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I am religious and believe in free will

70 (27.6%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

113 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (24%)

Total Members Voted: 249

[Grim Portent]

They have a localised reaction to the damage, e.g. secreting sap, etc. However, this is most likely all - they don't have a central processor where they can feel the pain, and even if they did no communication channels to get it there.

Actually many plants secrete hormones into the air to alert nearby plants that they are being eaten or harmed, it prompts the others to begin producing protective substances like poisons that make them taste bitter, so the response isn't strictly localized.

[TD1]

Fair enough. To condense my argument, there is an effect, and they react. There is no feeling of it as it were.

[penguinofhonor]

My argument is that's exactly how we thought lobsters experienced harm a decade ago, and that was wrong. Maybe when we see an organism physically react to harm, we shouldn't assume there is no feeling or sensation involved. It is difficult to tell the difference between sensing harm and feeling pain from an outsider's perspective.

[TD1]

But lobsters still have nervous systems, and ganglia, hence why there's a possibility they feel pain, despite not having a centralised brain. Plants don't have nervous systems/cells, as far as my understanding of Biology goes.

[scrdest]

But lobsters still have nervous systems, and ganglia, hence why there's a possibility they feel pain, despite not having a centralised brain. Plants don't have nervous systems/cells, as far as my understanding of Biology goes.

Nervous cells are, for the most part, regular-ass cells with a specialization in relaying signals; plants definitely have ways of systemic reactions to stimuli.

[Sheb]

Yeah, but the way they do is different enough from ours than it doesnt make sense to give it animal names such as pain.

There is also a fairly good argument that plants dont feel pain because they have no need for it. The capacity to feel pains is an evolutionary mechanism. Its a signal for an animal that something is wrong and he should get the fuck out. Plants cant move to avoid painful stimuli anyway, so there is no reason for them to evolve nociception.

[penguinofhonor]

That makes sense, but it could also be that pain is a signal for an organism that something is wrong and it needs to react. Mobile organisms move away because that's the easiest response for them, but plants don't have that option so they react differently.

[Sheb]

True, but they dont have a central nervous system to use pain as a useful signal. After all our own bodiesalso react in a lot of ways without pain (think of the immune system for exemple).

[TD1]

Even think of a knee jerk reaction. You move, but is it really because you feel pain?

[Helgoland]

That makes sense, but it could also be that pain is a signal for an organism that something is wrong and it needs to react. Mobile organisms move away because that's the easiest response for them, but plants don't have that option so they react differently.

So itching is a form of pain? What about the feeling of cold?

[scrdest]

That makes sense, but it could also be that pain is a signal for an organism that something is wrong and it needs to react. Mobile organisms move away because that's the easiest response for them, but plants don't have that option so they react differently.

So itching is a form of pain? What about the feeling of cold?

Frostbite is a thing. That hurts. You cannot really escape from the cold, strictly speaking.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Relevant? http://youtu.be/u2GWd2j3qJ8

[Adragis]

Of course, this only matters if you care about your food's feelings beforehand.

[Rose]

Or if your reasons for being a vegetarian are moral ones.

Personally, I'm a vegetarian because meat's freaking gross.

[Helgoland]

That makes sense, but it could also be that pain is a signal for an organism that something is wrong and it needs to react. Mobile organisms move away because that's the easiest response for them, but plants don't have that option so they react differently.

So itching is a form of pain? What about the feeling of cold?

Frostbite is a thing. That hurts. You cannot really escape from the cold, strictly speaking.

Sure, but the feeling of cold that I get when running through the streets of my city naked on a crisp January night is very much distinct from the feeling of pain, but still is signalling me that something is wrong.

Come to think of it, the same is true for emotional distress.