07:21 am
Maybe this belongs in Other Games? just saying.
*looks at date of post*
*looks at age of thread*
You're a few months late at least on that suggestion. Just sayin'.
Post by: Criptfeind on January 15, 2013, 10:49:40 am
And yet backers expect things, producers promise things, and kickstarter itself does not care so long as it is legally untouchable and gets its cut.Why should Kickstarter care, and whats wrong with it taking a percentage? The last time I checked, it does cost money and man power to maintain kickstarter.
Seriously, where is Kickstarter responsibility after they did their crowd sourcing?
There is nothing wrong with kickstarter taking a cut, I just said they don't care. The not caring is the issue. Or not. It being a issue or not depends on what you think corporate responsibility is. Is it the responsibility of a business to exploit loopholes and do anything they can for maximum profit? Or do they have some responsibility to the people they serve and the people that serve them?
If you think the first way there really is not a moral issue with what they are doing in the short term. Although one could argue that they will eventually kill themselves by destroying all trust in the long term.
But if you think the second way then yes. There is a issue with them only caring for their cut. Once upon a time they did not make it clear at all what they were. The story itself was pretty clear, the lawyer thought that it was basically a shop. That is him being a bad consumer. But it is also kickstarter and Quest being unclear. The fault lays on all. Now recently they have made this better somewhat. Requiring risk sections. Requiring estimated time to delivery. It's a lot better. But I don't really think it is good enough.
Post by: Draco18s on January 15, 2013, 11:51:55 am
If you think the first way there really is not a moral issue with what they are doing in the short term. Although one could argue that they will eventually kill themselves by destroying all trust in the long term.
Any company with shareholders, sadly, follows this ideal.
Even if they make statements to the contrary.
(Cough, AIG*)
*Speaking of, the former president of AIG is suing the US gov't for the fact that the AIG bailout was not big enough and tried to get AIG--who has paid back the entire loan and is doing fine, and has several US gov't representatives on its voting board--on board with this. AIG basically said, "What are you, crazy?"
Post by: Zangi on January 15, 2013, 12:46:16 pm
And yet backers expect things, producers promise things, and kickstarter itself does not care so long as it is legally untouchable and gets its cut.Why should Kickstarter care, and whats wrong with it taking a percentage? The last time I checked, it does cost money and man power to maintain kickstarter.
Seriously, where is Kickstarter responsibility after they did their crowd sourcing?
There is nothing wrong with kickstarter taking a cut, I just said they don't care. The not caring is the issue. Or not. It being a issue or not depends on what you think corporate responsibility is. Is it the responsibility of a business to exploit loopholes and do anything they can for maximum profit? Or do they have some responsibility to the people they serve and the people that serve them?
If you think the first way there really is not a moral issue with what they are doing in the short term. Although one could argue that they will eventually kill themselves by destroying all trust in the long term.
But if you think the second way then yes. There is a issue with them only caring for their cut. Once upon a time they did not make it clear at all what they were. The story itself was pretty clear, the lawyer thought that it was basically a shop. That is him being a bad consumer. But it is also kickstarter and Quest being unclear. The fault lays on all. Now recently they have made this better somewhat. Requiring risk sections. Requiring estimated time to delivery. It's a lot better. But I don't really think it is good enough.
Think of it this way. Kickstarter learned and adapted quick enough to not shaft themselves. It is a for-profit business venture from what I understand.
Dealing with collections is a very long term frustrating thing that
Dealing with lawsuits is also a long term frustrating thing... with huge costs that the commissions can never cover for. It'll totally take the 'profit' out of for-profit. I am of the opinion that kickstarter will cease to be if it has to resort to start-up lawsuits on behalf of backers for even a tenth of failed kickstarters. Well, it might flounder about for the first 2 or 3... but someone is gonna look at the lawyer bills and say "Holy bajeezus, we can't afford this!"
Post by: Criptfeind on January 15, 2013, 02:49:52 pm
Post by: MorleyDev on January 15, 2013, 03:05:18 pm
As not a lawyer, can't they just change the wording of TOS to "They are required to do all reasonable effort to fulfil their promises" and let it become a matter for the courts whether or not the effort was reasonable enough?
Post by: Draco18s on January 15, 2013, 03:32:24 pm
I find it funny how they are trying to sue a government for voluntarily giving them money.
It's be like Oxfam suing me for not donating £5, and I instead donated £3
It is hilarious. AIG downvoted the idea, but I think Maurice R. Greenberg (the former CEO) is going ahead with the suit.
Post by: Servant Corps on January 21, 2013, 01:19:06 pm
In contrary to popular belief, Kickstarter is not all about games.
(http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-width/images/2013/01/blogs/graphic-detail/20130119_woc796.png)
Source (http://www.economist.com/node/21569784?fsrc=scn/gp/wl/dc/winningoverthecrowd)
With much of Kickstarter's funding (and by implication, Kickstarter's profits) coming from games, it's probably inevitable that gaming will be associated with Kickstarter.
Post by: Darvi on January 21, 2013, 01:23:09 pm
Post by: penguinofhonor on January 21, 2013, 02:09:53 pm
Post by: penguinofhonor on January 21, 2013, 02:16:15 pm
Guys I think I found out how to get any Kickstarter to succeed.
Post by: lordcooper on January 21, 2013, 02:35:27 pm
Post by: Neonivek on January 23, 2013, 08:30:05 am
Funding Culling.
If a project gets overfunded. They should allow the person who runs it to suddenly take back donations to a max set by the person.
or just a funding maximum in general.
Post by: Draco18s on January 23, 2013, 09:00:49 am
Here is a feature Kickstarter should add
Funding Culling.
If a project gets overfunded. They should allow the person who runs it to suddenly take back donations to a max set by the person.
or just a funding maximum in general.
Whatever for?
Post by: Neonivek on January 23, 2013, 11:41:57 am
It would be a way for them to limit donations beyond just adding limits to every reward.
Post by: lordcooper on January 23, 2013, 01:44:20 pm
Post by: Neonivek on January 23, 2013, 02:46:26 pm
That really isn't in their best interests as a company though :-\
I assume you mean Kickstarter.
Post by: lordcooper on January 23, 2013, 02:48:44 pm
That really isn't in their best interests as a company though :-\
I assume you mean Kickstarter.
That would be both correct and (I would hope) blindingly obvious.
Post by: nenjin on January 24, 2013, 05:28:12 pm
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/homeworld/1227240p1.html
Because hey, why NOT ask fans to pay for you to get access to an IP that could earn you unknown amounts cash once you own it! Of course there'll be a second campaign to actually fund the development of the game. And of course they're going to offer original Homeworld for sale on Steam and everywhere else, because since fans just ponied up the money for them to have the rights to it, why NOT offer it again so they can make money on a product someone else put into their hands.
It's like the bar on crowdfunding is falling so far, people are getting the idea that there's literally NOTHING fans can't or shouldn't pay for.
Post by: Karlito on January 24, 2013, 08:23:06 pm
Post by: Draco18s on January 24, 2013, 08:28:04 pm
The mere fact that they're using Indiegogo's flexible funding casts doubt on their promise of a refund, and the whole project.
Yeah...
Post by: Zangi on January 24, 2013, 09:19:40 pm
The mere fact that they're using Indiegogo's flexible funding casts doubt on their promise of a refund, and the whole project.There is also the fact that the people holding Homeworld IP knows how much in funds the developer guy is going to have. So they can really hardball him into a really really crappy deal.
Post by: Servant Corps on January 25, 2013, 12:43:48 am
Here's something I wonder. Why not just buy the IP outright and then...release it into the public domain? That way, anybody could try their hands on that IP, without worrying about their fan project getting shut down.
Post by: lordcooper on January 25, 2013, 12:49:21 am
Here's something I wonder. Why not just buy the IP outright and then...release it into the public domain?
Where's the money in that?
Post by: MrWiggles on January 25, 2013, 08:24:44 am
Here's something I wonder. Why not just buy the IP outright and then...release it into the public domain? That way, anybody could try their hands on that IP, without worrying about their fan project getting shut down.Here a zannier idea, then blowing 50k on that, why not make your own original IP, instead of sucking the cock of nostalgia, and make that free.
Post by: nenjin on January 25, 2013, 10:22:34 am
Here's something I wonder. Why not just buy the IP outright and then...release it into the public domain? That way, anybody could try their hands on that IP, without worrying about their fan project getting shut down.Here a zannier idea, then blowing 50k on that, why not make your own original IP, instead of sucking the cock of nostalgia, and make that free.
Because then they wouldn't be risking someone else's money.
Post by: Servant Corps on January 25, 2013, 07:29:03 pm
Quote
“You arrogant thieves, why are you trying to steal Relic’s baby? Why don’t you make your own IP?”So you arrogantly decide to steal Relic's baby and slap it onto your own game then.
- We mention in the video that we actually started this project as our own IP. It was sheer coincidence that THQ went into bankruptcy a month into the production of our own game
This seems like a legitimate excuse though:
Quote
“Why is the campaign set to flexible funding? You must be a scam that will take whatever money is raised.”
- As per Indiegogo rules, a flexible funding campaign is the only option that would let us request modifications (subject to Indiegogo approval) to the end date of our campaign based on the timing of auction proceedings, however, we currently have no plans to make such a request.
Post by: scriver on January 28, 2013, 07:53:38 am
Quote from: Excerpt from pitch
I think this book will probably upset a few people, i think it will be looked at wrong by some people..
But.. if it just makes it into the hands of ONE little girl who feels like she has to be overweight to fit in with the current 70% of the overweight population of America, and it gives her the strength to know that being healthy isnt a bad thing.
Strangely, it didn't make it.
Post by: Leafsnail on January 28, 2013, 09:19:23 am
Post by: ToonyMan on January 28, 2013, 09:55:33 am
Post by: nenjin on January 28, 2013, 09:59:18 am
It's so hard for me to remember who are the oppressed ones!!!
They're the ones covered in shit.
Post by: Draco18s on January 28, 2013, 10:14:11 am
It's so hard for me to remember who are the oppressed ones!!!
They're the ones covered in shit.
Reminds me of the poor, poor, oppressed Christian minorities. Downtrodden by gays.
Post by: The Darkling Wolf on January 28, 2013, 04:40:19 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on January 29, 2013, 12:06:09 am
Post by: Draco18s on January 29, 2013, 12:16:54 am
Dont forget us Atheist, we're oppressing the fuck out theists.
Right, of course. I forgot.
Post by: lordcooper on January 29, 2013, 01:41:12 am
Post by: Draco18s on January 29, 2013, 01:48:59 am
A lot of atheists are pricks about it though.
A lot of Christians are too.
Compare 62,000,000 results (https://www.google.com/search?q=christian%20protest&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&source=hp&channel=np) to 5,330,000 (https://www.google.com/search?q=aetheist%20protest&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&source=hp&channel=np).
Post by: lordcooper on January 29, 2013, 01:56:56 am
Post by: Draco18s on January 29, 2013, 02:02:22 am
Weird, I had much higher (although basically proportional) numbers to you. And yes, a lot of them are. I'm not sure what having a greater number of web hits for 'protesting' has to do with the price of fish though.
Only example I can really bring to bear.
Although.
Is there a "Westboro Baptist Church" of Atheists?
I.e. "You are going to decompose and rot in the ground when you die because you are horrible people for believing in God, despite the fact that this is a Buddhist temple we're protesting in front of"?
Post by: MrWiggles on January 29, 2013, 02:04:48 am
Post by: Scelly9 on January 29, 2013, 02:06:31 am
So, how's Your World doing?
Post by: The Darkling Wolf on January 29, 2013, 09:41:24 am
Post by: Sergius on January 29, 2013, 10:17:59 am
A lot of atheists are pricks about it though.
The bar is much lower for atheists tho.
Basically: atheist who doesn't hide it from others = militant atheist prick.
Post by: nenjin on January 29, 2013, 11:09:13 am
Let's get off this topic. This is a bad idea.
Post by: MrWiggles on January 29, 2013, 05:28:37 pm
+1A lot of atheists are pricks about it though.
The bar is much lower for atheists tho.
Basically: atheist who doesn't hide it from others = militant atheist prick.
Post by: Neonivek on January 29, 2013, 06:19:13 pm
Quote
Basically: atheist who doesn't hide it from others = militant atheist prick
I wish I could take that as a sarcastic joke. Yet it seems to be the case in my experience.
Then again... I don't know anyone who has ever walked up to me and went "I am catholic!"
So it is probably just observer bias.
Post by: kaijyuu on January 29, 2013, 06:35:20 pm
I would also be quite surprised if you find any anti theist, that advocate violence for their aims.Go to FSTDT and read the comments.
Of course, poe's law, though.
Post by: Leafsnail on January 29, 2013, 06:43:05 pm
Post by: Draco18s on January 29, 2013, 09:09:31 pm
Either find us a hilarious Kickstarter promising to prove/disprove the existence of God once and for all or get off the subject.
We did have that Christian board game that utterly flopped.
Post by: MrWiggles on January 29, 2013, 10:41:55 pm
If only we'd shut up and stay in the closet.
Post by: Draco18s on January 29, 2013, 11:22:45 pm
It was the gay atheist and the doubting thomas that made it fail.
If only we'd shut up and stay in the closet.
Also Blizzard.
Post by: Shades on January 30, 2013, 05:35:29 am
Post by: Leafsnail on January 30, 2013, 07:34:11 am
Post by: kilakan on January 30, 2013, 08:54:45 am
Post by: Draco18s on January 30, 2013, 09:02:02 am
Dude's just jealous he didn't come up with the idea of jeans with buttons running down the crotch.
There's a reason we use zippers:
Buttons are too god damn slow.
(And that's how it was done Back In The Day. I think you can still get all-button jeans, but they're too hard for me to find)
Post by: Aptus on January 30, 2013, 09:13:24 am
Dude's just jealous he didn't come up with the idea of jeans with buttons running down the crotch.
There's a reason we use zippers:
Buttons are too god damn slow.
(And that's how it was done Back In The Day. I think you can still get all-button jeans, but they're too hard for me to find)
I will never ever use jeans with zippers. Buttons are for the man who respects the structural integrity of his down-there-parts and won't mind the extra four seconds it takes to "zip" and "unzip".
Post by: Draco18s on January 30, 2013, 09:14:07 am
I will never ever use jeans with zippers. Buttons are for the man who respects the structural integrity of his down-there-parts and won't mind the extra four seconds it takes to "zip" and "unzip".
Lol
Post by: kilakan on January 30, 2013, 09:30:10 am
Post by: Darvi on January 30, 2013, 09:31:49 am
Post by: miauw62 on January 30, 2013, 09:38:45 am
Post by: nenjin on January 30, 2013, 11:04:15 am
Post by: Rose on January 30, 2013, 12:09:36 pm
Post by: Draco18s on January 30, 2013, 12:48:12 pm
Post by: MorleyDev on January 30, 2013, 01:13:56 pm
Post by: tryrar on January 30, 2013, 01:34:06 pm
Post by: Draco18s on January 30, 2013, 01:44:02 pm
Seriously, that My Little Pony one scarred my retinas. WHY GOD WHY!!!!!
Meh, I've read worse.
Specifically, a poorly written piece of MLP smut involving Edward from Twilight.
Post by: Lightningfalcon on January 30, 2013, 06:22:50 pm
Seriously, that My Little Pony one scarred my retinas. WHY GOD WHY!!!!!I'm sure it can't be that ba- OH GOD MY BRAIN!
Post by: penguinofhonor on January 30, 2013, 06:28:49 pm
Post by: Draco18s on January 30, 2013, 06:47:58 pm
I really want the Uppercup (http://www.indiegogo.com/uppercup) so I can walk around and pretend I'm serious about having it.
I can't imagine that with the cup full of liquid you'd actually be able to hold it...but yes. Having one and pretending to be the hipster would be...hip.
Post by: Zangi on January 30, 2013, 07:02:12 pm
There are scarier things that lurk the intertubez. It is quite sobering to know what some of humanity's sweet dreams are made of.Seriously, that My Little Pony one scarred my retinas. WHY GOD WHY!!!!!I'm sure it can't be that ba- OH GOD MY BRAIN!
EDIT: So yea, lets drop this line of topic...
Post by: penguinofhonor on January 30, 2013, 07:03:51 pm
I really want the Uppercup (http://www.indiegogo.com/uppercup) so I can walk around and pretend I'm serious about having it.
I can't imagine that with the cup full of liquid you'd actually be able to hold it...but yes. Having one and pretending to be the hipster would be...hip.
How hipster is it to be ironically pretending to be a hipster?
Post by: Sergius on January 30, 2013, 07:14:27 pm
I really want the Uppercup (http://www.indiegogo.com/uppercup) so I can walk around and pretend I'm serious about having it.
I can't imagine that with the cup full of liquid you'd actually be able to hold it...but yes. Having one and pretending to be the hipster would be...hip.
Uppercup is a joke project tho. Of course that didn't stop the mainstream media from reporting it as true.
Post by: penguinofhonor on January 30, 2013, 07:38:25 pm
Post by: Draco18s on January 30, 2013, 08:32:12 pm
If it's a joke project that makes me want it even more.
And this is why we need 3D printers. So we can print one up and troll people.
Post by: lordcooper on January 30, 2013, 09:15:21 pm
I really want the Uppercup (http://www.indiegogo.com/uppercup) so I can walk around and pretend I'm serious about having it.
I can't imagine that with the cup full of liquid you'd actually be able to hold it...but yes. Having one and pretending to be the hipster would be...hip.
Uppercup is a joke project though. Of course that didn't stop the mainstream media from reporting it as true.
Flexible funding makes that a little sinister.
Post by: kingfisher1112 on January 31, 2013, 11:11:05 am
Watch the YouTube video too, and read the above page. It certainly seems achievable and realistic!
Post by: nenjin on January 31, 2013, 11:22:10 am
Uh-huh. That reminds me of Your World with about 50% more polish in presentation, and the exact same level of ambiguity and incompleteness of the ideas.
"It's like, a huge world right? And you can like, make cities or whole kingdoms. And you can like, fight other people. We want it to take a year to walk across the game space. Oh, and like, colonizing other worlds, 'n stuff."
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on January 31, 2013, 11:41:18 am
Post by: Draco18s on January 31, 2013, 11:51:10 am
http://universeprojects.blogspot.com.au/?m=0
Mmm, search feature... (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=search2;params=eJwtzDEOgCAQRNG72Nhq5XEILJOIQdYsqDHh8O4au_mvGB8vXwixj33qQw9ia1501pVvR7wfGQ2GZmfYQM1xyY-SCUtzMYlWRKVftAQZ37URvNCqeJZ0QSoOYfupLywlMgo.) so tasty...
NEW RULE:
Search the thread for the project title and URL before posting. We have 151 pages in this thread, it's going to be impossible to expect people to read them all, but searching takes 0.15 seconds.
Post by: scriver on January 31, 2013, 11:53:15 am
Post by: kingfisher1112 on January 31, 2013, 11:54:58 am
Post by: Draco18s on January 31, 2013, 11:55:04 am
There's no harm in something being posted twice.
Other than some people get all, "Meh, was posted" and then other people get upset at the dismissive response.
Post by: GlyphGryph on January 31, 2013, 12:05:49 pm
But this may just be due to my taste for niche documentaries. I would totally watch the documentary about My Little Pony convention musicians. I didn't even know MLP conventions were a thing! And convention documentaries are always either enjoyable or hilariously awful.
Not that I'll actually be funding it or anything...
Post by: Karlito on January 31, 2013, 01:13:30 pm
There's no harm in something being posted twice.This is the third time though. :D
I did get an email from TUP which said that another video would be getting put up soon. It's been kind of hard to make fun of their project when there hasn't been anything to go on, but hopefully that situation should improve.
Post by: miauw62 on January 31, 2013, 01:36:52 pm
Not EVERY project on that sight seems completely stupid.There was one in Belgium lately... I remember seeing something about MLP at the end of the local magazine I always read because it's pretty good. The last few pages always have conventions/expos/etc on them.
But this may just be due to my taste for niche documentaries. I would totally watch the documentary about My Little Pony convention musicians. I didn't even know MLP conventions were a thing! And convention documentaries are always either enjoyable or hilariously awful.
Not that I'll actually be funding it or anything...
Post by: Putnam on January 31, 2013, 01:41:10 pm
Alright, I have one here that is pre-kickstarter. But this one... This is goddamn ambitious. I debated where to put this ( When KS goes right or wrong) but I decided here due to the fact it could go very wrong, very fast. http://universeprojects.blogspot.com.au/?m=0
Watch the YouTube video too, and read the above page. It certainly seems achievable and realistic!
Yeah, that one is fucking stupid. Let me cross-post from what I said in the MSPA forum thread:
This is a stupid god damned idea.
It sounds like it's be a more boring EVE online with 500 times more processing power required.
The fact that they call it "most ambitious" should tell you something. It's not going to happen. This is easily harder to program as described than SBURB, if that gives you a sense of scale. Sburb at least has a bunch of ordinary game mechanics. This is promising impossibilities.
By harder than Sburb, I mean harder than Sburb if you include a fully-featured deterministic timeline that includes highly detailed AI for each individual consort, dersite, prospitian etc. This is seriously not going to go anywhere.
If it does go somewhere, color me surprised, we're officially living in the god damned science fiction future.
People say alchemization (putting two things together to make a new thing related to both) would be hard to program; this is promising that with everything.
Post by: Draco18s on January 31, 2013, 01:56:43 pm
If it does go somewhere, color me surprised, we're officially living in the god damned science fiction future.
If they succeed, then it's evidence supporting the fact that we, ourselves, are simulations running on a much grander computer.
http://www.simulation-argument.com/matrix.html
Because it would mean that at least one of the following is true:
(1) The chances that a species at our current level of development can avoid going extinct before becoming technologically mature is negligibly small
(2) Almost no technologically mature civilisations are interested in running computer simulations of minds like ours
(3) You are almost certainly in a simulation.
1) is saying that no civilizations ever develop the technology to run universe simulations (because if it cannot be done, then we can't be simulated beings).
2) is saying that no civilization would want to. If even a single civ decides to do it, and has the processing power to do so, then the number of simulated beings outnumbers the real ones by powers of 10 (that is, 1 million people running the sim 100 times each would cause 100,000,000,000,000,000 more "people" to be created).
3) if the first two are not both false, then this is true and probability states that we don't really exist (probably).
((Protip: the developers of TUP are promising to include every game ever created + stuff. This would include TUP.* Which means that TUP would be capable of simulating itself to n layers in faster than real time meaning that the game would need to intentionally slow itself down so we can interact with it at all, which would imply infinite computing power))
*If TUP can simulate running a modern computer + stuff on a modern computer (stated goal**), then that simulated computer should be capable of simulating a computer + stuff. Which could then simulate another computer....which essentially implies infinite computing power.
**Ok they haven't explicitly stated that TUP will be able to simulate a computer. But I guarantee that simulating a single 32 bit computer would be easier than simulating all of space in real time. Which is a stated goal.
==Side note==
The Infinity Computer (http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/infinity.html).
Post by: Servant Corps on February 03, 2013, 06:29:15 pm
Quote
With current limitations and trends in computing, it will be decades before researchers will be able to run even primitive simulations of the universe. But the UW team has suggested tests that can be performed now, or in the near future, that are sensitive to constraints imposed on future simulations by limited resources.Source (http://www.washington.edu/news/2012/12/10/do-we-live-in-a-computer-simulation-uw-researchers-say-idea-can-be-tested/)
Currently, supercomputers using a technique called lattice quantum chromodynamics and starting from the fundamental physical laws that govern the universe can simulate only a very small portion of the universe, on the scale of one 100-trillionth of a meter, a little larger than the nucleus of an atom, said Martin Savage, a UW physics professor.
Eventually, more powerful simulations will be able to model on the scale of a molecule, then a cell and even a human being. But it will take many generations of growth in computing power to be able to simulate a large enough chunk of the universe to understand the constraints on physical processes that would indicate we are living in a computer model.
However, Savage said, there are signatures of resource constraints in present-day simulations that are likely to exist as well in simulations in the distant future, including the imprint of an underlying lattice if one is used to model the space-time continuum.
The supercomputers performing lattice quantum chromodynamics calculations essentially divide space-time into a four-dimensional grid. That allows researchers to examine what is called the strong force, one of the four fundamental forces of nature and the one that binds subatomic particles called quarks and gluons together into neutrons and protons at the core of atoms.
“If you make the simulations big enough, something like our universe should emerge,” Savage said. Then it would be a matter of looking for a “signature” in our universe that has an analog in the current small-scale simulations.
Of course, on-topic, if it'll take numerous generations to be able to build a supercomputer to accurately simulate a cell, then TUP is even more ridiculous than Your World.
Post by: Draco18s on February 11, 2013, 11:43:42 am
Not a universe in a box, but it IS the game YOU want it to be. The game is defined by the player's style and responds to their ideas.
And in limitless multiplayer.
Quote
Project Awakened is a genre-defying game that lets you answer the question: "Who do you want to be?" For the first time in a modern AAA action game, you will have the opportunity to completely define your dream videogame character, from abilities to aesthetics, all while playing in an action-packed world that responds to your personal playstyle.
Post by: The Darkling Wolf on February 11, 2013, 11:46:37 am
Post by: Leafsnail on February 11, 2013, 12:17:43 pm
Post by: nenjin on February 11, 2013, 02:07:22 pm
The language it uses is really vague and silly, but looking at the gameplay videos what it actually seems to be is a 3rd person shooter with lots of customization. That could work fine.
That's because it's the guts of a cancelled game they were working on, that they tweaked for the demo presentation. It's not even on the engine they want to use (which is UT4). It's on UT3. I'm guessing the engine licensing is a chunk of their funding.
It's sounding like Frankenstein's game, a cancelled superhero game morphing into a dystopian 3rd person shooter, through two engines. That alone would make me skeptical, but then they dog pile on with the language of the over-reacher, saying stuff like "redefining the genre" and "redefining what people think of when they blah". So for me that's two massive red flags right from the outset, despite how much I like the basic concepts at work like customization and guns or magic. The third red flag for me is the funding goal, which I'm guessing is driven largely by their ambition. Taken together, there's tons of reasons I wouldn't back it. If they had an actual tech demo of the game in pre-production, it'd be one thing. But they're trying to sneak a a mockup in there because they have all the assets and resources from a cancelled game. Their hope is to port all that over to the new engine.
Post by: GalenEvil on February 11, 2013, 07:11:33 pm
Post by: Valid_Dark on February 26, 2013, 07:07:10 am
If it does go somewhere, color me surprised, we're officially living in the god damned science fiction future.
If they succeed, then it's evidence supporting the fact that we, ourselves, are simulations running on a much grander computer.
http://www.simulation-argument.com/matrix.html
Because it would mean that at least one of the following is true:
(1) The chances that a species at our current level of development can avoid going extinct before becoming technologically mature is negligibly small
(2) Almost no technologically mature civilisations are interested in running computer simulations of minds like ours
(3) You are almost certainly in a simulation.
1) is saying that no civilizations ever develop the technology to run universe simulations (because if it cannot be done, then we can't be simulated beings).
2) is saying that no civilization would want to. If even a single civ decides to do it, and has the processing power to do so, then the number of simulated beings outnumbers the real ones by powers of 10 (that is, 1 million people running the sim 100 times each would cause 100,000,000,000,000,000 more "people" to be created).
3) if the first two are not both false, then this is true and probability states that we don't really exist (probably).
((Protip: the developers of TUP are promising to include every game ever created + stuff. This would include TUP.* Which means that TUP would be capable of simulating itself to n layers in faster than real time meaning that the game would need to intentionally slow itself down so we can interact with it at all, which would imply infinite computing power))
*If TUP can simulate running a modern computer + stuff on a modern computer (stated goal**), then that simulated computer should be capable of simulating a computer + stuff. Which could then simulate another computer....which essentially implies infinite computing power.
**Ok they haven't explicitly stated that TUP will be able to simulate a computer. But I guarantee that simulating a single 32 bit computer would be easier than simulating all of space in real time. Which is a stated goal.
==Side note==
The Infinity Computer (http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/infinity.html).
You should watch the movie "The Thirteenth Floor"
Post by: Coalwalker on February 26, 2013, 10:27:05 am
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/461687407/kickstarter-open-source-death-star
Post by: olemars on February 26, 2013, 10:41:21 am
Screw your simulators, these guys are thinking BIG:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/461687407/kickstarter-open-source-death-star
This should obviously have been in the "When Kickstarter goes right" thread.
Post by: Coalwalker on February 26, 2013, 10:55:12 am
It is hilarious, but as a joke, it could give Kickstarter bad publicity.Screw your simulators, these guys are thinking BIG:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/461687407/kickstarter-open-source-death-star
This should obviously have been in the "When Kickstarter goes right" thread.
Post by: tryrar on February 26, 2013, 12:15:29 pm
Screw your simulators, these guys are thinking BIG:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/461687407/kickstarter-open-source-death-star
............
...........
..........
WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN
Post by: PanH on February 26, 2013, 12:24:20 pm
They already got 2000backers and 300k$ (for 20m$ goal). And there's comment about people pledging 7500$ :D
Apparently, there's also concurrent rebels projects
Post by: olemars on February 26, 2013, 12:32:56 pm
Apparently, there's also concurrent rebels projects
That would have to be this one:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/simonkwan/crowdfunding-rebel-alliance-x-wing-squadron (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/simonkwan/crowdfunding-rebel-alliance-x-wing-squadron)
Currently the alliance is winning.
Post by: Criptfeind on February 26, 2013, 01:09:28 pm
COULD IT BE A SECRET EMPIRE PROJECT TO DRAIN FUNDING FROM THE OPPOSITION AND GAIN MORE FOR THEMSELVES?
Post by: tryrar on February 26, 2013, 07:43:07 pm
Post by: zombie urist on February 26, 2013, 08:51:21 pm
Also publicity I guess.
Post by: PanH on February 26, 2013, 10:48:25 pm
Quote from: X wing project
Risks and challenges As with the Death Star, our biggest challenge is making sure Kickstarter and all of our Backers know that this is also a joke. We LOVE the Death Star Kickstarter project, and just wanted to post the logical challenge project to it.
In the hilarious and unlikely event that we come close to reaching our Funding Goal, we'll pull the plug on the project. We might have an actual engineer on our team, but Simon has no clue how to build an X-Wing. Well, nothing more complex than a Lego model, anyways.
Post by: Servant Corps on March 06, 2013, 04:34:06 pm
This isn't Kickstarter per se but....
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/homeworld/1227240p1.html
Because hey, why NOT ask fans to pay for you to get access to an IP that could earn you unknown amounts cash once you own it! Of course there'll be a second campaign to actually fund the development of the game. And of course they're going to offer original Homeworld for sale on Steam and everywhere else, because since fans just ponied up the money for them to have the rights to it, why NOT offer it again so they can make money on a product someone else put into their hands.
It's like the bar on crowdfunding is falling so far, people are getting the idea that there's literally NOTHING fans can't or shouldn't pay for.
These people raised over $13,000 on Indiegogo, but stated that they now have enough money to participate in the bidding process (whatever that means), so they aren't going to give out refunds juusst yet. They, of course, didn't get the $50,000 they wanted, so now they have set up new "Kickstarter" (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/teampix/homeworld-touch-ios-android-and-homeworld-3-pc-mac) to try and raise more funds for the bidding process. They also claim an automatic refund if they fail to acquire the license.
Either (a) this is the most cleverly executed scam I have ever seen, (b) this is done by a bunch of ameuters who are in over their head, or (c) the market value of the Homeworld IP is so unbelievably low that this is actually realistically possible.
Post by: nenjin on March 06, 2013, 04:41:58 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on March 06, 2013, 10:03:57 pm
Post by: Servant Corps on March 10, 2013, 10:17:49 pm
Quote
In addition to our own own private equity, lender, and investor financing, we're looking to the Kickstarter community to supplement our available funds for licensing and executing this project.So maybe they already have enough funds to make a bid in the first place due to investor/private equity/borrowing, and don't really need a Kickstarter/Indiegogo to make a bid. The whole point may be a promotional stunt, to try and get more people interested in their iPad port of Homeworld 1.
Post by: lordcooper on March 13, 2013, 12:41:25 am
Post by: Putnam on March 13, 2013, 12:42:52 am
Boy P'n in Toilet (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1377388133/boy-pn-in-toilet-2012-allen-tebeau-table-top-fount)
$1.00 pledged!
Post by: zombie urist on March 13, 2013, 12:47:17 am
His website is from the 90s :P
Post by: Sensei on March 13, 2013, 03:20:43 am
Boy P'n in Toilet (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1377388133/boy-pn-in-toilet-2012-allen-tebeau-table-top-fount)
Quote
Pledge $175 or more
0 backers
One of the first New Cheaper Editions of The "Boy P'n in Toilet" Table-Top Fountains created by A.R.T.ech when they come out 2014?
Estimated delivery: Jun 2014
Ships within the US only
Dude what?
Post by: PanH on March 13, 2013, 09:20:39 am
He did an update on his first backer. Hurray !Boy P'n in Toilet (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1377388133/boy-pn-in-toilet-2012-allen-tebeau-table-top-fount)
$1.00 pledged!
Post by: penguinofhonor on March 13, 2013, 09:35:32 am
Just imagine hundreds of people out there with a "boy p'n in toilet" fountain that you're absolutely certain you're superior to. You can't get a bigger self esteem boost than that for just a buck.
Post by: miauw62 on March 13, 2013, 10:30:05 am
Oh, and has anyone heard anything about LORE?
E: Doesn't look like he made it (surprise!), but he did manage to make a glorious piece of art:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
E2: Oh, looks like he gave up. Now he's started on "Project AW".
From one of the youtube vids:
Quote
Project Aw is a new survival rpg with online Multi-player where you craft, construct, kill and build to survive. so share, rate, like and subscribe comment also i'm willing into putting things you all will like to see in a game as well
I severely doubt this guy's ability to make a working multiplayer.
Post by: Fniff on March 13, 2013, 10:45:26 am
Spoiler: AAAGH (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: AAAAAAAAAGH (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH (click to show/hide)
Post by: lordcooper on March 13, 2013, 11:42:10 am
Post by: Fniff on March 13, 2013, 11:43:38 am
Post by: penguinofhonor on March 13, 2013, 12:03:44 pm
Post by: miauw62 on March 13, 2013, 12:06:19 pm
Post by: NobodyPro on March 26, 2013, 11:40:20 pm
Post by: lordcooper on March 26, 2013, 11:42:50 pm
Nobody's going to buy lemonade from an undergrad.
Bullshit, I've been to McDonalds.
Post by: Servant Corps on April 26, 2013, 09:11:00 am
As of the time of this post, said professional has raised over 1.7 million dollars, out of the total 2 million dollars he is asking for (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1869987317/wish-i-was-here-1?ref=live).
Post by: Scoops Novel on April 26, 2013, 10:10:16 am
"There is something particularly awful about professionals who have already risen to the near top of their field asking for handouts as if they can't get work any other way." (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/is-zach-braff-ruining-kickstarter--222945546.html)
As of the time of this post, said professional has raised over 1.7 million dollars, out of the total 2 million dollars he is asking for (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1869987317/wish-i-was-here-1?ref=live).
I think you are right about this, though there are ostentatiously good reasons based around procuring investors interest, but if you're complaints are limited to kickstarter then i will be disappointed. I dislike the irrelevant status of wealth when it comes to games. Apparently its only worth complaning about when said developer has been to space and is wearing conspicuos bling, and its enough of a sacred cow for there to be little to no questioning when millions are proudly proclaimed to have been spent on it. I admit to hypocrisy given where I'm posting this, but continued development seems to be comparitively cheap and crucial to the psychological well being of many on these boards, besides being a model example of how to handle a community.
Post by: scriver on April 26, 2013, 10:11:42 am
Post by: Scoops Novel on April 26, 2013, 10:12:14 am
Nobody's going to buy lemonade from an undergrad.
Bullshit, I've been to McDonalds.
Seconded.
Post by: Leafsnail on April 26, 2013, 11:27:41 am
Post by: Draco18s on April 26, 2013, 11:29:48 am
Since when is Beard even close be near the top of "his field"?
"Beard"?
Post by: Sergius on April 26, 2013, 11:58:32 am
Or that people are getting ripped off because they don't get a share of the profits. I guess those who say this thinks people need to be protected from themselves (since they chose to give money away without expecting a return, merely because they prefer to have this thing made vs this thing not made at all).
I don't mean specifically in this forum, but from a lot of detractors and critics of this crowdfunding thing.
Post by: Draco18s on April 26, 2013, 12:33:15 pm
I don't mean specifically in this forum, but from a lot of detractors and critics of this crowdfunding thing.
I think it's more of a "personal wealth" thing. If you have 10 million dollars a year worth of income, spending 2 million on a personal project is a drop in the bucket.
I'm pretty sure most people spend a larger percentage of their yearly income on alcohol.
Post by: penguinofhonor on April 26, 2013, 12:41:05 pm
Post by: Draco18s on April 26, 2013, 01:14:18 pm
20% of your income is a drop in the bucket?
When you make $10mil a year?
Yes.
It is impossible to consume more than about $150,000 worth of goods a year. Above that, you're either saving money (because you can't spend it) or are investing it (to make even more money). Also remember that it's 20% of one year's income. It's not a reoccurring cost.
Post by: nenjin on April 26, 2013, 07:10:02 pm
The sooner people internalize that rule, the better. I evaluate every Kickstarter now based on the people behind it, as well as the concept. There is a distinct difference between an amateur and professional, between a bedroom developer and a team trying to pay salaries and pay rent on their building. They have different needs, different goals and different capabilities.
It's why I ended up not backing any inXile projects. Or Steve Jackson. Or a lot of these professionals. They've got every right to use KS as loosey-goosey investment sourcing. But I'm not interested in backing professional businesses/business personalities anymore, unless it's about resurrecting an IP that I'm insanely devoted to.
Instead, I'm interested in backing dreamers and could-be professionals, new IPs from newbies. Those are the projects that get my love, when they align with what I'd like to see. Sure, it's riskier. They may not be able to hack it, their product might suck donkey balls. The same risk exists for professionals and amateurs, just in different amounts.
But Kickstarter is all about wish fulfillment, the backers and the creators, and frankly, people with millions to their names are capable of fulfilling their own damn wishes. If someone just wanted to create a thing, and fuck the financial outcome, that's a motivation I can get behind. That's a dream and a wish I'm willing to take a gamble on, that's where the magic happens, to me.
The rest? I grow more cynical with each passing year, especially when were starting to see serial Kickstarters, like inXile. That's not how I want to see Kickstarter get used, and that's not how I personally think it works best. After the 4th, 5th, 6th? inXile KS (assuming any of this stuff they've done is truly good and successful), it becomes a case of seeing how the sausage gets made, economically speaking. When a successful company with a warchest starts telling you "This could only happen because of YOU!", it should start setting off BS sensors in everyone's head. That's the tag line, not reality, for some of these people.
And, at least as it relates to game, we STILL haven't truly seen the proof in the pudding on ANY of the games that rode the initial video game Kickstarter wave...or who continue to.
Does this mean I'm in favor of the publisher model overall instead of the crowdfunding model? I dunno. Dealing with publishers forces developers to be accountable in ways that they're not with crowdfunding. That lack of accountability is worrisome to me, and I've kind of become anxious about how a lot of these big projects finally shake out.
Post by: Neonivek on April 26, 2013, 07:16:49 pm
Though yeah I have seen people who could have EASILY funded their own games do kickstarters anyway.
Admitting there is another reason to do kickstarter funding instead of your own anyway. It determines interest.
Post by: Sergius on April 26, 2013, 08:54:09 pm
I don't mean specifically in this forum, but from a lot of detractors and critics of this crowdfunding thing.
I think it's more of a "personal wealth" thing.
Then you quoted the wrong paragraph in my post.
Post by: Draco18s on April 26, 2013, 10:19:45 pm
I don't mean specifically in this forum, but from a lot of detractors and critics of this crowdfunding thing.
I think it's more of a "personal wealth" thing.
Then you quoted the wrong paragraph in my post.
Maybe.
Deal with it.
Post by: miauw62 on April 27, 2013, 05:05:55 am
Well, the guy that made that has started on a new project, as I have said. For some reason he replied to my 5-month-old comment on one of his videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4taJ_61wv0c&lch=email_reply&lc=DjBWOJwtcOkTw3j2smMdCQkpWY6hchJegKAVDeYwDQE&lcor=1&feature=em-comment_reply_received < Linky.
Quote
Update on that i have been putting multiplayer in the game it is coming along great. I will be live streaming and letting people join the server on my live stream to text it out for them self's. Once i get a good base and enough made i'll kickstart this project . My plan is to have people happy with the starting project then build on it with the kickstarter . It may have a iso view but its still as complex as lore would have been . Also i learn and put in peep to peep servers and a master server
Quote
lol ran out of space also im working on a way for people to make there on servers to play with there friends if thats what they won't . Also this want be an easy game you can't choose hard are easy mode . This is for the hardcore people who like to get a challenge zero easy fight's this game will be a fight for your life. A game of skill and on the fly thinking when it comes to a new encounter's
Yes, he's going to kickstart it again.
You can tell that it's going to be terrible if he's rambling about real pro hardcoar gamurz no babes allowed.
Post by: Sigulbard on April 27, 2013, 06:31:29 am
Post by: Draco18s on April 27, 2013, 09:10:02 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0BW_ac7xkQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0BW_ac7xkQ)
Ow my brain.
Wait, no, the pain was over here:
QuoteUpdate on that i have been putting multiplayer in the game it is coming along great. I will be live streaming and letting people join the server on my live stream to text it out for them self's. Once i get a good base and enough made i'll kickstart this project . My plan is to have people happy with the starting project then build on it with the kickstarter . It may have a iso view but its still as complex as lore would have been . Also i learn and put in peep to peep servers and a master serverQuotelol ran out of space also im working on a way for people to make there on servers to play with there friends if thats what they won't . Also this want be an easy game you can't choose hard are easy mode . This is for the hardcore people who like to get a challenge zero easy fight's this game will be a fight for your life. A game of skill and on the fly thinking when it comes to a new encounter's
x..x
Post by: tryrar on April 27, 2013, 09:35:40 am
Post by: RulerOfNothing on April 27, 2013, 09:46:46 am
Post by: miauw62 on April 27, 2013, 09:49:37 am
THE MANDATAUR
Post by: The Darkling Wolf on April 27, 2013, 10:16:01 am
Wasn't that the game that actually started this thread? Or maybe I'm confusing that game with some other ridiculously overambitious game project.Nah, I think that was Bunky Bartlett, his robot hookers, and GUILD BANKS
Post by: Sergius on April 28, 2013, 12:34:52 pm
I don't mean specifically in this forum, but from a lot of detractors and critics of this crowdfunding thing.
I think it's more of a "personal wealth" thing.
Then you quoted the wrong paragraph in my post.
Maybe.
Deal with it.
I don't even understand what that means, so I'm just going to drop it.
(You'll still be wrong tho 8))
Post by: Draco18s on April 28, 2013, 03:44:29 pm
I don't even understand what that means, so I'm just going to drop it.
(You'll still be wrong tho 8))
Means that it's kind of too late to fix it, now that it's contained in like five quote pyramids.
Post by: Tellemurius on May 04, 2013, 12:53:01 pm
I found this surfing around indiegogo, the case looks amazing but their man selling point is EMF protection. Seriously? First off EM emissions from a laptop are not even near powerful as a cell phone (the item that i might add usually sits next to your junk most of the day), wifi radios are located on the lid and most LCD screens today now use LED instead of a CCFL backscreen. Even if said electronics are remotely causing damage to you, there are worse things that can kill you faster like for example air pollution. Their second argument is it protects you from heat but hell your laptop is getting that hot you might want to put it down genius. Another scheme cashing in on the oblivious and the hypochondriac.
Post by: Fniff on May 04, 2013, 01:39:06 pm
So it may have a purpose if you like lying down and playing with your laptop in bed.
Post by: Tellemurius on May 04, 2013, 02:24:43 pm
Post by: olemars on May 04, 2013, 06:27:00 pm
Post by: SealyStar on May 04, 2013, 08:24:15 pm
playing with your laptop in bed.
I'm not sure it's the radiation from the laptop that's gonna waste precious reproductive cells if that's what you're using it for. IYKWIM.
Post by: LaDestitute on May 05, 2013, 08:25:30 am
Post by: Funk on May 05, 2013, 04:03:06 pm
I'm not sure it's the radiation from the laptop that's gonna waste precious reproductive cells if that's what you're using it for. IYKWIM.
it the heat that does the damage, just like tight trousers and wearing clothes in bed.
Post by: Sensei on May 05, 2013, 05:08:27 pm
Quote
Description of copyrighted material: Hasbro, Inc. and Hasbro Studios LLC (“Hasbro”), which own the copyrights and trademarks for the MY LITTLE PONY® (commonly referred to as “MLP”) line of toy ponies, and the FRIENDSHIP IS MAGIC® animated television series. Hasbro’s copyrights and trademarks also include the pony character images and names such as RAINBOW DASH®, PINKIE PIE®, TWILIGHT SPARKLE®, RARITY®, FLUTTERSHY®, and APPLEJACK® as well as their corresponding “Cutie Marks,” or the unique symbols located on the ponies’ haunches which identify each pony (for example, the RAINBOW DASH character’s “Cutie Mark” is a rainbow lightning bolt emerging from a cloud).
Post by: Aklyon on May 05, 2013, 05:16:13 pm
Post by: Putnam on May 05, 2013, 05:48:09 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on May 05, 2013, 05:51:50 pm
Post by: Putnam on May 05, 2013, 05:54:07 pm
Post by: Aklyon on May 05, 2013, 05:56:26 pm
Sorry, my definition of "threat to copyright" may be a bit more lenient than others :PAre you sure you aren't getting it confused with trademarks?
Post by: SealyStar on May 05, 2013, 06:18:00 pm
I'm definitely not. Hasbro has shut down just about everything that poses even a minor fraction of a threat to copyright.
I was going to say "Eeyup", but now I'm worried they'll C&D me for that one too.
Post by: Sensei on May 05, 2013, 06:39:54 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on May 05, 2013, 06:48:50 pm
Post by: PTTG?? on May 05, 2013, 08:47:06 pm
As an aside, why do lawyers feel the need to write the names of characters in all caps? It reminds me of the Lord of the Rings risk game I got a few years back. Every single card had a disclaimer on the bottom like "'ROHAN(c) is a copyrighted(c) property of PARAMOUNT(c) or WHATEVER(c) company it was that MADE(c)(c) the STUPID(c) movie. (c)"
Post by: MarcAFK on May 05, 2013, 09:29:18 pm
Post by: SealyStar on May 05, 2013, 09:56:15 pm
This is one of those things where a takedown is completely reasonable. Because, y'know, people are trying to actively sell a product specifically tied to something which Hasbro owns.
Yeah, I'd say here it's justified, but it brings to mind the more dubious takedowns that caused widespread butthurt.
Post by: Sensei on May 06, 2013, 03:59:43 am
Post by: SealyStar on May 06, 2013, 02:11:59 pm
Perhaps... but the pony commemorative coin kickstarter will not be missed.
Yeah. For the most part. I'm sure there's probably some rage if you go to those parts of the internet where the forum's admins allow such things to be discussed (wink wink nudge nudge), but I'm going to assume it's still relatively minor.
Post by: palsch on May 06, 2013, 03:49:18 pm
As an aside, why do lawyers feel the need to write the names of characters in all caps?
I know certain publishing groups do this for book titles, although I always assumed that was because italics (the better standard) were harder or impossible to do in plaintext/email and on typewriters. I think it depends on the style guides you are taking your cues from. Wouldn't surprise me if a certain style happened to get popular in the IP legal world and just happened to stick.
Post by: penguinofhonor on May 06, 2013, 05:04:17 pm
I'm definitely not. Hasbro has shut down just about everything that poses even a minor fraction of a threat to copyright.
Aren't there like a thousand pony shirts on WeLoveFine and other stuff? How do those stay up?
Post by: SealyStar on May 06, 2013, 05:10:45 pm
I'm definitely not. Hasbro has shut down just about everything that poses even a minor fraction of a threat to copyright.
Aren't there like a thousand pony shirts on WeLoveFine and other stuff? How do those stay up?
Those are the official shit.
Post by: MrWiggles on May 06, 2013, 11:37:47 pm
Post by: Neonivek on May 06, 2013, 11:43:26 pm
Why shouldn't Hasbro protect its IP?
Well there is protecting your IP and then there is fighting for absolute control over it even when such things may fall under public domain.
Post by: Sensei on May 07, 2013, 01:42:05 am
Post by: Karlito on May 07, 2013, 02:11:11 am
Post by: Leafsnail on May 07, 2013, 06:40:12 am
Post by: NobodyPro on May 07, 2013, 06:45:38 am
Post by: Zangi on May 07, 2013, 07:33:53 am
The only way you can justify using an IP like MLP is if your product could exist without it (http://www.mane6.com/). That is to say, your better off making something original.tl;dr
Pony fighting game, like street fighter/tekken. Would have been free. Hasbro did takedown, it was super effective.
Now, it is going all original. The head developer(? dunno title) of MLP Season 1, Lauren (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Faust) Faust (http://fyre-flye.deviantart.com/) is doing the character design for them now.... or something like that.
Post by: Draco18s on May 07, 2013, 08:13:50 am
Post by: Tellemurius on May 07, 2013, 06:51:27 pm
Its actually considered a industry standard as i know insurance agents put all of their work in as caps.As an aside, why do lawyers feel the need to write the names of characters in all caps?
I know certain publishing groups do this for book titles, although I always assumed that was because italics (the better standard) were harder or impossible to do in plaintext/email and on typewriters. I think it depends on the style guides you are taking your cues from. Wouldn't surprise me if a certain style happened to get popular in the IP legal world and just happened to stick.
Post by: Zangi on May 09, 2013, 11:36:14 am
No having to deal with lowercase shenanigans that trolls will pull, if it was possible.Its actually considered a industry standard as i know insurance agents put all of their work in as caps.As an aside, why do lawyers feel the need to write the names of characters in all caps?
I know certain publishing groups do this for book titles, although I always assumed that was because italics (the better standard) were harder or impossible to do in plaintext/email and on typewriters. I think it depends on the style guides you are taking your cues from. Wouldn't surprise me if a certain style happened to get popular in the IP legal world and just happened to stick.
Post by: Servant Corps on May 10, 2013, 11:28:41 am
Well, Team Pix got fully-funded this time around. But Team Pix were outbidded at the last minute by a tiny, little-known company called Gearbox (http://www.gearboxsoftware.com/community/articles/1029/homeworld-acquisition-and-plans/). Team Pix is currently in the process of handing out refunds, as they promised to do so in both the Indiegogo and the Kickstarter. Or at least they say they are in the process of processing refundings...
Team Pix is also returning back to its original plans of creating their own IP. So they still plan on making an RTS, but now "Homeworld-inspired".
EDIT: And because I was curious...
Team Pix raised a total of over $70,000 through both its Indiegogo campaign and its Kickstarter campaign. (http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/04/19/homeworld-license-auctioned-off-just-not-to-the-save-homeworld-campaign/)
Gearbox made a bid of $1.35 million dollars. (http://www.technologytell.com/gaming/111249/gearbox-software-is-the-new-owner-of-the-homeworld-franchise/)
EDIT2: It seemed that Paradox and Stardock also made bids too, both higher than what TeamPix has made.
Post by: Ameablable on May 10, 2013, 12:39:10 pm
Why are people funding this! are there just lots of rich people who don't care about money?
Post by: Leafsnail on May 10, 2013, 12:47:00 pm
Post by: GlyphGryph on May 10, 2013, 12:51:51 pm
Yeah, I'd say here it's justified, but it brings to mind the more dubious takedowns that caused widespread butthurt.I'm actually really interested to know exactly what takedowns they've made that weren't obviously damaging to their brand? They seem to allow the internet go about things generally unfettered in regards to the MLP stuff. The only counter-examples I've seen were... the Mane6 game, which they ignored for as long as they could but let's be honest, they had a perfectly justifiable reason to be opposed, and the sort of thing that happened with these coins which were no-brainers.
Post by: Sergius on May 10, 2013, 01:46:25 pm
This guy got 602$ for nothing. (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thereport/dat-ass-up?ref=popular)
Why are people funding this! are there just lots of rich people who don't care about money?
There's a certain class of internet user who has a lot more money than things to spend it on, yes. I'm kindof amazed that project hasn't been taken down by Kickstarter, I guess it is kindof funny
Well, maybe a lot of people just want a tweet saying they just backed Dat Ass Up on Kickstarter.
Even if Kickstarter takes it down, people still got their tweet saying they just backed Dat Ass Up on Kickstarter. So ironically, they'll get their backing rewards for free.
EDIT: Oh wait, actually you're buying a crappy t-shirt :)
Post by: Ameablable on May 10, 2013, 02:00:29 pm
Oh wait, actually you're buying a crappy t-shirt :)no only 24 of his 130 backers actually paid 20 bucks for that shirt. if everyone had bought the shirt he would have 2600$
Post by: penguinofhonor on May 10, 2013, 02:16:56 pm
Post by: Sergius on May 10, 2013, 02:21:08 pm
Oh wait, actually you're buying a crappy t-shirt :)no only 24 of his 130 backers actually paid 20 bucks for that shirt. if everyone had bought the shirt he would have 2600$
Ah well, I guess the t-shirt was optional.
Can't you say "I backed dat ass up on kickstarter" on twitter without paying $20?
Sure. Pay $1.
And it's not you saying that in twitter, it's Kickstarter auto-tweeting... with your user, or something. Er, well, in the end I guess it's the same as you doing it.
But... the lulz, I guess.
Post by: Draco18s on May 10, 2013, 02:33:09 pm
Oh wait, actually you're buying a crappy t-shirt :)no only 24 of his 130 backers actually paid 20 bucks for that shirt. if everyone had bought the shirt he would have 2600$
Ah well, I guess the t-shirt was optional.Can't you say "I backed dat ass up on kickstarter" on twitter without paying $20?
Sure. Pay $1.
And it's not you saying that in twitter, it's Kickstarter auto-tweeting... with your user, or something. Er, well, in the end I guess it's the same as you doing it.
But... the lulz, I guess.
What I don't get is why those people didn't immediately cancel their pledge.
Post by: Servant Corps on May 10, 2013, 02:40:07 pm
Post by: Ameablable on May 10, 2013, 02:43:50 pm
Project creator just cancelled the project 1 minute ago. So no money will be transferred.now all those people wont be getting shirts!
what a douche. holds a stupid kickstarter people actually want the shirts and he cancels.
Post by: Leafsnail on May 10, 2013, 04:00:37 pm
Post by: Sergius on May 10, 2013, 05:16:15 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on May 10, 2013, 06:57:03 pm
Were they original ponies that happen to be drawn in the style of any of the My Little Pony shows? Was it using any of the Pony in the any of the tv shows? Was it using any trade mark items? Such as but not limited to, the name of the franchise, the name of the characters from the show?Why shouldn't Hasbro protect its IP?
Well there is protecting your IP and then there is fighting for absolute control over it even when such things may fall under public domain.
If the dude was making original pony shirts that happen to be in the same style as the show without any trademark items, then Hasbro had weak grounds for its C&D. I can see an argument being made, that (depending on quality of said product) that it could be confused for being official merchandise, and it opens up Hasbro to potential law suits, that if it happens to include pony that happen to share design elements from those t-shirts.
But the only way to resolve if Hasbro C&D had merit, is to take it to court.
Post by: Sensei on May 10, 2013, 07:05:26 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on May 10, 2013, 07:19:13 pm
For the record, no, it was selling physical merchandise including the actual names and symbols from the show/toys.
Then Hasbro has a strong case for a C&D.
Post by: MarcAFK on May 11, 2013, 01:16:08 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on May 11, 2013, 04:18:20 am
Post by: Putnam on May 11, 2013, 04:19:24 am
Post by: Neonivek on May 11, 2013, 04:22:31 am
Besides, it's not like Hasbro has a choice. If they don't act upon these infringements, they risk loosing the trademark/copyright/ Intellectual property.
Honestly every time I hear that a buzz is in my ear that just goes "That's not right" and yet I know nothing about it.
Something seems wormy and just not right about that. Like it is meant to disadvantage someone incredibly unfairly.
Post by: palsch on May 11, 2013, 06:13:07 am
Besides, it's not like Hasbro has a choice. If they don't act upon these infringements, they risk loosing the trademark/copyright/ Intellectual property.
This is only true for trademarks.
Trademarks, unlike copyrights or patents, are unlimited in their duration but only so long as they are in use and enforced. Either not using them for a period (~5 years) or failing to defend them against others use of them (where that use is substantial and the trademark holder is aware of it) is grounds for the trademark being considered defunct.
The best example here would be Mickey Mouse. Disney wants to keep trading on him as a trademarked symbol of their brand. They don't want to give control over that image - an image entirely entangled with Disney - to whoever cares to throw together a mouse-ear product or ten. That means they have to enforce their trademark against everyone, not just those who are producing bad (in their eyes) products. They have to either license or shut down every substantial infringement on their trademark.
Compare to copyright. You get the rights for a given duration. What you do with those rights - how you enforce them - is entirely up to you. Your ignoring a thousand people pirating your latest film doesn't stop you suing the thousand-and-first person.
Post by: Sensei on May 11, 2013, 12:28:46 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on May 11, 2013, 03:57:58 pm
Also hasbro happens to own the trademark for equine posterior tatoos.
If someone where to sell a line Pony merchandise, of whatever that happen to match the style of the any of the MLP shows but were all original ponies with original flank designs, Hasbro probably would have a harder time making a case that it was infringing upon their IP space and causing market confusion and market dilution for their merchandise. There no real clear cut lines of what is or isn't too close. It also matter how these Off Brand Pony Look-A-Likes were marketing their pony merch. If they were say, encouraging market confusion, or not doing anything to separate their brand, that would generally lean on the 'bad' sign, but if they make effort to separate themselves from Hasbro, that would lead closer to the 'good' sign. But again, there are no hard laws for this. This is all subjective judgement stuff. If it were brought to Court, it would lie with the opinion of the Judge.
Post by: GlyphGryph on May 11, 2013, 10:47:19 pm
The reason you can lose trademarks is because, if you allow people to use it without contesting it, you lose the ability to argue that they would think they were buying from your company.
Trademarks are very very different from copyright law, as they are primarily intended to be an anti-fraud consumer-protection tool. A stand-in identifier for the company that owns them. This isn't always how they are used, but this is how they work.
Quote
Copyright in of itself has strong competent 'use it or lose it'. Your case against infringers (that you were aware of), weakens the longer you take to send a C&D. After a due time, when you can show that all parties were aware of what was happening, you can argue, and has been argue that you have a gratis to continue your infringing work. If I didnt have ~2hrs to be on line, I would go dig for citation, for this.Even if that's true, for copyright at least, there's no general precedent. Letting one person do it does not weaken your case against anyone else. For trademark, letting someone else use does.
Also, your cease and desist will still stand, it's just that you'll have a hard time suing them for previous use.
Post by: Neonivek on May 12, 2013, 03:02:21 am
As long as you take legal action ANY legal action.
Post by: Sensei on May 12, 2013, 03:43:27 am
There's really no case in favor of the crappy pony coins.
Post by: Ameablable on May 29, 2013, 12:39:47 pm
well now you can! (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/797562600/help-the-texas-spartan-get-a-suit?ref=recently_launched)
Post by: Draco18s on May 29, 2013, 02:22:44 pm
have you ever wanted to help a man in Texas create a Mjolnir Spartan suit from Halo??
well now you can! (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/797562600/help-the-texas-spartan-get-a-suit?ref=recently_launched)
SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONE--
Wait a sec. WTF?
Post by: Ameablable on May 29, 2013, 02:23:38 pm
exactly my reaction!have you ever wanted to help a man in Texas create a Mjolnir Spartan suit from Halo??
well now you can! (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/797562600/help-the-texas-spartan-get-a-suit?ref=recently_launched)
SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONE--
Wait a sec. WTF?
Post by: kilakan on May 29, 2013, 08:03:16 pm
Post by: Ameablable on May 29, 2013, 08:19:14 pm
his description of himself. I cant tell if this is a joke or for reals.
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 29, 2013, 08:26:04 pm
have you ever wanted to help a man in Texas create a Mjolnir Spartan suit from Halo??I'm really disappointed that this wasn't the state of Texas starting a kickstarter to kidnap Australian children and begin a new agoge where they create next level super soldiers.
well now you can! (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/797562600/help-the-texas-spartan-get-a-suit?ref=recently_launched)
Post by: Ameablable on May 29, 2013, 08:27:58 pm
why Australian? why not just all children?have you ever wanted to help a man in Texas create a Mjolnir Spartan suit from Halo??I'm really disappointed that this wasn't the state of Texas starting a kickstarter to kidnap Australian children and begin a new agoge where they create next level super soldiers.
well now you can! (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/797562600/help-the-texas-spartan-get-a-suit?ref=recently_launched)
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 29, 2013, 08:36:43 pm
Wait! This should go in the Kickstart Gone Right threa- Nope.exactly my reaction!have you ever wanted to help a man in Texas create a Mjolnir Spartan suit from Halo??
well now you can! (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/797562600/help-the-texas-spartan-get-a-suit?ref=recently_launched)
SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONE--
Wait a sec. WTF?
Post by: tryrar on May 30, 2013, 02:34:04 am
........what.
Post by: Leafsnail on May 30, 2013, 06:36:08 am
I wonder who pledged two dollars, and why they did that.I find it shameful that no-one else is prepared to part with even pocket change in order to help save the universe. Truly Kickstarter has Gone Wrong.
Post by: Loud Whispers on May 30, 2013, 09:38:17 am
why Australian? why not just all children?The Spartans are sourced from space Australia
Post by: Ameablable on May 30, 2013, 10:04:31 am
ahwhy Australian? why not just all children?The Spartans are sourced from space Australia
Post by: Absolute Niro on May 30, 2013, 10:07:40 am
Post by: Ameablable on May 30, 2013, 10:13:58 am
Post by: PanH on May 30, 2013, 10:20:17 am
Post by: Ameablable on May 30, 2013, 10:42:33 am
I'm pretty sure he would have more sucess he if was just trying to raise funds to build a spartan suit.you'd need a bit more then 3,000 dollars though
Post by: olemars on May 30, 2013, 11:15:31 am
Post by: Zangi on May 30, 2013, 11:19:43 am
Some parents may pay to have their children 'schooled' as Spartans.ahwhy Australian? why not just all children?The Spartans are sourced from space Australia
Post by: miauw62 on May 30, 2013, 02:10:20 pm
He kinda reminds me of the rather sad dudes in this documentary. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zxCLbPncGk)Reminds me of that movie, Kickass.
Post by: Ameablable on May 30, 2013, 02:22:44 pm
they are making a kickass 2 eh?He kinda reminds me of the rather sad dudes in this documentary. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zxCLbPncGk)Reminds me of that movie, Kickass.
i was sceptical at first cause i thought it shouldnt be done but it actually looks pretty good.
Post by: tryrar on June 01, 2013, 08:49:58 pm
Someone decided to take one of the most expensive styles of beef in the world...and make Jerky out of it (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kobered/kobe-red-100-japanese-beer-fed-kobe-beef-jerky?ref=discover_pop)
Post by: Draco18s on June 01, 2013, 09:56:19 pm
I was debating whether or not this goes her or the kickstarter goes right thread, but I decided here was appropriate.
Someone decided to take one of the most expensive styles of beef in the world...and make Jerky out of it (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kobered/kobe-red-100-japanese-beer-fed-kobe-beef-jerky?ref=discover_pop)
(http://img.mu.cdn.li/Ao/xqefEH.jpg)
Post by: tryrar on June 02, 2013, 01:04:25 am
Excuse me, quick google search yields prices of $60 USD for a puond of Kobe beef. Jesus Christ!
Post by: Blargityblarg on June 02, 2013, 01:09:12 am
I mean, don't get me wrong, that jerky sounds delicious, but come on. You're taking KOBE BEEF and turning it into jerky you dumbass. That's gotta be what, 20 dollars a pound?
Excuse me, quick google search yields prices of $60 USD for a puond of Kobe beef. Jesus Christ!
He's using offcuts and such, which are apparently vastly, vastly cheaper.
Post by: Skyrunner on June 02, 2013, 01:14:39 am
Old Man in the comments bring up some valid points despite being viciously attacked by everyone else. Also, if it really is that tasty I suppose it doesn't matter much.
Post by: Tellemurius on June 02, 2013, 03:11:14 am
Post by: Neonivek on June 02, 2013, 03:25:54 am
Kobe beef? thats the stupidest thing ever, its too well marbled to be jerky the fat content won't allow it YOU FAKES.
Here is kind of the thing... Price =/= taste as far as foods are concerned (I want to punch a Chef anytime they call something "peasant food")
So who ever said that it made good jerky? Also I've had Jerky with fat in it... it tastes bad.
Post by: Tellemurius on June 02, 2013, 03:29:39 am
dude im having a culinary raeg on this, its a fricking waste of good meat thats going to be ruined by the jerky process. Im calling all red flags on this.Kobe beef? thats the stupidest thing ever, its too well marbled to be jerky the fat content won't allow it YOU FAKES.
Here is kind of the thing... Price =/= taste as far as foods are concerned (I want to punch a Chef anytime they call something "peasant food")
So who ever said that it made good jerky? Also I've had Jerky with fat in it... it tastes bad.
Post by: Skyrunner on June 02, 2013, 03:59:27 am
Like my quote above, I doubt it's actually Koba beef at all. o.Odude im having a culinary raeg on this, its a fricking waste of good meat thats going to be ruined by the jerky process. Im calling all red flags on this.Kobe beef? thats the stupidest thing ever, its too well marbled to be jerky the fat content won't allow it YOU FAKES.
Here is kind of the thing... Price =/= taste as far as foods are concerned (I want to punch a Chef anytime they call something "peasant food")
So who ever said that it made good jerky? Also I've had Jerky with fat in it... it tastes bad.
Post by: UltraValican on June 04, 2013, 05:07:27 pm
Is anyone here familiar with Monster Girl Quest/Monmus Quest/Monster Girl Assault?
Its an erogue(with a JRPG minigame thats actual pretty engaging, if not a it luck based at times) based off the "monster girl encyclopedia". In short, its a bunch of fantasy monsters redrawn as cute anime girls that either rape men for sustenance, eat and rape men for sustenance, rape then eat men for sustenance, or just rape and eat men for shits and giggles. The game itself follows the escapades of Luka a "totally 18-21" year old man who wants to bring peace between humans and monsters in a world where the dominate religion basically forbids peaceful interactions with monsters. Despite the incredibly corny premise, and nightmare fuel sex scenes (the ones that can't be avoided, I.E about 7 "cannon" scenes are pretty tame.) when you lose, there's a surprisingly good story. That being said, there's a good chance you'll be scarred for life if you lose to some of the bosses*cough*Beezlebub*cough*. The game has 3 parts(2 of which are translated, part 3 was basically just released.
The story may be very good, but I can't stress enough how SICKENING some of losing scenes are.
Some fates that can befall our protagonist
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
MID-EDIT
Apparently HERO is going to be a teen friendly retelling, while the primary project appears to be a full blown porn game like the original.
So basically he's trying to make a quick buck by making a porn game based of another porn game and sell it. He's also going to be snipping out the porn out of one version, retitling and selling it to younger people. Honestly any teenage who knows about the game is probably smart enough to obtain the pornographic version or the original.
Post by: Tellemurius on June 04, 2013, 05:16:01 pm
Honestly the story itself sucks and Luka is like a wimp chump that someone decided to brainwash and this could turn that image around. His engine designs aren't horrible though.
Post by: UltraValican on June 04, 2013, 05:25:05 pm
Actually talk to this guy about this project. The KS project is funding his 3D dungeon rpg based on the Monster Girl Quest Universe, THIS ONE DOES NOT HAVE PORN. KS regulates adult content and he has made it well stated this version will not have any of it. He will make a adult version once this one has been release and it will be a free DLC for the buyers.That clears up alot.
Honestly the story itself sucks and Luka is like a wimp chump that someone decided to brainwash and this could turn that image around. His engine designs aren't horrible though.
Post by: Parsely on June 04, 2013, 10:04:38 pm
I hated that movie. :/He kinda reminds me of the rather sad dudes in this documentary. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zxCLbPncGk)Reminds me of that movie, Kickass.
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 05, 2013, 08:25:48 pm
You are not alone. It was wretched.I hated that movie. :/He kinda reminds me of the rather sad dudes in this documentary. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zxCLbPncGk)Reminds me of that movie, Kickass.
Post by: nenjin on July 02, 2013, 10:36:12 pm
Spoiler: Facepalm (click to show/hide)
Aaaannnddd it begins.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 03, 2013, 01:40:35 am
Post by: Bdthemag on July 03, 2013, 01:43:46 am
That's a lot of money, and the fact that he went over-budget for this with a POINT AND CLICK ADVENTURE GAME shows that he either is spending this poorly, or just wants more money.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on July 03, 2013, 01:52:19 am
Post by: MrWiggles on July 03, 2013, 01:57:47 am
Tim Schafer got 3.3 MILLION DOLLARS FOR HIS ADVENTURE GAME. 3.3 MILLION DOLLARS.
That's a lot of money, and the fact that he went over-budget for this with a POINT AND CLICK ADVENTURE GAME shows that he either is spending this poorly, or just wants more money.
He raised 3.3m but he doesnt have 3.3 for the game. There the kickstarter fee, the cost for the rewards and taxes. He still got more then what he was originally asking for, but as far as video game budget goes, hes gotta take a mad piss and can barely afford the pot to do it in.
FYI, the original kickstarter goal was 400 000. They were funded 8 times over.And?
He asked for 400k for a game with X feature set.
He got wai moar money then that, and expanded that feature list.
So the original starting amount, is arguably a none-issue, as he not making that 400k game anymore. Hes attempting to make this much more expanded 3.3m game.
Post by: Zangi on July 03, 2013, 09:44:32 am
Selling it off early with free updates/expansions is a good alternative to asking for more money at least. So the solution to the problem ain't bad at all.
Well, I didn't back this anyways, cause not as interested in adventure games.
Post by: nenjin on July 03, 2013, 10:00:31 am
Tim Schafer got 3.3 MILLION DOLLARS FOR HIS ADVENTURE GAME. 3.3 MILLION DOLLARS.
That's a lot of money, and the fact that he went over-budget for this with a POINT AND CLICK ADVENTURE GAME shows that he either is spending this poorly, or just wants more money.
He raised 3.3m but he doesnt have 3.3 for the game. There the kickstarter fee, the cost for the rewards and taxes. He still got more then what he was originally asking for, but as far as video game budget goes, hes gotta take a mad piss and can barely afford the pot to do it in.FYI, the original kickstarter goal was 400 000. They were funded 8 times over.And?
He asked for 400k for a game with X feature set.
He got wai moar money then that, and expanded that feature list.
So the original starting amount, is arguably a none-issue, as he not making that 400k game anymore. Hes attempting to make this much more expanded 3.3m game.
Which doesn't cost 3.3 million. By his own numbers, roughly 6 million.
If the head of a studio can't budget himself for 3.3 million, and KNOWINGLY GOES OVER, and then asks for more money, I'd call that a problem.
Seriously, you overfund 8x, go insane on features, don't exercise any of the restraint knowing you have a limited budget....and it's all hunky dorey because you're going to release your game in stages through a paid alpha?
This is basically what I've been waiting for since the first $1 million kickstarter. Guys get way more funding than they asked for, throw caution to the wind, expand their teams, start dreaming of the $20 million dollar game they would have made with publisher monies, and then end up needing far more money than they earned. And they plow ahead because they know the internet is just going to throw more money at them.
It's about accountability in my mind. It's the same routine with publishers, just half the money.
"So how are things going Tim?"
"Well, we're about 2 years off schedule. We're going to need another cash infusion."
"*Sigh* for how much?"
"Not sure. How much you got?"
Except now it's done with smiles and snark (Thanks for putting into the "tip jar?" Nice, ass.)
Basically, it's undercutting the premise that Kickstarter will actually get you anything when it comes to projects like this, because they dream bigger than their funding allows. Why would I back a Kickstarter knowing the game will have to end up on Early Access to have a prayer of making release?
And Tim even basically said "without more money, I'd have to scrap the game I sold you guys on Kickstarter." I mean, he can't even put up Part 1 of his game on $3.3 million. Think about that, in comparison to alllll the other projects that have released their Kickstarter titles.
How is that not a problem? How does terrible business management like that not send up red flags? Oh right. He's Tim Schafer. The rules don't apply to him. Yet people will excoriate an unknown developer for asking for $10,000 more than they personally think the project is worth.
Post by: Sergius on July 03, 2013, 10:43:10 am
Post by: nenjin on July 03, 2013, 10:47:03 am
Post by: Draco18s on July 03, 2013, 10:47:57 am
I backed it because I thought the courage to attempt a style of game that hasn't been seen outside the Flash (non-existent budget, small/one-man team, indie, short, generally poor) gaming scene was worth getting behind.
I loved games like Myst, Dig, King's Quest (even if I was ultimately terrible at them). Heck, I went out and bought The Longest Journey not that long ago and put in a near-continuous 17 hours watching every, every cut scene. Despite the low resolution graphics, the voice acting was superb, the story engaging, the scenery amazing, and the characters memorable. I figured out one reveal ages before it happened, but I also suspected that it was intended to be obvious to the players...as a distraction from the real twist.
I backed Doublefine on the expectation that at some point, eventually, I'll have a game to play that will be different. NOT on the expectation that it would be perfect, complete, or on time.
Hell, I'm barely even reading the updates they put out, I'm not on the forums, and I'm only tangentially engaged in what's going on. I would like to be surprised at the result rather than disappointed.
Ok, yeah, they overscoped and are now going to be overbudget, but they're doing the right thing with what they have, what they want, and what they know that we--as the fans--would want. And what we want is to not have 25% of a game. They found a happy medium whereby they put out what they can, garner more sales, and use those sales to fund further production. It's no different than expanded content DLC...that comes free at a later date.
Kickstarter got the project off the ground and pushed initial funding.
Kickstarter did exactly what it was designed to do.
This is not a failure.
Post by: nenjin on July 03, 2013, 10:53:02 am
Quote
I backed it because I thought the courage to attempt a style of game that hasn't been seen outside Flash (non-existent budget, small/one-man team, indie, short, generally poor) gaming scene was worth getting behind.
You mean like Shadowgate, another Point 'n click adventure game on Kickstarter being made by professional developers, that is on track at a fraction of Schafer's budget? How about Hero-U, another p 'n click game that also doesn't require millions to get made?
Quote
And what we want is to not have 25% of a game. They found a happy medium whereby they put out what they can, garner more sales, and use those sales to fund further production. It's no different than expanded content DLC...that comes free at a later date.
It's not free though. You may not have paid extra but to reach the game that was promised on Kickstarter, someone else has to foot the bill for it, for it to become a reality. And it's not "fund further production." It's "finish the game we promised." This isn't additional funding, it's necessary funding.
Quote
Kickstarter got the project off the ground and pushed initial funding.
Kickstarter did exactly what it was designed to do.
This is not a failure.
Really? I didn't think the point of Kickstarter was to back so people could have a chance to find find even more funding. I thought the point of Kickstarter was you back to get a product, and you get it, without needing even more 3rd party funding, paid alphas and more hoops.
If a product that succeeded on Kickstarter can't succeed just on Kickstarter, I'd call that a failure. Maybe not of Kickstarter. But definitely of the people that put their project on there.
But I guess that doesn't really matter to backers as long as the thing they paid for happens, at some point, by some means. Never mind the message this sends to developers, or the culture it's creating on Kickstarter. That it's ok to make a king's ransom and still ask for more money, since there's no one watching the hen house.
Post by: Sergius on July 03, 2013, 10:53:51 am
The funniest thing, there are already people on this thread condemning projects for raising 10x times the asked amount but not delivering 10x the product (basically pocketing the rest as profit).
Now, we have someone who RAGES because a project got more money and decided to spend it all, and maybe got a little too excited and overspent.
Even tho they have been very transparent, and declared the reason they're not asking for more Kickstarter money OR going with a traditional publisher is because of the promise they made when starting the project, and came with a viable alternative instead.
Post by: nenjin on July 03, 2013, 10:56:50 am
Draco, I agree 100% and couldn't have said it better.
The funniest thing, there are already people on this thread condemning projects for raising 10x times the asked amount but not delivering 10x the product (basically pocketing the rest as profit).
Now, we have someone who RAGES because a project got more money and decided to spend it all, and maybe got a little too excited and overspent.
Even tho they have been very transparent, and declared the reason they're not asking for more Kickstarter money OR going with a traditional publisher is because of the promise they made when starting the project, and came with a viable alternative instead.
Can you point me to their financial statements, or the financials of other Kickstarters, to prove this point? No, you can't. No one can, and that's the freaking point. Everything has to be taken on faith, or at the very least, the finished product. So pardon me if I don't just take someone word that they spent $3.3 million on purely game things.
And seriously. More than $3 million for a point and click adventure game? I eagerly await the final product so I can see exactly what that kind of money buys.
Post by: Sergius on July 03, 2013, 10:58:08 am
Go ahead by all means. While you're at it, audit McDonalds to prove that that extra $0.50 you paid really went to purchase extra bacon.
Post by: nenjin on July 03, 2013, 11:02:21 am
Quote
Prove what? Do you want to audit them?
Frankly, I'd love an audit of every Kickstarter I back. And I'd love audits of every Kickstarter than exceeds funding by 100%. A way cut through all the smiley, warm fuzzy BS that developers can say now that they're not beholden to a contract.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on July 03, 2013, 11:05:36 am
Nice, I paid for a 400k game and I'm getting a $6 million game.Or the project dies in alpha due to internal inefficiencies and lack of sales. Same thing, and a known risk of kickstarting.
But yeah, don't expect a 6 million dollar game. I mean, it might have cost that much to develop, but it won't be equivalent to a succesfull project that started out with a 6 million price tag. Upscaling budgets is very inefficient.
Post by: nenjin on July 03, 2013, 11:09:06 am
They knew their schedule was tight. They did what was necessary to meet their commitments as stated by Kickstarter. They were realistic, responsible and completely transparent about why these things had to be cut. They didn't ask for money, pre-alpha fund the game or any of that jazz. They're not running a black box of millions of dollars of cost and asking for more faith.
That's project and expectation management I can respect. Not "Gee I just can't help myself, sorry! Teehee!"
Post by: Draco18s on July 03, 2013, 11:24:29 am
QuoteI backed it because I thought the courage to attempt a style of game that hasn't been seen outside Flash (non-existent budget, small/one-man team, indie, short, generally poor) gaming scene was worth getting behind.
You mean like Shadowgate, another Point 'n click adventure game on Kickstarter being made by professional developers, that is on track at a fraction of Schafer's budget? How about Hero-U, another p 'n click game that also doesn't require millions to get made?
Shadowgate: didn't hear about it, looking it up now
Hero-U: backed it. ;)
Quote
QuoteAnd what we want is to not have 25% of a game. They found a happy medium whereby they put out what they can, garner more sales, and use those sales to fund further production. It's no different than expanded content DLC...that comes free at a later date.
It's not free though. You may not have paid extra but to reach the game that was promised on Kickstarter, someone else has to foot the bill for it, for it to become a reality. And it's not "fund further production." It's "finish the game we promised." This isn't additional funding, it's necessary funding.
"Borrowing money from the future" is what my backing kickstart is. I pay now, get something later. Except there's also 90,000 other people doing the same thing: someone else is paying and I'm getting the product.
"Doing pre-release sales" is the same thing. Someone else pays now, gets something later. Again, 90,000 other people are doing the same thing: they pay, I get stuff.
Quote
QuoteKickstarter got the project off the ground and pushed initial funding.
Kickstarter did exactly what it was designed to do.
This is not a failure.
Really? I didn't think the point of Kickstarter was to back so people could have a chance to find find even more funding. I thought the point of Kickstarter was you back to get a product, and you get it, without needing even more 3rd party funding, paid alphas and more hoops.
And how has Doublefine failed that? They got an initial infusion of cash, I get stuff at "some point in the future," where has the design failed? Steam Early Access is just an extension of the Slacker Backer system.
Quote
If a product that succeeded on Kickstarter can't succeed just on Kickstarter, I'd call that a failure. Maybe not of Kickstarter. But definitely of the people that put their project on there.
Then all Kickstarters are failures.
My project had to bring in money from the six of us making the project (I think in terms of us paying ourselves for our time and expenses has come out at net 0, if not negative. We had to hire a lawyer and an accounting firm in order to make sure we weren't going to shoot ourselves in the foot.
The lawyer? $250 flat. Not per hour. Flat. He was working practically pro-bono, based on how much time he actually spent and how much we paid him.
The accountaints? Free. They actually, legitimately, charged us nothing.
Kickstarter didn't do that. They did. They decided to be awesome and do work for us out of their own pocket.
Quote
But I guess that doesn't really matter to backers as long as the thing they paid for happens, at some point, by some means. Never mind the message this sends to developers, or the culture it's creating on Kickstarter. That it's ok to make a king's ransom and still ask for more money, since there's no one watching the hen house.
Does anyone remember Penny Arcade's Kickstarter? The one where they said up front "we're going to run this Kickstarter every year?" Because the entire "project" was "fund the site for 365 days" so they were going to come back and ask for more repeatedly?
Did we jump all over that in the same way we're jumping on Doublefine?
Post by: Fniff on July 03, 2013, 11:30:02 am
Post by: Draco18s on July 03, 2013, 11:34:16 am
I think so, actually...
I think we actually just harped on the fact that it wasn't a "project."
Post by: nenjin on July 03, 2013, 11:35:31 am
Quote
Did we jump all over that in the same way we're jumping on Doublefine?
It struck me as not good, FWIW.
Quote
Then all Kickstarters are failures.
Did you have to run a second on IndieGoGo to pay your lawyer? Charge strangers for access to your unfinished product? Seek 3rd party funding?
That's what I'm talking about.
Post by: Zangi on July 03, 2013, 11:37:07 am
Personally, I don't care, its the same thing as random people donating via paypal, instead these random people are donating via kickstarter. I have no problems with that. And hey, they gave away stuff to go with it didn't they?
Post by: Draco18s on July 03, 2013, 11:45:12 am
Did you have to run a second on IndieGoGo to pay your lawyer? Charge strangers for access to your unfinished product? Seek 3rd party funding?
So the accountants doing pro-bono work doesn't count as them paying us to pay them?
Personally, I don't care, its the same thing as random people donating via paypal, instead these random people are donating via kickstarter. I have no problems with that. And hey, they gave away stuff to go with it didn't they?
This.
Post by: nenjin on July 03, 2013, 11:56:37 am
Did you have to run a second on IndieGoGo to pay your lawyer? Charge strangers for access to your unfinished product? Seek 3rd party funding?
So the accountants doing pro-bono work doesn't count as them paying us to pay them?
It's not the same as going outside of Kickstarter for more money to meet your Kickstarter obligations.
Post by: Sergius on July 03, 2013, 11:59:56 am
Post by: nenjin on July 03, 2013, 12:00:45 pm
The Privateer or Wing Commander or whatsitsface project ran a Kickstarter concurrently with other donation sites, plus a straight donation link right on their webpage.
Star Citizen?
Post by: Sergius on July 03, 2013, 12:04:37 pm
EDIT: Relevant: http://www.kickstarter.com/help/school
Quote
Setting Your Goal
Kickstarter operates on an all-or-nothing funding model where projects must be fully funded or no money changes hands. Projects must set a funding goal and a length of time to reach it. There’s no magic formula to determining the right goal or duration. Every project is different, but there are a few things to keep in mind.
Researching your budget
How much money do you need? Are you raising the full budget or a portion of it? Have you factored in the cost of producing rewards and delivering them to backers? Avoid later headaches by doing your research, and be as transparent as you can. Backers will appreciate it.
Considering your networks
Kickstarter is not a magical source of money. Funding comes from a variety of sources — your audience, your friends and family, your broader social networks, and, if your project does well, strangers from around the web. It’s up to you to build that momentum for your project.
Post by: nenjin on July 03, 2013, 01:04:25 pm
Quote
Kickstarter is not a magical source of money. Funding comes from a variety of sources — your audience, your friends and family, your broader social networks, and, if your project does well, strangers from around the web. It’s up to you to build that momentum for your project.
That's saying "Simply putting your project up on Kickstarter won't get you money. You have to build hype for it yourselves, among [those sources]." It is not a disclaimer that you will be getting money from other, non-Kickstarter sources regardless of how well your project is funded.
As for Star Citizen, they started doing that almost concurrently with the Kickstarter and have since moved their whole operation off of Kickstarter and done a lot of work to create their own system. At least what was on the table was clear from the start there.
Post by: Sergius on July 03, 2013, 01:05:17 pm
Post by: nenjin on July 03, 2013, 01:07:47 pm
Frowny face indeed.
Post by: Sergius on July 03, 2013, 01:08:58 pm
Yes, one portion of the statement that implies you may not be seeking full funding through Kickstarter completely proves that all projects are expected to get funding outside of Kickstarter at some point.
Frowny face indeed.
Well, obviously you're just splitting hairs at this point so I'm done here.
Post by: Draco18s on July 03, 2013, 01:13:42 pm
Quotebe as transparent as you can. Backers will appreciate it.
I think that sums things up nicely.
Anyone have any complaints about Doublefine not being transparent enough?
Post by: nenjin on July 03, 2013, 01:20:07 pm
They've at least talked about their situation, which is better than nothing. So yes, they've been "transparent." Although it's easy to say what you need to, how you need to, when you don't actually have to back that up with data.
Post by: Zangi on July 04, 2013, 10:07:31 pm
Seems enlightening.
Post by: Bdthemag on July 04, 2013, 10:16:04 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on July 04, 2013, 10:20:53 pm
Yes, making games are hard. That doesn't excuse blatant overspending, which Tim Schafer is very much known for. He has a history of going over budget, missing milestones, and becoming too ambitious with his projects.
Then they can't get pissed that that what happen here.
Lots of folks went fuckin crazy over this game because of his name. They paid for the whole package.
Post by: Zangi on July 04, 2013, 10:29:38 pm
Post by: Bdthemag on July 04, 2013, 11:48:59 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on July 05, 2013, 12:08:18 am
It was more emotionally driven then anything, and when you get your Ouya there this banner that thanks you for believing.
But they told you exactly what it was. An android based home console. And, it just turned out that a smart phone OS and smart phone guts, make a shitty console.
Post by: Aklyon on July 05, 2013, 12:12:16 am
Post by: Bdthemag on July 05, 2013, 12:13:44 am
I thought it was tablet* guts?It isn't. The system specifications are more similar to a smartphone than a tablet, but then again the gap between those two aren't particularly large in the first place. I'd rank the Ouya somewhere in between those two.
Post by: freeformschooler on July 05, 2013, 12:15:55 am
Android smartphones are pretty awesome, but maybe not as a TV game console.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 05, 2013, 02:56:17 am
People were told what it was, sure. But despite that, many of the backer's were expecting a console that could run games like Skyrim, Battlefield 3, and DayZ. They were frankly ignorant of technology in general, and the developer's didn't correct them and be honest even though they ran an official poll asking people what they wanted. That's why we're seeing a lot of those backers pissed off now, because they thought they were scammed. The Ouya devs partially acted shady, but I wouldn't say it was a scam. It was simply a bunch of people who knew nothing about consoles, getting themselves too invested into the project to realize their expectations were grossly out of touch with reality.
Yea the Devs and Kickstarter runners did not really bother at all to reign in the idea that this thing will be running modern/next gen console/pc games. Which, is kinda of shady.
But they really did hammer on, how this was going to to TEAR DOWN THE MAN, and stop EVIL PUBLISHERS and all the games would be FREE (except not) and yea, Emulators are awesome (until we stop saying that and stop officially supporting them), and its going to be your Console to do whatever!
And whats really stopping gaming is the barrier to entry, because everyone knows when you collapse the barrier to entry quality eventually goes up. Just look at the newgrounds portal for all the pending games. THey're all awesome. Promise.
---
Also we've never designed any hardware really, so obviously this free us from the evil of industry design and to be truly free! The controller is gonna be the stradivarius of controllers (I shit you know, they said this.) But because this is /your/ console that /you/ believe in, you can use whatever controller you want. Its cool.
----
And the only folks that seem to be excited by the Ouya are the folks that drank the Ouya kool aid. When folks started to get their Ouya, on /r/ouya and started to report problems. It was really strange, they assumed every thing else was wrong, before the ouya.
They checked their TV, their cable box, took it to other tvs, and everything assuming that it couldnt be the ouya being just totally Meh.
Post by: Bdthemag on July 05, 2013, 03:00:10 am
Oh, huh. I also thought Ouya was some super beefed up Android. It does make more sense after seeing that thread where someone showed how tiny it was.It claimed it'd have "optimized graphics", and it runs a lot of games fine (Assuming that the devs who ported a game intended for a phone to a big-screen experience well, many ports are rather poorly done) but if you throw in any kind of semi-complex 3D graphics the console tends to drop down below 30 FPS frequently.
Android smartphones are pretty awesome, but maybe not as a TV game console.
I could go on a gigantic rant about the OUYA like I usually do, but all you need to know is that the system specifications are pretty much the same as most mid to high end smartphones.
Post by: Draco18s on July 05, 2013, 08:41:51 am
Yes, making games are hard. That doesn't excuse blatant overspending, which Tim Schafer is very much known for. He has a history of going over budget, missing milestones, and becoming too ambitious with his projects.
Then they can't get pissed that that what happen here.
Quite.
I mean, I had no knowledge of how Schafer ran projects in the past, but I do know about software development, so I'm neither surprised nor insulted.
(I have to build a clone of Google Hangouts by next Thrusday. I had this past Wednesday for a planning meeting and then I'm out of town for the weekend, leaving two days of development time. Yeah.)
Post by: Yannanth on July 09, 2013, 01:22:45 pm
Post by: miauw62 on July 09, 2013, 01:24:12 pm
Post by: Tellemurius on July 09, 2013, 01:56:55 pm
Post by: Draco18s on July 09, 2013, 01:58:31 pm
umm.... who in their right mind would decide to port to everything?
People who don't realize that "HTML5" is not, in fact, compatible on everything.
Post by: Dutchling on July 09, 2013, 02:01:51 pm
Post by: MarcAFK on July 10, 2013, 01:27:24 am
Post by: Bdthemag on July 10, 2013, 03:15:43 am
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 10, 2013, 11:30:02 am
Spoiler: there are some really rad designs here (click to show/hide)
Post by: Dutchling on July 10, 2013, 11:35:39 am
My respect for penguin was dropping quite fast.
Post by: BunnyBob77 on July 10, 2013, 11:38:57 am
Post by: nenjin on July 10, 2013, 01:53:31 pm
Post by: PanH on July 10, 2013, 02:17:12 pm
Post by: Neonivek on July 10, 2013, 02:18:50 pm
Why do people buy these super unoriginal cruddy tshirts for a LOT more then simply buying a custom one would cost?
Post by: Zangi on July 10, 2013, 02:37:17 pm
You know... there are places where you can make your own Tshirts.Don't know any better... Heck, I didn't even know. (Probably cause I didn't care to.)
Why do people buy these super unoriginal cruddy tshirts for a LOT more then simply buying a custom one would cost?
Post by: nenjin on July 10, 2013, 03:06:39 pm
Post by: Sigulbard on July 12, 2013, 09:11:41 am
Otakuware: T-Shirts for people who love Snark (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/933331750/otakuware-t-shirts-for-people-who-love-snark)
Is the one on the left a man or...?
Post by: Draco18s on July 12, 2013, 09:14:08 am
Because hey, who DOESN'T want to overpay for a bad joke written in comic sans on a t-shirt?
COMIC SANS! (http://forums.dumpshock.com/style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
Post by: MrWiggles on July 16, 2013, 04:15:47 pm
Post by: Neonivek on July 16, 2013, 04:16:52 pm
http://offbeatr.com/ Porn Crowd Sourcing.
What? So porn isn't allowed to have its own kickstarter systems now? Is that what you are saying?
Joke aside, I am not sure why this is "going wrong" unless Kickstarter actually does let you kickstart porn.
Post by: Scelly9 on July 16, 2013, 04:24:30 pm
http://offbeatr.com/ Porn Crowd Sourcing.That's actually not a bad idea. Gauge the interest before you invest in an industry that is slowly dying.
Post by: Tellemurius on July 16, 2013, 04:43:06 pm
Kickstarter has stated they will not host any adult-sexual projects on their site.http://offbeatr.com/ Porn Crowd Sourcing.
What? So porn isn't allowed to have its own kickstarter systems now? Is that what you are saying?
Joke aside, I am not sure why this is "going wrong" unless Kickstarter actually does let you kickstart porn.
Post by: Draco18s on July 16, 2013, 04:54:48 pm
http://offbeatr.com/ Porn Crowd Sourcing.
Not inherently bad.
There was (is?) one project on there (can't find it now) that was a comic that described itself as "adult art done the right way" or similar. Like it was trying to be high brow and anatomically accurate, etc. etc.
And it wasn't.
It was very clearly watermelon sized tits blasting through the fourth wall and I was like, "Really?"
Post by: nenjin on July 16, 2013, 06:42:58 pm
Post by: Neonivek on July 16, 2013, 06:52:33 pm
Candidate for the OOC Quote thread, right there. All I can picture is a pair of huge breasts smashing through a brickwall, Koolaid Guy-style.
Interestingly enough I watched an anime where a woman's special talent was "Having the most impressive pair of breasts in the world" and one scene involved her beating up a bunch of bandits using her breasts.
This wasn't an eichi or hentai anime either. In fact it is Shonen.
Post by: Leafsnail on July 16, 2013, 06:54:43 pm
Post by: Neonivek on July 16, 2013, 07:10:35 pm
I dunno why you were expecting a pop-up book to be highbrow.
It could be to be truthful. (A pop up book... not the porn part)
Heck I am honestly astonished that there aren't many adult picture books.
Post by: Draco18s on July 16, 2013, 07:18:09 pm
I dunno why you were expecting a pop-up book to be highbrow.
I meant compared to the usual fare. If I could find that project again you'd understand what I meant.
Post by: Cthulhu on July 16, 2013, 08:29:52 pm
Post by: Draco18s on July 16, 2013, 08:41:17 pm
I hate those fucking shirts so much. If I had a son, and he walked in wearing a shirt with "otaku mafia" on it, I would stop loving him.
Get back at them with subliminal conditioning (http://xkcd.com/573/).
Post by: kaijyuu on July 16, 2013, 09:04:09 pm
I hate those fucking shirts so much. If I had a son, and he walked in wearing a shirt with "otaku mafia" on it, I would stop loving him.If I was your kid, I'd wear said shirt just to goad you into doing that and showing how much of a fool you are :P
Post by: Loud Whispers on July 16, 2013, 10:57:09 pm
It's not wise to poke fools with sticks. They usually carry bigger sticks.I hate those fucking shirts so much. If I had a son, and he walked in wearing a shirt with "otaku mafia" on it, I would stop loving him.If I was your kid, I'd wear said shirt just to goad you into doing that and showing how much of a fool you are :P
Post by: Cthulhu on July 17, 2013, 12:38:05 am
I hate those fucking shirts so much. If I had a son, and he walked in wearing a shirt with "otaku mafia" on it, I would stop loving him.If I was your kid, I'd wear said shirt just to goad you into doing that and showing how much of a fool you are :P
How would that show how much of a fool I am?
Post by: Sensei on July 17, 2013, 03:10:59 am
Post by: Mech#4 on July 17, 2013, 03:22:53 am
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 17, 2013, 03:50:46 am
I hate those fucking shirts so much. If I had a son, and he walked in wearing a shirt with "otaku mafia" on it, I would stop loving him.
If I was your kid, I'd wear said shirt just to goad you into doing that and showing how much of a baka you are :P
kotei shi
Post by: Leafsnail on July 17, 2013, 05:12:08 am
How would that show how much of a fool I am?Because you failed to prevent your child from becoming a member of the Otaku Mafia.
Post by: Blargityblarg on July 17, 2013, 07:12:32 am
How would that show how much of a fool I am?Because you failed to prevent your child from becoming a member of the Otaku Mafia.
Yeah, those guys play for keeps.
And for Pokemon cards.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 17, 2013, 07:13:50 am
Mostly Pokemon cards.How would that show how much of a fool I am?Because you failed to prevent your child from becoming a member of the Otaku Mafia.
Yeah, those guys play for keeps.
And for Pokemon cards.
Post by: Cthulhu on July 17, 2013, 08:07:16 am
How would that show how much of a fool I am?Because you failed to prevent your child from becoming a member of the Otaku Mafia.
I guess I should've talked to him about anime. When I was growing up, your peers pretty quickly taught you what interests were and weren't okay to share with people. Now we've got the reddits and the tumbles and you can find unconditional acceptance no matter what ridiculous things you do.
Terrible state of affairs.
Post by: Draco18s on July 17, 2013, 08:27:31 am
Now we've got the reddits and the tumbles and you can find unconditional acceptance no matter what ridiculous things you do.
Terrible state of affairs.
Bur Reddit told me that my furry porn addiction was ok! Everyone does it!
Post by: Furtuka on July 17, 2013, 10:40:26 am
...not sure if sarcastic or not. But if not then... wutHow would that show how much of a fool I am?Because you failed to prevent your child from becoming a member of the Otaku Mafia.
I guess I should've talked to him about anime. When I was growing up, your peers pretty quickly taught you what interests were and weren't okay to share with people. Now we've got the reddits and the tumbles and you can find unconditional acceptance no matter what ridiculous things you do.
Terrible state of affairs.
Post by: nenjin on July 17, 2013, 11:07:59 am
How would that show how much of a fool I am?Because you failed to prevent your child from becoming a member of the Otaku Mafia.
I guess I should've talked to him about anime. When I was growing up, your peers pretty quickly taught you what interests were and weren't okay to share with people. Now we've got the reddits and the tumbles and you can find unconditional acceptance no matter what ridiculous things you do.
Terrible state of affairs.
I lol'd.
Post by: Leafsnail on July 17, 2013, 05:27:28 pm
Firstly, drugs. Be responsible. Learn the risks and how to take them safely, to make sure that you and your friends are not put in unnecessary danger. Never take them in an environment where you feel unsafe.
Secondly, sex. Be careful. You should always use protection, and be ready to deal with the consequences. I cannot insist on chastity before marriage, but it should really be with someone you love and respect.
Finally, and most importantly, anime. Not even once.
Post by: Lectorog on July 24, 2013, 06:31:32 pm
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/forkingpath/the-doom-that-came-to-atlantic-city/posts/548030
One man burns through $100,000+ and decides it's impossible to complete the project. What did that money go to?
Quote
paying to form the company, for the miniature statues, moving back to Portland, getting software licenses and hiring artists to do things like rule book design and art conformingNo-one's really sure. Popular opinion is that everything not accounted for in that quote went to (unemployed) personal living costs, because obviously not all of it was required for the above.
He's promised to return all of their money when he can.
Here's the other thing: The Kickstarter project was for the board game, not starting a company.
Many people have already contacted offices responsible for handling fraud.
I'm interested to see how this turns out.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 24, 2013, 08:15:50 pm
This is pretty much the worst that Kickstarter can go wrong.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/forkingpath/the-doom-that-came-to-atlantic-city/posts/548030
One man burns through $100,000+ and decides it's impossible to complete the project. What did that money go to?Quotepaying to form the company, for the miniature statues, moving back to Portland, getting software licenses and hiring artists to do things like rule book design and art conformingNo-one's really sure. Popular opinion is that everything not accounted for in that quote went to (unemployed) personal living costs, because obviously not all of it was required for the above.
He's promised to return all of their money when he can.
Here's the other thing: The Kickstarter project was for the board game, not starting a company.
Many people have already contacted offices responsible for handling fraud.
I'm interested to see how this turns out.
It'd be irresponsible to try and sell a commercial product without forming a company. Especially since he was hiring freelancers to work on the product.
Post by: Fniff on July 24, 2013, 08:28:16 pm
Post by: Skyrunner on July 24, 2013, 09:32:39 pm
Post by: Fniff on July 24, 2013, 10:49:52 pm
Post by: olemars on July 25, 2013, 04:20:42 am
This is pretty much the worst that Kickstarter can go wrong.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/forkingpath/the-doom-that-came-to-atlantic-city/posts/548030
One man burns through $100,000+ and decides it's impossible to complete the project. What did that money go to?Quotepaying to form the company, for the miniature statues, moving back to Portland, getting software licenses and hiring artists to do things like rule book design and art conformingNo-one's really sure. Popular opinion is that everything not accounted for in that quote went to (unemployed) personal living costs, because obviously not all of it was required for the above.
He's promised to return all of their money when he can.
Here's the other thing: The Kickstarter project was for the board game, not starting a company.
Many people have already contacted offices responsible for handling fraud.
I'm interested to see how this turns out.
It'd be irresponsible to try and sell a commercial product without forming a company. Especially since he was hiring freelancers to work on the product.
According to the comments on that update the guy behind the kickstarter (Erik) wasn't honest with the game designers (Keith, Lee) either, so this does look like at best someone in way over his head, at worst intentional deceit. The designers weren't directly affiliated with the kickstarter, they just entered into a contract to have it produced.
Quote from: Keith Baker
Yesterday, Erik Chevalier of the Forking Path announced that he has cancelled the Kickstarter to produce The Doom That Came To Atlantic City, a board game designed by Lee Moyer and Keith Baker, which is to say, me. When Lee and I first heard this news from Erik, it came as a shock. We’ve been working on this game for over a decade. In 2011 we had it ready to go to the printer with Z-Man Games, until a change in ownership dropped it from production. Based on the information we’d been receiving from the Forking Path we believed that the game was in production. It’s a personal and financial blow to both of us, but what concerns Lee and I is that people who believed in our work and put their faith in this Kickstarter have been let down.
First of all, I would like to make one thing crystal clear. Lee Moyer and Keith Baker are not part of the Forking Path. Neither one of us received any of the funds raised by the Kickstarter or presales. I haven’t received any form of payment for this game. Lee and I were not involved in the decisions that brought about the end of this project, and we were misinformed about its progress and the state of the game.
As a designer, I want the ideas I come up with to bring people joy—not frustration, disappointment and anger. Once I sign a contract granting a company the rights to produce one of my games, I am putting my faith in that company and trusting that it will carry out production and delivery in a professional and ethical manner. I’ve worked with Atlas Games, Wizards of the Coast, Steve Jackson Games, Goodman Games, Green Ronin, Pelgrane Press, and many more, and I’ve never been let down until now. Lee and I don’t know exactly how the money was spent, why the backers were misled, what challenges were faced or what drove the decisions that led to the cancellation of the game. Not only did we not make any money from the game, we have actually lost money; as soon as we learned the true state of affairs, we engaged a lawyer to compel The Forking Path to come forward to the backers and to honor its pledge to issue refunds.
With that said, all that really matters to Lee and I is that our idea has led to frustration and anger instead of bringing happiness. We can’t change the past. We can’t produce the game as presented in the Kickstarter on our own. But under the terms of the contract the rights to the art and design are back in our hands, and we can at least share those. Lee and I will be producing a print-and-play version of the game as quickly as possible, and getting that to backers at no cost. You’ll have to use your own cardstock and paper, and we can’t produce the amazing miniatures sculpted by Paul Komoda. But we can share our ideas and our work, and we hope that you will enjoy it.
There is one snag: neither Lee or I have access to the list of backers and their email addresses. We don’t even know who you are, and we have no way to thank you directly. If you backed Doom, please contact me through my website Keith-Baker.com. If you know anyone who backed it, please direct them here.
This is not the end of the road we thought we were on. Neither Lee nor I know how things reached this point, and when I look at the images from the manufacturer that show so clearly that the game could have been made, it breaks my heart. Lee and I will do our best to get you the game in print-and-play form as soon as possible. It’s not what we expected or planned on, but we at least hope that you will finally be able to get some enjoyment from the game we’ve worked on for all these years.
Sincerely,
Keith Baker
Post by: Lectorog on July 25, 2013, 09:40:15 am
He's addressed some of the concerns.
Most likely, he will not be facing any penalties for fraud as long as he continues paying people back, as gradually as it may be.
I'm eagerly awaiting the post-mortem, so see how a project can fail so utterly, especially with 350% funding. Lessons in irresponsibility and unprofessionalism are always useful.
Post by: SealyStar on July 25, 2013, 01:54:51 pm
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/forkingpath/the-doom-that-came-to-atlantic-city/posts/549350Already mentioned above, I believe. But yes, epic failure.
He's addressed some of the concerns.
Most likely, he will not be facing any penalties for fraud as long as he continues paying people back, as gradually as it may be.
I'm eagerly awaiting the post-mortem, so see how a project can fail so utterly, especially with 350% funding. Lessons in irresponsibility and unprofessionalism are always useful.
Post by: Lectorog on July 25, 2013, 02:22:45 pm
Post by: MorleyDev on July 25, 2013, 02:40:03 pm
Finally, and most importantly, anime. Not even once.
Two jokes come to mind:
"I met a girl who was into anime, so I started watching it. It started out small, Dragonball, Bleach, Naruto. But then I found Hellsing and Cowboy Bebop... As time went on I got more and more into it, and before I knew it I had moved onto the hard stuff. I started watching Lucky Star..."
"Son, your mother found a Chobits episode mkv on your laptop. Is it yours? Where did you get it? Who taught you how to download this stuff?" "I learnt it from you! I learnt it from watching you!"
Post by: GlyphGryph on July 25, 2013, 02:40:44 pm
Also, apparently he's done this before, though it's been private investors, and kickstarter has just given him a new platform to run his cons.
Post by: Neonivek on September 10, 2013, 01:32:35 am
So, do you like The Sims? Well how about we make the series all over again with worse graphics, animation, creation power, and to top it all off fundamentally getting many of the parts that makes The Sims good... Wrong.
A Sims game where you do not need to be a social climber? why the Sims 3 did that! It was actually a big feature to no longer need a huge friends list.
Bonus points for this Kickstarter only being discovered by me because someone, unrelated to the project I am assured, actually posted this kickstarter in The Sims 4 forum in the wrong places. Hurray for fanbase inappropriate advertisements! That would be like if I made a Dwarf Fortress Thread in the Gamespot thread about Dragon Ball Z.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1860210667/la-vida-a-game-about-life?ref=category (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1860210667/la-vida-a-game-about-life?ref=category)
Now before I continue I will get serious because what I said is very harsh to what looks like someone's personal project they put on Kickstarter. Since honestly I am speaking mostly out of spite of the advertisers then out of the project. This still deserves to be here, but not the disdain I show towards it.
The ultimate problem is that The Sims is a niche, it is a very small subsubgenre of simulations that already has an ultimate competitor. Yet La Vida is playing things straight and trying to compete with The Sims directly at its own game in a niche where all its competitors either found very mild success or died.
It fails by not trying to be different or better in some capacity (ignoring the "You don't have to be" statements, those well versed in the series know it is no longer true). Also even if it was different the information they put on their kickstarter is very sparse.
I actually kind of feel bad for putting this up here. if people in the thread wish me to (PM me) I will edit this out instantly.
Post by: Putnam on September 10, 2013, 01:38:21 am
Joy.
Quote
La Vida is a life simulation game in which you control a Dude or Dudette
...
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/879/981/38ec5771da449b869ff6437f64c14321_large.png?1378049221)
WOAAAAAAH CUTTING EDGE GRAPHICS
Quote
Activities:
Interact with others and the world around you to develop your Dude or Dudette in whatever way you choose.
So it's the official name.
Ayayay.
Quote
Get involved in longer term goals not just eating and having a bath to up your health bars!
Run for president! Become a nun! the choice is yours!
The choice is limited only by your imagination!
wow they sure did one-up the sims there didn't they
Post by: Scelly9 on September 10, 2013, 01:39:07 am
Post by: Neonivek on September 10, 2013, 01:39:36 am
Quote
you control a Dude or Dudette
Ohh gawd I didn't even notice this... You only control one avatar!?!
Post by: Putnam on September 10, 2013, 01:41:50 am
Also, the £1,500 reward is an in-game cheat item.
The £1,500 reward is an in-game cheat item.
Would you spend £1,500 for access to a cheat item?
Post by: Blargityblarg on September 10, 2013, 01:44:01 am
Not OSX. Not iOS. Apple.
Post by: Neonivek on September 10, 2013, 01:46:29 am
I like that it's available for Apple.
Not OSX. Not iOS. Apple.
Ohh it gets better
They will release it for Apple... TWICE! One of the stretch goals for Apple support.
Oddly enough they had ideas that COULD have worked if they focused exclusively on them.
A Sims type can that focused exclusively on being in the African Outback or the Moon? Why that sounds amazing! Why is that the stretch goal and not "The project"?
Post by: Tellemurius on September 10, 2013, 01:52:39 am
Gonna need some gasoline, some rope, some twine, some gum, some shoe, some bread, and some hammer.
Post by: Neonivek on September 10, 2013, 02:13:32 am
Quote
Its not known how to submit or undergo the approval to Xbox so we will need to research this if we get funded to that point.
We have a brain trust here! Yep put it right on your Stretch goals, I am sure that is the best course of action.
Not finding out HOW to get things on Xbox and THEN putting it on as a stretch goal.
Quote
If any of the guys developing the game gets hit by a bus then I guess this might cause delays!
Uhhh... This is oddly written... I am scared!
Also "Might cause delays"? Can human sacrifices be done by bus?
Post by: NobodyPro on September 10, 2013, 03:27:38 am
Quote
and in this game YOU ... CAN ... DIE!I like how this pitch is well-researched and that the product differs wildly from The Sims.
Post by: Skyrunner on September 10, 2013, 04:13:19 am
Post by: Ringmaster on September 10, 2013, 07:50:00 am
Edit: reddit discussion thread. (http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/1m3bps/another_kickstarter_project_is_dead_im_not/)
Post by: Draco18s on September 10, 2013, 08:51:52 am
I just heard that Cult (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=110893.0)'s dev decided not to continue the project. I figured that news might fit in to this thread.
That is more of a "mistakes are a learning experience: put it on your resume" kind of failure* than a "this is horrible and you should be ashamed of having given him money" kind of failure.
Still, its unfortunate.
*My dad told me, back when I was unemployed, that I could start my own business because it'd look great on my resume. I didn't have to tell anyone that I ran that business into the ground!
Post by: Tellemurius on September 10, 2013, 12:02:20 pm
Post by: nenjin on September 10, 2013, 12:47:41 pm
Post by: freeformschooler on September 10, 2013, 12:53:58 pm
Post by: Mesa on September 10, 2013, 12:56:07 pm
Oh, that's sad, but by the same token, I wasn't terribly attached to that game.
Now Dwarf Fortress being ditched that way, THAT would be heart-breaking.
(also, I wonder how would DF kickstarter look like *cue CataDDA's KS*)
Post by: MrWiggles on September 10, 2013, 08:35:11 pm
...
Oh, that's sad, but by the same token, I wasn't terribly attached to that game.
Now Dwarf Fortress being ditched that way, THAT would be heart-breaking.
(also, I wonder how would DF kickstarter look like *cue CataDDA's KS*)
Dwarf Fortress doens't need it.
Post by: MrWiggles on September 13, 2013, 12:17:04 am
Perpetual Motion Machine with successful funding.
Post by: HFS on September 13, 2013, 12:45:49 am
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/home-quantum-energy-generator
Perpetual Motion Machine with successful funding.
I think the Andromeda Galaxy just heard me smash my head into the wall repeatedly.
Post by: Neonivek on September 13, 2013, 12:46:29 am
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/home-quantum-energy-generator
Perpetual Motion Machine with successful funding.
I think the Andromeda Galaxy just heard me smash my head into the wall repeatedly.
Sound traveling through space?
Post by: HFS on September 13, 2013, 12:48:46 am
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/home-quantum-energy-generator
Perpetual Motion Machine with successful funding.
I think the Andromeda Galaxy just heard me smash my head into the wall repeatedly.
Sound traveling through space?
Yes, as it's more plausible than what they're trying to do.
Post by: freeformschooler on September 13, 2013, 12:54:22 am
Well played, Jamie.
Post by: Neonivek on September 13, 2013, 01:03:10 am
Post by: Putnam on September 13, 2013, 01:05:09 am
Post by: sackhead on September 13, 2013, 03:18:32 am
(http://images.indiegogo.com/file_attachments/51288/files/20130903192607-Jamie.png?1378261567)not crazy or Serbian enough....
Well played, Jamie.
Ladys and gentlemen i propose we electrocute an elephant to prove it is not safe... or possibly just beat it to death
Post by: Leafsnail on September 13, 2013, 04:05:53 am
Post by: Putnam on September 13, 2013, 04:07:24 am
Post by: werty892 on September 13, 2013, 05:40:15 am
I would really like a place to just read about hilarious crackpots like seriouslyThat would be great.
Post by: Karlito on September 13, 2013, 09:17:27 am
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/home-quantum-energy-generator
Perpetual Motion Machine with successful funding.
Huh, quite a few things other than the goal strike me as odd about this project, like the large amount of money raised in such a short time. I guess there's an existing community of ignorant people he tapped for funding?
Post by: MarcAFK on September 13, 2013, 09:19:23 am
"Mary Woods posted an announcement 5 days ago
I am grateful to participate in the Quantum Home Energy Generator Project as part of the support team. Since it is "quantum", an essential part is working in the unified field of consciousness, "holding the vision" of what is already manifested in the higher dimensions. In the spirit of cooperating and co-creating with these higher creative energies, I see my contribution as a Vision Holder, working in the thought atmosphere, attuning to The Source and feeling the flow of the true free energy; love, wisdom, and power, abundantly available to all. Like an idea whose time has come, we are the one's we have been waiting for, to bring in this new paradigm of free energy through our intention and alignment with the call.
Post by: DJ on September 13, 2013, 09:29:44 am
Post by: NobodyPro on September 13, 2013, 09:35:08 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Leafsnail on September 13, 2013, 09:54:46 am
Post by: Neonivek on September 13, 2013, 10:31:38 am
The funding looks a bit odd, 3 days ago they suddenly started getting loads of donations. I guess they might've got some kind of publicity boost, but it seems like kind of laundering operation.
Odd since this is a LOT more common on kickstarter then Indiegogo.
Post by: miauw62 on September 13, 2013, 10:50:32 am
Like FSTDT?I would really like a place to just read about hilarious crackpots like seriouslyThat would be great.
Post by: Draco18s on September 13, 2013, 12:19:01 pm
I tried to write a response to that but this picture is more conciseSpoiler (click to show/hide)
This is mine:
Uhh, a good bleeding with some leeches. Wait wait, no no! Not leeches! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=JyreW7ZBAIg#t=647)
Post by: Leafsnail on September 26, 2013, 09:27:13 pm
I'm linking this mainly for the website name.
Post by: Neonivek on September 26, 2013, 09:31:12 pm
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/78541249/feistybutt-fun-goes-to-the-farm
I'm linking this mainly for the website name.
I think we all want Feisty butts to succeed.
Post by: freeformschooler on September 26, 2013, 09:32:17 pm
Not sure if good or bad.
Post by: Neonivek on September 26, 2013, 09:35:29 pm
That's a really unique art and writing style.
Not sure if good or bad.
*Shrugs*
I'll ask Robert Munch.
Post by: kaian-a-coel on September 27, 2013, 10:26:56 am
What is this I dont evenWHAT the.... Fuck:Someone confused 'observation' with 'Spiritual stuff'
"Mary Woods posted an announcement 5 days ago
I am grateful to participate in the Quantum Home Energy Generator Project as part of the support team. Since it is "quantum", an essential part is working in the unified field of consciousness, "holding the vision" of what is already manifested in the higher dimensions. In the spirit of cooperating and co-creating with these higher creative energies, I see my contribution as a Vision Holder, working in the thought atmosphere, attuning to The Source and feeling the flow of the true free energy; love, wisdom, and power, abundantly available to all. Like an idea whose time has come, we are the one's we have been waiting for, to bring in this new paradigm of free energy through our intention and alignment with the call.
I'm facepalming so hard that the LISA satellite may have detected the gravitational ripples through space time I created. And that joke is still more scientific that this nonsense.
Post by: PTTG?? on September 28, 2013, 11:40:23 am
Quote
The words 'quantum field' sound mysterious, but this is just another way to say 'smaller than atoms.' The energy source for the QEG is the same
force which holds atoms together.
No, Quantum Field is a science fiction phrase meaning "magic happens here." And there already is a way to get energy from the force that holds atoms together; it's called a fission reactor.
EDIT:
This is great. This guy isn't insane, he's intentionally defrauding people. His principle is the electronic equivalent of using a waterwheel to power a pump that drives the waterwheel.
I mean, just because it works in Dwarf Fortress...
Post by: SealyStar on September 28, 2013, 12:52:37 pm
From that perpetual motion crackpot:QuoteThe words 'quantum field' sound mysterious, but this is just another way to say 'smaller than atoms.' The energy source for the QEG is the same
force which holds atoms together.
No, Quantum Field is a science fiction phrase meaning "magic happens here." And there already is a way to get energy from the force that holds atoms together; it's called a fission reactor.
To be fair, quantum mechanics is confusing enough to the unwashed (which is to say everyone who isn't a college-educated physicist, which is to say 99.99% of the population) that it's one of the few scientific bits that can be passed off reasonably as magic anymore, now that an increasing lot of people can see through formerly-"magic" things like genetic engineering or nuclear stuff.
In a few decades it'll be more demystified to the general population, and honestly I'm not sure if there's anything more esoteric than quantum physics, so I don't know what will replace it.
Post by: Draco18s on September 28, 2013, 01:56:27 pm
Post by: Sensei on September 28, 2013, 04:50:13 pm
His principle is the electronic equivalent of using a waterwheel to power a pump that drives the waterwheel.I'm pretty sure that holds true of absolutely all perpetual energy generators.
Post by: miauw62 on September 29, 2013, 03:15:06 am
Post by: ed boy on September 29, 2013, 09:10:35 am
Not quite. There are some that work off trying to harness energy in the environment.His principle is the electronic equivalent of using a waterwheel to power a pump that drives the waterwheel.I'm pretty sure that holds true of absolutely all perpetual energy generators.
Post by: Draco18s on September 29, 2013, 09:22:04 am
Not quite. There are some that work off trying to harness energy in the environment.
Those are not perpetual motion machines by definition.
Quote
Perpetual motion describes motion that continues indefinitely without any external source of energy.
"The environment" is classified as "external" otherwise you could claim that a solar panel attached to the roof is merely "drawing energy from the ambient environment."
Post by: MarcAFK on September 29, 2013, 09:48:36 am
'But it was free energy from the environment!"
Post by: Morrigi on September 29, 2013, 04:37:12 pm
Anybody that knows anything about science should know that "it uses quantum physics" means that it's bullshit.Quantum computers.
Post by: Darvi on September 29, 2013, 04:46:35 pm
Post by: kaian-a-coel on September 29, 2013, 04:50:03 pm
are in the work. Still far from the PC stage, but I heard the next F-something will be designed with the help of a quantum computer.Anybody that knows anything about science should know that "it uses quantum physics" means that it's bullshit.Quantum computers.
Post by: Draco18s on September 29, 2013, 09:11:55 pm
Post by: alway on September 29, 2013, 09:26:45 pm
WHAT the.... Fuck:That's fairly bog-standard new-age bullshit actually. The biggest proponent of which is probably Deepak Chopra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepak_Chopra).
"Mary Woods posted an announcement 5 days ago
I am grateful to participate in the Quantum Home Energy Generator Project as part of the support team. Since it is "quantum", an essential part is working in the unified field of consciousness, "holding the vision" of what is already manifested in the higher dimensions. In the spirit of cooperating and co-creating with these higher creative energies, I see my contribution as a Vision Holder, working in the thought atmosphere, attuning to The Source and feeling the flow of the true free energy; love, wisdom, and power, abundantly available to all. Like an idea whose time has come, we are the one's we have been waiting for, to bring in this new paradigm of free energy through our intention and alignment with the call.
Post by: Leafsnail on September 30, 2013, 07:30:33 am
Post by: ed boy on September 30, 2013, 09:36:06 am
Nope, but people can still claim them to be perpetual motion and fool others.Not quite. There are some that work off trying to harness energy in the environment.Those are not perpetual motion machines by definition.
Post by: miauw62 on September 30, 2013, 12:18:05 pm
Post by: nyulzsiraf on September 30, 2013, 08:32:13 pm
Alright, in 99% of the cases, "it uses quantum physics!" is equal to "it uses magic!".hmm :o
Post by: nyulzsiraf on September 30, 2013, 08:42:02 pm
epic video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqP6qzNwqBU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqP6qzNwqBU)
and i wonder they can succeed...
it isnt a new idea, and not the best lock technology, 1-2 min with right tool and they stole your bike.
Post by: MrWiggles on September 30, 2013, 09:41:01 pm
i saw this on kickstarter today: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1790324578/foldylock-the-premium-folding-bike-lock (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1790324578/foldylock-the-premium-folding-bike-lock)So whats the fail of it exactly?
epic video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqP6qzNwqBU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqP6qzNwqBU)
and i wonder they can succeed...
it isnt a new idea, and not the best lock technology, 1-2 min with right tool and they stole your bike.
It doesnt seem like they have a physical lock yet. And I also dun think you're getting a folding lock in awesome kewl coolers because its safe.
Post by: MarcAFK on September 30, 2013, 11:10:00 pm
Post by: nyulzsiraf on October 01, 2013, 08:24:05 am
"There are a lot of such locks already on the market. The Abus Bordo Granite series for example. What's the novelty? Also, it only takes a few minutes to cut through an Abus Bordo with a tungsten or diamond saw which costs ten bucks. I don't think this one would last longer. Also it's very ill-suited for a close combat weapon."i saw this on kickstarter today: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1790324578/foldylock-the-premium-folding-bike-lock (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1790324578/foldylock-the-premium-folding-bike-lock)So whats the fail of it exactly?
epic video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqP6qzNwqBU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqP6qzNwqBU)
and i wonder they can succeed...
it isnt a new idea, and not the best lock technology, 1-2 min with right tool and they stole your bike.
It doesnt seem like they have a physical lock yet. And I also dun think you're getting a folding lock in awesome kewl coolers because its safe.
Post by: Draco18s on October 01, 2013, 08:24:31 am
I'm assuming the finished lock won't still be made of plastic, will it? Though even a steel version would be rather easy to break with a screwdriver placed into those convienently large hinge holes.
Holes? Those are bolts. You're seeing reflection.
(http://s22.postimg.org/gzpgb5gfh/Capture.png)
Post by: 10ebbor10 on October 01, 2013, 08:33:51 am
But those don't use "Quantum physics". If you look for it, you'll find a detailed explanation of how the thing works, and which Quantum effects it uses for that. Not, Quantum = Problem solved.are in the work. Still far from the PC stage, but I heard the next F-something will be designed with the help of a quantum computer.Anybody that knows anything about science should know that "it uses quantum physics" means that it's bullshit.Quantum computers.
Post by: kaian-a-coel on October 01, 2013, 09:11:23 am
oh I see what you mean. It uses quantum physics, not "quantum physics #handwavium" ;)But those don't use "Quantum physics". If you look for it, you'll find a detailed explanation of how the thing works, and which Quantum effects it uses for that. Not, Quantum = Problem solved.are in the work. Still far from the PC stage, but I heard the next F-something will be designed with the help of a quantum computer.Anybody that knows anything about science should know that "it uses quantum physics" means that it's bullshit.Quantum computers.
Post by: Putnam on October 01, 2013, 03:30:58 pm
Post by: Ringmaster on October 11, 2013, 10:50:50 am
On beta release, multiplayer was not available (Among other smaller issues), and the dev (Zero of Zero Sum Games, which appears to be a one-man company) commented that he would not be including multiplayer in any release of the game. There was outrage on the Steam forums, with people posting to warn potential buyers off like this (http://i.imgur.com/zUgNytB.png).
The game was on a Steam sale recently, and during the sale, the Steam forums for the game were purged of any posts like that above, causing even more anger.
Post complaining about it on reddit, the dev posted a response. (http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/1o6ibo/zero_sum_games_stardrive_is_the_steam_daily_sale/)
Post by: Draco18s on October 11, 2013, 11:29:21 am
StarDrive (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1319847883/stardrive-a-4x-action-strategy-game-for-the-pc)
F*ck, I bought that on Steam.
Post by: Ringmaster on October 11, 2013, 12:21:45 pm
StarDrive (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1319847883/stardrive-a-4x-action-strategy-game-for-the-pc)
F*ck, I bought that on Steam.
It at least looks like the game has a lot of the promised features, it's just missing a few notable ones. Plus the dev's handling of the whole issue was horribly done.
Post by: Zangi on October 11, 2013, 03:16:58 pm
I think we also had a thread of this particular game in our other games section, but too many space games and this one never stood out for me.
Post by: MrWiggles on October 11, 2013, 06:02:56 pm
Making things, tend to take a life on their own, and there are just road blocks that you might not be able to over come.
So Stardrive not getting multiplayer would never strike me as that big of a deal. If it was the lynch pin that made me want to support the game. Ah well. Kickstarter is always a gamble. And that time, I backed the wrong horse.
And maybe the Dev could have handle it better. But honestly, even if he was 100 percent transparent as to why he couldnt/wouldnt include multiplayer, that probably wouldn't stop the butt hurt of it not being there.
Post by: Draco18s on October 11, 2013, 06:26:09 pm
So Stardrive not getting multiplayer would never strike me as that big of a deal. If it was the lynch pin that made me want to support the game.
It was one feature that made me buy it on steam, as I would love a good multiplayer game to play with friends.
Not the lynch pin, but definitely one of those "oh and when X, then Y, that makes this totally worth it."
Post by: MrWiggles on October 11, 2013, 06:49:46 pm
And maybe the Dev could have handle it better. But honestly, even if he was 100 percent transparent as to why he couldnt/wouldnt include multiplayer, that probably wouldn't stop the butt hurt of it not being there.Wouldn't stop the butt hurt, but he's coming off as a dick, AND it's probably trashed his reputation.
Reputation doesn't matter. How many folks are actually aware of Fez developer being a whiny asshat?
EDIT: Erroneous is.
Post by: Hawkfrost on October 11, 2013, 08:17:13 pm
And maybe the Dev could have handle it better. But honestly, even if he was 100 percent transparent as to why he couldnt/wouldnt include multiplayer, that probably wouldn't stop the butt hurt of it not being there.Wouldn't stop the butt hurt, but he's coming off as a dick, AND it's probably trashed his reputation.
Reputation is doesn't matter. How many folks are actually aware of Fez developer being a whiny asshat?
Considering the amount of lashback he got from his comments has caused him to quit the gaming scene?
Post by: MrWiggles on October 11, 2013, 09:52:59 pm
Did he actually quit? I knew he took Fez2 home because the internet has bunch of meanies.And maybe the Dev could have handle it better. But honestly, even if he was 100 percent transparent as to why he couldnt/wouldnt include multiplayer, that probably wouldn't stop the butt hurt of it not being there.Wouldn't stop the butt hurt, but he's coming off as a dick, AND it's probably trashed his reputation.
Reputation is doesn't matter. How many folks are actually aware of Fez developer being a whiny asshat?
Considering the amount of lashback he got from his comments has caused him to quit the gaming scene?
Post by: Hawkfrost on October 12, 2013, 12:35:45 am
Did he actually quit? I knew he took Fez2 home because the internet has bunch of meanies.And maybe the Dev could have handle it better. But honestly, even if he was 100 percent transparent as to why he couldnt/wouldnt include multiplayer, that probably wouldn't stop the butt hurt of it not being there.Wouldn't stop the butt hurt, but he's coming off as a dick, AND it's probably trashed his reputation.
Reputation is doesn't matter. How many folks are actually aware of Fez developer being a whiny asshat?
Considering the amount of lashback he got from his comments has caused him to quit the gaming scene?
I believe he said he was done with game design in general, though hold your hats for the inevitable backtrack.
Post by: penguinofhonor on November 22, 2013, 02:32:05 am
Post by: Putnam on November 22, 2013, 02:47:23 am
Post by: Skyrunner on November 22, 2013, 05:25:58 am
Recursively chown from me to me? Why'd you even do that?
Course, -R probably doesn't mean recursive (which I guess is -r)...
Post by: Aptus on November 22, 2013, 06:51:52 am
What da heck does that mean.
Recursively chown from me to me? Why'd you even do that?
Course, -R probably doesn't mean recursive (which I guess is -r)...
chown -R changes owners for subcategories and their files as well.
Post by: Skyrunner on November 22, 2013, 07:18:43 am
Post by: kaian-a-coel on December 01, 2013, 04:21:39 pm
It says it right here in the beginning of the page: "A genre defying sandbox game that combines elements from all of your favorite games in a procedurally generated universe."
It strikes me as having the "your world" syndrom.
Post by: Loud Whispers on December 01, 2013, 04:32:53 pm
I'm going to go out on this and bet this is a "doomed to fail" project: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/789726251/imagine-nations/DF in 3D and in space? I'd throw money at it straight away if it had a hope of succeeding. I'm skeptical.
It says it right here in the beginning of the page: "A genre defying sandbox game that combines elements from all of your favorite games in a procedurally generated universe."
It strikes me as having the "your world" syndrom.
Post by: Putnam on December 01, 2013, 04:35:11 pm
Post by: MorleyDev on December 01, 2013, 06:34:51 pm
I believe he said he was done with game design in general, though hold your hats for the inevitable backtrack.
Honestly if a man retreats from the public view because he's fed up of getting daily insults and death threats...well, all power to him. That he lasted this long is impressive, too many straws will break even the strongest of camels back. Regardless of what I think of his opinions, I was genuinely interested in hearing what he had to say. I'd often disagree, but that's okay: Oddly enough there's room in the world for opinions that differ from my own.
Post by: Draco18s on December 01, 2013, 06:41:44 pm
Quote
We will expand the base game from Windows, Mac, and Linux to support various consoles and mobile systems. Controller support for the base game will also be included. This will include:
Xbox 360
Xbox One
Playstation 3
Playstation 4
Nintendo Wii
Nintendo Wii-U
iOS
Android
Wat. They plan to support iOS and Android with this? Geeze. Good luck.
Post by: Darvi on December 01, 2013, 08:36:50 pm
Post by: zombie urist on December 01, 2013, 09:02:18 pm
I'm going to go out on this and bet this is a "doomed to fail" project: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/789726251/imagine-nations/Does anyone else find those people to be extremely creepy looking?
It says it right here in the beginning of the page: "A genre defying sandbox game that combines elements from all of your favorite games in a procedurally generated universe."
It strikes me as having the "your world" syndrom.
Post by: kaijyuu on December 01, 2013, 11:42:44 pm
Very yes.I'm going to go out on this and bet this is a "doomed to fail" project: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/789726251/imagine-nations/Does anyone else find those people to be extremely creepy looking?
It says it right here in the beginning of the page: "A genre defying sandbox game that combines elements from all of your favorite games in a procedurally generated universe."
It strikes me as having the "your world" syndrom.
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 02, 2013, 06:04:31 am
I'm going to go out on this and bet this is a "doomed to fail" project: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/789726251/imagine-nations/While that project looks terrible, I have to admit that the cube world picture they have is kind of badass.
It says it right here in the beginning of the page: "A genre defying sandbox game that combines elements from all of your favorite games in a procedurally generated universe."
It strikes me as having the "your world" syndrom.
Post by: Draco18s on December 02, 2013, 11:20:31 am
While that project looks terrible, I have to admit that the cube world picture they have is kind of badass.
And it's not even their picture. It's not even from National Geographic.
http://www.stufftoblowyourmind.com//blog/awesome-artistic-rendering-of-a-cubed-planet-earth/
(Also: like your avatar, but I can't read the Russian at the end)
Post by: MrWiggles on December 03, 2013, 02:23:43 am
Post by: kaijyuu on December 03, 2013, 02:28:12 am
Post by: MrWiggles on December 03, 2013, 02:55:54 am
Shouldn't that be in the "goes right" thread? Admittedly 90% of the stuff there is crap but 90% of everything is crap.That crowdsource place, has looser standards. No pun intended. Like, there a project for 23k with no clear goals at all.
Post by: Ameablable on December 03, 2013, 09:20:54 am
Tired of thinking for yourself?
would you rather leave your decisions up to random chance?
then The Push is for you!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/90731803/the-push
Post by: Draco18s on December 03, 2013, 09:34:02 am
Ever wondered what to do on a boring day?
Tired of thinking for yourself?
would you rather leave your decisions up to random chance?
then The Push is for you!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/90731803/the-push
And exactly zero people want it.
Post by: nenjin on December 03, 2013, 10:34:43 am
"I want to be a smash success on Kickstarter! But what to make.....*spends 20 minutes thinking about unrelated things and trying to make a product out of them*"
"Oh I know. Dice because I'm spineless and indecisive!"
Post by: Ameablable on December 03, 2013, 10:49:20 am
Post by: Draco18s on December 03, 2013, 10:52:14 am
i think the pledge rewards are the best part.
Totally is.
Post by: Lectorog on December 03, 2013, 10:53:26 am
i think the pledge rewards are the best part.Yeah - they'll only send out 5 copies of the game but they want $15k. It's like they think that people on Kickstarter will donate without getting something out of it.
Of course, it's probably a joke or mistake.
Most of the decisions made by the dice require further decisions.
Post by: Moghjubar on December 03, 2013, 11:35:18 am
Post by: Neonivek on December 03, 2013, 11:37:59 am
How are we supposed to make the decision to pledge to the dice kickstarter if we don't have dice already to make that decision for us?
And if I can muster the ability to pay for this kickstarter even though no arbitrary device is telling me to... do I really need this product?
Post by: Ameablable on December 03, 2013, 11:45:25 am
do I really need this product?these kind of questions could be answered by this product!
Post by: Tellemurius on December 03, 2013, 02:29:47 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: kaijyuu on December 03, 2013, 07:53:40 pm
Post by: Funk on December 03, 2013, 08:49:25 pm
Post by: Cthulhu on December 03, 2013, 09:05:55 pm
Post by: nenjin on December 03, 2013, 09:52:51 pm
Post by: Cthulhu on December 03, 2013, 11:49:44 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on December 03, 2013, 11:56:57 pm
I spent every dollar I had and what do I have to show for it? A piece of bent aluminum. Please help me. (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/953327145/the-surgeon-tool-the-tool-with-bite?ref=recently_launched)
That bottle openers not new. My grandma has one screwed to the underside of a cabinet.
Post by: SomeStupidGuy on December 04, 2013, 12:20:48 am
No, see, they made their bottle opener with SCIENCE and RESEARCH. Totally different from your grandma's.I spent every dollar I had and what do I have to show for it? A piece of bent aluminum. Please help me. (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/953327145/the-surgeon-tool-the-tool-with-bite?ref=recently_launched)
That bottle openers not new. My grandma has one screwed to the underside of a cabinet.
Post by: Lectorog on December 04, 2013, 12:24:35 am
Post by: Draco18s on December 04, 2013, 07:57:38 am
50 AUD: a YouTube link. Such quality.
And you don't even get a bottle opener.
Post by: Leafsnail on December 04, 2013, 09:27:50 am
Post by: Draco18s on December 04, 2013, 09:48:13 am
Post by: Cthulhu on December 04, 2013, 10:02:50 am
For one of his purchase tiers he offers an ebook called... Balls Deep in Sleep
Another artistic vision goes up in flames, (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2126503499/the-perverted-alien-slasher-film?ref=ending_soon) don't miss the 8 minute trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgU3QtXDYzo)
Post by: Draco18s on December 04, 2013, 11:02:38 am
Another artistic vision goes up in flames, (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2126503499/the-perverted-alien-slasher-film?ref=ending_soon) don't miss the 8 minute trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgU3QtXDYzo)
And I thought my sex life was too kinky for Craig's List. (http://www.cracked.com/blog/3-craigslist-ads-that-will-shake-your-faith-in-humanity/)
Post by: Cthulhu on December 04, 2013, 12:43:22 pm
Post by: kaijyuu on December 04, 2013, 12:49:15 pm
Post by: Elephant Parade on December 05, 2013, 12:13:21 am
Post by: SealyStar on December 05, 2013, 03:27:21 pm
Posting to watch.You missed some of the best thread drama. It used to be a pretty much constant stream of hilarious stupidity, now it's pretty sluggish.
Post by: nenjin on December 13, 2013, 10:55:14 am
Post by: Cthulhu on December 15, 2013, 02:37:06 pm
Kickstarter reminds me of that story in Walden about the Indian who doesn't understand why people don't give him money for his baskets. These people seem to at least vaguely grasp that people pay money for things, but haven't seemed to figure out that they have to be things worth buying.
Or in this case things worth sort of buying? Investing in? Get rid of the venture capitalism aspect and call it Panhandlr
Post by: MarcAFK on December 16, 2013, 09:31:50 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on February 28, 2014, 01:21:34 pm
Is there really no discussion thread for that debacle?
Post by: Drakale on February 28, 2014, 01:39:42 pm
Quote
If you would like a refund, please contact a fan of my work directly for your money. This is where the money would come from anyway. I am cutting out the middle man.
This man is a genius.
Post by: Graknorke on February 28, 2014, 01:58:38 pm
Post by: Putnam on February 28, 2014, 02:15:24 pm
Post by: Draco18s on February 28, 2014, 02:15:43 pm
So how did the wholemagicquantum foam infinite energy device turn out?
Check
http://hopegirl2012.wordpress.com/
And no, that really is their URL.
Post by: LeoLeonardoIII on February 28, 2014, 02:58:44 pm
I think the Pictures For Sad Children meltdown counts: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/73258510/sad-pictures-for-children/posts/759318John Campbell is hilarious. I choose to not care about John Campbell's meltdown, because caring about John Campbell's meltdown is not money, and all I care about in the whole world is money. Moneymoneymoneymoneymoney.
Is there really no discussion thread for that debacle?
If someone emails him asking for a refund but a mailer daemon flubs it and delivers the message twice, will he burn two books instead of one?
Post by: Sensei on February 28, 2014, 03:08:55 pm
I think the Pictures For Sad Children meltdown counts: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/73258510/sad-pictures-for-children/posts/759318Well, I read his inane crazy post. Clearly he's having some kind of nervous breakdown. Is there any back story to this or...?
Is there really no discussion thread for that debacle?
Post by: LeoLeonardoIII on February 28, 2014, 04:15:31 pm
He was born into wealth.
He has wealthy friends, which is partly just because you're in the right social circles and people like to be friends with others who are on the same socioeconomic level so disparity of wealth isn't a barrier.
He doesn't personally have wealth. This suggests his immediate family wasn't terribly wealthy, perhaps they experienced a decline around the time he was a lad.
He went to Dartmouth, with annual undergraduate tuition of $43k in the 2012-13 school year. A community college typically costs about $2.5k - $3.5k and an undergraduate program at a state school around $6k - $13k. From this we can infer that he had some financial assistance available beyond student loans (which he mentions working to pay off).
He takes / took antidepressants. This suggests a significant emotional and/or behavioral issue, but it could be overprotective parents wanting to throw a pill at their normal kid to make him stop causing problems. Because he continued taking them as an adult, we can be charitable and assume he needed them.
At some point he began to alienate from his social circle. Perhaps this was linked to his economic decline. He mentions people offering him loans, financial advice, networking, etc. Clearly there were still people who considered him a friend despite any alienation.
He seems concerned with authenticity. He also seems enamored with the idea that he can see through the bullshit of our society and few other people do. He considers that supposed talent / trait worthwhile.
I'm on the fence as to whether he considers himself a crusader for the poor, possibly counting himself among them, attempting to increase equality. Or whether he just doesn't want to deal with money and would like an option where he does things and lives and eats without participating in the rat race and checkbook balancing of "work for paycheck and pay money for rent and food."
His language is similar to that of Harold Skimpole of Dickens' Bleak House, a wastrel living off the goodwill of wealthy friends who consider his eccentricities charming. Yet Campbell clearly understands what money is worth, and that he can enter a 7-11 and exchange a dollar for a candy bar. The clerk won't accept just a dime for the candy bar, nor will he expect $750 for it.
He clearly doesn't want an economic relationship where he makes comics and people give him money, but if he doesn't make comics they don't give him money. He also doesn't want a relationship where someone hands him money and expects that he will hand them back a book. It sounds like he wants to be supported and be able to do whatever he wants with no expectations placed upon him.
This is different from patronage, which would be one way of getting what he wants, because patrons tend to expect you to produce something. The patronage relationship is somewhat similar to a gift economy, wherein the most powerful person is the one able to give the best gifts, and where accepting gifts beyond what you can return lowers your social standing. The patronized artist is kept alive and working, but it is known that he is supported by the patron. The works of the artist are in some way aggrandizing for the patron, and that detracts somewhat from the prestige of the artist. A meager artist won't add much prestige to the patron, so he cannot get a patronage, although he actually gains prestige from being associated with the patron in addition to the income. And a strong artist will lose much more prestige than the patron would gain, so the patron courts him, but the artist will try to be self-sufficient if he possibly can.
Anyway, despite his meandering talk of money being pointless and how human relationships are what matter, I 100% doubt that Campbell would enter into a true patronage relationship because it would quash his ego. He believes at this point that he's a strong artist.
So, as he says, it will be interesting to see what happens. His landlord can surely kick him out, but if his landlord is a real shitter maybe he has Campbell's stuff thrown out into the street and beat the shit out of him if he fights back. That's how the real world works.
People with their heads in the clouds get stubbed toes.
Post by: kaijyuu on February 28, 2014, 04:20:56 pm
Post by: freeformschooler on February 28, 2014, 04:27:26 pm
Pictures for sad children is an (intermittently) funny comic. If you paid money for it on kickstarter and he delivered, good. If he didn't deliver, that's bad, and you should talk about that. This pretentious psycho-analysis where you lower yourself to John Campbell's pathetic level (discussion primarily about identity and motive rather than primarily about action) does nothing but encourage the same behavior.
In fact, a lot of this thread is that: discussion about the creator identities ("look how stupid this person is!") rather than the things themselves. I remember that Guild MMO where everyone got so distracted by his lottery story that it eventually overtook discussion of how stupid the thing itself was. If you want to have a thread about that, great, but that's not where Kickstarter and Kickstarters goes/go wrong. That's Where Stupid People Asking For Money Goes Wrong. Notice the difference.
The unabomber used that exact same trick by writing his manifesto. Instead of simply being "oh that guy blew up x people and that's bad," it became, "well, that's terrible, but he had some good points..."
Post by: kaijyuu on February 28, 2014, 04:37:47 pm
Post by: freeformschooler on February 28, 2014, 04:40:58 pm
Are you saying we shouldn't ask why people do bad things?
That shouldn't be the focus, no. The focus should be on the actual bad things themselves. On average, though, it is not.
Instead of asking, "what character qualities/backstory caused this to happen," ask "what actions do we need to take to prevent this?" The two are linked but distinct. One is more powerful a question than the other.
Post by: kaijyuu on February 28, 2014, 04:44:51 pm
Post by: freeformschooler on February 28, 2014, 04:54:34 pm
Knowing what causes someone to do X is required to know what actions are necessary to prevent X. Unless, of course, you limit your options solely to using deterrents, which is pretty stupid.
I agree. I even said they were linked. Last post. However, that is not what I am arguing. I am arguing that the discussion should primarily be around action rather than identity. Not solely - you need to see some personality patterns to determine who's a con and who's not - but primarily. That's not what's happening.
How would you prevent something the PFSC thing from happening next time? It's an obvious exploit of the system if you can simply change your mind on delivering the product (whatever that product may be). There's some discussion regarding whether kickstarter is a good will donation or an investment - do you expect to get some final product - and occasionally a legally binding contract for creators has been discussed. However, I've already contacted kickstarted about this, and they said no. Probably the only course of action for forcing the hand of creators would be either some better way to contact them directly (just look how the Cult guy disappeared off the face of the Earth for a long time, it seems like a bad idea if KS authors can stay that anonymous - what's preventing someone like that from resurfacing under a completely different identity and asking for money again?) or a petition to change KS' rules itself.
Post by: kaijyuu on February 28, 2014, 05:09:11 pm
I've got no problem with Kickstarter's methods, though I do have to say to every backer: buyer beware.
Real investors invest knowing they're taking risks. Yes, they have contracts to ensure the person actually tries to do what they pitched, but in the end they get what they get.
Ultimately I feel the problem with people taking money and running will be mostly solved by more backer skepticism in the future. Pitchers already include evidence that they have the capacity to do what they're claiming, and I can only see them doing this even more. Meanwhile random joes with little prior experience will be met with even more raised eyebrows when they show their idea.
I don't see any watertight fix to the problem being practical.
Post by: MrWiggles on February 28, 2014, 07:09:03 pm
And you can't ever reasonably require that a product to be delivered complete. There a multitude of ways to fail, then there are to ways succeed.
Scams, are going to be part of Crowd Sourcing, tu the fact that it can be gamed, is nto reason enough to disallow crowd sourcing.
The Donators have personal agency and personal responsibility.
Post by: kaijyuu on February 28, 2014, 09:32:02 pm
Man that's so much more reasonable than what I initially thought you were saying.
Post by: nenjin on February 28, 2014, 09:37:30 pm
I had an epiphany a little bit ago about what you were trying to say, FFS. You were saying that some people use infamy to get notice so that people will listen to what they have to say, and we shouldn't listen to it when people do this. Otherwise other people will be encouraged to become infamous so they can soapbox about what they want to too.
Man that's so much more reasonable than what I initially thought you were saying.
(http://i.imgur.com/MkfxIP3.png)
....was someone's opinion just changed in a positive way on the internet? Sumbitch.....
Post by: freeformschooler on February 28, 2014, 11:18:45 pm
I had an epiphany a little bit ago about what you were trying to say, FFS. You were saying that some people use infamy to get notice so that people will listen to what they have to say, and we shouldn't listen to it when people do this. Otherwise other people will be encouraged to become infamous so they can soapbox about what they want to too.
Man that's so much more reasonable than what I initially thought you were saying.
Yes. Thank you for thinking about it. I come across too strong and often it is difficult to get a point across when doing so.
Unfortunately you are right about investors. Didn't really think about that. Kickstarter is just as susceptible to Bernie Madoff as anything else. It's such a great system, though, and it would be amazing if there were a way to make it slightly more reliable without relying on the wisdom of the moneyed crowds. Hmm...
Post by: Cheeetar on February 28, 2014, 11:54:30 pm
I think the Pictures For Sad Children meltdown counts: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/73258510/sad-pictures-for-children/posts/759318
Is there really no discussion thread for that debacle?
Wow, that's pretty insane and I am very looking forward to seeing the conclusion of this from the sidelines.
Post by: Leafsnail on March 01, 2014, 02:44:22 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on March 01, 2014, 06:29:03 pm
Seems like a genuine mental breakdown, hopefully he'll get help soon.
I've read through her entire post (I'm not sure I'd recommend it) and I'm not sure if it's solely just pressure and other factors getting to her that prompted the post, given how confident she seems that burning the books people bought is a good idea.
In an attempt to summarize what I read: Money is stupid, she shouldn't have to work to survive, and she's going to find a group of people who are willing to pay for everything she needs to survive so she can potter around doing whatever she wants.
Edit: Had no idea of the pronoun change. Sorry.
Post by: Parsely on March 01, 2014, 06:32:52 pm
Seems like a genuine mental breakdown, hopefully he'll get help soon.What is it?
Post by: alway on March 01, 2014, 07:03:52 pm
Seems like a genuine mental breakdown, hopefully he'll get help soon.Yeah. Can't really blame him for it either. By the looks of it, he miscalculated costs at the start and ended up losing much more than he gained. Thus defeating the point of all the stress and effort put into the entire thing, leaving him basically broke and with a bad reputation regardless. So if you started out on the edge, that would certainly tip you right over it.
Post by: Graknorke on March 01, 2014, 07:09:41 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/MkfxIP3.png)Do you wanna be in my gang?
Post by: Rolan7 on March 02, 2014, 12:28:57 pm
Seems like a genuine mental breakdown, hopefully he'll get help soon.
I've read through his entire post (I'm not sure I'd recommend it) and I'm not sure if it's solely just pressure and other factors getting to him that prompted the post, given how confident he seems that burning the books people bought is a good idea.
In an attempt to summarize what I read: Money is stupid, he shouldn't have to work to survive, and he's going to find a group of people who are willing to pay for everything he needs to survive so he can potter around doing whatever he wants.
And once she finds such a group of people, she intends to "transfer the relationships" to someone else. Someone else will get the free lunches instead. That's one reason I'm pretty sure she's suicidal, or at least making a cry for help.
Post by: SealyStar on March 02, 2014, 06:55:20 pm
I love how 90% of that giant post has nothing to do with what went wrong and what he's doing.I choose to believe that the QEG thing and the weird conspiracy website are part of an ARG for an upcoming RPG-FPS from either Bioware or a Zenimax subsidiary :PSo how did the wholemagicquantum foam infinite energy device turn out?
Check
http://hopegirl2012.wordpress.com/
And no, that really is their URL.
Post by: Putnam on March 02, 2014, 06:57:05 pm
Post by: SealyStar on March 02, 2014, 07:03:53 pm
One that isn't Bethesda, of course, since Bethesda doesn't know how to subtlety.Maybe it is. Maybe the Dwemer wiped themselves out trying to make the QEG, and The Elder Scrolls VI: Skydaggerblivimorrowrena centers around your quest to complete their work.
Post by: Putnam on March 02, 2014, 08:50:32 pm
One that isn't Bethesda, of course, since Bethesda doesn't know how to subtlety.Maybe it is. Maybe the Dwemer wiped themselves out trying to make the QEG, and The Elder Scrolls VI: Skydaggerblivimorrowrena centers around your quest to complete their work.
We know exactly how and why they disappeared, silly! It was answered outright in Morrowind!
Post by: SealyStar on March 02, 2014, 08:55:48 pm
That was all Dagoth Ur feeding you lies.One that isn't Bethesda, of course, since Bethesda doesn't know how to subtlety.Maybe it is. Maybe the Dwemer wiped themselves out trying to make the QEG, and The Elder Scrolls VI: Skydaggerblivimorrowrena centers around your quest to complete their work.
We know exactly how and why they disappeared, silly! It was answered outright in Morrowind!
Post by: LeoLeonardoIII on March 03, 2014, 05:33:35 pm
Post by: Mr. Strange on March 03, 2014, 05:57:24 pm
In reality dwemer chimmed themselves to Masser and Secunda, and took over the moon colonies. In TESVI they will launch invasion of all of Tamriel with steampunkish airships airdropping dwemer spheres armed with tesla rods in and around cities. Of course, it won't be made by Bethesda.That was all Dagoth Ur feeding you lies.One that isn't Bethesda, of course, since Bethesda doesn't know how to subtlety.Maybe it is. Maybe the Dwemer wiped themselves out trying to make the QEG, and The Elder Scrolls VI: Skydaggerblivimorrowrena centers around your quest to complete their work.
We know exactly how and why they disappeared, silly! It was answered outright in Morrowind!
Post by: Putnam on March 03, 2014, 07:48:10 pm
Post by: Neonivek on March 04, 2014, 12:50:09 am
But the Dwemmer no longer being around because they instead flew to the moon... makes total sense.
Post by: Putnam on March 04, 2014, 12:58:47 am
And also they disappeared during the battle of Red Mountain with Nerevar watching as Kagrenac used the tools on the Heart of Lorkhan, at which point Numidium activated.
That's just what's presented in Morrowind. Put it together :I
Post by: SealyStar on March 04, 2014, 10:58:39 am
I know it is a joke...I got the poorly-made Dwarven spaceship Skyrim mod that implies just that. Except they're dead there too.
But the Dwemmer no longer being around because they instead flew to the moon... makes total sense.
Post by: LeoLeonardoIII on March 04, 2014, 06:37:06 pm
Spoiler: Spoils two things (click to show/hide)
Post by: nenjin on March 04, 2014, 07:18:41 pm
Into its own thread please.
Post by: LeoLeonardoIII on March 04, 2014, 08:06:41 pm
Post by: Draco18s on March 04, 2014, 11:30:17 pm
Derail assumes there were rails. This forum is more like a fast-moving puddle of hot lard on a frictionless surface.
Or a bead of cold water on a hot griddle.
Post by: SealyStar on March 05, 2014, 08:46:36 am
Kind of like a railgun. First we're on rails for a fraction of a second, then the thread gets launched into space.
Post by: LeoLeonardoIII on March 05, 2014, 12:52:58 pm
Wait, what does space represent again?
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on March 05, 2014, 01:01:09 pm
Post by: LeoLeonardoIII on March 05, 2014, 01:09:45 pm
Post by: nenjin on March 05, 2014, 02:14:27 pm
Post by: nenjin on June 14, 2014, 03:28:33 pm
Post by: Graknorke on June 14, 2014, 05:54:31 pm
C-c-c-c-ombo Fail. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZCXuMLrmXc)The guy from 8 is really creepy.
Post by: miauw62 on July 11, 2014, 05:16:21 am
Developed by the people that worked on ADRUINO (sic) SOFTWARE and LINUX KERNEL (http://www.operatingsystemu.com/#!pankaj-dhar/c1n8r)
Post by: Draco18s on July 11, 2014, 10:41:21 am
We want 150,000$ dollars for an arch subdistro with wayland. (http://www.operatingsystemu.com/)
Developed by the people that worked on ADRUINO (sic) SOFTWARE and LINUX KERNEL (http://www.operatingsystemu.com/#!pankaj-dhar/c1n8r)
Quote
I am a highly-qualified software engineers from the best software institutes in India(IIT's), trained to deliver the highest quality Embedded Systems and Telecommunications software.
And your photo looks like it was taken from a security camera circa 1990.
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 11, 2014, 10:51:30 am
Post by: Draco18s on July 11, 2014, 12:01:23 pm
Really, a hype page for a Kickstarter he's planning on making? We're getting dangerously close to "Kickstarter to make a Kickstarter" here.
Generating hype prior to a Kickstarter is actually a good idea. You need an audience that already wants in on what you're doing before you launch the Kickstarter, so you can maximize your initial funding.
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 11, 2014, 12:13:20 pm
Post by: MarcAFK on July 11, 2014, 12:18:37 pm
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/324283889/potato-salad (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/324283889/potato-salad)
Quote
5,737
Backers
$46,530
pledged of $10 goal
21
days to go
Quote
Potato Salad Kickstarter Guy May Have to Swallow $21,000 Tax Bill
Quote
The Guy Who Raised $US70,000 For Potato Salad On Kickstarter Wants To Give Money To Charity, But Kickstarter's Rules Won't Let Him
Post by: SirAaronIII on July 11, 2014, 12:21:21 pm
Post by: Sergarr on July 11, 2014, 12:47:07 pm
cue potato saladReally, a hype page for a Kickstarter he's planning on making? We're getting dangerously close to "Kickstarter to make a Kickstarter" here.
Generating hype prior to a Kickstarter is actually a good idea. You need an audience that already wants in on what you're doing before you launch the Kickstarter, so you can maximize your initial funding.
EDIT:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/beatles1/nothing-simulator-2015This is why we can't have nice things.
I'd give them a $, but they only take £, and $1.70 is almost half a slice of gourmet pizza.
Post by: Leafsnail on July 11, 2014, 01:05:24 pm
That is of course if he doesn't just decide to hire a band or something for his party to spend the money.
Post by: Criptfeind on July 11, 2014, 01:20:16 pm
Post by: Leafsnail on July 11, 2014, 01:41:57 pm
Post by: Glloyd on July 11, 2014, 04:50:53 pm
Post by: Orange Wizard on July 11, 2014, 05:04:46 pm
I can't get over how dumb that potato salad thing is. There's so many awesome independent bands who have kickstarters up for legitimate things, and they don't get any money because they fall short of their modest goal by a couple hundred dollars. This guy gets $70000 for a fucking potato salad. People have more way money than brains it seems.Dude, it's a fucking potato salad. What's not to love?
Post by: Glloyd on July 11, 2014, 05:21:22 pm
I can't get over how dumb that potato salad thing is. There's so many awesome independent bands who have kickstarters up for legitimate things, and they don't get any money because they fall short of their modest goal by a couple hundred dollars. This guy gets $70000 for a fucking potato salad. People have more way money than brains it seems.Dude, it's a fucking potato salad. What's not to love?
The fact that it's potato salad, and the fact that it's ridiculous how much money he got?
Post by: Parsely on July 11, 2014, 05:25:20 pm
Post by: Glloyd on July 11, 2014, 05:45:42 pm
Post by: Parsely on July 11, 2014, 05:46:28 pm
Post by: kaenneth on July 11, 2014, 08:36:59 pm
Post by: Neonivek on July 11, 2014, 08:51:31 pm
I mean people spend more the a million dollars a year on bread... yet no one wants to tear bread a new one.
Now if it was a joke kickstarter that people really bought into... that is just odd.
Post by: Elephant Parade on July 11, 2014, 09:19:55 pm
Post by: Glloyd on July 11, 2014, 09:32:00 pm
It was a joke kickstarter. The original goal was $100, and I doubt that the author even expected that much.
I thought it was $10? Either way, it was obviously a joke.
Post by: MarcAFK on July 11, 2014, 11:31:05 pm
Fuck it I need potato salad now, brb.
Post by: Neonivek on July 11, 2014, 11:47:38 pm
Yeah It was 10$
Fuck it I need potato salad now, brb.
Trust me GOOD potato salad is just that good.
Post by: alway on July 12, 2014, 12:07:05 am
Yeah. Taxes and having too much money doesn't seem like a issue, after all he can just pocket the excess in theory as a profit after the party can't he? Then do as he wants with it. Although, actually reading his kickstarter rewards, I'm not sure how he thinks he can send a single bite of salad to everyone. And how he is going to fit in like 350 people into his kitchen. How he is going to add like 800 different ingredients to the salad. Even saying like three thousand peoples names as he makes this stuff.Dude, it's a satirical kickstarter to begin with. If he's smart, here's what's going to happen:
He will say as many of the names as he can while making the potato salad. He will then mail out a bite of potato salad to everyone... until he runs out of it. Afterwards, he posts an update on Kickstarter, profusely apologizing for his inability to deliver on the promised backer rewards. Followed a few weeks later by a second update, talking about how he spent all the money on booze to deal with the stress of it all.
Post by: MarcAFK on July 12, 2014, 12:15:38 am
I don't need $10 for my potato salad, just Roasted Potato, Steamed potato, fried potato, mashed potato, and cream of potato souip.....Yeah It was 10$
Fuck it I need potato salad now, brb.
Trust me GOOD potato salad is just that good.
Post by: Parsely on July 12, 2014, 12:29:02 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Neonivek on July 12, 2014, 12:49:12 am
Post by: nenjin on July 24, 2014, 11:20:04 am
S.T.A.L.K.E.R is becoming one of those titles where it seems like everyone has some claim to fame with it. I've lost track of the number of STALKER-inspired games I've heard about since GSC closed.
Post by: Neonivek on July 24, 2014, 03:26:01 pm
Oh man, tasty KS fail drama here: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/07/23/areal-kickstarter-suspended-stalker-spirital-successor/#more-222199
S.T.A.L.K.E.R is becoming one of those titles where it seems like everyone has some claim to fame with it. I've lost track of the number of STALKER-inspired games I've heard about since GSC closed.
Well, so they have someone who is a worse PR manager then Chucklefish... which is impressive.
Post by: Duuvian on July 24, 2014, 03:59:50 pm
Oh man, tasty KS fail drama here: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/07/23/areal-kickstarter-suspended-stalker-spirital-successor/#more-222199
S.T.A.L.K.E.R is becoming one of those titles where it seems like everyone has some claim to fame with it. I've lost track of the number of STALKER-inspired games I've heard about since GSC closed.
It would be an interesting time for a STALKER game too, being set in Ukraine...
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 24, 2014, 04:08:43 pm
Post by: Neonivek on July 24, 2014, 04:21:23 pm
If it was a wild animal that died of natural causes, it is vegan.
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 24, 2014, 04:24:10 pm
Post by: Neonivek on July 24, 2014, 04:25:14 pm
I think that's something that vegetarians have different opinions on.
It is something most if not all vegetarians don't have a real opinion on... because it is a REALLY bad idea to eat an animal that died of natural causes.
Post by: SomeStupidGuy on July 24, 2014, 08:06:52 pm
Because if not, it's a pretty beautiful mess.
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 24, 2014, 08:17:07 pm
It is something most if not all vegetarians don't have a real opinion on... because it is a REALLY bad idea to eat an animal that died of natural causes.
You just aren't cooking it right, man. The diseases add more flavor.
Have you folks gotten into the immense crashing and burning that happened from that Yogventures kickstarter?
Because if not, it's a pretty beautiful mess.
I predicted it as soon as I saw the Kickstarter, if that's what you mean (although pretty much everyone did).
Post by: SomeStupidGuy on July 24, 2014, 08:26:41 pm
The devs have pretty much ended up passing all their art assets and such to the yogscast. And may file for bankruptcy.
Last I checked the yogs-whatever dudes were throwing out excuses and consolation steam codes for some indie game at the backers.
It's pretty amusing. I'd feel bad for the dudes(what with the bankruptcy), except they were claiming that they could make a minecraft(EXCEPT BETTER!) with $150,000. And that's just asking for some hubris to get all up in your face.
Post by: MrWiggles on July 25, 2014, 01:06:07 am
I remember that. It sounded like a piece of shit pipe dream.
Beyond all the super wai mundo kool feature they were going to add, the thing that actually bugged me was this:
Why werent they adding any sort of tool set within the game for Machinma? You know the thing that these hapless brits amazingly make a living off of?
Post by: Duuvian on July 25, 2014, 04:01:13 am
Post by: Sergius on July 25, 2014, 12:28:42 pm
John Stewart announced a kickstarter to buy CNN for 10 billion dollars. I'd suggest he should just ask how much Fareed Zakaria would cost.
Whoa, Green Lantern made a kickstarter? Ah, you meant Jon Stewart. Still pretty cool.
Post by: Furtuka on July 25, 2014, 12:56:28 pm
John Stewart announced a kickstarter to buy CNN for 10 billion dollars. I'd suggest he should just ask how much Fareed Zakaria would cost.
Whoa, Green Lantern made a kickstarter? Ah, you meant Jon Stewart. Still pretty cool.
It's not an actual kickstarter, it's a parody one with its own website that doesn't actually let you donate. http://www.letsbuycnn.com/
Post by: Sirus on July 25, 2014, 01:04:28 pm
Aren't parodies supposed to be...I dunno, humorous? Funny? At the very least capable of eliciting some minor amount of amusement?John Stewart announced a kickstarter to buy CNN for 10 billion dollars. I'd suggest he should just ask how much Fareed Zakaria would cost.
Whoa, Green Lantern made a kickstarter? Ah, you meant Jon Stewart. Still pretty cool.
It's not an actual kickstarter, it's a parody one with its own website that doesn't actually let you donate. http://www.letsbuycnn.com/
Post by: Furtuka on July 25, 2014, 01:28:05 pm
The bits in the description are... mildly amusing I guess? He announced it on his show so maybe the bulk of funny is there?Aren't parodies supposed to be...I dunno, humorous? Funny? At the very least capable of eliciting some minor amount of amusement?John Stewart announced a kickstarter to buy CNN for 10 billion dollars. I'd suggest he should just ask how much Fareed Zakaria would cost.
Whoa, Green Lantern made a kickstarter? Ah, you meant Jon Stewart. Still pretty cool.
It's not an actual kickstarter, it's a parody one with its own website that doesn't actually let you donate. http://www.letsbuycnn.com/
Post by: Sergius on July 25, 2014, 02:05:06 pm
Aren't parodies supposed to be...I dunno, humorous? Funny? At the very least capable of eliciting some minor amount of amusement?John Stewart announced a kickstarter to buy CNN for 10 billion dollars. I'd suggest he should just ask how much Fareed Zakaria would cost.
Whoa, Green Lantern made a kickstarter? Ah, you meant Jon Stewart. Still pretty cool.
It's not an actual kickstarter, it's a parody one with its own website that doesn't actually let you donate. http://www.letsbuycnn.com/
Actually, no. A parody may have the sole intent to criticize something, or be spiteful. Its function is to mock something.
Usually the mockery of a parody is the subject itself, but in this case the thing being parodied is Kickstarter, while the thing being criticized is, news cable I think.
Also, humor is subjective. So, people may find this one funny, and others might not, believe it or not.
EDIT: this link may be helpful. (https://www.google.com/search?q=do+parodies+have+to+be+funny)
Post by: miauw62 on July 25, 2014, 03:29:49 pm
Pf, amateurs.
Post by: Sergius on July 25, 2014, 05:21:52 pm
Posting a google search link that's not a lmgtfy?
Pf, amateurs.
I considered it but I thought it would have misunderstood as snarky... yeah, let's go with that.
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 27, 2014, 10:52:47 am
I recommend watching the video.
Post by: Dutchling on July 27, 2014, 11:01:34 am
Give This Guy $15000 to Buy a Dinosaur Costume (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/306994168/dinosaur-of-doomand-entertainment)I'm sorry but there are too many le memes in that video for me to survive watching the entirety of it.
I recommend watching the video.
Post by: Cheeetar on July 27, 2014, 11:03:49 am
Give This Guy $15000 to Buy a Dinosaur Costume (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/306994168/dinosaur-of-doomand-entertainment)I'm sorry but there are too many le memes in that video for me to survive watching the entirety of it.
I recommend watching the video.
I only spotted one le funny meme xD. Give it another shot. I think it's worth watching all the way through.
Post by: Draco18s on July 27, 2014, 11:52:37 am
Post by: Valid_Dark on July 28, 2014, 05:19:27 am
I don't think I've ever seen a kickstarter this bad before, Watch the video, it'll give you a good laugh.
Post by: Dutchling on July 28, 2014, 05:32:05 am
edit: kitty :3
editt: is that his mom?
Post by: BlitzDungeoneer on July 28, 2014, 05:38:26 am
That video is just... terrible. So is the kickstarter.
Post by: Valid_Dark on July 28, 2014, 05:45:11 am
That's just... sad :c
edit: kitty :3
editt: is that his mom?
Yeah, it looks like that's his mom in the background.
Also, someone added him on facebook and asked some questions about the project,
http://imgur.com/a/2gDeG
The guy seems to be legitimately crazy.
Post by: BlitzDungeoneer on July 28, 2014, 05:52:06 am
And he's in his human form now...
Seems legit.
Unless he's trolling them.
Post by: Dutchling on July 28, 2014, 05:54:54 am
Post by: Draco18s on July 28, 2014, 08:08:55 am
"High tech touchscreens" and "high tech intercooler."
Wait, what? What the hell does he need an intercooler for? It's to dissipate heat in a multistage heating process. Like your car's engine (turbochargers and superchargers suck in so much air that it heats up before it even gets to the engine, so an intercooler is used to compensate).
Post by: Sergarr on July 28, 2014, 12:51:26 pm
If he said that he was a black dragon I would have praised him in his immune-to-all-magic glory.
Post by: Dutchling on July 28, 2014, 12:53:55 pm
Post by: Sergarr on July 28, 2014, 01:23:35 pm
Azure Dragon best dragon.FTFY
(although faerie dragons are very nice if they roll up chain lightning)
Post by: BlitzDungeoneer on July 28, 2014, 01:27:15 pm
Azure Dragons is best dragon, though.
Post by: Valid_Dark on July 28, 2014, 01:54:31 pm
Spoiler: "Quantum Turbine Engine" (click to show/hide)
Post by: miauw62 on July 28, 2014, 02:10:00 pm
Post by: Sergarr on July 28, 2014, 02:41:27 pm
Are you talking 'bout Heroes of Might and Magic, or just Might and Magic? Never played the latter, see.
Azure Dragons is best dragon, though.
In Might and Magic,
Post by: BlitzDungeoneer on July 28, 2014, 02:44:02 pm
Post by: Sergarr on July 28, 2014, 02:49:19 pm
In modern games they're so ugly =/
Post by: Dutchling on July 28, 2014, 02:52:57 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: BlitzDungeoneer on July 28, 2014, 03:02:38 pm
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 28, 2014, 03:34:42 pm
Your picture does not work, at least for me.
Post by: Dutchling on July 28, 2014, 03:36:47 pm
It's not relevant to the thread anyway >.>
Post by: Draco18s on July 28, 2014, 03:49:56 pm
I obviously meant this guy:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Handy link (http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes4/images/monsters/faerie_dragons.jpg). The site probably doesn't allow hotlinking.
Post by: nenjin on July 28, 2014, 03:51:36 pm
I obviously meant this guy:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Handy link (http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes4/images/monsters/faerie_dragons.jpg). The site probably doesn't allow hotlinking.
I get a 403 Forbidden on that link as well.
Post by: Sergarr on July 28, 2014, 04:14:09 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This one, right?
Post by: BlitzDungeoneer on July 28, 2014, 04:16:10 pm
Post by: Dutchling on July 28, 2014, 04:16:46 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: MrWiggles on July 28, 2014, 04:28:14 pm
HD Might and Magic: Land of Xeen would be sooooo fucking boss.
Post by: Sergarr on July 28, 2014, 05:38:42 pm
Oh my god...I'd kickstart that. God so many good moments. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBp1uC2cvUM)
HD Might and Magic: Land of Xeen would be sooooo fucking boss.
Post by: MarcAFK on July 28, 2014, 06:24:31 pm
"Will you help me buy an X-bawks!"
I kinda need one bad.
My mom won't buy me one,
she is kinda dumb,
She don't like my feathered wings!
She has webbed ones,
just like my dad.
Both dragons,
silvia and gregory nightail.
Please kickstarter, buy me an x-bocks!
......Quantum turbiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine!
Post by: palsch on July 29, 2014, 03:46:30 pm
Alt-Fest (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/alt-fest/alt-fest-multi-genre-crowd-led-alternative-festiva) got funded last year. Only £61,762 (£30,000 goal) of what appears to have been seed cash to develop a multi-genre, alternative based (primarily goth) festival. They managed to put together an incredibly impressive lineup (http://www.alt-fest.com/index.html), a rather interesting philosophy and ethos behind the event and fairly reasonable prices for this sort of thing.
And today there are rumours of it all being cancelled, 16 days out for it opening.
A bunch of odd emails and stories popped up a few hours ago, now two of the big headliners (Marilyn Manson and Cradle of Filth) have events showing as cancelled. There are broken websites and rumours of emails being sent by guys who were fired, some bands being contacted directly, others indirectly through management, others not at all. Rumours of one stage being pulled, rumours of health and safety issues with the site. Rumours of a £400,000 shortfall of cash. No official statement at all from the festival organisers.
I wasn't in on the kickstarter but got a cheap earlybird ticket through a friend. Was going to be the only big festival I did this year. Probably end up just being a Damnation (http://damnationfestival.co.uk/) year again...
Post by: Glloyd on July 29, 2014, 06:15:50 pm
Quote from: cybermatrix
the console does not use CGI Effects. it uses CYBER AUTHENTICATED TABLE [CAT] tools that you can use to make cat based movies and games. you can publish it to microsoft consoles, nintendo consoles, and sony consoles as well as google consoles [ouya], or to cybermatrix.com [site not built]. you can burn it to cd-r, dvd r, dvd r dl or blu-ray discs.
It was believable until he got to the part about Nintendo allowing third-party independent publishers.
Post by: tuypo1 on August 04, 2014, 01:08:47 am
Very vaugly related but am I the only one that thinks flying mounts in wow should have been made slower then ground mountsImagine if everyone followed the dude who pledged 10k as a joke, and it really happened, the amount was met.
Bankruptcy.
Imagine if he just decides, being a millionaire already, to donate the difference to himself on the last day. Jesus wept.
So, I just started reading a bit of the description in the middle.QuoteSo a dragon is going to fly a bit faster than a winged horse will. A race car mount will move faster than a horse mount.:|
Post by: tuypo1 on August 04, 2014, 01:21:50 am
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1987386669/valor-a-fairy-tale-anthology-about-courageous-hero?ref=home_popular
It exists solely to be some sort of girl power story thinking you need to have certain types of characters in storys just because there's not many of those types is arse backwards thinking.
Although im still holding onto hope that it will be like modern family the producers get funding by saying there making something solely to be inclusive but they are just useing that as a trick to get funding.
Post by: Cheeetar on August 04, 2014, 01:28:03 am
I am depressed this got funded.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1987386669/valor-a-fairy-tale-anthology-about-courageous-hero?ref=home_popular
It exists solely to be some sort of girl power story thinking you need to have certain types of characters in storys just because there's not many of those types is arse backwards thinking.
Although im still holding onto hope that it will be like modern family the producers get funding by saying there making something solely to be inclusive but they are just useing that as a trick to get funding.
I, too, hate children's happiness.
Post by: tuypo1 on August 04, 2014, 01:33:27 am
I am depressed this got funded.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1987386669/valor-a-fairy-tale-anthology-about-courageous-hero?ref=home_popular
It exists solely to be some sort of girl power story thinking you need to have certain types of characters in storys just because there's not many of those types is arse backwards thinking.
Although im still holding onto hope that it will be like modern family the producers get funding by saying there making something solely to be inclusive but they are just useing that as a trick to get funding.
I, too, hate children's happiness.
I love it it tastes like rice
Post by: tuypo1 on August 04, 2014, 01:39:59 am
Post by: NobodyPro on August 04, 2014, 02:57:06 am
All jokes aside Badass Mom who's also a knight reeks of tumblr and stupidityI thought you were overreacting until I saw that "a badass mom, who’s also a knight" was actually a quote from the page. That said, I'm going to be optimistic (or pessimistic, depending on your own view) and say that that kind of thing is a result of knowing your audience and wanting to get funded.
The art looks decent but hopefully that Snow White bookmark is not indicative of the final product. Why is Snow holding that Lv1 Night Elf Dagger? Was she robbing the old crone at knifepoint in this version? It also seems weird to say your paying homage to the strength, resourcefulness, and cunning of female fairy tale protagonists and then use Red Riding Hood and The Little Mermaid in your examples. The former gets eaten alive and rescued by a Deus Ex Machina, while the latter constantly makes bad decisions and ultimately kills herself.
Post by: tuypo1 on August 04, 2014, 03:06:21 am
Edit: and yes those are probably the 2 worst examples they could of used
Post by: Neonivek on August 04, 2014, 03:16:19 am
My personal reason to it is more... "Ehhhhhhhh"
I mean would Beauty and The Beast (Disney version) be improved if in the last act she busted out of that basement herself, rode her horse clad in armor, and beat up Gaston herself... then used a potion she made to cure the beast?
Why not... write your own fairy tales inspired by the elements of the book? Though I guess the answer to that is it isn't marketable.
Usually whenever I see one of these things rewritten to turn the female lead into a badass it tends to be terrible... Right now I am trying to think of an exception...
But I at least sympathies with parents... How much wealth of children's books are there where the female character is the hero determined by her own physical strength and combat skill and not just strength of character, intelligence, and wits (Since there are A FREEKEN metric ton of those...)... You know excluding all those that exists.
Actually on that subject I HAVE seen a book that is like a rewritten fairy tale where they turn a character awesome. It is Thumbelena except she has a sister, specifically her sister was from a weed that her mother was told not to allow to grow, but she did anyway. So she is pretty much bratty, somewhat of a trouble maker, somewhat tomboyish and raggy. Yet when push comes to shove she is the one who solves everything (mostly because thumbelena can't really do much herself) and is a good person at heart. What I actually really love about this story is that by all means our hero is pretty much the "unwanted child" whose mother decided to love anyway, and is rewarded for it. She is set up to be the disaster in the waiting that will ruin everything, but in the end she is what sets things right. It also never really says either Thumbelena or her are "bad" so to speak, and they are never put at odds with each other, so it is a book that teaches that there is more then one way to be a girl.
Add in that she does everything she does in the book, from helping her sister Thumbelena to her mother, because she is an honestly kind and caring person... and she is just the kind of character I love in a protagonist.
Post by: DJ on August 04, 2014, 06:00:41 am
But I at least sympathies with parents... How much wealth of children's books are there where the female character is the hero determined by her own physical strength and combat skill and not just strength of character, intelligence, and wits (Since there are A FREEKEN metric ton of those...)...Well how much children's books are there where any lead character prevails through strength and combat skill? The lead being the underdog who ultimately wins either by cunning or by karma for being such a good-hearted person (example (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_the_Fool)) is pretty much the norm. Even in The Princess Bride the male lead who is ridiculously skilled at everything gets badly handicapped before the final showdown. There's just no tension otherwise, badass swordfighting or whatnot doesn't really work outside of a visual medium like movies.
Post by: tuypo1 on August 04, 2014, 06:10:12 am
But I at least sympathies with parents... How much wealth of children's books are there where the female character is the hero determined by her own physical strength and combat skill and not just strength of character, intelligence, and wits (Since there are A FREEKEN metric ton of those...)...Well how much children's books are there where any lead character prevails through strength and combat skill? The lead being the underdog who ultimately wins either by cunning or by karma for being such a good-hearted person (example (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_the_Fool)) is pretty much the norm. Even in The Princess Bride the male lead who is ridiculously skilled at everything gets badly handicapped before the final showdown. There's just no tension otherwise, badass swordfighting or whatnot doesn't really work outside of a visual medium like movies.
You could have them lift a massive rock or pull back heavy bowstrings
Post by: DJ on August 04, 2014, 06:15:52 am
Post by: Neonivek on August 04, 2014, 06:19:06 am
Or squeeze water from stone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Valiant_Little_Tailor) perhaps? But seriously, is it bad to teach children to rely on brains rather than brawn?
Apparently if they are girls... yes.
Ok yeah that was a bad joke.
I think it is mostly just a reaction to the current burst of strong female roles we have been having lately.
Post by: tuypo1 on August 04, 2014, 06:30:46 am
Ok bad joke butOr squeeze water from stone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Valiant_Little_Tailor) perhaps? But seriously, is it bad to teach children to rely on brains rather than brawn?
Apparently if they are girls... yes.
Ok yeah that was a bad joke.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped
We should teach kids there's nothing wrong with brawn sure brain is usually better but it's not always practicle do you want to teach kids to shame strong people make sure they ostracise supplement obsesed muscle at the expense of all else idiots but not people that are just strong
Post by: miauw62 on August 04, 2014, 06:32:47 am
it was succesfully funded
Post by: Neonivek on August 04, 2014, 06:39:43 am
While her rival is given the worse of the two knights (and honestly that knight makes me question why he is a knight...) because his natural aptitude at being a knight means he doesn't need much help. While early on he is somewhat of a villain, it is shown that it is mostly because he is being pressured to excel and tends to be lectured whenever he loses to Jane... yet is shown to be truly honorable.
I love Jane and the Dragon mind you. It has this way of making every character alive and interesting. Even the most annoying brats of a character (The King's son) has sort of bits of character that makes him intriguing, for example though he is spoiled, he is too soft or kind hearted to enjoy hunting... a hint that he may actually have what it takes to be a good kind king.
But still tuypo1 the issue is mostly "Brawn is good" usually goes without saying, even for a kid. The reason why most things don't go "Brawn is ok" is because that by itself means nothing.
It is about how to use force, when to use it, and for what reason.
Children don't "Grow muscle" (at least most don't) so they don't really deal with that.
Post by: tuypo1 on August 04, 2014, 06:56:16 am
Also Jane and the dragon made me think of potatos and dragons
Post by: Glloyd on August 04, 2014, 09:32:06 am
The cybermatrix got 504 dollars.
it was succesfully funded
God help us all.
Post by: Graknorke on August 13, 2014, 07:03:47 pm
Well how much children's books are there where any lead character prevails through strength and combat skill?Well it's because stuff like that... isn't very interesting.
Like the bits of Achilles' story where he goes around fighting for weeks on end. Those would be of much interest were they to go into great detail of each fight like you would in a fight with a weaker protagonist because, well, of course he's going to win he's invincible. And if the main challenge your protagonist has to overcome is a straight-up fight, having either a victory that has them obviously superior and winning or the fight isn't described because of the former fact, well...
It's not a very satisfying conclusion is it?
Post by: DJ on August 14, 2014, 01:56:45 am
Post by: Graknorke on August 14, 2014, 04:22:41 am
That was kind of my point. You don't really have much clever twists in straight-up fights, and as M Night Shyamalan has taught us, you can't have a good story without a twist.Oh, sorry. Thought you were saying it's a bad thing.
Post by: BlitzDungeoneer on August 14, 2014, 04:25:18 am
The cybermatrix got 504 dollars.Ye gods above. We're doomed.
it was succesfully funded
Post by: MorleyDev on August 14, 2014, 07:15:58 am
Post by: penguinofhonor on August 15, 2014, 12:27:42 am
Highlight: I have no idea whether the last g in "RBCGamingg" is a typo.
Post by: miauw62 on August 15, 2014, 04:42:49 am
Unless he somehow thinks that hosting a site on his personal computer is a good idea.
Post by: Rolan7 on August 15, 2014, 12:38:26 pm
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLo4M1tlpv9rtbiNA41CWgwIJZSTjozVyp
I thought of it because one of them is basically the same thing as the above, a guy who wants money to buy gaming equipment to stream.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLo4M1tlpv9rtbiNA41CWgwIJZSTjozVyp&v=TpYkKuKGLbw
The best part was the $200 reward: "Have your face as a watermark during gameplay for the entirety of my streaming career.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Graknorke on August 15, 2014, 12:47:19 pm
Post by: nenjin on August 15, 2014, 02:19:14 pm
Post by: Teneb on August 15, 2014, 02:30:58 pm
Kickstarter: Ask other people to give you money, to live your dream of not having a real job.I'd say streaming for a living is a real job, just like comedians, actors and other kinds of entertainment. Asking for money to start it is about as scummy as you can get though.
Post by: Rolan7 on August 15, 2014, 02:49:03 pm
Post by: nenjin on August 15, 2014, 02:58:44 pm
Kickstarter: Ask other people to give you money, to live your dream of not having a real job.I'd say streaming for a living is a real job, just like comedians, actors and other kinds of entertainment. Asking for money to start it is about as scummy as you can get though.
I disagree, but it's just a personal opinion. So many people think being a streamer is something to aspire to now. Lots of kids once imagined themselves as astronauts or firemen or, you know, something that took skill. Now because of the cult of youtube personalities we live in, lots of people aspire to getting paid to play a game and have people listen to them, and there is zero barrier to entry. (Other than being broke, not actually working for a living and needing people to give you money up front so you can live your dream of recording yourself and begging for likes and ad dollars, and the fact there are tens of thousand of similarly unskilled dreamers out there to compete against.) A whole generation of squeaky-voiced kids growing up trying to brand their online handle.
I'm biased though. I generally find LPs unwatchable, short of the occasional short clip or a guy with a hilarious Swedish accent. I've never followed or liked a Youtube or Twitch page. About the only person I watch even semi-consistently while they babble about video games is Yahtzee, and if his reviews took the form of him playing a game live and jabbering about it, I probably wouldn't ever watch them either.
Post by: penguinofhonor on August 15, 2014, 03:03:48 pm
Post by: Draco18s on August 15, 2014, 03:30:30 pm
Oh no, kids might have career goals that are enjoyable and achievable. How dare they.
Its ok. Soon, Humans Need Not Apply (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU).
Post by: Sergarr on August 15, 2014, 03:30:53 pm
Post by: nenjin on August 15, 2014, 03:39:34 pm
Oh no, kids might have career goals that are enjoyable and achievable. How dare they.
Except it's not just kids. It's young adults and adults as well. It's not that I'm against people having a fun job. But it's a depressing trend to me, considering we're the lowest ranked among post-industrial nations for math and science, and it seems like the #1 thing we still do best is entertainment. Anyways, this is probably better saved for another thread.
Post by: MorleyDev on August 15, 2014, 05:06:46 pm
But I don't know of that many kids who actually aspire to be a streamer professionally. Oddly enough, it seems the LPers and the like who actually are fun and interesting tend to start off just seeing it as a hobby, something to do and if they get money and attention or to practice their editing and film making skills hey even better. Probably something to do with them not coming across as desperate attention whores as much xD
Asking for money to do it via kickstarter is just silly though. We have Patreon (http://www.patreon.com/) for that :) Wonder how many "when patreon goes wrong" we can find...
Post by: Karlito on August 15, 2014, 06:37:43 pm
Asking for money to do it via kickstarter is just silly though. We have Patreon (http://www.patreon.com/) for that :) Wonder how many "when patreon goes wrong" we can find...
I'm sure you could find a few, though since Patreon is for content that's ongoing, presumably anyone paying a creator is actually enjoying the thing being made.
Post by: penguinofhonor on August 15, 2014, 07:12:18 pm
Post by: Fniff on August 15, 2014, 07:13:46 pm
Post by: Sonlirain on August 15, 2014, 08:05:31 pm
I mean you can literally just become one out of thin air... i mean look at pewdiepie. What did he do to become so popular?
His first video is literally 2 minutes of dicking around a glitched out zombie while talking in swedish 75% of the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jeJbdVl2jI&list=UU-lHJZR3Gqxm24_Vd_AJ5Yw
It's nothing special at all... maybe the voice quality is better than most but back then he was just a random guy posting something on youtube.
And now? Enough subscribers to make his own country...
Long story short. You need luck to get noticed by people at large and charisma to make them subscribe... because quite frankly breathing at the mic and speaking broken english won't net you any subscribers/fans unless you somehow do it in a funny enough way.
Post by: Neonivek on August 15, 2014, 10:37:05 pm
That doesn't stop anyone from trying to get paid.
Yeah but I cannot think of many people who start up patreons for someone who has nothing.
Post by: NobodyPro on August 31, 2014, 10:36:03 pm
This is amazing. Anyone who wants to kickstart a game should look at this.
Post by: Graknorke on September 01, 2014, 08:51:10 am
Bullrush (British Bulldog) 2-D Retro Arcade Game/App (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1669916203/bullrush-british-bulldog-2-d-retro-arcade-game-app)Does this really take that much money? I can't imagine a videogame adaptation of Bulldog being particularly complex.
This is amazing. Anyone who wants to kickstart a game should look at this.
Post by: Parsely on September 01, 2014, 02:39:33 pm
This person sounds a bit- Just the way some of- Ehhhhhh.. :vBullrush (British Bulldog) 2-D Retro Arcade Game/App (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1669916203/bullrush-british-bulldog-2-d-retro-arcade-game-app)Does this really take that much money? I can't imagine a videogame adaptation of Bulldog being particularly complex.
This is amazing. Anyone who wants to kickstart a game should look at this.
Quote
Apart from being very addictive for developers, there isn't really many risks and challenges involved as every game developer I have approached has said this 2-D type is easy to make. Some of the prices quoted were a bit ridiculous however, the $30k target should see all development costs and reward all pledge commitments with a little change for advertising.What does this even mean.
e:
Quote
I have yet to choose a developer to award this cool project to however anyone willing to show me a sample of your work in one of the levels would greatly increase your chances of finalizing a deal.
Quote
The game has also banned at schools since the late 1990's because of over protective parents which is the reason we should bring this fun activity back in the form of an app/game.
Post by: Graknorke on September 01, 2014, 04:10:17 pm
-snip-Wait, he's not developing it?
Then... what is he doing?
Post by: Parsely on September 01, 2014, 04:26:30 pm
He's asking for money to pay someone to develop his vision I guess..?-snip-Wait, he's not developing it?
Then... what is he doing?
Post by: Draco18s on September 01, 2014, 04:56:26 pm
Post by: Sergarr on September 01, 2014, 04:57:07 pm
He's raising money in order to pay someone else to do all the work.So, basically, Your World.
Post by: scriver on September 01, 2014, 04:59:50 pm
Post by: Graknorke on September 01, 2014, 06:42:14 pm
His vision that most amateur programmers could make in an hour or so? Really I have seen more complex things made in Scratch. This is not a 30000 anything project.He's asking for money to pay someone to develop his vision I guess..?-snip-Wait, he's not developing it?
Then... what is he doing?
Post by: nenjin on September 01, 2014, 07:40:36 pm
Post by: Draco18s on September 01, 2014, 08:22:08 pm
He's raising money in order to pay someone else to do all the work.So, basically, Your World.
No, on the scale of 1 - 10 (10 is just stupid), this is a 7. Potato Salad is only about a 2. Your World was an 11.
Your World was dumb on more than "I'm going to hire someone to do it" it was also a poorly conceived idea that wasn't even internally consistent, plus bad marketing. Bullrush is "I want to make someone else's game, except I'm going to pay another someone else to make it." And then horrendously stupid reward tiers. Seriously, read their $1000 pledge level aloud without laughing or confusing someone.
Post by: Draco18s on September 01, 2014, 08:32:59 pm
Potato salad wasn't stupid, just pointless. Then everyone wanted in on it and it got stupid.
Hence a "2"
Post by: alway on September 01, 2014, 08:36:00 pm
I've seen numerous projects no less silly and ambitious than Your World along those premises, including one guy who tried to get devs for his version of Your World from our university department's unofficial student facebook page (and who was promptly ignored by everyone after the details about the project were made clear).
All in all, they're one of the most innocuous forms of this sort of project, as they are really obvious to everyone familiar with game development, and so can be avoided quite easily. So yeah, Your World is actually quite common, and certainly not an 11.
Post by: Draco18s on September 01, 2014, 10:23:37 pm
Just because it's high on the stupid end of the spectrum doesn't mean it's not common. Remember:
Quote from: Robert A. Heinlein
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
Post by: penguinofhonor on September 02, 2014, 07:36:02 am
Post by: MarcAFK on September 02, 2014, 08:29:12 am
And then horrendously stupid reward tiers. Seriously, read their $1000 pledge level aloud without laughing or confusing someone.What's wrong with a $500 coffee mug?
Edit: Back in school we called this game "red rover" ,same rules, generally we tackled rather than tagged.
Post by: Sergarr on September 02, 2014, 09:54:22 am
Like gravity. Oh wait, that already exists in real life *facepalm*
Post by: Putnam on September 02, 2014, 10:44:02 am
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on September 02, 2014, 03:39:54 pm
Not really, no.
Post by: BlitzDungeoneer on September 02, 2014, 03:46:00 pm
-Be able to do at least half-decent graphics.
-Know what paperwork you'll need to fill out.
-Know how to fill out said paperwork.
For example, if that money was for, let's say, hiring an accountant + setup costs + startup costs + license for some graphic/picture/whatever editor/maker/whatever + paying the coders then sure, I can actually see him needing that much. But...
Is any of that mentioned in the Kickstarter.
Post by: Parsely on September 02, 2014, 03:48:09 pm
Nothing wrong with idea guys if they pick up the slack elsewhere. A software project is more than just the code. Question is, does this particular kickstarter imbue me with confidence that the project lead will be able to handle everything sans the code and get a coder or a team of coders on board to do the coding?Yeah, IMO there's nothing inherently wrong with this person's role/goal, but this particular guy clearly has no idea what the hell he's doing. Don't you normally recruit a team then ask for backing? Not that this is the sort of thing you'd need a whole team of coders to do. Maybe I should go program this for him and take all his money.
Not really, no.
Post by: Mattk50 on September 02, 2014, 03:57:59 pm
I say if you want to be the idea guy, you must also try to pick up ideas which are simple in rules but complex in results.The easiest way to do this is to mix a lot of simple things in interesting ways. Does make balance harder tho.
Like gravity. Oh wait, that already exists in real life *facepalm*
Post by: Sergarr on September 02, 2014, 04:41:10 pm
You can always try using a rubber band feedback on a few key parameters you want to keep in check.I say if you want to be the idea guy, you must also try to pick up ideas which are simple in rules but complex in results.The easiest way to do this is to mix a lot of simple things in interesting ways. Does make balance harder tho.
Like gravity. Oh wait, that already exists in real life *facepalm*
Or make the game single-player only. Master of Magic did that, it was unbalanced as hell, people still considered it the best fantasy strategy ever made.
Post by: Cthulhu on September 04, 2014, 01:55:41 pm
That's hard work though and most idea guys are allergic to that part of the project. The work part. Throwing everything you want to see in a video game together in a mash isn't design. And you'd probably need some serious clout to assume a role like that professionally, clout you'd get serving in more roles than just that.
Post by: anzki4 on September 04, 2014, 05:12:56 pm
Bullrush is "I want to make someone else's game, except I'm going to pay another someone else to make it." And then horrendously stupid reward tiers. Seriously, read their $1000 pledge level aloud without laughing or confusing someone.Difference between $500 and $1000 tiers: a coffee mug. That's some value.
EDIT: 'Twas mentioned already. Oh well.
Post by: Draco18s on September 04, 2014, 06:42:44 pm
Bullrush is "I want to make someone else's game, except I'm going to pay another someone else to make it." And then horrendously stupid reward tiers. Seriously, read their $1000 pledge level aloud without laughing or confusing someone.Difference between $500 and $1000 tiers: a coffee mug. That's some value.
'twas my point. Most Kickstarters have the mug at like the $50 or $100 level. $1000 is like "all of the things and I'll fly you out to me and buy you lunch."
Post by: Moghjubar on September 04, 2014, 07:00:59 pm
Bullrush is "I want to make someone else's game, except I'm going to pay another someone else to make it." And then horrendously stupid reward tiers. Seriously, read their $1000 pledge level aloud without laughing or confusing someone.Difference between $500 and $1000 tiers: a coffee mug. That's some value.
'twas my point. Most Kickstarters have the mug at like the $50 or $100 level. $1000 is like "all of the things and I'll fly you out to me and buy you lunch."
Obviously, with the recent potato salad thing, maybe just selling lunch with yourself is the best idea for kickstarters.
Post by: nenjin on September 04, 2014, 07:06:53 pm
Post by: Cthulhu on September 04, 2014, 07:29:15 pm
That's really how I see kickstarter as a whole. Like, if you try to kickstart a minimalist wallet you can't possibly be coming out of anything except the baldest cynicism.
Post by: MarcAFK on September 04, 2014, 09:58:16 pm
Reward tier 1 costs a nugget and you will have my thanks on this page.
Tier 2 is an ingot and you will be mentioned in a sign located at the base of the structure.
Tier 3 costs 8 ingots and you will be mentioned on your own sign attached to a key part of the structure.
Tier 4 costs a diamond and an entire floor will be named after you.
Tier 5 is 8 diamonds and you get a floor and a name tagged
Tier 6 is 1,000 diamond blocks and you get a
Stretch goals are:
500d I'll build a rail station between the structure and the nearest town.
1000d I'll build another structure exactly the same as the first at that town.
2000d I'll make the structure from bedrock to skylevel.
5000d I'll build a working computer in minecraft that can load the whole server and then build the structure in that.
50,000d at this stretch goal i'll involve nanoscale quantum tunneling superstring vacuum processing.....
Post by: anzki4 on September 05, 2014, 03:13:00 am
Post by: FearfulJesuit on September 06, 2014, 10:19:46 pm
Post by: Karlito on September 06, 2014, 10:38:14 pm
Go green and help this guy invent a desktop app that replaces your old adding machine! (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/923916674/totally-green-adding-machine) I wonder why nobody's ever thought of this before.
What's more
Quote
There are no foreseen risks or challenges to completing this project. With the application functionality finished, the major effort going forward is describing that functionality in a User Guide and then incorporating the guide into the program's help structure. No new technology is needed.There isn't actually anything to kickstart! The project is already completed. Also, a software key costs $75.
EDIT:Hell, you can buy it right now on his website. (http://www.2goodsoftware.com/myown10-key_buy.htm)
Post by: Draco18s on September 06, 2014, 11:04:32 pm
EDIT:Hell, you can buy it right now on his website. (http://www.2goodsoftware.com/myown10-key_buy.htm)
You forgot the bit where an activation key is only $10 on said website.
Post by: nenjin on September 08, 2014, 04:31:27 pm
Post by: Graknorke on September 08, 2014, 05:14:39 pm
Post by: penguinofhonor on September 09, 2014, 01:35:17 pm
Post by: BlitzDungeoneer on September 09, 2014, 01:40:06 pm
Post by: penguinofhonor on September 09, 2014, 01:44:59 pm
Post by: Cthulhu on September 13, 2014, 11:14:40 am
Quote
Once the company that owes Pokemon gives you a warning we will have to shut it down immediately. If this ever happens (Hopefully not) we will try our best to continue production no matter what.
Post by: MarcAFK on September 13, 2014, 11:32:53 am
Post by: Rez on September 13, 2014, 10:18:59 pm
Quote
Edgertronic Slow Motion Camera
£3,200 + Shipping From America
This has just been recorded to be the cheapest High-Speed (Slo-Mo) camera on the market. It still seems pricey but this will be the cheapest High-Speed camera you will find for atleast another few years. We would need this camera to film slow motion shots (Obviously) for example: I have a scene where Ash gets attacked by ...... then an explosion happens behind him which sends him flying. We decided that this would look best in High-Speed. Of course that would not be the only scene with High-Speed we have planned about 4-5 other short scenes with High-Speed.
EXPLOSIONS?! We got ourselves a summer blockbuster producer here.
Quote
When I heard the news I thought that one day a High-Quality Live Action Film will be released, I never thought it would be me trying to produce a Live-Action Pokemon Flick.
wwwwwww
This is actually sad, on a couple of levels:
Quote
Believe me or not but for over 2 & A Half Years I have been working on a script for a Pokemon movie & been studying success for an Kickstarter project. So if I do not get funded properly that will be over 2 Years of my life I will never be able to get back.
That doesn't stop me from grinning though.
Post by: MrWiggles on September 15, 2014, 05:55:00 pm
----
As far as he legality goes. Its totally up to Game Freaks and Nintendo. Japanese culture, is far more lenient with fan projects of their works then in the west. Pokemon is no exception. Tonnes of for profit unofficial magna exist for pokemon, and not just porn. Same for web based games too.
But yea, this thing is defiantly an unambiguous theft of IP for their project. And that line about not wanting to get a C&D demonstrate quite clearly that they are aware of it. So they're already asking for couple hundred thousand dollars, why not also get a license for the Pokemon while you're at it.
Post by: MrWiggles on September 15, 2014, 08:10:30 pm
Why do I need to donate 25 bucks to get weekly updates? If I donated a dollar, I am at least a bit interested.
Post by: Draco18s on September 16, 2014, 09:41:52 am
and the various programs they want, are, to my understanding, all legit prices
Question:
Why do they need....
- Dreamweaver (this is an HTML editing program)
- Flash and FlashBuilder (they're doing a live action film, not 10 minute cell shaded animation, plus both of these do the same thing)
- Illustrator (2D vector graphics for print)
- Fireworks (image editing for websites)
- InDesign (design and layout for print)
- Lightwave and Maya and CINEMA 4D (all of these do the same thing)
Post by: Squeegy on September 16, 2014, 09:50:15 am
Post by: Draco18s on September 16, 2014, 10:17:50 am
I'm a little worried about my upcoming Kickstarter, but I'm comforted by the thought that it can't be worse than these.
Protip: does anyone aside from you, the people you're working with, close friends and relatives know you're working on a project that will be on Kickstarter "soon"?
If not, get some. Kickstarter is not when you do your advertising campaign. Start the advertising first and tell people "hey, follow my progress at [blog/facebook/wherever] and when the Kickstarter goes live, you'll see it there."
Get the enthusiasic following first, put it on Kickstarter later. Unless you get picked up by some super popular unrelated media person, no one will see your Kickstarter, and it will fail.
Post by: Squeegy on September 16, 2014, 10:40:46 am
Post by: Draco18s on September 16, 2014, 11:29:10 am
Yes, I'm rather aware of that. I'm weighing my options, but I don't really have a lot of connections and obviously I don't have money to spend on advertising. I'm hoping to have everything sorted out within a month and be ready to go live. In the meantime, you can check it out (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/771647680/180330746?token=c3e30433) if you like.
Aside from having run into a couple of guys who did something like this before--the name of their game escapes me, I spent all of about an hour seated next to them at a convention*--I'm a little bothered by the "statless system" that still has...well...stats. In order for things like a bell curve of success to be meaningful, the character needs to have some kind of recorded statistic that indicates how that bell curve applies to them. If they were a baker before being drafted, then their skill at Bakery should succeed more often than their skill at Archery (which they've never done before). And the only way to model that is through stats. Anyway, you haven't explained how your statless system accurately models medieval combat using the vague mechanics presented. For the roleplaying crowd, this kind of thing is important to them when examining a new system.
On money:
Indicate some rough budget that indicates how the indicated goal value will be used. A "40% of the money goes towards art, 10% towards Kickstarter fees, 25% towards xyz" etc. It doesn't need to be a perfect breakdown, but there are some known costs and figures that can be represented. The rest can be approximated. People aren't interested in knowing that the cover is going to be commissioned for "$600" while interior images will be "$120 each," just that "Y percent will go towards art." People backing a project want to see that you've at least picked a reasonable goal and that the costs you've put forward are reasonable.
Beyond that, you're going to encounter sheer resistance just in the market you're trying to penetrate: Dungeons & Dragons dominates the table-top roleplaying market. Each step down the popularity ladder is something like one fifth as large as the one above it. And there's a reason for this: it is incredibly difficult to get a gaming group to try a new system and these crowds are incredibly stingy with their cash, unwilling to invest in a system that they cannot or will not play. I've been trying for months, almost a year now, to get my group to try a game of Our Last Best Hope (http://www.magpiegames.com/our-last-best-hope/).
Yes, you're aiming this for an online crowd, but even so, it is just as difficult to get a group together for an online, realtime, game as it is for an in-person game. As evidenced by the GURPS game I'm a part of. The GM had to cancel for this coming Saturday due to work being a bunch of incompetent morons, several people have issues with next Saturday. It's already been 2 weeks since the last game, going out another week to Oct 4th makes it five weeks between sessions. If you're aiming for play-by-post, your style of game is not condusive to it: combat in a play-by-one-post-a-day is generally either non existent or resolved in around three posts (attack, counter, cleanup) so that the story--the part everyone's there for--can continue in a timely manner.
*He did explain their hit-location system though, which was pretty cool, and even demonstrated how you could hit someone's lower back using a sword and attacking from their front. It's basically momentum of a 'missed' swing passing over the shoulder and coming down against the back, with a slice as the attacker pulls back to a guard position again.
Post by: Parsely on September 16, 2014, 11:35:56 am
Post by: Draco18s on September 16, 2014, 12:20:36 pm
Are you talking about statless systems in reference to Squeegy's Foot Soldiers..? Because IIRC Squeegy's got numbers and stats coming out of his ears. There's a good amount of stuff in that manual of his.
Yes.
Quote
What is Foot Soldiers?
Classless: In Foot Soldiers, you are not typecast. Like in real life, what you are good at is what you pursue, and no two characters must end up alike.
Statless: Human beings are not defined by statistics, but the strength of their initiative, the skills they hone, and the favor of God.
Accurate: The book includes a detailed description of the setting, written by a British archeologist, and the equipment is accurate to the time period.
Post by: Parsely on September 16, 2014, 01:12:49 pm
This is my sheet from one of his Foot Soldiers games. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AniyPddpIU-sdFd2bHpwWlBtTWdzSUVoTUR0a1lrQUE&usp=sharing#gid=0Are you talking about statless systems in reference to Squeegy's Foot Soldiers..? Because IIRC Squeegy's got numbers and stats coming out of his ears. There's a good amount of stuff in that manual of his.
Yes.QuoteWhat is Foot Soldiers?
Classless: In Foot Soldiers, you are not typecast. Like in real life, what you are good at is what you pursue, and no two characters must end up alike.
Statless: Human beings are not defined by statistics, but the strength of their initiative, the skills they hone, and the favor of God.
Accurate: The book includes a detailed description of the setting, written by a British archeologist, and the equipment is accurate to the time period.
Those aren't stats? I've got attack/evasion dice, HP, XP, movement speed, weight, measured damage..
Post by: Draco18s on September 16, 2014, 01:19:07 pm
Post by: Parsely on September 16, 2014, 02:53:24 pm
Then your description is wrong. You, yourself, described the game as statless, which I quoted from your Kickstarter page.I don't have a kickstarter, that belongs to Squeegy..
Post by: Draco18s on September 16, 2014, 03:29:09 pm
Post by: Squeegy on September 16, 2014, 05:04:22 pm
Anyway, you've hit on all sixes, but there's no way to break down the budget into percentages because while I have in mind some people I could contact to provide these services, I can't say for sure exactly how much they will cost. I don't know how much art I will need. I don't know how much it will cost, because prices vary based on complexity. I think that sort of decision is better left up to the graphic designer, who I am paying $100 to do a mockup of a sample page that could be from the final product as well as some title cards and Kickstarter graphics.
I've played Foot Soldiers in both real time and play by post. I've never heard of anyone condensing a battle into three posts (I think you may be overestimating how much your experience represents that of all RPG players). But I appreciate the feedback.
Post by: Draco18s on September 16, 2014, 05:34:37 pm
I've played Foot Soldiers in both real time and play by post. I've never heard of anyone condensing a battle into three posts (I think you may be overestimating how much your experience represents that of all RPG players). But I appreciate the feedback.
You're right here. But for someone like me, at the table combat is fun and "social interaction" is hard. But online, in either real time text or asynchronous text, combat is boring and slow, and "social interaction" is the meat I savor.
I've done incredibly little play-by-post, mostly because the game collapses less than a dozen posts in between 5 people. But I can't imagine how a typical combat (that I'm used to with minis) could ever be done reasonably on a forum.
Post by: MarcAFK on September 17, 2014, 07:30:06 am
Having some of this stuff automated or at least handled by software would free up the gamemasters time to concentrate on the plot and roleplaying, having a chat applett built into the thread might help keep the game in order too.
Edit: It might be possible to set things up so that the whole game doesn't grind down to a miserable halt in the event of a single person being unavailable for a few days. It's not the end of the world if a single player isn't able to participate in combat, they could return after a few days and add their input to events that have passed, add their own flavour and roleplay etc.
Post by: Squeegy on September 17, 2014, 07:57:14 am
I've been thinking about what happens to forum based roleplaying,it might be interesting to have a forum dedicated specifically to roleplaying, where the gamemaster has a host of options to use the forum itself to keep track of stats, maps, inventories etc.Kickstart it, man.
Having some of this stuff automated or at least handled by software would free up the gamemasters time to concentrate on the plot and roleplaying, having a chat applett built into the thread might help keep the game in order too.
Edit: It might be possible to set things up so that the whole game doesn't grind down to a miserable halt in the event of a single person being unavailable for a few days. It's not the end of the world if a single player isn't able to participate in combat, they could return after a few days and add their input to events that have passed, add their own flavour and roleplay etc.
Post by: BlitzDungeoneer on September 17, 2014, 08:25:57 am
Post by: Draco18s on September 17, 2014, 10:36:08 am
Been tried before, search up Kelethor Gaming.
Also this (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1092806495/admoxin-a-new-way-to-role-play).
Post by: kaian-a-coel on September 17, 2014, 01:33:25 pm
Also this (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1092806495/admoxin-a-new-way-to-role-play).Posting this on /tg/, they'll love it. And by that I mean they'll absolutely hate it, but they'll love hating it.
Also there is apparently a lot of roleplaying forums, but they're mostly awful. My sources may not be the most reliable however.
Post by: miauw62 on September 17, 2014, 01:36:32 pm
Link the thread, please. Even if it's going to be dead soon.Also this (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1092806495/admoxin-a-new-way-to-role-play).Posting this on /tg/, they'll love it. And by that I mean they'll absolutely hate it, but they'll love hating it.
Also there is apparently a lot of roleplaying forums, but they're mostly awful. My sources may not be the most reliable however.
Post by: kaian-a-coel on September 17, 2014, 01:45:40 pm
Post by: penguinofhonor on September 17, 2014, 04:17:23 pm
So this is basically a Forum Games and Roleplaying forum with a furry theme, built-in tools so I don't have to switch tabs to my dice site, and random scripted events that affect you no matter what game you're playing? And to compensate for this being an obviously bad mechanic, there is an overly detailed opt-out system so you can decide exactly how much you want to opt out of them.
Also I like how his example "full immersion" event is a big war between nations where your character gets drafted. If I'm interpreting this correctly, I could be playing a forum game with a few people, and between turns my character gets drafted and fights a war and gets sent back and I get summaries of all the events that happened. That's definitely immersive.
Post by: Draco18s on September 17, 2014, 04:23:28 pm
Also I like how his example "full immersion" event is a big war between nations where your character gets drafted. If I'm interpreting this correctly, I could be playing a forum game with a few people, and between turns my character gets drafted and fights a war and gets sent back and I get summaries of all the events that happened. That's definitely immersive.
...something like that, I haven't figured out how it would be any better than another forum RP system I've seen.
Post by: Fniff on September 17, 2014, 04:32:48 pm
They need ten grand for a project most coders could do with just a server and minimal expense.
Post by: Graknorke on September 17, 2014, 05:11:16 pm
That's not a PbP made into a videogame. That's a MUSH. They are basically making a MUSH. MUSHes are MUDs (Multiplayer text adventures). It's like a chat room roleplay but in the guise of a text adventure. It's not uncommon, nor difficult. Hell, I even played a MUSH that is basically the same as Admoxin. Latitude, which was entirely dead when I showed up.But were any of those furry themed?
They need ten grand for a project most coders could do with just a server and minimal expense.
Probably yes.
Post by: Fniff on September 17, 2014, 05:12:17 pm
Can you imagine how embarrassing it is to be late to a party you didn't even want to go to?
Post by: The Darkling Wolf on September 17, 2014, 05:50:21 pm
Post by: Fniff on September 17, 2014, 06:37:14 pm
Post by: Graknorke on September 17, 2014, 07:17:10 pm
I spent a really long night (It actually seems like a year in retrospect) looking for quality non-medieval multiplayer browser games. They don't exist. I can sympathize with your plight.Really? I know there's at least a few RTS type ones that are set in modern or near future.
In my memory was freesky online that I am still salty about the takedown of.
Post by: MrWiggles on September 17, 2014, 07:29:01 pm
That's not a PbP made into a videogame. That's a MUSH. They are basically making a MUSH. MUSHes are MUDs (Multiplayer text adventures). It's like a chat room roleplay but in the guise of a text adventure. It's not uncommon, nor difficult. Hell, I even played a MUSH that is basically the same as Admoxin. Latitude, which was entirely dead when I showed up.
They need ten grand for a project most coders could do with just a server and minimal expense.
I've been Admin'ing and making mu*s for 10 years. Currently making one based on the Dresden Files and SCP as my personal project and helping with a few others. I was even getting paid for it.
Post by: Fniff on September 17, 2014, 07:36:11 pm
I was actually looking at that. It is a cool project and I should probably check it out. I love urban fantasy. As a MU* developer, what's your opinion on Admoxin? Would you say it is a MUSH or am I mistaken?That's not a PbP made into a videogame. That's a MUSH. They are basically making a MUSH. MUSHes are MUDs (Multiplayer text adventures). It's like a chat room roleplay but in the guise of a text adventure. It's not uncommon, nor difficult. Hell, I even played a MUSH that is basically the same as Admoxin. Latitude, which was entirely dead when I showed up.
They need ten grand for a project most coders could do with just a server and minimal expense.
I've been Admin'ing and making mu*s for 10 years. Currently making one based on the Dresden Files and SCP as my personal project and helping with a few others. I was even getting paid for it.
Those RTS ones don't really appeal to me. What was Freesky like?I spent a really long night (It actually seems like a year in retrospect) looking for quality non-medieval multiplayer browser games. They don't exist. I can sympathize with your plight.Really? I know there's at least a few RTS type ones that are set in modern or near future.
In my memory was freesky online that I am still salty about the takedown of.
Post by: Aklyon on September 17, 2014, 07:47:52 pm
That sounds pretty dang cool, does it have a name?That's not a PbP made into a videogame. That's a MUSH. They are basically making a MUSH. MUSHes are MUDs (Multiplayer text adventures). It's like a chat room roleplay but in the guise of a text adventure. It's not uncommon, nor difficult. Hell, I even played a MUSH that is basically the same as Admoxin. Latitude, which was entirely dead when I showed up.
They need ten grand for a project most coders could do with just a server and minimal expense.
I've been Admin'ing and making mu*s for 10 years. Currently making one based on the Dresden Files and SCP as my personal project and helping with a few others. I was even getting paid for it.
Post by: Draco18s on September 17, 2014, 11:02:46 pm
Think how bad I feel every time I find a nice MUD and it turns out to be human themed.
That was one issue. ::)
The issue I had with muds was following "the simple path to the east."
[E]ast, [E]ast, [E]ast, [E]ast, [N]orthEast, [E]ast, [E]ast, [E]ast, [ U]p The Hill, [E]ast, [E]ast, [ S]outhEast, [ S]outhEast [ S]outh, [ S]outhEast, [E]ast, [E]ast, [E]ast, [E]ast, [A]rrive At Destination
It was a freaking nightmare to get anywhere. And god forbid if anything happened along the way.
Post by: Squeegy on September 18, 2014, 12:02:41 am
MUDs that use anything but cardinal directions (like 'enter' or 'arrive') are for fools. For everything else, there'sThink how bad I feel every time I find a nice MUD and it turns out to be human themed.
That was one issue. ::)
The issue I had with muds was following "the simple path to the east."
[E]ast, [E]ast, [E]ast, [E]ast, [N]orthEast, [E]ast, [E]ast, [E]ast, [ U]p The Hill, [E]ast, [E]ast, [ S]outhEast, [ S]outhEast [ S]outh, [ S]outhEast, [E]ast, [E]ast, [E]ast, [E]ast, [A]rrive At Destination
It was a freaking nightmare to get anywhere. And god forbid if anything happened along the way.
run 4e ne 3e u 2e 2se s se 4e
Bind it to an alias, and bam.
Post by: MrWiggles on September 18, 2014, 01:51:33 am
and the various programs they want, are, to my understanding, all legit prices
Question:
Why do they need....They also don't have a compositing software suite. Like, at all. Unless one of their video editing programs can do it, they're going to have trouble. Nuke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuke_%28software%29) is a program that all it does is compositing (and does it very well) and costs several thousand dollars. Photoshop ain't gonna cut it.
- Dreamweaver (this is an HTML editing program)
- Flash and FlashBuilder (they're doing a live action film, not 10 minute cell shaded animation, plus both of these do the same thing)
- Illustrator (2D vector graphics for print)
- Fireworks (image editing for websites)
- InDesign (design and layout for print)
- Lightwave and Maya and CINEMA 4D (all of these do the same thing)
Well, because its generally cheaper to get the whole kit and koobudle then buying the individual pieces. They could also just be using some of those applications. Photoshop and Illustrator for pre production, posters, other things. Flash, is just part of the kit. They also may be doing all their websites in house too. And the 3d modeler do similar things, but they dont do everything the same. Like if memory servers Maya has really great inverse kinetic animation rigging. Lightwave better with particle effects. I dont know squat about cinema 4d. As for not having compositing software. They didnt list the stuff they already had, and their fancy expensive video editing mcdohicky might just do find for composition.
----
I was actually looking at that. It is a cool project and I should probably check it out. I love urban fantasy. As a MU* developer, what's your opinion on Admoxin? Would you say it is a MUSH or am I mistaken?That's not a PbP made into a videogame. That's a MUSH. They are basically making a MUSH. MUSHes are MUDs (Multiplayer text adventures). It's like a chat room roleplay but in the guise of a text adventure. It's not uncommon, nor difficult. Hell, I even played a MUSH that is basically the same as Admoxin. Latitude, which was entirely dead when I showed up.
They need ten grand for a project most coders could do with just a server and minimal expense.
I've been Admin'ing and making mu*s for 10 years. Currently making one based on the Dresden Files and SCP as my personal project and helping with a few others. I was even getting paid for it.
If its as mechanically and rules heavy as the kickstarter suggests. It would probably benefit pretty greatly from a mu* like environment. And I am aware of a few PbP games that turned into a mu*. It'd be a bitch to migrate the players over. And you'd lose a noticeable number of them. As PhB is great for drop in drop out RPing. A mu*, not so much.
That sounds pretty dang cool, does it have a name?That's not a PbP made into a videogame. That's a MUSH. They are basically making a MUSH. MUSHes are MUDs (Multiplayer text adventures). It's like a chat room roleplay but in the guise of a text adventure. It's not uncommon, nor difficult. Hell, I even played a MUSH that is basically the same as Admoxin. Latitude, which was entirely dead when I showed up.
They need ten grand for a project most coders could do with just a server and minimal expense.
I've been Admin'ing and making mu*s for 10 years. Currently making one based on the Dresden Files and SCP as my personal project and helping with a few others. I was even getting paid for it.
Navitas: The City Limits. Its in my signature.
Post by: Graknorke on September 18, 2014, 01:56:19 am
What was Freesky like?It was an RTS one, but had a really nice style/theme going on, and all units were airships which you could customise how they were outfitted and stuff with researched components, so they could be specialised for doing one thing or another. And unlike a lot of the strategy-type browser games the world was persistent rather than round-based. If you got conquered in a war the winner would receive a percentage of the loser's income every day or whatever either for a month or until the loser managed to get together enough force to overthrow the winner.
Hardly any microtransactions either. You could buy some resource or other to speed up building construction and upgrades, but that was it as far as I remember.
It has a sequel which has no sense of individuality, style, or tact. It looks like all the other farmville-but-with-fighting games out there.
Post by: MarcAFK on September 18, 2014, 07:50:44 am
That sounds like a great idea, something different at least.That's not a PbP made into a videogame. That's a MUSH. They are basically making a MUSH. MUSHes are MUDs (Multiplayer text adventures). It's like a chat room roleplay but in the guise of a text adventure. It's not uncommon, nor difficult. Hell, I even played a MUSH that is basically the same as Admoxin. Latitude, which was entirely dead when I showed up.
They need ten grand for a project most coders could do with just a server and minimal expense.
I've been Admin'ing and making mu*s for 10 years. Currently making one based on the Dresden Files and SCP as my personal project and helping with a few others. I was even getting paid for it.
Post by: Draco18s on September 18, 2014, 09:22:59 am
The issue I had with muds was following "the simple path to the east."MUDs that use anything but cardinal directions (like 'enter' or 'arrive') are for fools. For everything else, there's
[E]ast, [E]ast, [E]ast, [E]ast, [N]orthEast, [E]ast, [E]ast, [E]ast, [ U]p The Hill, [E]ast, [E]ast, [ S]outhEast, [ S]outhEast [ S]outh, [ S]outhEast, [E]ast, [E]ast, [E]ast, [E]ast, [A]rrive At Destination
It was a freaking nightmare to get anywhere. And god forbid if anything happened along the way.MasterCard"run":
run 4e ne 3e u 2e 2se s se 4e
Bind it to an alias, and bam.
[a]rrive was mostly a joke. But there was one M* that I played (for like an hour) and it literally had 30 instructions moving from one major location to the other. While you could macro that, that was ONE road. It went from the tutorial area to the first main city. If it was mapped to real life, the path was like a mile long (the game contained enough "space" to functionally have multiple nation-states1). And ever single bend and divergent point into bushes, etc. had a stopping point with a two paragraph description.
It was absurd. That kind of detail populated ever route from somewhere you wanted to be to another place you wanted to be. You couldn't macro them all.
I'd compare it to navigating by GPS when your GPS includes the instruction "pull over to the side and smell roses" or "check house number: input to continue" every block.
1As in, like over a dozen major cities with outlying areas, all modeled as a collection independent "rooms."
Post by: MarcAFK on September 18, 2014, 10:22:04 am
Edit block +2238, 45, -1450, dig
Grab drop
Place block +2238,45, -1450 oak log.
Move east +2239, 45 -1450
Place block +2239, 45 -1450 oak log
*you cannot place block there, area obstructed*
Observe area.
Observing block +2239, 45, -1450
This block is a tree, idiot.
Cut tree
Which tree?
Cut tree +2239, 45, -1450
You do not have a tool for cutting.
Punch tree to death with fist.
Tree is not alive.
FUCK!!
Command not accepted, you do not have enough mobs to breed another steve.
Punch tree.
Which tree.
Punch tree +2239, 45 -1450
The tree drops a log.
Craft wood planks.
You create 4 wooden planks.
Place wooden plank +2239, 45 -1450
You place a wooden plank at +2239, 45, -1450
You are eaten by a zombie.
You cannot respawn in hard mode.
Restart?
Edit: Typing this out made me remember how frustrated I got trying to play my friends smaug, serrian something or other.
Post by: anzki4 on September 18, 2014, 11:04:59 am
Post by: lordcooper on September 18, 2014, 03:52:06 pm
Discworld MUD is the only real MUD.
Spoken like someone who never tried Armageddon!
Post by: Moghjubar on September 18, 2014, 03:57:26 pm
Post by: Squeegy on September 18, 2014, 05:16:48 pm
You would think those MU*s with insane directions like that would have road signs with options to follow them to the destination, thus avoiding having to do insane macros all the time.This is basically what my MUD did.
Post by: MrWiggles on September 19, 2014, 02:34:52 am
Post by: FearfulJesuit on October 13, 2014, 05:39:44 pm
Post by: Graknorke on October 13, 2014, 05:56:10 pm
Guy wants 150 Bitcoins to name his daughter Satoshi Bitcoin. (https://bitcoinstarter.com/projects/946) Bonus: donate twenty bitcoins and become her godparent.Isn't 150 Bitcoins kind of a lot for something that is free and effortless to do? I'm surprised you didn't pick up on the 1 bitcoin reward either. Doesn't it come off as a bit creepy to you?
Post by: FearfulJesuit on October 13, 2014, 05:59:55 pm
Guy wants 150 Bitcoins to name his daughter Satoshi Bitcoin. (https://bitcoinstarter.com/projects/946) Bonus: donate twenty bitcoins and become her godparent.Isn't 150 Bitcoins kind of a lot for something that is free and effortless to do? I'm surprised you didn't pick up on the 1 bitcoin reward either. Doesn't it come off as a bit creepy to you?
Yeah, that was creepy as fuck, too. So was this comment by this guy whom I presume was the original project creator:
Quote
Our little baby is almost 3 months now and she is growing up well. She really likes how satoshi sounds. You understand that this project is really unusual thats why we are going to remain anonymous until funding succeeds. In about 9 months from now the naming ceremony will take place. We hope the best for our little satoshi and we will try to make all her dreams come true. Thanks for the support all the members of the constantly growing bitcoin community.
You'll note that no funding has been provided at all, so it looks like this guy is just asking for money for something he was going to do anyways.
Post by: Draco18s on October 13, 2014, 07:03:52 pm
He's asking for $57,000 give or take about 10%.
That 1 btc pledge? Yeah, that's like $400.
(1 btc = $393 at the time of this posting, the 57k number was based off a rough average of the last few days at $380)
Post by: olemars on October 14, 2014, 05:48:08 am
Post by: MrWiggles on October 16, 2014, 07:09:18 pm
I wonder if he's aware that Satoshi is a boy's name.check your privilage.
Post by: Loud Whispers on November 08, 2014, 09:00:26 pm
Post by: Redzephyr01 on November 08, 2014, 10:10:09 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on November 08, 2014, 10:17:57 pm
Post by: TamerVirus on November 08, 2014, 10:59:48 pm
Wait, bitcoins are worth $380?! How? What can you even buy with bitcoins?
A year ago, a single Bitcoin was worth a grand
One thousand US dollars
Post by: penguinofhonor on November 08, 2014, 11:01:11 pm
Post by: Aklyon on November 08, 2014, 11:17:51 pm
Wait, bitcoins are worth $380?! How?The same way they can drop to under $20 out of nowhere, or however it was that caused the little panic some time ago.
Post by: Graknorke on November 09, 2014, 09:00:00 am
Wait, bitcoins are worth $380?! How?Because their value is based entirely on bullshit upon bullshit. You can try to dig to the bottom, but the bullshit is just propping itself up at this point.
Post by: Draco18s on November 09, 2014, 09:47:45 am
Wait, bitcoins are worth $380?! How? What can you even buy with bitcoins?
There's a giant market in bitcoins.
https://bitcoinwisdom.com
Post by: Rose on November 09, 2014, 10:48:39 am
Making a kickstarter for my house.
Bad idea, or terrible idea?
Post by: Aklyon on November 09, 2014, 10:49:30 am
So.The badness probably scales on the size of the house.
Making a kickstarter for my house.
Bad idea, or terrible idea?
Post by: Rose on November 09, 2014, 10:52:41 am
Post by: Parsely on November 09, 2014, 01:40:29 pm
Post by: Sirus on November 09, 2014, 02:30:26 pm
And at least a house has tangible, long-lasting value.
Post by: scriver on November 09, 2014, 05:23:29 pm
Post by: Putnam on November 09, 2014, 08:06:05 pm
If a Kickstarter for potato salad can be successful, I don't see why one for building a house couldn't.
And at least a house has tangible, long-lasting value.
Quote from: Kickstarter rules
Projects must create something to share with others.
Kickstarter can be used to create all sorts of things: art and gadgets, events and spaces, ideas and experiences. But every project needs a plan for creating something and sharing it with the world. At some point, the creator should be able to say: “It’s finished. Here’s what we created. Enjoy!”
Post by: Sirus on November 09, 2014, 08:07:46 pm
Besides, I'm pretty sure the initial potato salad kickstarter was only meant for the one guy.
Post by: Fniff on November 09, 2014, 08:08:40 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 09, 2014, 08:48:52 pm
Japa's wife and upcoming child don't count?
Besides, I'm pretty sure the initial potato salad kickstarter was only meant for the one guy.
Maybe originally, but invitations to the potato salad dinner became a backer reward. I have no idea how that turned out.
Post by: Leafsnail on November 09, 2014, 08:55:51 pm
Post by: Moghjubar on November 09, 2014, 09:10:03 pm
$10,000 backer reward: they get to live in the basement for a month and creep the neighbors out (must be sufficiently creepy and file a creeping plan).
Post by: Rose on November 09, 2014, 10:44:16 pm
Post by: scriver on November 10, 2014, 12:30:32 am
Post by: PTTG?? on November 20, 2014, 05:48:53 pm
Post by: TamerVirus on November 20, 2014, 09:47:43 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on November 21, 2014, 12:09:16 am
Post by: Yannanth on November 30, 2014, 05:45:36 pm
Post by: nenjin on November 30, 2014, 05:55:41 pm
Post by: birdy51 on November 30, 2014, 08:19:29 pm
But the fact that it exists at all is vaguely amusing.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 30, 2014, 08:47:57 pm
Post by: TamerVirus on November 30, 2014, 08:51:50 pm
Post by: Draco18s on November 30, 2014, 09:01:45 pm
Also, that hat looks good on no body.
Post by: Sergius on November 30, 2014, 11:19:48 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 01, 2014, 12:08:07 am
Post by: Draco18s on December 01, 2014, 09:49:32 am
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lso0r9qnkv1qlfcoeo1_500.png
Your avatar then made me think of Steven Colbert as Saxton Hale cosplaying Captain America.
Which amused me.
Post by: miauw62 on December 01, 2014, 10:03:00 am
It's a KS staff pick, KS staff confirmed to have no taste.
Post by: DJ on December 01, 2014, 11:08:10 am
Post by: Sergius on December 01, 2014, 11:47:34 am
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lso0r9qnkv1qlfcoeo1_500.png
Your avatar then made me think of Steven Colbert as Saxton Hale cosplaying Captain America.
Which amused me.
Well it is from here: http://wikiality.wikia.com/Stefen_Colbear
Post by: Draco18s on December 01, 2014, 12:19:38 pm
Well it is from here: http://wikiality.wikia.com/Stefen_Colbear
I knew it was Colbert (or an artistic rendering thereof) but the picture linked made me think of Saxon Hale, which merged with that picture.
Post by: TamerVirus on December 01, 2014, 12:55:39 pm
It suggests tuxedo.
Tuxedo on head
Post by: Aklyon on December 01, 2014, 12:56:40 pm
The stupid upside down triangle does nothing to suggest a cobraThat makes it sound even worse, heh.
It suggests tuxedo.
Tuxedo on head
Post by: Sergius on December 01, 2014, 04:07:56 pm
So, "Caution, wet ceiling"?
Post by: nenjin on December 01, 2014, 04:09:43 pm
Post by: nenjin on December 03, 2014, 05:53:47 pm
Can't tell if it's real or a joke, as I see not one iota of actual McDonalds branding anywhere on the indiegogo page or the company home page.
Post by: Levi on December 03, 2014, 05:56:16 pm
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-mcmass-project
Can't tell if it's real or a joke, as I see not one iota of actual McDonalds branding anywhere on the indiegogo page or the company home page.
Oh man, I thought it was hillarious when I heard about it before, but seeing the gogo page its even better.
Quote
Flexible Funding
This campaign will receive all funds even if it does not reach its goal.
Post by: Criptfeind on December 03, 2014, 06:04:43 pm
Anyway, that aside, why don't churches have commercial things inside of them? Is that some religious thing? Because it sounds like a good idea to me.
Post by: Putnam on December 03, 2014, 06:08:08 pm
Anyway, that aside, why don't churches have commercial things inside of them? Is that some religious thing? Because it sounds like a good idea to me.
The last time commercial stuff was in a church in the bible, Jesus fucked 'em up.
I'm not even joking. Mathhew 21:12-13.
Post by: Levi on December 03, 2014, 06:09:11 pm
*Levi has never been in a church* :-X
Post by: TamerVirus on December 03, 2014, 06:13:20 pm
Post by: Aklyon on December 03, 2014, 06:22:12 pm
I assumed they did. Don't some have coffee shops or something?At best I've seen some free lemonade/coffee post-mass, and occasionally cookies.
*Levi has never been in a church* :-X
Post by: nenjin on December 03, 2014, 07:04:48 pm
Post by: Mattk50 on December 04, 2014, 08:04:27 pm
While she claims to be a game developer, her kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/deviever/console-ii-cartridge-based-multi-fx-guitar-pedal/posts/1071510#comments) was for a guitar pedal project, not a game of some sort. I like how she continues to list a patreon (http://www.patreon.com/pixelgoth) there.
http://archive.today/YICbE (http://archive.today/YICbE)
http://archive.today/5z2ow (http://archive.today/5z2ow)
http://archive.today/mqRQl (http://archive.today/mqRQl)
Quote
Anyone who is pissed I donated to @femfreq (https://archive.today/o/YICbE/https://twitter.com/femfreq) instead of using it on my IRS / KS debt can suck my dick....
From her kickstarter update posts:
Quote
I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THIS SINCE PEOPLE SEEM TO BE HAVING A VERY HARD TIME PAYING ATTENTION TO THE PREVIOUS UPDATES.
ONE : CONTACT ME AT CONSOLEatDEVIEVERdotCOM FROM NOW ON IF YOU NEED TO GET A HOLD OF ME
TWO : I CAN'T PAY BACK MORE BACKERS TILL I'VE PAID THE IRS. I OWE THE IRS A LOT OF MONEY. I -HAVE- ALREADY PAID BACK THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS BEFORE MY IRS DEBT BECAME A BIGGER CONCERN, SO PLEASE STOP TELLING PEOPLE I AM TAKING THE MONEY AND RUNNING FOR THE LOVE OF FUCK. MY KICKSTARTER BACKERS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ABLE TO GET A HOLD OF ME AT CONSOLEatDEVIEVERdotCOM. ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE IS A TROLL OR NOT PAYING ATTENTION.
THREE : I'M NOT MAKING A LIVING WAGE YET (I.E. I CAN'T AFFORD HEALTH INSURANCE, MY HEALTH IS FAILING IN VARIOUS ASPECTS, SO IT'S PRETTY FUCKING IMPORTANT I CAN AFFORD THESE THINGS BEFORE PAYING MORE PEOPLE BACK)
FOUR : UNTIL I PAY BACK THE IRS AND AM MAKING A LIVING WAGE, I CAN NOT CONTINUE TO PAYBACK KICKSTARTER SUPPORTERS. PERIOD. END OF STORY. I AM STILL WORKING HARD TO MAKE A LIVING WAGE AND IF YOU WANT TO SEE THIS HAPPEN SOONER, THEN STOP ENABLING HARASSMENT OF ME, AND START SUPPORTING MY PIXEL ART, MUSIC, AND VIDEO GAME DEVELOPMENT.
FIVE : SEE ONE
ENABLING TROLLS, STALKERS, AND HARASSERS TO BOTHER ME ABOUT THIS VIA TWITTER IS NOT GOING TO HELP ME GET TO A BETTER PLACE FINANCIALLY, SO THOSE OF YOU DOING SO, PLEASE STOP
ONCE AGAIN, YOU CAN -ALWAYS- GET A HOLD OF ME VIA CONSOLEatDEVIEVERdotCOM
ONCE AGAIN, THAT IS CONSOLEatDEVIEVERdotCOM
CONSOLEatDEVIEVERdotCOM
P.S. ON A MORE PERSONAL NOTE, I AM NO LONGER GOING BY THE NAME DEVI EVER, SO PLEASE RESPECT THAT AS I HAVE WRITTEN HERE, AND REFER TO ME AS GRACE LYNN. THIS IS NOT AN ATTEMPT TO RUN AWAY FROM MY DEBTS, BUT A VERY PERSONAL DECISION. ONCE AGAIN, PLEASE READ HERE AND RESPECT MY DECISION.
Quote
This is not a joke.
I want this to be over with.
People are now organizing a harassment campaign against me, enabling people not even involved in this kickstarter including a stalker who has been harassing me on a daily basis for three years.
I have no money to give anyone.
I can't even pay for my own medical coverage.
I just want this over with.
Please sue me. I beg of you. Take me to court. Have this all done.
You won't get your money any fucking quicker, but you'll ruin my life just like you want, and we can all be over with this.
I just want the harassment to end.
I'm begging you.
tl;dr: Kickstarter project gets funded, doesn't get finished, donates money to Feminist Frequency rather than paying backers back and paying taxes. Now she's playing the harassment victim card and in emotional distress due to the government expecting taxes to get paid.
"when kickstarters go nuclear" perhaps.
Post by: Gnorm on December 04, 2014, 08:23:19 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on December 04, 2014, 08:25:04 pm
Post by: Gnorm on December 04, 2014, 08:27:46 pm
Reminds me of that 'pictures for sad children' kickstarter meltdown. I wonder if she'll also get away with it (I don't think the person responsible for the webcomic stuff ever got in any legal trouble.)I don't know much about what happened to the web-comic guy, other than that he went insane and that no-body likes talking about him anymore. As for this guy here, some of the people in the comments are threatening him with the Kickstarter policies, though I'm not sure how much teeth they have.
Post by: NobodyPro on December 04, 2014, 08:28:24 pm
I wonder if his patrons of patreon know of his awful kickstarter behavior.*her
At least the sun didn't tell her to stop.
Post by: alway on December 04, 2014, 08:57:57 pm
Post by: Mattk50 on December 04, 2014, 09:05:39 pm
It's pretty clear she made quite a good effort to refund people up to the point of her ability for the better part of a year. It's also pretty clear as per basically every crowd funding thing ever that even that is above and beyond what is actually required. Usually, they just vanish entirely along with all the money. So yeah, if people are harassing her, it's because they are dicks.She donated the remaining kickstarter money to anita sarkesian. Maybe you should read kickstarter's rules if you think refunding your backers if you never do anything isn't required.
She is pretending valid criticism is harassment, which it isn't. it can suck to get a torrent of attention and tweets critical of you and whatever but it's not harrassment. Maybe one or two people are actually harassing her but honestly, she's playing the victim card to try to shield herself.
Post by: alway on December 04, 2014, 09:15:53 pm
It's pretty clear she made quite a good effort to refund people up to the point of her ability for the better part of a year. It's also pretty clear as per basically every crowd funding thing ever that even that is above and beyond what is actually required. Usually, they just vanish entirely along with all the money. So yeah, if people are harassing her, it's because they are dicks.She donated the remaining kickstarter money to anita sarkesian.[citation needed]
Quote
Maybe you should read kickstarter's rules if you think refunding your backers if you never do anything isn't required.Kickstarter's rules are intentionally vague on this point. And as she does appear to have worked towards the goal, that most certainly is doing something.
Quote
She is pretending valid criticism is harassment, which it isn't. it can suck to get a torrent of attention and tweets critical of you and whatever but it's not harrassment. Maybe one or two people are actually harassing her but honestly, she's playing the victim card to try to shield herself.There is no such thing as 'valid criticism' here because there is nothing for anyone to gain by criticizing here. Just because only a few are doing so in a blatantly illegal manner doesn't make everyone else piling on hate justified.
Post by: Toady One on December 04, 2014, 09:28:49 pm
Post by: Rez on December 05, 2014, 12:36:00 am
Presumably, people are criticizing this person, because she took their money and didn't do the project. I imagine some of them are criticizing her in an attempt to get their refund; I'm sure many others are trying to destroy her reputation, so she can't run a successful, meaning funded, kickstarter in the future or convince people to give to her patreon. That's mean, no doubt, but I'd get a warm fuzzy if I felt I stopped a con from scamming people or, more charitably, stopped a poor manager from wasting other people's money. In the end, that's what this whole thread is about. Bringing up bad projects and incompetent managers/artists and illuminating the problems with KS is what we do and that's a very important thing to do if we want small-scale patronage and investing to actually work. Anyway, I digress; surely some of the people criticising her are doing so for valid reasons and for some kind of gain, material or not.
Just because a few are harassing her, be they sincere assholes, trolls, or agent provocateurs, doesn't mean that you can dismiss any criticism as invalid.
She didn't say she donated the KS funds to Anita, only the profits from a #gamedev gig.
By the by, if you're claiming one of the reasons you can't pay people back is because you aren't making enough money to pay your back taxes and health insurance, you probably shouldn't tweet that you're giving money away and that "It was the least I could do to make up for what I've done." (?) Money is fungible and if she didn't really need the money from that gig, she had an obligation to give it to her
Post by: Graknorke on December 06, 2014, 02:06:56 am
By the by, if you're claiming one of the reasons you can't pay people back is because you aren't making enough money to pay your back taxes and health insurance, you probably shouldn't tweet that you're giving money away and that "It was the least I could do to make up for what I've done." (?) Money is fungible and if she didn't really need the money from that gig, she had an obligation to give it to herThis is, I think, the reason people are upset. The extravagant spending while struggling financially and with more pressing obligations. And being confusingly proud about it, on top of that.creditorsbackers.
Post by: Draco18s on February 22, 2015, 06:10:05 pm
Trials of Ascension (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/forgedchaos/trials-of-ascension/), or that MMO that wants to do permadeath and dragons that can wage war with "an entire city of humans" but can't seem to make it to beta.
When it first started, they had something like a dozen races planned: elves, humans, dwarves, dragons, gargoyles... but it turned sour when the project lead would make wild and rash decisions at the whims of whoever he liked that week, alienating the community and delaying launch. No really, this is a game that back when I first heard about it (2002ish) had an open beta signup page, and still only just hit Kickstarter.
These "wild and rash" decisions involve things like "can't communicate with anyone outside your race and using external messaging systems to get around that will earn you a ban" or "dragons can't communicate with each other" or "any non-dragon settlement trying to help raise a dragon will be turned into a smoking crater."1 Because when a dragon has a fair fight against a whole city of humans, you gotta put limitations somewhere. And that somewhere ended up being on the survival rate.
Their most recent relaunch was about a year ago, taking donations at their website (you can see evidence of that in FAQ: "I earned Champion before Kickstarter, do I get early access?" "Yes") and severely limiting scope, only one race: human, with more to be added later, once the game's up and running and the money is rolling in. The kickstarter now shows three playable races, adding back in the dragons (fire and ice, with enough differences to make these effectively two races) and some giant spider thing I haven't seen before / don't remember, which which appear to exist for those people who want nothing better to do than kill other players (permadeath, remember?).
They want $600,000 or the game will basically die.
Quote
Many of you have already given so much and we are forever grateful for your generosity. We couldn’t ask for better supporters, but our Kickstarter is our ‘do or die’. It is our proverbial fork in the road where the development of ToA will continue and become the game we all want to play, or it won’t.
1Not making it up, although not enough of the original forums remain retrievable with the internet wayback machine.
I do clearly remember concocting a cunning plan (for my 14 year old self) that would have forced the GMs to smoking-crater a good portion of the map: join forces with a dozen or more friends and have each raise a dragon to adulthood. Once there are enough dragons: fly four to a city and demand fealty: if a city is an even match for an adult dragon, then four should be overpowering. Conquer one city per dragon and install each dragon as lord, utilizing the city to benefit the dragons' further growth. Any city that doesn't cooperate is burnt to the ground. Any city that does, is nuked by the GMs when they find out about it. Instant immolation of a good portion of the gameworld.
Post by: Aklyon on February 22, 2015, 06:14:02 pm
Post by: Graknorke on February 22, 2015, 06:18:04 pm
If each non-dragon player controlled an entire city then it could be more believable sounding, and switch to be more strategy and economics focussed than being like a traditional action-RPG.
Post by: Draco18s on February 22, 2015, 06:36:38 pm
That sounds like an interesting idea ruined by a very impressionable project lead.I don't know if that's still the case, but definitely. I heard tale of programmers being fired if they fell out of favor too far. But yeah, there were wild swings back in the day. Wild, wild swings...
Still wouldn't work. You'd need hundreds times more humans than dragons, and why would you invest tens of hours into the weaker side knowing there's a decent chance it could just get wiped out like nothing?I don't know what the comparative power scale is any more, its not listed. But yeah. The thing that kept the dragon population "low" was the 1% survival-to-adulthood rate they'd planned on. As in, a new hatchling dragon would find a serious threat of disease and starvation, with evenly matched fights with ordinary rabbits.
Suffice to say, stuff like that poisoned the well. So I plan to sit here and watch it fail.
Post by: MrWiggles on February 22, 2015, 09:59:21 pm
The fan project Harry Potter MMO. Its gonna be awesome because professional game companies can't make MMOs, only fans with limited, to no experience in making games, and MMOs can make MMOs. That's just science.
They also don't need license for Harry Potter, because they refuse to understand the basic of IP law, and they're non-profit. Even though Bioharzard (the "company") making it isn't a 501c.
And since have such a profound lack of experience, they can make this MMO on just 100k dollars.
Also, they linked to a crowd source campaign Documentary on Batman, and a crowd source campaign original music based on Harry Potter, to show they can totally make harry potter games.
Post by: Draco18s on February 22, 2015, 10:51:29 pm
Post by: MarcAFK on February 23, 2015, 01:05:53 am
Are these first years?
Edit They've got some nice art on the KS page, which is Nice, I guess.
Post by: King Kravoka on February 23, 2015, 02:01:19 am
Still wouldn't work. You'd need hundreds times more humans than dragons, and why would you invest tens of hours into the weaker side knowing there's a decent chance it could just get wiped out like nothing?Maybe a game with playable dragons could work if the average power level is right.
If each non-dragon player controlled an entire city then it could be more believable sounding, and switch to be more strategy and economics focussed than being like a traditional action-RPG.
Imagine a game where players can start out as Capital P-Powerful Mages, demigods and of course dragons.
Post by: alway on February 23, 2015, 02:52:58 am
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/186771546/the-wizarding-world-onlineBog-standard Idea Guy territory. Honestly, I'm a bit surprised at how few of them we see on Kickstarter. Typically the flowchart goes:
The fan project Harry Potter MMO. Its gonna be awesome because professional game companies can't make MMOs, only fans with limited, to no experience in making games, and MMOs can make MMOs. That's just science.
They also don't need license for Harry Potter, because they refuse to understand the basic of IP law, and they're non-profit. Even though Bioharzard (the "company") making it isn't a 501c.
And since have such a profound lack of experience, they can make this MMO on just 100k dollars.
Also, they linked to a crowd source campaign Documentary on Batman, and a crowd source campaign original music based on Harry Potter, to show they can totally make harry potter games.
Code: [Select]
Do I want to make games because I have cool ideas? -> No, I am currently an accountant, but perhaps want to try lion taming.
|
V
Yes, of course I do. Do I have any skills for making games? -> Yes, I am currently in the game industry or recently left it.
|
V
No. What do I know about making games? -> Making games is difficult and/or boring and I don't really want to do that, or am in the process of acquiring skills
|
V
I play a lot of games and have spent a lot of time in WoW.
|
V
GUILD BANKS GUILD BANKS AND DRAGONS AND COOL STUFF.I've even seen one pop up on facebook in a private group of some game devs in an awkward sort of "how'd you get this number" moment. The number of Idea Guys may even outnumber the number of game devs in the industry... Though I suppose it could also be the other facet of the Idea Guy, the hiding of their super cool industry revolutionizing ideas for fear of someone "stealing their ideas," which usually persists up until they get desperate when no one wants to join some rando's team who won't tell them what they would even be working on... Even still, I wonder if Kickstarter has a vetting process eliminating most of them, cutting it down to a mere avalanche from an unceasing world-annihilating gamma ray burst.
Post by: Putnam on February 23, 2015, 04:04:44 am
Post by: Neonivek on February 23, 2015, 04:11:14 am
The number of idea guys is absolutely more than the number of proper game devs. It's way easier to be an idea guy.
Well... It is one thing to come up with a loose idea.
It is another to buckle down and try to translate that idea into outright mechanics.
I gave up on fixing the Pokémon pen and paper game... Not because I couldn't, It was rather easy, but because it would take too much time for something I was ultimately not interested in.
Post by: nenjin on February 23, 2015, 10:26:19 am
The number of idea guys is absolutely more than the number of proper game devs. It's way easier to be an idea guy.
Well... It is one thing to come up with a loose idea.
It is another to buckle down and try to translate that idea into outright mechanics.
I gave up on fixing the Pokémon pen and paper game... Not because I couldn't, It was rather easy, but because it would take too much time for something I was ultimately not interested in.
Even forming a concrete, mechanically sound idea is peanuts compared to actually programming.
Post by: PTTG?? on February 23, 2015, 08:31:07 pm
Well, actually, they have several problems. One of the largest is self-knowledge. The problem they have which I intend to talk about is this:
They aren't actually making a Harry Potter game. They're making a WOW clone set in a place named Hogwarts. Instead of explaining how they intend to organize players by year and how they'll have lessons and how a regimented, linear experience in a school where one lives and studies can possibly make a good game, they talk about having individual rooms instead of dormitories, how you'll wander into the Forbidden Forest for sweet loot, and how you'll eventually get to have a broom mount. They say how combat will be very different from WOW because everyone is a low-HP squishy wizard. Tanking will never be the same, they say.
Post by: miauw62 on February 24, 2015, 01:58:00 am
Post by: MrWiggles on February 24, 2015, 02:12:02 am
Post by: Reelya on February 24, 2015, 02:36:22 am
Player characters: (https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/003/280/564/d6de1d0c15d8e0966c521217ea78b576_original.jpg?v=1423850834&w=700&h=&fit=max&auto=format&q=92&s=124a3efe9d09cc5bae74d7067574806d)it looks like their paper-doll art system also ripped of Kudos 2. They even got the leg-tilt the same:
Are these first years?
Edit They've got some nice art on the KS page, which is Nice, I guess.
(http://www.positech.co.uk/kudos2/images/woman.gif)(http://www.positech.co.uk/kudos2/images/woman1.gif)
Post by: MrWiggles on February 24, 2015, 04:33:14 am
Post by: tryrar on February 24, 2015, 04:51:40 am
Post by: Neonivek on February 24, 2015, 05:13:07 am
Instead of explaining how they intend to organize players by year and how they'll have lessons and how a regimented, linear experience in a school where one lives and studies can possibly make a good game
I am picturing my dream harry potter based MMO to be basically you going to Hogwarts and going through the years...
But eventually your character will "retire" so to speak but your child will become available with bonuses.
Though I also picture it without a huge focus on combat.
Post by: MrWiggles on February 24, 2015, 08:53:07 am
Real question is how long before they get hit with a massive horde of C&D letters? :P
They're claiming they have an understanding with WB. I cant help but feel this is dubious.
Post by: Rez on February 24, 2015, 10:31:33 am
Instead of explaining how they intend to organize players by year and how they'll have lessons and how a regimented, linear experience in a school where one lives and studies can possibly make a good gameBut eventually your character will "retire" so to speak but your child will become available with bonuses.
Wizard breeding game!
Post by: Sergarr on February 24, 2015, 10:42:59 am
Instead of explaining how they intend to organize players by year and how they'll have lessons and how a regimented, linear experience in a school where one lives and studies can possibly make a good gameBut eventually your character will "retire" so to speak but your child will become available with bonuses.
Wizard breeding game!
Yay! Let's give old players ability to create characters vastly more powerful than e\any\\thing available to the new players! Cheers for Harry!
Post by: Aklyon on February 24, 2015, 10:58:21 am
They say how combat will be very different from WOW because everyone is a low-HP squishy wizard. Tanking will never be the same, they say.But will it involve hotkeys, or typing spells out instead?
Post by: scriver on February 24, 2015, 12:20:42 pm
Post by: Darvi on February 24, 2015, 12:21:55 pm
Unless that's what you wanted to do, roasted nuts are pretty good.
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 24, 2015, 12:44:53 pm
Post by: Sirus on February 24, 2015, 12:51:28 pm
Post by: Glloyd on February 24, 2015, 01:57:55 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 24, 2015, 02:04:16 pm
Don't worry, it all makes sense. You see, tits. *waves hand vaguely*I am thinking back to high school and imagining all of the ridiculous shenanigans one could fit into a highschool wizard simulator.
Unsanctioned cosmetic body modification spellwork, epic pranks, he said/she said drama caused by illusions and disguise potions...
The idea COULD be fun. Doesn't sound like it WILL be though.
Post by: Draco18s on February 24, 2015, 02:09:38 pm
- Butchered quote from a novel I can't remember which. Could have been The Magicians.
Post by: Aklyon on February 24, 2015, 02:11:51 pm
Unsanctioned cosmetic body modification spellworkThat could probably be used to explain the look of the 'first-years'. (or they might not actually be firsts, but *shrug*)
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 24, 2015, 02:13:56 pm
So yeah.
Highschool kids + magic = bad time
Can you imagine being the school nurse?
"Your wand is stuck WHERE?! Why wou- no. just no. Wait outside. I need to write your parents."
Breastus Enormous! -wand flick- Seems in line with something a bunch of highschoolers would come up withUnsanctioned cosmetic body modification spellworkThat could probably be used to explain the look of the 'first-years'. (or they might not actually be firsts, but *shrug*)
Post by: scriver on February 24, 2015, 02:38:05 pm
Unsanctioned cosmetic body modification spellwork, epic pranks, he said/she said drama caused by illusions and disguise potions...
THIS IS AN USANCTIONED USE, OF MAGICAL ENERGY!
Breastus Enormous! -wand flick- Seems in line with something a bunch of highschoolers would come up with
Mamallia Gigantia! Biggus Dickus!
Post by: Glloyd on February 24, 2015, 02:58:32 pm
Biggus Dickus!
Is the counterpart to that spell Incontinentia Buttocks?
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 24, 2015, 03:02:10 pm
Post by: Rez on February 24, 2015, 03:31:10 pm
Post by: Sergarr on February 24, 2015, 03:41:53 pm
Unsanctioned cosmetic body modification spellworkLike these cat ears Hermione once got by crossing herself with a cat?
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 24, 2015, 03:45:42 pm
Exactly, except not by accident and probably with much more horrific consequences.Unsanctioned cosmetic body modification spellworkLike these cat ears Hermione once got by crossing herself with a cat?
Post by: Draco18s on February 24, 2015, 03:53:22 pm
Post by: Graknorke on February 24, 2015, 03:58:19 pm
Can you imagine being the school nurse?Well in the books we saw someone turn into an animal and lose all the bone in their arm, and that was only by accident, students actually trying to achieve questionable goals would really fuck things up.
Post by: Neonivek on February 24, 2015, 04:02:47 pm
But in Charmed...
Their Hogwartz rip off, that was Hogwartz, actually had a spell cast on it that makes you essentially immortal.
But then again if you actually read the books you kind of know that Hogwartz is kind of a TERRIBLE SCHOOL!
Post by: Putnam on February 24, 2015, 04:12:44 pm
Reminds me that according to Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, creating new spells is hard.
I dunno, Snape managed it in canon. 3 times. And one of them was a spell that cures bleeding.
If I were to make a game or mod, I would sorta base it on MoR, yeah, mostly because it's less horrifically exploitable than canon.
Post by: i2amroy on February 24, 2015, 04:15:19 pm
According to known canon creating new spells is hard (or at least requires you to have full knowledge of the advanced field), which was what made the whole "Snape created new spells" thing so amazing (and according to the Harry Potter wiki he actually created 6 new spells).Reminds me that according to Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, creating new spells is hard.I dunno, Snape managed it in canon. 3 times. And one of them was a spell that cures bleeding.
If I were to make a game or mod, I would sorta base it on MoR, yeah, mostly because it's less horrifically exploitable than canon.
Post by: Neonivek on February 24, 2015, 04:19:53 pm
Post by: Putnam on February 24, 2015, 04:23:18 pm
Post by: Graknorke on February 24, 2015, 04:26:22 pm
But then again if you actually read the books you kind of know that Hogwartz is kind of a TERRIBLE SCHOOL!Hey come on it's not that bad. Apart from the bit where it encourages destructively extreme personalities, has very lax security measures given what the school specialised in, teaches no core non-magical skills, and offers all of like 3 extracurricular activities.
Post by: Draco18s on February 24, 2015, 04:27:17 pm
Fred.
George.
Post by: Glloyd on February 24, 2015, 04:29:55 pm
But then again if you actually read the books you kind of know that Hogwartz is kind of a TERRIBLE SCHOOL!Hey come on it's not that bad. Apart from the bit where it encourages destructively extreme personalities, has very lax security measures given what the school specialised in, teaches no core non-magical skills, and offers all of like 3 extracurricular activities.
I think it's mentioned in passing that they teach languages and math, but I could be wrong.
Post by: Neonivek on February 24, 2015, 04:31:07 pm
But then again if you actually read the books you kind of know that Hogwartz is kind of a TERRIBLE SCHOOL!Hey come on it's not that bad. Apart from the bit where it encourages destructively extreme personalities, has very lax security measures given what the school specialised in, teaches no core non-magical skills, and offers all of like 3 extracurricular activities.
Its detention involves letting children through deep dark woods filled with monsters, the dinner room is cursed (a detail not in the movies), the stairs can move while you are on it getting you killed, None of the professors are thoroughly screened and a few are even incompetent, the sport can end in instant fatality (Sort of... there is an implication that wizards are resistant to being hurt)...
The list goes on.
Post by: scriver on February 24, 2015, 04:57:50 pm
Post by: Neonivek on February 24, 2015, 05:02:01 pm
GIANT FUCKING TREE THAT HATES KIDS AND WANTS TO KILL THEM
Giant killer dog that you can just walk through a unmarked door to get to.
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 24, 2015, 05:04:42 pm
To be fair they were all warned not to go up there and the door was locked.GIANT FUCKING TREE THAT HATES KIDS AND WANTS TO KILL THEM
Giant killer dog that you can just walk through a unmarked door to get to.
I mean it wouldn't have killed them to put up a fucking sign though.
Post by: Leafsnail on February 24, 2015, 05:06:49 pm
Post by: i2amroy on February 24, 2015, 05:25:18 pm
Post by: Sensei on February 24, 2015, 05:45:54 pm
Real question is how long before they get hit with a massive horde of C&D letters? :P(http://imageserver.moviepilot.com/harry-letter-frenzy-harry-potter-fan-theory-why-i-never-got-a-hogwarts-acceptance-letter.gif?width=500&height=211)
Post by: Draco18s on February 24, 2015, 05:46:13 pm
To be fair they were all warned not to go up there and the door was locked.GIANT FUCKING TREE THAT HATES KIDS AND WANTS TO KILL THEM
Giant killer dog that you can just walk through a unmarked door to get to.
I mean it wouldn't have killed them to put up a fucking sign though.
Or a(n intelligent) guard....
Although, the HPMOR version is better:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: MrWiggles on February 24, 2015, 06:36:01 pm
Nope. They go over all their classes in almost every book. They never once said math or lang. or bought a math book.But then again if you actually read the books you kind of know that Hogwartz is kind of a TERRIBLE SCHOOL!Hey come on it's not that bad. Apart from the bit where it encourages destructively extreme personalities, has very lax security measures given what the school specialised in, teaches no core non-magical skills, and offers all of like 3 extracurricular activities.
I think it's mentioned in passing that they teach languages and math, but I could be wrong.
Post by: Karlito on February 24, 2015, 06:41:11 pm
Post by: Draco18s on February 24, 2015, 07:23:11 pm
Well, there's "arithmancy".
The book for it is probably called "Daffy Duck in Mathemagic Land."
(Or some appropriately less muggle pun)
Post by: PTTG?? on February 25, 2015, 11:41:31 am
Their thread. (http://www.thewizardingworldonline.com/forum/m/24266065/viewthread/19875261-closing-kickstarter)
"The community response." (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/186771546/the-wizarding-world-online/comments)
Post by: MrWiggles on February 25, 2015, 05:17:26 pm
So they canceled Wizarding World Online because the community was tearing it apart. They actually discuss it on their forums.What a shit show. So because they didn't get universal praise, and trust, they're taking it down. And 'perently, their Logo section has some logo they werent allowed to use. Which, just seems par for the course.
Their thread. (http://www.thewizardingworldonline.com/forum/m/24266065/viewthread/19875261-closing-kickstarter)
"The community response." (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/186771546/the-wizarding-world-online/comments)
Post by: nenjin on February 25, 2015, 05:19:51 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on February 25, 2015, 06:15:54 pm
They're just ass covering after it became clear that no one was going to overlook infringing on one of the most well-known IPs in the world. The Internet did them a favor, frankly, because Rowling and her publisher's lawyers would have taken them apart piece by piece.Na uh, they had an understanding with WB.
Post by: Aklyon on February 25, 2015, 06:24:27 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on February 26, 2015, 12:59:36 am
Is your avatar supposed to be imageshack, Wiggles?Nah. My photo buck account died, and I've been too lazy to get my Seal rehosted elsewhere
Post by: penguinofhonor on April 29, 2015, 04:24:08 pm
Post by: Levi on April 29, 2015, 04:25:26 pm
Esportsers: Have you ever felt restrained? Like your clothes are holding you back your gaming sessions? Or possibly your lack of clothes? Sportswear exists, but we all know that flimsy brands like Underarmor and Nike are designed for slow-paced games like football and can't withstand the intense APM of true pro gamers. Your salvation is finally here, as someone has invented Reactiv, the world's first esportsware. (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/reactivdesigns/re-activ-wear-esports-apparel)
Bwahahaha. :P
Post by: penguinofhonor on April 29, 2015, 04:29:40 pm
Post by: Aklyon on April 29, 2015, 04:46:11 pm
oh my god this is even better (slightly NSFW) (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/599069035/the-gentleman-no-boner)That looks like someone learned only just enough of blender to make the thing they wanted.
Post by: Graknorke on April 29, 2015, 06:56:51 pm
oh my god this is even better (slightly NSFW) (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/599069035/the-gentleman-no-boner)Manufactured out of plastic? That sounds like something that I would not want to have.
Post by: SealyStar on April 29, 2015, 09:02:59 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 30, 2015, 05:22:49 am
Post by: scriver on April 30, 2015, 07:46:49 am
Post by: Reelya on April 30, 2015, 07:53:36 am
Quote from: Wizarding World Online
The game will continue in development, but will be acquiring a new license that will allow us to avoid Kickstarter situations.Yeah, the IP infringement problem was totally because Kickstarter.
Post by: Flying Dice on April 30, 2015, 09:25:47 am
Yeah, I'm thinking, if you can't dance with a girl because you get a boner, what good will having a constant plastic hardon do? I guess it'll look less noticeable, but it's not like you wouldn't be able to feel it. And if you aren't dancing close enough to feel it, how are you getting wood?Hey, judging by the target audience, it's guys who haven't had a woman voluntarily be within five feet of them for years.
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 30, 2015, 09:27:37 am
I showed this to my wife and she said she'd rather feel the arousal than have a piece of plastic poking her through his pants.Yeah, I'm thinking, if you can't dance with a girl because you get a boner, what good will having a constant plastic hardon do? I guess it'll look less noticeable, but it's not like you wouldn't be able to feel it. And if you aren't dancing close enough to feel it, how are you getting wood?Hey, judging by the target audience, it's guys who haven't had a woman voluntarily be within five feet of them for years.
Post by: Draco18s on April 30, 2015, 09:40:32 am
I showed this to my wife and she said she'd rather feel the arousal than have a piece of plastic poking her through his pants.Yeah, I'm thinking, if you can't dance with a girl because you get a boner, what good will having a constant plastic hardon do? I guess it'll look less noticeable, but it's not like you wouldn't be able to feel it. And if you aren't dancing close enough to feel it, how are you getting wood?Hey, judging by the target audience, it's guys who haven't had a woman voluntarily be within five feet of them for years.
Who wouldn't want to feel your arousal pressed up against them?
Someone you either:
a) won't get an arousal by being pressed up against them
b) someone you won't be pressed up against in the first place
#ProblemSolved
Post by: Graknorke on April 30, 2015, 02:26:08 pm
Someone you either:These people exist?
a) won't get an arousal by being pressed up against them
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 30, 2015, 02:28:50 pm
Do a google image search for ugly.Someone you either:These people exist?
a) won't get an arousal by being pressed up against them
Post by: Flying Dice on April 30, 2015, 03:09:41 pm
Post by: Draco18s on May 01, 2015, 01:54:07 pm
FeelReal (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/feelreal/feelreal-vr-mask-and-helmet). Adding the sensations of wind, hot, cold, wet, and 7 customizable odors to your movies and games.
Wait what? Smelling the movie or game environment? Why? Why would I ever subject myself to that?
Post by: nenjin on May 01, 2015, 01:58:05 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 01, 2015, 01:58:19 pm
And then from the makers of No One's Ever Heard of It comes...Hey now when you get teabagged after being killed it will be REALLY IMMERSIVE
FeelReal (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/feelreal/feelreal-vr-mask-and-helmet). Adding the sensations of wind, hot, cold, wet, and 7 customizable odors to your movies and games.
Wait what? Smelling the movie or game environment? Why? Why would I ever subject myself to that?
Post by: Reelya on May 01, 2015, 02:22:02 pm
Changing smell cartridges? I can see a lot of market potential for 3rd party cheap knock-off smells, but beware the cheap bootleg Chinese smells, you never know what chemicals they have in that.
And how about modding your games by putting drugs in the smell cartridges? Link one up to a bong, another to amyl nitrate. Make those crime-related games much more realistic, or get a bong hit every time you use health in a shooter game.
Post by: Teneb on May 01, 2015, 02:29:50 pm
get a bong hit every time you use health in a shooter game.Wouldn't that quickly result in an OD, depending on the game?
Post by: penguinofhonor on May 01, 2015, 02:31:24 pm
Post by: scriver on May 01, 2015, 02:33:31 pm
Post by: Reelya on May 01, 2015, 02:40:38 pm
Quote
the system was to be deployed with the mystery-comedy Scent of Mystery, which would be the first film in which smells revealed certain plot points to the audience. For example, one character is identified by the smell of pipe tobacco.
That lead me here:
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/171797-the-digital-lollipop-simulating-sweetness-for-dietary-gaming-and-health-greatness
Basically they can electrically stimulate your tastebuds in any combination. They're working on commerical applications. When feels real let's you taste real food in a VR game then it might be worth it.
Post by: Flying Dice on May 01, 2015, 02:59:39 pm
Post by: scriver on May 01, 2015, 03:02:05 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on May 01, 2015, 03:04:28 pm
Post by: Draco18s on May 01, 2015, 03:48:05 pm
Post by: nenjin on May 01, 2015, 03:54:55 pm
Post by: scriver on May 01, 2015, 04:31:09 pm
Post by: alway on May 01, 2015, 08:56:39 pm
https://gist.github.com/0xabad1dea/633a7ff7f561263bba34
Post by: Reelya on May 01, 2015, 10:10:04 pm
Post by: Reelya on May 01, 2015, 10:43:18 pm
Tor and such work by using remote DNS, and encrypting your connection to that server. With that, you're not using local DNS or your ISP's DNS. All the ISP sees is encrypted packets going to your Tor server, and would have to decode the packets to see where they're really going.
But it doesn't make sense if there are no dedicated remote proxy servers. Tor works because it is a network that people set up. A magical local router can't do that without the remote servers existing. If "Sever" is doing everything "in the box" then your ISP would fully know where you're sending the packets. The only commercially viable alternative would be if Sever was actually utilizing the existing Tor network, and that would pretty much preclude their 10x faster claim.
Post by: Draco18s on May 01, 2015, 11:19:13 pm
(http://s3.postimg.org/97050uakj/stickers.png)
Post by: Sirus on May 02, 2015, 01:39:59 am
(cookies to whoever gets the reference)
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on May 02, 2015, 09:35:45 am
Post by: Sirus on May 02, 2015, 11:15:26 am
More specifically, I was quoting an LP of that game :P
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on May 02, 2015, 11:32:02 am
Post by: Servant Corps on June 28, 2015, 12:27:47 pm
*Technically, the FTC and the man agreed to a settlement, and the fine itself is suspended because the man has no money. The man himself raised $122,874 from the Kickstarter, so he probably got off easy.
Post by: MrWiggles on June 28, 2015, 02:29:47 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 28, 2015, 02:32:14 pm
Post by: scriver on June 28, 2015, 04:42:54 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 28, 2015, 04:50:50 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on June 28, 2015, 04:58:56 pm
But... If he has no money? Where did the money go?Everyday life expenses, and some luxury purchases and I think a new car?
Post by: MarcAFK on June 29, 2015, 12:35:11 am
Edit: I just noticed this gem on their twitter:
Quote
Rogue Foundry @theroguefoundry · Apr 27...What? This is the complete anthesis of anonymity.
Wait! Only $5 to have your name in anonymity code.... We're sold
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDoZug9WoAAQhiG.png)
Post by: scriver on June 29, 2015, 03:17:17 am
But... If he has no money? Where did the money go?Everyday life expenses, and some luxury purchases and I think a new car?
But then he has money! Money in the shape of objects is still money! :D
Post by: MrWiggles on June 29, 2015, 03:31:59 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 13, 2015, 10:52:04 am
just...
"hey guys I have a vague idea for a story give me money so I can quit my job and write a book"
Post by: nenjin on July 13, 2015, 11:13:19 am
Post by: TempAcc on July 13, 2015, 11:37:59 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 13, 2015, 11:59:54 am
He doesn't address anything. Has he written books before? Does he have any experience with making games? I can tell you that if he plans to hire someone to make his game, 100k is pretty skimpy by itself. If he is also living off of that money full time while writing, it will shrink very quickly.
Just... no.
His Bio is great.
Quote
I am a big family man who is a nerd in sorts, I am sci-fi crazy and have things I want to put on paper then make games with. I am 48 years old, go to school for a degree in business management! I graduate in August and want to start my own business (restaurant) of some kind, but am A one income family at the moment.
Post by: Aklyon on July 13, 2015, 01:27:15 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 13, 2015, 01:32:23 pm
So for 5 thousand dollars, he will send you the PREMISE of his novel/game combo. That is literally what he posted in the kickstarter to begin with.
Then at 9k you'll get the actual book and game once completed. It's just great. No thought went into this at all.
Post by: tryrar on July 13, 2015, 07:09:51 pm
Post by: Iceblaster on July 13, 2015, 07:29:10 pm
That was about when I got tired of kickstarter :P
/me is not claiming kickstarter is always bad.
On another note, besides trawling through thousands of projects, there any good blogs or video series(es) that look at the worst of kickstarter? I find that stuff amusing.
Post by: Graknorke on July 13, 2015, 07:30:17 pm
Post by: SealyStar on July 13, 2015, 10:32:11 pm
Crap: James The Idea Guy's Novel Idea or System.out.println("I Just Learned Java And Am Making An MMO: Part" + n)* is obviously crap and fun to mock, but it's not really Kickstarter "going wrong" because they're understandably not making any money.
Scams: The Series Whose Name Rhymes With Yemen Mist Sequence Three or +1 to Privacy Defense Enchanted Routers; things where the creator uses Kickstarter to get a bunch of money and then, whether deliberately or unintentionally, fails to deliver.
Trolls: Potato Salad is the most salient example; like the above except that they're doing for the amusement or to make a point and just enjoying the money rakèd in as a side benefit.
*Hell, some of them probably don't even know that much.
Post by: nenjin on July 13, 2015, 11:39:18 pm
Quote
Crap: James The Idea Guy's Novel Idea or System.out.println("I Just Learned Java And Am Making An MMO: Part" + n)* is obviously crap and fun to mock, but it's not really Kickstarter "going wrong" because they're understandably not making any money.
Let's not forget the patron saint of the thread.
Post by: SealyStar on July 13, 2015, 11:43:13 pm
Ah yes.QuoteCrap: James The Idea Guy's Novel Idea or System.out.println("I Just Learned Java And Am Making An MMO: Part" + n)* is obviously crap and fun to mock, but it's not really Kickstarter "going wrong" because they're understandably not making any money.
Let's not forget the patron saint of the thread.
Post by: scriver on July 14, 2015, 01:23:42 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 14, 2015, 08:47:44 am
Edit: I see he's had (at least) 2 failed kickstarters since then...
Post by: Cthulhu on July 14, 2015, 09:23:51 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 14, 2015, 09:30:23 am
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/120873716/mylifebook
He only raised $2 out of $10k requested, and not a single person even commented. That's rough.
Post by: Aklyon on July 14, 2015, 10:12:08 am
Thats what, less than a percent of the videos there?
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 14, 2015, 10:43:35 am
Post by: SealyStar on July 14, 2015, 10:50:25 am
Post by: Rose on July 14, 2015, 11:04:25 am
Post by: nenjin on July 14, 2015, 11:06:05 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 14, 2015, 11:29:49 am
Post by: Zangi on July 14, 2015, 12:33:00 pm
Scams: The Series Whose Name Rhymes With Yemen Mist Sequence Three or +1 to Privacy Defense Enchanted Routers; things where the creator uses Kickstarter to get a bunch of money and then, whether deliberately or unintentionally, fails to deliver.If they unintentionally fail, it ain't a scam. It just means they failed cause they didn't know what they were doing and/or other reasons out of their control. Don't group the two together.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 14, 2015, 01:20:01 pm
Post by: Draco18s on July 14, 2015, 01:30:17 pm
He tried to make a social media site with a bunch of boardgames on it. Not a terrible idea on the surface.
You missed the fact that it's actually a Thing.
https://www.mylifebook.me
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 14, 2015, 01:34:36 pm
Neat, I guess. I was talking about the failed kickstarter though. Didn't realize they went ahead and made it.He tried to make a social media site with a bunch of boardgames on it. Not a terrible idea on the surface.
You missed the fact that it's actually a Thing.
https://www.mylifebook.me
Post by: SealyStar on July 14, 2015, 03:06:37 pm
That's true. However, while it's not always someone's fault that their Kickstarter project fails, I still think there's a burden on the creator to plan out beforehand what they'll do if Kickstarter finances aren't enough to finish the project. Find money elsewhere, create the product in such a way that it can be released unfinished or passed off to someone else... anything but get money and not deliver.Scams: The Series Whose Name Rhymes With Yemen Mist Sequence Three or +1 to Privacy Defense Enchanted Routers; things where the creator uses Kickstarter to get a bunch of money and then, whether deliberately or unintentionally, fails to deliver.If they unintentionally fail, it ain't a scam. It just means they failed cause they didn't know what they were doing and/or other reasons out of their control. Don't group the two together.
Post by: Draco18s on July 14, 2015, 05:12:17 pm
I was talking about the failed kickstarter though. Didn't realize they went ahead and made it.
Oh sure, I just happened to see the url under the project creator's name and was like "ooookaaay then."
The site, is of course, completely useless to anyone who isn't signed up, thus making any possible value TO sign up invisible and therefore not worth it.
Post by: nenjin on July 14, 2015, 05:32:07 pm
Interacting with the page is one thing. But even seeing it to know if you'd want to sign up in the first place? Design 101.
Give you a bigger data point and my email address just for the right to see what it looks like? Mmmmmm all my nope. That's how you end up getting spammed.
Post by: Draco18s on July 14, 2015, 05:42:34 pm
Post by: Aklyon on July 14, 2015, 05:47:17 pm
Or a bunch of accounts using Mailinator (http://mailinator.com/).Their site looks fancier than before.
Post by: nenjin on July 14, 2015, 05:48:22 pm
Post by: Draco18s on July 14, 2015, 05:56:27 pm
IndeedOr a bunch of accounts using Mailinator (http://mailinator.com/).Their site looks fancier than before.
Or 10 Minute Mail. Meh. Even that seems like too much work to effectively have them pitch something to me.Oh definitely. I only use it when there's something I know I'm interested in, but don't want to give out my email.
Post by: SealyStar on July 14, 2015, 06:33:12 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/z9MaUc2.jpg)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: MarcAFK on July 15, 2015, 01:43:45 am
Post by: Rose on July 15, 2015, 03:28:39 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on July 15, 2015, 05:45:22 am
Post by: Cthulhu on July 15, 2015, 06:49:02 am
In case you hadn't noticed, there is no god.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 15, 2015, 08:38:23 am
In case you hadn't noticed, there is no god.Or worse, there is a god and he is a jerk
Post by: TempAcc on July 15, 2015, 09:04:03 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 15, 2015, 09:06:19 am
The first annoyance, you have to fill out 7 different math and word problems to prove you're human. Okay.
Next, you cannot get to ANY PART OF THE SITE until you upload a profile picture.
The game selection is pretty thin and the youtube thing didn't even work when I clicked it.
Post by: Aklyon on July 15, 2015, 09:10:56 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 15, 2015, 09:12:47 am
Post by: MarcAFK on July 15, 2015, 09:21:10 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 15, 2015, 09:29:05 am
So none of the games are blackjack and hookerbots?Well they have blackjack anyway.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Draco18s on July 15, 2015, 10:54:08 am
So once you upload a picture you are then FORCED to crop said picture to a specific area. There is no way to say "no this picture is already cropped correctly" which is just odd.
That makes me want to sign up and then upload an image that when cropped is so horrendously awful looking...
"Why is your picture just an ear?"
"Because the uploader made me crop it."
Post by: Dutrius on July 23, 2015, 07:15:56 am
The developer wants 30,000 Euros to develop this 2D cat game with pictures of real cats. (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1054302975/milli-the-cat?ref=category)
I can't read most of it because most of it is in German.
Post by: nenjin on July 23, 2015, 09:11:34 am
Lol......this is their second attempt at it. The first time they wanted $150,000!
Post by: AdmiralGeezer on July 23, 2015, 09:36:25 am
It'd be kinda cute if their mockup didn't literally have literally have jaggies left over from their copy/paste job. Sometimes I want to pledge to these Kickstarters so I could link other projects that asked for what they did but look about 4000x times as good and complex.
Lol......this is their second attempt at it. The first time they wanted $150,000!
Hehe. I think they forgot to cut some pixels out of the "jumping cat" frame. There are some extra pixels up right. Anyway, this seems like an attempt to just make a ridiculous project similar to the potato salad one and hope it takes off.
Post by: MrWiggles on August 25, 2015, 04:22:25 pm
So these folks want to disprove evolution by following in the tracks of Charles Darwin trip to the Galaplpalplspalspalpasplpsldsdsad Islands and disprove Evolution via Natural Selection. I dont know how that proves god real, but whatever.
I'm thinking o reporting the kickstarter, because it feels like its reward tiers violates the rules.
Post by: Sindain on August 25, 2015, 04:41:19 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on August 25, 2015, 04:50:03 pm
Half of their reward tiers are with the requirement that you give them additional money.Thats why I think they should be reported.
Post by: Graknorke on August 25, 2015, 05:02:06 pm
Quote
We see evolution from a maggot to a fly.haha they aren't going to prove shit are they?
Then again it wouldn't surprise me that they can't read a Wikipedia article when they can't read the Kickstarter T&Cs.
Post by: Dutrius on August 25, 2015, 05:05:07 pm
Edit: Just looked at his profile. Apparently he's in Arizona. So how come the kickstarter itself says Guayaquil, Ecuador?
Edit2: What the hell is Evolutionary Psychology?
Edit3: And just how will disproving Evolution help children, as stated in his bio?
Post by: Flying Dice on August 25, 2015, 06:21:51 pm
It's one of the newer theoretical approaches in the field. Of course, social sciences being social sciences, it still only has a tenuous connection to empiricism even if it does at least try.
Also, nobody noticed the best part? Exactly $6.66 has been pledged.
Post by: Sergius on August 25, 2015, 06:39:10 pm
So these folks want to disprove evolution by following in the tracks of Charles Darwin trip to the Galaplpalplspalspalpasplpsldsdsad Islands and disprove Evolution via Natural Selection. I dont know how that proves god real, but whatever.
Well, I'm sold, I'm willing to give them money to disprove Natural Selection as long as they use themselves as test subjects.
Post by: Putnam on August 25, 2015, 06:51:04 pm
Also, nobody noticed the best part? Exactly $6.66 has been pledged.
4 backers. $6.66 pledged.
Post by: Aklyon on August 25, 2015, 06:51:46 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on August 25, 2015, 07:15:11 pm
Speaking of limits, have you guys heard of Fig? It'll let you actually invest in projects and get an RoI based on the profits of the thing. Its not open up to everyone. D something investment.
Post by: Aklyon on August 25, 2015, 08:17:15 pm
Post by: Draco18s on August 26, 2015, 09:46:19 am
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2005551709/finding-proof-god-exists/description
So these folks want to disprove evolution by following in the tracks of Charles Darwin trip to the Galaplpalplspalspalpasplpsldsdsad Islands and disprove Evolution via Natural Selection. I dont know how that proves god real, but whatever.
Quote
[evolution is] limited to a self-sustaining longitudinal circle
The fuck does this sentence even mean? Longitude has jack shit to do with evolution, unless he means that things literally evolve only in the directions East and West.
Speaking of limits, have you guys heard of Fig? It'll let you actually invest in projects and get an RoI based on the profits of the thing. Its not open up to everyone. D something investment.
I've heard about such things, at least in concept. I didn't know one had gone active.
Post by: scriver on August 26, 2015, 10:49:10 am
things literally evolve only in the directions East and West.
It all makes sense now!
Post by: IronyOwl on August 26, 2015, 08:59:43 pm
Of course, that still doesn't explain the self-sustaining circles bit. I guess flies evolve back into maggots after they've evolved into flies?
Post by: Iceblaster on August 27, 2015, 12:02:06 am
Spoiler: Maybe this is what they're referring to? (click to show/hide)
I dunno man. That's just an odd way to say evolution. Maybe he's hoping he'll become the next potato salad guy :P
Post by: Draco18s on August 27, 2015, 06:57:02 am
"Longitudinal studies" are those of the same subject over long periods of time. So I guess it crept in as a reference to long periods of time in general, or else was an attempt to sound smart.
Of course, that still doesn't explain the self-sustaining circles bit. I guess flies evolve back into maggots after they've evolved into flies?
Yeah, which is why I put down a dollar that's not at real risk to ask the question in the comments.
Post by: Cthulhu on August 27, 2015, 11:28:28 am
It's probably a reference to science words they've heard. Your standard cargo cult science experiment, go through hte motions and the trappings of science so you're science, even if you explicitly state that you have a political goal that's irrelevant to your research question (Evolution doesn't disprove the concept of God unless you believe in a God that explicitly contradicts evolution) and you've already decided your answer.
"I believe the populist has accepted the idea of evolution due to the lack of evidence of the contrary."
niccageyoudontsay.jpg
Post by: Loud Whispers on August 27, 2015, 11:59:41 am
Maggots don't evolve into flies.Pokemon is lies
Post by: Elephant Parade on August 27, 2015, 03:38:12 pm
Well, nobody's ever gotten a maggot to the level cap, so we can't be sure.Maggots don't evolve into flies.Pokemon is lies
Post by: Flying Dice on August 27, 2015, 07:21:32 pm
Somehow it went from 4 to 6 backers, but the amount backed is still $6.66.Lucifer works in mysterious ways.
Post by: Draco18s on August 28, 2015, 04:47:04 pm
Somehow it went from 4 to 6 backers, but the amount backed is still $6.66.
Two more people backed, raising it to $8.66, then of the original four, they combined removed $2.
Probably:
BackerA - $1
BackerB - $1
BackerC - $1
BackerD - $3.66
BackerE - $1
BackerF (me) - $1
BackerD - reduced pledge to $1.66
Edit:
Oh lord:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1993336622/am-i-psychic-mobile-app/
Post by: miauw62 on August 28, 2015, 05:22:33 pm
Oh lord:Kill me.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1993336622/am-i-psychic-mobile-app/
Post by: Neonivek on August 28, 2015, 05:23:43 pm
But how the world is it that expensive to purchase?
Post by: Larix on August 28, 2015, 05:46:17 pm
Oh lord:Kill me.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1993336622/am-i-psychic-mobile-app/
I'm afraid my psychokinetic gifts aren't up to that.
Post by: Graknorke on August 28, 2015, 06:14:33 pm
Why? It might give some people a reality check.Oh lord:Kill me.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1993336622/am-i-psychic-mobile-app/
aka magic isn't real
I'm not sure why it cost five thousand dollars to make an iphone app like that though. Most people who know how to make things specifically for whatever hellmaze architecture Apple uses could probably knock it up in a day.
Post by: zombie urist on August 28, 2015, 06:19:18 pm
Post by: Graknorke on August 28, 2015, 07:33:57 pm
But reading through did also make me notice that Parker's idea of altruism is giving money to parapsychology researchers. A pretty top kek.
Post by: Flying Dice on August 28, 2015, 07:38:01 pm
Post by: FearfulJesuit on October 28, 2015, 06:38:15 am
Post by: TheBiggerFish on October 28, 2015, 07:34:08 am
Post by: MarcAFK on October 28, 2015, 07:54:54 am
Primary challenges are: nobody wants to give money for this.
Post by: TempAcc on October 28, 2015, 08:12:37 am
I'm starting a school that isn't a school, where I will teach people in a language I dont speak, also I'll b hiring my friends from another country which doesn't know the language either.
Primary challenges are: nobody wants to give money for this.
Kinda sounds like Unbabel :v
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 28, 2015, 08:17:42 am
Stoned sweeaboo makes a Kickstarter. (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1127164769/premas-place-of-music-and-arts?ref=category_ending_soon)Wait so what is this actually? Overseas tutoring? School?
Post by: Graknorke on October 28, 2015, 08:49:47 am
A school but not a school. Weren't you reading?Stoned sweeaboo makes a Kickstarter. (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1127164769/premas-place-of-music-and-arts?ref=category_ending_soon)Wait so what is this actually? Overseas tutoring? School?
Post by: scriver on October 28, 2015, 10:06:09 am
Post by: Draco18s on October 28, 2015, 10:19:44 am
Quote
Primary challenge: I don't speak Swedish.
You're English isn't so good either.
Post by: Adragis on October 28, 2015, 10:21:51 am
...PTW.
Post by: Graknorke on October 28, 2015, 10:38:55 am
So he lives in Sweden but doesn't speak Swedish. Or English.QuotePrimary challenge: I don't speak Swedish.You're English isn't so good either.
What.
Post by: Reelya on October 28, 2015, 10:40:42 am
Oh lord:Kill me.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1993336622/am-i-psychic-mobile-app/
I'm afraid my psychokinetic gifts aren't up to that.
Quote
experimented using PRNG's for decades and the results show that humans are able to mentally influence the PRNG to become far less random and humans are able to correctly predict the exact moment the PRNG becomes more random or less random. (Pretty geeky and cool right?)
Biggest fucking load of shit I ever read. PRNGs are completely deterministic since they always produce the same set of numbers from the same seed. What scientists have likely found is that humans dupe themselves into believing they can influence the PRNG due to confirmation bias. PRNGs aren't actually random at all, so they can't be influenced to be "more random or less random". The only way to affect the outcome of a PRNG would be to literally mentally flip the bits inside your computer memory. And then you wouldn't even need to use a PRNG, people could literally flip the bits in their graphics card's memory to prove that they can psychically influence computers.
All this app is doing is generatings a series of numbers from 1-6 (simulated NON RANDOM dice rolls), then you get to guess the number. Now, you'll be right 1 in 6 times on average. What does that mean? It means 50% of people will get it right less than average, and 50% of people will get it right more than the average. So you can just say "wow, you got it right more than 1 in 6 times! You're psychic! ... to literally 50% of test takers. A basic confidence scam.
Post by: scriver on October 28, 2015, 10:47:53 am
So he lives in Sweden but doesn't speak Swedish. Or English.QuotePrimary challenge: I don't speak Swedish.You're English isn't so good either.
What.
Refugees.
Post by: TempAcc on October 28, 2015, 10:49:11 am
Post by: MarcAFK on October 28, 2015, 11:04:54 am
this is kind of how slot machines work, your subconscious thinks it can work out a pattern and tells you to keep trying for more information, almost every spin displays an almost jackpot which creates confirmation bias that helps the brainwashing, you think you have some control, even if consciously you "know" that it's all chance. It's not chance anyway, the whole thing is set up in a pattern designed to create small wins frequently enough to help provide rewards for continued play.Oh lord:Kill me.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1993336622/am-i-psychic-mobile-app/
I'm afraid my psychokinetic gifts aren't up to that.Quoteexperimented using PRNG's for decades and the results show that humans are able to mentally influence the PRNG to become far less random and humans are able to correctly predict the exact moment the PRNG becomes more random or less random. (Pretty geeky and cool right?)
Biggest fucking load of shit I ever read. PRNGs are completely deterministic since they always produce the same set of numbers from the same seed. What scientists have likely found is that humans dupe themselves into believing they can influence the PRNG due to confirmation bias. PRNGs aren't actually random at all, so they can't be influenced to be "more random or less random". The only way to affect the outcome of a PRNG would be to literally mentally flip the bits inside your computer memory. And then you wouldn't even need to use a PRNG, people could literally flip the bits in their graphics card's memory to prove that they can psychically influence computers.
All this app is doing is generatings a series of numbers from 1-6 (simulated NON RANDOM dice rolls), then you get to guess the number. Now, you'll be right 1 in 6 times on average. What does that mean? It means 50% of people will get it right less than average, and 50% of people will get it right more than the average. So you can just say "wow, you got it right more than 1 in 6 times! You're psychic! ... to literally 50% of test takers. A basic confidence scam.
Dopamine is involved. Hell that's how most mobile or pay to win games make their profit.
Post by: SealyStar on October 28, 2015, 01:04:14 pm
Stoned sweeaboo makes a Kickstarter. (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1127164769/premas-place-of-music-and-arts?ref=category_ending_soon)"Sweeaboo" is a hilarious term that I can use alongside "teeaboo" and "Koreaboo" now. Thanks.
Post by: Mattk50 on January 20, 2016, 09:13:43 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 20, 2016, 09:15:24 pm
Post by: Graknorke on January 21, 2016, 03:56:56 pm
??????? (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andreacook/pussy-power-party)mmm that typical feminist salt
- women are ashamed and need celebrating more
- attractive women don't exist
- literal allusions to special snowflakes
- feminism is most effective among upper middle class americans
- actually just hedonism celebrating an art project or something???
Post by: Loud Whispers on January 21, 2016, 05:01:20 pm
gotta be a troll, nobody is actually like thatno
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: gimli on February 02, 2016, 03:22:08 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 02, 2016, 03:28:11 pm
Post by: gimli on February 02, 2016, 03:49:41 pm
Post by: nenjin on February 02, 2016, 03:54:34 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on February 02, 2016, 04:06:05 pm
Quote
I don’t know why he’s painting that picture, but the reality is that anything that was spent in a bar or restaurant was very reasonable in nature when you look at any business, including video game companiesSo only three strippers per person?
Post by: IronyOwl on February 02, 2016, 04:08:48 pm
Quote from: Video
They had secretly spent the overwhelming majority of both our Kickstarter money and the Ant Simulator investment money on liquor, restaurants, bars, and even strippers.
Quote from: Part II
Speaking to Polygon, meanwhile, Tereshinski has clarified that his departure from the company was "not a problem of being out of money" and that the most that could have been lost was a few thousand.Sounds like he might have been stealing money (possibly using the justification of "I'm the only one doing any actual work"), was found out, and had to burn the plane to cover his bailout.
Post by: TempAcc on February 02, 2016, 04:10:29 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Pretty damn tragic and weird anyway, hope the truth gets found out, at least.
Post by: miauw62 on February 02, 2016, 05:02:55 pm
??????? (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andreacook/pussy-power-party)tbh "PoP art" is actually somewhat clever
Post by: PTTG?? on May 30, 2016, 12:56:09 pm
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1104354043/the-artisan-tortilla-maker
God damn people, squeeze a lump of dough and fry it for a second. You don't need a robot for this, especially not a robot that only makes coasters.
Post by: Aklyon on May 30, 2016, 12:59:42 pm
Post by: Draco18s on May 30, 2016, 04:53:00 pm
Post by: scriver on May 30, 2016, 06:05:12 pm
Does it even count as a robot? it looks like a cooking device.
It is the next evolutionary step of the Kitchenbot.
Post by: Sirus on May 30, 2016, 06:25:28 pm
This is the first time I've seen something I wanted to unsupport. Like, you bid a number and, if they still reach their goal, they have to pay you that amount.Or, y'know, go buy them at a store.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1104354043/the-artisan-tortilla-maker
God damn people, squeeze a lump of dough and fry it for a second. You don't need a robot for this, especially not a robot that only makes coasters.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on May 30, 2016, 06:27:56 pm
Heh.Does it even count as a robot? it looks like a cooking device.It is the next evolutionary step of the Kitchenbot.
Now I'm imagining a Kitchenbot Kickstarter.
Post by: MrWiggles on May 30, 2016, 11:03:48 pm
This is the first time I've seen something I wanted to unsupport. Like, you bid a number and, if they still reach their goal, they have to pay you that amount.That was painful to watch. Jesus Christ. Was one of the award levels to make your kid into an indigo child and a free trip to get a chelation therapy to remove vaccines?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1104354043/the-artisan-tortilla-maker
God damn people, squeeze a lump of dough and fry it for a second. You don't need a robot for this, especially not a robot that only makes coasters.
Post by: Draco18s on May 31, 2016, 12:22:31 pm
God I hate the "single serving packages" that Keurig made popular.
Post by: Aklyon on May 31, 2016, 12:46:29 pm
Post by: Sirus on May 31, 2016, 01:29:08 pm
Post by: nenjin on May 31, 2016, 02:55:39 pm
Post by: MarcAFK on May 31, 2016, 06:00:16 pm
They don't even make a good cup of coffee either, by my standards.By any standards really, Though they're technically almost completely recyclable if you bother pulling the cup apart, removing the metal and paper, and discarding the Soggy filter. People use those things for convienence so who is going to bother?
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 31, 2016, 06:53:02 pm
Post by: nenjin on May 31, 2016, 06:58:43 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on May 31, 2016, 10:16:06 pm
Post by: MarcAFK on May 31, 2016, 11:59:35 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on June 01, 2016, 11:30:37 pm
Post by: nenjin on June 01, 2016, 11:53:58 pm
Post by: Draco18s on June 02, 2016, 12:18:30 am
Until it gets cold.
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 02, 2016, 04:30:28 am
I like hot chocolate when it's got 4 shots of espresso in it.Then you put ice in it and blend it and you have iced mocha whatever
Until it gets cold.
Post by: MarcAFK on June 02, 2016, 11:46:15 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 02, 2016, 11:50:33 am
I've been drinking Tea Mochas, don't judge me.The Pete's near me does a mojito green tea infusion which my wife made me try. It's good. Judge me if you want.
Post by: Draco18s on June 02, 2016, 10:14:05 pm
Then you put ice in it and blend it and you have iced mocha whatever
Eh, I never really liked iced drinks. Cold drinks yes, iced no.
Post by: Dutrius on June 08, 2016, 09:04:42 am
They can make half-decent tea though.
To be fair, making a decent mug/cup/goblet/whatever of tea is easy. It's literally just hot water + teabag.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 08, 2016, 12:55:22 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on June 08, 2016, 01:08:30 pm
Teabagging hot water sounds like an unpleasant experience.It's either that or Xerxes whipping the shore
Post by: ChairmanPoo on June 08, 2016, 09:33:06 pm
This is the first time I've seen something I wanted to unsupport. Like, you bid a number and, if they still reach their goal, they have to pay you that amount.That was painful to watch. Jesus Christ. Was one of the award levels to make your kid into an indigo child and a free trip to get a chelation therapy to remove vaccines?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1104354043/the-artisan-tortilla-maker
God damn people, squeeze a lump of dough and fry it for a second. You don't need a robot for this, especially not a robot that only makes coasters.
What astonishes me is that I thought that they meant something completely different (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_omelette) by "tortilla". If they had meant that it would have been a somewhat useful (if crazy expensive) cooking robot
Post by: nenjin on June 08, 2016, 11:30:08 pm
Post by: Draco18s on October 24, 2016, 02:57:31 pm
Spurs are the equine equivalent of slapping a kid across the knuckles with a ruler when he gets the answer wrong.
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 24, 2016, 05:12:33 pm
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/246011508/handispur/My wife's reaction to this (she's pretty heavily into the whole equine thing) is basically "Yes some people use them and yes they're effective but you're training the horse to respond to a somewhat painful poke rather than the trainer's commands or pressure. It's better if the horse responds to you, rather than the poke."
Spurs are the equine equivalent of slapping a kid across the knuckles with a ruler when he gets the answer wrong.
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 24, 2016, 06:33:48 pm
My wife's reaction to this (she's pretty heavily into the whole equine thing) is basically "Yes some people use them and yes they're effective but you're training the horse to respond to a somewhat painful poke rather than the trainer's commands or pressure. It's better if the horse responds to you, rather than the poke."Why not both? Both sounds like a good idea, in case you can't give trainer commands or whatever else for whatever reason (like you're charging the Ottomans at the siege of Vienna for example and the din of battle with the clamour of so many cannons raining the heavens upon your head is making your horse rather skittish, drowning out the comforting sound of your shrieking voice desperately howling commands, thus rendering the poke of a spur the only possible way to keep your horse charging into the foe with the fury of a train that has no breaks and only engines, wheels and drunk train operators).
Post by: scriver on October 24, 2016, 06:40:15 pm
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 24, 2016, 06:41:40 pm
You're not doing that, though. You're keeping horses for sport or, well, competitive sport.What about pillaging Eurasia in the name of the great Khan, that would also be an acceptable alternative use for spurs
Post by: scriver on October 24, 2016, 06:56:18 pm
Post by: God in the Details on October 25, 2016, 03:05:53 am
You're not doing that either, and besides, proper Mongolians ride bareback and barefoot, controlling their other halves by whispering words of wind and thunder in their ears.Someone should write a book on how to do that. Perhaps they can get a Kickstarter.
Post by: Draco18s on October 25, 2016, 08:07:55 am
Someone should write a book on how to do that. Perhaps they can get a Kickstarter.
My mom has been trying to get her friend to write a book on various training topics for about two years now, but the other woman is stubborn. Agrees it needs to be done, but tries to delegate all the work back to my mother. Mom's like "I'd be happy to talk about ideas and do editing, but I can't write it for you."
She's got a blog (https://clickertraininghorses.wordpress.com/) though. Which has lots of written stuff. She just can't comprehend compiling it into a book (there's a lot of built-in self-degradation from when her mother told her "there you go trying to sell your nickel for a dollar again": the blog is free, I can't turn that into a book and charge people for it).
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 25, 2016, 08:32:03 am
That sounds like exactly the sort of things people throw money at in the hopes of success, plus there's a real danger of horseriding going the way of horses vs cars :<You're not doing that either, and besides, proper Mongolians ride bareback and barefoot, controlling their other halves by whispering words of wind and thunder in their ears.Someone should write a book on how to do that. Perhaps they can get a Kickstarter.
Post by: TempAcc on October 25, 2016, 08:34:38 am
Post by: Sergius on October 25, 2016, 10:13:22 am
Post by: Draco18s on October 27, 2016, 02:02:18 pm
What about spurs for cars? I bet that'll make them even faster.
Only if it (the spur) is red.
Post by: Skynet on October 30, 2016, 09:06:43 am
She's got a blog (https://clickertraininghorses.wordpress.com/) though. Which has lots of written stuff. She just can't comprehend compiling it into a book (there's a lot of built-in self-degradation from when her mother told her "there you go trying to sell your nickel for a dollar again": the blog is free, I can't turn that into a book and charge people for it).Then don't charge for it. Gitbook (http://gitbook.com) makes it easy to create e-books that can be read online or be freely downloadable for offline use.
You could then charge for a physical copy of the book that is created by some POD services, saying that the text is free, but that you have to pay for the experience of reading a physical copy of that text away from an electronic device. (Of course, even then, your mom's friend could argue you can just print out the e-book version of the text, but then the user has to pay for the printing costs and don't get an awesome cover with that e-book copy.)
Post by: Draco18s on October 30, 2016, 09:38:21 am
Then don't charge for it. Gitbook (http://gitbook.com) makes it easy to create e-books that can be read online or be freely downloadable for offline use.
You could then charge for a physical copy of the book that is created by some POD services, saying that the text is free, but that you have to pay for the experience of reading a physical copy of that text away from an electronic device. (Of course, even then, your mom's friend could argue you can just print out the e-book version of the text, but then the user has to pay for the printing costs and don't get an awesome cover with that e-book copy.)
I will suggest that, but I don't know if that's the solution either.
While a lot of the content is free, not all of it is. This sort of training is what she does for a living. It's how she's (trying) to make money. The problem is that people keep trying to find ways of not paying for it. e.g. people don't want to pay $20 for 6 hours worth of training videos just because the first 1 hour is available for free.
But thanks!
Post by: Karlito on May 13, 2018, 12:23:54 pm
Anyway, today I bring you a fantasy heart-breaker rpg/phone app/video game/MMO/Virtual Reality boondoggle (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/384256983/aventura-legacy/description).
Quote
At the age of 12 I was considered to be one of the most creative/inventive people in the United States (within 98-99% according to TCAP). I have earned degrees since then in Pre-Medical Sceinces and Anthropology from Pikes Peak Comminity College;
Just click forward to see unrotated photographs of hand-written notes, the amount you need to pledge to receive an LED light-up cap, and surprisingly, a lot of excellent constructive criticism in the comments section.
Post by: scriver on May 13, 2018, 12:39:21 pm
Post by: Il Palazzo on May 13, 2018, 01:02:30 pm
Anyway, today I bring you a fantasy heart-breaker rpg/phone app/video game/MMO/Virtual Reality boondoggle (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/384256983/aventura-legacy/description).That is a thing of beauty.
Post by: A Thing on May 13, 2018, 02:34:32 pm
Oh man, this thread has lain longer dead than I thought. Well, awful Kickstarters still exist, and they are still just as entertaining to hear about.
Anyway, today I bring you a fantasy heart-breaker rpg/phone app/video game/MMO/Virtual Reality boondoggle (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/384256983/aventura-legacy/description).QuoteAt the age of 12 I was considered to be one of the most creative/inventive people in the United States (within 98-99% according to TCAP). I have earned degrees since then in Pre-Medical Sceinces and Anthropology from Pikes Peak Comminity College;
Just click forward to see unrotated photographs of hand-written notes, the amount you need to pledge to receive an LED light-up cap, and surprisingly, a lot of excellent constructive criticism in the comments section.
Oh boy, 99% on the TCAP? This man must be a genius inventor!
Post by: Doomblade187 on May 13, 2018, 04:32:35 pm
Post by: Reelya on May 13, 2018, 04:49:32 pm
*: It's also a weird setup that he showed the custom dice, and the price per set for 100 sets, e.g. it's the quoted price for him getting custom dice made in bulk. It's just a really dumb idea to have special dice that aren't really that special, but it's also really dumb to actually quote your supplier's price to your proposed customers.
**: The logical problem here is that you need to pledge on the $55+ to get the gaming dice, and the supplier for the gaming dice takes a minimum order of 100 sets, for $9.50 per set. So ... he's banking that at least 100 people take the $55 tier or higher for that, and that leaves him with a bill of $950 just to get dice produced, out of $5500 in pledges! People can bring or buy their own dice cheaper than that, amd you can knock the tier down from $55 to $50 and he actually ends up with an extra $5 to spend on development that way.
Post by: Karlito on May 13, 2018, 04:59:23 pm
Post by: Reelya on May 13, 2018, 05:08:08 pm
(going through the video)
* "a breath of fresh air into the genre which hasn't been seen in decades" which "three books planned" which will "inspire gamers and intelligent minds". The way the narrator says "intelligent minds" here is especially annoying and condescending. You don't have to be exactly Einstein to work out that this whole claim is nonsense.
** especially since the entire setting for Aventura is the most hackneyed one possible: terran empire expands, meets multitude of humanoid alien races, then collapses via civil war into barbarism. Galaxy of adventure ensues with class-and-race based system.
***: next it claims RPG systems go through years of playtesting and refinement. However Aventura is set as a counter-example: the only RPG game in existence which has been "permanently refined" and needs no possible adjustment to the rules forever. Except for all the game books and modules they expect you to keep collecting, naturally.
****: also, D12s and stuff? If you want streamlined gameplay, reduce the types of different dice needed. e.g. D6s only, or a D10-only based system. That reduces the need for remembering which rule uses which dice.
Post by: Pancakes on May 13, 2018, 05:28:56 pm
Oh yeah, they don't even have a website setup for their "greatest minds in the nation" development team. This kickstarter is like poetry...
We need all your cash
For the most creative minds
To make bad board games
Post by: Reelya on May 13, 2018, 05:31:45 pm
Post by: Darkmere on May 13, 2018, 05:36:49 pm
The TCAP tests are, like all standardized tests, rigged to send the vast majority of people through the system. They're half-assed diagnostic tools and only affect the school's funding as far as I've ever heard. In short: "Do you know the bare minimum the government says we have to teach you? Yes? Cool, go away."
On the other hand... I appreciate that there is at least a decent chunk of effort already put in. I've seen people begging for money with far less. Still, can't even rotate a picture, though. Wow.
Post by: Reelya on May 13, 2018, 05:39:03 pm
For a "permanently refined" system that's been playtested for "years" by satisfied players, I find that odd.
It's also odd that "torso, stomach" and - probably since it's not labeled - "pelvis" are separate body locations, yet each arm isn't a distinct body location from each hand, nor is each foot a distinct body location from the legs. It would seem to make more sense to merge "torso"/"stomach"/"pelvis" into one location, and make at least the hands their own location, so you could have character who can lose a hand but have a weapon strapped to each forearm. That makes more gameplay sense than wondering whether hits were in the upper/middle/lower torso region.
What this feels like to me is someone who's eager but doesn't have much actual common sense about basic game design.
e.g. if I was coming up with a body location system it would be a table of location-vs-size, also no need to give left arm/leg/hand/foot separate designations, just list them as one body location. So you'd have head, neck, torso, arm, hand, leg, foot: 7 basic locations. Then, each one would be assigned a size, affecting chance-to-hit positively or negatively, and each body location would have a criticality chance to score a critical hit. Preferably reducing all this to a single percentile dice roll. e.g. if you target the hand you can knock a weapon out of someone's hand, but it's a small target, so you could target the arm, which is bigger/easier to hit, but less chance to knock the weapon out of the hand.
* Also, right below that, he's got D&D type magic spells, "third level spells" listed, and divided into "wizard" "sorceror" "enchanter" "summoner" and fucking "druid". Literally all those things were in AD&D 2nd ed. Except that in AD&D, there were common magic tables, rather than having a separate set of spells for every type of magic-user. This is actually looking like a more fucked-up and less flexible magic system, while also being grossly incongruous with the outer-space setting.
** now, I just got to the bit about how $75000 will allow him to make a phone app. I can make a shitty phone app for an RPG, as can just about anyone these days, without spending any money, since the tools to do so are all free.
*** Half a million for an MMO-RPG? No fucking way. That only pays 10 people for 1 year. It's not physically possible to get an MMO for that. Especially a galaxy-spanning RPG that includes hundreds of planets, space combat, both guns and magic, and 36 races etc etc. How many programmers does he think he needs, how many artists, how many community managers etc etc?
Post by: RoseHeart on May 13, 2018, 09:05:48 pm
Post by: Jopax on May 14, 2018, 04:01:06 am
Where I'm sure the thought process was that he saw some other game have a background illustration so just had to have one himself. But doing a digital one and printing it so it looks good and is useable is hard. Let's just draw one ourselves, who needs to read what their character sheet says anyways :V
Post by: Reelya on May 14, 2018, 05:12:32 am
Is nobody going to mention the sharpie painted space fighters on the character sheets?
Where I'm sure the thought process was that he saw some other game have a background illustration so just had to have one himself. But doing a digital one and printing it so it looks good and is useable is hard. Let's just draw one ourselves, who needs to read what their character sheet says anyways :V
Yeah I noticed that, but it's basically cheap art rather than a design flaw in the game itself. Still it fits the "kickstarter gone wrong" thing to a T.
Another type of design flaw is the character-generation system. It's just a mishmash of D&D house rules and kludges like "roll twice and take the highest score", rather than just adjusting the difficulty of stat checks so that they're balanced in the first place. e.g. a much simpler system than the choice given is to say that you roll the 12 stats once then get to do e.g. three swaps. Also, it's awful that there are 12 stats, and that he says there are myriad secondary stats that you need a calculator to work out.
Also, he has negative hitpoints that are half your total hitpoints. e.g. if someone has 120 HP you have to get them down to -60 to kill them. It's a very mechanical and boring idea, and again, could be avoided just by designing in better game-balance rather than just "more HP is better". Maybe a game which didn't use the HP idea at all might be more fun and narratively interesting?
Post by: Imic on May 14, 2018, 05:32:02 am
Post by: Teneb on May 14, 2018, 05:48:43 am
There are good things that come out of Kickstarter. Hollow knight. Cuphead. Etc.Yes, and? This thread is to celebrate the trainwrecks oft spawned on Kickstarter, not the good stuff.
Post by: Reelya on May 14, 2018, 05:55:09 am
However, I'm not sure about Cuphead: sources seem to contradict that that was funded with a kickstarter.
Post by: Imic on May 14, 2018, 05:59:38 am
Mighty No. 9, anyone?
Post by: KittyTac on May 14, 2018, 08:00:57 am
Post by: nenjin on May 14, 2018, 10:42:37 am
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 14, 2018, 11:33:48 am
Oh man, this thread has lain longer dead than I thought. Well, awful Kickstarters still exist, and they are still just as entertaining to hear about.
Anyway, today I bring you a fantasy heart-breaker rpg/phone app/video game/MMO/Virtual Reality boondoggle (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/384256983/aventura-legacy/description).QuoteAt the age of 12 I was considered to be one of the most creative/inventive people in the United States (within 98-99% according to TCAP). I have earned degrees since then in Pre-Medical Sceinces and Anthropology from Pikes Peak Comminity College;
Just click forward to see unrotated photographs of hand-written notes, the amount you need to pledge to receive an LED light-up cap, and surprisingly, a lot of excellent constructive criticism in the comments section.
Oh boy, 99% on the TCAP? This man must be a genius inventor!
That KS has to be a joke.
Post by: Teneb on May 14, 2018, 11:35:03 am
That KS has to be a joke.Did you actually click the link? There's way too much material in there for it to be a joke.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 14, 2018, 11:35:38 am
Edit: look at this
Quote
To Lance Goodale: Thank you for the intelligent questions, I did learn Akkadian or Cajun French as a kid, but can’t remember enough to slip most of the time lol, dyslexia always says it spelled right too.
Who the fuck claims to have learned fucking Akkadian as a kid? It *has* to be a joke.
I'm tempted to write an email to this guy and inquire.
Post by: Teneb on May 14, 2018, 11:46:42 am
I'm tempted to write an email to this guy and inquire.Do it. Post results.
For extra humour, run your email past an Akkadian translator website beforehand.
Post by: TamerVirus on May 14, 2018, 11:55:19 am
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 14, 2018, 12:07:00 pm
Here's a classic kickstarter fail: Project delayed because the sun said not to publish the game (http://kickfailure.com/2013/04/17/the-sad-story-of-katalyka/)Get this: she started another kickstaryer
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1820893788/eternal-war-of-the-candy-realms/description
Post by: Sirus on May 14, 2018, 03:58:51 pm
Here's a classic kickstarter fail: Project delayed because the sun said not to publish the game (http://kickfailure.com/2013/04/17/the-sad-story-of-katalyka/)That response to the claim that she is breaking the law by not delivering her paid-for products is...interesting.
Post by: Teneb on May 14, 2018, 05:05:19 pm
"What's that? You jaywalked? Then you can't call the cops on me, you criminal scum."Here's a classic kickstarter fail: Project delayed because the sun said not to publish the game (http://kickfailure.com/2013/04/17/the-sad-story-of-katalyka/)That response to the claim that she is breaking the law by not delivering her paid-for products is...interesting.
Post by: Reelya on May 14, 2018, 05:42:30 pm
She might actually be mentally ill. Those Candy Realm cards are borderline nightmare-inducing. She probably thinks they're cute, but they're actually a little alarming.Here's a classic kickstarter fail: Project delayed because the sun said not to publish the game (http://kickfailure.com/2013/04/17/the-sad-story-of-katalyka/)Get this: she started another kickstaryer
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1820893788/eternal-war-of-the-candy-realms/description
Post by: A Thing on May 14, 2018, 05:47:26 pm
Quote
Molly Friedrich 3-time creator 1 day ago
Being driven sane is partly a joke, and partly a comment about our culture's awkward narrative dissonance over sanity.
I've written in depth about my opinion on this topic on Twitter if you are curious, but the main point i was making is that there is no official way to establish "a purely sane" status.
Ie there's no "going sane" pathway that is clearly marked and agreed upon... what we call "sanity" is simply the determination that someone isn't a threat to themselves or others. Which seems like an okay stop-gap, but is very ignorant of the kind of relationship that life and death is seeking to create as its evolutionary opinion of sanity.
Mostly this subject boils down to food, and a culture that eats other races of plant and animal every day, while still calling themselves "non-racist".
A kid's game isn't really the best place to take on this subject on a real way tho.
I'm confused as to what this means.
Post by: Sirus on May 14, 2018, 05:59:00 pm
Post by: Il Palazzo on May 14, 2018, 06:07:17 pm
Post by: Sirus on May 14, 2018, 06:11:30 pm
She'd be better off by starting a kickstarted to get her therapy sessions. She could even offer her games as stretch goals."The sun forbade me from attending therapy. Thanks for the free money though."
Post by: Teneb on May 14, 2018, 06:27:50 pm
She amended it later to saying that it was actually the US Navy (the Sun was a ruse). Which... I mean, it's kind of an unusual pick since the US has folks like CIA to pin conspiracies on instead.She'd be better off by starting a kickstarted to get her therapy sessions. She could even offer her games as stretch goals."The sun forbade me from attending therapy. Thanks for the free money though."
Also apparently racism is not discriminating against other humans based on a shitty perversion of the concept of genetics or sometimes anthropology, but rather it is eating organic matter originating from living organisms.
Post by: Sirus on May 14, 2018, 06:33:02 pm
Might be a Flat Earther; I hear some of them think that "Antarctica" is actually an enormous ice wall that marks the edge of the world, and the world's navies constantly patrol the ice wall to destroy anyone coming too close to it.She amended it later to saying that it was actually the US Navy (the Sun was a ruse). Which... I mean, it's kind of an unusual pick since the US has folks like CIA to pin conspiracies on instead.She'd be better off by starting a kickstarted to get her therapy sessions. She could even offer her games as stretch goals."The sun forbade me from attending therapy. Thanks for the free money though."
Also apparently racism is not discriminating against other humans based on a shitty perversion of the concept of genetics or sometimes anthropology, but rather it is eating organic matter originating from living organisms.
Post by: Teneb on May 14, 2018, 06:34:10 pm
One thing I always wonder about flat-earth (and hollow-earth) theories is... what is even outside the world in this cosmology of theirs?Might be a Flat Earther; I hear some of them think that "Antarctica" is actually an enormous ice wall that marks the edge of the world, and the world's navies constantly patrol the ice wall to destroy anyone coming too close to it.She amended it later to saying that it was actually the US Navy (the Sun was a ruse). Which... I mean, it's kind of an unusual pick since the US has folks like CIA to pin conspiracies on instead.She'd be better off by starting a kickstarted to get her therapy sessions. She could even offer her games as stretch goals."The sun forbade me from attending therapy. Thanks for the free money though."
Also apparently racism is not discriminating against other humans based on a shitty perversion of the concept of genetics or sometimes anthropology, but rather it is eating organic matter originating from living organisms.
Post by: Il Palazzo on May 14, 2018, 06:36:15 pm
Post by: Reelya on May 14, 2018, 08:49:58 pm
Quote
(and hollow-earth) theories is
My dad once gave me a copy of a magazine Ancient Aliens that he'd bought, I don't really know why.
One of the articles mentioned on the cover was "Hitler: Unwitting Pawn Of the Tibetan Mind Masters?"
Note, that the Tibetan Mind Masters thing basically originated with traditional tibetan mystic beliefs about a hollow Earth, and the conspiracy-theory version holds that there's a huge worldwide network of tunnels occupied by evil Tibetan overlords who use telepathy to influence the world above. And people were writing about this on the assumption that it was a real thing up to at least the 1980s.
Post by: TamerVirus on May 14, 2018, 09:44:33 pm
there's a huge worldwide network of tunnels occupied by evil Tibetan overlords who use telepathy to influence the world above.
Is that what they called subways?
Post by: Reelya on May 14, 2018, 10:01:24 pm
https://www.gaia.com/lp/content/hollow-earth-theory-is-the-subterranean-civilization-of-agartha-real/
Quote
Is there evidence of a civilization or atmosphere capable of harboring life deep beneath the Earth’s surface? While a lot of the information we receive from NASA and environmental agencies is probably accurate, there is still much to be discovered about our planet and maybe some things that have been kept secret. And no, this isn’t an article advocating the Flat Earth conspiracy, but what about the Hollow Earth theory? Is it just as crazy or is their evidence that there is a civilization known as Agartha deep inside our planet?
That's the Tibetan Mind Masters link I mentioned in connection with the Nazi/Tibet link: the hollow earth realm is supposedly accessible / the same as Agartha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agartha), which was supposed to be in Tibet. Shambala / Shangri-la is supposedly the capital or connected to the secret underground empire of Agartha, and this all links together when you start reading about how the Nazis were apparently influenced by Agartha in Tibet (https://info-buddhism.com/Nazis-of-Tibet-A-Twentieth-Century-Myth_Engelhardt.html). e.g. not all the articles point it all out, but a few do connect all the dots: saying Nazis were influenced by Agartha is really saying that Nazis were in contact / influenced by a vast secret underground empire ruled by Himalayan Asians.
e.g. the image that was intended to be invoked of the Mind Masters of Tibet was of little Asian guys in traditional Chinese outfits with Fu Manchu moustaches, using mind-control rays from their secret subterranean tunnel network to influence the surface world. e.g. a vast secret underground empire of telepathic Ming the Merciless lookalikes from the old Flash Gordon stories.
Post by: AzyWng on May 14, 2018, 10:06:16 pm
Post by: Karlito on May 14, 2018, 10:45:35 pm
That KS has to be a joke.
I don't think it's a joke, I think it's like strange unskilled outsider art (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outsider_art). This guy has been playing his weird homebrew D&D game for a decade completely unaware of the flourishing scene in indie tabletop RPGs. He's heard of Kickstarter, but has no conception of what a good kickstarter page looks like, or what kind of RPG products get backed. Because he's disconnected from these communities, and has never created a product usable by people, he overestimates his skills in things like game design, project management, salesmanship, spelling, etc.
Post by: Reelya on May 14, 2018, 10:57:00 pm
I especially like the bit where he claims it's extra-realistic because it takes real-world physics into account, and the evidence for that is that he calibrated physical performance off of real world records for e.g. running. So i'm guessing that if you've got 100 in athletics or something, you're literally Usain Bolt. And with the "roll twice and pick the highest" rule for character design, then that means that 1 in 50 playable characters with be as fast as Usain Bolt, and that 75% of the population will be at least half as fast as Usain Bolt (e.g. if you roll 50%+ on the first dice, or you roll 50%+ on the second dice). And, corollary to that, 50% of the entire population will be at least 70% the speed of Usain Bolt.
Post by: nenjin on May 15, 2018, 12:04:05 am
Something occurred to me while I was reliving the highlights though....
Bucky missed his window by a couple years. Back then, this kind of unreasonable shit wouldn't and didn't fly. Rank amateurs saying outlandish and preposterous things, banking on their "charm" and money to get the supporters they needed.....was laughable back then.
Now.....? If Bucky had tried to Kickstarter Your World today, he'd have been hailed as a visionary and floated to sublime, legendary success with his game. Crazy what a difference 5 years can make.
Post by: Reelya on May 15, 2018, 12:13:27 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Gamers don't necessarily know what will make a game that they want to play. e.g. imagine if you're scripting a TV show and each episode, you poll the viewers for what they want to happen next. Greatest show ever, right? lol
Post by: nenjin on May 15, 2018, 12:37:31 am
Post by: ChairmanPoo on May 15, 2018, 02:18:56 am
Well, I assume that if you take at face value tbe KS you also take at face value his claim of speaking akkadian. And given that noone has in the last 2500 years give or take, yeah, in this scenario where we accept he's actually Sargon the Great's nephew he HAS been out of touchThat KS has to be a joke.
I don't think it's a joke, I think it's like strange unskilled outsider art (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outsider_art). This guy has been playing his weird homebrew D&D game for a decade completely unaware of the flourishing scene in indie tabletop RPGs. He's heard of Kickstarter, but has no conception of what a good kickstarter page looks like, or what kind of RPG products get backed. Because he's disconnected from these communities, and has never created a product usable by people, he overestimates his skills in things like game design, project management, salesmanship, spelling, etc.
Post by: Reelya on May 15, 2018, 04:16:04 am
Quote
I did learn Akkadian or Cajun French as a kid
Here he means he picked up a bit of both dialects of French, not two different languages. The "or" there is what got my attention, so I googled "akkadian French" and got the answer to the puzzle. He would have written "and" if he meant two distinct languages.
Post by: Imic on May 15, 2018, 04:17:21 am
The.
Sanity.
Post by: scriver on May 15, 2018, 04:33:19 am
Quote(and hollow-earth) theories is
My dad once gave me a copy of a magazine Ancient Aliens that he'd bought, I don't really know why.
One of the articles mentioned on the cover was "Hitler: Unwitting Pawn Of the Tibetan Mind Masters?"
Note, that the Tibetan Mind Masters thing basically originated with traditional tibetan mystic beliefs about a hollow Earth, and the conspiracy-theory version holds that there's a huge worldwide network of tunnels occupied by evil Tibetan overlords who use telepathy to influence the world above. And people were writing about this on the assumption that it was a real thing up to at least the 1980s.
Well the Tibetan Empire must have gone somewhere.
Post by: Teneb on May 15, 2018, 04:42:00 am
Well the Tibetan Empire must have gone somewhere.I, for one, welcome our new Tibetan underlords.
Post by: Reelya on May 15, 2018, 04:51:45 am
(https://d1466nnw0ex81e.cloudfront.net/n_iv/600/4505863.jpg)
"Germans excorsizing ancient spirits from little girls" sounds like the plot of an anime. I wonder if they're from the same alien babies that were given to mothers then raised on the alien poison in McDonalds? but it doesn't matter because when they get old they'll be abducted by the aliens anyway, and in any case the Earth is about to be destroyed by the giant alien spacecraft, which they are providing a helpful guide to when to view it. But anyway, the other saucers are making us insane with their space rays so we won't even care.
And those are just the cover stories in a single issue. Wow. I think the issue about Hitler being mind-controlled by subterranean Tibetans was less alarming than this issue.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on May 15, 2018, 09:37:36 am
Post by: TamerVirus on May 15, 2018, 10:17:58 am
Quote
Horror in Lumsville: Saucers make everyone insane!
Real hard hitting journalism here. Going directly to Liberia for that UFO scoop
Post by: Sensei on May 15, 2018, 12:08:44 pm
On topic content tax:
Redlight Greenlight: "We'll Watch The Light For You" (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/redlight-greenlight-cars#/)
(https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/c_limit,w_695/v1520015120/ekayy5hkebqvvue6482g.jpg)
Are you an absolute piece of shit? If you can't stop looking at your phone while driving, this project is for you.
Quote
Redlight Greenlight is a driving accessory that links directly to your phone alerting you when the stoplight turns green. Take back your time behind the wheel with this easy-to-use device. For the person on the go, maximize your driving experience where every minute counts.Yes, a camera that looks at stop lights so you don't have to look up from your phone. Supposedly it can spot pedestrians in front of your car too, implying that, no, you aren't expected to actually put your phone down before you start moving. For only $150 (plus shipping) you can own this device which is literally illegal to use in most US states and will result in an expensive ticket at best and death or serious injury at worst. Don't worry, they only reached $1384 of their $1,000,000 goal before closing. At least they asked for a reasonable budget to design and develop a consumer electronics device they've only conceptualized (despite showing a video which makes it look like they have functional models now, which would get a Kickstarter promptly shut down but apparently flies on IndieGoGo). For the full experience though, you really do need to see the video (https://youtu.be/pasnq9nAsYw). Again, the production value is high enough that the video alone surely cost more than $1384 they raised (not that they keep that money anyway). It warms my heart to think they lost money on this.
Post by: PTTG?? on June 16, 2018, 12:52:06 am
Post by: Rose on June 16, 2018, 01:18:39 am
Post by: Sergius on June 19, 2018, 10:19:16 am
Or, it's legit, but it fills the car interior with deadly neurotoxin for the safety of everybody around you.
For the people who are still alive.