Australia already has it's own thread though.
I wonder, does the latest russian road trip to Syria, along with its "international volunteers" ease up the situation in East Ukraine?It is much calmer last few weeks. There are no artillery strikes, few small arms firefights + "mine war". I doubt that it will end in a lasting peace but so far it looks like an actual ceasefire.
Meanwhile Putin rating is 90 % ( at least not 146%)Why not 900%?
It should be 99.999999999999999999% for the lulz.
Meanwhile Putin rating is 90 % ( at least not 146%)Why not 900%?
Putin: So great that 3/2 of all people support him.Vote for Putin 5ever, that's +1 than 4
Meanwhile Putin rating is 90 % ( at least not 146%)Why not 900%?
Because 146 % is local russian meme.
During duma elections in 2011 on federal channel the voting results were shown, and in some regions the sum of percents magically surpassed the 100.
Like : 58,99 % voted for united Russia, 32 % for communist party 23 % for liberal democratic party, 1,46 % for patriots of Russia, 9,32 voted for apple, and some guys for right deed. And the highest of overall percents surpassing 100 was 146
Why is there so much focus in English-speaking media on Putin's "masculine body", anyway? I don't get it.
Why is there so much focus in English-speaking media on Putin's "masculine body", anyway? I don't get it.Because it's incredibly far removed from anything that Western politicians would do. Post-heroic societies don't really do the whole strongman thing.
Why is there so much focus in English-speaking media on Putin's "masculine body", anyway? I don't get it.Because it's incredibly far removed from anything that Western politicians would do. Post-heroic societies don't really do the whole strongman thing.
Why is there so much focus in English-speaking media on Putin's "masculine body", anyway? I don't get it.Because it's incredibly far removed from anything that Western politicians would do. Post-heroic societies don't really do the whole strongman thing.
Why is there so much focus in English-speaking media on Putin's "masculine body", anyway? I don't get it.Because it's incredibly far removed from anything that Western politicians would do. Post-heroic societies don't really do the whole strongman thing.
Tony Abbott got into that action however (do not click this link (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=abbott+speedo&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=CKEzVtNNx7ebBeKUmrgC#) this for your own sake).
Why is there so much focus in English-speaking media on Putin's "masculine body", anyway? I don't get it.Because his manboobs are 10000% pure sex.
Apple ( yablako) is such political party in Russia, no they are not connected with iphones.Apple is haram in Russia because Tim Cook has the Gay.
Apple ( yablako) is such political party in Russia, no they are not connected with iphones.
There is first russian army casaulty in Syria ( or first not top sikrit, much sikrit)
Wondering, if supporting Assad and making war in syria grow in scale increases flow of refugees to europe, and if Putin wanted that to happen.
Why is there so much focus in English-speaking media on Putin's "masculine body", anyway? I don't get it.The West is gay
Putin is probably "encouraging" any muslims living in Russia to move westward.As we are yet to see millions of muslims show up in Poland or Ukraine I doubt that
Just saw this video, little offtopic but, funny as hell and unfortunately somewhat true (its a parody video so translation is not correct)Heh, Brits get their own flag and other Europeans get none
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtQZwXOb3_QSpoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Putin is probably "encouraging" any muslims living in Russia to move westward.I think Muslims living in Russia encouraging Russians to move westwards is a more likely scenario
Putin is probably "encouraging" any muslims living in Russia to move westward.I think Muslims living in Russia encouraging Russians to move westwards is a more likely scenario
Russian airliner crash in central Sinai, no survivors. The article doesn't mention it yet, but there were also a few Ukranians onboard as well.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/31/middleeast/egypt-plane-crash/index.html
People has been hating Russia and Russians for centuries, it's nothing new.Russian airliner crash in central Sinai, no survivors. The article doesn't mention it yet, but there were also a few Ukranians onboard as well.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/31/middleeast/egypt-plane-crash/index.html
By reading Ukrainian segment of social networks I can say that not a trivial number of people are celebrating this event. This makes me sad. Hope Russians are happy that their actions created millions hating them enough to be happy with deaths of random people
Getting your country invaded is "superficial reason" now? :p
More seriously, do we know why that plane crashed? There are plenty of islamists in the Sinai...
Getting your country invaded is "superficial reason" now? :p
More seriously, do we know why that plane crashed? There are plenty of islamists in the Sinai...
Getting your country invaded is "superficial reason" now? :p
More seriously, do we know why that plane crashed? There are plenty of islamists in the Sinai...
If you want to kill islamists on the Sinai there are better ways to do it than crashing a plane into them.
We Westerners are jelly because we haven't had a hawt president since forever.Canada's prime minister. :P
People are expressing hate for superficial reasons on social networks? What a new and shocking development. Not.I think it is easier to believe that it is usual shitposting from trolls with no real life.
Russian airliner crash in central Sinai, no survivors. The article doesn't mention it yet, but there were also a few Ukranians onboard as well.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/31/middleeast/egypt-plane-crash/index.html
By reading Ukrainian segment of social networks I can say that not a trivial number of people are celebrating this event. This makes me sad. Hope Russians are happy that their actions created millions hating them enough to be happy with deaths of random people
I think you're in the wrong thread Martinuzz. Not sure if that would go in the mideast thread or the actual EU thread though.
Also, why the hell would you have to treat the refugees as POWs? They're non-combatants.Well that's exactly the point. Said lawyer claims they are not non-combatants, with the majority of the refugees being men of fighting age.
Though I get what you're saying with them being potential ISIS fighters, which puts a real crimp in the Geneva convention because that assumes two nations at war.
Because the Netherlands are part of the EU.but it's a national issue, not an EU one
Sultan just won with absolute parliamentary majority.
Blame LW who decided to replace the Eurothread by a EU thread. :pI thought it'd be rude to not differentiate
The Erdogan SultanateSultan just won with absolute parliamentary majority.Sultan of what though?
but it look like they'll stay over the 10% threshold needed to get into parliament and prevent Erdogan from re-writing the Constitution.Yup, they did. A glimpse of hope, I guess.
From what I've seen, the constitutional change that Erdogan wants, to give the president more power, resembles the US model more than it does the Russia-Putin model.
From what I've seen, the constitutional change that Erdogan wants, to give the president more power, resembles the US model more than it does the Russia-Putin model.
Isn't it the other way around? That the president has more power in the Russian model than the US one?
The latest U.S. intelligence suggests that the crash of a Russian passenger jet in the Sinai over the weekend was most likely caused by a bomb on the plane planted by ISIS or an ISIS affiliate, according to a U.S. official familiar with the matter.
Quote from: CNNThe latest U.S. intelligence suggests that the crash of a Russian passenger jet in the Sinai over the weekend was most likely caused by a bomb on the plane planted by ISIS or an ISIS affiliate, according to a U.S. official familiar with the matter.
I am curious how will Russian public react on this if it is a bomb
Quote from: CNNThe latest U.S. intelligence suggests that the crash of a Russian passenger jet in the Sinai over the weekend was most likely caused by a bomb on the plane planted by ISIS or an ISIS affiliate, according to a U.S. official familiar with the matter.
I am curious how will Russian public react on this if it is a bomb
Quote from: CNNThe latest U.S. intelligence suggests that the crash of a Russian passenger jet in the Sinai over the weekend was most likely caused by a bomb on the plane planted by ISIS or an ISIS affiliate, according to a U.S. official familiar with the matter.
I am curious how will Russian public react on this if it is a bomb
Blame America, directly or indirectly?
I don't think so. If Ukraine would wage unnecessary war that attracted terrorists to Ukrainian citizens... We'd have few hundreds of thousands on the streets protesting against such war.Quote from: CNNThe latest U.S. intelligence suggests that the crash of a Russian passenger jet in the Sinai over the weekend was most likely caused by a bomb on the plane planted by ISIS or an ISIS affiliate, according to a U.S. official familiar with the matter.
I am curious how will Russian public react on this if it is a bomb
Probably the same as Ukranians would if it were only Ukranians on there and Ukraine was actively fighting ISIS and being on the same side as Assad.
I don't think so. If Ukraine would wage unnecessary war that attracted terrorists to Ukrainian citizens... We'd have few hundreds of thousands on the streets protesting against such war.Quote from: CNNThe latest U.S. intelligence suggests that the crash of a Russian passenger jet in the Sinai over the weekend was most likely caused by a bomb on the plane planted by ISIS or an ISIS affiliate, according to a U.S. official familiar with the matter.
I am curious how will Russian public react on this if it is a bomb
Probably the same as Ukranians would if it were only Ukranians on there and Ukraine was actively fighting ISIS and being on the same side as Assad.
BTW, If Ukrainian President would dare to ignore any disaster that took hundreds of lives of Ukrainian citizens and give no speech on the TV like Putin did... I can't even imagine what kind of shitstorm would start.
Well, at least our society is literally invulnerable to terrorism. That seems like an advantage in modern world.
That point is not going to work against UR, anyway. He'll say "If Ukraine was in the same position as Russia doing the same things, it would be Ukraine-In-Name-Only a la what Ukraine was during Yanuk's rule" or that it would still be different from Russia because of fundamental differences in mentality or something.Well, at least our society is literally invulnerable to terrorism. That seems like an advantage in modern world.
You're not helping the point I'm making (though not sure if you caught onto the point I was making).
Well, a bomb would make sense I guess. Planes do not spontaneously break down in mid-air. But it doesn't really explain why the pilot asked to be diverted to Cairo first.I think there was no any request from pilot. Can't remember any credible source claiming that,
That was reportedly coming from sources inside local air traffic control, in news articles published the day of the incident. It was refuted / disappeared from the headlines a day later.
Yeah, wasn't the Egyptian turist industry hit pretty hard by a series of terror attacks not too many years ago?
Yeah, wasn't the Egyptian turist industry hit pretty hard by a series of terror attacks not too many years ago?I think the Arab spring had a bit more of an effect, there were places you weren't legally allowed to set foot
If soviet medicine could keep brezhnev and Yeltsin alive in their shitty health state.There are a conspiracy theory in Russia that Putin was killed by FSB in early 2000s and replaced by a double. :D
Then Putin with all that do sports be man stuff combined with achievments of modern medicine can gain some sort of immortality.
To me it seems more like the wheels of bureaucracy slowly turning, and the news getting attention only because of the recent crash.To me it seems that it is lobbying of Aeroflot that uses no 737s trying to hurt smaller companies that do use them.
Apparently Russia is butthurt about the latest Charlie Hebdo caricatures (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/kremlin-charlie-hebdos-russian-plane-crash-cartoons-blasphemous/543554.html). I must admit I laughed out loud.I really hope there were no Chechens or Ossetins on that plane. Otherwise CH staff should really invest into personal security.Spoiler: Warning:Joke (click to show/hide)
Apparently Russia is butthurt about the latest Charlie Hebdo caricatures (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/kremlin-charlie-hebdos-russian-plane-crash-cartoons-blasphemous/543554.html). I must admit I laughed out loud.Spoiler: Warning:Joke (click to show/hide)
Not sure whats funny about it, as innocent people died, and they are mocking them, just show how crappy Charlie Hebdo are.Top lel and do you say this when someone makes a 9/11 joke?
Not sure whats funny about it, as innocent people died, and they are mocking them, just show how crappy Charlie Hebdo are.Top lel and do you say this when someone makes a 9/11 joke?
It's kind of hard to shit on someone who has been bombed by legit fanatic terrorists for their job. I mean you can, but you risk getting shat on yourself.Not sure whats funny about it, as innocent people died, and they are mocking them, just show how crappy Charlie Hebdo are.Top lel and do you say this when someone makes a 9/11 joke?
They did the same crap for 9/11? Man, they should get shit on for doing crap like this.
It's kind of hard to shit on someone who has been bombed by legit fanatic terrorists for their job. I mean you can, but you risk getting shat on yourself.Not sure whats funny about it, as innocent people died, and they are mocking them, just show how crappy Charlie Hebdo are.Top lel and do you say this when someone makes a 9/11 joke?
They did the same crap for 9/11? Man, they should get shit on for doing crap like this.
They did the same crap for 9/11? Man, they should get shit on (in non aggressive way) for doing crap like this. Worst kind of filth.No they didn't but bay1
Not sure whats funny about it, as innocent people died, and they are mocking them, just show how crappy Charlie Hebdo are.Top lel and do you say this when someone makes a 9/11 joke?
They did the same crap for 9/11? Man, they should get shit on (in non aggressive way) for doing crap like this. Worst kind of filth.
The Charlie Hebdo isn't really any worse than American humor about 9/11 that was fairly common right after the attacks (http://lasvegassun.com/blogs/kats-report/2011/feb/23/retrospect-gilbert-gottfrieds-911-joke-was-maybe-t/). But there's a political message in the Charlie Hebdo version, that's entirely absent from the American 9/11 humor i just linked. Charlie Hebdo's cartoon draws attention to the fact that Russia is bombing people rather than drawing attention to the air crash. The message is that you don't get a free pass on the bombings because one bad thing happens to you.I don't like this narrative, too easy for Russians to point at us and say "you too"
Not sure whats funny about it, as innocent people died, and they are mocking them, just show how crappy Charlie Hebdo are.Top lel and do you say this when someone makes a 9/11 joke?
They did the same crap for 9/11? Man, they should get shit on (in non aggressive way) for doing crap like this. Worst kind of filth.
He was talking about 9/11 jokes in general, nothing to do with Charlie Hebdo. For example, The Onion filled their entire newspaper with 9/11-related jokes on September 26th, 2001 (http://www.theonion.com/issue/3734/), which was basically their first issue they wrote after the attacks. The first headline is about how Bush Senior apologized to Bush Junior for funding Osama Bin Laden in the first place. That's pretty much up there with the Charlie Hebdo / Russian bombing cartoon in terms of bluntness and offensiveness to the victims.
The Charlie Hebdo isn't really any worse than American humor about 9/11 that was fairly common right after the attacks (http://lasvegassun.com/blogs/kats-report/2011/feb/23/retrospect-gilbert-gottfrieds-911-joke-was-maybe-t/). But there's a political message in the Charlie Hebdo version, that's entirely absent from the American 9/11 humor i just linked. Charlie Hebdo's cartoon draws attention to the fact that Russia is bombing people rather than drawing attention to the air crash. The message is that you don't get a free pass on the bombings because one bad thing happens to you.
You can have a political message in everything, you can draw a shit on a plate, and it will have a message , or how the joke "Bush Senior apologized to Bush Junior for funding Osama Bin Laden " is a political message that you don't get a free pass if you support terrorism.No clickbait is buzzfeed saying "YOU WON'T BELIEVE THIS" whilst this is called making a joke
No this is a pure click bate, bullshit to get more attention and buzz, and that's why i hate when people get so low for getting some benefit/exposure.
I'm fairly certain the coalition bombing falls under the responsibility to protect clause of international law, given that they've only targeted ISIS which doesn't shy from genocide.FTFY. It's an important difference.
I'm fairly certain the coalition bombing falls under the right to protect clause of international law, given that they've only targeted ISIS which doesn't shy from genocide.
I don't entirely know how they're treatedRather well, actually. While the Druze are very insistent on being Syrian due to religious reasons, they and the Israelis get on just fine. In fact the one known trigger for Israeli involvement in the Syrian civil war is Druze-related: If someone starts fucking over the Syrian Druze population, they'll get the Six Day treatment.
I don't entirely know how they're treatedRather well, actually. While the Druze are very insistent on being Syrian due to religious reasons, they and the Israelis get on just fine. In fact the one known trigger for Israeli involvement in the Syrian civil war is Druze-related: If someone starts fucking over the Syrian Druze population, they'll get the Six Day treatment.
I don't entirely know how they're treatedRather well, actually. While the Druze are very insistent on being Syrian due to religious reasons, they and the Israelis get on just fine. In fact the one known trigger for Israeli involvement in the Syrian civil war is Druze-related: If someone starts fucking over the Syrian Druze population, they'll get the Six Day treatment.
To continue on this vein of thought, major oil reserves have been found in the golan heights. (http://www.timesofisrael.com/major-oil-reserve-said-found-on-golan/) The volume of oil is potentially in the billions of barrels worth, more than enough to supply Israel's energy needs for the forseeable future. Most interesting; it remains to be seen whether this oil will be economically viable now or in the future.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
How do you two feel about Israel colonizing the Golan Heights, anyway?Cheecki breecki
okay so maybe colonize is a less-than-neutral termYeah. I believe the usual terminus is 'loaded question'.
No this is a pure click bate
They've been peddling the "it was technical difficulties" version pretty hard since the first day. Changing the version at this point would make them look silly, and there are plenty of reasons to imagine why it would be bad for them, both internally and externally.
No this is a pure click bate
How is something that's not even on their website "click bait?" A click bait is a headline (or possibly image) used to direct hits to a site. But Charlie Hebdo did not publish the cartoon online, nor do they sell advertising on the site. And we don't see a copy of this cartoon used in any sort of promotional aspect relating to Charlie Hebdo. Charlie Hebdo don't seem to have drawn any particular attention to the specific comic. So there's no evidence that they used this specific cartoon in any sort of marketing context.
To see the image you must have already bought the print comic. It was inside a magazine sold in France, so some Russian person had to go to France, actually buy the comic, get outraged that there was a cartoon about Russia, then take a photo of the cartoon and upload it so that we could see it. Which is a pretty convoluted way to drum up publicity.
It's like saying "on page 73 of your new book, there was a statement I found offensive so I wrote a blog saying how offended I was about it", and then claiming the author of the book was responsible for the clickbait. No, clearly the offended blogger is the one generating clicks.
What? No, they are a newspaper that specialize in making fun of everything. They've been doing that for 30 years. I'm not even sorry if you're offended, because it just mean they did their job right.
What? No, they are a newspaper that specialize in making fun of everything. They've been doing that for 30 years. I'm not even sorry if you're offended, because it just mean they did their job right.
Come on boki, if you really support freedom then you will defend any work under threat of censorship, both its high quality and importance. It is not enough to pay lip service to their rights - speaking ill of them is basically social censorship.I do not support freedom to insult victims and get paid for it. That type of scums need to go.
If you really want them to go, you need to go after people who buy it. Really, they wouldn't have existed if there wasn't some demand for it in the society. Where do you think they get money to continue their operations?Come on boki, if you really support freedom then you will defend any work under threat of censorship, both its high quality and importance. It is not enough to pay lip service to their rights - speaking ill of them is basically social censorship.I do not support freedom to insult victims and get paid for it. That type of scums need to go.
I do not support freedom to insult victims and get paid for it. That type of scums need to go.In your society everyone becomes a victim
That's what, 3 years for vandalism? You can arguably put a case for 10-15, depending on if you interpret this as a "traitorous action".
I think this guy might just be crazy. His message might be valid, but the man himself is without a doubt completely insane. He sewed his mouth shut once, cut off his earlobe, and wrapped himself, naked, in barbed wire and had his buddies set him down in the street. Among other things.The message isn't really valid, too. He was supposedly protesting against the "oppressing hand of FSB"... but it's kind of self-defeating to claim that the government' spooks try to control everything while standing right next to a burning door to the Spook Central. FSB's apparently so oppressive it doesn't even guard its own front door :-X
I think this guy might just be crazy. His message might be valid, but the man himself is without a doubt completely insane. He sewed his mouth shut once, cut off his earlobe, and wrapped himself, naked, in barbed wire and had his buddies set him down in the street. Among other things.The message isn't really valid, too. He was supposedly protesting against the "oppressing hand of FSB"... but it's kind of self-defeating to claim that the government' spooks try to control everything while standing right next to a burning door to the Spook Central. FSB's apparently so oppressive it doesn't even guard its own front door :-X
http://ruslanleviev.livejournal.com/44827.html (http://interesting blog post about Russian forces in Syria)
http://ruslanleviev.livejournal.com/44827.html (http://interesting blog post about Russian forces in Syria)
You switched around the text and the actual URL.
Anyways, if a random guy in Russia can datamine that much from the pictures, imagine how much the CIA is datamining from those, heh.
http://ruslanleviev.livejournal.com/44827.html (http://interesting blog post about Russian forces in Syria)
You switched around the text and the actual URL.
Anyways, if a random guy in Russia can datamine that much from the pictures, imagine how much the CIA is datamining from those, heh.
Heh, the more funny thing is the people that work on that site (or better said source of that information, not livejournal.com), are actually from USA , and started this project from funds from London-based Herzen Foundation and a grant from the New York -based Institute of Modern Russia that is founded from run away russian oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovsky (around 15th wealthiest person on the world back few years ago).
Its a well known anti russian site that main focus is again everything around russia when it comes to politics, but taking in acount who is making the site, everything should be taken in with a reason of doubt when it comes to their sources.
But not saying the thing on the posts are not true, i think they actually are, but this is not done by a random guy
Not much more, I'd wager. Their professionalism doesn't really turn them into magicians, you know. They just have more sources to base their intelligence on.http://ruslanleviev.livejournal.com/44827.html (http://interesting blog post about Russian forces in Syria)
You switched around the text and the actual URL.
Anyways, if a random guy in Russia can datamine that much from the pictures, imagine how much the CIA is datamining from those, heh.
Heh, the more funny thing is the people that work on that site (or better said source of that information, not livejournal.com), are actually from USA , and started this project from funds from London-based Herzen Foundation and a grant from the New York -based Institute of Modern Russia that is founded from run away russian oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovsky (around 15th wealthiest person on the world back few years ago).
Its a well known anti russian site that main focus is again everything around russia when it comes to politics, but taking in acount who is making the site, everything should be taken in with a reason of doubt when it comes to their sources.
But not saying the thing on the posts are not true, i think they actually are, but this is not done by a random guy
I was being rhetorical, if a civillian can get that much out of those pictures, think how much the professional Intel services guys can get out of it.
It's kinda like Alex Jones, he claims the NWO is out to get everyone, did 9/11 etc, and are out to get him. Yet he's done a radio show for 20 years without anything untoward happening to him. If they really were out to get him, they woulda knocked Alex Jones off before 9/11 happened.BY THE POWER OF WATER FILTERS, I AM BREAKING THE CONDITIONING YARHRHHHH
Appear strong when you are weak, and strong when you liftIt may or may not be real or not real. Either way it's gotta be pretty effective at getting military budgets up.
Always stronk
In all seriousness though is this even real? Never forget that the cheapest minefield is a lie.
Saharov? Wasn't that the guy who came up with Saharov's Third Idea, ie the Soviet hydrogen bomb?Yes.
The US senate voted against taking in more Syrian refugees.
The US is henceforth known in the world as "that nation that you should not make agreements with, because they'll just break them"
It's just plain dumb. If those senators had taken the time to do their jobs, and inform themselves about it, European intelligence agencies could hve told them that the Paris attacks were mostly if not completely carried out by people who were born and raised in Europe (except for the Syrian passport that was found, which might just as well be a stolen passport from an innocent refugee).
So if those senators are so afraid for terrorist attacks, as to take back a promise made to the international community about taking in 100k refugees, they should be consistent, and also vote to remove all muslims from the US.
The US senate voted against taking in more Syrian refugees.
The US is henceforth known in the world as "that nation that you should not make agreements with, because they'll just break them"
It's just plain dumb. If those senators had taken the time to do their jobs, and inform themselves about it, European intelligence agencies could hve told them that the Paris attacks were mostly if not completely carried out by people who were born and raised in Europe (except for the Syrian passport that was found, which might just as well be a stolen passport from an innocent refugee).
So if those senators are so afraid for terrorist attacks, as to take back a promise made to the international community about taking in 100k refugees, they should be consistent, and also vote to remove all muslims from the US.
The US senate voted against taking in more Syrian refugees.European networks would have also told you many more already made it through xD
The US is henceforth known in the world as "that nation that you should not make agreements with, because they'll just break them"
It's just plain dumb. If those senators had taken the time to do their jobs, and inform themselves about it, European intelligence agencies could hve told them that the Paris attacks were mostly if not completely carried out by people who were born and raised in Europe (except for the Syrian passport that was found, which might just as well be a stolen passport from an innocent refugee).
So if those senators are so afraid for terrorist attacks, as to take back a promise made to the international community about taking in 100k refugees, they should be consistent, and also vote to remove all muslims from the US.
European networks would have also told you many more already made it through xDLW confirmed feelgood USFG shill, welcome to America capitalist brother.
USA is already #1 in foreign aid to the refugees, there is literally no reason America needs to jeopardize its home security for good feelings when it already helps millions more than a measly hundred thousand without having to vet through hundreds of thousands of people for a few hundred jihadists or assad loyalists
Breaking news: Archaeologists have discovered the bones of the Tyrannosaurus Rektits paleontologists you pleb! :P
LW confirmed feelgood USFG shill, welcome to America capitalist brother.And then I ate a hamburger and it tasted of freedom
That was a funny story. Especially the part where, yesterday, UA government soldiers (the national guard, I think?) have tried to forcefully move them (the rebellious Crimean Tatar faction + some Right Sector people) away from the almost-blown-up supports (right side of the picture) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUWLUaLXAAA6gf1.jpg:large) to clear up the way for repair teams.I don't know, think of all the Crimean slavs who couldn't shitpost on the internet
Something about seeing your enemy fight your other enemy for the right to deliver you electricity makes it much funnier than it should've been.
In Jerusalem today, 2 teenage girls, around 12 years old according to witnesses, stabbed a Palestinian man in the back and in the head with scissors. They are assumed to have mistaken him for a jew.
The girls were ordered by the Israeli police that had arrived at the scene, to drop their scissors, and shot when they refused and instead charged at the police. One of the girls died to police fire, the other was injured.
Yo ho ho, and a half litre of rum! (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/russian-sailor-drank-half-litre-of-rum-before-running-aground-at-full-speed-leaking-25-tonnes-of-a6744161.html)
In Jerusalem today, 2 teenage girls, around 12 years old according to witnesses, stabbed a Palestinian man in the back and in the head with scissors. They are assumed to have mistaken him for a jew.Team killing noobs
The girls were ordered by the Israeli police that had arrived at the scene, to drop their scissors, and shot when they refused and instead charged at the police. One of the girls died to police fire, the other was injured.
That can't have been a Russian captain. If it was, he'd have drunk a full litre of vodka, not rum. And parked the ship safely in port at that.
...I so wish that was tongue-in-cheek.In Jerusalem today, 2 teenage girls, around 12 years old according to witnesses, stabbed a Palestinian man in the back and in the head with scissors. They are assumed to have mistaken him for a jew.
The girls were ordered by the Israeli police that had arrived at the scene, to drop their scissors, and shot when they refused and instead charged at the police. One of the girls died to police fire, the other was injured.Team killing noobsHeroes and martyrs to the cause.
In Jerusalem today, 2 teenage girls, around 12 years old according to witnesses, stabbed a Palestinian man in the back and in the head with scissors. They are assumed to have mistaken him for a jew.
The girls were ordered by the Israeli police that had arrived at the scene, to drop their scissors, and shot when they refused and instead charged at the police. One of the girls died to police fire, the other was injured.
In Jerusalem today, 2 teenage girls, around 12 years old according to witnesses, stabbed a Palestinian man in the back and in the head with scissors. They are assumed to have mistaken him for a jew.
The girls were ordered by the Israeli police that had arrived at the scene, to drop their scissors, and shot when they refused and instead charged at the police. One of the girls died to police fire, the other was injured.
Source?
In Jerusalem today, 2 teenage girls, around 12 years old according to witnesses, stabbed a Palestinian man in the back and in the head with scissors. They are assumed to have mistaken him for a jew.
The girls were ordered by the Israeli police that had arrived at the scene, to drop their scissors, and shot when they refused and instead charged at the police. One of the girls died to police fire, the other was injured.
Source?
They shot two twelve year old girls because one of them was armed with scissors? I mean, I recognize that they just killed a guy, but I feel like twelve year old girls wouldn't be all that hard to restrain.
In Jerusalem today, 2 teenage girls, around 12 years old according to witnesses, stabbed a Palestinian man in the back and in the head with scissors. They are assumed to have mistaken him for a jew.
The girls were ordered by the Israeli police that had arrived at the scene, to drop their scissors, and shot when they refused and instead charged at the police. One of the girls died to police fire, the other was injured.
Source?
They shot two twelve year old girls because one of them was armed with scissors? I mean, I recognize that they just killed a guy, but I feel like twelve year old girls wouldn't be all that hard to restrain.
They shot two twelve year old girls because one of them was armed with scissors? I mean, I recognize that they just killed a guy, but I feel like twelve year old girls wouldn't be all that hard to restrain.Anyone running with scissors is a weapon of mass ear dismemberment
Source?
But the Kurds are also fighting against Assad.
I'm surprised Russia doesn't claim it was a technical incident.
Russian news site Pravda is now suggesting that the US might be behind it.It was a Ukrainian Su-25 that disguised itself as F-16, flew over the Black Sea and Turkey and shot down the Russian aircraft!
Are they? My understanding was that they stopped fighting mostly because ISIS got in the way.
Miljan, where does that picture comes from?
No. They give them a friendly escort to international airspace, create some minor diplomatical fuss and go on about their daily business.And show how weak you are.
And show how weak you are.
But yeah, WTF Turkey. Their minister of foreign affairs now defended the action in the media, and said Turkey was in it's right to shoot down the plane, just because of the territorial violation.
Idiots. You think the Netherlands, UK, Germany, Denmark or others even consider shooting down the frequent Russian fighters and bombers without active transponders violating NATO airspace? No. They give them a friendly escort to international airspace, create some minor diplomatical fuss and go on about their daily business.
... They waited until it was landed to blow it up? Well, I guess that makes it considerably easier.
Its still not 100% confirmation as this can be edited old video from fighting in syria as they also have a lot of this choppers.Possible. Only news site I can find reporting it so ar is the Mirror and I'm not so sure about it's value. My own Dutch newspaper does not mention it yet.
Killing people doesn't make you appear strong. Showing you can defend your airspace, COULD kill them, but choose not to if they comply makes you appear strong. Just outright killing them makes you look like a dick.QuoteNo. They give them a friendly escort to international airspace, create some minor diplomatical fuss and go on about their daily business.And show how weak you are.
Yeah, but what if they don't comply?Killing people doesn't make you appear strong. Showing you can defend your airspace, COULD kill them, but choose not to if they comply makes you appear strong. Just outright killing them makes you look like a dick.QuoteNo. They give them a friendly escort to international airspace, create some minor diplomatical fuss and go on about their daily business.And show how weak you are.
Killing people doesn't make you appear strong. Showing you can defend your airspace, COULD kill them, but choose not to if they comply makes you appear strong. Just outright killing them makes you look like a dick.Will Russian jets keep violating Turkish Airspace and bomb Turkish allies? I guess not. It is what matters here.
I'm not talking specifically about this incident, though personally if the Turks are correct I'd say they gave adequate warning and were in their right to escalate. Though honestly, I'm not sure I'd believe either the Turks or the Ruskies, they're both kind of... untrustworthy.Yeah, but what if they don't comply?Killing people doesn't make you appear strong. Showing you can defend your airspace, COULD kill them, but choose not to if they comply makes you appear strong. Just outright killing them makes you look like a dick.QuoteNo. They give them a friendly escort to international airspace, create some minor diplomatical fuss and go on about their daily business.And show how weak you are.
I'm not saying I agree with the choice that was made here, as the airspace violation appears to be minimal, the pilot basically taking a shortcut across a piece of Turkey that sticks out across his flight path. But according to the Turks, they issued 10 warnings in the span of five minutes and got no response.
Killing people doesn't make you appear strong. Showing you can defend your airspace, COULD kill them, but choose not to if they comply makes you appear strong. Just outright killing them makes you look like a dick.
Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the fear to attack.
Al Nusra(FSA buddies? Anti-ISIS? Anti-West)
Kurds(Rebels? But friendly with regime? and the West? More interested in self preservation...)There are Kurds in Iraq, Syria, and Turkey. They'd like to have their own state - Kurdistan - rather than just being a minority in other states. Turkey isn't likely to oblige them but there's nothing to stop them from doing that in Iraq or Syria now. They're more focused on fighting Daesh at the moment, though.
Iran/Iraq(Married to the hip with regime, well they definitely got boots on the ground.)
(Although there have been reports of more chemical weapons being used)Yeah, there have. He was 'able to convince Assad' to do the bare minimum amount necessary to give Obama the option of leaving him be without losing face. It's a prime example of lack of political will to change things for the better, really.
We don't deploy nuclear weapons to prove we can deploy nuclear weapons.QuoteNo. They give them a friendly escort to international airspace, create some minor diplomatical fuss and go on about their daily business.And show how weak you are.
Not really, it's a cat and mouse game that has been ongoing since cold war, with maybe a short pause in the period from Gorbatsjov till Putin.Royal Air Force pilots and Soviet Air Force pilots used to have fun showing each other pictures of their families and the like up in the air. Officers on both sides got quite angry that their pilots were having aeronautical bants
Russian fighter / bomber: "Look! Here I am! I'm flying in your airspace!"
NATO fighter escort "Look! Here we are too! Pretty nice response time eh? How's the wife?"
(Although there have been reports of more chemical weapons being used)Yeah, there have. He was 'able to convince Assad' to do the bare minimum amount necessary to give Obama the option of leaving him be without losing face. It's a prime example of lack of political will to change things for the better, really.
Back in 2012 the opposition was relatively unified and secular. And guess what happened when we sat by and did shit while the ophtomologist massacred civilians, while we ignored his bombing campaigns, his torture camps, his brutal war against the Syrian people? I can't blame any Syrian fighter for becoming an Islamist when the only part of the opposition that was getting meaningful outside help was the Islamist faction.
We broke it long ago. Do you really believe things could be worse than they are now if we had just lifted the end of our collective pinky finger instead of sitting by, occasionally going 'That's bad, mkay? Don't do that, mkay?'
(Although there have been reports of more chemical weapons being used)Yeah, there have. He was 'able to convince Assad' to do the bare minimum amount necessary to give Obama the option of leaving him be without losing face. It's a prime example of lack of political will to change things for the better, really.
If you think we should have gone in and bombed the fuck out of Assad, or removed him, what happens then? Remember Iraq? You break it, you buy it.
Back in 2012 the opposition was relatively unified and secular. And guess what happened when we sat by and did shit while the ophtomologist massacred civilians, while we ignored his bombing campaigns, his torture camps, his brutal war against the Syrian people? I can't blame any Syrian fighter for becoming an Islamist when the only part of the opposition that was getting meaningful outside help was the Islamist faction.If only things you said where true
We broke it long ago. Do you really believe things could be worse than they are now if we had just lifted the end of our collective pinky finger instead of sitting by, occasionally going 'That's bad, mkay? Don't do that, mkay?'
Turks(Probably almost exclusively Anti-Kurd)In fairness, Turkey was and is the biggest proponent of bombing Assad into the stone age. If the US dropped a nuclear bomb on Damascus tomorrow, I'm sure Turkey would be the nation going "guys, if you think about it, was it *really* a bad thing?". But NATO hasn't let them bomb Assad, so they will bomb the other people they don't like (the Kurds).
Back in 2012 the opposition was relatively unified and secular. And guess what happened when we sat by and did shit while the ophtomologist massacred civilians, while we ignored his bombing campaigns, his torture camps, his brutal war against the Syrian people? I can't blame any Syrian fighter for becoming an Islamist when the only part of the opposition that was getting meaningful outside help was the Islamist faction.If only things you said where true
We broke it long ago. Do you really believe things could be worse than they are now if we had just lifted the end of our collective pinky finger instead of sitting by, occasionally going 'That's bad, mkay? Don't do that, mkay?'
The opposition was never secular, that is one of the several problems. Not gonna go in detail what is happening in syria as it looks like the only information you have collected is horrible syrian government without any insight in the rebel organisation and fighting during th beginning.
So ruissia stopped all military contacts with turkey, they will be from now on send with every bomber their air fighters, and is also sending the Russian cruiser Moskva closer to syria/turkish border. The cruiser is known to have anti air possibilities similar to s 300 ground systems.
It was one of their fighters that got shot down, not a bomber, but yeah, the knives are out now, metaphorically speaking.
So ruissia stopped all military contacts with turkey, they will be from now on send with every bomber their air fighters, and is also sending the Russian cruiser Moskva closer to syria/turkish border. The cruiser is known to have anti air possibilities similar to s 300 ground systems.Yes. Russia deploys Moskva cruiser off Latakia coast to provide guaranteed destruction of any hostile aircrafts, attacking Russian war planes. Also all bombers are said to be now escorted with fighters for similar purposes.
So ruissia stopped all military contacts with turkey, they will be from now on send with every bomber their air fighters, and is also sending the Russian cruiser Moskva closer to syria/turkish border. The cruiser is known to have anti air possibilities similar to s 300 ground systems.Yes. Russia deploys Moskva cruiser off Latakia coast to provide guaranteed destruction of any hostile aircrafts, attacking Russian war planes. Also all bombers are said to be now escorted with fighters for similar purposes.
https://www.rt.com/news/323329-russia-suspend-military-turkey/ (https://www.rt.com/news/323329-russia-suspend-military-turkey/)
If similar accident happened now, the attacking F-16 would be downed as a measure of symmetrical response. And Russia would even have a formal right to do so, had the Turkish plane violated Syrian airspace, as it happened during the last accident. Yet the fate of the pilots would not be as miserable...
From my point of view, this provocation of Turkey is motivated by the disruption of illegal Turkish oil business by Russian air strikes (a recent video of Russian MOD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQZvNCRpdnQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQZvNCRpdnQ), many similar exist, like the one with "ant-paths" of ISIL oil trucks bombed by Russian forces). Turkey trades oil with ISIL and other groups, that gives money to the terrorists and super-cheap oil to the Turks. This is big business. This oil comes at no cost, as the oil fields and refineries have been expropriated from the legal owners, and are now simply producing without any capital investments.
It's important to note that the help Iran is providing are all shi'ite militias, much of the Iraqi military is as well, and the great difficulty they've been having is retaking sunni areas without alienating the population, which is difficult when your troops exact retribution for Daesh's crimes on the citizens who merely lived under their rule and managed not to get killed (by being sunni or christian and following their strict 'moral' laws, etc).
smjjames: You are proposing to kick a nation out of NATO because people are buying and selling fuel oil in that country on the black/grey market?
The US and France have been bombing those trucks, but I haven't heard of Russia doing it. Doesn't mean that they aren't, of course.
"The Sukhoi Su-24 is a supersonic, all-weather attack aircraft/interdictor developed in the Soviet Union" - Wikipedia.
And the russians are pissed. I'm really not entirely sympathetic. The Cold War should already have shown that in a chaotic situation, planes have a tendency to get shot down over borders they aren't supposed to be over.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-to-air_combat_losses_between_the_USSR_and_US)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007)[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_902) (Note that in on my second citation, a US congressman was killed.) Plus, I mean, after the incident with Malaysia airlines, well, one would figure.
As it stands, what Turkey is doing with ISIS is irrelevant to the fact of Turkey shooting down Russian jets. Turkey has plenty of other reasons to dislike Russia's actions in Syria, not the least of which because they are on different sides of Assad, and Turkey recently asking Russia to stop bombing Turkmans. What is actually interesting is how this will change the diplomatic situation. What do you think will happen next? I wonder how Russia and NATO will react.
Eh? Wikipedia, of course. Here, I took a screenshot.
Looks like someone changed it after I quoted it.
Edit: ... wikipedia claims that was 2 hours ago, but that's impossible - it's only been 20 minutes since I copied the text right off the page.
I can bet that Russia will pretend that nothing happenedIt appears that you've, in fact, lost your bet.
God dammit, that was probably the worst timing on my internet to go out for a whole day D:
Anyway, I think like 90% of the current anti-Turkey's build-up is not just because they shot down an aircraft (although that's already quite serious), it's that they almost immediately killed the pilots through their proxy "tribesmen" forces and touted it as "legitimate defence". That's the kind of deranged un-diplomatic behaviour that must be counter-acted.
Turks(Probably almost exclusively Anti-Kurd)
Kurds(Rebels? But friendly with regime? and the West? More interested in self preservation...)
God dammit, that was probably the worst timing on my internet to go out for a whole day D:
Anyway, I think like 90% of the current anti-Turkey's build-up is not just because they shot down an aircraft (although that's already quite serious), it's that they almost immediately killed the pilots through their proxy "tribesmen" forces and touted it as "legitimate defence". That's the kind of deranged un-diplomatic behaviour that must be counter-acted.
There was an emergency meeting of NATO in early October due (like this one) to incursions in Hatay province on October 3-4. At the time, Russia claimed they would take measures to avoid it happening again. Turkey, at the time, warned that they would respond if provoked again. Either Russia in general or the pilot in particular apparently decided this would mean another sternly-worded letter. Unfortunately for Russia, Turkey isn't most countries, and unlike the end result of last year's brinksmanship in Finland and Estonia, Turkey responded with firmer measures.That is interesting. It makes sense that Russia would want to show that they were on the right side of the border, since that rather radically changes the story.
That said, Russia is now claiming that their plane never got within a kilometer of the Turkish-Syrian border. Hold on a tick....here is apparently the official Russian map. This obviously rather blatantly contradicts the Turkish-released data posted a couple pages back.
(http://i.imgur.com/AwNKwgB.png)
EDIT: Added a bit on the Turkey-Greece dispute in an aside with the abbr tag, since it's interesting but not directly relevant. Basically, though, if the two weren't allies in NATO, I wouldn't be surprised if we were talking about a brief Aegean Conflict in the 80s or very early 90s to go with the invasion of Cyprus in the 70s; that's how bad the situation felt there.The kebab/feta dispute is millenia old.
Everyone violates everyone else's airspace. (http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/24/turkey-violated-greek-airspace-2244-times-last-year-fires-at-russia-for-doing-it-once/) It's just what you do when you have an airforce.It's about legality, really.
EDIT: Added a bit on the Turkey-Greece dispute in an aside with the abbr tag, since it's interesting but not directly relevant. Basically, though, if the two weren't allies in NATO, I wouldn't be surprised if we were talking about a brief Aegean Conflict in the 80s or very early 90s to go with the invasion of Cyprus in the 70s; that's how bad the situation felt there.The kebab/feta dispute is millenia old.
So is the Anglo-French one. Time alone isn't a good enough reason. This one's pride and economics coming together in a mix of perverse incentives.
kebab-feta dispute is not only older then the anglo-french one, it's older then england and france! On a more serious note, there is a lot more anger between the nations, quite a lot of difference culturally, and at least one genocide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_genocide). Time isn't the reason for the conflict. Time is reason for a lack of it. Time, for sure, is why the Anglo-french relationship has gotten better. The Greco-Turkish dispute would fade, but it keeps getting renewed in blood.So is the Anglo-French one. Time alone isn't a good enough reason. This one's pride and economics coming together in a mix of perverse incentives.EDIT: Added a bit on the Turkey-Greece dispute in an aside with the abbr tag, since it's interesting but not directly relevant. Basically, though, if the two weren't allies in NATO, I wouldn't be surprised if we were talking about a brief Aegean Conflict in the 80s or very early 90s to go with the invasion of Cyprus in the 70s; that's how bad the situation felt there.The kebab/feta dispute is millenia old.
Yeah, I've now seen two digital flight maps from both countries that are basically calling the other a liar. And how is anyone supposed to affirm whether anyone's radar data was altered?
Personally, with all the Russian flybys in the last couple of years I'm more willing to believe a Russian plane was in Turkish airspace than not.
Yeah, I've now seen two digital flight maps from both countries that are basically calling the other a liar. And how is anyone supposed to affirm whether anyone's radar data was altered?
Personally, with all the Russian flybys in the last couple of years I'm more willing to believe a Russian plane was in Turkish airspace than not.
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see if Russia keeps buzzing people after this
in b4 Turkey annexes the Crimea to protect the Turkish speaking minority there from freezing to death due to no electricity.I'm surprised nobody has 'suggested' that they got shot down from Zaroshchenskoe.
After shooting down a Russian plane, Turkey is going to be in hot water just in time for Thanksgiving.
I dunno, if a Russian plane flew into American airspace and ignored 10 communications to turn back, I'm pretty sure we'd light him up too. So far they haven't actually crossed into American airspace that I can remember, just coming exceptionally close on excursions.
So no, Washington does not "back Turkey's version of events" like Misko27 wrote, since Turkey claims the plane was shot over Turkish territory.
Erdogan himself stated today that "the plane was shot down while over Turkey's airspace, and went down in Syria. Some pieces of the plane crashed into Turkey, wounding two civilians"So no, Washington does not "back Turkey's version of events" like Misko27 wrote, since Turkey claims the plane was shot over Turkish territory.
Did it? IIRC, the Turkish phrasing was something like "after that plane violated our airspace, our F-16 engaged and shot it down", without mentioning where exactly it was shot down. Given the even according to the Turks, the plane only spent seconds over Turkish air space, it's unlikely they shot it over their own territory.
Also, UR:I can bet that Russia will pretend that nothing happenedIt appears that you've, in fact, lost your bet.
So I'm interested: what reaction would you expect from a "world power" for an incident like that? Doing nothing and pretending it didn't happen?Also, UR:I can bet that Russia will pretend that nothing happenedIt appears that you've, in fact, lost your bet.
I was talking more about about bombing something in Turkey because Russia is plain scared of Turkish military might even without NATO allies.
But yep I expected Putin to disappear from TV for a week or so, I was wrong, Russia reacted like a hysterical woman once again. Banning tourism, starting anti-Turkish propaganda campaign "finding something"in Turkish chickens and banning its import and so on. I find it is the right kind reaction for a world power :D
Aggressive and totalitarian world power: bomb the shit out of the one who dared to do that.That's insane. World powers don't become world powers by suiciding themselves. USA and USSR were world powers, and they didn't go to a shooting war with each other ever during the most tense moments of Cold War like Cuban Crisis.
Other kinds of world power.: Diplomatic moves and international courts not "lets find some decease in Turkish poultry and ban its imports and suggest our tourism operators to have no business with Turkey"That just doesn't work. At all. International courts and UN resolutions can be ignored at will by anyone who is willing to do so; for instance, Israel does that. And a country which is willing to shoot at the other country's military would be certainly willing to ignore any international resolutions coming from it's opponent.
Cut him some slack, he's got a modern and reasonable world superpower starting shooting wars and taking chunks out of his eastern border.
So your two proposed "solutions" are either suicidal or don't actually do anything meaningful. Thank you for answering, though. It certainly made it clear how a modern Ukrainian nationalist thinks like!
Cut him some slack, he's got a modern and reasonable world superpower starting shooting wars and taking chunks out of his eastern border.
So your two proposed "solutions" are either suicidal or don't actually do anything meaningful. Thank you for answering, though. It certainly made it clear how a modern Ukrainian nationalist thinks like!
Russia is neither especially modern nor a superpower.Cut him some slack, he's got a modern and reasonable world superpower starting shooting wars and taking chunks out of his eastern border.
So your two proposed "solutions" are either suicidal or don't actually do anything meaningful. Thank you for answering, though. It certainly made it clear how a modern Ukrainian nationalist thinks like!
with second strongest military in the worldby numbers only
Quotewith second strongest military in the worldby numbers only
There is unfortunately only one supper power and that is USAWe are indeed the world-acclaimed masters of eating everything in sight. And we're about to have the Super Bowl of Eating tomorrow.
I'd put Russia far underneath second strongest military. Maybe fourth. I mean, they got a modern plane, in a war zone, taken down by a f16. Nothing against the Turks, but I'd bet my car that their Viper fleet isn't up to newest block standard.
I'd put Russia far underneath second strongest military. Maybe fourth. I mean, they got a modern plane, in a war zone, taken down by a f16. Nothing against the Turks, but I'd bet my car that their Viper fleet isn't up to newest block standard.
Also, Putin is sending SAM batteries to Assad as a "fuck you" to Turkey. Let's see if we can blow on that smoldering tinder, shall we? If Syrian forces shoot down a Turkish jet with Russian-supplied SAMs, where does that put us? Especially as Turkey is a NATO member?It only puts us at the "extra-firmly-worded letter" stage, in my opinion. Turkey lost a jet to Syrian ground fire in 2012; the loss of a jet to a modern Russia-built SAM instead of an older Soviet-built missile or AA gun is not that large of an escalation, all things considered. Now, if Russian jets or a missile from the ship redeployed to cover their bombing runs hits a Turkish fighter in Turkish airspace, that would be more of an escalation, but one that would still likely be contained.
Also, Putin is sending SAM batteries to Assad as a "fuck you" to Turkey. Let's see if we can blow on that smoldering tinder, shall we? If Syrian forces shoot down a Turkish jet with Russian-supplied SAMs, where does that put us? Especially as Turkey is a NATO member?
I'd put Russia far underneath second strongest military. Maybe fourth. I mean, they got a modern plane, in a war zone, taken down by a f16. Nothing against the Turks, but I'd bet my car that their Viper fleet isn't up to newest block standard.
I guess you dont know alot about military when you make comments like this. The air planes/bombers flying in syria dont have any type of air defence against other fighters (at least this type of bomber, su 24 as its a old model), because you know you don't expect that. There are no airplane jammers , nothing on them, nor was there any preparation for that type of combat (witch I think is a huge mistake form russia part). They where just hit in back.
I mean if you want to talk about it, we can talk about things like american f 117 getting shot down by a old 70 years old soviet missile, showing that USA has bad military technology and that soviet even from 70 had better one? No, i dont think so that things work like that, and its a good way of thinking.
There is unfortunately only one supper power and that is USAMy country ruled by Dinner Party. Dinner bigger than supper. My country win.
I'd put Russia far underneath second strongest military. Maybe fourth. I mean, they got a modern plane, in a war zone, taken down by a f16. Nothing against the Turks, but I'd bet my car that their Viper fleet isn't up to newest block standard.
I guess you dont know alot about military when you make comments like this. The air planes/bombers flying in syria dont have any type of air defence against other fighters (at least this type of bomber, su 24 as its a old model), because you know you don't expect that. There are no airplane jammers , nothing on them, nor was there any preparation for that type of combat (witch I think is a huge mistake form russia part). They where just hit in back.
I mean if you want to talk about it, we can talk about things like american f 117 getting shot down by a old 70 years old soviet missile, showing that USA has bad military technology and that soviet even from 70 had better one? No, i dont think so that things work like that, and its a good way of thinking.
Phahahaha. That's called excuses, incompetence, and complacency. If you're not expecting to get shot down, then your whole chain of command is fucked up in the head. And yes, that included those idiots who kept flying a 117 down the same flight path over and over again.
If anything, getting shot in the back is worse, because the Ruskies should have been more than smart enough to expect something like that.
Also, Putin is sending SAM batteries to Assad as a "fuck you" to Turkey. Let's see if we can blow on that smoldering tinder, shall we? If Syrian forces shoot down a Turkish jet with Russian-supplied SAMs, where does that put us? Especially as Turkey is a NATO member?
No, Putin is not sending SAM to assad, but to his own forces.
Also what does it matter if syria shot down turkey plane with their missiles? Is that a problem? I guess its also a problem than that a lot of ISIS have USA arms. Or that the russian rescue choper was shot down with USA TOW missile? Is it also a problem that turkey a NATO member is sending ammo and arms to a lot os ISIS and other radical rebels. Does that mean NATO supports turkey in arming ISIS? Ohh wait, no need to call out turkey, we can only look at USA directly with their arming of rebel groups in syria including ISIS (ohh they didnt know that so called free syrian army gives their arms to ISIS and other scum, or in fact majority of them are actually ISIS, al qaeda, ohh, we are so naive and dumb).
In fact you know what, syria can shoot down any air plane in its air space, including USA and NATO air planes, and do you know why? Because they are there illegally (and i am not taking of them being close to border), syria didnt ask for them, nor was there agreement in UN, but you know USA, being USA, fuck laws, we do what we want to do.
Ok, enough of my ranting, but i guess you get a idea.
Normally no one should shoot down anyone's plane, this was just a example
Not sure what so funny, but yes, russie should know better (as they also probably lack experience compared to west), and its their error for trusting turkey, but again it doesn't say a lot about technology and military power that you wanted to make a wrong conclusion from.Russia should have known better, but flying armed bombers near or into NATO airspace has been their air force's only source of amusement ever since the nuclear warheads were put back into the shed.
I'd put Russia far underneath second strongest military. Maybe fourth. I mean, they got a modern plane, in a war zone, taken down by a f16. Nothing against the Turks, but I'd bet my car that their Viper fleet isn't up to newest block standard.
The SU-24-M 'Fencer' is also at least 5 years older than any of the F-16s in Turkey's air forceI'd put Russia far underneath second strongest military. Maybe fourth. I mean, they got a modern plane, in a war zone, taken down by a f16. Nothing against the Turks, but I'd bet my car that their Viper fleet isn't up to newest block standard.
Just you know SU-24 is 10 years older than Viper, and is also a bomber.
Extracted salient points from general grumpiness:
1: Putin is arming russian bases(?) with Surface-Air-Missile batteries (Bases because the russian ground presence in syria consists of one airbase, as far as we know)
2: ISIS has US armaments taken from the Iraqis government forces.
3: A US TOW anti-tank missile was used to blow up the downed pilot's rescue chopper on the ground
4: Turkey is arming ISIS
5: Turkey is arming other radical rebels
6:Something something NATO doesn't support turkey
7: Something something "don't look at the US and blame us"?
8: The FSA is arming ISIS
9: The FSA is ISIS
10: The FSA is Al-qaeda
11: The US is naive and dumb
12: Syria's autocratic, weak, despotic millitary dictatorship has the right to shoot down any of the aircraft from the various sides who are making bombing runs on ISIS (US, Turkey, France, Russia) and the FSA(Russia) because they weren't invited
13: It's the USA's fault that the USA, Russia, France, and Turkey have aircraft on combat missions in Syria.
14: The various countries and groups fighting ISIS should stop shooting down each others' planesNot sure what so funny, but yes, russie should know better (as they also probably lack experience compared to west), and its their error for trusting turkey, but again it doesn't say a lot about technology and military power that you wanted to make a wrong conclusion from.Russia should have known better, but flying armed bombers near or into NATO airspace has been their air force's only source of amusement ever since the nuclear warheads were put back into the shed.
I could extend the pun to the Tea Party, but I'm betting that you're of the breed that that thinks it's "Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner, Supper", not "Breakfast, Dinner, Tea, Supper" (even ignoring Brunch/etc) and, even if not, it'd probably just be confusing. So I won't. Nothing to see here. Move along...There is unfortunately only one supper power and that is USAMy country ruled by Dinner Party. Dinner bigger than supper. My country win.
Russian has numbers and technology
QuoteRussian has numbers and technology
SuuuureSpoiler: Typical navigation system for Russian Airforce (click to show/hide)
Civilian GPS navigator strapped to the dashboard
Meanwhile, looks like someone bombed Turkish convoy with humanitarian aid (uncomfirmed)
Civilian GPS navigator strapped to the dashboard
Meanwhile, looks like someone bombed Turkish convoy with humanitarian aid (uncomfirmed)
Well its more modern than most of the cournites (including most countries in europe) and is considered a regional power (with second strongest military in the world). There is unfortunately only one supper power and that is USA
This is what I think happened:
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/11/turkish-f-16-shoots-down-russian-jet-for-disputed-airspace-violation/
Phahahaha. That's called excuses, incompetence, and complacency. If you're not expecting to get shot down, then your whole chain of command is fucked up in the head. And yes, that included those idiots who kept flying a 117 down the same flight path over and over again.Well we weren't because we were assuming that Turkey was playing by the informal rules of the game, like, you know, literally every other NATO state. However, as it turns out, Turkey values it's regional interests more than keeping adherent to these rules.
If anything, getting shot in the back is worse, because the Ruskies should have been more than smart enough to expect something like that.
Actually, that's a great example of what you're trying to illustrate, but not in the way you brought it up. It's an example of Russia doing something against international law, and daring anyone to do anything about it. It's just that this time Turkey actually decided to call them out on it with military force.
Perhaps the brinkmanship should be more thought out next time.
If you're buzzing people's border and not expecting to be shot at, there's something seriously wrong with your planning. Hell, when I was deployed there were specific steps in the event Iran felt like invading, which is approximately a hundred times less likely than Turkey getting annoyed enough at Russian jets to shoot one down to make a point.
Meanwhile, BBC is reporting that Russian planes and cruise missiles are hitting Syrian Turkoman rebel positions which are not affiliated with ISIS. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p038gnz5)
Putin is never one to miss an opportunity to exploit a tragedy for geopolitical gain. This way he can directly intervene to prop up Assad and claim that he's on the same side as the West.
He's really trying to piss off Erdogan now.
They have crossed borders into national airspace, but recent violations were tied up in the recent events over Ukraine in 2014; 2015's been relatively calm thus far compared to the sudden spike in aerial drama last year. Most seemed to be oblique warnings to Finland and the Baltic states timed to coincide with major NATO training exercises or shortly after outspoken statements on the situation in Ukraine, except possibly the incident involving the AN-72. While I could see those incidents involving jet fighters or surveillance turboprops as being intentional provocations, an empty cargo transport flying through inclement weather would seem like a genuine accident if not for the fact that it's one of no less than five such incidents in half a year, three in a single week.If you're buzzing people's border and not expecting to be shot at, there's something seriously wrong with your planning. Hell, when I was deployed there were specific steps in the event Iran felt like invading, which is approximately a hundred times less likely than Turkey getting annoyed enough at Russian jets to shoot one down to make a point.
I wouldn't be surprised if they got complacent because they do the border stuff with the US and NATO all the time and don't get shot down. Although they don't directly cross our borders, don't know about the incidents in Europe.
If you're buzzing people's border and not expecting to be shot at, there's something seriously wrong with your planning. Hell, when I was deployed there were specific steps in the event Iran felt like invading, which is approximately a hundred times less likely than Turkey getting annoyed enough at Russian jets to shoot one down to make a point.
Meanwhile, BBC is reporting that Russian planes and cruise missiles are hitting Syrian Turkoman rebel positions which are not affiliated with ISIS. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p038gnz5)Propaganda :PPutin is never one to miss an opportunity to exploit a tragedy for geopolitical gain. This way he can directly intervene to prop up Assad and claim that he's on the same side as the West.Russia is legitimately defending an ally, his direct intervention hinders rebels backed by opportunistic nations who are more interested in destabilizing the region rather then focusing on the common enemy.
If you're buzzing people's border and not expecting to be shot at, there's something seriously wrong with your planning. Hell, when I was deployed there were specific steps in the event Iran felt like invading, which is approximately a hundred times less likely than Turkey getting annoyed enough at Russian jets to shoot one down to make a point.
If you've buzzed people's borders a hundred times, and they haven't shot at you, it's not something you're going to expect, nor something you should. You should still, you know, plan for it, just in case, but nonetheless.
Touche. Guess this is payback for those "Afghani freedom fighters" in the 1980's.Meanwhile, BBC is reporting that Russian planes and cruise missiles are hitting Syrian Turkoman rebel positions which are not affiliated with ISIS. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p038gnz5)Propaganda :PPutin is never one to miss an opportunity to exploit a tragedy for geopolitical gain. This way he can directly intervene to prop up Assad and claim that he's on the same side as the West.Russia is legitimately defending an ally, his direct intervention hinders rebels backed by opportunistic nations who are more interested in destabilizing the region rather then focusing on the common enemy.
Well, everyone is trying to get their cake and eat it.
This is all blowback from Enlightenment Empires + dismantling of the Ottoman Empire.Touche. Guess this is payback for those "Afghani freedom fighters" in the 1980's.Meanwhile, BBC is reporting that Russian planes and cruise missiles are hitting Syrian Turkoman rebel positions which are not affiliated with ISIS. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p038gnz5)Propaganda :PPutin is never one to miss an opportunity to exploit a tragedy for geopolitical gain. This way he can directly intervene to prop up Assad and claim that he's on the same side as the West.Russia is legitimately defending an ally, his direct intervention hinders rebels backed by opportunistic nations who are more interested in destabilizing the region rather then focusing on the common enemy.
Well, everyone is trying to get their cake and eat it.
Russian opposition leader Sergei Minorov announced on Twitter that he will propose a new law, which will make denying the Armenian genocide in 1915 by the Turks a punishable offense.
That's going to piss a lot of Turks off, since Turkey still refuses to acknowledge it being genocide.
There's a more general law against "rehabilitation of nazism" existing since 2014 that essentially forbids denying up the results of Nuremberg tribunal, which covers up Holocaust as well as most other pro-nazism speech (google translation warning (https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rg.ru%2F2014%2F05%2F07%2Freabilitacia-dok.html&edit-text=&act=url)).Russian opposition leader Sergei Minorov announced on Twitter that he will propose a new law, which will make denying the Armenian genocide in 1915 by the Turks a punishable offense.
That's going to piss a lot of Turks off, since Turkey still refuses to acknowledge it being genocide.
I wonder, does Russia have similar law on the books for the Holocaust?
If you believe in freedom of speech, you believe in freedom of speech for views you don’t like. Goebbels was in favor of freedom of speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you’re in favor of freedom of speech, that means you’re in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise.
Why wasn't that the case with the Su-24?Because escorting bombers with fighters is more expensive in fuel, maintenance and runaway time.
The S-400 anti-aircraft missile system have arrived at the Hmeimim airbaseTeleported, lol
Trying to construct an unlimited freedom of speech has a tendency to lead to losing said freedom of speech. Hitler was elected because he was popular, and he was popular because of his speeches.
For a more modern example, see Trump and his campaign. He will almost certainly win primary (he's been holding the lead for almost the entire time since he started his campaign), and, if his supporters will intimidate enough people on the side of Democrats into not voting by threats of physical violence (and they're known for regularly beating up people, usually minorities, on pro-Trump rallies), he may very well win the title of President of USA, and turn it into fascist-land.
Trying to construct an unlimited freedom of speech has a tendency to lead to losing said freedom of speech. Hitler was elected because he was popular, and he was popular because of his speeches.
For a more modern example, see Trump and his campaign. He will almost certainly win primary (he's been holding the lead for almost the entire time since he started his campaign), and, if his supporters will intimidate enough people on the side of Democrats into not voting by threats of physical violence (and they're known for regularly beating up people, usually minorities, on pro-Trump rallies), he may very well win the title of President of USA, and turn it into fascist-land.
QuoteThe S-400 anti-aircraft missile system have arrived at the Hmeimim airbaseTeleported, lol
It is obvious it was there for months
Trying to construct an unlimited freedom of speech has a tendency to lead to losing said freedom of speech. Hitler was elected because he was popular, and he was popular because of his speeches.
For a more modern example, see Trump and his campaign. He will almost certainly win primary (he's been holding the lead for almost the entire time since he started his campaign), and, if his supporters will intimidate enough people on the side of Democrats into not voting by threats of physical violence (and they're known for regularly beating up people, usually minorities, on pro-Trump rallies), he may very well win the title of President of USA, and turn it into fascist-land.
Protect freedom of speech by restricting it? That's one of those slippery slopes I don't care to be on. The American system where only very limited classes of speech can be restricted, and then only in the least burdening way possible, is ideal.
Montreux convention is shitty but I hope Turkey will find a way to close the straights to Russian ships. It will be hilarious.
It's very hilarious to see world inching closer to WW3 because of Turkey, indeed.
Well, if you consider Turkey to be at war in Syria, the Montreux convention gives it the right to block the passage of warships throught he straits. Turkey also has that right if it thinks it is "in imminent danger of war".
How would that be hilarious? Besides the fact that we all assumed since the Cold War days that WWIII would be between Russia and US.How would that not be hilarious? It'd almost be like Belgium starting all wars in human history
Trying to construct an unlimited freedom of speech has a tendency to lead to losing said freedom of speech. Hitler was elected because he was popular, and he was popular because of his speeches.
For a more modern example, see Trump and his campaign. He will almost certainly win primary (he's been holding the lead for almost the entire time since he started his campaign), and, if his supporters will intimidate enough people on the side of Democrats into not voting by threats of physical violence (and they're known for regularly beating up people, usually minorities, on pro-Trump rallies), he may very well win the title of President of USA, and turn it into fascist-land.
Protect freedom of speech by restricting it? That's one of those slippery slopes I don't care to be on. The American system where only very limited classes of speech can be restricted, and then only in the least burdening way possible, is ideal.
Aha, thats why snowden/Julian Assange run away after talking about the illegal things USA was doing.
Ehh, cant post funny image to big
The S-400 anti-aircraft missile system have arrived at the Hmeimim airbaseFor use against who? Daesh don't have aircraft, SFAIK; I'm not sure anybody local other than the Syrian regime and 'fellow' international forces against terrorism have aircraft. And shooting down a Turkish aircraft (across/on the border) isn't going to help, and the possibility of the warheads with 120-400km range 'doing an MH17' is going to cause tension. Never mind if something like that happens.
The S-400 anti-aircraft missile system have arrived at the Hmeimim airbaseFor use against who? Daesh don't have aircraft, SFAIK; I'm not sure anybody local other than the Syrian regime and 'fellow' international forces against terrorism have aircraft. And shooting down a Turkish aircraft (across/on the border) isn't going to help, and the possibility of the warheads with 120-400km range 'doing an MH17' is going to cause tension. Never mind if something like that happens.
Apparently France and Russia just had a meeting where they agreed to coordinate their strikes against Daesh and "not target factions fighting Daesh".
Russia considering switching imports it needs from Turkey to Israel (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4731300,00.html), the choice of nation no doubt being a deliberate insult to TurkeyYes, this is some hilarious news. Also, that picture. Where is Russia image from, seem familiar? Also also, lol Serbia borders clearly drawn by anti-Serb elements, There is some rightful Serb clay left, right and bottom still unclaimed. Also 3, Lichtenstein being of no significance makes me hurt.Spoiler: it's time (click to show/hide)
New theory: they though it was Syrian and warned it in arabic. :p
[0:05] Unknown ?? zero-four-zero thirtyforty? mile. This is Turkish Air Force speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish airspace. Change your heading to south immediately, change your heading to south.Notice the lack of any warnings about "you're entering Turkish airspace, leave immediately or you'll be shot down". I've listened to it specifically, and I can say that I can't recognize anything that sounds like that, as well (it doesn't help that it's nearly unintelligible at the end).
[0:18] Unknown air ?? position to ?? zero-zero-five radial thirty five miles ?? Air Force speaking. You are ??. Change your heading south immediately, change your heading south.
[0:29] Unknown air traffic position to ?? two-three-zero radial ??eight miles. Turkish Air Force speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish airspace. Change your heading south immediately, change your heading to south.
[0:41] Unknown air traffic ?? ?? zero-five-zero radial thirty four miles, this is Turkish airforce speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish airspace. Change your heading south immediately.
[0:51] The unknown air traffic position to ?? two-three-zero radial thirty one, this is Turkish Air Force speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish airspace. Change your heading south immediately.
[1:03] The unknown air traffic position to ?? zero-one-zero radial twenty six miles this is Turkish Air Force speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish airspace. Change your heading south immediately.
[1:13] The unknown air traffic position to ?? zero-two-zero radial thirty miles, this is Turkish Air Force speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish airspace. Change your heading south immediately.
[1:24] The unknown air traffic position to ?? zero-two-zero radial twenty six miles, this is Turkish Air Force speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish airspace. Change your heading south immediately.
[1:36] The unknown air traffic position to ?? zero-two-zero radial twenty six miles, this is Turkish Air Force speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish airspace. Change your heading south immediately.
[1:47] The unknown air traffic position to ?? zero-two-zero radial twenty two miles, this is Turkish Air Force speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish airspace. Change your heading south immediately.
[1:57] The unknown air traffic position to ?? zero-two-zero radial twenty six miles, this is Turkish Air Force speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish air space. Change your heading south immediately.
[2:05] The unknown air traffic position to ?? zero-one-zero radial twenty six miles, this is Turkish Air Force speaking on guard. You are approaching Turkish airspace. Change your heading south immediately.
According to the surviving Russian pilot, it sounds like they didn't get any communication from Turkey, not even 'you're approaching Turkish airspace.'I don't think there are any "third" parties that are realistically capable of doing that.
What would be nice is confirmation of the crash site and radar data from a third or maybe even fourth party.
According to the surviving Russian pilot, it sounds like they didn't get any communication from Turkey, not even 'you're approaching Turkish airspace.'I don't think there are any "third" parties that are realistically capable of doing that.
What would be nice is confirmation of the crash site and radar data from a third or maybe even fourth party.
(slightly edited to remove the annoying smilies)
Zdzisław Beksiński, Polish artist who specialized in dystopian fuckery, his stuff is one of those arts that everyone knows (http://acidcow.com/pics/64681-zdzislaw-beksinskis-visions-of-hell.html) just by sheer cultural osmosis, like a subliminal imprintRussia considering switching imports it needs from Turkey to Israel (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4731300,00.html), the choice of nation no doubt being a deliberate insult to TurkeyYes, this is some hilarious news. Also, that picture. Where is Russia image from, seem familiar? Also also, lol Serbia borders clearly drawn by anti-Serb elements, There is some rightful Serb clay left, right and bottom still unclaimed. Also 3, Lichtenstein being of no significance makes me hurt.Spoiler: it's time (click to show/hide)
That's the gist of the "And [it] isn't going to help..." bit. Either it is an empty threat and doesn't mean anything or its a non-empty threat that will be accompanied by more 'border-scrapers' from the Russians which Turkey's not likely to back down from, merely station counter-counter-measures of its own, etc.The S-400 anti-aircraft missile system have arrived at the Hmeimim airbaseFor use against who? Daesh don't have aircraft, SFAIK; I'm not sure anybody local other than the Syrian regime and 'fellow' international forces against terrorism have aircraft. And shooting down a Turkish aircraft (across/on the border) isn't going to help, and the possibility of the warheads with 120-400km range 'doing an MH17' is going to cause tension. Never mind if something like that happens.
Haven't you read the last several pages? :P It's because Turkey shot down a Russian jet and now the Russians are putting that there because they're threatening (and actually have a right to) to shoot down any Turkish aircraft that does do that.
Of course though, both sides ramping up the rhetoric and not backing down isn't helping.
I was suspecting something like that. This is why all regular (i.e. not Turkey) air border control operations have the guard airforce establish a visual contact with the airspace violators, to prevent bullshit like that.
Or that, too. Which add more evidence to the version that Turkey's airforce did not want to actually communicate and was just itching to shoot someone. Extremely unprofessional.I was suspecting something like that. This is why all regular (i.e. not Turkey) air border control operations have the guard airforce establish a visual contact with the airspace violators, to prevent bullshit like that.
Or they use the several frequencies and not just the local/international emergency one. Most of the time it isnt(globally) overly difficult to contact military aircraft provided they want to communicate.
Or that, too. Which add more evidence to the version that Turkey's airforce did not want to actually communicate and was just itching to shoot someone. Extremely unprofessional.I was suspecting something like that. This is why all regular (i.e. not Turkey) air border control operations have the guard airforce establish a visual contact with the airspace violators, to prevent bullshit like that.
Or they use the several frequencies and not just the local/international emergency one. Most of the time it isnt(globally) overly difficult to contact military aircraft provided they want to communicate.
I do. ISIS are still fucking alive and kicking. They must be dealt with first, that is impossible to happen if there is a war between Russia and a fucking member of NATO.
That's the gist of the "And [it] isn't going to help..." bit. Either it is an empty threat and doesn't mean anything or its a non-empty threat that will be accompanied by more 'border-scrapers' from the Russians which Turkey's not likely to back down from, merely station counter-counter-measures of its own, etc.
http://www.janes.com/article/56295/russian-su-24m-communications-equipment-blamed-for-shootdown
Notice the use of the word "may". Its a tiny article and almost no reference to sources, but Janes has some reputation when it comes to military intelligence... I'm expecting them to cover this more in the future.
edit: actually its just a sample of the long article.
I was suspecting something like that. This is why all regular (i.e. not Turkey) air border control operations have the guard airforce establish a visual contact with the airspace violators, to prevent bullshit like that.
And yeah, the whole thing is extremely unprofessional.
That would make them unprofessional AND stupid. Unprofessional because of Erdogan's administration completely abandoning diplomacy in favour of "Turkey STRONK", stupid because he failed completely to prevent Russia from bombing Turkey-related rebels. Which is what he most likely wanted to happen.And yeah, the whole thing is extremely unprofessional.
You're assuming Turkey didn't want to down a Russian jet.
That would make them unprofessional AND stupid. Unprofessional because of Erdogan's administration completely abandoning diplomacy in favour of "Turkey STRONK", stupid because he failed completely to prevent Russia from bombing Turkey-related rebels. Which is what he most likely wanted to happen.And yeah, the whole thing is extremely unprofessional.
You're assuming Turkey didn't want to down a Russian jet.
http://lenta.ru/news/2015/11/27/zhirinovski/
Well, the leader of liberal-democratical party suggests nuking Stambul.
Most liberally-democratical way of solving problems.
That's the same person who in ~1994 wanted to put giant fans on the border with Estonia to flung radioactive dust at their territory, isn't it?
INB4 Daesh provides the confirmationAccording to the surviving Russian pilot, it sounds like they didn't get any communication from Turkey, not even 'you're approaching Turkish airspace.'I don't think there are any "third" parties that are realistically capable of doing that.
What would be nice is confirmation of the crash site and radar data from a third or maybe even fourth party.
That is why I am proud when Russians call me a neo-nazi or fascist. In their twisted world everything has opposite meaning.
Fascists and communists have so many simmilar attributes that they can't be direct opposite :P
Unfortunately there was never a real communist government out there. All of them were corrupt dictators that abused the system.So communism; strike down aristocrats, get some mandatory reeducation and in the wake of hundreds of millions dead install bureaucrats in lieu of aristocrats? 10/10 would grow mustache again
Only so far as communism treating the world as its countryFascists and communists have so many simmilar attributes that they can't be direct opposite :PSince fascism has nationalism as one of it's main pillars, while communism is oriented at internationalism, you can very well call them opposites.
Don't shit on your doorstephttp://lenta.ru/news/2015/11/27/zhirinovski/
Well, the leader of liberal-democratical party suggests nuking Stambul.
Most liberally-democratical way of solving problems.
Google translated version (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Flenta.ru%2Fnews%2F2015%2F11%2F27%2Fzhirinovski%2F&edit-text=&act=url)
To be more precise, he wants to nuke the Bosporus strait to try and create a tsunami that will flood Istanbul along with the usual destruction that a nuke would cause.
That's because it looks bad. ]They need to make it look better. If something like this happened to the US, people would be like "Look at Obama, always letting the terrorists shoot down our jets." Putin doesn't want Russians to think he is soft on people who blow up their jets (being anti-obama in that respect is literally his thing), and honestly he hasn't done an overly good job. If I was a very right-wing russian, I for one would be going "so kebab literally declared war, and our military response is holding up turkish food in customs? Fuck that nonsense."RussiaPutin & CO seem to be also using all possible PR value from the incident.
I mean under a certain definition you could probably point to the Jacobins as the closest to international communism in the sense of "EXPORT THE REVOLUTION" that they seemed to have going on. Certainly nothing after the start of the Fourth International, as that is already when communism was irreversibly co-opted by the Other Man of Steel.That's because it looks bad. ]They need to make it look better. If something like this happened to the US, people would be like "Look at Obama, always letting the terrorists shoot down our jets." Putin doesn't want Russians to think he is soft on people who blow up their jets (being anti-obama in that respect is literally his thing), and honestly he hasn't done an overly good job. If I was a very right-wing russian, I for one would be going "so kebab literally declared war, and our military response is holding up turkish food in customs? Fuck that nonsense."RussiaPutin & CO seem to be also using all possible PR value from the incident.
Russia has removed Turkey from the premises. (http://mapfail.tumblr.com/post/133982490179/whole-of-turkey-removed-from-yandex-maps-for-a)
Russia has removed Turkey from the premises. (http://mapfail.tumblr.com/post/133982490179/whole-of-turkey-removed-from-yandex-maps-for-a)Obviously, Russia is planning on sinking Turkey. One way or another.
Now if the Kurds were to adopt Russian as their native language...Russia has removed Turkey from the premises. (http://mapfail.tumblr.com/post/133982490179/whole-of-turkey-removed-from-yandex-maps-for-a)Obviously, Russia is planning on sinking Turkey. One way or another.
If they really wanted to be clever though... rename Turkey to Kurdistan.
He is not crazy, actually. Telling stuff like this is gaining him votes.That's the same person who in ~1994 wanted to put giant fans on the border with Estonia to flung radioactive dust at their territory, isn't it?
I don't know, he's your crazy politician, not mine.
Today, Putin claims that "Turkey shooting down our fighter was motivated by oil interests. Turkey receives oil from IS, and wanted to protect that"
So basically he's the Donald Trump / Geert Wilders of Russia?Well, there is some difference. Trump was person of increased economical possibilities before going into politics, and this guy makes his blackjack and hookers with politics.
Today, Putin claims that "Turkey shooting down our fighter was motivated by oil interests. Turkey receives oil from IS, and wanted to protect that"
Wasn't he accusing the turkish of selling oil to IS last week?
Today, NATO invited Montenegro to become the 29th member of NATO.
Russia's official response was "if that happens, we will retaliate"
Today, NATO invited Montenegro to become the 29th member of NATO.
Russia's official response was "if that happens, we will retaliate"
Heard a rumor that Erdogan's son was selling ISIS oil to Israel.
Source: haaretzHeard a rumor that Erdogan's son was selling ISIS oil to Israel.No, Israel buys Kurdish oil.
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.672599
Source: haaretzHeard a rumor that Erdogan's son was selling ISIS oil to Israel.No, Israel buys Kurdish oil.
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.672599
lol no
Btw the source for Israel getting oil from ISIS is Al Araby so it's already suspect and based on unproven claims
Notably the Kurdish regional government denies selling oil to Israel directly or indirectly and say they do not care where the oil goes once they have delivered it to the traders.
An Islamic State representative told Al Araby Al-Jadeed the group did not intend to provide oil to Israel but was not involved in the process once it was sold on.
“To be fair, the [IS] organisation sells oil from caliphate territories but does not aim to sell it to Israel or any other country,” he said. “It produces and sells it via mediators, then companies, who decide whom to sell it to.”
http://www.timesofisrael.com/arab-paper-claims-israel-biggest-buyer-of-islamic-state-oil/
If toi is to be trusted no one knows who they're selling to once it reaches traders and no one knows who they're buying from once they're buying from traders
Source: haaretzHeard a rumor that Erdogan's son was selling ISIS oil to Israel.No, Israel buys Kurdish oil.
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.672599
lol no
Al Araby
There is a saying that half of Montenegro is own by Russians. There will probably be some more unrests because of them joining NATO as it happens very often by Montenegro populationNever heard that saying. I've only heard the saying that Montenegro should rejoin Serbia because what the fuck guys. Personally I think it's silly, but the Russian reaction is both obvious and stupid. "By letting Montenegro join NATO, NATO furthers it's encirclement of Russia". No it furthers their encirclement of Serbia, obviously.
lol :Dm8 we agree on that :D
As sad as it is, Ukraine will never pick itself up as long as Russia exists in some form. The reality is, that despite national desire to exist outside of their sphere of influence, Ukraine is doomed to share its fate with Russia, and have its fate dictated by whomever rules the Kremlin at any point of time.
In an ideal world, Europe as a whole should contain Russia, but the fact is, everyone is driven by realpolitik and thus we are either doomed to deal with foreign influence or home-grown corruption. As Ukraine never experienced itself as a independent state with projection of power beyond its own borders and nascent democracy, it is caught between aggressive East and absent-minded West.
As sad as it is, Ukraine will never pick itself up as long as Russia exists in some form. The reality is, that despite national desire to exist outside of their sphere of influence, Ukraine is doomed to share its fate with Russia, and have its fate dictated by whomever rules the Kremlin at any point of time.
In an ideal world, Europe as a whole should contain Russia, but the fact is, everyone is driven by realpolitik and thus we are either doomed to deal with foreign influence or home-grown corruption. As Ukraine never experienced itself as a independent state with projection of power beyond its own borders and nascent democracy, it is caught between aggressive East and absent-minded West.
Almost two years since Maidan won. What changed in Ukraine under Maidan's government?Thanks for that update / overview of what's going on in Ukraine politics. It is informative.
First and the most important - Maidan's government exists only in Russian propaganda.
Our president was\is a compromise between "Maidan" and "no Maidan" parts of electorate and got a respectable 54% of votes in the first round. He won in every region of Ukraine.
Our parliament is very mixed. All parties that existed before the Maidan were allowed to participate in elections, even Communist Party of Ukraine was banned after they lost at parliamentary elections. Major players of Maidan far right "Svoboda" and "Right Sector" lost proportional part of elections and got only few seats through majority part A lot of members of Party of Regions got through with rebranded Party of Regions or various new parties or through majority part as no affiliated.
Our Cabinet of Ministers is formed by parliament. One can say that it is formed by Maidan politicans... It is simply not true. It is formed by a mix of Maidan politicians and former anti-Yanukovitch opposition who were\are not angels. Like corrupted as hell Yulia Tymoshenko.
Now... what is achieved in two years. To be honest not that much
1) Real reform in the army. Everything was improved and while we have a long road to go, nowadays we have a much better army.
2) Start of police reform. City after city gets new patrol police. Formed from new young people right from the streets they get few months of training and start patrolling. "Somehow" they do the job better than "professionals with years of experience". Streets are getting safer
In the same time process of re-attestation of current police employee has started.
3) Government procurements is harder to exploit with this open public procurement system - http://prozorro.org/en/ (http://prozorro.org/en/)
4) We avoided a default. (No Russians, us showing you middle finger with $3 billions loaned by Yanukovitch is not a default)
oh and
5) Half of Ukraine is not occupied by Russia\Russian quasi states as they planned
The bad:
1) Lack of Justice... Corrupted scum that stole millions, people responsible for Maidan crimes, traitors that assisted Russian aggression are free and happy. Judges and persecutors are the same shit as they always were. Reforms in this sphere are more like empty words than any real change.
2) Economy is going down, down, down. It is hard to expect something else during the war but combined with the lack of justice it causes dissent. A lot of dissent. Ukraine is losing internal stability.
As sad as it is, Ukraine will never pick itself up as long as Russia exists in some form. The reality is, that despite national desire to exist outside of their sphere of influence, Ukraine is doomed to share its fate with Russia, and have its fate dictated by whomever rules the Kremlin at any point of time.I don't entirely agree, but I base that mostly on examples like Austria, which formed largely out of legal fiat and, with some speed bumps, did succeed in forming its own national consciousness; Switzerland, Luxembourg, and to a lesser degree even the Netherlands (though this one's obviously far more questionable) may also apply, all of which survived the peak of German nationalism intact. I think Ukraine can pick itself up even with Russia still in existence, but not so much while it's under siege. I fear that any freeze of the conflict in the Donbass will arguably be more dangerous to any serious Ukrainian reform than the clean break that occurred with the Crimea or the mere existence of Russia in any way, shape, or form, precisely because of its chilling effects on Ukrainian politics; it provides a very convenient "bloody flag" that can be waved by any corrupt or radical politician that so desires. Ukraine can coexist with Russia, if both are willing. The problem isn't that Russia exists, but rather that it is not willing.
In an ideal world, Europe as a whole should contain Russia, but the fact is, everyone is driven by realpolitik and thus we are either doomed to deal with foreign influence or home-grown corruption. As Ukraine never experienced itself as a independent state with projection of power beyond its own borders and nascent democracy, it is caught between aggressive East and absent-minded West.
Luxembourg is the odd one out. I can't really think of any real reason that they stayed independent beyond historical accident, as I don't really know the history of the nation at all.You didn't. The person I was actually responding to with the original post you rebutted did. That said, yes, Luxembourg's independence was largely preserved as a consequence of French designs; French preference was to annex it themselves, but it was German opposition to this (and French opposition to the converse possibility of the Germans annexing it) that preserved its independence. Again, to rebutt Ardas' point, a condition that did not rely on Germany not existing.
I'm also having trouble parsing what you mean about Switzerland, as I never said anything about their independent streak being dependent on Germany not existing.
Edit: Looking into it, I'm willing to bet that Luxembourg (and the Netherlands to a lesser extent, they still had their overseas empire) remained independent, not so much for their own sakes or causes, but because while the Great Powers surrounding and rivaling Prussia and eventually Germany could "allow" Germany proper to form, these two nations on the outskirts of the old Empire were acting more like buffer states, and that if Germany were to take them, relations would have soured far too much and may have lead to an earlier World War. I could be talking out of my ass here, but if I'm not, I'm also willing to bet that the same kind of thing kept Switzerland independent; if Germany were to try and take them in anything but a diplomatic annexation (and possibly even then), it would have been a sign that Germany is overstepping its bounds in the game of Empire and would have needed to been cut down a little.
If I'm right about that, to any extent, then that's even more mirroring the current situation with Russia and the Russophone minorites and nations surrounding it.
fighting Russia off and forging their own path certainly seems like a way to nation build.There are no need to build a nation when it exists already. Some rebuilding and (re)assimilating "Soviet" quasi-nation may be necessary but it is different.
This was half the reason I noted the Netherlands as being a particular edge case, with the other half - and the reason I didn't also include the Swiss - being linguistic: while Dutch is relatively close to Plattdeutsch, standard German is much more derived from Hochdeutsch as far as I am aware.This is very much true. Dutch not being considered a dialect of German is a historical accident, just like Plattdeutsch being considered a dialect of German and not a dialect of Dutch.
Ah. Right. Hm.Crusader for truth, justice, and the shitposting way? :P Nah, but seriously, always feel free to weigh in, even if it isn't directly relevant to making some point, if I'm wrong about something; I so often am. ^_^
... You know, I'm not even sure what my position here is, anyway.
/me wanders off to shitpost some more in the emotion threads.
Plattdeutsch is what they (traditionally) speak in Lower Saxony. It's basically unintelligible to a standard High German speaker - my mom speaks it perfectly, and I've grown up being exposed to it rather regularly, but I can at most understand two thirds. It's a form of Low German, and thus rather close to Dutch - hence my comment.Personally, I can read that pretty fluently. It's kindof in between German, the Dutch dialect from the province Overijssel (https://nds.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twentsch (https://nds.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twentsch)), and the official language Frysk, which is the Netherlands' second officially recognized language (https://fy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frysk (https://fy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frysk)).
Here's the plattdeutsche wiki article on Plattdeutsch. (https://nds.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plattd%C3%BC%C3%BCtsch) Let me know how much you understand!
, while Ukraine formed and was molded by its existence within autocratic Russia, which never gave any quarter to its subjects.That's provably wrong. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchy_of_Finland)
To survive Ukraine has to become stronger, much stronger. In the same time Ukraine must do whatever possible to weaken Russia or strenghten its enemies.A very shortsighted goal, the West did fund anti-communists only to find a greater threat in nazis and even today this exact policy and ended up replacing weak secular opposition with Jihadist opposition, it is a very short-sighted view which will only result in more and more enemies leveled against you until death. By all means do not hesitate to take action and destroy your enemies when you must, but do so with wisdom, not retardation as your guide. The Romans understood it was not enough to destroy your enemy without either utterly exterminating any ability for anyone to succeed in that area, or by conquering it and replacing that power vacuum with themselves, or by merely not wasting resources destroying enemies who'd be replaced by new people with old grudges.
Can't we just be optimists and pretend that we can all be friends? D:Nuh uh. In the grimdarkness of Eastern Europe, there is only war.
Can't we just be optimists and pretend that we can all be friends? D:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Why does she have warts.
This just in: Australia's High Court has cleared deportation of asylum seekers from the mainland to offshore detention centers. In response, nearly a dozen Anglican churches have offered sanctuary to those at risk of deportation, in hopes the PR disaster of police officers storming holy ground to drag people out will discourage officials from acting.
http://www.9news.com.au/national/2016/02/04/07/50/anglicans-offer-asylum-seekers-sanctuary (http://www.9news.com.au/national/2016/02/04/07/50/anglicans-offer-asylum-seekers-sanctuary)
The circles are supposed to be err... 'cute' blush things, representing cute girls looking cute. The rest are sweat drops.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Why does she have warts.
Those are supposed to be tears, I think.
Should have done the anime waterfall tears.
Note that the group of refugees about to be deported are mostly babies and children born in Australia (and their immigrant parents). The court ruled that it's okay to deport babies and children, against a child's mother who filed a lawsuit.No, they are not mostly babies or children. There are 54. Letting them stay because good feels completely ignores that letting them stay encourages more human traffickers to send people across the Indian Ocean to Australia where most will perish, it is the retardation of Germany to repeat the mistake that resulted in tens of thousands dying in the Meditteranean and millions overcoming Europe to do the same in Australia. They give them medical treatment needed and send them back. Australia has to deal with a few dozens, Germany cannot deal with its millions - when at first Germany need only deal with tens of thousands, and before that thousands. In just two years Australia ended human trafficking from the Middle East and Southern Asia, sending hundreds on a perilous journey by boat to the promised land, by simply promising all who arrive will be sent home. No one is willing anymore to pay thousands to traffickers for a place they know will return them. The asylum seekers they have now are ones that arrived before they enacted this policy.
Human rights? Pffft. Lol UN, come at me bro.Every single one of those boats passes through Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia. They are not even allowed to dock on the islands of those three countries, and if they are caught the human traffickers amongst them are executed and everyone on board deported. Yet Australia shows them this compassion, and are attacked for not showing more by giving them permanent residency.
This just in: Australia's High Court has cleared deportation of asylum seekers from the mainland to offshore detention centers. In response, nearly a dozen Anglican churches have offered sanctuary to those at risk of deportation, in hopes the PR disaster of police officers storming holy ground to drag people out will discourage officials from acting.Trying to play PR with a media that has already taken its side is pointless, least of all on unholy ground. Those that play on puppet strings will find they will only ever become just that - a puppet. I also do not see who loses face in a successful bipartisan policy, as cowering to appease problematic progressives with no power could be no greater humiliation to all of Australia.
BBC is now apparently making Cold War-esque anti-Russian films again (http://www.standard.co.uk/stayingin/tvfilm/world-war-three-inside-the-war-room-asks-how-britain-and-its-allies-would-react-in-the-face-of-a3172156.html), this time about how Putin shall attack Latvia for reasons unknown and nuke British troops in process."Strategic funding" to counter Sputnik news and Russian shillery.
The Russian official review was really predictable, though (http://sputniknews.com/world/20160204/1034200088/bbc-nato-russia-ww3.html). The full film can be found on Russian streaming sites like Rutube.
The Kremlin's international media operation appears to be going from strength to strength with two recent high-profile launches and more in the pipeline.At any rate I should hope people do not base their worldviews upon media, but unfortunately that is definitively wrong.
But it is also coming under increased scrutiny over its lack of editorial balance and accusations that it is deliberately using disinformation to counter and divide the West. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30040363)
where are you getting your numbers for refugees in europe/germany
the most i've seen is 1.2 million for all of europe, and 442K for germany in 2015
"millions"
You've taken your number for Germany from the formal asylum applications that year, which is just under 480,000. The number registered was under 1.5 million, for that year, for Germany alone. Current estimates for Germany in 2016 range from the optimistic (a fall to 900,000 a year) to the probable (a rise to 3 million a year) to the pessimistic (10 million beyond 2016, given by Gerd Muller, German minister of economic development).Spoiler: JUST CITE MY SHIT UP (click to show/hide)
like at least one and a fifth millions
He said as much in his post.Note that the group of refugees about to be deported are mostly babies and children born in Australia (and their immigrant parents). The court ruled that it's okay to deport babies and children, against a child's mother who filed a lawsuit.
No, they are not mostly babies or children.
Yet Australia shows them this compassion,The Australians are not showing any kindness. They are shoving them into what are basically modern-day concentration camps. Stop lying.
The Anglican Church is currently mired in 5th columnists who unironically call for the de-Christianization of the Anglosphere, just as the Irish Catholic Church tried convincing the Irish that they weren't dismantling their beliefs.
Trying to play PR with a media that has already taken its side is pointless, least of all on unholy ground. Those that play on puppet strings will find they will only ever become just that - a puppet. I also do not see who loses face in a successful bipartisan policy, as cowering to appease problematic progressives with no power could be no greater humiliation to all of Australia.
He said as much in his post.Said as, not as said. Most is not most.
The Australians are not showing any kindness. They are shoving them into what are basically modern-day concentration camps. Stop lying.Yeah it's basically Auschwitz, those dastardly Australians taking them off their ramshackle boats in order to gas them with their zyklon B, they should be more like the southeast Asians and just send the boats back to the ocean. I'm sorry for lying, I didn't realize the Australians were literally quite Hitler.
This is, quite literally, some /pol/ tier bullshit.Literally used to mean something you know. Same with quite.
Why, I don't see any way that violating holy sanctuary in order to drag out innocent people and force them into concentration camps could have any negative effects at all.Holy Sanctuary was abolished four centuries ago and as practiced would ensue with those refugees having to surrender themselves to secular authorities after 40 days or be executed. If we were to believe these apparent Anglicans knew anything about Anglicanism (why the bloody hell are they clinging to a practice outdated by Papal standards ffs) then they were deliberately acting in contravention with the faith - such a thing is called sinning.
Oh.
Wait.
snipAre you going to use actual arguments, or are you going to put words in my mouth?
snipAre you going to use actual arguments, or are you going to put words in my mouth?
The Australians are not showing any kindness. They are shoving them into what are basically modern-day concentration camps. Stop lying.at least Australians are going to survive as a nation
Considering they're financed & administered by Australian goverment departments blaming standards on another country is pretty weak.Considering Nauru would not accept the processing centre if it was not financed by the Australian government...? Consider that the Nauru government lets the immigrants have free reign of the island and the Australians get no say on that, nor do the Australians control the Nauru police and whom they charge with offences.
I've presented my arguments and you've come up with nothing but emotional appeals and ad hominem. You say they are innocent, I point out they are illegal immigrants. You say the Australian government is violating holy sanctuary, I point out the lovely consequence of the Anglicans trying to hold ancient heretical doctrine as above secular law. I say giving these people residency will encourage more to make the journey - showing where with Germany exactly that happened, and how with Australia they stopped this from happening after a mere two years, and you respond by saying the Australians are putting innocent people into "basically" modern day concentration camps, not even addressing my argument at all. Come on m8 are you even trying, you got the cheeki breeki to say I have no argument when there is nothing but arguments with citations for days and all you've brought is emotional appeals, I want more substance if you want to convince me what the Australians are doing is wrongsnipAre you going to use actual arguments, or are you going to put words in my mouth?
Welcome to LoudPolitics.Take yourself seriously or I won't, it's the a golden rule of shitposting; everyone throws around big claims and big words without any bloody sources
2 Geopolitical controversiesI talk about issues of taxation, debt, fishing rights and surveillance but no one ever seems interested in those discussions because they are rightfully not as exciting as geopolitical controversies. I still never got to talk about the Swiss!
1 Healthy Spoonful of nationalismremove commie REMOVE COMMIE
A serving of political viewsNot sure if I should remove commie again
Cherry-flavour statisticsSo ITT people were deliberately picking the statistics that only recorded formal asylum seekers in order to misrepresent the crisis as being smaller than it is (without even citing!) whilst I posted the most accurate and even posted the most up to date statistics available from BBC news, Reuters, Bloomberg, Huffpo, Economist, Merkel, Washpo, Telegraph, Guardian, Independent, Eurostat, UNHCR and even some bloody German economic minister and I am the one cherry picking? I have been selecting for the most conservative estimates every time m9, you're trying to jimmy my rustles here :D
A shocking and terrible world news sToryI didn't make the world fucked up, it just do and I see it do like it does
First, take your controversies and let them boil. A few months to a year should do it.The bag is labelled banter and it's your funeral if you like the spicy casserole more than a tax custard
Add the nationalism and let simmer. Mix in the political views and statistics together, and turn up the heat. Leave no more than a day.
Next, transfer the mixture to a bag labelled "Internet humour", place on a hard surface and smash repeatedly with a cricket-bat of memes.
Remove dish from bag and place in casserole dish. Garnish with a shocking and terrible world news story, and serve immediately.
Serves the entire General subforum.
The Australians are not showing any kindness. They are shoving them into what are basically modern-day concentration camps. Stop lying.at least Australians are going to survive as a nation
unlike Germans and Swedes, who at this point at #1 candidates for getting quickly replaced with migrants, given that they're already in the majority compared with the natives in the youngest cohorts (i.e. the ones that matter), and the migration will only continue to rise in intensity because of the ghost of Hitler making people lose their minds and allow mass produced crimes (like illegal immigration, for example) to continue without any, even symbolic, repercussions, thus setting up a bomb under the whole "rule of law" structure that will inevitably blow up when the migrants will realise that they can do anything and no one will stop them because of "toleran progressiv".
I was not arguing about whether the Australian approach was effective, I was responding to your claim that the Australians were treating them kindly. Needless to say, they are not. (https://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-work/asylum-seekers-and-refugees/publications/health-and-well-being-children-immigration) In addition to this, the Australian government has tried to cover up (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-33923485) health issues faced by asylum seekers.Fair enough, and really you don't need to apologize, it's all just shitposts at the end of the day
EDIT: Sorry about the whole "holy sanctuary" thing. That was a rather poor choice of wording on my part.
EDIT2: Actually, since I'm here, I might as well apologize in general, given that I acted a lot more combative than I should have.
Well I'm pretty sure we actually replaced the natives a bit over 200 years ago, though not really the pt.Exactly, look at China and how they've survived several wars and diseases and even Mongolians to produce death tolls in the hundreds of millions, yet they were always China because no foreign population in sufficient number ever moved in to replace them
To be honest I don't have a problem with offshore processing. I have a problem with people acting as if putting an Australian detention center in the nearest poor country desperate for cash makes it no longer an Australian detention center.Should they put it in Singapore?
Reading about how Malaysia put sedatives in the water of their illegal immigrants to make deporting them easier is checki, though I have not found any attempt at a deal with Aussie from Malaysia nor one from Singapore. Only deal I found was actually one from 5 years ago where the Aussies wanted to exchange their refugees for a net gain of Malaysian ones for some reason
Here's an obvious question I'm currently too tired to think about though, why aren't they just processed asap? Then they can be refuged or returned asapThe reason I've always been given is a lack of paperwork proving where they're from. People will spend years in detention centres just because you can't prove they're from anywhere. I guess you could add on top of that bureaucracy. Everything just takes longer when it's a government department.
2 Geopolitical controversiesI talk about issues of taxation, debt, fishing rights and surveillance but no one ever seems interested in those discussions because they are rightfully not as exciting as geopolitical controversies. I still never got to talk about the Swiss!
No no you picked up the meme bat too early now the flavour is all ruined.1 Healthy Spoonful of nationalismremove commie REMOVE COMMIE
[ARRANGES_BLOCKS:PERPETUAL]A serving of political viewsNot sure if I should remove commie again
Cherry-flavour statisticsSo ITT people were deliberately picking the statistics that only recorded formal asylum seekers in order to misrepresent the crisis as being smaller than it is (without even citing!) whilst I posted the most accurate and even posted the most up to date statistics available from BBC news, Reuters, Bloomberg, Huffpo, Economist, Merkel, Washpo, Telegraph, Guardian, Independent, Eurostat, UNHCR and even some bloody German economic minister and I am the one cherry picking? I have been selecting for the most conservative estimates every time m9, you're trying to jimmy my rustles here :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMMV_RoEMxE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMMV_RoEMxE)A shocking and terrible world news sToryI didn't make the world fucked up, it just do and I see it do like it does
The point at which I realised you missed the point of the post.First, take your controversies and let them boil. A few months to a year should do it.The bag is labelled banter and it's your funeral if you like the spicy casserole more than a tax custard
Add the nationalism and let simmer. Mix in the political views and statistics together, and turn up the heat. Leave no more than a day.
Next, transfer the mixture to a bag labelled "Internet humour", place on a hard surface and smash repeatedly with a cricket-bat of memes.
Remove dish from bag and place in casserole dish. Garnish with a shocking and terrible world news story, and serve immediately.
Serves the entire General subforum.
No no you picked up the meme bat too early now the flavour is all ruined.Nah this is pesto, not Heston
[ARRANGES_BLOCKS:PERPETUAL]Sticklebrix my shit fam
I meant what I said. Cherry-flavored. As in at first sight you go "oh look that's cherry-picked", but if you actually poke around enough you find theYeah but you have to poke, I am insulted by the insinuation that I am not an evident shining beacon of truthtmadditivesfact that it isn't really at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMMV_RoEMxE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMMV_RoEMxE)Chemical bomb
The point at which I realised you missed the point of the post.Bobbin and weavin
Apart from being a cheap dig at your expense.
UAE says it's ready to send troops, Syria and Iran are warning Saudis not to try anything. (http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-syria-aleppo-20160207-story.html)
ONE STEP CLOSER TO VERY LARGE MODERN CONFLICT ONE
To Forager’s credit, they were sounding the alarm bells about Dick Smith from the start, writing in September 2013, before the float that:Never throw your money at something you haven't researched at all
The oldest trick in the retail-turnaround book is to write your inventory down to zero one year, sell it for 50 cents in the dollar the next and report yourself some handsome profits (the amazing thing about Billabong was that they got part 1 right and still couldn’t manage a profit).
Presumptuous of us, yes – we haven’t even seen a balance sheet – but our bet is that this is exactly what has happened with Dick Smith.
So who’s to blame for the demise of a once popular brand?
Today, Forager just pointed the finger on Twitter:
If you bought Dick Smith shares and are looking for someone to blame, find a mirror. We all make mistakes, and it's not ASIC's fault.
— Forager Funds (@ForagerFunds) January 6, 2016
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/why-dick-smith-was-called-the-greatest-private-equity-heist-of-all-time-2016-1
Does the UK count as non-EU yet?
Anyway, thanks to some celebrity chef stirring up trouble (http://www.news.com.au/national/jamie-oliver-pull-your-finger-out-australia/news-story/2be9cdbf6b683590306855b3faf35c90), they've got a new tax on sugar in soft drinks as part of their budget. I've no doubt Australia will follow suit, given how happy we are to tax the hell out of vices in the name of public health, despite the noise we currently have to the negative from those in the position to do so. Since we already pay near the highest tax in the world on the rum, why not on the cola too?http://www.telegraph.co.uk/food-and-drink/news/sugar-tax-what-does-it-mean-and-who-will-be-affected/
wait half a century for more natural states to carve themselves out?Well, considering that this carving-out process would essentially be a gore parade of genocides, it might not be the best course of action.
probably exclude israel from this though. might not go well for them if they had to fend for themselves.Might not go well for anyone. "We are not willing to state whether or not we have nukes, but we will annihilate anyone and everyone we can in nuclear hellfire should we be threatened with extermination again (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option)." I suppose glass is technically a natural state, though...
wait half a century for more natural states to carve themselves out?Well, considering that this carving-out process would essentially be a gore parade of genocides, it might not be the best course of action.
Sugar tax? We have a sugar tariff in the USA and the only thing that does (as far as sodas go) is ensure that our sodas are made with corn syrup instead.That's because you have massive corn subsidies whilst Europe actually cannot grow corn. Well, cheaper than sugar anyways. And Europe can't grow sugar really either, the amount of wars that were fought for overseas sugar growing land is pretty astounding
Statistics from 2008 showed at least 13 asylum seekers arrive through Australian airports daily, more than 32 times the number of boat people supposedly ''flooding'' across our maritime borders in that year. A total of 4768 ''plane people'', more than 96 per cent of applicants for refugee status, arrived in that year on legitimate tourist, business and other visas - compared with 161 who arrived by boat during the same period. While boat numbers have increased, Australian Government statistics from the first quarter of 2013 showed more than 90 per cent of asylum seekers who arrived by boat were found to be genuine refugees. In comparison, those who arrived by plane - despite being eligible for release into the community and not having to face years of detention on Nauru or Manus Island - were almost twice as likely to be rejected as refugees. The figure continued a long-term trend of high approval rates for people arriving by boat, with 93.5 per cent being found to be refugees in 2010-11 and 91 per cent in 2011-12.
So, the so-called "tough on refugees" government turn a blind eye to >96% of the refugee flow, only harassing a tiny minority who are almost all legitimate refugees. The irony is that this government has sold itself to blue collar workers as protecting their wages from immigrants, when in fact they ramped up skilled immigration at the same time they "cracked down" on 3% of the refugees, and brought in temporary work visas that often pay below minimum wage. They used the very public issue of refugees to paint themselves as anti-immigration, when in fact they brought in tons of third-world people to try and undercut the unions.I'm willing to bet this is all according to keikaku
Don't forget the USA is also the only nation who's used their military to down a civilian airliner over the owning country's airspace (Iran 1988). Every other incident has been where some plane flew over a specific country, usually by accident and not responding to contact, whereas Iranian flight 655 was over Iranian airspace on an established flight path. The commanding officer who killed 290 innocent people was viciously indicted in almost all investigations, but got zero punishment. In fact, he got a Legion of Merit award for that tour of duty.I don't see how this matters. At all.
It's "reckless and provocative" for Russian planes to be flying a few meters outside their airspace when Americans are rightly patrolling in a totally non-reckless and non-provocative manner all around the borders of Russia. Makes perfect sense.Flying so close over a ship that you make waves in the water? Repeatedly simulating attack runs? Not responding to radio contact?
Give me some evidence - any at all, really - of this being an American-engineered provocative event. And no, merely conducting exercises in the Baltics does not count as provocative.The existence of Poland, obviously. If they were still a part of Glorious Mother Russia, there would obviously be no reason for joint exercises between the Polish and American navies, and thus no reason for Americans to be in the Baltic. :P
e.g. a couple of years ago, the US flew some B2s close to North Korea and dropped test bombs on some sites.Which was done in response to North Korea threatening our allies.
those other country's has their planes fly out a km or 2 and have a look.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ylONaw4ODuk
Solution: Weaponize space, and threaten any group that attempts genocide with orbital bombardment. What could possibly go wrong?wait half a century for more natural states to carve themselves out?Well, considering that this carving-out process would essentially be a gore parade of genocides, it might not be the best course of action.
"The US military would have been within its rights to shoot down Russian aircraft that flew close to one of its warships in the Baltic Sea, Secretary of State John Kerry says" (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36050689)The Russians were out of line on this one. Buzzing foreign ships ten meters off the deck is a fucking stupid stunt, and amounts to nothing but reckless international dick-waving.
Escalation? What's that? It surely won't lead to anything unpleasant, like a diplomatic incident or a war, right?
Implying that politics is not dickwaving contest.Don't forget secret dickwaving
LW that's necropostingImplying that politics is not dickwaving contest.Don't forget secret dickwaving
/me opens in spite of admonitionSpoiler: CAUTION - do not open if you're not Loud Whispers! (click to show/hide)
Those ,,losers " probably get more money in year for kicking the ball, then all the welsh people together, despite being awful in kicking the ball.LW that's necropostingImplying that politics is not dickwaving contest.Don't forget secret dickwaving
for that breach of forum rules, you'll be subjected to a healthy dose ofSpoiler: CAUTION - do not open if you're not Loud Whispers! (click to show/hide)
Now, as for the thread-related news, Russian football team has just lost like a bitch, 3-0 to Welsh. Welsh. These fucking Russian losers better believe they're going to regret ever showing up there.
You think this miserable victory isn't going to cost them their salaries? I think it'll definitely mean that some of these fucks will bitch right out of the punk wagon that calls itself "Russian national football team", and other should also definitely feel the pain, too.Those ,,losers " probably get more money in year for kicking the ball, then all the welsh people together, despite being awful in kicking the ball.LW that's necropostingImplying that politics is not dickwaving contest.Don't forget secret dickwaving
for that breach of forum rules, you'll be subjected to a healthy dose ofSpoiler: CAUTION - do not open if you're not Loud Whispers! (click to show/hide)
Now, as for the thread-related news, Russian football team has just lost like a bitch, 3-0 to Welsh. Welsh. These fucking Russian losers better believe they're going to regret ever showing up there.
It is hard to call that losing for them .
Now, as for the thread-related news, Russian football team has just lost like a bitch, 3-0 to Welsh. Welsh. These fucking Russian losers better believe they're going to regret ever showing up there.
It was a entertaining match though. The Welsh crowd sang the full 90 minutes!And yet the the Russians walked away? They must have learnt from Zulus at Rourke's drift and issued military-spec earplugs to their side, to shield them from the ancient Welsh martial art of Carau-Ywcey (especially the particularly deadly Cytgord Agos variation).
Tried googling both those terms. Nothing came up, except a welsh wiki page about hardrock, 'Cerddoriaeth roc'. At least I think it's welsh.It was a entertaining match though. The Welsh crowd sang the full 90 minutes!And yet the the Russians walked away? They must have learnt from Zulus at Rourke's drift and issued military-spec earplugs to their side, to shield them from the ancient Welsh martial art of Carau-Ywcey (especially the particularly deadly Cytgord Agos variation).
But I fear we digress.
Tried googling both those terms. Nothing came up, except a welsh wiki page about hardrock, 'Cerddoriaeth roc'. At least I think it's welsh.It's Welsh. Cymraeg ("kəmˈraiɡ"). The second term's words are (badly) translated*, but both words are valid Welsh and seem to make sense in the context of that article.
https://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerddoriaeth_roc (https://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerddoriaeth_roc)
Can't they have the Judo and Shooting teams protect the rest? :PI don't think the Australian shooting teams gun license covers using it for self defence.
That's basically a law everywhere, nobody really cares unless it's a serious crime though.Problem with the law like this is that one can easily accuse someone that he knew that his neighbor\coworker\friend\guy he follows in twitter was preparing a crime.
The most repressive part of that in my opinion is 5-10 years for organising "mass unrest" unionising and protest would most definately be under that correct?
The day the Duma decided that Russia didn't need working Internet anyway (https://meduza.io/en/feature/2016/06/27/the-duma-s-new-big-brother-legislation-kills-russia-s-internet-companies-and-hurts-ordinary-web-users-here-s-how)
It's vote day Australia. All hail the new Bullet Train for Australia (https://bullettrainforaustralia.com.au/) party to power!The sixth of their official voter pledges strikes me as particularly tacked-on. For whatever reason.
Is this the relevant thread to post about the UK?They haven't left and might still not leave, so, no.
President Vladimir Putin suggested on Friday Russia could move its troops closer to the Finnish-Russian border if Finland joins NATO and called for measures to improve conflict prevention over the Baltic.
Finnish armed forces "would become part of NATO's military infrastructure, which overnight would be at the borders of the Russian Federation", Putin said after meeting Finnish President Sauli Niinisto.
"Do you think we will keep it as it is: our troops at 1,500 (kilometers, 900 miles) away?"
Putin's first visit to Finland since the Ukraine crisis erupted in 2014 comes amid increased Russian and NATO activity in the Baltic region, and with the militarily neutral Finland and neighboring Sweden increasing their co-operation with NATO. It also comes a week before a NATO summit in Warsaw.
Gool ol' Königsberg, you mean :POh, that I've heard of.
Quote from: ReutersPresident Vladimir Putin suggested on Friday Russia could move its troops closer to the Finnish-Russian border if Finland joins NATO and called for measures to improve conflict prevention over the Baltic.
Finnish armed forces "would become part of NATO's military infrastructure, which overnight would be at the borders of the Russian Federation", Putin said after meeting Finnish President Sauli Niinisto.
"Do you think we will keep it as it is: our troops at 1,500 (kilometers, 900 miles) away?"
Putin's first visit to Finland since the Ukraine crisis erupted in 2014 comes amid increased Russian and NATO activity in the Baltic region, and with the militarily neutral Finland and neighboring Sweden increasing their co-operation with NATO. It also comes a week before a NATO summit in Warsaw.
Lol at the bolded part. His lies are becoming more and more absurd
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmTyFd6W8AATQ-S.jpg)
It could be a false flag attack, the Muslims actually attacked themself, blamed Isis to make it seem like radical Muslims did it. That way Muslims will be blamed and ......For ISIS, Ramadan is the month of conquest and looting
No actually I think It just means that Isis is made of fanatical lunatics who don't care who they piss off.
Good luck in your next recruitment drive guys. Maybe you'll get some Israelis?
“It is going to be bloody,” he told a business group in April. “I will use the military and the police to go out and arrest them, hunt for them. And if they will offer a violent resistance, and thereby placing the lives of the law enforcers and the military whom I would task for a job to do, I will simply say, ‘Kill them all and end the problem.’”
Mr. Duterte promised to kill 100,000 criminals in his first six months in office and dump so many bodies in Manila Bay that the “fish will grow fat.”
The newly elected Philippines president, Rodrigo Duterte, urged a crowd of about 500 people on Thursday to kill drug addicts, according to the Guardian.
"If you know of any addicts, go ahead and kill them yourself, as getting their parents to do it would be too painful," he told people in a Manila slum he was visiting after taking his presidential oath.
"If a drug dealer resists arrest or refuses to be brought to a police station and threatens a citizen with a gun or a knife, "you can kill him," Duterte said in a nationally televised speech in early June. "Shoot him and I'll give you a medal."
MANILA, Philippines - Killing a thousand people in the line of duty is justified.There's already motions to decrease the age of criminal responsibility to 9, (http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/572662/news/nation/incoming-speaker-wants-age-of-criminal-responsibility-lowered-to-9?utm_source=GMANews&utm_medium=Twitter&utm_campaign=GMANewsTwitter) as well, which combines pretty well with the previous notions to turn Philippines into... something pretty bad.
This was the message of President Duterte yesterday to police personnel as he assured them that he has their back in their mission of keeping the public safe.
“Do your duty, and if in the process you kill one thousand persons because you were doing your duty, I will protect you. And if they try to impeach me, I will hurry the process and we will go out of the service together,” Duterte said.
More than 100 suspects have been killed in the seven weeks since Duterte’s election as presidentHe promised tens of thousands, will he be another politician who fails to deliver? (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/10/philippines-nine-drug-suspects-killed-in-wake-of-dutertes-controversial-drug-war)
One other person was arrested on suspicion of drug offences, Galgo said, adding that three pistols and four grenades were found on the dead suspects.Holy shit, Phili gangsters don't buy small
In Manila, police said they found a yet to be identified dead man, his entire head wrapped in tape, on a poorly lit road.How absolutely terrifying
Oh, nice. Ataturk's Turkey is alive. Let's hope it will go smoothly with no bloodshedThat doesn't like it'll be the case:https://twitter.com/WarfareWW (https://twitter.com/WarfareWW). One of the few things that has been consistent is reports of gunfire.
I wonder what was the last straw for some Turkish general(s)? Maybe that pathetic apologizes for shooting down Russian children killer?A few weeks ago a prominent Turkish journalist / former military officer wrote a letter to various international newspapers with an opinion piece which you could call a 'call to arms'. He warned the Turks that Erdogan was arabizing Turkey, and called him out for not being Turkish. (Erdogan has a Georgian father and an arab mother, he has no Turkish blood). He said that islamists like Erdogan are an enemy of Turkish people.
Heres Erdogan giving an announcement on TV... Via facetime!
https://twitter.com/CeylanWrites/status/754065030929317889/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw (https://twitter.com/CeylanWrites/status/754065030929317889/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
Where all this faith in a middle eastern country suddenly coming from?
There are no enough information but looks like this one is a failed attempt. Successful coup would arrest Erdogan by now.
o shit gunfire on the bridge like crazy!
Military helicopters firing into the street (crowd?) in Ankara. (https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/754087041403682816)Or Russian helicopter firing somewhere over Syria somewhere in the past few months
Military helicopters firing into the street (crowd?) in Ankara. (https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/754087041403682816)Or Russian helicopter firing somewhere over Syria somewhere in the past few months
Military helicopters firing into the street (crowd?) in Ankara. (https://twitter.com/Conflicts/status/754087041403682816)Or Russian helicopter firing somewhere over Syria somewhere in the past few months
Seems like in the age of social media, old military coup strategies no longer work. Well, even by those standards, this coup has been especially shitty - no one important has been arrested! WTF Turkey, I thought your military was better than that.
Guess that's what Erdogan's coup-proofing was for.
Report: Police killed in attack on special forces HQ
Posted at 19:14
The state-run Anadolu news agency reports that 17 police officers have been killed in an aerial attack on the Golbasi special operations department in Ankara.
He's only a few km out and is perfectly lined up with the city runway, it's just a landing not a crash.He had better be pretty damn sure that the unit controlling the NATO patriot missiles is not part of the coup
Pretty fucking brave with fighter jets bombing the capital though.
This is how under control the situation is...they are vary VARY dead.Spoiler: serious gore (click to show/hide)
We are not used to it because our media is usually really quick to filter that away from our sensitive eyes. Probably for the better.This is how under control the situation is...Jesus, the gore looks so over the top that it looks like something out a film.Spoiler: serious gore (click to show/hide)
I think that gamble works better when the driver can actually see you, otherwise it's not a gamble, it's more akin to standing in front of a train with a blindfolded operatorThe Turk who tried to stop the tank going 30 with his faceIf we're talking about the same guy (I thought it was a white truck, not a tank? Was it about 1:10 into a webm?), then I have absolutely no sympathy for someone who gambles with their life along 'Hah, they won't dare to actually run over me' lines. Like, mate, you are severely overestimating how important you are to anyone who is not you or your mother.
RIP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO0g09LfbNQSomeone's back on camera there
sounds like fighting at cnn
and ya that video was bad
The crowd outside CNN got eerily quiet after the guy on screen ran away in terror
---
I'm not much for conspiracy theories but I feel this one might be more credible than most. Though ultimately it's hard to know what's really happening through the confusion.
You know, I decided to do some further reading on Erdogan, and the more and more I learn about him the sketchier and more cuntish he seems.That's because he's a wannabe-dictator who wants all the power in the country. I've posted plenty of news of him and his government doing mass oppression against the media and people posting insulting to Erdogan stuff on social networks.
They were probably either tricked into it through controlled opposition or gambling on taking out ErdoganI'm betting on the first; otherwise they would've struck when Erdogan was actually in the country or at least made some attempt to capture or shoot down his flight.
Only the USA and some dictatorships do not respect the "authority" of the ICC, and rightfully so.FTFY
Can we not start another dumb ICC meme?
The USA will one day obey the International Cricket CouncilOnly the USA and some dictatorships do not respect the "authority" of the ICC, and rightfully so.FTFY
The USA will one day obey the International Cricket Council
They'll have to take my baseball bat from my cold, dead hands!
The integrity of the Olympics received one of the most devastating blows in its history on Monday after a state-sponsored doping regime was shown to have effectively sabotaged the Sochi 2014 Winter Games and left Russia’s place at Rio 2016 hanging by a thread.Tbh they'd be saving Russian Olympians from dying in Rio
WADA have just released a full statement following the publication of the McLaren report, after Ben Nichols, the Lead Spokesman for the World Anti-Doping Agency, earlier declared that "there can no longer be presumption of innocence".WADA pls, that's not how this works
The Executive Committee also notes with great disappointment that, today’s Report reveals that, despite all public undertakings that were claimed by the Russian Government, they were so confident in the inability of outsiders to detect what was going on, that they operated in the same manner during the time that WADA’s 2015 Independent Commission (IC) was carrying out its investigation. This conduct shows a total disregard for the international community; and, reinforces the urgent need for true and demonstrable commitment by the Russian authorities for a change of culture.Hahahahaha, the madmen! The absolute madmen! Arrogance is the downfall of man
Martinuzz, you were wrong too. Each Patriot PAC-3 costs 3+ millions dollars. That drone ended up costing up to 8 millions to Israel (and one of the Patriot injured a girl).Don't forget that it also escaped without any apparent damage or loss of functionality. So the cost can potentially be even higher, depending on whenever it decides to go back and troll Israel air defences some more.
Why doesn't Hizbullah by a fleet of trolldrone?Probably because most commonly available drones drop down after a single missile, and fly low enough to be shot with gunfire?
We all laughed when they showcased the superiority of quadcopter based warfare on the battlefield.Reminds me of that amateur drone gladiator thing that got shut down a while back
Who is laughing now?
I'm just imagining Israeli responses to a huge fleet of quad copters that do nothing but fly in circles in restricted airspace.Flak cannons would suddenly feel love again
The trick would be to get the right drones in the right flight patterns that Israel spends more shooting them down than you spend sending them in.Wouldn't work, Israel would get more materiel from USA nullifying resource expenditure, and eventually the IDF would find out whose sending all them bloody drones and pay a visit
Although given track records over there it would immediately escalate into artillery barrages, rocket attacks, suicide bombings, and a minor-yet-bloody invasion again.
Maybe PATRIOT missiles are just bad at hitting slow, low-flying targets.A lesson from GTA: San Andreas, that
I understood some of those words.Maybe PATRIOT missiles are just bad at hitting slow, low-flying targets.A lesson from GTA: San Andreas, thatMichelle and Barbara like their men chubbyjumping the akrport wall and flying the Dodo outside of allowed airspace lets you avoid the air-defence easier than if you "JUMPJET" the Hydra into existence and go off-piste.
Edit: Has anyone mentioned yet Russia being boycotted from sports events for doping? I just looked at Maria Sharapova's case and had a look at the Wikipedia page for what she was taking"for health reasons" : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meldonium .This Meldonium stuff is nothing comparing to the FSB swapping urine samples scandal :D I am hoping that IOC will do the right decision and we will see no Russians in Rio
Scroll down a bit, look at all those Russian and former eastern block flags, obviously the Soviet Union has a chronic heart problem epidemic, there's no other possible explaination.
This Meldonium stuff is nothing comparing to the FSB swapping urine samples scandal :DYeah, the security services are always taking the piss...
I hope the IOC will do the right decision and we sill see no Olympians in RioEdit: Has anyone mentioned yet Russia being boycotted from sports events for doping? I just looked at Maria Sharapova's case and had a look at the Wikipedia page for what she was taking"for health reasons" : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meldonium .This Meldonium stuff is nothing comparing to the FSB swapping urine samples scandal :D I am hoping that IOC will do the right decision and we will see no Russians in Rio
Scroll down a bit, look at all those Russian and former eastern block flags, obviously the Soviet Union has a chronic heart problem epidemic, there's no other possible explaination.
The Turkish embassy to Belgium asked Flanders (which had a large Turkish community) to investigate organizations linked to the Gülen movement.What kinda organizations
I would think that with modern communications and the global spotlight on him, he'd be smart enough to keep the purging to a minimum, and be satisfied with the opportunity for some increased popular support and party unity instead. But these massive purges and an unveiled grab for authority, when it's such an obvious move and exactly what everyone expected out of this, it smells of incompetence. Maybe he thinks he won't get another opportunity.Nah all you need to do is shill like there's no tomorrow
Uh, Erdogan just said not to worry.Suspiciously Specific Denial™
You can totally trust someone who Godwin's themself.The real question is, will this somehow manage to ruin Poland again
Indigi-dumdiddly-nous traitory-waitory terroristinos, neighbour!The Turkish embassy to Belgium asked Flanders (which had a large Turkish community) to investigate organizations linked to the Gülen movement.What kinda organizations
Pretty grim reading about the breakdown of Yugoslavia, how the government police and military said they'd be back... And then all went to hellUh, Erdogan just said not to worry.To quote the film 2012:
When they tell you not to panic, that's when you run!
And, well, why worry about democracy and the rule of law? They're gone already?Democracy just barely made it to the Greekish islands. Rule of law's boat sank and it drowned in the mediterranean sea.
I thought it was latinos mutating? The rhythm is gonna get ya!and we can see how accurate that movie wasDuh. Neutrinos mutate all the time! And when they do act like microwaves, somehow heating up the core without cooking people alive.
I am disappointed that air balloon travel blew upI saw a blimp flying over Brisbane yesterday. Oh shit wrong thread, I'll do a forum search for the south east Queensland aerophile lighter than air transport associated news and discussion thread, damnit martinuzzz, why do you keep posting stuff in the wrong politics threads!
IOC didn't ban Russia from Rio. Love the modern world :D
IOC didn't ban Russia from Rio. Love the modern world :DNot that surprising, given that Trump, candidate for the leader of the #1 country in the world, is being backed by Russian money.
I think the Western world is entering (or has already entered) another Red Scare - all these accusations of being a Putin agent towards inconvenient political movements look and sound very similar to accusations of being a secret communist fellow traveller/useful idiot/whatever from the 1950s. The Cold War is truly back, and so is paranoia.IOC didn't ban Russia from Rio. Love the modern world :DNot that surprising, given that Trump, candidate for the leader of the #1 country in the world, is being backed by Russian money.
our hands are everywhere
You know, I really wish the nations of earth were of the same strength to stop all of this sort of thing. Acting like an asshole to your neighbours when you're not stronger than them is generally not a good idea.
You know, I really wish the nations of earth were of the same strength to stop all of this sort of thing. Acting like an asshole to your neighbours when you're not stronger than them is generally not a good idea.And yet it's still done plenty of times.
I think the Western world is entering (or has already entered) another Red Scare - all these accusations of being a Putin agent towards inconvenient political movements look and sound very similar to accusations of being a secret communist fellow traveller/useful idiot/whatever from the 1950s. The Cold War is truly back, and so is paranoia.
That's the first time I hear Russia being called "impossible". Thanks for praising us, I guess? At least, being able to break up the laws of probability as aI think the Western world is entering (or has already entered) another Red Scare - all these accusations of being a Putin agent towards inconvenient political movements look and sound very similar to accusations of being a secret communist fellow traveller/useful idiot/whatever from the 1950s. The Cold War is truly back, and so is paranoia.
In a way, I guess. But if Europe and NATO stick together I believe it wont take nearly as much time, Russia will once again fall to its own impossibility. This could be a good opportunity to build cooperation and trust within EU. Where Europe really needs to improve is information warfare.
Related video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNybllbrrXY
edit: regarding the video, I bet many now wish we hadn't broken up the 200 T-72s in 1994.
Get that disgusting malformed map out of my sightBut it has an elephant (look at lower left corner) and it has Greenland bigger than Africa! How can you not love this piece of modern art, you heartless STEM person!
I prefer pasteurised Robinson projection, actuallyKavrayskiy VII (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavrayskiy_VII_projection) is superior to all Western imperialist map projections!
I wonder if the US has the balls to 'violate' international free Chinese restricted airspace during the training.This statement is very confus
Another russian chopper Mi-8 was downed in aleppo area. 5 crew, 4 man and one woman dead.Russia is gonna flatten the area (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36939137)
This region is under heavy fighting in late, government forces encircled one of the bigger part of rebel town/areas, and if it falls this will be a huge blow to rebels, and even maybe end the conflict in that part of region. Yesterday a huge rebel offensive leading by al nusra (they change the name recently to Jabhat Fatah al-Sham) and with coordination of ISIS has started to try and lift the siege. Heavy fighting is still ongoing.
Solution: modify Iron Dome to include Iron Drone, low-cost boost-assisted counter drones.
(They could be 'air-to-air' warhead equipped, but I'm thinking that one alternate approach could be to have 'hairy' drones that fly with (or deploy upon proximity, like a retiarius) anchored tangling materials to get caught in enemy-drone props (where they have them) or just catch onto control surfaces and then the resulting tangle of drone/counter-drone falls to earth for possible investigation. I've not yet heard of that idea being used (just a manpad version) but it seems too logical an extension of drone philosophy for nobody else to have thought of it, practicalities and fine-details aside.)
I think the drones we are talking about here are not those small toys/drones that anyone can buy, but this drones:I know. And that prop (I deliberately said 'prop' not 'rotors') looks emminantly entangleable.
Iron Dome is perfectly capable of intercepting drones as it is;At great expense, it has to be said. (And already has been.)
Or y'know throw a warhead with proximity fuse on your fancy drone instead of a net.Not unconsidered.
They could be 'air-to-air' warhead equipped, but(Never mind the more minimal refurbishment costs for reusing the 'interceptor' if it doesn't probably destroy itself in the process.)
[...]
resulting tangle of drone/counter-drone falls to earth for possible investigation.
The entire Russian Paralympic Games team has been banned from participating. (http://www.bbc.com/sport/disability-sport/37002582) Those bloody disabled have been clearly given steroids by Putin himself, no doubt.
"The Russian government has catastrophically failed its Para-athletes. Their medals over morals mentality disgusts me. The complete corruption of the anti-doping system is contrary to the rules and strikes at the very heart of the spirit of Paralympic sport.Collective punishment, however, obviously does not violate the spirit of Paralympic sport.
NATO will not be pleased that their precious hightech anti air measure is outsmarted by Russian drones.
I sure hope anti air laser defense research is progressing well enough.
Over million people on pro Erdogan protests
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An6E_i0vW-A
Erdö also said that if Turks want death penalty, there'll be death penalty.Pretty spooky tbh
It's sad that the international community won't intervene, because at this rate Turkey is going to become a shithole like the rest of the middle east.Let Erdogan continue gathering authoritarian levels of power to himself by abusing democratic principles to excess, or turn him into a wonderful martyr and create a lovely quagmire for us, since Afghanistan and Iraq weren't enough. Or, if you want to look at places without actual boots on the ground, Libya or Egypt. It's not a lovely solution either way, but at the least, I thought we were past the days of Allende.
It's sad that the international community won't intervene, because at this rate Turkey is going to become a shithole like the rest of the middle east.Let Erdogan continue gathering authoritarian levels of power to himself by abusing democratic principles to excess, or turn him into a wonderful martyr and create a lovely quagmire for us, since Afghanistan and Iraq weren't enough. Or, if you want to look at places without actual boots on the ground, Libya or Egypt. It's not a lovely solution either way, but at the least, I thought we were past the days of Allende.
Iron Dome is perfectly capable of intercepting drones as it is;At great expense, it has to be said. (And already has been.)
Honestly I don't have a clue what the best approach would be, but the repercussions for doing nothing in Turkey appear horrific.
NATO should probably be kicking Turkey out if this keeps up, I thinkbut muh Bosphorus straights
Problem is that Erdy has popular support. We're looking at a country democratically abandoning democracy. Assassinating the dude ain't gonna do shit, another fucker will pop right up, and probably drive the populace further into the Anti-West corner.
Arm more Kurds. Make a deal with the UK to take up the millions of ensuing Turkish refugees, in exchange for visa free travel to the EU for UK citizens.This is where I announce a ROFL, yes?
Constantinople is rightful Greek clayFun fact: if we actually did turn Istanbul over to Greece, Greeks would become a minority in their own country. ^_^
Constantinople is rightful Greek clayFun fact: if we actually did turn Istanbul over to Greece, Greeks would become a minority in their own country. ^_^
((Solution: Make it Russian clay - the dream of Tsars shall finally be fulfilled.))
Meanwhile, Erdogan went to meet with Putin to "start a new chapter in Turkish - Russian relations". Putin welcomed him with "the relations between Russia and Turkey are fully restored to what they were before, and will even become better than ever".Constantinople is rightful Greek clayFun fact: if we actually did turn Istanbul over to Greece, Greeks would become a minority in their own country. ^_^
((Solution: Make it Russian clay - the dream of Tsars shall finally be fulfilled.))
Unfortunately their bro love looks like sadism
I just got chills.Turkey has a decent democratic tradition and I reckon they're not too far gone just yet. So they might go back to normal if Erdogan is assassinated. And what's the point of having CIA if you're not gonna assassinate dictators you don't like?Quote from: Lords and Ladies, by Terry PratchettShoot the dictator and prevent the war? But the dictator is merely the tip of the whole festering boil of social pus from which dictators emerge; shoot one, and there’ll be another one along in a minute. Shoot him too? Why not shoot everyone and invade Poland? In fifty years’, thirty years’, ten years’ time the world will be very nearly back on its old course.
Erdogan is playing with fire there. He seems kinda naive for a politician (what with shooting down that jet and all the posturing), while Putin is as cunning as they come and will exploit Erdogan in ways we can't even imagine.Meanwhile, Erdogan went to meet with Putin to "start a new chapter in Turkish - Russian relations". Putin welcomed him with "the relations between Russia and Turkey are fully restored to what they were before, and will even become better than ever".Constantinople is rightful Greek clayFun fact: if we actually did turn Istanbul over to Greece, Greeks would become a minority in their own country. ^_^
((Solution: Make it Russian clay - the dream of Tsars shall finally be fulfilled.))
How adorable, the autocrat bro love.
Erdogan is playing with fire there. He seems kinda naive for a politician (what with shooting down that jet and all the posturing), while Putin is as cunning as they come and will exploit Erdogan in ways we can't even imagine.Meanwhile, Erdogan went to meet with Putin to "start a new chapter in Turkish - Russian relations". Putin welcomed him with "the relations between Russia and Turkey are fully restored to what they were before, and will even become better than ever".Constantinople is rightful Greek clayFun fact: if we actually did turn Istanbul over to Greece, Greeks would become a minority in their own country. ^_^
((Solution: Make it Russian clay - the dream of Tsars shall finally be fulfilled.))
How adorable, the autocrat bro love.
Meanwhile, the Russian intelligence agency FSB reports that they have thwarted an attack by the Ukraine on Crimea. According to them, Ukrainian special forces had infiltrated the area in an attempt to take out important infrastructure.
One FSB member was killed during the arrest of a first group of 'saboteurs'.
On sunday night, a second attempt was launched by Ukrainian special forces, this time supported by armoured vehicles.
According to the FSB, this attack was also pushed back, but one Russian soldier was killed in a 'massive firefight'.
A spokesman for the Ukraine intelligence agency says the story is completely untrue, and a false flag.
https://www.rt.com/news/355385-fsb-ukraine-terrorist-attacks/
My guess would be that, in a traditionally Russian manner, his curator has told him to say the exact opposite of truth, and that Russia does actually plan to invade Ukraine even more. It would at least explain why Russia has recently started to create new tank armies on the Ukraine's border.
Putin called the meeting meaningless "Norman Quartet"fuk
Russian President Vladimir Putin considers pointless meeting leaders of "Norman Quartet" (Russia, Ukraine, Germany, France) against saboteurs detained Ukrainian in Crimea.
Meanwhile, the Russian intelligence agency FSB reports that they have thwarted an attack by the Ukraine on Crimea. According to them, Ukrainian special forces had infiltrated the area in an attempt to take out important infrastructure.Things are very, very fishy.
One FSB member was killed during the arrest of a first group of 'saboteurs'.
On sunday night, a second attempt was launched by Ukrainian special forces, this time supported by armoured vehicles.
According to the FSB, this attack was also pushed back, but one Russian soldier was killed in a 'massive firefight'.
A spokesman for the Ukraine intelligence agency says the story is completely untrue, and a false flag.
https://www.rt.com/news/355385-fsb-ukraine-terrorist-attacks/
Turkey and Russia will establish a joint military, intelligence and diplomacy mechanism, Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said Wednesday.That was a fast heel-face turn. From a "hated enemy who violated our border and is supporting our sworn opponent, Assad", to a "our best friend, we even have a joint defense plan agreement in the works", within just two-three months. This shows just how shallow these "deep chasms" can turn out in reality *looks in direction of Ukraine*.
The official statement from the Turkish government: "because Turkey did not get the support it expected from it's NATO allies after the coup attempt, it's nothing more than logical that Turkey finds other allies to defend the nation and combat terrorism."What did they expect, the NATO to give in to their every demand and to assist in murdering their internal opposition abroad?
Oh Lordy loo.
I'm surprised Putin's not managed to get himself assassinated yet, given how many people he seems to be pissing off over the course of his career.
Something will happen soon that has not happened for a long time, and it'll set a major precedent. It's fucking scary is what it feels like. Does anyone know if they said when all this shit started if we had weapons, troops, or investments in Ukraine at the time?Meanwhile, the Russian intelligence agency FSB reports that they have thwarted an attack by the Ukraine on Crimea. According to them, Ukrainian special forces had infiltrated the area in an attempt to take out important infrastructure.Things are very, very fishy.
One FSB member was killed during the arrest of a first group of 'saboteurs'.
On sunday night, a second attempt was launched by Ukrainian special forces, this time supported by armoured vehicles.
According to the FSB, this attack was also pushed back, but one Russian soldier was killed in a 'massive firefight'.
A spokesman for the Ukraine intelligence agency says the story is completely untrue, and a false flag.
https://www.rt.com/news/355385-fsb-ukraine-terrorist-attacks/
First rumours of a shoot-out at the Perekop Isthmus appeared on social media in the morning of the 7th of August. Both Russian and Ukrainian media reacted with a blackout - Russia's Life News wrote about 'unconfirmed reports of shooting at the border near Armyansk', but quickly withdrew the story. The border checkpoints were closed for a while, and the Russian military moved additional forces into Armyansk, triggering Ukrainian media's "Russia's about to invade Ukraine!1!" reflexes yet again. Initial reports claimed a group of armed criminals tried to cross the border and were thwarted by Russian army forces. Then, things got interesting: the local police received orders to be on the lookout for several wanted individuals on the run that were allegedly involved in the incident - 4-5 men, wearing camouflage uniforms with Russian army chevrons (http://www.politnavigator.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/08081601.jpg).Spoiler: very unconfirmed rumours from questionable sources (click to show/hide)
After several days of silence, Russia's FSB has acknowledged the incident only now, and they blame Ukrainian security forces. Something is afoot.
I thought Switzerland was in the EU? Though I guess understandable given their intent in trying to be as neutral as possible.They're a non-member that's negotiated treaties with the EU, iirc.
They're a non-member that's negotiated treaties with the EU, iirc.You are correct sir
That would translate to saying to the UK they can join the free trade zone, but only if they give up speaking english and start speaking french only.Sacré bleu! C'est inconceivable!! Mon aéroglisseur est plein d'anguilles!!! Bof...
You guys still have elections?There are more than a dozen parties running, actually. One communist party (KPRF), two liberal ones (PARNAS and Yabloko), one generic party of power (United Russia), one opportunistic-nationalistic party (LDPD), some pro-pensioner people (Spravedlivaya Rossiya), and also a couple of smaller and completely new parties that I haven't heard about before, including
I was kidding, you guys ::)Heh. But when you hear that line thrown around often enough completely unironically, you start taking it at face value. ^_^
one opportunistic-nationalistic party (LDPD)Even this description is generous. They do anything crazy recently? The newest incident is Z-Man demanding Russia nuke the Bosporus to drown Istanbul with a tidal wave, but that was in 2015.
I was kidding, you guys ::)Hey, at least I learned, in the process of Googling information on parties in Russia, that there are apparently no less than five different liberal parties in Russia that are running for elections this year! And they all hate each other's guts so much that they can't even unite together in the face of the Ultimate Evil Dictator (i.e. Putin).
Are the National Bolsheviks still a thing? Their flag should be the page image for Poe's Law on ATT.Yes, but they're banned. They're not running for this election, thank God for that.
Are the National Bolsheviks still a thing? Their flag should be the page image for Poe's Law on ATT.:o ??? ::) :P :-X
Might be banned in just as many countries by pro-communist laws.Are the National Bolsheviks still a thing? Their flag should be the page image for Poe's Law on ATT.:o ??? ::) :P :-X
[Warning: flag image may be restricted in some countries by anti-communist laws.]
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/National_Bolshevik_Party.svg (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/National_Bolshevik_Party.svg)
Yes, Russia still has elections. They're even mostly fair; irregularities tend to be more along the lines of disproportionate media access for preferred candidates and strict candidate registration requirements that inhibit competitors than actual ballot-stuffing. That's one of the most depressing things about his present foreign policies; Putin, and to a slightly lesser degree his party as a whole, really does have a popular mandate in the eyes of people who view him as giving them their pride back and, for those who haven't forgotten Yeltsin and the 1990s, putting food on their plates and "putting the oligarchs in their place". Domestically, his foreign adventurism is a selling point, not a weakness.
Yes, Russia still has elections. They're even mostly fair; irregularities tend to be more along the lines of disproportionate media access for preferred candidates and strict candidate registration requirements that inhibit competitors than actual ballot-stuffing. That's one of the most depressing things about his present foreign policies; Putin, and to a slightly lesser degree his party as a whole, really does have a popular mandate in the eyes of people who view him as giving them their pride back and, for those who haven't forgotten Yeltsin and the 1990s, putting food on their plates and "putting the oligarchs in their place". Domestically, his foreign adventurism is a selling point, not a weakness.
And all of them get free ads and debate hours! IIRC, the debates are actually mandatory this time, and they're going to be carried out very often. I can only imagine the decibel of yells that will be getting thrown over there, with the amount of "communist/nationalist vs liberal" match-ups that will inevitably come up.
We intend to return Russia to its historical course of development, which is inextricably linked with European civilization, with its democratic values, with its respect for the people, with their rights, their freedom and their choices.Also, print volume is 3 200 000, printed in 22 August 2016, in St. Petersburg. Such oppression of anti-government media, wow.
It's a single real path that leads to both material and moral well-being for the people, and all other "special and sovereign" vacillations in clips of false patriotism - is a path which doesn't exist. More and more people in Russia understand this. And they should have their own party in Duma!
Wow, that's the most long-winded nothing I've ever read. Amazing!:-\
Correction: Blasphemy is a victimless crime.There might be a few divine entities who disagree with you. :P
The assertion of criminality arises from the desire to codify right and wrong behaviors (both morally and pragmatically). Something that is not wrong and is not criminality in this sense cannot be truly made crime by the will of the state. It is rather the state that is criminal in these circumstances.Yes, because being respectful to someone's religious beliefs is equivalent to rape.
To make the will of legislators the be-all-end-all of criminality is just a secular version of divine command theory. You wouldn't respond like that if, for example, a country made it illegal to not rape people.
Again, I refer to my bacon sandwich hypothetical. It's not the act itself that's criminal, but the intent behind it. Ruslan Sokolovsky deliberately set out to offend Russian Christians by his actions inside their place of worship. What's next? If he dropped his pants and took a dump on the floor, would you say that he shouldn't be punished because pooping isn't a crime?Again, though, it's not equivalent. It's not criminal, in this case; being a nuisance isn't a crime unless you're a public nuisance. Freedom of speech means freedom to be annoying. But if it's actually harassment, or trying to provoke a reaction, and you get one, you don't really get to whine about it.
There's a time and place for certain acts, and the inside of a church is definitely different to other public places. If you can't show respect for other people's belief, don't go inside.
If Zeus is offended by my words, may he smite me with his lightning. ;)Correction: Blasphemy is a victimless crime.There might be a few divine entities who disagree with you. :P
I think if it was a ten year old child goofing around with his mom's mobile phone, nobody would blink an eye. The act itself isn't criminal, but that's not what's at issue. Ruslan Sokolovsky is a self-professed athiest who decided when he woke up that day to go down to the church and film himself catching pokemon. Why?Again, I refer to my bacon sandwich hypothetical. It's not the act itself that's criminal, but the intent behind it. Ruslan Sokolovsky deliberately set out to offend Russian Christians by his actions inside their place of worship. What's next? If he dropped his pants and took a dump on the floor, would you say that he shouldn't be punished because pooping isn't a crime?Again, though, it's not equivalent. It's not criminal, in this case; being a nuisance isn't a crime unless you're a public nuisance. Freedom of speech means freedom to be annoying. But if it's actually harassment, or trying to provoke a reaction, and you get one, you don't really get to whine about it.
There's a time and place for certain acts, and the inside of a church is definitely different to other public places. If you can't show respect for other people's belief, don't go inside.
Yes, because being respectful to someone's religious beliefs is equivalent to rape.The purpose of this hyperbole is to highlight the silliness of responding "the state says it's illegal therefore it's crime", when that is clearly not how anybody conceives of criminality. It's the kind of argument exclusively used in response to situations where you want to use the opportunity of an oppressive law that happens to agree with your stance.
It is rude and could be deemed harassment to do something like this in a church when you quite obviously know it's not welcome. Churches are not, in fact, publicly owned, as far as I am aware, for instance.It may be rude (he didn't so much as speak to anybody), it's definitely not harassment. You can't harass a church, you can only harass a person. You can harass many people at once, such as by running around an office building screaming racial obscenities at the employees, but you're not harassing the company. Harassment has an inherently personal and disruptive element that this clearly does not fulfill.
Five years for a crime of this nature is a bit much. A week or so might be appropriate to say 'hey seriously knock it off dickhead', or a fine or something.Highlighting the ridiculous actions of the Russian state and church collaboration (the whole point was to prove nobody would actually object to him playing Pokemon Go in person, only after the fact) = being a dickhead, got it.
But if you are trying to say that criminality arises from morality, then we run into the issue of morality being highly subjective, and subjective criminal law is...unstable, to say the least.Welcome to all criminal law? I also said it arises from pragmatic concerns, to account for the possible nonexistence of morality and more civil laws, but all matters related to human concerns are inherently subjective. Again, you are only thinking of the things you disagree with and dismissing the ones you do agree with. "Torturing criminals to death is wrong" is no more subjective than "letting your plants overwhelm your neighbor's yard is wrong". Subjectivity is not weakness.
Again, I refer to my bacon sandwich hypothetical. It's not the act itself that's criminal, but the intent behind it.Intent does not matter in crime. It is at most a mitigating or aggravating factor. If I don't intend to kill you and only to wound you, but I shoot you with an assault rifle because I'm an idiot who doesn't know how deadly guns are, and you miraculously survive that, the charge is attempted murder. If you die, it's murder. The intention is irrelevant; the action is what matters.
Ruslan Sokolovsky deliberately set out to offend Russian Christians by his actions inside their place of worship.Even if he did, so fucking what? Maybe they should suck it up. The whole point of this was to prove that the nature of their offense stems from a dreamland conception of sanctity that they can't even recognize unless he out and shows them a video of it being "violated" even when he was surrounded by other people at the time.
There's a time and place for certain acts, and the inside of a church is definitely different to other public places. If you can't show respect for other people's belief, don't go inside.Respect of course meaning, "do what I say you must do".
Freedom of speech means freedom to be annoying. But if it's actually harassment, or trying to provoke a reaction, and you get one, you don't really get to whine about it.
It's pretty obvious he wanted to show that: (a) he enjoys catching pokemon and (b) he doesn't respect churches. He could have just made a Youtube video where he talks about how much he likes one set of fictional characters and dislikes another, but instead he went to the effort of going inside their house and deliberately thumbing his nose at them. That crosses the line between freedom of speech and setting out to deliberately offend a specific religious group.In other words, neither of you think people should have freedom of speech. FoS is inherently about speech deemed offensive by others. That's literally the only thing it can be about. Do you think this was codified in response to people being concerned that backing up the dominant forces of society or telling people what the powerful want them to hear would get them in trouble? In that case, every society to ever exist has freedom of speech. You're only protecting freedom of speech when you protect things you disagree with, or think are massively offensive, or whip people up into mobs demanding "reaction".
The purpose of this hyperbole is to highlight the silliness of responding "the state says it's illegal therefore it's crime", when that is clearly not how anybody conceives of criminality. It's the kind of argument exclusively used in response to situations where you want to use the opportunity of an oppressive law that happens to agree with your stance.
It may be rude (he didn't so much as speak to anybody), it's definitely not harassment. You can't harass a church, you can only harass a person. You can harass many people at once, such as by running around an office building screaming racial obscenities at the employees, but you're not harassing the company. Harassment has an inherently personal and disruptive element that this clearly does not fulfill.I dunno about that, you can be sued for corporate harassment if you bother them about stuff too often if it's seen as being without legitimate cause. But harassment may be the wrong word. Not sure what I'm thinking of, here.
Highlighting the ridiculous actions of the Russian state and church collaboration (the whole point was to prove nobody would actually object to him playing Pokemon Go in person, only after the fact) = being a dickhead, got it.Yeah, putting it in a way that's favorable sure does make it easy to make it look like you're obviously right, doesn't it? And yeah, the whole point of his sort of stuff is to be a dick to people in power, afaict.
Welcome to all criminal law? I also said it arises from pragmatic concerns, to account for the possible nonexistence of morality and more civil laws, but all matters related to human concerns are inherently subjective. Again, you are only thinking of the things you disagree with and dismissing the ones you do agree with. "Torturing criminals to death is wrong" is no more subjective than "letting your plants overwhelm your neighbor's yard is wrong". Subjectivity is not weakness.How so? I never mentioned either of those things. I was pointing out that saying 'it's not morally wrong (to me) so it can't be criminal' doesn't work as an argument here. Subjectivity is weakness in terms of systems that have to apply to millions of people with their own subjective views, because it means there's little effective means of resolving it to everyone's satisfaction. It may be irresolvable, but it is still a weakness.
In other words, I do, in fact, believe in freedom of speech. Full stop. But society also agrees that certain types of speech are not allowed. Like hate speech. This is not hate speech. Harassment is also not allowed. But my specific point was about backlash from the church. If you're trying to get someone angry, and they get angry, and you ask 'U mad, bro?', you're being a troll. And yeah, Freedom of Speech protects trolls. My whole purpose here was to defend the basic principle of 'this guy was a dick but he doesn't deserve to go to prison'. Apologies if the Devil's Advocate in me made that unclear.Freedom of speech means freedom to be annoying. But if it's actually harassment, or trying to provoke a reaction, and you get one, you don't really get to whine about it.In other words, neither of you think people should have freedom of speech. FoS is inherently about speech deemed offensive by others. That's literally the only thing it can be about. Do you think this was codified in response to people being concerned that backing up the dominant forces of society or telling people what the powerful want them to hear would get them in trouble? In that case, every society to ever exist has freedom of speech. You're only protecting freedom of speech when you protect things you disagree with, or think are massively offensive, or whip people up into mobs demanding "reaction".
Otherwise, you're "protecting" something that needs no protection, because it is already approved of by society.
Thank god the legal precedent in America doesn't see criticism of religion that way, I'd spend my whole fucking life in prison for the things I've said on the internet alone.
I don't think the Bible says it's blasphemy or even an insult to catch a Pokemon in a church.It's consorting with Demons, you see
<reads bible> .. nope. not a single mention of Pokemon in there.
-snip-
And I disagree completely. Pussy Riot is much more awesome. They were in the Netherlands this summer, participating in a motorcross event in a pink tank, in support of Amnesty Interntional's fight for Ilja Dadin.But girls from Pussy Riot got two years. This guy is risking five!
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/boulevard/entertainment/pussy-riot-actief-op-zwarte-cross (http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/boulevard/entertainment/pussy-riot-actief-op-zwarte-cross)
A few of them are too busy suing each other for claiming to benthd One True God, all the rest are in industrial tribunals with the their union reps trying to bash out awkward demarkation issues...Correction: Blasphemy is a victimless crime.There might be a few divine entities who disagree with you. :P
I think this argument was started by someone pointing out the ridiculousness of a government that banned religion for 80 years giving someone a 5 year prison sentence for minor disrespect to a place of worship only 25 years later.When it's not actually the same government, it makes sense. France has went from "we hate monarchy and kill nobles dead >:(" to "we love monarchy please go back nobles :D" in 25 years somewhere around the Napoleonic era.
I think this argument was started by someone pointing out the ridiculousness of a government that banned religion for 80 years giving someone a 5 year prison sentence for minor disrespect to a place of worship only 25 years later.When it's not actually the same government, it makes sense. France has went from "we hate monarchy and kill nobles dead >:(" to "we love monarchy please go back nobles :D" in 25 years somewhere around the Napoleonic era.
Besides, Communists did not ban religion. It was just looked down upon as a sign of mental weakness and/or deficiency. Also, Marxism-Leninism was basically a religion on its own right ("the teachings of Lenin are all-powerful because they are right!"), and people were getting serious prison sentences for "minor disrespect" towards it, too.
Which was stupid back then and it's still stupid now. Hopefully this bullshit will end at some point.
All other polling agencies are state controlled. None of those have shown any decrease in UR's popularity.
Russia's last, and only independent public survey agency, Levada, has been placed on the list of 'foreign agents' and 'potential traitor', since it released a poll last week that showed Putin's United Russia party to drop from 39% to 31% popularity. In concreto this means that the polling agency is no longer allowed to hold or publish polls.
Levada was founded in 1988 per request of Michael Gorbatsjov, to represent the opinion of the common people.
All other polling agencies are state controlled. None of those have shown any decrease in UR's popularity.
Russia's last, and only independent public survey agency, Levada, has been placed on the list of 'foreign agents' and 'potential traitor', since it released a poll last week that showed Putin's United Russia party to drop from 39% to 31% popularity. In concreto this means that the polling agency is no longer allowed to hold or publish polls.But, but... Sergarr said that Russian elections are superliberal... I am confused
Levada was founded in 1988 per request of Michael Gorbatsjov, to represent the opinion of the common people.
All other polling agencies are state controlled. None of those have shown any decrease in UR's popularity.
Russia's last, and only independent public survey agency, Levada, has been placed on the list of 'foreign agents' and 'potential traitor', since it released a poll last week that showed Putin's United Russia party to drop from 39% to 31% popularity. In concreto this means that the polling agency is no longer allowed to hold or publish polls.But, but... Sergarr said that Russian elections are superliberal... I am confused
Levada was founded in 1988 per request of Michael Gorbatsjov, to represent the opinion of the common people.
All other polling agencies are state controlled. None of those have shown any decrease in UR's popularity.
No worries, soon the foreign degeneracy will be replaced with upstanding, patriotic Russian pornography. Only genetically-verified Russian breasts will be permitted for the good of the people and population growth. All involved will receive Vladimir Putin's Seal of Approval for service to the state.If I became Prime Minister, I would create a new post of office that would deal with pornography's increasing role of social engineering upon the populace, in addition to regulating intellectual properties and maintaining health and safety regulatory enforcement in the industry
Minister of Pornography: a post where you can dump your party rivals, safe in the knowledge they will fail any leadership bid put to party members."It was then that the Minister of Pornography Neil Guerrero realized he could blackmail every single Minister in office into doing what he wanted by threatening to release their internet search history. All except Gavin, who has no shame."
It appears that the United Russia (the party of our Evil Overlord, Putin) has less than 50% (about 45%, according to very preliminary (10% of votes counted) results) of total votes, which makes it theoretically possible to be blocked in parliament by a coalition of other parties.
However, the four current runner ups are nationalists (LDPR) with 18%, communists (KPRF) with 17%, "modernized socialists" (Just Russia) with 6% and more communists ("Communists of Russia") with 2.9%, with none of the 5 liberal/democratic parties getting even close to 5%.
Based on this, here are my words:
1) This is why you don't go all "purity politics" - by splitting the vote, they ensured their complete failure.
2) Currently existing opposition to Putin in Russia is mostly based in nationalism and communism, which is basically equivalent to nationalism in its current form.
Of course, the results may change as more votes are counted, but the overall picture will most likely stay the same.
One of the campaign slogans I saw in the previous month was "Stop humiliating Russians!" in big letters painted on a side of a bus. Seems pretty nationalistic to me.
Excuse me, comrade Sergarr, but why LDPR is nationalist party?
One of the campaign slogans I saw in the previous month was "Stop humiliating Russians!" in big letters painted on a side of a bus. Seems pretty nationalistic to me.
Excuse me, comrade Sergarr, but why LDPR is nationalist party?
We are talking about a party lead by a man who has openly called for using nukes to create tsunamis that will destroy Turkey, mass deportation of Chechens, and literally copying Donald Trump's wall.And he got 18% of votes. Khe. Khe. (theoretically, because in Russia they can write any kind of results)
And that's just recently!
It appears that the United Russia (the party of our Evil Overlord, Putin) has less than 50% (about 45%, according to very preliminary (10% of votes counted) results) of total votes, which makes it theoretically possible to be blocked in parliament by a coalition of other parties.Well, United Russia got 45% of half of parliament. Another half comes from majoritarian election and proportions will be very different.
"Plus the four of you using Tor, i2p, and incognito browsing to keep uploading our homegrown porn back to the rest of the internet, god bless you all."Minister of Pornography: a post where you can dump your party rivals, safe in the knowledge they will fail any leadership bid put to party members."It was then that the Minister of Pornography Neil Guerrero realized he could blackmail every single Minister in office into doing what he wanted by threatening to release their internet search history. All except Gavin, who has no shame."
We are talking about a party lead by a man who has openly called for using nukes to create tsunamis that will destroy Turkey, mass deportation of Chechens, and literally copying Donald Trump's wall.
And that's just recently!
Ah, so that's where ol' Cleggy went!We are talking about a party lead by a man who has openly called for using nukes to create tsunamis that will destroy Turkey, mass deportation of Chechens, and literally copying Donald Trump's wall.
And that's just recently!
However, he calls his party liberal-democratical.
As disturbing as Putin is, the LDPR growing in popularity looks worse, since they appear to be outright mustache-twirlingly fascist.It's better to describe them as very populist. Since fascism is currently pretty popular, that's what they appear to be.
I'm also not sure how Russia's nature reserve of communists would do at the helm.Their leader has said that it would be better for Russia if the pro-USSR military coup in 1991 (which, thankfully due to the sanity of contemporary USSR military, only killed 3 people) succeeded, during the 25th anniversary of said coup, so very, very shitty.
The only significant sane party looks like it would be CP, but it's always hard to tell as an outsider looking in.Well, yeah, I guess. I haven't heard anything bad about them. Though, not anything good, either. They're kind of small. The party's leader, Mironov, is also not in the Official List of Alternatives to Putin (https://vmestoputina.ru/candidates/) (which, btw, all suck in various ways, according to surprisingly non-trolling comments), which means that our Big Opposition figure sitting in the West, Khodorkovsky, does not support him for President.
Seeing such control of the electoral system is kinda awe-inspiring. Thanks god I cannot imagine Trump being half as competent.It is not like Putin had that strong established tradition to break for achieving this control.
As disturbing as Putin is, the LDPR growing in popularity looks worse, since they appear to be outright mustache-twirlingly fascist. I'm also not sure how Russia's nature reserve of communists would do at the helm. The only significant sane party looks like it would be CP, but it's always hard to tell as an outsider looking in.We are talking about ~48% turnout elections here. This is after frauds like this (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/russian-elections-vladimir-putin-united-russia-victory-win-results-latest-a7315751.html) one.
48% is a fairly average turnout by standards of parliamentary elections in presidential democracies. USA, the figurative gold standard of such countries, has about 42%. (http://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-122.html)As disturbing as Putin is, the LDPR growing in popularity looks worse, since they appear to be outright mustache-twirlingly fascist. I'm also not sure how Russia's nature reserve of communists would do at the helm. The only significant sane party looks like it would be CP, but it's always hard to tell as an outsider looking in.We are talking about ~48% turnout elections here. This is after frauds like this (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/russian-elections-vladimir-putin-united-russia-victory-win-results-latest-a7315751.html) one.
In Moscow there are ~35% turnout.
http://www.politico.eu/article/russias-election-free-sausages-and-fraud-allegations-parliament-vote/
Putin, just grab a crown (or maybe make a new one) and declare yourself Russian Tsar already. Oh wait, weren't you part of a party which got it's start by overthrowing another Tsar?
http://www.politico.eu/article/russias-election-free-sausages-and-fraud-allegations-parliament-vote/
Putin, just grab a crown (or maybe make a new one) and declare yourself Russian Tsar already. Oh wait, weren't you part of a party which got it's start by overthrowing another Tsar?
Lol from all the thing they could talk and complain about the problems with russia elections, the thing they said and what makes this elections a fraud is low number of people voting, and obvious on purple putting the election after the spring break so there are low number of voters. OMG how horrible. What a joke of the article.
What period of the year has no holidays
Put Election Day there, as a holiday
Tadah
Soviet Russia 2: Now includes 50% more airstrikes in 100% more proxy wars*.*100% accuracy, due to new russian technology that is better than western jew-shill, friend
*Percentages are accurate +/-175%.
http://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-resurrects-the-kgb-moscow-security/They are going back in time. from 1980s to 1970 to Stalin to 1917. I would enjoy the show but Russia is little to close to my home.
It's like Soviet Russia never went away and it kind of sounds like it'll be worse than it's previous incarnation.
Does Elizabeth have any cousins that can become the new Tsar of Russia if they go a bit further back in history?http://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-resurrects-the-kgb-moscow-security/ (http://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-resurrects-the-kgb-moscow-security/)They are going back in time. from 1980s to 1970 to Stalin to 1917. I would enjoy the show but Russia is little to close to my home.
It's like Soviet Russia never went away and it kind of sounds like it'll be worse than it's previous incarnation.
http://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-resurrects-the-kgb-moscow-security/Well fuck.
It's like Soviet Russia never went away and it kind of sounds like it'll be worse than it's previous incarnation.
http://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-resurrects-the-kgb-moscow-security/
It's like Soviet Russia never went away and it kind of sounds like it'll be worse than it's previous incarnation.
http://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-resurrects-the-kgb-moscow-security/Well fuck.
It's like Soviet Russia never went away and it kind of sounds like it'll be worse than it's previous incarnation.
I remember watching something that talked about how if we can just go for a century without a major war, we'll probably have pulled off large-scale peace and shit.
Stop pushing towards WW3, Putin, I want to believe it doesn't have to be inevitable
...So, US is more likely to start WW3...while Russia takes over Crimea, has invaded Georgia essentially specifically for territorial gains, and the US is pulling out of the middle east
Sounds legit.
After all, there have never been war crimes under Putin. Certainly not.Those were all domestic citizens, you can't commit warcrimes against traitors
"A batalion [sic] would kill maybe 15 to 20 [civilians] a day. With 4 batalions in the brigade that would be maybe 40 to 50 a day or 1200 to 1500 a month, easy. If I am only 10% right, and believe me it's lots more, then I am trying to tell you about 120-150 murders, or a My Lay [sic] each month for over a year."
First of all, this "large-scale peace" is impossible as long as Africa and Middle East exist. They won't be peaceful, ever. It'd take a massive series of genocides to make them peaceful.http://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-resurrects-the-kgb-moscow-security/Well fuck.
It's like Soviet Russia never went away and it kind of sounds like it'll be worse than it's previous incarnation.
I remember watching something that talked about how if we can just go for a century without a major war, we'll probably have pulled off large-scale peace and shit.
Stop pushing towards WW3, Putin, I want to believe it doesn't have to be inevitable
...So, US is more likely to start WW3...while Russia takes over Crimea, has invaded Georgia essentially specifically for territorial gains, and the US is pulling out of the middle eastI'm looking on a map and, as hard as I look, I don't see Russian territorial gains in Georgia that weren't de-facto already there before that "invasion".
Sounds legit.
After all, there have never been war crimes under Putin. Certainly not.Those were all domestic citizens, you can't commit warcrimes against traitors
Well, my current pessimistic expectations are that, within the next year or two, we're going to have direct clashes between Syrian government forces & Russian air support vs FSA & USA spec ops with Coalition air support, which will quite probably result in a declaration and an attempt to enforce a no-fly zone over the entirety of Syria, which is almost immediately followed by a direct confrontation between Russian and Coalition air forces, potentially starting off a conventional phase of a WW3.
As for the My Lai massacre, that is presented as a "one off" but there's good evidence it was part of a widespread thing that was tacitly approved of by senior command as a way of destabilizing the rebellion by attacking civilians.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/one-my-lai-a-month_b_6037482
"One My Lai a month" sounds pretty bad by itself. That's the equivalent of 12 My Lai massacres a year! And we only hear about one of them! But then you read the original statement by the soldier who leaked it:Quote"A batalion [sic] would kill maybe 15 to 20 [civilians] a day. With 4 batalions in the brigade that would be maybe 40 to 50 a day or 1200 to 1500 a month, easy. If I am only 10% right, and believe me it's lots more, then I am trying to tell you about 120-150 murders, or a My Lay [sic] each month for over a year."
So "one My Lai a month" is per-brigade and assumes 10% active time. There were 11 active divisions in Vietnam, and divisions are generally 3+ brigades. Assuming 150 civilian murders a day by US troops in Vietnam at the peak is no stretch of the imagination.
Mass civilian casualties are the consequence of all forms of warfare. We in the modern era simply believe we should be exempt from this, because we're conceited.Rather, because we've come to think of death in general as something to be avoided rather than a notional fact of life, except where it is to be deliberately and specifically targeted. Death as an incidental side-effect is viewed as immoral from a moral perspective, or from a pragmatic one, wasteful. It may be a conceit, but I do not believe it a matter of being conceited to hold such an ideal.
Rather, because we've come to think of death in general as something to be avoided rather than a notional fact of life, except where it is to be deliberately and specifically targeted. Death as an incidental side-effect is viewed as immoral from a moral perspective, or from a pragmatic one, wasteful. It may be a conceit, but I do not believe it a matter of being conceited to hold such an ideal.Though it does get rather annoying when you deal with coddled adults who don't have any comprehension of death and the certainty in which death comes for them
I'm looking on a map and, as hard as I look, I don't see Russian territorial gains in Georgia that weren't de-facto already there before that "invasion".
Mass civilian casualties are the consequence of all forms of warfare. We in the modern era simply believe we should be exempt from this, because we're conceited.Not ceremonial warfare. Flower wars had some very specific rules, as does Football, MMA and Rugby.
but pacifists are war enablers because they defund militaries of progressive countries and open them to attacks from barbaric onesI know people who oppose fighting ISIS because killing is bad
Well, my current pessimistic expectations are that, within the next year or two, we're going to have direct clashes between Syrian government forces & Russian air support vs FSA & USA spec ops with Coalition air support, which will quite probably result in a declaration and an attempt to enforce a no-fly zone over the entirety of Syria, which is almost immediately followed by a direct confrontation between Russian and Coalition air forces, potentially starting off a conventional phase of a WW3.
Syria isn't important enough, a war between Russia and the US could only start under those circumstances if both sides wanted it (or one side really wanted it). Even if the US military shot down a Russian plane in broad daylight, one of the governments would need to be willing to declare war for anything to come of it, and I think that's extremely unlikely.
Sticking to the anti-Assad stance is more a matter of embarrassment for the US, and in that respect Russia is on track to inflict a minor humiliation out of this. Assad just happened to be on the US government's shitlist for harboring anti-Israel terrorists, him gassing civilians and committing other atrocities would be forgotten very quickly if he does end up pulling through this.
Putin could not afford an escalation with the USA with NATO troops on his border, there is only so much you can do before nuclear is the optionWell, Russian strategy relies on first-strike nuclear being an option only in case of overwhelming conventional defeat with imminent major territorial losses (i.e. Koenigsberg gets occupied by polacks), and there's quite a lot of hot military-on-military action possible to do before that.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
"Everyone makes mistakes," FARC commander Iván Márquez told relatives of the victims.
the idiots rejected it!I won't call them idiots, but I do regret that vengeance took precedence over peace. On the other hand, though, while the general amnesty and "alternate punishment" agreement was an important precondition to FARC accepting peace (why should they otherwise turn over their arms and quietly accept being hung or shot?), I can see why those who have been hurt by FARC over the last 52 years of ceaseless conflict would see it as a way for them to escape justice instead.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/10/02/496299856/colombians-go-to-the-polls-with-one-question-in-mind-war-or-peace
the idiots rejected it!I won't call them idiots, but I do regret that vengeance took precedence over peace. On the other hand, though, while the general amnesty and "alternate punishment" agreement was an important precondition to FARC accepting peace (why should they otherwise turn over their arms and quietly accept being hung or shot?), I can see why those who have been hurt by FARC over the last 52 years of ceaseless conflict would see it as a way for them to escape justice instead.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/10/02/496299856/colombians-go-to-the-polls-with-one-question-in-mind-war-or-peace
Russia is conducting the biggest civil defence exercise in decades, involving about 40 million people, over 200 000 rescue workers and over 50 thousand vehicles across the country. (http://www.interfax.ru/russia/530781) Judging by the mentions of underground shelters and civil defence sirens, it's likely a nuclear war scenario.
Furthermore, according to RIA Novosti, Moscow authorities claim that the city's underground shelters are 100% ready to hold the entire population of the Russian capital (https://ria.ru/moscow/20160929/1478130933.html). Someone must have been reading Glukhovsky's Metro 2033...
When two tribes go to war
One is all that you can score! (https://youtu.be/SXWVpcypf0w?t=9)
If the Cold War was still ongoing, this wouldn't raise an eyebrow, but now when there is less fear of a nuclear war, it does...
Also, could you try to provide english translations? :P I'll go and use google translate, but everybody knows how crappy that tends to be.
Ministry of Emergency Situations will conduct the All-Russian Civil Defence Exercise that will involve more than 40 million people, the head of the ministry's Civil Defence Department Oleg Manuilo told Interfax.
"The exercise will be conducted from 4th till 8th of October. 40 million people, over 200 000 rescue workers and over 50 thousand vehicles will take part in it", he said.
Federal executive authorities, heads of regions, local self-government and organization organs will be involved.
Also, emergency rescue services will take part in civil defence exercises. The viability of current plans for various periods and readiness of all forces will be tested.
"In practice, alerting and assembling federal ministries, executive organs of federal subjects and local self-government will be tested", said Manuilo. Evacuation procedures, handing out personal protective equipment and establishing medical posts will be trained.
"Furthermore, civil defence shelters will be readied. Civil defence warning systems will be tested in cooperation with regional and municipal authorities", reported Manuilo.
Underground shelters for Moscow's population are 100% ready and can hold the entire population of the city, the deputy chief of Moscow's chief emergency situations department Andrei Mischenko told journalists on Thursday.
"New civil defence measures allowed us to conduct stock-taking of the city's underground spaces, allowing us to plan the sheltering of all population of the city"
Amongst everything else, there's http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-usa-nuclear-idUSKCN1230YN which strikes me as something they wanted to do but have needed a 'suitable' excuse for...
What happens when Putin retires/dies of old age?
aw shit I don't have a bunker, how will i survive wwiiiDig deeper
The increasingly bigger number of people in China apparently believe that they have the rightful claim to Vladivostok. (https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sankei.com%2Fwest%2Fnews%2F161004%2Fwst1610040001-n1.html&edit-text=&act=url) Potential grounds for a sudden-yet-inevitable betrayal?inb4 China must protect Chinese speaking Chinese
I guess I'll put it here: apparently under a new just recently tested system that is planned to be implemented along the entire Russia (https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fizvestia.ru%2Fnews%2F637442&edit-text=&act=url), all non-federal civilian administration, including governors, local and regional governments, and regional branches of: 1) internal affairs ministry (basically police), 2) ministry of emergency situations (first responders), 3) FSB (you all know who they are), 4) and the newly formed "RusGuard" (which is basically like USA's National Guard, only more evil), are now to be placed under direct military control (as in, they give orders to them) during war time (or martial law, though these two seem to be used interchangeably in the article).These measures seem quite desperate for peacetime. In the most likely scenario where Moscow would be forced to enact them, things like the effectiveness of local bureaucrats wouldn't matter anymore. The most pressing concern for Putin and Co. during such turn of events, in my opinion, would be something like "Get to Mount Yamantau right fucking now or be vaporised".
This kind of ridiculous centralization of power doesn't seem sane to me. Who the fuck thought that this was a good idea?
Russian government is already absurdly centralized to the point that if you take out the central administration in Moscow, you'd be effectively collapsing the entire system, since there are zero mechanisms for smaller-level administration to carry out the functions of the higher-level ones, how did someone manage to look at that and think that "clearly Russia is not centralized enough, what Russia needs is even more centralization!"?
Could be a campaign endorsement for Clinton....I guess I'll put it here: apparently under a new just recently tested system that is planned to be implemented along the entire Russia (https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fizvestia.ru%2Fnews%2F637442&edit-text=&act=url), all non-federal civilian administration, including governors, local and regional governments, and regional branches of: 1) internal affairs ministry (basically police), 2) ministry of emergency situations (first responders), 3) FSB (you all know who they are), 4) and the newly formed "RusGuard" (which is basically like USA's National Guard, only more evil), are now to be placed under direct military control (as in, they give orders to them) during war time (or martial law, though these two seem to be used interchangeably in the article).These measures seem quite desperate for peacetime. In the most likely scenario where Moscow would be forced to enact them, things like the effectiveness of local bureaucrats wouldn't matter anymore. The most pressing concern for Putin and Co. during such turn of events, in my opinion, would be something like "Get to Mount Yamantau right fucking now or be vaporised".
This kind of ridiculous centralization of power doesn't seem sane to me. Who the fuck thought that this was a good idea?
Russian government is already absurdly centralized to the point that if you take out the central administration in Moscow, you'd be effectively collapsing the entire system, since there are zero mechanisms for smaller-level administration to carry out the functions of the higher-level ones, how did someone manage to look at that and think that "clearly Russia is not centralized enough, what Russia needs is even more centralization!"?
Also, it's interesting how Russia started preparing for nuclear war once it became clear that Trump has no chance of winning the US presidential election. The Kremlin apparently thinks Hillary getting in the Oval Office may actually start or trigger WW3, and that's not really reassuring.
"Vote Clinton, Amerikan pig dogs, usher in the death of the world"Would Clinton continue the power play versus Russia is probably the question
Wasn't there something about Trump apparently having ties to Russian politicians? I'm happily down here in the southern hemisphere watching you all just freak out about crap I don't a wombat's ass about.The latest evidence of his ties to Russia was him repeating filthy Russian propaganda from Sputnik a few hours after they deleted it.
tl;dr looks like the cease fire between Ukraine and pro-Russian rebels is now officially over.That must be the tenth time that happened. Don't worry, it'll get enforced again, soon. "Only Minsk agreements, no alternatives!" is a fucking mantra at this point.
Arson Pavlov, alias 'Motorola', one of the highest ranking pro-Russian seperatist commanders has been assasinated by a bomb blowing up the elevator in his appartment.To be honest this post is... very far away from reality
The leader of the rebel republic of Donetsk has immediatly accused the Ukrainian government of being behind it, and declared war.
Immediatly after, Ukrainian forces at the border are reporting heavy incoming fire.
Motorola, a former communications officer in the Russian army, joined the rebel forces in the spring of 2014, and grew to be one of the most feared commanders.
Amongst rebels, he was honoured as a hero, but Kiev regarded him as a war criminal. In an interview, Motorola once confessed to have personally executed 15 prisoners.
This wasn't the first attempt on his life. In june, a bomb went of in a hospital he was admitted to, but that time he remained unharmed.
tl;dr looks like the cease fire between Ukraine and pro-Russian rebels is now officially over.
And he simply doesn't care that Mototola got upgraded to Samsung Galaxy
BurnedAnd he simply doesn't care that Mototola got upgraded to Samsung GalaxyI'm going to hell for how hard I laughed at this, but I find myself struggling to feel bad for the man either.
The RS-28 Sarmat rocket "is capable of wiping out parts of the earth the size of Texas or France," Russian state news outlet Sputnik reported in May.Oh yeah, those people. Yeah, they could say something like that. They sure like their stupidly hyperbolic statements about both Russian unconditional absolute supremacy and about NATO's "questionable" superiority over Russian military forces. Quite annoying, as you can see.
Russiaclaimsboasts new missile of theirs can wipe out a Texas or France sized area of the Earth (http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/26/europe/russia-nuclear-missile-satan-2/?iid=ob_lockedrail_topeditorial).
Um, Russia, that's not a nuclear missile, that'd be like an ANTI-MATTER missile. We're talking about dinosaur killer asteroid yields here....
Also, I don't know who nicknamed it the Satan-2. If they want to boast, fine, but it'd be better to do more believeable claims.
Вопреки подходу разработчиков КБ «Южное» и академика Янгеля (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Yangel) лично, создавших ракету, способную стирать с лица земли участки размером с Техас, создание РС-28 требует в первую очередь освоить более высокие скоростные показатели, благодаря которым станет возможно преодолевать любую существующую (и разрабатываемую на замену) систему противоракетной обороны какой бы то ни было страны.
Мораль сей басни такова:
- Look for original sources;
- Read the source material carefully;
- Do not base your assumptions about what other country's media is saying on second-hand accounts.
Problem with Russian nukes is not that they are advanced or anything but the simple fact that there are a lot of them. And while current Russian nuclear arsenal is in a way worse than what USSR had in 1980s it is still more than enough to cause extinction of humans.What.
The world is much closer to a nuclear war than it ever was. USSR had an awful ideology but there were no millions of USSR citizens dreaming about nuking evil enemies. Modern Russia is a very different story. Huge chunk of their population wants to nuke the evil West.
So are you talking about global nuclear winter or...? :VI've heard "9/11 syndrome" applied to two things. The first is the political climate of fear, terror, and general societal neurosis that resulted in Islamophobia, mutual animosity, and the like; it's kind of a click-bait way of looking at a much more general topic that never (thankfully) really caught on. The second, and the one MSH's almost certainly referring to, is the actual health effects of the collapse of the towers. Basically, when the towers went down, it kicked up a massive amount of lovely dust containing all sorts of wonderful particulate matter ranging from concrete, glass, cellulose, and the like to asbestos, lead, silicon, and mercury, seasoned with enough of a sprinkling of cadmium, carcinogenic PAHs, and dioxins to keep things interesting. This was only added to by the smoke of three months of fires that continued to burn or smoulder under the debris, and the net effect of this has been increased risks of respiratory ailments and cancer not only among the first-responders (though they are certainly the highest at-risk group by orders of magnitude), but possibly even also other residents of New York in the vicinity and downwind (at least between the site and the sea; prevailing winds drove most of the smoke out over the Atlantic).
Uh, the most extreme nuclear winter projections have been debunked, but the cooling effects of upper troposphere/stratosphere injections of soot and ash are an observed fact after Pinatubo and the like.
not enough spare large citiesUh, the most extreme nuclear winter projections have been debunked, but the cooling effects of upper troposphere/stratosphere injections of soot and ash are an observed fact after Pinatubo and the like.
Are you saying we could use nuclear arms to combat environment temperature change? Guys, we could literally bomb global warming. Why haven't we done this already?
Not only can nuking combat global warming, the side benefit is that the irradiated areas will not be trampled by human feet for thousands of years.It is too simplistic to say that Chernobyl has been kind to wildlife; it has been kind to wildlife most resistant to radiation. Birds for example are completely fucked, their eggs laid are too fragile to sit on thus they all die. This leaves a big empty space that outsider birds think is wonderful, at least until they die to death too
Ironically, while worldwide wildlife has decreased by nearly 60% over 40 years, Biodiversity and animal populations have improved dramatically over the same timespan, in Tsjernobyl.
Some cool stories by Chernobyl liquidators claimed that high radiation levels in the immediate aftermath of the disaster killed off all small birds in and around Chernobyl, such as sparrows. People involved in decontamination procedures reported seeing hundreds of dead birds strewn all over some areas.Not only can nuking combat global warming, the side benefit is that the irradiated areas will not be trampled by human feet for thousands of years.It is too simplistic to say that Chernobyl has been kind to wildlife; it has been kind to wildlife most resistant to radiation. Birds for example are completely fucked, their eggs laid are too fragile to sit on thus they all die. This leaves a big empty space that outsider birds think is wonderful, at least until they die to death too
Ironically, while worldwide wildlife has decreased by nearly 60% over 40 years, Biodiversity and animal populations have improved dramatically over the same timespan, in Tsjernobyl.
This leaves a new empty space for more birds to pleasantly find their premature death with their childrens' only respite being they were fortunate to die in their shells
Guardian G.I. is a credit to the forum and mild averter of WWIIIToo bad people and politicians who don't double-check information will just take it at face-value. I can definitely imagine Hillary droning on about Russian nuclear threat to Europe and America like it's 1962.
The end result was some malformed pine trees with spiral needles.Uzumaki...Uzumaki...
Ismael Galván of Paris-Sud University and colleagues captured 152 birds representing 16 species from sites within and near the Chernobyl exclusion zone. They took blood samples and analyzed the birds’ levels of antioxidants, how much their DNA had been damaged and their body condition. They also measured the levels of the pigment pheomelanin in the birds’ feathers.Evolution will find a way. Keep in mind that 30 years is nothing for evolution and yet it starts working.
When the researchers compared birds captured in higher radiation areas with those in lower radiation spots, they found something surprising: The birds from the higher radiation zones were generally in better condition, and they had higher levels of antioxidants. These molecules can help cells by stopping the reaction through which ionizing radiation damages DNA.
“To our knowledge, this represents the first evidence of adaptation to ionizing radiation in wild populations of animals,” the researchers write.
You're thinking big, but not big enough, we need to toss all the nukes down a supervolcano and bomb THAT!Uh, the most extreme nuclear winter projections have been debunked, but the cooling effects of upper troposphere/stratosphere injections of soot and ash are an observed fact after Pinatubo and the like.
Are you saying we could use nuclear arms to combat environment temperature change? Guys, we could literally bomb global warming. Why haven't we done this already?
The difference is that if the pyrochemical concept is true, it would fill the atmosphere with material inhospitable to most forms of life, and unlike typical pollution or radiation won't be mitigated over time.If airborne particles could eventually settle after Theia crashed into Earth and created Moon, I'm sure any puny dust cloud kicked up by humans would settle down too.
yeah but would we die before it settledThe difference is that if the pyrochemical concept is true, it would fill the atmosphere with material inhospitable to most forms of life, and unlike typical pollution or radiation won't be mitigated over time.If airborne particles could eventually settle after Theia crashed into Earth and created Moon, I'm sure any puny dust cloud kicked up by humans would settle down too.
yeah but would we die before it settledThe difference is that if the pyrochemical concept is true, it would fill the atmosphere with material inhospitable to most forms of life, and unlike typical pollution or radiation won't be mitigated over time.If airborne particles could eventually settle after Theia crashed into Earth and created Moon, I'm sure any puny dust cloud kicked up by humans would settle down too.
Dont worry, british queen probably has good enough personal vault for surviving this.Even after WWIII Charles still won't inherit the throne
Not sure about Corbyn though.
yeah but would we die before it settledThe difference is that if the pyrochemical concept is true, it would fill the atmosphere with material inhospitable to most forms of life, and unlike typical pollution or radiation won't be mitigated over time.If airborne particles could eventually settle after Theia crashed into Earth and created Moon, I'm sure any puny dust cloud kicked up by humans would settle down too.
life, uh, finds a wayYes, but
http://www.zmescience.com/science/planet-vaporized-moon-history/(I'd love to read that, but it has an annoying scrolling behaviour, where it seems to want to go sideways but then a menu pops up on the left, for no apparent reason... Web-design hipsters? What's wrong with the normal method?)
But does the high pressure potassium make the cheese taste better?Your basic original Luneburg masses aren't really affected. But then the Rokpol collapses under the force of Graviera. If you started with a waxy coat, that'd evaporate off leaving the resulting Swiss Cheese. At the subatomic level, of course, Quark dominates. Unless you believe in String Cheese theory.
So, on the front it's basically a stalemate with constant shelling by artillery? What is this, WW1?
So, on the front it's basically a stalemate with constant shelling by artillery? What is this, WW1?No, it's a semi-frozen conflict. There are many of those around Russia due to them trying to police all of the ex-USSR countries, the hottest one outside of Ukraine is probably in between Armenia and Azerbaijan. They've actually used attack helicopters there in the latest bout of hostilities, IIRC.
So, on the front it's basically a stalemate with constant shelling by artillery? What is this, WW1?No, it's a semi-frozen conflict. There are many of those around Russia due to them trying to police all of the ex-USSR countries, the hottest one outside of Ukraine is probably in between Armenia and Azerbaijan. They've actually used attack helicopters there in the latest bout of hostilities, IIRC.
If the references to trench warfare I've seen in news articles are anything to go by, then they have those in abundance too.So, on the front it's basically a stalemate with constant shelling by artillery? What is this, WW1?
Without the trenches, maybe....
A frozen conflict is a war or previously-active military conflict that's not actively moving in either direction, but which hasn't been concluded by a peace treaty or other conclusive diplomatic arrangement. A cold war is one in which direct military engagement is not being pursued, but one in which the primary means of conflict are economic, political, social (propaganda), espionage, and/or proxy conflicts between third-parties. Not all frozen conflicts are cold wars, and not all cold wars are frozen conflicts. For instance, the most famous Cold War between the US and USSR was not a frozen conflict; there was never an active military state of war between the two powers. The war between the ROC and PRC is frozen, but is not a cold war as, occasional rhetoric aside, the two have largely adopted a "live and let live" attitude as long as the present status quo holds. The two Koreas are both.So, on the front it's basically a stalemate with constant shelling by artillery? What is this, WW1?No, it's a semi-frozen conflict. There are many of those around Russia due to them trying to police all of the ex-USSR countries, the hottest one outside of Ukraine is probably in between Armenia and Azerbaijan. They've actually used attack helicopters there in the latest bout of hostilities, IIRC.
I think you mean a Cold War? Because semi-frozen would be cold. Though obviously the US and USSR didn't skirmish with each other.
Actually, it sort of lies in the region between a full on Cold War and a hot war with major fighting. maybe.
This is WW1 with drones, thermographic cameras and some other stuff. No side is using airforce and Ukraine pulled most of artillery away from the front-line because of Minsk agreements (It is a treason if you ask me)So, on the front it's basically a stalemate with constant shelling by artillery? What is this, WW1?
Without the trenches, maybe....
Nah, forget the political motivations.http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/11/long-range-projectiles-for-navys-newest-ship-too-expensive-to-shoot/
Just remember: Ordnance has expiry dates. Use it or lose it, folks.
I've seen info that they recently fished out an Orlan-10 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlan-10) from the sea and that the other side doesn't really give a shit and artillery strikes at Ukrainian side are still happening.This is WW1 with drones, thermographic cameras and some other stuff. No side is using airforce and Ukraine pulled most of artillery away from the front-line because of Minsk agreements (It is a treason if you ask me)So, on the front it's basically a stalemate with constant shelling by artillery? What is this, WW1?
Without the trenches, maybe....
Nah, forget the political motivations.http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/11/long-range-projectiles-for-navys-newest-ship-too-expensive-to-shoot/
Just remember: Ordnance has expiry dates. Use it or lose it, folks.
Gotta find someone to buy the 800k missiles my client cancelled, before it expires. :P
Nah, forget the political motivations.http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/11/long-range-projectiles-for-navys-newest-ship-too-expensive-to-shoot/
Just remember: Ordnance has expiry dates. Use it or lose it, folks.
Gotta find someone to buy the 800k missiles my client cancelled, before it expires. :P
They're not even missiles, just the world's most expensive arty rounds. It's especially entertaining that Lockheed is claiming time on target and first round kill probability as serious innovation, considering they've been artillery considerations for longer than I've been alive.
Actually, that's exactly what they are. When the Navy finally managed to convince Congress to let them retire the Iowas, one of the conditions was that the Navy had to have something to replace them as gun platforms for fire support. These rounds, fired from the Zumwalts, were the intended replacement. The other alternative, proposed retrofits to the Arleigh Burkes to increase their gun range, hit severe cost inflation, did not deliver on expectations based on preliminary data, and was ultimately and unceremoniously cancelled to not much notice from Congress, because DDGs and DDXs aren't nearly as sexy as the Queens of the Waves. Do let me know if that starts ringing any bells. :PNah, forget the political motivations.http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/11/long-range-projectiles-for-navys-newest-ship-too-expensive-to-shoot/
Just remember: Ordnance has expiry dates. Use it or lose it, folks.
Gotta find someone to buy the 800k missiles my client cancelled, before it expires. :P
They're not even missiles, just the world's most expensive arty rounds. It's especially entertaining that Lockheed is claiming time on target and first round kill probability as serious innovation, considering they've been artillery considerations for longer than I've been alive.
Kind of sounds like an attempt to make battleships a thing again.
Russia withdraws from the International Criminal Court (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-international-criminal-court-icc-leaves-pulls-out-withdraws-putin-assad-syria-war-aleppo-a7420676.html)Putin probably making contingency plans that break human rights laws because:
It is an interesting development. Are they expecting some unfavourable decisions?
Russia withdraws from the International Criminal Court (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-international-criminal-court-icc-leaves-pulls-out-withdraws-putin-assad-syria-war-aleppo-a7420676.html)Well the UN did say they wanted investigationed opened into violations of Geneva Convention and Human Rights in Syria, like the bombing of schools, hospitals and Doctors Without Borders.
It is an interesting development. Are they expecting some unfavourable decisions?
Russia withdraws from the International Criminal Court (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-international-criminal-court-icc-leaves-pulls-out-withdraws-putin-assad-syria-war-aleppo-a7420676.html)They've withdrawn because of such "unfavourable decision", IIRC the ICC has decided in the couple past days that Crimea annexation was an act of war against Ukraine, which is very "well, duh", but current Russian government is absolutely obsessed with keeping that thin veneer of being technically not in the complete wrong. At least, that's what the news headlines here have said.
It is an interesting development. Are they expecting some unfavourable decisions?
Welp, this year shapes to be a total disaster and rout for the forces of liberty. (http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/30/503863756/opec-agrees-to-first-cut-in-oil-production-since-2008)
Yay, that's great news. Canada's economy will improve considerably as a result....the defeat is even worse than I thought, nooooooo! Now the Canadians will be able to finally fund their invasion into USA, enslaving Americans and torturing them with excessive amounts of maple syrup!
Russia just wants friends! (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38167590)Putin obviously knows that his country cannot survive a Cold War 2.0, of course he doesn't want any conflict! At least, any conflict not sanctioned by the Kremlin...
To be fair, they'd probably be less inclined towards being hostile if they can just do what they've been doing and help get as many pro-Putin people into power in other countries.
A recent survey about the lifestyle and attitudes of Turkish people has revealed intriguing results, with a large majority of people – 84 percent – saying that the best thing they do to pass the time is "watching TV." Almost half of respondents admitted that they never do exercise, even walking.
The survey, which was conducted by the Ipsos KMG Research and Consultancy Company with almost 16,000 people across Turkey and published in daily Posta, also revealed that 96 percent of Turks have never seen an opera or ballet in their lives.
24% "never listen to music". 45% "never read a book". 68% "never surf the internet". 56% "never go to a cinema". 56% "never had any photos taken, other than head shots for IDs and such"What the fuck?!
84% has their main and favorite hobby as "watching TV". 69% of men and 57% of women think women should need their husband's permission to work. 20% of men and 18% of women think women can be slapped if necessary.
94% has never been abroad on vacation. 46% has never been on vacation within the country either.
BUT TURKEY IS A MODERN COUNTRY THAT CAN INTO EU IT IS VERY WESTERN AND EVERYONE IS VERY MUCH HAPPY HERE. YES VERY MUCH SECULAR TOO.Quote from: short summary of key points, also WHAT THE FUCK24% "never listen to music". 45% "never read a book". 68% "never surf the internet". 56% "never go to a cinema". 56% "never had any photos taken, other than head shots for IDs and such"What the fuck?!
84% has their main and favorite hobby as "watching TV". 69% of men and 57% of women think women should need their husband's permission to work. 20% of men and 18% of women think women can be slapped if necessary.
94% has never been abroad on vacation. 46% has never been on vacation within the country either.
Though I myself have never been to an opera or ballet either, and that's also a weird thing to ask.Does a theater play count?
The Turkish press reports that Lavrov at a press conference said that "a blow to the Turkish position has been caused by the Syrian army". The minister said exactly the opposite: neither Russia nor Syria shot on Turkish positions. Representatives of the Turkish Foreign Ministry explained the error of its media by features of the Turkish language and translation difficulties.Yeah, "translation difficulties". Riiiiiiight.
To the question or to me? I've seen theater before, yeah.Though I myself have never been to an opera or ballet either, and that's also a weird thing to ask.Does a theater play count?
The closest I've ever come to ballet is the Black Swan and Billy Elliot. Never seen an opera, unless musicals county, in which case I still haven't seen anyone live (that I can remember).Let me direct you at Gilbert and Sullivan's operettas, if done decently well. There'll almost certainly be some Am-Dram group near you preparing to stage one or other of them. If nothing else, you'll be humming the tunes. (You almost certainly already know the accompaniment to The Major-General's Song (Pirates Of Penzance), so often used for other things.) The words in such a patter-song can be a bit obtuse (late Victorian topicality doesn't travel seemlessly through the years, and then there's social-geography to worry about, but it is particularly traditional for I Have A Little List (Mikado) to be given a contemporary satirical verse or three) but the plots are explained mostly through the intervening spoken lines.
"I've never seen a Gilbert and Sullivan work."The closest I've ever come to ballet is the Black Swan and Billy Elliot. Never seen an opera, unless musicals county, in which case I still haven't seen anyone live (that I can remember).Let me direct you at Gilbert and Sullivan's operettas, if done decently well.
The closest I've ever come to ballet is the Black Swan and Billy Elliot. Never seen an opera, unless musicals county, in which case I still haven't seen anyone live (that I can remember).Let me direct you at Gilbert and Sullivan's operettas, if done decently well. There'll almost certainly be some Am-Dram group near you preparing to stage one or other of them. If nothing else, you'll be humming the tunes. (You almost certainly already know the accompaniment to The Major-General's Song (Pirates Of Penzance), so often used for other things.) The words in such a patter-song can be a bit obtuse (late Victorian topicality doesn't travel seemlessly through the years, and then there's social-geography to worry about, but it is particularly traditional for I Have A Little List (Mikado) to be given a contemporary satirical verse or three) but the plots are explained mostly through the intervening spoken lines.
Or look up something from the golden age of Hollywood, like Seven Brides For Seven Brothers. Very accessible, very colourful, some interesting gender politics (enough to argue about) and mass brawling to music!
And if you enjoyed The Producers (the acclaimed 1968 film of a disasterous attempt to stage a disasterous musical), there's The Producer's (the acclaimed 2001 stage musical of the film), also readily available as The Producers (the acclaimed 2005 film musical adaptation of the acclaimed stage musical of the acclaimed film of the disasterous attempt to stage a disasterous musical), which should be an easy watch. ;)
Not American, starvabro.Neither are Gilbert And Sullivan. (Nor is Gilbert O'Sullivan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_O'Sullivan), but then he's nothing to do with anything.. :P )
The FSB has issued a warning that a cyberattack on Russian banks is imminent, carried out from Dutch soil by an Ukrainian internet company. The attack will be followed up by foreign agencies spreading unrest in the Russian financial sector.While I don't put it past happening (there's recent history (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37857658)) I'm inclined to believe this has a lot more to do with deflection, and Trumpist "accuse your opponent of things you've been doing all along".
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/russische-geheime-dienst-waarschuwt-voor-cyberaanval-vanaf-nederlandse-servers~a4426607/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/russische-geheime-dienst-waarschuwt-voor-cyberaanval-vanaf-nederlandse-servers~a4426607/)
The FSB has issued a warning that a cyberattack on Russian banks is imminent, carried out from Dutch soil by an Ukrainian internet company. The attack will be followed up by foreign agencies spreading unrest in the Russian financial sector.Hmmm? I don't see anything like that on both Russian news aggregators, and there are no sources/links in your article, too...
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/russische-geheime-dienst-waarschuwt-voor-cyberaanval-vanaf-nederlandse-servers~a4426607/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/russische-geheime-dienst-waarschuwt-voor-cyberaanval-vanaf-nederlandse-servers~a4426607/)
It's on RIA Novosti. (https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20161202/1482688773.html)The FSB has issued a warning that a cyberattack on Russian banks is imminent, carried out from Dutch soil by an Ukrainian internet company. The attack will be followed up by foreign agencies spreading unrest in the Russian financial sector.Hmmm? I don't see anything like that on both Russian news aggregators, and there are no sources/links in your article, too...
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/russische-geheime-dienst-waarschuwt-voor-cyberaanval-vanaf-nederlandse-servers~a4426607/ (http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/russische-geheime-dienst-waarschuwt-voor-cyberaanval-vanaf-nederlandse-servers~a4426607/)
...I guess no one has anything to say about half of all Russians working in the shadow economy? Is that "business as usual"?I thought that was the Russian economy
Oh oops wrong EU thread, moving it to the other one
Well, if history tells us anything, there will be 21 years gap between WW2 and WW3.World War Three was in 1966, bang on time, when we attacked Venus with Venera 3. I don't know how that conflict went/is going. The Mekon is a subtle amd patient enemy, at times.
Peace treaty signed just in time for WW3. :D
Ukrainian Ranger is out. Please continue the discussion without the incitement to further murder.
A lot of people are running around in circles and saying that this will somehow cause WW3, which I don't... quite... see happening.
Also, nuuuu not UR, who will now provide us with news on how the free and democratic Ukraine is growing stronger each day and will soon overcome Russia?
Ukrainian Ranger is out. Please continue the discussion without the incitement to further murder.Thanks
Some Turkish media are now blaming the assassination of the Russian ambassador on the Gülen movement, supported by the CIA.
This seems very unlikely. The shooter, a 22-year old member of the Turkish police, had been suspended from his duties after the coup attempt on accusation of having ties to the FETO (Gülen movement), but he was cleared and reinstated. This would not have happened if the suspicions had been serious.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/aanslag-in-ankara-daar-moet-gulen-van-weten~a4437577/
Some Turkish media are now blaming the assassination of the Russian ambassador on the Gülen movement, supported by the CIA.the "Gülen" stuff reminds me of the "anti revolutionary" that always happens in revolutions. its the nonexistent or distant other to blame everything on. always looks ludicrous in hindsight. but no one dares challenge comrade Erdogan.
This seems very unlikely. The shooter, a 22-year old member of the Turkish police, had been suspended from his duties after the coup attempt on accusation of having ties to the FETO (Gülen movement), but he was cleared and reinstated. This would not have happened if the suspicions had been serious.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/aanslag-in-ankara-daar-moet-gulen-van-weten~a4437577/
Of course not. That would make you a Gülenist, and that's the last thing you want to be.Some Turkish media are now blaming the assassination of the Russian ambassador on the Gülen movement, supported by the CIA.the "Gülen" stuff reminds me of the "anti revolutionary" that always happens in revolutions. its the nonexistent or distant other to blame everything on. always looks ludicrous in hindsight. but no one dares challenge comrade Erdogan.
This seems very unlikely. The shooter, a 22-year old member of the Turkish police, had been suspended from his duties after the coup attempt on accusation of having ties to the FETO (Gülen movement), but he was cleared and reinstated. This would not have happened if the suspicions had been serious.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/aanslag-in-ankara-daar-moet-gulen-van-weten~a4437577/
Erdogan officially accused the Gülen movement (and indirectly with it, the US) for the murder of th Russian diplomat.
Makes sense. Guy kills ambassador screaming don't forget Aleppo, but it it was a Gülenist who has nothing to do with Aleppo. Suuuure.
Ooh, so you mean Mexico wants us to believe that it's the Mossad who wants us to believe that it's the Belgians who want us to believe that it's not the Australians that want us to believe that it's IS that wants us to believe that it was or wasn't Putin?Erdogan officially accused the Gülen movement (and indirectly with it, the US) for the murder of th Russian diplomat.
Makes sense. Guy kills ambassador screaming don't forget Aleppo, but it it was a Gülenist who has nothing to do with Aleppo. Suuuure.
That's just what the Gülenists want you to think! There are enemies everywhere martinuzz, you've got to think like them to beat them.
:P
After Berlin's incident at the Christmas Market, the other day (somewhat personal, given that I knew the streets involved, although it was never Christmas time when I was there), I've now observed armed police (as well as the regular bunch, being much more visible than usual) deployed to stroll around both the city-centre and the out-of-town shopping centre in pairs, here in the UK.They get deployed when an imminent attack is likely. Ergo there is a credible threat. Realistically there is always a credible threat, however in lieu of recent attacks, more security usually gets deployed to cover more corners with countermeasures in the event of accomplices, imitators or individual units enjoying the chaos to attack. The UK tends to stay at substantial, as there is usually a risk of Islamists or Republicans attacking something somewhere at any moment, whilst we're now at severe meaning there is good reason to believe an attack is highly likely. There is only one higher security alert, which is one that means an attack is expected (last used before the 7/7 bombings occurred). The threat is assessed based off of capabilities, terrorist activity and whatever intelligence they have access to that we don't, and from what they're looking at, it's very easy to gain access to a vehicle like a lorry, terrorist activity is high throughout the continent and the timespan of Christmas markets and festivals makes for vulnerable soft targets where mass casualties can occur. Thus the armed police would ensure casualties are minimized in the event of an attack. What is also more severe is how terrorists have changed their tactics from elaborate plans for mass casualties requiring much communication (that can be intercepted) to just having people run around with machetes, guns and trucks, which greatly reduces the response time possible for security forces. Thus by placing security forces at likely targets, police can maximize the chance that their response time will be minutes or better.
The connection seems obvious. We don't (out here in the provinces, at least) often see these guys walking round our British streets, and I've never noticed them in the latter locale. These serious-looking guys don't get deployed on a whim.
I wouldn't go so far as to say there's a credible threat, but maybe a credible fear, enough to make those in charge think it's less worrying for people to see them than it is to not see them. (Or, uncharitably, a political decision to make people think the situation is such that this is what they should be thinking.)
I don't think I've seen so many police firearms in one day since the day I happened to be wandering through the back streets of London to avoid a particularly rowdy anti-capitalism march in central London and happened to pass by an obvious staging post for backup patrols of various types (riot, equine, firearms, paramedics... no firefighters though), waiting to see if they were needed. (And they almost certainly weren't, despite how the march later turned out on the news.)The London Olympics had more, much much more. Chances are this is mostly all for show, as if you have armed police directing road blocks and civilian traffic in an orderly fashion, they will feel safe that they can go to Christmas market without being run over by lorries, thus will have an altogether enjoyable time and help ensure society runs in an ordinary fashion
I imagine that the DefCon level is similarly raised all over, this week, across Europe as a whole.
Erdogan officially accused the Gülen movement (and indirectly with it, the US) for the murder of th Russian diplomat.It's so that when they get called on it by their good friends the Russians they can say 'hey you're right' and then seem reasonable for doubling down on Middle East for next 15 years.
Makes sense. Guy kills ambassador screaming don't forget Aleppo, but it it was a Gülenist who has nothing to do with Aleppo. Suuuure.
I don't know how anybody can be surprised. The Israeli government takes our money and then thumbs their nose at us, starts all sorts of shit between our alliances and then condemns us for not supporting them more. Things have been moving this way for a while now.
I don't know how anybody can be surprised. The Israeli government takes our money and then thumbs their nose at us, starts all sorts of shit between our alliances and then condemns us for not supporting them more. Things have been moving this way for a while now.
The UN Security Council just passed a resolution condemning Israeli settlement and demanding it stop, with the USA choosing to abstain instead of vetoing like they usually do. It's the security council instead of the general assembly, so it even actually means something.Oy vey, Obama has reversed decades of USA policy re: Israel in the last month of his Presidency, quite a bold move. In other news, Trump has just became the Defender of the Jewish nation.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/23/world/middleeast/israel-settlements-un-vote.html?_r=0
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestinians-un-idUSKBN14C1IV
I don't know how anybody can be surprised. The Israeli government takes our money and then thumbs their nose at us, starts all sorts of shit between our alliances and then condemns us for not supporting them more. Things have been moving this way for a while now.
What sort of shit Israel started between American alliances?
Israel doesn't play nice with Turks, Egyptians and Arabs, Western audiences do not like this (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gaza-conflict-50-day-war-by-numbers-9693310.html)I don't know how anybody can be surprised. The Israeli government takes our money and then thumbs their nose at us, starts all sorts of shit between our alliances and then condemns us for not supporting them more. Things have been moving this way for a while now.What sort of shit Israel started between American alliances?
Something something 50 years ago is not 'starts all kinds of shit between alliances'. Or if it is, I suppose we should start looking at what the CIA did to various nations in that era. That makes the Mossad sinking a US ship look like a joke.Rather disrespectful to just dismiss killing your allies like a joke; moreover that logic is completely retarded. We DO look at what the CIA did to various nations, we don't justify the existence of immorality with the existence of immorality
Fight absurdism with absurdismFighting absurdism with absurdism makes nihilism
Israel doesn't play nice with Turks, Egyptians and Arabs, Western audiences do not like this (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gaza-conflict-50-day-war-by-numbers-9693310.html)Double standards. It's okay if we turn Iraq into a burning rubble in the fight against terrorism, and 100s of thousands of people get killed, but when Israel does it, and a fraction of the property damage is dealt, and 2000 people get killed it's "BAD JEWS"
Most recent high profile case that Americans care about was the time Israel leaked information they gathered from spying on US diplomacy with Iran in order to alter US foreign policy (http://www.wsj.com/articles/israel-spied-on-iran-talks-1427164201) which made it impossible for the US to continue sharing information willingly with Israel (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-31538531)Double standards. Israel just trying to be more like NSA, US should be proud of their ally adopting their strategies.
Most significant case before that would no doubt be the passport affair
snipEgypt relations with Israel had improved significantly in recent years. Obama's speech in Egypt which totally undermined Mubarak, his support for the Arab Spring which proved to be just Jihadists uprising and his undermining of al-sisi which drove Egypt to Russia and Iran have all harmed the Egypt-US relationship way way more than anything Israel could ever do.
What? We give the US shit permanently for Iraq?
No, just as long as the "long-term unstability" that the CIA predicted before Gulf War 2 fades, I think.
Double standards. It's okay if we turn Iraq into a burning rubble in the fight against terrorism, and 100s of thousands of people get killed, but when Israel does it, and a fraction of the property damage is dealt, and 2000 people get killed it's "BAD JEWS"Yeah nah, most people in the West hold the West directly accountable for most of the shit that has gone wrong in the ME. Hell, we're still trying to get Dubya and Blair arrested for war crimes, and you may not have realized but Bay12 is very progressive - this is one of the forums where your argument has the weakest basis in reality.
Double standards. Israel just trying to be more like NSA, US should be proud of their ally adopting their strategies.Again, there is no double-standard. The NSA spying on Merkel was met with outrage, not approval, and worse still the passport scandal was something even the NSA wouldn't do so you don't even have that excuse for that. Not an argument, try actually having one later.
Egypt relations with Israel had improved significantly in recent years. Obama's speech in Egypt which totally undermined Mubarak, his support for the Arab Spring which proved to be just Jihadists uprising and his undermining of al-sisi which drove Egypt to Russia and Iran have all harmed the Egypt-US relationship way way more than anything Israel could ever do.I agree with you on all points except one missed; Israel's settlement activity in Jerusalem and and West Bank (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-38412079). Also as a point of information the Arab Spring wasn't "just" Jihadists uprising, as it was a very broad movement - however I will say that Western support of the Arab spring was with the foreknowledge that Islamist and Jihadist groups would take the forefront. Thanks for the info, any sources on improvement of Egypt-Israel relations? Such things are not often discussed at all in Western media
Turkey and Israel relations had improved this last years, even though Turkey is definitely not a proper US ally anymore since it is now a dictatorship ran by an Islamist that had funded ISIS, funding Jihadists in Syria, conquered parts of Syria to prevent Kurds from having a country of their own and is holding the EU ransom with refugees. regardless, Israel had stirred no shit between the U.S and Turkey."Turkish President Erdogan: 'I can't say if Israel or Hitler is more barbarous'" (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/erdogan-turkish-president-israel-hitler-more-barbarous-gaza-interview-palestinians-decide-holocaust-a7431311.html)
Arabs-Israel relations had improved dramatically in the recent years since Obama took office, precisely because of his deal with Iran that is, evidently, more harmful to the Arab states than Israel. Obama weakness and destructive foreign policy have caused Iraq and Syria to fall to Iranian hands and now they openly state their desire to take control of Yemen and Bahrain. i am not making this up nor am i relying on "fake news", these are all openly issued statements by Iranian top officials.Well you provided no sources so though I wish to believe you, I cannot. Given that I have posted where the Israelis leaked confidential information that undermined US diplomatic efforts, with source - I am not as convinced that it really is the case that the Arab nations who did less had more to fear than the Israelis who took more precautions.
Israel harmed US-West relations? big old LOL.I don't see how undermining US diplomacy helps US diplomacy tbh
I agree with you on all points except one missed; Israel's settlement activity in Jerusalem and and West Bank (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-38412079). Also as a point of information the Arab Spring wasn't "just" Jihadists uprising, as it was a very broad movement - however I will say that Western support of the Arab spring was with the foreknowledge that Islamist and Jihadist groups would take the forefront. Thanks for the info, any sources on improvement of Egypt-Israel relations? Such things are not often discussed at all in Western media
"Turkish President Erdogan: 'I can't say if Israel or Hitler is more barbarous'" (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/erdogan-turkish-president-israel-hitler-more-barbarous-gaza-interview-palestinians-decide-holocaust-a7431311.html)
>Turkey and Israel relations had improved
Yeah nah fam
At any rate they haven't conquered parts of Syria, their situation with the Kurds is complicated given that any Kurdish nation would likely carve out of their own, they're funding Islamists but then again, so is the US. Shots fired
Well you provided no sources so though I wish to believe you, I cannot. Given that I have posted where the Israelis leaked confidential information that undermined US diplomatic efforts, with source - I am not as convinced that it really is the case that the Arab nations who did less had more to fear than the Israelis who took more precautions.
I don't see how undermining US diplomacy helps US diplomacy tbh
Moreover I imagine most people in the West wouldn't really give a shit if Israel just stopped flattening neighbourhoods so visibly or stopped abusing the trust of its allies so flagrantly especially since it receives more military aid from it than any other country in history, including WWII (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-israel-statement-idUSKCN11K2CI)
Like damn, you gotta just be humble and acknowledge you were given one whole Germany or Korea's worth of defence budget
I can't see how that hurt US-Egypt relations. it sure as hell didn't hurt them before Obama and it sure as hell wont hurt them after Obama. the only thing that is hurting Egypt-US relations is Obama.Yeah yeah everything is Obama's fault, Israel is infallible and its settlement constructions has no opposition in the West whatsoever
Did i not say Erdogan is an Islamist, dictator and Jihadist promoter? i have.I don't see the issue, I'm agreeing with you
and i also said that the relationships were improved, as written in that very same article.No, written in the article is that an attempt to improve relations was made after an Israeli commando raid killed 10 turks and prompted the Turks to cut off all defence ties and expel the Israeli ambassador. Who are you trying to delude with fake news when the reality is before you?
regardless, Israel didn't hurt US-Turkey relations, it's the Jihadist who have. Do you seriously blame Israel for Erdogan? That's like saying the EU is now stirring shit between US and its allies because of Erdogan.This is hilarious
Turkey didn't conquer parts of Syria?! The recent news about Turkey losing 2 leopards tanks to ISIS happened at al-bab, 30KM from the nearest Turkey's border.No sources, it didn't happen. If you're going to claim another country is conquering another one you better bring sources mate
In fact, Turkey's conquered lands in Syria is now several times bigger than the Gaza stip.
I like how you are willing to say the Kurds-Turkey relations is a complicated issue to excuse Turkey conquering of chunks pf a country and just to stop the rightful formation of another country, but when palestinians attack Israel and Israel responds you give it as an example of Israel's wrongdoing and of stirring shit between the US and its allies. yeah, no double standards at all.Are you bloody daft
How long did it take for Iran to take american sailors hostage after they signed that deal? how long did it take them to breach that deal? (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/majid-rafizadeh/iran-breached-the-nuclear_b_9977768.html) . Bibi acted in order to prevent a catastrophe. he failed and now Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen and Saudi Arabia have to take the heat for it. soon it will be Bahrain and Egypt.
The five members of the UN Security Council have not reacted forcefully or taken appropriate measures to hold the Iranian government accountable for the violations. Generally speaking, China and Russia, which enjoy their strategic, geopolitical and economic alliance with Tehran and favor Iran’s counterbalance stance against the US and its allies, have used Iran’s line of argument for launching the ballistic missiles.So yep, Bibi acting by himself to stop the five security council members and Iran working together for a long-term diplomatic solution that would allow Iran to begin reintegrating into the world economy for the prosperity of its people whilst under observance by the USA to reduce its breakout time to a year (https://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/foreign-policy/iran-deal). Bibi acting unilaterally to sabotage international diplomacy using leaked information from confidential discussions gained through espionage on an ally - to directly alter US foreign policy. Do you really think anyone can get away with such actions with no backlash? It is foolish to think so
France, Britain and Germany, which are much to the left of the US, or sometimes follow in the footsteps of Washington’s policy towards Iran, have not taken these military maneuvers seriously.
The US has stopped short of calling Iran’s actions as violations of UN Security Council resolutions. President Obama will continue to overlook Iran’s belligerent actions, including ballistic missile launches and the detention of US sailors by the Iranian forces, until he leaves office. He desires what he sees as his crowning foreign policy “achievement”, the nuclear agreement, to remain intact.
President Obama is concerned that holding Iran accountable for these violations might force the Iranian leaders to abandon the nuclear deal, thus causing its failure.
Furthermore, France, Britain and other European countries have less incentive to publicly hold Iran responsible, because of the increasing economic and trade ties with Tehran particularly in the energy sector (oil and gas).
The Arab nations did less visibly because the american public doesn't give a damn about Saudi Arabia and they know it, plus, they still can't show any sort of alliance or at least agreement with Israel but if you google about the gulf states regarding the deal before it was signed, you could easily find articles of them calling out against it.Gulf allies 'back Iran nuclear deal' after US security guarantees (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-33758939)
Israel should just shut the fuck up when Obama is endangering the entire Middle East just because the US gives Israel military aid? i don't think so.QFT this is priceless
Didn't Erdogan praise Hitler and say he hoped to be as organized and effective at some point?
Dictator needs to learn to dictate, instead of mumble.
“If the system is abused it may lead to bad management resulting in disasters as in Hitler’s Germany ... The important thing is to pursue fair management that serves the nation,” the statement said, adding it was unacceptable to suggest Erdogan was casting Hitler’s Germany in a positive light.The damage control is not as sexy as the tabloid (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/01/turkish-president-recep-tayyip-erdogan-hitlers-germany-example-effective-government)
On Britain: "Britain is a very cold, uninhabitable country with small houses.”Ayy lmao he nailed it, don't know why people keep trying to immigrate here
Yeah yeah everything is Obama's fault, Israel is infallible and its settlement constructions has no opposition in the West whatsoever
Thanks Obama
No, written in the article is that an attempt to improve relations was made after an Israeli commando raid killed 10 turks and prompted the Turks to cut off all defence ties and expel the Israeli ambassador. Who are you trying to delude with fake news when the reality is before you?*And written in that article is the reforging of ties and exchanging Ambassadors back together. you conflate stuff that happened in 2010 and stuff that is happening now.
This is hilarious
Started off with a simple request for examples where Israel has taken US money, messed with US diplomacy and complained that the US does not support them enough despite being the largest recipient of military aid in history. I gave examples because MSH is sleepy or something, and then the goalposts moved to how double standards were being applied and I showed how that was wrong, now the goalposts have moved again to this
No sources, it didn't happen. If you're going to claim another country is conquering another one you better bring sources mate
I'm saying it's a complicated issue because it's a complicated issue, the USA backs the territorial sovereignty of Turkey yet Israel wants to "rightfully" balkanize other countries unilaterally or else is completely disregarding of its actions controversy in BRICS (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/where-brics-stand-israels-gaza-offensive-1458010) or how it has a become a serious source of concern amongst the US who supports Israel militarily (http://www.timesofisrael.com/bernie-sanders-accuses-netanyahu-of-overreacting-in-gaza-war/) all continuing from past offensives (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7810123.stm). No one is asking for Israel to not retaliate against attacks, they're far more concerned as MSH succinctly summed up with how Israel accepts vast sums of US military aid and yet acts unilaterally even if it threatens the stability of the Middle East, causes humanitarian crises which exacerbates the EU's troubles and actively undermines US foreign policy. All of these things makes it increasingly harder for anyone in the West to support Israel, because it openly disregards international law (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28437626) or as before, abuses its relationships with its allies. This is behaviour that is expected of belligerent nations, not allied ones, certainly not dependent ones - it's simply untenable and will shoot yourself in the foot
The five members of the UN Security Council have not reacted forcefully or taken appropriate measures to hold the Iranian government accountable for the violations. Generally speaking, China and Russia, which enjoy their strategic, geopolitical and economic alliance with Tehran and favor Iran’s counterbalance stance against the US and its allies, have used Iran’s line of argument for launching the ballistic missiles.
France, Britain and Germany, which are much to the left of the US, or sometimes follow in the footsteps of Washington’s policy towards Iran, have not taken these military maneuvers seriously.
The US has stopped short of calling Iran’s actions as violations of UN Security Council resolutions. President Obama will continue to overlook Iran’s belligerent actions, including ballistic missile launches and the detention of US sailors by the Iranian forces, until he leaves office. He desires what he sees as his crowning foreign policy “achievement”, the nuclear agreement, to remain intact.
President Obama is concerned that holding Iran accountable for these violations might force the Iranian leaders to abandon the nuclear deal, thus causing its failure.
Furthermore, France, Britain and other European countries have less incentive to publicly hold Iran responsible, because of the increasing economic and trade ties with Tehran particularly in the energy sector (oil and gas).
So yep, Bibi acting by himself to stop the five security council members and Iran working together for a long-term diplomatic solution that would allow Iran to begin reintegrating into the world economy for the prosperity of its people whilst under observance by the USA to reduce its breakout time to a year (https://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/foreign-policy/iran-deal). Bibi acting unilaterally to sabotage international diplomacy using leaked information from confidential discussions gained through espionage on an ally - to directly alter US foreign policy. Do you really think anyone can get away with such actions with no backlash? It is foolish to think so
Oh wait sorry, nah, this is a "catastrophe" and we must blame the Arabs for some reason.
Qatari Foreign Minister Khalid al-Attiya said the Iran deal represented the best option for regional stability.Your google powers are weak or you just stop at the first result which suits you.
QuoteNo sources, it didn't happen. If you're going to claim another country is conquering another one you better bring sources mate
Google “Operation Euphrates Shield”.
*When sources are being required for basic common knowledge, the discussion is futile, but i will get to that later.
“1. Reaffirms that the establishment by Israel of settlements in the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, has no legal validity and constitutes a flagrant violation under international law and a major obstacle to the achievement of the two-State solution and a just, lasting and comprehensive peace;East Jerusalem contains multiple sites of holy and other extremely major significance for Jews (like Western Wall, Temple Mt. , and Jewish quarter - which, apparently, only technically counts as a "settlement" because it was re-established after 1948, when they were forcibly expelled by the Arab League's genocidal onslaught), and this UN treaty has effectively told to them "get out, these don't belong to you".
“2. Reiterates its demand that Israel immediately and completely cease all settlement activities in the occupied Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem, and that it fully respect all of its legal obligations in this regard;
“3. Underlines that it will not recognize any changes to the 4 June 1967 lines, including with regard to Jerusalem, other than those agreed by the parties through negotiations;
Did Syria invade Turkey like it did to Israel?
And yeah, Let's wait and see how long will it take Turkey to pull out.
And btw, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_Cyprus Yeah. LOL.
As a result of the Turkish invasion, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe stated that the demographic structure of the island has been continuously modified as a result of the deliberate policies of the Turks. Following the occupation of Northern Cyprus, civilian settlers from Turkey began arriving on the island. Despite the lack of consensus on the exact figures, all parties concerned admitted that Turkish nationals began arriving in the northern part of the island in 1975.[150] It was suggested that over 120,000 settlers came to Cyprus from mainland Turkey.[150][dead link] This was a violation of the Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, which prohibits an occupier from transferring or deporting parts of its own civilian population into an occupied territory.[151]
So you have no idea if Turkey is going to stay or not, and just guessed based on how you don't like Turkey?
It's also interesting that you would speak negatively of Turkey's actions in Cyprus. From the article you linked:QuoteAs a result of the Turkish invasion, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe stated that the demographic structure of the island has been continuously modified as a result of the deliberate policies of the Turks. Following the occupation of Northern Cyprus, civilian settlers from Turkey began arriving on the island. Despite the lack of consensus on the exact figures, all parties concerned admitted that Turkish nationals began arriving in the northern part of the island in 1975.[150] It was suggested that over 120,000 settlers came to Cyprus from mainland Turkey.[150][dead link] This was a violation of the Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, which prohibits an occupier from transferring or deporting parts of its own civilian population into an occupied territory.[151]
the Turks don't plan on staying, because Turkey is actually held accountable for their actions and can't just bite off chunks of their neighbors without someone doing something about it.
Oh, i don't know about that, i just though thatQuote from: Bafflerthe Turks don't plan on staying, because Turkey is actually held accountable for their actions and can't just bite off chunks of their neighbors without someone doing something about it.
And yeah, Let's wait and see how long will it take Turkey to pull out.
Btw, since Syria invaded Israel, most of the Golan Heights was legally purchased Jewish lands that the Syrians confiscated, Israel need to safeguard the water sources to the sea of galilee, which Syria tried to divert before and since it serves as a geographical buffer to Syrian's aggression, which evidently, saved Israel during Yom Kippur war, i'd say Israel's case is "bit" stronger than Turkey's conquest of Cyprus just because, well, Turkey is known to been doing that for years..
Siezing territory as a buffer against invasion really isn't a good strategy. Even disregarding the ineffectiveness of doing so eventually your border buffer becomes just another part of your state (Unless you DMZ it) so you'd need to inexorably spread outwards to maintain a buffer.Feature, not bug, that last part.
Siezing territory as a buffer against invasion really isn't a good strategy. Even disregarding the ineffectiveness of doing so eventually your border buffer becomes just another part of your state (Unless you DMZ it) so you'd need to inexorably spread outwards to maintain a buffer.
In response to a fake news site reporting which fabricated a quote by Isreali minister of defense Moshe Yaalon that 'Israel will destroy Pakistan withy nuclear fire if they start fighting IS in Syria',
the Pakistani minister of defense Khawaja Asif, thinking it was real news, threatened Israel with full nuclear war.
Israel responded by explaining that the news site was completely fake.
The Pakistani government hasn't responded to that.
And there we were, thinking the Cuba missile crisis was a dangerous thing. Turns out the internet is much more dangerous. It's time to sign a non-proliferation treaty about the internet, and start dismantling it.
I predict spreading false news will be considered a terrorist act, and cause SWAT teams to come and kill the makers within a decade.
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.761146 (http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.761146)
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/26/middleeast/israel-pakistan-fake-news-nuclear/ (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/26/middleeast/israel-pakistan-fake-news-nuclear/)
So you need the settlers to give a justification for your occupation?
Huh? Pull the settlers and keep Area C under military occupation? who's calling for that? that doesn't make any sense.
In response to a fake news site reporting which fabricated a quote by Isreali minister of defense Moshe Yaalon that 'Israel will destroy Pakistan withy nuclear fire if they start fighting IS in Syria',
the Pakistani minister of defense Khawaja Asif, thinking it was real news, threatened Israel with full nuclear war.
Israel responded by explaining that the news site was completely fake.
The Pakistani government hasn't responded to that.
And there we were, thinking the Cuba missile crisis was a dangerous thing. Turns out the internet is much more dangerous. It's time to sign a non-proliferation treaty about the internet, and start dismantling it.
I predict spreading false news will be considered a terrorist act, and cause SWAT teams to come and kill the makers within a decade.
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.761146 (http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.761146)
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/26/middleeast/israel-pakistan-fake-news-nuclear/ (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/26/middleeast/israel-pakistan-fake-news-nuclear/)
Oh hell......
Fake news DID start a war once, the Spanish American war, though it took a concerted effort on the part of newspapers to get the ball rolling.
Although if you want to stretch it a little, you could include the second Gulf war.
My newspaper confirmed now that a New York judge has ruled that refugees are allowed to stay, in defiance of Trump's EO.
tbh russia should join eu
Probably better to have a Newroupe thread, though this certainly could apply to everyone if say, one nation becomes the last member of the EUtbh russia should join euIf the EU falls apart/becomes less relevant, does this become the general Europe thread #2?
There's apparently a bit of the growing warfare problem in Donbass.
[liberal]Obviously this is an attempt to finally conquer Ukraine by Russian government, emboldened by the victory of the pro-Russian tyrant Donald Trump, and solve the "problem of Ukrainians" once and for all[/liberal]
Wouldn't it be a nice opportunity to test the European and/or US airforce against Russian AA installations?The problem is, it would also be also a nice opportunity to test Russian force against EU installations in the Baltic states and Poland, after which it would also be a nice opportunity to test American missiles against Russian strategic targets, and Russian missiles against American strategic targets...
Who says it would escalate? The Russian official line is still 'We're not there, and we're not helping.' They don't exactly have a casus belli there. Hell, they aren't even waging war against Ukraine directly - why would they go after the much, much bigger fish then?This is a direct way to open war between Russia and the West. Letting the DNR/LNR be crushed by NATO forces will seriously complicate the political situation in Russia against Putin - there will be a hell of a lot more refugees, and nationalists will argue that he let NATO stand straight on Russia's southern borders. Furthermore, lack of Russian reaction might tempt NATO to blockade and/or invade Crimea.
Wouldn't it be a nice opportunity to test the European and/or US airforce against Russian AA installations?No that sounds like a terrible idea. Testing Russian response times maybe, but after Turkey, Russians are very jumpy right now
Wouldn't it be a nice opportunity to test the European and/or US airforce against Russian AA installations?That would be a nice opportunity to test Russian AA installations against the European and/or US airforce, yes.
Who says it would escalate? The Russian official line is still 'We're not there, and we're not helping.' They don't exactly have a casus belli there. Hell, they aren't even waging war against Ukraine directly - why would they go after the much, much bigger fish then?Actually, Russian government does have a casus belli against Ukraine, since the spring 2014 - namely, a written letter from Yanukovich with a plea to intervene and depose the "coup government". They just never used it, because that would be a dramatic escalation of an already quite hot situation.
Wouldn't it be a nice opportunity to test the European and/or US airforce against Russian AA installations?That would be a nice opportunity to test Russian AA installations against the European and/or US airforce, yes.Who says it would escalate? The Russian official line is still 'We're not there, and we're not helping.' They don't exactly have a casus belli there. Hell, they aren't even waging war against Ukraine directly - why would they go after the much, much bigger fish then?Actually, Russian government does have a casus belli against Ukraine, since the spring 2014 - namely, a written letter from Yanukovich with a plea to intervene and depose the "coup government". They just never used it, because that would be a dramatic escalation of an already quite hot situation.
Nah, Putin is using the 'Former Soviet sattelite state' causus belli on Ukraine and the other former Soviet vassal states.But I thought Kazakhstan was still independent?
Except that Kazakistan is about as democratic as Russia under Putin, and has a government that is plenty Russian-friendly. Putin is more concentrated on the Caucasus region and Eastern Europe.I think he's more concentrated to take control over as many trade routes in between China and EU as possible. "The one who controls the trade controls the world", yo. Ukraine seems more like a panic attempt to preserve the military status-quo in the region and makes little sense to me.
Except that Kazakistan is about as democratic as Russia under Putin, and has a government that is plenty Russian-friendly. Putin is more concentrated on the Caucasus region and Eastern Europe.I think he's more concentrated to take control over as many trade routes in between China and EU as possible. "The one who controls the trade controls the world", yo. Ukraine seems more like a panic attempt to preserve the military status-quo in the region and makes little sense to me.
Crimea is also actually pretty strategic because it'd be a major Black Sea port, although Russia already has access to the Black Sea.Russia is too poor to afford constructing new military-grade ports. Then again, the economic losses suffered by Russian economy and, by the virtue of budget cuts, by Russian military, probably outweigh those.
E: So, apparently since Belarus has entered a visa-less agreement with 80-some other countries, the border between Russia and Belarus is going to be heavily fortified by FSB (http://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201702011824-7n7i.htm?utm_source=rnews). I wonder if Belarus' KGB is going to do the same on its own end?
He called upon the Senate to "include the dismantling of democratic institutions in Russia" in any new steps taken in regard to US - Russian relations.Aaaaand there's the reason why he was poisoned.
Why? He's basically playing country wide RL Dwarf Fortress, and all you need do is visit the upper boards to work out how fun it is to poison everyone.It's very difficult to poison things in DF intentionally
Will Putin ever stop poisoning people who criticize him
Putin 'poisons' his opponents chances another way... (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38905120) Maybe.Eh, he wouldn't be able to succeed regardless of this. He's too close to the PARNAS and other similar "radical liberal" organizations, and the animosity towards these among Russians is nigh-reflexive at this point.
Givi just asplode (https://themoscowtimes.com/news/pro-russian-guerilla-commander-assassinated-in-ukraine-57076)Lots of media figures in Russia apparently blame Russian government for that, allegedly Russian government is interested in carrying out the Minsk agreements and is thus eliminating all people in DNR/LNR who could oppose their implementation.
Shit about to get spicy
So we can safely rule out suicide, at least?Yeah. I'm sure even if Givi was depressed they wouldn't suicide by asplosion
Such tolerance, much peace (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4201898/Islamic-Peace-Conference-hides-faces-women-flyer.html)
Such tolerance, much peace (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4201898/Islamic-Peace-Conference-hides-faces-women-flyer.html)
Now the question is: if you're not going to show their face, why bothe putting a hijab picture? Anyway, good to see them being called out on that and changing it.
Such tolerance, much peace (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4201898/Islamic-Peace-Conference-hides-faces-women-flyer.html)
Now the question is: if you're not going to show their face, why bothe putting a hijab picture? Anyway, good to see them being called out on that and changing it.
If the statements are accurate, they were actually trying to protect the women, but still....
Shells for Armata are being developed by... Rosatom (http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4003080), Russian nuclear corporation.
This unorthodox choice could indicate that these shells will be involving nuclear materials in some way, most likely - depleted uranium.
Russia's new tank. It's also known by designation "T-14". Is a lot more advanced than other Russian tanks, and among other advantages - can be operated remotely/fully automated, which could be very good with the future AI technology.Shells for Armata are being developed by... Rosatom (http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4003080), Russian nuclear corporation.
This unorthodox choice could indicate that these shells will be involving nuclear materials in some way, most likely - depleted uranium.
What is 'Armata'?
Russia's new tank. It's also known by designation "T-14". Is a lot more advanced than other Russian tanks, and among other advantages - can be operated remotely/fully automated, which could be very good with the future AI technology.Shells for Armata are being developed by... Rosatom (http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4003080), Russian nuclear corporation.
This unorthodox choice could indicate that these shells will be involving nuclear materials in some way, most likely - depleted uranium.
What is 'Armata'?
Staballoy use in tank munitions is nothing particularly new or notable.For the world - probably, for Russia - it's her first time doing that.
Such tolerance, much peace (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4201898/Islamic-Peace-Conference-hides-faces-women-flyer.html)
Staballoy use in tank munitions is nothing particularly new or notable.For the world - probably, for Russia - it's her first time doing that.
In mass production, I mean. DU rounds have never been in mass production in Russia, AFAIK.Staballoy use in tank munitions is nothing particularly new or notable.For the world - probably, for Russia - it's her first time doing that.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/125_mm_smoothbore_ammunition (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/125_mm_smoothbore_ammunition)
It might not be widely publicized like NATO DU use, but Soviet and Russian DU rounds have been a thing since the 80's.
Heck, doesn't the M1 use DU in it's armor too in some fashion? Great density isn't only good for punching trough shit, it's also good for stopping shit from getting punched trough.
And the T14 is years ahead of most western stuff, mostly because it was actually designed and developed in this century a literal new generation of MBT and the west needs to scramble to catch up. Heck, I'm not sure the US is actually even trying as I remember reading a year or so back about the attempts to cut down M1 production so work on a next generation could start, it kinda failed since certain senators with M1 factories in their states insisted that the army needed more of the same, almost 40 year old tank.
The modern M1A2 is hardly the same tank that rolled off the production line in the 80s.
Russia's new tank. It's also known by designation "T-14". Is a lot more advanced than other Russian tanks, and among other advantages - can be operated remotely/fully automated, which could be very good with the future AI technology.
Russia's new tank. It's also known by designation "T-14". Is a lot more advanced than other Russian tanks, and among other advantages - can be operated remotely/fully automated, which could be very good with the future AI technology.
I though only the turret was remotely operated, and from within the tank itself.
Russia will pay off the final debts of the USSR in summer this year, 2017 (http://izvestia.ru/news/665413?utm_medium=source&utm_source=rnews), 26 years since its fall. USSR has apparently took a lot of debt. Interesting.
You call that a lot of debt? Germany only payed off its Versailles reparations a couple years ago.
Pseudoedit: Damn ninjas...
The Armata rolls an unmanned turret, yeah. Russian doctrine is much more ready to use autoloaders than American, as a third order effect of traditional soviet cannibalization/maintenance techniques.
The Armata rolls an unmanned turret, yeah. Russian doctrine is much more ready to use autoloaders than American, as a third order effect of traditional soviet cannibalization/maintenance techniques.
That sounds interesting, could you expand?
Meanwhile, Turkey has been very busy breaching international law, by creating hordes of stateless people.don't worry I'm sure the president will take a strong stance...oh wait its trump...shit.
Any Turk living outside of Turkey who critisizes the Turkish government, will be recalled to Turkey to be trialed as a Gülen supporter. If they do not return to Turkey within 3 months, their Turkish nationality is revoked. Not just Gülen sympatisants are targeted. Kurds, journalists and scientists working abroad have found themselves forced to apply for asylum as a stateless person.
Dutch immigration service reports many work permits turning into asylum requests now.
Putin promises to pull out, nine months later there's a rebirth of guerrilla fighters.
Ukraine has blocked eulogy of Russian ambassador. (https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftass.ru%2Fpolitika%2F4040945%3Futm_source%3Drnews&edit-text=&act=url)
Looks like they don't want to do it.
Ukraine has blocked eulogy of Russian ambassador. (https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftass.ru%2Fpolitika%2F4040945%3Futm_source%3Drnews&edit-text=&act=url)
Looks like they don't want to do it.
Translated page isn't loading for me, though it seems to be from Ukranian to Russian (aren't the two mutually intelligible? Thought they were closely related, but then German and English are closely related but not mutually intelligible. Though there are recognizeable words.) rather than Ukranian or Russian to English.I have no idea why this keeps happening, it should be set to "Russian to English". Maybe I should just always link originals and leave the task of using Google Translate to other people, because this is not the first time this happened.
Pineapple is not a fucking pizza topping. (http://icelandmag.visir.is/article/president-iceland-announces-he-would-ban-pineapple-a-pizza-topping)....
Pineapple is not a fucking pizza topping. (http://icelandmag.visir.is/article/president-iceland-announces-he-would-ban-pineapple-a-pizza-topping)
What a wonderful idea! I might go try and find investors to fund a Kremlin assault theme park in the Hague. With massive snow generators and starvation simulators! I'm sure the German tourists will love it! (/s)
I don't really see anything wrong with children getting to know the best approaches to storm the main building of Nazi Germany government. I mean, it's the Reichstag, its main historical role was to be stormed by Soviet troops and to have a Soviet flag be put on its rooftop to signal the end of the fascist menace.You know the current German parliament meets in the Reichstag, right?
You know the current German parliament meets in the Reichstag, right?What's the problem?
I dunno, I'm just thinking that maybe having your Ministry of Defence get the next generation to re-create the storming of a building that happens to be the house of government for another nation, at a time when relations between you and that nation are rather low... Feels like that might send the wrong message if you're aiming for a peaceful, amiable relationship. Or at least, not planning on storming their parliament anytime soon.Don't see what the big deal is, Russia should be making sure that their future generations don't forget just how much they bled for the right and pride to storm Berlin and crush Nazi Germany. It seems funny to think that this of all things would be an obstacle to a peaceful amiable relationship, the Germans are not petty, and military exercises are not indications of intent, only preparation. This is not a military exercise, this is children being taught their history in more personal terms than pictures: a kick ass playground (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/22/russia-build-reichstag-model-kids-storm-patriotic-theme-park/)
I dunno, I'm just thinking that maybe having your Ministry of Defence get the next generation to re-create the storming of a building that happens to be the house of government for another nation, at a time when relations between you and that nation are rather low... Feels like that might send the wrong message if you're aiming for a peaceful, amiable relationship. Or at least, not planning on storming their parliament anytime soon.And I feel that Germany is sending the wrong message by having the main house of literally the most Nazi government to ever exist be used as a house of their own current government, but I'm not really complaining about that as long as they don't try to insinuate that it doesn't have the kind of historical significance that justifies its use as something to be attacked by any decent people.
I dunno, I'm just thinking that maybe having your Ministry of Defence get the next generation to re-create the storming of a building that happens to be the house of government for another nation, at a time when relations between you and that nation are rather low... Feels like that might send the wrong message if you're aiming for a peaceful, amiable relationship. Or at least, not planning on storming their parliament anytime soon.And I feel that Germany is sending the wrong message by having the main house of literally the most Nazi government to ever exist be used as a house of their own current government, but I'm not really complaining about that as long as they don't try to insinuate that it doesn't have the kind of historical significance that justifies its use as something to be attacked by any decent people.
You know the Reichstag is much older than Nazi Germany, right?Swastika is thousands of years older than Nazi Germany. Does this mean that I can go and wear a T-shirt with a Swastika on it in Germany? Can I bring a couple of Swastika flags with me, too? No? But why, it's much older than Nazi Germany, isn't it? It's historically a symbol of sun and good luck, why does everyone think that I'm a Nazi for wearing Swastikas? I don't understaaaaaaaaaaaand!
Also, I wouldn't call it the main house of the Nazi government, Nazi Germany wasn't that big on Parliamentarism.The fall of Nazi Germany is historically associated with the storming of Reichstag and a Soviet flag soaring on its rooftop. It's maybe not particularly well justified, but... it's a very strong association. An iconic moment. Like that "dumping tea into the sea" thing for Americans, that symbolizes their independence, even though it was IIRC because tea smugglers were losing their profits.
I don't really see anything wrong with children getting to know the best approaches to storm the main building of Nazi Germany government. I mean, it's the Reichstag, its main historical role was to be stormed by Soviet troops and to have a Soviet flag be put on its rooftop to signal the end of the fascist menace.I've been in the Reichstag, and within the Norman Foster dome (yay, British!).
And I feel that Germany is sending the wrong message by having the main house of literally the most Nazi government to ever exist be used as a house of their own current governmentWhat, the Opera House (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kroll_Opera_House) that was demolished in the '50s? How're they doing that? ;)
And the Kremlin is associated with the USSR, the KGB, Stalin, Gulags, etc. Should the Russian government just stop using it? Even though it's older than either the Russian Federation or the Soviet Union? (And, indeed, wasn't even burned-and-rebuilt between the two states like modern Germany and the Nazis)They totally should, there's even a nice white house that they can all move into (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Krasnopresnenskaya_2_01.JPG/800px-Krasnopresnenskaya_2_01.JPG). Kremlin should be open to the people's free movement!
Saying the nazis weren't big on Weimar is a bit like saying that Joe Stalin wasn't big on the TsarsThat doesn't sound right. Everyone on the West is calling Stalin "the Red Tsar". I've read about it on the Internet!
That must be why he wasn't big on them. Couldn't stand for competition. :PSaying the nazis weren't big on Weimar is a bit like saying that Joe Stalin wasn't big on the TsarsThat doesn't sound right. Everyone on the West is calling Stalin "the Red Tsar". I've read about it on the Internet!
But what if Russia just goes around Poland?I dunno, I'm just thinking that maybe having your Ministry of Defence get the next generation to re-create the storming of a building that happens to be the house of government for another nation, at a time when relations between you and that nation are rather low... Feels like that might send the wrong message if you're aiming for a peaceful, amiable relationship. Or at least, not planning on storming their parliament anytime soon.Don't see what the big deal is, Russia should be making sure that their future generations don't forget just how much they bled for the right and pride to storm Berlin and crush Nazi Germany. It seems funny to think that this of all things would be an obstacle to a peaceful amiable relationship, the Germans are not petty, and military exercises are not indications of intent, only preparation. This is not a military exercise, this is children being taught their history in more personal terms than pictures: a kick ass playground (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/22/russia-build-reichstag-model-kids-storm-patriotic-theme-park/)
Moreover it is win win for the Russians. If the Germans get salty because the Russians celebrate storming the Nazis, that is an easy PR victory xD
Besides, one need only see the obvious truth, that in the modern world any attempt to invade Germany by Russia would be bloody, as Germany would be defended to the last Pole
But then you'd be surrounded by Poles.Now you will know why you fear the PLC
But then you'd be surrounded by Poles.Somewhere, Kot's gaze suddenly turns to the East. His eye twitches, ancestors drumming in the skies.
Sergarr, please comment. (http://www.taz.de/!5204116/) Is your state TV really that crazy?I don't know, I haven't really watched Russian TV for like 3+ years, other than, when out of Internet, news broadcasts and Olympics.
E: It's not exactly recent, but I reckon that wasn't exactly an isolated incident...
So, uh, Russian consul dead in Athens, or something?
How many deaths of senior(?) Russian officials in foreign relations capacities in the last few months is that now?
They'd just get replaced by other pro-Putinists, but I guess it'd weaken Russia generally since it's a loss of the experience.No evidence that it( i)s a massive co-inky-dink, or no evidence that it isn't?
There's no evidence to show that it's a massive coincidence, and if anybody knows anything, they certainly aren't telling.
Russian Inquisition incoming (in a decade or two)? (http://www.politico.eu/article/putins-holy-war/) It's also certainly a 180 from the Soviet days.If "walking in Church during prayer while clearly disrespecting it" is "inquisition", then I support said inquisition wholeheartedly. That Bushmakov's guy self-defence is absolute bullshit, he clearly knew that his actions were an insult towards Christians, he doesn't get to pull "oh but there's no clear definition, how can anyone possibly know". Churches are private places, and people go there for a certain spiritual kind of environment, environment that this smartphone-wielder has decided to ruin specifically after he was already told that doing so is against the law.
PREEDIT: Thing is, if you look at the beginning, there's one example where the law's enforced in an oppressive way. They opposed the construction of a church on a greenspace, QED they were offending the religious.If you were reading it right, you might have noticed that it wasn't actually enforced in that particular case, they were raided by police, and they weren't even physically injured or anything.
For Russia territory — fetish. Because Moscow has never had nothing, except size, to prove its "greatness".And those people are reporting a story about a GTA-style shootout in the capital of the fucking country. Ouch.
Vitaliy Portnikov
It's always cute to see someone not realize that it's normal in the free world (tm) for media to post stories of bad stuff happening at home.Drunk citizen of St. Petersburg has threatened an ambulance paramedic with murder. (https://ria.ru/incidents/20170303/1489231801.html) First page of "accident" heading on one of the biggest news sites in Russia. #debunked
MOSCOW (AP) -- A Russian lawmaker has proposed an unorthodox solution to the country's problems with soccer hooliganism ahead of next year's World Cup - legalize it and make it a spectator sport.Some footage of how a typical fight between Russian football fans looks like (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUaTPphyIkI). It totally has potential to become a national sport; and we would be able to show those English wankers their place, too!
...
That inspired Igor Lebedev, who sits in the Russian parliament, to draw up rules for what he calls "draka," the Russian word for "fight" - 20 fighters on each side, unarmed, in an arena.
In a statement on the website of the nationalist LDPR party, Lebedev said organized brawls "could turn fans' aggression in a peaceful direction." He also claimed it would serve as an "example" for English fans, who he characterized as undisciplined louts and poor fighters.
"Russia would be a pioneer in a new sport," said Lebedev, who also suggested fights between different fan groups could draw crowds of thousands. "English fans arrive, for example, and start picking fights. And they get the answer - challenge accepted. A meeting in a stadium at a set time."
So, I've accidentally stumbled on a "source" (https://vpk.name/library/f/armata.html) of slightly questionable veracity which describes something a bit more advanced than "fly-by-wire":
Russia's new tank. It's also known by designation "T-14". Is a lot more advanced than other Russian tanks, and among other advantages - can be operated remotely/fully automated, which could be very good with the future AI technology.
I though only the turret was remotely operated, and from within the tank itself.
That's like calling a plane that is flown by fly-by-wire remotely operated even though the pilot is the one doing the controls and inside the plane.
In T-14 "Armata" on an initial stage of design has been implemented a capability of remote control. Also, tank T-14 has a very serious potential for modernization to transition to a fully robotized tank. Main obstacle to achieve full robotization at the moment of creation of test vehicles are not the technical obstacles of tank's production, but absence of developed mathematical software of artificial intelligence.So, it can be driven around remotely, like an RC car.
Nevertheless, in tank "Armata" there is a capability of remote control for independent evacuation of the tank in case of loss of ability to control the vehicle by the crew.
Apparently there's some minor controversy currently going on in Russian Duma, after Zhirinovsky, leader of the Liberal-Democratic Party of Russia, has called some of the "United Russia" (Putin's party) deputies as "sellouts" and said that after the results of Presidential elections he will "ride into Kremlin" and will "shoot and hang" the opponents (https://news.rambler.ru/video/36336747-zhirinovskiy-potreboval-izvineniy-ot-pushkinoy/).
Apparently there's some minor controversy currently going on in Russian Duma, after Zhirinovsky, leader of the Liberal-Democratic Party of Russia, has called some of the "United Russia" (Putin's party) deputies as "sellouts" and said that after the results of Presidential elections he will "ride into Kremlin" and will "shoot and hang" the opponents (https://news.rambler.ru/video/36336747-zhirinovskiy-potreboval-izvineniy-ot-pushkinoy/).
In turn, the leadership of the lower house of parliament insists that Zhirinovsky himself apologizes for saying about plans to shoot his opponents. "Sometimes it is necessary to apologize for the reason that any politician can make any statements, but not in a boorish form", - quotes "Interfax" Duma Vice-Speaker Peter Tolstoy.Cas banter
A statement from the LDPR faction's press service explains that Pushkin began to express dissatisfaction when Zhirinovsky from the rostrum paid attention to "some peculiarities of conducting elections in some districts of the Moscow region" (Pushkina was elected in a single-mandate district from Odintsovo district of the Moscow region - note "Lentee.ru" "). "Do you see what" United Russia "is doing? They are bribed deputies, "retorted the leader of the Liberal Democrats and added that he would" drive to the Kremlin "in the presidential elections and" shoot and hang "opponents.
How democratic of him :vAnd Liberal!
Apparently there's some minor controversy currently going on in Russian Duma, after Zhirinovsky, leader of the Liberal-Democratic Party of Russia, has called some of the "United Russia" (Putin's party) deputies as "sellouts" and said that after the results of Presidential elections he will "ride into Kremlin" and will "shoot and hang" the opponents (https://news.rambler.ru/video/36336747-zhirinovskiy-potreboval-izvineniy-ot-pushkinoy/).
Apparently there's some minor controversy currently going on in Russian Duma, after Zhirinovsky, leader of the Liberal-Democratic Party of Russia, has called some of the "United Russia" (Putin's party) deputies as "sellouts" and said that after the results of Presidential elections he will "ride into Kremlin" and will "shoot and hang" the opponents (https://news.rambler.ru/video/36336747-zhirinovskiy-potreboval-izvineniy-ot-pushkinoy/).
He's sort of a Russian version of Trump but marginally crazier and marginally less stupid.
He said he had left Russia because security agencies were persecuting him and had given a number of interviews in which he was sharply critical of Vladimir Putin.Oh, that. Yeah there's a fair chance this was an assassination
There's a fair chance it was Kremlin. I imagine too, if Kremlin did it, there would be few links to Kremlin
It's a shame we don't have UR or someone to gauge the credibility of this shooting. I guess a simple thing to be asked would be what would Putin gain from killing this guy?QuoteHe said he had left Russia because security agencies were persecuting him and had given a number of interviews in which he was sharply critical of Vladimir Putin.Oh, that. Yeah there's a fair chance this was an assassination
AP has a picture of the guys freaking dead body, not sure how much more credible you get than that.Eh what
But yes, given the Kremlins history of assassinating or otherwise removing anybody influential or potentially influential that is critical of Putin and that they can get at, it's pretty much auto-guilty until proven otherwise for Russia.
Meanwhile in Ukraine, an ammunition depot near Kharkov has exploded the other day. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpwEZ_9VLD8)
Ukrainian officials are blaming you-know-who for this disaster.
McCarthy: The man who cried Commie?AP has a picture of the guys freaking dead body, not sure how much more credible you get than that.Eh what
But yes, given the Kremlins history of assassinating or otherwise removing anybody influential or potentially influential that is critical of Putin and that they can get at, it's pretty much auto-guilty until proven otherwise for Russia.
If we assume Russia is auto-guilty based on a history of being guilty, then Russia will always have a history of assassinating people who may have died by coincidence
Just cos it's probably Russia doesn't mean we should swagger about giving auto-verdicts and shit, consensus has consequences. Has the danger of causing a situation similar to the boy who cried wolf
Apparently some senior Russian citizens are not getting pensions this year (https://news.rambler.ru/business/36495645-v-rossii-nachali-otkazyvat-v-pensii-po-starosti-iz-za-nehvatki-ballov/) , due to not having enough "pension points", the requirement for which seems to be rising extremely rapidly with each passing year.
Looks like the Russian solution to the problem of aging population will be "let them die off in poverty". Brutal.
It's a question that's pretty hard to answer, because it's a fairly recent "innovation". Basically, it's something you get for either working on a legal job (i.e. with job giver making payments to social security analogue), or by being a businessman. The conversion coefficient, however, is kind of shitty, and a lot of people don't work legal jobs here (for simple economical reasons), so many people are probably going to get fucked.Apparently some senior Russian citizens are not getting pensions this year (https://news.rambler.ru/business/36495645-v-rossii-nachali-otkazyvat-v-pensii-po-starosti-iz-za-nehvatki-ballov/) , due to not having enough "pension points", the requirement for which seems to be rising extremely rapidly with each passing year.
Looks like the Russian solution to the problem of aging population will be "let them die off in poverty". Brutal.
Pardon me, but, what the heck are 'pension points'? Unless you meant 'money in the coffers'.
There have been two explosions in the St. Petersburg metro (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39481770), at least 10 people dead.Welp, it seems that ISIS has got one through. Sure took them a while, though.
There have been two explosions in the St. Petersburg metro (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39481770), at least 10 people dead.Welp, it seems that ISIS has got one through. Sure took them a while, though.
It's most likely ISIS (or at least a lone wolf who pledged to ISIS), yeah, but it's too soon to have confirmed that, which is what I meant.Though even if they claim it, that doesn't exactly mean they were actually behind it. More than one terrorist group that likes to do that, since being attributed with the act helps them regardless as to the veracity of the attribution. Without more information, the "who" could be just about anyone, for all something organized is more likely. It's not exactly unknown for someone random to blow something up, and organized terrorist/criminal groups and those they support don't have a monopoly on the ability to construct explosives.
If not ISIS, then who? The only realistic alternative are the unvanquished remnants of Chechen "freedom fighters", but the last one from them was 4 years ago.
International organisations have called upon Russia to stop torturing Chechen gays. A Russian newspaper reported earlier this month, that hundreds of men were arrested by the police under suspicion of homosexuality. Part of them were tortured, at least 3 were murdered.You forgot the part where the gays are put into concentration camps, first concentration camps in Europe for LGBT people since Hitler.
The CHechen authorities deny the incident. The CHechen government has issued a statement which declares that it is impossible, because there are no gays in the CHechen reupblic. "No one can arrest someone that simply does not exist".
According to the Russian newspaper Novaya Gazeta, the authorities have secret black site prisons, were homosexual men are locked away and tortured.
The United Nations says in a statement, that the Russian government has to end the prosecution of people that are regarded as homosexual or bisexual. According to the UN, those live in a climate of fear, fed by homophobic speeches of local authorities.
Europe, as well, calls for action. The human rights division of OSCE says that 'Russia needs to urgently investigate the disappearance, torture, and other abuse of homosexual men in Chechen.
In London, hundreds of people protested outside the Russian embassy, waving rainbow flags.
You forgot the part where the gays are put into concentration camps, first concentration camps in Europe for LGBT people since Hitler.
Yes is at 51.31% as of the time I'm posting thisAlmost an overwhelming majority, that... And then there's the millions of fraudulent contrary votes that will have to be discounted.
Heh, 70% of Dutch Turks apparently voted YES. Contrast that to the UK, where 80% of the English Turks voted NO.
To be a bit fair, the change didn't make Erdogan a dictator yet. It gives him about the same power as the US president. Then again, it could be argued that the US is a dictatorship as well.
Apparently 75% yes in Belgium too. I guess it's related to origin of migrants: the Turks of Belgium and Netherlands who mostly came in guest-worker scheme are mostly from the Anatolia region which are staunchly pro-Erdogan. I guess the UK Turks are more recent immigrants from the cities.Far from recent, the Turkish community in the UK is old, dates back centuries from when the English allied with/freed imprisoned Turks from Spanish rivals. The next big wave would come from the secular reformers, many of whom tried to reform the Ottoman Empire and were trained or educated mainly in Paris or London, and would take refuge in London over the course of the world war. The largest wave so far came mainly from Cyprus with loads of Turkish Cypriots, while the later mainland Anatolian Turks arriving tended to be students or highly educated professionals - not exactly the kinds of people appealed by the death of academic freedom
Apparently 75% yes in Belgium too. I guess it's related to origin of migrants: the Turks of Belgium and Netherlands who mostly came in guest-worker scheme are mostly from the Anatolia region which are staunchly pro-Erdogan. I guess the UK Turks are more recent immigrants from the cities.Far from recent, the Turkish community in the UK is old, dates back centuries from when the English allied with/freed imprisoned Turks from Spanish rivals. The next big wave would come from the secular reformers, many of whom tried to reform the Ottoman Empire and were trained or educated mainly in Paris or London, and would take refuge in London over the course of the world war. The largest wave so far came mainly from Cyprus with loads of Turkish Cypriots, while the later mainland Anatolian Turks arriving tended to be students or highly educated professionals - not exactly the kinds of people appealed by the death of academic freedom
In general political refugees from any country tend to be well educated middle class folk who see the writing on the wall and use their wealth and knowledge to break for greener pastures, despite what stereotypes would have you believe. If you could see your country was going to hell, you'd probably cut and run too.Off-topic (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-39590751) but (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39613888) related (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39609927)..? ;)
“We support anyone who wants to help us advance the reconciliation process, but anyone who arms belligerents ... is not the best way forward to a peaceful reconciliation.”
“Any weapons being funneled here from a foreign country would be a violation of international law unless they were coming to the government of Afghanistan”
Turkey purges another 4000 people.its fiiiiiine, Turkey says their not a dictatorship so they are obviously not! why would they lie to us? I'm sure everyone they are purging deserves it. /s
Who thought simply labeling the opposition as a terrorist group would be so effective?
Well, since the EU agrees that Saudi-Arabia is not a dictatorship, Turkey can clearly not be considered one by any means.
Well, since the EU agrees that Saudi-Arabia is not a dictatorship, Turkey can clearly not be considered one by any means.
That's because Saudi Arabia is a Monarchy, though an absolute one.
Well, since the EU agrees that Saudi-Arabia is not a dictatorship, Turkey can clearly not be considered one by any means.Sauce? I find it hard to believe any country or institution in the West claims such a thing...
Uh, since when are absolute monarchies not dictatorships?Oh dear christ.
Uh, since when are absolute monarchies not dictatorships?Oh dear christ.
Don't mix terms like this. Monarchies are just not dictatorships. This is how it's worked since Rome, which had Dictators AND Kings/Emperors, and they were mutually exclusive. If you want an exact reason, it's because monarchies and dictatorships are very different, both in terms of how they are run and how they legitimize themselves. For example, you'll never see a 10-year-old dictator, or at least not for very long, while such a thing is standard in a monarchy. Moreover dictatorships legitimize themselves in all sorts of ways, and can be wedded to a number of ideologies (right-wing, left-wing, communist, neutral, benevolent, fascist, etc), while Monarchy is wedded to a very singular vision of the world where the King is the rightful sovereign ruler of the nation, by hereditary (and usually divine) right.
Well, since the EU agrees that Saudi-Arabia is not a dictatorship, Turkey can clearly not be considered one by any means.Sauce? I find it hard to believe any country or institution in the West claims such a thing...
I mean everyone humors them, but claiming the sky is green is something else altogether
Well, since the EU agrees that Saudi-Arabia is not a dictatorship, Turkey can clearly not be considered one by any means.
That's because Saudi Arabia is a Monarchy, though an absolute one.
Yes, one could be a dictatorial or tyrannical monarch. However, like antioch, semantic arguments are boring.
Yes, one could be a dictatorial or tyrannical monarch. However, like antioch, semantic arguments are boring.
I don't find Antioch especially boring.
Well, since the EU agrees that Saudi-Arabia is not a dictatorship, Turkey can clearly not be considered one by any means.Sauce? I find it hard to believe any country or institution in the West claims such a thing...
I mean everyone humors them, but claiming the sky is green is something else altogether
I am referring to when Saudi-Arabia threatened trade sanctions on Sweden because the Swedish state minister (or maybe foreign minister) called them what they are, and the EU, our trade union, let said threat go unopposed so it ended with the Swedish government having to apologise. So it goes to stand that it must be the EU's position that Saudi-Arabia is not a dictatorship.
This article seems to contain most of the developments. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/03/20/sweden-stood-up-for-human-rights-in-saudi-arabia-this-is-how-saudi-arabia-is-punishing-sweden/?utm_term=.0db57f0e499f)
A reminder that, according to the former British general Sir Alexander Richard Shirreff, deputy supreme allied commander Europe from 2011 to 2014, the war with Russia is to be started in this month. (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/18/west-russia-on-course-for-war-nato-ex-deputy-commander)STFU. We all know that you're Putin's mole. We wont let your plans to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids come to fruition.
Given the complete lack of any special war tensions, I think it's safe to assume that we now know why he's a former "deputy supreme allied commander Europe", but for the sake of clarity, I'll wait until the end of May on my evaluation of British military staff's quality.
A reminder that, according to the former British general Sir Alexander Richard Shirreff, deputy supreme allied commander Europe from 2011 to 2014, the war with Russia is to be started in this month. (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/18/west-russia-on-course-for-war-nato-ex-deputy-commander)
Given the complete lack of any special war tensions, I think it's safe to assume that we now know why he's a former "deputy supreme allied commander Europe", but for the sake of clarity, I'll wait until the end of May on my evaluation of British military staff's quality.
At the book launch at London’s Royal United Services Institute, he heavily caveated the scenario by saying it was still avoidable provided Nato took the necessary steps to pre-position forces in large enough numbers in the Baltic states. Nato is planning to make a start on just such a move at a Nato summit in Warsaw in July.
I love how it says nothing about Bulgaria.Bulgars! That's all they need!!
Battalion and 250 tanks have a lot of space between them.
Battalion and 250 tanks have a lot of space between them.
does it mean "250 tanks + ??? ifvs + ??? howitzers" or does it mean "250 tanks, ifvs, and howitzers"
Ministry of Justice officials told Amnesty International that dismissals were carried out on the basis of conduct which, while not necessarily constituting a criminal act, did involve a concrete “incriminating” action by an individual evidencing a link to a “terrorist” organization. The Ministry of Justice officials provided Amnesty International with the following two examples of why individuals were dismissed: firstly, if they cancelled a Digitürk satellite television provider subscription following a call for cancellations from what the authorities refer to as “FETÖ” via the Fethullah Gülen Hocaefendi'nin haftal?k sohbetleri. website due to the removal of Gülen linked channels from the network in October 2015.17
Secondly, following a call to do so on the herkul website, putting money into Bank Asya, after sanctions were imposed against it as part of an investigation into its links with the Gülen movement.18 The Ministry of Justice did not provide any other justifications based on the actions of individuals for the thousands of dismissals to Amnesty International and has not done so publicly, or even to any of those affected.
Well, it's something of an improvement on what I thought (which is damned by faint praise if there ever was an instance of it). I thought the purges were practically random.
The sneaky way of building a European Army. (https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/22/germany-is-quietly-building-a-european-army-under-its-command/) Maybe this'll be the start of institutionalized European armed forces.
Or it could lead to a Athens vs Sparta situation. Who knows.
One bizarre thing (actually everything about the story is bizarre) is that that those people already cancelled their tv subscription in october 2015, before the Gullen association was even placed on the list of terrorist groups.Thus proving their insidious guilt, obviously...
Actually I'd been hoping we'd be Athens for once...The sneaky way of building a European Army. (https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/22/germany-is-quietly-building-a-european-army-under-its-command/) Maybe this'll be the start of institutionalized European armed forces.
Or it could lead to a Athens vs Sparta situation. Who knows.
Germans start walking around in fur underwears again?
The sneaky way of building a European Army. (https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/22/germany-is-quietly-building-a-european-army-under-its-command/) Maybe this'll be the start of institutionalized European armed forces.I wouldn't really call it sneaky since everyone's been noticing Germany building this army for quite some time now
Or it could lead to a Athens vs Sparta situation. Who knows.
European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker has repeatedly floated the idea of an EU army, only to be met with either ridicule or awkward silence. That remains the case even as the U.K., a perennial foe of the idea, is on its way out of the union.ayy lmao
An assist from junior partners may be Germany’s best shot at bulking out its military quickly — and German-led miniarmiesMiniarmies is an adorable phrase, and that's really suspicious. It's like the naming of the battle-tank, spies who first heard of it thought the British were building loads of water or oil storage tanks until they saw the first prototypes rolling over the trenches. Weaponized cuteness
That seems rather self-defeating, considering Athens lost, but whatever floats your boat. :PAthens lost the war, but Spartan civilization crumbled under victory
Yes, but do we really want to rely on the possibility of successive bigger fish with undue affection for Athenian society coming along and squishing all of the European nations while forming a hegemonic state centuries in the future? I mean, without Romans and later (especially from a modern perspective) Victorian-era philhellenes, we end up with a series of indecisive wars with the Macedons being the ultimate victors, and...hmm, this metaphor could actually go places. Probably not good or reasonable places, but places. If Europe comprises the Greek polis, then we'll end up going through a wars with a tripartite power base between Thebes, Athens, and Sparta, until ultimately a neighboring, questionably-accepted-as-That seems rather self-defeating, considering Athens lost, but whatever floats your boat. :PAthens lost the war, but Spartan civilization crumbled under victory
As long as Germany doesn't forget that France needs to be convinced of the worth of this, this can work well. If they keep ignoring France they will embark on another collision course with France, UK, Russia and the USA all over again. USA, UK & France are supportive of Germany regrowing her military muscle, indeed encouraging her to stop cutting her defence budget and try meet the 2% mark, but understandably they will be unnerved by German military unilateralism. Russia will oppose this always again for obvious reasons, but with a supportive France they wouldn't try anything.Ah, but this is the opposite of unilateralism! Maybe, maaaybe this will generate sufficient positive experiences for France to commit to true military multilateralism, and we'll get a unified Continental army that way.
Ah, but this is the opposite of unilateralism! Maybe, maaaybe this will generate sufficient positive experiences for France to commit to true military multilateralism, and we'll get a unified Continental army that way.
Romania’s entire military won’t join the Bundeswehr, nor will the Czech armed forces become a mere German subdivision. But in the next several months each country will integrate one brigade into the German armed forces: Romania’s 81st Mechanized Brigade will join the Bundeswehr’s Rapid Response Forces Division, while the Czech 4th Rapid Deployment Brigade, which has served in Afghanistan and Kosovo and is considered the Czech Army’s spearhead force, will become part of the Germans’ 10th Armored Division. In doing so, they’ll follow in the footsteps of two Dutch brigades, one of which has already joined the Bundeswehr’s Rapid Response Forces Division and another that has been integrated into the Bundeswehr’s 1st Armored Division. According to Carlo Masala, a professor of international politics at the University of the Bundeswehr in Munich, “The German government is showing that it’s willing to proceed with European military integration” — even if others on the continent aren’t yet.This is very much not the opposite of multilateralism, this is German military unilateralism - Germany gets to assume command of the armed forces of its weaker neighbours, making them pay for it, increasing the power of Germany at no cost to Germany. Thus NATO has not been made any stronger to the benefit of all its members, Germany alone has been made stronger and Germany has not had to increase its defence budget at all. This is the difference between joint military exercises and training, versus absorbing a weaker nation's military units into yours. The informal precedence it is setting is that in the event of a unified European army, France will be surrendering her forces to Germany - which is not going to help Germany's case, no matter how much it tries to convince it of its fake multilateralism.
We'll integrate the British forces once you guys come crawling back in a decade or two.Such behaviour would turn allied suspicions into hostility, and is generally inadvisable. The United Kingdom's euroscepticism was severely stoked by the ambitious diplomatic misstep of proposing any control of British forces without regard to British opposition. Any such attempt would be the prelude to the third world war, which is rather unnecessary. Why seek a collision course with the allies, why turn friends who support your remilitiarization into enemies who oppose it? Least of all when their military-industrial capabilities are far superior, the Germans should know best of all the risk of starting wars when a war started at will cannot be ended at will. Form the army through the EU with France alongside, and Brussels will possess the economy and the military foundation to establish an armed forces that could one day become world-hegemonic, and with it will come an immense responsibility and caution, given Europe's formidable internal and external security threats. Picking fights with friends is a quick way to lead to unnecessary overextension, attempting to rush integration without French cooperation with severe impatience will breed considerable backlash. Reading Germany's history is interesting, especially from the crucial moment it went from being an odd patchwork of 50 princedoms disregarded by the GPs to the most powerful nation in Europe. Such a rise was miraculous, and completely undone in the future years of weltpolitik - as it turns out, attempting to overcome the most powerful land army, the 3rd most powerful land army, the most powerful navy and the most powerful economic force at the same time is a poor life choice, especially when some of those powers wished for friendly relations ;]
Except both nations need to agree to deploy the integrated units.If both were integrated into a continental military, which would be pleasing to German federalists and acceptable to the French, then command would be in the hands of a single European HQ which would decide upon deployments. Neither wholly German nor French, this HQ would not arouse indignance or anger, at least in theory, to the deployment of troops from either. It would also by consequence, herald the European Union not as nations, but as a continental state - an interesting development no doubt, whatever your opinion on such a thing.
Which, granted, you could argue that Germany could soft-power strong-arm them into agreeing. But in that case, what's different than now? Germany could just as easily strong-arm the nation into deploying its army whereever it wanted them to, so integrating them doesn't change much there.
So far, the low-profile and ad hoc approach of the Framework Nations Concept has worked to its advantage; few people in Europe have objected to the integration of Dutch or Romanian units into German divisions, partly because they may not have noticed. Whether there will be political repercussions should more nations sign up to the initiative is less clear.The most obvious difference is in public reaction, this would be the sneakiness referenced earlier :P
What is this EU stuff doing in a non-EU thread? You already have your own, go there, Union imperialists!
LW: You overlook that with smaller nations taking over specialized roles, the German army will no longer maintain these capacities - thus making Germany unable to wage war without the consent of its neighbors. That's the beauty of the whole thing - conflict becomes impossible when your forces are inseparable.
Not surprising, given what he already did to the military. Turkey is sliding full-on towards the Middle Eastern shithole, and that means that all competency must be purged.What is this EU stuff doing in a non-EU thread? You already have your own, go there, Union imperialists!
Yeah! I wanted to discuss Amnesty international's report on the people purged in Turkey.
Not surprising, given what he already did to the military. Turkey is sliding full-on towards the Middle Eastern shithole, and that means that all competency must be purged.What is this EU stuff doing in a non-EU thread? You already have your own, go there, Union imperialists!
Yeah! I wanted to discuss Amnesty international's report on the people purged in Turkey.
In Turkey, the director of Amnesty International has been arrested on grounds of supposed ties to Gülen. Amnesty Internation is outraged.
*ReportIn Turkey, the director of Amnesty International has been arrested on grounds of supposed ties to Gülen. Amnesty Internation is outraged.
Remember that Amnesty International released a rapport concerning the purges in Turkey a couple of weeks ago.
And that doesn't seem suspicious at all. Nah. It's not like Turkey's been going and arresting anyone that criticises it or anything. Not authoritarian in any way whatsoever.
Iran's Foreign Ministry condemned the attack and compared it to an attack on Mirjaveh, which occurred about a month prior, stating: "It is advisable that all the countries that have been victims of the extremist ideology and Takfiri terrorism get united and confront it in a serious, sincere and purposeful manner."
Celerino Castillo, a Senior Drug Enforcement Administration special agent who worked alongside Steele in El Salvador, says: "I first heard about Colonel James Steele going to Iraq and I said they're going to implement what is known as the Salvadoran Option in Iraq and that's exactly what happened. And I was devastated because I knew the atrocities that were going to occur in Iraq which we knew had occurred in El Salvador."
I mean, not all of the Iranian leadership was classy after Manchester.
(https://image.prntscr.com/image/6e65922828784344ba5ca7f8825553f8.png)
Who cares about people who protest against their homes being demolished?The Turks? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gezi_Park_protests)
See that? That was a march in May 14, against a mayor's building demolition initiative. About 20000 people have taken part in it. Pre-arranged with the local administration. And I'm almost sure you haven't even heard of its existence. It wasn't organized by the Western-backed opposition, after all.The lesson here seems to be "protests that obey and follow rules are ignored, those that aren't, aren't." Is this surprising to you?
Who cares about people who protest against their homes being demolished? The Western audience could care less about where the Russians live, they need entertainment, and Navalniy provides one, by feeding into the oh-so-heroic narrative of "noble advocates of freedom getting brutally suppressed by the evil tyrannical regime".
The point is that the Navalniy's protests are utterly useless from any standpoint of actually having any real change in Russia, because he's supported by, like 2% of Russians. Actually, the most recent polls put him at 1% (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_Russian_presidential_election,_2018), below almost every other possible Presidential candidate in Russia. They're ignored, completely ignored by most people in Russia, and those who do pay attention to them do so from an overwhelmingly negative standpoint and are likely to do the complete opposite from what Navalniy pushes for, just to spite him.
On March 26, 2017, protests against alleged corruption in the federal Russian government took place simultaneously in many cities across the country. They were triggered by the lack of proper response from the Russian authorities to the published investigative film He Is Not Dimon To You by Alexei Navalny, which has garnered more than 20 million views on YouTube. The Levada Center survey showed that 38% of surveyed Russians supported protests and that 67 percent held Putin personally responsible for high-level corruption.[1] A new wave of mass protests has been announced for June 12, 2017.
The Levada Center also conducted another survey, which was released on the April 6, 2017, showing Navalny's recognition among the Russian population at 55%. Out of those who recognized Navalny, 18% would either "definitely" or "probably" vote for him in the presidential election.
If he was a target of real persecution, he would long be dead in a ditch, killed by a "random drunk", or had a sudden fatal ricin-induced heart attack. He's still alive, that means he's politically inconsequential. I don't know where did they get that 10%, when the polling clearly shows that Navalniy polls at 1 percent.The point is that the Navalniy's protests are utterly useless from any standpoint of actually having any real change in Russia, because he's supported by, like 2% of Russians. Actually, the most recent polls put him at 1% (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_Russian_presidential_election,_2018), below almost every other possible Presidential candidate in Russia. They're ignored, completely ignored by most people in Russia, and those who do pay attention to them do so from an overwhelmingly negative standpoint and are likely to do the complete opposite from what Navalniy pushes for, just to spite him.
Quoting from the page you linked:QuoteOn March 26, 2017, protests against alleged corruption in the federal Russian government took place simultaneously in many cities across the country. They were triggered by the lack of proper response from the Russian authorities to the published investigative film He Is Not Dimon To You by Alexei Navalny, which has garnered more than 20 million views on YouTube. The Levada Center survey showed that 38% of surveyed Russians supported protests and that 67 percent held Putin personally responsible for high-level corruption.[1] A new wave of mass protests has been announced for June 12, 2017.
The Levada Center also conducted another survey, which was released on the April 6, 2017, showing Navalny's recognition among the Russian population at 55%. Out of those who recognized Navalny, 18% would either "definitely" or "probably" vote for him in the presidential election.
My calculations show 18% of 55% to be 10%. Not a huge number but enough for Navalniy to be number 2 candidate...
In my part of the world the media is very biased to the current leadership, perhaps it is the same elsewhere?
Anyway, I don't really know much about this but I do not understand why there would be so much ongoing persecution of a person of no political consequence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny) makes for interesting reading. ;)
Sergarr, sometimes you make me think there's some kind of system in Russia, where posting independant critical posts on foreign forums is an offense punishable by a choice between eitherIf you want pure independent criticism of the government, go ask CrocAndBearLover, he's very proficient at that.
A) a few years Siberia
B) redeem your sins by posting 1000 times the amount of characters used in the offending post, as fake news or Putin Kool-Aid
:D
He's still alive, that means he's politically inconsequential.
Been trying so hard not to say this:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
More seriously is that what the 'brilliant green' was?
Been trying so hard not to say this:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
More seriously is that what the 'brilliant green' was?
If you want pure independent criticism of the government, go ask CrocAndBearLover, he's very proficient at that.
it actually had stable economy
Quoteit actually had stable economy
Wait? It did?
Not a "Deceptively weak economy" like say Argentina has had?
Anyhow I think what you mean was that the USSR's economy was more diversified than Russia's
Maybe USSR didn't have stable economy, but it produced other stuff outside of petrol and raw resources. The only economy which is worse than Russian is Somalian economy...>_<
Also, while this thread was inactive, Ukraine got visa-free travel with the EU. Which the absolute majority of Ukrainians can't do, because the abysmal economic situation means few people can afford to have the minimum sum of money required for entry (http://travel.europewb.org.ua/karta-yevropy/).
So I'm confused, if there's Visa-free travel, can't they just merrily cross the border whilst showing their passport? I mean, I've never had to deal with passport control (I show my German passport when I enter the EU, and my American one when I enter the US, and I've never been anywhere but the EU or US), but my understanding is if a country has visa-free travel, they don't check anything about your income or whatever. Am I wrong?Just because it has a name "visa-free travel", doesn't mean that there aren't any other conditions. Just like with Ukraine-EU free trade agreement, with the ridiculously small quotas that end up being used within the first few weeks of the year. Very "free trade", much EU protectionism.
So I'm confused, if there's Visa-free travel, can't they just merrily cross the border whilst showing their passport? I mean, I've never had to deal with passport control (I show my German passport when I enter the EU, and my American one when I enter the US, and I've never been anywhere but the EU or US), but my understanding is if a country has visa-free travel, they don't check anything about your income or whatever. Am I wrong?You are wrong. There are rules for entering EU that include "assessment of sufficient means of subsistence" Google Schengen border code, article 5.
How is it enforced, though? I'm not challenging you, by the way. Just not aware of how it works.
This. Border guards, under this "visa-free travel" agreement, have a lot of power to arbitrary deny entry to people.So I'm confused, if there's Visa-free travel, can't they just merrily cross the border whilst showing their passport? I mean, I've never had to deal with passport control (I show my German passport when I enter the EU, and my American one when I enter the US, and I've never been anywhere but the EU or US), but my understanding is if a country has visa-free travel, they don't check anything about your income or whatever. Am I wrong?You are wrong. There are rules for entering EU that include "assessment of sufficient means of subsistence" Google Schengen border code, article 5.
The only difference between Visa and Visa-free here that in the first case you must provide proofs when applying for Visa and in the second case you need to show that to border control if asked and usually they don't bother to check especially if it is not your first visit to EU.
And they use this power and demand bribes. Oh, wait, they are not Russian border guards. They usually don't arbitrary deny entry to people.
This. Border guards, under this "visa-free travel" agreement, have a lot of power to arbitrary deny entry to people.
How is it enforced, though? I'm not challenging you, by the way. Just not aware of how it works.This. Border guards, under this "visa-free travel" agreement, have a lot of power to arbitrary deny entry to people.So I'm confused, if there's Visa-free travel, can't they just merrily cross the border whilst showing their passport? I mean, I've never had to deal with passport control (I show my German passport when I enter the EU, and my American one when I enter the US, and I've never been anywhere but the EU or US), but my understanding is if a country has visa-free travel, they don't check anything about your income or whatever. Am I wrong?You are wrong. There are rules for entering EU that include "assessment of sufficient means of subsistence" Google Schengen border code, article 5.
The only difference between Visa and Visa-free here that in the first case you must provide proofs when applying for Visa and in the second case you need to show that to border control if asked and usually they don't bother to check especially if it is not your first visit to EU.
Meanwhile in Turkey, Erdogan's government has presented a new curriculum for the Turkey's highschools.Lmao we're fucked
Highlights:
- Evolution theory is removed from the curriculum. Students will not be taught about it until university. The government's reason given is that evolution theory is 'too difficult and complex' for kids at highschool age.
- schools need to teach children that 'jihad' isn't bad, instead it's an act of love for one's homeland.
Nah, Erdogan's an Islamist but not a Wahhabi. Just the opposite, he seems to be all about grand mosques and the like, which are the kind of thing ISIS have been going around blowing up for the past few years. ISIS are iconoclasts.The first worry that arises from this is that your comforting clarification is not... Entirely accurate. They are iconoclasts in so far as they're willing to level churches, graveyards, museums and town ruins, but when it comes to great mosques under their control they are unconcerned - they declared their claim to Caliphate within a great mosque, destroying it only when Iraqi security forces overpowered them. Elsewhere, the mosques they targeted were under the control of government forces. Worse still, it is of greater threat that Turkey is becoming increasingly Islamist and the fact that Turkey remains neutral to ISIS is of no consolation when ISIS is a dying organization, the future of their successors however retains an even worse possibility of second global jihad. All those former ISIS fighters aren't just going to disband their cells and units, they're just going to reorganize under new black flags.
He might well try to direct ISIS towards Rojava, but I have a hard time believing they'd cooperate. Regardless, ISIS has been taking losses for some time now.
Now, him endorsing Turkish state terror, that's another matter.
The IS website in question is called Darul Hilafe, which means "Land of the Caliphate." It was hosted on the domain DarulHilafe.com but was blocked by Turkish authorities in July, along with a few other jihadist websites. The site was reopened quickly on the domain DarulHilafe.net, which was still up when this article was written. It is, of course, worth asking why the Turkish system, which can be very quick to block websites when the highest authorities are personally disturbed, is sluggish when it comes to other matters.Wahhabism is a Najd movement under the Saudis, it will be rather meaningless for Turkey's neighbours if all Turkey does is remove the Arab elements of Islamism and retain all the bits about seeing infidels and apostates, making all who believe in other faiths or freedoms (or indeed, those who leave Islam) as infidels and apostates, as enemies to be removed. Erdogan's going to create generations of uneducated fundamentalists on Europe's doorstep, which will remain a long term cause of bloodshed long after ISIS breathes its last
Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/08/turkey-isis-ignores-countrys-islamism.html#ixzz4nPgLzDM9
The Central goverment will trigger article 155 this Saturday.
Oh darn and here I thought I had snuck onto all the politic threads already. Also, how is Australia part of Europe at all?They fall under the British crown. If ever the Brexit happens, Australia will stop being Europe
It's an incoherent mass of diseased ideologyPolitics, then.
Oh darn and here I thought I had snuck onto all the politic threads already. Also, how is Australia part of Europe at all?They fall under the British crown. If ever the Brexit happens, Australia will stop being Europe
get your regular dose of revolution vaccination or you might just catch a Europe infectionI'll just leave this here http://forgetcatalonia.eu
current infection rates are at 25.6% and have increased over the last few years, despite the best efforts of Spain, Britain, and Turkey
ignore Russia's vaccine, though. we have enough cases of Russian zombie virus already
The International Olympics Committee is still somewhat miffed about the Russian government's attempts to cheat.Since there's no way in hell Russia would admit anything that labels it as guilty while Putin and his people remain in office, it effectively means Russia's participation in the Olympic Games is officially over.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/05/568585759/russia-faces-2018-olympics-ban-as-ioc-rules-on-widespread-doping (https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/05/568585759/russia-faces-2018-olympics-ban-as-ioc-rules-on-widespread-doping)
Entertainingly, Russians in 2018 will not be allowed to compete under the Russian flag.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The International Olympics Committee is still somewhat miffed about the Russian government's attempts to cheat.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/05/568585759/russia-faces-2018-olympics-ban-as-ioc-rules-on-widespread-doping (https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/05/568585759/russia-faces-2018-olympics-ban-as-ioc-rules-on-widespread-doping)
Entertainingly, Russians in 2018 will not be allowed to compete under the Russian flag.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The International Olympics Committee is still somewhat miffed about the Russian government's attempts to cheat.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/05/568585759/russia-faces-2018-olympics-ban-as-ioc-rules-on-widespread-doping (https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/05/568585759/russia-faces-2018-olympics-ban-as-ioc-rules-on-widespread-doping)
Entertainingly, Russians in 2018 will not be allowed to compete under the Russian flag.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Maybe they can compete under Belarus or Khazakhistan or something?
Kind of funny (in the non-ha ha way) that they made the decision mere months before the Olympics
You just want to see the athletes compete naked, don't you?Is there already a naked olympics? If not someone needs to get to work.
As a twist, the judges and spectators also must participate unclothed.That would certainly help solve some security issues
I'd be really down with just making it an Athens thing again, like it was originally.
I'd be really down with just making it an Athens thing again, like it was originally.
Well, that's one way to make the Greek economy even worse.
It'll be the initial investment. Probably the maintenance cost of the infrastructure will be a good chunk and it's revenue stream only coming from the Olympics rolling around.I'd be really down with just making it an Athens thing again, like it was originally.
Well, that's one way to make the Greek economy even worse.
Would it be that bad if it was a recurring thing? I mean, it's a money sink to organize once, but you wouldn't need to rebuild infrastructure all the time.
Not strictly EU related, but is Europe related and has Israel, The Czech Republic is following Trumps lead and recognizing west Jerusalem as Israel's capitol (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/363633-czech-republic-recognizes-west-jerusalem-as-israels-capital). Coming so soon after Trump made his announcement, it makes you wonder if they've had the idea of doing so for years but understandably didn't want to be the ones making the first step.Not at all surprising, the Czech government has always supported Israel. They supported their raid on the Gaza flotilla, they always vote in favour of Israel within the EU or UN, even if it means they're the only country in Europe doing so. In regards to your suspicion, you're absolutely correct, they've had public plans to move their embassy to Jerusalem since 2013 (http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Erekat-protests-Czech-presidents-call-to-move-countrys-embassy-to-Jerusalem-328028). The only thing you're wrong on is that they're not following Trump's lead
President of the Czech Republic, Milos Zeman, spoke at the AIPAC Policy Conference in the United States and said that “We all know President Kennedy’s statement, ‘I am a Berliner.’ We now all must say: ‘We are all Jews.’ Our common enemy is Islamist terror. We will never march like sheep to the slaughter. Never again.”It is much more accurate to say that Trump followed the lead of AIPAC, the Czech and Israeli Presidents
Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu is slated to speak at the conference at 5:00 p.m.
The International Olympics Committee is still somewhat miffed about the Russian government's attempts to cheat.Since there's no way in hell Russia would admit anything that labels it as guilty while Putin and his people remain in office, it effectively means Russia's participation in the Olympic Games is officially over.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/05/568585759/russia-faces-2018-olympics-ban-as-ioc-rules-on-widespread-doping (https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/05/568585759/russia-faces-2018-olympics-ban-as-ioc-rules-on-widespread-doping)
Entertainingly, Russians in 2018 will not be allowed to compete under the Russian flag.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Rip in piss, Russian Olympic team (1994-2017).
The idea of boycotting the 2018 games should any Russian athlete be barred from participating was already floating in the Russian media, though. Also, due to current anti-Western sentiment, anyone who would dare compete under the Olympic flag should better apply for political asylum afterwards - their participation would be considered high treason by many in their homeland.
@scriver Searching "varför belarus" ("why Belarus") brought me this site (https://iost.nu/info/vitryssland-eller-belarus/). The point seems to be that the "rus" in Belarus refers to a medieval federation based around Kiev (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus), rather than modern-day Russia. Of course, the "Rus" in "Russia" is also from that Rus. And Roslagen, apparently. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27#Name)Russia just means "Rus' place" anyway; Belarus was itself called 'Belorussia' ("White Rus' place") until they basically decided they didn't want to sound so much like Russia because of all the Soviet problems. Rus itself is the endonym of the people who settled the whole general area and are the ancestors of Russians, Belarusians, and a bunch of other Slavic populations in the general area. The names are (apart from the 'white' part) identical.
Painful are the trials of the linguistic prescriptivist.
@scriver Searching "varför belarus" ("why Belarus") brought me this site (https://iost.nu/info/vitryssland-eller-belarus/). The point seems to be that the "rus" in Belarus refers to a medieval federation based around Kiev (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus), rather than modern-day Russia. Of course, the "Rus" in "Russia" is also from that Rus. And Roslagen, apparently. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27#Name)
That's too strong a statement. You make it sound like they've just announced the union. Looks to me like the same old song Lukashenko has been singing for years - whenever he needed favours from Russia, he would tease the union, hold some talks, sign some agreements, only to back off later.There are no same old Lukashenko and never will be. Despite the impotence of the protestors that do almost nothing, Lukashenko's power is greatly diminished. All he needs to lose all of his power is one military officer that will give one order.
Meanwhile in Belarus, Putin has sent paratroopers 'on excercise' to the country, helped out Loekasjenko with a 1.3 billion euro loan and warned the West not to interfere in Belarus.Belarusian protests are the most pacifist protests I have ever seen (barring first few days) so those paratroopers won't be necessary.
Armenia anf AzerbaijanIt's horrible how Asians keep invading the Europe thread.
I just wonder at what point "Britain' gets added to the OP title. (Though at this rate, it'll be dropped from every thread title, as it refuses/is refused to be part of any other block.)
Armenia anf Azerbaijan seem to have had a shooting war over a disputed area, with military and civilian casualties on both sides. Details still sketchy and "he said, she said", right now. Might even be "business as usual", as I don't follow that area much, but if tanks and a helicopter are destroyed, as reported, it's not 'a minor skirmish between opposing border guards'.Well, actually Armenia doesn't claim that it is their territory. It is about unrecognized (by the most of the world) state with mostly Armenian population (after they kicked out\killed most of Azeris in early 1990s)
BREXITSorry I don't speak French, can you translate brexit to English
MEANS
B R E X I T
That Navalny guy does have balls of steel.Banter
Despite being nearly assasinated with novichok, and despite the threat of being arrested upon his return, he is returning to Russia.
By the way, don't let all the libs heralding Navalny as some color revolution hero to take down Putin get you twisted. This is still the guy who calls minorities "cockroaches".
Just plain delusion/martyr complex, IMO. Alternatively, the German intelligence service ordered him to face the music or else.
By the way, don't let all the libs heralding Navalny as some color revolution hero to take down Putin get you twisted. This is still the guy who calls minorities "cockroaches".
wotta palace
I always wondered what's the point of it all though. Why grift your country out of billions to have ultra luxury? Same question for Malaysia too. Even if you're going to be a grifty bastard why don't you just grift a few million like American politicians do, you're never going to be out of comfort anyways
to go out diving is a fairly painless way to go
Most of the ways you can die while diving are extremely painful as I understand them. Asphyxiation, complications from the bends, injuries sustained as a result of being dashed against rocks or coral by the tide. Not pleasant ways to go.The many ways don't matter, what matters is the most common. I had to do some looking up on this because my initial assumption that drowning or asphyxiation would be the most common cause of open water diving fatalities wasn't entirely right; you can split them into two categories. Deaths below the surface, and deaths at surface. Of those you see a predictable spread between deaths by drowning, asphyxiation and a handful of sudden unconsciousness, whilst surface has the spread of bends or gas embolism related fatalities. Unless you get a gas embolism cutting blood flow from the brain, it's going to hurt like hell before you die. Of the underwater ones, you're not going to be conscious long enough to feel much of anything. Then there are the minority but still statistically significant causes of death like entanglement or penetration divers getting stuck under ice, caves or in wrecks, which would be a pretty foul way to go out, as you'd be conscious and exhausted for a fairly long time.
Yeah, from what I've understood from reanimated drowning victims, inhaling water is one of the most excruciatingly painful things imaginable.I've nearly drowned before, and the actual drowning itself was painless. It was only after I was dragged out of the water that I experienced any pain. I have heard from other people similar experiences, but also heard from people who also nearly drowned that it was incredibly painful. I don't really know for sure why people have such wildly different experiences with drowning but I have my suspicions it may be down to whether the person involved was suffering shock/panic or not, as my anecdotal experience & gossip shows those who reported painless near-death drowning were fairly relaxed and did not struggle or fall into freezing cold water
I dont know... One of the ways one could go sounds very unpleasant. (http://www.seaturtle.org/mtn/archives/mtn117/mtn117p10.shtml)Pounded in the butt until I die by a 100kg marine turtle, the new hit novella by chuck tingle
I chuckled when one of the news reports on the TV earlier mentioned that the US cautioned Russia about "using excessive violence on the protestors"Oh, another one of the "hey, police uses violence in the USA, too" crowd.
Meanwhile, Putin is accusing the US of orchestrating the protests.
Human rights organisations say Putin has never before ordered such violent beatdown of protests.
Reports everywhere from unconscious protestors in police vans, already subdued helpless arrestants getting electroshocked, torture in police stations.
In 142 cities people took to the streets in protest.
More people were arrested in a single day today than has ever happened since Putin's rise to power in 1999
I chuckled when one of the news reports on the TV earlier mentioned that the US cautioned Russia about "using excessive violence on the protestors"Oh, another one of the "hey, police uses violence in the USA, too" crowd.
Riot police use violence everywhere. It is a part of their job. Often it is necessary. Sometimes it is excessive either because of poor training or because such line of work attracts... certain types of men.
It doesn't mean that denying the very basic human right of a peaceful assembly by unlawful arrests and beatings is somehow OK.
Apparently recovering from Geneva banned nerve toxin is hospital is no excuse for missing a date with your parole officer.Navalny's team is calling to gather at one of Moscow's squares right now, (https://twitter.com/teamnavalny_mos/status/1356655979669172226)
More protests are expected.
I think it is very unwise, all that they can achieve by this is getting their most active supporters arrested.
Only the most active will go out at night when it is -12 C outside. Russia still has real winters.
Cold War II is still going strong, I see. Quite the echo chamber you've got in here.You mean like this actual Russian? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=177507.msg8242909#msg8242909)
This forum could use a couple (dozen) actual Russians to shine a light from the other side of Western media blinds.
Party slogan: there can only be one
You could at least say it correctly.. (https://highlander.fandom.com/wiki/There_can_be_only_one)only fans can be one there
Hm, I think this goes here...says russia is included...Why would China help Russia to destroy\damage their markets? The only possible WW3 is "how the hell we destroy those crazy Russians without causing a nuclear winter?"
And oh boy...
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56616778
I hope this doesn't lead to a huge war, cause likely it be russia and china vs everyone else. even if china and russia have very iffy relations, enemy of my enemy is a big attractor sometimes. Even if china doesnt help russia, they'd definitely take advantage of their furthering expansions.
That and the world does NOT need a war with covid getting worse
Prince Philip, husband to queen Elizabeth II has died, rather unexpectedly, at age 99.
He was admitted to hospital with an infection that turned out to be more serious than initially assumed.
In his yearly speech, Putin warned the world that anyone who turns against Moscow, can count on a 'disproportional, fast, and heavy' Russian response.
He told his fellow countrymen that their counrty is being threatened by foreign nations that 'keep provoking Russia for no reason'.
Adressing 'foreign provocateurs', he added that they 'will regret their actions like they have not regretted something for a long time'.
In his yearly speech, Putin warned the world that anyone who turns against Moscow, can count on a 'disproportional, fast, and heavy' Russian response.
He told his fellow countrymen that their counrty is being threatened by foreign nations that 'keep provoking Russia for no reason'.
Adressing 'foreign provocateurs', he added that they 'will regret their actions like they have not regretted something for a long time'.
Sounds like the same line the US always trots out. And why a lot of European countries "need" to keep out foreigners. &c.
In his yearly speech, Putin warned the world that anyone who turns against Moscow, can count on a 'disproportional, fast, and heavy' Russian response.Now, that doesn't sound like a man that's feeling unthreatened. Guess that the West turning on him has him rankled.
He told his fellow countrymen that their counrty is being threatened by foreign nations that 'keep provoking Russia for no reason'.
Adressing 'foreign provocateurs', he added that they 'will regret their actions like they have not regretted something for a long time'.
In his yearly speech, Putin warned the world that anyone who turns against Moscow, can count on a 'disproportional, fast, and heavy' Russian response.
He told his fellow countrymen that their counrty is being threatened by foreign nations that 'keep provoking Russia for no reason'.
Adressing 'foreign provocateurs', he added that they 'will regret their actions like they have not regretted something for a long time'.
Sounds like the same line the US always trots out. And why a lot of European countries "need" to keep out foreigners. &c.
You don't know much about Europe do you?
In his yearly speech, Putin warned the world that anyone who turns against Moscow, can count on a 'disproportional, fast, and heavy' Russian response.But he's already doing unprovoked chemical weapons attacks, cyberattacks on civilians in UK, already doing salami slicing invasion in Ukraine...? The threat only works if you're not already carrying it out
He told his fellow countrymen that their counrty is being threatened by foreign nations that 'keep provoking Russia for no reason'.
Adressing 'foreign provocateurs', he added that they 'will regret their actions like they have not regretted something for a long time'.
I’m rather gobsmacked that the conseratives are doing so well in England. Boris is having a bit of a crisis what with having three separate inquiries into how he paid for the £200k renovations for his flat, the wasting of public cash in a pandemic building a press room for £2.6m and a yacht for the dearly departed spouse of the queen costing upwards of £200m, various ministers have been embroiled in their own controversies and not been ousted or even ostensibly punished in any way.Boris is as unpopular as ever, however his taint hasn't tainted the Tory brand yet. I wonder if it's because the Prime Minister is a lot less executive than say a President, but it's probably more a factor that:
Y’all like your cronyism down there.
2. Team Killing fucktards at Labour
The Tories actually increased their voteshare in formerly always-Labour areas. This is probably because the Labour party tried to adopt Corbyn's pro-working class policies without Corbyn, but the mantra of 'Tony Blair sucks' doesn't carry as true with voters when you're on a first name basis with Tony Blair. If they had thrown their support behind Corbyn instead of spending the last 3 years sabotaging the grassroots labour movement, the grassroots probably wouldn't be the barren wasteland we see today
Frankly it continues to disappoint me that we can have expenses scandals, panama leaks and 300k curtains paid for by political sugardaddies for 15 years in a row without civil servants and MPs getting the axe - it is disappointing that Keir Starner was unable to hold Boris's feet to the fire.
Also, Conservatives (in particular) can't multitask, or so their interviews indicate.
It's better to lose for a few years than get someone in who'll screw up your income from graft. Plus, enough voters think politics is a team sport and will forgive anything their side does. Same story around the world and throughout time.I think the last 6 years are an exception to this rule; lots of team boundaries have been redrawn and look to be settling in new and strange ways
Anyone have comments about Israel kicking Palestinians out of their homes, attacking them for protesting, then attacking a mosque because they didn't have protestors to attack anymore?
Anyone have comments about Israel kicking Palestinians out of their homes, attacking them for protesting, then attacking a mosque because they didn't have protestors to attack anymore?One of the Republican senators in the USA chucked a bill at the senate saying the USA ought to review all the money they send to Israel to make sure not a single dollar's being used to aid human rights abuses, but the news is sleeping on that. UK gov and shadowgov is sleeping on the Al Aqsa raid too, much to the chargrin of palestinian labour members (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-palestine-israel-racism-b1842438.html)
Well, hopefully its not middle east 3.0...again...but palestine and israel have gone at it for so long. its almost like north korea and south korea at this point, except some action actually happens unlike north korea who is all words. but then everyone (palestine/israel) calms down and goes to timeout corner.North Korea / South Korea possess some advantages though. Same people, clearly demarciated political border, two great powers supporting each side (China, USA), and neither side is trigger happy or deliberately targeting civilians for clearing
Well, hopefully its not middle east 3.0...again...but palestine and israel have gone at it for so long. its almost like north korea and south korea at this point, except some action actually happens unlike north korea who is all words. but then everyone (palestine/israel) calms down and goes to timeout corner.North Korea / South Korea possess some advantages though. Same people, clearly demarciated political border, two great powers supporting each side (China, USA), and neither side is trigger happy or deliberately targeting civilians for clearing
Anyone have comments about Israel kicking Palestinians out of their homes, attacking them for protesting, then attacking a mosque because they didn't have protestors to attack anymore?One of the Republican senators in the USA chucked a bill at the senate saying the USA ought to review all the money they send to Israel to make sure not a single dollar's being used to aid human rights abuses, but the news is sleeping on that. UK gov and shadowgov is sleeping on the Al Aqsa raid too, much to the chargrin of palestinian labour members (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-palestine-israel-racism-b1842438.html)
Anyone have comments about Israel kicking Palestinians out of their homes, attacking them for protesting, then attacking a mosque because they didn't have protestors to attack anymore?One of the Republican senators in the USA chucked a bill at the senate saying the USA ought to review all the money they send to Israel to make sure not a single dollar's being used to aid human rights abuses, but the news is sleeping on that. UK gov and shadowgov is sleeping on the Al Aqsa raid too, much to the chargrin of palestinian labour members (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-palestine-israel-racism-b1842438.html)
https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/1392559121396768775 (https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/1392559121396768775)
Ah, they've got help from the UN security council. That's why they can get away with war crimes against civilians.
Anyone have comments about Israel kicking Palestinians out of their homes, attacking them for protesting, then attacking a mosque because they didn't have protestors to attack anymore?One of the Republican senators in the USA chucked a bill at the senate saying the USA ought to review all the money they send to Israel to make sure not a single dollar's being used to aid human rights abuses, but the news is sleeping on that. UK gov and shadowgov is sleeping on the Al Aqsa raid too, much to the chargrin of palestinian labour members (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-palestine-israel-racism-b1842438.html)
https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/1392559121396768775 (https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/1392559121396768775)
Ah, they've got help from the UN security council. That's why they can get away with war crimes against civilians.
No no, they gave them, like, 90 minutes to abandon their entire home life before they demolished an apartment complex because there was a Hamas office in there. No war crimes here.
Anyone have comments about Israel kicking Palestinians out of their homes, attacking them for protesting, then attacking a mosque because they didn't have protestors to attack anymore?One of the Republican senators in the USA chucked a bill at the senate saying the USA ought to review all the money they send to Israel to make sure not a single dollar's being used to aid human rights abuses, but the news is sleeping on that. UK gov and shadowgov is sleeping on the Al Aqsa raid too, much to the chargrin of palestinian labour members (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-palestine-israel-racism-b1842438.html)
So keep in mind that posting what seems reasonable criticism of Israel's policies can at times be labelled anti-Semitic. I feel at times like this when Netanyahu stands to gain from causing mischief for his people, both Palestinian and Israeli, the flare ups tend to happen. However I am no expert on the matter.
Well they didn't give any evidence at all that there was any Hamas assets or individuals there; none of the journalists reported any such thing either so it seems fantastical that the IDF really expects everyone to take their word at face valueThe terrorists clearly put on their cloaks of invisibility (gifted by Allah) and fled to local schools and hospitals.
Well they didn't give any evidence at all that there was any Hamas assets or individuals there; none of the journalists reported any such thing either so it seems fantastical that the IDF really expects everyone to take their word at face valueClearly, they were tipped off by some 'anonymous trusted source'. Maybe an unidentified Hamas agent went into the building some time or another within the last month or 50. That was all the intel they needed to determine the building was a valid military target. And clearly it was not an arbitrary means to punish the Palestinians for daring to get uppity, with the added benefit of lowering the Palestinian population.
Of course, they could also be just targeting the media buildings because they do not like the bad press.
Of course, they could also be just targeting the media buildings because they do not like the bad press.
Generally speaking shooting rockets at journalists gets you more bad press.
Of course, they could also be just targeting the media buildings because they do not like the bad press.
Generally speaking shooting rockets at journalists gets you more bad press.
In the immediate aftermath sure.
Medium- to long-term there are no more journalists to document it.
Generally speaking shooting rockets at journalists gets you more bad press.Hasn't stopped them before (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/02/28/israeli-snipers-targeted-children-health-workers-journalists/). Seems like IDF prefers angry journalists to internationally publicised videos/images/interviews from Palestine
Seems like IDF prefers angry journalists to internationally publicised videos/images/interviews from Palestine
A CNN journalist at the mosque compound said dozens of Israeli officers hit journalists with batons and tried to point rifles at them, calling them "liars" when they showed them their press cards.
Am I dumb or wouldn't two live on.It talks about lineage so it turns singular in google translate then gets messed up when run through google translate. In case anyone wanted an actual Arab speaker's opinion.
Maybe Arabic translation err?
...a 'Space Force' seems to require an opponent...
[unashamed snipping]It's sort of implied in the naming....a 'Space Force' seems to require an opponent...
Why concieve of it as a primarily military conflict oriented organisation?
(Rhetorically, 'What opponent does a Police Force have?')(Space Police or Space Patrol would suit a 'police force' IN SPAAAACE!! far better. I don't know about everywhere, not encyclopedically, but it tends to be the Police Service ("PS of Foo", or "Foo PS") or Constabulary over here, or just qualify the word Police....
Instead how about a body that does something about the dumping of booster rockets in dangerous orbits - for example. Given the growing number of nations and private organisations bringing the 'junk the earth' mentality into space that seems like it could be a good thing.And probably better described as an Agency, though perhaps a Directorate (implying control) or Partnership (implying inter-agency cooperation/coordination) would be a less military-implying title element. Semantics, I know, but you can be sure it'll be a harder thing to get membership signatures for if it comes with the wrong 'tone'.
(Space Police or Space Patrol would suit a 'police force' IN SPAAAACE!! far better. I don't know about everywhere, not encyclopedically, but it tends to be the Police Service ("PS of Foo", or "Foo PS") or Constabulary over here, or just qualify the word Police.......while I believe the US goes for Police Department (or Sheriff's Office/similar) and worldwide it looks like Agencies, Bureaus, Inspectorates get added to the list of titular stylings. I'm not sure that 'Force' is more than a popular coverall term to cover any or all the generic national/regional/contextual/private organisations or sub-organisations, probably as a holdover from the earlier paramilitary roots) and thus purely colloquial/rightfully uncapitalised, such as "I spent more than thirty years on the force".)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Definition of police force(minor typographical alterations for readability)
: a body of trained officers entrusted by a government with maintenance of public peace and order, enforcement of laws, and prevention and detection of crime
[...]
Examples of police force in a Sentence
- He joined the local police force.
-mobilized practically the entire police force to track down the escaped criminal
Recent Examples on the Web:
- Garmback was allowed to remain on the police force. — Bill Hutchinson, ABC News, 25 May 2021
- Harrison spent 28 years on the New Orleans police force, working undercover early in his career to help the FBI catch corrupt officers, then rising through the ranks, including a stop as head of the internal affairs division. — Washington Post, 22 May 2021
And probably better described as an Agency, though perhaps a Directorate (implying control) or Partnership (implying inter-agency cooperation/coordination) would be a less military-implying title element. Semantics, I know, but you can be sure it'll be a harder thing to get membership signatures for if it comes with the wrong 'tone'.
This is a list of the 45 territorial police forces and 3 special police forces of the United Kingdom.
Edit:I nearly posted exactly the same (or https://www.police.uk/pu/find-a-police-force/ - for the same reasons) to support my own assertion. Not one 'police force', in the casual vernacular, is actually given the title of "(Foo/) Police Force (/of Foo)". Nor "Foo Force".
[1] In case the argument is "we don't call them that here" I think that is a mistake. See for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_police_forces_of_the_United_Kingdom (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_police_forces_of_the_United_Kingdom)QuoteThis is a list of the 45 territorial police forces and 3 special police forces of the United Kingdom.
So, um, Ukraine WTF???
Female soldiers in Ukraine forced to march in heels (https://www.independent.co.uk/world/female-soldiers-ukraine-heels-b1877538.html)
And here I was thinking that the first reply would be some inanity about stilletos. :Daagghhh and now I can’t stop thinking how good that joke could have been if only I’d had the idea and you hadn’t gotten there first
Speaking to RIA Novosti on Tuesday, Roman Silantyev, the deputy chairman of the Russian Ministry of Justice's advisory council on religion, said that people should be aware of the risks. “The likelihood of becoming a victim of satanists is small, but it is not zero, 20 to 30 people a year can become their victims,” he said.Wew
Plymouth? Nothing ever happens in Plymouth. Wonder what the investigators'll find out from this one
Madmen don't need motives.Madness has a source. It is made in a toxic soup of emotions and thoughts. Figuring out the ingredients... and how to prevent the concoction from being brewed with said ingredients is how you prevent further madness from propagating.
To shoot a 3 year old toddler one needs to be really far gone into coockoo land.
Madmen don't need motives.Maybe they don't need motives, but a lot of times they'll have triggers. I guess this one will have to be one for the criminal psychologists though
To shoot a 3 year old toddler one needs to be really far gone into coockoo land.
First victim was the shooter's mother [snip]
Apple: we support everyone, every race, every sex, gender and creed
but not if you oppose putin lol
Yeah, I see it now... The EU oligarchs that have been profiting from the Russia-EU pipelines have a new plan to continue to profit.The European Union is known for its silliness and contradictory nature. One of my Polish friends here maintains to this day that the best thing for Ukraine would have been for the UK & USA to cut off all arms supplies to Ukraine so that the war ends faster. He would not be convinced that the best thing would be for the European Union to stop purchasing Russian gas to that the Russian fed defaults on government debtSpoiler (click to show/hide)
The EU coal plants will be re-started and the EU's carbon emission goals will be missed, and the seas will boil....
One of my Polish friends here maintains to this day that the best thing for Ukraine would have been for the UK & USA to cut off all arms supplies to Ukraine so that the war ends faster. He would not be convinced that the best thing would be for the European Union to stop purchasing Russian gas to that the Russian fed defaults on government debtYou're not going to end the fighting by giving Ukraine more weapons. You're just going to end Ukraine, at which point the fighting will, admittedly, stop.
You're not going to end the fighting by giving Ukraine more weapons. You're just going to end Ukraine, at which point the fighting will, admittedly, stop.Well obviously. The choice was between Ukraine ceasing to exist under Putin's rule or to give Ukraine the arms it needs to be sovereign over its own land; if the Ukrainians want to surrender for peace, then that's ultimately their choice. If however they choose to prolong fighting, then they should be provided the means to continue fighting, until such time as they can pursue a favourable peace treaty. The die having been cast - this is what will be. I would not be surprised if the Ukrainian government will continue the fight until Russia withdraws from Crimea & Donbas, or Ukraine joins NATO. They are going to prolong this war until they can get a peace treaty which will shield them from any future Russian invasions, and it seems that Russia can't really do anything to reverse their losses whilst Putin still treats this as a "special military operation" and not an invasion
It still amuses me greatly that people think Russia 'defaulting' would even do anything at this point.
Well, Ukraine joining NATO before removing Russia from its territory is not going to happen[1], and so long as Russia is unable to at least properly shore up/rationalise its 'gains' I can't see a functioning Ukrainian government not biting back at every opportunity, right up to the proper border if at all possible, for at least the rest of the year.I could definitely see a scenario where a Ukrainian counter-offensive fails and they settle for a peace where Ukraine joins NATO but Russia retains Crimea & Donbas in their sphere of influence so Putin can save face. We'll have to see how well Ukr ground forces can do
Maybe for several years, but I won't predict a Forever War as, apart from the difficulties of maintaining a Hot Stalemate for that long, some unforeseen/unforeseeable rebalancing is surely going to happen out of the blue. Whether from internal (for either side) elections or other necessary leadership changes, third parties adding more than the current weight of support or world events (natural or political) shifting the whole axis of international focus around. (You can imagine all kinds of things, most improbable but not at all impossible.)Yeah I don't think Russia imploding or becoming Xi Jinping's property is good for Europe either, but a constant state of warfare isn't worth it either. As with all things, history tends to swing between "there are some things worth dying for" and "nothing is worth dying for." Nothing better can be done until Putin or Zelensky believe in the latter
I'm with you in that not supplying arms to Ukraine is one of the worst options for 'the rest of the West' to do. The easiest way to restore peace is for Russians[2] to go home, but the events that lead to that also require events outwith the direct and clear control of Ukraine. If anything, though, that is the outcome that Putin probably fears most, and probably fuels at least some of his paranoia. Fighting NATO-by-proxy is probably the best he could hope for. Which isn't saying much, but of the viable alternatives...At least for us, it is good that they never linked up with transnistria, and are unlikely to in future
The main point (that I started with) also complicates the Moldova/Transnistria issue, for direct NATO interference, but doesn't prevent (maybe even lubricates) the possible transfer of materielle and the means of training. Pour discourages la Putin, as it were.
I could definitely see a scenario where a Ukrainian counter-offensive fails and they settle for a peace where Ukraine joins NATO but Russia retains Crimea & Donbas in their sphere of influence so Putin can save face. We'll have to see how well Ukr ground forces can do
If a Ukrainian counter-offensive fails, why would Russia agree to this kind of terms?Because Russia is not in a position to be dictating terms. They are woefully unprepared to fight a war whilst their political leadership refuses to even acknowledge they're at war; Ukraine is capable of utilising all of its resources whilst Russia cannot utilise all of her own. That's not even factoring in that Russia will run out of war materiel far faster than NATO ever will
Russia is already taking steps to occupy all of the captured territory.
Of the approximately 150,000 Russian troops used to attack Ukraine in late February, an estimated one-third have been killed or injured, according to British officials.So that leaves 100,000 Russian troops in fighting fit shape. These chaps suggest 80,000 more troops (https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2022/02/03/troop-to-task_a_russian_invasion_of_ukraine_815091.html) would be needed to occupy eastern Ukraine, with another 80,000 later to allow for troop rotations. Meanwhile Ukraine has mobilised 1 million men and plans to mobilise 2 million more (https://www.nationalworld.com/news/world/russia-ukraine-crisis-how-big-is-the-ukraine-army-size-of-armed-forces-compared-to-russia-uk-us-and-nato-3581362). Without resorting to conscription Russia can't compete with those numbers, and certainly everyone here expects that conscription would result in Putin getting toppled. This also assumes a Ukrainian passivity which just isn't there; the Ukrainian forces have shown they will counter-attack wherever they see weakness like in Kiev or Mykolaiv, whilst partisan attacks inside occupied lines (https://www.nationthailand.com/international/40014664) would be a whole other headache requiring even more losses, even more boots on the ground. From where I stand, the best outcome for Russia is an ordered withdrawal where they can claim a token of victory to keep their pride intact, or else just topple Putin and accept that they wasted the many lives of Russians to bleed their neighbours in order to secure the excellent foreign policy goal of turning allies into enemies and achieving the grand elevation of Russia into diplomatic pariah #1, North Korea #2
Also, if a major countet-offensive will fail resulting in a huge loss of combat ability... Russia will start offensive on its own. It is how it works.I'm trying to guess what at what would cause Ukrainian morale to falter, not the strategic outcome of the war. Because Ukrainian morale is far higher than Russian, and with NATO handing them a blank cheque, the only limit to their fighting ability is how willing they are to fight
Any joining of (whatever remains of) Ukraine with NATO will be very difficult for Putin, because that is a key causus beli upon which he hung his whole invasion upon. So I also think LW is wrong here.I don't disagree, yet the Ukrainian government is not going to sign a peace treaty which would just be grounds for a future Russian invasion in the event Russian military capability recovers and learns from its mistakes. Even a situation where Russia withdraws completely from Ukraine doesn't answer the question of "what if round 2?" Even if they don't join NATO, they would still seek some legal mechanism which would protect them against Russia since Russia decided the Budapest Memorandum was toilet paper
Using a broad brush to paint this picture. I still think that the most likely outcomes (cumulatively, if mutually-exclusively with many of the othets) are ones that arise from the unpredictable turns of fate that change the whole story and make the above either/or moot in most respects. But that's in a chaotic mess of shoulder-shrugging foggy futures.There is a third outcome: the war drags on for a long time, outliving Putin himself, until Russia exhausts itself militarily and economically
One of my Polish friends here maintains to this day that the best thing for Ukraine would have been for the UK & USA to cut off all arms supplies to Ukraine so that the war ends faster. He would not be convinced that the best thing would be for the European Union to stop purchasing Russian gas to that the Russian fed defaults on government debtYou're not going to end the fighting by giving Ukraine more weapons. You're just going to end Ukraine, at which point the fighting will, admittedly, stop.
It still amuses me greatly that people think Russia 'defaulting' would even do anything at this point.
One of my Polish friends here maintains to this day that the best thing for Ukraine would have been for the UK & USA to cut off all arms supplies to Ukraine so that the war ends faster. He would not be convinced that the best thing would be for the European Union to stop purchasing Russian gas to that the Russian fed defaults on government debtYou're not going to end the fighting by giving Ukraine more weapons. You're just going to end Ukraine, at which point the fighting will, admittedly, stop.
It still amuses me greatly that people think Russia 'defaulting' would even do anything at this point.
There is a third outcome: the war drags on for a long time, outliving Putin himself, until Russia exhausts itself militarily and economicallyI believe that this will be the outcome (if there isn't nuclear war), but how Putin dies could be unnatural.
Shinzo Abe just got assassinated!?oh fuck he actually died from the wounds
What if they get backstabbed, but hang around anyway just to not to have a shorter tenure than the predecessor he in turn backstabbed..?
(The longer it drags on, the more likely that the direcy successive PM is not the directly successive party leader.. :P )
But we're the good guys, right? /sarcasmYeah when they close ranks to protect misconduct - and frankly - war crimes, it makes you wonder what kind of culture is really there behind closed doors
Let's hope the british government's response is better than that of the australian government. They raided thebabc, who broke the story, and laid criminal charges against... the whistleblower (and no one else). The fight continues to get that one thrown out. Meanwhile criminal charges for murderous soldiers, forget it - even though the internal review found massive culpability.
Assistant Chief Constable Richard Cooper said: "I would like to say sorry. Sorry to the survivors and all those affected by child sexual exploitation in Telford.An apology is something but... Couldn't they have just done their fucking job?
"While there were no findings of corruption, our actions fell far short of the help and protection you should have had from us, it was unacceptable, we let you down.
{snip} the police being aware of it in gross detail but blaming the victims because they didn't want to appear racist
Never attribute to corruption that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.I honestly wish they were replaced by mediocre policemen who would actually just do the bare minimum of their job. Because as long as they did their job, they'd be doing much better than someone who wasn't. Imagine you have Bob Dole, the overweight bobby who spends most of his day eating a 6 pack of donuts. A teacher calls up Bob Dole saying they're worried their student's been missing for 2 days and has become suddenly very withdrawn. In between donuts, Bob Dole decides to go down and ask the missing student some questions. Picking up his notepad, he writes down everything the teacher and the student say to get a legal record, dates it and realises something untoward is happening with some unsavoury gentlemen. A local councillor cautions him not to inflame racial tensions, but Bob Dole is on his second box of donuts and simply says, "not racist, just hate nonces," and sets to work bringing in some of the men for questioning. Local councillor accuses Bob Dole of racism, but the accusations are retracted when the investigation shows an abundance of evidence that the accused are in fact, child rapists
Apparently they are just as stupid as the rest of us. Mmm, the smell of porkies
Lucy Lowe, 16, was killed in 2000 along with her mother and sister after her 26-year-old abuser Azhar Ali Mehmood set fire to their house.I'll add that she was reportedly pregnant with his child again at the time of the murder-arson.
Cabbie Mehmood targeted Lucy in 1997 and she was just 14 when she gave birth to his daughter.
He was jailed for murdering Lucy, her mum Eileen and 17-year-old sister Sarah.
But he was never arrested nor charged in connection with any child sex crimes over his illegal relationship with the schoolgirl.
I'm not buying it.*
I can get your point about Bob Dole (2) the brown-noser and unfortunately the chances are that some of the junior police officers were somewhat like that. However it is telling that the vast amount of action on child abuse/exploitation in Telford was pursued and promoted by junior officers. In fact it was the higher-ups invoking the "can't do racism" excuse (aka a blatant lie to coverup whatever was the real reason). It is not clear what the deal with the higher ranking police was/is - can only speculate that there must have been some big personal benefits to allowing the exploitation to continue, and much bigger than PR or another promotion chance given the circumstance. And as stupid as it is for them to invoke racism as an excuse not to act it is just as stupid for us to swallow that lie. They had to make some excuse and it is crappy that they used 'too racist' but it is a failure of the commission(s) not to even hint at the real reason. I took you initially to be suggesting the commissions themselves end up being part of the coverup (unwit-tingly?). Perhaps I misunderstood.
Going back to the original mirror article which broke the issue (for those that missed it) https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/britains-worst-ever-child-grooming-12165527 (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/britains-worst-ever-child-grooming-12165527) take the case of Lucy Lowe:QuoteLucy Lowe, 16, was killed in 2000 along with her mother and sister after her 26-year-old abuser Azhar Ali Mehmood set fire to their house.I'll add that she was reportedly pregnant with his child again at the time of the murder-arson.
Cabbie Mehmood targeted Lucy in 1997 and she was just 14 when she gave birth to his daughter.
He was jailed for murdering Lucy, her mum Eileen and 17-year-old sister Sarah.
But he was never arrested nor charged in connection with any child sex crimes over his illegal relationship with the schoolgirl.
So it's not racist to charge, prosecute, convict for murder but it would be to investigate potential** child abuse that gave rise to the murder??? Nup, something else was going on.
* Porkies -> Pork Pies -> Lies, pretty common usage deriving from cockney rhyming slang. (Also pork comes from pigs... more slang.)
** 'potential' is just legal speak, don't doubt for a minute that I think child abuse occured here
QuoteLucy Lowe, 16, was killed in 2000 along with her mother and sister after her 26-year-old abuser Azhar Ali Mehmood set fire to their house.I'll add that she was reportedly pregnant with his child again at the time of the murder-arson.
Cabbie Mehmood targeted Lucy in 1997 and she was just 14 when she gave birth to his daughter.
He was jailed for murdering Lucy, her mum Eileen and 17-year-old sister Sarah.
But he was never arrested nor charged in connection with any child sex crimes over his illegal relationship with the schoolgirl.
So it's not racist to charge, prosecute, convict for murder but it would be to investigate potential** child abuse that gave rise to the murder??? Nup, something else was going on.
You vastly underestimate the power the threat of social ostracization can have on people, as well as as the direct benefits from not being deemed racist such as having a career or not losing your job.
The report also said it was the often the work of “committed individuals not top-down directives” that continued the work. “It was, as it had been in 2006, ‘ground level’ officers and practitioners who were keeping the CSE-specific response alive,” Crowther said.
QuoteSo it's not racist to charge, prosecute, convict for murder but it would be to investigate potential** child abuse that gave rise to the murder??? Nup, something else was going on.
If you say you can't see how "one man committed arson and murder" goes down differently than "a large network of Pakistanian men were organisedly and deliberately targetting English girls in pedophilic grooming and rape rings", or how the bosses could say "we prosecute the murders but we don't follow up on the rape/abuse lead" then I think you are lying. Not that it needed saying, probably -- once a culture of hush hush has been established everyone would know what they can go after and what they need to cover up.
Chill bro, I'm not your enemy.I'm saying I'm stupid, not that you are stupid. If you want you can be stupid with me though
Gold ain't my colour anyways.
Pity I am not saying that. I was saying how 'one man committed arson and murder' went down differently than 'one and the same man committed repeated sexual abuse of a child'. To somehow turn your misreading into an accusation of lying is a bit underhanded don't you think? As to why the bosses didn't prosecute for rape etc. I can speculate but given that they were already prosecuting the same individual for murder the reason can't have been to not appear racist.
A top cop told colleagues not to review a triple murder case investigated by his detective dad.Their boss thought there was no point going for a rape case where the evidence had already gone up in flames whereas the murder case already carried the max sentence and evidence was in abudance. Of note is not that they did not choose to prosecute for rape, but that they chose not to do a follow-up investigation to the extent of the rapes. To shed some light on this as well, police in this country have a habit of "statistics management." They look bad if there are large numbers of unsolved crimes or crimes without conviction so it seems likely that the superintendent (which is the lowest ranking of the senior police ranks, but still fairly senior) was content with securing the conviction of this one guy without even considering the possibility that this was part of a much larger network of child trafficking. If there really has been something deeper beyond the stated hypersensitivity, I still haven't found anything suggesting a deeper conspiracy. I can't say I see your point
Telford abuse victim Lucy Lowe, 16, died with sister Sarah, 17, and 49-year-old mum Eileen, who was known as Linda, in a blaze started by cabbie Azhar Ali Mehmood, 25, in 2000.
Lucy met Mehmood when she was 13 and a year later had his daughter Tasnim – who survived the inferno after he placed her under a tree.
The Sunday Mirror revealed in 2018 the deaths were linked to the exploitation of hundreds of Shropshire girls.
A public inquiry sparked by our exposé is set to report on Tuesday and will examine whether the authorities failed Lucy.
We can reveal that, before the inquiry was commissioned, Supt Tom Harding signalled the Lowe case did not merit “review”.
The original murder probe was led by his father, Det Chief Insp Clive Harding, now retired. It is claimed officers were told Mehmood was part of a grooming gang. But it would be nine years before child sexual exploitation probe Operation Chalice was launched.
Of the Hardings, the force said there was no conflict of interest, adding: “In 2020, the CPS advised there was insufficient evidence to provide a realistic prospect of conviction for any sexual offences.” (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/telford-cop-asked-colleagues-not-27440590)
Personally I'm just please Patel didn't throw her hat into the ring. Might as well ask for MI5 to become the Gestapo at that point.She'd probably pick a different spook org to empower because MI5 might not be fond of her (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/23/mi5-rejects-claims-withhold-intelligence-priti-patel)
Well the Lucy Lowe decision to prosecute for murder and not for rape was just a tactical oneQuoteA top cop told colleagues not to review a triple murder case investigated by his detective dad.
Telford abuse victim Lucy Lowe, 16, died with sister Sarah, 17, and 49-year-old mum Eileen, who was known as Linda, in a blaze started by cabbie Azhar Ali Mehmood, 25, in 2000.
Lucy met Mehmood when she was 13 and a year later had his daughter Tasnim – who survived the inferno after he placed her under a tree.
The Sunday Mirror revealed in 2018 the deaths were linked to the exploitation of hundreds of Shropshire girls.
A public inquiry sparked by our exposé is set to report on Tuesday and will examine whether the authorities failed Lucy.
We can reveal that, before the inquiry was commissioned, Supt Tom Harding signalled the Lowe case did not merit “review”.
The original murder probe was led by his father, Det Chief Insp Clive Harding, now retired. It is claimed officers were told Mehmood was part of a grooming gang. But it would be nine years before child sexual exploitation probe Operation Chalice was launched.
Of the Hardings, the force said there was no conflict of interest, adding: “In 2020, the CPS advised there was insufficient evidence to provide a realistic prospect of conviction for any sexual offences.” (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/telford-cop-asked-colleagues-not-27440590)
Their boss thought there was no point going for a rape case where the evidence had already gone up in flames whereas the murder case already carried the max sentence and evidence was in abudance. Of note is not that they did not choose to prosecute for rape, but that they chose not to do a follow-up investigation to the extent of the rapes. To shed some light on this as well, police in this country have a habit of "statistics management." They look bad if there are large numbers of unsolved crimes or crimes without conviction so it seems likely that the superintendent (which is the lowest ranking of the senior police ranks, but still fairly senior) was content with securing the conviction of this one guy without even considering the possibility that this was part of a much larger network of child trafficking. If there really has been something deeper beyond the stated hypersensitivity, I still haven't found anything suggesting a deeper conspiracy. I can't say I see your point
So when the reports conclude that police were in fact aware in gross detail of it taking place over the last three decades, and aware that it was being done by the same men, and still chose to do nothing, it doesn't surprise me. Yet it still doesn't satisfy why nothing was done and why no one will ever face justice for this, or whether this kind of crime is still ongoing and we don't know about it for the exact same reasons it was allowed to happen in the first place. It gives me conniptionsit's just that I assess the 'reasons' for it happening differently.
but the pendant in me feels need to point out that1. Why did you put the pendant in you, you naughty boy? Take it out before it causes a blockage.
Should you have brooched that issue?Well I can't clasp the issue
but the pendant in me feels need to point out that1. Why did you put the pendant in you, you naughty boy? Take it out before it causes a blockage.
2. Don't listen to the pendant. It's an inanimate object.
(runs away)
“Do you believe that if you lose an election that God still loves you and has a plan for you?” he asked to applause and laughter. “I do. I still believe in miracles. God has secured your future, all of it. Yeah, even that bit.”
...
“We trust in Him. We don’t trust in governments. We don’t trust in United Nations, thank goodness,” Mr Morrison said.
...
During his address, Mr Morrison also took aim at “safe spaces” that he said had been “taken out of so much context” that they no longer meant a place between someone and God. “Don’t get me started,” Mr Morrison said.
Where I live the only day it’s not 30 or above this week is Wednesday. Then it rains, and will probably make the remainder of the week utterly horrible with extra humidity. Rinse and repeat until… I dunno, hopefully September but it might go a bit longer, and then I might get some sensible weather for a week or two until it’s too cold and starts snowing for 5 months.
Joys of the UK, we don't get dry heat it seems.
I assume being surrounded by ocean does that.
EDIT: https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1549071998369792000
Apparently Boris has lost the plot.
(Can someone remind me how to make links into text, I've forgotten in my year-long absence)
Where I live the only day it’s not 30 or above this week is Wednesday. Then it rains, and will probably make the remainder of the week utterly horrible with extra humidity. Rinse and repeat until… I dunno, hopefully September but it might go a bit longer, and then I might get some sensible weather for a week or two until it’s too cold and starts snowing for 5 months.
What's the temperature inside your house? Because at midnight last night the coldest room in my house was 28c (downstairs living room). And you can feel when you hit the wall of heat that's above that when you go upstairs.
I think you'll find we already agree Morley
Apparently something's up with Queen Elizabeth?Apparently she's currently under medical supervision at Balmoral Castle on the advice of her doctors, with the rest of the Royal Family currently gathering there. Just got to wait and see what happens.
Hindsight will make fools of most of us, eventually, no doubt.
King Louis XIV's record remains unbeaten
Hopefully you guys in Britain weren’t looking forward to anything on TV for a while, ‘cause this’ll be it for pissing ages.Currently R4 is rescheduled until 6AM tomorrow (but then that's a news-programme) and 4Extra until 6:30AM (strangely), and that's all I thought to check as interesting to me. Tomorrow's News Quiz (6;30PM, often recorded earlier, sometimes Athey say Thursdays) might be... disrupted.
oh no
Oh no
Oh dear
She met Truss and died.I don't think this bodes well for our rotten state of Britmark
Absolute power move.
Yess, Kiiing Charrlees The Thiiirrrd. Yessss.My body is not ready
She met Truss and died.There can only be one Liz in power!
Absolute power move.
So, with regard to Russia, the Washington Post published an essay (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/09/30/alexei-navalny-parliamentary-republic-russia-ukraine/) written by Alexei Navalny, the currently-jailed Putin-rival. It considers what a post-Putin Russia should be like, and why....I'm impressed they managed to get this through prison
Please note, this is not a Washington Post article and there is no reporter blah-emo-blah-emo... this is a good read.
Israel-Bourbon dynasty France crossover when?
As a Republican, the proof of Democrat deceit is amazing. Thank you.I don't think a republican government would have done any different.
Also, I don't know Khan fully either, but he won me over with this UN speech, where he (IMHO correctly) spotlight how rich world happily houses the corrupt money and people from the poor world.
Dude, I still remember Bush W. You really don't have to keep shoving my face in Republican shit. His people probably had exactly the same sort of conversation with Pakistan.As a Republican, the proof of Democrat deceit is amazing. Thank you.I don't think a republican government would have done any different.
All equals being equal, if you are free to shove people's face's in Democrat shit than other people are just as free to shove your face in Republican shit.You're probably unaware of this, but Republicans are portrayed as the "bad guys" (by their own words) 99% of the time, whereas Democrats are "slightly criticized" about 2% of the time. Articles such as this are RARE. It's why Conservatives don't trust the Mainstream Media.
That aside, we seem to agree on most politicians being shitbags.
Yes, this is politics. Still, he was apparently at least a token supporter of free elections, and more importantly did not believe that the military should run the country. So small steps in the correct direction, even if just another shitbagger.Also, I don't know Khan fully either, but he won me over with this UN speech, where he (IMHO correctly) spotlight how rich world happily houses the corrupt money and people from the poor world.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/10/4/pandora-papers-wealth-pakistan-pm-imran-khan-allies-militarySpoiler (click to show/hide)
I fear that Imran Khan said one thing and did another, or at least looked the other way when his close allies did so.
Dude, I still remember Bush W. You really don't have to keep shoving my face in Republican shit. His people probably had exactly the same sort of conversation with Pakistan.As a Republican, the proof of Democrat deceit is amazing. Thank you.I don't think a republican government would have done any different.
But see, Democrats are also shitbags. They're ALL shitbags. Stop trying to cover for Democrat shitbaggers, or we'll never be free of them.
Also:Show me an actual example of one of them (and not just someone who gladly raises their national flag in their front garden and goes all giddy in hyper-patriotic clothing at any event at which their favourite Head Of State is making an appearance - which, in the US, is pretty much likely to be the signs of a Republican) and we can perhaps talk terms on that.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
What reportedly happened to Sheikh Ali while he was being detained by 16 Israeli police officers during an alleged drug trafficking probe should offend anyone’s conscience to the core – no matter your nationality or faith.
He was blindfolded – a routine indignity that Israeli police inflict upon Palestinians to assert their impunity. They understand that they will not be held to account for what they do to Palestinians anywhere, at any time, for any reason.
All of the police officers – every one of them – either shut off or did not turn their body cameras on. These are the only conclusions that can be drawn from the failure of 16 Israeli police officers to abide by the law and enable the devices.
Sheikh Ali’s lawyer, Vadim Shub, insists he was beaten in custody – severely. A judge agreed, saying: “From the photos shown to me, it appears that the arrest was accompanied by severe violence.”
Judge Adi Bar Tal on Sunday ordered the measure, which is unusual for a suspected drug dealer who police say had resisted arrest, following an outcry over the handling of the suspect, 22-year-old Arwah Sheikh Ali from the Shuafat area in East Jerusalem.
The uproar followed a picture that emerged of bruises that looked like of the bottom part of a Star of David on the left cheek of Sheikh Ali. His lawyer, who said his client denies all charges, said that police tortured the 22-year-old and branded his face with a Star of David.
In a recent poll, one third of the population of Israel says they are considering emigrating, because of the new law that removes power from the Supreme Court. They feel Israel will no longer be a democratic secular country, and don't want to live in a religious autocracy.In a company poll where I work, over 60% of staff said they hated it there and were thinking of leaving. In the same poll, over 70% of staff said they thought they would still be working there in the next five years
It is a huge failure of Israeli intelligence and army. Like HUGE. From what I have seen, we are talking about hundreds if not thousands killed civilians.How would we know what Palestinians are thinking? It's not like anyone's allowed to ask them unless they (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/15/israeli-strikes-destroy-gaza-jalaa-tower-media-al-jazeera-associated-press) want to die (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/5/9/israel-takes-no-accountability-for-killing-journalists-cpj). In one of the War Museum over here we have a press vehicle covered in bullet holes from where the Israelis gunned it down, despite being clearly marked as a press vehicle. So the only people who get to tell us what Palestinians are thinking are the people bombing them
Also, dancing and celebrating Palestinians are morons... Do they really think that there will be no devastating response to this kind of barbarity?
It is a huge failure of Israeli intelligence and army. Like HUGE. From what I have seen, we are talking about hundreds if not thousands killed civilians.How would we know what Palestinians are thinking? It's not like anyone's allowed to ask them unless they (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/15/israeli-strikes-destroy-gaza-jalaa-tower-media-al-jazeera-associated-press) want to die (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/5/9/israel-takes-no-accountability-for-killing-journalists-cpj). In one of the War Museum over here we have a press vehicle covered in bullet holes from where the Israelis gunned it down, despite being clearly marked as a press vehicle. So the only people who get to tell us what Palestinians are thinking are the people bombing them
Also, dancing and celebrating Palestinians are morons... Do they really think that there will be no devastating response to this kind of barbarity?
In the era of the internet, it is not that hard to learn the opinions of a certain group even if we lived in a world in which Israel would manage to genocide all Palestinian and pro-Palestinian journalists. (spoiler - we don't)You come here and make all these assumptions on my motives, make all these claims without sources and then jusitfy eliminating journalists? I honestly didn't think you were that type of guy Strongpoint. I don't know what the hell you think I wrote or what you read in my sources to get this kind of response
And you know, by pointing out that Israel sometimes crosses a few lines you won't change my opinion regarding people who dance on bodies of killed people happily screaming Allah Akbar. Even damned Russians don't do this kind of stuff so openly
At best you may manage to persuade me that Israel is as monstrous as them but there is a long road ahead to prove this.
PS. Knowing Russian "journalists", I don't have a taboo on eliminating criminals just because they call themselves journalists.
This is all just sad and horrifying.Yup.
Local news report 40 killed in rocket strikes. Where's the 'hundreds or thousands' coming from?
If there are no numbers, then you should not be throwing around any numbers, no?I have developed a grim skill of estimating the number of killed by what I see in the news... We can wait but I can't see how it is not hundreds. (not thousands seeing how Israel managed to react quickly and how HAMAS started retreating sooner than I expected).
I wish we were less conditioned to form opinions on news just as they unfold.
Here's something that I learned a long time ago when I made this mistake, and that is that Hamas is not the Palestinian people, it is a terrorist organization that is in a happenstance and accidental sort of symbiotic relationship with the right wing in Israel. Neither can stay in power without their opponent, because both are examples of bad leadership.I think this was said by high ranking Isrealy politicians, it isn't a secret here, it just a dinail
Israel has declared a full siege of Gaza. They will blockade all supply of electricity, fuel, food and water.
The Israeli army has warned the population of Gaza on X that they should leave their homes and seek shelter. They say that the attacks on Israel by Hamas sadly force them to attack residential areas with Hamas targets.Literally where can they go? Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas and Israel blockades them. Every year they do the same song and dance, telling Palestinians to flee whilst they bomb them, killing thousands. This aint war it's just slaughter
After rocket attacks from Lebanon by Hezbollah, the Isaraeli army used artillery to strike at Hezbollah targets in Lebanon
I don't think Israel will destroy HAMAS, it will try but HAMAS has too much of an outside support and can go low in Gaza itself, the only realistic option to do that is to flatten or conquer Gaza , both willcause more problems to Israel.
This whole conflict is very "Turd vs poop". Seems there's only one good side and that's the civilians just trying to live their lives who are caught in the middle.One of the things I keep circling back to mentally is the reason the IDF was so out of place, the primary cause from the israeli side the attack was as bad as it was?
What I find bizarre is that nobody seems capable of any nuance - Either you're for Israel or you're for Hamas. Trying to condemn one side gets you "Oh, so you think the other side are good then?!" and trying to condemn both gets you ire from both aisles.
This whole conflict is very "Turd vs poop". Seems there's only one good side and that's the civilians just trying to live their lives who are caught in the middle.I'd suggest trying some egoism here.
What I find bizarre is that nobody seems capable of any nuance - Either you're for Israel or you're for Hamas. Trying to condemn one side gets you "Oh, so you think the other side are good then?!" and trying to condemn both gets you ire from both aisles.
I'd suggest trying some egoism here.The problem with that as a heuristic is israel isn't currently heading in a direction that stays LGBT friendly, so it's kind of a wash. Their fastest growing internal demographic is ultra-orthodox nutjobs that have little more love for the LGBT than they do for the palestinian. Right this minute, they're the better option from that perspective, but it's a "Heads, you lose now, tails, you lose later" type of deal. Which is a pretty shit deal.
Consider being on the side of the country that is the most LGBTQ-friendly (or the least LGBT-hostile) in all of the Middle East. Victory of such a country over a political entity that believes that LGBTQ people should be executed on the spot should be a good thing, no?
Their fastest growing internal demographic is ultra-orthodox nutjobs that have little more love for the LGBT than they do for the palestinian. Right this minute, they're the better option from that perspective, but it's a "Heads, you lose now, tails, you lose later" type of deal. Which is a pretty shit deal.
Also, Israel is not even close to targeting civilians. If Israel did, it would use far cheaper artillery not airforce and Gaza would be Mariupoled fast. They are caring even less than usual if civilians will die together with a single HAMAS-related target but it is not targeting civilians.
So far it seems you feel Palestinians (not just Hamas, but I assume not the Israeli ones) are so far removed from your standards of morality that they have forsaken all the good will you might have had for them. Is this a correct characterisation?
I believe that the Gaza Strip is a mini Third Reich.I'm not sure this analogy is anymore apt than it being another Warsaw under Nazi occupation. But it is similarly suspect for strongly colouring the perception one way or another.
You will keep hearing such comparisons, because there is a point of commonality - living under occupation. That is sufficient. Nobody says the two situations are the same (I hope) but people will want to know why you have no sympathy for Palestinians given that particular starting point. Getting insulted at that makes you look irrational.The Russian partisans in the DPR and LPR also believed that they lived under occupation by Ukraine. Do you think of them the same way you do Palestine?
So far it seems you feel Palestinians (not just Hamas, but I assume not the Israeli ones) are so far removed from your standards of morality that they have forsaken all the good will you might have had for them. Is this a correct characterisation?
I believe that the Gaza Strip is a mini Third Reich.I'm not sure this analogy is anymore apt than it being another Warsaw under Nazi occupation. But it is similarly suspect for strongly colouring the perception one way or another.
Even though I think the original comparison isn't great, it is important to note the war crimes and crimes against humanity Israel has done, unless Ukraine has done such crimes as well your comparison is pointlessYou will keep hearing such comparisons, because there is a point of commonality - living under occupation. That is sufficient. Nobody says the two situations are the same (I hope) but people will want to know why you have no sympathy for Palestinians given that particular starting point. Getting insulted at that makes you look irrational.The Russian partisans in the DPR and LPR also believed that they lived under occupation by Ukraine. Do you think of them the same way you do Palestine?
So far it seems you feel Palestinians (not just Hamas, but I assume not the Israeli ones) are so far removed from your standards of morality that they have forsaken all the good will you might have had for them. Is this a correct characterisation?
Even though I think the original comparison isn't great, it is important to note the war crimes and crimes against humanity Israel has done, unless Ukraine has done such crimes as well your comparison is pointlessYou will keep hearing such comparisons, because there is a point of commonality - living under occupation. That is sufficient. Nobody says the two situations are the same (I hope) but people will want to know why you have no sympathy for Palestinians given that particular starting point. Getting insulted at that makes you look irrational.The Russian partisans in the DPR and LPR also believed that they lived under occupation by Ukraine. Do you think of them the same way you do Palestine?
So far it seems you feel Palestinians (not just Hamas, but I assume not the Israeli ones) are so far removed from your standards of morality that they have forsaken all the good will you might have had for them. Is this a correct characterisation?
Furthermore, I guarantee you that there were war crimes committed by Ukrainian troops. There are no wars with no war crimes, especially when, like in 2014, many units are hastily armed civilians with loose organizationYes, and in both cases, you are also talking about heavy involvement by irregular far-right militias acting on long-simmering intra-community ethnic tensions.
Are there sources to the claims of Ukrainian war crimes besides those republics, I am aware various human rights ngo's and the UN are not some neutral arbiters so it's not need to be something on the scale of declarations against Russia, but some source which isn't propaganda.Amnesty International (https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/09/ukraine-must-stop-ongoing-abuses-and-war-crimes-pro-ukrainian-volunteer-forces/) and Human Rights Watch (https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2015/country-chapters/ukraine) have both documented examples, especially relating to mentioned far-right militias.
As for the claim of black and white, where did I say that, what I said is that some comparisons are more accurate then others, I will admit my mistake that I thought you responded to a different post.I said that you have to acknowledge the likelihood that no war is ever conducted perfectly cleanly unless you demand your morality fables to be strictly black-and-white. If you don't, then it's insane to dismiss reports against the side you prefer as propaganda altogether.
Apparently lebanon has sent a force to infiltrate north israel
Other nations in middle east seem very eager to join in against israel
Its almost seemingly the start of a massive global war in the middle east, at least it seems like it to me. And peace at this point doesn't look like its going to be a thing.
But many "de jure" war crimes are, actually, quite justifiable when they are effective methods to win a war and not just senseless cruelty.
I am sure that after the war crimes HAMAS committed, it is very tempting to state that certain war crimes by Israel should be all fine and acceptable for the time being, but that is an extremely slippery slope. Slippery with the blood of innocent people.Without taking a position on the larger dispute, I'm guessing you're not really familiar with what things are actually war crimes. Most of them don't involve any innocent people, like perfidy. Most people seem to have a highly distorted understanding of what war crimes are, both ways.
Israel is wise to be preparing for an attack from another direction....did nobody tell you? They've already been attacked along the northern border (with Syria and Lebanon), reportedly by Hezbollah.
My thinking is that starting this war was a dumb move. There's nothing to be gained in a relatively small strike against civilians, and too much has been spent smuggling in munitions and somehow keeping the attack secret, for them to waste it like that. 4000 rockets could have done a lot of damage to military and government infrastructure instead. I think either the leadership has been bribed to start the war, or they have been given reassurances that they won't be fighting alone.
I want to see this war over with Israel's victory as soon as possible. I hope Israel will show restraint. More restraint than they do now, because I do believe that they do cross the line here and there. But the decisions they make aren't easy and wars aren't pretty. And many of the war crimes allegations made by corrupt, useless, and hypocritical organizations like HRW, AI, UN are laughable and impossible to avoid in any real war.
Israel has urged 1.1 million people in Northern Gaza to flee to the south within 24 hours (https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2023-10-13/israel-orders-the-evacuation-of-1-1-million-people-from-northern-part-of-gaza-the-un-says), because that’s feasible, especially considering it’s a week after they stopped fuel from getting in.
Israel has urged 1.1 million people in Northern Gaza to flee to the south within 24 hours (https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2023-10-13/israel-orders-the-evacuation-of-1-1-million-people-from-northern-part-of-gaza-the-un-says), because that’s feasible, especially considering it’s a week after they stopped fuel from getting in.
So... Isreal is starting on finally finishing the job?
If by finishing you mean "entering into a brutal urban fighting that will be a bloodbath before establishing an occupation regime that will need to deal with resistance for a long time while also risking a wider war with Iran and its proxies" then yes, looks like it.
You know, it occurs to me that you hardly ever hear acknowledgement that Egypt also blockades Palestine.
USA is sending a second aircraft carrier to the region
If Iran decides to declare war, I guess we will find out if Israel does actually have nukes or not.
I am so disgusted by the amount of photos and videos from Syria presented as ones from Gaza. I am even more disgusted that they get way more attention than when they were posted for the first time. I am getting flashbacks of how I, in early 2010s, was shocked at how the world could ignore Syria... How naive I was.
____________________
More and more firefights on the Israeli-Lebanon and Israeli-Syria borders... Traffic between Iran and Lebanon\Syria is also increasing day by day. Israel may regret postponing the invasion of Gaza as they give Iran time to organize a two-front war.
What I find pleasantly surprising - The West Bank is very, very calm considering the situation. I hope it is not calm before the storm...
This is indeed the most concerned I've been in my life that we're approaching WWIII.
Idiots.
The Voice referendum, as tabled, was an incredibly misbegotten terrible idea that would do nothing to support indigenous communities (which is why many opposed it). It didn't really have much of a chance.
It hasn't. No one likes Hamas. The issue at concern as I read it is whether a ground invasion is going to result in massive casualties or result in displacement as both of these would be a disaster that puts at risk what could be an alliance, and in addition would incur massive political penalties at a time when Donald Trump looks to be the candidate if he's not in jail. Weird parallels huh
Israel is almost certainly to get funding (I think $10B was requested; it should be linked with Ukraine funding from what I've read and some other junk if they don't completely screw up), has two big nasty aircraft carriers nearby and even a couple thousand US marines IIRC in a support role.
That's the misbegotten terrible idea: there's absolutely no plan. The government asked the people to authorize some hypothetical future arrangement TBD. This is exactly the problem indigenous communities had with it: they don't, quite reasonably in my opinion, trust the government to actually constitute this body which has no binding limitations whatsoever in a way to actually represent their interests, and not, say... form a panel of pale-looking bureaucrats to brownwash the government's already-planned agenda through a mirage of support from "aboriginal voices", like they already do with white academics trading on a supposed indigenous great-grandmother.The Voice referendum, as tabled, was an incredibly misbegotten terrible idea that would do nothing to support indigenous communities (which is why many opposed it). It didn't really have much of a chance.
Well, I actually just went to look and it appeared to be this only:
Chapter IX Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples
129 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice
In recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Peoples of Australia:
There shall be a body, to be called the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice;
The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice may make representations to the Parliament and the Executive Government of the Commonwealth on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples;
The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, including its composition, functions, powers and procedures.
It is astonishing how Israel already lost the informational war in the West. I assumed it was impossible after 1000+ Israeli civilians were brutally murdered on the first day but nope.
Edit: and an Israeli bomb hit a school where 4,000 people were sheltering (https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/official-statements/gaza-unrwa-school-sheltering-displaced-families-hit).That strikes me as a somewhat naive takeaway. For example, Ukrainian bombs have been confirmed to have (on occasion) hit schools, children, and worse; is it because leadership don't care where their bombs fall?
There must come a point when even the most ardent supporter of Israel will come to the conclusion that the folk in charge don’t even care where their bombs fall.
Edit: and an Israeli bomb hit a school where 4,000 people were sheltering (https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/official-statements/gaza-unrwa-school-sheltering-displaced-families-hit).That strikes me as a somewhat naive takeaway. For example, Ukrainian bombs have been confirmed to have (on occasion) hit schools, children, and worse; is it because leadership don't care where their bombs fall?
There must come a point when even the most ardent supporter of Israel will come to the conclusion that the folk in charge don’t even care where their bombs fall.
Collateral damage is unavoidable at war. The question is how much of it happens and what effort is taken to prevent it. And Israel does not do enough or, at the very least, creates such an impression.This may be fair, but it's worth considering that Hamas takes an active strategy of maximizing collateral damage to make its enemy look bad, and has a friendly media empire more than willing to go along with it. Under such circumstances, is it possible to prosecute a war successfully and not create such an impression?
Ukraine has at the very least given the appearance they try to hit military targets.Edit: and an Israeli bomb hit a school where 4,000 people were sheltering (https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/official-statements/gaza-unrwa-school-sheltering-displaced-families-hit).That strikes me as a somewhat naive takeaway. For example, Ukrainian bombs have been confirmed to have (on occasion) hit schools, children, and worse; is it because leadership don't care where their bombs fall?
There must come a point when even the most ardent supporter of Israel will come to the conclusion that the folk in charge don’t even care where their bombs fall.
Collateral damage is unavoidable at war. The question is how much of it happens and what effort is taken to prevent it. And Israel does not do enough or, at the very least, creates such an impression.This may be fair, but it's worth considering that Hamas takes an active strategy of maximizing collateral damage to make its enemy look bad, and has a friendly media empire more than willing to go along with it. Under such circumstances, is it possible to prosecute a war successfully and not create such an impression?
@MaxSpin: I was providing context for my view, but I’m distracted by things happening in my immediate surroundings so it was, and is, proving difficult to recall what it is I wanted to say and how much of it I’d already said. Same shit happens when I play mafia :|Oh, no, I think I understood what you meant, I'm just saying, yeah, I get that Israel has done some shit and it's not unreasonable to expect them to continue. Just trying to clearly establish that my own view, which I could summarize as that their relative shittiness is overstated, also takes place in the same context. I doubt there's ultimately much distance between any of our positions here.
The current situation with the hospital is such a bright illustration of how Israel is losing the informational war.
It seems like nearly everyone accepts claims that
1) there are 500 dead
2) It is a result of Israeli airstrike
as facts despite the only source of both statements is HAMAS.
PS. I find it utterly absurd that Israel is condemned for refusing to supply key resources like electricity and fuel directly to the enemy.
I don’t think people are just accepting it though.
@MaxSpin: I was providing context for my view, but I’m distracted by things happening in my immediate surroundings so it was, and is, proving difficult to recall what it is I wanted to say and how much of it I’d already said. Same shit happens when I play mafia :|Oh, no, I think I understood what you meant, I'm just saying, yeah, I get that Israel has done some shit and it's not unreasonable to expect them to continue. Just trying to clearly establish that my own view, which I could summarize as that their relative shittiness is overstated, also takes place in the same context. I doubt there's ultimately much distance between any of our positions here.
I don’t think people are just accepting it though.
I have already seen Trudeau and Erdogan condemning the Israeli strike as if it is a proven fact.
Edit: https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1714378735854448811
For me, it is enough evidence to reasonably assume that it was a misfired rocket. I'll need a serious proof to change my mind
I meant to reply to this but go distracted. I don’t think you support Israel, you just asked a interesting and reasonable question that required a clarification between what I consider to be Israel’s unreasonable/excessive response to terrorists versus what appears to be Ukraine’s more measured response to what basically also amounts to terrorism, while trying to juggle a couple of other things at the same time and letting my frustration at being unable to juggle everything bleed through a bit.I feel like I may have come off as too accusatory. I didn't mean that I thought you thought I supported Israel, although I did figure you might be unsure. I didn't mean, either, to give the impression that I thought there was anything wrong with what you said... I just wanted to be clear that I'm really focusing just on the issue of "caring where their bombs fall" and not other faults.
You usually have a more nuanced view than you let on, whether that’s your fault or the person reading it, so I try not to make judgements of your position until you explicitly take one.
There are peope on the ground trying to confirm what’s going on, but I don’t think it’s an unreasonable conclusion to draw that the country dropping bombs on Gaza is possibly at fault for this, just as it’s not unreasonable to conclude that the terrorist organization in charge of Gaza might be performing false flag operations, I just consider the latter to be less likely than the former.
That's the misbegotten terrible idea: there's absolutely no plan. The government asked the people to authorize some hypothetical future arrangement TBD. This is exactly the problem indigenous communities had with it: they don't, quite reasonably in my opinion, trust the government to actually constitute this body which has no binding limitations whatsoever in a way to actually represent their interests, and not, say... form a panel of pale-looking bureaucrats to brownwash the government's already-planned agenda through a mirage of support from "aboriginal voices", like they already do with white academics trading on a supposed indigenous great-grandmother.The Voice referendum, as tabled, was an incredibly misbegotten terrible idea that would do nothing to support indigenous communities (which is why many opposed it). It didn't really have much of a chance.
Well, I actually just went to look and it appeared to be this only:
Chapter IX Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples
129 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice
In recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Peoples of Australia:
There shall be a body, to be called the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice;
The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice may make representations to the Parliament and the Executive Government of the Commonwealth on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples;
The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, including its composition, functions, powers and procedures.
It's almost a mocking affront to the whole concept of a referendum. "Do you agree with the statement that we should have at least one law?" - and if voters choose yes, the government decides for itself what law to implement.
The entire rest of your post is totally irrelevant to this. Yes, some people said crazy things, like happens every time any law with any media coverage passes anywhere. You have zero evidence that any of this actually affected a single vote. (Although that one near the end was especially funny to me... "she didn't say that voters were racist and stupid, just that they have opinions based in racism and stupidity! Totally different!")
ETA: I mean... think of it like this. If the proposal did not include the name, and just said that there shall be a body that may make representations to Parliament, to be constituted by the Parliament... would you support this? It's like an exploratory committee to consider the formation of further committees. There's no indication whatsoever that it has any purpose. Supporters are just getting duped by the name, which implies a purpose... but has no legal meaning. Anything that has an actual practical effect is just TBD. Why would anyone vote for that?
That kind of body has been common in the internet regulation bills at least, which are the most recent bills I've been paying attention to. They are to be formed after the bill is law, and then further set policy. That's even more than advising. This leads me to believe it's extremely common. As to to indiginous support, I had read of an organization that were in opposition due to the lack of sweeping change, but even incremental steps are positive and possibly necessary in an environment of big money politics, such as buying botfarms, so I think they were wrong to reject the first offer as getting the second will now be much, much longer if ever. Also the article I read months ago suggested most of the organizations were in support.Okay but you get that this is a problem, right? If the enabling law is just "give power to a committee TBD", that's fundamentally undemocratic. Doubly so as a referendum, since that amounts to the government asking the voters for a blank check. It's an incredibly stupid idea which people are duped into supporting by a combination of misinformation (eg, being told 'this committee would do X' when the committee has no actual mandate to do X) and ignorance.
The idea that what I said has no impact only rings true if absolutely nothing whatsoever can move the average voter. That's ridiculous. The average voter is extremely vulnerable to being bombarded by absolute nonsense. If they weren't, people wouldn't pay for bots or organize trolling rings to harass internet communities.It's not about whether voters are vulnerable to it - although do you have any actual proof of this statement? - but that mistaken or misinformed criticisms don't detract from the reality of the actual important valid criticism.
I wonder if all the pro-Palestinian protestors that were protesting at Israeli embassies all over the world last evening will go protest against Hamas as well, if it turns out to be true that they bombed the hospital.
I wonder if any of "reputable" media and NGOs will apologize for the misinformation or at least stop treating HAMAS as a reliable source.As I see it, the core problem is that Qatar's actual state-run propaganda outlet somehow got a reputation for being a serious major news source which western sources (even the BBC) reprint without checking, on the excuse that "they're only propaganda when it's about Qatar"... as if the Qatari government somehow never developed the technology of having opinions on foreign affairs. I think this came about because, about 20 years ago, they were saying the things people wanted to hear about the evil American empire, and nobody back then was worried about the fact that they were doing it purely out of a desire to actively carry water for Iran and, by extension, Russia.
Didn't the defence minister self congratulate before deleting the tweet? idk I'm not active on twitter
I saw the pictures of the damage released by Palestinian authorities, and... yeah. It is nowhere close to a hospiral being levelled by a bomb. It was a courtyard of cars in the complex being caught in a blaze. No structural damage to any buildings visible. I cannot imagine there are anything remotely close to five hundred casualties from this. Perhaps except if they were packed like sardines in the parking lot, for some reason, but even that strains credulity.
Though in general it seems Israel's PR team isn't doing a great job in other ways.
… even when no criminal charges are filed, some people in Israel are still facing heavy consequences for their social media activity.
Lawyers working for Adalah say they have received more than 40 cases of Israeli Arab workers suspended or fired from their workplaces overnight.
"People are getting their livelihood threatened sometimes just for liking a post," says Salam Irsheid, a lawyer at the organisation. "We even have a case of a worker who is at risk of being fired for liking a news report on the situation in Gaza on social media."
Lawyers from Adalah say they have received complaints from 83 students who have been suspended from schools across the country and, in some cases, told to leave their accommodation at short notice.
"None of the cases are about actions, demonstrations or participating in illegal things. They're all about posts on social media," says Dr Hassan Jabareen, the general director of Adalah.
Last Sunday, a prominent left-wing ultra-Orthodox Jewish journalist, Israel Frey, had to be escorted by police away from his home in Tel Aviv for his own protection.
Protesters had gathered outside the building and shot flares at his apartment after he posted on social media a video where he was praying for civilians in Gaza.
And on Wednesday, Ofer Cassif, a Jewish lawmaker for the Arab-led Hadash-Taal alliance, was suspended from the Israeli parliament for 45 days after he strongly condemned the bombing of Gaza.
In one of his most recent posts on X, formerly known as Twitter, he criticised the police who, he said, hadn't intervened promptly in Mr Frey's defence.
"Armed police forces are sent to arrest anyone who shows a trace of empathy for the massacres in Gaza," he wrote.
"But the police have no desire to protect a left-wing journalist whose life is in danger."
The incident began when two armed settlers, accompanied by a soldier, attacked a home on the outskirts of the village, according to three residents including the homeowner.
"Three Israelis came to my house, they were armed, and one was wearing the uniform of the army," said Musab Rabai, 36.
"One of the settlers came into the house, pushed me and beat me on the head with the gun and told me he was going to shoot me."
Neighbours responded to Rabai's shouts for help, he said. Among them was Zakriha Adra, a father of four. Video footage filmed by Adra's cousin, Basel, shows the settler who allegedly beat Rabai and the Israeli soldier standing a short distance away from the group of Palestinian neighbours. The armed settler then suddenly approaches Adra, strikes him with his rifle and shoots him in the stomach from just a few feet away.
Throughout the encounter, Adra appears to be holding his arms by his sides in a non-threatening manner.
Residents told the BBC that they had not expected the bombing as the area had been relatively calm. They said they were told to evacuate on Thursday evening at around 20:30 to 21:00 local time (17:30-18:00 GMT).
"We ran through the streets. then Israel started bombing this area non-stop, from 9pm to 7am this morning," one woman told the BBC on Friday.
In northern Gaza, the Palestinian Red Crescent said Israeli forces had ordered the evacuation of the Al-Quds hospital.
The hospital is currently home to more than 400 patients and 12,000 displaced civilians, according to the Red Crescent.
The humanitarian organisation called on the "international community to act urgently".
A doctors' group, Physicians for Human Rights Israel, said it filed a petition to Israel's Supreme Court warning that Al-Quds hospital could not be evacuated.
"In its response, the state announced that it would not attack the hospital for the time being," the group said, as it warned against harming civilians during combat, violating international law, and damaging medical services.
Speaking on Friday, Deputy Assistant Commissioner Ade Adelekan, the officer in charge of the policing operation, said the number of antisemitic and Islamophobic incidents had gone up 1,353% [from 15 to 218] and 140% [42 to 101] respectively.
Israel hated the UN for a long time, not particularly surprised by that.
What did the UN said? is it about the hospital? because I missed the news about it here and the only bit I saw was about the fact that the original HAMAS attack was not a context-less event and Israel was an oppressor beforehand, which is true.
1) "Context" has nothing to do with this. If a person will go and try to kill me\my loved ones I have full right to respond with deadly force. And this right doesn't go away if I (or my ancestors) did something bad to this person (or their ancestors). Even if it is something truly horrible. The only thing I may be judged for are past crimes. My legitimate self-defense is still legitimate.I mean, Hamas managed to pull off the attack largely because the IDF was over on west bank giving cover for illegal israeli settlers lynching people. Context kinda' does matter. It doesn't excuse the particular atrocities hamas got up to any more than it did comanche raids back in the day, but trying to boil any of this down to self-defense leaves you with a very messy stew, especially considering how staggeringly disparate things are on the capability and actual impact front. There's only one side of this conflict that's actually under existential threat, at this point in particular and even prior to the slaughter raid, and it damn sure ain't Israel.
Since the early 2000s, Gaza is not an occupied territory and HAMAS aren't resistance fighters. Such wars do work differently but it is not what we have there in 2023. Gaza is a de facto country. It has its own borders. It has its own independent government. It has its own armed forces. It is a country and should be treated as such. Formal recognition is that - formal.This, however, is nonsense. Gaza doesn't have armed forces, they have a terrorist group hiding in a city, and if they actually tried to organize something formal the IDF would have flattened it. Its government is no more independent than the biggest prison gang in a penitentiary. They have no control over their borders, trade, infrastructure, anything. It's an occupied territory by any definition of the term that makes sense. Paper-thin excuses for why it's totally-not-we-swear are just that, thin as paper.
It means that Palestinians and Gaza are different entities. And Gaza is in no way shape or form fully dependent on Israel. Especially with the border with Egypt. And perhaps, If they would invest more in infrastructure and less in its armed forces, they wouldn't even need electricity and water from Israel.The unfortunate and traditional Israeli response to trying to build infrastructure in Gaza has been to bomb it. A great deal of the reason there hasn't been much efforts to do that is because what organizations that are there are entirely aware they don't get to decide whether or not they actually get to use anything they build, and the likely answer to anything substantial is going to be "No", either due to the terrorists that murdered their last government and took over or the folks on the other side of the prison fence with artillery, air support, and a fondness for targeting civilian infrastructure.
This, however, is nonsense. Gaza doesn't have armed forces, they have a terrorist group hiding in a city, and if they actually tried to organize something formal the IDF would have flattened it. Its government is no more independent than the biggest prison gang in a penitentiary. They have no control over their borders, trade, infrastructure, anything. It's an occupied territory by any definition of the term that makes sense. Paper-thin excuses for why it's totally-not-we-swear are just that, thin as paper.
There's only one side of this conflict that's actually under existential threat, at this point in particular and even prior to the slaughter raid, and it damn sure ain't Israel.
And yeah, Israel needs to find a way to destroy those tunnels, which are totally military objects, in its war with Gaza. It is what countries do at war - destroy enemy assets.
It is outright wrong to compare Gaza to a prison and Hamas to a gang. There are no Israeli forces in Gaza to enforce anything since 2005. Gaza is de facto self-governed. And those armed guys are de facto guys that not only defend this territory but also conduct offensive operations aka Armed Forces. Things are what they are, not what they are called or what they are recognized as.Israel's regularly gone into gaza to do whatever it pleases or bombed it as punishment for one thing or another for longer than hamas has had bloody handed control over the strip. You don't have to be inside something you've walled off if you control its airspace and every meaningful exit and have enough artillery pointed at it to level most of it. Israel abrogating responsibility for the territory while still maintaining de-facto control at will doesn't mean the place is self-governed. It just means Israel's been playing fuckfuck games with the definition of occupation and whether or not Gaza is actually a state or not (about as much as Transkei or Rehoboth were, if that).
What do you even mean by "no control over their borders, trade or infrastructure?" As far as I can see people can't get into Gaza without asking for permission (or going with military force), they obliviously trade (they don't make their rockets out of thin air) and they obliviously control their own infrastructure.They've been blockaded for over a decade, their infrastructure only exists and functions to the extent israel (and egypt, to a lesser extent) allows (and israel has a history of not allowing it -- and we're actively seeing that gaza doesn't have control over power, food imports, etc.), we're literally seeing a situation where no one's letting the people of gaza escape the strip and there's sod all they can do about it, so on and so forth. Limited smuggling capability is no more a common conceptualization of "trade" than the market for cigs is in a jail. Infrastructure that's controlled by other entities literally isn't yours. Etc., etc., etc.
If an obliviously enemy who wants your total destruction is currently too week to do so, it doesn't mean that this enemy is not a threat to your existence.I mean, by this metric the people of iraq or iran, the middle east in general, china, probably others, would be justified in calling a good quarter or third of the US population at a minimum an existential threat, and Hamas actually has good targets of much of the Israeli population.
Possibly because not all of the millions of people who live in Gaza are members of Hamas, and the Iron Dome defense system shoots down upwards of 90% of the missiles that have a trajectory toward Israeli cities, and Gaza has no equivalent defense system against Israeli weapons.Not all millions of Germans living in the Third Reich were Nazis... But it was Third Reich that shot V rockets in Britain and it was the Third Reich that received carpet bombing. Gaza is also hostile to Israel not merely Hamas.
Israel's regularly gone into gaza to do whatever it pleases or bombed it as punishment for one thing or another for longer than hamas has had bloody handed control over the strip. You don't have to be inside something you've walled off if you control its airspace and every meaningful exit and have enough artillery pointed at it to level most of it. Israel abrogating responsibility for the territory while still maintaining de-facto control at will doesn't mean the place is self-governed. It just means Israel's been playing fuckfuck games with the definition of occupation and whether or not Gaza is actually a state or not (about as much as Transkei or Rehoboth were, if that).
Hamas can want genocide all it wants, it's not bloody capable of it, never has been, and almost certainly never will be. It takes more than intent to be a threat, much less an existential one. You have to have the capability on top of willingness to exercise it, and for all its terribleness a comanche style raid counts for that a hell of a lot less than the steady encroachment and slaughter israel's been doing to the palestinian people for basically its entire post WW2 existence.At the very least, Gaza is a valuable ally in a larger war when other nations will once again decide that Israel should not exist. So yes, it is a part of the existential threat.
They don’t take the forcibly displaced because there’s a genuine fear they wouldn’t be allowed back in, as well as the possibility that militants get out and launch attacks from host countries.
What you described is Israel being a hostile country to Gaza and using its armed forces to do hostile actions. By your definition, NATO occupied Yugoslavia in 1999, and USA periodically occupies... MANY countries. Oh and ALL of Ukraine is currently occupied by Russia because their missile regularly hit all regionsI mean, they do, and the word you're looking for is "Bantustan" (though that's more accurately applied to the state of the west bank) or "Reservation" at its most charitable. If you think those were independent self-governed entities that weren't (or aren't, for the ones still around) militarily controlled by their possessing neighbor, I got bridges to sell you.
Words have meanings!
Oh... and Israel doesn't just strike Gaza for no reason. It always happens in retaliation to attacks coming from Gaza. Retaliation, not punishment. Plain and simple self-defense.It's consistently grossly disproportionate and aimed -- from what I recall, with explicit acknowledgement of it by leadership within Israel -- at collective punishment of the gaza population, not retaliation against any particular attack. It's why the IDF is so fond of targeting civilian infrastructure and residential buildings even when they're entirely aware the actual military impact of doing so is somewhere between minimal to non-existent and actively detrimental. It's neither plain, nor simple, and only the barest fig leaf of self-defense.
But... OK... let's assume that Gaza is not an existential threat at all... it is just a threat that is, evidently, capable of killing over 0.01% of your population in a single strike. Should Israel just ignore this "small nuisance?" If not, in what way do you propose to negate this non-existent threat?Look to south africa, to a number of other places with similar conditions. It would not be clean because there's no clean solution left at this point, and probably hasn't been anything even approaching one since the israeli far-right murdered Rabin at the absolute latest, but integration of a bantustan or something adjacent to, but hopefully more functional and less abusive than, the US or Canada treatment of the natives, is probably the only option that doesn't lead to the eventual genocide of most or all of the relevant palestinian populations. Israel has been incredibly clear it's not going to stop fucking up the populations in the west bank and gaza, so it needs to get off its ass and take responsibility for the authority they're practicing.
And you are completely missing my point. I am saying that it is absurd to even take into account if people were killed or not. Intent is what matters when you determine what is a justified response, not a result. I see no difference in the moral evaluation of an action that tried to kill thousands and an action that managed to kill thousands.Then you've got a problem in regards to moral evaluation of this conflict -- because Israel has both tried and managed to kill thousands, repeatedly, so you're dealing with at best equivalent moral actors. If there's no moral difference between those things, then there's no moral difference between the fuckers that toss a grenade into a nursery and the fuckers that pulp a family with a pressure wave, especially if both groups have significant voices calling for mass slaughter and the removal, by grave or eviction, of the relevant populations.
I mean, they do, and the word you're looking for is "Bantustan" (though that's more accurately applied to the state of the west bank) or "Reservation" at its most charitable. If you think those were independent self-governed entities that weren't (or aren't, for the ones still around) militarily controlled by their possessing neighbor, I got bridges to sell you.South African Bantustans were a facade and a lie. Their so-called governments were puppets of the Apartheid regime and were not de-facto self-governing.
The only reason Israel's control over that isn't explicit is because they intentionally abandoned it instead of wanting clear responsibility for the mess Gaza had been turned into. It didn't remove that responsibility, Israel just very deliberately tried to abrogate it.
I think people are sufficiently aware enough that the Israeli government /=/ Jews in general.
Weird to see such a helpful to Putin narrativePutin's narrative in this new little war is that Israel is bad, Hamas is good
Also, looking at all those "pro-Palestinian" protests across the globe and how they only increase in intensity... What is your prediction, in which country we will see the first pogrom? My bet is Canada.
Israel's been training their army for a long time. On top of that, Hamas is hardly equivalent to a nation-state's army.
Ukraine on the other hand had a lot of severe issues with the military until 2014 when Russia annexed Crimea. They had insufficient time to properly develop their military. On top of that, Russia *is* a nation-state with an airforce and a huge population to draw from, as well as large amounts of native arms production.
I don't recall the source, but I've also heard Ukraine has been deemed the most corrupt country in Europe. I suspect that would have also severely degraded the effectiveness of their armed forces.
Er… Trump moved the US embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, and wants to extend his Muslim ban to Gaza, plus increased ideological screening for people coming into the US, which will likely be a “do you support Hamas? Tick yes or no” on the paper you fill in before coming to the US. He’s not pro-Hamas, he’s just an idiot.
We’ve finally been able to make it over Vauxhall Bridge to the south of the river, along the protest route.
What strikes me is the amount of people coming back over the bridge - effectively retracing the steps of the march, and then dispersing.
More seem to be making their way back from the US Embassy - the location of the end of the march - towards Victoria station and Westminster.
Chants critical of PM Rishi Sunak are repeated over a megaphone and there is a smoky smell from some flares which have been set off.
I haven't seen any trouble from these crowds of people.
They’re calling for an end to the conflict not the extermination of the Jews.
They’re calling for an end to the conflict not the extermination of the Jews.Yeah, sure. It is all about supporting victims of a conflict!
No. It is not about caring about innocent victims, we have many wars with innocent victims, and they don't gather crowds.
It is not about caring about the right of a nation to self-determination because I fail to see protests supporting, for example, Kurds, against whom Turkey takes unlawful military action quite regularly.
MORE than 20,000 took to the streets of London today as people came from across the country to oppose Turkey’s war on the Kurdish people of northern Syria.
The demonstration is believed to be the largest ever organised by the Kurdish community in Britain as they took to the streets to “Rise up for Rojava” – the largely Kurdish region under attack by the Turkish state.
It was part of a global day of action as outrage grows over the illegal invasion being conducted by Nato’s second largest army allied with jihadist mercenaries from the Syrian National Army – also known as the Free Syrian Army.
The demonstration took place as France imposed an arms embargo against Turkey, whose right-wing President Recep Tayyip Erdogan exploited the departure of US troops from the region to invade Rojava, the Kurdish region of Syria.
It isn't Muslim solidarity because I see no anti-Chinese protest, who outright ban Islam in a Muslim region and keep Muslims in concentration camps.
Hundreds of protesters rallied outside the Chinese Embassy in London on Saturday calling for the freedom of Uyghur muslims, as the official building took down its flag, according to protest organisers and eyewitnesses.I should also add there is a nearly all-year round awareness campaign held by Falun Gong outside the British museum. They are pretty useful despite their small number as many Chinese tourists believe Falun Gong are a death cult and the Chinese government are "saving" them, and are shocked to find out the Chinese government is harvesting their organs. (https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2021/06/china-un-human-rights-experts-alarmed-organ-harvesting-allegations)
The protest was organised by Islam21C - a project set up to provide digital representation for British muslims - with support from over 50 Muslim organisations and was attended by over 2,500 demonstrators, Islam21C told The New Arab.
Protesters took to the streets and social media using the hashtag #Stand4Uyghurs to demand the shutdown of China's concentration camps, which experts estimate over one million muslims have been incarcerated in, in a Beijing crackdown against those practising Islam in Xinjiang.
It isn't solidarity with Arabs either, few gave an F when Assad, together with non-Arab intervents in the form of Russia and Iran, killed Arabs in masse. Neither is there any interest in stopping the war in Sudan...
The Labour leader told MPs: "There will be some in this house who say that Britain should not contemplate action even when it is limited, because we do not know precisely the consequences that will follow.UK narrowly avoided declaring war on Assad largely out of post-Iraq and Libyan war wariness. MPs had grown tired of blowing up Arab states and handing the reins to terrorists. It was around the time some of the moderate rebels Cameron suggested we arm started cutting people's hearts out and eating them on camera that public opinion turned against intervention, as Cameron could not make a case that this war wouldn't produce more insecurity, not less, or that it would not escalate with Russia, or that it would not result in a ground deployment of British troops. Actions targeting ISIS however proved more successful. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Shader)
"As I said, I am not with those who rule out action, and the horrific events unfolding in Syria ask us to consider all available options, but we owe it to the Syrian people, to our own country and to the future security of our world to scrutinise any plans on the basis of the consequences they will have."
However one senior Labour MP Jim Fitzpatrick resigned as a shadow minister before the vote, saying he was "opposed to military intervention in Syria, full stop".
Senior Tories criticised the government. David Davis, a former Tory leadership candidate and shadow home secretary said: "We must consider, being where we've been before in this House, that our intelligence as it stands might just be wrong because it was before and we have got to be very, very hard in testing it."
Cheryl Gillan, a former Wales secretary under Cameron, said: "I do not have enough accurate or verifiable information to support direct UK military action in Syria." Recalling the vote on Iraq, she said she was cautious because she "cannot sit in this House and be duped again".
But Bernard Jenkin, the chairman of the commons public administration committee, called on the House of Commons to stop "post-Iraq panic paralysing the country".
What makes this conflict unique? Israel is one of the sides, that's what. It means that the core motivation of those protests is either hatred of specifically Israel or hatred towards "the West" and "its Israeli outpost on Muslim lands" or good old antisemitism.UK government opposed Turkey's invasion of Kurds in Syria & criticised the US government publicly for withdrawing its troops from Kurdish areas. (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/08/uk-voices-concerns-over-a-turkish-invasion-of-kurdish-run-syria) UK government stance on Syria, Russia, China, Iran et cetera speaks for itself. Notably, in all those cases British public and British government opinions align. You're really comparing countries where British government policy is to oppose the offensive actions of other states to one where the British government is arming the state and politically supporting the state it recognises as illegally occupying another (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-statement-on-israeli-settlements-january-2021). It would be very hard for the British public not to notice when both Labour and Conservative party leadership announced immediate and vociferous support for Israeli military action, opposed any ceasefire calls, and have sent for the deployment of a Royal Navy taskgroup & RAF assets from Akrotioi to support Israel. You would see similar protests if the UK government suddenly decided tomorrow it was pro-Russia and sending weapons to Putin
Besides, I am neither deaf nor blind. I see and hear their slogans. Those are not slogans of people wanting peace. "From the river to the sea Palestine will be free" and "Globalize the Intifada" are quite clear. And those are not the worst stuff that can be heard.
They’re calling for an end to the conflict not the extermination of the Jews.
Yeah, sure. It is all about supporting victims of a conflict!
No. It is not about caring about innocent victims, we have many wars with innocent victims, and they don't gather crowds.
It is not about caring about the right of a nation to self-determination because I fail to see protests supporting, for example, Kurds, against whom Turkey takes unlawful military action quite regularly.
It isn't Muslim solidarity because I see no anti-Chinese protest, who outright ban Islam in a Muslim region and keep Muslims in concentration camps.
It isn't solidarity with Arabs either, few gave an F when Assad, together with non-Arab intervents in the form of Russia and Iran, killed Arabs in masse. Neither is there any interest in stopping the war in Sudan...
What makes this conflict unique? Israel is one of the sides, that's what. It means that the core motivation of those protests is either hatred of specifically Israel or hatred towards "the West" and "its Israeli outpost on Muslim lands" or good old antisemitism.
Besides, I am neither deaf nor blind. I see and hear their slogans. Those are not slogans of people wanting peace. "From the river to the sea Palestine will be free" and "Globalize the Intifada" are quite clear. And those are not the worst stuff that can be heard.
According to reports from the UN Secretary-General on children and armed conflict, a total of 2,985 children were killed across 24 countries in 2022, 2,515 in 2021, and 2,674 in 2020 across 22 countries, Save the Children said.
Somewhere in the recent information about Gaza, I'd heard/read that 50% of the population is 18 or younger. There's going to be a cultural difference between what a child and an adult is, but...The median age in the strip was (probably still is, even with over ten thousand new corpses) 18, yeah. Which means half of its population is 18 or younger. Basically the entirety of them would have few to no memories of a time when gaza wasn't under blockade.
.
Hamas using human shields doesn’t really make it okay for Israel to kill the human shields, and the human shields don’t really have much choice when the terrorists move in, do they?
A question for you: do you actually think it’s possible for Israel to commit war crimes in this conflict? What would the line be for you?When there is a war, there are war crimes. I have seen relatively reliable evidence of war crimes committed by the Israeli Army in this war, like executing Hamas fighters who clearly tried to surrender
There are myriad ways Israel could have responded to the October 7th attacksCan you name a few?
Like they’re fighting around and bombing near a hospital in Gaza City “because Hamas” have tunnels underneath the hospital, or they bombed an ambulance convoy “because Hamas” use ambulances to shuttle people and materiel around.But both are true. As soon as one side uses hospitals and ambulances in this way - bombing them stops being a war crime. This is why there are rules for not using hospitals this way.
Because Hamas” basically culminates in things like bombing media headquarters providing critical coverage in GazaYeah, this one was a rather transparent lie. "Hamas intelligence" wasn't the target. But if you are acting as propaganda for one side of the war, you will get hit. USA bombed the infrastructure of media of Irag for "some" reason, too.
What makes this conflict unique? Israel is one of the sides, that's what. It means that the core motivation of those protests is either hatred of specifically Israel or hatred towards "the West" and "its Israeli outpost on Muslim lands" or good old antisemitism.
There are other answers to the "what makes it different?" other than "they just dislike Russia"QuoteWhat makes this conflict unique? Israel is one of the sides, that's what. It means that the core motivation of those protests is either hatred of specifically Israel or hatred towards "the West" and "its Israeli outpost on Muslim lands" or good old antisemitism.
Is it just me or this resembles a lot Vatnik whataboutism when they start bemoaning Western support of Ukraine?
A question for you: do you actually think it’s possible for Israel to commit war crimes in this conflict? What would the line be for you?When there is a war, there are war crimes. I have seen relatively reliable evidence of war crimes committed by the Israeli Army in this war, like executing Hamas fighters who clearly tried to surrender
The problem begins when everything one side does is called a war crime. Don't supply resources directly to the enemy? WAR CRIME. Doing any air strikes that cause any collateral casualties? WAR CRIME. It is hard to spot actual ones.
QuoteThere are myriad ways Israel could have responded to the October 7th attacksCan you name a few?
QuoteLike they’re fighting around and bombing near a hospital in Gaza City “because Hamas” have tunnels underneath the hospital, or they bombed an ambulance convoy “because Hamas” use ambulances to shuttle people and materiel around.But both are true. As soon as one side uses hospitals and ambulances in this way - bombing them stops being a war crime. This is why there are rules for not using hospitals this way.
Such loss of protection is an “exception” involving three elements where the medical transport is: used to commit acts harmful to the enemy; due warning is given; and there is a reasonable time for the warning to be heeded. With the first of these, acts harmful to the enemy can, according to the ICRC, include “transport of healthy troops, arms or munitions, as well as the collection or transmission of military intelligence.”
QuoteBecause Hamas” basically culminates in things like bombing media headquarters providing critical coverage in GazaYeah, this one was a rather transparent lie. "Hamas intelligence" wasn't the target. But if you are acting as propaganda for one side of the war, you will get hit. USA bombed the infrastructure of media of Irag for "some" reason, too.
Boots on the ground. They have special forces, Mossad, diplomats, money, prisoner swaps. Bombing the shit out of Gaza is just the easy option.Neither of those options can destroy HAMAS. Which is the stated goal of Israel.
“From the river to the sea” is also a contentious one. I don’t doubt that there are anti-Semites that do use it to mean extermination of Jews on that land, but there are others that use it to mean they want peace there. Jumping to the conclusion that everyone there, who was broadly peaceful, was using it to call for the elimination of Jews is a ludicrous jump to make.
The airstrike campign + limited inceursuon is not going to destroy HAMAS, causing the people in Gaza to suffer with no alternative is the reason they join HAMAS in the first place.
A diplomacy option would be to support a less hostile group and not literally support HAMAS as a bullwork against the PA, to not shoot peaceful protestors in Gaza in 2018-19, to actually try for peace and not continusly prevent palastinan families to return to the homes they were kicked out of.
Israel isn't even going for limited incursion, current plans in Israel leadership are between complete miletary control of the strip to straight up transfer to Egypt.
“Between the river and the sea” is a fragment from a slogan used since the 1960s by a variety of people with a host of purposes. And it is open to an array of interpretations, from the genocidal to the democratic.but the whole thing is worth a quick read.
The airstrike campign + limited inceursuon is not going to destroy HAMAS, causing the people in Gaza to suffer with no alternative is the reason they join HAMAS in the first place.
A diplomacy option would be to support a less hostile group and not literally support HAMAS as a bullwork against the PA, to not shoot peaceful protestors in Gaza in 2018-19, to actually try for peace and not continusly prevent palastinan families to return to the homes they were kicked out of.
“From the river to the sea” is also a contentious one. I don’t doubt that there are anti-Semites that do use it to mean extermination of Jews on that land, but there are others that use it to mean they want peace there. Jumping to the conclusion that everyone there, who was broadly peaceful, was using it to call for the elimination of Jews is a ludicrous jump to make.
If you think the people using a slogan calling for ethnical cleansing are doing so for peace then you show a severe lack of critical thinking. How can it not be immediately obvious to you how that is just antisemitic apologism?
The airstrike campign + limited inceursuon is not going to destroy HAMAS, causing the people in Gaza to suffer with no alternative is the reason they join HAMAS in the first place.
A diplomacy option would be to support a less hostile group and not literally support HAMAS as a bullwork against the PA, to not shoot peaceful protestors in Gaza in 2018-19, to actually try for peace and not continusly prevent palastinan families to return to the homes they were kicked out of.
Quoted for truth.
If the goal of Israel is to destroy Hamas (or the like), they ain’t going about it the right way. People having their homes and communities destroyed aren’t going to be philosophical about the matter. Equally so, all of Hamas isn’t in Gaza, so even if it was razed to the ground and all the tunnels filled with concrete, Hamas still exists, or get re-created by some of the Palestinians whose families have been destroyed in Israeli strikes that live elsewhere.“From the river to the sea” is also a contentious one. I don’t doubt that there are anti-Semites that do use it to mean extermination of Jews on that land, but there are others that use it to mean they want peace there. Jumping to the conclusion that everyone there, who was broadly peaceful, was using it to call for the elimination of Jews is a ludicrous jump to make.
If you think the people using a slogan calling for ethnical cleansing are doing so for peace then you show a severe lack of critical thinking. How can it not be immediately obvious to you how that is just antisemitic apologism?
Because allowing language to be essentially stolen by the most extreme elements of society means we wouldn’t be able to talk about anything. Interpreting something in the worst possible way is how to shut down dialogue - it’s something abusers do - on what is a relatively ambiguous statement. “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.” Free from what? Free to do what?
When Israelis use the phrase, do they use it to mean they want to exterminate Jews from the area? Heck, Likud used the phrase in the 70s, do they want to eliminate the Jews?
If the goal of Israel is to destroy Hamas (or the like), they ain’t going about it the right way. People having their homes and communities destroyed aren’t going to be philosophical about the matter. Equally so, all of Hamas isn’t in Gaza, so even if it was razed to the ground and all the tunnels filled with concrete, Hamas still exists, or get re-created by some of the Palestinians whose families have been destroyed in Israeli strikes that live elsewhere.
You walk down a Sydney street chanting the N-word you'll find yourself behind bars quick smart. And the reason for that is that the community, police and government understand it as hate speech.
The goal of the protest was to put pressure on the Australian government to lobby for a ceasefireIn other words, it is to pressure the Australian government to take the side of Good Palestine against Evil Israel. When you bring the flags of a country and chant its nationalistic slogans, it means support for that country, not support for peace.
QuoteIf the goal of Israel is to destroy Hamas (or the like), they ain’t going about it the right way. People having their homes and communities destroyed aren’t going to be philosophical about the matter. Equally so, all of Hamas isn’t in Gaza, so even if it was razed to the ground and all the tunnels filled with concrete, Hamas still exists, or get re-created by some of the Palestinians whose families have been destroyed in Israeli strikes that live elsewhere.
If the goal of Alies is to destroy Nazi Party (or the like), they ain’t going about it the right way. People having their homes and communities destroyed aren’t going to be philosophical about the matter. Equally so, all of Nazi Party members aren't in Germany, so even if it was razed to the ground and all the tunnels filled with concrete, Nazi Party still exists, or get re-created by some of the Germans whose families have been destroyed in Allied strikes that live elsewhere.
________________
The only correct thing here is that if Israel will go for another unfair, cruel, and idiotic occupation policy, there will be a new Hamas or a rebirth of it. Just like there would be a new Hitler if occupation of Germany would be unfair (note that German Neo-Nazi are far more popular in Eastern Germany and think why)
You walk down a Sydney street chanting the N-word you'll find yourself behind bars quick smart. And the reason for that is that the community, police and government understand it as hate speech.
BTW, are the guys who chanted "Gas the Jews" and "Fuck the Jews" in Sydney around a month ago are behind the bars already? Or did they do it to pressure the Australian government to lobby for a ceasefire, too?
Protest organiser Palestine Action Group Sydney defended its right to protest "apartheid" in Israel but said a small number of "vile antisemitic attendees" had no place in their movement.
"We are an anti-racist and anti-colonial movement and we refuse to fight racism with racism," the group said in a post on social media.
"If you are an antisemite, you are not welcome at our rallies and are not a part of our movement. As we did today, we will ask you to leave and we will continue to do this."
Keep trying, one day you’ll be able to find a way to paint all pro-Palestinian protestors as anti-Semitic.
https://www.reuters.com/world/police-investigate-pro-palestinian-protest-sydney-opera-house-over-alleged-anti-2023-10-10/I asked if they are behind bars or not, not if the police pretended to care
QuoteKeep trying, one day you’ll be able to find a way to paint all pro-Palestinian protestors as anti-Semitic.
Pro-Palestinian? Wait a minute... I thought those were pro-peace and pro-ceasefire?
Quotehttps://www.reuters.com/world/police-investigate-pro-palestinian-protest-sydney-opera-house-over-alleged-anti-2023-10-10/I asked if they are behind bars or not, not if the police pretended to care
QuoteIf the goal of Israel is to destroy Hamas (or the like), they ain’t going about it the right way. People having their homes and communities destroyed aren’t going to be philosophical about the matter. Equally so, all of Hamas isn’t in Gaza, so even if it was razed to the ground and all the tunnels filled with concrete, Hamas still exists, or get re-created by some of the Palestinians whose families have been destroyed in Israeli strikes that live elsewhere.
If the goal of Alies is to destroy Nazi Party (or the like), they ain’t going about it the right way. People having their homes and communities destroyed aren’t going to be philosophical about the matter. Equally so, all of Nazi Party members aren't in Germany, so even if it was razed to the ground and all the tunnels filled with concrete, Nazi Party still exists, or get re-created by some of the Germans whose families have been destroyed in Allied strikes that live elsewhere.
________________
The only correct thing here is that if Israel will go for another unfair, cruel, and idiotic occupation policy, there will be a new Hamas or a rebirth of it. Just like there would be a new Hitler if occupation of Germany would be unfair (note that German Neo-Nazi are far more popular in Eastern Germany and think why)
Is this another delineation we need to make? You can’t be pro-Palestinian and pro-peace?Reminds me of pro-Russian "Pro-Peace" folk - why can't Ukraine just surrender and there will be peace?
Of course we don’t need to worry about things like due process or anything like that. You know, go through the formalities and actually investigate people, make sure they’re the ones that were shouting their vile slurs, spend time making sure they can get a conviction.Strawman is strong in you. A month has passed.
Nah, best to just summarily execute people.
Who should we start with?
QuoteIs this another delineation we need to make? You can’t be pro-Palestinian and pro-peace?Reminds me of pro-Russian "Pro-Peace" folk - why can't Ukraine just surrender and there will be peace?
So not really. Being on someone's side in a war means you want victory for this side or want to avoid defeat, not peace. Especially when you chant"Israel must be destroyed"sorry, "From the river..."
QuoteOf course we don’t need to worry about things like due process or anything like that. You know, go through the formalities and actually investigate people, make sure they’re the ones that were shouting their vile slurs, spend time making sure they can get a conviction.Strawman is strong in you. A month has passed.
Nah, best to just summarily execute people.
Who should we start with?
Strongpoint, if it would be of utility, I would be able to go through your 10 points and clarify my own position.Sure. If you have free time and feel like it. I like learning other people's opinions and discussions, even heated ones (to a degree)
Yes this boils down to, is "by any means necessary" a reasonable tactic?
Most people say "no, the ends don't justify the means."
If you have a culture that really believes "by any means necessary" then there's not much room for dialog - at that point, sadly, force is really the only option, and often it results in "horrific" outcomes.
Though I'm not sure what Hamas intended goal was kidnapping a bunch of people, murdering a bunch of people and then killing (some) of the kidnapped people.
BTW, are the guys who chanted "Gas the Jews" and "Fuck the Jews" in Sydney around a month ago behind bars already?
Or did they do it to pressure the Australian government to lobby for a ceasefire, too?
Pretty sure antisemites want anything but a ceasefire.
No, no, they want Israel to ceasefire. Hamas can keep launching rockets, resupply, and plan more attacks. Israel has the Iron Dome to protect them, after all.
The most likely goal we're aware of was to disrupt the normalization talks that were going on between israel and some other nations, with a side goal of the usual thing of provoking wildly disproportionate retaliation against the gaza civilian population, and probably at least partially to try to draw the IDF away from supporting the murderous settlers on the west bank.
The brutality the 10/7 attack involved was, to all appearances, significantly due to how little resistance hamas encountered; without that, it might have ended up largely just a hostage exchange sort of situation (this is your reminder israel holds several hundred/thousand palestinians in detention, many of them for political reasons rather than anything reasonably called criminal) rather than literally nakba mk 2. Unfortunately, the IDF had prioritized giving cover to lynchings over defending the border they shared with hamas, and here we are :-\
The first 2 have, to all appearances, worked, incidentally. The third... sorta'. It did, but the settlers ramped up the murder and displacement efforts even with less military support, so it didn't exactly help the situation in the west bank much.
The Arabs are semites as well.Well, Western antisemitism is usually not against semitic peoples and more about one specific semitic people. Specifically the one that's been victim of antisemitism for about as long as they've existed. The rest generally fall under the guise of islamophobia, where anything vaguely Middle-Eastern (Muslim or not) is attacked as a bunch of terrorists.
Out of curiosity, is anyone able to enlighten me as to why anti-Jewish sentiments have been so prevalent throughout Western history? Some's going to be coming up with reasons to seize assets of rich Jewish people (Due to religious ideas on ursury) and them being an "other", but I can't imagine that's the whole thing else we'd have likely seen other groups attacked to a similar degree.The specifics are... more than I can actually remember and would take far more effort than I care to put in to do well... but iirc it was substantially due to a few things coming together. The big ones I can recall are the effects jewish practice and inheritance had on (not) integrating with local populations mixed with old laws limiting what occupations jews (minorities of various stripes in general) could get involved with. Basically came together to make a perpetual "other", and the stuff related to the ethno-religious practice made it somewhat unusual relative to other oppressed groups.
The Arabs are semites as well.
No one has been calling for a unilateral ceasefire, it has always been posited as mutual. Beyond that many antisemites are also antimuslim and are happy to see both parties suffering from hostilities.
The Arabs are semites as well.
I am rather tired of this take. It is not how languages work. Words mutate and two words with the same root can have very different meanings.
The Arabs are semites as well.
I am rather tired of this take. It is not how languages work. Words mutate and two words with the same root can have very different meanings.
Yet a phrase used by different groups must hold the same meaning regardless of intent and context.
You are full of contradictions.
The Arabs are semites as well.
I am rather tired of this take. It is not how languages work. Words mutate and two words with the same root can have very different meanings.
Yet a phrase used by different groups must hold the same meaning regardless of intent and context.
You are full of contradictions.
You have me so confused. Again.
- Words with same\simmilar root don't always mean the same thing
- This certain phrase has an established meaning and one can't pretend that it doesn't.
How do those statements contradict each other?
But...like take the middle east conflict we had under bush, war could been won quite quickly really, but there would have been a huge civilian loss. Would be extremely unpopular on the west, instead the war was just another western loss.
The Arabs are semites as well.
Huh? This prominent Iranian talks not about the West but about Iranian plans and goals regarding Israel and Zionism(read Jews) which includes supporting anti-Zionist protests in the Western World.
You may say that it is wrong for them to expect that protests will continue should Israel start losing but my statement is about what Iran expects, not what will actually happen.
I do think that antisemitic crowds aren't going anywhere no matter how this current war will progress. When this kind of stuff starts and it is unopposed - it tends to grow larger. Composition may change but the core will stay the same. But it is merely my subjective prediction.
It is funny how what is happening in Israel goes far better(less badly) than my most optimistic predictions and how I failed to even assume what will happen in EU and NA.
The protestors aren’t there because they want Israel to lose though, but considering you also think they’re demanding the extermination of Israel and the JewsSorry, but I trust my own eyes and ears coupled with my reasoning. I see what this crowd demands, how it demands, what it promotes, what it tolerates within itself. I also see who the leaders are and what they promote in media (both social and traditional)
It’s almost as though you’re not an expert and have little understanding of what you’re talking about, Nostradamus.Neither you are. You know? Besides predictions are funny. Actual experts miss all the time. Take any expert predictions on how the Ukrainian-Russian war will go and it is pure comedy in hindsight.
Again, though, before the main point, the protests aren’t calling for an Israeli loss.
Again, though, before the main point, the protests aren’t calling for an Israeli loss. Will a ceasefire allow Hamas to re-arm? Probably. Do you think they’re going to be able to have the same quality of weapons and supplies as the IDF, a modern, well-funded, professional state military, which is receiving support from other modern, well-funded, professional state militaries? Probably not.Yeah, It is very unlikely for HAMAS to win alone but not impossible in the long run. Underdogs did win in history, especially when a larger country faced internal problems. Israel has its problems with political unity.
You’re analogies don’t work. You can have lung cancer without it metastasizing. You can have different types of trees in a forest. Different levels of wealth in a rich country.Exactly what I meant. Obviously, there are many different people there. They have different personalities, views, goals, and ideologies. But I am not evaluating them, neither am I evaluating an "averaged protestor." I evaluate the protest movement as a whole.
No one has been calling for a unilateral ceasefire, it has always been posited as mutual.
That's a bit like asking for a ceasefire between US and Al Qaeda right after 9/11, isn't it?
The Palestinian flag represents the Palestinian people.Then the flag of Israel represents Jewish people, right?
Palestinians /=/ Hamas.Nazi Party /=/ Germans.
they want their government to change their position on the war to discourage Israel from the indiscriminate bombing or starving the civilian populace of Gaza
There you go making predictions again*facepalms* That one isn't even a prediction, that one is hypothetical. There are many other possible hypotheticals how Israel can cease to exist and how existence of HAMAS will contribute in this hypotheticals and why not destroying HAMAS increases the likelihood of Israel's total defeat.
How does a ceasefire in Gaza end in Israel’s destruction along the lines you set out?Do you really don't understand how not destroying an enemy force at your borders increases the likelihood of the destruction of your country? Note that Israel mistakingly tolerated this hostile force for 18 years allowing it to strengthen and grow, mistakingly thinking that it couldn't cause noticeable harm. Now they are fixing their mistake. Mistake that caused 1000+ deaths of their citizens. What next? More successful HAMAS operation that will take 10000 lives?
They had the audacity to protest at one point, and nearly 200 of them were killed over a 5-month period..Hundreds of young Palestinians, however, ignored warnings issued by the organizers and the Israeli military to avoid the border zone.] When some Palestinians began throwing stones and Molotov cocktails, Israel responded by declaring the Gaza border zone a closed military zone and opening fire at them. The events of the day were some of the most violent in recent years. In one incident, two Palestinian gunmen approached the fence, armed with AK-47 assault rifles and hand grenades, and exchanged fire with IDF soldiers. They were killed and their bodies were recovered by the IDF.
You two want to spend your political energies on something more productive? I'm sure you can make positive change in a more efficient manner than arguing with one another. And you're giving me a headache constantly bumping the thread into my unreads.It's probably also veering into the territory of Summoning The Toad.
Discussions in public spaces like forums are not always aimed at convincing the other side because there are spectators. Also, often discussions are conducted just to learn someone's else opinion. I said earlier that I like hearing the opinions of other people and questioning them to understand them better.You two want to spend your political energies on something more productive? I'm sure you can make positive change in a more efficient manner than arguing with one another. And you're giving me a headache constantly bumping the thread into my unreads.It's probably also veering into the territory of Summoning The Toad.
I can't enforce anything, but I'd advise both sides just take a step back and breathe. Neither of you is convincing the other.
There is also Ukraine and Israel competing for American aid but I don't think it is really a competition, Israeli and Ukrainian needs are different and America has enough stuff for everyone, it is only the question of political will.
I think part of why that conflict exists, is precisely because each side can make such compelling arguments for their case.
Now, I have been very clear in denouncing the violations of international humanitarian law and the violations of protection of civilians and I have not a mandate to classify the acts that are entities that are recommended. But I think that more important than a discussion on names is the facts and let’s see the facts. As you know, we report every year on children killed in armed conflict. I have already presented seven reports. In the seven reports, the highest number of children killed in one year by one actor was by the Taliban in 2017, 2018. The second by the Syrian Government and its allies in again before 2020 and again it was around 700. We have had Russia last year 350. We had Saudi Arabia. If you remember the uproar in relation to Yemen. In one year, the maximum 300. Now without entering into discussing the accuracy of the numbers that were published by the de facto authorities in Gaza, what is clear is that we have had in a few weeks thousands of children killed. So this is what matters. We are witnessing a killing of civilians that is unparalleled and unprecedented in any conflict since I am Secretary-General.Your take is slightly disingenuous given the above.
The full quote is:Quote from: https://www.un.org/sg/en/content/sg/press-encounter/2023-11-20/secretary-generals-press-conference-unep-emissions-gap-report-launchNow, I have been very clear in denouncing the violations of international humanitarian law and the violations of protection of civilians and I have not a mandate to classify the acts that are entities that are recommended. But I think that more important than a discussion on names is the facts and let’s see the facts. As you know, we report every year on children killed in armed conflict. I have already presented seven reports. In the seven reports, the highest number of children killed in one year by one actor was by the Taliban in 2017, 2018. The second by the Syrian Government and its allies in again before 2020 and again it was around 700. We have had Russia last year 350. We had Saudi Arabia. If you remember the uproar in relation to Yemen. In one year, the maximum 300. Now without entering into discussing the accuracy of the numbers that were published by the de facto authorities in Gaza, what is clear is that we have had in a few weeks thousands of children killed. So this is what matters. We are witnessing a killing of civilians that is unparalleled and unprecedented in any conflict since I am Secretary-General.Your take is slightly disingenuous given the above.
The difference is that the current war in Gaza has gone on for 6 weeks. If we were to project that to a year you’ll get ~40k dead.
The difference is that the current war in Gaza has gone on for 6 weeks. If we were to project that to a year you’ll get ~40k dead.
Still comparable to other modern wars. Still nothing "unprecedented". Still manipulation with statistics if not an outright lie.
Are we going to account for population density as well?
Apparently Area C of the West Bank and the sea zone off the coast have significant oil and gas reserves... Area C is the framework of roads, military bases, and colonizer settlements that the Israeli disallow Palestinian access.
The UN Conference on Trade and Development's 2019 report (https://unctad.org/system/files/official-document/gdsapp2019d1_en.pdf) on this topic..Does the rest of Israel know what business is being conducted in the West Bank? How many of the businesses working those resources are owned and operated by the far right?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
@Hector
I hit a state of surreal when I found I was comparing "1 million people attempting to migrate and being bombed" to "1 million people being relocated into economic or actual slavery".
While 360 sqare Km is indeed small, there are even smaller sovereign states in the world, so it's not without precedent. Is the size of the strip their main issue with Palestinian statehood?
The Nakba (Arabic: النكبة, romanized: an-Nakbah, lit. 'the catastrophe') was the violent displacement and dispossession of Palestinians, and the destruction of their society, culture, identity, political rights, and national aspirations. The term is used to describe both the events of 1948, as well as the ongoing occupation of the Palestinian territories (the West Bank and the Gaza Strip) and persecution and displacement of Palestinians throughout the region.
The foundational events of the Nakba took place during and shortly after the 1948 Palestine war, including 78% of Mandatory Palestine being declared as Israel, the expulsion and flight of 700,000 Palestinians, the related depopulation and destruction of over 500 Palestinian villages by Zionist militias and later the Israeli army and subsequent geographical erasure, the denial of the Palestinian right of return, the creation of permanent Palestinian refugees, and the "shattering of Palestinian society".
3. In conclusion, the Arab Higher Committee Delegation wishes to stress the following:
(a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
(b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
(c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.
(d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.
(e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
(f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
(g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
Please, don't provide links to liars from corrupt organizations like HRW, AI or UN.
While 360 sqare Km is indeed small, there are even smaller sovereign states in the world, so it's not without precedent. Is the size of the strip their main issue with Palestinian statehood?There are exactly twelve smaller sovereign states in the world, and their combined population is about a fifth of what you're proposing be shoved into that area.
Also, my words were referring to a specific claim of major Israeli war crimes. I wanted facts, direct evidence, not the words of people whom I don't trust and consider not neutral in the conflict.I mean, okay. Who would you trust in this case? It's not going to be Israel, either, so what's your standard?
I mean, okay. Who would you trust in this case? It's not going to be Israel, either, so what's your standard?Direct evidence. Anything that goes as a proof that Israel delibarely targets civilians and\or does less to avoid collatoral damage than is norm for modern armies in simillar operations.
At the end of WWII we didn't go and ethnically cleanse Germany and form a new state did we? They performed a genocide for crying out loud and we still didn't do it!
"You want rid of us, you have to kill us" doesn't give you permission to then perform an ethnic cleansing.Did I say anything about permission or that it was right? Nakba was wrong and evil. Ethnic cleansing of Germans of Eastern Europe wasn't right either. I am merely saying that there was a context and that the Palestinian-Israeli conflict did not start with Nakba, Nakba was the consequence of the conflict.
Also lost wars of aggression don't generally cause genocide or ethnic cleanses. If they did, every culture that ever performed a war of aggression and lost would be wiped out by now. We'd be living in a literal monoculture by now if we did. In fact, the opposite's more likelyThey often do when you lose so soundly that the country you were trying to conquer conquered you. Also, countries tend to be... unkind to ethnic minorities of people coming from the countries who wage war against them. Generally - side that loses suffers.
But do the people of Gaza even have collectively consistent aims?Polls in undemocratic countries are unreliable but according to them - yes they have consistent aims. The majority wants Palestine from the River to the Sea and see themselves as Palestinians who fight for liberation. And I haven't heard of any significant % of Gazans who would consider themselves a separate nation. Some weirdos like this may exist but I doubt they are statistically insignificant.
If I'm honest then, you might need to reread how you write things - It definitely came across as an attempt at justification. At least to me.Quote"You want rid of us, you have to kill us" doesn't give you permission to then perform an ethnic cleansing.Did I say anything about permission or that it was right? Nakba was wrong and evil. Ethnic cleansing of Germans of Eastern Europe wasn't right either. I am merely saying that there was a context and that the Palestinian-Israeli conflict did not start with Nakba, Nakba was the consequence of the conflict.
Half want a 2-state solution based on 1967 borders (https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah), actually, and 62% think Hamas should have maintained the ceasefire.
From the river to the sea, indeed.
If I'm honest then, you might need to reread how you write things - It definitely came across as an attempt at justification. At least to me.
Jesus, man. You accuse hector of simplistic thinking (what a strawman, btw), and then supply a simplistic alternative of your own.And what is my simplistic alternative?
Half want a 2-state solution based on 1967 borders (https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah), actually, and 62% think Hamas should have maintained the ceasefire.
From the river to the sea, indeed.
Indeed - https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf
There is more than one poll, you know? And July 2023 is kinda of outdated now, "stuff" happened.
Quote from: Great Order link=topic=153622.msg8513464#msg8513464If I'm honest then, you might need to reread how you write things - It definitely came across as an attempt at justification. At least to me.
The thing is that I am consistent in this thread. I am going against people like Hector13 who push for a very simple idea " Israel is evil incarnate, nasty colonizers doing war crimes for lulz. And Palestinians are innocent victims who just want peace except HAMAS but HAMAS isn't Palestinian fault, it is created by actions of the evil Jews"
29 and 30 are how they feel about various organizations. A lot feel positive Hamas and various other unpleasant people who are shooting back at Israel (is that correlated? I would imagine so, if someone drops bombs indiscriminately on you you’ll probably feel okay about the people shooting back, but that’s conjecture on my part) and not a lot of support for anyone else, including Israel, US, UK, EU, China, Russia, various Arabic nations and the media, as well as the Red Cross.
Tables 27 and 28 support you. Huge support for Hamas’ actions on October 7th, but maybe also take that with a pinch of salt given that the respondents will have been under an intense bombing campaign for 3-4 weeks by the time they got asked by these guys.
31 and 32 are why they think Hamas attacked on October 7th. Top answers were to stop violations of Aqsa at 35% and to free Palestine at 29%.Quite sad actually. A reminder that religious matters are no less important for them than the desire to have an independent country. Nearly zero think that Hamas did that for personal benefits and this is worrisome.
Table 33 and 34. Supports your position that Palestinians want the extermination of all the Jews, a whopping 75% say they don’t want a one or two state solution, they want Palestine from the river to the sea. A fuckhuge caveat on this one though, though I suspect you will completely ignore it in favour of “bUt ThE BaDdIeS SaY iT tO MeAn ElImInAtE dA JoOs”.Nope. It means eliminating Israel. Opinions on what to do with its Jewish population afterward may vary. But what matters is that as long as the majority of Palestinians want the destruction of Israel, there is no real room for any two-state solutions.
55-56 preferred government is 72% national unity, presumably between Hamas and the PA, because those are the only two options. Almost as though they think either side individually isn’t very good. Not what you would expect for your assertion of massive support for Hamas, is it?Palestinians who see themselves as a united nation don't like being divided into two different de-facto governments and would prefer them to be united. I find it absolutely hilarious that both sides like the government of the other part more than theirs (says few things about how good those governments are) but it is logical that the majority assumes that some kind of united government is necessary instead of giving all power to one side.
57-58. 83% of respondents would support a ceasefire which involves mutual cessation of hostilities. This does not fit with your assertion Palestinians hate the Jews. They think the war is Israel against Palestinians, they have justifiable excuse (from that perspective) to attack and kill Jews, and they think a victory will liberate Gaza from Israeli control BUT THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY SUPPORT AN END TO HOSTILITIES. Square that circle for me, Batman. From the river to the sea…Your enemy is currently bombing you and moving into your territory occupying more and more of it while you are unable to do any meaningful harm in response. Do you want them to stop? Yes\no?
… and the quotes with evidence of your assertions on my positions?
I mean… Gaza is basically under siege by Israel. They control land, sea, and air access (with Egypt) and are quite happy to allow their citizenry to abuse and harass Palestinians if it makes them leave - a situation which is not limited to Palestinians (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-65204037).
This is the same Israel with a far-right government that passed a law that only Jews are entitled to self-determination in Israel (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-adopts-divisive-law-declares-only-jews-have-right-self-n892636).
So yeah, without going into more detail on the horrific things allowed by the Israeli government enacted upon the Palestinians, I don’t condone at all what Hamas are doing, but when their back is to the wall and they keep getting pushed by someone that wants to eliminate them, physically, culturally, or both, and the international community has basically abandoned them to that fate… what other option do they have?
Jews are evil. Jews are blockading Gaza. Jews are genociding Palestinians. I don't kinda support Hamas's attack but they were basically forced to do it by Jews who took all other options away from them.Damn bro didn't realise you thought like this
I don't see itm Hector didn't mention Jews once in this comment… and the quotes with evidence of your assertions on my positions?
OK. Here is what you wrote on the day of the barbaric attack, before Israel started a major air strike campaign.I mean… Gaza is basically under siege by Israel. They control land, sea, and air access (with Egypt) and are quite happy to allow their citizenry to abuse and harass Palestinians if it makes them leave - a situation which is not limited to Palestinians (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-65204037).
This is the same Israel with a far-right government that passed a law that only Jews are entitled to self-determination in Israel (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-adopts-divisive-law-declares-only-jews-have-right-self-n892636).
So yeah, without going into more detail on the horrific things allowed by the Israeli government enacted upon the Palestinians, I don’t condone at all what Hamas are doing, but when their back is to the wall and they keep getting pushed by someone that wants to eliminate them, physically, culturally, or both, and the international community has basically abandoned them to that fate… what other option do they have?
Jews are evil. Jews are blockading Gaza. Jews are genociding Palestinians. I don't kinda support Hamas's attack but they were basically forced to do it by Jews who took all other options away from them.
… and the quotes with evidence of your assertions on my positions?
OK. Here is what you wrote on the day of the barbaric attack, before Israel started a major air strike campaign.I mean… Gaza is basically under siege by Israel. They control land, sea, and air access (with Egypt) and are quite happy to allow their citizenry to abuse and harass Palestinians if it makes them leave - a situation which is not limited to Palestinians (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-65204037).
This is the same Israel with a far-right government that passed a law that only Jews are entitled to self-determination in Israel (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-adopts-divisive-law-declares-only-jews-have-right-self-n892636).
So yeah, without going into more detail on the horrific things allowed by the Israeli government enacted upon the Palestinians, I don’t condone at all what Hamas are doing, but when their back is to the wall and they keep getting pushed by someone that wants to eliminate them, physically, culturally, or both, and the international community has basically abandoned them to that fate… what other option do they have?
Jews are evil. Jews are blockading Gaza. Jews are genociding Palestinians. I don't kinda support Hamas's attack but they were basically forced to do it by Jews who took all other options away from them.
And then, Afghanistan is 252,000 square miles. The Gaza Strip has an area of 140 square miles. If you do the math, that's 93,600 times the bombs per unit time and area.
Jews are evil. Jews are blockading Gaza. Jews are genociding Palestinians. I don't kinda support Hamas's attack but they were basically forced to do it by Jews who took all other options away from them....I think your position of "Israel *is* the Jewish people" is the thing that's antisemetic here. Conflating a whole ethno-religious group with a nation? Furthermore, conflating them with a government that's not representative of the Jewish or even the Israeli people as a whole?
… and the quotes with evidence of your assertions on my positions?
OK. Here is what you wrote on the day of the barbaric attack, before Israel started a major air strike campaign.I mean… Gaza is basically under siege by Israel. They control land, sea, and air access (with Egypt) and are quite happy to allow their citizenry to abuse and harass Palestinians if it makes them leave - a situation which is not limited to Palestinians (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-65204037).
This is the same Israel with a far-right government that passed a law that only Jews are entitled to self-determination in Israel (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-adopts-divisive-law-declares-only-jews-have-right-self-n892636).
So yeah, without going into more detail on the horrific things allowed by the Israeli government enacted upon the Palestinians, I don’t condone at all what Hamas are doing, but when their back is to the wall and they keep getting pushed by someone that wants to eliminate them, physically, culturally, or both, and the international community has basically abandoned them to that fate… what other option do they have?
Jews are evil. Jews are blockading Gaza. Jews are genociding Palestinians. I don't kinda support Hamas's attack but they were basically forced to do it by Jews who took all other options away from them.
Where did I say Jews were evil? I specifically mention the Israeli government, and in case it escapes your notice, that’s not representative of all Israelis, not all Israelis are Jews, and not all Jews are Israeli, Law of Return notwithstanding. The first link is about extremists
And then, Afghanistan is 252,000 square miles. The Gaza Strip has an area of 140 square miles. If you do the math, that's 93,600 times the bombs per unit time and area.???? Per square mile? Why would USA bomb huge sways of empty mountains in Afghanistan? Per unit of time? Why would USA need to bomb anything in Afghanistan for a year 24/7? If any metric is rational, then it is bombs used per square area of targets over the course of active fighting
This is why people are calling it an ethnic cleansing, and not just another brutal conflict.
condone /kən-dōn′/
transitive verb
To overlook, forgive, or disregard (an offense) without protest or censure. synonym: forgive.
Similar: forgive
To pardon; to forgive.
Similar: condoned
And why do we use Afghanistan and not... hmm... lets say... Gulf War of 1991? I know! Numbers will be not as impressive because in that war the coalition did use a shitton of bombs over the span of weeks. There will be no emotional manipulation.
...'Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. ''
I was opposed to the Trump government and levied frequent criticism against it, does that make me anti-American?
It seems like most people know the implied meaning (at least by now they should) of "from the river to the sea" and though they might be protesting for peace, they're using that particular slogan because it is upsetting to Israelis and their supporters. Even if they won't go as far as explicit calls for genocide, they see Israel as oppressors, and want to make them upset. Very ironic how most of those protestors are likely concerned about 'microaggressions' and yet have absolute zero sensitivity for how that slogan is heard by the Jewish people.Just a casual reminder that you shouldn't erase Jewish protesters or claim Israel's government speaks for "the Jewish people." It doesn't even speak for a majority of Israel's people (https://youtu.be/npOAPtIvEM8)
It seems like most people know the implied meaning (at least by now they should) of "from the river to the sea" and though they might be protesting for peace, they're using that particular slogan because it is upsetting to Israelis and their supporters. Even if they won't go as far as explicit calls for genocide, they see Israel as oppressors, and want to make them upset. Very ironic how most of those protestors are likely concerned about 'microaggressions' and yet have absolute zero sensitivity for how that slogan is heard by the Jewish people.Just a casual reminder that you shouldn't erase Jewish protesters or claim Israel's government speaks for "the Jewish people." It doesn't even speak for a majority of Israel's people (https://youtu.be/npOAPtIvEM8)
I'm not erasing anyone, just merely pointing out some absurdities involved with using such a charged slogan for the supposed purpose of peace.
I'm not erasing anyone, just merely pointing out some absurdities involved with using such a charged slogan for the supposed purpose of peace.A lot of these people in these protests are friends with someone whose family members are currently being killed so I don't imagine they're going to bend over when the people they're protesting against want to regulate what they're allowed to say or not say. Especially as something as fucking tame as "be free but we said be free = genocide so you support genocide now"
Israel acknowledged Monday that one of its ministries drafted a wartime proposal to transfer the Gaza Strip’s 2.3 million people to Egypt’s Sinai peninsula, drawing condemnation from the Palestinians and worsening tensions with Cairo.
By this kind of metric, no one represents anyone. For example, By this metric, I can't say Ukrainians resist Russian invasion because not all actually do. Neither I can say that supporting Russia War Crimes is anti-Ukrainian because some Ukrainians not only support those, they participate in them as willing collaborators.Only because you run from the position that you can speak on behalf of someone else even when they're telling you they don't support war crimes
As much as I would love to say - "they are no longer Ukrainians"... it is not exactly how the reality works.A group says "I don't support this."
If you don't do that, the logic is very simple. When Russia invaded Ukraine, you know how many Russians were on our streets protesting against Russia? How many Russian-speaking Ukrainians whom Putin was "protecting" died fighting against Russia?Yes, I know how many Russians protested. Miniscule amount. Not nearly enough to stop calling a basket of rotten eggs a basket of rotten eggs.
Okay, you kill Hamas. What next? What of the millions of survivors who lost everything to the Israeli military?I don't know, my predictions of the future tend to suck. What will definitely happen if Hamas is destroyed - a violent and evil group with access to the means of killing many people and poisoning the minds of many more, will be unable to continue doing so. It is quite an achievement for humanity.
And who fills the power vacuum?
What happens next?
Like fuck. Hector posts this poll refuting your claims that Gazans are just born from the womb as genocidal murderers.
Hey, my position that Gaza is ruled by a hateful totalitarian government that spreads hate through the full control of everything, including the education system, and that it enjoys a very substantial support among the residents of Gaza who are poisoned by hateful ideology is OBVIOUSLY the same as having a disgusting racist belief that Palestinians are genetically predisposed to be murderous animals.Like fuck. Hector posts this poll refuting your claims that Gazans are just born from the womb as genocidal murderers.
Literally what the fuck, LW?
...forgive me, but I don't see any false-equivalence of "Russian-speaking" and "Russian" here.QuoteIf you don't do that, the logic is very simple. When Russia invaded Ukraine, you know how many Russians were on our streets protesting against Russia? How many Russian-speaking Ukrainians whom Putin was "protecting" died fighting against Russia?Yes, I know how many Russians protested. Miniscule amount. Not nearly enough to stop calling a basket of rotten eggs a basket of rotten eggs.
Also, please don't equate Russian-speaking and Russians. Those are different groups. Like you know... English-speaking and Englishmen
Ah, yes, because Gaza is completely fine and doesn't need any help, do you consider anyone living in Gaza human? because you don't seem to consider they have anything in them which isn't evil.
To the relevant news. After the first successful exchange of "prisoners" yesterday. Today's one is on halt. Reason? HAMAS doesn't like that not all agreed trucks withransomhumanitarian aid passed through in time.
I wonder if Strongpoint genuinely thinks all the Palestinians that have been detained in Israel have all received due process, despite the minister in charge of domestic security services being leader of an anti-Arab party who wants all Arabs not loyal to Israel to be expelled, had a picture of a Jewish terrorist hanging in his home, was convicted of supporting an anti-Arab terrorist group, and was exempted from compulsory service because of his extremist views.Ah, yes, because Gaza is completely fine and doesn't need any help, do you consider anyone living in Gaza human? because you don't seem to consider they have anything in them which isn't evil.
To the relevant news. After the first successful exchange of "prisoners" yesterday. Today's one is on halt. Reason? HAMAS doesn't like that not all agreed trucks withransomhumanitarian aid passed through in time.
WTH? I am disgusted by the process of exchanging hostages for ransom, for supplies necessary for HAMAS to continue the war. Or are you implying that HAMAS actually cares for Gazan civilians getting supplies?Ah, yes, because Gaza is completely fine and doesn't need any help, do you consider anyone living in Gaza human? because you don't seem to consider they have anything in them which isn't evil.
To the relevant news. After the first successful exchange of "prisoners" yesterday. Today's one is on halt. Reason? HAMAS doesn't like that not all agreed trucks withransomhumanitarian aid passed through in time.
I wonder if Strongpoint genuinely thinks all the Palestinians that have been detained in Israel have all received due process, despite the minister in charge of domestic security services being leader of an anti-Arab party who wants all Arabs not loyal to Israel to be expelled
According to the Beeb, less than a quarter have been convictedbut what were they arrested for is also relevant, no? Also, if Israeli justice is so unfair... why they failed to convict them? Truly unfair justice is always swift
and 40% are under-18.More accurately: 40% are of ages 14 to 18 aka violent teenage freedom fighters\terrorists.
Tears fell down his father Khalil Brahma’s cheeks as he brought his son down from his shoulders and looked him in the eye for the first time in seven months. Israeli forces had arrested Jamal at his home in the Palestinian city of Jericho last spring and detained him without charge or trial.
The Israeli government has ordered police to shut down celebrations over the release. Israeli security forces at one point unleashed tear gas canisters on the crowds, sending young men, old women and small children sprinting away as they wept and screamed in pain.
The Palestinian detainees freed Friday included 24 women, some of whom had been sentenced to years-long prison terms over attempted stabbings and other attacks on Israeli security forces. Others had been accused of incitement on social media.
There were also the 15 male teenagers, most of them charged with stone-throwing and “supporting terrorism,” a broadly defined accusation that underscores Israel’s long-running crackdown on young Palestinian men as violence surges in the occupied territory.
“As a Palestinian, my heart is broken for my brothers in Gaza, so I can’t really celebrate,” said Abdulqader Khatib, a U.N. worker whose 17-year-old son, Iyas, was placed last year in “administrative detention,” without charges or trial and based on secret evidence. “But I am a father. And deep inside, I am very happy.”
Many prisoners are convicted by military courts, which prosecute Palestinians with a conviction rate of more than 99%. Rights groups say Palestinians are often denied due process and forced into confessions.
On Friday in Beitunia, a lanky and pimpled 16-year-old, Aban Hammad, stood unmoving, looking shaken by the tumult of tears, hugs and pro-Hamas chants around him. It was his first glimpse of the world after a year in prison for throwing stones in the northern town of Qalqilya. He was freed even though he had eight months of his sentence left to serve.
The issue is more when you get to constitutional rights and such. If Ukraine were to for example, deny anyone of Russian descent but Ukrainian citizenship from holding office, or voting, or legalize or have as a national philosophy that Ukraine is a nation of-and-for Ethnic Ukrainians and only ethnic ukrainians have the right to self-determine what happens in Ukraine
Western democracies should not be friendly allies with ethnostates, as it goes against a fundemental basis of modern western democracy.The fundamental basis of modern Western democracy is Westphalian sovereignty with nations stapled onto it when the monarchies began to be toppled. The former established territorial integrity and sovereignty, and the latter established self-determination through commonly shared experiences (one might say history and culture, which some may call ethnicity). Before that there were just kings faffing about doing whatever they wanted, and serfs who kept the throne clean for the next ass that would own them.
Essentially, to some extent, these groups have put the geography at a higher priority than their identity - that is, they have fallen into making the geography their identity. I think this is juvenile personally; it's immature - especially since it often seems like "heh we took this area by force, now we're going to be vindictive about it and rub it in your face and be sore winners" and "oh yeah, once we take it back by force, wait till you see how bad we give it back to you!" It's infantile.
How many times do you need to be told that Palestinians /=/ Hamas?*sighs* Do you really want to start this again? My claims
Palestinians on the other hand... Reject peace and Insist on achieving a total military victory over a much stronger opponent
If you do want an honest opinion on the video, I’m more interested in the veracity than what she said.I asked if you think is this individual a member of HAMAS or not. I fail to understand why would you need answers to the questions below to evaluate this. If you don't want to answer the question - fine. If you want to say "She is likely not a Hamas member because, in my opinion, this video is staged" - fine. A valid answer. Asking many unrelated questions is... weird.
Georgia (they really need to change their official English name to Sakartvelo)Until it involves midnight trains (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midnight_Train_to_Georgia), I think they're gonna be Ok as they are, in this respect. ;)