Welcome, <name>, you are a <Town/Mafia/Wolf> <role>[ and <role>].
You have the following abilities:
<ability>
[<ability>]
If you have a quicktopic, it goes here
Quick topic doesn't require an accountThank you. This game doesn't seem too complicated...
Is this going to be overwhelmingly complicated(not suited for a beginner) or just difficult?There are generally a large number of vanilla townies in my test-generated setups. I'll be generating the finalized set-up when the game starts, but there aren't many power roles.
Also... does quicktopic require an account, by any chance?
Arg. That comma made me check for invisitext. :P
You got me.
Haha, I guess I won't have to have the pre-game phase to confirm if you're all going to confirm now. :P
Out>.>
oui!
Yes!
Si!
Wonderful!
Well should we just greet each other because I'm fillipk been here a while, you guys?Does that imply you weren't fillipk at one point in time?
Hello Everyone, there's a lot of faces I don't know here. What's your experience with Mafia prior to this game, and do you have any experience with Bay12 mafia?One BM, and the first day of another mafia game that is currently still running here.
Hello Everyone, there's a lot of faces I don't know here. What's your experience with Mafia prior to this game, and do you have any experience with Bay12 mafia?
Hello Everyone, there's a lot of faces I don't know here. What's your experience with Mafia prior to this game, and do you have any experience with Bay12 mafia?One BM, and the first day of another mafia game that is currently still running here.
Everyone: What would you do if 3 people suddenly claimed their roles day one?
Persus13, I have never played mafia before, so there's my experience.
Everyone, Hello!
I Have and I guess I wasn't thinking after all there is a day 1
and we are all innocent villagers right now, except for Varee of course
[redacted, i misread the vote screen.]
Why ya guys voting for me anyway?
[redacted, i misread the vote screen.]
Why ya guys voting for me anyway?
Also, before someone calls me out on it, yes, I randomized that list twice. Fillipk popped up first the first time, and I don't see the point of doubling up on randvotes.
yeah I can vote Roo without a randomized any dayAlso, before someone calls me out on it, yes, I randomized that list twice. Fillipk popped up first the first time, and I don't see the point of doubling up on randvotes.
For some reason I dislike this immensely. Feels like a bit of a cop out. Why did you feel the need to roll on who to vote.
[redacted, i misread the vote screen.]Post editing is not allowed on Bay12 mafia. There is no way to force or enforce this, however.
Why ya guys voting for me anyway?
[redacted, i misread the vote screen.]
Why ya guys voting for me anyway?
Well I guess it is just random voting personally I don't like it because there is more of a chance to get town then mafiaThe reason a D1 lynch is better than no lynch is because it provides more information to use D2 than a no lynch. A No Lynch is sort of a wasted day that brings us closer to a loss.
Greetings everyone, to answer Persus13 I've played bay12 mafia before but that was way back in the year of '12-'13. Otherwise I have played some other forums mafia games, town of Salem (which is mafia lite in my opinion, like a non-alcoholic beer almost) for other things.
persus13-Since your face I do not know as well, I would like to pose your own question back to you. What has your experiences with mafia been? How long have you played?
Fillipk-Why shouldn't we greet each other, as your question implied that there may be alternatives to the greeting?
To answer that question for myself, I've been playing mafia in Bay12 for maybe two years now. I'm known for not being extremely active and getting night killed a lot.
Persus13, I have never played mafia before, so there's my experience.
Everyone, Hello!
You don't actually need to vote in the RVS, just send out semi-random attacks.
@Everyone Reasons why someone is not paying attention or interested in rvs?
I vote ROO! Cuz... I dunno!The Moonlit Shadow, why do you vote Roo without a single reason?
@kil Would it be a fair assumption yo say that you're not paying attention or interested in rvs?I am paying attention, I also just happen to play csgo. Today I have been in a tournament. I also work because I am 22 years of age, so some days I might only squirt one or two posts out. Now that we have that out of the way.
How else would you pick someone out of a crowd who you have no previous experience with? By grading them on how much you like their name? Rolling makes decent sense at this stage of the game.Also, before someone calls me out on it, yes, I randomized that list twice. Fillipk popped up first the first time, and I don't see the point of doubling up on randvotes.
For some reason I dislike this immensely. Feels like a bit of a cop out. Why did you feel the need to roll on who to vote.
Your grammar and attempt at a meme are both atrocious. Not to mention your spelling, in a game where you can't edit posts after you say them, at least proof read them first. Also don't use feelings for what people said, quote them. That is unless of course you are attempting to twist their image into... how did you say it oh right I quoted it; Silly? What if he is silly, how does that make him scum? Being scum doesn't immediately lower your IQ or anything so silly really isn't an indicator in this case.[redacted, i misread the vote screen.]
Why ya guys voting for me anyway?
You are scum it is know, khalesesi. Also how many games of magia have you played I feel like you said iirc one and then said something silly like I'm not a newb and then did something sillier like ask why people are voting you.
He asked you if you were town. And you significantly overreacted. (For your information, only asking for role(not alignment) information is frowned upon.)In the RVS, how is anything an overreaction? I mean, he didn't roll for his vote he just voted on someone who was pressuring him. It's not really an overreaction, so FallacyofUrist are you attempting to defend your scum partner Roo? Pressuring someone to not 'overreact' and vote someone seems a pretty scummy act in itself there my friend, though of course I'd like to know your take on it.
The Moonlit Shadow, I think you're overreacting to Roo a tad bit much.
... calm down, yes-no? You don't actually need to vote in the RVS, just send out semi-random attacks.Hum there's the overreacting word again, and even though you tell him to 'calm down' you later on praise the qualities of a day 1 lynch. Mighty touchy doublestep there.
fillipk, why ya overreacting?[redacted, i misread the vote screen.]
Why ya guys voting for me anyway?Well I guess it is just random voting personally I don't like it because there is more of a chance to get town then mafiaThe reason a D1 lynch is better than no lynch is because it provides more information to use D2 than a no lynch. A No Lynch is sort of a wasted day that brings us closer to a loss.
I'd not do anything really unless two people claimed the same roles. It would be unusual of course but there's no previous information to go on to say whether they are in fact their claimed roles or not.Hello Everyone, there's a lot of faces I don't know here. What's your experience with Mafia prior to this game, and do you have any experience with Bay12 mafia?One BM, and the first day of another mafia game that is currently still running here.
Everyone: What would you do if 3 people suddenly claimed their roles day one?
In the RVS, how is anything an overreaction? I mean, he didn't roll for his vote he just voted on someone who was pressuring him. It's not really an overreaction, so FallacyofUrist are you attempting to defend your scum partner Roo? Pressuring someone to not 'overreact' and vote someone seems a pretty scummy act in itself there my friend, though of course I'd like to know your take on it.As in the Moonlit Shadow immediately voted Roo when he received a question as to alignment. That seems like overreaction to me.
Everyone: What would you do if 3 people suddenly claimed their roles day one?I'd be somewhat skeptical. With the exception certain setups like bastard mods, mass claims on D1 are bad for town.
So you are voting someone for no reason other than they voted you? This is OMGUS (Oh My God/Goodness/Gosh yoU Scum), or voting someone on nothing but the fact that they voted you first. The term used to be applied rather liberally here in B12 until not too long ago, but this is literally the definition of OMGUS.yeah I can vote Roo without a randomized any dayAlso, before someone calls me out on it, yes, I randomized that list twice. Fillipk popped up first the first time, and I don't see the point of doubling up on randvotes.
For some reason I dislike this immensely. Feels like a bit of a cop out. Why did you feel the need to roll on who to vote.
In case you were wondering why it's mostly because you voted against me
@Everyone Reasons why someone is not paying attention or interested in rvs?Some players just really dislike RVS. Usually they tend to state that outright, though.
Why are you concerned about who you are? If you are town, then you know that and thus feel no need to hide. If you are scum, you obviously have a reason to hide who you are, and so feel nervous when pressured about it.He asked me what I was. :(I vote ROO! Cuz... I dunno!The Moonlit Shadow, why do you vote Roo without a single reason?
@Everyone Reasons why someone is not paying attention or interested in rvs?
Hello Everyone, there's a lot of faces I don't know here. What's your experience with Mafia prior to this game, and do you have any experience with Bay12 mafia?One BM, and the first day of another mafia game that is currently still running here.
Everyone: What would you do if 3 people suddenly claimed their roles day one?
Persus13, I have never played mafia before, so there's my experience.
Everyone, Hello!
Hello Everyone, there's a lot of faces I don't know here. What's your experience with Mafia prior to this game, and do you have any experience with Bay12 mafia?
Oh how I miss mafia and the number of stuff that van happen overnight.
Well let get started.
@Persus:I believe we played a few game together before, I haven't played mafia in a while though.
@kil: Persus answered his question in his post, did you miss that?
@Doctor:Hmm it semm that I spot you roll that random list twice, did it pick you or our scum buddy the first time?
Thequestions will come later when I got time. Byes for now:P
Hello Everyone, there's a lot of faces I don't know here. What's your experience with Mafia prior to this game, and do you have any experience with Bay12 mafia?I've been here for about a year and two thirds, and am known for ridiculous bullshit.
4maskwolf: If someone starts behaving like NQT in the last BYOR and votes you, what are you going to do?I don't answer questions involving active games.
Everyone: What would you do if 3 people suddenly claimed their roles day one?Same as above, this is drawn directly from a currently active game.
@Everyone Reasons why someone is not paying attention or interested in rvs?Don't get me started on my irritation with RVS. Suffice it to say that there are MANY reasons someone wouldn't pay as much attention as others might think they should.
Oh how I miss mafia and the number of stuff that van happen overnight.Yes, I did miss his answer. I have now re-read everything twice to make sure I didn't miss anything else.
Well let get started.
@Persus:I believe we played a few game together before, I haven't played mafia in a while though.
@kil: Persus answered his question in his post, did you miss that?
@Doctor:Hmm it semm that I spot you roll that random list twice, did it pick you or our scum buddy the first time?
Thequestions will come later when I got time. Byes for now:P
I'm probably not that skilled yet, but the real question is what will he do under pressure- what happens as a result of my vote. I'll probably take the vote off later."I'll probably take the vote off later."
Teneb, what scum hunting strategy will you use today, and in the long term?
Kilakan, I never said anything. You don't know... (or maybe ur mafia, and you do know)...Perhaps you should check out a few guides to mafia.
Kilakan, I never said anything. You don't know... (or maybe ur mafia, and you do know)...See this implies that if I were mafia, I'd be privy to more things that you have said.... which would mean you are mafia.
I do agree with FallacyofUrist's analysis here.Kilakan, I never said anything. You don't know... (or maybe ur mafia, and you do know)...Perhaps you should check out a few guides to mafia.
I might've just taken off the vote now, but The Moonlit Shadow is bursting around like a rope of firecrackers on a chimpanzee.
The Moonlit Shadow, I'm inclined to believe you're just a noob for mafia rather than scum, but could you stop being so volatile and start a bit of analysis for your vote(or unvote)?
Everyone: Can I get some more activity, sil vous plait?Well hell I'm falling into the same trap as a lot of the other veterans, aren't I?
Wait, there's two opposing scum teams?Yes, that was what I meant. That you implicated yourself of being mafia through poor choice of words.
*FACEPALM*
FATALITY
The Moonlit Shadow loses.
Quote: 'The way I had gathered what you said, is that you were implying that people would have heard you say more things if they were mafia.'
(from kilakan)
But that would require me being mafia...
There are two scum teams- mafia, and werewolves. For all I know you're a mafia goon who attacked roo because you thought he was an opposing werewolf. Or the other way around. This, you see, is why this sort of game is not entirely recommended for new players.And that is why I am voting roo while still pulling up the reasons why I also think Moonlit shadow is scummy. Because there's totally opposing scum teams.
Everyone: Can I get some more activity, sil vous plait?
Roo what side are you on anyway?
Good try at swaying the votecount scum. I like how you don't even attempt to address anything else towards you other than a feeble attempt at getting someone else hung.Roo what side are you on anyway?
my townreads usually.
in an unrelated note.
moonlit shadow.
I don't actually understand if you said what side you were on so my vote standsRoo what side are you on anyway?
my townreads usually.
in an unrelated note.
moonlit shadow.
Good try at swaying the votecount scum. I like how you don't even attempt to address anything else towards you other than a feeble attempt at getting someone else hung.Roo what side are you on anyway?
my townreads usually.
in an unrelated note.
moonlit shadow.
Good try at swaying the votecount scum. I like how you don't even attempt to address anything else towards you other than a feeble attempt at getting someone else hung.Roo what side are you on anyway?
my townreads usually.
in an unrelated note.
moonlit shadow.
What is there to address?
Good try at swaying the votecount scum. I like how you don't even attempt to address anything else towards you other than a feeble attempt at getting someone else hung.Roo what side are you on anyway?
my townreads usually.
in an unrelated note.
moonlit shadow.
What is there to address?
Why don't you explain that vote you dropped on Moonlit Shadow?
Can we please get a little more logic and reason?
So the two main suspects at this point are roo and The Moonlit Shadow. Will everybody please elaborate on their reasons for voting?
Can we please get a little more logic and reason?
So the two main suspects at this point are roo and The Moonlit Shadow. Will everybody please elaborate on their reasons for voting?
Gut is never good enough in mafia! We use the 3 Paragons: "Knowledge!", "Logic/Reason", and "Role Evidence"!Knowledge: none because this is my first bay12 game and its day 1
... do I need to fetch NQT and have him give you a lecture on D1 no lynches?
Personally, I find aggression to be a town-tell. Scum are more concerned with playing it safe and not getting killed, because of their small numbers. Townies are willing to go into aggressive and risky attacks that may invite votes for the hope of finding scum.
Can I get one more person to extend so we have more time to discuss Logic and Reason?
No extend! Too lazy to go back and read the op for how to properly diem vote it, sorry flaport.
It certainly feels like a bandwagon on Moonlit, since one of the major persecutors of him (me) isn't even voting him, and the other (FoU) expressed it as a pressure vote. Otherwise people have kinda just gone 'well okay' and voted him.
Than in your opinion is the bandwagon indicative of who could be scum? Do you think those who jumped on the wagon are more likely to be scum, or less likely? What is your favorite icecream, vanilla, chocolate or furred?It certainly feels like a bandwagon on Moonlit, since one of the major persecutors of him (me) isn't even voting him, and the other (FoU) expressed it as a pressure vote. Otherwise people have kinda just gone 'well okay' and voted him.
Given two scumteams, a bandwagon is pretty much unavoidable every day for the first few days.
righttt... this is going to add so many layers of thought. So much confusion.As long as no one kills me the first night i am very intrigued to see how the two scum teams and the town end up working this out. However I still think night one kills will probably be me and you. Based solely on the fact that there is a minimal amount of scum hunting happening from the others.
The Moonlit Shadow and fillipk, please respond.
Thus, the waiting game. In which we wait for him to return.first off give me more then a half an hour to respond I'm not always on.
Thankfully, we have, literally, days of time to wait(if we have to).
Hm. fillipk, any reasons you have of your own for jumping on the bandwagon?
Thus, the waiting game. In which we wait for him to return.first off give me more then a half an hour to respond I'm not always on.
Thankfully, we have, literally, days of time to wait(if we have to).
Hm. fillipk, any reasons you have of your own for jumping on the bandwagon?
Second I am jumping on the bandwagon because the moonlit shadow is the other suspicious person and an easier one to lynch, later we can always go back and get Roo when we have more information.
Second I am jumping on the bandwagon because the moonlit shadow is the other suspicious person and an easier one to lynch, later we can always go back and get Roo when we have more information.What kind of reason is that?
Sigh this is why I don't always play mafia games because of the day one lynch or no lynch, anyway I've been right more times then wrong so I'm not second guessing myself, if you can find a way to save yourself go ahead but my gut is telling me Roo is scum.What makes you think Roo was scum in the first place? First apparently it was just a OMGUS (self-admitted) vote and then it stuck. If you thought he was bad there should have been something to make you think that way. This is as vague as you can get.
Hello Everyone, there's a lot of faces I don't know here. What's your experience with Mafia prior to this game, and do you have any experience with Bay12 mafia?6 games on bay12. 4 scum games, 2 town. Plus whatever I have now.
Second I am jumping on the bandwagon because the moonlit shadow is the other suspicious person and an easier one to lynch, later we can always go back and get Roo when we have more information.... you have got to be kidding me. That isn't a reason, that's "KILL HIM NOW!" logic. What is even... I don't even...
I hate the first day and want to lynch someone and get over it.I'm going to let anyone who wants to read that be the judge of how scummy(absurd) that is. Have you heard of the concept of a "Hammer" in mafia, fillipk?
we have no infoLie! There is always info! Examine the several pages of text before this post and see if anything feels off about the players' posts!
Looking back now I realized I messed up but that's the same reason why I'm town, as someone pointed out scum tend to stay quiet and avoid drawing attention to themselves for the exact reason of me, they get noticed and could be lynched which is dangerous to them since there are like 2 on each team.
The reason I jumped on the bandwagon was so we had a day 1 lynch and moved on, we have no info besides what people post anyway is just as good as say picking someone who hasn't posted at all, Roo and the Moonlit Shadow got jumped on by me, because Roo voted me, probably randomly so I admit I overreacted, voting Moonlit Shadow was me trying to end the day so we could get more information, I'm not 100% new to mafia which is why I hate the first day and want to lynch someone and get over it.
last ditch effort to save my life? I've seen this situation before where its really hard to appear innocent my only defense is that I'm acting like a stereotypical town in my first bay 12 mafia game.I'd like to say that town don't attempt to save their own lives, instead you should be attempting to hunt down the true scum. That is if you are town anyhow, scum only attempt to save their own lives instead of proactive scum hunting since well... there's no scum to hunt.
aggressive because the town can take casualties, I know someone said this before but anyone who hasn't posted is avoiding drawing attention to themselves so they are more likely to be scum then me, I unvote because most likely, like me they are just a newb, we probably have better chances going after a quiet person because no one's posts made me feel off.Than why previously did you agree with the lynch of moonlit shadow if no one's posts made you feel off?
You want scum hunting? Fine.Looking back now I realized I messed up but that's the same reason why I'm town, as someone pointed out scum tend to stay quiet and avoid drawing attention to themselves for the exact reason of me, they get noticed and could be lynched which is dangerous to them since there are like 2 on each team.
The reason I jumped on the bandwagon was so we had a day 1 lynch and moved on, we have no info besides what people post anyway is just as good as say picking someone who hasn't posted at all, Roo and the Moonlit Shadow got jumped on by me, because Roo voted me, probably randomly so I admit I overreacted, voting Moonlit Shadow was me trying to end the day so we could get more information, I'm not 100% new to mafia which is why I hate the first day and want to lynch someone and get over it.last ditch effort to save my life? I've seen this situation before where its really hard to appear innocent my only defense is that I'm acting like a stereotypical town in my first bay 12 mafia game.I'd like to say that town don't attempt to save their own lives, instead you should be attempting to hunt down the true scum. That is if you are town anyhow, scum only attempt to save their own lives instead of proactive scum hunting since well... there's no scum to hunt.aggressive because the town can take casualties, I know someone said this before but anyone who hasn't posted is avoiding drawing attention to themselves so they are more likely to be scum then me, I unvote because most likely, like me they are just a newb, we probably have better chances going after a quiet person because no one's posts made me feel off.Than why previously did you agree with the lynch of moonlit shadow if no one's posts made you feel off?
Also, I still think roo is scum, especially since now he's clammed up after some pressure was thrown on him. No attempts to scum hunt, rebuke any of the claims against him or otherwise. People might of complained that some of the roo votes were just RVS initially but after my case against him I got no response, he stopped scum hunting, and is now very quite.
However dear god do I wish I could vote multiple times, and fair warning if it comes down to a tie fillipk you are dripping with scum at this point. All that could make your case better in my eyes is some active hunting.
aggressive because the town can take casualties, I know someone said this before but anyone who hasn't posted is avoiding drawing attention to themselves so they are more likely to be scum then me, I unvote because most likely, like me they are just a newb, we probably have better chances going after a quiet person because no one's posts made me feel off.Scum can be aggresive too in their first game so it's not a stellar defence. I tried to lynch someone over their over reaction to a joke. immaterial I believe made a play on the words Alleecat used "shot in the foot" and Allee thought he was accusing her with an inspect. I tried to get Allee based on that.
Dampe and RedMageCole you have not posted a thing I am accusing you both of scum defend yourselvesWow, a more half assed attempt I have not seen.
Looking back now I realized I messed up but that's the same reason why I'm town, as someone pointed out scum tend to stay quiet and avoid drawing attention to themselves for the exact reason of me, they get noticed and could be lynched which is dangerous to them since there are like 2 on each team.Since people have time to think about it avoiding being noticed is much harder to pull off. Lurkers also tend to screw over town so some people have a policy lynch for lurkers. So it's dangerous to lurk as well.
The reason I jumped on the bandwagon was so we had a day 1 lynch and moved on, we have no info besides what people post anyway is just as good as say picking someone who hasn't posted at all, Roo and the Moonlit Shadow got jumped on by me, because Roo voted me, probably randomly so I admit I overreacted, voting Moonlit Shadow was me trying to end the day so we could get more information, I'm not 100% new to mafia which is why I hate the first day and want to lynch someone and get over it.
My personal theory is that its both, but I've got little besides gut instinct and dubious "evidence" to support it.Are you planning to try and build up a case?
Arcvasti:
So far despite being one of the more active players you have mainly hung back to poke or prod at the situation mainly by just answering questions or offering just observations.
My personal theory is that its both, but I've got little besides gut instinct and dubious "evidence" to support it.Are you planning to try and build up a case?
Those with prior experience with Arcvasti
Does the aforementioned usually do this?
Than in your opinion is the bandwagon indicative of who could be scum? Do you think those who jumped on the wagon are more likely to be scum, or less likely? What is your favorite icecream, vanilla, chocolate or furred?It certainly feels like a bandwagon on Moonlit, since one of the major persecutors of him (me) isn't even voting him, and the other (FoU) expressed it as a pressure vote. Otherwise people have kinda just gone 'well okay' and voted him.
Given two scumteams, a bandwagon is pretty much unavoidable every day for the first few days.
Flabort, I'm srry to say this, but you missed some votes/unvotes. Anyway, changing my vote.Well, automated vote-counters are failable. I will for sure count the votes by hand at end-of-day, if not earlier, though.
flabort, can you poke Dampe and RedMageCole? They haven't been active at all iirc. Also, has Teneb done anything?Sure.
I'm still voting for Varee?
Wait, Varee's voting for themself?
Unvote.
Varee, have you just given up? What's going on?
I just realized something...and now everything makes sense
Flailing = accusations = more posts = more mistakes = more evidence = better scum finding.
Of course, you need people like kilakan and FallacyofUrist to get from more posts to the end. But it all starts with flailing!
Roo we are still waiting for a defense
Why aren't you scum?Roo we are still waiting for a defense
Huh? what is their to defend?
how do we know your townWhy aren't you scum?Roo we are still waiting for a defense
Huh? what is their to defend?
Because I'm town...
no idea wtf you guys want me to defend against. arefer me to posts you think I "need" to respond to.
Spoiler: roo (click to show/hide)
This. Why aren't you scum? Because you're town? I don't see that as anything close to a proper answer.Why aren't you scum?
Because I'm town...
TheDarkStar, do you mind giving us your views on the game so far? Particularly all of the interactions between the newer players.
And yes, I'm doing this in an effort to give myself a way into the game, so worry about that vote even less XD
I don't think you gave him a proper question to respond to. :PThis. Why aren't you scum? Because you're town? I don't see that as anything close to a proper answer.Why aren't you scum?
Because I'm town...
I might overanalyze, I remember Fallacy or kulaks saying claiming town doesn't work and shows that you are scum since that's what they do. Also the fact that you aren't using lots of words says you don't want to give stuff away which is also suspicious. So come up with an actual defense please.this also
@kil Would it be a fair assumption yo say that you're not paying attention or interested in rvs?I am paying attention, I also just happen to play csgo. Today I have been in a tournament. I also work because I am 22 years of age, so some days I might only squirt one or two posts out. Now that we have that out of the way.
Roo-You make an assumption about someone who was among the first to respond, and then ask a general question in an attempt to say 'see this dude I made an assumption about is probably bad'. A good way to garner interest from someone instead would be to say Roo you are positively dripping with that which grows in stagnant water.How else would you pick someone out of a crowd who you have no previous experience with? By grading them on how much you like their name? Rolling makes decent sense at this stage of the game.Also, before someone calls me out on it, yes, I randomized that list twice. Fillipk popped up first the first time, and I don't see the point of doubling up on randvotes.
For some reason I dislike this immensely. Feels like a bit of a cop out. Why did you feel the need to roll on who to vote.Your grammar and attempt at a meme are both atrocious. Not to mention your spelling, in a game where you can't edit posts after you say them, at least proof read them first. Also don't use feelings for what people said, quote them. That is unless of course you are attempting to twist their image into... how did you say it oh right I quoted it; Silly? What if he is silly, how does that make him scum? Being scum doesn't immediately lower your IQ or anything so silly really isn't an indicator in this case.[redacted, i misread the vote screen.]
Why ya guys voting for me anyway?
You are scum it is know, khalesesi. Also how many games of magia have you played I feel like you said iirc one and then said something silly like I'm not a newb and then did something sillier like ask why people are voting you.
I am still voting roo because after the posts I made towards him listed above, his only response was.
Roo-Just a reminder here, I'd like some sort of defense from you. I also have an additional question to pose, a number of previous times you have used 'memes' in your general speech. Do you think they aid your image in anyway, and a general explanation as to your thinking when including terms like 'khalessi' and 'feelsbadman' in your speech?
unvoteThis, once the focus had shifted to Moonlit shadow. Followed up with a:
taking off my rvs vote be back in a bit. currently considering between moonlit and doctor.
Vote on said person who's the current center of focus, all the while still ignoring everything directed at him previously.Roo what side are you on anyway?
my townreads usually.
in an unrelated note.
moonlit shadow.
Good try at swaying the votecount scum. I like how you don't even attempt to address anything else towards you other than a feeble attempt at getting someone else hung.Roo what side are you on anyway?
my townreads usually.
in an unrelated note.
moonlit shadow.
What is there to address?
no idea wtf you guys want me to defend against. arefer me to posts you think I "need" to respond to.And, apparently you are incapable of reading the thread for yourself.
@fallacy how was my answer suspicious?
Re-iterated my case above.no idea wtf you guys want me to defend against. arefer me to posts you think I "need" to respond to.Quote from: My case thing earlierSpoiler: roo (click to show/hide)
Yeah, I'm not entirely sure what there is to defend against here.
Kilakan, you're voting for roo at the moment. Why? Would you kindly explain what I'm missing here?
roo, you're still voting for The Moonlight Shadow. Please elaborate your general reasons for doing so.
Roo was active enough initially for us to be suspicious, when we put that suspicion into words he went silent. When he came back from silence he played the 'I don't know what you mean.....' card which is total bullshit. Mostly because anyone who is confused can simply re-read all the posts.TheDarkStar, do you mind giving us your views on the game so far? Particularly all of the interactions between the newer players.
And yes, I'm doing this in an effort to give myself a way into the game, so worry about that vote even less XD
I'll take this post as an excuse for me to get back into the game :P.
roo, TMS, and fillipk keep trying to get each other lynched. Roo hasn't been that active, so he's more unknown than anything else. TMS is really aggressive, and fillipk keeps pressuring roo for a defense and seems like he's trying to get roo lynched. Because TMS is new, it's hard to tell what his aggressiveness means, but that could change if he pushes a successful lynch.
fillipk: After roo, who do you find most suspicious?
PPE:I don't think you gave him a proper question to respond to. :PThis. Why aren't you scum? Because you're town? I don't see that as anything close to a proper answer.Why aren't you scum?
Because I'm town...
It seems that after that first bout of aggression, most of us have kinda slacked off on it... I still don't see anything to suspicious.So what are you going to do about it?
Also, forgot who asked Dampe and the other guy (forgot name) what they would do if they were scum, there's really no way for them to answer that. If what they say happens, they would look extremely guilty, so if they're town, that's an easy lynch for either mafia group. And if they are mafia, they could just as easily avoid it.Why were you so worried about how Dampe and "the other guy" (RedMage (tip: go back and search in these cases, it helps.) might look?
So as the newbie giving people advice, don't answer that question. If you even see the post.
Kilakan: I'm not entirely sure that's a fair assessment. The reason roo voted The Moonlit Shadow was to try to tie up the votecount and not be lynched because they were going to die in a few hours before FallacyofUrist suggested extending the day. That could be a scum move or more simply an "I don't want to die" move. I'm not really disagreeing with you, but using self-preservation as a scumtell strikes me as somewhat silly.Maybe it's changed since I last played, but 'I don't want to die' used to be a pretty big scumtell, since town didn't have that major of a reason to fear death. It was more important to scum hunt with whatever time you have, instead of cowering and trying to tie votes in fear of the noose.
I hypothesize that logic is directly proportional to lack of noobyness.Not the case. Roo is certainly not a newbie, but is still the subforum version of LSP.
I'm going to confess I have no clue who or what LSP is.Lord Slowpoke (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=21412)
Ah you see I've never done Bay12 Madia before so I didn't know however I'm not new to the concept of mafia, or even forum mafia, I've played a couple hidden roles games and a little Town of Salem and I was part of one Mafia game on a different forum.Bay12 Mafia tends to be a little... different, but it mainly depends on whose playing.
Well I guess it is just random voting personally I don't like it because there is more of a chance to get town then mafiaGenerally the idea of random voting is to elicit a reaction from the person receiving the vote which may give a clue to their alignment.
Roo what side are you on anyway?His own probably, roo behaving erratically is fairly normal for him.
Looking back now I realized I messed up but that's the same reason why I'm town, as someone pointed out scum tend to stay quiet and avoid drawing attention to themselves for the exact reason of me, they get noticed and could be lynched which is dangerous to them since there are like 2 on each team.but if you were scum and someone pointed this out to you, wouldn't you try to be more active and draw more attention to you?
I might overanalyze, I remember Fallacy or kulaks saying claiming town doesn't work and shows that you are scum since that's what they do. Also the fact that you aren't using lots of words says you don't want to give stuff away which is also suspicious. So come up with an actual defense please.Scum will claim town, but why would town not claim town as well. Scum want to be seen as town, so you will see scum doing things that townspeople will do.
Good job in that game, btw, while you posted once, it was a well done one. Town of Salem tends to be a bit weird, so I'm not surprised. I hope you stick around.Hello Everyone, there's a lot of faces I don't know here. What's your experience with Mafia prior to this game, and do you have any experience with Bay12 mafia?
I've played Mafia IRL a couple times. My only prior game on Bay12 was Beginner's Mafia LV, in which I replaced a rather inactive player near the end of the game. Oh, and I recently tried an online flash version (Town of Salem, I think), but didn't particularly enjoy it.
Why did you vote fillipk then?Also, before someone calls me out on it, yes, I randomized that list twice. Fillipk popped up first the first time, and I don't see the point of doubling up on randvotes.
For some reason I dislike this immensely. Feels like a bit of a cop out. Why did you feel the need to roll on who to vote.
This isn't from BYOP, its from the BYOR run by MIA wuba. That game is definitely over. I was referring to NQT's "Secret doctrine" stuff.4maskwolf: If someone starts behaving like NQT in the last BYOR and votes you, what are you going to do?I don't answer questions involving active games.
There are two scum teams- mafia, and werewolves. For all I know you're a mafia goon who attacked roo because you thought he was an opposing werewolf. Or the other way around. This, you see, is why this sort of game is not entirely recommended for new players.Generally in two scumteam games scum tend to not care who gets lynched as long as it isn't one of their own and go after the other scumteam at night. At least I think so, don't quote me on this (well you can, but not authoritatively).
Everyone: Can I get some more activity, sil vous plait?
...Sure, because it isn't scummyI hate the first day and want to lynch someone and get over it.I'm going to let anyone who wants to read that be the judge of how scummy(absurd) that is. Have you heard of the concept of a "Hammer" in mafia, fillipk?
Shadow didn't give any further context for this question, why should roo give more context for his answer?This. Why aren't you scum? Because you're town? I don't see that as anything close to a proper answer.Why aren't you scum?
Because I'm town...
What are your feelings on the situation?At this point in reading through the game, I feel that moonlightshadow is being lynched more for not having a handle on the game yet more than anything else. So I'm inclined to think he's town. FofU is reasonable, people need to post more, and if I had voted at this point in time it would be fillipk.
I'd like to say that town don't attempt to save their own lives, instead you should be attempting to hunt down the true scum. That is if you are town anyhow, scum only attempt to save their own lives instead of proactive scum hunting since well... there's no scum to hunt.But there is fake scum for them to hunt.
Town have a perfectly legitimate reason to fear death, it means that they're one step closer to losing. I'll agree with you that tying the lynch should be avoided, but do you think roo was aware he was tying the vote?Kilakan: I'm not entirely sure that's a fair assessment. The reason roo voted The Moonlit Shadow was to try to tie up the votecount and not be lynched because they were going to die in a few hours before FallacyofUrist suggested extending the day. That could be a scum move or more simply an "I don't want to die" move. I'm not really disagreeing with you, but using self-preservation as a scumtell strikes me as somewhat silly.Maybe it's changed since I last played, but 'I don't want to die' used to be a pretty big scumtell, since town didn't have that major of a reason to fear death. It was more important to scum hunt with whatever time you have, instead of cowering and trying to tie votes in fear of the noose.
The reason being here;Town can die at night to mafia, SK, ect.
-Mafia can only die during the day to lynchs.
Town only have the day to make the most of their time, and may very well be cut apart during the night. So fearing a mis-guided lynch is less important than say, finding the proper target with the time you have. Tieing the vote so you can go on to hide/dodge the noose instead of active-hunting is a pretty large scumtell. Especially in a game with no 'majority insta-lynch' so you really have no reason to try and 'tie' a vote.
I just realized something...One problem is more posts doesn't mean more content. I've seen posts with more content in them than fillipk's entire list of posts in this game, on Day 1, no less.
Flailing = accusations = more posts = more mistakes = more evidence = better scum finding.
Of course, you need people like kilakan and FallacyofUrist to get from more posts to the end. But it all starts with flailing!
I vote for not Dampe.You have 3 hours to vote the scum. Will you do so?
I want to live, dammit. ;_;
I'm not a mafioso. This, I promise on my gentleman's honor.
Shadow didn't give any further context for this question, why should roo give more context for his answer?... because he ought to be better than that. Questions can be simple. Answers can also be simple, but for a question like "why are you not scum" a more elaborate answer is better.
Wanting day 1 to be over is not scummy, if anything its a town tell. Day 1 is when we have the least information. Its often only after Day 1 has passed behind us that we are put on a path to root out the scum.
fillipk:Sorry I guess its mostly laziness and trying to quote huge quotes from my phone, I will do this whenever I can.
There a reason why you are unable to quote posts?Ah you see I've never done Bay12 Madia before so I didn't know however I'm not new to the concept of mafia, or even forum mafia, I've played a couple hidden roles games and a little Town of Salem and I was part of one Mafia game on a different forum.Bay12 Mafia tends to be a little... different, but it mainly depends on whose playing.Well I guess it is just random voting personally I don't like it because there is more of a chance to get town then mafiaGenerally the idea of random voting is to elicit a reaction from the person receiving the vote which may give a clue to their alignment.Roo what side are you on anyway?His own probably, roo behaving erratically is fairly normal for him.Looking back now I realized I messed up but that's the same reason why I'm town, as someone pointed out scum tend to stay quiet and avoid drawing attention to themselves for the exact reason of me, they get noticed and could be lynched which is dangerous to them since there are like 2 on each team.but if you were scum and someone pointed this out to you, wouldn't you try to be more active and draw more attention to you?I might overanalyze, I remember Fallacy or kulaks saying claiming town doesn't work and shows that you are scum since that's what they do. Also the fact that you aren't using lots of words says you don't want to give stuff away which is also suspicious. So come up with an actual defense please.Scum will claim town, but why would town not claim town as well. Scum want to be seen as town, so you will see scum doing things that townspeople will do.
If you're going to accuse someone of being scum without any context, they have the right to answer without magically coming up with some context for it.Shadow didn't give any further context for this question, why should roo give more context for his answer?... because he ought to be better than that. Questions can be simple. Answers can also be simple, but for a question like "why are you not scum" a more elaborate answer is better.
Persus13: thank you for mega post. Now here's a question: Wilt thou please target a player who is actually acting scummy instead of just lurking? We don't get much info from a lurker lynch. In fact, lurker lynches are typically regarded as "safer" by scum. Targeting someone who doesn't much... flow, matter, exist, post often... it's a policy lynch instead of a good one.How much info do you think you'll get from a roo lynch? Do you know the difference between lurking and active lurking? Do you think a Dampe lynch is actually feasible, and if not, why do you think I'm voting him then?
well crikey mates I believe we've got our first proper(non-nooby) suspect!
roo, you might very well come out later and give a proper defense. But for now my vote's on you, per the reasons given by kilakan and observations made.
TheDarkStar-Why do you feel Roo deserves to have you step up to his defense? Other than the fact that two people are voting him, and you choose one of those two for your own vote (seems like scum buddying to me but we'll see) what other reasons do you feel Fillipk to be scum? Do you have a full case against him you could outline for us?
Are you saying you didn't see kils initial post of him scumspecting me I find this highly unlikely tbh. because that post is like a simple restatment of it. No defense is needed.I think I saw his initial suspicion post.
Gah. And what would you recommend? A noob? A lurker? No. Once you filter out the noobs and the lurkers:TheDarkStar-Why do you feel Roo deserves to have you step up to his defense? Other than the fact that two people are voting him, and you choose one of those two for your own vote (seems like scum buddying to me but we'll see) what other reasons do you feel Fillipk to be scum? Do you have a full case against him you could outline for us?
I've played several games with roo and I've learned that lynching him doesn't tell anyone very much. He generally has an odd posting style that the town interprets as scummy. As Persus pointed out, a roo lynch wouldn't tell us very much at all.
Persus13: defending roo, are you? Hm hm hm. Part of me thinks you're some sort of scum pulling your scum buddy away from a lynch. Of course, it's too early to tell, but that's what I see.Yes, I'm defending roo. I've played with him before, and he hasn't seemed suspicious or out of the ordinary in terms of his standard posting.
Who are you voting right now?TheDarkStar-Why do you feel Roo deserves to have you step up to his defense? Other than the fact that two people are voting him, and you choose one of those two for your own vote (seems like scum buddying to me but we'll see) what other reasons do you feel Fillipk to be scum? Do you have a full case against him you could outline for us?
I've played several games with roo and I've learned that lynching him doesn't tell anyone very much. He generally has an odd posting style that the town interprets as scummy. As Persus pointed out, a roo lynch wouldn't tell us very much at all.
Are you saying this because you defended against it before? If so could you provide a link?well crikey mates I believe we've got our first proper(non-nooby) suspect!
roo, you might very well come out later and give a proper defense. But for now my vote's on you, per the reasons given by kilakan and observations made.
Are you saying you didn't see kils initial post of him scumspecting me I find this highly unlikely tbh. because that post is like a simple restatment of it. No defense is needed.
Meant to have a response to this in my last post but it got deleted by mistake:Meta patterns? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for the moment, but my vote stays on until he actually defends himself.Persus13: defending roo, are you? Hm hm hm. Part of me thinks you're some sort of scum pulling your scum buddy away from a lynch. Of course, it's too early to tell, but that's what I see.Yes, I'm defending roo. I've played with him before, and he hasn't seemed suspicious or out of the ordinary in terms of his standard posting.
Meant to have a response to this in my last post but it got deleted by mistake:Persus13: defending roo, are you? Hm hm hm. Part of me thinks you're some sort of scum pulling your scum buddy away from a lynch. Of course, it's too early to tell, but that's what I see.Yes, I'm defending roo. I've played with him before, and he hasn't seemed suspicious or out of the ordinary in terms of his standard posting.Who are you voting right now?TheDarkStar-Why do you feel Roo deserves to have you step up to his defense? Other than the fact that two people are voting him, and you choose one of those two for your own vote (seems like scum buddying to me but we'll see) what other reasons do you feel Fillipk to be scum? Do you have a full case against him you could outline for us?
I've played several games with roo and I've learned that lynching him doesn't tell anyone very much. He generally has an odd posting style that the town interprets as scummy. As Persus pointed out, a roo lynch wouldn't tell us very much at all.Are you saying this because you defended against it before? If so could you provide a link?well crikey mates I believe we've got our first proper(non-nooby) suspect!
roo, you might very well come out later and give a proper defense. But for now my vote's on you, per the reasons given by kilakan and observations made.
Are you saying you didn't see kils initial post of him scumspecting me I find this highly unlikely tbh. because that post is like a simple restatment of it. No defense is needed.
Ebwop: And I'm saying I dont need to defend myself. As I have said before.
roo - fillipk, kilakan, FallacyOfUrist, ArcvasitYou were saying?
Ebwop: And I'm saying I dont need to defend myself. As I have said before.You don't need to defend yourself? Why not, good sir?
No because it begged the question if an argument for why to vote someone makes sense now why not then? If you say because of time restraints it would almost be good enough to get away with and thisbis where motive comes into play. If you are town and convinced someone lynch does not bring any new information to the table do you just wait or lynch anyway? or are you scum wanting to lynch.I've already presented alternatives(The Moonlit Shadow and fillipk) but I don't think the lynch of a noob will grant the town a large amount of usable information from Day one. Regardless of alignment, a D1 noob lynch is pretty much a waste simply based on the fact that D1 noobs flail. It would be good if we lynched a scum noob, but it wouldn't provide any good information.
But Fallacy said I looked the scummiest to him which implies he has other people in mind but doesn't want to say doesnt want to present alternatives to my lynch.
So Fallacy when did I start looking scummy to you and for what specific reasons do you find my lynch will help the town?
I'm a 1-shot seer.Oh, now you claim usefulness at the end of the day just before the hammer comes down upon you? Another mark against you. Role claiming in self defense. Saying you're one shot to make it look slightly less scummy that you're claiming to defend yourself. Guess what, it didn't work and you just proved yourself wrong. You say you don't need to defend yourself, then you defend yourself when the reality sinks in.
How would town roo behave differently from this? Would town roo not claim?I'm a 1-shot seer.Oh, now you claim usefulness at the end of the day just before the hammer comes down upon you? Another mark against you. Role claiming in self defense. Saying you're one shot to make it look slightly less scummy that you're claiming to defend yourself. Guess what, it didn't work and you just proved yourself wrong. You say you don't need to defend yourself, then you defend yourself when the reality sinks in.
Anyway, lynch help town why. Let's be simple here: you are acting scummy, and you have done so for a while. Acting scummy means you're more likely scum.
I think you're experienced enough to know that a scum lynch is good for town.
How would town roo behave differently from this? Would town roo not claim?
lmao you should always claim before hammer.You should always claim before hammer. How does that help town? How does it?
@fallacy from what I read you're convinced that I'm scum what defense would be adequate for you to think I'm town and remove your vote? I don't need to defend myself for the simple reason that any defense I provide would simply be poked at and twisted to show just how scum I am.The first actual defense you've given. You don't want to defend yourself because you think I would twist it around no matter what.
You, good sir, are eating vodka soaked sandwiches falling out from the mouth of a giant turtle catapulted from the back of a Warlord of Skyrim thingy.
lmao you should always claim before hammer.
@fallacy from what I read you're convinced that I'm scum what defense would be adequate for you to think I'm town and remove your vote? I don't need to defend myself for the simple reason that any defense I provide would simply be poked at and twisted to show just how scum I am.
Claiming a role before a lynch is something that we tend to ask people on the block to do. Whether or not the roleclaim is convenient is up to you. Roleclaiming before a lynch is standard though. Its more information, which is good, and generally scum don't bother roleclaiming beforehand. Sometimes a role is worth avoiding a lynch on. In later days this also gives us good night information that we wouldn't have gotten otherwise.How would town roo behave differently from this? Would town roo not claim?lmao you should always claim before hammer.You should always claim before hammer. How does that help town? How does it?
Hiddenleafguy: As it looks like you might hang, now's the time to claim cop or jailer.
@Flabort: I don't seem to recall 4maskwolf voting TheDarkStar. I think they were just asking them a question or something
TheDarkStar, do you mind giving us your views on the game so far? Particularly all of the interactions between the newer players.
Dampe:He might not be here for a while(I think he's the game master for a game called The Last Cheeseburger). A prod may or not be necessary, but we'll see.
You show up near enough to the end of the day and give a silly post, Persus votes you and now he's dead. What do you say to that?
Teneb:We hit mafia, which is nice. But we lost two town, and we'll keep losing two town (yes, it's possible for both scum teams to hit each other, but it is unlikely) each night unless we take down the last mafioso, assuming its two. Lynching a wolf is nice, but then we'll still possibly lose two more town players. And I'd rather not rely on luck.
Your current feelings on the game?
Dangit, that's a one-shot seer wasted. (I used it on Kilakan last night.)Why claim this?
Well why are you guys taking RVs so seriously. Many people (including me) barely even posted much and it not lynch Roo or lynch TMS.On second thought... talk about incredible scumtells.
@Doctor. So about your theory on me being scum, do you still believe that after the day's discussion? Also why didn't you put a second vote on someone during RVS and believe in your randomiser?
Varee
PS am just pointing out there is other option.
... honestly, I shouldn't have. I thought it might help the town at the time of posting. Maybe. Hm.Dangit, that's a one-shot seer wasted. (I used it on Kilakan last night.)Why claim this?
Well why are you guys taking RVs so seriously. Many people (including me) barely even posted much and it not lynch Roo or lynch TMS.What was your intention with this post?
@Doctor. So about your theory on me being scum, do you still believe that after the day's discussion? Also why didn't you put a second vote on someone during RVS and believe in your randomiser?
Varee
PS am just pointing out there is other option.
I vote for not Dampe.Why didn't you use your vote?
I want to live, dammit. ;_;
I'm not a mafioso. This, I promise on my gentleman's honor.
Could be many reasons which he didn't mention. Like how no one really seemed suspicious due to things contradicting the evidence. Wasn't convinced Roo was probably gonna be scum, but I guess we got lucky that time.So the usual thinking is that a town player's primary weapon is their vote. I'm not saying everyone who didn't vote is scum, but it is pretty ineffective play. Do you intend to use your vote this day?
Only if someone seems suspicious enough.What counts as suspicious enough?
Alright, roo was actually Mafia. This is welcome, but not unexpected. Therefore, those who were defending them are potential suspects. Or possibly those who jumped on the bandwagon last once it was clear roo was going to die. This gives us zero leads as far as the other scum faction goes, but perhaps that's for the best. Wiping out one scum faction basically doubles how much time we have to find the other one since we only have to worry about one nightkill.This makes sense but the werewolves could just be framing FoU.
I'm also going to point out that Persus13, one of roo's defenders, was the target of the Werewolf nightkill. This implies that, following the reasoning above, the Werewolves are gunning for Mafia instead of Town like their Mafia rivals are. FallacyofUrist, as the sole surviving scum-hunter from the first day, is therefore a suspected Werewolf. I fully expected them and Kilakan to be the first nightkills because of the intensity and usefulness of their scumhunting. But Persus13 gets killed instead, either because they're prioritising Mafia deaths over Town deaths or because FallacyofUrist is one of them. Or maybe both. Mind you, I'm not outright accusing FallacyofUrist right now, but I believe they're currently one of the better suspects, at least until we finish fully analyzing roo's lynch and the events leading up to it for potential other Mafia either bussing or defending him.
You defended roo when he went silent.Thus, the waiting game. In which we wait for him to return.first off give me more then a half an hour to respond I'm not always on.
Thankfully, we have, literally, days of time to wait(if we have to).
Hm. fillipk, any reasons you have of your own for jumping on the bandwagon?
Second I am jumping on the bandwagon because the moonlit shadow is the other suspicious person and an easier one to lynch, later we can always go back and get Roo when we have more information.
Yeah, if I had to vote now, based on the information I currently possess, I'd lynch The Moonlit Shadow. Roo is kinda suspicious too, but not as overtly or immediately suspicious. Not sure whether ["They" being The Moonlit Shadow, not Roo]their suspiciousness is from being new to Mafia or being a scum. My personal theory is that its both, but I've got little besides gut instinct and dubious "evidence" to support it.
Kilakan: I'm not entirely sure that's a fair assessment. The reason roo voted The Moonlit Shadow was to try to tie up the votecount and not be lynched because they were going to die in a few hours before FallacyofUrist suggested extending the day. That could be a scum move or more simply an "I don't want to die" move. I'm not really disagreeing with you, but using self-preservation as a scumtell strikes me as somewhat silly.Your reasons here for voting roo are reasonable but they leave you a way out. If his defence was good enough you would pull your vote off you made that very clear. So you could safely pull your vote off of him.
That said:
Unvote fillipk
Honestly, I'm going to invoke Hanlon's Razor here. I find it more likely that they're just new to the game and kinda defensive then that they're actually scum.
Voting roo
If putting roo in a life-or-death situation will evoke more evidence one way or another, I'm applying a pressure vote to them to make them defend themselves again. If their defense is inadequate, I'll keep it on. Plus it feels like a fairer lynch then fillipk or The Moonlit Shadow because they're both new and thus have that as an excuse/justification. roo, however, doesn't have that going for him.
General reminder, we have two opposing scum teams here both intent on annihilating the other. For those scum, scumhunting could become an excellent strategy since they have the advantage of knowing who's on their side and using the town to lynch their competitors both garners them trust and eliminates dangerous opposition. For those of us used to one-scum-faction mafia or for those new to the game, this might be an important concept.
Arcvasti:
A man/woman/thing of many observations but few questions.
Even as you voted roo you defended him and you did so beforehand.You defended roo when he went silent.Thus, the waiting game. In which we wait for him to return.first off give me more then a half an hour to respond I'm not always on.
Thankfully, we have, literally, days of time to wait(if we have to).
Hm. fillipk, any reasons you have of your own for jumping on the bandwagon?
Second I am jumping on the bandwagon because the moonlit shadow is the other suspicious person and an easier one to lynch, later we can always go back and get Roo when we have more information.
Yeah, if I had to vote now, based on the information I currently possess, I'd lynch The Moonlit Shadow. Roo is kinda suspicious too, but not as overtly or immediately suspicious. Not sure whether ["They" being The Moonlit Shadow, not Roo]their suspiciousness is from being new to Mafia or being a scum. My personal theory is that its both, but I've got little besides gut instinct and dubious "evidence" to support it.
Kilakan: I'm not entirely sure that's a fair assessment. The reason roo voted The Moonlit Shadow was to try to tie up the votecount and not be lynched because they were going to die in a few hours before FallacyofUrist suggested extending the day. That could be a scum move or more simply an "I don't want to die" move. I'm not really disagreeing with you, but using self-preservation as a scumtell strikes me as somewhat silly.Your reasons here for voting roo are reasonable but they leave you a way out. If his defence was good enough you would pull your vote off you made that very clear. So you could safely pull your vote off of him.
That said:
Unvote fillipk
Honestly, I'm going to invoke Hanlon's Razor here. I find it more likely that they're just new to the game and kinda defensive then that they're actually scum.
Voting roo
If putting roo in a life-or-death situation will evoke more evidence one way or another, I'm applying a pressure vote to them to make them defend themselves again. If their defense is inadequate, I'll keep it on. Plus it feels like a fairer lynch then fillipk or The Moonlit Shadow because they're both new and thus have that as an excuse/justification. roo, however, doesn't have that going for him.
General reminder, we have two opposing scum teams here both intent on annihilating the other. For those scum, scumhunting could become an excellent strategy since they have the advantage of knowing who's on their side and using the town to lynch their competitors both garners them trust and eliminates dangerous opposition. For those of us used to one-scum-faction mafia or for those new to the game, this might be an important concept.
And then there is a subtle attack on kilakan and fallacy at the bottom. It's an attack by implication and while it could very well have been town-sided reminder, it encouraged doubt in our minds about roo's primary accusers.
Also how's your analysis of D1 going?
People have made excellent points about why FoU or Arcavasti are scum, I feel we need to put someone under pressure.sooo
Arcvasti
And yes, I WAS attacking Kilakan/Fallacy. Now that Kilakan's dead, the thread's been moving quite a bit less then before. Between them and Fallacy, they were doing all the scumhunting while assuring all the newbies that scumhunting was a towntell and that they were thus above suspicion. Kilakan has been exonerated post-humously, but I voiced my reinforced suspicions against Fallacy a few posts above this one.It's not that I argue with the logic here. It seems quite sound, however the way you presented it is what I take issue with. It was a subtle attack, which I find is the more scummy part. You do not outright say that Fallacy or Killakan could be scum but rather imply that they are and leave others to dig up something that could be used to lynch them. It reminds me of what I when I'm scum.
-snip-Again, please don't use red for anything other than voting.
It seems that a lot of you just put a vote on Roo to make him defend himself. However, it... kinda worked? The problem being that Roo's defense instead implicated him. He refuses to make a defense in the beginning, and when you all vote him to get some kind of defense out, his defense seems to implicate himself. Actually, yeah, those extra pressure votes did work, as it got him to implicate himself.Is this some sort of defense for Arcvasti or are you just commentating on what happened? If you were just commentating where were you going with this bit?
-snip-Again, please don't use red for anything other than voting.
As I may have mentioned, I dislike acting without considering the evidence we have at hand. What you term "Speculation" is the only evidence we HAVE in Mafia, besides that garnered through information roles. I am attempting to document evidence so as to make it more accessible to those not bothering to reread the thread to analyze voting and posting patterns. I also include personal theories under the same basis: Putting more information on the table. Including personal theories in this mix is doubly important because if I die, everything in my head will no longer be accessible to the rest of the town, potentially losing us access to crucial data. Putting down my thoughts now is especially important because they will obtain new significance after my hypothetical demise. If I were posthumously exonerated from being scum, then theories that seemed scummy earlier will acquire renewed usefulness. Right now, everything I say is tainted with the shadow of doubt because I am currently under suspicion. After my death however, everyone would KNOW that all I said was to aid the town.Moonlit:Arcvasti, I think we better see a defense from you. 4 people have voted you, so no defense means your getting lynched. No defense, is also exactly what Roo did. And we all know who he was, don't we...
I only see three people voting me and one of them[Fillipk's] is explicitly stated to be a pressure vote based on preliminary evidence. I do see your point, however.
Alright, I will now begin defending myself.Either way, all your speculation on night actions is just that: speculation. Unless you have some hard data from stuff such as abilities, you are just spreading WIFOM. How about you start asking questions to the living, and focus on scumhunting, rather than wild speculation that will not result in anything. Because I see a lot of you saying Dampe is probably a wolf, yet you do nothing to confirm it. No questions towards them, no votes.
Arcvasti, nice attempt at feigning activity with long posts filled with nothing but speculation, scum.
This strikes me as highly suspicious, like you are hiding behind the cover as a newbie, and even if you are everyone has a strategy, newbie strategies are just not as good.My reasoning is basically that it seemed suspicious. Remember, as a newbie, I have no other strategies.Why are you concerned about who you are? If you are town, then you know that and thus feel no need to hide. If you are scum, you obviously have a reason to hide who you are, and so feel nervous when pressured about it.He asked me what I was. :(I vote ROO! Cuz... I dunno!The Moonlit Shadow, why do you vote Roo without a single reason?
FoU: Do you think you can tell apart newbie flailing from scum flailing? If so, how? If not, why did you vote for someone who is very much new despite that?
So, if we were both scum, we would know it. So why would he draw attention to me, or himself, like that? And why would I vote for him, knowing that my vote would make the majority against him? Unless we discussed it in the quicktopic, but I wouldn't trust that to a newbie.Again hiding behind the newbie, also there are two scum teams
If he is scum, he would know if I'm town. So what's his purpose in asking me? And how am I supposed to respond without placing suspicion on me?Again two scum teams
If he's town, and I'm town, then he would have a perfectly good reason to ask me, and I would have a perfectly good reason to suspect him.Either of you could be scum and pretending town, or on different scum teams
Again the noob factor, at least try and stop saying you are a noob we know that, its getting kind of suspicious.Moonlit ShadowUh. Highly suspicious, with at least one piece of logical evidence, not just interpreting the scumminess of their posts, which, as a noob, I can't do very well.Only if someone seems suspicious enough.What counts as suspicious enough?
~snip~Yes I did, but when someone doesn't know something they can make mistakes, assuming you were on the only scum team is what I think happened and it is why I think you are scum, most likely a werewolf but I've seen mafia vote other mafia when it becomes convent to avoid suspiscion. Your doing exactly what you need to right now to show up as town show up as town
Yes I realize reasoning is from before they figured out about two scum teams but that is also why I believe they are scum, and made a misstep when they thought there was only one scum team.
Arcvasti Just saying, please don't put your words in someone's quote. Sorry if that was already there, but from the context, it seems you put it in. I think you probably forgot a '[\quote]' there, but it seems like I said those words. (It's the bolded yellow).
Arcvasti:
The fact that 8,9,10 occurred together is something that causes discomfort.
Plus it's paired with your vote and defense of roo. So it kinda looks like this to me when you boil it down.
- Using self-preservation is silly as a scum tell.
- I'll take my vote off fillipk and pressure roo to come in to defend himself.
- By the way Kilakan and Fallacy could be scum.
On D1 you were the last to vote each player be it fillipk or roo. Cautious or making sure popular opinion is on side could be either. Given that you've gone after someone now leaning more towards cautious. But still it took most of the in game day to get there. Nerves?
New one here, one of your accusations seems a bit hypocritical. Albeit Fallacy isn't as new. I didn't find much weight in it to begin with.
Day is over in about 4 hours
I can't tell if I don't have a role PM or if I just suck with technology.No, the mod sucks with technology. Icy Tea is probably wondering what the hell that is doing in his PM box, sorry Tea.
1. Tea hasn't had a chance to post and comment so I think he should.Also we need a lynch and it's right now it's 2v2
2. I think Arcvasti should have a better chance to not get lynched because I don't find him suspicious
3. Moonlit Shadow never responded to extend the day and fall for a subtle/not so subtle trap which was the main reason I held off
Guess I'd better get back to it, though getting a 4maskTea avatar was a fun break.
Tea: Do you believe that Fillipk has a valid case against The Moonlit Shadow or Comrade Shamrock has a valid case against me? What is your read on all the roleclaims that have happened so far[Including my recent one]? Scummy? Not scummy? Weird as all hell?I have a pending mod question that will impact my view on Moonlit. But as for fillip's stance on Moonlit, I'm actually kinda impressed w/ the nuance he's had on the past page or so with implying/trying to test a connection between you two. (I can elaborate on that more after Moon posts.) I think I probably giggled when I read fillip first stated that he thinks Moon is scum for not knowing there were multiple scumteams. I guess I don't think it's impossible that a newbie werewolf, realizing that there were two scumteams, would pretend to think of the game in terms of one scumteam for as long as possible, and then when called on it, refer to them as "two mafias" for a while to try to distance themselves from being a werewolf and promote mafia hate? That particular conclusion is very unlikely compared to some I've drawn about Moon and their confusion surrounding game theory/the setup, but some of that I shouldn't go into right now, and some I was planning to read back on. Uh, I find Moon's referral to being new self-conscious but not really an alignment tell.
Flabort:He may need replacing, I'll make one more check near the end of the day before officially putting him (or anyone else) up for replacement.
Is Dampe still playing or do he's need a replace too? Because I'd be happy to take on the role of 2 players. :D
@notquitethere - I kinda skimmed the recent BM and it seems like you're a lot more quiet here than there. I guess I don't have a specific question but I'd like to hear comments on quieter players and/or just on anything that isn't re:Moonlit?Been busy moving house this week. Will try to post a bit more though... Do you intend to vote before the end of the day?
The only thing that bothers me about it is that if I were a 1-shot seer in his position and saw roo flip, I would have felt like a kid on Christmas, because while there can be multiple full cops, full trackers, etc., there can't be multiple 1-shots of a particular power role, so from his POV roo was confirmed scum from that claim.
TeaIdeally yes? Kinda depends how far I get with my analysis and how much I feel like my vote will matter.@notquitethere - I kinda skimmed the recent BM and it seems like you're a lot more quiet here than there. I guess I don't have a specific question but I'd like to hear comments on quieter players and/or just on anything that isn't re:Moonlit?Been busy moving house this week. Will try to post a bit more though... Do you intend to vote before the end of the day?
@Moonlit
- In post #81 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=151847.msg6457901#msg6457901), you voted roo (who is confirmed scum) because "I dunno!" You later voted fillip it seemed like primarily because you trusted FallacyofUrist, who had just switched his vote from you to fillip. Your suspicions about roo in the beginning-middle of the day turned out to be right. Why, then, are you so much more cautious with your vote Today and your willingness to declare people scum?
- On Day 1, you mentioned that you think it'd benefit the town to be less divided and form kind of a bloc of people who seem town. How do you intend to move forward with this (if you still think it's good play)?
- This is probably a weird question, but humor me. The OP says "No PMing other players; the scum teams will get a mafia-chat on Quicktopic, and the dead will also get a quicktopic." How have you been interpreting that as working (when can they talk and how would it impact their strategy)?
- You seem concerned with finding logical evidence to implicate people as scum. What can you come up with (or quote from someone else, failing that) that you'd think of as logical evidence?
- Now that some time is passed, could you try to explain in more depth why it made you so uncomfortable that roo asked you why you were town (which was somewhere around the post I linked)?
TeaMy first point was that I would like to know why you seem afraid to vote with weak reasons in light of how the game has gone thus far. I don't know if that's suspicious or not because I don't know the reason behind it, but you don't need to preemptively admit that it can be seen as suspicious? My point with the quicktopic is that you started talking pretty early on about how scum could be plotting in their quicktopic, I think before anyone else had mentioned the possibility, and I guess I was surprised with how far you'd taken that thought process considering you're new. I had it mod confirmed that scum can daytalk at any time (which I'm not sure is objectively clear from the first post), which means that a reason you could've been thinking about the possibility of scum talk is because you were taking part in it. I don't understand why you're still ignoring the fourth point.
I guess you could call it suspicious. It was basically a random vote... though I did not know it was a good idea to do that at the time. And no, that's not another reference to my new-ness, filipk.
And... for the quicktopic question:
I think it really depends on whose scum. I mean... not knowing people that well hurts my predictions a good bit.
I don't intend to move forward with my other thingy, as 1. mostly forgot about it, and 2) doesn't seem like it'll happen.
I agree with (most of) you that Arcvasti does not seem like scum. I've already quoted the post I'm referring to above this (in the same post). If TheDarkStar turns out to be Mafia, which isn't too likely, Arcvasti's definitely lying. I almost think we should lynch TheDarkStar because of this. Thing is, if Arcvasti's scum, he chose well. TheDarkStar doesn't seem to be dying soon, so we'll have no proof from that.This would probably be a poor play because DarkStar could be not mafia and Arcvasti could still be a member of either scum faction.
@Arcvasti
- In your post #178 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=151847.msg6462555#msg6462555), you made case files of sorts on the 3 players that were the most viable lynches at the time. You voiced that you had some concerns that Fallacy and kila could be devious scum. Is there a reason you didn't try to look back at their posts and question any of their points at the time, as you're now doing with Fallacy?
- Can you clarify why it's a scumtell for Fallacy to voice suspicions of a lot of different people?
- How come you didn't ask me about what I thought of your case on Fallacy when you were asking me about fillip's and Comrade's?
- You've gone into a lot of depth analyzing the nightkills based on who died yesterday. I was curious if you had formed any opinions based on people's behavior surrounding the dead players (with confirmed alignments) that are less based around the kills? (Who is likely to be scum with roo, who isn't, what useful points did the dead town raise, etc.)?
Everyone
I like how Comrade Shamrock points out that he could plausibly be scum. Also, notice how he has no defense that he isn't scum.
I'm pretty overloaded with schoolwork, but I'm still in on this.i feel like you are super busy but that seems kind of scummy, don't know too much about prior experience though
Unless I state otherwise, just add my vote to whoever has the most votes to be lynched in a day.
@Mod- We really need a vote count and an accurate deadline timer. It's been days.Mere ho- ...oh, I see. Time flies when you're playing on LAN, eh? :P
I remember Fallacy or kulaks saying claiming town doesn't work and shows that you are scum since that's what they do. Also the fact that you aren't using lots of words says you don't want to give stuff away which is also suspicious. So come up with an actual defense please.
Unless I state otherwise, just add my vote to whoever has the most votes to be lynched in a day.
I thought Arcv was a pairing cause of a gut feeling based on their posts but now I'm leaning towards a Moon Dampe pairing seeing how Moon is defending a lurker, not ignoring it and trying to find a more scummy target.
With five players not voting, you can be sure that scum are hiding among the lurkers, waiting for an easy mislynch. Or at least, in an ordinary game it'd look like that. With two scum teams, scum-allowed mislynches can still hit the opposing team.
Not in this case though. The only person who's not on Moonlit and is voting at the end of today, is indeed Moonlit. If they're scum, where's their buddy in all this? On a reread, they're coming across more flailing new-player than someone who's actively being coached.
There's being busy, and then there's actively willing mislynches:Unless I state otherwise, just add my vote to whoever has the most votes to be lynched in a day.
I'd be happier hitting Dampe today.
Everyoneis odd because you're assuming that Comrade is scum because he hasn't proven that he's not. Why? Because this can essentially be applied to everyone unless they are dead. Additionally, you aren't doing much scumhunting at all, even though you're voting.
I like how Comrade Shamrock points out that he could plausibly be scum. Also, notice how he has no defense that he isn't scum.
@DarkStar - Thoughts on players besides Moonlit and fillip?
fillipk:[quote author TMS]I defend Dampe because I don't think he's worth it right now. Maybe later.. Actually... This would be a good time to get him, as I don't really think we have any other suspects... Besides me.[/quote] They admitted to it and only realized that they were the other main suspect halfway through the post got me thinking they are on the same team but its speculation.I thought Arcv was a pairing cause of a gut feeling based on their posts but now I'm leaning towards a Moon Dampe pairing seeing how Moon is defending a lurker, not ignoring it and trying to find a more scummy target.
Explain this a bit more. While I do see that Moonlit is being very defensive, I don't see him specifically defending Dampe very much.
~snip~
I'm pretty overloaded with schoolwork, but I'm still in on this.this so Dampe
Unless I state otherwise, just add my vote to whoever has the most votes to be lynched in a day.
to be honest I would also rather get dampe forJust going to point out Dampe is also new to Mafia as a game and hasn't had as much experience with it. I don't find that nearly as damning as The Moonlit Shadow's earlier ham-handed attempt at shifting suspicion to their persecutor.I'm pretty overloaded with schoolwork, but I'm still in on this.this so Dampe
Unless I state otherwise, just add my vote to whoever has the most votes to be lynched in a day.
I didn't know they were new and they probably thought the same thing as me since they did virtually the same thing. So again unvote Moonlit Shadowto be honest I would also rather get dampe forJust going to point out Dampe is also new to Mafia as a game and hasn't had as much experience with it. I don't find that nearly as damning as The Moonlit Shadow's earlier ham-handed attempt at shifting suspicion to their persecutor.I'm pretty overloaded with schoolwork, but I'm still in on this.this so Dampe
Unless I state otherwise, just add my vote to whoever has the most votes to be lynched in a day.
I didn't know they were new and they probably thought the same thing as me since they did virtually the same thing. So again unvote Moonlit ShadowPSA: One method of unvoting is saying unvote in red, followed by the name of the person you are unvoting. So if I was removing my flabort vote, I could go unvote flabort instead of just unvote. I'm saying this because while the forum code and context suggests you are unvoting Dampe and voting Moonlit Shadow, your post looks like you are unvoting Moonlit Shadow.
Moonlit Shadow was lynched yesterday, not DampeTypo. :P
I'm pretty overloaded with schoolwork, but I'm still in on this.
Unless I state otherwise, just add
When does the day end?Edited in already. Tuesday afternoon, unless there is an extension.
Teneb
I disliked Teneb's first post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?t...52#msg6458652). I feel like the explanation of OMGUS when no one asked for one is more there to look like he's being helpful than anything. He's not using it to ask a more than surface level question or to present any of his own thoughts. I also dislike his question toward FallacyofUrist, though I am having trouble articulating why - the tone of it strikes me as "discrediting" rather than "curious," is the best way that I can. He later asks Moonlit what Moonlit's going to do about their trouble finding people suspicious, and then spends a couple of posts insulting roo. That's the sum of his D1 efforts.
His D2 post in which he asks Arcv and FoU a question each and generally posts that he's concerned about losing two townies per night is okay. The vote on Arcv for the in-depth nightkill spec rather than actually looking @ people's behavior is sort of boring, but I'd guess he finds Arcv scummy regardless of his own alignment. He does seem pretty happy to skate though the game and leave it up to everyone else to put actual opinions out there, in general.
If Arcvasti is truly a full Cop (regardless of whether Town Cop or "Town" Defector Cop), there are definitely 2 more mafia left, since that'd be TTTTCCI at least, which is Power Tier 2, which is 3 maf. So let's not get complacent.You forget there is a doctor based on what Arcvasti said
Is it bad that I kinda think Dampe is town because I feel like the mod would be less likely to fuck up the names if Dampe was a different alignment from Moonlit??
Teneb
I disliked Teneb's first post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?t...52#msg6458652). I feel like the explanation of OMGUS when no one asked for one is more there to look like he's being helpful than anything. He's not using it to ask a more than surface level question or to present any of his own thoughts. I also dislike his question toward FallacyofUrist, though I am having trouble articulating why - the tone of it strikes me as "discrediting" rather than "curious," is the best way that I can. He later asks Moonlit what Moonlit's going to do about their trouble finding people suspicious, and then spends a couple of posts insulting roo. That's the sum of his D1 efforts.
His D2 post in which he asks Arcv and FoU a question each and generally posts that he's concerned about losing two townies per night is okay. The vote on Arcv for the in-depth nightkill spec rather than actually looking @ people's behavior is sort of boring, but I'd guess he finds Arcv scummy regardless of his own alignment. He does seem pretty happy to skate though the game and leave it up to everyone else to put actual opinions out there, in general.
For the record, I Investigated Teneb overnight following a similar chain of logic and they're Not Mafia. Doesn't rule out them being a Werewolf, but that's something, at least.
Flabort, was Comrade Shamrock killed by Werewolves or Mafia? Its not quite clear from the flavour text. If they were killed by Werewolves, thank you whoever the Docter was. I totally thought I was dead last night.
I need to sleep now, but I'll have more contributions later.
If Arcvasti is truly a full Cop (regardless of whether Town Cop or "Town" Defector Cop), there are definitely 2 more mafia left, since that'd be TTTTCCI at least, which is Power Tier 2, which is 3 maf. So let's not get complacent.You forget there is a doctor based on what Arcvasti saidI too considered the possibility that a Doctor saved Arcvasti from the mafia kill, but we don't yet have mod confirmation about which faction killed Commodore, that's not the only possible explanation, speculation about extra letters doesn't actually affect my point that we probably have 2 more mafia, etc. I have a lot of setup notes that I keep to myself, basically.
4maskwolf was my IC in the only other game I've played on here - he's experienced enough that I can't imagine that he'd be afraid of a single pressure vote. If you look at his own pressure vote on DarkStar on Day 1 (that they're not a big deal and kind of a tool to get back into a game that you're feeling lazy about), that should be telling about his attitude about them.
You say that "I asked [you] who I thought was mafia, maybe to get a read on what the town thinks." It bothered me while I was trying to catch up and get a sense of the game yesterday that everybody seemed to really want to lynch people who seemed like they weren't likely to be scum with roo. In setups without multiple scumteams (which is every kind of mafia I have played before), interactions with dead scum are a great way to find scum. DarkStar and Fallacy seem the most questionable to me based on people who have actually posted enough on Day 1 that I can get any read on that whatsoever.
I don't really have clear reads that I can list out. Most of the people left have made like five or less posts. It's hard to know how much stock to put into Arcv's innocent results given that Tier 1 and Tier 3 allows for the existence of investigation-immune mafia, and then there's also "self-tailors" (though this is relatively unlikely.) Once Fallacy shows up and elaborates on the circumstances surrounding his claim and answers my questions, I think I can get a solid read on him if he reappears. Of the experienced lurkers [DarkStar, notquitethere, Teneb], I still think Teneb is scummiest in spite of Arcv's result. I'm not townreading DarkStar for reasons I explained yesterday, and I think notquitethere's behavior is pretty null as well, so I wouldn't mind pressure there. I thought Arcvasti was town without even accounting for the claim and I don't see much reason to doubt it. Doctor apparently forgot he was in the game, so I'm hopeful that he'll come back and be the one newbie lurker that actually posts content. I have dumb speculations about whether he'd forget he was in the game if he had like a scumchat and nightkill to work out, and such. Varee is ever so slightly townier than Dampe based on Varee trying his weird reaction test and being unabashedly lazy (not that I wish he wasn't.)
I too considered the possibility that a Doctor saved Arcvasti from the mafia kill, but we don't yet have mod confirmation about which faction killed Commodore, that's not the only possible explanation, speculation about extra letters doesn't actually affect my point that we probably have 2 more mafia, etc. I have a lot of setup notes that I keep to myself, basically.If Arcvasti is truly a full Cop (regardless of whether Town Cop or "Town" Defector Cop), there are definitely 2 more mafia left, since that'd be TTTTCCI at least, which is Power Tier 2, which is 3 maf. So let's not get complacent.You forget there is a doctor based on what Arcvasti said
Where I rank everyone, feel free to ask for more details
Most Scummy
Roo- Dead confirmed scum
Dampe- A new person and he was voted by Persus13 and the persus dies, I think he's a werewolf, maybe with Tea since 4maskwolf was less active during the second night
Teneb- like tea said his first day 2 post makes him seem like a werewolf, or werewolf supporter here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=151847.msg6473006#msg6473006) and his second post attacks Arcvasti for speculation
Varee- Never did his analysis like he promised, I'm thinking mafia, not much else.
Neutral Line FoU- Claims start of day 2, suspects lurkers, might be scum might not
Tea- has been scum hunting and explaining why he votes, never been pressured though, Asked me who I thought was mafia, maybe to get a read on what the town thinks
NQT- Didn't post much but also kept up the push on moonlit because of classic scum tells, not much read
TheDarkstar- Defended Roo but then investigated by Arcvasti and confirmed not mafia, probably not a werewolf
Arcvasti- Claims cop and I believe it, has been scum hunting and post analyzing like the best of us.
Moonlit Shadow- dead confirmed townie
Kilakan- Dead confirmed townie
Persus13- Dead confirmed townie
Comrade Shamrock- Dead confirmed townie
Most Townie
Doctor Mctaalik- lurking and unresponsive, no read but I'm thinking town because the scum have been active.
Unless I state otherwise, just add my vote to whoever has the most votes to be lynched in a day.
Um, I think your reason for ruling out Doctor vs. Dampe/Varee is misguided because the wolves and (very probably) the mafia have 2 people each left, so as long as they have one active member it doesn't matter. He'd prob be a werewolf just because roo purposefully drew a lot of attention to him at the point when roo was actually participating early on?
Seems generally plausible. I agree that if FoU is scum I'd lean mafia on him, for the weird roo interactions. I think it's possible for there to be two experienced werewolves and two relatively inexperienced mafia.
I don't think it was a no kill I think they were protected,
Wait your statement makes no sense, the mafia is down one member and had the no kill, just confused or scum?
I wold rather have Arcvasti since he seems like an experienced player and could help me be a better mafia, and he would not try to cover for me if I messed up, publicly at least.
I'm not buying Arcavasti as scum. Their analysis is too on point. Why are they better than all the lurkers?I never got a response for this, did I? There were way stronger targets so why did you try and push a mislynch on a town looking player?
I lot of it is meta where I've seen the most townie people turn out to be scum in other mafia games, with little to no tells, you weren't part of the RVS and even if you are scum you are scum hunting for the opposing team appearing town, right now I really don't trust you as much since you hopped in on the stage where it's easiest to act like a townie, combine that with the fact I couldn't get a good read on Mask and you could very well be scum.
So Tea If you were scum would you prefer mafia or werewolves and why.
fillipk:i said my reasoning in the post you quoted, it's easiest to appear town if you miss the RVS stage, and Tea wasn't there for it, and neither was 4madkwolf the person he replaced.I lot of it is meta where I've seen the most townie people turn out to be scum in other mafia games, with little to no tells, you weren't part of the RVS and even if you are scum you are scum hunting for the opposing team appearing town, right now I really don't trust you as much since you hopped in on the stage where it's easiest to act like a townie, combine that with the fact I couldn't get a good read on Mask and you could very well be scum.
So Tea If you were scum would you prefer mafia or werewolves and why.
Why is not participating in RVS bad? How/Why do you think Tea is scummy if you can't read him?
I mostly rank Doctor as not so scummy because he hasn't been too active and the scum have, like I said I couldn't get a good read on him that's just a gut feelingthat doesnt make much sense.... as i stated, me damp doctor and teneb have been pretty much equally inactive, why is he different?
Me,Teneb,Doctor and Dampe havent been doing much but I got to wonder, fillipk, why do you rank Doctor as not so scummy?
Well I know this might be a weird thing for me to ask but can we start making reads?
PFP, I would like to comment that in this game, scum hunting is not a town tell as both scum team are also try to "hunt" each other too.Like my high school English teacher said: so what, who cares? Is your point that both scumhunting and not scumhunting make equal sense from town and scum perspectives? Does this mean we should random.org the lynch? If so, why is anyone discussing anything at all? Do you have any thoughts on ways scumhunting may be done differently by town and by scum? Is there someone in particular that you are trying to imply is scum by this and that we should be paranoid of them? Have you not read all the times other people have mentioned this and even contributed thoughtful specificity? Why are so many of your contributions aimed at nitpicking other people's contributions (implying townreads on ppl for scumhunting are bad, self voting to indicate that ppl should not just focus on a couple of people when hunting) while contributing fuck all yourself? (Including suggesting "we" post huge read walls when you don't actually seem to be including yourself as responsible for doing that, so far?)
I just feel helpless to play to win and I wish I didn't care (like most of you don't)
I think I'm done with forum mafia after this, at least on this site. I thought we might finally be getting somewhere with the Teneb train, but then he just fucking leaves.Don't despair! For whatever reason activity in this game has been much lower than forum standards. The existence of two scum teams acts as a deflationary pressure on the amount of posting because somewhere between three and five people don't want to make waves and there's a fair few busy or inexperienced players besides.
Not Quoting the whole thing because I don't want to make this post too big.
I would be a hypocrite to argue that my day 1 mistakes don't matter as you have pointed out. Yes I scum hunted lazily day 1, but then I have improved that on both day 2 and day 3 and the second half of day 1 after a little trial and error. As to me not sticking my vote to one person long enough to have it mean anything, I cite my final vote on Roo, my vote on Moonlit day 2, that claim is quite a lie unless you only look at day 1. I changed my vote a couple times on day 2 but both times it was when new information made someone scummier, and then cleared them up.
As to my apparent standard response all of those quotes are from a time period of two days. All other times I defended myself with logic and reason and didn't mention my newness to the game.
@the Moonlit shadow exchange, I'm reading back through the thread and I realized two things, how bad the day 1 exchange looks on me and a couple things Moonlit posted that make them look really town.
hmmm this defense isn't making me look town, but then again your accusation is mostly based on my day 1 performance and my day 2 scum hunting and I don't know how to defend myself from this.
Well thanks for posting more, all your scum hunting, even though its on me, gives me the impression you are town.
I'm going to leave my vote on Teneb since I think he is the most likely to be scum even though he is requesting a replacement. His first post has a hint of him being a werewolf as he wants to focus finding mafia. His second post defends Dampe and tries to shut down speculation, which helps but I believe speculation can be used to decide who to pressure.
If I'm breaking a curtesy rule by not changing my vote please let me know
Can we get a vote count?Now that I am home from a long and damp family reuinion, yes.
@Mod- Is there a reason that 'replacement needed' isn't in the subject? Did you miss or are you ignoring Arcvasti's question about which faction(s) was/were responsible for the Comrade kill?Re: Arcvasti's question:
Replacement Request. Sorry, but I am too stressed (and with too unstable a connection) to play mafia right now.
Sorry, yeah, didn't see that.Replacement Request. Sorry, but I am too stressed (and with too unstable a connection) to play mafia right now.
Those on the Dampe wagon, can you explain why we should lynch them today?
0/2 extensions used, 1/3 extend votes
Silly me, I missed yours. :P0/2 extensions used, 1/3 extend votes
I voted to extend, as did Tea a few seconds before your post. TheDarkStar just voted to extend too, so that's three votes now.
Teneb
I disliked Teneb's first post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?t...52#msg6458652). I feel like the explanation of OMGUS when no one asked for one is more there to look like he's being helpful than anything. He's not using it to ask a more than surface level question or to present any of his own thoughts. I also dislike his question toward FallacyofUrist, though I am having trouble articulating why - the tone of it strikes me as "discrediting" rather than "curious," is the best way that I can. He later asks Moonlit what Moonlit's going to do about their trouble finding people suspicious, and then spends a couple of posts insulting roo. That's the sum of his D1 efforts.
His D2 post in which he asks Arcv and FoU a question each and generally posts that he's concerned about losing two townies per night is okay. The vote on Arcv for the in-depth nightkill spec rather than actually looking @ people's behavior is sort of boring, but I'd guess he finds Arcv scummy regardless of his own alignment. He does seem pretty happy to skate though the game and leave it up to everyone else to put actual opinions out there, in general.
@Arc: The single last night was by mafia, does that change any of your opinion about the event?
@Tea: Maybe on night two both team target the same target and town is not F'ed?My point about the Night 2 werewolf kill was because at least one person yesterday (I think DoctorMcTaalik and maybe also fillip) were suggesting that the werewolf team may have just missed out on nightkilling. The mod confirmed on late D2 that the mafia was the only team to target Comrade and acted like I was an idiot for even considering that it involved the wolf team based on the flavor. I was trying to point out that scumhunting based on werewolves being the most inactive people is really unlikely to be accurate and will probably make us miss something. Regardless, my point about the size of the werewolf faction was not actually related to the point about the N2 kill, so this question doesn't make any sense to me. I was trying to point out that town will almost definitely lose if we do not lynch a werewolf today, and that it will be difficult to do so because there's such a high density of people who are pro-werewolf, and that's something to keep in mind when watching interactions.
Anyway, I think Deus Asmoth is prob werewolf-aligned with at least one of Doctor/Varee since they effectively protected him by lynching Dampe.Ok, but why? Your original case against
FoU:That seems like an entirely reasonable question to ask. Kilakan wasn't under any suspicion at the time and neither was FoU, so claiming his inspect (and that it was a one-shot that he'd used up) served little purpose.Dangit, that's a one-shot seer wasted. (I used it on Kilakan last night.)Why claim this?
I am not married to my vote. There are things that could be discussed that could change my mind. However, what with people I'm townreading continuing to flip town while the person I was begging people not to rule out as scum flipped scum, I'm feeling confident that Deus's slot, who has been my #1 scumread the entire game, is likely scum. I think because there is such a high density of scum alive (hell, there could be more people not aligned with the town around than people that are,) people's choices of votes and reactions should be pretty telling Today if I do take a firm stance. Deus is a smart guy, and though he can't answer for Teneb, he can at least present a viable alternate game state for me to weigh, which I look forward to. I also know that if he is scum, it won't be easy to lynch him, but I'm up for the challenge.This is pinging all kinds of worries for me. Why do you need to point out that your mind can be changed? Then, in reverse order:
I also know that if he is scum, it won't be easy to lynch him, but I'm up for the challenge.I've got two votes on me at the start of the day. You may be overselling this.
...Deus's slot, who has been my #1 scumread the entire game...False. Your first mention of being suspicious of Teneb was at the start of day 3, and you replaced in during day 2.
...people I'm townreading continuing to flip town while the person I was begging people not to rule out as scum flipped scum...Also false. You mentioned not having a town read on TDS during day 2 and had a small amount of interaction with him during day 3, but it certainly never got to the point of indicating a particularly strong scum read on him. You clearly didn't have a strong town read on Dampe considering that you were willing to lynch him before the extend went through.
FoU: Do you think you can tell apart newbie flailing from scum flailing? If so, how? If not, why did you vote for someone who is very much new despite that?
As for insulting roo, I don't have any experience with LSP, so I can't comment on whether or not it was an insult or not. One post doesn't equal a couple, though.
I hypothesize that logic is directly proportional to lack of noobyness.Not the case. Roo is certainly not a newbie, but is still the subforum version of LSP.
I'm going to confess I have no clue who or what LSP is.Lord Slowpoke (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=21412)
False. Your first mention of being suspicious of Teneb was at the start of day 3, and you replaced in during day 2.Uh, no you? I mentioned that I thought he was scummy when talking to and about Arcvasti during Day 2. My priority at the time was more understanding what the fuck was going on then trying to pressure a specific lurker, which you can argue was poor use of my time, but the read was still there. I would've taken basically any lurker counterwagon to Moonlit during D2 since I was leaning town on her, it just happened to be Dampe since someone else had voted for him.
So let's look at what I actually said.OMGUS isn't a site-specific meta. It's also entirely reasonable that he's point out that someone was OMGUSing when that person was OMGUSing and didn't seem to have any form of problem with themselves doing it.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I think that putting yourself in a teaching role/someone knowledgeable about the site meta seemingly unnecessarily (as he did in his first post) is a way of looking like you're helpful without actually having to put yourself out there? It's information instead of analysis. I also think that the post he spends making fun of roo and the additional post he spends explaining the joke fits into a pattern of behavior of fluffy posts that allow him to skate by - he's not lurky and blatantly scummy enough to get lynched, but he's not helpful enough to get nightkilled.
I don't think the FoU question you quoted is alignment indicative, as I stated above. The question about FoU from Teneb that pinged for me was:I must've missed that one. Is it really scummy that he was behaving aggressively during the RVS?QuoteFoU: Do you think you can tell apart newbie flailing from scum flailing? If so, how? If not, why did you vote for someone who is very much new despite that?
The problem with his activity on both days is not that simple. It's combined with him being active in other games, which makes me think the lurking was strategic. Newer players lurking because they don't know what to say is more null to me.I know that Teneb was very inactive during that BYOP that was running. Not sure whether he was active in other things at the same time, but I don't think he was.
You are just plain wrong about me being the thing that tipped the Dampe lynch?I'm not, you know. The votes were tied, you moved your vote onto Dampe, giving him the majority. TDS then voted for him, solidifying that majority. TDS might have voted for Dampe and gotten him lynched regardless, sure, but that's irrelevant. You moving your vote back to Teneb afterwards is also irrelevant.
QuoteFalse. Your first mention of being suspicious of Teneb was at the start of day 3, and you replaced in during day 2.Uh, no you? I mentioned that I thought he was scummy when talking to and about Arcvasti during Day 2.
I actually thought Teneb's reason for voting [Arcvasti] was more compelling even though I kinda think he's scummy?That's the only mention of you being suspicious of Teneb during day 2. I guess I missed it since it was buried in the middle of a three paragraph reply to someone else. So yes, while you mentioned being suspicious of him during day 2, it doesn't exactly mesh with your claim that he's been your top scumread for the entire game.
Arcvasti: you mentioned that you thought there was a doctor in the game because the werewolves didn't kill you. Why do you think the werewolves would have targeted you when your power would benefit them in killing the mafia?
Right now[I THINK, at least] we've got probably three scum plus maybe a defector, which means town is outnumbered. Target-rich environment, so yay! :PUnfortunately I can't divulge the details regarding whether or not you are correct, but I want to congratulate everyone on roughly figuring out this much!
As per information in the OP, each scum team starts with 2 people. So at the game's beginning, we had to deal with 2 Werewolves and 2 Mafia. We've lynched a Mafia Goon, so we've got 2 Werewolves and a Mafioso to deal with now.Is/was this actually in the OP? flabort said afterwards that the scumteams could have two to three people, but I don't see anything in the OP that would lead FoU to this conclusion beforehand unless he had first hand knowledge of how many people were on one of the teams. Announcing his use of his one shot with no useful result still seems weird to me.
This game feels like a group project that I'm doing >50% of the work on and then you show up late every once in a while just to criticize me. :/) I dont know if you should be that certain with your decision.
Arcvasti why do you think that Fallacy is town?
Oppose extension: we have our man. Deus Asmoth is scum by elimination if nothing else.
Come on NQT, you can't just do that. Nqt, what make you think bandwagon voting at this state is OK? What about you buddying tea for the last few days? It MyLo and it seem everyone just decide on whatever.Varee, bandwagoning is acceptable when the target is actually scum. You can't say anything in Deus' favour because you know it's true.
Since Deus Asmoth isn't Mafia, but is scum, and you are too, you're the last Mafia member.Hate to break it to you, but I'm actually town. Why do you think I'm some kind of scum?
Since Deus Asmoth isn't Mafia, but is scum, and you are too, you're the last Mafia member.Hate to break it to you, but I'm actually town. Why do you think I'm some kind of scum?
Me,Teneb,Doctor and Dampe havent been doing much but I got to wonder, fillipk, why do you rank Doctor as not so scummy?
Me,Teneb,Doctor and Dampe havent been doing much but I got to wonder, fillipk, why do you rank Doctor as not so scummy?
You know, I'm wondering the same thing myself. As you will read further on in this post, I'm highly suspicious of Fillipk. Perhaps one of the other lurkers is his scumbuddy, and he's trying to distance himself from them.Well I know this might be a weird thing for me to ask but can we start making reads?
Alright, you asked for it. Text wall, activate!
The following are in ascending order of apparent scumminess, roughly. I chose not to include those players that I have yet to thoroughly examine.
Varee::
Maybe scum. Has yet to contribute much, though their claim that this is due to real life issues rather than active lurking holds some water; if you take a look at their profile, it's been over a week since they posted on any topics besides this one.
TheDarkStar:
Further analysis needed. Infrequent posting, but certainly not the worst offender.
Teneb:
As Arc pointed out, your recent inactivity in only this particular game as well as other factors were kind of suspicious. However, this isn't the only game you've dropped out of within the last couple of days, so RL problems are plausible. I really hope you weren't scum; in that case, we're probably screwed.
Dampe:
I think I made my suspicion pretty clear. After Fillipk, you strike me as the scummiest of the bunch.
Fillipk:
Scum. See spoiler.Spoiler: aforementioned spoiler (click to show/hide)
When he was active, Teneb actually sort of helped, and he actually bit the bullet and asked for a replacement. Dampe hasn't really done much at all this game, and rather than drop out earlier he asked for an automatic bandwagon in the absence of posts. So Dampe is just a tad scummier in my mind.
Bah (I've posted more than nearly half the players in the game today now ::) )Aye.
Well TEA NQT , it me and you two now, whoever suppose to be on my side is not doing anything and it seems like not much I can do now... So let go NQT ,Let see how long the last reamining mafia can survive....
Would you wanna lynch varee y/nTo prevent no lynch, definitely, but I'd much prefer to hit Doc.
Feel free to use gifs when trying to convince me which of you I should vote for.
Oh hey, I actually did manage to save Tea's life there. Besides that, my double power roles were pretty fantastically useless and actually made it HARDER to identify TheDarkStar.
Woo town won somehow! Well done i suppose everyone, though the slew of replacements required throughout was certainly interestingI will definitely not run a game that REQUIRES that many players in the future. At least not until the forum can support it.