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Dwarf Fortress => DF Modding => Mod Releases => Topic started by: Stalhansch on August 27, 2014, 06:04:26 pm

Title: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: Stalhansch on August 27, 2014, 06:04:26 pm

[Preamble]

A couple of years ago I became rather obsessed with understanding the Dwarf Fortress combat system. I was often annoyed by how armour didn't have as much of an impact in battle as it should. Swords and axes were prone to severing limbs straight through and spears easily pierced the entirety of legs, even when made of the same material as the armour they were seemingly ignoring. I was further bothered by ranged being the end-all of combat more often than not.

This led me to many a night of searches and inspections of raws from several different mods, trying to figure out how they attempted to solved this perennial problem of mine. I ultimately stumbled across Lucelle's mod (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=118653.0). After playing around with Lucelle's mod, I was inspired to try and fix the problem myself.

This small project is the result of almost 2 years of tweaking and too many hours spent testing in the Arena. I think it's finally come to a point where it is as balanced and sensical as it's going to be with only myself to scrutinise (One of my primary goals was to have weapons behave as they would in real life, but this is Dwarf Fortress and there will be anomalies). Of course, my idea of balance is only my own, and this is what has brought me to release this project to the public. I invite you to either help me improve this mod with critique and suggestions or simply enjoy it any other way you see fit.

[Notes]

[Armour and Clothing Layers]
Currently, most armour and clothing layers on pieces are tailoured to only allow one article of equipment in each slot. For the most part, you can no longer wear multiple chain layers and a hundred cloaks. On the bright side, you won't need to.

Then what all can I wear?
My packs can make Dwarf Fortress rather picky as to what you can put on. You may have to juggle your equipment around when changing outfits in Adventure mode. However, this problem should be minimal in Fortress mode.

To simplify the process I recommend you view it like stacking cups; armour is the largest cup, and underclothes such as hand/leg wraps and shirts/tunics are the smallest cup.

[Packs]

[Armoury Pack]
This pack includes about 85 weapons and about 65 articles of armour and clothing. Below is the list of them in their entirety.

Spoiler: Weapons (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Armour (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Clothing (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Shields (click to show/hide)

[Adventure Mode]
Adventure mode changes have been suspended/removed until I know what I'm doing again.

[Updates]
v1.9:
- Updated to 43.05
- STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_CHAIN_ALL in various files changed to STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_CHAIN_METAL where appropriate (oversight)
item_weapon.txt
- Added 'medium' bow weapon
- MINIMUM_SIZE value adjustments for several weapons
- Weapon name localisation adjustments
- Removed daggers
item_ammo.txt
- Minour adjustments to some ammunition types
- Sling bullets changed from EDGED to BLUNT
item_armor.txt
- Aketon coverage increased to 150% from 100%
item_body.txt
- 'Dress' renamed to 'kaftan' (gender-neutral garment name)
item_gloves.txt
- Redundant MATERIAL_SIZE for mittens removed
item_helm.txt
- MATERIAL_SIZE for bascinet increased to 6 from 3
- Both metal and cloth coifs improved; padded coif renamed to 'arming coif'
- Civilian coif added, replacing arming cap
- Hood renamed to cowl
item_shoes.txt
- Leather military boot coverage increased to 250% from 200%
- Clogs added
item_tool.txt
- Added daggers as civilian weapons; only affects adventure mode

Spoiler: Past Updates (click to show/hide)

[Download]
Download Link (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=9539)
The zip file contains an optional pre-configured entity_default with the weapons divided among the creatures in a loose theme. Otherwise I have compiled the relevant tokens in the readme file for custom modification.
The zip file also contains an optional custom creature_standard with bite and scratch attacks removed from dwarves, humans and elves.

[Bugs]
I am by no means a master at modding Dwarf Fortress. There may be oddities, there may be bugs. You may express your displeasure with them in this thread.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.0 [40.xx]
Post by: SalmonGod on August 27, 2014, 08:08:56 pm
PTW
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.0 [40.xx]
Post by: StagnantSoul on August 28, 2014, 03:19:39 am
I humbly bow my head to you, sir... Above any new creature, metal, civilization, or even new play style, THIS is what I've wanted. Realistic arms and weapons. Three hoods and cloaks, two mails shirts, gauntlets and boots, a shield and weapon, chain leggings and greaves. That's a heavy cavalry setup. Not an infantry setup. It's too bad you didn't make realistic shields as well, maybe adding kite and tower shields, and targes. But still, I bow my head to you. This, plus a mount system, and my head will explode from the sheer amazingness.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.0 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on August 28, 2014, 03:46:36 am
It's too bad you didn't make realistic shields as well, maybe adding kite and tower shields, and targes.

Oh, I completely forgot to mention. My mod includes 5 shields. Buckler, round, heater, kite and tower. I'll add those to the post.

And thank you. "Realism", or rather, "authenticity", was my goal. As to whether I've achieved it is anyone's call.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.0 [40.xx]
Post by: Meph on August 28, 2014, 04:00:04 am
Do you know about Mifkis Twbt? Its possible to add graphics to the items, give them unique tiles. I am sure some people that see a "Byrnie" or "Goedendag" or "Short Seax" will not know what they are looking at without opening wikipedia. With tiles, it would be a bit easier.

I would also ask around if anyone (maklak most likely, or one of the dfhack crew) for a script that reads out the details. Name, Attack Skill, Edged or Blunt and minimum size/material size would be good to know for users. It would be great if this is included in a readme as a table. I only mention it, because I added a similar amount of weapons to Masterwork at some point, and I got a lot (seriously a lot) of people asking which weapon uses which skill. And ammo types of course.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.0 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on August 28, 2014, 04:14:59 am
Do you know about Mifkis Twbt? Its possible to add graphics to the items, give them unique tiles. I am sure some people that see a "Byrnie" or "Goedendag" or "Short Seax" will not know what they are looking at without opening wikipedia. With tiles, it would be a bit easier.
Yes, I'm aware of some not knowing what particular weapons are. I did attempt to minimise this problem by using as many "common names" as I could (or rather, let myself get away with). For example I chose breastplate over cuirass, upper greaves over cuisses, tower shield over pavise, and a plethora of other names. Some names, such as goedendag, sounded much better to me than "spiked staff" or something similar. I am also always looking for ways to influence people to educate themselves on history, and hopefully interesting names will spark said interest into the flame of said education.

However, adding custom tiles to items does sound like something I could get into. I do dabble in pixel art. I'll give it a look.


Name, Attack Skill, Edged or Blunt and minimum size/material size would be good to know for users. It would be great if this is included in a readme as a table.
This goes tucked under the chart of what-fits-under-what, and thusly into the box of things I was hoping I wouldn't have to do. I do see your point, and I will try to make this information easily accessible in the near future. I do not think a script would be necessary, however, if anyone with the skills to make one are so inclined, I certainly wouldn't object.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.0 [40.xx]
Post by: Meph on August 28, 2014, 04:19:19 am
The script already exists: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=126953.0

I just wanst sure if you know how to handle perl, you have to install it and run the script from a command box, so maybe maklak himself could help you with this better. 
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.0 [40.xx]
Post by: StagnantSoul on August 28, 2014, 04:24:53 am
MASSIVE thumbs up to you. I'll try this out tomorrow, see how realistic it is. Arena mode until I find the best three setups, then royally abuse them. I can't wait to use this. Are the armours solely designed for dwarves, or will they scale to fit other civilizations as well?
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.0 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on August 28, 2014, 04:43:06 am
The script already exists: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=126953.0

I just wanst sure if you know how to handle perl, you have to install it and run the script from a command box, so maybe maklak himself could help you with this better.
Righto. I'll look into it. Thank you.

MASSIVE thumbs up to you. I'll try this out tomorrow, see how realistic it is. Arena mode until I find the best three setups, then royally abuse them. I can't wait to use this. Are the armours solely designed for dwarves, or will they scale to fit other civilizations as well?
The weapons are made with their real-life sizes in mind. Dwarfs and elves simply cannot handle some weapons (very well). My pre-configured entity_default is set up to respect this. Armour, however, should work for whatever creature has it, as it currently works in vanilla.

In all honesty, in my own raws I have elves tweaked to make metal weapons. My justification is that they already "mutilate" their source of wood to make their equipment as it is, so why not have them go full hypocrite and use it to smith? I did this for simplicity and for a larger challenge during Fortress mode, and I recommend others to do something similar, especially when using my mod.

Otherwise... elves seem to do okay. Wooden versions of my weapons can tear muscle well enough, granted the victim is unarmoured.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.2 [40.xx]
Post by: Lewa263 on August 28, 2014, 09:01:26 pm
Is a partisan counted as a pike or spear? It's not in the list in your post, but I see it in-game.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.2 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on August 28, 2014, 09:05:13 pm
Is a partisan counted as a pike or spear? It's not in the list in your post, but I see it in-game.
Oh. My mistake, it's a spear. I have it listed as "spetum", having forgotten I renamed it to "partisan".
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.3 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on August 28, 2014, 10:47:49 pm
Making this post for version 1.3, as it actually adds an item and will therefore require you to re-generate the world should you care enough to want it.

Leather body armour is now an option, which it previously was not. Leather armour can make a difference, but the difference will be minimal. It can turn a lethal disembowelment into a severe wound, which may be just enough to spare a life. It is, however, leagues better than cloth armour such as Gambesons and Aketons, which serve more appropriately as armour padding than armour itself.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.3 [40.xx]
Post by: SalmonGod on August 29, 2014, 12:01:59 am
Do you mind if I use this as a base starting point for my own modding purposes?
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.3 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on August 29, 2014, 12:07:36 am
Do you mind if I use this as a base starting point for my own modding purposes?
I do not mind, but as with any mod I would appreciate credit.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.3 [40.xx]
Post by: SalmonGod on August 29, 2014, 12:10:47 am
Do you mind if I use this as a base starting point for my own modding purposes?
I do not mind, but as with any mod I would appreciate credit.

Intended!
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.3 [40.xx]
Post by: 1v0ry_k1ng on August 29, 2014, 03:31:27 am
any chance you can provide a mirror? My work laptop blocks DFFD  :(
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.3 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on August 29, 2014, 04:30:17 am
any chance you can provide a mirror? My work laptop blocks DFFD  :(
Will this work?

http://www.mediafire.com/download/cphr020qdnwm2xx/StalsArmouryPackv1_3_40xx.zip
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.3 [40.xx]
Post by: 1v0ry_k1ng on August 29, 2014, 10:00:15 am
yup - thanks!
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.4 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on August 29, 2014, 02:34:02 pm
Version 1.4 out, and, with that containing the smallest tweak of all, I announce the end of the rapid-fire update period.

I will probably not be changing much without feedback after this point, unless I find more things that are glaringly mishandled.

(Mirror: http://www.mediafire.com/download/6g9i8y9iu74wa7l/StalsArmouryPackv1_4_40xx.zip)
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.4 [40.xx]
Post by: 1v0ry_k1ng on August 30, 2014, 03:14:05 pm
One problem imo - having a helmet with 100% coverage means NPCs will stand and bounce weapons off unconscious peoples helmets 100% of the time for ingame months without killing them..
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.4 [40.xx]
Post by: Lewa263 on August 30, 2014, 03:25:05 pm
So I found something inconvenient when I tried to play Fortress Mode with your mod. Your pickaxes are much larger than vanilla picks, so they cost 324 embark points. I think I'll stick to Adventure Mode with this, because that's probably what you had in mind anyway.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.4 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on August 30, 2014, 04:14:42 pm
One problem imo - having a helmet with 100% coverage means NPCs will stand and bounce weapons off unconscious peoples helmets 100% of the time for ingame months without killing them..
Bladed weapons, yes, unless there is enough force behind the blade to bruise through the helmet then the victim is completely safe. Some blunt weapons will also bounce without enough force, but persistence is rewarding.

As with real-life close combat my mod actually puts a lot of weight on to wrestling, and the tactic of occasionally manipulating your opponents armour (in this case, removing the helmet) to exploit their weaknesses. I realise the AI cannot normally do this, and I compensate by balancing for common sense; sword vs hammer in armoured combat, the hammer is going to (usually) win, period. Otherwise the sword has the advantage in unarmoured combat.

So I found something inconvenient when I tried to play Fortress Mode with your mod. Your pickaxes are much larger than vanilla picks, so they cost 324 embark points. I think I'll stick to Adventure Mode with this, because that's probably what you had in mind anyway.
Ah... I hadn't thought of embark points beyond adding the hatchet for a cheap woodcutting axe to start with, though that could also be false now too. It's been a while since I tested Fortress mode, and you're right about Adventure mode being my main concern. I will look into fixing the pickaxe problem, scold me for not thoroughly inspecting Fortress mode!
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.4 [40.xx]
Post by: Meph on August 30, 2014, 04:18:15 pm
Quote
scold me for not thoroughly inspecting Fortress mode!
So... did you check how many bars each item costs? Thats material-size related, and if you have very large items (size => high value) that have a low material-size (not many bars to make), then people can spam those cheaply made, but highly valuable weapons and buy out caravans easily.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.4 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on August 30, 2014, 04:22:30 pm
So... did you check how many bars each item costs? Thats material-size related, and if you have very large items (size => high value) that have a low material-size (not many bars to make), then people can spam those cheaply made, but highly valuable weapons and buy out caravans easily.
This I did keep in mind. Unless the inner workings has changed, it should be material size = 3x bar cost. The breastplate should be the most expensive piece to make, with a material size of 15 (5 bars!).

The issue arises from the fact that I can not directly set embark point costs (to my knowlege), so therefore it escaped my concern as a "hidden" detail.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.4 [40.xx]
Post by: Meph on August 30, 2014, 04:24:43 pm
Embark points (aka ingame value) is directly linked to size. Thats the only thing you can affect in the weapon/armor object to regulate its value. Maybe Toady One should consider adding a VALUE token, similar to the one tools use.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.4 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on August 30, 2014, 04:29:46 pm
Embark points (aka ingame value) is directly linked to size. Thats the only thing you can affect in the weapon/armor object to regulate its value. Maybe Toady One should consider adding a VALUE token, similar to the one tools use.
This I did not fully understand, but now I do. Thank you.

For the most part it should be strong weapon = large weapon = high material size, and should therefore be mostly okay, but I can think of a few weapons that could be problematic. This will be mended with the next update.

A VALUE token would be much appreciated as well.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.4 [40.xx]
Post by: SalmonGod on August 30, 2014, 04:31:25 pm
So Stalhansch, would you be willing to put some thought into what values would be appropriate for throwing weapons?  I'd like to make five types of throwing ammo (throwing clubs, knives, axes, hammers, and javelins), and turn every primary melee weapon into a launcher for those ammo types.  But I have not studied DF's combat physics well enough to determine the most appropriate values for them.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.4 [40.xx]
Post by: Meph on August 30, 2014, 04:44:23 pm
Ammo is difficult, because its always created in 25 ammo stacks. Custom reactions can of course help, instead of using permitted items in the entity file, but they would need a new workshop and are marked as foreign. This means they need to be added manually to military uniforms.

Ammo easily gets very high value because of that. The problem is that size is the most important factor for ammo to do damage. I personally find it very tricky to get a balance between combat damage and value. My cannonballs and javelins are way to valuable.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.4 [40.xx]
Post by: SalmonGod on August 30, 2014, 04:55:24 pm
Didn't realize you couldn't do smaller stacks.  I supposed that also means it's only carried in stacks of 25 also (unless spent and scavenged).
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on August 30, 2014, 05:40:34 pm
Version 1.5 out.

I did my best to fix most of the costs of the items, but some items may still be odd. As stated, without a proper VALUE token I am not sure what more I can do. It seems I would have to rework the files with a different model of thinking, essentially re-doing the entire mod. I am not against this entirely if it fixes what can be seen as a major flaw, but I would prefer not to have to.

I'll have to do some research.

(Mirror: http://www.mediafire.com/download/5e36au3ax3txjuz/StalsArmouryPackv1_5_40xx.zip)
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: 1v0ry_k1ng on August 31, 2014, 05:55:50 pm
Quote
Bladed weapons, yes, unless there is enough force behind the blade to bruise through the helmet then the victim is completely safe. Some blunt weapons will also bounce without enough force, but persistence is rewarding.

As with real-life close combat my mod actually puts a lot of weight on to wrestling, and the tactic of occasionally manipulating your opponents armour (in this case, removing the helmet) to exploit their weaknesses. I realise the AI cannot normally do this, and I compensate by balancing for common sense; sword vs hammer in armoured combat, the hammer is going to (usually) win, period. Otherwise the sword has the advantage in unarmoured combat.

but NPCs will just attack the helmet over and over for months, which is stupid. Balance with the assumption that the AI will be performing most the combat imo
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on August 31, 2014, 06:42:18 pm
but NPCs will just attack the helmet over and over for months, which is stupid. Balance with the assumption that the AI will be performing most the combat imo

Pastebin (http://pastebin.com/HsG1eAtt)

A couple of competent, fully-armoured, sword-wielding humans seemed to figure something out in, I'd wager, less than 30 minutes of in-game time. I could be wrong about the time, but it certainly wasn't "months".

Balancing for AI would mean allowing swords to consistently hit through armour, which would defeat half of the purpose of this mod. This mod is designed to make armour mean something, which it does.

I can also recall several times during testing where one subject with a sword stabbed through a helmet and killed their opponent. It does not happen often, as it shouldn't, but it does happen.

Speaking of which...
Code: [Select]
Human 1 stabs Human 2 in the right lower arm with his iron arming sword, tearing the muscle through the iron right gauntlet!
An artery has been opened by the attack!
The Human 2 loses hold of the iron arming sword.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: SalmonGod on August 31, 2014, 09:44:52 pm
Looking at the raws, I don't see any functional difference between the Pick and Mattock?  Is there a purpose for separating them?
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on August 31, 2014, 10:00:57 pm
Looking at the raws, I don't see any functional difference between the Pick and Mattock?  Is there a purpose for separating them?
This mod is actually only part of a larger mod I've been working on that attempts to flesh out the races and give more depth to their strengths, including two separate human entities.

In this case I gave elves access to the metal industry and an entire noble system that serves as an antithesis to dwarves, with their armies focusing primarily on stealth squads. The mattock serves as their form of pickaxe, solely for theme. I did not give elves access to the metal industry in the pre-configured entity_default I released with this mod, nor do they have the mattock. I left the mattock (as well as other weapons) in for anyone that wishes to use them for similar purposes, or whatever else, without being assigned to any race.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: StagnantSoul on September 01, 2014, 05:14:57 pm
I was using a bunch of the armour set ups in arena mode, and, oddly, I found severed parts were more common with new armours than with the old. I may have just been leaving parts uncovered by accident, but cloven arms, hands, and feet were all over the place in the most of my tests.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on September 01, 2014, 05:18:44 pm
I was using a bunch of the armour set ups in arena mode, and, oddly, I found severed parts were more common with new armours than with the old. I may have just been leaving parts uncovered by accident, but cloven arms, hands, and feet were all over the place in the most of my tests.
That doesn't sound likely. What set-ups were you using? Material plays a large role as well.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: StagnantSoul on September 01, 2014, 07:50:12 pm
An aketon, bascinet, upper and lower greaves, chain mail gauntlets and mittens, and a kite shield, the weapons were scimitars, arming swords, and adzes.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on September 01, 2014, 10:11:19 pm
An aketon, bascinet, upper and lower greaves, chain mail gauntlets and mittens, and a kite shield, the weapons were scimitars, arming swords, and adzes.
You weren't wearing any metal body armour. The aketon is (should) be made only of cloth. The gambeson is a slightly bulkier variant of cloth armour. They would only be useful against daggers and the like, and even then you would be better off with leather armour.

Also, in case, make note that lower greaves are boots, so you should be wearing two of them if you were not.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: StagnantSoul on September 01, 2014, 10:57:30 pm
(Face+palm) Thanks! I was thinking of the aketon from Dungeon Master, which was a metal mail shirt. I'll pop in a set of scale or chain body armour.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: Scoops Novel on September 03, 2014, 06:17:58 am
Can weapons and armour be damaged? Could they? And how's ranged combat?
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on September 03, 2014, 04:04:05 pm
Can weapons and armour be damaged? Could they? And how's ranged combat?
If I'm not mistaken, armour can only be damaged if left on a refuse pile. I don't think I've ever seen a worn weapon though. This is all part of vanilla functionality of course. I did nothing to change this. I don't know if it's possible to make it so items take damage with use regardless.

Ranged combat is almost as effective as it is in vanilla against anything but plate armour. Plate armour, and to an extent chain armour, will stop a good portion of projectiles. Note that they may still cause internal wounds such as bruising. Crossbows are the only ranged weapon that can consistently damage through plate, as they were intended to upon invention, however, even crossbows have trouble actually killing through plate.



Here would be a bow test with 25 arrows, however, I was unable to run a test where the target didn't arrive at the bow user and kick his butt. For the most part, the target was completely safe from the bow user, save for one test (out of 6) where the bow user managed to headshot the target straight through a bascinet.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: Liber celi on September 11, 2014, 06:45:31 pm
This mod looks great and I'd like to use it in an Extented Crafting mod I'm working on.

A question though: Many items have a COVERAGE of >200. Why? From what I gathered, the COVERAGE tag is a percentage, and a value of more than 100 has no additional effect.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on September 11, 2014, 10:40:13 pm
This mod looks great and I'd like to use it in an Extented Crafting mod I'm working on.

A question though: Many items have a COVERAGE of >200. Why? From what I gathered, the COVERAGE tag is a percentage, and a value of more than 100 has no additional effect.
Most of my testing and research on values other than the attack values was done long ago.

Based on the testing and research I had done, it seemed that the higher the percentage, including beyond 100, the more that the attacks were absorbed by the piece of armour. Armour was the first part of my mod to be "completed", as I wanted to tailour the weapons to the armour. It made more sense to me that way, and I thought that trying to tailour the armour to the weapons would be a longer and more haphazard process of trial and error. That is why most of the weapons (if not all, come to think of it) in my mod are technically piercing weapons. They need to try and get through several "layers" (%'s) of armour, and this can only really be done through either pierce or blunt damage.

It could very well be that my model is wrong or no longer accurate with recent versions, however it appears to work how I intended it to currently, so I don't see a use in changing it unless someone else can educate me further.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: Splint on September 15, 2014, 12:46:16 am
If Dwarves can use glaives I will be a happy person. I have no idea why but I have a demented fondness for the weapon. Regardless, the armor alone basically being in line with how I do uniforms makes this worth getting.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on September 15, 2014, 05:38:14 am
If Dwarves can use glaives I will be a happy person. I have no idea why but I have a demented fondness for the weapon. Regardless, the armor alone basically being in line with how I do uniforms makes this worth getting.
They can, technically. Glaives are just below the limit for an average-sized dwarf to wield them. They can only wield glaives multigrasp for this reason, and weaker, more sickly dwarf specimens may not be able to wield glaives at all. (You can of course change this yourself by editing MINIMUM_SIZE for the glaive appropriately.)

You will also need to add the glaive to the dwarf civilisation in entity_default yourself, as it is not there by default.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: Valikdu on September 15, 2014, 08:15:35 am
Can I include these weapons in my mod?
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: Splint on September 15, 2014, 02:45:53 pm
If Dwarves can use glaives I will be a happy person. I have no idea why but I have a demented fondness for the weapon. Regardless, the armor alone basically being in line with how I do uniforms makes this worth getting.
They can, technically. Glaives are just below the limit for an average-sized dwarf to wield them. They can only wield glaives multigrasp for this reason, and weaker, more sickly dwarf specimens may not be able to wield glaives at all. (You can of course change this yourself by editing MINIMUM_SIZE for the glaive appropriately.)

You will also need to add the glaive to the dwarf civilisation in entity_default yourself, as it is not there by default.
Two handed is fine by me, weapons like this I never give shields to the wielders of anyway.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on September 15, 2014, 04:04:12 pm
Can I include these weapons in my mod?
You may.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: Illogical_Blox on September 18, 2014, 03:01:12 pm
Very nice! I'll be sticking with luculle's weapons for now, but I like the concept.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: Ngosp Umbabok on September 21, 2014, 01:32:37 pm
One suggestion - I don't know if you changed the rate at which NPC's use armor in the mod but when I played with it the impression I got was that NPC's didn't use any more armor then they did in vanilla which is not very much at all.

the majority of goblins and bandits I have fought with this mod have had no armor at all and when a bandit chief or master did have any armor it was frequently just a helmet and breastplate.

Increasing the rate of armor usage of all NPC's or just important ones like bandit/goblin leaders would make the effects of the mod more noticeable because right now it just seems that the only effects of the mod in adv. mode are making the PC more invulerable when not fighting maces/hammers
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: Splint on September 21, 2014, 03:25:58 pm
Well, they've never really worn much to start with, though leaders would sometimes come packing full suits of armor. Sometimes. That's not really something mods can control.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on September 21, 2014, 05:57:10 pm
I was going to ask if increasing armour presence was possible. I didn't think it was.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: perkel on September 26, 2014, 01:09:09 pm
what does Atlatl shoot ? Arrows ? bolts ? or threre is no ammo ?
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on September 26, 2014, 05:14:59 pm
what does Atlatl shoot ? Arrows ? bolts ? or threre is no ammo ?
It launches Darts. Long Darts and normal Darts.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: perkel on September 28, 2014, 07:38:44 am
ok thanks for reply.


Also i am kind of new to DF modding. So i have a question. If i overwrite for example Obsidian tileset with you would it work ? I mean those tilesets have files the same as yours and overwriting them would probably cause some conflicts...
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on September 28, 2014, 05:33:50 pm
Also i am kind of new to DF modding. So i have a question. If i overwrite for example Obsidian tileset with you would it work ? I mean those tilesets have files the same as yours and overwriting them would probably cause some conflicts...
If by that you mean overwriting Obsidian's tileset set with my own tileset, then my own tileset would show instead of Obsidian's. Graphic sets are a bit different, as graphic sets include text files and go in the graphics folder. You would need to remove any conflicting text files from the graphics folder, otherwise things may display weirdly.

By conflicting text files I am referring to text files that include the same entities. For example, I have a text file in my set that is for dwarves, you would need to locate and remove the Obsidian text file for dwarves for mine to display correctly. Keep in mind this has to be done inside save files too if you want them to work.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: cyberTripping on October 25, 2014, 05:06:53 pm
Looks like this needs a tiny bit of tweaking with .14. entity and tools are the only offenders by the looks of it, so the end user can just tweak the current version

edit: actually, item_tool seems like a bit of a mess, difference wise. Maybe it's best to wait for someone who knows what they're doing to fix it.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: Stalhansch on October 26, 2014, 03:32:35 am
Looks like this needs a tiny bit of tweaking with .14. entity and tools are the only offenders by the looks of it, so the end user can just tweak the current version

edit: actually, item_tool seems like a bit of a mess, difference wise. Maybe it's best to wait for someone who knows what they're doing to fix it.
Thank you for telling me. I will look into it soon.

Edit: Should be sufficiently updated. Please let me know if there are any more complications.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: cyberTripping on October 26, 2014, 03:45:51 pm
Thank you. I consider this to be a staple mod, glad to see it working for .14.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: Valikdu on October 27, 2014, 08:09:39 am
.14 added the stepladder tool to the tools file and the entities. I don't think there's anything else.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: NoobKid on November 02, 2014, 08:54:19 am
Awesome mod! Can anyone tell me how Stal changed the time it takes to fire a ranged weapon in this mod? Vanilla DF ranged weapons seemed to take a lot longer to fire.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: Stalhansch on November 02, 2014, 04:33:37 pm
Awesome mod! Can anyone tell me how Stal changed the time it takes to fire a ranged weapon in this mod? Vanilla DF ranged weapons seemed to take a lot longer to fire.

It seemed like this to me when testing in the Arena, but I'm not sure to be honest. I couldn't find any values that seemed to affect reload speeds and the like for ranged weapons, but it could be that I don't understand something.

I never did test to see if my ranged weapons actually were faster than vanilla.

Code: (My crossbow) [Select]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_CROSSBOW]
[NAME:crossbow:crossbows]
[SIZE:3000]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[RANGED:CROSSBOW:BOLT]
[SHOOT_FORCE:1300]
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:350]
[TWO_HANDED:125000]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:50000]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:7]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:500:0:bash:bashes:stock:1250]
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:4]

Code: (Vanilla crossbow) [Select]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_CROSSBOW]
[NAME:crossbow:crossbows]
[SIZE:400]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[RANGED:CROSSBOW:BOLT]
[SHOOT_FORCE:1000]
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:200]  This is just to make sure a near-weightless object doesn't go faster than the string could possibly go.
[TWO_HANDED:0]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:15000]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:4000:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:1250]
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3]
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: cyberTripping on November 07, 2014, 01:53:47 am
I was wondering, what is the purpose of the tiles for most of the tools and such being changed?
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: Roses on November 07, 2014, 05:01:00 pm
Awesome mod! Can anyone tell me how Stal changed the time it takes to fire a ranged weapon in this mod? Vanilla DF ranged weapons seemed to take a lot longer to fire.

It seemed like this to me when testing in the Arena, but I'm not sure to be honest. I couldn't find any values that seemed to affect reload speeds and the like for ranged weapons, but it could be that I don't understand something.

I never did test to see if my ranged weapons actually were faster than vanilla.

Code: (My crossbow) [Select]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_CROSSBOW]
[NAME:crossbow:crossbows]
[SIZE:3000]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[RANGED:CROSSBOW:BOLT]
[SHOOT_FORCE:1300]
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:350]
[TWO_HANDED:125000]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:50000]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:7]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:500:0:bash:bashes:stock:1250]
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:4]

Code: (Vanilla crossbow) [Select]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_CROSSBOW]
[NAME:crossbow:crossbows]
[SIZE:400]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[RANGED:CROSSBOW:BOLT]
[SHOOT_FORCE:1000]
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:200]  This is just to make sure a near-weightless object doesn't go faster than the string could possibly go.
[TWO_HANDED:0]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:15000]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:4000:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:1250]
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3]

I believe that ranged weapons are limited to one shot on the screen at a time, and having a faster velocity means faster firing, if I remember correct.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: NoobKid on November 07, 2014, 10:40:12 pm
Oh, thanks. Now I don't have to get brained by a sneaking corpse every time I want to Rick all the other Zs.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: Stalhansch on November 08, 2014, 12:31:45 pm
I was wondering, what is the purpose of the tiles for most of the tools and such being changed?
I don't recall changing them. It might have been tied to my tileset where I might have changed them for preference and forgot about it. They can be easily changed again by editing the item_tool.txt.

I believe that ranged weapons are limited to one shot on the screen at a time, and having a faster velocity means faster firing, if I remember correct.
Interesting... I'll have to test that out.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: Splint on November 09, 2014, 06:38:16 am
Seems there's one hiccup in the armor in this mod (which is stellar by the way,) and that's lack of protection for the upper arms. In some testing I've been doing I've had many people killed due to a distinct lack of upper arm protection against more-or-less blunt strikes. Don't suppose there's an idea on how I can fix this is there? Something smallish on the layering so it can be fitted with a breastplate and mail hauberk.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: Stalhansch on November 10, 2014, 11:43:53 am
Seems there's one hiccup in the armor in this mod (which is stellar by the way,) and that's lack of protection for the upper arms. In some testing I've been doing I've had many people killed due to a distinct lack of upper arm protection against more-or-less blunt strikes. Don't suppose there's an idea on how I can fix this is there? Something smallish on the layering so it can be fitted with a breastplate and mail hauberk.
This is actually intentional.

Breastplates are nearly invulnerable to attacks, so they only cover vital organs in the torso. Slightly lesser armours that are not-so-invulnerable cover more body space, such as lamellar armour and brigandines. I thought it would be slightly ridiculous if one could be completely safe from normal attacks.

Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: Splint on November 10, 2014, 12:30:55 pm

Unrelated question, what's the difference between the haubergeon and hauberk? Last time I tried to give soldiers with haubergeons breastplates they threw them on the floor, but I can give them to soldiers with hauberks just fine. I ask this because I just tested it and the habergeon-equipped unit ditched thier breastplate and at a glance I can't see any difference.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: Stalhansch on November 10, 2014, 12:46:22 pm

Unrelated question, what's the difference between the haubergeon and hauberk? Last time I tried to give soldiers with haubergeons breastplates they threw them on the floor, but I can give them to soldiers with hauberks just fine. I ask this because I just tested it and the habergeon-equipped unit ditched thier breastplate and at a glance I can't see any difference.
I appreciate the feedback. It doesn't come off as ranty to me. Going along with the reason I gave breastplates an obvious weakpoint, most of the armours are made with a specific time frame in mind: that being the 900ad-1300ad period. A complete plate harness didn't exist during this period, save for the potential few prototype creations.

If you wish to solve the breastplate problem yourself its as simple as changing this:
Code: [Select]
[ITEM_ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_PLATE]
[NAME:breastplate:breastplates]
[ARMORLEVEL:3]
[UBSTEP:0]
[LBSTEP:0]
[SHAPED]
[LAYER:ARMOR]
[COVERAGE:300]
[LAYER_SIZE:20]
[LAYER_PERMIT:28]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:15]
[HARD]
[METAL]
into this:
Code: [Select]
[ITEM_ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_PLATE]
[NAME:breastplate:breastplates]
[ARMORLEVEL:3]
[UBSTEP:1] <--
[LBSTEP:0]
[SHAPED]
[LAYER:ARMOR]
[COVERAGE:300]
[LAYER_SIZE:20]
[LAYER_PERMIT:28]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:15]
[HARD]
[METAL]
This will make it cover the upper arms (ignoring the arrow for hilighting the changed bit).

Regarding the difference between the byrnie, haubergeon and hauberk: Historically the haubergeon and hauberk are two names for the same thing, but granted a few generations of development and you then have that typically hauberks are a bit longer than haubergeons, and the outlier byrnie being the shortest. Byrnies have a LB of 0, haubergeons 1, and hauberks 2. Otherwise essentially identical, thrown in for flavour.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: Splint on November 10, 2014, 12:58:13 pm
Quote
Regarding the difference between the byrnie, haubergeon and hauberk: Historically the haubergeon and hauberk are two names for the same thing, but granted a few generations of development and you then have that typically hauberks are a bit longer than haubergeons, and the outlier byrnie being the shortest. Byrnies have a LB of 0, haubergeons 1, and hauberks 2. Otherwise essentially identical, thrown in for flavour.

That's strange. Then why aren't the habergeons useable with a breastplate then?

Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: Stalhansch on November 10, 2014, 01:09:59 pm
That's strange. Then why aren't the habergeons useable with a breastplate then?
I'm not encountering your problem. If you've made both hauberks and haubergeons, they can be worn overtop each other and will prevent the creature from wearing a breastplate; you may have manufactured some confusion if so. It could also be some other layers of clothing stacking similarly that overwhelms the layer permit of the breastplate. Those are the only conditions I can think of, as my character is currently wearing both a breastplate and a haubergeon perfectly fine.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: Splint on November 10, 2014, 01:19:18 pm
That's strange. Then why aren't the habergeons useable with a breastplate then?
I'm not encountering your problem. If you've made both hauberks and haubergeons, they can be worn overtop each other and will prevent the creature from wearing a breastplate; you may have manufactured some confusion if so. It could also be some other layers of clothing stacking similarly that overwhelms the layer permit of the breastplate. Those are the only conditions I can think of, as my character is currently wearing both a breastplate and a haubergeon perfectly fine.

The test uniforms consist of a cloth outfit (tunic or in this case a regular shirt, trousers, hood, cloak, and leg/hand wraps,) and an iron suit of armor, generally a barbute, chain coif, hauberk, breastplate, upper and lower greaves, and gauntlets. Even when I try the exact same set-up with a tunic or with the cloak and shirt removed the habergeon-equipped dwarves keep throwing thier breastplates on the floor.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: Stalhansch on November 11, 2014, 12:10:21 pm
The test uniforms consist of a cloth outfit (tunic or in this case a regular shirt, trousers, hood, cloak, and leg/hand wraps,) and an iron suit of armor, generally a barbute, chain coif, hauberk, breastplate, upper and lower greaves, and gauntlets. Even when I try the exact same set-up with a tunic or with the cloak and shirt removed the habergeon-equipped dwarves keep throwing thier breastplates on the floor.
I did some testing throughout the day today and yesterday and I can't seem to figure out why you're having this problem. I've had dwarves toss breastplates as well, but most of them have not.

I want to say it's a DF logic problem, but I'm not 100% sure. Needs more testing.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: Floppypig on November 11, 2014, 02:49:31 pm
How compatible is it with 40.15
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: Splint on November 11, 2014, 03:14:27 pm
How compatible is it with 40.15

Works fine. Been doing my Tests in 40.15, and I'll add the habergeon problem I've been having has been persisting since effort that.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: Stalhansch on November 11, 2014, 05:52:21 pm
Alright, well, here are the two armours in question:
Code: [Select]
[ITEM_ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_HAUBERGEON]
[NAME:haubergeon:haubergeons]
[ARMORLEVEL:2]
[UBSTEP:1]
[LBSTEP:1]
[LAYER:ARMOR]
[COVERAGE:200]
[LAYER_SIZE:12]
[LAYER_PERMIT:16]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
[METAL]
[STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_CHAIN_ALL]
Code: [Select]
[ITEM_ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_HAUBERK]
[NAME:hauberk:hauberks]
[ARMORLEVEL:2]
[UBSTEP:1]
[LBSTEP:2]
[LAYER:ARMOR]
[COVERAGE:200]
[LAYER_SIZE:12]
[LAYER_PERMIT:16]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
[METAL]
[STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_CHAIN_ALL]
Virtually identical. It must be something else, and I can't seem to figure out what. I'm at a loss.

We know haubergeons can be worn with breastplates, I've found that easily enough, as can hauberks. It must be some kind of preference conflict.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: Splint on November 11, 2014, 06:03:40 pm
I'm going to try ordering the equipment differently and see if that has an impact. Such strangeness.
EDIT: No change. They keep dumping them on the floor for whatever reason. I thought it might be order since it happened once before, but this just consistently keeps happening.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: Liber celi on November 12, 2014, 05:13:32 am
Edit: eh, carry on.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: Floppypig on November 14, 2014, 11:12:26 pm
I'd just remove the haubergeon i suppose
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: Stalhansch on November 18, 2014, 05:17:19 pm
After extensive testing I still can't seem to make sense of why it's happening.

I can only agree with the above suggestion. I don't see why you would give a civ both the haubergeon and the hauberk anyway since they work identically, it would be best to only give them one to avoid whatever bug this is.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: Splint on November 18, 2014, 05:34:07 pm
After extensive testing I still can't seem to make sense of why it's happening.

I can only agree with the above suggestion. I don't see why you would give a civ both the haubergeon and the hauberk anyway since they work identically, it would be best to only give them one to avoid whatever bug this is.

Actually far as I know the two were already in the entity files provided with the download (the only changes I made were adding one weapon and removing three to the dwarf one.) The tests were in the Arena, though fort mode testing reveals that habergeon-armored dwarves would also refuse to equip breastplates (one civ having not developed the hauberk while another did, with similar results.)

It's not a big deal, I just found it strange is all.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14]
Post by: Stalhansch on November 18, 2014, 05:45:35 pm
Dwarves are only granted the hauberk in the entity file that comes with the mod. In fact I'm pretty sure I have it so that only plains humans use haubergeons.

The tests were in the Arena, though fort mode testing reveals that habergeon-armored dwarves would also refuse to equip breastplates (one civ having not developed the hauberk while another did, with similar results.)
I'm going to keep testing until I narrow down what exactly could be causing this. I appreciate the help you've given so far.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14+]
Post by: Splint on November 18, 2014, 05:49:12 pm
It was an earlier version of the mod where it cropped up, but it still occurs when doing arena tests. Not a big deal, just strange, as I said.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14+]
Post by: Floppypig on November 25, 2014, 04:44:30 pm
Is it going to be updated anytime soon?
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14+]
Post by: Ladygolem on November 25, 2014, 07:37:27 pm
Is it going to be updated anytime soon?

Is there anything incompatible with the current version here? I don't recall the item raws changing at all since 40.14; I don't have every changelog memorised but nothing about armor or items comes to mind.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14+]
Post by: Splint on November 25, 2014, 07:43:27 pm
Is it going to be updated anytime soon?

Is there anything incompatible with the current version here? I don't recall the item raws changing at all since 40.14; I don't have every changelog memorised but nothing about armor or items comes to mind.

Unless there's any changes that affect weapons or armor directly he doesn't need to update them. I've used them in 40.16, 17, and 18.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14+]
Post by: Quartz_Mace on December 02, 2014, 09:31:55 pm
I would like to say, as a historical weapon enthusiast, I love this mod. It is so much more realistic than regular DF and much more detailed. I like being able to choose between different specialized weapons.

A few of questions:
1. How did you handle the vanilla problem of maces being worse than hammers at everything?

2. Do you plan to add polearms, such as pollaxes? If so, what weapon skills would they use? will you add pollaxes and if so, what weapon skill will they use?

3. For ranged weapons, are they still loaded and shot in one action as in vanilla in adventure mode?

4: Is the "War pick" a Horseman's pick?

EDIT: Just realized that you do have plenty of polearms listed under the pikes section. I overlooked that at first, sorry.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14+]
Post by: Ladygolem on December 02, 2014, 10:38:33 pm
This mod looks great! It's clear you've done your research. Definitely adding this to my download list.

Question: the item list, while varied, seems very eurocentric; do you have any plans to expand the mod in the future with other culture's weapons and armours? There's many medieval Persian, Indian, Chinese, south-east Asian swords and axes to consider, not to mention the obvious katanas of Japan. Notable examples that would be interesting to see: the dao, urumi, parashu, ciupaga, assegai/iklwa, gada, and bulawa come to mind, in terms of weapons.

I noticed also that you included roman armour and clothes like the caligae; which opens up a world of possibilities in terms of ancient and prehistoric weapons + armour one could use as well. I know this is a lot of potential work; but I believe the mod would be that much more satisfying for it. Who says all dwarves have to be limited to being merely small vikings, after all?
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14+]
Post by: Stalhansch on December 04, 2014, 08:06:37 am
A few of questions:
1. How did you handle the vanilla problem of maces being worse than hammers at everything?

2. will you add pollaxes and if so, what weapon skill will they use?

3. For ranged weapons, are they still loaded and shot in one action as in vanilla in adventure mode?

4: Is the "War pick" a Horseman's pick?
1. In theory, my maces should be better suited against lightly- or un-armoured victims opponents while hammers have better performance against armoured ones. However, this is DF, so results may vary.

2. The problem with adding new weapons such as that is that it can get difficult to make them... unique, in terms of performance. There already exists a few redundant weapons as it is. I opted to not include some weapons so that I could expand on the sub-type with better variety that filled in the gaps instead.

3. They should, at least from my observations. But it was recently brought to my attention that ranged doesn't quite work as I intended. I'm currently trying to re-figure it.

4. It can be described as that, yes.



Question: the item list, while varied, seems very eurocentric; do you have any plans to expand the mod in the future with other culture's weapons and armours? There's many medieval Persian, Indian, Chinese, south-east Asian swords and axes to consider, not to mention the obvious katanas of Japan. Notable examples that would be interesting to see: the dao, urumi, parashu, ciupaga, assegai/iklwa, gada, and bulawa come to mind, in terms of weapons.
My knowledge of weapons can be described as "eurocentric". I'm not too familiar with weapons outside of western europe--save for some common examples. This also ties in with my answer about redundant weapons above. On top of this I don't particularly feel that eastern weapons really fit into the style of DF; it would feel rather ham-handed of me to try and include them, especially the more 'obscure' examples.

Not to say I would be against trying to make a more eastern-focused pack should I feel inspired to do so. I would have to do a fair bit of research though.

I noticed also that you included roman armour and clothes like the caligae; which opens up a world of possibilities in terms of ancient and prehistoric weapons + armour one could use as well. I know this is a lot of potential work; but I believe the mod would be that much more satisfying for it. Who says all dwarves have to be limited to being merely small vikings, after all?
The items in question are actually examples that could be found in Britannia, or the Roman era of Britain, and while the items carry Roman names it does not necessarily restrict their style to that, merely their construction. These particular styles of footwear would have been found in many places, and while they may have fallen out of fashion-favour in most it does not mean their use fell so rapidly with it.

A prehistoric pack for DF does sound interesting, however. I'll have to consider that rather heavily.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14+]
Post by: Splint on December 04, 2014, 08:10:44 am
If you do make some kind of prehistoric gear pack that'd make my life easier.

And not to sound stupid (I'm not a weapon expert or anything,) but don't halberds already sorta-fill the role of poleaxe in DF?
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14+]
Post by: Stalhansch on December 04, 2014, 02:04:35 pm
And not to sound stupid (I'm not a weapon expert or anything,) but don't halberds already sorta-fill the role of poleaxe in DF?

Well this is when weapon classifications get a little muddy. Quartz_Mace used the term "pollaxe" which means something entirely different and more vague than simply "poleaxe". All poleaxes are pollaxes but not all pollaxes are poleaxes. That is to say, the term "poleaxe" can most typically refer to an axehead mounted upon a pole, but the term "pollaxe" refers to any type of non-spear weapon head mounted upon a pole--but not a halberd or an axe; halberds and axes are specific classifications.

Regardless you still have a point: halberds in DF very well do fill in the role of a poleaxe, and there already exists a couple of two-handed blunt weapons to speak of.

It's worth noting that many weapon names and classifications are quite modern... and quite arbitrary, evidently. Especially when it comes to swords.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14+]
Post by: Quartz_Mace on December 04, 2014, 06:57:01 pm
True, such as the term "short sword" which only means a sword that happens to be short.

Sorry if I was a bit unclear. I meant Pollaxe specifically. I really like their versatile use. You can hook and hack with the axe head, catch blades between the axe head and head spike, stab with the head spike, hook and perform blunt strikes with the hammer face opposite of the axe head, and stab with the point at the end of the haft. I always really liked the weapon because it provides a lot of versatility from a long range. I'd understand if you didn't add them, since you already have a lot of very detailed and specialized weapons, I was just wondering.

Also, what's your personal favorite sword type? I know it's a bit off topic, but I was just wondering.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5a [40.14+]
Post by: Stalhansch on December 05, 2014, 12:13:14 am
Sorry if I was a bit unclear. I meant Pollaxe specifically. I really like their versatile use. You can hook and hack with the axe head, catch blades between the axe head and head spike, stab with the head spike, hook and perform blunt strikes with the hammer face opposite of the axe head, and stab with the point at the end of the haft. I always really liked the weapon because it provides a lot of versatility from a long range. I'd understand if you didn't add them, since you already have a lot of very detailed and specialized weapons, I was just wondering.

Also, what's your personal favorite sword type? I know it's a bit off topic, but I was just wondering.

In truth, a pollaxe did once exist during the pre-release stage of my mod. I had difficulties balancing it, as it turned out to be a bit too effective. That is when I decided to break weapons down for variety and the pollaxe eventually manifested as the axehammer instead, which is still perhaps a weapon that is also too effective. I may re-include the pollaxe and similar weapons in a later release as an option. Though, going along with the idea of themed packs, I may create a late-medieval pack that includes more advanced weaponry.

As for my favourite sword type, I'd have to say migration period and early-medieval nordic pieces--or more colloquially, "viking" swords--for the variety of ways their hilts are shown to be decorated and designed. I also have a fondness for the look of traditionally pattern welded blades.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.6 [40.14+]
Post by: Stalhansch on December 15, 2014, 06:48:09 pm
Version 1.6 out.

Temporary fix for ranged weapons shooting faster than intended. Still working on something better.

I'm laying down some stonework for themed packs, as mentioned before.

Stoneage pack is being attempted first, but testing stone weapons has proven to be difficult, as stone doesn't seem to show up in the testing arena. A work-around has been to just list the stone material in the inorganic_metal.txt with appropriate values, but it's a hassle. It may be a while yet.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.6 [40.14+]
Post by: Stalhansch on December 19, 2014, 05:16:05 pm
Version 1.7 out.

Fixed a few oversights.

Stoneage pack is being attempted first, but testing stone weapons has proven to be difficult, as stone doesn't seem to show up in the testing arena. A work-around has been to just list the stone material in the inorganic_metal.txt with appropriate values, but it's a hassle. It may be a while yet.
Didn't take as long as anticipated. Prehistoric Pack now available, but requires a lot of testing and thought.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Packs [40.14+] [Armoury v1.7] [Prehistoric v1.0]
Post by: mrmistophelees on January 06, 2015, 11:23:49 pm
Does your mod require a newly generated world in order to benefit from the extra armory?
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Packs [40.14+] [Armoury v1.7] [Prehistoric v1.0]
Post by: Splint on January 06, 2015, 11:34:48 pm
Does your mod require a newly generated world in order to benefit from the extra armory?

It's all new stuff so I would assume so.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Packs [40.14+] [Armoury v1.7] [Neolithic *U1]
Post by: Stalhansch on January 07, 2015, 11:59:29 pm
Huge update for the Prehistoric pack--now called Neolithic. It started off as a small mod but quickly became a monster as I continued working on it. It might even warrant its own thread soon.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Packs [40.14+] [Armoury v1.7] [Neolithic *U1]
Post by: vjmdhzgr on January 11, 2015, 02:02:14 pm
Huge update for the Prehistoric pack--now called Neolithic. It started off as a small mod but quickly became a monster as I continued working on it. It might even warrant its own thread soon.
The humans don't have any entity positions which means you can't make a military, and many other things.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Packs [40.14+] [Armoury v1.7] [Neolithic *U1]
Post by: Ulfgard on April 01, 2015, 03:36:17 pm
Hi, I'm new to Dwarf Fortress in general, and not especially experienced with modding it but I was browsing the mod threads and when I saw what all was included in this pack, I knew I just had to have it.

I do have a question, though. Where, exactly, do I put it? I'm talking specifically about Stal's Armoury 1.7 here, not the Neolithic pack. As the download is a bunch of loose files, I haven't a clue what folder I'm supposed to stick them in.

Thanks in advance for the help.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Packs [40.14+] [Armoury v1.7] [Neolithic *U1]
Post by: Splint on April 01, 2015, 06:30:26 pm
Hi, I'm new to Dwarf Fortress in general, and not especially experienced with modding it but I was browsing the mod threads and when I saw what all was included in this pack, I knew I just had to have it.

I do have a question, though. Where, exactly, do I put it? I'm talking specifically about Stal's Armoury 1.7 here, not the Neolithic pack. As the download is a bunch of loose files, I haven't a clue what folder I'm supposed to stick them in.

Thanks in advance for the help.

First, welcome to the game and forum, second, just drop the loose files in the raws folder and gen a new world.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Packs [40.14+] [Armoury v1.7] [Neolithic *U1]
Post by: Meph on April 01, 2015, 08:06:23 pm
More specifically: DwarfFortress/Raw/Objects folder.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Packs [40.14+] [Armoury v1.7] [Neolithic *U1]
Post by: Ulfgard on April 01, 2015, 11:44:51 pm
First, welcome to the game and forum, second, just drop the loose files in the raws folder and gen a new world.

More specifically: DwarfFortress/Raw/Objects folder.

Excellent. I figured it was something simple, but I was hesitant to drop them in the wrong place and somehow screw everything up. Wouldn't have been the first time I've done something like that.

I very much appreciate the help.  :D
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Packs [40.14+] [Armoury v1.7] [Neolithic *U1]
Post by: Stalhansch on April 05, 2015, 11:06:51 pm
I've had several hardware malfunctions since December, but, I'll be getting back to this soon enough.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Packs [40.14+] [Armoury v1.7] [Neolithic *U1]
Post by: Ulfgard on April 08, 2015, 01:09:40 am
As someone who's no stranger to hardware malfunctions or how frustrating and disheartening they can be (especially if they should cause you to lose any significant advancement in your work), I'm sorry to hear of your troubles and especially grateful that you're keeping at it, Stal.

Best of luck to you.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Packs [40.14+] [Armoury v1.7]
Post by: Stalhansch on April 14, 2015, 06:22:27 am
Due to future plans for expanding on my armoury packs I've decided to move my stone-age mod over to this thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=150104.0).
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Packs [40.14+] [Armoury v1.8]
Post by: Stalhansch on April 14, 2015, 10:43:12 pm
Alright, first update to Armoury in a while. At this point I think Armoury is about done. I've run dry on how else I could improve it without taking it in a different direction entirely. I'll probably be leaving it alone unless someone finds some flaws or provides feedback as to what else I could do to improve it further.

I'll be looking into a new era/culture to start a pack for since the stone-age idea spiraled into something much larger than I originally intended for it to be.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Packs [40.14+] [Armoury v1.8]
Post by: cyberTripping on April 26, 2015, 07:24:49 am
How nicely would this mod play with Jake's Black Powder Firearms, would you know?
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Packs [40.14+] [Armoury v1.8]
Post by: Stalhansch on April 26, 2015, 01:24:39 pm
How nicely would this mod play with Jake's Black Powder Firearms, would you know?

I have no prior experience with the mod, but having looked at its files I can tell you that the guns have incredibly high stats and my armours would do absolutely nothing to protect from them.

Other than that there should be no file conflicts, save for having to manually edit the entity file.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: Stalhansch on November 12, 2016, 01:21:41 pm
Updated to 43.05 with an array of changes accumulated over the last year. Fun times.

Fortress mode hasn't been extensively tested, but I can't imagine there being any major issues present.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: Immortal-D on November 23, 2016, 09:25:58 pm
Awesome! :D  Your armory pack is amongst the handful of of mods that I know I can just drop into my vanilla game without incident.  Amazing how a little variety in armaments adds so much.  Plus in all my time playing, the mod just feels balanced, moreso than any other similar addition.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: PuddingDeity on December 06, 2016, 08:38:50 pm
I've noticed an odd tendency for swords to only cause bruising through gambesons during some arena testing. Originally I thought it might have been because I'd been tweaking the balance a bit to get something closer to my own personal preferences but I loaded up the arena with a totally vanilla install of the mod as well and sure enough, all I seem to be doing against a target wearing a gambeson is bruising them. My testing isn't particularly extensive though, so I can't say exactly what all weapons it applies to or if it applies to all soft garments. I can specifically say it does not apply to tunics though.

To be more specific I tested using a single human using a long steel arming sword that was adept in all skills against a single human wearing a cotton gambeson that was an adept armor user. After a number of strikes (Which I didn't think to count) I saw no damage more significant than bruising. I then conducted a test which was identical except that the unarmed combatant was wearing a cotton tunic and saw consistently severe damage including an instant death blow.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: Splint on December 06, 2016, 09:13:21 pm
I've noticed an odd tendency for swords to only cause bruising through gambesons during some arena testing. Originally I thought it might have been because I'd been tweaking the balance a bit to get something closer to my own personal preferences but I loaded up the arena with a totally vanilla install of the mod as well and sure enough, all I seem to be doing against a target wearing a gambeson is bruising them. My testing isn't particularly extensive though, so I can't say exactly what all weapons it applies to or if it applies to all soft garments. I can specifically say it does not apply to tunics though.

To be more specific I tested using a single human using a long steel arming sword that was adept in all skills against a single human wearing a cotton gambeson that was an adept armor user. After a number of strikes (Which I didn't think to count) I saw no damage more significant than bruising. I then conducted a test which was identical except that the unarmed combatant was wearing a cotton tunic and saw consistently severe damage including an instant death blow.

Gambesons are a sort of semi-rigid cloth armor, and in historic contexts, was likely the armor of choice for the common foot soldier and poorer men-at-arms/mercenaries. It probably needed frequent replacement, as it was made from substantially cheaper cloth, but it was also specifically designed to turn aside blows and absorb some of the impact of incoming weapons (some were also designed to have small lengths of metal included on the outside of the arms to further protect them, as well as places to attach wooden, leather, or metal disks to protect the elbows and shoulders a little better.)

And, since the casualty rates of common footmen from what can be gathered was much lower than would be suspected given thier supposed lack of protection, we can assume it was more than sufficient in most cases, and probably better to use in places experiencing abnormally warm weather (easier to strip down after a patrol compared to a knight's stereotypical plate armor, and  likely breathed a little better than, y'know, metal.)

As such, it seems Stalhansche has modeled its effectiveness pretty well in my book.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack v1.5 [40.xx]
Post by: PuddingDeity on December 07, 2016, 06:04:35 pm
I am aware that Gambesons were a rigid form of armor and thus might have been more effective than I was aware of, I checked through the thread before posting to see if anyone else had pointed out the seemingly strange effectiveness of gambesons given their material.

The gambeson is a slightly bulkier variant of cloth armour. They would only be useful against daggers and the like, and even then you would be better off with leather armour.

However statements such as the one above led me to believe that, accurate or not, it was not intended for gambesons to be so effective in the mod and that perhaps something was missed in testing somewhere. If that's not the case then my previous post may simply be ignored because I was in no way suggesting that the intended balance be changed, I simply thought that this was not a part of the intended balance in the first place and my only intention was to call attention to what I assumed was a bug.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: Grimlocke on December 07, 2016, 07:33:38 pm
Gambesons were fairly decent protection, not actually rigid though. Its layered cloth, sometimes with horsehair in between, and usually made so that it still has flexibility. It will turn aside some cuts, lower velocity projectiles, and sometimes stabs. The padding also helps spread out impact from blunt weapons somewhat.

Wearing only a gambeson for body protection was most common in the high middle ages, where the bulk of armies was made up out of levied peasants, but considerably rarer in the late middle ages when armor was cheaper, and people were richer.

Which was because gambesons and such are not as good as metal armor, be it mail or plate. Gambesons can be cut through with with enough force, and stabbed/shot through even easier. It being invulnerable to swords is not quite right. It is however really kind of a pain to balance properly, as dwarf physics make it either entirely useless against sharp things, or completely invulnerable.

Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: Splint on December 07, 2016, 08:39:46 pm
I called it semi-rigid because pictures I've seen give the impression of it having considerably less flexibility away from the joints. After all, it's not like you're wearing a regular long-sleeved shirt. Plus I'd also wager untreated leather armor would be about as effective: Poorly aimed shots with almost anything would bounce right off it essentially, where a normal shirt in-game would likely leave you with a shallow cut at best and deep gashes at worst. Granted, I base that off of adventure mode showing many attacks as not quite able to land solidly in some manner apart from body shots, presumably because of body positioning.

Course, stabbing through I would imagine as actually being, well, painfully easy. Some cloth can catch and turn a blade pretty easy, but I don't think it can quite catch a stabbing so well... Unless of course Urist meant for that spearpoint to be imbedded in his ribs, in which case it did a stellar job.

That being said, it probably needs way more frequent replacement being made of cloth, since leather armors in my experience tend to wear out quickly as well with frequent fighting, be it against people or critters, which could be seen as a balance to it - you may go through a handful of suits of metal armor every decade or two, and burn through leather and cloth armors on a seasonal basis, regardless of how effective either actually is.

I'd definitely say if it isn't in the mod, some kind of treated leather armor would be a good upgrade from gambesons and basic leather armor, since if memory serves stuff like that was pretty highly valued because it was easier to make than metal stuff but more effective than stuff like gambesons.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: Grimlocke on December 08, 2016, 06:27:01 pm
Not entirely sure what you mean by untreated and treated leather, but regular tanned leather is pretty useless for protection.

The type of 'leather armor' that was actually used was boiled leather, made through a different process than tanning. It was a hard substance, a bit like plastic. It would crack and could be run through but provided some protection from cuts and, due to the rigid form, would mitigate some blunt force. It did not really do anything to cushion blows the way cloth armor did though.
It was made into cuirasses, and possibly limb and head protection (evidence is a bit skimpy on that) and usually worn as an addition to mail armor. Some cultures also made a sort lamellar armor out of it. It seems to have no longer been used around the same time plate armor started to pick up development. I recall there were some indications the boiled leather would easily wear and crack over time which may have made it expensive due to frequent replacement, and would explain why commoners aren't really depicted wearing it.

And from various tests I have read/seen, gambesons did offer some resistance to stabs, especially if its from a broad point or if the thrust does not hit at a dead angle.

Another thing to note is that padded or leather armor that might not always have completely turned a blow, but might still have turned a fatal hit into a survivable one. Medieval medicine was not great, but shallow wounds could be treated whereas organ damage and dismemberment were a lot harder.

For realistic-ish gameplay, you could give the leather armor a higher resistance edged attacks, and cloth some advantage against blunt damage.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: Splint on December 08, 2016, 07:09:13 pm
I was indeed referring to boiled leather. I was referring to treated and untreated as regular leather in the game vs something that was produced to harden it somewhat against attack, as opposed to being used to make clothes. An upgrade from basic leather if you will.

Base leather: barely any protection besides from training accidents (I've found you need at least leather body and head armor to avoid sparring fatalities due to grapples.)

Gambesons: Better than using base leather to make armor, but still not very good. Good chance to completely stop poorly aimed strikes and wood or silver edged weapons. Possibly include fire-hardened wood for elves as possible counter to this type of armor (making it still risky to use a mass levy with simple "hide" and cloth armor against them.)

Upgraded leather: Maybe copper grade in terms of effectiveness; basically useless against  good and proper metals like iron and bronze, but will provide solid protection from wood or silver edged weapons, teeth, some blunt attacks, and claws. Helmets, body armor, and bracers/shin guards. In the absence of any other usable metals and poor goblinite harvests, this would ensure at least a copper level set of armor available, albeit at an investment in leather and whatever is used to upgrade it (tallow, water barrels, whatever.) In effect, a serviceable stopgap until better gear is available.

At least that's how I'd view its effectiveness for game purposes, or more, how I think it could be done, if that makes sense.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: Kyubee on January 19, 2017, 10:05:37 pm
Yo Stal, mind if I copy a few of your weapons for my mod? I'll give credit of course, i'm not a monster, theyre just peices of equipment specifically I wanna give some civs in my mod, but I don't wanna have to overwrite the existing vanilla files to keep my own mod modular.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: Xinael on February 11, 2017, 03:04:57 pm
Was there a version of this mod for 43.03, and are there mirrors? I'm still using it due to not wanting to use the dfhack alpha.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: tovRobi on April 29, 2017, 07:38:23 pm
How can I add weapons and armor for dorfs from some other civilisations? I added them in the entity_default but they cant make them in metalsmith's forge.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: tovRobi on May 12, 2017, 06:24:47 am
Sorry, it was my fault, i dont putted it in the proper folder. But why i dont have all items that i maked acesible for dwarfs? One time i cant make gambesons, other time - salet and pants. Every time some random item is missing.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: Nahere on May 12, 2017, 03:39:08 pm
If you marked them as COMMON, then that means the entity will only sometimes have them. Mark them as FORCED to make sure the entity always has access to them.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: tovRobi on May 15, 2017, 07:19:16 am
Thanks! :)
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: Amostubal on May 19, 2017, 08:41:54 pm
Anyone hear from Stal lately?  Well I was considering updating his gear in the current version of MW.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: Splint on May 19, 2017, 08:53:48 pm
The last time I heard from him was when I asked him about using his tribal-mode stuff for a tribal society based mod, which is presently kinda stuck, since both I and the other guy working on it stopped working on it when the holidays rolled around last year.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: Amostubal on May 20, 2017, 08:40:58 am
The last time I heard from him was when I asked him about using his tribal-mode stuff for a tribal society based mod, which is presently kinda stuck, since both I and the other guy working on it stopped working on it when the holidays rolled around last year.

Well then, I'll considered this abandoned property until he returns, thanks for the info Splint.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: assimilateur on March 18, 2018, 09:59:33 am
Apologies for the necro, but in your experience, is this mod enough to mitigate the effect of the over-the-top force translation pass? I'm talking about the stuff where getting hit with copper slashing weapons by goblins while wearing steel plate is just as likely to pulverize your joints or mangle your limbs as if you were hit with blunt weapons.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: Grimlocke on March 23, 2018, 11:08:37 am
Don't believe so, the wet newspaper joints are an issue with bodypart size and material properties and largely ignore armor.

My own mod addresses this, but does come with a lot of other stuff included. I'm not aware of any standalone patch for joints.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: assimilateur on March 23, 2018, 05:47:14 pm
Gotcha, but would ripping the creature, body and material raws from your mod work for this?
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: Grimlocke on March 25, 2018, 09:42:14 am
Yeah probably, grabbing the material_template changes to body tissues only and the body_default entry for joints should do it. The balance might be wonky, but joints should in any case be less flimsy.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: assimilateur on March 25, 2018, 09:23:05 pm
Sounds good. I'll try that for my next game then.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: TheCspl on December 29, 2018, 04:33:03 pm
I have to mention, cloth armor (gambesons and aketons) has been misrepresented in this mod, real gambesons/aketons were actually pretty good armor, capable of stopping arrows from an english longbow, and you would only be able to cut it if your blade was shaving sharp (sharp enough to cleanly cut facial hair), Though, a good thrust would almost certainly pierce through the armor with ease.  The point is, gambesons/aketons in reality are equal to, possibly even better than leather armor, considering the lower amount of restriction caused by cloth that lets you layer large amounts of it.  Furthermore, leather armor was hardly used in a medieval sense, sure, it was used before then, but there is a reason why a medieval soldier would prefer a gambeson over a suit of leather.  Plus, being almost required for metal armor (otherwise the mail would chafe, or you would have almost no protection from blunt strikes) also helped that preference.  My evidence is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODS7ksbBRuE  , as well as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP4wLMmp-8U , andhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li_yObDjXVQ , and https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_3617500337&feature=iv&src_vid=Li_yObDjXVQ&v=CULmGfvYlso , Great mod though, keep it up. 
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: Grimlocke on January 03, 2019, 10:04:11 am
To be fair, getting soft armor to work properly in Dwarf Fortress is actually somewhat of a pain, DF's simulation of edged weapons cutting through stuff is... questionable.

Also, as far as I know, there hasn't really been much practical testing done on reproductions of actual leather armor / 'cuir bouille' / boiled leather armor. There are no surviving examples that I know of, and artwork and descriptions of the period do mention it but tend not to go into any detail about how it was shaped or produced. As far as we know they served as an early form of rigid armor for the chest and possibly limbs, and would have been used in compliment with mail and cloth.

The question of 'is cloth armor better than leather?' stems from a bit of a misunderstanding in what function leather armor even had, at least in western Europe. Outside of that there were some instances of thick, boiled leather being used in various kinds of lamellar armor coats.

That all said, cloth armor shouldn't be useless, from both a gameplay and historic perspective.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: jecowa on April 01, 2020, 06:16:49 pm
Unofficial update of Stal's Armoury Pack v1.9a for Dwarf Fortress v0.47.04: https://www.mediafire.com/file/shi0zw52tpre39t/StalsArmouryPackv1_9a_4704.zip/file
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: DarthRubik on April 01, 2020, 07:15:43 pm
So I was looking at the changes that this mod makes by comparing it to the 43.05 raws.....and I was wondering if the removal of the  [SYNDROME_DILUTION_FACTOR:INEBRIATION:150] from dwarves was intentional?
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: jecowa on April 01, 2020, 07:36:31 pm
I was wondering that too. I searched through this thread for any information on alcohol dependence but didn't find anything. It looks like that tag was added in v0.42.01, so it seems like there's a good chance it was unintentionally excluded when it was updated. Making dwarves more dependent on alcohol doesn't seem to be relevant to the mod.
Title: Re: Stal's Armoury Pack [43.05] [Armoury v1.9]
Post by: DarthRubik on April 01, 2020, 08:24:00 pm
Ok....well that makes sense....Thanks