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I am religious and believe in free will

70 (27.6%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

113 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (24%)

Total Members Voted: 249

[origamiscienceguy]

Has anyone else noticed that the similarity between adultery as defined by Matthew 5:28 and rape as defined by social justice warriors?

Do you want this thread to get locked?

[Orange Wizard]

Has anyone else noticed that the similarity between adultery as defined by Matthew 5:28 and rape as defined by social justice warriors?

Do you want this thread to get locked?

No, that's an interesting observation. The difference is that as adultery, the emphasis is on the action of the lustful person as being unfaithful; whereas as "rape" the emphasis is on the person being lusted after as a victim.

[Rolan7]

Huh.  I don't know if that's the only difference, but it is an interesting one I hadn't considered.

If I wasn't busy, I might go into how this is an example of the New Testament introducing thoughtcrime.  With the justification that only the absolved can enter Heaven (and be cleansed of their natural impurities?) but also the threat of eternal suffering for those who don't sign up. 

Judaism/the Old Testament doesn't mention Heaven as a reward or Hell at all that I know of.  This new doctrine is evidence of evolution in action, in my opinion.

And Jesus may sound nice when he offers to save us from Hell, but keep in mind that he also *told* us of Hell, a new concept.  And he's sorta literally the person sending us there:

His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

And also

1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

If you're going to worship Jesus, understand that it's under threat of something worse than death.  A threat even worse than the many slaughters God committed in the Old Testament.

A natural response would be to abandon the Trinity and worship Jesus as a savior *from* God.  Those who believed this were slaughtered to the man, but that can't happen right now.  Maybe soon, if we don't dissent, but not now.

[Orange Wizard]

If you're going to worship Jesus, understand that it's under threat of something worse than death.  A threat even worse than the many slaughters God committed in the Old Testament.

I've basically been saying this the whole time but everyone keeps going on about God is love etc.

A natural response would be to abandon the Trinity and worship Jesus as a savior *from* God.  Those who believed this were slaughtered to the man, but that can't happen right now.  Maybe soon, if we don't dissent, but not now.

Gnosticism is an idea that I've toyed with in the past, but I'm not really comfortable adopting it, given that the gospels make it very clear that Jesus is doing the Father's will, not his own.

Also I can't really see the Church taking over again middle-ages style; I'd be more worried about social justice insanity than that.

[Bohandas]

Huh.  I don't know if that's the only difference, but it is an interesting one I hadn't considered.

If I wasn't busy, I might go into how this is an example of the New Testament introducing thoughtcrime.  With the justification that only the absolved can enter Heaven (and be cleansed of their natural impurities?) but also the threat of eternal suffering for those who don't sign up. 

Judaism/the Old Testament doesn't mention Heaven as a reward or Hell at all that I know of.  This new doctrine is evidence of evolution in action, in my opinion.

And Jesus may sound nice when he offers to save us from Hell, but keep in mind that he also *told* us of Hell, a new concept.  And he's sorta literally the person sending us there:

His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

And also

1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

If you're going to worship Jesus, understand that it's under threat of something worse than death.  A threat even worse than the many slaughters God committed in the Old Testament.

A natural response would be to abandon the Trinity and worship Jesus as a savior *from* God.  Those who believed this were slaughtered to the man, but that can't happen right now.  Maybe soon, if we don't dissent, but not now.

Jehovah is an alien and still threatens this planet!

EDIT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0x9ymMQUg8#t=07m34s

[Frumple]

Middle ages style, no (at least in western areas), but, well, times have changed, and it's not exactly a contestable statement that certain religious affiliations are heavily overrepresented in positions of power in certain areas. Personally, as someone stateside, I'm a hell of a lot more worried about the churches and their adherents than just about anything conceptually leftwing. They already have considerably more secular influence than m'particularly comfortable with, heh, and it's caused problems.

[origamiscienceguy]

The only requirement for salvation is believing in Jesus's death and Resurrection for your sins. So while thinking God is a terrible dude is incorrect, (according to the bible) it doesn't seem to be necessary for being saved. You can probably believe in a lot of incorrect things about Christianity and still be saved. I assume that God will set you facts straight in the afterlife.

Acts 16:31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household."

Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

[Rolepgeek]

Wait what you have to physically say it, it's not just about internal faith? What.

On the original note I wanted to make, Christianity is really interesting to me because it's like a puzzle with one extra piece. It almost always makes perfect sense except for one small thing. Usually that small thing is something crucial for it to be considered good, true, and unfathomably inevitable. If God is actually incompetent but at heart, trying, everything is basically explained. If God isn't actually good, just insecure, bored, and eternal, a lot is explained. If God is essentially mindless, or knows far more than we but not literally everything, quite a bit can be explained.

Also, I don't know if this happens to anyone else, but whenever I get engrossed in a well-made fictional setting with it's own religions or the like, since my family isn't religious, when I come back to the real world mentally I always find Christianity to be super weird. Fictional religions can be much more consistent, what with being created by a single person and all.

[origamiscienceguy]

Wait what you have to physically say it, it's not just about internal faith? What.

On the original note I wanted to make, Christianity is really interesting to me because it's like a puzzle with one extra piece. It almost always makes perfect sense except for one small thing. Usually that small thing is something crucial for it to be considered good, true, and unfathomably inevitable. If God is actually incompetent but at heart, trying, everything is basically explained. If God isn't actually good, just insecure, bored, and eternal, a lot is explained. If God is essentially mindless, or knows far more than we but not literally everything, quite a bit can be explained.

Also, I don't know if this happens to anyone else, but whenever I get engrossed in a well-made fictional setting with it's own religions or the like, since my family isn't religious, when I come back to the real world mentally I always find Christianity to be super weird. Fictional religions can be much more consistent, what with being created by a single person and all.

I have actually never thought about that. I would have to take a closer look at the greek to see if it means that.

And yes, the supernatural world is not supposed to make sense to humans. For example, if you read any part of Revelation, it seems that John is trying to describe a rainbow to a blind person. A Supernatural Wold making perfect sense actually seems kind of contradictory to me.

[Grimlocke]

Which, to me, is missing the point. Intelligent design also means 'well-crafted', in reference to systems specifically. Argument based on 'timeless, thus it can't/doesn't need to plan, thus it can't design, thus your system is false' is missing a step in the logic chain. Something being made in a way such that it accomplishes the purposes you desired for it to is an example of intelligent design. Whether or not it's being thought of in the same way we think about things is beside the point. You specifically said it 'implies' that. You did not say it is defined as that. My point here is that implications are not arguments. They're implications. 'Intelligent' in this context means it was not random, nor was it defined by an interminable process. Choosing how to define a word and then telling someone that their shorthand name for a set of ideas and theories doesn't fit when using that definition is not actually accomplishing anything.

That is... just not what Intelligent Design is. Its claiming that a deity designed this universe, usually in a Christian context, and usually brought up as a fairly desperate counter to evolution.

Even though the base concepts of both theories don't even overlap ID often gets mixed in with other bunk about divine intervention being needed for things like eyes to develop.

Its seems to have been invented by the idiotic lot that tries to weasel god into every bit of education they can, by turning god into some kind of pseudo-science. I think its the same ones that made a 'creationism museum'. I really have a strong distaste for pseudo-science.


Anyhow, its bunk invented by bunk people for a bunk political purpose. Religious and metaphysical debates are good fun and all but they really need to stay out of science and politics.

[Telgin]

One could argue that it makes fictional religions less believable to be so internally consistent.  It's like a lot of world building in fiction: it's hard to introduce the wrinkles and quirks that any culture picks up over time.  Christianity and most / all real world religions are the same.  After literally thousands of years of being passed around, it's bound to be weird.

A funny thing I realized when trying to build a fictional religion of my own is that it's pretty hard to make it distinctly different from Christianity or the traditional pantheon concept.  It seems like there should be so much you can do with religions, but people keep falling back into the standard trappings.

Huh... now I have to wonder if fictional religions are on topic here?  That could be an interesting topic.

[TheBiggerFish]

Hm.
I'd make a separate thread.

[origamiscienceguy]

One could argue that it makes fictional religions less believable to be so internally consistent.  It's like a lot of world building in fiction: it's hard to introduce the wrinkles and quirks that any culture picks up over time.  Christianity and most / all real world religions are the same.  After literally thousands of years of being passed around, it's bound to be weird.

A funny thing I realized when trying to build a fictional religion of my own is that it's pretty hard to make it distinctly different from Christianity or the traditional pantheon concept.  It seems like there should be so much you can do with religions, but people keep falling back into the standard trappings.

Huh... now I have to wonder if fictional religions are on topic here?  That could be an interesting topic.

But the New Testament hasn't changed almost at all since it's inception.

[penguinofhonor]

Fictional religions are pretty cool. I think the idea of technology worship is something sci-fi settings should explore more.

[Telgin]

One could argue that it makes fictional religions less believable to be so internally consistent.  It's like a lot of world building in fiction: it's hard to introduce the wrinkles and quirks that any culture picks up over time.  Christianity and most / all real world religions are the same.  After literally thousands of years of being passed around, it's bound to be weird.

A funny thing I realized when trying to build a fictional religion of my own is that it's pretty hard to make it distinctly different from Christianity or the traditional pantheon concept.  It seems like there should be so much you can do with religions, but people keep falling back into the standard trappings.

Huh... now I have to wonder if fictional religions are on topic here?  That could be an interesting topic.

But the New Testament hasn't changed almost at all since it's inception.

Doesn't stop people from interpreting things wildly differently.  Just look at the difference between Protestants and Catholics, for example.  Or the very many different Protestant groups.  Traditions mutate within these groups over time even if the scripture doesn't change.