How can I help them?
They're my family and I love them
empty "I love you"s.
"should've come to them three years ago [when I first realized I was bi, as I told them] so I could've gotten help."
How can I help them?
I need acceptance.
Is this the point where I stop being understanding to them? I've tried being very patient and not trying to take any moral high grounds or play any victim cards, even though I'd probably be justified in doing so.
Y'might wanna disabuse them of the notion that being gay is a lifestyle choice, incidentally.
Y'might wanna disabuse them of the notion that being gay is a lifestyle choice, incidentally.
They arrived at these conclusions because they're religious, correct?I haven't really pressured them for their reasons. I suppose I should. Assuming it's religion (probably)... I probably could debate theology, but they know I'm agnostic so I dunno. As for Mormonism, it doesn't have any additional doctrine against LGBT stuff, unless you count what high ranking officials have said over the years (note: the head of the church is considered a prophet just as much as any in the bible, so their speeches and such are considered on the same level as scripture. Despite, of course, various contradictions, but I won't get into that...).
Perhaps try to persuade them using religious arguments based in theology, there are arguments out there from progressive Christians that support LGBT individuals. Although I'm not sure how much Mormonism complicates the issue here (aside from the Mormon Church being ridiculously anti-LGBT). Try to speak to them on their level, it may be the only way.
You are yourself, and you should accept that they may not accept you right away or at all. Religion has deep roots that don't always disappear. If you just be yourself, and I'm sure that they'll see that you're still the child they raised. It's not like you're a drug addict or anything, so I would really hope they can get over it.Alright. This is pretty much what I'm doing. If anything's different, I'm vastly more talkative and outgoing. I was holding back a lot of secrets so I was pretty silent beforehand out of fear of letting things slip.
When I admitted I was pansexual (I worded it as bi, but whatever) I didn't change my day to day life at all. I still made coffee in the morning for my dad and I, and I still talked with them about the usual things. My advice is to not change a thing.
One last thing, a gay relationship should be treated just like a hetero relationship. Take your time to ease the person you're going to be with into you and your family's daily life. A solid relationship is a good thing, especially if your parents are skeptical.
Y'might wanna disabuse them of the notion that being gay is a lifestyle choice, incidentally.Honestly, *I* don't buy that as a valid justification :P Choice is irrelevant to me whether it's "good" or "bad," so I'm not going to pull out an argument I don't agree with. It's not bad because there's no reason for it to be considered bad. That's it.
You can't make them accept it. Try to be as financially independent as possible as quickly as possible and let them deal with it.They still ask me to come to family prayers and I've been consenting so far. I think I'll stop that one, in case they have any more delusions :-\
Whatever you do, don't agree to stop looking at pornography or getting help from Jesus. If you give them a concession they'll never stop trying to get more.
I don't know if they're coming around or not, but I'm not getting thrown out of the house. They're still going to help with college and my upcoming move.And how sure are you of these things? No one ever suspects their own parents until it is too late.
"I can't help myself I was born this way" is not an argument that's likely to be helpful here. If somebody really believes that (insert x here)-sexuality is acceptable, they don't need to blame fate or say it's not their fault because they had no choice in the matter.
Doing so also invites unwanted "help" in the form of people who believe differently.
Today I was informed that I "should've come to them three years ago [when I first realized I was bi, as I told them] so I could've gotten help." I also got a monologue about how pornography is Evil (tm) and how it's going to "destroy my life."
I think it's mostly a waiting game. You aren't going to change them and don't want to. But given time they'll get over their issues.Basically, this.
23. And I largely agree. If they attack me with religious arguments again though, well, I know enough about the religion to counter.
(EDIT: I would of course be advocating homosexuality as acceptable within their religion, not advocating my agnostic view)
Still looking for opportunities to come out to other people in meatspace without it being awkward.
I mean, I can randomly shout "I'M GAY" to the online communities I'm in and it's rather amusing,
but I don't have the guts to do it in real life.
They're regressing in a moral panic. Be careful, kaijyuu. If they're religion whips them into enough of a frenzy they could do something crazy.
MSH, you seem to be a rather big pessimist. :P It can be difficult sometimes even for non - religious families to cope with things like this happening, and perhaps Kai's dad just wanted to voice himself to a support group.Religion makes people do crazy things, Korbac. Things they would otherwise never consider.
Of there are some people who just don't believe it's natural, and I've known some of those people myself. And religion doesn't make someone angry. Don't think that homosexuals can't be good Christians, or the other way around. And I am praying for you, Kai.MSH, you seem to be a rather big pessimist. :P It can be difficult sometimes even for non - religious families to cope with things like this happening, and perhaps Kai's dad just wanted to voice himself to a support group.Religion makes people do crazy things, Korbac. Things they would otherwise never consider.
I don't think I've ever encountered a situation where a non-religious family took issue with homosexuality. It's an issue almost entirely fueled by religion. The only non-religious objection to homosexuality I've ever heard is from the evolutionary psychologists.
Demonstratively wrong, MSH. If your theory was right, there would be next to no anti-honor sentiment in Scandinavia. But, even though it's less than in the US, there still is.What's an anti-honor sentiment?
Of there are some people who just don't believe it's natural, and I've known some of those people myself.In my experience the "unnatural!" crowd are religious more often than not. After all, "natural" is a perception that generally requires believing in a world with some manner of natural intent, i.e. as proscribed by a dieity.
And religion doesn't make someone angry.Right, all the firebrand preachers condemning the "homosexual menace" are just so calm and rational. Or condemning all the other aspects of modern society that they condemn.
Don't think that homosexuals can't be good Christians, or the other way around.I wouldn't say that there's any metric on being a good or bad Christian.
Demonstratively wrong, MSH. If your theory was right, there would be next to no anti-honor sentiment in Scandinavia. But, even though it's less than in the US, there still is.What's an anti-honor sentiment?
/quote]
It's what my cellphone autocorrect changes "anti-homo" sentiment to.
Kai, if you really feel a burning urge to tell your friends, I guess you could, but as long as you're not trying to hide it any more, it should gradually come out in the wash.Friends? :P
Still looking for opportunities to come out to other people in meatspace without it being awkward. I mean, I can randomly shout "I'M GAY" to the online communities I'm in and it's rather amusing, but I don't have the guts to do it in real life.It does depend on what people are talking about, but starters here's some examples (for the examples I'm assuming that you're a bi man (I don't know if you're a man but you said you were bi in the beginning of the thread)):
I am a man, and I'm into men and occasionally women. Yeah, I'll make sure people know I'm bi and not just gay. While I probably won't be looking for women, I'd be open to one approaching me (the type of women I'm interested in would be the type to take the initiative and approach me, rather than the other way around, anyway).That's all the more reason to let people know in no uncertain terms that you're bi, while it happens that people goes for you regardless if you might be interested, they are few and quite frankly often a bit to self obsessed to be interested in you (more likely they are interested in themselves next to you)
As for getting more meatspace friends, that's one of my goals in moving. I have almost no friends here because I have almost no one to relate to (well that and pushing everyone I knew away; being depressed does that). A new place with new people to make a new start would be fucking awesome. Dammit why is it 2 months away :(That seems great, I know about pushing friends away, it would just be nice if I like you could make friends at new places.
I have an idea.(http://oi46.tinypic.com/5yagrd.jpg)
Beyond blaring conservative talk radio, my workplace also has a little bulletin board where people put stuff up. There are some jokes, some political propaganda, some other stuff.
I want to put up a LGBT poster. One that's small and not too noticeable, but will still turn some bigoted heads. It also needs to look good black and white, as that's the only type of printer we have here.
Google images has failed me. Suggestions? :D
I have an idea.(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-33qO-YWpHc0/T6mgmPKmE_I/AAAAAAAARfY/wZ0-N-KlhKU/s400/578212_185166511606741_100003401790109_290938_416549687_n.jpg)
Beyond blaring conservative talk radio, my workplace also has a little bulletin board where people put stuff up. There are some jokes, some political propaganda, some other stuff.
I want to put up a LGBT poster. One that's small and not too noticeable, but will still turn some bigoted heads. It also needs to look good black and white, as that's the only type of printer we have here.
Google images has failed me. Suggestions? :D
straight disgustingPun intended? ???
Not intended :PThat makes it all the sweeter. Hehe.
Oh ho, 1 reaction under 30 minutes after putting the one above my desk!Woo! Gratz!
Mother: "So you want people to know now?"
Me: "Yes."
Mother: "You're proud of this?"
Me: "Well yeah."
Mother shrugs and walks off.
Good sign.
Adults. I have one kid, and that's enough for me. I don't wanna babysit anyone else's.That would be rather interesting.
If I got any students that were total asses, I could punch them in the face. That's the very best part of being a martial arts teacher.Adults. I have one kid, and that's enough for me. I don't wanna babysit anyone else's.That would be rather interesting.
Please don't let people in that are total asses. I want to be able to win against them.
The bad news is that the executives demand that Justin Beiber write your opening song. The good news is that they also want him to be a guest star.Naw, MTV would never stoop so far as to put Beiber on MTV4. MTV2 is probably as low as he's allowed to go. I'd wind up with Flava Flav.
I am only five feet tall, after all.
Eh, wot?I am only five feet tall, after all.
WE HAVE A WINNER!
Depends on the business, MZ. Some allow people to express their opinions and the business itself may do so as well, even if it loses part of the customer base. Like the feminist gay coffee shop I like to visit.Do they only serve feminist gay coffee?
Depends on the business, MZ. Some allow people to express their opinions and the business itself may do so as well, even if it loses part of the customer base. Like the feminist gay coffee shop I like to visit.Do they only serve feminist gay coffee?
Whatever you do, don't agree to stop looking at pornography or getting help from Jesus....Permission to sig?
Fortunately I brought an extra. New one's up. I'll print out a couple more too~Printers are so wonderful. If you find out who it was, give them a couple hundred thousand copies.
Oh, and a fun minor anecdote:You should remember to make it clear that this isn't actually new, this is just you being honest.
Mother: What did your therapist say about your... new lifestyle?
Me: He was very supportive!
Mother: *dismissive huff*
Me: Well he is a therapist. He also scoffed at you guys being unhappy about it.
Mother: Well, what parent WOULD be happy with it?
Me: Lots, mom.
Mother: Yeah right.
You hardly need my permission.Whatever you do, don't agree to stop looking at pornography or getting help from Jesus....Permission to sig?
Kaijyuu, I think my mom and your mom are the same people. That was my mother's exact same reaction to when I told her I was agnostic.But that's like the least offensive religion possible
Expect it was various teachers instead of a therapist.
I dunno. We agnostics can be pretty smugly superior. :P (http://xkcd.com/774/)The reddit page for atheism made me sad, though :( Behold the witticisms of the Internet's best!
Ugh. Why is it always the assholes who are the loudest?Where better to spew hot air from?
connected to a tripwire that goes over the poster.
someone puts something over the poster/pull it off, tripwire breaks, and their arse gets riddled with high-velocity paint.
who knew balls up the bum could be so useful for protecting LGBT posters?
once you find them, paste their walls (and them) with the posters.No, pushing it in their face is on the same level as tearing it down. But definitely do confront them. Just don't make them hate you, make them see you for what you are, a reasonable human being.
So yeah, their behavior isn't unprecedented, but I don't think it healthy.
Yes, he has. He's actually said something besides empty "I love yous" and vocal disappointment, unlike my mother.So yeah, their behavior isn't unprecedented, but I don't think it healthy.
I agree completely, with this and the rest of the post. I just wanted to know for my evaluation of their behaviour. I hope they'll open up sooner or later. Weirdly enough, though correct me if the impressions I've gotten from the thread is wrong, hasn't your father been the most open with you this time?
Well, I didn't think you meant it literally. I meant "Be gay, just don't be rude."FTFY.once you find them, paste their walls (and them) with the posters.No, pushing it in their face is on the same level as tearing it down. But definitely do confront them. Just don't make them hate you, make them see you for what you are, a reasonable human being.MAKE SURE THEY CHOKE ON LGBT POSTERS!
I wasn't actually being serious, y'know?
He is the secretary. I doubt there will be much chance of running out of printers.Well, if all else fails, I can sell him a giraffe-powered one.
I'm thinking that a lot of people just can't picture gay men as being perfectly normal. I mean it's not like a straight guy hits on every lady he sees. I think this is the major point that people are missing in cases like this.This has always bothered me. Sexual preference really shouldnt have anything to do with personality type
unless the whole "Our personalities are coded into our Genetics" thing is correct, as apparently Homosexuality is genetic, despite that not making any sense towards how said gene gets passed down.I'm thinking that a lot of people just can't picture gay men as being perfectly normal. I mean it's not like a straight guy hits on every lady he sees. I think this is the major point that people are missing in cases like this.This has always bothered me. Sexual preference really shouldnt have anything to do with personality type
Wacky nerd who never grew up is the best kind of personality =P
Perhaps you could subtly coat the next poster with some kind of slow-drying paint/ink, so that when whoever-it-is tears it down, the evidence will be all over them.:P
...Bonus points for using red paint/ink and making a quip about 'catching them red handed'. ;)
Perhaps you could subtly coat the next poster with some kind of slow-drying paint/ink, so that when whoever-it-is tears it down, the evidence will be all over them.
...Bonus points for using red paint/ink and making a quip about 'catching them red handed'. ;)
Of course, where bisexuality fits into all this is a mystery. I have a very different type of physical attraction between men and women (though in the end they both just result in boners :) ).That just made my day.
Practically speaking I dunno what causes same sex attraction and I don't really care. That knowledge is a novelty at best. If it's choice, if it's genetic, if it's whatever, doesn't change whether it's good or bad.Yeah, I think you're completely right about that.
Well talked to my father today and we narrowed down who was stealing my posters to one guy. I'm not going to confront the guy if he won't confront me (he's the one with the problem).Looks like he's coming around, helping you with figuring out who's doing it and all that. That's great.
Also, amusingly, over the past week and a half only one customer has commented on it, and in my father's words, "she's crazy. You don't want to talk to her." I'm assuming hardcore homophobic but he didn't quite say that.
Well talked to my father today and we narrowed down who was stealing my posters to one guy. I'm not going to confront the guy if he won't confront me (he's the one with the problem).
well if you use smite evil you can do considerable damage to homophobes even with just a foam swordWell talked to my father today and we narrowed down who was stealing my posters to one guy. I'm not going to confront the guy if he won't confront me (he's the one with the problem).
Bah. I would lie in ambush with a zweihander until he passed, at which point I'd leap out and while my blade fell towards his head I'd shout "SMITE EVIL!".
Of course, you might face considerable legal trouble unless the sword is made out of nerf foam.
Hitting with a foam sword would be considered both :P But would probably be thrown out of court.It's not the type of sword, it's how you use it. :D
well if you use smite evil you can do considerable damage to homophobes even with just a foam sword
Hitting with a foam sword would be considered both :P But would probably be thrown out of court.It's not the type of sword, it's how you use it. :D
I guess good luck with your parents.
It's kinda funny. I'm fairly certain both my brother and I are Heterosexual and we have parents who couldn't care less about what we're attracted to and it seems almost all Bi and Homosexuals have parents who don't agree with their choices.
I guess good luck with your parents.
It's kinda funny. I'm fairly certain both my brother and I are Heterosexual and we have parents who couldn't care less about what we're attracted to and it seems almost all Bi and Homosexuals have parents who don't agree with their choices.