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[CLA]

STANDARD is used when a creature has no profession.  These are the peasants, haulers, etc.
DEFAULT is used when a creature's profession doesn't have a graphic defined.
[...]
For a more complete list for the latter, I'd need to diff the raws for each version

Oh FINALLY, I understand the difference between standard and default. Thank you so much. Added to the graphic set page.

As for changed creature names, I already diff'd the raws and all the changes are on the Graphic set talk page. I haven't added them to the page itself though.

[burned]

STANDARD <<< similar to default. I forget which one takes precedence or why there are two defaults.

STANDARD is used when a creature has no profession.  These are the peasants, haulers, etc.
DEFAULT is used when a creature's profession doesn't have a graphic defined.

Thanks so much Rydel! I could never figure that out.

Something else to note is that a lot of tile definitions have changed rather recently and some older tilesets will use old methods which, ideally, your script will catch and correct.

Yes and I would argue that's what inspired this thread to exist. Heh.

Currently, I'm not sure how the script will catch a name change between versions since it would just think there is no tile created for it so to speak. I still see that aspect as a manual process. I'd love to be wrong.

[DEFAULT:MyCreature:0:0:AS_IS:ANIMATED] should now be [ANIMATED:MyCreature:0:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]

My understanding is that it's always been [ANIMATED:MyCreature:0:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]

Previously it was [SKELETON:MyCreature:0:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT] and [ZOMBIE:MyCreature:0:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT] and you could have all the weapon skills specified (e.g. SWORDSMAN:MyCreature:0:0:AS_IS:SKELETON, etc) When the switch was made, I too thought ANIMATED should go at the end - but are you saying it did at one point? What version does that actually work in and do you have any insight as to why it changed?

Since I have three artists reading this thread, I figured I would start with theirs (I used the 42.05 versions).
<snip>
- Burned

Could you remove this from dropbox please?

My set is not part of the LNP or the graphics repository. I have previously spoken to fricy about this. All the sets that are currently part of the repo are listed in the OP. Thanks Quiet-Sun.

I'm already using an exception file to identify discrepancies between the raws and the graphic set names.  I cross checked the raws with the  Graphics Wiki, and created an exception file that you can download here:

NAME_EXEPTIONS.txt

@Rydel and @burned, you may be interested in knowing that you seem to be misspelling the giant cats (lion, tiger, etc).  At least my script seemed to isolate this.  Check the exeptions in my file and test them in the arena just in case.

If you created the exception file based on the wiki list, the reverse is true. The discussion makes note of this, but these are the name changes Rydel mentioned.  You're script is not catching them in CLA or Spacefox, because they haven't been updated as of this post, whereas Rydel and myself have updated our definitions.




edit: Thanks again.

[burned]

Ninja'd by CLA, regarding the name changes . . .

Oh FINALLY, I understand the difference between standard and default. Thank you so much. Added to the graphic set page.

I know, right!? Haha.

edit: Almost forgot . . .

(note that red tiles are supposed to be there to indicate missing tiles)

I know, but you're also defining the red tiles. That's not going to work.

[Rydel]

My understanding is that it's always been [ANIMATED:MyCreature:0:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT]

Previously it was [SKELETON:MyCreature:0:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT] and [ZOMBIE:MyCreature:0:0:AS_IS:DEFAULT] and you could have all the wepon skills specificed (e.g. SWORDSMAN:MyCreature:0:0:AS_IS:SKELETON, etc) When the switch was made, I too thought ANIMATED should go at the end - but are you saying it did at one point? What version does that actually work in and do you have any insight as to why it changed?

It is possible that I'm wrong on this point - I mostly gleaned this knowledge from seeing how there were written in some older tilesets, and I can't locate them, so I'm probably remembering it wrong, especially combined with the change from SKELETON/ZOMBIE to ANIMATED, and the weirdness of how the ANIMATED and GHOST texture tokens work as professions instead of textures could have caused the original files to do it wrong at some point, and I might have just checked before it was fixed.  Alternately, the change was very old and I can't find it from here.

I'll check old stuff when I get home.  If I don't edit this post, just assume that statement was me being wrong.

[burned]

@Rydel No worries. I sincerely thought you had hidden insight, since you knew the difference between default and standard. Offhand,  do you see anything missing or incorrect on the wiki regarding graphic sets?

Regardless, thanks for your help.

[Rydel]

Everything looks good, though the Ghost and Animated tags might be less confusing if they were listed as professions instead of texture tokens, (or at least included in the profession list with a footnote) since that's where you put them.

Also, I noticed that there was a blank column in creature_amphibians in the graphics posted earlier.  Either the script is doing something odd, or a creature is missing.  I can check which in about an hour and post it.

[Quiet-Sun]

Something else to note is that a lot of tile definitions have changed rather recently and some older tilesets will use old methods which, ideally, your script will catch and correct.

Yes and I would argue that's what inspired this thread to exist. Heh.

Currently, I'm not sure how the script will catch a name change between versions since it would just think there is no tile created for it so to speak. I still see that aspect as a manual process. I'd love to be wrong.

If you created the exception file based on the wiki list, the reverse is true. The discussion makes note of this, but these are the name changes Rydel mentioned. You're script is not catching them in CLA or Spacefox, because they haven't been updated as of this post, whereas Rydel and myself have updated our definitions.

Ah! I see! I assumed the wiki was up to date.   So let me make sure I understand something.  The ultimate source of creature tags are the raws, every creature in the game can be found there, and their names are the correct ones.  Right?

Regarding creatures that change from one version to the next, for now let's do this manually.  When I'm done with the standardization, I can write a script that compares every creature in the raws of a given version with every creature in the raws another (ignoring creature names) and look for matches in their properties (i.e. DESCRIPTION, CREATURE_TILE, PETVALUE, etc.)  Then the script puts possible name changes in a conversion.txt file that a human can check and prune (but most of the work will be already done). 

Also, I noticed that there was a blank column in creature_amphibians in the graphics posted earlier.  Either the script is doing something odd, or a creature is missing.  I can check which in about an hour and post it.

Don't worry about it for the moment, it's caused by me assuming the wiki was up-todate and your files were not, while in reality it is the other way.

[CLA]

Everything looks good, though the Ghost and Animated tags might be less confusing if they were listed as professions instead of texture tokens, (or at least included in the profession list with a footnote) since that's where you put them.

Yeah, I thought about doing that just now when I added the info about default and standard. I'll just go ahead and do it.

EDIT:

Don't worry about it for the moment, it's caused by me assuming the wiki was up-todate and your files were not, while in reality it is the other way.

On that note, the wiki wasn't updated yet because I haven't found time to fix my vim substitute command I used to generate the creature table in the first place. If you're willing and think that it requires only little more work than you're doing for the standardization, I would appreciate having a script that takes the raws and generates a table for the graphic set page. The syntax looks like this (variables in '<>', comments in '####'):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

{|class="wikitable"
|-
! Raw Name !! Name !! Vermin
|-
!scope="row" colspan="3"| <creature file name>
|-
| <creature NAME>
| <creature Title>
| <if they have VERMIN tag: VERMIN, otherwise empty>
|-
##followed by other creatures of this file, then another '!scope' etc line with the next file ##
!scope="row" colspan="3"| <creature file name>
|-
| <creature NAME>
| worm
| VERMIN
|-
#and more creatures#
|}


[burned]

So let me make sure I understand something.  The ultimate source of creature tags are the raws, every creature in the game can be found there, and their names are the correct ones.  Right?

Correct.

Regarding creatures that change from one version to the next, for now let's do this manually.

I agree with what CLA stated previously, standardization in the repo is a good step. Unfortunately, the reason I was even made aware of this was because of the trail of bread crumbs that pointed to the repo not being manually updated in the first place - they were just being "updated" without the definitions being touched for I don't know how many versions back.

I don't expect you to solve this problem (I definitely have hope and I am willing to help where I can!), but in order to address the current problem in the repo - assigining volunteers to specific sets to manually update them would be prudent until a better system exists. I am mainly speaking of the Frankenstein sets. Obviously the single author sets (like CLA) should be aware that they need to update.

[Quiet-Sun]

So let me make sure I understand something.  The ultimate source of creature tags are the raws, every creature in the game can be found there, and their names are the correct ones.  Right?

Correct.

Regarding creatures that change from one version to the next, for now let's do this manually.

I agree with what CLA stated previously, standardization in the repo is a good step. Unfortunately, the reason I was even made aware of this was because of the trail of bread crumbs that pointed to the repo not being manually updated in the first place - they were just being "updated" without the definitions being touched for I don't know how many versions back.

I don't expect you to solve this problem (I definitely have hope and I am willing to help where I can!), but in order to address the current problem in the repo - assigining volunteers to specific sets to manually update them would be prudent until a better system exists. I am mainly speaking of the Frankenstein sets. Obviously the single author sets (like CLA) should be aware that they need to update.

Thank you for your answers.  Then for the moment I will use CLA and Rally-Ho to define the standards since I know they are completely up to date.   Later, after I really understand how things work, I will see if there is a better way of dealing with frankensets.

One quick question:

- Can beastmen have all the professions available to dwarves and elves? or do they operate under a reduced set of professions?

[Button]

Can beastmen have all the professions available to dwarves and elves? or do they operate under a reduced set of professions?

Beastfolk and gorlaks can have any profession available to the civilization(s) they latch on to - which can be any civilization. Technically, so can elves, dwarves, humans, goblins, etc.

Plump Helmet Men can have any profession which doesn't require talking. (Not sure if worldgen respects this.)

[burned]

- Can beastmen have all the professions available to dwarves and elves? or do they operate under a reduced set of professions?

This is the best answer I've read in regards to what you are asking . . .   Correction. See Button above.

. . . the subterranean animal people professions are restricted like the kobolds in the entity_default.txt
Does that change if they are citizens of your fort?

I can't say for sure, but I know that elven woodcutters are possible if they use your civ's ethics, so presumably all jobs available to the civ they're attached to are available.

Since you can't spawn professions in the arena at this time, you have to test it in game. This involves crossing your fingers and wishing on a star that you get the tiles you are testing. Heh.

[Quiet-Sun]

- Can beastmen have all the professions available to dwarves and elves? or do they operate under a reduced set of professions?

This is the best answer I've read in regards to what you are asking . . .

. . . the subterranean animal people professions are restricted like the kobolds in the entity_default.txt
Does that change if they are citizens of your fort?

I can't say for sure, but I know that elven woodcutters are possible if they use your civ's ethics, so presumably all jobs available to the civ they're attached to are available.

[/quote]

Since you can't spawn professions in the arena at this time, you have to test it in game. This involves crossing your fingers and wishing on a star that you get . Heh.
[/quote]

Thank you! I think I'll start by using whatever is on entity_default.txt

since my script crosses my files against those of the original set, then I will be able to see what is left after the automatic process

[CLA]

Then for the moment I will use CLA and Rally-Ho to define the standards since I know they are completely up to date

To clarify:

CLA creature graphics, as they are in the CLA graphic set thread, on Mediafire/dffd and presumably in fricy's repo are NOT up to date. They neither have definitions for the new creatures nor the corrected creature names for some old ones and there are consequently several creature graphics missing (new giant and men variants, Tigermen, etc).

The whole reason I didn't update them yet and the whole reason I am enthusiastic about this script is because I don't have time to do it manually and I have no way to automate it.

[CLA]

Can beastmen have all the professions available to dwarves and elves? or do they operate under a reduced set of professions?

Beastfolk and gorlaks can have any profession available to the civilization(s) they latch on to - which can be any civilization. Technically, so can elves, dwarves, humans, goblins, etc.

Plump Helmet Men can have any profession which doesn't require talking. (Not sure if worldgen respects this.)

So in Summary, any Dwarf, Elf, Human, Goblin, Kobold, Animal Person, and Gorlak can theoretically have any profession, and consequently a graphic assigned to it correct?