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Author Topic: American Election Megathread - It's Over  (Read 715547 times)

SalmonGod

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3870 on: June 14, 2012, 10:58:07 pm »

The CIA is pretty damn evil, manipulative, secretive, and all that, but luckily they're usually incompetent too.

Frankly I don't think the US government could pull of a big conspiracy. Small ones maybe.

But it's not the government that's behind any conspiracy.  Government officials are just employees of their corporate sponsors.  It's not a conspiracy in the sense that everything is intentionally planned, either.  It's just a powerful, loosely affiliated social class each leveraging their best interests.  This means competition between them probably just as much as united causes, but in either case the lower classes are always losing something.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Bauglir

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3871 on: June 15, 2012, 06:45:00 am »

But it's not the government that's behind any conspiracy.  Government officials are just employees of their corporate sponsors.  It's not a conspiracy in the sense that everything is intentionally planned, either.  It's just a powerful, loosely affiliated social class each leveraging their best interests.  This means competition between them probably just as much as united causes, but in either case the lower classes are always losing something.
This. You don't need an Evil Council, clandestine meetings, or cryptic words and special handshakes to believe that a number of only tangentially-related efforts to obtain personal power happen to dovetail terribly from the perspective of anybody who's not fantastically wealthy.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

alway

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3872 on: June 15, 2012, 11:09:39 pm »

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/13/obama-trade-document-leak_n_1592593.html

Obama selling out American sovereignity to foreign megacorps. Romney urging him to get it done faster. This election is FUCKED.

Welcome to Shadowrun, is more like it.

Although the key point here is that the tribunal can impose trade sanctions, not just carte blanche nullify U.S. law. But no country wants trade sanctions imposed on it, and that's the sort of backroom decision that it seems like would be made more often than not. I imagine the sales pitch is something about global financial stability and economic stimulation....but when the IMF is saying it's a bad idea, that idea doesn't really track. Obama's ready approval of this Corporate One-World-Government thing is getting downright creepy, and infuriating. Even if he believes this is all necessary to re-stimulate the global economy, it's incredibly short-sighted. (Or has a diabolically long view, if you take the conspiracy position.)
Some times I like to take the view point that it is just a giant conspiracy theory. At least then I could be save in the knowledge that my government wasn't stupid or incompetent, it was just working on a giant plan for world domination. Then I could rest safe in the knowledge that while everyone was mocking America for doing stupid things like allowing money to flood the political system or invading Iraq, it was all part of the shadow governments plan. The botched attempt to solve the global recession is just what the shadow governments needs to cement it's power, and the partisan ship is merely a distraction.
That's actually the main psychological reason conspiracy theories are so attractive. Our minds don't like it when things just happen spontaneously and without some overarching plan or reason. Sort of like when you stare at the output of a random number generator and your brain tries to decipher the pattern within the output, over and over again, until you end up getting frustrated, despite there being no pattern in the data and consciously knowing such.

As a side note, Bay12 needs cryptic words and special handshakes.
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Gantolandon

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3873 on: June 16, 2012, 05:58:41 am »

Quote
As a side note, Bay12 needs cryptic words and special handshakes.

We already have cryptic words. Most of the world doesn't use "catsplosion", "Urist", or "HFS" in normal conversation.
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Mr. Palau

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3874 on: June 16, 2012, 09:15:13 am »

Sort of like when you stare at the output of a random number generator and your brain tries to decipher the pattern within the output, over and over again, until you end up getting frustrated, despite there being no pattern in the data and consciously knowing such.
Actually there is a logic behind a random number generator, since there is a program dictating the output. There is a pattern, it's just that it is really complicated.
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you can't just go up to people and get laid.

kaijyuu

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3875 on: June 16, 2012, 09:57:53 am »

Sort of like when you stare at the output of a random number generator and your brain tries to decipher the pattern within the output, over and over again, until you end up getting frustrated, despite there being no pattern in the data and consciously knowing such.
Actually there is a logic behind a random number generator, since there is a program dictating the output. There is a pattern, it's just that it is really complicated.
Yes and no. An RNG pulls a number from a string of pre-generated numbers. You have to know more than just the algorithm and seed to figure out what the number will be, you have to know the entire table as well.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

Sheb

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3876 on: June 16, 2012, 10:03:38 am »

How does it pull a number from the table at random? It would need to generate a random number for that. (RNGception?)
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3877 on: June 16, 2012, 10:05:59 am »

You can, however, get true random numbers through measuring radioactive decay.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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kaijyuu

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3878 on: June 16, 2012, 10:09:42 am »

How does it pull a number from the table at random? It would need to generate a random number for that. (RNGception?)
That's what a seed is. You take a number from an arbitrary place (be it random data from previous operations, the time, user input, etc), stick it in the RNG algorithm, and out pops a "random" number. Give it the same seed and you'll get the same output.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

Rose

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3879 on: June 16, 2012, 10:27:19 am »

It's not, however, a table. table implies that they're all stored in a list. they aren't. there's just some complex mathematical trickery to change a seed into the output.
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Duuvian

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3880 on: June 16, 2012, 10:54:15 am »

From: http://keepthewebopen.com/tpp

I read the whole thing and I pulled out things I thought were noteworthy or that I would like to see changed.
According to The Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPP) Intellectual Property Rights Chapter at the above link, as far as I can determine:


While I don't expect it to a problem in America, it would be exceptionally easy for a single corporation to utilize it to corner the export sector(s) of a given country or area and have their export monopoly be legally protected by international law. This is extremely worrying to me and unfair to the citizens of those countries. This should be changed.

Not as important:



IP Law:





Spoiler: More good law (click to show/hide)





Finally, I don't think destruction of hardware is necessary. According to this law any type of equipment used in piracy is to be confiscated and destroyed by the authorities. If it must be taken temporarily for an investigation I grudgingly accept that, but after the investigation is through it should be returned in working condition wiped of infringing content and with all other content intact.

EDIT: Also I can't seem to make an account on that site so I can't direct viewers of that page to my post here on B12. Can someone do me a small favor and link to my post here in their comments section in the off chance the respectable Congressman Issa would be interested in the content of my post or if you yourself would be interested in his reading it?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 11:58:44 am by Duuvian »
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FINISHED original composition:
https://app.box.com/s/jq526ppvri67astrc23bwvgrkxaicedj

Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
https://www.box.com/s/s3oba05kh8mfi3sorjm0 <-zguit

Gantolandon

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3881 on: June 16, 2012, 01:40:24 pm »

Quote
Finally, I don't think destruction of hardware is necessary. According to this law any type of equipment used in piracy is to be confiscated and destroyed by the authorities. If it must be taken temporarily for an investigation I grudgingly accept that, but after the investigation is through it should be returned in working condition wiped of infringing content and with all other content intact.

I think it's extremely generous of you.

For me most of these snips are one colossal WTF.
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Duuvian

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3882 on: June 16, 2012, 01:42:38 pm »

Quote
Finally, I don't think destruction of hardware is necessary. According to this law any type of equipment used in piracy is to be confiscated and destroyed by the authorities. If it must be taken temporarily for an investigation I grudgingly accept that, but after the investigation is through it should be returned in working condition wiped of infringing content and with all other content intact.

I think it's extremely generous of you.

For me most of these snips are one colossal WTF.

W2G. You do know that site allows you to suggest modifications to the law so if you disagree, you could, you know, put forth an effort and try to do something about changing the law.

Also, were you serious or sarcastic? I don't know if you're attacking my post or agreeing with it. I'm thinking attacking it. Did you not agree with the spoilers contents, because those are straight from the chapter Issa posted on that site? I only wrote the spoiler headers and things outside of spoilers.

I apologize if you are agreeing with me, my misunderstanding.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 01:50:17 pm by Duuvian »
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FINISHED original composition:
https://app.box.com/s/jq526ppvri67astrc23bwvgrkxaicedj

Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
https://www.box.com/s/s3oba05kh8mfi3sorjm0 <-zguit

palsch

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3883 on: June 16, 2012, 02:06:04 pm »

Re: Geographical Indication;

If this is the same principle as I'm familiar with from European law it isn't anywhere near as expansive as all that.

The classical example is Champaign. Champaign is, under European law, sparkling wine produced in the Champaign region. I can produce and sell sparkling wine elsewhere, even using the exact same processes and grapes. I can't call it Champaign.

Similarly there can be (and obviously are) multiple companies producing Champaign within the region, each with their own brands and trademarks. The geographical indication is an extra layer of protection for the region as a whole, not for any individual company. In a sense it's somewhere between a generic term ('cheese') and a trademarked term ('Grayson cheese' - a US brand where a regional term is actually the trademark of a single company). Multiple companies can use the term while it's still protected against general use.

In the US this sort of exists, although at a slight remove. In most of these cases a US state has trademarked a particular term (Florida oranges for example) and then these terms are licensed freely within the state while blocking people outside the state using it.

I can't really tell whether this simplifies, complicates, corrects or completely fucks up the current state of such trademark laws. That's because the whole area is incredibly complex and spread across several treaties and national/regional laws. I'm not even sure the US has addressed the issues in federal law, while I'm pretty sure they are party to treaties that at least cover wine and spirits. However, compared to the European laws I'm glancingly familiar with, all that language looks fairly standard and basic.


On the copyright front (GIs are a subset of trademarks, so it's all IP law so far) that simply repeats current American copyright law. Life+70 or 95 for corporate held copyrights. This seems to be pretty similar to ACTA in that it takes current American copyright law and globalises it via trade treaty. The idea of standardising that globally is pretty disgusting but really not surprising (and desirable from a US government POV). All the original pushes for copyright reform seem to have lost steam and are now busy fighting anti-piracy laws, so seeing actual fixes to copyright is a pipe dream. This kind of treaty makes that fight harder simply because it strengthens the status-quo rather than actually expanding copyright law in any substantial way.


The patent law bit is fairly restrictive. Right now there is serious debate over the ability to patent plants, animals, genetic structures and various medically significant inventions (drugs, surgical procedures, etc). This requires member nations to allow patents on at least a subset of these (and I'm not sure that the language won't be read as more expansive). The standards for exemptions here seem fairly high, or at least could be read that way. Taking the worst possible reading this could really restrict access to certain medical and other resources in poorer nations. Being able to patent certain crops or livestock can be devastating to agriculture. Similarly the idea of having patented surgical procedures in nations where there is already minimal medical infrastructure is terrifying.


On the border crossing part, that exemption is nice. I've heard this proposal (copyright checks on the border) many times and current law and technology makes it fairly toothless anyway. For one thing, current law doesn't require you give over your password for such checks, so unless you have an unlocked computer in the immigration line you should be OK. Then there is the problem of establishing that material is infringing from simply seeing it on a hard drive. The only real way would be if you had obviously broken DRM to, say, rip DVDs that couldn't otherwise be on your disk unprotected, or if you had obvious history of illegal downloads (the torrents still open, browser history, etc). Finally, even if you did have to hand over your password and had obviously illegal (or private) materials, it's easy enough to create a plausibly deniable encrypted partition on any computer. There is pretty much no way that could be detected without a detailed forensic check of your computer, and even then they need to get your second password out of you before establishing you have any illegal material there.
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Gantolandon

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3884 on: June 16, 2012, 02:17:26 pm »

Quote
Finally, I don't think destruction of hardware is necessary. According to this law any type of equipment used in piracy is to be confiscated and destroyed by the authorities. If it must be taken temporarily for an investigation I grudgingly accept that, but after the investigation is through it should be returned in working condition wiped of infringing content and with all other content intact.

I think it's extremely generous of you.

For me most of these snips are one colossal WTF.

W2G. You do know that site allows you to suggest modifications to the law so if you disagree, you could, you know, put forth an effort and try to do something about changing the law.

Also, were you serious or sarcastic? I don't know if you're attacking my post or agreeing with it. I'm thinking attacking it. Did you not agree with the spoilers contents, because those are straight from the chapter Issa posted on that site? I only wrote the spoiler headers and things outside of spoilers.

I apologize if you are agreeing with me, my misunderstanding.

I was sarcastic, because you seem to agree with most of these stuff. I view it a bit differently and the only modification a could suggest to them is "delete this crap and never mention it again".

Seriously - what's this document is supposed to do is to force the most stupid and restrictive aspects of American IP laws on other countries. I can't see any justification for anyone to have an inclusive right to profit from a creative work for 120 years. I don't think it's reasonable to force infringers to pay neither 3x nor 1.1x the infringed content's value. Patenting medical procedures, animals or plants is a terrible idea and potentially damaging to the countries' healthcare and farming. This treaty is not reasonable, it's ridiculous.
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