Post by: miauw62 on June 02, 2015, 12:02:51 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE2BkLqMef4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE2BkLqMef4) TRAILER
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h35g4KsBYXc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h35g4KsBYXc) E3 PRESENTATION
ITS HAPPENING.
The overal atmosphere of the game seems to be not like that of the previous two games, introducing much more color.
ALSO YOU CAN CUSTOMIZE YOUR POWER ARMOR AND THERES A DOG AND THERES CUSTOM WEAPONS HOLY SHIT
ALSO YOU CAN BUILD DYNAMICALLY IN THE WORLD AND HAVE SETTLEMENTS IN VANILLA
(http://i.imgur.com/97t5fPq.png)
http://i.imgur.com/nj5uHQg.webm (http://i.imgur.com/nj5uHQg.webm) MEME SUMMARY
Spoiler: MAP MADE BY SOME DUDE (click to show/hide)
Post by: TempAcc on June 02, 2015, 12:07:17 pm
Additionaly: AWW YISS
Post by: TripJack on June 02, 2015, 12:17:33 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 02, 2015, 12:33:35 pm
Post by: Ozyton on June 02, 2015, 12:45:11 pm
Quote
bethsoft.comWell...
Post by: Darkmere on June 02, 2015, 01:25:22 pm
i'll be hyped if it magically turns out the game isn't being made by bethesda
Yeah, pretty much. FO3 taught me that FO4 made by Bethesda will just be FO3 again with a bastardization of the plot and cartoony villains. I'll probably sit this one out for a long while.
Post by: DwarfOfTheLand on June 02, 2015, 01:32:56 pm
also
(http://puu.sh/i9UoR/f6309fd28c.jpg)
Post by: miljan on June 02, 2015, 01:34:53 pm
Post by: Teneb on June 02, 2015, 01:35:55 pm
PTWI got that with firefox. Chrome loaded it fine.
also
(http://puu.sh/i9UoR/f6309fd28c.jpg)
Post by: Jarvis on June 02, 2015, 01:47:52 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: TempAcc on June 02, 2015, 02:06:47 pm
Post by: Iceblaster on June 02, 2015, 02:08:18 pm
Yaaaay!
Don't fuck this up Bethesda :P
Post by: BFEL on June 02, 2015, 02:11:26 pm
Post by: Virtz on June 02, 2015, 02:28:16 pm
Well, it could be worse. Imagine if the Bioware logo appeared there.i'll be hyped if it magically turns out the game isn't being made by bethesdaYeah, pretty much. FO3 taught me that FO4 made by Bethesda will just be FO3 again with a bastardization of the plot and cartoony villains. I'll probably sit this one out for a long while.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 02, 2015, 02:42:55 pm
"A project with our partners, EA Games!"Well, it could be worse. Imagine if the Bioware logo appeared there.i'll be hyped if it magically turns out the game isn't being made by bethesdaYeah, pretty much. FO3 taught me that FO4 made by Bethesda will just be FO3 again with a bastardization of the plot and cartoony villains. I'll probably sit this one out for a long while.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on June 02, 2015, 02:45:36 pm
Produced by Bethseda, written and made by Activision-Blizzard"A project with our partners, EA Games!"Well, it could be worse. Imagine if the Bioware logo appeared there.i'll be hyped if it magically turns out the game isn't being made by bethesdaYeah, pretty much. FO3 taught me that FO4 made by Bethesda will just be FO3 again with a bastardization of the plot and cartoony villains. I'll probably sit this one out for a long while.
Post by: Jarvis on June 02, 2015, 02:46:46 pm
Featuring paid mods courtesy of SteamProduced by Bethseda, written and made by Activision-Blizzard"A project with our partners, EA Games!"Well, it could be worse. Imagine if the Bioware logo appeared there.i'll be hyped if it magically turns out the game isn't being made by bethesdaYeah, pretty much. FO3 taught me that FO4 made by Bethesda will just be FO3 again with a bastardization of the plot and cartoony villains. I'll probably sit this one out for a long while.
Post by: da_nang on June 02, 2015, 03:35:41 pm
-snip-(http://www.upl.co/uploads/KatiaTableFlip1433277294.gif)
Featuring paid mods courtesy of Steam
Post by: nenjin on June 02, 2015, 03:37:15 pm
Post by: Trapezohedron on June 02, 2015, 04:02:38 pm
Post by: Jarvis on June 02, 2015, 04:05:10 pm
Post by: kaenneth on June 02, 2015, 04:06:55 pm
Post by: Trapezohedron on June 02, 2015, 04:25:54 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on June 02, 2015, 05:02:45 pm
Post by: Jarvis on June 02, 2015, 05:19:34 pm
Just, uh, what am I looking at here?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Iceblaster on June 02, 2015, 05:27:28 pm
Just, uh, what am I looking at here?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I have a feeling it is about the fallout countdown revealing a rickroll youtube link.
I don't know, I'm not believing until the timer is over :P
Post by: TripJack on June 02, 2015, 05:29:18 pm
Well, it could be worse. Imagine if the Bioware logo appeared there.saying this makes me feel unclean but i think bioware would be better
Post by: Jarvis on June 02, 2015, 05:32:53 pm
Yeah, I guess that makes sense. This would be a pretty ingenious way to rickroll a large audience of people.Just, uh, what am I looking at here?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I have a feeling it is about the fallout countdown revealing a rickroll youtube link.
I don't know, I'm not believing until the timer is over :P
Post by: Vendayn on June 02, 2015, 05:34:28 pm
Post by: Tellemurius on June 02, 2015, 05:38:33 pm
watch the announcement that they partnered with EA and Fallout 4 will be online only, due to reasons.You mean to tell me they are going to make a Fallout MMO? SIGN ME UP NOW.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 02, 2015, 05:41:33 pm
watch the announcement that they partnered with EA and Fallout 4 will be online only, due to reasons.You mean to tell me they are going to make a Fallout MMO? SIGN ME UP NOW.
It had been worked on, but was a casualty of the Bethseda-Interplay copyright war. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout_Online)
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on June 02, 2015, 05:44:37 pm
watch the announcement that they partnered with EA and Fallout 4 will be online only, due to reasons.You mean to tell me they are going to make a Fallout MMO? SIGN ME UP NOW.
that's literally happened so many times already...
Post by: Tellemurius on June 02, 2015, 06:00:21 pm
Post by: nenjin on June 02, 2015, 06:02:30 pm
But not officially! Think of it, ESO set in the wastelands of California with a great single player story written by Bioware.
Now that you put it like that, it sounds terrible :P Although who doesn't want to rep grind so you can bang your robotron.
Post by: kaenneth on June 02, 2015, 08:31:50 pm
Gamebryo is just one piece of middleware they use, and many developers have made games that don't crash all the time with it.
Post by: Tellemurius on June 02, 2015, 10:23:24 pm
I'm kinda annoyed at people badmouthing Gamebryo when it has nothing to do with Bethesda's bugs.It will probably running on Creation Engine which is a licensed Gamebryo engine for Bethesda's use.
Gamebryo is just one piece of middleware they use, and many developers have made games that don't crash all the time with it.
Gamebryo is not a bad engine but Bethesda can sure as hell screw it up. Though if i remember correctly Obsidian Entertainment had alot of issues with the engine when developing NV which might have forced Bethesda to actually build their own rendition of the engine for future use.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 02, 2015, 10:37:46 pm
LET OBSIDIAN HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH THIS GAME
ALSO THREE DOG, BECAUSE YES
Post by: miauw62 on June 03, 2015, 01:00:37 am
It's gonna have user-made, user-paid mods, I guarantee you this. Back when Valve backpedaled, they said it was foolish that they tried doing so in an already-established and fully developed modding community. Now that Bethesda's bringing something "new" to the table, and we all know how much Bethesda wants your money, it's gonna have 'em, it's gonna run exclusively through Steam again, and it's gonna be on the Gamebryo engine. I wonder how much the Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch is gonna cost.Thing is, it's not the Skyrim modding community that's established, it's the TES modding community, and to a lesser extent Fallout's.
I really, really hate the Gamebryo engine. I hate Bethesda. I hate that we tend to slobber over games that are either in their sixth(Elder Scrolls) or fourth/fifth iteration. I'm tired of this common flavor. I'm a little bit sorry for taking a poop all over your hype train, but this dissenting voice must make its part.
Post by: Metalax on June 03, 2015, 01:58:50 am
Post by: Yoink on June 03, 2015, 03:04:09 am
I'm interested to see where it's set. Hopefully it's more FO3 and less NV... and hopefully it has a new engine.
Man, the FO3/NV engine has definitely passed its use-by date. :P
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 03, 2015, 08:38:48 am
Spoiler: WELCOME HOME (click to show/hide)
Post by: SealyStar on June 03, 2015, 09:01:55 am
EDIT: Nah, trailer's out. INT 3.
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 03, 2015, 09:08:22 am
EDIT: First impressions - the graphics are very colourful and, I'd even say, cartoonish. The colour palette is the direct opposite of Fallout 3.
Post by: Krevsin on June 03, 2015, 09:12:38 am
Either way
HYPE HYPE HYPE
Post by: Yoink on June 03, 2015, 09:12:57 am
The character animations looked as familiar as a worn-in old shoe.
Post by: SealyStar on June 03, 2015, 09:15:42 am
EDIT: Also, the source for the new Fallout 4 site has this:
Quote
Vault-Tec Central Mainframe has been restarted. Please attempt re-access. Have a pleasant day.
Post by: miauw62 on June 03, 2015, 09:16:47 am
People will rebuild the world eventually, and since games are usually chronological...
Anyway, we all know there are going to be some Ultimate UltraHD Super Duper Shader Mods, so hey.
E:
the page is still the same for me but hey.
also the hype is real now i have this thread and i have to take care of it ohgod im too young for this ;-;
Post by: Yoink on June 03, 2015, 09:19:02 am
My concern is how horribly clunky the old engine was. Any similarities between the trailer and the previous games is cause for concern in my opinion.
I'm still looking forward to the game, I mean, c'mon it's a new Fallout game. I'm just disappointed by the familiar clunky animations.
Post by: Zangi on June 03, 2015, 09:20:27 am
It's gonna have user-made, user-paid mods, I guarantee you this. Back when Valve backpedaled, they said it was foolish that they tried doing so in an already-established and fully developed modding community. Now that Bethesda's bringing something "new" to the table, and we all know how much Bethesda wants your money, it's gonna have 'em, it's gonna run exclusively through Steam again, and it's gonna be on the Gamebryo engine. I wonder how much the Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch is gonna cost.Well, if the mod sale policies are going to be the same exact thing, there is no problem with people using part of a mod or adding on to it. Or doing the same thing, but free. Without permission.
I really, really hate the Gamebryo engine. I hate Bethesda. I hate that we tend to slobber over games that are either in their sixth(Elder Scrolls) or fourth/fifth iteration. I'm tired of this common flavor. I'm a little bit sorry for taking a poop all over your hype train, but this dissenting voice must make its part.
We will see what kinda shitstorm can be brewed up when it comes over I reckon. (Would not be surprised is NewCom2 will feature user-made mods too actually...)
Post by: TempAcc on June 03, 2015, 09:20:40 am
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 03, 2015, 09:21:08 am
The rest of the scenes are not bad - pretty much at the level of Skyrim.
EDIT: That airship reminds me of Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel. Also, we have proper weather now, it seems.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mech#4 on June 03, 2015, 09:42:46 am
Post by: Iceblaster on June 03, 2015, 09:44:33 am
:D
Yaaaaay holy shit yay it fucking looks awesome holy shit :D
Better not fuck this up Bethesda :P
Where do people think it is being based in America? Not being American I cannot pick up on any landmarks if they were shown. is that statue from a specific place or is it a common memorial?
It's a guy on a horse. Paul Revere? Iunno. If anything, it looks like it's in Chicago, going by the Airships. Only canonical set of airships with BoS involvement is the Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel from Fallout:Tactics.
EDIT: Then again, Fallout America is different from real Murica, sooo...
Post by: miljan on June 03, 2015, 09:44:52 am
Post by: Blargityblarg on June 03, 2015, 09:45:36 am
Post by: TempAcc on June 03, 2015, 09:46:57 am
EDIT: this one (http://pdxwolfy.org/NE-Canada/Boston/page02.html)
Post by: Iceblaster on June 03, 2015, 09:48:09 am
The statue does look like paul revere's from boston, yes.
tbh, my second guess would've been general lee :P
Even if his statue on a horse is in Richmond, Virginia :P
Post by: TempAcc on June 03, 2015, 09:53:15 am
I dont recognize the building behind it, though.
Post by: SealyStar on June 03, 2015, 09:55:51 am
Post by: Iceblaster on June 03, 2015, 09:59:56 am
I can't tell, but I'm hoping that's the same engine that Skyrim used. If it is, yay! The NPCs will no longer try to murder us by staring!
But no more Malcom Holme saving us from Legion Assassins because he has to tell us about star bottle caps :P
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 03, 2015, 10:04:42 am
Post by: NobodyPro on June 03, 2015, 10:22:57 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 03, 2015, 10:37:48 am
Welcome back to the Capital Wasteland, home of Bethesda's broke-ass lore, leave your wallet and bank account PIN at the entrance to be charged for everything, enjoy your sub-standard game.Gee, we sure needed to be negative about this reveal that happened today.
Post by: Yoink on June 03, 2015, 10:38:59 am
He/she is clearly happy feeling superior and laughing at anyone who might be excited about the game. >.>
Post by: scriver on June 03, 2015, 10:47:05 am
I can't tell, but I'm hoping that's the same engine that Skyrim used. If it is, yay! The NPCs will no longer try to murder us by staring!
I can tell from the walks-like-rush-crapped-their-pants animations that it is definitely the same engine as their previous games.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 03, 2015, 10:48:14 am
Post by: TripJack on June 03, 2015, 10:52:41 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 03, 2015, 10:59:26 am
BETHESDA CAN SEE GREEN! PRAISE BE!
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 03, 2015, 11:02:26 am
Just ignore 'em.
He/she is clearly happy feeling superior and laughing at anyone who might be excited about the game. >.>
Maybe, just maybe, if effing Bethesda had actually tried to make Fallout 3 something other than a blatant cash-grab that failed to even have internal goddamn consistency, I'd actually be happy to see another developed by them. As it stands, and with their recent disastrous foray into pay-for mods, I have no faith in anything they make.
Post by: scriver on June 03, 2015, 11:06:17 am
If that's the case, even if it's a good game I'm not touching it. The graphics of FO3/NV have been... I dunno. There's something about them that REALLY puts me off, and this is coming from a DF/Aurora player.I can't tell, but I'm hoping that's the same engine that Skyrim used. If it is, yay! The NPCs will no longer try to murder us by staring!
I can tell from the walks-like-rush-crapped-their-pants animations that it is definitely the same engine as their previous games.
Well, it's going to at least mean every enemy can be defeated by standing on a knee-high platform they for some reason can't step up on. Not to mention climb or fly onto. Bethesda: Bringing 2D to your 3D since 2001!
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 03, 2015, 11:10:40 am
I know. Believe and/or do not believe in what you want. But do you need to spread the negativity into this goddamn thread? After a fucking REVEAL trailer?Just ignore 'em.
He/she is clearly happy feeling superior and laughing at anyone who might be excited about the game. >.>
Maybe, just maybe, if effing Bethesda had actually tried to make Fallout 3 something other than a blatant cash-grab that failed to even have internal goddamn consistency, I'd actually be happy to see another developed by them. As it stands, and with their recent disastrous foray into pay-for mods, I have no faith in anything they make.
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 03, 2015, 11:11:51 am
Post by: TempAcc on June 03, 2015, 11:12:26 am
And... You find insulting that people might pay for something with their money? :o
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 03, 2015, 11:13:05 am
Post by: scriver on June 03, 2015, 11:17:03 am
/me can neither deny nor confirm already having pre-ordered Fallout 4.
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 03, 2015, 11:18:08 am
Yes. Paying for garbage just perpetuates Bethesda's attitude towards the property, and I find that attitude insulting.
Poor reading comprehension there.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 03, 2015, 11:18:40 am
Post by: Iceblaster on June 03, 2015, 11:19:53 am
Should we start ragging on any game being released as soon as it's announced in fear that it might be garbage and perpetuate garbage games?
On another note, I hope more is released in the coming weeks :3
Post by: Ultimuh on June 03, 2015, 11:20:19 am
At least hold your judgement until they actually released the game.
Although remember to keep your hype low, then you might either be pleasanlty surprised, or it is indeed as bad you expected.
Post by: TempAcc on June 03, 2015, 11:21:19 am
Yes. Paying for garbage just perpetuates Bethesda's attitude towards the property, and I find that attitude insulting.
Poor reading comprehension there.
Thats not really a bethesda exclusive thing, you know, and you did mention paying for garbage, implying said thing is garbage over a... Release teaser?
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 03, 2015, 11:24:25 am
-Snip-
Ok, you've said your point.
Now you can leave.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on June 03, 2015, 11:26:44 am
Two weeks should be more than enough time for reviews to come out, and you even have 2 hours to try it yourself.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 03, 2015, 11:28:07 am
Post by: miauw62 on June 03, 2015, 11:43:43 am
Post by: Teneb on June 03, 2015, 11:48:42 am
It's not. It's quite probably the Creation Engine, the same as Skyrim. The Gamebryo engine can no longer be used by Beth. I think that either the license expired or Gamebryo went bankrupt, not sure.I can't tell, but I'm hoping that's the same engine that Skyrim used. If it is, yay! The NPCs will no longer try to murder us by staring!
I can tell from the walks-like-rush-crapped-their-pants animations that it is definitely the same engine as their previous games.
The Creation Engine is very similar to Gamebryo, with the main differences being that dialogue no longer happens in its own time-bubble and animations are a little better.
Post by: Geltor on June 03, 2015, 11:51:54 am
Post by: umiman on June 03, 2015, 11:53:25 am
For several reasons:
1. There will be a number of game-breaking bugs that prevent you from advancing anywhere. Anything from broken quest lines to missing NPCs to straight up save-file corruption is not only possible, but likely.
2. Bethesda games go on sale often and dramatically.
3. There's more mods and they get better the longer you wait.
Post by: Jarvis on June 03, 2015, 11:54:21 am
Post by: Ultimuh on June 03, 2015, 11:58:17 am
If the latest rumors are true the main character will be voiced throughout the game and can only be male. Not sure how I feel about it.
Let's just wait and see.
But if you are that concerned, perhaps you should make or participate in a petition of sorts?
Post by: Damiac on June 03, 2015, 12:10:13 pm
Fallout NV was fun, but was just too much like fallout 3.
I look forward to this, but I certainly won't pre-order.
If the latest rumors are true the main character will be voiced throughout the game and can only be male. Not sure how I feel about it.I know, a forced gender in a story driven game! That reminds me of another thing that really pissed me off, in the book Fahrenheit 451, the main character's name was Guy Montag, and he was a male. I mean, wtf, I don't even get to name the main character? :P
My point actually being, if you want a game with a heavy story, you do kind of have to nail down the main character a bit, at least if that character is going to be a major player in the story, and not just an observer.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 03, 2015, 12:11:21 pm
My point actually being, if you want a game with a heavy story, you do kind of have to nail down the main character a bit, at least if that character is going to be a major player in the story, and not just an observer.
They managed perfectly well to have male and female Commander Shepards.
Post by: miauw62 on June 03, 2015, 12:12:23 pm
Especially the TES universe is littered with nameless heroes.
I don't really mind, but some people will get pissed.
E:
And somebody will make a female protag mod eventually.
Post by: scriver on June 03, 2015, 12:16:19 pm
It's not. It's quite probably the Creation Engine, the same as Skyrim. The Gamebryo engine can no longer be used by Beth. I think that either the license expired or Gamebryo went bankrupt, not sure.
The Creation Engine is very similar to Gamebryo, with the main differences being that dialogue no longer happens in its own time-bubble and animations are a little better.
The "Creation Engine" is 95% Gamebryo Engine, with a few changes, updates and finishes added on, they just decided to rebrand the thing since their Gamebryo engine had gotten such a bad reputation, and because they thought (correctly) that it would hype Skyrim more if they raved about their "new improved engine" a lot.
And no, Gamebryo didn't go bankrupt.
Post by: MasterFancyPants on June 03, 2015, 12:18:22 pm
Fallout 3 was excellent, for its time. I had probably 40 hours of fun with that game, and probably another 15 hours of so-so enjoyment.
Fallout NV was fun, but was just too much like fallout 3.
I look forward to this, but I certainly won't pre-order.If the latest rumors are true the main character will be voiced throughout the game and can only be male. Not sure how I feel about it.I know, a forced gender in a story driven game! That reminds me of another thing that really pissed me off, in the book Fahrenheit 451, the main character's name was Guy Montag, and he was a male. I mean, wtf, I don't even get to name the main character? :P
My point actually being, if you want a game with a heavy story, you do kind of have to nail down the main character a bit, at least if that character is going to be a major player in the story, and not just an observer.
Heavy Story? Sorry man, this isn't 2002. Beth don't do stories no mo'.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 03, 2015, 12:20:18 pm
Post by: scriver on June 03, 2015, 12:21:56 pm
Post by: SealyStar on June 03, 2015, 12:22:31 pm
Unless there's some other source for inside information, the only indication for a voiced PC is the dude in the trailer, which doesn't confirm anything about the actual game. As for the PC being male-only: I may get some flack for acknowledging this, but feminism/social justice in gaming is pretty damn close to its apex and I think Bethesda would be in boiling hot water if they made a male-only character while every Elder Scrolls and Fallout in the past has offered a choice of gender.
Post by: Iceblaster on June 03, 2015, 12:23:35 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 03, 2015, 12:23:53 pm
He's saying Bethesda doesn't do story driven games.I know. I'm marveling at it.
Post by: SealyStar on June 03, 2015, 12:28:54 pm
The only reasonable criteria by which I would consider Bethesda games "story driven" are a) having a main story at all or b) featuring characters, dialogue, and other common elements of stories.
Post by: Teneb on June 03, 2015, 12:31:37 pm
/me will never believe any rumors until Bethesda is like 'hey guyz this what we doin up in dis place'For all their faults, Bethesda tends to be pretty good at not letting many bits of information leak into the public.
I wonder if the launch bugs will rival Skyrim's backwards-flying dragons and the nude courier (RIP). That was amusing while it lasted.
Bethesda has never done story-driven games unless we have some very bizarre notions of "story driven". In every Bethesda game I've played the side missions and exploration are substantially larger, both in terms of development resources and on the player side, than the relatively meager main stories.There was Redguard. It was actually pretty decent. It is also ancient history though.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 03, 2015, 12:31:58 pm
Post by: jocan2003 on June 03, 2015, 12:45:43 pm
Anyhow i will watch without following the hype train as i have been burned too many time.
Post by: Mishrak on June 03, 2015, 12:54:44 pm
Post by: Wimopy on June 03, 2015, 12:57:23 pm
Also, it's a trailer. Games can change A LOT compared to what can be seen in a trailer. Usually, the graphics get worse and a lot of features are added/cut, but they definitely change. I said the same thing for XCOM: Wait it out before saying too much based on the trailer. For all we know, they might just be hyping people with footage they made using FO3 stuff.
Boston sounds plausible, going by the vault numbering, since 101 was near Washington and Boston is rather close to Washington.
As for voice acting; you might still have choice for a character and have a fully voiced game. Just look at how Saints Row pulled it off. It worked pretty fine for them, so it might work in Fallout. Still, I don't expect it to be voiced, just for advertisement reasons. Or that might not even be the player character, just a companion. Or just some random guy who came out of a vault.
Anyways, enough plotting, time to wait for more info. PTW.
Post by: Jarvis on June 03, 2015, 01:02:18 pm
Post by: TempAcc on June 03, 2015, 01:04:38 pm
Post by: Jarvis on June 03, 2015, 01:07:09 pm
Post by: TripJack on June 03, 2015, 01:42:05 pm
And I liked FO3's plot and DLCs way more than FNV's.why? fallout 3's plot was full of massive holes and characters doing nonsensical things plus the game never gives the player any reason to care about what's happening or go along with it other than lack of alternative
Post by: Yoink on June 03, 2015, 01:56:47 pm
I enjoyed it. I definitely enjoyed it a lot more than the story of Oblivion, and was actually surprised at the time by how good it was.
NV's plot was alright, too, but not nearly as good. It felt like it never really focused on the factions/plotlines I found most interesting.
Maybe my standards had just increased a bit in the time between FO3 and NV, who knows.
Post by: Neonivek on June 03, 2015, 01:57:28 pm
And I liked FO3's plot and DLCs way more than FNV's.why? fallout 3's plot was full of massive holes and characters doing nonsensical things plus the game never gives the player any reason to care about what's happening or go along with it other than lack of alternative
How about the fact that Fo3's plot has actual stakes
While New Vegas' plot has absolutely no consequences
In fact out of all the Fallout games created... New Vegas probably has the most "So what?" plot of them all. As 1, 2, and 3 actually would have completely changed the landscape of the entire fallout universe.
It is only because New Vegas outright IGNORES Fallout 3 that its' effect has diminished.
I honestly was expecting there to be a bigger plot somewhere the entire time I was playing New Vegas... like maybe someone was going to use the robots to take over the US... But no... New Vegas is completely superfluous to the plot (but that is because the game was originally intended as a expansion to Fallout 3)
Post by: Damiac on June 03, 2015, 02:00:22 pm
The Hype Train is rarely anything other than pure speculation.You forgot to wildly speculate in this post...
I assume that there will be male and female options, and the main character will mainly just be a trigger for story events, rather than a real part of the story, like with most wRPGs, and fallout games in particular. My 'point' (such as it was) was simply that if they did decide to make the main character actually part of the story, like the witcher games for example, it makes sense to have a more set character.
I found FO3's plot to be semi-ok, the self sacrifice at the end made NO sense, but then final fantasy gets away with having characters die all the time when there's a cheap, infinitely available method to resurrect people...
I mean, it won't win literary prizes, but it wasn't utter nonsense.
Post by: Fniff on June 03, 2015, 02:00:50 pm
I'll wait for more concrete information, also known as reviews.
Post by: Neonivek on June 03, 2015, 02:03:36 pm
I understand, as I said, that New Vegas was an expansion pack originally and thus its plot couldn't be too important.
But given that this is Bethesda and "Skyrim was popular" expect another faction plot.
Post by: scrdest on June 03, 2015, 02:05:44 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on June 03, 2015, 02:06:42 pm
Post by: Neonivek on June 03, 2015, 02:07:44 pm
For example the VR section.
Post by: SealyStar on June 03, 2015, 02:08:22 pm
The FO3 story moment that everyone loves to hate is the ending where you have to sacrifice yourself in the radiation room even if you have super mutant/ghoul companions who could do it safely, because hero's destiny blah.
Post by: Neonivek on June 03, 2015, 02:09:53 pm
It actually had a consistant and ongoing story. You had to uncover relics of lost ages, follow your father across the world, as each and every location has its own story.
New Vegas? Well... once you find vegas the story is pretty much over. Chose your side... DA END! Want to explore these locations? Sorry nothing interesting here turn back!
So New Vegas didn't have much of a story to really have holes.
It is just weird to me that Fallout 3 is held as "bad" even though I consider it better than New Vegas by a long shot. There are preferences and then there is just this weirdness.
Post by: TripJack on June 03, 2015, 02:16:26 pm
Post by: TempAcc on June 03, 2015, 02:18:04 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 03, 2015, 02:19:52 pm
Post by: SealyStar on June 03, 2015, 02:20:05 pm
What stakes in fallout 3? If the player doesn't act presumably autumn and the enclave get the water purification thing and build a new united states. Why this would be so terrible is never really explained in the game other beyond superficial 'lel enclave is evil'. Autumn's plan sounds p good to me, where do I sign? Oh right bethesda is lazy and that isn't an optionWell, the idea is that the modified FEV will kill most of the human race because they're "mutants" and the Enclave is perfectly fine with this because they have a Naziesque obsession with "purity". The main problem with the concept is that it was directly ripped from Fallout 2.
Post by: Neonivek on June 03, 2015, 02:20:15 pm
What stakes in fallout 3? If the player doesn't act presumably autumn and the enclave get the water purification thing and build a new united states. Why this would be so terrible is never really explained in the game other beyond superficial 'lel enclave is evil'. Autumn's plan sounds p good to me, where do I sign?
The stakes in Fallout 3? How about for the first time an actual device that could detoxify huge areas of the United States allowing people to live radiation free outside of the small confined area of a GECT. No one would even have to rely on hard to acquire water chips or long torturous filtration systems for water.
Something that could even be replicated and used across the US.
This was big... it was HUGE if you understand the Fallout Universe.
I always had the idea that the Enclav didn't want it because it directly contradicted the parameters of their experiment.
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 03, 2015, 02:24:27 pm
Post by: Neonivek on June 03, 2015, 02:25:20 pm
The problem with the purifier (from the standpoints of everyone I've talked to who didn't like the game) is that the purifier is bullshit, it doesn't even need to exist as the only thing it can do would have already been done by the rain cycle. I'm okay with the purifier and the entire 'sacrifice' thing, my problem stems from the gaping holes in the continuity of the Capital Wasteland (not even going into the problems with the rest of the continuity, just the CW itself).
Rain is radioactive in the Fallout universe... and usually toxic.
So... what is the issue with the purifier?
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 03, 2015, 02:26:31 pm
Post by: Neonivek on June 03, 2015, 02:30:36 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 03, 2015, 02:31:49 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 03, 2015, 02:32:56 pm
Post by: TripJack on June 03, 2015, 02:43:57 pm
Well, technically the thing that makes the Enclave the badguys is that the big plan is to kill everything that isn't the enclave via an altered form of FEV (insert cartoonish maniacal laughter here), and most of the reason it's derided is that it's basically the exact same plan as in Fallout 2, only in the water instead of the air.
Well, the idea is that the modified FEV will kill most of the human race because they're "mutants" and the Enclave is perfectly fine with this because they have a Naziesque obsession with "purity". The main problem with the concept is that it was directly ripped from Fallout 2.that was the homicidal talking computer's plan, autumn and all the actual people in the enclave rejected this plan and left the homicidal talking computer to rot
of course why they just left instead of using the computer destruct code (which autumn had) is beyond me, plot holes are fun
The stakes in Fallout 3? How about for the first time an actual device that could detoxify huge areas of the United States allowing people to live radiation free outside of the small confined area of a GECT. No one would even have to rely on hard to acquire water chips or long torturous filtration systems for water.autumn and the enclave planned to use it to give people water and I assume probably would have replicated and used it across the US too
Something that could even be replicated and used across the US.
This was big... it was HUGE if you understand the Fallout Universe.
I always had the idea that the Enclav didn't want it because it directly contradicted the parameters of their experiment.
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 03, 2015, 02:46:37 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 03, 2015, 02:50:20 pm
Post by: Metalax on June 03, 2015, 02:52:05 pm
I've just re-watched the FO4 trailer for the umpteenth time, and I've noticed that pre-war flashbacks are more colourful than the rest of the game - at times they make Bioshock Infinite look like a CoD game. Since there were very old rumours that the main character is a cryogenically frozen Vault resident (http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Fallout-4-Boston-Setting-Fashioned-Hero-Revealed-By-Casting-Documents-61013.html), it occurred to me - maybe the main character was alive in 2077, and the whole scene are just their memories of the apocalypse. Compared to the post-war wastelands, the pre-War world would definitely look extremely shiny in their mind.
Heck, it's entirely possible that the game starts you off pre-war, and the tutorial section covers you getting to the Vault and then getting cryoed.
Post by: Krevsin on June 03, 2015, 02:53:08 pm
Also I am real salty the Outcasts didn't play a bigger role because holy crap their armor looks cool. I mean just look at this:
Spoiler: Pure badass (click to show/hide)
For people who prefer tackling more political issues, there is NV.
Now NV wasn't without its share of issues (Caesar's Legion was seriously cartoonishly evil in how they were presented, the locale wasn't one we normaly associate with a post-apocalypse (although they were closer to what the world might look like 200 years after the bombs fell than FO3 ever was)), but it did give a more interesting and nuanced story instead of the "hey the nazis want to use this power for evil" of FO3. You felt like your decisions impact the world on a larger, more complex scale than just simple "defend the people from the nazis", there was a feeling of being either a pawn or a big player in the grand political scheme of things (depending on the main quest line pursued), capable of inflicting a lot more long-term consequences than "the people can now drink water without fear of genocide" (you might think this is immensely relevant, but in the grand scheme of things it just gives the powers that be another reason to fight over). It felt big, but not in that "I am a badass, here's my power armor, here's my gun" kind of way, rather in a more "my choices here might have long-reaching consequences that might not be readily apparent". (although they probably won't have since I'm assuming that Bethesda will do the reasonable thing and pursue their east coast 'verse with their fallout games as it gives them far more creative freedom)
Then again, I probably wouldn't care if FO4 is about you trying to save a forest village of Ewoks from being exterminated by the evil Enclave Lumberjacks as long as there's an interesting world with lots of compelling sidequests and locations to explore and people to meet. Honestly, the only thing I really want is a 50s retrofuturistic open world RPG/FPS hybrid without any of that colour filters nonsense and I'll be happy.
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 03, 2015, 02:54:04 pm
...What, like...We'd have parts of the game where he's having flashbacks? Maybe an item or ability that controls it?There was a "Memory Den" shop in the trailer, so it's also possible.
Post by: Neonivek on June 03, 2015, 02:54:20 pm
All the villains in the universe are dead.
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 03, 2015, 02:57:02 pm
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 03, 2015, 02:58:10 pm
Who can even be the villain of this game when I think about it?The Institute, those Supermutants from Washington D.C., some other kind of threat residing in and around Boston...
All the villains in the universe are dead.
Post by: SealyStar on June 03, 2015, 02:58:16 pm
...What, like...We'd have parts of the game where he's having flashbacks? Maybe an item or ability that controls it?I thought of this, too. The trailer heavily emphasizing the events leading up to the war and while we all know how extravagant AAA game trailers can be, it seems wasteful to create so many pre-war Bwahston assets and not use them in the final game.
Also, I'm still bothered by the typeface on the Vault 111 door being different from the normal Vault number typeface. It seems like a stupid oversight so hopefully it actually isn't and there's some explanation (like, it's different from the other Vaults somehow).
And the cryogenic freezing thing makes sense, because assuming this takes place chronologically after the previous game (as all previous Fallouts have) it would be illogical to still have people in "normal" vaults at least two centuries after the war, and after Vaults like 101, specifically intended to stay closed for a long time, have opened.
Post by: TripJack on June 03, 2015, 02:58:23 pm
what starts off as an interesting story turns real cliche real fast ("you must defend the people of the wastes from the evil Enclavenazis who murdered your father and want to commit genocide!").made even better by the fact they didn't kill you father and except for the talking computer they don't want to commit genocide :D
Post by: Krevsin on June 03, 2015, 03:01:14 pm
Still, I submit on the whole "genocide" thing. You are in fact correct. They are still purity-obsessed racist bastards tho. ALSO WHERE IS MY CHANCE OF JOINING THEM DAMMIT.
Post by: TripJack on June 03, 2015, 03:04:17 pm
Post by: kaenneth on June 03, 2015, 03:14:06 pm
of course why they just left instead of using the computer destruct code (which autumn had) is beyond me, plot holes are fun
Maybe the whole base self-destructing wasn't desirable.
Post by: TripJack on June 03, 2015, 03:24:46 pm
Post by: scriver on June 03, 2015, 03:39:58 pm
I've just re-watched the FO4 trailer for the umpteenth time, and I've noticed that pre-war flashbacks are more colourful than the rest of the game - at times they make Bioshock Infinite look like a CoD game. Since there were very old rumours that the main character is a cryogenically frozen Vault resident (http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Fallout-4-Boston-Setting-Fashioned-Hero-Revealed-By-Casting-Documents-61013.html), it occurred to me - maybe the main character was alive in 2077, and all those scenes are just their memories of the apocalypse. Compared to the post-war wastelands, the pre-War world would definitely look extremely shiny in their mind.
But that wouldn't work with the obvious "no john you are the androids" plot twist.
Post by: FArgHalfnr on June 03, 2015, 03:41:47 pm
Honestly the only thing that would ruin the game for me is paid mods. I can completely ignore the main questline if I get to have nice survival mods or something else equally interesting. Since NV had a hardcore mode where you needed to eat and drink to survive I wouldn't be surprised to see something similar in FO4, especially since it has become apparent in the recent years that people REALLY love to see survival aspects in their games. I bet there will also be some kind of crafting system since everyone and their dog seems to be adding that to their games these days.
Post by: MasterFancyPants on June 03, 2015, 03:45:03 pm
IRL what have we accomplished in 200 years? Household electricity, flight, computers, medical science, the internet, cars, universal suffrage, etc, etc, et-fucking-c.
What have the people the capital wasteland done in 200 years? Built tin sheds.
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 03, 2015, 03:51:59 pm
Post by: Darkmere on June 03, 2015, 03:53:38 pm
The rest of the world looked like an amusement park ride... here's crazy survivalist town, and there's cannibal apocalypse town, and here's a bunch of people who live in shacks on a bridge with no farmland. Also, hey a giant bomb, let's put a city here and use it as a tourist attraction. If you don't like those, there's always miles of recycled subway tunnels for you to explore! (hint: it's all ghouls)
Vegas actually felt like a real place... there were farms, slums, gangs. Even the outliers had crops to at least feed themselves. No one was a goth cannibal vampyre, no city full of pre-teens that spits in the face of all logic, no fantasy luxury tower fortress with a nuclear briefcase run by a.... British fop? Comon...
My biggest problem with FO3 was that It took place 200 years after the war. 200. Years.
IRL what have we accomplished in 200 years? Household electricity, flight, computers, medical science, the internet, cars, universal suffrage, etc, etc, et-fucking-c.
What have the people the capital wasteland done in 200 years? Built tin sheds.
To be fair the whole point of a nuclear saturation bombing would have been to obliterate as much infrastructure as possible. Society can't spring forth from nothing, especially when the last working technology is controlled by delinquent fascists like the Brotherhood.
Post by: FArgHalfnr on June 03, 2015, 03:58:00 pm
Edit: Found a woman with a baby at the vault doors when the nuke exploded. Her haircut seemed to be the same as the mother. Maybe the same character? Or maybe they just reused the assets.
Post by: Neonivek on June 03, 2015, 03:59:46 pm
My biggest problem with FO3 was that It took place 200 years after the war. 200. Years.
IRL what have we accomplished in 200 years? Household electricity, flight, computers, medical science, the internet, cars, universal suffrage, etc, etc, et-fucking-c.
What have the people the capital wasteland done in 200 years? Built tin sheds.
Well lets see what they had in Fallout 3
1) A device that replaces the entire need for the GECK
2) Perfect human like androids
3) Caught up to the Enclave tech
4) The ability to grow perfectly healthy plants
5) Mass production of guns and weaponry
Here is the thing... Fallout is a rather "Survival centric" setting. People don't create they scavenge. They aren't a modern society they are an ancient cave dwelling society that happened upon a lot of guns.
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 03, 2015, 04:02:59 pm
Post by: Neonivek on June 03, 2015, 04:06:32 pm
Quote
It still amuses me that people seriously try to defend FO3 and it's teen fantasy empowerment plot with kindergarden-level good vs evil tripe. The only half-decent writing in it was The Pitt, which conveniently glossed over any ramifications of your resolution so I guess people didn't think about it?
I dunno... Play Bioshock Infinite. As long as a game is smarter then that game... then it gets a pass by me.
Quote
The rest of the world looked like an amusement park ride... here's crazy survivalist town, and there's cannibal apocalypse town, and here's a bunch of people who live in shacks on a bridge with no farmland. Also, hey a giant bomb, let's put a city here and use it as a tourist attraction.
That is kind of how the original worked anyhow. Then again it gave you more of a sense of scale.
Quote
Vegas actually felt like a real place... there were farms, slums, gangs. Even the outliers had crops to at least feed themselves. No one was a goth cannibal vampyre, no city full of pre-teens that spits in the face of all logic, no fantasy luxury tower fortress with a nuclear briefcase run by a.... British fop?
Yeah but in the end that is what made it a lot less interesting. There was no real reason to explore, nothing you really could find, no interesting quest lines hidden in the wastes. Even the vaults were boring except maybe 1 or 2 stand outs.
Also your wrong anyhow... Vegas has "Canibal Casino" and "Elvis Gang"... The actual Las Vegas itself is Disney Land.
There is a reason why "Old World Blues" is beloved as a DLC and that is because it isn't boring.
Post by: Arbinire on June 03, 2015, 04:13:02 pm
I'm cautiously optimistic with Fallout 4 though. I am digging the heavy use of primary colors, definitely kicking in the 50's retrofuturistic vibe into high gear. And there does seem to be hints at lots of customization. And as to antagonists, why do they have to be stereotypical evil? Settings like Fallout work best in the morally grey.
Post by: Neonivek on June 03, 2015, 04:14:50 pm
Quote
strontium-90, the isotope produced from a nuclear bomb, has a half-life of 29 years
By real science.
Remember we are going by 1950s science where radiation might "Never" dissipate.
Quote
I mean hell, if you decide to blow up Megaton, your biggest ramification is your dad being disappointed with you.
Well... what would there be? It isn't like Fallout often had consequences for depopulating entire cities.
Post by: Putnam on June 03, 2015, 04:19:24 pm
My biggest problem with FO3 was that It took place 200 years after the war. 200. Years.
IRL what have we accomplished in 200 years? Household electricity, flight, computers, medical science, the internet, cars, universal suffrage, etc, etc, et-fucking-c.
What have the people the capital wasteland done in 200 years? Built tin sheds.
To be fair the whole point of a nuclear saturation bombing would have been to obliterate as much infrastructure as possible. Society can't spring forth from nothing, especially when the last working technology is controlled by delinquent fascists like the Brotherhood.
...Which doesn't apply in Fallout 3, since they made the Brotherhood of Steel generic good guys in that, thus breaking any semblance of sense the setting could've had.
Post by: Neonivek on June 03, 2015, 04:21:57 pm
Where Fallout 3 is "Jovial and Plotholish" New Vegas is "Boring and Inconsistent"
I'll take exciting but childish over boring but mature any day. New Vegas was saved by its DLC.
As for this game it looks... Boring... so far.
Post by: BigD145 on June 03, 2015, 04:26:38 pm
Post by: Neonivek on June 03, 2015, 04:27:44 pm
Dogmeat looks mighty fine.
For a 200 year old dog...
He seems to be immortal.
Post by: BigD145 on June 03, 2015, 04:34:02 pm
Dogmeat looks mighty fine.
For a 200 year old dog...
He seems to be immortal.
Quite a few characters throughout the games are.
Post by: Fniff on June 03, 2015, 04:35:47 pm
Neither does Dogmeat.
Post by: BigD145 on June 03, 2015, 04:41:46 pm
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 03, 2015, 04:50:28 pm
I liked that NV established that civilization was sort of lighting up again, and I'd like to see some more major factions beyond the Brotherhood and the Institute in Boston. Then again, maybe the ruins of big cities are less suitable for the development of civilization and the only reason the NCR and the Legion happened in the first place was that they started in a pretty rural setting. Maybe cities are just better suited to small concentrations of isolationists like the Brotherhood or the Institute.
Also, please make it a bit more morally grey. The BoS aren't super bad dudes, but they aren't shining white knights either. No one is, especially not in a setting like this. NV definitely had defined moral lines, but it never seemed like the NCR were perfect saviors. The Legion was pretty obviously evil, but at least they promised stability, and they weren't a whole lot worse than total anarchy, so at least they weren't totally stupid.
So yeah. Hype. Hyyyyype.
Post by: Nick K on June 03, 2015, 04:54:50 pm
The rest of the world looked like an amusement park ride... here's crazy survivalist town, and there's cannibal apocalypse town, and here's a bunch of people who live in shacks on a bridge with no farmland. Also, hey a giant bomb, let's put a city here and use it as a tourist attraction. If you don't like those, there's always miles of recycled subway tunnels for you to explore! (hint: it's all ghouls)
If you thought that was bad in FO3, you definitely should steer clear of Fallout 2. That game had things like a 1920s-style gangster town complete with thugs armed with tommy-guns and the martial-arts town with a handwaved backstory (it was apparently built by a Chinese submarine crew in the very country they'd just had a nuclear war with) whose whole purpose in the game seemed to be so the player could compete in a martial-arts tournament.
It was a great game for its day, but if you want a consistent setting then Fallout 1 is the game for you.
Post by: Jarvis on June 03, 2015, 05:02:10 pm
If you thought that was bad in FO3, you definitely should steer clear of Fallout 2. That game had things like a 1920s-style gangster town complete with thugs armed with tommy-guns and the martial-arts town with a handwaved backstory (it was apparently built by a Chinese submarine crew in the very country they'd just had a nuclear war with) whose whole purpose in the game seemed to be so the player could compete in a martial-arts tournament.I remember hearing that all the areas in Fallout 2 were done by different teams hence why they were all so disjointed with each other. Also, good God, the pop culture references in that game were out of control.
It was a great game for its day, but if you want a consistent setting then Fallout 1 is the game for you.
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 03, 2015, 05:25:54 pm
...unless the main character was an android back in 2077. You know, secret pre-War experiments.I've just re-watched the FO4 trailer for the umpteenth time, and I've noticed that pre-war flashbacks are more colourful than the rest of the game - at times they make Bioshock Infinite look like a CoD game. Since there were very old rumours that the main character is a cryogenically frozen Vault resident (http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Fallout-4-Boston-Setting-Fashioned-Hero-Revealed-By-Casting-Documents-61013.html), it occurred to me - maybe the main character was alive in 2077, and all those scenes are just their memories of the apocalypse. Compared to the post-war wastelands, the pre-War world would definitely look extremely shiny in their mind.
But that wouldn't work with the obvious "no john you are the androids" plot twist.
Also, here's another stupid storyline idea - the arriving vertibirds and the giant zeppelin belong to the Brotherhood of Steel, DC or Midwest BOS, doesn't matter. They plan to invade Boston and seize control of the Institute and its tech. The game is focused on their war, you can choose your side.
With the Raven Rock and Adams AFB out of commission, there shouldn't be more Enclave in the area, unless Bethesda pulls out another secret Enclave base from their collective ass.
Post by: Nick K on June 03, 2015, 05:29:33 pm
I remember hearing that all the areas in Fallout 2 were done by different teams hence why they were all so disjointed with each other.
Ah, that's interesting. It does explain a lot.
Post by: scriver on June 03, 2015, 06:47:51 pm
Here is the thing... Fallout is a rather "Survival centric" setting. People don't create they scavenge. They aren't a modern society they are an ancient cave dwelling society that happened upon a lot of guns.
It's not, really. That wasn't the case even in Fallout 1, let alone 2.
Post by: TempAcc on June 03, 2015, 07:22:35 pm
Post by: Neonivek on June 03, 2015, 07:27:15 pm
People do not make the vast majority of the things you got in Fallout 1 and 2... they were all things that have been scavenged.
Post by: SealyStar on June 03, 2015, 07:32:29 pm
At any rate, I don't think Neonivek is talking about survival mechanics but the atmosphere and design of the games. 1 and 3 are both wrecked-up wastelands, 2 is mostly wasteland in the north but more civilized in the south, and NV shows a fairly developed frontier society and feels more like an anachronistic Old West with lasers and mutants than a Mad Max wasteland.
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 03, 2015, 07:55:41 pm
Post by: Putnam on June 03, 2015, 07:58:58 pm
If the whole thing about there not being a female PC is true
i really doubt that
Post by: Rakonas on June 03, 2015, 08:05:40 pm
If the whole thing about there not being a female PC is true, why does the story necessitate it? I'd be interested in knowing what element of the plot requires the player to be a man. If it's because the PC has a wife or something, can't they just switch character models around so they're a husband instead? Hell, you might not even need that, just make the female PC gay. Maybe despite the fact that the 21st century in the Fallout universe was basically just the 50s extended over seven decades, social attitudes shifted away from the conservative views of the 50s separate of the culture itself. To the best of my knowledge there's never any overt indication of racism or homophobia from before the war, just the typical red scare sinophobia.
I heard something about the protagonist being voiced. Not happy about that if it's everything ie: hamstrung dialogue in order to comply with voiceover needs.
I'm a bit disappointed by the graphics in the trailer... looks just like fallout 3. The city looks big though.
Hype either way.
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 03, 2015, 08:06:02 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on June 03, 2015, 08:11:42 pm
Post by: Putnam on June 03, 2015, 08:20:00 pm
I'm a bit disappointed by the graphics in the trailer... looks just like fallout 3.
Did we play the same Fallout 3? It had two colors: greenish gray and greenish black. Fallout 4 actually has a range.
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 03, 2015, 08:21:24 pm
I don't know how people are translating one line of dialogue in a teaser trailer to "OMG PC is male-only and voiced!"
I'm pretty sure it comes from somewhere other than the trailer. Someone on Reddit about a year ago said that they had seen Fallout 4 in production, and they proceeded to make claims that have so far turned out to be fairly accurate. They also said that the PC could only be male due to story reasons. Of course they still could have been lying, but they made some pretty accurate predictions from what we've seen so far.
Post by: Rakonas on June 03, 2015, 08:28:29 pm
More colorful I guess, but the textures look the same. Same level of detail.I'm a bit disappointed by the graphics in the trailer... looks just like fallout 3.
Did we play the same Fallout 3? It had two colors: greenish gray and greenish black. Fallout 4 actually has a range.
Here's the year old 'leak' which is looking potentially true https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/28v2dn/i_played_fallout_4/
Post by: Iceblaster on June 03, 2015, 08:56:34 pm
More colorful I guess, but the textures look the same. Same level of detail.I'm a bit disappointed by the graphics in the trailer... looks just like fallout 3.
Did we play the same Fallout 3? It had two colors: greenish gray and greenish black. Fallout 4 actually has a range.
Here's the year old 'leak' which is looking potentially true https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/28v2dn/i_played_fallout_4/
I think it's more like 'a guy who got fired who worked on the game' but nothing more. Anything he said will be taken seriously when ever single thing he said happens.
I don't trust video game leaks.
Post by: Putnam on June 03, 2015, 08:58:21 pm
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This version uses a brand new engine built from the ground up to take advantage of the power of next gen systems.
Almost surely false
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Fallout 4 will also be available on Playstation 3 and Xbox 360.... Everything will be the same in this version as the advanced version, except for the graphics, gameplay and some additional features.
"everything will be the same except everything will be different"
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Unlike Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas, you can only play as a man. This is due to the storyline requiring it. However, after the main story is over, you can have a gender change.
?????
Quote
Additionally, full support for Trophies/Achievements are present on all console versions, and full steamworks support is present for the PC version.
and water is wet
Quote
June 2015 - Fallout 4 reveal at E3, trailer only
already wrong
Post by: Rakonas on June 03, 2015, 09:06:35 pm
snip
First one, how is it surely false that they aren't using the Fallout 3/NV engine anymore?
Second, I think it's clarifying that it's the same story just dumbed down and pointless.
Third, she said you have a wife, presumably there's some story reason why you aren't a lesbian.
Fourth, New Vegas does not have steam workshop support, only nexus and mod managers.
Fifth, Bethesda clearly is premiering it at E3, they've just released the trailer early. Not the kind of decision needed to be finalized 11 months ago.
As it stands there's nothing to disprove it.
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 03, 2015, 09:10:19 pm
I'm wondering now, though, whether there is any mention of racism or homophobia in the Fallout series (beyond some of the stuff said about the Legion, that seemed like it was just childish slander more than anything). I think there's some sexism, especially in the Legion, but I can't seem to remember anyone ever commenting on someones race or sexuality in a negative way.
Post by: Iceblaster on June 03, 2015, 09:12:22 pm
That said, it's nowhere near confirmed, either.
I'm wondering now, though, whether there is any mention of racism or homophobia in the Fallout series (beyond some of the stuff said about the Legion, that seemed like it was just childish slander more than anything). I think there's some sexism, especially in the Legion, but I can't seem to remember anyone ever commenting on someones race or sexuality in a negative way.
Major Knight in New Vegas.
If you're male and have 'confirmed bachelor', he'll say you shouldn't get too friendly because 'this isn't the republic.'
IIRC, he mentions the legion are more accepting of 'friends', but the Mojave is less so.
Maybe I'm remembering wrong.
EDIT: Also he's one of the only male homosexual character :v
Got him and Arcade and only one can companion :v
Post by: Putnam on June 03, 2015, 09:21:51 pm
snip
First one, how is it surely false that they aren't using the Fallout 3/NV engine anymore?
I didn't say anything even remotely resembling that. I meant that it's pretty clearly built on Skyrim's engine, rather than an entirely new engine that they said.
Fourth, New Vegas does not have steam workshop support, only nexus and mod managers.
Skyrim is the game you should be comparing to. It is BGS's most recent release. New Vegas and 3 should not be taken into consideration for release info like that.
Post by: BigD145 on June 03, 2015, 09:41:46 pm
Post by: Rakonas on June 03, 2015, 10:06:17 pm
snip
First one, how is it surely false that they aren't using the Fallout 3/NV engine anymore?
I didn't say anything even remotely resembling that. I meant that it's pretty clearly built on Skyrim's engine, rather than an entirely new engine that they said.Fourth, New Vegas does not have steam workshop support, only nexus and mod managers.
Skyrim is the game you should be comparing to. It is BGS's most recent release. New Vegas and 3 should not be taken into consideration for release info like that.
Generally when people list the features of a sequel, they use the previous game in the series as a benchmark, not the most recent game by the same developer. This is how I read it.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 03, 2015, 10:11:08 pm
How...snip
First one, how is it surely false that they aren't using the Fallout 3/NV engine anymore?
Second, I think it's clarifying that it's the same story just dumbed down and pointless.
Third, she said you have a wife, presumably there's some story reason why you aren't a lesbian.
Fourth, New Vegas does not have steam workshop support, only nexus and mod managers.
Fifth, Bethesda clearly is premiering it at E3, they've just released the trailer early. Not the kind of decision needed to be finalized 11 months ago.
As it stands there's nothing to disprove it.
How is number two even close to talking about the story?!
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 03, 2015, 10:12:53 pm
DOG CONFIRMED
Post by: SealyStar on June 03, 2015, 10:46:55 pm
That said, it's nowhere near confirmed, either.Another example of homophobia besides what Iceblaster said: Veronica talks about how Father Elijah broke up her relationship with another woman in the BoS because the Brotherhood needed everyone to have straight person sex and make babies because they refused to let anyone else join. Or something like that.
I'm wondering now, though, whether there is any mention of racism or homophobia in the Fallout series (beyond some of the stuff said about the Legion, that seemed like it was just childish slander more than anything). I think there's some sexism, especially in the Legion, but I can't seem to remember anyone ever commenting on someones race or sexuality in a negative way.
Anyway, that's besides the point of my main message: why you shouldn't trust that Reddit post. People are taking it on its word about the "you can only be a dude" thing because they say its other claims are accurate. Well, I'm saying they aren't - and before I go on, I'll give the obvious disclaimer that the amount of official information we have is very limited and I'm taking a fair few educated guesses, and it may turn out that "Sandra Reed" (hereafter known as "Reed") is 100% right. But probably not.
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I worked on, and played, Fallout 4. Yes, I did.While it's entirely possible Reed worked on Fallout 4, I'm curious about the playing part because I don't think it would have been in a particularly finished state a year ago and the information given would suggest an almost-finished game.
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At the beginning of the game, you create your character (You can only be a male in the main story), and afterward, you start the game with a blast. After the blast, you awake to see the building you are standing inside blown apart and your wife, Lydia, dead. Robots and Androids are storming the place, killing and kidnapping the people inside. You, known as "The Officer", must escape and get revenge.The trailer suggests your character comes out of a Vault (111), not inside a building being attacked by robots. The intro Reed describes has no place for a Vault in it. As for the "Cryo Hypothesis" that the PC is a survivor from before the war who later emerges from Vault 111, there is little chance the above scene could reasonably happen before the war. First, androids are implied to be a post-war invention. Second, "escaping and getting revenge" doesn't suggest "hide in bunker from impending nuclear war" to me; it suggests "The Officer" running off into the wasteland. I consider this the second-strongest counterpoint, after the engine one below.
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LOCATION: Fallout 4 is set in and around Boston and the surrounding countryside.While this seems to fit the information from the trailer, keep in mind that the concept of Fallout 4 being in Boston was a deeply ingrained meme among Fallout fans long before anything from Bethesda was leaked (See: Survivor 2299). This could easily be either a case of telling people what they expect to hear, or simply a stopped clock.
The downtown area is entirely controlled by "The Institute", a group of techies and scholars, as well as researchers, who devote their lives to technology. The countryside area is a "Wasteland" with small towns and settlements, as well as vaults here and there.
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Logan International Airport is taken over by the Brotherhood of steel, who are there trying to control the technology, and are currently waging a war against the institute, as they both have disagreements as to who should be in control of the technology in the area.Nothing in the trailer suggests an all-out Brotherhood-Institute war and since this would presumably be a major (if not the main) plot I doubt they would leave it out.
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The map of Fallout 4 is about 3 times the size of Skyrim. The reason for this is to make a much more realistic and interactive world, that players can always find new things, even if they have played it for years after release.I question this first purely out of my expectations for corporate greed. Why make a bigger world when you could sell more areas as DLC? That said, it sounds awesome - too awesome to be realistic, in my mind. I realize this is my weakest point, of course.
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The Institute returns from Fallout 3, and is headed by a man named Thomas Littleton. They are the primary antagonists of the game, and control most of Boston Downtown. Their patrols in Downtown Boston are the counterpart in this game to the Super Mutants in Downtown DC in Fallout 3.The trailer doesn't show any "Institute patrols", nor does it indicate anything evil about them. Pointing out that raiders are back seems too obvious for a Fallout game to point out as a feature or treat as any sort of "leak".
...
Raiders return too.
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This version uses a brand new engine built from the ground up to take advantage of the power of next gen systems. Absolutely everything is new, and no assets or scrips are being used from Fallout 3/NV or Skyrim.The engine used in the trailer appears quite similar to Skyrim's Creation Engine, and even if it is incrementally different it is almost certainly not "built from the ground up" or completely new. If it is a brand new engine, it sure as hell isn't "next gen". I would dare say this is the biggest hole in Reed's claim based on available information.
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Fallout 4 will also be available on Playstation 3 and Xbox 360. This version is also being developed by Bethesda Game Studios, but will release a year after the advanced version.The site does not mention PS3 or 360 versions, and making them doesn't make a lot of economic sense because of how old the old gen consoles will be by the time of the games release; the potential sales don't seem like enough to justify a port to a completely different engine (and it probably isn't even, see previous point), particularly one done in-house by Bethesda rather than focusing on DLC or their next game (TES 6, hopefully).
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Also, players of the PS3/360 version will be pleased to know that Fallout 4 will be able to import your Fallout 3 save, and adapt choices you made from that game for Fallout 4. This means that some additional characters could pop up, depending on if you killed them or not in Fallout 3. Also, some story references from Fallout 3 will be mentioned. Did the BOS save the capitol wasteland? Or did it fall? Did Sarah turn on the purifier and die? Or did the lone wanderer do it? It might get mentioned depending on your choices!Assuming old gen versions were made, I doubt they would have more features than new gen, especially given that Reed claimed elsewhere that the opposite would be true. Also, they don't indicate the possibility of such a system being on the PC version if it were implemented.
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(Although by my experience, it actually looked and played more like the PS2/Xbox Fallout: Brotherhood of steel.)Even bringing up PoS (sic) on a Fallout board seems like blatant bait.
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Additionally, full support for Trophies/Achievements are present on all console versions, and full steamworks support is present for the PC version.Much like raiders, these seem so obvious that I don't see why someone would point them out as features.
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1. June 2015 - Fallout 4 reveal at E3, trailer onlyThe Fallout 4 reveal preceded E3 by about two weeks, including the trailer. They can't just show a "trailer only" at E3 now because we've already seen the trailer.
2. July 2015 - First gameplay trailers
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5. November 2015 - First DLCOne of the commenters on the Reddit thread itself inspired this point. The DLC timeline is suspect in a) how carefully it's planned out, and b) how short it is - Fallout 3's last DLC came out 10 months after the game itself, while the Skyrim DLC schedule took 15 months to complete. Since this game is supposed to be bigger and better than both, why is its DLC schedule only 6 months long?
6. December 2015 - Second DLC, as well as PS3/360 version release
7. January 2016 - Third DLC
8. March 2016 - Forth DLC
9. April 2016 - Fifth and Final DLC
And inspired by that same comment but applying to the post as a whole: Why would Bethesda let so much insider business information into the hands of a single grunt-tier employee who had worked there less than a month?
Post by: Putnam on June 03, 2015, 11:00:17 pm
snip
First one, how is it surely false that they aren't using the Fallout 3/NV engine anymore?
I didn't say anything even remotely resembling that. I meant that it's pretty clearly built on Skyrim's engine, rather than an entirely new engine that they said.Fourth, New Vegas does not have steam workshop support, only nexus and mod managers.
Skyrim is the game you should be comparing to. It is BGS's most recent release. New Vegas and 3 should not be taken into consideration for release info like that.
Generally when people list the features of a sequel, they use the previous game in the series as a benchmark, not the most recent game by the same developer. This is how I read it.
Considering that Fallout 3 was very famously Oblivion with guns, I'd say that most people would probably think about 4 as Skyrim with guns instead of more like New Vegas 2 or whatever.
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 03, 2015, 11:01:11 pm
and also you can BE A DOG
Post by: SealyStar on June 03, 2015, 11:08:20 pm
Someone on Reddit noticed the You're SPECIAL (https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/38dnnh/fallout_4_trailer_your_special_book_spotted/) book from Fallout 3 in the ruined house at the beginning. This could support a "Child Cryo Hypothesis" (rather than the Reed-inspired "Male-only Cryo Hypothesis") where the player character is not one of the parents (specifically, the dad) but the baby, having grown up but then not aged somehow within Vault 111.
Post by: Majestic7 on June 04, 2015, 12:51:24 am
Post by: Krevsin on June 04, 2015, 01:02:07 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on June 04, 2015, 04:13:14 am
You guys know I was talking about the setting right? Not game mechanics.
People do not make the vast majority of the things you got in Fallout 1 and 2... they were all things that have been scavenged.
I wasn't talking about mechanics either. FO1 does take place in the devastated wasteland, but it clearly shows that humanity is picking up and rebuilding. FO2 even more so.
Post by: Neonivek on June 04, 2015, 05:04:15 am
It is some sort of produced currency right? :P
Post by: Krevsin on June 04, 2015, 05:12:54 am
Well then tell me... What is the currency of Fallout 1 and 2? :PFallout 2 had actual money (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/$1_NCR), the NCR golden dollar. You could find a stash of bottle caps in some random encounter if I remember correctly, but they were useless as currency.
It is some sort of produced currency right? :P
Only Fallout 1 and 3 (and NV) had bottle caps (though NV also had factional currency, the NCR paper dollar and the legion denarius, along with chips in the casinos). The reason why in NV caps were primarily used was again entirely boring and terrestrial in that the NCR dollar has fallen upon some inflation and that the majority of traders (namely, Crimson Caravan and Fargo traders) operating outside the NCR have fallen back to the more stable currency. (though I suspect it has more to do with NV using FO3's engine and this being the explanation given to us)
Post by: Harry Baldman on June 04, 2015, 05:15:38 am
Well then tell me... What is the currency of Fallout 1 and 2? :P
It is some sort of produced currency right? :P
Bottlecaps in 1, NCR dollars in 2. The latter is indeed very much produced. Might even be gold coins from Redding (notes aren't seen in 2 as far as I can tell), while in New Vegas they already appear to have banknotes.
EDIT: Dang it, ninja'd.
Post by: Catastrophic lolcats on June 04, 2015, 05:16:55 am
Also I just can't get excited about a Bethesda game. I hated Fallout 3, Skyrim and Dishonoured. I don't want any game to be bad but I just can't not be cynical with Fallout 4. It could turn out that the game isn't a level-scaled incoherent theme park with gameplay that feels like a previous title with a new coat of paint- but I just don't see that happening.
Post by: Harry Baldman on June 04, 2015, 06:29:27 am
As a side note, I do hope they have a set protagonist, given that the RP value in a Bethesda game is pretty much nil anyway aside from really broad strokes. Might as well give the players something other than a murderous person-shaped void that rolled out of a forgotten corner of the world to play around with. Especially if it's a pre-war guy with a semblance of personality - I'm not exactly picky about what that personality might be, though I'd hope for hilariously out-of-touch propaganda victim in the optimal case, or maybe the archetypal Fifties Dad (which is even better). Now that's something I can get hyped about.
EDIT: Damn, I am getting hyped about it. I can see it now, a manly paragon of pre-war virtue and WASPitude traveling amidst the savages of the modern world, dispensing Ward Cleaver-style frontier justice to all he deems inappropriate and wrong, and exactly how deluded that justice is depends on the players themselves. Through cleverly-written dialogue choices you could make sure that, no matter what he's doing at any given moment, the Fifties Dad always has some pithy lesson to provide to the unenlightened wastelanders. Imagine that! Dialogue choices with character! I love those!
And, once the character becomes that much less of a self-insert, you have much more incentive to explore other options - maybe you want bad things to happen to Fifties Dad. Maybe his continued survival is not in your interest. Maybe it's that much more amusing to sell innocent people into slavery if he's got a fun line to say about it and you can look at it from a detached perspective. An evil path with purpose and meaning, mayhap? Something never before seen in a Fallout game, yet possibly keeping with most if not all of its themes!
Post by: Zangi on June 04, 2015, 07:27:11 am
Maybe if it was a new IP or something that does not follow the numbering scheme/name of the sandbox series. Like Fallout: New Hope
Post by: Wimopy on June 04, 2015, 09:16:55 am
Vault 111 was a cryo-only vault, but robotised.
Thing is, I dunno why a decryoed guy would do as a plot, but it could be that the Brotherhood open his chamber after the vault malfunctioned and he and his dog are the only survivors.
He/guy should be considered swappable for she/gal or other versions.
Post by: MasterFancyPants on June 04, 2015, 12:27:01 pm
Well then tell me... What is the currency of Fallout 1 and 2? :P
It is some sort of produced currency right? :P
Fallout is set 70 years after the war, not 200, when people are first starting to exit the vaults. Shady Sands is totally built from the ground-up and farms, no scavenging. The Hub is a fledgling trading empire.
Currency in Fallout 2 is minted coinage. In fact you can find a bag full of caps in FO2, the description reads: "These are worthless bottle caps. You've heard that at one time they were used as money, though you suspect its only a story."
Post by: nenjin on June 04, 2015, 12:41:16 pm
Post by: Teneb on June 04, 2015, 12:45:22 pm
Preordering a game with no announced release date. Mmmmmm no.It's also ridiculously expensive, at least for me, at R$249.00 which at the moment converts roughly to US$79.55. Not even Elite: Dangerous is that expensive.
Post by: FArgHalfnr on June 04, 2015, 12:58:29 pm
Preordering a game at all.
FTFY. The only exception I ever made was for The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth, but that was only because it was the remake of a game I already knew I would enjoy made by one of the few people in the industry I trust. I don't trust bethesda enough to give them my money for the promise of a game, maybe worth the price, at some point in the future. If it's that expensive I might even completely skip it, or wait for a massive sale. 80$ Is way too much for a game, regardless of the quality IMO.
The only other game I remember seeing at this price is the latest simcity, and that was the "deluxe" version.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 04, 2015, 01:01:27 pm
Post by: Jarvis on June 04, 2015, 01:33:53 pm
Why?
Post by: Zangi on June 04, 2015, 01:35:48 pm
>Pre-ordering a game we know next to nothing aboutHype.
Why?
Post by: Cthulufaic on June 04, 2015, 01:52:12 pm
Besides its not like they can mess up Fallout that badly.>Pre-ordering a game we know next to nothing aboutHype.
Why?
Unless they have already and my adolescent brain has not been exposed to such trauma.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 04, 2015, 01:54:46 pm
Post by: nenjin on June 04, 2015, 02:22:13 pm
Post by: quamzie on June 04, 2015, 02:38:49 pm
Post by: FArgHalfnr on June 04, 2015, 03:12:16 pm
Post by: Nick K on June 04, 2015, 03:13:03 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 04, 2015, 03:15:06 pm
Aye, only game I've ever preordered was Starbound literally two days before it launched.Preordering a game at all.
FTFY. The only exception I ever made was for The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth, but that was only because it was the remake of a game I already knew I would enjoy made by one of the few people in the industry I trust. I don't trust bethesda enough to give them my money for the promise of a game, maybe worth the price, at some point in the future. If it's that expensive I might even completely skip it, or wait for a massive sale. 80$ Is way too much for a game, regardless of the quality IMO.
The only other game I remember seeing at this price is the latest simcity, and that was the "deluxe" version.
Anyway, have they released any more word about this? As in, was the 'only male' thing confirmed?
Also, AT LEAST WE SAW GREEN, RIGHT
I vaguely remember hearing that making a game happen in new-york would be impossible because the whole place got obliterated by nukes or something according to canon. It would make sense that new-york would be a primary target for nukes, considering it's the biggest city.What I never got is how Washington DC isn't a smoking crater. I mean, New Vegas had a reason-Mr. House is a smart motherfucker.
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 04, 2015, 03:15:08 pm
I vaguely remember hearing that making a game happen in new-york would be impossible because the whole place got obliterated by nukes or something according to canon. It would make sense that new-york would be a primary target for nukes, considering it's the biggest city.
Along with basically all of Europe and central Asia.
Post by: Teneb on June 04, 2015, 03:17:31 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 04, 2015, 03:18:11 pm
AND YET DC IS TOTALLY FINE
YES
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on June 04, 2015, 03:21:26 pm
Post by: Teneb on June 04, 2015, 03:25:47 pm
Post by: Neonivek on June 04, 2015, 03:27:55 pm
Since the game is supposed to be a hyper charged 1950s culture with all the terrible science and stupidity that was involved in this time period (It is why there is nuclear material in Nuka-cola)
So... lets put this game in 1950s Japan with all the irrationalities, poor science, and outright stupidity that existed back then... and present it to a culture (Americans) who have no knowledge outside their closed bubble of the USA.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 04, 2015, 03:28:46 pm
Im pretty sure it's all in america because, one thats where the vaults are, two fallout somewhat follows the same family in a rather loose way, three NCR, BOS, Enclave, Legion, and all the other already fleshed out factions and areas instead of a area where we know nothing about.BUT
INNOVATION D:
And I still have massive trouble finding that DC is standing and New Bloody York isn't. Or, you know. Europe.
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 04, 2015, 03:33:31 pm
Post by: FArgHalfnr on June 04, 2015, 03:37:16 pm
And also yeah, it's weird that there's anything left of DC. Maybe they focused their anti-nuke thingy to protect the place? It wouldn't make much sense to save the capital and let the biggest population center undefended. There's also the fact that Vegas was almost entirely shielded from the nukes. It would be hard to believe that a single rich guy would have more defensive resources than the entire US military.
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 04, 2015, 03:38:43 pm
Post by: Fniff on June 04, 2015, 03:41:27 pm
Post by: Teneb on June 04, 2015, 03:43:13 pm
Vegas doesn't have anything to destroy, no nukes were targeted at it.There were nukes shot at vegas, just not a lot and House managed to intercept some before they could go off. That's part of the main reason behind the game's plot.
I imagine the reasoning for not setting anything outside of America is... Well, there isn't much to go on in the lore and if you just make up all the details you might as well create a new franchise since most people would be more curious as to what happens in the mainland US, since that's where all the plot is.I'm surprised there haven't been any big projects (or attempts at them) to make a mod for an area outside the US.
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 04, 2015, 03:44:07 pm
Post by: FArgHalfnr on June 04, 2015, 03:44:40 pm
Vegas doesn't have anything to destroy, no nukes were targeted at it. Compare to Los Angeles (Boneyard) in Fallout 1. As for DC, that's part of my gripe at Bethesdas take on the lore. there should be NOTHING standing on the US East Coast.
They keep mentioning in NV that most of the nukes were stopped, and that if they had the platinum chip your character was supposed to deliver back then, they would have managed to block all of them. There were definitively nukes targeting the place.
Edit: Ninja'ed
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 04, 2015, 03:45:34 pm
Post by: Fniff on June 04, 2015, 03:46:03 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 04, 2015, 03:47:49 pm
Post by: Teneb on June 04, 2015, 03:48:16 pm
If you're talking about lonesome road or one of the other DLCs, no it wasn't. It was additional data, that I still haven't seen (due to a ridiculous number of things) and cannot be called a major part of the plot.No. House tells you this himself, at least in his branch of the story.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 04, 2015, 03:48:50 pm
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 04, 2015, 03:49:12 pm
I've never heard anything in NV mention swatting down nukes. Just lots of blather about how great House is.Mr. House himself (and his obituary if you kill him) state that his automatic defence systems shot down most of the nukes aimed at Vegas.
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 04, 2015, 03:52:38 pm
Maybe the lot of you should realize that some of us don't communicate with megalomaniacs and just kill them.
Post by: Neonivek on June 04, 2015, 03:54:03 pm
Okay, just verified that, but it stinks of Houses tendency to self aggrandize, there is nothing in Vegas worth nuking.
No he is a Mary Sue fanfiction character added to the game :P
He exaggerates nothing :P
Post by: Teneb on June 04, 2015, 03:56:40 pm
Okay, just verified that, but it stinks of Houses tendency to self aggrandize, there is nothing in Vegas worth nuking.Vegas itself is a big cultural centre. A lot of rich people, some with a lot of influence, tend to be in Vegas. Nuke it, and you cause some serious trouble. There was also House himself, who, egocentric self-aggrandizing aside, was a genius when it came to robotics. Considering he could've been capable of shooting down all nukes, the chinese could've rated him pretty high on the "Nuke This" list.
In the end though, it doesn't really matter why, only that it did happen.
Post by: Neonivek on June 04, 2015, 03:58:56 pm
Okay, just verified that, but it stinks of Houses tendency to self aggrandize, there is nothing in Vegas worth nuking.Vegas itself is a big cultural centre. A lot of rich people, some with a lot of influence, tend to be in Vegas. Nuke it, and you cause some serious trouble. There was also House himself, who, egocentric self-aggrandizing aside, was a genius when it came to robotics. Considering he could've been capable of shooting down all nukes, the chinese could've rated him pretty high on the "Nuke This" list.
In the end though, it doesn't really matter why, only that it did happen.
In the 1950s though? I thought it didn't start becoming important until like... the 60s
Post by: Shadowlord on June 04, 2015, 04:00:46 pm
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 04, 2015, 04:01:55 pm
Okay, just verified that, but it stinks of Houses tendency to self aggrandize, there is nothing in Vegas worth nuking.
Hoover Dam, the airfields of Searchlight, McCarran Intl, Nellis AFB, Black Mountain (actually nuked - there's a giant radioactive crater right in the middle of Tabitha's supermutant settlement)...
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 04, 2015, 04:03:19 pm
Post by: Jarvis on June 04, 2015, 04:06:48 pm
In the 1950s though? I thought it didn't start becoming important until like... the 60sThe Great War happened in 2077, though. Vegas had probably changed a lot since then.
Post by: Neonivek on June 04, 2015, 04:08:07 pm
In the 1950s though? I thought it didn't start becoming important until like... the 60sThe Great War happened in 2077, though. Vegas had probably changed a lot since then.
Yes but remember that the Fallout series is a game where the 1950s stretched on.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 04, 2015, 04:11:54 pm
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 04, 2015, 04:12:16 pm
All not Vegas. Those are separate and distinct targets from Vegas. Vegas is a city, not a region. Also, even Russia and China know there is no point in trying to nuke Hoover, the damned thing would take a fifty megaton device to the face and smile at you.McCarran International Airport is well inside Las Vegas city limits.
Also, I almost forgot - in the Fallout universe, Las Vegas housed the main headquarters of REPCONN, the company specialized in producing rockets and missiles for the American war effort. I'm not even talking about their research facility in the area.
Post by: Culise on June 04, 2015, 04:13:20 pm
Don't forget RobCo Industries, one of the States' largest robotics companies, and REPCONN Aerospace's primary headquarters and testing sites in the region. If someone leaked the true nature of the related Helios and Archimedes projects, then that might have added even more impetus as a viable target. Otherwise, I'd say Las Vegas likely qualified as a secondary target, something to lob a few nukes at to disrupt any reconstruction, but not something worth completely glassing. Given the size of historical nuclear arsenals, however, a few extra nukes here and there were probably perfectly fine. It's probably fortunate for House as well; his system held up well enough, but against a total strike, it probably would have been overwhelmed.Okay, just verified that, but it stinks of Houses tendency to self aggrandize, there is nothing in Vegas worth nuking.
Hoover Dam, the airfields of Searchlight, McCarran Intl, Nellis AFB, Black Mountain (actually nuked - there's a giant radioactive crater right in the middle of Tabitha's supermutant settlement)...
All not Vegas. Those are separate and distinct targets from Vegas. Vegas is a city, not a region. Also, even Russia and China know there is no point in trying to nuke Hoover, the damned thing would take a fifty megaton device to the face and smile at you.Not with a groundburst, and you can bet that they tailor the attack to the target instead of adopting a one-size-fits-all approach. Drop a sufficiently powerful warhead in the reservoir close enough to the dam, and let water shock do for you what the barrel bombs did for the Ruhr dams. Besides, the goal isn't to destroy the dam, but rather just to render it unusuable by the enemy; irradiating it would accomplish the goal as effectively as structural damage would.
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 04, 2015, 04:15:49 pm
I agree that denying use of the dam would be a moderately useful goal, and might cause power interruptions to the cities already reduced to ash by full nuclear bombardment. But the military would just send in scrubber and engineer teams and use the damned thing anyway, so I guess that's not valid.
Post by: Krevsin on June 05, 2015, 12:13:28 am
As far as DC goes, my headcanon has always been that while DC was extensively nuked, its defense system prevented most of the nukes from detonating and most of what came through was air-detonated instead of ground-detonated, thus not creating a massive glassy crater. Streching it thin, I know, but I always kinda understood why Bethesda went for the East coast and chose the area as-of-yet-untouched-by-lore to give themselves some creative freedom.
Post by: Virtz on June 05, 2015, 12:50:02 am
Streching it thin, I know, but I always kinda understood why Bethesda went for the East coast and chose the area as-of-yet-untouched-by-lore to give themselves some creative freedom.Gave themselves creative freedom and then just regurgitated what was there in Fallout 1 and 2? Like seriously, even the storyline is a bad mishmash of things that happened in FO1 and 2. And they transfered all the most iconic factions to the East Coast with very poor lore explanations. They should've made up new factions. Like you can have the iconic power armour, the BoS didn't make it. Just have some other tech-savy faction scavenge and get it working.
Real reason they went with East Coast is cause Bethesda studios is physically in the East Coast.
Post by: Krevsin on June 05, 2015, 12:59:31 am
Post by: Virtz on June 05, 2015, 01:20:28 am
But if they remained on the west coast they couldn't have done any of that thing because then it'd be a literal redoing of FO1 and 2. Also if you think the lore to FO3 set on the east coast is butchering Fallout canon, you'd have probably loved it if it remained on the west coast. :PNo to any of that.
They're free to move to the East Coast, just don't transfer everything from the West Coast. No super mutants, no BoS, no Enclave. Do something original that keeps with the theme. As I said, a different faction could've picked up the iconic power armour. The BoS didn't make it, they just slapped their logo on it.
And a story in the West Coast could still be much more original than what they came up with. The West Coast has moved on and rebuilt. They're no longer fighting for survival, they've formed governments and are expanding into the East (as seen in New Vegas). Meanwhile, the East Coast is apparently filled with people too stupid to rebuild anything, even though it's been 200 years. They're less developed than people in Fallout 1 were. And that was 100 years ago.
Post by: Krevsin on June 05, 2015, 02:54:06 am
So I guess Bethesda were in fact playing it safe (and uninspired, save for a few bits and pieces) with FO3's setting. Oh well, hopefully they'll try something new with FO4.
Post by: Andres on June 05, 2015, 03:47:03 am
This is Fallout, War Never Changes, we just find the new evil and kill that.In the grim darkness of the two-point-third millennium, war never changes.
Post by: Harry Baldman on June 05, 2015, 04:27:57 am
Touche on the brotherhood and enclave part, but the supermutants I believe kinda had to be there for this to constitute an actual Fallout game since they're a big part of the setting.
So I guess Bethesda were in fact playing it safe (and uninspired, save for a few bits and pieces) with FO3's setting. Oh well, hopefully they'll try something new with FO4.
The super mutants didn't have to be there, either. They were barely there in Fallout 2, weren't they? Pretty much Broken Hills plus a random encounter.
The strange thing about Fallout 3 is that they try to recycle both Fallout 1 and 2's plotlines, and confusingly enough the actual menace in the Capital Wasteland, the super mutants lifted in all respects from Fallout 1 in terms of plot presence, is entirely incidental to the plot of the game - I mean, you even go to their place of origin, then proceed to do exactly nothing about it, because nobody really seems to care at that point beyond a simple mention to one of the scribes, I think, that "hey, Vault 87 is where the super mutants come from" and he's like "oh, cool, but let's get back to that Enclave thing".
I mean, it would have been pretty cool if they had recycled just Fallout 1's plot, or just Fallout 2's, because those are perfectly good plots to recycle, but they had to do some kind of confused middle ground where there's super mutants and their progressively succeeding assimilation plot, but no Master or Lieutenant (as in, actual villainous characters) to guide it and give the threat a face, there's the Enclave with their nutty schemes, but in an outside context kind of way where they just suddenly drop in (though I admit the radio station's foreshadowing that), and your dad's idea is the water chip plot hook from Fallout 1, but on a regional scale and sort of magical and dependent on the GECK, which I believe was described in Fallout 2 as having seeds in it, the knowledge to make sandcrete structures, fusion power generator schematics and stuff like that, but is described in Fallout 3 as the tribals talked about it in the very beginning - some kind of magical invention that'll solve all of the problems, and then they derail the Brotherhood of Steel from Fallout 1 to sort of tie the resulting mess together, with a nod toward the derailment in the form of the Outcasts. I understand why they did it - have to take everything that's Fallout and put it in the game (if superficially) to ensure some kind of continuity given the time that's passed. A way to mark their territory, so to speak.
Now, with Fallout 3 hopefully having gotten that territorial marking out of their system (unless they have the idea to have super mutants and the Enclave vie for center stage in the next game as well, and I sincerely hope they do not), they might actually be ready to produce something a little newer - I know the Institute sounds pretty cool, with androids and high tech and all that stuff. And that's something to be happy about, because Fallout 3 did get the style of the world right in a lot of the places, but the focus of its plot means the parts they did get right don't have quite enough development attention devoted to them.
EDIT: also, does anyone else get a strong Bioshock Infinite vibe from that trailer? Lots of color, airships, flashbacks, New England imagery... though I suppose Bioshock and Fallout have thematically highly similar settings with their retrofuturistic aesthetics.
Post by: Neonivek on June 05, 2015, 04:53:06 am
It does SERIOUSLY confuse the lore though... But then again I guess it is kind of like how some Ghouls are zombies and some Ghouls are people.
But seriously... They can make up new stuff... Really Bethesda you can just... Invent new things, new factions, and all that.
Well ok... the fanboys will eat you alive... but honestly I won't care if there is a faction of say... Androids or specific robots.
Post by: Putnam on June 05, 2015, 05:10:00 am
he was from the Institute in the Commonwealth
AKA Boston
AKA exactly where Fallout 4 takes place
you even see an android in a trench coat in the trailer
Post by: Neonivek on June 05, 2015, 05:19:55 am
Post by: Krevsin on June 05, 2015, 05:42:54 am
The super mutants didn't have to be there, either. They were barely there in Fallout 2, weren't they? Pretty much Broken Hills plus a random encounter.Yeah, they were barely there in FO2, but what I meant is that they're to Fallout what orcs are to fantasy, i.e. non-human, almost entirely evil villains without any political strings attached, they're just kinda there to be killed by the player and pose a threat to the world around them.
The strange thing about Fallout 3 is that they try to recycle both Fallout 1 and 2's plotlines, and confusingly enough the actual menace in the Capital Wasteland, the super mutants lifted in all respects from Fallout 1 in terms of plot presence, is entirely incidental to the plot of the game - I mean, you even go to their place of origin, then proceed to do exactly nothing about it, because nobody really seems to care at that point beyond a simple mention to one of the scribes, I think, that "hey, Vault 87 is where the super mutants come from" and he's like "oh, cool, but let's get back to that Enclave thing".
I think the super mutants were supposed to be much more developed in FO3, but that got cut or changed somewhen during development.
EDIT: also, does anyone else get a strong Bioshock Infinite vibe from that trailer? Lots of color, airships, flashbacks, New England imagery... though I suppose Bioshock and Fallout have thematically highly similar settings with their retrofuturistic aesthetics.I think that this is just Bethesda following modern trends in graphics since it's kinda popular to have actually colourful settings and imagery (Witcher 3, Bioshock: Infinite, et cetera). You know, like they did with FO3 and colour filters.
Post by: Putnam on June 05, 2015, 05:44:16 am
The super mutants didn't have to be there, either. They were barely there in Fallout 2, weren't they? Pretty much Broken Hills plus a random encounter.Yeah, they were barely there in FO2, but what I meant is that they're to Fallout what orcs are to fantasy, i.e. non-human, almost entirely evil villains without any political strings attached, they're just kinda there to be killed by the player and pose a threat to the world around them.
The strange thing about Fallout 3 is that they try to recycle both Fallout 1 and 2's plotlines, and confusingly enough the actual menace in the Capital Wasteland, the super mutants lifted in all respects from Fallout 1 in terms of plot presence, is entirely incidental to the plot of the game - I mean, you even go to their place of origin, then proceed to do exactly nothing about it, because nobody really seems to care at that point beyond a simple mention to one of the scribes, I think, that "hey, Vault 87 is where the super mutants come from" and he's like "oh, cool, but let's get back to that Enclave thing".
yes, this is true if you completely ignore everything that isn't fallout 3
Post by: Harry Baldman on June 05, 2015, 06:39:38 am
I was already told that there was "apparently" an android in fallout 1 or 2
Don't know who that could be. Skynet from Fallout 2 maybe, but that's not an android, but instead a robobrain. There was a ZAX computer in the Glow that was a sentient computer. K9 was a cyberdog, as was another cyberdog that I believe was only called Cyberdog. Maybe Dogmeat's secretly a robot.
there was already an android in fallout 3
he was from the Institute in the Commonwealth
AKA Boston
AKA exactly where Fallout 4 takes place
you even see an android in a trench coat in the trailer
This is what makes me hopeful - they've paid pretty much all the lip service they reasonably could to the first two Fallouts, so now they can do their own thing much more freely, I'm thinking the logic goes.
Yeah, they were barely there in FO2, but what I meant is that they're to Fallout what orcs are to fantasy, i.e. non-human, almost entirely evil villains without any political strings attached, they're just kinda there to be killed by the player and pose a threat to the world around them.
I think the super mutants were supposed to be much more developed in FO3, but that got cut or changed somewhen during development.
Well, in the first Fallout they were what you would get if you took an orc, fed it a lot of steroids until ordinary weapons didn't do anything against it and gave it weaponry that could flatten you for pretty much the entire game before you got yourself some power armor. And their leader, the Master, had the intent of bringing about Unity, which would end strife, hunger and difficulty to survive in the wasteland, although at the expense of individuality. Not a strictly evil goal, and you can actually talk him out of it by pointing out the critical flaw in his plan. Not evil, just misguided and with minions often, but not always lacking in intelligence. And in Fallout 2 they're regular, if oversized and overpowered people who happen to have been part of the aforementioned plan and responsible for a somewhat horrendous amount of murder and abduction, but otherwise a generally okay lot (except for the remnants of the Master's army - those guys are assholes, and also considerably more dangerous than Deathclaws).
So not orcs at all - in fact, it's raiders (also slavers in 2) who get the orc designation in the first fallouts, and are generally 'lesser orcs' in Fallout 3, though in both of the first games they represent somewhat difficult encounters that start off the Equipment Cascade where you have a steadily growing amount of equipment that you can only sell off piece by piece because nobody has enough money to buy it all. And because of their non-orc nature it's a shame the super mutants didn't get a fair shake in the middle of all that setting referencing that Fallout 3 was doing, since unlike raiders they are a genuinely interesting enemy in the original games - stupidly powerful and actually quite intriguing once you get their backstory. They could have even thrown in some more fleshwarped things into the mix and added some Children of the Cathedral descendants or something, to have creepy cultists atop the more threatening super mutants.
Post by: Virtz on June 05, 2015, 11:04:42 am
I think it's also the gratuitous use of bloom, flares and godrays. Maybe low-contrast shading as well. Can't say I liked the look in Infinite. Though looking at screenshots of Infinite, then at the teaser, FO4 doesn't look as bad, I feel.EDIT: also, does anyone else get a strong Bioshock Infinite vibe from that trailer? Lots of color, airships, flashbacks, New England imagery... though I suppose Bioshock and Fallout have thematically highly similar settings with their retrofuturistic aesthetics.I think that this is just Bethesda following modern trends in graphics since it's kinda popular to have actually colourful settings and imagery (Witcher 3, Bioshock: Infinite, et cetera). You know, like they did with FO3 and colour filters.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 05, 2015, 11:35:42 am
Post by: Neonivek on June 05, 2015, 12:40:33 pm
Fallout 1 has the better plot
Fallout 2 has the better open world experience (and a terrible plot... Probably the worst in the series)
Yet Fallout 2 is still considered the better game.
Post by: Harry Baldman on June 05, 2015, 01:20:43 pm
And it having a worse plot than Fallout 3 is a matter of opinion. I'd lean toward it having a better one mostly because Fallout 3 kind of uses the same one (to be precise, it tacks on the inferior second half of Fallout 2's plot to the inferior first half of Fallout 1's plot, not getting the nicer bits of either one), and it loses a bit of its novelty.
The main flaw in Fallout 2 is that it has a much more uneven world than 1, 3 or New Vegas. The first sections - Arroyo, Klamath, the Den - keep a decent level of consistency, but then you get to Redding, New Reno, Navarro, NCR and San Francisco that have wild shifts in tone and themes. It didn't have enough editorial oversight, and I do believe Black Isle's people have admitted this at least once. And the Enclave is pretty ridiculous as well.
Post by: umiman on June 05, 2015, 01:35:27 pm
Post by: Neonivek on June 05, 2015, 01:42:58 pm
It is why Morrowind was more fun to explore then say... Oblivion.
Post by: PTTG?? on June 05, 2015, 01:46:32 pm
Post by: Krevsin on June 05, 2015, 01:47:54 pm
Post by: Harry Baldman on June 05, 2015, 01:55:44 pm
AFAIK there is a time limit in Fallout 2 too. The medicine man will pop up in dreams telling you to hurry the fuck up every once in awhile.
It's more of a suggestion on his part so that you don't forget in the middle of your pornstardom and gold mine acquisition/resale that you technically have a quest that needs to be done, in much the same way as the "I'm the Chosen One come here in search of the holy GECK" do, in fact. It doesn't really change anything if you get the GECK before the fourth dream or not, as the result is exactly the same. There is technically an instance of Arroyo where you can go back and that guy whose dog you rescued has had his dog eaten by the increasingly hungry tribesmen, but that doesn't appear in the actual game, it just jumps to the "shot up by Enclave" instance when you get the fourth dream if I understand correctly. It also doesn't have a note in your Pip-Boy with a progressively ticking day counter, which further diminishes the impact.
I remember the first time when I played Fallout 1 for some time - got the water chip, sure enough, but then I ran out of stimpaks when I didn't realize I had to go down into the basement to get rid of the Gun Runners' deathclaws permanently, and decided to sleep off the Deathclaw-induced injuries. Eventually just got the bad ending cinematic, which came a little out of the blue, to be honest.
Tell you what, though, if the towns getting taken over by Super Mutants wasn't dependent on you being there to observe it and gave you bad endings regardless of if you went there or not after the time elapsed, it would have been much more stressful.
But yeah, also agreeing with the posters above - I'm feeling quite positive about Fallout 4 already.
Post by: SealyStar on June 05, 2015, 02:14:32 pm
AFAIK there is a time limit in Fallout 2 too. The medicine man will pop up in dreams telling you to hurry the fuck up every once in awhile.Yeah but it's not a hard time limit, he just harasses you with skippable still pictures every once in a while.
Anyway, I'm still addicted to FO4 hype but I am getting pissed off at the hatejerkers. There's nothing wrong with being cynical about a game and refusing to buy into the hype, and plenty of people are doing just that, but "hatejerk" is the only fitting word for some people talking about it (not so much here as on other sites, thankfully).
1. "Teh graphics suck!"
While I will concede that the graphics aren't as advanced as some AAA games recently, they're far from terrible and honestly pretty damn good when you look at the bigger picture. Furthermore, I can't get over the hypocrisy of people complaining about a trailer honestly showing what a game will look like, after years of complaining about prerendered movie trailers and bullshots.
2. "It's running on Gamebryo!"
Saying Skyrim and, apparently, Fallout 4 run on Gamebryo is like saying Half-Life 2 runs on the Quake Engine or Bioshock Infinite runs on the same engine as Deus Ex. It runs on a heavily updated fork of what was originally Gamebryo and so people are acting like it's literally Morrowind with guns.
3. "M'lady Sandra Reed said you can only be a dude!"
Countless people have skewered "The Reed Post" already, myself included. I don't hope to win anyone over by repeating the message, but if just one person stops treating the post as divine and infallible because of this I'll be happy.
First, the story behind it is fishy. Trusting the post means accepting that Bethesda let a single grunt programmer who had worked there less than a month access a nearly-finished game more than a year ago, and provided her tons of specific insider business and marketing information, that she presumably had no reason to know anyway, such as launch dates of the game itself and literally all DLC for it, and plans for projects that hadn't even started yet.
Second, most of the things in the post that do correspond to the currently-available information from the trailer and website can be Occam's-Razored as coincidence or based on information that was already available at the time it was made. For example, rumors that FO4 would be in Boston go back literally years and Bethesda employees were reportedly snooping around Beantown several months before the Reed Post.
Third, from the limited information we have, a lot of Reed's claims are demonstrably false. The plot she gave for the game doesn't seem to correspond with the scenario from the trailer that you come out of a Vault, the game has so far only been revealed for PS4/XBone/PC, with no references to last-gen versions, and the "brand new engine with 100% new from scratch code" looks remarkably like the Creation Engine. The last one really sticks in my craw because many of the people who believe the Reed post are the same people who bitch about how FO4 runs on Gamebryo.
4. "DAE paid mod$?"
While it's obviously possible and I wouldn't be shocked if they were announced, the rejection of paid mods for Skyrim was so strong and near-unilateral that even if Bethesda implemented it for FO4, they would probably be protested away again, unless the system was seriously revamped, or even cause boycotts if they were announced ahead of time.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 05, 2015, 02:14:33 pm
Ditto. Like I said as far as I'm concerned the only way Bethesda can mess this up for me is if they turn it into a linear shooter with premade characters.Fall Out Duty: 1950 Warfare
Post by: BigD145 on June 05, 2015, 02:27:33 pm
:/
Post by: Flying Dice on June 05, 2015, 03:20:15 pm
If there wasn't a huge modding community, I'd almost rather have FO4 be ASCII or even a bloody text adventure just to avoid looking at those ugly-ass Bethesda graphics. It'd probably be less buggy, too.
Post by: Rakonas on June 05, 2015, 03:23:30 pm
Geography, during the height of the cold war (which is a strong component of how Black Isle decided what survived and what didn't) the estimated total nuclear arsenal of Earth could destroy approximately ten percent of the Earths land area, based on cold-war era documents, Europe would have been blanketed with nuclear weapons adequate to completely destroy every square mile of the continent due to the fact that Europe would have been the site of all ground combat on that front. the rest of the world's nuclear arsenal was slated for major military, industrial and commercial sites in Russia and the US, as well as all major ports across the world.This is ridiculous logic. The Great War happens in 2077. nearly a hundred years after the height of the cold war. And the war is between China and the USA anyway. The nuclear arsenal is going to be enough to wipe out the entire planet if the story wants to say it is.
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 05, 2015, 03:25:53 pm
Post by: Virtz on June 05, 2015, 03:32:13 pm
1. "Teh graphics suck!"Hypocrisy. I do not think the word means what you think it means.
While I will concede that the graphics aren't as advanced as some AAA games recently, they're far from terrible and honestly pretty damn good when you look at the bigger picture. Furthermore, I can't get over the hypocrisy of people complaining about a trailer honestly showing what a game will look like, after years of complaining about prerendered movie trailers and bullshots.
Also, who's complaining about the trailer showing in-game graphics instead of pre-renders? Where has that happened? Cause that sounds a bit surreal.
Post by: BigD145 on June 05, 2015, 03:33:25 pm
That's the thing, though. I don't care about the presence/absence of graphics, but when a AAA title launches with graphics that would have been cutting edge a decade ago, that's a problem. When a AAA title launches with enough bugs, unfinished work, and poor design that you need half a dozen fix-mods just to make the vanilla game playable (and that it's easy to call that as an issue long before the game launches), that's a problem.
If there wasn't a huge modding community, I'd almost rather have FO4 be ASCII or even a bloody text adventure just to avoid looking at those ugly-ass Bethesda graphics. It'd probably be less buggy, too.
Cutting edge = "we don't know what bugs will crop up"
older gen = "we've had years to shake out the dust bunnies"
Post by: Putnam on June 05, 2015, 03:38:23 pm
Geography, during the height of the cold war (which is a strong component of how Black Isle decided what survived and what didn't) the estimated total nuclear arsenal of Earth could destroy approximately ten percent of the Earths land area, based on cold-war era documents, Europe would have been blanketed with nuclear weapons adequate to completely destroy every square mile of the continent due to the fact that Europe would have been the site of all ground combat on that front. the rest of the world's nuclear arsenal was slated for major military, industrial and commercial sites in Russia and the US, as well as all major ports across the world.This is ridiculous logic. The Great War happens in 2077. nearly a hundred years after the height of the cold war. And the war is between China and the USA anyway. The nuclear arsenal is going to be enough to wipe out the entire planet if the story wants to say it is.
...2077 was the height of the cold war. It's when the cold war went hot.
Post by: Rakonas on June 05, 2015, 03:43:20 pm
Right, in the fallout universe, which is why basing speculation on real life cold war plans is silly. Europe was already ravaged by the resource wars and the war was between China and the USA. Assuming that europe would be leveled by nukes and the USA only targeted at major centers makes no sense in the context of a hundred year long cold war between China and the USA.Geography, during the height of the cold war (which is a strong component of how Black Isle decided what survived and what didn't) the estimated total nuclear arsenal of Earth could destroy approximately ten percent of the Earths land area, based on cold-war era documents, Europe would have been blanketed with nuclear weapons adequate to completely destroy every square mile of the continent due to the fact that Europe would have been the site of all ground combat on that front. the rest of the world's nuclear arsenal was slated for major military, industrial and commercial sites in Russia and the US, as well as all major ports across the world.This is ridiculous logic. The Great War happens in 2077. nearly a hundred years after the height of the cold war. And the war is between China and the USA anyway. The nuclear arsenal is going to be enough to wipe out the entire planet if the story wants to say it is.
...2077 was the height of the cold war. It's when the cold war went hot.
Post by: miauw62 on June 05, 2015, 03:48:19 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on June 05, 2015, 03:57:49 pm
That's the thing, though. I don't care about the presence/absence of graphics, but when a AAA title launches with graphics that would have been cutting edge a decade ago, that's a problem. When a AAA title launches with enough bugs, unfinished work, and poor design that you need half a dozen fix-mods just to make the vanilla game playable (and that it's easy to call that as an issue long before the game launches), that's a problem.
If there wasn't a huge modding community, I'd almost rather have FO4 be ASCII or even a bloody text adventure just to avoid looking at those ugly-ass Bethesda graphics. It'd probably be less buggy, too.
Cutting edge = "we don't know what bugs will crop up"
older gen = "we've had years to shake out the dust bunnies"
Or, at Bethesda, the worst of both worlds: shitty graphics and mountains of bugs and performance issues. It's like you've never played one of their games before.
It's not like it's difficult; even Far Cry 2 tier graphics would be a massive step up, and that's about seven years old. There are games that'll be 3-4 years older than FO4 when it releases that'll be a decade or more advanced visually, and without being buggy messes to boot.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe FO4 will ship with no significant issues and with an option for HD textures. But I seriously doubt it. What I'm calling now is that it will be the same mountain of bugs and poor design that make it an unplayable mess for a couple months until the first community patch and UI overhaul are released, and the same two-generation-old console graphics that'll make your monitor look like a moldy vaseline-smeared potato until the first HD textures mod is released.
Which works, I suppose, because no way in hell am I paying $80 or whatever it was to preorder, it can sit and rot until it goes on sale for $20 or so.
Post by: Putnam on June 05, 2015, 04:01:12 pm
Also, have you seen the trailer without the shitty Youtube compression? The textures are fairly nice.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 05, 2015, 04:34:07 pm
That said, they're still not great, and well below the average set by similar games that have launched in the last five years or so. So reduce that to mehworthy graphics that shouldn't be looked at too closely... and a mountain of bugs.
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 05, 2015, 04:50:52 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on June 05, 2015, 05:01:06 pm
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 05, 2015, 05:08:03 pm
Post by: Wysthric on June 05, 2015, 05:16:13 pm
What makes it Skyrim with Guns? What would make it not Skyrim with Guns beyond going back to turn-based isometric gameplay? Don't get me wrong, I immensely enjoyed the first two games as well, it just doesn't seem likely that Bethesda or anyone else who might hold the rights in the future would go back.
They'd lose a ton of their playerbase if they went back to that.
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 05, 2015, 05:28:06 pm
I'd say the differences in gameplay and setting are different enough that it's an unfair comparison. If we call Fallout 3 "Oblivion with Guns" or Fallout 4 "Skyrim with Guns", we might as well call Thomas was Alone "VVVVVV with Quadrilaterals".
Post by: Rakonas on June 05, 2015, 06:13:21 pm
...Skyrim released with HD textures, or at least had them available after only a few months.
Also, have you seen the trailer without the shitty Youtube compression? The textures are fairly nice.
Where is the uncompressed trailer? Really wish they had used it in the first place if it's actually that big of a difference.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 05, 2015, 06:20:46 pm
Which is what I was saying.
I'd say the differences in gameplay and setting are different enough that it's an unfair comparison. If we call Fallout 3 "Oblivion with Guns" or Fallout 4 "Skyrim with Guns", we might as well call Thomas was Alone "VVVVVV with Quadrilaterals".
It's because it's the same engine and mechanics that feel almost identical arranged in the shape of a post-apoc shooter sandbox RPG instead of a fantasy slasher sandbox RPG.
Geez, next you'll be arguing that Mass Effect and Dragon Age are completely unrelated. I'm not talking about superficial content, I'm talking about the underlying framework.
Granted, "Skyrim with Guns" doesn't equate to bad as you seem to be suggesting, but it is lazy. At least we can hope that the slightly more complex faction shift from Oblivion -> Skyrim will be paralleled here.
Post by: Teneb on June 05, 2015, 06:28:33 pm
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 05, 2015, 06:33:23 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 05, 2015, 07:57:33 pm
Post by: Neonivek on June 05, 2015, 08:16:12 pm
Kind of reminds me of Skyrim where they botch the storyline so badly that honestly the Imperials, in spite being coded evil, were in fact the good guys.
Don't get me wrong the previous Fallouts had factions but they weren't all encompassing factions... they were groups and cliques of various levels of resources and powers.
Heck they shouldn't be afraid to just have a bad guy. The WEAKNEST part of New Vegas was how they weren't sure if they wanted the Legion to be a legitimate faction with their own way of doing things, or the villains (The NCR are a compromise).
But they should make the villain interesting. The Master of Fallout 1 was a much more interesting villain then the bozo from Fallout 2 who is so uninteresting I can never remember his name.
Heck they NEED to start making up their own mythology, bestiary, creatures, people, history now. We had the nostalgia filled punch to the guy which was Fallout 3 and New Vegas which feel like they were created from cribs notes from previous games (and in some cases... that is exactly what happened)
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 05, 2015, 09:28:32 pm
Post by: Putnam on June 05, 2015, 09:46:10 pm
Kind of reminds me of Skyrim where they botch the storyline so badly that honestly the Imperials, in spite being coded evil, were in fact the good guys.
I am 90% sure the Imperials are not "coded evil"...
Post by: umiman on June 05, 2015, 09:47:13 pm
Post by: Putnam on June 05, 2015, 09:52:36 pm
But I'm also pretty sure they removed that entirely in Skyrim.
Post by: Neonivek on June 05, 2015, 10:09:38 pm
Kind of reminds me of Skyrim where they botch the storyline so badly that honestly the Imperials, in spite being coded evil, were in fact the good guys.
I am 90% sure the Imperials are not "coded evil"...
Well think of it this way
1) They are the "Empire" and have it right in their name and are fighting "Rebels" and "Natives"
2) They have a legion of faceless uniformed soldiers who while they don't have helmets that completely cover their faces, partially do so.
3) They have superior resources and wealth AKA the Overdogs.
4) They are overseen by a large evil organization that watches from the shadows
5) and right at the start of the game they try to kill you... and the second thing you see them do is kill someone else.
6) They do not have a legitimate right to rule and are enforcing their laws onto a country that by all means has their own methods of teaching things
7) I THINK they also outlaw cults... but that could be the other side.
I honestly believe they wanted the Imperials to be "the bad guys" of Skyrim and just botched their storytelling and made them by far the most likable faction (Mostly by making the other faction kind of... insanely genocidal)
In the same way that the Caesar's Empire was meant to be "Primitive but legitimate"... but they botched it by presenting you to them in only the most vile ways only to go "Opps well uhhh, we have no idea what that was"
Yeah Bethesda aren't great storytellers...
Post by: Arbinire on June 05, 2015, 10:12:31 pm
Post by: FArgHalfnr on June 05, 2015, 10:12:36 pm
Post by: Neonivek on June 05, 2015, 10:15:10 pm
(removed)
I am actually fine with this. I like both Fallout 3 and New Vegas (I just thing Fallout 3 gets a bad rap that might make people overlook some of the things the game actually did right and thus make the series go stagnant)
And maybe Bioshock Infinite was a great 'game' but it certainly wasn't a good 'story'... and I am not quite sure how anyone could defend it on even the most basic level beyond "Ohh you have to turn your brain off and completely ignore it"
Fallout 4 is probably going to be good all things considered. We are just hoping it does better then the usual "Alright" gameplay and storytelling we usually get.
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 05, 2015, 10:27:21 pm
Speaking of the art style, was anyone else concerned at first that it would be an MMO just seeing the way it looked? You have to admit, the style does make it look a little WoW-like. Obviously, though, if it were an MMO it would be called Fallout Online instead of 4.
Post by: MasterFancyPants on June 05, 2015, 10:33:25 pm
I'm noticing that a lot of the people hatejerking(love that) in this thread are also the same people who defend even worse practices and implementations in 'indie' games in other threads. We get it, you hate AAA games, and will nitpick every single one that comes out. Loosen the fedora, it's not the end of the world if others of us enjoy them.Look out, super cool football player. No one here would be nitpicking Fallout is they didn't enjoy the games and the fact that Beth saved the series.
And Bioshock Infinite was a great game.
Would you rather we say, "Fallout 3 and NV had absolutely zero problems. I should be grateful that Beth takes my money in exchange for a service, the quality of that service doesn't matter."
TL;DR: No one is "hatejerking", they are criticizing flaws they see in the games.
Post by: Putnam on June 05, 2015, 11:02:22 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on June 05, 2015, 11:11:30 pm
Spoiler: This entire thing is a giant derail, but I replied to Neonivek (click to show/hide)
In the same way that the Caesar's Empire was meant to be "Primitive but legitimate"... but they botched it by presenting you to them in only the most vile ways only to go "Opps well uhhh, we have no idea what that was"The books and/or* conversations in F:NV reveal that "Caesar" deliberately modeled the Legion on the Roman Empire, with the sadism and brutality fully intentional. He felt it was the best way to build a strong nation in the wasteland environment. Also, you do know that Bethesda didn't make New Vegas, right?
Yeah Bethesda aren't great storytellers...
* It's been years since I've played it, so I don't remember whether I read it in a book, or if Caesar specifically told me. Before I assassinated him.
Edit: Typos and stuff.
Post by: Putnam on June 05, 2015, 11:29:33 pm
Post by: Rakonas on June 06, 2015, 03:03:16 am
I think they were referring to the Thalmor, which is a pretty big misunderstanding of what exactly the Thalmor is doing with the Empire, not to mention that it's pretty explicitly said in-game during one of the main quest missions that Ulfric is also being overseen by the Thalmor.
Ulfric is being overseen by the Thalmor the same way Lenin was being overseen by the German Empire. They just released him knowing that he'd start trouble in order to foment civil war, so they could pick up the pieces. All they want is for conflict to ignite and continue indefinitely. Really it makes no sense to in one breath condemn the stormcloaks as being genocidal racists and in the next claim that they're working for the Thalmor.
The Empire actually kneeled to the Aldmeri Dominion and banned all worship of Talos, the most important god for the Nords and arguably any actual Imperial. The Thalmor are obviously the antagonists of the game (unfortunately for anyone who wants to be a racist altmer) and the Empire's strategy for dealing with them is inferior considering the success of Hammerfell alone in defeating the Dominion.
Post by: Putnam on June 06, 2015, 03:06:31 am
Post by: scriver on June 06, 2015, 05:33:21 am
But yes, I think the Imperial-Bluecloak conflict was one of the parts of Skyrim Beth did good with (setting-/plot-wise, at least, not the quest content relating to it). It is clearly set up to be revealed to you that the real enemies are the Thalmor, and that siding with the Imperials is the only real way of fighting back against them - Bluecloaks getting control over Skyrim and seceding from the Empire will only leave both Empire and Skyrim weaker.
As for the Empire being "coded" evil... Neonivek, you take that stuff way to literal.
Post by: Putnam on June 06, 2015, 05:51:10 am
Talos is Hjalti Early-Beard (a breton Dragonborn, also known as Talos Stormcrown), Zurin Arctus (an imperial or maybe tsaesci, also known as the Underking) and Ysmir Wulfharth (probably a nord, definitely Shezzarine, powerful tongue also known as the Stormcrown and maybe Underking--yeah, I know). Suffice to say he's weird.
wow this is a tangent let's talk about something more relevant
Post by: Neonivek on June 06, 2015, 05:59:31 am
As for the Empire being "coded" evil... Neonivek, you take that stuff way to literal.
It is more that I think the nuance is accidental rather than intentional.
Post by: Wimopy on June 06, 2015, 07:20:16 am
It's also said that the Legion only has slavery on its frontiers, in its center it actually has satisfied, happy, normal civilisation. Then again, this isn't shown, though I believe they did want to show a real Legion village, but it didn't get into the game.
The NCR is specifically useless as well and close to falling apart, afaik.
House might actually have a good effect, I can't really remember his plans.
The player is, aptly named, a wildcard.
Really, it's more up to your imagination what happens to NV in the mong run.
FO3 was definitely far more linear story wise though.
Post by: Teneb on June 06, 2015, 10:03:42 am
House might actually have a good effect, I can't really remember his plans.House is a (egocentric) mechanical and economical genius, and also insanely lucky (his luck stat in game is 10) too, with an army of robots. He could probably get the Mojave up to a pretty big technological level, given his victory, at the cost of it being ruled by an immortal dictator. Whether that's better than the other options is up to you.
Post by: Wimopy on June 06, 2015, 10:20:00 am
Whether that's better than the other options is up to you.
I'm really thinking that all options add up to that statement in the end. I guess that's both a pro and a con of NV.
Post by: Darkmere on June 06, 2015, 10:25:38 am
His ideology is progress for its own sake, and a sense of pre-war nostalgia. Backing him brings the quality of life up by a mile for most people, according to the endgame, but it's hinted that how people could potentially misuse it is dangerous.
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 06, 2015, 12:49:35 pm
I mean, we do know that certain people that existed in real life after WWII existed in Fallout's diverged universe. Richard Nixon was apparently still the president in Fallout's timeline, so it's not too far-fetched to think that other cultures developed but simply never took hold in the US.
Of course, this would have to be handled carefully so that it wouldn't conflict too much with the rest of what we know about the Fallout universe.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 06, 2015, 02:55:23 pm
Obsidian made New Vegas. Not Bethesda. So saying that the Caeser's Legion issues was because 'Bethesda isn't good at storytelling' is incorrect in this case.
Again. Leaving. This thread is just arguments and pessimism, from what I can see.
Post by: Ultimuh on June 06, 2015, 03:04:42 pm
This thread is just arguments and pessimism, from what I can see.
As someone who's a bit of an optimist myself, I kinda agree.
Isn't it strange how optimists notice how much pessimism there is?
Or does that make Optimists pessimists as well?
edit: In reverse though, pessimists tend to complain about optimists.
Post by: Elfeater on June 06, 2015, 03:12:23 pm
But he is also complaining about pessimists.This thread is just arguments and pessimism, from what I can see.
As someone who's a bit of an optimist myself, I kinda agree.
Isn't it strange how optimists notice how much pessimism there is?
Or does that make Optimists pessimists as well?
edit: In reverse though, pessimists tend to complain about optimists.
Post by: jocan2003 on June 06, 2015, 03:12:26 pm
Post by: Harry Baldman on June 06, 2015, 03:19:53 pm
Again. Leaving. This thread is just arguments and pessimism, from what I can see.
Griping isn't pessimism, I feel. It's optimism - we have a vision of how things could turn out better, and from our powerless position we try to make our voices heard and find like-minded individuals through which we can realize actual improvement. Pessimism is the resignation that things won't turn out any better no matter how hard you try. There's plenty of that in here as well, but it's pretty easy to ignore when you begin to think about their complaints in a constructive fashion.
And heck, hype is where you find it. I've managed to hype myself up for a set protagonist, the setting and the potentially better writing from this thread, as well as clear up my own thoughts about the flaws of the previous Fallouts. You just need to not immediately internalize the griping and realize the flaws with many of the more sweeping assertions of the less constructively negative individuals.
Post by: Wimopy on June 06, 2015, 05:41:35 pm
But alright, enough of that, I'll change topic. Anyone knowledgeable in the Fallout universe know anything of post-war Boston? Or what's interesting in pre-war Boston that could come up in the game?
I know it's Massachusetts and it might be interesting to see if the nearby world-leading Unis will come up in some way. I'd also like to see the ocean...
Post by: Putnam on June 06, 2015, 05:52:01 pm
Post by: Harry Baldman on June 06, 2015, 06:00:25 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 06, 2015, 06:01:28 pm
How much you wanna bet we're actually Androids?
Post by: Harry Baldman on June 06, 2015, 06:14:19 pm
Post by: Putnam on June 07, 2015, 01:46:05 am
they took the strain from Fallout 2 and made it... less effective
for some reason
oy
Post by: Neonivek on June 07, 2015, 01:47:55 am
hey what's up with the FEV strain in Fallout 3
they took the strain from Fallout 2 and made it... less effective
for some reason
oy
They just wanted to include Super Mutants even though by all means there is no reason for them to really be involved.
Post by: Putnam on June 07, 2015, 02:00:43 am
I meant the Enclave strain, which is basically Fallout 2's Enclave's strain but water-borned instead of airborne.
also that sandra reed "leak" is fully debunked now that it's confirmed both that the player character can be male or female AND that the game is not coming out on PS3/360
see here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/38jawo/as_the_now_infamous_utulzei_or_uholycrapthatsfake/
Post by: Catastrophic lolcats on June 07, 2015, 03:18:28 am
...Calling it now:
How much you wanna bet we're actually Androids?
You're an android liberated by the Railroad and reprogrammed into believing you're a vault dweller. The Commonwealth sacked Vault 111 years ago looking for technology. The Railroad pressures you to destroy the Commonwealth and stop their evil. You find out you were manipulated 3/4s of the way into the game allowing you to turn on the Railroad or not. Brotherhood of Steel appears for no reason at all.
Post by: Harry Baldman on June 07, 2015, 04:10:54 am
I meant the Enclave strain, which is basically Fallout 2's Enclave's strain but water-borned instead of airborne.
To be fair, the Enclave's main research center did get blown up. Files tend to be misplaced in those cases sometimes. Maybe they were working off an earlier version.
Or maybe John Henry Eden has an abiding fondness for symmetry with the whole purifier thing.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 07, 2015, 06:33:19 am
For some reason I had the impression they'd modified the capital wasteland super mutant fev to do it, hence the difficulties in delivery. Since the CW FEV is actually terrible.I meant the Enclave strain, which is basically Fallout 2's Enclave's strain but water-borned instead of airborne.
To be fair, the Enclave's main research center did get blown up. Files tend to be misplaced in those cases sometimes. Maybe they were working off an earlier version.
Or maybe John Henry Eden has an abiding fondness for symmetry with the whole purifier thing.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 07, 2015, 03:07:58 pm
That's all Watsonian, of course; the real reason is that Bethesda were sloppy about their plot recycling.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 07, 2015, 11:30:54 pm
To TRY AND CAPTURE YOU, TO USE YOU BECAUSE OF ALL YOUR TECHNOLOGY...Calling it now:
How much you wanna bet we're actually Androids?
You're an android liberated by the Railroad and reprogrammed into believing you're a vault dweller. The Commonwealth sacked Vault 111 years ago looking for technology. The Railroad pressures you to destroy the Commonwealth and stop their evil. You find out you were manipulated 3/4s of the way into the game allowing you to turn on the Railroad or not. Brotherhood of Steel appears for no reason at all.
OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 07, 2015, 11:48:08 pm
deathclaws when
*sloops back out*
Post by: Putnam on June 07, 2015, 11:54:42 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 07, 2015, 11:55:48 pm
Missed it?
Post by: Shadowlord on June 08, 2015, 12:53:29 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 08, 2015, 12:59:40 am
Post by: Shadowlord on June 08, 2015, 01:44:11 am
Post by: Harry Baldman on June 08, 2015, 02:07:21 am
Post by: Mech#4 on June 08, 2015, 02:19:48 am
Post by: TempAcc on June 08, 2015, 08:10:13 am
This could be done by either making unique weapons harder to get, or just fewer in number overall, or just not completely superior to their modded non unique versions.
Post by: Wimopy on June 08, 2015, 08:56:23 am
Instead of making them unmoddable, it could be considered that it's already partly modded. So it could still get say, a better grip, but not a barrel if it's a silenced shotgun.
Post by: Zangi on June 08, 2015, 10:25:05 am
Post by: Flying Dice on June 08, 2015, 10:47:34 am
One high-damage satisfying-feeling weapon with every possible combat requirement met.
Post by: jocan2003 on June 08, 2015, 02:26:19 pm
Post by: TempAcc on June 08, 2015, 02:30:57 pm
Also, in the A Tale of Two Wastelands mod (that one mod that unites FO3 and FNV in a single game), the mod developer made FO3's combat shotgun use 20 gauge ammo because apparently "military shotguns mostly use 20 gauge". This sounds pretty weird to me, since 20 gauge is basically a hunting and home defense type of round, I dont see how it would be of any special use to the military.
Back on thread, I for one hope they make assault rifles have more satisfying sounds. The chinese assault rifle from FO3 managed to sound both hilarious and unrealistic.
Post by: PTTG?? on June 08, 2015, 03:04:28 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on June 08, 2015, 03:09:19 pm
The sad part is that Millenia's weapons for New Vegas looked and sounded great, but the ironsights were uniformly misaligned such that you had to aim based on a rough guess of where your barrel was, since aiming with the sights would send all of your shots into the ground at your target's feet. Except for the G36K with the integrated scope, of course.
It was sort of funny, actually; with a Hunting Rifle I don't even need a scope because of how absurdly good its iron sights are.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 08, 2015, 03:15:09 pm
Post by: Wimopy on June 08, 2015, 03:37:35 pm
Hmm... I wonder if they'll change the stealth mechanics (semi-related), even if slightly. Or will they keep the "Huh, must have been my imagination" *walks over allied corpse while ignoring the gun hole in his head* approach?
E3 should bring some interesting news. I wonder if any other interesting games will be announced. [Half-life 3, hoping]
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 08, 2015, 03:44:32 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on June 08, 2015, 03:44:41 pm
Post by: TempAcc on June 08, 2015, 04:01:40 pm
Legionaire veteran, 5 meters away: "Huh, I must be seeing things".
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 08, 2015, 06:38:37 pm
Get max speech. Win game. Easy. As. That. :I
Post by: Putnam on June 08, 2015, 06:39:16 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 08, 2015, 06:42:42 pm
no but seriously just guns speech and then like medicine or repair and you win everytime
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 08, 2015, 06:48:14 pm
If you're a sucker for characters that kind of make sense (like me) you get a personality and relevant SPECIAL attributes, skills, perks, weapons, items, clothes, companions, quests completed, lives ruined, etc.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 08, 2015, 06:49:58 pm
Post by: nenjin on June 08, 2015, 06:56:31 pm
Post by: SealyStar on June 08, 2015, 07:04:34 pm
It would be nice if Bethesda could put some actual effort into their game mechanics. I'm sort of scurred to see what they've learned from Skyrim's uh, refinements.DAE SPECIAL will become EIA because Skyrim?
Post by: Putnam on June 08, 2015, 07:06:33 pm
Post by: Darkmere on June 08, 2015, 07:36:26 pm
Post by: Iceblaster on June 08, 2015, 07:44:02 pm
Besides that, I myself have grown fine to the good old 357 revolver.
It's quite fun to have a firefight and turn around to the guy you shot at the start to get their übermensch gun out of their hands and pump six shots of death in their face :3
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 08, 2015, 07:45:40 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on June 08, 2015, 08:03:30 pm
Energy weapons > bullet weaponsHERESY *BLAM*
I actually wasn't that averse to Skyrim's changes, but I skipped Oblivion so there's that. I've played too many games with grand unified dump stats and swimming into a wall for hours to train athletics isn't really interesting gameplay. Neither is jumping everywhere to train acrobatics. Sorry, it's just not.Believe it or not, I actually have nostalgia trips about running around the overworld in Oblivion constantly jumping and going through my rotation of spells (including four separate featherweight ones, though that was as much about letting me carry obscene amounts of crap as it was grinding experience).
Post by: Neonivek on June 08, 2015, 08:07:45 pm
Energy weapons > bullet weapons
Really depends on the game.
Fallout New Vegas? BIG NOPE!... Unless you have New World Blues
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 08, 2015, 08:10:10 pm
Post by: BurnedToast on June 08, 2015, 08:13:47 pm
Energy weapons > bullet weapons
Explosives>energy weapons>bullet weapons>filthy peasant melee weapons
for the sake of completeness.
(actually I don't think I ever did a melee run, maybe I should play it again....)
Post by: Flying Dice on June 08, 2015, 08:23:52 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on June 08, 2015, 08:29:50 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 08, 2015, 08:31:53 pm
Post by: Teneb on June 08, 2015, 09:35:40 pm
Actually, new vegas lets you recycle energy ammo, so you can NEVER run out of shots once you get rolling. With the proper perks, you can turn 2 spent ammo into 1 usable one. That's not counting the recharger guns.Energy weapons > bullet weapons
Really depends on the game.
Fallout New Vegas? BIG NOPE!... Unless you have New World Blues
So maybe they don't deal as much damage, but you can shoot forever.
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 08, 2015, 09:43:24 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on June 08, 2015, 09:44:44 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 08, 2015, 09:47:26 pm
Post by: Teneb on June 08, 2015, 09:51:39 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on June 08, 2015, 09:56:30 pm
Don't you one-up me with things I didn't know you could do. :PTo be fair, a lot of that may well be from mods I've forgotten about installing. :P
Post by: nenjin on June 08, 2015, 10:02:35 pm
Quote
Yeah, Fallout 3 actually did dumb it down quite a bit (tag skills as a flat bonus etc.), but they're not going to switch to ES-style experience just because they did that earlier.
I was sort of disenchanted the day I fired up FO3 and found out that was how it was, but I got over it. Seems like every time I acquiesce to the newer, sleeker Bethesda design philosophy and learn to live with it, they hack a couple more pieces off. So I'm essentially waiting for them to do a hat-trick.
Post by: Teneb on June 08, 2015, 10:05:12 pm
Maybe it will reach a point where they cannot cut anything else without leaving nothing, and still do it... causing an underflow error that spawns the most complex RPG ever made.QuoteYeah, Fallout 3 actually did dumb it down quite a bit (tag skills as a flat bonus etc.), but they're not going to switch to ES-style experience just because they did that earlier.
I was sort of disenchanted the day I fired up FO3 and found out that was how it was, but I got over it. Seems like every time I acquiesce to the newer, sleeker Bethesda design philosophy and learn to live with it, they hack a couple more pieces off. So I'm essentially waiting for them to do a hat-trick.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 08, 2015, 10:17:12 pm
How can I put it? The less statistics there are, the less there is that defines what's different about my warrior from my mage. I like it when a game restricts what you can do (A warrior not being able to join the mages guild unless they have sufficient skill/intelligence) because even the restriction builds the story/world around the character. Also it means you can't do everything in one playthrough.
They could've changed such a check for joining the mages guild to, say, at least 30 in two mage skills.
Likewise in Fallout, it could be assumed that the Brotherhood of Steel would only accept members who had a sufficient level of skill in either repair, big guns, computers or a high intelligence stat to define the fact that they wouldn't let a bandit or average wastelander join.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 09, 2015, 12:20:32 am
Post by: scriver on June 09, 2015, 12:33:34 am
I found that the biggest issue I had with Skyrim's system of no statistics beyond health, mana and fatigue was that there was little difference between the characters created.
How can I put it? The less statistics there are, the less there is that defines what's different about my warrior from my mage. I like it when a game restricts what you can do (A warrior not being able to join the mages guild unless they have sufficient skill/intelligence) because even the restriction builds the story/world around the character. Also it means you can't do everything in one playthrough.
They could've changed such a check for joining the mages guild to, say, at least 30 in two mage skills.
The problem with this is that Beth's design philosophy didn't actually use any of those stats in any way ever, so they might as well be cut. I thought Skyrim was an improvement over Oblivion in that regard.
Fallout on the other hand has a pretty different history where stats come up constantly, particularly in dialogue and action, which New Vegas hopefully only served to reinforce. So if it was cut there I would scream bloody murder.
Post by: nenjin on June 09, 2015, 12:35:26 am
Versus:
Did you put points into Speech or not?
I felt like FO3 made a stab at some of that but, like a lot of Bethesda games, it gets watered down or can't adequately cover the vastness of content they churn out. Skyrim just doubled down on that.
Quote
The problem with this is that Beth's design philosophy didn't actually use any of those stats in any way ever, so they might as well be cut. I thought Skyrim was an improvement over Oblivion in that regard.
While Oblivion stats may not have hooked into dialog well if at all, they did still provide some granular, enjoyable progression. For thief/agility fighters, being able to level up your run and jump speed was awesome. Compared to Skyrim where, you were pretty much like every other guy out there until you'd gotten the perks to provide that specific bonus. Rather than a granular progression, it's a lurching upgrade scheme where you play half the game under one set of constraints, before magically getting better.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 09, 2015, 01:00:08 am
I preferred how Morrowind handled guilds with joining and advancement being restricted depending on your level in the relevant skills and major associated statistic. Also things like paying guild dues and contributing research or artifacts to gain the higher ranks which in turn allowed access to the spell makers and better sellers.
Joining the mages guild in Morrowind required an Intelligence of 30 and Willpower of 30, advancing to the next level required one skill at level 10 and so it went.
Advancing to Archmage required Intelligence and Willpower to both be at 35 and for one mage skill to be 90 with 2 others at 35. (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Mages_Guild#Mages_Guild_Ranks)
The biggest gripe I had with Skyrim was with the mages guild. If you want to join you have to show your proficiency by casting one spell out of three (Flame, shield and muffle or something). However, if you don't know those spells then the bridge keeper offers to sell the books to you for something like 15 gold. For a supposedly closely guarded community the level of entry is very low. :P
Post by: Krevsin on June 09, 2015, 02:27:30 am
Post by: Rakonas on June 09, 2015, 02:37:42 am
Post by: Lightningfalcon on June 09, 2015, 03:10:49 am
The biggest gripe I had with Skyrim was with the mages guild. If you want to join you have to show your proficiency by casting one spell out of three (Flame, shield and muffle or something). However, if you don't know those spells then the bridge keeper offers to sell the books to you for something like 15 gold. For a supposedly closely guarded community the level of entry is very low. :PFrom my understanding, it was less if you knew how to cast those and more if you had the capability to cast them. Plus, you didn't even need to cast a spell to get in. Just yell really loudly.
Post by: Ultimuh on June 09, 2015, 03:16:20 am
Thing is, you already KNOW flames to start with.The biggest gripe I had with Skyrim was with the mages guild. If you want to join you have to show your proficiency by casting one spell out of three (Flame, shield and muffle or something). However, if you don't know those spells then the bridge keeper offers to sell the books to you for something like 15 gold. For a supposedly closely guarded community the level of entry is very low. :PFrom my understanding, it was less if you knew how to cast those and more if you had the capability to cast them. Plus, you didn't even need to cast a spell to get in. Just yell really loudly.
Every since character you make no matter what race knows flames.
Which is why I like mods which removes starter spells altogether.
Post by: Wimopy on June 09, 2015, 03:21:18 am
Post by: cerapa on June 09, 2015, 03:25:39 am
The biggest gripe I had with Skyrim was with the mages guild. If you want to join you have to show your proficiency by casting one spell out of three (Flame, shield and muffle or something). However, if you don't know those spells then the bridge keeper offers to sell the books to you for something like 15 gold. For a supposedly closely guarded community the level of entry is very low. :P
I think the capacity to buy a spellbook and learn a spell in 10 seconds is a pretty impressive achievement.
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 09, 2015, 03:27:15 am
Post by: BurnedToast on June 09, 2015, 03:36:09 am
The biggest gripe I had with Skyrim was with the mages guild. If you want to join you have to show your proficiency by casting one spell out of three (Flame, shield and muffle or something). However, if you don't know those spells then the bridge keeper offers to sell the books to you for something like 15 gold. For a supposedly closely guarded community the level of entry is very low. :P
That's your biggest gripe? Not the fact that you go from a nobody they've never seen before to grandmaster of the whole guild in like, 3 days and you can do so without knowing any advanced magic of any sort?
Anyway, I don't mind it so much... TES has always been a sort of a "screw around and do whatever you want" type game, not some kind of super serious class based restrictive game. It's just how the series is.
Post by: Putnam on June 09, 2015, 03:48:05 am
Post by: Darkmere on June 09, 2015, 04:17:12 am
and that's why morrowind required at least 3 playthroughs IIRC to get every quest...
But the only house worth joining was Telvanni....
Post by: Putnam on June 09, 2015, 04:25:16 am
Post by: Mech#4 on June 09, 2015, 04:28:15 am
The biggest gripe I had with Skyrim was with the mages guild. If you want to join you have to show your proficiency by casting one spell out of three (Flame, shield and muffle or something). However, if you don't know those spells then the bridge keeper offers to sell the books to you for something like 15 gold. For a supposedly closely guarded community the level of entry is very low. :P
That's your biggest gripe? Not the fact that you go from a nobody they've never seen before to grandmaster of the whole guild in like, 3 days and you can do so without knowing any advanced magic of any sort?
Well, it's kind of the same thing. No real restrictions to advancement in a guild.
As for the houses in Morrowind, their different themes was appreciated by me. Fighters for Redoran, Thieves for Hlaalu and Mages for Telvanni.
Tying back into Fallout 4; if it does include the institute I would like to see more restrictions for quests that only apply for really smart characters. They might treat you like dumb muscle if you don't reach their standards but show your ability and you could gain access to neat items, weapons or the like. Helps present the personality of the place as well if that's the case. Disdain for anyone seen as being barbaric.
Post by: Neonivek on June 09, 2015, 04:30:42 am
I hate that I need a trait to fight aliens.
Post by: Putnam on June 09, 2015, 04:31:50 am
1. the institute is in the Commonwealth
2. The Commonwealth is Massachusetts
3. Therefore, the Institute likely refers to MIT
4. MIT is in Cambridge, Massachusetts, which is in the Boston metropolitan area
5. There's an Android in the Fallout 4 trailer (guy in Mysterious Strangerish outfit)
6. Yeah, the institute's in the game
You know... I kind of wish the "Weirdness" trait was just flat out removed from Fallout and just left in the game.
I hate that I need a trait to fight aliens.
Some people would hate if there are aliens at all.
Post by: BurnedToast on June 09, 2015, 05:03:23 am
You know... I kind of wish the "Weirdness" trait was just flat out removed from Fallout and just left in the game.
I hate that I need a trait to fight aliens.
It's a compromise since a lot of people don't want the weirdness at all (though I guess aliens are sort of canon now after mothership zeta)
Really it should just be a toggle somewhere that does not force you to waste a trait point.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 09, 2015, 09:41:50 am
Post by: Wimopy on June 09, 2015, 09:47:14 am
"What do you expect the outside world will be like?"
OPTIONS:
-Dark, a constant, serious struggle for survival. [No Silly content]
-Strange, unlike anything we've seen before. [Allows Silly content]
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 09, 2015, 09:49:31 am
Post by: Teneb on June 09, 2015, 09:55:40 am
Uncle Crassius is very disappointed in you for not choosing Hlaalu.and that's why morrowind required at least 3 playthroughs IIRC to get every quest...
But the only house worth joining was Telvanni....
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 09, 2015, 10:57:29 am
You know... I kind of wish the "Weirdness" trait was just flat out removed from Fallout and just left in the game.
I hate that I need a trait to fight aliens.
It's a compromise since a lot of people don't want the weirdness at all (though I guess aliens are sort of canon now after mothership zeta)
Really it should just be a toggle somewhere that does not force you to waste a trait point.
Weirdness haters go home.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I love Fallouts pop culture references, completely okay for something that was always a campy fifties action serial.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 09, 2015, 10:59:52 am
Post by: Flying Dice on June 09, 2015, 11:12:41 am
That said, I never picked WW in NV because I wanted the special Gauss Rifle more than the alien blaster. :c
Personally I like Fallout 3/NV's way of dealing with skills/stats way better than any of the elder scrolls. Skyrim's hp/mana/fatigue stuff is bland, sure, but I actually think it's a slight improvement over the tedious way that stats improve as you level up. I know you're probably fine if you just let it be and play naturally but it invites perfectionism by making you feel like you aren't doing as best as you could unless you play weirdly, especially with Oblvion's level scaling.
Eeh, nenjin hit the nail on the head with Oblivion vs. Skyrim stats. The latter's method of handing out upgrades in lumps once you hit skill thresholds and buy perks was a step backwards from Oblivion's slight improvements to various things with every level. The perk system works for Fallout mainly because you also have the incremental improvements as you level your skills and ability scores (if you use Intensive Training or w/e).
Post by: Sergius on June 09, 2015, 02:30:26 pm
Haha, get it? Kvatch. Puns are funny.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 09, 2015, 04:19:06 pm
Get out.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 09, 2015, 06:59:41 pm
...
Get out of here, Stalker.
Post by: Gabeux on June 09, 2015, 07:23:33 pm
Oblivion made me go obsessive since it was the first Bethesda game I played. I used to watch an uncle play Daggerfall/Morrowind when I was a kid, and I ALWAYS wanted to play it..so when I got my hands on Oblivion, I went crazy.
Then Fallout 3 and NV...I had so much fun with it.
And Skyrim also made me go hermit, and I didn't even finish the plot. I currently have a great save using almost 50 mods and I plan to finish the game and all the guilds before 2016. It's also the first time I play the game in a less "teenager way" (not knowing/caring about mechanics and features and just bumping around stuff and upgrading whatever seems fun. I actually finished Oblivion and FO3 like that).
So yeah..I hope my PC can't run FO4. Because gaming obsession..gaming obsession never changes.
Post by: Rakonas on June 09, 2015, 07:38:03 pm
>if it does include the institute
1. the institute is in the Commonwealth
2. The Commonwealth is Massachusetts
3. Therefore, the Institute likely refers to MIT
4. MIT is in Cambridge, Massachusetts, which is in the Boston metropolitan area
5. There's an Android in the Fallout 4 trailer (guy in Mysterious Strangerish outfit)
6. Yeah, the institute's in the gameYou know... I kind of wish the "Weirdness" trait was just flat out removed from Fallout and just left in the game.
I hate that I need a trait to fight aliens.
Some people would hate if there are aliens at all.
Plot twist, the Institute is Miskatonic University and the android was actually a Great Old One.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 09, 2015, 07:49:47 pm
Post by: Sergius on June 09, 2015, 08:05:47 pm
...
Get out.
C'mon, no need to go Mentat about it.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 09, 2015, 08:13:19 pm
Post by: Iceblaster on June 09, 2015, 08:20:31 pm
...
Get out.
C'mon, no need to go Mint-al about it.
FTFY
:3
Reading that post makes me interested in how BoS armor will look.
Shiny armor is fun :3
Post by: Wimopy on June 10, 2015, 03:52:22 am
Relevant re: graphics. (http://np.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/395mkk/lets_talk_some_sense_heres_why_fallout_4_looks/)
Well, for all we know, FO4 might not even be out in a year, so it's pointless to discuss graphics.
Also, can someone tell me what's wrong with how Skyrim or New Vegas look? Sure, they're not Witcher 3, but atleast they run smoothly (well.. the graphics isn't causing problems anyway) and it looks more than good enough for me.
Personally, I'd rather have a game that runs smooth on medium-end PCs than one that looks great but even some high-end rigs have trouble with it...
Post by: Putnam on June 10, 2015, 04:36:41 am
Post by: Flying Dice on June 10, 2015, 09:02:18 am
Post by: Teneb on June 10, 2015, 09:19:20 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 10, 2015, 09:26:20 am
Morrowind looks better in comparisonI was with you up until this point. I mean really? Morrowind looked like shit. Even when it first came out it looked like shit. My brain compensated for it because the underlying gameplay was compelling and immersive.
Spoiler: seriously (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on June 10, 2015, 09:47:39 am
IDK, I'm talking about how Morrowind is old enough that (unlike Oblivion/FO3/NV) it shouldn't look markedly better than it does compared to its contemporaries, and it looks bad enough to just accept it as it is instead of constantly wincing, at least for me. Same as with Baldur's Gate, X-Com Doom, Quake III Arena, &c. TES IV/FO3/NV sort of fall into an uncanny valley of graphics because they're almost but not quite good.Morrowind looks better in comparisonI was with you up until this point. I mean really? Morrowind looked like shit. Even when it first came out it looked like shit. My brain compensated for it because the underlying gameplay was compelling and immersive.Spoiler: seriously (click to show/hide)
Post by: Krevsin on June 10, 2015, 11:08:32 am
Post by: Gabeux on June 10, 2015, 11:45:12 am
I don't mind anything else given the very fun gameplay and big game world. But at least Skyrim should have come out with way better textures, and that would be enough.
But I never really cared for it. I just wondered why they didn't put better graphics in their masterpieces. :P
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 10, 2015, 12:06:44 pm
Post by: Krevsin on June 10, 2015, 12:49:13 pm
Anything but my dogmeat. :'(
Post by: Gabeux on June 10, 2015, 01:02:16 pm
It had a free HD texture DLC thing.
I got to know about this as I came back to finish Skyrim last month.
But it took a while to be released, didn't it?
Still, for it to look as I expected it to look on release, I had to use a mod to improve the static meshes (and the HD DLC).
It's weird that I only got annoyed by Skyrim stock graphics though. I didn't care on Oblivion/FO3.
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 10, 2015, 01:17:32 pm
I'm... not sure the exact date but I seem to recall it was pretty soon after release.It had a free HD texture DLC thing.
I got to know about this as I came back to finish Skyrim last month.
But it took a while to be released, didn't it?
Still, for it to look as I expected it to look on release, I had to use a mod to improve the static meshes (and the HD DLC).
It's weird that I only got annoyed by Skyrim stock graphics though. I didn't care on Oblivion/FO3.
Post by: Gabeux on June 10, 2015, 01:20:29 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on June 10, 2015, 01:32:34 pm
The graphics in Skyrim, Oblivion, and Morrowind never really bothered me, but I've been gaming since I was a kid playing stuff on a Commodore 64. These are two of the games I played back then:
(http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/48115-bruce-lee-commodore-64-screenshot-one-on-two.gif) (http://www.mobygames.com/game/c64/bruce-lee/screenshots/gameShotId,48115/)(http://get-2.wpapi.wp.pl/a,61764431,f,thumb/3/9/1/391527b66d7ea54bcd3d4cff4416f9af/106098eaa9c6866668d547a2ebc2f9cc/spy_vs_spy.jpg) (http://gry.wp.pl/galeria/30-najwazniejszych-gier-na-commodore-64-wedlug-czytelnikow-imperium-gier,179799/22.html?ticket=1430164364866630LwjqvXIvDkNW%2BNhJTWjSRGKHc8rHJAKejrKBcE3pMs0YTKQxR%2B3vrXIYZLAgpxjO%2FvYq9ddhB40kRUfd6KNvXbAX8wHvQX%2B7LF8CHObY6H%2FWpKw59OwP7xfoytSSOeNyRHlrRRkA9QYHK3xMdgTRZg%3D%3D)
I played plenty of DOS games, as well.
I have over 400 hours now in Dominions 4, which has graphics on par with early 90s SVGA games. And of course we are all here for Dwarf Fortress.
So if the gameplay is good, I don't particular care if it looks spectacular or not (especially since if it doesn't require a brand new graphics card).
I'll be especially disappointed if they're putting even more effort into making it look even better, because it seems like they've been following a trend since Morrowind, where the more money they put into making the game and scenery look good, the less money they put into making the plot and writing good.
Post by: jocan2003 on June 10, 2015, 02:18:26 pm
This (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comicsandcosplay/comics/critical-miss/14037-Falling-Out-of-the-World) is entirely true and a wholly valid thing that has happened to me in the past and I fear it'll happen in FO4 as well.setEssential 1
Anything but my dogmeat. :'(
Post by: Putnam on June 10, 2015, 03:02:51 pm
What I was bothered by Oblivion/FO3/New Vegas/Skyrim was the textures.
I don't mind anything else given the very fun gameplay and big game world. But at least Skyrim should have come out with way better textures, and that would be enough.
But I never really cared for it. I just wondered why they didn't put better graphics in their masterpieces. :P
They had to deal with 256 MB of RAM for graphics on the PS3
Post by: Flying Dice on June 10, 2015, 03:19:45 pm
It was a month or two after, I think. Could have been longer. From what I recall from trying to play it (I pre-ordered it, derp), the game was still largely unplayable on PC at the time, unless you liked crashes with your crashes.
The graphics in Skyrim, Oblivion, and Morrowind never really bothered me, but I've been gaming since I was a kid playing stuff on a Commodore 64. These are two of the games I played back then:
(http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/48115-bruce-lee-commodore-64-screenshot-one-on-two.gif) (http://www.mobygames.com/game/c64/bruce-lee/screenshots/gameShotId,48115/)(http://get-2.wpapi.wp.pl/a,61764431,f,thumb/3/9/1/391527b66d7ea54bcd3d4cff4416f9af/106098eaa9c6866668d547a2ebc2f9cc/spy_vs_spy.jpg) (http://gry.wp.pl/galeria/30-najwazniejszych-gier-na-commodore-64-wedlug-czytelnikow-imperium-gier,179799/22.html?ticket=1430164364866630LwjqvXIvDkNW%2BNhJTWjSRGKHc8rHJAKejrKBcE3pMs0YTKQxR%2B3vrXIYZLAgpxjO%2FvYq9ddhB40kRUfd6KNvXbAX8wHvQX%2B7LF8CHObY6H%2FWpKw59OwP7xfoytSSOeNyRHlrRRkA9QYHK3xMdgTRZg%3D%3D)
I played plenty of DOS games, as well.
I have over 400 hours now in Dominions 4, which has graphics on par with early 90s SVGA games. And of course we are all here for Dwarf Fortress.
So if the gameplay is good, I don't particular care if it looks spectacular or not (especially since if it doesn't require a brand new graphics card).
I'll be especially disappointed if they're putting even more effort into making it look even better, because it seems like they've been following a trend since Morrowind, where the more money they put into making the game and scenery look good, the less money they put into making the plot and writing good.
I cut my teeth on DOS games. I still think that Oblivion/FO3/NV looked like arse. Graphics on par with their times look good, graphics that aren't look bad, you can't explain that! Checkmate, atheists.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 10, 2015, 03:55:02 pm
Post by: Ultimuh on June 10, 2015, 03:57:25 pm
Oh god, now I'm worried. I DON'T WANT TO HAVE THE DOG MURDERED D:setEssential 1
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 10, 2015, 03:59:14 pm
Besides, if it'll die, it'll probably die in a cinematic/Cutscene-esque way. Making him immortal could break it.
Post by: Aedel on June 10, 2015, 04:00:14 pm
Oh god, now I'm worried. I DON'T WANT TO HAVE THE DOG MURDERED D:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Wimopy on June 10, 2015, 04:03:53 pm
I definitely can't imagine saying FO3/NV 'looked like arse', but hey, can't expect everyone to have the same views.
Oh god, now I'm worried. I DON'T WANT TO HAVE THE DOG MURDERED D:
Yeah, NPCs have a suicidal tendency of dying. I really hope they get an AI that actually thinks of surviving. (And not just Skyrim's "Oh, I yield" *5 sec* "Die! Skyrim belongs to the Nords!")
Post by: Gabeux on June 10, 2015, 04:10:21 pm
What I was bothered by Oblivion/FO3/New Vegas/Skyrim was the textures.
I don't mind anything else given the very fun gameplay and big game world. But at least Skyrim should have come out with way better textures, and that would be enough.
But I never really cared for it. I just wondered why they didn't put better graphics in their masterpieces. :P
They had to deal with 256 MB of RAM for graphics on the PS3
Damn consoles.
But it's Bethesda. The only way to be mad at them is if they make a bad game. Which would prove difficult for them to do.
(fanboy much? :P)
Post by: Ultimuh on June 10, 2015, 04:13:16 pm
They aren't very good at MMOs.What I was bothered by Oblivion/FO3/New Vegas/Skyrim was the textures.
I don't mind anything else given the very fun gameplay and big game world. But at least Skyrim should have come out with way better textures, and that would be enough.
But I never really cared for it. I just wondered why they didn't put better graphics in their masterpieces. :P
They had to deal with 256 MB of RAM for graphics on the PS3
Damn consoles.
But it's Bethesda. The only way to be mad at them is if they make a bad game. Which would prove difficult for them to do.
(fanboy much? :P)
Post by: Gabeux on June 10, 2015, 04:18:39 pm
They aren't very good at MMOs.
*Shakes fist*
I don't play MMOs though (I rarely play Elite Dangerous and they are, unfortunately, making it too MMO-like), and I never understood the point in making an Elder Scrolls online game, except for dem microtransaction monies. But people probably discussed the hell of this already since its release.
Post by: Putnam on June 10, 2015, 04:19:23 pm
That's not a "what MMO" joke, either, Bethesda had nothing to do with the development of ESO.
Also, its lore is amazing. Worked just as much on making canon irrelevant as C0DA did.
Post by: scriver on June 10, 2015, 05:14:01 pm
Post by: kaenneth on June 10, 2015, 05:17:08 pm
Energy weapons far surpass ballistics because energy weapons melt or goo-ify enemies with critical kills.
And then the game never cleans up the ash/goo piles properly and they make the game crash more.
Post by: Putnam on June 10, 2015, 05:19:03 pm
"Nothing to to with" is a bit of a strong way to put it. It's not like Beth and Zenimax Online are completely unrelated.
It's much like saying that Wolfenstein: The New Order was developed by Bethesda, or Dishonored, or The Evil Within, Quake Live, Rage, Doom 4...
They're two studios owned by the same parent company and not much more. The very most BGS involvement I've heard with ESO is that Kurt Kuhlmann is often consulted with when it comes to lore.
Post by: Cthulufaic on June 10, 2015, 05:23:18 pm
The very most BGS involvement I've heard with ESO is that Kurt Kuhlmann is often consulted with when it comes to lore.damnit I read that as Kurt Kobain. And that's not even how you spell his name, riperoni in pepperoni for me I guess.
oyeah he's also dead.
Post by: scriver on June 10, 2015, 05:36:08 pm
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 10, 2015, 05:41:43 pm
...and I read that as Kurt Kerman. Dammit, KSP.The very most BGS involvement I've heard with ESO is that Kurt Kuhlmann is often consulted with when it comes to lore.damnit I read that as Kurt Kobain. And that's not even how you spell his name, riperoni in pepperoni for me I guess.
oyeah he's also dead.
A nice post pinpointing major locations in FO4's Boston and the location of Vault 111. (http://imgur.com/gallery/gOlqO)
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 11, 2015, 12:03:53 am
Post by: Putnam on June 11, 2015, 12:11:07 am
i rest my case
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 11, 2015, 12:13:53 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 11, 2015, 12:47:13 am
It's never crashed for me.Energy weapons far surpass ballistics because energy weapons melt or goo-ify enemies with critical kills.
And then the game never cleans up the ash/goo piles properly and they make the game crash more.
...without me trying to CTRL+ALT+DEL out to use the Internet, of course.
Abnormal amounts of salt detected.
Post by: Putnam on June 11, 2015, 12:48:56 am
Post by: Mech#4 on June 11, 2015, 01:06:27 am
What kind of music would you like to hear? More of Fallout 3's style, New Vegas', or something new? As much as I think western music probably fits a desert setting like NV's, I feel Fallout is always sort of a western, so I'd be open to more cowboy tunes. Then again, The Inkspots and gang set very good atmosphere for a bigger city. Are there any artists that characterize Boston?
Apparently, from a very brief look, Boston is known for orchestras and choirs. Having several auditoriums and other buildings for orchestral music.
Post by: ductape on June 11, 2015, 01:23:01 am
What kind of music would you like to hear? More of Fallout 3's style, New Vegas', or something new? As much as I think western music probably fits a desert setting like NV's, I feel Fallout is always sort of a western, so I'd be open to more cowboy tunes. Then again, The Inkspots and gang set very good atmosphere for a bigger city. Are there any artists that characterize Boston?
Old school punk rock. Black Flag, Sex Pistols, Misfits, Dead Kennedys, ya know the stuff.
Post by: Wimopy on June 11, 2015, 04:04:43 am
Punk and classical music generally don't fit in as the main genre, I think (and punk didn't even exist in the 60s, IIRC).
I guess the FO3 style is returning, judging from the trailer though.
Post by: Putnam on June 11, 2015, 04:10:05 am
Fallout is based on 50s culture
Post by: scriver on June 11, 2015, 04:33:46 am
But yes, if we go 50s culture we'll get beatnicks and mods instead of punks.
Post by: Harry Baldman on June 11, 2015, 05:12:45 am
But yes, if we go 50s culture we'll get beatnicks and mods instead of punks.
Bongo music and accompanying post-apocalyptic beat poetry, then? Though that's more of a New York thing, no?
Post by: scriver on June 11, 2015, 05:30:36 am
Also, looking up mods, it turns out you did not have those in the US. Oh well, I guess that means no military-parkas-with-razor-blades-and-fish-hooks-sewn-into-it-wearing, amphetamine-frenzied raiders on scooters for F4.
Would be great for a European mod though.
Post by: Krevsin on June 11, 2015, 05:33:20 am
Otherwise, Jazz and Blues. All the way.
Speaking of radio, does anyone else think that radio stations you can listen to while exploring were the best addition to Falloutverse ever?
Post by: scriver on June 11, 2015, 05:35:53 am
Post by: Krevsin on June 11, 2015, 05:37:18 am
Well, you can't have a mods raider gang (jazz) without having it at war with the rocker raiders.
the rocker raiders.Something like this?
(http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-620/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/3/31/1427821675682/5e25da37-61d7-44fd-a9a3-b2f5b8b5a791-620x372.jpeg)
Post by: Zangi on June 11, 2015, 12:13:27 pm
Oh god, now I'm worried. I DON'T WANT TO HAVE THE DOG MURDERED D:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Krevsin on June 11, 2015, 12:34:36 pm
Oh god, now I'm worried. I DON'T WANT TO HAVE THE DOG MURDERED D:Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gabeux on June 11, 2015, 01:22:26 pm
Oh god, now I'm worried. I DON'T WANT TO HAVE THE DOG MURDERED D:Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Putnam on June 11, 2015, 04:55:30 pm
Early rock making an appearence would be fine I assume (Bill Haley & his Comets, Elvis et cetera). Would make for an interesting quote-unoquote rebellious radio station. One controlled by Tunnel Snakes or summink.
Otherwise, Jazz and Blues. All the way.
Speaking of radio, does anyone else think that radio stations you can listen to while exploring were the best addition to Falloutverse ever?
New Vegas had Rocket 88, which many think to be the first Rock n' Roll song. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_88#Influence)
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 11, 2015, 05:58:47 pm
Weird, I swear there was no such track in New Vegas when I played it. Maybe some mods added it, but it was not present in vanilla NV.Early rock making an appearence would be fine I assume (Bill Haley & his Comets, Elvis et cetera). Would make for an interesting quote-unoquote rebellious radio station. One controlled by Tunnel Snakes or summink.
Otherwise, Jazz and Blues. All the way.
Speaking of radio, does anyone else think that radio stations you can listen to while exploring were the best addition to Falloutverse ever?
New Vegas had Rocket 88, which many think to be the first Rock n' Roll song. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_88#Influence)
Post by: umiman on June 11, 2015, 06:07:06 pm
Post by: Putnam on June 11, 2015, 07:25:57 pm
Post by: Ultimuh on June 14, 2015, 05:45:26 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: SealyStar on June 14, 2015, 08:47:41 pm
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 14, 2015, 08:58:34 pm
Post by: Mistercheif on June 14, 2015, 09:00:35 pm
The Twitch chat is poisonous. Except for the guy who did BabyRage when it showed the crib in the trailer. That's my guy.(http://i.imgur.com/raj26iQ.jpg)
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 14, 2015, 09:34:47 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on June 14, 2015, 09:36:43 pm
E: DISHONORED 2!? With grill protag, no less.
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 14, 2015, 09:40:20 pm
GRILL PROTAG FOR DISHONORED 2? ( <-- Didn't watch the stream)
Post by: Flying Dice on June 14, 2015, 09:44:02 pm
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 14, 2015, 09:49:51 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 14, 2015, 09:51:34 pm
Yeah, and she turns into The Darkness, too. Looks fucking cool. From the sound of it the plot is something about her being a fallen ruler trying to regain power. Name was Emily, IIRC. Gonna be sweeeeeet.OH SHIT NO WAY
YOU PLAY AS EMILY? FROM THE FIRST GAME?!
[Edit] OH NO WAY x2
YOU CAN BE EITHER EMILY OR CORVO AGAIN
EXTREME HYPE
Post by: SealyStar on June 14, 2015, 09:54:10 pm
That said, the voice-acting thing is true. Goddammit. Also, Mass Effect conversations. I'm not feeling great about this, either.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 14, 2015, 10:07:50 pm
Post by: SealyStar on June 14, 2015, 10:10:35 pm
Huh, free mobile game is not freemium. Interesting.Well, it kind of is - it's just a "soft freemium" instead of "pay to win freemium".
Also, the crafting mechanic looks fucking sweet.
EDIT EDIT: It's a full-blown RTS mod-inspired dealie. I'm gonna have to get a better computer just to play this fucking game. I'm counting on you, Bethesda, don't fuck this up and make me pass on it.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 14, 2015, 10:12:04 pm
Post by: Scripten on June 14, 2015, 10:13:34 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on June 14, 2015, 10:16:04 pm
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 14, 2015, 10:16:37 pm
OOOH
Hold me. Hold me. The hype...it's overpowering...
Post by: SealyStar on June 14, 2015, 10:17:41 pm
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 14, 2015, 10:19:51 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on June 14, 2015, 10:20:41 pm
Post by: Ozyton on June 14, 2015, 10:23:26 pm
Also helicopters
Now the question is: will the game be good?
Post by: Flying Dice on June 14, 2015, 10:25:35 pm
Post by: SealyStar on June 14, 2015, 10:27:45 pm
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 14, 2015, 10:31:02 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 14, 2015, 10:32:38 pm
FULL
DYNAMIC
BASE CUSTOMIZATION
Good christ, it's like Christmas and my birthday and Easter, but the candy is enjoyable gameplay elements and not candy.
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 14, 2015, 10:34:20 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on June 14, 2015, 10:38:37 pm
I'm exhausted.
That game, even if half of its there... would be staggering
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 14, 2015, 10:42:40 pm
I literally cannot tell you how long I have waited for any game with a realistic level of customization for things that should be customizable. I might cry.
Post by: Chiefwaffles on June 14, 2015, 10:47:20 pm
EDIT: Not a bad thing. Just an observation.
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 14, 2015, 10:50:30 pm
Post by: Vendayn on June 14, 2015, 10:50:34 pm
It looks like they just ripped the colony defense mods from New Vegas/Skyrim for the base building.
Well, this is actually great. The one for Skyrim was abandoned, never finished and the author was a douche. Plus, the one for Skyrim, New Vegas and Fallout 3 broke the game and caused save corruption, lag and TONS of issues. I think the one for Fallout 3 was abandoned too and never finished, but I haven't checked in a while...I remember he disappeared for ages and it wasn't finished at the time.
Good riddance to needing those broken mods. At least bethesda can make a FINISHED one that works.
Post by: Chiefwaffles on June 14, 2015, 10:53:58 pm
But... wow. Just about everything about this looks awesome. Vertibirds, base building, the extreme customization, the graphics...
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 14, 2015, 10:55:46 pm
Post by: ductape on June 14, 2015, 10:58:06 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 14, 2015, 11:01:44 pm
I... I think I'm going to have a stroke.guys
FULL
DYNAMIC
BASE CUSTOMIZATION
Good christ, it's like Christmas and my birthday and Easter, but the candy is enjoyable gameplay elements and not candy.
GUYS
GUUUUYS
THE HYPE TRAAAIN
IT'S AT MAX CAPACIIIITTTYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Post by: Cheedows on June 14, 2015, 11:05:55 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 14, 2015, 11:09:03 pm
the character customization
help me
Can anyone link a video of the whole thing? I didn't catch it. Just the character customization.
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 14, 2015, 11:10:03 pm
Also, the entire thing is up on their Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/bethesda/v/6189973 (http://www.twitch.tv/bethesda/v/6189973)
Post by: Flying Dice on June 14, 2015, 11:12:35 pm
It's a very German word. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude)Schadenfreude is taking pleasure in the suffering of others. I'm not sure anyone would be taking pleasure if it under-delivered.That's not it, I don't think. I thought it was "smug person walks up on top of the podium, expecting their name to be called, when the other guy's name is called."
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 14, 2015, 11:23:32 pm
I kind of liked power armor as, well, armor. I kind of hope they don't make it too much of a special thing. I like the whole mech suit thing they're going for, but I also would like to just sort of wear it around town and all that.You know what sucked? The most common power armor in the game was a disguise for a faction that no one likes. :C
Also, the entire thing is up on their Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/bethesda/v/6189973 (http://www.twitch.tv/bethesda/v/6189973)
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 14, 2015, 11:26:54 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 14, 2015, 11:29:03 pm
Also, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HYPE
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 14, 2015, 11:31:28 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 14, 2015, 11:35:42 pm
Post by: SealyStar on June 14, 2015, 11:38:02 pm
The BoS is supposed to threaten to kill you, they're soldiers, not politicians. They don't fuck around with wastelander scum.Seeing as this is a Bethesda game, I'm a bit worried that it'll have F3's Noblebright Good Guy Brotherhood, although my fear has been partially assuaged from a brief cut in the show wherein the player is killing Brotherhood troops.
Post by: Glowcat on June 14, 2015, 11:38:10 pm
East Coast Bos were the "good" group.
iirc, Chicago/Midwest BoS are the jerklord group
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 14, 2015, 11:39:02 pm
Post by: jetex1911 on June 14, 2015, 11:39:18 pm
iirc, Chicago/Midwest BoS are the jerklord group
Don't you work for them in Tactics?
Post by: Darkmere on June 14, 2015, 11:41:03 pm
iirc, Chicago/Midwest BoS are the jerklord group
Don't you work for them in Tactics?
Tactics is... a good game but lore-wise it makes no sense and should be treated as the opium dream of a madman.
Post by: SealyStar on June 14, 2015, 11:41:29 pm
West Coast BoS were the "neutral" group.West Coast BoS were basically "neutral evil" - they refused to help others even though they had the ability to, and fought bitterly with other factions (namely the NCR) to get their hands on old technology.
East Coast Bos were the "good" group.
iirc, Chicago/Midwest BoS are the jerklord group
Midwest are neutral good - they aren't angels but they are the good guys in Tactics (IIRC, it's been a while) and are more accepting of outsiders.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 14, 2015, 11:42:31 pm
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 14, 2015, 11:44:23 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 14, 2015, 11:45:20 pm
Post by: umiman on June 14, 2015, 11:49:22 pm
The only thing I took from the E3 reveal is that 60fps Twitch looks so sweet. That and the crafting looks great. I'm leery about everything else.
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 14, 2015, 11:51:09 pm
EDIT: Oh, wait, that was talking about a guy named Sturges. Still, sounds cool.
Post by: UristMcDwarf on June 15, 2015, 12:02:48 am
CUSTOMIZATION
DOGGO
GUNS
Post by: Shadowlord on June 15, 2015, 12:55:35 am
All I can say is that I'll be furious if Fallout 4 doesn't deliver. They brought this on themselves by putting out so much hype. There's a term for this that I can't remember.
Molyneuxing (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Molyneuxing), naturally.
Post by: miauw62 on June 15, 2015, 12:59:53 am
They literally call themselves "Knights" and "Paladins" and such while they go around killing anyone who won't roll over and let them take anything they want. Why is anyone ever surprised that they're condescending isolationist pricks?Because to somebody not very familiar with the Fallout lore they look like badasses with super nice tech, and automatically assign them "good guy" status, I think.
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 15, 2015, 01:03:58 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 15, 2015, 01:07:49 am
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 15, 2015, 01:09:39 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 15, 2015, 01:11:13 am
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 15, 2015, 01:14:31 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 15, 2015, 01:20:25 am
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 15, 2015, 01:28:53 am
Post by: Sergius on June 15, 2015, 01:52:58 am
So hyped right now. I want to build a baseball bat that launches grenades filled with shrapnel that turns into tiny plasma pistols to turn my enemies into goo.
Post by: Taricus on June 15, 2015, 01:58:05 am
They literally call themselves "Knights" and "Paladins" and such while they go around killing anyone who won't roll over and let them take anything they want. Why is anyone ever surprised that they're condescending isolationist pricks?So... they act like actual knights? :P
As for the Midwest BoS, I'd say they're lawful neutral in two endings, LE in one and LG in one. Sure, there's the whole forced labour thing, but that typically happened to raiders or other PoWs, and you did have to submit to brotherhood rule or otherwise face harassment. But they did keep the much worse assholes in check like raiders and such.
Now, for the West coast BoS? That shit was started by the elder being a hoarding git and trying to take the tech from the NCR. Plain and simple.
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 15, 2015, 02:15:33 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 15, 2015, 02:21:31 am
Post by: Flying Dice on June 15, 2015, 02:28:52 am
They literally call themselves "Knights" and "Paladins" and such while they go around killing anyone who won't roll over and let them take anything they want. Why is anyone ever surprised that they're condescending isolationist pricks?So... they act like actual knights? :P
As for the Midwest BoS, I'd say they're lawful neutral in two endings, LE in one and LG in one. Sure, there's the whole forced labour thing, but that typically happened to raiders or other PoWs, and you did have to submit to brotherhood rule or otherwise face harassment. But they did keep the much worse assholes in check like raiders and such.
Now, for the West coast BoS? That shit was started by the elder being a hoarding git and trying to take the tech from the NCR. Plain and simple.
That was the implication, yes.
And I'm not sure how "Bluh bluh but they had a treaty that affirmed their desire to be tech-hoarding pricks" is supposed to indicate that they're not tech-hoarding pricks. I'd call them Lawful Neutral if anything.
Post by: Krevsin on June 15, 2015, 02:29:38 am
HYPEHYPEHYPEHYPE
Post by: Ant on June 15, 2015, 02:32:19 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 15, 2015, 02:35:40 am
Also, Fallout guns have always been (hysterically) janky.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 15, 2015, 02:36:08 am
Butt-ugly and uninspiring, in comparison to previous installments.Did you even play FO3 or New Vegas? By and large those were less 'gun' and more 'vaguely gun-colored stick'. :P
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 15, 2015, 02:50:10 am
Post by: Krevsin on June 15, 2015, 02:51:59 am
I wonder if the enemies will also use modified weaponry.
If not, mods'll probably fix it.
Oh, and Power Armor with a friggin' jetpack. Best thing ever 10/10.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 15, 2015, 03:04:43 am
I SAW A JUMP BUTTON
JUST FALLOUT 4
Post by: Ant on June 15, 2015, 03:23:08 am
As for the cars and stuff, yeah the 3/NV engine is really clunky for stuff. But here we have new engine (?), and travel options have been expanded into skies, at least. Just hoping that wheeled inventory would be implemented directly, it ain't a game-breaker for me.
BTW, has anyone heard if there'd be Hardcore mode in this one?
Post by: umiman on June 15, 2015, 03:24:02 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 15, 2015, 03:33:57 am
Post by: Krevsin on June 15, 2015, 03:36:43 am
If there isn't, it'll be modded in.As will most things that bother people.
I think Bethesda games should automatically come with a note saying: "If any features in this game bother you, try mods"
Post by: Putnam on June 15, 2015, 03:38:00 am
Butt-ugly and uninspiring, in comparison to previous installments.Did you even play FO3 or New Vegas? By and large those were less 'gun' and more 'vaguely gun-colored stick'. :P
Not to mention that most of the guns in FO4 are basically the same as the ones from FO3.
Post by: Ultimuh on June 15, 2015, 03:38:16 am
If there isn't, it'll be modded in.As will most things that bother people.
I think Bethesda games should automatically come with a note saying: "If any features in this game bother you, try mods"
Someone will probably mod that into loading screen messages. If Bethesda still uses loadings screens.
Post by: umiman on June 15, 2015, 03:44:35 am
Post by: Putnam on June 15, 2015, 03:50:05 am
Post by: scriver on June 15, 2015, 03:51:06 am
I'm still kinda curious if they're going to use their beth.net thing to pave the way for the eventual paid mods.
What's this now?
Post by: Ultimuh on June 15, 2015, 03:52:00 am
I'm still kinda curious if they're going to use their beth.net thing to pave the way for the eventual paid mods.They better have a proper quality control thing going on first.
Post by: umiman on June 15, 2015, 03:54:02 am
I would be surprised if many of their weapon designs diverted very much from previous installments. A lot of them are very iconic.In the presentation, he was talking about how they'll be launching a new system for mods across all Bethesda games and systems(?).I'm still kinda curious if they're going to use their beth.net thing to pave the way for the eventual paid mods.
What's this now?
Considering not too long ago they teamed up with Valve to try and monetize mods, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to think it's going to happen with this. Especially since they won't have to give 30% to Valve.
Post by: MrWiggles on June 15, 2015, 04:11:34 am
Though during this presentation, I did have the thought that they may be attempting to turn FO4 into a service, over a product.
WHICH IS NOT ME BEING DISPARAGING OR SAYING ITS WRONG.
The Sims by EA, has done very well as being a service versus as being a product.
With the implied expansive scope of FO4, it could be done very well by similar structure of the the Sims. Buy what you want, at small prices for smaller things. Coming back for it for years.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 15, 2015, 04:15:32 am
Just a lot prettier. And now OOH LOOK IT'S A RIFLE EHEHEHEHEHEHEEHEHAHAHAHAHButt-ugly and uninspiring, in comparison to previous installments.Did you even play FO3 or New Vegas? By and large those were less 'gun' and more 'vaguely gun-colored stick'. :P
Not to mention that most of the guns in FO4 are basically the same as the ones from FO3.
I want to spend literal hours playing with weapons and armor.
Post by: Krevsin on June 15, 2015, 04:17:00 am
Most likely IMO is the "mod creators team up to make an officially approved DLC" variant or a "pay what you want" model.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 15, 2015, 04:26:25 am
1: That weird animation, when he literally got into the power armor. Thoughts and theories on that?
2: VERTIBIRDS. I SAW A PRESS Y TO JUMP. I WANT TO JUMP OUT OF THAT THING SO HARD. THOOOOUGHTS.
Post by: Majestic7 on June 15, 2015, 04:27:53 am
Post by: Krevsin on June 15, 2015, 04:33:51 am
Never underestimate the capacity of managers with no personal knowledge of the customers and the product to push through idiotic schemes to make some more dollahs.They did come up with an idiotic scheme to make some more USD and the debacle known as "Steam paid mods" happened. Managers may be idiotic and money grubbing, but even they know not to get burned twice.
Post by: Lightningfalcon on June 15, 2015, 04:35:18 am
...So let's talk about two things here.Don't forget that once you jump you can use your jetpack to control your landing.
1: That weird animation, when he literally got into the power armor. Thoughts and theories on that?
2: VERTIBIRDS. I SAW A PRESS Y TO JUMP. I WANT TO JUMP OUT OF THAT THING SO HARD. THOOOOUGHTS.
Post by: Vendayn on June 15, 2015, 04:48:53 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h35g4KsBYXc
Post by: scriver on June 15, 2015, 04:51:43 am
...So let's talk about two things here.
1: That weird animation, when he literally got into the power armor. Thoughts and theories on that?
Without having seen the clip in question, that immediately strikes me as something that would only be used for when you first unlock power armour training, or something like that.
Here is part of Bethesda's E3 video, but cut down to only Fallout 4. I recorded the whole thing. Probably got beaten to it, but took ages to upload and everything (internet was rather bad today for some reason). Still...for those who just want to see the Fallout stuff. Here is a link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h35g4KsBYXc
Thanks, I'll make sure to watch this later when on my computer.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on June 15, 2015, 05:38:05 am
guys
GUYS
GUUUUYS
THE HYPE TRAAAIN
IT'S AT MAX CAPACIIIITTTYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Hype train is already full? Damn.
Well then, I'll just hop on top of it and try to not fall off. Because damn that trailer... I need to upgrade my PC soon!
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 15, 2015, 05:47:55 am
It's a scene from this trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzV1GlDDlv8). (1:00) (https://youtu.be/OzV1GlDDlv8?t=60)...So let's talk about two things here.
1: That weird animation, when he literally got into the power armor. Thoughts and theories on that?
Without having seen the clip in question, that immediately strikes me as something that would only be used for when you first unlock power armour training, or something like that.
Some real-life spacesuits are worn the same way.
Post by: Astral on June 15, 2015, 05:57:34 am
Quote
Before concluding, Howard showed off a dramatic new set of Fallout features centered around building and crafting. Players can gather resources, scrap them for raw materials, and actually build entire new objects, from decorations to weapon upgrades all the way up to entire settlements made of crafted buildings. New buildings will attract NPC merchants, with new goods to sell. Players can even build electrical generators and machinery, connecting them together with wires to power them and make them do things, or control and tweak them with terminals.
This, this I'm looking forward to. Especially if it's supported natively and not full of hacky workarounds in FOSE/NVSE.
It also appears as if they added in versions of WMX/WME, and even applied it to the power armor. Not that it's a bad thing, but I feel it could've been done a while ago.
Post by: Yoink on June 15, 2015, 06:04:01 am
Fuck my earlier doubts. Just... fuck them. This looks amazing, and I probably would have loved it even if it was just more FO3.
And holy shit, it even looks like there are (at least some) vehicles. I long for the day I can speed across the wasteland on a motorcycle, trying not to let it catch a raider's stray bullet and explode under me.
Also I saw another trailer on the new weapon's modding and... well... you can mod baseball bats. Fuckin' baseball bats.
That's it, I'm going full Negan when this game comes out.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 15, 2015, 06:05:32 am
Post by: miauw62 on June 15, 2015, 06:26:38 am
Post by: Ultimuh on June 15, 2015, 06:27:49 am
(http://i.imgur.com/97t5fPq.png)Holy crap! That went out of orbit and straight into the void of space!
Post by: miauw62 on June 15, 2015, 06:29:28 am
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 15, 2015, 06:44:51 am
Also if anybody has a better E3 presentation video, PM me, the one in the OP currently is a bit stuttery sometimes.
Here is part of Bethesda's E3 video, but cut down to only Fallout 4. I recorded the whole thing. Probably got beaten to it, but took ages to upload and everything (internet was rather bad today for some reason). Still...for those who just want to see the Fallout stuff. Here is a link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h35g4KsBYXc
Post by: miauw62 on June 15, 2015, 06:45:23 am
Post by: JimboM12 on June 15, 2015, 06:47:39 am
In kinder words, this game looks seriously legit and am posting to watch, and my hype levels have reached over 9000.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 15, 2015, 07:05:52 am
New plan. TIME TO SAVE MONEY! :D
Post by: Kaje on June 15, 2015, 07:33:04 am
I genuinely cannot wait for this, it looks like everything I could have ever hoped for. Five months...what can I play for five months...!?
Post by: BFEL on June 15, 2015, 08:02:24 am
I genuinely cannot wait for this, it looks like everything I could have ever hyped for. Five months...what can I play for five months...!?
Post by: Kaje on June 15, 2015, 08:25:52 am
I genuinely cannot wait for this, it looks like everything I could have ever hyped for. Five months...what can I play for five months...!?
Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Hahahahahahahah. Hahahaha. Haha. Ha.
::)
Post by: penguinofhonor on June 15, 2015, 08:41:20 am
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 15, 2015, 08:57:16 am
Post by: TempAcc on June 15, 2015, 09:13:16 am
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 15, 2015, 09:15:31 am
Post by: umiman on June 15, 2015, 09:23:42 am
Post by: SealyStar on June 15, 2015, 09:50:09 am
-Showing off the armor at the beginning - is that third one some kind of air force flightsuit?
-Men can wear dresses confirmed.
-I'm really interested in where you can find the half-destroyed bear mascot head. In combination with the suit it looks like an early Kanye West album from hell.
-There are giant mosquito monsters called "bloodbugs" that actually jump on you and suck blood. I get the feeling people will be begging for cazadors to be reintroduced pretty quickly.
-Unfortunately, mirelurks are returning.
-Many enemies (raiders, super mutants) seem to come in several different types.
-There are also "synth" enemies. They seem to be more old-fashioned androids who don't actually look human.
-The radiation mechanic is still around.
-The role of vertibirds seems to have been dramatically expanded, as both player vehicles (unfortunately it doesn't look like you can pilot them) and enemies.
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 15, 2015, 09:53:43 am
On that note, I kind of hope there's still a Hardcore option.
Post by: SealyStar on June 15, 2015, 09:56:47 am
It's a nuclear wasteland; did you expect it to be a heatstroke mechanic instead? :PWell, they could dumb down the mechanic by, say, just making radioactive areas drain your health slowly. Or make it a vestigial mechanic that only applies in a handful of hard-to-reach areas (Fallout 2, for all its merits, had this problem).
On that note, I kind of hope there's still a Hardcore option.
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 15, 2015, 09:59:12 am
Post by: da_nang on June 15, 2015, 11:06:40 am
It had better not include an Iron Paywall, then. Or any other shameful shenanigans like in-game pop-up ads, "premium" versions etc.Never underestimate the capacity of managers with no personal knowledge of the customers and the product to push through idiotic schemes to make some more dollahs.
They did come up with an idiotic scheme to make some more USD and the debacle known as "Steam paid mods" happened. Managers may be idiotic and money grubbing, but even they know not to get burned twice.
Yeah, I think it's obvious (even to dumb executives) that trying the same system without significant changes will stir up the exact same shitstorm. The central message when they announce it needs to be "this isn't like last time."
Post by: Kaje on June 15, 2015, 11:52:58 am
I rewatched that gameplay trailer, now with the luxury of pausing and going back, and picked out a few interesting bits:
-Showing off the armor at the beginning - is that third one some kind of air force flightsuit?
There's a picture doing the rounds somewhere (I think it was on PC Gamer) of the character in jetpack (working) power armour - so it could well be!
Post by: redwallzyl on June 15, 2015, 12:24:57 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 15, 2015, 12:26:12 pm
lets just take a minute to appreciate the music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEKdt2y1-McLoving it
Post by: scriver on June 15, 2015, 12:30:19 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: TempAcc on June 15, 2015, 12:33:00 pm
I rewatched that gameplay trailer, now with the luxury of pausing and going back, and picked out a few interesting bits:
-Showing off the armor at the beginning - is that third one some kind of air force flightsuit?
There's a picture doing the rounds somewhere (I think it was on PC Gamer) of the character in jetpack (working) power armour - so it could well be!
The trailer does include a power armored player using a jetpack, so this has been pretty much confirmed.
Post by: nenjin on June 15, 2015, 12:34:22 pm
Anyways, since I haven't been following any of the FO4 news, did they announce paid mods for FO4?
Post by: Krevsin on June 15, 2015, 12:35:50 pm
Edit: Apparently skills will be in the game in one form or another.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: SealyStar on June 15, 2015, 12:46:27 pm
Post by: nenjin on June 15, 2015, 12:48:31 pm
I seriously doubt a Bethesda game would work completely without skills. I wouldn't be surprised if they've simplified the system yet again, but I'm willing to bet skills are just folded under the SPECIAL or perk tabs now.
If all skills relate to a core stat in some way, I can totally see someone at Bethesda going "Well then there's no need for skills anymore is there, just use the stat."
Post by: Krevsin on June 15, 2015, 12:49:49 pm
I seriously doubt a Bethesda game would work completely without skills. I wouldn't be surprised if they've simplified the system yet again, but I'm willing to bet skills are just folded under the SPECIAL or perk tabs now.
If all skills relate to a core stat in some way, I can totally see someone at Bethesda going "Well then there's no need for skills anymore is there, just use the stat."
Edit: Apparently skills will be in the game in one form or another.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sergius on June 15, 2015, 12:51:58 pm
Post by: Zangi on June 15, 2015, 02:22:42 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Downloading that iThing app for it now.
Post by: scriver on June 15, 2015, 02:30:23 pm
No, but they announced that the Xbone users will get to use mods. for free.
Edit: Apparently skills will be in the game in one form or another.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yeah, it seems likely they will just have a "Science" perk in four ranks or something.
Several of the skills only seem to work in increments of 25 anyway. Except for recipes and perk checks, which are generally in increments of 15. I wouldn't mind that much if they just give you 4-5 ranks instead of raising 1 point at a time. But maybe there'll be more ranks, like 10 or so.
Originally, if I recall correctly, the skills was in 1-100 because it was a percentile.
"The ghoul gave me some supplies... and some much needed friendship."[/spoiler]
Is that what they call hand jobs these days?
Post by: jocan2003 on June 15, 2015, 02:50:09 pm
Post by: Putnam on June 15, 2015, 02:57:18 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 15, 2015, 03:07:01 pm
Am i the only one who saw massive reference to Real Time settler mod? I mean real time settler mod allowed you to build a outpost-ish and get villager, make brahmin caravan between your settlement and even other towns, nice to finaly see something like that but official, now with modding open they will be able to expand on that system and the crafting... god te crafting, start with a pistol and end up with a big full automatic assault rifle haha.I thought it was obvious enough not to comment on. Those mods have been some of the most popular for EVERY ONE of their games so yes they finally wised up and took notice.
Post by: Metalax on June 15, 2015, 03:12:41 pm
start with a pistol and end up with a big full automatic assault rifle haha.
So this (https://youtu.be/TbbPCjXGS-w?t=12)? :P
Post by: Sergius on June 15, 2015, 03:21:02 pm
Originally, if I recall correctly, the skills was in 1-100 because it was a percentile.
Originally, it was a percentile that went above 100. Because penalties to distance, targeting and stuff would bring the effective skill down, and it capped at 95.
Post by: BigD145 on June 15, 2015, 03:28:02 pm
Oh jah... saw this picture in some Ars article on Bethseda E3 (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/06/fallout-4-dishonored-2-doom-bethesda-opens-up-with-both-barrels/).Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Downloading that iThing app for it now.
NO ANDROID YET
RAWR
It's Progress Quest inspired, as stated in the talk.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 15, 2015, 03:30:41 pm
Post by: Virtz on June 15, 2015, 03:33:33 pm
Lots of things that look worsened as well, tho. Enemies spawning out of nowhere so you can't even try to avoid them (the molerats). Most likely simplified skill system. Dialogues limited to 4 vague choices (Bioware style). Semi pre-defined player character with voice acting suggests they'll be trying to focus on writing. And they're terrible at that. It also means mods with content are fucked, cause whether they'll leave the PC silent or try to VA them, it'll stick out and look worse.
Post by: Ultimuh on June 15, 2015, 03:36:29 pm
Lots of things that look worsened as well, tho. Enemies spawning out of nowhere so you can't even try to avoid them (the molerats).That part kind of seemed like a scripted event to me.
As to show the audience the V.A.T.S is till a part of the franchise.
But that's just how I see it so far.
Post by: Gunner-Chan on June 15, 2015, 03:37:48 pm
Post by: Ultimuh on June 15, 2015, 03:40:26 pm
I would personally would LIKE if the wasteland could be more unpredictable than it has been. Otherwise it's a lot of empty walking most of the time.Well I like to stalk my prey, see the enemy at a distance and possibly try to snipe them from afar.
I don't like random spawning from behind.
Post by: SealyStar on June 15, 2015, 03:43:53 pm
In the Black Isle games, it could go up to 300%. 3 and NV just realized this was unnecessary.Originally, if I recall correctly, the skills was in 1-100 because it was a percentile.
Originally, it was a percentile that went above 100. Because penalties to distance, targeting and stuff would bring the effective skill down, and it capped at 95.
While it's possible a new skill system would "dumb down" the game, it could just be a re-streamlining, since most checks in 3 and NV were at multiples of either 25 (as said before) or 10 (as forgotten about).
Post by: nenjin on June 15, 2015, 03:49:56 pm
Then again, considering Skyrim did away with stats entirely, and just went with Skills / Perks, maybe they're effectively doing the same thing here. And I know from Skyrim that skill progression effectively felt worthless. What mattered was whether you had perks or not. It didn't leave me with a sense of progression in Skyrim, just very dramatic lurches between ineffective and way too effective once you'd bought a perk. Stealth was pretty much a joke under that design.
Post by: scriver on June 15, 2015, 03:59:38 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on June 15, 2015, 04:18:59 pm
IDK, that was always one of the most boring parts to me. With half-decent Perception you'd see every enemy on your compass long before you saw it, and you could just snipe them all from just inside the draw distance. Yawn. What I'm hoping is that there will be cases where animal spawns, rather than wandering around on the surface, are underground and only trigger if you walk close enough. Not random, just set up in a way that can take you out of your comfort zone.I would personally would LIKE if the wasteland could be more unpredictable than it has been. Otherwise it's a lot of empty walking most of the time.Well I like to stalk my prey, see the enemy at a distance and possibly try to snipe them from afar.
I don't like random spawning from behind.
Post by: Sergius on June 15, 2015, 04:21:26 pm
In the Black Isle games, it could go up to 300%. 3 and NV just realized this was unnecessary.Originally, if I recall correctly, the skills was in 1-100 because it was a percentile.
Originally, it was a percentile that went above 100. Because penalties to distance, targeting and stuff would bring the effective skill down, and it capped at 95.
While it's possible a new skill system would "dumb down" the game, it could just be a re-streamlining, since most checks in 3 and NV were at multiples of either 25 (as said before) or 10 (as forgotten about).
I covered the 10s with 15s, as those 10s are usually multiples of 15 (30, 45, 60, 90). Technically, they're multiples of 5 with HUGE gaps. In the end, each skill has only like 10 relevant milestones.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 15, 2015, 04:27:22 pm
My pants, they shall be shat.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on June 15, 2015, 04:52:33 pm
Well, Deathclaws can pop from the ground now.I do hope that they aren't turned into 'better have that power armour or you'll get insta-killled!'
My pants, they shall be shat.
Because as cool looking as that finisher was, it did seem like the character was doing resonable damage to it, though it seemed to pretty much instantly kill him.
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 15, 2015, 05:17:36 pm
Well, Deathclaws can pop from the ground now.I do hope that they aren't turned into 'better have that power armour or you'll get insta-killled!'
My pants, they shall be shat.
Because as cool looking as that finisher was, it did seem like the character was doing resonable damage to it, though it seemed to pretty much instantly kill him.
Considering that the character was wearing the armored vault suit throughout the demo, he might just been underleveled, or his armor was shitty.
Post by: Wimopy on June 15, 2015, 05:25:22 pm
I mean... walking around in the wasteland is supposed to be super dangerous, not boring.
Expect to have stealth or a specific perk give a reduction effect to ambushes, though. Or a mod that makes it like that.
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 15, 2015, 05:30:45 pm
The new stuff is a bit further in, the beginning is all from the E3 demo.
Post by: jocan2003 on June 15, 2015, 05:41:15 pm
Post by: JimboM12 on June 15, 2015, 05:41:29 pm
More seriously, the weapon customization allows you to turn a pipe pistol into a custom pipe assault rifle with scope. My hype rose more levels again. But Virtzs problems with the dialogue wheel/thing and voice acted character are keeping it from rising too high. Have we heard any solid news about modding of the game yet?
Post by: Chiefwaffles on June 15, 2015, 05:46:19 pm
Post by: Zangi on June 15, 2015, 05:51:43 pm
Late to the party. Holy Carp. The modular build up base thing is pretty awesome.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on June 15, 2015, 06:20:32 pm
Guys, I was watching the E3 demo again, and I was wondering if there's anywhere I can find an iOS emulator solely so i can get Fallout Shelter.What I'm wondering is if (if skills are still going to be in) what might happen to the repair skill, if it stays, it might be way more useful.
More seriously, the weapon customization allows you to turn a pipe pistol into a custom pipe assault rifle with scope. My hype rose more levels again. But Virtzs problems with the dialogue wheel/thing and voice acted character are keeping it from rising too high. Have we heard any solid news about modding of the game yet?
Post by: Flying Dice on June 15, 2015, 06:29:21 pm
That's. Uh. Pretty much how Deathclaws have been. If you go at them with a mediocre rifle and weak armor, you're going to get wrecked unless you're playing on super babby mode and/or exploiting terrain features to make yourself unreachable.Well, Deathclaws can pop from the ground now.I do hope that they aren't turned into 'better have that power armour or you'll get insta-killled!'
My pants, they shall be shat.
Because as cool looking as that finisher was, it did seem like the character was doing resonable damage to it, though it seemed to pretty much instantly kill him.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 15, 2015, 06:33:31 pm
Post by: nenjin on June 15, 2015, 07:36:42 pm
Been wishing 40k games had done something like that years ago.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 15, 2015, 07:46:47 pm
Post by: TheBronzePickle on June 15, 2015, 07:54:49 pm
Post by: Sergius on June 15, 2015, 08:07:59 pm
Am i the only one very happy how they worked with the power armor? I mean its not just an *item* you shove in your inventory like it were mere clothing, it is nearly like a vehicule, and that animatiojn to get in, GOD DAMMIT!!! Hmmmm.... love it
99% of my hype is actually from having power armor behave like a vehicle. Another 99% is about customizing armor and weapons. The remaining 99% is about creating your own settlement.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 15, 2015, 08:34:51 pm
Well, we saw them nail a motherhubbing Vertibird, which was clearly in the air.
FO3 had vertibirds, too, but they did not act like other flying enemies. Bloatflies, for example, couldn't take off.
Post by: TempAcc on June 15, 2015, 09:00:08 pm
Post by: UXLZ on June 15, 2015, 09:40:01 pm
Pros:
Large expensive world.
Reasonably varied loot.
Neat little easter eggs and stuff scattered around.
Cons:
Combat that's absolutely shite.
Puddle-like depth.
Clunky engine.
SHITTY PC PORT. (I don't know if FO4 is Console->PC or PC->Console, though.)
Still, we'll see how they handle this. My experience with all the hype around Skyrim and how that game actually ended up makes me a cynic. I'm glad for Fallout 4, but something tells me there's a good chance I'll prefer NV.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 15, 2015, 09:43:22 pm
I'm torn. On the one hand, default prettiness and big world says PC to me. OTOH, that graphic for the dialogue tree looked suspiciously like a four-button controller face.
Post by: Neonivek on June 15, 2015, 10:31:26 pm
Post by: Putnam on June 15, 2015, 10:32:01 pm
That's the thing though, they specifically mentioned that they had worked a lot on improving the feel of the combat. They wouldn't have said a word if it was still the same slog.
I'm torn. On the one hand, default prettiness and big world says PC to me. OTOH, that graphic for the dialogue tree looked suspiciously like a four-button controller face.
It literally was. That was an Xbox One copy of FO4 that they were showing, looks like, based on the button configuration of the dialogue.
Post by: jocan2003 on June 15, 2015, 10:41:18 pm
Post by: scriver on June 16, 2015, 12:32:50 am
Now that there's proper flying with the jetpacks, I wonder if there'll be actually flying enemies? Cazadors and the like only ever hovered above the ground and never flew, so it was easy to wall-walk to New Vegas.
Unlikely, I think. Based only on their track record of not making AI able to jump or fly in any way. Enemy Vertibirds would probably be an exception, or work like dragons in Skyrim with set interaction-with-environment points. I'm not sure if Skyrim's dragons "really" flew or moved on an invisible pillar, but I can't remember them having issues with pathfinding or doing the whole "fly-up-and-down-with-the-ground-elevation" dance.
So in short. Flying Vertibirds? Possibly. Flying creatures, like the Bloodbug we saw, or individual NPCs? Not very likely. But they nay surprise me, I guess.
Post by: Aedel on June 16, 2015, 12:39:03 am
We can crossdress now. Howard wore a dress, that means the clothes aren't gender-based now. Men can wear dresses and women can wear suits now! Rev up those pipboys for the endless hours of playing dress up!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Cheedows on June 16, 2015, 12:41:13 am
Post by: Neonivek on June 16, 2015, 01:40:55 am
Quote
I'm not sure if Skyrim's dragons "really" flew or moved on an invisible pillar
Invisible Pillar with extra movement points.
Post by: scriver on June 16, 2015, 01:41:51 am
There's something we missed, I think.
We can crossdress now. Howard wore a dress, that means the clothes aren't gender-based now. Men can wear dresses and women can wear suits now! Rev up those pipboys for the endless hours of playing dress up!Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm sorry to be a party pooper, but there's really no reason to assume that much, and I'm not going to be convinced until I see some more crossdressing shots. It's more likely that dress is a special dress of equality than that bethesda has changed their formula on this matter for all dresses and/or other clothes.
Won't stop me from running around in the wasteland in a pink dress and a minigun come this autumn, though.
Oh who am I kidding I'll never be able to run FO4...
Post by: Draignean on June 16, 2015, 01:57:38 am
Now, I've got a little less than five months to ration out the money needed to buy a desktop capable of running this thing...
*I dearly wish there was an interview of Todd Howard actually explaining what he meant by dynamic, without once having to resort to the word dynamic. It would probably be rather entertaining.
Post by: Ultimuh on June 16, 2015, 02:34:05 am
I am sure once Fallout 4 is done I'll get to hear about how terrible it is and how all the features are under-utilized and how Fallout New Vegas not only had some of those features, but also had them in mods.
Glad to see your optimism hasn't changed.
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 16, 2015, 02:35:32 am
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on June 16, 2015, 02:59:09 am
-Hand-made firearms
-Destructible, layered armor
-Decent effects
-Melee capability
-Crit meter
If they expand more on the armor simulation, (so you can manually aim at weak/uncovered locations), I'd be very impressed.
If it's possible to do with the kit & bethesda hasn't already done it by release, I bet such an expansion will be a very popular & very early mod.
Post by: Krevsin on June 16, 2015, 03:11:26 am
I watched all the E3 videos today. It was... beautiful. The gun/armor/township customization section was just jaw-dropping. I have a few minor quibbles that I will bury under massive fanboy optimism. I think the four choice conversation system with cutting between faces (I know it's 'dynamic'* but we both know what the default is going to be) is limited and massively derivative of the ME and DA systems. I also think the fact that the world keeps going while you're in VATS is good, but that it'll be annoying as all hell if they don't fix the glitch where the body map mistakes your repeated attempts to click the head as a command to fire six rounds into the target's armpit.Didn't he say that you can play the conversations in first person as well?
Post by: cerapa on June 16, 2015, 03:20:35 am
That's the thing though, they specifically mentioned that they had worked a lot on improving the feel of the combat. They wouldn't have said a word if it was still the same slog.
I'm torn. On the one hand, default prettiness and big world says PC to me. OTOH, that graphic for the dialogue tree looked suspiciously like a four-button controller face.
It literally was. That was an Xbox One copy of FO4 that they were showing, looks like, based on the button configuration of the dialogue.
You do realize you can plug controllers into a PC?
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 16, 2015, 03:28:19 am
Post by: Putnam on June 16, 2015, 03:46:42 am
also yeah I use an xbox 360 controller extensively on PC
Post by: miauw62 on June 16, 2015, 04:03:13 am
Post by: UXLZ on June 16, 2015, 04:06:17 am
"Hey, everyone else at Bethesda, let's plug an Xbox One controller into this computer for the sole purpose of tricking the audience into thinking the graphics will look this good on Xbox One." :P
I'm pretty sure that's actually industry standard these days...
Post by: Draignean on June 16, 2015, 04:08:48 am
That's what I was pointing out in the parentheses. The point is that the factory default is almost undoubtedly the derivative cutting implementation.I watched all the E3 videos today. It was... beautiful. The gun/armor/township customization section was just jaw-dropping. I have a few minor quibbles that I will bury under massive fanboy optimism. I think the four choice conversation system with cutting between faces (I know it's 'dynamic'* but we both know what the default is going to be) is limited and massively derivative of the ME and DA systems. I also think the fact that the world keeps going while you're in VATS is good, but that it'll be annoying as all hell if they don't fix the glitch where the body map mistakes your repeated attempts to click the head as a command to fire six rounds into the target's armpit.Didn't he say that you can play the conversations in first person as well?
Some games (Risk of Rain, Zineth) effectively NEED a controller to be played on PC.Speak for yourself, RoR plays beautifully on a pc if you remap your actions to the numpad.
Post by: BFEL on June 16, 2015, 06:41:59 am
Guys, I was watching the E3 demo again, and I was wondering if there's anywhere I can find an iOS emulator solely so i can get Fallout Shelter
Yes please, I need to play this as well, but own no mobile devices. HALP.
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 16, 2015, 07:02:09 am
Post by: UXLZ on June 16, 2015, 07:11:00 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 16, 2015, 07:12:21 am
This one (https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/obHh2IUVkqcVCuzjfYZ4mmNSGQE=/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3791412/Fallout4_Concept_RedRocket_1434323471.0.jpg) has a very S.T.A.L.K.E.R. vibe, in my opinion.No more than any other decrepit building, to be honest.
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on June 16, 2015, 08:53:39 am
It feels like it needs quite a bit more polish. And in the meantime we don't have enough info to compensate-Guys, I was watching the E3 demo again, and I was wondering if there's anywhere I can find an iOS emulator solely so i can get Fallout Shelter
Yes please, I need to play this as well, but own no mobile devices. HALP.
Getting more people takes AGES & building unlocks are based upon total pop
Quests are a crapshoot- some are laughably easy (kill 30 enemies outside the vault) while others are insane (birth 5 dwellers, raise a dweller's special stats).
I'm still not sure how/when enemies scale up, but they're starting to do real damage, even with my best (and only) tactic
Building efficiencies are a mystery- if I understand it correctly, building them wider increases the total amount of workers needed to run it efficiently, while upgrading it increases the difficulty of the 'disasters' that can befall them. So unless you're at least mid-game, don't upgrade your rooms to lvl 3 or the cockroaches will murder you.
Seems like the vault door ONLY serves to slow them down. You don't want to fight in that area as you can only fit 2 people in there, while there are always 3 raiders.
Instead, use the time the door buys you to assemble 6 defenders in the nearest 3+-tile-wide room you have & take them on with better odds.
If I were to restart the game, I'd design it like so- a couple pairs of rooms on each side of the first elevator shaft which can be evacuated/left in the hands of pregger ladies- slows the raiders down, as they run left, then right, then proceed to the next floor looking for people to kill.
Then, two large rooms side-by-side which split the elevator to the rest of the base.
This would allow you to have two teams to swap between, and also prevents them from running ALL OVER THE BASE, something they like to do if you don't kill them fast enough.
And that's pretty much it.
I also recommend maintaining fire-breaks between clusters of rooms. Disasters spread to neighboring tiles, and while none of my rooms have been affected twice by the same disaster, that might not be the case if the disaster were allowed to 'echo'.
Spent hours with this going yesterday, gotta say it felt kinda torturous.
Without handicapping my team by turning all the women into baby-factories, I only hit 21 people after, shit, 12 hours of activity.
All that time was spent waiting for the damn babies to pop out, and then the kids to grow up, so I could hit that magic cap of 20 & start reeling them in with the radio station (sometimes).
Forget about walk-up customers. They trickle off almost immediately.
Hope you get lucky with the lunch boxes & get some good people, and PRAY for good missions because you can only cancel one of them and several are really, really nasty. (birth 5 dwellers, increase a special point, acquire 5 simultaneous 100% happy colonists, have people scavving for 7 continuous hours...)
And in the meantime you're glued to the screen with the click-to-collect shit.
But mm is opening lunchboxes nice...
Post by: Zangi on June 16, 2015, 08:58:23 am
At least he will be pleasantly surprised if it doesn't go his way. :PI am sure once Fallout 4 is done I'll get to hear about how terrible it is and how all the features are under-utilized and how Fallout New Vegas not only had some of those features, but also had them in mods.
Glad to see your optimism hasn't changed.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 16, 2015, 09:32:31 am
Also, games on my pip-boy? YES PLEASE
Post by: AoshimaMichio on June 16, 2015, 11:06:19 am
...or the cockroaches will murder you.
the cockroaches will murder
the cockroaches
ITS RADROACHES YOU INFIDEL!
Post by: Itnetlolor on June 16, 2015, 06:38:48 pm
I'm not gonna lie, the only big concern I have so far is modding in general. The game looks so damned polished, modders will need to work damned hard to make mods that look nearly as.Definitely helps for waiting on things to happen, especially when you can't just conveniently sleep an hour straight or so; so to keep you busy during the few minutes you're waiting on something to fall just to plan and such. Of course, I think the games can bite you in the ass and alert the nearby enemies to your location far more easily (or a clever deathclaw may be sneaking around you while you're busy saving the town from falling nukes.). That is, unless you turn off the sound first, if available.
Also, games on my pip-boy? YES PLEASE
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 16, 2015, 06:50:03 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 16, 2015, 06:51:30 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 16, 2015, 07:01:37 pm
Post by: Vendayn on June 16, 2015, 07:03:47 pm
You know someones going to do it...
Post by: Mistercheif on June 16, 2015, 07:12:41 pm
That's the thing though, they specifically mentioned that they had worked a lot on improving the feel of the combat. They wouldn't have said a word if it was still the same slog.
I'm torn. On the one hand, default prettiness and big world says PC to me. OTOH, that graphic for the dialogue tree looked suspiciously like a four-button controller face.
It literally was. That was an Xbox One copy of FO4 that they were showing, looks like, based on the button configuration of the dialogue.
Having watched both the Bethesda and Xbox presentations, there was definitely less graphical fidelity in the demo at the Xbox presentation. I'm willing to bet that used a PC at their presentation and the Xbox version at Microsoft's, and used a controller for both.
Post by: Aedel on June 16, 2015, 07:13:13 pm
you dont understand
Just play it with a supersledge and raiders man.
Post by: Itnetlolor on June 16, 2015, 08:36:04 pm
Waka waka waka (ingests some Rad-X, mentats, and etc.) waka waka waka (ingests some (Super) Jet) raiders start running until they're blue to the face. Post-contact, they're none more than eyes left. Doing this inside the ruins of a library or bookstore would be like a maze while at it.you dont understandJust play it with a supersledge and raiders man.
Post by: Kruniac on June 16, 2015, 09:19:26 pm
Quote
ALSO YOU CAN CUSTOMIZE YOUR POWER ARMOR
Shit eye candy.
Quote
AND THERES A DOG
Every other Fallout game.
Quote
AND THERES CUSTOM WEAPONS HOLY SHIT
Getting more interesting.
Quote
ALSO YOU CAN BUILD DYNAMICALLY IN THE WORLD AND HAVE SETTLEMENTS IN VANILLA
10/10 will play.
And that's how simple it is to design a game properly. Just make features that actually matter, like dynamic building.
All in all I got more emotional at watching the trailer (Same old music, same old narration, same old Fallout!!! :) ) than I did by watching gameplay elements. It's still just Elder Scrolls in the post apocalyptic wasteland, but I'm hoping that this time around they do it properly. Survival elements, settlement management, dynamic challenges.
Now if we can just get a good Jagged Alliance and X-Com remake, we'll be golden. :D
Post by: Putnam on June 16, 2015, 09:19:55 pm
QuoteALSO YOU CAN CUSTOMIZE YOUR POWER ARMOR
Shit eye candy.
It's almost surely actually functional.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 16, 2015, 10:46:38 pm
We already know that area-specific damage is possible in the engine; PN added separate head DT and higher headshot damage to New Vegas, and a number of mods added in full-body area-specific damage to Skyrim. That the armor has been broken up like that from "Body" + helmet + boots in FO4 strongly suggests that they've also implemented area-specific damage, certainly in terms of harm to your armor, and possibly also in terms of variable damage based on hit locations.
Post by: UXLZ on June 16, 2015, 11:22:44 pm
This one (https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/obHh2IUVkqcVCuzjfYZ4mmNSGQE=/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3791412/Fallout4_Concept_RedRocket_1434323471.0.jpg) has a very S.T.A.L.K.E.R. vibe, in my opinion.No more than any other decrepit building, to be honest.
Ah, actually, yeah, not so much any more. I thought the concrete was water.
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 16, 2015, 11:30:53 pm
The reflections seem to be puddles - Fallout 4 has a proper weather system.This one (https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/obHh2IUVkqcVCuzjfYZ4mmNSGQE=/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3791412/Fallout4_Concept_RedRocket_1434323471.0.jpg) has a very S.T.A.L.K.E.R. vibe, in my opinion.No more than any other decrepit building, to be honest.
Ah, actually, yeah, not so much any more. I thought the concrete was water.
Post by: Svampapa on June 17, 2015, 12:15:21 am
Post by: Draignean on June 17, 2015, 12:18:57 am
The reflections seem to be puddles - Fallout 4 has a proper weather system.This one (https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/obHh2IUVkqcVCuzjfYZ4mmNSGQE=/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3791412/Fallout4_Concept_RedRocket_1434323471.0.jpg) has a very S.T.A.L.K.E.R. vibe, in my opinion.No more than any other decrepit building, to be honest.
Ah, actually, yeah, not so much any more. I thought the concrete was water.
Well, the concept art has a proper weather system. That's about all we know.
Post by: Putnam on June 17, 2015, 12:27:11 am
Oblivion with guns. Rabble, rabble!
skyrim with guns
also, minus idiotic deadlines since Todd Howard decided those were stupid and didn't want to reveal games before they were nearly ready
Post by: Neonivek on June 17, 2015, 12:33:19 am
If you have to get hyped couldn't you get hyped over features with substance rather then just "Ohh my! You can chose preset alterations that have stats, something that was in New Vegas except now it was a graphical interface!" and "Ohh my! now you can build ugly houses!"
Have we learned nothing from Spore?
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on June 17, 2015, 12:37:11 am
And yet instead of showing the important stuff they just threw fluff on the screen and people still ate it up.Yes, it was that, while flawed, Spore was cool.
If you have to get hyped couldn't you get hyped over features with substance rather then just "Ohh my! You can chose preset alterations that have stats, something that was in New Vegas except now it was a graphical interface!" and "Ohh my! now you can build ugly houses!"
Have we learned nothing from Spore?
I liked Spore.
Also, what? Preset alterations? You mean the weapon upgrades, right? Because I wasn't aware you could turn a laser pistol into an automatic laser shotgun in New Vegas.
Seriously tell me if there is a mod that lets me do that in New Vegas I need that.
Post by: Putnam on June 17, 2015, 12:39:04 am
Also, the weapon mods are pretty clearly proper modifications, a la Borderlands or something (meaning Borderlands' internal modular weapon creation system as opposed to literal weapon mods).
Post by: Neonivek on June 17, 2015, 12:39:20 am
Quote
Because I wasn't aware you could turn a laser pistol into an automatic laser shotgun in New Vegas.
Yeah there were some pretty impressive upgrades for some weapons. Some which radically changed how the weapon was to be used. Also they were switching the weapons to some in the same category... Those weren't all the same weapon.
Post by: Putnam on June 17, 2015, 12:40:26 am
That's not even remotely a bad thing and definitely does not mean "preset alterations".
Post by: Neonivek on June 17, 2015, 12:43:02 am
No, but it looks like "category of weapon" is synonymous with "weapon" now and a laser pistol is just a laser rifle with different parts.
That's not even remotely a bad thing and definitely does not mean "preset alterations".
Naw, I personally think the Laser Rifle and the Laser Pistol were two ENTIRELY different weapons... They were just switching to them so you could see all their modifications.
Especially since altering them to be entirely different weapons wasn't demonstrated, nor was there a section that would explain where that came from.
I think they just switched from Laser Pistol to Laser Rifle.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on June 17, 2015, 12:45:06 am
No, but it looks like "category of weapon" is synonymous with "weapon" now and a laser pistol is just a laser rifle with different parts.I do hope you can have multiple of the same weapon, though, so you can have a laser sniper rifle and a pistol las-scatter.
That's not even remotely a bad thing and definitely does not mean "preset alterations".
Speaking of, I'm checking out the weapon mods Here (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas_weapon_mods) and the biggest 'radical change' for any weapon with a single weapon mod is the laser beam splitter.
Post by: Putnam on June 17, 2015, 12:52:40 am
No, but it looks like "category of weapon" is synonymous with "weapon" now and a laser pistol is just a laser rifle with different parts.
That's not even remotely a bad thing and definitely does not mean "preset alterations".
Naw, I personally think the Laser Rifle and the Laser Pistol were two ENTIRELY different weapons... They were just switching to them so you could see all their modifications.
Especially since altering them to be entirely different weapons wasn't demonstrated, nor was there a section that would explain where that came from.
I think they just switched from Laser Pistol to Laser Rifle.
Nope, switching from a grip to a stock switched the laser pistol to a laser rifle:
https://youtu.be/SH8HGslrINU?t=217
Also, Todd Howard is explicitly saying you're turning it into a Not Laser Pistol.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 17, 2015, 01:33:53 am
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on June 17, 2015, 01:39:39 am
I'm going to spend approximately seven hours until I have the perfect combination of stupid name and effective weapon.Actually, that makes me think, are there going to be any Unique weapons now?
Post by: Draignean on June 17, 2015, 01:46:26 am
Post by: Gunner-Chan on June 17, 2015, 01:54:13 am
Actually, that makes me think, are there going to be any Unique weapons now?
I don't see why not... A unique weapon could easily be like it was in the last 2 games, a standard weapon only with the addition of a unique twist. ... Only maybe now you can take that unique part and stick it on other guns.
And eventually end up with a gun that's all unique one of a kind parts.
That would be cool.
Post by: Yoink on June 17, 2015, 01:57:13 am
You could travel the land murdering people, take the unique components of their armour, stitch them onto your own outfit and wear them as trophies.
Post by: Aedel on June 17, 2015, 07:02:12 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Some fellow on 4chan found some interesting things about Fallout 4. I didn't see anyone talking about it so here, have a giant image full of >implications
Post by: Flying Dice on June 17, 2015, 07:18:07 pm
...They had more than just that on screen. Like proper combat, sprinting, etc.
Also, the weapon mods are pretty clearly proper modifications, a la Borderlands or something (meaning Borderlands' internal modular weapon creation system as opposed to literal weapon mods).
I was trying to figure out what it was reminding me of, and you picked it right out. That's exactly what it looks to be, save as a weapon creation system that's player-controlled instead of randomized.
I'm also hoping that they've managed to work out underbarrel attachments. Flashlights, masterkey shotguns, UBLs, flamethrowers, Rippers, the works.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on June 17, 2015, 07:20:12 pm
Post by: Putnam on June 17, 2015, 07:39:36 pm
Also, about underbarrel attachments: a bayonet was visible during the footage.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 17, 2015, 07:49:42 pm
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on June 17, 2015, 08:12:17 pm
Things started to really break down at around 30 colonists. iPad just couldn't keep up. Everything took longer to do, base needs were right at the limit of having to expand, yadda yadda.
Come back after sleeping, all hell breaks loose. Population explosion from all the babies, radio seekers & returning wastelanders. The wastelanders I didn't recall died of course, so I've got about 6 corpses to revive. Everything's depleted. I'm overflowing with weaponry & equipment I need to disperse & sell.
Nasty streak of rush failures puts everything into a red slump. No one's happy/healthy as I try to process the wastelanders/equipment, build new buildings EVERYWHERE to meet the demand, try to look at the new colonists and assign their roles, manage the disasters, (as ALWAYS there was a team of Raiders chomping at the bit for my return, itching to further complicate things), and by now, at ~48 colonists, I just CAN'Tdeal with the choking UI anymore. Everything takes 3-10x as long as it should, and I can't keep up.
I think vault 278 is at the end of the line.
In other news, I think the primary purpose of level is to make sure dwellers 'die' eventually. They become too expensive to revive.
Also, 3 tiles is the max room size.
Post by: Zangi on June 17, 2015, 09:13:43 pm
Playing fallout shelter on my iPad-Yea, I stopped after I realized that the constant crashes was cause my iThing was not supported. Too old and slow. (Apple doesn't tell you how much ram the iThing has anywhere.)
It gets pretty hard to keep food/water/power up if you keep too many people at home. Which becomes a cycle of fail as not having enough food/water = less health and morale. Low morale also lowers production... Players may naturally disinclined to send people out cause of low health, but you really do need to send em out to die so you can recover food/water stocks.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 18, 2015, 01:03:13 am
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 18, 2015, 02:28:44 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Some fellow on 4chan found some interesting things about Fallout 4. I didn't see anyone talking about it so here, have a giant image full of >implications
As nice as it could be, they should hold their horses - the DC Brotherhood has an identical logo (mirrored logo of the Western BoS)
Spoiler: Above, the Midwestern BoS, below, the Capital BoS (click to show/hide)
Bethesda will probably make them the Designated Good Guys, while the Institute will become the Designated Bad Guys, and the plot will be similar to Fallout 3 in terms of moral choices.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 18, 2015, 02:31:37 am
Post by: Putnam on June 18, 2015, 02:34:11 am
And there's custom power armor, which was one of the primary reasons for Tactics to be iffy on canon.
Also blimps.
I'm not exactly invested into the idea, though
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 18, 2015, 02:37:03 am
Post by: Neonivek on June 18, 2015, 02:40:09 am
Besides...Didn't the DC/Easternmost Chapter crash their blimps?
And they can't make more because?
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 18, 2015, 02:45:10 am
But we definitely saw in the presentation the main character fighting BoS.Bethesda probably showed all concerned people that it's possible to turn against the Brotherhood. There was nothing about their moral standing.
Post by: Krevsin on June 18, 2015, 02:50:16 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 18, 2015, 02:58:28 am
Because, this is a video game! We need protagonists to do anything important! :PBesides...Didn't the DC/Easternmost Chapter crash their blimps?
And they can't make more because?
In all seriousness, they need a lot of shit to make a working airship.
Post by: Neonivek on June 18, 2015, 03:00:05 am
Because, this is a video game! We need protagonists to do anything important! :PBesides...Didn't the DC/Easternmost Chapter crash their blimps?
And they can't make more because?
In all seriousness, they need a lot of shit to make a working airship.
Well this would apply if this was anywhere else in the world that still scavenged their weapons and armor (and you still do in this game because... well... fictional worlds advance REALLY slowly)
But this place should have some factories, power plants, and all that.
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 18, 2015, 03:01:28 am
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on June 18, 2015, 03:02:07 am
To be fair, the game is centred 200 years after the nukes hit, though I doubt mining operations would have been set up, even given two centuries.Because, this is a video game! We need protagonists to do anything important! :PBesides...Didn't the DC/Easternmost Chapter crash their blimps?
And they can't make more because?
In all seriousness, they need a lot of shit to make a working airship.
Well this would apply if this was anywhere else in the world that still scavenged their weapons and armor (and you still do in this game because... well... fictional worlds advance REALLY slowly)
But this place should have some factories, power plants, and all that.
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 18, 2015, 03:05:20 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 18, 2015, 03:08:06 am
Also, random thought: Based off of what we've seen, Power Armor might actually be powered. As in, you need to supply it. Fission batteries, most likely.
This excites me.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on June 18, 2015, 03:09:52 am
Takes a lot more than a quarry to build an airship.But it's one of the things.
Also, random thought: Based off of what we've seen, Power Armor might actually be powered. As in, you need to supply it. Fission batteries, most likely.
This excites me.
Though that is a good point, if they were gonna have something like that it would have needed a lot of helium, or something like that, at least.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 18, 2015, 03:11:23 am
Besides...Didn't the DC/Easternmost Chapter crash their blimps?
And they can't make more because?
Because the Capital Wasteland is overflowing with large-scale mechanical parts, sheet metal fabrication shops, and massive pressurized helium storage units, right? Oh, oh, maybe they build new blimps out of concrete rubble and dead Supermutants and filled them with filtered... seawater. ::)
Besides, people aren't remembering something. The D.C. chapter was the way it was almost solely because of Elder Lyons being a softhearted peacenik. It's been long enough since FO3 for him to be dead and buried. I'm betting that Sarah Lyons either had something happen which made her fall far from the tree, or else died, and the chapter reconciled with the Outcasts. That is, if it is solely the east coast BoS. I'd take a guess that the Midwest might have swept through and cleaned house with D.C.
Post by: Putnam on June 18, 2015, 03:14:25 am
It's been long enough since FO3 for him to be dead and buried.
...do we actually know when it takes place
Post by: Lightningfalcon on June 18, 2015, 03:16:19 am
Well, there appeared to be a stone quarry (not sure if it's being used) in the E3 demo, and The Pitt was apparently pretty productive, so if there's anything else like that out there, there's no reason production couldn't have sputtered back a bit.In New Vegas you had the Gun Runners with their factory, and the NCR had a stone quarry that was being operated. Additionally, they had the resources to spare to dedicate people to research efforts.
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 18, 2015, 03:17:22 am
What do you even need to make a blimp? I guess a bunch of cloth or something, plus material for the gondola. And the gas, of course. I guess there's a bunch of helium under the Great Plains, but I'm not sure how they would've tapped it and isolated it from the rest of the gas.
Also, in regards to Sarah, it is implied that her sensibilities are a bit more west coast than her dad's. Remember how she was all dismissive of you when she first showed up near GNR? I guess the events of FO3 might have warmed her up a bit to outsiders, but she generally seemed more aloof.
Post by: Vendayn on June 18, 2015, 03:19:03 am
It's been long enough since FO3 for him to be dead and buried.
...do we actually know when it takes place
200 years. Same as Fallout 3 or pretty close to it.
Pretty sure I remember the video says the beginning takes place pre-war, then you come out 200 years later.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 18, 2015, 03:19:59 am
Post by: Aedel on June 18, 2015, 03:20:13 am
It's been long enough since FO3 for him to be dead and buried.
...do we actually know when it takes place
2277, same year as FO3 isn't it?
Unless Todd 'Sweet Lies' Howard and Codsworth weren't being literal when they said 200 years
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 18, 2015, 03:21:46 am
Post by: Flying Dice on June 18, 2015, 03:22:32 am
It's been long enough since FO3 for him to be dead and buried.
...do we actually know when it takes place
We know that FO3 began exactly 200 years after the bombs fell. Elder Lyons was already old as fuck and preparing to die at that point. I don't think we've heard anything definitive about FO4 beyond "roughly 200 years later", but I'd guess that it was enough difference (which could mean as few as 1-2 years, honestly) for Lyons to be out of the picture. That's if you want to go with the interpretation that the D.C. BoS are involved, rather than just the Midwesterners.
Also, because I really don't see Lyons deciding to start a crusade against the Institute when the Wasteland around D.C. is still fucked up and full of assorted minor assholes. The fact that the BoS in FO4 have Vertibirds (which as far as we know only the D.C. BoS have), the blimps (which the D.C. BoS don't have), and motivation enough to apparently attack the Institute is what says to me that it's a group of BoS which includes the D.C. chapter (but is not limited to them), and that Lyons is either dead or sidelined.
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 18, 2015, 03:22:52 am
Spoiler: FO4's complete sets of power armour (click to show/hide)
The NCR territories were mentioned to have a working railway system in FNV.Well, there appeared to be a stone quarry (not sure if it's being used) in the E3 demo, and The Pitt was apparently pretty productive, so if there's anything else like that out there, there's no reason production couldn't have sputtered back a bit.In New Vegas you had the Gun Runners with their factory, and the NCR had a stone quarry that was being operated. Additionally, they had the resources to spare to dedicate people to research efforts.
edit: shit, people, you type too fast
edit #2:
What do you even need to make a blimp? I guess a bunch of cloth or something, plus material for the gondola. And the gas, of course. I guess there's a bunch of helium under the Great Plains, but I'm not sure how they would've tapped it and isolated it from the rest of the gas.I think the airship is powered by hydrogen, not helium, like the Zeppelins of the early 20th century.
Post by: Krevsin on June 18, 2015, 05:26:16 am
Fallout 3 implied heavily that BoS and the Outcasts were on the brink of war and the only thing that prevented the BoS from escalating the conflict was Lyons and some of the paladins. Oh, and the whole enclave thing. In fact if the BoS and outcast patrols meet eachother, they will engage in combat. So tensions are high and the situation is volatile.It's been long enough since FO3 for him to be dead and buried.
...do we actually know when it takes place
We know that FO3 began exactly 200 years after the bombs fell. Elder Lyons was already old as fuck and preparing to die at that point. I don't think we've heard anything definitive about FO4 beyond "roughly 200 years later", but I'd guess that it was enough difference (which could mean as few as 1-2 years, honestly) for Lyons to be out of the picture. That's if you want to go with the interpretation that the D.C. BoS are involved, rather than just the Midwesterners.
Also, because I really don't see Lyons deciding to start a crusade against the Institute when the Wasteland around D.C. is still fucked up and full of assorted minor assholes. The fact that the BoS in FO4 have Vertibirds (which as far as we know only the D.C. BoS have), the blimps (which the D.C. BoS don't have), and motivation enough to apparently attack the Institute is what says to me that it's a group of BoS which includes the D.C. chapter (but is not limited to them), and that Lyons is either dead or sidelined.
I expect Fallout 4 will expand on this conflict if they choose to include the DC chapter.
Post by: scriver on June 18, 2015, 05:56:42 am
But we definitely saw in the presentation the main character fighting BoS.
And they were only presented as enemies.
All we saw was some random, contextless clips from a fight. It's not like you couldn't randomly decide to attack the BoS in F3 just because they were Designated Good Guys in the plot.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 18, 2015, 11:33:38 am
Fallout 3 implied heavily that BoS and the Outcasts were on the brink of war and the only thing that prevented the BoS from escalating the conflict was Lyons and some of the paladins. Oh, and the whole enclave thing. In fact if the BoS and outcast patrols meet eachother, they will engage in combat. So tensions are high and the situation is volatile.It's been long enough since FO3 for him to be dead and buried.
...do we actually know when it takes place
We know that FO3 began exactly 200 years after the bombs fell. Elder Lyons was already old as fuck and preparing to die at that point. I don't think we've heard anything definitive about FO4 beyond "roughly 200 years later", but I'd guess that it was enough difference (which could mean as few as 1-2 years, honestly) for Lyons to be out of the picture. That's if you want to go with the interpretation that the D.C. BoS are involved, rather than just the Midwesterners.
Also, because I really don't see Lyons deciding to start a crusade against the Institute when the Wasteland around D.C. is still fucked up and full of assorted minor assholes. The fact that the BoS in FO4 have Vertibirds (which as far as we know only the D.C. BoS have), the blimps (which the D.C. BoS don't have), and motivation enough to apparently attack the Institute is what says to me that it's a group of BoS which includes the D.C. chapter (but is not limited to them), and that Lyons is either dead or sidelined.
I expect Fallout 4 will expand on this conflict if they choose to include the DC chapter.
So the primary reason the Outcasts split off from the D.C. BoS is simultaneously the reason they're not at war with each other? You do remember why the divide happened, right? Lyons decided to go full charitymodo and part of the chapter didn't like that. Lyons and his worldview is the one thing (apart from the tensions caused by the separation) which split the chapter. Remove him from the picture, give them a couple years under a new leader, and I can easily see the factions reuniting. Even more so if an external group of BoS came through and cleaned house -- if the D.C. chapter didn't go back to their old ways, it's equally possible that an external group of BoS helped the Outcasts retake the Pentagon and the Outcasts are the D.C. chapter now.
Post by: Krevsin on June 18, 2015, 12:07:13 pm
What I meant to say was that the only thing preventing BoS from going all-out-war with the Outcasts is Lyons and some of his paladins keeping the BoS under their leash and the Outcasts having some measure of respect for the old coot. Remember, the Brotherhood is very much based on pseudo-knightly nonsense (hurray president Eden) and while the Outcasts dislike Lyons' worldview, they still have a lot of respect for him because he is a very experienced elder who has led the brotherhood through some tough times.Fallout 3 implied heavily that BoS and the Outcasts were on the brink of war and the only thing that prevented the BoS from escalating the conflict was Lyons and some of the paladins. Oh, and the whole enclave thing. In fact if the BoS and outcast patrols meet eachother, they will engage in combat. So tensions are high and the situation is volatile.It's been long enough since FO3 for him to be dead and buried.
...do we actually know when it takes place
We know that FO3 began exactly 200 years after the bombs fell. Elder Lyons was already old as fuck and preparing to die at that point. I don't think we've heard anything definitive about FO4 beyond "roughly 200 years later", but I'd guess that it was enough difference (which could mean as few as 1-2 years, honestly) for Lyons to be out of the picture. That's if you want to go with the interpretation that the D.C. BoS are involved, rather than just the Midwesterners.
Also, because I really don't see Lyons deciding to start a crusade against the Institute when the Wasteland around D.C. is still fucked up and full of assorted minor assholes. The fact that the BoS in FO4 have Vertibirds (which as far as we know only the D.C. BoS have), the blimps (which the D.C. BoS don't have), and motivation enough to apparently attack the Institute is what says to me that it's a group of BoS which includes the D.C. chapter (but is not limited to them), and that Lyons is either dead or sidelined.
I expect Fallout 4 will expand on this conflict if they choose to include the DC chapter.
So the primary reason the Outcasts split off from the D.C. BoS is simultaneously the reason they're not at war with each other? You do remember why the divide happened, right? Lyons decided to go full charitymodo and part of the chapter didn't like that. Lyons and his worldview is the one thing (apart from the tensions caused by the separation) which split the chapter. Remove him from the picture, give them a couple years under a new leader, and I can easily see the factions reuniting. Even more so if an external group of BoS came through and cleaned house -- if the D.C. chapter didn't go back to their old ways, it's equally possible that an external group of BoS helped the Outcasts retake the Pentagon and the Outcasts are the D.C. chapter now.
Listening to what the senior brotherhood scribes and paladins have to say about the outcasts paints an image of a relationship that while unfriendly is not entirely hostile. They understand why the Outcasts made their decision and even have a certain measure of respect for them, but in the end, the Outcasts chose wrong and the only reason they seem to restrain themselves from striking against the Outcasts outright is the fact that Lyons forbids it.
Now, the Outcasts aren't nearly as well characterized as the Brotherhood since you are only given very few non-dismissive Outcasts to talk with, but given the way senior members of the Brotherhood seem to feel about the Outcasts it is not too difficult to imagine the Outcasts feeling much the same way and having the same respect for Lyons prevent them from open war (remember, the outcasts are comprised entirely of former members of the brotherhood who were heavily indoctrinated into the dogma).
Once Lyons dies, so does the respect the Outcasts have for him and the conflict escalates. Similarily, the BoS due to its influx of newly recruited members who aren't as well indoctrinated as the old guard, has a much harder time containing the desire for war. They cannot reconcile with the Outcasts yet neither side can tolerate eachother's existence, thus leading into an all-out war.
Post by: Rakonas on June 18, 2015, 01:13:50 pm
Post by: Vendayn on June 18, 2015, 03:05:49 pm
Pre-War Fallout Overhaul
It would look AMAZING, and be so awesome to play. Can start as just a texture overhaul and then let others build on it. Whoever is first to release it, would pave the way for future mods if done earlier than later. If done early, instead of later in Fallout's life...can be one of the most popular mods for FO4.
All the assets would already be there. Bethesda has already done all the work since you start in pre-war fallout.
Post by: Puzzlemaker on June 18, 2015, 03:15:21 pm
Post by: PTTG?? on June 18, 2015, 03:18:44 pm
The first overhaul I hope gets released, and should be easy.
Pre-War Fallout Overhaul
It would look AMAZING, and be so awesome to play. Can start as just a texture overhaul and then let others build on it. Whoever is first to release it, would pave the way for future mods if done earlier than later. If done early, instead of later in Fallout's life...can be one of the most popular mods for FO4.
All the assets would already be there. Bethesda has already done all the work since you start in pre-war fallout.
Interesting... but keep in mind that the resources will probably be pretty limited simply because you won't be there very long.
Post by: Zangi on June 18, 2015, 03:21:08 pm
It would be cool to have some invasion forces in some mod.I'm pretty sure there are random bandit/whatever attacks on your outposts? Unless you mean Chinese invaders or something.
Post by: Puzzlemaker on June 18, 2015, 03:25:48 pm
It would be cool to have some invasion forces in some mod.I'm pretty sure there are random bandit/whatever attacks on your outposts? Unless you mean Chinese invaders or something.
Yeah I meant chinese invaders in a fallout pre-war mod.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 18, 2015, 03:36:21 pm
The thing about BoS vs. Outcasts is that there's no practical reason to fight. The Outcasts think that the BoS is wasting its time and resources on philanthropy when it needs to protect the wasteland from itself by hoarding tech. The BoS think that the Outcasts shouldn't be recluses and instead should be building rapport with the wasteland, essentially reconstructing the Old World. It doesn't make sense for either to risk lives in the hope of killing their former brethren. Once Elder Lyons dies there's a decent chance of the BoS reversing course and thereby diplomatically solving the problem, and the same is probably true as time advances for the Outcasts.Dislike is reason enough for many people.
I suppose the Outcasts could consider the BoS to be squandering tech and botherhood paladins in a pointless struggle and diluting the purity of the order with plentiful local recruits. In FO1, you had to do quite a lot before you were permitted to join, and BoS in capital wasteland is just hiring every shmuck they can get. They might see once Lyons dies it shifts even more towards a local support group as the leaders with Outcast tendencies already left, leaving only the non-Outcasts.
So the Outcasts could want war in order to regain control of the technology the BoS is wasting against the mutants, and the BoS could see the Outcasts as... well, if you know someone wants you dead, you don't tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.
But overall, bad blood between factions speaks more than is "rational".
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 18, 2015, 03:38:36 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on June 18, 2015, 03:44:32 pm
The thing about BoS vs. Outcasts is that there's no practical reason to fight. The Outcasts think that the BoS is wasting its time and resources on philanthropy when it needs to protect the wasteland from itself by hoarding tech. The BoS think that the Outcasts shouldn't be recluses and instead should be building rapport with the wasteland, essentially reconstructing the Old World. It doesn't make sense for either to risk lives in the hope of killing their former brethren. Once Elder Lyons dies there's a decent chance of the BoS reversing course and thereby diplomatically solving the problem, and the same is probably true as time advances for the Outcasts.Dislike is reason enough for many people.
I suppose the Outcasts could consider the BoS to be squandering tech and botherhood paladins in a pointless struggle and diluting the purity of the order with plentiful local recruits. In FO1, you had to do quite a lot before you were permitted to join, and BoS in capital wasteland is just hiring every shmuck they can get. They might see once Lyons dies it shifts even more towards a local support group as the leaders with Outcast tendencies already left, leaving only the non-Outcasts.
So the Outcasts could want war in order to regain control of the technology the BoS is wasting against the mutants, and the BoS could see the Outcasts as... well, if you know someone wants you dead, you don't tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.
But overall, bad blood between factions speaks more than is "rational".
The Outcasts aren't actually very different in that regard. Remember the Operation Anchorage DLC? Those were BoS Outcasts. Literally all you had to do was show up, even as a random asshole Wastes wanderer with level 3 gear, say "Oi, I'll do that shit for you," go through the Sim, and they'd let you clear out that armory full of high-tech weapons and gear, including the best suit of power armor in the D.C. area. You, a random asshole that they didn't know from Adam, was permitted to walk away with a mountain of high-tech ordinance by the Outcasts.
The difference between the factions existed primarily because the writers were at least trying to pay lip service to the idea of the BoS (while simultaneously making the ones that stuck to their guns instead of kowtowing to Lyons' philanthropic ideal the "bad" BoS).
Honestly, I have no problems predicting reconciliation as soon as Lyons as gone. The BoS was bleeding people left and right trying to stem the Supermutie tide, the Outcasts have people and gear. Sarah Lyons was pretty gung-ho, from what I remember, I'd totally bet on her sacrificing some of the Elder's ideals in exchange for reuniting the chapter if she ended up in charge (as it seemed like she was being groomed for the position).
Post by: AoshimaMichio on June 18, 2015, 03:47:59 pm
The Outcasts aren't actually very different in that regard. Remember the Operation Anchorage DLC? Those were BoS Outcasts. Literally all you had to do was show up, even as a random asshole Wastes wanderer with level 3 gear, say "Oi, I'll do that shit for you," go through the Sim, and they'd let you clear out that armory full of high-tech weapons and gear, including the best suit of power armor in the D.C. area. You, a random asshole that they didn't know from Adam, was permitted to walk away with a mountain of high-tech ordinance by the Outcasts.
The difference between the factions existed primarily because the writers were at least trying to pay lip service to the idea of the BoS (while simultaneously making the ones that stuck to their guns instead of kowtowing to Lyons' philanthropic ideal the "bad" BoS).
Honestly, I have no problems predicting reconciliation as soon as Lyons as gone. The BoS was bleeding people left and right trying to stem the Supermutie tide, the Outcasts have people and gear. Sarah Lyons was pretty gung-ho, from what I remember, I'd totally bet on her sacrificing some of the Elder's ideals in exchange for reuniting the chapter if she ended up in charge (as it seemed like she was being groomed for the position).
Did you forgot good number of those very same Outcasts didn't really want to give PC anything? I had to always fight my way out of there because they had some internal debate via gatling lasers and figured to kill me as well since I was source of their violent debate.
Post by: Putnam on June 18, 2015, 04:16:27 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 18, 2015, 07:44:45 pm
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 18, 2015, 07:53:20 pm
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 18, 2015, 11:27:23 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Some fellow on 4chan found some interesting things about Fallout 4. I didn't see anyone talking about it so here, have a giant image full of >implications
As nice as it could be, they should hold their horses - the DC Brotherhood has an identical logo (mirrored logo of the Western BoS)The Brotherhood troopers in the concept art were all wearing T-45d power armour, so it's very likely that the BoS in Fallout 4 is from DC, and their airship and vertiberds are operated from Adams AFB.Spoiler: Above, the Midwestern BoS, below, the Capital BoS (click to show/hide)
Bethesda will probably make them the Designated Good Guys, while the Institute will become the Designated Bad Guys, and the plot will be similar to Fallout 3 in terms of moral choices.
Sorry to doublepost, especially quoting something a couple pages back, but I figured I'd point something out:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Note the fact that the DC BoS's power armor has the cog on the left, despite the flag being the other way around. It also shows up in the Citadel on the left:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So, if the DC BoS's official logo has the big cog on the right, they're pretty lax about standardizing it. I don't think it's too far-fetched that Bethesda might've just forgotten that they'd done that on the flag in the first place, so I'm not sure they would've corrected it this time around. I'm still not discounting the Midwestern theory. That said, they probably would've differentiated the armor a bit if that is what's going on, so who knows.
Post by: Neonivek on June 18, 2015, 11:47:24 pm
I am surprised people harp on the whole Megaton thing... given what happens in Fallout 2 (or 1? Which one can you just decide to irradiate a town to death?)
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 19, 2015, 12:08:59 am
Post by: Neonivek on June 19, 2015, 12:13:16 am
Sure you can get around it... but people would often not be helpful towards you if they knew you killed children or robbed graves.
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 19, 2015, 12:16:34 am
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on June 19, 2015, 12:18:42 am
Yeah, being a ridiculous psychopath should be a valid playstyle. That said, the morality system needs a bit of a facelift. There's really no point to being evil in Fallout most of the time. In fact, it can be harder to be evil than good in some cases. Being bad should be the easier choice, the kind of thing someone with a weak will would do. This is a wasteland where people struggle to survive day to day, so good and evil shouldn't necessarily be two equally viable options.That depends on the type of *good* you might be doing, stealing is evil, right? No denying that, though it makes things easier, however, consider a situation in which a merchant is accosted by radscropions and you save him from them before he's killed, no matter whether he might have been able to kill them with or without your help, that's still a good thing to do, right? But you may not have done it for a good reason, as saving him and letting him go (not without appropriate reward, mind) back to wherever his home is, then you've gotten good reputation, and that's the only reason you may have saved him.
In that situation, you could probably have made it easier for yourself in the long run because you helped him, and it wouldn't have even been that hard, it would be kinda 'pragmatic villany'.
Honestly, a morality system would probably work better with a kind of X and Y graph, the Y is pragmatism while the X might just be your morals, so doing tons of little good things (like saving a caravan guy against things that really wouldn't give you any trouble) would only increase your moral level to a point, and at the same time increasing your pragmatism.
I don't know what I'm saying anymore.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 19, 2015, 12:21:50 am
-snip-
Did you forgot good number of those very same Outcasts didn't really want to give PC anything? I had to always fight my way out of there because they had some internal debate via gatling lasers and figured to kill me as well since I was source of their violent debate.
Honestly? Yeah. It's been years since I played FO3, and I always ended up killing them all for their gear anyways. Just remembered it being SoD breaking that any Outcasts were willing to work with the PC at all, much less give them military-grade tech. 'Course, the Doylist explanation is that Bethesda were lazy when it came to writing plots for their quests in FO3.
Don't mind me too much at any rate, I'm just slinging shit at the walls to see if any sticks.
Post by: Krevsin on June 19, 2015, 02:27:11 am
Also I always found it ridiculous that they'd just give you ALL the stuff in the locked vault. I always thought it'd make more sense for them to give you a few select items (not the T-51b tho) and then leave you on your way. If you want all the goodies, you have to fight them.
Post by: scriver on June 19, 2015, 04:10:29 am
The thing about BoS vs. Outcasts is that there's no practical reason to fight. The Outcasts think that the BoS is wasting its time and resources on philanthropy when it needs to protect the wasteland from itself by hoarding tech. The BoS think that the Outcasts shouldn't be recluses and instead should be building rapport with the wasteland, essentially reconstructing the Old World. It doesn't make sense for either to risk lives in the hope of killing their former brethren. Once Elder Lyons dies there's a decent chance of the BoS reversing course and thereby diplomatically solving the problem, and the same is probably true as time advances for the Outcasts.
Maybe. But war. War never changes.
Post by: Yoink on June 19, 2015, 04:19:37 am
I sure fucking hope not, that would be awful.
Post by: Putnam on June 19, 2015, 04:19:54 am
Post by: Yoink on June 19, 2015, 04:23:39 am
Hopefully it's optional.
Post by: Putnam on June 19, 2015, 04:26:40 am
did troy baker kill your goldfish
the dialogue is going to be the same regardless
Post by: UXLZ on June 19, 2015, 04:34:22 am
If they're going to go with ME-style dialogue wheels even for the PC version... Well, first, fuck dat, second, I hope the FallUI mod that will fix the inevitably shitty designed-for-console inventory as well as that, third... Well, you'll need to go with a voice acted MC if you want to follow the conversations well.
Post by: Krevsin on June 19, 2015, 04:43:17 am
Mods will fix it for people who are bothered by it.
Because mod fix evertything.
Post by: scriver on June 19, 2015, 05:20:36 am
Post by: Yoink on June 19, 2015, 05:33:22 am
whyNo, but having some generic voice shoehorned in to represent the player character is only going to damage my immersion.
did troy baker kill your goldfish
the dialogue is going to be the same regardless
One thing worse than having a silly silent protagonist is having voice work for a character that's supposed to be of your creation.
Post by: Putnam on June 19, 2015, 05:40:17 am
a character that's supposed to be of your creation.
have you played a bethesda game
they're pretty awful at that
like seriously
Fallout 3 had my favorite dialogue in the series
"I have a surprise for you."
Your choices are, of course, being excited or being annoyed.
If you choose being annoyed, your father says "Since when?".
So yeah, your character's already set in stone in 4 just like they were in 3.
Post by: Yoink on June 19, 2015, 05:43:44 am
Post by: scriver on June 19, 2015, 05:54:16 am
Post by: Krevsin on June 19, 2015, 06:25:09 am
The more things change the more they stay the same I guess.
Post by: UXLZ on June 19, 2015, 06:28:10 am
Post by: Krevsin on June 19, 2015, 06:32:50 am
I find that Beth games are at their best when they center around that world rather than some overlying grand event or intense character drama.
Post by: Yoink on June 19, 2015, 06:45:47 am
No, Putnam's pretty much right on the point.Nope, he/she is not.
I'm saying having a voice actor attempting to portray my murderous psychopath will detract from the game's immersion. They are arguing that that is not the case. Unfortunately, it is.
Post by: scriver on June 19, 2015, 06:56:34 am
Beth just sucks at everything but world building. Let us hope for mods. However, maybe FO4 will break the trend? Let us hope.
The world building is pretty much the part they're the worst at. Hence Kidville, Teenage Vampyre Gang and Village-upon-Bridge, Posh Upper Class Tower, and all the other things about F3 that makes no sense at all.
Post by: Krevsin on June 19, 2015, 07:03:33 am
You'll get used to it.No, Putnam's pretty much right on the point.Nope, he/she is not.
I'm saying having a voice actor attempting to portray my murderous psychopath will detract from the game's immersion. They are arguing that that is not the case. Unfortunately, it is.
Post by: Yoink on June 19, 2015, 07:08:43 am
Post by: miauw62 on June 19, 2015, 07:38:14 am
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on June 19, 2015, 07:40:02 am
Or use the day 1 mod that disables the player voice :VThen the day 7 mod that includes elongated text boxes ala New vegas and F3.
Post by: JimboM12 on June 19, 2015, 07:48:24 am
Then use the day 10 mod that replaces the player voice with out-of-context voice clips from the Macho Man.Or use the day 1 mod that disables the player voice :VThen the day 7 mod that includes elongated text boxes ala New vegas and F3.
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 19, 2015, 07:52:16 am
and all of the super mutants with models of the Macho ManThen use the day 10 mod that replaces the player voice with out-of-context voice clips from the Macho Man.Or use the day 1 mod that disables the player voice :VThen the day 7 mod that includes elongated text boxes ala New vegas and F3.
Post by: Kaje on June 19, 2015, 08:33:43 am
Okay, I'm not American - that accent might break my immersion a little - but I can always just pretend I'm a naturalised American citizen hailing from another country originally.
It's no biggie.
Post by: miauw62 on June 19, 2015, 08:43:21 am
So don't worry, you can still call your character "POOPLORD EXTREME", if you want to.
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 19, 2015, 09:28:00 am
Post by: UXLZ on June 19, 2015, 09:31:30 am
Beth just sucks at everything but world building. Let us hope for mods. However, maybe FO4 will break the trend? Let us hope.
The world building is pretty much the part they're the worst at. Hence Kidville, Teenage Vampyre Gang and Village-upon-Bridge, Posh Upper Class Tower, and all the other things about F3 that makes no sense at all.
Allow me to rephrase that, then, they suck at everything. Truthfully speaking, the only appeal I really ever see in their games are the mods. The plot is bad, the dialogue is bad, the immersion is bad, the gameplay is bad, the engine is bad, the graphics are meh, so on and so forth. I can't understand why everyone loves them as a studio so much, probably the nostalgiagoggles of the Elder Scrolls days of yore.
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 19, 2015, 09:35:44 am
Post by: miauw62 on June 19, 2015, 09:37:35 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 19, 2015, 09:40:10 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 19, 2015, 09:41:01 am
I probably won't spend any money on it though.
Post by: Astral on June 19, 2015, 10:50:26 am
I'd love to play it. Have they said when it will be out on Android?Hopefully in a few months[/quote]
I probably won't spend any money on it though.
Though the fact that it's been making a few million each day since release might be incentive to get it out sooner, while the hype is still fresh. (https://twitter.com/bethesdastudios/status/610850052454551552)
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 19, 2015, 10:53:29 am
Then again I don't spend money on mobile games, as I said, so I'm probably not the intended audience.
Post by: scriver on June 19, 2015, 12:53:46 pm
I'm looking forward to F4. I'm not sure I will have a computer that can play it even at the lowest settings in autumn, but if I did I think I would buy it immediately or very soon, even if they do something horrible like monetise mods. But I also have no problem speaking about things that I think was bad about the old games or what think will be bad about this one.
Post by: Putnam on June 19, 2015, 02:20:52 pm
The thousand names was referring to the procedural baby that is made after character creation and presumably does not survive the bombs.
So don't worry, you can still call your character "POOPLORD EXTREME", if you want to.
No it wasn't. Where did you get that idea? It's very clearly for the main character, thus Codsworth repeatedly calling the main character by their name.
It's only for Codsworth, though.
Post by: Sergius on June 19, 2015, 03:49:46 pm
If it matches one of the "1000" the robot will say it out loud, otherwise we have to assume it'll be replaced by some generic phrase.
Post by: Wimopy on June 19, 2015, 04:17:24 pm
some generic phrase.
"You" - that will be the player's name in that case. Or probably some title, like always.
Or maybe they'll let you pick a name from the list to be called? "Hey, I'm Killermaster, but please call me John"
Post by: JimboM12 on June 20, 2015, 04:06:03 pm
Also, gathering clips of Macho man and Hulk hogan to make the Day 1 mod: WWF Super Mutants. "WHATCHA GONNA DO, BROTHER, WHEN THE MASTERS ARMY COMES FOR YOU?" and "MUTANT MADNESS, SKYS THE LIMIT"
They will also fight each other on sight.
Post by: Gunner-Chan on June 20, 2015, 04:21:31 pm
So the hype has driven me to dig (quite literally) through my boxes of games to find an old copy of Fallout 2. Don't know where F1 went. Anyway, got it loaded and am grabbing the Restoration Project mod and going to grab some beers and go to nostalgia land. Self imposed challenge #1: get Miria and don't let her die or sell her into slavery.
Also, gathering clips of Macho man and Hulk hogan to make the Day 1 mod: WWF Super Mutants. "WHATCHA GONNA DO, BROTHER, WHEN THE MASTERS ARMY COMES FOR YOU?" and "MUTANT MADNESS, SKYS THE LIMIT"
They will also fight each other on sight.
I feel like having anything involving that cunt Bollea mixed with Randy savage at this point would actually qualify as disrespectful to poor Savage.
Post by: Harry Baldman on June 21, 2015, 08:52:33 am
When I do get my hands on Fallout 4, will probably play that in an evil fashion as well. It's an oddly liberating thing, playing evil. It's especially helped by the fact that a lot of the people in Fallout 3 you really wouldn't mind seeing dead or being victims of tragedy.
Post by: BFEL on June 21, 2015, 09:11:20 am
Mothership Zeta was pretty bad, the Pitt was pretty good, Operation Anchorage was amusing and the rest I could have very well done without
You...LIKED the PITT? *HOW*? The best thing about that DLC was the silenced assault rifle. Mothership Zeta was downright glorious in comparison to The Pitt.
Post by: Harry Baldman on June 21, 2015, 09:26:46 am
Compare it to Mothership Zeta, which comes out of nowhere, has about twice as many areas as it should, most of them largely identical to one another (the Cargo Hold was nice, and I liked the spacewalk as a moment even if it wasn't really a spacewalk, and the MPLX Novasurge was useful when I grew tired of combat in Broken Steel and decided to render it a formality), zero exploration, and has absolutely no meaningful story or thematic connection to the Capital Wasteland.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 21, 2015, 02:38:10 pm
Post by: Elfeater on June 21, 2015, 02:45:29 pm
I hated Mothership Zeta because I couldn't carry back all the loot.Thoughts on Dead Money then?
Post by: Flying Dice on June 21, 2015, 03:03:58 pm
Not as bad as Honest Hearts? :PI hated Mothership Zeta because I couldn't carry back all the loot.Thoughts on Dead Money then?
Post by: Draignean on June 21, 2015, 03:05:13 pm
Stats like guns, medicine, speech, etc, appear to be a thing of the past. Looking at a bunch of pip-boy freezes, there doesn't seem to be anywhere to put them. The stats pane has a section for status, special, and your 'perk chart'. Note the phrase 'perk chart', which implies that there may be some additional ordering to perks (Which would make sense if skills were removed, since skills were the original primary qualifiers for perks), and that you get to see all the perks you can get up front. (A changed retained from FO3) I'll have to see how that plays out before I create a strong opinion.
Layered armor looks amazing, and, again from pip-boy stills, it appears to create different DR scores for different parts of your body. Considering that I loved the patchwork armor that could happen in morrowind, I'm thrilled. I do, however, wonder if there's a practical benefit to armoring different parts of your body to different levels. Does my gun hand get a bonus if there's not too much weight on it? 'Twould be nice, but that's just rampant speculation.
Looking at the footage of the Deathclaw duel, power armor does appear to take sectional damage (the player loses functionality/armor/phlebotinum in the left arm for one part of the clip), and it also has a meter for 'core'. Probably reflecting some kind of energy level. Considering that power armor runs on nuclear fuel cells that were designed to last for hundreds of years, and that it has been hundreds of years since people were making those fuel cells, we may be witnessing a mechanic for scraping the last few hours/days/weeks of life out of nearly inert power cores.
Post by: Elfeater on June 21, 2015, 04:19:37 pm
A musket would be inaccurate due to the ball bouncing around in the barrel while the rifling makes it much more accurate.
Neither of which really have to do with lasers. Of course rifle has become the go to term for a modern long gun that isn't a shotgun, and laser rifle is already taken. The name laser musket probably refers to the elongated reload of it, but im not sure, probably just a gimmick name for the "Minute Men" main weapon.
Post by: scriver on June 21, 2015, 04:57:28 pm
Post by: birdy51 on June 21, 2015, 05:01:57 pm
I hated Mothership Zeta because I couldn't carry back all the loot.Thoughts on Dead Money then?
I've actually heard that there are ways to make it out with all of the loot. Don't ask me how, because I've never done it myself, but there are.
Post by: Culise on June 21, 2015, 05:04:16 pm
A musket is an un-rifled small arm/long gun, rifling just refers to the "rifling" in the barrels, the spiral grooves on the inside.Just wanted to correct this quick. A musket (or indeed, any other smoothbore; muskets aren't the only type of smoothbores) isn't just inaccurate because the ball is bouncing around in the barrel. If your calibers don't match by that degree, you've got a pretty awful gun to start with whether it's a smoothbore or rifled, and the fact that this was common in bygone days was independent of the type of barrel, but rather a consequence of the difficulty of precision engineering. A rifle is more accurate than a smoothbore not because its bullet fits the barrel better, but rather because the rotation imparted to a properly-designed bullet by those spiral grooves you mention induces a gyroscopic force that stabilizes it and causes to fly straight for longer. I'm pretty sure rifles tend to be more accurate than non-rifled shotguns firing slugs, and it would be for this reason.
A musket would be inaccurate due to the ball bouncing around in the barrel while the rifling makes it much more accurate.
Neither of which really have to do with lasers. Of course rifle has become the go to term for a modern long gun that isn't a shotgun, and laser rifle is already taken. The name laser musket probably refers to the elongated reload of it, but im not sure, probably just a gimmick name for the "Minute Men" main weapon.
Post by: BFEL on June 21, 2015, 05:21:37 pm
I'm pretty sure rifles tend to be more accurate than non-rifled shotguns firing slugs, and it would be for this reason.So what happens when a rifled shotgun fires buckshot?
Post by: Elfeater on June 21, 2015, 05:25:40 pm
Thanks, I was mostly going off of previous knowledge and hearsay.A musket is an un-rifled small arm/long gun, rifling just refers to the "rifling" in the barrels, the spiral grooves on the inside.Just wanted to correct this quick. A musket (or indeed, any other smoothbore; muskets aren't the only type of smoothbores) isn't just inaccurate because the ball is bouncing around in the barrel. If your calibers don't match by that degree, you've got a pretty awful gun to start with whether it's a smoothbore or rifled, and the fact that this was common in bygone days was independent of the type of barrel, but rather a consequence of the difficulty of precision engineering. A rifle is more accurate than a smoothbore not because its bullet fits the barrel better, but rather because the rotation imparted to a properly-designed bullet by those spiral grooves you mention induces a gyroscopic force that stabilizes it and causes to fly straight for longer. I'm pretty sure rifles tend to be more accurate than non-rifled shotguns firing slugs, and it would be for this reason.
A musket would be inaccurate due to the ball bouncing around in the barrel while the rifling makes it much more accurate.
Neither of which really have to do with lasers. Of course rifle has become the go to term for a modern long gun that isn't a shotgun, and laser rifle is already taken. The name laser musket probably refers to the elongated reload of it, but im not sure, probably just a gimmick name for the "Minute Men" main weapon.
Post by: Culise on June 21, 2015, 06:07:32 pm
Apparently, the imparted spin increases the spread significantly and scatters it in a "donut" shape. Low muzzle velocities aside, I can't imagine it's all that good for the rifling, either.I'm pretty sure rifles tend to be more accurate than non-rifled shotguns firing slugs, and it would be for this reason.So what happens when a rifled shotgun fires buckshot?
Post by: Elfeater on June 21, 2015, 06:29:22 pm
What about rifled cannon like a parrot gun from the civil war firing canister shot or something along those lines? Or grape shot? Same principle?Apparently, the imparted spin increases the spread significantly and scatters it in a "donut" shape. Low muzzle velocities aside, I can't imagine it's all that good for the rifling, either.I'm pretty sure rifles tend to be more accurate than non-rifled shotguns firing slugs, and it would be for this reason.So what happens when a rifled shotgun fires buckshot?
Post by: Culise on June 21, 2015, 06:53:55 pm
I think so, though I'm not so positive on that and I was actually wrong about how good or bad it is for the rifling. The rifling doesn't care at all as long as it stays in the shell until it's ejected from the muzzle. At any rate, though, the exact same physical parameters regarding rifled shotguns would apply to rifled artillery, only scaled up. I think that most ACW-era artillery that fired canister tended to do so at rather close ranges in either case, however, and they typically had Napoleons or other smoothbores as well (Napoleons were particularly infamous for the reach of their canister shot), but it looks like they did make canister shot for the 3-inch Ordinance Guns.What about rifled cannon like a parrot gun from the civil war firing canister shot or something along those lines? Or grape shot? Same principle?Apparently, the imparted spin increases the spread significantly and scatters it in a "donut" shape. Low muzzle velocities aside, I can't imagine it's all that good for the rifling, either.I'm pretty sure rifles tend to be more accurate than non-rifled shotguns firing slugs, and it would be for this reason.So what happens when a rifled shotgun fires buckshot?
Post by: Andres on June 21, 2015, 07:19:30 pm
Or they'll call you by your title ("lone wanderer", "the courier", etc.)some generic phrase.
"You" - that will be the player's name in that case. Or probably some title, like always.
Or maybe they'll let you pick a name from the list to be called? "Hey, I'm Killermaster, but please call me John"
The thing I really liked about Fallout 3 that just wasn't present in New Vegas was how you built the world.
In Fallout New Vegas, you only ever feel as an errand boy, doing things that the NCR can't do only because they're stretched thin.
In Skyrim, you're never treated with the default respect that being the Dragonborn would foster. Also, Alduin doesn't matter at all in the civil war. When you kill him, nothing really happens afterwards. The civil war continues, the jarls don't care about your deeds until you do them personal favours, and the world just continues to turn.
In Fallout 3, if you do enough good deeds, you get credited as being like a messiah by Three Dog. The BoS with all its technology was bleeding members stemming the Super-Mutant tide...until you stepped in. In Broken Steel, you're outright considered to be the second-most powerful being in the entire Capital Wasteland next to Liberty Prime by the Brotherhood of Steel. Bring clean water to everything and you start to see the changes that occur.
It's not that Fallout 3 makes you the most important person in the world - every Bethesda game does that. What Fallout 3 does is it makes you feel like you're the most important person in the world. Also, "the Lone Wanderer" is a really cool title.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 21, 2015, 09:56:15 pm
Post by: Draignean on June 21, 2015, 10:16:38 pm
Where's this about Minute Men and Musket Lasers from? The trailer or the e3 presentation, or did I miss some news?
You can see them in the inventory of the player, and the opening minutemen faction mission (which seems to double as the power armor tutorial and THIS IS A DEATHCLAW tutorial) is in this bit of footage (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRFAuDOlK5Q). I would also like to point out that, despite my rabid fanboyism, the minutemen squad leader's expressions look like they were carved from a block of wood, and then that block of wood was hot glued above a set of well animated lips.
Anyway, other fun little details...
Quote
The mod community has always been strong with Bethesda games. With Fallout 4 their creative ideas will reach beyond PC and into consoles. Modding tools are expected to become available on PC in early 2016, with Xbox One owners getting access to their creations shortly thereafter. Once the modding is thriving on these two platforms, Bethesda hopes to work on extending this content to PlayStation 4 as well, but Howard wasn't comfortable putting a timetable on that.
So the game will be out in four months, but it'll be at least six until we have full toolsets. Boo.
Quote
So far Bethesda has only shown off your trusty canine Dogmeat (who Howard confirmed will not be killed off in a cruel fashion)
So Bethesda hasn't gone for the 'Dog dies, everyone cries. We are totes genius at dramtic ritting!' camp of storytelling. At least, not completely. Granted, this probably means that all your companions are made out of giant sponge, but that can be tweaked along later through mods. A storyline death for the dog would have been more problematic.
Quote
As you could see in the trailer, Fallout 4 introduces new modes of transportation in the form of the gunship, but Howard says they aren't doing cars or anything as well.
Oh thank God. The way power armor moves will at least feel sort of similar to the way the player moves, so it'll only be as janky and unpredictable as normal walking. Considering Bethesda's track record with horses, I... I'm really glad they didn't try cars. Maybe in the next Fallout.
Quote
A list of your settlements will appear in your PipBoy. You can send caravans between the various bases to get your supplies where you want them to be.
This is interesting, not because of what it says, but because of what it doesn't say. It doesn't mention fast travel. This puts a tender bud of hope in my heart that fast travel will be more involved than tapping things out on the pip-boy. Granted, silt striders aren't going to fit, but it shouldn't be too hard to find something more immersive than tapping your wrist and saying ENGAGE in a commanding voice.
Quote
Bethesda is tweaking the way auto-scaling works for Fallout 4 to create more challenge. "We call it rubberbanding; we'll have an area [where enemies scale from] level 5 to 10, and then this area will be level 30 and above," Howard says. "You'll run into stuff that will crush you, and you will have to run away."
Translation: We have kept the level scaling pretty much the same. Reasonably good news. We shouldn't see raiders with power armor and
Quote
V.A.T.S. has received some slight overhauls. It no longer completely pauses the action, and critical shots are no longer random. If you look at the videos, you'll notice a "critical" bar on the bottom of the screen that the player fills. Once it is fully filled you can decide when to use it. Your luck skill determines how fast the bar increases, and there are perks that dig into how criticals work and how you use them.
I'm actually pretty cool with this. I think this sets up an interesting combat mechanic where you chain together kills on weaker mob units and use your critical charge to soften up the mob-boss unit(s). That being said, things could get odd if that crit bar is universal between weapons. Charging it with a normal weapon, then switching to a high power weapon or an AOE weapon for the crit could make for weirdness, exploitation, or epic combat. Have to play it for judgement to be passed.
Quote
With the new, built-from-scratch shooting system, Howard says Fallout 4 plays much more like a modern shooter. You can aim down the sights, use V.A.T.S., and play in first or third person.
Uh. Yeah. 'Grats on catching up to the ball as thrown by F:NV half a decade ago. I understand that it's difficult to describe shooting as more than pointing your gun and yelling pew-pew until everyone falls over, but this was a terrible sell. I've seen pistol whipping, I've seen bayonets, I've seen damn good looking recoil (particularly for scoped weapons), so you might want to emphasize that next time. Not "you can aim down the sights".
Quote
Fallout 4 has a full weather system that sends radiation storms across the world.
Huh, that could be either really cool or spectacularly annoying. If it's weather that we can see coming and is effected reasonably well by cover (not just loading screens, since he talked about minimizing those), then cool. If it's FO:3 weather, the kind that suddenly fades into storminess with no real warning on the horizon... That might suck. Still, play it and see.
Quote
Fallout 4's narrative has a lot more branching paths and overlapping of "if that than this" than Fallout 3. They want the game to handle all the fail states of missions instead of forcing players to reload saves.
Oh good, that seems like an excellent piece of common sense. Branching paths makes me a little suspicious, but I'll go with it. Maybe they learned a good lesson or two from New Vegas.
Quote
The extra graphical horsepower provided by the new console gave the team a tech backbone to iterate on its Creation engine and add more dynamic details. Physics-based rendering and volumetric lighting help create more atmosphere in the world, opening the game up to more environmental storytelling.
Translation 1: Dynamic dynamicism in all dynamic layers of the central gameplay dynamics will dynamically leverage player dynamics to create a more dynamic experience.
Translation 2: It means nothing.
Post by: Putnam on June 21, 2015, 10:26:31 pm
Post by: Draignean on June 21, 2015, 10:29:12 pm
Every one of those words actually meant something to me and the sentence was coherent, so that seems legit.
The individual words mean something, but the sum of it is: The game looks prettier, we can tell a prettier story when we have prettier pictures. Considering the time shift, I would be shocked if this was not the case. So, despite being made of meaningful words, that particular bit of interview didn't actually mean anything new.
Post by: Egan_BW on June 21, 2015, 11:18:51 pm
Post by: Krevsin on June 22, 2015, 12:20:25 am
I think this is mostly due to 3dog's reports on the radio being based on your overall karma, something which New Vegas does not have. Just bases it on the things you did.Or they'll call you by your title ("lone wanderer", "the courier", etc.)some generic phrase.
"You" - that will be the player's name in that case. Or probably some title, like always.
Or maybe they'll let you pick a name from the list to be called? "Hey, I'm Killermaster, but please call me John"
The thing I really liked about Fallout 3 that just wasn't present in New Vegas was how you built the world.
In Fallout New Vegas, you only ever feel as an errand boy, doing things that the NCR can't do only because they're stretched thin.
In Skyrim, you're never treated with the default respect that being the Dragonborn would foster. Also, Alduin doesn't matter at all in the civil war. When you kill him, nothing really happens afterwards. The civil war continues, the jarls don't care about your deeds until you do them personal favours, and the world just continues to turn.
In Fallout 3, if you do enough good deeds, you get credited as being like a messiah by Three Dog. The BoS with all its technology was bleeding members stemming the Super-Mutant tide...until you stepped in. In Broken Steel, you're outright considered to be the second-most powerful being in the entire Capital Wasteland next to Liberty Prime by the Brotherhood of Steel. Bring clean water to everything and you start to see the changes that occur.
It's not that Fallout 3 makes you the most important person in the world - every Bethesda game does that. What Fallout 3 does is it makes you feel like you're the most important person in the world. Also, "the Lone Wanderer" is a really cool title.
When I was playing an absurdly evil character, 3dog's quips angered me to such a point I murdered him and then left via the back door to not get squished by the Brotherhood guards.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 22, 2015, 12:26:34 am
Post by: Andres on June 22, 2015, 02:29:47 am
When I was playing an absurdly evil character, 3dog's quips angered me to such a point I murdered him and then left via the back door to not get squished by the Brotherhood guards.This right here is the sign of a great game.
Post by: Harry Baldman on June 22, 2015, 03:35:52 am
When I was playing an absurdly evil character, 3dog's quips angered me to such a point I murdered him and then left via the back door to not get squished by the Brotherhood guards.
I found his evil quips with their righteous indignation more amusing than the constant praise when you're good. Especially in the high levels in Broken Steel, when you get the cool titles like Stuff of Nightmares or Soultaker.
"Think you'll sleep when you're dead, children? Think again, because we've got a Soultaker in our midst," or something of that nature, for instance.
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 22, 2015, 05:08:46 am
Radstorm soon, fellow stalker!QuoteFallout 4 has a full weather system that sends radiation storms across the world.
Huh, that could be either really cool or spectacularly annoying. If it's weather that we can see coming and is effected reasonably well by cover (not just loading screens, since he talked about minimizing those), then cool. If it's FO:3 weather, the kind that suddenly fades into storminess with no real warning on the horizon... That might suck. Still, play it and see.
Post by: Krevsin on June 22, 2015, 05:46:19 am
Post by: Andres on June 22, 2015, 06:53:46 am
Post by: scriver on June 22, 2015, 07:58:14 am
Post by: Draignean on June 22, 2015, 09:32:55 am
I thought Fallout 3 didn't have weather.
Uh, it's entirely possible I may be remembering the radioactive rainstorms from mods. Oops.
This is what happens to Bethesda games after a few years for me. I probably can't even remember what monsters were actually in vanilla.
Fallout 4: Fallout 3 with Weather (and other things)
Post by: miauw62 on June 22, 2015, 09:37:11 am
Post by: Draignean on June 22, 2015, 09:58:12 am
Post by: jocan2003 on June 22, 2015, 10:45:12 am
Post by: AoshimaMichio on June 22, 2015, 11:07:20 am
I thought Fallout 3 didn't have weather.
Technically it does. Just limited to specific areas and not very noticeable.
Post by: Krevsin on June 22, 2015, 11:30:52 am
Well on a few point? Sorry but about 90% of what they praised was in fact a mod at some point in either fallout 3 or 4... they simly took the most popular mod and rewrote them for fallout 4. Dont get me wrong, it will make a good game but im sad to see that they NEVER credited the corresponding mod author works,.... Real time settler? Wich allowed you to build a settlement and even your own house in fallout 3 if i remember right? The mods that added mods to guns GRE? Man so many mods used in their presentation, sure they wrote it themself but its all nearly copy pasted from mods...No mods for Fallout 3 or NV have ever attempted gun modification to such an extent as they are trying to do in fallout 4.
The ability to create your own settlements is likewise nothing new and seems more influenced by the current popular interest in survival games (Rust, the dinosaur thing, et cetera) and not so much by Real Time Settler which was mostly about placing static objects to your liking, while what we've seen of Fallout 4 seems more akin to games like Rust.
While it is without a doubt true that RTS and WME had an influence on Bethesda (proving that people wanted these elements in their games), the scale is much larger and seems (at least to me) to be more influenced by the recent popularity of survival games than mods for NV and FO3. Bethesda do like going with the flow of things after all.
Post by: TempAcc on June 22, 2015, 11:45:04 am
Plus the settlements in fallout 4 actualy do things, it seems, instead of just being set pieces. There are generators, turrets, actual sensible sources and uses of electricity, trading between settlements, etc. The fallout 3 and new vegas custom settlement mods were basically just static set pieces you could put down.
I realize I'm not giving the modders enough credit, though, considering that they work within the constraints of the game engine.
Post by: BFEL on June 22, 2015, 12:57:41 pm
I realize I'm not giving the modders enough credit, though, considering that they work within the constraints of the game engine.No no, don't give them too much credit, they should have gone beyond those silly constraints and made the game capable of dispensing real world blowjobs.
Post by: Sergius on June 22, 2015, 01:33:08 pm
‘Fallout Shelter’ Android Update: Game Will Be Rolled Out Next Month, Bethesda Confirms (http://www.realtytoday.com/articles/16787/20150622/fallout-shelter-android-update-game-will-rolled-out-next-month.htm)
Just read this and can't find an actual mention of rolling out next month or Bethesda confirming it.
Post by: werty892 on June 22, 2015, 02:02:37 pm
Post by: Elfeater on June 22, 2015, 02:28:24 pm
According to the map in the first post, if it's at least NV sized then I'll be able to find my house.I heard three times the size of skyrim is what they are going for. Which is pretty huge.
Post by: Putnam on June 22, 2015, 02:54:45 pm
According to the map in the first post, if it's at least NV sized then I'll be able to find my house.I heard three times the size of skyrim is what they are going for. Which is pretty huge.
That was from a leak that was fake as shit.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 22, 2015, 05:43:08 pm
Post by: AlleeCat on June 22, 2015, 07:23:01 pm
Best mod.
Post by: Draignean on June 22, 2015, 08:31:55 pm
We did have some distance shots of Boston which gave perspective, though, and people figured out where Vault 111 is. Given that they probably wouldn't put the Vault at the edge of the map and wouldn't make a bunch of the map be ocean, that gives us a decent minimum estimate of dimensions.
A completely unverified approximation (that may have been pulled from the ass dimension) based off of those methods is for 30 sq. miles. Twice Skyrim and change. Quasi-reliable source. (http://www.thevaulttecinc.com/2015/06/fallout-4-map-size-and-location-analysis.html)
Post by: Mech#4 on June 22, 2015, 09:45:15 pm
Post by: Putnam on June 22, 2015, 10:13:31 pm
every single one of Bethesda's games except Daggerfall have gigantic amounts of spatial compression so that they don't be like... daggerfall.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 22, 2015, 11:45:51 pm
Post by: Krevsin on June 23, 2015, 12:15:02 am
Wasteland 2 is where it's at if you want Fallout 1 style travel.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 23, 2015, 12:51:00 am
For you. Others don't care. Opinions sure are fun, huh?No, Putnam's pretty much right on the point.Nope, he/she is not.
I'm saying having a voice actor attempting to portray my murderous psychopath will detract from the game's immersion. They are arguing that that is not the case. Unfortunately, it is.
hilariouslyDaggerfall had removed text and mechanics that would've allowed you to be a hooker. FO4 mod when.
every single one of Bethesda's games except Daggerfall have gigantic amounts of spatial compression so that they don't be like... daggerfall.
Post by: Sensei on June 23, 2015, 01:21:48 am
hilariouslyYup. It's not the size, kids, it's how much unique stuff you fit in.
every single one of Bethesda's games except Daggerfall have gigantic amounts of spatial compression so that they don't be like... daggerfall.
Post by: itisnotlogical on June 23, 2015, 02:17:07 am
hilariouslyYup. It's not the size, kids, it's how much unique stuff you fit in.
every single one of Bethesda's games except Daggerfall have gigantic amounts of spatial compression so that they don't be like... daggerfall.
Also, it takes several minutes to traverse one pixel of the Daggerfall map, making the huge expansive world largely theoretical since it'd be impossible (for any sane person) to beat the game without instantly fast-travelling to every destination anyway.
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 23, 2015, 02:33:08 am
Fallout 3 was "Oblivion with guns", so the next game's title is pretty obvious.
Post by: UXLZ on June 23, 2015, 02:42:00 am
hilariouslyYup. It's not the size, kids, it's how much unique stuff you fit in.
every single one of Bethesda's games except Daggerfall have gigantic amounts of spatial compression so that they don't be like... daggerfall.
Also, it takes several minutes to traverse one pixel of the Daggerfall map, making the huge expansive world largely theoretical since it'd be impossible (for any sane person) to beat the game without instantly fast-travelling to every destination anyway.
If the Beth games didn't have a terribru engine you could use vehicles of some description. :v
Post by: itisnotlogical on June 23, 2015, 03:37:16 am
Post by: Krevsin on June 23, 2015, 03:50:22 am
Post by: AoshimaMichio on June 23, 2015, 03:58:59 am
I thought horses basically were medieval vehicles? There were boats in Daggerfall and in some parts of Morrowind, and carts in Skyrim as well (although the latter two were basically fast travel systems).
Skyrim's carts do not move. They are static objects in the world that teleport you in different places and pass some time while doing so. Unless you refer to that one mod that makes them actually move.
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 23, 2015, 04:56:00 am
Fun fact: All of the code necessary for the carts to actually move is present in the game. There is even a mod which enables it. They can and will slowly trot you between cities and towns.I thought horses basically were medieval vehicles? There were boats in Daggerfall and in some parts of Morrowind, and carts in Skyrim as well (although the latter two were basically fast travel systems).
Skyrim's carts do not move. They are static objects in the world that teleport you in different places and pass some time while doing so. Unless you refer to that one mod that makes them actually move.
It's just bloody boring.
Post by: TempAcc on June 23, 2015, 08:14:14 am
Now that they do have means of generating entertaining content between actualy stablished places in the game world, don't see why they wouldn't further explore that, like they did with skyrim, which was shock full of stuff between point A and point B, and allowed you to easily get sidetracked.
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 23, 2015, 08:18:28 am
Post by: TempAcc on June 23, 2015, 08:24:18 am
We'd have Brutal Daggerfall: In which you violently slash people's naughty bits and dungeons are more like actual dungeons and less like R'lyeh.
Post by: UXLZ on June 23, 2015, 08:32:11 am
Entertaining? Ehhhh~~~, so-so. Some was good, some was bad.
Post by: JimboM12 on June 23, 2015, 08:56:39 am
This is going to be a painful year for my wallet; both the Heart of Thorns expansion for Guild Wars 2 and Fallout 4 are going to make a bit of a dent.
Post by: UXLZ on June 23, 2015, 09:01:12 am
If I think it's actually anything interesting, that is. I don't want something that just makes you more powerful quickly. Higher level loot is never a good idea for pre-order/dlc content unless it has to be earned at a place of equivalent difficulty.
Post by: JimboM12 on June 23, 2015, 09:08:02 am
Post by: itisnotlogical on June 23, 2015, 09:16:46 am
Bethesda started doing space compression stuff with their game worlds after daggerfall because they didn't have means to make the sheer space between locations interesting. In daggerfall you'd be lucky to find a single monster while wandering the wilds, and the draw distance was so tiny you'd be pretty much only seeing flat terrain and fog for hours. Thats why the world felt so tiny in morrowind, since they made a point of the player being able to travel around freely on the game world as an important gameplay feature, but didn't want people to trek through massive deserted 3D areas that would explode their processors or something.
Now that they do have means of generating entertaining content between actualy stablished places in the game world, don't see why they wouldn't further explore that, like they did with skyrim, which was shock full of stuff between point A and point B, and allowed you to easily get sidetracked.
Idunno, I think Morrowind found the perfect balance between content and expanse. In Skyrim, there's so much stuff packed into such a tiny game world that you can't walk two feet without tripping over a dwarven ruin, cult hideout or Daedric artifact. In Morrowind there's just enough dungeons/towns/ruins/etc. that the world feels occupied but they're far enough apart that it seems natural, and the terrain between landmarks is also fun to explore. Morrowind feels like a world while Skyrim feels like a playset, if that makes sense.
Post by: UXLZ on June 23, 2015, 09:19:49 am
Skyrim: Walk, Horse, Fast-travel.
Morrowind: Flying, Jumping, Teleporting (Mages Guild + Interventions + Mark/Recall), Silt-striders, boats, running reallyreallyreallyfast.
Spoiler: Tangent (click to show/hide)
Post by: TempAcc on June 23, 2015, 09:20:38 am
Bethesda started doing space compression stuff with their game worlds after daggerfall because they didn't have means to make the sheer space between locations interesting. In daggerfall you'd be lucky to find a single monster while wandering the wilds, and the draw distance was so tiny you'd be pretty much only seeing flat terrain and fog for hours. Thats why the world felt so tiny in morrowind, since they made a point of the player being able to travel around freely on the game world as an important gameplay feature, but didn't want people to trek through massive deserted 3D areas that would explode their processors or something.
Now that they do have means of generating entertaining content between actualy stablished places in the game world, don't see why they wouldn't further explore that, like they did with skyrim, which was shock full of stuff between point A and point B, and allowed you to easily get sidetracked.
Idunno, I think Morrowind found the perfect balance between content and expanse. In Skyrim, there's so much stuff packed into such a tiny game world that you can't walk two feet without tripping over a dwarven ruin, cult hideout or Daedric artifact. In Morrowind there's just enough dungeons/towns/ruins/etc. that the world feels occupied but they're far enough apart that it seems natural, and the terrain between landmarks is also fun to explore. Morrowind feels like a world while Skyrim feels like a playset, if that makes sense.
I can see that. Skyrim's world was significantly large, but it was just so shock full of stuff that it did feel kinda like an amusement park at times. Very rarely will you find desolate areas with just the occasional animal around. Morrowing did things properly according to the scale of the game world. Me perceiving morrowing as tiny probably comes from abuse of the levitation spell, since I always played a mage and levitation made travelling from one place to another mostly trivial.
Post by: UXLZ on June 23, 2015, 09:22:36 am
Post by: itisnotlogical on June 23, 2015, 09:29:42 am
I abused the Travel-Stained Pants. Simpler than scrolls and cheaper than training magic, since I only ever needed levitation for a few seconds at a time anyway. I usually used it to hop over mountain ranges, which immensely cut down on travel time later in the game.
Post by: JimboM12 on June 23, 2015, 09:53:45 am
Post by: TempAcc on June 23, 2015, 10:37:45 am
Post by: Krevsin on June 23, 2015, 10:38:30 am
I mean it looks more similar to the originals, but I always liked the look of vault jumpsuits in NV and FO3. A bit more comfy to wear.
Post by: AlleeCat on June 23, 2015, 11:09:31 am
Heads up for anyone who didn't already know, but you can begin preordering Fallout 4 on Steam. Just saw the pop up myself.Ugh, yea. I bought Heart of thorns, myself, and then ended up buying my girlfriend the game as well so that we could play together. TFW it's the same price to upgrade as it is to buy a brand new copy...
This is going to be a painful year for my wallet; both the Heart of Thorns expansion for Guild Wars 2 and Fallout 4 are going to make a bit of a dent.
Post by: Elfeater on June 23, 2015, 11:19:59 am
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 23, 2015, 11:20:08 am
One thing that bothers me about FO4. The vault jumpsuit. It looks... weird. Like it really fits too tight.There are a few other objects in FO4 that look more like their counterparts in FO1/FO2 than FO3. Vertibirds in Fallout 4 (http://i.imgur.com/nxgE7ro.jpg) now have the dragonfly-esque canopy they had in Fallout 2 (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/File:Fo2_vertibird.png). The Nuka-Cola vending machine from the trailer (http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/5/53/Nuka_Cola_vending_machine_FO4.png) is also slightly similar to its FO1 counterpart (http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/4/41/Fo1_Nuka_Cola_vending_machine.png).
I mean it looks more similar to the originals, but I always liked the look of vault jumpsuits in NV and FO3. A bit more comfy to wear.
It seems that Bethesda's artists decided to splice the old and the new designs when they were designing Fallout 4 props.
Post by: UXLZ on June 23, 2015, 06:50:35 pm
Actually, I think that's the issue. The compass that tells you about all the locations before you've found them. If FO4 has a similar mechanic, I'll see if I can find or make myself a mod that gets rid of the unfound locations markers.
It's not like Morrowind was perfect, either. Some thing (especially the shrine of Moon and Stars) was a enormous pain in the ass to find. Though that also made it more enjoyable when you did find it.
Exploring in Morrowind is fun, in Skyrim it isn't, since you know where everything is before you find it anyway.
Actually, I think that's the difference. If I were to describe the paths you take, Skyrim is full of straight lines from locaton to location, looking at the compass more than the actual screen. In Morrowind you meander, get distracted, spot something interesting and go over to check it out. You meander, you actually search for things, and since it isn't as saturated finding something's a genuinejoy. I remember the first time I played Morrowind I stumbled onto a Daedric Shrine all by myself and was like "Whoaaah, this place is awesome. I wonder what I can find?"
Post by: Putnam on June 23, 2015, 07:00:42 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on June 23, 2015, 07:25:19 pm
also do not preorder, preording digital stuff is universally dumb and purposelessOr at the very least wait until there's a special preorder bonus edition announced so there'll be at least a smidgen of porpoise to doing so.
Post by: BigD145 on June 23, 2015, 07:36:57 pm
also do not preorder, preording digital stuff is universally dumb and purposelessOr at the very least wait until there's a special preorder bonus edition announced so there'll be at least a smidgen of porpoise to doing so.
SPECIAL NEVER BEFORE SEEN CAMO-SKINNED SNIPER RIFLE
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on June 23, 2015, 07:43:24 pm
SPECIAL EXTRA-BUGGY LAUNCH VERSIONalso do not preorder, preording digital stuff is universally dumb and purposelessOr at the very least wait until there's a special preorder bonus edition announced so there'll be at least a smidgen of porpoise to doing so.
SPECIAL NEVER BEFORE SEEN CAMO-SKINNED SNIPER RIFLESpoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Putnam on June 23, 2015, 07:50:24 pm
Post by: BigD145 on June 23, 2015, 07:52:15 pm
SPECIAL EXTRA-BUGGY LAUNCH VERSIONalso do not preorder, preording digital stuff is universally dumb and purposelessOr at the very least wait until there's a special preorder bonus edition announced so there'll be at least a smidgen of porpoise to doing so.
SPECIAL NEVER BEFORE SEEN CAMO-SKINNED SNIPER RIFLESpoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
We'll be lucky if Day 1 the game doesn't crash before finishing the intro video.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 23, 2015, 07:58:41 pm
except that that's also kinda true
Except we don't know that. It's not an unreasonable assumption given Bethesda's track record, but it's also not a universal law that Bethesda games must be unplayable at launch.
Post by: BigD145 on June 23, 2015, 08:01:39 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on June 23, 2015, 08:09:31 pm
- Playing a game on launch day is a special thing. It's sort of been degraded because you aren't standing in line for it any more, but it's a nostalgia hit. It also gives you a good baseline to measure mods &c. against, and if you're motivated you can help catalog the bugs.
- If you don't play it at its worst you can't be a condescending e-geezer when people complain about later, lesser issues. :P
Post by: Draignean on June 23, 2015, 09:09:57 pm
The reasons are twofold:The first is also very important. Being one of the first people to experience something is special. It makes it so that when you talk with your friends (or random stranger, or dog/cat) about what you just played, you're both experiencing the same sense of wonder and "I can't wait to see THAT!" that the Bethesda induced water cooler chats do so well. Hell, even the parts of Skyrim that turned out to be pretty awful (namely, that ending) were thrilling to skirt the edge of spoilers with when you hadn't played it through yet.
- Playing a game on launch day is a special thing. It's sort of been degraded because you aren't standing in line for it any more, but it's a nostalgia hit. It also gives you a good baseline to measure mods &c. against, and if you're motivated you can help catalog the bugs.
- If you don't play it at its worst you can't be a condescending e-geezer when people complain about later, lesser issues. :P
Exploring in Morrowind is fun, in Skyrim it isn't, since you know where everything is before you find it anyway.
Actually, I think that's the difference. If I were to describe the paths you take, Skyrim is full of straight lines from locaton to location, looking at the compass more than the actual screen. In Morrowind you meander, get distracted, spot something interesting and go over to check it out. You meander, you actually search for things, and since it isn't as saturated finding something's a genuinejoy. I remember the first time I played Morrowind I stumbled onto a Daedric Shrine all by myself and was like "Whoaaah, this place is awesome. I wonder what I can find?"
I agree with this 100%. Hunting through the angular architecture of a daedric ruin to find the bloody door was real exploration. Actually double checking all those marshy coastal islands for hidden dungeons (which often had incredible loot) was real exploration. Learning to tell the difference, at a distant glance, from the entrance to a dunmer ancestral tomb and a funnily shaped rock seemed like the kind of skill an adventurer would actually develop.
Quest markers are occasionally very nice things. Some of the directions in Morrowind were the fantasy equivalent of 'turn left at the dead cow', but their excessive use can be irritating.
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 23, 2015, 09:13:01 pm
Post by: Draignean on June 23, 2015, 09:28:24 pm
I am amused by the idea that standing in a line somehow makes playing a game more special
You're missing a critical word. Standing in a line (if you're really pumped about it) makes playing the game feel more special. Anticipation is a critical part of human psyche, and is integrally related to emotion. Horror movies and games have shown us (repeatedly) that showing us a big bloody face with hanging bits of tendon and an exposed larynx that pulses constantly as though still trying to scream is effective once for shock value, but keeping the monster just out of sight and revealing it piece by piece can keep people in a state of near-urination for hours. (Amnesia: The Dark Descent, excellent example of what you can do with this idea)
The idea that standing in a line makes something feel special (when the person standing in line has an investment) is better known as dramatic tension. And is a well known literary device that is absolutely stunning when done correctly. When someone in a tense situation (waiting on a test result, doctor's notice, job posting) says that it's the waiting they can't stand, this is what's getting them.
Does standing in line make a game more special? No, not one little bitty bit. Does it make if feel more special? Absolutely. It's the ticking lurch at the beginning of the roller coaster, the slow ascent that can somehow manage to induce more terror than the ride itself, and finally the awful/wonderful lurch of going over the edge and getting what you want.
Post by: UXLZ on June 23, 2015, 10:01:31 pm
Still, getting it day one at least isn't as inanely stupid as pre-ordering. At least that way you can wait a few hours to see if it at least kinda-sorta works well enough to be worth playing, and doesn't crash immediately after the tutorial.
Post by: Draignean on June 23, 2015, 10:11:36 pm
I would agree with you that there was a benefit to standing in line/getting a game day one if we still lived in 2005 and game's working out of the box was the norm, rather than vice-versa.
Don't know what to tell you. I played Skyrim day one, had one CTD. I don't even remember if Fallout 3 had a crash until I started doing stupid things with it. Fallout NV I remember being an incredibly stable vanilla. However, my meaningless personal anecdotes that add nothing to logical discussion aside, it's a matter of perception. You and forsaken may derive no benefit from the immediate waiting period, having already rationalized that (bear with me here) that the game will be better if you wait a little longer. Different personality types, different methods of deriving enjoyment. Flying Dice and myself will benefit from waiting in line, or checking every five minutes for a package, or waiting up every minute for the midnight unlock, whichever particular poison we've chosen.
Post by: UXLZ on June 23, 2015, 10:33:56 pm
I believe FO3 and especially New Vegas were fine... But then again, New Vegas was made by a different studio.
Still, those games came out at the dawn of the new era. It wasn't common for release day games to be unplayable yet, though I think there was still crap like Sim City 5's launch.
Poison indeed. I'll just hope for your sake that Bethesda doesn't go the Ubisoft route and you actually have a functional game to play. At least with Steam Refunds now existing immediate failures won't be as bad, though a game like FO4 I can see crashing at 3, or 4, or 5.
I do have a very logic and rationality-driven thought process, but please for the love of god don't pre-order. At least wait until they announce the inevitable pre-order exclusive bonus content. You'll still get your anticipation high from waiting in line or waiting for it to unlock, but there is literally no reason to pre-order right now. Even from a perspective like yours it should still seem ridiculous, since it's starting the wait waaaay too early and you'll be excitement-fatigued by the time it comes out (or something.)
Post by: Draignean on June 23, 2015, 10:54:22 pm
Skyrim wasn't unstable but CTD-wise but incredibly buggy.
I believe FO3 and especially New Vegas were fine... But then again, New Vegas was made by a different studio.
Still, those games came out at the dawn of the new era. It wasn't common for release day games to be unplayable yet, though I think there was still crap like Sim City 5's launch.
Poison indeed. I'll just hope for your sake that Bethesda doesn't go the Ubisoft route and you actually have a functional game to play. At least with Steam Refunds now existing immediate failures won't be as bad, though a game like FO4 I can see crashing at 3, or 4, or 5.
I do have a very logic and rationality-driven thought process, but please for the love of god don't pre-order. At least wait until they announce the inevitable pre-order exclusive bonus content. You'll still get your anticipation high from waiting in line or waiting for it to unlock, but there is literally no reason to pre-order right now. Even from a perspective like yours it should still seem ridiculous, since it's starting the wait waaaay too early and you'll be excitement-fatigued by the time it comes out (or something.)
I will almost undoubtedly pre-order. However, I probably won't preorder until I've bought and built the PC I'm going to be using to play the game. That deadline is almost 100 days out, so there's time. If, however, the pip-boy edition runs low of stock I'll be forced to make a hard call on how much I want an unwieldy chunk of plastic. Makes a great gift though, even if I don't end up buying that edition for myself.
Quote
Even from a perspective like yours it should still seem ridiculous, since it's starting the wait waaaay too early and you'll be excitement-fatigued by the time it comes out (or something.)
Careful, UXLZ "Even from a perspective like yours", is a great beginning to an insult, not a logical and rational argument. :P I do, however, agree. I'm a fanboy, but, as I said above, there's a lot of time left on the clock. Plus it falls on a Tuesday near the end of the fall semester, so I'll need to be a bit more temporally proximate to know if I'll even be able to play it at all on the release date. Plus, it releases on the birthday of the U.S marine core, so it's entirely possible I might be out for other reasons.
Post by: scriver on June 24, 2015, 12:24:12 am
-sigh-, pre-order pre-order. I'll probably wait 'till the game is released, buy it, then pirate it so I can get inevitable pre-order exclusive content without having to commit such a stupid act.
If I think it's actually anything interesting, that is. I don't want something that just makes you more powerful quickly. Higher level loot is never a good idea for pre-order/dlc content unless it has to be earned at a place of equivalent difficulty.
It should be noted that until we know exactly what kind of anti-piracy stuff that bethesda.net thing will include we don't know if pirating it will be
Post by: AlleeCat on June 24, 2015, 12:25:07 am
Skyrim wasn't unstable but CTD-wise but incredibly buggy.Sim City 5, Diablo 3, Arkham Knight...
I believe FO3 and especially New Vegas were fine... But then again, New Vegas was made by a different studio.
Still, those games came out at the dawn of the new era. It wasn't common for release day games to be unplayable yet, though I think there was still crap like Sim City 5's launch.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 24, 2015, 01:00:22 am
I do have a very logic and rationality-driven thought process, but please for the love of god don't pre-order. At least wait until they announce the inevitable pre-order exclusive bonus content.That's exactly what I was originally saying. :P
That, and I want to make sure my computer can run it. I can handle Skyrim with 2k texture mods everywhere and all the settings up high, so I should be fine, but better safe than sorry.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 24, 2015, 02:30:48 am
Post by: miauw62 on June 24, 2015, 04:54:02 am
Eh, they'll crack it. Being the first to have a crack for a hyped-up game is an achievement in that world, or so I've heard. And I very much doubt that trying to separate modding from the established websites is going to end well.-sigh-, pre-order pre-order. I'll probably wait 'till the game is released, buy it, then pirate it so I can get inevitable pre-order exclusive content without having to commit such a stupid act.
If I think it's actually anything interesting, that is. I don't want something that just makes you more powerful quickly. Higher level loot is never a good idea for pre-order/dlc content unless it has to be earned at a place of equivalent difficulty.
It should be noted that until we know exactly what kind of anti-piracy stuff that bethesda.net thing will include we don't know if pirating it will bepossiblefeasible. It could very well be that Beth wants to use mod attraction power as DRM or something.
Post by: scriver on June 24, 2015, 05:29:00 am
but the preorder bonus is physical :/
I don't think they've announced a preorder bonus yet? The pip-boy thingy is, iirc, a special collector's/pip-boy edition.
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 24, 2015, 05:32:06 am
Does standing in line make a game more special? No, not one little bitty bit. Does it make if feel more special? Absolutely. It's the ticking lurch at the beginning of the roller coaster, the slow ascent that can somehow manage to induce more terror than the ride itself, and finally the awful/wonderful lurch of going over the edge and getting what you want.I guess everyone has their little quirks. Personally I couldn't stand the whole midnight release event and gamer culture crap so I avoid brick and mortar stores. Games are things I do for entertainment. No way am I going to wait breathlessly in line for the privilege of owning one.
Post by: JimboM12 on June 24, 2015, 08:10:23 am
The last midnight release thing I did at a store was for Starcraft 2. It was actually a hoot, tbh. The store had overstock of promo pieces they started giving out as rewards for a quiz thing. Asked questions about the starcraft universe at first, then degenerated to nerd shit, and we were loving it. "Which starcraft hero did X?" "EN TARO TASSADAR!" and the crowd goes wild, being hopped up on energy drinks and hype. Good times, but then I money and time back then.
Anyway, the FO4 hype has led me to reinstall Fallout 2, 3, and New Vegas. Still couldn't find my disk for Fallout 1. Anyway, got the Restoration project for 2 with a better Miria mod and larger companion limit and its better then I remembered.
Miria's actually damn good with a 10mm SMG, at med-short distances. Cassidy's got a CAWs I got early off a dead raider, and he's shredding shit. Vic's alright, I got him a hunting rifle and he's alright with it. Sulik I got a suit of metal armor and a .223 pistol, by far he's the most consistently deadly. I plan on picking up Marcus and Goris when I get there. Didn't get Lenny cuz his sprite doesn't run, and I don't wanna leave him behind, but for completions sake I might go back and pick him up too. Gonna leave a certain genius asshole kid where he is, cuz I'm mister goody two shoes. Surprised we can all fit in my shiny pimp car.
Which brings me to Fallout 4 speculation/hype; will it have the same diverse array of companions as all the other games? Considering they're adding PC voices, and im assuming with actual conversations, they might limit it so they can focus on companion stories/interaction. I wonder if they're going to have to make it so you need power armor training again, the E3 demo looked like a staged battle, tbh, and I assume we have to learn how to use such a suit now that its not an inventory item no more. That actually sounds really awesome, I hope one of our early companions is someone who knows nothing about combat and we get to teach them how to shoot as we go and eventually teach to use power armor. Basically, I want another Miria who's much less annoying without mods.
Post by: Sergius on June 24, 2015, 09:26:23 am
Standing in a line for hours during the 80's sure didn't make the toilet paper or rice I had to buy feel any more special.
Post by: BigD145 on June 24, 2015, 09:47:09 am
http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2011/05/27/pip-boy-3000-fallout-3-arm-mounted-iphone-dock-pics/
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Gehaeuse-Hardware-213436/News/Casemod-843101/
http://hackaday.com/2012/11/14/a-wearable-pipboy-3000/
You want nostalgia and a sense of accomplishment? Build your own.
Standing in line with other people usually just amounted to playing other games and talking about other games, which can be done ANYWHERE.
Post by: Tellemurius on June 24, 2015, 10:01:26 am
Post by: scriver on June 24, 2015, 10:49:27 am
Just wanted to add my two cents to the pre-order conversation.
Standing in a line for hours during the 80's sure didn't make the toilet paper or rice I had to buy feel any more special.
On the contrary, standing in line for 50 minutes to get to use the toilets at a festival made the eventual visit feel much better.
Post by: BigD145 on June 24, 2015, 11:10:04 am
Just wanted to add my two cents to the pre-order conversation.
Standing in a line for hours during the 80's sure didn't make the toilet paper or rice I had to buy feel any more special.
On the contrary, standing in line for 50 minutes to get to use the toilets at a festival made the eventual visit feel much better.
But doesn't balance the 50 minutes of discomfort/pain.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 24, 2015, 04:49:35 pm
Just wanted to add my two cents to the pre-order conversation.
Standing in a line for hours during the 80's sure didn't make the toilet paper or rice I had to buy feel any more special.
Toilet paper and rice are things you need, not things you want. You don't get excited when you go to get toilet paper and rice (unless you've been eating gruel and wiping with your hand for years). There's no communal feeling associated with waiting for the new brand of toilet paper or rice to be released -- and mundane products don't have the same nature as games in the sense of "newness". You buy whatever's cheap.
Nobody is saying that "waiting in line = good". It's the atmosphere it creates when you're waiting for a special thing which you've been anticipating, the emotional buildup, and the sense of camaraderie.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 24, 2015, 05:14:23 pm
Post by: BigD145 on June 24, 2015, 05:22:32 pm
and the sense of camaraderie.
"Can I scoot ahead of you in line?"
I've had much better evenings in the comfort of someone's home, not sitting in line in front of a retail store trading bathroom trips with a friend because otherwise we'd both lose our spots.
Post by: itisnotlogical on June 24, 2015, 09:19:37 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 25, 2015, 06:34:20 am
Post by: JimboM12 on June 25, 2015, 07:30:10 am
and the sense of camaraderie.
"Can I scoot ahead of you in line?"
I've had much better evenings in the comfort of someone's home, not sitting in line in front of a retail store trading bathroom trips with a friend because otherwise we'd both lose our spots.
I got that feeling when installing games back in the day, when the installer would take up your entire screen with artwork and play music while installing the game, and you actually had to sit there and watch for when it wanted you to change the disk out. That would take ten minutes at most, though. My patience for a line at a Gamestop (or wherever) would be well worn-out by the half hour mark, even if the game being released were Half-Life 3 or something similarly momentous.
Is this what people think preorder lines are like?
When I went to pick up SC2, me and a friend got there about 45 minutes before release (we were thinking the same thing as you guys: lines), the guys at the gamestop simply asked our names and order numbers/receipts and showed us our copies, then put a sticky note with the name and a number on it and gave you a small note with the number. As soon as midnight hit, things went fast and smooth as they set up 3 lines where they called the numbers in numerical order. Got it done in minutes. There were only maybe 40 people waiting at that store, but still.
I don't have time for that these days, I'd rather just order it on Steam the day before or so and get it preloaded that night.
But the thing is other than Fallout 4, no recent releases have risen to "HOLY SHIT" levels with me since SC2 (It looked like it was going to be the shit then) and Skyrim. But then, I preordered online for Skyrim, and got it loaded that night, no fuss.
I for one, will be preordering Fallout 4 the night before release, cuz it's reached hype level "HOLY SHIT" from those Trailers/E3 demo.
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 25, 2015, 07:34:23 am
Post by: UXLZ on June 25, 2015, 07:35:39 am
Post by: JimboM12 on June 25, 2015, 07:49:53 am
I don't know how typical this is but apparently the shop near me in the Mall had over 700 people turn out for Skyrim's midnight release and it was chaos. I wasn't there but a buddy sent me pictures when he went in. I had bought it online and my copy arrived the day before.
Dem console heads ruining the times of the glorious PC Gaming Masterrace, no doubt. But yeah, I heard scare stories of how many console versions were being sold at my local gamestop so I demurred and chose Steam preorder instead.
Post by: BigD145 on June 25, 2015, 09:15:45 am
and the sense of camaraderie.
"Can I scoot ahead of you in line?"
I've had much better evenings in the comfort of someone's home, not sitting in line in front of a retail store trading bathroom trips with a friend because otherwise we'd both lose our spots.I got that feeling when installing games back in the day, when the installer would take up your entire screen with artwork and play music while installing the game, and you actually had to sit there and watch for when it wanted you to change the disk out. That would take ten minutes at most, though. My patience for a line at a Gamestop (or wherever) would be well worn-out by the half hour mark, even if the game being released were Half-Life 3 or something similarly momentous.
Is this what people think preorder lines are like?
When I went to pick up SC2, me and a friend got there about 45 minutes before release (we were thinking the same thing as you guys: lines), the guys at the gamestop simply asked our names and order numbers/receipts and showed us our copies, then put a sticky note with the name and a number on it and gave you a small note with the number. As soon as midnight hit, things went fast and smooth as they set up 3 lines where they called the numbers in numerical order. Got it done in minutes. There were only maybe 40 people waiting at that store, but still.
I don't have time for that these days, I'd rather just order it on Steam the day before or so and get it preloaded that night.
But the thing is other than Fallout 4, no recent releases have risen to "HOLY SHIT" levels with me since SC2 (It looked like it was going to be the shit then) and Skyrim. But then, I preordered online for Skyrim, and got it loaded that night, no fuss.
I for one, will be preordering Fallout 4 the night before release, cuz it's reached hype level "HOLY SHIT" from those Trailers/E3 demo.
I see you have not waited in a line 2-24 hours for anything.
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 25, 2015, 09:47:15 am
I can just buy it a few days later when the second truck comes, and nobody will be in line at all. Or in the case of very high demand products, a week later.
Post by: Sergius on June 25, 2015, 01:26:56 pm
Post by: JimboM12 on June 25, 2015, 01:30:41 pm
There needs to be a quest in Fallout 4 where you have to stand in line for several hours to get a limited edition Nuka Cola. Or a game cart for the Pimpboy maybe?
Even better, Desert Bus: Fallout edition. If you sway too far off the road and get stuck, instead of getting towed, you get ambushed by super mutants.
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 25, 2015, 01:35:42 pm
It's very hard to buy physical copies here anyway, because the majority of shops that used to sell games here have closed down over the past few years. Steam, torrents and cheap Internet have made them go out of business.
Post by: Kaje on June 25, 2015, 01:39:26 pm
Post by: BigD145 on June 25, 2015, 03:19:09 pm
I don't get the whole queuing argument, because I think electronic copies are more convenient.
It's very hard to buy physical copies here anyway, because the majority of shops that used to sell games here have closed down over the past few years. Steam, torrents and cheap Internet have made them go out of business.
The US is still a very big share of video game sales and US internet access is shit compared to most of the rest of the world, many 3rd world countries included.
Post by: SealyStar on June 25, 2015, 03:27:20 pm
...Do I need to reinstate my "99% of redditors" signature"?I don't get the whole queuing argument, because I think electronic copies are more convenient.
It's very hard to buy physical copies here anyway, because the majority of shops that used to sell games here have closed down over the past few years. Steam, torrents and cheap Internet have made them go out of business.
The US is still a very big share of video game sales and US internet access is shit compared to most of the rest of the world, many 3rd world countries included.
Post by: miauw62 on June 25, 2015, 03:28:42 pm
Post by: BigD145 on June 25, 2015, 03:39:17 pm
Meh, is there anything wrong with being jealous of good internet, considering how big games are getting?
60GB's is 1/5th of my monthly limit and I wouldn't dare do it with anything less than a torrent because it's likely to take more than 24 hours. I think I'd actually save money by burning gas to get to a physical store. I'd certainly save money walking and burning calories.
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 25, 2015, 03:59:09 pm
Post by: Vendayn on June 25, 2015, 04:03:02 pm
Meh, is there anything wrong with being jealous of good internet, considering how big games are getting?
60GB's is 1/5th of my monthly limit and I wouldn't dare do it with anything less than a torrent because it's likely to take more than 24 hours. I think I'd actually save money by burning gas to get to a physical store. I'd certainly save money walking and burning calories.
You are still going to need to use steam to install Fallout 4. I don't imagine it being any different than most games or how Skyrim was.
Unless you are getting it on consoles.
Post by: Flying Dice on June 25, 2015, 04:50:15 pm
Meh, is there anything wrong with being jealous of good internet, considering how big games are getting?
60GB's is 1/5th of my monthly limit and I wouldn't dare do it with anything less than a torrent because it's likely to take more than 24 hours. I think I'd actually save money by burning gas to get to a physical store. I'd certainly save money walking and burning calories.
You are still going to need to use steam to install Fallout 4. I don't imagine it being any different than most games or how Skyrim was.
Unless you are getting it on consoles.
If you're buying a Bethesda title for console at this point, it's entirely your own fault. :P
Post by: Vendayn on June 25, 2015, 04:59:02 pm
Meh, is there anything wrong with being jealous of good internet, considering how big games are getting?
60GB's is 1/5th of my monthly limit and I wouldn't dare do it with anything less than a torrent because it's likely to take more than 24 hours. I think I'd actually save money by burning gas to get to a physical store. I'd certainly save money walking and burning calories.
You are still going to need to use steam to install Fallout 4. I don't imagine it being any different than most games or how Skyrim was.
Unless you are getting it on consoles.
If you're buying a Bethesda title for console at this point, it's entirely your own fault. :P
bethesda makes broken games on consoles lol. I'd hate to be a console player and play Skyrim.
My friend's experience with skyrim on his xbox360:
"wooo 400 hour character, nearly 100%...oh save corrupted..."
100 hours later on new character...save corrupted.
98 hours the main quest bugs and he has no save that works with main quest
tries to do dawnguard, but for some reason none of the scripts are activating properly because he beat the main quest and the game started acting weird
Then everything works, 300 hours in...save corrupted...
(edit: oh to add, skyrim made his xbox360 do that red death thing or whatever its called, three times. Each time he was playing skyrim when it happened and something in the game got corrupted and ruined his xbox and he'd need it repaired)
Finally, he buys it on steam :P
And then he goes and buys fallout 4 for his xbox one :P I imagine he'll be just as pissed off as he was with skyrim. He prefers console gaming, but still. He keeps hitting his head on the wall with console bethesda games lol.
Post by: LordPyrrole on June 25, 2015, 05:03:53 pm
Post by: Teneb on June 25, 2015, 06:28:10 pm
Wow, I may have sub-par internet compared to some places and a significant ping due to being in south america, but boy am I glad size limits to how much you can download/upload is not a thing here (illegal, I think, but not 100% sure).Meh, is there anything wrong with being jealous of good internet, considering how big games are getting?
60GB's is 1/5th of my monthly limit and I wouldn't dare do it with anything less than a torrent because it's likely to take more than 24 hours. I think I'd actually save money by burning gas to get to a physical store. I'd certainly save money walking and burning calories.
Post by: Lightningfalcon on June 25, 2015, 08:47:06 pm
Post by: Draignean on June 25, 2015, 08:59:24 pm
60 gb? I had that much for half a year. Dear god I love college internet so much. Can download more in a few minutes then I could in an entire month, even without data limits.
This. The internet connection my family has is capped at 15Gb (!) a month. With a campus connection I can download a 40Gb game in a little less than half an hour. On of the very few things about college that actually feels on par with the expense.
Post by: dwarf_reform on June 25, 2015, 09:23:01 pm
inb4 the "Ugh, they dumbed down Fallout 4!" Skyrim vs Old Elder Scrolls arguments ;) We'll see about this, since they did add the ammo crafting element to New Vegas, which actually added more things to the game (and may have confused some people, even!) ;)
Lastly, all this talk is totally useless to me because it'll be another year or two before I purchase my first (used) next-gen console :> Bought my 1st PS3 for 150 bucks used and am still playing it today :> I also paid no more than 20 bucks each for all the "heavy hitter" games (excluding GTA V and Dark Souls 1 + 2, which I gladly pre-ordered..) Just bought my brother a copy of 360 New Vegas from the local GameStop for 3 dollars :> I'd like to be financially cool enough to buy all this stuff fresh at new-price but it isn't in the cards :D As a side-effect, though, the games are nice and patched (or as patched as they'll ever be) once I get them, and the consoles have had some time in the market to show off all their worst/most glaring problems..
All that useless stuff said, hell yeah I'm hyped for Fallout 4 :D Hopefully the non-VATS gunplay will be a lot more "grounded" and usable in this one :>
Post by: UXLZ on June 25, 2015, 09:58:28 pm
Do note that New Vegas was not developed by Bethesda.
It was Obsidian.
*edit* Blech, typos, as evident in Sensei's quote. :v
Post by: Sensei on June 25, 2015, 10:03:30 pm
I rarely ever used VATS in New-Vegas. Then again, I played as a Sniper using an Anti-Material Rifle (I know, not the most effective weapons, but 10/10 for badass points), so it was practically useless.Yup, New Vegas is all Obsidian. I predict that, overall, the trend of less complicated character customization, RPG elements and less varied abilities will continue, and we will all complain, and then we will buy it anyway, albeit possibly the complete edition for the same price as the original full release during the 2016 Steam Summer Sale, or at a reduced price during the 2016 Steam Winter Sale.
Do note that New Vegas was no developed by Bethesda.
It was Obsidian.
Post by: Iceblaster on June 26, 2015, 02:31:54 pm
Voiced protagonists and mass effect style of 'not knowing exactly what you're gonna say' dialogue choices makes me feel weird. The VAs don't sound bad, but I still feel weird watching the vids. Hopefully it's optional. Please Bethesda.
Building a fort also seems weird. I dunno. Depends on how they handle building. Will it be instant like in the videos or will it require some time/help. Not much of a concern but more like wondering.
On how vats will work: Excited, to be honest. I think I prefer a slow motion vats rather than a full stop. Maybe a trait or park to make it stop time completely.
And weapon customization: Squee :3
My 2 cents of course.
Post by: Yoink on June 27, 2015, 01:33:09 am
Post by: UXLZ on June 27, 2015, 01:36:51 am
*huff*, *huff*
Post by: BigD145 on June 27, 2015, 07:47:24 am
Post by: Mech#4 on June 27, 2015, 08:08:47 am
I think it worked in Mass Effect as well because you were playing a predefined character as it were. There was some things that Shepherd would and wouldn't do regardless of alignment, and outside of that their personality was rather consistent. However, in Baldur's Gate you could see exactly what was going to be said because often the dialogue options were pretty much the same thing but said with different tones so you could role play a type of character better.
As I'm sure others have mentioned before me, whether this would work in Fallout 4 would be more decided on whether you play as a specific character or not. Can I play a character that acts arrogant and condescending to everyone they meet, or as someone who has an extremely short temper and doesn't like people who bandy about with words, or a coward who dislikes any kind of risk to themselves and prefers to manipulate others into doing stuff for them?
If not then the character might be more decided personality wise; haunted by some kind of traumatic childhood, our hero grows up to bring peace and order/cruelty and mayhem to the wasteland. Overall they are coherent, smart, level headed in tense situations, confident in leading, literate etc etc etc.
Post by: SharpKris on June 27, 2015, 08:18:01 am
not the meat of the game which is for me mostly gun play and enclave shananigans
Post by: Virtz on June 27, 2015, 09:34:07 am
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 27, 2015, 09:44:42 am
Post by: Iceblaster on June 27, 2015, 10:22:45 am
Even with its flaws.
Post by: JimboM12 on June 27, 2015, 11:11:05 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 27, 2015, 11:19:34 am
But just grunting at people would probably be seen as politically incorrect these days.
Post by: Aseaheru on June 27, 2015, 11:27:56 am
Time to read the rest of the thread... Wish me luck.
Post by: Virtz on June 27, 2015, 12:02:36 pm
This opens up the question; if speech/SPECIAL stats affect conversations still, did they record low intelligence lines for the PC? I hope so much that they did. In Fallout 2, a low intelligence run was hilarious. That conversation with Torr, who is also lacking in the brains department, was hilariously enlightening.As far as I remember, they didn't even do that for FO3, so doubtful. New Vegas did it, but if memory serves, that didn't have different responses from NPCs like it did in FO1 and 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i54tXdPUScE). It was just rewritten dialogue choices for the player.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on June 27, 2015, 01:34:00 pm
I remember only one location where low intelligence actually mattered. The solar power place, whatever it was called. That is the only place where I remember seeing low int dialogue option.This opens up the question; if speech/SPECIAL stats affect conversations still, did they record low intelligence lines for the PC? I hope so much that they did. In Fallout 2, a low intelligence run was hilarious. That conversation with Torr, who is also lacking in the brains department, was hilariously enlightening.As far as I remember, they didn't even do that for FO3, so doubtful. New Vegas did it, but if memory serves, that didn't have different responses from NPCs like it did in FO1 and 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i54tXdPUScE). It was just rewritten dialogue choices for the player.
Post by: Teneb on June 27, 2015, 02:10:02 pm
In New Vegas? There are a few others. If you are an imbecile or have high luck, you can correctly guess the password ("ICE CREAM!") to disable the security systems in the REPCON (was it REPCON?) museum. A ranger near Nelson will also have special dialogue if you are stupid. I guess there may be a few more around and that obisidian planned to do a lot of them but the deadline prevented it. The solar power plant quest with low intelligence has likely the best dialogue in the game.I remember only one location where low intelligence actually mattered. The solar power place, whatever it was called. That is the only place where I remember seeing low int dialogue option.This opens up the question; if speech/SPECIAL stats affect conversations still, did they record low intelligence lines for the PC? I hope so much that they did. In Fallout 2, a low intelligence run was hilarious. That conversation with Torr, who is also lacking in the brains department, was hilariously enlightening.As far as I remember, they didn't even do that for FO3, so doubtful. New Vegas did it, but if memory serves, that didn't have different responses from NPCs like it did in FO1 and 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i54tXdPUScE). It was just rewritten dialogue choices for the player.
Post by: Guardian G.I. on June 27, 2015, 03:15:32 pm
If you have low INT, you'll get a discount on Intelligence Implants at the New Vegas Medical Clinic, and you can make Arcade Gannon pity you and become your companion.I remember only one location where low intelligence actually mattered. The solar power place, whatever it was called. That is the only place where I remember seeing low int dialogue option.This opens up the question; if speech/SPECIAL stats affect conversations still, did they record low intelligence lines for the PC? I hope so much that they did. In Fallout 2, a low intelligence run was hilarious. That conversation with Torr, who is also lacking in the brains department, was hilariously enlightening.As far as I remember, they didn't even do that for FO3, so doubtful. New Vegas did it, but if memory serves, that didn't have different responses from NPCs like it did in FO1 and 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i54tXdPUScE). It was just rewritten dialogue choices for the player.
Post by: JimboM12 on June 27, 2015, 08:32:50 pm
...Nah, they wouldn't go so far as to voice a mentally handicapped PC, but I bet the nearest thing they would voice is like, a surfer or something.
"Yeah, um, i need those red things that like, heal people? Like, they're in this tube thing with a needle? Yeah, that thing. I'll give you ummmmmm, I think like, 200 caps per is a good trade, right? It is? Hell yeah, burah."
or
*Perform a serious operation on this man's heart* [Doctor skill 90] OR [Int 2] AND [Luck 10]: "You saved my father's life!" "Um, yeah bruah, I just kinda reached around in there and found like, a dark red thing? Yeah."
Wait. You pulled out his heart and somehow saved this mans life.
Post by: Iceblaster on June 27, 2015, 09:07:57 pm
I never knew how much I needed that. Yes. Please :P
Post by: Sensei on June 27, 2015, 10:48:47 pm
"Ugg-lee!"
That made my day.
Post by: ShoesandHats on June 27, 2015, 10:54:12 pm
Post by: miauw62 on June 28, 2015, 03:20:57 am
Post by: itisnotlogical on June 28, 2015, 04:40:22 am
I think you can also join him and become a super mutant, actually.
You get offered that earlier, I believe it's the Lieutenant. I don't think the Master makes a second offer after that.
Man, Fallout 1 still has the best storytelling of any RPG IMHO. Some RPGs get so up themselves with Important Messagestm that it's easy to forget how effective the simple moments are (speaking about the intro and outro especially).
Also, I don't know why this thought just came to me, but FO1 and 2 are the last games in a long time that felt American-made to me. Even big-budget American games set primarily in America and featuring patriotic themes (Modern Warfare, new Splinter Cell, new Rainbow Six, etc.) feel like corporate mass-produced games as opposed to a labor of love by an American development team. It's almost like if you were to compare classic American literature to a classic novel from another country; you can tell the difference even without context. I dunno what I'm rambling on about, it sounded more profound in my head :P
Post by: JimboM12 on June 28, 2015, 03:47:14 pm
I think you can also join him and become a super mutant, actually.
You get offered that earlier, I believe it's the Lieutenant. I don't think the Master makes a second offer after that.
Man, Fallout 1 still has the best storytelling of any RPG IMHO. Some RPGs get so up themselves with Important Messagestm that it's easy to forget how effective the simple moments are (speaking about the intro and outro especially).
Also, I don't know why this thought just came to me, but FO1 and 2 are the last games in a long time that felt American-made to me. Even big-budget American games set primarily in America and featuring patriotic themes (Modern Warfare, new Splinter Cell, new Rainbow Six, etc.) feel like corporate mass-produced games as opposed to a labor of love by an American development team. It's almost like if you were to compare classic American literature to a classic novel from another country; you can tell the difference even without context. I dunno what I'm rambling on about, it sounded more profound in my head :P
This is why most EA games are kinda falling flat to me (alongside the proliferation of DLC marketing they've been working at). I prefer obvious labor of love projects (mostly indie titles these days), like Baldur's Gate back in the day and Prison Architect and Dwarf Fortress and Don't Starve and etc. Games that you make cuz you'd find them fun yourself or you were a fan of D&D or something.
Back to the main reason for this thread; I wonder if they're going to delve a bit deeper into the darker parts of the post-apocalyptia, such as slavery and prostitution, drug trafficking and raiding innocent villages for slaves/loot. Fallout 2/3/New Vegas all the ability to go evil and sate those darker urges. Being top dog around Caesars Legion and feeling the respect you've earned and basically basking in all your horrid deeds felt damn good. Fallout 2 and 3 had the choice to go slaver and help turn people into property and getting respected for it. I wonder if we get to make our own little bandit/slaver fort out in the wastes and have the local slavers come to show of their newly acquired goods and give you the option of purchasing them to put to work growing food/drugs for your criminal empire.
Edit: forgot to mention all the other horrid shit we could force those poor souls to do, like build a whorehouse and staff it with your weekly raids worth of girls.
Post by: Andres on June 28, 2015, 05:57:39 pm
Edit: forgot to mention all the other horrid shit we could force those poor souls to do, like build a whorehouse and staff it with your weekly raids worth of girls.I'm almost certain this would make the game illegal in several different countries.
Post by: JimboM12 on June 28, 2015, 06:27:03 pm
Edit: forgot to mention all the other horrid shit we could force those poor souls to do, like build a whorehouse and staff it with your weekly raids worth of girls.I'm almost certain this would make the game illegal in several different countries.
Yeah, you're right. A lotta games have the option to sell people into slavery and stuff, but actually staffing whorehouses with them might be too far. Still, I do want the ability to buy slaves during an evil run.
Post by: umiman on June 28, 2015, 07:04:28 pm
Also being able to kill kids. Or kids appearing at all.
One of my fondest memories of FO2 is shooting the brains out of the kid who pickpockets you.
...
Maybe I shouldn't say fondest.
Also selling your shotgun wife / husband to slavery. Hehehehe.
Post by: JimboM12 on June 28, 2015, 07:15:50 pm
Heh.
Also being able to kill kids. Or kids appearing at all.
One of my fondest memories of FO2 is shooting the brains out of the kid who pickpockets you.
...
Maybe I shouldn't say fondest.
Also selling your shotgun wife / husband to slavery. Hehehehe.
*Miria misses yet another shot with her SMG*
BEHOLD THE PRICE OF FAILURE.
But that's why I got the Miria mod, she actually gets some skill in small guns so she's not just a pretty face/meatshield/convenient source of money.
Also, if you want those kids in the Den to stop pickpocketing you, just punch one in the face. Restraint, son. Or reverse pickpocket a live bomb into their inventories.
Post by: Putnam on June 28, 2015, 07:28:58 pm
I think you can also join him and become a super mutant, actually.
You get offered that earlier, I believe it's the Lieutenant. I don't think the Master makes a second offer after that.
You can talk to the Master before Lou.
Post by: umiman on June 28, 2015, 07:45:10 pm
I was quite young when I played it. It really is one of my fondest memories as it was my first playthrough of the game and since this was back when the internet wasn't a real thing (at least where I was) I had no clue what this game was about.Heh.
Also being able to kill kids. Or kids appearing at all.
One of my fondest memories of FO2 is shooting the brains out of the kid who pickpockets you.
...
Maybe I shouldn't say fondest.
Also selling your shotgun wife / husband to slavery. Hehehehe.
*Miria misses yet another shot with her SMG*
BEHOLD THE PRICE OF FAILURE.
But that's why I got the Miria mod, she actually gets some skill in small guns so she's not just a pretty face/meatshield/convenient source of money.
Also, if you want those kids in the Den to stop pickpocketing you, just punch one in the face. Restraint, son. Or reverse pickpocket a live bomb into their inventories.
All I knew was that it was an RPG with guns.
Until I reached that point the game was fairly standard. Other than the fact that you could get washed at a bathhouse if you know what I mean (I had no clue what was really happening back then. I was wondering why you'd pay people to wash you).
Then I got to the Den and one of the first thing that happens is some kid runs up and steals your shit. I go apeshit and shoot him. Then he dies. Then inevitably I have to kill everyone who saw this.
So I basically killed everyone in the Den and continued the game as usual. Even beat the game and the ending credits told me how the Den got owned. I missed out on everything that happened in that town because I murdered everyone.
It might not seem like a big deal to the modern day gamer but this was a massive deal to me. I'd never played a game where I could do that before and the game even accounted for me murdering everyone. So much freedom. If it was a JRPG it would probably have been something where I would chase the thief down and eventually she (it's always a she) would join my party. Here I fucking killed him. Then I had to kill everyone else. The epilogue was especially important as it emphasized to me how much I fucked over that town. Even today I struggle to think of other games where this can happen naturally without scripting.
Post by: Iceblaster on June 28, 2015, 09:48:25 pm
That place doesn't give baths? I am slow. And also need to play fallout 1 and 2 :P
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 28, 2015, 10:44:43 pm
HAVEN'T PLAYED FO1/FO2
DIS
GUST
ING
Post by: Andres on June 28, 2015, 10:58:52 pm
Post by: Krevsin on June 29, 2015, 02:49:31 am
New Vegas did tho. I hope FO4 has it also.
Post by: Chiefwaffles on June 29, 2015, 03:15:55 am
What I really miss about Fallout 3 is that traditional Fallout ending ...
... and FO3 didn't have it.
Uh?
Post by: scriver on June 29, 2015, 06:27:04 am
Post by: Krevsin on June 29, 2015, 06:35:33 am
Post by: Majestic7 on June 29, 2015, 01:17:38 pm
You'd play the first two hours in pre-war society / vault after the outset of the war. The game would get gradually weirder and weirder with small hints that the player character is insane. Then there would be a breakdown and the character would find himself as a ghoul from MIT laboratory. It would turn out that he is a feral ghoul who has been experimented upon and made conscious again, pulling him away from his happy delusions of living with his family.
The main plot would have the character finding the ruins of his pre-war life and what happened to his family. Ten he'd have to decide whether to be a smoothskin bootlicker, go all pro-ghoul, try to balance the societies or just go fuck everything. Fuck everything might involve putting up your own society and settlement.
Oh well, one can wish. Betheseda has horrible writers so the main plot will likely be utter shit, like with FO3.
Post by: Bohandas on June 30, 2015, 03:00:45 am
YOU DISGUST MEI've tried, and they have not aged well. The control scheme is absolutely awful and the graphics, in addition to having the low resolution typical of that era of game production, are also just not very well made in general.
HAVEN'T PLAYED FO1/FO2
DIS
GUST
ING
Post by: Bohandas on June 30, 2015, 03:07:56 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 30, 2015, 04:35:52 am
Yep. Fo3 had a shitty ending cutscene that told you nothing about the world at large. Just a dude narrating about your final choice.And that is why I like NV. NV went, "yeah your decision was cool and all but DUDE THE WASTES MAN"
For example, if you rushed through it? You realized that THE ENTIRE WASTELAND IS FUCKED
Post by: Draignean on June 30, 2015, 08:21:21 pm
Been going over the footage a couple times. During the customization section, each weapon displays its ammo type and standard receiver. 10mm, 5.56, .38, .44, and 'cell' (With the appearance of a microfusion cell) were all confirmed. An additional ammunition type can be seen when he's going through the plasma weapony, simply named 'plasma'. Furthermore, since laser pistols are just laser rifles with grips instead of stocks, laser pistols can be confirmed to draw from MFCs instead of SECs.
It's possible that cryo weapons now use SECs, but that's pure postulation.
Also, the split second it shows the plasma sniper rifle with a pistol grip instead of a full stock is ridiculous and I want it. Also, laser weapons have mods for beta wave tuner (mesmetron?) and photon exciter (among other things), whilst plasma weapons have slots for the same beta wave tuner and a photon agitator.
Post by: Sensei on June 30, 2015, 08:31:11 pm
Post by: Sergius on June 30, 2015, 08:41:07 pm
I don't mind laser ammo being standardized. I always thought it was annoying that pistols used AA batteries and rifles used AAA batteries anyway.
AAA batteries are smaller than AA.
Post by: Putnam on June 30, 2015, 08:49:32 pm
also it looks more like energy cells are D and mf cells C
Post by: Sergius on June 30, 2015, 09:14:08 pm
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Energy_cell_%28Fallout:_New_Vegas%29 (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Energy_cell_%28Fallout:_New_Vegas%29)
Microfusion looks like a single C size or something.
Post by: Iceblaster on June 30, 2015, 09:45:30 pm
Post by: notquitethere on June 30, 2015, 09:51:21 pm
Post by: Andres on June 30, 2015, 11:26:47 pm
I don't mind the change myself. It makes using laser weapons much easier, IMO. Not having to juggle six different ammo types and all :P2HARDCORE4U
Post by: Iceblaster on June 30, 2015, 11:41:04 pm
THOUGH THAT DOES MAKE ME WONDER... If it's gonna have built in mod support and having a cross system modding system(i understood that right? may be going off old information) will the GECK still be around for PC people and how complex will the tools be?
I've not kept up to date, so feel free to yell at me :P
Post by: Putnam on June 30, 2015, 11:48:43 pm
Post by: Krevsin on July 01, 2015, 02:33:51 am
Post by: Aseaheru on July 01, 2015, 02:49:43 am
Post by: Flying Dice on July 01, 2015, 02:52:00 am
If you're hoping for a game in the spirit of Fallout 1 & 2... just play Wasteland 2 already.Telling people to play Wasteland 2 is borderline criminal. If you're hoping for a game in the spirit of Wasteland, go play Fallout 1 & 2, because Wasteland 2 is a shallow, uninteresting pile of rubbish. It's not Interplay back from the grave, just a shitty zombie wearing its skin. Hell, if you want a game in the spirit of FO or FO2, play New Vegas, because that was closer than the pile of mediocrity Fargo & co. are charging $40 for.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on July 01, 2015, 04:00:20 am
If you're hoping for a game in the spirit of Fallout 1 & 2... just play Wasteland 2 already.Telling people to play Wasteland 2 is borderline criminal. If you're hoping for a game in the spirit of Wasteland, go play Fallout 1 & 2, because Wasteland 2 is a shallow, uninteresting pile of rubbish. It's not Interplay back from the grave, just a shitty zombie wearing its skin. Hell, if you want a game in the spirit of FO or FO2, play New Vegas, because that was closer than the pile of mediocrity Fargo & co. are charging $40 for.
Is it really that bad? Because it has been on my wishlist for a while now.
Post by: notquitethere on July 01, 2015, 04:27:11 am
I wouldn't say it's a 'borderline crimimal' recommendation. The game has had a lot of content-filled patches since its first release.If you're hoping for a game in the spirit of Fallout 1 & 2... just play Wasteland 2 already.Telling people to play Wasteland 2 is borderline criminal. If you're hoping for a game in the spirit of Wasteland, go play Fallout 1 & 2, because Wasteland 2 is a shallow, uninteresting pile of rubbish. It's not Interplay back from the grave, just a shitty zombie wearing its skin. Hell, if you want a game in the spirit of FO or FO2, play New Vegas, because that was closer than the pile of mediocrity Fargo & co. are charging $40 for.
Is it really that bad? Because it has been on my wishlist for a while now.
Pros:
- There's a genuinely broad range of ways of resolving any area, both mechanically and story-wise
- There's oodles of unique NPC followers who each have hundreds of lines of contextually appropriate things to say as you're wandering around. For me, this was one of the more impressive things.
- Tactical combat is turn based and allows for quite different techniques.
- There are a lot of settled areas in the game each with a unique feel.
- The final ending was impacted by all the choices you made in the first half of the game.
Cons:
- The character models are ugly (they've made some changes since I last played so maybe it's improved?)
- The second-half of the game felt comparatively under-implemented
- You have so many party members it's relatively easy to cover ever skill area in the game (lessening the impact of long-term tactical skill choices etc). Might be the new perk system mixes this up.
- The story/lore/setting isn't as richly-woven and the theme/tone not as consistent as Fallout. Though it's about as wacky/ridiculous in its factions as, say, New Vegas.
Post by: Majestic7 on July 01, 2015, 04:27:28 am
Of course, in my opinion Fallout 3 was shit because of bad writing, while Fallout NV was excellent. So if your opinion on these varies a lot, then maybe you'd think different about Wasteland 2 as well.
Post by: notquitethere on July 01, 2015, 04:39:35 am
Post by: Majestic7 on July 01, 2015, 04:47:07 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 01, 2015, 06:56:41 am
I couldn't agree more. I tried to like it, I really did, but it's just awful.If you're hoping for a game in the spirit of Fallout 1 & 2... just play Wasteland 2 already.Telling people to play Wasteland 2 is borderline criminal. If you're hoping for a game in the spirit of Wasteland, go play Fallout 1 & 2, because Wasteland 2 is a shallow, uninteresting pile of rubbish. It's not Interplay back from the grave, just a shitty zombie wearing its skin. Hell, if you want a game in the spirit of FO or FO2, play New Vegas, because that was closer than the pile of mediocrity Fargo & co. are charging $40 for.
Post by: TempAcc on July 01, 2015, 07:55:19 am
ah, comeon. The Lewis gun was used up into the 50s.
:v well, the problem isn't how dated the weapon is, its more that its really not an assault rifle :P
Its pretty common for rather old firearms to stay in service for many years after their creation anyway, with just a few improvements over the decades. A good example of this is the Browning Automatic Rifle, created in 1918 and being used by US troops till the mid 70s, being used in WW1, WW2 and Vietnam.
Post by: Iceblaster on July 01, 2015, 11:11:43 am
...the GECK is built-in modding support and Fallout 4 runs on Creation Engine, so obviously that's going to be about the same.
I knew that(at least for FO3 and NV :P), I just assumed Bethesda was going to be making a new thing so that both console and PC users can dick about with it.
Apologies.
Post by: UXLZ on July 02, 2015, 01:31:23 am
Post by: Krevsin on July 02, 2015, 01:47:30 am
Also, kotaku article (http://kotaku.com/how-fallout-4-mods-will-work-on-console-1711829641) about how mods will work on consoles.
Post by: Flying Dice on July 02, 2015, 01:56:23 am
Besides, everyone knows that console plebs aren't real people and will fork out the dough for anything Bethesda pours into their trough. :P
Post by: Krevsin on July 02, 2015, 02:01:22 am
Did you not read the article you linked? "No plans" is doubletalk for "we're keeping that in our hand until the time is right."Oh, I did read the article, I just thought it was funny is all :P
Maybe I should've put it into mockquotes.
Post by: Flying Dice on July 02, 2015, 02:03:57 am
Post by: Egan_BW on July 02, 2015, 02:05:31 am
Post by: Krevsin on July 02, 2015, 02:08:08 am
Post by: Bohandas on July 02, 2015, 02:11:10 am
I especially like the part when he says that porting mods from PC to the consoles should be relatively easy. Well, of course it will be, current console gen is basically underpowered gaming PCs. :P
...with deficient interfaces.
I hope they expand the number of possible item hotkets in this installment. Unlike a gaming controller, my computer has no shortage of buttons
Post by: Flying Dice on July 02, 2015, 03:42:34 am
Make your entire numpad bound to different sorts of healing and buffing items. When something goes wrong, slam your fist down on the panic button.Note: Not responsible for damages incurred by punching your keyboard.I especially like the part when he says that porting mods from PC to the consoles should be relatively easy. Well, of course it will be, current console gen is basically underpowered gaming PCs. :P
...with deficient interfaces.
I hope they expand the number of possible item hotkets in this installment. Unlike a gaming controller, my computer has no shortage of buttons
Post by: miauw62 on July 02, 2015, 04:07:05 am
Post by: Chiefwaffles on July 02, 2015, 04:51:42 am
Post by: kaenneth on July 02, 2015, 10:55:08 am
I bet they're not even going to ask permission to port mods and that it's going to result in drama.
The permission will be in the EULAs of the game, editing tools, and online services.
Post by: Majestic7 on July 03, 2015, 01:22:12 am
Post by: scriver on July 03, 2015, 01:27:38 am
[me] quickly ducks below the point[/me]
Post by: Bohandas on July 03, 2015, 04:49:34 pm
Use a third-party editorI bet they're not even going to ask permission to port mods and that it's going to result in drama.
The permission will be in the EULAs of the game, editing tools, and online services.
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 03, 2015, 06:38:58 pm
ah, comeon. The Lewis gun was used up into the 50s.
:v well, the problem isn't how dated the weapon is, its more that its really not an assault rifle :P
Its pretty common for rather old firearms to stay in service for many years after their creation anyway, with just a few improvements over the decades. A good example of this is the Browning Automatic Rifle, created in 1918 and being used by US troops till the mid 70s, being used in WW1, WW2 and Vietnam.
Oh hey, other people are talking about this! Started a thread elsewhere trying to figure out what reasoning they could have for sporting an air-cooled barrel like that.
And being outdated kind of is a big problem- Fallout didn't start up in the 50s. It started in 2077. So in order for them to have 1910s weapons tech laying around, neither World War could have taken place, nor a big arms race like the cold war, or any other major progress for a very, very long time. Maybe if the great depression stretched for a century, and affected the entire world, but even then.......
And meanwhile, they've got M16s & miniguns laying around.
I'm pretty sure they just threw it in there for diversity without thinking about the ramifications.
Post by: Putnam on July 03, 2015, 06:40:33 pm
I'm pretty sure they just threw it in there for diversity without thinking about the ramifications.
(http://static-1.nexusmods.com/15/mods/110/images/20020-1-1341598064.jpg)
Post by: Draignean on July 03, 2015, 07:15:18 pm
I could complain about the fact that pulse lasers should blind everyone in the immediate area when fired at a slightly reflective surface, but that doesn't change the fact that they're a wonderful bit of fun when I suspend disbelief.
Post by: Sergius on July 03, 2015, 09:06:03 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on July 03, 2015, 09:20:39 pm
Post by: Aseaheru on July 03, 2015, 09:22:47 pm
Post by: Sergius on July 03, 2015, 10:06:00 pm
EDIT: I'm hoping we'll get a slower weapon progression like in the old Fallouts. Since F3 we've had laser pistols and stuff since the beginning by punching some random guy in the face, and they weakened them a lot so they would be on par with conventional guns. Same thing they did with power armor, actually.
Post by: ShinQuickMan on July 03, 2015, 10:26:07 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on July 03, 2015, 11:11:53 pm
That and probably don't need cells, maybe ammo is scarce at that point. Unless they need cells. Which would be dumb.
Maybe you need a fusion battery to make them, and they have (technically) infinite ammo but take a longish time to cool down after firing.
Post by: Sergius on July 03, 2015, 11:14:13 pm
That and probably don't need cells, maybe ammo is scarce at that point. Unless they need cells. Which would be dumb.
Maybe you need a fusion battery to make them, and they have (technically) infinite ammo but take a longish time to cool down after firing.
From the gameplay video they seem to be muscle powered.
Post by: Lukewarm on July 03, 2015, 11:21:27 pm
Post by: Aseaheru on July 04, 2015, 12:09:59 am
Which probably means there is some really, really good gearing in that thing or that the guns use next to no charge.
Post by: Flying Dice on July 04, 2015, 12:10:27 am
That and probably don't need cells, maybe ammo is scarce at that point. Unless they need cells. Which would be dumb.
Maybe you need a fusion battery to make them, and they have (technically) infinite ammo but take a longish time to cool down after firing.
From the gameplay video they seem to be muscle powered.
Ah, like a hand-crank capacitor? That'd be cool as well. Better yet, with the interchangeable parts, both!
Post by: Yoink on July 04, 2015, 02:24:22 am
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 04, 2015, 02:57:41 am
Well, you got laser muskets or whatever. Maybe people started raiding museums to get any weapon they can?Nah.
Best possible explanation is someone found an ancient gun-manufacturing factory that'd been preserved by historians & which somehow survived the great war.
Suddenly perfectly-serviceable, recently-manufactured lewis guns flood the market.
Still a garbage explanation.
But again, with bethesda's track record,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Krevsin on July 04, 2015, 03:20:47 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Edit: found a better picture.
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 04, 2015, 04:52:44 am
Post by: SealyStar on July 04, 2015, 08:03:34 am
I remember using the riot shotgun in New Vegas for a long time without thinking "something is off about this" and then it hit me.Well, you got laser muskets or whatever. Maybe people started raiding museums to get any weapon they can?Nah.
Best possible explanation is someone found an ancient gun-manufacturing factory that'd been preserved by historians & which somehow survived the great war.
Suddenly perfectly-serviceable, recently-manufactured lewis guns flood the market.
Still a garbage explanation.
But again, with bethesda's track record,Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 04, 2015, 02:50:43 pm
Actually I thought that one looked ok. Sure the forward grip is oversized, looking like a tube mag+pump, and the lack of a stock would be a pain, but it isn't like the combat shotty from 3 whose drum-mag doesn't line up with the ejection port. Among other things.
Post by: SealyStar on July 04, 2015, 04:17:57 pm
The riot shotgun?The problem is that the magazine is way forward by the muzzle, instead of back by the actual chamber of the gun.
Actually I thought that one looked ok. Sure the forward grip is oversized, looking like a tube mag+pump, and the lack of a stock would be a pain, but it isn't like the combat shotty from 3 whose drum-mag doesn't line up with the ejection port. Among other things.
Post by: Sensei on July 04, 2015, 04:45:04 pm
Maybe it's some ZANY combination of both a drum and tube magazine?The riot shotgun?The problem is that the magazine is way forward by the muzzle, instead of back by the actual chamber of the gun.
Actually I thought that one looked ok. Sure the forward grip is oversized, looking like a tube mag+pump, and the lack of a stock would be a pain, but it isn't like the combat shotty from 3 whose drum-mag doesn't line up with the ejection port. Among other things.
Post by: Aseaheru on July 04, 2015, 05:10:54 pm
That or the action is really, really odd.
Post by: Rakonas on July 04, 2015, 05:43:01 pm
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 04, 2015, 06:34:29 pm
Nono, that's the combat shotgun from 3, the pic in the post.The riot shotgun?The problem is that the magazine is way forward by the muzzle, instead of back by the actual chamber of the gun.
Actually I thought that one looked ok. Sure the forward grip is oversized, looking like a tube mag+pump, and the lack of a stock would be a pain, but it isn't like the combat shotty from 3 whose drum-mag doesn't line up with the ejection port. Among other things.
Spoiler: This is the 'Riot Shotgun' from New Vegas. (click to show/hide)
Do we know anything about how they're doing armor this time around? I liked the way DT worked but I always preferred to lower the minimum %. It's nice when a bb gun actually doesn't hurt you in any feasible way when you're wearing power armor.We've only seen DR, not DT. And it was on the power armor. You can see it in the stats if you watch closely when they're in the garage showing the modular pieces.
Post by: Flying Dice on July 04, 2015, 07:18:58 pm
Post by: Sergius on July 04, 2015, 07:26:33 pm
Eh, the Combat Shotgun never twigged me too much, since there are drum-fed Mossbergs and such out there that have a similar (if slightly less separated) arrangement of drum and chamber. Honestly, the Riot Shotgun looks stranger to me, since it looks like some artist decided to tack on an immobile slide in place of a foregrip because it looked "cool".
You mean like this:
(http://www.libriscrowe.com/non/Images/sidewinder%20drum-fed%20shotgun.jpeg)
My thought is the artist didn't know what an automatic shotgun was like so he used this (pump-action) as inspiration.
Post by: Flying Dice on July 04, 2015, 07:37:37 pm
Post by: Sergius on July 04, 2015, 08:18:56 pm
But I've had people complain to me that, for example, Alone in the Dark got it wrong because the rifle was actually a shotgun because of the pump-action.
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 04, 2015, 08:41:32 pm
Yeah, pretty much. I mean, it's not terribly SOD breaking anyway, given that it's Fallout. Besides, it's pretty hard to invent fictional, mechanically nonfunctional shotguns look silly when the Pancor Jackhammer is a real thing that actually existed.Eugh, I remember thinking it (the combat shotgun) looked perfectly fine when I only knew the basics of firearms & didn't really care about them. But now it's just..forget that it flat-out wouldn't work without hocus pokus, putting the mag forward like that-- you're forcing the wielder to hold 5 lbs of ammo & steel out on a stick at arm's length. It'd be cumbersome to wield, slow, and tiring. Whyyy.
Pancor's just a bullpup revolver shotgun, looks about as outlandish as an m16 or FAMAS. Less so than an aug.
I guess this is what it'd feel like to be a laser nerd, (my condolences draignean, we must do horrible things to that tech).
Post by: Flying Dice on July 04, 2015, 08:59:33 pm
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 05, 2015, 08:07:57 pm
Or where the binoculars are stereotypical and wrong movie-binoculars that show side-by-side circles.
Welp, I guess that goes on the list of things I can't unsee.
Post by: Flying Dice on July 05, 2015, 09:05:34 pm
Or where the binoculars are stereotypical and wrong movie-binoculars that show side-by-side circles.
Welp, I guess that goes on the list of things I can't unsee.
Thankfully there are several mods that fix it.
Post by: UXLZ on July 06, 2015, 10:02:21 am
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 06, 2015, 10:10:08 am
Also, wrong thread mate. NV (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=57434.1725)
Post by: AoshimaMichio on July 06, 2015, 10:47:46 am
Speaking of mods, F:NV supposedly has a plugin limit of 145, after which point the game becomes unstable/stops working. Will F4 have that same restriction given that they're running on the same engine? (Pretty sure they are, at least.)
Well, it's not the same engine. F4 is modified engine used by Skyrim, which is based on engine used by Fallout 3, which is basically the engine F:NV used. Those engines have always had hard limit of 255 mods (including base game, dlcs and save game). Theoretically F4 should have same limit, but we can't know before they release the game and hardcore modders check how it works.
Post by: Bohandas on July 07, 2015, 03:59:23 am
Post by: Yoink on July 07, 2015, 04:20:45 am
Wait, no... that'd be horrible. I already live in a scorched wasteland full of sunburnt yobbos, that would just make the game hit too close to home. :P
Post by: notquitethere on July 07, 2015, 04:26:37 am
Adversary British group in Boston could be something Redcoat inspired, come to take the colonies back into the fold? Bit hackneyed.
Close to the Canada border in New England: what would a Canadian faction look like?
Post by: Yoink on July 07, 2015, 04:36:00 am
I preferred groups like the Khans (or, for that matter, the Brotherhood and the NCR) which weren't outright villains but in clear conflict with others. Legion is just cartoon evil. Enclave was understandable but unsympathetic....Cold?
Adversary British group in Boston could be something Redcoat inspired, come to take the colonies back into the fold? Bit hackneyed.
Close to the Canada border in New England: what would a Canadian faction look like?
Post by: Andres on July 07, 2015, 05:10:10 am
Post by: Aseaheru on July 07, 2015, 05:44:59 am
Post by: UXLZ on July 07, 2015, 05:48:12 am
Post by: scriver on July 07, 2015, 05:52:42 am
I preferred groups like the Khans (or, for that matter, the Brotherhood and the NCR) which weren't outright villains but in clear conflict with others. Legion is just cartoon evil. Enclave was understandable but unsympathetic.
Those must've been some fucked up cartoons you watched. To me, the Enclave is much more cartoon evil than the Legion.
Quote
Adversary British group in Boston could be something Redcoat inspired, come to take the colonies back into the fold? Bit hackneyed./quote]
I'd prefer it if any potential such group was not actually from Britain (or spoke in British English, for that matter). Any group crossing the Atlantic would make very little sense. Be they Irish pub owners or genocidal apartment tower inhabitants.
Post by: miauw62 on July 07, 2015, 05:56:43 am
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 07, 2015, 06:16:48 am
Those must've been some fucked up cartoons you watched. To me, the Enclave is much more cartoon evil than the Legion.Enclave is hitler.
Legion is ISIS.
Post by: notquitethere on July 07, 2015, 06:24:29 am
Do we know anything about what happened to Yurop, anyway?Nothing much mentioned but I think it was just roped into the war with everyone else. I'd definitely play a Fallout set in England.
Those must've been some fucked up cartoons you watched. To me, the Enclave is much more cartoon evil than the Legion.The Legion were just a little bit too over-the-top evil. The roman empire thing was a bit too gimmicky.
I'd prefer it if any potential such group was not actually from Britain (or spoke in British English, for that matter). Any group crossing the Atlantic would make very little sense. Be they Irish pub owners or genocidal apartment tower inhabitants.You could conceivable have a group who've flew over on some repaired pre-war plane but then they need you help to get the parts and fuel to fix their ride home, but there'd be a faction that could really use the plane parts (maybe to fix their air-filtration system or somesuch) and maybe a 3rd group that would pay handsomely for the parts so you have to decide who to side with. This multi-faction rpg stuff writes itself.
Wait, dident the US annex Canada during those big-ole wars that caused the nukes?Yeah it was occupied. I want to see a secret society of mutant-moose riding mounties who are seeking to reclaim back the motherland. Their flag could be a silhouetted red moosehead on a white band in between two red bands.
Post by: miauw62 on July 07, 2015, 06:41:47 am
Post by: Krevsin on July 07, 2015, 06:55:44 am
Also didn't Yurop basically turn into one gigantic Balkans with everyone fighting everyone waaay before the war of 2077?
Post by: Aseaheru on July 07, 2015, 07:06:09 am
Post by: Yoink on July 07, 2015, 07:12:01 am
Perhaps the main character is employed by some shadowy group or other to track down a piece of long-forgotten tech abandoned in the ruins of an old facility in the middle of 'Yurop', complete with traps guarding its secrets even if you manage to make it past the warring factions in the surrounding regions...?
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 07, 2015, 07:20:25 am
Wander the wastes apologizing for murdering bandits.
(I'm sorry)
Post by: Krevsin on July 07, 2015, 07:33:30 am
Sounds like it would make a really cool expansion, but I really doubt it would get made into a central Fallout game.Yeah, it certainly would make for an interesting DLC campaign.
Perhaps the main character is employed by some shadowy group or other to track down a piece of long-forgotten tech abandoned in the ruins of an old facility in the middle of 'Yurop', complete with traps guarding its secrets even if you manage to make it past the warring factions in the surrounding regions...?
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 07, 2015, 08:05:30 am
That reminds me, that one Khan scout with the New Zealand accent was one of my favourite characters in New Vegas, simply because her voice was both familiar and a refreshing change from all the 'Muricans. It's funny how a character with such a small role can stick in the mind simply because of their voice.The idea of a psychopathic Canadian Faction amuses the shit out of me.I preferred groups like the Khans (or, for that matter, the Brotherhood and the NCR) which weren't outright villains but in clear conflict with others. Legion is just cartoon evil. Enclave was understandable but unsympathetic....Cold?
Adversary British group in Boston could be something Redcoat inspired, come to take the colonies back into the fold? Bit hackneyed.
Close to the Canada border in New England: what would a Canadian faction look like?
Falloot: MontrealTrust me, Montreal is probably the least Canadian city.
Wander the wastes apologizing for murdering bandits.
(I'm sorry)
Post by: umiman on July 07, 2015, 10:09:24 am
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on July 07, 2015, 10:12:54 am
Post by: Guardian G.I. on July 07, 2015, 10:20:42 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 07, 2015, 10:23:55 am
I actually enjoy the idea of a more serious fallout, less cartoony 50s fallout.I'd be okay with a more serious/gritty themed fallout but the 50's camp is kind of part of the setting at this point.
Post by: Teneb on July 07, 2015, 10:26:13 am
They could go with a pretty radically different atmosphere if they set a game in Europe, since we've seen basically no communication between the two continents for a long time.I think the reason that they stick to the US is because the all studios that made Fallout are from there. In fact, the games tend to cover areas where the studio in question is located, or in the general vicinity.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 07, 2015, 10:31:44 am
Post by: scriver on July 07, 2015, 10:36:09 am
I actually enjoy the idea of a more serious fallout, less cartoony 50s fallout.
Yes, I too enjoy post-apocalyptic sci-fi that is not Fallout. But not in my Fallout :P
Post by: Krevsin on July 07, 2015, 10:44:01 am
I actually enjoy the idea of a more serious fallout, less cartoony 50s fallout.If you make fallout more gritty and serious and remove the wacky 50s aesthetic you get Wasteland 2 which is a game with absolutely no visual personality of its own.
And of course the usual caveat of "wacky aesthetic =/= incapable of serious" applies. Just because something has a wacky aesthetic does not mean you can't use it to create a serious, gritty atmosphere.
I think it's definitely more the aesthetic. US popular culture and society in general had a very distinct image in the 50s, unlike the rest of the world.They could go with a pretty radically different atmosphere if they set a game in Europe, since we've seen basically no communication between the two continents for a long time.I think the reason that they stick to the US is because the all studios that made Fallout are from there. In fact, the games tend to cover areas where the studio in question is located, or in the general vicinity.
Post by: Flying Dice on July 07, 2015, 11:30:01 am
Post by: UXLZ on July 07, 2015, 11:33:19 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 07, 2015, 11:40:24 am
Why do you think fallout is filled with tiny 'cities' and loading screens? (Aside from console-itis I mean)
Post by: Bohandas on July 07, 2015, 11:50:30 am
I'd like to see a Fallout game that *doesn't* feature a shitty brown and orange (or green dirt) wasteland. I'd like to see something like Kashykk, or the first area of Witcher 2. Green and vibrant, full of plant-life, but really fucking dangerous.
There were a couple of areas like that in FNV (the one vault with the plant experiments and the area in Big MT with the similar experiments)
Post by: UXLZ on July 07, 2015, 12:19:23 pm
but foliage is really fucking expensive graphically speaking, while wasteland is cheap. Detailed urban areas are also expensive.
Why do you think fallout is filled with tiny 'cities' and loading screens? (Aside from console-itis I mean)
Witcher 3 managed it (an actual proper city, consisting of more than 16 buildings I mean.) I maintain that it's just because Beth are shitty devs. That or whatever engine they use is good for mods but bad for games.
Yeah, I think it's just the engine.
True though, I'll admit that what I want probably is more suited to an original IP than a Fallout game.
Post by: notquitethere on July 07, 2015, 12:24:11 pm
If you make fallout more gritty and serious and remove the wacky 50s aesthetic you get Wasteland 2 which is a game with absolutely no visual personality of its own.Wasteland has loads of zany elements, it just doesn't have much of a strong aesthetic beyond 'Post-Apocalyptic Desert Rangers'. One Mad Max-ish Wasteland America is much like another.
I'd definitely be interested in a more verdant post-apocalyptic environment. Endless forest with the hulking ruins of skyscapers peeking out.
Oh, and here's a Fallout History Lesson (http://imgur.com/gallery/YNhbP) for those who are interested.
Post by: Krevsin on July 07, 2015, 12:27:10 pm
Yes, but a lot of them aren't really present until about a dozen hours in. And even then most of those zany elements are conveyed to you through text rather than the game's own environment.If you make fallout more gritty and serious and remove the wacky 50s aesthetic you get Wasteland 2 which is a game with absolutely no visual personality of its own.Wasteland has loads of zany elements, it just doesn't have much of a strong aesthetic beyond 'Post-Apocalyptic Desert Rangers'. One Mad Max-ish Wasteland America is much like another.
It doesn't start getting visually interesting until the second half of the game IMO.
Post by: scriver on July 07, 2015, 12:34:01 pm
but foliage is really fucking expensive graphically speaking, while wasteland is cheap. Detailed urban areas are also expensive.
Why do you think fallout is filled with tiny 'cities' and loading screens? (Aside from console-itis I mean)
Witcher 3 managed it (an actual proper city, consisting of more than 16 buildings I mean.) I maintain that it's just because Beth are shitty devs. That or whatever engine they use is good for mods but bad for games.
Yeah, I think it's just the engine.
It's the engine, but it has nothing to do with it being good for mods, it's just that NPCs (and creatures) take up loads and loads of memory. That they keep trying to make every single unimportant NPC more detailed is just exasperating the problem.
Wasteland has loads of zany elements, it just doesn't have much of a strong aesthetic beyond 'Post-Apocalyptic Desert Rangers'. One Mad Max-ish Wasteland America is much like another.
I didn't want to say anything as I haven't played Wasteland 2 and don't really know how it is, but the original Wasteland was much, much wackier than any of the Fallouts. So if the sequel was anything like it's inspiration... Yeah.
I'd definitely be interested in a more verdant post-apocalyptic environment. Endless forest with the hulking ruins of skyscapers peeking out.
Me too. One of the coolest thing about the STALKER games is the "reclaimed nature" look of some of the environments. One hundred years and the environment would look great.
Post by: Bohandas on July 07, 2015, 12:36:11 pm
Those must've been some fucked up cartoons you watched. To me, the Enclave is much more cartoon evil than the Legion.The Legion were just a little bit too over-the-top evil. The roman empire thing was a bit too gimmicky.
In-world though the Enclave is theoretically equally ridiculous and gimmicky, given that the United States has been defunct for 200 years as of the beginning of Fallout 3. They are, however, still less evil than the Legion.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 07, 2015, 12:43:42 pm
I'd definitely be interested in a more verdant post-apocalyptic environment. Endless forest with the hulking ruins of skyscapers peeking out.
Oh, and here's a Fallout History Lesson (http://imgur.com/gallery/YNhbP) for those who are interested.
Enslaved: Odyssey to the West, while an average game, had some really nice overgrown, ruined cities.
Post by: UXLZ on July 07, 2015, 12:52:40 pm
Quote from: scriver
It's the engine, but it has nothing to do with it being good for mods, it's just that NPCs (and creatures) take up loads and loads of memory. That they keep trying to make every single unimportant NPC more detailed is just exasperating the problem.
I see, but the NPCs still look like crap without modding them anyway. >_>
Post by: scriver on July 07, 2015, 02:34:47 pm
Those must've been some fucked up cartoons you watched. To me, the Enclave is much more cartoon evil than the Legion.The Legion were just a little bit too over-the-top evil. The roman empire thing was a bit too gimmicky.
In-world though the Enclave is theoretically equally ridiculous and gimmicky, given that the United States has been defunct for 200 years as of the beginning of Fallout 3. They are, however, still less evil than the Legion.
I wasn't saying they're less evil, but they are less cartoonishly evil.
Post by: Virtz on July 07, 2015, 02:55:48 pm
Not really. At least the Legion (and the Master) wanted to unite everyone under their banner. Like surrender was an option with them (although not a great one if female, in the case of the Legion). The Enclave is just "CLEANSE PURGE KILL" nazis who want to wipe out everyone who isn't them, which is the majority of Earth's remaining population, including most of the former USA. Like which one do you think had the more realistic goal in mind? The ones who wanted to wipe everything out or the ones who wanted to conquer everything?
Those must've been some fucked up cartoons you watched. To me, the Enclave is much more cartoon evil than the Legion.The Legion were just a little bit too over-the-top evil. The roman empire thing was a bit too gimmicky.
In-world though the Enclave is theoretically equally ridiculous and gimmicky, given that the United States has been defunct for 200 years as of the beginning of Fallout 3. They are, however, still less evil than the Legion.
I wasn't saying they're less evil, but they are less cartoonishly evil.
Post by: scriver on July 07, 2015, 03:01:58 pm
Post by: Teneb on July 07, 2015, 03:36:20 pm
It's not about "realistic goal". The Legion is a group of evil bastards who is consistently depicted as raping, killing,torturing, and genociding nearly everyone they come across. It's hardly an villain fit for a children's cartoon.Hasn't it been established in this thread (or the NV one, don't remember) already that the Legion is pretty in-line with what some ancient cultures (though only a little of what they do, like decimation, was done by the romans) did?
The Legion is not so much cartoonish as shallow due to having most of their content axed because of an idiotic deadline. If Obsidian could've taken as much time as they wanted with NV, they'd probably be more fleshed out. Still horrifyingly brutal, but not being cardboard cutouts.
Post by: Virtz on July 07, 2015, 03:38:28 pm
Also, you're comparing them to a faction that does some real cartoony shit in FO3. They kill your dad right in front of you! And they have a giant underground base. Which they escape in helicopters as it self-destructs like fucking Doctor Robotnik. And they've got president Malcolm McDowell! The go-to actor for evil guys. Even in FO2 they had a giant mutant guy who existed only to kill civilians in front of you in a random cutscene. And their end-goal in both games was an attempt at one-upping Nazis in stupidity. Like this is the real cartoony mad scientist bullshit.
Post by: SealyStar on July 07, 2015, 03:49:34 pm
It's not about "realistic goal". The Legion is a group of evil bastards who is consistently depicted as raping, killing,torturing, and genociding nearly everyone they come across. It's hardly an villain fit for a children's cartoon.The phrases "cartoon villain" and "cartoonishly evil" generally aren't used to suggest that the villain's actions are cartoonish - in fact, most villains described as such do things like raping, killing, torturing, and genociding. Instead, they're meant as criticisms of the writing quality, namely the villain's motivations.
A "cartoon villain" is evil not because evil actions benefit the villain in some way, or because they're seriously unapologetic psychopaths or sadists, but simply because they're The Villain and they have to do Villainous Things.
Post by: BFEL on July 07, 2015, 03:51:22 pm
Meanwhile the Enclave never pretended to not be Skeletor, they fully embraced it the whole way while laughing maniacally. And that kinda goes past most peoples radars because Refuge In Audacity and all that.
Basically the Legion's baby roflstomping feels...wrong, while the Enclave's is like watching a cartoon, its so detached from reality its hard to take its evil seriously.
Post by: Wimopy on July 07, 2015, 04:03:57 pm
Anyways, here's a hope for FO4: NPCs recognizing that they shouldn't badmouth the guy in front of them. The Trouble on the Homefront quest in full power armour and an LMG had me wanting to just blow up the damn place, but I didn't, simply because of my respect for Amata. And my character is "very good".
Back to topic: any info whether there might be such a system? Skyrim's guards weren't exactly nice to the Thane all the time, but a mod fixed that, so maybe it'll be in this time?
Post by: Sergius on July 07, 2015, 04:05:12 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 07, 2015, 04:40:01 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 07, 2015, 04:45:09 pm
Not exactly super-important news, but it seems the freakin' casual Shelter game is coming out for android in about a month.Cool. I'll play it. My wife seems to like it.
Post by: Flying Dice on July 07, 2015, 04:47:54 pm
I just realised how similar The Pitt's endng choice is to the NCR vs Legion one (if you disregard the other options). Temporary slavery then proper civilisation or a head on approach to civilisation, which may just fall apart.
The problem with both being that the former option's faction is held together by a single personality who at best claims to be moving in that direction, and even if they're not lying it's not something that'll happen in their lifetime, which effectively means it won't happen at all.
Post by: Yoink on July 07, 2015, 05:07:44 pm
The idea of a Canadian Faction amuses the shit out of me.Removed a redundancy. :P
Re: overgrown apocalyptic ruins, TLoU had some very beautiful scenery that fit that description.
Of course, all you PC plebs missed out on it. Alas.
Post by: Aseaheru on July 07, 2015, 05:21:42 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 07, 2015, 05:35:05 pm
Thought it was ported over.From PS3 to PS4, AFAIK.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 07, 2015, 05:43:22 pm
"plebs"The idea of a Canadian Faction amuses the shit out of me.Removed a redundancy. :P
Re: overgrown apocalyptic ruins, TLoU had some very beautiful scenery that fit that description.
Of course, all you PC plebs missed out on it. Alas.
hahahahHhahahhahaahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH not gonna start that argument here
Post by: SealyStar on July 07, 2015, 05:54:58 pm
Muh exclusives!"plebs"The idea of a Canadian Faction amuses the shit out of me.Removed a redundancy. :P
Re: overgrown apocalyptic ruins, TLoU had some very beautiful scenery that fit that description.
Of course, all you PC plebs missed out on it. Alas.
hahahahHhahahhahaahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH not gonna start that argument here
Post by: Putnam on July 07, 2015, 05:58:59 pm
is it
over 9000????
Post by: Chiefwaffles on July 07, 2015, 06:10:42 pm
EDIT: And by joking I mean the "pleb" part.
Post by: Yoink on July 07, 2015, 06:14:53 pm
I was just naming a game which had a post-apocalyptic setting like what was described.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 07, 2015, 06:18:26 pm
Post by: Teneb on July 07, 2015, 06:20:54 pm
Post by: notquitethere on July 07, 2015, 06:21:08 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 07, 2015, 07:09:32 pm
Post by: Sergius on July 07, 2015, 08:28:06 pm
Post by: Krevsin on July 08, 2015, 12:11:28 am
Eh, while brutality was a big thing in place for keeping the soldiers in the roman army in line, the people they conquered were actually allowed a great degree of freedom as long as they paid their taxes.It's not about "realistic goal". The Legion is a group of evil bastards who is consistently depicted as raping, killing,torturing, and genociding nearly everyone they come across. It's hardly an villain fit for a children's cartoon.Hasn't it been established in this thread (or the NV one, don't remember) already that the Legion is pretty in-line with what some ancient cultures (though only a little of what they do, like decimation, was done by the romans) did?
Post by: UXLZ on July 08, 2015, 12:21:21 am
I kinda liked Last Of Us. Controls were a tad wonky but the story and setting were fucking wonderful.
Of course the controls are wonky, the only shooter on consoles that doesn't have wonky controls is...
...
Drawing a blank here. Oh well.
I don't get why people are excited over the mobile game, it sounds kinda boring.
Hopefully FO4 won't end up like Skyrim, overhyped, oversimplified (though I think we all already know this one's gonna happen) and sadly, quite a boring storyline.
Seriously, Skyrim was such a disappointment, at least for me. It pretty much killed any faith or affection I had for Beth as devs, which wasn't really all that much to begin with (though I liked Morrowind.)
Post by: Yoink on July 08, 2015, 12:33:50 am
I don't get why people are excited over the mobile game, it sounds kinda boring.To be fair, you do seem to be negative about pretty much everything. ::)
That said, I agree with you about Skyrim. That thing sucked serious arse. I hope FO4 isn't as horribly railroad-y as Skyrim was, although it's a slim hope...
Post by: Bohandas on July 08, 2015, 12:39:30 am
Post by: Krevsin on July 08, 2015, 12:51:57 am
Given what we've seen of fallout 4's gameplay, I have high hopes in the boobplate (or the lack thereof) department, the combat looks solid, and there's no magic system.
I can't comment on the voiceacting because of how little we've seen of it (though that robot seemed good enough, the protagonist also) and stealthing will probably again be OP.
As for the story, given that this is Bethesda, I predict a story that starts off interesting and builds up a modicum of intrigue or even action but then devolves into trite cliches and plot twists and ends with a far-too-neat-and-predictable a resolution. Surprise, the Institute turns out to be the Enclave. There'll probably be some interesting sidequests tho.
Post by: Bohandas on July 08, 2015, 12:54:53 am
What killed Skyrim for me was a congregation of several things ... Third, the magic sucks ...
I think only the highest level spells really sucked significantly
Post by: Krevsin on July 08, 2015, 01:01:13 am
I mean the magic sucked on a much more basic level. Because every character can be a mage. This just kills the whole magic system for me. Magic seems underpowered and mundane even as the people around you whinge about how horrible and alien it is. Meanwhile I'm just here with my melee-oriented character flinging around spells that could cause untold devastation.What killed Skyrim for me was a congregation of several things ... Third, the magic sucks ...
I think only the highest level spells really sucked significantly
Ludonarrative Dissonance is what you might call it but I just call it bad use of magic.
Post by: UXLZ on July 08, 2015, 01:57:04 am
Post by: Flying Dice on July 08, 2015, 01:57:47 am
First, boobplate. I hate boobplate.Eh? The only vanilla armor that really jumped out at me in that regard was (somewhat amusingly) the Steel Plate set -- the one with the engravings and triangular eye slits. The rest varied from subtle (Glass) to basically unigender (normal Steel).
At any rate even the worst in that regard is better than the, ah, alternative offered by modders, which can be summarized as just plain "boobs".
Post by: Bohandas on July 08, 2015, 02:00:26 am
I mean the magic sucked on a much more basic level. Because every character can be a mage. This just kills the whole magic system for me. Magic seems underpowered and mundane even as the people around you whinge about how horrible and alien it is. Meanwhile I'm just here with my melee-oriented character flinging around spells that could cause untold devastation.What killed Skyrim for me was a congregation of several things ... Third, the magic sucks ...
I think only the highest level spells really sucked significantly
Ludonarrative Dissonance is what you might call it but I just call it bad use of magic.
They should have lampshaded it as a dragonborn thing. Your character is explicitly a larger than life figure of destiny and shit
Post by: Krevsin on July 08, 2015, 02:16:46 am
Yeah, that annoyed me as well. Regardless of what sort of character I made, I inevitably ended up with a swath of utility magic and high Sneak + Archery, even if I was trying to spend my time running around in full plate bashing things with a big chunk of metal.It still niggles at my brain because that's not how armor works dammit. It's petty complaints like these that pretty much prevent me from playing vanilla Skyrim.First, boobplate. I hate boobplate.Eh? The only vanilla armor that really jumped out at me in that regard was (somewhat amusingly) the Steel Plate set -- the one with the engravings and triangular eye slits. The rest varied from subtle (Glass) to basically unigender (normal Steel).
At any rate even the worst in that regard is better than the, ah, alternative offered by modders, which can be summarized as just plain "boobs".
Now if only there was a mod that replaced all the voiceacting in the game with people who actually gave a crap.
Post by: Flying Dice on July 08, 2015, 03:56:02 am
Post by: scriver on July 08, 2015, 05:12:37 am
Anyway, speaking of armours: Can anyone remind me whether customization was confirmed for armours that isn't power armour? I think I saw some concept art that hinted at it, but I can't remember beyond that.
Post by: Krevsin on July 08, 2015, 05:24:16 am
Post by: scriver on July 08, 2015, 05:28:39 am
Post by: BFEL on July 08, 2015, 05:47:17 am
Having to use your hand slots for magic REALLY fucked over all chances of me using it regularly. I mean I still use some of the utility stuff, I heal up after battles, but using magic in combat is absurdly clunky in Skyrim.
In Oblivion it was slash slash block "oh theres a guy at range" fireball slash block slash.
In Skyrim the same thing would go like slash....fiddle around with the "quickmenu"...block....more fiddling...fireba...oh wait it was interrupted because all fucking spells that aren't a flamethrower have to be charged like a fucking Kamehameha!
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 08, 2015, 06:03:26 am
Post by: notquitethere on July 08, 2015, 06:18:13 am
I'd like to see more peacable ways of solving problems in Fallout 4. New Vegas was pretty good for this, the main quest could be completed without killing. But the outlaws would always fight to the death still. It'd be good if enemies could concede more often (but not like in Skyrim where they just pretend to concede for about five seconds).
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 08, 2015, 06:44:37 am
I mean shit, you get the same welcome to the stormcloaks whether you're a dyed-in-the-wool Talosian nord or a sadistic altmer mage.
It only would have taken a little bit of work to fix this- the main questlines would need alternate introductions with skipped/alternate quests & different dialogue.
Not an insignificant amount of work, but not a LOT, & it would have made all the difference.
If their deadline isn't as stupid as the last one, (though it shares an unsettling number of 1's), maybe they could fix this next time.
Post by: notquitethere on July 08, 2015, 07:04:57 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 08, 2015, 07:11:16 am
I agree 100%. They should have spent the time and voice acting they spent making all those inane fetch quests and put it into individualising NPC responses to your race, factions, ranks, and actions.Right because those two resource investments are exactly equal.
Post by: notquitethere on July 08, 2015, 07:14:05 am
It's just script writing and voice-overs either way. The time they spent doing one kind they could have spent doing another.I agree 100%. They should have spent the time and voice acting they spent making all those inane fetch quests and put it into individualising NPC responses to your race, factions, ranks, and actions.Right because those two resource investments are exactly equal.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 08, 2015, 07:15:37 am
Individualizing every single NPC's responses in all of their dialogue to match whatever special snowflake combination of race, class, sex, faction, and previous actions taken is not exactly the same level of effort as voicing some basic fetch quests.It's just script writing and voice-overs either way. The time they spent doing one kind they could have spent doing another.I agree 100%. They should have spent the time and voice acting they spent making all those inane fetch quests and put it into individualising NPC responses to your race, factions, ranks, and actions.Right because those two resource investments are exactly equal.
Post by: UXLZ on July 08, 2015, 07:16:14 am
Post by: BFEL on July 08, 2015, 07:19:32 am
Another issue I had with Skyrim that I pray isn't present in FO4 is how rushed all the faction quests felt. The Companions were the worst with this, you did like, maybe 4 to 5 quests and then they let you into their inner circle. I mean, blech, it was ridiculous.Not only that, but with Companions you couldn't just putter around doing the radiant quests like in the Thieves Guild for no apparent reason.
And CoW HAD no repeatable quests that I know of.
Post by: notquitethere on July 08, 2015, 07:36:33 am
Individualizing every single NPC's responses in all of their dialogue to match whatever special snowflake combination of race, class, sex, faction, and previous actions taken is not exactly the same level of effort as voicing some basic fetch quests.I didn't mean to imply every NPC had to be individualised to that full extent. More stuff like, if you're a high rank in some other faction then maybe people won't ask you to do their chores. Or even just a wider range of greetings and more unique dialogue options depending on relevant things in your background. Actually, it's the sort of thing Fallout New Vegas was pretty good at doing: factions recognise if you've already helped them out (shortening some quest chains in the process), your alignment and factions would effect how many people treated you etc. They did a fair bit of this in Skyrim (Ulrific would give a different reaction to you joining if you were an outlander, or all the different guard reactions (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Guard_Dialogue)) and that was good, and more of that sort of thing would have led to an even richer experience. It's just a matter of development priorities.
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 08, 2015, 08:13:27 am
They did a fair bit of this in Skyrim (Ulrific would give a different reaction to you joining if you were an outlanderYou sure about that? I could have sworn they treat -everyone- as an outsider, and welcome altmer just as quickly as nords.
But nah, I wouldn't want every little side-quest & npc to change- you can't expect lowly commoners to keep up with current events. Nor do you necessarily need entire questline dialogues to be altered- just the part where they have you do chores and/or 'prove you aren't just some street-rabble after their silverware'-- The first few quests on the major faction/guild storylines.
And then just famous/infamous branches would make a big difference. If they really wanted to get fancy & had the time, they could add a prejudiced/unprejudiced axis as well, so you'd get a different reaction from -mer & men- (two categories, not special-snowflake level). That'd be 4 options at most, probably with overlap, on the major questlines.
Back in my modding days that'd take me 2-3 weeks *at most* to script if I knew what I was doing. Even with voice-acting, there's no reason they couldn't have done far more in just as much time when they have a team & are working it as a job.
Post by: UXLZ on July 08, 2015, 08:23:54 am
What I think would have been more interesting was if you were barred from joining certain guilds until you were of a certain level (either literally, or of renown.)
Either that or have the things be variable.
But you know, what this all stems from is the levelling system. Fuck that. (Not the levelling system as in the one level-up and get stronger of the PC, but the stupid scaling. Skyrim was better than Oblivion, but any amount of it is bad.)
Post by: notquitethere on July 08, 2015, 08:34:41 am
You sure about that? I could have sworn they treat -everyone- as an outsider, and welcome altmer just as quickly as nords.Checking now, there's one line of dialogue (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ulfric_Stormcloak) that changes depending on your race.
If they really wanted to get fancy & had the time, they could add a prejudiced/unprejudiced axis as well, so you'd get a different reaction from -mer & men- (two categories, not special-snowflake level). That'd be 4 options at most, probably with overlap, on the major questlines.In Morrowind they had a reputation system with inter-faction relations affecting how people initially treat you. They could incorporate that sort of thing with additional snippets to communicate the reason why someone likes or doesn't like you ("I don't break bread with the Legion", "an Altmer is always welcome at my hearth" etc.)
What I think would have been more interesting was if you were barred from joining certain guilds until you were of a certain level (either literally, or of renown.)I'd prefer more exclusivity for factions and guilds. I don't think you should be able to side with everyone and get to the top ranks in every single faction. I liked it in Morrowind how you couldn't join more than one House, and your actions in some factions would lock off progress in others (like assassinating crucial people as the Morag Tong etc.)
Either that or have the things be variable.
Post by: Draignean on July 08, 2015, 08:51:08 am
Anyway, speaking of armours: Can anyone remind me whether customization was confirmed for armours that isn't power armour? I think I saw some concept art that hinted at it, but I can't remember beyond that.Standard armor looks customizable. There's a still of when they're showing off the pip boy edition that shows (in addition to a curved ripper and a triple barreled missile launcher with added bayonet) a character equipped with light combat armor over a vault 111 suit. Some parts of the armor are listed as shaded, others as fiberglass, and I'm pretty sure I recall a third type.
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 08, 2015, 09:00:22 am
Checking now, there's one line of dialogue (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ulfric_Stormcloak) that changes depending on your race.Where is it? I only see the one in Helgen when you first choose your race.
In Morrowind they had a reputation system with inter-faction relations affecting how people initially treat you. They could incorporate that sort of thing with additional snippets to communicate the reason why someone likes or doesn't like you ("I don't break bread with the Legion", "an Altmer is always welcome at my hearth" etc.)That could actually be fit into the prejudiced/unprejudiced categories I mentioned with a simple [race] insert. It really wouldn't take much work to implement something like this.
I'd prefer more exclusivity for factions and guilds. I don't think you should be able to side with everyone and get to the top ranks in every single faction. I liked it in Morrowind how you couldn't join more than one House, and your actions in some factions would lock off progress in others (like assassinating crucial people as the Morag Tong etc.)Eh, well, so long as we're letting the player be a mary-sue with the leveling system beth put in place, (which I'm not necessarily opposed to), there's little reason to cordon off the factions that are in the game.
Could an arch-mage kick ass with the companions?
Similarly, could an assassin or non-pacifist thief be useful or even relied upon?
Is there some doctrine that a fire-breathing barbarian can't be allowed to study in the mages circle, so long as they minimize the barbarianism while on the premises?
But I think we're getting kinda side-tracked here.
Standard armor looks customizable. There's a still of when they're showing off the pip boy edition that shows (in addition to a curved ripper and a triple barreled missile launcher with added bayonet) a character equipped with light combat armor over a vault 111 suit. Some parts of the armor are listed as shaded, others as fiberglass, and I'm pretty sure I recall a third type.This all kinda looks like the kind of thing you could do with tailor-made in NV. Slots for mix & matching. If it's extended to mix & matching for individual pieces, now that would be more impressive.
Post by: Draignean on July 08, 2015, 09:06:43 am
What exactly do you mean by individual pieces?
Post by: Teneb on July 08, 2015, 09:15:02 am
Hey, NQT, don't use that wiki, use this one (http://uesp.net/wiki/Main_Page) instead (much more complete).You sure about that? I could have sworn they treat -everyone- as an outsider, and welcome altmer just as quickly as nords.Checking now, there's one line of dialogue (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ulfric_Stormcloak) that changes depending on your race.
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 08, 2015, 10:50:50 am
What exactly do you mean by individual pieces?I mean being able to customize the different pieces, not just which pieces you're wearing.
We've had that capability (mixing & matching) since NV- just not officially.
Post by: notquitethere on July 08, 2015, 11:02:17 am
Where is it? I only see the one in Helgen when you first choose your race.Huh, I coulda sworn... I guess you're right! That's rubbish.
Eh, well, so long as we're letting the player be a mary-sue with the leveling system beth put in place, (which I'm not necessarily opposed to), there's little reason to cordon off the factions that are in the game.I don't mind multi-faction entry at the lower ranks, but I think it's more interesting when higher-level quests are mutually exclusive. It's more interesting when factions have competing goals with one another.
Could an arch-mage kick ass with the companions?
Similarly, could an assassin or non-pacifist thief be useful or even relied upon?
Is there some doctrine that a fire-breathing barbarian can't be allowed to study in the mages circle, so long as they minimize the barbarianism while on the premises?
Or to put it in a more Fallout perspective: I don't think the NCR should make you a general in their army if they think you've been too pally with the Mutant Brotherhood.
Hey, NQT, don't use that wiki, use this one (http://uesp.net/wiki/Main_Page) instead (much more complete).Cheers boss.
Post by: Krevsin on July 08, 2015, 11:40:39 am
Yes, it seems like skills will be incorporated into perks which I think is a good thing because most skill-based checks in fallout games tended to happen in increments anyway.
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 08, 2015, 11:46:16 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 08, 2015, 11:49:17 am
I didn't really like how skill checks were exact. Like, 39 Medicine and not 40? Whoops, you fail the check.Oh sorry, you only have 24 speech? Sorry you can't even attempt that dialog.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 08, 2015, 11:50:28 am
Post by: Krevsin on July 08, 2015, 11:53:37 am
I didn't really like how skill checks were exact. Like, 39 Medicine and not 40? Whoops, you fail the check.That was actually a NV only thing. Fallout 3 and previous Fallout games had it percentage-based. If you were below the threshold you had a chance of succeeding.
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 08, 2015, 12:10:04 pm
(:P)
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 08, 2015, 12:12:22 pm
It was also really annoying when you pumped up speech and still failed anyway. It kinda encouraged save scumming for the best results.I didn't really like how skill checks were exact. Like, 39 Medicine and not 40? Whoops, you fail the check.That was actually a NV only thing. Fallout 3 and previous Fallout games had it percentage-based. If you were below the threshold you had a chance of succeeding.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 08, 2015, 12:15:43 pm
Or locking out computers.It was also really annoying when you pumped up speech and still failed anyway. It kinda encouraged save scumming for the best results.I didn't really like how skill checks were exact. Like, 39 Medicine and not 40? Whoops, you fail the check.That was actually a NV only thing. Fallout 3 and previous Fallout games had it percentage-based. If you were below the threshold you had a chance of succeeding.
or jamming locks closed.
So frustrating. I have a goddamn plasma rifle and 3700 metric tons of explosive ordnance why is this wooden door a barrier to my progress?
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 08, 2015, 12:17:40 pm
Spoiler: But there was not. (click to show/hide)
Post by: notquitethere on July 08, 2015, 12:21:32 pm
I didn't mind it. It meant you had more of an incentive to take performance enhancing drugs, which I've always felt was a core part of the Fallout experience.I didn't really like how skill checks were exact. Like, 39 Medicine and not 40? Whoops, you fail the check.Oh sorry, you only have 24 speech? Sorry you can't even attempt that dialog.
Unexplodable barriers are inexcusable though.
Post by: Putnam on July 08, 2015, 01:38:17 pm
Hey, NQT, don't use that wiki, use this one (http://uesp.net/wiki/Main_Page) instead (much more complete).You sure about that? I could have sworn they treat -everyone- as an outsider, and welcome altmer just as quickly as nords.Checking now, there's one line of dialogue (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ulfric_Stormcloak) that changes depending on your race.
also not founded entirely for profit purposes despite the utter redundancy of it
Post by: redwallzyl on July 09, 2015, 03:39:25 pm
Post by: Bohandas on July 09, 2015, 04:24:48 pm
Post by: Putnam on July 09, 2015, 04:27:53 pm
It's the exact same thing as the one in Fallout 2 except waterborne instead of airborne.
Post by: Andres on July 09, 2015, 05:24:59 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 09, 2015, 05:52:41 pm
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 09, 2015, 05:58:29 pm
i mean if they could get it to kill all the horrible mutants around the wasteland that would obviously be great. things like the tunnelers are apparently a huge threat that could cause vary big problems. if you had to sacrifice the still sane ghouls and super mutants i would think that a fair trade as it would definitely save sooo many people.I disagree- maybe if they were literally on the verge of extinction vs the tunnelers, sure.
But you can't just genocide the perfectly-sane supermuties & ghouls and call it a 'fair sacrifice'. Not unless you're one of them & speak for all of them.
Instead, you should go back to your labs & keep tweaking it to avoid the collateral damage.
Throwing them under the bus to save yourself, ESPECIALLY when you aren't in immediate peril, (tunnelers-wiping-out-cities kind of peril), is very morally questionable.
Post by: Putnam on July 09, 2015, 06:04:08 pm
which is everyone
Post by: NullForceOmega on July 09, 2015, 06:11:26 pm
Post by: Wimopy on July 10, 2015, 05:47:47 am
That last part is a lie, based on what others have said, but other than that it seems it even kills those who were affected simply by radiation. Which is practically any- and everyone in the Wasteland. (Dunno how the Enclave wouldn't get affected)
I'm not quite sure how you differentiate between random mutations and radiation/FEV-caused mutations though, but I guess we can leave that out as a plothole, because Modified FEV. Then again, Eden might be wrong and it'll slowly kill everyone.
Not sure if it only affects humans or animals as well. I can imagine that it kills everyone with non-standard human DNA/structure, so it would basically turn the already empty wasteland into an even more empty wasteland. That's why it's an option that I'd only choose if I was really going for a "bad karma choices only" playthrough, since even an evil character should see that this option would probably just extinct all life in the Capital Wasteland. (Since most Vaults are already opened and affected by the outside radiation, dead or abandoned.)
Post by: NullForceOmega on July 10, 2015, 05:53:12 am
Post by: Krevsin on July 10, 2015, 06:34:17 am
Post by: Virtz on July 10, 2015, 07:12:52 am
But that's Eden's plan. The rest of the enclave rebel against him. If they wanted to actually enact his plan, they would've taken the virus and put it into the purifier themselves.Nope. That was also Fallout 2 Enclave's plan. Except airborne instead of stuffing it in a purifier.
Post by: Wimopy on July 10, 2015, 07:55:20 am
He definitely doesn't want to use the Modified FEV or he wouldn't have a problem with Eden.
I don't think he even has the virus with him.
Well nevermind, this is irrelevant to FO4. Let's hope they do a bit better with the writing this time and try and adopt a more grey stance. Something like being able to serve both sides with good and bad karma choices would be nice. FONV, IIRC, had some such choices (eradicate vs help, but helping was actually preferred since it made more forces available). Something like subjugation, not just extermination or alliance, along those lines.
Post by: Teneb on July 10, 2015, 12:01:13 pm
Yeah... on that note, why do we need to stop Colonel Autumn from starting the Purifier? Sure, it's probably bad if it's in Enclave hands, but we could easily take it over if it came to that. Liberty Prime could've easily had the diagnostics and tests run on it.If you want an example made by Bethesda themselves, The Pitt was pretty damn grey. You had to choose between freeing the slaves, but destroying what could become an advanced society in the process, or help that society not only thrive, and maybe curing a dangerous mutation in the process, at the cost of continuing slavery.
He definitely doesn't want to use the Modified FEV or he wouldn't have a problem with Eden.
I don't think he even has the virus with him.
Well nevermind, this is irrelevant to FO4. Let's hope they do a bit better with the writing this time and try and adopt a more grey stance. Something like being able to serve both sides with good and bad karma choices would be nice. FONV, IIRC, had some such choices (eradicate vs help, but helping was actually preferred since it made more forces available). Something like subjugation, not just extermination or alliance, along those lines.
This proves that Bethesda actually can pull it off, just that more often than not they don't for some reason.
Post by: UXLZ on July 10, 2015, 12:55:14 pm
Post by: Krevsin on July 10, 2015, 01:18:07 pm
I can't really tell since I've never played Oblivion. But as far as the civil war conflict in Skyrim goes, it's pretty gray. 'cept for the whole "Empire was gonna execute you" thing. The rest is basically "choose between horrible racists or a stagnant inefficient empire that bans religions"
Post by: Flying Dice on July 10, 2015, 01:51:00 pm
Skyrim's civil war was pretty far from grey if you paid attention behind the scenes. The Empire's objectionable policies were almost entirely things forced on them by the elves, and despite losing the last war they were still the only thing big enough to have a shot at stopping the Thalmor plan (which can be very roughly summarized as "End the world, mer ascend, everyone else dies"). Ulfric was a self-centered asshole trying to seize power after smelling weakness, and a Stormcloak victory would have simultaneously isolated every potential non-Nord ally while also giving the Thalmor an excuse to go to war again.
Hell, you know that Ulfric's an ass before you even meet him. The dude challenged a 15(?) year old king to a duel for the high throne, then had to fucking cheat with Shouts because he was scared of fighting him honestly. Even if there wasn't the looming threat of the Thalmor in the background I'd have supported the Empire solely because the coward was asking to get his shit pushed in from the very start.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 10, 2015, 01:53:38 pm
Post by: UXLZ on July 10, 2015, 02:25:57 pm
Either that or you can compare Dagoth Ur to Alduin (Skyrim did have a bit of grey morality, mostly just with the forsworn though.) Anyway, I digress, the point is that if they're going the super simplified route with FO (which I hope they aren't) you can probably kiss most grey morality goodbye.BoS will be the good guys, Enclave will be the bad guys, raiders will be cartoon evil.
Yeah, pretty sure he ends up expressing regret at some point because he didn't realise what Alduin was doing (he thought he was saving Sovngarde.)
I think you mean king of 15 years, not 15-year-old king. xD
Oh, and I hope that they give the larger factions a real proepr global presence, New Vegas did an excellent job of that with the NCR.
Post by: Putnam on July 10, 2015, 02:47:18 pm
I heard that Oblivion actually had a worse main story than Skyrim. Something about it being "horribly generic in both setting and tone".
I can't really tell since I've never played Oblivion. But as far as the civil war conflict in Skyrim goes, it's pretty gray. 'cept for the whole "Empire was gonna execute you" thing. The rest is basically "choose between horrible racists or a stagnant inefficient empire that bans religions"
1. the empire was forced into the religion banning by the far more powerful aldmeri dominion
2. fuck no Oblivion's story isn't generic, Mankar Camoran's stuff was mostly written by Michael Kirkbride and boy you can tell
Post by: UXLZ on July 10, 2015, 03:11:12 pm
Post by: Krevsin on July 10, 2015, 03:17:43 pm
Skyrim's civil war was pretty far from grey if you paid attention behind the scenes. The Empire's objectionable policies were almost entirely things forced on them by the elves, and despite losing the last war they were still the only thing big enough to have a shot at stopping the Thalmor plan (which can be very roughly summarized as "End the world, mer ascend, everyone else dies"). Ulfric was a self-centered asshole trying to seize power after smelling weakness, and a Stormcloak victory would have simultaneously isolated every potential non-Nord ally while also giving the Thalmor an excuse to go to war again.Well in my defense I've only just begun exploring the Civil War questline and haven't really paid it much mind. :P
Hell, you know that Ulfric's an ass before you even meet him. The dude challenged a 15(?) year old king to a duel for the high throne, then had to fucking cheat with Shouts because he was scared of fighting him honestly. Even if there wasn't the looming threat of the Thalmor in the background I'd have supported the Empire solely because the coward was asking to get his shit pushed in from the very start.
Seriously, apart from the odd stormcloak/imperial soldier you see here and there and some lines of dialogue the NPCs have there really isn't much of a civil war going on.
Post by: Flying Dice on July 10, 2015, 04:02:14 pm
I wasn't comparing how good the stories were, they're both terrible, I was pointing to the simplification. Morality becomes black and white as things get more simple, just compare the three great houses of Morrowind to what could be considered their similar in Skyrim (Thalmor, Imperial, Stormcloak, the three greatest political powers.)
Either that or you can compare Dagoth Ur to Alduin (Skyrim did have a bit of grey morality, mostly just with the forsworn though.) Anyway, I digress, the point is that if they're going the super simplified route with FO (which I hope they aren't) you can probably kiss most grey morality goodbye.BoS will be the good guys, Enclave will be the bad guys, raiders will be cartoon evil.
Yeah, pretty sure he ends up expressing regret at some point because he didn't realise what Alduin was doing (he thought he was saving Sovngarde.)
I think you mean king of 15 years, not 15-year-old king. xD
Oh, and I hope that they give the larger factions a real proepr global presence, New Vegas did an excellent job of that with the NCR.
Ah, you're right, I misremembered. Doesn't mean Ulfric wasn't cheating dishonburu scum though.
Post by: Vendayn on July 10, 2015, 04:19:16 pm
Everything from the beginning. Like, Oblivion's sewer system was VASTLY more epic than the lame and very small prison fort.
And Ulfric...a lying politician douche that fools everyone like real world politicians. He even looks and sounds like a douche. I'm sure the actor is fine and all, but I'm actually talking about the character.
Then there is all the Stormcloak sheeple followers. They are pretty much based off real world followers of certain politicians in todays world, where they don't think for themselves but just go "OOO ULFRIC! LETS WORSHIP HIM! HE CAN DO NO WRONG!"
But then that doesn't stop with the Stormcloaks.
The Empire is pretty much real world based off the fall of the roman empire. Corruption, scandals, laziness, collapse of their capital empire (romans lost rome, somewhere down the line turned into the Byzantine Empire with the Constantinople city). And the Empire lost Imperial City (pretty much like Rome).
So, you got the idiotic Stormcloaks. And then the Empire that isn't worth fighting for either and I would never want to be a part of a corrupted empire that is on the verge of falling like the real world Romans did.
Then you got The Blades. They were awesome in Oblivion. Except, in Skyrim...they are douches.
Children in Skyrim are douches, I kill all of them except the two in Riverwood
Most of the NPCs in general are douches
In fact, the only ones I sorta like are Thalmor...they are douches, but at least they aren't lazy as hell like the Empire. And its pretty obvious in-game what they are doing, unlike the lying politician Ulfric who isn't so upfront with his agenda
Gameplay wise. The Brotherhood is okay, but Oblivion was vastly better. The thieves guild is the worst guild I've ever seen in Elder Scrolls...its not even a thieves guild like Oblivion was. The mage guild is okay, its a mage guild. The companions are okay at first, but then the game goes "lol I'm gonna force you to be a werewolf if you join us"
In fact, the game doesn't give you many choices. It forces quests upon you, it forces quest decisions on you (like werewolf) and like the redguards that come up to you just randomly in whiterun, you can't even avoid them. WTF?
The only faction I'd ever want to be a part of in Skyrim is Thalmor, and they aren't that great as it is.
Anyway, hopefully Fallout 4 does better NPCs and quests than Skyrim. Cause Oblivion (vanilla gameplay wise) was vastly better. At least all of Oblivions were likeable for the most part. Even the douchey ones were MUCH better than the ones in Skyrim.
From what I saw, Fallout 4 has a vastly better in-game start than Fallout 3 did...come on...starting pre-war? How epic is that. Even if its short or not, still amazing. And gonna allow some really epic mods down the road with all those pre-war assets. And character customization looks amazing...you already know the "body" (heh heh) mods that will come out for it rofl. And the player not being a mute is a vast improvement too...far more modern for gaming. Voice acting looks improved to.
The only thing I hope is that Fallout 4 doesn't force quests upon you like they did in Skyrim. That was epic fail. Maybe the main storyline I can deal with doing that, don't really care about that. Just not random quests I never want to do.
Post by: Vendayn on July 10, 2015, 04:31:55 pm
And...I want to make a pre-war fallout overhaul as soon as I am able to. Unless someone beats me to it :P I think that would be epic.
I think there are probably going to be a lot of people going for a pre-war Fallout mod though :P Or maybe not, in any case...at least a portion of the assets will be available. Dunno how many assets there will be in pre-war Fallout, but should be a good enough start.
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 10, 2015, 05:06:38 pm
Post by: Gunner-Chan on July 10, 2015, 05:13:31 pm
I think the literal best change I can think of is that weapons will be unique. Not just "9mm pistol" x infinity, it might be "Burst pistol" or "Silenced 9mm" or "Stocked Incendiary Explosive 9mm".
And yet, I'm pretty sure every random guy we shoot will have "10mm pistol" or "Hunting rifle" because something tells me the granular mod system exists only for the player.
It might not though, which would be amazing and potentially scary if some random raider ends up with a "10mm nanomatic combat rifle" or something
Post by: Flying Dice on July 10, 2015, 05:38:43 pm
Post by: Vendayn on July 10, 2015, 06:08:26 pm
Post by: Ehndras on July 10, 2015, 06:13:39 pm
I look forward to seeing what FO4 has in store for us. I'm happy to know its going to be located somewhere I actually have a vague idea about, being from the NY/NJ/PA tri-state area myself.
Post by: Wimopy on July 10, 2015, 07:12:25 pm
Sure, they probably don't get educated much, but the adults are usually fine, so how do they get like that?
Random guy walks to Little Lamplight, has a gun pointed at him when he just wants to pass into a super mutant infested area. The guy would just walk into that area, you think a few kids could stop him? Answer: yes, because immortality and a flimsy gate.
The random children in Skyrim aren't any better either. Not surprising there ain't many of them around (compared to the families).
I do have high hopes for FO4 myself. Seems as they are making an effort to appease the players with good new features, though it also feels a bit like they are just riding the waves made by the most popular mods... guess we'll have to wait and see.
Post by: umiman on July 10, 2015, 10:01:57 pm
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. (https://youtu.be/rf_3ZTp4eG4?t=16s)
Post by: Bohandas on July 11, 2015, 01:24:03 am
Crafting looks amazing for Fallout 4. I'm probably most excited about that as I can make so many different weapons.
And...I want to make a pre-war fallout overhaul as soon as I am able to. Unless someone beats me to it :P I think that would be epic.
I think there are probably going to be a lot of people going for a pre-war Fallout mod though :P Or maybe not, in any case...at least a portion of the assets will be available. Dunno how many assets there will be in pre-war Fallout, but should be a good enough start.
Pre-war or pre-nukes? Because for pre-nukes there's already the Operation Anchorage DLC for Fallout 3
I heard that Oblivion actually had a worse main story than Skyrim. Something about it being "horribly generic in both setting and tone".
I can't really tell since I've never played Oblivion. But as far as the civil war conflict in Skyrim goes, it's pretty gray. 'cept for the whole "Empire was gonna execute you" thing. The rest is basically "choose between horrible racists or a stagnant inefficient empire that bans religions"
What Skyrim really needed was the option to just take the place over yourself (and possibly by yourself as well; you're powerful enough for it by the end of the game)
Either that or you can compare Dagoth Ur to Alduin (Skyrim did have a bit of grey morality, mostly just with the forsworn though.) Anyway, I digress, the point is that if they're going the super simplified route with FO (which I hope they aren't) you can probably kiss most grey morality goodbye.BoS will be the good guys, Enclave will be the bad guys, raiders will be cartoon evil.
Or the BoS could be a gang of elitist bandits like in FNV.
Post by: Krevsin on July 11, 2015, 02:21:32 am
It'd practically have to, to some degree, I'd think. There's no Repair skill, so I'm speculating (of course) that more complex and advanced weapon components would be restricted until you found a weapon with them. So you can't make a gun with a Laser Hyperspiffulator Module until you find an existing gun which has one.Dunno, judging from the screenshots of the crafting system, the only things you need is the requisite materials and the proper perk.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Connecting to Vendayn's post here: why are children such huge jerks (FO3 and Skyrim)? It's like they know you can't touch them and they don't give much thanks for anythingYeah, bethesda writers really suck at writing children.
Sure, they probably don't get educated much, but the adults are usually fine, so how do they get like that?
Random guy walks to Little Lamplight, has a gun pointed at him when he just wants to pass into a super mutant infested area. The guy would just walk into that area, you think a few kids could stop him? Answer: yes, because immortality and a flimsy gate.
The random children in Skyrim aren't any better either. Not surprising there ain't many of them around (compared to the families).
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 11, 2015, 02:41:11 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 11, 2015, 03:25:16 am
Post by: Andres on July 11, 2015, 03:54:58 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 11, 2015, 05:47:00 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 11, 2015, 05:48:50 am
Someone mod in a sweetroll rebellion faction, please.It would be pretty amusing if there was a faction dedicated to baked goods and they had small carts around the wasteland.
"'allo sir can I interest you in a hot bun or sweet roll?"
And nobody fucked with them, not even the most hardcore raider, because they had such tasty rolls.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 11, 2015, 05:54:53 am
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 11, 2015, 05:56:47 am
If you want an example made by Bethesda themselves, The Pitt was pretty damn grey. You had to choose between freeing the slaves, but destroying what could become an advanced society in the process, or help that society not only thrive, and maybe curing a dangerous mutation in the process, at the cost of continuing slavery.Heh, you know what I thought was just as bitter?
Condemning the man, (the BOS guy), to failure & simultaneously ending all chances for his redemption.
Just damning him & his wife to infamy & a gruesome death when they had the potential to be saviors.
You are personally putting a stop to that, a premature end.
Goddamn that's a tough pill to swallow.
Quote
Empire forced to do things by the aldmeri dominion.You know, this is just about their biggest fuck-up IMO. So they go ahead and get their asses kicked by the Aldmeri right? After the whole 'all your spies' heads belong to us' moment, that idiot Reman gets trapped in his own city & has to bust out at great cost to his men. His capital sacked & occupied, he gets reinforced by the Nords coming down through Bruma & uses them to retake it.
And what does he do as thanks?
He relinquishes his sovereignty over Skyrim (& the empire) by royally fucking over the Nords & banning worship of their patron saint, having the Thalmor walk his streets & arrest his citizens.
Ulfric might be a shitty choice of leader, but I'd say the nords are justified in leaving the empire after the magnificent backstab Reman pulled & how they've already lost control of
-Morrowind got fucked up by red mountain & invaded/rekt by black marsh, can't really care about empire anymore
-Black marsh invaded/rekt Morrowind, don't really care about empire anymore
-Valenwood absorbed by Aldmeri, Elseweyr follows after the whole moon thing
-Hammerfell recks Aldmeri invaders, is given up by the same 'we surrender pls don't hurt us' treaty that backstabbed the nords
-No idea what High Rock is doing.
Nah, the empire isn't serving anyone anymore, no point to keep supporting them.
I can't find the post/website where I read it, but I liked someone else's idea:
Support the empire, --assassinate the emperor--, become the emperor yourself off-screen. You are a dragonborn after all, by all reports a rather powerful one.
There's no reason you couldn't be another Talos & re-unify everyone.
And the player not being a mute is a vast improvement too...far more modern for gaming. Voice acting looks improved to.
Except adding the VA cut the amount of dialogue by 62%, (77% compared to NV). If you liked to roleplay, this is bad news- you get fewer options & there'll be fewer conversations. And for what? So you don't get to fill in the character's voice in your head but are instead stuck with the one they chose? (perhaps with modulations for pitch (hopefully))
Not to mention the bioware-ized paraphrasing. Though it looked a little more like LA-Noire to me, (we all know how that turned out..).
Post by: Arbinire on July 11, 2015, 07:24:03 am
Or the BoS could be a gang of elitist bandits like in FO1, FO2, and FNV.
Fixed that for ya.
Post by: Andres on July 11, 2015, 07:41:30 am
I don't care what they were like in other games. The only thing I care about is that they were awesome in Fallout 3.
Post by: notquitethere on July 11, 2015, 07:47:51 am
Post by: Krevsin on July 11, 2015, 08:53:49 am
I wouldn't get your hopes up too much for Fallout 4's story. They've got the same writer they had for Fallout 3, and dude's already proven he's had a fundamental misunderstanding as to what the setting is actually about.Out of curiosity's sake, what is the setting about?Or the BoS could be a gang of elitist bandits like in FO1, FO2, and FNV.
Fixed that for ya.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 11, 2015, 08:58:33 am
Out of curiosity's sake, what is the setting about?1950's camp and the color brown
Post by: Arbinire on July 11, 2015, 10:14:36 am
Out of curiosity's sake, what is the setting about?
http://www.slideshare.net/guest579df5/fallout-bible-complete
Post by: miauw62 on July 11, 2015, 10:21:35 am
Post by: umiman on July 11, 2015, 10:43:38 am
I wouldn't get your hopes up too much for Fallout 4's story. They've got the same writer they had for Fallout 3, and dude's already proven he's had a fundamental misunderstanding as to what the setting is actually about.Out of curiosity's sake, what is the setting about?Or the BoS could be a gang of elitist bandits like in FO1, FO2, and FNV.
Fixed that for ya.
Edit: I wrote some stuff here but I found someone who articulates about this far better than me:
The Blistering Stupidity of Fallout 3, Part 1 (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=27085)
Quote
The original Fallout game was a gritty world where you explore the vast California desert in search of a water purification chip. It drew influences from Mad Max, campy 50’s sci-fi movies, and pulpy comics of the same era. It had a streak of pitch-black comedy running throughout it. It wasn’t about the 1950’s, it was about the future that the 1950’s anticipated. It was a game that took place in the future of the past.
Bethesda saw this template and concluded that a Fallout game needed to take place in the desert, it needed to be about water, it should contain screwball comedy, and that it should be the 1950’s forever.
They tried to keep the “desert” concept, but moved the game to Washington D.C. where a desert motif makes no sense. They tried to keep the pulp sc-fi tone, but it was often undercut by Bethesda’s putty-faced NPC’s, horrendous washed out color palette, and blunt attempts at photo-realism. They completely misunderstood the humor, replacing ‘dark comedy’ with ‘goofball situations’. And finally, the whole 50’s thing was greatly exaggerated and then rendered nonsensical by moving the timeline forward to 200 years after the war.
This fundamental misunderstanding of the Fallout tone and themes infuses the game and is the source of nearly every major design failing.
Post by: Krevsin on July 11, 2015, 12:42:46 pm
Then again, the dark humour is gone and the morality is about as grey as an oreo so FO3 is not exactly a running candidate for best RPG ever in my book.
Eh, thanks for the links. They're interesting reading. Except for the Fallout Bible, I have that on GoG.
Fun fact: Fallout 1 was the first fallout game I ever played but I only played it the year FO3 came out. Mostly because my computer couldn't run FO3 so I just went and bought a compilation that bundled FO1, FO2 and Tactics.
Post by: Ehndras on July 11, 2015, 03:13:40 pm
Post by: Krevsin on July 11, 2015, 03:16:04 pm
Post by: Geltor on July 11, 2015, 05:27:34 pm
Quote
The original Fallout game was a gritty world where you explore the vast California desert in search of a water purification chip. It drew influences from Mad Max, campy 50’s sci-fi movies, and pulpy comics of the same era. It had a streak of pitch-black comedy running throughout it. It wasn’t about the 1950’s, it was about the future that the 1950’s anticipated. It was a game that took place in the future of the past.im rather annoyed by posts like these... posts that attempt to depict fallout 3 as the big failure in the fallout franchise, BUT at the same time praise fallout nv for being true to the original fallouts in all respects while having the same identical flaws as in fallout 3. while the writing and general gameplay is vastly improved in nv, no fallout game delivered the disheartening wasteland feeling to me as fallout 3 did
Bethesda saw this template and concluded that a Fallout game needed to take place in the desert, it needed to be about water, it should contain screwball comedy, and that it should be the 1950’s forever.
They tried to keep the “desert” concept, but moved the game to Washington D.C. where a desert motif makes no sense. They tried to keep the pulp sc-fi tone, but it was often undercut by Bethesda’s putty-faced NPC’s, horrendous washed out color palette, and blunt attempts at photo-realism. They completely misunderstood the humor, replacing ‘dark comedy’ with ‘goofball situations’. And finally, the whole 50’s thing was greatly exaggerated and then rendered nonsensical by moving the timeline forward to 200 years after the war.
This fundamental misunderstanding of the Fallout tone and themes infuses the game and is the source of nearly every major design failing.
Post by: umiman on July 11, 2015, 05:31:02 pm
Post by: Putnam on July 11, 2015, 05:49:50 pm
while the writing and general gameplay is vastly improved in nv, no fallout game delivered the disheartening wasteland feeling to me as fallout 3 did
primarily because that's not what fallout is about and the fact that 3 is the only game that gives you that feeling is the EXACT reason people complain about it?
You said that NV has the exact same flaws as 3 then said that only 3 has the exact flaw people give it crap for (while presenting it as a pro)...
Post by: Flying Dice on July 11, 2015, 06:34:51 pm
If you actually read the article, he doesn't praise NV either.But reading is difficult! ::)
Besides, FO3's plot is pants-on-head retarded.
Post by: Krevsin on July 12, 2015, 12:00:02 am
If you actually read the article, he doesn't praise NV either.He doesn't diss it to the same extent as FO3 either. He just says that its environments are dull and ohnoesinvisiblewalls in both actual and "here are some monsters that are too strong for your level" sense. The latter of which I don't really get because it makes perfect sense that there are some things too powerful for you to handle out there.
Anyway, the point of the article isn't so much about to argue about whether NV or FO3 is better and I quote:
Quote
We’ve got this false dichotomy between fans of the games where you can either have:
The fun, atmosphere, exploration, and [relative] stability of Fallout 3, or…
Rich lore, vibrant characterization, and consistent themes of New Vegas, but the gameworld looks bland, there are invisible walls everywhere, and it crashes all the time.
Do not fall for this. The Fallout 3 story didn’t need to be stupid. They could have just turned the world of Fallout into a mutant shooting gallery, but instead they constructed this long, strange, nonsensical, thematically disjointed, morally confused, horribly paced story with overlong dialog and contrived choices with no emotional payoff.
This shouldn’t be an argument between Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas. This should be an argument between Fallout 3 and the BETTER version of Fallout 3 we could have gotten if just one person had stepped in and either fixed the plot, or changed the plot to tackle a subject commensurate with the skills and ambitions of the writing staff.
You don’t need to accept the Fallout 3 story just because you liked the shooting. Games criticism isn’t an all-or-nothing deal, and it’s okay to hate one part of a game and love a different part. When this much time and money is spent on making a game this big, there’s no excuse for the story to be this bad. They could have done better. This franchise deserved better. You deserved better.
Post by: Geltor on July 12, 2015, 02:07:51 am
I disagree with you. Fallout 1 delivered it spot on with its ost, grittiness and cinematics (especially endings), and if i may be entitled to my own opinion, it surely was part of the game and i think was delivered better in 3. If people complain about it, then im not part of that fallout fan collectivewhile the writing and general gameplay is vastly improved in nv, no fallout game delivered the disheartening wasteland feeling to me as fallout 3 did
primarily because that's not what fallout is about and the fact that 3 is the only game that gives you that feeling is the EXACT reason people complain about it?
You said that NV has the exact same flaws as 3 then said that only 3 has the exact flaw people give it crap for (while presenting it as a pro)...
Post by: Flying Dice on July 12, 2015, 02:26:28 am
Pick one. The only thing I remember being disheartening was the feeling of YET ANOTHER FUCKING GENERIC RANDOM ENCOUNTER.
Quote
Radscorpions!ad nausem.
Post by: Putnam on July 12, 2015, 02:45:53 am
Post by: Krevsin on July 12, 2015, 04:11:02 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 12, 2015, 07:55:25 am
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on July 12, 2015, 08:17:41 am
After multiple years and all of the DLC I DID get burned out on it, but hey so does everyone on things they do/play/listen to often. In the end, while FO3 is great despite many of its design/engine aspect instead of because of them it remains an amazing experience. It's not perfect, but Bethesda definitely made the best game that they could at the time.
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 12, 2015, 08:59:57 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on July 12, 2015, 09:03:48 am
Sounds like how I feel about oblivion. "Babbies first RPG" syndrome.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I was going to mention that too actually, escaping from the oblivion sewers was one of the first things I did in the video gaming world and it was really awesome. Though FO3 was hardly my first RPG, not even my first Bethesda RPG so i'd rule that out.
Post by: Arbinire on July 12, 2015, 09:38:26 am
Post by: miauw62 on July 12, 2015, 12:54:28 pm
Post by: Teneb on July 12, 2015, 01:06:52 pm
I always found NV to have a distinct feeling of "We Can Rebuild" to it.NV was about the rebuilding of civilization. You no longer had everyone barely scraping by, living with only what they could find in a scrap pile. You had civilizations with their own laws and armies, an entire city dedicated to gambling, farms and so on.
The main game, anyway. The DLCs were very much low on the Hope factor.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 12, 2015, 01:28:01 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 12, 2015, 05:41:02 pm
Post by: Wimopy on July 13, 2015, 01:53:58 pm
New Vegas really is a glowing point in the Wasteland. And a big sandstorm decides to hit it in the form of the three-way war between NCR, Caesar's Legion and Mr. House.
Though I guess FO3's setting is symbolic too. Sure, the BoS and the Enclave are vying for supremacy (Good Guy in Power Armour vs Bad Guy in Power Armour), but in the end, it's still the super mutants who control the symbols of power and history in Washington.
The great difference I feel though: You're not thrown into the power struggle, you are basically the cause of it escalating (or well, turning into a battle in DC). Without you, James would be stuck in a simulation and the purifier would stay a lost project for quite a few more years, if not forever.
Now, I wonder what sort of feeling Boston will have. Is it a 'beacon of prosperity' like Vegas? It doesn't seem to be an almost fully lost cause like DC (let's face it, besides the purifier, that place is practically dead).
I'm guessing that it'll feel like New Vegas though, a bit. I'm expecting a copy of the "great clash between major powers, with an unexpected third party [androids]". It's not a beacon of prosperity though, just a sort-of working civilisation. Still, it certainly doesn't look hopeless, what with all the airships.
Post by: Bohandas on July 19, 2015, 05:54:58 pm
Post by: Wimopy on July 19, 2015, 06:38:37 pm
What I'd like to see though, is the BoS being more a mix of Lyons' and the normal BoS. All the tech-orientation of the normal BoS, but with a side of helping people and not just thinking of them like savages (á la Outcasts). The helping people part would only go as far as helping get Project Purity running, just to learn of the tech, by sending 1-2 scribes at most. Fighting the Enclave is okay, but not trying to play the role of government enforcement.
I wonder what tie-ins there will be with Fallout 3 though. Will there be a mention of Lyons? Will there be Aqua Pura available (at exorbitant prices)? Any rumors spreading out from the Pitt? That sort of thing. And I'm not thinking shout outs only, I'm thinking of actual effects people/plot points in FO3 playing part in FO4. Though it seems it will play at the same time or before Fallout 3.
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 19, 2015, 10:32:38 pm
In case anyone was sitting on the fence about buying this week 1-2, thought you'd want to know- I was.
Post by: ShoesandHats on July 19, 2015, 11:37:00 pm
Here's the original article, (http://www.gamespot.com/articles/bethesda-talks-skyrims-paid-mods-controversy/1100-6428952/) by the way.
Post by: umiman on July 20, 2015, 12:22:06 am
And it will succeed too, because this time they'll be doing it for the console crowd instead of the PC users. Considering the console guys that don't play on PC, there's no reason why they won't shell out either. There's no precedent for them to be outraged.
I'm looking forward so happily to the future where mods go the way of DLC, preorders, and season passes. /s
Post by: Arbinire on July 20, 2015, 12:30:46 am
Post by: Flying Dice on July 20, 2015, 12:34:32 am
Oh. Wait. The R18 mods. Which they won't get.
Post by: Krevsin on July 20, 2015, 12:47:43 am
Post by: umiman on July 20, 2015, 02:56:27 am
Post by: Mech#4 on July 20, 2015, 03:07:45 am
Post by: notquitethere on July 20, 2015, 03:39:54 am
Post by: Krevsin on July 20, 2015, 04:26:30 am
Unless I am entirely wrong and Bethesda WANTS to get burned again.
Post by: UXLZ on July 20, 2015, 04:31:19 am
Post by: Wimopy on July 20, 2015, 05:05:20 am
That's something I'd accept. I'm already hurt by having to pay for tons of DLCs (which is why I wait for a discounted GotY), I don't want to have to pay for mods as well, even though quite a few modders deserve it. I'm a student, I don't have a stable income or budget yet, so I'd prefer not to spend money for every little thing. If I had an income, then yeah, I'm sure I could designate a part of it for game purposes (including donations), but that's not true right now.
Console paid mods might be brought in though. Unfortunately, since they have no history of having mods for free, it seems easy enough to force it on them. Especially if it's some sort of extra work to port from PC to Console (even if it's minor). Still, I'd prefer the Basic Version vs Paid Version thing.
All-in-all, I'm okay with having paid mods, really, so long as it's the modders' choice to go with paid or not.
Post by: Krevsin on July 20, 2015, 06:40:59 am
So far you only have generic man/woman. I'd like some more variation.
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 20, 2015, 07:06:38 am
Mmm, and advertisements to buy the 'paid' version. I can only imagine what ~2 dozen free versions would do to your experience.
And they might deserve it, but it's not what they signed up for. They signed up for improving the game for themselves & others for free. Allowing paid mods changes the dynamic, brings in a whole new crowd of people that will only do it for the money, and ultimately benefits bethesda the most &, well, console players to a lesser degree.
But it's not really a win for them, not when beth/m$/sony could just, you know, allow access to the modding community as-is, without trying to profiteer more than they already are from all the -free- content & fixes the modders are putting out there for them on the PC versions.
After the backlash from Skyrim, though, I'd have to think that they'd make some pretty big revisions to the system.Or they'll have a bigger PR team hired, prepped, and ready. And that aforementioned cushion of money to survive off of, and no major imminent releases to worry about.
I'd wager they'll tweak the percentages & maybe throw in an extra bone to make it look like they care, and then they'll hold their ground and fight us for it.
Post by: Bohandas on July 20, 2015, 09:59:20 am
Post by: SealyStar on July 20, 2015, 10:16:53 am
It won't do a bit of good for those who made mods
Yes, it's so scummy, so very scummy
That only Bethesda could do it!♫
Post by: miauw62 on July 20, 2015, 12:49:35 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 20, 2015, 12:52:58 pm
or vote with your wallet and not buy the paid mods?
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 20, 2015, 12:55:33 pm
If they start this paid mods shit again I'm changing all my Steam reviews for Bethesda games to negativeWhy? The games aren't bad, just the company's practices.
Post by: miauw62 on July 20, 2015, 12:58:48 pm
Post by: Graknorke on July 20, 2015, 01:02:45 pm
Thing is, the games generally are bad and only playable because of mods. At least, Skyrim and Oblivion were.If they start this paid mods shit again I'm changing all my Steam reviews for Bethesda games to negativeWhy? The games aren't bad, just the company's practices.
Post by: FArgHalfnr on July 20, 2015, 01:04:07 pm
Post by: Tellemurius on July 20, 2015, 01:04:51 pm
edit: but then you got people like OP who wants to start stuff.
Post by: Cthulhu on July 20, 2015, 01:09:30 pm
Even Morrowind was more of an "I love this game despite it being bad" than a real masterpiece. Lots of bugs and weirdness.
I'm fully expecting Fallout 4 to follow the trend. I haven't even watched the trailer.
But yeah, the thing that started this was a little ambiguous, I like the kneejerk outrage that followed. Honestly, mods are always going to be free, just like everything on the internet, because our property and copyright laws are inadequate to deal with the nature of the internet. But I won't say more about that cause it's not allowed.
Post by: Tellemurius on July 20, 2015, 01:14:33 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 20, 2015, 01:19:39 pm
Post by: IWishIWereSarah on July 20, 2015, 01:24:50 pm
Sure, the companies get most of the money and that is "unfair" (but hey, capitalism oh !).
But as long as nothing prevents free mods, we will have fixes for the blatant bugs, and many "little" mods will be free.
Most mods that add a companion with many quests and graphics won't be free. But why shouldn't the modder get something from it ?
As an unemployed "developper", I wouldn't mind developping a few paid mods for some extra money...
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 20, 2015, 01:26:16 pm
Otherwise you're making much ado about nothing.
Post by: miauw62 on July 20, 2015, 01:33:45 pm
I'm fine with big mods carrying a small price tag, like that dude who made several new questlines with lore, maps and everything, but the examples we've had so far were, with one exception, shitty, buggy and unfinished. Like two of them were just model rips from DOTA 2, one was a very shitty-looking underground town, most of the armor items didn't even have inventory models.
Post by: nenjin on July 20, 2015, 01:50:58 pm
Post by: Tellemurius on July 20, 2015, 01:53:07 pm
The only thing I really care about, assuming paid mods happen for FO4, is how Bethesda and/or Steam plan to protect and police the content people put up for sale. Companies always seem willing to take money for something, but are rarely willing to put out the effort to actually enforce anything.The best and worst option would lock it into an Workshop Only solution and force mod devs to focus from one platform. Valve can intervene alot harder if a user is suspected of stealing and selling someone's work.
Post by: Graknorke on July 20, 2015, 02:01:29 pm
Post by: Iceblaster on July 20, 2015, 02:03:26 pm
Nexusmods, for example.
It's probably not that hard if you have a badass legal team.
Post by: Graknorke on July 20, 2015, 02:13:50 pm
Post by: nenjin on July 20, 2015, 02:22:51 pm
Post by: Tellemurius on July 20, 2015, 02:40:37 pm
Nexus would be really hard to let go for mods. They stepped in as the main modding community when Gamespy dropped support for Morrowind and Oblivion. Their mod manager still sucks but for people that get the premium service its a godsend.
Post by: Flying Dice on July 20, 2015, 02:56:08 pm
Can we actually start repeating the song-and-dance over paid mods once we get some concrete information on them being included or not, please?Since you missed it: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/bethesda-talks-skyrims-paid-mods-controversy/1100-6428952/ (http://www.gamespot.com/articles/bethesda-talks-skyrims-paid-mods-controversy/1100-6428952/)
Otherwise you're making much ado about nothing.
Quote
"I think our stance on it is we're going to re-evaluate it going forward," Hines said. "I think that we feel like there is a case to be made that people who spend a lot of time working on mods ought to be able to have a way of monetizing what they're doing."We're going to wait and try it again."
Quote
"Certainly some of the folks that we talked to were very interested in and supportive of the idea," he added. "We had creators who said, 'I've been asking for donations for years and never saw anything, and I made more in one day.' So why would I not support that?"Except that 90% of the paid mods were shit, stolen, or jokes. Keep lying.
Quote
"Our belief is, 'We made the game, we made the game you're making a thing for.' So just like anything else, there is some kind of involvement that we're going to have in that," he said."We own your work because we made the shitty game you made it for." "If we build a crappy car and you design a kit to soup it up, we deserve the money you make selling that kit."
Quote
Fallout 4 is making new strides as it relates to mods. Bethesda and Microsoft have teamed up to bring PC mods for the post-apocalyptic RPG to Xbox One. This isn't happening soon, though. Mod tools for the PC edition won't roll out until 2016, with the mods themselves coming to Xbox One (and eventually PlayStation 4) sometime later."Hey, remember how we said that we'd try again later with paid mods? Guess what else we're doing in the middle distance of the future? *wink wink nudge nudge*"
Keep in mind that Pete Hines, the guy that's giving these quotes, he's their VP of PR and Marketing. He's also probably one of the fuckers that pushed for this before. It's not hard confirmation that paid mods are going to be a thing again, but giving that kind of notice would have torpedoed it before it ever had a chance to happen. It's like SOPA, they're going to keep bringing it back every year or two hoping to slip it by while nobody is watching.
Post by: NullForceOmega on July 20, 2015, 03:14:24 pm
Post by: Vendayn on July 20, 2015, 03:49:22 pm
And actually, I'm not gonna buy mods...I'm gonna um...download "trials" of said paid mods ;) I'll still buy FO4, but no way am I gonna buy mods.
You could already download "trials" within a day of paid skyrim mods lol.
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 20, 2015, 03:56:19 pm
Post by: JimboM12 on July 20, 2015, 03:57:05 pm
The idea of paid mods in and of themselves aren't a bad thing: but it will run away with every mod of some quality (and alot that aren't) becoming paid. Oh, you want a unofficial patch because every Fallout game has its bugs and you don't like bugs? $15. (This said, the teams that made the unofficial patches for Skyrim were some chill guys and I wouldn't suspect them of doing this, but imagine if someone simply stole their mod, made little changes and began charging for it) Better textures? 5 packs of textures, each $20.
Now, some mods get fuckhuge and are actually worth donations/money: take Nehrim for Oblivion. It was practically its own game and was a great damn total conversion.
TL;DR: I'm just worried it will cause a massive clusterfuck where mods of good quality, but rather small scale, go paid for little reason (just ask for donations, guys, please) and simple idea/change mods or shit mods with stolen assets make tons of money.
Post by: Tellemurius on July 20, 2015, 04:04:54 pm
Welp, let's call out across the realms of gaming for support to fight this.Thats the thing though is if Bethesda can isolate the modding environment then issues like the mods with small changes can be reported right away. I think there should be an option if people want to sell mods or not. All the modders that pour alot of time in generating content should deserve some compensation. Its upto a modder if their prices are going to be right or at scumbag level.
The idea of paid mods in and of themselves aren't a bad thing: but it will run away with every mod of some quality (and alot that aren't) becoming paid. Oh, you want a unofficial patch because every Fallout game has its bugs and you don't like bugs? $15. (This said, the teams that made the unofficial patches for Skyrim were some chill guys and I wouldn't suspect them of doing this, but imagine if someone simply stole their mod, made little changes and began charging for it) Better textures? 5 packs of textures, each $20.
Now, some mods get fuckhuge and are actually worth donations/money: take Nehrim for Oblivion. It was practically its own game and was a great damn total conversion.
TL;DR: I'm just worried it will cause a massive clusterfuck where mods of good quality, but rather small scale, go paid for little reason (just ask for donations, guys, please) and simple idea/change mods or shit mods with stolen assets make tons of money.
Post by: Flying Dice on July 20, 2015, 04:41:34 pm
But that's never going to happen, and I wouldn't support it if it did because I'd know that it was just a prelude to a broader attack on the community.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 20, 2015, 04:44:01 pm
I said it before, but I honestly wouldn't have a problem with a certain iteration of paid mods. Namely, stuff like Moonpath to Elsweyr getting cooperation from Bethesda to be made into a fully integrated DLC package, with the original mod team getting at least 50% of the profit from sales. But that's it. Only select, large-scale projects which are functionally equivalent to their internally produced DLC expansions.I think I'd be cool with paid mods if they did it very carefully and not-awfully. As in, things like Falskaar and Moonpath getting cooperation...
But that's never going to happen, and I wouldn't support it if it did because I'd know that it was just a prelude to a broader attack on the community.
As for smaller mods, it should at least be heavily moderated. I dunno. Blegh.
Post by: Graknorke on July 20, 2015, 04:45:11 pm
The idea of paid mods in and of themselves aren't a bad thingIt is, though. Up until now modding has been exclusively enthusiasts making things to share and show to other people, because they want to. The culture around modding is completely different to the producer-client relationship that it would change to with paid mods. I don't think anyone could really know how it would affect things.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 20, 2015, 04:46:41 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 20, 2015, 04:47:37 pm
Post by: JimboM12 on July 20, 2015, 04:48:53 pm
I said it before, but I honestly wouldn't have a problem with a certain iteration of paid mods. Namely, stuff like Moonpath to Elsweyr getting cooperation from Bethesda to be made into a fully integrated DLC package, with the original mod team getting at least 50% of the profit from sales. But that's it. Only select, large-scale projects which are functionally equivalent to their internally produced DLC expansions.I think I'd be cool with paid mods if they did it very carefully and not-awfully. As in, things like Falskaar and Moonpath getting cooperation...
But that's never going to happen, and I wouldn't support it if it did because I'd know that it was just a prelude to a broader attack on the community.
As for smaller mods, it should at least be heavily moderated. I dunno. Blegh.
I am also in agreement. Heh, I like the idea of small, dedicated mod groups that wanna make giant, expansion pack mods getting sub-contracted by triple A game devs to make, well, giant expansion packs. Get back to the grandfather of DLC, the almighty expansion pack. Man, I miss the days of Morrowind and stuff.
My point with my post was, I'm envisioning the potential abuse of such a system on both sides (Bethesda and indie modders) and I'm horrified.
The backlash might actually be enough to make them not do it. Again. Which'll be hilarious.
This might happen again and I'll be laughing too. Silly Bethesda, modding is for neckbeards.
Post by: Putnam on July 20, 2015, 04:52:03 pm
But none of that is solid evidence, just a lot of circumstantial. And everything about paid mods was said before it was tried and it'll only be repeated again.
There is precedence: The Sims 2 modding.
There are mod piracy sites that are specifically designed to spite people who charge for their mods.
Post by: Zangi on July 20, 2015, 04:54:57 pm
It really depends on a number of factors...The idea of paid mods in and of themselves aren't a bad thingIt is, though. Up until now modding has been exclusively enthusiasts making things to share and show to other people, because they want to. The culture around modding is completely different to the producer-client relationship that it would change to with paid mods. I don't think anyone could really know how it would affect things.
How decent the vetting of paid-mods is...(if any)
How they'd handle version compatibility with paid-mods, especially if the mod is not updated when broken by patch...
If they will try to shut out the nexus and/or any other outside modding host...
If there is any enforcement on stolen mods, after the fact.
What happens when there is a dispute, for example a paid-mod using frameworks or pieces of another mod without permission/credit.
Probably a bunch of others.
Worse case scenario... it could be the wild west with a vetting process which only cares to get your financial details for payment.
Post by: Shadowlord on July 20, 2015, 04:55:12 pm
Post by: Bohandas on July 20, 2015, 05:43:12 pm
I'd go so far as to say that paid mods will kill the modding community.
Yeah, it'll basically gentrify it.
hey lets all freak out again,
or vote with your wallet and not buy the paid mods?
And don't buy Bethesda's products either!
Welp, let's call out across the realms of gaming for support to fight this.Thats the thing though is if Bethesda can isolate the modding environment then issues like the mods with small changes can be reported right away. I think there should be an option if people want to sell mods or not. All the modders that pour alot of time in generating content should deserve some compensation. Its upto a modder if their prices are going to be right or at scumbag level.
The idea of paid mods in and of themselves aren't a bad thing: but it will run away with every mod of some quality (and alot that aren't) becoming paid. Oh, you want a unofficial patch because every Fallout game has its bugs and you don't like bugs? $15. (This said, the teams that made the unofficial patches for Skyrim were some chill guys and I wouldn't suspect them of doing this, but imagine if someone simply stole their mod, made little changes and began charging for it) Better textures? 5 packs of textures, each $20.
Now, some mods get fuckhuge and are actually worth donations/money: take Nehrim for Oblivion. It was practically its own game and was a great damn total conversion.
TL;DR: I'm just worried it will cause a massive clusterfuck where mods of good quality, but rather small scale, go paid for little reason (just ask for donations, guys, please) and simple idea/change mods or shit mods with stolen assets make tons of money.
If somebody wants to charge for their mod, I'm fine with that, but neither Bethesda or Steam should be a part of it (and I don't just mean they shouldn't get a cut, I mean they shouldn't be allowed to be a part of it at all. The person should have to put on their own site behind their own paywall.)
Post by: Fikes on July 20, 2015, 05:53:39 pm
Quote
If you're afraid that paid mods will be coming back next week, have no fear. Bethesda has apparently put this initiative on hold at least long enough to release Fallout 4 in November. "
http://www.idigitaltimes.com/fallout-4-news-bethesda-says-paid-mods-will-be-back-not-soon-459701
Did I miss something?
Also copying and pasting on a phone is hard and it takes forever.
Post by: BFEL on July 20, 2015, 06:00:51 pm
Quite simply, how many people are actually going to go through the trouble of dicking around with a mod if it costs money?
I won't even cast an aside glance at a mod that requires money to run. The entire reason I spend so much time grabbing mods is because I don't have to pay for them, they're just extra content waiting to be nabbed up.
If mods start costing money, I'll just stop playing mods. Its that simple unfortunately.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 20, 2015, 07:09:21 pm
And don't buy Bethesda's products either!Screw that, Fallout 4 looks awesome. I just won't pay for a single mod.
Post by: Trapezohedron on July 20, 2015, 08:17:34 pm
Why exactly is everyone freaking out. Bes actually said they won't be in for Fallout 4 at least at release.QuoteIf you're afraid that paid mods will be coming back next week, have no fear. Bethesda has apparently put this initiative on hold at least long enough to release Fallout 4 in November. "
http://www.idigitaltimes.com/fallout-4-news-bethesda-says-paid-mods-will-be-back-not-soon-459701
Did I miss something?
Also copying and pasting on a phone is hard and it takes forever.
Bolded part mine. There's the problem.
They won't put Paid Mods on launch, of course. That's to get sales from Fallout 4, out of fans hoping there won't be any paid mods. I'm all for it, if there was only a semblance of monitoring who owns what and reducing copycats/stolen work.
I mean, just look at the App Store; too many lackluster copycats to be found.
Post by: Fikes on July 20, 2015, 08:35:33 pm
So why is all this crap supposition in the Fallout 4 thread? All we know for sure is that Bethesda will bring back paid mods some day and that day won't be the Fallout 4 release.Why exactly is everyone freaking out. Bes actually said they won't be in for Fallout 4 at least at release.QuoteIf you're afraid that paid mods will be coming back next week, have no fear. Bethesda has apparently put this initiative on hold at least long enough to release Fallout 4 in November. "
http://www.idigitaltimes.com/fallout-4-news-bethesda-says-paid-mods-will-be-back-not-soon-459701
Did I miss something?
Also copying and pasting on a phone is hard and it takes forever.
Bolded part mine. There's the problem.
They won't put Paid Mods on launch, of course. That's to get sales from Fallout 4, out of fans hoping there won't be any paid mods. I'm all for it, if there was only a semblance of monitoring who owns what and reducing copycats/stolen work.
I mean, just look at the App Store; too many lackluster copycats to be found.
Post by: Arbinire on July 20, 2015, 08:53:20 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 20, 2015, 09:58:14 pm
How is a singular feature in one game detrimental to all of Bethesda's other products? That's just poor sense.I'd go so far as to say that paid mods will kill the modding community.
Yeah, it'll basically gentrify it.hey lets all freak out again,
or vote with your wallet and not buy the paid mods?
And don't buy Bethesda's products either!
Post by: notquitethere on July 20, 2015, 09:59:57 pm
Possibly unpopular opinion time: Arcanum's combat system was superior to that of the original Fallouts. In Arcanum you can enter live combat when it's a foregone conclusion or you want to run away, also there's a wider variety of unique stuff you can do in fights whereas in Fallout 1 & 2 you'll probably spend most fights shooting the same gun in the same way. Really it gets interesting when you're good enough to tactically target body parts but not so good that you always go for the eyes regardless.
Basically what I'm saying is it isn't a great tragedy that Fallout is now mostly real time. I'm looking forward to seeing what they're changing up with the new perk system. I wonder what role VATS will still play.
Post by: umiman on July 20, 2015, 10:37:42 pm
Post by: Bohandas on July 20, 2015, 10:41:25 pm
How is a singular feature in one game detrimental to all of Bethesda's other products? That's just poor sense.I'd go so far as to say that paid mods will kill the modding community.
Yeah, it'll basically gentrify it.hey lets all freak out again,
or vote with your wallet and not buy the paid mods?
And don't buy Bethesda's products either!
If it doesn't fail it could spread. Not just to Bethesda's other games, to everywhere.
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 20, 2015, 11:09:42 pm
So why is all this crap supposition in the Fallout 4 thread? All we know for sure is that Bethesda will bring back paid mods some day and that day won't be the Fallout 4 release.Because this issue can be very important to people who are interested in F4.
If you vote with your wallet, now's the time. F4 is probably pivotal in their plans regarding paid mods. E3 being just 2 months away & F4 coming down the pipes likely put a lot of the pressure behind their capitulation last time.
That pressure will evaporate after release.
Bethesda is making decisions we don't agree with, and if we buy F4 our dollars will be stuffing their warchest.
F4 may look/be awesome, but Bethesda will leverage the cash you give them to push for paid mods. Probably hard.And don't buy Bethesda's products either!Screw that, Fallout 4 looks awesome. I just won't pay for a single mod.
If we were trying to encourage more developers to make RPGs similiar to TES/FO, then yeah we should buy the game--but that isn't the problem. TES is widely-recognized as a very successful video game & an especially successful RPG. In fact it's just about the gold standard.
What we're trying to do is dissuade a company from taking a course they're dead-set on, and to do that we need to stop giving that company money.
They aren't going to starve if you don't buy the game, and I doubt they'll determine no one likes fallout anymore if their record-breaking sales are slightly lower than projections. What they would do is actually take notice.
And I don't mean this personally, but do you think you'd hold to your convictions if the author responsible for your favorite, most indispensable mod decides to monetize? It's just (4) measly dollars after all. Exceptions are too easy to make, and they're the first step.
Post by: Flying Dice on July 20, 2015, 11:43:54 pm
Post by: AlleeCat on July 20, 2015, 11:46:01 pm
Post by: Bohandas on July 20, 2015, 11:53:29 pm
Honestly, I'm just worried that if Fallout 4 flops, they just won't make another Fallout game and keep pushing paid mods. I think it would be a better idea to just not buy mods. If Bethesda isn't making money off of it, they won't bother putting the time and energy into supporting it.
If Fallout 4 flops and they keep pushing paid mods boycott their next game too. Boycott all of their games until they go out of business and the franchises get picked up by another company
Post by: Arbinire on July 21, 2015, 12:03:24 am
Honestly, I'm just worried that if Fallout 4 flops, they just won't make another Fallout game and keep pushing paid mods. I think it would be a better idea to just not buy mods. If Bethesda isn't making money off of it, they won't bother putting the time and energy into supporting it.
I don't think that's a problem with how well Fallout Shelter has done and all the hype that's surrounded Fallout 4 for the past year, what with the fake release sites, the E3 coverage and excitement, pre-orders and how fast the pip-boy editions sold, etc. They'd have to be very dense to not realize if there were a dip in projected sales it wasn't because of the idea of paid mods considering the initial reaction to it.
That said I have to agree with Flying Dice, people really need to hop of the hype trains when it comes to initial releases in general(not just Bethesda games). I'll personally be waiting for the inevitable GOTY edition when it's on sale depending on how things pan out.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 21, 2015, 12:08:18 am
I don't think there's much chance of Bethesda stopping making Fallout games. It's their, what, 2nd most popular I.P? A decision like adding paid mods is not one that they would've made lightly and I would guess a fair amount of research went into it's possible application. Though, remember New Coke and how research said people liked that much more than the original, then see the result when it was released.
I do think modding should be free. I do not expect mods for games and if people do make mods it's more something they do in their spare time to add to the community as I see it.
If Bethesda wants to have a section for paid mods, perhaps they should frame it more as a "young developers" circle. People get added to the group funded by Bethesda where they can work closely with the company to produce content to buy, with the potential for placement in the company if they do exceptional work as well as future résumé material.
Post by: Trapezohedron on July 21, 2015, 12:16:25 am
If Bethesda wants to have a section for paid mods, perhaps they should frame it more as a "young developers" circle. People get added to the group funded by Bethesda where they can work closely with the company to produce content to buy, with the potential for placement in the company if they do exceptional work as well as future résumé material.
I like this idea really.
Perhaps it could be used to screen thieves by presenting a mod portfolio, with only those being the nicest or at least things that make sense or simply awesome being presented to Bethesda to make "Mini-DLCs", with a catch requiring them to explain how a certain portion of their mod-code works to prove they're the author of the mod.
And in the case of mods being made by multiple authors, consent must be required to include them each into the project, OR allowing the individual to publish it alone.
This still kills the modding scene somewhat (open code guides, mod dependencies, etc). :/
Post by: Mech#4 on July 21, 2015, 12:40:31 am
If they aren't called mods then people won't have the expectations of cross compatibility, free, sharing codebase and everything else that can still exist under the mod label.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 21, 2015, 01:18:02 am
It's not a zombie plague (Like EA), it's a policy. Not everyone is going to do it even if this does work-Which I still doubt it even will.How is a singular feature in one game detrimental to all of Bethesda's other products? That's just poor sense.I'd go so far as to say that paid mods will kill the modding community.
Yeah, it'll basically gentrify it.hey lets all freak out again,
or vote with your wallet and not buy the paid mods?
And don't buy Bethesda's products either!
If it doesn't fail it could spread. Not just to Bethesda's other games, to everywhere.
Post by: UXLZ on July 21, 2015, 01:23:13 am
Plus, Beth is the main company when it comes to having modded games. JUST them is too much.
Post by: Balistic604 on July 21, 2015, 01:25:12 am
It's not a zombie plague (Like EA), it's a policy. Not everyone is going to do it even if this does work-Which I still doubt it even will.How is a singular feature in one game detrimental to all of Bethesda's other products? That's just poor sense.I'd go so far as to say that paid mods will kill the modding community.
Yeah, it'll basically gentrify it.hey lets all freak out again,
or vote with your wallet and not buy the paid mods?
And don't buy Bethesda's products either!
If it doesn't fail it could spread. Not just to Bethesda's other games, to everywhere.
What about what happened with DLC? That really took off with the advent of the Horse Armor DlC for Oblivion. Now, nearly every game has some form of DLC.
Post by: scriver on July 21, 2015, 01:28:38 am
Besides, it's not like anyone sensible buys Bethesda RPGs at release anyways. You might as well wait a couple months until the unofficial patches are out, the UI and other essential mods are finished, and the game goes on sale.
Lots of sensible people buy Bethesda games at release. That's how they make most of their money, as you probably already know. Point is that these people aren't any less sensible than you or me.
Post by: Trapezohedron on July 21, 2015, 01:44:44 am
bethsoft makes game, gets income for making the game the mod runs. Okay that's reasonable somewhat. How about the inevitable FO4SE?
Most mods run on script extenders. Shouldn't they get profits too, the same way bethsoft does if they say that THAT's the case?
Post by: Flying Dice on July 21, 2015, 02:22:23 am
Post by: Trapezohedron on July 21, 2015, 02:28:02 am
That was one of the big points that wasn't just mob ranting when the issue originally arose. It's part of the broader image of paid mods as inherent detrimental to the community. Not only do you have the outright theft, but you also have the company and paid mod makers (even otherwise legitimate ones) profiting from the work of completely unrelated modders. If it was done "properly", you'd then end up with a situation where either core essentials like SKSE/FO4SE cost money, or paid mods are inherently gimped because they can't use those resources -- no bets as to which outcome Bethesda prefers, though of course they'd settle for "blah blah we own mods because they're based on our games, you have no rights to your content".
the funny thing is that, SKSE is technically 3rd party content; it does not use the GECK or the TESCK to make it, being run as a launcher with code modified from the launcher itself and modifying/extending the programming language the gajne uses.
Script Extender is not really made by bethesda, thus.
Post by: UXLZ on July 21, 2015, 03:31:03 am
It's like Adobe owning everything made with Flash. And Photoshop.
Post by: Trapezohedron on July 21, 2015, 03:35:14 am
Also, I can't see how that works. I could understand "It's our game, blah blah, we own the rights to distribution and monetisation etc." but I just don't see how they can say. "If you make this thing, with this creation kit we provide, we OWN the thing."
It's like Adobe owning everything made with Flash. And Photoshop.
Thank good heavens for that, because otherwise we'd already have a Facebook on our hands.
aka whatever you post they technically own it, up to and including your personal data, pictures, et alia. That's technically content created BY YOU.
still this is kind of a cruel method to earn money really, capitalizing on other people's works. In certain business platforms it makes sense, but the modding scene is legally a grey area.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 04:38:21 am
Yeah I don't care. I'm not missing out on fallout 4 so some "we" you think you're part of can make a political statement. I'm here to enjoy the game. If a mod costs a single penny I won't touch it. If enough people do the same, then paid mods will fail. If people buy them, then it's a successful business model. Either way I won't care because I'll be too busy playing fallout 4. Hell I barely play any AAA games these days as it is, so if all of them switched to paid mods it wouldn't bother me.F4 may look/be awesome, but Bethesda will leverage the cash you give them to push for paid mods. Probably hard.And don't buy Bethesda's products either!Screw that, Fallout 4 looks awesome. I just won't pay for a single mod.
If we were trying to encourage more developers to make RPGs similiar to TES/FO, then yeah we should buy the game--but that isn't the problem. TES is widely-recognized as a very successful video game & an especially successful RPG. In fact it's just about the gold standard.
What we're trying to do is dissuade a company from taking a course they're dead-set on, and to do that we need to stop giving that company money.
They aren't going to starve if you don't buy the game, and I doubt they'll determine no one likes fallout anymore if their record-breaking sales are slightly lower than projections. What they would do is actually take notice.
And I don't mean this personally, but do you think you'd hold to your convictions if the author responsible for your favorite, most indispensable mod decides to monetize? It's just (4) measly dollars after all. Exceptions are too easy to make, and they're the first step.
And I don't have a 'favorite most indispensable mod'. We're talking about fucking video games, not religion. Yes I can easily say "nope not paying". I might (and often do) donate to the specific author but the instant a mod is locked behind a corporate paywall is the instant in which my wallet closes. I'll enjoy the vanilla game I paid for and then move on to whatever interests me next.
You and I both known that every "paid" mod will be pirated within weeks if not days anyway, so I'll probably go that route if it comes to it in this increasingly hypothetical scenario you're spinning. And I'll remind you that nobody even has concrete evidence that any of this is going to happen, yeah? It's all silly.
Post by: scriver on July 21, 2015, 05:30:34 am
Yeah I don't care. I'm not missing out on fallout 4 so some "we" you think you're part of can make a political statement. I'm here to enjoy the game.
What you and people like you could do, if you wanted to show solidarity with people who do care, is wait a month or even just two weeks after release before you buy it. It's the release day and first weeks' sales that matter the most in the vidya games business, so the longer you wait to buy it the more it matters. And you don't have to miss out on anything.
Post by: Putnam on July 21, 2015, 05:33:38 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 05:43:10 am
We don't even know what their plans for mods are, and mods certainly won't be available in the first two weeks. How could they be? So what exactly does waiting a week or two accomplish? Is that somehow going to show beth that we're against paid mods? I doubt it. And anyway, I'm NOT against paid mods. I don't CARE about paid mods. I simply won't participate in the system.Yeah I don't care. I'm not missing out on fallout 4 so some "we" you think you're part of can make a political statement. I'm here to enjoy the game.
What you and people like you could do, if you wanted to show solidarity with people who do care, is wait a month or even just two weeks after release before you buy it. It's the release day and first weeks' sales that matter the most in the vidya games business, so the longer you wait to buy it the more it matters. And you don't have to miss out on anything.
Steam has a system where you can buy and use cards to complete 'badges'. I don't use that either. It's stupid. I don't march in opposition of the system, I just don't use it. Sims has been doing paid mods for years and the world hasn't ended. Beth making paid mods won't end the gaming industry.
Post by: Putnam on July 21, 2015, 05:49:31 am
Post by: Trapezohedron on July 21, 2015, 06:02:03 am
And there's also the area of mod-theft.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 06:06:59 am
In any case, at least I won't be supporting it by buying mods right?
And yeah, I wasn't saying the sims thing was a good example just that it hasn't 'ruined vidya games' like you people seem to expect.
Post by: ShoesandHats on July 21, 2015, 06:08:31 am
Basically, I'm not too concerned. That said, I'd prefer everything remain free anyway. Doesn't mean I'll boycott the game I've been waiting for for 5 years, though.
Post by: Krevsin on July 21, 2015, 06:13:18 am
Post by: Graknorke on July 21, 2015, 06:14:20 am
it hasn't 'ruined vidya games' like you people seem to expect.(http://thecripplegate.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Strawman.jpg)
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 06:17:44 am
Really though, this is all idle talk until we get something concrete. We have no idea if its even happening, people are getting upset over nothing.
Post by: UXLZ on July 21, 2015, 06:46:41 am
Most modders do what they do because they like the game and want to make it better, not because they want money. All of the great mods for 3 and NV were created without the expectation of a return on their time investment. There were a few bigger mods that used the payment system on the workshop for the short time that Skyrim had it, but the vast majority of the "essential" mods remained free. I expect that there won't be very many paid mods for Fallout 4, or at least not very many successful ones. What few popular ones there are will probably be pretty high quality, or else people wouldn't pay for them.
Basically, I'm not too concerned. That said, I'd prefer everything remain free anyway. Doesn't mean I'll boycott the game I've been waiting for for 5 years, though.
Not like SkyUI's essential, that was left free though wasn't i-Oh. Right.
An even bigger kick in the teeth because Beth got to try and charge people for something to fix what they fucked up in the first place. Honestly, that's what I'm most worried about. Almost like a roundabout way of forcing people to pay for patches like DLC. I wonder if, assuming people behind whatever unnoficial patch comes out to fix Bethesda's broken game came out were willing, would Beth try to charge for something like that?
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 21, 2015, 07:06:30 am
So I must admit I lack a huge amount of rapport for those screaming mods are so vital the game is unplayably broken without them.
Post by: miauw62 on July 21, 2015, 07:07:30 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 07:15:15 am
So because you don't experience many CTDs, they don't exist?Pretty sure he was just relating his own experience. It doesn't look like he's claiming that everyone else is lying about crashes...
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 21, 2015, 07:22:28 am
Post by: UXLZ on July 21, 2015, 07:47:04 am
The real issue I'd say people have with some of these though, is that the mods were there to fix something that was a failing on the dev's part in the first place.
It's not a totally accurate comparison, but it would be like someone selling you a car and forgetting to an include an engine, or dashboard, then charging you extra to get one.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 08:04:05 am
It's not a totally accurate comparison, but it would be like someone selling you a car and forgetting to an include an engine, or dashboard, then charging you extra to get one.In the case of something like skyui its more like the manufacturer including a very basic dashboard and requiring you to pay to install a more functional one. Still seems a bit cheeky.
Post by: Arbinire on July 21, 2015, 08:15:22 am
Then we get into the issues of mod compatability, some conflicts can be game breaking, how things like refunds(which how digital media has been will probably be fought tooth and nail on the retailer side) will be handled, how some of the bigger files will cause stress on those systems and potentially fry out the hardware, etc. The whole thing screams of the Bethesda trademark "Wouldn't it be cool, if..." without the thought and foresight of potential consequences. All they're seeing is the potential dollar signs.
Post by: Retropunch on July 21, 2015, 08:30:32 am
However, when the marketing guy was saying they'd return, I imagine that they'll instead return as a sort of sponsored mod where they pick some good developers and allow them to make what are basically DLCs. These will probably be big content mods like Moonpath to Elsweyr, rather than just improvements.
Whilst this is just conjecture, I imagine they must have some sense and I doubt they'd risk sabotaging their launch (to any degree) by rolling out paid mods in the same way as before.
Post by: BurnedToast on July 21, 2015, 08:58:43 am
Well, yes, SkyUI and the unnofficial patches aren't "essential" for playing Skyrim, much in the same that having eyes isn't "essential" for playing first person shooters.
The real issue I'd say people have with some of these though, is that the mods were there to fix something that was a failing on the dev's part in the first place.
It's not a totally accurate comparison, but it would be like someone selling you a car and forgetting to an include an engine, or dashboard, then charging you extra to get one.
This is utter bullshit. I'm sorry, but it is.
I played skyrim 100% vanilla and it was an enjoyable, complete experience. Do mods help fix rough edges (like the console UI)? Yes. Do mods add interesting new things? Yes. Do mods allow you to tailor the game more how you want it? yes. Mods are a huge plus point to a game.
But skyrim was still a very good game without them. Comparing it to a car without an engine or playing without eyeballs is just such ridiculous hyperbole it makes it impossible to take you seriously.
Post by: scriver on July 21, 2015, 09:04:29 am
i foresee MAYBE 100,000 lost sales first month as a very optimistic estimate
I am only one person. I lack the charisma, energy, and skill to try to start any kind of movement. I don't have hundreds of friends or followers who care about what I say or listen to me. All I can do is try to influence people that I interact with to see things my way, whatever pitiful effect that might have in the end.
We don't even know what their plans for mods are, and mods certainly won't be available in the first two weeks. How could they be? So what exactly does waiting a week or two accomplish? Is that somehow going to show beth that we're against paid mods? I doubt it. And anyway, I'm NOT against paid mods. I don't CARE about paid mods. I simply won't participate in the system.
And I am asking you to care not on behalf of yourself, but for the sake of all of those who do care. As for whether or not it's happening, I certainly wouldn't bet against paid mods from the way it's looking now, and I don't see any reason to assume it won't.
Sims has been doing paid mods for years and the world hasn't ended. Beth making paid mods won't end the gaming industry.
I don't care about nor did I ever mention the video games industry. I care about the Bethesda games' modding community and culture.
In the case of something like skyui its more like the manufacturer including a very basic dashboard and requiring you to pay to install a more functional one. Still seems a bit cheeky.
No, it is more like the manufacturer not including a dashboard designed for use from the car I'm in. Or more precisely, a dashboard designed to be used through a controller from three metres away.
Post by: UXLZ on July 21, 2015, 09:18:31 am
I played skyrim 100% vanilla and it was an enjoyable, complete experience. Do mods help fix rough edges (like the console UI)? Yes. Do mods add interesting new things? Yes. Do mods allow you to tailor the game more how you want it? yes. Mods are a huge plus point to a game.
But skyrim was still a very good game without them. Comparing it to a car without an engine or playing without eyeballs is just such ridiculous hyperbole it makes it impossible to take you seriously.
You found vanilla Skyrim to be enjoyable and a complete experience? My own experience differed, sadly, I found it to be a shallow, boring, horrible and clunky bug-ridden mess.
Yes, it's hyperbole, but I noted that. The point of hyperbole is to try and get something across, which unfortunately it seems I failed at. I believe Scriver's example is more accurate.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 09:20:04 am
And then you say you don't care about the games industry, only bethesda games. So why would I care about you or listen to you? You don't even care about the industry, just the actions of a single studio.
Bethesda isn't unique, they aren't the only one doing the things you appear to dislike. This shit will succeed or fail based on the market. If enough people buy the paid mods, paid mods will be a thing. If not, they will not.
For what it's worth, I think corrosivechains is absolutely correct. It doesn't matter at all what they do regarding paid mods on PC because we PC users have countless ways to circumvent those paywalls. Console users (bless their little misguided hearts) are locked in to manufacturer hardware and have little choice.
Post by: Teneb on July 21, 2015, 09:22:42 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 09:24:21 am
It's not a rumor, since it was said by Zenimax's PR head himself. That said, not buying the game is probably a pretty ineffective way to prevent paid mods. Not buying paid mods, on the other hand, is actually voting with your wallet.Source on the statement?
And yes, that is what I have been saying. Don't pay for the mods. There's no need to have everyone freak the hell out about this, just don't buy them.
Post by: Teneb on July 21, 2015, 09:26:23 am
It's not a rumor, since it was said by Zenimax's PR head himself. That said, not buying the game is probably a pretty ineffective way to prevent paid mods. Not buying paid mods, on the other hand, is actually voting with your wallet.Source on the statement?
http://www.idigitaltimes.com/fallout-4-news-bethesda-says-paid-mods-will-be-back-not-soon-459701It has been posted multiple times in the thread.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 09:28:03 am
Post by: Krevsin on July 21, 2015, 09:29:54 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 09:30:50 am
It's pretty much the only thing we have to discuss with relation to Fallout 4.So we're going all chicken little because we have no other topics? oh ok.
Post by: Krevsin on July 21, 2015, 09:40:14 am
It looks like a prettier Fallout 3 with voiced protagonists, a crafting system and revamped power armor. Oh and some redesign of the FO3 aesthetic to make it more in-line with the previous fallouts.
We have no information about the story besides "You are a prewar person from near boston who is released into the wasteland 200-ish years later and there's a dog" so we can only hope that it's better than FO3's was, since there is literally nothing about it from even a semi-reliable source (unless you feel like discussing that pre-E3 leak).
The only thing we can do is sit, wait and see what happens.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 09:42:51 am
I won't preorder it, mind, because there's no reason to do so.
Post by: Wimopy on July 21, 2015, 09:46:09 am
Imagine having to buy Macromedia Flash. Now imagine, that they suddenly decide that they want all currently maintained flash games to be paid for.
Of course, you could still play the old games, but for the new ones you'd have to pay. Even if the developer only made the game to raise awareness for some cause.
Not a totally straight parallel, but I guess it's similar enough.
So the problems are:
-Having to pay for something that was previously free.
-Forcing developers to put a price tag on their product or risk being prosecuted.
-You'll get bored of the old content sooner or later, but now you'll have to pay for more additions which have appeared in the meantime.
Yeah, we really don't have anything to talk about here.
Oh, I know! Any special wildlife around Boston that would make interesting new mutated wildlife?
I'm kinda missing alligatormen, but we won't get those up north.
Real mutated rats?
Revenge of the fish?
Any special monuments that might spawn ridiculous cults?
I'm thinking that things like the Boston Tea Party or Bunker Hill may have some interesting Fallout versions.
I hope someone will bite at least one of those topics.
Post by: Krevsin on July 21, 2015, 09:48:16 am
Oh, I know! Giant crabs! Bethesda will port Mudcrabs into Fallout 4!
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 09:51:29 am
Here's a possibly good comparison:I imagine the outcome of your scenario would be me no longer playing flash games.
Imagine having to buy Macromedia Flash. Now imagine, that they suddenly decide that they want all currently maintained flash games to be paid for.
Of course, you could still play the old games, but for the new ones you'd have to pay. Even if the developer only made the game to raise awareness for some cause.
Not a totally straight parallel, but I guess it's similar enough.
So the problems are:
-Having to pay for something that was previously free.
-Forcing developers to put a price tag on their product or risk being prosecuted.
-You'll get bored of the old content sooner or later, but now you'll have to pay for more additions which have appeared in the meantime.
Yeah, we really don't have anything to talk about here.
Oh, I know! Any special wildlife around Boston that would make interesting new mutated wildlife?
I'm kinda missing alligatormen, but we won't get those up north.
Real mutated rats?
Revenge of the fish?
Any special monuments that might spawn ridiculous cults?
I'm thinking that things like the Boston Tea Party or Bunker Hill may have some interesting Fallout versions.
I hope someone will bite at least one of those topics.
But to your points:
1. The mods for FO4 were not 'previously free'. Certainly OTHER mods were and are free.
2. Not sure what you're saying here.
3. Yeah that's what DLC already does so not sure why this is horrible? It's an opt-in system. You can pay for more content or not. Nobody is forcing you to buy it.
Hm... bostonian wildlife? Mutated skunks? Massive ridiculous dogs?
Actually the zoo would be a pretty cool area I bet. Imagine a few hundred years of FEV-soaked radiation induced mutation on all manner of wildlife from a zoo, interbreeding and other insanity.
Post by: Tellemurius on July 21, 2015, 09:52:57 am
Hmmmm.... what's special about boston wildlife....So Mirelurks again? Also, Crabs People.
Oh, I know! Giant crabs! Bethesda will port Mudcrabs into Fallout 4!
Post by: scriver on July 21, 2015, 09:56:43 am
Scriver what exactly are you asking me to do here? Buying the game a month after release won't matter a damn bit as far as paid mods go. What is your objective? To hurt initial sales of fallout 4 because of a rumor on the internet about paid mods?
I'm not asking you to do anything. The point about not buying the game for a period of time after release was in response to you saying you didn't want to miss out on playing the game to make a "political statement". That making a statement doesn't mean you have to not play the game at all.
I did ask you to care for the sake of others, though, because I don't think "I don't care, so why should do something for you" is a very strong line of thought.
And then you say you don't care about the games industry, only bethesda games. So why would I care about you or listen to you? You don't even care about the industry, just the actions of a single studio.
That was my response to you putting words in my mouth and implying my position is that "Beth making paid mods will end the gaming industry", which it is not. The point you should be taking home is not "scriver doesn't care about the game industry!" but "scriver is not objecting to Bethesda going paid mods because he think it will destroy the industry but because he thinks it will destroy the Bethesda game's modding community and culture".
Post by: UXLZ on July 21, 2015, 10:01:20 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 10:01:50 am
Post by: Krevsin on July 21, 2015, 10:02:22 am
But to your points:
1. The mods for FO4 were not 'previously free'. Certainly OTHER mods were and are free.
2. Not sure what you're saying here.
3. Yeah that's what DLC already does so not sure why this is horrible? It's an opt-in system. You can pay for more content or not. Nobody is forcing you to buy it.
1. He's not reffering specifically to FO4 mods, but mods in general.
2. He's reffering to the fear that Bethesda will enforce the paid mods policy by forcing modmakers to charge for mods and that free mods will be prosecuted legally.
3. He's reffering specifically to mods that add content, not DLC.
Overall, he is not making an aggressive statement, he is trying to sum up the conclusions this argument has led to.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 10:05:17 am
1. We're specifically discussing Fallout 4 and he didn't indicate otherwise.
2. I guess that is a possibility. It could potentially torpedo their own game and earn them the ire of the entire internet (again). It will be a tough business decision on someone's part.
3. DLC is just officially produced paid mods. My point stands. Paying for more content is normal and done all the time, where that content came from means nothing to most customers. I'd have gladly paid for falskaar and other mods like it for skyrim, and I did end up donating to their authors if they had a donations page.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 21, 2015, 10:06:47 am
You found vanilla Skyrim to be enjoyable and a complete experience? My own experience differed, sadly, I found it to be a shallow, boring, horrible and clunky bug-ridden mess.Excessive hyperbole undermines your point, really. If I stub my toe and scream about how I'm dying, people would rightfully tell me to shut up. The same thing applies here. I realise how the internet seems to produce all-or-nothing statements, but too much hyperbole just makes you sound... wrong. We do get what you're getting at... we just disagree.
Yes, it's hyperbole, but I noted that. The point of hyperbole is to try and get something across, which unfortunately it seems I failed at. I believe Scriver's example is more accurate.
Hmmmm.... what's special about boston wildlife....
Oh, I know! Giant crabs! Bethesda will port Mudcrabs into Fallout 4!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on July 21, 2015, 10:07:18 am
#Radicalism
Post by: BurnedToast on July 21, 2015, 10:12:48 am
Okay but...
1. We're specifically discussing Fallout 4 and he didn't indicate otherwise.
2. I guess that is a possibility. It could potentially torpedo their own game and earn them the ire of the entire internet (again). It will be a tough business decision on someone's part.
3. DLC is just officially produced paid mods. My point stands. Paying for more content is normal and done all the time, where that content came from means nothing to most customers. I'd have gladly paid for falskaar and other mods like it for skyrim, and I did end up donating to their authors if they had a donations page.
I'm not even sure #2 is possible. They could restrict you from using the official mod tools, but if someone made a mod using their own tools they couldn't do anything about it. Of course that would mean a lot less mods, but a dedicated modder could still release stuff for free if he wanted.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 10:17:52 am
Blizzard got a popular botting program shut down on the grounds that reading information on the game from computer memory is copyright infringement. It was completely asinine but it worked.
Post by: Krevsin on July 21, 2015, 10:21:22 am
Okay but...You've entirely missed the context of the conversation.
1. We're specifically discussing Fallout 4 and he didn't indicate otherwise.
2. I guess that is a possibility. It could potentially torpedo their own game and earn them the ire of the entire internet (again). It will be a tough business decision on someone's part.
3. DLC is just officially produced paid mods. My point stands. Paying for more content is normal and done all the time, where that content came from means nothing to most customers. I'd have gladly paid for falskaar and other mods like it for skyrim, and I did end up donating to their authors if they had a donations page.
1. This conversation stopped being exclusively about Fallout 4's relationship to mods a couple of pages ago (about right after the link to the interview was posted for the first time) and moved onto paid mods and their effects on the industry, the customers and the modding scene itself.
2. It is a legitimate (if extreme) concern given the flabberghastingly stupid decisions the games industry seems to make on a regular basis. I personally think it's unlikely to come to pass, but I do not put it beyond them.
3. You misunderstand the difference between DLC and mods. DLC is produced by an official team whose members are paid to do it and who make it as either an extension of their vision or a quick way to snag some bucks for minor additions. Mods have traditionally been made by enthusiasts for free, for their own personal enjoyment of the game without expecting any financial reimbursement apart from fan donations. While this may seem like a minor difference, it is actually a huge one as it deeply affects the mindset of the developer and consequently, the final product. And thence stems the issue at the center of the paid mods debate.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 10:31:37 am
Quote
-You'll get bored of the old content sooner or later, but now you'll have to pay for more additions which have appeared in the meantime.
To the customer, so long as the content is worth the money there is no real difference. The only difference between DLC and a paid mod is on the backend, where the money goes. I didn't misunderstand anything, I know exactly what both terms entail and I never said they were the same thing.
And if we're not talking about paid mods in relation to fallout 4 then this deserves its own thread.
Post by: UXLZ on July 21, 2015, 10:35:21 am
Quote from: Forsaken
And if we're not talking about paid mods in relation to fallout 4 then this deserves its own thread.
That's up to miauw, and personally I think they're almost inseparably intertwined anyway.
Post by: Arbinire on July 21, 2015, 10:43:47 am
We should petition the government to destroy Bethesda and distribute their IPs to other companies.
#Radicalism
I'm on board with this considering how their writing has been in a constant de-evolution since Oblivion, and seeing as how they hired the same writer who did Fallout 3 I wouldn't be expecting writing even on the level of Twilight at this point. :P
And honestly I am more worried about them boxing in the community, even those who have absolutely no desire to charge for their mods, on the premise that it's to combat things like mod piracy. Steam's workshop is terrible, but obviously Valve and Bethesda have some sort of deal going where we could see that as the only "legitimate" place to get mods for future Bethesda titles, whether they're free or paid.
Post by: UXLZ on July 21, 2015, 10:47:03 am
Post by: Krevsin on July 21, 2015, 10:47:30 am
Regarding 3, I was directly responding to Wimopy's original statementIt does not matter to the customer, but it has a profound and far reaching effect on the modding community. On the outside, yes, there is no difference for the customer. However, the debate surrounding paid mods has never been exclusively about the customer (apart from paying for what has thus far been free and mod incompatibilities affecting game stability), it has also been centered about the toxic effect throwing money into the game has on the modding community as a whole.Quote-You'll get bored of the old content sooner or later, but now you'll have to pay for more additions which have appeared in the meantime.
To the customer, so long as the content is worth the money there is no real difference. The only difference between DLC and a paid mod is on the backend, where the money goes. I didn't misunderstand anything, I know exactly what both terms entail and I never said they were the same thing.
And if we're not talking about paid mods in relation to fallout 4 then this deserves its own thread.
Arguing just from the POV of the customer, while a valid approach, is in the end very narrow-sighted.
Again, this is what the debate is about. Not just the customer, but the modding community itself.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 10:49:51 am
Fair enough, but again I was responding to a point made from the customer POV. Read it.Regarding 3, I was directly responding to Wimopy's original statementIt does not matter to the customer, but it has a profound and far reaching effect on the modding community. On the outside, yes, there is no difference for the customer. However, the debate surrounding paid mods has never been exclusively about the customer (apart from paying for what has thus far been free and mod incompatibilities affecting game stability), it has also been centered about the toxic effect throwing money into the game has on the modding community as a whole.Quote-You'll get bored of the old content sooner or later, but now you'll have to pay for more additions which have appeared in the meantime.
To the customer, so long as the content is worth the money there is no real difference. The only difference between DLC and a paid mod is on the backend, where the money goes. I didn't misunderstand anything, I know exactly what both terms entail and I never said they were the same thing.
And if we're not talking about paid mods in relation to fallout 4 then this deserves its own thread.
Arguing just from the POV of the customer, while a valid approach, is in the end very narrow-sighted.
Again, this is what the debate is about. Not just the customer, but the modding community itself.
"You'll get bored of the old content sooner or later, but now you'll have to pay for more additions which have appeared in the meantime."
Yes, that applies to DLC and mods alike. I'm flattered that everyone is rushing over each other to tell me how wrong and narrow minded i am but my statement was in response to a specific comment, not the discussion in general.
Post by: Sergius on July 21, 2015, 10:53:09 am
Also, Crabs People.
You mean the Gomorrah workers?
Post by: notquitethere on July 21, 2015, 10:54:32 am
Post by: Krevsin on July 21, 2015, 10:55:29 am
Post by: UXLZ on July 21, 2015, 10:56:20 am
Also, Crabs People.
You mean the Gomorrah workers?
No no, those are people with crabs, not people that are crabs.
Post by: Iceblaster on July 21, 2015, 10:57:18 am
Also, Crabs People.
You mean the Gomorrah workers?
No no, those are people with crabs, not people that are crabs.
Must've been that cancelled 'Sodom' casino.
:P
/badjoke
Post by: Krevsin on July 21, 2015, 11:01:11 am
Pray tell, what is this curious creature, I do not believe I've seen it before. Could it be you have gotten your hands on some exclusive FO4 concept art?Hmmmm.... what's special about boston wildlife....
Oh, I know! Giant crabs! Bethesda will port Mudcrabs into Fallout 4!Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sergius on July 21, 2015, 11:03:33 am
Also Krevsin, pretty sure that's from Fallout 3.
Post by: Iceblaster on July 21, 2015, 11:05:14 am
Post by: Sergius on July 21, 2015, 11:07:04 am
Post by: Krevsin on July 21, 2015, 11:09:31 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 11:10:13 am
Post by: notquitethere on July 21, 2015, 11:22:12 am
Seriously though, I'd love to see intelligent mirelurks.There were intelligent deathclaws in Fallout 2, and a sinister rat king that could talk so it's not wholly out of the question. You could meet a society of intellectually enchanced mirelurks: local human village leader wants them wiped out as an abomination, but you can arrange a peace treaty between them after a young human-mirelurk forbidden love couple beseech you to see beyond anti-mutant crustacean prejudice.
Post by: Teneb on July 21, 2015, 11:31:45 am
It's not too much of a stretch, either. The wasteland survival guide quest chain in 3 had you investigate a mirelurk nest. They are, at worst, as intelligent as some primate species.Seriously though, I'd love to see intelligent mirelurks.There were intelligent deathclaws in Fallout 2, and a sinister rat king that could talk so it's not wholly out of the question. You could meet a society of intellectually enchanced mirelurks: local human village leader wants them wiped out as an abomination, but you can arrange a peace treaty between them after a young human-mirelurk forbidden love couple beseech you to see beyond anti-mutant crustacean prejudice.
Post by: Sergius on July 21, 2015, 11:33:10 am
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 21, 2015, 11:34:14 am
It's not a rumor, since it was said by Zenimax's PR head himself. That said, not buying the game is probably a pretty ineffective way to prevent paid mods. Not buying paid mods, on the other hand, is actually voting with your wallet.
snip
And yes, that is what I have been saying. Don't pay for the mods. There's no need to have everyone freak the hell out about this, just don't buy them.
I have my doubts about not buying the mods being more effective.
It costs them almost NOTHING to start reeling in cash from mods. Salaries for execs making deals, and server traffic. Pennies.
Consequently, it'd take pennies to get into the black with the mods, and from then on it's a free ride on the gravy train.
If on the other hand we freak out and don't buy their games, they are losing money. (corporations subscribe to 'lost revenue' after all)
It's similar to why deleting/reversing recommendations on Skyrim hurt them last time. A 16-point drop from 96% positive to 80% positive results in lost sales.
But to have the desired effect we'd have to 1: be vocal about it & 2:actually make a dent.
So freak out, don't buy it.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 21, 2015, 11:35:09 am
Is Daily Life with Mirelurk Girl a book you can find in the wasteland?Seriously though, I'd love to see intelligent mirelurks.There were intelligent deathclaws in Fallout 2, and a sinister rat king that could talk so it's not wholly out of the question. You could meet a society of intellectually enchanced mirelurks: local human village leader wants them wiped out as an abomination, but you can arrange a peace treaty between them after a young human-mirelurk forbidden love couple beseech you to see beyond anti-mutant crustacean prejudice.
Post by: Graknorke on July 21, 2015, 11:38:04 am
Is Daily Life with Mirelurk Girl a book you can find in the wasteland?Not in polite company you can't.
Post by: Krevsin on July 21, 2015, 11:39:20 am
Crustaceo and Juliet.Seriously though, I'd love to see intelligent mirelurks.There were intelligent deathclaws in Fallout 2, and a sinister rat king that could talk so it's not wholly out of the question. You could meet a society of intellectually enchanced mirelurks: local human village leader wants them wiped out as an abomination, but you can arrange a peace treaty between them after a young human-mirelurk forbidden love couple beseech you to see beyond anti-mutant crustacean prejudice.
I LOVE IT.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 11:40:13 am
So freak out, don't buy it.If they actually announce the whole paid mod thing, I'll consider it. Right now you're freaking out over your interpretation of a vague statement in an article on the internet.
If they announce that paid mods will be mandatory and that nobody else is allowed to make mods, I'll probably give the game a skip. We'll wait and see.
Now isn't the time to become all militant in my opinion. I mean you can do whatever you want of course, I just won't be marching with you.
Post by: Teneb on July 21, 2015, 11:40:28 am
You can easily find it's more popular sequel, The Lusty Mirelurk Maid.Is Daily Life with Mirelurk Girl a book you can find in the wasteland?Not in polite company you can't.
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 21, 2015, 11:46:23 am
Now isn't the time to become all militant in my opinion. I mean you can do whatever you want of course, I just won't be marching with you.
The more militancy, the sooner, the better. Just how it is.
I doubt they'll be stupid enough to give more of a warning than they already have, I'm kind of surprised he said what he did.
Post by: Tellemurius on July 21, 2015, 12:06:04 pm
Look like CrabAlso, Crabs People.
You mean the Gomorrah workers?
No no, those are people with crabs, not people that are crabs.
Talk like People
Post by: Zangi on July 21, 2015, 12:11:37 pm
Mandatory pay-for-mods is not going to be a thing in FO4, but someone in the future is going to have that bright idea. One step at a time...So freak out, don't buy it.If they actually announce the whole paid mod thing, I'll consider it. Right now you're freaking out over your interpretation of a vague statement in an article on the internet.
If they announce that paid mods will be mandatory and that nobody else is allowed to make mods, I'll probably give the game a skip. We'll wait and see.
Now isn't the time to become all militant in my opinion. I mean you can do whatever you want of course, I just won't be marching with you.
As for the vague statement, eh, its going to mean they'll make a concrete announcement after the game is released and before the mod tools come out. Its much easier to ask for forgiveness, after all the initial buyers lapse on the refund game time. (For reference, I'm personally waiting till the sale anyways.)
Post by: notquitethere on July 21, 2015, 12:12:11 pm
Post by: Bohandas on July 21, 2015, 12:13:31 pm
I agree, the best policy is to wait. For both of those reasons.Mandatory pay-for-mods is not going to be a thing in FO4, but someone in the future is going to have that bright idea. One step at a time...So freak out, don't buy it.If they actually announce the whole paid mod thing, I'll consider it. Right now you're freaking out over your interpretation of a vague statement in an article on the internet.
If they announce that paid mods will be mandatory and that nobody else is allowed to make mods, I'll probably give the game a skip. We'll wait and see.
Now isn't the time to become all militant in my opinion. I mean you can do whatever you want of course, I just won't be marching with you.
As for the vague statement, eh, its going to mean they'll make a concrete announcement after the game is released and before the mod tools come out. Its much easier to ask for forgiveness, after all the initial buyers lapse on the refund game time. (For reference, I'm personally waiting till the sale anyways.)
Post by: Arbinire on July 21, 2015, 12:34:14 pm
Post by: Tellemurius on July 21, 2015, 12:38:22 pm
why would the love trist be between a human female and mirelurk male? That's both racist and sexist. Check your privileges you ableistsGo mod it then to whatever you want :P
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 12:39:18 pm
why would the love trist be between a human female and mirelurk male? That's both racist and sexist. Check your privileges you ableistsThat is clearly a mirelurk female pictured. You can tell by the engorged gill folds indicating arousal.
Post by: UXLZ on July 21, 2015, 12:40:34 pm
why would the love trist be between a human female and mirelurk male? That's both racist and sexist. Check your privileges you ableistsGo mod it then to whatever you want :P
$4.99 for the Mirelurk gender of your choice, up to and including "Robot."
Post by: notquitethere on July 21, 2015, 12:45:19 pm
Post by: miauw62 on July 21, 2015, 01:28:35 pm
Post by: SealyStar on July 21, 2015, 01:52:29 pm
deathclaw genitals 99.99$*Brahmin genitals
Post by: Flying Dice on July 21, 2015, 02:05:41 pm
Now isn't the time to become all militant in my opinion. I mean you can do whatever you want of course, I just won't be marching with you.
The more militancy, the sooner, the better. Just how it is.
I doubt they'll be stupid enough to give more of a warning than they already have, I'm kind of surprised he said what he did.
This exactly. Twice now they've stated that they think that it was only a bad idea because Skyrim had an established modding community, and that they want to try again in future, once immediately after the retraction, and now again in relation to FO4. They'd have to be supremely stupid to come out and say that they're going to try paid mods for FO4 after what happened last time.
What I've said and am still predicting is that they're going to hold off until people can't refund the game and the modding tools are close to release (which is incidentally a second reason for them to hold off -- paid mods are only negative publicity with no profit if people aren't actually making mods). That's why it's important to start now on our end. Denting first-week sales sends a message.
Post by: Graknorke on July 21, 2015, 02:11:09 pm
*Realistic brahmin genitalsdeathclaw genitals 99.99$*Brahmin genitals
Post by: Puzzlemaker on July 21, 2015, 02:11:19 pm
I mean, some of the mods they have going in Skyrim really are amazing. I can see paying some money for them.
Post by: miauw62 on July 21, 2015, 02:16:50 pm
Post by: Retropunch on July 21, 2015, 02:38:59 pm
I think really it just needs to be pushed in the path of good modders being official DLCs, and I think that's the closest we're going to get. In a way, I could really welcome that. Things like Moonpath were awesome, and if paying a few credits would create more stuff like that then I'd be quite happy Obviously, they'd need to handle it well - If they started snapping up every popular mod that'd be incredibly annoying, but handled correctly it might be actually good.
Post by: Flying Dice on July 21, 2015, 02:46:49 pm
I think most people have no qualms with stuff like Moonpath to Elseweyr being paid, an example can be found in M&Bs latest DLC, which did turn out pretty shitty, but most importantly people were excited over them.Mount&Musket/Napoleonic Wars is actually a perfect example of how a great mod can make the transition into DLC without introducing this heaping shitfest that Bethesda tried. It's got to be a vetted, invitation-only thing or it flat out won't work.
Post by: UXLZ on July 21, 2015, 02:48:35 pm
Quote from: Retro
but handled correctly it might be actually good.
And there lies the problem. What publisher would you actually trust to handle it correctly? The only one I'd even consider off the top of my head is CDPR, and even then I doubt I'd go with it.
Post by: Retropunch on July 21, 2015, 03:08:56 pm
Quote from: Retrobut handled correctly it might be actually good.
And there lies the problem. What publisher would you actually trust to handle it correctly? The only one I'd even consider off the top of my head is CDPR, and even then I doubt I'd go with it.
Very true. I'd trust Bethesda more than most, just because I think that if they were vetting content (which I'm sure is the way they'd go) they'd have to be pretty picky to make sure stuff lived up to their brand (which is really their lifeblood, especially now they're trying to branch out to new IP).
I still don't think it'll be great, and I think we'll find all the big expansions that used to be free will now be paid for, but I can certainly see that there's a possibility that it'd allow for more regular/varied content DLC for those that can afford it.
Post by: miauw62 on July 21, 2015, 03:10:39 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 21, 2015, 03:14:21 pm
To be blunt, nothing that we as a community do - or any internet community does - will ever, ever make a dent in their sales. If you think it would, you vastly underestimate how many people buy their games. Sure, if they tried to roll out a skyrim style paid-for-mods thing just before launch that could make a dent, but a few thousand people not buying in the first week will make 0 difference - especially as they'll probably relent the week after. And Bethesda will know that.Yup.
I think really it just needs to be pushed in the path of good modders being official DLCs, and I think that's the closest we're going to get. In a way, I could really welcome that. Things like Moonpath were awesome, and if paying a few credits would create more stuff like that then I'd be quite happy Obviously, they'd need to handle it well - If they started snapping up every popular mod that'd be incredibly annoying, but handled correctly it might be actually good.
Consider... the majority of people who played bethseda games never touched a mod at all.
Only 14% of Skyrim's sales were on PC. (http://www.statisticbrain.com/skyrim-the-elder-scrolls-v-statistics/)
A similiar situation for Fallout 3. (http://www.vgchartz.com/game/6992/fallout-3/) 4.62m on xbox, 3.63m on ps3, 0.93 on pc. ~10%.
So the majority of people who buy bethseda games don't do it on PC. If every PC user united and refused to buy Fallout 4 for PC, assuming the trend stays true, it'd certainly be a dent, but that's not likely to happen.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 21, 2015, 03:20:13 pm
Post by: UXLZ on July 21, 2015, 03:27:51 pm
Post by: umiman on July 21, 2015, 03:41:40 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 21, 2015, 03:44:45 pm
If you do find evidence otherwise, post it in here; this was just a quick google of "skyrim total sales" and "fallout 3 total sales". If it's misleading in that way I'll add a correction.
Post by: Graknorke on July 21, 2015, 03:45:50 pm
Post by: Graknorke on July 21, 2015, 04:08:21 pm
And hell, played in the last two weeks is 0.9 million, which is over a quarter of the sales reported by statisticbrain. I seriously doubt that more than a quarter of the people who own Skyrim have played it that recently.
EDIT: I mean, if we assume that it was because of the free weekend and statisticbrain is perfectly accurate and counts ONLY Steam, and given this quote from the about page:
Quote
If the game had a free weekend recently, it will see a jump in "owned" for roughly 25 million users.then that means there have been 6 million/25 million = 24% of users who logged in during that weekend who haven't since. Again, completely unreasonable to think.
Post by: Arbinire on July 21, 2015, 04:26:23 pm
That said, here in the Bay12 forums we're a pretty small community. If you really wanted to "rally the troops" concerning this, the best channels would be Reddit, 4chan, and other hivemind communities with vastly larger numbers of people.
Post by: Retropunch on July 21, 2015, 04:36:07 pm
Post by: Bohandas on July 21, 2015, 07:27:16 pm
Quote from: Retrobut handled correctly it might be actually good.
And there lies the problem. What publisher would you actually trust to handle it correctly? The only one I'd even consider off the top of my head is CDPR, and even then I doubt I'd go with it.
Very true. I'd trust Bethesda more than most, just because I think that if they were vetting content (which I'm sure is the way they'd go) they'd have to be pretty picky to make sure stuff lived up to their brand
Like they'd make sure the interface didn't work, that kind of thing
Post by: Graknorke on July 21, 2015, 07:35:41 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on July 21, 2015, 07:54:34 pm
Paid mods just make it worse. The minute some asshole in Marketing thinks that they can get third parties to make fixes for their games at no cost to the company and then turn around and make pure profit selling those fixes to the community, do you really think they're going to back down until someone starts applying hammers to kneecaps?
@sales numbers: Yeah, seriously. We knew that wasn't accurate months ago, why is it still being cited?
Post by: UXLZ on July 21, 2015, 08:18:14 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 21, 2015, 10:24:12 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on July 22, 2015, 01:48:03 am
A year after that, they'll the "no seriously this time you guys" final mission mod for $29.99. You'll have to pay an extra $1.99 for each character you want to survive, and $3.99 if you want to be able to port your save over to the next game in the series, Eldar Scrawls IX: Craftworld Crossover, which will ship without a way to access your inventory or enter buildings.
Post by: Sergarr on July 22, 2015, 02:54:26 am
Post by: Krevsin on July 22, 2015, 03:09:44 am
Post by: Retropunch on July 22, 2015, 03:42:12 am
The only way this can work is for pure content mods, and ones that are heavily vetted/invite only. I'm never one to underestimate the stupidity of others, but I think that they'd realise that they're digging themselves a 6 foot rectangular hole if they start doing stuff like paid for patches (I'd bet there would be a few legal challenges as well).
Really though, things have started improving for the community - steam backtracked on paid mods (which we all suspected was coming) and also implemented refunds, kickstarters are being brought to court for not fulfilling their promises and developers are using 'no DLCs!!' as a selling point in their games. So it's not all terrible.
Post by: UXLZ on July 22, 2015, 04:06:38 am
Hurray for salty bitternes, the solution to everything.
It's not salty bitterness, so much as the truth. What FD and Sergarr are sayng might be hyperbole (or is it..?) but it is definitely a fact that large corporations will stoop to basically anything if it earns them lots of money. Take cigarettes, they KNEW how harmful they were to people long before it came out to the public.
Post by: Krevsin on July 22, 2015, 04:13:33 am
No, it is entirely salty bitternes.Hurray for salty bitternes, the solution to everything.
It's not salty bitterness, so much as the truth. What FD and Sergarr are sayng might be hyperbole (or is it..?) but it is definitely a fact that large corporations will stoop to basically anything if it earns them lots of money. Take cigarettes, they KNEW how harmful they were to people long before it came out to the public.
It is getting riled up about an scenario several "if"s away and treating it like it is happening right now. We do not know how paid mods will be reinstalled. Anyone who claims to know otherwise based on "Corporations are stupid and like money" instead of known factors and statements is making shit up and everyone knows it. We only know that Bethesda is intending to pursue that path again. We do not know how or when.
Paid mods are a genuine concern and should be discussed. However, claiming that paid mods will not only succeed but also ruin the games industry even further and lead into absurd bollocks like paid patches is taking things too far and devalues the debate as a whole.
Post by: UXLZ on July 22, 2015, 04:25:27 am
Quote from: Kresvin
Anyone who claims to know otherwise based on "Corporations are stupid and like money" instead of known factors and statements is making shit up and everyone knows it. We only know that Bethesda is intending to pursue that path again. We do not know how or when.
Except "Corporations are stupid and like money" IS a known factor, because time and time again multiple corporations over multiple fields have business have shown they're willing to stoop to practically everything to make an extra few $$$s.
Quote from: Kresvin
However, claiming that paid mods will not only succeed but also ruin the games industry even further and lead into absurd bollocks like paid patches is taking things too far and devalues the debate as a whole.
Ruin the games industry further? Yes, actually, they will, because they'll ruin the modding scene, which is [i[part[/i] of the games industry. It won't be bad and in fact I'll support it myself (if grudgingly since "give an inch, take a mile) if they decide to take the "Certain high-quality mods like Path to Elsewyr are individually selected and worked on by Bethesda in tandem with the modders to bring them up to DLC standard."
That is, actually vet their stuff properly.
If it's anything like what they attempted with Skyrim though, it'll be terrible.
Paid patches might seem like absurd bollocks, but tell me, is it really such a stretch to imagine? Of course, I doubt they'd do it on PC, since that would make pretty much everyone take up the black flag, but on the poor consoles?
See, they won't do it openly, they'll do it sneakily. They won't sell you the patch itself, they'll sell you what you need to get the patch, or have it work. Or maybe they'll take up "Premium patching". "Free patching" fixes critical game-destroying bugs, and "Premium patching" does all the rest. Hey, it's just like a bit of mod DLC.
Post by: Krevsin on July 22, 2015, 04:38:09 am
Except "Corporations are stupid and like money" IS a known factor, because time and time again multiple corporations over multiple fields have business have shown they're willing to stoop to practically everything to make an extra few $$$s.While corporations being stupid and liking money is a known factor, it is far from the only factor. Bethesda has tried paid mods and got burned. Expect things to change the next time around. To what extent, I do not know nor dare I predict because I do not consider myself versed enough in corporatethink.
Ruin the games industry further? Yes, actually, they will, because they'll ruin the modding scene, which is [i[part[/i] of the games industry. It won't be bad and in fact I'll support it myself (if grudgingly since "give an inch, take a mile) if they decide to take the "Certain high-quality mods like Path to Elsewyr are individually selected and worked on by Bethesda in tandem with the modders to bring them up to DLC standard."Destroying the mod community is a real threat and something that paid mods are likely to do and have almost done in the brief time they existed. However, it relies on them being a success which is far from a given.
That is, actually vet their stuff properly.
If it's anything like what they attempted with Skyrim though, it'll be terrible.
Paid patches might seem like absurd bollocks, but tell me, is it really such a stretch to imagine? Of course, I doubt they'd do it on PC, since that would make pretty much everyone take up the black flag, but on the poor consoles?You are basing your argument on conjecture. No, it is not such a strech to imagine paid patches. However, it is also not such a strech to imagine that Russia and the US will go to full-blown nuclear war tommorow.
See, they won't do it openly, they'll do it sneakily. They won't sell you the patch itself, they'll sell you what you need to get the patch, or have it work. Or maybe they'll take up "Premium patching". "Free patching" fixes critical game-destroying bugs, and "Premium patching" does all the rest. Hey, it's just like a bit of mod DLC.
Post by: UXLZ on July 22, 2015, 05:07:25 am
Quote from: Kresvin
While corporations being stupid and liking money is a known factor, it is far from the only factor. Bethesda has tried paid mods and got burned. Expect things to change the next time around. To what extent, I do not know nor dare I predict because I do not consider myself versed enough in corporatethink.
Well, yeah. Corporations might be greedy and soulless but (usually) aren't insane. Beth will try something different. Maybe we'll be lucky and it's a method that's actually good. (The vetting thing I mentioned.)
Quote from: Kresvin
Destroying the mod community is a real threat and something that paid mods are likely to do and have almost done in the brief time they existed. However, it relies on them being a success which is far from a given.
Paid mods would never succeed on PC, but I'm honestly not so sure about console. I do think, they do that vetting thing, then they would.
Quote from: Kesvin
You are basing your argument on conjecture. No, it is not such a strech to imagine paid patches. However, it is also not such a strech to imagine that Russia and the US will go to full-blown nuclear war tommorow.
That's probably a teensy weensy bit more of a stretch, but sure. I'm just basing what I think and expect on past and current events. Also, Risk-reward.
Post by: Krevsin on July 22, 2015, 05:22:52 am
Back on topic, has anyone found any delicious Fallout 3 mirelurk slashfiction?
Post by: scriver on July 22, 2015, 05:28:20 am
No, it is entirely salty bitternes.Hurray for salty bitternes, the solution to everything.
It's not salty bitterness, so much as the truth. What FD and Sergarr are sayng might be hyperbole (or is it..?) but it is definitely a fact that large corporations will stoop to basically anything if it earns them lots of money. Take cigarettes, they KNEW how harmful they were to people long before it came out to the public.
It is getting riled up about an scenario several "if"s away and treating it like it is happening right now. We do not know how paid mods will be reinstalled. Anyone who claims to know otherwise based on "Corporations are stupid and like money" instead of known factors and statements is making shit up and everyone knows it. We only know that Bethesda is intending to pursue that path again. We do not know how or when.
Paid mods are a genuine concern and should be discussed. However, claiming that paid mods will not only succeed but also ruin the games industry even further and lead into absurd bollocks like paid patches is taking things too far and devalues the debate as a whole.
So we should discuss it, but only from the perspective of the viewpoint you favour?
It is no more salty bitterness than thinking the opposite is juvenile naivete.
Post by: Krevsin on July 22, 2015, 05:38:10 am
No, I am saying we should discuss it without devolving into panicky statements and predictions based on a lack of information.No, it is entirely salty bitternes.Hurray for salty bitternes, the solution to everything.
It's not salty bitterness, so much as the truth. What FD and Sergarr are sayng might be hyperbole (or is it..?) but it is definitely a fact that large corporations will stoop to basically anything if it earns them lots of money. Take cigarettes, they KNEW how harmful they were to people long before it came out to the public.
It is getting riled up about an scenario several "if"s away and treating it like it is happening right now. We do not know how paid mods will be reinstalled. Anyone who claims to know otherwise based on "Corporations are stupid and like money" instead of known factors and statements is making shit up and everyone knows it. We only know that Bethesda is intending to pursue that path again. We do not know how or when.
Paid mods are a genuine concern and should be discussed. However, claiming that paid mods will not only succeed but also ruin the games industry even further and lead into absurd bollocks like paid patches is taking things too far and devalues the debate as a whole.
So we should discuss it, but only from the perspective of the viewpoint you favour?
It is no more salty bitterness than thinking the opposite is juvenile naivete.
I am not saying we should not worry about paid mods or that everyone is wrong and that my viewpoint is the only one that is right. Feel free to express your concerns and worries, but please do not try to frame conjecture and worst case scenarios as a given.
Basically, make this an actual debate instead of wildly throwing around predictions and claiming them to be facts. Paid mods is an important topic. Treat it as such.
Post by: UXLZ on July 22, 2015, 05:40:13 am
Post by: Krevsin on July 22, 2015, 05:44:55 am
Post by: Graknorke on July 22, 2015, 05:49:26 am
Post by: notquitethere on July 22, 2015, 05:59:47 am
Back on topic, has anyone found any delicious Fallout 3 mirelurk slashfiction?Ugh. Why did I search and find this (http://games.adult-fanfiction.org/story.php?no=600086902). That was not very romantic.
Quote
But a tug on the front of her Pre-War Parkstroller Outfit roused her.
She had heard of the creatures before her but a stranger’s watered down account could not compare to the true terror of having a Mirelurk King being so near. Much less two. The pair of them made short work of her clothing, tearing it off of her furiously. They had her bared before them in a ripe, young display of human flesh; soft and yielding.
It goes much as you'd imagine. I don't recommend.
Post by: Wimopy on July 22, 2015, 06:06:47 am
Some google searching shows that the New England Aquarium and the Museum of Science are in Boston, which might be interesting places to explore. Especially the Aquarium, if it's filled with all manners of mutated wildlife and not just mirelurks.
Poor Moira though. There are intelligent mirelurks out there and she had to find info only on the stupid DC ones.
Oh yeah, Moira. I hope the Wasteland Survival Guide returns.
*urge to join back into the paid mod topic: Resisted*
-Notquitethere posted while I was writing
Oh my Atom, what in the Glow did I just read?
Post by: Krevsin on July 22, 2015, 06:12:19 am
"Something like this has happened before, the people responsible have stated interest in trying it again, therefore there is a good chance it will happen."Eh, fair enough.
I still don't see a point in rehashing the paid mods argument when it's been pretty much done (paid mods are bad, if you agree boycott Bethesda by not buying FO4 or the paid mods for it).
Well, that was... a thing.Back on topic, has anyone found any delicious Fallout 3 mirelurk slashfiction?Ugh. Why did I search and find this (http://games.adult-fanfiction.org/story.php?no=600086902). That was not very romantic.QuoteBut a tug on the front of her Pre-War Parkstroller Outfit roused her.
She had heard of the creatures before her but a stranger’s watered down account could not compare to the true terror of having a Mirelurk King being so near. Much less two. The pair of them made short work of her clothing, tearing it off of her furiously. They had her bared before them in a ripe, young display of human flesh; soft and yielding.
It goes much as you'd imagine. I don't recommend.
I was kinda joking when I posted that request.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to find and apply some brain bleach.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 22, 2015, 07:21:37 am
Back on topic, has anyone found any delicious Fallout 3 mirelurk slashfiction?Ugh. Why did I search and find this (http://games.adult-fanfiction.org/story.php?no=600086902). That was not very romantic.QuoteBut a tug on the front of her Pre-War Parkstroller Outfit roused her.
She had heard of the creatures before her but a stranger’s watered down account could not compare to the true terror of having a Mirelurk King being so near. Much less two. The pair of them made short work of her clothing, tearing it off of her furiously. They had her bared before them in a ripe, young display of human flesh; soft and yielding.
It goes much as you'd imagine. I don't recommend.
When aliens destroy humanity, this will be exhibit A in the justification.
Post by: Arbinire on July 22, 2015, 07:57:44 am
The Horse Armor DLC. Many of the same arguments were made then as are being made now. And even then there were people who took the stance of "you're being ridiculous, taking it to that extreme, it wont ever be like that, just look at the backlash it's already caused." 10 years later and now we have companies like EA and Ubisoft selling us games piecemeal. Just like those "hyperbolic" and "panicky" theorists predicted.
No, the points they're bringing up wont happen Tomorrow. But being complacent and dismissive will ensure that they'll become reality at some later tomorrow. There is precedent. This is how we went from free television with broadcasting paid for by advertising, to paying for cable packages with 10 minute long commercial breaks.
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 22, 2015, 08:17:09 am
Post by: Krevsin on July 22, 2015, 08:30:08 am
It might seem a bit ridiculous to jump to those conclusions but there is a precedent for it...within the gaming industry...from this very same company.You missed my points entirely.
The Horse Armor DLC. Many of the same arguments were made then as are being made now. And even then there were people who took the stance of "you're being ridiculous, taking it to that extreme, it wont ever be like that, just look at the backlash it's already caused." 10 years later and now we have companies like EA and Ubisoft selling us games piecemeal. Just like those "hyperbolic" and "panicky" theorists predicted.
No, the points they're bringing up wont happen Tomorrow. But being complacent and dismissive will ensure that they'll become reality at some later tomorrow. There is precedent. This is how we went from free television with broadcasting paid for by advertising, to paying for cable packages with 10 minute long commercial breaks.
I'm not saying paid mods are not a concern and will not happen while sneering at "panicky" and "hyperbolic" theorists. I am saying that being panicky and hyperbolic will only devalue the argument against paid mods since panicky and hyperbolic arguments are easily dissmissed.
If the only counterargument to something is publicaly percieved as "a bunch of nutters chanting 'the end is nigh'", there effectively is no counterargument as people generally do not want to be associated with a bunch of nutters chanting 'the end is nigh'.
So... erm... Anyone else hoping to see mutated cranberry fields? That's a Massachusetts thing.Speaking of Moira, a lot of people seem to think she is annoying. I cannot for the life of me see why, as she is one of the few characters I actually remember from FO3 and I found her questline to be some of the most fun I had in the whole game.
Some google searching shows that the New England Aquarium and the Museum of Science are in Boston, which might be interesting places to explore. Especially the Aquarium, if it's filled with all manners of mutated wildlife and not just mirelurks.
Poor Moira though. There are intelligent mirelurks out there and she had to find info only on the stupid DC ones.
Oh yeah, Moira. I hope the Wasteland Survival Guide returns.
Post by: BurnedToast on July 22, 2015, 08:33:50 am
It might seem a bit ridiculous to jump to those conclusions but there is a precedent for it...within the gaming industry...from this very same company.
The Horse Armor DLC. Many of the same arguments were made then as are being made now. And even then there were people who took the stance of "you're being ridiculous, taking it to that extreme, it wont ever be like that, just look at the backlash it's already caused." 10 years later and now we have companies like EA and Ubisoft selling us games piecemeal. Just like those "hyperbolic" and "panicky" theorists predicted.
I'd argue that while there is certainly some bad, money grab DLC, overall the addition of DLC is a good thing and games are better off for it and that the hyperbolic and panicky theorists were mostly (but not completely) wrong.
The only truly effective solution is to harass developers and modders until they're terrified of even mentioning the idea publicly.
No, just... no. Do you realize what you're saying?
The only solution is voting with your wallet. Don't buy pay mods. Don't buy games that have them. If enough people agree with you, the idea *will* be shelved. If enough people don't care and buy them anyway that means you are in the minority.
Why do you think you should be allowed to force your minority opinion on the majority of people? Why do you think because you happen to not like something, people who DO like it and DO want it can't be allowed to have it? Why should the angry minority be allowed to dictate what the market can sell and buy just because they can shout really loud?
Edit: sorry if it's sarcasm and I missed it :(
Post by: scriver on July 22, 2015, 08:39:03 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 22, 2015, 08:41:36 am
Post by: Krevsin on July 22, 2015, 08:45:09 am
Or at least 90s PC gaming.
My point is, DLC in and of itself is not bad. The more extraneous shit (cosmetics, extra characters) is annoying, but the big DLC (additional storylines, large swathes of new content) is something that PC gaming has known for a loooong time under the moniker "Expansion Pack". DLC is basically just a new coat of paint for a known concept.
No, what is annoying/downright criminal about DLC is the way it is handled, with large DLCs going so far as to being announced and sold as early as pre-release, provoking a very reasonable question of "why wasn't this included with the core game?". To my knowledge, no publisher has yet answered that question satisfactorily.
Post by: Retropunch on July 22, 2015, 08:50:15 am
I agree, there's no need to be super militant (and it won't get us anywhere), but DLC is exactly as bad as we thought it would be. Day1 and on-disk DLC and content that should be in game is (luckily becoming 'was') rife. and the fact that developers are going out of there way to say that they won't have DLC is pretty much proof of how bad it is.
Voting with your wallet is good but so is expressing that you dislike something. Whilst I wouldn't say that harassing developers is a good way to go, certainly an email/letter stating why you're annoyed is fine way to express your unhappiness.
Post by: BurnedToast on July 22, 2015, 08:55:42 am
No, what is annoying/downright criminal about DLC is the way it is handled, with large DLCs going so far as to being announced and sold as early as pre-release, provoking a very reasonable question of "why wasn't this included with the core game?". To my knowledge, no publisher has yet answered that question satisfactorily.
Because it's not finished?
When a game is "done" there's usually still a month+ of time left before it's actually sold. What should they do with all the various people who aren't involved in the final bit of polishing and distribution? Put them to work on an unrelated project? Let them sit idle? Fire them?
Instead they get them working on DLC. Sometimes it's finished in time for release and it becomes the dreaded "day 1" DLC, other times it's part of the "season pass" that's released over time as they finish it.
Yes, they could just give the day 1 DLC away for free (and sometimes they do as a preorder bonus or a code in the box or whatever) but if it's something extra that's not something that's part of the original game and is being developed later, I don't feel like it's some huge moral failing to charge extra for it.
BT, Did you really just try to argue that DLC was good!? That *was* sarcasm right?
I agree, there's no need to be super militant (and it won't get us anywhere), but DLC is exactly as bad as we thought it would be. Day1 and on-disk DLC and content that should be in game is (luckily becoming 'was') rife. and the fact that developers are going out of there way to say that they won't have DLC is pretty much proof of how bad it is.
Voting with your wallet is good but so is expressing that you dislike something. Whilst I wouldn't say that harassing developers is a good way to go, certainly an email/letter stating why you're annoyed is fine way to express your unhappiness.
Nope, I'm serious. DLC is, like krevsin said, more or less the modern equivalent of expansion packs (and we could have a whole thread about advantages and disadvantages comparing the two). As for day1 DLC, see above.
And yeah, a calmly written email/letter is fine.. actually that's a very good way of doing it. Harassing them till they are " terrified of even mentioning the idea publicly." is not.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 22, 2015, 08:55:59 am
Edit: Gha, ninja'd.
Post by: Krevsin on July 22, 2015, 09:17:30 am
BT, Did you really just try to argue that DLC was good!? That *was* sarcasm right?Yes, day 1 and on-disk DLC is bad. It's horrible. Likewise forced microtransactions.
I agree, there's no need to be super militant (and it won't get us anywhere), but DLC is exactly as bad as we thought it would be. Day1 and on-disk DLC and content that should be in game is (luckily becoming 'was') rife. and the fact that developers are going out of there way to say that they won't have DLC is pretty much proof of how bad it is.
Voting with your wallet is good but so is expressing that you dislike something. Whilst I wouldn't say that harassing developers is a good way to go, certainly an email/letter stating why you're annoyed is fine way to express your unhappiness.
Extraneous bullshit like A Slightly Better Gun or Flame Paintjob for Armour (and yes, even the infamous Horse Armour) is incredibly annoying and stupid and I cannot for the life of me fathom why anyone would buy that shit in anything but a MP game.
But the big DLCs, the ones which add a lot of content, whole new questlines, locations and characters, those are a bit more of a gray area for me. On the one hand, you have stuff like Old World Blues for NV, The Brightmore Witches for Dishonored or Burial at Sea for Bioshock Infinite are DLCs I'd gladly pay good money for because they add a lot of new content, interesting storylines and are just overall, worth the money invested. On the other hand there's stuff like Project Anchorage for Fallout 3 or Dawnguard for Skyrim which... well they aren't terribly good, let's be honest.
I guess it depends on the DLC in question and there's no easy formula, but rest assured that on-disk DLC, microtransactions and Day 1 DLC (at least, the ones you have to pay for) are despicable, vile monstrosities that deserve all the unabashed loathing they get.
I understand, but why advertise the DLC so heavily before the game is released if it is not even done yet?No, what is annoying/downright criminal about DLC is the way it is handled, with large DLCs going so far as to being announced and sold as early as pre-release, provoking a very reasonable question of "why wasn't this included with the core game?". To my knowledge, no publisher has yet answered that question satisfactorily.
Because it's not finished?
When a game is "done" there's usually still a month+ of time left before it's actually sold. What should they do with all the various people who aren't involved in the final bit of polishing and distribution? Put them to work on an unrelated project? Let them sit idle? Fire them?
Instead they get them working on DLC. Sometimes it's finished in time for release and it becomes the dreaded "day 1" DLC, other times it's part of the "season pass" that's released over time as they finish it.
Yes, they could just give the day 1 DLC away for free (and sometimes they do as a preorder bonus or a code in the box or whatever) but if it's something extra that's not something that's part of the original game and is being developed later, I don't feel like it's some huge moral failing to charge extra for it.
There's literally no reason aside from this asinine idea that preorders are what determine how well a game will do financially and the only way you can achieve the most preorders is to seemingly hold a whole segment of the game hostage unless people pre-order the game. This is what advertising DLC before the game is even released basically looks like, holding a segment of the game hostage.
I do not mind big DLC releases, I do not mind a DLC schedule (hell, if anything I welcome the latter as a guarantee that a game will keep receiving official support for a while after release), I don't even mind the idea of season passes.
What I do mind and find downright criminal is the marketing for these things starting waaay before the game is released, thus basically leaving not only me but large swathes of gamers worldwide feeling like a part of the game is being held ransom. It's an appaling business strategy and it only reflects negatively on the publisher.
Just release the DLC a week or a month after release. It'll be finished by then and instead of people thinking you're holding a piece of game hostage, they will think you have a plan for supporting the game for a longer time. It's a win-win.
Post by: Retropunch on July 22, 2015, 09:21:02 am
DLC is also a far, far cry from expansion packs of old. This has been rehashed multiple times, but if you take something like Lord of Destruction and compare it to Horse Armour or Mass Effects atrocious DLCs then I don't think they're even vaguely comparable. Obviously there's some DLC that works (as mentioned in the comment below), but as a whole, it's only contributed to awful practices of cutting off content to ship as DLCs or with the bare minimum of content.
To be honest though, I think companies are learning. They know how much goodwill they lost with DLCs (Mass effect as a shining example) and they also know the same thing will happen with paid mods.
Post by: Graknorke on July 22, 2015, 09:21:09 am
I don't feel like it's some huge moral failing to charge extra for it.Well then there is a clear difference of opinion that will not be overcome by posting anything.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 22, 2015, 09:28:20 am
It does seem that way. The sense of entitlement is overwhelming.I don't feel like it's some huge moral failing to charge extra for it.Well then there is a clear difference of opinion that will not be overcome by posting anything.
Post by: Krevsin on July 22, 2015, 09:33:05 am
DLC is also a far, far cry from expansion packs of old. This has been rehashed multiple times, but if you take something like Lord of Destruction and compare it to Horse Armour or Mass Effects atrocious DLCs then I don't think they're even vaguely comparable. Obviously there's some DLC that works (as mentioned in the comment below), but as a whole, it's only contributed to awful practices of cutting off content to ship as DLCs or with the bare minimum of content.Not all DLC is equal and Horse Armor is not Burial At Sea, nor is Mass Effect 3 Buy This DLC If You Want A Sense Of Closure the same as Old World Blues.
DLC is a strange beast. Not all of it is bad and it should not all be treated the same. Like I said, you have your extraneous cosmetic bullshit and then you have your big sprawling DLCs that add a whole bunch of content that is actually worth the investment.
And this might be just me, but I always found that the argument that "they're removing content from the actual game to sell as DLC later on" is something that is very hard to prove. I mean the marketing sure makes it look that way, but you often cannot tell unless some dedicated person rifles through the gamefiles for any leads or a corporate whistleblower leaks certain documents. It's a mess and it's a mess that is not only hard to prove but even furthered by the marketing for these things.
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 22, 2015, 09:36:39 am
*she's
I wasn't being serious, but I'm glad my sarcasm is that smooth.
There are plenty of people who think that if the majority disagrees with them, the majority doesn't know what's good for themselves.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 22, 2015, 09:38:51 am
Like I said, you have your extraneous cosmetic bullshit and then you have your big sprawling DLCs that add a whole bunch of content that is actually worth the investment.Some people have different tastes and priorities than you though. I think the cosmetic DLC for Europa Universalis 4 is silly but I've a friend who really gets into the history and stuff, and he LOVES the cosmetic unit packs and songs. The best part about DLC is it's optional, so if you object to it you can just not purchase it and it's not harming anyone.
*she'sShe then. whatever. not as if that matters.
There are plenty of people who think that if the majority disagrees with them, the majority doesn't know what's good for themselves.There are also plenty of people who think that if the majority agrees with them, they must be correct. Neither statement is true.
Post by: Krevsin on July 22, 2015, 09:46:51 am
Yes, that is entirely correct. Cosmetic DLC is something I personally find to be extraneous bullshit at best and a pestilence at worst, but in the end it is entirely optional and does not contain game-changing additions.Like I said, you have your extraneous cosmetic bullshit and then you have your big sprawling DLCs that add a whole bunch of content that is actually worth the investment.Some people have different tastes and priorities than you though. I think the cosmetic DLC for Europa Universalis 4 is silly but I've a friend who really gets into the history and stuff, and he LOVES the cosmetic unit packs and songs. The best part about DLC is it's optional, so if you object to it you can just not purchase it and it's not harming anyone.
Post by: BurnedToast on July 22, 2015, 09:47:06 am
I don't agree at all. Unless it's a one project studio, they shuffle people around to other projects. That's how it's always worked in the gaming industry and any other software industry. It's not some sort of altruistic move to keep poor Timmy employed - it's just that they know that if they release something along side the game people will feel they have to buy it all to get the complete package.
DLC is also a far, far cry from expansion packs of old. This has been rehashed multiple times, but if you take something like Lord of Destruction and compare it to Horse Armour or Mass Effects atrocious DLCs then I don't think they're even vaguely comparable. Obviously there's some DLC that works (as mentioned in the comment below), but as a whole, it's only contributed to awful practices of cutting off content to ship as DLCs or with the bare minimum of content.
To be honest though, I think companies are learning. They know how much goodwill they lost with DLCs (Mass effect as a shining example) and they also know the same thing will happen with paid mods.
Just think of the season pass as an expansion pack that's released in chunks as it's finished - it usually contains all the story DLCs together for roughly the same price as an expansion pack would cost. If you take, for example, the 4 story DLCs for new vegas that's something like 20 - 40 hours of content, new items, new levels, new perks...etc. It's a similar amount of content for a similar price.
I do agree the cosmetic DLCs and cheat DLCs are stupid, but nobody is making you buy those and you typically don't miss anything by skipping them.
As for reassigning the team - that makes no sense. They know the DLC is going to be made, why reassign the team for a month to some other project, then reassign them again back to the first game to make DLC? Just get them started on the DLC right away, get it finished quicker. It's better for everyone, including the consumer.
I don't feel like it's some huge moral failing to charge extra for it.Well then there is a clear difference of opinion that will not be overcome by posting anything.
I'm curious, would you rather the DLC didn't exist at all, or do you just feel entitled to get it for free because they happened to start working on it between the time the game was "finished" and the time it was put up for sale?
Post by: Krevsin on July 22, 2015, 09:51:39 am
Edit: So turns out I am a moron and Blade Runner does not take place in Chicago. Oh hwell.
Post by: scriver on July 22, 2015, 10:11:45 am
As stated, Day1 and "on-disk" DLC are often additional products they've had people working on once their other assignments were finished. The idea that you're somehow entitled to getting these products for free is ridiculous. Time, effort, and cost went into producing them. What company would pay people to develop more products just to give them away?
[...]
It does seem that way. The sense of entitlement is overwhelming.
Bolded: And nobody ever suggested that. Stop strawmanning people.
Oh, and congratulations on being the first to drop the "entitlement!" buzzword.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 22, 2015, 10:16:58 am
Er...As stated, Day1 and "on-disk" DLC are often additional products they've had people working on once their other assignments were finished. The idea that you're somehow entitled to getting these products for free is ridiculous. Time, effort, and cost went into producing them. What company would pay people to develop more products just to give them away?
[...]
It does seem that way. The sense of entitlement is overwhelming.
Bolded: And nobody ever suggested that. Stop strawmanning people.
Oh, and congratulations on being the first to drop the "entitlement!" buzzword.
I said that after reading this:
but DLC is exactly as bad as we thought it would be. Day1 and on-disk DLC and content that should be in game is (luckily becoming 'was') rife.Emphasis mine.
But alright. Maybe I misunderstood? Looked like he said day 1 and on-disk DLC content should be part of the released game.
Post by: Retropunch on July 22, 2015, 10:23:25 am
Quote
As for reassigning the team - that makes no sense. They know the DLC is going to be made, why reassign the team for a month to some other project, then reassign them again back to the first game to make DLC? Just get them started on the DLC right away, get it finished quicker. It's better for everyone, including the consumerThis, and my bit about cut content is aimed at on-disk DLC. They're basically saying 'here's the game, we've included it all, but if you actually want all of it it's actually more'.
Mass Effect 3 was terrible for this - the From Ashes DLC was already on disk and contained a major story which added a lot to the game/plot. Taking it out seemed very, very much an afterthought to grab more cash (otherwise they wouldn't have included it on disk!) and that's the kind of thing that really grates. Then there was the 'ending' DLC ontop of that.
No, I don't expect them to just give me things for free, but I certainly don't expect them to keep withholding major bits of the game from me until I pay more for them.
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 22, 2015, 10:25:52 am
Speaking of Moira, a lot of people seem to think she is annoying. I cannot for the life of me see why, as she is one of the few characters I actually remember from FO3 and I found her questline to be some of the most fun I had in the whole game.I imagine it's her high/squeaky voice and indefatigable optimism. People love to hate on those.
The only solution is voting with your wallet. Don't buy pay mods. Don't buy games that have them. If enough people agree with you, the idea *will* be shelved. If enough people don't care and buy them anyway that means you are in the minority.
Why do you think you should be allowed to force your minority opinion on the majority of people? Why do you think because you happen to not like something, people who DO like it and DO want it can't be allowed to have it? Why should the angry minority be allowed to dictate what the market can sell and buy just because they can shout really loud?
That's a strange direction to take the argument. This seems like one of the few times the vocal, outraged group could be the majority.
Oi, forsaken, please stop with the 'militant' crap. The only suggestion of harassing people was made facetiously, mockingly, and the amount of spin in calling organizing/encouraging people to boycott beth over this 'militant' is rather insulting.
The first time was fine, I'm game when it comes to portraying myself in a negative light from time to time, but when people are taking it seriously and it causes misunderstandings I've got a problem.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 22, 2015, 10:32:46 am
Now isn't the time to become all militant in my opinion. I mean you can do whatever you want of course, I just won't be marching with you.
The more militancy, the sooner, the better. Just how it is.
I doubt they'll be stupid enough to give more of a warning than they already have, I'm kind of surprised he said what he did.
This thread has been all over the place, some people calling for boycotts of everything bethesda but somehow I should have read your mind and known you were joking.
As I said before, I completely agree that not all DLC is created and some is great (burial at Sea), but there's a lot that isn't. I, and I'm sure few others, have problem with quality DLC. The problem is Day1 DLC and 'DLC that's really just finishing the game off' - there's obviously good and bad, and I'm talking about the bad.QuoteAs for reassigning the team - that makes no sense. They know the DLC is going to be made, why reassign the team for a month to some other project, then reassign them again back to the first game to make DLC? Just get them started on the DLC right away, get it finished quicker. It's better for everyone, including the consumerThis, and my bit about cut content is aimed at on-disk DLC. They're basically saying 'here's the game, we've included it all, but if you actually want all of it it's actually more'.
Mass Effect 3 was terrible for this - the From Ashes DLC was already on disk and contained a major story which added a lot to the game/plot. Taking it out seemed very, very much an afterthought to grab more cash (otherwise they wouldn't have included it on disk!) and that's the kind of thing that really grates. Then there was the 'ending' DLC ontop of that.
No, I don't expect them to just give me things for free, but I certainly don't expect them to keep withholding major bits of the game from me until I pay more for them.
Fair enough, and if they are withholding major parts of the game that would be a problem. But how do you know they are? Are you privy to the production schedule? What if they had a separate team dedicated to producing that From the Ashes DLC and it took nothing away from the team developing the game?
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 22, 2015, 10:41:16 am
But then the harassing bit was misinterpreted & the meaning got futzed up and suddenly there are -militants- in the thread.
:I
Sorry about that, & thank you
Post by: scriver on July 22, 2015, 10:46:31 am
Er...As stated, Day1 and "on-disk" DLC are often additional products they've had people working on once their other assignments were finished. The idea that you're somehow entitled to getting these products for free is ridiculous. Time, effort, and cost went into producing them. What company would pay people to develop more products just to give them away?
[...]
It does seem that way. The sense of entitlement is overwhelming.
Bolded: And nobody ever suggested that. Stop strawmanning people.
Oh, and congratulations on being the first to drop the "entitlement!" buzzword.
I said that after reading this:but DLC is exactly as bad as we thought it would be. Day1 and on-disk DLC and content that should be in game is (luckily becoming 'was') rife.Emphasis mine.
But alright. Maybe I misunderstood? Looked like he said day 1 and on-disk DLC content should be part of the released game.
Part of the game that you pay for. That does not equal for free.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 22, 2015, 10:53:39 am
Yeah, I adopted it for that post because the argument was closing, at least we knew what it meant in that context & technically it could fit so "fuckit I'll be 'militant'".No worries, honest misunderstanding on my part.
But then the harassing bit was misinterpreted & the meaning got futzed up and suddenly there are -militants- in the thread.
:I
Sorry about that, & thank you
Part of the game that you pay for. That does not equal for free.If it is additional content which isn't part of the game but developed to be sold separately, why should it be included in the game?
Say I am a writer for mass effect 3. I finished the primary writing work ages before the art guys probably because art takes forever. So they could either
A. Put me on a new game
B. Get me working on writing for a DLC
C. Let me go/stop paying me
If they come to me after I finish my mass effect writing and say "Hey guy we're planning to release some DLC for the game as well. Why don't you write for that?
Okay, so now they're still paying me and I am working on writing for the DLC. Happy for me, I'm getting paid. Happy for them, they have a second product in the pipeline and are efficiently using resources (me). The art guys finish up their stuff. Management has the same choice. The art guys start working on DLC art for the stuff I'm writing. Level design, voice acting, scene setting, modelling, etc. Now we're all being paid to develop a second product while the main game is being finished up, bugs being squashed, etc.
And hey, the main game was delayed. Well that sucks but my stuff and art guy's stuff is already done. We finish up the DLC we're working on early enough so they decide to offer it at the same time as the main game.
So tell me why, in this scenario, you should get the DLC as part of the main game? It is a second product developed while the first product finished.
I'm not saying this is what happened, but it could and often does. Just because DLC is available on day 1 doesn't mean it stole anything from the main game.
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 22, 2015, 11:08:03 am
Post by: scriver on July 22, 2015, 11:19:29 am
my bit about cut content is aimed at on-disk DLC.
I mean, there is precedent for gamers getting militant about this exact issue and throwing tantrums and harassing people. Why not assume the worst? People have been doing that with everyone else involved.
Yes, assuming people here on this forum is about to form a terrorist group is definitely the same as assuming a business will attempt to make profit.
Post by: Graknorke on July 22, 2015, 11:20:12 am
I'm curious, would you rather the DLC didn't exist at all, or do you just feel entitled to get it for free because they happened to start working on it between the time the game was "finished" and the time it was put up for sale?If they were making the DLC because there were idle resources, there was no extra cost. If it was ready in time to be distributed with the main game there's no reason to charge for it.
Post by: Retropunch on July 22, 2015, 11:32:50 am
If you bundle something on physical media that I've paid for, and then lock it off from me unless I pay you more money, I'm going to be pissed because it seems like you've just decided to cut out a bit of something that was obviously already ready and bundled with the game. I understand and agree with your arguments that it could be that it could just be a poorly managed schedule, but guess who's fault that is? not mine.
It's how it appears to the consumer that matters. In the case of the From Ashes DLC, it looked very, very much like it had been cut (javik had been woven into the plot quite heavily) and so to me, that's exactly what it was.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 22, 2015, 11:40:14 am
What? You think those artists and writers don't get paid? Or they're getting paid to just sit around? No, either they work on DLC or they work on a new game or (more often) they're simply let go for the time being. I know an animator for a large studio and between projects he has no job. They don't just pay him to sit there waiting.I'm curious, would you rather the DLC didn't exist at all, or do you just feel entitled to get it for free because they happened to start working on it between the time the game was "finished" and the time it was put up for sale?If they were making the DLC because there were idle resources, there was no extra cost. If it was ready in time to be distributed with the main game there's no reason to charge for it.
Any time there is work being done there are costs accrued, even if the work being done is unpaid the equipment costs money to operate and the building costs money to keep open. There's no such thing as 'no extra cost'. And if the work being done wasn't part of the initial costing for the project, then there would have to be a very compelling reason to just give it away for free.
When you guy buy a car do you ever hear "Well we had a few slow days so we had one of our shop techs upgrade the engine and put on some aftermarket parts. No additional cost because he was idle anyway." Not a perfect analogy but the situation doesn't lend itself well to real world analogies.
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 22, 2015, 11:55:31 am
When did I say that? "Militant" does not always mean terrorism. People use it very often to describe atheists who are dicks on social media.
Post by: Graknorke on July 22, 2015, 12:41:17 pm
What? You think those artists and writers don't get paid? Or they're getting paid to just sit around?Misread what someone posted earlier. Thought that someone said that it was indeed the latter.
When you guy buy a car do you ever hear "Well we had a few slow days so we had one of our shop techs upgrade the engine and put on some aftermarket parts. No additional cost because he was idle anyway." Not a perfect analogy but the situation doesn't lend itself well to real world analogies.I think that a design would be a better analogy than a physical product, since that is more in line with what a game is. Maybe an architect or something. You ask for a house designing and she takes a quote, gives a time limit of a couple of months and then gets working. 7 weeks in she calls up and says she's done and will meet up with you at the agreed end date. She shows you the design and it looks nice enough, but then she tells you that she's made some improvements in the last week. And since the thing was finished a week ago, the improvements cost extra.
Yes, she can offer you that older one as the final product, but surely you couldn't help feeling short-changed by the whole thing. It's easy to go from "doing extra after you're finished" to "declaring an arbitrarily early 'finished' point" without actually changing any of what happens.
Post by: Sergius on July 22, 2015, 01:09:25 pm
When did I say that? "Militant" does not always mean terrorism. People use it very often to describe atheists who are dicks on social media.
Exactly. Atheist "dicks" == suicide bombers, that's what's implied. "Hey you guys don't just shut up, you're militant."
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 22, 2015, 01:46:43 pm
Post by: Sergius on July 22, 2015, 02:56:49 pm
Word origin: "engaged in warfare".
EDIT: In the case you described it is used specifically by people using a double standard, where they consider the same behavior in themselves to be "moderate", but on the opposite side "militant".
Post by: Sergarr on July 22, 2015, 03:18:21 pm
As stated, Day1 and "on-disk" DLC are often additional products they've had people working on once their other assignments were finished. The idea that you're somehow entitled to getting these products for free is ridiculous. Time, effort, and cost went into producing them. What company would pay people to develop more products just to give them away?I'll just quote myself:
I'm just waiting until the inevitable moment they start to sell patches. Or even better, subscription payment for access to patches. With 24/7 DRM that automatically uninstalls all your patches the moment you go offline.
After all, people put time, effort and cost into producing patches;
what company would just give them away?
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 22, 2015, 03:24:01 pm
Quote from: dictionary.reference.com
vigorously active and aggressive, especially in support of a cause
Quote from: Mirriam-Webster
aggressively active (as in a cause)
Quote from: American Heritage Dictionary
Having a combative character; aggressive, especially in the service of a cause
Quote from: Wiktionary
Aggressively supporting of a political or social cause; adamant, combative [from 17th c.]
But you know what? If you want to keep pretending this definition doesn't exist (or all these dictionary authors are being hypocrites somehow) so you can feel smarter than me then go ahead. This BS semantic tangent is somehow more inane than arguing about video games, and I am done with it.
Post by: Sergius on July 22, 2015, 03:39:59 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Was the above post militant? Y/N
Post by: Graknorke on July 22, 2015, 03:42:38 pm
Post by: Bohandas on July 22, 2015, 03:44:30 pm
Why do you think you should be allowed to force your minority opinion on the majority of people? Why do you think because you happen to not like something, people who DO like it and DO want it can't be allowed to have it? Why should the angry minority be allowed to dictate what the market can sell and buy just because they can shout really loud?
Personally I believe the market should be regulated wih an iron fist at the end of a strong arm
Post by: Flying Dice on July 22, 2015, 04:21:51 pm
Quote from: dictionary.reference.comvigorously active and aggressive, especially in support of a causeQuote from: Mirriam-Websteraggressively active (as in a cause)Quote from: American Heritage DictionaryHaving a combative character; aggressive, especially in the service of a causeQuote from: WiktionaryAggressively supporting of a political or social cause; adamant, combative [from 17th c.]
But you know what? If you want to keep pretending this definition doesn't exist (or all these dictionary authors are being hypocrites somehow) so you can feel smarter than me then go ahead. This BS semantic tangent is somehow more inane than arguing about video games, and I am done with it.
If you're going to be pedantic, at least do it in a way that doesn't make you look silly.
Quote from: dictionary.reference.com
militant
[mil-i-tuh nt]
adjective
1. vigorously active and aggressive, especially in support of a cause:
militant reformers.
2. engaged in warfare; fighting.
noun
3. a militant person.
4. a person engaged in warfare or combat.
Origin of militant
1375-1425; late Middle English < Latin mīlitant- (stem of mīlitāns), present participle of mīlitāre to serve as a soldier. See militate, -ant
Quote from: Merriam-Webster
militant
adjective mil·i·tant \-tənt\
: having or showing a desire or willingness to use strong, extreme, and sometimes forceful methods to achieve something
Full Definition of MILITANT
1: engaged in warfare or combat : fighting
2: aggressively active (as in a cause) : combative <militant conservationists> <a militant attitude>
Quote from: Oxford
militant
Syllabification: mil·i·tant
Pronunciation: /ˈmiləd(ə)nt/
Definition of militant in English:
adjective
Combative and aggressive in support of a political or social cause, and typically favoring extreme, violent, or confrontational methods: a militant nationalist
Quote from: American Heritage
mil·i·tant
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adj.
1. Fighting or warring.
2. Having a combative character; aggressive, especially in the service of a cause: a militant political activist.
n.
A fighting, warring, or aggressive person or party.
[Middle English, from Old French, from Latin mīlitāns, mīlitant-, present participle of mīlitāre, to serve as a soldier; see MILITATE.]
Cutting out large chunks of dictionary entries doesn't make you right.
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 22, 2015, 04:34:20 pm
Post by: Neonivek on July 22, 2015, 04:36:35 pm
Why do you think you should be allowed to force your minority opinion on the majority of people? Why do you think because you happen to not like something, people who DO like it and DO want it can't be allowed to have it? Why should the angry minority be allowed to dictate what the market can sell and buy just because they can shout really loud?
Personally I believe the market should be regulated wih an iron fist at the end of a strong arm
I really do agree with this. it NEEDS to be heavily regulated and there needs to be statements on what can and cannot be monetized to prevent something like "Pay for cheats"...
Post by: Sergarr on July 22, 2015, 04:45:02 pm
The best way of regulating for shit like this is doing it yourself by developing a gaming hygiene, a la eating hygiene - like, for instance, not pre-ordering games on empty promises, researching the game extensively before buying and etc. Not doing that should be seen as not washing your hands before eating.Why do you think you should be allowed to force your minority opinion on the majority of people? Why do you think because you happen to not like something, people who DO like it and DO want it can't be allowed to have it? Why should the angry minority be allowed to dictate what the market can sell and buy just because they can shout really loud?
Personally I believe the market should be regulated wih an iron fist at the end of a strong arm
I really do agree with this. it NEEDS to be heavily regulated and there needs to be statements on what can and cannot be monetized to prevent something like "Pay for cheats"...
This is the only real way to stop this industrial disease from spreading.
Post by: Retropunch on July 22, 2015, 05:34:27 pm
They... used to do that, you know. Back in the day where online connections for games wasn't a thing, they would release multiple version of a game as actual individual things should the first version be buggy. Look at Rayman 2: The Great Escape- no two versions were alike. The N64 one came first, followed by the PC version which improved the music. The Dreamcast version then expanded on some of the various models and shortened up the game a little. The PS1 version expanded on the Dreamcast version, adding a few new changes. The PS2 version changed the overworld completely. All of these were sold as individual games.
Didn't Street Fighter, for a good while, sell various "complete" or "ultimate" editions of their games that included various changes and bugfixes to improve the balance of each years after the initial release? Only recently did they make a statement that they won't do this for the next one.
In the first case though these were just for different platforms - which I can take a little bit better. The Street Fighter/Japanese games penchant for doing ultimate/complete whatever versions is definitely annoying, and it's something I'm really glad hasn't come over in a big way.
I don't think we're at risk of that really, and I think that they'd have a very, very hard time selling something like that. My fear is just that the devs start snapping up every good mod and making it paid for.
Post by: UXLZ on July 22, 2015, 05:35:22 pm
Also, remember that with Javik it wasn't just Artists and Designers who would have had to work on him before the game was launched, he wasn't just some cosmetic tat.
Post by: BurnedToast on July 22, 2015, 05:40:50 pm
The only solution is voting with your wallet. Don't buy pay mods. Don't buy games that have them. If enough people agree with you, the idea *will* be shelved. If enough people don't care and buy them anyway that means you are in the minority.
Why do you think you should be allowed to force your minority opinion on the majority of people? Why do you think because you happen to not like something, people who DO like it and DO want it can't be allowed to have it? Why should the angry minority be allowed to dictate what the market can sell and buy just because they can shout really loud?
That's a strange direction to take the argument. This seems like one of the few times the vocal, outraged group could be the majority.
if the vocal, outraged group was the majority then very few people would buy the payed DLC (and sales for the game it's self would almost certainly be much worse) and the company would quickly drop the issue - there would be absolutely no need to get outraged at all - it would be a self correcting problem.
Instead we get literal death threats against mod makers to try and punish them and scare them into silence, because I think most of the vocally outraged people know that the truth is most gamers just don't care very much, and a significant number of them would support pay mods.
Why do you think you should be allowed to force your minority opinion on the majority of people? Why do you think because you happen to not like something, people who DO like it and DO want it can't be allowed to have it? Why should the angry minority be allowed to dictate what the market can sell and buy just because they can shout really loud?
Personally I believe the market should be regulated wih an iron fist at the end of a strong arm
I really do agree with this. it NEEDS to be heavily regulated and there needs to be statements on what can and cannot be monetized to prevent something like "Pay for cheats"...
If someone wants to pay extra for cheats, why do you care? Don't buy them, play the game normally, problem solved.
Yeah, buying cheats would be stupid as hell and I think people who bought them are kind of missing the point - but it's their money. Why do you feel like you have to deny them that chance just because you don't want to buy them?
Post by: AlleeCat on July 22, 2015, 05:53:20 pm
I find that hard to believe, actually. I doubt they would be able to get away with it if they're barely able to get away with paid mods.
Although, WoW gets an "expansion" pretty much every year now. It's basically a patch you have to pay for.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 22, 2015, 05:54:56 pm
Although, WoW gets an "expansion" pretty much every year now. It's basically a patch you have to pay for.A 'patch' with a bunch of content included, but yeah we can be silly and call apples walnuts.
Post by: AlleeCat on July 22, 2015, 06:02:20 pm
Post by: UXLZ on July 22, 2015, 06:06:00 pm
Quote from: Allee
I find that hard to believe, actually. I doubt they would be able to get away with it if they're barely able to get away with paid mods.
I'm sure people would have said the same thing about paid mods back when DLC was first introduced. Baby steps, baby steps.
Post by: Retropunch on July 22, 2015, 06:13:24 pm
if the vocal, outraged group was the majority then very few people would buy the payed DLC (and sales for the game it's self would almost certainly be much worse) and the company would quickly drop the issue - there would be absolutely no need to get outraged at all - it would be a self correcting problem.
Instead we get literal death threats against mod makers to try and punish them and scare them into silence, because I think most of the vocally outraged people know that the truth is most gamers just don't care very much, and a significant number of them would support pay mods.
I think very few people do buy DLC comparatively (look at titanfall for instance - the DLC uptake was atrocious, even with sales). The biggest problem is that companies always want to make as much money as possible, so they're always going to squeeze as much as they can. If usual DLC isn't working, and sales drop too low (or they just get greedy) then it's going to be tempting for them to start holding back more important things behind a pay wall.
Yes, they could drop the issue because sales of DLC aren't working, but the shareholders aren't going to be at all pleased with that at all - they see it as a continuing revenue stream. The other option then is to be more grabbing with it - and I firmly believe that's what will happen.
Whilst I abhor death threats and harassment, we definitely need to voice our displeasure as consumers when we can. Voting with your wallet helps, but as does making it known that any action like mentioned above would drastically hurt their brand.
Post by: UXLZ on July 22, 2015, 06:15:08 pm
Still, slopes can be quite slippery. Pray we don't trip.
Post by: Flying Dice on July 22, 2015, 08:08:06 pm
Doesn't make me wrong either. I was never arguing that was the sole definition, I've acknowledged there are other definitions since the beginning of this. I didn't feel the need to add the rest when it was beside my point, but I guess I should have anticipated the obvious nitpick.
Or they could be implying the dictionary definition of "vigorously active and aggressive, especially in support of a cause"? I understand that definition probably came from a dilution of the more violent meaning, but it is a completely normal thing to criticize someone's behavior as militant without implying that they are creating terrorist cells or something.
You argued that it was derived from "the more violent meaning" and yet at the same time suggested that it was could and should be used in explicitly nonviolent circumstances. You were the one to bring up definitions, you don't get to step back and say that that's nitpicking or pedantry just because someone called you out. Given that the word literally derives from "military service" and is still used today in reference to individuals actively engaged in warfare or other kinds of violence, I'd say that there are two possible conclusions to be drawn:
People who use "militant" to refer to people they disagree with or dislike are a) ignorant and misusing language then hiding behind a shield labelled "descriptivism", or b) know exactly what they're implying and use it as a smear to attack people they disagree with.
Hell, even in the civil rights we have a good example of "militant" being used in a way that's descriptive of behavior rather than an attack on individuals: during the course of the British feminist movement, militant feminists were the ones who were setting off bombs and physically attacking people. Nobody called the non-violent members of the movement militant unless they were trying to defame their character.
It's not as if there aren't perfectly good words that don't carry the connotations of violence. Heck, the definitions you cherrypicked were full of them: "aggressive", "extreme", &c. Or, as I prefer for "militant" atheists, "counterproductive assholes".
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 22, 2015, 08:14:59 pm
Guild Wars 2 gets about the same amount of content every few months for free.guild wars 2 gets most of its money selling silly stuff ingame. Wow sells a few mounts but its primary cash flow is subscription based rather than microtransactions
Post by: Flying Dice on July 22, 2015, 08:20:48 pm
Yeesh, yeah. They've got the microtransactions down to an art. I knew a guildie who spent, no joke, something like $200 on dye packs.Guild Wars 2 gets about the same amount of content every few months for free.guild wars 2 gets most of its money selling silly stuff ingame. Wow sells a few mounts but its primary cash flow is subscription based rather than microtransactions
Post by: Sergius on July 22, 2015, 08:29:03 pm
Doesn't make me wrong either. I was never arguing that was the sole definition, I've acknowledged there are other definitions since the beginning of this. I didn't feel the need to add the rest when it was beside my point, but I guess I should have anticipated the obvious nitpick.Or they could be implying the dictionary definition of "vigorously active and aggressive, especially in support of a cause"? I understand that definition probably came from a dilution of the more violent meaning, but it is a completely normal thing to criticize someone's behavior as militant without implying that they are creating terrorist cells or something.
You argued that it was derived from "the more violent meaning" and yet at the same time suggested that it was could and should be used in explicitly nonviolent circumstances. You were the one to bring up definitions, you don't get to step back and say that that's nitpicking or pedantry just because someone called you out.
It's the second time in a week that someone declared "I'm done with your bullshit!" and stormed out slamming the door after a couple of posts that disagreed with them, I'm starting to thing there's something in the water or something.
Post by: ShoesandHats on July 22, 2015, 09:13:10 pm
This.
None of this is whatsoever relevant to the topic of the thread and it's getting unnecessarily heated.
Post by: UXLZ on July 22, 2015, 09:18:09 pm
*shades on*
Militant.
Do we actually have any concrete information on the size/scale of FO4's worldmap yet?
Post by: AlleeCat on July 22, 2015, 09:32:28 pm
Well if they make most of their money on subscriptions, why do they need to charge an extra $50 a year for an expansion.Yeesh, yeah. They've got the microtransactions down to an art. I knew a guildie who spent, no joke, something like $200 on dye packs.Guild Wars 2 gets about the same amount of content every few months for free.guild wars 2 gets most of its money selling silly stuff ingame. Wow sells a few mounts but its primary cash flow is subscription based rather than microtransactions
Post by: ShoesandHats on July 22, 2015, 09:33:47 pm
Do we actually have any concrete information on the size/scale of FO4's worldmap yet?
There was an interview where (I think, at least) he said it was about as big as Skyrim's map minus the bigass unclimbable mountains blocking the way. We know it includes Concord, Boston (obviously), and it'll probably go at least as far north as Rockport judging by the inclusion of Motif #1 (http://Motif1.jpg) in the concept art (http://i1.wp.com/www.onlysp.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Fallout-4-Concept-Art-02.jpg). I don't know if there's any concrete evidence of how far south it'll go, but it seems likely that I495 will be used as a rough boundary, given what we know.
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 22, 2015, 11:03:27 pm
One could almost say that they're getting.
*shades on*
Militant.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
snip
if the vocal, outraged group was the majority then very few people would buy the payed DLC (and sales for the game it's self would almost certainly be much worse) and the company would quickly drop the issue - there would be absolutely no need to get outraged at all - it would be a self correcting problem.
Instead we get literal death threats against mod makers to try and punish them and scare them into silence, because I think most of the vocally outraged people know that the truth is most gamers just don't care very much, and a significant number of them would support pay mods.
snip
If someone wants to pay extra for cheats, why do you care? Don't buy them, play the game normally, problem solved.
Yeah, buying cheats would be stupid as hell and I think people who bought them are kind of missing the point - but it's their money. Why do you feel like you have to deny them that chance just because you don't want to buy them?
Well, humoring you, because it ruins the well for everyone else.
It isn't just adding in extra paid mods, it's divvying up the community and putting some/many behind a price-tag.
That may be the modder's choice, but don't expect a warm welcome from your friends if you start demanding recompense for playing minecraft with them, or deleting your old building from the server town unless they pay up.
We're still really not interested in paid mods being introduced for FO4 either because if they don't implement it just right they'll undo the strengths established in their previous games' modding scenes.
Mainly by having a strong community based on cooperation and enthusiasm- that foundation will change with the introduction of profit.
It becomes a merchant-buyer interaction instead of friend-friend, fellow modders are competition, Bethesda could be a tool to bring to bear and when money's involved tempers get toxic. What were wishes and requests become expectations and demands. Threats and disputes follow.
I don't want it first & foremost because it will poison the community.
I've gotta go to bed, so if you wanted more specific forecasts/doomsayings/consequences you'll have to wait till I'm awake (and poke me) or find someone else for the time being.
Oh, and it isn't really self-correcting if it isn't very popular. It costs them nothing to start cashing in on mods, so we'd have to make a dent in their sales to make them unhappy. And the game is going to market so long before the paid mods it'll be difficult to both do that and connect it to the mod problem.
By the time the next opportunity arrives to show them our displeasure, the damage will be done.
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 22, 2015, 11:12:02 pm
Post by: ShoesandHats on July 22, 2015, 11:20:57 pm
I'm not saying this won't be a bad thing for the modding community, it will, but we shouldn't get so worked up that we can't enjoy a game that we've been waiting for for five years. Besides, people will get mad. Probably madder than they were with Skyrim. Bethesda definitely took notice when people got mad there, so while they might not take it away fully again, they may tone it down significantly somehow.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 22, 2015, 11:29:48 pm
Post by: ShoesandHats on July 22, 2015, 11:31:38 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 22, 2015, 11:35:00 pm
Post by: UXLZ on July 22, 2015, 11:48:48 pm
I wonder what sort of spin they'll give it this time, and if it'll actually be justifiable. I'll be interested in seeing what the numbers say.
Also, why must companies never be satisfied with making "Lots and lots" of money? Why do they have to make all of it? (By squeezing consumers for every last penny and paying employees the least amount possible, of course. Lord knows, Mr. Exec needs his platinum-plated toilet and matching clothes hamper. Gold is just tacky.)
Post by: Krevsin on July 23, 2015, 12:08:08 am
Likewise, their DLC for the last few titles (FO3, Skyrim) is very rarely egregious cosmetic stuff, or on-disk, or day 1 and usually at least tries to provide enough entertaining content to sink a couple more hours into the game.
So far, Bethesda has, at least compared to some triple A developers, been pretty good at at least appearing like they prefer to get some of the money rather than all of it. And then paid mods for Skyrim happened.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 23, 2015, 01:40:40 am
Those companies are big. Like, really big. So they do need a lot of money to fuel the engine. Especially if we want more content, which the gaming masses always will.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on July 23, 2015, 01:47:30 am
Also, as much as I hate to say this because it sounds like I'm justifying some really shitty business practices, but...But that's dangerously short sighted if what you say is true.
Those companies are big. Like, really big. So they do need a lot of money to fuel the engine. Especially if we want more content, which the gaming masses always will.
Of course, a lot of gaming industry is that with the focus on fancy graphics and near exponential cost increase in making a current-gen game now.
Post by: UXLZ on July 23, 2015, 01:53:10 am
Anyway, yes, the companies are big, but they have a lot of bloat. Riot's a really good example of the issue, though I'd say that a fair amount of that money goes back into server costs.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 23, 2015, 02:13:08 am
Post by: Krevsin on July 23, 2015, 02:18:28 am
Also, as much as I hate to say this because it sounds like I'm justifying some really shitty business practices, but...And thus the bubble expands.
Those companies are big. Like, really big. So they do need a lot of money to fuel the engine. Especially if we want more content, which the gaming masses always will.
It is an unhealthy model. Besides, you used to have a lot of mid-budget games even a couple of years ago. Nowadays, everyone in the triple A seems to either go "make it a flaghsip title with BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS OF DOLLARS" or "make it an indie on a budget of this tenner what I found in the wash one day".
it's not sustainable and as soon as a flagship project underdelivers on sales, the company gets a severe financial blow.
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on July 23, 2015, 02:37:20 am
And thus the bubble expands.
It is an unhealthy model. Besides, you used to have a lot of mid-budget games even a couple of years ago. Nowadays, everyone in the triple A seems to either go "make it a flaghsip title with BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS OF DOLLARS" or "make it an indie on a budget of this tenner what I found in the wash one day".
it's not sustainable and as soon as a flagship project underdelivers on sales, the company gets a severe financial blow.
I'm personally wondering at which point the industry is going to have to pull itself back as it overextended itself with its current practices. I'm tentatively guessing mid to late this generation as graphics are being pushed fairly hard for this one.
Post by: Krevsin on July 23, 2015, 02:41:21 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 23, 2015, 02:47:56 am
This is why I'll always be happy to go back to older generations to play the laundry list of games that I haven't played.My friend. You have a golden generation ahead of you. PS2 era was the shit, man.
For example, I never owned a PS1 and barely played anything on a PS2 (we had 50 demo disks). Last I checked, those were pretty big, so I have a few years worth of good games on those to go through. I never played much of the SNES or NES either, so I could go back to those too. By the time I get done, the XBone and PS4 will be the previous generation and I can move onto those for cheaper and without worrying about things such as these.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on July 23, 2015, 03:01:50 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 23, 2015, 03:14:29 am
Post by: Trapezohedron on July 23, 2015, 03:24:12 am
Post by: Vendayn on July 23, 2015, 03:26:38 am
Have we ever considered how much it costs to create a game at all?
The same as it did without needing paid mods.
Post by: The13thRonin on July 23, 2015, 03:34:04 am
First they sold games with draconian DRM that punished paying customers and people let them.
Then they partitioned the content of a game at release and sold day one DLC and people let them.
Then they started selling buggy games that needed months of patching under the banner 'early access' and abandoning them half finished after the revenue dried up and people let them.
Now they are asking customers to pay for modified content created by fans and shared due to love of the game and people are letting them.
Next:
(http://i.imgur.com/dgGvgKF.png)
... And people will let them.
Stop letting them.
Post by: Krevsin on July 23, 2015, 03:36:04 am
Post by: notquitethere on July 23, 2015, 03:45:26 am
Would anyone else like the option of (permanently) becoming a ghoul or mutant during play?
Also, do we reckon there's going to be more spinoff games like Tactics and New Vegas?
Post by: Krevsin on July 23, 2015, 03:47:45 am
Post by: ShoesandHats on July 23, 2015, 03:50:44 am
They'd have to do a lot more voice acting with ghouls and their scratchy chain-smoking voice/super mutants with their Green Giant voice.
Maybe. Hopefully they'll get Obsidian to do it again, they did great with Vegas. Hopefully Bethesda will give them a bit more time and leeway, though.
Post by: UXLZ on July 23, 2015, 03:57:33 am
Post by: UXLZ on July 23, 2015, 04:08:31 am
Also, please present a few points as to why paid mods are a good thing rather than dismissing everything as 'slippery slope'. Yes, the consequences are exaggerated but there are negative consequences, quite heavy ones, that can easily be caused directly because of a paid modding system.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 23, 2015, 04:09:22 am
I'd love Obsidian to do another Fallout game.PLEASE
OH GOD, PLEASE
Post by: notquitethere on July 23, 2015, 04:13:10 am
They'd have to do a lot more voice acting with ghouls and their scratchy chain-smoking voice/super mutants with their Green Giant voice.I imagine it wouldn't be impossible to automatically lower the voice down an octave for the supermutant, but you're right that the hassle would probably discourage them from doing that (not to mention all the scripted events that would have to be checked to still work of you're actually three feet taller).
What would be possible is to turn you slowly into a tree-in-the-head ambiently mutated person like Harold.
Post by: Krevsin on July 23, 2015, 04:14:37 am
I am perfectly willing to kidnap Todd Howard's entire extended family and hold them for ransom until Obsidian agrees to make another Fallout game based on the FO4 engine.I'd love Obsidian to do another Fallout game.PLEASE
OH GOD, PLEASE
Post by: notquitethere on July 23, 2015, 04:16:21 am
Post by: scriver on July 23, 2015, 04:28:39 am
Also, do we reckon there's going to be more spinoff games like Tactics and New Vegas?
I'd love Obsidian to do another Fallout game.
It's a bit uncertain where they're at at this moment, I think. One of Obsidian's main links to the Fallout series, Chris Avellone, just left the studio. Some of the rumours of where he's going includes possibly joining up with inXile and Brian Fargo (one of the original producers of Fallout) to work on a Van Buren-inspired project - van Buren was, for those who don't recognise the name, the codename for Black Isle's cancelled Fallout 3 project which was headed by Avellone and Josh Sawyer. New Vegas was basically their attempt to make that Fallout 3 again, and lots of Van Buren ideas went into it, whether directly as content or as world fluff.
Of course, it would be ridiculous to think a new possible FallObsidian game hinged exclusively on whether Avellone is there, especially since he has been known to cross-work between studios writing-wise (and iirc he only worked on New Vegas as a writer anyway). But it might influence the possibilities.
I'm also not sure in what situation Obsidian is currently in. If I understand things correctly, they were basically on the verge of bankruptcy when they launched the PoE kickstarter and had at the time had to cut themselves down to a very small studio. I'm not sure if they've grown enough to be a multiple game project studio again, but if they haven't they might be focusing all their workforce on PoE stuff in the near future. We'll see.
Maybe. Hopefully they'll get Obsidian to do it again, they did great with Vegas. Hopefully Bethesda will give them a bit more time and leeway, though.
Hehe. I'm a big Obsidian fan, but when you learn that only two thirds of the originally planned map ever even made it into the game, and even then with lots of cut stuff in them, you realise those guys have no sense of scale :P
Post by: Putnam on July 23, 2015, 04:29:26 am
Post by: The13thRonin on July 23, 2015, 04:29:55 am
Quote from: Ispil
Hyperbole and slippery slope ahoy, not even to mention 4 lines of individual strawmen. Where do I even begin?
My suggestion for where to begin would be not wasting your time trying to score imaginary internet points against your fellow users.
But if you want to keep tilting at them windmills then be my guest Don Quixote, be my guest.
Also I suggest you look the definition of a straw-man. Here's a hot tip. When talking about the dangers of anti-consumer practices in video games, citing examples of anti-consumer practices in video games is not a straw-man.
Post by: ShoesandHats on July 23, 2015, 04:34:14 am
Please, no more name-calling.
Post by: scriver on July 23, 2015, 04:47:55 am
also the guy who actually created Fallout is working for obsidian now
Do you mean Feargus Urquhart or Tim Cain? It doesn't really matter, they both work for it (although Urquhart has worked there since founding it ;) ). I had forgotten about Cain joining Obsidian, though. I guess there's more FO guys on there right now than there ever was, so from that aspect the chances of getting another FallObsidian game might be bigger, rather than smaller.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 23, 2015, 04:50:18 am
Post by: The13thRonin on July 23, 2015, 05:39:47 am
Can we please end this argument before it devolves further into name-calling? It's been going on for pages and everything that can be said has been said. Let's just talk about the upcoming game. Quake-con, maybe?Eh, easier just to report and move on. He clearly has no intention on doing anything other than trolling.
Please, no more name-calling.
Answering another user's question is now trolling? That's quite the definition of trolling. You asked where to begin and I politely obliged you with an answer. I have made a total of three posts to this thread including this one. I would have made a grand total of one if you hadn't have decided to make a one line post which contributed nothing to the thread except trying unsuccessfully to score a zinger off me.
If you'd like to continue this discussion I suggest you move it to personal messages now so as not to drag the thread off-topic. As far as reports are concerned, report away. Considering your first post I have been remarkably civil (at least by my metrics). I won't be reporting you because it's unnecessary. I'm not threatened by what you have to say.
Getting back to Fallout 4:
How is a dog being in the game even a feature? There has been a dog in all of the Fallouts...
Post by: Trapezohedron on July 23, 2015, 06:13:41 am
It all comes to AI packages
snrk fable2
Post by: ShoesandHats on July 23, 2015, 06:22:27 am
Post by: notquitethere on July 23, 2015, 06:46:09 am
Except new vegas.There was a dog companion in New Vegas: Rex the cyberhound (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Rex_%28Fallout:_New_Vegas%29).
Post by: UXLZ on July 23, 2015, 06:51:24 am
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 23, 2015, 07:51:54 am
Paid mods were introduced for Skyrim on April 23rd, about two years after the last DLC was released. Presumably, sales weren't great by that point. Sure, they're pretty much always okay for triple-A games, but I doubt too many people were getting it four years after the fact. Paid mods were then pulled five days later, I believe. I doubt paid mods made such a big impact on Skyrim's already mediocre sales within those five days that Bethesda were forced to remove them.Like I said a couple pages ago, that was probably because they were having their first-ever E3 appearance in 2 months. That's not a lot of time to forget about the controversy, and they probably judged that it would dog them at least to E3 if they didn't give in.
snip
They didn't want that, especially with FO4 planned for November, just 5 months later.
If they had known it would be controversial, (apparently they didn't), they wouldn't have done that.
snip
Hey, I never said I agreed with paid mods; it's just that most of the arguments against them are fallacious to the point where they're not worth arguing against. So far the only arguments I've seen in this whole thread are along the lines of "paid patches," "forcing modders to make their mods pay-only," and some allegory about a Minecraft server.
Alright, here's a link (http://wryemusings.com/Cathedral%20vs.%20Parlor.html) to some old musings from Wrye that was shared around last time everyone was talking about this. Maybe it'll explain better than I did.
My issue with paid mods is that it creates a hell of a legal clusterfuck that most modders would not be willing to deal with. It's hard to collaborate when you're trying to negotiate ownership of a group mod to determine whether to make it pay-for or not. It could easily reach a point where, just to make a group mod and avoid constant arguments over who owns what and who gets what cut, that modders would have to set up an LLC or somesuch just to settle out the details.I always thought this argument was humbug. Deciding how to monetize a grouping of paid mods should be pretty straight-forward. They talk to eachother, figure out how to drop their prices to make the package more reasonable, and if someone doesn't want to play ball they get someone else or the mod doesn't get made.
They could probably just set it up through steam/whatever marketplace endorses all this after they talk it out.
What it would do is stymie cooperation between paid & free mods/modders, and updating paid group mods would be a headache for those involved, especially if someone walked away.
Or do you mean how less-scrupulous behaviors would be handled, like holding your part of the mod hostage after-the-fact unless you get a bigger cut?
If you guys want I can spoiler this conversation to keep it somewhat separated from the thread.
How could you forget 'Ol Rexie?Rex is probably my least-favorite companion. You just get a new brain for him and that's that. Obligatory dog completed.
Dogmeat on the other hand looked better & served an actual purpose with those random alien weapon drops. (find the powercells boy!)
Post by: Wimopy on July 23, 2015, 08:13:53 am
There's also Roxie in Old World Blues. Sure, even less significance than Rex and easily missed, but she's still there. Her ending even says she creates cyberpuppies with Rex. Maybe those will appear in a future Fallout.
I'm not sure how much of New Vegas is in Bethesda's canon though. Heck, I'm not even sure if the Fallout 3 DLCs are all canon. Mothership Zeta would give some interesting stories to hear.
Then again, even if they may be canon, as I said before, we don't know WHEN Fallout 4 takes place. It could be before or during FO3/NV. "200 years after the War" is quite vague, especially since '200 years' could mean 180 or 220 easily.
By the way, if the PC survives by hibernation, but then why didn't House use the same technology for example? Tranquility Lane in FO3 has seemingly 200 year old people trapped in the sim, who don't seem to age, so House could also stay connected to his computers. And it seems RobCo had pretty close ties with Vault-Tec. Maybe Braun was simply keeping hush-hush about Vault 87's stuff.
If it's not hibernation, then what? IIRC, Androids are post-war tech, but based on the OWB Think Tank, a brain can be preserved quite well in a cyborg body for 200 years. Rex' brain didn't do so well, but maybe Vault-Tec had special machinery.
Still, being a cyborg is a no-go. It would mean poison immunity and probably rad immunity too. Not to mention endurance that's way too high... actually, that's all plausible, seeing as how much stronger the PC is than your average soldier in the Fallout games.
Post by: scriver on July 23, 2015, 08:20:29 am
Post by: Krevsin on July 23, 2015, 08:38:09 am
To be more specific, you're the 4th or 5th clone.
Post by: Iceblaster on July 23, 2015, 08:50:51 am
Post by: Fniff on July 23, 2015, 09:43:30 am
Post by: JimboM12 on July 23, 2015, 09:45:30 am
In a shocking reveal, everyone's just humoring the crazy clone PC who just keeps saying their name in different inflections
Only the "main" characters will call you by name. Everyone else will slide something else in there. "Hey......buddy?" or "Sup.......guy."
Post by: Fniff on July 23, 2015, 09:47:29 am
This applies to your own character as wellIn a shocking reveal, everyone's just humoring the crazy clone PC who just keeps saying their name in different inflections
Only the "main" characters will call you by name. Everyone else will slide something else in there. "Hey......buddy?" or "Sup.......guy."
Also of note, Terrifying Presence is still in the game
"I'm going to break your fucking face!"
"Buddy?"
"Yeah, what are you going to do about it!?"
"Buddy"
"What?"
"BUDDY!"
"OH GOD RUN"
Post by: Trapezohedron on July 23, 2015, 10:11:53 am
How could you forget 'Ol Rexie?
oh my
he's not a d- *get shot*
i honestly forgot, my bad. :|
Post by: Toady One on July 23, 2015, 10:39:54 am
Post by: UXLZ on July 23, 2015, 10:42:38 am
@New Guy: Well, Rex doesn't seem to be that popular anyway. I sorta liked him.
He had the BRAIN of a dog! That's close enough.
Post by: Sergius on July 23, 2015, 11:49:18 am
Post by: Teneb on July 23, 2015, 12:22:23 pm
@New Guy: Well, Rex doesn't seem to be that popular anyway. I sorta liked him.Rex is most of a dog with the brains of multiple dogs that were merged somehow.
He had the BRAIN of a dog! That's close enough.
Brains in Fallout are weird.Very much an understatement, considering what we see happen over all games.
Post by: scriver on July 23, 2015, 12:37:13 pm
Post by: Graknorke on July 23, 2015, 01:15:45 pm
"Paid mods will lead to paid patches!" (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope)Sorry, gotta dig up the misapplication of logical fallacies. It's only a slippery slope if you say that A will lead to B with no real reasoning behind it (e.g. saying that it should be illegal to be gay, because otherwise paedophilia would have to be legal either, even though there is no real logical connection between the arguments between the two besides being to do with sex). However, the context here was where the argument in favour of A would also support B (that all work should be charged for).
Post by: Sergius on July 23, 2015, 01:42:17 pm
"Paid mods will lead to paid patches!" (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope)Sorry, gotta dig up the misapplication of logical fallacies. It's only a slippery slope if you say that A will lead to B with no real reasoning behind it (e.g. saying that it should be illegal to be gay, because otherwise paedophilia would have to be legal either, even though there is no real logical connection between the arguments between the two besides being to do with sex). However, the context here was where the argument in favour of A would also support B (that all work should be charged for).
That is correct. A lot of people confuse fallacies with the term that those fallacies refer to. A "slippery slope" is just something that if A happens (is allowed), B will probably happen. A "slippery slope fallacy" is when two unrelated things are stated to follow from the other.
It's a pet peeve. It's like when people yell "Godwin! Argument over!" when someone says Hitler or Nazi. Godwin is a prediction of how long it takes to refer to Hitler or the Nazis, not a fallacy. It would be like saying that you lose the argument because your toast fell to the floor on the buttered side.
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 23, 2015, 01:51:04 pm
Post by: Sergius on July 23, 2015, 01:54:30 pm
For example, you would need to demonstrate first that this will result in animals being granted human rights and a status of person-hood before they can be married to humans. However, gay people already are human, and are people, and have (at least in theory) equal rights.
EDIT: At this point it would probably be easier to demonstrate that humans can marry corporations.
Post by: penguinofhonor on July 23, 2015, 01:55:26 pm
Post by: Sergius on July 23, 2015, 02:01:37 pm
For example: saying that the approval of a law that lets the government ignore due process as long as they think one is a really really bad person, will inevitably be abused against other people that aren't bad or have done nothing wrong, is not necessarily a fallacy.
Slippery slope doesn't mean "your argument is invalid". The argument isn't in a slippery slope, whoever is predicted to abuse said law is the one in the slippery slope.
Quote
- In the classical form, the arguer suggests that making a move in a particular direction starts something on a path down a "slippery slope". Having started down the metaphorical slope, it will continue to slide in the same direction (the arguer usually sees the direction as a negative direction).
- Modern usage includes a logically valid form, in which a minor action causes a significant impact through a long chain of logical relationships. Establishing this chain of logical implication (or quantifying the relevant probabilities) makes this form logically valid; the slippery slope argument remains a fallacy if such a chain is not established.
Post by: MetalSlimeHunt on July 23, 2015, 02:04:17 pm
The perspective of the person holding the argument seeing it as logical means nothing. You can perceive anything as logical if you have strong enough bias.
More on topic, this game is going straight to the boycott list for me. Maybe I'll revive the PSA thread and make this the topic of it.
Post by: Flying Dice on July 23, 2015, 02:26:36 pm
Post by: Iceblaster on July 23, 2015, 02:43:44 pm
So! Any news that's not rumors? I honestly haven't been keeping track of this after the whole paid mods thing.
Post by: Guardian G.I. on July 23, 2015, 02:48:09 pm
Post by: Sergius on July 23, 2015, 03:30:40 pm
Post by: miauw62 on July 23, 2015, 03:50:30 pm
Soon we will overtake them and I will claim my rightful throne as King of Hypethreads! Mwahaha
Post by: Flying Dice on July 23, 2015, 04:34:47 pm
The lead writer for Fallout 4 is the guy who came up with the arrow to the knee business. They call him "the king of the one liners". Make of that what you will.The thing is, that line was actually brilliant writing. It was a throwaway joke line which pretty much instantly jumped to being a top-tier meme, even to the point where people invented a "real" meaning that it was supposedly a metaphor for (the story that "taking an arrow to the knee" was slang for marriage).
Honestly if anything I'd say that that helps balance out the terrible writing in FO3. Talent for cheesy hack writing is better than no talent, and that sort of silliness fits Fallout better than TES anyways.
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 23, 2015, 04:47:52 pm
Looking at the bright side, the paid mods debate has let us catch up with the XCOM 2 thread :PYoouu'rrreee welcome! I'd like to thank everyone involved and hereby pledge it'll be brought up again at some point in the future. ;D
Soon we will overtake them and I will claim my rightful throne as King of Hypethreads! Mwahaha
Post by: Teneb on July 23, 2015, 05:13:05 pm
I should probably note most TES games have some kind of stupid one-liner, usually related to guards. "We are watching you, scum." and "STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM!" come to mind.The lead writer for Fallout 4 is the guy who came up with the arrow to the knee business. They call him "the king of the one liners". Make of that what you will.The thing is, that line was actually brilliant writing. It was a throwaway joke line which pretty much instantly jumped to being a top-tier meme, even to the point where people invented a "real" meaning that it was supposedly a metaphor for (the story that "taking an arrow to the knee" was slang for marriage).
Honestly if anything I'd say that that helps balance out the terrible writing in FO3. Talent for cheesy hack writing is better than no talent, and that sort of silliness fits Fallout better than TES anyways.
Post by: Sergius on July 23, 2015, 05:44:38 pm
Bit expensive IMO, that's the cost of a plasma rifle or so.
EDIT: Wait, that was back in June. Eh.
Post by: umiman on July 23, 2015, 05:57:20 pm
Looking at the bright side, the paid mods debate has let us catch up with the XCOM 2 thread :PYou wish.
Soon we will overtake them and I will claim my rightful throne as King of Hypethreads! Mwahaha
All it takes to jumpstart the XCOM 2 thread another 100 pages is someone initiating more alien porn.
Post by: Flying Dice on July 23, 2015, 06:08:19 pm
Looking at the bright side, the paid mods debate has let us catch up with the XCOM 2 thread :PYou wish.
Soon we will overtake them and I will claim my rightful throne as King of Hypethreads! Mwahaha
All it takes to jumpstart the XCOM 2 thread another 100 pages is someone initiating more alien porn.
It can't be long now after we got a look at the new Muton. Just look at those sexy skin folds, eh?
Post by: SealyStar on July 23, 2015, 06:30:27 pm
You forgotI should probably note most TES games have some kind of stupid one-liner, usually related to guards. "We are watching you, scum." and "STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM!" come to mind.The lead writer for Fallout 4 is the guy who came up with the arrow to the knee business. They call him "the king of the one liners". Make of that what you will.The thing is, that line was actually brilliant writing. It was a throwaway joke line which pretty much instantly jumped to being a top-tier meme, even to the point where people invented a "real" meaning that it was supposedly a metaphor for (the story that "taking an arrow to the knee" was slang for marriage).
Honestly if anything I'd say that that helps balance out the terrible writing in FO3. Talent for cheesy hack writing is better than no talent, and that sort of silliness fits Fallout better than TES anyways.
Code: [Select]
while (player.isCriminal){
System.out.println("Halt");
}
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 23, 2015, 09:33:29 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 23, 2015, 09:43:34 pm
Some guy just purchased Fallout 4 from Bethesda with more than 2000 bottlecaps.I think they only accepted it because it had taken him seven years to save up. He literally started saving them right when Fallout 3 was released. That's hardcore.
Bit expensive IMO, that's the cost of a plasma rifle or so.
EDIT: Wait, that was back in June. Eh.
Post by: Trapezohedron on July 23, 2015, 09:46:50 pm
Some guy just purchased Fallout 4 from Bethesda with more than 2000 bottlecaps.I think they only accepted it because it had taken him seven years to save up. He literally started saving them right when Fallout 3 was released. That's hardcore.
Bit expensive IMO, that's the cost of a plasma rifle or so.
EDIT: Wait, that was back in June. Eh.
It also has something to do with PR. Actually, mainly PR.
I mean, it's made of bottlecaps. Thousands of them.
Post by: Sergius on July 23, 2015, 09:53:45 pm
Halt!
Halt!
Halt!
Halt!
Halt!
Gary!
Halt!
Halt!
Post by: TheDarkStar on July 23, 2015, 11:04:00 pm
"I used to be an adventurer like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee." -Beggar
"I used to be an adventurer like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee." -King
"I used to be an adventurer like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee." -Blacksmith
"I used to be an adventurer like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee." -Villager
"I used to be an adventurer like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee." -Vampire
"I used to be an adventurer like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee." -Hermit
"I used to be an adventurer like you..." ...
...
Post by: Putnam on July 23, 2015, 11:25:40 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on July 24, 2015, 01:18:03 am
guards are the only ones who say that
Actually the guards are the only ones who don't say that... Everybody else is just a master ventriloquist.
Illuminati EXPOSED...
Post by: Rose on July 24, 2015, 01:34:49 am
Post by: ShoesandHats on July 24, 2015, 01:53:27 pm
Post by: SealyStar on July 24, 2015, 02:08:29 pm
The Quakecon presentation is on, and IGN is doing a liveblog (http://www.24liveblog.com/live/1298013). Keep readin'!
Quote
The player discovers a laser musketYes.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 24, 2015, 02:17:26 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 24, 2015, 02:20:09 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 24, 2015, 02:22:29 pm
Post by: Graknorke on July 24, 2015, 02:24:11 pm
Post by: SealyStar on July 24, 2015, 02:26:40 pm
Is something wrong with it being a laser musket?No, it's just funny. Very Fallout-y idea.
Post by: Rolan7 on July 24, 2015, 02:31:29 pm
The thing is, that line was actually brilliant writing. It was a throwaway joke line which pretty much instantly jumped to being a top-tier meme, even to the point where people invented a "real" meaning that it was supposedly a metaphor for (the story that "taking an arrow to the knee" was slang for marriage).I was kinda confused when I finally got Skyrim and only rarely heard that line. Guess I didn't hang out with guards much. Didn't help that half the time they said "Wait, I know you..."
(Still amazes me that you can just tab out of their accusation and walk away)
Halt! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18CGW9P5Y9M)I still love that video
Post by: SealyStar on July 24, 2015, 03:03:44 pm
Post by: Putnam on July 24, 2015, 04:48:34 pm
I think the best thing about it is that, barring weapon degradation, INFINITE POWER-MUSKET
you can see them losing ammo when they wind, so no
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 24, 2015, 04:51:13 pm
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 24, 2015, 05:10:08 pm
(－‸ლ)
I'm getting Bioware flashbacks.
Couple that with the dialogue wheel and I think we know what games they've been
Post by: Graknorke on July 24, 2015, 05:12:00 pm
that's nearly double what we got in nv
Post by: ShoesandHats on July 24, 2015, 05:15:35 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gunner-Chan on July 24, 2015, 05:32:46 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on July 24, 2015, 05:35:21 pm
First up is the news that Fallout 4 will include 12 companions who can join you on your journey. You can even romance them, regardless of their gender. (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/07/24/new-fallout-4-details-emerge-from-quakecon.aspx)
(－‸ლ)
I'm getting Bioware flashbacks.
Couple that with the dialogue wheel and I think we know what games they've beenplayingresearching.
Not to mention power armor mechanics and animation very nearly ripped from Mech Assault 2 (with prettier models, I admit), and heavy weapon third-person cam animations that are almost visually identical to Halo 3 (yes I know that there are only a few ways to carry a heavy weapon, but it even includes the slowed-down walking.)
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 24, 2015, 05:40:34 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on July 24, 2015, 05:40:58 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Elfeater on July 24, 2015, 05:50:07 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 24, 2015, 05:52:13 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 24, 2015, 05:57:14 pm
Post by: Graknorke on July 24, 2015, 05:58:32 pm
Post by: ShoesandHats on July 24, 2015, 05:59:37 pm
Any word on whether there'll be official footage of the demo?
Post by: Teneb on July 24, 2015, 06:01:06 pm
Guys I know you're joking but toady was JUST here because someone reported us arguing or something. Dogfucking may not be the best topic right now?I believe Toady was here because people were getting antagonistic towards each other. As long as everyone is being sarcastic about the Dogmeat romance, I don't really see a problem.
EDIT: And... ninja'd.
Post by: Sergius on July 24, 2015, 06:17:24 pm
For me the most annoying guard thing in Skyrim was the comments on your skills and equipment. It's an impressive feature that obviously took a lot of writing and VA effort for something that most people just ignore, but its get grating the 50th time you hear "Favah da bow, eh? I'm moah of a sword mahn myself" or "Da best offense ees a good defense, amirite?"
Or all guards accusing you of being a cutpurse because your sneak is high.
I think the best thing about it is that, barring weapon degradation, INFINITE POWER-MUSKET
you can see them losing ammo when they wind, so no
Interesting, it makes more sense that you have to cycle the powercells (like cocking a shotgun) rather than slowly twirling a small crank twice gives enough power to vaporize a person :P
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 24, 2015, 06:19:23 pm
It's not a dogfucking thread, just a dogfucking tangent. The rules are far from being violated.The rules weren't being violated before and someone still felt the need to push report. Feel free to ignore me then.
Post by: Kruniac on July 24, 2015, 06:25:06 pm
Can you romance dogmeat? Thats the real question.
Within three months, those Sex Lab people will have made all kinds of kinky mods to boff just about anything on the planet. So yeah. You'll be able to dog some Dogmeat.
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 24, 2015, 06:27:02 pm
And birth them.
Post by: Iceblaster on July 24, 2015, 06:28:31 pm
There is, no joke, a mod for New Vegas (with a series of quests, no less) that allows female players to - hold onto your hats, folks - become impregnated. By various animals. Including Deathclaws.
And birth them.
The fetish machine that is the internet, right here.
Post by: Elfeater on July 24, 2015, 07:21:25 pm
Post by: SealyStar on July 24, 2015, 07:28:48 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on July 24, 2015, 09:25:04 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 24, 2015, 09:25:58 pm
Post by: Bohandas on July 24, 2015, 11:27:37 pm
The inside of Mr. Handy is actually modeled, because I guess Bethesda wants to make sure you can see the detailsAre you sure you're thinking of Mr.Handys and not Protectrons?if he’s ever blown upwhen you fuck him.
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 24, 2015, 11:41:16 pm
Post by: Bohandas on July 24, 2015, 11:55:06 pm
(I just started playing The Pitt. Man, I thought Dead Money railroaded you. I can't imagine what could possibly posess the Lone Wanderer to surrender to Ashur's goons instead of just cutting them to ribbons like all the goons prior to that cutscene. And then that scene where Ashur's giving the speech...I had actually picked up a scoped .44 by that point, as well as several devices realistically capable of making short work of a cheap chain-link fence, any reasonable person would at that point just put a bullet through his eye or break into the catwalks and beat him to death with the sledgehammer, but the game doesn't let you do either of those things)
EDIT:
And Lonesome Road really should have been placed after the main quest in FNV. The Hoover Dam battle is kind of anticlimactic when all of the the Legion's other territories have already been purged wih atomic fire.
Post by: Flying Dice on July 24, 2015, 11:55:57 pm
Yes.The inside of Mr. Handy is actually modeled, because I guess Bethesda wants to make sure you can see the detailsAre you sure you're thinking of Mr.Handys and not Protectrons?if he’s ever blown upwhen you fuck him.
That said, we'll probably see the return of Fisto within a week of the GECK being released.
Post by: Bohandas on July 25, 2015, 12:00:05 am
Yes.The inside of Mr. Handy is actually modeled, because I guess Bethesda wants to make sure you can see the detailsAre you sure you're thinking of Mr.Handys and not Protectrons?if he’s ever blown upwhen you fuck him.
That said, we'll probably see the return of Fisto within a week of the GECK being released.
Good! Someone got the reference!
Post by: Krevsin on July 25, 2015, 12:11:18 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 25, 2015, 12:24:36 am
This is a polite thread, Krevsin.
It's Mr. Fuckface.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on July 25, 2015, 12:26:14 am
Ahem.Mr. or Ms. Fuckface.
This is a polite thread, Krevsin.
It's Mr. Fuckface.
You must always strive for equality.
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 25, 2015, 12:43:37 am
*fallout player death track*
Post by: Putnam on July 25, 2015, 01:04:23 am
Everyone seems to have missed the most important part, i.e. the fact that you can call your character "Fuckface" and be reffered to as one by the mr. Handy.
is that actually true
they only recorded so many names
Post by: Krevsin on July 25, 2015, 01:06:04 am
yes, at QuakeCon they explicitly said they recorded Mr. Fuckface dialogue.Everyone seems to have missed the most important part, i.e. the fact that you can call your character "Fuckface" and be reffered to as one by the mr. Handy.
is that actually true
they only recorded so many names
Post by: Flying Dice on July 25, 2015, 01:12:20 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 25, 2015, 01:12:37 am
Post by: Bohandas on July 25, 2015, 01:17:18 am
The thing is, that line was actually brilliant writing. It was a throwaway joke line which pretty much instantly jumped to being a top-tier meme, even to the point where people invented a "real" meaning that it was supposedly a metaphor for (the story that "taking an arrow to the knee" was slang for marriage).I was kinda confused when I finally got Skyrim and only rarely heard that line.
Yeah. They really don't say it much at all.
Post by: Wimopy on July 25, 2015, 02:59:20 am
The question is... are you so famous that even raiders recognise your face and name or is that an insult?
Seriously though, as I said before: I'd love for the Skyrim guards-recognise-skills-and-equipment to be used for random events/dialogue/whatever. When I'm strolling around in power armour with a .50 cal HMG on my back, I don't think "Freeside Thugs", no matter how desperate for food and caps, would fearlessly run at me with half-broken tire irons and dull kitchen knives.
Similarly, I think a guy with a ballistic fist is not someone I should insult from within striking distance.
Or telling the guy in a stealth suit (or currently invisible with a stealth boy) and obviously high sneak skill (full silent movement and seemingly invisible in plain daylight are good tells) that sneaking into some area is reckless and stupid.
You get the picture.
Post by: scriver on July 25, 2015, 05:22:23 am
First up is the news that Fallout 4 will include 12 companions who can join you on your journey. You can even romance them, regardless of their gender. (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/07/24/new-fallout-4-details-emerge-from-quakecon.aspx)
(－‸ლ)
I'm getting Bioware flashbacks.
Couple that with the dialogue wheel and I think we know what games they've beenplayingresearching.
I'm presuming they'll be as individual as FO3/Skyrim companions, though. "Romancing" will probably work similarly to Skyrim too.
Did we see any if the companions in the thing?
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 25, 2015, 06:00:29 am
No, but that's good news. :DFirst up is the news that Fallout 4 will include 12 companions who can join you on your journey. You can even romance them, regardless of their gender. (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/07/24/new-fallout-4-details-emerge-from-quakecon.aspx)
(－‸ლ)
I'm getting Bioware flashbacks.
Couple that with the dialogue wheel and I think we know what games they've beenplayingresearching.
I'm presuming they'll be as individual as FO3/Skyrim companions, though. "Romancing" will probably work similarly to Skyrim too.
Did we see any if the companions in the thing?
Scripted raider shouts "Hey, Fuckface! Gimme all your caps and items!"If you're wearing power armor, they should be in awe, if they're a regular wastelander.
The question is... are you so famous that even raiders recognise your face and name or is that an insult?
Seriously though, as I said before: I'd love for the Skyrim guards-recognise-skills-and-equipment to be used for random events/dialogue/whatever. When I'm strolling around in power armour with a .50 cal HMG on my back, I don't think "Freeside Thugs", no matter how desperate for food and caps, would fearlessly run at me with half-broken tire irons and dull kitchen knives.
Similarly, I think a guy with a ballistic fist is not someone I should insult from within striking distance.
Or telling the guy in a stealth suit (or currently invisible with a stealth boy) and obviously high sneak skill (full silent movement and seemingly invisible in plain daylight are good tells) that sneaking into some area is reckless and stupid.
You get the picture.
"Hooo-lee-shit."
Post by: JimboM12 on July 25, 2015, 08:49:24 am
First up is the news that Fallout 4 will include 12 companions who can join you on your journey. You can even romance them, regardless of their gender. (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/07/24/new-fallout-4-details-emerge-from-quakecon.aspx)
(－‸ლ)
I'm getting Bioware flashbacks.
Couple that with the dialogue wheel and I think we know what games they've beenplayingresearching.
I'm presuming they'll be as individual as FO3/Skyrim companions, though. "Romancing" will probably work similarly to Skyrim too.
Did we see any if the companions in the thing?
Supposedly before they cut companion romances out of NV, there was a little side quest where you (a male courier) and Cass would get drunk and would wind up married. Like, you'd wake up in the King's crib and he'd tell you guys about the crazy night you had and how you asked him to marry you guys. We can only assume how this quest would have ended.
Post by: scriver on July 25, 2015, 09:15:07 am
That doesn't really sound like it would count as "npc romance" to me, though. But then again, neither did the Skyrim amulet stuff.
No, but that's good news. :DFirst up is the news that Fallout 4 will include 12 companions who can join you on your journey. You can even romance them, regardless of their gender. (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/07/24/new-fallout-4-details-emerge-from-quakecon.aspx)
(－‸ლ)
I'm getting Bioware flashbacks.
Couple that with the dialogue wheel and I think we know what games they've beenplayingresearching.
I'm presuming they'll be as individual as FO3/Skyrim companions, though. "Romancing" will probably work similarly to Skyrim too.
Did we see any if the companions in the thing?
Which one?
Post by: Teneb on July 25, 2015, 09:55:50 am
(I just started playing The Pitt. Man, I thought Dead Money railroaded you. I can't imagine what could possibly posess the Lone Wanderer to surrender to Ashur's goons instead of just cutting them to ribbons like all the goons prior to that cutscene. And then that scene where Ashur's giving the speech...I had actually picked up a scoped .44 by that point, as well as several devices realistically capable of making short work of a cheap chain-link fence, any reasonable person would at that point just put a bullet through his eye or break into the catwalks and beat him to death with the sledgehammer, but the game doesn't let you do either of those things)Ashur isn't anything like Elijah, though the DLC does try to paint him as generic villain of the day. Thing is, The Pitt is the one ambiguous thing in all of Fallout 3. (I also really like the level design on the steel mill)
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 25, 2015, 04:52:54 pm
I want this quest more than anything.First up is the news that Fallout 4 will include 12 companions who can join you on your journey. You can even romance them, regardless of their gender. (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/07/24/new-fallout-4-details-emerge-from-quakecon.aspx)
(－‸ლ)
I'm getting Bioware flashbacks.
Couple that with the dialogue wheel and I think we know what games they've beenplayingresearching.
I'm presuming they'll be as individual as FO3/Skyrim companions, though. "Romancing" will probably work similarly to Skyrim too.
Did we see any if the companions in the thing?
Supposedly before they cut companion romances out of NV, there was a little side quest where you (a male courier) and Cass would get drunk and would wind up married. Like, you'd wake up in the King's crib and he'd tell you guys about the crazy night you had and how you asked him to marry you guys. We can only assume how this quest would have ended.
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 25, 2015, 05:06:35 pm
Post by: Bohandas on July 25, 2015, 05:33:02 pm
(I just started playing The Pitt. Man, I thought Dead Money railroaded you. I can't imagine what could possibly posess the Lone Wanderer to surrender to Ashur's goons instead of just cutting them to ribbons like all the goons prior to that cutscene. And then that scene where Ashur's giving the speech...I had actually picked up a scoped .44 by that point, as well as several devices realistically capable of making short work of a cheap chain-link fence, any reasonable person would at that point just put a bullet through his eye or break into the catwalks and beat him to death with the sledgehammer, but the game doesn't let you do either of those things)Ashur isn't anything like Elijah, though the DLC does try to paint him as generic villain of the day. Thing is, The Pitt is the one ambiguous thing in all of Fallout 3. (I also really like the level design on the steel mill)
He's a scumbag bandit leader. The fact that he has a family and delusions of grandeur doesn't change that.
Post by: Vendayn on July 25, 2015, 05:35:41 pm
NPCs are going to say your female name you choose and that will be rather weird rofl.
Post by: Rolan7 on July 25, 2015, 05:40:04 pm
That's a welcome feature for me, since I enjoy roleplay but often forget my character is more than an avatar. If I don't check 3rd person occasionally I tend to forget their gender. One playthrough I actually sketched out a constant journal, which really helped for staying in character.
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 25, 2015, 05:55:24 pm
snip
He's a scumbag bandit leader. The fact that he has a family and delusions of grandeur doesn't change that.
He's an ex-BOS white-knight (FO3 after all) and his good intentions sound genuine.
It sucks that our options are so limited, because as-is we have to condemn him, his family, & the city he's trying to build in order to improve the slaves' lot in life immediately.
There is plenty of reason to do so, but an intervention by the lone wanderer in favor of the slaves at that point in time just seems like..a premature end.
Post by: NullForceOmega on July 25, 2015, 06:06:42 pm
Post by: Teneb on July 25, 2015, 06:19:38 pm
From my standpoint the slaves were in more trouble without Ashur than with him. His logic is solid and his plans can actually solve some of the Pitt's problems, Werner on the other hand lies and manipulates the Lone Wanderer at every turn, and has no long-term plan that I ever heard. So to me Ashur is ultimately the better choice for the Pitt and the slaves.And if you side with the slaves...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 25, 2015, 06:21:15 pm
When you speak with him in his office, it's clear he isn't on the same page with his underlings.
They might decide to get rid of him, and you aren't given the option come back & check, (or pressure him for reforms).
It's either 'leave everything on Ashur's back like you found it' or 'kill Ashur, all of the raiders, and steal his baby from her mother's arms'.
Really? I thought the lights only go off in the upper half of the city, where the raiders live(d).
Post by: NullForceOmega on July 25, 2015, 06:24:28 pm
Post by: GrizzlyAdamz on July 25, 2015, 06:45:11 pm
Alternatively, he could be saying that just for your ears. But that wasn't my impression back when I first played it, and it would be shitty leadership to call out his subordinate like that infront of the newbie.
Also,
'Wer-ner'
It makes my ears bleed. It's Vernher. VERNHER!
AAAAGGHHH
Post by: NullForceOmega on July 25, 2015, 06:59:41 pm
Post by: Bohandas on July 25, 2015, 09:23:55 pm
Post by: Darkmere on July 25, 2015, 10:03:36 pm
Post by: Krevsin on July 25, 2015, 10:45:36 pm
The man had a messiah complexFallout as a series is no stranger to the Pitt's sort of morality.
Like that infamous original version of the Fallout 1 questline in Junktown, where by helping the local law enforcement, you actually turned the town into a city of ghosts where the sheriff ruled with an iron fist, while siding with the crime sindicate turned the place into a well-managed boomtown.
Only that was changed because mixed messages or something.
Post by: Bohandas on July 25, 2015, 11:20:30 pm
Hah, yeah go ahead and side with the Werhner the waster who was an actual bandit and has no scientific knowledge whatever. See how far he and his wench get cutting a baby apart on their own. That kid's dead in a week and any hope for treatments along with it. Probably along with the whole mill, too. The people who were actually equipped to fight troggs are now dead.. with their gear under a swarm of troggs. Oh, and the slaves never actually get freed. Werhner doesn't even talk to them. I was always 100% certain he just wanted Ashur gone to take over himself and bail when things got bad.
Well the obvious solution there is to eliminate Werhner as well
Post by: Flying Dice on July 25, 2015, 11:40:24 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 25, 2015, 11:42:56 pm
Bioware RPG: Romance everyone
Bethesda RPG: Murder everyone
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 25, 2015, 11:54:11 pm
Telltale Games RPG: Disappoint everyoneFixed.
Bioware RPG: Romance everyone THEN WEEP AS THEY DIE BEFORE YOU
Bethesda RPG: Murder everyone
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 26, 2015, 12:00:07 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 26, 2015, 12:45:54 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on July 26, 2015, 12:51:13 am
DID YOU EVEN PLAY MASS EFFECT 3No, see, you just didn't grind the side missions enough.Yeah, I'm doubting Beth will be able to nail that level of companion-based love.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And yes you can save both.
Post by: Wimopy on July 26, 2015, 09:17:25 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: UXLZ on July 26, 2015, 09:34:09 am
Spoiler: Mass Effect (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lightningfalcon on July 26, 2015, 09:58:08 am
She can survive. The person guranteed to die isSpoiler: Mass Effect (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Bohandas on July 26, 2015, 11:37:47 am
I've spent quite a bit of time recently looking for a mod to implement this in the Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas and the only one I could find came bundled with a shitty rebalance mod in the same .esp file. I'd really like for the next one to have native support for this.
EDIT:
If any of you know how to make such a mod for Fallout 3 or Fallout New Vegas, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 26, 2015, 12:35:34 pm
What I'd really like to see in a Fallout game is one that actually tracks effects of SPECIAL scores above 10 and skills above 100 so that your stuff that boosts those things doesn't suddenly become worthless towards the end of the game.You were linked to one in the F:NV thread.
I've spent quite a bit of time recently looking for a mod to implement this in the Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas and the only one I could find came bundled with a shitty rebalance mod in the same .esp file. I'd really like for the next one to have native support for this.
EDIT:
If any of you know how to make such a mod for Fallout 3 or Fallout New Vegas, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Post by: Bohandas on July 26, 2015, 03:24:24 pm
What I'd really like to see in a Fallout game is one that actually tracks effects of SPECIAL scores above 10 and skills above 100 so that your stuff that boosts those things doesn't suddenly become worthless towards the end of the game.You were linked to one in the F:NV thread.
I've spent quite a bit of time recently looking for a mod to implement this in the Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas and the only one I could find came bundled with a shitty rebalance mod in the same .esp file. I'd really like for the next one to have native support for this.
EDIT:
If any of you know how to make such a mod for Fallout 3 or Fallout New Vegas, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Excellent! I'm still looking for one for Fallout 3 though (or possibly a way to make an edited version of this one that works in Fallout 3)
Post by: Aedel on July 26, 2015, 07:59:39 pm
Mass Effect 3 discussion:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
At the very best, you lose
Spoiler: mass effect derailment (click to show/hide)
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on July 27, 2015, 01:15:05 am
Mass Effect 3 discussion:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
At the very best, you loseSpoiler: mass effect derailment (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Aedel on July 27, 2015, 01:15:58 am
Mass Effect 3 discussion:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
At the very best, you loseSpoiler: mass effect derailment (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: BFEL on July 27, 2015, 08:59:06 am
Spoiler: Mass Efucked 3 (click to show/hide)
>.>
<.<
NO I'M NOT STILL BITTER!
Post by: Wimopy on July 27, 2015, 09:47:00 am
On the note of ending clips, I've got mixed emotions about them in general. On one side, it's nice to see how you affected the world in general, on the other, they can really be a lot different from what you think would happen if you had a personal choice.
Yeah, OWB ending is based on karma, but even as a saint I might think letting the brains experience the Wasteland is a good choice. If they turn out to be a threat, I'll convince them to come back or eliminate them. My karma is good, yeah, but I'm perfectly okay with murdering people.
I'd like for choices to be far more equal as well. Pitt was getting close, but not quite there, Wernher was too much of an asshole to be regarded as any sort of positive choice. An evil character would murder them on the spot. A good character would decide they're too barbaric. I think the ME3 endings were quite nice in this regard. With high enough military power, each choice had its merits and demerits and each could be justified by both a paragon and a renegade mentality. It's just that it messed up the story completely and didn't fit in. Remove the colour coding they had, along with the clips of "who would've chosen what" and you've got total ambiguity.
It's so nice when you can choose the same option in both a good and evil way. Sure, I might not blow up Megaton, but it's because I think it's far more exploitable and I just hate the guts of Tenpenny and Burke. Maybe a Lawful-Chaotic scale would add more flavour to choices.
I think I'm slipping between topics here. Dunno what's wrong with me these days.
Post by: notquitethere on July 27, 2015, 10:08:46 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 27, 2015, 10:12:34 am
What's that? The 'only witnesses' to your crimes are dirty, filthy, stinking liars and you would never do anything to the poor dwellers of this wasteland we live in?
...[SUCCEEDED] You're hired. Welcome to the NCR."
Post by: Krevsin on July 27, 2015, 10:13:16 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 27, 2015, 12:43:17 pm
And I LOVED NV. Its ending slides mattered to me, because it dictated whether I had, in my mind, fucked up or not. Moral Code: ENFORCED ON CRIMINALS
Didn't do OWB's stealth puzzles? Good job, assclown, place is now damn near uninhabitable. I made sure I finished it next time.
I do wonder if FO4 will have the serious tinge of fucked-up-ness as NV did, especially with the DLCs. Which is why I killed the Think Tank.
Post by: Rolan7 on July 27, 2015, 12:52:09 pm
Didn't do OWB's stealth puzzles? Good job, assclown, place is now damn near uninhabitable. I made sure I finished it next time.Wait what? *Checks wiki*
... Criminy, most of these OWB ending slides are just stupid. I know Big MT is supposed to be creepy and advanced but, even if you DO the stealth tests the facility goes mobile and full GLaDOS. It's arguably worse, and both results are completely arbitrary.
Post by: BFEL on July 27, 2015, 01:30:09 pm
the ending only changes based on your Galactic Readiness or whatever it was called
NO IT DOESN'T
ONLY THING AFFECTING THE ENDING IS COLOR CHOICE.
BECAUSE FUCK ALL THOSE OTHER CHOICES YOU MADE.
BFEL BITTERNESS PERCENTAGE: ERROR, SCALE EXPLODED
Post by: Wimopy on July 27, 2015, 01:57:41 pm
the ending only changes based on your Galactic Readiness or whatever it was called
NO IT DOESN'T
ONLY THING AFFECTING THE ENDING IS COLOR CHOICE.
BECAUSE FUCK ALL THOSE OTHER CHOICES YOU MADE.
BFEL BITTERNESS PERCENTAGE: ERROR, SCALE EXPLODED
Nah, you get more colours to choose from!
Also, it might be that ending mod, but there are slight changes if you're ready enough. Less destruction, more rebuilding or whatnot.
But yeah, I'm not gonna argue. The ending was disappointing as hell. So many choices carried over from previous mass effects. So many new choices. Almost everything came back to help or bite you. Then, it all amassed into Galactic Readiness numbers, which ultimately decided whether you could choose between the colours or be forced to pick one.
Yep. I really doubt Bethesda can screw it up that much, even if they're copying the dialogue wheel. (I'd still prefer more options over voiced ones though.)
Post by: Sergius on July 31, 2015, 12:24:46 pm
Not that there's a lot to do while waiting for people to come back with money other than clicking on the various resource buildings.
Post by: AlleeCat on July 31, 2015, 01:21:50 pm
For me, the ending slides are the most important aspect of a fallout game as they bring a sense of closure to the whole arrangement, with a faint glimmer of what happens after the game. The lack of them was what killed Fallout 3 for me. The stupid plot, the idiotic morality, all of those were things I was willing to tolerate. But I was genuinely interested in what happened with the world after I finished only to have a really stupid ending about sacrifice or somesuch tripe.The one reason I don't go back to Fallout 3 is the color palette. I know NV's color palette isn't much better, but it's just one of those weird subjective reasons I can't enjoy the game. It's like the reason I couldn't watch The Corpse Bride was because half of the movie had this blue filter over it that I hated.
Post by: Krevsin on July 31, 2015, 02:11:00 pm
I find that a lighting mod that removes the filter is a must-have. After that, FO3 becomes actually playable for my puny pre-war eyes.For me, the ending slides are the most important aspect of a fallout game as they bring a sense of closure to the whole arrangement, with a faint glimmer of what happens after the game. The lack of them was what killed Fallout 3 for me. The stupid plot, the idiotic morality, all of those were things I was willing to tolerate. But I was genuinely interested in what happened with the world after I finished only to have a really stupid ending about sacrifice or somesuch tripe.The one reason I don't go back to Fallout 3 is the color palette. I know NV's color palette isn't much better, but it's just one of those weird subjective reasons I can't enjoy the game. It's like the reason I couldn't watch The Corpse Bride was because half of the movie had this blue filter over it that I hated.
Post by: AlleeCat on July 31, 2015, 03:08:54 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on July 31, 2015, 03:14:49 pm
Post by: AlleeCat on July 31, 2015, 03:18:02 pm
Post by: Teneb on July 31, 2015, 03:45:01 pm
My laptop is a pile of crap that barely runs Crypt of the Necrodancer. Although somehow it manages to run The Talos Principle just fine on decent graphics so I have no idea. It definitely wouldn't be able to run FO3, though. It can't really run Oblivion, so...If it can't run Oblivion, it is a safe bet it won't run FO3. They use the same engine and I doubt there was much done in terms of optimization.
Post by: Tellemurius on July 31, 2015, 04:19:09 pm
FO3 was a Games for Windows game so Vista only, complete bitch to get it running on windows 7.My laptop is a pile of crap that barely runs Crypt of the Necrodancer. Although somehow it manages to run The Talos Principle just fine on decent graphics so I have no idea. It definitely wouldn't be able to run FO3, though. It can't really run Oblivion, so...If it can't run Oblivion, it is a safe bet it won't run FO3. They use the same engine and I doubt there was much done in terms of optimization.
Post by: Egan_BW on July 31, 2015, 04:28:42 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on July 31, 2015, 04:30:21 pm
Huh? I think I got FO3 running on XP.Same. And that *might* have have been before they removed the GFWL crap from it, but maybe not.
Actually I'm pretty sure I had GFWL running on XP for a while there. But then an update came out that "accidentally" broke it, for all or most XP users, and the response from MS on their official support forums was basically "lol upgrade".
Post by: Tellemurius on July 31, 2015, 04:34:56 pm
Huh? I think I got FO3 running on XP.I dunno I had issues trying to run it on my Pentium 4 system at the time. Just usually anything with GFWL I associate to Vista.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 31, 2015, 04:35:07 pm
I've had no problems running it on 7, 8 or even 10...FO3 was a Games for Windows game so Vista only, complete bitch to get it running on windows 7.My laptop is a pile of crap that barely runs Crypt of the Necrodancer. Although somehow it manages to run The Talos Principle just fine on decent graphics so I have no idea. It definitely wouldn't be able to run FO3, though. It can't really run Oblivion, so...If it can't run Oblivion, it is a safe bet it won't run FO3. They use the same engine and I doubt there was much done in terms of optimization.
Post by: Teneb on July 31, 2015, 04:36:32 pm
I think there were a few games that were locked to Vista/7 and had GFWL. Can't remember any, though, so I may be talking out of my backside.Huh? I think I got FO3 running on XP.I dunno I had issues trying to run it on my Pentium 4 system at the time. Just usually anything with GFWL I associate to Vista.
Post by: Tellemurius on July 31, 2015, 04:38:48 pm
Well I sure did. Crashes when you launch the game, crashes when starting a new game, got to the end where you get of the starter vault and hey, crashes the game :PI've had no problems running it on 7, 8 or even 10...FO3 was a Games for Windows game so Vista only, complete bitch to get it running on windows 7.My laptop is a pile of crap that barely runs Crypt of the Necrodancer. Although somehow it manages to run The Talos Principle just fine on decent graphics so I have no idea. It definitely wouldn't be able to run FO3, though. It can't really run Oblivion, so...If it can't run Oblivion, it is a safe bet it won't run FO3. They use the same engine and I doubt there was much done in terms of optimization.
From what I understand I fixed it with a dll file and using the 4gb patched exe.
Usually if they were then they are a Directx 10/11 game. For instance Gears of War pc port did not recognize windows 7 as a valid OS during my installation. That pissed me off.I think there were a few games that were locked to Vista/7 and had GFWL. Can't remember any, though, so I may be talking out of my backside.Huh? I think I got FO3 running on XP.I dunno I had issues trying to run it on my Pentium 4 system at the time. Just usually anything with GFWL I associate to Vista.
Post by: Sergius on August 13, 2015, 09:11:52 am
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on August 13, 2015, 12:05:29 pm
So... Shelter is out for Android. Installing it now, can't wait to find out exactly how badly it runs on my 2-year old phone, heh. Probably not better than when I tested it on an iPhone 4.
Well if it doesn't run well enough and you still want to play it, there's various ways of playing it on the PC.
Post by: jocan2003 on August 13, 2015, 12:19:41 pm
Post by: Sergius on August 13, 2015, 12:22:57 pm
So... Shelter is out for Android. Installing it now, can't wait to find out exactly how badly it runs on my 2-year old phone, heh. Probably not better than when I tested it on an iPhone 4.
Well if it doesn't run well enough and you still want to play it, there's various ways of playing it on the PC.
Been playing all morning and it's actually pretty smooth. I guess my only conclusion can be that the iPhone 4 is pretty crap.
Also my Motorola Razr is apparently 4 years old, not 2 :P
Post by: Sergius on September 10, 2015, 10:09:28 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1&v=q4D85q7CuNQ
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/G2jvIfxgbV8FJE28-tRHcCtqzY1u9H4QGIlJPCmJmLaVm3i8Wse0MGNZioNJlTqDFAEZjT5qKQiHENQxdp6tOA=w506-h285-n) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4D85q7CuNQ)
Post by: Fniff on September 10, 2015, 10:46:04 pm
Post by: AlleeCat on September 10, 2015, 11:37:43 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on September 11, 2015, 12:17:51 am
Post by: Wimopy on September 11, 2015, 05:05:37 am
"Didn't Watch The SPECIALs" achievement series please
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on September 11, 2015, 06:52:05 pm
Post by: Tellemurius on September 11, 2015, 08:05:04 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: AoshimaMichio on September 12, 2015, 01:55:29 am
Post by: RoguelikeRazuka on September 12, 2015, 03:14:53 am
Post by: IWishIWereSarah on September 12, 2015, 05:43:13 am
they removed skills like small guns, medicine, stealth etc?they showed it previously in released gameplay video : you only have the SPECIAL attributes and perks.
There are perks for the different weapon types, and some perks have levels (seen at least for the crafting ones), and some skills are now perks (maybe with levels?) : lockpick and stealth, at least.
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 12, 2015, 08:01:12 am
Hey did I get it correctly -- they removed skills like small guns, medicine, stealth etc?Most of the skills meant very little in FO3 anyway except for the jump points at 25, 50, 75, 100. Now they're just perk unlocks which simulate that instead of a meaningless 1-100 number.
Post by: RoguelikeRazuka on September 12, 2015, 09:41:19 am
Hey did I get it correctly -- they removed skills like small guns, medicine, stealth etc?Most of the skills meant very little in FO3 anyway except for the jump points at 25, 50, 75, 100. Now they're just perk unlocks which simulate that instead of a meaningless 1-100 number.
That's definitely not an excuse to cut any of them out or change the character developing system (because it was great already!). If some skills did mean very little in Fallout 3, the creators could make them matter in Fallout 4. Even though it positively needs to check out how the whole thing will work at first, I'm really trembling for the game now.
Post by: notquitethere on September 12, 2015, 09:49:16 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 12, 2015, 09:59:05 am
Post by: RoguelikeRazuka on September 12, 2015, 10:11:30 am
So you're not going to play it because they changed a mechanic? That's kind of ridiculous. At least give it a try, or check out some reviews. Deciding you hate it based on a single mechanical change before you've even seen how the game plays is just silly
I didn't say I would not play it at all (I'm still going to buy Fallout 4 within the first days it's on sale without seeing the scores it will have got), but considering how it turned out with Skyrim, I'm really afraid.
Post by: Teneb on September 12, 2015, 10:18:26 am
So you're not going to play it because they changed a mechanic? That's kind of ridiculous. At least give it a try, or check out some reviews. Deciding you hate it based on a single mechanical change before you've even seen how the game plays is just silly
I didn't say I would not play it at all (I'm still going to buy Fallout 4 within the first days it's on sale without seeing the scores it will have got), but considering how it turned out with Skyrim, I'm really afraid.
The only problem with Skyrim's perk system is that Bethesda did a poor job of balancing it. The concept itself is fine, other than the fact that you need to grind skill levels to unlock more perks.
Besides, experimenting with mechanics is a good thing. It can be pretty bad when a series just finds a niche and never ever leaves it, mechanics-wise.
Post by: scriver on September 12, 2015, 10:57:51 am
Post by: PTTG?? on September 12, 2015, 11:37:46 am
Post by: Neonivek on September 12, 2015, 11:44:07 am
I re-uploaded the vault 77 comic (http://i.imgur.com/HNSsi9N.jpg) to imgur.
And yet STILL a better vault then the ones in New Vegas.
Yes I am including the explody vault because that one was made of non-sense with how it developed... Did they vent stupid gas into it as well? It makes Megaton, the town that worships a nuclear bomb, look sane by comparison.
Hopefully Fallout 4 brings back interesting vaults.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on September 12, 2015, 11:48:04 am
Post by: Neonivek on September 12, 2015, 11:50:47 am
I don't see what the big deal is with making a perk-based skill system instead of "You must invest 25 points to use this sword, 50 points to use this chainsaw, and 75 to use this vibro-doom axe, and none of the in-between points will have any use other than to make it look like you're progressing more than you are".
Because Fallout had neither of those systems your suggesting...
To my knowledge even with 1 point in melee you could use the ultimate doom laser sword
Quote
The only problem with Skyrim's perk system is that Bethesda did a poor job of balancing it.
It... had a lot of other problems... or at least by "Poor job balancing it" you put it mildly because everything you could POSSIBLY say about balance was off.
---
But basically I see this perk system to basically be kind of dealing the final nails in the coffin of the Fallout feel on the series.
"Hey, remember when we could play the game our way?"
"Nope! Now quick! Get +50% energy weapon damage trait! and lets shoot at the boss!"
"But I have stealth"
"Just take the perk... you have to shoot the boss"
The game will be alright in the end. Still a fun game and it isn't like the game departing from the RPG feel wasn't in the game previously.
Heck people mostly complain about the RPG elements.
The days where having high science means you get more of the story is over.
Post by: Rolan7 on September 12, 2015, 12:00:50 pm
Skyrim was pretty fun, and maybe this will be too, but this simplification trend is bothering me. Particularly for Fallout, because I love the SPECIAL system.
But uh, skills did have significant effects besides unlocking perks in FO3 and NV.
Post by: Neonivek on September 12, 2015, 12:09:43 pm
That means in order to make the game fun for people who only play videogames casually... Casual players we will say. They need to add a few more simplifications.
By limiting your choices to a predefined path that can be easily observed it means that as a player you no longer need to think... and if you don't need to think, that means you can spend more time playing the game.
Post by: Kot on September 12, 2015, 12:19:48 pm
Post by: Bohandas on September 12, 2015, 12:27:03 pm
I don't see what the big deal is with making a perk-based skill system instead of "You must invest 25 points to use this sword, 50 points to use this chainsaw, and 75 to use this vibro-doom axe, and none of the in-between points will have any use other than to make it look like you're progressing more than you are".
Because Fallout had neither of those systems your suggesting...
To my knowledge even with 1 point in melee you could use the ultimate doom laser sword
You can equip it and fire it, but you need a minimum skill level to actually have the projectile go where you're pointing.
Post by: scriver on September 12, 2015, 12:27:25 pm
Post by: Neonivek on September 12, 2015, 12:42:27 pm
I don't see what the big deal is with making a perk-based skill system instead of "You must invest 25 points to use this sword, 50 points to use this chainsaw, and 75 to use this vibro-doom axe, and none of the in-between points will have any use other than to make it look like you're progressing more than you are".
Because Fallout had neither of those systems your suggesting...
To my knowledge even with 1 point in melee you could use the ultimate doom laser sword
You can equip it and fire it, but you need a minimum skill level to actually have the projectile go where you're pointing.
No, you didn't need that either.
Post by: Aseaheru on September 12, 2015, 12:46:47 pm
Wait, did that video just say Strength will be the stat requirement for crafting/modding weapons and armour?Some of them, yes.
Post by: Bohandas on September 12, 2015, 12:49:22 pm
I don't see what the big deal is with making a perk-based skill system instead of "You must invest 25 points to use this sword, 50 points to use this chainsaw, and 75 to use this vibro-doom axe, and none of the in-between points will have any use other than to make it look like you're progressing more than you are".
Because Fallout had neither of those systems your suggesting...
To my knowledge even with 1 point in melee you could use the ultimate doom laser sword
You can equip it and fire it, but you need a minimum skill level to actually have the projectile go where you're pointing.
No, you didn't need that either.
I was talking more about the guns than the sword mentioned in your example.
Post by: Dorsidwarf on September 12, 2015, 12:54:16 pm
Post by: Neonivek on September 12, 2015, 01:05:56 pm
I was talking more about the guns than the sword mentioned in your example.
You still didn't need a skill number to my knowledge. I might be misremembering but to my knowledge you could still use any weapon and they didn't give you huge penalties for not having a "minimum".
You still didn't want to use a Laser Gatling gun with 17 energy skill...
Post by: scriver on September 12, 2015, 01:09:03 pm
My example was a theoretical one, since I couldn't be assed to go look up an actual example of what was mentioned earlier in the threadYour post still isn't very on point though because nobody is arguing for the F3 system in itself, just against the removal of skills. Personally I would much rather have seen a return towards the old percentile-based system it originally was.
Post by: notquitethere on September 12, 2015, 01:14:45 pm
In this new era of fps-style 3D gaming, not being able to hit something right in front of you isn't accepted (partly because they never add dodging animation).
Skill numbers are fine for a party-based tactical roleplaying game, but for an immersive action rpg, perks make more sense.
Post by: Bohandas on September 12, 2015, 01:18:24 pm
I was talking more about the guns than the sword mentioned in your example.
You still didn't need a skill number to my knowledge. I might be misremembering but to my knowledge you could still use any weapon and they didn't give you huge penalties for not having a "minimum".
You still didn't want to use a Laser Gatling gun with 17 energy skill...
Just realized: I'm thinking of New Vegas, not Fallout 3, aren't I?
Post by: scriver on September 12, 2015, 01:19:34 pm
Post by: Neonivek on September 12, 2015, 01:29:03 pm
I've just replayed fallout 1 & 2 very recently. In those, (just like in Morrowind) you have a very low (often impossible) chance to hit anything if you don't have a high enough score in the relevant combat skill. A few percentage points more in a skill translats directly into a higher hit ratio.
In this new era of fps-style 3D gaming, not being able to hit something right in front of you isn't accepted (partly because they never add dodging animation).
Skill numbers are fine for a party-based tactical roleplaying game, but for an immersive action rpg, perks make more sense.
Well it is more because they "assume" that in the tactical game that you aren't just running to a set spot but actively dodging and moving around.
If you had a lousy score it typically means you flat out don't know how to use your weapon. Something that REALLY isn't reflected in the Fallout 3 and New Vegas.
Oddly enough I only seen one game where they actually DID have skill eventually have the character outright use a weapon properly but wouldn't until then (not just a flat out accuracy or damage penalty)
In Fallout 3 and NV your character is pretty much a master of all weapons at skill 1.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 12, 2015, 01:42:19 pm
Post by: scriver on September 12, 2015, 01:49:31 pm
edit: this was not meant to come off as srs bznzzz as it might have done.
Post by: Rolan7 on September 12, 2015, 01:51:20 pm
Post by: Neonivek on September 12, 2015, 01:52:43 pm
Neonivek that's not true for New Vegas. Pretty much every weapon has a strength and skill requirement. If you don't meet the requirements, the weapon will be extremely inaccurate, or very slow in the case of melee weapons.
Yes but that is due to magic accuracy and speed penalties.
You need to have the skill to know you need to rub chicken grease on your shotgun to make it shoot properly.
Your character doesn't hold the gun wrong, jam it, or miss load it. His bullets just chose to go somewhere other than where you aim.
Post by: Krevsin on September 12, 2015, 02:43:47 pm
Magic accuracy and speed penalties were how FO1 and FO2 handled it on a purely mechanical basis as well. Neither of them simulated holding the gun wrong or improper gun lubrication.Neonivek that's not true for New Vegas. Pretty much every weapon has a strength and skill requirement. If you don't meet the requirements, the weapon will be extremely inaccurate, or very slow in the case of melee weapons.
Yes but that is due to magic accuracy and speed penalties.
You need to have the skill to know you need to rub chicken grease on your shotgun to make it shoot properly.
Your character doesn't hold the gun wrong, jam it, or miss load it. His bullets just chose to go somewhere other than where you aim.
Well remember this is a Triple-A title now. That means that it needs to pander to people who maybe play a videogame once every month or so. The Casual marketThis is entirely and completely bollocks.
That means in order to make the game fun for people who only play videogames casually... Casual players we will say. They need to add a few more simplifications.
By limiting your choices to a predefined path that can be easily observed it means that as a player you no longer need to think... and if you don't need to think, that means you can spend more time playing the game.
Neither FO3 nor Skyrim were aimed at a casual audience and neither completely removed player agency and replaced it with predetermined paths. And they were both, as you say, "triple A titles".
You obviously never played FO3 or New Vegas where many tidbits of fluff were hidden behind locked terminals and locked doors.QuoteThe only problem with Skyrim's perk system is that Bethesda did a poor job of balancing it.
It... had a lot of other problems... or at least by "Poor job balancing it" you put it mildly because everything you could POSSIBLY say about balance was off.
---
But basically I see this perk system to basically be kind of dealing the final nails in the coffin of the Fallout feel on the series.
"Hey, remember when we could play the game our way?"
"Nope! Now quick! Get +50% energy weapon damage trait! and lets shoot at the boss!"
"But I have stealth"
"Just take the perk... you have to shoot the boss"
The game will be alright in the end. Still a fun game and it isn't like the game departing from the RPG feel wasn't in the game previously.
Heck people mostly complain about the RPG elements.
The days where having high science means you get more of the story is over.
As far as the perks go, wait for the game to actually come out before commenting on what the perks are and will be. Looking at Skyrim for what it'll be like is like playing Oblivion and then talking about Fallout 3's levelling mechanics.
You don't know any details about it and stop pretending like you do. Wait for either the game to come out or something more substantial to be revealed concerning the how's and why's of the game's perk system.
Post by: ShoesandHats on September 12, 2015, 03:07:17 pm
That said, I'm honestly not sure how this game could turn out bad. Mediocre I could maybe see, but honestly I'm not sure how they could fuck it up enough for it to be considered bad. It looks like it's turned out well from what we've seen however, so I'm expecting it to be good.
Post by: Neonivek on September 12, 2015, 03:13:17 pm
Quote
Magic accuracy and speed penalties were how FO1 and FO2 handled it on a purely mechanical basis as well. Neither of them simulated holding the gun wrong or improper gun lubrication
As I said it extrapolated. There is more going on in a battle then what is shown.
Unlike Fallout 3 where what you see is 100% what is going on.
Post by: BigD145 on September 12, 2015, 03:15:51 pm
Is anyone here going to be getting the season pass? Normally I'd completely write off something like that, but Bethesda usually releases around 3 or 4 pieces of good DLC, so I'm definitely considering it. I will, however, wait to see if the game is actually good first.
That said, I'm honestly not sure how this game could turn out bad. Mediocre I could maybe see, but honestly I'm not sure how they could fuck it up enough for it to be considered bad. It looks like it's turned out well from what we've seen however, so I'm expecting it to be good.
By the time the last DLC comes out the first couple will be seriously discounted. If the base game doesn't hold out long enough for DLC to be discounted then it's probably not going to be a good game.
Post by: Neonivek on September 12, 2015, 03:18:42 pm
Too many games have burned me on this... Looking at you Shadow of Mordor! With your Season pass that I barely feel was worth 5 bucks.
I'll just wait until they produce One piece of DLC that justifies the season pass first.
Post by: miauw62 on September 12, 2015, 03:47:43 pm
And how is this different from the first games?????Neonivek that's not true for New Vegas. Pretty much every weapon has a strength and skill requirement. If you don't meet the requirements, the weapon will be extremely inaccurate, or very slow in the case of melee weapons.
Yes but that is due to magic accuracy and speed penalties.
You need to have the skill to know you need to rub chicken grease on your shotgun to make it shoot properly.
Your character doesn't hold the gun wrong, jam it, or miss load it. His bullets just chose to go somewhere other than where you aim.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 12, 2015, 04:34:32 pm
Neonivek that's not true for New Vegas. Pretty much every weapon has a strength and skill requirement. If you don't meet the requirements, the weapon will be extremely inaccurate, or very slow in the case of melee weapons.
Yes but that is due to magic accuracy and speed penalties.
You need to have the skill to know you need to rub chicken grease on your shotgun to make it shoot properly.
Your character doesn't hold the gun wrong, jam it, or miss load it. His bullets just chose to go somewhere other than where you aim.
...but maintaining stuff comes under repair, anyway, guns included.
And I'll be really honest, here. Aside from maybe a few particularly arcane firearms, you can really just pick them up and use them. They are not overly complicated to operate, normally by design. If I picked up a gun, I'd be quite capable of using it. The ones I wouldn't, I could fiddle around with for a minute and then know how.
Did you need training to swap the batteries in your Gameboy as a kid? Well, no, and most energy weapons are even simpler to operate than Guns. Swap the battery, pull the trigger.
So the relevant skill - i.e. how well you use them - only affecting accuracy is pretty reasonable. It's not like these has been different in any of the fallout games.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on September 12, 2015, 05:21:00 pm
QuoteMagic accuracy and speed penalties were how FO1 and FO2 handled it on a purely mechanical basis as well. Neither of them simulated holding the gun wrong or improper gun lubrication
As I said it extrapolated. There is more going on in a battle then what is shown.
Unlike Fallout 3 where what you see is 100% what is going on.
Having just played both and tactics.. Yeah there is nothing more going on in a battle then what is shown to you, and even then if it was it's due to an older system, an isometric view and otherwise.
Post by: ShoesandHats on September 13, 2015, 12:11:00 am
Post by: Krevsin on September 13, 2015, 12:34:11 am
Fallout 3 did not have the skill penalties outside VATS IIRC. That was a thing added in by mods and NV.QuoteMagic accuracy and speed penalties were how FO1 and FO2 handled it on a purely mechanical basis as well. Neither of them simulated holding the gun wrong or improper gun lubrication
As I said it extrapolated. There is more going on in a battle then what is shown.
Unlike Fallout 3 where what you see is 100% what is going on.
And in NV you also do not see everything. Perhaps your character flinches, pulls the trigger instead of squeezing it or adjusts too little or too much for the recoil or any of those minor things that the devs did not have the time, money or desire to animate. adding flavour to a misfire in olden RPGs was as simple as adding some flavour text to a failed roll. Nowadays, it takes a lot more work to do the same.
You can extrapolate anything from a game if you accept that WYSIWYG does not apply and older RPGs very heavily relied on that, with their isometric perspective and lack of animations (FO1 and FO2 did not have a different character sprite for each weapon. Does that mean that your character magically transformed your G11 into what looks like some sort of a hunting rifle?) and relying heavily on flavour text. The same applies to modern RPGs, even with their abundance of animations and details, some things aren't going to be animated. Though they could have bothered to add in jamming of worn-down weapons.
Anyway, I see this simplified, perk-based system as a step away from pure RPGs. Now I consider this a mixed blessing. On the one hand, it would seem that combat is going to be more like an FPS, relying more on your own skill at shooting than numbers. Which I consider a good thing because the combat in FO3 and NV was this weird fusion of RPG mechanics and first person perspective shooting that didn't really work well at all. Especially in FO3 where your skill in the weapon category only influenced your VATS performance so you had these weird moments when you could shoot everything no problem in real-time but missed every shot while in VATS. So I could see the changes to combat brought about by a mostly perk-based system as a good thing.
Now the actual RPG stuff, I am more miffed about the change of. While it is true that speech, science and lockpicking had set points at which you could do things (except for speech in FO3, which had percentage-based success rates, though the set points were still there), it was a system that more easily lent itself to using drugs and skill magazines (in NV) to overcome what would otherwise be an insurmountable challenge. Now, I don't know how it'll be handled in FO4, maybe they'll roll those skills into SPECIAL characteristics, a prospect that I do not feel happy about since that'd mean you keep what you have at the beginning throughout the game, changing it only very rarely and late-game, or maybe they'll roll it into perks, emulating the "set points of advancement" mechanic of 3 and NV, which begs the question of how drugs, skill magazines and books will be handled and of course why would a player choose the other perks. Either way, I will have to play the game and see.
Also is it just me or have traits been axed? I can't remember them being in the character creation presentation at E3.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on September 13, 2015, 01:14:32 am
SO THEY DID REMOVE SKILLS?
awh, shit
Post by: Neonivek on September 13, 2015, 01:48:20 am
WAIT
SO THEY DID REMOVE SKILLS?
awh, shit
In all fairness I have seen RPGs that do that, where it is about stacking widely different talents and trying to collect complementary ones.
Unfortunately my premonitions don't exactly predict that this is being done out of a genuine desire to innovate the gameplay so much as... make it easier to play with less RPG elements to get in the way :P
Post by: scriver on September 13, 2015, 03:14:56 am
Also is it just me or have traits been axed? I can't remember them being in the character creation presentation at E3.
Traits wasn't in F3 either, iirc, although New Vegas brought them back. Still were just exclusive perks chosen at the start of the game, though, and showed up in the perk menu. But going by F3 there will be no perks.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on September 13, 2015, 03:31:27 am
Post by: ShoesandHats on September 13, 2015, 03:45:05 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on September 13, 2015, 04:03:40 am
Post by: Krevsin on September 13, 2015, 04:04:32 am
I guarantee there will still be skill checks, they'll probably just check to see if you have a high enough rank in the relevant perk. That's basically how it worked in NV anyway, most skill checks were just multiples of 20 or 25.They were also like that in FO3, but hidden behind the percentages.
I liked the NV system. lent itself well to drug and magazine abuse.
Also speech could be tied to charisma now that they said SPECIAL will be more central to character development.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 13, 2015, 04:45:59 am
Post by: Neonivek on September 13, 2015, 04:47:39 am
I kind of miss Fallout 1 and 2s fun way of handling luck where it just entirely altered the layout of the world.
Ok I am exaggerating but I do miss it... Though I doubt they will bring back that mechanic... mostly because the change in focus.
Post by: Wimopy on September 13, 2015, 04:53:50 am
You know what would be hilarious though? High skill checks that lead to a worse outcome. Like, you know your RobCo OS inside-out, so you try and use a debug override code, but it backfires because these robots are using a different/custom/whatever version of the OS.
I think the "highest level check is always best/easiest option" thinking should be replaced with a sort of dialogue in which you give thought to your choices.
Doubt this will come up with a dialogue wheel though...
Post by: RoguelikeRazuka on September 13, 2015, 05:35:35 am
Post by: Krevsin on September 13, 2015, 07:02:43 am
The wheel's allright itself (kind of matches the standarts of 2015), but how many responses will it possibly allow for?That's another concern of mine, since in the E3 demo, it looked like it had only 4 responses, corresponding with the 4 buttons on the xbox gamepad.
If that's the case, we can expect some serious branching of dialogue.
Post by: Wimopy on September 13, 2015, 07:14:12 am
Besides, I'm expecting this is more for console compatibility and making voiced dialogue somewhat easier.
What causes concern for me with this is mods that add dialogue. They won't have voice (not the same anyway, unless they use cut content or whatever), which will be in heavy contrast with the main game.
Ah well. We'll have to wait and see how it goes. For now, I'm interested in any changes to what the SPECIALs effect.
Post by: Krevsin on September 13, 2015, 07:50:52 am
It might have something like ME's [Investigate] option though.Eh, mods that added NPC dialogue in both NV and FO3 didn't have spoken lines most of the times so it's something that won't bother many people. Just turn on the subtitles I guess.
Besides, I'm expecting this is more for console compatibility and making voiced dialogue somewhat easier.
What causes concern for me with this is mods that add dialogue. They won't have voice (not the same anyway, unless they use cut content or whatever), which will be in heavy contrast with the main game.
Ah well. We'll have to wait and see how it goes. For now, I'm interested in any changes to what the SPECIALs effect.
Either that or horrendous amateur voiceacting. Which, to be honest, I kind of want.
Post by: Sergius on September 13, 2015, 04:23:27 pm
I guarantee there will still be skill checks, they'll probably just check to see if you have a high enough rank in the relevant perk. That's basically how it worked in NV anyway, most skill checks were just multiples of 20 or 25.They were also like that in FO3, but hidden behind the percentages.
Actually FO3 used a dice roll for speech checks, which was annoying because it forced you to reload even if you had high skill, and reloading enough times enabled success even with a crappy score. NV changed it to a simple unlock, which was more fair, I suppose.
Some dialogue options were also fake speech checks, they only had one outcome (like, "(Speech 100/100) Can I have more money?" "Nope, I don't have any money.")
Post by: Flying Dice on September 13, 2015, 05:41:12 pm
It might have something like ME's [Investigate] option though.Eh, mods that added NPC dialogue in both NV and FO3 didn't have spoken lines most of the times so it's something that won't bother many people. Just turn on the subtitles I guess.
Besides, I'm expecting this is more for console compatibility and making voiced dialogue somewhat easier.
What causes concern for me with this is mods that add dialogue. They won't have voice (not the same anyway, unless they use cut content or whatever), which will be in heavy contrast with the main game.
Ah well. We'll have to wait and see how it goes. For now, I'm interested in any changes to what the SPECIALs effect.
Either that or horrendous amateur voiceacting. Which, to be honest, I kind of want.
Actually, there've been a fair number of FO/TES mods with fully voiced questlines and companions at a fairly high level of quality, so I'm confident that there'll be the same for FO4 given time.
Post by: Mech#4 on September 13, 2015, 10:33:51 pm
Post by: Lightningfalcon on September 14, 2015, 12:23:44 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on September 14, 2015, 12:56:39 am
Post by: Krevsin on September 14, 2015, 03:55:31 am
But I don't want quality voiceacting. ;DIt might have something like ME's [Investigate] option though.Eh, mods that added NPC dialogue in both NV and FO3 didn't have spoken lines most of the times so it's something that won't bother many people. Just turn on the subtitles I guess.
Besides, I'm expecting this is more for console compatibility and making voiced dialogue somewhat easier.
What causes concern for me with this is mods that add dialogue. They won't have voice (not the same anyway, unless they use cut content or whatever), which will be in heavy contrast with the main game.
Ah well. We'll have to wait and see how it goes. For now, I'm interested in any changes to what the SPECIALs effect.
Either that or horrendous amateur voiceacting. Which, to be honest, I kind of want.
Actually, there've been a fair number of FO/TES mods with fully voiced questlines and companions at a fairly high level of quality, so I'm confident that there'll be the same for FO4 given time.
I find such delight in horrible voiceacting.
Post by: Wimopy on September 14, 2015, 04:52:25 am
Anyways, as I said, better to wait it out, maybe it won't be a problem at all.
Post by: Rolan7 on September 14, 2015, 07:59:12 am
Yess, very amateur voice acting can be quite charming.Actually, there've been a fair number of FO/TES mods with fully voiced questlines and companions at a fairly high level of quality, so I'm confident that there'll be the same for FO4 given time.But I don't want quality voiceacting. ;D
I find such delight in horrible voiceacting.
Post by: Shadowlord on September 14, 2015, 09:12:43 am
R E S P E C T
Post by: PTTG?? on September 15, 2015, 12:16:20 am
Post by: AoshimaMichio on September 15, 2015, 12:56:22 am
Post by: Rolan7 on September 15, 2015, 10:24:22 am
Post by: Egan_BW on September 16, 2015, 08:29:12 pm
Link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlC8cTvk9Us)
Post by: Wimopy on September 17, 2015, 02:52:20 am
Post by: Neonivek on September 17, 2015, 04:20:16 am
Yess, very amateur voice acting can be quite charming.Actually, there've been a fair number of FO/TES mods with fully voiced questlines and companions at a fairly high level of quality, so I'm confident that there'll be the same for FO4 given time.But I don't want quality voiceacting. ;D
I find such delight in horrible voiceacting.
It has to do with the more natural aspect of amateurs. Hollywood has a very artificial grandness about how they act that is completely contrary to how human beings act that often shines through whether they are being serious or wacky.
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 17, 2015, 04:35:42 am
Also its nice to have some variety. I mean there are a LOT of npcs in skyrim who use the same voice and it can be kind of jarring to hear belethor's voice coming from a random guy you pass in solitude.Yess, very amateur voice acting can be quite charming.Actually, there've been a fair number of FO/TES mods with fully voiced questlines and companions at a fairly high level of quality, so I'm confident that there'll be the same for FO4 given time.But I don't want quality voiceacting. ;D
I find such delight in horrible voiceacting.
It has to do with the more natural aspect of amateurs. Hollywood has a very artificial grandness about how they act that is completely contrary to how human beings act that often shines through whether they are being serious or wacky.
Post by: RoguelikeRazuka on September 17, 2015, 09:32:20 am
Post by: NullForceOmega on September 17, 2015, 09:50:55 am
Post by: Rolan7 on September 17, 2015, 09:57:10 am
Also these videos are probably noncanon/silly? I haven't watched them though. I guess the creator could be in on the FEV program.
Post by: notquitethere on September 17, 2015, 10:15:55 am
Post by: Egan_BW on September 17, 2015, 10:18:10 am
Post by: Shadowlord on September 17, 2015, 10:37:07 am
Post by: miauw62 on September 17, 2015, 10:45:58 am
No that's okay, Bethesda doesn't even try to maintain any sense of the lore of Fallout. For instance, the drug 'jet' was created right around the time that Fallout 2 occurred, it was created by a prodigal pre-teen chemist by the name of 'Myron' in Reno. So how does this chemical cocktail appear inside of sealed locations on the east coast that apparently haven't been used for up to 200 years? As a further note, I'm not just talking about random loot dropped in containers by the loot list, I'm talking about hand placed objects within the cell.The same way you find enchanted Orcish Greatswords in dungeons where all the enemies drop Draugr Swords in Skyrim :P
Post by: PTTG?? on September 17, 2015, 10:48:53 am
Post by: NullForceOmega on September 17, 2015, 10:50:55 am
Post by: Flying Dice on September 17, 2015, 04:30:36 pm
I am not starting a debate about what can be made by a chemist. There was a question about lore and consistency, and I was responding to it.Jet is stated to be a methamphetamine. And, surprise surprise, methamphetamines are older than WWII and come in a variety of forms. The logical explanation is that (le gasp) methamphetamines already existed pre-War, and Myron's innovation was developing a type of methamphetamine based on brahmin droppings, i.e. one which could be easily manufactured in postapocalyptic circumstances.
But yeah, we can blindly rub the lorepole instead.
Post by: Egan_BW on September 17, 2015, 04:44:43 pm
pass it over here next
But yeah, we can blindly rub the lorepole instead.
Post by: Graknorke on September 17, 2015, 05:02:13 pm
Post by: AlleeCat on September 18, 2015, 02:00:36 pm
Post by: Yoink on September 18, 2015, 02:08:37 pm
Post by: Aedel on September 18, 2015, 02:13:41 pm
Didn't I read somewhere that they had originally planned to include real-world drugs in FO3, but some whiny bitch complained and they had to swap them with fictional names instead?
Yes.
Post by: Teneb on September 18, 2015, 02:15:04 pm
Didn't I read somewhere that they had originally planned to include real-world drugs in FO3, but some whiny bitch complained and they had to swap them with fictional names instead?It's also the reason why (all the way from the first game to now) that they call them "chems", rather than drugs.
Post by: Yoink on September 18, 2015, 02:19:51 pm
...Hey, I don't think I've said this for a while, but I'm actually kind of excited for this game.
Post by: Tellemurius on September 18, 2015, 02:31:27 pm
Post by: Graknorke on September 18, 2015, 02:48:07 pm
Didn't I read somewhere that they had originally planned to include real-world drugs in FO3, but some whiny bitch complained and they had to swap them with fictional names instead?The first one, but yes.
Post by: BFEL on September 18, 2015, 06:33:58 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 18, 2015, 06:35:41 pm
:P
Post by: Yoink on September 18, 2015, 06:39:58 pm
Did I not complain bitterly enough about the changes Bethesda have announced for the new game so far?
Post by: Teneb on September 18, 2015, 06:50:41 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 18, 2015, 07:15:12 pm
BFEL was raging at whomever censored the drugs in the first Fallout, Giglamesh, not at Yoink.
(http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/012/132/thatsthejoke.jpg)
Post by: Yoink on September 18, 2015, 07:18:19 pm
Post by: Putnam on September 18, 2015, 09:27:58 pm
they would've rated the game R18 (aka banned) if they had real drug names
because video games are for children ONLY and everything that can be done in video games is glorifying that thing
Post by: Neyvn on September 18, 2015, 10:48:35 pm
it was Australiayep Australia. Where our PM changes like a game of Two Up. Someday we gamers will go into politics and fix this shit instead of letting old crones make the decisions...
they would've rated the game R18 (aka banned) if they had real drug names
because video games are for children ONLY and everything that can be done in video games is glorifying that thing
Post by: ShoesandHats on September 18, 2015, 10:57:58 pm
Post by: Bohandas on September 19, 2015, 11:19:03 am
it was Australia
they would've rated the game R18 (aka banned) if they had real drug names
because video games are for children ONLY and everything that can be done in video games is glorifying that thing
Why'd hey even bother trying to get their game approved in Austrailia. That's like trying to get it approved in North Korea.
Post by: Krevsin on September 19, 2015, 12:27:27 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on September 19, 2015, 12:54:24 pm
Someday we gamers will go into politics and fix this shit instead of letting old crones make the decisions...
Spoiler: POLITICS (click to show/hide)
Bohanadas: What about Germany? My understanding is that most companies seem to change things just for Germany to make it work, like giving everyone green blood or removing the stuff Germany doesn't allow.
Post by: Bohandas on September 19, 2015, 02:02:57 pm
Post by: Graknorke on September 19, 2015, 02:10:37 pm
Also I'm pretty sure this doesn't come under freedom of speech. Age restrictions on media are pretty standard for things that are films are games and sometimes music I think?
Post by: miauw62 on September 19, 2015, 02:25:09 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on September 19, 2015, 02:39:16 pm
... Except, no, Saints Row 4 and State of Decay were refused classification recently. Even as R18+. They were banned for "graphic sexual violence" (an "anal probe" weapon in SR4) and use of illegal drugs as powerups (both).
So... If Fallout did call the drugs drugs, or clearly admitted that some of them were real old-world drugs, it would *still* be banned. "Refused Classification".
Post by: Bohandas on September 19, 2015, 03:09:52 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on September 19, 2015, 03:20:41 pm
Post by: Bohandas on September 19, 2015, 03:41:05 pm
Also I'm pretty sure this doesn't come under freedom of speech.
Freedom of the Press then.
Post by: Krevsin on September 19, 2015, 04:05:20 pm
Not that either.Also I'm pretty sure this doesn't come under freedom of speech.
Freedom of the Press then.
The closest you can get is Freedom of Artistic Expression, but very few people with actual power in their hands consider games as an art form.
Post by: Neonivek on September 19, 2015, 05:24:56 pm
Both power armor and energy weapons used to be end of the game equipment where you seriously could start taking on cities because no one really stands a chance against you. Yet now they are low to mid-tier starting points where ordinary armor is often just as good or in a few cases even better.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on September 19, 2015, 05:26:17 pm
There was a laser pistol in the starting house in NV...
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 19, 2015, 05:29:25 pm
FO2 there were a lot more guns, powerful guns, and a lot more enemies very resistant to energy weapons, especially towards the end.
F3 and NV, of course, energy weapons were much more plentiful, and equal to guns (roughly).
So that was only really true for the first game. But I do agree about the power armour, for the most part.
Post by: Rolan7 on September 19, 2015, 05:51:01 pm
Post by: Wimopy on September 19, 2015, 05:55:54 pm
The problem I see is that power armour feels weaker than ot should be. I mean, a half-naked Viper with a peashooter that's in worse condition than Megaton after the nuke detonates can easily pick you off.
I think the fact that the world scales doesn't do good. Or if it does scale, give upper limits to some enemies. Kinda like how Borderlands 2 had it in the first playthrough.
Post by: Neonivek on September 19, 2015, 06:00:22 pm
Heck, the guides I read for Fallout Tactics indicated that energy (and small) weapons were practically useless at the end - only big guns were practical. Though it was a guide, so they may have just been best.
No I could believe it. Sometimes games overcompensate against the best weapons and end up giving enemies such resistances that it makes them nigh useless.
Small... Yeah. They were always kind of not something you brought to the final fight. Though for most of the game they were a solid option especially when it came to ammo conservation. Though you always knew that in advance and often covered your weapons.
I think the fact that the world scales doesn't do good. Or if it does scale, give upper limits to some enemies. Kinda like how Borderlands 2 had it in the first playthrough.
Fallout 3 kind of did scaling well. In that while things do scale to your level, you gain power much faster then they do. So early on 3 bandits is a deadly encounter, but later on you can take on 15 of them (some of them with rocket launchers). It helped that the scaling wasn't obscene like in Oblivion... Even a end game bandit isn't that much tougher then the starting bandits (I think at max they are only... twice as tough)
New Vegas had the same scaling system to my knowledge. Yet it suffered from the fact that it never likes to send more then 3 enemies after you (or 4 I forget) and never changed things up. So those three assassins were the same random encounter you got at level 5 through infinity, and that was it.
Post by: Bohandas on September 19, 2015, 06:04:45 pm
Post by: Neonivek on September 19, 2015, 06:05:31 pm
Install Warzones.
Is that a New Vegas Mod?
Post by: Krevsin on September 19, 2015, 07:02:53 pm
I am kind of surprised by the game's sort of power seep in this case.Hang on a tick, I don't recall them saying anything about power armour being low to mid-tier starting point.
Both power armor and energy weapons used to be end of the game equipment where you seriously could start taking on cities because no one really stands a chance against you. Yet now they are low to mid-tier starting points where ordinary armor is often just as good or in a few cases even better.
I mean sure it was present in the E3 demo, but for all we know that was most likely just there for demonstration purposes.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 20, 2015, 09:02:40 am
I think the fact that the world scales doesn't do good. Or if it does scale, give upper limits to some enemies. Kinda like how Borderlands 2 had it in the first playthrough.
Fallout 3 kind of did scaling well. In that while things do scale to your level, you gain power much faster then they do. So early on 3 bandits is a deadly encounter, but later on you can take on 15 of them (some of them with rocket launchers). It helped that the scaling wasn't obscene like in Oblivion... Even a end game bandit isn't that much tougher then the starting bandits (I think at max they are only... twice as tough)
F3's scaling system was good... unless you installed Broken Steel and got to a high level, when suddenyl there was nothing but super mutant overlords, albino radscorpions, and feral ghoul reavers, and all much tougher and damaging than anything that had come before.
Post by: Neonivek on September 20, 2015, 10:12:50 am
I think the fact that the world scales doesn't do good. Or if it does scale, give upper limits to some enemies. Kinda like how Borderlands 2 had it in the first playthrough.
Fallout 3 kind of did scaling well. In that while things do scale to your level, you gain power much faster then they do. So early on 3 bandits is a deadly encounter, but later on you can take on 15 of them (some of them with rocket launchers). It helped that the scaling wasn't obscene like in Oblivion... Even a end game bandit isn't that much tougher then the starting bandits (I think at max they are only... twice as tough)
F3's scaling system was good... unless you installed Broken Steel and got to a high level, when suddenyl there was nothing but super mutant overlords, albino radscorpions, and feral ghoul reavers, and all much tougher and damaging than anything that had come before.
Now that explains why I've spoken to people who said that the scaling was absolutely atrocious.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 20, 2015, 10:39:15 am
The scaling in the DLCs tended to be a bit wonky. Point Lookout, all the hillbillies did an additional, unblockable 35 damage a hit, which made them terribly powerful for mutant rednecks with old shotguns, same as the SM Overlords; the aliens in Mothership Zeta did a Olympic standing leap in health when you crossed the threshold they gained forcefields.
The Pitt and Operation Anchorage were pretty solid, though, even if they tended towards the easy.
Post by: Bohandas on September 20, 2015, 11:53:11 am
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on September 20, 2015, 01:25:59 pm
Post by: AoshimaMichio on September 20, 2015, 02:07:32 pm
They also had like what, +25 damage resistance? The things had more defense then the Enclave power armors!
I'm not saying it was aliens, but...
Post by: Krevsin on September 20, 2015, 02:36:55 pm
It is the only way.
Post by: Sergius on September 20, 2015, 03:15:24 pm
Their shields were like 10x better than Daedric (and lighter and more durable too) and they did stupid amounts of damage compared to the HIGHEST leveled monsters in the base game.
I eneded up ditching whatever I was using and just picking up shields and swords from the goblins and throwing them away when they got broken, ad infinitum, to be able to survive. A shield wouldn't last me more than two battles.
Post by: Wimopy on September 20, 2015, 05:35:35 pm
What, he's wearing a white t-shirt and some denim, I'm sure my ballistic fist will blow him away!
Uhum, yeah. That went good. Even with ALL the unarmed perks of NV and 3, it was hard. They're basically Super Mutants in hillbilly disguise.
Reminds me of that cockroach alien wearing the Edgar suit in MIB.
Anyway, point is, unarmoured should mean low DR. And really, I just want to have enemies be consistent. A mole rat should be the same at level 5 and 30. At higher levels, just spawn more or mix some "alphas" in. Just not with disproportionately inflated DR and health, but stats and skills mainly.
Oh yeah, what about the DT vs DR thing while we're at it? I find DR strange. Do they mean to tell me that after a few attacks power armour becomes negligible?
Not sure I understood how defense works entirely though.
Post by: Teneb on September 20, 2015, 05:38:25 pm
Anyone remember the goblins in TES Tribunal? They were tiny people with bone shields and weapons that lived in sewers.They were just slightly shorter than most races And I just checked the stats, the goblin shield had 20 armour rating (500 durability), while the daedric had 80 (1600 durability). The goblin sword has an attack range of 10-35 for all attacks. The highest attack range of the daedric sword is 1-44). Sorry, but not the case there, maybe with the exception of the sword. That said, the dark brotherhood armour you could get at level 1 with the expansion installed is the second best non-artifact light armour in the game.
Their shields were like 10x better than Daedric (and lighter and more durable too) and they did stupid amounts of damage compared to the HIGHEST leveled monsters in the base game.
I eneded up ditching whatever I was using and just picking up shields and swords from the goblins and throwing them away when they got broken, ad infinitum, to be able to survive. A shield wouldn't last me more than two battles.
Point Lookout hillbillies were outrageously strong, though.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 20, 2015, 05:42:32 pm
Yeah, Point Lookout was crazy. I looked and saw a lumbering brute.
What, he's wearing a white t-shirt and some denim, I'm sure my ballistic fist will blow him away!
Uhum, yeah. That went good. Even with ALL the unarmed perks of NV and 3, it was hard. They're basically Super Mutants in hillbilly disguise.
Reminds me of that cockroach alien wearing the Edgar suit in MIB.
Anyway, point is, unarmoured should mean low DR. And really, I just want to have enemies be consistent. A mole rat should be the same at level 5 and 30. At higher levels, just spawn more or mix some "alphas" in. Just not with disproportionately inflated DR and health, but stats and skills mainly.
Oh yeah, what about the DT vs DR thing while we're at it? I find DR strange. Do they mean to tell me that after a few attacks power armour becomes negligible?
Not sure I understood how defense works entirely though.
DR just reduces damage by a percentage.
If you have a DR of 50%, and they shoot you with a 30 damage gun, you'll take 15 damage. DR is capped at 85%.
DT is a straight subduction. If you have a DT of 20, and they shoot at you with a 30 damage gun, you'll take 10 damage. DT can't, however, reduce it below 20%.
If you have both, DR is considered first.
So if you have 50% DR and 20 DT, and they shoot you with a 30 damage gun
DR: 30 - 50% = 15
DT: 15 - DT = -5, so 20% of 15 is 3
You'd take 3 damage.
Makes sense?
Post by: scriver on September 20, 2015, 05:47:53 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 20, 2015, 05:53:13 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on September 20, 2015, 10:31:46 pm
Post by: Yoink on September 20, 2015, 11:18:38 pm
The obvious solution is to skin the hillbillies and wear them over power armour.This is something FO4's crafting system should let you do. That would be amazing.
It is the only way.
And yeah, DR could get pretty ridiculous... I remember running around mostly naked in NV beating the shit out of people in melee.
That was actually really fun.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 21, 2015, 12:28:49 am
Modded? 'Cause in NV there were only three bits of clothing that gave DR 3/1 and a couple consumables that gave more, at least that I remember. Do know that a lot of modded gear was massively OP because it had DR appropriate for FO3 and DT appropriate for NV.The obvious solution is to skin the hillbillies and wear them over power armour.This is something FO4's crafting system should let you do. That would be amazing.
It is the only way.
And yeah, DR could get pretty ridiculous... I remember running around mostly naked in NV beating the shit out of people in melee.
That was actually really fun.
Post by: BFEL on September 21, 2015, 12:29:28 am
Well NV had those two recipes where you basically did that with gecko skins.The obvious solution is to skin the hillbillies and wear them over power armour.This is something FO4's crafting system should let you do. That would be amazing.
It is the only way.
Post by: Wimopy on September 21, 2015, 03:27:06 am
Just doesn't really make sense that my DR goes away while my armour is still in one piece.
A mod that lets you skin hillbillies sounds quite simple. Then a mod that gives you super power armour if you use it for crafting... too bad I'm no modder. Though it's a bit late for FO3 modding anyway.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 21, 2015, 03:40:46 am
Post by: Flying Dice on September 21, 2015, 03:52:08 am
Raw Damage * ((100 - DR)/100)) = D
Final damage = (D - DT) OR (D * 0.2), whichever is higher.
Post by: Wimopy on September 21, 2015, 04:43:15 am
Just to tie it back- any ideas on changes they might make? IIRC, there were a lot of talks about the DR cap being easy to reach and (just like here) quite a few complaints about ridiculous DR on enemies at high levels.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 21, 2015, 05:10:53 am
Personally I found automatic weapons outclassed by the high-damage per shot weapons pretty much all the time. Worked on everything, including armoured enemies, was more accurate, used less ammo. So making automatic guns more appealing would be nice.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 21, 2015, 05:36:49 am
Post by: Neonivek on September 21, 2015, 05:47:08 am
Yep. Every NV playthrough I inevitably went into all-shotgun all the time once I got my first hunting shotgun. Absurd damage, great perks, a wide range of ammo to suit every situation (pulse rounds... *drools*), what's not to like?
I couldn't really find a good weapon until I found a weapon from Old World Blues that pretty much took energy weapons and went "You like energy weapons? Now THIS is an energy weapon!" and has pretty much become a staple with incredibly easy to find ammo.
Post by: notquitethere on September 21, 2015, 06:03:41 am
Post by: Krevsin on September 21, 2015, 06:06:58 am
Post by: scriver on September 21, 2015, 07:10:12 am
Post by: TempAcc on September 21, 2015, 08:50:51 am
I can't deny that the single shot weapons were great though. The dinner bell was my main weapon for almost the entirety of the game, since it could to decent damage to pretty much anything with the wide variety of (rather cheap) ammo and the crit rate and damage. Combined with the shotgun specific perks, you could kill pretty much anything, specially with the "And Stay Back!" perk. Legendary deathclaw? Pfffft.
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 21, 2015, 08:56:39 am
It's like, got a shitty 9mm? With 100 metal and 150 fiberglass, plus a bottle, you've got a SNIPER RIFLE!
Plus a barrel and handle you can put on your other, shitty sniper rifle to make a .384 PISTOL!
Unless, of course, removed weapon parts aren't inventory items.
...I hope they are.
Post by: Krevsin on September 21, 2015, 10:02:09 am
I'm still extremely excited for the weapon customization.All I want for christmas is a fully auto AMR with exploding bullets.
It's like, got a shitty 9mm? With 100 metal and 150 fiberglass, plus a bottle, you've got a SNIPER RIFLE!
Plus a barrel and handle you can put on your other, shitty sniper rifle to make a .384 PISTOL!
Unless, of course, removed weapon parts aren't inventory items.
...I hope they are.
I don't care if the ammo is expensive and the maintenance rate atrocious. Just gimme.
Post by: TempAcc on September 21, 2015, 10:38:11 am
Post by: Shadowlord on September 21, 2015, 11:12:33 am
Post by: RoguelikeRazuka on September 21, 2015, 11:29:54 am
Post by: ThtblovesDF on September 21, 2015, 11:42:36 am
Post by: notquitethere on September 21, 2015, 01:26:47 pm
Suicidal Liabilities: Dogmeat (all Fallout dogs basically), Dragon Age's Barkspawn
Regular Party Members: Red XIII, Fable 2 dog
Hyperpowered Death Machines: Dog from Arcanum (i.e. the reason all character builds are equally viable in that game)
Post by: Wimopy on September 21, 2015, 02:35:56 pm
Agree with Dogmeat and friends though. Wonder if they revamped the AI for the new dog (and the game in general). Usually that's a highlighted change if it happens, but I don't recall it being mentioned...
Edit:fixed typo, no idea why my phone likes skipping input
Post by: jocan2003 on September 21, 2015, 02:39:01 pm
Post by: Teneb on September 21, 2015, 02:40:09 pm
SetEssential 1 will fix dogmeat for you :) or something like that.Unless you are a console player. Then why are you even playing a Bethesda games if you can't mod them?
Post by: notquitethere on September 21, 2015, 02:56:34 pm
Well... I found Barkspawn my most reliable teammate. No idea why, but it became a great tank and also had decent age.I always found him and Sten to be harder to keep alive than other characters, but I've not doubt there's a way of playing them well.
Post by: Wimopy on September 21, 2015, 03:31:50 pm
SetEssential 1 will fix dogmeat for you :) or something like that.
Or you know, maybe it could not charge deathclaws or try to take guys with shotguns head on.
A good example is the varren I wrote about in the How did you last die thread. The damn thing is programmed to take a flanking route where it's behind cover and can easily get to your back undetected.
Or make it so melee disrupts aim enough that a machine gun doesn't easily turn poor dog into mash. Something like considering barrel length when determining firing range would help too...
Post by: BFEL on September 21, 2015, 06:17:38 pm
Twelve nukes per second go!
Post by: umiman on September 21, 2015, 09:36:12 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 21, 2015, 09:38:25 pm
Post by: Neonivek on September 21, 2015, 09:40:57 pm
There was even a gun in new vegas that turned BB-gun shots into a halfway decent ammo.
Post by: Wimopy on September 22, 2015, 04:43:26 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 22, 2015, 05:08:15 am
Post by: Neonivek on September 22, 2015, 05:39:48 am
Party Member Dogs in RPGs fall into three categories:
Suicidal Liabilities: Dogmeat (all Fallout dogs basically), Dragon Age's Barkspawn
Regular Party Members: Red XIII, Fable 2 dog
Hyperpowered Death Machines: Dog from Arcanum (i.e. the reason all character builds are equally viable in that game)
Fable 2's dog wasn't so much a party member as he falls under... the fourth category
"Dogs are tools"... Which is where Dead To Rights, Fable 2, and MGS: Phantom Pain have them.
As for Hyperpowered Death Machines... I am not aware of any other game that had an overpowered dog character except for IVAN (but in that case you deserved it for feeling it so many bones)
Post by: TempAcc on September 22, 2015, 08:21:29 am
Post by: Egan_BW on September 22, 2015, 08:26:11 am
( :P)
Post by: Krevsin on September 22, 2015, 12:54:04 pm
I think they'll go for a "dogs are tools" approach in Fallout 4. A companion that can't be equiped and is destined to always fight in melee will never be super successful in fallout, unless its some sort of super mutant and things of that nature. Dogmeat's usefulness in fallout 3 wasn't combat, but his ability to retrieve things for you, anyway.don't forget "being the most adorable mangy mutt this side of the Wasteland".
Post by: Shadowlord on September 22, 2015, 02:13:23 pm
Post by: Wimopy on September 22, 2015, 02:20:37 pm
I think they'll go for a "dogs are tools" approach in Fallout 4. A companion that can't be equiped and is destined to always fight in melee will never be super successful in fallout, unless its some sort of super mutant and things of that nature. Dogmeat's usefulness in fallout 3 wasn't combat, but his ability to retrieve things for you, anyway.don't forget "being the most adorable mangy mutt this side of the Wasteland".
Isn't he like... the only dog in the game? Wait... no, I think there was one other in FO3.
FNV has more, though only about 6 have names, IIRC.
Funny how there are no cats though. You'd think those have a higher priority in vaults since they hunt down mice and rats. Turns out it's only german shepherds (? not sure) that Vault-Tec thought helpful.
Post by: notquitethere on September 22, 2015, 02:23:17 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on September 22, 2015, 02:31:56 pm
Post by: Wimopy on September 22, 2015, 02:34:59 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on September 22, 2015, 02:38:08 pm
Post by: Wimopy on September 22, 2015, 02:44:06 pm
Post by: scriver on September 22, 2015, 03:06:36 pm
They ate them.
Post by: Kot on September 22, 2015, 03:16:59 pm
Fallout 1 actually adresses the point that there are dogs but no cats.*Ding*
They ate them.
A new vault opens! It was filled with cats!
CATS, CATS EVERYWHERE IN THE WASTELAND!
Post by: notquitethere on September 22, 2015, 03:18:59 pm
Post by: Kot on September 22, 2015, 03:25:05 pm
The lore is strong in this one. When they accept me on to the writing team for Obsidian Entertainment's Fallout: New Brunskwick I'll be sure to include a quest to reintroduce cats to the wasteland from a catsploded vault (where the cats have long since feasted on the remains of the dead dwellers and have learned to operate the food dispenser units themselves).The food/water dispenser units might be as well automated for reasons unknown.
Post by: Wimopy on September 22, 2015, 03:27:56 pm
Or, how long can an average house cat survive on a single mole rat corpse, provided it does not rot?
How many average house cats does it take to kill a mole rat?
You know, there are no house cats in TES either, are there? Maybe it's the oversized rats that cause it. I can't recall any worlds where both giant rats/R.O.U.S. and house cats exist.
Post by: scriver on September 22, 2015, 03:32:15 pm
That got me thinking, how many average house cats can a single mole rat corpse feed for one day?
Or, how long can an average house cat survive on a single mole rat corpse, provided it does not rot?
How many average house cats does it take to kill a mole rat?
You know, there are no house cats in TES either, are there? Maybe it's the oversized rats that cause it. I can't recall any worlds where both giant rats/R.O.U.S. and house cats exist.
L
The adventurers' union lobbied to have them all killed to create more entry-level job opportunities for young adults.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on September 22, 2015, 03:33:26 pm
The lore is strong in this one. When they accept me on to the writing team for Obsidian Entertainment's Fallout: New Brunskwick I'll be sure to include a quest to reintroduce cats to the wasteland from a catsploded vault (where the cats have long since feasted on the remains of the dead dwellers and have learned to operate the food dispenser units themselves).I will pay five million dollars for a Fallout: New Brunswick. Because YAY APOCALYPTIC HOME-PROVINCE :D
Post by: Rolan7 on September 22, 2015, 03:34:18 pm
Post by: Teneb on September 22, 2015, 03:56:00 pm
You know, there are no house cats in TES either, are there? Maybe it's the oversized rats that cause it. I can't recall any worlds where both giant rats/R.O.U.S. and house cats exist.There are, just mostly in the lore.
Would it have a vault flooded with maple syrup?The lore is strong in this one. When they accept me on to the writing team for Obsidian Entertainment's Fallout: New Brunskwick I'll be sure to include a quest to reintroduce cats to the wasteland from a catsploded vault (where the cats have long since feasted on the remains of the dead dwellers and have learned to operate the food dispenser units themselves).I will pay five million dollars for a Fallout: New Brunswick. Because YAY APOCALYPTIC HOME-PROVINCE :D
Post by: notquitethere on September 22, 2015, 04:03:19 pm
Pony up a 10% advance and I will personally handcraft it.The lore is strong in this one. When they accept me on to the writing team for Obsidian Entertainment's Fallout: New Brunskwick I'll be sure to include a quest to reintroduce cats to the wasteland from a catsploded vault (where the cats have long since feasted on the remains of the dead dwellers and have learned to operate the food dispenser units themselves).I will pay five million dollars for a Fallout: New Brunswick. Because YAY APOCALYPTIC HOME-PROVINCE :D
Post by: miauw62 on September 22, 2015, 04:34:03 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on September 22, 2015, 04:38:50 pm
Hm... the strange homogeny of khajiit in each area, combined with the moonphase=appearance thing, suggests some interesting ethnic holiday practices.
Post by: miauw62 on September 22, 2015, 05:04:31 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on September 22, 2015, 05:09:58 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on September 22, 2015, 05:14:59 pm
Post by: scriver on September 22, 2015, 05:32:28 pm
Post by: ShoesandHats on September 22, 2015, 05:53:04 pm
Post by: Neonivek on September 22, 2015, 05:58:46 pm
Interestingly enough, Wither-world is a place were monsters are too dangerous for common people to become adventurers, meaning there is no need for low-levels to go on rat killing quests.
That is most places. The usual way most places in, for example, dungeons and dragons deal with it is to round up 10 guards or soldiers.
Which as for Witcher... Naw people can handle ordinary monsters as well, there are weak monsters, but they often need such large numbers with expected casualties that it is usually better to let the monster free then to deal with it.
Post by: Kot on September 23, 2015, 08:25:45 am
You know, there are no house cats in TES either, are there? Maybe it's the oversized rats that cause it. I can't recall any worlds where both giant rats/R.O.U.S. and house cats exist.IIRC, some in universe book on tactics mentioned mute (as in, meowing at best) Khajiit that looked like housecats but were amazing (sentient) spellcasters, and there was a bunch of other regular kitty cats in lore... which may, or may not have been magical Khajit kitty cats... and, I'm not sure but there was apparently a kitty cat spellcaster guardian to some Emperor, possibly Tiber.
Post by: BFEL on September 23, 2015, 09:33:07 am
and, I'm not sure but there was apparently a kitty cat spellcaster guardian to some Emperor, possibly Tiber.Whoever they were they are officially a supervillain. You just can't have a magical feline bodyguard without being a supervillain. Its the law.
Post by: Neonivek on September 23, 2015, 09:35:55 am
Fallout 3 and New Vegas did nothing but make me like them less and less since they are essentially moving walls that kill you if they touch you... something completely boring to fight and completely stupid if they manage to win against you because they flat out break the rules of the game without any logical explanation for how they are able to do so (at LEAST 1 and 2 extrapolated quite a bit)
I know there is going to be deathclaws... there will always be deathclaws even when it makes no sense for there to be... because they are so creatively bankrupt... but still.
Then again 1 and 2 were quite a bit more interesting. In that there was a whole ecosystem in place that you could see and fight against. While Fallout 3 and New Vegas take place in some sort of lifeless void.
Post by: Tellemurius on September 23, 2015, 09:49:57 am
I know I am probably unique in saying this... but I hope there are no deathclaws in Fallout 4.*Watches gameplay trailer of player getting stabbed by a Deathclaw*
Fallout 3 and New Vegas did nothing but make me like them less and less since they are essentially moving walls that kill you if they touch you... something completely boring to fight and completely stupid if they manage to win against you because they flat out break the rules of the game without any logical explanation for how they are able to do so (at LEAST 1 and 2 extrapolated quite a bit)
I know there is going to be deathclaws... there will always be deathclaws even when it makes no sense for there to be... because they are so creatively bankrupt... but still.
Then again 1 and 2 were quite a bit more interesting. In that there was a whole ecosystem in place that you could see and fight against. While Fallout 3 and New Vegas take place in some sort of lifeless void.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 23, 2015, 10:43:18 am
Quote
"Radscorpions!"
Quote
"A particularly sneaky radscorpion seems to be trying to ambush you."
Quote
"Out of nowhere, a radscorpion suddenly strikes!"
Quote
"You have stumbled upon a family of Mole Rats."
Quote
"You find several rats scavenging about here."
Quote
"You see a lone radscorpion, skittering about."
Quote
"Tremendous molerats are nosing about here."
Quote
"You see several rats running towards you."
Post by: Neonivek on September 23, 2015, 10:46:02 am
Post by: Krevsin on September 23, 2015, 11:21:53 am
Seriously, in FO1 try to do the quest for the gun runners at a low to mid level and have fun running backwards while feebly attempting to shoot at your impending doom.
Post by: Neonivek on September 23, 2015, 11:23:33 am
And let's not forget the fact that Deathclaws were as much a wall of death in FO1 and FO2 as they are in 3 and NV.
Seriously, in FO1 try to do the quest for the gun runners at a low to mid level and have fun running backwards while feebly attempting to shoot at your impending doom.
Yeah but Fallout 3 and New Vegas didn't learn how to make it fun.
It isn't a coincidence that the flat out WORST DLC for New Vegas included a cave that was full of deathclaws.
Post by: TempAcc on September 23, 2015, 11:26:57 am
But ye, all they do is charge you and try to claw you, in pretty much any situation, but thats what pretty much any non ranged enemy in a bethesda game does, anyway.
Post by: Krevsin on September 23, 2015, 11:35:42 am
Neither Fallout 1 nor Fallout 2 made the encounters with them "fun" in any possible interpretation of the word. Deathclaw encounters were an automatic "nope, nope, nope" moment until the mid to late game. Unless you like ineffectually plinking away at massive horned demons of rapemurder while your companions are being ruthlessly gutted in front of your very eyes.And let's not forget the fact that Deathclaws were as much a wall of death in FO1 and FO2 as they are in 3 and NV.
Seriously, in FO1 try to do the quest for the gun runners at a low to mid level and have fun running backwards while feebly attempting to shoot at your impending doom.
Yeah but Fallout 3 and New Vegas didn't learn how to make it fun.
The only fun thing done with deathclaws does not come in combat, but in story. Specifically FO2, with the vault (Vault 13, of all things) full of intelligent, peaceful deathclaws. And yet FO2 still had your vanilla, "horned demons of rapemurder" variant of deathclaws present and they were still complete and total bastards to fight until mid to late game.
edit:
New one of those animated thingamajiggers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paYU1neP3xM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paYU1neP3xM)
Post by: notquitethere on September 23, 2015, 12:00:39 pm
Post by: Teneb on September 23, 2015, 12:18:23 pm
New one of those animated thingamajiggers.Looks like having a strong constitution is needed for eating... exotic meat. I wonder if that will actually serve any practical purpose other than an easy way to lower karma.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paYU1neP3xM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paYU1neP3xM)
Post by: miauw62 on September 23, 2015, 12:20:00 pm
Post by: notquitethere on September 23, 2015, 12:22:45 pm
Post by: Bohandas on September 23, 2015, 12:50:05 pm
What's really annoying are FO3's albino radscori]pions.
Post by: Krevsin on September 23, 2015, 12:58:05 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on September 23, 2015, 01:16:44 pm
Fallout 3 and New Vegas did nothing but make me like them less and less since they are essentially moving walls that kill you if they touch you... something completely boring to fight and completely stupid if they manage to win against you because they flat out break the rules of the game without any logical explanation for how they are able to do so (at LEAST 1 and 2 extrapolated quite a bit)
If something kills you if it touches you, you find a way to kill it before it can touch you, or keep it from ever seeing you. I never had any trouble with the deathclaws in NV because I sniped them with my gauss rifle from long range while sneaking. I had to reload a few times when I missed their head and then missed my follow-up shots and they caught me, but that's only to be expected when you're not perfect. (I only vaguely remember the ones in FO3)
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 23, 2015, 01:35:10 pm
Post by: scriver on September 23, 2015, 02:16:49 pm
Post by: Wimopy on September 23, 2015, 03:26:47 pm
I kinda wish deathclaws were more like JP raptors. Fast, but still susceptible to death by bullets.
Imagine them with AI that uses ambushes, cover and flanking. Or one that makes it like the JP1 idea of raptor hunting- one in front, real attack from side.
Post by: Neonivek on September 23, 2015, 03:31:17 pm
Fallout 3 and New Vegas did nothing but make me like them less and less since they are essentially moving walls that kill you if they touch you... something completely boring to fight and completely stupid if they manage to win against you because they flat out break the rules of the game without any logical explanation for how they are able to do so (at LEAST 1 and 2 extrapolated quite a bit)
If something kills you if it touches you, you find a way to kill it before it can touch you, or keep it from ever seeing you. I never had any trouble with the deathclaws in NV because I sniped them with my gauss rifle from long range while sneaking. I had to reload a few times when I missed their head and then missed my follow-up shots and they caught me, but that's only to be expected when you're not perfect. (I only vaguely remember the ones in FO3)
My issue with them isn't that they are hard, heck there are tougher enemies then the deathclaws, or that there aren't ways to cheap them out.
So much that they aren't fun and break the rules clearly established by the game.
It is why the cave of deathclaws was pretty much where I knew the DLC was not going to be good...
pretty much it is that I never fought a Deathclaw and went "Phew, now that was awesome!". Though in all fairness New Vegas only put deathclaws in areas with a LOT of deathclaws... Having a single deathclaw as the sort of "boss" of an entire region would be fine.
Post by: Teneb on September 23, 2015, 03:33:42 pm
Post by: Neonivek on September 23, 2015, 03:34:22 pm
How do deathclaws break the rules of the game? They are just beefy and fast.
One hit kills regardless of your armor.
Something even Behemoths struggled to do. (it is kind of weird given that Deathclaws aren't that big... you would think something with claws of adamanium would get a little more mention)
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 23, 2015, 03:39:31 pm
...no?How do deathclaws break the rules of the game? They are just beefy and fast.
One hit kills regardless of your armor.
Ordinary and blind deathclaws in NV do 125 damage a hit
Alpha male does 300
Mother does 275
Legendary does 250
Young and baby deathclaws do 40
Lonsome road deathclaws start at 125, and at player levels 30, 40, 50, do 187, 280, 350
None of it is insta-death.
Post by: Teneb on September 23, 2015, 03:40:44 pm
Not the case. Characters can sustain deathclaw hits once you get endgame armour and have at least average endurance. I like to play melee characters, so I can say that deathclaws are certainly survivable. Not easy to, mind you, but it can happen. I've even survived tunneler hits in Lonesome Road, and those things are supposedly tougher than the deatclaws (they are even introduced in an area with a dead deathclaw in a cowering position).How do deathclaws break the rules of the game? They are just beefy and fast.
One hit kills regardless of your armor.
Ninja'd by Giglamesh with actual numbers, rather than anecdotal evidence.
EDIT: Decided to check numbers for the tunnelers. The average one deals 25 damage per hit, though at a fast rate and in large numbers (and in enclosed areas). So I'd say that it depends on the situtation, though deathclaws are more dangerous on an individual level.
Post by: Rolan7 on September 23, 2015, 03:46:16 pm
I sorta like the challenge deathclaws provide, even though I also hate them for being absurdly tough and deadly. I honestly can't remember whether I killed any with my 10END punchy character, I kinda think I did once...
The queen deathclaw of the quarry was a very memorable moment. I didn't actually die, but it got close enough to be very exciting.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 23, 2015, 03:57:56 pm
Quote from: Ulysses
Deathclaw might get some, but the rest will swarm it, tear it apart, like Denver hounds.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 23, 2015, 04:03:34 pm
Post by: Teneb on September 23, 2015, 04:06:54 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 23, 2015, 04:16:59 pm
Decided to see what is the most damaging creature in both 3 and NV for fun. In short, the alpha male deathclaw is by far the hardest hitter.
Well, actually... (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Bloatfly_(Fallout:_New_Vegas)#Legendary_bloatfly)
Post by: Teneb on September 23, 2015, 04:18:38 pm
Well, looks like I was wrong. I checked the legendary cazador and it had a lower attack, so I incorrectly assumed it was the same for the bloatfly. Still, it's actually amusing that the strongest enemy in the game is a giant fly.Decided to see what is the most damaging creature in both 3 and NV for fun. In short, the alpha male deathclaw is by far the hardest hitter.
Well, actually... (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Bloatfly_(Fallout:_New_Vegas)#Legendary_bloatfly)
Post by: Rolan7 on September 23, 2015, 04:20:01 pm
Post by: Neonivek on September 23, 2015, 06:36:32 pm
Well, looks like I was wrong. I checked the legendary cazador and it had a lower attack, so I incorrectly assumed it was the same for the bloatfly. Still, it's actually amusing that the strongest enemy in the game is a giant fly.Decided to see what is the most damaging creature in both 3 and NV for fun. In short, the alpha male deathclaw is by far the hardest hitter.
Well, actually... (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Bloatfly_(Fallout:_New_Vegas)#Legendary_bloatfly)
Sort of. It doesn't have the ability to chain you to death.
Post by: Rolan7 on September 23, 2015, 06:52:52 pm
Post by: Teneb on September 23, 2015, 06:59:13 pm
It doesn't need to. It has a ranged attack, so you can't kite it.Well, looks like I was wrong. I checked the legendary cazador and it had a lower attack, so I incorrectly assumed it was the same for the bloatfly. Still, it's actually amusing that the strongest enemy in the game is a giant fly.Decided to see what is the most damaging creature in both 3 and NV for fun. In short, the alpha male deathclaw is by far the hardest hitter.
Well, actually... (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Bloatfly_(Fallout:_New_Vegas)#Legendary_bloatfly)
Sort of. It doesn't have the ability to chain you to death.
Post by: Neonivek on September 23, 2015, 07:03:03 pm
It is why I said that there are enemies tougher and harder then the Deathclaw.
Yet even then its attack is more reasonable then the Deathclaw in spite its damage output.
Post by: Rolan7 on September 23, 2015, 07:04:53 pm
With a deathclaw, everything suddenly comes down to your DPS.
If your damage and armor is high enough you *might* get an extra attack.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 23, 2015, 07:07:33 pm
Post by: Neonivek on September 23, 2015, 07:51:22 pm
Yeah I don't even remember fighting the legendary bloatfly, but fighting a ranged enemy with cover is easy compared to a deathclaw.
With a deathclaw, everything suddenly comes down to your DPS.
If your damage and armor is high enough you *might* get an extra attack.
The Legendary Bloatfly is completely optional and out of your way in Old World Blues and the reward isn't worth your time (as it just amounts to being the master of killing bloatflies)
Post by: Rolan7 on September 23, 2015, 08:08:35 pm
I'm fine missing that fight, bloatflies are easy XP.
Cazadors on the other hand. Oh man. I wish the Big Empty did *more* to combat those fuckin atrocities.
...
though from a gameplay perspective, I welcome the challenge.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on September 23, 2015, 08:48:22 pm
Post by: Wimopy on September 24, 2015, 02:50:25 am
Hell, I even punch radscorpions at higher levels, since they are slower and actually stagger. Cazadores just instantly poison you if they get close, so even if I can oneshot them it still hurts.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on September 24, 2015, 03:29:01 am
I'm not ashamed to admit that cazadors are the one thing where I still use VATS instead of bullettime.Bullettime? Isn't VATS kinda bullettime already? Or are you talking about some mod?
Post by: Neonivek on September 24, 2015, 03:42:24 am
I even had to check because I completely forgot what they were.
Kind of odd that I have trouble with deathclaws and you guys don't. While you guys have trouble with Cazadores and I don't.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on September 24, 2015, 04:49:21 am
Post by: Neonivek on September 24, 2015, 05:01:30 am
I suppose that's difference in the style we play and build characters.
Probably. I tend to try to pick off enemies, then back off until I can do it again. Or if they are tougher injure them, back up, then finish them off.
Post by: notquitethere on September 24, 2015, 05:03:53 am
Post by: BFEL on September 24, 2015, 05:46:04 am
Damn cazadores. Can't fight them in melee because theu WILL poison you. I usually use an automatic or a fast semi-auto to fight them. One of the few enemies I'm willing to use grenades/explosives (not mines, I mean rockets) on.Old World Blues- Heartless.
Hell, I even punch radscorpions at higher levels, since they are slower and actually stagger. Cazadores just instantly poison you if they get close, so even if I can oneshot them it still hurts.
Never fear the winged menace again!
Post by: Flying Dice on September 24, 2015, 05:46:20 am
I'm not ashamed to admit that cazadors are the one thing where I still use VATS instead of bullettime.Bullettime? Isn't VATS kinda bullettime already? Or are you talking about some mod?
Project Nevada, among others. It adds in actual bullet time (as opposed to -FREEZE! PERCENTAGE TIME!-) that operates on the Action Point system, using it as a timer, as well as converting a lot of the VATS perks to also work in bullet time.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on September 24, 2015, 05:54:52 am
Post by: Neonivek on September 24, 2015, 06:17:47 am
Admittedly bullet time makes more sense in realtime combat than normal VATS which comes unaltered from turn based combat mode of previous installations. F4 seems to do bullet time as well, so I guess Bethesda is big on copying mod content into their new games.
Well it is a good idea and essentially what Vats was doing the entire time. Though frankly I often used VATS just to cripple hard to reach, see, or target body parts. A trait I hope bullet time doesn't remove.
I wonder if they are going to make enemy injuries more significant this time around. I still remember the weapon I had that would "break every limb an enemy had" and I often had trouble seeing if it did anything at all.
Not that it was unnoticeable, afterall I did use the Linceon Rifle in Fallout 3 and hitting someone in the head with that tends to allow you to follow in with a few more extra death shots.
Post by: BFEL on September 24, 2015, 06:23:55 am
Post by: AoshimaMichio on September 24, 2015, 06:33:47 am
Also is there a link to the new endurance video that I DON'T have toThey flagged it as adult content? Wonderful, just wonderful...poison the closest thing my computer has to a soullog in to youtube/google+ to watch?
Post by: Wimopy on September 24, 2015, 07:59:27 am
Post by: notquitethere on September 24, 2015, 08:17:32 am
Link for those who can't use youtube. (http://www.gameinformer.com/games/fallout_4/b/playstation4/archive/2015/09/23/what-endurance-can-do-for-you-in-fallout-4.aspx)
Post by: Metalax on September 24, 2015, 10:51:01 am
Isn't he like... the only dog in the game? Wait... no, I think there was one other in FO3.There are a whole load of them in FO3, six in Little Lamplight alone, one in the Temple of the Union, many of the Scavengers that spawn in fixed locations also have them, as do several Raider and Black Talon encampments.
Post by: ductape on September 24, 2015, 10:54:02 am
Isn't he like... the only dog in the game? Wait... no, I think there was one other in FO3.There are a whole load of them in FO3, six in Little Lamplight alone, one in the Temple of the Union, many of the Scavengers that spawn in fixed locations also have them, as do several Raider and Black Talon encampments.
Just one breed if I remember correctly.
Post by: Metalax on September 24, 2015, 11:08:57 am
True, although that is likely more of a limited art assets issue than being only one particular breed surviving.Isn't he like... the only dog in the game? Wait... no, I think there was one other in FO3.There are a whole load of them in FO3, six in Little Lamplight alone, one in the Temple of the Union, many of the Scavengers that spawn in fixed locations also have them, as do several Raider and Black Talon encampments.
Just one breed if I remember correctly.
Post by: Ghazkull on September 24, 2015, 12:05:05 pm
Post by: Teneb on September 24, 2015, 12:18:55 pm
it propably has something to do with people stopping to breed them actively so the all the different dog races intermingle again and return towards their wolf origins...Yeah, in case of an apocalypse (especially 200 years after the fact), dogs would probably intermingle enough that you'd end up with a single generic "breed".
Post by: Wimopy on September 24, 2015, 12:42:07 pm
it propably has something to do with people stopping to breed them actively so the all the different dog races intermingle again and return towards their wolf origins...Yeah, in case of an apocalypse (especially 200 years after the fact), dogs would probably intermingle enough that you'd end up with a single generic "breed".
Doesn't explain why the cyberdogs in the Big Empty are also of that breed, especially with one of the dogs (Boros', I think?) possibly being alive since before the war.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on September 24, 2015, 01:05:41 pm
Post by: Putnam on September 24, 2015, 01:35:47 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 24, 2015, 02:47:12 pm
But quite frankly
I don't file that under "developer laziness" so much as "cost/benefit ratio being too awful to consider"
Post by: AoshimaMichio on September 24, 2015, 02:53:36 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on September 24, 2015, 03:38:27 pm
it propably has something to do with people stopping to breed them actively so the all the different dog races intermingle again and return towards their wolf origins...
Spoiler: english advice (click to show/hide)
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 24, 2015, 09:59:07 pm
Kind of annoying that you can't pick up weapons from enemies, but that adds to the challenge.
Small side note: you are hilariously inaccurate with the missile launcher if you don't meet the strength requirement. The thing sways more than a regular gun with every limb crippled.
Post by: Shadowlord on September 24, 2015, 10:06:26 pm
Post by: jocan2003 on September 24, 2015, 10:09:34 pm
Back when I played it, it was possible to steal weapons from that module and take them back to the real world. I take it they've fixed that? (Although I don't remember how it was done anymore)I know there is a mod where you can bring what you loot back from that if i remember right?
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 24, 2015, 10:10:52 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on September 24, 2015, 11:03:35 pm
Back when I played it, it was possible to steal weapons from that module and take them back to the real world. I take it they've fixed that? (Although I don't remember how it was done anymore)Basically, there was a prisoner in the underground area where the VR pod was. You killed him, dragged his corpse into the front of the pod (so that it would be directly in front of the cursor while you were locked into the sitting animation), played through the DLC, and then hammered the loot/interact key when you woke up. If you did it right, you'd be able to access the corpse's inventory before your VR inventory was removed, allowing you to transfer all those delicious infinite-durability bits of gear over.
I'unno if they actually patched it. Personally, I liked it, mostly because the stuff you could get that way wasn't actually top-end for the most part, so there was that tradeoff between raw stats and durability.
Post by: Putnam on September 24, 2015, 11:07:14 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on September 25, 2015, 12:12:19 am
Post by: Wimopy on September 25, 2015, 06:04:44 am
New video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsFpH4jm-QI) which shows what the pipboy SPECIAL and Perk screens and the level up screen look like.
Here's what I pieced out:
List of perks seen in the video inside among other info (some guesswork, should be noticeable)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ghazkull on September 25, 2015, 08:13:01 am
Spoiler: For Shadowlord (click to show/hide)
Hmpf, im rather miffed towards the whole settlement building staff. Sure its all nice bonus stuff, but while i usually am all for settlement building and so forth, i don't want to do that in Fallout. Fallout is for me the game where you can influence the wasteland but don't have to deal with actual organizational crap. I don't want to micromanage my fifteen little villages, i want to travel around and nuke small towns and do ridiculous moral choices that fuck up the entire surrounding area. Thats entirely more fun.
Post by: Krevsin on September 25, 2015, 08:25:12 am
Post by: Flying Dice on September 25, 2015, 09:01:39 am
-SEEMINGLY, you can put perk points directly into SPECIALS. At least, that's what I get from the text under "[SPECIAL] Training]"Oh, hey! Not gonna say that I called it, but I totally called it. :P
Post by: Wimopy on September 25, 2015, 09:18:44 am
-SEEMINGLY, you can put perk points directly into SPECIALS. At least, that's what I get from the text under "[SPECIAL] Training]"Oh, hey! Not gonna say that I called it, but I totally called it. :P
It's a surprising change if you can get perfect stats. Though I wonder how many levels and perk points we'll have in total.
I'm guessing 1 perk per level and max level 50 from the perk level requirements.
Kinda makes you wonder how they'll implement DLCs - no level cap increase? Higher SPECIAL cap for more perks?
And how will perk mods work?
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 25, 2015, 10:10:15 am
Post by: Wimopy on September 25, 2015, 10:48:11 am
You could increase stats with perks before... One of the first perks you have access to is putting another point in one of your apecials in FO3 and NV.
But that was limited to 5 points, afaik. Can't see any such limits here. And now SPECIALs have a much greater role according to Bethesda, anyway.
Post by: Shadowlord on September 25, 2015, 10:56:40 am
Quoth the wiki:
Quote from: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_3_SPECIAL
It is possible for the player to get all of their SPECIAL up to 10 without cheating if the player has Broken Steel. Once the player gets to level 30, if they choose the perk Almost Perfect, all of their SPECIAL lower than 9 will be raised to 9. If they then proceed to collect the 7 SPECIAL bobbleheads, each of which permanently increases the stat by 1, they will have maxed out their SPECIAL to 10 in each category. If the player obtains the 7 bobbleheads before they choose the Almost Perfect perk, they will only be able to get that category to 9 (unless it was at 10 before the perk).
Collecting the bobbleheads wasn't too difficult, IIRC, if you looked up where they were on the wiki. Basically you just needed to know NOT to collect them before level 30 unless you had the stat for that bobblehead at 10 already.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on September 25, 2015, 11:19:22 am
You could get perfect stats in FO3 if you had Broken Steel, though:
Quoth the wiki:Quote from: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_3_SPECIALIt is possible for the player to get all of their SPECIAL up to 10 without cheating if the player has Broken Steel. Once the player gets to level 30, if they choose the perk Almost Perfect, all of their SPECIAL lower than 9 will be raised to 9. If they then proceed to collect the 7 SPECIAL bobbleheads, each of which permanently increases the stat by 1, they will have maxed out their SPECIAL to 10 in each category. If the player obtains the 7 bobbleheads before they choose the Almost Perfect perk, they will only be able to get that category to 9 (unless it was at 10 before the perk).
Collecting the bobbleheads wasn't too difficult, IIRC, if you looked up where they were on the wiki. Basically you just needed to know NOT to collect them before level 30 unless you had the stat for that bobblehead at 10 already.
Which tended to be Intelligence, so you could max out all the skills ingame.
Post by: Putnam on September 25, 2015, 11:54:51 am
Fallout is for me the game where you can influence the wasteland
???
I mean, you can't in any meaningful way.
On the other hand, it's basically infeasible to do that in any meaningful way in a game that takes longer to play than, like, 8 hours.
telltale has no excuse
Post by: notquitethere on September 25, 2015, 01:24:21 pm
Collecting the bobbleheads wasn't too difficult, IIRC, if you looked up where they were on the wiki.Anything's easy if you cheat, yes.
???You can change the political fate of settlements and decide whether any given person you encounter will live or die... how is that not influencing the wasteland?
I mean, you can't in any meaningful way.
Post by: pisskop on September 25, 2015, 01:44:03 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on September 25, 2015, 04:07:09 pm
Post by: Teneb on September 25, 2015, 04:16:58 pm
You can change the Mojave, at least politically, I guess? For better or worse.For the most part, only in the post-game slideshow. the only real change in-game is the securitron update and wiping out certain outposts.
Post by: Virtz on September 25, 2015, 05:18:18 pm
That still counts for a lot compared to most games where you have no control over what your ending accomplishes. Here you get what you chose to accomplish, and you get to learn the long-term consequences of your actions. Consequences that'd either take too much in-game time or development budget to show in gameplay.You can change the Mojave, at least politically, I guess? For better or worse.For the most part, only in the post-game slideshow. the only real change in-game is the securitron update and wiping out certain outposts.
Like this is the kind of ending Mass Effect 3 should've had. Something that took all your choices into account rather than just shoving 2-3 narrow choices in your face at the very end? The thing they promised but never actually did?
I hope Bethesda does the ending slides right this time around. They didn't really understand what the ending slides were there for in Fallout 3.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 25, 2015, 06:34:48 pm
You could increase stats with perks before... One of the first perks you have access to is putting another point in one of your apecials in FO3 and NV.
But that was limited to 5 points, afaik. Can't see any such limits here. And now SPECIALs have a much greater role according to Bethesda, anyway.
Also, check out the SPECIALs on that demo character.
Code: [Select]
S = 3
P = 6
E = 4
C = 2
I = 6
A = 5
L = 6That's a net of 3 SPECIAL points below average (all 5s), and that at level 14! In New Vegas you started out at 5 SPECIAL points above average (all 5s) at level 1.
What I'm guessing is that new characters start with fewer SPECIAL points, or possibly even at 1 or 2 in all of the scores, and that there's something limiting advancement -- maybe you can only increase the score if you've already put points into every perk line available under that score or something to that effect.
Post by: notquitethere on September 25, 2015, 06:48:36 pm
Post by: Krevsin on September 25, 2015, 11:40:11 pm
In the E3 demo (https://youtu.be/1t_YHgo_HN4?t=5m2s), the demo character started off with 1 point in every attribute and had 21 points to distribute. So I wouldn't be surprised if that was how they did it.You could increase stats with perks before... One of the first perks you have access to is putting another point in one of your apecials in FO3 and NV.
But that was limited to 5 points, afaik. Can't see any such limits here. And now SPECIALs have a much greater role according to Bethesda, anyway.
Also, check out the SPECIALs on that demo character.Code: [Select]S = 3
P = 6
E = 4
C = 2
I = 6
A = 5
L = 6
That's a net of 3 SPECIAL points below average (all 5s), and that at level 14! In New Vegas you started out at 5 SPECIAL points above average (all 5s) at level 1.
What I'm guessing is that new characters start with fewer SPECIAL points, or possibly even at 1 or 2 in all of the scores, and that there's something limiting advancement -- maybe you can only increase the score if you've already put points into every perk line available under that score or something to that effect.
Post by: notquitethere on September 25, 2015, 11:50:41 pm
Post by: Wimopy on September 26, 2015, 03:16:07 am
But really, what is "average" in SPECIALS? 1? With 1 INT up to now, you were roughly below a super mutant's cognitive level.
5 should have been the average, but maybe they revamped the system a bit. Or it's just that 200 years in a Vault is not healthy, so as you experience the world again, you can grow to it.
Post by: Krevsin on September 26, 2015, 06:30:57 am
Post by: Teneb on September 26, 2015, 08:29:29 am
But 1 point base and 21 to distribute is an average 4 per stat. Maybe they lowered it even more to 14?Maybe you were just not the smartest (or toughest, strongest...) person around before the bombs fell.
But really, what is "average" in SPECIALS? 1? With 1 INT up to now, you were roughly below a super mutant's cognitive level.
5 should have been the average, but maybe they revamped the system a bit. Or it's just that 200 years in a Vault is not healthy, so as you experience the world again, you can grow to it.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 26, 2015, 12:39:02 pm
That said, I actually think I'll like this a lot more. Earlier games, you just had static stats the entire game barring a handful of things -- it felt sort of stupid and shallow that pretty much all of your progression was in skills and stat-boosting gear when your SPECIALs were supposed to indicate what sort of person you were in mechanical terms. Not as silly as NV where you could max out half your stats, though.
This? I like this. You start out as a fairly normal person should: not particularly remarkable at anything. Your game, then, actually has you develop and grow in (statistically) deeper, more meaningful ways, rather than just "I shoot things 5% better with certain guns" or "I can now arbitrarily hack slightly more advanced computers" or "my coat makes people like me more". Though I will be annoyed if you can eventually max all of your SPECIALs at the expense of having fewer perk points, 'cause that's not the right way to allow JOATs to exist.
Post by: Krevsin on September 26, 2015, 01:54:56 pm
Post by: Neonivek on September 26, 2015, 07:26:26 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 27, 2015, 02:35:03 am
Post by: AoshimaMichio on September 27, 2015, 03:41:54 am
Fallout 3: Yao Guai or Gao, Why?
Query doesn't compute. Gao?
Post by: AlleeCat on September 27, 2015, 02:08:56 pm
Fallout 3: "Yao Guai" or "Gao, Why?"This makes it make a little more sense.
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 27, 2015, 02:13:57 pm
I mean, even though I've only faced one, ever (but it killed me dead)...
Also I am unashamed to say that I only made it through The Waters of Life thanks to God Mode. I would have died many, many times over, thanks to my crippled almost everything, no health, and lack of healing items.
Post by: Wimopy on September 27, 2015, 02:25:34 pm
Deathclaws needed an anti-mat or gauss rifle to the head though.
Post by: NullForceOmega on September 29, 2015, 02:04:38 am
Post by: Gabeux on September 29, 2015, 03:13:35 am
I really love Bethesda for putting the things I always wanted to see in their games (crafting, weapons customizing, gathering, settlement building) - however, I've already started meditating and working on personal development.
Otherwise, I'm pretty sure No Man's Sky + Fallout 4 will be the end of me.
About the perks: it sounds weird to me, because I fear missing out on fun stuff since I tend to focus on Perception/Agility/Luck, but I love alternate results and additional details that Charisma (Barter, Speech) can bring. Still, it sounds better than keeping the even weirder skills system from past games.
I wonder if this is to simplify for greater audiences AND to enforce a more tailored approach to character building?
Post by: Ultimuh on September 29, 2015, 03:45:10 am
So that I don't miss out on any potential conversation topics. Unless it all depends on various attributes.
Post by: Wimopy on September 29, 2015, 03:47:41 am
Yeah, there are savants, but still, I don't think that fits the player character's versatility.
Post by: Arbinire on September 29, 2015, 12:07:02 pm
Gotta admit, a character with 1 INT and 100 science did sound funny. I accept that everything can be learnt or practiced to perfection, but a guy who can't even construct a proper sentence being able to hack (which is word-based, in a coding language) state of the art security terminals in government bases or run a debug on securitrons?
Yeah, there are savants, but still, I don't think that fits the player character's versatility.
I dunno, what you described right there sounds like your average IT guy in any given workplace. :P
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 29, 2015, 12:23:25 pm
Me IT, am confirm.Gotta admit, a character with 1 INT and 100 science did sound funny. I accept that everything can be learnt or practiced to perfection, but a guy who can't even construct a proper sentence being able to hack (which is word-based, in a coding language) state of the art security terminals in government bases or run a debug on securitrons?
Yeah, there are savants, but still, I don't think that fits the player character's versatility.
I dunno, what you described right there sounds like your average IT guy in any given workplace. :P
Post by: Wimopy on September 29, 2015, 03:11:39 pm
Me IT, am confirm.Gotta admit, a character with 1 INT and 100 science did sound funny. I accept that everything can be learnt or practiced to perfection, but a guy who can't even construct a proper sentence being able to hack (which is word-based, in a coding language) state of the art security terminals in government bases or run a debug on securitrons?
Yeah, there are savants, but still, I don't think that fits the player character's versatility.
I dunno, what you described right there sounds like your average IT guy in any given workplace. :P
Could you also fight effectively against Super Mutants?
Post by: Teneb on September 30, 2015, 10:29:42 am
Post by: notquitethere on September 30, 2015, 11:47:42 am
Post by: AoshimaMichio on September 30, 2015, 11:55:57 am
Post by: Ultimuh on September 30, 2015, 12:01:24 pm
The odd linkage here is that apparently Charisma will influence how likely you are to become addicted.I bet that it would be among the first things to be "fixed" by mods when the game's creaton kit is released.
Post by: TempAcc on September 30, 2015, 12:04:04 pm
Post by: Teneb on September 30, 2015, 12:05:23 pm
It might be for balance reasons. Maybe. It could be so that stats affect a somewhat equal number of things, to prevent any one stat from becoming the best stat. I hope.The odd linkage here is that apparently Charisma will influence how likely you are to become addicted.I bet that it would be among the first things to be "fixed" by mods when the game's creaton kit is released.
Or it's just that you charm drugs with your charisma so they like you too much to addict you.
Post by: Ultimuh on September 30, 2015, 12:07:36 pm
It might be for balance reasons. Maybe. It could be so that stats affect a somewhat equal number of things, to prevent any one stat from becoming the best stat. I hope.The odd linkage here is that apparently Charisma will influence how likely you are to become addicted.I bet that it would be among the first things to be "fixed" by mods when the game's creaton kit is released.
Or it's just that you charm drugs with your charisma so they like you too much to addict you.
Would still be one of the things I would "fix" with mods.
I don't like it when things doesn't make sense to me. Especially if they are made so for balancing purposes.
/me Stares at Skyrim and it's Daedric Artifacts.
Post by: Rolan7 on September 30, 2015, 12:23:27 pm
I didn't like some of New Vegas's changes either (nerfing VATS into the ground, DR making combat all about maximizing spike damage). But I got used to some of it, and it was kinda the opposite of dumbed-down compared to FO3. Oh well, I guess we'll see. Certainly not preordering though, waiting for mods.
I'm sure the story and setting will be great though, if New Vegas is any indication!
Post by: MasterFancyPants on September 30, 2015, 12:41:16 pm
Story will be meh.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on September 30, 2015, 12:43:58 pm
Post by: scriver on September 30, 2015, 12:52:12 pm
I'm sure the story and setting will be great though, if New Vegas is any indication!
Well, New Vegas was written and developed by Obsidian, who don't have anything to do with F4, so New Vegas isn't any indication :P
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on September 30, 2015, 03:06:58 pm
You're aware that this is by Beth, not Obsidian, right?Y'know, normally, I'd say just deciding that the story will automagically be terrible is a stupid and unfair way to judge a game that hasn't come out yet, but, uh...
Story will be meh.
I've got little hope in the story, moreso in the gameplay. I wonder if they'll let Obsidian make a game in the FO4 engine, though...?
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 30, 2015, 03:09:14 pm
Post by: miauw62 on September 30, 2015, 03:27:30 pm
Post by: Neonivek on September 30, 2015, 03:36:03 pm
I feel like the story is more important in TES than in Fallout, really.
In all fairness the story of Fallout 3 was only "VERY important" because of my prior knowledge of the Fallout universe, the game itself did absolutely nothing to highlight exactly what mass purification of an entire lake and area would mean beyond "trust us ok!".
While New Vegas I couldn't have cared less... Ohh my... land dispute... and they try to grandiose it up and fail miserably. It never stops seeming like a land dispute for a city and a power plant you don't care about. "Ohhh no! This might... cause a mild issue for a few years!". Which STILL could have worked if they made Vegas appealing, but they make it feel like such a sack of scum. The ONLY thing the story has going for it is that it made it personal, which it never really follows up on.
While Skyrim and Oblivion was the exact opposite problem. It sounded absolutely awesome and ground breaking. You knew you had something monumental on your hands that will shake the very fabric of the world for better or worse AND!!!... well... it meant absolutely nothing. Either the danger is pretty happy to sit on its butt or solving the issue feels really lack luster.
---
So no, I honestly think it isn't that the story is more important in either of them.
I just think the 3d Fallout games have an issue with making the story feel as epic as it should be. While the Elder Scroll games (well last two ones anyhow) always feel extremely epic until you find out they really aren't.
Mind you, before you jump down my throat. I always usually avoided winning the games if only because the side quests are usually a lot more interesting (AND in three of those games... there is a penalty for winning)
Post by: Rolan7 on September 30, 2015, 03:46:11 pm
(Fallout NV had much better stories, but I didn't prefer its practically-rebuilt setting. Made a great epilogue to FO2 though.)
And FO4 is apparently concurrent with FO3, in an urban area? So, crap, I'll probably really want to play this for the setting. Maybe the mechanics will be okay. Heck maybe VATS will be feasible again.
Basically: waaah, I want heavy rpg elements, a devastated urban setting, and 3D graphics. I only get two at a time, how unfair :P
Joking because mods will fix everything~
Post by: Bohandas on September 30, 2015, 03:49:21 pm
It might be for balance reasons. Maybe. It could be so that stats affect a somewhat equal number of things, to prevent any one stat from becoming the best stat. I hope.The odd linkage here is that apparently Charisma will influence how likely you are to become addicted.I bet that it would be among the first things to be "fixed" by mods when the game's creaton kit is released.
Or it's just that you charm drugs with your charisma so they like you too much to addict you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU5SEgxdqSg#t=03m56s
Post by: Flying Dice on September 30, 2015, 03:52:34 pm
I really don't play these games for their story anyway. I play for my own stories.This exactly. The plots have never been particularly inspired; FO and TES games do the same thing as most of the other games I really enjoy: they provide a platform for story creation.
Post by: AlleeCat on September 30, 2015, 07:46:30 pm
Best comment.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on September 30, 2015, 09:49:58 pm
Post by: Yoink on September 30, 2015, 10:31:11 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on September 30, 2015, 10:50:26 pm
I feel like New Vegas did a job of telling more stories and with greater interactiveness. And the main quest-web had a lot more options and consequences than the fairly linear main quest in FO3, which got weird towards the end.
But FO3 did a pretty good job at establishing a backstory and providing an interesting world to explore and make your own stories in. It was... more show, less tell/script. Atmospheric instead of social intrigue. I loved both approaches.
I did like that in FO3 there was usually a good reason for the main quest to wait for your attention. Whereas in NV it was kinda weird that you were even important (especially to the main two factions). Much less that the climactic battle waited on you. Because in FO3 you were one of the few people able to brave the capital wasteland at all, an established badass. Plus the main NPC is *your father* so it makes sense that you'd be involved if you wanted to be.
In NV you're in the middle of 2 massive armies conducting a *war*, and you're a freakin courier. Basically a civilian, in a setting so civilized that people waste their time playing slot machines and wearing stupid clothes. Until you start hitting DLCs, there's really not much special about you. Even Mr House doesn't really have any reason to pick you, despite the prior business. And yet, ironically, the main quest is much more in-your-face than the FO3 one.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on September 30, 2015, 11:41:24 pm
Post by: Bohandas on September 30, 2015, 11:52:08 pm
Because in FO3 you were one of the few people able to brave the capital wasteland at all, an established badass. Plus the main NPC is *your father* so it makes sense that you'd be involved if you wanted to be.
In NV you're in the middle of 2 massive armies conducting a *war*, and you're a freakin courier. Basically a civilian, in a setting so civilized that people waste their time playing slot machines and wearing stupid clothes. Until you start hitting DLCs, there's really not much special about you. Even Mr House doesn't really have any reason to pick you, despite the prior business. And yet, ironically, the main quest is much more in-your-face than the FO3 one.
It's kind of implied that many pf Mojave Express' couriers are really badass and that they carry stuff through much less civilized areas as well. Look at Ulysses from Lonesome Road, he's the toughest boss in the whole game. He's tougher than Dr.Mobius' giant robot radscorpion! He also seems to have some sort of influence over a very dangerous tribe of semi-feral ghouls.
EDIT:
The real main issue with FNV's main quest is that if you play the game anything like I do then the main villain dies rather early on and so after that the main quest seems rather pointless (It's quite possible to sneak onto fortification hill uninvited and that's what I do)
Furthermore, there's also the issue that Mr.House is an asshole, yet at the same time not so big of an asshole or so lacking in redeeming qualities that he deserves to die; this makes pretty much all of the possible endings rather unappealing.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on October 01, 2015, 01:33:37 am
Post by: Wimopy on October 01, 2015, 07:20:32 am
Couriers are expected to be badasses. They gotta deliver shit across the Wasteland. That's hardcore... Plus, 'The Courier' has a fucking wonderful ring to it.
Except that one courier in Primm, who, quite unlike you, didn't survive a shot in the head. And he wasn't even attacked by Great Khans and a Chairman, but some escaped prisoners. Of course the prisoners were all pretty bad guys, but nothing a courier shouldn't come across while delivering packages in the Mojave.
Post by: Neonivek on October 01, 2015, 07:23:44 am
They go on established and safe roads and generally speaking aren't given important packages, so bandits have no real reason to rob them.
Post by: Shadowlord on October 01, 2015, 07:37:11 am
Post by: Ultimuh on October 01, 2015, 07:39:06 am
None of the roads seemed particularly safe to me. :V
Go North if you want to be eviscarated by Deathclaws.
Go South if you want to be shot to bits by various raiders or eaten by ants.
Me: But what if I climb over this mountai-
Game: Can't let you do that.
Post by: Wimopy on October 01, 2015, 08:27:00 am
None of the roads seemed particularly safe to me. :V
Go North if you want to be eviscarated by Deathclaws.
Go South if you want to be shot to bits by various raiders or eaten by ants.
Me: But what if I climb over this mountai-
Game: Can't let you do that.
Not quite sure which mountain you're thinking about, but I tried going straight to New Vegas - Radscorpions.
And Black Mountain has Nightkin.
Then there's Sloan/Quarry Junction in the way either way.
So yeah, your choice:
-Road with Cazadores/Deathclaws
-Road with Geckos and Raiders
-Offroad, with Geckos/Cazadores/Deathclaws/Radscorpions/Raiders/BoS/NCR/Legion/Anything
And that's not even mentioning that the area around New Vegas has tons of raiders as well.
About NV's (main) story:
"You get things done. I like you. Join me or I hate you." or "You failed to get something done. Correct it. Join me or I hate you."
There's no option to say "Fuck it, I did my job. I'm a courier. You want a package delivered, pay me. Otherwise, I'm gone."
And New Vegas really doesn't look like it's worth anything. It feels... cramped, but empty. The lights work, but they're not at all impressive. As a whole, it just feels small. I know it's mostly because of consoles that they had to reduce people count and break up NV into even smaller parts (I believe the whole of Freeside was one area, there's a mod that 'restores' that), but this way it's all unimpressive.
There's whole Mojave/West is at stake thing, but you really don't get a feel for what all that entails. At least I didn't come across much that details what there actually is out there. Is the fate of millions at hand? How do they live? How much will be lost to the Legion if they win at the dam?
It all feels vague, distant and meaningless, but still gets forced on you.
FO3 did the involvement a bit better. You're thrown out a Vault and have nothing to do but try and find your father. The whole Project Purity thing is quite far-fetched, but during your travels you actually see the Wasteland you can change. The prospect is bringing water back. All those empty places could be filled with plants if this goes well! It's not a change of who governs empty plots, but what lives in the Wasteland. Also, it's your father and your mother's greatest dream and accomplishment. Might as well do it for that (or go beyond and go for destroying most life, but purifying life).
Actually, in this way, I think FO4 might work. It's pretty good that you know (or can dictate) the backstory of the main character, not just get thrown into the body of a man with an unknown backstory who knows things or doesn't, but you have no idea what's going on.
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 01, 2015, 08:37:12 am
Personally, I prefer NV because it's my first.
Post by: Neonivek on October 01, 2015, 08:47:08 am
The two real factions of new vegas were the NCR who were a nessisary evil... and the Evil Roman Nazis with incredibly inconsistent tones because they weren't MEANT to be the evil choice, but it is like they had two different writers.
Ohh and I guess Vegas itself... but it wasn't so much a faction so much as the "Screw NCR and the Evil Roman Nazis" choice.
Post by: Teneb on October 01, 2015, 09:07:03 am
In NV you're in the middle of 2 massive armies conducting a *war*, and you're a freakin courier. Basically a civilian, in a setting so civilized that people waste their time playing slot machines and wearing stupid clothes. Until you start hitting DLCs, there's really not much special about you. Even Mr House doesn't really have any reason to pick you, despite the prior business. And yet, ironically, the main quest is much more in-your-face than the FO3 one.The NCR really has no excuse for wanting the Courier, but Cesar will outright say that you getting shot in the head, rising from your grave and tracking the shooter across the entire desert got his attention. Mr House is likely the same thing, as well as you proving better than his previous second-in-command (Benny).
There's no option to say "Fuck it, I did my job. I'm a courier. You want a package delivered, pay me. Otherwise, I'm gone."You sort of can demand a raise in your delivery fee from House, though, yeah, there is no option to just walk away that still advances the story.
and the Evil Roman Nazis with incredibly inconsistent tones because they weren't MEANT to be the evil choice, but it is like they had two different writers.More like got nearly their entire half of the map cut out. There was supposed to be a lot of stuff to the east of the river that never got included, which is a shame.
Truth be told, Bethesda is more than capable of building a compelling story (see The Pitt), it's just that they often don't for some reason.
Post by: Kot on October 01, 2015, 09:29:49 am
Post by: BFEL on October 01, 2015, 11:16:17 am
Truth be told, Bethesda is more than capable of building a compelling story (see The Pitt)LOLNO
I would totally love a game where I'm not the saviour of mankind but instead do something that is fucking cool (let's say being a courier (postman?) in post-apocalypic world) and involves lot's of hazards, possibly saving some city by delivering messages or even helping it defend from something, but in the end you're just doing your job. Or maybe a Witcher game where you play younger Geralt aka you don't save fucking world but go around and kill stuff for money.Hilariously this is SORTA what they were going for with Oblivion. I remember somewhere they specifically said that they were trying to move away from "you are the chosen one"
So naturally they instead made you the personal chauffeur of The Chosen One.
And then made you do everything else too.
Oblivion is basically you playing the Badass Butler of The Chosen One, which is kinda cool in its own way, if perhaps
Post by: TempAcc on October 01, 2015, 11:28:55 am
And maybe a sneaking system that consists of more than just crouching and a melee combat system that entails more than hitting the enemy repeately with the same attacks until it dies.
So far Fallout 4 seems able to deliver part of these things, so I'm happy for now.
Post by: Shadowlord on October 01, 2015, 03:15:52 pm
Truth be told, Bethesda is more than capable of building a compelling story (see The Pitt)LOLNO
I think Morrowind was pretty compelling.
Post by: ShoesandHats on October 01, 2015, 05:44:43 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on October 01, 2015, 06:18:03 pm
And maybe a sneaking system that consists of more than just crouching
God, this. This is the single thing I hate the most about combat in TES and the modern FO games. Not only is sneaking this annoying gorilla-walk, but despite the halfassed attempts to be a FPS, FO3/NV didn't even have real crouching, never mind prone or leaning! And it took modders for us to get sprint.
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 01, 2015, 06:19:11 pm
Yeah, I wish Metal Gear Solid was an RPG too.And maybe a sneaking system that consists of more than just crouching
God, this. This is the single thing I hate the most about combat in TES and the modern FO games. Not only is sneaking this annoying gorilla-walk, but despite the halfassed attempts to be a FPS, FO3/NV didn't even have real crouching, never mind prone or leaning! And it took modders for us to get sprint.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 01, 2015, 06:26:24 pm
That's not MGS. That's every vaguely shooterish game with decent controls. STALKER had lean and crouch in 2007 (and finger-twister pseudo-prone, hah). ARMA games, despite their glaring issues, did damned good with stances, especially in ARMA III. Et-fuckin'-cetera.Yeah, I wish Metal Gear Solid was an RPG too.And maybe a sneaking system that consists of more than just crouching
God, this. This is the single thing I hate the most about combat in TES and the modern FO games. Not only is sneaking this annoying gorilla-walk, but despite the halfassed attempts to be a FPS, FO3/NV didn't even have real crouching, never mind prone or leaning! And it took modders for us to get sprint.
FO3's stealth and lack of stances is an artifact of Bethesda being used to making TES games, and is one of the few issues that's directly related to FO3 being Oblivion with guns. Stealth should, if anything, be encompassed by stances and movement, rather than an arbitrary and binary system like it has been, especially now that there's no actual stealth "skill". Have perks to reduce sound, allow silent running, whatever (or better yet, don't--take the CS approach and add a "walk" button that removes sound at the expense of slowing movement), but not the stupid bit about squatting = stealth and there's no way to steady aim for long range shots.
Face it, stealth has always been one of the shittiest aspects of Bethesda games. It's typically absurdly overpowered, and it chains into the abuse of massive crit damage alpha strike builds that have dominated their recent games.
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 01, 2015, 06:29:29 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on October 01, 2015, 06:57:39 pm
PEOPLE SAY THINGS
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 01, 2015, 07:01:29 pm
Post by: Sensei on October 01, 2015, 07:09:05 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on October 01, 2015, 07:11:26 pm
If they were feeling kind, they'd stop trying to kill you, as I recall.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 01, 2015, 07:13:30 pm
...Except using charm, which basically rigged that system. 1sec charm was OP, but other than that it was a neat system, which even took race into account. Plus, you know, what you'd actually done to anger someone.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on October 01, 2015, 07:21:04 pm
Post by: Kot on October 01, 2015, 07:35:18 pm
They kinda did. If you angered people by accident, you could try to yield by holstering your weapon.It diidn't work for me more often than it did.
If they were feeling kind, they'd stop trying to kill you, as I recall.
Maybe because when I finally wanted to yield I had immense bounty on me.
Post by: Bohandas on October 02, 2015, 12:26:38 pm
And maybe a sneaking system that consists of more than just crouching
http://www.awkwardzombie.com/index.php?page=0&comic=042814
and a melee combat system that entails more than hitting the enemy repeately with the same attacks until it dies.
Does anybody else find it ironic that FNV was better in this regard than Skyrim was?
Post by: Krevsin on October 02, 2015, 01:04:24 pm
What I'd really like is a Fallout game with STALKER's shooting. Man that game does open world FPS right.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on October 02, 2015, 05:03:31 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on October 02, 2015, 06:02:18 pm
http://gamerant.com/fallout-4-vats-combat-101/
Okay so VATS doesn't completely stop time anymore, just slows it down. That's actually kinda cool. In particular, might help with the frustration of having a shot blocked, which required popping in and out of VATS to resolve.
The article annoyed me in places, though.
Quote
In Fallout 3 and New Vegas, VATS literally froze time, and allowed players to get shots in on enemies that had no hope of fighting back until the sequence was completed. A lot of players abused the system as a cheap way to keep themselves from death, and Bethesda hopes the tweaks they’re making to VATS will make it more compelling and less prone to abuse.Like, wow. Not sure this guy has ever played a Fallout game, new or old. Particularly New Vegas, where enemies could totally hurt you in VATS.
Of course, I was hoping the game would return to the series's roots of real-time-with-pausing, which FO3 ported to 3D in a reasonable way. Whereas NV nerfed VATS to shit, making the combat pretty much like other FPS. Actually, it seems likely that they're un-nerfing VATS despite removing the absolute timestop. So I might be getting what I want... fingers crossed.
This confused me though:
Quote
Another change being made to VATS is the way that critical hits work in the game. Previously, critical hits, marked by more explosive and devastating shots, were random. Now players will be able to choose which one of their shots in VATS will be the critical hit. This will allow players to be a bit more creative during combat, and should result in a more engaging combat experience overall.
I haven't looked through any gameplay footage, so maybe it's been answered, but I'm not sure how this is supposed to work.
Post by: sambojin on October 02, 2015, 06:57:06 pm
While some of the stuff seems weird from a standard RPG standpoint, it actually kind of makes sense. It's just that it's all arse-about-face.
Why does high charisma make you more resistant to drug addiction? Well, ummm, it doesn't.
It's more-so that highly charismatic people tend not to be known as addicts. Or at least appear not to be (even if they use shitloads of drugs and booze on a regular basis). Even excusing some Hollywood horror stories, until you knew the truth, you never would have known they were crack-heads. Thus high charisma=anti-addiction.
Perception for stealing? Again, arse-about-face. If you are stealing all this stuff, you must be a friggen ninja, seeing all around you and knowing your perfect time to purloin. And not only that, you must be more perceptive than those you're stealing from, because they didn't see you or catch you. So perception=stealing.
Strength for weapon making? When you think of a soldier with a double barrel shotgun, and a chainsaw attached to it, and a grenade-launching-minigun bolted on underneath, you tend to think of a big, burly son-of-a-bitch wielding it. Not some sciencey bloke who would actually probably make that sort of stuff, but some huge sod with a hammer and a welder and a grin and a firepower fetish. So, strength=weapon building.
I think that's as close as I can come to figuring out why some skills in the SPECIAL system got placed where they are. It's all about stereotypes, not really the attribute itself. What kind of person has/does that sort of stuff, and gets away with it/looks cool while doing it?
Can you do three lines, drink the bar dry, and still look awesome? That's charisma. They know you'll do it again tomorrow too. But it's because you're a legend, not a drug-addicted booze hound.
Post by: Puzzlemaker on October 02, 2015, 06:58:35 pm
Post by: sambojin on October 02, 2015, 07:13:05 pm
It'd annoy turn-based players, because you'd have to real-time some longer battles. But since FO has pretty much gone into the FPS mould, but with lots of smaller sporadic battles with decent gaps in between, it shouldn't be too bad on them.
Then VATS is a resource, instead of a fall-back or "I win" button. You could even make equipment options that gives you more VATS time, or have it recharge faster, or slow time even more, etc. Possibly with positives and negatives to any of them, or accuracy/crits/dodge/enemy types/areas of attack/etc. Become a bursty leg chopper, or a rad-scorpion VATS hunter, or bullet-time-matrix-dodge-man.
I know that's more-or-less how it works anyway, but it'd be nice for it to actually be a resource to not only build/stat around, but to itemize around as well.
Post by: scriver on October 02, 2015, 07:17:43 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on October 02, 2015, 07:19:13 pm
The criticals are built up, like a power meter. You can choose when to unleash the beast.B-but, that's not a critical, it's a fricken limit break...
Seriously, it's like they're *trying* to remove every Fallout mechanic from the game. Probably in an effort to be innovative, which I guess is cool. But they're taking it so far.
I'm still really optimistic about the setting and plot, it's just so weird. The Fallout 1 demo was one of the first PC RPGs I played, so I *kinda like* the core mechanics. And FO3 did a surprisingly good job of translating them into 3D.
Now some of these clueless reviewers are literally saying that it's so great that FO4 is going to be more like Borderlands, and I'm just really sad and confused about that! Guess we'll see how it turns out.
Post by: Bohandas on October 02, 2015, 07:50:32 pm
It's a shallow, linear, unpolished piece of shit.
I'm definitely not buying Fallout 4 now.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 02, 2015, 08:13:21 pm
They're shooters with RPG elements. Whereas FO3 was a RPG with optional shooter elements. Then New Vegas was a shooter with RPG elements, but at least the RPG elements were still Fallout mainstays. Now I'm worried they're throwing out the Fallout mechanics in all but name.
Post by: sambojin on October 02, 2015, 08:16:17 pm
Lots of people played Borderlands 1+2, so they have a vague gist of what the person is saying.
Borderlands was great at the time to expand the possibilities of FPS games. Hopefully FO4 is way better, because open'ish world FPS games have come a long way since then too (Bioshock series, Dead Space series, even GTA, et all). Still semi-linear, but rewarding. Bethedsa tends to do far more open worlds than those mentioned as well (well, other than GTA. But more fantastical in its setting). So the major plot will probably be progressive/semi-linear (it has to be for there to be a plot), but there's going to be more "I want to do this, screw the quest or grind" stuff available.
I'm looking forward to it, but it's not a first day purchase for me either.
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 02, 2015, 08:17:04 pm
I don't get what's so great about Borderlands. Borderlands sucks!couldn't agree more
It's a shallow, linear, unpolished piece of shit.
Post by: scriver on October 02, 2015, 08:29:34 pm
Post by: scriver on October 02, 2015, 08:33:00 pm
Er actually I kinda loved Borderlands, especially Borderlands 2... It's just a totally different kind of game, or was.
They're shooters with RPG elements. Whereas FO3 was a RPG with optional shooter elements. Then New Vegas was a shooter with RPG elements, but at least the RPG elements were still Fallout mainstays. Now I'm worried they're throwing out the Fallout mechanics in all but name.
Why would you describe NV as being more of a shooter than FO3 when it's literally the same engine except with more (and higher qualiry) RPG content?
Post by: Rolan7 on October 02, 2015, 08:44:28 pm
Anyway, because in Fallout 3 you could easily get through on VATS alone. Firing the weapons manually was a bit awkward. The VATS hit percentages were quite generous and you were either mostly or totally invincible during the sequence. Your "turn", you could say.
By comparison, VATS was seriously nerfed in New Vegas. Especially for distant targets, which is... most enemies in the desert. It has some very limited use in close quarters fights, but even then it's usually just a couple of bonus hits to give you an edge. New Vegas basically forces you to shoot and swing manually.
And is it really the exact same engine? It looks a lot better, I assumed it evolved like the Source engine.
I liked New Vegas but I wish I could play it as a real-time-with-pausing RPG like FO3. I'm sure there are mods, but it's a fundamental design difference.
Post by: Bohandas on October 02, 2015, 08:45:28 pm
Er actually I kinda loved Borderlands, especially Borderlands 2... It's just a totally different kind of game, or was.
They're shooters with RPG elements. Whereas FO3 was a RPG with optional shooter elements. Then New Vegas was a shooter with RPG elements, but at least the RPG elements were still Fallout mainstays. Now I'm worried they're throwing out the Fallout mechanics in all but name.
Why would you describe NV as being more of a shooter than FO3 when it's literally the same engine except with more (and higher qualiry) RPG content?
In fact, if you want to get technical, I'd say that in a literal sense FNV technically had less shooting, theoretically at least, because melee combat was so much more polished. I suppose one could argue that that constitutes the RPG elements being slightly diluted by hack-and-slash elements, but if so the shpoter emements were also diluted to an equal or greater degree.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on October 02, 2015, 09:23:36 pm
I don't get what's so great about Borderlands. Borderlands sucks!Tears sure are delicious.
It's a shallow, linear, unpolished piece of shit.
I'm definitely not buying Fallout 4 now.
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 02, 2015, 10:06:46 pm
That's kind of like saying Oblivion had less melee combat than Skyrim, because Oblivion's magic system was so customizable and good.
Post by: Krevsin on October 02, 2015, 11:54:31 pm
I don't get what's so great about Borderlands. Borderlands sucks!So wait because Borderlands was an unpolished, grindfesty boring shmup set in a dull, linear environment, Fallout 4 is going to suck?
It's a shallow, linear, unpolished piece of shit.
I'm definitely not buying Fallout 4 now.
I'm not sure I quite follow the logic there.
Post by: Bohandas on October 03, 2015, 12:08:25 am
I don't get what's so great about Borderlands. Borderlands sucks!So wait because Borderlands was an unpolished, grindfesty boring shmup set in a dull, linear environment, Fallout 4 is going to suck?
It's a shallow, linear, unpolished piece of shit.
I'm definitely not buying Fallout 4 now.
I'm not sure I quite follow the logic there.
THat was in response to a review that described Fallout 4 as "like Borderlands"
Post by: Cheedows on October 03, 2015, 12:15:25 am
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on October 03, 2015, 12:32:36 am
I think Borderlands was a bit grindy was because it was designed around grind specifically.I don't get what's so great about Borderlands. Borderlands sucks!So wait because Borderlands was an unpolished, grindfesty boring shmup set in a dull, linear environment, Fallout 4 is going to suck?
It's a shallow, linear, unpolished piece of shit.
I'm definitely not buying Fallout 4 now.
I'm not sure I quite follow the logic there.
THat was in response to a review that described Fallout 4 as "like Borderlands"
I don't think people are going to design F4 like that just yet if they value their lives.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 03, 2015, 12:37:37 am
Seems kinda odd for the criticals to be a power up bar, how will running a luck-crit build work then? Shorter recharge rate for the bar or something?Pretty sure it's only for VATS.
Post by: Bohandas on October 03, 2015, 12:47:34 am
I think Borderlands was a bit grindy was because it was designed around grind specifically.I don't get what's so great about Borderlands. Borderlands sucks!So wait because Borderlands was an unpolished, grindfesty boring shmup set in a dull, linear environment, Fallout 4 is going to suck?
It's a shallow, linear, unpolished piece of shit.
I'm definitely not buying Fallout 4 now.
I'm not sure I quite follow the logic there.
THat was in response to a review that described Fallout 4 as "like Borderlands"
I don't think people are going to design F4 like that just yet if they value their lives.
Still not gonna risk it. Not any time soon at any rate. Maybe in a decade or so during a sale when I can get it for 5 dollars
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on October 03, 2015, 12:51:16 am
Post by: Bohandas on October 03, 2015, 12:53:11 am
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on October 03, 2015, 12:58:30 am
ROLAN, COULD YOU PLEASE LINK US TO THIS REVIEW?
Post by: Krevsin on October 03, 2015, 01:00:35 am
In fact, the only way one might think what has been shown of FO4 is similar to Borderlands is if they looked at the most superficial data available, as in "oh, it's an FPS with levels and enemies have health bars".
Post by: Shadowlord on October 03, 2015, 01:09:52 am
</sarcasm>
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 03, 2015, 01:21:19 am
*I know this is obvious.
Post by: miauw62 on October 03, 2015, 02:05:54 am
So because somebody mentioned a review about a game that isn't out yet where the term "like Borderlands" is used as a general descriptor, you're "definitely" not going to buy it?I think Borderlands was a bit grindy was because it was designed around grind specifically.I don't get what's so great about Borderlands. Borderlands sucks!So wait because Borderlands was an unpolished, grindfesty boring shmup set in a dull, linear environment, Fallout 4 is going to suck?
It's a shallow, linear, unpolished piece of shit.
I'm definitely not buying Fallout 4 now.
I'm not sure I quite follow the logic there.
THat was in response to a review that described Fallout 4 as "like Borderlands"
I don't think people are going to design F4 like that just yet if they value their lives.
Still not gonna risk it. Not any time soon at any rate. Maybe in a decade or so during a sale when I can get it for 5 dollars
Seems to me like borderlands isn't the only shallow thing here.
And I enjoyed Borderlands. It has coop, which is something I love, didn't really feel grindy (the game seems to be balanced around you doing most of the sidequests, which I didn't mind), shooting stuff with a few types of weapons with a quite different feel was fun, the game looked pretty nice and getting sweet new loot is exciting.
Probably doesn't have much in terms of replay value, though.
Post by: Sensei on October 03, 2015, 02:08:35 am
Now some of these clueless reviewers are literally saying that it's so great that FO4 is going to be more like Borderlands, and I'm just really sad and confused about that! Guess we'll see how it turns out.That's, uh, concerning. I mean, I enjoyed the Borderlands games, but they don't stay with me the way Fallout/Elder Scrolls games do. Can you link the review in question?
I have to admit, it would be funny if the reviewer in question just thinks we need a comparison to Borderlands to understand a game with both shooting and questing in it, the way every hard game was "like dark souls" for the past couple years.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on October 03, 2015, 02:27:26 am
Post by: Krevsin on October 03, 2015, 03:00:27 am
I think it's definitely the latter, i.e. "there's no real point of reference for this, so I'll just look for the closest thing that has superficially similar elements".Now some of these clueless reviewers are literally saying that it's so great that FO4 is going to be more like Borderlands, and I'm just really sad and confused about that! Guess we'll see how it turns out.That's, uh, concerning. I mean, I enjoyed the Borderlands games, but they don't stay with me the way Fallout/Elder Scrolls games do. Can you link the review in question?
I have to admit, it would be funny if the reviewer in question just thinks we need a comparison to Borderlands to understand a game with both shooting and questing in it, the way every hard game was "like dark souls" for the past couple years.
Post by: notquitethere on October 03, 2015, 03:48:44 am
Thoughts on the SPECIAL system.[snip]This actually makes a lot of sense! Let's see if the last three stats conform to this picture.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 03, 2015, 04:05:26 am
1. FO4 revealed to have a system which generates weapons using sets of parts.
2. Some reviewer says, "Oh, sort of like Borderlands!"
3. "WHAAA BORDERLANDS R TEH SUX I NO BUY IF FO4 IS COPY OF BORDERLANDS"
4. kek
I'd be willing to lay money on the Borderlands comparison being related to the weapon modding/crafting system; that's exactly what it reminded me of at first glance as well.
Post by: scriver on October 03, 2015, 04:24:47 am
Thoughts on the SPECIAL system.[snip]This actually makes a lot of sense! Let's see if the last three stats conform to this picture.
That's not sense, that's an overly convoluted rationalization of something that it's far likelier did not have that much thought put into it.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on October 03, 2015, 04:26:24 am
Post by: Krevsin on October 03, 2015, 04:44:56 am
Post by: Neonivek on October 03, 2015, 04:54:01 am
Charisma is per tradition a dump stat. It's nice to see it be more relevant.
Charisma has always been kind of unusual. It usually is a dump stat unless you were going for a more diplomatic game...
But then sometimes there were these charisma perks that were oddly useful that used charisma...
Post by: Rolan7 on October 03, 2015, 08:57:33 am
So charisma provides... Better deals, improved relations, certain unusual perks like Divine Favor (reduces PERK RATE, was only in tactics though). Then also determines how many dudes you can bring into combat with you. In FO3 it was relatively unimportant, but in New Vegas they did a better job of letting you talk your way through situations.
So yeah CHA was better than in many RPGs
@Borderlands stuff
Wow do I regret offhandedly mentioning that now!
I mean, this article did upset me, but comparing the game to Borderlands and other shooters with RPG elements was only part of that:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2015/06/08/the-one-feature-i-hope-fallout-4-ditches-from-the-series/
Er actually I kinda loved Borderlands, especially Borderlands 2... It's just a totally different kind of game, or was.
They're shooters with RPG elements. Whereas FO3 was a RPG with optional shooter elements. Then New Vegas was a shooter with RPG elements, but at least the RPG elements were still Fallout mainstays. Now I'm worried they're throwing out the Fallout mechanics in all but name.
Post by: Arbinire on October 03, 2015, 10:13:43 am
Post by: Kaje on October 03, 2015, 11:23:59 am
The more information released about the game the less and less it sounds like an epic post-nuclear RPG, and the more and more it sounds like your above-average post-apocalyptic FPS.
What? Are you for real?
Jeez.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 03, 2015, 11:49:18 am
You didn't have to be a FPS gamer to enjoy Fallout 3, which made sense because it was a 3D installment of a treasured RPG franchise. It was, despite technically being a 3D shooter, primarily an RPG. Much like KoTOR.
New Vegas changed that entirely. While they improved many non-combat portions of the game, and arguably improved the combat, they also *changed* the combat such that VATS was no longer sufficient in most situations. To enjoy Fallout: New Vegas, you had to have decent FPS ability. Even if you went with melee or shotgun-type weapons.
It fundamentally moved towards the genre of shooter, with RPG elements on the side.
Now in Fallout 4, they're...
* Potentially nerfing VATS even further, by making it not even pause. (Though I hold hope that they'll restore the deadliness it offered in FO3)
* Replacing skills with a system of multi-level perks. Which confirms a continuing lack of interest in the original Fallout RPG mechanics. It's also the system used in the Borderlands franchise. At least we still have SPECIAL, but...
* They also changed up what SPECIAL stats do what.
I'm sure they have the best intentions, but they are actively scrapping the classic RPG mechanics of the series. This *concerns me*. I think it's reasonable to worry that they'll continue to focus on the manual shooting portion of the game, with player skill trumping character skill. Because New Vegas already *did* that to a large extent, and now they've even removed skills.
Not that New Vegas was bad, but Fallout 3 proved that they could make a fun 3D RPG. I don't want it to be yet another Mass Effect or Borderlands. (Even though those are good games, and I especially LOVE Borderlands 2)
Post by: AoshimaMichio on October 03, 2015, 12:27:08 pm
I keep hoping that final product is good RPG until proved otherwise. And none can really prove otherwise before game is released and someone completes its main quest. And posts review.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 03, 2015, 12:29:36 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on October 03, 2015, 12:54:27 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 03, 2015, 01:15:21 pm
Post by: Facekillz058 on October 03, 2015, 01:33:29 pm
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on October 03, 2015, 01:54:44 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on October 03, 2015, 02:05:53 pm
Post by: miauw62 on October 03, 2015, 02:37:24 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on October 03, 2015, 02:42:02 pm
...I can't find anything about speech checks resulting in in self destruction in fallout three.
Spoiler: Spoilers, Obviously (click to show/hide)
Post by: miauw62 on October 03, 2015, 02:49:24 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 03, 2015, 03:25:49 pm
That's convenient, since it was the hardest speech check in the game, IIRC.Actually, reading the wiki
Post by: Shadowlord on October 03, 2015, 03:27:57 pm
Post by: Gabeux on October 03, 2015, 03:47:03 pm
Long example:
In one of the first quests of FO3 - the Grayditch Ant-Invasion one - you have a multitude of choices:
- Kill/Let live the Researcher who, through experiments, caused Giant Ants to mutate into Fire Ants
- Kill/Let live the Ant Queen
- Destroy/Ignore the mutagen for the next ant generation so the experiments to go on
- Maybe more
I sided with the Researcher since in my first playthrough (when the game first came out years ago) I killed him instantly when he admitted creating the ants.
So, this time, I let the Queen live, let the work continue, etc. And on the end of the quest, he offered to give me +1 Strength or +1 Perception.
After that, I killed the Queen and destroyed the Mutagen in front of him (which gave me Good Karma), and filled the cave with explosives in case he ever tries to leave.
And hey..nothing happened at any point, because I had already completed the quest. I wonder if FO4 will be any different.
PS: Even though the scientist was doing good work trying to turn the ants back into their normal size, he was using the FEV (which I have very, very little knowledge about because I never played FO1 or FO:Tactics, and couldn't finish FO2 because I absolutely hate the interface..and because I "broke" a savegame that had HOURS of play, and my backups were days old), and he was experimenting right next to people with no regard for human life.
So hey, fuck that sort of science in that context. We have Power Armors, just burn every single Queen to death and do artificial selection. Or do your science in an isolated region without bringing more suffering to the world!
God damn I need Fallout 4 so I can bring more shotgun justice to that world.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on October 03, 2015, 03:50:03 pm
Post by: Gabeux on October 03, 2015, 03:53:39 pm
I still remember exploding Caesar with the Power Fist and reloading so I could do it again.
But hey, vydiagames!
Post by: scriver on October 03, 2015, 04:05:16 pm
And hey..nothing happened at any point, because I had already completed the quest. I wonder if FO4 will be any different.
Unless Beth has changed their mo since Skyrim, it likely won't.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 03, 2015, 04:06:54 pm
Well..in NV I killed every single Legion guy I saw, no matter where/how/when. I think that was the first game that got me worried about my psychology, because I enjoyed doing it.I love it when games have an impact like that! And New Vegas had that in... spades 8)
But honestly, the thing that made me question myself the most was my third run, where I actually supported the Legion. As a woman.
I designed the run to make no sense, and be intentionally sick, and yet... Ugh. Shit like that actually happens.
Post by: umiman on October 03, 2015, 04:34:53 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 03, 2015, 04:36:18 pm
I think the game decided it made so little sense that it had to destroy the save.
Post by: Graknorke on October 03, 2015, 05:21:10 pm
Shit like that actually happens.Are there really many forces equivalent to the Legion going around nowadays?
Post by: Rolan7 on October 03, 2015, 05:26:20 pm
Post by: dennislp3 on October 03, 2015, 06:14:59 pm
Post by: Bohandas on October 03, 2015, 08:56:36 pm
Not around here. Mostly in parts of the middle-east and africa.Shit like that actually happens.Are there really many forces equivalent to the Legion going around nowadays?
Post by: sambojin on October 03, 2015, 09:00:49 pm
"You know, you're a bit like Borderlands in some ways.", he said, shaking his head in disgust.
Post by: Bohandas on October 03, 2015, 09:04:33 pm
I have, every good-karma playthrough of NV, without fail, killed Vulpes Inculta and his legionaries.
I've killed him on EVERY playthrough, even the evil ones. There's a big world of difference between the Legion and the relatively benign Fiends and Powder Gang.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 03, 2015, 09:17:39 pm
Dunno about the Fiends, they seem as monstrous as the Legion. Just more inept. I mean, they're all about the rape too, they just aren't a state-spanning empire of it.
Re-downloading FO3 now, I never really did anything with Tenpenny tower. I'm going to ignore the courier's obnoxious moustache-twirling evilness and actually give the tower a shot. From what my friends say, many of the occupants are pretty reasonable people.
For combat I'll probably go with melee and big guns. I've overused energy weapons in pretty much every game, using small guns at first in the early games where energy weapons were actually at all rare. And my last NV playthrough was a very successful unarmed run (where I was armed almost from the start... Should have gone for paralyzing palm I guess, but the "unarmed" arms dealt so much damage.) Always avoided blades and big guns.
I seem to remember a flaming chainsword, I think it was in the den of vampires... Old half-remembered memories are the best memories!
Post by: Bohandas on October 03, 2015, 09:36:29 pm
Yeah the Powder Gangers make sense to me.
Dunno about the Fiends, they seem as monstrous as the Legion. Just more inept. I mean, they're all about the rape too, they just aren't a state-spanning empire of it.
They're not all about rape, it's just one of the things they happen to do. The Legion on the other hand is all about rape...and slavery...and suppression of dissidents...and violence in general...and in addition to these physical evils also just about every vile mental vice imaginable, militancy, ludditeism, ultranationalism, sexism, a cult of personality, cultural chauvinism...
Post by: TheDarkStar on October 03, 2015, 10:17:19 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 03, 2015, 10:20:01 pm
Post by: umiman on October 03, 2015, 10:21:01 pm
Well... The other thing is that their system of government has no future whatsoever due to how every single thing revolves around one single dude who clearly hasn't trained or prepared anyone to take over. He doesn't even appear to delegate jobs properly. He should have played more Crusader Kings 2.
Honestly Caesar is more like Alexander the Great than Julius Caesar.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on October 03, 2015, 10:30:28 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on October 03, 2015, 10:55:31 pm
That's right, Fiends aren't just about rape, they're also about cannibalism and drug abuse!Yeah the Powder Gangers make sense to me.
Dunno about the Fiends, they seem as monstrous as the Legion. Just more inept. I mean, they're all about the rape too, they just aren't a state-spanning empire of it.
They're not all about rape, it's just one of the things they happen to do. The Legion on the other hand is all about rape...and slavery...and suppression of dissidents...and violence in general...and in addition to these physical evils also just about every vile mental vice imaginable, militancy, ludditeism, ultranationalism, sexism, a cult of personality, cultural chauvinism...
Post by: Teneb on October 03, 2015, 10:57:23 pm
IIRC, it's hard to play as a high-karma character and also help the Legion.It's actually trivially easy. I had to go to great lengths in order to lower my karma to neutral in my legion run. The reason for that is that some enemies give way too much karma for being killed, when it makes no sense for them to give karma at all. Feral ghouls are the main offenders, especially the ones in the tunnels near the Boomer base. You also get no negative karma by killed the NCR troopers. Or by doing Legion quests, I think. I think the only way to actually get negative karma is to kill civilians and commit crimes (as well as cannibalism, I guess).
Let's not forget burning people alive for sport, that's the most important part.That's right, Fiends aren't just about rape, they're also about cannibalism and drug abuse!Yeah the Powder Gangers make sense to me.
Dunno about the Fiends, they seem as monstrous as the Legion. Just more inept. I mean, they're all about the rape too, they just aren't a state-spanning empire of it.
They're not all about rape, it's just one of the things they happen to do. The Legion on the other hand is all about rape...and slavery...and suppression of dissidents...and violence in general...and in addition to these physical evils also just about every vile mental vice imaginable, militancy, ludditeism, ultranationalism, sexism, a cult of personality, cultural chauvinism...
Post by: Rolan7 on October 03, 2015, 11:03:11 pm
...not sure how one eats a skeleton in a spacesuit, but my mad scientist found a way.
Post by: Arbinire on October 03, 2015, 11:07:12 pm
Cannibalism actually gives an incredibly tiny amount of negative karma. Everyone still thought I was the bees knees, even after eating most of Big MT's test subjects.
...not sure how one eats a skeleton in a spacesuit, but my mad scientist found a way.
http://paleoleap.com/eat-this-bone-broth/
Post by: Bohandas on October 04, 2015, 12:16:24 am
Let's not forget burning people alive for sport, that's the most important part.That's right, Fiends aren't just about rape, they're also about cannibalism and drug abuse!Yeah the Powder Gangers make sense to me.
Dunno about the Fiends, they seem as monstrous as the Legion. Just more inept. I mean, they're all about the rape too, they just aren't a state-spanning empire of it.
They're not all about rape, it's just one of the things they happen to do. The Legion on the other hand is all about rape...and slavery...and suppression of dissidents...and violence in general...and in addition to these physical evils also just about every vile mental vice imaginable, militancy, ludditeism, ultranationalism, sexism, a cult of personality, cultural chauvinism...
The legion or the Fiends? They both burn people alive.
Post by: Krevsin on October 04, 2015, 12:45:03 am
Their actual conquered lands are supposedly peaceful and people live mostly ordinary lives in them (albeit relying on slavery more than machines for labour). Buuuuuuuuut you don't really see this in the actual game because it was cut out, so you have to trust the dialogue.
I seriously wish Obsidian made a DLC that takes place in legion-occupied land. Instead of Honest Hearts preferably. Because that'd at least make Legion seem less cartoonishly evil and by gods did we not need a tale of canadian tribals.
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 04, 2015, 12:54:31 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on October 04, 2015, 01:08:45 am
no but really i genuinely want a DLC or something set in Canada ;~;
Post by: Bohandas on October 04, 2015, 01:18:34 am
Zion Canyon is actually located in Utah, unless one of the tribal groups in HH is from Canada and I was somehow unaware. :P
Yeah. I think one of the groups was partly descended from german tourists, but I don't remember any of them being canadian
Post by: Krevsin on October 04, 2015, 01:20:09 am
Whatshisface the guide sounds canadian (eh?) so them being canadian tribals is my headcanon. :PZion Canyon is actually located in Utah, unless one of the tribal groups in HH is from Canada and I was somehow unaware. :P
Yeah. I think one of the groups was partly descended from german tourists, but I don't remember any of them being canadian
WHAT IS WRONG WITH CANADIANS, ANYWAY? [/joke]There is no Canada. There is only the United States of America. There never was a Canada. Canada is not even a thing. You are imagining things. You are under the influence of communist propaganda. Report to your nearest police station for further instructions.
no but really i genuinely want a DLC or something set in Canada ;~;
Anyway, seeing how FO4 moves the setting a bit northward, perhaps one of the DLCs for it might explore that?
Post by: Shadowlord on October 04, 2015, 01:24:12 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on October 04, 2015, 01:25:43 am
Besides, Toronto I believe still exists. Referred to as 'Ronto' I think?
Post by: Aseaheru on October 04, 2015, 01:46:21 am
Anyway, seeing how FO4 moves the setting a bit northward, perhaps one of the DLCs for it might explore that?
That would be nice. Considering they give you a helicopter, the limits on where they can shove DLC just got a whole lot smaller... Hell, they might have you go to DC or something.
Post by: Aedel on October 04, 2015, 01:51:03 am
Didn't the US invade canada for the oil or something?
The US moved soldiers through Canada to get to Alaska. After Canada started getting angry, they just conquered Canada.
Post by: Aseaheru on October 04, 2015, 01:53:03 am
Least, thats what the newspaper talks about
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on October 04, 2015, 01:58:14 am
Post by: Gabeux on October 04, 2015, 02:05:20 am
Anyway, seeing how FO4 moves the setting a bit northward, perhaps one of the DLCs for it might explore that?
That would be nice. Considering they give you a helicopter, the limits on where they can shove DLC just got a whole lot smaller... Hell, they might have you go to DC or something.
I'd love that. I remember how I liked in GTA4 (I think?) when you have a mission in Liberty City, near the mafia house from GTA3. The nostalgia overloaded me back then.
And playing FO3 again, I notice how I probably didn't explore the whole map on my first playthrough years ago, and that pisses me off because I had so much free time back then. There's even a location called "Bethesda Ruins" and so many amazing silly stuff I don't remember exploring.
Last time I played I also found Dogmeat, who likes to attack Deathclaws and facetank them, yet he dies for a Mole Rat. I don't get it.
Back then I also didn't understand/notice how the level balancing mechanics worked. Now I notice that there are places I can instakill Talon Mercenaries, and places where it takes a full AR clip to their head in order to kill them.
Post by: BlackFlyme on October 04, 2015, 02:15:30 am
Of course, that makes me think there was DEFINITELY some Canadian vaults. Or something similar.
Vault-rejection letters can be found in FO3 that mention alternate vaults the recipient may apply for instead, which were in Oklahoma and "newly-annexed Canada". There is always the possibility of "survivors hid in a metro station", too. Even if it wouldn't help that much in real life.
There were two NPCs in FO2 that were from Canada. One from the Yukon, and another whose birthplace is not mentioned in the Fallout wiki.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on October 04, 2015, 02:24:11 am
Post by: Wimopy on October 04, 2015, 02:48:58 am
IIRC, Operation Anchorage had a picture with a conquered Canada. Not sure.
Post by: Gabeux on October 04, 2015, 03:52:26 am
But based on how troll FO Universe is, I bet they'd all be ghouls.
PS: It's 6am here, so I get to be a little weird.
Post by: Krevsin on October 04, 2015, 04:06:12 am
You know, just like real Canada. ;)
Post by: Wimopy on October 04, 2015, 07:30:38 am
Also, polar bear yao guai?
Maple Syrup?
Post by: sprinkled chariot on October 04, 2015, 07:43:37 am
Post by: BFEL on October 04, 2015, 08:01:50 am
You know what *I* want to see explored in a Fallout game?
FUCKIN CHINA.
LETS GO SEE WHAT HAPPENED TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE PLANETWAR.
Post by: miauw62 on October 04, 2015, 08:05:01 am
fallout but with a ww2 aesthetic instead of a 50s america aesthetic?
might not feel like fallout at all but i like the idea :v
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 04, 2015, 08:08:52 am
Post by: Krevsin on October 04, 2015, 08:53:03 am
i feel like europe could also be pretty interesting.Europe was pretty fucked even before the nukes started flying IIRC.
fallout but with a ww2 aesthetic instead of a 50s america aesthetic?
might not feel like fallout at all but i like the idea :v
So it'd be survivors of a large-scale conventional war surviving a nuclear war.
I'm calling it, Europe has some of the biggest badasses in the postnuke fallout world. Or biggest cowards. Either works fine.
Post by: Teneb on October 04, 2015, 08:54:12 am
What about Midwestern Fallout?If you mean midwestern US, there was the Brotherhood of Steel game that was set there.
Post by: notquitethere on October 04, 2015, 08:57:39 am
Post by: Graknorke on October 04, 2015, 12:27:41 pm
Fallout: Bognor Regis...I'll go get a notebook.
Post by: sambojin on October 04, 2015, 05:22:40 pm
Imagine how weird it got after the war?
(unless of course FO and Mad Max are set in the same universe, then we already know)
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 04, 2015, 05:30:30 pm
Post by: sambojin on October 04, 2015, 06:08:40 pm
Post by: scriver on October 04, 2015, 06:23:34 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 04, 2015, 06:50:53 pm
But 95% of them are some sort of animal instead of humans.
Post by: Creaca on October 04, 2015, 07:52:39 pm
FO1 or 2 had Canadian Rebels attack you when you got to the north of the map.
Wait. What?
Canadian Rebels?
Operating in Northern California?
200 years after the apocalyse?
Post by: notquitethere on October 04, 2015, 07:55:36 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on October 04, 2015, 07:55:58 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on October 04, 2015, 08:23:01 pm
They got lost?FO1 or 2 had Canadian Rebels attack you when you got to the north of the map.
Wait. What?
Canadian Rebels?
Operating in Northern California?
200 years after the apocalyse?
Post by: Graknorke on October 04, 2015, 08:38:52 pm
Canadian people's frontCanucks did 9/11.
Maple syrup can't melt steel beams.
Post by: notquitethere on October 04, 2015, 09:59:44 pm
I've just done the maths. Fallout 2 covers a square about 300 miles high by 300 wide. The equivalent square in Britain would cover everything south of Newcastle and would still be smaller due to all the water. In contrast, Fallout 3 is roughly a square 14 miles high and wide. If we take the latter scale for Fallout: Bognor Regis, you'd have the eponymous city in the south, with the South Downs as the northern border, Chichester to the west and Littlehampton to the east. As the area is mostly fields, you could faithfully render every village as an explorable landmark.Fallout: Bognor Regis...I'll go get a notebook.
Of course, if we were really making an English Fallout, we'd pick an area more densely packed with actual landmarks. London would be obvious but too much hard work. I suggest the are around Newcastle! You'd get in distinctive landmarks like the Angel of the North and South Shields Pier, with plenty of mostly empty ground in the middle for encounter-filled travelling between the towns.
The great thing is, the place names already sound like they're from a post-apocalyptic wasteland. Nuke-Castle (or is that too on-the-nose?), Low Fell, Sunder, Lamesly, Jarrow... and uh, Kibblesworth. You could even use the River Tyne as a natural northern border (with only central Newcastle, south of the river, accessible)
Spoiler: Proposed Map (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rolan7 on October 04, 2015, 10:10:08 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 04, 2015, 10:26:54 pm
So a lotta places, but there's probably places like Zion (minus radioactive but possibly with evolved) creatures running amok.
Post by: notquitethere on October 04, 2015, 10:31:11 pm
Logically speaking, there probably shouldn't be any super mutants or deathclaw-analogues as there shouldn't be any FEV in Europe.
Post by: sambojin on October 04, 2015, 10:42:50 pm
It'd probably make for a great comedy series, unless you lived there.
And the weather got even crappier.
That's reason enough to leave, surely?
Post by: notquitethere on October 04, 2015, 10:59:22 pm
Spoiler: Everything would look like this (click to show/hide)
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 04, 2015, 11:11:34 pm
Post by: notquitethere on October 04, 2015, 11:17:30 pm
Post by: notquitethere on October 04, 2015, 11:24:09 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 04, 2015, 11:29:46 pm
But yeah. How did he come over, exactly? Boat?
Post by: Catastrophic lolcats on October 05, 2015, 12:00:23 am
Apparently a man managed to organise some way to cross the atlantic ocean in a low resource/tech post-apocalyptic world with no given motive. Decides to settle in the arse end of nowhere in a crappy pre-war hotel despite probably having extreme wealth and power. Demands the closest settlement (and possible only source of trade/customers) to be nuked because he's a caricature with no personality. Not a single person in the universe notes that this is odd.
Post by: notquitethere on October 05, 2015, 12:10:57 am
Post by: Putnam on October 05, 2015, 12:25:51 am
what is up with that
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 05, 2015, 12:31:09 am
Post by: Mech#4 on October 05, 2015, 12:42:41 am
Most of the characters seemed like they were mid to late 20s.
Maybe they don't have someone who's very good at giving directions to voice actors.
Post by: notquitethere on October 05, 2015, 01:01:08 am
Post by: Majestic7 on October 05, 2015, 01:02:42 am
I mean, what the fuck? That is the worst writing I have ever seen in a computer game and that takes some doing. They fixed this later, but it showed how crappy Bethes writers are. Some of the side quests in original Fallout3 were really nice - or more like things you could just find that were not part of any quest - but the main story was written by drunk monkeys.
So I expect Fallout 4 to have a completely corny and shitty main story, but hey, it can still be an entertaining game, as long as the ending isn't complete bullshit.
Post by: notquitethere on October 05, 2015, 01:20:48 am
Interestingly, the ending of Wasteland 2 is structurally similar...
Spoiler: Actual major spoilers (click to show/hide)
In Fallout 3 they needed the ending to be the fulfilment of the protagonist's arc, but this was a mistake because in a game about making choices, there should never be just one possible character arc for the player.
Post by: Geltor on October 05, 2015, 05:20:08 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 05, 2015, 05:39:34 am
[Edit] Holy shit, Mothership Zeta is cathartic with an Energy Weapons character. 1HKO headshots with the alien pistols are amazing, and I get a OHKO sneak crit with the Disintegrator. <3
...I mean, until I get swarmed or encounter a turret.
Post by: MasterFancyPants on October 05, 2015, 12:21:33 pm
If you want to mention bad writing, anyone remember the original Fallout 3 ending? There is an irradiated chamber with a lever to pull. The radiation is lethal. If you ask your super mutant/ghoul/robot combination to do it, he says "nope, doing it is your DESTINY". So although the character has a companion who is immune to the radiation, he must go there and die.
I mean, what the fuck? That is the worst writing I have ever seen in a computer game and that takes some doing. They fixed this later, but it showed how crappy Bethes writers are. Some of the side quests in original Fallout3 were really nice - or more like things you could just find that were not part of any quest - but the main story was written by drunk monkeys.
So I expect Fallout 4 to have a completely corny and shitty main story, but hey, it can still be an entertaining game, as long as the ending isn't complete bullshit.
The entire premise of 3 was dumb. IRL you can swim in a fuel rod cooling tank. How did the ENTIRE (according to Point Lookout) ocean become radioactive, but the land stay fine?
You would think they'd do some research on radiation when making a game called Fallout.
Post by: Neonivek on October 05, 2015, 12:27:41 pm
Tenpenny embodies everything wrong with Bethesda writing.
Apparently a man managed to organise some way to cross the atlantic ocean in a low resource/tech post-apocalyptic world with no given motive. Decides to settle in the arse end of nowhere in a crappy pre-war hotel despite probably having extreme wealth and power. Demands the closest settlement (and possible only source of trade/customers) to be nuked because he's a caricature with no personality. Not a single person in the universe notes that this is odd.
Tenpenny is a caricature but I never felt it was wrong.
He is a psychopath, he is something who in the REAL world would be locked up or get psychological help and never be taken seriously yet alone run a hotel.
Yet this is the Fallout universe. Where someone that blatantly insane not only can walk freely but also get a bit of power. It helps get you into the mindset of the post-apocalyptic wasteland. He is a MONSTER! but no one is going to come and stop him.
It helps that he is such a small part of the game and his overall isolation allows his "psychosis" to make more sense.
Quote
The entire premise of 3 was dumb. IRL you can swim in a fuel rod cooling tank. How did the ENTIRE (according to Point Lookout) ocean become radioactive, but the land stay fine?
You would think they'd do some research on radiation when making a game called Fallout
Dear holy goodness... Fallout is BASED on lousy science. Terrible black and white era science!
They even make fun of this fact with how Rad-away works.
And NO the land isn't fine. Everything is irradiated. Absolutely everything is coated in thick radiation.
Post by: MasterFancyPants on October 05, 2015, 12:53:00 pm
Examples? Fallout 1 & 2 Had beneficial mutations, laser\plasma weapons, and eyebots (how the fuck is that supposed to work?). Rad-away is semi believable: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex-Rad
Dear holy goodness... Fallout is BASED on lousy science. Terrible black and white era science!
They even make fun of this fact with how Rad-away works.
And NO the land isn't fine. Everything is irradiated. Absolutely everything is coated in thick radiation.
If the ground was radioactive then you would constantly gain radiation.
I can handle radiation being gameified. I always saw it as the amount of radioactive material in your body.
However, Beth took suspension of disbelief and shit all over it.
Post by: Neonivek on October 05, 2015, 01:04:38 pm
The difference is any place you actually gain "radiation" is a incredibly high abundance of radiation. Versus the constant background radiation the rest of the world is infected with.
For example Nukacola has Radium in it. At least I think Radium was the nuclear compound inside it (could have been Uranium or Plutonium)
As for Ex-Rad... What it does and what Rad-away does is quite different. No compound can remove someone's radioactivity in real life. Ex-Rad functions the same as most compounds in that it protects you from radiation (which does in essence make you less radioactive because radiation is self-catalytic. But you still have to wait for it to break down)
--
Though what do you need examples of exactly? Intentional bad science?
Post by: Shadowlord on October 05, 2015, 01:16:42 pm
Post by: Tellemurius on October 05, 2015, 01:27:09 pm
Post by: Neonivek on October 05, 2015, 01:48:37 pm
Remember that movie "Blast From the Past" about the couple and their child creating a fallout shelter that needs to remain closed for Thirty Five Years because if a nuclear bomb hit, then the radiation would be lethal for that long... and even then they fully suspected it would still be a nuclear wasteland that they would need protective suits to survive.
When in reality they could have successfully hoofed it if they waited a year... and five to guarantee their survival... with absolutely no protection whatsoever.
Fallout is using even earlier and even more nonsense science then that. Where the radiation pretty much never dissipates (sort of, there are hints that it has been slowly decreasing for years).
Post by: Majestic7 on October 05, 2015, 01:54:05 pm
Post by: Neonivek on October 05, 2015, 01:56:25 pm
Is it only radiation in Fallout though? Wasn't there airborne strain of FEV that has pretty much infected everyone by now, leading into increased radiation tolerance but as well..umm..other stuff like ghouls and insane raiders?
Naw Ghouls were created through basically BS science where the radiation caused a mutation that makes their cells divide perfectly or something along those lines. Though I should check on that.
Super Mutants were created by the FEV virus.
As for everyone being infected with it currently... maybe... I'd have to look it up, it certainly sounds possible. Though Fallout 1 mostly dealt with the Virus and Fallout 3 invented some magical way for there to be even more Super mutants without any brains.
Post by: Shadowlord on October 05, 2015, 02:14:41 pm
Post by: BurnedToast on October 05, 2015, 02:21:06 pm
If you want to mention bad writing, anyone remember the original Fallout 3 ending? There is an irradiated chamber with a lever to pull. The radiation is lethal. If you ask your super mutant/ghoul/robot combination to do it, he says "nope, doing it is your DESTINY". So although the character has a companion who is immune to the radiation, he must go there and die.
I mean, what the fuck? That is the worst writing I have ever seen in a computer game and that takes some doing. They fixed this later, but it showed how crappy Bethes writers are. Some of the side quests in original Fallout3 were really nice - or more like things you could just find that were not part of any quest - but the main story was written by drunk monkeys.
So I expect Fallout 4 to have a completely corny and shitty main story, but hey, it can still be an entertaining game, as long as the ending isn't complete bullshit.
IIRC you actually could send that brotherhood of steel woman in there instead of you (and get a downer ending that called you a coward), so it was not 100% YOU MUST DIE TO SAVE THE WORLD NO EXCEPTIONS...
But yeah. Some people say they made the ending terrible on purpose so they could sell the real ending as DLC, and I'm not completely convinced that's not true.
Post by: Neonivek on October 05, 2015, 02:28:29 pm
before the patch? YOU had to go in there and die no matter what. Though the canonical ending is that you went inside...
Post by: PTTG?? on October 05, 2015, 02:43:19 pm
Post by: Virtz on October 05, 2015, 03:00:44 pm
It was actually kinda disputed in the Fallout Bible (written by Black Isle staff) and was kinda supported by Harold explicitly being the result of FEV (even in FO1). Might've been something about it in FO2 as well, but I can't remember. Later it was reaffirmed by the writer of the Fallout Bible and the original creator of Fallout 1 that it was just 50s pop-science radiation after all.Is it only radiation in Fallout though? Wasn't there airborne strain of FEV that has pretty much infected everyone by now, leading into increased radiation tolerance but as well..umm..other stuff like ghouls and insane raiders?
Naw Ghouls were created through basically BS science where the radiation caused a mutation that makes their cells divide perfectly or something along those lines. Though I should check on that.
Super Mutants were created by the FEV virus.
As for everyone being infected with it currently... maybe... I'd have to look it up, it certainly sounds possible. Though Fallout 1 mostly dealt with the Virus and Fallout 3 invented some magical way for there to be even more Super mutants without any brains.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 05, 2015, 03:03:46 pm
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 05, 2015, 06:03:33 pm
Also PTW.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on October 05, 2015, 06:43:04 pm
No, you could send Sarah Lyons in pre-patch. You just died anyway due to sudden radiation outburst or something, I don't fully recall.
Also PTW.
Actually you passed out due to..something, she dies and the game calls you an utter coward.
But you live.
Post by: SeriousConcentrate on October 05, 2015, 07:00:23 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on October 05, 2015, 07:17:41 pm
Don't worry guys, just drink lots of vodka.Blowout soon...
Post by: Neonivek on October 05, 2015, 10:51:49 pm
It was actually kinda disputed in the Fallout Bible (written by Black Isle staff) and was kinda supported by Harold explicitly being the result of FEV (even in FO1). Might've been something about it in FO2 as well, but I can't remember. Later it was reaffirmed by the writer of the Fallout Bible and the original creator of Fallout 1 that it was just 50s pop-science radiation after all.
Which storywise I kind of support. It can kind of get lazy for a setting to always default to the same McGuffin over and over again.
Like Resident Evil and its bajillion viruses... Except WORSE because this is a setting with unlimited possibilities.
Post by: Virtz on October 06, 2015, 12:41:07 am
That and having it be based on FEV would require everywhere besides areas around The Glow to have a flimsy excuse as to how the FEV got airborne there (else no mutated creatures).It was actually kinda disputed in the Fallout Bible (written by Black Isle staff) and was kinda supported by Harold explicitly being the result of FEV (even in FO1). Might've been something about it in FO2 as well, but I can't remember. Later it was reaffirmed by the writer of the Fallout Bible and the original creator of Fallout 1 that it was just 50s pop-science radiation after all.
Which storywise I kind of support. It can kind of get lazy for a setting to always default to the same McGuffin over and over again.
Like Resident Evil and its bajillion viruses... Except WORSE because this is a setting with unlimited possibilities.
It was bad enough when they made up excuses for the FEV even being in the East.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 06, 2015, 12:57:30 am
Have you not seen Contact
It's common practice for corporations or the government to do things on both coasts, in case something happens to one of them
But as far as I recall you're right, I got the strong impression that ghouls were just "Sometimes people survived the nukes". And as someone said, got an extremely beneficial mutation with a charisma issue
Post by: Mech#4 on October 06, 2015, 02:00:11 am
Most mutant creatures like rad scorpions, Cazadors, giant flies and so forth were created by radiation while Deathclaws were through genetic manipulation.
The smarter Super Mutants brought FEV to the east coast to create more super mutants like the Master wanted, yes? Though they didn't realise that people with low radiation levels are needed for high intelligence, hence all the "dumb dumbs" created from random wastelanders.
I like the idea. It's not normal radiation, it's the type you see in B movies which can create things like The Hulk, The Melting Man, and any number of other people who gained abilities through exposure to "deadly rays".
Post by: Rolan7 on October 06, 2015, 02:07:20 am
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Forced_Evolutionary_Virus#The_East_Coast_and_FEV
Post by: Virtz on October 06, 2015, 02:29:05 am
Why is it at all weird that there was a separate FEV facility in the eastCause why move it all the way to the East (to Washington D.C. at that) where there's more prominent targets there than a desert in the West?
Plus FEV research was already moved from West Tek to Mariposa. Adding a thus-far undocumented copy-transfer from all the way West to a vault in the East is just lazy "oh and also this" writing.
Post by: Shadowlord on October 06, 2015, 02:38:38 am
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on October 06, 2015, 06:23:43 am
I think from my readings; Ghouls were created by high radiation, mutants by FEV, Harold by FEV (unique case).
Most mutant creatures like rad scorpions, Cazadors, giant flies and so forth were created by radiation while Deathclaws were through genetic manipulation.
Almost on the money, Cazadors were created through genetic manipulation by the Big M.T Scientist Dr. Borous along with the Night Stalker, Deathclaws were made through FEV and Genetic manipulation
Post by: Sergius on October 06, 2015, 09:16:07 am
Post by: Egan_BW on October 06, 2015, 09:39:18 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 06, 2015, 09:49:48 am
Post by: miauw62 on October 06, 2015, 10:02:44 am
Post by: scriver on October 06, 2015, 10:06:35 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 06, 2015, 10:09:14 am
I still sort of want a Deathclaw plushie, though.Me too. :3
Post by: miauw62 on October 07, 2015, 09:18:31 am
This one seems to be lacking in funny quotes for the thread title, sadly.
Post by: notquitethere on October 07, 2015, 10:42:39 am
Post by: PTTG?? on October 07, 2015, 10:42:46 am
Post by: sambojin on October 07, 2015, 11:18:36 am
Post by: Kaje on October 07, 2015, 11:19:29 am
Did the video just imply there was going to be vehicles?
There's going to be a usable Vertibird at the very least, which was announced aaaaaaaaaaaaaaages ago.
Post by: sambojin on October 07, 2015, 11:20:26 am
Post by: Rolan7 on October 07, 2015, 11:21:31 am
Just joking around, I'm actually getting a bit hyped for this despite myself...
Post by: Krevsin on October 07, 2015, 11:33:49 am
I still sort of want a Deathclaw plushie, though.Like this?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Teneb on October 07, 2015, 11:46:33 am
Post by: Fniff on October 07, 2015, 11:49:04 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 07, 2015, 11:55:23 am
Post by: miauw62 on October 07, 2015, 12:41:53 pm
Post by: PTTG?? on October 07, 2015, 01:40:44 pm
I'm actually looking forward to minmaxing my character for base-building. Say he was a mechanic or something.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on October 07, 2015, 02:40:57 pm
I still sort of want a Deathclaw plushie, though.Who do I have to pay/fuck/kill for this to be a thing I can buy?
Post by: Egan_BW on October 14, 2015, 07:08:25 pm
Post by: Teneb on October 14, 2015, 07:36:09 pm
Post by: notquitethere on October 14, 2015, 07:40:39 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on October 14, 2015, 11:08:19 pm
realizing your family is dead and you're 200 years late for dinner almost makes you wish for a nuclear wintergod damn it
Post by: Vendayn on October 15, 2015, 12:13:26 am
Hopefully I can get Fallout 4 eventually lol. It looks great...and hey maybe I'll get it when all the DLC stuff is out lol. Cause even if we end up without a home (we are in an apartment), I still want to play games :P
Post by: scriver on October 15, 2015, 08:12:16 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 15, 2015, 08:21:40 am
Watch yourself, profligate.realizing your family is dead and you're 200 years late for dinner almost makes you wish for a nuclear wintergod damn it
Post by: miauw62 on October 15, 2015, 10:03:04 am
Post by: PTTG?? on October 15, 2015, 10:29:29 am
Post by: Fniff on October 15, 2015, 11:18:04 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 15, 2015, 11:59:06 am
Post by: Teneb on October 15, 2015, 12:13:19 pm
I should not this is not one of the SPECIAL ones.
Nothing truly important in it other than just building hype.
Post by: PTTG?? on October 15, 2015, 01:26:12 pm
Post by: Knave on October 15, 2015, 01:57:55 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on October 15, 2015, 04:19:54 pm
Post by: Kot on October 15, 2015, 04:44:29 pm
Think Watch Dogs.
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 15, 2015, 04:44:40 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on October 15, 2015, 06:14:33 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 15, 2015, 06:16:24 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on October 15, 2015, 06:32:24 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 15, 2015, 06:40:52 pm
Post by: umiman on October 15, 2015, 06:53:13 pm
Man, why don't we have any live-action Games?We do. They mostly suck.
Post by: PTTG?? on October 15, 2015, 07:36:36 pm
Also the community for Reality is full of trolls and assholes.
And the admin team sucks.
The servers have good uptime, though...
Post by: Gabeux on October 15, 2015, 10:41:57 pm
- That moment when your cousing visits you and asks you to play Fallout 3.
- You skip the intro and teach him the game as he goes because current 10-14 year olds are all about explosions and ADHD.
- He finds two generic Hunters and you tell him the hunters have armor and good guns, and all he has is a baseball bat. Wink wink.
- He doesn't get the hint, so you tell him to murder both of them - starting by killing the best equipped one with sneak and VATS headshot, then steal the guys' stuff and murder his friend with his own gun.
- Heads explode, Karma is gained, I don't know why.
- Hunters were carrying human meat - they were cannibals. Don't remember that encounter.
- Cousin is excited because he exploded heads, but is extremely confused because he also got excited he was going to be evil but ended up killing cannibals and gaining karma instead.
- You remember he's 11 years old and his mother probably shouldn't hear of his achievements on the wasteland.
- Family is having coffee, he tells he looks forward to blowing up more heads, killing more cannibals, and throwing more bodies down cliffs in Fallout 4.
- You pretend he's talking unrelated stuff to himself like nerdy kids usually do.
- Your family is too confused to connect what he says to you.
Post by: Culise on October 16, 2015, 12:29:20 am
Hey, FMV and interactive movies were hilarious, and sometimes even entertaining. :PMan, why don't we have any live-action Games?We do. They mostly suck.
Actually, in seriousness, I do still have fond memories of Star Trek: Borg, if only I could get it working on a modern computer.
Post by: Neonivek on October 16, 2015, 02:47:50 am
Then again FMV games fell out of style more because they are ridiculously expensive...
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on October 16, 2015, 03:16:08 am
I do recall one game that's FMV that came out quite recently.Hey, FMV and interactive movies were hilarious, and sometimes even entertaining. :PMan, why don't we have any live-action Games?We do. They mostly suck.
Actually, in seriousness, I do still have fond memories of Star Trek: Borg, if only I could get it working on a modern computer.
Contradiction, I think it was called.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 16, 2015, 04:30:31 am
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on October 16, 2015, 10:51:12 am
Man, the Tiberian Sun cutscene nostalgia.
No. Stop it. NOD is dead. They will stay dead. Silence. The the Scrin shall inherit the earth.
Post by: TempAcc on October 16, 2015, 10:54:47 am
Modern day FMVs aren't nearly as hilarious or corny, though. The only modern FMV thing I can remember off the top of my head was an oddball kickstarter "fighting" game about pre recorded scenes of two really goofy looking keys doing pseudo martial arts moves at eachother with quick time events. Basically, just a fancy scene selector.
Post by: Krevsin on October 16, 2015, 11:03:26 am
Man, the Tiberian Sun cutscene nostalgia.all of the C&C FMV cutscenes are objectivelly the best thing ever. Especially Red Alert.
Even RA3.
Post by: Teneb on October 16, 2015, 12:18:06 pm
Post by: Gabeux on October 17, 2015, 02:10:25 am
My vertibird will be playing that nonstop as I go on a murder spree through the wasteland.
Post by: scriver on October 17, 2015, 03:08:22 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on October 17, 2015, 03:35:49 am
My vertibird will only play big band jazz versions of Flight of the Valkyrie.Yes? YES?
Post by: Knave on October 17, 2015, 09:17:10 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sib7MNIPuYw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sib7MNIPuYw)
Actually I think this might fit the bill:
http://www.spaceagepop.com/music/a011.mp3 (http://www.spaceagepop.com/music/a011.mp3)
Post by: JimboM12 on October 18, 2015, 05:21:08 pm
God damn it. This music is too good. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FFtht9k87k)
My vertibird will be playing that nonstop as I go on a murder spree through the wasteland.
The Wanderer, niceeeeeee. We have now, the Vault Dweller (1), the Chosen One (2), the Lone Wanderer (3) and the Courier (New Vegas). Now we got the Vault Wanderer. It's.....perfect. And he/she even has a real life theme song.
This song also makes me want to be a good karma wanderer who builds a harem of attractive females to help him make his fort. #malegamers
Forgot to add obligatory Tunnel Snakes joke since we're on the 50's. We will all wear leather jackets and call ourselves the Junk Squirrels.
Post by: Fniff on October 18, 2015, 06:47:33 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 18, 2015, 06:50:24 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on October 18, 2015, 07:11:08 pm
Post by: JimboM12 on October 18, 2015, 08:22:00 pm
I've seen the F4 player character being referred to as the Sole Survivor or the Survivor, more than the Wanderer.
This works. It's just gotta be some title to refer to our characters to, like the Vault Dweller or the Dragonborn, or Shepard.
I wonder if our settlement gets to be referred to as being its own faction, if so, let's all begin brainstorming good names.
I want to be the Vault Dwellers, though no vaults other than the starting one will be involved.
Post by: crazyabe on October 18, 2015, 08:23:02 pm
Post by: Knave on October 18, 2015, 09:19:12 pm
Post by: BFEL on October 18, 2015, 10:33:59 pm
This works. It's just gotta be some title to refer to our characters to
THE PIMPMASTER SUPREME
or PIMPMISTRESS SUPREME for the lady version
Post by: Vendayn on October 19, 2015, 12:51:22 am
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.883639-Valve-Hasnt-Given-up-on-Paid-Mods?page=1
As for Bethesda saying "we're not planning AT THIS TIME"...that is just typical corporate lingo for "but later we will"
Post by: Rolan7 on October 19, 2015, 07:57:13 am
While your post certainly belonged here, we also have a dedicated thread for the paid mods issue in case people want to use it:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=150273.765
Post by: scriver on October 19, 2015, 10:13:13 am
I've seen the F4 player character being referred to as the Sole Survivor or the Survivor, more than the Wanderer.
I know they got the Mr. Handy robot to record thousands of names. I wonder if any of the other voice actors will have the same level of detail.
Combining both these tangents..:
(http://cs629320.vk.me/v629320664/bbdc/9-SuMDA99JE.jpg)
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on October 19, 2015, 02:36:07 pm
Post by: Neonivek on October 19, 2015, 04:16:31 pm
The Courier is still my favorite name for a protagonist. Just has this lovely ring to it.
The first one was pretty epic too... (Vault Dweller)
You know... back when the vaults were even slightly special.
Now they are basically tourist attractions... and by basically I mean yes they are.
Post by: Graknorke on October 19, 2015, 05:11:40 pm
Post by: Neonivek on October 19, 2015, 05:59:07 pm
So by basically you actually meant literally? Since there is actually a vault in NV that is a tourist attraction.
Yes, that is the joke.
Post by: XhAPPYSLApX on October 19, 2015, 11:56:57 pm
Post by: Neonivek on October 20, 2015, 12:18:13 am
Sorry to interject, and sorry if this has already been said before. But I really do not get the people saying it looks horrible, I know it's their opinion, and more power to them and all that, but man, it's actually pretty damn good looking, not great or excellent, but good for a game where you can interact with almost every object in the world.
You mean visually or in terms of content?
Because visually the game looks like garbage that has been glued onto other garbage... intentionally.
Gameplay wise... My personal opinion is that people are getting their hopes high for what has, to this point, been small features blown up to look like huge ones.
Post by: XhAPPYSLApX on October 20, 2015, 12:37:02 am
Sorry to interject, and sorry if this has already been said before. But I really do not get the people saying it looks horrible, I know it's their opinion, and more power to them and all that, but man, it's actually pretty damn good looking, not great or excellent, but good for a game where you can interact with almost every object in the world.
You mean visually or in terms of content?
Because visually the game looks like garbage that has been glued onto other garbage... intentionally.
Gameplay wise... My personal opinion is that people are getting their hopes high for what has, to this point, been small features blown up to look like huge ones.
And that's your opinion, I think it'll be great, but it really is my own fault if it really does suck, but alas, I am too much of an utter fanboy of Bethesda to think of that right now. And yes, in my eyes, it visually and gameplay wise looks really great in my own personal opinion.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 20, 2015, 12:39:21 am
Which I think is p cool, but I liked Fallout 3 (:
Post by: XhAPPYSLApX on October 20, 2015, 12:46:56 am
I *think* Neonivek is saying that there's a junkyard aesthetic. That the landscapes are full of junk, literally.
Which I think is p cool, but I liked Fallout 3 (:
I love Fallout 3, but NV was a bit better. Mostly because they got rid of the sickly green tint on everything :D
Post by: Neonivek on October 20, 2015, 12:48:20 am
I *think* Neonivek is saying that there's a junkyard aesthetic. That the landscapes are full of junk, literally.
Which I think is p cool, but I liked Fallout 3 (:
Yeah dead on.
Post by: XhAPPYSLApX on October 20, 2015, 12:56:03 am
P.S For the record, I love the first two Fallouts just as much as the others :D
I *think* Neonivek is saying that there's a junkyard aesthetic. That the landscapes are full of junk, literally.
Which I think is p cool, but I liked Fallout 3 (:
Yeah dead on.
Yeah, it does seem to have a lot of junkyards, doesn't it? Probably for the crafting I'm guessing, and also because Bethesda likes putting random junk in their games.
Post by: Neonivek on October 20, 2015, 12:58:57 am
Post by: Rolan7 on October 20, 2015, 01:01:05 am
Also it's an urban area devastated by bombs, like the capital wasteland was. I'm really excited about that actually. New Vegas was a great game but my favorite part of the series is nasty blasted ruins. New Vegas was too developed for my liking. Maybe I'll enjoy building something out of the rubble myself though.
... I also loved the original RPG elements, like skills/traits/perks/SPECIAL, but eh... mods.
Post by: Neonivek on October 20, 2015, 01:04:40 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: XhAPPYSLApX on October 20, 2015, 01:13:06 am
That and it is a post apoc setting where most things are made of repurposed junk
True, very true.
ninja'd
Also it's an urban area devastated by bombs, like the capital wasteland was. I'm really excited about that actually. New Vegas was a great game but my favorite part of the series is nasty blasted ruins. New Vegas was too developed for my liking. Maybe I'll enjoy building something out of the rubble myself though.
... I also loved the original RPG elements, like skills/traits/perks/SPECIAL, but eh... mods.
Hopefully they will be able to mod that kind of stuff into the game, but seeing the kind of things that Skyrim was capable of on a last gen engine. It probably won't be a problem.
Edit: Although technically this is a last gen next gen engine, since they are using the same one, but upgraded.
Post by: scriver on October 20, 2015, 05:51:39 am
However. It also has lots of little things that are very "bethesdian" in that they've been in almost all their games since-and-including Morrowind. They've gotten better for each game but they're still there - people still walk like they're stuck on a stick bound to a rail or something, for example. And that they just upgraded the looks without dealing with these... I'm not sure what the word I'm looking for is... These little annoying things that's been with them for so long, that's a bit grating.
ninja'd
Also it's an urban area devastated by bombs, like the capital wasteland was. I'm really excited about that actually. New Vegas was a great game but my favorite part of the series is nasty blasted ruins. New Vegas was too developed for my liking. Maybe I'll enjoy building something out of the rubble myself though.
But the Capital Wasteland looked nothing like an area devastated by bombs. At least not to me.
One of my favorite changes in 4 is actually the fact that they got rid of the skills system, because while it makes a LOT of sense in a turn based game, it doesn't so much in an action RPG, again, impo.
I'm not sure what you mean. I'd agree that it fits a highly action/shooter focused RPG better, but I have no idea why lockpicking or science or repair etc would work better in a turn based game than a realtime one.
Post by: Krevsin on October 20, 2015, 07:16:13 am
I do have a question but it is a bit vitriolic... but since this isn't really a problem that will EVER pop up again I'll put it in spoilers. So people who hate criticism can skip it.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Graknorke on October 20, 2015, 11:12:22 am
Post by: XhAPPYSLApX on October 20, 2015, 12:30:49 pm
One of my favorite changes in 4 is actually the fact that they got rid of the skills system, because while it makes a LOT of sense in a turn based game, it doesn't so much in an action RPG, again, impo.
I'm not sure what you mean. I'd agree that it fits a highly action/shooter focused RPG better, but I have no idea why lockpicking or science or repair etc would work better in a turn based game than a realtime one.
It's how those skills worked in the other games, it made less sense in a realtime game to have a required skill level to hack or pick something, whereas in the older ones, it made a bit more sense, because it was like a pen and paper rpg. Hope I clarified it a bit :D
Post by: Damiac on October 20, 2015, 03:30:16 pm
I liked FO3 and NV, but the hacking was one of the absolute worst parts of the game... and it gave you XP, so it gave you XP for engaging in a tedious, unfun activity.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 20, 2015, 03:34:18 pm
I'd hesitate to call Fallout 4 an action RPG. From what they've said about the changes to VATS and skills and whatever I'd say it's closer to an action-adventure game with RPG elements added.What, pray tell, is your criteria for "RPG"?
Post by: Graknorke on October 20, 2015, 03:44:45 pm
In general it'd be that outcomes of individual events were determined more by character skill than player skill.I'd hesitate to call Fallout 4 an action RPG. From what they've said about the changes to VATS and skills and whatever I'd say it's closer to an action-adventure game with RPG elements added.What, pray tell, is your criteria for "RPG"?
Post by: GiglameshDespair on October 20, 2015, 03:59:20 pm
I hope they totally ditch the HORRIBLE hacking minigame. Either come up with a fun minigame, or just make hacking happen automatically. And definitely DON'T allow me to fail, locking me out, but also allow me to just cancel out of the interface and try again.You can cancel out and go back in, as long as you haven't been locked out completely. And there's a perk that stops you being locked out altogether.
I liked FO3 and NV, but the hacking was one of the absolute worst parts of the game... and it gave you XP, so it gave you XP for engaging in a tedious, unfun activity.
As a minigame, it's alright. You just have to use a little brainpower - not even all that much - and work it out.
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 20, 2015, 04:03:27 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on October 20, 2015, 04:13:56 pm
Post by: Gabeux on October 20, 2015, 04:21:21 pm
Probably because I never had the patience to learn it. I did learn it recently (as in, all the tips'n'tricks to do it properly, like the secret "reset attempts" code-blocks), but I still think bruteforcing it is just as effective if you can't be bothered.
I don't mind lockpicking in Fallout or Skyrim. But can you imagine if all games had the same lockpicking mechanic as Oblivion had? Holy shit.
Open console, target object, type "unlock" to keep your sanity.
Still, I did play the whole of Oblivion and never not-opened something...I think I should get to know if I have gaming OCD.
Post by: Teneb on October 20, 2015, 04:42:22 pm
Back when FO3 launched I noticed how quick saving / quick loading and redoing the hacking puzzle until I got it right (aka Bruteforce) usually took the same (and even less) time than figuring the puzzle out the right way.I prefer the Oblivion lockpicking to Fallout or Skyrim's, mostly due to the fact that I can actually see what I am doing. In Skyrim/Fallout you had to mostly guess and hope your pick wouldn't break, to the point where I had to download a mod that added chalk lines around the lock so I could see where I was when the pick broke (as the animation of the lock and such made it hard to tell). I also like Oblivion style of casting magic better, as you did not have to swap out of your weapon, shield or whatever in order to cast a simple spell. (Curse that game's leveling system though, seriously)
Probably because I never had the patience to learn it. I did learn it recently (as in, all the tips'n'tricks to do it properly, like the secret "reset attempts" code-blocks), but I still think bruteforcing it is just as effective if you can't be bothered.
I don't mind lockpicking in Fallout or Skyrim. But can you imagine if all games had the same lockpicking mechanic as Oblivion had? Holy shit.
Open console, target object, type "unlock" to keep your sanity.
Still, I did play the whole of Oblivion and never not-opened something...I think I should get to know if I have gaming OCD.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 20, 2015, 07:02:41 pm
And? It bothers you that outcomes are being largely derived from SPECIAL scores and perks because... they aren't called "skills", despite functioning more or less in the same way? The only real player-skill-based element of the new Fallout games has been the gunplay. That looks to still be the case, and it's been heavily weighted by related skills and scores since FO3, with markedly decreased performance for characters with low totals in relevant skills and scores. Does it really matter that your ability to pick a lock is derived from Perception and perks rather than Lockpick? That your accuracy with guns is derived from Agility and your related perks rather than Guns?In general it'd be that outcomes of individual events were determined more by character skill than player skill.I'd hesitate to call Fallout 4 an action RPG. From what they've said about the changes to VATS and skills and whatever I'd say it's closer to an action-adventure game with RPG elements added.What, pray tell, is your criteria for "RPG"?
About the only change I can think of that actually affects this is the shift of VATS from "lol pause to win" to aim-assisted slow motion, and that only relies on player skill if you're disabled, elderly, or for whatever other reason can't react quickly enough to click things in bullettime.
Post by: Graknorke on October 20, 2015, 07:26:58 pm
And unless a video's been released and I haven't seen it, we don't actually know how slow VATS will be. And besides that it's going from (not at all pause to win, unless you're only taking Fallout 3) a system based around the use of character skills and applying them most effectively, to a FPS but slower.
Post by: Yoink on October 20, 2015, 07:29:11 pm
Sure it was frustrating (and kinda silly) to fail the minigame and end up locked out of some flimsy shack door, but it wasn't too hard to avoid if you were careful.
Also, RPG? A game where you play the role of your character?
I don't think you'll find any "trve RPGs" outside of text-based and/or tabletop games. :P
Post by: Flying Dice on October 20, 2015, 07:39:06 pm
It might just be the name "perks", but it implies to me that you'll be able to do everything by default and the perks will just make you better at it, as opposed to actually needing some skill to be competent.I sincerely doubt that they're removing the arbitrary boundaries on things like lockpicking and hacking, those were far too useful as ways to gate content. I expect that it'll be something in the vein of a five-perk run (* = you can now pick Easy locks; ** = you can now pick Medium locks; *** = you can now pick Hard locks; &c.). That, or directly tied to ability scores (Perception's 6? Easy locks are yours! 7? So are Medium! &c.)
And unless a video's been released and I haven't seen it, we don't actually know how slow VATS will be. And besides that it's going from (not at all pause to win, unless you're only taking Fallout 3) a system based around the use of character skills and applying them most effectively, to a FPS but slower.
We did see footage of VATS in FO4. At E3. (https://youtu.be/1LqQTgrSPC4?t=51) It's pretty hard to not know how slow it'll be when we got a good twenty seconds of VATS in gameplay.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 20, 2015, 08:52:54 pm
And? It bothers you that outcomes are being largely derived from SPECIAL scores and perks because... they aren't called "skills", despite functioning more or less in the same way? The only real player-skill-based element of the new Fallout games has been the gunplay. That looks to still be the case, and it's been heavily weighted by related skills and scores since FO3, with markedly decreased performance for characters with low totals in relevant skills and scores. Does it really matter that your ability to pick a lock is derived from Perception and perks rather than Lockpick? That your accuracy with guns is derived from Agility and your related perks rather than Guns?In general it'd be that outcomes of individual events were determined more by character skill than player skill.I'd hesitate to call Fallout 4 an action RPG. From what they've said about the changes to VATS and skills and whatever I'd say it's closer to an action-adventure game with RPG elements added.What, pray tell, is your criteria for "RPG"?
About the only change I can think of that actually affects this is the shift of VATS from "lol pause to win" to aim-assisted slow motion, and that only relies on player skill if you're disabled, elderly, or for whatever other reason can't react quickly enough to click things in bullettime.
I actually pretty much agree with this, I'm sure the new stat system will be nice. I've mainly been bemoaning it due to nostalgia I guess. I'd enjoy playing the Fallout tabletop game sometime.
I bristled a bit at calling VATS "lol pause to win" though, that's nonsense :P In New Vegas it's a couple of measly bonus hits, mostly useful at close range. In FO3 it was... pretty much the main combat system. If you were leveled and specced appropriately, you could win the combat, because that's how stat-based RPGs work. It was practically real-time-with-pausing, wonderfully ported to 3D. I admit I missed that in New Vegas. Maybe FO4 won't be another precision shooter though, hard to say! VATS being slow instead of frozen doesn't really say much about how deadly it'll be.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 20, 2015, 09:35:49 pm
Despite it being clunky and not very well done, I liked how the gunplay worked, mixing the effects of your stats with your own ability to aim and react. FO4's VATS looks to be the best of both worlds, given that it's basically the bullettime you got with Project Nevada with the VATS overlay on top and the crit mechanic.
Post by: Knave on October 21, 2015, 11:35:12 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG0DkwNZxME (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG0DkwNZxME)
Post by: scriver on October 21, 2015, 04:48:06 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on October 21, 2015, 07:44:03 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on October 21, 2015, 07:56:18 pm
Post by: Ultimuh on October 22, 2015, 03:04:04 am
Cough hoping against hope we get card games again coughMost likely they have been neglected in favor of pip-boy game cartridges.
but we never know until the game is out.
Post by: miauw62 on October 22, 2015, 10:03:01 am
Post by: JimboM12 on October 22, 2015, 02:09:57 pm
I rewatched the parts about customization while drinking an energy drink and began to wonder if that was indicative of regular armor customization.
This began a very weird thought process; I want to make Butch DeLoria's vision come true. I will make the baddest greaser gang the wastelands have ever seen. But instead of motorcycles, we customize and use power armor. Which brought up, if I could customize power armor, why not stitch some logos on leather jackets and create TEAM ELVIS GURREN. If I could upload an image to use as a logo (or mod into the game), I would make our gang logo a headshot of Elvis with Kamina glasses. There can be no more manliness then fucking Elvis Kamina. YOUR POMPADOUR IS THE POMPADOUR THAT WILL PIERCE THE WASTELAND.
tl;dr this game's making me go fucking insane and its not even out yet.
P.S. If anyone knows a good MMO where you can upload custom guild/clan logos, please pm me. TEAM ELVIS GURREN needs to be a thing.
Post by: scriver on October 22, 2015, 02:11:04 pm
Post by: Aseaheru on October 22, 2015, 02:39:27 pm
P.S. If anyone knows a good MMO where you can upload custom guild/clan logos, please pm me. TEAM ELVIS GURREN needs to be a thing.Dunno if this counts, but From the Depths has flags that you can customize, adn all the AI minion combat bots have a flag...
Also, I was gonna talk about powerarmor with built in motorcycles... Sort of (but not really) like Tron...
Post by: miauw62 on October 22, 2015, 02:59:17 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on October 22, 2015, 06:12:59 pm
GIF of a deathclaw dodging gunfire
Post by: Neonivek on October 22, 2015, 06:14:28 pm
Post by: Chiefwaffles on October 22, 2015, 06:23:56 pm
Post by: Neonivek on October 22, 2015, 06:24:51 pm
So he's dodging then.
Well no.
He is making himself a more difficult target, he isn't dodging them.
Post by: Chiefwaffles on October 22, 2015, 06:25:42 pm
Post by: Neonivek on October 22, 2015, 06:30:06 pm
Literally dodging.
If your not dodging the bullets nor the path of the gun... Then it isn't dodging.
But I guess if running in Serpentine counts as dodging bullets now. And you know the player is moving away from the deathclaw, so he is dodging the deathclaw.
Post by: Putnam on October 22, 2015, 07:05:37 pm
Post by: Yoink on October 22, 2015, 09:26:31 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on October 22, 2015, 09:30:32 pm
Even though it seems to be technically wrong... Still, dodging to me does suggest actually observing the objects you're dodging. Moving evasively feels different.
Post by: BFEL on October 22, 2015, 09:51:20 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 23, 2015, 09:31:54 am
So hush, Neo.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on October 23, 2015, 03:32:08 pm
Post by: WealthyRadish on October 23, 2015, 05:09:30 pm
Ducking when you see someone throw a shoe at you while you're giving a speech is a dodge. Ducking sporadically every 1-3 seconds during the speech in case someone throws a shoe at you, and then managing to avoid getting hit by a shoe fired out of a railgun by doing this, is not a dodge.
Post by: AlleeCat on October 23, 2015, 05:13:03 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on October 23, 2015, 05:51:08 pm
Post by: JimboM12 on October 24, 2015, 09:01:53 pm
Code:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
*Edit: forgot to add code.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 24, 2015, 11:26:18 pm
Post by: Sensei on October 25, 2015, 03:59:04 am
1.
to elude or evade by a sudden shift of position or by strategy
checkmate
Post by: Neonivek on October 25, 2015, 04:14:36 am
verb (used with object), dodged, dodging.
1.
to elude or evade by a sudden shift of position or by strategy
checkmate
To whome?
Post by: Culise on October 25, 2015, 11:47:53 am
verb (used with object), dodged, dodging.
1.
to elude or evade by a sudden shift of position or by strategy
checkmate
Quote
4.:3
to use evasive methods; prevaricate:
When asked a direct question, he dodges.
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 25, 2015, 03:29:06 pm
A heads up to my fellow bay12ers, GreenManGaming is doing a sale over the weekend; 22% off code. This can be used on both Fallout 4 and the Season Pass. This is good until the 26th. From all reports, GMG is pretty legit, but you won't get the steamkey until release.Hey thanks. I wasn't going to preorder but that's pretty close to a light sale's price so may as well.
Code:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
*Edit: forgot to add code.
Post by: JimboM12 on October 25, 2015, 03:35:20 pm
Post by: Teneb on October 25, 2015, 05:01:04 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 25, 2015, 05:29:44 pm
Post by: Putnam on October 25, 2015, 06:56:12 pm
rick and morty probably beats whatever they come up with anyway
Post by: Gabeux on October 25, 2015, 07:14:38 pm
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t31.0-8/12186252_759810937456567_882994841954100318_o.jpg)
*Gets inside power armor*
*Heavy Breathing*
Post by: Tilla on October 25, 2015, 09:19:05 pm
A heads up to my fellow bay12ers, GreenManGaming is doing a sale over the weekend; 22% off code. This can be used on both Fallout 4 and the Season Pass. This is good until the 26th. From all reports, GMG is pretty legit, but you won't get the steamkey until release.
Code:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
*Edit: forgot to add code.
Confirming GMG is a good vendor I've bought a few games on preorder there and while they can't always get the keys delivered pre-release you get them for great prices. Their VIP section always has good prices (Witcher 3 is $26 right now for example).
They'll also drop you a few cents for short game user reviews in your account credit although its not compatible with coupon savings :P
Post by: JimboM12 on October 25, 2015, 09:28:39 pm
Confirming GMG is a good vendor I've bought a few games on preorder there and while they can't always get the keys delivered pre-release you get them for great prices. Their VIP section always has good prices (Witcher 3 is $26 right now for example).
They'll also drop you a few cents for short game user reviews in your account credit although its not compatible with coupon savings :P
Thank you for the confidence booster, I gave GMG the benefit of the doubt because reddit gave it a green and cuz making and logging into an account is secure, and lastly it appeared instantly on my bank account as GreenManGaming.
Well, now my hype went even higher and a good feeling of security with it.
Now, I wonder about the companions. Dogmeats awesome to have back around, but I want a romanceable version of Cass around. And I want her to wear a custom leather jacket. I want customizable regular armor.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 25, 2015, 09:32:35 pm
Also... Uh... I did grab a copy.
I still have some misgivings about the direction of the mechanics... But I think they'll be answered by mods.
And I'm mostly excited about the setting, and the return of the FO3 developers. I have been avoiding the hype videos, only saw one, but I still can tell I'll want to experience this game sooner rather than later.
Edit: Shit, just finished downloading Fallout 3 at 22:30 on a Sunday.
Going to just pretend that didn't happen, I need to fix my sleep schedule for the week...
Post by: Flying Dice on October 25, 2015, 10:16:12 pm
Post by: Blargityblarg on October 26, 2015, 06:43:50 am
Post by: sprinkled chariot on October 26, 2015, 11:27:03 am
This was major improvment over fallout 3 - stab in the head from behind = HEAD EXPLODES IN GORE, BRAINS, SHIT AND BLOOD EVERYWHERE OH FUCK.
Post by: AlleeCat on October 26, 2015, 01:05:53 pm
HEAD EXPLODES IN GORE, BRAINS, SHIT AND BLOOD EVERYWHERE OH FUCK.Why would the head have shit in it? That's not where shit comes from.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 26, 2015, 01:07:57 pm
Post by: Teneb on October 26, 2015, 02:00:46 pm
Have you seen some of these raiders? They're shitheads :PWhen someone calls you a shithead, it may be possible they are not just insulting you. You should get it checked if and when you get called a shithead next. Shitheads are a serious problem and may lead to death!
Post by: Graknorke on October 26, 2015, 03:23:12 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on October 26, 2015, 04:22:39 pm
Post by: JimboM12 on October 28, 2015, 09:51:13 am
This did nothing to ease my hype.
Fallout 4: THIS HYPE TRAIN WE ON AIN'T GOT NO BRAKES.
Post by: Gabeux on October 28, 2015, 10:20:56 am
I DON'T WANT TO SET THE WORLD ON FIRE
OH WAIT I ALREADY DID NOW GIVE ME YOUR PANTS
(Huh..just remembered in my last Skyrim playthrough I murdered half a town for a pickaxe and then overwrote my save, effectively making my character a non-sensical psychopath. I wonder what awaits me in Fallout 4...)
Post by: sprinkled chariot on October 28, 2015, 10:30:06 am
(Huh..just remembered in my last Skyrim playthrough I murdered half a town for a pickaxe and then overwrote my save, effectively making my character a non-sensical psychopath. I wonder what awaits me in Fallout 4...)
You will be playing chess with ghouls.
Post by: Gabeux on October 28, 2015, 11:33:53 am
(Huh..just remembered in my last Skyrim playthrough I murdered half a town for a pickaxe and then overwrote my save, effectively making my character a non-sensical psychopath. I wonder what awaits me in Fallout 4...)
You will be playing chess with ghouls.
Considering that I couldn't contain myself and just pre-ordered it, I guess I will.
Post by: Teneb on October 28, 2015, 11:48:01 am
Post by: Rolan7 on October 28, 2015, 12:02:48 pm
Post by: TempAcc on October 28, 2015, 12:09:03 pm
Post by: AoshimaMichio on October 28, 2015, 03:16:07 pm
There's been absolutely nothing on melee except for very scarce trailer footage. I only hope it won't consist of the same old "swing at it until it dies + blocking and a few special powerattacks" that every bethesta game uses. A man can dream.
What else there's to do? Swing, block, dodge is all there's to melee. Just like shooting, point, pull trigger and hope it is enough to kill.
Post by: TempAcc on October 28, 2015, 03:27:30 pm
Hell, in the old fallout games you could knock out/do tons of damage by literally punching someone in the nuts, so there's that.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 28, 2015, 03:57:56 pm
Pretty sure that in FO3 and probably New Vegas, you can target enemy weapons in VATs. Do enough damage and they won't be able to shoot. And since arm damage hurts *your* aim, I assumed it always did so to enemies.
Though, much like the 2D games, I always aimed at the head in VATs. Because for some reason, the aim difference between a headshot and a bodyshot was generally not enough to justify aiming anywhere else.
(That's true in both the old and new games)
Post by: Flying Dice on October 28, 2015, 03:59:03 pm
Basic directional attacks would be nice.There's been absolutely nothing on melee except for very scarce trailer footage. I only hope it won't consist of the same old "swing at it until it dies + blocking and a few special powerattacks" that every bethesta game uses. A man can dream.
What else there's to do? Swing, block, dodge is all there's to melee. Just like shooting, point, pull trigger and hope it is enough to kill.
Post by: Teneb on October 28, 2015, 04:18:22 pm
Remember that there were also the power attacks in at least NV for Melee/Unarmed VATS. That and suddenly teleporting next to your target if you were close enough to target them with VATS.Basic directional attacks would be nice.There's been absolutely nothing on melee except for very scarce trailer footage. I only hope it won't consist of the same old "swing at it until it dies + blocking and a few special powerattacks" that every bethesta game uses. A man can dream.
What else there's to do? Swing, block, dodge is all there's to melee. Just like shooting, point, pull trigger and hope it is enough to kill.
Post by: pisskop on October 28, 2015, 04:19:14 pm
Post by: miauw62 on October 28, 2015, 04:25:18 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on October 28, 2015, 07:04:35 pm
Or M&B-style.
Post by: Fniff on October 28, 2015, 07:22:39 pm
Post by: Putnam on October 28, 2015, 07:52:51 pm
It was definitely very intense, but made stuff that isn't melee combat pretty worthless. Like, he's pretty intense about the realism factor, so getting smacked in the head at high velocity with a mace will kill you even if you have godmode on, no kidding.
Post by: scriver on October 29, 2015, 02:57:58 am
Something I would like to see is melee attacks with guns though. You can already make all kinds of silly stuff at the crafting stations, but why can't you duct tape a lawn mower blade to your hunting rifle for greater stabbing of mole rats after you've run out of ammo?
Post by: Damiac on October 29, 2015, 02:06:19 pm
I wouldn't be opposed to seeing some Arena or Daggerfall styel controlable attacks. Even Morrowind had 3 basic types and 5 directions.
Morrowind had the various attack types, but it also had a checkbox that made you just use the best attack. Because do you want to do a retreating stab with your spear for full damage, or do you want to do a retreating overhead attack for almost 0 damage?
I liked the idea, but in daggerfall it seemed to make no difference, and in morrowind it was even worse.
Post by: pisskop on October 29, 2015, 02:13:46 pm
It was also a designer choice to make it largely sub optimal to use other actions, in part because there was only 1 kind of physcal damage.
In daggerfall the effect is subtle but noticable if you look for it.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on October 29, 2015, 02:36:40 pm
Post by: Teneb on October 29, 2015, 03:32:05 pm
How many days 'til, now? Boy, am I getting excited. I had a moment of 'Oh no there won't be any copies left' before I remembered that I'm getting the PC version.Isn't it the tenth? So 12 days, not counting today.
Post by: Damiac on October 29, 2015, 06:05:21 pm
It was a player choice to use the best one. Im the kind of guy who unchecked it.Half the problem with morrowind's system, and a lot of game's similar systems, is that it's the same buttons to move as it is to select your attack. There's no such thing is walking backward and thrusting, because thrust is the up key and walk backward is the down key. And since players generally are limited to 2 hands it's hard to find a way to allow them to direct their attacks, without just using up all the available buttons on those two hands.
It was also a designer choice to make it largely sub optimal to use other actions, in part because there was only 1 kind of physcal damage.
In daggerfall the effect is subtle but noticable if you look for it.
Daggerfall did it with mouse movements, and I admit it's been a really long time since I played that, but as I recall it was kinda like motion controls, hard to make the guy do what you actually want him to do. Plus it was hard to tell that it made any difference, so I typically resorted to just flailing the mouse back and forth as fast as possible.
I would love to see a big open game like this put in some melee attack variety, but as it's such a small part of the game it seems doubtful you'd get anything more than an inconvenient and annoying half assed system, like in morrowind.
Post by: Putnam on October 29, 2015, 06:34:21 pm
Post by: JimboM12 on October 29, 2015, 06:57:16 pm
...I want to be the brahmin jerky king of the wastelands.
My
Post by: Ultimuh on October 29, 2015, 06:59:48 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on October 29, 2015, 07:42:44 pm
There's also stuff like different attacks having a chance of different effects. Being able to knock people down with the Super Sledge, for example, like the leg sweep in NV.Could've sworn in one trailer or E3 showing I saw a pistol-whip. So there. *pat*
Something I would like to see is melee attacks with guns though. You can already make all kinds of silly stuff at the crafting stations, but why can't you duct tape a lawn mower blade to your hunting rifle for greater stabbing of mole rats after you've run out of ammo?
Ahem.
FIX BAYONETS!
Post by: Cheedows on October 29, 2015, 07:45:36 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on October 29, 2015, 07:49:34 pm
No.
Idea. :D
Post by: DoomOnion on October 29, 2015, 08:03:50 pm
Post by: BFEL on October 29, 2015, 10:56:44 pm
That sounds like something that could result in problems...
Post by: pisskop on October 29, 2015, 10:57:25 pm
Post by: BFEL on October 29, 2015, 11:07:06 pm
Its probably gonna be (From an Xbox standpoint) Right Bumper, and pressing it will melee, and holding it will ready a 'nade.
Post by: scriver on October 30, 2015, 01:53:27 am
Post by: Flying Dice on October 30, 2015, 02:38:40 am
Post by: Metalax on October 30, 2015, 05:48:55 am
So...wait.... melee and GRENADES are the same button?
That sounds like something that could result in problems...
Nah, that's been around for years. As demonstrated by Tarvish here.
(http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u44/metalax/demo.jpg)
Post by: scriver on October 30, 2015, 06:23:58 am
I'd like to see offhand grenade-throwing with 1H weapons. Sure, the PN hotkey worked, but that basically just shot it out of your head.
I CHEW BULLETS AND SPIT EXPLOSIVES!
Post by: RoguelikeRazuka on November 02, 2015, 04:41:26 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 02, 2015, 06:47:29 am
Post by: Drakale on November 02, 2015, 10:58:02 am
The gameplay video are a bit disappointing on the graphical side, hope it look better on Pc.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 02, 2015, 11:06:56 am
Post by: DoomOnion on November 02, 2015, 11:13:00 am
In fact, aren't ALL RPG inherently like that?
I'm just a nobody, but if you'd like my advise, I'd say stop worrying about something that is completely out of your hands, and quietly wait for the game to be released.
Calling me a fanboy would work too, if that helps any.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 02, 2015, 11:14:46 am
https://bethesda.net/?utm_source=Twitter.com&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=092415-Zur&hootPostID=ed42c6b0210067c7e5652eabe8a7f275#en/events/game/fallout-4s-character-system/2015/09/24/31
And now I'm even less worried. It's still not skills, but it sounds like a fun and intricate system with a lot of replay potential. I was worried it'd be basically Borderlands' perk system... And I loved Borderlands, but that would have been lame for a RPG like Fallout.
Post by: scriver on November 02, 2015, 11:24:15 am
To be fair, it is a very dialogue heavy game with about 111,000 lines recorded.
Yeah, too bad 70% of those are either "I work for Benethor, at the general goods store" or "I used to be an adventurer like you" recorded in the voice of every single guard actor.
In fact, aren't ALL RPG inherently like that?
No, only the forgetable ones.
Post by: DoomOnion on November 02, 2015, 11:31:30 am
Edit: Without the passive-aggressiveness and with a bit more seriousness, I'd like to add something.
Quote from: Anton Ego, from Ratatouille
In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so.
This is a bit off topic, but I found it a bit tragic that people judge a game solely based on their idea of what the IP/title should be like, as opposed to what the devs themselves envisioned it. If fallout turned out to be borderland-like loot hoarding game, then fine. So be it. Hey, it might actually be better that way; it might be really fleshed out and well pulled off that it makes borderlands IP look like garbage. What do we actually know for sure?
Well, I know for sure that past all that 'videogame is an art' crap and 'you ruined my franchise I'm boycotting Bethesda' crap, video games, more or less, are directed and produced by a group of people who are getting paid for what they do, in other words, by professionals. They have a solid idea of what they are doing, and they are managed by a project leader who has a clear vision of what his team's project should aim for. Well if they all perfectly know what they are doing, why do we get shitty games, DoomOnion?, you may ask.
Games fail when the said vision is very far from contemporary game designs, or the team lacks budget, gets rushed by the publisher, people quitting their job, technical issues, personal issues, and pretty much any number of things that can hinder a team to show their fullest potential. This can happen to any game. In fact, even as we speak right now, fallout 4 might be ridden with dozens and dozens of unaccounted game-breaking bugs that make the game impossible to play. I think it would be fair to harshly critique any game that fails to deliver its proposed gameplay because of incompetency in this sense, however, harsh critique simply because its direction is not 'up your alley' does no justice. If you don't like it, don't buy it. That's how consumer-producer relationship should work, is it not? Furthermore, there is one more thing you need to take into account.
Creating something in and of itself is taking a huge risk. On top of that, there is an ungodly amount of expenditure for producing it, and considering there's always a chance of failure in creating something, what the game devs have to go through every time they want to make a game is pretty much a leap of faith. Now, let's put this in perspective. You are in charge of developing a game, and your career depends on it. You've been making this for 7 years. You spent astronomical amount of money into making this happen. Some random guy on the internet says it's 'forgettable' or 'worrisome' even when it's not released. I'd say you'll think that those statements do no justice to your project.
To conclude and get back to the topic, I am almost certain that a veteran producer like Todd didn't spend all the budget on recording "I work for Benethor" in 111,000 different manners, that would be just stupid. We don't know anything for certain other than the comprehensive perk chart revealed through recent leaks, and I believe it does justice to the developers to patiently wait until we get the final product, as opposed to propagating any form of skewed viewpoints (whether positive or negative).
Again, I'm nobody. This is just some guy on the internet rambling nonsense trying to make a point, or just a Fallout 4 fanboy yelling TODD PLEASE HAVE MY BABY, depending on your perspective.
Post by: Sergius on November 02, 2015, 12:03:45 pm
For example, Sneak is now a perk. But also works as a skill, so you get better at it the more ranks. But also, each rank gives you Light Step, Silent Running and so on, rather than being separate perks. I assume Gun Nut is both the "guns" skill AND what you need to modify guns depending on how high your rank.
And magazines are their own Perk now, it seems.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 02, 2015, 12:16:46 pm
In fact, even as we speak right now, fallout 4 might be ridden with dozens and dozens of unaccounted game-breaking bugs that make the game impossible to play.
To be fair, it's a Bethesda game, there's no "might be" about it.
That said, the whining isn't about that. It's about people making largely baseless assumptions regarding what the game will be like and spiraling out from there. If you're contributing to that, folks: Remember the people crying about supposedly only being able to play a male character because only the male voice was showcased at the demo? You're just like them, no matter how you dress it up.
Quote
Fallout 4 has no level cap, and we’ve balanced the game to keep the content and challenge going for higher levels.With luck this will circumvent older issues and dodge the problem of a wasteland full of supermutie masters and albino radscorpions.
I also like how they're making perks more about specialization than raw power, especially because it might mean less of the TES sort of master-of-everything characters.
The magazine perks are fucking amazing, it'll finally feel cool and meaningful to find a skillbook in FO.
Post by: motorbitch on November 02, 2015, 12:38:42 pm
afaik were far from anything that can pass the turing test, so intelligent conversations with npc bystanders may be a few years off.
Quote
it also could lead to a wasteland that feels all the same all the time, no matter if you level up or not.QuoteFallout 4 has no level cap, and we’ve balanced the game to keep the content and challenge going for higher levels.With luck this will circumvent older issues and dodge the problem of a wasteland full of supermutie masters and albino radscorpions.
i liked the early gothic games for that... venture to far out into the dark woods as a new char, get eaten by the dragons.
Post by: DoomOnion on November 02, 2015, 12:43:03 pm
hum. if you want real dialoges, i suggest to play pen and paper rpg with your friends.
afaik were far from anything that can pass the turing test, so intelligent conversations with npc bystanders may be a few years off.
My PnP experience consists of a lot of real dialogues, but they have rarely been intelligent, I'll give you that! :D
I think it's not about intelligent conversations, but more about maintaining the suspension of disbelief in the world with the dialogues so that the player can interact with it comfortably. In that sense, 111,000 lines would probably be enough to keep a player interested in the world for a few dozen hours.
Post by: motorbitch on November 02, 2015, 12:57:00 pm
but it comes more from the fact that there are so few unimportant locations and npc.
usually, if i can open a door, there is something behind it thats important in one way or another. if i can talk to someone, he has to say something important.
even if its a big city, it usually is almost empty, even if it has many many buildings, i can enter only a selectet few.
so, for me its not important that npc all have to say something unique, or that every appartment has individual furniture.
post apocalyptic games like fallout do mitigate this a lot tho. most buildings will be ruins, and almost everybody is supposed to be dead XD
Post by: AlleeCat on November 02, 2015, 01:19:21 pm
mount and blade does wellI actually really like how Mount and Blade does it. It lets you pick between a few ways to do it, but I prefer to do it based on enemy position. Basically, if the enemy is below the center of you camera, you do an overhead strike, if the enemy is to the left, you swing from the right, etc.
It's a good way to do it, IMO.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 02, 2015, 01:29:08 pm
Fallout 3 and NV had that too though, really. Maybe just not as much. And Daggerfall did it excessively, the streets were full of unimportant people who'd give you directions and stuff. I don't think that was the case in Morrowind through Skyrim though... Everyone was either unique, a soldier/guard, or a bandit. No generic unimportant civilians. I don't remember many/any unused buildings, either... The cities didn't feel tiny to me, but they really were.
Post by: Shadowlord on November 02, 2015, 01:41:38 pm
I imagine Morrowind's story's depth was probably helped by the fact that almost nobody was voiced, so the writers could presumably write as much as they wanted and revise it as much as they wanted, without worrying about voice actors having to re-record stuff they'd already recorded before it changed, or trying to schedule them all at the end of development, or whatever.
Post by: Guardian G.I. on November 02, 2015, 02:22:23 pm
Post by: Yoink on November 02, 2015, 02:29:05 pm
I just hope it doesn't wind up with super-bland levelling/scaling like Oblivion. Or was it Oblivion I'm thinking of? Not sure, been so long since I played it. There are a few games which take all the fun out of progressing by having every enemy scale accurately to your level... not that that's a problem in itself, but it's very frustrating when the exact same foe that was just able to kick your ass in combat early on is still able to just kick your ass after you've gone and had a training montage/upgraded all your equipment or whatever. :PQuoteFallout 4 has no level cap, and we’ve balanced the game to keep the content and challenge going for higher levels.With luck this will circumvent older issues and dodge the problem of a wasteland full of supermutie masters and albino radscorpions.
Re: Leak: Do they know how it was leaked? It's always sad when stuff like this happens.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 02, 2015, 02:32:19 pm
I just hope it doesn't wind up with super-bland levelling/scaling like Oblivion. Or was it Oblivion I'm thinking of? Not sure, been so long since I played it. There are a few games which take all the fun out of progressing by having every enemy scale accurately to your level... not that that's a problem in itself, but it's very frustrating when the exact same foe that was just able to kick your ass in combat early on is still able to just kick your ass after you've gone and had a training montage/upgraded all your equipment or whatever. :PQuoteFallout 4 has no level cap, and we’ve balanced the game to keep the content and challenge going for higher levels.With luck this will circumvent older issues and dodge the problem of a wasteland full of supermutie masters and albino radscorpions.
Re: Leak: Do they know how it was leaked? It's always sad when stuff like this happens.
That was problem in Oblivion, yeah. Later on you'd find Minotaur Lords just roaming the wilderness in packs, bandits would be clad in daedric armour, and oblivion gates would have nothing but high-level demora and storm atronachs.
Post by: scriver on November 02, 2015, 03:02:27 pm
I hope that means you can melee with it somehow.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 02, 2015, 03:39:37 pm
I just hope it doesn't wind up with super-bland levelling/scaling like Oblivion. Or was it Oblivion I'm thinking of? Not sure, been so long since I played it. There are a few games which take all the fun out of progressing by having every enemy scale accurately to your level... not that that's a problem in itself, but it's very frustrating when the exact same foe that was just able to kick your ass in combat early on is still able to just kick your ass after you've gone and had a training montage/upgraded all your equipment or whatever. :PQuoteFallout 4 has no level cap, and we’ve balanced the game to keep the content and challenge going for higher levels.With luck this will circumvent older issues and dodge the problem of a wasteland full of supermutie masters and albino radscorpions.
Re: Leak: Do they know how it was leaked? It's always sad when stuff like this happens.
That was problem in Oblivion, yeah. Later on you'd find Minotaur Lords just roaming the wilderness in packs, bandits would be clad in daedric armour, and oblivion gates would have nothing but high-level demora and storm atronachs.
God, yeah, that's the exact same issue as in FO3.
I'd honestly like to see a more roguelike approach to it, where increasing level/difficulty means that you see larger groups of more common enemies and more frequent appearances from rarer enemies alongside each other, rather than just turning the existing spawns from bandit_easy to bandit_medium or whatever.
e: HOLY SHIT THOSE VIDEOS DID YOU SEE IT? CONTAINER/BODY LOOTING THAT DOESN'T PAUSE AND OPEN ANOTHER SCREEN!
Also, I totally called it: You start with low SPECIAL scores can use perk points to raise SPECIAL them.
But jeebus the animations are bad. I hope this was from a leaked in-house build and not what's releasing in a couple weeks.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 02, 2015, 04:14:31 pm
God, yeah, that's the exact same issue as in FO3.
I'd honestly like to see a more roguelike approach to it, where increasing level/difficulty means that you see larger groups of more common enemies and more frequent appearances from rarer enemies alongside each other, rather than just turning the existing spawns from bandit_easy to bandit_medium or whatever.
e: HOLY SHIT THOSE VIDEOS DID YOU SEE IT? CONTAINER/BODY LOOTING THAT DOESN'T PAUSE AND OPEN ANOTHER SCREEN!
Also, I totally called it: You start with low SPECIAL scores can use perk points to raise SPECIAL them.
I actually found it was actually pretty good in FO3, considering... right until I installed Broken Steel, when all animals became Albino Radscorpions, all ghouls became Reavers, and super mutants became Overlords. Everything suddenly leapt into becoming bullet sponges that did huge amounts of damage.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 02, 2015, 04:18:17 pm
Okay, the good news from the leaks is that they're all XBone, which is why the graphics look like shit.
Post by: miauw62 on November 02, 2015, 04:18:46 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 02, 2015, 04:20:35 pm
Tbh a roguelike system would be no level scaling at all: just harder and easier areas.
Uhhh... a LOT of roguelikes have scaling outright. A popular example would be IVAN where enemies scaled directly to your HP.
Post by: scriver on November 02, 2015, 04:34:00 pm
Yeah, that's what I meant. Don't know anybody who played FO3 but never got BS.
It was pretty much the same without BS, but it was better than Oblivion. The level-of-area-locked-on-first-visit method meant that you could, technically speaking, go back to an area you've already been in and be superior to the enemies you faced before, but every new place you'd visit still suffered from bring scaled directly to your level the first time you got there. So you'd still get Super Mutant Pighead Raider Boombox Enthusiast Warlords and stuff like that.
Also about the leak videos: I am ridiculously in log with the wind up plasma rifle :D
Post by: Flying Dice on November 02, 2015, 05:19:21 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 02, 2015, 05:21:23 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 02, 2015, 05:23:58 pm
The new laser sounds are definitely an improvement over the old pew-pew toy noises, sounds like they did their research this time.
In all fairness "Terrible scifi" does make "Pew-Pew" a lot more realistic to the source material.
Unless you mean "did their research" as in they found out what the 1950s laser sound effects were... technically the appropriate sound would likely be silent.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 02, 2015, 05:32:16 pm
The new laser sounds are definitely an improvement over the old pew-pew toy noises, sounds like they did their research this time.
In all fairness "Terrible scifi" does make "Pew-Pew" a lot more realistic to the source material.
Unless you mean "did their research" as in they found out what the 1950s laser sound effects were... technically the appropriate sound would likely be silent.
Strictly speaking, that's only true for existing lasers used in real-life applications. FO lasers are fired in short, extremely high-energy bursts rather than continuous beams--the energy necessary for them to do the damage they do is such that you'd get a crack similar to what was in the leaked footage from air being heated along the laser's path.
Post by: Egan_BW on November 02, 2015, 05:35:36 pm
Post by: JimboM12 on November 02, 2015, 07:33:58 pm
Post by: umiman on November 03, 2015, 12:01:47 am
Post by: Culise on November 03, 2015, 12:37:32 am
...
We'll just hope that's adaptive UI set up for gamepad compatibility and not lazy porting. Bethesda isn't From, and From had the excuse of inexperience.
Post by: Drakale on November 03, 2015, 12:41:08 am
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on November 03, 2015, 12:49:04 am
PC ultra graphics screenshots: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=183959906&postcount=5569
Something looks the tiniest bit off, and it's bugging me that I can't figure out what it is.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 03, 2015, 12:54:06 am
Post by: umiman on November 03, 2015, 01:03:00 am
It's probably the more artsy art direction they took.PC ultra graphics screenshots: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=183959906&postcount=5569
Something looks the tiniest bit off, and it's bugging me that I can't figure out what it is.
I'm not a fan of it myself but I think everyone here knows I'm not really looking forward to the game anyway because of other reasons.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 03, 2015, 01:09:15 am
Post by: XhAPPYSLApX on November 03, 2015, 01:19:58 am
PC ultra graphics screenshots: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=183959906&postcount=5569
I keep on thinking that I'm litterally the only one who thinks the graphics actually don't look bad, as in, they look pretty good actually. Though, I was never one to dwell on the graphical portion of games, because gameplay is WAY more important imho. Hopefully the dialogue wheel is not bad either, at least it'll keep you in the action, since you can walk around and shoot whilst talking, which I think is an improvement of sorts.
Small edit: It also seems apparent from going around the internet that I'm also the only one judging the game on it's own merits rather than judging solely on the fact that it is a sequel. I get the sentiment, but every game should be judged based on it's own mechanics rather than comparing it to a completely different game, like, The Witcher 3 for example.
Post by: Catastrophic lolcats on November 03, 2015, 01:37:13 am
Post by: Rolan7 on November 03, 2015, 01:44:40 am
I guess I'll get used to it though, there hasn't been an Elder Scrolls or 3D Fallout where the graphics matched the mechanics or the quests.
Small edit: It also seems apparent from going around the internet that I'm also the only one judging the game on it's own merits rather than judging solely on the fact that it is a sequel. I get the sentiment, but every game should be judged based on it's own mechanics rather than comparing it to a completely different game, like, The Witcher 3 for example.Well, it's a Fallout game and should be judged as such. It's riding on the Fallout label, which means we should expect a Fallout-tier experience.
I'm still optimistic. Also locked in, so fingers crossed. We've seen a lot of solid information that indicates that it's straying from the roots even farther, but it still looks interesting. Just different.
Fakedit: Hm, not locked in. Well... Still going to roll the dice, I guess. Since I got a discount, and I haven't been truly disappointed by a Bethesda game yet. They have flaws, but I still enjoyed all the big ones.
Post by: JimboM12 on November 03, 2015, 01:46:03 am
Only seven more days left before you can no longer cancel your preorder.
Cancel....my.....preorder?
NEVER.
My hype has been kept in check recently by the fact I expect many release day bugs and also getting The Witcher 3 to keep me busy till then. But re-watching the E3 presentation and the trailers makes me think that even if it turns out to be Fallout 3.Newvegas, I'll love it all the same. Anything they left out (and they didn't miss much) can be corrected by mods. Surprisingly, the thing that has me most excited now is the layered armor system that's reminiscent of Morrowind. I can wear my fancy suit and put shiny metal armor over it.
Post by: Vendayn on November 03, 2015, 01:55:54 am
it looks WAY better than witcher 3, which its graphics got so badly nerfed from what they showed it.
And fallout 4 compared to fallout 3 is, you can't even prepare it...even modded fallout 3 looks like trash compared to fallout 4 (granted fallout 3 is a lot older). and fallout 4 looks better and more crisp than even skyrim did, I thought skyrim without graphics mods looked really ugly lol...though modded skyrim looks epic as heck
unless they are pulling a witcher on us, and when its released they'll come up with a BS excuse that it was just cinematics and the graphics are worse...lol...which mods would fix anyway
Post by: Flying Dice on November 03, 2015, 02:01:01 am
Post by: XhAPPYSLApX on November 03, 2015, 02:03:50 am
Only seven more days left before you can no longer cancel your preorder.
Cancel....my.....preorder?
NEVER.
My hype has been kept in check recently by the fact I expect many release day bugs and also getting The Witcher 3 to keep me busy till then. But re-watching the E3 presentation and the trailers makes me think that even if it turns out to be Fallout 3.Newvegas, I'll love it all the same. Anything they left out (and they didn't miss much) can be corrected by mods. Surprisingly, the thing that has me most excited now is the layered armor system that's reminiscent of Morrowind. I can wear my fancy suit and put shiny metal armor over it.
To be honest I couldn't care less about the dialogue and such, I have the other Fallouts for that, I just wanna make a badass looking character with badass looking power armor and weapons :D and have a lot of fun in doing so. And in my personal opinion, I actually like having a voiced protagonist, makes emotional moments (hopefully there are some) better sometimes. Though, I still don't know if it works in conjunction with Fallout, but hopefully it does.
dunno why people think fallout 4 looks bad. like are people blind or something?
it looks WAY better than witcher 3, which its graphics got so badly nerfed from what they showed it.
And fallout 4 compared to fallout 3 is, you can't even prepare it...even modded fallout 3 looks like trash compared to fallout 4 (granted fallout 3 is a lot older). and fallout 4 looks better and more crisp than even skyrim did, I thought skyrim without graphics mods looked really ugly lol...though modded skyrim looks epic as heck
unless they are pulling a witcher on us, and when its released they'll come up with a BS excuse that it was just cinematics and the graphics are worse...lol...which mods would fix anyway
That's my exact thought, the fact that they were up front about it, not parading it with graphics that won't actually be in the game, they are being honest, and I like that. I think the witcher looks better raw graphics wise, but it lacks in overall style imho, Fallout has always had a clear and distinct style, which I also like.
Post by: Vendayn on November 03, 2015, 02:05:50 am
That's the thing, if your big complaint is the graphics... sure, don't buy it. The rest of us will have a suite of high-end graphics mods a few weeks/months down the line.
yeah lol. Some of the first mods, after the nude ones, will be texture mods lol. Which nude mods are kinda texture mods anyway, but you get the point :P though nude mods might actually come later this time, since the character creator is so much more advanced. In any case, there will be so many mods to enhance the game in various ways.
With that said, my suggestion is to avoid ALL gameplay mods until after all the patches and dlcs are done being released. After getting skyrim at release, I remember needing to reinstall a lot cause mods broke badly after certain patches and expansions. Texture mods are fine though
Post by: Flying Dice on November 03, 2015, 02:29:55 am
Post by: Vendayn on November 03, 2015, 02:38:59 am
Eh, nude mods are pretty much necessary if you don't like the Bethesda potato-people with square fingers and lumpy faces. It's nice when they have an option that's the high-res textures and better model without full frontal nudity, but either is better than vanilla models and textures on your character when everything else is super-nice. The only strictly non-nude body mod I can think of was one for Skyrim, and that only messed with the textures and didn't look particularly great (though still better than vanilla, natch).
well, yeah...like
my skyrim character
http://static-4.nexusmods.com/15/images/110/15461404-1439518814.jpg
looks amazing.
but skyrim vanilla characters don't look that bad though compared to oblivion and fallout 3. it was a huge improvement in skyrim, but yeah, modded characters do look better.
Post by: Ultimuh on November 03, 2015, 03:19:08 am
PC ultra graphics screenshots: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=183959906&postcount=5569
I'd rather want to see Minimal Requirements screenshots.
But that's just me I guess.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 03, 2015, 03:43:20 am
PC ultra graphics screenshots: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=183959906&postcount=5569
I'd rather want to see Minimal Requirements screenshots.
But that's just me I guess.
Watch the leaked videos. That's the XBone version. Going by the last couple games that's going to be a bit worse looking than the lowest settings you can get on PC without ini tweaks.
Post by: Ultimuh on November 03, 2015, 04:11:07 am
PC ultra graphics screenshots: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=183959906&postcount=5569
I'd rather want to see Minimal Requirements screenshots.
But that's just me I guess.
Watch the leaked videos. That's the XBone version. Going by the last couple games that's going to be a bit worse looking than the lowest settings you can get on PC without ini tweaks.
What if I cannot access those leaks due to them being removed or something?
Post by: Flying Dice on November 03, 2015, 05:08:52 am
PC ultra graphics screenshots: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=183959906&postcount=5569
I'd rather want to see Minimal Requirements screenshots.
But that's just me I guess.
Watch the leaked videos. That's the XBone version. Going by the last couple games that's going to be a bit worse looking than the lowest settings you can get on PC without ini tweaks.
What if I cannot access those leaks due to them being removed or something?
Potato-cam vids are still up. (https://vid.me/kjthemonarch)
Also relevant, leaked PC screenshots here (http://imgur.com/a/Wj4dm), taken on Ultra, with added jpg compression.
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 03, 2015, 07:01:59 am
HYPE HYPE HYPE
Post by: Yoink on November 03, 2015, 07:05:05 am
Still hype, though. Just gotta persuade my fraaaaands to buy it so I can borrow it.
Edit: I was gonna say "Doesn't [REDACTED] pretty much confirm the game's setting?" but then I realised [REDACTED] is a place name used more often than a $2 prostitute on New Year's Eve.
Post by: miauw62 on November 03, 2015, 08:51:40 am
Post by: DoomOnion on November 03, 2015, 10:05:35 am
However, you need to take into account that Bethesda is very good at cutting corners to make their game take as small space as possible. I think that:
a) It is very likely that they will release a HQ texture pack sometime after the release
b) It is a good sign that the 30gb file size of this game is not filled with unimportant things like 4k resolution tire textures.
Post by: Ultimuh on November 03, 2015, 10:55:28 am
a) It is very likely that they will release a HQ texture pack sometime after the release
If Skyrim is anything to go by, It's probably not worth the lag.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 03, 2015, 02:59:25 pm
a) It is very likely that they will release a HQ texture pack sometime after the release
If Skyrim is anything to go by, It's probably not worth the lag.
Especially not when mods do it better months before the thing is released.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 03, 2015, 03:00:55 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on November 03, 2015, 03:05:07 pm
Seeing "Red Rocket" gets me every time.If only you could name your dog Sparky, eh?
Wait, no, I'm sure there'll be a mod for that.
Post by: BigD145 on November 03, 2015, 04:05:33 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 03, 2015, 04:38:05 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 03, 2015, 04:41:16 pm
I really dig the new art style, and I honestly feel like they got the rubber texture of vault suits right this time, as opposed to that glossy vinyl stuff they had in FNV and F3.
Odd as vault suits are apparently made out of leather (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Vault_jumpsuit).
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 03, 2015, 04:43:24 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 03, 2015, 04:57:16 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 04, 2015, 12:52:14 am
Post by: Krevsin on November 04, 2015, 06:29:52 am
Kinky.I really dig the new art style, and I honestly feel like they got the rubber texture of vault suits right this time, as opposed to that glossy vinyl stuff they had in FNV and F3.
Odd as vault suits are apparently made out of leather (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Vault_jumpsuit).
I liked the look of vault jumpsuits in FO3 and NV. They looked like actual jumpsuits rather than spandex body gloves like in FO1 and FO2.
I can't be mad at FO4 tho, mainly because of that luvverly luvverly ummm... blue.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 04, 2015, 06:35:16 am
Post by: TempAcc on November 04, 2015, 06:38:51 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 04, 2015, 06:39:19 am
Post by: TempAcc on November 04, 2015, 07:19:48 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 04, 2015, 07:25:15 am
Post by: TempAcc on November 04, 2015, 07:39:50 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 04, 2015, 07:47:54 am
Post by: motorbitch on November 04, 2015, 07:52:42 am
Post by: TempAcc on November 04, 2015, 07:53:30 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 04, 2015, 07:54:07 am
Post by: Krevsin on November 04, 2015, 09:25:55 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 04, 2015, 10:01:00 am
EVIDENCE: SATAN
Post by: DoomOnion on November 04, 2015, 10:13:24 am
Post by: motorbitch on November 04, 2015, 10:30:52 am
tho... not sure its good thing. its proably very hard to penetrate.
Post by: TempAcc on November 04, 2015, 10:39:58 am
FALSE.EVEN SATAN (http://www.top10films.co.uk/img/timCurryLegend_top10films.jpg) LIKES THE MANBUTT
EVIDENCE: SATAN
Post by: Sergarr on November 04, 2015, 10:46:59 am
it's getting on the level of the spacebound thread a week before release
Post by: pisskop on November 04, 2015, 10:56:31 am
Post by: Gabeux on November 04, 2015, 11:06:57 am
It's still 3 days from 3 days to release people.
Someone pass me the vaultmeat.
Sorry..
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 04, 2015, 02:45:55 pm
I told myself I wouldn't preorder.
...I'm almost certainly going to preorder it.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 04, 2015, 03:25:44 pm
Post by: JimboM12 on November 04, 2015, 03:44:31 pm
Augh i really shouldn't preorder.
I told myself I wouldn't preorder.
...I'm almost certainly going to preorder it.
Green Man Gaming has a 20% off Promo going on now, good until the 6th of Nov.
...just in case.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 04, 2015, 03:46:21 pm
What happened to this thread.Six days until I fake sick like a motherfucker and play me some Fallout.
It's still 3 days from 3 days to release people.
Someone pass me the vaultmeat.
Sorry..
Post by: Zangi on November 04, 2015, 03:54:31 pm
Post by: Graknorke on November 04, 2015, 04:51:50 pm
That ass is glorious.You meant what what (https://youtu.be/fbGkxcY7YFU), right?
Also, I immediately thought 'Putt putt in the butt'. I may need some mental sanitation at some point...
Post by: Tellemurius on November 04, 2015, 05:02:12 pm
Since Bethesda had that blotched paid workshop attempt with Skyrim it should be on everyone's mind about what's going on with paid mods now.
If you looked into the released EULA, Bethesda has now stated that all mods must be distributed as free. So for the most part there will not be paid mods on steam or shady modders cannot sell their mods for profit.
HOWEVER its time for catch-22. Bethesda states that all custom content created for the game is wholly owned by the LICENSOR (ie. Bethesda) and not by the authors, that they can use custom content for promotions and advertising.
Post by: miauw62 on November 04, 2015, 05:09:08 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on November 04, 2015, 05:26:46 pm
Post by: BigD145 on November 04, 2015, 05:27:15 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on November 04, 2015, 05:52:36 pm
This is pretty much the closest we'll get to ideal: it's an implicit statement of "no paid mods" while also allowing user-generated content to exist without legal uncertainty (albeit by claiming rights over it). It would be nice for Bethesda to allow modders to retain ownership over their work, but that's not going to happen outside of bizarro-world, and the theoretical loss of ownership to Bethesda in some convoluted future event is preferable to the literal theft of your work by shameless profit-seekers in the present.
Of course, theoretically, it also means that lawsuits over stuff copied from other properties into Skyrim mods would be directed at Bethesda rather than the modder.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 04, 2015, 05:54:58 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on November 04, 2015, 06:00:33 pm
Not that this would be the game to do that in.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 04, 2015, 06:18:00 pm
https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/3fis0s/why_specifically_is_it_not_legal_to_sell_mods_for/
Specific section: http://pastebin.com/q4LVsAnr
Entire EULA: http://store.steampowered.com/eula/eula_202480
Essentially (assuming the EULA would hold up in your local court, not necessarily true especially in Europe), the modder cannot sell mods themselves. And Bethesda has the right to distribute them as they see fit.
Technically this only applies if the modder used the official tools... But it's probably against the license to backwards-engineer the ESM files. So that's not an out.
Asking for donations is fine, and participating in Bethesda/Steam's marketplace was fine. But yeah... Bethesda does essentially own the mods, or specifically, has the rights to do whatever they want with them.
This isn't new though...
It's also not *bad*, it's not like Bethesda is going to steal mods and sell them themselves. As we saw, they offered a system for people to sell mods... or keep offering them for free, whatever the mod author preferred. They only ever offered mod authors an optional system.
Technically Bethesda could have just put all the mods up for sale and taken 100% of the profits (split with Steam I guess). But to be fair to their detractors, that would have been a terribly short-sighted decision.
Post by: Neonivek on November 04, 2015, 06:33:23 pm
assuming the EULA would hold up in your local court, not necessarily true especially in Europe
And completely not legal in Canada.
And while technically "legal" in the USA, the tendency for EULAs to fail in court... Doesn't make it rather strong.
Post by: Shadowlord on November 04, 2015, 06:50:04 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 04, 2015, 09:27:04 pm
I wonder if you could hire them and make a development studio on your settlement and then distribute your original games and modded games throughout the wasteland, bringing entertainment and psychological need satisfaction to the whole race, therefore saving mankind from extinction by simply reminding them that the future is still something to look forward to.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 04, 2015, 10:28:24 pm
It'll be a mod(s) though
Post by: Neonivek on November 04, 2015, 10:46:04 pm
If they have a binding arbitration clause, so far those have proven to be bulletproof (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/01/business/dealbook/arbitration-everywhere-stacking-the-deck-of-justice.html) in US courts.
Well EULAs have a bit more of a... iffy legality.
Mostly because you have to buy the product before you get the contract... the contract which if you do not sign disallows you to use said product.
The EULAs are used MOSTLY as a way to strengthen court cases for businesses in the USA then it is to be used with true legal authority.
And whether or not private arbitration laws should be legal has been up for debate for a long time.
Post by: Gabeux on November 05, 2015, 02:50:50 am
Does anyone else plan to play it on the hardest difficulty, hardcore mode, and sticking to it if it's playable?
I haven't researched the info about how difficulty will work, but I played some hours of Fallout 3 a month or so ago and I'm pretty sure I punched a Deathclaw to death on Normal.
[It was on a random encounter on what probably was a low-level area, but still..I never saw that before, and it sucked.]
As long as it doesn't make settlement building impossible, I'm considering it.
Post by: Shadowlord on November 05, 2015, 02:56:31 am
Post by: Neonivek on November 05, 2015, 03:12:52 am
I've been meaning to ask something, regarding difficulty.
Does anyone else plan to play it on the hardest difficulty, hardcore mode, and sticking to it if it's playable?
Generally speaking if all a harder difficulty does is increase numbers on an enemy... I usually ignore it completely.
The only game where exactly that happened but where it was actually very interesting was Freedom Force... Because the higher numbers actually altered quite a bit more then just HP and defense.
I miss the days of old where harder difficulties would change enemy layouts... WHY THE FUDGE is a great feature from a bazillion years ago never done? WHY THE HECK aren't the higher difficulties in Fallout 3, NV, and 4 actually doing things like increasing the number of enemies, giving them better gear, and even adding tougher enemies earlier? That will always be the biggest WTF for me... it isn't even that much work.
Post by: Gabeux on November 05, 2015, 03:31:28 am
Was it your first time playing? It might not have been random: IIRC FO3 leads you to a grocery store where a "wounded deathclaw" ambushes you, but it's so weak that it's really not much of a threat at all (I ran in circles around a building for a few minutes avoiding it because AHHHH A DEATHCLAW). I'm not sure but I don't recall the normal ones being that much of a danger either, though.
Nope. I finished FO3 twice near its release, but back then I didn't try to maximize damage or build my character in any way that would made sense. Didn't go around trying to break the game too much either.
It was an encounter with a Deathclaw vs. Outcasts beneath a bridge, on the city ruins to the east of the starting area.
I also noticed that I could insta-kill Talon Company mercs, but going too much to the west made even their heads bulletproof.
What's funny is that I never noticed how bad that feels way back on release, because I was younger and in love with the game..so I just probably never fell out of the predicted/optimal path or something.
This time I was just getting my fix before FO4 and well, I guess I just discovered how naive I was 6 years ago.
Generally speaking if all a harder difficulty does is increase numbers on an enemy... I usually ignore it completely.Yeah, I agree completely. Maybe it has to do with balance: enemy drops better gear sooner, so the player could just get that gear on Hard and swap back to Easy.
I'm not sure what would be the best way to balance that.
I remember playing some game that difficulty also effected enemy tactics, coordination, overall intelligence, agressiveness and "compassion". That sort of thing is what makes harder difficulty appealing to me.
I'm really hoping they do difficulty right. When I played FO2, I really sucked, but I liked how some encounters were easy while some were damn-near impossible because of my skills (or lack of them).
I wonder if that's what they are going for with the changes in SPECIAL, perks and all that.
I also suspect people must have discussed the hell out of those things in the last fifty pages and I'm just too late for the party.
Post by: Muz on November 05, 2015, 04:36:17 am
I've been meaning to ask something, regarding difficulty.
Does anyone else plan to play it on the hardest difficulty, hardcore mode, and sticking to it if it's playable?
I haven't researched the info about how difficulty will work, but I played some hours of Fallout 3 a month or so ago and I'm pretty sure I punched a Deathclaw to death on Normal.
[It was on a random encounter on what probably was a low-level area, but still..I never saw that before, and it sucked.]
As long as it doesn't make settlement building impossible, I'm considering it.
I had a Plasma Rifle, mid level skill on FO:NV. Barely wounded deathclaws and they would rip me to shreds.
Fallout 3 was pretty weak. New Vegas was a lot of fun; similar difficulty to FO2.
I kinda screwed up at one point and ended up saving right before an Alpha Deathclaw ambush and it would one-hit kill me every time. I had to use a Stealth Boy to get out of that one.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 05, 2015, 05:02:55 am
NV, though, fuck that noise. Get 'em stuck on something and hope they don't glitch through before you kill them
Post by: Ultimuh on November 05, 2015, 05:10:01 am
That would be mildly interesting, don't you think?
Post by: scriver on November 05, 2015, 05:13:01 am
long as it doesn't make settlement building impossible, I'm considering it.
I don't think it would be likely to make settlementing more difficult. Perhaps more tedious though. To me it looked like we would be able to break down random stuff lying around into "building bricks", so to speak, and if there's something no bethesda game lacks it's random shit everywhere ;)
As for enemies you might face, they probably won't be any harder than in the rest of the game on hard, so of you can survive other parts of the game on hard then you will probably be able to survive whatever enemies, random or not-random, showed up in your door. I guess NPCs might not be as lucky.
I'm really looking forward to seeing how this part of the game turns out, by the way. So far I've gotten the impression there will only be a fee spots you can choose to colonize (which I guess is sad but understandable), but I'm still very curious about how much freedom you'll have over the layout within those areas. Hopefully it won't be too strict.
Post by: Aseaheru on November 05, 2015, 05:54:47 am
And frankly, if someone does make a mod allowing you to build foundations anywhere, I hope they make it cost alot. Or take alot of time, or similar.
Post by: TempAcc on November 05, 2015, 06:40:03 am
Anyway, regarding the EULA woes on Bethesda's rights on custom content, I think it'll only be applicable if said custom content is created with the provided toolkit, which isn't something new or unique to FO4. And it doesn't exactly mean Bethesda can just go "hey guy, nice content, mind if I sell it as DLC?", it just allows them to use it in advertising and whatnot, and prevents modders from selling that content.
EULAs are mostly legal, and so are arbitration clauses, too. An EULA is a contract that you expressively agree with to use a product. The real discussion on the legality of EULAs is that a lot of people think EULAs should be made more explicit BEFORE the consumer actualy pays for the product the EULA concerns, which isn't always the case. Arbitration clauses and courts have been recognized in the US and most of the world for quite a while now, so the legality of its decisions isn't really up to debate, its just that its handled differently in different parts of the world. In some legislations, decisions made by an arbitration court need to be validated by judge/court later to be applicable, while in a lot of other places, they're applicable by themselves, and sometimes there are even legal mechanisms that prevent it from being reformed by the judiciary, unless its in explicity violation of federal law or the constitution.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 05, 2015, 07:58:32 am
Post by: Lightningfalcon on November 05, 2015, 11:44:27 am
Post by: Putnam on November 05, 2015, 11:48:02 am
Does anyone else plan to play it on the hardest difficulty, hardcore mode, and sticking to it if it's playable?
There is no hardcore mode.
Post by: Egan_BW on November 05, 2015, 11:48:28 am
Post by: PTTG?? on November 05, 2015, 11:57:36 am
Spoiler: Main Plot Guessing (click to show/hide)
Post by: sprinkled chariot on November 05, 2015, 01:50:35 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 05, 2015, 02:54:12 pm
"Don't go that way. Deathclaws are in there!"
Then I thought "Huh, who would put the most powerful monster right at the beggining? The claw is a lie"
And dead. Fuck that.
[I barely remember anything from NV though. I rushed it so bad.]
long as it doesn't make settlement building impossible, I'm considering it.As for enemies you might face, they probably won't be any harder than in the rest of the game on hard, so of you can survive other parts of the game on hard then you will probably be able to survive whatever enemies, random or not-random, showed up in your door. I guess NPCs might not be as lucky.
I'm really looking forward to seeing how this part of the game turns out, by the way. So far I've gotten the impression there will only be a fee spots you can choose to colonize (which I guess is sad but understandable), but I'm still very curious about how much freedom you'll have over the layout within those areas. Hopefully it won't be too strict.
Yep, I guess what I meant was about difficulty making it harder to manage the settlement (keep people and defences alive, etc), because if harder difficulties just makes enemies tougher and friendly NPCs stays the same, we all know what will happen. :P
There is no hardcore mode.Really? :(
Survival mods will come, I guess.
Also, launch trailer's awesome of course. But some animations and facial expressions looked a bit weird, right?
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on November 05, 2015, 03:23:29 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 05, 2015, 03:25:24 pm
Post by: umiman on November 05, 2015, 03:32:58 pm
Someone link the trailer, pwhease? I'm a little busy right now IRL, gonna watch it later tonight.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5aJfebzkrM&feature=youtu.be
Post by: PTTG?? on November 05, 2015, 04:00:22 pm
Fallout 4 Script Extender (as is traditional): Every game since Morrowind has had it...
Skip The Freezer: Jump right to the vault exit upon starting the game.
October 22: Disables the war script and builds up the pre-war section of the game; just wander around town.
The massive, poorly-documented combat enhancement mod that does everything from enabling you to pick up a spear after throwing it to add a set of lovingly-animated genital punishment executions.
320 mods that start with the word Better.
Fellout (decreases haze)
Fallingout (increases haze)
A mod to make the prewar spouse match the PC gender.
An implementation of Minecraft in the pip-boy.
Post by: umiman on November 05, 2015, 04:06:18 pm
Post by: Kot on November 05, 2015, 04:06:40 pm
EDIT:
Also Unnoficial Patches.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 05, 2015, 04:07:28 pm
Augh i really shouldn't preorder.
I told myself I wouldn't preorder.
...I'm almost certainly going to preorder it.
Green Man Gaming has a 20% off Promo going on now, good until the 6th of Nov.
...just in case.
Seems I was too late. It's still only the 5th, here, but there doesn't seem to be a sale.
How irritating.
Post by: umiman on November 05, 2015, 04:09:22 pm
SAVE20-NOVEMB-GAMING
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 05, 2015, 04:13:32 pm
Post by: BigD145 on November 05, 2015, 05:04:54 pm
The inevitable must-have mods:
Bigger Breasts (that also makes all old women, female children, and ghouls have them)
Smaller Old Woman Breasts
Post by: Gabeux on November 05, 2015, 05:06:46 pm
And also the Fallout 4 Perks List (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_4_perks) for faster comprehension?
If you, like me, are worried about spending 5h in-game just reading through everything and then still screwing it all up and being forced to start over.
Beware of minor spoilers, like...the perks. And is it confirmed that we get 21 Special points to distribute?
I planned almost to level 25, but I think I'm prioritizing crafting and abundance of money/ammo too much.
Pretty sure I'll lack damage and resistance, but meh. I really want to craft and build neat stuff.
4,4,3,6,6,3,2 for me. Weird because I usually go for as much Agility and Luck as possible.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 05, 2015, 05:39:17 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 05, 2015, 06:10:58 pm
Post by: BigD145 on November 05, 2015, 06:15:57 pm
Which is a cool idea to me, because I like the idea of scavenging around for fuel.
Perhaps scavenging for rare fuel found only in vaults?
Post by: miauw62 on November 05, 2015, 06:41:22 pm
Also, a mod that adds a few gorillion new parts and types of weapon, so you can CUSTOMIZE HARDER.
Plus custom weapons that are OP and mounted onto your power armor.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 05, 2015, 06:50:52 pm
That perk Nuclear Physicist seems to hint that power armor can't operate indefinitely.I vaguely recall the videos showing the power armour having a fuel gauge? Or was that heat? I'll have to go back and check at some point.
Post by: BigD145 on November 05, 2015, 06:51:02 pm
Inevitably: Better Building, or More Buildable Objects.
Also, a mod that adds a few gorillion new parts and types of weapon, so you can CUSTOMIZE HARDER.
Plus custom weapons that are OP and mounted onto your power armor.
Lore Friendly Power Suit
Post by: Gabeux on November 05, 2015, 06:57:20 pm
Damn, now my perk-progression is wrong. :P
Also, waiting for the Better Mods and Modded Mods mods.
Post by: JimboM12 on November 05, 2015, 07:06:55 pm
Damn that release trai- CHOO CHOO.
Post by: scriver on November 05, 2015, 07:46:45 pm
Realistic Brahmin Genitalia
Post by: DoomOnion on November 05, 2015, 07:47:59 pm
Post by: Teneb on November 05, 2015, 07:53:34 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 05, 2015, 08:10:29 pm
Also, I'm sad that my GFX card has only 1GB VRAM. :'(
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 05, 2015, 08:17:02 pm
A mod to make the prewar spouse match the PC gender.Console commands.
Post by: PTTG?? on November 05, 2015, 09:16:37 pm
Don't forget the nude mods for that manbutt. Also Alternate Start prolly. (Also Sexout, but shhhh, we're not pervs, are we?)
EDIT:
Also Unnoficial Patches.
Ohhh yeah, like the Unofficial Patch that fixes 4000 misplaced rocks floating in the air, and also makes it so that the main questline doesn't inevitably corrupt saves- bugs that Bethesda never gets around to patching...
Post by: Graknorke on November 05, 2015, 09:23:13 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on November 05, 2015, 09:34:02 pm
Are you ready to have your hopes crushed? (https://youtu.be/yvGXCisAaR4)TODD HOWARD YOU DORK, GO BACK TO THE CHESS CLUB
Post by: Catastrophic lolcats on November 05, 2015, 09:56:13 pm
Are you ready to have your hopes crushed? (https://youtu.be/yvGXCisAaR4)That's beautiful.
Post by: Yoink on November 05, 2015, 11:41:10 pm
Was it your first time playing? It might not have been random: IIRC FO3 leads you to a grocery store where a "wounded deathclaw" ambushes you, but it's so weak that it's really not much of a threat at all (I ran in circles around a building for a few minutes avoiding it because AHHHH A DEATHCLAW). I'm not sure but I don't recall the normal ones being that much of a danger either, though.Huh, I don't remember that.
Then again, I probably panicked and dropped a mini-nuke on it because AHHHH A DEATHCLAW.
Anyway, I'm hoping I can convince my friend with a PS4 to buy this. Not sure if he will, yet.
I'll probably have to pay for half of it or something. :-\
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 05, 2015, 11:42:38 pm
Also, I really really really love the new separation of armor pieces because the whole "one outfit, one helmet" thing annoyed me a bit in 3 and New Vegas.
Post by: Vendayn on November 06, 2015, 12:04:11 am
despite all the hate fallout 4 is getting on reddit and steam, i'm still looking forward to it. It looks great to me from the leaked video, dunno whats up with people saying it looks ugly...animations are meh, but they've never been great in any bethesda game. everything else looks great to me graphics wise, but maybe i just really like the art style and other people don't like it or something. gameplay wise, it looks way better than fallout 3 and new vegas, but maybe its just me ;p
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 12:19:53 am
There is an issue with Fallout 4 I am unaware of? I mean other then saying "I don't think this game will be as awesome as people think it will be" but that really just amounts to me thinking this game is a 8 instead of a 10...
Post by: Vendayn on November 06, 2015, 12:22:07 am
What hate?
There is an issue with Fallout 4 I am unaware of? I mean other then saying "I don't think this game will be as awesome as people think it will be" but that really just amounts to me thinking this game is a 8 instead of a 10...
don't go to the steam fallout 4 forums or FO4 reddit (well at least a day or two ago it was filled with rants and how ugly the game looked amongst other stuff from the leaked video(s)) ;p or that nma place
maybe its just those three places lol.
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 12:26:38 am
Post by: Catastrophic lolcats on November 06, 2015, 12:41:06 am
So basically Graphics Snobs who are complaining that Fallout 4 doesn't need a super computer to run...I imagine people are just upset because a brand new triple A videogame costing $110 has graphics that barely compare to games from 5 years ago. STALKER: Clear Sky launched in 2008 from a minor studio in the fucking Ukraine that blows Fallout 4 out of the water.
Developers can always offer lower textures, console commands and low-poly patches if they're afraid their consumer base won't have the hardware to support their average graphical setting, limiting it from the start just screams of laziness. Shouting "MODDDERS WILL FIX EVERYTHING" is a massive cop-out which Bethseda gets shielded by constantly, especially when modders can't fix a shit story and bad quests.
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 12:53:59 am
Post by: Ultimuh on November 06, 2015, 12:56:41 am
Don't they just release texture packs later like in Skyrim?Most likely, but Skyrim's HD texture pack wasn't really all that great.
Also, it had issues with lag and texture glitches.
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 12:58:19 am
Don't they just release texture packs later like in Skyrim?Most likely, but Skyrim's HD texture pack wasn't really all that great.
Also, it had issues with lag and texture glitches.
Yeah but it is the same textures as the console versions. As for lag and glitches... Well I wonder why they limit the PC version's textures :P
Post by: Mech#4 on November 06, 2015, 01:04:06 am
It's like... I remember looking at a bench in a corner of a map in Shogun 2: Total War and thinking that this bench could had more detail that a unit model from the previous games. To what end? Sure it looks nice but I'm not going to spend all my time looking at it and any time I'm not is kind of wasted effort on the developers side.
The high resolution packs are nice to include if people wish for better looking textures. I'd rather they didn't include them in the base game because from what I remember of Skyrim, if the game started running out of memory space for textures it would start leaving large white meshes everywhere it failed to load a texture.
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 01:09:10 am
Post by: Mech#4 on November 06, 2015, 01:14:13 am
I think the slightly cartoony, bright style goes well with Fallout. A dark, realistic style like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. wouldn't match the 50s theme with all the bright plastic, neon, glowing radiation and so forth. Maybe ground cover could be better, as it is often a point in Bethesda games that you can tell the landscape is sculptured with dome brushes because the grass isn't thick enough or disappears a few meters in front of you.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 06, 2015, 01:21:47 am
I think the slightly cartoony, bright style goes well with Fallout.This made me groan out loud.
But it's true that it might work well. It does fit the 50ths aesthetic, and this protagonist is actually *from* the prewar era. So it somewhat makes sense.
I also don't care much about graphic quality, I have a very powerful suspension of belief. It's just a bit odd, compared to modern games and especially other Fallout games. I also don't believe that it's lowering the system requirements, they seem high to me. Significantly higher than Far Cry 4, for example, including *minimum* 8GB ram.
Edit: And a later graphics card than FC4. 2GB VRAM vs 1GB, and Radeon 7870 vs 5850. Which would be incredibly disappointing even if it did look appropriately detailed.
Post by: BFEL on November 06, 2015, 01:31:26 am
Has anyone recommended the Fallout 4 Build Planner (http://www.rpg-gaming.com/fo4.html) yet?3,2,10,1,9,2,1.
And also the Fallout 4 Perks List (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_4_perks) for faster comprehension?
If you, like me, are worried about spending 5h in-game just reading through everything and then still screwing it all up and being forced to start over.
Beware of minor spoilers, like...the perks. And is it confirmed that we get 21 Special points to distribute?
I planned almost to level 25, but I think I'm prioritizing crafting and abundance of money/ammo too much.
Pretty sure I'll lack damage and resistance, but meh. I really want to craft and build neat stuff.
4,4,3,6,6,3,2 for me. Weird because I usually go for as much Agility and Luck as possible.
With 3 strength for armor mods, crazy endurance perks, Nuclear Physicist so I can power armor harder....IMMORTALITY IS MINE!
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 01:36:30 am
Post by: Flying Dice on November 06, 2015, 01:44:04 am
Post by: scriver on November 06, 2015, 02:18:32 am
Are you ready to have your hopes crushed? (https://youtu.be/yvGXCisAaR4)That's beautiful.
Indeed.
In fact that is the reason I'm so very suspicurious about the settlement building. It basically looks to me like it's going to be this games hyped up feature that they don't deliver on. The "radiant AI" or "living economy" of F4, if you will, as Beth has a history of doing things like that. It's one of the things I'm the most eager to see how it turns out, because I really want it to be good.
So basically Graphics Snobs who are complaining that Fallout 4 doesn't need a super computer to run...
I think the line of reasoning is more "why do I need a super computer to run it when it looks so unmodern".
Post by: Yoink on November 06, 2015, 03:50:58 am
I'll probably go with a fairly average, normal character to start with before switching to the always-enjoyable 10 STR, 10 END, 1 INT berserker style melee bruiser and tearing a path of unnecessary destruction and hilarious dialogue across the wasteland. We'll just put it down to brain deterioration whilst in stasis or something. *shrug*
The only problem I can see with this plan is low INT making customizing things difficult... we shall see.
Also it looks like my friend might be gonna buy it.
And he has a job! I'll be able to sit on my arse all day crushing skulls with a super sledge whilst he's at work! :D
Post by: YaW on November 06, 2015, 06:10:59 am
That said, it's a little disappointing that Bethesda is making a little better console game that also runs on PC, like everyone else in this industry. I understand consoles are the priority right know, but damn, those Fallout 4 screens really hurt my eyes when I look closely...
Anyway, once I start shooting in VATS (I love it, sorry old school Fallout fans) I'll forget about those supermutant model and textures.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on November 06, 2015, 06:29:48 am
Post by: BFEL on November 06, 2015, 10:07:53 am
Oh damn it. Looks like it takes 30 gigabytes space. I have only around 10 G free... I have to uninstall quite few other games.Well this IS the only one you'll need :P
Post by: JimboM12 on November 06, 2015, 10:32:27 am
Post by: AoshimaMichio on November 06, 2015, 10:34:48 am
Those other games include previous Fallout games. I need those too. But otherwise you are probably right.Oh damn it. Looks like it takes 30 gigabytes space. I have only around 10 G free... I have to uninstall quite few other games.Well this IS the only one you'll need :P
Post by: nenjin on November 06, 2015, 10:40:03 am
Post by: Pancaek on November 06, 2015, 11:04:46 am
Post by: Teneb on November 06, 2015, 11:05:35 am
Just got my key from GMG as well. I'm pretty hype. Here's hoping the institute won't just be evul technonazis and the brotherhood won't just be goody paladins of justice and compassion.On the brotherhood front, the launch trailer shows the player fighting brotherhood members, so they may be more in line with stuff from the older fallouts/NV.
Post by: Knave on November 06, 2015, 11:29:17 am
Key is there, just didn't get an email about it :)
As long as it comes with enough time to preloaaaad.
Post by: Pancaek on November 06, 2015, 12:07:36 pm
Let's hope so. I'd love to do a more neutral playtrough instead of the full blown dick kick'em: wasteland asshole that FO3 made you be.Just got my key from GMG as well. I'm pretty hype. Here's hoping the institute won't just be evul technonazis and the brotherhood won't just be goody paladins of justice and compassion.On the brotherhood front, the launch trailer shows the player fighting brotherhood members, so they may be more in line with stuff from the older fallouts/NV.
I've heard that preload could be either tonight at 9pm GMT or on sunday. Nothing precise though. hype.Haven't got My GMG key yet.:-[
Key is there, just didn't get an email about it :)
As long as it comes with enough time to preloaaaad.
Post by: Krevsin on November 06, 2015, 12:13:16 pm
I just like the vibrancy. FO3 and NV looked really washed out, dull and drab.I think the slightly cartoony, bright style goes well with Fallout.This made me groan out loud.
But it's true that it might work well. It does fit the 50ths aesthetic, and this protagonist is actually *from* the prewar era. So it somewhat makes sense.
Some might say it adds to the posta-pocalyptic atmosphere, but STALKER managed to do it without putting a permanent green/grey/orange filter over everything and sucking all the colour out of the world.
As to the graphical requirements: something something triple A cannot optimize for toffee something something.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 06, 2015, 12:16:56 pm
They seemed perfectly nice in Fallout 2 :/ They distribute useful technology to help people, they just try to archive it first. They want to eventually rebuild the world's high-tech infrastructure. In the meantime they try to keep advanced military technology out of the hands of bandits.Just got my key from GMG as well. I'm pretty hype. Here's hoping the institute won't just be evul technonazis and the brotherhood won't just be goody paladins of justice and compassion.On the brotherhood front, the launch trailer shows the player fighting brotherhood members, so they may be more in line with stuff from the older fallouts/NV.
(From what I understand, in Fallout 1 they give you a quest they don't expect you to complete. But when you do, they're happy and make you a member, and the quest was actually very important)
They recruit from locals, too. Mostly in Fallout Tactics, but it's canon that they do it everywhere. Anybody can join the Brotherhood if they're useful enough to research or protect.
The NCR-Brotherhood war bothered me a lot, since I didn't see that coming at all from Fallout 2. But I guess good organizations can get corrupted, or (as the non-canon Van Buren indicated) have a radical leader come to power. As sad as it was, the conflict made New Vegas more interesting... If the Brotherhood had become an arm of the NCR like the Rangers, that would have been boring. Instead we have a bitter blood-war between two good factions.
Also I notice that people seem to misremember the NV ending slides, thinking that the Brotherhood always ends up raiding civilians for technology (something that just doesn't happen in Fallout 1 or 2, and only the Outcasts do it in 3). If the NCR wins the dam, and there's a truce, the Brotherhood just helps the NCR patrol the roads.
If you establish an independent New Vegas, they do reclaim or steal technology from travellers. Which really bugs me, because I don't think that really matches their lore at all. I suppose it could be because House tried to kill them without any warning or negotiation. So they might feel like the Independent Vegas isn't trustworthy enough for high technology.
So, what to expect from the Boston Brotherhood... 6 years after New Vegas, 10 years after Fallout 3. The East Coast Brotherhood is almost naively kind and generous, so why would they be enemies in the teaser? The Brotherhood Outcasts. Chased out of the Capital Wasteland, they supposedly were headed back to the West Coast. But it'd make more sense for them to head up to MIT. They'd make great villains, with their open disdain for non-members and their hoarded technology... And basically being a corrupted Brotherhood, lacking empathy.
Their numbers were low, but maybe refugees from California have arrived. That'd add some moral depth, since the NCR was literally hunting down and killing all Brotherhood members they could find. The refugees would have a reason to be xenophobic (something the Outcasts kinda lacked, they were just "Hurr we're the best so we should have everything").
Hopefully it's possible to negotiate a peace, at least in the late game. The Capital Wasteland Brotherhood would want to help with that.
Post by: Nick K on November 06, 2015, 12:23:33 pm
Post by: Pancaek on November 06, 2015, 12:26:04 pm
Post by: Aseaheru on November 06, 2015, 01:25:47 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 06, 2015, 01:34:39 pm
Well, now Im pissed at Amazon. Preorder the darn thing months ago, find out that we are getting our copy about a week after release.cancel your preorder then...
Post by: Flying Dice on November 06, 2015, 01:41:10 pm
Got my own GMG codes. They've got a 20% coupon until the 9th: SAVE20-NOVEMB-GAMING
Not sure if it works for FO4 though.
Post by: Teneb on November 06, 2015, 01:55:16 pm
The East Coast Brotherhood is almost naively kind and generous, so why would they be enemies in the teaser?Keep in mind that the east coast brotherhood was quite prejudiced (they shot ghouls on sight, feral or not) and that the plot seems to revolve around synths. They might be openly hostile to synths (and to the Institute too, since the Brotherhood wants to control technology, good intentions or not).
Post by: JimboM12 on November 06, 2015, 02:13:40 pm
Post by: DoomOnion on November 06, 2015, 02:16:30 pm
The East Coast Brotherhood is almost naively kind and generous, so why would they be enemies in the teaser?Keep in mind that the east coast brotherhood was quite prejudiced (they shot ghouls on sight, feral or not) and that the plot seems to revolve around synths. They might be openly hostile to synths (and to the Institute too, since the Brotherhood wants to control technology, good intentions or not).
I think all brotherhood members operate on good intentions, even power-mad ones like Elijah. They just believe they are protecting humanity, even from itself. I believe there's a saying; the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Post by: Virtz on November 06, 2015, 02:21:25 pm
They seemed perfectly nice in Fallout 2 :/ They distribute useful technology to help people, they just try to archive it first. They want to eventually rebuild the world's high-tech infrastructure. In the meantime they try to keep advanced military technology out of the hands of bandits.They don't just give out advanced weapons nor armour, tho. Like they'll sell their trash, but that's it. And they trade the other tech for their own supplies (hence the caravan routes to their base in FO1), not distribute it. They're not selfless stupid. They themselves and their techno-fetishism take priority over the survival of randumbs. In FO1 they were too stingy to do more than clear out the outside of the military base, letting you do all the heavy lifting inside and then in the cathedral. They did even less than that in FO2, with even more emphasis on "go do this for us".
(From what I understand, in Fallout 1 they give you a quest they don't expect you to complete. But when you do, they're happy and make you a member, and the quest was actually very important)
They recruit from locals, too. Mostly in Fallout Tactics, but it's canon that they do it everywhere. Anybody can join the Brotherhood if they're useful enough to research or protect.Going by FO1 and 2, they pretty much only recruit super-humans, capable of taking down dozens of super mutants or enclave single-handed. Heck, you're the first outsider they accept ever in FO1. Meanwhile in FO3 they recruit a bunch of scrubs that all get wasted by a single behemoth. I think I know which Brotherhood would win in a fight.
Post by: XhAPPYSLApX on November 06, 2015, 02:40:08 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 06, 2015, 03:56:23 pm
Now, what I suspect, is that the Brotherhood and possibly the Institute will be...
Right, you know the Stormcloak v. Empire thing in Skyrim? That.
Post by: Teneb on November 06, 2015, 04:31:01 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 06, 2015, 04:32:34 pm
i can't take the waiting oh god
Post by: Fniff on November 06, 2015, 04:36:13 pm
Will it be "This seems alright"? That's 1 to 4 odds. Could it be "This is the worst game ever, someone please kill me to end my undying torment"? That's 1 to 10 odds! Or maybe it'll be "This is the best game ever, Todd Howard have my children"? That's 1 to 50 odds.
Come one, come all!
Post by: Shadowlord on November 06, 2015, 04:45:33 pm
Post by: Aseaheru on November 06, 2015, 04:51:17 pm
Well, now Im pissed at Amazon. Preorder the darn thing months ago, find out that we are getting our copy about a week after release.cancel your preorder then...
Im not the only one who paid for it (One of three people, collective effort) and its the pipboy one... Which may be why its going to take so long.
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 05:07:00 pm
And after New Vegas, where the game was as boring as sin until the DLC, I don't want to go without a seasons pass
THEN AGAIN... Fallout 3 was actually a better game... without the DLC
Post by: Graknorke on November 06, 2015, 05:11:25 pm
In FO3 you're just kind of dumped into the wasteland and told to kind of find your dad I guess?
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 05:25:18 pm
In FO3 you're just kind of dumped into the wasteland and told to kind of find your dad I guess?
Oddly enough to me that was kind of the better goal. You were there to explore until you bumped into the main plot, which you were bound to, and all the side quests until then were very interesting. It actually made exploring very interesting.
New Vegas I was after a guy I didn't really care about and who ultimately didn't matter to the story at all. Yet because there was a main story ALL the side stories absolutely suffered. It made exploring very tedious... Even though every plot was more important then the stupid guy who shot you... Except everyone shoots you. Why is he so special? because he left a calling card? OOooOooooh...
I'll put it this way... I never finished the main storyline to either games, even though I could have at anytime... Because the endings are disappointing no matter what.
Post by: Gabeux on November 06, 2015, 05:30:45 pm
Oh, are we talking about builds?
I'll probably go with a fairly average, normal character to start with before switching to the always-enjoyable 10 STR, 10 END, 1 INT berserker style melee bruiser and tearing a path of unnecessary destruction and hilarious dialogue across the wasteland. We'll just put it down to brain deterioration whilst in stasis or something. *shrug*
The only problem I can see with this plan is low INT making customizing things difficult... we shall see.
You might like the Idiot Savant perk for bonus exp, then:
"You're not stupid! Just... different. Randomly receive 3x XP from any action, and the lower your Intelligence, the greater the chance."
Needs 5 luck, though.
Also, with only 4 STR you can already customize your armor AND your melee weapons, which makes your build completely feasible, and probably fun.
And thanks for the heads-up about Pre-loading, I hadn't even noticed. I'll probably pre-load it on monday, though.
I was planning to play as soon as it unlocks...but I'm pretty sure it will unlock around 2-3AM in my timezone. That sucks. I guess I'll have to wake 6am just for that. :P
Post by: XhAPPYSLApX on November 06, 2015, 05:45:44 pm
Post by: Graknorke on November 06, 2015, 05:49:20 pm
Why is he so special? because he left a calling card? OOooOooooh...Apparently post-apocalyptic delivery firms are very dedicated to providing a good service.
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 05:51:37 pm
Why is he so special? because he left a calling card? OOooOooooh...Apparently post-apocalyptic delivery firms are very dedicated to providing a good service.
Yes I forgot we are playing the ultimate mail man in Fallout NV :P
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 06, 2015, 06:17:19 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 06:41:50 pm
He also took your delivery, and executed you. I'd be pretty pissed about it.
Which he took directly to the person you were delivering it to.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 06, 2015, 06:44:15 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 06:44:55 pm
...No, he kept it for himself...
Right next door.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 06, 2015, 06:46:49 pm
To be honest, I'm surprised he didn't just get Victor to chase down Benny.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 06, 2015, 06:47:48 pm
If only I had preordered. Oh well, uninformed purchases are terrible anyway! :DYou should still be able to preorder via GMG at a ~20% discount, and they've started sending out codes.
i can't take the waiting oh god
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 06, 2015, 06:53:25 pm
He also took your delivery, and executed you. I'd be pretty pissed about it.
Which he took directly to the person you were delivering it to.
...not quite? You do have to get the chip back from Benny. I mean, that's quite an important thing you have to do.
Sure, it's near the delivery location, but if you ordered something online, and your neighbour nicked the package waiting on your driveway, it still isn't in your possession, is it?
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 06:54:57 pm
He also took your delivery, and executed you. I'd be pretty pissed about it.
Which he took directly to the person you were delivering it to.
...not quite? You do have to get the chip back from Benny. I mean, that's quite an important thing you have to do.
Sure, it's near the delivery location, but if you ordered something online, and your neighbour nicked the package waiting on your driveway, it still isn't in your possession, is it?
The Neighbor whom I own the house of and have an army of robots who could take it back at anytime with.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 06, 2015, 06:57:16 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 06, 2015, 07:02:03 pm
Oh, is he going to invade with his army of robots?
Benny has just snapped the chip in half. Or shot it. Or dunked it in his martini.
I guess House isn't getting that upgraded robot army after all, huh?
Post by: Rolan7 on November 06, 2015, 07:07:50 pm
But he did most of the walking :PHe also took your delivery, and executed you. I'd be pretty pissed about it.
Which he took directly to the person you were delivering it to.
...not quite? You do have to get the chip back from Benny. I mean, that's quite an important thing you have to do.
Sure, it's near the delivery location, but if you ordered something online, and your neighbour nicked the package waiting on your driveway, it still isn't in your possession, is it?
(Of course so did you, but that's not his fault, he thought you were dead!)
Forgetting, of course, how easy it was to subvert Yes Man. I expect that's why House wanted someone who had reason to hate Benny and who could be motivated in a straightforward manner.Silly House didn't foresee my character being delightfully crazy.
Of course, then Bennie-sempai had to go and run. Shouldn't have done that...
Post by: Teneb on November 06, 2015, 07:42:51 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 07:46:15 pm
House also explains that he cannot sends his robots after Benny, as that would be seen as an attack against the Strip Families, which would cost him their loyalty and maybe start a riot (and remember that they are his main source of income).
And of course hiring you extremely publically and obviously would be completely inconspicuously.
Then again your character is pretty much a non-entity in these games.
Post by: Teneb on November 06, 2015, 07:50:22 pm
He doesn't exactly hire you publicly. Sure, you talked to him, but no one know what about. As far as the strip cares, you had a grudge against Benny (which you did) or are just some crazed murderer.House also explains that he cannot sends his robots after Benny, as that would be seen as an attack against the Strip Families, which would cost him their loyalty and maybe start a riot (and remember that they are his main source of income).
And of course hiring you extremely publically and obviously would be completely inconspicuously.
Then again your character is pretty much a non-entity in these games.
Neo, don't take this as an offense because I actually respect you, but it seems you dislike the story and are trying to justify it, rather than just... not liking it (which is ok). Because the story is actually competent enough in it's non-Legion parts (due to the quantity of cut stuff about them).
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 06, 2015, 07:53:09 pm
It's Neo, dude.
Neo, don't take this as an offense because I actually respect you, but it seems you dislike the story and are trying to justify it, rather than just... not liking it (which is ok). Because the story is actually competent enough in it's non-Legion parts (due to the quantity of cut stuff about them).
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 08:00:01 pm
It would work in legalese, but frankly why else would House, someone who never talks to anyone, talk to you? I originally thought House couldn't take the chip because he actually couldn't, like the robots couldn't rework their programming like that. But I don't quite think that is a thing. At least I never have found anything that suggested it.
As for disliking the story. I actually don't dislike the story itself (well except Legion but that part was just FLUBBED). I just think that the hook wasn't that engrossing. You go to Vegas more because there isn't anything else for you in the wasteland and it is hyped up to heck (half the gameplay is basically in Vegas itself) then you do to search for that guy who shot you in the brain once.
In fact one of the things I wanted to do the most was to track down my lost memory. Yet... You REALLY never do. Now that would have been interesting but all you really find is what place you worked for.
Though the real reason you can't gain your memories in New Vegas is because it would define your character and thusly you would become an entity instead of the non-entity they were going for. Your kind of like the Lone Gunman who strolls into town, shoots the bad guy, then leaves without a word. Except you talk a lot!
Post by: BigD145 on November 06, 2015, 08:31:46 pm
Post by: XhAPPYSLApX on November 06, 2015, 08:34:35 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 08:37:27 pm
Did anyone else have the ending spoiled, I was going through the steam community hub and saw at least one part of what the ending is gonna be... :( I guess it was partly my fault, as the steam community is full of jackasses...
Naw I've been avoiding real information about this game. I want to be completely surprised.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 06, 2015, 08:39:23 pm
I considered myself to be chasing Benny, though, not New Vegas. I could have settled in Novac, helping the NCR fight the Legion. Heck in my first playthrough I never even went into New Vegas. After getting frustrated by the stupid damage reduction mechanic on these mostly-naked legion punks, I picked up an anti-materiel rifle from the Gun Runners.
When I tried to fire it (like 4 STR) I laughed, admitted that the game had a point, then uninstalled it for a couple years. Never entered the strip. When I came back later and did, it was honestly pretty disappointing. House was awesome, the strip itself was eh. Well-crafted, but just not interesting to me personally.
But nah my reason was never "ooh Vegas, I can go waste some caps". It was hunting down my killer, and the NCR-Brotherhood fight. All the casino stuff put me off.
Post by: Sergius on November 06, 2015, 08:40:46 pm
Amnesia is just fan speculation for many things, but it isn't needed nor stated explicitly.
In most cases, it's a case of the Courier being a blank slate that the player can fill with whatever they please. Like, how he can tell the New Reno singer that he remembers him, or not (this literally means that the player decides whether he knew him or not). Most players mistake that for "well the bullet gave him amnesia".
This is different from Fallout 3 where they outright tell you your past, who your family is, etc.
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 08:44:47 pm
I didn't mind being (mostly) a Elder Scrolls-style blank slate.
I actually don't mind in most cases. But Fallout New Vegas sure does make the fact that you probably had a life before the tragic event apparent. you could have had a pregnant wife, pregnant kids, and a pregnant dog all waiting for you to come home after work.
You could have had a sick aunt dying of cancer needing those last few bottlecaps to pay for that life saving surgery she needed.
It was like that bullet was some sort of background erasing bullet. As soon as it hit you, your entire history was erased.
At least I was engrossed in the mystery.
Re: NV. The Courier doesn't have amnesia. Even Lonesome Road is explained away as "but for me, it was Tuesday."
Amnesia is just fan speculation for many things, but it isn't needed nor stated explicitly.
Really? But the doctor at the start of New Vegas states this... and the fact that it is outright implied that you have Amnesia is quite apparent.
But fine you don't have Amnesia... You just don't remember anything before you were shot.
Quote
Like, how he can tell the New Reno singer that he remembers him, or not
I figure this is just an outright lie. "Yeah of course I remember you Jim"... "My name is Bob"
I mean it isn't like you volunteer up any information the player wouldn't know. like suddenly going "yes, I remember. You were wearing that dog mask with the little UFO symbol on the forehead".
This is different from Fallout 3 where they outright tell you your past, who your family is, etc.
It would be so nice if they ever remade Fallout 3 (or did a game with a start similar to it) that they made it more open ended. So you kind of determine how your childhood went outside a few scripted events.
Post by: Sergius on November 06, 2015, 08:53:30 pm
The Courier remembers Benny shooting him, right down to what he was wearing, and he remembers he is a Courier and had a parcel to deliver.
You remember everything in your life. But since you created the character, what those events are is up to you. It's just that most people equate "PC asking common knowledge questions" with "PC has amnesia", but nearly every game does that.
Courier's Amnesia can be easily categorized as Fanon disproved by Word of God.
EDIT: BTW, this:
QuoteLike, how he can tell the New Reno singer that he remembers him, or not
I figure this is just an outright lie. "Yeah of course I remember you Jim"... "My name is Bob"
I mean it isn't like you volunteer up any information the player wouldn't know. like suddenly going "yes, I remember. You were wearing that dog mask with the little UFO symbol on the forehead".
Actually, you say "Aren't you that singer from New Reno? I think I saw you play the clubs there" before he can tell you.
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 08:54:56 pm
Courier's Amnesia can be easily categorized as Fanon disproved by Word of God.
So it is a storytelling flub... a rather sizable one.
That would have been patched if the World of God just said "yeah he has Amnesia." or just never said anything.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 06, 2015, 08:55:06 pm
If the Courier doesn't have amnesia, then a *lot* of information should have been in the manual or something. Like the Lonesome Road backstory. Nah, the bullet gave you amnesia.
Well, shit! That's actually really bad storytelling then. There were a lot of things the player should have known, that's actually very immersion-breaking and I'm going to disregard it. Why would he even say that!?
This is different from Fallout 3 where they outright tell you your past, who your family is, etc.Speaking of that, it was hard for me to do evil in Fallout 3. I mean, I'm a 19 year old out of a sheltered vault, with a ridiculously loving father I'm searching for. I'm, what, supposed to take up slave trading? What would he think of me??
I didn't really consider being a bad kid, I'm not sure I could handle that as a player actually :/
Fallout 4's setup sounds a little similar... Though it's also really different, and I could see doing evil in order to reunite with a SO.
Meanwhile my couriers were an apathetic mercenary, a mad scientist yandere, and... An alcoholic brawler woman who joined the Legion. None were exactly "good".
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 08:58:04 pm
Well, shit! That's actually really bad storytelling then. There were a lot of things the player should have known, that's actually very immersion-breaking and I'm going to disregard it. Why would he even say that!?
Yeah I mean... that was rather immensely poorly written. I mean the Legion being evil was just content being left out of the game, so all you got was the one side of the Legion (then again they are Rome... Being good to their own people and terrible to everyone else... fits the mythology). This is, well, they give you every single reason to believe the Courier has Amnesia right down to him not remembering places, having people see if he remembers him, and even sort of nods to his altered state... Yet Word of God came and goes "Nope"
I think I'll have to side with you and ignore the Word of God... out of respect for the Game.
Post by: Sergius on November 06, 2015, 09:00:40 pm
Singling out New Vegas out for this seems misguided to me.
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 09:03:08 pm
Again, 90% of games let you ask things that should be public knowledge. Some even lampshade this calling you stupid for asking such a thing.
Singling out New Vegas out for this seems misguided to me.
Yeah but usually you were a dummy with his heads in the clouds, or your actually more accurately asking for their opinion.
Not someone who was shot in the brain, buried underground with no oxygen, and then healed by a doctor who outright tells you that you might have suffered brain damage.
Post by: Teneb on November 06, 2015, 09:03:25 pm
Really? But the doctor at the start of New Vegas states this... and the fact that it is outright implied that you have Amnesia is quite apparent.The doctor never says the word amnesia or memory loss. He does conduct a test to see if there were any sequels, but unless you pick INT 1 or 2, he'll won't say anything about mental damage.
But fine you don't have Amnesia... You just don't remember anything before you were shot.
It's just that there is no NPC that walks up to you and say "As you know, COURIER, your backstory goes like this..." as is done in quite a few games.
Ninja'd
(then again they are Rome... Being good to their own people and terrible to everyone else... fits the mythology).They are not Rome, though Ceasar hoped to turn them into it with New Vegas as the capital... they are a Roman Legion, as the name states. There is no real civilians in the Legion. There are civilians living in Legion land, but they are not actual members. And roman legions could be pretty harsh to the average legionnaire, with stuff like decimation, or to whomever was in the way (since the only real hope for soldiers to get some money outside what they'd receive at the end of the tour (that had no set duration, by the way) was looting).
Holy shit such ninja arts.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 06, 2015, 09:04:03 pm
Or evil lone wanderer.
Or an evil pretty much anything.
Courier especially, because there are so many fucking douchebags in the Mojave who need their shit beaten in.
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 09:05:47 pm
There is no real civilians in the Legion.
From what I hear there are. They just never got around to adding it to the game.
Post by: Sergius on November 06, 2015, 09:08:18 pm
Post by: Teneb on November 06, 2015, 09:09:40 pm
Like Teneb says, he checks for brain damage when evaluating your Int level. If it is high enough he literally tells you that "maybe them bullets done your brain some good."I should mention that there is some brain damage, which is what kickstarts the whole plot of Old World Blues (you do not turn into an animal after being lobotomized), but amnesia is not it.
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 09:11:17 pm
Like Teneb says, he checks for brain damage when evaluating your Int level. If it is high enough he literally tells you that "maybe them bullets done your brain some good."
You still could have brain damage. He is only checking for more serious forms of brain damage.
Though that might count as "Beyond what a normal person would know about brain damage" I guess. So I might not be being fair to the game.
Post by: Sergius on November 06, 2015, 09:11:34 pm
Like Teneb says, he checks for brain damage when evaluating your Int level. If it is high enough he literally tells you that "maybe them bullets done your brain some good."I should mention that there is some brain damage, which is what kickstarts the whole plot of Old World Blues (you do not turn into an animal after being lobotomized), but amnesia is not it.
There is damage, obviously, since there was a bullet. But not "brain damage" in the sense of your brain working in any diminished capacity. The OWB plot explains that the scar or bullet fragments or whatever messed the scanner that was supposed to lobotomize you. In fact, it's the opposite, it made it Work as Intended for the first time, while the lobotomites are the scanner thing fucking up.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 06, 2015, 09:12:16 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 06, 2015, 09:13:58 pm
Again, 90% of games let you ask things that should be public knowledge. Some even lampshade this calling you stupid for asking such a thing.Because the player has to be told these things, and an info-dump at the beginning is... dissuading, particularly to modern gamers. That's kinda why so many stories, even books and movies, star protagonists with amnesia. It's a trope, but it's also super useful for catching up the players/viewers.
Singling out New Vegas out for this seems misguided to me.
Here they had a perfect excuse for amnesia. In fact I swear the dialogue, at many points, implies that the character doesn't remember things. But nope, pointless word of god. Nah... rejecting that.
Well there are all the slaves...There is no real civilians in the Legion.
From what I hear there are. They just never got around to adding it to the game.
The tribes are off to the east, what we see is just a military camp. For what it's worth, Cassidy sorta indicates that things aren't so bad for traders out there. Which seems to clash with what the Legion ended up being, due to rushed development.
I am physically unable to play an evil courier.I couldn't be too evil in Fallout 2 either because it mostly meant slaughtering useful NPCs. Or working for the crime lords I guess, but they were dicks and I was already good from fighting raiders.
Or evil lone wanderer.
Or an evil pretty much anything.
Courier especially, because there are so many fucking douchebags in the Mojave who need their shit beaten in.
But in NV I was pretty much neutral. I had strong feelings about some of the factions, because they were each interesting in their own ways, and dealt with them appropriately.
(Exception: I held back from slaughtering the Boomers. It's not their fault their air field was so fricken huge to walk across... Also my brother likes them a lot. Even though they're dicks who shelled me.)
(The Khans can screw right off though)
You're kind of really desperately grasping for an excuse here, from what I'm getting. It's fine to just not like the plot...I don't think it's about that anymore, it's just really stupid that a dev would claim the courier doesn't have amnesia. When everything in-game strongly indicates that the courier has amnesia.
Post by: Sergius on November 06, 2015, 09:18:19 pm
I disagree completely about being stupid to reject the "amnesia" justification. I think it breaks that overused mold and just lets you play whatever way you want.
Post by: Teneb on November 06, 2015, 09:19:24 pm
Well there are all the slaves...Hard to know about the tribes, because we have no words on them except for the rants from Ulysses in LR, but slaves don't count since, to a slaving society, they are objects or akin to animals, rather than people.
I don't think it's about that anymore, it's just really stupid that a dev would claim the courier doesn't have amnesia. When everything in-game strongly indicates that the courier has amnesia.I think that's more of a personal thing, because at no point when playing have I thought the Courier might've had amnesia.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 06, 2015, 09:24:59 pm
Sure, it's a common trope, used a lot. But it's so useful that I really don't care.
And in my opinion they're doing the opposite of letting you play what you want. They're giving you a backstory that your *character* knows, but you don't. So it's sorta impossible to roleplay, because at any point a character could recognize you and say "Woah, I thought you hated the NCR!"
Yeah that's an extreme example which doesn't actually happen. But Lonesome Road comes close. It only makes any sense if you don't remember your original trip through the area. The whole point of the DLC is for the Courier to find out that he/she did something horrible. But *supposedly* the courier already knows that! It's... yeah I'm actually mad about this. Not at you, that'd be dumb, just mad at the dev. Again, I'm going to reject it... And I've said enough on the subject.
Well, could be. Maybe the game's vague, and I (and MANY people, to be fair) latched onto it as a clear explanation for various dialogue options.Well there are all the slaves...Hard to know about the tribes, because we have no words on them except for the rants from Ulysses in LR, but slaves don't count since, to a slaving society, they are objects or akin to animals, rather than people.I don't think it's about that anymore, it's just really stupid that a dev would claim the courier doesn't have amnesia. When everything in-game strongly indicates that the courier has amnesia.I think that's more of a personal thing, because at no point when playing have I thought the Courier might've had amnesia.
Personally, I'm going to keep going with amnesia. That doesn't make it canon, but still.
Ugh.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 06, 2015, 09:25:58 pm
Post by: scriver on November 06, 2015, 09:27:08 pm
Post by: Sergius on November 06, 2015, 09:29:17 pm
Yeah that's an extreme example which doesn't actually happen. But Lonesome Road comes close. It only makes any sense if you don't remember your original trip through the area. The whole point of the DLC is for the Courier to find out that he/she did something horrible. But *supposedly* the courier already knows that! It's... yeah I'm actually mad about this. Not at you, that'd be dumb, just mad at the dev. Again, I'm going to reject it... And I've said enough on the subject.
But you can say Lonesome Road has shitty writing and railroading and is an exposition dump (I know a lot of people think this) without deciding that the entire game has "tons of proof" for amnesia, when it really doesn't, unless someone wants to interpret it that way.
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 09:37:31 pm
without deciding that the entire game has "tons of proof" for amnesia, when it really doesn't, unless someone wants to interpret it that way.
Well ultimately all you do in a game is interpret events that are shown to you.
But if you'd like "I" could go through every single piece of "evidence" that tells you that you have Amnesia.
Post by: Teneb on November 06, 2015, 09:39:27 pm
While someone else would refute every single point, which would cause you to refute those in turn. While fun, that would kind of end up nowhere. Alas, such is life under hype.without deciding that the entire game has "tons of proof" for amnesia, when it really doesn't, unless someone wants to interpret it that way.
Well ultimately all you do in a game is interpret events that are shown to you.
But if you'd like "I" could go through every single piece of "evidence" that tells you that you have Amnesia.
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 09:40:21 pm
While someone else would refute every single point, which would cause you to refute those in turn. While fun, that would kind of end up nowhere. Alas, such is life under hype.
What is there to refute? I will only state events. Interpret them as you'd like.
Post by: Sergius on November 06, 2015, 09:42:35 pm
Well ultimately all you do in a game is interpret events that are shown to you.
You can interpret events as are shown to you and arrive at a conclusion. Or you can start with a premise, and make the evidence point towards it. That's why I said "wanting to interpret it that way".
EDIT: If you want, state some events. But I recommend keeping the list short and sticking to it or it will never end.
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 09:44:10 pm
Well ultimately all you do in a game is interpret events that are shown to you.
You can interpret events as are shown to you and arrive at a conclusion. Or you can start with a premise, and make the evidence point towards it. That's why I said "wanting to interpret it that way".
Yes yes, your back handed way of dismissing my opinion. But either way there is a lot in the game to suggest you have Amnesia.
Post by: Sergius on November 06, 2015, 09:45:45 pm
Well ultimately all you do in a game is interpret events that are shown to you.
You can interpret events as are shown to you and arrive at a conclusion. Or you can start with a premise, and make the evidence point towards it. That's why I said "wanting to interpret it that way".
Yes yes, your back handed way of dismissing my opinion. But either way there is a lot in the game to suggest you have Amnesia.
Neo, every post you make is you dismissing the opinion that the game doesn't suck or that the writing is not terrible. I don't know why you take offense at this.
EDIT: Since this seems to have struck a nerve I'm just going to drop it.
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 09:59:13 pm
It's Neo, dude.
That might be why I am so tender right now xD
It certainly made me quite depressed. So I'll apologize and drop the subject.
---
If there is one thing I don't like about Fallout 4, but it isn't an actual fault of the game, it is that some of the attribute abilities are so good that I kind of wish I could have more of them. I feel so naked without them.
I want it all!
Post by: Shadowlord on November 06, 2015, 10:21:51 pm
If you weren't asking those questions, and were treating people like you recognized some of them, and the dialog supported that, then hey! Your character didn't sound like an amnesiac.
So... it's really up to the player.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 06, 2015, 10:26:40 pm
I guess maybe the dev is just saying that *canonically* there was no amnesia. In my playthroughs there was. Much like, of all the things we can do in each game, one of them inevitably becomes the canon ending.
Post by: BFEL on November 06, 2015, 10:43:38 pm
Much like, of all the things we can do in each game, one of them inevitably becomes the canon ending.Tell that to Daggerfall :P
Post by: Rolan7 on November 06, 2015, 10:45:42 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 10:50:57 pm
Haha, yes, it's wonderful how that clusterflick appeared in lore.
And Morrowind. So far it seems whenever there are multiple endings the canon ending is all of them!
The universe functions via narrative causality.
Post by: Putnam on November 06, 2015, 10:55:04 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 06, 2015, 11:05:58 pm
Morrowind went for the "vague" route. Oblivion went for the "no conflicts" route. Skyrim will probably go for the "irrelevant" route.
I honestly thought Skyrim's plot would matter more... But it took the strange route of making it not matter.
It is like the opposite of New Vegas where what you see seems to not matter, but eventually they tell you exactly how it will somehow completely transform the fallout universe.
Post by: Vendayn on November 06, 2015, 11:13:07 pm
i liked oblivion vastly more than skyrim, but skyrim modded was better than oblivion modded
Post by: Shadowlord on November 06, 2015, 11:28:49 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on November 07, 2015, 12:08:10 am
Post by: Ultimuh on November 07, 2015, 12:09:20 am
Post by: JimboM12 on November 07, 2015, 12:09:34 am
Now, with Fallout I can comfortably say; I feel the exact same. Each game was it's own experience and I can't bring myself to put one on a pedestal. Fallout 4, even if it makes me have wet dreams, will not change that.
tl;dr, I'm a very content gamer.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 07, 2015, 12:23:15 am
Post by: Ultimuh on November 07, 2015, 12:24:33 am
A lot of sequels are hard to distinguish from expansion packs.
Suddenly, COD comes to mind.
However I have no right to judge really, since I have not even played any of the games in that franchise. :p
Post by: Yoink on November 07, 2015, 12:32:21 am
It's not like it gives you any of your backstory, after all. Much more sensible just to be amnesiac in that case, and you just got capped in the head so that's pretty understandable. One can only imagine the Lonesome Road business was either confusing as fuck or quite therapeutic for the courier.
Post by: BFEL on November 07, 2015, 01:13:06 am
Morrowind went for the "vague" route. Oblivion went for the "no conflicts" route. Skyrim will probably go for the "irrelevant" route.
Am I the only one who thinks the most significant event in Skyrim wasn't the Dragons or War, but the Black Star?
I mean think about it. This is the first time ANY mortal magic has touched the level of shit the daedra have.
The Black Star is basically the mortal races putting their dicks into the pot of the gods, swirling it around and finishing with "come at me bro"
Post by: Putnam on November 07, 2015, 01:15:05 am
and vivec was never heard from again, true story
Post by: Lightningfalcon on November 07, 2015, 01:24:24 am
Post by: Krevsin on November 07, 2015, 01:37:14 am
That's like what, 5th time on this thread?
Post by: Shadowlord on November 07, 2015, 01:47:42 am
Post by: Egan_BW on November 07, 2015, 02:20:16 am
this is my actual opinion
Post by: Krevsin on November 07, 2015, 02:37:33 am
Don't complain, just say "All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again." ;)No, I am just gathering data for my thesis, titled "The Effects of FO4 Hype Train on Internet Discussion". :P
Post by: Majestic7 on November 07, 2015, 03:41:53 am
Post by: Neonivek on November 07, 2015, 03:56:29 am
Wait, did you have an argument about the merits of NV again?
That's like what, 5th time on this thread?
It is almost like we love the entire series including New Vegas or something.
Post by: RoguelikeRazuka on November 07, 2015, 04:07:40 am
Post by: Flying Dice on November 07, 2015, 04:51:30 am
So am I the only one passing on this till there is a serious discount? I expect FO4 to be beautiful but hollow like most Bethesda games. The simplified dialogue system has me the most worried to be honest, considering how shitty writing Bethesda always does anyway.The 20/22% off deals on GMG are better than anything you're likely to see until Summer 2017, I'd say.
Post by: miauw62 on November 07, 2015, 06:16:17 am
this, pretty muchSo am I the only one passing on this till there is a serious discount? I expect FO4 to be beautiful but hollow like most Bethesda games. The simplified dialogue system has me the most worried to be honest, considering how shitty writing Bethesda always does anyway.The 20/22% off deals on GMG are better than anything you're likely to see until Summer 2017, I'd say.
Preordered on the torrentmarket, waiting for preloading.boo
Post by: Krevsin on November 07, 2015, 06:19:11 am
I know, it's scary.Wait, did you have an argument about the merits of NV again?
That's like what, 5th time on this thread?
It is almost like we love the entire series including New Vegas or something.
My personal favourite always has and always will be the Fallout 1 demo. ;)
Post by: Neonivek on November 07, 2015, 06:46:44 am
Fallout 2, for example, is the one I think is the best made in terms of how things go together and creating what felt like a living world. Yet it probably has just about the worst plotline... and I will even contend that it was worse then Fallout 3s.
Fallout 1, however, has the best main story and frankly... the only one I think that gets a personal pass by me. Yet was kind of clunky and unpolished.
Fallout 3 outright had the best encounter system in the series (if you didn't have DLC... which broke it), but it had way too much of an excuse plot and relied on a lot of prior knowledge of fallout to function. Plus it also made many of the weapons feel unique and interesting, often having abilities and uses that you had to experiment to discover.
New Vegas had the best DLC of all the Fallouts and is the highlight to the extreme. Mini pockets of fun. Otherwise the game didn't do anything better then the previous fallout, but it didn't do anything as bad. The DLC fixes the "side plots are weak" issue.
Post by: scriver on November 07, 2015, 07:33:59 am
So am I the only one passing on this till there is a serious discount? I expect FO4 to be beautiful but hollow like most Bethesda games. The simplified dialogue system has me the most worried to be honest, considering how shitty writing Bethesda always does anyway.
Of course not, I am too. Then again, I'm also passing on it until I get a computer that can run it.
On the upside, it has also helped me overcoming the urge to preorder the game. Then again it has also made me look a lot at new computers lately.
They are all a mixed bag for me.
Fallout 2, for example, is the one I think is the best made in terms of how things go together and creating what felt like a living world. Yet it probably has just about the worst plotline... and I will even contend that it was worse then Fallout 3s.
Which is very strange of you given that F3 was just F2's plot regurgitated into a more nonsensical form.
Post by: Gabeux on November 07, 2015, 07:37:40 am
Then I couldn't sleep anymore, and I have an annoying english test today. AND IT'S SATURDAY.
Please, people, calm your hype down. It's affecting the global collective unconscious or something. :P
Post by: Bastus on November 07, 2015, 08:06:56 am
And may I ask are the Perks in Fallout 4 as "uninspired" as in Falout 3, because if ou ask me most of them were freaking boring.
Even Skyrim's Perks were more interresting and they weren't great for the most part as well.
Post by: Neonivek on November 07, 2015, 08:13:00 am
Which is very strange of you given that F3 was just F2's plot regurgitated into a more nonsensical form.
Yeah but at least Fallout 3 was nice enough not to throw it in your face. It didn't have the big bad going "Neener neener neener" at you.
Or rather... Fallout 2's plot was more in your face bad then Fallout 3s and was much worse paced. While Fallout 3 is just a nonsense excuse plot that tries to copy Fallout 2 but never realized that what people liked about Fallout 2 was how it let you play the game the way you wanted to, without being beholden to the pacing of the first game.
Post by: Ultimuh on November 07, 2015, 08:24:48 am
Which is very strange of you given that F3 was just F2's plot regurgitated into a more nonsensical form.
Yeah but at least Fallout 3 was nice enough not to throw it in your face. It didn't have the big bad going "Neener neener neener" at you.
Or rather... Fallout 2's plot was more in your face bad then Fallout 3s and was much worse paced. While Fallout 3 is just a nonsense excuse plot that tries to copy Fallout 2 but never realized that what people liked about Fallout 2 was how it let you play the game the way you wanted to, without being beholden to the pacing of the first game.
I wonder how much freedom Fallout 4 will have.
I would guess some because of the "build settlements" thing it seems to have going.
But I guess we can only wait and see.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on November 07, 2015, 08:25:35 am
Post by: Neonivek on November 07, 2015, 08:34:08 am
I wonder how much freedom Fallout 4 will have.
I would guess some because of the "build settlements" thing it seems to have going.
But I guess we can only wait and see.
Honestly... I am not too optimistic. The modern series is an entirely different game then the classics of 1 and 2, and they don't even attempt to touch the original.
Post by: DoomOnion on November 07, 2015, 08:36:10 am
they were railed as much as classic RPG goes.
They just guide the player so poorly that you have the illusion of freedom.
I think fallout 4 will be pretty sandboxy, given how roleplaying games tend to be these days.
Post by: Neonivek on November 07, 2015, 08:40:52 am
As if the originals had much 'freedom'
Much more then most games today and Fallout 3 and NV. There was quite a few things you could alter and reputations you could earn that would come back to haunt you in surprising ways. Plus there were quite a few ways you could approach a situation.
It was what the classics were trying to go towards.
I think fallout 4 will be pretty sandboxy, given how roleplaying games tend to be these days.
Sandboxy but insignificant. At least that is what I am going to guess.
Think becoming the archmage of the mages guild sort of deal.
Post by: Virtz on November 07, 2015, 08:47:24 am
As if the originals had much 'freedom'You could kill anyone besides the Overseer in 1 (and that you could still do at the very end of the game). Boom. More freedom than anything Bethesda ever did and most RPGs out there.
they were railed as much as classic RPG goes.
They just guide the player so poorly that you have the illusion of freedom.
I think fallout 4 will be pretty sandboxy, given how roleplaying games tend to be these days.
I wish Bethesda would just ditch essential NPCs.
Post by: Neonivek on November 07, 2015, 08:58:03 am
I wish Bethesda would just ditch essential NPCs.
And refine their script writing abilities?
That is like asking Bioware to start writing believable dialog.
Now let me tell you my life story for no reason.
Post by: DoomOnion on November 07, 2015, 09:10:57 am
Post by: Teneb on November 07, 2015, 09:12:40 am
I wish Bethesda would just ditch essential NPCs.No. The reason essential npcs are needed was shown with Dawnguard for Skyrim. Without setting everyone as essential, or a mod that makes NPCs run inside, vampire attacks pretty quickly depopulate cities, breaking quests and shops and being annoying in general.
Unless you are playing on console, if you really want to kill an npc you can just open the command... console and make them not essential, I guess.
Post by: Neonivek on November 07, 2015, 09:13:58 am
I wish Bethesda would just ditch essential NPCs.No. The reason essential npcs are needed was shown with Dawnguard for Skyrim. Without setting everyone as essential, or a mod that makes NPCs run inside, vampire attacks pretty quickly depopulate cities, breaking quests and shops and being annoying in general.
Unless you are playing on console, if you really want to kill an npc you can just open the command... console and make them not essential, I guess.
In otherwords, you need essential NPCs because game developers are incompetent.
Post by: DoomOnion on November 07, 2015, 09:16:25 am
Post by: Neonivek on November 07, 2015, 09:18:17 am
What? No! Would you rather have them spend a 4 billion budget on every foreseeable outcome coming out of random encounters and things in game, as opposed to actually spending their budget on better places?
Ohhh... I don't know if I should comment on this one... but unintentional or not... this is kind of the funniest thing I read this week. I kind of wish you did it on purpose.
Post by: DoomOnion on November 07, 2015, 09:20:03 am
What? No! Would you rather have them spend a 4 billion budget on every foreseeable outcome coming out of random encounters and things in game, as opposed to actually spending their budget on better places?
Ohhh... I don't know if I should comment on this one... but unintentional or not... this is kind of the funniest thing I read this week. I kind of wish you did it on purpose.
Neonivek, that was uncalled for. You don't just laugh at someone's face like that. I just said my honest opinion, and everyone's entitled to have one, no?
If you truly feel that way, I feel very sorry for you and everyone around you, and I must tell you that you are a rude shit.
Post by: Neonivek on November 07, 2015, 09:21:16 am
Neonivek, that was uncalled for. You don't just laugh at someone's face like that. I just said my honest opinion, and everyone's entitled to have one, no?
Ohh I wasn't laughing at your opinion. I was laughing at the way you phrased it because it actually formulates a good joke.
Specifically
as opposed to actually spending their budget on better places?
Yeah I sure wish they would spend their budget on better places.
I just thought the humor was more self-evident. I was hesitant because I was worried that pointing attention to a joke you made unintentionally, would be unappreciated given it goes against the spirit of what you wrote.
I must tell you that you are a rude shit.
It is one of those things that when I try to think about why "I" do it. I realize that it is because everyone else does it to me. Meaning it is a natural thing to do.
Post by: scriver on November 07, 2015, 10:06:45 am
Which is very strange of you given that F3 was just F2's plot regurgitated into a more nonsensical form.
Yeah but at least Fallout 3 was nice enough not to throw it in your face. It didn't have the big bad going "Neener neener neener" at you.
Or rather... Fallout 2's plot was more in your face bad then Fallout 3s and was much worse paced. While Fallout 3 is just a nonsense excuse plot that tries to copy Fallout 2 but never realized that what people liked about Fallout 2 was how it let you play the game the way you wanted to, without being beholden to the pacing of the first game.
I don't see how F3's plot was any less in your face than any of the other games, and definitely not worse than F2's.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 07, 2015, 10:20:31 am
F3's plot isn't worse than F3's?Which is very strange of you given that F3 was just F2's plot regurgitated into a more nonsensical form.
Yeah but at least Fallout 3 was nice enough not to throw it in your face. It didn't have the big bad going "Neener neener neener" at you.
Or rather... Fallout 2's plot was more in your face bad then Fallout 3s and was much worse paced. While Fallout 3 is just a nonsense excuse plot that tries to copy Fallout 2 but never realized that what people liked about Fallout 2 was how it let you play the game the way you wanted to, without being beholden to the pacing of the first game.
I don't see how F3's plot was any less in your face than any of the other games, and definitely not worse than F3's.
Post by: Virtz on November 07, 2015, 10:22:59 am
I still don't see how that's different from games these days. You could still do all of that in modern fallout games, hell, only the main quest crucial characters are essential. You kill someone, and you fail a ton of quests. I honestly feel like you are speaking from nostalgia.They'll give anyone an essential tag, tho. Worse in TES than the new Fallouts, but still not great. Part of a guild you can join? Essential. Some random bumpkin it turns out you have to speak to in a guild or main quest? Essential. Child? Essential. Guy that exists only to say something during a cutscene? Essential. And so on.
In Fallout 1 and 2, the only people "essential" were the people of the settlement you were trying to save, and even then you could still kill them (you did get a game over once you were done since you had just destroyed your character's reason for doing anything, tho). Nobody in Necropolis was essential because you'd be speaking to them about taking their waterchip. Nobody among the super mutants was essential because talking to them would help explain things. The Master wasn't essential before you spoke to him or even knew what's going on. Nobody in the BoS was essential because you'd be asking them for help with the super mutants. Nobody in the Enclave was essential till they explained their big evil plan.
They hired people like Tony Jay, Richard Dean Anderson, and Michael Dorn for voice talent in those games, and you could still kill their characters before they uttered a word, or never even end up meeting them. Nothing was forced on you.
In the first two Fallouts, you could make a beeline for the main story end points and finish the game in under 20 minutes if you knew how to circumvent not being leveled. Didn't have to talk to anyone, just run in and murder before questions could be asked. Something like that was also in Morrowind as well, but no longer in Oblivion, Skyrim, nor the newer Fallouts.
There's less freedom in the newer Bethesda games than there was in the old Fallouts. And this ain't nostalgia.
Post by: scriver on November 07, 2015, 10:29:34 am
F3's plot isn't worse than F3's?Which is very strange of you given that F3 was just F2's plot regurgitated into a more nonsensical form.
Yeah but at least Fallout 3 was nice enough not to throw it in your face. It didn't have the big bad going "Neener neener neener" at you.
Or rather... Fallout 2's plot was more in your face bad then Fallout 3s and was much worse paced. While Fallout 3 is just a nonsense excuse plot that tries to copy Fallout 2 but never realized that what people liked about Fallout 2 was how it let you play the game the way you wanted to, without being beholden to the pacing of the first game.
I don't see how F3's plot was any less in your face than any of the other games, and definitely not worse than F3's.
Do you disagree with that statement? :P
Technical correctness aside, I meant F2 in the second one. Thamks for noticing.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 07, 2015, 10:30:50 am
Technically speaking, I really suppose I can't disagree with that, no. :PF3's plot isn't worse than F3's?Which is very strange of you given that F3 was just F2's plot regurgitated into a more nonsensical form.
Yeah but at least Fallout 3 was nice enough not to throw it in your face. It didn't have the big bad going "Neener neener neener" at you.
Or rather... Fallout 2's plot was more in your face bad then Fallout 3s and was much worse paced. While Fallout 3 is just a nonsense excuse plot that tries to copy Fallout 2 but never realized that what people liked about Fallout 2 was how it let you play the game the way you wanted to, without being beholden to the pacing of the first game.
I don't see how F3's plot was any less in your face than any of the other games, and definitely not worse than F3's.
Do you disagree with that statement? :P
Technical correctness aside, I meant F2 in the second one. Thamks for noticing.
Post by: XhAPPYSLApX on November 07, 2015, 11:27:29 am
I love the original Fallouts for the dialogue.
And I love the modern ones for their gameplay and mechanics. (When they don't bug out :D)
Love all of the Elder Scrolls besides Arena, which is a terrible game in my opinion.
I personally don't get all the hate towards Bethesda, they make games this big and awesome with only a little over 100 people, whereas EA games have around 600-700 working on a game, and it still churns out big steaming piles of shit.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 07, 2015, 11:56:03 am
I still don't see how that's different from games these days. You could still do all of that in modern fallout games, hell, only the main quest crucial characters are essential. You kill someone, and you fail a ton of quests. I honestly feel like you are speaking from nostalgia.They'll give anyone an essential tag, tho. Worse in TES than the new Fallouts, but still not great. Part of a guild you can join? Essential. Some random bumpkin it turns out you have to speak to in a guild or main quest? Essential. Child? Essential. Guy that exists only to say something during a cutscene? Essential. And so on.
In Fallout 1 and 2, the only people "essential" were the people of the settlement you were trying to save, and even then you could still kill them (you did get a game over once you were done since you had just destroyed your character's reason for doing anything, tho). Nobody in Necropolis was essential because you'd be speaking to them about taking their waterchip. Nobody among the super mutants was essential because talking to them would help explain things. The Master wasn't essential before you spoke to him or even knew what's going on. Nobody in the BoS was essential because you'd be asking them for help with the super mutants. Nobody in the Enclave was essential till they explained their big evil plan.
They hired people like Tony Jay, Richard Dean Anderson, and Michael Dorn for voice talent in those games, and you could still kill their characters before they uttered a word, or never even end up meeting them. Nothing was forced on you.
In the first two Fallouts, you could make a beeline for the main story end points and finish the game in under 20 minutes if you knew how to circumvent not being leveled. Didn't have to talk to anyone, just run in and murder before questions could be asked. Something like that was also in Morrowind as well, but no longer in Oblivion, Skyrim, nor the newer Fallouts.
There's less freedom in the newer Bethesda games than there was in the old Fallouts. And this ain't nostalgia.
This is all very true, and I do wish the newer games could be speed-run... Also that fast travel (not fast-travel) was possible in Oblivion and Skyrim like it is in Morrowind.
In Morrowind though, you get a notification whenever the main quest is rendered unwinnable by an NPCs death. The implication is that the player would then reload (but it's great that you don't have to, if you don't care about the quest). Essential NPCs are pretty much an evolution of that concept.
I would want to reload any time Martin died (on my first playthrough, anyway). And just imagine trying to escort that bookworm through Tamriel if he wasn't invincible. Could be fun for some, but sounds frustrating to me... Partially because the wilderness is much more dangerous than it has any right to be, to provide the player with challenge. Lore-wise Martin ought to be able to make the trips fine, lots of people do. In the game he'll be waylaid by multiple groups of bandits, maybe some vampires, and Akatosh help him if he strays off the road and into the Bear Forests. (Also the bandits might be in daedric armor)
Oops, rambling. In short, I don't want quests to fail because NPCs get themselves killed. I usually don't want them to fail even because I accidentally killed someone important. If I do want a playthrough like that, I'm sure there are mods to remove the Essential flags appropriately.
Post by: Virtz on November 07, 2015, 12:24:50 pm
Making NPCs essential is a deevolution to the Daggerfall/Arena days when all NPCs that mattered in any way were animated GIFs you couldn't even attack.
Post by: MorleyDev on November 07, 2015, 12:45:07 pm
Making NPCs essential is a deevolution to the Daggerfall/Arena days when all NPCs that mattered in any way were animated GIFs you couldn't even attack.
"With this character's death, the thread of prophecy is severed. Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed world you have created."? :P
Post by: Shadowlord on November 07, 2015, 02:04:39 pm
(Whereas in Skyrim assassinating Ulfric is right out)
Post by: Graknorke on November 07, 2015, 02:32:39 pm
(Whereas in Skyrim assassinating Ulfric is right out)I played NV before Skyrim and this really disappointed me. Ulfric was such a massive tosser to your face, but you can't do anything easy and gratifying about it.
Post by: Cheedows on November 07, 2015, 02:33:47 pm
Post by: SealyStar on November 07, 2015, 03:21:12 pm
But killing Caesar was the biggest disappointment I had in NV (I loved it regardless though) since basically no one gives a rat's ass that you actually killed him. But I guess it goes along the line of no one caring that you're the Dragonborn in Skyrim.Heh, same. I did like some of the NPC throwaway lines about Caesar's death but it bothered me that it didn't affect anything.
Actually killing him, though, was probably the toughest puzzle that NV through at me, with the number of overpowered goons crammed into such a small space. I also went for the challenge of killing him with a knife, so I had to gun down all the goons first to do it safely. Then I posed his body in his throne again and apparently no one ever went back into the tent to clear it out.
Post by: Gabeux on November 07, 2015, 04:28:37 pm
(Whereas in Skyrim assassinating Ulfric is right out)I played NV before Skyrim and this really disappointed me. Ulfric was such a massive tosser to your face, but you can't do anything easy and gratifying about it.
All I wanted in Skyrim was to subdue the Empire using the Stormcloaks, and then murder the bitchy Ulfric.
I'm not knowledgeable about TES lore, but didn't the empire have two or more dragonborn emperors? Why shouldn't the Dovahnkin be free to become emperor instead?
I mean, with that ultra-forged ultra-enchanted daedric set, dual-wielding ultra-forged ultra-enchanted swords that can leech life, it's not like someone can do anything about it.
..but hey, I liked Skyrim (except the final boss was terrible. Such a buildup, such a setting, such a stupid boss).
It's just that, much like in NV, I wouldn't mind killing all the stupid people. Not my fault both sides sound stupid and self-righteous as hell - and both are willing to commit atrocious crimes.
In that scenario, much like in NV, I'd rather take it all for myself and name the remaining players.
But we can't have a single dude taking over the world, can we? It's not like he could shout dragons down from the sky, or take a bullet to the head and wake up with a simple hangover.
I'm typing too much, maybe I should go to sleep.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 07, 2015, 04:32:18 pm
All I wanted in Skyrim was to subdue the Empire using the Stormcloaks, and then murder the bitchy Ulfric.Dang, that's a good point. Particularly since you wouldn't have to murder him - just challenge him to single combat, like he did the previous king. Would be rather appropriate, and everyone present would have to be a hypocrite to oppose you.
I'm not knowledgeable about TES lore, but didn't the empire have two or more dragonborn emperors? Why shouldn't the Dovahnkin be free to become emperor instead?
I mean, with that ultra-forged ultra-enchanted daedric set, dual-wielding ultra-forged ultra-enchanted swords that can leech life, it's not like someone can do anything about it.
Post by: Gabeux on November 07, 2015, 04:37:36 pm
I never understood why Ulfric could be the superman and just challenge the king to a duel, and you couldn't challenge him.
Think about the possibilities. I think Ulfric would become the Tenpenny of Skyrim, with thousands of youtube videos of people murdering him in the most different ways.
I did test the "Become High King of Skyrim" mod, in which I promptly made him a gladiator (prisoner) and got him to fight with Nazeem.
Guess who hasn't been visiting the Cloud District very often?
Spoiler: Answer (click to show/hide)
Post by: Teneb on November 07, 2015, 04:42:10 pm
I never understood why Ulfric could be the superman and just challenge the king to a duel, and you couldn't challenge him.Might be that you actually need to be a landed noble (a jarl, in other words) to challenge the high king.
Post by: Gabeux on November 07, 2015, 04:45:45 pm
I just really think that Ulfric being alive is canon. But if they ever enable us to kill him, I will be happy.
Sometimes I pick a grudge with a fictitious character for the weirdest reasons.
Post by: Putnam on November 07, 2015, 04:59:01 pm
(Whereas in Skyrim assassinating Ulfric is right out)I played NV before Skyrim and this really disappointed me. Ulfric was such a massive tosser to your face, but you can't do anything easy and gratifying about it.
All I wanted in Skyrim was to subdue the Empire using the Stormcloaks, and then murder the bitchy Ulfric.
I'm not knowledgeable about TES lore, but didn't the empire have two or more dragonborn emperors? Why shouldn't the Dovahnkin be free to become emperor instead?
All emperors were Dragonborn.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 07, 2015, 05:04:11 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 07, 2015, 05:14:05 pm
(Whereas in Skyrim assassinating Ulfric is right out)I played NV before Skyrim and this really disappointed me. Ulfric was such a massive tosser to your face, but you can't do anything easy and gratifying about it.
All I wanted in Skyrim was to subdue the Empire using the Stormcloaks, and then murder the bitchy Ulfric.
I'm not knowledgeable about TES lore, but didn't the empire have two or more dragonborn emperors? Why shouldn't the Dovahnkin be free to become emperor instead?
All emperors were Dragonborn.
Not to further derail into Skyrim, but...Except that last emperor, right? The one who comes to Skyrim in that ship?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 07, 2015, 05:33:40 pm
I always wondered how the Dovahkiin was dragonborn...Goddamn furries (scalies?)
Post by: Kot on November 07, 2015, 05:40:06 pm
The Dragonborn Emperor ended with Martin from Oblivion pretty much, all of them past it were regular humans.(Whereas in Skyrim assassinating Ulfric is right out)I played NV before Skyrim and this really disappointed me. Ulfric was such a massive tosser to your face, but you can't do anything easy and gratifying about it.
All I wanted in Skyrim was to subdue the Empire using the Stormcloaks, and then murder the bitchy Ulfric.
I'm not knowledgeable about TES lore, but didn't the empire have two or more dragonborn emperors? Why shouldn't the Dovahnkin be free to become emperor instead?
All emperors were Dragonborn.
Not to further derail into Skyrim, but...Except that last emperor, right? The one who comes to Skyrim in that ship?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Neonivek on November 07, 2015, 06:01:37 pm
The Dragonborn Emperor ended with Martin from Oblivion pretty much, all of them past it were regular humans.
Shall we forget the giant throne?
Post by: Putnam on November 07, 2015, 06:09:34 pm
Post by: Culise on November 07, 2015, 06:11:00 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 07, 2015, 06:11:25 pm
I'm not sure if he's saying the throne has some means of detecting Dragonborn or if he's saying the throne itself is secretly Dragonborn.
More that the throne indicates another non-human ruler.
Post by: Culise on November 07, 2015, 06:12:44 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 07, 2015, 06:18:13 pm
There was a giant emperor? Did he ban the export of mammoth cheese and furs?I'm not sure if he's saying the throne has some means of detecting Dragonborn or if he's saying the throne itself is secretly Dragonborn.
More that the throne indicates another non-human ruler.
(sorry :P)
Post by: Neonivek on November 07, 2015, 06:24:40 pm
Post by: Putnam on November 07, 2015, 06:42:16 pm
I'm not sure if he's saying the throne has some means of detecting Dragonborn or if he's saying the throne itself is secretly Dragonborn.
More that the throne indicates another non-human ruler.
Katariah Septim was a Dunmer.
The giant throne could be for, uh, visiting giants. I remember there being giant furniture in Oblivion, and there's Kirkbride art floating around of Tiber Septim meeting the King of Atmora, whose head was as tall as Tiber.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 07, 2015, 06:46:06 pm
Easy? No. Gratifying? Certainly.(Whereas in Skyrim assassinating Ulfric is right out)I played NV before Skyrim and this really disappointed me. Ulfric was such a massive tosser to your face, but you can't do anything easy and gratifying about it.
I typically played Nords, and I always went Imperial in the Civil War. Where you slowly grind down everything he has accomplished and slaughter his followers singlehandedly. Then, at the final moment of the war, after you've stormed his keep and defeated the last of his people, he asks to die at the hand of the Dragonborn, to entwine his story with yours and be enshrined in legend as the usurper-king who had to be challenged and slain by the greatest hero/ine Skyrim has known since Talos was a man... and you refuse, leaving him to be executed by the Empire.
That was vastly more satisfying than sneaking into his throne room and cutting his throat.
Post by: Rakonas on November 07, 2015, 07:05:05 pm
(Whereas in Skyrim assassinating Ulfric is right out)I played NV before Skyrim and this really disappointed me. Ulfric was such a massive tosser to your face, but you can't do anything easy and gratifying about it.
All I wanted in Skyrim was to subdue the Empire using the Stormcloaks, and then murder the bitchy Ulfric.
I'm not knowledgeable about TES lore, but didn't the empire have two or more dragonborn emperors? Why shouldn't the Dovahnkin be free to become emperor instead?
All emperors were Dragonborn.
All emperors were dragonblood. Only Alessia and Tiber Septim were dragonborn. After Oblivion the emperors were no longer dragonblood.
Post by: Putnam on November 07, 2015, 07:09:03 pm
Post by: BigD145 on November 07, 2015, 07:12:57 pm
:C
:C
Post by: Neonivek on November 07, 2015, 07:15:39 pm
We are now in multiple pages of Elder Scrolls. :C
:C
:C
Because Fallout 4 is going to include a few hints about the next Elder Scrolls game obviously.
Oddly enough I have a sneaking suspicion it will.
Post by: Teneb on November 07, 2015, 07:15:56 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 07, 2015, 07:17:24 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 07, 2015, 07:21:06 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on November 07, 2015, 07:30:55 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 07, 2015, 07:45:51 pm
We'll meet the descendants of Harold (tree guy)... Strange, lizard-like humanoids.
Argonians?
Or maybe Geckos?
Can we talk about synths now? Why is everyone pretending like we're all comfortable with them? Were they in Fallout 1?
I had to watch a video series about Fallout lore because I couldn't make myself play through FO2 completely (because, for some reason, I wanted to play FO2, then FO1, then FO:Tactics). It corrupted two of my saves and the UI was making me insane, so I gave up.
But I just remember a crazy robot army from some of the old games (that I saw on the videos), not synths though.
Then again, I didn't explore FO3 or NV as much as I wanted. I used to get too overwhelmed with a lot of text, so maybe there were references back then.
It's so funny how the way you experience things change as you age.
Post by: Putnam on November 07, 2015, 07:47:15 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 07, 2015, 07:49:24 pm
But hey... maybe MIT does have transistors.
Spoiler: FO4 plot prediction (click to show/hide)
)Post by: Gabeux on November 07, 2015, 07:53:37 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Damn, I'm pretty sure I finished that quest on my first playthrough. Yet I don't remember anything from it. [Except the spread tapes around the wasteland, and that someone from Little Camplight knows stuff about it and points you to a doctor. I got to that point in a recent playthrough.]
Damn be the past me for enjoying the game too much and never paying attention to the lore.
Also, I don't remember exactly when, but I heard from the lore videos that transistors did get invented.
I can't remember if it was after the Great War or on the same year it happened.
Still, by saying this I'm prompting someone else to correct me, which is exactly what I'm aiming for. I'm angry at myself for not knowing/remembering things. ::)
Post by: Neonivek on November 07, 2015, 07:56:07 pm
Then have a developer chime in and say "No, he was never a Synth"
Post by: Gabeux on November 07, 2015, 07:57:39 pm
They gave us a dog Neo. A DOG. My parents didn't give me one. Beth did. Stop poking fun at them.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 07, 2015, 07:58:21 pm
Post by: Rakonas on November 07, 2015, 08:02:40 pm
That's because we need to get to 200 pages before release. That said, are the Mede emperor dragonborn/dragonblood? Because they only appeared after the dragonfires stopped being relevant to the coronation (thanks to Martin).They definitely aren't, that's why the blades stopped being a thing.
My understanding was that they were Dragonborn, but there weren't any dragons, so they couldn't really demonstrate it, aside from the Amulet of Kings only being wearable and working for Dragonborn. (The pact with Alessia was made when she was dying, so changing her blood to make her a dragonborn at that point couldn't have affected any children she would have already had. Plus apparently it contains her soul or something, says a wiki.)
I haven't heard that part about Alessia but her descendants clearly were capable of wearing the amulet of kings and all that. I don't think it makes any sense to say that the unimportant emperors were dragonborn but couldn't demonstrate it. That would mean having several simultaneous dragonborns vying for inheritance. Makes way more sense to say that being the descendant of a dragonborn is what the blood of the dragon means in terms of the amulet of kings stuff. So you needed to be a descendant of a dragonborn to light the dragonfires. After Oblivion the medes weren't so the dragonfires eventually went out.
Post by: Neonivek on November 07, 2015, 08:08:42 pm
y so salty tho
They gave us a dog Neo. A DOG. My parents didn't give me one. Beth did. Stop poking fun at them.
Calling it now the dog is a synthoid!
And that actually makes a LOT of sense when you think about it.
Post by: Gabeux on November 07, 2015, 08:15:29 pm
They gave us a dog Neo. A DOG. My parents didn't give me one. Beth did. Stop poking fun at them.
Calling it now the dog is a synthoid!
And that actually makes a LOT of sense when you think about it.
Can I tell a personal story?
When I was a kid I wanted a puppy really bad when I was around 10. Feeling isolated, parents divorced, I'd never complain so no one would feel my sadness and all that. So I just wanted a puppy to play with. I had one once, but then some fucker stole it (is that how it's called when someone STEALS your god damn pet?)
Then, my brilliant father went ahead and told me he was going to get me one, a month before my birthday. I never felt so much hype in my life. This time I'd keep an eye on him. It was going to be all good again.
My birthday comes. My dad gives me a big box. No movement. Is the puppy dead? My father looks at me expecting to see a big smile.
I open the box, and it's a toy dog. You know, these robotic dog toys from the 90's that responded when you'd pet them, sing songs and try to face you when they hear your voice/noise?
Calling it right now: this game is about my life.
You expect a box of happiness and you get a SYNTHETIC TOY. Fuck you Bethesda.
PS: It does make sense but it doesn't, at the same time. The movements are too perfect. "We have the technology" would be an insanely lame excuse to justify making the dog a bot.
Post by: PTTG?? on November 07, 2015, 09:07:50 pm
There was an interesting secret synth in Fallout 3. From the Institute, even. Pretty sure they weren't in FO 1 or 2, and I was a bit surprised at how human-like he was. Particularly since I don't think Fallout has transistors, just vacuum tubes, which is why a lot of tech is so bulky.
But hey... maybe MIT does have transistors.Spoiler: FO4 plot prediction (click to show/hide)
Calling it now:Spoiler: Main Plot Guessing (click to show/hide)
Called it a long time ago...
Post by: Putnam on November 07, 2015, 09:10:32 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on November 07, 2015, 09:19:38 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 07, 2015, 09:33:21 pm
NO I MEANTI always wondered how the Dovahkiin was dragonborn...Goddamn furries (scalies?)
UH
My point is, I wonder how the last dragonborn came into existence. Like, were they a descendant, or can Akatosh just point at some fucker and go 'YOOOOUUUU'
Post by: Flying Dice on November 07, 2015, 09:40:48 pm
NO I MEANTI always wondered how the Dovahkiin was dragonborn...Goddamn furries (scalies?)
UH
My point is, I wonder how the last dragonborn came into existence. Like, were they a descendant, or can Akatosh just point at some fucker and go 'YOOOOUUUU'
Hey, Akatosh has needs like everyone else. :V
Post by: Gabeux on November 07, 2015, 09:52:38 pm
Fallout 4 needs to be released to purify this Earth.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 07, 2015, 09:57:02 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on November 07, 2015, 09:58:47 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 07, 2015, 10:15:08 pm
Sowwie, Gab. I feel you. :c
Thank you for acknowledging my feelings, King of the Skies which are Starry.
On the topic of the story: I doubt doge will be synthdoge. Bethesda AI is all-natural stupid.
But come on, isn't there any evidence of improvements to the AI?
I mean, didn't you hear when Howard said the NPCs weren't scripted? Or was that about Oblivion? [Okay, I might be pushing this joke too hard since it's a reference to that video someone (maybe you) linked a few pages ago]
I just hope it isn't Dogmeat AI from FO3 level of bad. He seemed incredibly broken to me most of the time.
Today I was wondering if the new perks could affect dialog choices. Like Lady Killer and a few others. Specifically, Attack Dog.
It has 3 ranks: Enables Dogmeat to hold enemy ; Grants chance to cripple limb ; Grants chance to inflict bleeding on enemy.
So if Dogmeat was really smart, and some NPC decides to run from you, the perk would work as a "discipline-level" for Dogmeat - making him useful in quest-related things.
Also, beware Fallout 4 perk page has spoilers regarding companion names. I didn't notice that before when I linked it - that sort of stuff I don't wanna know.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 07, 2015, 10:45:52 pm
Smart money says all they changed was adding a context-sensitive script for the item-pickup and various other companion commands.
Post by: Gabeux on November 07, 2015, 11:09:23 pm
I'll go back to my vault now. At least mine has happy indoctrination procedures (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuQPfVZbMbg).
Post by: DoomOnion on November 07, 2015, 11:21:46 pm
Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgY5kTWxDuI
Enjoy, and try not to fret too much about your smart money.
Post by: umiman on November 08, 2015, 12:04:29 am
I haven't read it yet though.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 08, 2015, 12:20:51 am
No, the animation was freshly made for Fallout 4, with a dog named River as the model. They have a video of it.
Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgY5kTWxDuI
Enjoy, and try not to fret too much about your smart money.
That's what they claimed, yes. But if you watched the leaked footage the in-game animations were either the same ones as in earlier games, or else so close as to make no difference.
If they did actually remake all the dog animations, that just means that whoever was responsible is the same asshole responsible for all the old shitty animations.
Post by: Shadowlord on November 08, 2015, 12:28:28 am
Post by: umiman on November 08, 2015, 12:29:34 am
Fallout 4 livestream.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 08, 2015, 12:29:55 am
Or the leaked video was recorded before they put in the new animations.The leaked video was from a launch copy of the XBone version that some store gave out early as part of an XBone package.
Post by: woosholay on November 08, 2015, 12:32:50 am
Post by: DoomOnion on November 08, 2015, 12:33:18 am
I mean, when I talk to some of you guys, I feel like I have potatoes for my eyes. Just what are you talking about? I don't understand.
Also, please take of your tin-foil hats. Really? 'claimed' to have animated Dogmeat? Do you even realize how insane you sound?
Post by: Shadowlord on November 08, 2015, 12:40:10 am
I do look forward to seeing everyone's reactions on release however. If the story isn't terrible (what are the odds?) maybe I'll watch an LP or something.
Post by: Gabeux on November 08, 2015, 01:07:42 am
I do think the game is definitely over-hyped, because from the start I was thinking "It's more of the same, with a better engine and some mods taken to vanilla - but it's still more of the same."
However, I'm ready to love it for what it is. Unless it's shit. And, again, I don't think we have another Spore in our hands.
I can't take another Spore. That messed me up so much I took that lesson to many areas of real life.
Maybe it's just the insomnia talking. But hey, I really liked that Dogmeat video. Dogeee
Post by: Flying Dice on November 08, 2015, 01:10:42 am
Post by: RoguelikeRazuka on November 08, 2015, 03:23:15 am
"One day remaining before this planet is transformed forever" 8)
Post by: Neonivek on November 08, 2015, 03:37:40 am
Post by: Putnam on November 08, 2015, 03:51:48 am
Post by: Neonivek on November 08, 2015, 04:05:45 am
it's been something like 120-130 years since fallout 1, there's no way there's only one dogmeat
Because there is absolutely nothing that could cause that to happen in the fallout universe. Absolutely nothing!
Hence my theory that it will be revealed that Dogmeat is a synthoid that has actually been alive and active the entire time you were in the bunker (unless it is revealed you are something else)
My previous theory is that Dogmeat somehow is immortal.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 08, 2015, 04:09:42 am
Post by: Putnam on November 08, 2015, 04:11:56 am
unless that was actually mentioned in brotherhood of steel...
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 08, 2015, 04:47:52 am
Post by: Virtz on November 08, 2015, 06:18:35 am
Someone posted a leaked Fallout 4 review and got the cache before it got taken down: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.ibtimes.com/fallout-4-review-dangers-hype-video-2174132Not very positive. Guy says quests are boring, and that NPCs and their dialogues are bland. But then he cites Dragon Age Inquisition as a positive example, so maybe the NPCs are actually just normal people rather than horrendously cringe-inducing caricatures.
I haven't read it yet though.
Although one interesting thing I got out of what he considers "bad":
"The first five to 10 hours after you leave Vault 111 is mostly spent trying not to die at the hands of a random mole rat and on farming side quests to gain enough strength to push through main ones."
Does that mean no more level-scaling? There'll be incentives to level up? Or am I reading too much into it?
also, fo1's dogmeat was vaporized in the cathedral IIRCMilitary base, actually. He's said to have run into one of the force fields that deal energy damage when you walk through them (unless you deactivate them, but dogmeat's AI seemed to ignore the potential harm). And that's a thing that apparently often happened to people trying to keep dogmeat alive throughout their playthrough.
unless that was actually mentioned in brotherhood of steel...
Post by: Flying Dice on November 08, 2015, 06:27:11 am
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 08, 2015, 06:34:44 am
Great.
On the bright side, I'm not missing much considering the story's by Bethesda.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on November 08, 2015, 06:44:35 am
Post by: scriver on November 08, 2015, 07:05:03 am
Someone posted a leaked Fallout 4 review and got the cache before it got taken down: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.ibtimes.com/fallout-4-review-dangers-hype-video-2174132Not very positive. Guy says quests are boring, and that NPCs and their dialogues are bland. But then he cites Dragon Age Inquisition as a positive example, so maybe the NPCs are actually just normal people rather than horrendously cringe-inducing caricatures.
I haven't read it yet though.
I would doubt it. I haven't played Inquisition, but Beth has always delivered story and characters that's a level worse than even Bioware. I wouldn't assume this will have changed with F4.
Quote
Although one interesting thing I got out of what he considers "bad":
"The first five to 10 hours after you leave Vault 111 is mostly spent trying not to die at the hands of a random mole rat and on farming side quests to gain enough strength to push through main ones."
Does that mean no more level-scaling? There'll be incentives to level up? Or am I reading too much into it?
I think it's likely that F4 will have a level-scale/dangerousness of Skyrim-like proportions, so there'll probably be things that you can easily get killed by when you first start out. But still pretty scaled.
(Disclaimer: I thought Skyrim had a pretty good level of level scaling, though, but with very noticeable exceptions)
Sounds like the reviewer is a tasteless casual who should stick to Bioware's VNs.
...Can't tell if sarcasm or not...
I dont get, why people dont like stories from skyrim or oblivion. Only problems with fallout 3 story for me were, that you can only go with brotherhood of steel.There is no stuff like taking part in enclave offensive on bos headquarters, enlisting in enclave and doing cleansings. No alternatives in main story line at all.
Their plots are boring, predictable, and forced. They're childish and inane. They constantly put you in ridiculous situations so they can railroad you down the dumb plot. They don't respond to player/character agency (major sin in an open world RPG), and quests and plot arcs are always disjointed from each other and often pointless and lacking weight or impact. Their characters and dialogue is banal and often nonsensical. They consistently try to evoke some vainglorious epicness but repeatedly fall short because of their inability to set the stakes or otherwise make you emotionally invested in the story or world.
Generally speaking.
Post by: Virtz on November 08, 2015, 07:12:03 am
I would doubt it. I haven't played Inquisition, but Beth has always delivered story and characters that's a level worse than even Bioware. I wouldn't assume this will have changed with F4.I disagree. At least with Bethesda games the source of cringe can usually be shot in the face or at least avoided. With Bioware the ride never ends, cause the source of cringe is your tacked-on companions.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 08, 2015, 07:14:20 am
I dont get, why people dont like stories from skyrim or oblivion. Only problems with fallout 3 story for me were, that you can only go with brotherhood of steel.There is no stuff like taking part in enclave offensive on bos headquarters, enlisting in enclave and doing cleansings. No alternatives in main story line at all.Oblivion: Apart from mangling the setting's lore, the plot itself was also about as cookie-cutter as you can get. The few interesting elements were the role of the player as a background actor rather than The Chosen One as is usual for Bethesda and the lore implications of Martin's sacrifice.
Skyrim: The Civil War plot being as criminally stripped down as the Legion elements of NV, and every character involved being bland or a total tool. Stupidity regarding the Blades and Paarthurnax which had to be modded out. The Thieves' Guild being a two-bit protection racket. The lore around the Dominion's history and high-level goals going totally unilluminated to anyone not already familiar with it.
Neither can I, that guy has a good poker face.Sounds like the reviewer is a tasteless casual who should stick to Bioware's VNs.
...Can't tell if sarcasm or not...
Tasteless: A DA game as a benchmark for nuanced, interesting characters and stories.
Casual: Wants all the shinies right away.
Mass Effect/Dragon Age = VNs: Well what else are they? They're mold-stamped 3D dating sims full of dialogue trees and overblown character archetypes which occasionally require you to make decisions about fighting instead of trying to get laid.
Like, Bethesda RPGs are mediocre and full of bugs and "IT JUST WORKS", but modern Bioware RPGs are by and large total shit.
Post by: Putnam on November 08, 2015, 07:19:04 am
I dont get, why people dont like stories from skyrim or oblivion. Only problems with fallout 3 story for me were, that you can only go with brotherhood of steel.There is no stuff like taking part in enclave offensive on bos headquarters, enlisting in enclave and doing cleansings. No alternatives in main story line at all.Oblivion: Apart from mangling the setting's lore, the plot itself was also about as cookie-cutter as you can get. The few interesting elements were the role of the player as a background actor rather than The Chosen One as is usual for Bethesda and the lore implications of Martin's sacrifice.
i was about to complain about the mention of setting lore mangling, but then i remembered that colovians and nibenese used to be different ethnicities and that the whole CHIM thing in relation to Cyrodiil was pretty much a plot hotfix by kirkbride
Post by: scriver on November 08, 2015, 07:31:51 am
I would doubt it. I haven't played Inquisition, but Beth has always delivered story and characters that's a level worse than even Bioware. I wouldn't assume this will have changed with F4.I disagree. At least with Bethesda games the source of cringe can usually be shot in the face or at least avoided. With Bioware the ride never ends, cause the source of cringe is your tacked-on companions.
I'd say I agree, if by "shot in the face or avoided" you mean never interact with any quest, story, or character in any way and spend your time running around shooting things (but without using stealth, because that immediately reveals Beth's cringeworthy AI) and setting rabbits on fire.
Neither can I, that guy has a good poker face.Sounds like the reviewer is a tasteless casual who should stick to Bioware's VNs.
...Can't tell if sarcasm or not...
Tasteless: A DA game as a benchmark for nuanced, interesting characters and stories.
Casual: Wants all the shinies right away.
Mass Effect/Dragon Age = VNs: Well what else are they? They're mold-stamped 3D dating sims full of dialogue trees and overblown character archetypes which occasionally require you to make decisions about fighting instead of trying to get laid.
Like, Bethesda RPGs are mediocre and full of bugs and "IT JUST WORKS", but modern Bioware RPGs are by and large total shit.
I was mostly thinking about how it should be sarcasm because Bethesda games are pretty much the most glaring case of "casualisation" out there and especially among RPGs. Their Fallout games in particular, actually.
It's also a bit ironic given that from the looks of things Bethesda really, really wants to make F4 more Bioware-/Mass Effect-esque, what with the dumb (and casual) dialogue wheel and the greater focus on characterisation of the PC and all that.
Post by: SharpKris on November 08, 2015, 08:22:38 am
Post by: BFEL on November 08, 2015, 08:31:09 am
I dont get, why people dont like stories from skyrim or oblivion.They're the only parts that can't be efficiently modded out and replaced with something better on every level?
Post by: SharpKris on November 08, 2015, 08:36:49 am
any suggestions on play styles for a "Hill billy" build and a "Strong independent black women" build?
stats/playstyle/preferred wepons
Post by: Teneb on November 08, 2015, 09:07:43 am
Post by: JimboM12 on November 08, 2015, 09:18:42 am
Me and my brother decided we're playing extreme personality builds from the get go.
any suggestions on play styles for a "Hill billy" build and a "Strong independent black women" build?
stats/playstyle/preferred wepons
"Hillbilly" Build: 5 STR, 2 PER, 5 END, 1 CHA, -1 INT, 3 AGI, 5 LCK
Take all booze based buffs. Small guns; mostly pistols and shotguns. Be baffled at any appearance of high technology.
"Strong Independent Black Woman" Build: 4 STR, 4 PER, 3 END, 1 CHA, 3 INT, 6 AGI, 8 LCK
Loudly proclaim your independence from men every chance you get. Turn around and romance the first male companion you find. Small guns only; pistols.
Post by: SharpKris on November 08, 2015, 10:27:04 am
Me and my brother decided we're playing extreme personality builds from the get go.
any suggestions on play styles for a "Hill billy" build and a "Strong independent black women" build?
stats/playstyle/preferred wepons
"Hillbilly" Build: 5 STR, 2 PER, 5 END, 1 CHA, -1 INT, 3 AGI, 5 LCK
Take all booze based buffs. Small guns; mostly pistols and shotguns. Be baffled at any appearance of high technology.
"Strong Independent Black Woman" Build: 4 STR, 4 PER, 3 END, 1 CHA, 3 INT, 6 AGI, 8 LCK
Loudly proclaim your independence from men every chance you get. Turn around and romance the first male companion you find. Small guns only; pistols.
i was thinking more of unarmed power fists for independent black women.
Post by: h3lblad3 on November 08, 2015, 10:37:47 am
"Gunslinger", small guns user, 10 P, 8 to 10 A, rest dumped into L, I, and C. Overpowered in the first Fallout game.
"Gambler", nothing matters but L 10. Likely several points in I, C, and P.
"Manipulator", I 10, C 10, remaining points in P, A, and L. My most often used Fallout build.
Post by: SharpKris on November 08, 2015, 11:38:24 am
high int, high perc, low end, low str,
will do whatever he can to join MIT, be terrified or avoid entirely contact with females and animals. will use laser guns and small pistols exclusively (no heavy weapons)
any more suggestions?
Post by: BigD145 on November 08, 2015, 12:08:21 pm
"MIT nerd" build
high int, high perc, low end, low str,
will do whatever he can to join MIT, be terrified or avoid entirely contact with females and animals. will use laser guns and small pistols exclusively (no heavy weapons)
any more suggestions?
That's more of a Real Genius Lazlo build.
Post by: PTTG?? on November 08, 2015, 01:51:30 pm
Post by: Sartain on November 08, 2015, 02:17:22 pm
where are all those streamers getting their early copies??!
Well the Gamestop I work in has had the game in storage for maybe a week now, so that's one possible explanation. Of course, no-one is allowed to take their game home, but a crafty employee willing to risk his job over a game might figure something out. Or a store manager might decide to bring his copy home early since there's very little control and he'd have to be extremely unlucky to get caught.
Also, reviewers get games from the publishers. Which is also where the linked reviewer got his, as it says at the end of the review.
Post by: Shadowlord on November 08, 2015, 03:34:09 pm
Also, instead of a hill billy, you should play benny hill. Get enemies to chase you and play Yakety Sax while they do so.
Post by: JimboM12 on November 08, 2015, 03:36:16 pm
It wouldn't surprise me if Bethesda was providing some copies to some popular streamers in hopes of building more hype prior to launch.
Also, instead of a hill billy, you should play benny hill. Get enemies to chase you and play Yakety Sax while they do so.
I immediately got an image of a male PC running away from a crippled deathclaw while making 3 Stooges "Nyuk-Nyuk" sounds while throwing grenades over his shoulder.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 08, 2015, 04:18:01 pm
Yeah, like... that was about as blatant a "We have always been at war with Eastasia" sort of retcon that you're likely to see. Especially because the real reason was probably some mix of "but we don't want to have to make all that detail/but almost nobody will be able to render that detail/but nobody will like it because it's different".I dont get, why people dont like stories from skyrim or oblivion. Only problems with fallout 3 story for me were, that you can only go with brotherhood of steel.There is no stuff like taking part in enclave offensive on bos headquarters, enlisting in enclave and doing cleansings. No alternatives in main story line at all.Oblivion: Apart from mangling the setting's lore, the plot itself was also about as cookie-cutter as you can get. The few interesting elements were the role of the player as a background actor rather than The Chosen One as is usual for Bethesda and the lore implications of Martin's sacrifice.
i was about to complain about the mention of setting lore mangling, but then i remembered that colovians and nibenese used to be different ethnicities and that the whole CHIM thing in relation to Cyrodiil was pretty much a plot hotfix by kirkbride
It's to the point where I suspect that if they made TES VI: Black Marsh, they'd turn it into clear freshwater lakes and grassland, make the cities into the same old lumps of clean stone, and retcon out the Hist.
Post by: BFEL on November 08, 2015, 04:44:40 pm
From the streams I've been watching, CHA looks super-OP because those "chance of surrender" perks look more like "100% chance of surrender".
The wasteland is your friend. ALL of it.
Post by: Gabeux on November 08, 2015, 04:47:06 pm
From the streams I've been watching, CHA looks super-OP because those "chance of surrender" perks look more like "100% chance of surrender".
The wasteland is your friend. ALL of it.
Do enemies finally surrender, like for real? I never understood why they can flee from combat and then attack you 5 seconds later in both TES and Fallout.
Would be cool if you could get to surrender and they really never mess with you again. But then the game would have to handle what to do with an unamed random npc that is hostile to every other faction (which should be in the budget, right?).
Post by: Shadowlord on November 08, 2015, 04:57:18 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 08, 2015, 05:01:22 pm
With the new systems in place which props can be easily placed and removed, dynamic camps shouldn't be impossible.
Of course, I always take it too far. But it should be doable. Except it's unnecessary, I guess.
(If I wasn't so lazy, I'd probably make mods)
Post by: Neonivek on November 08, 2015, 05:05:23 pm
Post by: miauw62 on November 08, 2015, 05:16:54 pm
(jk, srsly)
Post by: Gabeux on November 08, 2015, 05:24:00 pm
However, if anyone tried Real Time Settler mod for FO3 / FONV, I don't think it will be too much broader in scope than that. Except for the vanilla-supported code, of course, and working in a non-awkward way. Which, to me, is good enough. And also the Minecraft-Redstone-like computer and electrical systems - I wasn't expecting that at all.
So I don't think it will be too extensive. Then again, I read somewhere that a beta tester was worried people might "exploit it" (the settlements), so maybe my expections are actually too low.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 08, 2015, 05:26:03 pm
We're still 11 pages to go. Don't think we'll reach the goal. Damn leaks.From the streams I've been watching, CHA looks super-OP because those "chance of surrender" perks look more like "100% chance of surrender".
The wasteland is your friend. ALL of it.
Do enemies finally surrender, like for real? I never understood why they can flee from combat and then attack you 5 seconds later in both TES and Fallout.
Would be cool if you could get to surrender and they really never mess with you again. But then the game would have to handle what to do with an unamed random npc that is hostile to every other faction (which should be in the budget, right?).
Basically what happens is this:
1. Point gun.
2. If you have the relevant perk, shout a silly one-liner.
3. Target goes neutral.
4. If you have enough points in the perk, aim at something else and hammily shout "FASTER, PUSSYCAT! KILL, KILL!"
If any survive, then you shoot them. You can also just make them go neutral so that you can line up a headshot.
Post by: Neonivek on November 08, 2015, 05:28:50 pm
And they did EXACTLY that... All 10 level builds are equally super effective. Especially luck which sounds absolutely scary.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 08, 2015, 05:50:51 pm
Post by: Cheedows on November 08, 2015, 06:42:24 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 08, 2015, 06:46:46 pm
Reading comments on Youtube. I think I need a stimpak applied to my brain.
I'll stop reading anything Fallout related outside this forum until next week.
I guess that's what happens when you bring a true PC game to the consoles.
Post by: Dostoevsky on November 08, 2015, 07:02:42 pm
Post by: AlleeCat on November 08, 2015, 07:05:35 pm
"I saw one leaked video and now every game Bethesda has ever made sucks major balls."
"You liked Skyrim? Fucking filthy casual."
"Hey guys look at me, I'm agreeing with everyone! Like meeeee!"
"Oh yeah? I'm disagreeing with everyone! Hate meeeee!"
"I think dogmeat is a robot."
"I think everyone's a robot."
"Bethesda sucks, Bioware sucks, everything sucks."
"You like Bioware? Go back to your fucking anime dating sims, weeb!"
Do you guys even realize how inconsistent you are? You were all praising Bethesda since page one, hyping the game to shit, and then suddenly some footage gets leaked and you're like "Wah! The game isn't completely perfect! I hate everything! Bethesda is Satan incarnate!" *Kicks holes in walls and throws temper tantrum*
Then it's a day before release and you all suddenly switch back to "This game is gonna be so awesome, you guys! Let's pick out builds ahead of time!"
Y'all make me sick. Bay12 usually tries to make itself out to be a bastion of sanity in the midst of the bunch of whiny entitled jerks that make up the general gaming public, but you're all the same.
Games are meant to be fun. If you have fun with a game, it shouldn't matter if there weren't 15 dialogue options for every choice, or a few random graphical bugs. Did you have a good time playing the game? If so, great! If not, the game isn't your cup of tea. Not every game has to appeal to you.
Next time you go complaining and yelling about a game on a whim, but yourself in the shoes of one of the developers. You just poured your heart and soul into this game, and some random assholes on the internet are saying that it's completely terrible because it's not exactly what they thought it was going to be. They're yelling at the development team as a whole for being incompetent when they haven't even played the game yet. How are you going to feel? How is that feeling going to reflect in the next game you work on? Just because AAA developers are run by big corporations, doesn't mean the people who work for them are soulless machines. Think about that next time. Humans aren't perfect.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 08, 2015, 07:09:10 pm
God, the last ten or so pages were hard to read.Who pissed in your cereal this morning?
"I saw one leaked video and now every game Bethesda has ever made sucks major balls."
"You liked Skyrim? Fucking filthy casual."
"Hey guys look at me, I'm agreeing with everyone! Like meeeee!"
"Oh yeah? I'm disagreeing with everyone! Hate meeeee!"
"I think dogmeat is a robot."
"I think everyone's a robot."
"Bethesda sucks, Bioware sucks, everything sucks."
"You like Bioware? Go back to your fucking anime dating sims, weeb!"
Do you guys even realize how inconsistent you are? You were all praising Bethesda since page one, hyping the game to shit, and then suddenly some footage gets leaked and you're like "Wah! The game isn't completely perfect! I hate everything! Bethesda is Satan incarnate!" *Kicks holes in walls and throws temper tantrum*
Then it's a day before release and you all suddenly switch back to "This game is gonna be so awesome, you guys! Let's pick out builds ahead of time!"
Y'all make me sick. Bay12 usually tries to make itself out to be a bastion of sanity in the midst of the bunch of whiny entitled jerks that make up the general gaming public, but you're all the same.
Games are meant to be fun. If you have fun with a game, it shouldn't matter if there weren't 15 dialogue options for every choice, or a few random graphical bugs. Did you have a good time playing the game? If so, great! If not, the game isn't your cup of tea. Not every game has to appeal to you.
Next time you go complaining and yelling about a game on a whim, but yourself in the shoes of one of the developers. You just poured your heart and soul into this game, and some random assholes on the internet are saying that it's completely terrible because it's not exactly what they thought it was going to be. They're yelling at the development team as a whole for being incompetent when they haven't even played the game yet. How are you going to feel? How is that feeling going to reflect in the next game you work on? Just because AAA developers are run by big corporations, doesn't mean the people who work for them are soulless machines. Think about that next time. Humans aren't perfect.
I'm sure the developers are following this thread with tears in their eyes at every post.
Post by: Fniff on November 08, 2015, 07:18:06 pm
Bay12 is inconsistent because it's made up of many groups of people with differing opinions. The people who were bitching about Fallout 4 were bitching on the first page of this thread. It's just that the bitching seems louder because it's much easier to have a discussion based around a conflict ("Bethesda's shit!" "No it isn't!" "Yes it is!") then it is around an agreement ("This game is going to be great!" "Yep, I bet it will be!"). The reason for the switch is that everyone has something to discuss since the game just released.
The issue at the heart of all this "FALLOUT IS RUINED FOREVER" is that a lot of people have the impression that Bethesda is 'dumbing down' Fallout by removing it's trademark complexity. Whether or not that's true, there's a common perception that games that have actual systems of consequence are rarer these days. Again, whether or not that's true, it still affects the discussion.
Ultimately, people are complaining not because they want to hurt the developers, but because they think Fallout is going down a bad path and wants to avert it. This doesn't come from hate, it comes from love of the franchise: if they hated Fallout, they wouldn't care if it shit or went fishing. Unfortunately, it's very easy to slide from constructive criticism to bald insults.
I agree with you that the developer's feelings should be considered; don't go sending death threats and dial down the causticity until you play the actual game. However, just because you poured your heart into something doesn't make it immune from criticism.
Post by: Gabeux on November 08, 2015, 07:22:49 pm
Supposedly bad folks are dumping spoilers into youtube comments and steam discussions, so probably safest to keep off those for the next couple of weeks.
Yep, not "Supposedly", but people are going out of their way to simply go "Hey I just watched a stream of a dude finishing the game and...".
Good thing I'm a ninja when it comes to closing my eyes and pressing CTRL+F4.
I wonder if those people even played any of the Fallout games in the first place.
Here I am wondering if I can craft a continuous-beam weapon and if I could hit anything with that from a vertibird, and people are actually wanting to spend whole days watching streams before launch for some unknown reason.
It's stops being about fun, creativity and games and starts going into a very stupid path that not even usual trolls trail.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 08, 2015, 07:23:50 pm
Bay 12 isn't a hivemind, and people do change their opinion based on what they see... at least, they should, anyway. But there's different people with different opinions in this thread, so of course it's going to flip-flop a bit based on who's posting.
People have a lot of hopes for fallout 4; if they see things that don't look good, they're going to be worried, and depending on their opinions on previous titles perhaps for them it is ruined. And they can say that.
I'm personally reserving judgement until I play it myself.
But to be honest, your own little tantrum there hardly presents you as a beacon of rationality.
Post by: Teneb on November 08, 2015, 07:24:37 pm
But since the topic changed to this, I think that hating the game before its out is silly. Then again, I think going for (and giving) spoilers and such is also quite silly.
Ninja'd by Fniff. (except the game hasn't been released yet)
Holy shit I just want to post this and I can't.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 08, 2015, 07:28:49 pm
--
Unrelated: Hoo boy, yeah. If you don't want spoilers, stay far away from the internet for the next few days.
Watching that stream that was posted the other day, though, suggested that there at least the three major factions (BoS, Institute, Minutemen) are all joinable.
Post by: Fniff on November 08, 2015, 08:33:06 pm
I especially like her interpretation of my crack about Mass Effect and Dragon Age. Like, I'm not the one who said that VNs are bad, bud. Two separate points: ME and DA are basically point-and-click dating sims/dialogue trees; ME and DA are shit.I'd like to remind everyone of our lord and savior's most venerated proverb. Let us abide by it. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c)
Post by: Gabeux on November 08, 2015, 08:48:52 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on November 08, 2015, 09:02:35 pm
This is the internet; that is implied. You don't need to go around appending "IMO" to every statement you make. :PI especially like her interpretation of my crack about Mass Effect and Dragon Age. Like, I'm not the one who said that VNs are bad, bud. Two separate points: ME and DA are basically point-and-click dating sims/dialogue trees; ME and DA are shit.I'd like to remind everyone of our lord and savior's most venerated proverb. Let us abide by it. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c)
Speaking of preload, I envy you if you're just starting it now. Had mine running the download constantly since Saturday night and I'm only at 20.5GB.
At least it's not the shitty Rockstar launcher that constantly crashes, bugs out, and loses chunks of a 60GB download...
Post by: Shadowlord on November 08, 2015, 09:09:48 pm
God, the last ten or so pages were hard to read.
This is like when I read two contradictory "news" articles by two different people and think "GODDAMNIT MEDIA MAKE UP YOUR MINDS!" #joke #hashtag
Post by: Flying Dice on November 08, 2015, 09:18:30 pm
If everybody here genuinely despised Bethesda and their games, they wouldn't be hemming and hawwing about buying them, complaining about bugs, complaining about lies, complaining about &c., or, indeed, talking about them at all. Complaining about the flaws in something is a sign that you pay enough attention to it to notice those flaws and care enough about it to expend effort pointing them out and asking for them to be fixed.
Playing a Bethesda game is like having a best friend with some really obnoxious habits: sure, they annoy the shit out of you, and you bug them about it all the time, but they're still one of your best friends in spite of that.
Post by: Gabeux on November 08, 2015, 09:19:39 pm
Speaking of preload, I envy you if you're just starting it now. Had mine running the download constantly since Saturday night and I'm only at 20.5GB.
At least it's not the shitty Rockstar launcher that constantly crashes, bugs out, and loses chunks of a 60GB download...
But that's due to your internet? Mine is 10MB connection. I have a friend with a 50MB and that annoys me to no end. :P
Then comes someone who lives in japan and laughs.
I shouldn't have watched an analysis of the launch trailer. I didn't notice some materials are destructible in the environment, and that the layered armor system means that shooting on a piece of armor too much may cause it to completely break/fall off.
I am a little bit sad that they don't seem to care about land vehicles. But I just want to vaporize people's armor and have them running naked while Codsworth saw their asses off.
EDIT: Derp.
Playing a Bethesda game is like having a best friend with some really obnoxious habits: sure, they annoy the shit out of you, and you bug them about it all the time, but they're still one of your best friends in spite of that.
Which is why I don't argue about Bethesda games. Most people who talk shit about it probably have two or three times the game time I have on them.
(Unless they are console peasants. Sorry to sound obnoxious, but fuck people who play console, handheld and mobile games and want to criticize games like Skyrim, Mount & Blade or X3:Albion Prelude. I pretend they don't exist.)
Nothing is perfect. Suffering is inherent to life. As long as you're human, nothing will satisfy you through your whole life. And all that.
Post by: DoomOnion on November 08, 2015, 09:24:42 pm
I mean, you can pick it up in store at midnight (if you are lucky), so you could have done that.
Post by: Teneb on November 08, 2015, 09:56:41 pm
Well, the thought of downloading a 30gb game on university bandwidth just makes me want to puke, so I just bought a physical copy.Really? From my experience, university connections tend to be ludicrously fast.
Post by: DoomOnion on November 08, 2015, 09:57:23 pm
Well, the thought of downloading a 30gb game on university bandwidth just makes me want to puke, so I just bought a physical copy.Really? From my experience, university connections tend to be ludicrously fast.
Well, evidently I'm not going to the same university you went to!
Post by: Edmus on November 08, 2015, 10:05:37 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on November 08, 2015, 10:08:08 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on November 08, 2015, 10:17:04 pm
Well, the thought of downloading a 30gb game on university bandwidth just makes me want to puke, so I just bought a physical copy.
I mean, you can pick it up in store at midnight (if you are lucky), so you could have done that.
How many DVDs is that, and does it actually install from them? I ask because I pre-ordered Skyrim on DVD back when that came out, and then the DVD's installer just downloaded it from Steam instead of copying from the DVD. Of course, it turned out to be crashtastic anyways, so I never should've pre-ordered it in the first place. 6-9 months later or so, I ended up borrowing the XBox 360 version and eventually finished that (along with getting all the achievements) - the steam version was still unplayable as far as I could tell. (Works fine now, though! Years and years later. With fan patches.)
Post by: Vendayn on November 08, 2015, 10:22:37 pm
Well, the thought of downloading a 30gb game on university bandwidth just makes me want to puke, so I just bought a physical copy.
I mean, you can pick it up in store at midnight (if you are lucky), so you could have done that.
How many DVDs is that, and does it actually install from them? I ask because I pre-ordered Skyrim on DVD back when that came out, and then the DVD's installer just downloaded it from Steam instead of copying from the DVD. Of course, it turned out to be crashtastic anyways, so I never should've pre-ordered it in the first place. 6-9 months later or so, I ended up borrowing the XBox 360 version and eventually finished that (along with getting all the achievements) - the steam version was still unplayable as far as I could tell. (Works fine now, though! Years and years later. With fan patches.)
yup, you will still be forced to install through steam. won't be any different than skyrim.
Post by: Gabeux on November 08, 2015, 10:32:13 pm
Same guy said it was to prevent piracy, which doesn't make any sense to me.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 08, 2015, 10:40:26 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 08, 2015, 10:52:58 pm
With so many leaks and people breaking NDAs, I wonder if Beth will be so open to the community again?
I was really liking when no info was going around and that they announced it as sort of a surprise, near the release. Then it became the usual post 2010 modus operandi of giving copies and access to people who'll just leak it.
Then again, if this wasn't Fallout I wouldn't be disliking it. Usually the more info is out, the better, so you can decide if you can buy it or not.
In my case, I was going to buy it anyway, so I can pretend I care about NDAs being respected and that leaks are bad for everyone.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 09, 2015, 12:33:28 am
That, and all the streams on streaming sites (as opposed to people streaming on their own sites) were quickly taken down.
Post by: Sergarr on November 09, 2015, 01:33:07 am
What do you mean "I don't like spoilers"? Everyone loves spoilers! They're just too tsundere to admit it ;DSupposedly bad folks are dumping spoilers into youtube comments and steam discussions, so probably safest to keep off those for the next couple of weeks.
Yep, not "Supposedly", but people are going out of their way to simply go "Hey I just watched a stream of a dude finishing the game and...".
Good thing I'm a ninja when it comes to closing my eyes and pressing CTRL+F4.
I wonder if those people even played any of the Fallout games in the first place.
Here I am wondering if I can craft a continuous-beam weapon and if I could hit anything with that from a vertibird, and people are actually wanting to spend whole days watching streams before launch for some unknown reason.
It's stops being about fun, creativity and games and starts going into a very stupid path that not even usual trolls trail.
No but seriously, you think this is something particularly new? Have you forgotten the infamous "Snape kills Dumbledore"?
Post by: miauw62 on November 09, 2015, 02:05:23 am
Post by: Neonivek on November 09, 2015, 02:56:01 am
With so many leaks and people breaking NDAs, I wonder if Beth will be so open to the community again?
Here is kiiind of the thing about Leaks. The majority of the time the company leaks the information on purpose and pretends it was an accident. USUALLY to gauge interest.
Post by: Sergarr on November 09, 2015, 03:03:03 am
Cracking is basically a competition at this point, there's a number of different groups and they all try to get their cracks up first. This is often before the actual release date. I find it pretty cool, although I don't really approve of piracy (maybe because I don't approve of DRM, either)Don't forget the "you must download the game from the Internet using our launcher with incredibly low download speed, even if you bought the physical copy" bullshit. It never hurts the actual pirates, who get their games fast and clean, it only hurts the legit customers, which have to struggle with "anti-pirate measures" which actual pirates don't really face.
Sadly, because there aren't any "video game player unions" or "friendly-to-players video game developer companies", no one is going to do shit about it (the best candidate, Stardock, that proposed a model of "we make games too good to pirate", broke its own rules by releasing Elemental: War of Magic in an incredibly buggy state, and has been going downhill since then).
Post by: Catastrophic lolcats on November 09, 2015, 03:08:05 am
Post by: Ultimuh on November 09, 2015, 04:31:10 am
And all the takedowns are because it backfired and they are trying to save face in some way or another?
Post by: scriver on November 09, 2015, 05:19:43 am
I think.
Post by: Leyic on November 09, 2015, 05:33:47 am
What if.. The leaks were intentional in order to generate more hype?So... Beth tells all the big game review websites with large audiences that they're not allowed to publish reviews or anything until the day before release, but then gives a bunch of random people almost no one's ever heard of the game so they can advertise it instead. That probably makes sense... somewhere.
But it is perhaps entirely unlikely that people might use their connections with managers at various game stores and warehouses to get the game early and then gloat about it all over the internet because absolutely no person in this world is unscrupulous nor a show off. Only game publishers are evil, after all.
Meanwhile, no one talks about how the nearly blank game discs Beth's been selling are actually relay antennae for the ZeniMax orbital mind control device which will brainwash everyone into thinking Fallout 4 is a masterpiece superior to the original in every way, shape, and form. This is the only reason anyone will say positive things about the game.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on November 09, 2015, 05:45:10 am
Meanwhile, no one talks about how the nearly blank game discs Beth's been selling are actually relay antennae for the ZeniMax orbital mind control device which will brainwash everyone into thinking Fallout 4 is a masterpiece superior to the original in every way, shape, and form. This is the only reason anyone will say positive things about the game.
Your hat seems very nice. Where I can get one?
Post by: Shadowlord on November 09, 2015, 05:48:58 am
Post by: scriver on November 09, 2015, 06:39:29 am
Meanwhile, no one talks about how the nearly blank game discs Beth's been selling are actually relay antennae for the ZeniMax orbital mind control device which will brainwash everyone into thinking Fallout 4 is a masterpiece superior to the original in every way, shape, and form. This is the only reason anyone will say positive things about the game.
Your hat seems very nice. Where I can get one?
I believe your mistaking for sincerity Leyic's ludicrously hyperbolic sarcasming over how some people think it's perfectly plausible that a company with a dedicated marketing department might make use of marketing campaigns and strategies to whip up hype for their just-about-to-be-released game. Apparently Leyic thinks that is on par with crazy conspiracy theorists.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on November 09, 2015, 07:02:36 am
After reading that five times I'm still not certain which side of fence you are standing on.Meanwhile, no one talks about how the nearly blank game discs Beth's been selling are actually relay antennae for the ZeniMax orbital mind control device which will brainwash everyone into thinking Fallout 4 is a masterpiece superior to the original in every way, shape, and form. This is the only reason anyone will say positive things about the game.
Your hat seems very nice. Where I can get one?
I believe your mistaking for sincerity Leyic's ludicrously hyperbolic sarcasming over how some people think it's perfectly plausible that a company with a dedicated marketing department might make use of marketing campaigns and strategies to whip up hype for their just-about-to-be-released game. Apparently Leyic thinks that is on par with crazy conspiracy theorists.
Post by: Astral on November 09, 2015, 09:04:43 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 09, 2015, 09:19:42 am
Post by: Arbinire on November 09, 2015, 09:24:01 am
Bethesda, please just stop trying to get Emil Pagliarulo to head this series and give John Gonzalez and Chris Avellone dumptrucks full of money to come back and rein in the series.
Post by: umiman on November 09, 2015, 09:28:42 am
Post by: Sergarr on November 09, 2015, 09:56:16 am
a lot of cognitive dissonanceBut puppy! How can you not embrace the puppy, you heretic! *insert a generic "everyone loves different things" relativity-based excuse for buying the game based on pre-order hype*
Post by: MaximumZero on November 09, 2015, 10:25:59 am
Post by: JimboM12 on November 09, 2015, 11:08:14 am
Well, reviews are out now and though I wont say it's getting hammered on...I'd definitely say there's a lot of passive aggressive, "between the lines" in the majority of them. Consensus seems to be that it's "more of the same" or "Skyrim with guns", but as nicely as reviewers seem to be able to say it. Pretty telling that most are giving it in the ranges of 8-8.8, depending on the rating scale the reviewer goes by.
Bethesda, please just stop trying to get Emil Pagliarulo to head this series and give John Gonzalez and Chris Avellone dumptrucks full of money to come back and rein in the series.
I tend not to take reviewers reviews seriously anymore; I fail to see how Skyrim with guns is a bad thing. Also why compare to Skyrim, my comparison of the combat and exploration is much more similar to FO3 and NV and that simple goodness of running around exploring and killing bandits/mutated critters is timeless gameplay. I mean, did those reviewers even try to set up a trade empire between 3 settlements, using the funds to create the baddest greaser gang in the wastes, and using said greaser gang to kill gangs of super mutants? Fun is what you make it, and most reviewers aren't looking for the fun.
However, I do agree Chris should be brought back. He'd reset the setting by nuking the NCR and disbanding the Legion and basically reset the entire setting, and reset the gameplay by reintroducing isometric gameplay in 3D, hexes and all. Not to mention RNG rolls, where dogmeat might critical fail so hard he bites his own head off. This would be a real reboot of the series, but im happy so far with what I've seen in presentations and trailers of Fallout 4.
Post by: BigD145 on November 09, 2015, 11:10:17 am
Giant Bomb has a PS4 quick look video up.
New thread title suggestion:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: miauw62 on November 09, 2015, 12:09:00 pm
It's a Fallout 3/NV game, which I had fun with. May or may not be worth $60 USthat's why a lot of people decided to pre-order it on GMG.
45 euros for a brand new game where you more or less know what to expect (hype aside, i assume most people here know what to expect from a beth game), which will likely have an active modding scene is a pretty good deal, imo. not to mention that you won't get a better one for a while.
E:
also why not, even though i havent watched any videos or read any reviews yet.
Post by: BigD145 on November 09, 2015, 12:43:10 pm
Post by: JimboM12 on November 09, 2015, 12:47:54 pm
Post by: DoomOnion on November 09, 2015, 12:51:44 pm
I'm not a huge fan of Fallout 4's huge gun models, especially for the assault rifle and plasma rifle.
They are just... so.... huge.
Post by: miauw62 on November 09, 2015, 12:55:24 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 09, 2015, 01:26:13 pm
And all I think about reviews has already been posted:
Fun is what you make it, and most reviewers aren't looking for the fun.
It's a Fallout 3/NV game, which I had fun with. May or may not be worth $60 US but worth buying in the end if you like modern Fallout. That seems to be the consensus.
Then you browse in some places and people go "THIS ISN'T MEINKREFT", "THIS ISN'T FALLOUT 1", "THIS ISN'T POKEMEN". I will always blame the console people.
Regarding water: IGN gave it a 9.5. I won't read the review until I play the game first, but they didn't mention water in the review...which makes me sad.
Meanwhile, I'm shaking my fist at the monitor while Steam reads:
"Fallout 4 - Pre-load complete; unreleased"
Post by: Dansmithers on November 09, 2015, 01:36:41 pm
Nah, even if they are intentional leaks they still have to send takedowns and such both to keep up the facade that it is a leak and because it makes sense from a marketing viewpoint - people want what they can't have and having the internet scramble to find working links and keep one step ahead in spreading the videos generates more hype than just releasing them outright.BETH DID 9/11
TAKEDOWNS CAN'T MELT STEEL BEAMS
WAKE UP SHEEPLE
Post by: miauw62 on November 09, 2015, 01:38:44 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 09, 2015, 03:15:35 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 09, 2015, 03:20:22 pm
Even though he said he won't do the main quest and will remove spoilers, I really want to do exactly what I did to FO3 and FO:NV: Just install and launch it.
Damned 4AM launch.
Sigh. Looks like I'll have to wait.
Me too. 9 hours.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 09, 2015, 03:26:47 pm
And even then there's a good chance it won't work.
DAMN YOU, LACK OF INCOME.
Post by: Gabeux on November 09, 2015, 03:28:19 pm
How it will work? I don't know. But it will.
Post by: Graknorke on November 09, 2015, 03:29:16 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 09, 2015, 03:36:52 pm
(Then again, my 5 year-old Radeon HD 6870 never ceases to amaze me. I have a little hope that I can play on low graphics settings until I can get a new one in a few months.)
And that video made me cringe for some reason. ::)
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 09, 2015, 03:39:49 pm
*STARES AT SPECS*
8gb of ram? nnNNOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Graknorke on November 09, 2015, 03:41:13 pm
Post by: Putnam on November 09, 2015, 03:44:30 pm
Post by: Arbinire on November 09, 2015, 03:55:43 pm
todd howard is a lizard
Maybe not Todd Howard, but Pete Hines for sure.
Edit: I mean c'mon, you can't tell me you don't immediately think of the "Edgar Suit" scene in Men In Black after looking at this picture
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 09, 2015, 04:00:20 pm
Well hey RAM is the easiest and cheapest (essential) piece of hardware to upgrade. So that's not too bad.i have a laptop
Post by: BigD145 on November 09, 2015, 04:03:38 pm
Well hey RAM is the easiest and cheapest (essential) piece of hardware to upgrade. So that's not too bad.i have a laptop
I was going to say, "easiest if you have a motherboard that can handle it." RAM is still fairly cheap for laptops, assuming you don't have a Mac or other laptop that doesn't allow upgrades.
Post by: Sergarr on November 09, 2015, 04:08:51 pm
Hey, I understand you completely. I could barely get the game, and then I noticed the minimum requirements is 2GB VRAM, and I have 1GB VRAM.
How it will work? I don't know. But it will.
*STARES AT MINIMUM*Uh.
*STARES AT SPECS*
8gb of ram? nnNNOOOOOOOOO
Wasn't the point behind having relatively outdated graphics in Fallout 4 that it wouldn't. You know. Take so much resources to run?
I mean, I remember people talking about this, like, a few days ago. In this very thread.
Post by: Putnam on November 09, 2015, 04:13:46 pm
The game is designed for PS4 and Xbox One. Both are essentially mid-end computers. Both have 8 GB ram.
Post by: Shadowlord on November 09, 2015, 04:19:21 pm
Uh.
Wasn't the point behind having relatively outdated graphics in Fallout 4 that it wouldn't. You know. Take so much resources to run?
I mean, I remember people talking about this, like, a few days ago. In this very thread.
Yeah, that was weird. I just assumed everyone else who was talking like those were reasonable specs had been upgrading their computers, while I hadn't been. :V
Post by: Sergarr on November 09, 2015, 04:30:25 pm
8 GB is basically a bare minimum these days.But... I have only 4 GB...
I guess it helps that I basically ignore all graphics-large games, but still. 8 GB is insanely large, for a game. That's like, 4 Diablo IIs. And that's terrible.
Post by: Gabeux on November 09, 2015, 04:37:55 pm
I mean, I hadn't touched my PC in 5 years except for parts that stopped working. So I'm not complaining at the game or anything. I just got out of touch with things and wasn't expecting a 2GB VRAM minimum.
The only thing I find weird are the Recommended CPU specs, AMD FX-9590? What are you going to do with those 8 cores at 4.7 Ghz? Simulate the entire wasteland and the surrounding planets?
I bet an i5 would suffice too.
I kind of can't grasp the 8GB. But since people said some interiors are also loaded - which remove constant loading screens - I can sort of understand.
But yeah, I'm most definitely out of touch with specs and all that since I've been mostly playing indie titles nowadays.
>> Took me too long to realize that those things really probably were all discussed to death.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 09, 2015, 04:41:39 pm
I'm mostly just hoping against hope I'll be able to /launch/ the damn thing.
Post by: miauw62 on November 09, 2015, 04:44:43 pm
I do agree that 8GB of RAM is a very reasonable amount nowadays, and also that old Radeon cards do pretty well. My old Radeon HD Mobile 5650 ran far more than it had any right to, until it started overheating a lot and creating crash-inducing artifacts on things like Aero window frames and YouTube videos.
Post by: Gabeux on November 09, 2015, 05:13:59 pm
I think while I wait, I should write a book: "How to cope with hype."
If I know one thing, is that one doesn't need to be successful in a subject in order to write a bestseller about it.
EDIT: Coping, while listening to this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXSUEU7ISfQ).
Post by: miauw62 on November 09, 2015, 05:16:41 pm
There are no brakes on the hype train.
Post by: scriver on November 09, 2015, 05:26:29 pm
I gave in and preordered.
At least Steam has the whole refund system. Also, I hope they don't try to sneak in the 'pay for mods' thing with FO4. I suspect they won't given the title's size, but then again...
So did I. And I was so proud that I had managed to not give in.
I feel like I just guilt-ate seven cakes.
Post by: Gabeux on November 09, 2015, 05:34:05 pm
I gave in and preordered.
At least Steam has the whole refund system. Also, I hope they don't try to sneak in the 'pay for mods' thing with FO4. I suspect they won't given the title's size, but then again...
So did I. And I was so proud that I had managed to not give in.
I feel like I just guilt-ate seven cakes.
Yes children. Break and give in. Bahahaha
Next time we should make a group of the ones who tried to not buy it and failed. I only bought it last week, and I was trying so hard to ignore it.
At least when we all break it will be synchronized and beautiful.
You cannot cope with hype.
There are no brakes on the hype train.
ATOM BOMB BABY ATOM BOMB
Post by: Shadowlord on November 09, 2015, 05:47:52 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 09, 2015, 05:50:59 pm
It feels rather... well.
Post by: miauw62 on November 09, 2015, 05:53:25 pm
It makes me sad that I will be unavailable for all of Wednesday, both because of this and HOMEWORK.
Post by: Gabeux on November 09, 2015, 05:53:43 pm
Shadowlord, the wastelands calls to you. You won't be the Lone Survivor in this thread.
Maybe I should stop posting..
Post by: Sergarr on November 09, 2015, 06:04:21 pm
I do question the motivation behind coming into a thread for a game specifically to go "WELL I WON'T PLAY THIS".Well it obviously is a desperate attempt to save people from the clutches of HYPE, before it's too late and they sell their soul to the corporate devil :-X
It feels rather... well.
Post by: Graknorke on November 09, 2015, 06:06:44 pm
I greased myself up before the hype train could get a hold of me. Optimistic buy skeptical is the winning attitude. Especially given that preordering is evil and wrong.
Post by: scriver on November 09, 2015, 06:12:36 pm
I'm not going to buy it because I'm not the kind of sucker who buys something that I could already play but for full price again.
I greased myself up before the hype train could get a hold of me. Optimistic buy skeptical is the winning attitude. Especially given that preordering is evil and wrong.
That's exactly where I thought I was yesterday ;)
I do question the motivation behind coming into a thread for a game specifically to go "WELL I WON'T PLAY THIS".
It feels rather... well.
Don't be so defensive, it was relevant to the stream of discussion.
Post by: miauw62 on November 09, 2015, 06:16:09 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 09, 2015, 06:17:33 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Like this?
Post by: miauw62 on November 09, 2015, 06:18:07 pm
Post by: MorleyDev on November 09, 2015, 06:21:10 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 09, 2015, 06:29:26 pm
I do question the motivation behind coming into a thread for a game specifically to go "WELL I WON'T PLAY THIS".Rude?
It feels rather... well.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 09, 2015, 06:47:33 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 09, 2015, 06:48:38 pm
So I'll find a way to sleep and wake up 7am.
See you all on the other side of Hype Station :P.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 09, 2015, 06:50:52 pm
I can't speak to the veracity of that, though.
Post by: Shadowlord on November 09, 2015, 06:52:09 pm
Post by: Graknorke on November 09, 2015, 06:53:07 pm
E: Also, don't feel bad about graphics, I've been seeing people complaining about not being able to run it on Ultra with a TITAN X (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121923).If that's true then there's either worlds of difference between ultra and what they've been showcasing, or they've optimised it like a lion trying to fuck a small rodent.
I can't speak to the veracity of that, though.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 09, 2015, 07:05:20 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 09, 2015, 09:26:16 pm
ONE DAY UNTIL FALLOUT 4
HYPE HYPE HYPE
Post by: Shadowlord on November 09, 2015, 09:38:57 pm
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26452959/kaelf4already.png)
Post by: redwallzyl on November 09, 2015, 09:43:24 pm
Character creation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeeyzcUAg54
Base building: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LvubPRR1D8
any yes you can make crazy silly faces. also you can be chubby looking.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gabeux on November 09, 2015, 09:46:53 pm
This usually happens when I try to forcibly change my sleeping patterns.
At least here in Brazil, it's not unlocked yet. Only 4am confirmed. ::)
Post by: SealyStar on November 09, 2015, 09:48:53 pm
Personally, I hate to say it, but I'll avoid the hype as best I can. This is the first game in a long time that I've been interested in enough to want myself, but which I can neither run on my computer nor am willing to buy at full price. So I'll resign myself to ducking spoilers until I get a better PC and it inevitably goes on Steam sale for tembux two years from now.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 09, 2015, 09:49:08 pm
Post by: BFEL on November 09, 2015, 09:51:26 pm
I want to sleep so I'll be ready to play for the half hour or so before I have to work, but I'm too HYPE to do so.
Post by: Gabeux on November 09, 2015, 09:53:30 pm
been watching some lets plays because I'm a poor college student with a terrible laptop and i would say it looks fine to me. if you want some spoiler free videos of character creation and base building i will link some robbaz videos. the first one does have the first intro bit leading up to the vault but skips the vault events and you could just stop watching after creation if you want.
Character creation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeeyzcUAg54
Base building: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LvubPRR1D8
any yes you can make crazy silly faces. also you can be chubby looking.
Oh yeah, I'm watching the Base Building now. Only Robbaz can help me with my hype.
The good thing is that he's one of the few youtubers who are as good as me in videogames (:P), so I don't bash my keyboard every two minutes in his videos.
(I highly recommend watching the From the Depths videos from him to get a good idea of his dedication)
I didn't know you could place stuff in a non-grid fashion. He just placed a set of stairs in the middle of nowhere. This looks cooler than I thought.
Expectations: set them low and always be happy.
HUUUUURGH
I want to sleep so I'll be ready to play for the half hour or so before I have to work, but I'm too HYPE to do so.
I feel ya brah. I actually dreamt Raiders tried to mug me and I killed them with VATS.
In my defense, Fallout has been with me since I was a little kid. So I think it's the only franchise nowadays that makes me feel like one.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on November 09, 2015, 10:04:35 pm
Repeat...
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 09, 2015, 10:06:18 pm
Yes. THAT Salem. With the witches. Hohboy.
Post by: Dansmithers on November 09, 2015, 10:07:14 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 09, 2015, 11:26:53 pm
Are they really releasing it based on local time? Seems like a bizarre thing to do in the internet age; Steam says it won't be out for three more hours.It does seem a bit arbitrary, but I can kinda understand. For one thing it may help distribute the download load (though preloading does that too, better).
Personally, I hate to say it, but I'll avoid the hype as best I can. This is the first game in a long time that I've been interested in enough to want myself, but which I can neither run on my computer nor am willing to buy at full price. So I'll resign myself to ducking spoilers until I get a better PC and it inevitably goes on Steam sale for tembux two years from now.
Of course, I wouldn't mind, I live on the east coast :P
...
And can't play for at least 4 more days :-X
Post by: Flying Dice on November 09, 2015, 11:53:34 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 09, 2015, 11:57:26 pm
Don't forget to download the PipBoy app so you can have the best damn stupid little thing on your phone. Or whatever the lizard man said.
Post by: BFEL on November 10, 2015, 12:03:32 am
FUCKING MIDNIGHT, IT RELEASED AND Y'KNOW WHAT?
HOUR LONG UPDATE TIME!
FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKINTERCOURSE!
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 10, 2015, 12:04:17 am
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Post by: Flying Dice on November 10, 2015, 12:04:41 am
Post by: Gabeux on November 10, 2015, 12:05:28 am
ALL OF THIS WON'T CHANGE THE FACT THAT MY VIDEO CARD IS SHIT
Post by: umiman on November 10, 2015, 12:07:42 am
1. I'm not particularly sure what I'm doing. I mean, the main quest seems pretty urgent, but my dude seems to lack any sort of urgency. Which is okay I guess. It's open world after all.
2. But seriously, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just derping around the wasteland looting shit to build shit and looting more shit to build shit. Not really sure why. It's like Diablo or Terraria in that sense.
3. The new dialogue system sucks ass. Being limited to only four choices for each conversation is really stupid. And sometimes I don't even know what the hell the option is. The worst part is that most of the "explain further" choices lock you out of the "decision" choices. So let's say you're talking about a lost locket. You get the choice of "where is it?", "no", "yes", "already have it". If you select "where is it" it automatically assumes you said yes and if you select the other choices, you don't get to ask where it is. There's tonnes of situations like that and it's annoying.
4. There's bugs to be expected. I ran into a mine where all the textures were incomplete so it was a giant grey block for example. Also lots of dialogue and quest bugs. Highly recommend saving often.
5. Why does power armor run out of energy so fast?
6. Deathclaws are pretty scary.
7. The crafting is pretty good. It's very extensive. I'm still using a modified version of my starting pistol.
8. The new perk system is kinda... meh. I think the problem with it is that a lot of the perks are boring due to most of them either being some kind of percentage stat buff or unlocking a crafting / roguish ability. I'm also annoyed at how many crafting perks there are. Would it really have killed them to just make it one or two perks that govern them?
9. I like the armor layering system but I wish I could layer over more base clothes. For example, I can put additional pads on military fatigues but not on a suit. Why? It'd look so cool.
10. I wish I could save outfits. Having to dump on all my radiation gear then reequip all my normal gear afterwards is annoying. Right now you can only save one single equipment piece at a time.
11. I'm playing on hard, but other than the deathclaw fight, I've never really felt in danger or challenged so I've never bothered to put any perks into offensive stuff.
12. The graphics are really here and there. Some of the scenery is really pretty but some of the character models and textures need some serious work. Not all of them though. For example, your butler robot looks quite nice. However, it runs pretty good. My system is doing 60fps 1080 no problem. No crashes either. There was this radiation storm I ran into that was quite pretty.
13. I'm actually kinda confused why this dude is running around the wasteland building shit all over the place. But I guess he's supposed to represent me so... why am I running around the wasteland building shit all over the place? I dunno. I saved this one farm, then dismantled all their shit and stole all their crops. Now that family is just chilling doing nothing.
14. I can't wait for UI mods. The crafting menu especially needs some serious work.
Post by: JimboM12 on November 10, 2015, 12:09:17 am
FUCK IN A HANDBASKET.
Post by: Ultimuh on November 10, 2015, 12:10:10 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on November 10, 2015, 12:16:12 am
Also it auto-detected and set everything to Ultra, max drawdistances on everything. HYYPE.
Post by: BFEL on November 10, 2015, 01:06:16 am
STILL NOT PLAYING YET. HAS TO DO FIRST TIME SETUP GAHHHH
Post by: Gabeux on November 10, 2015, 01:14:13 am
And man..my HD 6870 never ceases to amaze me. It's working at over 30FPS with some stuff on medium. Gotta see how bad the hit will be when I finally get to the wasteland.
There's some weird, ugly bugs with anti-alias, but everything else seems fine for now.
Post by: Rose on November 10, 2015, 01:15:37 am
Post by: Putnam on November 10, 2015, 01:22:21 am
Post by: Majestic7 on November 10, 2015, 01:26:08 am
http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/3s4vkh/my_review_of_fallout_4_and_1080p_pc_video/
Post by: MaximumZero on November 10, 2015, 01:33:46 am
Lowlight of the night: Store was closed at 12:30am, line was done at 12:16am. Some guy calls up at 12:45 and cusses me out because we're closed. I was already counting the registers at that point. Nothing I could do for him, and he did not give a single shit. I wound up getting him to hang up on me, and went about my closing duties. Some people, man. World doesn't revolve around a single one of us, and it'd be great if everyone knew that.
Anyway, I got a free t-shirt, and there's now less than one hour to the Falloutening! Woo!
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 10, 2015, 01:37:04 am
Post by: Putnam on November 10, 2015, 01:37:42 am
Post by: BFEL on November 10, 2015, 01:39:18 am
HOORAY FOR THROWING SIXTY DOLLARS DOWN THE TOILET BECAUSE THE LOWEST SETTINGS INCLUDE ANIMATING ALL INTERNAL ORGANS HYPER REALISTICALLY AND MY MACHINE HAS THE COMPUTER EQUIVALENT OF CANCER.
Post by: Vendayn on November 10, 2015, 01:43:06 am
So I finally got the game up and running...and turns out I CAN'T RUN THE GAME.
HOORAY FOR THROWING SIXTY DOLLARS DOWN THE TOILET BECAUSE THE LOWEST SETTINGS INCLUDE ANIMATING ALL INTERNAL ORGANS HYPER REALISTICALLY AND MY MACHINE HAS THE COMPUTER EQUIVALENT OF CANCER.
I'd probably issue a steam refund and get money back in my steam wallet account (I assume refunds go into steam wallet). I recommend doing that and spending it on another game.
I haven't launched the game yet, but my PC is good so I doubt I'll have issues. but if I had an outdated PC and found out the game couldn't run on lowest, I'd get my money back.
Post by: scriver on November 10, 2015, 01:54:25 am
lol i knew the name of the vault 101 overseer (i remember it starting with a vowel and being ludicrously european for fallout)
L-ludicrously? ...But most of America's names are European! :'(
Post by: Putnam on November 10, 2015, 01:55:09 am
Post by: JimboM12 on November 10, 2015, 02:43:39 am
1. Set to medium presets under launcher.
2. Go borderless window, set to screen resolution
3. Disable or set godrays to low
4. Go to fallout4prefs.ini in documents/my games/fallout4
5. Set iPresentInterval (or something like this) to 0
6. Save and make read only.
7. Attempt launch and to tweak settings to your liking, go unset read only on prefs and tweak. Remember to ensure present intervals is still 0
Hope this helps, gotta sleep cuz stoopid work.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 10, 2015, 03:43:38 am
1. Seems to be relatively well-optimized and bug-free. I've been playing with all settings maxed out and haven't suffered a single drop in framerate, which has stayed very smooth. No CTDs. No floating rocks/trees or holes in the world. There's only been one thing at all buggy, but that's a bit of a spoiler on a fun little encounter.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
2. Dialogues are improved. People have more expressive faces and move their bodies when talking. Cutting to the third-person camera helps with the old corpse-stare as well. However, eyes are still dead-dead-dead, and the mouth-flaps occasionally bug out.
3. I was right, power armor is fueled by power cells. Thankfully neither they nor replacement armor panels seem too rare; I've found two more suits apart from the initial one and 5 extra cores just wandering around randomly.
4. JESUS FUCK DEATHCLAW SCURRY.
5. Creature combat is generally improved by the burrowing. I tried to cheese a Giant Radscorpion with a cliff, but it burrowed to the top from the valley it was in. Q.Q
6. Ghouls got the revamp they needed. They look much better, and ferals are scarier to fight.
7. Doge is a bit annoying, tends to stand in your way (as per usual). The whole "lead you to treasure" thing is a mixed bag; I've had him find stashes of good loot, but I've also had him lead me to random baseball bats and safes I've already found but can't open.
8. They definitely did better on the little things. I've found lots of funny, quirky bits and bobs that aren't in-your-face about it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
9. It's kind of awkward having the scroll wheel control both first/third person switching and scrolling through loot.
10. Loot lists display armor/weapons with plus marks when they're better than what you have equipped. Neato.
11. Weapon modding is pretty deep, but requires a shitload of scavenging. Now you've got a reason to carry around ten thousand bits of crap! Adhesives are especially valuable.
12. You can store stuff in the workshop inventories, I'm pretty sure that they're persistent.
13. The new layering of the rad-meter over the HP bar is great. Also the UI element color being a RGB slider set instead of a couple presets.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on November 10, 2015, 03:49:15 am
Post by: Gabeux on November 10, 2015, 04:07:29 am
- I didn't bump into anything bad, except some awkwardness like with controls: F used to change camera, now it opens Favorite menus, and that sort of thing.
Construction is a bit awkward and the menus could be better, but damn, I like it. First thing I do is plop 3 boxes so I can get ready to organize my loot. Also, a bed.
And I'm still not sure how the map is scaled overall, but I bumped into a trader's cottage, an old truck filled with radioactive barrels, a group of raiders sleeping and a Settler asking for purified water. One at pretty close distance to another, not the kind of thing you'd see in Fallout 3.
- I'm also playing at Very Hard and it feels so adequate. I never thought Bloatflies would be scary. Not sure if I can play like this for too long though.
Gun play and sounds are so much better. My first firefight against 5 raiders was pretty tactical and intense due to the difficulty. Not sure what will happen once I get Science Rank 4 and my modded Plasma Shotgun.
- I still don't understand the "The new dialogue system IS UTTER SHIT!" I've seen around. It makes you use the arrow keys..so what?
I'm really enjoying the new animations and the dialogue options and reactions. You try to be a smartass and the person's body language and face already says everything it needs.
Having the voiced character is so cool.
- Having the ability to scrap everything does make the game feel..different. I'm not used to playing Fallout and thinking "After I do that, I'll come back here and build the next floor. I also need to scrap some cars. Dogmeat, stop fucking around with the Mole Rats and find me some materials!"
All I know is that I want MOAR
EDIT: Forgot to mention that when I launched the game it didn't even recognize my graphics card. Except for some minor weirdness with either shadow or antialias around actors, it's working well on a Medium-Low setting. I only get below ~24FPS when effects like smoke, fog or the crazy lighting kicks in.
But I seriously love it - will probably have to play it all over again once I change the card.
Post by: Catastrophic lolcats on November 10, 2015, 04:17:19 am
I still don't understand the "The new dialogue system IS UTTER SHIT!" [...] It makes you use the arrow keys.
~24FPSC'mon man. :-\
Post by: Gabeux on November 10, 2015, 04:24:46 am
And it's at low FPS because of my graphics card. I'm actually surprised it's that high.
Then again, I'm not playing with everything off as I should..
Oh, and the arrow keys..I get its a nuisance. But I thought they could be remapped. They can't. ::)
I forgot to mention that being able to melee enemies with the ranged weapons is really cool - and useful if you like to get close like me.
On Very Hard saving the seconds you'd take to change weapons can pretty much mean less 60% damage you take that day.
I also find it very satisfying. The interrupts are also really neat.
Post by: Yolan on November 10, 2015, 05:38:53 am
That said, I can't see myself buying this for quite a few months, once it goes on sale and the modding scene has started to boost the difficulty and survival elements.
Post by: YaW on November 10, 2015, 06:04:18 am
Hey, I'm sleep deprived, so take it easy on me. :P
And it's at low FPS because of my graphics card. I'm actually surprised it's that high.
Then again, I'm not playing with everything off as I should..
Oh, and the arrow keys..I get its a nuisance. But I thought they could be remapped. They can't. ::)
I forgot to mention that being able to melee enemies with the ranged weapons is really cool - and useful if you like to get close like me.
On Very Hard saving the seconds you'd take to change weapons can pretty much mean less 60% damage you take that day.
I also find it very satisfying. The interrupts are also really neat.
Man, I'm loving that melee detail so much, can't believe more game don't implement something like that. It's a little sad the game is less RPG than ever, but shooting is fine for me and I'm having fun, so...
Post by: BFEL on November 10, 2015, 06:08:48 am
Because I'm apparently retarded.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 10, 2015, 06:17:05 am
Orchestral music radio station is great.
Also, in case you haven't noticed, durability/condition is gone. Your armor and weapons are good forever. Thank fucking goodness.
Also also, bobbleheads are in. They aren't just for SPECIAL stats, either, I found one which was called "Repair" that permanently increases how long my power armor fusion cores last for.
Did find one bug, of sorts. When doge is already at maximum carrying capacity and he tries to pick up something to show you, he vomits his inventory all over the ground.
Post by: motorbitch on November 10, 2015, 06:26:58 am
Post by: Gabeux on November 10, 2015, 06:28:52 am
Looking at some lets plays I notice that you can grab things from containers without actually "opening" them as far as a little GUI window is concerned, making it much quicker to rummage around.
Yep. One thing I absoluted hated on Skyrim (and solved by getting the "backpack" mod or something, that lets you craft satchels..and also by Autoharvest mod) and Fallout 3 (Didn't care much back in that time, though. Earlier days) was how easily you could get encumbered and how opening every single thing would pause the game.
I'm not getting stressed at that in FO4. Thanks the lawd they did that little window thing.
Also, they must have balanced the items' weight. It takes a while before I get encumbered, and then I can still dump stuff on companions.
Since you can define where you drop from fast travel on your settlements, that means you can fast travel right beside a "Loot Drop-Box" and be ready to get back to adventuring in no time.
(Just to clarify: 'Loot Drop-Box' being a box you built right there, nothing special. I usually dump stuff in such a box, and then when it's crafting-time I do the inventory sorting, scrapping, and all that.)
I'm still very early game, but I'm enjoying it. The things that really bored me seem to have been minimized.
....fucken Ninja'd by Flying Dice, which made me remember that the music in the game is so much better than on FO3 or NV. Both on combat and outside of it.
FO3 was full of awkward moments and silences both during combat and outside.
About Durability, I'm not sure how I feel about removing it completely. It DID piss me off because I think it was unbalanced and annoying back then, but I was hoping for a component-damage sort of thing. Like, your stock needs repair because you melee'd too much. Or the barrel gets damaged. Etc. As long as you didn't have to repair it at every 10 minutes, of course.
And that Doge Bug seems glorious.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 10, 2015, 06:35:04 am
That said, I don't think it's really viable; they've already got two gigantic resource sinks in the form of modding stuff and building stuff. Instead of playing square-peg round-hole with looted guns, I'm breaking them down for steel.
Post by: Gabeux on November 10, 2015, 06:57:56 am
And yeah, I really like the new gear and items and stuff. Everything feels much more "post-apocalyptic" when most weapons have different components and all that.
By the way, in which difficulty are you playing? I feel like Very Hard makes bosses very much impossible - unless you are with higher level than the boss, with good gear.
Hard seems to be "Normal".
Post by: Flying Dice on November 10, 2015, 07:13:47 am
There's another quality of life improvement: Remember all those times you donked shots on fences, metal grate floors, &c.? You can shoot straight through almost all of them now. 'course, that also means you can get shot from below or above and barely be able to see whatever's shooting you.
Post by: Graknorke on November 10, 2015, 07:36:03 am
If that's true then there's either worlds of difference between ultra and what they've been showcasing, or they've optimised it like a lion trying to fuck a small rodent.
Spoiler: the second one, apparently (click to show/hide)
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 10, 2015, 09:01:53 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWwiPRfLNME
Post by: scriver on November 10, 2015, 09:09:05 am
Looking at some lets plays I notice that you can grab things from containers without actually "opening" them as far as a little GUI window is concerned, making it much quicker to rummage around. These kinds of intuitive improvements look great. To that extent the "streamlining" away from its RPG roots isn't something I'm totally against. A lot of classic RPG features are very clunky and don't translate well for modern game players.
Hassely containers and inventories are not what people are usually against streamlining away, you know. Those things aren't usually what people miss about old games.
game's silly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWwiPRfLNME
God, that Norwegian accent...
Post by: redwallzyl on November 10, 2015, 09:13:37 am
He's SwedishLooking at some lets plays I notice that you can grab things from containers without actually "opening" them as far as a little GUI window is concerned, making it much quicker to rummage around. These kinds of intuitive improvements look great. To that extent the "streamlining" away from its RPG roots isn't something I'm totally against. A lot of classic RPG features are very clunky and don't translate well for modern game players.
Hassely containers and inventories are not what people are usually against streamlining away, you know. Those things aren't usually what people miss about old games.game's silly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWwiPRfLNME
God, that Norwegian accent...
Post by: scriver on November 10, 2015, 09:14:18 am
Post by: Blargityblarg on November 10, 2015, 09:39:31 am
Post by: Graknorke on November 10, 2015, 09:50:16 am
I wonder what would happen if for just one release, everyone collectively refused to fix Beth's games for them.
Post by: miljan on November 10, 2015, 10:06:42 am
Post by: miauw62 on November 10, 2015, 10:08:04 am
also the engine ticks being tied to game fps makes no sense, how could that even happen, that wasn't a thing in previous games and afaik this game runs on the same engine.
Post by: Graknorke on November 10, 2015, 10:09:04 am
I am interested is this a console port with a console interface (inventory and similar) like the last few games (skyrim, fallout 3, oblivion) or is it not, and has normal interface you would expect from a PC game?According to some reviewers the key layout isn't so hot. Menus having inconsistent buttons for back and accept and so on. Think Dwarf Fortress.
Post by: motorbitch on November 10, 2015, 10:13:38 am
also the engine ticks being tied to game fps makes no sense,very true
that wasn't a thing in previous games and afaik this game runs on the same engine.it was. tho its not a problem if you drop below vsync, if you disable vsync, the game will run faster if you have more then 60fps.
especially annoying as this engine also has mouse lag and acceleration tied to vsync.
edit: to make it clear: you have to mod the game to make it run faster then intended, even though its only a config file mod.
Post by: miauw62 on November 10, 2015, 10:15:26 am
Still doesn't seem like that huge of a problem, tbh. from the video author's tone he seems to be kicking up a huge amount of fuss and trying to create drama about something that apparently didn't bother many people in previous games.
Post by: Graknorke on November 10, 2015, 10:16:23 am
this engine also has mouse lag and acceleration tied to vsync.Nice to know that Bethesda really cares about the PC audience :^)
It's 2015.
Post by: motorbitch on November 10, 2015, 10:16:38 am
*shrug* not a real issue. at least for me the mouse is working fine....this engine also has mouse lag and acceleration tied to vsync.Nice to know that Bethesda really cares about the PC audience :^)
It's 2015.
but yes. its an awkward limitation of the engine.
Post by: miauw62 on November 10, 2015, 11:11:38 am
Then again, it IS 2015, which is imo also a pretty reasonable argument.
I would like to note that my tone is probably due to me being pretty angry and stressed for most of today, so sorry if I came off as rude, the dumb comments on that video just set me off.
Post by: Knave on November 10, 2015, 12:00:16 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: redwallzyl on November 10, 2015, 12:09:04 pm
Slight Armour spoilers for early game.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: IWishIWereSarah on November 10, 2015, 12:31:01 pm
Is is really limited ?Is there an advantage to using the more basic types of armour?[/spoiler]Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I mean, from the previous video (haven't played myself), I just saw someone in power armor jump from a building and melee a Deathclaw with a pool cue :/
Post by: umiman on November 10, 2015, 01:15:04 pm
Post by: Knave on November 10, 2015, 01:27:25 pm
It's limited by fusion cores and kinda only lasts like... 10 minutes? On full charge.
10 minutes? Ah shoot. Do I get a wagon to carry around my useless armour between encounters? :P
Post by: umiman on November 10, 2015, 01:33:51 pm
I only took one out to shitwreck a bandit encampment that had a minigun boss.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 10, 2015, 02:15:53 pm
Is Power Armor upgrading modular like regular armor is?
Post by: Sergius on November 10, 2015, 02:26:22 pm
I only have 4GB of system memory (old-ass mobo) so I wasn't expecting to be able to run this at all, but it goes pretty well.
This gives me hope.
I'm getting a new rig in December, but maybe I can still squeeze some juice out of my current core2duo.
I just hope a 9800GTM can run the game at all.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 10, 2015, 02:33:13 pm
That said, the main disadvantage aside from limited lifespan is the low speed/maneuverability, especially since you drain cores /much/ faster while sprinting. Pretty much the only way to have power armor for a lot of encounters is to set up bases all over the map and stock them with suits.
On an unrelated note, the legendary drops are pretty sweet (and the enemies are Q.Q). Here's a list of the special effects I've encountered thusfar:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gabeux on November 10, 2015, 02:40:32 pm
On an unrelated note, the legendary drops are pretty sweet (and the enemies are Q.Q).
Yeah. I've found a Legendary Radroach. That's one thing I wasn't expecting, for sure.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 10, 2015, 02:43:48 pm
On an unrelated note, the legendary drops are pretty sweet (and the enemies are Q.Q).
Yeah. I've found a Legendary Radroach. That's one thing I wasn't expecting, for sure.
Have you gotten a legendary sentrybot yet? FUCKING. TERRIFYING. I ran into it at night and it lit everything up in something like a 20m radius.
Post by: Graknorke on November 10, 2015, 02:46:41 pm
I encountered a boomer.Are you talking Vault 34 Boomers or something else?
Turns out the bastards lob mininukes.
Post by: Gabeux on November 10, 2015, 02:50:53 pm
On an unrelated note, the legendary drops are pretty sweet (and the enemies are Q.Q).
Yeah. I've found a Legendary Radroach. That's one thing I wasn't expecting, for sure.
Have you gotten a legendary sentrybot yet? FUCKING. TERRIFYING. I ran into it at night and it lit everything up in something like a 20m radius.
Yes. That's when I decided I could NOT play on Very Hard, and that I needed better weapons. He's sitting there quietly while I try to find some nuke to throw at him. :P
I also saw Dogmeat beat the shit of a Feral Ghoul Roamer, throwing him to the ground and all that. There are some details and animations that go down on combat now that makes it all really neat.
The way Ghouls work now are really cool. Except when they don't stop coming and you forget to look at your HP bar.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 10, 2015, 02:59:59 pm
I really am surprised by how much I like Dogmeat in combat. That dog's judo throw is quite helpful.
Post by: umiman on November 10, 2015, 03:03:32 pm
You'll probably want that perk that increases core use time, then.Which one is that?
Is Power Armor upgrading modular like regular armor is?
And yeah, it is.
Post by: RoguelikeRazuka on November 10, 2015, 03:32:35 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 10, 2015, 03:32:56 pm
runs great with 6gb system ram 2gb vram, tho i had to reduce texture resolution manually to high as autosetup put everything on ultra.P-P-PARDON
GO ON
YES WHAT I MAY JUST HAVE PERKED UP LIKE A TINY DOG WOULD
Post by: Knave on November 10, 2015, 03:34:17 pm
How does it play guys? Buy or not to buy?
If you like the Fallout 3/NV games and Skyrim go for it. lots of content.
If you didn't like the format of those games, then I'd say pass.
From what I played last night I enjoyed it quite a bit so far.
Post by: Gabeux on November 10, 2015, 04:20:10 pm
How does it play guys? Buy or not to buy?
If you like the Fallout 3/NV games and Skyrim go for it. lots of content.
If you didn't like the format of those games, then I'd say pass.
From what I played last night I enjoyed it quite a bit so far.
I think it's also fair to mention that someone who liked Fallout 3/NV/Skyrim but remembers all the annoyances, should know that the annoyances have been minimized.
Like simply giving your companion gear, and pressing button to tell them to equip it. I had to mod Skyrim for that to work properly without pissing me off, for instance.
And the best feature, of course, is finding something like a dog bandana and equipping Dogmeat with it.
He's wearing a skull bandana, so cute!
I think I already like this dog too much.
Post by: Astral on November 10, 2015, 04:46:58 pm
Plus, Skyrim's companions in particular were really bad about not hitting traps and getting stuck on them. Repeatedly. Until you got bored and killed or dismissed them.
Post by: Shadowlord on November 10, 2015, 05:09:49 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 10, 2015, 05:12:23 pm
http://www.oldradioworld.com/shows/A_Canticle_for_Liebowitz.php
(I know it's based on a book but this is far more convenient)
Post by: Culise on November 10, 2015, 05:13:33 pm
Post by: MDFification on November 10, 2015, 05:27:05 pm
Post by: miauw62 on November 10, 2015, 05:38:30 pm
Really, this game is easy to describe. It's a Bethesda game. Longer version: It has quite a few neat QoL things such as being able to browse small inventories easily without opening a menu or pausing the game. However, it also has a companion of questionable utility which I feel morally obliged to keep alive, so there's that. I may also just leave him, take the solo perk and play solo, like in Skyrim. Also, random junk has a use now, which is pretty cool!
Has anybody been using the app? I didn't order a pip-boy, but I did end up squeeing at the demo mode of the app for a good ten minutes :P
Didn't bother to hook it up yet, but the map looks pretty convenient.
And man, I'm having a hard time choosing perks. There's just soo many, and I have no idea how useful any of them are and there's so many of them x.x
Spoiler: very small spoilers (click to show/hide)
Which reminds me, the dialogue subtitles seem really buggy, especially when there's multiple people talking. I also can't just read and then skip the speech,because you can't skip. Oh well, that'll be easily modded.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 10, 2015, 05:52:20 pm
Which reminds me, the dialogue subtitles seem really buggy, especially when there's multiple people talking. I also can't just read and then skip the speech,because you can't skip. Oh well, that'll be easily modded.
I've found the subtitles pretty buggy, but I can skip with my controller (yes, I know, but I'm used to it for Fallout) with the a button.
Post by: miauw62 on November 10, 2015, 06:17:57 pm
I will keep trying. did I mention I named my character frisk?
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 10, 2015, 06:18:34 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on November 10, 2015, 06:24:33 pm
Also, I just found a legendary sniper rifle with a +25% damage modifier.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 10, 2015, 06:35:08 pm
Also, apparently, there's a Winterization mod for power armor that increases Energy Resistance.
Fallout 3 flashbacks (from 2 months ago)...
Post by: Sonlirain on November 10, 2015, 06:41:18 pm
http://imgur.com/gallery/p8PLoko
Because funny.
EDIT: Ok it's not really funny.
Post by: miauw62 on November 10, 2015, 06:44:05 pm
I'm about 95% certain that the positioning of the Perception bobblehead was a joke. Considering that it's in the background for the first real dialogue in the first quest chain you find.Also, yeah, the irony of the Perception bobblehead being in plain sight did occur to me :P
Also, I just found a legendary sniper rifle with a +25% damage modifier.
Maybe I'll find the Strength one under a novelty pillow.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 10, 2015, 06:52:53 pm
Post by: Aseaheru on November 10, 2015, 06:53:19 pm
Thats just really horrible...
Post by: Neonivek on November 10, 2015, 06:54:26 pm
Yeah, domestic abuse jokes are hilarious, especially when they're racist at the same time.
Haven't you watch an anime? Or Familiar of Zero? CLEARLY domestic abuse is absolutely hilarious!
Post by: Sonlirain on November 10, 2015, 07:17:37 pm
Yeah, domestic abuse jokes are hilarious, especially when they're racist at the same time.
There is a difference between laughing at victims of domestic abuse and at the game for letting you do that in the character editor.
Also The Movies did it first.
https://youtu.be/DleUQZhRusI?list=PL5388264B47513EAB&t=177
(This is actually one of the scripts generated by the game.)
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 10, 2015, 07:28:51 pm
Freedom of creation is the player's responsibility, not the game's.
Also it... doesn't matter who did it first? It isn't funny.
Whatever, though. I'm not derailing this thread any more.
Post by: Shadowlord on November 10, 2015, 07:36:50 pm
Just droping it here.
http://imgur.com/gallery/p8PLoko
Because funny.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26452959/PicardFacepalm64.png)
Post by: Putnam on November 10, 2015, 07:38:46 pm
and then i was like "oh what the fuck"
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 10, 2015, 08:40:58 pm
Post by: umiman on November 10, 2015, 08:48:31 pm
Post by: Putnam on November 10, 2015, 08:53:50 pm
oblivion and skyrim both had mods that provided such things with a spell, too
Post by: jocan2003 on November 10, 2015, 09:22:05 pm
I got tired of hauling junk from one settlement to the next just to build shit so I decided to just cheat for it instead. I still don't understand why you can't just have all your materials stored in a central location.It is in fact a perk wich is the settlement connetion thingy i think?
Post by: Neonivek on November 10, 2015, 09:22:26 pm
How "good looking" everyone is. I remember when people would have tumors, lesions, and scars all befitting the nuclear wasteland they live in.
Yet this fallout looks like they captured fashion models (and frankly... some of the voice acting sounds like that too... Especially the female raiders). No one as much as has a blemish on them.
3 had the excuse of not really having the ability to model that.
Post by: Putnam on November 10, 2015, 09:25:19 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 10, 2015, 09:26:03 pm
I got tired of hauling junk from one settlement to the next just to build shit so I decided to just cheat for it instead. I still don't understand why you can't just have all your materials stored in a central location.
You need to estabilish a convoy between settlements to link their workshop inventories. Needs the Local Leader perk.
EDIT: Oh, finally got into my first bugs. There's a place that when quick saving/quick loading, the props gets launched to space and corpses go crazy.
I saw a body flying from the bottom of a lake and flailing all around.
Not only that, the game crashed for the first time.
Spoiler: Location (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sartain on November 10, 2015, 09:56:11 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Putnam on November 10, 2015, 09:59:14 pm
EDIT: wait no one of the weird hippies is, of course it's one of the weird hippies
But yeah, Hakunin would repeatedly give you visions to try to bring you back to the main quest in Fallout 2.
Post by: Sonlirain on November 10, 2015, 10:24:26 pm
Psykers are definitely a part of fallout lore. Surprised they didn't have any in 3 outside the DLCs.
EDIT: wait no one of the weird hippies is, of course it's one of the weird hippies
But yeah, Hakunin would repeatedly give you visions to try to bring you back to the main quest in Fallout 2.
Remember that fallout 2 also had a magical super mutant summoner as well.
He'd summon an entire army of mutant pets out of thin air before going OOM and deciding to close in and cast "fist" instead.
If they are ever going to add someone gifted with ESP they better be badly mutated looking more like The Master than anything else... and hey master was a fun design they never used leaving most mutants mostly recognisable humans/animals. Would be funnier if they added more weird abominations like centaurs floaters and aliens/wanamingos.
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 10, 2015, 10:59:34 pm
Gone are the days of the Skyrim/Oblivion camera-grab! Gone are the days of staring at expressionless AI faces as they drone on!
Now it feels like they actually put effort into the dialogues. The use of camera angles and actual facial expressions (while not as good as they could be) make the experience so much more cinematic.
Post by: redwallzyl on November 10, 2015, 11:22:19 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT_JR1oA1Fg
Post by: Ehndras on November 10, 2015, 11:24:13 pm
Post by: Vendayn on November 10, 2015, 11:36:39 pm
But after playing both a female and a male, I doubt I'll ever play a female in this game. I don't enjoy my female character at all. usually (not always) i go with a female character in games (didn't like males at all in skyrim, nor fallout 3 or new vegas), depending on what genre of game, races and how the males look, amongst factors. But in this case, the female doesn't really fit the pacing and world that bethesda made because of her backstory.
the male however fits so much better. The females previous job wasn't a combat job at all, it wasn't even leading people, and in the game you suddenly go to building a settlement (which doesn't fit her at all)
the male's previous job however fits perfectly. I mean, his current job in present times (in the game) isn't really very different from what he was doing before. It makes sense for him to suddenly go in and start ramboing it up against raiders (not so much the female) and I can see him building a safe haven as well.
The female, its way too jarring playing as one. A backstory of no attacking or anything, suddenly going into power armor, big guns...building a settlement...fits so much more with the male due to his backstory before the bombs fell.
after going back to my male character, I'm enjoying the game a lot more ;P Even if its just a backstory and doesn't really effect the game, its still part of it and kind of very jarring knowing what it is and knowing everything I was doing on the female didn't fit her at all.
Post by: redwallzyl on November 10, 2015, 11:41:13 pm
Is it on PC? just how good a pc do you need? I hope my piece of shit laptop can run it. :| Im too broke atm to afford a PS4/XOne any time soon.yes its pc
Post by: Aseaheru on November 10, 2015, 11:41:42 pm
Is it on PC? just how good a pc do you need? I hope my piece of shit laptop can run it. :| Im too broke atm to afford a PS4/XOne any time soon.
Its on PC, and heres a link to one of the places with system requirements
Stuff (http://www.pcgamer.com/fallout-4-system-requirements-released/)
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 10, 2015, 11:43:45 pm
I mean, really? Not taking matters into your own hands is practically suicide in the Wasteland, especially when you're on your own. :P
Also, you... don't need to build a settlement that isn't for yourself. I think. So.
Post by: Shadowlord on November 10, 2015, 11:44:33 pm
Post by: Ehndras on November 10, 2015, 11:45:46 pm
It isnt out on PS3, is it? That's all I have.
Post by: Sergius on November 10, 2015, 11:51:39 pm
Post by: Aseaheru on November 11, 2015, 12:12:30 am
*Sigh* Nope. My laptop will definitely not handle the game. Ah fuck. :( No Fallout 4 for me for a few months.
It isnt out on PS3, is it? That's all I have.
Dosent look like it. PS4 and the Xbone, yes.
Post by: Ehndras on November 11, 2015, 12:16:33 am
Post by: Vendayn on November 11, 2015, 12:30:42 am
That's odd. Usually both male and female characters would have the same backstory (previous Bethesda), or let you choose a backstory (DA:O). Even in Fable III you were either a prince or a princess, the only change was your girlfriend or boyfriend at the start of the game.
not so much in fallout 4. If you explore the pre-war house and examine all the objects and stuff, it gives both the male and female their own background sort of. You can still decide the future of the character, just not the past part of it, unless you ignore the pre-war stuff.
And yeah I can see how you'd be forced to use a gun and stuff, but it still felt more jarring as the female who presumably never used a gun (guess you could make it where she went to the gun range or something), where as the male almost for sure did.
But if you ignore the settlement part (which seems to be a big feature of the game), the pacing is still a bit weird overall, which probably makes the female not as fun to play (at least for me). The pacing even when skipping the settlement stuff, doesn't seem quite right. It was good in the pre-war, good in the vault...but get outside and suddenly a whole bunch of stuff is thrown at you. Heck, it only took 15 minutes of leaving the vault to meet and join a faction, about 3-4 minutes to get power armor (but can't use it very much, so its not OP, the power cells are very rare it seems) and it all seems not like how fallout 3/nv and even skyrim was paced at. Which goes back to the male's backstory kinda makes it better in that he'd probably already have some experience in a survival setting. And I don't even rush through games, it takes me ages to even finish the main quest or do anything in most open world games lol. But fallout 4 pacing seems...vastly different than anything else by bethesda. And its like an entirely different game to me almost, so much is different.
I do love fallout 4 a lot, it just doesn't seem like a bethesda game at all. Its so different than fallout 3 and NV (which wasn't bethesda) or even skyrim. And the pacing is...not quite right. its like the game could have been from a different company to me lol.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 11, 2015, 01:16:08 am
Spoiler: The aesthetic they went with is amazing as well. (click to show/hide)
See that white scope I found for my sniper rifle?
Spoiler: Turns out the MGS V team weren't the only ones working this mechanic in. (click to show/hide)
It can't be all good, though.
Spoiler: I found my first wall without collision on top of a ruined skyscraper. (click to show/hide)
Also!
I'm definitely loving the new dialogue system.The best part? You can literally walk away. No button to close the dialogue, just start moving away from the person you're talking to.
Gone are the days of the Skyrim/Oblivion camera-grab! Gone are the days of staring at expressionless AI faces as they drone on!
Now it feels like they actually put effort into the dialogues. The use of camera angles and actual facial expressions (while not as good as they could be) make the experience so much more cinematic.
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 11, 2015, 01:20:39 am
I mean, sure, they're cool. But what else do they provide other than shops and crafting stations? Both of which aren't exclusive to settlements. (but settlement shops can apparently hold the best items?)
So far the 'actual' benefits I'm seeing are monetary income and minuteman support. Though I'm still not clear on the details of the latter. The minuteman guy tells you that you'll get more support as your influence grows, but what exactly does that mean? Does more soldiers assigned to defense mean more people helping me? Is it just more total population = more help? Or something else..?
But yeah. Are there any other benefits to building settlements than what I stated?
Post by: Flying Dice on November 11, 2015, 01:26:15 am
But yeah, mostly shops since there are a lot fewer in FO4 than in previous games. Also, safe place to dump your loot and craft.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 11, 2015, 01:27:59 am
Post by: motorbitch on November 11, 2015, 01:32:11 am
also, keybindings. i always have to take my hand from the fuckin mouse cause i have to use the bloody enter key to confirm scrap or store, and i cant rebind it.
bloody mess this ui. no idea if i would have enjoyed this with a better ui, but as it is, i totally HATE it.
Post by: Yoink on November 11, 2015, 02:33:45 am
Hopefully two of my housemates and I will be all chipping in to buy it soon.
Post by: Ultimuh on November 11, 2015, 02:38:48 am
Then again..
I have not been to
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Wiles on November 11, 2015, 02:45:49 am
Post by: Catastrophic lolcats on November 11, 2015, 02:48:53 am
So uh is there anyway to get the dog back? I lost him in the first 5 minutes of having him. I have no idea where he went, he just up and disappeared.Probably fell through the world like all the other Bethesda games. There will likely already be a step by step on how to teleport NPCs back to you or maybe the commands haven't even changed from the third game.
Post by: Putnam on November 11, 2015, 03:02:57 am
Post by: Gabeux on November 11, 2015, 03:03:19 am
If you do that and sleep for a few hours and he still doesn't appear, then console ftw. I didn't need to use it yet, though, so I have no idea how to do that.
Post by: Rose on November 11, 2015, 04:36:58 am
Post by: sprinkled chariot on November 11, 2015, 04:52:31 am
Post by: Astral on November 11, 2015, 05:01:30 am
building buildings is driving me INSANE. such a horrible way to do it.
also, keybindings. i always have to take my hand from the fuckin mouse cause i have to use the bloody enter key to confirm scrap or store, and i cant rebind it.
bloody mess this ui. no idea if i would have enjoyed this with a better ui, but as it is, i totally HATE it.
E works as Enter as well. It was bugging me until I figured that out. R-E-R-E-R-E for wakka wakka scrapping.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 11, 2015, 05:32:37 am
Slight Armour spoilers for early game.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Virtz on November 11, 2015, 05:33:20 am
Also useful hint for construction mode - SHIFT+WASD works like the arrow keys, so you don't have to reach over to the right side of the keyboard for anything.building buildings is driving me INSANE. such a horrible way to do it.
also, keybindings. i always have to take my hand from the fuckin mouse cause i have to use the bloody enter key to confirm scrap or store, and i cant rebind it.
bloody mess this ui. no idea if i would have enjoyed this with a better ui, but as it is, i totally HATE it.
E works as Enter as well. It was bugging me until I figured that out. R-E-R-E-R-E for wakka wakka scrapping.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 11, 2015, 05:37:05 am
!! Thank you!Also useful hint for construction mode - SHIFT+WASD works like the arrow keys, so you don't have to reach over to the right side of the keyboard for anything.building buildings is driving me INSANE. such a horrible way to do it.
also, keybindings. i always have to take my hand from the fuckin mouse cause i have to use the bloody enter key to confirm scrap or store, and i cant rebind it.
bloody mess this ui. no idea if i would have enjoyed this with a better ui, but as it is, i totally HATE it.
E works as Enter as well. It was bugging me until I figured that out. R-E-R-E-R-E for wakka wakka scrapping.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on November 11, 2015, 06:04:57 am
Also useful hint for construction mode - SHIFT+WASD works like the arrow keys, so you don't have to reach over to the right side of the keyboard for anything.Does this work for dialog as well?
Post by: Facekillz058 on November 11, 2015, 06:13:51 am
Slight Armour spoilers for early game.Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 11, 2015, 06:18:36 am
Slight Armour spoilers for early game.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
question: are enemies levelled to scale with you?
Post by: Virtz on November 11, 2015, 06:22:35 am
No idea. I always used the mouse in dialogue. Try it, tho.Also useful hint for construction mode - SHIFT+WASD works like the arrow keys, so you don't have to reach over to the right side of the keyboard for anything.Does this work for dialog as well?
EDIT: For dialogues, you can use number keys in a rather unintuitive fashion. 1 is up, 2 is left, 3 is right, 4 is down.
Post by: Aseaheru on November 11, 2015, 06:59:32 am
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on November 11, 2015, 07:08:51 am
Post by: Sartain on November 11, 2015, 07:26:08 am
Alright, I'm officially confused, how do you attach mods you've already created onto your weapons?
I think you just build them and it'll take the mod from inventory instead of using the materials. But the whole crafting system is a bit weird so not completely sure.
Post by: Blargityblarg on November 11, 2015, 07:30:35 am
Alright, I'm officially confused, how do you attach mods you've already created onto your weapons?
You should be able to do it the same way you build new mods? if you already have an instance of a specific mod, applying it to a weapon will use it rather than trying to build a new one
Post by: Puzzlemaker on November 11, 2015, 08:24:40 am
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on November 11, 2015, 08:52:04 am
Also, figured out the weapons mod problem, turns out, pipe bolt-action gun mods are counted separate from the more usual semi–auto ones.
In other news, I now have three unique weapons.
Post by: NullForceOmega on November 11, 2015, 08:58:15 am
Edit: I specifically mean players actually using the systems in game, not Bethesda's self-promotion.
Post by: miljan on November 11, 2015, 09:14:49 am
Post by: Aseaheru on November 11, 2015, 09:32:01 am
Okay, I'm willing to give Bethesda a chance on the gameplay (but I've already seen how they are butchering story), can someone point me in the direction of some videos showing some actual mechanics? All the videos I've seen so far are just dudes running around shooting things CoD style, I'd like to see some hard info on crafting, base building, etc.
Edit: I specifically mean players actually using the systems in game, not Bethesda's self-promotion.
Well, theres EnterElysium faffing about a bit with stuff (https://youtu.be/RMFuJIFgLVc?t=2m12s), ah... Splattercat spending some time messing about too (https://youtu.be/YNVLn_cXTCs?t=2m28s), but thats about all I got.
Splattercats vid starts a bit early, due to him rambling straight into messing with stuff.
Post by: motorbitch on November 11, 2015, 09:42:18 am
time on the save shows 11.5h, i spend at least 6 of these hours fighting the ui in an attempt to build a fence around my settlement.
inconsistent and illogical keybindings, a snap feature that makes it impossible to build stuff near other stuff exept in a straight line, a camera that makes it almost impossbile to tell where the thing you build will be placed - its almost as if this was made by some sadist with the singular intention to torture the player.
i proalby should ignore this whole feature, and just place the few required structures into the middle of the base under the claer sky. i realy doubt the game checks if there are roofs above the beds or that ill ever see a real assault on the settlements.
gnaaaa. i realy want to like this game, and aside of settlement management it proably even is quite good.. but this building shit is making it damn hard for me.
Post by: ThtblovesDF on November 11, 2015, 10:11:32 am
Apperently you can put a bucket on a shopkeepers head to steal there stuff. Back in fallout3/nv I had to carry the weapons out of his line of sight in a bucket.
Post by: redwallzyl on November 11, 2015, 10:19:40 am
so i like this whole postapocalyptic setting so much i keep playing it, but objecively, the controlls are so deeply fucked up, i should just uninstall this.i don't have the game but you should be able to rebind keys if you hate the key bindings so much.
time on the save shows 11.5h, i spend at least 6 of these hours fighting the ui in an attempt to build a fence around my settlement.
inconsistent and illogical keybindings, a snap feature that makes it impossible to build stuff near other stuff exept in a straight line, a camera that makes it almost impossbile to tell where the thing you build will be placed - its almost as if this was made by some sadist with the singular intention to torture the player.
i proalby should ignore this whole feature, and just place the few required structures into the middle of the base under the claer sky. i realy doubt the game checks if there are roofs above the beds or that ill ever see a real assault on the settlements.
gnaaaa. i realy want to like this game, and aside of settlement management it proably even is quite good.. but this building shit is making it damn hard for me.
Post by: NullForceOmega on November 11, 2015, 11:13:06 am
That said, the negative views on dialog/interaction are really big red flags, can someone who is actually playing give me a solid breakdown on just what level of limitations are here? Is this Mass Effect level restrictive? Worse? Better?
Is the plot as bad as the sidequest writing? (I've already seen that they reused the 'robot who acts like a revolutionary' bit.)
Post by: nenjin on November 11, 2015, 11:37:01 am
So I'm kinda looking at this game as FO3 plus a ton of stuff. And trying to decide if that's worth getting it now and putting up with the bugs.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 11, 2015, 11:40:17 am
I really want to play it. So badly. But I don't have the cash to buy a new PC.
Post by: motorbitch on November 11, 2015, 11:45:37 am
Post by: miauw62 on November 11, 2015, 11:49:52 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 11, 2015, 11:57:55 am
Post by: BigD145 on November 11, 2015, 12:01:32 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 11, 2015, 12:06:59 pm
Post by: nenjin on November 11, 2015, 12:19:44 pm
Post by: Sonlirain on November 11, 2015, 12:23:01 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 11, 2015, 12:26:16 pm
Turns out there's a solid chance of getting a new PC for Christmas. ANOTHER MONTH OF WAITING. BRING IT ON, DESPERATION.
Hooraaaaaaay,
Post by: nenjin on November 11, 2015, 12:31:35 pm
Considering the game went into a negative steam review valley (most new reviews are negative now even tho the game keeps a positive score) i'd say not buying it and waiting for discounts and modder fixes is the best course of action.
Part of that is just the Day 1 or 2 newness wearing off. As time progresses, the butthurtness of the average PC gamer approaches 1.
But yeah. The bugs, the lack of PC-level input mapping, several other things, are keeping me from hitting the buy button. I honestly don't need another 80 hour time waster at the moment, despite how appealing the base building sounds.
Post by: Guardian G.I. on November 11, 2015, 12:43:19 pm
Post by: silverskull39 on November 11, 2015, 12:46:41 pm
Haven't really gotten far enough to play around much with perks and mods etc.
Post by: motorbitch on November 11, 2015, 12:47:29 pm
Post by: nenjin on November 11, 2015, 12:55:46 pm
The user score for the PC version at Metacritic is whooping 4.7/10.
Judging by a slice of those reviews (http://www.thejimquisition.com/2015/11/metabombed-fallout-4-is-vomit-trash/), many people seem to have amnesia when it comes to Bethesda games. Honestly, if you bought FO4 and then ran to Metacritic to bitch about how the game was dumbed down, you should have your hands taken away from you, so you can neither type nor buy games.
Because if you've paid any attention to Beth games since fucking Oblivion, you'll know that every successor they put is a streamlined version of its predecessor. So I don't have sympathy for people who bought it and feel like there was a bait and switch. They lied to themselves, effectively, and are trying to rationalize it on Metacritic.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 11, 2015, 12:56:44 pm
Okay, I have to admit that the crafting looks extremely compelling, and the FPS/gunplay has been tremendously improved from 3/NV (not that I give a damn about gunplay.)The people whining about the new dialogue don't know what they're on about. It's a massive improvement in just about every way over Bethesda's old dialogue system.
That said, the negative views on dialog/interaction are really big red flags, can someone who is actually playing give me a solid breakdown on just what level of limitations are here? Is this Mass Effect level restrictive? Worse? Better?
Is the plot as bad as the sidequest writing? (I've already seen that they reused the 'robot who acts like a revolutionary' bit.)
Camera:
+Not locked.
+Switches between close-ups of both you and the person you're talking to as well as broader shots.
+You can literally end conversations by walking away.
+People emote like a vague semblance of real people.
-People still have dead fisheyes.
-Mouth flaps occasionally stutter.
Mechanics: JESUS FUCK THANK YOU NO MORE OF THAT SHITTY DIALOGUE MENU
Options: I've never really felt that I didn't have an option that fit my character. Thanks, probably, to not binding any to a karma system (since FO4 doesn't have one, thank fuck). Usually there's at least one Dudley Doright nice option, one sarcastic option and/or bitter option, one largely toneless option, and one angry/asshole option, but things vary pretty wildly between conversations. CHA challenges show up as differently-colored, with easy ones in gold growing progressively redder as the difficulty increases. That's baseline difficulty, incidentally, not something tied to your CHA.
Also, I savescummed to check, and the CHA/speech challenges are definitely percentage-based on the backend rather than flat have-X succeed-challenge; I failed and succeeded at the same one without any change in my stats or circumstances.
So very much less restrictive than ME. They didn't do a bad job tailoring different options for different sorts of conversation, either. Keep in mind that any of your initial choices branches out into new trees of choices.
The overall plot still looks trite and predictable though.
Slight Armour spoilers for early game.Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
question: are enemies levelled to scale with you?
I'm not entirely certain, but I think not entirely. The sort of common ghouls which gave me utter hell in my early levels just showed up at a little abandoned cabin I discovered and blew apart to rounds from my pimped-out pistol. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that difficulty is largely location-based, and that some places will scale more than others--I've found places already that I simply had to run away from because I wouldn't have been able to take them without cheating, namely a Deathclaw spawn at ~level 8 and a giant base full of 15-20 super-mutants at ~level 10.
KILLSlight Armour spoilers for early game.Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
LOOT
RETURN
But no seriously though, I've got about twenty-odd from that.
Post by: Wiles on November 11, 2015, 01:00:51 pm
Post by: Sirian on November 11, 2015, 01:04:49 pm
Considering the game went into a negative steam review valley (most new reviews are negative now even tho the game keeps a positive score) i'd say not buying it and waiting for discounts and modder fixes is the best course of action.
I think it's mostly because people had overblown expectations thanks to all the hype.
If you look at it objectively, it's a good game, even if there are a few issues. In my case, I had to find the ini files (not the ones in the game folder, these do nothing) and fiddle with them because the game doesn't seem to support 4:3 display. And after fixing that, I had to fiddle some more so that the lockpicking minigame would stop being invisible in that resolution. Other than that, sure the interface was obviously made for consoles, but considering that I often play emulated games and console ports, it doesn't really annoy me.
I also realized that one of the features I disliked the most in Fallout3/NV was the VATS, I think that it breaks immersion by pausing the action, and annoys me when I miss shots because of RNG (also the slow mo kills get tiring quickly). So, in my current game, I have forsaken the VATS completely (which means that I can afford to have low scores on half of the stats), and I'm playing it alternatively as a 1st or 3rd person shooter. I find 3rd person more accurate but sometimes, indoors, it messes with the camera and it's hard to tell if there's an obstacle between your gun and the target. 1st person however is better when exploring.
The part that I like the most so far is the crafting and, more specifically, the recycling aspect. I just love being able to clean up the rubble, getting rid of all the old crap sitting around, and make it as nice and pretty as I can. I'm just a bit sad that most of the things you can build look old and/or scrappy. I kinda wish I could have made stuff that looks as clean as what you can see before the war. I'm sort of hoping that you can find better blueprints later on.
Regardless, I'm really happy that I can unleash my inner packrat and take all the things, knowing they can be turned into materials :)
Post by: NullForceOmega on November 11, 2015, 01:08:00 pm
My graphics card is an older Nvidia GTX 465 with 1 GB of VRAM, would it be able to handle the game at all, or should I just hold off until tax return time? (I should be fine with everything else I think, tho' my i5 is getting a little long in the tooth as well.)
Post by: Drakale on November 11, 2015, 01:13:59 pm
Quite enjoying it so far, not doing any quest at all, just exploring.
Post by: umiman on November 11, 2015, 01:18:58 pm
The population, beds, and happiness figures just change randomly every time I check it.
I've played about 24 hours now and I still haven't gone into Diamond City yet or seen it. All I've been doing is building settlements. The "no bed" bug is a huge source of headaches though. It refuses to assign beds properly.
Also I went from level 15 to 21 not fighting a single thing...
Post by: Virtz on November 11, 2015, 01:33:13 pm
So very much less restrictive than ME.Nope.
Only ever 4 options. Always 4 options. Never more, never less. No "Ask about" subsection either. Just top option is always ask about thing, then about another thing, then about another, in linear fashion until topics run out. If you missed something you cannot reask besides the last question.
It's become a way better acton game, but a worse RPG. Two steps forward, one step back and all that.
Post by: Sirian on November 11, 2015, 01:37:08 pm
I managed to exceed the population limit for Sanctuary and I think it borked the game. The stats on it keep jumping around like it doesn't know what's going on any more.
The population, beds, and happiness figures just change randomly every time I check it.
I've played about 24 hours now and I still haven't gone into Diamond City yet or seen it. All I've been doing is building settlements. The "no bed" bug is a huge source of headaches though. It refuses to assign beds properly.
Also I went from level 15 to 21 not fighting a single thing...
Uh well at that point your best bet is probably to reload an earlier save...
By the way, I heard that your residents tend to jump inside your power armor if there is a hostile in the settlement, with an unpleasant tendency to bug the whole thing and turn into weird monstrosities. So I suggest everyone to keep their armor in a place where it won't be "borrowed".
So very much less restrictive than ME.Nope.
Only ever 4 options. Always 4 options. Never more, never less. No "Ask about" subsection either. Just top option is always ask about thing, then about another thing, then about another, in linear fashion until topics run out. If you missed something you cannot reask besides the last question.
It's become a way better acton game, but a worse RPG. Two steps forward, one step back and all that.
One thing you can do to circumvent that is to step out of the conversation and re-initiate it. It should restart from the beginning, allowing you to choose other options. Also some options seem to be able to branch out the dialogue tree, even if I agree that most of the time it's really linear.
Post by: umiman on November 11, 2015, 01:39:08 pm
I managed to exceed the population limit for Sanctuary and I think it borked the game. The stats on it keep jumping around like it doesn't know what's going on any more.
The population, beds, and happiness figures just change randomly every time I check it.
I've played about 24 hours now and I still haven't gone into Diamond City yet or seen it. All I've been doing is building settlements. The "no bed" bug is a huge source of headaches though. It refuses to assign beds properly.
Also I went from level 15 to 21 not fighting a single thing...
Uh well at that point your best bet is probably to reload an earlier save...
By the way, I heard that your residents tend to jump inside your power armor if there is a hostile in the settlement, with an unpleasant tendency to bug the whole thing and turn into weird monstrosities. So I suggest everyone to keep their armor in a place where it won't be "borrowed".
Wat. Screw that. That armor is for my use! Thanks for the info. Putting my shit on top of a tower.
Post by: Gabeux on November 11, 2015, 01:59:58 pm
Settelements definitely have some weirdness in them. In my case, Sanctuary stopped receiving new people and stopped at 7 for many hours. I even setup another beacon to see if the effects stack.
I have beds, food and water to support 14+ people, around 35 defence. No one wants to be my
I've setup a supply link to the farm-settlement nearby to see if I can put a beacon there and if people will spawn in it.
I'm 1 level from building shops, it will be really sad if it doesn't work anymore. I'll have to build other settlements, recruit people there, and move them all to Sanctuary.
I also like how some locations are "secret settlements" (only if you're blind, like I sometimes am), which enables you to scrap a good amount of stuff. Some really neat locations, too.
And about the reviews.. well, while people rate the game 2/10 and rage on for obvious stuff, I'm looking forward to fixes, improvements and mods. Most of us already knew what we would get. This sounds incredibly stupid to me: the game is fun, I only experienced very few bugs in almost 20 hours of gameplay, and WHAT THE FUCK WHERE DID THAT RADSCORPION CAME FROM? ...Yep, everything is as good as I wanted.
I don't like the linearity of dialogs, but I prefer it much better than the old camera-lock-big-menu. And I don't feel like I'm missing any info when talking, either.
The only thing that's really bad and should be improved are the settlement placement controls. They need to put some modifier keys that lets you rotate faster, rotate to right angles, etc. Setting a perimeter around Sanctuary was a masochist experience. Build buildings is also annoying because you have to rotate it perfectly, otherwise it'll expand on the wrong direction.
And did anyone bump into an assassin-bot that's rather ninja and fires an epic laser through his eye? I had very little HP, was on power armor, didn't even see him and he murdered me. Then I couldn't find him after I reloaded. Had a skull on its name, roaming around. Looked pretty cool.
EDIT: Someone said they haven't seen raiders attacking settlements. I only saw they attack a place that didn't had the proper defence score.
They didn't attack Sanctuary in my game yet, either because it's bugged or because I keep the defence score twice higher than necessary.
Post by: umiman on November 11, 2015, 02:15:22 pm
Settelements definitely have some weirdness in them. In my case, Sanctuary stopped receiving new people and stopped at 7 for many hours. I even setup another beacon to see if the effects stack.I don't really understand it either. I did what you did. I made a bunch of radio towers and asked everyone to move to Sanctuary. Now there's 21 people in Sanctuary and 10 everywhere else. I think the game just dice rolls after a certain amount of time to see whether you get a new settler or not. By the way, stacking radio towers don't work. I did it at Sanctuary and it didn't do anything.
I have beds, food and water to support 14+ people, around 35 defence. No one wants to be myslavefriend.
I've setup a supply link to the farm-settlement nearby to see if I can put a beacon there and if people will spawn in it.
I'm 1 level from building shops, it will be really sad if it doesn't work anymore. I'll have to build other settlements, recruit people there, and move them all to Sanctuary.
With the other places, they'd be at 0 or 1 for the longest time. Then I'd do something for a bit then check and it'd be 6 out of nowhere and I have to rush there and build a bunch of stuff.
Post by: Putnam on November 11, 2015, 02:20:13 pm
Is there any console coomand for unlocking locks? As locks dont show up in unlocking minigame.
unlock
Post by: motorbitch on November 11, 2015, 02:26:17 pm
the problem i have, is that my choices always are shown in like 2-3 words, then i have to guess what i will say if i pick a certain choice.
i can handle it tho, by restarting the conversation, or save scumming if necessary,
after all, the system allows me to make my choices, and lets me decide if i want to do something and for whom. anything more is an illusion in any computer rpg. after all, i will always be limeted to pick a line someone else has written for me.
as for vats: yeah screw that. never used it in any f3+. i still need the attributes tho. agi for stealth and perks, perception for perks.
speaking of attributes, f4 is the first fallout where i do not use charisma as a dump stat.
Post by: Niveras on November 11, 2015, 02:28:22 pm
I've had the problem intermittently with other games but happens with high frequency in FO4. Like, I'll rarely get more than an hour, maybe less than 30 minutes, into a session before it happens. If I try to reload the game immediately and continue playing it may happen again in less than that time. That leads me to suspect overheating (or some other issue resulting from taxing the card) but, again, no idea how to really diagnose it.
Post by: Leyic on November 11, 2015, 02:35:33 pm
What was the last AAA game you tried to play where your integrated graphics card cut it?I only have Intel HD 4600 integrated graphics and I've been playing Fallout 4 just fine. At low settings (except maximum actor view distance) I get 15-25 fps outdoors. I can feel the frames sometimes, but it's never been bad enough where I wanted to quit. Basically the same goes for Shadow of Mordor, Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes, and Elder Scrolls Online (in PvP no less). So integrated graphics can be sufficient if they're fast enough and you don't require the game to be glitzy and silky smooth.
Granted, the person you're responding to says they have Intel HD (no number) graphics, which is quite a bit slower than HD 4600, so they might not find FO4 playable.
Post by: SealyStar on November 11, 2015, 02:37:25 pm
i think the new dialoge system indeed is troublesome. not because the 4 options, thats actually fine with me.I always wondered why more games with the dialog-wheel system didn't do what DE:HR did and let you mouse (or, uh, control stick) over the option to see what the full text would be. It's such a simple fix for what is easily the dialog wheel's biggest flaw that it's hard to believe any game since wouldn't use it unless Eidos patented it or some bullshit
the problem i have, is that my choices always are shown in like 2-3 words, then i have to guess what i will say if i pick a certain choice.
Post by: Aseaheru on November 11, 2015, 02:47:28 pm
By the way, I heard that your residents tend to jump inside your power armor if there is a hostile in the settlement, with an unpleasant tendency to bug the whole thing and turn into weird monstrosities. So I suggest everyone to keep their armor in a place where it won't be "borrowed".
Do they do that when the batteries are out?
Post by: nenjin on November 11, 2015, 02:51:05 pm
The trouble with the dialog system (not the camera) is what it means for modding: one can't just tack on new dialog options to existing characters; they'd all have to fit in the four-choices-at-a-time system. Maybe someone can mod in a list based system like in Skyrim, but then that would become yet another "essential" mod for anyone playing a heavily modded FO4.What was the last AAA game you tried to play where your integrated graphics card cut it?I only have Intel HD 4600 integrated graphics and I've been playing Fallout 4 just fine. At low settings (except maximum actor view distance) I get 15-25 fps outdoors. I can feel the frames sometimes, but it's never been bad enough where I wanted to quit. Basically the same goes for Shadow of Mordor, Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes, and Elder Scrolls Online (in PvP no less). So integrated graphics can be sufficient if they're fast enough and you don't require the game to be glitzy and silky smooth.
Granted, the person you're responding to says they have Intel HD (no number) graphics, which is quite a bit slower than HD 4600, so they might not find FO4 playable.
With Integrated cards, usually it's not raw horsepower that's the issue. It's whether it's DX(whatever) compatible, or can access some feature that's vital to running the game, like a pixel shader or something. It's generally a crap shoot whether your integrated card will work period with a modern AAA game or not. Some integrated cards, such as the HD 4600, are intended for gaming laptops and are usually can access enough features for it to at least run. However to the average consumer who just goes out and buys a laptop, hoping it will run new games, the distinction is easy to miss.
Post by: motorbitch on November 11, 2015, 02:55:07 pm
it always annoyed me to have the actor speaking the same thin i just read after i read it. thats borring.
in this the very short system of fo4 actually is an improvement for my taste.
still, sometimes its a bit vague what an option means. maybe they missed the sweet spot just a little bit.
Post by: Culise on November 11, 2015, 02:58:18 pm
Post by: Zangi on November 11, 2015, 02:58:53 pm
Not gonna spoil anything (just hint at things, though there might be some, but unless your internet was off or you didn't look at the features, you'll know the features anyway)Alternate start mod is a requirement when I get this. And then I'll be like: "Huh, when did I get a kid?"
But after playing both a female and a male, I doubt I'll ever play a female in this game. I don't enjoy my female character at all. usually (not always) i go with a female character in games (didn't like males at all in skyrim, nor fallout 3 or new vegas), depending on what genre of game, races and how the males look, amongst factors. But in this case, the female doesn't really fit the pacing and world that bethesda made because of her backstory.
the male however fits so much better. The females previous job wasn't a combat job at all, it wasn't even leading people, and in the game you suddenly go to building a settlement (which doesn't fit her at all)
the male's previous job however fits perfectly. I mean, his current job in present times (in the game) isn't really very different from what he was doing before. It makes sense for him to suddenly go in and start ramboing it up against raiders (not so much the female) and I can see him building a safe haven as well.
The female, its way too jarring playing as one. A backstory of no attacking or anything, suddenly going into power armor, big guns...building a settlement...fits so much more with the male due to his backstory before the bombs fell.
after going back to my male character, I'm enjoying the game a lot more ;P Even if its just a backstory and doesn't really effect the game, its still part of it and kind of very jarring knowing what it is and knowing everything I was doing on the female didn't fit her at all.
Post by: umiman on November 11, 2015, 03:01:01 pm
The choice was "go away".
My character said "GO. AWAY."
Perfect.
Post by: Sirian on November 11, 2015, 03:11:09 pm
Is there any console coomand for unlocking locks? As locks dont show up in unlocking minigame.
I had the same issue after I changed the resolution to 1600x1200, and after some googling, I found that there's a fix : I changed the resolution to 1600x1199 and used windowed + borderless + maximize window (if I remember correctly). It's working fine now although the interface is still stretched in many places like it wasn't meant for 4:3. Alternatively I also played in borderless windowed in 1600x1000 resolution, and I wasn't as bad as I feared, I didn't even notice my desktop below the game screen while playing.
By the way, I heard that your residents tend to jump inside your power armor if there is a hostile in the settlement, with an unpleasant tendency to bug the whole thing and turn into weird monstrosities. So I suggest everyone to keep their armor in a place where it won't be "borrowed".
Do they do that when the batteries are out?
I think they don't, from what I've read.
Post by: Gabeux on November 11, 2015, 03:19:44 pm
I usually feel it's like:
Up: Curious/Extensive/Interested ("What's wrong?")
Left: Sarcastic/Smartass/Detached ("Maybe")
Right: Negative/Rejection/Insult ("You're useless")
Down: Affirmative/Just let me play/OK ('Yes")
There were few instances those were different, mostly when a persuasion attempt comes up - but it still sort of fits (Up - (Persuade) "Can I have a look around?).
I'm not 100% sure but that's how I'm considering. I usually press Up so people tell me all about things, which generally opens more options.
Post by: Sirian on November 11, 2015, 03:21:36 pm
Not gonna spoil anything (just hint at things, though there might be some, but unless your internet was off or you didn't look at the features, you'll know the features anyway)
But after playing both a female and a male, I doubt I'll ever play a female in this game. I don't enjoy my female character at all. usually (not always) i go with a female character in games (didn't like males at all in skyrim, nor fallout 3 or new vegas), depending on what genre of game, races and how the males look, amongst factors. But in this case, the female doesn't really fit the pacing and world that bethesda made because of her backstory.
the male however fits so much better. The females previous job wasn't a combat job at all, it wasn't even leading people, and in the game you suddenly go to building a settlement (which doesn't fit her at all)
the male's previous job however fits perfectly. I mean, his current job in present times (in the game) isn't really very different from what he was doing before. It makes sense for him to suddenly go in and start ramboing it up against raiders (not so much the female) and I can see him building a safe haven as well.
The female, its way too jarring playing as one. A backstory of no attacking or anything, suddenly going into power armor, big guns...building a settlement...fits so much more with the male due to his backstory before the bombs fell.
after going back to my male character, I'm enjoying the game a lot more ;P Even if its just a backstory and doesn't really effect the game, its still part of it and kind of very jarring knowing what it is and knowing everything I was doing on the female didn't fit her at all.
I really liked that I found army fatigues and a military cap in my old house right after leaving the vault (I think clothing loot is random to an extent). It felt so in-character for my ex-military guy to go back to his old uniform, also it still looks pretty badass with leather armor pieces on top, and when I'm in my settlement I feel like some sort of general supervising his recruits ^^
Post by: Gabeux on November 11, 2015, 03:28:37 pm
Is this true, and could this be the reason of why most people are aggressive ("I'm not your friend", "Quit wasting my time!") than in other games? That could also explain why the Negative dialog option includes an insult/rudeness most of the time. Or maybe it's just on the beginning.
I have no idea what I'm talking about, though. But I was wondering. :P
Post by: TheBiggerFish on November 11, 2015, 03:33:57 pm
Oh, and I've been meanings to ask. I'm not from the US, and I've heard twice (in different places) that people from Boston are more aggressive than other places.This sounds like something for the small random questions thread.
Is this true, and could this be the reason of why most people are aggressive ("I'm not your friend", "Quit wasting my time!") than in other games? That could also explain why the Negative dialog option includes an insult/rudeness most of the time. Or maybe it's just on the beginning.
I have no idea what I'm talking about, though. But I was wondering. :P
I don't actually know that much about Bostonians, to be honest. But it's really probably due to action movie badass tropes. Off the top of my head.
Post by: Graknorke on November 11, 2015, 03:37:06 pm
people from Boston are more aggressive than other places(https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/28/Track_Terrorizer.png/250px-Track_Terrorizer.png?t=20121023170821)
And wow despite my pessimism about this game, even I would say it's better than average.
Post by: MDFification on November 11, 2015, 03:38:48 pm
Integrated graphics almost never "cuts it" unless it's 10+ years old.
They cut it for AAA games made in 2014 for me.
Post by: nenjin on November 11, 2015, 03:49:00 pm
Oh, and I've been meanings to ask. I'm not from the US, and I've heard twice (in different places) that people from Boston are more aggressive than other places.
Is this true, and could this be the reason of why most people are aggressive ("I'm not your friend", "Quit wasting my time!") than in other games? That could also explain why the Negative dialog option includes an insult/rudeness most of the time. Or maybe it's just on the beginning.
I have no idea what I'm talking about, though. But I was wondering. :P
My one travel experience to Massachusetts showed me that:
-They're really foul mouthed. God they love to swear.
-They act like New Yorkers when it comes to traffic. I.e. they have zero patience and swear profusely over small annoyances, despite living an driving in a mostly idyllic pastoral countryside.
-They like to fight.
Post by: Sirian on November 11, 2015, 04:28:21 pm
I wanted to make sure that crafting something out of the junk stored in the workshop would scrap the item for all it's parts and not just the ones used for crafting. So I tried making a "glow sights" while leaving only raw materials and one junk item that had nuclear material in it. The result was that the item was gone, but the other parts (like aluminum) were lost.
If anyone knows a way to scrap junk items efficiently, please let me know, right now the only way I know to get all the parts is to drop the item and then scrap it from the workshop view. I know that you can scrap weapons in your inventory from the weapons workbench, but I haven't found a way to do it for junk items, and I don't like dropping a bunch of stuff on the ground, with the risk of physics making some stuff fly away.
Post by: SealyStar on November 11, 2015, 04:51:40 pm
My integrated graphics get me through most of 2013, and I've got a laptop.Integrated graphics almost never "cuts it" unless it's 10+ years old.
They cut it for AAA games made in 2014 for me.
EDIT: Should say that I do have to turn the graphics way down for 2013, and even 2012 can get taxing. That's why I'm not in a rush to get anything 2014-onward.
Post by: miauw62 on November 11, 2015, 04:53:39 pm
He was obviously unable to play anything 3D,but most things seemed to work, somehow.
Post by: Sirian on November 11, 2015, 05:02:24 pm
I've just noticed something pretty alarming while doing some tests with scrapping junk.
I wanted to make sure that crafting something out of the junk stored in the workshop would scrap the item for all it's parts and not just the ones used for crafting. So I tried making a "glow sights" while leaving only raw materials and one junk item that had nuclear material in it. The result was that the item was gone, but the other parts (like aluminum) were lost.
If anyone knows a way to scrap junk items efficiently, please let me know, right now the only way I know to get all the parts is to drop the item and then scrap it from the workshop view. I know that you can scrap weapons in your inventory from the weapons workbench, but I haven't found a way to do it for junk items, and I don't like dropping a bunch of stuff on the ground, with the risk of physics making some stuff fly away.
Okay so I did some more testing, crafted the glow sights with only wonderglue and an alarm clock in my inventory (and only raw materials in the workshop), checked both my inventory and the workshop and neither had the overflow materials, then I went back to the weapons bench and it still listed the 1 extra adhesive from the 2 of the wonderglue that was used, even though it wasn't in any inventory. Then I went back to the workshop and now both the adhesive and extra materials from the alarm clock were listed in the workshop inventory. Hopefully this means nothing ever gets lost, and it's always just a temporary display bug.
On a side note, it seems that some items should not be junked, for instance if you want to craft the molerat wall trophy, you need molerat teeth, but those can be scrapped for bone material. Anyone knows if some other items are better left alone ? I have some vacuum tubes for instance, that sounds like something useful in crafting.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 11, 2015, 05:11:24 pm
who could have known
Post by: miauw62 on November 11, 2015, 05:15:35 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 11, 2015, 05:21:54 pm
Post by: MaximumZero on November 11, 2015, 05:25:29 pm
There's a reason they're called Massholes.Oh, and I've been meanings to ask. I'm not from the US, and I've heard twice (in different places) that people from Boston are more aggressive than other places.
Is this true, and could this be the reason of why most people are aggressive ("I'm not your friend", "Quit wasting my time!") than in other games? That could also explain why the Negative dialog option includes an insult/rudeness most of the time. Or maybe it's just on the beginning.
I have no idea what I'm talking about, though. But I was wondering. :P
My one travel experience to Massachusetts showed me that:
-They're really foul mouthed. God they love to swear.
-They act like New Yorkers when it comes to traffic. I.e. they have zero patience and swear profusely over small annoyances, despite living an driving in a mostly idyllic pastoral countryside.
-They like to fight.
Post by: Aseaheru on November 11, 2015, 05:30:34 pm
-They act like New Yorkers when it comes to traffic. I.e. they have zero patience and swear profusely over small annoyances, despite living an driving in a mostly idyllic pastoral countryside.You kidding? We are about twice as bad. The unspoken speed limit is posted+30 instead of +15, and dont even get me started on the police when it comes to driving. They seem to think that the speed limit for them is posted+50.
Also, there is no such thing as tailgating. Its 'efficient road usage'.
Post by: MaximumZero on November 11, 2015, 05:34:29 pm
Hear hear to that. I was on 81 to Watertown once and my poor little truck literally couldn't keep up with traffic. I was doing over 90mph.-They act like New Yorkers when it comes to traffic. I.e. they have zero patience and swear profusely over small annoyances, despite living an driving in a mostly idyllic pastoral countryside.You kidding? We are about twice as bad. The unspoken speed limit is posted+30 instead of +15, and dont even get me started on the police when it comes to driving. They seem to think that the speed limit for them is posted+50.
Also, there is no such thing as tailgating. Its 'efficient road usage'.
Post by: nenjin on November 11, 2015, 05:40:10 pm
-They act like New Yorkers when it comes to traffic. I.e. they have zero patience and swear profusely over small annoyances, despite living an driving in a mostly idyllic pastoral countryside.You kidding? We are about twice as bad. The unspoken speed limit is posted+30 instead of +15, and dont even get me started on the police when it comes to driving. They seem to think that the speed limit for them is posted+50.
Also, there is no such thing as tailgating. Its 'efficient road usage'.
I can't comment on the speeding. I just remember riding around with a dude from rural Massachusetts and he'd flip out over the smallest thing, the smallest delay. I consider myself a fairly angry driver for the "Polite As Fuck Midwest" but even I was like "Shit dude, are you going to rage at every little thing?" Guy in front doesn't run a red so he's in front of you at the stop light? "You fucking bastard." Guy drifts slightly close to the center line while coming the other direction? "Watch where you're going to you piece of fucking shit." Guy driving the speed limit? "Hurry up you slow fuck." Guy less than a car length off your bumper? "Yea do it motherfucker, I dare you."
And then he'd proceed to cut people off in traffic, pull out in front of them and then lean out his window to swear at them. 0.o
And this was rural Massachusetts. By comparison I felt pretty at home driving into Boston itself, but that's because I like to speed.
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 11, 2015, 07:06:41 pm
Spoiler: Lost Patrol quest spoilers (click to show/hide)
EDIT: Found it! Finally!
Post by: Aseaheru on November 11, 2015, 07:29:53 pm
Although, trying to get an international truck onto a highway is rather hair raising, particularly the older ones.
Post by: motorbitch on November 11, 2015, 08:01:37 pm
still, since i knew of the e key its workable, and the imagination of scraping all the crap again and building all that stuff again keeps my ocd in check so i dont restart because i think i could do a slightly better build.
bottomline is, these dudes reviewing the game bad are morons and proably havnt played it a lot. it has its flaws, but its still TONS of fun.
Post by: umiman on November 11, 2015, 08:20:04 pm
I like this game. I was prepared not to and was fully expecting to stop playing after a few hours like with Fallout 3 but it does a lot of things which I think are great, though obviously it has many flaws as well.
However, I'm not going to talk about the flaws because I think in the grand scheme of things, they don't really matter due to how nitpicky they are.
What I am happy about is that I like that Bethesda had some balls and decided to not just be "Fallout" for the sake of being Fallout. As in, they didn't just try to reskin Skyrim with guns as it were. Nor did they do their stupid little shitty attempt at mimicking the Fallout of yore like they did with Fallout 3... where they basically hoped just getting the correct atmosphere would be enough to please fans of the series while completely screwing over everything else. No, Brotherhood of Steel are suddenly super good guys shit. No SUPERMUTANTS R EVUL. No Enclave for the stupid reason of there must be Enclave and they must be evil.
Instead, here is a game titled Fallout but is very much its own thing. It charts its own path and this path is very fun. They're not trying to be Fallout for the sake of being Fallout any more. They've come up with an interesting and novel premise and they put a lot of love into what can ostensibly be called their own brainchild. You can see all the attention to detail in every location and every place you go to. I'm enjoying exploring this new world they've crafted. I like how they've matured the stories and plots. I especially love how much attention they put into all the companions (they have so much lines of dialogue!). It's like they've learned to unshackle themselves from trying to be what they're not and we've all profited from that.
If you look at my history, you can see I've been critical of this game from Day 1. But I'll happily admit they did a good job here and I'm happy for it. This game is very good. It's not perfect, but it's still marvelous.
Post by: Gabeux on November 11, 2015, 08:22:07 pm
Settelements definitely have some weirdness in them. In my case, Sanctuary stopped receiving new people and stopped at 7 for many hours. I even setup another beacon to see if the effects stack.I don't really understand it either. I did what you did. I made a bunch of radio towers and asked everyone to move to Sanctuary. Now there's 21 people in Sanctuary and 10 everywhere else. I think the game just dice rolls after a certain amount of time to see whether you get a new settler or not. By the way, stacking radio towers don't work. I did it at Sanctuary and it didn't do anything.
I have beds, food and water to support 14+ people, around 35 defence. No one wants to be myslavefriend.
I've setup a supply link to the farm-settlement nearby to see if I can put a beacon there and if people will spawn in it.
I'm 1 level from building shops, it will be really sad if it doesn't work anymore. I'll have to build other settlements, recruit people there, and move them all to Sanctuary.
With the other places, they'd be at 0 or 1 for the longest time. Then I'd do something for a bit then check and it'd be 6 out of nowhere and I have to rush there and build a bunch of stuff.
Hey, I forgot to thank you for the heads up. Was on the phone and couldn't post right so I gave up.
What I think that happens, is that your beacon covers a small area of the map. If you listen to the Recruitment Beacon Radio, it's very short-ranged. So, I'd speculate, having one in Sanctuary is almost useless since there's nothing around there.
So I think it's balanced and understandable if that's how it's supposed to work.
What did make me a little sad, is that there seems to be "Radio Boosters" stations - you hack the terminal and tell it to boost radio signals, so you can hear distant signals. I found that really cool, but I'm not sure if it has an effect on Recruitment Beacons. I'd be really happy if it did, just for "realism" and "You Are Changing The World™" reasons.
I'm also curious if giving water to random Settlers around the map have any effect on you, your settlements, or anything.
I know we're all adults, but I don't believe karma is really gone. There has to be something watching over us all. :'(
EDIT: I also agree with your above post. FO4 gives me a much more authentic feel than FO3 did, and a greater "Wanderer" vibe than both FO3 and NV.
As you said, the flaws are very nitpicky and can be fixed. I'm having so much fun with silly stuff like "Hey, why there's a hole here?" and then a fucking legendary ghoul comes out of it, making me jump from my chair.
I wonder how many "scares" people are getting. I already counted 5. They were really SPECIAL.
PS: I don't think the game TRIES to scare you. But I always play fallout with eyes everywhere except the center of the screen (looking for loot and secrets), so I'm always EXTREMELY distracted.
PS2: Yesterday I said the sentence "WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCKING FUCK THE FUK DOGMEAT GO" as 3 Mirelurks came out of the ground. That fucking borrowing noise, man..
Post by: umiman on November 11, 2015, 08:52:13 pm
-stuff-Ya. the only major flaw I have with the game is the dialogue wheel but it's not really a deal breaker. I mean, they designed the entire game around it so what would the alternative be anyway? And they probably also did it to save on voice acting costs, which I can also understand. Not that there isn't shittonnes of voice acting to begin with.
Post by: Sonlirain on November 11, 2015, 08:52:36 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on November 11, 2015, 09:05:49 pm
I randomly found a guy called Mac running a tiny bar on the lower level of a section of that giant highway in downtown Boston because I heard him talking to himself. I alerted an entire store full of ghouls and got swarmed because I accidentally got too close to one of those goddamn jump-scare monkey dolls with the glowing eyes. I found Han Solo cosplay gear. I fought a giant supermutant wearing a chunk of a swam boat as armor.
IMPORTANT PSA RE: DOGMEAT:
If he goes missing, especially if you sent him to a settlement, there's a doghouse hidden away in a corner of Sanctuary that he goes to, preferring it over any additional ones you build. I only managed to find him when I teleported myself to him.
ANOTHER IMPORTANT PSA RE: QUICKSAVE & LOAD:
If you quicksave and quickload, land mines can disappear. This takes two forms. Bad = A mine you triggered before quickloading is no longer present in the world. Worse = A mine you triggered or did not trigger (not certain of the conditions) before quickloading is still present in the world but is invisible.
So the tl;dr: Don't quickload because Dogmeat nudged you onto a mine you were trying to disarm, either it'll go away anyways or it'll blow you up again.
Unrelated, I found the best companion in the game at Fallout Fight Club. Cage fighter. Irish (I think is what it was intended to be) accent. Smokin' hot by Bethesda standards, with an added streak of drug addict. Main personality traits: violent, assumes you want her around as eye candy. Almost makes me regret taking the solo perk.
I also got super-lucky with a random legendary and got a 10mm pistol which increases crit damage and how much crit you gain per hit.
The more i read about FO4 the more i feel the game is actually more of a spiritual sequel to S.T.A.L.K.E.R. than a Fallout game.That's sort of what I've been thinking to myself, actually. All it's missing is lean keys.
Post by: Sartain on November 11, 2015, 09:21:03 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Dialogue wheel is... interesting. I mostly go for the affirmative/negative responses because otherwise my character will typically say something odd or do a REALLY bad joke.
I'm wondering at the romance-able companions, now that I think of it, which includes some light spoilering for the intro of the game:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Twinwolf on November 11, 2015, 09:31:15 pm
Also:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on November 11, 2015, 09:36:21 pm
The latter half of that also makes sense for the female PC's background.
Maybe it's unintentional and Bethesda happened to get a 'sufficient monkeys with typewriters' stroke of luck, but maybe they did design it like that and people aren't giving them credit (or bothering to think much about it) -- it's certainly already a more nuanced and interesting plot than FO3, at any rate.
Got this game yesterday- for the PS4 because I don't have a computer capable of running anything later than 2005-, been playing a lot today. So PTW.Nope, and nope. The main quest line explicitly reveals how long it's been a while after you get there.
Also:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My prediction for a twist and/or DLC? The shot wasn't instantly lethal and you'll be able to go back to 111 and thaw them, then provide medical treatment.
Post by: Putnam on November 11, 2015, 09:49:07 pm
it's certainly already a more nuanced and interesting plot than FO3, at any rate.
I'm not sure it's possible to make a plot less nuanced and interesting.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 11, 2015, 09:57:18 pm
it's certainly already a more nuanced and interesting plot than FO3, at any rate.
I'm not sure it's possible to make a plot less nuanced and interesting.
Well, yeah, but they could have equaled it.
Incidentally, I'm 95% certain now that there isn't level-based scaling, or at worst a small amount of it which makes it more likely to encounter more dangerous variants of the same enemy type. It looks like it's mostly location-based (I ran into supermutants with laser weapons and a fat man in single-digit levels; I'm still finding bandits all over the place with mostly the same shit-tier pipe weapons and bandit/leather armor), though apparently the chance of an enemy being legendary increases based on your difficulty level.
Post by: Vendayn on November 11, 2015, 10:44:33 pm
but first game on steam where I got a refund :P i put the money into steam wallet, since I had 17 hours of game time (except most of that was afk, I only had 6 achievements), so figured I'd have a better chance with a refund. worked out anyway. and there are other steam games I can get anyway, once christmas sales hit that i want to get.
I'll just say, i liked fallout 3, new vegas, skyrim (except I didn't really like skyrim that much...i liked...) and oblivion way more.
I will say, don't go in expecting it much like an RPG. It felt less like an rpg than even skyrim did to me. way too much like a borderlands experience to me and I hated borderlands, and I don't like fps games that much either (I did love fallout 3 and Nv though). I have a ton of issues with the game that not even skyrim had, but i'm not gonna go into a long rant about it lol. and this is speaking vanilla wise, no mods. Fallout 3, new vegas, sorta skyrim and oblivion were all fine without mods (at least to me), but fallout 4 is not my type of game at all for my reasons.
anyway, glad people find it fun. Doesn't look like its getting good reviews in general, but looks like there are a lot enjoying the game still, but I'm not gonna review the game anywhere, don't feel the need to go around complaining. This will be my only post about it unless people ask questions or something about it. Unlike i sorta did with skyrim, i'm not gonna sit around this thread throwing poop at people that like it...don't want to ruin peoples fun lol. I just wanted to post a useless opinion of the game, so now I'll move on. Not like I lost money lol. I got the money back (well into my steam wallet, but all the same, it probably where it end back up anyway lol).
Post by: motorbitch on November 11, 2015, 10:50:54 pm
damn, drops from uniques are random? only got one thing i have use for, a pipe rifle with unlimeted ammo capacity. of course, damage per shot is rather pathetic, but as i never used .38 ammo before, i have tons of it, and as it only takes gun nut 2 to fully upgrade it, its quite a satisfying ghouls horde shredderer with hillarious rate of fire.
Post by: Astral on November 11, 2015, 11:00:22 pm
Incidentally, I'm 95% certain now that there isn't level-based scaling, or at worst a small amount of it which makes it more likely to encounter more dangerous variants of the same enemy type. It looks like it's mostly location-based (I ran into supermutants with laser weapons and a fat man in single-digit levels; I'm still finding bandits all over the place with mostly the same shit-tier pipe weapons and bandit/leather armor), though apparently the chance of an enemy being legendary increases based on your difficulty level.I think I'm seeing some of the same as well. Perhaps Bethesda learned a bit from all the mods that they've emulated in their game, and leaned more towards Morrowind's style of "If you go this way when you're not ready, good luck" rather than "you're level 50 so the bandits have daedric armor all the time."
So far I'm rather enjoying the game. I feel like it's leaning more towards the combat side of things, with most of the things from previous games streamlined heavily. Not necessarily a bad thing, but if you come into it expecting to get Fallout 3.5, you'll be extremely disappointed. It would be better considered its own game, rather than a sequel.
I do have to laugh at the people who seemed to believe this game was the second coming of Christ in video game form, but such is the nature of hype.
I'm not sure how much mods will be able to fix, but I eagerly await modding tools and the DLC.
Also,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Putnam on November 11, 2015, 11:08:58 pm
they sell it as a "gaming pc" then put a GT 640 into it, like holy shit
Post by: Vendayn on November 11, 2015, 11:21:17 pm
i am legitimately impressed that my brother's shitty alienware pc can play this
they sell it as a "gaming pc" then put a GT 640 into it, like holy shit
my friend's pc can't play skyrim, but can easily play fallout 4
then again he puts 200+ mods and textures that require a 4gb video card, plus intensive enb configs xD
fallout 4 looks amazing though, even not modded. When I was playing, I never once wanted a lighting or texture mod. But I think its because of the art style they used, I think it looks really great.
Post by: Sergarr on November 11, 2015, 11:22:52 pm
i am legitimately impressed that my brother's shitty alienware pc can play thisI have GT 630 and I use my computer for gaming
they sell it as a "gaming pc" then put a GT 640 into it, like holy shit
what's wrong with me doc
Post by: Putnam on November 11, 2015, 11:38:08 pm
a computer with a GT 640 is not made for gaming
you can't play many games at full res on that
note that I'm not saying 60 FPS, I'm saying full res. You'd be hard pressed to get 30 at full res on that.
Post by: Sartain on November 11, 2015, 11:51:27 pm
hum. the main plot seem anything but urgent to me. i have no idea how long i was frozen after they stole the child, for all i know, he could be older then the player char by now.
Imagine your partner killed and your child abducted. Even if the kid was old now, maybe especially if so, wouldn't you want to find him as quickly as possible? I don't think a lot of people go "oh well he's old now so I should just loot yet another ruin :)
Post by: TheBiggerFish on November 11, 2015, 11:52:26 pm
Or dead.hum. the main plot seem anything but urgent to me. i have no idea how long i was frozen after they stole the child, for all i know, he could be older then the player char by now.
Imagine your partner killed and your child abducted. Even if the kid was old now, maybe especially if so, wouldn't you want to find him as quickly as possible? I don't think a lot of people go "oh well he's old now so I should just loot yet another ruin :)
Post by: Leyic on November 12, 2015, 12:15:23 am
fallout 4 looks amazing though, even not modded. When I was playing, I never once wanted a lighting or texture mod. But I think its because of the art style they used, I think it looks really great.Night time is still far too bright, especially in stormy weather. It makes sense for Nirn's ginormous fantasy moons, but is plenty immersion breaking for a more relateable Earth setting.
Imagine your partner killed and your child abducted. Even if the kid was old now, maybe especially if so, wouldn't you want to find him as quickly as possible? I don't think a lot of people go "oh well he's old now so I should just loot yet another ruin :)The abducted child is supposed to be the emotional hook that gets the player involved in the plot, but it falls flat. The intro is over with so quickly there's no time for the player to become emotionally invested in any of the characters, besides which it's difficult to fully empathize with the feelings of a parent without actually being a parent. On top of that, the intro doesn't say anything about how much time the PC thinks has past, so it's up to the player to decide whether the abduction had just happened, or if it's an event from long ago. If the writer wants a player to feel a certain way, they shouldn't give the player much, if any, agency to insert their own opinion into the matter, lest the competing interests of game and story collide.
That said, none of the early game plot makes sense from an emotional perspective. Even if you can put yourself emotionally into the PC's head regarding the kid, everything else you do tries hard to break immersion and remind you that you're playing a game.
Post by: umiman on November 12, 2015, 12:20:16 am
I can't decide who to bring with me. I want to bring along this reporter because it seems like she's going to be amusing, but how can I divorce my waifu Codsworth?! Why can I only bring one person at a time?!
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on November 12, 2015, 12:56:58 am
Why can I only bring one person at a time?!
The follower mods don't exist yet.
You know, considering how often those crop up, you would think Bethesda might make having several followers a part of the game.
Post by: Sirian on November 12, 2015, 01:16:05 am
This game is really bad for my OCD :D
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 12, 2015, 02:28:39 am
Including overly disinterested "mm-hmms", scoffing, "ugh..", "dumb robot" (when talking to Codsworth), and more!
Describing it doesn't do it any justice. It's awesome.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on November 12, 2015, 02:47:16 am
Post by: Gabeux on November 12, 2015, 03:11:20 am
One thing no one further praised, is how the urban part of the map is great. I just got to the beginning of it - Cortega Assmebly Plant (or something like that) and damn. Some great combat was had.
Enemy Outposts are really cool. When they have their own guns, generator and lights deployed.
I think they should've used the Siren as a way to alarm a place of your presence, though. Enemy count is much higher than usual FO3, so it would be cool if the enemy was even more organized. For instance, the spotlight is a really neat addition.
Then again, I've only fought Raiders, Gunners, Boomers and Super Mutants, so maybe there's some more different tactics around.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 12, 2015, 08:01:48 am
One thing no one further praised, is how the urban part of the map is great. I just got to the beginning of it - Cortega Assmebly Plant (or something like that) and damn. Some great combat was had.That's easily 50% of what I've been doing since I started playing. :P
The best part about the new dialog system is that your character says various things when skipping dialog.Oh man, right? It's all these little details that are making it so much more fun.
Including overly disinterested "mm-hmms", scoffing, "ugh..", "dumb robot" (when talking to Codsworth), and more!
Describing it doesn't do it any justice. It's awesome.
Spoiler: Here's the location, there's no marker but it's very obvious. (click to show/hide)
That was also when I discovered PSA INBOUND that power armor doesn't drain energy from cores when you fast travel. As long as you've got map markers already set you can magically warp it into place for battle and leave the same way.
Spoiler: Let a little Emprah into your life, eh? (click to show/hide)
Oh, and yeah. The big-ass Brotherhood surprise has been in town for less than a week. While I was shooting up some supermutants a Vertibird did a flyover and shot me up. Turns out that there were Gunners inside instead of Brotherhood, so I shot it down.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
...and then there are the little things that are actually huge, totally, I swear.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on November 12, 2015, 08:13:32 am
On the note, I now have three separate unused suits of power armour, it's insane.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 12, 2015, 08:24:26 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Yoink on November 12, 2015, 08:34:17 am
Shitballs, hopefully I can forget that before I get a chance to play the game. Serves me right for reading this thread knowing full well it was a bad idea, though. >.>
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 12, 2015, 08:50:30 am
Post by: MasterFancyPants on November 12, 2015, 08:54:13 am
Here's another little thing: the hidden lore details are a lot more grim than it felt like they were in FO3/NV. I've stumbled across five or six really nasty recordings, logs, and tableaus. Not to mention killing Red Tourette while raiding that facility and literally stepping over her cooling corpse to find letters written to her from her kidnapped sister. I spent a good three hours real-time tracking down the location mentioned in them only to find that the rival raider gang apparently accidentally killed her.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: BFEL on November 12, 2015, 09:06:48 am
The worst real bug I encountered was when I first found dogmeat and tried to use the chemistry station. Queue molerat ambush. Exited the station....and realized I was apparently paralyzed turning in circles. Happened a second time when I accidentally a computer another Companion was using.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 12, 2015, 09:10:34 am
Post by: Egan_BW on November 12, 2015, 09:17:46 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 12, 2015, 09:19:33 am
Post by: MasterFancyPants on November 12, 2015, 09:22:48 am
Hopefully we will still have to option to use Nexus.
Post by: NullForceOmega on November 12, 2015, 09:29:40 am
Post by: motorbitch on November 12, 2015, 09:35:41 am
So, what are the worst bugs you guys encountered so far?not a single crash, the only thing ive seen i would consider a glitch is sometimes dudes got randomly hostile when i stole stuff in vault 81, despite i was hidden, noone was near, and the dudes that got hostile often where in an entirely different region of the vault.
not TO serious, but realy annoying as it was hard to tell if someone just went nuts on me.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 12, 2015, 09:40:45 am
-Different/better game/night textures
-Dogmeat retextures
-No power armor power drain
-Different gun/firing sounds
-X person/character the Sole Survivor
-No 'cha-ching' XP gain sound
Every one had at least one other version. Jesus.
Post by: MasterFancyPants on November 12, 2015, 09:44:17 am
Post by: Leyic on November 12, 2015, 10:14:33 am
-X person/character the Sole SurvivorThese really aren't mods; they're save games. And there are surprising few of these compared to what Skyrim had in its first days. Rather, Nexus is being cluttered with ENB and Reshade stuff this time around.
Those as 'hack' type mods though, not stuff made with the GECK.Are you suggesting the theory that the GECK will be designed to let Beth control mod distribution, or are you suggesting something about the legitimacy of "'hack' type mods"?
Post by: Culise on November 12, 2015, 10:16:37 am
So, what are the worst bugs you guys encountered so far?I ran into a little bit of a nasty bug where the Diamond City event in which the security guards gun down one of the two brothers (who was holding a gun on the other brother because [REASONS]) breaks down after they open fire. This locks up most, if not all of the vendors in the area, because they're part of the crowd watching the event. I've had multiple CTDs so far, but I actually assumed that was because my hardware is old enough that the game can't even recognize it.
Post by: MasterFancyPants on November 12, 2015, 10:17:57 am
Are you suggesting the theory that the GECK will be designed to let Beth control mod distribution.That part, Hacky mods are fine.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on November 12, 2015, 10:33:48 am
Yankee doodle starts playing, enter the room from where music comes .Wall is painted with minutemen holding american flag, some ww 2 guys with american flag, american bombers bombing someone, american flag being planted on the moon, and of course soldier in t-51 standing in front of american flag.
Read the inscription : freedom is privelege of those, who dare to take a gun and fight for it.
It was so american, that my tears turned in coca cola.
The worst bug I had encountered was shoulder armour parts of power armour floating one metre above me. This looked really stupid.
Post by: Aseaheru on November 12, 2015, 10:39:34 am
american flag being planted on the moonFrom what I have seen of that plaque there was fighting on the moon. Which sounds awesome and DLC worthy.
Post by: MasterFancyPants on November 12, 2015, 10:41:36 am
Post by: Aseaheru on November 12, 2015, 10:49:31 am
Post by: miauw62 on November 12, 2015, 10:54:06 am
Post by: Leyic on November 12, 2015, 10:54:26 am
Beth would lose sales of the main product and DLC if they were to do that, and there wouldn't be any significant mods in the early days to make up for those losses. That alone is enough for Beth to stay away from centralized content control. Besides which, the previous experiment showed that Beth doesn't have any interest in doing anything that requires effort on their part to watch over modders. Any "publish to Workshop" button that may appear in the GECK is for convenience, not control.Are you suggesting the theory that the GECK will be designed to let Beth control mod distribution.That part, Hacky mods are fine.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on November 12, 2015, 11:13:08 am
Post by: nenjin on November 12, 2015, 11:15:21 am
Pfft, few thousand lost sales don't mean anything. Besides whole modding is very small scale thing, I hear barely 1% of players use mods in first place.
That's the kind of thing you want to source before you state it as a given.
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 12, 2015, 11:19:53 am
Post by: scriver on November 12, 2015, 11:41:33 am
Post by: Putnam on November 12, 2015, 11:42:54 am
remember that this is Bethesda's janky engine, so that's still pretty impressive
Post by: BigD145 on November 12, 2015, 11:46:27 am
Pfft, few thousand lost sales don't mean anything. Besides whole modding is very small scale thing, I hear barely 1% of players use mods in first place.
Nexusmods.com gets around 3/4 million hits a day.
Post by: scriver on November 12, 2015, 11:49:00 am
Post by: Graknorke on November 12, 2015, 11:55:44 am
Post by: scriver on November 12, 2015, 12:03:58 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 12, 2015, 12:04:19 pm
Post by: Graknorke on November 12, 2015, 12:09:43 pm
And actually on that there could be the character flying it but it's not interactive besides telling it where to go. Which I imagine would only sort of count.
Post by: motorbitch on November 12, 2015, 12:24:34 pm
i gave it some thought what it could mean and what to do with it. i then decided to feed it to the people.
yeah, i know what you think now. but im not evil! for one, this is the bloody post apocalypse, and we have to make due with whatever resources we have.
also: science.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on November 12, 2015, 12:26:52 pm
Post by: Aseaheru on November 12, 2015, 12:33:36 pm
By the way, why would vault-tec perform all those vault experiments, if they would not live to know their results.
Theres a "Vault 0" in an earlier game that is said to be for watching vaults, theres also a whole bunch of secret and/or private vaults.
Plus, the enclave probably can monitor some of them.
Post by: miauw62 on November 12, 2015, 12:37:32 pm
Fallout: BoS had a "secret vault" which housed vault-tec personnel, and even though that game isn't canon it's a pretty obvious thing to do.
E:
also
Quote from: fallout wikia
His iconic pose with a thumbs up is actually a way to know if you must evacuate a zone after a nuclear attack. One should put his hand up and if the mushroom cloud is bigger than your finger, then one is on the radiation hazard zone and should evacuate as soon as possible.i never knew
Post by: XhAPPYSLApX on November 12, 2015, 01:27:35 pm
This AND the Witcher 3 are my games of the year, both for completely different reasons :D
Post by: Shadowlord on November 12, 2015, 01:36:42 pm
Before anyone asks, yes, it was buggy, but IIRC it was the first FPS with working vehicles. (Duke Nukem 3D and Quake 1 came out the same year)
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 12, 2015, 01:46:16 pm
By the way, why would vault-tec perform all those vault experiments, if they would not live to know their results.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 12, 2015, 02:16:15 pm
Or, for that matter, whatever Vault 101's issue was.
Post by: Kot on November 12, 2015, 02:17:24 pm
I wonder how Super Mutants are a sociology problem.Well, let's say you're going away from Earth on huge spaceship and suddenly shit goes wrong and you have Super Mutants. Social Experiments prepared them for this.
Or, for that matter, whatever Vault 101's issue was.
Post by: miauw62 on November 12, 2015, 02:18:33 pm
I wonder how Super Mutants are a sociology problem.well, to see how people would behave under the enclave's rule aboard the space ship? something tells me they wouldn't be friendly overseers that listen to their inhabitants and organize things by resident committees :v
Or, for that matter, whatever Vault 101's issue was.
Post by: scriver on November 12, 2015, 02:29:12 pm
I wonder how Super Mutants are a sociology problem.
Or, for that matter, whatever Vault 101's issue was.
Super Mutants is less a sociology experiment and more a "hey I wonder if we'll evolve into super humans if we apply this forced evolution virus to people" biology experiment.
101 was, if I remember correctly, one of the actual functional vaults, for keeping humanity alive. Might have been some sort of "forced locked doors" clause now that I think about it, but I don't see how "you can't open the vault for 300 years" is ant different from other vaults.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 12, 2015, 02:49:45 pm
It studied the affects of what would happen if it remained sealed indefinitely - though this research would have been a bust, because through the reign of multiple overseers the vault was opened for explorers to survey the surrounding area.
Post by: Gabeux on November 12, 2015, 03:19:58 pm
What is the ultimate, most scary demonic monster of Fallout 4?
- Legendary Deathclaw
- Legendary Bloodbug
- Legendary Stingwing.
I challenge any of you to record a video on Very Hard, killing a Legendary Stingwing or Bloodbug without healing items.
The only problem is that I can't reward you. :P
But seriously, Stingwings are insane. If you find some on an area that is higher level than you, I urge you to nuke, bottlecap-mine, or dump nades on them.
(To be honest, killing Bloodbugs and Stingwings is not that hard with explosives. But if they get close, you are dead in a few seconds.)
On another note, I was having coffee watching TV today. Some show about home decoration was on. I seriously thought "So much clutter.."..
It has only been 3 days, and I'm already having urges to scrap people's houses.
Post by: BigD145 on November 12, 2015, 03:22:18 pm
Post by: sprinkled chariot on November 12, 2015, 03:30:42 pm
Wait, you can watch tv in vidyagaems now?
Post by: Twinwolf on November 12, 2015, 03:34:00 pm
So, what are the worst bugs you guys encountered so far? I just had my first CTD for unknown reason, but 15+ hours in and with a autosave system that fires roughly every five steps its merely inconvenient.One of the mole-thingies knocked me into a corner in the place where you find Dogmeat, where I was trapped by furniture, and this was before I unlocked the workshop there.
But then fast travel, and it was all better.
Post by: miauw62 on November 12, 2015, 03:47:46 pm
A nearby crate even had a power cell, so it was obviously ment to be used. Pretty annoying, it looked pretty badass too.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 12, 2015, 03:48:20 pm
Ah, I see. Actual flight over stuff though, not just fast travel? Cam you set the destination? Is it a single or narrative-bound flight or can you use it at your own leisure?Now, I've not played the game, but I do remember this in the trailer, yes. Including a "Jump" button, which makes my power armor turn on, if you catch my drift.
Post by: BFEL on November 12, 2015, 04:00:26 pm
Still can't fly anything? Come on, Bethesda, you had working vehicles in 1996 in SKYNET.You can fly power armour :P
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 12, 2015, 04:01:52 pm
Post by: Sergius on November 12, 2015, 04:24:32 pm
Post by: Niveras on November 12, 2015, 04:30:23 pm
Post by: miauw62 on November 12, 2015, 04:33:38 pm
Post by: Niveras on November 12, 2015, 04:55:58 pm
Pics?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also - as I was playing in windowed mode, and have a habit of using alt-printscreen to grab a shot of the active window only - I promptly threw a molotov, which destroyed the hatch. So... Bug solved!
Post by: miauw62 on November 12, 2015, 05:01:27 pm
Random hatches labeled "Detonate"; what could go wrong?
Post by: Kot on November 12, 2015, 05:06:41 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 12, 2015, 05:09:38 pm
Meanwhile, I finished building all the Tier 2 store types, finally.
And in this night, people decided to derp around it.
(Don't mind the graphics. Old graphics card magically running the game - and if anyone knows how to fix the pixelation on the actors' edges, lemme know.)
Spoiler: Just a market pic (click to show/hide)
EDIT: Oh, if you want to make sure an NPC is easy to find, equip him with a Mining Helmet (or cap?), it has a bright light on it, effectively turning your settler into a beacon.
Post by: Graknorke on November 12, 2015, 05:12:52 pm
Post by: anexiledone on November 12, 2015, 05:16:48 pm
I have a 6950, it's a problem with the godrays setting. There is a console command to shut them off, I think it's gr 0 but I can't remember.
Post by: Gabeux on November 12, 2015, 05:24:35 pm
Is that how the game looks when you play it, or are there some image artefacts going on?
Nope, it really looks horrible. But I think something's wrong. I mean, I could play Skyrim and Fallout 3 with all the graphical mods and it would look better, and wouldn't lag.
Do you have a Radeon 6xxx series?
I have a 6950, it's a problem with the godrays setting. There is a console command to shut them off, I think it's gr 0 but I can't remember.
Yep, mine's a 6850. Turning godrays off on the launcher already made it work better (and everything is looking much less terrible), I'll see if I can find that command.
EDIT: It really is gr 0. Thanks :D
Post by: Astral on November 12, 2015, 06:05:44 pm
May be something I look into adding when they release the construction kit. Along with the Darude Sandstorm sound replacer for the laser gatling gun, and the baby deathclaw chestburster ammo for the syringer.
Post by: miauw62 on November 12, 2015, 06:08:52 pm
Post by: motorbitch on November 12, 2015, 06:33:40 pm
i also know of more power armor frames, and anyway, as i can steal them, there are proably MANY power armor frames.
now my question is: is there any reason to have more then one power armor frame? i dont think i can give it to npc (and anyway, i dont take companions and if i would i would only need two...)
Post by: Dostoevsky on November 12, 2015, 06:37:21 pm
So, what are the worst bugs you guys encountered so far? I just had my first CTD for unknown reason, but 15+ hours in and with a autosave system that fires roughly every five steps its merely inconvenient.
During my first sitting with the game, after just meeting Dog Meat, I tried to cancel out of a conversation with the dog. This froze up the entire computer and put the mutt's panting on an endless loop until I forcibly shut down the computer. Kind of amusing, in a way, and haven't encountered it again.
Post by: Jacob/Lee on November 12, 2015, 06:45:00 pm
Gunners, ironically, are less trouble for me to kill than raiders. At least gunners have frags that give you a chance to run. I'd take that town full of gunners over a town full of raiders.
Also: gun sounds are pitiful in this one. They sound like toys.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 12, 2015, 06:52:54 pm
I still haven't had a chance to launch, but from what I've seen, most of my fears were right on. Guess I'll have to mod the hell out of this.
First mod: Replacing all instances of "Fallout" and "Nuka-Cola" with something unique. This'll fix 90% of my issues with the game, I can go back to wishing for a proper sequel.
Second mod: Alternate start, so I can create my own characters
Third: Mute the protagonist and fix the dialogue system
Fourth: Change that ugly fat font all over the UI. I really thought that was placeholder art, months ago, yet here we are.
Glad people are enjoying it, I'm sure I'll enjoy the base building part.
Post by: motorbitch on November 12, 2015, 06:56:53 pm
also, im sure youll enjoy everything, exept proably the base building part.
exept of course you want a game thats like fallout 1 and two, then wastelands 2 will be a much better choice for you.
Post by: Sartain on November 12, 2015, 07:08:50 pm
so, since someone spoilerd me how to steal power armors i now have 4 power armor frames (two of with wont even say steal but enter when i highlight them \o/)
i also know of more power armor frames, and anyway, as i can steal them, there are proably MANY power armor frames.
now my question is: is there any reason to have more then one power armor frame? i dont think i can give it to npc (and anyway, i dont take companions and if i would i would only need two...)
Pretty sure you can tell NPCs to interact with them through the dialogue interface, and put them on like that. Or maybe just putting it in their inventory and having them equip it as you would regular armor.
Post by: nenjin on November 12, 2015, 07:12:57 pm
exept of course you want a game thats like fallout 1 and two, then wastelands 2 will be a much better choice for you.
I dunno, Wasteland 2 may look like classic Fallout games but I don't think they're at the same level. There's a thin veneer of cool shit in Wasteland 2 that doesn't extend to the whole game.
Post by: motorbitch on November 12, 2015, 07:19:40 pm
hm, but you cant pick up the frames. they will stay where you leave them and you can only enter them, or put in modules.so, since someone spoilerd me how to steal power armors i now have 4 power armor frames (two of with wont even say steal but enter when i highlight them \o/)
i also know of more power armor frames, and anyway, as i can steal them, there are proably MANY power armor frames.
now my question is: is there any reason to have more then one power armor frame? i dont think i can give it to npc (and anyway, i dont take companions and if i would i would only need two...)
Pretty sure you can tell NPCs to interact with them through the dialogue interface, and put them on like that. Or maybe just putting it in their inventory and having them equip it as you would regular armor.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 12, 2015, 07:29:22 pm
While customization is awesome, the ammount of weapons in game is pretty lazy. Same with nonpower armour. :(How far are you into the game? I'd guesstimate that there's approximate parity with the number of guns in NV or FO3, but yeah, early on you're just going to encounter a bajillion pipe guns and a few short-and-useless hunting rifles and double barreled shotguns. The customization also means that every 'base' gun has at least two, usually four to six effective guns inside it.
Here's a list of all of the 'base' weapons I've encountered thus far (I'm at level 25):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Keep in mind, those are just the base weapons which I have physically encountered and remember. Each of them has at least 2-4 builds (in terms of base stats and damage effects, &c.) meshed with 1-3 naming conventions/classes.
One thing I'm surprised they did not add, with all the crafting currently in there, is an equivalent to New Vegas' loading bench. The ability to break down ammo and reform it as other types would be a godsend, as ammo is otherwise expensive to buy in large amounts.
Yeah, I'm surprised they left that out as well. That said, there's always the old standby of carrying four guns or so. Usually by the time you start running low for one, the others all have a few hundred/thousand rounds stockpiled. .308, .45. and .38 are all very, very common, so one each of those is usually a good idea.
Also: gun sounds are pitiful in this one. They sound like toys.Same question as the first one: how far are you in? At 6h it's probably not much--most of what you're encountering is still almost exclusively shit-tier pipe guns firing .38 pistol rounds, with a few weak short-barreled hunting "rifles". Right now I've got a fully kitted set with a .308 sniper, .45 DMR, combat shotgun, and 10mm pistol. The shotgun's the only one that doesn't sound quite as meaty as I'd like it.
Also, if we're talking about sounding like toys, the new sounds for laser weapons make up for a lot of sins.
Post by: scriver on November 12, 2015, 07:34:43 pm
Post by: jocan2003 on November 12, 2015, 07:40:01 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 12, 2015, 07:47:31 pm
The shotgun's the only one that doesn't sound quite as meaty as I'd like it.
Also, if we're talking about sounding like toys, the new sounds for laser weapons make up for a lot of sins.
Yes and yes. My laser shotgun and sniper are really cool, especially since I stopped using them for a while (favoring legendary hunting rifle and a combat shotgun) and now I got hundreds of cells to use.
As my praise for the game goes on, I also really like the way reading magazines, comics and books works now - granting you perks, or higher perk rank when you find more.
It makes exploring even more rewarding, even if the bonuses aren't that big. But as you play more, that "picking locks is now permanently easier" really saves you some time, and makes gameplay much more dynamic. It feels like your character is learning and getting better as he goes - which is awesome, given that he wasn't born in the wasteland.
It might look and feel very silly for those who REALLY wanted a Fallout 3 2015 edition, though.
PS: Initially, I thought this WAS Fallout 3 2015. Doesn't take long until you notice it's not. But I like it anyways. :P
Post by: Astral on November 12, 2015, 07:52:20 pm
One thing I'm surprised they did not add, with all the crafting currently in there, is an equivalent to New Vegas' loading bench. The ability to break down ammo and reform it as other types would be a godsend, as ammo is otherwise expensive to buy in large amounts.
Yeah, I'm surprised they left that out as well. That said, there's always the old standby of carrying four guns or so. Usually by the time you start running low for one, the others all have a few hundred/thousand rounds stockpiled. .308, .45. and .38 are all very, very common, so one each of those is usually a good idea.
Yeah, even with a low strength character I have 5 different guns that I regularly carry, being level 20 and with a Gun Nut of 2 and Science of 2, and keeping in mind that I dislike automatic weaponry (as less damage for more boolet seems wasteful):
Fully modded 10mm semi auto pistol with suppressor (from the one you get to start!)
Partially modded bolt action Sniper Rifle (using .308 ammo, may mod it to a .50 cal when I get the chance)
Partially modded semi auto Combat Rifle (using .45 ammo)
Plot Point Guy's Revolver, which can't be modded much (using .44 ammo)
Partially modded Laser Sniper Rifle (using fusion cells, as a sort of last resort weapon)
It's not very ideal, as I would need to split between two different perks to get full benefit of damage/other nice things for all of my weapons, but I tend to rely on the suppressed 10mm for most situations. I even used a legendary pipe pistol for a while, if only to use some of the thousands of .32 rounds I had amassed by that point. I might look into getting an armor piercing weapon, but the drastically lowered damage doesn't seem worth it.
Having a grenade hotkey and a sprint hotkey are also great boons. I rarely used grenades in 3 or New Vegas, because it was annoying to have to switch to a completely different weapon, then switch back. But with combat feeling a lot more fluid, it's good to have a room clearing molotov or frag grenade on hand from time to time.
Post by: Jacob/Lee on November 12, 2015, 07:58:59 pm
17h as it stands. I haven't played with the laser weapons much, but the ballistics all seem too quiet to me. I've played with sawn-offs, .45 SMGs, .308 rifles, and others, and my current primary weapon is a four-crank laser musket.Also: gun sounds are pitiful in this one. They sound like toys.Same question as the first one: how far are you in? At 6h it's probably not much--most of what you're encountering is still almost exclusively shit-tier pipe guns firing .38 pistol rounds, with a few weak short-barreled hunting "rifles". Right now I've got a fully kitted set with a .308 sniper, .45 DMR, combat shotgun, and 10mm pistol. The shotgun's the only one that doesn't sound quite as meaty as I'd like it.
Also, if we're talking about sounding like toys, the new sounds for laser weapons make up for a lot of sins.
I'm convinced that this is caused by playing too much Red Orchestra 2 before playing F4. I'm used to pulling the trigger drowning out literally every other sound in the game, so my expectation is somewhat skewed. :P
Post by: motorbitch on November 12, 2015, 08:21:27 pm
anyway, about ammo: if a ressource is to plenty, there is no reason to have it in game in the first place. i think its always hard to hit the sweet spot because sparese enough to make the player think and so sparse that it doesnt make sense to use the guns.
i think fo4 is hitting that spot quite well, though i think ammo could be even rarer. its the post apocalypse after all, and since the factories broke down 200 years ago, and it appears as if ammo was used a lot since.
edit: gna, wrote something all sarcastic about realistic laser sounds cause im to stupid to read other posters posts right. deleted it.
Post by: Mono124 on November 12, 2015, 08:40:29 pm
So, what are the worst bugs you guys encountered so far?Put the fusion cell in the power armor, got in it, ran to grab the minigun, and as soon as I grabbed it I shot up into the air super high with incredible velocity flying 3/4 of the way to diamond city before falling into about 6 bandits. I killed them all and felt like a badass ODST trooper even though this is fallout and I was so far from where I was supposed to be it wasn't even funny.
Post by: Astral on November 12, 2015, 08:52:43 pm
i think fo4 is hitting that spot quite well, though i think ammo could be even rarer. its the post apocalypse after all, and since the factories broke down 200 years ago, and it appears as if ammo was used a lot since.
Yet in sufficiently stable areas (see: New Vegas) the art of making ammo is available. There are notes regarding factories able to pump out ammunition, and even brand new guns (like the Gun Runners), and a part of a fairly minor sidequest has you stealing schematics for some of this information from them. So it's not too far off the mark that the character could figure out how to use this rediscovered technology themselves once sufficiently skilled. I mean, you can turn a laser pistol into a laser rifle with a full stock and everything, as well as create syringe-based ammunition that implants bloatfly larvae into the target, so basic bullets shouldn't be too hard.
In 4, after upgrading one of my settlement's weapon traders to the best one, they had 200+ of various types of ammunition, so scarcity doesn't appear to be an issue, just price. I just wish they would've taken a bit more after New Vegas' improvements with regards to crafting. I like the modification system, but being able to create a brand new base gun with sufficient skill and resources should also be an option, rather than simply scavenging whatever you can off dead people.
To that end, a reloading bench mod I make may include a new, general crafting bench for weapons as well. You would have to buy schematics for relatively high prices, but it would guarantee your ability to get a certain type of weapon. I didn't know a Combat Rifle existed until recently, as I had only seen a single Assault Rifle up to that point, and I rarely used it due to the scarcity of 5.56 ammo, even when specifically searching for it.
Post by: motorbitch on November 12, 2015, 09:05:42 pm
i agree that it was fitting to make ammo if you can make stuff like high tech modifications for a power armor, yet i dont think it would increase game fun to convert or even build ammo.
im not very far into the game anyway, lvl 17, not even made it to diamond city (though i could go there, but they keep me to buisy with so many side quests)
i have found a few combat rifles however. they use .45 ammo, and require gun nut2 (lvl259
Post by: umiman on November 12, 2015, 09:14:57 pm
Post by: motorbitch on November 12, 2015, 09:18:19 pm
i fought the structure building interface for HOURS to build a fuckin fence around sanctuary. natural obstacles even hinted so much that the devs intended me to do that. the only entry to sanctuary is the bridge, guarded by 4 heavy machine gun towers, 2 spotlights, and a few construction site lamps.
HOWEVER: i just had my first attack, and the raiders just spawned in the middle of my village.thats so dumb and, i dont even.
also only two of them. thats so pathetic, they could just not attack at all. my sttlers had beaten them up with fists alone. plus, both spawned on excacltly the same spot. i just put two towers there now and proably be done with that part of the game.
very sad. this whole build and defend part is quite half assed. the good news is however, there is absolutely no reason to torture oneself fighting the buidling interface any mroe then it takes to place some matraces , turrets and crops on the mud.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 12, 2015, 09:20:17 pm
The Pitt in FO3 also allowed recasting ammo, seemed like it was a reward for "completing" the DLC. (I haven't played it, but my brother did)
You didn't die, huh? Kinda want a mod for that, eventually.So, what are the worst bugs you guys encountered so far?Put the fusion cell in the power armor, got in it, ran to grab the minigun, and as soon as I grabbed it I shot up into the air super high with incredible velocity flying 3/4 of the way to diamond city before falling into about 6 bandits. I killed them all and felt like a badass ODST trooper even though this is fallout and I was so far from where I was supposed to be it wasn't even funny.
Post by: Astral on November 12, 2015, 09:22:33 pm
I'm a bit irked that you have no ability to see how you place things before finalizing it, or no "overview" mode that allows you to view/place/remove things from a bird's eye view encompassing the whole settlement. But it is baby steps in the right direction.
Post by: umiman on November 12, 2015, 10:31:53 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 12, 2015, 10:38:01 pm
(mission accepted)
Post by: Aseaheru on November 12, 2015, 11:12:37 pm
Put the fusion cell in the power armor, got in it, ran to grab the minigun, and as soon as I grabbed it I shot up into the air super high with incredible velocity flying 3/4 of the way to diamond city before falling into about 6 bandits. I killed them all and felt like a badass ODST trooper even though this is fallout and I was so far from where I was supposed to be it wasn't even funny.You didn't die, huh? Kinda want a mod for that, eventually.
No fall damage while in powerarmor, isint it?
Post by: JimboM12 on November 12, 2015, 11:54:49 pm
tl;dr: i love the construction in this game. Takes some getting used to, but after being a DF player for years gave me a bit more patience for it.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 13, 2015, 12:03:59 am
So I guess 1-int stupid runs aren't *entirely* discarded, my character just needs to drink constantly.
(mission accepted)
I've also recently encountered a legendary weapon effect that increases damage based on how many different types of drug withdrawals you're experiencing. And there's another perk that increases your Luck while drunk if you travel with a companion. So yeah, idiot boozehound junkie barbarian is a viable build.
Oh, if that's the standard you're judging it by, then yeah. :P17h as it stands. I haven't played with the laser weapons much, but the ballistics all seem too quiet to me. I've played with sawn-offs, .45 SMGs, .308 rifles, and others, and my current primary weapon is a four-crank laser musket.Also: gun sounds are pitiful in this one. They sound like toys.Same question as the first one: how far are you in? At 6h it's probably not much--most of what you're encountering is still almost exclusively shit-tier pipe guns firing .38 pistol rounds, with a few weak short-barreled hunting "rifles". Right now I've got a fully kitted set with a .308 sniper, .45 DMR, combat shotgun, and 10mm pistol. The shotgun's the only one that doesn't sound quite as meaty as I'd like it.
Also, if we're talking about sounding like toys, the new sounds for laser weapons make up for a lot of sins.
I'm convinced that this is caused by playing too much Red Orchestra 2 before playing F4. I'm used to pulling the trigger drowning out literally every other sound in the game, so my expectation is somewhat skewed. :P
Post by: Rolan7 on November 13, 2015, 12:05:55 am
(I want today to be three days from now so I can actually play!)
Post by: Sartain on November 13, 2015, 12:39:55 am
hm, but you cant pick up the frames. they will stay where you leave them and you can only enter them, or put in modules.so, since someone spoilerd me how to steal power armors i now have 4 power armor frames (two of with wont even say steal but enter when i highlight them \o/)
i also know of more power armor frames, and anyway, as i can steal them, there are proably MANY power armor frames.
now my question is: is there any reason to have more then one power armor frame? i dont think i can give it to npc (and anyway, i dont take companions and if i would i would only need two...)
Pretty sure you can tell NPCs to interact with them through the dialogue interface, and put them on like that. Or maybe just putting it in their inventory and having them equip it as you would regular armor.
Well I haven't actually tried as I have yet to acquire a second frame but I would guess that setting up a frame on a power armor station would let you direct an NPC to wear it.
Post by: jocan2003 on November 13, 2015, 01:05:51 am
Damn adhesive being so rare.....
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on November 13, 2015, 01:10:04 am
Post by: Flying Dice on November 13, 2015, 01:19:06 am
Know that legendary weapon effect that causes AoE explosions on impact? Got a combat rifle with it, absolutely deadly. Also the explosions make huge mushroom clouds of water when you shoot them at it.
Post by: Dansmithers on November 13, 2015, 01:25:56 am
Well, let's say you're going away from Earth on huge spaceship and suddenly shit goes wrong and you have Super Mutants. Social Experiments prepared them for this.Sigged
Post by: Flying Dice on November 13, 2015, 01:40:40 am
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on November 13, 2015, 02:24:09 am
Naaaah, who am I kidding, there's gotta be a dirty secret around here, let's see what I can find out about it.
Post by: scriver on November 13, 2015, 02:40:00 am
+ It runs surprisingly well for a computer below the minimum requirements so far. I'm not sure why they put the specs so high, but hopefully I won't find out by my laptop sparking on fire or anything. Maybe the once there's a bunch of NPCs around it will start to show more.
- The game is pretty clunky. I can't judge the flow of the game itself as my computer is probably below minimum requirements, of course, but the pip boy menus are already a bit annoying.
- Fucking dialogue wheel, man. Couldn't they at least gone through the trouble of binding it to the keys you actually have your fingers on?
+ It's a bit early to say yet, but so far I've noticed that there seem to be a lot less random crap items lying around. By which I mean there's not a hundred tin cans and abraxo cartons in every single ruined house. I guess now that you can profess what items are made of you can make individual items more sparse? I'm carefully optimistic. Still, maybe nukacola bottles are just the new tin cans. Coffee cups do still seem to be everywhere too :v
- I didn't get military fatigues in my destroyed house :'(
Post by: Putnam on November 13, 2015, 02:42:59 am
Huh, I found vault 81, seems interesting, certainly more stable than every other vault I've seen, wonder if this is the control group of all those experiments vault-tec performed.
Naaaah, who am I kidding, there's gotta be a dirty secret around here, let's see what I can find out about it.
there are 17 control vaults
Vault 3 in New Vegas and Vault 8 in Fallout 2 are the only two to definitely be control vaults that appear in-game; Vault 3 was massacred by the Fiends and Vault 8 ended up becoming Vault City due to the GECK. Vault 17 mentioned in New Vegas may have been a control vault; all that's known about it is that it was taken over by the Master's army (I guess Lily's from there). Vault 76 mentioned in 3 is also a control vault.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 13, 2015, 04:48:48 am
- Fucking dialogue wheel, man. Couldn't they at least gone through the trouble of binding it to the keys you actually have your fingers on?
+ It's a bit early to say yet, but so far I've noticed that there seem to be a lot less random crap items lying around. By which I mean there's not a hundred tin cans and abraxo cartons in every single ruined house. I guess now that you can profess what items are made of you can make individual items more sparse? I'm carefully optimistic. Still, maybe nukacola bottles are just the new tin cans. Coffee cups do still seem to be everywhere too :v
1. I think it's Shift + WASD as the secondary keys for the arrow keys?
2. Oh, there's cans all over the fucking place; three kinds, too: 'can', 'tin can', and 'aluminum can'. Of course, you're going to be grabbing all of that random stuff that was once useless clutter, because now it's valuable and often scarce crafting materials to make your guns and armor shinier and better. If I had to identify a new successor to the can, it's either be (as you said) empty bottles, or possibly wrenches--both are fucking everywhere, heavier than most miscellaneous items, and yield only extremely common materials.
Post by: Virtz on November 13, 2015, 04:51:23 am
Actually for the dialogue wheel it's: 1 - UP, 2 - LEFT, 3 - RIGHT, 4 - DOWN. Shift + WASD works only for the construction interface.- Fucking dialogue wheel, man. Couldn't they at least gone through the trouble of binding it to the keys you actually have your fingers on?1. I think it's Shift + WASD as the secondary keys for the arrow keys?
Post by: scriver on November 13, 2015, 06:34:23 am
2. Oh, there's cans all over the fucking place; three kinds, too: 'can', 'tin can', and 'aluminum can'. Of course, you're going to be grabbing all of that random stuff that was once useless clutter, because now it's valuable and often scarce crafting materials to make your guns and armor shinier and better. If I had to identify a new successor to the can, it's either be (as you said) empty bottles, or possibly wrenches--both are fucking everywhere, heavier than most miscellaneous items, and yield only extremely common materials.
Heh, yeah. I remember in that space ghoul facility in NV how when you walked through the utility tunnels how there were tin cans and misc shit absolutely everywhere. Really made one wonder who the hell had been tracking all that shit down there.
Post by: BFEL on November 13, 2015, 06:57:19 am
and making it so that there isn't one "best" armor that you feel obliged to use.So far the best armor I found was a metal chestpiece. It has WEIRD perk requirements to upgrade though. It has like 6 different levels, and the last 4 ALL require max armorer perk. Very odd.
Also, mods I want to see:
1. ALL CLOTHES BEING GODDAMN LAYERABLE.
2. No level requirement for perks. You should be able to fucking specialize in shit without hitting level 50
3. Base gun/armor construction.
Those are the ones that pop out at me off the top of my head. I'll probably think of more later.
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 13, 2015, 07:07:24 am
Walking into Diamond City in third person while walking with no radio on is just amazing. They really perfected the atmosphere. Feels like an actual town!
Fallout 4 has one of the best ambiences I've heard, too.
Quote
1. ALL CLOTHES BEING GODDAMN LAYERABLE.Welcome to Cliptown. Population: You.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 13, 2015, 07:55:26 am
On the bright side, they have cloth physics in vanilla, as evidenced by the distinctive outfit of THE SILVER SHROUD.
Post by: Guardian G.I. on November 13, 2015, 09:25:12 am
Spent the first in-game day rummaging through Sanctuary Hills, found plenty of loot and bugs (mutant and technical - Dogmeat was stuck in a mid-leap animation when I first met him). Overall impressions are quite positive.
Gotta complete the game with the default character, then maybe I'll start a specialized playthrough.
Edit: Classical Radio is a surprisingly good thing to play in the background while fighting enemies or looting stuff.
Post by: silverskull39 on November 13, 2015, 09:28:10 am
2. No level requirement for perks. You should be able to fucking specialize in shit without hitting level 50
I think this one's already up on the nexus, though I haven't tried it. There's a bunch of hacked together mods already, mostly cheats, tweaks, fixes, or character saves.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 13, 2015, 09:38:22 am
Post by: Flying Dice on November 13, 2015, 09:43:23 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Actual, game/lore related BoS spoiler: (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on November 13, 2015, 10:25:48 am
This alone makes this the best Beth game since Morrowind for me. Possibly game of the year even.
Post by: motorbitch on November 13, 2015, 11:11:33 am
Post by: BigD145 on November 13, 2015, 11:47:13 am
Post by: miauw62 on November 13, 2015, 11:59:48 am
Post by: Wiles on November 13, 2015, 12:05:12 pm
Post by: Dostoevsky on November 13, 2015, 12:08:18 pm
is it just me or is codsworth really op in earlygame?
His saw does seem quite powerful in the early game, but the flamethrower on the other hand is only really good for the light show.
He's also pretty easy to please, and his loyalty perk is decent (and looks like you keep it even if he's not your current companion).
Post by: sprinkled chariot on November 13, 2015, 01:07:34 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 13, 2015, 01:09:00 pm
Then again, I have no idea what happiness does. I read somewhere that there's a help menu in the game that tells you about it, so I'll see if that's true.
And did anyone notice any real difference in assigning people to Scavanging Stations? Since I constantly dump all of the clutter of the wasteland on my worktables, I have no idea.
Also, about ayy lmaos:
Spoiler: Ayyy (click to show/hide)
EDIT: Oh, and another small praise for details. I'm not sure how many there are, but if you don't piss off caravan traders..they might visit you.
Which means you have more stores to nag copper and caps from. :P
Post by: Teneb on November 13, 2015, 01:10:50 pm
I also love the super mutant taunts. "You humans made us! Now suffer for your arrogance!"
Post by: umiman on November 13, 2015, 01:24:30 pm
The settlement bugs are really sad. When you go too far from some settlements, their water production level goes to 0. If you take too long to come back / don't notice it, happiness might go from 80 to 40 just due to that.There are so many bugs with settlements it's absurd.
Then again, I have no idea what happiness does. I read somewhere that there's a help menu in the game that tells you about it, so I'll see if that's true.
Happiness will go down for no reason. The bug with beds and settlers not knowing how to assign themselves to them properly. Water disappearing. Power disappearing. Even settler numbers changing.
Also, I'm pretty certain it was intended for food and water to be shared across linked settlements due to what the help dialogues say as well as how settlements that are linked without enough food or water don't go in the red. However, your settlers don't seem to give a shit about that.
Post by: Gabeux on November 13, 2015, 01:36:00 pm
I didn't run into the bed assignment bug though. And I *think* if your settler numbers change by 1, it *might* be Providers. I don't understand how/when/why, but sometimes Sanctuary Hills go from 16 to 17 people, and one of the links get a settler or lose one. If you have no provider and that still happens, then that's weird.
I still don't know how to reproduce the water bug (haven't got the power one because I'm not yet building a lot of power generators, just enough for a Beacon and a few things), but going back to the settlement keeps it right for a good while. They really need to look into that though, because happiness takes long to get back up.
As a heads up:
- Happiness give bonuses to production of scavanging stations and idle settlers (which scavange by default).
- I wasn't understanding why people would hang around near my "market" at night. Turns out they hang out by the bar (Food and Drink Store).
- Profit from stores feel really crappy to me. I'm still changing from Tier 2 to Tier 3 though.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 13, 2015, 01:37:00 pm
Wasteland Defense did the raids better years ago. Half the time when you get a raid notice it's physically impossible to get there in time. The building parts have stupidly large hitboxes and don't phase into the ground, so any uneven terrain means everything looks stupid. You can only build in the predetermined locations, which are almost universally boring. I just want to build a hideous monstrosity on the rooftops in Boston, but that's too much to ask, apparently.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on November 13, 2015, 01:43:21 pm
On settlement topic, there needs to be some sort of mod introducing G.E.C.K, so you can build not junk, but shiny future buildings.
Also I pretty like bethesda humour
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gabeux on November 13, 2015, 02:01:37 pm
You can hold E on Construction Mode to move a building (the ones you built, of course) and everything that's attached to it.
[Hold for a second and release, instead of moving the targeted object, you'll move everything at once.]
I just moved a part of my hand-made bar because it was "crooked".
You can also hold E and use the mousewheel to move objects vertically.
This doesn't make it any less worse when it comes to building walls and fences, but wow this just made building a house by hand doable.
Post by: BFEL on November 13, 2015, 02:02:03 pm
We FINALLY get to go over 10 in SPECIAL stuff. This has needed to happen for SOOOOO long.
No longer does power armor do nothing for you because you happen to already be really strong, and thank fuck for that.
Post by: Wiles on November 13, 2015, 02:12:23 pm
Post by: jocan2003 on November 13, 2015, 03:27:50 pm
Post by: Niveras on November 13, 2015, 03:36:14 pm
On the other hand, so far (early on), kills don't reward very much and working on settlements rewards quite a bit.
Post by: Aseaheru on November 13, 2015, 04:38:47 pm
Coldsworth cant actually die, he spouts british jokes some of which I cant understand, he gives you free medicine, he distracts enemies, and he is overall pretty cheerful thing to travel with.
But does he count for the lone wander perk.
In other news, it looks like the "minimum system requirements" are really more of a suggestion than a requirement. If you dont mind occasional its of chugging you can play with an AMD Athlon 2 X3 455 processor and AMD Radeon HD 6670 graphics. Which is useful, since I dont have the $300 needed to upgrade that shit and microsnot may have a snit and require a new system key if I do.
Post by: Gabeux on November 13, 2015, 05:06:52 pm
I haven't joined the Brotherhood of Steel yet, but when you help them it already unlocks their flag. I believe you need to join the Minuteman in order to unlock theirs.
There's also a magazine (Picket Fence) that unlocks more furniture to be built.
And I first noticed some resource generation now. I had less than 5 steel, then after ~8 hours (I think it's a daily tick), I had 35.
For the amount of settlers and scavangers I have, it's pretty slow. But it's good to know something is actually getting gathered.
Oh, and I got a Legendary Sniper Rifle that deals ~15 energy damage (in addition to ballistic damage) and has a chance to turn enemies into green goo when they die.
I'm curious as to why a .50 cal rifle like that deals shitty damage in comparison to my other weapons, even though it clearly points to have higher damage..but maybe I'm exploring higher level areas.
Post by: miauw62 on November 13, 2015, 05:08:37 pm
Some constructions do sink into the terrain. That being... floors. ;_; you need a flat piece of land to plant fucking melons.
I hope the mods will be able to solve that.
Construction is still pretty fun, though. I enjoyed building a double gate in front of the bridge, with guard posts raised above the fences. I hope it actually does something.
E:
What do they gather? Screws, gears, ADHESIVE?
Post by: Gabeux on November 13, 2015, 05:13:00 pm
E:
What do they gather? Screws, gears, ADHESIVE?
Good question. The game just states they gather things "Necessary for construction."
I have a good amount of screws, gears and other stuff..but I don't know if my OCD did that, or if they actually gathered it.
Some !!science!! might be needed.
And don't forget you can make adhesive on the Cooking Station with Corn, Mutfruit and some other vegetable - it's pretty helpful!
EDIT: You probably know that, but I'll post as a PSA:
A good practice is to press T on the building screen, when you're lacking materials. It'll mark with a magnifying glass the junk items that can be scrapped into that material.
Once/if you get traders for your town, always talk to the general goods trader and buy anything that has copper and crystals in it.
Even though I go OCD and do this constantly, I still run out of those.
Post by: Astral on November 13, 2015, 05:19:39 pm
I didn't notice it previously (potentially because I didn't use it much) but now I see that resources you mark as needed are highlighted with that green wireframe once you get close enough, even for containers. It helps a little bit, as I can extend my travel times slightly instead of picking up everything, I pick up what I really need.
Post by: Gabeux on November 13, 2015, 05:27:10 pm
Sorry for incessant posting, but whoever said Codsworth is cool and is easy to gain favor.. You guys were kidding, right?
That things hate me. I can't even kill a cat or steal a key and he says the most british judgemental sentences he can find in his database.
[Funny thing is, I've got almost to level 25 and just now I took him as a companion. So it's pretty spot-on, RP-wise, when he says "You're not the same man as before" to my character].
Oh, and I don't kill cats. I just wanted to see if they were the Skyrim Chickens of Fallout. They are.
Post by: umiman on November 13, 2015, 05:29:00 pm
Post by: Kot on November 13, 2015, 05:31:32 pm
WHY I HAVEN'T BOUGHT THIS YET!?!
Post by: Rolan7 on November 13, 2015, 05:35:38 pm
Okay fine I'll give this a try :P
I was going to anyway, I was just expressing sour grapes because I haven't had a chance yet.
Post by: Putnam on November 13, 2015, 05:43:35 pm
Post by: miauw62 on November 13, 2015, 05:46:03 pm
Then again, I haven't been playing for very long.
BTW, is the second rank of the scrapper perk worthwhile? And can I scrap stuff while not at a workshop?
Post by: Gabeux on November 13, 2015, 05:52:04 pm
I also found kind of a minor easter egg. One of the many unmarked locations. For everyone, I'll just say on the north-western quadrant (near starting area).
If you don't mind:
Spoiler: Cat Lady (click to show/hide)
I just love Codsworth and his British dapperness. It adds something to the game that I haven't found in any other companion, even in other Beth games.
Then again, I haven't been playing for very long.
Ah don't get me wrong, I love him too. I have more emotional attachment to him and Dogmeat than any other character.
Given that I'm just exploring and building, one might say I don't give a damn about anything else than my dog and my robot.
It's just that, in Beth games, my standard procedure in a new area is to steal all the keys and investigate everyone's background. That way I know who are the psychos that are going to get their heads exploded beforehand.
Post by: BFEL on November 13, 2015, 05:57:16 pm
I said that a metal chestpiece was the best armor I found, and I now need to clarify that this is apparently a Heavy Metal chestpiece. the regular version is crap. Note this isn't a modification, but a different base.
The one I have is level 2 of 6, with no misc mod and it has 39 damage resist and 27 or so energy resist. Its BASE STATS dwarf the fully upgraded stats of things like combat armor and synth armor.
And the weaponbot in Goodneighbor has a legendary version for sale :P (though it is for something like 20000 caps, so that's gonna be a MUCH later purchase.)
Post by: Gabeux on November 13, 2015, 06:09:58 pm
I said that a metal chestpiece was the best armor I found, and I now need to clarify that this is apparently a Heavy Metal chestpiece. the regular version is crap. Note this isn't a modification, but a different base.
GIMME.
I have been having bad luck with armor since the beginning. Or maybe I've been lazy.
I did get a legendary left leg that grants 10% movement speed bonus, but it doesn't have near that defence rating.
I forgot to mention before, when talking about little details..did anyone notice the "Eyes" of the Mr Handies?
If you see one doing something, like tending to crops, try talking to him. It seems his front eye will keep focused on doing the work, and the other two will look at you.
I find that really fucking cool and rather cute. I'm not sure if it's intended either, but it's nice.
Spoiler: Example (don't forget I have a 4 year-old graphics card): (click to show/hide)
Post by: Teneb on November 13, 2015, 06:10:59 pm
Wait, what? I could've sworn it was mentioned in an earlier game that they were extinct.Yeah, there are a lot. I've found a shack in the wilderness (unmarked location) with a trader and over five cats (and paintings of cats too).
Got ninja'd
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on November 13, 2015, 06:25:29 pm
Post by: Kot on November 13, 2015, 07:01:55 pm
Post by: Geltor on November 13, 2015, 07:09:17 pm
Post by: Kot on November 13, 2015, 07:14:20 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 13, 2015, 07:21:25 pm
i feel scammed by the amount of weapons and armor in the game, it was not what i had in mind. wasnt it mentioned at one point that every weapon could have hundreds of modifications? the armor layering isnt that much exciting either when your options are ragged out long johns or some such other crudNo, there are hundreds of total modifications available. That's what was said.
Post by: Jay on November 13, 2015, 07:40:03 pm
i feel scammed by the amount of weapons and armor in the game, it was not what i had in mind. wasnt it mentioned at one point that every weapon could have hundreds of modifications? the armor layering isnt that much exciting either when your options are ragged out long johns or some such other crudI'm sure the pitch was "hundreds of combinations", which is true.
That said, there is a disappointing lack of variety.
I can't wait for new-GECK, as modders will fix it as always.
Post by: Vendayn on November 13, 2015, 07:50:32 pm
But my friend said it feels like a prequel than a sequel, due to how much stuff feels not nearly as modern as in fallout 3 and especially fallout new vegas. He thinks fallout 4 is actually further back in time than new vegas.
but it makes far more sense the way my friend put it, that fallout 4 is a prequel and takes place further back than fallout 3 and nv do. Thats why there isn't as advanced guns, armor and technology. and even building up settlements its all kinda primitive stuff compared to fallout 3 and vegas.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 13, 2015, 07:54:03 pm
And the settlements look different because one person with practically zero construction experience is making them, by hand.
Post by: Teneb on November 13, 2015, 07:56:39 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
-snip-It's certainly after both games, since a character that was a kid in FO3 (you can actually meet him there) is an adult in this game.
Post by: Jay on November 13, 2015, 07:59:16 pm
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 13, 2015, 08:01:29 pm
So far Fallout 4 seems to be somewhere between the two. Not quite as much as New Vegas, but definitely better than Fallout 3.
Post by: Teneb on November 13, 2015, 08:02:09 pm
Pretty much. If you were to list the non-uniques, you'd end up with basically what various mods do in 4.i feel scammed by the amount of weapons and armor in the game, it was not what i had in mind. wasnt it mentioned at one point that every weapon could have hundreds of modifications? the armor layering isnt that much exciting either when your options are ragged out long johns or some such other crudTo be fair, there's fewer weapons because instead of different kinds of a base weapon, such as laser pistol, laser rifle, scatter laser etc. they're all one weapon, just with various modifications to give the desired effects.
Also, the cryolator (I think I spelled it right?) is so much fun. You can see during your very first hours in the game, but I spoilered it anyway.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Vendayn on November 13, 2015, 08:05:31 pm
Pretty much. If you were to list the non-uniques, you'd end up with basically what various mods do in 4.i feel scammed by the amount of weapons and armor in the game, it was not what i had in mind. wasnt it mentioned at one point that every weapon could have hundreds of modifications? the armor layering isnt that much exciting either when your options are ragged out long johns or some such other crudTo be fair, there's fewer weapons because instead of different kinds of a base weapon, such as laser pistol, laser rifle, scatter laser etc. they're all one weapon, just with various modifications to give the desired effects.
Also, the cryolator (I think I spelled it right?) is so much fun. You can see during your very first hours in the game, but I spoilered it anyway.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You can get the cryolator really easily, very early on (don't open the spoiler if you don't want to see the bug/cheat/glitch that will probably be fixed)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on November 13, 2015, 08:07:33 pm
I suspect the cats are a population that started with a vault, hence the lack of mutations and *cough* physical similarities they all share.
I also really like how they redid almost all of the weapons to make them fit the alt-reality tone a bit better instead of being clones of real-world weapons with the names filed off.
Post by: Putnam on November 13, 2015, 08:34:50 pm
He thinks fallout 4 is actually further back in time than new vegas.
Even farther back? New Vegas is the second farthest forward game in the series after 4, taking place in 2281 (40 years after Fallout 2 and 120 years after Fallout)
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 13, 2015, 08:44:32 pm
Post by: Yoink on November 13, 2015, 08:47:27 pm
...Okay, I mainly just want to know if the voice actors do "HURR DURR ME SMASH NOW"-type lines for if your INT score is 1. Otherwise I will probably create a female character when I get the game, just so I don't have to listen to the same voice actor saying the same things again.
Luckily enough the character I created on my friend's PC fitted the voice pretty well.
The character I'm planning on making when I play the game for real, not so much.
Post by: Stuebi on November 13, 2015, 08:48:33 pm
One thing that bugs me to no end is the whole building aspect tough.
First of all, it's just not possible to build a half decent looking Fence / Entrance in most locations. The collision is such a massive Diva in terms of distance, so you allways have little or big gaps. You also cant tilt any of the stuff you place, so you have a lot of floating stuff that's just bad on the eyes. You cant properly clean up a lot of locations either. Most grievous of all:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm also kinda dissapointed in the Settlements in general. I see no practical reason in building up more than one location and making that one your homebase.
What I need, is either a no collision mod in Building Mode, or just straight up overhauls of the locations themselves. The vanilla one just doesnt work properly they way I want it to.
Post by: Virtz on November 13, 2015, 09:00:05 pm
Spoiler: Cat Lady (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on November 13, 2015, 09:23:35 pm
Post by: BFEL on November 13, 2015, 09:24:38 pm
So, is there any different dialogue depending on your SPECIAL attributes and what-not?I think someone in thread confirmed there are alternate voices for being drunk at least. And I know firsthand that taking Psycho makes you go RAWRG in a hilarious over the top way.
...Okay, I mainly just want to know if the voice actors do "HURR DURR ME SMASH NOW"-type lines for if your INT score is 1. Otherwise I will probably create a female character when I get the game, just so I don't have to listen to the same voice actor saying the same things again.
Luckily enough the character I created on my friend's PC fitted the voice pretty well.
The character I'm planning on making when I play the game for real, not so much.
Anyone else use the Ghoulish perk? Was the first one I grabbed and...I haven't noticed it actually doing anything tbh. The third rank of Life Giver on the other hand is AMAZING. I was walking around with 60 some stimpacks without noticing it :P
Oh, had a pretty crazy moment awhile back. Saw a raider in power armour and saved. Then got hit with a mini-nuke. Then got hit with a mini-nuke again. And again. I was so scared because I had saved after they launched it. And I was over encumbered.
On the third reload I managed to open the pip boy and pop some jet and med-x, plus some healing items to boot. That let me escape a direct blast with a sliver of health so I could get behind a building and regen.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 13, 2015, 09:29:25 pm
Gotta say, though, Life Giver + Solar Powered is pretty OP. Just walk around on the surface and anything that doesn't kill you outright will go away after a while. Of course, even on Hard/Very Hard you still find so many goddamn chems that you never need to worry anyways; I'm at ~level 30 and I've got about two hundred stims and one hundred Radaway in my inventory, and every encounter/area usually increases that by a net of ~2-4 combined. Once I get to the point where I get honest prices, those stims are buying all my expensive shit.
Post by: Yoink on November 13, 2015, 09:49:50 pm
Oh, had a pretty crazy moment awhile back.Those fuckers are terrifying.
It's awesome. I love all the little raider settlements you stumble across. I
I'm increasingly tempted to borrow $20 off my mother and just buy the game myself, rather than waiting for my friends to split the cost with me.
Then I wouldn't have to feel bad for hogging the game, either.
Post by: Putnam on November 13, 2015, 09:51:56 pm
Post by: Yoink on November 13, 2015, 10:03:46 pm
They don't make a whole lot of sense, though- on the one hand there would be plenty of violent folks taking advantage of a lawless wasteland and killing people for no reason, but on the other hand they all inexplicably look and act the same. I suppose it's more a matter of not wanting to invest the time into making hundreds of unique little raider gangs when the player character is just gonna stomp the shit out of them on sight anyway.
Post by: BFEL on November 13, 2015, 10:14:45 pm
Post by: umiman on November 13, 2015, 11:06:45 pm
I sent Piper to the gas station once and now I can't figure out how to get her back home to her sister.
Post by: Gabeux on November 13, 2015, 11:15:37 pm
The raiders are the stupidest goddamn part of the game. Generic horseshit humans who have no backstory and no reason to exist who attack you even in situations where that makes zero goddamn sense. New Vegas's closest approximation is the Jackal gang, and they have backstory, coming out of Vault 15 along with the more successful NCR and Great Khans and appearing in Fallout 1. Raiders in Fallout 3/4 are just idiotic.
Even though all the raiders are named Raiders, there's at least, usually, a named leader. And some of those bands "work together" (in a background story way, not a game-mechanic way) or know each other.
I don't pay attention enough to those things, but when you find terminal with personal logs on raider camps, usually they tell of named people, so there's something more than just..nothing.
It's not great, but at least it's something. :P
Does anyone know how to send companions back to their old locations?
I sent Piper to the gas station once and now I can't figure out how to get her back home to her sister.
Just tell them to move, and on the location selection screen, press Tab. It's very counter-intuitive, since it says that it will cancel the action..but it actually sends the follower back to their original place.
I have to do this on Codsworth since Sanctuary Hills is full. The game don't let me send him there, which is even more counter-intuitive and probably shouldn't work that way.
About items and encumbrance: I really think they should give us a different flare gun that calls in a hauler or something. Just so you can dump stuff to be delivered to your homebase on the run.
That way I don't have to go back to a settlement every time I strip a building of clutter. :P
About Settlement Attacks: So, finally the day has come in which I got attack on Sanctuary. Here are some details on the AI:
- People climbed into Power Armor by themselves. My shitty one, that was sitting beside my main one. Go figure.
- People rang the Siren closest to them. I have 2 Sirens, and that actually helped me to locate where they were invading from. It also made every NPC go into combat mode. I'll probably put one or two more since Sanctuary is huge.
- They invaded from 2 fronts. I have two gates (bridge/vault), so they came after my Vault Gate, and from a small-fenced area which I let poorly defended on purpose, exactly to see if they would try to flank there. Turns out they did.
- Beth should make it so settlers reload ammo on their own. No use handing them superbly modded laser guns if they're simply gonna keep using a pipe gun. ::)
EDIT: Actually, both of my power armors were taken. And both helmets were "stolen" by the settlers who took them. Guess it's time to move them to Red Rocket ¬¬
Post by: Flying Dice on November 13, 2015, 11:29:02 pm
The raiders are the stupidest goddamn part of the game. Generic horseshit humans who have no backstory and no reason to exist who attack you even in situations where that makes zero goddamn sense. New Vegas's closest approximation is the Jackal gang, and they have backstory, coming out of Vault 15 along with the more successful NCR and Great Khans and appearing in Fallout 1. Raiders in Fallout 3/4 are just idiotic.The worst part about it is that in 4, if you look and listen carefully, a lot of the raider groups have specific motivations, are humanized, &c. ... but none of that is translated into mechanics, they all still behave as mindless killbots without even the common sense to run away from the dude in power armor that just pulped most of their friends.
Post by: umiman on November 13, 2015, 11:49:40 pm
Doesn't work like that. It just sends her to the gas station if you tab it.Does anyone know how to send companions back to their old locations?
I sent Piper to the gas station once and now I can't figure out how to get her back home to her sister.
Just tell them to move, and on the location selection screen, press Tab. It's very counter-intuitive, since it says that it will cancel the action..but it actually sends the follower back to their original place.
I have to do this on Codsworth since Sanctuary Hills is full. The game don't let me send him there, which is even more counter-intuitive and probably shouldn't work that way.
Post by: Wiles on November 14, 2015, 12:58:01 am
Actually, both of my power armors were taken. And both helmets were "stolen" by the settlers who took them. Guess it's time to move them to Red Rocket ¬¬
I had no idea they'd use your power armour! I have all my suits just sitting around in Sanctuary. Can they use them if they don't have fusion cores in them?
Post by: BigD145 on November 14, 2015, 01:17:37 am
Actually, both of my power armors were taken. And both helmets were "stolen" by the settlers who took them. Guess it's time to move them to Red Rocket ¬¬
I had no idea they'd use your power armour! I have all my suits just sitting around in Sanctuary. Can they use them if they don't have fusion cores in them?
You can still walk the suit around without a core.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 14, 2015, 01:17:59 am
Post by: Aseaheru on November 14, 2015, 01:19:40 am
Post by: Neonivek on November 14, 2015, 01:39:51 am
Though I kind of wonder if in reality it is larger then New Vegas if you took out all the empty land.
Post by: Ultimuh on November 14, 2015, 01:46:35 am
Goodness this map manages to seem smaller then both New Vegas and Fallout 3...
Though I kind of wonder if in reality it is larger then New Vegas if you took out all the empty land.
Yeah NV had too much empty space in my opinion.
And Skyrim also seem to have bits of emptiness, but the landscape variety kind of balanced it.
NV just had areas of empty desert.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 14, 2015, 01:59:28 am
Post by: PTTG?? on November 14, 2015, 02:01:08 am
To be fair it was, well, a desert. :P
Yeah, Ultimuh, have you ever driven to Los Vegas?
Post by: motorbitch on November 14, 2015, 02:35:38 am
first testings indicate this ability is somehow connected to the creatures ability to borrow, maybe they somehow utilize sismic waves with are produced by the stealthed targets heartbeat.
if this project should be sucessful, i hope to integrate it into the powerarmors sensor to give the wearer full information about any moving object on the planet.
serious: fuckin rad scorpions. even when standing still with some annoying stealth armor thingy that turned me invisible, stealth indication went from hidden to danger in a flash. ran quite far away and hid again, as soon as the danger indictator relaxed to caution, it flipped right back to danger. fucked around with it a bit from shier curiosity, it seemed to work over kilometers range, and its unaffected by los.
annoying. well, bashing the damn fucker to death with a power fist worked fine.
Post by: BFEL on November 14, 2015, 03:40:03 am
Anyone with 10 perception get the perception bobblehead (which you can't miss)?
Wanna know if nabbing them with 10 of an attribute puts you permanently over.
Post by: Sirian on November 14, 2015, 03:47:15 am
Actually, both of my power armors were taken. And both helmets were "stolen" by the settlers who took them. Guess it's time to move them to Red Rocket ¬¬
I had no idea they'd use your power armour! I have all my suits just sitting around in Sanctuary. Can they use them if they don't have fusion cores in them?
You can still walk the suit around without a core.
You can, but I heard that settlers won't use it if there's no core. Actually, I even heard that if you pickpocket the core from someone in power armor, they will exit the armor.
Or, if you really don't want to take chances, you could wall in the armor and remove the wall in construction mode to access it.
Post by: Sirian on November 14, 2015, 03:52:15 am
Oh, question about bobbleheads.
Anyone with 10 perception get the perception bobblehead (which you can't miss)?
Wanna know if nabbing them with 10 of an attribute puts you permanently over.
I can't remember where I read this but yea you can go over the limit.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on November 14, 2015, 06:08:19 am
Post by: AoshimaMichio on November 14, 2015, 06:16:23 am
Post by: miauw62 on November 14, 2015, 06:25:39 am
Post by: Neonivek on November 14, 2015, 07:12:10 am
Post by: Stuebi on November 14, 2015, 07:21:13 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm probably either gonna build up the Red Rocket, or that one big Parking Lot with lot's of space. At least until the Mods fix those stupid locations. It's also teeth grinding how you can not build Crafting Stations until you leveld up that weird Leader perk twice. Especially since it's so damn far low on the list.
Post by: scriver on November 14, 2015, 07:54:57 am
Post by: Girlinhat on November 14, 2015, 07:57:55 am
Allright, I've given up.someone in reddit built it up using unusual building things.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm probably either gonna build up the Red Rocket, or that one big Parking Lot with lot's of space. At least until the Mods fix those stupid locations. It's also teeth grinding how you can not build Crafting Stations until you leveld up that weird Leader perk twice. Especially since it's so damn far low on the list.
Post by: miauw62 on November 14, 2015, 08:39:32 am
How do I assign people to stuff anyway? I don't know if I missed the explanation but regardless I can't figure it out on my own, and it seems you're not able to get the defense counter up without assigning poeople.Press E on somebody in workshop mode, then press E on what you want to assign them to. Really confusing, it doesn't say this anywhere and took me a while to figure out.
Post by: motorbitch on November 14, 2015, 08:41:43 am
instead, just litter the area with heavy machine gun turrets. they dont need a lot or rare mats to build, and its way less frustrating to fight this broken building ui.
Post by: scriver on November 14, 2015, 08:43:49 am
How do I assign people to stuff anyway? I don't know if I missed the explanation but regardless I can't figure it out on my own, and it seems you're not able to get the defense counter up without assigning poeople.Press E on somebody in workshop mode, then press E on what you want to assign them to. Really confusing, it doesn't say this anywhere and took me a while to figure out.
Ah, nice. Thanks. I tried Eing people but didn't try Eing the place I wanted them ;)
Post by: sprinkled chariot on November 14, 2015, 09:01:57 am
Also raiders just spawned near my power armour suits, got inside and kicked asses of everyone. Why would not military protect their gear with fucking password, really.
Post by: Mistercheif on November 14, 2015, 09:35:12 am
I think for a lot of it they used the foundation pieces.Allright, I've given up.someone in reddit built it up using unusual building things.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm probably either gonna build up the Red Rocket, or that one big Parking Lot with lot's of space. At least until the Mods fix those stupid locations. It's also teeth grinding how you can not build Crafting Stations until you leveld up that weird Leader perk twice. Especially since it's so damn far low on the list.
Post by: Niveras on November 14, 2015, 11:32:13 am
Not 100% sure how that will work in terms of defense, though. Would invaders spawn "in" the structure or below it, on the actual ground?
Post by: nate9090 on November 14, 2015, 11:58:58 am
Allright, I've given up.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm probably either gonna build up the Red Rocket, or that one big Parking Lot with lot's of space. At least until the Mods fix those stupid locations. It's also teeth grinding how you can not build Crafting Stations until you leveld up that weird Leader perk twice. Especially since it's so damn far low on the list.
It isn't as hard as you think! Try using the concrete foundation under wood floors. I was able to plug the holes up with that.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on November 14, 2015, 12:14:59 pm
i started a research program to reproduce the rad scorpions ability to detect hidden opponents over virtually unlimeted range even while they use stealth technology.
first testings indicate this ability is somehow connected to the creatures ability to borrow, maybe they somehow utilize sismic waves with are produced by the stealthed targets heartbeat.
if this project should be sucessful, i hope to integrate it into the powerarmors sensor to give the wearer full information about any moving object on the planet.
serious: fuckin rad scorpions. even when standing still with some annoying stealth armor thingy that turned me invisible, stealth indication went from hidden to danger in a flash. ran quite far away and hid again, as soon as the danger indictator relaxed to caution, it flipped right back to danger. fucked around with it a bit from shier curiosity, it seemed to work over kilometers range, and its unaffected by los.
annoying. well, bashing the damn fucker to death with a power fist worked fine.
Huh. I literally walked into one without it noticing me yesterday while I was sneaking around a super mutant camp. I only realized it was there when I went to [caution], turned around, and was like, "Wait, that's a radscorpion three feet away from me." Only have 1 point in the sneak perk and ~3 of the sneak magazines.
Post by: motorbitch on November 14, 2015, 12:32:59 pm
Post by: Yoink on November 14, 2015, 12:46:01 pm
Level 17 and I finally worked out how to scroll down on the perks screen. I'd wondered why the selection of perks was so small. ::)
In my defence, having to right-click and drag is a bit odd, at least in my experience.
Oh well I'm buying my own copy of the game tomorrow and starting over anyway, so it's no big deal.
On that note, after another unhealthy day of binge-gaming I need to get some sleep so I can wake up and go buy the game tomorrow.
I'm expected to do cool social stuff tomorrow, but fuck that. Priorities.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 14, 2015, 01:07:26 pm
Interface has a lot of annoying quirks. Game's pretty fun though. Got a couple hours in last night and, yeah, the combat does feel good. And the perk system had me happily browsing it for quite a while.
Tonight I can really get into it <:
Post by: Gabeux on November 14, 2015, 01:10:54 pm
Also raiders just spawned near my power armour suits, got inside and kicked asses of everyone. Why would not military protect their gear with fucking password, really.
Wow. That sounds FUN.
I'd build a Power Armor Garage if my size limit on sanctuary wasn't almost full..I'll try it later, anyways.
I found a full suite of T-60b. That thing is definitely not going to hang around my settlers.
I still haven't had any problems with enemies spawning too close / inside a settlement. I find it weird how settlers don't die, though.
I think Beth was too nice to noobs and newbies in this regard. This is Fallout. People die - and it's your fault. Bwhaha!
Then again, I'm already wasting hours of game time fixing settlements all over, so they being alive saves me time from disposing of innocent people's bodies.
They're not entirely essential, though. I killed some with a grenade, accidentaly. :P
I'm expected to do cool social stuff tomorrow, but fuck that. Priorities.
PRIORITIES.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 14, 2015, 01:18:46 pm
Kinda weird that my fresh character had no reaction that the first person she met lacked a nose.
(Not to mention that her first action was demolishing her hometown and raising a tower)
Post by: Gabeux on November 14, 2015, 01:24:57 pm
Just like it's weird that I only got to Diamond City on level 25 after exploring a lot, and "building" 5+ settlements.
Mine forgot about his story.
Post by: scriver on November 14, 2015, 02:09:00 pm
It's annoying.
Post by: Niveras on November 14, 2015, 02:12:47 pm
Apparently it is a thing, which explains my own problems. Found lots of suggested fixes but none of them work; I'm not sure if it's because of multiple factors causing the same problem, or if the people posting them think they work just because they got lucky and went a few hours without crashing, but didn't report back to their own post to say that the fix didn't work after all. Read at least one post saying that he seemed to run fine with a 770 versus the 680, though that doesn't help me with a 660 TI.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 14, 2015, 02:15:53 pm
Post by: Graknorke on November 14, 2015, 02:18:52 pm
Makes me kind of doubtful that this is specifically and exclusively an Nvidia problem.
Post by: Astral on November 14, 2015, 02:26:09 pm
How many people are playing on PC with an nvidia card and not crashing randomly? ("Display driver stopped responding and recovered") Happens pretty randomly - could be five minutes into loading in, could be hours in.
Apparently it is a thing, which explains my own problems. Found lots of suggested fixes but none of them work; I'm not sure if it's because of multiple factors causing the same problem, or if the people posting them think they work just because they got lucky and went a few hours without crashing, but didn't report back to their own post to say that the fix didn't work after all. Read at least one post saying that he seemed to run fine with a 770 versus the 680, though that doesn't help me with a 660 TI.
I had this error with my GTX 970 on various games over the course of the last year. The issue was that the card itself was failing, unfortunately; it almost seemed as if it ran out of memory, or the card itself crashed, as I only experienced it on certain high requirement games (Sins of a Solar Empire was good at this in particular, in the late game with a few hundred ships fighting at the same time). Thankfully I was able to get it RMA'd by EVGA, and I haven't had the issue since.
Post by: Niveras on November 14, 2015, 02:44:04 pm
Isn't FO4 meant to be Gameworks :oIt does seem to be happening with AMD cards, but people are more frequently reporting it with nvidia cards.
Makes me kind of doubtful that this is specifically and exclusively an Nvidia problem.
Quote
I had this error with my GTX 970 on various games over the course of the last year. The issue was that the card itself was failing, unfortunately; it almost seemed as if it ran out of memory, or the card itself crashed, as I only experienced it on certain high requirement games (Sins of a Solar Empire was good at this in particular, in the late game with a few hundred ships fighting at the same time). Thankfully I was able to get it RMA'd by EVGA, and I haven't had the issue since.
Yes, the problem with the TDR errors is that there are many ways that it could happen but without expensive diagnostic systems you can't troubleshoot them all. Could be bad drivers, bad motherboard, bad ram, bad video card hardware, bad PSU, overheating, faulty power connections, a dozen other things. The error itself tells you nothing and even the windows event viewer is completely unspecific.
I have had this crash before in another game, but it was months ago and I don't even remember what it was. Maybe Sacred 2 Gold? Which isn't even all that graphically intense. Whatever it was, it was very rare at the time, and extremely frequent in FO4, and is not repeated by other graphic intense games like Planetside 2. So my estimation is that it is something about FO4 specifically in how it interfaces with my overall computer setup and probably focused on the nvidia card, rather than bad hardware or an issue with performance settings (that is, my card isn't faulty, or overheating, or being taxed beyond its ability). Might be something Nvidia has to fix, might be something Bethesda has to fix, might be something the user himself might have to fix.
Just trying to get a broader cross section of people who may also be having the problem.
Edit: Actually, I think the last time I saw this was with Shadows of Mordor.
Post by: jocan2003 on November 14, 2015, 02:55:45 pm
Post by: motorbitch on November 14, 2015, 03:09:51 pm
i think bad drivers may also cause this.
its not the games fault tho. if it was, the game would stop working, not your graphic card.
you cant try to update your drivers, check if your case is building up heat and if your psu can handle the load.
now, im fairly sure youll answer your psu is great, your case is ice cold and your card is is awsome, and that i should fuck my self with a toothbrush.
but still... its not the fault of the game ;)
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 14, 2015, 03:40:29 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on November 14, 2015, 03:48:05 pm
maybe its the difficulty setting? i havnt tested it (yet) but i have a hunch that stealth is way less stealty and dudes grow eyes on the back of their heads with harder settings.Unlikely, that was well after I bumped it up to Very Hard. Unless you're playing on Survival.
How many people are playing on PC with an nvidia card and not crashing randomly? ("Display driver stopped responding and recovered") Happens pretty randomly - could be five minutes into loading in, could be hours in.No issues here with my GTX970.
Apparently it is a thing, which explains my own problems. Found lots of suggested fixes but none of them work; I'm not sure if it's because of multiple factors causing the same problem, or if the people posting them think they work just because they got lucky and went a few hours without crashing, but didn't report back to their own post to say that the fix didn't work after all. Read at least one post saying that he seemed to run fine with a 770 versus the 680, though that doesn't help me with a 660 TI.
Post by: Gabeux on November 14, 2015, 03:50:47 pm
As I'm headed for a quest, I see a bright light. I got investigate. An hour later, I'm overencumbered, with 2 new holotapes and maybe a magazine. Kill Loot Return.
I see an explosion. I go check it. I murder a whole Super Mutant encampment. Kill Loot Return.
I hear a noise. I take a peek at the window. I murder a horde of Ferals. Kill Loot Return.
I see movement. I leave a trail of corpses. Kill Loot Return.
Meanwhile no quests were finished that day.
EDIT: By the way, I've started finding logs of people who left their bunkers (or whatever place they survived the bombs) only 1-3 months after it happened.
How could these people even survive? Wasn't there a nuclear winter that could kill you in weeks/months?
Post by: Twinwolf on November 14, 2015, 04:11:18 pm
I got an achievement recently: "Touchdown". The description for it is just "Score a touchdown" which left me really confused becauseSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 14, 2015, 04:21:42 pm
I got an achievement recently: "Touchdown". The description for it is just "Score a touchdown" which left me really confused becauseSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: miauw62 on November 14, 2015, 04:52:17 pm
Post by: scriver on November 14, 2015, 05:18:07 pm
EDIT: By the way, I've started finding logs of people who left their bunkers (or whatever place they survived the bombs) only 1-3 months after it happened.
How could these people even survive? Wasn't there a nuclear winter that could kill you in weeks/months?
The story of what happened after the bombs fell has always been a little... inconsistent. In both the old fallouts and the new.
Post by: Leyic on November 14, 2015, 05:20:42 pm
I got an achievement recently: "Touchdown". The description for it is just "Score a touchdown" which left me really confused becauseSpoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gabeux on November 14, 2015, 06:03:32 pm
I think most people weren't able to appreciate kill loot return when I made it thread title the first time, me included.
Not to its completion, no. I liked it because that's pretty much the process on Beth games, found it really fitting..however, when you wrote it, did you know that:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: sprinkled chariot on November 14, 2015, 06:14:59 pm
Post by: BFEL on November 14, 2015, 06:23:03 pm
Which one are you guys planning to support?
After testing the waters a bit with each of them I'm pretty firmly going Railroad.
Minutemen are pretty much neutral and don't really seem to have any stake in the plot aside from just "being there"...maybe they're intended as this games "wild card" ending?
Maxson is a fascist maniac, so while the BOS at large is MOSTLY ok...ish, I can't see myself actually siding with them in any serious capacity.
The Institute is definitely nicer then one would expect and there ARE RP reasons to join, but this is a Bethesda made Fallout instead of an Obsidian one so there isn't gonna be any opportunity to sit them down and shake sense into them about the sentience of their creations.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on November 14, 2015, 06:26:13 pm
Post by: BFEL on November 14, 2015, 06:29:24 pm
I'm probably gonna go railroad too, though I have to ask, can you officially join the brotherhood of steel or are you just limited to initiate?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 14, 2015, 06:34:15 pm
Post by: Teneb on November 14, 2015, 06:50:16 pm
I'm probably gonna go railroad too, though I have to ask, can you officially join the brotherhood of steel or are you just limited to initiate?Yeah, you can.
Also, it should be spoilere'd, yeah.
Post by: Sirian on November 14, 2015, 07:14:48 pm
My settlementing interface keeps telling me to "build something that requires power" despite having built a whole lot of stuff that does so (and powered them).
It's annoying.
I had that too, I fixed it by building one of the powered turrets and linking it to the grid, then storing it away for later use.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 14, 2015, 07:22:39 pm
How many people are playing on PC with an nvidia card and not crashing randomly? ("Display driver stopped responding and recovered") Happens pretty randomly - could be five minutes into loading in, could be hours in.
Apparently it is a thing, which explains my own problems. Found lots of suggested fixes but none of them work; I'm not sure if it's because of multiple factors causing the same problem, or if the people posting them think they work just because they got lucky and went a few hours without crashing, but didn't report back to their own post to say that the fix didn't work after all. Read at least one post saying that he seemed to run fine with a 770 versus the 680, though that doesn't help me with a 660 TI.
Nvidia Geforce 720m here. I've encountered no crashes at all.
I've encounter three bugs so far in my 26 hours.
Two were graphical - the glow from a laser turret remained in place in the air after it was destroyed and a water ripple was a foot above the water.
The last glitch was a radroach stuck inside a wall.
Post by: Gabeux on November 14, 2015, 07:28:45 pm
So I'm interested in listening what the Railroad has to say, but haven't bumped into them yet. So I currently think they are people who have fetishes for robots.
I mean, I don't see the point of that faction just by hearing a tape and reading a note from them. Probably there's a whole lot more to it, though.
I joined the Brotherhood as initiate and I'm doing their stuff. As you can hear in probably the first holotape about them, you'll hear that:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I also joined the Minutemen. I think they are a basic foundation for the future of the Commonwealth.
But they seem overly stupid (Hey, let's save the world by walking around looking dumb with some flashy guns and protect people! We don't know what tactics or strategy are, though, but that's pre-war stuff!). Seem like it needs a dose of a Lone Survivor to get them on the right track.
Still don't know a whole lot about the factions though, and BoS/Minutemen is really the ones I have contact with.
I didn't do many quests yet, as I always go around exploring and building.
And by the way, the first time I saw someone walking in a T-60 was pretty awesome. It looks great!
Post by: Vendayn on November 14, 2015, 07:29:20 pm
The other factions, except militiamen, seemed lame. Institute gets a bad ending supposedly (really boring I heard), railroad too liberal. Militiamen are awesome though, more neutral of bunch, them and brotherhood my favorites. Institute I like, but kinda more if I was playing evil.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 14, 2015, 07:37:59 pm
Post by: BFEL on November 14, 2015, 07:43:30 pm
At least in the sense it fits the goals of a murderhobo player.
I mean, The Institute is evil in a "We're used to having these things do all our work for us and now we're uncomfortable with the idea they might be sentient so we're gonna just ignore that" way, whereas BOS is evil in the "We don't give a shit if they're sentient, and if they are that just makes us wanna murder them all even more because NO ONE ELSE CAN HAVE NICE THINGS."
So basically Institute is colonial slaver evil, and BOS is Nazi evil.
Post by: Putnam on November 14, 2015, 07:45:50 pm
like, the kid from Fallout 3 descended from the founder of the BOS over in the west?
...and he brought the BOS back to what they usually do?
huh, that's actually interesting
Post by: Kot on November 14, 2015, 07:51:24 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on November 14, 2015, 07:54:23 pm
wait holy shit maxson??
like, the kid from Fallout 3 descended from the founder of the BOS over in the west?
...and he brought the BOS back to what they usually do?
huh, that's actually interesting
IDK, as I mentioned earlier, he was mentioned as "Elder Maxson" -- I took that in combination with ZE GIANT SPOILER to mean that the main BoS had gobbled up the Wasteland splinter group. Unless the kid became Elder at a damned young age (relatively speaking) and managed to bootstrap up from "OMG we captured a couple vertibirds in working order, huzzah!" to what we see in FO4.
Post by: DoomOnion on November 14, 2015, 07:57:01 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Teneb on November 14, 2015, 08:21:27 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on November 14, 2015, 08:37:43 pm
Spoilers regarding Maxson belowSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Ah, cool, that would explain it.
Regarding your question:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gabeux on November 14, 2015, 09:03:20 pm
I stepped away from the site for a minute and when I came back, the box had some ammo in it, and no T-60b.
My heart is broken. Even though I already have one (and half of a X-01), that was just sad.
Well, I got almost 10 frames hanging around in Sanctuary. lol so I guess I shouldn't be that much sad.
I'm kinda liking this PA collecting thing.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 14, 2015, 09:09:52 pm
Post by: BFEL on November 14, 2015, 09:34:24 pm
Sentient robots are scary as fuck.No more scary then sentient anything else.
Post by: Egan_BW on November 14, 2015, 09:38:29 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 14, 2015, 10:29:41 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: umiman on November 14, 2015, 10:53:52 pm
Ok. Turns out one of my Settlers was a Synth, I think. That's a subtle, weird thing....Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Huh... that explains why I found those on my dead settlers as well...
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 14, 2015, 11:39:43 pm
What exactly are the Minutemen? Who is in it? How is taking settlements helping in it? How do I increase coverage in order to get better likelihoods of support from flare guns?
I'm guessing at this point that settlements I directly own are owned by the Minutemen. Am I also guess I AM the Minutemen. But if my settlements are Minutemen locations, how do they impact flare gun support?
Brotherhood seems to control territory via "Feeding the Troops" repeatable quest? I get a message telling me the Brotherhood owns the area when I convince the settlers there, but what exactly does it mean? Is this a settlement I could have captured myself? Does the brotherhood owning it change anything?
Post by: Aseaheru on November 15, 2015, 12:25:11 am
Spoiler: Minor spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, no clue about the BOS lands yet.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 15, 2015, 01:50:13 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Re: my own game, I just found my waifu and used console commands to fix her. Mostly. She still just stands around and spouts two or three brush-off lines while refusing to talk to me, but that's a step up from trying to kill me. <3 Talia.
But. Uh. If you recognize that name, you'll know why I had to use console commands--I didn't exactly want to not get a free fortified settlement. Thing is, there were problems along the way. Funny, gruesome problems. No spoilers, only pictures.
Spoiler: Very wrong. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Nnnnnnope. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Thankfully, fast-traveling away and back fixed her. (click to show/hide)
So now I get to keep my jittery traumatized woobie waifu in my new settlement and don't have to kill her because she was helped by [spoilers expunged]. Bethesda really dropped the ball on this particular little story, it's even more hamfisted and binary than Fallout 3's main conflict.
Post by: Putnam on November 15, 2015, 01:53:54 am
it's even more hamfisted and binary than Fallout 3's main conflict.
i don't believe you
Post by: Sirian on November 15, 2015, 02:25:13 am
Lone Survivor
You mean "Sole Survivor". You're mixing it up with the Lone Wanderer.
Anyways, I just found something interesting while confronting a raider boss who had a minigun. I killed the boss and one of the raiders picked up the minigun, so I killed her too, and when I collected the loot, both the boss and the raider had 500 ammo (a bit less for the boss since she had the time to use some). I reloaded the save because I did something stupid, redid the fight, but this time I tried to kill the boss first. I let two of the raiders pick up the minigun and killed them as soon as they had it, and guess what, both raiders had 500 ammo.
So basically, free ammo exploit, yay :)
Post by: Flying Dice on November 15, 2015, 03:19:55 am
it's even more hamfisted and binary than Fallout 3's main conflict.
i don't believe you
It legitimately is.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 15, 2015, 04:43:07 am
The Silver Shroud in the radio channel is voiced by the same guy who did the guards in Oblivion. I think. It fits so well!
Post by: sprinkled chariot on November 15, 2015, 05:10:50 am
Post by: Flying Dice on November 15, 2015, 05:33:03 am
Post by: Niveras on November 15, 2015, 06:30:07 am
Scrapped a bunch thinking it was the case since I had a bunch of extra mods somehow previously, not having actually picked them up anywhere, but I guess they were just ones I had swapped out of my current weapons. No big loss I guess, but would've been nice to save all the nuclear material from those glow-sighted weapons I brought home.
Post by: miauw62 on November 15, 2015, 06:37:05 am
Post by: BFEL on November 15, 2015, 08:27:26 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 15, 2015, 08:31:02 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 15, 2015, 08:31:35 am
Have you seen a screwdriver anywhere in the wasteland? :PYes.
We scrapped them into steel and wood.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 15, 2015, 08:32:07 am
Post by: miauw62 on November 15, 2015, 08:40:06 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 15, 2015, 08:46:46 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 15, 2015, 08:51:12 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 15, 2015, 08:53:53 am
Post by: miauw62 on November 15, 2015, 08:57:43 am
Post by: Catastrophic lolcats on November 15, 2015, 08:58:12 am
Post by: Flying Dice on November 15, 2015, 09:05:03 am
Post by: Niveras on November 15, 2015, 10:25:02 am
Have you seen a screwdriver anywhere in the wasteland? :P
You use one while for lockpicking?
Post by: Stuebi on November 15, 2015, 10:35:40 am
Slight Spoilers for a later Minutemen-Base (Pictures for those interested!):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Then, on the subject of Factions and the Story:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on November 15, 2015, 10:41:53 am
Man, swedish completely lacks any short and concise words for "return".
Post by: motorbitch on November 15, 2015, 11:53:24 am
im fairly sure its shader based, as somtimes (very rarely with bright lighting) it produces strange, compression like artifacts, and its very fast.
anyway, aside of these very rare artifacts, it doesnt seem to produce any texture blur, and the antialiasing quality itself is totally astonishing, almost perfect even on difficult textures like trees or fences and thing wires at any angle.
very very impressive. i never have seen this before, but i totally hope it will be used in more games in the future.
Post by: miauw62 on November 15, 2015, 12:31:52 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 15, 2015, 12:48:26 pm
Post by: Graknorke on November 15, 2015, 12:51:45 pm
Post by: Teneb on November 15, 2015, 01:16:49 pm
Post by: sprinkled chariot on November 15, 2015, 01:21:51 pm
Post by: redwallzyl on November 15, 2015, 01:26:48 pm
You cant wear gasmask together with helmet, moduled armour, they told. :-\aren't there several types of gasmask?
Post by: Gabeux on November 15, 2015, 01:30:42 pm
Is it just me, or does some children clothing in the game make they seem like tiny adults? I think those on Diamond City are fine, but I found two very weird ones.
On Power Armors, now I understand why adhesive is consumed more than water and why it takes long to unlock the last level of Armorer.
With half of a X-01 (with one arm and leg of a T-60), I'm making the parts all "Mark V" (I think there's 6 defence upgrades, I'm at the 5th), with a Tesla upgrade that constantly shocks and damages nearby enemies, and a helmet upgrade that highlights any living being. With Rank 3 Science and Gun Nut, this makes me more OP than anything I have encountered. To test it, I walked around a bit and I probably killed 50+ Super Mutants - not much health lost and armor is fine. It feels better than I thought it would.
I need to make more adhesive ASAP bwhaha!
I'll start changing pace since I'm taking too long to do the quests (I haven't got through the beggining on BoS, Minutemen or the main story!). So I'm using the heavily modified X-01 to tank through quests. Feels good man.
Post by: miauw62 on November 15, 2015, 01:34:40 pm
As much as I'm enjoying the game, I do have to agree with most of the things said here. Which is weird, because I'm really, really loving this game so far.
Post by: Niveras on November 15, 2015, 01:43:42 pm
a helmet upgrade that highlights any living being.
Man, I would love to have a helm/glasses item that did just that alone. But no way it exists in the base game, since it would need to consume resources (probably fusion cell ammo) to be balanced, and there control scheme is too rigid for some kind of toggle to be included for something like that.
But mods, of course.
Would also have preferred to see the ability to assign multiple items to the same fav slot. Someone mentioned this earlier but you'd think it would've been a pretty obvious thing to add, given that a lot of items don't play nicely with the "layered" system, and having to swap gear in and out for rad resistance vs physical resistance at least.
I keep forgetting to rename my gear to make switching back and forth easier.
As an aside, I really hate that power attack/melee attack is the same key as grenade. How many times now have I molotoved myself in the face?
Post by: Kot on November 15, 2015, 01:53:09 pm
Man, I would love to have a helm/glasses item that did just that alone. But no way it exists in the base game, since it would need to consume resources (probably fusion cell ammo) to be balanced, and there control scheme is too rigid for some kind of toggle to be included for something like that.F4SE when? (http://f4se.silverlock.org/)
Post by: miauw62 on November 15, 2015, 01:53:55 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 15, 2015, 01:59:23 pm
a helmet upgrade that highlights any living being.
Man, I would love to have a helm/glasses item that did just that alone. But no way it exists in the base game, since it would need to consume resources (probably fusion cell ammo) to be balanced, and there control scheme is too rigid for some kind of toggle to be included for something like that.
But mods, of course.
Would also have preferred to see the ability to assign multiple items to the same fav slot. Someone mentioned this earlier but you'd think it would've been a pretty obvious thing to add, given that a lot of items don't play nicely with the "layered" system, and having to swap gear in and out for rad resistance vs physical resistance at least.
I keep forgetting to rename my gear to make switching back and forth easier.
As an aside, I really hate that power attack/melee attack is the same key as grenade. How many times now have I molotoved myself in the face?
Hahaha, so funny we all bump into the same things. I agree completely.
I already want a toggle, because it looks really silly to have friends/companions being highlighted when you're talking to them. Makes you want to drop out of power armor on every cutscene.
And I renamed my guns to "Blue's [weapon]", like "Blue's Plasma Shotgun" so it all stays together on the menu. Same thing for companion weapons. It makes it all so much easier.
Also, yep. I killed many settlers during attacks already, and I thrown a nuke grenade in my face twice.
Since my weapons no longer have bayonets, that's been happening a lot less. :P
EDIT: PUNY HUMANS
Spoiler: Lifesign Highlight (click to show/hide)
Post by: miauw62 on November 15, 2015, 01:59:55 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 15, 2015, 02:51:06 pm
I renamed my extensively modded pipe pistol "I'm out of 10mm ammo" (even though I hardly use my 10mm pistol, i basically only use my pipe pistol and sometimes my double-barelled shotgun)Excellent.
Pretty interesting review for Fallout 4. (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/11/12/fallout-4-pc-review/)Sounds like my reaction on seeing a certain MGS5 review. "Huh yeah, the game is objectively bad for those reasons. I can't want to keep playing it!"
As much as I'm enjoying the game, I do have to agree with most of the things said here. Which is weird, because I'm really, really loving this game so far.
it's even more hamfisted and binary than Fallout 3's main conflict.
i don't believe you
Unless you have something better than jet (generic amphetamines) or super mutants (the Enclave was the US GOVT, and basically vault tech, they had multiple test sites)
Oops sorry you weren't criticizing the lore, there.
Post by: Putnam on November 15, 2015, 03:05:47 pm
also, yeah, i wasn't criticizing the lore, just the story; i don't believe that there's something more hamfisted and binary than FO3 because I was reasonably sure that that's impossible
Post by: Rolan7 on November 15, 2015, 03:12:31 pm
Likewise people say that FO3 shouldn't have super mutants since it's so far from Mariposa. But I guess anyone who played through FO3 probably knows that DC had an alternate FEV test site. Which makes sense since the Enclave was the US government and wasn't restricted to one region.
Edit: I also think FO3's main plot was fine, even good, but that's pretty subjective so I don't blame you for that
Post by: Putnam on November 15, 2015, 03:25:03 pm
i mean that part is explained really well
everything else about the east coast super mutants are idiotic though
generic goddamn orcs who have some sort of ill-explained stupid instinctual drive to dip more people
Post by: Rolan7 on November 15, 2015, 03:29:54 pm
Post by: Putnam on November 15, 2015, 03:36:59 pm
Post by: Yoink on November 15, 2015, 04:05:12 pm
Punching robots is the most fun ever.
Post by: Wiles on November 15, 2015, 04:40:12 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 15, 2015, 04:49:29 pm
Melee combat is pretty damn satisfying so far.
Punching robots is the most fun ever.
I really love fighting robots. The more you shoot them, the more parts fall off. Mr Handys and Synths are awesome. I wasn't expecting that level of detail from Beth.
Also, on low levels, fighting broken Mr Gutsies is rather hard since they move a lot and they are missing parts, so it makes it damn hard to hit. When their armor falls off it looks even more freaky.
And by the way, I started going to towns and thing that normal players should do. Damn, I'm happy with it.
I'm also loving the companions. I mean, even if most characters are rather bland or uninteresting, the way each companion reacts, interacts with the world and with each other, and hold very different opinions, likes and distates..it's pretty amazing (very fitting) for a Fallout game. A step in the right direction for sure.
It sort of piss me off that I just got a follower that dislikes when I use Power Armor, since I didn't use PA's until right now. Cleared even crazy places without it.
But of course, now that I'm using it, someone wants to judge me.
There's also a racist one that dislikes Ghouls. I'm always chill with ghouls, so I have to compensate for the dislikes in other ways.
In other note, the game is really slow and awkward in the beginning - especially if you don't go directly to the quest marks. Just exploring without no context, like I did, feels increasingly weird (even if it's fun as hell).
Compared to FO3, for instance, that weirdness barely happens because when you start, there's a huge probability you'll get to Megaton or some other place, which will give some sort of framework and context with lore, world info, faction info, surroundings info, etc.
That's why I think a lot of newbies (and even some types of fans) can be pissed with FO4 at the start. To get any real sense of the world, you have to head to Diamond City, which is far as f***.
It's just my opinion/feeling though, not sure if anyone got that.
I was wandering through the commonwealth when I ran into a small group of super mutants and Brotherhood knights fighting each other. I closed in to help out the knights when suddenly I heard a minigun going off. I ran for cover and equipped my sniper rifle so I could take out the minigun wielding mutant from a distance. Much to my surprise it was not a mutant holding the minigun, it was my companion dishing out justice with it. She must have grabbed it off of a dead supermutant. I have not seen my companion pick up a gun in the 30 hours I've put into the game so it caught me completely off guard!Hah yes! It happened two times. One of them, the companion picked up a Gamma Gun. I was closing in on the dudes to shotgun them, and the companion killed me. Sad day.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 15, 2015, 04:57:41 pm
It's really cool! And like someone said earlier, the ghouls are... something.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on November 15, 2015, 04:58:17 pm
I find it funny how there isn't a way to point out Nick's... Odd, appearance until he specifically mentions that he is a thing even though it's clearly noticable from the moment you meet him.
Post by: Kot on November 15, 2015, 05:07:05 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 15, 2015, 05:08:37 pm
Post by: Kot on November 15, 2015, 05:11:13 pm
(Also, Nick has a nose? I think...)
Post by: miauw62 on November 15, 2015, 05:12:48 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 15, 2015, 05:12:57 pm
Post by: Virtz on November 15, 2015, 05:29:21 pm
lol people who say THAT about fallout 3's super mutants are dumbHey, fuck you too, buddy.
i mean that part is explained really well
everything else about the east coast super mutants are idiotic though
generic goddamn orcs who have some sort of ill-explained stupid instinctual drive to dip more people
It's shitty writing to retcon in YET ANOTHER transfer of FEV research (over such a huge distance compared to the first transfer at that) for the sake of explaining why they shoved in a memorable faction from the first game. Same goes for the other two factions' excuses. Like there's nothing of interest in the Fallout universe outside of what happened in the West coast like a hundred years ago. Instantly the game's lore becomes really shallow, with a handful of small factions operating everywhere despite existing in a post-apocalyptic hell hole with limited means of long-range communication and travel.
Post by: Sartain on November 15, 2015, 05:32:50 pm
I'm also loving the companions. I mean, even if most characters are rather bland or uninteresting, the way each companion reacts, interacts with the world and with each other, and hold very different opinions, likes and distates..it's pretty amazing (very fitting) for a Fallout game. A step in the right direction for sure.
It sort of piss me off that I just got a follower that dislikes when I use Power Armor, since I didn't use PA's until right now. Cleared even crazy places without it.
But of course, now that I'm using it, someone wants to judge me.
There's also a racist one that dislikes Ghouls. I'm always chill with ghouls, so I have to compensate for the dislikes in other ways.
In other note, the game is really slow and awkward in the beginning - especially if you don't go directly to the quest marks. Just exploring without no context, like I did, feels increasingly weird (even if it's fun as hell).
Compared to FO3, for instance, that weirdness barely happens because when you start, there's a huge probability you'll get to Megaton or some other place, which will give some sort of framework and context with lore, world info, faction info, surroundings info, etc.
That's why I think a lot of newbies (and even some types of fans) can be pissed with FO4 at the start. To get any real sense of the world, you have to head to Diamond City, which is far as f***.
It's just my opinion/feeling though, not sure if anyone got that.
Yeah, the companions are, not unexpectedly, pretty boring so far.
I do like Nick Valentine though but I get the feeling we're not going to be friends any more after I joined the Brotherhood of Steel...
Also, Bethesda's idea of romanceable companions is laughable :)
I mean, I'm not looking for a dating simulator or anything like that but it's basically just raise their affection until max, have a conversation where you both go "I wuv u" and get a perk for your troubles. Oh yeah, and the ability to be extra well rested if you "use" a bed while they're nearby. It's not that there's anything wrong with a mostly implied romance but the whole "I love you, I love you too, even though I've only been thawed out for less than 2 months and I had a partner before that" and then not even so much as an animation of a kiss, a hug, holding hands, ANYTHING. Pretty lame shit. Not that I was expecting anything more than that but calling it romanceable companions seems like a stretch.
Regarding going to settlements, I restarted after playing my first game for a day or two, and decided to play the game like I felt would be realistic, which in effect meant bee-lining straight for any traces of my missing child obviously, and considering all other quests only relevant so far as they contributed to that. So I headed straight for Diamond City, and often got in over my head since the main quest took me places I was not levelled or outfitted for, but it actually felt pretty nice to do it like that. Of course now there's a bit of a natural slowdown in the urgency of the main story so I had the time to actually help out around Sanctuary and join the Brotherhood.
Settlement building is fun enough, but I really wish those smucks at Sanctuary Hills, and all the other places you can get, would do some damn work of their own instead of just loafing around when I'm not there.
Post by: miauw62 on November 15, 2015, 05:35:37 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 15, 2015, 05:51:04 pm
Precedent for eastward journeys was established by (noncanon, granted) Fallout Tactics. Even discounting that, it's not crazy.lol people who say THAT about fallout 3's super mutants are dumbHey, fuck you too, buddy.
i mean that part is explained really well
everything else about the east coast super mutants are idiotic though
generic goddamn orcs who have some sort of ill-explained stupid instinctual drive to dip more people
It's shitty writing to retcon in YET ANOTHER transfer of FEV research (over such a huge distance compared to the first transfer at that) for the sake of explaining why they shoved in a memorable faction from the first game. Same goes for the other two factions' excuses. Like there's nothing of interest in the Fallout universe outside of what happened in the West coast like a hundred years ago. Instantly the game's lore becomes really shallow, with a handful of small factions operating everywhere despite existing in a post-apocalyptic hell hole with limited means of long-range communication and travel.
But FEV... Why would that necessarily be in just one military base? One that, apparently and mysteriously, had no (loud) Enclave/US agents present.
Honestly curious as to what you mean by "yet another", were there really more than two FEV sites? Thought it was just Mariposa and DC
Post by: Neonivek on November 15, 2015, 06:02:34 pm
But don't take it so seriously. Just treat it as some weird coincidence. I am sure Super Mutants are embarrassed about it.
Post by: BigD145 on November 15, 2015, 06:06:07 pm
If they're not assigned, they apparently scavenge stuff. Not sure what exactly.
There's a scavenging bench that you can assign your populace to. Unassigned, they mostly just sleep.
Post by: Virtz on November 15, 2015, 06:30:05 pm
Precedent for eastward journeys was established by (noncanon, granted) Fallout Tactics. Even discounting that, it's not crazy.WestTek Research Facility (The Glow) in California -> Mariposa Military Base in California (US Army, so not sure what you mean by no US agents) -> Some Vault-Tec vault far away in the East, retconned after the fact with no mention in FO1 or 2. So I guess not more than 3, but it still creates this precedent where you can flimsily retcon in FEV anywhere.
But FEV... Why would that necessarily be in just one military base? One that, apparently and mysteriously, had no (loud) Enclave/US agents present.
Honestly curious as to what you mean by "yet another", were there really more than three FEV sites? Thought it was just Mariposa and DC
"Actually there was a backup FEV vault in Canada, so we can have Super Mutants in Fallout: New Toronto."
And really the problem is all these excuses for the 3 most memorable factions compound into showing that they didn't write cause first and effect later, they started with an effect they wanted and made up a bunch of improbable causes to excuse it. They didn't write what made sense for each faction to do next, they wrote whatever it took to get the factions where they wanted them.
Post by: Kot on November 15, 2015, 06:35:28 pm
Post by: Cyroth on November 15, 2015, 06:36:24 pm
Yeah, the companions are, not unexpectedly, pretty boring so far.
Agreed. So far I've only seen 2 that are interesting.
Piper because every so often she makes comments that are downright hilarious and leave me laughing for a good while (like her "I was expecting some crap like "the treasure is yoooooouuuuuuu"" when you find the "treasure" of a sidequest).
Curie because I find it strangely endearing when she considers doing weird or dangerous stuff "For Science!"
Settlement building is fun enough, but I really wish those smucks at Sanctuary Hills, and all the other places you can get, would do some damn work of their own instead of just loafing around when I'm not there.
If you have one of the bigger water purifiers (those that need electricity) they will sometimes dump clean water into your workbench.
Scavenger benches will produce random crap and dump it into the workbench when someone is assigned to them.
Shops will every now and then throw some caps into the workbench if someone is assigned to them.
Probably a few other things that also produce things. Kinda sad you're never told that stuff ingame.
Post by: Gabeux on November 15, 2015, 06:52:24 pm
Also, Bethesda's idea of romanceable companions is laughable :)
Indeed it is. The only difference it makes is the Lover's Comfort when sleeping. And I expected that at least hand's holding would happen. Nope.
It's a really weird thing. As you said "I wuv u / I wuv u too now we're together" and it stays like that. It feels half-made.
I was also not interested in a dating sim. But this is really weird.
Then again, all the stuff I found weird/disliked/got a bit annoyed by, can be fixed through patches or DLCs. Mods could just overhaul all that..but why do I get a feeling that modders are gonna have a hard time in this one? With UI and API stuff, I mean. I wonder how extensible they made it.
Post by: Kot on November 15, 2015, 07:05:04 pm
Post by: umiman on November 15, 2015, 07:08:51 pm
Settlement building is fun enough, but I really wish those smucks at Sanctuary Hills, and all the other places you can get, would do some damn work of their own instead of just loafing around when I'm not there.You can assign those morons to do things. They'll wander off every once in awhile but the game considers them as "doing" the work. Just use the same "e" function like anyone else.
Post by: Ultimuh on November 15, 2015, 07:24:35 pm
The sex mods will surely upgrade the romanceable stuff, I can bet on that. The Oblivion, Fo3 and Skyrim had proably the most moddable in-game sex ever, though buggy as hell and with laughable animations because scripters can't into animation.
Skyrim has a certain.. mod framework which enables you to use animations by.. err.. animators.
Also, a certain romance mod makes use of said framework and does so quite well.
However it is still an.. erm.. questionable.. mod.
So if you are easily offended by porn or other content related to sex, it is probably not a mod you would like.
However the modder who made the romance mod, have made a SFW version which is on the Skyrim Nexus.
Post by: Kot on November 15, 2015, 07:30:49 pm
You're proably speaking of FNIS. It's not only a "certain romance mod" from Nexus but whole bunch (like, shitton, a lot of them in varied stages of WIP) mods on certain site (the people behind it made a visual sex mod even for Morrowind, which is SOMETHING), most of them are heavily centered on "not-exactly-vanilla" sex. The Oblivion mods are even more... extensive due to game being around for much longer and the F:NV (F3 got barely any support, for some reason) also had a lot of it, even more "not-exactly-vanilla" due to stuff like NCRCF and Legion way of treating women. And there is even more of this stuff if you're willing to dive into Japanese internets.The sex mods will surely upgrade the romanceable stuff, I can bet on that. The Oblivion, Fo3 and Skyrim had proably the most moddable in-game sex ever, though buggy as hell and with laughable animations because scripters can't into animation.
Skyrim has a certain.. mod framework which enables you to use animations by.. err.. animators.
Also, a certain romance mod makes use of said framework and does so quite well.
However it is still an.. erm.. questionable.. mod.
So if you are easily offended by porn or other content related to sex, it is probably not a mod you would like.
However the modder who made the romance mod, have made a SFW version which is on the Skyrim Nexus.
Don't ask me where I got this extensive knowledge.
EDIT:
Also, yeah, they started working on FO4 even before the game got relased (making meshes of less-than-revealing outfits and stuff, planning the whole thing and stuff, making art and basically doing a circlejerk (quite literally)) and while now they are busy playing the vanilla game waiting for F4SE, it's safe to asume we're going to get a lot of it soon.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 15, 2015, 07:35:19 pm
FNIS is a tool used to help make animations and skeletons play nice. He's talking about Sexlab.You're proably speaking of FNIS. It's not only a "certain romance mod" from Nexus but whole bunch (like, shitton, a lot of them in varied stages of WIP) mods on certain site (the people behind it made a visual sex mod even for Morrowind, which is SOMETHING), most of them are heavily centered on not-exactly-vanilla sex. The Oblivion mods are even more... extensive due to game being around for much longer and the F:NV (F3 got barely any support, for some reason) also had a lot of it, even more "not-exactly-vanilla" due to stuff like NCRCF and Legion way of treating women. And there is even more of this stuff if you're willing to dive into Japanese internets.The sex mods will surely upgrade the romanceable stuff, I can bet on that. The Oblivion, Fo3 and Skyrim had proably the most moddable in-game sex ever, though buggy as hell and with laughable animations because scripters can't into animation.
Skyrim has a certain.. mod framework which enables you to use animations by.. err.. animators.
Also, a certain romance mod makes use of said framework and does so quite well.
However it is still an.. erm.. questionable.. mod.
So if you are easily offended by porn or other content related to sex, it is probably not a mod you would like.
However the modder who made the romance mod, have made a SFW version which is on the Skyrim Nexus.
Don't ask me where I got this extensive knowledge.
Incidentally, most of the stuff hosted on their site is far beyond "questionable", so I'd heartily recommend never fucking going there.
//Unrelated: Those of you bothered by sleeping with companions? There's a chance for a one-night stand with a singer, depending on how fast you move, easily inside of two or three days of dethawing.
Post by: Kot on November 15, 2015, 07:39:25 pm
I am also talking about SexLab, but I thought he spoke about FNIS, since you still need FNIS to use the animations which is the closest thing to framework, as SexLab handles only firing them off in correct order and a bunch of sex-related stuff, not using them, but whatever. Also, indeed, the "not-exactly-vanilla" sex means rape, bestiality and other random stuff, but there is a two or three completly consensual and heartwarming mods there, somehow.FNIS is a tool used to help make animations and skeletons play nice. He's talking about Sexlab.You're proably speaking of FNIS. It's not only a "certain romance mod" from Nexus but whole bunch (like, shitton, a lot of them in varied stages of WIP) mods on certain site (the people behind it made a visual sex mod even for Morrowind, which is SOMETHING), most of them are heavily centered on not-exactly-vanilla sex. The Oblivion mods are even more... extensive due to game being around for much longer and the F:NV (F3 got barely any support, for some reason) also had a lot of it, even more "not-exactly-vanilla" due to stuff like NCRCF and Legion way of treating women. And there is even more of this stuff if you're willing to dive into Japanese internets.The sex mods will surely upgrade the romanceable stuff, I can bet on that. The Oblivion, Fo3 and Skyrim had proably the most moddable in-game sex ever, though buggy as hell and with laughable animations because scripters can't into animation.
Skyrim has a certain.. mod framework which enables you to use animations by.. err.. animators.
Also, a certain romance mod makes use of said framework and does so quite well.
However it is still an.. erm.. questionable.. mod.
So if you are easily offended by porn or other content related to sex, it is probably not a mod you would like.
However the modder who made the romance mod, have made a SFW version which is on the Skyrim Nexus.
Don't ask me where I got this extensive knowledge.
Incidentally, most of the stuff hosted on their site is far beyond "questionable", so I'd heartily recommend never fucking going there.
//Unrelated: Those of you bothered by sleeping with companions? There's a chance for a one-night stand with a singer, depending on how fast you move, easily inside of two or three days of dethawing.
Post by: BigD145 on November 15, 2015, 07:49:03 pm
Prediction ahoy
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on November 15, 2015, 08:06:18 pm
Post by: Ultimuh on November 15, 2015, 08:11:47 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 15, 2015, 08:14:14 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rolan7 on November 15, 2015, 08:14:35 pm
Yeah, that'd work.
Post by: Bauglir on November 15, 2015, 08:29:09 pm
oh who am i kidding we all know why it's in there
Post by: redwallzyl on November 15, 2015, 08:40:46 pm
Post by: BFEL on November 15, 2015, 08:43:15 pm
Post by: MaximumZero on November 15, 2015, 08:57:47 pm
If they're not assigned, they apparently scavenge stuff. Not sure what exactly.They scavenge crafting materials, and sometimes food (I think). It's put directly into your workbench.
Post by: BigD145 on November 15, 2015, 09:58:58 pm
Um, hello?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Probably as smooth as a Metatron.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sirian on November 15, 2015, 10:16:44 pm
Anyways, if you're against ghouls, aim for the legs ! Then finish them in the head when there's no more of them coming after you.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 15, 2015, 10:26:52 pm
Post by: SealyStar on November 15, 2015, 10:38:53 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on November 15, 2015, 11:38:16 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 15, 2015, 11:43:23 pm
Um, hello?Well, I know who I'M romancing when I get the game.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: ShoesandHats on November 15, 2015, 11:59:16 pm
Spoiler: Big ol' ending spoilerinos! Watch out! (click to show/hide)
Post by: Zanzetkuken The Great on November 16, 2015, 12:07:47 am
I was watching some videos about the base-building mechanics and now I'm wondering if, between Fallout 4 and MGSV, base building is going to be the new equivalent of simplistic item crafting or rudimentary stealth mechanics that gets crammed into every AAA game. Not to say I dislike any of these either in principle or their implementation, but I'm interested in whether there's any other evidence for such an upcoming phase.
It'll probably jump up in the sandbox genre and possibly some RPGs, but I don't see how it could crop up in too many other genres.
Curious, what is the lowest spec computer people have been able to run the game on decently?
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 16, 2015, 12:13:19 am
A question regarding the ending(s):Just go the New Vegas way: kill literally everyone who isn't essential and go with whoever is.Spoiler: Big ol' ending spoilerinos! Watch out! (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on November 16, 2015, 12:14:18 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gabeux on November 16, 2015, 12:48:03 am
I probably never even gonna have the patience to sell all that.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 16, 2015, 12:52:19 am
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 16, 2015, 03:10:21 am
Imagine if they went the FO1->FO2 route, and in FO5/whatever you could see the player settlements from the Commonwealth become a superpower rivaling NCR!
Post by: BFEL on November 16, 2015, 04:52:26 am
Man, the SPECIAL bobbleheads are almost all really clustered.I require your knowledge sirSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Neonivek on November 16, 2015, 05:00:15 am
Since I thought that paper money wasn't useless but rather that it was so uncommon that it became an extremely unreliable source of currency (though Fallout 3, NV, and 4 seem to throw TONS of it at you), yet there are millions of bottlecaps still lying around.
Supported by the fact that paper money even is worth more then bottlecaps.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on November 16, 2015, 05:07:11 am
Post by: Niveras on November 16, 2015, 05:46:05 am
Although I have 5000 caps and I have done almost no trading at all, so... I do have two ranks in the "more caps" luck perk but that's a lot of money to have found just randomly.
Re:bobbleheads, I'm more concerned that I am missing valuable magazine collectibles than I am in missing bobbleheads. The SPECIAL stats don't seem too important now that you can just put a point in them whenever you level up, but some of the mags give unique bonuses.
Post by: Neonivek on November 16, 2015, 06:03:51 am
I am not there quite yet but I suspect this might have the same situation as Skyrim where you actually have a lot more assets then you do money because there simply aren't enough places to sell everything.
Post by: Sartain on November 16, 2015, 06:12:33 am
Also, Bethesda's idea of romanceable companions is laughable :)
Indeed it is. The only difference it makes is the Lover's Comfort when sleeping. And I expected that at least hand's holding would happen. Nope.
It's a really weird thing. As you said "I wuv u / I wuv u too now we're together" and it stays like that. It feels half-made.
I was also not interested in a dating sim. But this is really weird.
Then again, all the stuff I found weird/disliked/got a bit annoyed by, can be fixed through patches or DLCs. Mods could just overhaul all that..but why do I get a feeling that modders are gonna have a hard time in this one? With UI and API stuff, I mean. I wonder how extensible they made it.
Well they managed to make some pretty decent animation work on Kellogg
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: AoshimaMichio on November 16, 2015, 06:19:02 am
I remember using cigarettes (at least cartons and packs) as currency in previous games too (not as actual currency but junk with better than normal value), but in FO4, pre-war money and cigarettes are considered "junk" and get filtered that way. Somewhat annoying in my opinion.Cigarette cartons and packs were used in Fallout New vegas: Dead Money DLC to gain local money. Maybe you were remembering that?
Post by: BFEL on November 16, 2015, 06:38:56 am
Re:bobbleheads, I'm more concerned that I am missing valuable magazine collectibles than I am in missing bobbleheads. The SPECIAL stats don't seem too important now that you can just put a point in them whenever you level up, but some of the mags give unique bonuses.I want to know where they are because I want to make a character with 11 base in all stats as a challenge :P
Post by: scriver on November 16, 2015, 06:53:12 am
Also, spoilers for a certain place northeast of Sanctuary:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Twinwolf on November 16, 2015, 06:55:48 am
Well, considering that one item of old-war money is a pretty thick stack, and... I dunno, if a bottlecap is worth about a current dollar each, then about three bucks for a good, thick roll of toilet paper would work.There's a Game Theory video on how much caps are worth.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 16, 2015, 07:05:29 am
No, I did that as well. Cigarette cartons and packs were very weight-efficient loot.I remember using cigarettes (at least cartons and packs) as currency in previous games too (not as actual currency but junk with better than normal value), but in FO4, pre-war money and cigarettes are considered "junk" and get filtered that way. Somewhat annoying in my opinion.Cigarette cartons and packs were used in Fallout New vegas: Dead Money DLC to gain local money. Maybe you were remembering that?
Man, the SPECIAL bobbleheads are almost all really clustered.I require your knowledge sirSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: STR (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: PER (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: END (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: CHA (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: INT (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: AGI (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: LUK (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Bonus extra super-special free point. (click to show/hide)
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 16, 2015, 07:07:47 am
Cartons are no joke if you need stimulation and... Some other things I forgot.
Post by: Sirian on November 16, 2015, 07:35:26 am
Also, spoilers for a certain place northeast of Sanctuary:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And another small spoiler about that location :
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rolan7 on November 16, 2015, 08:05:58 am
I originally scrapped a lot of chairs and other green-highlighted things but I guess that was somewhat wasteful, I should have stored them instead. But, how do I place things once I've stored them? I guess chairs are just decoration anyway, or maybe happiness...
Also kinda weird that there's a couple of items, patio chair and patio table I think, which are green not-junk but can't actually be stored.
Washisname also came off as crazy as he walked me through the basic needs tutorial despite me having already done everything. "You gonna help or not!?" "I already did help, you crazy coot!"
Post by: Twinwolf on November 16, 2015, 08:07:38 am
I originally scrapped a lot of chairs and other green-highlighted things but I guess that was somewhat wasteful, I should have stored them instead. But, how do I place things once I've stored them? I guess chairs are just decoration anyway, or maybe happiness...From what I've read, when you store something there's a number below that construction, and when you build another of that it takes away from that number rather than your materials.
Post by: Teneb on November 16, 2015, 08:45:42 am
Spoiler: Very minor spoilers, but maybe you want the surprise (click to show/hide)
It also has the best gun vendor I've yet seen.
Post by: IWishIWereSarah on November 16, 2015, 09:09:34 am
got it yesterday, played 10 hours, have 101 save files.
And it feels like I've only just begun :D
Post by: Flying Dice on November 16, 2015, 09:31:39 am
Also, found a new reason to follow Brotherhood vertibirds around (as if getting to loot full suits of T60 from dead Knights wasn't enough): sometimes if you're lucky a gunner will get shot out without the whole craft being destroyed; turns out that they carry the full supply of 5mm ammo for the miniguns they man, I found ~550 rounds on one.
Also also, while you're in Goodneighbor, be sure to look around for quests. One of 'em will nab you a rather nifty gun if you make the correct choices.
Spoiler: It's like getting to use a minigun and a flamer at the same time! (click to show/hide)
Full-auto laser rifles are absurdly good as long as you mod them for as much recoil control/reduction as possible; my attempts at a laser SMG and scattergun went from straight ahead to aiming at the ceiling in less than a second.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 16, 2015, 09:34:32 am
Post by: sprinkled chariot on November 16, 2015, 09:49:28 am
Post by: Sartain on November 16, 2015, 10:06:40 am
I remember using cigarettes (at least cartons and packs) as currency in previous games too (not as actual currency but junk with better than normal value), but in FO4, pre-war money and cigarettes are considered "junk" and get filtered that way. Somewhat annoying in my opinion.Cigarette cartons and packs were used in Fallout New vegas: Dead Money DLC to gain local money. Maybe you were remembering that?
I don't think so, cigarettes were pretty decent commodity items for barter in both Fallout 3 and New Vegas. High value, low weight, relatively plentiful and also makes sense as a bartering item from an in-game point of view. Well except for the fact that they'd all be horribly dry or maybe decidedly dangerous (immediately rather than long-term) to smoke.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on November 16, 2015, 10:23:15 am
Also room with all things does not have weapon mods.
Post by: miauw62 on November 16, 2015, 10:39:14 am
Yeah, I'm sure that if you ran a mod that gives caps weight they were a nice item to carry around.I remember using cigarettes (at least cartons and packs) as currency in previous games too (not as actual currency but junk with better than normal value), but in FO4, pre-war money and cigarettes are considered "junk" and get filtered that way. Somewhat annoying in my opinion.Cigarette cartons and packs were used in Fallout New vegas: Dead Money DLC to gain local money. Maybe you were remembering that?
I don't think so, cigarettes were pretty decent commodity items for barter in both Fallout 3 and New Vegas. High value, low weight, relatively plentiful and also makes sense as a bartering item from an in-game point of view. Well except for the fact that they'd all be horribly dry or maybe decidedly dangerous (immediately rather than long-term) to smoke.
Post by: Neyvn on November 16, 2015, 10:43:58 am
MUST NOT BUY OFF STEAM ATM, MUST NO BUY OF STEAM ATM!!!
GAH I SO WANT THIS GAME!!!!
Sadly cause I am Aussie, Fallout is selling at around 115$ AUD due to the exchange rate being REALLY shitty at a whole 70c for our $ T_T
But EVERYWHERE is all about Fallout! I don't want this anymore!
Post by: Sartain on November 16, 2015, 11:00:33 am
Finally went to Goodneighbor. Gotta say, I was suprised to findthere.Spoiler: Very minor spoilers, but maybe you want the surprise (click to show/hide)
My favorite part of the game so far :D
Post by: sprinkled chariot on November 16, 2015, 12:33:56 pm
NO I MUST WAIT!!!
MUST NOT BUY OFF STEAM ATM, MUST NO BUY OF STEAM ATM!!!
GAH I SO WANT THIS GAME!!!!
Sadly cause I am Aussie, Fallout is selling at around 115$ AUD due to the exchange rate being REALLY shitty at a whole 70c for our $ T_T
But EVERYWHERE is all about Fallout! I don't want this anymore!
Be pirate, sire.
Post by: Bauglir on November 16, 2015, 12:37:48 pm
or, really, do whatever you want, i'm not actually here to judge
just present a counterproposal
Post by: MasterFancyPants on November 16, 2015, 12:56:16 pm
NO I MUST WAIT!!!
MUST NOT BUY OFF STEAM ATM, MUST NO BUY OF STEAM ATM!!!
GAH I SO WANT THIS GAME!!!!
Sadly cause I am Aussie, Fallout is selling at around 115$ AUD due to the exchange rate being REALLY shitty at a whole 70c for our $ T_T
But EVERYWHERE is all about Fallout! I don't want this anymore!
Greenman had it for 20% off. Worth checking out to see if they'll give you the US price. Otherwise I'd go to G2A.
Post by: miauw62 on November 16, 2015, 01:42:00 pm
Spoiler: close to sanctuary (click to show/hide)
Post by: motorbitch on November 16, 2015, 01:52:35 pm
like, having a nice walk through the desert and then having heart attack from thin air? happend to me some 4 times now. im sure no enemy was involved.
also, some of these settlers are getting on my nerves. they repeat their lines over and over and wont shut up when they are near me.
i now started to exile them all somewhere i never visit, without food, water or beds. stupid fuckers. strong was the worst of them, always standing next to the workshops, always blabbering the same 4 lines till i thought i went crazy.
anyway, exiling is a good solution, tho there are these two bitches that where with the group of the 4 minuteman i rescued at the start, and they refuse to let themself get exiled.
maybe i need a more violent solution to make them shut up permanently.
Post by: Gabeux on November 16, 2015, 01:55:23 pm
Finally went to Goodneighbor. Gotta say, I was suprised to findthere.Spoiler: Very minor spoilers, but maybe you want the surprise (click to show/hide)
My favorite part of the game so far :D
I agree completely. I smiled. :P
THE WORLD DELOADS
I SEE GRASS BUT NO GROUND
I FALL DOWN
DED
hahaha, wow. The 3 worst bugs I had was actually the same one: random instakills.
One, I was just walking and passed in front of a car. I die.
Second, walking by a random road...random instakill. (This was probably due to the "disappearing mines when quick loading" bug)
Third, I killed an alpha deathclaw. Looted him. Walked over his corpse......random instakill.
In all three, my guy yells, and I jump from the chair. One of them really scared the shit out of me.
Full-auto laser rifles are absurdly good as long as you mod them for as much recoil control/reduction as possible; my attempts at a laser SMG and scattergun went from straight ahead to aiming at the ceiling in less than a second.
I was planning on going full energy weapons..but I found shotguns and assault rifles much more effective for some reason.
Unless I'm missing something. The only damage perk I have is the Rifleman one, which gives higher damage and armor penetration with semi-auto weapons.
The Assault Rifle is my go-to weapon, currently. It's really good as a semi-auto. I still bring a sniper and a combat shotgun...so much for a "energy weapon" build, ha.
However, I must say that an automatic, full moded, no-reload legendary laser rifle is pretty good. :P
And I'm gonna have to take a break on the game. I've avoided real life for too long after I got it. ::)
E: Almost Ninja'd.
@motorbitch
The way to go is dumping companions on a location. I put them all on Red Rocket.
And Sanctuary...yeah, Sturges is the worst. He hangs by workshops and keeps saying "I'm busy!" and other crap.
Post by: miauw62 on November 16, 2015, 02:13:46 pm
that being a legendary radroach
Post by: DoomOnion on November 16, 2015, 02:16:32 pm
that ghoul merchant named Daisy? I think she's attractive.
That is all.
Post by: Neyvn on November 16, 2015, 02:17:38 pm
HAHAHAH G2A!!!!!NO I MUST WAIT!!!
MUST NOT BUY OFF STEAM ATM, MUST NO BUY OF STEAM ATM!!!
GAH I SO WANT THIS GAME!!!!
Sadly cause I am Aussie, Fallout is selling at around 115$ AUD due to the exchange rate being REALLY shitty at a whole 70c for our $ T_T
But EVERYWHERE is all about Fallout! I don't want this anymore!
Greenman had it for 20% off. Worth checking out to see if they'll give you the US price. Otherwise I'd go to G2A.
OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG!!!!
What is this beautiful place of wonder!?!?!
Post by: Gabeux on November 16, 2015, 02:35:26 pm
man, i just encountered my first legendary
that being a legendary radroach
Was my first one too. Still, I found one of those on level 40. Guess I was just in a 'bad' part of town. :P
Speaking of Goodneighbor, I never imagined that I'd say this, but um,HAHAHAHA Ghoul Lover!
that ghoul merchant named Daisy? I think she's attractive.
That is all.
I'll go for Kleo.
That is all.
(I was going to write "Analyzing.", butt better not)
E: By the way, even though I'm having a blast with the game, I'm all aware of its shortcomings.
I saw this steam review and had a good laugh. Posting this in case someone didn't see it:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Yoink on November 16, 2015, 03:15:21 pm
Who thought that was a good idea? Is this a first-person RPG/shooter or some stupid top-down arcade shoot-'em-up?
Plenty of ways to make tough minibosses without having this nonsensical 'mutating' business. They could at least have enemies, I don't know, duck back and use a stimpack or something instead of just suddenly healing to annoy the player.
I'm okay with having to run from normal enemies, but when an almost-dead enemy inexplicably turns into a fresh enemy it pisses me off.
I don't suppose there's any way to disable them, yet? Otherwise the game is great fun.
Post by: Sartain on November 16, 2015, 03:42:35 pm
anyway, exiling is a good solution, tho there are these two bitches that where with the group of the 4 minuteman i rescued at the start, and they refuse to let themself get exiled.
maybe i need a more violent solution to make them shut up permanently.
I can tell you from experience that that, unfortunately, is also not a option.
Post by: motorbitch on November 16, 2015, 03:46:15 pm
new quest: kidnapping at sanctuary hills.
i go there, i come back. i drop my loot into the workshop. blabla. new quest: kidnapping at sanctuary hills.
sigh. go there. come back. sell some stuff to my own shops.
new quest: kidnapping ah what the fuck.
i turn on the recruitment beacon.
Post by: Niveras on November 16, 2015, 04:01:22 pm
Apparently the default names for modded weapons far, far exceeds what you can name the weapons yourself. I presume this is the same for armor.
I mean, how the hell did that pass QA? Would it really have been that hard, or memory intensive, or whatever other possible reason, to allow custom names to exceed 26 characters? I mean, really?
Grr, and also can't rename things that you can't modify. So I can't rename my charisma "suit" (glasses, hat, dress), to cluster them in my inventory list, because they can't be modified.
C'mon, Bethesda, spend 5 minutes playing your own damn game.
Post by: Ivefan on November 16, 2015, 04:06:36 pm
This game... After getting the large flaws out of the way in the start of the game It just keeps on showing small minor ones the longer one play. Be it game mechanics that when getting more familliar with shows the flaws or small things one notices when the freshness of the experience starts fading.
Spoiler: Common complaints (click to show/hide)
Anyway, The people at Bethseda must have some schizophrenic relationship with time and entropy.
There are so many things in the world that have no relation to elapsed time it seems.
Most objects would have been rubble, rust or dirt with no maintenance and being exposed to acid rain and whatever other enviromental catastrophy the nukes caused.
There are so many skeletons outside that I assume are intended to look like they died when the nukes went off.
The minutemen general has been dead for 3 years but his corpse looks like less than a week passed.
Somehow, one finds pipe weapons and caps in areas that have been sealed for 200 years.
The list can go on for a long time but I guess they went with the dramatic appearance and said fuck logic.
Post by: motorbitch on November 16, 2015, 04:20:14 pm
i wonder if this is the reason why there are so many oil wars. the byproducts of the war apparently produce MORE oil.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on November 16, 2015, 04:39:09 pm
would keep a pipe pistol in safe
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 16, 2015, 04:43:40 pm
Usually when playing a game, one finds all the flaws it has quite early, Be it many or few.
This game... After getting the large flaws out of the way in the start of the game It just keeps on showing small minor ones the longer one play. Be it game mechanics that when getting more familliar with shows the flaws or small things one notices when the freshness of the experience starts fading.Spoiler: Common complaints (click to show/hide)
Anyway, The people at Bethseda must have some schizophrenic relationship with time and entropy.
There are so many things in the world that have no relation to elapsed time it seems.
Most objects would have been rubble, rust or dirt with no maintenance and being exposed to acid rain and whatever other enviromental catastrophy the nukes caused.
There are so many skeletons outside that I assume are intended to look like they died when the nukes went off.
The minutemen general has been dead for 3 years but his corpse looks like less than a week passed.
Somehow, one finds pipe weapons and caps in areas that have been sealed for 200 years.
The list can go on for a long time but I guess they went with the dramatic appearance and said fuck logic.
After 200 years, there wouldn't be anything left of civilisation at all, if it was done realistically. In case you hadn't noticed, Fallout tends towards the unrealistic aspect with its science.
Post by: miauw62 on November 16, 2015, 04:45:46 pm
Usually when playing a game, one finds all the flaws it has quite early, Be it many or few.That last paragraph can apply to basically any fantasy or post-apocalyptic game. You realise that, right?
This game... After getting the large flaws out of the way in the start of the game It just keeps on showing small minor ones the longer one play. Be it game mechanics that when getting more familliar with shows the flaws or small things one notices when the freshness of the experience starts fading.Spoiler: Common complaints (click to show/hide)
Anyway, The people at Bethseda must have some schizophrenic relationship with time and entropy.
There are so many things in the world that have no relation to elapsed time it seems.
Most objects would have been rubble, rust or dirt with no maintenance and being exposed to acid rain and whatever other enviromental catastrophy the nukes caused.
There are so many skeletons outside that I assume are intended to look like they died when the nukes went off.
The minutemen general has been dead for 3 years but his corpse looks like less than a week passed.
Somehow, one finds pipe weapons and caps in areas that have been sealed for 200 years.
The list can go on for a long time but I guess they went with the dramatic appearance and said fuck logic.
Post by: motorbitch on November 16, 2015, 05:03:48 pm
but yeah, after 200 years, allmost everything was rust and rubble.
aaanyway, had a few years to get over this issue.
so, why is the paintjob the same slot as the coatings? i totally want hotrod + prism shielding (even without that +1 agi from hotrod, screw that)
also, more paintjobs. black + white skeleton paint plz.
Post by: Kot on November 16, 2015, 05:05:24 pm
Post by: Graknorke on November 16, 2015, 05:08:28 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 16, 2015, 05:09:38 pm
A lot of details feel weird and could have had a bit more attention, like Ivefan listed. Even if you love playing it, like me, it gets to a point where it makes you sad.
To me, it's extremely weird how they took many steps at the right directions while, at the same time, taking steps back in stuff that used to be praised.
There's no denying that, even though (again) I'm having a blast with the game, it feels like I'm playing Fallout with the Fallout RPG component minimized.
If I didn't love the setting, atmosphere, survival stuff and the series so much, I guess I'd be disappointed too. But I had set my expectations very low.
I just hope that for Fallout 5 (if that ever gets made), they seriously take all the lessons learned and apply it. They don't even need to brainstorm new ideas - just put together all the feedback and praise from FO3, NV and FO4, polish the systems, and that's it.
IMHO, it feels like they did like the guys from Egosoft with X:Rebirth - they tried a sort of reboot if you think about it (except Beth didn't reset the universe, and didn't completely fuck up and remove critical parts of their game). If they were just releasing a sequel, it wouldn't feel so weird to those who played FO3.
I'm not entirely sure why they'd do such a thing. Some people are hoping there will be a "New Vegas" equivalent for Fallout 4 by Obsidian, and that could bring better news.
If anyone ever confirms that, please let me know. :)
Post by: Kot on November 16, 2015, 05:29:36 pm
Well the console commands would be the same when the engine is the same.Yeah, but some of those don't exactly have to, like the test zones and id's for certain items.
Post by: motorbitch on November 16, 2015, 05:32:56 pm
with is relatively stupid, as fallout 1 and 2 themself where anything but perfect.
in fact, if they got released like that today, they would proably see a shitstorm of astonomic magnitude. not only was the graphic not up to the standards of the time, broken quests, logical errors in plot and dialoges, areas that make the game crash if you enter them are nothing customers of today would accept. and i wont even mention the crimes they commited with the localisations.
so, lets face it. no fallout so far was perfect. they all where fun tho.at least, with fallout 4, the broken parts (imo the horrible building ui) is almost completely optional. and some even seem to enjoy that.
aaaanyway. most of us proably had enough of this discussion in 2008 when fallout 3 was released....
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 16, 2015, 05:49:51 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 16, 2015, 05:50:31 pm
aaaanyway. most of us proably had enough of this discussion in 2008 when fallout 3 was released....
Agreed. I only posted that because I'm pretty sure I only mentioned all the things I liked up until now.
And I feel a lack of screenshots in this thread. I'm interested on what you guys are building.
Since I'm totally focused on making settlements 'functional', I haven't really built anything nice yet.
I usually wait until I get some resources, then I go around estabilishing supply links, plopping 16 beds, 16 mutfruits, 6 water pumps, some shops and scavanging stations, rocket, laser and heavy turrets.
Sometimes I just throw beds anywhere until I feel like building a house. But this guarantees I'll almost never have to go back to defend something. If that happens, I just plop moar turrets.
So my stuff is not screenshot material. :P
But. MFW people say Fallout 4 is bad:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
What I do with haters:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
E: Does this look..familiar..to you?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Can't run; Can't hide
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Fuck you too, Beth (it isn't shown on local map)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I seriously knew they would do this again, and I seriously wanted to find it!
Spoiler: Teddy Love minor easter egg spoiler? (click to show/hide)
Post by: Graknorke on November 16, 2015, 05:51:36 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 16, 2015, 06:12:01 pm
I can't write a proper thing because... I'm too busy playing Fallout 4... But.
As someone who really enjoyed Fallout 2 and Tactics, and 3, and enjoyed NV but felt like it was straying from the series a little (though it was lore-tastic!)
I'm having a great time with Fallout 4. Not far yet, but everything feels great. Maybe I just love scavenging, and it's scratching that itch more generously than the previous games did. But the style feels... pretty good. I'm happy with this.
Post by: motorbitch on November 16, 2015, 06:35:08 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: miauw62 on November 16, 2015, 06:37:32 pm
Post by: Dostoevsky on November 16, 2015, 06:56:40 pm
I'm okay with having to run from normal enemies, but when an almost-dead enemy inexplicably turns into a fresh enemy it pisses me off.
I don't suppose there's any way to disable them, yet? Otherwise the game is great fun.
Personally I like 'em (or mainly the diablo-ish loot nestled within them), but thankfully there's already a mod that caters to the both of us:
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/218/?
Just download the "No More Legendary Spawning" version. It suggests making your .ini read-only, but I haven't and it hasn't suddenly decided to stop loading the mod yet.
Post by: BigD145 on November 16, 2015, 07:09:14 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 16, 2015, 07:12:44 pm
My local map is just black. I tried looking it up but the internet only yields pip boy app local map problems. That too is broken.
Everywhere, or just in a single location?
I've noticed that if you stand in some areas like ramps, elevators or certain spots, the map goes black. Then if you move a bit it works again.
Pretty annoying. But if it just doesn't work at all, then that's bad.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 16, 2015, 07:17:31 pm
-snip-FUCK THAT FUCKING BUNKER I SEARCHED FOR IT FOR TWO HOURS
Played a bit yesterday, and I have to say the most annoying feature I've encountered so far would have to be the "legendary" enemies.Not disable, no (though mods will undoubtedly change that), but playing on babby modo difficulty will reduce how often they spawn.
Who thought that was a good idea? Is this a first-person RPG/shooter or some stupid top-down arcade shoot-'em-up?
Plenty of ways to make tough minibosses without having this nonsensical 'mutating' business. They could at least have enemies, I don't know, duck back and use a stimpack or something instead of just suddenly healing to annoy the player.
I'm okay with having to run from normal enemies, but when an almost-dead enemy inexplicably turns into a fresh enemy it pisses me off.
I don't suppose there's any way to disable them, yet? Otherwise the game is great fun.
I don't mind them on a mechanical level (though the implementation is rather shoddy); just shoot them until they heal, then unload two or three crits on their faces. I definitely don't want to get rid of them myself, not when I'm getting things like two-bullet-for-one combat rifles.
Post by: Gabeux on November 16, 2015, 07:28:10 pm
About those two shot rifles, they really shoot two and consume one!? Damn. I just have a plasma one stored somewhere (and I don't use plasma guns since I can't ever find ammo, and I think they are too expensive for the damage)!
I'm so dumb ahahaha
E: They probably make great companion weapons. Because companions CAN'T AIM FOR SHIT! ::)
Post by: Dostoevsky on November 16, 2015, 07:32:57 pm
About those two shot rifles, they really shoot two and consume one!? Damn. I just have a plasma one stored somewhere (and I don't use plasma guns since I can't ever find ammo, and I think they are too expensive for the damage)!
I'm so dumb ahahaha
They do indeed, but they also seem to have twice the kick. I picked up the that two-for-one combat rifle available in that one shop, and noticed that in full auto the kick is noticeably worse than the same setup on a normal combat rifle. Of course, given that the gun tears just about anything to pieces in a burst of cheap .45 ammo I can't complain too much.
Post by: BigD145 on November 16, 2015, 07:34:17 pm
My local map is just black. I tried looking it up but the internet only yields pip boy app local map problems. That too is broken.
Everywhere, or just in a single location?
I've noticed that if you stand in some areas like ramps, elevators or certain spots, the map goes black. Then if you move a bit it works again.
Pretty annoying. But if it just doesn't work at all, then that's bad.
Out in the world. In the middle of rooms. Everywhere, at least until I gave up.
Post by: Neonivek on November 16, 2015, 07:41:46 pm
The Scavenging is probably the feature they should have thought through quite a bit more. As it causes what I call "Letting players have less fun playing the game" or something like that, because you need EVERYTHING you can get your hands on.
Not to mention there are some features that GOOD LUCK knowing how to use them. Some which are absolutely vital information that show up only in tool tips.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 16, 2015, 08:00:34 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 16, 2015, 08:03:30 pm
Eh, there's an audience. It hits the Minecraft/Terraria crowd who want an endless cycle of harvesting and building, and it hits the DayZ and cRPG crowds who want an endless cycle of killing and looting.
I don't quite think it appeals to that audience.
I needs one who can overlook the limitations and outright problems with the game. The cRPG crowds will be offput by the sheer amount of looting they have to do. While the Minecraft crowd will be offput by how wretched the town building is.
There is this weird thing when I am playing the game. I know the game is good, but for some reason it just isn't as fun as the two previous games.
Post by: motorbitch on November 16, 2015, 08:36:14 pm
recently, one of my 2 people settlements complained again - buhuu, there are raiders just a few miles from here and they BREATH! you go fix plz!!, with took me back to that location.
and wow, that scenery is impressive! totally worth it. so... if some asshole asks you to fix his pump for little pay and even less gratitude, do eet!
regarding legendaries:
they are indeed tied to the difficulty, as the loading tips say sometimes. they drop also great gear, so i like them.
btw, if you hit them hard enough with the first hit, they just die. like, i have lvl 4 rifle man + lvl 4 ninaj, and when i hit them in the head with a fully charged railgun sneak attack, they do not mutate ;)
regarding twoshot rifles:
im fairly sure they dont consume two bullets per shot. i also think they dont produce two decals or shoot two tracers. they just do double dmg. overseers guardian is my best friend <3
sadly, i havnt found a double shot assault shotgun yet.but just imagine... a doubleshot railgun o.O
sad, my legendaries seem to love to drop leather armour. its very rare they actually bring me something i have use for, tho i have two leg armor thingies with +10 movement speed so thats cool
regarding scavingin:
the pain got vastly reduced for me when i learned that i can use the E key as substitute for enter.
i also dont like the base building meta game, if i wanted that i would play sims (with actually has an unbroken house building interface).
anyway, all you need are waterpumps, beds, some fud and heavy machine gun turrets. there is no real point in building fences as raiders just spawn from thin air (and proably within your walls anyway).
settlers dont seem to care if there is actually a roof over their bed, if htey have a chair to sit on, or if there is any entertainment around. untill you have local leader, and you are after the tiny income shops can produce, there also is no benefit from having many settlers.
so.... if you dont like the base building stuff, you can shorten that part with very little efford.
ah, one tip: its a realy good idea to have water purification and a generator to power it. it actually will produce purified water directly into your workbench stockpile, and that stuff is not only free healing, it also sells quite well.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 16, 2015, 08:44:13 pm
>cRPG players
>too much looting
Post by: Wiles on November 16, 2015, 09:05:13 pm
Post by: motorbitch on November 16, 2015, 09:10:10 pm
the maximum seems to be 16 anyway. so... 9 already is quite large.
Post by: nenjin on November 16, 2015, 09:10:26 pm
How do you make your settlement more attractive for settlers? I only have 9 people in Sanctuary and I'm not sure how to get more. Happiness is at 78%. I have a beacon active, more food, water and beds than I need but nobody seems to want to settle there.
Blackjack and Hookers.
Post by: Neonivek on November 16, 2015, 09:10:29 pm
How do you make your settlement more attractive for settlers? I only have 9 people in Sanctuary and I'm not sure how to get more. Happiness is at 78%. I have a beacon active, more food, water and beds than I need but nobody seems to want to settle there.
Oddly enough Power is a need they have.
As for "No one wants to settle here" the change is actually pretty low. You are meant to pool settlers from many settlements then just having one great settlement.
Post by: Teneb on November 16, 2015, 09:13:52 pm
excuse this, butYeah, there is no such thing as too much loot in cRPGs. Hell, games like Diablo and Borderlands are built around the whole concept of killing stuff for loot.
>cRPG players
>too much looting
Post by: Gabeux on November 16, 2015, 09:19:51 pm
You can also just put beacons on all your available settlements (link them for easier building) without providing full needs (if you're low os resources, as we all are most of the time :P) then keep checking and sending them to the desired settlement.
After you fill up your main one, there's usually no need to send people around, since at that point you probably will have 5+ other ones and I doubt anyone will be interested in that much fast-travelling and baby-sitting for every single settlement.
But to directly answer the question, it simply can be really slow sometimes. Power and shops helps, some people say decorations do too.. I didn't see that much difference regarding decorations and power, though - but it seemed to help me get past 75%.
Building sheltered beds provide more happiness than non-sheltered ones. Higher than necessary defence scores also help.
However, even if I did all that, my happiness never got past 81. Did anyone manage to get more than that?
EDIT: I just read that higher Charisma means more settlers. Each point of charisma equals +1 settler, which probably means that higher attainable happiness levels.
I can't play for a few days, but I'll try that out and up my charisma at my next level up to see if that holds.
The count thing seems true, though. I have 6 charisma and my cap is at 16.
Post by: Sirian on November 16, 2015, 11:19:45 pm
ah, one tip: its a realy good idea to have water purification and a generator to power it. it actually will produce purified water directly into your workbench stockpile, and that stuff is not only free healing, it also sells quite well.
Actually, any cheap water pump will produce purified water in your workshop. I think that the production needs to be above your population count.
But I don't really recommend using it for healing, considering the weight. Also you can heal by working the water pump (or just sleep 1 hour).
On the topic of production, I found that if you have a brahmin (like in the abernathy farm), it will produce fertilizer. I'm not sure if fertilizer has any use besides making jet, but hey, jet is good money. I'm not sure how to get brahmins though.
Edit : oh and I was quite happy that there was no level scaling, until I noticed that traders will upgrade what wares they are selling as you level up :/ (at least the traveling ones, one of them sells armor, when I met him first it was mostly leather and a few metal parts, but now he's selling combat armor)
Post by: motorbitch on November 16, 2015, 11:28:49 pm
water for healing isnt bad i think. i usually take some 20 with me if i go out, thats usually enough and if not, i take some stimpacks.
water is free after all (i always got more junk then i can sell anyway).
i just learned that i missunderstood size completely.
untill now, i just scrapped all the shit to fill my raw materials. i thought smaller size was better, and that a full size would indicate that my settlement was just littered.
turns out, the stuff thats green with active building interface increases size, no matter where its placed inside the settlement. yellow stuff does not.
im very sure now that more size will produce more happyness, im not sure if more size will also increase settler limit. i would so some science on this to test it, but i cant. im to fuckin lazy and i dont care enough.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 16, 2015, 11:36:01 pm
Post by: Astral on November 16, 2015, 11:46:47 pm
On the topic of production, I found that if you have a brahmin (like in the abernathy farm), it will produce fertilizer. I'm not sure if fertilizer has any use besides making jet, but hey, jet is good money. I'm not sure how to get brahmins though.Brahmin can be "built" by crafting Brahmin troughs. They won't appear immediately, and I'm not sure of the limits, but I had one sitting around after I made a few.
Post by: Sirian on November 17, 2015, 12:58:08 am
On the topic of production, I found that if you have a brahmin (like in the abernathy farm), it will produce fertilizer. I'm not sure if fertilizer has any use besides making jet, but hey, jet is good money. I'm not sure how to get brahmins though.Brahmin can be "built" by crafting Brahmin troughs. They won't appear immediately, and I'm not sure of the limits, but I had one sitting around after I made a few.
Ah, good to know, I had tried building the trough but since I couldn't assign someone to it, and waiting a bit + fast travel didn't make a brahmin appear, I thought you needed to buy the brahmin somewhere further down the road.
I don't remember if I've seen this tip in here or not, so just in case : if you can shoot the fusion core from an enemy in Power Armor with the VATS (it doesn't seem to work outside of VATS), there is a good chance he'll eject the core (take cover 'cause it'll explode), and leave the armor. On my first try, I unloaded a few bullets in it, and I think that made it explode too fast because the raider didn't leave the armor. On my second try, a single 10mm bullet did the trick. Just stay clear of the area for a bit, because it'll give off some radiation for a minute (like when cars explode).
Anyways, that seems like a good way to get more power armor frames; although to be honest, there is no need for more than one frame, maybe two if you're using companions, but hey, many people like collecting power armor, and I'm no exception. ^^
Edit : Ok so after a bit of testing and research, it seems that you can also pickpocket the fusion core for the same result (I couldn't do it myself, my sneaking wasn't good enough). The person will exit the armor only if they survive the core explosion. And the armor will be considered stolen. The option to enter it reads "Steal" instead of "Enter". Since I don't like that, I think I won't bother getting frames this way.
Post by: motorbitch on November 17, 2015, 01:15:15 am
it could be related to the fact that i only have 6 gigs of ram, not 8 as the minimum requirements want. however, the taskmanager never showed more then 70% memory load, so i somehow doubt thats the reason. also, i just kept lowering the details till the game looked like a geezer ass, and it still lagged like hell.
because that realy bothered me, so i did some googlefu and was able to completely fix it for me. i now can run the game with almost maxed settings and mostly staedy 60fps, and even my fps drops a few frames, the game stays smooth.
anything i did should apply to different cards as well, and from what i read during my research, the problems i had show even with much more system / Vram.
description of the problem as percived by me:
- microstuttering and laggy gameplay as soon as the fps droped even slightly below vsync, resulting in unsatisfying gameplay even with 50+ fps
- after loading a level, it took a long time (30s or even longer) untill all textures where loaded in full resolution, while the game reasembled the look of doom III
steps taken by me to fix these problems:
turn off vsync:
open documents/my games/fallout4/fallout4prefs.ini
iPresentInterval=1 to iPresentInterval=1
now, fps has to be limeted to 60 fps or the game will glitch out. use your favorite tweak utility to do that, amd drivers also offer a setting within the catalyst suite directly (performance - framerate, game has to be in fullscreen or it wont work)
if you cant be bothered by this, you can leave vsync on. it still will produce some microstuttering sometimes due to the limitations of the engine, but the next steps are much more important anynow, and will prevent most frame drops in the first place.
tweak the config files to allow the game to use more memory as texture chache and cach a wider game areal
fallout4.ini: delete everything but the first line beteween [General] and [ScreenSplatter] and replace it with:
uGridsToLoad=7 /[5/36, 7/64 , 9/100, 11/144]
uExterior Cell Buffer=64
bDisableAllGore=0
bPreemptivelyUnloadCells=0
iPreloadSizeLimit=2097152000
bUseHardDriveCache=0
bUseBackgroundFileLoader=1
bSelectivePurgeUnusedOnFastTravel=1
-this will allow the engine to use a bigger memory cache, and also will allow the engine to cach a wider area. this should remove most frame rate drops that are caused by texture streaming.
reduce shadow resolution to free some Vram:
fallout4prefs.ini find:
iShadowMapResolution=2048 change to: iShadowMapResolution=512
fallout4.ini find:
iShadowMapResolutionPrimary=2048 and change to iShadowMapResolutionPrimary=512
-to my taste, this also looks better. sharp shadows of small distant objects like leaves and brances dont look real.
hope that helps.
important note:
results may vary. back up your files. dont just blindly fuck with the settings in fallout.ini under [General]. most settings there are related to each other, and changing one line often makes it necessary to change other lines, too. if you want to use different settings i suggest you do your own googlefu first. (should not be to hard to find)
Post by: Yoink on November 17, 2015, 06:21:03 am
Maybe it wouldn't be so noticeable if my current character was some sneaky long-range sniper type... but it's hard being a hamfisted brawler when just about everything you come up against gibs you in a couple of hits. :P I reckon my next session will involve a lot of getting the fuck outta dodge.
Fuck mirelurks, ghouls were bad enough- I need a vacation.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on November 17, 2015, 06:22:48 am
Well then, the difficulty certainly ramps up if you stray too far off the beaten path.You could always try to buff toughness and that refractor perk, then see if you can get that one skill that gives you better defence when running.
Maybe it wouldn't be so noticeable if my current character was some sneaky long-range sniper type... but it's hard being a hamfisted brawler when just about everything you come up against gibs you in a couple of hits. :P I reckon my next session will involve a lot of getting the fuck outta dodge.
Fuck mirelurks, ghouls were bad enough- I need a vacation.
Post by: Yoink on November 17, 2015, 06:33:18 am
It's kind of getting tiresome being low on chems, low on ammo and loaded up with piles of heavy-arse loot, though. I'll come back to this area sometime, probably soon.
Post by: Stuebi on November 17, 2015, 06:38:08 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm probably gonna finish up some more stuff around the world, cheat around a little bit for sh*ts and giggles and then do a new run on a harder Difficulty. Probably as a sneaky Cannibal instead of a walking tank.
Post by: Neonivek on November 17, 2015, 09:00:23 am
Quote
Okay, I just finished the Main Story. And boy, what a dissapointment.
It was made by Bethesda... You need to set your standards quite low when it comes to main storylines.
I am trying to think of an exception (well in modern times... I didn't play Daggerfall or Morrowind so I am not going to look back that far) and frankly... if I discount DLC, I can't think of any game that was different in this respect. Including DLC then New Vegas was passable.
Post by: BigD145 on November 17, 2015, 09:45:30 am
Well then, the difficulty certainly ramps up if you stray too far off the beaten path.
Maybe it wouldn't be so noticeable if my current character was some sneaky long-range sniper type... but it's hard being a hamfisted brawler when just about everything you come up against gibs you in a couple of hits. :P I reckon my next session will involve a lot of getting the fuck outta dodge.
Fuck mirelurks, ghouls were bad enough- I need a vacation.
Even for a sniper, trying to take down an Alpha Deathclaw at around level 15 involves a ton of patience and ammo. It also requires a high place it can't get to.
Post by: Neonivek on November 17, 2015, 09:46:44 am
I made the unfortunate choice of going for "everything I need NOW!!!" versus going for survivability off the bat.
Post by: Yoink on November 17, 2015, 10:08:05 am
Not that they seem to be much help, from what I've seen, but they're nice to have around and interact with.
Adsfasdsdaf. I hope Mr. S will forgive me for postponing our gruesome adventures to have some gruesome adventures with another gruesome adventurer...
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 17, 2015, 10:08:48 am
Post by: Neonivek on November 17, 2015, 10:10:39 am
New Vegas would have been much better if Obsidian had enough time to finish the post game content, a la Broken Steel. But they didn't. :'(
They did push a lot of the unfinished content onto DLC. With one DLC that has the most interesting character in the entire game... but is part of the worst DLC in the entire game.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 17, 2015, 10:12:07 am
(:P)
Post by: MaximumZero on November 17, 2015, 10:12:24 am
Aw man, this one-companion limit is a pain in the arse... I want them all to come with me!Not to fear, fair adventurer! As soon as the GECK is available, this is the first thing I'm going to work on. Also inserting a hyper aggressive munchkin who sounds like a radio DJ.
Not that they seem to be much help, from what I've seen, but they're nice to have around and interact with.
Adsfasdsdaf. I hope Mr. S will forgive me for postponing our gruesome adventures to have some gruesome adventures with another gruesome adventurer...
Post by: Rolan7 on November 17, 2015, 10:40:40 am
Well then, the difficulty certainly ramps up if you stray too far off the beaten path.Yeah, I got frustrated last night because I got a mission to investigate a place which, it turned out, was full of hostile super mutants. First ones I saw, and at least one of them was super accurate with his fat man.
Maybe it wouldn't be so noticeable if my current character was some sneaky long-range sniper type... but it's hard being a hamfisted brawler when just about everything you come up against gibs you in a couple of hits. :P I reckon my next session will involve a lot of getting the fuck outta dodge.
Fuck mirelurks, ghouls were bad enough- I need a vacation.
Since I'm only level 12 or so, and mainly specced for talking and infiltrating, I think I'm going to consider this a wake-up call and start building up the settlements I've already liberated. It was frustrating but it's actually a cool thing, makes sense that my non-powerhouse wouldn't be able to casually clear such a camp yet. (If I really wanted to I could come back in power armor with my own fat man, and properly modded weapons, and maybe summon allies. Later, though... They'd get slaughtered now)
Post by: Neonivek on November 17, 2015, 10:42:57 am
Quote
Well then, the difficulty certainly ramps up if you stray too far off the beaten path.
Actually the game gives you a nice hint.
Difficulty is proportional to how far south you are.
Post by: BigD145 on November 17, 2015, 11:05:47 am
QuoteWell then, the difficulty certainly ramps up if you stray too far off the beaten path.
Actually the game gives you a nice hint.
Difficulty is proportional to how far south you are.
East is also quite dangerous.
Post by: Neonivek on November 17, 2015, 11:12:49 am
QuoteWell then, the difficulty certainly ramps up if you stray too far off the beaten path.
Actually the game gives you a nice hint.
Difficulty is proportional to how far south you are.
East is also quite dangerous.
It has more to do with how the "safe pockets" work. It is like the difficulty radiates out from the vault...
Post by: JimboM12 on November 17, 2015, 11:30:44 am
Post by: BigD145 on November 17, 2015, 11:37:12 am
QuoteWell then, the difficulty certainly ramps up if you stray too far off the beaten path.
Actually the game gives you a nice hint.
Difficulty is proportional to how far south you are.
East is also quite dangerous.
It has more to do with how the "safe pockets" work. It is like the difficulty radiates out from the vault...
East has some safe and/or easy pockets and corridors of its own.
Post by: Yoink on November 17, 2015, 11:44:42 am
Anyway, I am loving this game.
I had my doubts about the main story, but the last mission I did restored a lot of my faith in it. Was actually really dang fun.
Sounds good.Aw man, this one-companion limit is a pain in the arse... I want them all to come with me!Not to fear, fair adventurer! As soon as the GECK is available, this is the first thing I'm going to work on. Also inserting a hyper aggressive munchkin who sounds like a radio DJ.
Not that they seem to be much help, from what I've seen, but they're nice to have around and interact with.
Adsfasdsdaf. I hope Mr. S will forgive me for postponing our gruesome adventures to have some gruesome adventures with another gruesome adventurer...
I guess one problem would be the lack of inter-companion dialogue... perhaps that was part of the reason you can't have more than one as it is.
Post by: BigD145 on November 17, 2015, 11:59:20 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Yoink on November 17, 2015, 12:06:55 pm
Was fun, though. I'm not complaining about it being tough!
Post by: BigD145 on November 17, 2015, 12:36:08 pm
Post by: Aseaheru on November 17, 2015, 12:39:46 pm
Post by: Culise on November 17, 2015, 12:47:33 pm
Then again, my original cunning plan for getting to Diamond City was to take the south road and go along the turnpike. So many deaths... ^_^
Post by: Aseaheru on November 17, 2015, 12:49:34 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 17, 2015, 12:57:45 pm
I died a few times while clearing out raiders, but travel itself didn't seem so rough. Raiders in the ruins opened fire from a long distance, which gives me time to eat food and leave or engage. Feral ghouls were more of a concern, but they're relatively fragile when I can actually hit them (Dogmeat helps a lot).
Then again, none of the raiders had fat men yet. Just a billion molotovs. (And a couple of suits of power armor, but they were slow and easy to pick off with distance)
I actually checked my map after clearing an area south of the bridges and realized "woah, Diamond City is like right there". Too bad I have loot to return, and things to build, since I am having difficulty actually killing the bandit scum (instead of avoiding).
Post by: BigD145 on November 17, 2015, 01:06:27 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 17, 2015, 01:12:33 pm
And if some certain faction decides to land one of their vertibirds to scout the area, they will aggro the whole freaking region.
If you are near them, you're getting the whole aggro too. That means Ferals, Raiders, Super Mutants, Gunners and - if you're lucky, Mirelurks.
All at the same time.
But going too much to the East at the beggining can be pretty challenging and cost you a lot of ammo.
Post by: BigD145 on November 17, 2015, 01:16:56 pm
Post by: miauw62 on November 17, 2015, 01:28:38 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 17, 2015, 01:31:53 pm
I'd move him to Red Rocket and set the link.
Post by: Neonivek on November 17, 2015, 02:50:24 pm
Post by: MaximumZero on November 17, 2015, 02:51:42 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 17, 2015, 03:04:13 pm
It's really hell on earth assigning people to stuff. I'd just make a little screen so that you could assign a job to someone.
Scavenger/Farmer/Trader/etc. So they'd either pick any available job by themselves based on priority, or get a station based on their job.
And also keep manual assignment.
Fallout Shelter had that screen with all settlers and their jobs. Something like that would be great, especially if you could assign jobs directly on the screen.
Given that every video I watched mentioned this, they ought to do something about it eventually.
Post by: Aseaheru on November 17, 2015, 03:08:08 pm
Although, frankly, I would be glad if they just made more things work with hills, and made &@%$&!$^ junk fences &@$#ing work instead of being for aggravating to use.
Post by: Neonivek on November 17, 2015, 03:09:28 pm
I could take ALL the annoying "set someone to do this job" if they at least fulfilled the jobs I set...
Post by: Aseaheru on November 17, 2015, 03:10:43 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 17, 2015, 03:12:51 pm
New settlers, atleast that I have found, take jobs that are open when they join...
Sometimes.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on November 17, 2015, 03:16:54 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 17, 2015, 03:19:48 pm
About beds, I never had to assign a settler to a bed. And I have many full settlements, so how that bug works?
I also never had someone not-do their jobs either. Scavangers can roam around the base but they are still, theoretically, assigned and producing. Farmers make food even if you trap them in walls afaik. Guards assign themselves to multiple posts (after you assign them to a post) and spend some time on each (I never had more than 1 guard, though).
And yeah, building on uneven terrain is pretty annoying. I adopted a Wasteland-Construction mindset so I just stick junk fences on gaps, and when I'm forced to build uneven walls i'll try to plop that foundation floor to pretend its even. That's the only way I found to build fast without getting too annoyed, but it doesn't look nice. ::)
Post by: Lightningfalcon on November 17, 2015, 03:34:34 pm
Also, new settlers will automatically start farming, If there aren't any available farming jobs, they will do scavenging. Not sure how effective scavenging is.
Post by: Ultimuh on November 17, 2015, 03:34:47 pm
Apparently you do not drown when using power armor. But you cannot swim either.
But walking under water is kind of interesting.
As far as I know though.. Bethesda have not done much about under water stuff.
A shame really.
Post by: Lightningfalcon on November 17, 2015, 03:36:51 pm
A small probably non-spoilery thing I discovered not long ago.I think you can eventually drown.
Apparently you do not drown when using power armor. But you cannot swim either.
But walking under water is kind of interesting.
As far as I know though.. Bethesda have not done much about under water stuff.
Post by: Ultimuh on November 17, 2015, 03:39:38 pm
A small probably non-spoilery thing I discovered not long ago.
Apparently you do not drown when using power armor. But you cannot swim either.
But walking under water is kind of interesting.
As far as I know though.. Bethesda have not done much about under water stuff.
I think you can eventually drown.
There didn't seem to be no indicator of drowning when I wore a power armor.
Of course, the lake was small so I did not test this extensively to see if drowning was possible.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 17, 2015, 03:42:44 pm
A small probably non-spoilery thing I discovered not long ago.Being able to swim is useful in
Apparently you do not drown when using power armor. But you cannot swim either.
But walking under water is kind of interesting.
As far as I know though.. Bethesda have not done much about under water stuff.
A shame really.
Spoiler: Not campaign, just a location, but still kind of spoilery (click to show/hide)
Post by: Aseaheru on November 17, 2015, 03:45:05 pm
Came with a season pass too.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 17, 2015, 03:51:20 pm
Post by: Ultimuh on November 17, 2015, 03:55:47 pm
Technically you shouldn't drown so much as suffocate. If you don't drown in the armor this means it's airtight, and unless the producers unanimously decided to develop indefinitely-operating oxygen recyclers for all the suits you will run out of air sometime.
Well I am not talking about a real-life power armor.
Just the in-game kind which I did not seem to experience any drowning or indicators that I might run out of air.
Post by: miauw62 on November 17, 2015, 04:02:53 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 17, 2015, 04:08:16 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 17, 2015, 04:09:07 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 17, 2015, 04:17:12 pm
A small probably non-spoilery thing I discovered not long ago.
Apparently you do not drown when using power armor. But you cannot swim either.
But walking under water is kind of interesting.
As far as I know though.. Bethesda have not done much about under water stuff.
A shame really.
I noticed that. I don't know if the jet pack works under water though, I probably tested it and forgot the results. ::)
Did anyone play with the jetpack? It eats through the fusion core energy much like sprinting. After I get 10 charisma I'll focus all my level ups on the perk that, on last rank, doubles the duration of fusion cores.
I had to battle three dudes with power armors plus two crazy melee dudes and someone on a tower with a fat man AND a rocket launcher. So sprinting around and jumping to/from buildings was fucking amazing. They'd take cover behind a building, I'd just impact land on their heads and shotgun whatever was left.
End of the battle both my legs were destroyed and arms were on red.
Problem is all the great fun Power Armor perks is dozens of level-ups away from me. I focused completely on crafting, settlement, and hacking/lockpicking ::)
On another note, give a certain 'medieval' costume from a comic character, and a certain 'flaming sword' to a follower, and watch as you can't figure out if you're playing Fallout 4 or Elder Scrolls VI.
PS: About water stuff, I had heard Beth DID make some underwater stuff - that's why the Aquaboy perk is a thing.
However, I found no suggestions or evidence of that in-game. Didn't explore much under water, though.
Post by: miauw62 on November 17, 2015, 04:21:05 pm
Post by: Lightningfalcon on November 17, 2015, 04:28:36 pm
You could also have different types of artillery. You could have cluster rounds, which would probably work similar to the MIRV. Guided rounds, which would take down specific enemies. Maybe have different rounds that do less overall damage, but do extra damage to limbs. Pulse and plasma rounds, for more damage to stuff like robots.
Since different objects can create different resources (Like water purifiers creating water), it might be possible to create ammo stockpiles that produce a small amount of a specific smoke grenade at different times, so you can't create pulse artillery without having the high science skill needed to fabricate those rounds.
Post by: Putnam on November 17, 2015, 05:22:24 pm
New Vegas would have been much better if Obsidian had enough time to finish the post game content, a la Broken Steel. But they didn't. :'(
They never were going to do post-game content AFAIK. The game actually has a story that makes sense, so an event that changes the face of the world would actually have to change stuff.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 17, 2015, 05:23:46 pm
Post by: Niveras on November 17, 2015, 05:40:31 pm
PS: About water stuff, I had heard Beth DID make some underwater stuff - that's why the Aquaboy perk is a thing.
However, I found no suggestions or evidence of that in-game. Didn't explore much under water, though.
There is a flooded quarry somewhere that - based on how long it took a submerged lift to rise to its top/surface port - is pretty damn deep. There is a simple quest to re-activate a pump when I first found it, but completing the quest didn't empty the quarry. I haven't been back there to see if it has emptied over time, but based on my experience with the submerged areas in the water treatment plant, I'm somewhat doubtful.
Post by: BlackFlyme on November 17, 2015, 05:47:20 pm
PS: About water stuff, I had heard Beth DID make some underwater stuff - that's why the Aquaboy perk is a thing.
However, I found no suggestions or evidence of that in-game. Didn't explore much under water, though.
There is a flooded quarry somewhere that - based on how long it took a submerged lift to rise to its top/surface port - is pretty damn deep. There is a simple quest to re-activate a pump when I first found it, but completing the quest didn't empty the quarry. I haven't been back there to see if it has emptied over time, but based on my experience with the submerged areas in the water treatment plant, I'm somewhat doubtful.
If it is the same quarry I've been to, then it does empty eventually.
There's also another quarry I found with a minor underwater section, with a unique weapon at the end.
Also learned the hard way the power armour is not buoyant. Useful perk if you spend a lot of time in armour and don't want to die due to a misstep.
Post by: jocan2003 on November 17, 2015, 05:54:56 pm
As long as you never need to use two hands for it, sure. You'd look right silly when calling someone with it, as well.bluetooth headset.
Post by: majikero on November 17, 2015, 06:04:26 pm
As long as you never need to use two hands for it, sure. You'd look right silly when calling someone with it, as well.Wait so you don't put it on speaker and talk to it like those old cartoon wrist communicator?
Post by: Sartain on November 17, 2015, 06:10:55 pm
A small probably non-spoilery thing I discovered not long ago.
Apparently you do not drown when using power armor. But you cannot swim either.
But walking under water is kind of interesting.
As far as I know though.. Bethesda have not done much about under water stuff.
A shame really.
PS: About water stuff, I had heard Beth DID make some underwater stuff - that's why the Aquaboy perk is a thing.
However, I found no suggestions or evidence of that in-game. Didn't explore much under water, though.
Well there's a couple of random things you can find underwater, and at least 1 quest that requires a bit of diving. But generally, Aquaboy is more of a low-tier quality of life choice of perk since it's nice not to get radiated by water and not having to worry about breath. Mostly, it'll allow you to cross larger gaps of water without getting radiated like a mo-fo so you don't need bridges so much after getting it.
Technically you shouldn't drown so much as suffocate. If you don't drown in the armor this means it's airtight, and unless the producers unanimously decided to develop indefinitely-operating oxygen recyclers for all the suits you will run out of air sometime.
Well I am not talking about a real-life power armor.
Just the in-game kind which I did not seem to experience any drowning or indicators that I might run out of air.
Power Armor has an air supply of around 20 minutes. I tested it when the first raider power armor I encountered fell into the water and got stuck. Took him around 20 minutes to start losing health.
Post by: Ultimuh on November 17, 2015, 06:30:38 pm
Post by: Sartain on November 17, 2015, 07:07:20 pm
20 minutes huh? Well that seems like plenty of time to explore a bit and return to the surface.
Yeah but you're horribly slow and so far I've found nothing except random scrap down there. If you really want to explore water, Aquaboy is a lot more useful than Power Armor.
Post by: Gabeux on November 17, 2015, 07:10:02 pm
And did anyone notice how easily companion's on PA's lose their parts? They probably take more damage due to their level not being the same as the player or something.
It's better to just put them on a clear frame so they can carry more and don't instadie on their constant falling off bridges, highways and rooftops, and don't cost you aluminum, circuitry and steel every time you go back to dump your loot. (Problem with that is if you find a new frame you can't put them in and bring back to base quickly, so when exploring I leave them with no PA)
I played 80% of the time without PA, only started using on level 40+ or something. But damn, they make things go much smoother.
And of course, you always look badass, and when someone threatens you, you can't help but lel.
Post by: AlleeCat on November 17, 2015, 07:34:25 pm
Anyway, as for reviews, I'd say the story is better than most Bethesda games, but still not great.
Spoiler: Story spoilers (click to show/hide)
I wish there were a few more options when it comes to building settlements, but that's my only complaint there. Another thing I miss from NV was being able to craft ammo. With the new crafting system, you'd think I'd be able to turn all of these components into bullets. Guess I'm gonna have to get a mod for that.
The map isn't as big as I thought it was going to be, but that's alright. It's chock-full of locations and extra goodies, so it makes up for it. The perk system was one thing I thought I was going to hate, but ended up growing on me. It kind of discourages min-maxing and puts emphasis on things like Charisma and Luck, which usually fell by the wayside in earlier games. There are a few bugs, such as sending companions to a certain settlement putting them in an inaccessible room, or children still counting as hostiles even though you can't kill them.
I overall enjoyed the game a lot, and am still enjoying it on a second playthrough. I'm definitely going to be modding it heavily later, and I'm guessing so will a lot of people, but I also look forward to seeing what they'll do with official DLC. Doing something else with the Memory Den might be fun, or putting more reasons to visit the Glowing Sea. In summary, I still love Fallout, I still love Bethesda, and I look forward to the future of the franchise.
I played 80% of the time without PA, only started using on level 40+ or something. But damn, they make things go much smoother.My character is level 38, and I haven't been without power armor since level 25. I look like a lady Space Marine, too, with the Vault-Tec paint giving me extra Charisma so I can go around telling everyone to shoot their friends instead of me.
And of course, you always look badass, and when someone threatens you, you can't help but lel.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 17, 2015, 07:38:46 pm
Incidentally: Not only do item containers respawn after sufficient time, so do pre-placed items in the world. I've gone back to places I cleared very early on and found the exact same arrangements of items in the exact same places and numbers, which I know I looted the first time around.
Post by: MorleyDev on November 17, 2015, 07:48:10 pm
But I've been playing on Survival Difficulty, which seems to keep the game actually challenging. Early levels you die a lot if not careful without power armour, which you have to use sparingly when needed (Mostly those early 'wipe out massive raider base' Minuteman missions). Pushing level 20 and I can take on Raider's fairly confidently via tactics (Sneaking, Sniping, Grenades and Mine placement, weaken and wean them out before the final quick-rush-psychojet-rifle Coup de grâce), but Super Mutants and the like are still a major risk (Which since apparently they are major-nerfed compared to previous games, is just returning things to what I'd consider 'proper').
As someone who thinks RPG games should be 'Early level is desperate bid to survive the harsh world, High level is GOD OF THIS WORLD', this pleases me :)
Post by: Gabeux on November 17, 2015, 08:12:02 pm
Incidentally: Not only do item containers respawn after sufficient time, so do pre-placed items in the world. I've gone back to places I cleared very early on and found the exact same arrangements of items in the exact same places and numbers, which I know I looted the first time around.
Yep. This should be adjusted, because it looks and feels stupid. This isn't DayZ.
At least, they should make it so after you finish the story (or some major questline), or after some level (60+/70+) it starts to regen, because at that point the game will be mostly a sandbox, open-ended game.
I mean, once I attacked a Gunner camp, left for 2 minutes and went back and everything had regenned. So that's pretty silly.
-
By the way, I want to make a minor spoilery question. There's a place which people speak a weird language (to me), it sounds scandinavian.
Is it swedish? I couldn't find any reason for that. But I was on a hurry so I may have missed something.
Post by: Lightningfalcon on November 17, 2015, 08:16:45 pm
I wish there were a few more options when it comes to building settlements, but that's my only complaint there. Another thing I miss from NV was being able to craft ammo. With the new crafting system, you'd think I'd be able to turn all of these components into bullets. Guess I'm gonna have to get a mod for that.Like this? (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/1018/?)
Post by: AlleeCat on November 17, 2015, 08:21:40 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on November 17, 2015, 08:56:59 pm
The home of the Agility bobblehead, right? Considering the place's name, I'd assume that it's something Nordic/North Germanic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvF2sgjuD4o).Incidentally: Not only do item containers respawn after sufficient time, so do pre-placed items in the world. I've gone back to places I cleared very early on and found the exact same arrangements of items in the exact same places and numbers, which I know I looted the first time around.
Yep. This should be adjusted, because it looks and feels stupid. This isn't DayZ.
At least, they should make it so after you finish the story (or some major questline), or after some level (60+/70+) it starts to regen, because at that point the game will be mostly a sandbox, open-ended game.
I mean, once I attacked a Gunner camp, left for 2 minutes and went back and everything had regenned. So that's pretty silly.
-
By the way, I want to make a minor spoilery question. There's a place which people speak a weird language (to me), it sounds scandinavian.
Is it swedish? I couldn't find any reason for that. But I was on a hurry so I may have missed something.
Post by: Aseaheru on November 17, 2015, 09:18:52 pm
I mean, why cant I build housing for 40 people at the red rocket truck stop if I want to, complete with dining and bathrooms?
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 17, 2015, 09:19:57 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 17, 2015, 09:20:44 pm
Remember that foundation floors are your friend. And can look pretty awesome at certain locations, such as the swampy areas or the coast.
Also, new settlers will automatically start farming, If there aren't any available farming jobs, they will do scavenging. Not sure how effective scavenging is.
Scavaging brings 3 random junk items every day (junk can include water and non-meat food items)
But they don't tell you what they brought.
Post by: Gabeux on November 17, 2015, 09:35:16 pm
God, I hate the friggin size limit.
I mean, why cant I build housing for 40 people at the red rocket truck stop if I want to, complete with dining and bathrooms?
It really is boring. But I read there's some sort of exploit, that you can drop lots of weapons and pick them back up, and the size limit will go down
I haven't tested it though, and it wasn't from a reliable source, but if you got to the limit it might be worth the try.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 17, 2015, 10:39:44 pm
I can honestly only think of two, maybe three places where that would be reasonable:
1. The Castle. Fairly large, very well-protected by geography and architecture, the military heart of the Minutemen.
2. Spectacle Island. Extremely large, extremely well-protected by geography, lots of good farmland.
3. Sanctuary. The first Minutemen settlement; thus, the first to have word to get out. Fairly large, well-protected by geography.
inb4butmuhcompression
Post by: Aseaheru on November 17, 2015, 10:57:31 pm
Im gonna try that exploit, see if it works.
Post by: Astral on November 17, 2015, 11:08:14 pm
Well, finally got the preordered game in. Must say, the pipboy and box do look awesome. Toobad that it only takes iphones and galaxies.
Came with a season pass too.
Did it? Mine came with the little insert that had the advertisement for the season pass, though no code was found inside it.
Post by: Aseaheru on November 17, 2015, 11:16:09 pm
-checks with sibling who has it-
Yep, its just an add. Thats ass.
Post by: Yoink on November 17, 2015, 11:32:31 pm
That was amazing. And explosive...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: MarcAFK on November 18, 2015, 12:01:45 am
Post by: Lightningfalcon on November 18, 2015, 12:37:18 am
Post by: Vendayn on November 18, 2015, 01:29:23 am
There is enough water and rain for green grass :P it doesn't take much rain at all here in california for green grass to start popping up everywhere lol.
But I dunno if that is a custom mod for mod pack or not, cause I don't see any grass mods on Nexus...unless its named something else with no grass in the mod name or something.
(edit: actually its probably this one
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/377/?
much more realistic. If there was barely any rain, I could see the world being brown. But it rains a lot and there is water everywhere...)
Post by: Astral on November 18, 2015, 01:47:04 am
Post by: scriver on November 18, 2015, 02:16:30 am
Incidentally: Not only do item containers respawn after sufficient time, so do pre-placed items in the world. I've gone back to places I cleared very early on and found the exact same arrangements of items in the exact same places and numbers, which I know I looted the first time around.
No wonder the Bostapocalypse wasteland looks so "20 seconds after the war" ;)
I wonder if this still applies to more important items like power armour batteries and the like?
Post by: AoshimaMichio on November 18, 2015, 02:42:10 am
Incidentally: Not only do item containers respawn after sufficient time, so do pre-placed items in the world. I've gone back to places I cleared very early on and found the exact same arrangements of items in the exact same places and numbers, which I know I looted the first time around.
So nukes caused world to selectively loop in time. That's why all the food is still edible after 200 years and why people can survive without farming anything.
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 18, 2015, 03:00:50 am
Post by: Sensei on November 18, 2015, 03:12:55 am
Post by: Yoink on November 18, 2015, 03:39:55 am
Incidentally: Not only do item containers respawn after sufficient time, so do pre-placed items in the world. I've gone back to places I cleared very early on and found the exact same arrangements of items in the exact same places and numbers, which I know I looted the first time around.I'm kinda glad- I was getting tired of that dead dude lying in the middle of the road in his tighty-whities due to me stealing his clothes, since he kept reappearing there if I moved him. This time at least he showed up with some clothes on.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 18, 2015, 04:51:34 am
Incidentally, everyone remember how good Gauss rifles are? Remember how OP it was to be able to mod them to fire twice before reloading in NV? I just finished modding mine out to max. 282 base damage, and it can fire 20 shots before reloading. And on top of that, I managed to find one with the legendary modifier that gives +50% damage against humans. I suppose they partially made up for that by making them run off an ammo type much more expensive than microfusion cells this time around.
On another note, found a suit of X-01 in a less-than obvious spot, but it was relatively poorly defended and easy to access.
Also also, if you haven't done a certain quest for ol' Ironsides yet, do it. It's well worth the hassle, and a much better payoff than the one in NV where you launched the ghouls on those rockets. Better rewards, too.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Digital Hellhound on November 18, 2015, 06:25:32 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
but found it weak, remarkably inaccurate, hella slow and heavy to carry around, too. It doesn't even have an AoE effect like you might expect from the quest.
Also, the Vertibird AI is a good source for unintended hilarity. They either decide to hover in front of SM missile guys or, even better, crash right into the nearest wall, tree or other tall object and immediately explode. Gotta wonder what those things are made of.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 18, 2015, 06:27:11 am
Post by: Digital Hellhound on November 18, 2015, 06:30:07 am
[/url]? :P
Ssh, you saw nothing. I'm as sneaky as a Chameleon Deathclaw.*
*Given that I'm yet to see one, I can only assume they're incredibly sneaky and behind me right now.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 18, 2015, 06:31:49 am
They're in front of you.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 18, 2015, 06:59:31 am
On another note, found a suit of X-01 in a less-than obvious spot, but it was relatively poorly defended and easy to access.I have to know where. Is it a full suit?
Post by: Sirian on November 18, 2015, 07:05:06 am
Incidentally: Not only do item containers respawn after sufficient time, so do pre-placed items in the world. I've gone back to places I cleared very early on and found the exact same arrangements of items in the exact same places and numbers, which I know I looted the first time around.
No wonder the Bostapocalypse wasteland looks so "20 seconds after the war" ;)
I wonder if this still applies to more important items like power armour batteries and the like?
Nah, well yes and no. I went back to the freesom museum and everything had respawned except the fusion core, the power armor, the vertibird minigun and the bobblehead (the magazine had respawned however).
However, I also came back to Cambridge college square after cleaning it and tons of things had respawned, including some power cores in an ammo box.
Considering that I'm finding more and more of the previously rare ammo types as I level up, even in low level areas, I'm guessing this is a type of level-scaling content. Although it could be my rank 2 scrounger perk but I doubt that, scrounger seems more about how much ammo you find.
I also met my first Radscorpion and those bugs with a stinger, in a location where I had previously killed bloatflies and radroaches, so this looks like level scaling too.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 18, 2015, 07:14:09 am
Yes, it is.On another note, found a suit of X-01 in a less-than obvious spot, but it was relatively poorly defended and easy to access.I have to know where. Is it a full suit?
There's two (though they'll only spawn if you've above level 28 IIRC). The one I found is in
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rolan7 on November 18, 2015, 08:26:50 am
Nah, well yes and no. I went back to the freesom museum and everything had respawned except the fusion core, the power armor, the vertibird minigun and the bobblehead (the magazine had respawned however).
Woah, the magazine? Did it further enhance you when you picked it up? I assumed those were finite hardcoded collectibles.
I wonder if it was the same issue...
Post by: scriver on November 18, 2015, 08:28:56 am
Post by: Ultimuh on November 18, 2015, 08:32:47 am
its a gas station
Not any more. I removed the 'gas' part and now it's my personal crafting workshop/shelter/storage depot.
Only followers who cannot equip weapons and/or armor are allowed to stay there.
That way no one steals my stuff. :v
Post by: Flying Dice on November 18, 2015, 08:40:56 am
In all likelihood, yes, given that they're specifically placed rather than random loot. Might not give you another perk even if it's one of the mags with the same generic perk for every issue, given that the perk levels are associated with the issues rather than the magazine in general.Nah, well yes and no. I went back to the freesom museum and everything had respawned except the fusion core, the power armor, the vertibird minigun and the bobblehead (the magazine had respawned however).Woah, the magazine? Did it further enhance you when you picked it up? I assumed those were finite hardcoded collectibles.
I wonder if it was the same issue...
I guess cores you take out of engines probably don't respawn. But those just lying around do?Yep, seems so. Of course they also respawn infinitely in trader stocks, so-ooo...
Post by: Sartain on November 18, 2015, 08:47:13 am
In all likelihood, yes, given that they're specifically placed rather than random loot. Might not give you another perk even if it's one of the mags with the same generic perk for every issue, given that the perk levels are associated with the issues rather than the magazine in general.Nah, well yes and no. I went back to the freesom museum and everything had respawned except the fusion core, the power armor, the vertibird minigun and the bobblehead (the magazine had respawned however).Woah, the magazine? Did it further enhance you when you picked it up? I assumed those were finite hardcoded collectibles.
I wonder if it was the same issue...I guess cores you take out of engines probably don't respawn. But those just lying around do?Yep, seems so. Of course they also respawn infinitely in trader stocks, so-ooo...
Fusion Cores do not really seem to be a problem after a certain point in the game. I was considering taking Nuclear Physicist to make them last longer, never got around to it and ended the game with around 36 fusion cores. I probably bought, at the most, half of those. And I had Power Armor and Gatling which both use the cores as well. So yeah, plenty of cores to go around.
Post by: BFEL on November 18, 2015, 11:06:01 am
I stumbled upon this place after reading this, and I wanted to see if it would spawn for my level 16 character. Spawned a T-51 set instead. I'll reload and come back later I suppose.Yes, it is.On another note, found a suit of X-01 in a less-than obvious spot, but it was relatively poorly defended and easy to access.I have to know where. Is it a full suit?
There's two (though they'll only spawn if you've above level 28 IIRC). The one I found is inSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Putnam on November 18, 2015, 11:49:28 am
Post by: Gabeux on November 18, 2015, 01:26:46 pm
Here's the mod that replaces the paraphrased options in a circle with a numbered list saying the entire sentence you're choosing (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/1235/?)
Hahaha, wow. Didn't take long. I'm sticking with vanilla for a while though.
By the way, I'm not done with the main quest yet (At level 51 :P). But anyone knows if there are consequences for not completing some Minutemen quests?
I did a bunch of them and they seem like useless repeatable quests. After a while, you might get one to acquire a new settlement, but I don't see any patterns.
I thought you had to do the busywork to advance with the questline, but it seems to be tied with your progress on the main quest.
And hey, Jack.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kruniac on November 18, 2015, 01:31:49 pm
Typical Bethesda production - great graphics, decent plot, nice amount of things to do.
Pros: Fallout, settlement building, Fallout, Fallout, shootouts, power armor, Fallout, graphics, Fallout
Cons: Lack of morale consequences or "evil" choices, railroad plot to find your kid, lack of dynamic impact from working with the lesser factions.
Overall: 7/10 would pay money.
When the GECK is released, we'll have a 9 or 10 out of 10 game.
Post by: BigD145 on November 18, 2015, 01:48:04 pm
Post by: Putnam on November 18, 2015, 01:50:40 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 18, 2015, 01:58:42 pm
Quote
Lack of morale consequences
That is kind of... the setting.
The fact that you can be an evil bastard and there is basically no real consequences speaks volumes about the horrific nature of the setting.
Post by: jocan2003 on November 18, 2015, 02:00:48 pm
Who buys a Bethesda game with the expectation of not having a lot of time to spend on it?somebody who never bought a beth game and think everything is made for casual gamer?
Post by: Putnam on November 18, 2015, 02:09:42 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on November 18, 2015, 02:22:58 pm
Spoiler: This is their distant ground texture (click to show/hide)
They're not even fucking trying for some of this. I'm not just talking about the fact that it looks like a super-low-res photo of the sun from thirty years ago, but the sheer laziness--the entire landscape at a distance looks like this, like a closeup of the sun with almost disturbingly more detailed trees and shrubs layered on top. Amazingly, it looks even worse without the color-drain of the recon scope; the dots are all red, so it looks like Earth has had a really bad breakout of pimples.
Post by: miauw62 on November 18, 2015, 02:26:56 pm
Post by: motorbitch on November 18, 2015, 02:44:37 pm
thats seriously fucked, as it totally hinders my abilities to... well, do anything realy. no glue, no oil, no free healing.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 18, 2015, 02:53:18 pm
Now that I've linked my settlements up with supply routes, can I put a bunch of water purifiers in sanctuary and have them supply the other settlements? Instead of having to build pumps everywhere.
And if I do that, would sanctuary need a direct supply route to each settlement? Or is enough to have a path through others?
Not sure why I'm asking since I could test it pretty easy, but I've been trying to avoid fast-traveling... Which is silly since the roads aren't particularly dangerous, and I'm sending barely-armed "provisioners" out there :P
Edit: In fact I'm just going to try it now
Oh wow this is actually kinda useful http://www.ign.com/wikis/fallout-4/Things_Fallout_Doesn't_Tell_You
Post by: Ivefan on November 18, 2015, 03:05:09 pm
Then this may be a bad idea, but...Nope, The supply links only gives you access to the junk category of your workshop, nothing else
Now that I've linked my settlements up with supply routes, can I put a bunch of water purifiers in sanctuary and have them supply the other settlements? Instead of having to build pumps everywhere.
And if I do that, would sanctuary need a direct supply route to each settlement? Or is enough to have a path through others?
Not sure why I'm asking since I could test it pretty easy, but I've been trying to avoid fast-traveling... Which is silly since the roads aren't particularly dangerous, and I'm sending barely-armed "provisioners" out there :P
Edit: In fact I'm just going to try it now
Oh wow this is actually kinda useful http://www.ign.com/wikis/fallout-4/Things_Fallout_Doesn't_Tell_You
Post by: miauw62 on November 18, 2015, 03:07:27 pm
guess i'll have to store all my weapons and mods in specific containers in the red rocket anyway >.>
i really just want to be able to dump it all in one place and have an easy way to categorize and access it from everywhere. inventory management isnt very fun or interesting to me.
Post by: Gabeux on November 18, 2015, 03:30:12 pm
Not to be that guy who tells you to look at the manual, but that actually helped me.
Supply links can be from anywhere to anywhere as long as it connects to a chain. It shares abstract water/food resources (not items), therefore you can have a single settlement supplying water for many others. On items, yep, it only shares the junk section (so you can go to any connected workshop and open the menu, then press T on the PC to store all junk items at once).
The problem with having a single settlement supplying food/water everywhere is that the amount of defence will be absurd to guarantee that it never gets attacked.
On sanctuary, for instance, that could mean you get to the size limit by plopping many turrets and generators.
And producing surplus is really useful when you don't have time, patience, or want to just play. You can make a settlement with just 1 dude (provisioner), a bed and one or two turrets.
Of course, surplus food and water also gets deposited on the workshop, but I don't know how exactly this works. For some reason, Sanctuary always stores more Corns than Tatos, even though production is the same. Maybe they are insane and like the Tato taste, which reportedly tastes horribly. :P
E: About inventory management - what I do, is I have a shop, a drop-box and a rare-and-unique-loot-drop-box on my "core settlements" (most central ones on the map).
I'm really OCD about time-scale being insane, so I try to always fast travel to the nearest "core settlement" to dump stuff. Then, once I have patience, I sort and sell it.
Or I don't and magically get rich anyway, because that Luck Perk helps a lot! :D
They really should give us a way to connect containers, though. Everything should be accessible, the game is already time-consuming as it is.
Post by: Lightningfalcon on November 18, 2015, 03:44:16 pm
Then this may be a bad idea, but...I have a giant purifying facility at Nordhagen Beach, and that keeps me well supplied with water everywhere, to the point I haven't bothered to build water anywhere else. The purified water bottles can also be accessed elsewhere, as whenever I need adhesives at my glue farm I have over a hundred bottles avaliable.
Now that I've linked my settlements up with supply routes, can I put a bunch of water purifiers in sanctuary and have them supply the other settlements? Instead of having to build pumps everywhere.
And if I do that, would sanctuary need a direct supply route to each settlement? Or is enough to have a path through others?
Not sure why I'm asking since I could test it pretty easy, but I've been trying to avoid fast-traveling... Which is silly since the roads aren't particularly dangerous, and I'm sending barely-armed "provisioners" out there :P
Edit: In fact I'm just going to try it now
Oh wow this is actually kinda useful http://www.ign.com/wikis/fallout-4/Things_Fallout_Doesn't_Tell_You
Post by: motorbitch on November 18, 2015, 03:49:07 pm
however, that one glitched out so awfull, no water produces, castle didnt spawn the dudes exept the first - i went back to my old game and used the console to fix it. cause, fuck this shit.
anyway, that old game has a trader bramin on the roof of one of my houses in sanctuary, and thats annoying me. has anyone a smart idea how to move that (aside of shooting it)?
i tried the console, but i cant find out what id that stupid cow has.
any help very appriciated!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Graknorke on November 18, 2015, 03:55:07 pm
Post by: motorbitch on November 18, 2015, 04:11:27 pm
ah, never mind. i just sniped it from long range, noone seem to hate that.
of course, there now is a bramin cadaver in the center of my town, but maybe it will despawn eventually.
Post by: BigD145 on November 18, 2015, 04:20:33 pm
Oh wow this is actually kinda useful http://www.ign.com/wikis/fallout-4/Things_Fallout_Doesn't_Tell_You
You could leave your power armor OR just fast travel with it.
The scrapping tip is BS if you don't have the perks that give you "every last potential component out of the dropped items and wastes nothing".
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 18, 2015, 04:21:45 pm
Post by: BigD145 on November 18, 2015, 04:22:50 pm
That's kind of unrealistic, though.
I can fast travel so why can't my power armor? I can still move in it even if its core dies.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 18, 2015, 04:25:47 pm
Would you want to spend an extended amount of time walking in a cramped, hot, stiff suit of armor, at half the usual pace, just so you won't have to come back for it?
Note this is all personal nitpicking and not meant to rag on the game
Post by: motorbitch on November 18, 2015, 04:32:12 pm
sprinting consumes so much energy, i cant use it much. so no power armor is just so much faster. especially with leg armor that gives a movement bonus.
Post by: miauw62 on November 18, 2015, 04:35:33 pm
Guess the game really likes putting actors on there.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 18, 2015, 04:39:17 pm
Post by: miauw62 on November 18, 2015, 04:44:28 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 18, 2015, 04:54:43 pm
Also thanks for the information, and on an unrelated note I'm really digging the atmospheric music tracks in this. Barely touched the radio. I used to praise the old Fallouts for music which made the world sound dead and haunted... Glad to hear it here!
Post by: motorbitch on November 18, 2015, 04:55:12 pm
anyway, found an exploit.
proably old stuff, someone else must have found it before. still:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: lemon10 on November 18, 2015, 04:57:10 pm
Well, not unrealistic so much as... Kind of silly.Power armor is valuable and keeps you safe. I can't imagine you (in the real world) would leave it around for someone to loot, and since the wasteland is so dangerous, logically you would want to keep as much protection as you can while traveling.
Would you want to spend an extended amount of time walking in a cramped, hot, stiff suit of armor, at half the usual pace, just so you won't have to come back for it?
Note this is all personal nitpicking and not meant to rag on the game
Now, obviously since there is a constant energy cost to use them, that wouldn't be a given that you would use one if available, but otherwise most people that have a set would probably use it while traveling.
Post by: miauw62 on November 18, 2015, 05:00:46 pm
No, but eventually you'll see the sun below you. Be warned soon an atomic wyvern will arrive to punish your hubris and destroy your language.I've had nothing but Diamond City Radio for the entire game. The songs have been stuck in my head for days, and the radio dude is fun to listen to, even if I've heard all his lines by now I haven't played as much as many people here, aaalllmmmooost at ten hours and as many levels, I think. I assume he gets other lines if you progress the main or faction quests. Make that hope.
Also thanks for the information, and on an unrelated note I'm really digging the atmospheric music tracks in this. Barely touched the radio. I used to praise the old Fallouts for music which made the world sound dead and haunted... Glad to hear it here!
That reminds me, new title. Doesn't even fit in the character limit.
Post by: jocan2003 on November 18, 2015, 05:12:40 pm
I feel kinda bored by some aspect of the game, going auto is asking to be in trouble as ammo can be scarce at time and cost fuckton to stock up if you are using automatic weapon. Also with the new system automatic seem to have too much damage soaked before being applied for damage... IE Your minigun does 6 damage per bullet, sure it shoots hellofalotfast but on those 6, 2 is removed due to armor, sometime even 3 negating up to 50% of your DPS. Yet if i use a high power rifle doing 80 damage, the same 2 is removed doing 78 damage per bullet wich translate to about only 1.5% damage negation. So why would i waste fuckton of cash on low power ammo and just waste them on armor protecting enemy when i can use higher powered caliber and save lots of money....
Anyway i still love the game and i still sinks 10hr a day on it and i hate myself for doing that. Survival has lots of legendaries wich can give you very good weapons, i have a shotgun wich has a 20% of crippling target legs no matter when i hit. I can kill deathclaw with it easily as i just need to pump a couple rounds and the deathcclaw cannot run anymore hahaha, then i let my npc finish him to save on ammo or i melee it from a side he cannot hit me. I do that to a lot of melee enemy, and humanoids gets rifle in the face or gatling laser. I use the mod wich increase damage er shot but greatly reduce the rate of fire. Sometime i hate being min-maxeer... i feel like im missing some of the game experience.... Namely supposed scracity of good wich i dont seem to affect me at all.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 18, 2015, 05:47:14 pm
hm, i may be wierd in this way, but i hardly ever use the power armor.I have 53 fusion cores. At this point I could probably play for a few hundred hours without leaving my power armor.
sprinting consumes so much energy, i cant use it much. so no power armor is just so much faster. especially with leg armor that gives a movement bonus.
Post by: BFEL on November 18, 2015, 06:03:14 pm
Its actually easier then I expected it to be. I thought such a specialized build would be a recipe for failure, but this is going better then my normal playthrough. Having no crafting perks isn't as big a burden as I thought, as most of the good mods can be found and taken from random loot and honestly the biggest thing I miss is the level 3 life giver regen. Other then that this is easy town.
Oh, speaking of which, for those who found "sturdy" or "heavy" versions of normal armors, such as that kick ass chestpiece I had in the other run, note that its easier to make the mods for a normal version, and they can carry over.
Post by: Teneb on November 18, 2015, 06:32:17 pm
I should mention it's one of those weapon drops from legendaries, rather than an unique weapon.
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 18, 2015, 06:54:58 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Niveras on November 18, 2015, 07:01:36 pm
No, but eventually you'll see the sun below you. Be warned soon an atomic wyvern will arrive to punish your hubris and destroy your language.
Heh. Mod idea: if you build settlements too high (say, three levels or more, or whatever the "height cap" is, if one exists), be attacked by Alduin. Imported from Skyrim.
Post by: AlleeCat on November 18, 2015, 07:32:49 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rolan7 on November 18, 2015, 07:41:13 pm
I wonder if the Brotherhood finds me creepy sometimes.
Spoiler: Very early barely-spoilers (click to show/hide)
Post by: AlleeCat on November 18, 2015, 08:06:16 pm
Suffer not the Super Mutant to live!
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 18, 2015, 08:12:26 pm
But yeah, they're the big dudes with fancy toys above the filthy
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 18, 2015, 08:18:23 pm
I feel like the Brotherhood is Fallout's answer to Space Marines.I have taken to not wearing a helmet while in my power armor. Makes me feel more like a spes marine
Suffer not the Super Mutant to live!
Post by: Teneb on November 18, 2015, 08:19:28 pm
We need a mod to make the pauldrons bigger and the helmet smaller.I feel like the Brotherhood is Fallout's answer to Space Marines.I have taken to not wearing a helmet while in my power armor. Makes me feel more like a spes marine
Suffer not the Super Mutant to live!
Post by: Putnam on November 18, 2015, 08:20:07 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 18, 2015, 08:21:22 pm
Spoiler: Midweek Dwarven Style (click to show/hide)
However, that playlist has songs I didn't hear, and some songs I like are missing (like Rocket 69), so I mix with other ones. Guess it'll be easier if I make one myself.
What's funny is that I have absolutely no one in my life that hear this sort of music.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 18, 2015, 08:23:27 pm
Sure, they only have different origins, goals, equipment and lore, but aside from that, they're very similar. :PI see them as space marines but... Nicer. Promoting original science instead of *exclusively* preserving ancient knowledge. And sharing that knowledge with wastelanders when reasonable.
Of course it helps that I played Fallout 2 before I knew anything about 40K, so my experience was pretty much "Hey, these guys are like the Brotherhood! That's cool - Oh WOW they're luddite dicks." "Catchy slogans though."
But yeah, they're the big dudes with fancy toys above the filthyImperial GuardNCR troopers etc. Much like the space marines, they also would lose a conflict against the NCR (though the BS actually did). They do have similarities in their general role in the lore.
I still hate that they fought the NCR, but it does make some sense...
THE NCR WAS GREEDY! :P
Kidding aside, I really need to play through Fallout 1 sometime so I can figure out why the fuck everyone considers the Brotherhood to be xenophobic dicks. I've just yet to see it. NV doesn't count because they're literally being exterminated.
Post by: Teneb on November 18, 2015, 08:26:49 pm
the pauldrons are already fuckhueg compared to the previous games thoughNot tall enough to be spehss mahreens, though. Look, we already got the gunners with IG-looking amours and uniforms, and the super mutants are a decent stand-in for Orks. I just want an excuse to also mod in gothic chants so I can purge the mutant in the name of
Post by: Gabeux on November 18, 2015, 08:34:59 pm
Kidding aside, I really need to play through Fallout 1 sometime so I can figure out why the fuck everyone considers the Brotherhood to be xenophobic dicks. I've just yet to see it. NV doesn't count because they're literally being exterminated.
Spoiler: 1 - Railroad quote minor spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: 2 - Railroad and BoS further minor spoilers (click to show/hide)
I stopped right at this point on the game though, but to me it's super weird.
Even though I doubt BoS has any clue of what they are doing regarding sentient artificial life, therefore prioritizing genocide as to simplify and prevent loss of human life, this felt non-sensical from a tactical, strategical and moral stand point.
Unless there's more to be revealed about Railroad..which I bet there is.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 18, 2015, 08:41:29 pm
Post by: BFEL on November 18, 2015, 08:44:18 pm
It revolves around every single participant being a literal retard who can't even consider sitting down and talking things out with others to the point that anyone with a dissenting opinion is slaughtered on the spot.
So yes it basically is WH40K.
Post by: Gabeux on November 18, 2015, 08:45:04 pm
Btw, there's something in the trailer which is EXTREMELY spoilery.
Spoiler: If you did not watch trailers, and haven't gotten far, don't read (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rolan7 on November 18, 2015, 08:54:52 pm
Pretty sure the unspoilered bit is a bit spoilery, mate.I thought that part had been revealed a few times in the thread already, but eh. I'm bad at gauging spoilers.
I didn't open the spoiler tags yet either, since I'm definitely not far enough in. But frankly, as much as I'm enjoying this game, it can't really convince me that the Brotherhood was always evil. I'd need evidence from 1 or 2.
I'm ready for the Brotherhood to finally be monstrous in FO4... I think it'd make a nice change. But it'd just be a rogue offshoot, like the Outcasts in FO3. Or... arguably the result of a gradual corruption. That'd be understandable and interesting too, if a bit painful. Just like the NCR-BoS war.
But like, some guy in the Fallout story subreddit was arguing that the BoS slaughtered civilians right after leaving Mariposa... Based on an account which praised Maxsom to an uncomfortable extent and mentioned raiders in the wastes. Arguing that the raiders were probably just civilians. ...So yeah, that's a strawman, but it seems like this fan hate comes from an in-game source I just haven't found. And I want to know where to look.
Reminds me of how I loved Durandal in Marathon 2, literally cried for him at one point, but eventually I played Marathon 1. He did some terrible things before he started helping humanity.
Post by: motorbitch on November 18, 2015, 09:01:51 pm
I think I found what might be the weapon I'll use for a very long time... a hunting rifle with infinite ammo capacity. Not infinite ammo, mind you, but basically never have to reload, ever.tho it appears to me that most, if not all, unique weapons have just one of the specials the legendary drops have too, plus a fancy name.
I should mention it's one of those weapon drops from legendaries, rather than an unique weapon.
damn, i so want one of them to drop a two shot assault rifle already XD
but then, it proably would break the game. i do have a two shot combat rifle, and thats already borderline gamebreaking.
Post by: NullForceOmega on November 18, 2015, 09:03:05 pm
The Brotherhood right off the bat offers to send you off on a job to the glow (needs some speech skill tho'), which no member of the BoS has returned from, and when you return, they immediately make you a member. If you wander around talking to people in the bunker (after you join, because otherwise you aren't getting in) there are some really interesting characters who you can interact with, and one of them will even set you up with power armor (which you need adequate skills to re-assemble.)
I suppose if you just really hate trying to do difficult things then being sent to the Glow would seem like they're just trying to get you killed. And if you have to systematically raid every single location for everything you can then their unwillingness to let you wander freely inside the bunker might bother you. But other than that I am completely incapable of grasping the hate.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on November 18, 2015, 09:16:13 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on November 18, 2015, 09:20:54 pm
Also with the new system automatic seem to have too much damage soaked before being applied for damage... IE Your minigun does 6 damage per bullet, sure it shoots hellofalotfast but on those 6, 2 is removed due to armor, sometime even 3 negating up to 50% of your DPS. Yet if i use a high power rifle doing 80 damage, the same 2 is removed doing 78 damage per bullet wich translate to about only 1.5% damage negation. So why would i waste fuckton of cash on low power ammo and just waste them on armor protecting enemy when i can use higher powered caliber and save lots of money....
I... can honestly say that this is the direct opposite of my experience. Every automatic weapon I've used has killed faster than and almost as efficiently as semi-auto weapons. The only time when semi-auto is flat out better is on babby difficulty or against enemies underleveled enough that you can one-shot them. I've converted almost every weapon I use over to auto, and I'm normally one of those dopes who likes to snipe with maximum alpha damage weapons from the draw distance. For one, too many enemies are total bullet-sponges that will kill you if you don't burn them down first.
Have you seen X-01?the pauldrons are already fuckhueg compared to the previous games thoughNot tall enough to be spehss mahreens, though. Look, we already got the gunners with IG-looking amours and uniforms, and the super mutants are a decent stand-in for Orks. I just want an excuse to also mod in gothic chants so I can purge the mutant in the name ofthe EmperorMaxson.
Spoiler: The main difference is honestly the greaves. (click to show/hide)
Post by: Putnam on November 18, 2015, 09:23:11 pm
No, seriously, you will find no reasonable justification for the BoS hate in Fallout 1.
The Brotherhood right off the bat offers to send you off on a job to the glow (needs some speech skill tho'), which no member of the BoS has returned from, and when you return, they immediately make you a member. If you wander around talking to people in the bunker (after you join, because otherwise you aren't getting in) there are some really interesting characters who you can interact with, and one of them will even set you up with power armor (which you need adequate skills to re-assemble.)
I suppose if you just really hate trying to do difficult things then being sent to the Glow would seem like they're just trying to get you killed. And if you have to systematically raid every single location for everything you can then their unwillingness to let you wander freely inside the bunker might bother you. But other than that I am completely incapable of grasping the hate.
That's sorta ignoring the way it's said, though. It seems almost like the dude's trying not to laugh about how he's sending this sheltered asshole to their death by radiation.
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 18, 2015, 09:23:21 pm
Is the faction you choose to get help from in Institutionalized basically "locking in" your main faction? I chose the Minutemen and the BoS quest line still isn't continuing, even though I was told it continues when I
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, how close is Institutionalized to the end of the main quest line? I'm scared of going further yet.
Post by: Neonivek on November 18, 2015, 09:26:09 pm
Warhammer the game that is supposed to be as generic as humanly possible?
Post by: NullForceOmega on November 18, 2015, 09:27:26 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 18, 2015, 09:30:45 pm
That last bit is where the truth lies. Their attitudes clash directly with typical RPG player sensibilities in which no NPC should be allowed to stop the PC from looting everything they want.I'm not far yet, but here in the early-ish game around level 16? This is true, at least compared to New Vegas.Also with the new system automatic seem to have too much damage soaked before being applied for damage... IE Your minigun does 6 damage per bullet, sure it shoots hellofalotfast but on those 6, 2 is removed due to armor, sometime even 3 negating up to 50% of your DPS. Yet if i use a high power rifle doing 80 damage, the same 2 is removed doing 78 damage per bullet wich translate to about only 1.5% damage negation. So why would i waste fuckton of cash on low power ammo and just waste them on armor protecting enemy when i can use higher powered caliber and save lots of money....
I... can honestly say that this is the direct opposite of my experience. Every automatic weapon I've used has killed faster than and almost as efficiently as semi-auto weapons. The only time when semi-auto is flat out better is on babby difficulty or against enemies underleveled enough that you can one-shot them. I've converted almost every weapon I use over to auto, and I'm normally one of those dopes who likes to snipe with maximum alpha damage weapons from the draw distance. For one, too many enemies are total bullet-sponges that will kill you if you don't burn them down first.
New Vegas went crazy with Damage Threshold, even in the early game. Automatic weapons were bizarrely weak. So far, FO4 seems to have corrected for that.
I do see the point about miniguns... Kinda. It's an edge case, which stands to lose the most from damage threshold. Still, it's kinda ridiculous that a minigun would be so weak against an armored enemy... These aren't rubber bullets.
Are we honestly going to say that Fallout 4 is Copying Warhammer?No no, the Brotherhood of Steel just has certain similarities to Space Mahreens (tm). And also significant differences.
Warhammer the game that is supposed to be as generic as humanly possible?
This isn't a Starcraft situation :P
Post by: Kot on November 18, 2015, 09:41:07 pm
Warhammer the game that is supposed to be as generic as humanly possible?You wot m8.
Post by: Neonivek on November 18, 2015, 09:42:38 pm
Quote
I do see the point about miniguns... Kinda. It's an edge case, which stands to lose the most from damage threshold. Still, it's kinda ridiculous that a minigun would be so weak against an armored enemy... These aren't rubber bullets
Well... Lets test this theory shall we!
5mm is about .22 caliber... It is pretty much the lowest Caliber a weapon can have outside specialty ammo in real life.
Suffice it to say that is as low as it gets for a Machine gun and has absolutely no penetration power. Meaning that the Minigun is meant to spray a lot of low damaging ammo.
heck the 10mm ammo is actually a serious bullet caliber and has more of a punch (and still isn't the highest caliber you get)
---
Interesting bit of Trivia: 5mm bullets are more accurately named 5.56mm bullets
Post by: TheBronzePickle on November 18, 2015, 09:52:15 pm
5.56, despite being a tiny little bullet, is actually really good at penetrating armor. This is because it is a tiny little bullet. Tiny bullets are actually pretty good at going through armor, because they're tiny.
Presumably, a military weapon of the scale of a minigun would probably want a bullet that could decently affect enemies in armor. It's reasonable to assume, then, that the minigun should probably be firing something like a slightly scaled-down 5.56.
Keep in mind that caliber is only a small part of a bullet's effect. Its shape, the amount of powder behind it, and the gun it's being fired out of all have an effect, and the minigun's long barrels would, at the very least, be able to propel the bullet reasonably accurately (person/platform holding it notwithstanding) and with most of the propellant's force behind it.
Post by: NullForceOmega on November 18, 2015, 09:54:37 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 18, 2015, 09:54:43 pm
5mm bullets do exist...
They are .20 caliber bullets which are NEVER used anymore.
Meaning the Minigun was made as an anti-personel weapon.
Unless the 5mm ammo is something along the lines of .22 LR
Yeah sorry .22 LR is actually better then the Minigun's ammo. Assuming it really is 5mm bullets.
In theory I guess the Minigun could have been designed to be a portable machine gun you could fire while holding without propping yourself up on anything.
Post by: NullForceOmega on November 18, 2015, 09:58:30 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 18, 2015, 10:00:27 pm
Actually, the 'real' minigun (the GE M134) uses 7.62x51mm ammo, or approximately .30 caliber, and would pretty seriously wreck anything not made of armor that it is aimed at.
I assume this is a different Minigun or at least been modified to use a different type of ammo. (probably due to a bullet shortage)
But yeah real Helicopter Miniguns are nothing to scoff at.
5mm isn't even a bullet made for self-defense. It is for small game. You use it to shoot ducks and Rabbits and lacks the punch to take down deer. It probably lacks the power to penetrate the skull (do not test this!)
Post by: Gabeux on November 18, 2015, 10:23:21 pm
I stole one but I think I can fire 2 shots from a hunting rifle which is more effective than the Gauss.
Then again, I didn't even mod it because it seemed stupid compared to my 160 dmg x 2 (plus bonuses) legendary plasma rifle. 8)
Damage feels really weird. Since you guys are talking about it, why the 5.56 mm Assault Rifle seems to ditch more damage than a .50 cal hunting rifle?
I feel more ignorant than I ever was. Not that I ever knew much about firearms and ammunition, though.
PS: It's also hilarious that I can 1 shot most things, but if I use an automatic weapon it takes probably 100+ ammo. Semi-auto / Auto perks feel very weird.
I'm also curious if the Commando (automatic gun damage bonus perk) also applies to the vertibird minigun.
Post by: redwallzyl on November 18, 2015, 10:29:07 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 18, 2015, 10:30:42 pm
i always loved my outrageously OP .50 caliber heavy machine gun from my modded fallout new Vegas game. power armored guys just exploded in a quick burst. anyone else just turned to paste in less than a second. ludicrously heavy and expensive though. not that it mattered with my 900 carry weight and hundred thousand caps.
Wow anti-tank machinegun.
Post by: Putnam on November 18, 2015, 10:32:07 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 18, 2015, 10:36:19 pm
"Haha, yeah, I wouldn't do any better."
Still "rage" quit the game for a few weeks. Though I ended up loving it for the dialogue and stories. Combat was pretty lame though... Snipe everything with the highest per-shot damage you can get.
Edit: I still feel like damage threshold should have been limited to power armor. And I guess the butchered abominations worn by the NCR elite.
Sometimes I wonder why I even supported the NCR... Oh yeah, they were cool in FO2 and the Legion was pants-on-head retarded and evil. Missed opportunity.
(I would have sided with House, except that my brother did first)
Post by: Neonivek on November 18, 2015, 10:44:48 pm
While House is just an egotist who will help no one but himself...
Post by: redwallzyl on November 18, 2015, 10:45:12 pm
Actually an anti-materiel rifle, yeah.actually a belt feed machine gun like the ones mounted on vehicles with an ammo box.
this one
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Neonivek on November 18, 2015, 10:46:49 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on November 18, 2015, 10:49:54 pm
About Gauss Rifle, is it really worth it carrying one around (unless it's a legendary)?
I stole one but I think I can fire 2 shots from a hunting rifle which is more effective than the Gauss.
Then again, I didn't even mod it because it seemed stupid compared to my 160 dmg x 2 (plus bonuses) legendary plasma rifle. 8)
Damage feels really weird. Since you guys are talking about it, why the 5.56 mm Assault Rifle seems to ditch more damage than a .50 cal hunting rifle?
I feel more ignorant than I ever was. Not that I ever knew much about firearms and ammunition, though.
PS: It's also hilarious that I can 1 shot most things, but if I use an automatic weapon it takes probably 100+ ammo. Semi-auto / Auto perks feel very weird.
I'm also curious if the Commando (automatic gun damage bonus perk) also applies to the vertibird minigun.
Gauss rifles are fucking amazing. Modded out you get 20 shots before reloading, with a couple perks you're doing upwards of 300 damage per shot, and it's a charge weapon. If you're going to snipe, the Gauss rifle is top dog.
Fluffwise I'd argue that it's because the .50 hunting rifle is just that--a .308 hunting rifle upchambered for the larger round, rather than the AM rifles which people associate with the round. Mechanically, I'd say a combination of nerfed sneak damage, no random crits, and tougher targets. It's one of the reasons I really like FO4: Bethesda is finally getting away from the usual paradigm of sneaky characters that do alpha-strikes with super high damage modifiers being the optimal build. Sneak damage only scales up to 2.5x, crits are only in VATS (which is inherently close-ranged), and a lot of the longrifles "feel" like they take longer to cycle between shots.
Basically you've got a bunch of new paradigms that are now as good or better than the usual one:
1. LUCKmeister who abuses VATS and crits to no end.
2. Melee character who does the same.
3. Skill-based melee oriented around mobility.
4. Rambo, full auto and explosives spam. (I used more grenades in the first six hours of FO4 than I did in the entirety of FO3 or NV.)
5. Mid-range skill-based marksman, because the semi-auto DMR-build rifles are pretty damn strong if you can control the recoil and use cover properly.
6. SPEHSS MUHREEN TERMINATUH
Post by: BlackFlyme on November 18, 2015, 10:59:21 pm
And grenades. Grenades everywhere. Explosives feel better to me now, but raiders sure do seem to love their molotovs.
Post by: Gabeux on November 18, 2015, 11:02:04 pm
I'm the mid-range skill based guy, but when it gets to close range I just use the silenced Assault Rifle which, at level 52 rank 5 rifleman, makes that "spit" noise and does 98% of damage to most things not-south of the map. It's extremely funny.
For serious things the 2x plasma sniper does the job. But I want something even more absurd. Probably Gauss is the way to go.
E - Random: I've never been so paranoid and anxious about missing a magazine and a bobblehead...I think it's weird when I go to a major place and I can't find any..
Post by: Neonivek on November 18, 2015, 11:02:47 pm
Quote
Though sneaking does seem a little less OP. Enemies seem a little more alert this time around.
Well if you get all the sneaking perks and the sneaking magazines... It is probably just as ethereal.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 18, 2015, 11:04:18 pm
It is because while the NCR aren't perfect, they are a necessary evil who do have genuine altruistic tendencies.I... basically agree with the first part. The NCR represented a bureaucracy which, while inefficient, was altruistic. There was a chance that it could learn from the mistakes and evils of the former regimes. Particularly if heroes arose to "deal with" certain evil groups within it. It's complicated, but it also established a new nation with trade routes and division of labor. The big-government idealist path.
While House is just an egotist who will help no one but himself...
But House was good! He... Embodied the pre-war libertarian ideal. Which I have a lot of respect for, even though I believe it's wrong. I was tempted to follow him for the wrong reasons, actually. I thought he'd make a good dictator, brilliant and impartial. But that was foolish, because his entire strategy is laissez-faire. Frankly, the gangs he put in place were made of morons who would inevitably ruin everything without radical restructuring.
He was good, but it wouldn't have worked in my opinion. Which helped my decision... Though it pained me. He had such grand hopes for humanity. More hopeful than the NCR, but less practical.
Meanwhile the Legion feels like a missed opportunity. But thinking about it, I'm not sure what else it should have represented. Xenophobia? Check. The savagery of the agrarian tribes versus the technology of the developed coast? Check. The big fault is that it, for some reason, took a giant radioactive crap all over the women. Which didn't make any in-universe sense, and simply drove home that they were teh evil. The developers came so close to making an interesting third faction, but then went too far.
(Not to mention that the karma system took sides, which also was unfortunate)
Fakedit: Huh, sorry. That got away from me a little. Fun topic (:
Post by: Neonivek on November 18, 2015, 11:25:48 pm
Yet once your in, they treat you incredibly well and are much less corrupt then the NCR.
The Legion, if they worked, are a "Ends justifies the means" where you get a vision of what a Legion run America would be like, which is a bastion of culture and liberal progress... Yet you know that they will only achieve this through the slaughter and subjugation of all those that stand before it.
While the NCR are compromising but corrupt. They aren't perfect and are sort of a faded version of American idealism. They aren't into converting people at the end of a gun but are rather a "if you want our aid, you will have to join up".
While House is more about independence, whether or not Vegas should remain untouched and neutral in this even at the expense of everyone else.
---
The issue is... of course... that The whole Legion section of the game (both of them...) were cut from the game.
So all you got was a very weird psychological genocide made to make people afraid of the Legion in order to make people surrender.
Post by: Gabeux on November 18, 2015, 11:41:43 pm
Dem mods <3
Post by: Rolan7 on November 18, 2015, 11:47:59 pm
The Legion was supposed to be incredibly Militaristic who basically cuts a bloody swath across everywhere they touch.This pretty well describes the NCR as well. Expansionist to a fault, seeking to cover everyone in their banner... Using military force when necessary. I like them, but I have no doubt that they intend to reclaim the United States, if they're able, and then to go even farther.
Yet once your in, they treat you incredibly well [cut]
The Legion's motives are more nebulous. The tribes were fine with isolationism for nigh 200 years, but then this guy comes along and whips them into a conquering force. What are Caesar's goals? World conquest or... Getting revenge on the Followers?
and are much less corrupt then the NCR.I... I don't follow this. In what way are they at all liberal/cultural? To me they represented the exact opposite, literally.
The Legion, if they worked, are a "Ends justifies the means" where you get a vision of what a Legion run America would be like, which is a bastion of culture and liberal progress... Yet you know that they will only achieve this through the slaughter and subjugation of all those that stand before it.
While the NCR are compromising but corrupt. They aren't perfect and are sort of a faded version of American idealism. They aren't into converting people at the end of a gun but are rather a "if you want our aid, you will have to join up".Absolutely, 100%. Which is why I understand when people avoid the NCR - it has every sign of becoming a new Enclave. IE, the Fallout USA: a corrupt imperialistic bureaucracy.
While House is more about independence, whether or not Vegas should remain untouched and neutral in this even at the expense of everyone else.Yeah... A real shame. With "Lonesome Road" I have a chance to go check out the Legion heartland a little... Sadly, it's a radiated hellhole (;
---
The issue is... of course... that The whole Legion section of the game (both of them...) were cut from the game.
Sorry, honestly, I don't understand this sentence. I might be too sleepy/inebriated.
So all you got was a very weird psychological genocide made to make people afraid of the Legion in order to make people surrender.
Turns out I was EXTREMELY wrong about Gauss Rifles. Holy shit 400 damage.I want 400 damage ;_;
Dem mods <3
Even glancing over the mod options for basic energy weapons, I already know I want to keep leveling SCIENCE!
Post by: Neonivek on November 18, 2015, 11:51:31 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 18, 2015, 11:57:37 pm
Sorta like the Ur-Quan Kzer-Za.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Neonivek on November 18, 2015, 11:59:11 pm
Mind you a large implication is that the NCR are extremely inefficient due to being spread so thin.
Post by: Gabeux on November 19, 2015, 12:17:44 am
I'll put in spoiler tags but won't mention names, so it should cater to all audiences. Don't read if you want to find everything by yourself.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Neonivek on November 19, 2015, 12:18:44 am
Is it so hard for them to get it through their dumb minds that junk is incredibly useful?
Post by: Flying Dice on November 19, 2015, 12:22:57 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Eh? Ranged sneak attacks do up to 3.5x with all three ranks of ninja, and can go as high as 5.25x with Mister Sandman if you use a silenced weapon. Melee gets up to 10x. Though sneaking does seem a little less OP. Enemies seem a little more alert this time around.Herp, my bad on Ninja, I misremembered.
And grenades. Grenades everywhere. Explosives feel better to me now, but raiders sure do seem to love their molotovs.
Doesn't change the fact that you don't get that nonsense where sneak attacks did double the normal critical damage (aka a 4x multiplier at the baseline), and then another 125% increase with Better Criticals and Just Lucky I'm Alive. Shit was whack. Melee being at 10% is fair, considering how much will wreck you if you get detected up close and personal without getting your big hit in first.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 19, 2015, 12:28:40 am
Codsworth keeps judging me :P
The Minuteman actually seems pretty great, but I already put a point into making dogmeat incapacitate people. And apparently Dogmeat doesn't disable the "Lone Wanderer" perk. I haven't *taken* that perk, but still.
But seriously, having Dogmeat is great. Alerting me to enemies, stashes, and loving me unconditionally.
Also IDK about mechanically, but sensibly, Codsworth is unstealthy as all hell. FWOOoOOSH BRITHIS WORZ PHEEEW
Okay I do love his dialogue, but sorry to him.
(And a fuckin robot ought to be even more loyal than a dog, I think)
I will admit I wish I could make them shut up everytime I pick up junk.Wait do some of the humans do that?
Is it so hard for them to get it through their dumb minds that junk is incredibly useful?
That sounds annoying
Post by: Flying Dice on November 19, 2015, 12:31:53 am
Post by: Neonivek on November 19, 2015, 12:32:47 am
He also has REALLY garbage aim...
Post by: Gabeux on November 19, 2015, 12:38:15 am
To me, the worse one in terms of combat AND dialog is the medic girl. Cuteness doesn't make up for it.
I also wish they'd be more obvious or just show us what the follower is good at. Because maybe that influence combat in some way.
Codsworth is decent on early game but...eh. I liked having him as a companion and getting the final friendship level (or something), but I'm keeping him at home.
Non-human followers are easier to manage inventory too. Just dump everything on him, and then press R to take all when at base. With humans you have to do that manually. ::)
Post by: Neonivek on November 19, 2015, 12:39:35 am
Post by: Wiles on November 19, 2015, 01:41:36 am
I'm rather stuck on an escort the scribe mission at the moment.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: miauw62 on November 19, 2015, 01:59:41 am
Post by: Neonivek on November 19, 2015, 02:03:29 am
I wish I had played with different companions throughout the game but I've just stuck with one and I'm so far into the game it hardly seems worth switching at this point.
Some companions have special abilities (actually they all KIND of do...) as well I think the perk bonus you get stays even when your with someone else.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 19, 2015, 03:45:12 am
"Begun, the smut wars have." ::)
Post by: Aseaheru on November 19, 2015, 03:49:08 am
I wish I had played with different companions throughout the game but I've just stuck with one and I'm so far into the game it hardly seems worth switching at this point.
I'm rather stuck on an escort the scribe mission at the moment.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You try bringing a vertibird?
Post by: Gabeux on November 19, 2015, 04:09:13 am
I had killed a whole group of NPCs I found somewhere who didn't seem..nice..to me.
Later on, a quest involved this group. Turns out if I decided to threaten the now only guy left from the group (tied to the quest), the protagonist mentions "I killed the last guy here before. In case that matters to you."
I found that really cool. Imagine if all quests had such conditionals? "If player murdered everyone then make him happy by mentioning it."
It was the most badass line I heard yet, I think.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
PS: Oh, and my follower at the time even helped with with the threat. It was really cool.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 19, 2015, 04:19:40 am
Post by: Aseaheru on November 19, 2015, 04:22:21 am
Post by: Ultimuh on November 19, 2015, 04:28:55 am
Modders giving us the mods we deserve. (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/168/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Ffallout4%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D168%26preview%3D&pUp=1l)
Yer missing an L.
Fixed it.
Post by: Gabeux on November 19, 2015, 04:39:45 am
Modders giving us the mods we deserve. (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/168/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Ffallout4%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D168%26preview%3D&pUp=1l)Every level up, a heart atJOHN CEEEENAAAA
Man...can you imagine if mods got to a point of having a talking Dogmeat (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muvrpErKvJk)?
Oh god.
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 19, 2015, 05:04:33 am
Spoiler: Actual Spoilers (click to show/hide)
Post by: BFEL on November 19, 2015, 05:44:03 am
Post by: motorbitch on November 19, 2015, 06:25:37 am
its not only the diameter of the bullet that matters, but also the lengh of the projectile, and the charge.
and a very fast projectile will do less harm to a body then a slow one.
i seriously doubt that the 5mm we have in game is the same as the .20 cal. alone from the look of the ammo feeder, its a rather long ammonition.
the .50 ammo we have in game must be the short .50 used in the .50 pistols. still quite devastating, but it cant be the long .50 used in anti material rifles or the browning m2.
no way you coud rechamber a puny hunting rifle to house that monster and indeed the damage would be way to low for this ammonition.
with makes me wonder why we cant rechamber the .44 pistol to use the .50 ammo. that was nice to have :)
i dont realy see a reason for the long .50 ammo, with gaus riffles around and 5mm mini guns, the incredible heavy long .50 proably has gone out of favour with the military a century ago.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 19, 2015, 06:32:02 am
Post by: Ultimuh on November 19, 2015, 06:34:34 am
energy weapons are better
Gauss rifles rule!
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 19, 2015, 06:38:06 am
Post by: MarcAFK on November 19, 2015, 06:57:31 am
Post by: motorbitch on November 19, 2015, 07:09:09 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on November 19, 2015, 07:15:19 am
No, that was bolt action, actually speaking of, I found a legendary combat rifle which has 20 in explosive damage! It shakes the screen a bit and if I fire too close to myself it's pretty dangerous, but it's just too good to pass up.
Post by: motorbitch on November 19, 2015, 07:34:58 am
they have quite low recoil and great full auto accuracy (almost zill recoil with commando steady aim perk) and and a good ammo capacity.
just the sights are shitty.
explosive perk would be nice indeed, but even that flat 10 energy dmg is a great dmg boost, so this pice of junk can do surprising dmg.
Post by: Ultimuh on November 19, 2015, 07:40:00 am
[high five][high fives]
Post by: Flying Dice on November 19, 2015, 07:57:35 am
Bethesda Graphics Lead: God-rays? Fog? USE THEM ALL! PUT IN EVERY GOD-RAY EVER MADE!
Spoiler: The Glowing Sea: Also plenty of fog, but not many god-rays. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Lightning, though? Hoo, boy. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Also these. These were fucking everywhere. (click to show/hide)
Post by: motorbitch on November 19, 2015, 08:32:30 am
Post by: BFEL on November 19, 2015, 08:33:07 am
so, it turns out with the right special, even the shittiest of gun can become a real killer. plasma, baybe!Trust me on one thing, take off the stock and use a sharpshooter pistol stock. It makes it so that you can just run up to pretty much anything and start pulling the trigger till they are dead, with no aiming necessary.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: MaximumZero on November 19, 2015, 08:39:51 am
*glances at the Nexus most-endorsed page*That was fast.
"Begun, the smut wars have." ::)
Post by: motorbitch on November 19, 2015, 08:49:52 am
Ai Ming? thats some chinese gal?so, it turns out with the right special, even the shittiest of gun can become a real killer. plasma, baybe!Trust me on one thing, take off the stock and use a sharpshooter pistol stock. It makes it so that you can just run up to pretty much anything and start pulling the trigger till they are dead, with no aiming necessary.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
will try the other stock tho :)
eidt:
tried it, i prefer the recoil compensating stock. slightly less accurate when jumping around, but more steady when fireing and overall more accurate, too.
Post by: BigD145 on November 19, 2015, 09:15:30 am
But seriously, having Dogmeat is great. Alerting me to enemies, stashes, and loving me unconditionally.
He also yawns when I want to start moving items between us. He knows how boring it is.
Post by: motorbitch on November 19, 2015, 09:27:37 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on November 19, 2015, 10:11:45 am
I'm just waiting for the mod which swaps the audio of that yawn with Lydia saying, "I am swo-ooorn to carry your burdens."But seriously, having Dogmeat is great. Alerting me to enemies, stashes, and loving me unconditionally.
He also yawns when I want to start moving items between us. He knows how boring it is.
Post by: BigD145 on November 19, 2015, 10:16:38 am
Also, you can give him some clothing items now, and if you give him a teddy bear he plays with it.
I've had him pick up a teddy bear in the world, before I could give him one. Unfortunately, lots of clothing that should work does not and the dog armor is not improvable as far as I've witnessed. He'll wear goggles but not glasses.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I usually don't have to worry about enemies near me that are down to 1/10th health, even without any dog perks. Dog will take them down.
Post by: Yoink on November 19, 2015, 10:22:35 am
My favorite is Dogmeat. The only one I'd ever consider taking with me despite Lone Wanderer is probablybecause she doesn't judge me and takes no shit.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm not sure who my favourite companion is, yet. There seem to be a lot of them, and still at least a few I haven't encountered.
Been a little distracted by Battlefront since my friend bought it yesterday, but I'll probably dive back into Fallout tomorrow.
Post by: JimboM12 on November 19, 2015, 11:00:46 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Teneb on November 19, 2015, 11:04:02 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: BigD145 on November 19, 2015, 11:05:13 am
Post by: Sirian on November 19, 2015, 11:07:35 am
Ai Ming? thats some chinese gal?so, it turns out with the right special, even the shittiest of gun can become a real killer. plasma, baybe!Trust me on one thing, take off the stock and use a sharpshooter pistol stock. It makes it so that you can just run up to pretty much anything and start pulling the trigger till they are dead, with no aiming necessary.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
will try the other stock tho :)
eidt:
tried it, i prefer the recoil compensating stock. slightly less accurate when jumping around, but more steady when fireing and overall more accurate, too.
Wouldn't it be better with a short barrel though ? for hip-fire accuracy ? That's what I'm using on most of my rifles (except sniper rifle of course). Also reflex sights seem to be the best of non-scoped sights.
Oh and I was wondering, is it just me who can't stand that reporter chick ? She has a weird smile and I don't really care about her reporter nonsense.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 19, 2015, 11:10:22 am
I was more than a little amused by the fact that she's perfectly willing to abandon her little sister entirely to sit in a random mudhole farm settlement doing nothing.
Post by: motorbitch on November 19, 2015, 11:44:52 am
Ai Ming? thats some chinese gal?so, it turns out with the right special, even the shittiest of gun can become a real killer. plasma, baybe!Trust me on one thing, take off the stock and use a sharpshooter pistol stock. It makes it so that you can just run up to pretty much anything and start pulling the trigger till they are dead, with no aiming necessary.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
will try the other stock tho :)
eidt:
tried it, i prefer the recoil compensating stock. slightly less accurate when jumping around, but more steady when fireing and overall more accurate, too.
Wouldn't it be better with a short barrel though ? for hip-fire accuracy ? That's what I'm using on most of my rifles (except sniper rifle of course). Also reflex sights seem to be the best of non-scoped sights.
yeah, maybe short barrel. have to check. its a short range spray and pray thingy anyhow.
i too use reflex sights on most of my guns (even on my single shot combat rifles, dont need a scope to snipe usually, and if, i also have a real sniper).
anyway, pipe gun reflex sight sucks ass, so i just go with the normal sights with work just as well.
Post by: Cyroth on November 19, 2015, 11:48:04 am
Her sense of humor is funny, but I really don't like anything else about her.
Usually running around with Curie, free Stimpacks, free heal if I'm in a pinch and because Science.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Nick is great if you're playing a sarcastic character because the snark is strong with him. Having the Sole Survivor and Nick snarking at each other is incredibly funny.
I can't stand the rest of the companions.
Dogmeat would be cool, but it always looks like he is blocking me on purpose.
Post by: motorbitch on November 19, 2015, 11:53:03 am
na, short barel is crap, same reason as pistol grip:
the hipfire accuracy for the first shot is better, but with i dont realy care bout that. i have enough accuracy from steady aim and comando anyhow, plus the gun itself is fairly accurate.
what i care about is recoil tho, and with short barrel and pistol grip, recoil will harm accuracy in autofire much more, and also pushes the gun up much more.
so, no matter what the module descriptions say, on autofire long barel + recoil compensating stock are still more accurate even in hipfire.
Post by: Sirian on November 19, 2015, 12:00:45 pm
ka, tested it.
na, short barel is crap, same reason as pistol grip:
the hipfire accuracy for the first shot is better, but with i dont realy care bout that. i have enough accuracy from steady aim and comando anyhow, plus the gun itself is fairly accurate.
what i care about is recoil tho, and with short barrel and pistol grip, recoil will harm accuracy in autofire much more, and also pushes the gun up much more.
so, no matter what the module descriptions say, on autofire long barel + recoil compensating stock are still more accurate even in hipfire.
Good to know, I'll experiment with that too then.
Post by: motorbitch on November 19, 2015, 12:33:08 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Putnam on November 19, 2015, 12:34:25 pm
besides, afaik harold was sorta the first super mutant
EDIT: just realized they basically killed him off in FO3
how dare they
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 19, 2015, 12:59:24 pm
Post by: motorbitch on November 19, 2015, 01:03:59 pm
anyway. IF you are right, how do YOU explain the lone wanderers compulsion to follow the supermutant orders?
Post by: Mattk50 on November 19, 2015, 01:13:47 pm
snip, misread. Have a screenshot anyway
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16970274/Screenshots/Fallout4%202015-11-13%2002-47-49-04.png
Post by: Gabeux on November 19, 2015, 02:24:00 pm
I was waiting for good legendary drops..so now a lot of people wear heavy armor while I was wearing metal and combat.
I didnt notice "Sturdy" and "Heavy" where actual variants for a long time. I thought they were mods.
So I just bought a set of Heavy Combat armor and modded it full.
I was extremely squishy before. Derp. Didn't notice too much because when enemies started getting too strong, I had already started going with PA everywhere..
It's really cool that they put the "Ultra-light" mod for armor. I hate going out to adventure with 50-100 available weight capacity.
Post by: miauw62 on November 19, 2015, 02:28:08 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 19, 2015, 02:30:42 pm
I mean... the more I see the more spotty the game is. Enemies trying to run through walls, allies getting stuck CONSTANTLY (And they can't aim for beans), easily repeatable game ending glitches, and just the whole settlement system.
It feels like this is just a far along Beta. I mean it could be worse (It could be Rome Total War's Alpha-esk release)
Post by: Gabeux on November 19, 2015, 02:35:21 pm
It's much, much better than Fallout 3 or Skyrim on release, though. Fallout 3 my game would crash every 10 minutes or so..sometimes even crashing during saving. Not that this is any excuse.
FO3 was the cause I started pressing F5 every minute and making backup saves every time I finish something major.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on November 19, 2015, 03:32:47 pm
Does anyone else hate those black humanoid robots with a slowly charging orange head beam weapon that can instantly kill you even in power armor?
Post by: Teneb on November 19, 2015, 03:39:59 pm
Does anyone else hate those black humanoid robots with a slowly charging orange head beam weapon that can instantly kill you even in power armor?Assaultrons, I think they are called?
Post by: Digital Hellhound on November 19, 2015, 03:56:17 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 19, 2015, 03:59:14 pm
They can also kill companions really fast.
E: Forgot to mention, I'm happy that Beth didn't make any radiated uber-shark or any aquatic creature.
If a demon, a spirit, a ghost or whatever were to appear in front of me I'd tell him to fuck off. But a fish? I'd get the fuck out of there.
Fish: My weakness.
Post by: Teneb on November 19, 2015, 04:19:20 pm
E: Forgot to mention, I'm happy that Beth didn't make any radiated uber-shark or any aquatic creature.Have you gone to the swamps in the middle-south of the map?
If a demon, a spirit, a ghost or whatever were to appear in front of me I'd tell him to fuck off. But a fish? I'd get the fuck out of there.
Fish: My weakness.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gabeux on November 19, 2015, 04:29:23 pm
E: Forgot to mention, I'm happy that Beth didn't make any radiated uber-shark or any aquatic creature.Have you gone to the swamps in the middle-south of the map?
If a demon, a spirit, a ghost or whatever were to appear in front of me I'd tell him to fuck off. But a fish? I'd get the fuck out of there.
Fish: My weakness.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yep..are you mentioning the most absurd jumpscare in the game? Because if so, yes I got it. And I died, almost for real :P.
But seriously, I played that Subnautica game.. and it was a terror game for me. For other people it's just a cute/cartoony underwater survival game. Go figure.
Post by: Cyroth on November 19, 2015, 05:21:58 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: AlleeCat on November 19, 2015, 05:29:01 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Teneb on November 19, 2015, 05:33:26 pm
I don't understand how anyone can hate Dogmeat. He's just so adorable! And you can dress him up and stuff... Seriously, I'm waiting for a mod that lets me put hats on him because then I can put a bowler hat on him and pretend hes all cockney and tuff. u wot m8? ill rek u m8 i swer on me mumi guess it's the same logic (or lack of) behind the lakelurks of 3 and NV (though there were no regular crab mirelurks in NV), though I have no idea what that logic might be.Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: AlleeCat on November 19, 2015, 05:35:32 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Cyroth on November 19, 2015, 05:39:38 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You can romance everyone at the same time. The Commonwealth isn't big on monogamy.
Post by: jocan2003 on November 19, 2015, 06:48:32 pm
Post by: ShoesandHats on November 19, 2015, 06:58:22 pm
That seems weird saying that O.O.
That's, uh, because it is weird to say that.
Post by: Gabeux on November 19, 2015, 07:12:49 pm
That seems weird saying that O.O.
That's, uh, because it is weird to say that.
Only weird because...we're on the Pre-War era! :P
Meanwhile, in reasons tonottalk somewhere dangerous... (http://imgur.com/gallery/bOPkKMD)
Hahahaa nice, something similar happened to me too.
By the way, NOT giving her the Grognak Costume is a mistake.. *wink wink*
Post by: Ultimuh on November 19, 2015, 07:50:22 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ending sequence was a bit disappointing, but at least I can continue playing.
Maybe I should start another playthrough and ally with another faction, but not yet though.
I may need a short break from FO4.
Post by: Jacob/Lee on November 19, 2015, 10:52:21 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Aseaheru on November 19, 2015, 11:01:02 pm
Autosaving saves salt everyone!
*plasma grenade blowing my char through a wall, which killed me, or atleast thats what it looked like, since when it went off the main damage was the loss of a limb or two, then about a second later I died with the enemy in a spot relative to me to have been unable to shoot me...
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 19, 2015, 11:15:19 pm
Whenever I crash/die, I only lose a couple minutes of progress at worst. Usually less than a minute.
Consequently, roughly 50% of my HDD is save files. I regret nothing at all.
Post by: Yoink on November 20, 2015, 12:30:42 am
Meanwhile, in reasons toHaha, nice.nottalk somewhere dangerous... (http://imgur.com/gallery/bOPkKMD)
It's always funny when a full-scale gunfight breaks out in the background while you're talking to someone, too... or you get jumped by a horde of ghouls whilst cooking some grilled radroach in the stewpot. >.>
Post by: AlleeCat on November 20, 2015, 12:44:39 am
girls dont care if you use other woman for procreation....Well there's a rather large problem with procreation with women in that I am a woman. Unless you know something I don't?
Where are you hiding the secret to homosexual reproduction??? Is it 3D printing babies??
Post by: Graknorke on November 20, 2015, 12:47:39 am
Post by: Vendayn on November 20, 2015, 12:54:24 am
Onto my final thoughts (really final this time lol)
Maybe its just me, but I thought Skyrim was vastly better. I also think Fallout 3 and new vegas were way better too. But Skyrim being newer than NV...
Skyrim takes about 25-30 minutes to get from one end of the map to the other if you don't stop and follow the roads. Like solitude to windhelm takes me 20-30 game time to get to it, but I don't use a horse. The number sky rockets if I DO NOT ignore bandits, but this is just running and sprinting ignoring everything. And that is only from city to city.
Fallout 4, I can get one end of the map to the other in 10-15 minutes, while following the roads AND being distracted by stuff (but ignoring mutants). And that is from starting in Sanctuary and going into Diamond City
Fallout 4 map feels WAY smaller than Skyrim.
Fallout 4 does also feel like it has vastly less content than Skyrim, comparing vanilla vs vanilla (taking no mods into account).
Skyrim, I can get so lost by the millions of possible dungeons, side quests, or doing random cr@p
Fallout 4, building a settlement is cool, but speaking of mods, Skyrim and fallout 3/NV has a WAY more USEFUL settlement building mod. In fallout 4 it feels like it doesn't really have any use, AND in fallout 4 if you build too many defenses the AI doesn't attack you (at least in sanctuary). Feels very secondary, and Skyrim's building mod(s) and Fallout 3/NV feel vastly superior and vastly more useful.
But, fallout 4...feels...like...I don't get lost at all in what I want to do or not do. There is barely anything to do compared to Skyrim or even fallout 3 or new vegas. That was why I liked older Bethesda games, they FELT vastly more sandboxy than fallout 4 does. I think this is where I'm not liking fallout 4 and where it doesn't feel right to me. While skyrim is more of a sandpark (or whatever you want to call it, since it isn't really a sandbox, but not a themepark game)...fallout 4 feels like a themepark game to me with an open world.
That doesn't even touch the lack of RPG feeling fallout 4 has (which I think I posted in my thoughts before), and I don't like FPS games, and fallout 4 feels way too much like a FPS game (which in fallout 3/NV was fine cause it had tons more RPG stuff). And a number of other issues.
But the key thing for me is, all of Bethesda's previous games felt vastly more sandboxy to me, where as fallout 4 is like playing a themepark game with an open world.
Maybe just me that sees it that way, dunno, everyone is different. But it is the very first Bethesda game that I've been disappointed by.
On the other hand, my friend is LOVING fallout 4 and compares it to borderlands all the time...which I really didn't like borderlands...but thats just me :P its not my type of game :P But I do see it being compared to that a lot, especially by console players. If it is indeed like borderlands (to be honest never played it, I already know from watching videos I'd not like it at all), no wonder I'm PERSONALLY greatly disliking fallout 4 lol. (edit: I should say, my friend doesn't even LIKE RPGs, only fps and RTS games, he hasn't ever liked one single RPG. Which to me since I know him personally, speaks for itself that he likes fallout 4 so much lol)
And also as a sidenote, it isn't even because I played Witcher 3 before hand. I never really got into Witcher 3, I think skyrim is better (definitely my opinion on this one) simply because witcher 3 has vastly worse modding capabilities and skyrim's modded is vastly superior to witcher 3 for me (again my opinion lol).
I'll be going back to playing modded Skyrim and witcher 3 (I do like it if I could play a female lol) once a playable ciri mod is out (if there ever is one)
Post by: Flying Dice on November 20, 2015, 06:08:46 am
Skyrim takes about 25-30 minutes to get from one end of the map to the other if you don't stop and follow the roads. Like solitude to windhelm takes me 20-30 game time to get to it, but I don't use a horse. The number sky rockets if I DO NOT ignore bandits, but this is just running and sprinting ignoring everything. And that is only from city to city.Point of order: you're comparing literally one corner of the map to the opposite side versus one corner of the map to (roughly) the center. A more accurate equivalent would be Vault 111 to the Glowing Sea.
Fallout 4, I can get one end of the map to the other in 10-15 minutes, while following the roads AND being distracted by stuff (but ignoring mutants). And that is from starting in Sanctuary and going into Diamond City
Fallout 4 map feels WAY smaller than Skyrim.I mostly agree. That said, a lot of Skyrim's map was taken up by functionally impassable mountains, water, and parts of other provinces which you couldn't enter, and you can literally go off the map in FO4 in a certain place. Though to be fair the other way, like 1/6th of FO4's map is mostly water. I'd say that it feels smaller because it is smaller.
Fallout 4 does also feel like it has vastly less content than Skyrim, comparing vanilla vs vanilla (taking no mods into account).This I don't agree with. FO4 is smaller, but it also feels much more content-dense. Certainly you could wander around for 20 minutes in random places in Skyrim... but most of Skyrim was empty terrain. The dungeons were same-y, there were no random encounters, and the sidequests were finite. In FO4 it's basically impossible to wander for more than a couple minutes without finding something new, getting into a fight, or seeing something interesting. I've got 72 hours logged with FO4 and I've barely explored half of the map, and maybe ~20% of the interiors. By comparison I've got 94 hours logged with Skyrim and not only have I explored the entire world and ~75% of the interiors (meaningful ones, that is, not shitty little one-room houses that you have to load into), but I've actually created and played around half a dozen characters to decently high levels.
Skyrim, I can get so lost by the millions of possible dungeons, side quests, or doing random cr@p
So I'd say that FO4 is superficially smaller than vanilla Skyrim, but that it has a lot more packed into the space it does have. There aren't any giant fucking stretches of wilderness in FO4, and there aren't any highly vertical urban environments in Skyrim. Neither is a judgement.
Fallout 4, building a settlement is cool, but speaking of mods, Skyrim and fallout 3/NV has a WAY more USEFUL settlement building mod. In fallout 4 it feels like it doesn't really have any use, AND in fallout 4 if you build too many defenses the AI doesn't attack you (at least in sanctuary). Feels very secondary, and Skyrim's building mod(s) and Fallout 3/NV feel vastly superior and vastly more useful.If you're talking about the FO3/NV mod I think you're talking about... hah. That mod's got exactly two things up on FO4's vanilla building, and that's being able to clip objects into terrain a little + raiders spawning on the edge of your territory.
sandboxEh, that's down to opinion, I think.
Personally I love FO4 for being a better FPS, because FO3 and NV were both fucking atrocious as far as combat went. They even went out of their way to include an option *cough*VATS*cough* that is much more of the stat-reliant combat system that it once was as opposed to the press-pause-to-win we got in 3 and NV.
IDK, I guess I don't really get the mentality that defines RPGs based on crunch rather than fluff--that is, that thinks something is an RPG because it has lots of numbers rather than because you're creating a person within the framework of the dev's world and then deciding how they behave and interact with others. A less shit combat system is something that should complement that, not detract from it, because it broadens what you can do with your character. In that regard FO4 is the best RPG Bethesda has made for years, because not only are there multiple viable approaches to combat, but you can also almost totally avoid it with a CHA-centric build which talks down enemies and allows you to do a near-total pacifist run or be a manipulative ass.
Don't tell me that people haven't been whining since forever about RPGs which force every character to spend some time being a murderhobo regardless of their personality.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on November 20, 2015, 06:18:16 am
Couldn't you do that thing like what they do with cloning? Moving around cell nucleii into different cells I mean.Yup.
Post by: BFEL on November 20, 2015, 08:21:35 am
I mean, it does the Skyrim thing where you get a new quest roughly every time someone within five miles blinks, and throws distracting combats at you every three steps, but it starts you off with a highly personal plotline that pretty much screams at the emotion centers of your brain to "do this now"
I mean, yeah it loses its urgency after about 5 main quests or so, but that's still a lot of game that any serious roleplayer will be more or less forced to spend doing one specific thing.
Personally I think it would have worked better if they dumped the kid thing and just made your main goal...pretty much the minutemen quests. I mean, they spent all this effort
Don't get me wrong, the plot is technically on the good side, it just isn't good for the game they made.
Post by: Catastrophic lolcats on November 20, 2015, 09:02:54 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on November 20, 2015, 09:47:32 am
1. Independent Route: Piper and Nick want to investigate, you start working with them.
2. Minutemen Route: Institute are a threat to Wasteland stability and progress; they send you to stop the Institute from kidnapping and replacing people or scattering kill-bot synths around.
3. BoS Route: BoS see the Institute as a threat to them and want to wipe them out (include or not the whole synth-genocide thing). They order you to infiltrate and destabilize the Institute.
4. Railroad Route: Railroad people want to help free more synths faster. They ask you to infiltrate as another Railroad contact on the inside.
5. Institute Route: You come in contact with the Institute during one of the above, or possible on your own, and decide to join up with them legitimately to help maintain their supremacy and further their goals.
Each route would have a couple different endings based on how you approached it, and events from the other routes would still occur (albeit in different ways and at different times in the plot) despite your absence.
But instead we got another super-urgent plot stuck inside a slow-paced sandbox.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 20, 2015, 10:32:19 am
Post by: Sirian on November 20, 2015, 10:50:24 am
Speaking about the quest where you meet her :
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
About the main quest, my own roleplay is that I'm convinced that years have passed since the abduction - which I don't actually know for sure so don't spoil me about that - and so there is no actual urgency, rather my character wants to build up his power so that he can succeed in dealing with the issue and provide a secure home for his son. I just ignore him when he tells people that his son is a 1 year old infant.
Post by: Sergius on November 20, 2015, 12:11:36 pm
Anyway, I plugged the formula from the Wiki into some online math chart thingy and got this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(this is for a Weapon Damage of 1. For a weapon damage of 10, just multiply both the Y (Damage) and X (DR) by 10, and so on)
If I understand this properly, up to about 15% of DR there is no effect (so, a dmg 100 weapon vs DR 15 armor or less would ignore armor). Then it quickly climbs to 50% of DR, where it halves damage (same example, dmg 100 vs DR 100 means half damage) with diminishing returns the more armor-to-damage ratio you have. To get down to one-quarter damage, you need over 6 times the armor (so, dmg 100 vs DR 665 or so).
This is without perks on normal I think. Enemies get from double to half damage (after calculation) depending on diff. level.
I'm not sure if this is a good or bad reflection on how real world armor works. For RPG/ish purposes I guess it's alright.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 20, 2015, 12:28:34 pm
Post by: motorbitch on November 20, 2015, 12:50:13 pm
there must be deminishing returns... or either combat armor was useless (with it isnt) or you where invinicble in power armor (with you are not).
still, i dont know what the damage resistance actually is. is the total armor rating of my whole suit sumed up? or is it per body part? is the armor rating i see my damage threshold?
i realy have no idea how it works in this game, but more is obviously better, so that kind of works for me.
Post by: Sergius on November 20, 2015, 12:50:55 pm
Makes sense, honestly. A few scraps of leather and cloth aren't going to stop a rifle round; a full set of future-tech ballistic plate probably will; nothing you can wear will completely mitigate being doused in burning napalm, taking a rocket to the face, or being shot with a coilgun.
Then again, even a dart gun will get a significant % of damage thru wearing a tank. Of course, this doesn't matter much if the damage is low to begin with, it will still be low with armor.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 20, 2015, 01:39:01 pm
Post by: BigD145 on November 20, 2015, 01:50:14 pm
I finally got to the point where you meet "Curie", and I got curious about the voice actor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie_Simone_Cortina), since the french accent seemed fake to me (as a french myself). Turns out she's actually from Venezuela, and although her mother is french and she speaks french fluently, she's also fluent in english (so the accent IS most likely fake).
Speaking about the quest where you meet her :Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I have not noticed that. That's a bit annoying. I just finished that one last night.
Post by: Sergius on November 20, 2015, 01:51:35 pm
Hence the "wear"--power armor in FO4 has crossed the threshold from "suit of armor" to "ultra-light personal vehicle".
I haven't actually played yet, but if PA has its own hit point that gets drained rather than the player HP it makes a lot of sense, most soft wearable armor probably shouldn't give 100% resistance. Player hit points already defy any kind of realistic flesh damaging model, so there's that too.
BTW, the actual "potential damage" that goes into the formula is also affected by weapon range, a lot of peashooters are probably only going to do significant damage at point blank.
Post by: scriver on November 20, 2015, 02:21:30 pm
Post by: motorbitch on November 20, 2015, 02:47:43 pm
Quote
to collect the wastelands biggest stack of radaway.
atomic preacher dudes are total bitches.
Post by: Ultimuh on November 20, 2015, 02:55:07 pm
i had one goal in this game. ONE.Quoteto collect the wastelands biggest stack of radaway.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Disregard this however, if you wish to collect them legit, or is playing the game on a console.
Post by: motorbitch on November 20, 2015, 02:58:43 pm
also, damn. i wanted that line in spoilers for added funsies :/
Post by: Putnam on November 20, 2015, 03:01:03 pm
i had one goal in this game. ONE.Quoteto collect the wastelands biggest stack of radaway.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Disregard this however, if you wish to collect them legit, or is playing the game on a console.
you can omit leading zeroes
Post by: jocan2003 on November 20, 2015, 03:02:23 pm
Cant wait to the geck to come around and add food need/water/sleep and add more god damn weapons!! I mean come on, pipe, laser, plasma with the odd real world counterpart weapon... and thats it... ( im not taking heavy weapon into accounts as they are not really something you go hunting with but more a weapon you use while in your PA.
Post by: Ultimuh on November 20, 2015, 03:02:31 pm
you can omit leading zeroes
True, but I always type them out of habit.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 20, 2015, 03:20:04 pm
Sort of but not really. Each piece of PA (arms, legs, torso, helmet) have their own HP, affected by type, model, and a certain coating mod. They offer massive boosts to all your resistances, above and beyond anything remotely possible with normal armor--a full suit of Heavy Combat armor when totally modded out is still barely equivalent to a single piece of decent PA. When you take damage, the PA also takes damage. When a piece reaches 0 HP it breaks, requiring repair in your garage and denying its benefits.Hence the "wear"--power armor in FO4 has crossed the threshold from "suit of armor" to "ultra-light personal vehicle".
I haven't actually played yet, but if PA has its own hit point that gets drained rather than the player HP it makes a lot of sense, most soft wearable armor probably shouldn't give 100% resistance. Player hit points already defy any kind of realistic flesh damaging model, so there's that too.
BTW, the actual "potential damage" that goes into the formula is also affected by weapon range, a lot of peashooters are probably only going to do significant damage at point blank.
So it's still basically just damage reduction, but it sort of reflects that difference, and fits with the design philosophy they went with where there's a firm distinction between "worn" armor + personal weapons versus PA in terms of how much is needed to maintain it. The Gatling Laser falls into the same "high-maintenance" class; it doesn't break down, but it uses fusion cores as ammunition, the same thing that powers PA.
Problem is, between the relatively common nature of fusion cores, the fast-travel "feature" of not draining energy, and the perk+bobblehead which reduce fusion core drain, it's not really a hassle and you're not going to run out of cores unless you are literally sprinting around the map killing everything with a gatling laser.
Post by: Dostoevsky on November 20, 2015, 03:27:07 pm
For example, in the questline associated with the Salem museum,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on November 20, 2015, 03:48:21 pm
Post by: Sergius on November 20, 2015, 04:50:47 pm
i had one goal in this game. ONE.Quoteto collect the wastelands biggest stack of radaway.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Disregard this however, if you wish to collect them legit, or is playing the game on a console.
you can omit leading zeroes
You can, but it's a good practice with HEX numbers, for that time where your first digit is a letter.
Post by: Kot on November 20, 2015, 05:11:23 pm
I remember the times when I still wrote all those zeroes before f when I wanted me some some Septims.i had one goal in this game. ONE.Quoteto collect the wastelands biggest stack of radaway.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Disregard this however, if you wish to collect them legit, or is playing the game on a console.
you can omit leading zeroes
You can, but it's a good practice with HEX numbers, for that time where your first digit is a letter.
Post by: motorbitch on November 20, 2015, 05:20:12 pm
cmon... china aint fucking nazi germany, and sea captains arent ss officers.
stupid americans. need to bloody propagandize EVERYTHING.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 20, 2015, 05:27:50 pm
so, i just met a chinese capitain, and he is having a skull on his captains hat.This seems really fucking out of line considering you're playing an alternate history where China was a pretty big threat. So sorry you don't agree with the fiction though, feel free to blame all your other problems on a nationality too.
cmon... china aint fucking nazi germany, and sea captains arent ss officers.
stupid americans. need to bloody propagandize EVERYTHING.
Post by: Kot on November 20, 2015, 05:30:40 pm
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on November 20, 2015, 05:32:45 pm
Post by: MorleyDev on November 20, 2015, 05:46:11 pm
Couple that with survival difficulty seems to keep some challenge. Most enemies can still wreck me if caught unaware (Level 20 and I've still died to Bloatflies!).
Personally I think the Open World RPG plot should take more queues from Morrowind's opening. None of that cinematic crap, it just went "Here's some money and a dagger, if you want to Main Quest go talk to this guy" and when you talked to him he was just all "No seriously you're still level one, go explore the world for a bit!". More Open World games should do that, have discrete "Go immerse yourself in the world, come back when you're ready" points in the Main Quest to encourage you to explore.
Fallout 1 and 2 had similar "We need to find a thing" plots, but the 'thing' was an actual thing where you didn't really have any solid leads or quest markers to go by, so it would encourage lots of exploration and questing. Fallout 3 and 4 have the problem of the 'thing' being a person to try and force the players to feel a personal connection, but that connection is detrimental to the whole "explore the world" part of the games.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on November 20, 2015, 05:47:45 pm
Sorry, but this gets on my nerves...
Post by: MorleyDev on November 20, 2015, 05:50:23 pm
Why, why, does everyone not know discreet v. discrete?
Sorry, but this gets on my nerves...
discrete: individually separate and distinct. That's what I meant, separate and distinct points in the quest where it gets put on hold to allow you to explore, not "discreet: intentionally unobtrusive". Though I guess those moments could be both if well-done :)
Post by: Flying Dice on November 20, 2015, 05:52:18 pm
You wouldn't want those points to be discreet, or all the idiots would miss them and complain about the plot moving too fast.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on November 20, 2015, 05:57:30 pm
Oh, I see.Why, why, does everyone not know discreet v. discrete?
Sorry, but this gets on my nerves...
discrete: individually separate and distinct. That's what I meant, separate and distinct points in the quest where it gets put on hold to allow you to explore, not "discreet: intentionally unobtrusive". Though I guess those moments could be both if well-done :)
Sorry, I've just seen too many people using it wrong to actually catch someone using it right. ;P
Post by: MarcAFK on November 20, 2015, 06:02:14 pm
Post by: BigD145 on November 20, 2015, 06:05:37 pm
Post by: BFEL on November 20, 2015, 07:49:19 pm
Also, I decided to murderize the Institute on my first trip. That gave me like 5 levels.
I...might go on more rampages now :P
Post by: Virtz on November 20, 2015, 07:50:47 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: BFEL on November 20, 2015, 09:37:21 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on November 20, 2015, 10:05:21 pm
Post by: BFEL on November 20, 2015, 10:17:12 pm
All the factions are shitty in their own way, and you can join them, but you can't try to tell them to be less shitty?Pretty much.
The primary conflict of the game basically relies ENTIRELY on everyone involved having absolutely zero give in what they think.
Its the kind of thing that could probably be solved in about 10 minutes by sitting down and having a conversation in RL, but in vidyaland it can only be solved by choosing the least shitty of the diarrhea brigade and dumping on everyone else.
Post by: Sergius on November 20, 2015, 10:24:40 pm
I was just attacked by a deathclaw mid conversation. FUCKING LIZARD. Just listening to what Danse has to say and then "DONG. DONG. DONGK AGH"
https://youtu.be/jLfIC9njdfU
Post by: Sensei on November 20, 2015, 11:02:19 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on November 20, 2015, 11:05:16 pm
This? This is another perfect example of why dialogue that doesn't lock you into a freezeframe and menu is more interesting and dynamic.I was just attacked by a deathclaw mid conversation. FUCKING LIZARD. Just listening to what Danse has to say and then "DONG. DONG. DONGK AGH"
https://youtu.be/jLfIC9njdfU
Post by: Aseaheru on November 20, 2015, 11:41:11 pm
So, is there a way to sell power armor frames? I've been taking them back to my village every time I find one, and now I have more than I could possibly need (namely one for me and one for a partner) unless I want to start turning all my settlers into space marines.
Do what I do and make different ones for different situations.
Currently I have two decked out that way, one for when Im gonna chew on lasers and one for combat and talking.
Post by: Gabeux on November 21, 2015, 01:53:13 am
Spoiler: Ending review (click to show/hide)
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 21, 2015, 02:40:55 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Astral on November 21, 2015, 03:30:51 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Majestic7 on November 21, 2015, 03:39:24 am
So yeah, hopefully Obsidian gets to make Fallout: Seattle or something which will the Fallout with an actual plot.
Post by: MorleyDev on November 21, 2015, 06:11:01 am
Meanwhile Fallout 1, 2 and NV tell you the impact you've had on the wastes. 2 even let you have both worlds, still explore the wastes whilst telling you the future impacts, but it did have flaws (You can derail the predictions after all).
I don't think Bethesda's writers ever truly groked the why of that, so they stay with what's familiar.
Post by: motorbitch on November 21, 2015, 07:20:12 am
Not yet. But given that they can be bought from vendors as an abstracted item, I imagine that'll be modded in soon.i very much want the same for hacking and lock picking.This? This is another perfect example of why dialogue that doesn't lock you into a freezeframe and menu is more interesting and dynamic.I was just attacked by a deathclaw mid conversation. FUCKING LIZARD. Just listening to what Danse has to say and then "DONG. DONG. DONGK AGH"
https://youtu.be/jLfIC9njdfU
hey everyone, can we stop killing each other for a second? i have to loot some stuffs.
Post by: BFEL on November 21, 2015, 08:57:08 am
Its even more egregious if you do the loot pause on a corpse WHILE JUMPING/FALLING. "Yo gravity? Couldja let up so I can strip this corpse naked?"Not yet. But given that they can be bought from vendors as an abstracted item, I imagine that'll be modded in soon.i very much want the same for hacking and lock picking.This? This is another perfect example of why dialogue that doesn't lock you into a freezeframe and menu is more interesting and dynamic.I was just attacked by a deathclaw mid conversation. FUCKING LIZARD. Just listening to what Danse has to say and then "DONG. DONG. DONGK AGH"
https://youtu.be/jLfIC9njdfU
hey everyone, can we stop killing each other for a second? i have to loot some stuffs.
Post by: scriver on November 21, 2015, 09:06:18 am
Post by: Rolan7 on November 21, 2015, 09:15:15 am
Lockpicking without pausing was really cool in the original Thief games. You actually had to wait until guards were away before picking, because it took a while and made noise. The minigame itself was cool for the time, but I actually like Bethesda's current one more. (Hated Oblivion's, maybe just because I was bad at it).
But another thing was that picking progress was saved, which didn't even make sense in Thief since you pull your tools out. In FO4 it would just mean *not* resetting the sweet-spot location every time you exit, which would be easy.
Post by: miauw62 on November 21, 2015, 09:17:17 am
Post by: BigD145 on November 21, 2015, 10:01:39 am
Post by: Aseaheru on November 21, 2015, 11:29:08 am
Post by: Rolan7 on November 21, 2015, 11:50:53 am
You'd think hopping on a skeleton until it stops generating free energy would break immersion a little, but I've played enough Bethesda games that it fits neatly into gameplay/story segregation for me.
Also that screenshot someone shared where some silo entrance is mostly clipped into a hillside and couldn't possibly be opened...
But yeah, the intentionally placed objects often do tell interesting stories, and well.
Post by: Gabeux on November 21, 2015, 01:05:55 pm
It felt rushed. Even though the quests leading up to the ending felt way more cohesive than FO3 and maybe FO:NV, it fell too much off of what one would expect from a Fallout ending.
I can ignore the fact that you are forced into stuff and have no control over it - even though you can gather and build up the whole Commonwealth - but this felt like a generic ending.
Then again, I might be just mad because they didn't provide a longer ending sequence. It's also extremely sad/bad/weird/disappointing (pick one) that:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh well, guess I'm gonna have to carry that weight.
E: Also, forgot to mention:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on November 21, 2015, 01:40:08 pm
Cue "You don't look much like a soldier to me."
Spoiler: MFW (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: u wot m8 (click to show/hide)
So yeah. Bethesda. Not so good with context-sensitive dialogue.
Post by: Gabeux on November 21, 2015, 01:49:38 pm
Post by: Wiles on November 21, 2015, 01:51:28 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on November 21, 2015, 01:56:20 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 21, 2015, 01:58:10 pm
Bethesda object placement tends to tell better stories than the main player story. The houses have their own stories. Bathtub has a skeleton in it, which also happens to have a toaster and fork in with them. There's a teddy bear party set up by supermutants. Man and woman skeletons in wheelchairs sit next to a small lake, watching the sunrise. All the map locations have fairly tidy stories to them.
Have you found the
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, the terminal about the baseball team that hadn't won in over 150 years made me laugh.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 21, 2015, 02:22:13 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 21, 2015, 02:31:01 pm
Knowing that Elder Maxson is not an essential NPC... it fills you with determination.
Really!? Damn. Then killing him stealthly or with Sandman perk should really allow us to remove him without going to war with the Brotherhood. That'd be nice.
Post by: BigD145 on November 21, 2015, 02:47:05 pm
Bethesda object placement tends to tell better stories than the main player story. The houses have their own stories. Bathtub has a skeleton in it, which also happens to have a toaster and fork in with them. There's a teddy bear party set up by supermutants. Man and woman skeletons in wheelchairs sit next to a small lake, watching the sunrise. All the map locations have fairly tidy stories to them.
Have you found theSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, the terminal about the baseball team that hadn't won in over 150 years made me laugh.
Yeah, that one is okay.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rolan7 on November 21, 2015, 02:59:24 pm
Also one time I cancelled out of VATS just as the stranger appeared... He didn't take the killshot, I think I hurt his feelings ):
Post by: BFEL on November 21, 2015, 03:17:44 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 21, 2015, 03:29:57 pm
To be fair, you don't look like a SOLDIER. You look more like an AVATAR OF DEATH.
The BOS discriminates against avatars of death.
Post by: Gabeux on November 21, 2015, 03:37:02 pm
The best line is probably:
- Why are you here?
- [Sarcastic] Uh..I'm here to pick up an order. Two large pepperoni and a calzone. Name is "Fuck You".
Post by: Flying Dice on November 21, 2015, 04:15:25 pm
To be fair, you don't look like a SOLDIER. You look more like an AVATAR OF DEATH.
The BOS discriminates against avatars of death.
I just want the Commonwealth to be a safe space!
#triggered #noliterallyipulledthetrigger
Post by: Virtz on November 21, 2015, 05:07:57 pm
I'm not sure how people can have a problem with the writing here and look back at FO3 as a positive example. Unless they miss the goofyness, I guess.
Now, if I put together everything correctly (since I couldn't really just ask anyone directly about these things), the true villain of the story is
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Think I'll replay it with a melee build, see how viable that is since I spent most of the game creeping around and shooting headshots.
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 21, 2015, 05:14:13 pm
Post by: motorbitch on November 21, 2015, 05:45:04 pm
during the quest, you have to herd 3 lobotomized npc through narrow tunnels.
two times i had to reload an early save because one of them got stuck, once i got killed because i was surrounded by the friendly npc, unable to move or hit the hostile npc.
once the final "door" did not open.
the final conversation was not triggerd, giving me no choice how to end the quest.
the legendary weapon did not drop.
after finishing the quest, the questgiver went hostile.
so noone say again this isnt the spirit of fallout here. quests broken like the classics, 10/10, would pirate next time.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on November 21, 2015, 06:13:01 pm
I've finished it at level 50.
I'm not sure how people can have a problem with the writing here and look back at FO3 as a positive example. Unless they miss the goofyness, I guess.
Now, if I put together everything correctly (since I couldn't really just ask anyone directly about these things), the true villain of the story isSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Think I'll replay it with a melee build, see how viable that is since I spent most of the game creeping around and shooting headshots.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: BFEL on November 21, 2015, 06:25:56 pm
Post by: sambojin on November 21, 2015, 06:27:10 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on November 21, 2015, 06:27:51 pm
I would say the true villain of the story is mankind in general. And more specifically, the inability of those with strong beliefs to accept anything other then total destruction of those who don't share those beliefs.
insert quote about war here
Post by: ShoesandHats on November 21, 2015, 06:30:58 pm
I would say the true villain of the story is mankind in general. And more specifically, the inability of those with strong beliefs to accept anything other then total destruction of those who don't share those beliefs.
Or the inability of the writers to make an ending involving any sort of compromise between factions.
I really like the game, and I like the story better than the one in Fallout 3, but Bethesda still hasn't really come into their own when it comes to writing plots. Or dialogue.
Post by: motorbitch on November 21, 2015, 07:07:06 pm
wearing my x-01 and some serious firepower, i stumble in some complex, 4 duders went all aggro on me. i take one down with one headshot - the other 3 panic and flee, try to hide.
thats something i always thoguth leaking in the ai of games: agressive npc showing fear and trying to disengage if at a servere disadvantage. havnt realy seen this done well before.
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 21, 2015, 07:08:25 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 21, 2015, 07:29:49 pm
I've finished it at level 50.
I'm not sure how people can have a problem with the writing here and look back at FO3 as a positive example. Unless they miss the goofyness, I guess.
Now, if I put together everything correctly (since I couldn't really just ask anyone directly about these things), the true villain of the story isSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Think I'll replay it with a melee build, see how viable that is since I spent most of the game creeping around and shooting headshots.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on November 21, 2015, 07:35:52 pm
That's why Obsidian really needs to get that sequel to New Vegas in gear...Christ, no. Get them to team up with Bethesda. Bethesda does everything except the writing for quests, characters, the main plot, &c., which is handled by Obsidian. New Vegas was far buggier and more unreliable than FO3 (at least in my experience), and Bethesda have evidently made strides on that front.
Post by: Gabeux on November 21, 2015, 07:53:58 pm
- Open the console and target (click) your settlement's Workshop.
- Enter "getav WorkshopRatingHappinessTarget".
- This is the value your happiness will reach after the 'ticks' happen. I'm not sure how long it takes to refresh, and it didn't seem like sleeping or waiting affected it, but happiness seem to grow little by little, like 5 every 'tick'. You want this target to be 100.
This command helps because you can know exactly how much happiness your settlement has potential to achieve. Then you can make changes, and wait for the ticks.
This also helps if you want to experiment how much you lose/gain happiness based on how many stores you have, how much resource production affects happiness, if placing decoration affects happiness at all, how much killing settlers affect potential happiness, and all that sort of stuff.
I decided to find a way to discover how much actual happiness my settlement had and what affected it after I spent too much time with 98 happiness. That frustrated me too much. :P
Turns out a crap-load of stores really do the job. It still took a lot of caps and resources to make it, though.
Post by: redwallzyl on November 21, 2015, 08:04:25 pm
it was mainly buggy because it was rushed and they also had to cut big parts of their plans. its an unfair label that they have been strapped with. pillars of eternity wasn't plagued with bugs.That's why Obsidian really needs to get that sequel to New Vegas in gear...Christ, no. Get them to team up with Bethesda. Bethesda does everything except the writing for quests, characters, the main plot, &c., which is handled by Obsidian. New Vegas was far buggier and more unreliable than FO3 (at least in my experience), and Bethesda have evidently made strides on that front.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 21, 2015, 08:11:04 pm
Probably an oversight, since bracketed *long* barrels require slightly more resources than non-bracketed ones.
Edit: Wait what, they actually require LESS glass and circuitry! And one more adhesive... So strange, since again, they seem to be a straight upgrade. And we can literally grow adhesive.
So of course this Assassin's laser musket I'm modding doesn't have brackets, so I have to reforge the barrel anyway :P ... I think I'll make it long while I'm at it. I heard laser muskets can make very deadly sniper weapons, and with +50% against human enemies, it may be a bit OP. At least for one shot!
@Gabeux
That's good to know... I've mostly been neglecting my settlements, building the bare minimums and leaving. But I've never been good at making constructions pretty (in Minecraft modpacks, mostly). Just space-optimized (;
Post by: Virtz on November 21, 2015, 08:40:35 pm
I've finished it at level 50.
I'm not sure how people can have a problem with the writing here and look back at FO3 as a positive example. Unless they miss the goofyness, I guess.
Now, if I put together everything correctly (since I couldn't really just ask anyone directly about these things), the true villain of the story isSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Think I'll replay it with a melee build, see how viable that is since I spent most of the game creeping around and shooting headshots.Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: ShoesandHats on November 21, 2015, 09:00:22 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gabeux on November 21, 2015, 09:05:14 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Danse and Deacon's Backstory (click to show/hide)
I still have to process everything, though, as it was quite a lot.
E:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Frumple on November 21, 2015, 09:10:14 pm
I'd also say the BoS is right to fear synths. Having entities that can infiltrate you with minimal chance of detection and are easy to program to think or do anything (to a point where a bunch of sewer-dwelling morons were able to do it) sounds incredibly dangerous. Like do you imagine something like that existing in the real world without legal regulations?We have those, actually. They're this thing we call "people" :P
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 21, 2015, 09:14:22 pm
Post by: Virtz on November 21, 2015, 09:44:43 pm
Yeah, all those undetectable programmed people out there that suddenly just replace other people without a trace.I'd also say the BoS is right to fear synths. Having entities that can infiltrate you with minimal chance of detection and are easy to program to think or do anything (to a point where a bunch of sewer-dwelling morons were able to do it) sounds incredibly dangerous. Like do you imagine something like that existing in the real world without legal regulations?We have those, actually. They're this thing we call "people" :P
Post by: Rolan7 on November 21, 2015, 09:59:28 pm
Spoiler: Blimp (click to show/hide)
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 21, 2015, 10:18:12 pm
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on November 21, 2015, 11:11:33 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 22, 2015, 12:08:00 am
I'm pretty sure the only reason they didn't kill him is because, one he's with you and Bethesda probably felt that wouldn't end well for that storyline, and two he openly a synth and isn't trying to infiltrate and replace people.
It would still be interesting to see a Bethesda game where racism/specism/technophobia has more of an effect than just what NPCs say.
Post by: alway on November 22, 2015, 12:17:40 am
Then I tried to screenshot it and photobombed myself. Protip: don't use alt+printscreen to try taking screenshots in a game which binds 'holding alt' to 'throw grenade' action. Literal photobomb.
Post by: Tack on November 22, 2015, 08:58:06 am
Power armor isn't airtight. Whilst it feels really cool clomping around the ocean floor- you are actually holding your breath there.
So... Don't stay down too long. Or get the perk.
Post by: Cyroth on November 22, 2015, 09:16:58 am
So in one of the bathrooms inside a building, I found a teddy sitting on the toilet, with glasses on its face, and holding a newspaper open in front of it like it was reading. Twas great.
Then I tried to screenshot it and photobombed myself. Protip: don't use alt+printscreen to try taking screenshots in a game which binds 'holding alt' to 'throw grenade' action. Literal photobomb.
When it comes to teddies nothing beats the two I found humping, surrounded by various bottles of booze. I laughed way too hard when I found them.
Also I found a female skeleton sitting on the toilet in an outhouse, with a paddle in her hand and a male skeleton drapped in a butt-upwards position over her lap. Quite hilarious.
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on November 22, 2015, 09:20:25 am
I'm pretty sure the only reason they didn't kill him is because, one he's with you and Bethesda probably felt that wouldn't end well for that storyline, and two he openly a synth and isn't trying to infiltrate and replace people.
It would still be interesting to see a Bethesda game where racism/specism/technophobia has more of an effect than just what NPCs say.
It would be, sure we do see a little bit like Tenpenny's tower or goodneighboor but it would be nice if you know the 200+ year old survivor reacted differently to seeing his first none feral ghoul instead of just... nothing.
Post by: Tack on November 22, 2015, 09:28:16 am
If I was a man out of time, and I came across Daisy, hell I'd be weeping. Screw racism.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 22, 2015, 09:29:21 am
On the same list of "little mistakes".Just get the perk that lets you breathe underwater somehow
Power armor isn't airtight. Whilst it feels really cool clomping around the ocean floor- you are actually holding your breath there.
So... Don't stay down too long. Or get the perk.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 22, 2015, 09:39:53 am
It was just weird because my first settler was a ghoul, heck the first non-robot I met after leaving the vault.
Would probably work better if he hung out near Sanctuary and was hard to miss, and maybe that dialogue option didn't appear if the PC has met a ghoul already. Well, it'd have to be *different* not gone... The dialogue system is still ridiculous.
On that note, I really need to learn to use 1,2,3,4 for the dialogue options instead of reaching to the arrow keys. I kept trying to trade with Dogmeat, who loves to run around at random because he's a delightful little scamp. But that's a problem when I need to track him with my mouse, then also hit an arrow key (which I naturally use the same hand for).
It was kinda cute though, like a dog playing keep-away with my loot. Accidentally realistic.
... Haha, I just looked up the number bindings: "1 is Up, 2 is Left, 3 is Right and 4 is Down"
why?? XD
Emphasis added :POn the same list of "little mistakes".Just get the perk that lets you breathe underwater somehow
Power armor isn't airtight. Whilst it feels really cool clomping around the ocean floor- you are actually holding your breath there.
So... Don't stay down too long. Or get the perk.
Though I assumed the power armor is water tight, it just doesn't have a dedicated air supply, so you only get a minute or two of air from what's trapped in there with you.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 22, 2015, 09:45:57 am
It would be nice to have a few upgrades for underwater activities on the power armor, like turbines that let it actually swim. But there really isn't much down there so I guess it would be a bit of a waste.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 22, 2015, 09:56:22 am
Post by: Flying Dice on November 22, 2015, 09:57:23 am
Post by: Tack on November 22, 2015, 10:12:16 am
Post by: BFEL on November 22, 2015, 10:43:14 am
If infiltration couldn't be done by humanity, we wouldn't have the concept of it to put into games.Yeah, all those undetectable programmed people out there that suddenly just replace other people without a trace.I'd also say the BoS is right to fear synths. Having entities that can infiltrate you with minimal chance of detection and are easy to program to think or do anything (to a point where a bunch of sewer-dwelling morons were able to do it) sounds incredibly dangerous. Like do you imagine something like that existing in the real world without legal regulations?We have those, actually. They're this thing we call "people" :P
And since this game takes place in a universe where any human can get perfect plastic surgery at roughly a moments notice (Deacon for example claims to change his face every month or so) its far from impossible to do without resorting to synths.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on November 22, 2015, 10:58:37 am
Does the jet pack work underwater?Nope. If it's really shallow and you're not totally submerged, you can jump and trigger the jetpack, but once you're fully into the abyss you can't use it.
Post by: scriver on November 22, 2015, 11:05:46 am
... Haha, I just looked up the number bindings: "1 is Up, 2 is Left, 3 is Right and 4 is Down"
why?? XD
Top down, left to right.
Code: [Select]
1
2 3
4 Makes perfect sense to me. No different than reading any other text in English.
Post by: BigD145 on November 22, 2015, 11:28:49 am
... Haha, I just looked up the number bindings: "1 is Up, 2 is Left, 3 is Right and 4 is Down"
why?? XD
Top down, left to right.Code: [Select]1
2 3
4
Makes perfect sense to me. No different than reading any other text in English.
It's obviously not a radial menu. ::)
Post by: Sartain on November 22, 2015, 11:32:03 am
so, i did the quest the big digg.
during the quest, you have to herd 3 lobotomized npc through narrow tunnels.
two times i had to reload an early save because one of them got stuck, once i got killed because i was surrounded by the friendly npc, unable to move or hit the hostile npc.
once the final "door" did not open.
the final conversation was not triggerd, giving me no choice how to end the quest.
the legendary weapon did not drop.
after finishing the quest, the questgiver went hostile.
so noone say again this isnt the spirit of fallout here. quests broken like the classics, 10/10, would pirate next time.
The herding part of that mission is even more fun if you're wearing power armor while doing it and bring a companion who is also wearing power armor...
Post by: Rolan7 on November 22, 2015, 11:36:45 am
Makes perfect sense to me. No different than reading any other text in English.Yeah okay I see it now... I was expecting it to be clockwise.
I guess that order's not bad. Given that they're mapping numbers to directions like that in the first place, which is entirely unnecessary. It's a console thing which should have been changed in the PC version. But as usual, modders will design a proper PC UI for them.
Post by: motorbitch on November 22, 2015, 11:37:27 am
however, using the reshade framework with lumasharpen of 2.0 can vastly reduce this.
a good guide how to set this up can be found here (http://www.tweakguides.com/Fallout4_1.html)
oh, and if you are at it, and you think that the game is genally is to bright and to green, add HSV to the pipeline, with fColoriINtensityMod -0.04 and FsaturationModGreen -0.05
red will be red, and your gun metall will no longer be ghoulmetal.
it also will make you turn on your headlight sometimes.
Post by: Virtz on November 22, 2015, 11:40:25 am
They can't change their memories and personality, tho. The problem with synths is their infiltration can be perfect with no means of detecting it. No psychological signs, no physical signs (unless somebody goes randomly poking around a person's insides to make sure they're not a synth), not even the awareness of being a synth. Human wise it'd be the equivalent of Babylon 5 psychics (heavily regulated and distrusted on that show, btw.). And that's not a thing that exists in the Fallout universe.If infiltration couldn't be done by humanity, we wouldn't have the concept of it to put into games.Yeah, all those undetectable programmed people out there that suddenly just replace other people without a trace.I'd also say the BoS is right to fear synths. Having entities that can infiltrate you with minimal chance of detection and are easy to program to think or do anything (to a point where a bunch of sewer-dwelling morons were able to do it) sounds incredibly dangerous. Like do you imagine something like that existing in the real world without legal regulations?We have those, actually. They're this thing we call "people" :P
And since this game takes place in a universe where any human can get perfect plastic surgery at roughly a moments notice (Deacon for example claims to change his face every month or so) its far from impossible to do without resorting to synths.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
They already have (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/1235/?).Makes perfect sense to me. No different than reading any other text in English.Yeah okay I see it now... I was expecting it to be clockwise.
I guess that order's not bad. Given that they're mapping numbers to directions like that in the first place, which is entirely unnecessary. It's a console thing which should have been changed in the PC version. But as usual, modders will design a proper PC UI for them.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 22, 2015, 12:28:27 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gabeux on November 22, 2015, 02:16:34 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: sprinkled chariot on November 22, 2015, 02:44:12 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Danse and Deacon's Backstory (click to show/hide)
I still have to process everything, though, as it was quite a lot.
E:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gabeux on November 22, 2015, 02:54:26 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 22, 2015, 03:04:08 pm
So I got a-thinkin', due to the title, about how much fun mods are gonna be. WH40K power armor. Hohboy.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 22, 2015, 03:07:57 pm
Post by: BigD145 on November 22, 2015, 03:34:22 pm
So I got a-thinkin', due to the title, about how much fun mods are gonna be. WH40K power armor. Hohboy.
No, we obviously need this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on November 22, 2015, 04:04:08 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 22, 2015, 04:19:34 pm
What even is that?So I got a-thinkin', due to the title, about how much fun mods are gonna be. WH40K power armor. Hohboy.
No, we obviously need this:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: BFEL on November 22, 2015, 04:21:16 pm
What even is that?So I got a-thinkin', due to the title, about how much fun mods are gonna be. WH40K power armor. Hohboy.
No, we obviously need this:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: TheBiggerFish on November 22, 2015, 04:38:05 pm
What even is that?So I got a-thinkin', due to the title, about how much fun mods are gonna be. WH40K power armor. Hohboy.
No, we obviously need this:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 22, 2015, 04:39:49 pm
What even is that?So I got a-thinkin', due to the title, about how much fun mods are gonna be. WH40K power armor. Hohboy.
No, we obviously need this:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kot on November 22, 2015, 05:46:54 pm
What even is that?So I got a-thinkin', due to the title, about how much fun mods are gonna be. WH40K power armor. Hohboy.
No, we obviously need this:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 22, 2015, 05:54:14 pm
What even is that?So I got a-thinkin', due to the title, about how much fun mods are gonna be. WH40K power armor. Hohboy.
No, we obviously need this:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gabeux on November 22, 2015, 05:55:46 pm
What even is that?So I got a-thinkin', due to the title, about how much fun mods are gonna be. WH40K power armor. Hohboy.
No, we obviously need this:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Sentient boobs.
C-C-C-Combo breaker!!
Post by: crazyabe on November 22, 2015, 05:56:21 pm
A Quote Pyramid Obviously!What even is that?So I got a-thinkin', due to the title, about how much fun mods are gonna be. WH40K power armor. Hohboy.
No, we obviously need this:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: TheBiggerFish on November 22, 2015, 05:58:11 pm
Gabeux, the only sad thing is that it makes some sort of sense.
Post by: BigD145 on November 22, 2015, 07:16:06 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 22, 2015, 07:44:09 pm
But who am I kidding..
Post by: BigD145 on November 22, 2015, 08:22:08 pm
We just need this but with nukes.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: MaximumZero on November 22, 2015, 08:25:06 pm
Stomping through the wasteland in power armor to Five Finger Death Punch is pretty satisfying.
Post by: Aseaheru on November 22, 2015, 10:32:21 pm
First up, one of the bigger quests that Preston gives you requires you to wander to the other side of the map. When they give this quest to you its after, what, an hour and a half of gameplay?
Secondly, Vertibirds. There are a number of bits to this one.
-They dont do anything when they come in except land.
-They sometimes dump you right back out, which when you are getting chased by a supermutant with a minigun is not fun.
-It works exactly like a slower form of fast travel. Which makes me ask why they even bothered leaving that minigun in.
And, thirdly, quest repeats. Help out the Abernathies early on? Just get your fancy stone house decrabbed? Guess what! You get to do the Abernathy stuff again, with so little dialogue it hurts!
Post by: JimboM12 on November 22, 2015, 10:39:12 pm
All so I can just call down artillery anywhere on the map.
Post by: Rose on November 22, 2015, 11:13:05 pm
Just a heads up: If I'm playing Fallout and you can see me on Steam, I'm broadcasting. I don't know how other stuff affects that, though, as I usually listen to music in the background when I play.
Stomping through the wasteland in power armor to Five Finger Death Punch is pretty satisfying.
You say that, and then you don't give a stream link.
Post by: MaximumZero on November 22, 2015, 11:17:53 pm
I didn't realize that was necessary. I have my settings set to "Friends can watch my games."Just a heads up: If I'm playing Fallout and you can see me on Steam, I'm broadcasting. I don't know how other stuff affects that, though, as I usually listen to music in the background when I play.
Stomping through the wasteland in power armor to Five Finger Death Punch is pretty satisfying.
You say that, and then you don't give a stream link.
Edit: Found it. Here you go (http://steamcommunity.com/broadcast/watch/76561198043791538/)!
Post by: redwallzyl on November 22, 2015, 11:32:21 pm
Post by: Rose on November 22, 2015, 11:35:31 pm
Oh, I didn't realize that was a thing.I didn't realize that was necessary. I have my settings set to "Friends can watch my games."Just a heads up: If I'm playing Fallout and you can see me on Steam, I'm broadcasting. I don't know how other stuff affects that, though, as I usually listen to music in the background when I play.
Stomping through the wasteland in power armor to Five Finger Death Punch is pretty satisfying.
You say that, and then you don't give a stream link.
Edit: Found it. Here you go (http://steamcommunity.com/broadcast/watch/76561198043791538/)!
Post by: JimboM12 on November 23, 2015, 12:27:24 am
Post by: Egan_BW on November 23, 2015, 12:28:28 am
Post by: MaximumZero on November 23, 2015, 12:28:39 am
Post by: Egan_BW on November 23, 2015, 12:30:07 am
Post by: Gabeux on November 23, 2015, 12:52:12 am
And where I found it was a weird surprise..it made me feel sad, actually.
Spoiler: Not revealing the location, but.. (click to show/hide)
Post by: umiman on November 23, 2015, 01:14:18 am
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on November 23, 2015, 01:21:09 am
There's a sacrificial dagger that's pretty Skyrim-ly. Maybe with upgrades it can be one of the best melee weapons in the game, as it also inflicts bleeding. If the bleeding stacks, then it's very op.Unfortunantly, it can't be upgraded, upgrading the blade only replaces the piece that gives it its stats.
And where I found it was a weird surprise..it made me feel sad, actually.Spoiler: Not revealing the location, but.. (click to show/hide)
Post by: MaximumZero on November 23, 2015, 01:32:36 am
I never knew how much I wanted a giant sword to go with the power armor until now.A giant flaming, electrified, spiked chainsword. Feral ghouls are heretic scum and must be purged!
Post by: BFEL on November 23, 2015, 03:01:39 am
I never knew how much I wanted a giant sword to go with the power armor until now.A giant flaming, electrified, spiked chainsword CARRYING ITS OWN BABY FLAMING ELECTRIC SPIKESWORD Feral ghouls are heretic scum and must be purged!
Post by: Yoink on November 23, 2015, 03:59:43 am
Murdered some little girl's father in front of her when he strenuously objected to me stealing stuff from their campsite. Walked over to where she ran off to, my spiked knuckles still coated with the guy's blood, talked to her and the voice actor says a cheerful, "Hi, sweetie!"
That was unnerving.
Post by: Ultimuh on November 23, 2015, 04:02:28 am
Murdered some little girl's father in front of her
my spiked knuckles still coated with the guy's blood
There's your problem. :V
Post by: Gabeux on November 23, 2015, 04:41:54 am
"We have a Ghoul problem" - points you to some building on the other side of the map.
"Super Mutants are stealing our crops" - another camp in the middle of the map.
"My wife has been kidnapped" - other corner of the map.
I just ditched those missions. They are the equivalent to Spore's ecological disasters before they patched it to make it less stupid.
Or The Sims 4 bug which if you had a male scientist character they'd get raped by the aliens as soon as they had the previous alien children.
I still don't understand why they thought constant meaningless busywork missions was a good idea. They have time constraints, too.
You build an army of protectors of the land but nobody can take a god damn rifle and kill the Bloatflies that are scaring the shit out of the Albernathies so much.
So many small annoyances yet I loved playing it all, go figure. :P
Post by: Flying Dice on November 23, 2015, 05:15:51 am
Post by: Virtz on November 23, 2015, 06:25:43 am
"Really, dude? Raiders from all the way over in the city are giving you grief on the outskirts? Ok, whatever."
I'm guessing they didn't want the radiant missions to repeat too much.
But then the Brotherhood provisions radiant mission kept pointing me to the same one farmer for supplies.
Post by: scriver on November 23, 2015, 06:33:29 am
Post by: Flying Dice on November 23, 2015, 06:45:27 am
Post by: Mattk50 on November 23, 2015, 07:54:45 am
On the same list of "little mistakes".Mireluke cake lets you breath underwater, no need to waste a perk on something youll nearly never use.
Power armor isn't airtight. Whilst it feels really cool clomping around the ocean floor- you are actually holding your breath there.
So... Don't stay down too long. Or get the perk.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 23, 2015, 08:14:31 am
Post by: motorbitch on November 23, 2015, 08:35:29 am
On the same list of "little mistakes".
Power armor isn't airtight. Whilst it feels really cool clomping around the ocean floor- you are actually holding your breath there.
So... Don't stay down too long. Or get the perk.
yeah it is. it even has pressured air bottles on the back of the armor and tubes going to the helmet.
it just doesnt have unlimited air supply.
regarding the random missions:
damn till i figured they out they kept me from doing ANYTHING useful :/
great for leveling up tho.
anyway, the trick seems to be to finish them, but never turn them in. that will both stop them from failing and from trigering a new one.
Post by: BFEL on November 23, 2015, 10:01:28 am
So, uh. If you need something dead yesterday, full-auto plasma does the trick. Burned through a Deathclaw Matriarch in about three or four seconds.I use the alien blaster for the same purposes.
Anyway, I came here because I just saw a loading tip that informed me "When the Institute released its first batch of synths, they tried to work with people in the commonwealth, but mutual mistrust ended that relationship quickly"
THIS IS THE ONLY TIME THIS IS EVER HINTED AT. A RANDOM LOADING TIP.
Post by: BigD145 on November 23, 2015, 10:10:23 am
So, uh. If you need something dead yesterday, full-auto plasma does the trick. Burned through a Deathclaw Matriarch in about three or four seconds.I use the alien blaster for the same purposes.
Anyway, I came here because I just saw a loading tip that informed me "When the Institute released its first batch of synths, they tried to work with people in the commonwealth, but mutual mistrust ended that relationship quickly"
THIS IS THE ONLY TIME THIS IS EVER HINTED AT. A RANDOM LOADING TIP.
AMERICA IS RACIST
I thought everyone knew this?
Post by: miauw62 on November 23, 2015, 10:46:52 am
You'd think that ghouls are mutants, not heretics.I never knew how much I wanted a giant sword to go with the power armor until now.A giant flaming, electrified, spiked chainsword. Feral ghouls are heretic scum and must be purged!
Sure, you have supermutants, but those are more like chaos marines.
Post by: Virtz on November 23, 2015, 10:54:26 am
How is that racism?So, uh. If you need something dead yesterday, full-auto plasma does the trick. Burned through a Deathclaw Matriarch in about three or four seconds.I use the alien blaster for the same purposes.
Anyway, I came here because I just saw a loading tip that informed me "When the Institute released its first batch of synths, they tried to work with people in the commonwealth, but mutual mistrust ended that relationship quickly"
THIS IS THE ONLY TIME THIS IS EVER HINTED AT. A RANDOM LOADING TIP.
AMERICA IS RACIST
I thought everyone knew this?
Post by: JimboM12 on November 23, 2015, 10:54:58 am
You'd think that ghouls are mutants, not heretics.I never knew how much I wanted a giant sword to go with the power armor until now.A giant flaming, electrified, spiked chainsword. Feral ghouls are heretic scum and must be purged!
Sure, you have supermutants, but those are more like chaos marines.
You mean Orks. BoS is SPESS MERHENS. Minutemen are the Imperial Guard. Institute are some odd combo of the Tau and the Mechanicus. Raiders are chaos cultists.
Purge the Mutant, Clense the Heretic, Kill the Alien.
*Edit, wrong order of purge-killing.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 23, 2015, 10:57:44 am
Post by: Knave on November 23, 2015, 11:37:03 am
I have one guy I call Rusty. He guards the gate of Sanctuary and wears a captain's hat.
Post by: BFEL on November 23, 2015, 11:38:34 am
This...is this an issue with this game in particular, or is it because my new computer came pre-loaded with the abomination that is Windows 10?
Post by: Rolan7 on November 23, 2015, 11:51:59 am
Maybe that's what's happening for you? I think rebooting the computer is one way to cancel the sync.
Post by: BFEL on November 23, 2015, 12:16:40 pm
Anyway, the BOS's reasoning for making you kill Virgil is...actually pretty decent. I mean considering everyone else it and the other factions want you to kill is given the reasoning of "BUT I WANT TO SEE THEM DIIIIIIE!", "because he has the knowledge to create a supermutant army" is fairly well reasoned out.
I mean, they're all still horrible people (and yes, I've since realized THEY ALL ARE FUCKING MONSTERS, NOT JUST MAXSON. Oh, except Haylen. And MAYBE Danse.) and need to die, but they've at least managed to actually give ONE decent argument for their actions.
Post by: Gabeux on November 23, 2015, 12:27:21 pm
So, uh. If you need something dead yesterday, full-auto plasma does the trick. Burned through a Deathclaw Matriarch in about three or four seconds.I use the alien blaster for the same purposes.
Anyway, I came here because I just saw a loading tip that informed me "When the Institute released its first batch of synths, they tried to work with people in the commonwealth, but mutual mistrust ended that relationship quickly"
THIS IS THE ONLY TIME THIS IS EVER HINTED AT. A RANDOM LOADING TIP.
I noticed this. There's really no mention of this at all from anyone, it makes no sense.
Anyway, the BOS's reasoning for making you kill Virgil is...actually pretty decent. I mean considering everyone else it and the other factions want you to kill is given the reasoning of "BUT I WANT TO SEE THEM DIIIIIIE!", "because he has the knowledge to create a supermutant army" is fairly well reasoned out.
Spoiler: Virgil (click to show/hide)
Post by: Virtz on November 23, 2015, 01:44:56 pm
Also, your attacks do have a wind-up. And they just get cancelled if anything thumps you. So in between the time you start your attack and when it lands, generic feral ghoul gets to randomly decide to instantly tackle you from beyond your own reach with an attack multiple times faster than your wind-up with a medium weapon.
Like what am I missing here?
Post by: DoomOnion on November 23, 2015, 01:56:51 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on November 23, 2015, 02:28:28 pm
Post by: Cyroth on November 23, 2015, 02:42:56 pm
Does anyone else spend maybe too much time dressing up their settlers with funny hats and giving them back stories?
I have one guy I call Rusty. He guards the gate of Sanctuary and wears a captain's hat.
I don't give them backstories, but I spend waaaaay too much time making sure all my settlers have unified equipment.
Guards get a minuteman outfit and militia hat, a set of white combat armor (second best upgrade I think), fully upgraded semi-automatic institute rifles (because blue pewpew is best pewpew).
Caravans get road leather, BoS combat armor and fully upgraded automatic combat rifles.
Farmers get farm clothes and 10mm handguns.
Shopkeepers get a variety of dresses or tuxedos and a snubnosed .44.
Doctors get a labcoat and a red laser pistol.
Scavengers get a drifter outfit and a pipe rifle.
You don't even want to know how long and how much junk it took to get all settlements unified.
Post by: AlleeCat on November 23, 2015, 02:55:14 pm
Post by: Knave on November 23, 2015, 03:00:14 pm
Does anyone else spend maybe too much time dressing up their settlers with funny hats and giving them back stories?
I have one guy I call Rusty. He guards the gate of Sanctuary and wears a captain's hat.
I don't give them backstories, but I spend waaaaay too much time making sure all my settlers have unified equipment.
Guards get a minuteman outfit and militia hat, a set of white combat armor (second best upgrade I think), fully upgraded semi-automatic institute rifles (because blue pewpew is best pewpew).
Caravans get road leather, BoS combat armor and fully upgraded automatic combat rifles.
Farmers get farm clothes and 10mm handguns.
Shopkeepers get a variety of dresses or tuxedos and a snubnosed .44.
Doctors get a labcoat and a red laser pistol.
Scavengers get a drifter outfit and a pipe rifle.
You don't even want to know how long and how much junk it took to get all settlements unified.
That is commitment! I dunno if I could do that with how fiddly assigning things to people is currently. If only there was an overall settlement assignment screen. Assign x people as guards, x as farmers, x as shop keepers etc. Then uniform assignment function. All guards by default are given y weapon and z armour as long as stocks allow unless superceded by something you give them.
Post by: Teneb on November 23, 2015, 03:21:17 pm
Does anyone else spend maybe too much time dressing up their settlers with funny hats and giving them back stories?
I have one guy I call Rusty. He guards the gate of Sanctuary and wears a captain's hat.
I don't give them backstories, but I spend waaaaay too much time making sure all my settlers have unified equipment.
Guards get a minuteman outfit and militia hat, a set of white combat armor (second best upgrade I think), fully upgraded semi-automatic institute rifles (because blue pewpew is best pewpew).
Caravans get road leather, BoS combat armor and fully upgraded automatic combat rifles.
Farmers get farm clothes and 10mm handguns.
Shopkeepers get a variety of dresses or tuxedos and a snubnosed .44.
Doctors get a labcoat and a red laser pistol.
Scavengers get a drifter outfit and a pipe rifle.
You don't even want to know how long and how much junk it took to get all settlements unified.
That is commitment! I dunno if I could do that with how fiddly assigning things to people is currently. If only there was an overall settlement assignment screen. Assign x people as guards, x as farmers, x as shop keepers etc. Then uniform assignment function. All guards by default are given y weapon and z armour as long as stocks allow unless superceded by something you give them.
Looks like a mod idea, though it might need one of them script extenders to be made first.
Post by: PTTG?? on November 23, 2015, 03:31:53 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on November 23, 2015, 03:40:20 pm
Does anyone else spend maybe too much time dressing up their settlers with funny hats and giving them back stories?
I have one guy I call Rusty. He guards the gate of Sanctuary and wears a captain's hat.
I don't give them backstories, but I spend waaaaay too much time making sure all my settlers have unified equipment.
Guards get a minuteman outfit and militia hat, a set of white combat armor (second best upgrade I think), fully upgraded semi-automatic institute rifles (because blue pewpew is best pewpew).
Caravans get road leather, BoS combat armor and fully upgraded automatic combat rifles.
Farmers get farm clothes and 10mm handguns.
Shopkeepers get a variety of dresses or tuxedos and a snubnosed .44.
Doctors get a labcoat and a red laser pistol.
Scavengers get a drifter outfit and a pipe rifle.
You don't even want to know how long and how much junk it took to get all settlements unified.
White combat armor is the best material upgrade, at least.
It pisses me off to no end because when you gotta optimize you gotta optimize, but it looks like crap both on its own and in combination with damn near anything else.
It took helmetless headshot damage in Project Nevada to get me to wear helmets in NV, and something similar is going to have to happen here. I love the look of the gas masks, but they don't mesh with much higher-tier gear. First thing I want in terms of item mods are military fatigues and an assault gasmask with stats equivalent to BoS outfit and a mid-tier helmet respectively, because that STALKER look is baller and everything after it (save power armor) looks like rubbish.
Post by: Cyroth on November 23, 2015, 03:47:33 pm
Why can't I put something into my glasses or flight helmet that gives me the effect of the recon scope?
Why can't I use ballistic fibers to armor my coat or fedora?
Why must Beth torture me so?
Post by: AVE on November 23, 2015, 03:56:50 pm
Why can't I use ballistic fibers to armor my coat or fedora?Actually you can. The battered fedora (and trilby hat) can be upgraded with ballistic weave.
Post by: Cyroth on November 23, 2015, 03:59:05 pm
Pretty sure I have had several hats (including some type of fedora) that could not be upgraded.
So it works for some pieces of clothing but not for others that are almost completely identical?
What.
Post by: Aseaheru on November 23, 2015, 04:06:02 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 23, 2015, 04:10:50 pm
Wait, what?
Pretty sure I have had several hats (including some type of fedora) that could not be upgraded.
So it works for some pieces of clothing but not for others that are almost completely identical?
What.
Certain clothes can be upgraded if you follow the questline (I believe its through it's sidequests) from one of the factions.
Tip: Choo choo
What's funny is that I only realized I could do that AFTER I finished and stopped playing (taking a break). I believe one of those stealth-tips-that-if-you-don't-read-you-don't-know-what-you-can-do are at fault for me not realizing it.
Post by: BFEL on November 23, 2015, 08:05:16 pm
Interesting, I'll have to find out what quests do this.Wait, what?
Pretty sure I have had several hats (including some type of fedora) that could not be upgraded.
So it works for some pieces of clothing but not for others that are almost completely identical?
What.
Certain clothes can be upgraded if you follow the questline (I believe its through it's sidequests) from one of the factions.
Tip: Choo choo
What's funny is that I only realized I could do that AFTER I finished and stopped playing (taking a break). I believe one of those stealth-tips-that-if-you-don't-read-you-don't-know-what-you-can-do are at fault for me not realizing it.
But yeah, Beth is REALLY torturing those of us who like looking like a badass. I mean they really couldn't make a SINGLE layerable duster/longcoat? The drifter outfit doesn't look like it would clip with things for example, so why the hell can't I wear armors on top? :(
Oh, and in the same vein WHAT THE SHITTING FUCK HAPPENED TO HOLSTERED GUNS?? I wanna see my goddamn laser rifle on my back when I'm running around thank you very fucking much.
Post by: Gabeux on November 23, 2015, 08:54:41 pm
Oh and, that girl Glory from Choo Choo, I believe her clothes have ~70 ballistic ~120 energy and some radiation resistance. Don't remember the exact numbers, but it was pretty high for clothes.
And I was wondering if stuff in DLCs they make will depend on the ending you choose. That'd be pretty sad.
Post by: motorbitch on November 23, 2015, 09:14:16 pm
i have not used vats a single time, and i have exactly the same ammount of critical hits as i do have sneak attacks.
now, this makes me wonder if my sneak attack dmg is boosted by comics and bobbleheads after all.
would be nice, i always feel kind of stupid if i find one of these, as im under the impression they just dont do anything for me.
regarding upgrading clothes, im just wearing my charisma suit under the power armor, with running leg guards in case i need to get somewhere quickly.
stoped bringing combat armor long ago... all it does is adding to the bulk, and if i do combat, i go in full iron man anyhow.
of course... i havn found a branded powerarmor pice yet (exept that one from the quest, with i dont use) so no martyrer hurts a bit.
but then who needs that crap. powerarmor armor rating + NERDRAGE!! + emergency protocolled powerarmor torso + dmg reduction from lone wanderer = game broken kaputt. its virtually impossible to die with that.
Post by: sambojin on November 23, 2015, 09:51:26 pm
You can't make anything better.
Yep. Bethesda does these things to us.
It's pretty funny in FO4, where power armour is the best, but you get it really damn early. So the rest are just bits and scrap, no matter how good you are at modding armour.
Until the modders are good at modding armour at least.......
Post by: motorbitch on November 23, 2015, 10:04:33 pm
anyway, later aluminium is required in quite large quantities to repair and upgrade the powerarmor, so that can become a small annoyance. of course... money is no issue even with minimal charisma, and that stuff can be bought so...
anyway, maybe instead of playing on the annoying harder difficulties (i hate it to shoot dudes 20x into the forehead to make them dead) i should just mod the fuel consumption of the power armors to make them more hungry... i think there already is a mod that does that.
speaking of mods, i realy wish there was one that would allow me to add paintjobs into an extra slot extra points if paint then would not increase my strengh or charisma. it doesnt realy make sense that a paint job does that, or that a paintjob replaces the radiation shielding. sadly, i havent found anything to do this :(
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 23, 2015, 11:02:24 pm
It's pretty funny in FO4, where power armour is the best, but you get it really damn early. So the rest are just bits and scrap, no matter how good you are at modding armour.What? Are you serious?
Most people don't have a neverending supply of fusion cores and can't keep their power armor on 24/7 throughout the entire game. And if you do, good for you. You're an exception.
Post by: NRDL on November 23, 2015, 11:03:19 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on November 23, 2015, 11:05:07 pm
Post by: sambojin on November 23, 2015, 11:20:20 pm
Make sure you skill into "fusion cores last twice as long" though.
It's not unlimited power armour, but it's not exactly a hard thing to have it regularly/semi-permanently. If you spent 4 hours messing around with paintjobs or town building, 4 hours for damn near unlimited power armour isn't the worst use of your time.
Post by: motorbitch on November 24, 2015, 12:08:34 am
dunno, i just dont run around or jump in it if i can help it, and i try not to hold my breath longer then necessary. the cores then last a long time.
i agree, the standard paintings dont look very good, especially as the tubings are full rust. iron flex tubings dont make much sense tho. there are mods that replace the original skin with less rusty ones. most of them are rather borring tho and dont look worn enough, or replace custom paintjobs (with wont help me, as im not allowed to use a usefull mod with a paint job)
anyway, i think the the enclave x-01 mod is an improvement and it replaces the standard look of the suit.
apropos look, i messed around a lot with the reshading suit, first to remove the blurr introduced by the antialiasing, but then i didnt like the greenish look of the colours, and the sharpening also introduced a lot of colour branding.
tried some mods that did tried to fix the same problems too, but all of them had one or another thing i didnt like.
basically, all had the same problems i stumbled in, and the mods either didnt adress this at all, or overcompensated it. tho. this is mostly a matter of taste i guess.
anyway, after messing around for ages with the bazzillions of settings in reshader it i finally found settings that i do like.
without plugin:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
with plugin:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
finally nice colours that are neither dull nor overly vibrant, sharp textures, and even less branding then without shaprening. performance is good too. doesnt seem to cause any lower fps at all \o/
Post by: Astral on November 24, 2015, 12:13:35 am
Your first mistake is using melee weapons against feral ghouls.
A fast weapon, such as the combat knife, or a ripper, with the rank 4 melee weapon perk which causes melee hits to do an area effect, is ridiculous against ferals. They can simply run into my blade while I hold left mouse button.
I sort of want to spawn a few hundred ferals and see how long it takes to cleave through them.
Post by: BFEL on November 24, 2015, 12:35:36 am
I'm wondering if this is a bug, or an abandoned feature or what.
Post by: Tack on November 24, 2015, 08:17:05 am
Patched all the walls with concrete foundations.
Mind=Blown
Post by: Flying Dice on November 24, 2015, 08:34:02 am
Patched all the walls with concrete foundations.
Mind=Blown
What else would anyone use those for?
Apart from building out onto the water on Spectacle Island, that is.
Post by: umiman on November 24, 2015, 11:33:55 am
Flatten terrain.Patched all the walls with concrete foundations.
Mind=Blown
What else would anyone use those for?
Apart from building out onto the water on Spectacle Island, that is.
That and the stilts floor are very useful to make an actual buildable plot of land as you can manually set their height.
Post by: Neyvn on November 24, 2015, 12:03:06 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on November 24, 2015, 12:10:35 pm
Flatten terrain.Patched all the walls with concrete foundations.
Mind=Blown
What else would anyone use those for?
Apart from building out onto the water on Spectacle Island, that is.
That and the stilts floor are very useful to make an actual buildable plot of land as you can manually set their height.
Sorry, yeah, I meant in the sense of "spam them everywhere because nothing else will clip into terrain".
Post by: Gabeux on November 24, 2015, 01:03:31 pm
Has anyone had problems where crops are not letting you touch them anymore? I tried to move the farm to another location and after planting a few they were unable to be manipulated any more. No option came up when mousing over them and sometimes they would when I wasn't even looking anywhere near them...
Yeah, I think I fixed that by either shooting and repairing the crops (repair cost = 1 plan crop type, same as planting'em), or using console to disable/enable it.
Because I was too lazy to test if fast travelling out and back works.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 24, 2015, 01:49:36 pm
Post by: AVE on November 24, 2015, 02:42:11 pm
Post by: BFEL on November 24, 2015, 03:19:18 pm
Also:
Speaking of power armor modding, anyone notice when looking at power armor pieces it has a "standard X lining" slot, which then doesn't show up on the actual crafting screen?ERHERM. Seriously, this is bugging the shit out of me.
I'm wondering if this is a bug, or an abandoned feature or what.
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 24, 2015, 03:22:06 pm
Post by: motorbitch on November 24, 2015, 04:13:07 pm
holding breath while sniping seems to consume a lot of fuel
sneaking around consumes almost no fuel at all.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on November 24, 2015, 04:30:30 pm
Ah, just saw Liberty Prime pick up and toss a Behemoth like a ragdoll, that was great.WHAT
Also:Speaking of power armor modding, anyone notice when looking at power armor pieces it has a "standard X lining" slot, which then doesn't show up on the actual crafting screen?ERHERM. Seriously, this is bugging the shit out of me.
I'm wondering if this is a bug, or an abandoned feature or what.
WHAAAT
I gotta stop reading this thread...
Post by: BFEL on November 24, 2015, 05:40:01 pm
And its doing it on OTHER new games as well. HELP! WHAT THE SHIT BETHESDA?
Post by: Teneb on November 24, 2015, 06:11:03 pm
Well in the vein of shit that is driving me insane, I tried to start a new game, everything works fine up until you pop out of the cryo pod, at which point I'm totally frozen and can't do anything whatsoever. Except access the start menu. Can't look around, can't move, nothing. This is persisting through reloads too, because it wasn't already shitty enough.Verify integrity?
And its doing it on OTHER new games as well. HELP! WHAT THE SHIT BETHESDA?
Post by: Gabeux on November 24, 2015, 06:36:33 pm
Composition: Sand, gravel and COMMUNISM
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 24, 2015, 06:48:26 pm
And by "type" I mean standard, reinforced, or heavy. Or something along those lines. Same base kind of armor (combat armor, for example) but different protection and value without any mods.
It's getting really annoying having to check armor manually to see if it's a better type. Comparisons of value/weight/protection aren't really useful due to the modding disparity.
Post by: BlackFlyme on November 24, 2015, 07:22:04 pm
Post by: motorbitch on November 24, 2015, 08:20:14 pm
my psu recently died, and my mainboard is realy smart so if the psu dies, it resets my bios.
well, long story short, during my sessions to restore my old oc settings, i got that black screen cant access taskmanager problem you described, and i fucked up a few files of my game so i ahd to reinstall.
its understandable you blame bethesda and microsoft, but if you are the only one having a problem, it may be a problem on your side.
also, windows 10 is realy good in not letting programms fuck up the system. generally spoken, if you get anything but "program has stoped working" its proably not the fault of the program.
most likely, in this case, you have faulty drivers or hardware.
Post by: BFEL on November 24, 2015, 11:53:32 pm
most likely, in this case, you have faulty drivers or hardware.Considering I got this computer on the 9th, that rate of failure would only be precedented by the original Xbox 360 :P
Post by: umiman on November 25, 2015, 12:00:43 am
Well the issue has resolved itself at any rate. I'm PRETTY sure the problem was that somehow the game was updating or somesuch while I was playing it, as when I quit in disgust steam had a blue 10% next to it.I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility. I'd say every time I buy a new piece of hardware, it has like a 30% chance of being a lemon or it doesn't work with my setup or it fails for some reason or other.most likely, in this case, you have faulty drivers or hardware.Considering I got this computer on the 9th, that rate of failure would only be precedented by the original Xbox 360 :P
Post by: scriver on November 25, 2015, 01:09:21 am
Well the issue has resolved itself at any rate. I'm PRETTY sure the problem was that somehow the game was updating or somesuch while I was playing it, as when I quit in disgust steam had a blue 10% next to it.
It was syncing. With the steam cloud, or whatever it's called.
Post by: motorbitch on November 25, 2015, 01:45:28 am
on low settings they look awful and already cost some fps, on medium settings they can cause servere fps hits and have some ugly popup effects.
i messed around with the ini settings a lot, and finally found settings that look realy good and are quite fast, too.
fallout4prefs.ini:
iShadowMapResolution=1024
uiShadowFilter=1
uiOrthoShadowFilter=3
fallout4.ini:
iShadowMapResolutionPrimary=1024
so, for some reason the game uses quite large shadow resolution even on low settings. i dont realy know what uiShadowFilter does (aside of causing some major fps hit on anything higher then 1 and introduce these popup effects).
uiOrthoShadowFilter is the soft shadow filter. for me, it is quite cheap performance whise, and makes the shadows look good.
hope it helps.
Post by: Gabeux on November 25, 2015, 01:48:30 am
Not really saying any spoilers, but saying what IS NOT a spoiler regarding the old psychic lady, which might be a "spoiler by exclusion" or something.
If you managed to avoid spoilers to the point of not knowing what happens in Vault 111, might wanna avoid it too.
Spoiler: Mama Murphy (click to show/hide)
Post by: Neonivek on November 25, 2015, 01:59:10 am
Post by: motorbitch on November 25, 2015, 03:03:58 am
stupid bloodwing skimmer assholes. they are almost impossible to hit without vats, and im running low on ammo.
takes 100 5.56mm without vats... or 2 plasma rounds with.
aw damn. made it so far without, but these bugs are just broken, tanking like a deathclaw and killing me with 2 stings (well, some of them. poison is REALY bad on survival :(
Post by: Flying Dice on November 25, 2015, 04:52:07 am
Three tiers I know of. Standard (no prefix), Sturdy, and Heavy. Mods can change the name though, so even that isn't too helpful.IIRC for any given class of armor (i.e. Raider, Combat, &c.) the baseline Sturdy is slightly superior to top-modded Standard, and baseline Heavy is slightly superior to top-modded Sturdy.
I mean, it's not exactly an onerous task to look at the resistances on the item, considering that it takes all of a second to determine whether it has +, ++, or +++ beside both physical and energy. If it does, it's a tier or two up or has much better material mods. If it doesn't, it doesn't.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on November 25, 2015, 05:00:01 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: MarcAFK on November 25, 2015, 05:05:42 am
Spoilers in the videos I guess but idk I've read through this thread.
Post by: Tack on November 25, 2015, 06:04:55 am
Post by: Neonivek on November 25, 2015, 06:10:47 am
I don't use VATS- not because of the challenge, but mostly because I didn't in any previous games and don't really see the point.
There are a lot of powerful Vats builds that are far better then anything else.
You REALLY REALLY cannot use VATS to circumvent the challenge because if you don't have the abilities, then you don't have a great vats advantage.
Post by: motorbitch on November 25, 2015, 06:49:42 am
some targets are almost impossible to hit without vats. this stupid mosquitoe thingy. had a different name then all the others, and didnt do to much damage. but it was FAST and never stood still for a second. would do a full circle around me and hit once, then circle again.
i havnt picked any perks or attributes to make vats effective, and fairly low perception.
still, in vats i had +90% to hit that thing with a plasma rifle (with had way to low firerate and projectile speed to hit the bug without vats)
that said... i just could have use jet i guess.
in other news: weapons with explosive brand do twice the listed dmg.
instead of weapon damage on direct hit + explosive dmg as aoe they do weapon damage + explosive damage as aoe. so, its twice the listed dmg. plus the aoe does bad things to limbs.
very op. cant imagine this is intended.
Post by: Tack on November 25, 2015, 06:56:04 am
Post by: motorbitch on November 25, 2015, 08:00:07 am
Post by: NRDL on November 25, 2015, 08:04:42 am
Post by: scriver on November 25, 2015, 08:09:52 am
Post by: motorbitch on November 25, 2015, 08:12:00 am
the mats you need to upgrade the t-45 are abundant. but by the time you have the perks to upgrade it much, you will have a better power armor.
still, the upgrades you can do should be worth it. iirc its almost only steel you need.
edith sais:
checked it, repairs are cheap for t-45, but upgrades arent. aluminium will be rare once you start doing a lot of armor upgrades, and more fancy weapon mods need that stuff too. you can buy alu in diamond city tho.
guess it depends how much you use that armor. personally i only started using P.A a lot when i already had a t-60
Post by: Flying Dice on November 25, 2015, 08:50:36 am
Post by: That Wolf on November 25, 2015, 09:04:06 am
Its pretty silly but expect that from beth.
Yeah the first explosive weapon I got was a combat shotty and it owns everything and can even blow down braced doors.
Oh and any legendary (insert type here) ghoul just shoot a leg until its lame then the melee the head, saves ammo and life.
Post by: BigD145 on November 25, 2015, 11:22:19 am
Post by: Gabeux on November 25, 2015, 11:32:44 am
Anyone else following the adventures of fort ginger?
Spoilers in the videos I guess but idk I've read through this thread.
I am. I watch all Robbaz videos as soon as I can, and I watch his old playlists too. I'll soon run out of stuff to watch. :'(
The obvious tip about mats, is that..never forget to mark the resources you need. You'd be surprised how, when exploring, you bump into good stuff like aluminum, circuitry, copper.
I played half the game not knowing that dinner trays converts to like 3 aluminum or something, and that coffee mugs converts to ceramic (DERP). And I remember there's a factory that probably used to produce trays, because the conveyor belts are full of them.
Later in the game, if you have got the "caps finder" (Luck 1) perks and discount (char 1) perks, buying shipments is usually worth it (even though adhesive is expensive, so if you're not lazy it's better to plant crops).
I was making a lot of money just from "caps finder" perk, so I'd use "surplus" caps on shipments of steel, wood, copper, adhesive, etc. Really worth it if you don't have the patience to stop doing quests and dedicate time to scavanging exclusively. I couldn't find/remember where to buy shipments of aluminum, though, so power armor upgrades would eat through aluminum really quickly.
E: I'm playing very casually on a new character on survival mode. It's really good. But damn it can be stressful when something sponges through all your ammo and you're left thinking if you can survive the next adventure or not. :P I'm making melee this time, but I don't plan on playing more than a couple hours per week.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 25, 2015, 11:46:21 am
Aluminum cans and such are quite common. I'm having adhesive shortages in general and I pick up all the glue and duct tape.Trust me, aluminum becomes more and more scarce as your crafting perks go up. Adhesive is never common, and screws/cork/leather will be problematic from time to time, but at 4 Guns/Science/Armorer you need hundreds of units of aluminum to do all the upgrades you want.
Post by: TheBronzePickle on November 25, 2015, 12:01:12 pm
Post by: Vorbicon on November 25, 2015, 12:14:34 pm
Aluminum cans and such are quite common. I'm having adhesive shortages in general and I pick up all the glue and duct tape.
Use your settlements to plant corn, mutfruit and tatos, with another settlement that's on the waterfront to purify mass amounts of water. 3 corn, 3 tatos, 3 mutfruit and 1 purified water makes veggie starch, which gives you 5 adhesives each. I haven't run into adhesive shortages in a long time. I also have a ton of excess water being produced for trading.
Post by: Neyvn on November 25, 2015, 01:03:21 pm
I had a Toolbox filled with ammo. Only ammo. All the time I have been playing and the ammo I haven't been using went into it. Cells, Rounds for guns that would be useful, Rounds for Guns that are OP....
Game decided to respawn loot into Sanctuary. I thought the toolbox was made by myself, but nope. It was there from the beginning....
ALL THE AMMO GONE!!!
Note to all. Don't store things into items that highlight yellow when in Construction Mode. They are lootspots. Not containers...
Post by: sprinkled chariot on November 25, 2015, 01:24:20 pm
Post by: miauw62 on November 25, 2015, 01:25:10 pm
Post by: BigD145 on November 25, 2015, 01:41:42 pm
For aluminium I also like picking up TV dinner trays, those seem to be quite common.
TV and Surgical trays. Probably 1/3rd of all cans are aluminum.
Post by: jocan2003 on November 25, 2015, 01:58:41 pm
Are there any ,, special upgrades" for power armours, that are not basic t-45? Something like unlockable through quests or finding books stuff.There is a piezoelectric power armor chest based on the T-45 series i think? its a unique that give increased AP regeneration if in contact with radiation.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 25, 2015, 01:59:27 pm
Are there any ,, special upgrades" for power armours, that are not basic t-45? Something like unlockable through quests or finding books stuff.There's a magazine line that gives you new paint jobs, but those all have the same agility bonus.
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 25, 2015, 02:13:07 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: jocan2003 on November 25, 2015, 02:45:36 pm
Nice timing!Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sirian on November 25, 2015, 02:57:27 pm
...........................................................
I had a Toolbox filled with ammo. Only ammo. All the time I have been playing and the ammo I haven't been using went into it. Cells, Rounds for guns that would be useful, Rounds for Guns that are OP....
Game decided to respawn loot into Sanctuary. I thought the toolbox was made by myself, but nope. It was there from the beginning....
ALL THE AMMO GONE!!!
Note to all. Don't store things into items that highlight yellow when in Construction Mode. They are lootspots. Not containers...
Ouch that's harsh. I store all my stuff in crates that I made myself (and the house around it), so I'm confident that this shouldn't happen to me, but I had to reload old saves a couple times after looting a whole area, storing the loot in some random container, and coming back to find it empty...
The trick to avoid that is to use one of the crafting stations that you can find everywhere as a temporary storage, as they are not "refilled" unlike common loot containers. I noticed that pretty much every notable location has at least one crafting station somewhere.
Post by: Owlga on November 25, 2015, 03:16:54 pm
Adhesive, screws, copper and gears are all renewable resources if you know where to look and how to get them started.
Post by: scriver on November 25, 2015, 03:38:59 pm
Spoiler: Possible spoilers (or lies!) regarding the area west/northwest of Sanctuary (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gabeux on November 25, 2015, 04:18:33 pm
Pretty sure some sports - Vertiball? - could be made out of it.
Someone made a short video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpvEn1Olam0). Beware spoilers.
Post by: miauw62 on November 25, 2015, 04:21:18 pm
So, I thought I found something, but then I died and couldn't find it again.Sounds like some strange bug somebody else had, where they found a floor hatch labeled "E) Detonate" in the middle of nowhere. They threw a molotov and it disappeared.Spoiler: Possible spoilers (or lies!) regarding the area west/northwest of Sanctuary (click to show/hide)
Post by: MaximumZero on November 25, 2015, 06:10:24 pm
Post by: IWishIWereSarah on November 25, 2015, 06:15:17 pm
So I saved and approached, to see whether it was a bug. And oh my god, that was my fastest death :D
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 25, 2015, 06:39:32 pm
So, was I the only one that was very surprised by Swan? That was a legit jump scare.
I wasn't entirely surprised that something came out of the water, but I didn't expect the swan to move.
Post by: umiman on November 25, 2015, 07:05:01 pm
I was expecting something to happen, as it was a named location. A very recognizable location. However, after wandering around in the area nothing happened so I started exploring. Then when I went to fiddle with the robot I heard a roar and Nick shooting at something so I turned around and went.So, was I the only one that was very surprised by Swan? That was a legit jump scare.
I wasn't entirely surprised that something came out of the water, but I didn't expect the swan to move.
"Holy shit".
Post by: motorbitch on November 25, 2015, 07:39:25 pm
you fast travle to a location. upon arival, there are hostiles.
you think: PHUNY SUPERMUTANTS! IM GONNA KILL YOU!
you press the button that will get out your weapon.
nothing
you press it again.
nothing
you press another weapon button
nothing
beeping sounds. beep beep beep
you start running
you manically mash all the weapon buttons
nothing
you masch them a bit more
dude gets his hands out, as if holding a weapon (but not actually holding a weapon)*
you stop mashing the buttons. careful now. press the weapon button you realy WANT.
the dude... gets his weapons out!
kaboom! the nuke goes off.
the loading screen.
*at this point, i always get all exited because i know im only some 10s from being allowed to shoot something \o/
Post by: Rolan7 on November 25, 2015, 07:54:55 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 25, 2015, 08:05:40 pm
Switching to third person would sometimes fix it. Or switching to third person, switching weapons, and going first person.
Especially great when suicider super mutants are involved, which I guess it's what you meant. ::)
Post by: motorbitch on November 25, 2015, 08:18:36 pm
it seems power armor power consumption is directly tied to the action point usage / generation.
the more slowly you generate action points (say becaus you move) the more energy your power armor will consume.
if you use action points (say, because you hold your breat while sniping) you will consume a lot energy.
there isnt to much a difference in power consumption between sniping and using your jetpack.
so, im fairly sure now that anything that affects ap generation or usage also affects power armor power consumption.
the sniper perk will reduce power needs for holding your breath, the leg modifications that affect ap generation or usage will also affect fusion core drain.
again: fairly sure, not 100% sure. its not that easy to test (or, actually it is. but im to lazy to do it right)
Post by: motorbitch on November 25, 2015, 08:33:27 pm
just found this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gabeux on November 25, 2015, 08:39:52 pm
And damn, I wanted one of those. I just managed to find one that gave +15% limb damage, so it was pretty much an insta-disabler.
Post by: motorbitch on November 25, 2015, 08:48:53 pm
anyway, there is one for sell with 50% in the
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
can you elaborate on the paintjob? i have not found to many, and they just give one bonus, like charisma, strengh or agility.
Post by: Gabeux on November 25, 2015, 08:57:12 pm
There's a group of Power Armor modders on the Commonwealth. They sell a specific paint job. Take your pick:
Spoiler: Tip (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Location (click to show/hide)
Beware it's T-60 specific. It doesn't work on X-01's...which is sad.
Post by: motorbitch on November 25, 2015, 09:15:29 pm
in other news: the new ati drivers are plain awesome.
Asynchronous Shaders
Shader Cache
Optimized Flip Queue Size
Custom Resolution Support
Frame Pacing Enhancements
Frame Rate Target Control Enhancements
got better fps and the game feels more smooth when droping under v-sync.
still cant fully fix the engine, but well, only so much a driver can do.
also supports hazzle free downscaling.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 25, 2015, 10:47:37 pm
What am I doing wrong?
Post by: MarcAFK on November 25, 2015, 11:02:18 pm
Okay wow, I'm getting tired of dying to mininukes. Kinda killing my immersion sense I don't know how to avoid them, until they've killed me once (and even then...)Stop exploding.
What am I doing wrong?
Post by: BigD145 on November 25, 2015, 11:04:22 pm
Okay wow, I'm getting tired of dying to mininukes. Kinda killing my immersion sense I don't know how to avoid them, until they've killed me once (and even then...)Stop exploding.
What am I doing wrong?
Stop hitting the nuke with your face.
Post by: MarcAFK on November 25, 2015, 11:09:21 pm
Sonofabitch.
Post by: sambojin on November 25, 2015, 11:47:22 pm
The world's fallen twice in the FallOut universe, at least. FO4 is just getting the SPECIAL bits together, considering tech in 1+2 after the first fall. Synths? VATS? All that different? But you're really, really human. Honestly........
Explains the bad dialogue, anyway. And the reason you can only see about 300m upwards. At most. Plus the fact that you're essentially just a scrap collector on a mission from "someone". All the time.
Post by: motorbitch on November 26, 2015, 12:02:56 am
Post by: Gabeux on November 26, 2015, 12:07:17 am
Okay wow, I'm getting tired of dying to mininukes. Kinda killing my immersion sense I don't know how to avoid them, until they've killed me once (and even then...)
What am I doing wrong?
The only real way to deal with that is sneaking and going Vassili Zaitsev when enemy gets cautious. That is: kill, move repeat.
If you're not going in sneaking / cannot sneak at all, then make sure you have looots of cover (trees help a lot) between you and the target.
If you're really pissed off, sneak and order your companion to face your enemy (because attack orders tend to make your companion go stupid). Wait for the first nuke, then alpha strike the nuker.
Bring grenades (specially plasma) and dump them all on the nuker, or keep a fat man / rocket launcher with you or your companion for this kind of situation.
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 26, 2015, 12:13:41 am
Okay wow, I'm getting tired of dying to mininukes. Kinda killing my immersion sense I don't know how to avoid them, until they've killed me once (and even then...)
What am I doing wrong?
Depending on the difficulty, heavy guns like the Minigun can be really effective because the suiciders (I assume that's how you're getting killed by mininukes) run straight at you and you don't have to worry about aiming. If you can't kill them before they reach you, though, you could always try sniping from a long ways away.
Post by: BigD145 on November 26, 2015, 12:26:34 am
Okay wow, I'm getting tired of dying to mininukes. Kinda killing my immersion sense I don't know how to avoid them, until they've killed me once (and even then...)
What am I doing wrong?
Depending on the difficulty, heavy guns like the Minigun can be really effective because the suiciders (I assume that's how you're getting killed by mininukes) run straight at you and you don't have to worry about aiming. If you can't kill them before they reach you, though, you could always try sniping from a long ways away.
Nuclear bullets from my sniper rifle are fun.
Post by: Dostoevsky on November 26, 2015, 12:39:02 am
Beware it's T-60 specific. It doesn't work on X-01's...which is sad.
On a random side note, does the T-60 look like a power armor downgrade to anyone else? Its place in the whole progression scheme seems pretty odd:
T-45: the early model (intro'd in F3, bethesda's first entry). 'Worst' of the standard designations.
T-51: the 'prime time' model (and the iconic original from F1). Pretty darn good, and in most of the games the best that's reasonably available.
X-01 (or just 'the enclave model'): The 'super future tech' model developed after the bombs fell (intro'd in F2, if I recall right). The best, but usually a few, limited copies available.
Then, suddenly in Fallout 4 we have the T-60, supposedly the latest and greatest when the bombs fell. Except... it looks like a crummy budget version of the T-45. Comparison pic courtesy of random internet denizen here: http://imgur.com/NcnIUjG (http://imgur.com/NcnIUjG). More exposed joints/weakspots/innards, a more riveted look, etc. Makes me think of a late-30s tank compared to a mid-40s tank.
Now, it'd make sense as a 'mass production' model built and used in the desperate times before the bombs fell, except it inexplicably has better stats than either the T-45 or T-51. Just something that bothers me.
Post by: motorbitch on November 26, 2015, 01:00:20 am
the enclave armor indeed showed up first in f2, but iirc it was not aviable in f2. you only have seen your enemies wearing these strange helmets.
anyway, long time ago for me... where there even different power armors? i think there was just power armor.
as for the suiciders: the commando perk will add stagger effects on high lvl, this may help to slow them down.
if you cant kill them fast enough, try to shoot the nuke while they are still far away - they will immidiately go boom.
of course, this will turn the expensive nuke into cheap nukluar (yes, its nukluar) material
Post by: Dostoevsky on November 26, 2015, 01:09:43 am
meh, i cant realy tell from the look with one would be better ;)
the enclave armor indeed showed up first in f2, but iirc it was not aviable in f2. you only have seen your enemies wearing these strange helmets.
anyway, long time ago for me... where there even different power armors? i think there was just power armor.
It's been a while since I've played F2, but I could've sworn you could loot one or two suits from a locker in one of the enclave facilities. I think I remember doing one of those silly runs that involved taking your tribal straight from your village to that suit of armor and stealing it via lots of careful saving and loading.
Post by: motorbitch on November 26, 2015, 01:16:40 am
Post by: Virtz on November 26, 2015, 02:02:51 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
cant remember. never did any of these silly runs. if there where enclave power armor, you got them like half an hour before the game ended (if you played a normal run). at this point, it just didnt matter anymore if there was enclave armor.Not really. If you got them from Navarro (and this wasn't very hard since you could get mistaken for a recruit when you got there and get ordered to just take one, IIRC), even moving along with the plot, there was quite a bit of the game left after that. If you only got them once you reached the Oil Rig, then I guess you'd only have it for a little while before the game ended.
Post by: NullForceOmega on November 26, 2015, 04:34:38 am
Fallout 1: T-51b and hardened PA
Fallout 2: introduces the APA (at Navarro) and the APA mkII (at the Poseidon oil rig) these two look identical and are the same as seen on the box art/intro movie/that enclave dude you can troll the hell out of.
Fallout 3: T-45d (which was identified in fallout 1 or 2, I forget which, as the first prototype model accepted by the U.S. Army, and was never actually deployed, as it was just the foundation for the T-51) a new take on the APA mkII, Tesla PA (which is a re-skinned APA mkII with bad stats) and Hellfire PA (which was awesome)
Fallout NV: the horrific abomination that was the Salvaged PA used by NCR and a re-re-invisioning of the APA mkII the Remnants PA
Fallout 4: the T-60 and a re-re-re-invisioning of the APA (but apparently the mkI not the mkII)
I guess next time we'll get a re-re-re-re-invisioning of the APA.
Post by: Yoink on November 26, 2015, 07:05:18 am
Certainly adds a lot of longevity to the game... and I suppose the other factions have something similar as well.
Heck, I've been playing a fair bit and I haven't even encountered half the factions, I don't think.
Also, is it just me or does the super sledge have a bit of an ASMR thing goin' on?
I just got my first kill (or kills, if you count a sentry turret) with it, and whilst perhaps not quite as awesome as the FO3 version, it's still great.
Post by: Catmeat on November 26, 2015, 07:15:24 am
My PC keeps getting people saying im a man and calling me a he, its funny and terribly scripted, sometimes im called both genders in the same conversation, I just met Billy and he was so cute I wanted to take him after realising (MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD AVOID AT ALL COSTS)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Gamma gun is pretty epic, in 3rd person fighting when you suplex a raider shoot him/her with it when they are down and they will go flying, just ad cliffs.
Im serious about the spoilers
Post by: Catmeat on November 26, 2015, 07:36:55 am
Post by: Virtz on November 26, 2015, 08:37:37 am
Fallout 3: (...) a new take on the APA mkIIWhich was seemingly somehow based on the Fallout Tactics Brotherhood PA, by the by.
Post by: BFEL on November 26, 2015, 09:09:03 am
I haven't gotten ONE explosive legendary. NOT A SINGLE FUCKING ONE >:(
Post by: Rolan7 on November 26, 2015, 09:14:02 am
Nope, suiciders haven't got me once. A single VATS shot to the arm seems to detonate them reliably. This is more *sneak sneak* *spotted* *mininuke fired at me from an arc, it makes a whistling sound but there's basically no time to run*.Okay wow, I'm getting tired of dying to mininukes. Kinda killing my immersion sense I don't know how to avoid them, until they've killed me once (and even then...)
What am I doing wrong?
Depending on the difficulty, heavy guns like the Minigun can be really effective because the suiciders (I assume that's how you're getting killed by mininukes) run straight at you and you don't have to worry about aiming. If you can't kill them before they reach you, though, you could always try sniping from a long ways away.
I got through the area by choosing a steep approach where the mininuke fell behind me. Direct cover doesn't seem to be enough, I think they spot for each other... Or not. I was playing without a proper mousepad last night so I couldn't look around properly.
It did turn out to be a named character, area boss I guess. She had *two* of the dang things, but managed to snipe her after avoiding one. It's just weird though... I take cover to engage enemies, suddenly *nope you're dead! That was the wrong choice here*. Grenades flush you out, but give at least a little indication.
Dunno, I think I'd mod it so enemies with Fat Mans beep like suiciders... Or just remove them altogether. It's too sudden for me to react.
Post by: Metalax on November 26, 2015, 09:23:20 am
Man I've gotten SHAFTED with legendaries. All the shit I get is "Assassins Leather X" or "Pea Shooter of do more damage to mole rats"You clearly haven't given sufficient sacrifices to Torgue. :P
I haven't gotten ONE explosive legendary. NOT A SINGLE FUCKING ONE >:(
Post by: Yoink on November 26, 2015, 09:26:24 am
I have a very, very nice arm plate that boosts strength and endurance, as well as a fuckin' super sledge that I found today which deals bonus damage to robots. Wasn't a bad find, I suppose. At my current level legendaries aren't nearly as irritating as they were in the past- half the time they die before they have time to mutate and refill their health.
Still a sucky mechanic, but at least I can mostly ignore it now.
Post by: IWishIWereSarah on November 26, 2015, 09:43:02 am
They both have the same property :
Go frenzy when you crit.
There is no point on making a crit with a missile launcher with VATS (I mean, look at the damage !), and I certainly won't use a missile launcher when sneaking.
yay, useless legendaries.
On the other hand, I have a legendary part of armor, with the "martyr" property : slow-mo when you drop under 20% HP. This one is a life-saver.
Post by: Catmeat on November 26, 2015, 09:49:25 am
A legendary soup mutant master with gatlingun, a legendary putrid glowing ghoul, a legendary glowing deathclaw, and raiders for days.
I even see plenty of brethren legs... i guess it happens when youv got the bottom bunk.
I killed a ghoul.... well strong killed it and it dropped a ghoul killer sledge, 50% extra god damn.
Ive also got many chameleon peices so when I stealth im like a predator.
Torgue demands your sacrifices. Use frag grenades on wild dogs and work your way up, soon youl have an explosive damage missile launcher.
Oh gosh I hope there are explo dam gamma guns
Please please Torgue bless me with your sexplosions
Post by: Sergius on November 26, 2015, 10:33:33 am
meh, i cant realy tell from the look with one would be better ;)
the enclave armor indeed showed up first in f2, but iirc it was not aviable in f2. you only have seen your enemies wearing these strange helmets.
anyway, long time ago for me... where there even different power armors? i think there was just power armor.
It's been a while since I've played F2, but I could've sworn you could loot one or two suits from a locker in one of the enclave facilities. I think I remember doing one of those silly runs that involved taking your tribal straight from your village to that suit of armor and stealing it via lots of careful saving and loading.
From what I remember, you went to Navarro and the guard was like "oh, whoa, new recruit! go inside and suit up soldier!" and then I was a killing machine. Maybe first you had to stand in one place for like a couple of hours before they gave you Advanced Armor, not sure.
EDIT: I think the exchange went something like this: (paraphrasing)
Chosen One: Hi, I, uh...
Navarro Guy: SOLDIER WHY ARE YOU OUT OF UNIFORM! GO SUIT UP!
Chosen One: But I...
Navarro Guy: ARMOR! NOW!
Chosen One: I think...
Navarro Guy: ARMOOOOOOOOOR!!!
Chosen One: Okay!!! Sheesh...
Post by: Rolan7 on November 26, 2015, 10:37:23 am
meh, i cant realy tell from the look with one would be better ;)
the enclave armor indeed showed up first in f2, but iirc it was not aviable in f2. you only have seen your enemies wearing these strange helmets.
anyway, long time ago for me... where there even different power armors? i think there was just power armor.
It's been a while since I've played F2, but I could've sworn you could loot one or two suits from a locker in one of the enclave facilities. I think I remember doing one of those silly runs that involved taking your tribal straight from your village to that suit of armor and stealing it via lots of careful saving and loading.
I remember seeing that on a FO2 speedrun video yeah.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on November 26, 2015, 11:01:02 am
meh, i cant realy tell from the look with one would be better ;)
the enclave armor indeed showed up first in f2, but iirc it was not aviable in f2. you only have seen your enemies wearing these strange helmets.
anyway, long time ago for me... where there even different power armors? i think there was just power armor.
It's been a while since I've played F2, but I could've sworn you could loot one or two suits from a locker in one of the enclave facilities. I think I remember doing one of those silly runs that involved taking your tribal straight from your village to that suit of armor and stealing it via lots of careful saving and loading.
From what I remember, you went to Navarro and the guard was like "oh, whoa, new recruit! go inside and suit up soldier!" and then I was a killing machine. Maybe first you had to stand in one place for like a couple of hours before they gave you Advanced Armor, not sure.
EDIT: I think the exchange went something like this: (paraphrasing)
Chosen One: Hi, I, uh...
Navarro Guy: SOLDIER WHY ARE YOU OUT OF UNIFORM! GO SUIT UP!
Chosen One: But I...
Navarro Guy: ARMOR! NOW!
Chosen One: I think...
Navarro Guy: ARMOOOOOOOOOR!!!
Chosen One: Okay!!! Sheesh...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkKkHmFOfKE One of the best things ingame.
Post by: motorbitch on November 26, 2015, 11:21:29 am
i got one, a gauss rifle with +25% dmg, im lvl 57
there are some good to sell tho.
Post by: umiman on November 26, 2015, 11:31:05 am
Post by: WealthyRadish on November 26, 2015, 11:59:49 am
Spoiler: AWP (click to show/hide)
It seems most of the damage modifiers are multiplicative rather than additive (which is incredibly bad design but quite funny), so this gets x10.6 damage with sneaking (maybe x21.2 with the rifle perk, not sure). Still not sneaky Gauss levels, and the lack of visible damage numbers puts a damper on it, but I killed a Mirelurk queen on Survival difficulty in one hit with it.
Post by: motorbitch on November 26, 2015, 12:02:21 pm
it will do twice the damage all the time, and its a combat rifle.
Post by: Sirian on November 26, 2015, 12:49:44 pm
but you can jsut buy overseer with makes for a much better sniper.
it will do twice the damage all the time, and its a combat rifle.
In my experience, the Overseer combat rifle isn't really suited for sniping, because the fact that it fires two bullets gives it an increased spread, akin to a shotgun. It's not as bad while aiming but still far from accurate compared to an actual sniper rifle. I don't think that the combat rifle is suited for sniping anyways, it looked to me like the natural sniping rifles are the hunting rifle and bolt action pipe gun;
Post by: motorbitch on November 26, 2015, 01:09:03 pm
it gets double recoil however. it makes for a great sniper, but a bad bullet hose.
Post by: WealthyRadish on November 26, 2015, 01:47:09 pm
I was using a combat rifle as well, though. It was so stupid powerful I swapped it out for that 10mm railroad handgun, and am now just using that, the AWP, and a knife, with no armor and the goofiest outfit I can find (currently the summer shorts).
Post by: motorbitch on November 26, 2015, 02:08:15 pm
The extra bullet effect isn't double damage (the second projectile doesn't consider weapon mods and modifiers or something),thats realy good to know, thank you!
well, instigating combat rifle was better then, but got to find one first. overseer is very effective, and a guaranteed item that can be obtained quite early.
in other news: during the last 5 min, i found a plasma infused combat shotgun AND a plasma infused mini gun.
obviously not as strong as explodifyers, but still pretty damn stong i think. brings the good legendary weapon find count up to 3 for me^^
edith sais:
bah, plasma shotgun is utter shit. unlike other brands, it does not add the extra to all projectiles, but only once, shared between all the projectiles.
Post by: Gabeux on November 26, 2015, 03:03:02 pm
I think I found around 5 good legendaries. Like plasma infused sniper rifle, quick reload/quick shot assault rifle (doesn't make a lot of sense, but it was still good), two-shot plasma gun, no-reload auto shotgun (ohhh the recoil) and a few others.
Even though a lot of people disliked the legendary stuff, I like it. It's a way to get rich quickly, specially if you have the highest level of Scrounger as you can to guarantee you won't run out of ammo, because in the beggining on Survival and Very Hard difficulties, legendaries just eat your whole ammo stock.
I really want some good patches. But I'm having good fun playing enough to clear 1 area per day on survival (I'm slowly dropping videogames because my compulsion was pretty scary this time).
E: There's a Beta patch up. I'll try it out.
Post by: motorbitch on November 26, 2015, 03:34:51 pm
im on a low luck run tho. only increased it to 3 with a bubble head and one skillpoint very late in game (to get the 15% damage from bloody mess). so, early i could not pick scounger, now i dont need it anymore.
but yeah, most legendary drops are just good to be sold. i cant count how many pices of legendary leather armor ive found so far.
Post by: Gabeux on November 26, 2015, 03:50:17 pm
But tbh, on survival you really just got to use everything you have available. Mines, grenades. Throw you dog if necessary. Spend all your ammo. Punch people.
So it's a great difficulty after you already finished the game once. Otherwise it just takes too much time and becomes too tense.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on November 26, 2015, 04:24:32 pm
Well, that may be because I have too many weapons, a sniper plasma rifle, an explosive combat rifle, an incendiary combat shotgun and a fully upgraded assault rifle.
Post by: BigD145 on November 26, 2015, 04:34:06 pm
Post by: motorbitch on November 26, 2015, 05:01:59 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 26, 2015, 05:32:55 pm
Really? Survival is pretty easy for me, actually.
Well, that may be because I have too many weapons, a sniper plasma rifle, an explosive combat rifle, an incendiary combat shotgun and a fully upgraded assault rifle.
Ah, I meant early game. It's the most fun when you have to make do with what you have.
Even then, you have to keep exploring more advanced areas, otherwise you start killing people with 1-3 hits, then it becomes Normal with lower regen. ::)
It feels good tho.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 26, 2015, 06:48:40 pm
Post by: Gabeux on November 26, 2015, 07:43:00 pm
I got much less lag and stutter, and disabling Godrays on launcher now disables it for good.
Didn't play on my lvl 71 post-ending save though. Playing on that around highly populated urban areas is usually bug/glitch hell, like the disappearing gun bug.
Also, flying on vertibirds almost makes my graphics card catch on fire. I'll probably test that once the stable patch is released.
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 26, 2015, 09:00:07 pm
Poor cats.
Post by: Catmeat on November 26, 2015, 09:51:48 pm
Having ballistic fibre clothing is a god send, its like wearing t45a.
Im wearing army fatigues full heavy shadowed combat gear and I laugh in the face of lead based projectiles.
Most the basic clothing can be upgraded. Just not the clothing that counts as a full armor set, which is lame. Weak sauce beth
Post by: motorbitch on November 26, 2015, 11:57:48 pm
Quote
If the player destroys any of Virgil's turret defenses, spotlight, or Protectron prior to returning to complete the quest "The Glowing Sea" you will immediately fail the quest upon re-entering Rocky Cave with the serum.
If upon getting the serum the player waits before bringing it to Virgil for around a week, he (Virgil) is then found completely turned, hostile and quest "The Glowing Sea" will immediately fail upon re-entering Rocky Cave.
If the player or any of their companions is wearing Power Armor when entering Rocky Cave, the misc quest to give him the serum will fail and Virgil will become hostile along with his Protectron and turrets.
that failing if waiting to long, ok, no problem here.
but failing the quest possibly 50h after you -maybe accidently- destroyed a lamp - without any effect at the time you break the blub-, thats already VERY retarded.
but then the last one - wearing the power armor - IN THE BLOODY GLOWING SEA WHAT ELSE WILL I WEAR FOR FUCKS SAKE - fails the quest, thats to over the top shit, i dont even.
anyway, if you havnt been there, you now have been warned. quest doesnt like you to wear fancy stuff. cause, reasons.
Post by: MarcAFK on November 27, 2015, 12:12:09 am
I've seen people throwing around bodies and doing interior decorating, I read somewhere you just hold E but it doesn't seem to do anything.
Post by: motorbitch on November 27, 2015, 12:54:40 am
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on November 27, 2015, 01:02:22 am
Post by: scriver on November 27, 2015, 01:11:15 am
Post by: Gabeux on November 27, 2015, 01:11:39 am
but then the last one - wearing the power armor - IN THE BLOODY GLOWING SEA WHAT ELSE WILL I WEAR FOR FUCKS SAKE - fails the quest, thats to over the top shit, i dont even.
anyway, if you havnt been there, you now have been warned. quest doesnt like you to wear fancy stuff. cause, reasons.
It's all bugs, so it's not really by design.
Wearing Power Armor can break a few other quests, including very important ones.
So if anyone experience any quest-related bizarre stuff, try leaving your power armor and trying again.
It's weird that they didn't patch it already, though.
How can I put this... It can break the final mission, and it won't be exactly clear that it's broken until you push a button and nothing happens. It also weirdly break a terminal or two.
I've seen videos of people without that bug, though, so it doesn't seem to be a certain thing either..but happened to me twice.
Post by: Tack on November 27, 2015, 04:22:23 am
Kills the buzz a little.
Post by: Yoink on November 27, 2015, 04:41:22 am
Yeah, had the very first mission of the Brotherhood "get in a vertibird, go f*ck sh*t up" bug out because I was wearing power armor.Damn, really? It worked fine for me and it was great fun indeed.
Kills the buzz a little.
That sucks. Another reminder to quicksave frequently, no matter the situation, I suppose...
Post by: Zangi on November 27, 2015, 04:49:45 am
Multiple saves... cause you can overwrite the save before the trigger.Yeah, had the very first mission of the Brotherhood "get in a vertibird, go f*ck sh*t up" bug out because I was wearing power armor.Damn, really? It worked fine for me and it was great fun indeed.
Kills the buzz a little.
That sucks. Another reminder to quicksave frequently, no matter the situation, I suppose...
Post by: Teneb on November 27, 2015, 06:10:59 am
but then the last one - wearing the power armor - IN THE BLOODY GLOWING SEA WHAT ELSE WILL I WEAR FOR FUCKS SAKE - fails the quest, thats to over the top shit, i dont even.I'd like to point out that this is not a guaranteed thing. I did deliver the serum while wearing power armour, with Danse (who pretty much never takes his off) as my companion, too. Save often, as with any other Bethesda game.
anyway, if you havnt been there, you now have been warned. quest doesnt like you to wear fancy stuff. cause, reasons.
Post by: marples on November 27, 2015, 06:57:24 am
Post by: BFEL on November 27, 2015, 08:01:20 am
It's the X-01 armour that sends him hostile.Maybe Virgil has had experience with the enclave? :P
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on November 27, 2015, 08:11:30 am
It's the X-01 armour that sends him hostile.Maybe Virgil has had experience with the enclave? :P
Which is strange as the X-01 doesn't actually bear any Enclave sigils unlike the Advanced Power Armors the Enclave traditionally wears. Though the appearance and head does tend towards the general styling.
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 27, 2015, 08:17:51 am
QuoteIf the player destroys any of Virgil's turret defenses, spotlight, or Protectron prior to returning to complete the quest "The Glowing Sea" you will immediately fail the quest upon re-entering Rocky Cave with the serum.
If upon getting the serum the player waits before bringing it to Virgil for around a week, he (Virgil) is then found completely turned, hostile and quest "The Glowing Sea" will immediately fail upon re-entering Rocky Cave.
If the player or any of their companions is wearing Power Armor when entering Rocky Cave, the misc quest to give him the serum will fail and Virgil will become hostile along with his Protectron and turrets.
Interesting. When I first talked to Virgil, both me and my companion were wearing power armor and I blew up his turrets reflexively (and accidentally stole something for good measure), but I didn't fail the quest.
Post by: BFEL on November 27, 2015, 08:21:17 am
Sorry to bring this back up, but wanted to point out that The Raider LeaderI've finished it at level 50.
I'm not sure how people can have a problem with the writing here and look back at FO3 as a positive example. Unless they miss the goofyness, I guess.
Now, if I put together everything correctly (since I couldn't really just ask anyone directly about these things), the true villain of the story isSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Think I'll replay it with a melee build, see how viable that is since I spent most of the game creeping around and shooting headshots.Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: MarcAFK on November 27, 2015, 10:26:14 am
All I really need is a mod to increase random spawns, the worlds too empty :(
Post by: Tellemurius on November 27, 2015, 10:44:34 am
-snip
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 27, 2015, 10:58:26 am
As it turns out it wasn't. A supermutant suicider was two feet away when I arrived and immediately blew up.
Post by: Gabeux on November 27, 2015, 12:05:41 pm
Sorry to bring this back up, but wanted to point out that The Raider LeaderI've finished it at level 50.
I'm not sure how people can have a problem with the writing here and look back at FO3 as a positive example. Unless they miss the goofyness, I guess.
Now, if I put together everything correctly (since I couldn't really just ask anyone directly about these things), the true villain of the story isSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Think I'll replay it with a melee build, see how viable that is since I spent most of the game creeping around and shooting headshots.Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Putnam on November 27, 2015, 04:06:50 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on November 27, 2015, 04:13:15 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 27, 2015, 04:47:05 pm
so what's up with bethesda seeming to be under the opinion that mercenary companies shoot random people on sight like madmenOh oops. I thought Jagged Alliance 2 was just impossibly difficult :P
Post by: marples on November 27, 2015, 05:14:50 pm
so what's up with bethesda seeming to be under the opinion that mercenary companies shoot random people on sight like madmen
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Teneb on November 27, 2015, 05:31:24 pm
I like to think the Gunners are pretty much looking to take over the Commonwealth, and are hostile to anyone that seems willing to fight for any reason at all (since then it means one less reason for the Gunners to be hired). Of course, I've yet to see any indication that this is the case.so what's up with bethesda seeming to be under the opinion that mercenary companies shoot random people on sight like madmenSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Jacob/Lee on November 27, 2015, 05:33:56 pm
I did almost one-shot a Dominator by doming it with a five-crank laser musket, but I've yet to repeat that little trick.
It's weird finding an enemy that can actually kill me at level 35 with power armor. :P
Post by: Flying Dice on November 27, 2015, 05:58:51 pm
Post by: Virtz on November 27, 2015, 06:10:37 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on November 27, 2015, 06:41:24 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 27, 2015, 06:59:09 pm
Mm, it was nice to see Bethesda pull out an enemy that's dangerous because of its high damage and difficult-to-avoid attack patterns instead of giant health pools or being impossible to shoot.
Don't worry Bethesda has you covered with its super high damage, difficult to avoid, bullet sponge enemy that can turn invisible at will.
Because you know... those were always my favorite parts of the previous Fallout games... the large bullet sponge enemies.
Post by: DoomOnion on November 27, 2015, 07:03:01 pm
Mm, it was nice to see Bethesda pull out an enemy that's dangerous because of its high damage and difficult-to-avoid attack patterns instead of giant health pools or being impossible to shoot.
Don't worry Bethesda has you covered with its super high damage, difficult to avoid, bullet sponge enemy that can turn invisible at will.
Because you know... those were always my favorite parts of the previous Fallout games... the large bullet sponge enemies.
Frank Horrigan?
Post by: Putnam on November 27, 2015, 07:05:36 pm
Post by: MarcAFK on November 27, 2015, 08:42:37 pm
Mods I've found sofar:
One that increases AI so they shoot more often than standing around with their thumb up their butt, it reduces reload speed, fall damage ( mostly concentrated on legs now) and nerfs stealth.
One that allows slight clipping in settlement building.
One that severely reduces loot.
One that increases random spawn chance.
I might also include the mod that makes ammo craftable to counteract the reduced ammo rate.
Post by: motorbitch on November 27, 2015, 08:57:09 pm
i mean the weapons affected by the skill... it seems that are only the mini gun and the gatling laser.
got 4 point sin heavy weapons, but i guess i have to google how to reassign these perk points. such a waste.
Post by: MarcAFK on November 27, 2015, 08:58:27 pm
so is it just me or are heavy weapons crap?I need to stop using fat boys indoors. :(
Post by: BigD145 on November 27, 2015, 09:03:39 pm
Legendary Rolling Pin
GIT OFF MAH LAWN!!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Chiefwaffles on November 27, 2015, 09:24:33 pm
Post by: motorbitch on November 27, 2015, 10:03:56 pm
but fatbois are not even affected by heavy weapon skill. they are explosive.so is it just me or are heavy weapons crap?I need to stop using fat boys indoors. :(
Post by: MarcAFK on November 27, 2015, 10:12:40 pm
Everything's explosive when you have a fat boy.but fatbois are not even affected by heavy weapon skill. they are explosive.so is it just me or are heavy weapons crap?I need to stop using fat boys indoors. :(
Post by: motorbitch on November 28, 2015, 02:00:18 am
it realy was the first time i have seen these dudes not crash their flying machine into an obstakle and blowing up and this show of almost competence made me cry a little.
of course. they only survived cause i killed all the mutants and the deathclaw.
stupid bos dudes. lost all respect. im gonna murderize them all. soon. i even help them
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
institute lost all respect, too. sent me out to recover some rider synth asshole. when i meet the supposed synth super killer, some bos dudes showed up. now, im still officially friendly with these imbacils, so i thoght, let the synth handle it. hes supposed to be a one man army.
yeah. guess. he spend like an eternity getting shot incapacitated, getting up, and incapacitated again. in the end, i stole the bos dudes weapons and power core. still took the synth superkiller like 10 mins to kill two - now unarmored and unarmed- bos dudes.
so im going to kill all the synth, too.
leaves the railroad. they hadnt had much opportunity to dissapoint me. yet.
however, if they do, ill just kill them too, infect myself with fev, ally myself with the supermutants and declare myself master.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on November 28, 2015, 02:48:45 am
I think Assaultrons are the worst bots in the game. Assaultron Dominators, in particular, are worse than any enemy I've encountered. I can melee fight just about anything and reliably beat them except for the damn Assaultrons. Can't VATS them in most cases because of stealth and they swing/block too quickly for me to get many hits on with my Grognak's Axe/Chinese Officer's Sword. The laser beam is ruthless. And they constantly spit out calm lines that switch between standard robotic stuff ("Engaging at minimal range!" "The enemy must have stealth capabilities.") to sinister remarks ("You humans. Pathetic." "This fight is already over, human!")
I did almost one-shot a Dominator by doming it with a five-crank laser musket, but I've yet to repeat that little trick.
It's weird finding an enemy that can actually kill me at level 35 with power armor. :P
So Assaultrons were made by RobCo. I find it odd how they managed to make so nicely humanoid robot instead of their usual very retrofuture robots like protectrons, robobrains, sentry bots, mister handies and so on. Assaultrons don't simply fit in that picture.
Post by: Neonivek on November 28, 2015, 02:54:09 am
So Assaultrons were made by RobCo. I find it odd how they managed to make so nicely humanoid robot instead of their usual very retrofuture robots like protectrons, robobrains, sentry bots, mister handies and so on. Assaultrons don't simply fit in that picture.
Frankly they don't even look like retrofuture humanoids... hmmm
Post by: motorbitch on November 28, 2015, 07:10:46 am
one, if you finish the quest blind betraial, pam wont speak to you at all anymore, and second, if you finish some other quest, pam will only give you assasination quest but not the other quests that unlock the fibres from that other dude.
my only option to get the quest would have been to load a save some 4h old :(
anyway,i have no issue with chating if i feel cheated by the game. "set RailroadClothingArmorModAvailable to 1" allowed me to craft the stuff (tho not to finish the quest, but who cares)
Post by: Teneb on November 28, 2015, 08:39:09 am
So Assaultrons were made by RobCo. I find it odd how they managed to make so nicely humanoid robot instead of their usual very retrofuture robots like protectrons, robobrains, sentry bots, mister handies and so on. Assaultrons don't simply fit in that picture.Aren't Mister Handies, Gutsies and the like made by General Atomics? Codsworth even calls himself the pride of that company. Maybe the retrofuture stuff is made by GA while more advanced-looking stuff is made by RobCo.
Post by: Neonivek on November 28, 2015, 08:49:45 am
So Assaultrons were made by RobCo. I find it odd how they managed to make so nicely humanoid robot instead of their usual very retrofuture robots like protectrons, robobrains, sentry bots, mister handies and so on. Assaultrons don't simply fit in that picture.Aren't Mister Handies, Gutsies and the like made by General Atomics? Codsworth even calls himself the pride of that company. Maybe the retrofuture stuff is made by GA while more advanced-looking stuff is made by RobCo.
Ohhh whoops!
Post by: scriver on November 28, 2015, 09:17:16 am
Post by: BigD145 on November 28, 2015, 09:20:46 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 28, 2015, 09:21:00 am
So Assaultrons were made by RobCo. I find it odd how they managed to make so nicely humanoid robot instead of their usual very retrofuture robots like protectrons, robobrains, sentry bots, mister handies and so on. Assaultrons don't simply fit in that picture.Aren't Mister Handies, Gutsies and the like made by General Atomics? Codsworth even calls himself the pride of that company. Maybe the retrofuture stuff is made by GA while more advanced-looking stuff is made by RobCo.
Ohhh whoops!
RobCo produced Assaultrons, Protectrons, Securitrons, and assisted in the production of Mr Handys (and thus I assume Mr Gutsys, as well), though Mr Handys were a primarily GA product.
GA also made robobrains.
Post by: BFEL on November 28, 2015, 09:31:48 am
Companies that make civilian and military hardware can and do design them in vastly different ways. I think it's strange (and potentially lazy on Bethesda's part) to have household robots with flamethrowers. Same model no matter the application.Well presumably the flamethrowers were intended to be used more...sparingly by the Handy's as a cooking implement, but the bots figured out how to use it as a weapon come the apocalypse.
Post by: scriver on November 28, 2015, 09:32:13 am
Companies that make civilian and military hardware can and do design them in vastly different ways. I think it's strange (and potentially lazy on Bethesda's part) to have household robots with flamethrowers. Same model no matter the application.
But how would they cook flambé without it?
Also. Hearing the second part of Butcher Pete has left me no less uncertain of whether it's about murder or about sex.
Post by: Neonivek on November 28, 2015, 09:49:37 am
Companies that make civilian and military hardware can and do design them in vastly different ways. I think it's strange (and potentially lazy on Bethesda's part) to have household robots with flamethrowers. Same model no matter the application.Well presumably the flamethrowers were intended to be used more...sparingly by the Handy's as a cooking implement, but the bots figured out how to use it as a weapon come the apocalypse.
Well Mr.Handyman are "technically" supposed to be construction bots (well Industrial bots)... it is quite obvious if one looks at their attachments.
I'd say this is a issue... But the Fallout series is quite known for its robots that are clearly not designed for the job they were created to do. So it very much is intentional, the fact that Mr. Handyman uses the same components as a house maid and as a construction bot fits the themes.
Post by: BigD145 on November 28, 2015, 09:54:39 am
Companies that make civilian and military hardware can and do design them in vastly different ways. I think it's strange (and potentially lazy on Bethesda's part) to have household robots with flamethrowers. Same model no matter the application.Well presumably the flamethrowers were intended to be used more...sparingly by the Handy's as a cooking implement, but the bots figured out how to use it as a weapon come the apocalypse.
Well Mr.Handyman are "technically" supposed to be construction bots (well Industrial bots)... it is quite obvious if one looks at their attachments.
I'd say this is a issue... But the Fallout series is quite known for its robots that are clearly not designed for the job they were created to do. So it very much is intentional, the fact that Mr. Handyman uses the same components as a house maid and as a construction bot fits the themes.
They're also used for military application. General Atomics and RobCo just stuck them in different boxes and advertised the same unit for different applications. While sorta funny it's a lazy way to use the same model in-game.
Post by: TheBronzePickle on November 28, 2015, 09:57:02 am
Post by: Sirian on November 28, 2015, 10:01:29 am
I like to think the Gunners are pretty much looking to take over the Commonwealth, and are hostile to anyone that seems willing to fight for any reason at all (since then it means one less reason for the Gunners to be hired). Of course, I've yet to see any indication that this is the case.so what's up with bethesda seeming to be under the opinion that mercenary companies shoot random people on sight like madmenSpoiler (click to show/hide)
I had a group of gunners attack one of my settlements once (the farm) and after the battle, the NPCs commented that the gunners were "just raiders with fancier weapons".
Post by: Jacob/Lee on November 28, 2015, 11:19:14 am
Keep in mind that pre-War Fallout represents the worst excesses of 50's American and capitalist culture. People casually take drugs during work hours to help them get through the day, OSHA is only complied with to the bare minimum (and less if the execs think they can get away with it), and anyone in any sort of position of power is completely insane, or at least has no real understanding of responsibility, because most of them were born into money in the first place and have never had to work a day in their lives.This. Safety isn't exactly a staple of Fallout industry. Notice all the defense turrets with live ammunition stationed at factories?
Post by: Neonivek on November 28, 2015, 11:21:09 am
Keep in mind that pre-War Fallout represents the worst excesses of 50's American and capitalist culture. People casually take drugs during work hours to help them get through the day, OSHA is only complied with to the bare minimum (and less if the execs think they can get away with it), and anyone in any sort of position of power is completely insane, or at least has no real understanding of responsibility, because most of them were born into money in the first place and have never had to work a day in their lives.This. Safety isn't exactly a staple of Fallout industry. Notice all the defense turrets with live ammunition stationed at factories?
I am under the distinct impression that most of those (if not all) are post-war... The fact that the Turrets aren't emplaced supports this.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 28, 2015, 11:28:12 am
Keep in mind that pre-War Fallout represents the worst excesses of 50's American and capitalist culture. People casually take drugs during work hours to help them get through the day, OSHA is only complied with to the bare minimum (and less if the execs think they can get away with it), and anyone in any sort of position of power is completely insane, or at least has no real understanding of responsibility, because most of them were born into money in the first place and have never had to work a day in their lives.This. Safety isn't exactly a staple of Fallout industry. Notice all the defense turrets with live ammunition stationed at factories?
I am under the distinct impression that most of those (if not all) are post-war... The fact that the Turrets aren't emplaced supports this.
Explain the office buildings full of turrets and mil/police robots and all the scraps of terminal lore referencing newly installed Robco security systems and lethal problems with the same.
Post by: Neonivek on November 28, 2015, 11:31:16 am
I have no idea why none of the other turrets make an appearance in this game and instead the turret, you can make yourself, manages to pop up all over the dang place.
Add in that everyone else can make it too...
Yeah I am going with Developer Laziness... or... Story vs. Gameplay Segregation...
That Office building had completely different turrets, but they used the same model.
Post by: Aseaheru on November 28, 2015, 11:59:32 am
Post by: Neonivek on November 28, 2015, 12:09:06 pm
The turrets you make yourself only appears to show up in places where people have settled in the 200 years, you can find pre-war turrets in areas that where locked up or where the technologically advanced have setup.
I haven't found those yet.
I've seen factories with turrets... but they are definitely ones they put in after being taken over by bandits.
Post by: TheDarkStar on November 28, 2015, 12:24:14 pm
The turrets you make yourself only appears to show up in places where people have settled in the 200 years, you can find pre-war turrets in areas that where locked up or where the technologically advanced have setup.
I haven't found those yet.
I've seen factories with turrets... but they are definitely ones they put in after being taken over by bandits.
Look for US army buildings; they tend to have more advanced turrets. Also in
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Jacob/Lee on November 28, 2015, 12:57:52 pm
There's plenty of those wall-mounted things in civilian buildings. There's also a research building somewhere where they explicitly have an automated defense system that triggers when intruders are detected. It has nuclear material in it, granted, but they're still live, military-grade turrets.Keep in mind that pre-War Fallout represents the worst excesses of 50's American and capitalist culture. People casually take drugs during work hours to help them get through the day, OSHA is only complied with to the bare minimum (and less if the execs think they can get away with it), and anyone in any sort of position of power is completely insane, or at least has no real understanding of responsibility, because most of them were born into money in the first place and have never had to work a day in their lives.This. Safety isn't exactly a staple of Fallout industry. Notice all the defense turrets with live ammunition stationed at factories?
I am under the distinct impression that most of those (if not all) are post-war... The fact that the Turrets aren't emplaced supports this.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 28, 2015, 12:59:43 pm
Post by: Dostoevsky on November 28, 2015, 02:20:49 pm
As to them still being around in decent condition, still having ammo, etc., I just file that in the larger bucket of Bethesda's post-war world being closer to 'just after the bombs fell' than '200 years later'.
Post by: TheBronzePickle on November 28, 2015, 02:37:33 pm
Alternately, because of the nature of the world, all the documentation for designs of simple stuff like turrets has become widely available through people breaking in, stealing the originals, and then copying and distributing them around/Vaults and Pip-Boys in particular coming pre-installed with easy-to-follow documentation and guides for most of these designs. People don't really experiment with the designs much because being able to manufacture reliable, interchangeable parts by hand is more useful than trying to innovate on a design that already works.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 28, 2015, 02:48:29 pm
Like, if there was a Gun Runners equivalent in the east that you had to buy turrets from? That'd be believable. If the turrets fit the rest of the aesthetic of the settlement-building stuff, being cobbled together mounts for small arms you've scavenged? Makes sense. This? No.
Post by: PTTG?? on November 28, 2015, 03:11:20 pm
I am kind of disappointed in the dialog options. "Hey, random dude. Instead of walking to get help, we're going to wait here until you agree to escort us into a factory and get an antenna part. Interested?"
1) Yes, I hate technology. 2) Maybe, I sometimes and noncommital about things in general. 3) (Sarcastic) Yes. (Will still help). 4) NO YUOR STUPID DOODOO PATNS!
Where is 5) "You can just walk back to base, it's less than two miles to the other side of town." or 6) "I'm tracking down a kidnapper. You can handle this on your own."
Post by: Ivefan on November 28, 2015, 03:19:41 pm
Where is 5) "You can just walk back to base, it's less than two miles to the other side of town." or 6) "I'm tracking down a kidnapper. You can handle this on your own."More than 10 years into the past.
Post by: Teneb on November 28, 2015, 03:59:34 pm
Way to lay down some spoilers, man.Where is 5) "You can just walk back to base, it's less than two miles to the other side of town." or 6) "I'm tracking down a kidnapper. You can handle this on your own."More than 10 years into the past.
Post by: poketwo on November 28, 2015, 04:03:58 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on November 28, 2015, 04:09:05 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 28, 2015, 09:32:02 pm
I am officially satisfied with this play session.
Playing it with mouse and keyboard is pretty different to gamepad, it must be said. Shame the keyboard controls were apparently designed for some kind of mutant octopus.
Post by: Sirian on November 28, 2015, 11:24:21 pm
https://madokami.com/hd2bfn.pdf (https://madokami.com/hd2bfn.pdf)Here's something /v/ did on why bethesda's fallout is so different than the others.
Yea, you know, they are Bethesda games above all, they have so much more in common with oblivion and skyrim than they have in common with fallout 1&2.
I kind of lament this new era of themepark games, because they make it much harder to suspend disbelief.
In a way, I think that one of the deep causes for this is the ever increasing degree of graphic detail. When a universe is described through words, your mind paints the whole universe. When it is described through simple graphics, your mind fills in the blanks. But when everything is shown in high res, then the mind has nothing else to do than see all that is wrong. It's like the "uncanny valley" phenomenon.
Post by: motorbitch on November 29, 2015, 02:24:30 am
i think borderlands did many things very right, tho its more like a first person diablo (sadly, without any cheat / item protection, with removes all the long time motivation diablo had).
still, if it comes to rpg on a computer, i think the main thing is to tell a story, and to let the player influence what story is told and how its told. in this regard, i enjoyed borderlands very much - even tho much of this proably came from the wierd humor and the twisted story.
sad again that the presequel was the best gameplay whise, but was so much worse then one or two if it came to story.
anyway, im drifting away. what i realy want to say is, just imagine fo3 was made by gearbox instead of borderlands.
i still love the bethesda versions, but ill be frank here, i think the engine is shit and im not a big fan of the elder scrolls.
Post by: poketwo on November 29, 2015, 03:06:34 am
as much as i loved fallout 1 and 2, i much prefer first person these days.
i think borderlands did many things very right, tho its more like a first person diablo (sadly, without any cheat / item protection, with removes all the long time motivation diablo had).
still, if it comes to rpg on a computer, i think the main thing is to tell a story, and to let the player influence what story is told and how its told. in this regard, i enjoyed borderlands very much - even tho much of this proably came from the wierd humor and the twisted story.
sad again that the presequel was the best gameplay whise, but was so much worse then one or two if it came to story.
anyway, im drifting away. what i realy want to say is, just imagine fo3 was made by gearbox instead of borderlands.
i still love the bethesda versions, but ill be frank here, i think the engine is shit and im not a big fan of the elder scrolls.
In regards to Gamebro engine, thats what happens when said engine is almost 15 years old! With only slight modifications to barely run on the current generation.
Post by: miauw62 on November 29, 2015, 03:50:59 am
Post by: Flying Dice on November 29, 2015, 03:56:36 am
Post by: motorbitch on November 29, 2015, 05:42:46 am
Post by: Virtz on November 29, 2015, 05:51:57 am
anyway, im drifting away. what i realy want to say is, just imagine fo3 was made by gearbox instead of borderlands.Sounds like it'd be a worse RPG and a worse Action game. More bullet sponge, less choice, less stats, less complexity, class-based, pre-defined characters, way more randumb internet-level humour. It's like everything bad about FO3 magnified and then some.
Post by: motorbitch on November 29, 2015, 06:23:51 am
no matter who had made fallout3, it would have had the special system, the perks and a lot of text.
anyway. speculations.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on November 29, 2015, 08:25:48 am
Though it'd probably be about as linear as Fallout 4 was in retrospect.
Post by: Rolan7 on November 29, 2015, 08:45:13 am
I really liked Fallout 2 but I don't know if that experience can be captured in a FPS. It could be 3D and pretty, but maybe not first person. I'd choose XCOM style where the game goes "over the shoulder" for certain maneuvers and kills.
Anyway I'm going to play more Fallout 4. It's like Borderlands (which I LOVED) plus some kinda dumb base building, and a setting which is recognizably similar to the Fallout series. All wrapped around, yeah, Oblivion with guns. I'm enjoying it, it's pretty good.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 29, 2015, 08:48:55 am
Post by: Virtz on November 29, 2015, 09:08:09 am
The story and gameplay would've suffered heavily for Fallout, as they have the exact same styling of story within their newest shooter Battleborn. Fallout was never intended to be as memeish as Borderlands is now, even with the most random side missions and weirdness that was in Fallout 2.What choices do you get in Borderlands? As far as I remember, it was fucking nothing. It had mmo quest design. Hardly the same level of linearity.
Though it'd probably be about as linear as Fallout 4 was in retrospect.
Fallout 1 and 2 were pretty memeish though. Which I think works better in a top-down game with so much text? When you come across a random encounter that's literally a giant Monty Python reference, I feel like it's easier to suspend disbelief if you aren't in first person with voice acting.Fallout 1 and 2 had pop-culture references in easter eggs (and elsewhere in 2). Not horrendous internet memes.
Post by: miauw62 on November 29, 2015, 09:14:30 am
Post by: Ivefan on November 29, 2015, 09:17:04 am
What choices do you get in Borderlands? As far as I remember, it was fucking nothing. It had mmo quest design. Hardly the same level of linearity.The choices of borderlands are five.
Character, skillset, guns, Do side quest Y/N and when to do quest.
Borderlands was enjoyable and had an amusing plot, but it ain't an rpg in my opinion.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 29, 2015, 09:17:19 am
and the difference between those two is...?Which one they are depends on whether he likes them or not.
Post by: BFEL on November 29, 2015, 09:27:57 am
Also, FUCK randomized weapons. Fuck them with a one bullet clip that does no damage because it was randomized and terrible.
When I bought Borderlands, I kinda expected a different game then what I got.
Fallout 4 is what I wanted Borderlands to be, but it is NOT what I wanted Fallout to be.
Post by: motorbitch on November 29, 2015, 11:14:24 am
but thats beside the point. noone could seriously want a borderline style game design for fallout.
anyway, im sorry i have derailed this topic so much. it was not my intention to start the discussion if bl is an rpg or a game rpg players would enjoy.
in other news, i just finished the game \o/
went with the railroad, the other factions all pissed me off to much. didnt like the ending at all. just blow everything up seems like a very unrational idea. who would do that in a world where most infrastructure is destroyed anyway?
also i just got some shot video. i hoped against all hope for a more traditional fallout ending, with would inform me about the consequences of the decissions i made during the game.
Post by: Twinwolf on November 29, 2015, 11:15:32 am
Post by: Flying Dice on November 29, 2015, 11:31:53 am
Okay yeah I'm done arguing this point.
Post by: Virtz on November 29, 2015, 11:34:52 am
and the difference between those two is...?The way I see it, general pop-culture is more selective, internet pop-culture is not. Hence how general pop-culture references, such as those in Fallout 1 and 2, will include things like Indiana Jones, Star Trek, or Doctor Who, whereas internet pop-culture will include things like MS Paint faces, cat pictures and doge. Low-effort crap, often loud and obnoxious, that exists in internet pop-culture just because it got repeated a lot with minor alterations that, a lot of the time, made them funny in certain specific contexts rather than being worthwhile on their own. It's like the difference between making jokes between friends where really stupid shit is acceptable and funny in the right context, and trying to write jokes you intend to present to an actual broad audience.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 29, 2015, 11:43:27 am
Post by: Virtz on November 29, 2015, 11:45:56 am
Wow. You just argued that references to Indiana Jones, Star Trek, and Doctor Who isn't obnoxious low-effort crap, as if they weren't shoehorned in to every possible situation by legions of idiots with no imagination just as much as any other meme. That's like saying that referencing Monty Python and the Holy Grail when you're playing a tabletop RPG is fresh and inspired. And that's terrible.That's not what I said. I called the thing being referenced crap, not the reference itself.
Post by: Neonivek on November 29, 2015, 11:54:40 am
Vault Spoilers... one of the early vaults
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also curse you game! I had Turret control protocols but I was stupid and forgot to eject it and now it is who knows where. Why developers why!?!
--
Finally turned my resource deficiency around... I guess looting everything bare has its advantages.
I kind of want to make a list of every object in the game that is surprisingly useful for example
1) Pencils: One of the few sources of lead... which is odd given that Pencils never had lead EVER.
2) Teddybears: Leather (and you need a lot of leather)
3) Fallout Boardgame: Radioactive material O_O
4) Baseballs: Cork!
5) Paint: Oil... Though to be fair, I thought this would be Lead given the time period.
6) Life Preservers: Screw? Wait what?
7) Cigarette packages/packs: Your best source of Asbestos, you will never need to carry fire extinguishers again.
8) Cooking Pot: Copper, note that all other "Cooking" items contain only steel
9) Coffee Pot: Asbestos and something else.
As well as ones that are oddly useless
1) test tubes and beakers: Only Glass, no crystal here
2) Cryogenic pumps: Only steel?
3) Scalpels: Only steel... only a surprise if you know what some can be made of.
4) Mop: Wood and Steel.
Though I probably should just make a list of objects you never need to pick up. But that would be a long list
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on November 29, 2015, 12:43:40 pm
Quote
1) Pencils: One of the few sources of lead... which is odd given that Pencils never had lead EVER.
Actually the paint on the outside of pencils at one point contained very high concentrations of lead, which commonly gave kids lead poisoning when they chewed on it.
That and considering this fallout universe has actual radioactive materials within soft drinks, I'm sure it might actually be lead rather then Graphite inside the pencils.
Post by: Neonivek on November 29, 2015, 01:07:56 pm
That and considering this fallout universe has actual radioactive materials within soft drinks, I'm sure it might actually be lead rather then Graphite inside the pencils.
>_> Unfortunately... that kind of... actually happened.
I wish Fallout made it up.
Post by: Shooer on November 29, 2015, 01:49:10 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My main complaint that of the vaults in the game 2 share a ridiculously close theme.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Neonivek on November 29, 2015, 02:29:24 pm
Unless they SPECIFICALLY state something... and spell it out to you. It isn't true.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 29, 2015, 03:22:13 pm
Really? So DF is crap because of the shitty magma meme? Or are you talking about stuff that's wholly self-contained and self-referential like the Navy Seal copypasta, where calling the thing being referenced crap is functionally equivalent to calling the reference crap?Wow. You just argued that references to Indiana Jones, Star Trek, and Doctor Who isn't obnoxious low-effort crap, as if they weren't shoehorned in to every possible situation by legions of idiots with no imagination just as much as any other meme. That's like saying that referencing Monty Python and the Holy Grail when you're playing a tabletop RPG is fresh and inspired. And that's terrible.That's not what I said. I called the thing being referenced crap, not the reference itself.
Not to mention that you're dodging the point. Why are shitty overplayed internet memes bad while shitty overplayed references to TV shows and movies are good? Both tend to be exclusionary and not particularly funny after the second or third time, never mind the two thousandth. Both are essentially social keys that help to bind in-groups together as part of shared culture. Neither are objectively bad, either, and mostly tend to be derided by people who aren't particularly self-aware but want to rag on an in-group that they don't think they belong to.
Post by: Greiger on November 29, 2015, 03:45:35 pm
Spoiler: Question (click to show/hide)
Post by: Neonivek on November 29, 2015, 03:51:38 pm
Spoilered for actual possible spoilers.Spoiler: Question (click to show/hide)
You unfortunate HAVE to if you go that route.
As for missing something well...
The sales woman sells some unique weapons including a really amazing combat shotgun.
Post by: Greiger on November 29, 2015, 03:55:29 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Neonivek on November 29, 2015, 04:01:01 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 29, 2015, 04:15:24 pm
Spoiler: My game randomly became an abstract wallpaper (warning, large image) (click to show/hide)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on November 29, 2015, 04:19:32 pm
Or let me tag some items I consider trash, as trash.
Post by: Virtz on November 29, 2015, 04:46:43 pm
Spoiler: Offtopic nonsense about memes (click to show/hide)
This happened to me because I had the "wetness" graphical setting on and it started raining. I think my laptop couldn't handle it.Spoiler: My game randomly became an abstract wallpaper (warning, large image) (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rolan7 on November 29, 2015, 07:08:34 pm
Not sure if this has already been answered, but is there a mod to make supply lines share *all* items instead of just junk? I don't want to worry about where I left the fat man or whatever, and I'm especially not crazy about having to pick up food and water in person. I'm still trying to avoid fast travel as much as is comfortable.
Spoiler: Minutemen Armory (click to show/hide)
Post by: JimboM12 on November 29, 2015, 07:37:58 pm
I've been having an issue sorta kinda like that, except that every turns zany colors and then models start getting corrupted (the vertices go all over the place, stretching them everywhere). It's fairly uncommon though, and restarting seems to fix it. Maybe if I turn off the wetness, it'll get better (the shininess looks a little silly anyway).
Not sure if this has already been answered, but is there a mod to make supply lines share *all* items instead of just junk? I don't want to worry about where I left the fat man or whatever, and I'm especially not crazy about having to pick up food and water in person. I'm still trying to avoid fast travel as much as is comfortable.Spoiler: Minutemen Armory (click to show/hide)
About those cannons, i think having more within an area will cause more rounds to be fired on your beacon; its like, 4 shots per cannon within range so there is a reason for that. I threw one near 4 settlements recently and had like, 16 bombs get dropped on a deathclaws head, so yeah, more cannons equals more boom-boom.
Also, having settlement produced items get linked too would be sooooo legit. But it'd also be kinda OP, i have max level stores at sanctuary and it would be too easy to convert all that pure water and tatos into caps.
Post by: TheBronzePickle on November 29, 2015, 08:02:13 pm
4 salvos of 9 artillery shells with the rough blast radius of mininukes have a bad tendency to raze everything that can be razed.
Post by: Dostoevsky on November 29, 2015, 11:54:23 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on November 30, 2015, 12:40:44 am
Spoiler: The Slog/Ghouls drunk reaction (click to show/hide)
Also, blast from the past:
The Courier is still my favorite name for a protagonist. Just has this lovely ring to it.Same here.
Post by: Neonivek on November 30, 2015, 05:15:11 am
Is that true?
Post by: cerapa on November 30, 2015, 05:25:27 am
Post by: scriver on November 30, 2015, 06:11:19 am
What an asshole.
Post by: motorbitch on November 30, 2015, 07:20:57 am
I joined both. Nothing bad happened. Didn't do much for the BOS though. Only faction that got killed for me was the Institute. It's sad that I can't leave them all alive, I wanted to loot and occupy the Institute, but nope, gotta nuke it.yeah, as said. for me it doesnt make much sense to blow all the stuff up if you could just conquer it as well.
Post by: TrashMan on November 30, 2015, 08:32:18 am
It fails as a RPG on every front.
The only thing they improved is gunplay and power armor feel. Everything else is horrible.
Awful dialogue, no choices, lore rape left and right, unkillable NPC's everywhere, fixed protagonist, railroading, poor optimization, shallow features, etc..
Post by: Cyroth on November 30, 2015, 09:44:39 am
Fucking Travis keeps pulling his gun.
What an asshole.
The bar fight?
Yeah, had a similar problem. Curie kept lasering the entire bar to death.
Had to load an older save and drop her off in front of the door like some mutt.
Post by: Ivefan on November 30, 2015, 09:50:46 am
Fallout 4 is a massive dissapointment.Shame on you for having such high expectations.
Post by: Neonivek on November 30, 2015, 10:00:38 am
Fallout 4 is a massive dissapointment.
It fails as a RPG on every front.
The only thing they improved is gunplay and power armor feel. Everything else is horrible.
Awful dialogue, no choices, lore rape left and right, unkillable NPC's everywhere, fixed protagonist, railroading, poor optimization, shallow features, etc..
Oddly enough one of the major reasons I never use power armor is how extremely inconvenient it is to pilot. Its UI is garbagio :P
Intentionally mind you... but that doesn't mean I still like using it.
Post by: Greenbane on November 30, 2015, 10:51:41 am
Oddly enough one of the major reasons I never use power armor is how extremely inconvenient it is to pilot. Its UI is garbagio :P
Intentionally mind you... but that doesn't mean I still like using it.
I just had power armour on my mind. I'm a bit disappointed they made them cooler and more distinct from regular armour, but rather at odds with stealthy gameplay (if rumours that armour weight significantly affects stealth potential are to be believed). But my main problem with PA, indirectly related, is Fusion Cores. Their rarity and inexorable decay imposes a time limit which prevents slower-paced gameplay and free exploration.
"Fusion Core" ends up being a fancy, clueless term for cheap battery, since the whole point of an atomic battery is very long life. Measured in years or decades, not minutes.
Post by: scriver on November 30, 2015, 10:57:44 am
First vehicle mod I'm looking forward to though: Grocery Carts.
Post by: Krevsin on November 30, 2015, 11:20:40 am
You'd almost think they tried to make power armor different and distinctive from ordinary armor instead of the end-all-be-all armor of choice for the majority of the game. You're not supposed to wear it everywhere you go unless you are willing to stock up on fusion cores first. IMO it's a neat economy thing and it makes PA feel more distinctive from a stat boost that is flat out superior to every other piece of armor in the game. It makes it feel, for lack of a better term, special.Oddly enough one of the major reasons I never use power armor is how extremely inconvenient it is to pilot. Its UI is garbagio :P
Intentionally mind you... but that doesn't mean I still like using it.
I just had power armour on my mind. I'm a bit disappointed they made them cooler and more distinct from regular armour, but rather at odds with stealthy gameplay (if rumours that armour weight significantly affects stealth potential are to be believed). But my main problem with PA, indirectly related, is Fusion Cores. Their rarity and inexorable decay imposes a time limit which prevents slower-paced gameplay and free exploration.
"Fusion Core" ends up being a fancy, clueless term for cheap battery, since the whole point of an atomic battery is very long life. Measured in years or decades, not minutes.
Besides, fusion cores are not THAT rare. Sure, they're not strewn about all over the place but they're not the rarest or even the most desirable item in the game. That honor goes to anything with adhesive.
Post by: Aseaheru on November 30, 2015, 11:24:36 am
/me finds twenty in one low-level bandit hideout
Post by: Antioch on November 30, 2015, 11:25:12 am
Besides, fusion cores are not THAT rare. Sure, they're not strewn about all over the place but they're not the rarest or even the most desirable item in the game. That honor goes to anything with adhesive.
one word: vegetable starch
Post by: Antioch on November 30, 2015, 11:29:09 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Neonivek on November 30, 2015, 11:34:10 am
Without trying I racked up 37 and I can buy up to 3 a shot from my weapon stores.
I could spend the rest of the game in power armor if I wanted to.
No, what will really limit your power armor usage more then power cores... Is the fact that your armor is going to break, and once it breaks it is gone.
"Besides, fusion cores are not THAT rare. Sure, they're not strewn about all over the place but they're not the rarest or even the most desirable item in the game. That honor goes to anything with adhesive."
Sorry but there are quite a few other materials that deserve that honor. There are so many alternative ways to get all the Adhesive you need.
Lead and Gold are both FAR rarer and harder to get on mass... In fact I know only two junk items with lead (other then lead) and they are pencils and Old Batteries. With Gold being absolutely essential if your going for tech upgrades.
Post by: Krevsin on November 30, 2015, 11:36:26 am
I have a settlement dedicated entirely to the production of that thing and I STILL run out. Though that might be due to my obsession with mass producing weapons and armor for my troops, err, I mean settlers.
Besides, fusion cores are not THAT rare. Sure, they're not strewn about all over the place but they're not the rarest or even the most desirable item in the game. That honor goes to anything with adhesive.
one word: vegetable starch
At least getting screws becomes trivial once you get the Scrapper perk. Then, all of the pipe weapons start being useful.
After beating about 1/3rd of the game... MAYBE 2/5ths... I can say that if you really want to, you can have all the fusion cores you will ever need.Err, no. It's just moved to your inventory and cannot be equipped. You can repair it at any power armor station and put it back onto the frame.
Without trying I racked up 37 and I can buy up to 3 a shot from my weapon stores.
I could spend the rest of the game in power armor if I wanted to.
No, what will really limit your power armor usage more then power cores... Is the fact that your armor is going to break, and once it breaks it is gone.
Post by: Neonivek on November 30, 2015, 11:39:13 am
As for screws... unfortunately pipe weapons don't give screws... at least not pipe pistols.
Post by: Krevsin on November 30, 2015, 11:44:18 am
Ohh that is great to know! Now I can deal with those dang gamma guns!You need the scrapper perk. It's under Intelligence.
As for screws... unfortunately pipe weapons don't give screws... at least not pipe pistols.
With the second rank, all of those Institute weapons become useful since you can get some pretty nifty stuff from them.
Speaking of the Institute weapons, is there a mod out there that resizes them a bit? Because really, they are entirely too big. They take up almost half of my screen FFS.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 30, 2015, 11:46:06 am
Post by: Neonivek on November 30, 2015, 11:48:24 am
You need the scrapper perk. It's under Intelligence.
I know... Unfortunately some weapons just don't give anything extra when you scrap them.
Mind you I believe "mods" when you scrap it apply to what you get. So that can get you it...
But Pipe weapons on their own do not offer anything but metal.
Post by: PTTG?? on November 30, 2015, 11:48:48 am
Post by: Krevsin on November 30, 2015, 11:52:08 am
Yeah, but TBH modified pipe weapons are common as dirt.You need the scrapper perk. It's under Intelligence.
I know... Unfortunately some weapons just don't give anything extra when you scrap them.
Mind you I believe "mods" when you scrap it apply to what you get. So that can get you it...
But Pipe weapons on their own do not offer anything but metal.
Post by: BigD145 on November 30, 2015, 12:25:44 pm
Oddly enough one of the major reasons I never use power armor is how extremely inconvenient it is to pilot. Its UI is garbagio :P
Intentionally mind you... but that doesn't mean I still like using it.
I just had power armour on my mind. I'm a bit disappointed they made them cooler and more distinct from regular armour, but rather at odds with stealthy gameplay (if rumours that armour weight significantly affects stealth potential are to be believed).
There's a stealth mod for power armor.
Post by: Neonivek on November 30, 2015, 12:26:59 pm
I have no idea if you can charge power cores though.
Post by: Aseaheru on November 30, 2015, 12:48:45 pm
Post by: scriver on November 30, 2015, 12:53:07 pm
If this was a new franchise, it would be fantastic. It's a miserable Fallout game but a very good "spiritual successor to fallout."
It's a miserable Fallout game and a miserable spiritual sequel.
Wasteland 2 was a pretty good spiritual sequel though ;)
Post by: Virtz on November 30, 2015, 12:59:41 pm
Spoiler: The Slog/Ghouls drunk reaction (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
ending spoilersSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Fallout 4 is a massive dissapointment.I'm not sure what you expected after FO3 (and Skyrim). Personally I find it's at least a decent action game, which is more than I could say about 3 or Oblibion. And it actually feels like it's trying to undo some of the lore-rape from FO3 ("water purifiers? PFT! We've got a dozen producing enough to water a desert here!").
It fails as a RPG on every front.
The only thing they improved is gunplay and power armor feel. Everything else is horrible.
Awful dialogue, no choices, lore rape left and right, unkillable NPC's everywhere, fixed protagonist, railroading, poor optimization, shallow features, etc..
Post by: Greenbane on November 30, 2015, 01:11:54 pm
Yeah, power cores are scarce for all of about twenty minutes. The only way you'll run out after the very early game is if you literally sprint everywhere in your PA.
I travel crouched and explore a lot, so I suppose that amounts to the same a sprinting everywhere, for power consumption purposes. If only that was proportional to movement speed...
I've found about 11-12 Fusion Cores in 24-25 hours or so. Used a couple recently during a brief spell of PA usage, and I'll have to give up 3 to enter a certain place, so that leaves me with 6-7 cores if I seriously commit to PA. Granted, I could find more cores before those run out, but it seems quite tight for my taste when I've found one core every two hours on average so far. Which means I'd be consuming cores four times as fast as I'm finding them.
We'll see. Anyway, not that I'm an old-school Fallout expert, but where's the lore-rape? Why do some people take as gospel what they tell you in FO1 and FO2's very geographically limited settings?
Post by: Neonivek on November 30, 2015, 01:17:18 pm
Ghouls that have "Turned Feral" existed in the series for a while. All it really takes is some form of brain damage.
The majority of feral ghouls are ones who suffered from radiation damage to the brain before ghoulness kicked in. Yet others have existed such as ghouls that have suffered extensive sunstroke from walking in the hot desert.
This is because the term "Feral Ghoul" Is based on a result not a particular set of circumstances.
Anyway, not that I'm an old-school Fallout expert, but where's the lore-rape? Why do some people take as gospel what they tell you in FO1 and FO2's very geographically limited settings?
I do honestly think the lore in Fallout 4 is kind of weak and the way it handles things is much weaker then the other series.
At LEAST Fallout 3 made an excuse as to why there were crazy evil super mutants. Fallout 4? no
The worst IMO is the institute which was neutral/notevil in Fallout 3 yet has been upgraded to cartoon villainy in the 4th...
Post by: Krevsin on November 30, 2015, 01:33:12 pm
At LEAST Fallout 3 made an excuse as to why there were crazy evil super mutants. Fallout 4? nosomething something Institute something something. :P
Basically the Institute are the reason for everything bad in the commonwealth (pretty much). Though I wouldn't say they are cartoonishly evil.
Spoiler: srsorz spoilage gaize (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on November 30, 2015, 01:59:29 pm
*ahem*
Ghouls that have "Turned Feral" existed in the series for a while.
Since F3.
I don't particularly kind the addition though. Only problem with them is how there's so many of them left after 200 years, or how there was enough ghouls to go feral in the first place. But that's the same logistics problem that every bethout enemy brings up (raiders etc) and has nothing to do with feral ghouls in itself.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on November 30, 2015, 02:09:09 pm
*ahem*
Ghouls that have "Turned Feral" existed in the series for a while.
Since F3.
I don't particularly kind the addition though. Only problem with them is how there's so many of them left after 200 years, or how there was enough ghouls to go feral in the first place. But that's the same logistics problem that every bethout enemy brings up (raiders etc) and has nothing to do with feral ghouls in itself.
There were in F1 as well. They were known as "Mindless Ghouls" and "Mad Glowing ones". They were located in the vault under Necropolis, though Mindless ghouls didn't really gain claws or nothing. They were more akin to shambling hordes of zombies. F2 Had the Ghoul Crazy and Glow Crazy, so there is a precedence for insane ghouls through the series.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 30, 2015, 02:11:48 pm
No...?*ahem*
Ghouls that have "Turned Feral" existed in the series for a while.
Since F3.
I don't particularly kind the addition though. Only problem with them is how there's so many of them left after 200 years, or how there was enough ghouls to go feral in the first place. But that's the same logistics problem that every bethout enemy brings up (raiders etc) and has nothing to do with feral ghouls in itself.
They weren't called feral ghouls, but mindless ghouls (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Mindless_ghoul) existed in FO1 and ghoul crazies (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Ghoul_crazies) existed in FO2, both of which were ghousl with degraded minds that shambled forward and attacked on sight.
Feral ghouls, bro.
EDIT: i got ninja'd
Post by: Neonivek on November 30, 2015, 02:15:06 pm
But it says that they are unsure but it is possible that "all ghouls" will become Ferals eventually.
Thanks Fallout 2.
Though that is quite dark...
Also as for Ghouls being "Unfairly prejudiced" I don't think it is because Feral Ghouls... their overabundance is really just Fallout 4's doing.
It is more because they look like walking zombies and speak in creepy raspy voices... They would creep anyone out.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 30, 2015, 02:36:02 pm
Post by: scriver on November 30, 2015, 02:45:01 pm
No...?*ahem*
Ghouls that have "Turned Feral" existed in the series for a while.
Since F3.
I don't particularly kind the addition though. Only problem with them is how there's so many of them left after 200 years, or how there was enough ghouls to go feral in the first place. But that's the same logistics problem that every bethout enemy brings up (raiders etc) and has nothing to do with feral ghouls in itself.
They weren't called feral ghouls, but mindless ghouls (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Mindless_ghoul) existed in FO1 and ghoul crazies (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Ghoul_crazies) existed in FO2, both of which were ghousl with degraded minds that shambled forward and attacked on sight.
Feral ghouls, bro.
EDIT: i got ninja'd
No, those aren't the same. The "zombie" ghouls in F1 are outright stated to be under orders from Set (the leader of Necropolis) to act like zombies whenever people are nearby to scare people away (you know, the reason they call it Necropolis, the city of the dead). I can't remember any ghouls that attacked on sight in F2 unless you went into the cult's sanctum uninvited, but the cult ghouls weren't mindless either.
Bethesda's feral "their minds have degraded from too much radiation" ghouls are something completely different.
Post by: Sirian on November 30, 2015, 02:59:52 pm
No...?*ahem*
Ghouls that have "Turned Feral" existed in the series for a while.
Since F3.
I don't particularly kind the addition though. Only problem with them is how there's so many of them left after 200 years, or how there was enough ghouls to go feral in the first place. But that's the same logistics problem that every bethout enemy brings up (raiders etc) and has nothing to do with feral ghouls in itself.
They weren't called feral ghouls, but mindless ghouls (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Mindless_ghoul) existed in FO1 and ghoul crazies (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Ghoul_crazies) existed in FO2, both of which were ghousl with degraded minds that shambled forward and attacked on sight.
Feral ghouls, bro.
EDIT: i got ninja'd
No, those aren't the same. The "zombie" ghouls in F1 are outright stated to be under orders from Set (the leader of Necropolis) to act like zombies whenever people are nearby to scare people away (you know, the reason they call it Necropolis, the city of the dead). I can't remember any ghouls that attacked on sight in F2 unless you went into the cult's sanctum uninvited, but the cult ghouls weren't mindless either.
Bethesda's feral "their minds have degraded from too much radiation" ghouls are something completely different.
Well if you follow the link for "ghoul crazies", you can see evidence that they were in F2, even if you don't remember them.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 30, 2015, 03:14:31 pm
You mean the Wasteland 2 with a bunch of broken quests, broken controls, worse visual clarity than FO1, no connection between your characters' sheets and their presence in the game, extremely limited roleplaying (linked to the former point), terrible AI, repetitive environments, forced backtracking, game-breaking bugs and crashes, thoroughly shallow combat, obnoxious and repetitive ambient sounds, et-fuckin'-cetera.If this was a new franchise, it would be fantastic. It's a miserable Fallout game but a very good "spiritual successor to fallout."
It's a miserable Fallout game and a miserable spiritual sequel.
Wasteland 2 was a pretty good spiritual sequel though ;)
I see this weird-ass dichotomy come up more than it has any right to, where people lambast the 3D Fallouts out one side of their mouth for being shallow, buggy shoot'n'loot cRPGs with no roleplaying and then praise Wasteland 2 as the second coming of FO as if it wasn't worse in every single respect.
I've heard two descriptions of Wasteland 2 which I think suit it the best: It's like playing XCOM:EU on Normal with the fun replaced with bugs. It's like Fallout 2 and Fallout Tactics had a lovechild which was repeatedly dropped down flights of stairs, landing on every one with its head.
I would rather spend $60 to re-buy Fallout 1 and not play any games than spend 5$ to buy Wasteland 2 and have to play it.
Post by: scriver on November 30, 2015, 03:22:44 pm
Well if you follow the link for "ghoul crazies", you can see evidence that they were in F2, even if you don't remember them.
It features mainly information transcribed from the "Feral ghoul" article as well as texts that preclude them being the same as ferals. It also has a dialogue transcription, though, which portrays them as not being mindless in the same way feral ghouls are.
It's a miserable Fallout game and a miserable spiritual sequel.You mean the Wasteland 2 with a bunch of broken quests, broken controls, worse visual clarity than FO1, no connection between your characters' sheets and their presence in the game, extremely limited roleplaying (linked to the former point), terrible AI, repetitive environments, forced backtracking, game-breaking bugs and crashes, thoroughly shallow combat, obnoxious and repetitive ambient sounds, et-fuckin'-cetera.
Wasteland 2 was a pretty good spiritual sequel though ;)
I see this weird-ass dichotomy come up more than it has any right to, where people lambast the 3D Fallouts out one side of their mouth for being shallow, buggy shoot'n'loot cRPGs with no roleplaying and then praise Wasteland 2 as the second coming of FO as if it wasn't worse in every single respect.
I've heard two descriptions of Wasteland 2 which I think suit it the best: It's like playing XCOM:EU on Normal with the fun replaced with bugs. It's like Fallout 2 and Fallout Tactics had a lovechild which was repeatedly dropped down flights of stairs, landing on every one with its head.
I would rather spend $60 to re-buy Fallout 1 and not play any games than spend 5$ to buy Wasteland 2 and have to play it.
Wow, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. It was a joke on the fact that the original Fallout was a spiritual sequel of the original Wasteland.
Post by: Flying Dice on November 30, 2015, 03:25:22 pm
It's a miserable Fallout game and a miserable spiritual sequel.You mean the Wasteland 2 with a bunch of broken quests, broken controls, worse visual clarity than FO1, no connection between your characters' sheets and their presence in the game, extremely limited roleplaying (linked to the former point), terrible AI, repetitive environments, forced backtracking, game-breaking bugs and crashes, thoroughly shallow combat, obnoxious and repetitive ambient sounds, et-fuckin'-cetera.
Wasteland 2 was a pretty good spiritual sequel though ;)
I see this weird-ass dichotomy come up more than it has any right to, where people lambast the 3D Fallouts out one side of their mouth for being shallow, buggy shoot'n'loot cRPGs with no roleplaying and then praise Wasteland 2 as the second coming of FO as if it wasn't worse in every single respect.
I've heard two descriptions of Wasteland 2 which I think suit it the best: It's like playing XCOM:EU on Normal with the fun replaced with bugs. It's like Fallout 2 and Fallout Tactics had a lovechild which was repeatedly dropped down flights of stairs, landing on every one with its head.
I would rather spend $60 to re-buy Fallout 1 and not play any games than spend 5$ to buy Wasteland 2 and have to play it.
Wow, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. It was a joke on the fact that the original Fallout was a spiritual sequel of the original Wasteland.
I'll plead Poe's Law. Too many people genuinely praise that shitty mess as the One True Continuation of the Fallout franchise for me to tell the difference, even with the smiley.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 30, 2015, 03:38:19 pm
No...?*ahem*
Ghouls that have "Turned Feral" existed in the series for a while.
Since F3.
I don't particularly kind the addition though. Only problem with them is how there's so many of them left after 200 years, or how there was enough ghouls to go feral in the first place. But that's the same logistics problem that every bethout enemy brings up (raiders etc) and has nothing to do with feral ghouls in itself.
They weren't called feral ghouls, but mindless ghouls (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Mindless_ghoul) existed in FO1 and ghoul crazies (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Ghoul_crazies) existed in FO2, both of which were ghousl with degraded minds that shambled forward and attacked on sight.
Feral ghouls, bro.
EDIT: i got ninja'd
No, those aren't the same. The "zombie" ghouls in F1 are outright stated to be under orders from Set (the leader of Necropolis) to act like zombies whenever people are nearby to scare people away (you know, the reason they call it Necropolis, the city of the dead). I can't remember any ghouls that attacked on sight in F2 unless you went into the cult's sanctum uninvited, but the cult ghouls weren't mindless either.
Bethesda's feral "their minds have degraded from too much radiation" ghouls are something completely different.
You can encounter mindless ghouls and ghould crazies in random encounters. It must be some dedication to keep pretending when you get gunned down en masse...
In other words, sure, while some pretend, I doubt those are all fake.
They were also going to be in Van Buren, as well, called Endless Walkers, so it's not even unique from Fallout 3.
Ghouls losing their minds is not a new thing, and whatever the cause, the net result is a feral ghoul. Anything more is quibbling over semantics.
Post by: scriver on November 30, 2015, 03:57:47 pm
Post by: BFEL on November 30, 2015, 04:14:20 pm
If you make broad enough generalisations every difference becomes semantics. I think there's a pretty obvious difference in design between the two but if that's how you want to see it then we have to agree to disagree.AGREEMENT AND DISAGREEMENT ARE JUST SEMANTICS ANYWAY, so you're on the same page already!
Post by: Yoink on November 30, 2015, 05:27:46 pm
Spoiler: Vadim's first job (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tellemurius on November 30, 2015, 05:34:03 pm
Oh man, I just... well uh... I very nearly reloaded my game, but the situation was too hilarious.Spoiler: Vadim's first job (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Digital Hellhound on November 30, 2015, 05:44:22 pm
Oh man, I just... well uh... I very nearly reloaded my game, but the situation was too hilarious.Spoiler: Vadim's first job (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: IWishIWereSarah on November 30, 2015, 06:01:32 pm
Spoiler: Vadim's first job (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on November 30, 2015, 06:27:18 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I didn't think you could actually kill them.
You can kill one of them through normal means, the other is essential. But if I remember correctly there was a Skyrim bug where you could kill even essential (actually essential, and not just kinda-sorta-essential like followers) characters through the special execution animations characters would sometimes do to people with low health. It sounds like that bug is still around and is what happened for Yoink.
Some thoughts I had while playing today:
1. VATS drains my power core too quickly. It's pretty strange how my pip boy can power the VATS thingy forever (I believe that is supposed to be the ingame explanation of the feature), but as soon as I input it into the Power Armour it starts using battery like crazy. Maybe if you actually got any VATS-related bonuses for it...
2. I realised that if you pass by an cell close enough, but don't explore it because you're already 500 kgs above the limit and leaves it to come back later, all the corpses in it will despawn with time even if you haven't actually been to the cell itself (presumably because it was loaded in the distance?). I weep for all the fat lutes I have missed out on because of this.
Post by: Sirian on November 30, 2015, 07:23:43 pm
Some thoughts I had while playing today:
1. VATS drains my power core too quickly. It's pretty strange how my pip boy can power the VATS thingy forever (I believe that is supposed to be the ingame explanation of the feature), but as soon as I input it into the Power Armour it starts using battery like crazy. Maybe if you actually got any VATS-related bonuses for it...
2. I realised that if you pass by an cell close enough, but don't explore it because you're already 500 kgs above the limit and leaves it to come back later, all the corpses in it will despawn with time even if you haven't actually been to the cell itself (presumably because it was loaded in the distance?). I weep for all the fat lutes I have missed out on because of this.
I don't even try to make sense of the VATS, it doesn't fit any kind of logic or lore. As for the power armor, their cores were supposed to last for centuries of actual usage, in fallout 1/2 lore, if I recall properly.
Also AP is used when running, and something like the piezonucleic PA chest can help you recharge it faster, but power armor doesn't give you infinite AP, although it is powered by flipping fusion. In the end, it's all game mechanics so I just ignore it.
About that cell loading, it's also source of endless woes for me, I often find dead hostiles when visiting new places, and it's really frustrating that I couldn't be the one killing them. Often, I hear shooting in the distance and I go there and kill everyone but I'd rather not be forced to visit those places until I want to. Not to mention that there are areas so packed with such encounters that you could do this all day (and obviously you'd become overloaded quickly, forcing you to go back, and lose loot/xp...).
Post by: motorbitch on November 30, 2015, 08:11:53 pm
holding your breath while sniping drains the powercore.
its pretty stupid XD
well, its also kind of inconsequentual. i finished the game with 150 power cores, and i was in power armor all the time the last 2/3 of the game (untill i had to be charismatic that is, then i hoped out to stun dudes with my awsum dress)
Post by: TheBronzePickle on November 30, 2015, 08:25:34 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on November 30, 2015, 08:27:37 pm
Post by: Greiger on November 30, 2015, 08:42:04 pm
Spoiler: Just an image, not a spoiler. (click to show/hide)
Unfortunately, all the residents seem to very hesitant to get into the thing and usually hang out on the ground. I know they can get in it, because if I specifically order someone to go to a bed or the arty cannon on the roof they go there. They can also get to the beds at night (usually) but everytime I arrive they are all on the ground and mill around there til bedtime. Anyone know a possible fix to that or something wrong with the design that's causing this behavior?
I almost lost 2 settlers to to a wild dogs attack when the rocket turrets made it rain death indiscriminately.
Post by: Bluexdog on November 30, 2015, 08:48:42 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This corny joke popped into my head while killing super mutants with a fat man
Post by: MarcAFK on December 01, 2015, 04:28:30 am
So I have created a new fortress that I am slowly converting into my home base. It is powered by Sir Issac Newton spinning in his grave.I like it, I'm thinking of making an airship now. I might need a mod for the ballon.Spoiler: Just an image, not a spoiler. (click to show/hide)
Unfortunately, all the residents seem to very hesitant to get into the thing and usually hang out on the ground. I know they can get in it, because if I specifically order someone to go to a bed or the arty cannon on the roof they go there. They can also get to the beds at night (usually) but everytime I arrive they are all on the ground and mill around there til bedtime. Anyone know a possible fix to that or something wrong with the design that's causing this behavior?
I almost lost 2 settlers to to a wild dogs attack when the rocket turrets made it rain death indiscriminately.
Post by: Neonivek on December 01, 2015, 05:21:58 am
Post by: Reudh on December 01, 2015, 05:32:50 am
Aw man, this one-companion limit is a pain in the arse... I want them all to come with me!Not to fear, fair adventurer! As soon as the GECK is available, this is the first thing I'm going to work on. Also inserting a hyper aggressive munchkin who sounds like a radio DJ.
Not that they seem to be much help, from what I've seen, but they're nice to have around and interact with.
Adsfasdsdaf. I hope Mr. S will forgive me for postponing our gruesome adventures to have some gruesome adventures with another gruesome adventurer...
I fully intend to add a voiced companion when the GECK comes out, too.
Post by: scriver on December 01, 2015, 06:34:16 am
...Heeey, I see what you're planning now MZ :P
Aw man, this one-companion limit is a pain in the arse... I want them all to come with me!Not to fear, fair adventurer! As soon as the GECK is available, this is the first thing I'm going to work on. Also inserting a hyper aggressive munchkin who sounds like a radio DJ.
Not that they seem to be much help, from what I've seen, but they're nice to have around and interact with.
Adsfasdsdaf. I hope Mr. S will forgive me for postponing our gruesome adventures to have some gruesome adventures with another gruesome adventurer...
I fully intend to add a voiced companion when the GECK comes out, too.
If you do I will add a red haired Australian doctor in your honour :v
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on December 01, 2015, 10:07:26 am
I find it kind of baffling that there are more Fatmans in Fallout 4 then there are Mininukes.
Why do you think there's so few Mini-nukes in comparison then? They've been firing them all!
Post by: DoomOnion on December 01, 2015, 10:17:59 am
I bet a good amount was used by Super Mutants. Those suicide bombers? I don't even think they know what they are doing. I am willing to bet that they just know minimukes are strong enough to completely wipe out enemies, and charge with one in their hands, completely ignoring their own safety in the process.I find it kind of baffling that there are more Fatmans in Fallout 4 then there are Mininukes.
Why do you think there's so few Mini-nukes in comparison then? They've been firing them all!
Edit: It would be funny if Strong suicide-bombed enemies if he's given a mininuke.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 01, 2015, 11:52:08 am
I finally checked out the glowing sea... Not what I was expecting. Liked it a lot.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Finally used power armor. I guess it helped, but it also fell to pieces and ate up 6-7 fusion cores (and I didn't find any, or any power armor repair stations). Would probably be better if I had any points in armorer. Glad some of the things just need SCIENCE though! Also felt right for the area, even once my helmet blew off.
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 01, 2015, 11:58:43 am
By the time you're facing enemies that you really want power armor to reliably survive, you'll usually have a chance to get a T-60 suit anyway, which provides a good amount of armor that actually lasts a while before breaking, assuming you don't end up in melee with a legendary deathclaw or something.
Post by: scriver on December 01, 2015, 12:09:30 pm
It felt very wh40k-y indeed.
Post by: jocan2003 on December 01, 2015, 12:10:42 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on December 01, 2015, 12:11:21 pm
Post by: Aedel on December 01, 2015, 12:30:46 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on December 01, 2015, 12:42:54 pm
I did fine in combat because my weapons are pretty well modded. I got a nice institute laser which deals 50 extra radiation per hit... Made it into a rifle to make use of Commando, and it's working great (even against things I assume are radiation-resistant or immune). It's even overcharged, despite my having only 2 SCIENCE, I think I found an overcharged capacitor elsewhere and swapped it in.
I wish that scrapping a weapon would give you the mods instead of junk... Having to craft replacement parts for a gun you don't want is silly. Of course, that would make the crafting perks even less useful than they technically are (they're very convenient though).
Honestly most of the perks have been underwhelming, or well-balanced I guess.
5/5 Commando/Gunslinger/Rifleman: I waited a long time before getting Rifleman, and that was a mistake. Since most weapons can be customized to be automatic/pistol/rifle, even without gun-nut, one of these is practically a must-have.
3/5 Locksmith/Hacker: I want to hack/unlock everything, just in case, but honestly the loot or route is usually meh. And of course, the fourth ranks are shit. Bobby pins are cheap and plentiful, and just back out of a computer on the last try. Or savescum I guess. If you hate the hacking game (I sorta like it) Nick can hack everything for you.
2/5 Lifegiver: 60HP for 3 ranks isn't that great, and the regen for rank 3 is slow. Pretty sure it doesn't work in combat at all, so it only saves you a few healing items.
4/5 Attack Dog: Rank one of this is so great that I don't regret taking it, even though I'm working with other companions now. It stuns an enemy *and* makes them a lot easier to hit, for a decent amount of time. Rank 2 and 3 sound bad. Take with Lone Wanderer.
?/5 Lone Wanderer: This looks amazing, once you know that Dogmeat *doesn't count*. Really should have had him in the picture for it.
3/5 Mysterious Stranger: This is mostly just fun. Though occasionally it does come in useful... The stranger can finish off an enemy with far more health than I expected. And I just love Nick's reactions, and the silliness of it. (It's also just rare enough that it's a pleasant surprise when it fires)
3/5 Medic: Sorta a feat-tax. Getting 60% from stimpacks is convenient, and 60% from radaway is actually almost useful. Mostly needed for buying medical shops though (needs rank 2).
X/5 Local Leader: Depends I guess. If you want multiple settlements, having it at rank 2 is incredibly convenient for building them. Wish it did more, though, I'd gladly pay another perk or assign more caravans to have more inventory shared.
1/5 Intimidation: Absolutely crap. Gives no XP, fails a lot, you could just shoot them instead, only works on humans (and ghouls?), GIVES NO XP. At level 2 there's a *chance* that they'll start attacking their friends, but seems like 50%. You don't even get ANY of their stuff, unless you murder them after... And there's no consequence for doing that, by the way. You can pick their pockets (worst case, they go hostile) but Piper and Nick gave me shit for that. Shooting them in the face with their hands up, though? No problemo. Oh, and only works on enemies "below your level". It's like Skyrim's illusion magic but even more meta and can't be boosted to be useful. Can't believe I boosted CHA to 10 for this, going to ignore it. Might reclaim my points eventually if I feel like it.
I assume with three ranks you can demand their stuff. Third rank takes level FIFTY though, so whatever. And again, no XP for resolving the conflict with 10 CHA.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 01, 2015, 12:56:55 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on December 01, 2015, 01:06:43 pm
Well, that wouldn't be *as* useless as Intimidation, since super mutants are bullet sponges. Still only works on targets "below your level" though, and presumably is just as random, and you lose all that XP (and loot from all the ones who surrender (unless you murder them)).
... The image of super mutants surrendering, though. Yeah I'm totally going to try that :D And maybe level 2 will actually be useful like you describe.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 02, 2015, 01:47:43 am
Also, damn Nick, I'm supposed to be following the BoS. I even halfheartedly flirted with... Oh jeez I can't even remember his name anymore. His story wasn't *terrible*, but Nick's is so much more interesting. So tempted to walk away from the BoS and solve this mystery with Nick. Not like the BoS ever gave a shit about my kid. Nick would be a decent squeeze but I think he's a better partner.
I like Piper too, Nick's cooler though.
Paladin "dance" is pretty cute though, hopefully he sticks around whatever happens.
Post by: umiman on December 02, 2015, 01:59:44 am
Post by: Rolan7 on December 02, 2015, 02:11:23 am
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 02, 2015, 02:29:13 am
I will try to avoid further commentary on this subject, as I know that most just want it left alone.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on December 02, 2015, 02:36:52 am
Post by: Neonivek on December 02, 2015, 03:09:52 am
I like the game, I hate the terrible writing and lore. But the game is good enough to stand on it's own, without having to be an exact continuation of the setting. I would hugely appreciate it tho'; if in the future, Bethesda's writing staff could actually take the time to do even the slightest bit of research on the older games, and un-fuck the BoS.
I will try to avoid further commentary on this subject, as I know that most just want it left alone.
What? The brother hood of steel aren't Xenophobic morons?
Goodness if ONLY we had a faction that were xenophobic morons with lots of technology we could use... but NAH that doesn't exist.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 02, 2015, 03:14:54 am
The Brotherhood aren't xenophobic. They are isolationist (with a heavy pro-human bias.) Until recently they didn't even have any weird 'murder everything non-human' element.
But that isn't even what I'm talking about, I don't really care about Bethesda's very poor writing, I care about the ongoing radical re-structuring of a group that is a direct outgrowth of the US Army into generic Spehss Muhrine stand-ins.
Post by: Neonivek on December 02, 2015, 03:16:19 am
The Brotherhood used to be the closest thing to "The Good guys" in the fallout universe.
Fallout 4 is probably the most Rinkydink the Brotherhood of steel ever got. For a while I kind of wondered if they really were brotherhood of steel and that maybe it is a twist and there are no BOS here and they are basically pretending to be for legitimacy.
Post by: ThtblovesDF on December 02, 2015, 04:10:14 am
So far, the brotherhood seems like obvious jerks.
The railroad makes to many stupid choices, but at least deacon is great.
Minutemen are to quest spammy and should be punished.
And the other faction has spoiler
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Niveras on December 02, 2015, 05:47:56 am
Post by: Krevsin on December 02, 2015, 06:43:17 am
I was being sarcastic :PI am willing to forgive Bethesda's take on BOS because it's happening on the east coast (an entire friggin continental US away from the previous games) and the Eastern BOS rebelled against the Western BOS' principles. They are, for all intents and purposes, an entirely new faction that has nothing to do with the Western BOS apart from the name, rank structure (which is not completely the same, IIRC) and raging hard-ons for power armor.
The Brotherhood used to be the closest thing to "The Good guys" in the fallout universe.
Fallout 4 is probably the most Rinkydink the Brotherhood of steel ever got. For a while I kind of wondered if they really were brotherhood of steel and that maybe it is a twist and there are no BOS here and they are basically pretending to be for legitimacy.
Having established that the core principles of the BOS can be changed coupled with what I assume was a particularly nasty conflict with the Outcasts and continued fighting against the supermutants of the Capital Wasteland could lead to rapid militarization and willingness to include outsiders into their ranks and a xenophobic attitude towards non-humans (although I suspect the latter . Especially if under the leadership of someone younger and more willing to bend the aforementioned principles to suit their own needs and desires, i.e. Elder Maxson. So that part I can rationalize. Which isn't to say they make sense.
Spoiler: spoilers for the BOS questline (click to show/hide)
I just wish Bethesda stopped calling them the Brotherhood of Steel and renamed them to something different because honestly, they really are a totally different thing to the western BOS of the original games and NV.
Speaking of factions and such, does anyone else find it hard to believe that in 200 goddamn years the only faction on the east coast that has developed to the point in which it might be a large political entity, capable of fielding armies of conquest is the Eastern BOS?
Everyone else seems stuck at city state level. I mean you'd expect at least some semblance of nations forming. Alliances between cities blossoming into more permanent affairs and the like. Large scale trading and manufacturing operations and so on. But nope, everything is ancient greece and cities are as big as we're going to get I guess.
Post by: Neonivek on December 02, 2015, 06:48:45 am
It would explain a LOT!
It would actually make a LOT more sense then Fallout 3, NV, and 4 taking place a long time after 1 and 2.
Post by: marples on December 02, 2015, 06:59:15 am
I'm currently durdling around trying to avoid finishing the main quest (nor can I, as I have to meet - important person - in certain ruins, but the person is not there. Quest marker sure is, but just says "go inside" "ok, now go outside").
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Krevsin on December 02, 2015, 07:49:13 am
I like to imagine that people are just really bad at telling time and the games only take place maybe 5 years after Fallout 2...Still, even 5 years after FO2 you had the NCR in its heyday, duking it out with the remnants of the Enclave for dominance in the region.
It would explain a LOT!
It would actually make a LOT more sense then Fallout 3, NV, and 4 taking place a long time after 1 and 2.
although I guess it could be argued that you, as the Sole Survivor and leader of the Minutemen are the person creating a nation-state fit to rival BOS' utter dominance of the region, but you're not actually creating a nation. More like a trading company.
Still, giving everyone in your little empire sack hoods is fun.
Edit: had the wrong war in mind.
Post by: scriver on December 02, 2015, 08:37:19 am
But yeah I'm very unimpressed by the world building in general. But I do feel the writing is a small improvement over previous bethesda games. Could be influenced by how I also feel the acting is better, and that makes a lot of corny lines easier to stomach.
There was a "Have you seen my father? Middle-aged guy." moment early on though.
Post by: MarcAFK on December 02, 2015, 09:09:20 am
Post by: Neonivek on December 02, 2015, 09:26:37 am
I immediately caught onto the fact that Shaun might not be a baby... in fact in all likeliness he isn't.
There is only ONE bit of information you can find that serves as a red herring.
It actually immensely bugged me "DUDE! do you have anything to go on that suggests that you were refrozen for only a small while?"
--
Also Piper is a moron... "Hey Mayor why don't you look for his baby? You can't spare one officer?"
Me: "Hey Piper, did you take two steps outside of Diamond City?"
It doesn't help that the game bends over backwards to make him seem corrupt... I mean... well... he has legit excuses... Yet the game always treats them like they are flimsy. Instead of the rational excuse.
"Hey Piper, maybe instead he should use that detective we have in the city who is much better equipped to handle this then our already overstretched, overworked, and underpaid police force that is doing everything they can just to ensure that we can keep breathing tomorrow"
instead of
"What!?! I am not hiding anything! We just... uhhh... can't spare anyone... yeah that's it..."
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on December 02, 2015, 09:32:10 am
Spoiler: Kellogg (click to show/hide)
Post by: Krevsin on December 02, 2015, 09:35:08 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
On the whole, I like the world building in FO4 more than in FO3. There's still bethesdaisms (like, a lot of them) but at least people seem to eat things.
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on December 02, 2015, 09:36:19 am
Post by: Neonivek on December 02, 2015, 09:39:13 am
I mean they sure are taking their sweet dang time...
Post by: scriver on December 02, 2015, 09:43:55 am
Post by: Krevsin on December 02, 2015, 10:04:43 am
The Enclave does not exist any more, Neonivek. They done got blew up.Lies. Bethesda just doesn't want me to have the Enclave's sweet sweet paintjob on my glorious X-01 power armor anymore.
Oh, can we talk about the X-01 power armor? And by "talk about" I mean "salivate over". That thing is hawt.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 02, 2015, 10:15:47 am
The Enclave does not exist any more, Neonivek. They done got blew up.R.I.P heroes and true american patriots :'(
Post by: Reudh on December 02, 2015, 10:58:04 am
The Enclave does not exist any more, Neonivek. They done got blew up.Lies. Bethesda just doesn't want me to have the Enclave's sweet sweet paintjob on my glorious X-01 power armor anymore.
Oh, can we talk about the X-01 power armor? And by "talk about" I mean "salivate over". That thing is hawt.
I dunno, my Shark Piezoelectric Power Armor (T60 i think? not sure) is pretty damn good too.
Post by: scriver on December 02, 2015, 11:02:39 am
Post by: Sergius on December 02, 2015, 11:04:10 am
Post by: miauw62 on December 02, 2015, 11:21:14 am
also whenever i look at this thread for a new title there is always a comment about wh40k and power armor.
Post by: Sergius on December 02, 2015, 11:30:29 am
we'll probably see literal 50-foot-tall mechas or something silly like that
also whenever i look at this thread for a new title there is always a comment about wh40k and power armor.
Maybe a human sized power armor that transforms into a head and attaches to a giant mech!
But transforming does 2000 HP damage for all the bone grinding that goes inside.
Post by: Neonivek on December 02, 2015, 11:57:17 am
The Enclave does not exist any more, Neonivek. They done got blew up.
I wish :/
Post by: Flying Dice on December 02, 2015, 12:51:13 pm
Gattai!we'll probably see literal 50-foot-tall mechas or something silly like that
also whenever i look at this thread for a new title there is always a comment about wh40k and power armor.
Maybe a human sized power armor that transforms into a head and attaches to a giant mech!
But transforming does 2000 HP damage for all the bone grinding that goes inside.
Post by: DoomOnion on December 02, 2015, 01:00:28 pm
It doesn't help that the game bends over backwards to make him seem corrupt... I mean... well... he has legit excuses... Yet the game always treats them like they are flimsy. Instead of the rational excuse.
Well, this is an American game. All government officials and agencies must be !!CURROPT!! and we must fight back with Chinese assault rifles that we bought from Super Duper Mart.
Post by: Greenbane on December 02, 2015, 01:10:07 pm
we'll probably see literal 50-foot-tall mechas or something silly like that
Pilotable Liberty Prime confirmed.
Post by: Glloyd on December 02, 2015, 02:02:44 pm
Post by: Greenbane on December 02, 2015, 02:36:32 pm
So I just started playing this. Not too impressed by the PC being fully voiced. I like to run around and click on shit a lot. I don't want to hear the same 3 lines repeated over and over again in my ear. Also, no voice acting, whatever the quality, is good enough to keep hearing over and over again ad nauseum throughout the entire game without getting a little sick. I find myself skipping through dialogue sections because I don't want to hear my character talk and I'm only a couple hours into the game.
What does the main character say outside conversations, beyond the occasional "Yes!" or equivalent when you pick a lock? Or "Hey" and "Psst" when beckoning Dogmeat.
Post by: Glloyd on December 02, 2015, 02:47:56 pm
Post by: Greenbane on December 02, 2015, 02:53:34 pm
I really noticed it in Vault 111 when everything I clicked on was greeted with "are they all dead?" Again, I'm only a couple hours in, but I'm sick of hearing the guy's voice already. It's probably just me though.
I think that kind of repetitiveness mostly disappears after you leave the Vault.
Voiced companions are rather chatty and repetitive, though.
Post by: Neonivek on December 02, 2015, 02:55:30 pm
I really noticed it in Vault 111 when everything I clicked on was greeted with "are they all dead?" Again, I'm only a couple hours in, but I'm sick of hearing the guy's voice already. It's probably just me though.
He is kind of a total weenie I will admit.
Voiced companions are rather chatty and repetitive, though.
"Hey! Stop picking up trash! stop picking up trash! Do you need to pick up trash? Do we pick up trash now? Hey ! Stop picking up trash!"
Me: "SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP!!! I need it all! Can you sound like you exist in this universe for a dang second?"
Who honestly knew Bethesda were such HUGE fans of story vs. game segregation?
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on December 02, 2015, 03:25:49 pm
...we'll probably see literal 50-foot-tall mechas or something silly like that
Pilotable Liberty Prime confirmed.
yes
YES
YEAAHAHHHAES
can't tell if sarcastic or just being neoI really noticed it in Vault 111 when everything I clicked on was greeted with "are they all dead?" Again, I'm only a couple hours in, but I'm sick of hearing the guy's voice already. It's probably just me though.
He is kind of a total weenie I will admit.Voiced companions are rather chatty and repetitive, though.
"Hey! Stop picking up trash! stop picking up trash! Do you need to pick up trash? Do we pick up trash now? Hey ! Stop picking up trash!"
Me: "SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP!!! I need it all! Can you sound like you exist in this universe for a dang second?"
Who honestly knew Bethesda were such HUGE fans of story vs. game segregation?
Post by: motorbitch on December 02, 2015, 03:36:38 pm
ther is a mod that will reduce the range in with npc asume you want to talk to them and make them speak to you. very useful.
and, as there are some npc that just wont shut up: open console, click them, type tai . this will turn them into a statue untill you use that command again.
Post by: Virtz on December 02, 2015, 03:46:24 pm
Post by: Krevsin on December 02, 2015, 03:50:45 pm
Speaking about the VA, the main character's makes me think our protagonist is kinda brain damaged. Or well, SPECIAL. Like he doesn't approach situations with the appropriate tone at all. When you ask about something like super mutants, he's just kinda mildly interested like he's asking about something unusual he heard during a sales pitch. Doesn't seem very fitting for soldier-man. He's like the most mild-mannered war veteran in existence.I always assumed the lady was the war veteran. She sounds so much more capable than manbutt does.
Post by: BigD145 on December 02, 2015, 03:55:32 pm
companions annoyed the hell out of me, for multiple reasons. one of the most important, the constant repitition of chatter. on the bright side: lone wanderer perk is pretty awsome.
ther is a mod that will reduce the range in with npc asume you want to talk to them and make them speak to you. very useful.
and, as there are some npc that just wont shut up: open console, click them, type tai . this will turn them into a statue untill you use that command again.
Dogmeat, voted best companion.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 02, 2015, 04:04:22 pm
IIRC she was supposed to be a lawyer.Speaking about the VA, the main character's makes me think our protagonist is kinda brain damaged. Or well, SPECIAL. Like he doesn't approach situations with the appropriate tone at all. When you ask about something like super mutants, he's just kinda mildly interested like he's asking about something unusual he heard during a sales pitch. Doesn't seem very fitting for soldier-man. He's like the most mild-mannered war veteran in existence.I always assumed the lady was the war veteran. She sounds so much more capable than manbutt does.
But fuck predetermined backstories attached to adult protagonists in a CYOA sort of game.
Post by: Culise on December 02, 2015, 04:16:03 pm
Let's split the difference: she serves in the Fallout version of the JAG Corps, running around in power armor dispensing military justice.IIRC she was supposed to be a lawyer.Speaking about the VA, the main character's makes me think our protagonist is kinda brain damaged. Or well, SPECIAL. Like he doesn't approach situations with the appropriate tone at all. When you ask about something like super mutants, he's just kinda mildly interested like he's asking about something unusual he heard during a sales pitch. Doesn't seem very fitting for soldier-man. He's like the most mild-mannered war veteran in existence.I always assumed the lady was the war veteran. She sounds so much more capable than manbutt does.
But fuck predetermined backstories attached to adult protagonists in a CYOA sort of game.
Post by: BFEL on December 02, 2015, 04:21:58 pm
*Jumps out of a plane into a firefight to inform a soldier he's being sued for child support* *Chinese are too stunned to continue fighting*Let's split the difference: she serves in the Fallout version of the JAG Corps, running around in power armor dispensing military justice.IIRC she was supposed to be a lawyer.Speaking about the VA, the main character's makes me think our protagonist is kinda brain damaged. Or well, SPECIAL. Like he doesn't approach situations with the appropriate tone at all. When you ask about something like super mutants, he's just kinda mildly interested like he's asking about something unusual he heard during a sales pitch. Doesn't seem very fitting for soldier-man. He's like the most mild-mannered war veteran in existence.I always assumed the lady was the war veteran. She sounds so much more capable than manbutt does.
But fuck predetermined backstories attached to adult protagonists in a CYOA sort of game.
Post by: Metalax on December 02, 2015, 04:43:19 pm
It could have been worse, she could have been with the IRS.*Jumps out of a plane into a firefight to inform a soldier he's being sued for child support* *Chinese are too stunned to continue fighting*Let's split the difference: she serves in the Fallout version of the JAG Corps, running around in power armor dispensing military justice.IIRC she was supposed to be a lawyer.Speaking about the VA, the main character's makes me think our protagonist is kinda brain damaged. Or well, SPECIAL. Like he doesn't approach situations with the appropriate tone at all. When you ask about something like super mutants, he's just kinda mildly interested like he's asking about something unusual he heard during a sales pitch. Doesn't seem very fitting for soldier-man. He's like the most mild-mannered war veteran in existence.I always assumed the lady was the war veteran. She sounds so much more capable than manbutt does.
But fuck predetermined backstories attached to adult protagonists in a CYOA sort of game.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 02, 2015, 04:44:23 pm
So basically an inquisitor/commissar? :^)Let's split the difference: she serves in the Fallout version of the JAG Corps, running around in power armor dispensing military justice.IIRC she was supposed to be a lawyer.Speaking about the VA, the main character's makes me think our protagonist is kinda brain damaged. Or well, SPECIAL. Like he doesn't approach situations with the appropriate tone at all. When you ask about something like super mutants, he's just kinda mildly interested like he's asking about something unusual he heard during a sales pitch. Doesn't seem very fitting for soldier-man. He's like the most mild-mannered war veteran in existence.I always assumed the lady was the war veteran. She sounds so much more capable than manbutt does.
But fuck predetermined backstories attached to adult protagonists in a CYOA sort of game.
Post by: Neonivek on December 02, 2015, 04:49:59 pm
can't tell if sarcastic or just being neoI really noticed it in Vault 111 when everything I clicked on was greeted with "are they all dead?" Again, I'm only a couple hours in, but I'm sick of hearing the guy's voice already. It's probably just me though.
He is kind of a total weenie I will admit.Voiced companions are rather chatty and repetitive, though.
"Hey! Stop picking up trash! stop picking up trash! Do you need to pick up trash? Do we pick up trash now? Hey ! Stop picking up trash!"
Me: "SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP!!! I need it all! Can you sound like you exist in this universe for a dang second?"
Who honestly knew Bethesda were such HUGE fans of story vs. game segregation?
I am serious, I am not sure why I'd be sarcastic about being pissed off at companions for mentioning every single time I picked up some junk
Which would be fine if this was New Vegas where junk was, for the most part, useless... But given that every single object (except a few) has a use... it is incredibly irritating because it is like they don't notice "Hey, I actually build stuff with those coffee cups"
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on December 02, 2015, 05:02:30 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on December 02, 2015, 05:24:08 pm
Good thing I don't plan on doing a low-INT run for a loooong time. "Uh sure honey, you can... go back to law school..." *shakes head sadly*
Post by: scriver on December 02, 2015, 05:28:41 pm
Post by: MarcAFK on December 02, 2015, 07:46:03 pm
But seriously, I'm looking forward to the first hacky bugfisted attempt at getting vehicles into the game by modding power armour mechanics combined with random destroyed car meshes.
Post by: Kot on December 02, 2015, 08:19:45 pm
Wearable cars!
Post by: Aseaheru on December 02, 2015, 08:28:21 pm
Post by: PTTG?? on December 03, 2015, 12:53:34 pm
Maybe the option to fix your old household car too...
Post by: Astral on December 03, 2015, 01:04:24 pm
It's in perpetual beta status, but a good indicator of what modders with lots of time can do when sufficiently interested in a tpic.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on December 03, 2015, 03:33:07 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 03, 2015, 05:04:30 pm
Post by: umiman on December 03, 2015, 05:14:25 pm
I want a mod that lets you spruce up some of the static objects within settlements. Clean up the shitty looking houses in sanctuary and rebuild that damn bridge for example.I want one that gets rid of some stupid permanent bodies sitting on the bridge. Does anyone else have those?
Post by: Mattk50 on December 03, 2015, 05:29:33 pm
I want a mod that lets you spruce up some of the static objects within settlements. Clean up the shitty looking houses in sanctuary and rebuild that damn bridge for example.I want one that gets rid of some stupid permanent bodies sitting on the bridge. Does anyone else have those?
I tried dragging them off but they re-appeared. Then i dismembered one of the bodies and it regrew limbs. but it's still naked. Im going to find some long johns and redress the body if it lets me.
Though, i dont go to sanctuary any more because it bugs out when you fast travel near it and everyone leaves the settlement due to it thinking it has 0 defense.
Post by: Krevsin on December 03, 2015, 05:30:45 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on December 03, 2015, 05:31:49 pm
... But I think other people are probably working on most of them already.
Yeah, being able to "scrap" corpses to nothingness (or bone (and gecko meat, aheh)) would be great.
Unfortunately it would be tough for modders to let the hardcoded unscrappable buildings and trash be removed. That's kinda Bethesda's fault.
I tried dragging them off but they re-appeared. Then i dismembered one of the bodies and it regrew limbs. but it's still naked. Im going to find some long johns and redress the body if it lets me.Ah jeez that's just lazy, I can see how that would happen though from a coding perspective.
Though, i dont go to sanctuary any more because it bugs out when you fast travel near it and everyone leaves the settlement due to it thinking it has 0 defense.Haha wtf
Post by: umiman on December 03, 2015, 05:35:25 pm
Post by: Krevsin on December 03, 2015, 05:38:56 pm
I don't know if it will help you guys but I found the cause for the settlement bugs in my game. I removed all the TVs (all of them) and I never have issues with mysterious changing numbers.Soooo the TV rots the settlers' brains?
Good to know.
Post by: Reudh on December 03, 2015, 08:31:53 pm
New vegas had a Vertibird mod that primarily acted as a proof of concept (http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/45809/?). It basically requires that it puts its own engine inside of the game, running on top of Gamebryo, in order to provide the physics that the base engine does not (as Gamebryo is apparently extremely wonky when it comes to vehicle physics).
It's in perpetual beta status, but a good indicator of what modders with lots of time can do when sufficiently interested in a tpic.
It was less an engine and more a kludge that used directed, invisible explosions behind the vertibird (and in the case of the XRE Cars mod, cars too) to use Havok to fling the vertibird/car in the right direction just so. It's why the physics are so slippery for the car.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 03, 2015, 08:41:29 pm
Fallout cars use nuclear, not combustion engines!
Post by: Culise on December 03, 2015, 09:06:14 pm
Ugh that's so unrealistic.Orion drives are also nuclear...
Fallout cars use nuclear, not combustion engines!
Post by: Rolan7 on December 03, 2015, 09:20:29 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on December 03, 2015, 09:34:43 pm
I mean, I loved using it (Mostly because I got to FLY A FUCKING VERTIBIRD), but CHRIST landing it was worse than death.New vegas had a Vertibird mod that primarily acted as a proof of concept (http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/45809/?). It basically requires that it puts its own engine inside of the game, running on top of Gamebryo, in order to provide the physics that the base engine does not (as Gamebryo is apparently extremely wonky when it comes to vehicle physics).
It's in perpetual beta status, but a good indicator of what modders with lots of time can do when sufficiently interested in a tpic.
It was less an engine and more a kludge that used directed, invisible explosions behind the vertibird (and in the case of the XRE Cars mod, cars too) to use Havok to fling the vertibird/car in the right direction just so. It's why the physics are so slippery for the car.
Post by: TheDarkStar on December 03, 2015, 10:38:40 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Greiger on December 04, 2015, 04:54:34 pm
I tried dragging them off but they re-appeared. Then i dismembered one of the bodies and it regrew limbs. but it's still naked. Im going to find some long johns and redress the body if it lets me.I actually decided to use that co-op far as the primary food production for my whole country* and it really annoys me that the feral ghoul corpses won't go away. There's even one that perpetually floats in midair in one of the houses because I scrapped the table it's sitting on.
Though, i dont go to sanctuary any more because it bugs out when you fast travel near it and everyone leaves the settlement due to it thinking it has 0 defense.
Post by: Sirian on December 04, 2015, 05:14:00 pm
I tried dragging them off but they re-appeared. Then i dismembered one of the bodies and it regrew limbs. but it's still naked. Im going to find some long johns and redress the body if it lets me.I actually decided to use that co-op far as the primary food production for my whole country* and it really annoys me that the feral ghoul corpses won't go away. There's even one that perpetually floats in midair in one of the houses because I scrapped the table it's sitting on.
Though, i dont go to sanctuary any more because it bugs out when you fast travel near it and everyone leaves the settlement due to it thinking it has 0 defense.
You can use the console command "disable" to remove this kind of stuff. (open the console, right-click the corpse, type "disable" and press enter)
Post by: Greenbane on December 04, 2015, 05:25:36 pm
I could've sworn the lights got a lot brighter in the Castle when I plugged in an extra medium generator (to power the purifier just offshore), compared to just a small one.
I'm almost certain the conduits' range was extended as well, as some lights received power despite being seemingly out of range earlier.
Post by: Reudh on December 04, 2015, 07:43:41 pm
I tried dragging them off but they re-appeared. Then i dismembered one of the bodies and it regrew limbs. but it's still naked. Im going to find some long johns and redress the body if it lets me.I actually decided to use that co-op far as the primary food production for my whole country* and it really annoys me that the feral ghoul corpses won't go away. There's even one that perpetually floats in midair in one of the houses because I scrapped the table it's sitting on.
Though, i dont go to sanctuary any more because it bugs out when you fast travel near it and everyone leaves the settlement due to it thinking it has 0 defense.
You can use the console command "disable" to remove this kind of stuff. (open the console, right-click the corpse, type "disable" and press enter)
Just fyi, the console command "markfordelete" is a little cleaner and safer to use than "disable". Disable merely hides the object from the gameworld, markfordelete literally marks it for deletion - next cell update it will be gone forever.
Post by: Greenbane on December 05, 2015, 10:33:29 am
The only possible way to go about it unless you want to seriously hamstring yourself is to find a suitable armour-friendly outfit and the best armour pieces you can find/craft.
What's the point in having so much useless fashion in a combat-heavy game? I suppose it encourages power armour use to some extent, but that has other disadvantages. Stealth impairment, for instance.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 05, 2015, 10:51:23 am
I figured the Minuteman General outfit is supposed to already have arm and leg protection "built in", but it didn't seem visible. I'd much prefer if it had lower stats, on part with particularly good clothing, and allowed armor to be added as normal.
Switching in and out of charisma-clothing is a confusing slog when I'm carrying any loot armor. Armor pieces can be renamed (such as by adding a dash to the front so they appear at the beginning) but that overwrites the entire name and is a pain itself. The favorite system should let me mark armor as "the ones I use" and keep them at the top... Instead it takes up a hotkey and doesn't affect sorting. As if I really want to use up a hotkey on a left-arm segment.
They really learned nothing from SkyUI (and earlier) except "Someone will make one for FO4, so just design for the console players".
Also the weapons list desperately needs to sort or indicate by bullet type, I mean come on! Which is particularly terrible since they implemented sorting by ROF and DAM... I will *never* want to sort by those, give me ammo type! Those options just make it trickier to sort by weight or value.
Also it keeps switching the sorting *back*, I think when I reload a game. I want it on weight, not alphabetical order. 99% of the time! For every separate section! Argh!
Post by: Reudh on December 05, 2015, 10:57:00 am
It's rather disappointing that there are so many cool outfits, yet most can't be modded nor used in combination with armour parts, which are far more effective from the practical perspective. The Minutemen General outfit, for instance, has semi-decent protection stats and looks smashing, but I'd have to give up several stat bonuses from my combat armor pieces if I were to use it. And some protection value, obviously.
The only possible way to go about it unless you want to seriously hamstring yourself is to find a suitable armour-friendly outfit and the best armour pieces you can find/craft.
What's the point in having so much useless fashion in a combat-heavy game? I suppose it encourages power armour use to some extent, but that has other disadvantages. Stealth impairment, for instance.
I'm sure there's gonna be a mod that makes all "suits" and similar objects treated the same way as the Vault 111 jumpsuit or the Road Leathers / Harness / Raider Leathers - that is, clothing that can have armor pieces over the top of them.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 05, 2015, 11:03:05 am
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/2228/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Ffallout4%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D2228%26preview%3D&pUp=1 (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/2228/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Ffallout4%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D2228%26preview%3D&pUp=1)
Post by: Grim Portent on December 05, 2015, 12:29:29 pm
Post by: Greenbane on December 05, 2015, 04:11:04 pm
There's already something like half a dozen. This one, as far as I can tell, is the best of the lot because it resizes armor to fit over most clothing instead of clipping, and because it allows you to apply the Railroad mods to more clothing.
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/2228/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Ffallout4%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D2228%26preview%3D&pUp=1 (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/2228/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Ffallout4%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D2228%26preview%3D&pUp=1)
That looks good, though I tend to be wary of such far-reaching mods as any patch could render my game entirely unplayable until the mod's updated.
Will have to think about it, anyway.
Post by: BlackFlyme on December 05, 2015, 06:20:36 pm
Are there any melee weapons that are better than the chinese officer's sword? So far a fully upgraded legendary one has been outdoing an upgraded super sledge and all the other melee weapons I've gathered. Was disappointed to find that Grognak's Axe lacked any real staying power as a weapon.
Is it General Chao's Revenge? That unique is stronger than the other Officer Swords. The Super Sledge is supposed to be the strongest in terms of raw damage, but may be evened out by being slower. The only two weapons that are better than Chao's that I know of are both unique, with one being a knife that is incredibly good for stealth attacks and has better base damage, and the other being a machete that does exceptional damage, and both bleeds and poisons the enemy.
Post by: scriver on December 05, 2015, 06:26:50 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 05, 2015, 06:27:53 pm
Post by: Chiefwaffles on December 05, 2015, 06:29:35 pm
Is there any way to get companions out of power armour?Don't remember exactly, but it's an option when talking to the companion. I think it's under the "let's talk"/whatever option.
Post by: scriver on December 05, 2015, 06:35:39 pm
Post by: BFEL on December 05, 2015, 09:19:01 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on December 05, 2015, 09:39:33 pm
New favorite sarcastic response: "DOCTOR, ITS TIME FOR YOU TO REVERSE DEATH ITSELF!!!"
Sarcasm really should have some kind of effect on the game. Like, the more sarcastic you are, the more sarcasm and dark humor occurs everywhere else.
Post by: Neonivek on December 05, 2015, 09:47:46 pm
New favorite sarcastic response: "DOCTOR, ITS TIME FOR YOU TO REVERSE DEATH ITSELF!!!"
Sarcasm really should have some kind of effect on the game. Like, the more sarcastic you are, the more sarcasm and dark humor occurs everywhere else.
I am astounded by how little Bethesda believes its audience can take silly...
Did people REALLY complain that much about the craziness in the Wacky World in Fallout 3 and went "Thank goodness I could switch it off... by the way I am a total loser with no life, sense of humor, or really and reason to exist other then to deprive people of joy"?
Post by: Teneb on December 05, 2015, 09:52:49 pm
Enough that there was some complaining about it (despite the fact that you can see an UFO in the first game, among other zany stuff) and that the New Vegas team had an argument over it (leading to an option in chargen). I guess some people just want their apocalypse to be super cereal. I somewhat regret this joke, but removing it would go against my point.New favorite sarcastic response: "DOCTOR, ITS TIME FOR YOU TO REVERSE DEATH ITSELF!!!"
Sarcasm really should have some kind of effect on the game. Like, the more sarcastic you are, the more sarcasm and dark humor occurs everywhere else.
I am astounded by how little Bethesda believes its audience can take silly...
Did people REALLY complain that much about the craziness in the Wacky World in Fallout 3 and went "Thank goodness I could switch it off... by the way I am a total loser with no life, sense of humor, or really and reason to exist other then to deprive people of joy"?
Post by: TheDarkStar on December 05, 2015, 09:54:14 pm
New favorite sarcastic response: "DOCTOR, ITS TIME FOR YOU TO REVERSE DEATH ITSELF!!!"
Sarcasm really should have some kind of effect on the game. Like, the more sarcastic you are, the more sarcasm and dark humor occurs everywhere else.
I am astounded by how little Bethesda believes its audience can take silly...
Did people REALLY complain that much about the craziness in the Wacky World in Fallout 3 and went "Thank goodness I could switch it off... by the way I am a total loser with no life, sense of humor, or really and reason to exist other then to deprive people of joy"?
I think they did learn some things. For example, Fallout 4 has a quest where you rescue a Shakespearean actor who has basically converted a Super Mutant to Shakespeare.
Post by: Teneb on December 05, 2015, 09:56:22 pm
For those doing that quest, you may want to pick the "ask more" options when it comes to the distress signal. The dialogue is pretty amusing.New favorite sarcastic response: "DOCTOR, ITS TIME FOR YOU TO REVERSE DEATH ITSELF!!!"
Sarcasm really should have some kind of effect on the game. Like, the more sarcastic you are, the more sarcasm and dark humor occurs everywhere else.
I am astounded by how little Bethesda believes its audience can take silly...
Did people REALLY complain that much about the craziness in the Wacky World in Fallout 3 and went "Thank goodness I could switch it off... by the way I am a total loser with no life, sense of humor, or really and reason to exist other then to deprive people of joy"?
I think they did learn some things. For example, Fallout 4 has a quest where you rescue a Shakespearean actor who has basically converted a Super Mutant to Shakespeare.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Neonivek on December 05, 2015, 09:58:16 pm
But some of the stuff like a guy named Timmy who fell down a well... did that REALLY need to be a Wacky World?
Whatever people have no joy in their lives.
Post by: Reudh on December 05, 2015, 11:04:22 pm
Is there any way to get companions out of power armour?
Command -> Talk -> Exit Power Armor. Takes up the dialogue slot where asking about the relationship usually is.
Are there any melee weapons that are better than the chinese officer's sword? So far a fully upgraded legendary one has been outdoing an upgraded super sledge and all the other melee weapons I've gathered. Was disappointed to find that Grognak's Axe lacked any real staying power as a weapon.
Pickman's Knife is slightly faster, and on my non-melee character does 25 damage + 20 bleed damage. The bleed it inflicts stacks very rapidly due to its fast swing speed. I stabbed a Super Mutant Overlord to death with it, once - buffjet works wonders, alternatively psychojet.
Post by: umiman on December 05, 2015, 11:45:16 pm
Post by: Virtz on December 06, 2015, 04:42:29 am
I'm confused. Was there something that wasn't Wacky World in FO3?New favorite sarcastic response: "DOCTOR, ITS TIME FOR YOU TO REVERSE DEATH ITSELF!!!"
Sarcasm really should have some kind of effect on the game. Like, the more sarcastic you are, the more sarcasm and dark humor occurs everywhere else.
I am astounded by how little Bethesda believes its audience can take silly...
Did people REALLY complain that much about the craziness in the Wacky World in Fallout 3 and went "Thank goodness I could switch it off... by the way I am a total loser with no life, sense of humor, or really and reason to exist other then to deprive people of joy"?
Post by: Putnam on December 06, 2015, 04:47:38 am
Post by: Virtz on December 06, 2015, 05:30:13 am
Post by: BFEL on December 06, 2015, 08:10:39 am
Post by: Flying Dice on December 06, 2015, 08:29:07 am
Oh. Yeah. Why would they give someone the option to play the way they want? Next thing you know they're gonna allow people to set game difficulty or change sound volume. What kind of loser plays on anything other than defaults?Because there's no reason that anyone should have to "choose" anything? I was distinctly peeved--I never took Wild Wasteland because I liked the YCS/186 too much--that I missed out on a lot of that content because there were people who genuinely whined "but muh realsims" in regard to Fallout and little hidden references. Never mind, as BFEL said, the stupidity of it being a trait instead of an independent choice.
Post by: TheDarkStar on December 06, 2015, 08:46:50 am
Bleeding minigun - Stacking bleeding on a weapon that fires 50 rounds per second.
Double-shot combat shotgun - Double damage on an already high-damage weapon lets it almost outdamage my gauss rifle.
Infinitely-reloading laser musket - Allows for dozens of energy cells to be used to charge it, so it can one-shot anything if there's enough time to reload it.
Post by: Jacob/Lee on December 06, 2015, 08:59:52 am
Infinitely-reloading laser musket - Allows for dozens of energy cells to be used to charge it, so it can one-shot anything if there's enough time to reload it.It's actually an orbital laser that fell to earth and somebody somehow salvaged. The aliens probably built it. :P
Post by: Neonivek on December 06, 2015, 09:19:55 am
Oh. Yeah. Why would they give someone the option to play the way they want? Next thing you know they're gonna allow people to set game difficulty or change sound volume. What kind of loser plays on anything other than defaults?
It ended up creating a severe imbalance.
Imagine if a game only had two difficulty settings: Super duper easy and extreme ballbusting hard!
That is what FO3 and NV essentially created with their option.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 06, 2015, 09:33:15 am
IDK, I never turned on Wild Wasteland and I was very satisfied with NV's tone. I took the silliness of FO2 in stride, but NV tackled some serious political issues that caused serious heated arguments between my friends and I. I think it worked well as a serious game.
Hell one of the main flaws (for us) was that the Legion was too... 70's cartoon evil, sometimes, when other times it was serious real-world evil. We had trouble taking them seriously as a "Doing what must be done to survive" faction when they regularly went "HEY BTW WE'RE EEEEVIL" and cosplayed in nonsensical magic non-armor.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 06, 2015, 09:37:44 am
FO3 didn't have the option... For NV, I guess you're talking about the alien blaster/gauss rifle?
IDK, I never turned on Wild Wasteland and I was very satisfied with NV's tone. I took the silliness of FO2 in stride, but NV tackled some serious political issues that caused serious heated arguments between my friends and I. I think it worked well as a serious game.
Hell one of the main flaws (for us) was that the Legion was too... 70's cartoon evil, sometimes, when other times it was serious real-world evil. We had trouble taking them seriously as a "Doing what must be done to survive" faction when they regularly went "HEY BTW WE'RE EEEEVIL" and cosplayed in nonsensical magic non-armor.
There was a bunch of little things. A stash of mininukes in a church replaced with Holy Hand Grenades. Indiana Jones' skeleton and hat in a fridge outside of Goodsprings. Stuff like that.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 06, 2015, 09:49:06 am
And for the record I didn't mind the weird stuff in FO3 either. It seemed a lot tamer than FO2, and I accepted it in FO2 too. I just really enjoyed NV as a serious game though, and Wild Wasteland content might have made that more difficult.
Of course, Old World Blues was silly as all hell. But it was pretty fun, and DLC, so yeah. Completing the game once before going there worked for me.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 06, 2015, 09:59:58 am
Post by: Neonivek on December 06, 2015, 10:03:09 am
Sorry. But it didn't change the difficulty in NV either. I think Neo just read "toggle" and assumed I was talking about Hardcore. :|
I was giving an analogy on Wild World :P
Post by: Grim Portent on December 06, 2015, 10:58:52 am
Post by: scriver on December 06, 2015, 11:28:27 am
Post by: Grim Portent on December 06, 2015, 11:33:53 am
You're not putting Preston in Minutemen paint?
Didn't know there was a Minuteman paint scheme.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on December 06, 2015, 01:04:31 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Gotta hang around a while and formulate the plan for my next character.
Post by: Neonivek on December 06, 2015, 01:10:28 pm
Post by: ThtblovesDF on December 06, 2015, 01:27:50 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: AoshimaMichio on December 06, 2015, 02:18:06 pm
Does the game end after the main quest or are you free to continue playing the game after?
You can keep playing.
And another thing that annoys me greatly: I can't ask questions. Like I find very interesting and questionable stuff from terminals and apparently I can't demand explanations from anybody.
Post by: Neonivek on December 06, 2015, 02:22:17 pm
Does the game end after the main quest or are you free to continue playing the game after?
You can keep playing.
And another thing that annoys me greatly: I can't ask questions. Like I find very interesting and questionable stuff from terminals and apparently I can't demand explanations from anybody.
But choices make casuals worried.
No we need to streamline the game. That is why in Fallout 5 will introduce a new conversation system where you can only speak in Yes and No.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on December 06, 2015, 02:47:07 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on December 06, 2015, 02:49:39 pm
About bunker HillSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on December 06, 2015, 03:07:10 pm
Grow up. People make games for more than just one audience. I get the gripe but don't be a child.Does the game end after the main quest or are you free to continue playing the game after?
You can keep playing.
And another thing that annoys me greatly: I can't ask questions. Like I find very interesting and questionable stuff from terminals and apparently I can't demand explanations from anybody.
But choices make casuals worried.
No we need to streamline the game. That is why in Fallout 5 will introduce a new conversation system where you can only speak in Yes and No.
Post by: Chiefwaffles on December 06, 2015, 03:22:43 pm
Oh no, not the spooky casuals!stuffBut choices make casuals worried.
No we need to streamline the game. That is why in Fallout 5 will introduce a new conversation system where you can only speak in Yes and No.
I heard the casuals live in your closet, then, when you're asleep, they steal your games and replace the games with worse ones!
Post by: Graknorke on December 06, 2015, 03:27:08 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on December 06, 2015, 03:27:49 pm
Post by: poketwo on December 06, 2015, 03:41:09 pm
Post by: Chiefwaffles on December 06, 2015, 03:45:59 pm
Post by: Retropunch on December 06, 2015, 03:51:29 pm
Other than that though, I'm really, really enjoying it. I've found it more difficult to pick up random quests though - I feel as though when I played FO3/NV I was constantly stumbling across crazy quests whereas I'm not finding as many with 4.
Post by: poketwo on December 06, 2015, 03:55:13 pm
Post by: Chiefwaffles on December 06, 2015, 03:59:27 pm
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on December 06, 2015, 04:02:58 pm
Ithoughthalflifewouldhavebeenimprovedwithregeneratinghealthbye!
Post by: Graknorke on December 06, 2015, 04:15:57 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on December 06, 2015, 04:23:41 pm
Unless enemies have limited ammo, like Deus Ex or something, I prefer regenerating health.
(RPGs like fallout are different because basically every resource is infinite, including stimpacks, if you farm it)
Post by: Neonivek on December 06, 2015, 04:25:24 pm
Grow up. People make games for more than just one audience. I get the gripe but don't be a child.
I was mostly joking...
Yes it is true that this is a product of Bethesda trying to make a game that "everyone" can play and thus they water down the gameplay, plot, characters, choices, and difficulty.
Yet it isn't the casual's fault. The joke is more that Bethesda has such little faith in the average player that they go for these lowest common denominator tactics... as if they are worried challenging them will make them hate their game.
Post by: PTTG?? on December 06, 2015, 04:28:19 pm
Oh-a-a-a, oh
And now we meet in an abandoned (Game design) studio
We play the game back and it seems so long ago
And you remember how the gameplay used to go
Oh-a, oh
Post by: miauw62 on December 06, 2015, 04:32:51 pm
Alternately: https://vthemusical.bandcamp.com/album/v-the-musical-3-damage-control-to-major-todd
Post by: BFEL on December 06, 2015, 05:19:48 pm
Post by: scriver on December 06, 2015, 05:56:14 pm
I'm feeling very still
And I think my hype train knows which way to go
Tell my wife I love her very much, she knows
Hype Control to Major Todd
Your circuits' dead, there's something wrong
Can you hear me, Major Todd?
Can you hear me, Major Todd?
Can you hear me, Major Todd?
Here am I sitting in my hype train
Far above the world
Planet Earth is blue
And there's nothing I can do
Ok, hilarious bug time people. I went to Diamond City with a companion who was decidedly NOT PIPER, and when I got near her sister Nat, she perked up, yelled "Piper!" and then ran out of town, presumably to travel all the way to Red Rocket to tell her big sister what happened at school today.
That's the greatest bug. Presumably she just then remembered something super important :v
Post by: Flying Dice on December 06, 2015, 06:02:57 pm
:V
Post by: Egan_BW on December 06, 2015, 06:05:20 pm
...I disagree.
Ithoughthalflifewouldhavebeenimprovedwithregeneratinghealthbye!
Partly because health packs are loot, and loot is always good. Also because it gives you a reason to explore the world, which is like, super beautiful.
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 06, 2015, 06:37:10 pm
The best part about Piper's little sister is the implications behind her. Piper has absolutely no problem literally just walking off and abandoning her little sister forever. Furthermore, the sister continues living just fine and also keeps the newspaper running even if Piper's been sitting in some dirt farm settlement for months. From that we can conclude that Piper doesn't actually do anything of value for "her" paper: her sister is the one who does the reporting legwork, writes the stories up, prints the paper, and sells it, with little or no help from Piper.
:V
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: miauw62 on December 06, 2015, 06:44:37 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 06, 2015, 06:45:53 pm
A lot of those songs I bet weren't even popular at the time (given half of them are joke songs)
Post by: BFEL on December 06, 2015, 07:25:08 pm
Man... I wish Diamond City Radio had more songs... and better songs.You visit the bar in Goodneighbor yet? Once you hear the singer there they start playing her songs on the radio.
A lot of those songs I bet weren't even popular at the time (given half of them are joke songs)
I wish this were true now. It would be way more interesting then finding outSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 06, 2015, 07:47:52 pm
I wish this were true now.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on December 06, 2015, 07:57:26 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: BlackFlyme on December 06, 2015, 08:01:08 pm
Post by: Teneb on December 06, 2015, 08:24:22 pm
Damn it, now I need to go about killing everyone with the console to find out who the synths are.
I wish this were true now.Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Antioch on December 06, 2015, 08:38:17 pm
There isn't any part of it that is even above "meh", the writing is just seriously uninspired.
The way the factions act too is just completely irrational.
Post by: Grim Portent on December 06, 2015, 08:55:04 pm
Pretty much every mention of them makes it sound like they collapsed ages ago but it's only actually been a couple of weeks at most when you meet Preston, since they collapsed at the Quincy Massacre and that's where the survivors he's leading came from, but everyone still acts like they've been gone for years or something.
Post by: Sensei on December 06, 2015, 09:45:16 pm
My only big problem with the writing so far has been the backstory for the Minutemen.
Pretty much every mention of them makes it sound like they collapsed ages ago but it's only actually been a couple of weeks at most when you meet Preston, since they collapsed at the Quincy Massacre and that's where the survivors he's leading came from, but everyone still acts like they've been gone for years or something.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: BFEL on December 07, 2015, 02:50:30 am
Post by: Reudh on December 07, 2015, 03:54:51 am
My only big problem with the writing so far has been the backstory for the Minutemen.
Pretty much every mention of them makes it sound like they collapsed ages ago but it's only actually been a couple of weeks at most when you meet Preston, since they collapsed at the Quincy Massacre and that's where the survivors he's leading came from, but everyone still acts like they've been gone for years or something.
The raiders at Libertalia (the sunken ship city-thing) were originally Minutemen who resorted to raiding because they couldn't feed themselves by protecting people anymore. So yeah, Preston's group was probably the last actual functioning Minuteman group, but there was a cancer within the Minutemen long before that.
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 04:51:51 am
In that you PROBABLY could think of a single moment that destroyed the minutemen... but in reality they just slowly decayed to the point where you couldn't create the exact moment the minute men were gone.
Heck the minutemen aren't even "gone" you can still find a few living minutemen out there (as is common in a world without direct forms of communication outside short range radio.
Post by: Grim Portent on December 07, 2015, 11:48:00 am
It'd make more sense to me if there were regional groups of Minutemen that you had to reunite rather than just building things up from nothing again, partly because it wouldn't beg the question of where the Minutemen you call on get so many laser muskets from at short notice, and also partly because it would make the Minutemen collapse seem more sensible to me if the people who ran the Minutemen after the last general died up until the collapse were present in the game.
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 12:12:06 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on December 07, 2015, 12:25:11 pm
Well remember you get the entire story from Gravy's perspective.
True I guess, he even mentions he doesn't know everything.
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 12:46:07 pm
Since WAAAAAY too much fiction gives characters what amounts to psychic accuracy on everything they say.
Not that I think all fiction should have unreliable narrators... but they should probably stop having characters be freakishly specifically correct.
"He was going 100 miles per hour"
Me: "Now if you were a REAL person... that could mean it is going anywhere from 50-120... but since your a fictional character it means it is going exactly 100MPH with absolutely no deviation. In fact it won't even slow down on turns or lane changes."
Post by: Krevsin on December 07, 2015, 02:12:50 pm
Namely, the fact that one of them cannot sport a stylish bayonet.
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 02:14:29 pm
Can you give characters upgraded versions of their weapons and they won't need ammo for them? I would LOVE to upgrade Gravy's equipment so he can hit the broadside of a barn.
Post by: miauw62 on December 07, 2015, 02:44:12 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 02:47:23 pm
The "Broadside" of a barn... basically means the walls.
Post by: miauw62 on December 07, 2015, 02:49:31 pm
Post by: Sensei on December 07, 2015, 02:54:41 pm
Looking at its general design >_> I am not sure It really could effectively.IIRC yes, if it is the same type of weapon. That means the only difference is customizations/legendary status, for example Cait will use any double-barreled shotgun, but if you give her a combat shotgun, she will need ammo. Therefore, you could give Garvey a laser musket with a different setup.
Can you give characters upgraded versions of their weapons and they won't need ammo for them? I would LOVE to upgrade Gravy's equipment so he can hit the broadside of a barn.
Post by: Sartain on December 07, 2015, 02:58:33 pm
Looking at its general design >_> I am not sure It really could effectively.IIRC yes, if it is the same type of weapon. That means the only difference is customizations/legendary status, for example Cait will use any double-barreled shotgun, but if you give her a combat shotgun, she will need ammo. Therefore, you could give Garvey a laser musket with a different setup.
Can you give characters upgraded versions of their weapons and they won't need ammo for them? I would LOVE to upgrade Gravy's equipment so he can hit the broadside of a barn.
Sounds about right, Cait stuck to her original shotgun when I gave her a combat shotgun until I also supplied her with ammo, and went back to her default weapon when the ammo ran out.
Post by: Krevsin on December 07, 2015, 03:13:44 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on December 07, 2015, 03:34:11 pm
Speaking of cait, does anyone else find her faux irish accent unbearably annoying while at the same time her backstory quite interesting?
Her accent does annoy me a bit, because it's almost but not quite like the particular Irish accent I adore.
Really her choice of gun annoys me more than anything. :P
Her backstory isn't bad.
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 04:03:15 pm
She won't use it... Shame too because it is VAST improvement and cost a bit to build.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 07, 2015, 04:22:12 pm
At the moment valentine is quite happily blasting his way through my .45 ammo with the combat rifle I gave him.
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 04:36:53 pm
Post by: majikero on December 07, 2015, 04:43:14 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 04:44:57 pm
Then chamber the .38 to the combat rifle so they waste garbage ammo with their garbage aim.
I rotate my weaponry to I use all my ammo equally.
Other then Gravy... there isn't anyone who I feel would be all that improved if I include ammo consumption.
Post by: majikero on December 07, 2015, 04:47:06 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 04:50:30 pm
Note that... the life regeneration? Yeah... you are never going to notice it.
I was deeply disappointed by it.
I don't know what they were so afraid of giving it a noticeable health regen... It isn't like Stimpacks aren't plentiful even on survival mode.
Post by: Putnam on December 07, 2015, 04:51:03 pm
Not that I blame anyone for overlooking the "Unreliable narrator" aspect.
Since WAAAAAY too much fiction gives characters what amounts to psychic accuracy on everything they say.
Not that I think all fiction should have unreliable narrators... but they should probably stop having characters be freakishly specifically correct.
"He was going 100 miles per hour"
Me: "Now if you were a REAL person... that could mean it is going anywhere from 50-120... but since your a fictional character it means it is going exactly 100MPH with absolutely no deviation. In fact it won't even slow down on turns or lane changes."
Which is weird, since unreliable narrators are basically the hallmark of Elder Scrolls writing.
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 04:54:07 pm
Which is weird, since unreliable narrators are basically the hallmark of Elder Scrolls writing.
Sort of... They make it really obvious when someone isn't telling the truth or are saying something that likely isn't true.
When they aren't loudly announcing their bias... They are scientifically accurate to the 100th decimal. :P
Post by: Putnam on December 07, 2015, 04:56:53 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on December 07, 2015, 04:59:16 pm
Speaking of cait, does anyone else find her faux irish accent unbearably annoying while at the same time her backstory quite interesting?Sad part is, the VA is a Glasgow native, they coulda' just let her speak naturally if they wanted a foreign accent. 'Course, then you might end up with a bunch of idiots whining because they can't comprehend Glaswegian.
Post by: Antioch on December 07, 2015, 05:02:58 pm
Good mechanics, bad and lazy content
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 05:08:35 pm
Good mechanics, bad and lazy content
No... I won't let that pass.
modification, settlements, and even to an extent looting... are good "ideas" executed badly. Thus being bad mechanics.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So no :P not good mechanics.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 07, 2015, 05:22:56 pm
But specifically, I think you're mistaken about the mods? You don't need skill to attach mods, only to create them. So if you pull one off another gun (by crafting a basic part, which is... dumb, but arguably balance I *guess*) then you can place it on the weapon you want.
The crafting skills are really just for convenience and expediency.
Post by: Sensei on December 07, 2015, 05:23:38 pm
Speaking of cait, does anyone else find her faux irish accent unbearably annoying while at the same time her backstory quite interesting?If you think about it, it's extremely strange that she has an Irish accent at all. There's been no trans-Atlantic travel for 200 years, or 8 to 10 generations. Somehow, a family line with a strong Irish accent must have survived without any generation being raised by and parent with a non-Irish accent, and nobody lost their accent in adulthood (presumably spent speaking almost exclusively to people with American accents).
QED Cait learned what an Irish accent is from some old holo tapes and is faking it.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 07, 2015, 05:27:52 pm
Post by: BFEL on December 07, 2015, 05:28:26 pm
Ohh also for those getting the Life-Giver perk...What the fuck are you talking about? Its EASY to notice, you can literally WATCH it fill up. I mean its not really gonna win you a fight admittedly, but it will make sure you're fresh for the next one.
Note that... the life regeneration? Yeah... you are never going to notice it.
I was deeply disappointed by it.
I don't know what they were so afraid of giving it a noticeable health regen... It isn't like Stimpacks aren't plentiful even on survival mode.
Compare that to the 1 point per minute regen you get from one of those comic books and holy shit is it fast.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 07, 2015, 05:31:45 pm
I regret taking it though, it's at best a very minor convenience. Would be most useful at the beginning before you're flooded with healing items, but nope, level requirements...
Though actually the extra health is significant. I regretted it more before I realized that *most* perks are weaker than they look. Which is actually kinda good, in that you can't screw your character with bad choices.
(which is pretty casual but meh)
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 05:44:19 pm
I gotta disagree with those points, Neonivek :P
But specifically, I think you're mistaken about the mods? You don't need skill to attach mods, only to create them. So if you pull one off another gun (by crafting a basic part, which is... dumb, but arguably balance I *guess*) then you can place it on the weapon you want.
The crafting skills are really just for convenience and expediency.
My issue is more that the modification was supposed to be expansive... but there are so many "the same thing but slightly better"... add onto the fact that many guns have the same modifications but require different skills...
Why does placing a recon scope on one weapon take more skill than another? it is the same recon scope.
I actually think that it makes the weapon variety feel smaller then in previous Fallouts.
So yes you CAN place a 10mm silencer on ANY 10mm... But that same silencer only works on a 10mm even though it is the same silencer that almost all the other weapons use... and when you create them it might be anywhere from 1 to 4 gunnery for no reason other than game mechanics.
In otherwords the problem with modification is that... It is so aggressively game... well one problem at least.
Post by: miauw62 on December 07, 2015, 05:46:51 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on December 07, 2015, 05:51:07 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 05:53:02 pm
Yeah, the system could use more sidegrades instead of "better but costs more [rare material]"
Even "better but costs more" could be improved if the upgrades were more significant even down that tree.
Yet for a lot of them, you could cut out the middle mods and lose nothing gamewise.
Now Ammo mods actually are kind of smart. In that early on it is about sacrificing one thing for another. Do you want a lot of ammo or a faster reload? With the ultimate ammo usually being the best of all worlds. It manages to remain significant for the whole thing.
There are a lot of sidegrades, though. Most weapons have three separate mod paths: full-auto close-range, sniper/DMR high-alpha long-range, and crit-centric VATS build. Each of those in turn has 2-3 "tiers" of mod for any given part.
Yeah, do you want a machinegun combat rifle? or do you want a sniper combat rifle? or do you want a rifle combat rifle? :P
This is of course ignoring when the "sidegrade" is completely useless. Like the fire upgrades on any energy weapon.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 07, 2015, 06:02:49 pm
In that I never, literally never had a scrap-resource shortage except when I first worked on Sanctuary.
Basically I just naturally and happily picked up almost every piece of junk I found as soon as I was out there. I even took both levels of scrapper and junked most of the enemy weapons I found (yes, most. At least until level 20 or so.) Became alcoholic from +STR alcohol, and treasured rag-stags for their delicious +25 carry weight...
Basically I've been swimming in screws and steel and cloth the whole time. Despite building up about a dozen settlements and never building a
The only thing that's gotten at all low is fiberoptics and crystal, and maybekinda adhesive... But adhesive grows on plants, and I didn't need much other the other two to fix up my 2 energy weapons. Plus Scrapper lvl2 lets you get plenty from the pile of Institute weapons you encounter.
I'm sure that on replaying I won't be so eager to pick up allllllll the things... Haha jk I'll prbably have high strength and crafting perks. Maybe I'll blow resources on equipping settlers with advanced weaponry.
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 06:04:24 pm
Heck I never scrap my weapons (a shame because that was my entire reason for collecting them >_< and getting the scrapper SPECIAL)
What helps is that... there is actually very little weapon variety when you get down to it... and because all armor is either "worse or better" you can just ignore it until you upgrade it.
Then there is Power Armor but because its defenses are so high... generally speaking the starting power armor is already kind of more then enough for the rest of the game.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 07, 2015, 06:15:21 pm
There's more guns than Fallout 3, and modifications can change specialise them towards on path or another.
What are you even talking about with armour? 'Worse or better' seems to rather cover the spectrum.
Post by: majikero on December 07, 2015, 06:18:17 pm
After that fight with the deathclaw when you first get the armor, I lost the legs to bloatflies.
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 06:22:17 pm
Very little weapon variety...?
There's more guns than Fallout 3
Well... because every weapon is 3 other weapons.
It means that there are 5 you will ever need.
Post by: majikero on December 07, 2015, 06:25:09 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 06:29:40 pm
The best are some weapons get outdated as soon as you get them. Institute weapons? worse then laser and immediately outdated.
Post by: majikero on December 07, 2015, 06:32:23 pm
I think that's about it.
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 06:34:36 pm
Pipe pistol, revolver, bolt action. Laser, plasma, the revolver, 10mm and the other 10mm.
I think that's about it.
Pipe, Pipe revolver, Laser, and Plasma are weapons that span into other categories. I usually count it as rifle that modifies into a pistol... since the vast majority of them are rifles AND because it is just slight modifications anyway.
10mm and the other 10mm are the same weapon.
So 2...
Post by: majikero on December 07, 2015, 06:38:11 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 06:40:05 pm
Laser makes a superior pistol though. Long barrel + gunslinger= super accurate VATS since it gets past 350 in range.
Depends. I find Laser makes a far better rifle for non-vats attacking... even better then the pistol.
While the pistol's ability to shoot many times in one full AP bar, really helps.
The institute weapons are the most disappointing though. It is a clone of laser except "not as good"
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 07, 2015, 06:43:19 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 06:45:10 pm
Just because they can also be turned into rifles doesn't mean they're not pistols...
I want to avoid double counting
Because really the only difference between the laser rifle as a rifle and as a pistol is its name. Maybe a few stats but fundamentally they are the same weapon and the differences are only for the SPECIAL perks.
Post by: majikero on December 07, 2015, 06:45:22 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 06:46:27 pm
Institute weapons are supposed to be faster firing/less damage laser which translates to shitty waste of ammo.
Doesn't help that the laser is already so fast that the damage hit really isn't needed.
Post by: Graknorke on December 07, 2015, 06:47:47 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 06:49:55 pm
Wasn't the point of the weapon system in FO4 that there is a base weapon per ammo type that you then modify into whatever specific configuration you'd want?
No, that isn't true at all.
Institute and Laser are "pallet swaps" with very slightly altered stats (Laser is better outright... and you get it earlier)... and also share ammo with the Musket. Double Shotgun and Combat Shotgun use shells. A TON OF GUNS use .45s
But the real issue is Graknorke is that... it all just boils down to "use the best"
Post by: Graknorke on December 07, 2015, 06:55:32 pm
Whatever, I'll still pick the game up in a couple of years when it's cheaper. It'll probably have some fan-changes by then as well.
Post by: scriver on December 07, 2015, 07:00:10 pm
Pipe, Pipe revolver, Laser, and Plasma are weapons that span into other categories. I usually count it as rifle that modifies into a pistol... since the vast majority of them are rifles AND because it is just slight modifications anyway.
Except making them into pistols changes their damage output and functionality, so not calling them pistols when they are in the shape of pistols just because they can be modded into rifles is nonsense.
After all, the 10mm can be modded into a submachine gun, clearly it is not a pistol either.
Speaking of cait, does anyone else find her faux irish accent unbearably annoying while at the same time her backstory quite interesting?If you think about it, it's extremely strange that she has an Irish accent at all. There's been no trans-Atlantic travel for 200 years, or 8 to 10 generations. Somehow, a family line with a strong Irish accent must have survived without any generation being raised by and parent with a non-Irish accent, and nobody lost their accent in adulthood (presumably spent speaking almost exclusively to people with American accents).
QED Cait learned what an Irish accent is from some old holo tapes and is faking it.
F3 had the same problem with that bar owner guy. Emil Pagliaglio probably just has a thing for Irishness and needs to put it into the game despite there being Jo reason for it to be there.
Ingame-wise, though, the two "Russian" brothers have the same issue.
Edit: damn ninjas! You don't belong in fallout either!
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 07:04:33 pm
Pipe, Pipe revolver, Laser, and Plasma are weapons that span into other categories. I usually count it as rifle that modifies into a pistol... since the vast majority of them are rifles AND because it is just slight modifications anyway.
Except making them into pistols changes their damage output and functionality, so not calling them pistols when they are in the shape of pistols just because they can be modded into rifles is nonsense.
After all, the 10mm can be modded into a submachine gun, clearly it is not a pistol either.
The 10mm turns into a machine pistol... If the game had an UZI I'd count it.
As for "changes their damage output" nope! Heck I bet you don't even know what part changes it from a pistol to a rifle :P
As for "functionality" BARELY! in fact... you won't notice.
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 07, 2015, 07:05:47 pm
Basic pipe, pipe revolver, bolt-action pipe
Double-barrel shotgun, combat shotgun
10mm pistol
Hunting rifle
Submachine gun
Assault rifle
Combat rifle
Laser
Laser Musket
Institute
Plasma
Gamma
Minigun
Fat Man
Missile Launcher
Flamer
Syringer
Some other special weapons I can't remember
Plus there's actually a pretty decent variety of melee weapons, but there's only really a few good ones.
There's about as many 'unique' guns as they had in Fallout 3, really, if maybe only a small bit less. New Vegas kind of spoiled us in that regard.
The main issue I've found is that the upgrades are extremely linear. There's one or two obviously best options you want to work your way towards for most of the upgrades except for the peripherals like aiming sights.
Another thing I don't like is the ubiquity of pipe pistols and the general aesthetic of some of the weapons. The assault rifle looks too cobbled together for my taste, despite being a rather excellent gun.
There's also nothing that takes .50 natively, which makes it seem like almost an unnecessary addition.
Post by: majikero on December 07, 2015, 07:08:15 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 07:11:35 pm
I just don't think Fallout 4 does it satisfactory and in spite having "just as many weapons" as fallout 3... It feels like it has less
Because you basically will toss out many weapons as soon as you get them... and because there are clear "best" stuff, you don't have to try to make the most out of inferior weapons.
Forgot the Gamma gun mostly because it looked like a useless joke item. It's a pistol so there are 3 pistols in the game!
The Gamma gun isn't helped by the fact that it is ONLY useful against human enemies... and only human enemies who aren't in radiation based equipment... and ONLY if you finish the Radiation perk tree...
Gamma guns seem to exist just to kill you when I think about it.
Post by: majikero on December 07, 2015, 07:15:37 pm
Post by: scriver on December 07, 2015, 07:16:22 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 07:16:34 pm
There's also the alien blaster. That brings up the pistol count to 4!
I thought that was just a Laser Pistol unique that comes with a unique modification.
There are a few uniques in the game that come with unique mods. Though the Alien Pistol if I remember correctly is one of the few you will get rid of.
Post by: Kot on December 07, 2015, 07:18:05 pm
Post by: majikero on December 07, 2015, 07:18:19 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 07:19:33 pm
Alien blaster is it's own thing. You can mod it to use fusion cell. Sadly, it can only have a scope and not a reflex sight. I find scope aiming really useless.
Ohh yeah... I forgot how disappointing "Unique Uniques" are... they usually only have 2 MAYBE 3 mods.
Like the Cryo gun... which might as well not have any mods because it is useless unmodded.
Goodness I remember how many of those I just tossed into my storage because they are useless...
Including a Junk Gun.
Mind you it has more to do with how the game is set up. Guns are a LOT less unique then they were in say... Fallout 3.
Post by: majikero on December 07, 2015, 07:24:24 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 07:25:43 pm
If only the Broadsider can shoot explosives or modded to shoot explosives, it would have been a really fun weapon.
Or have a Grapeshot that instead of acting like a shot gun it shoots a solid mass... Then breaks apart and shoots projectiles through and around whatever it hit.
Or a Magnetic orb that fires a slow moving projectile that homes in on enemies and then electrifies them, holding them still, before blowing up.
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 07, 2015, 07:56:07 pm
New Vegas already had all of F3's guns to build upon, though, so it's not surprising it had a huge heap of them ;)
That's not really an excuse, given that Fallout 4 had both games' guns to build upon. It's not like the models were somehow made incompatible, it's still the same engine, or at least I'm pretty sure it is.
A lot of the subsystems like base building and weapon modding feel incomplete or underwhelming. So many of the quests are just cut-and-paste. The game, despite an amazing amount of content, doesn't have content where it really counts, and it gets boring really fast because of it.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 07, 2015, 07:58:18 pm
Post by: majikero on December 07, 2015, 08:03:18 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 08:03:26 pm
If you only count "Pipe", "Laser", "Plasma", &c. as one weapon in FO4 but count the Laser Pistol/Rifle/Trilaser &c. in prior games as different weapons you're a hypocrite.
But in Fallout 3 and NV all three of those weapons are significantly different, appear at different parts of the game, and are paced differently.
Don't forget those named guns which is just a more powerful normal gun.
Quite a few... except a lot of them also had abilities and quirks that made them drastically different.
The Lincoln Rifle being a major one. Doing more damage to the head, crippling it more easily, and having perfect accuracy outside vats.
As well due to the way the game was set up a unique weapon was usually something to look forward to and try out :P
---
Also in New Vegas, and Fallout 3 to a lesser extent, quite a few of the uniques existed essentially to raise a ammo type that went out of use back in use. My favorite is a Unique BB-gun in New Vegas.
---
It is why I said Fallout 4 FEELS like it has less weapons.
Post by: BigD145 on December 07, 2015, 08:09:15 pm
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 07, 2015, 08:09:44 pm
One was that it kind of overtook unique weapons. Yeah, there were still a few unique weapons, but even among the unique stuff, a lot of them have bonuses from the Legendary table, which, well, makes them not-so-unique.
Two was that it didn't have any real control on what weapons could get what, and this ended up being buggy sometimes. Like the infinitely-crankable laser musket that ate all your ammo when you fired.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 07, 2015, 08:10:53 pm
If you only count "Pipe", "Laser", "Plasma", &c. as one weapon in FO4 but count the Laser Pistol/Rifle/Trilaser &c. in prior games as different weapons you're a hypocrite.
But in Fallout 3 and NV all three of those weapons are significantly different, appear at different parts of the game, and are paced differently.
Quote
significantly differentWhereas in Fallout 4 when you have a laser pistol/rifle/autorifle/sniper rifle the only differences are their damage, recoil, accuracy, rate of fire, type of sights, degree of zoom, effective range, movement speed, and physical appearance. ::)
Quote
appear at different parts of the gameBlatantly untrue, unless you're trying to split hairs about the laser pistol that you get given before you even finish character creation in NV. All the different sorts of low-tier ballistics, high-tier ballistics, lasers, plasma, and exotic weapons appeared in waves in prior games as well.
Quote
paced differentlyI have no idea what you're talking about here, unless you're repeating the prior thing or complaining about the rate at which they appear, in which case I'd have to reiterate the fact that New Vegas gives you a laser pistol before you finish character creation and lets you buy a plasma pistol from the shop in the tutorial level.
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 08:13:21 pm
Where's all the funny Fallout 4 stories? I miss them. All I see is arbitrary bullshit lately.
Right now the game has kind of perfectly exhausted me... I feel like I could beat the game right now but there is just soo much left.
The Legendary stuff was an interesting way to increase variety, but I found two things wrong with it.
One was that it kind of overtook unique weapons. Yeah, there were still a few unique weapons, but even among the unique stuff, a lot of them have bonuses from the Legendary table, which, well, makes them not-so-unique.
Two was that it didn't have any real control on what weapons could get what, and this ended up being buggy sometimes. Like the infinitely-crankable laser musket that ate all your ammo when you fired.
For me it is that the vast majority of them end up so dang useless. I went into a "dungeon" which gimmick is that it has FAR more legendary creatures then any other location... I got no good legendary.
And of all the legendary items... only the armor I have is good and I bought that...
The only one I found was a killer pistol that adds 25% damage to it... and one for the pipe pistol that adds +10 energy damage.
Quote
Whereas in Fallout 4 when you have a laser pistol/rifle/autorifle/sniper rifle the only differences are their damage, recoil, accuracy, rate of fire, type of sights, degree of zoom, effective range, movement speed, and physical appearance.
I don't know what game your referring to... In Fallout 4 what makes a "Sniper" weapon... isn't the scope...
Also Pistol and Rifles are exactly the same. You will NEVER be able to tell the difference between an amazing rifle versus an amazing pistol.
Post by: majikero on December 07, 2015, 08:19:36 pm
The guaranteed named weapons are significantly easier to get than pray to RNG. Overseer, Spray n Pray, Last Minute. Hell that leather armor called Wastelander's armor or something you can buy for cheap starts with 50% chem duration mod already on it. Very useful for early game drug fueled rampage,
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 08:22:25 pm
Gun nut level 1-4 should apply to all weapons.
It should probably restrict certain modifications from some weapons to keep everything from feeling blandly the same.
Because weapons are modifyable along the SAME DANG LINES!!! they should focus on making them feel even MORE unique. This isn't Fallout 3 where your stuck with whatever weapons you find and thus even slight differences matter.
You should not pick up a Laser Rifle and a Combat Rifle... and not feel like the ammo is the only significant difference. (yeah I know there is slightly more difference... Mainly that Laser is faster and does equal damage... but oooOoooh)
The Splits need to feel "Justified" as well, the side paths might be better served as a "advanced modification" instead of being available at the start. It hurts variety when "Ohh, I can shoot faster but do less damage... and the net gain is less damage" occurs. It is funny that Laser weaponry has a whole "deal extra fire damage" that is completely useless.
For "Intentionally terrible weapons"... Good reason for uniques now isn't there? A legendary Pipe pistol that actually elevates the weapon to usable?
Post by: majikero on December 07, 2015, 08:26:45 pm
One of them is bound to be not a shitty pipe gun or wrench.
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 08:28:06 pm
Just play in survival difficulty if you really want a certain legendary. Pure probability will be on your side when every other encounter has a legendary foe or two.
One of them is bound to be not a shitty pipe gun or wrench.
I will say that if I was a melee character, I am set for life.
---
I don't dislike Fallout 4's mechanics...
I just don't think they are thought through. Especially with the game's pacing.
And Fallout 3 is no masterpiece either and has serious problems... Just that the problems Fallout 4 introduces to the formula is highlighted when you use Fallout 3 as a comparison.
Post by: Grim Portent on December 07, 2015, 08:38:36 pm
Most annoying part is that legendaries can't be scrapped, which is just annoying.
I'd like it if you could scrap legendaries to get a generic 'legendary component' or something and you could use a bunch of them to give an item a random legendary bonus. It would make useless legendaries something other than vendor trash at least.
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 08:41:43 pm
Post by: BFEL on December 07, 2015, 08:49:39 pm
I'd like it if you could scrap legendaries to get a generic 'legendary component' or something and you could use a bunch of them to give an item a random legendary bonus. It would make useless legendaries something other than vendor trash at least.*THROWS MONEY*
Post by: Neonivek on December 07, 2015, 08:54:54 pm
That isn't mired in bad.
I like cooking. Actually has a purpose in that it avoids rads.
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 07, 2015, 08:58:21 pm
I've done pretty well for legendary weapons of all sorts, it's legendary armour I can't find in any decent amount. Almost all of it is leather, metal or raider, which is rather lackluster when you're wearing full sturdy combat armour/rocking it in a full suit of X-01. :-\
Legendaries can be 'sturdy' or 'heavy' too, they just don't show it. Leather and Metal actually have good defense at that level, as well, though where combat armor is balanced each of them is tilted toward one form of damage.
My problem is I keep getting synth armor legendaries, which is extraordinarily frustrating.
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on December 07, 2015, 09:07:17 pm
Post by: majikero on December 07, 2015, 09:35:03 pm
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 07, 2015, 11:39:34 pm
Really? Synth armour seems to work pretty well, at least, for the stuff I got.
You can compare the numbers. Synth is a little better than raider (maybe, I think it is but I didn't do a hard comparison), but it's not nearly as good as leather, metal, or combat armor at protecting you.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 08, 2015, 01:35:49 am
If you're going to cherrypick one thing to respond to, it helps to pick one which you have a response for. You gave a non sequitur which had nothing to do with what I said, and an unquantifiable claim. In case it was somehow unclear, I was being sarcastic when I noted that the "only" differences between weapon types were literally everything about them.QuoteWhereas in Fallout 4 when you have a laser pistol/rifle/autorifle/sniper rifle the only differences are their damage, recoil, accuracy, rate of fire, type of sights, degree of zoom, effective range, movement speed, and physical appearance.
I don't know what game your referring to... In Fallout 4 what makes a "Sniper" weapon... isn't the scope...
Also Pistol and Rifles are exactly the same. You will NEVER be able to tell the difference between an amazing rifle versus an amazing pistol.
I can distinguish noticeable differences in performance between a pistol or rifle... about as much as I can in any of the previous games. More importantly, they have objective statistical differences and different appearances.
Post by: BFEL on December 08, 2015, 06:12:30 am
You can compare the numbers.
Combat Armor Chestpiece: 15dam/15eng
Sturdy Combat Armor Chest: 25dam/25eng
Heavy Combat Armor Chest: 35dam/35eng
Synth chest: 12dam/17eng
Sturdy Synth: 25dam/29eng
Heavy Synth: 37dam/42eng
So the numbers say that while regular synth armor is vendor trash, the sturdy/heavy versions are THE BEST ARMOR IN THE GAME.
Basically Synth just seems crappier then it is because by the time you start seeing the base variant you see Sturdy or even Heavy versions of everything else.
Post by: Krevsin on December 08, 2015, 07:51:22 am
bold points added by meI gotta disagree with those points, Neonivek :P
But specifically, I think you're mistaken about the mods? You don't need skill to attach mods, only to create them. So if you pull one off another gun (by crafting a basic part, which is... dumb, but arguably balance I *guess*) then you can place it on the weapon you want.
The crafting skills are really just for convenience and expediency.
My issue is more that the modification was supposed to be expansive... but there are so many "the same thing but slightly better"... add onto the fact that many guns have the same modifications but require different skills...
1. Why does placing a recon scope on one weapon take more skill than another? it is the same recon scope.
2. I actually think that it makes the weapon variety feel smaller then in previous Fallouts.
3. So yes you CAN place a 10mm silencer on ANY 10mm... But that same silencer only works on a 10mm even though it is the same silencer that almost all the other weapons use... and when you create them it might be anywhere from 1 to 4 gunnery for no reason other than game mechanics.
In otherwords the problem with modification is that... It is so aggressively game... well one problem at least.
1. It doesn't, remove the scope mod and attach it to any other, no skill required. The only stupid part about this is that removing the scope for some reason requires you to "build" a standard sights, which is ridiculous but I haven't seen a weapon for which I couldn't do it without needing a rank in the gun skills. Yes, that applies to the Deliverer as well.
2. You have pipe, pipe bolt-action, 10mm pistol, .44 pistol, submachine gun, syringer, laser, plasma, gauss rifle, gamma gun, Institute, laser musket, hunting rifle, sniper rifle, combat rifle, assault rifle, sniper rifle, double barrel shotgun, combat shotgun, minigun, gatling laser, missile launcher, fat man, all the melee weapons and the explody stuff (mines and grenades).
I am counting Institute as separate weapons because they do feel separate (higher ROF, better ammo capacity. They are well suited to autmatic upgrades. Least they would be if they weren't ugly as sin). If the "It's just laser but weaker and fugly" logic were followed, you could trim all weapons in all Fallout games to the strongest representative of the Plasma, Laser, Semi-auto, Automatic, Bolt-Action, Shotgun and Explodey categories and argue all other weapons are just weaker and fuglier/prettier variants of the same weapon.
I am however willing to concede the point on couting Institute, Laser, Plasma, Pipe, Pipe Revolver and Pipe Bolt Action as single entities rather than dividing them into pistol and rifle category.
Anyway, onto actual numbers:
Just keeping to firearms, energy weapons and heavy weapons, in FO4 you have 23 different weapons and 7 truly unique weapons (I.E. they have different models to the others and cannot be bought at vendors). All in all that's 30 different weapons (disregarding named weapons which are basically ordinary weapon models but with names and Legendary weapons), all of which are also highly modifiable. sauce (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_4_weapons)
Now, in fallout 3, limiting myself once again to firearms, energy and heavy weapons (and only counting those available to you in the base game, without the DLC), you had 22 different weapons (yes, I counted the laser and plasma rifles and pistols as separate weapons) and 5 truly unique weapons (dart gun, railway rifle, rock-it launcher, Alien Blaster, Lincoln Repeater). So all in all, 28 different weapons. Then you also had the named weapons, but since I did not count those towards FO4, I shan't do it for FO3 either (because that'd mean all of the modifications for changing the weapons from rifles to pistols also get on the table). sors (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_3_weapons)
Fallout New Vegas, on the other hand (same limitations apply) had 28 weapons and 17 truly unique weapons (with the added caveat that some of them are only texture modifications). All in all, 45 different weapons (give or take a few, I think I may have lost count a couple times), with most of the standard ones being somewhat modifiable. Again, I disregarded named weapons (at least some of them, because NV usually gave them a texture swap) and weapons added via DLC. sűrs (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas_weapons)
So while it may feel like FO4 has less weapon variety than previous fallout games, in reality it's only below Fallout New Vegas (And moves closer to it if you consider some modification paths as unique weapons) as far as the new fallout games are concerned.
3. untrue, silencers are heavily dependent on the weapon IRL. You can't take a 9mm pistol's silencer and screw it onto an AR-15 and have it be silenced. Hell, given the way silencers work IRL you can't even screw it onto another 9mm pistol and have it work unless that pistol has the ability to even mount a silencer in the first place.
WRT to some modifcations being obvious upgrades: I believe that was kind of the point. Like it has been said, most modifiable weapons can go two routes, eiher automatic or semi-automatic (higher dpsecond vs. higher dpshot) as far as damage is concerned and 3 routes as far as range is concerned (long-range, mid-range, short-range). All of those routes consist of obvious upgrades (with the routes being mostly sidegrades, depending on the player's playstyle) in order to prolong the weapon's useful lifetime within the game.
This way, keeping weapons and giving them names actually makes sense instead of discarding them the instant something with a higher number comes along. hell, I'm well into late game and still my fully upgraded 10mm pistol finds its fair share of use in combat.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on December 08, 2015, 08:50:51 am
Post by: Krevsin on December 08, 2015, 09:05:03 am
For example, the assault rifle looks completely and utterly stupid. It might've worked if it were called a machine gun (hell, even "heavy rifle" I might've swallowed) but calling it an assault rifle and having it look like... well, like a WW1 machine gun just looks dumb. It also appears very late in the game and its ammo is relatively rare for a good while after it makes its appearance. It's also highly comparable to the much more common combat rifle in its preformance (albeit later upgrades surpass it) though it does have superior recoil control and dpsecond when compared to the most common combat rifle (the short version).
Likewise I am annoyed that a lot of guns take up too many square yonks of screen space (e.g. the much lamented Institute weaponry) and by the general uselessness of pipe weapons (your starter 10mm pistol is miles better than most pipe weapons you encounter and Vault 111 has enough 10mm ammo to last you for a while)
But what really annoys me is how the sturdy and heavy variants of armor aren't just upgrades you can apply to pieces of armor but instead have to be found (or bought at merchants if your level is high enough) in the game world. It's annoying as all hell AND it makes legendary items kinda useless unless you happen to find a Sturdy or Heavy legendary armor variant. Which I so far haven't.
Post by: Grim Portent on December 08, 2015, 10:26:50 am
I feel the stats on most guns mean it's worth keeping a tooled up weapon of each type around (except shotguns, because I hate them in most games) for different circumstances, but other than my Silver Submachinegun pretty much all my weapons wind up rigged as long rage sniper rifles so I can blow my enemies away from the other end of the street rather than carrying around some auto/battle-rifle variants. Melee weapons I feel less obliged to keep multiples of though, instead just keeping whatever my absolute best is. That said pipe weapons, combat rifles and assault rifles tend to be made automatic and dumped on a companion to spray fire while I snipe with lasers or hack things with a sword/knife.
I really like what they did with Power Armour, but then I'm a huge 40k fan so I may just be fond of the ways in which it feels like the way Space Marine handled astartes. I do think they need way too many fusion cores as is, I'd probably have at least doubled the base time a core allows, though I do understand why they wanted to keep it limited.
Post by: Antioch on December 08, 2015, 11:08:20 am
Post by: Neonivek on December 08, 2015, 11:09:31 am
To be honest the game is piss easy without power armour even on survival difficulty.
Well... if you stay on the yellow brick road.
Power Armor though can let you just break the game's intended curve instantly.
Post by: scriver on December 08, 2015, 11:18:09 am
But yeah, I think they did good with the weapons and modifications and his they look (Assault rifle being the main exception). Armor is pretty great all over. I can't decide if I'm happy or let down that they removed the classic "one sleeve cut off" look from the leather jacket/road leathers, but since it was just a giant Mad Max reference to behind with it's not something I get very hung up on. It gets a bit unintentionally silly when every single leather jacket wearing guy has that one look.
In still squeeing over the return of layered clothing to Bethgames, of course, as well as more armour pieces. I hope they keep that for the next TES game as well.
Post by: Grim Portent on December 08, 2015, 11:23:14 am
In still squeeing over the return of layered clothing to Bethgames, of course, as well as more armour pieces. I hope they keep that for the next TES game as well.
Yeah, the layered armour system is definitely one of the better things, and I'd like to see it built on in their later products.
Bit disappointed they didn't implement a 'robe' slot Morrowwind style. I'd like to be able to wear trenchcoats over combat armour and suits and so on.
EDIT: Since I'm pretty close to finishing the main quest after a lot of side questing and dithering around I'm starting to think of what to do with my 2nd character. I'm tempted to go with a luck/charisma build to try out Idiot Savant, because I like the idea, and going for the name 'Fuckface' simply because I love how Codsworth says it.
Post by: JimboM12 on December 08, 2015, 11:26:50 am
I liked how even though they're moddable the weapons still look like the iconic... Icons (and models) from the previous games. This might not have been a relief for many but myself, but ever since I saw a 10mm in a preview or trailer that didn't look the way it was "supposed" to I had been worried the change in art direction had gone too far in the opposite direction of F3's "copy everything down to details" and ended up changing the iconic stuff. In hindsight it was just a 10mm with short barrel.
But yeah, I think they did good with the weapons and modifications and his they look (Assault rifle being the main exception). Armor is pretty great all over. I can't decide if I'm happy or let down that they removed the classic "one sleeve cut off" look from the leather jacket/road leathers, but since it was just a giant Mad Max reference to behind with it's not something I get very hung up on. It gets a bit unintentionally silly when every single leather jacket wearing guy has that one look.
In still squeeing over the return of layered clothing to Bethgames, of course, as well as more armour pieces. I hope they keep that for the next TES game as well.
I admit I took getting used to some of the art changes, but when you consider the cartoon-y Fallout aesthetics, most of it kinda makes sense. The assault rifle grew on me once I took a full size one with my power armor, it just kinda clicked like it was ment to be used by power armor soldiers or something. I think they shoulda just labeled it "Heavy Combat Rifle" and have been done with it, but ehhh.
Also I hyped myself so much on the return of layered armor that I rebought Morrowind (still cant find my disks for it) and ended up doing the Morrowind Singularity even though I told myself I wouldn't.
Post by: Teneb on December 08, 2015, 11:29:32 am
In still squeeing over the return of layered clothing to Bethgames, of course, as well as more armour pieces. I hope they keep that for the next TES game as well.The return of layered clothing is probably thanks to the newest consoles not being horribly outdated. We can probably expect more layered stuff in future titles.
Post by: Krevsin on December 08, 2015, 11:44:13 am
Post by: Egan_BW on December 08, 2015, 11:52:18 am
(except shotguns, because I hate them in most games)What how could you not like
Post by: Grim Portent on December 08, 2015, 11:56:31 am
(except shotguns, because I hate them in most games)What how could you not like
I favour assault rifles and sniper rifles. Shotguns just don't suit my preferences. They suck at long range and if I'm up close I'm just going to draw a melee weapon and start hacking my enemy up.
Post by: Greenbane on December 08, 2015, 12:02:21 pm
Be advised, I only play with semi-automatic arms, as that's how I'm perked. But still. I can fire the two-shot DB shotgun 6+ times, reloads inbetween, in the same time I'd fire a Laser Rifle (Danse's modded, by the way) thrice if I'm lucky, without any reloads in the way. It doesn't make any sense.
Another annoyance: the inability to use grenades in VATS. You've to throw them manually, in real time, and that's hardly accurate on any level.
Post by: Krevsin on December 08, 2015, 12:06:13 pm
also against mirelurks.
fuck mirelurks.
Post by: Telgin on December 08, 2015, 12:10:21 pm
(except shotguns, because I hate them in most games)What how could you not like
I haven't used them much in FO4 yet, but I can sympathize. They're usually portrayed in wildly incorrect ways, such as blowing through heavy armor at short range or having gigantic scatter that makes them unusable past 3 meters.
Anyway, speaking of VATS: I barely use it myself partly because of the issue of it not really having enough AP to be useful in many cases and because of the interesting bugs. I once randomly teleported on top of a building because I fired some shots using VATS.
Really, I only use it to identify enemies as well, or when I think I have a crit ready so that I can just headshot someone and be done with them.
Post by: Greiger on December 08, 2015, 12:16:27 pm
My source however had to go before they could provide a link, and all I can tell with a search is that Beth programmed their launcher to somehow disable any current mods. Anybody have any more solid info on this rumor?
Post by: Putnam on December 08, 2015, 12:18:11 pm
people are overreacting like crazy, holy shit, this is the equivalent of saying that there's a conspiracy against windowless noborder because an update accidentally set everyone's ini to fullscreen
Post by: Greiger on December 08, 2015, 12:27:09 pm
Post by: JimboM12 on December 08, 2015, 12:31:32 pm
So rumors of Bethesda removing all other mod sources other than Bethesda.net so that they can do paid mods without interference from Nexus or the steam workshop.
My source however had to go before they could provide a link, and all I can tell with a search is that Beth programmed their launcher to somehow disable any current mods. Anybody have any more solid info on this rumor?
Run the game directly from Fallout4.exe instead of the launcher. Or go get FO4 Script Extender and run it from that.
I don't see Bethesda removing other mod sources considering how bad the paid mod thing went over with Skyrim. They might consolidate modding for FILTHY CASUAL CONSOLE GAMERS but that's because mod installs will have to be specially packaged for FILTHY CASUAL CONSOLES and I don't see that being paid; most likely it'll be put under its own download page and be installed on FILTHY CASUAL CONSOLES like a regular DLC purchase, only free.
Post by: XhAPPYSLApX on December 08, 2015, 01:20:49 pm
Another annoyance: the inability to use grenades in VATS. You've to throw them manually, in real time, and that's hardly accurate on any level.
I think you have to level up Demo Expert to get the ability to use them in VATS. Not completely sure, but I think I saw that in the game.
Post by: MarcAFK on December 08, 2015, 01:45:45 pm
The final rank of demo expert states that mines and grenades thrown in VATS explode for double damage.Another annoyance: the inability to use grenades in VATS. You've to throw them manually, in real time, and that's hardly accurate on any level.
I think you have to level up Demo Expert to get the ability to use them in VATS. Not completely sure, but I think I saw that in the game.
Fallout wiki states that grenades in VATS was disabled completely.
However rank 2 of demo expert gives you the throwing arc which helps aim significantly.
Post by: Krevsin on December 08, 2015, 01:47:55 pm
Post by: Greenbane on December 08, 2015, 01:49:43 pm
Run the game directly from Fallout4.exe instead of the launcher. Or go get FO4 Script Extender and run it from that.
Easier than that: go to C:\Users\(youruser)\AppData\Local\Fallout4 and edit plugins.txt, putting your mod(s) .esp below the main Fallout4.esm.
Done, "mod support" restored.
Post by: majikero on December 08, 2015, 02:44:49 pm
Also some VATS explanation to those who don't know. AP cost is affected by stock, barrel length and sight. Generally, the marksman's grip, short barrel and reflex sight reduces AP use.
Post by: Sirian on December 08, 2015, 02:53:31 pm
I thought the rank 4 demo makes grenades you shoot in VATS explode for more damage.
Also some VATS explanation to those who don't know. AP cost is affected by stock, barrel length and sight. Generally, the marksman's grip, short barrel and reflex sight reduces AP use.
That would have been useful info to have in the weapons modding screen. As well as ammo capacity (currently it shows how much of that ammo type is in inventory).
Post by: BigD145 on December 08, 2015, 02:54:50 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: majikero on December 08, 2015, 02:56:21 pm
Post by: Sirian on December 08, 2015, 03:06:14 pm
What do you mean by ammo capacity? The magazine size?
Yea. I said ammo capacity because sometimes it's not a magazine (like the missile launcher for instance).
Post by: Yoink on December 08, 2015, 04:47:21 pm
Spoiler: Stoopid romance stuff (click to show/hide)
Post by: Krevsin on December 08, 2015, 04:49:47 pm
Now if only I could've done both Tali and Garrus in ME3, that would've made that game the best thing ever.
Post by: majikero on December 08, 2015, 04:51:28 pm
I think stuff that improves hipfire accuracy improves AP use.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 08, 2015, 04:52:49 pm
Dunno, I quite like the romance. At least it doesn't have a Biowaresque cringey sex scene. Plus you can totally do it with multiple companions.Heh.
Now if only I could've done both Tali and Garrus in ME3, that would've made that game the best thing ever.
A threesome romance was possible in Jade Empire, but Bioware's star had set by the time ME3 came along.
Post by: Sirian on December 08, 2015, 05:54:55 pm
Spoiler: Stoopid romance stuff (click to show/hide)
Yea I'm with you on that one, except I don't take any companions, they get in the way and I like to wing it solo.
Post by: BFEL on December 08, 2015, 05:56:35 pm
It was kinda cute when Piper did it because it seemed like something she would do. Less so when Cait did the same thing.
Anyway, you know what I want? A exploding laser pistol. That would be so amaze. You know why it would be so amaze?
Because full auto exploding laser shotgun.
I mean shit, the full auto shotgun laser is ALREADY stupid overpowered, if totally uncontrollable, just add explosions and suddenly favorite weapon ever.
Post by: Neonivek on December 08, 2015, 05:57:00 pm
Dunno, I quite like the romance. At least it doesn't have a Biowaresque cringey sex scene. Plus you can totally do it with multiple companions.Heh.
Now if only I could've done both Tali and Garrus in ME3, that would've made that game the best thing ever.
A threesome romance was possible in Jade Empire, but Bioware's star had set by the time ME3 came along.
Correction... Foursome :P
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 08, 2015, 06:04:15 pm
Dunno, I quite like the romance. At least it doesn't have a Biowaresque cringey sex scene. Plus you can totally do it with multiple companions.Heh.
Now if only I could've done both Tali and Garrus in ME3, that would've made that game the best thing ever.
A threesome romance was possible in Jade Empire, but Bioware's star had set by the time ME3 came along.
Correction... Foursome :P
...I don't think so? I'm pretty sure you could romance Dawn Star and Silk Fox together, but I don't think you can romance Sky as well, since I think you have to not romance either of the women as a male character before you can pique his interest.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 08, 2015, 06:11:37 pm
The thing I dislike about the romance is that ALL of the companions do that silly "stumble all over themselves" thing the first time you flirt with them.It was so funny with Danse, that I kept flirting just to fluster him. Sorta lost interest except for the amusement factor, I guess that makes me a bad person XD
It was kinda cute when Piper did it because it seemed like something she would do. Less so when Cait did the same thing.
Might flirt with Nick, but IDK. I kinda prefer him as a sarcastic wisecracking pal. I do dig his backstory though so far.
Anyway, you know what I want? A exploding laser pistol. That would be so amaze. You know why it would be so amaze?Honestly my combat shotgun is my best weapon for clearing rooms. I need to buy more shells. I forgot about scatter attachments for lasers though, I wonder if they're as good...
Because full auto exploding laser shotgun.
I mean shit, the full auto shotgun laser is ALREADY stupid overpowered, if totally uncontrollable, just add explosions and suddenly favorite weapon ever.
I didn't notice any perks for shotguns actually, I wonder if they count as semi-auto rifles? Would help explain why it's matching said perked-up rifles.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 08, 2015, 06:32:07 pm
The thing I dislike about the romance is that ALL of the companions do that silly "stumble all over themselves" thing the first time you flirt with them.It was so funny with Danse, that I kept flirting just to fluster him. Sorta lost interest except for the amusement factor, I guess that makes me a bad person XD
It was kinda cute when Piper did it because it seemed like something she would do. Less so when Cait did the same thing.
Might flirt with Nick, but IDK. I kinda prefer him as a sarcastic wisecracking pal. I do dig his backstory though so far.Anyway, you know what I want? A exploding laser pistol. That would be so amaze. You know why it would be so amaze?Honestly my combat shotgun is my best weapon for clearing rooms. I need to buy more shells. I forgot about scatter attachments for lasers though, I wonder if they're as good...
Because full auto exploding laser shotgun.
I mean shit, the full auto shotgun laser is ALREADY stupid overpowered, if totally uncontrollable, just add explosions and suddenly favorite weapon ever.
I didn't notice any perks for shotguns actually, I wonder if they count as semi-auto rifles? Would help explain why it's matching said perked-up rifles.
You can't romance Nick. He's a robot skeleton.
And yeah, I think shotguns count as semi-auto rifles. Makes sense because unless you're clay pigeon shooting that's basically how you use them, and cutting two weapons into their own perk tree feels pointless.
Post by: Sensei on December 08, 2015, 06:41:16 pm
In the late game, when I got my weapon crafting perks all maxed, I tried making a full-auto scatter laser. I normally use a fully upgraded semi-auto combat shotgun, which does a ton of damage up close, but I was getting low on shotgun shells and I had like 2000 fusion cells. Even fully upgraded, I found the DPS from the automatic scatter laser pretty underwhelming. It should be noted I had like an 80% damage bonus from perks with rifles and only a 40 or 60% damage bonus automatic weapons, but still, I think that because the combat shotgun appears later in the game it just has more damage potential by a good margin than the laser gun does.Anyway, you know what I want? A exploding laser pistol. That would be so amaze. You know why it would be so amaze?Honestly my combat shotgun is my best weapon for clearing rooms. I need to buy more shells. I forgot about scatter attachments for lasers though, I wonder if they're as good...
Because full auto exploding laser shotgun.
I mean shit, the full auto shotgun laser is ALREADY stupid overpowered, if totally uncontrollable, just add explosions and suddenly favorite weapon ever.
I didn't notice any perks for shotguns actually, I wonder if they count as semi-auto rifles? Would help explain why it's matching said perked-up rifles.
Unrelated: If you have the damage bonus on pistols from Gunslinger, and the damage bonus on automatic weapons from Commando, which one counts for an automatic pistol? Do they stack?
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 08, 2015, 06:42:40 pm
Commando just says "automatic weapons", so it and it alone will apply to autopistols.
Post by: Sensei on December 08, 2015, 06:44:14 pm
I put Cait in some rather nice power armor, later found another companion and sent her to Sanctuary. Once in Sanctuary... she's not in her power armor. Is there a way to get it back? Is it gone for good?
Post by: TheBiggerFish on December 08, 2015, 06:45:13 pm
Just a guess that idling companions might not have as much persistence.
I have no clue though.
Post by: majikero on December 08, 2015, 06:46:46 pm
Companions have a nasty habit of leaving their power armor though. Not sure about Dance leaving his though.
Stupid Preston! How can you look like an imposing Minutemen if you leave the armor in the courtyard.
Post by: scriver on December 08, 2015, 07:00:29 pm
As for companions in general I was pleasantly surprised. They're fairly one-dimensional but still interesting enough to not be flat, while there's plenty of tiny moments that do add to their characterization to stumble upon. Piper and Nick do have that annoying Bioware-esque "hey look how awesome this person is don't you love them" introduction/set up thing to them, but not quite as overt as Bioware does it and once past it they and the other characters don't really try to muscle in on your place in the narrative. Except literally, of course, but that's a pathfinding issue ;)
So on the whole they struck a good balance where the companions are low key enough that they don't need any vast amount of depth to be acceptable, and there's enough around that if you do get bored by somebody there's usually someone rose not far away you can change them for. I do sometimes wish we had the chance to explore them more thoroughly, but another part of me feels if the price paid for more characterization would be worse writing then it's better to keep it at this level.
The improved quality of voice acting also helps build their character a lot compared to previous bethesda games.
Lastly I want to say that it is clear to me that Bethesda really wanted F4 to be more like Bioware or Obsidian games compared to their own older productions. This is both good and bad. I welcome the increased focus on NPCs and writing, but I'm also glad they didn't go the route of Bioware where lately it has felt as if their characters often try to steal the spotlight and like the writers often turns dialogue with them into monologues where the PC has little to no agency, as if that is what they think add depth to characters (characterization by rant, if you wish). The worst thing they got from Bioware is probably the crappy dialogue system, I really don't understand why they would do that. It's just so thoroughly crappy. Even worse is the possibility that the "only for options" rule might be hard coded. I really hope it's not, or that clever modders might be able to subvert the UI somehow if it is.
Post by: majikero on December 08, 2015, 07:06:06 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on December 08, 2015, 07:09:27 pm
You can't romance Nick. He's a robot skeleton.Whaaaat? I thought he was a particularly decomposed ghoul :P
Edit:
Pretty sure gunslinger mentions "non-automatic pistols" in its blurb.Yeah I checked, they thought of that.
Commando just says "automatic weapons", so it and it alone will apply to autopistols.
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 08, 2015, 07:15:50 pm
As for the Bioware-ification, that seems to be a side-effect of Bioware and Bethesda games having a large amount of player crossover already combined with Bethesda's (and, really, most large developers') desire to latch on to things that catch the popular eye, even if the 'popular eye' is actually just a vocal minority of people gushing about something they've never seen before because they're either young and just getting into gaming and inexperienced or old and just getting into gaming and inexperienced.
Post by: majikero on December 08, 2015, 07:19:37 pm
Post by: Graknorke on December 08, 2015, 07:21:39 pm
Post by: Twinwolf on December 08, 2015, 07:22:26 pm
I wonder WHY they think it is even a remotely good system is beyond me. I blame stupid console pheasants. They can't be arsed to click a few buttons to make a choice.Speaking as a console peasant, I agree that the dialogue system sucks. It's somehow worse than Bioware's conversation systems.
Post by: PTTG?? on December 08, 2015, 09:56:53 pm
Post by: Leyic on December 08, 2015, 10:17:32 pm
The first and last time Bethesda made a decent dialog system was Morrowind.Daggerfall's is better. You can ask anyone anything (not that everyone knows everything, mind), choose your tone of voice, and there's no bribery/intimidation cycle like in Morrowind. There just wasn't a lot of story or background for people to talk about, but that's a content problem, not a system problem.
But Daggerfall is back from a time when CRPGs were actual role playing games and not action games with stats (and maybe story).
Post by: Sergius on December 08, 2015, 10:20:03 pm
Post by: Putnam on December 08, 2015, 11:09:08 pm
Post by: BlackFlyme on December 08, 2015, 11:18:16 pm
I always did it to the ebony knight in Vivec's arena district. Useful for killing people with no repercussions, since they attacked you first.
:)
Post by: Ivefan on December 08, 2015, 11:52:19 pm
first time i played it i accidentially sold the main quest introductionary letter so i didnt know there was a main quest and i didnt mind at all
It was more fun finding exploits and weird stuff, spelunking and going into dungeons way above my level.
Post by: Virtz on December 09, 2015, 01:52:03 am
The first and last time Bethesda made a decent dialog system was Morrowind.I recall it being criticized at the time for being "wiki-speak", since you could ask anyone any topic, and provided they knew anything, usually they provided the exact same answer as 99% of the people you asked that topic.
Post by: PTTG?? on December 09, 2015, 02:00:46 am
Post by: BigD145 on December 09, 2015, 02:03:40 am
Post by: Neonivek on December 09, 2015, 02:06:02 am
It was very like the adventure games of yore, like Quest for Glory. Now it's just yes, yes, yes, or no.
Well remember that they can't go for select audiences before they need to go for general.
Only Demonsouls/darksouls/bloodborne is the exception to the "you actually have to learn how the game works on your own" rule...
and it did it by having such a devout hardcore audience that the general audience also thought it was cool.
Post by: Virtz on December 09, 2015, 03:34:44 am
and it did it by having such a devout hardcore audience that the general audience also thought it was cool.I don't think it was the hardcore audience so much as the setting and unusual gameplay making it worthwhile. Also, it was marketted as a hard game from the start.
Post by: Reudh on December 09, 2015, 05:25:47 am
Curie and level 45 rifleman-build me didn't stand a chance.
Post by: Grim Portent on December 09, 2015, 06:16:35 am
So I just found an area east-ish of the Witching Museum. In this crater was a number of hostile Children of Atom, all equipped with Gamma Guns, dealing ~40-45 rads per hits through Rad-X and Mk3 Synth Armor, as well as protected by MKVII Machinegun turrets, Nuke Mines and what I presume was a Nuke Grenade thrown by one.
Curie and level 45 rifleman-build me didn't stand a chance.
Children of Atom are beasts with those Gamma Guns of theirs.
My first encounter with them was when I stumbled on a trio of them holding out in a ruined church from a Gunners assault complete with vertibird somewhere around level 20. Initially thought I'd just stumbled on a small group of Gunners and was in the middle of looting a corpse when a Gamma blast pinged into my power armour. I thought it was plasma at first and turned to see a guy in robes rushing at me from the front door of the church blasting me with radiation while his brethren fired from the church windows at a circling vertibird and the rest of the Gunner squad.
That was a fun fight. Finished it up by shooting the nearly dead vertibird out of the sky with my submachine gun. :D
Post by: motorbitch on December 09, 2015, 06:16:58 am
sneak sniped them one by one with a gauss gun.
power armor is your friend to reduce radiation damage.
Post by: Krevsin on December 09, 2015, 06:27:12 am
You can't romance Nick. He's a robot skeleton.LOVE FINDS A WAY, GILGAMESH
LOVE
FINDS
A
WAY
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on December 09, 2015, 06:43:49 am
haha, yeah they are bitches.Or a Hazmat suit.
sneak sniped them one by one with a gauss gun.
power armor is your friend to reduce radiation damage.
Post by: Lightningfalcon on December 09, 2015, 07:10:59 am
That didn't stop that one schoolteacher.
You can't romance Nick. He's a robot skeleton.
Post by: majikero on December 09, 2015, 07:59:03 am
He was no match for the womanly wiles and sleek curves of his french robo-assistant.That didn't stop that one schoolteacher.
You can't romance Nick. He's a robot skeleton.
Post by: Sergius on December 09, 2015, 11:50:14 am
there was definitely bribery/intimidation in morrowind
There were the options to do them, but no "cycle" that I remember, except that wheel in Oblivion where you had to be blunt, bribe, be nice and something else in some specific order to get ++socialz.
You just clicked "bribe" as many times as you wanted, it cost money and depended on your speech check. And intimidate and whatever. Mostly it just made people angry so you reloaded a lot.
EDIT: I like old school and all that but personally I hated Morrowind conversation system. Not saying that F4 is an improvement. I think the multiple choice from Oblivion/Skyrim/Fallout 3/NV is pretty OK. I'm sure there's some alternative other than always-4-identical-choice-wheel. Heck, even in Mass Effect the wheel at least was contextual.
Post by: MorleyDev on December 09, 2015, 11:51:22 am
Post by: Rolan7 on December 09, 2015, 11:55:07 am
Post by: Aseaheru on December 09, 2015, 12:38:37 pm
Has anyone else noticed that all the romance-able female characters are impressed by lock-picking? Guess they just like the nimbleness of your fingers...I havent, or at the least have never got the "X likes that" thing. Audio comments only.
Post by: Greenbane on December 09, 2015, 12:47:42 pm
Well, I suppose 5.56mm is even less used. Only by the rather redundant Assault Rifle. And isn't .44 scarcely taken advantage of, too? Only by the .44 Pistol?
Bunch of weird choices and missed opportunities around late game ballistic weapons. Assault Rifle unlikely 1900s design aside, 5.56mm (presumably 5.56x45 NATO) is a rather modern calibre, which exceeds Fallout's futuristic '50s spirit.
Post by: Krevsin on December 09, 2015, 01:03:51 pm
.223 Remington is basically the same caliber (different powder load IIRC) but it's the same thing.
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 09, 2015, 01:18:49 pm
If anything, the 10mm is unrealistic. The quintessential '10mm' cartridge, the 10mm Auto, was given birth to at the end of the 80s after the '86 Miami Shootout.
However, both cartridges have been present in every single Fallout game.
As for the underused bullets and limited late-game weapons choice, that's kind of one of the issues I have with the game. Weapon upgrades and perks ended up being a placeholder for actual better weapons, so by the start of the late game you've basically seen all of the weapons content and picked the best weapon for yourself. Even Fallout 3 had a few new things to introduce by the late game, like the gatling laser.
Weapon upgrades also reduce the value, essentially, of different classes of weapons. Since, with the right perks, you can readily configure most weapons however you want once you've gotten a single example of that weapon, there's less meaning to finding other versions of that weapon out in the field. At best, you can find Legendary variants, but Legendaries can easily end up being redundant or something you don't want to use, and they make the actual value of finding legitimate 'unique' weapons less important since a generous portion of the unique weapons have the same bonuses you can get from the Legendary system anyway.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 09, 2015, 01:19:28 pm
So if the wiki's anything to go by at this point, it'd seem .50 calibre rounds are largely unused, other than in rechambered Pipe Rifles and Hunting Rifles, for a modest change in damage output in the latter's case, at least. That's a shame. I was expecting something like the Anti-Materiel Rifle from New Vegas to crop up at some point.
Well, I suppose 5.56mm is even less used. Only by the rather redundant Assault Rifle. And isn't .44 scarcely taken advantage of, too? Only by the .44 Pistol?
Bunch of weird choices and missed opportunities around late game ballistic weapons. Assault Rifle unlikely 1900s design aside, 5.56mm (presumably 5.56x45 NATO) is a rather modern calibre, which exceeds Fallout's futuristic '50s spirit.
Fallout 2 is full of guns from beyond the 1950s
Desert eagle was produced from 1982, FN P90 from 1990
There's failed protoypes like the Pancor Jackhammer (1984) and H&K G11 (1968)
Fallout always had a mix of the old and the new.
Post by: BigD145 on December 09, 2015, 01:39:23 pm
Post by: scrdest on December 09, 2015, 02:18:38 pm
Fallout is, in general, the spiritual successor to a fictional 50's WWIII. Don't buy too much into dates.It's aesthetically 50's, except set in the future relative to now. It's essentially a world where the Fifties lasted over a century.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on December 09, 2015, 02:21:24 pm
I don't even own this game and Nick Valentine has stolen my heart.He was no match for the womanly wiles and sleek curves of his french robo-assistant.That didn't stop that one schoolteacher.
You can't romance Nick. He's a robot skeleton.
Post by: Grim Portent on December 09, 2015, 02:30:44 pm
Curie and Codsworth have the sort of charming personalities you'd expect of Mr Handys plus Curie has the whole naive scientist thing going on, which is just adorable.
I have a fondness for the film noir detective theme Valentine has.
Lone Survivor like Strong. Strong not mind when Survivor eat corpses of weak humans. Strong appreciate strength.
Post by: Greenbane on December 09, 2015, 02:36:15 pm
Fallout 2 is full of guns from beyond the 1950s
Desert eagle was produced from 1982, FN P90 from 1990
There's failed protoypes like the Pancor Jackhammer (1984) and H&K G11 (1968)
Fallout always had a mix of the old and the new.
I suppose. But I'd consider the series lesser due to those unexplained slips, when the games otherwise stick very strictly to their '50s freeze/retrofuture spirit across the board. It's not that more modern weapon concepts can't be explored, but done right, it's through a suitable, '50s-minded aesthetic. Not copy-pasting a Desert Eagle, P90 or M4 into the game.
As for the weapons issue in Fallout 4, I suppose we can expect (or at least hope for) more variety from the DLCs. The problem is that since every weapon has to be moddable, adding a new one means adding several modular chunks. As for legendaries, for me the biggest issue is that there's almost no unique-looking ones, not even reskins: they might have some special effect and a little star, but they look just like an equally modded, common cousin.
Post by: nenjin on December 09, 2015, 02:40:46 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 09, 2015, 03:58:10 pm
Is that it is chalked full of people who just want to do the right thing because it is the right thing.. and even the ones with confused morals aren't baby eaters.
You don't feel like the only reason they are doing good is because your around to babysit them.
There are exceptions of course, but that is just it... They are exceptions.
Post by: Grim Portent on December 09, 2015, 04:18:09 pm
If there is one HUGE credit I will give Fallout 4 versus a LOT of fiction
Is that it is chalked full of people who just want to do the right thing because it is the right thing.. and even the ones with confused morals aren't baby eaters.
You don't feel like the only reason they are doing good is because your around to babysit them.
There are exceptions of course, but that is just it... They are exceptions.
And then there's the sole survivor, who runs around eating corpses immediately after saving innocent lives.
Really added some interesting subtext to my efforts in the Silver Shroud quest when I ate each of my
Post by: Virtz on December 09, 2015, 04:19:18 pm
Is that it is chalked full of people who just want to do the right thing because it is the right thing.. and even the ones with confused morals aren't baby eaters.Besides the super mutants. Who are literal baby eaters. And green supremacists.
Post by: BigD145 on December 09, 2015, 04:28:03 pm
Is that it is chalked full of people who just want to do the right thing because it is the right thing.. and even the ones with confused morals aren't baby eaters.Besides the super mutants. Who are literal baby eaters. And green supremacists.
Top of the food chain, baby!
Post by: IWishIWereSarah on December 09, 2015, 05:09:31 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on December 09, 2015, 05:32:08 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 09, 2015, 06:02:08 pm
Man, I really don't like how Fallout has power armor or combat-application lasers, because they definitely didn't have those in the 1950s. :^)
>_>
You would be surprised what they had by the 1950s.
There is this weird tendency for inventions to have existed WAY before the time people started to notice them.
Computers (well... computational machines) and guns are two of the BIG ones. I am excluding "batteries" because they didn't REALLY have batteries... at least no more then saying a potato farm has lots of batteries.
Post by: Culise on December 09, 2015, 06:11:12 pm
Lasers do work for the joke, though; the first operating laser (as opposed to a maser) dates to 1960. As for power armor, well, unless you want to include 19th century gas-powered (as in compressed air, not gasoline or natural gas) mechanisms, also dates to the 1960s to the best of my knowledge. In this case, I don't think there's much in the way of surprise for either.
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 09, 2015, 06:25:43 pm
Post by: Greenbane on December 09, 2015, 06:27:41 pm
Man, I really don't like how Fallout has power armor or combat-application lasers, because they definitely didn't have those in the 1950s. :^)
In case that was implicitly directed at my comments, the design of those fits the aesthetic requirement I described earlier. I didn't call for a restriction to 1950s-only technology, that's not what Fallout is, but rather the strict application of 1950s-like modern and contemporary sci-fi art design to all 2077+ technology.
That's why Vertibirds are great in their stocky, pulpy design, down to the name, and hypothetically copy-pasting modern V-22 Ospreys would be terribly missing the point.
It's all about looking at 2077+ through the lens of the 1950s. If something did not exist in that period (i.e. laser rifles, assault robots, power armour), imagine it as if thinkers of the time would've envisioned it. It's something the Fallout series does pretty well most of the time, but sometimes slips for no good reason. Taking the Desert Eagle's unfortunate example, wouldn't it have been better if the concept (high-calibre semi-automatic handgun) had been visually designed through the aforementioned lens? New Vegas' M4 (called the Marksman Carbine, I think) would've looked more in-universe if it had been more similar to the standard assault rifle, with more wood on it and less picatinny rails, for example. I mean, this (http://fallout.gamepedia.com/File:Marksman_carbine.png) looks completely out of place in the Fallout universe.
I trust most of you can grasp what I'm talking about.
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 09, 2015, 06:41:21 pm
Still, I get your point. A more aesthetic approach might have helped a lot (as long as they didn't get overly aesthetic about it, like with the alleged 'assault rifle'). I'm not sure how you'd change something like the Desert Eagle, though, it's not like the mechanism's totally foreign to what already existed (I don't think most people are going to even know the difference between short recoil and gas blowback systems, much less be able to identify them visually). Does it need wood furnishings?
Post by: mainiac on December 09, 2015, 06:43:41 pm
I mean, the M16 started development in 1956.
So it would be more as archaic by 2077 then a M1 springfield is archaic to 2015.
Post by: Kot on December 09, 2015, 06:49:53 pm
Considering the existence of Mauser C96 (also Tommy Gun and Grease Gun) in first Fallouts, I belive that's not a problem.I mean, the M16 started development in 1956.
So it would be more as archaic by 2077 then a M1 springfield is archaic to 2015.
Post by: BFEL on December 09, 2015, 07:13:18 pm
That is all.
Post by: Kot on December 09, 2015, 07:16:50 pm
Post by: BigD145 on December 09, 2015, 07:18:37 pm
Man, I really don't like how Fallout has power armor or combat-application lasers, because they definitely didn't have those in the 1950s. :^)
>_>
You would be surprised what they had by the 1950s.
There is this weird tendency for inventions to have existed WAY before the time people started to notice them.
Computers (well... computational machines) and guns are two of the BIG ones. I am excluding "batteries" because they didn't REALLY have batteries... at least no more then saying a potato farm has lots of batteries.
Battery electric cars were the fastest vehicles around in the mid 1800's.
Post by: Yoink on December 09, 2015, 08:26:06 pm
Has anyone else noticed that all the romance-able female characters are impressed by lock-picking? Guess they just like the nimbleness of your fingers...Okay, this actually made me chuckle out loud. Noice.
Post by: Putnam on December 09, 2015, 08:27:41 pm
Man, I really don't like how Fallout has power armor or combat-application lasers, because they definitely didn't have those in the 1950s. :^)
>_>
You would be surprised what they had by the 1950s.
There is this weird tendency for inventions to have existed WAY before the time people started to notice them.
Computers (well... computational machines) and guns are two of the BIG ones. I am excluding "batteries" because they didn't REALLY have batteries... at least no more then saying a potato farm has lots of batteries.
Battery electric cars were the fastest vehicles around in the mid 1800's.
the first of those showed up in 1886 and they couldn't go uphill
Post by: Sensei on December 09, 2015, 08:41:36 pm
Spoiler: The assault rifle makes no sense (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on December 09, 2015, 08:46:15 pm
It wasn't. I was taking the piss from the people who seem to be confusing the 1950s Nuclear Age aesthetic with 1950s materials. FO4 is the closest we've come to a uniform vision of that in the weapons and equipment. Obviously stuff manufactured post-war is excluded because it wasn't a product of that culture.Man, I really don't like how Fallout has power armor or combat-application lasers, because they definitely didn't have those in the 1950s. :^)
In case that was implicitly directed at my comments
Take the 10mm pistol as a great example:
(http://i.imgur.com/74J2JFI.png)(http://i.imgur.com/fzGpdkn.png)(http://i.imgur.com/r0fjEko.png)
The first is FO1/2. It's a totally flat metal L with a tiny piece of wood hardware. The second is FO3/NV. It's a largely flat metal brick with a tiny grip that looks like it came from 40K. The third is FO4. It's a curved, organic metal boomerang with a large piece of wood/synth hardware. Now go look at sci-fi pistols from that era in real life: for the most part they have the same organic shape with few/no right angles, plenty of curves, and grips that aren't tiny compared to the barrel.
The Assault Rifle is another great example; every single one up through New Vegas was either literally a real-world assault rifle, an expy of one, or closely resembled their aesthetics. The FO4 one is a total divergence; it looks like someone took the barrel of a Vickers and strapped a bunch of pipes and wood hardware to it. It's a weapon which could not have been created in our world. And I've just been ninja'd on that.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 09, 2015, 08:56:23 pm
As an aside, ever notice that the FO1/2 10mm is a revolver? Or at least the appearance of a revolving cylinder thingy. Might just be aesthetic. IIRC, ammo in those games was depicted as individual bullets instead of clips/magazines/speedloaders, so...
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 09, 2015, 09:20:44 pm
That doesn't mean that the 50s sci-fi aesthetic couldn't have been incorporated. The main thing about the assault rifle in FO4 is it's just a little too silly, though. It doesn't look like an assault rifle at all, and even besides that it looks like something out of WW1 instead of something sci-fi-esque. Something more akin to a fusion between the XM8, F2000 and AK-47 might be more appropriate: sleek woodwork, curvy, interlinking grips, a cylindrical or elliptical receiver, and maybe even a bullpup configuration.
Post by: motorbitch on December 09, 2015, 09:25:57 pm
selective fire... who cares. burst mode just is not very good in fps games, and if i want to shoot single fire shots, i use something with a higher dmg per bullet.
generally, realism is very overrated. gameplay is much more important. and gameplay whise, the assault rifle fits that role perfectly fine. ;)
Post by: Aseaheru on December 09, 2015, 09:39:27 pm
Also, Dice, dont forget the big-ole blocky stuff you can slap on the front of the 10mm pistol.
Post by: Greenbane on December 09, 2015, 09:58:46 pm
The LMG-like "Assault Rifle" is the result of an artist not having a clue and thinking this is a steampunk game or somesuch.
Post by: majikero on December 09, 2015, 10:29:43 pm
Post by: JimboM12 on December 09, 2015, 10:39:13 pm
I feel like I'm the only one who actually likes the assault rifle. At them very least its not another AK16 or some other boring gun.
I agree, i kinda like the assault rifle; its what an assault rifle would look like if it was designed for power armored soldiers. But, I feel as though it shoulda used .50 cal rounds and been named "Heavy combat rifle" and they shoulda returned the service rifle from new vegas to take that 5.56 slot.
Post by: majikero on December 09, 2015, 10:47:06 pm
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 09, 2015, 10:50:17 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on December 09, 2015, 10:52:21 pm
It's completely plausible that part of the historical divergences of Fallout was that the battle rifle/GPMG paradigm persisted longer than it did in our history, which could allow for the existence of "assault" rifles that are really closer to alt-history versions of light machine guns alongside proper assault rifles. So, for example, the FO4 Assault Rifle is the RPK to the R91's AKM. This would mesh with the near-total absence of actual LMGs and MMGs apart from the LMG in New Vegas (which, fittingly enough, also matches that paradigm, looking very much like a MG variant of the R91).
Granted, the real explanation almost certainly is that the design team cannot into guns, but it's more fun to brainstorm good lore to fit the lazy design.
Also, Dice, dont forget the big-ole blocky stuff you can slap on the front of the 10mm pistol.Yeah, but check out the form of the suppressor and compensator. They're not cylindrical, nor are they rectangular prisms; they're some weird prism with... I don't remember how many sides since I don't have the game open..
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 09, 2015, 11:05:08 pm
It honestly looks to be a variant of the pipe rifles that's a little bit more complicated. The barrel shroud literally looks like someone used a muffler, tin cans, or other scrap to make it depending on the mod, and the rest of the gun's craftsmanship doesn't even really match up since it actually looks like a properly built weapon.
The sights also make me angry. You put a reflex sight on and you've still got this hunk of metal in front of you. A hunk of metal that looks like a WW1 gunsight, I might add, which just makes it look even sillier.
Other than that, though, it's honestly a really nice weapon. I use it with single-fire mods because I like how quickly I can fire it when I'm dealing with lots of enemies but still take my time and snipe when I want to, and since I have Scrounger 4 the ammo is extremely abundant. I just wish it didn't look like someone found a receiver for a better gun and workshopped a bunch of crap onto it.
Post by: majikero on December 09, 2015, 11:16:39 pm
Jokes aside, I do find the gunsight very useful with the reflex sight. It has enough stability to have perfect accuracy as a semi-auto. It would be better if ammo was easier to come by though.
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 09, 2015, 11:21:33 pm
Post by: Aseaheru on December 09, 2015, 11:31:18 pm
I was actually talking about the long barrels and how they make it look more like the older games versions of it.Also, Dice, dont forget the big-ole blocky stuff you can slap on the front of the 10mm pistol.Yeah, but check out the form of the suppressor and compensator. They're not cylindrical, nor are they rectangular prisms; they're some weird prism with... I don't remember how many sides since I don't have the game open..
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 09, 2015, 11:36:10 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on December 10, 2015, 12:53:06 am
Oh, yeah, I getcha. I didn't make the connection right away because I pretty much always use the ported barrels and they're fairly different.I was actually talking about the long barrels and how they make it look more like the older games versions of it.Also, Dice, dont forget the big-ole blocky stuff you can slap on the front of the 10mm pistol.Yeah, but check out the form of the suppressor and compensator. They're not cylindrical, nor are they rectangular prisms; they're some weird prism with... I don't remember how many sides since I don't have the game open..
Post by: BFEL on December 10, 2015, 01:06:50 am
I suggest getting the fix mod to add the rest of the ammo types to scrounger tho', I ended up with over five thousand .50 cal ammo, and no shotgun shells at all with one character.Clearly what you should do instead is to just put a bunch of .50 cal rounds into the Junk Jet and use it as a grapeshotgun
Post by: Sensei on December 10, 2015, 01:17:03 am
Oh yeah, I should say, I like the absurd design of the FO4 Assault Rifle, visually. It makes sense as something that was meant to be used by a soldier in power armor. It just probably shouldn't use 5.56.I feel like I'm the only one who actually likes the assault rifle. At them very least its not another AK16 or some other boring gun.
I agree, i kinda like the assault rifle; its what an assault rifle would look like if it was designed for power armored soldiers. But, I feel as though it shoulda used .50 cal rounds and been named "Heavy combat rifle" and they shoulda returned the service rifle from new vegas to take that 5.56 slot.
Fallout 4's true assault rifle is the Combat Rifle, which looks like the R91 from Fallout 3. It's probably a battle rifle due to the .45 calibre, which I thought was a nice touch but might've been a less deliberate decision, considering the ammo type other weapons ended up with.Oh yeah, this is another aberration! The .45, in fact, is a pistol round (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP). This is confirmed by the fact the Fallout 4 Submachine Gun (which is copied exactly from the real world Thompson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson_submachine_gun)) is chambered in .45, just like its real-life counterpart. For the record, a Submachine gun is an automatic weapon that fires pistol rounds while being bigger than a pistol. SMG's have their niche uses, but were really popular before people figured out that you needed to make intermediate rounds and invented the assault rifle. Anyway, the Submachine Gun looks and behaves a lot like its RL counterpart. The weird thing is, the Fallout 4 Combat Rifle is also chambered in .45, which if the behavior of the Submachine Gun is any indicator, is indeed designed for pistols (although there isn't a .45 pistol in the game). The FO4 Combat Rifle looks and behaves like a Battle Rifle, IE, a semi/automatic rifle using full-powered rifle rounds. It's pretty silly that these guns use the same ammo, but of course that decision was probably driven by not wanting too many different ammo types.
The LMG-like "Assault Rifle" is the result of an artist not having a clue and thinking this is a steampunk game or somesuch.
Post by: PTTG?? on December 10, 2015, 01:18:58 am
You're in America at the height of civilization, and you can hardly turn a corner without a gentleman sleeping under an apple tree with a book or something, remarking, "man, if there was a nuclear war right now, I bet my skeleton would still be posed here in a narratively touching way 200 years later."
Post by: Flying Dice on December 10, 2015, 01:25:49 am
Post by: Sensei on December 10, 2015, 05:44:54 am
What doesn't make sense is that they didn't chamber the Combat Rifle in .308. Still not ideal, but it's a round that at least makes some sort of sense in a battle rifle. That said, given the ammo capacity and rate of fire you can mod the CR for, .45 isn't entirely idiotic, considering that you can basically turn it into a machine pistol.FWIW, you can chamber your combat rifle for .308 as an upgrade, which does more damage.
Post by: MarcAFK on December 10, 2015, 07:15:21 am
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM214_Microgun
And just for the lolz, here's a random video of a .22lr (5mm) baby gatling gun, now why couldn't an anachronism like that have been used hmm?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3htG_a2bYI8
A comparison of 5.56 NATO and 22lr(5mm) rounds , http://www.prep-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/22lr-9mm-556.jpg
Post by: MorleyDev on December 10, 2015, 07:38:23 am
You know what I want to play? Fallout: 2076.
Joshua Sawyer has expressed an interest in making a game set during the Resource Wars, so it isn't beyond the realm of possibility :)
Personally I like the idea that we never directly see what the world was like in detail during that time, it's largely stuff you figure out based on the ruins of a by-gone era.
Post by: miauw62 on December 10, 2015, 07:45:16 am
Post by: Neonivek on December 10, 2015, 07:51:18 am
Post by: Krevsin on December 10, 2015, 08:39:14 am
Post by: JimboM12 on December 10, 2015, 09:53:33 am
Setting the games Pre-nuke would just be an entirely different game, flat out.
What would we name this game? It couldn't be Fallout as the bombs hadn't dropped yet and if it's set during the last wars....Battlefield: Anchorage? Fallin: the Years before Fallout? Greasers vs. College Jocks: the Game. (Which, btw, now that I've made all the settlements I know of, I might use the caps from farms/water to buy every greaser jacket and put a mk1 mod on it and equip it on every settler.
Our male default PC from Fallout 4 could make a cameo appearance in this prewar game putting on some power armor. Nick Valentine's running around until he mysteriously disappears about halfway through the game. You can get pies from a portadiner without the random element. Kids run around with BB guns and attack EVIL COMMUNISTS.
Post by: BigD145 on December 10, 2015, 10:20:23 am
Post by: miauw62 on December 10, 2015, 10:20:54 am
Post by: Greenbane on December 10, 2015, 11:40:21 am
Oh yeah, this is another aberration! The .45, in fact, is a pistol round (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP). This is confirmed by the fact the Fallout 4 Submachine Gun (which is copied exactly from the real world Thompson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson_submachine_gun)) is chambered in .45, just like its real-life counterpart. For the record, a Submachine gun is an automatic weapon that fires pistol rounds while being bigger than a pistol. SMG's have their niche uses, but were really popular before people figured out that you needed to make intermediate rounds and invented the assault rifle. Anyway, the Submachine Gun looks and behaves a lot like its RL counterpart. The weird thing is, the Fallout 4 Combat Rifle is also chambered in .45, which if the behavior of the Submachine Gun is any indicator, is indeed designed for pistols (although there isn't a .45 pistol in the game). The FO4 Combat Rifle looks and behaves like a Battle Rifle, IE, a semi/automatic rifle using full-powered rifle rounds. It's pretty silly that these guns use the same ammo, but of course that decision was probably driven by not wanting too many different ammo types.
While it is unfortunate the Submachine Gun uses exactly the same ammo as the Combat Rifle, the notion of a .45 rifle round isn't so ludicrous within Fallout's sometimes semi-silly context. After all, .XX calibre alone doesn't contemplate length, which determines whether we're talking about pistol or rifle bullets. For instance, the .50 calibre has been made into pistol and rifle variants.
That said, .45 being 11.43mm, a long rifle variant might have a bit of a kick. It'd likely exceed that of the Browning Automatic Rifle (7.92mm, and possibly an inspiration for the FO4 Combat Rifle) by a fair margin.
EDIT: It'd be less outlandish for an assault rifle designed to be used by power-armoured soldiers. Like the machinegun-like FO4 Assault Rifle, if that was the intent.
Post by: MaximumZero on December 10, 2015, 05:12:42 pm
Joshua Sawyer has expressed an interest in making a game set during the Resource Wars...Wouldn't that just be Frontlines: Fuel of War, but with a really bad ending?
Post by: Aseaheru on December 10, 2015, 05:35:54 pm
Post by: majikero on December 10, 2015, 05:55:07 pm
Post by: BFEL on December 10, 2015, 06:12:32 pm
You know what I want to play? Fallout: 2076.Well what *I* want to play is Fallout: China.
You're in America at the height of civilization, and you can hardly turn a corner without a gentleman sleeping under an apple tree with a book or something, remarking, "man, if there was a nuclear war right now, I bet my skeleton would still be posed here in a narratively touching way 200 years later."
Seriously, I SOOO wanna see what the other end of the world looks like now.
Post by: Kot on December 10, 2015, 06:17:46 pm
Post by: scriver on December 10, 2015, 06:26:38 pm
Post by: NRDL on December 10, 2015, 07:10:13 pm
Post by: jocan2003 on December 10, 2015, 07:12:08 pm
I came upon a campsite where two dead NPC had for some reason gotten stuck below earth upside down with their legs sticking stiffly out of the ground, and two cars had been thrown into a tree. Deliberately done or physics havoc, or both? Who can tell.Deliberately done by physics havoc most likely. I saw cars flying to the moon after some floating point error during spawning....
Post by: BigD145 on December 10, 2015, 07:47:08 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on December 10, 2015, 08:55:07 pm
I just made it to the far South East corner of the map.Mostly because it's a pain and a half to secure if you aren't playing on babby difficulty.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Reudh on December 10, 2015, 09:31:51 pm
I was fighting feral ghouls, specifically a Legendary Gangrenous Feral Ghoul, and I shot its head and arms off. It still could somehow attack me by rubbing its stump against my character. Explosive Shotguns are freaking crazy strong.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Second: i encountered a lone Legendary Assaultron Dominator, and it wrecked me. Those sword arms deal like 350 damage on Hard, and it managed to charge its laser before i could get away - the slightest nick of it killed me from full health.
Second round it exploded after i took out its arms.
Post by: majikero on December 10, 2015, 09:59:07 pm
I just made it to the far South East corner of the map.You also need ghouls or the robots to connect it to anywhere since rads will kill the provisioner as they swim there.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: BigD145 on December 10, 2015, 10:32:36 pm
I just made it to the far South East corner of the map.Mostly because it's a pain and a half to secure if you aren't playing on babby difficulty.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Who needs a provisioner? It has water galore and dirt. Haul the finer things in life yourself. Ghoul settlers aren't too hard to find.
Post by: Leyic on December 11, 2015, 03:18:48 am
Well, I just managed to somehow completely avoid the deathclaw fight in Concord at the start of the game. Good thing too, thing is so much harder to kill in survival.More tedious, maybe. That fight is easy to cheese at any difficulty. You just have to get to the second floor of one of the ruined buildings next to where it spawns, then it won't know how to get to you so you can shoot at it in relative safety. Down side is it'll hide once it figures out it can't reach you, so you'll only have a few seconds to shoot at it, then you'll have to wait a minute after it hides for it to stroll back to where you can shoot at it again. At survival difficulty, fighting this way takes a couple days game time, and there's a risk you'll run out of ammo even if you gathered it all from the raiders down below. But you're almost* completely safe from the deathclaw, so the fight isn't harder, just more tedious. (*almost because the deathclaw has a stone throw attack, but it has a wind up animation so it's easy to duck behind cover in time, and the attack doesn't do much damage even to a squishy new character outside of power armor even at survival.)
Still, it is one of the more frustrating parts of the game. Whatever happened to alternative routes to quest completion, Bethesda? You couldn't set up a physics trap or something? Maybe talk Preston into sneaking to a closer position for sniping? I consider this evidence Bethesda's interest in / ability at making a proper RPG is still declining.
Post by: ejseto on December 11, 2015, 04:00:21 am
Still, it is one of the more frustrating parts of the game. Whatever happened to alternative routes to quest completion, Bethesda? You couldn't set up a physics trap or something? Maybe talk Preston into sneaking to a closer position for sniping? I consider this evidence Bethesda's interest in / ability at making a proper RPG is still declining.
Right, set a trap for something that you (the character) not only don't know is there, but in all likelihood aren't even aware exists (you've been in cryo stasis for 200 years). "Hey Preston, stop guarding those whiny bitches and get ready to ambush something that I *know* is there because I read about it online/played this quest already. Don't worry, the raiders aren't going to sneak in and slaughter the Longs. Even if they did, nothing of value would be lost since all they do is complain. There's only one suit of power armor? Don't worry, you're immortal! We'll set up a tripwire trap with all those pipe-rifles I've been collecting! Trust me!"
>easy to cheese
>Whatever happened to alternative routes
How'd you expect to win? Boot up your CASIE aug and talk it to death? It's a DEATHCLAW. The alternative to fighting toe-to-toe is to cheesily shoot it from a position it can't reach.
Post by: Sirian on December 11, 2015, 04:10:06 am
Still, it is one of the more frustrating parts of the game. Whatever happened to alternative routes to quest completion, Bethesda? You couldn't set up a physics trap or something? Maybe talk Preston into sneaking to a closer position for sniping? I consider this evidence Bethesda's interest in / ability at making a proper RPG is still declining.
Right, set a trap for something that you (the character) not only don't know is there, but in all likelihood aren't even aware exists (you've been in cryo stasis for 200 years). "Hey Preston, stop guarding those whiny bitches and get ready to ambush something that I *know* is there because I read about it online/played this quest already. Don't worry, the raiders aren't going to sneak in and slaughter the Longs. Even if they did, nothing of value would be lost since all they do is complain. There's only one suit of power armor? Don't worry, you're immortal! We'll set up a tripwire trap with all those pipe-rifles I've been collecting! Trust me!"
>easy to cheese
>Whatever happened to alternative routes
How'd you expect to win? Boot up your CASIE aug and talk it to death? It's a DEATHCLAW. The alternative to fighting toe-to-toe is to cheesily shoot it from a position it can't reach.
Actually someone pointed out to me that you can use car explosions to kill it.
Post by: Mech#4 on December 11, 2015, 04:11:54 am
Post by: Leyic on December 11, 2015, 04:33:00 am
Preston's group includes a mechanic, and there are giant containers of compressed explosive gas on the second floor of the building, so a bomb could be jury rigged. By the time the deathclaw shows up, the raiders are all good and dead, you just need to convince Preston of this. Still, all believability goes away the moment you hear gunshots, as there's no way for the player to know who's who (aside from VATS informing you the guys on the ground are raiders), which is made worse when Preston is perfectly willing to trust you with the power armor and minigun while not knowing a single thing about you (other than you're a better lockpick and hacker than the aforementioned mechanic).Still, it is one of the more frustrating parts of the game. Whatever happened to alternative routes to quest completion, Bethesda? You couldn't set up a physics trap or something? Maybe talk Preston into sneaking to a closer position for sniping? I consider this evidence Bethesda's interest in / ability at making a proper RPG is still declining.Right, set a trap for something that you (the character) not only don't know is there, but in all likelihood aren't even aware exists (you've been in cryo stasis for 200 years). "Hey Preston, stop guarding those whiny bitches and get ready to ambush something that I *know* is there because I read about it online/played this quest already. Don't worry, the raiders aren't going to sneak in and slaughter the Longs. Even if they did, nothing of value would be lost since all they do is complain. There's only one suit of power armor? Don't worry, you're immortal! We'll set up a tripwire trap with all those pipe-rifles I've been collecting! Trust me!"
Actually someone pointed out to me that you can use car explosions to kill it.My experience with that is that in the finite time it takes a !!CAR!! to turn into an explosion, the deathclaw will move far enough away to avoid taking much damage. Another possible trap could have involved setting up a chain across the road with the intent of tripping the deathclaw next to a car so that it'd be down long enough to not get away from the explosion.
Post by: MarcAFK on December 11, 2015, 06:56:45 am
Post by: Flying Dice on December 11, 2015, 07:32:55 am
Post by: MaximumZero on December 11, 2015, 07:33:48 am
Post by: NRDL on December 11, 2015, 08:21:01 am
Post by: scriver on December 11, 2015, 08:42:34 am
For the third character the deathclaw somehow got itself into the sewer access pit/broken road entrance and died. Without any other actor damaging it in any way. Somehow. It was weird, but it sure took me a lot less time than minigunning it to death.
Post by: Mech#4 on December 11, 2015, 09:02:47 am
I'm not sure how long an in game day is in real time. Might be about 20 minutes or so. So the fight took about... 30 minutes maybe? That's with running back and forth between the rooftop and the cliff face where the Deathclaw would go and hide because I was unreachable.
Post by: Glloyd on December 11, 2015, 11:27:42 am
I killed the Deathclaw using a whole bunch of 10mm bullets and jumping onto the rooftops with sprinting away when it ran off. I think it took about 1 1/2 in game days. I did it in protest against being given a suit of power armour so early on in the game without having to work for it. Also the character I was playing in my mind was more of an agile fighter than a heavy armour user.
Yeah, what the fuck is that about Bethesda? To me, the first couple missions of the game just seemed like Bethesda was saying "yeah, we removed a lot of depth from the game, but look at all these new features that we showcased in the trailers! You get them right off the bat!" The new character creater, codsworth saying your name, new power armour, settlement building, gun/armour modification etc. all available within the first two missions. In FO3 and New Vegas, power armour was something that you didn't get until later, especially New Vegas. Shit, I hardly used power armour in New Vegas because it was so hard to find, and there was so many other viable alternatives for armour. FO3 you at least needed to make it to the Pentagon first and get the power armour training from the BoS. But in FO4, they drop it into your lap along with a shiny new minigun with over 400 rounds of ammo. That's not fun, you're giving the player mid level weaponry right off the bat. In Vegas, I remember using the 9mm pistol and the varmint rifle for hours until I finally got that service rifle, which was a bit of a step up, and it was ages until I got some decent energy weaponry. Having a plasma rifle or somesuch off the bat would've made the game easier, but it wouldn't have made it more fun just because FEATURES.
Post by: Neonivek on December 11, 2015, 11:33:12 am
Given that it trivializes most of the starting content.
Post by: majikero on December 11, 2015, 11:49:24 am
Also the base T-45 is piss weak and shreds like paper. Had to get it to at least C model and at least 8 cores before I feel confident riding around with it. By that time, you'd have a 4 crank musket and a combat rifle and the most of the north area are trivially weak already.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 11, 2015, 11:54:07 am
But... You do know enemies are coming, so a trap or proper ambush is totally reasonable. Plus Mama Murphy warns you about "Death Itself" coming if you pass a speech check.Still, it is one of the more frustrating parts of the game. Whatever happened to alternative routes to quest completion, Bethesda? You couldn't set up a physics trap or something? Maybe talk Preston into sneaking to a closer position for sniping? I consider this evidence Bethesda's interest in / ability at making a proper RPG is still declining.
Right, set a trap for something that you (the character) not only don't know is there, but in all likelihood aren't even aware exists (you've been in cryo stasis for 200 years). "Hey Preston, stop guarding those whiny bitches and get ready to ambush something that I *know* is there because I read about it online/played this quest already. Don't worry, the raiders aren't going to sneak in and slaughter the Longs. Even if they did, nothing of value would be lost since all they do is complain. There's only one suit of power armor? Don't worry, you're immortal! We'll set up a tripwire trap with all those pipe-rifles I've been collecting! Trust me!"
>easy to cheeseIt's kinda a shame that you *have* to kill it. Otherwise you could...
>Whatever happened to alternative routes
How'd you expect to win? Boot up your CASIE aug and talk it to death? It's a DEATHCLAW. The alternative to fighting toe-to-toe is to cheesily shoot it from a position it can't reach.
* Lure it away, meet up at Sanctuary later (Agility/endurance)
* See that it's there and hide, letting it take out the raiders and leave (Perception/agility)
* Set up a proper ambush with Preston (Charisma/intelligence)
And the explosive perk could give some clue about the cars, since it's the beginning of the game and all.
Heck have it be "wounded", such that the Wasteland Whisperer perk auto-succeeds against it.
They wanted to show off power armor instead of the SPECIAL system though, which is kinda a shame in my opinion.
Of course, that power armor is pretty crappy, so I didn't really mind being given it. I don't know where people are finding all these abundant fusion cores, except shops.
Post by: Mech#4 on December 11, 2015, 11:57:17 am
I don't really think so. Sure you'd start with one but you'd have at least 2 fusion cores at that point. By the time you get more, the content at that level is already trivial.
Also the base T-45 is piss weak and shreds like paper. Had to get it to at least C model and at least 8 cores before I feel confident riding around with it. By that time, you'd have a 4 crank musket and a combat rifle and the most of the north area are trivially weak already.
That is something I realised later on. While the armour still felt a bit given to the player the limiting factors of low starting armour and requiring fusion cells makes it more understandable. It might've been the way the NPCs kind of say "Oh by the way, there's an untouched suit of power armour on the roof from a crashed vertibird. Go wear it to deal with the bandits".
Why didn't the militiaman wear the armour? I don't think there is any special restrictions on wearing them. Anymore that is, besides the "Power Armour Training" from previous games.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 11, 2015, 12:01:11 pm
I guess maybe we can retroactively explain that as "they lacked fusion cores"... But that doesn't really make sense either. If anyone should have plenty of cores, it's the NCR.
Post by: soyweiser on December 11, 2015, 12:38:40 pm
In Vegas, I remember using the 9mm pistol and the varmint rifle for hours until I finally got that service rifle, which was a bit of a step up, and it was ages until I got some decent energy weaponry. Having a plasma rifle or somesuch off the bat would've made the game easier, but it wouldn't have made it more fun just because FEATURES.
Just FYI, the energy and normal gun lines are meant to be the same power level in NV. (Rope kid, aka Joshua Sawyer (Project director of NV) mentioned this in several places). So you either choose energy weapons, or guns, (or any mellee skill). That is why you can start with a laser pistol (if you tag energy weapons iirc). And laser pistols and 9 mm pistols do the same dps. The weapon progression in NV was pretty well done. (If you like not being able to find OP weapons at lvl 1 of course).
If you didn't find any decent energy weapons, you should have looted more dead bright followers. (Look under the bridge near Sloan). :).
I have been Soyweiser, your guide to the world of fallout NV facts.
Post by: Neonivek on December 11, 2015, 12:47:53 pm
* Set up a proper ambush with Preston (Charisma/intelligence)
Preston is nearly useless in an actual fight. You would be better off teaming up with a desk.
Post by: Glloyd on December 11, 2015, 12:53:55 pm
In Vegas, I remember using the 9mm pistol and the varmint rifle for hours until I finally got that service rifle, which was a bit of a step up, and it was ages until I got some decent energy weaponry. Having a plasma rifle or somesuch off the bat would've made the game easier, but it wouldn't have made it more fun just because FEATURES.
Just FYI, the energy and normal gun lines are meant to be the same power level in NV. (Rope kid, aka Joshua Sawyer (Project director of NV) mentioned this in several places). So you either choose energy weapons, or guns, (or any mellee skill). That is why you can start with a laser pistol (if you tag energy weapons iirc). And laser pistols and 9 mm pistols do the same dps. The weapon progression in NV was pretty well done. (If you like not being able to find OP weapons at lvl 1 of course).
If you didn't find any decent energy weapons, you should have looted more dead bright followers. (Look under the bridge near Sloan). :).
I have been Soyweiser, your guide to the world of fallout NV facts.
Huh, I didn't know that. Thanks for that little tidbit, I always put more points into guns so I always started with the 9mm. That's way better than the system of progression you get in FO4.
Post by: EuchreJack on December 11, 2015, 01:43:35 pm
Though I'm past one hundred thousand views
I'm feeling very still
And I think my hype train knows which way to go
Tell my wife I love her very much, she knows
Hype Control to Major Todd
Your circuits' dead, there's something wrong
Can you hear me, Major Todd?
Can you hear me, Major Todd?
Can you hear me, Major Todd?
Here am I sitting in my hype train
Far above the world
Planet Earth is blue
And there's nothing I can do
God, I hope somebody takes those lyrics, sets them to the original music, and makes a YouTube animated video based upon it.
Please, somebody, please. :D
Post by: Rolan7 on December 11, 2015, 02:08:40 pm
I'm waiting for a deal
And I think the steam page loads so very slow
Tell the devs I love them very much, they know
PR team to Major Todd
An alpha's leaked, and it's all wrong
Can you hear me? It's a bomb.
Can you hear me? It's a bomb.
Can you hear me? It's a bomb.
Here am I sifting through my steam list
Full of shovelware
Watching Red Vs Blue
Since there's nothing else to do
(i'm sorry)
Post by: Krevsin on December 11, 2015, 02:49:51 pm
Which were such a big deal, btw, that the NCR was *ripping the servos out* of power armor because they lacked the training to use it properly. (Which really bothered me as a technophile, and BoS fanboy)I thought the protagonist is a war veteran and that's why they can use it?
I guess maybe we can retroactively explain that as "they lacked fusion cores"... But that doesn't really make sense either. If anyone should have plenty of cores, it's the NCR.
but then again, every companion can use power armor without needing training. Which IIRC they could do in previous Fallout games as well.
Both lady and manbutt are war veterans as far as I am concerned. The lady especially should be given an honorary purple heart for marrying Nate in the first place.
Post by: Sensei on December 11, 2015, 03:15:14 pm
Post by: guessingo on December 11, 2015, 03:25:37 pm
Post by: Sirian on December 11, 2015, 03:35:18 pm
Which were such a big deal, btw, that the NCR was *ripping the servos out* of power armor because they lacked the training to use it properly. (Which really bothered me as a technophile, and BoS fanboy)I thought the protagonist is a war veteran and that's why they can use it?
I guess maybe we can retroactively explain that as "they lacked fusion cores"... But that doesn't really make sense either. If anyone should have plenty of cores, it's the NCR.
but then again, every companion can use power armor without needing training. Which IIRC they could do in previous Fallout games as well.
Both lady and manbutt are war veterans as far as I am concerned. The lady especially should be given an honorary purple heart for marrying Nate in the first place.
Considering that the non-chosen character is the one holding the baby, and keeping in mind traditional gender roles in the 50s, I can't really imagine that the wife was the intended Sole Survivor, much less a war veteran.
There's also the fact that the man delivers the "war never changes" speech during the intro. Btw if you go to the veteran hall (the fraternal post 115) before the bridge to diamond city, you can use the mic and he says the line again, and also there is an entry about the speech in one of the computers there. Coincidentally, the Museum of Freedom in Concord was where he was supposed to deliver the speech the day the bombs fell, and I don't need to tell you that this is the first place you'll go to during the main quest.
I mean, sure, you can play the woman, but it makes as much sense RP-wise as using the cannibal perk.
Post by: Greiger on December 11, 2015, 03:59:22 pm
Spoiler: Silver Shroud (click to show/hide)
Post by: BigD145 on December 11, 2015, 04:03:09 pm
Spoiler: Silver Shroud (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: MasterFancyPants on December 11, 2015, 04:40:04 pm
Post by: Kot on December 11, 2015, 04:42:36 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 11, 2015, 04:45:39 pm
The unfortunate aspect is that... well... The fact that you can use guns so well from the getgo is patched up well by saying your an Ex-soldier... Not really a lawyer.
Couldn't they have put a marksmanship award in the house somewhere for her?
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on December 11, 2015, 04:55:39 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 11, 2015, 04:58:39 pm
...This is the Fallout universe. Pretty much everyone owned a gun and was happy to use it. Anti-gun people just, uh...Pretty much didn't exist as far as I can tell.
Ohh they existed, I think they were called "targets"
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on December 11, 2015, 05:01:56 pm
Plus, I'm gonna guess that Fallout 4 is pretty rife with gameplay-story segregation, from what I've read from this thread and heard from critics and friends.
Post by: Neonivek on December 11, 2015, 05:10:39 pm
Plus, I'm gonna guess that Fallout 4 is pretty rife with gameplay-story segregation, from what I've read from this thread and heard from critics and friends.
Tons of gameplay-story segregation.
There are settlements you can get that have less food or water then people.
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 11, 2015, 05:19:49 pm
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 11, 2015, 05:29:28 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on December 11, 2015, 05:31:17 pm
Wait, how is THAT gameplay-story segregation? That just means there's a food/water shortage.Plus, I'm gonna guess that Fallout 4 is pretty rife with gameplay-story segregation, from what I've read from this thread and heard from critics and friends.
Tons of gameplay-story segregation.
There are settlements you can get that have less food or water then people.
Post by: Teneb on December 11, 2015, 05:32:05 pm
The implication across at least Bethesda's Fallout games is that just about every US citizen owned a gun, given that tons of unopened pre-War safes have firearms stashed inside.One of the loading screens even mentioned that pre-war US was a place of severe civil unrest, so it's not impossible the female PC/Nora learned how to defend herself. And that's not counting hobby stuff like martial arts or shooting ranges and such.
Post by: BFEL on December 11, 2015, 05:36:20 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 11, 2015, 05:39:17 pm
So not only does the gameplay take place in another universe as the story
But the story also takes place in another universe as the story.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on December 11, 2015, 06:04:34 pm
Post by: Krevsin on December 11, 2015, 06:34:36 pm
Post by: Graknorke on December 11, 2015, 06:44:23 pm
So wait, it is completely and utterly unfathomable that the lady with the lawyer degree got her scholarship paid for by the military after which they had to serve in the army in return?Do the military do law scholarships? I thought it was more engineering things that they'd pay for.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on December 11, 2015, 06:46:33 pm
Post by: nenjin on December 11, 2015, 06:48:43 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 11, 2015, 06:56:27 pm
...Whut.
What? you played the game. How many instances are there in the game with things that are just completely disconnected from one another? Organizations, buildings, and people who seem to exist in their own pocket dimension.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on December 11, 2015, 07:01:36 pm
Post by: TheBiggerFish on December 11, 2015, 07:02:46 pm
Yeah,because some of them DO.
Or more accurately don't, I guess.
Post by: Teneb on December 11, 2015, 07:09:08 pm
Post by: MarcAFK on December 11, 2015, 10:02:47 pm
Post by: sprinkled chariot on December 11, 2015, 11:53:24 pm
Post by: soyweiser on December 12, 2015, 08:12:32 am
Huh, I didn't know that. Thanks for that little tidbit, I always put more points into guns so I always started with the 9mm. That's way better than the system of progression you get in FO4.
Hmm... can't find his blog anymore. Guess he must have removed it for reasons. You could search his twitter for old NV posts if you want. http://jesawyer.tumblr.com/
(I'll drop the NV talk after this ;) )
Post by: BFEL on December 12, 2015, 08:08:35 pm
So... my attempts to reach the railroad have gone along the lines of this:Obviously PAM detected a statistical benefit to living in an area that would deter attackers.
Maggoted to death
Blown up
Blown up
Blown up
Mauled to death by angry dogs
Gored by a rabid legendary radstag
Maggoted to death
Shot
Shot
Shot
Which of the idiots thought living in the middle of a swarm of super mutants, radstags, raiders and infested bloatflies was a good idea? I want to tear their eyeballs out.
Post by: Virtz on December 12, 2015, 08:37:10 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mech#4 on December 12, 2015, 08:58:11 pm
The Railroad seem like gigantic incompetent losers. First radiant mission they gave me,Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Heh heh. I stumbled upon them by following the quest and solving the puzzle without any prior knowledge it was about them. Them asking "What the heck are you doing here?" I can imagine was met by my character going "You're not really that well hidden, you know.".
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on December 12, 2015, 09:05:46 pm
The Railroad seem like gigantic incompetent losers. First radiant mission they gave me,Could be that raiders just took over the place after the synths cleared the place out.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: MarcAFK on December 13, 2015, 12:42:28 am
I just want to know how the raiders got a pet death claw.The Railroad seem like gigantic incompetent losers. First radiant mission they gave me,Could be that raiders just took over the place after the synths cleared the place out.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Aseaheru on December 13, 2015, 01:17:34 am
Post by: Flying Dice on December 13, 2015, 01:59:25 am
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 13, 2015, 08:03:59 am
Post by: Krevsin on December 13, 2015, 08:13:12 am
Post by: TheDarkStar on December 13, 2015, 08:21:27 am
I have 36 frames, I think, and it isn't enough. I don't even use most of them, I just keep grabbing more of them and I can't stop. I have too much power armor, send more power armor.
:o
I think I know how to solve your problem:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Telgin on December 13, 2015, 12:46:37 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 13, 2015, 12:50:57 pm
Meanwhile, I'm level 32 and still don't have a full suit of T-51 power armor... I've been missing the left arm for forever.Personally I can never find right legs for anything.
Post by: Azated on December 13, 2015, 01:02:59 pm
Meanwhile, I'm level 32 and still don't have a full suit of T-51 power armor... I've been missing the left arm for forever.Personally I can never find right legs for anything.
There's a trader you can buy all sorts of parts from. It's a bit expensive though, it'll probably cost you an arm and a leg.
Post by: Sirian on December 13, 2015, 06:35:39 pm
Meanwhile, I'm level 32 and still don't have a full suit of T-51 power armor... I've been missing the left arm for forever.
I was still missing the full T-51 suit long after I had a full T-60 and two full X-01. I guess I leveled up too fast (what power armor you get depends on your level).
However I was finally able to find one thanks to looking on the wiki. So I can vouch that there is at least one location where you get T-51 no matter your level.
Post by: XhAPPYSLApX on December 13, 2015, 06:40:54 pm
Meanwhile, I'm level 32 and still don't have a full suit of T-51 power armor... I've been missing the left arm for forever.Personally I can never find right legs for anything.
There's a trader you can buy all sorts of parts from. It's a bit expensive though, it'll probably cost you an arm and a leg.
BAH-DUM-DUM-TSSSS
Post by: Neonivek on December 13, 2015, 06:42:58 pm
Honestly any amount of power armor is overkill... Even the worst power armor is way more armor then you ever need... and with modification you can start thinking about taking deathclaws to school and teaching them the alphabet.
Then after you educate the deathclaws they will be able to hold a steady job thus expanding the job market of the commonwealth.
Post by: Greiger on December 13, 2015, 06:49:08 pm
5/5 stars would rocket sailboat again.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Telgin on December 13, 2015, 08:25:48 pm
Yet, deathclaws can still hack away 20% or so of my health despite that much armor. I don't think they kill me in one hit without it though, so obviously there is some kind of armor piercing system.
All on all, it does make me wonder if there's much point in getting the higher marks of armor. It really does seem like the T-45 armor is plenty, aside from its durability issue. I guess that's a good enough reason.
Post by: Grim Portent on December 13, 2015, 08:34:18 pm
I've actually been curious how the scratch damage and armor piercing mechanics work in the game in general. T-51 power armor gives so much protection that really only a mininuke should be able to hurt you, but you obviously still take scratch damage from even potshots from pipe pistols. T-45 armor is enough to block everything short of and maybe even including missiles.
Yet, deathclaws can still hack away 20% or so of my health despite that much armor. I don't think they kill me in one hit without it though, so obviously there is some kind of armor piercing system.
All on all, it does make me wonder if there's much point in getting the higher marks of armor. It really does seem like the T-45 armor is plenty, aside from its durability issue. I guess that's a good enough reason.
Increased rad resistance is pretty nice and some of the stronger enemies can do a lot of damage even through power armour, especially when it starts to break. Fighting through Gunners with plasma weapons and missile launchers is much easier when you have a good suit of power armour.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 13, 2015, 08:40:52 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You can. There's a building interior that leads to it.
Post by: Greenbane on December 13, 2015, 08:47:47 pm
Meanwhile, I'm level 32 and still don't have a full suit of T-51 power armor... I've been missing the left arm for forever.
I was still missing the full T-51 suit long after I had a full T-60 and two full X-01. I guess I leveled up too fast (what power armor you get depends on your level).
However I was finally able to find one thanks to looking on the wiki. So I can vouch that there is at least one location where you get T-51 no matter your level.
I had an incomplete T-51 set past level 30 until I stumbled upon a boss wearing several parts in...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on December 14, 2015, 04:18:19 am
Post by: IWishIWereSarah on December 14, 2015, 04:43:09 am
Post by: scriver on December 14, 2015, 05:09:33 am
I also seems to be having a bug where MacGroovy's companion perk, instead if being a +20 to VATS headshots like it's supposed to, sets headshot accuracy to 95 in all circumstances (as long as the head is visible). So all other bush parts can have a hit chance of 1 or 2% but the head will still show 95%.
I am not sure if this is good or bad yet.
Post by: IWishIWereSarah on December 14, 2015, 05:19:12 am
I read about someone making the calculations for the perks (because those are fixed armor piercing, I think 30%), which amount to ~10 to 20 % increase in damage (depending on the damage of your weapon and the resistance of the enemy.
Post by: Reudh on December 14, 2015, 06:27:50 am
That's my impression as well, but I don't gave the math head to prove it, so I'm always suspicious that my conclusions might be personal biased.
I also seems to be having a bug where MacGroovy's companion perk, instead if being a +20 to VATS headshots like it's supposed to, sets headshot accuracy to 95 in all circumstances (as long as the head is visible). So all other bush parts can have a hit chance of 1 or 2% but the head will still show 95%.
I am not sure if this is good or bad yet.
It's too many 0s. Instead of it giving you a flat +20, it gives you a flat +2000% accuracy with vats headshots. 95% is the maximum accuracy possible.
Post by: Greenbane on December 14, 2015, 09:52:57 am
That's my impression as well, but I don't gave the math head to prove it, so I'm always suspicious that my conclusions might be personal biased.
I also seems to be having a bug where MacGroovy's companion perk, instead if being a +20 to VATS headshots like it's supposed to, sets headshot accuracy to 95 in all circumstances (as long as the head is visible). So all other bush parts can have a hit chance of 1 or 2% but the head will still show 95%.
I am not sure if this is good or bad yet.
It's too many 0s. Instead of it giving you a flat +20, it gives you a flat +2000% accuracy with vats headshots. 95% is the maximum accuracy possible.
Yeah, might be the case. The game could've been expecting a 0.2 increase for +20%, but instead some clueless coder typed in 20, which is a twenty times increase.
Post by: Sergius on December 14, 2015, 10:37:48 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Jf_0p5wgkI
The cat quest had me laughing too hard I nearly choked.
EDIT: May have been posted earlier but if I missed it was because I'm just skipping over all the spoilerish stuff.
Post by: Telgin on December 14, 2015, 10:40:02 am
Post by: Teneb on December 14, 2015, 10:43:52 am
The fact that AP weapons suck would be surprisingly consistent with earlier versions of Fallout. I can't remember how it worked in Fallout 3 or New Vegas, but I distinctly recall AP ammo being utterly terrible in Fallout 1 and 2. The bullets did less damage per shot and the fact that they reduced enemy DT and / or DR barely helped that.There was no AP in 3, I think. In NV I think they ignored either all or part of the enemy DR/DT? Either way, they were certainly useful.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on December 14, 2015, 10:54:23 am
The fact that AP weapons suck would be surprisingly consistent with earlier versions of Fallout. I can't remember how it worked in Fallout 3 or New Vegas, but I distinctly recall AP ammo being utterly terrible in Fallout 1 and 2. The bullets did less damage per shot and the fact that they reduced enemy DT and / or DR barely helped that.There was no AP in 3, I think. In NV I think they ignored either all or part of the enemy DR/DT? Either way, they were certainly useful.
3 had some very rare items, it was like one or two and I remember that the Deathclaw gauntlet had it (was my personal weapon of choice)
New Vegas AP ammo reduced DT by... 15 I think? Energy weapons had some armor piercing, and some other ammo types had some odd penetration as well.
Post by: MarcAFK on December 14, 2015, 10:59:18 am
Post by: Greiger on December 14, 2015, 11:01:26 am
Indeed the .50cal did more damage overall, even to the armored portions of the deathclaw (ie everything but the belly) but I did see a noticeable difference on the armor piercing receiver. There was less of a difference in damage output between the belly and the other parts with the armor piercing receiver. While the .50 cal's damage was reduced by nearly 2/3rds on armored portions, the armor peircing seemed to only be reduced by 1/3rd. Making for a noticeable difference.
That said, the .50 cal still did pretty much twice the damage overall, even factoring in the armor reduction. So it seems that power still beats ap, but ap isn't completely worthless if you can't afford the power.
(Note that my testing was hardly scientific. I was pretty much just seeing if it was worth hauling around an AP gun instead of just my tricked out 50 cal sniper. I may have traits that screwed the results, and I may have some natural armor pen as well)
Also the shoot through walls trait is op. not only can you shoot through walls, you can also shoot through the critter. Making weakpoints always targetable like the belly of a deathclaw, the combat inhibitor of robots, or the fusion cores of a sentry bot or power armor. Don't even need to be behind them... Sentry bots have gone from horrible death machines, to one shot fodder weaker than feral ghouls.
Post by: Sergius on December 14, 2015, 11:08:00 am
Fallout 1 and 2 had AP ammo, but you couldn't unload a weapon or specifically select which ammo to load so pretty much you're stuck with whatever you're holding when you reload. I never noticed a difference with it but then again I really had no idea what ammo was being fired.
You unloaded weapons in the inventory screen with some context menu I'm pretty sure, and you could drag the ammo type into the action bar or something.
Post by: Neonivek on December 14, 2015, 11:09:17 am
---
Also SERIOUSLY GAME!!! stop with the freeken "Come back later to finish this location" garbage. Just don't even let me in the building.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 14, 2015, 12:15:52 pm
Their serpentine charge is cool though.
Also, I really need to look up what real weapon uses... 38 caliber ammo? I've been dragging around a pipe rifle for ages just to use the super common, yet weak, rounds. Not sure if it's 38, but it's by far the most common bullet type I've encountered.
Post by: scriver on December 14, 2015, 12:17:25 pm
Post by: Mattk50 on December 14, 2015, 03:27:44 pm
I've been wondering about armour piercing weapons lately. Is it worth it to go for that mod, or should I just go for maximum damage?
Armor piercing seems better, they seem to only be on automatic receivers though. I think that's by design, because the armor system will affect automatic weapon damage more than single shot weapon damage, so it provides a kind of bypass.
Post by: Astral on December 14, 2015, 03:36:33 pm
Post by: MasterFancyPants on December 14, 2015, 03:40:06 pm
The shoot through things perk sounds amazing then, since I actually have some trouble with high-level mirelurks. (Until I get up close with my shotgun to see their face). More trouble than I did with deathclaws, since deathclaws have been solitary and usually appear far enough away to nearly-kill as they close.
Their serpentine charge is cool though.
Also, I really need to look up what real weapon uses... 38 caliber ammo? I've been dragging around a pipe rifle for ages just to use the super common, yet weak, rounds. Not sure if it's 38, but it's by far the most common bullet type I've encountered.
.38 Special is a .357 only a bit shorter, still quite powerful. I think Beth may have confused it for .380 Auto, wouldn't be the first time they showed a lack to firearms knowledge.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 14, 2015, 03:51:59 pm
Of course, it's still very weak... Probably better than a pipe weapon but a lot heavier looks like. Pipe rifles are surprisingly light, so I think I'll keep carrying it around and using it on trash. (Like a pistol basically, except that would make the damage *even worse* and not save much weight)
The pipe reflex sight is amusingly bad, the default peg sight works a lot better despite the lower "accuracy". It's an enormous lenseless tube which flails around the screen as you shoot, kinda defeating the point of a reflex sight vs a full scope. Probably kills VATS efficiency too...
Post by: Jiokuy on December 14, 2015, 04:29:26 pm
Post by: motorbitch on December 14, 2015, 06:44:51 pm
will eat ammo like popcorn tho. sometimes i bring the .38 with me and use it untill its empty.
and yeah, i hate that reflex too.
Post by: Greiger on December 14, 2015, 07:26:34 pm
But there is just something about that scope. I just can't hit with it at anything but near point blank range. It seems so inconstant. I aim dead center? *miss* ok this is a cobbled together weapon, maybe the scope isn't calibrated. I try to aim a little low, *miss* a little high, *miss* the bullet never goes where I want it to. I can't imagine it's accuracy, I have the thing made to be as accurate as it could be and still be a pistol, and the 10mm's reflex sight is dead on accurate at every range I've used it so I can't imagine it being just a matter of 'pistols are inaccurate'. There have been a couple cases of me getting fed up with the thing and switching over to my weaker 10mm and making the same shot easily.
tl;dr The pipe pistol reflex site is terrible, and possibly inaccurate by design in inconsistent ways. Get a real scope.
Post by: majikero on December 14, 2015, 07:36:55 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on December 14, 2015, 07:54:19 pm
I'd say that Fallout characters have a proud history of being stupid but that's... not really the case. At all. Even the 1-int runs were incredibly good at somehow finding the next person to gibber at. I guess you could call that "luck" though. Oh wait that's also a stat, uh, fate I guess.
Post by: Grim Portent on December 14, 2015, 08:46:22 pm
Point of order, player characters are not players :P
I'd say that Fallout characters have a proud history of being stupid but that's... not really the case. At all. Even the 1-int runs were incredibly good at somehow finding the next person to gibber at. I guess you could call that "luck" though. Oh wait that's also a stat, uh, fate I guess.
Could also be sheer bloody minded persistence. Gibber at enough people and eventually something will happen.
Post by: majikero on December 14, 2015, 09:13:55 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 14, 2015, 09:20:09 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on December 14, 2015, 09:24:21 pm
If you gibber at everyone all the time, by sheer probability, you'll finish all the quest. Especially since most of the quest requires you to shoot people so odds are, people not shooting you means they want you to shoot someone and those shooting you are the ones you need to shoot.But sometimes the people to shoot just gibber back.
Only safe course is to shoot everyone?
That'd work pretty well in FO3 and later. "Oh this meatsack is invincible, better listen!" In FO2... Wow, I don't think I *ever* tried shooting up Arroyo, but I assume you're permitted to? I wonder how that even works with later events.
But in Fallout 1/2 I guess a mass-murderer would just have to find the Master or the Enclave on your own. Almost positive it was impossible to render the games unwinnable (well, except for FO1's time restrictions...)
I remember getting help to reach the Enclave base (I only finished 2 not 1) but I'm sure there was a way. Maybe a repair skill check.
In the fallout universe I would expect someone gibbering at people to be shotOr become a raider.
New Vegas had at least one loony NPC, and FO4 has its loony psycher. In general my impression is that crazy personalities are practically encouraged. The devastation brought out the extremist in many.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 14, 2015, 10:07:05 pm
Also, for settlement woes, more mods for the mod throne:
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/2683/? (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/2683/?)
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/2819/? (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/2819/?)
Post by: BFEL on December 14, 2015, 10:46:58 pm
I mean, not as much as the ACTUAL reflex sights other guns get, but I think its better then the default sights at least.
Also am I the only one who does testing to see how much Shaun changes depending on what you and your other look like?
I mean, there is obviously defaultbrightwhite Shaun and black!Shaun, but I've been trying to see if for instance the claim that "Shaun has your eyes" made to the mother is true or not.
Well I've been TRYING, but I keep getting distracted by playing the game :P
Post by: Rolan7 on December 14, 2015, 11:05:03 pm
And I didn't do experiments, but my PC's Indian and Nate's... Irish, basically. Result seemed to be pretty light, far as I remember, but I think somewhat dark.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I sorta wish that instead of recording "fuckface" they'd recorded different background for different special levels. My high cha/int character happened to be a lawyer so it worked out, but... still.
(Okay that's not fair, the "Fuckface" thing sounds funny. I'd be amazed if they made dialogue for "Roan")
Post by: AlleeCat on December 14, 2015, 11:23:22 pm
I don't know where people are finding all these abundant fusion cores, except shops.Random ammo boxes. I once found 8 fusion cores in an ammo box in front of the BOS police station that I forget the name of at this moment. Yes, cores. Not cells. This was around level 15.
Post by: Reudh on December 14, 2015, 11:35:15 pm
So I guess that makes me literally the only person who likes the pipe reflex sight :P
I mean, not as much as the ACTUAL reflex sights other guns get, but I think its better then the default sights at least.
Also am I the only one who does testing to see how much Shaun changes depending on what you and your other look like?
I mean, there is obviously defaultbrightwhite Shaun and black!Shaun, but I've been trying to see if for instance the claim that "Shaun has your eyes" made to the mother is true or not.
Well I've been TRYING, but I keep getting distracted by playing the game :P
He inherits facial structure too - my brother made a hideously ugly character and Sean inherited the big ears and micrognathia.
Post by: BFEL on December 15, 2015, 06:49:20 am
So I guess that makes me literally the only person who likes the pipe reflex sight :P
I mean, not as much as the ACTUAL reflex sights other guns get, but I think its better then the default sights at least.
Also am I the only one who does testing to see how much Shaun changes depending on what you and your other look like?
I mean, there is obviously defaultbrightwhite Shaun and black!Shaun, but I've been trying to see if for instance the claim that "Shaun has your eyes" made to the mother is true or not.
Well I've been TRYING, but I keep getting distracted by playing the game :P
He inherits facial structure too - my brother made a hideously ugly character and Sean inherited the big ears and micrognathia.
I AM FINALLY HAPPY
Post by: Krevsin on December 15, 2015, 10:43:59 am
Namely, the high-end human enemy groups, Gunners. They have enough manpower and weapons to take over entire settlements and build extensive networks of fortifications throughout the Commonwealth for seemingly no goddamn reason other to just be there and attack random passers by (most often myself, but I've met some provisioners of mine engaged in firefights with them).
That's just plain stupid behaviour. Now raider groups I'd get. But a mercenary company? They have enough manpower and fortifications that they could easily be the richest group in the whole commonwealth by just providing safe havens to trade caravans or by offering their protective services to those who can pay. But nope, all they gotta do is sit around in their forts all day and shoot at brahmin because reasons I guess.
FFS just call them a raider gang, Bethesda. Don't fuck around with this "Mercenary company" nonsense. It was silly in FO3, and it's silly here. Hell, at least in FO3 you were occasionally ambushed by a group of Talons who went on about a bounty or somesuch and you could pretend that someone wants you dead. here, the gunners are just there because they're there.
Post by: BigD145 on December 15, 2015, 11:18:38 am
Here, the gunners are just there because they're there.
Sometimes right next door to Super Mutants and Raiders. A block away from each other. Do they fight? Nope. They are just there waiting for you. Every once in awhile a vertibird will show up and blow up.
Post by: BFEL on December 15, 2015, 11:26:57 am
Post by: Reudh on December 15, 2015, 12:03:41 pm
Cleared the entire thing, sniped all the ones on the freeway above.
WHHHHIISTLE, somehow survive a mininuke to the face.
Spin to see where it came from, and their captain is firing another one. Dead. Not big surprise.
Mininukes are not remotely fun unless you've already spotted it firing, are quick enough to get into vats and snipe it out of the sky.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 15, 2015, 12:43:39 pm
Post by: Virtz on December 15, 2015, 01:36:54 pm
That'd work pretty well in FO3 and later. "Oh this meatsack is invincible, better listen!" In FO2... Wow, I don't think I *ever* tried shooting up Arroyo, but I assume you're permitted to? I wonder how that even works with later events.IIRC, you can shoot up Arroyo and Vault 13, but you get game over'd once you leave. Cause you kinda destroyed the reason you were doing anything.
But in Fallout 1/2 I guess a mass-murderer would just have to find the Master or the Enclave on your own. Almost positive it was impossible to render the games unwinnable (well, except for FO1's time restrictions...)
I remember getting help to reach the Enclave base (I only finished 2 not 1) but I'm sure there was a way. Maybe a repair skill check.
Post by: BigD145 on December 15, 2015, 01:40:16 pm
Yeah, I'm not really sure why mininukes are more common than missile launchers, that seems very much like a 'fuck you' feature. Even high end PA doesn't really help with survival when some random unnamed gunner has a Fatman. That said, it still doesn't really add to the challenge, either they hit you and you die or they don't and they die.
Your power armor fu is weak, obviously.
Post by: Kot on December 15, 2015, 01:42:52 pm
Well, it's more annoying from the "common sense" point of view.Yeah, I'm not really sure why mininukes are more common than missile launchers, that seems very much like a 'fuck you' feature. Even high end PA doesn't really help with survival when some random unnamed gunner has a Fatman. That said, it still doesn't really add to the challenge, either they hit you and you die or they don't and they die.
Your power armor fu is weak, obviously.
I mean, holy shit, thee amount of mini-nukes they're shooting all over the place would be enough for another three Great Wars.
Post by: BigD145 on December 15, 2015, 01:47:35 pm
Post by: Greenbane on December 15, 2015, 01:52:45 pm
It'd be amusing.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 15, 2015, 02:00:49 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 15, 2015, 02:02:23 pm
Missiles feel somewhat underwhelming in power.
They are underwhelming in power.
Post by: Jacob/Lee on December 15, 2015, 02:17:54 pm
Yeah, I'm not really sure why mininukes are more common than missile launchers, that seems very much like a 'fuck you' feature. Even high end PA doesn't really help with survival when some random unnamed gunner has a Fatman. That said, it still doesn't really add to the challenge, either they hit you and you die or they don't and they die.Mininukes are easy to avoid if you can get the high ground. I once cheesed a raider called Boomer by standing on a rock that was way above him and he just kept lobbing nukes right over my head.
Of course, that isn't always an option. The unique Gunner in Quincy that stands in the church steeple and carries a fat man AND a missile launcher comes to mind.
Post by: Greenbane on December 15, 2015, 02:50:55 pm
Missiles feel somewhat underwhelming in power.
They are underwhelming in power.
Not that much if you invest in the explosives perk, which allows missiles to deal up to 300-ish damage.
But granted, I measure all damage through the potential of sneak criticals. 300 is a lot for area damage when multiplied by 3 or 3.5 from Ninja's upper levels.
Post by: Neonivek on December 15, 2015, 03:01:39 pm
The lack of power is mostly caused by the fact that a 10mm Pistol can outdamage a missile launcher... and a LOT of enemies have explosive resistance (which is better than armor)
Post by: Greenbane on December 15, 2015, 03:17:23 pm
I am not sure explosives benefit from sneak boost
The lack of power is mostly caused by the fact that a 10mm Pistol can outdamage a missile launcher... and a LOT of enemies have explosive resistance (which is better than armor)
I'm fairly sure explosives do benefit from sneak criticals. I think even grenades.
As for resistance, it's weird. I distinctly remember VATS projecting a very minor impact when aiming a missile launcher at a beefy enemy (Super Mutant), yet the actual damage was far more reasonable when the actual warhead struck.
Post by: scriver on December 15, 2015, 03:32:20 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 15, 2015, 03:35:43 pm
Eh he he he (http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/400056883489843398/00F7AC6EFD9658677BB5C0B934DD40EEC37E9DF2/)
Too bad the Fatman is useless :P because the mininuke is SO rare... you will just go straight to the SUPER Fatman (and maybe give it the MIRV upgrade too)
Add that the Super Fatman DOUBLES the mininukes :P it means you fire 16 mininukes in one shot at the price of 1 ammo.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 15, 2015, 03:40:56 pm
And molotovs, thinking about it.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 15, 2015, 03:56:58 pm
But ugh, mininuke enemies. They ought to shout "ONE IN THE PIPE" or something, and take more time to aim :P
I've never managed to even target one in VATs yet. I've tried to target grenades in mid-air but it didn't seem to work, but I accidentally targeted one that had landed (a live grenade, not a mine) so maybe I was unlucky before.
Is anyone able to use grenades in VATS at present? Apparently it was possible if you cooked the grenade before launching VATS, but most people are saying that has been disabled now.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 15, 2015, 04:17:26 pm
Your power armor fu is weak, obviously.
My PA fu is stronger than the raging albino deathclaw, however in the middle of multi-opponent combat when the only indicator is 'wheee-BOOM', it is surprisingly easy to be killed while using legendary X-01 VI everything. If I'm at full health when I get hit (or am near the impact point) it's more like every limb crippled and my health nearly depleted tho'. (My build decisions regarding endurance could be called into question tho', hey I need Cha and Int more, okay?)
Post by: Neonivek on December 15, 2015, 04:59:06 pm
Riddle me this. If the Fallout universe is perpetually stuck with the fifties mentality and never really computerized anything, why do no records exist? Surviving books are valuable, some kind of tapes existed at least in F3, but records were huge for the time and would be highly valuable to anyone inclined to preserving pre-war anything or just as entertainment. Radio's always a big thing in the Fallout titles, what's the music stored on?
Magnetic Film...
And Black Vinyl
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 15, 2015, 05:01:38 pm
Riddle me this. If the Fallout universe is perpetually stuck with the fifties mentality and never really computerized anything, why do no records exist? Surviving books are valuable, some kind of tapes existed at least in F3, but records were huge for the time and would be highly valuable to anyone inclined to preserving pre-war anything or just as entertainment. Radio's always a big thing in the Fallout titles, what's the music stored on?Holotapes are everywhere
Post by: miauw62 on December 15, 2015, 05:02:50 pm
Riddle me this. If the Fallout universe is perpetually stuck with the fifties mentality and never really computerized anything, why do no records exist? Surviving books are valuable, some kind of tapes existed at least in F3, but records were huge for the time and would be highly valuable to anyone inclined to preserving pre-war anything or just as entertainment. Radio's always a big thing in the Fallout titles, what's the music stored on?Pre-war ghouls.
Post by: Neonivek on December 15, 2015, 05:04:08 pm
Note: Yes I am aware it is actually laziness... I prefer to pretend they mastered noise cancelation even to the point of negating huge loud noises.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 15, 2015, 05:45:52 pm
Bethesda throws in power armor so of course they have to ramp up the other extremes. It may or may not be the best way to balance but it is A way.So there wasn't power armor in previous Fallout games? And it didn't quickly become the de-facto "best" armor that every character wore unless you were willing to gimp yourself? At least here it's an option.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on December 15, 2015, 05:51:42 pm
There's a couple mods that increase the radius of missile and mininuke explosions and up their damage if you want it.Bethesda throws in power armor so of course they have to ramp up the other extremes. It may or may not be the best way to balance but it is A way.So there wasn't power armor in previous Fallout games? And it didn't quickly become the de-facto "best" armor that every character wore unless you were willing to gimp yourself? At least here it's an option.
Not really, many people often go without the power armor. (Only in fallout 1 and 2 was it the BEST armor due to the way weapons worked back then) and typically it takes a long time to reach it as well, in 1 you needed to complete some very lategame quests in a very near suicidal area to get the BoS to cough up training for it, 2 was easier if you wanted to glitch skip the game but otherwise was in a very lategame area, 3 also required some mid to lategame training and new vegas the same as well.
The problem with the power armor in 4 is that it's literally in the very early game, you find it in the first area after Sanctuary, in previous games you typically pickup what amounts to a better gun in the second area, here you get a minigun and a full on tank suit of power armor without training or really needing to earn it.
Post by: Glloyd on December 15, 2015, 06:04:36 pm
Post by: miauw62 on December 15, 2015, 06:12:08 pm
Beth made PA more like a wearable tank, which lets it function early in the game without necessarily being OP.
you just get far too many fusion cores and they last far too long, so you can just use it all the time instead of when you're expecting heavy resistance.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 15, 2015, 06:22:03 pm
(Having to use radaway in the sea didn't bother me since it's an area designed to be... inhospitable. Really enjoyed that. Rad-X didn't help as much I expected though)
Between that and the supply lines only moving junk, they apparently expect everyone to just fast travel everywhere after the first few hours... Which I'm doing a lot more often now, but I prefer walking when I can.
I'd be happiest if power armor didn't cost much to travel in, but drained quicker in combat instead. What I *really* want is a coach system like in Skyrim (I loved the mod which expanded the coach network. I used it and Frostfall and practically never fast-traveled otherwise).
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on December 15, 2015, 06:28:51 pm
Post by: MarcAFK on December 15, 2015, 06:36:11 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on December 15, 2015, 06:38:02 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on December 15, 2015, 07:31:10 pm
Plus in New Vegas there were enough better alternatives that I never really found myself using power armour, along a ton of different high level gear that complemented different builds much better than power armour.Riot Armor wins! :D
Post by: Krevsin on December 15, 2015, 07:40:16 pm
I much prefered the fast travel in Morrowind. Want to go somewhere? Take the bloody bus, you peasant. Or fly there if you're a demigod.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 15, 2015, 07:41:45 pm
Post by: Krevsin on December 15, 2015, 07:44:01 pm
Post by: Greenbane on December 15, 2015, 09:29:51 pm
Post by: majikero on December 15, 2015, 10:37:47 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on December 16, 2015, 04:05:18 am
In New Vegas I'd always just rush to the Brotherhood as fast as I could with a build specifically designed to make joining them easy so I could get power armour without having to wait ages for it.
In F3 I did much the same, but leveling was a bit more important to get past some of the more difficult quests in the main story, which always just annoyed me more than anything else since power armour was arbitrarily locked behind the main quest.
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 16, 2015, 05:54:44 am
Post by: scriver on December 16, 2015, 06:24:54 am
On the note of getting PA really early in the game compared to the earlier ones, delaying it just winds up with people either rushing through quests to get it as fast as they can or feeling unable to play the character concept they want to (such as a power armoured badass,) which is especially a problem on replays.
In New Vegas I'd always just rush to the Brotherhood as fast as I could with a build specifically designed to make joining them easy so I could get power armour without having to wait ages for it.
In F3 I did much the same, but leveling was a bit more important to get past some of the more difficult quests in the main story, which always just annoyed me more than anything else since power armour was arbitrarily locked behind the main quest.
I always just grabbed the power armour training holotype at the crashed vertibird site while doing the whole Nipton run around. Defeating the robots there could be hard at low levels (especially with mods) but you could usually manage it with a bit of patience.
Post by: AoshimaMichio on December 16, 2015, 08:50:57 am
Just in general, I find the fast travel in the newer Bethesda games annoying.
I much prefered the fast travel in Morrowind. Want to go somewhere? Take the bloody bus, you peasant. Or fly there if you're a demigod.
Or call a vertibird. So far I have used it only once and it was nice.
Post by: BFEL on December 16, 2015, 09:05:07 am
Just in general, I find the fast travel in the newer Bethesda games annoying.
I much prefered the fast travel in Morrowind. Want to go somewhere? Take the bloody bus, you peasant. Or fly there if you're a demigod.
Or call a vertibird. So far I have used it only once and it was nice.
The only time I used a vertibird grenade was when I was overencumbered. And then completely forgot about that particular utility of it.
Now ARTILLERY grenades, those I abused the fuck out of. Doesn't really help that you can easily end up with 50 pounds of them from your settlements.
Only problem is setting up the damn things.
Y'know what would be nice? Some map option to show artillery coverage areas. I mean they have one for supply lines (btw do those share resources? And if so do you start the line from the one you want to give resources to or take resources from?) so hopefully some enterprising modder will work that shit out.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 16, 2015, 09:19:42 am
Post by: scriver on December 16, 2015, 09:21:38 am
Also, I can't be the only one who is always critically overloaded, can I?
Post by: AoshimaMichio on December 16, 2015, 09:28:08 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 16, 2015, 09:42:41 am
Does it just spawn a minuteman nearby to help you?
Post by: Jacob/Lee on December 16, 2015, 09:57:27 am
How does the flare gun reinforcement thing work?It spawns a handful of minutemen (wiki claims 3-6) nearby who run to your location. You have to use it within range of a settlement for it to work, like the artillery piece (except the flare gun's range is three grid squares, while the artillery's is four).
Does it just spawn a minuteman nearby to help you?
Post by: Greiger on December 16, 2015, 12:03:04 pm
But there is just something special about being able to toss a single smoke grenade and getting a personal fireworks show with the occasional flying ragdolling corpse courtesy of Slog Fortress, the Starlight Drive in hovercastle or Hangman alley barracks.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 16, 2015, 12:12:37 pm
Post by: BFEL on December 17, 2015, 12:07:00 am
All settlements connected to a supply line share crafting materials with each other, yes, and they don't need to be directly connected to every other place.I meant how do you get them to share like, water and food? In the settlement resource sense, not the inventory sense.
(except the flare gun's range is three grid squares, while the artillery's is four).Thank you, this will be helpful to my "always have artillery available" efforts.
Post by: Reudh on December 17, 2015, 12:15:26 am
All settlements connected to a supply line share crafting materials with each other, yes, and they don't need to be directly connected to every other place.I meant how do you get them to share like, water and food? In the settlement resource sense, not the inventory sense.(except the flare gun's range is three grid squares, while the artillery's is four).Thank you, this will be helpful to my "always have artillery available" efforts.
Supply lines share overflow water and food from one connected settlement to the next. It's how you're able to have settlements in areas with zero water access or food access. In my case, Sanctuary is a massive 20 person farm with industrial water purifiers running. They provide massive amounts of food - i think i have 65-70 food and maybe 165 water at Sanctuary.
Outpost Zimonja is set up similarly, but are almost exclusively scavenging. Ten people, one is a provisioner, and the other nine all work scavenger stations.
Post by: BFEL on December 17, 2015, 12:21:54 am
I just saw a random event where two Deathclaws are fighting each other.
That is all
Post by: Mech#4 on December 17, 2015, 01:51:53 am
Post by: BFEL on December 17, 2015, 03:12:40 am
I just remembered from my playing; Has anyone else had Deathclaws exploding on death from simple pistol rounds or similar? It seems a bit excessive and I don't even have the "Bloody Mess" perk.FUCKING PSYCHIC BASTARD.
This literally happened to me the first time right after the above events.
Post by: Mech#4 on December 17, 2015, 03:26:47 am
I just remembered from my playing; Has anyone else had Deathclaws exploding on death from simple pistol rounds or similar? It seems a bit excessive and I don't even have the "Bloody Mess" perk.FUCKING PSYCHIC BASTARD.
This literally happened to me the first time right after the above events.
I just remembered from my playing; Has anyone else had dosh turn up on their doorstep from simple requests or similar? It seems a bit excessive and I don't even have the "Would You Kindly?" perk.
Seriously though. I like having them explode into giblets but I don't think I've even seen a basic bandit explode so much. Do they even do that as much as they did in Fallout 3?
Post by: Flying Dice on December 17, 2015, 03:27:51 am
Post by: scriver on December 17, 2015, 04:27:32 am
Post by: Reudh on December 17, 2015, 08:19:45 am
I just remembered from my playing; Has anyone else had Deathclaws exploding on death from simple pistol rounds or similar? It seems a bit excessive and I don't even have the "Bloody Mess" perk.FUCKING PSYCHIC BASTARD.
This literally happened to me the first time right after the above events.
I just remembered from my playing; Has anyone else had dosh turn up on their doorstep from simple requests or similar? It seems a bit excessive and I don't even have the "Would You Kindly?" perk.
Seriously though. I like having them explode into giblets but I don't think I've even seen a basic bandit explode so much. Do they even do that as much as they did in Fallout 3?
It's limb damage. If an enemy takes a shot that would cripple a limb but instead kills them, it will sever or break that limb.
Post by: BFEL on December 17, 2015, 08:29:32 am
I need this in my life.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 17, 2015, 08:31:25 am
Post by: Kot on December 17, 2015, 08:37:16 am
"healing nuke."I lost my ability to even.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 17, 2015, 08:48:06 am
Post by: Mech#4 on December 17, 2015, 08:52:20 am
It's limb damage. If an enemy takes a shot that would cripple a limb but instead kills them, it will sever or break that limb.
If it is limb damage than it might be destroying all limbs rather than the one crippled, as I'm pretty sure there's been either no or very little of the Deathclaw left after this has happened to me.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 17, 2015, 09:02:54 am
Please please please let it convert humans to ghouls."healing nuke."I lost my ability to even.
Post by: Greenbane on December 17, 2015, 09:35:48 am
Please please please let it convert humans to ghouls."healing nuke."I lost my ability to even.
Considering it's the opposite of a nuke, potentially with "anti-radiation", it'd convert ghouls back to humans. :P
Post by: BFEL on December 17, 2015, 09:59:09 pm
There is no "anti-radiation" it's either a different FORM of radiation, or it somehow sucks all radiation out of the surroundings...which would probably include light so it would be a darkness bomb as well.Please please please let it convert humans to ghouls."healing nuke."I lost my ability to even.
Considering it's the opposite of a nuke, potentially with "anti-radiation", it'd convert ghouls back to humans. :P
Post by: Mech#4 on December 17, 2015, 10:29:10 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on December 17, 2015, 10:59:02 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on December 18, 2015, 02:33:41 am
They have 8GB RAM (more than me) so it isn't that. Verified the game files and updated video drivers.
Hoping that someone else has encountered this and may have advice. I had infinite-loading "soft" crashes in NV, but this is every time on startup.
Also tried launching the game as admin, and also launching Steam as admin, no luck.
Unrelated, but I just met the Railroad and...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 18, 2015, 02:43:38 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: AoshimaMichio on December 18, 2015, 02:57:22 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Is it even possible to ask the Institute guys why they are making copies of people and killing originals? And why they did experiment with FEV? Seriously, why would they even have any of it? Does everybody have FEV stored in their pockets?
Post by: Rolan7 on December 18, 2015, 03:09:19 am
Sounds kinda like the
Spoiler: BoS missing supplies sidequest (click to show/hide)
By the way, the third and second tiers of the pacification perks should really be switched. The progression should be:
1) Stop attacking me!
2) Okay, now let me loot you.
3) Kill your friends!
It should also give at *least* partial XP credit, too. I'm already hard-pressed to justify walking instead of fast traveling, the last thing I need is for my 10-CHA ability to rob me of XP AND LOOT
I've kinda given in and started murdering people after they surrender, occasionally, depending on mood (mostly animals/super mutants). The game mechanics strongly encourage it (loot AND XP, no penalty whatsoever). And again, stealing from a surrendered person makes Nick complain. Murder them in cold blood, he doesn't break a sweat. Not that it's an option.
Post by: TheDarkStar on December 18, 2015, 07:00:41 am
Is it even possible to ask the Institute guys why they are making copies of people and killing originals? And why they did experiment with FEV? Seriously, why would they even have any of it? Does everybody have FEV stored in their pockets?
Actually yes - basically everyone on the planet is infected with some form of FEV iirc.
Post by: Krevsin on December 18, 2015, 08:06:29 am
Isn't that why the Enclave was so hell-bent on the whole human purity thing?Is it even possible to ask the Institute guys why they are making copies of people and killing originals? And why they did experiment with FEV? Seriously, why would they even have any of it? Does everybody have FEV stored in their pockets?
Actually yes - basically everyone on the planet is infected with some form of FEV iirc.
Post by: Teneb on December 18, 2015, 08:20:39 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Neonivek on December 18, 2015, 08:34:28 am
Though in Fallout 4 it seems like everyone had a Fatman....
THEN AGAIN this area was the area where the Fatman repository was... so if any play is going to have a metric ton of them it is here.
Post by: BFEL on December 18, 2015, 08:38:08 am
Post by: Grim Portent on December 18, 2015, 08:38:46 am
Found that during the start of the game, if you go straight to the tv after making your character you can see an ad for the Fat Man.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
'Well hello there Timmy! What's that you got there?'
'It's my Fat Man mister!'
'What's it for? Does it help you throw baseballs further?'
'No mister, it helps me blow up communist invaders!'
'Ahahaha, Timmy you rambunctious patriotic scamp.'
BUY FAT MEN TO PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN FROM THE RED MENACE! ONLY NUCLEAR BOMBS CAN SLAY THE CHINESE! PRAISE DEMOCRACY OR DIE!
Post by: Krevsin on December 18, 2015, 08:49:50 am
Hey, anyone know the story behind that maze in Fallons Department Store's parking deck? I just discovered it by accident and its fascinating and is there a quest connected to it or something?None that I could find, but I found it a very cool little side thing.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: MarcAFK on December 18, 2015, 08:50:54 am
Post by: BFEL on December 18, 2015, 09:24:03 am
HA! I got the mini nuke and fusion cores flawlessly on the first try.Hey, anyone know the story behind that maze in Fallons Department Store's parking deck? I just discovered it by accident and its fascinating and is there a quest connected to it or something?None that I could find, but I found it a very cool little side thing.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In other news, am I the only one who really REALLY likes Travis (Diamond City Radio host) better while he's spineless? On the radio I mean. After THREEEEEEE DAWWWWWWG and Mr. New Vegas I feel having a total ditz as the host to be refreshing and also ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS.
Favorite has to be when he's introducing Magnolia's "Train Train" and then immediately regrets it :P
That's also gotta be my fav song in this now.
Post by: Teneb on December 18, 2015, 09:28:31 am
The ad itself is a pair of kids "fighting", then one of them vanishes in a puff of smoke as the fatman appears in the hands of the other, resulting in that screenshot.Found that during the start of the game, if you go straight to the tv after making your character you can see an ad for the Fat Man.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
'Well hello there Timmy! What's that you got there?'
'It's my Fat Man mister!'
'What's it for? Does it help you throw baseballs further?'
'No mister, it helps me blow up communist invaders!'
'Ahahaha, Timmy you rambunctious patriotic scamp.'
BUY FAT MEN TO PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN FROM THE RED MENACE! ONLY NUCLEAR BOMBS CAN SLAY THE CHINESE! PRAISE DEMOCRACY OR DIE!
Post by: miauw62 on December 18, 2015, 09:39:33 am
Yeah, I absolutely love the radio host.HA! I got the mini nuke and fusion cores flawlessly on the first try.Hey, anyone know the story behind that maze in Fallons Department Store's parking deck? I just discovered it by accident and its fascinating and is there a quest connected to it or something?None that I could find, but I found it a very cool little side thing.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In other news, am I the only one who really REALLY likes Travis (Diamond City Radio host) better while he's spineless? On the radio I mean. After THREEEEEEE DAWWWWWWG and Mr. New Vegas I feel having a total ditz as the host to be refreshing and also ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS.
Favorite has to be when he's introducing Magnolia's "Train Train" and then immediately regrets it :P
That's also gotta be my fav song in this now.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 18, 2015, 09:51:56 am
The environmental themes are exactly what I wanted, alternating between creepy and forlorn wailing. The land feels haunted, like it should (to the sole survivor or a vault dweller anyway, I understand why the Courier was more chipper). And the BoS theme... <3
IDK using the radio feels like turning off the music in newXCOM or FTL. Combat feels less impactful listening to yet another repeat of Bongo In The Jungle (and I got my fill of *that* in FO3). I do like Travis though. Wish there was a news-only intermittent broadcast.
Post by: Greiger on December 18, 2015, 10:07:08 am
...preferably the first one, because even with the music in between, the constant 'nothing to report' gets on my nerves. There's 2 things I use radio freedom for. A way to know the ingame time without having to bring up the pip boy constantly, and knowing if I just wasted an artillery smoke.
Post by: Reudh on December 18, 2015, 12:05:24 pm
Finishing on Institute's side and reactions from Nick:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Is it even possible to ask the Institute guys why they are making copies of people and killing originals? And why they did experiment with FEV? Seriously, why would they even have any of it? Does everybody have FEV stored in their pockets?
1: Nick does actually comment on it. He's not pleased at all, and while he's not pro-Railroad he quite dislikes the Institute. I had both him and Piper tell me off for siding with the institute.
2. No, it's not explained why the Institute copy people. Presumably it's for intel gathering purposes, or controlling a population remotely, as seen with
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
3. The Institute is the remains of a high-end university. It is likely that MIT had some distant hand in creating or at least researching the FEV.
Post by: Grim Portent on December 18, 2015, 01:16:03 pm
Post by: BigD145 on December 18, 2015, 01:25:16 pm
Found that during the start of the game, if you go straight to the tv after making your character you can see an ad for the Fat Man.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You'll shoot your eye out, kid.
Post by: Grim Portent on December 18, 2015, 01:52:51 pm
You can't make 10mm rifles or alien blaster rifles.
Is it really that hard to attach a stock to them instead of a pistol grip?
Post by: Neonivek on December 18, 2015, 01:54:52 pm
Y'know what bugs me about weapon mods?
You can't make 10mm rifles or alien blaster rifles.
Is it really that hard to attach a stock to them instead of a pistol grip?
You know there is more to a rifle then just attaching a stock right?
Ohh wait I forgot :P that is the only difference in Fallout 4 :P
Post by: Rolan7 on December 18, 2015, 02:05:49 pm
Post by: AlleeCat on December 18, 2015, 02:14:48 pm
And then when I actually entered the room while nobody was there, the lights came on for no reason? I always thought Kellogg was the one making the lights come on, but I guess not.
Post by: Grim Portent on December 18, 2015, 02:24:00 pm
I'm really not sure what the real world differences are. I do think it's funny that the pipe "rifles" probably aren't rifled though.
Mostly it's to do with caliber sizes, placement of grips and barrel type as I understand it.
FO4 simplifies it down to recoil compensation and VATS usage based on the stock of the gun.
Mostly what bugs me about it is that it would be fairly easy (I assume) to attach a stock to a 10mm auto in order to dampen the recoil more than a pistol grip can, but you can't do it.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 18, 2015, 02:30:48 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 18, 2015, 02:51:22 pm
And that would basically be a SMG, right? Like an MP5.
Well technically a 10mm auto is a submachine gun already.
A Submachine gun is simply a Machine Gun that uses pistol ammo (ok, and a few other requirements... but still)
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 18, 2015, 05:26:33 pm
There is no "anti-radiation" it's either a different FORM of radiation, or it somehow sucks all radiation out of the surroundings...which would probably include light so it would be a darkness bomb as well.well technically (in theory) the radiation could consist of antiparticles but that wouldn't heal you. You'd just die because antimatter boom
Post by: scriver on December 18, 2015, 05:40:44 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on December 18, 2015, 06:05:47 pm
Shotgun was definitely my anti-boss gun, since it's good for bursts (then running back into cover). Kinda like my shiny +25% damage 6-crank laser musket, heehee. I should put a scatter on it instead of this scope, I'm not having any luck with sniping. I bet I could have one-shot the courser that way.
Post by: majikero on December 18, 2015, 07:43:30 pm
Post by: Greenbane on December 18, 2015, 08:05:37 pm
Do Laser Muskets deal more damage than standard Laser Rifles, to compensate for the bothersome cranking? I haven't been able to find any laser competition to Danse's almost fully upgraded Righteous Authority on a per-shot basis.
Post by: Grim Portent on December 18, 2015, 08:15:48 pm
The Last Minute ends any significant problem with ease.
Do Laser Muskets deal more damage than standard Laser Rifles, to compensate for the bothersome cranking? I haven't been able to find any laser competition to Danse's almost fully upgraded Righteous Authority on a per-shot basis.
The base damage isn't any better, but the crank multiplier is pretty beasty. A six crank musket deals 6xbase damage with a fully cranked shot which is then multiplied by any relevant modifiers like criticals or sneak attacking. A sneak attack from a fully upgraded musket nukes most non-giant enemies.
Post by: majikero on December 18, 2015, 09:11:08 pm
Post by: Teneb on December 18, 2015, 09:17:58 pm
Or the soonest you take the Castle.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Greiger on December 18, 2015, 09:23:50 pm
I wish I could of said something along the lines of 'You know I can still see you, right?' during the fight. But I suppose the inch and a half long bullets entering his braincase said that well enough.
Post by: Greenbane on December 19, 2015, 09:23:55 am
Post by: Grim Portent on December 19, 2015, 10:09:46 am
Guys, at one point you have to choose a faction to help you. Are there any negative consequences with the factions you didn't pick? Am I locked out of their quests or something?
Not if it's the quest I'm thinking of. I think it can lock you out of 1 mission, but even then I'm not sure if it does.
The quests that determine your final faction loyalty don't happen until a bit later, any factions you oppose become full time enemies.
Post by: Greenbane on December 19, 2015, 10:19:26 am
Guys, at one point you have to choose a faction to help you. Are there any negative consequences with the factions you didn't pick? Am I locked out of their quests or something?
Not if it's the quest I'm thinking of. I think it can lock you out of 1 mission, but even then I'm not sure if it does.
The quests that determine your final faction loyalty don't happen until a bit later, any factions you oppose become full time enemies.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: TheDarkStar on December 19, 2015, 10:22:55 am
Guys, at one point you have to choose a faction to help you. Are there any negative consequences with the factions you didn't pick? Am I locked out of their quests or something?
Not if it's the quest I'm thinking of. I think it can lock you out of 1 mission, but even then I'm not sure if it does.
The quests that determine your final faction loyalty don't happen until a bit later, any factions you oppose become full time enemies.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: TheDarkStar on December 19, 2015, 01:21:47 pm
Also, X-01 armor with Hot Rod paint and glowing blue eyes looks awesome.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 19, 2015, 03:27:32 pm
Guys, at one point you have to choose a faction to help you. Are there any negative consequences with the factions you didn't pick? Am I locked out of their quests or something?
Not if it's the quest I'm thinking of. I think it can lock you out of 1 mission, but even then I'm not sure if it does.
The quests that determine your final faction loyalty don't happen until a bit later, any factions you oppose become full time enemies.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
IIRC all the missions which lock you out of other factions explicitly tell you so in a popup.
Post by: AlleeCat on December 19, 2015, 05:36:46 pm
IIRC all the missions which lock you out of other factions explicitly tell you so in a popup.This. It'll pretty much tell you "Doing X will permanently make you an enemy of Y."
Post by: BFEL on December 20, 2015, 02:07:17 am
I'm traveling with Preston, and sometimes people give him ammo and shit when he talks to them.
Except EVERY TIME THIS HAPPENS, he strips naked.
Post by: NRDL on December 20, 2015, 02:55:38 am
Hilarious bug time again.
I'm traveling with Preston, and sometimes people give him ammo and shit when he talks to them.
Except EVERY TIME THIS HAPPENS, he strips naked.
Does his personal quest involve delving into his past as an exotic dancer?
Post by: Neonivek on December 20, 2015, 04:12:51 am
Hilarious bug time again.
I'm traveling with Preston, and sometimes people give him ammo and shit when he talks to them.
Except EVERY TIME THIS HAPPENS, he strips naked.
It isn't EXACTLY a bug... It is the intended behavior :P
Post by: dv on December 20, 2015, 04:22:53 am
IIRC all the missions which lock you out of other factions explicitly tell you so in a popup.I think it only tells you in one specific case, but there are other ways to make enemies or get locked out of faction quests.
Post by: TheDarkStar on December 20, 2015, 08:36:54 am
Hilarious bug time again.
I'm traveling with Preston, and sometimes people give him ammo and shit when he talks to them.
Except EVERY TIME THIS HAPPENS, he strips naked.
It's better than the time that I had Nick bug - he got stuck lying down and so he couldn't walk. The silly part was that he would still turn towards me and teleport when I wasn't looking.
Post by: cerapa on December 20, 2015, 10:22:53 am
Hilarious bug time again.
I'm traveling with Preston, and sometimes people give him ammo and shit when he talks to them.
Except EVERY TIME THIS HAPPENS, he strips naked.
It's better than the time that I had Nick bug - he got stuck lying down and so he couldn't walk. The silly part was that he would still turn towards me and teleport when I wasn't looking.
I had that happen during his quest, so he was having a conversation with the dude through a wall.
Post by: Mattk50 on December 20, 2015, 11:57:15 am
Early power armor isn't that good though, and it's not like you don't use most of your ammo on the bandits and deathclaw.
Part of the problem with fo4 is the lack of weapon condition. If they gave you a nearly broken minigun that would have been one thing, but instead its honestly trivial to keep enough ammo to keep using it. At the same time, the fo4 minigun is pretty lackluster as a result.
Weapon condition is also a great way to make picking up every weapon in the wastes worthwhile, and to act as a value sink. fo4 killed weapon condition but didnt really fix the problems that weapon condition was originally implemented to solve.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 20, 2015, 12:13:59 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on December 20, 2015, 12:38:41 pm
You mean make picking up one goddamn weapon out of every thirty or so because of overly restrictive repair mechanics. Weapon and armor condition in RPGs exist solely as a shitty mechanic to drain player resources because the developers couldn't figure out how to limit them except by making everything a useless poorly maintained lump of scrap that breaks after an hour of regular use.
Post by: Krevsin on December 20, 2015, 12:47:39 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on December 20, 2015, 01:03:23 pm
Weapon degradation uses up loot in the field (FO3). Getting loot is great, having to carry it places to sell sucks. This is kinda like sending companions off to sell loot, except more appropriate for a wasteland setting.
Then in NV it's the only late-game money sink. So you've got the hyperbreeder Alpha, game over, you never have to switch weapons again? This gives a moderate cost to its use, so there's some actual choice still... and a reason to to keep looting/stealing caps, or crafting weapon repair kits. Kinda like the fusion cores and power armor damage, except better in my opinion.
The best part was that there were multiple options to deal with it. Carry backup weapons, prioritize Repair skill, craft weapon repair kits, and/or make enough caps to pay the exorbitant repair fees.
When it comes to weapons, FO4 just has scarcity of ammo. Except it's... not scarce, at all, and it's pretty cheap. I don't even have the ammo scrounger perk. Pretty much a step backward in terms of interesting choice.
Actually, yeah, this new perk system was fun at first but it's exactly the dumbing-down everyone was afraid of. I already ranted about how most of them don't matter. They barely change the gameplay at all, and when they do (Intimidation perks, Lifegiver 3) they're still incredibly disappointing or nigh-broken (No XP, no loot, murder is okay but stealing is not). Just level up your weapon class perk (restricting choice!) and learn how to pick locks and hack (when the level cap LETS you). Get the crafting ones if you want... Or just buy the mods from shops. It's not like there's anything else to spend late-game caps on!
The only good thing they did SPECIAL-wise was remove the arbitrary stat caps at 10, so that drugs don't mysteriously stop working if you're too good at a thing. Though managing clothing is hilariously terrible (mostly because you can't mark items without assigning them a hotkey. Why... would I assign a hotkey... to CLOTHING!? I just want to keep track of it to switch back into it!)
Liking the story though, finally got to the Institute. Wow.
Weapon condition basically compounded me to pick up every single piece of garbage gun I could find, so that I could repair them and sell them for mad profits.Yeah this is all I meant to say, whoops.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 20, 2015, 01:11:02 pm
Here, this gun has survived two hundred years of weathering and use, but if you use it for more than ten minutes it will need to be totally rebuilt.
Hey enjoy this pristine laser rifle that you found in a sealed bunker, if you carefully mange your use, it might survive a single extended battle.
Yo, have this cherry PA, it serves our brothers in the field perfectly, but after 2-3 fights with SM you'll need to scrap fifteen of them to get it back in working order.
I'm not entirely happy with the design decisions made in F4, and I hate the writing, but Bethesda sure as hell made the right call in removing weapon condition.
Post by: PTTG?? on December 20, 2015, 01:19:24 pm
What would have helped it is if scrap items could be used to fix stuff too- things like using conductor blocks to repair energy weapons or scrap metal to patch up an assault rifle.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 20, 2015, 01:23:14 pm
It made the world into a zero-sum game of gradual decay... perfect for a post apocalypse.
This does not, has never had, and should not ever have anything to do with Fallout. Fallout is not a survival series of games. It is a series of post apocalyptic adventures where you, the ____ hero step forth from obscurity and save the world.
Post by: scriver on December 20, 2015, 01:27:08 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on December 20, 2015, 01:33:54 pm
Weapon condition is a mind-numbingly stupid immersion-breaker that should be removed from everything that has ever used it at all period.Well, gotta balance gameplay and realism to some extent. Immersion and fun.
Here, this gun has survived two hundred years of weathering and use, but if you use it for more than ten minutes it will need to be totally rebuilt.
Hey enjoy this pristine laser rifle that you found in a sealed bunker, if you carefully mange your use, it might survive a single extended battle.
Yo, have this cherry PA, it serves our brothers in the field perfectly, but after 2-3 fights with SM you'll need to scrap fifteen of them to get it back in working order.
I'm not entirely happy with the design decisions made in F4, and I hate the writing, but Bethesda sure as hell made the right call in removing weapon condition.
... Except that realism is *on the side of weapons requiring maintenance*. Particularly in a desert (NV) but really anywhere. Unmaintained guns weren't "just fine" after those 200 years, they were falling apart from rust and dust. Repairing them with similarly ruined weapons doesn't make perfect sense, but it's a convenience thing (like pausing the fight to slam a dozen sandwiches and a stimpack).
Of course now we'd probably have to go to some weapon bench, because field maintenance is unheard of and they're so proud of Skyrim's crafting animations... They should let us carry folding tables in our bags of holding :P
You're also exaggerating the rate of weapon degradation a bit, there. I didn't really have any issue except with the hyperbreeder, due to its high rate of fire and effectiveness in every scenario (and lack of copies to scrap). I was even able to maintain it fine with weapon repair kits (maybe because I enjoy scavenging, so found decent amounts of wonderglue).
Er, yes it is. Or was. The wasteland was inhospitable, full of mutant creatures who'd drain your resources. Not just ammo and stimpacks but doctor's bags, first aid, antitoxin... There was even a "survival" skill to avoid such encounters. New Vegas sorta kinda almost brought that back with hardcore mode and more dangerous wasteland animals.It made the world into a zero-sum game of gradual decay... perfect for a post apocalypse.
This does not, has never had, and should not ever have anything to do with Fallout. Fallout is not a survival series of games. It is a series of post apocalyptic adventures where you, the ____ hero step forth from obscurity and save the world.
Aside, I'm not really a fan of Bethesda's overuse of not-zombies in FO3 and 4...
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 20, 2015, 01:33:55 pm
When no one else has to deal with their weapon suddenly jamming or breaking in the middle of combat (unless specifically targeted by the player) then it is non-immersive. When no one else ever has their armor break from continuous combat then it is non-immersive. When the entire point of the mechanic is to artificially limit the amount of money the player can amass, then it is non- immersive. Fallout and Fallout 2 handled this far better by just making the armor a non-drop item, the only reason that I can come up with that that mechanic was scrapped was for the same reason as above, it is non-immersive.
Survival mode in NV was a purely optional system. It has nothing to do with what I am discussing here. Further the 'survival' skill had nothing to do with what I am discussing either. Fallout is not a resource management game, excepting in the ways that all RPGs are, i.e. 'how many healing potions do I have'. For me at least the answer to that question is invariably 'far more than I could ever reasonably use.'
Post by: Rolan7 on December 20, 2015, 01:38:00 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 20, 2015, 01:42:09 pm
Fallout 2? You can be so well decked out by the time you get out of Gecko that you never have to worry about anything other than getting critted ever.
Edit: I will stop now, I have tried to make my point, and am starting to get too emotional. Sorry if I actually offended anyone.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 20, 2015, 01:45:00 pm
Post by: Krevsin on December 20, 2015, 01:53:46 pm
I have a T-51 (now upgraded all the way to f) and it has served me well in many firefights. I only ever remember losing all of my parts in protracted battles with multiple Gunners, but that stopped once I upgraded to T-51d. Now it takes a frontal hit from a mutant suicider or a mini nuke hit to really mess any parts up (They usually strip me of everything tho).
Oh and did I mention I have a jetpack? Because I totally have a jetpack and by Jove is it fun.
Actually, yeah, this new perk system was fun at first but it's exactly the dumbing-down everyone was afraid of. I already ranted about how most of them don't matter. They barely change the gameplay at all, and when they do (Intimidation perks, Lifegiver 3) they're still incredibly disappointing or nigh-broken (No XP, no loot, murder is okay but stealing is not). Just level up your weapon class perk (restricting choice!) and learn how to pick locks and hack (when the level cap LETS you). Get the crafting ones if you want... Or just buy the mods from shops. It's not like there's anything else to spend late-game caps on!The dumbing down I'm seeing isn't so much the fault of the perk system itself but in the fact that none of it is being utilized for anything besides of what it says on the tin. Also the dialogue can eat rotten mirelurk
Could solve a problem with a check based on medical/technical/scientific knowledge? Nah, we won't give you that option because you can only persuade people with charisma now.
Basically the perks feel less like a gradual expansion of your character's skill and knowledge and more like "You leveled? HERE'S A NIFTY THING."
It's not a problem with the systems themselves (except for the dialogue), but in the way they are used.
Post by: majikero on December 20, 2015, 02:59:43 pm
Post by: Greenbane on December 20, 2015, 04:46:25 pm
Post by: AoshimaMichio on December 20, 2015, 05:04:14 pm
Post by: MarcAFK on December 20, 2015, 06:06:15 pm
If all weapons had a varying reliability factor, which was affected by poor modifications, particularly rate of fire, and caliber that would be something integrated into the crafting system allowing better quality mods at higher skill.
All weapons are affected differently by insufficient lubrication, over heating, fouling form repeated firing, foreign contaminants usually environmental dust, water, rust etc.
All those variables are generally managed by not treating your gun like crap and frequent stripping and other maintenance. Is it over complex and not fun for a game? Good question. I don't thing guns should completely break but rather frequency of jams should go up. Each gun should have it's own unjamning animation, ease of unjamning and reliability has a major effect on what guns are suitable for taking into combat. A great strength of the AK family is the ease at which a jammed bolt can be slammed close, however a dirty reciever will jam continuously.
Most guns you find lieing around should need stripping and maintaining, raider guns should work fine but perhaps not reliably. Further I'll note that most modern guns can fire 1000 rounds before starting to foul or overheat, many are remarkably resistant to dust and even water.
Or cake.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=kIuni6_K_RQ
Post by: Jiokuy on December 20, 2015, 06:56:33 pm
Yeah, other than early game (basically until you hit the hub), Fallout has you nearly swimming in stimpacks, and poison becomes a non-issue once you can blast radscorpions in the brain reliably (around level 4-5.)
Fallout 2? You can be so well decked out by the time you get out of Gecko that you never have to worry about anything other than getting critted ever.
Edit: I will stop now, I have tried to make my point, and am starting to get too emotional. Sorry if I actually offended anyone.
You're a cool person, nothing personal ok.
I find these statements to be full of fallacies though. The execution of game (swimming in stimpacks), does not inform the intent of the designer (survival versus action versus adventure). I feel your stance on this is because weapon repair perhaps felt tedious to you. But none of reasons you listed in any of your posts are backed by logic. Your rant about non-immersive is just wrong. Immersion is the feeling of actually being in the game. Immersion is broken when the rules of the game and how they reflect reality are made apparent to the player. This requires an event, not the lack of one.
You argue enemy guns not jamming (when your own do), is a sign of non-immersion therefore all gun jamming should be removed. First enemies gun's not jamming it isn't obvious, it isn't something the typical player notices ever, because the player has limited knowledge of what enemies do. In general to break immersion requires a force to pop the immersions bubble, and enemy behavior isn't strong enough. (unless they really fuck up, companions pushing me into mines or standing in front of me as I try to sprint across the room in FO4, those were immersion breaking. Only an AI in a video game would do that). Second: You argue Gun jamming should be removed, but I feel that is tragically missing the point. The immersive action would be to add AI lines and actions where their gun jams or breaks, and they shout out to their allies about it.
Going back to execution versus intent because I got sidetracked there. I could make a game similar to amnesia the dark descent only replace the monsters and Imagry with chibi unicorns and rainbows. It would not be a very scarry game. But the core game-play values would remain the same. The intent was survival horror, the execution was fluffly, the result was a joke of a game (or a very good game if you're scared of poorly rendered chibi unicorns).
From my experience the intent of the early fallout games, was adventure rpg in a post-apocalyptic setting. You're completely right, it's not survival in the survival-horror sense of the word (counting bullets and hp packs). But the setting of a game, it's world. Settings speak, they emote to the player. As much as any NPC, a setting will tell the player a lot of information subtly. Making Ammo and Health scarce is a setting choice, not a core mechanic. What it says is, this world is low on resources living on scraps torn from the carcass of the pre-war world. They are by no means necessairy, but it tells the player about the world.
I loved making my own bullets in NV, it feels like something a survior in a post apoc world would do.
TL:DR you're right, mostly, I think survival elements improve the game, I think the game does need money sinks, but they don't have to be weapon maintenance (although it is not a terrible choice if it is handled a little better) Bethesda has not shown the best work in recent years though.
Post by: AlleeCat on December 20, 2015, 07:13:10 pm
I had a bug where Nick got into a suit of power armor on his own, which then disappeared. He ended up walking around with elongated arms and legs and I was down a power armor frame.Hilarious bug time again.
I'm traveling with Preston, and sometimes people give him ammo and shit when he talks to them.
Except EVERY TIME THIS HAPPENS, he strips naked.
It's better than the time that I had Nick bug - he got stuck lying down and so he couldn't walk. The silly part was that he would still turn towards me and teleport when I wasn't looking.
I had that happen during his quest, so he was having a conversation with the dude through a wall.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 20, 2015, 08:16:45 pm
snipped
While that is a well thought out post and you make a reasonable point, I'm not going to respond to it.
I am not calm or collected. If I drop a subject it is no one's interest to call me out on it, as I have decided to cool off and do not want to be drug back into a subject that is causing me to lose my very limited grip on civility.
I am not berating you, however, for your decision to comment. Just pointing out that I have issues and I would appreciate if in the future you would avoid hitting this particular button.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 20, 2015, 09:01:55 pm
It's almost if word "role" doesn't mean what it used to mean.Yeah, it's almost as if devs that make RPGs are making games in which the player controls a character whose skills and behaviors are abstracted as one or more of a number of roles. It's almost as if people are wearing cokebottle eyewear crafted from rose-tinted glass as an excuse to complain about things they don't like.
Seriously, this whole thing about "X isn't a real RPG" is literally just a No true Scotsmanning of design choices people don't like.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 20, 2015, 09:03:45 pm
I had a bug where Nick got into a suit of power armor on his own, which then disappeared. He ended up walking around with elongated arms and legs and I was down a power armor frame.Sounds totally worth it!
I accidentally placed a water pump such that I glitch through a wall if I use it. Good times.
And, not really a bug, but almost every time I report back to Preston he's inside a building. Sometimes he's asleep.
i like to whisper through the window
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=580227024
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=580240421 (dynamic camera understands this situation perfectly)
This
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=580229152
(it gets progressively worse until every model is spazzing over the entire screen seizure-style)
Here's a picture of my character before I met the BoS. A woman out of time, just trying to make her way in this strange new world of rebar and Ikea buildings.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=555875414
And after meeting the BoS, enjoying a life of pure leisure and un-rusty clothes:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=580230511
Later I am absolutely trustworthy, do I look like someone who could lie (ignore the gibs)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=580227919
Helping a boy scout with his mile swim:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=580231810
Then I met the true hero of the wasteland:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=580232748
Then I received 100% legit indisputable proof that Fallout Tactics is canon /s
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=580231143
So I might go back to playing that for a while, particularly due to holiday traveling.
Post by: BFEL on December 20, 2015, 10:28:11 pm
Thisglitchdaytripper withdrawal still keeps happening every hour or so but I just restart:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=580229152
(it gets progressively worse until every model is spazzing over the entire screen seizure-style)
HOLY SHIT ITS THE OLD CANDYLAND INVASION GLITCH.
I HAD THIS SHIT IN OBLIVION.
(this happened when my disk was scratched up, I have no idea how it happened here)
Post by: ThtblovesDF on December 21, 2015, 03:41:21 am
Sadly it suffers from the "everything kills each other or is killed me and sometimes i go and pickup a item" quests, with the usual outliars (cabot house was alright, it had at least one meaningful choice).
Post by: Grim Portent on December 21, 2015, 07:41:25 am
Seriously hate wasting a nearly full core because I forgot to equip a grenade.
Post by: Gabeux on December 21, 2015, 08:43:45 am
Post by: Telgin on December 21, 2015, 10:37:42 am
I'd really like to know which developer thought making a perk intended to extend fusion core lifespan also make you fart the things out like grenades was a good idea so I can walk up to them and just sigh at them for five minutes.
Seriously hate wasting a nearly full core because I forgot to equip a grenade.
That does seem almost bafflingly silly. I'm glad now that I kept forgetting to get that perk, partly because I finally have a lot of fusion cores.
I'm mostly glad I forgot the perk because I have a real problem with grenades in this game. Maybe it's just because I'm playing on the PC, but I have a bad habit of using grenades when I didn't mean to. Somewhere I got the impression that you could still melee things with grenades equipped if you didn't hold the key, and just tapped it. I molotoved quite a few radroaches before I gave up on that.
It also makes the ominous click of pulling a grenade's pin every time I have to tab out of the game (the grenade key is Alt on PCs, so Alt+Tab...). More than once I was afraid I'd accidentally grenaded an innocent NPC because Skype pinged me while I was playing... but so far that hasn't actually happened. No grenade is hurled when I tab back in.
Post by: MarcAFK on December 21, 2015, 02:13:54 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on December 21, 2015, 02:22:14 pm
I'm mostly glad I forgot the perk because I have a real problem with grenades in this game. Maybe it's just because I'm playing on the PC, but I have a bad habit of using grenades when I didn't mean to. Somewhere I got the impression that you could still melee things with grenades equipped if you didn't hold the key, and just tapped it. I molotoved quite a few radroaches before I gave up on that.
It also makes the ominous click of pulling a grenade's pin every time I have to tab out of the game (the grenade key is Alt on PCs, so Alt+Tab...). More than once I was afraid I'd accidentally grenaded an innocent NPC because Skype pinged me while I was playing... but so far that hasn't actually happened. No grenade is hurled when I tab back in.
On consoles (PS4 anyway) you power attack with a tap of R1 and throw grenades by holding it until you hear the pin click and I can confirm it works as intended, on PC controls might be more sensitive or something.
Can't you change the hotkeys for grenades/power attacks from alt to something else?
Post by: MarcAFK on December 21, 2015, 03:23:13 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on December 21, 2015, 03:41:39 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on December 21, 2015, 03:54:14 pm
Maybe change your keyboard key repeat settings.Yeah maybe this? I'm on PC and can still bash fine.
Pretty annoyed that grenades can't be used in VATS though. Particularly since it sounds like they were usable, by arming the grenade before entering VATS, but that was "fixed".
Post by: Greiger on December 21, 2015, 04:05:36 pm
On topic,
I swam out from the castle to a little floating platform I saw and wanted to loot, and then found an island and decided to keep swimming out there. It seems the entire island is one big huge massive settlement. So big that if I try to pick up and carry a cooking station from one side of the place to another it actually unloads and disappears while I'm carrying it. This place is Xbox huge.
Unfortunately however I sent a bunch of bed-less settlers from other settlements across my country and it seems like none of them have actually shown up on the island. I'd like to at least get a supply line out there so I can start building for real (though the local supplies trees alone were enough for me to make a 5 story tall apartment building) but noone has shown up for a few days now.
Is there something special I need to do to get people showing up here? Now that I think about it there isn't exactly a walking route...
Post by: Flying Dice on December 21, 2015, 04:49:42 pm
Uh... how? In the PC keybindings menu, it literally has one option for "Bash/Power Attack/Grenade".Maybe change your keyboard key repeat settings.Yeah maybe this? I'm on PC and can still bash fine.
Pretty annoyed that grenades can't be used in VATS though. Particularly since it sounds like they were usable, by arming the grenade before entering VATS, but that was "fixed".
Wha-- you're right? o.0
I could have sworn... I don't even fucking know then, it's been a couple weeks, but I distinctly remember not having any trouble with grenade/melee mixups. As in, I've never had a situation where I threw a grenade when I was trying to pistolwhip something, nor smacked air when trying to throw a grenade.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 21, 2015, 04:53:58 pm
I only looked it up amusingly late into the game, since manually throwing grenades kinda sucked in 3. I'm sure getting the throwing-arc from the demolitionist perk would help though.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 21, 2015, 04:56:01 pm
Post by: Reudh on December 21, 2015, 08:32:32 pm
Probably a little late on this but that video of a gun full of twinkie made me giggle.
On topic,
I swam out from the castle to a little floating platform I saw and wanted to loot, and then found an island and decided to keep swimming out there. It seems the entire island is one big huge massive settlement. So big that if I try to pick up and carry a cooking station from one side of the place to another it actually unloads and disappears while I'm carrying it. This place is Xbox huge.
Unfortunately however I sent a bunch of bed-less settlers from other settlements across my country and it seems like none of them have actually shown up on the island. I'd like to at least get a supply line out there so I can start building for real (though the local supplies trees alone were enough for me to make a 5 story tall apartment building) but noone has shown up for a few days now.
Is there something special I need to do to get people showing up here? Now that I think about it there isn't exactly a walking route...
Generator -> Settlement Radio Beacon.
Switch the beacon on, and your radio will pick up a broadcast of your character umming and ahhing about a new settlement. Eventually, settlers will come to that settlement (up to a maximum of 10+CHR i think)
Post by: Greiger on December 21, 2015, 08:53:24 pm
Welcome to Sunshine Tidings co-op one of the many fine settlements in Greiger country!
Enjoy the safety of 10 foot metal walls topped with rocket turrets with iffy IFF functionality!
Enjoy the wonderful sound and fireworks of the daily supermutant raid being deconstructed outside the northeast wall!
Enjoy the scattered ghoul and settler corpses that randomly reappear! Sometimes levitating in the air as if propped on top of a non existent table!
Enjoy the grueling manual labor from supplying 40% of the entire nation's supply of corn and mutfruit!
Sleep in style in the patented superdorms! 20 beds somehow crammed into a single room!
Be lulled to sleep by the comforting hum of the massive power generators on the floor right below!
Enjoy the common room! Featuring a radio! And a chair!
Light bulbs! Some of them even have power!
Payment fee due upon arrival of all your clothes, all your bottlecaps, food and bobbypins and any (useful) ammo you have on hand!
Sunshine tidings co-op. The settlement of the future!
Post by: MarcAFK on December 22, 2015, 12:43:52 am
Post by: BFEL on December 22, 2015, 06:44:56 am
I'm sure getting the throwing-arc from the demolitionist perk would help though.It USUALLY helps, except when it randomly decides to indicate your arc superimposed a foot to the left of where it actually is/will be. This caused at least one "Molotov in the face" situation while I was popping out from cover.
Though as someone using a controller, I end up with quite a few of those anyway because I meant to melee.
In other "buttons that don't know what you want to do with them" news, since the default controller keybinds were FUCKING RETARDED, I changed some things around and now my "open workshop" button is the same as my "change 1st/3rd person" button. Which works pretty well, until I want to zoom out/in for 3rd person vanity at which point it opens the workshop and zooms me ALL THE WAY IN. Which is annoying as hell, but definitely better then whatever the default shit woulda been.
Though one thing I'll mention they got right was making you keep sprinting even if you let go of the button. Which is REALLY nice, since the controller I use has a mostly-broken left bumper.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 22, 2015, 08:21:56 am
Post by: Glloyd on December 22, 2015, 12:34:20 pm
Holding the perspective button opens the build interface in vanilla keyboard mode too. You simply can't scroll around your character when you're safe at base. Another bit of button reuse for consoles which (probably) can't be fixed without mods.
Fuck, that's the most annoying one imo. I keep all my armour and stuff at Sanctuary, so when I try to see how a new piece of armour looks it just opens up the build menu.
Post by: BFEL on December 22, 2015, 12:45:28 pm
Post by: Sirbug on December 22, 2015, 01:53:56 pm
Really reminds me my more unfortunate plannings of Dwarf Fortress.
Is it possible to have doors inside the house? It seems like I can't set up walls and even if I could, floor doesn't stick to them properly.
Post by: BigD145 on December 22, 2015, 02:28:00 pm
Interior rooms aren't big enough to make a room in a room, built doorframe/door and all.
Post by: Telgin on December 22, 2015, 03:23:21 pm
Interior walls are a pain in the butt to place too. I think, but am not certain, that there's a way to disable snapping so that they don't snap to each other in ways you didn't intend, but it's still extremely difficult to get them to line up in aesthetically pleasing ways.
I like the settlement system overall, but it feels like something that Bethesda left to the modding community to really flesh out. It's a lot more shallow than I was hoping for.
Post by: Greiger on December 22, 2015, 04:07:57 pm
There is also apparently an exploit involving the hold E to select everything attached where only the thing you had targeted checks for collision. Allowing you to say, make a fence post, attach a fence to it, and place a doorframe so that it's touching the fence. Then you hold e to grab the fencepost and it will grab everything attached. Allowing you to move the doorframe where you please because only the fencepost will check for vertical collision.
You should be able to search fallout 4 interior door to get some videos of how that works. You can also use that to ignore collision on other things too. I saw a video of someone building a treehouse in the big tree in sanctuary using that trick.
Post by: Grim Portent on December 22, 2015, 04:43:58 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 22, 2015, 06:35:36 pm
Must admit I haven't seen any flamers yet.
Post by: Krevsin on December 22, 2015, 06:53:46 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on December 22, 2015, 06:57:25 pm
Shot most of the Gunners with the flamer till their legs gave out then cut them down with the shishkebab. Crippled Clint's legs then casually strolled behind him and popped his Fusion Core and watched it go nuclear. I took a surprising number of mini-nukes to the face during the fight from the named asshole on the church roof, but all they really did was kill Gunners and piss me off.
Post by: Telgin on December 22, 2015, 07:06:04 pm
The sodding Forged, right north of Finch Farm have a bunch. They are a nuisance.
Indeed. I wasted a lot of ammo before I realized that for once I had a reason to shoot someone in the legs. The guys with flamers at least don't wear much, if any, leg armor. Frag mines worked wonders too.
Speaking of mines, while I've had issues with grenades and mines in general (see my last few posts), I do use them a lot more than I ever did in FO3 or NV. I should use them even more than I do though, since I have something like 15 frag versions of each in my inventory, not to mention half a dozen each of cryo, plasma and pulse grenades and mines. No wonder I'm so overloaded all of the time.
Post by: TheDarkStar on December 22, 2015, 07:15:10 pm
The sodding Forged, right north of Finch Farm have a bunch. They are a nuisance.
Indeed. I wasted a lot of ammo before I realized that for once I had a reason to shoot someone in the legs. The guys with flamers at least don't wear much, if any, leg armor. Frag mines worked wonders too.
Speaking of mines, while I've had issues with grenades and mines in general (see my last few posts), I do use them a lot more than I ever did in FO3 or NV. I should use them even more than I do though, since I have something like 15 frag versions of each in my inventory, not to mention half a dozen each of cryo, plasma and pulse grenades and mines. No wonder I'm so overloaded all of the time.
I ended up selling a lot of my grenades and mines because I barely ever used them - if I really needed an explosive, a Fat Man or Missile Launcher works but is much more accurate.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 22, 2015, 07:30:47 pm
*two hours later*
"Okay, time to sell these twenty spare grenades to the shops, I guess I just couldn't use more killing things than I got from looting after all."
Post by: TheDarkStar on December 22, 2015, 07:36:16 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 22, 2015, 07:37:31 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on December 22, 2015, 07:58:59 pm
I find that I get so many stimpacks and radaway that I end up selling 25-50 at a shop every once in a while. Also, is Rad-X actually useful? There are already a bunch of things to increase radiation resistance and I never end up needing it.
Rad-X didn't seem to make much difference for me, but I was wearing power armor for the first time too. Wasn't sure how to read the meter (still not sure really, doesn't really matter though).
I never ever ever sell stimpacks though, they're weightless. Sometimes I buy more from shopkeepers in exchange for my loot, since they have so few caps. Yeah I'll never use them up, but they're a backup weightless cash supply (and in sufficient numbers make any fight trivial, except for mininukes).
In NV I used to carry around a lot of chems and pre-war money for the same reason. But now the pre-war money is what I make my settler's beds out of, and the chems are actually a weight concern so they get sold.
Oh and power cores are like stimpacks that way. "Fungible", I guess? A lot of heavy loot becomes weightless, useful, and theoretically worth a good price in a pinch. Such are the things a hoarder must do when faced with these pathetic 300-cap "traders".
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 23, 2015, 08:43:42 am
Due to over-reliance on the Radiant Quest system Bethesda is so proud of, F4 is boring.
It isn't the poor writing, it isn't the half-baked mechanics, it is the nearly fetishistic usage of the radiant system for everything, combined with a distinctive lack of variability in that system that is the game's ultimate failure.
The side quests are actually halfway decent (mechanically, the writing is still crap), the main quest, in spite of being an absolute hack job, is playable. But the incredibly limited variety and vast over-presence of Radiant quests just drags the whole game down abysmally.
I've put in 200 hours on my main save, and while I have yet to even bother completing many sidequests, the Radiant system has utterly burnt me out when it comes to basic gameplay. (I may just shoot Garvey the next time he tells me that the settlement I just resolved the problems of has more problems.)
Post by: Sirbug on December 23, 2015, 08:54:49 am
Then again, apparently there are people who think random encounters in Fallout 1 and 2 were a good idea, or hunger system outside survival simulators and roguelikes, so what do I know?
Post by: Neonivek on December 23, 2015, 08:58:59 am
Then again, apparently there are people who think random encounters in Fallout 1 and 2 were a good idea, or hunger system outside survival simulators and roguelikes, so what do I know?
Do not confuse bad execution with the idea itself being bad.
There are plenty of games that are neither a survival simulator nor a roguelike that does hunger well.
As well "random quests" could have worked but the way they are set up in the game is flawed.
Post by: Sirbug on December 23, 2015, 09:05:44 am
Then again, apparently there are people who think random encounters in Fallout 1 and 2 were a good idea, or hunger system outside survival simulators and roguelikes, so what do I know?
Do not confuse bad execution with the idea itself being bad.
There are plenty of games that are neither a survival simulator nor a roguelike that does hunger well.
As well "random quests" could have worked but the way they are set up in the game is flawed.
In my understanding of game design, there are two styles of gameplay. Routine and advancement. Routine revolves around repetition of tasks and often found in strategy games, simulators, or games where losing is fun. It prioritize resource management, constant pressure and loosely defined intermediate goals. Advancement is a style for most RPG or FPS games, where you always meant to move forward, unlocking new places to be, new toys to play, new mechanics and playmates.
Those two tend to mesh poorly. Routine elements stall the advancement, forcing to delay new quests and new explorations. Mixing those two things makes neither here-nor there hybrid.
I'm distress at the fact that AAA games are trying to be everything at once.
Post by: Neonivek on December 23, 2015, 09:23:42 am
Those two tend to mesh poorly. Routine elements stall the advancement, forcing to delay new quests and new explorations. Mixing those two things makes neither here-nor there hybrid.
I'm distress at the fact that AAA games are trying to be everything at once.
Well no, they don't mesh poorly... They mesh constantly and non-stop.
RPGs are a mesh between the two... In fact "Roguelikes" are a subgenre of RPGs
And as you said "Routine is roguelike" and "RPG is Advancement" and since a Roguelike is both :P
Post by: Telgin on December 23, 2015, 09:36:11 am
Okay, before anyone jumps down my throat, just hear me out. I have discovered what I believe to be F4's largest flaw.
Due to over-reliance on the Radiant Quest system Bethesda is so proud of, F4 is boring.
It isn't the poor writing, it isn't the half-baked mechanics, it is the nearly fetishistic usage of the radiant system for everything, combined with a distinctive lack of variability in that system that is the game's ultimate failure.
The side quests are actually halfway decent (mechanically, the writing is still crap), the main quest, in spite of being an absolute hack job, is playable. But the incredibly limited variety and vast over-presence of Radiant quests just drags the whole game down abysmally.
I've put in 200 hours on my main save, and while I have yet to even bother completing many sidequests, the Radiant system has utterly burnt me out when it comes to basic gameplay. (I may just shoot Garvey the next time he tells me that the settlement I just resolved the problems of has more problems.)
Honestly, I was beginning to think the same thing. The main quest is pretty short, and if you weren't being distracted by Preston giving you quests to go kill 10 ghouls or raiders every time you finished one, the game wouldn't last very long at all. It took me quite a while to realize that the Minutemen quests never ended.
At the same time, while these quests and other side quests do give some variety, I was getting kind of annoyed by being distracted by them. I continuously kept close to 10 quests in my Pipboy at a time, and it seemed like I couldn't finish something without another quest or two popping up. Or, more commonly, finding another landmark infested with super mutants or ghouls that I had to explore to find the not very useful legendary weapon inside of. I was kind of hoping for better pacing there, where you discovered a few more focused quests at a time as you followed the main quest.
Speaking of legendaries, the whole "Legendary Enemy" thing is kind of immersion breaking. I'm not saying that they turned Fallout 4 into an MMO, but it feels like they thought about it. Oh, look, random special enemies that are guaranteed rare drops, and who "mutate" halfway through the fight, whatever that means! The first time I saw that was with a super mutant, then a ghoul. Okay, those can mutate. But raiders? That felt a little strange.
I guess I have a lot of small gripes with the game, but the fact that it's monotonous and kind of boring is definitely a big thing I'd started to notice.
Post by: Sirbug on December 23, 2015, 09:43:40 am
I hope they rethink their direction by the next installment.
Post by: Neonivek on December 23, 2015, 09:44:32 am
At least it's not as bad as Skyrim in this aspect. TES already had weird MMO feel to it anyway.
I hope they rethink their direction by the next installment.
With its stunning success? Naw if anything they will intensify the badness.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 23, 2015, 09:47:41 am
Post by: Grim Portent on December 23, 2015, 10:19:52 am
Post by: Krevsin on December 23, 2015, 11:23:59 am
The radiant quests are annoying and tedious, but I get a lot of fun out of just wandering around, finding nifty locations and neat extras and easter eggs of which there are many, joining NPC battles between groups raiders/gunners/super mutants/ghouls/synths/wildilfe and BoS/Minutemen/Caravans/Provisioners for my settlements. Plus, the settlement building stuff is like heroin to me, just like it was in mods for NV and FO3. There's plenty of interesting locations, sidestories, encounters and sidequests to discover in the commonwealth. Plus the settlement building and upgrades means there's a reason to wandering around apart from the plain old "Wanna see more stuff".
So, I certainly wouldn't go so far as to call Fallout 4 boring. But it does feel empty in the sidequest variety department compared to NV and FO3, and I have more than a sneaking suspicion it's because of the sodding radiant quests which are boring, repetitive and don't feel like they achieve anything really.
Especially baffling and stupid are the Minutemen radiant quests. I am the goddamn general of the sodding Minutemen, I should be able to delegate them to my underlings. Does a settlement under my protection need assistance? Dispatch a squad of minutemen to it. Do I need to recapture a location? Dispatch a squad of minutemen. Settlement under attack? Squad of minutemen. I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to go and do all those things yourself if you want to (you boring person you), it'd just make more sense if you had the ability to send out a team to do them for you (and the ability to join them).
It'd be a much more interesting system IMO and it'd feel more like you're the actual commander of the Minutemen instead of just some errand boy with a fancy costume.
Similar thoughts on the Brotherhood and Railway radiant quests, although I kinda get the reason behind you being sent alone in the latter (since the Railway is understaffed because a Bad Thing happened recently and also they are really really incompetent).
In general, my thoughts on Fallout 4 are really divided. On the one hand, the game looks pretty, has a memorable visual design, the combat feels good, the settlement building and management is crack, weapon customization is fun, the world is vast and littered with neat locations and Easter eggs, the companions are so far all memorable and fun, there are interesting side quests to be had and the plot has some real peaks and is overall better than FO3 IMO.
On the other hand, Gunners still make no sense, radiant quests are annoying, repetitive and don't feel like they contribute anything besides being grind for the grind god, an annoyingly large percentage of quests is from the "go there, kill everything" school of quest design, the dialogue system is stupidly limited and vague for no goddamn reason whatsoever (even on consoles it'd work perfectly well to just have a dropdown menu of all responses), the perk system feels underutilized in dialogue and blank slate characters don't mix well with voiced protagonists.
Basically, it's a Bethesda game. Infinitely vexing in how it manages to both consume me utterly and piss me off to no end.
Post by: Jacob/Lee on December 23, 2015, 01:03:24 pm
My preferred ending is the one where the Minutemen purge the land of all the other factions and consolidate power under one Commonwealth. :P
Post by: Krevsin on December 23, 2015, 01:17:57 pm
I wonder if a mod could be made that made raiders and gunners stop spawning after you've cleared them out a couple times.
Post by: BFEL on December 23, 2015, 01:32:10 pm
Someone mentioned one that let you mod legendary effects like other components, which sounds pretty awesome. A link would be appreciated if anyone knows it.
Anything else good?
Post by: Krevsin on December 23, 2015, 01:38:09 pm
The only one I'm really using is craftable armor size (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/4550/?tab=2&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Ffallout4%2Fajax%2Fmodfiles%2F%3Fid%3D4550&pUp=1) and craftable ammunition (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/1018/?) (both of which should by all rights be part of the vanilla game IMO) along with the lite version of Full Dialogue Interface (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/1235/?) (because the proper version doesn't work properly).
I think I'm going to do a clean install once I'm done with this character.
Post by: Telgin on December 23, 2015, 02:26:18 pm
In particular... pretty much everything in the craftable armor size mod is spot on. Why can't you improve light armor to heavier armor if you can build turrets out of tin cans?
The thing that really kind of confuses me though, is how you can't craft weapons and armor from nothing. Shouldn't you be able to at least make pipe rifles? You can even craft each piece individually, including making entirely new receivers, but you just can't do it without having a gun already.
Post by: Greenbane on December 23, 2015, 02:58:08 pm
Official craftable ammo would trivialize ammo scrounging as well. It's already wholly unnecessary, as it's easy to procure thousands of bullets of most every calibre.
Crafting should really focus on improving gear, and it has already overflown into "morphing" weapons (i.e. pistols to rifles), which isn't a good move from a design standpoint.
And if you can build turrets out of tin cans, the solution isn't to make everything else buildable from tin cans, but rather to up the complexity of suitably complex construction to begin with (i.e. require a missile launcher for a goddamn missile turret).
Post by: Telgin on December 23, 2015, 03:05:07 pm
Being able to craft ammo does trivialize it, and I'm not so sure about it anyway. How realistic is it to make usable bullets for a modern weapon from junk? I'd guess nearly impossible without very specific tools. Having said that, I never did use the reloading benches in New Vegas because there was almost no point.
Of course, this all goes back to being able to make turrets out of tin cans. Or a section of wall out of half of a dozen pencils. The whole system is kind of... iffy. For usability's sake I guess.
Post by: Jiokuy on December 23, 2015, 03:32:26 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Well that got super long.
Radiant quests are not examples of satisfying practice based gameplay primarily because they are not hard. You do not fail radiant quests regularly. You're not practicing to get better, you're just taking out the laundry, they feel like chore, because they are functionally chores the game is asking you to complete. They are not an example of satisfying Improv based gameplay because they feel routine, Improve gameplay relies on the feeling of accomplishment from solving a novel challenge in the moment. And quite frankly even when radiant quests are reasonably challenging, they still don't feel novel. They are not examples of satisfying plan based gameplay, because in all honesty you just can't plan around them. FO4 barely rewards good planning in the first place, and there is nothing unique about radiant quests that requires you to think through your loadout before embarking on them.
Basically FO4 in an attempt to appeal to many different audiences, instead watered down all aspects of it's gameplay. In trying to appeal to everyone it is a significantly worse game.
It can be fun, but it is fun by accident more than by design.
Post by: scriver on December 23, 2015, 03:49:13 pm
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 23, 2015, 05:49:21 pm
Being able to craft ammo does trivialize it, and I'm not so sure about it anyway. How realistic is it to make usable bullets for a modern weapon from junk? I'd guess nearly impossible without very specific tools. Having said that, I never did use the reloading benches in New Vegas because there was almost no point.
Casings would be the only really hard part to make, and even those are just cast bronze. As long as you have the bullet dimensions, you could probably use clay dies for that since bronze doesn't require a particularly high melting point.
The bullets themselves would be extremely simple. The die could be made out of clay, steel, probably even wood. In order to put on a jacket, you can use electroplating. You could make a battery out of sulfuric acid and lead in a clay pot for that.
The powder and primer would require a bit of chemistry, but nothing beyond a high school level.
For the powder, nitric acid's the most difficult reagent to get, but once you have it, it can be used in other chemical reactions to make more nitric acid. From there, soaking plant fiber like cotton or paper produces nitrocellulose, and mixing it with corn-based glycerin and some sulfuric acid as a catalyst makes nitroglycerin. Mix the two together for a good, if simple, double-base smokeless powder and then weigh it out and fill the bullet.
The primer would probably be the hardest thing to deal with, if not necessarily the hardest to make. You need a fairly sensitive explosive, and some of them can be extremely unsafe. Silver fulminate and nitrogen triiodide, for example, have trouble even being handled. Mercury fulminate is reasonably safe, but getting the required resources might not be easy and mercury is poisonous.
Overall, though, anyone who does know what they're doing could probably put together an effective ammunition building station out of literal scrap.
Post by: Greenbane on December 23, 2015, 06:12:15 pm
Due to over-reliance on the Radiant Quest system Bethesda is so proud of, F4 is boring.
(...)
I've put in 200 hours on my main save, and while I have yet to even bother completing many sidequests, the Radiant system has utterly burnt me out when it comes to basic gameplay.
Does not compute.
You don't play a boring game for 200 hours. Fallout 4 may be dumb and shallow to some extent, but boring, it is not. At least not until you've put several dozen hours into it.
And what's the Radiant system, by the way? From what I could gather skimming the comments, is it the procedural quest generator?
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on December 23, 2015, 06:15:35 pm
There could be plenty of other reasons someone would play a game for such a long time, peer pressure*, addictiveness, perhaps it was fun before? I've got 128 hours into New Vegas, and I can't really say that there were many times I was really excited.
Post by: Neonivek on December 23, 2015, 06:16:53 pm
So yeah... creation of bullets isn't too far fetched.
If anything Fallout 4 has kind of hit the point where it hit its own version of medieval stasis.
I mean... Yes it still being highly radioactive is ok, since it isn't based on real science but the broken sci-fi and broken science of the time "The heart is one cell".
Post by: Fniff on December 23, 2015, 06:35:11 pm
If anything Fallout 4 has kind of hit the point where it hit its own version of medieval stasis.This hits the nail right on the head.
Except, apocalypse stasis is somehow more ridiculous then medieval stasis. Because while medieval life is, well, medieval, it is still a working society. Apocalypse stasis just has all these weird gaps that no-one has filled.
Mr. House: "Hey, welcome to my amazing utopia, where society has reestablished itself in a anarcho-capitalist playground!"
Wastelanders: "Wow! That sounds amazing! The streets must be paved with gold, it's so great!"
Mr. House: "Haha, no, they're paved with rubble. Despite the fact I've got an army of robots, I can't be arsed hiring someone to get debris off the thoroughfare. In fact, when you get right down to it, the only difference between New Vegas and other settlements is the lack of murderous psychopaths."
Wastelander: "Oh. Well, that still sounds okay."
Mr. House: "The murderous psychopaths are outside the city. Except ours are more murderous and more psychopathic then regular ol' raiders. Good luck getting inside!"
The issue with taking into account the sheer amount of years that have passed, is that you end up with something so distant from human society that it's completely unrecognizable, at which point you might as well make a fantasy game.
The alternative to that would be to create a game set right after a nuclear war, which on the plus side would have a reasonable excuse for all the rubble and bodies, but would be incredibly depressing.
... On a similar topic, I wonder how you'd go about making a game based off Threads. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threads)
Post by: Telgin on December 23, 2015, 06:50:39 pm
Being able to craft ammo does trivialize it, and I'm not so sure about it anyway. How realistic is it to make usable bullets for a modern weapon from junk? I'd guess nearly impossible without very specific tools. Having said that, I never did use the reloading benches in New Vegas because there was almost no point.
-snip-
Overall, though, anyone who does know what they're doing could probably put together an effective ammunition building station out of literal scrap.
I guess it's not so hard to believe that you can make bullets, but I would expect it to be very hard to make good bullets for manufactured weapons. Aren't the tolerances extremely tight, so that the bullet will engage the rifling properly? I'd expect that deviating from that very much would either wear the gun out super fast or significantly degrade the range, damage and accuracy of the weapon. Maybe it's easier to get the tolerances to spec than I think.
Making ammo for pipe rifles and the like seems a lot more plausible to do with household junk at least.
Post by: Greenbane on December 23, 2015, 07:20:00 pm
I guess it's not so hard to believe that you can make bullets, but I would expect it to be very hard to make good bullets for manufactured weapons. Aren't the tolerances extremely tight, so that the bullet will engage the rifling properly? I'd expect that deviating from that very much would either wear the gun out super fast or significantly degrade the range, damage and accuracy of the weapon. Maybe it's easier to get the tolerances to spec than I think.
Making ammo for pipe rifles and the like seems a lot more plausible to do with household junk at least.
Ultimately, the most implausible part is that there's so much pre-war ammunition lying around after 200+ years (not to mention weapons, but that's beside the point). Ammunition crafting isn't in itself implausible, but from a gameplay perspective you'd need to balance it. In this case, that'd mean making pre-war ammo a lot scarcer, which makes sense.
Personally, I think it'd be interesting to have to mostly rely on "homemade" ammo, as the properly manufactured kind would be very rare. You could even make it so that proper bullets are more effective than the improvised stuff everyone inevitably ends up using most of the time.
Post by: MarcAFK on December 23, 2015, 07:33:06 pm
More likely is that a gun lieing in the wasteland for 200 years has rusted beyond use. Even a decade should be enough to ruin the mainsprings or weld the reciever solid.
Sure t34's can be recovered from polish swamps 80 years later and be drivable after restoration, but the complex mechanical parts are mostly sealed in oil filled cases, also a swamp is actually a fairly good place for preservation, low oxygen levels etc. gun parts are small too and having tiny tolerances means microscopic corrosion is enough to break operation.
That guy with the AK full of Twinkie put his much abused glock into a dishwasher and it rusted immediately. To be honest all the corrosive shit he put that glock in probably affected the factory anti corrosion coating, but 200 years in the wasteland has got to be pretty bad.
Edit: why isn't any of that stuff buried? The earth does move, at the least you would expect roads to be buried and houses in worse condition, here's a random picture of a gun dug out of a hole after 100 years.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
To be honest, the trench itself looks almost exactly like decayed fallout shack walls and junk fences, so good job there. Contains graphic images, there's a bone sticking out of a helmet and possibly more I missed.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2099187/Bodies-21-German-soldiers-buried-alive-WW1-trench-perfectly-preserved-94-years-later.html
Post by: nenjin on December 23, 2015, 07:38:06 pm
I wasn't really ready to play it yet, I kinda wanted to wait longer for the real mod work to start. That said, what's the state of FO4 modding right now? Any must haves out there already?
Post by: Lightningfalcon on December 23, 2015, 07:53:37 pm
Post by: MarcAFK on December 23, 2015, 07:54:51 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 23, 2015, 08:16:15 pm
Bullets aren't really a problem, casings can get reused and as long as there's some softer metal like lead forming a seal for the rifling you can use not quite properly fitting rounds. You loose efficiency and get mechanical problems though.
More likely is that a gun lieing in the wasteland for 200 years has rusted beyond use. Even a decade should be enough to ruin the mainsprings or weld the reciever solid.
Sure t34's can be recovered from polish swamps 80 years later and be drivable after restoration, but the complex mechanical parts are mostly sealed in oil filled cases, also a swamp is actually a fairly good place for preservation, low oxygen levels etc. gun parts are small too and having tiny tolerances means microscopic corrosion is enough to break operation.
That guy with the AK full of Twinkie put his much abused glock into a dishwasher and it rusted immediately. To be honest all the corrosive shit he put that glock in probably affected the factory anti corrosion coating, but 200 years in the wasteland has got to be pretty bad.
Edit: why isn't any of that stuff buried? The earth does move, at the least you would expect roads to be buried and houses in worse condition, here's a random picture of a gun dug out of a hole after 100 years.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
To be honest, the trench itself looks almost exactly like decayed fallout shack walls and junk fences, so good job there. Contains graphic images, there's a bone sticking out of a helmet and possibly more I missed.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2099187/Bodies-21-German-soldiers-buried-alive-WW1-trench-perfectly-preserved-94-years-later.html
Casings can be reused, but they need to be resized and occasionally they split.
Pure lead isn't going to really be used in any modern calibre, since it'll leave lead deposits down the barrel, enough to render it inaccurate after a few shots and potentially splitting after more. You wouldn't even want to use just hard lead (alloys with something like antimony or tin) for rifles, you'd want to use jacketed rounds.
After 200 years, there would be basically nothing left of the old world- not ruined roads or cities.
But these are both acceptable breaks in reality that you just need lead to make a rifle round or that buildings are still mostly intact to make
Post by: Reudh on December 23, 2015, 08:25:22 pm
Got gifted this for Xmas.
I wasn't really ready to play it yet, I kinda wanted to wait longer for the real mod work to start. That said, what's the state of FO4 modding right now? Any must haves out there already?
No must haves that I've seen. People are fairly limited in what they can do using FO4EDIT.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on December 23, 2015, 09:06:11 pm
Bullets aren't really a problem, casings can get reused and as long as there's some softer metal like lead forming a seal for the rifling you can use not quite properly fitting rounds. You loose efficiency and get mechanical problems though.
More likely is that a gun lieing in the wasteland for 200 years has rusted beyond use. Even a decade should be enough to ruin the mainsprings or weld the reciever solid.
Sure t34's can be recovered from polish swamps 80 years later and be drivable after restoration, but the complex mechanical parts are mostly sealed in oil filled cases, also a swamp is actually a fairly good place for preservation, low oxygen levels etc. gun parts are small too and having tiny tolerances means microscopic corrosion is enough to break operation.
That guy with the AK full of Twinkie put his much abused glock into a dishwasher and it rusted immediately. To be honest all the corrosive shit he put that glock in probably affected the factory anti corrosion coating, but 200 years in the wasteland has got to be pretty bad.
Edit: why isn't any of that stuff buried? The earth does move, at the least you would expect roads to be buried and houses in worse condition, here's a random picture of a gun dug out of a hole after 100 years.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
To be honest, the trench itself looks almost exactly like decayed fallout shack walls and junk fences, so good job there. Contains graphic images, there's a bone sticking out of a helmet and possibly more I missed.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2099187/Bodies-21-German-soldiers-buried-alive-WW1-trench-perfectly-preserved-94-years-later.html
Casings can be reused, but they need to be resized and occasionally they split.
Pure lead isn't going to really be used in any modern calibre, since it'll leave lead deposits down the barrel, enough to render it inaccurate after a few shots and potentially splitting after more. You wouldn't even want to use just hard lead (alloys with something like antimony or tin) for rifles, you'd want to use jacketed rounds.
After 200 years, there would be basically nothing left of the old world- not ruined roads or cities.
But these are both acceptable breaks in reality that you just need lead to make a rifle round or that buildings are still mostly intact to make
It's mostly because they wanted to try and tie the series away into their own thing.. They just didn't plan for it well.
Post by: MarcAFK on December 23, 2015, 09:19:45 pm
Oh or playboy mansion 40k.
Post by: Grim Portent on December 23, 2015, 09:37:51 pm
Bullets aren't really a problem, casings can get reused and as long as there's some softer metal like lead forming a seal for the rifling you can use not quite properly fitting rounds. You loose efficiency and get mechanical problems though.
More likely is that a gun lieing in the wasteland for 200 years has rusted beyond use. Even a decade should be enough to ruin the mainsprings or weld the reciever solid.
Sure t34's can be recovered from polish swamps 80 years later and be drivable after restoration, but the complex mechanical parts are mostly sealed in oil filled cases, also a swamp is actually a fairly good place for preservation, low oxygen levels etc. gun parts are small too and having tiny tolerances means microscopic corrosion is enough to break operation.
That guy with the AK full of Twinkie put his much abused glock into a dishwasher and it rusted immediately. To be honest all the corrosive shit he put that glock in probably affected the factory anti corrosion coating, but 200 years in the wasteland has got to be pretty bad.
Edit: why isn't any of that stuff buried? The earth does move, at the least you would expect roads to be buried and houses in worse condition, here's a random picture of a gun dug out of a hole after 100 years.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
To be honest, the trench itself looks almost exactly like decayed fallout shack walls and junk fences, so good job there. Contains graphic images, there's a bone sticking out of a helmet and possibly more I missed.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2099187/Bodies-21-German-soldiers-buried-alive-WW1-trench-perfectly-preserved-94-years-later.html
Casings can be reused, but they need to be resized and occasionally they split.
Pure lead isn't going to really be used in any modern calibre, since it'll leave lead deposits down the barrel, enough to render it inaccurate after a few shots and potentially splitting after more. You wouldn't even want to use just hard lead (alloys with something like antimony or tin) for rifles, you'd want to use jacketed rounds.
After 200 years, there would be basically nothing left of the old world- not ruined roads or cities.
But these are both acceptable breaks in reality that you just need lead to make a rifle round or that buildings are still mostly intact to make
It's mostly because they wanted to try and tie the series away into their own thing.. They just didn't plan for it well.
I think the original plan Bethesda is supposed to have had was for FO3 to be set just a few decades after the war (which would have made Little Lamplight make waaaaay more sense,) but something happened part way through development and stuff got changed. By that point they already had a lot of stuff made and had to just run with it.
The overall aesthetic they wound up with is pretty nice though, so I personally don't mind the issues like 'why haven't the houses collapsed?' and 'why is there still uneaten food in the supermarkets?'
Post by: Sirbug on December 23, 2015, 11:24:19 pm
But it's also a videogame universe. Any Videogame, like, say, TES tends to have unreasonable for a populated region number of ruins, bandits and monsters.
Post by: MarcAFK on December 23, 2015, 11:31:23 pm
Post by: GundamMerc on December 24, 2015, 12:01:19 am
It does make some sense if the radiation levels here were so high that people have only just returned, though Chernobyl and even Fukushima show major reforestation in areas people have avoided.
Chernobyl and Fukushima =/= massive nuclear war
Fukushima in fact isn't even a nuclear disaster. the only people who died there were two workers that drowned from the tsunami. the amount of radioactivity added to the ocean is literally a drop, not in a bucket, but in an ocean. It has no practical effect.
Post by: Mech#4 on December 24, 2015, 12:15:12 am
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 24, 2015, 12:22:40 am
Belatedly, I just noticed this earlier post, and while I'm not about to jump at anyone's throat...Due to over-reliance on the Radiant Quest system Bethesda is so proud of, F4 is boring.
(...)
I've put in 200 hours on my main save, and while I have yet to even bother completing many sidequests, the Radiant system has utterly burnt me out when it comes to basic gameplay.
Does not compute.
You don't play a boring game for 200 hours. Fallout 4 may be dumb and shallow to some extent, but boring, it is not. At least not until you've put several dozen hours into it.
And what's the Radiant system, by the way? From what I could gather skimming the comments, is it the procedural quest generator?
I play games for extremely long periods of time, it has to do with being a stay at home dad. I have over six hundred hours in Terraria for example, and I go for months without playing it. Almost three hundred hours in Starbound, and it is still a bad game. Unknown hundreds or thousands of hours in Fallout 3, and I cannot even play the game without around a hundred mods because the setting and gameplay drive me berserk. I am a completionist, so once I pick a game up I tend to do absolutely everything that game has to offer, that tends to lead to massively inflated play times. Games I don't like will still get twenty to forty hours of play before being shelved indefinitely.
The Radiant system is Bethesda's 'crowning achievement' from Skyrim, you are correct that it is the procedural quest generator (tho in Skyrim it also did a number of other things which are strangely absent in F4), it is the reason that you're going to Abernathy Farm for the fortieth time to rescue dumbass's wife from raiders.
Post by: Krevsin on December 24, 2015, 12:50:48 am
Which is another thing that really bothers me in FO4. You can't turn down a lot of quests. You just get them and they sit there in your Data tab of the pip boy.
Post by: MarcAFK on December 24, 2015, 03:00:10 am
I'm not going to drag out the implausibility of "salted " nuclear weapons capable of doing this over a global scale, but it's entirely plausible considering the tiny area fallout 4 represents. A single weapon could potentially affect that area with the right radio nucleotide to basically sanitise it for 200 years. But lack of rust would require massive alteration of weather patterns, the water throughout the area however shows there should easily be enough humidity for iron to decay.
Post by: Krevsin on December 24, 2015, 03:03:56 am
If you want realism, go watch Threads. This is Fallout and radiation is magic. :P
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 24, 2015, 04:34:44 am
Post by: Krevsin on December 24, 2015, 05:22:16 am
Post by: scriver on December 24, 2015, 07:55:49 am
It does make some sense if the radiation levels here were so high that people have only just returned, though Chernobyl and even Fukushima show major reforestation in areas people have avoided.
Except that isn't supported by the story. Megaton, Lamplight (and adulttown), Rivet City, they've all been there for quite some time.
Post by: Antioch on December 24, 2015, 09:37:05 am
Post by: BFEL on December 24, 2015, 09:46:56 am
Maybe I've been misinformed, but I'm PRETTY sure that a nuclear reactor meltdown (ala Chernobyl) is far MORE radioactive then a nuclear bomb. Like, MASSIVELY more radiation.It does make some sense if the radiation levels here were so high that people have only just returned, though Chernobyl and even Fukushima show major reforestation in areas people have avoided.
Chernobyl and Fukushima =/= massive nuclear war
Fukushima in fact isn't even a nuclear disaster. the only people who died there were two workers that drowned from the tsunami. the amount of radioactivity added to the ocean is literally a drop, not in a bucket, but in an ocean. It has no practical effect.
So, on the subject of settlements, has anyone else noticed some oddity regarding settlers actually showing up sometimes? What I mean is, my char's got 11 charisma, and I habitually wear a full set of leather with the 'sharp' prefix, but Sanctuary only has a pop of 13, The Slog appears to be terminally capped at 18, and it took nearly an in-game month for the drive-in to break 20, and even then it's only at 23. I haven't seen any other weirdness (like the being to far away causes food and water to be counted as zero bug), so I'm not sure what is going on here.What I do is I just put radio towers errywhere and then tell the people who show up at those places to move to where I want a big town to be.
For example using Zimonja as a attractor and then sending everyone who shows up there to Sanctuary.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 25, 2015, 10:32:13 am
Edit: I also cannot coc to any of the interior cells.
2nd Edit: Found the problem, if anyone is using the current version of CBBE, either the body or the 'vanilla clothes' plugin is causing the crash, it's a problem with the vault suit. Simply toggling it didn't work, I had to completely uninstall the mod in order to get things working.
3rd Edit: Went to report at the Nexus, only to find that the stickied post had been recently updated to include a warning about this.
Post by: miauw62 on December 25, 2015, 02:01:19 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 25, 2015, 02:21:34 pm
Post by: Sirbug on December 25, 2015, 03:01:30 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on December 25, 2015, 03:19:07 pm
I love the fact that we're wondering, yes.
Post by: BFEL on December 25, 2015, 03:46:23 pm
It sets up a weird disconnect between the player and the character. Which isn't really BAD...but its odd.
I mean, for most of the game there's probably a disconnect anyway simply because the vault dweller is railroaded so hard with the limited dialogue options, but the Institute really hammers it home.
There are ways to make this not a terrible thing (see the Saints Row series whenever the PC is characterized as liking certain things) but its weird to have in a Bethesda game. And especially so when you are the one choosing whether to do what YOU think is best or what your character would think is best.
... I just said the same thing 3 different ways :P
Post by: Sirbug on December 25, 2015, 04:06:34 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 25, 2015, 06:27:07 pm
So, to those I have upset or crossed blades with: I am sorry.
The reason I (and others) have been wrong is an assumption based on Bethesda's chosen naming scheme: Fallout 3 and Fallout4. This choice led me to believe that Bethesda was intending to pick up where Fallout 1&2 left off, when in reality their intent (very poorly explained in or out of game) has been to spin their own separate and distinct timeline.
The division point is the same as Fallout Tactics, in the Black Isle universe, the Brotherhood of Steel never tried to become a major force, they were content to use their knowledge to help the fledgling NCR (only to later be betrayed, but that is not important here.) In the Tactics universe the BoS built their airships, and headed out to destroy the remnants of the Master's Army, and in the process unified the Midwest under the BoS banner. In the Bethesda universe the airships happened, and maybe the unification happened (insufficient data, the intolerance for non-humans leads me to believe that the unification did not occur), then they spread east eventually arriving in the Capital Wasteland.
I am not going to forgive certain distortions of established lore, but overall this realization has helped me come to terms with Bethesda's vision for Fallout.
Post by: MorleyDev on December 25, 2015, 06:50:03 pm
Do hope they decide to give Obsidian the reins again for another spin-off game set on the west coast. Would be interesting to see what they can do with the new engine. The gameplay of 4 but with quests that have choices that actually matter and your character just saying the same thing in a slightly different way? Yes please, because "the choice doesn't matter if the outcome is the same" (http://antichamber.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Signs?file=011.png).
Though hopefully without the "We will completely dick you over" clause this time...
Post by: scriver on December 25, 2015, 07:01:21 pm
Post by: Taricus on December 25, 2015, 09:40:32 pm
The division point is the same as Fallout Tactics, in the Black Isle universe, the Brotherhood of Steel never tried to become a major force, they were content to use their knowledge to help the fledgling NCR (only to later be betrayed, but that is not important here.) In the Tactics universe the BoS built their airships, and headed out to destroy the remnants of the Master's Army, and in the process unified the Midwest under the BoS banner. In the Bethesda universe the airships happened, and maybe the unification happened (insufficient data, the intolerance for non-humans leads me to believe that the unification did not occur), then they spread east eventually arriving in the Capital Wasteland.A little distinction is that the midwestern brotherhood were essentially outcasts, basically a schism between the mainstream west/californian BoS which ended up leaving to chase the remnants of the super mutant army. The east coast BoS is actually descended from the californian BoS, given maxson's presence.
Post by: GundamMerc on December 25, 2015, 11:29:03 pm
The division point is the same as Fallout Tactics, in the Black Isle universe, the Brotherhood of Steel never tried to become a major force, they were content to use their knowledge to help the fledgling NCR (only to later be betrayed, but that is not important here.) In the Tactics universe the BoS built their airships, and headed out to destroy the remnants of the Master's Army, and in the process unified the Midwest under the BoS banner. In the Bethesda universe the airships happened, and maybe the unification happened (insufficient data, the intolerance for non-humans leads me to believe that the unification did not occur), then they spread east eventually arriving in the Capital Wasteland.A little distinction is that the midwestern brotherhood were essentially outcasts, basically a schism between the mainstream west/californian BoS which ended up leaving to chase the remnants of the super mutant army. The east coast BoS is actually descended from the californian BoS, given maxson's presence.
A bit of, not correction, because what you're said is technically correct, but clarification. The East Coast BoS originate from the californian BoS, but diverge early on upon arriving in the Capital Wasteland. They fracture, then after Lyons dies have several weak leaders before Maxson takes charge. Maxson institutes a recruiting system involving sponsoring by Knights that is a compromise between the xenophobic views of the original BoS and the reckless recruitment of unreliable wastelanders without any system of weeding them out under Lyons. This allowed a growth in overall strength of the East Coast BoS, especially once the Outcasts were reintegrated when Maxson proved to be more along the lines of their viewpoint. The huge amount of war material recovered from the Enclave operations in the CW allowed them to basically overhaul their forces from the T-45 Power armor they had been using to the much more advanced T-60 suits they currently use.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 26, 2015, 01:49:05 am
A little distinction is that the midwestern brotherhood were essentially outcasts, basically a schism between the mainstream west/californian BoS which ended up leaving to chase the remnants of the super mutant army. The east coast BoS is actually descended from the californian BoS, given maxson's presence.
That is another reason that I put the Bethesda universe in it's own category, separate from Tactics.
Post by: SOLDIER First on December 26, 2015, 02:20:11 am
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 26, 2015, 02:22:06 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on December 26, 2015, 02:24:28 am
this wifi pains me ;-;
Post by: Sensei on December 26, 2015, 03:10:13 am
this game is fucking amazing and also why is copper so hard to findI was like you. Once I marked it as a searched resource I realized that it was in fact all over the place. Also the advanced scrapping perk is really nice.
Oh yeah, since we're talking about the game, is it just me or does FO4 have lot less (non-radiant) quests than we normally expect from a Bethesda game- say Skyrim, or Fallout 3? It feels like a peculiar omission.
Post by: BlackFlyme on December 26, 2015, 03:25:48 am
Post by: Flying Dice on December 26, 2015, 04:59:29 am
Post by: scriver on December 26, 2015, 05:20:43 am
Post by: Flying Dice on December 26, 2015, 06:02:18 am
Post by: Krevsin on December 26, 2015, 06:04:47 am
Post by: scriver on December 26, 2015, 06:36:52 am
Post by: Flying Dice on December 26, 2015, 07:02:02 am
Post by: scriver on December 26, 2015, 07:18:11 am
Post by: Lossmar on December 26, 2015, 08:12:21 am
- almost every NPC, no matter how minor, is immortal
- dialogue is neutered beyond belief and suffers frome "Bioware syndrome" ( my chosen option is often drastically different than what is actually spoken by my character )
- preset character background, sexual orientation, martial status etc
- complete failure at storytelling ( how the fuck im suppose to get attached to my husband/wife and child if i spend less than 5 minutes with them before shit hits the fan ?? Does the concept of "Developing characters" mean anything to you Howard ?? )
- Bethesda is still completely shit at worldbuilding ( edible food after 200 years, working weapons, no signs of rebuilding etc )
- just like every other Bethesda game world feels completely empty, featureless and unresponsive to my actions
- it takes 15 minutes to get Power Armour ( which my housewife is somehow familliar to the point she can operate, fix and even modify it ) and minigun
- everything is so fricking SHALLOW - Dogmeat trusts you without even slightest work to earn his trust, you can be a Minuteman general without actually doing any quests etc.
- and many many other shitty "features"
Only thing that i liked was the settlement building ( makes me in the mood for some Fallout/post apo mod for either DF or Rimworld ) and weapon cutomization ( especially NAMING THEM ).
I also liked the removal of skills because its a cardinal sin of an action-rpg-fps hybrid to trump player skill because of character skill.
If i would had to give a numerical score it would be a very forced 5/10.
Post by: dv on December 26, 2015, 10:35:07 am
- everything is so fricking SHALLOW - Dogmeat trusts you without even slightest work to earn his trust, you can be a Minuteman general without actually doing any quests etc.Funny in New Vegas Veronica doesn't just trust and join you, she even tells you she's BoS immediately.
If FO4 is shallow then NV must be the Mariana trench.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 26, 2015, 10:51:33 am
- everything is so fricking SHALLOW - Dogmeat trusts you without even slightest work to earn his trust, you can be a Minuteman general without actually doing any quests etc.Funny in New Vegas Veronica doesn't just trust and join you, she even tells you she's BoS immediately.
If FO4 is shallow then NV must be the Mariana trench.
As far as I recall, Veronica only tells you she's BoS if you pass some skill checks.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 26, 2015, 11:03:19 am
Well no, she chats and then asks your opinion of the BoS. If you reply negatively, she breaks contact and will never join you. She only reveals her allegiance if you seem friendly to them. (Or maybe if you make a skill check yeah, I don't remember)- everything is so fricking SHALLOW - Dogmeat trusts you without even slightest work to earn his trust, you can be a Minuteman general without actually doing any quests etc.Funny in New Vegas Veronica doesn't just trust and join you, she even tells you she's BoS immediately.
If FO4 is shallow then NV must be the Mariana trench.
And Cassidy tells you to fuck off, until you actually have business which justifies traveling together. I don't know much about the other companion options, but these two were pretty slow to join. Raul didn't seem easy either. I didn't even find him, and his location is... inhospitable.
In Fallout 4 they generally have excuses to throw in with you (except Dogmeat) but they're flimsy, and very little effort is required. Preston, Piper, and Valentine swear allegiance pretty much on sight as part of the railroaded main plot. That merc in Goodneighbor will be yours forever for 100, 200 caps? Could probably make a profit by stripping his equipment immediately. Strong is the only one I met yet who wasn't effortless to get to, really. And Danse, sorta, though he's really just a signing bonus for joining the BoS.
Post by: Persus13 on December 26, 2015, 11:50:46 am
Spoiler: New Vegas Companion stuff (click to show/hide)
Having seen some of Fallout 4, companions seem to be a much more necessary part of the game, as you could play through New Vegas without recruiting any companions, while in Fallout 4, you get Codsworth and Dogmeat almost immediately, so that may explain the difference in difficulty.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 26, 2015, 12:02:58 pm
Christ what a travesty of a game ....Yep, totally, and... yeah. I lucked out with my high cha and int character having the background of "lawyer", but I was disappointed to find out that that's static. It's also weird having voice acting.
- almost every NPC, no matter how minor, is immortal
- dialogue is neutered beyond belief and suffers frome "Bioware syndrome" ( my chosen option is often drastically different than what is actually spoken by my character )
- preset character background, sexual orientation, martial status etc
To be fair though, New Vegas also forced us to have been a courier. And that history is rather central to the plot (even though the player doesn't know anything about it, which is a cardinal sin of storytelling unless the character has amnesia...grrr). I guess the main differene is that FO4 forces us the PC to be happily married, whereas we don't know how the Courier felt about their job. Or their orientation or relationship status.
(Seriously though, it's fucked that the Courier remembers the backstory of Lonesome Road but the player never does. That creates a *huge* disconnect between player and character, and is so very easily fixed by having the Courier receive amnesia and a change of personality from their traumatic head wound. Fuck the word-of-god.)
- complete failure at storytelling ( how the fuck im suppose to get attached to my husband/wife and child if i spend less than 5 minutes with them before shit hits the fan ?? Does the concept of "Developing characters" mean anything to you Howard ?? )Nah I thought the intro scene established everything it needed to, concisely. I didn't want it to specify more about *my* character. I spent at least half an hour in it, too, though maybe half of that was crafting my husbando and me.
It worked, too, I did get attached.
- Bethesda is still completely shit at worldbuilding ( edible food after 200 years, working weapons, no signs of rebuilding etc )The food's sterilized by radiation. They actually try to address the weapon thing by introducing "pipe" weapons everywhere, though it's not a perfect explanation by any stretch... But style is more important than realism. This isn't "what would happen after a nuclear war", it's "what would 50's pulp fiction think would happen".
And there is rebuilding happening everywhere... The Commonwealth is covered in prosperous settlements, there are three towns, and the bandits/gunners have built fortresses and are re-inventing the feudal system of government.
- just like every other Bethesda game world feels completely empty, featureless and unresponsive to my actionsIt's really shitty power armor limited by fusion cores.
- it takes 15 minutes to get Power Armour ( which my housewife is somehow familliar to the point she can operate, fix and even modify it ) and minigun
But lorewise yes, it bothers me that anyone can operate it. I... guess the husband may have taught the wife how to use it, and they're teaching the settlers "off-camera". And... the bandits... are orks?
It doesn't make sense, they just wanted to show off their fancy power armor. So you're right.
- everything is so fricking SHALLOW - Dogmeat trusts you without even slightest work to earn his trust, you can be a Minuteman general without actually doing any quests etc.I really hate the multi-part armor. It adds so much hassle, can't be tracked with the "favorites" button, and is not worth the mild novelty of wearing mismatched equipment. It really highlights the failings of the inventory system, which worked well enough in NV. Even Skyrim let you tag items as important without *DEDICATING A FREAKING HOTKEY*
- and many many other shitty "features"
I'm glad people like the settlement building, I personally don't care for it. But I'm glad they added it.
Only thing that i liked was the settlement building ( makes me in the mood for some Fallout/post apo mod for either DF or Rimworld ) and weapon cutomization ( especially NAMING THEM ).
I also liked the removal of skills because its a cardinal sin of an action-rpg-fps hybrid to trump player skill because of character skill.If we consider Fallout to be the same sort of series as Borderlands, sure. But I do not. Fallout 3 was a first-person RPG in 3D. Character skill trumped player skill in combat, as it did in Fallout 1/2. Because the challenge wasn't supposed to be "aim well, hug cover" like an FPS. It was to design an effective character then use their SPECIAL abilities to complete quests. The game was easy to complete without firing outside of VATS, *if* you leveled your character well.
NV changed that significantly, putting massive emphasis on the player's FPS skills. For the first time, good character design wasn't enough to win fights, and I think that was an unfortunate change. But NV did better than 3 in making the non-combat abilities useful, and was a very good game in other ways. No amount of character design would let you snipe effectively if you (the player) couldn't aim, but sniping was never strictly *necessary*. So it could still be played by a RPG enthusiast. I think I could complete New Vegas using only VATS, with some difficulty.
FO4 went the rest of the way. It's basically one of those shooters with RPG elements to increase grind, now. The skill system is gone and the perk system, while fancy and fun for a bit, practically doesn't matter. SPECIAL is a ghost of its former self. It has redeeming attributes, and fortunately I'm decent at shooters, but they have abandoned what made Fallout 3, uniquely, an immersive first-person RPG.
If i would had to give a numerical score it would be a very forced 5/10.I'd say 7/10. I'm enjoying it, it just shouldn't have been Fallout.
And they should lay off with the freaking zombies everywhere, cripes! Lazy as hell. (Yes this applies to Fallout 3 as well :P)
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on December 26, 2015, 12:28:59 pm
Quote
Veronica and Arcade Gannon are probably the two easiest to get. Veronica basically begs to join you, if as said above, you like the BoS, and for Gannon, you just ask him to join you (But he won't if you're going Legion).
There's actually quite a few ways of getting arcade to join you (Low int, high rep with followers, confirmed bachelor, Julis quest, speech check of 75). He won't join you automatically without doing some of these things.
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 26, 2015, 12:48:50 pm
New Vegas hit the nail on the head, I think. Character skill was important, but you could do other things to mitigate it like crouching and aiming to brace your weapon, and in plenty of cases you could just avoid fighting altogether. Fallout 4 went a little too far in that combat became the end-all be-all of a lot of major parts of the game.
Post by: dv on December 26, 2015, 12:53:44 pm
That merc in Goodneighbor will be yours forever for 100, 200 caps?Also funny, the very first companion in a Fallout game, Ian from Shady Sands, joins you for 100 caps.
I think a lot people are engaging in delusional fantasies of what earlier Fallouts were like.
Post by: scriver on December 26, 2015, 01:46:55 pm
Post by: Lossmar on December 26, 2015, 02:10:57 pm
Quote
To be fair though, New Vegas also forced us to have been a courier
But you could be a wrench wench female one, suit and tommy gun Al Capone wannabe guy, gay, les, bi, whatever. You could roleplay any number of backgrounds and the only thing definitive about you was that you were the Courier. And F4 takes this away from you, you will always be either female lawyer or male vet, at least one of you has to be white ( because its kinda hard to have white kid from two black/asian ) people, you have to be hetero etc.
Quote
Nah I thought the intro scene established everything it needed to, concisely. I didn't want it to specify more about *my* character. I spent at least half an hour in it, too, though maybe half of that was crafting my husbando and me.But it was absurd. Someone on NMA already ripped this to shreds.
It would be hundred times better if you had a character creation screen at the beggining, adequately tense and dramatic cutscene and the entire game should begin with main char waking up to see his spouse killed etc.
Quote
it's "what would 50's pulp fiction think would happen".Stop with this failed argument guys.
Even in "50's pulp fiction fantasy" people have to eat, drink and sleep somewhere. Even in "50's pulp fantasy" people would CLEAN shit like rubble, broken cars, chairs, doors etc from the place where they live. I wouldn't mind if this entire game was simply 25-30 years after war - ok this thing take time. But fucking two centuries and no one bothered to move this car wreck from the middle of the street ?
Quote
It's really shitty power armor limited by fusion cores.But its a Power Armour nonetheless.
First lightsaber in KOTOR 1 and 2 was also pretty lame and weak but it felt like great achievement to finally get your hands on it 10-20 hours into the game.
Quote
If we consider Fallout to be the same sort of series as Borderlands, sure. But I do not. Fallout 3 was a first-person RPG in 3D. Character skill trumped player skill in combat, as it did in Fallout 1/2. Because the challenge wasn't supposed to be "aim well, hug cover" like an FPS. It was to design an effective character then use their SPECIAL abilities to complete quests. The game was easy to complete without firing outside of VATS, *if* you leveled your character well.
F4 like NV and 3 are FPS with RPG elements. I dont mind my lame ass character missing thing in Fallout 2 because he is the one doing the aiming and shooting. But in 3/4/NV I AM THE ONE AIMING and its fucking infuriating to see bullets fly everywhere but the direction im pointing my gun.
I know i wont see Fallout 5 in isometric perspective with turn based combat. So if i have to choose i will take F4 skilless system over NV/3 anytime.
Post by: dv on December 26, 2015, 02:34:26 pm
No, but the expectations on follower... dimension-of-personage has grown since then. Just like our expectations of graphics.Not really. Pillars of Eternity and other recent RPGs have the same hello-ok-I'll-join-you followers and I didn't see anyone complaining.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 26, 2015, 02:38:05 pm
Post by: Teneb on December 26, 2015, 02:39:55 pm
at least one of you has to be white ( because its kinda hard to have white kid from two black/asian )I know this is about nitpicky as it comes, but this is not the case. Shaun's appearance will change based on the parents. That means if you make two hideous monsters, things can get amusing.
Post by: AlleeCat on December 26, 2015, 03:38:15 pm
you have to be hetero etc.Nope. Gay people have kids and get married to the opposite sex all the time. Look at pretty much any anti-gay politician.
Ba-dum-tish!
In all seriousness, I really do enjoy Fallout 4, (and I seem to be the only one who is still enjoying it now...) but I actually got more enjoyment out of Oblivion on the Xbox 360. I got maybe 300 hours out of it with no mods, and I'm already starting to need mods for F4. This could also be owed to the fact that I was in highschool when I was playing my 300+ hour save on Oblivion, and had nothing much else to do with my free time, but I dunno. It seemed like there was more uniqueness to each quest, and I didn't have to go out looking for new quest triggers.
Post by: MorleyDev on December 26, 2015, 04:25:56 pm
(Seriously though, it's fucked that the Courier remembers the backstory of Lonesome Road but the player never does. That creates a *huge* disconnect between player and character, and is so very easily fixed by having the Courier receive amnesia and a change of personality from their traumatic head wound. Fuck the word-of-god.)
Actually you can go through the entirety of Lonesome road completely denying any knowledge of anything that happened, making it seem like Ulysses is misblaming The Courier for something they didn't do and too far gone to accept otherwise. You chose to make it the Courier's backstory by picking those dialogue options that have them acknowledge it. There are several instances in the game where you can make dialogue that hints at The Courier's past, but if you don't pick it then it's not your Courier's backstory.
This disconnect between player and character is something Obsidian seem to enjoy exploring (KoToR 2 did something similar, your character goes the majority of the game knowing about things and hinting at things through dialogue options which we, the player, cannot yet know about. There are several times where you decide the way past events played out in dialogue or flashbacks in that game).
Post by: Telgin on December 26, 2015, 04:30:29 pm
Quote from: AlleeCat
In all seriousness, I really do enjoy Fallout 4, (and I seem to be the only one who is still enjoying it now...)
I still enjoy playing FO4, but after the first 10 hours or so I came to realize the game was more shallow than I was hoping for. It just doesn't give me the same feel that previous Fallout games did, for better and for worse. It feels a lot more like a shooter and action game than an RPG. That doesn't make it a bad game or unenjoyable, just not what I was hoping for.
At this point I think I'm going to say what I've seen a lot of other people say: I just hope that it gets a New Vegas equivalent eventually that tweaks the gameplay mechanics and gives a better story.
Post by: BigD145 on December 26, 2015, 06:13:43 pm
you have to be hetero etc.Nope. Gay people have kids and get married to the opposite sex all the time. Look at pretty much any anti-gay politician.
Ba-dum-tish!
HEYO!
Post by: BFEL on December 26, 2015, 08:00:37 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on December 26, 2015, 08:45:22 pm
you have to be hetero etc.Nope. Gay people have kids and get married to the opposite sex all the time. Look at pretty much any anti-gay politician.
Ba-dum-tish!
HEYO!
Beards are a thing, yanno? Especially in pseudo-'50s culture.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 26, 2015, 08:48:04 pm
- just like every other Bethesda game world feels completely empty, featureless and unresponsive to my actionsIt's really shitty power armor limited by fusion cores.
- it takes 15 minutes to get Power Armour ( which my housewife is somehow familliar to the point she can operate, fix and even modify it ) and minigun
But lorewise yes, it bothers me that anyone can operate it. I... guess the husband may have taught the wife how to use it, and they're teaching the settlers "off-camera". And... the bandits... are orks?
It doesn't make sense, they just wanted to show off their fancy power armor. So you're right.
Okay, stop right there. In Fallout 1, 2, and Tactics it takes no specialized training to use PA whatsoever, that mechanic is introduced by Bethesda as of Fallout 3 and is one of the blatant violations of lore that I will not let slide.
Edit: Fallout 1, 2, Tactics, and 4 do not have PA training, 3 and NV do. That is four out of six games where training is not needed, making 3 and NV outliers.
Post by: Ultimuh on December 26, 2015, 08:48:30 pm
Beards are a thing, yanno? Especially in pseudo-'50s culture.
/me rubs his beard on Flying Dice's face.
FEEL the beard.
GROW the beard.
BE the beard.
Post by: miauw62 on December 26, 2015, 09:05:09 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on December 26, 2015, 09:16:34 pm
Thank you, god. It's annoying how people keep holding up 3 and NV as paragons of what Fallout "really" is, except when it suits them not to.- just like every other Bethesda game world feels completely empty, featureless and unresponsive to my actionsIt's really shitty power armor limited by fusion cores.
- it takes 15 minutes to get Power Armour ( which my housewife is somehow familliar to the point she can operate, fix and even modify it ) and minigun
But lorewise yes, it bothers me that anyone can operate it. I... guess the husband may have taught the wife how to use it, and they're teaching the settlers "off-camera". And... the bandits... are orks?
It doesn't make sense, they just wanted to show off their fancy power armor. So you're right.
Okay, stop right there. In Fallout 1, 2, and Tactics it takes no specialized training to use PA whatsoever, that mechanic is introduced by Bethesda as of Fallout 3 and is one of the blatant violations of lore that I will not let slide.
Edit: Fallout 1, 2, Tactics, and 4 do not have PA training, 3 and NV do. That is four out of six games where training is not needed, making 3 and NV outliers.
Like the blind fucking defense of the terrible combat mechanics. "Buh buh RPG not FPS?"
Yeah, FO1/2 weren't FPSes. The pure RPG stats-maketh-man approach worked perfectly well for them, because they were pure RPGs and everything could be derived from stats. When the decision was made to reboot the series as first-person action-RPGs, that stopped making sense, for the same reason that it wouldn't make sense in Diablo-likes: when combat, puzzles, &c. occur in real time, they must by necessity rely to some degree on player skill, because actions in such need more input and allow for finer control than "choose which button to press, and don't worry about how long you take to decide".
Post by: Neonivek on December 26, 2015, 09:32:29 pm
Just because something is a FPS or a RPG or a Strategy Game or a roguelike it doesn't mean it is beholden to those mechanics.
Fallout 3 worked AND had stats. Want to shoot better? Get more skill.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 26, 2015, 09:46:17 pm
Setting aside, Fallout 4 is a lot closer to Far Cry than Fallout. I flat out refuse to call it an RPG any more.Well fortunately I got through lonesome road thinking the courier had amnesia. I played the whole game three times thinking that, which is maybe why I'm so annoyed that official word of God is that the courier remembered everything. And when I next play, I will ignore that nonsense. Amnesia explains so much and causes no issues at all, even in Lonesome Road.(Seriously though, it's fucked that the Courier remembers the backstory of Lonesome Road but the player never does. That creates a *huge* disconnect between player and character, and is so very easily fixed by having the Courier receive amnesia and a change of personality from their traumatic head wound. Fuck the word-of-god.)
Actually you can go through the entirety of Lonesome road completely denying any knowledge of anything that happened, making it seem like Ulysses is misblaming The Courier for something they didn't do and too far gone to accept otherwise. You chose to make it the Courier's backstory by picking those dialogue options that have them acknowledge it. There are several instances in the game where you can make dialogue that hints at The Courier's past, but if you don't pick it then it's not your Courier's backstory.
This disconnect between player and character is something Obsidian seem to enjoy exploring (KoToR 2 did something similar, your character goes the majority of the game knowing about things and hinting at things through dialogue options which we, the player, cannot yet know about. There are several times where you decide the way past events played out in dialogue or flashbacks in that game).
FD: Three was essentially turn based with pausing. Literally no FPS skill necessary. My understanding is you don't have to aim well in KOTOR either, despite being "real time".
But maybe I should try a high AGI/PER VATS only run in 4. With all these drugs it may not be so tough as I'm suggesting. Playing NV without manually sniping is rough though (less so with 10 END)
EDIT: I really am enjoying the game though, looking forward to getting home to play (and still unsure what choice to make). It's just not the RPG I'm looking for, and I'm more likely to replay Borderlands tPS with my friends than this imitation.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 26, 2015, 09:58:27 pm
Fallout 3 worked AND had stats. Want to shoot better? Get more skill.
with the disclaimer that it was fucking horribly implemented, and crippled by other things like the terrible draw-distance and disappearing bullets. If we had a system like FO3's, except in which above 90-95 skill your shots always went where you aimed (barring recoil), the draw-distance was much longer, and bullets/lasers/whatever didn't stop until they hit something or left the (much longer) draw distance? I'd love that.
The notion of "higher skill = less deviation from the barrel line" was a good compromise between two fairly different setups (moreso than Borderlands, where skills don't really touch accuracy), but as above it fell apart in implementation such that most weapons didn't work at all beyond ~75-80m.
NV almost made it worse, because they had so many scoped long range weapons but everything was basically invisible/invulnerable farther than 100-200m away.
4's shooting fuckups are different: they "fixed" the compromise by removing it and going pretty much pure (mediocre-quality) FPS, but they screwed up massively on weapon balance.
Post by: Krevsin on December 27, 2015, 02:59:03 am
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 27, 2015, 03:22:57 am
*Cone of Fire
Post by: SOLDIER First on December 27, 2015, 03:24:25 am
this is a gaming laptop
;-;
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 27, 2015, 03:28:51 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on December 27, 2015, 03:30:52 am
even mgsv on max settings runs better
Post by: Rolan7 on December 27, 2015, 03:33:40 am
And as an aside, if you don't meet the STR requirement for a gun in NV it will be inaccurate as hell. I tried using the anti-materiel rifle with like 3 STR... utterly unusable. Which is fine, even a good thing.
PER is so useless in FO4... As a rifle-user I only needed 2. The next useful one isn't until 9 (Penetration). Yeah it affects VATS accuracy, but my percentages are usually 80+ at reasonable range anyway (and there's so much cover it's usually not hard to approach).
... Oh wow, wiki confirmed my suspicion: It no longer affects enemies showing up on the compass. They do that if and only if they're alerted. I keep getting disappointed by this game. Still going to finish it, since the plot and characters are okay and it's a decent FPS shooter, but wow it's an awful Fallout.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 27, 2015, 04:16:24 am
It is choppy because Bethesda made no real effort to optimize the program, it looks worse on low settings than F3 does on Xbox.It's telling that all of the general texture mods I've seen on the Nexus thus far have been optimizations of the vanilla textures rather than high-res packs.
Post by: Sirbug on December 27, 2015, 04:23:43 am
Post by: Neonivek on December 27, 2015, 05:23:09 am
Eh, Fallout never had good combat balance and probably never will because of so many things to balance. At least it's easy and not prohibitively hard. Just there to keep me focused.
I don't think that is fair. It isn't that hard to balance, it just requires actual effort...
And not like... Skyrim balance effort (as in no effort)
Look, do you think they REALLY tried hard to make sure this game was balanced? Like... really? With like a lot of work and effort going into the balance but the options always broke it apart until they had to release the game as it is?
Post by: Mech#4 on December 27, 2015, 05:29:50 am
What could be a new enemy above Super Mutants or Power Armour wearing enemies?
Post by: Flying Dice on December 27, 2015, 05:38:59 am
Post by: Sirbug on December 27, 2015, 06:51:24 am
You can't reasonably account to all the guns and melee stuff player character can have or fail to have at any given spot. It's physically impossible.Eh, Fallout never had good combat balance and probably never will because of so many things to balance. At least it's easy and not prohibitively hard. Just there to keep me focused.
I don't think that is fair. It isn't that hard to balance, it just requires actual effort...
And not like... Skyrim balance effort (as in no effort)
Look, do you think they REALLY tried hard to make sure this game was balanced? Like... really? With like a lot of work and effort going into the balance but the options always broke it apart until they had to release the game as it is?
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 27, 2015, 10:47:19 am
The wiki says that skill reduces sway in NV as well.
And as an aside, if you don't meet the STR requirement for a gun in NV it will be inaccurate as hell. I tried using the anti-materiel rifle with like 3 STR... utterly unusable. Which is fine, even a good thing.
There's a massive difference in 'sway' and the cone of fire in Fallout 3.
With NV, as long as you're aiming you can still see where the gun's pointing. Yeah, it'll move back and forth as per 'sway', but if your sights are lined up on target when you pull the trigger, you're going to hit it.
In 3, the sniper rifle, which is one of the few guns you can use the sights on, would commonly miss after you took the time to line up a shot because the bullet would not go where the sights pointed to, at least at lower Small Guns skill.
Post by: Krevsin on December 27, 2015, 11:02:40 am
True for NV, but in 3 your accuracy outside of VATS was also impacted heavily by your skills, if you had low skill the weapon would shake everywhere, and the CoF* was much larger, if you had high skill then the shake was severely mitigated and the CoF was reduced as well.Wrong, your weapon moved and swayed in NV.
*Cone of Fire
In FO3 the game just arbitrarily decided that you missed without giving you any indication, as there was no real iron sights system in place. And like I said, the shooting worked just fine outside of VATS even if you didn't invest into the gun skills.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 27, 2015, 11:28:26 am
Ah yeah that's an important distinction. I think I like the NV system better, even though the FO3 system is frankly more realistic. In real life, I couldn't rely on my perception of a rifle sight to be correct. I wouldn't be looking correctly, or brace correctly, and might pull instead of squeeze etc.The wiki says that skill reduces sway in NV as well.
And as an aside, if you don't meet the STR requirement for a gun in NV it will be inaccurate as hell. I tried using the anti-materiel rifle with like 3 STR... utterly unusable. Which is fine, even a good thing.
There's a massive difference in 'sway' and the cone of fire in Fallout 3.
With NV, as long as you're aiming you can still see where the gun's pointing. Yeah, it'll move back and forth as per 'sway', but if your sights are lined up on target when you pull the trigger, you're going to hit it.
In 3, the sniper rifle, which is one of the few guns you can use the sights on, would commonly miss after you took the time to line up a shot because the bullet would not go where the sights pointed to, at least at lower Small Guns skill.
And the NV system lets a skilled player overcome an unskilled character to pull off skilled shots, which breaks character to an extent... But at least it's relatively difficult to shoot with the unskilled character, and damage is still affected. Idunno, it's probably fine. I guess what I want is that an FPS-unskilled or relaxing player be *able* to enjoy the game, not that a FPS-skilled player have no advantage at all.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 27, 2015, 11:31:51 am
e: Rolan, that's what VATS is and should be there for: a way for someone who can't into FPS (or doesn't want to) to play the game. The problem is that it's too easy to minmax into either perfect accuracy forever (as in previous games) or the crit-monster LUK build of 4, and that it's practically useless if you don't. The main drawback outside of those is that it has an abysmal range, but I'm sort of okay with that being a thing.
The shift towards super-slow bullet-time VATS was, IMO, ultimately a bad one. Bethesda should have cribbed from PN and offered two modes: the old pause version, and straight-up bullettime that served the same role while being reliant on player skill rather than character skill.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 27, 2015, 11:54:57 am
Yes I do realize that from a development standpoint smaller interiors mean (slightly) shorter loading times and more locations can be done, but for crying out loud everything just feels so small.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on December 27, 2015, 12:08:27 pm
I miss the expansive interiors of Fallout 3, I hate walking into a decent sized building and having the vast majority of it be caved in or otherwise inaccessible, I don't like the tiny subway tunnels with itty-bitty connecting serviceways. C'mon Bethesda, the point is to make the game more everything, not to strip it down to the bare bones and paint it with bright colors.
Yes I do realize that from a development standpoint smaller interiors mean (slightly) shorter loading times and more locations can be done, but for crying out loud everything just feels so small.
Are you sure you aren't thinking of fallout 3? I remember all the cramped and blocked off places forcing walking through cramped subway tunnels to enter a building that seems like it seems like it should've collapsed with how much infrastructure is broken down.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 27, 2015, 12:11:54 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 27, 2015, 12:15:36 pm
For FD: Capital Building, the tricycle plant, the nuka-cola plant, multiple Vaults, Fort Constantine, the dish arrays, etc. They all looked an awful lot alike tho', Beth is starting to look like one of the laziest devs ever where tilesets are concerned.
Post by: Grim Portent on December 27, 2015, 12:21:24 pm
Post by: Edmus on December 27, 2015, 04:43:07 pm
I think I might load the save and finish on the side of the Brotherhood. It's hurt my soul siding with the stupid railroad.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on December 27, 2015, 04:46:14 pm
The tl;dr of Fallout 4's main quest and factions. (https://youtu.be/MhLqPfAylF4?t=10)
Post by: miauw62 on December 27, 2015, 06:54:46 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on December 27, 2015, 08:31:18 pm
I was able to slaughter the railroad and dance a merry jig upon their bones as I cannibalized their bodies, I was able to get over blowing the brotherhood out of the sky with only mild regrets, but something about the institute really hurt. :(
In other news Pain Train is possibly my favorite perk. Being able to ram my way through corridors full of enemies and watch them crumble at my feet is very satisfying. I even killed a Super Mutant Suicider by crashing into him and knocking him dead.
Post by: Edmus on December 27, 2015, 08:32:12 pm
Mild spoilers, but you're going to be equally disappointed when you side with the BoS.Not reading it, but I wasn't disappointed with the railroad ending. It was about what I expected, nothing super flash. I just don't feel like I should have helped them win, because they are shit. :P
The tl;dr of Fallout 4's main quest and factions. (https://youtu.be/MhLqPfAylF4?t=10)
That and Danse stops talking to you once you betray the Brotherhood if you romance him. If I have to choose between dick-head-deacon and Danse, I'll go Danse. 'sides, the Brotherhood aren't wrong, they are just overly ruthless, and the game loves painting them negatively.
At least with BoS I'll get to see
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Krevsin on December 28, 2015, 01:39:40 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Finished the game with the Minutemen. The "Defend the Castle" quest was quite fun and overall the ending felt more satisfying than the BoS ending. The wiki says that the BoS should hate my guts now but they're not. They're just kinda there.
Post by: SOLDIER First on December 28, 2015, 02:45:03 am
-i'm numb to the shitty graphics setting now. sometimes in an extended conversation i notice the 8-bit shadow textures but that's it.
-sarcasm is so much fun
-do not ditch the laser musket.
-do not ditch the laser musket. upgrade it to three cranks and basically anything without a prefix or suffix is disintegrated.
-why would anyone in their right mind use pipe weapons so much except their availability, literally anything is better in the commonwealth? goddamn raiders, man.
-i've spent fifteen minutes with piper and my ss is now gay for her
-i also love piper
-piper is the best character in diamond city until nick shows up
Post by: MaximumZero on December 28, 2015, 02:57:06 am
-snip-Almost 80 hours into my save at this point, and I've never even bothered to find Nick. I guess I'm not all that invested in the story (which honestly worries me a bit, given that I'm a real life dad...) I've spent just about all of my time exploring and building settlements, story be damned. I'm the mayor of Beantown now. That said, I'm seriously considering starting over because there's a mod on the Nexus that allows you to clear out a bunch of the shrubs and broken down houses and stuff in settlements, but only works on a new save.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 28, 2015, 03:52:52 am
Post by: Krevsin on December 28, 2015, 04:30:35 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Here's more petty niggling (Because gods know I have a lot of that in store for this game): Why the hell does the paper look like it's hand written? I mean they clearly have a fully functional printing press, so why doesn't it use a font?
Likewise, why does the Survival Guide's cover look like something that's been drawn by a four year-old instead of an actual book? It was supposedly printed, not hand-made, so why does the cover look so bloody stupid? I know this is the post apocalypse and that you don't exactly have graphical designers on hand, but at least make the thing look halfway decent. It looked fine in New Vegas and FO3 without looking like it's been professionally designed.
Spoiler: comparison (click to show/hide)
Post by: Aseaheru on December 28, 2015, 04:38:45 am
Post by: Krevsin on December 28, 2015, 04:52:13 am
In a post apocalyptic setting, you want the knowledge to be as concentrated as possible because people are in imminent danger and need that information to survive their day-to-day life. Besides, Moira doesn't strike me as someone who intends to maximize their profit by serializing what is in her mind the key to helping people survive.
Basically what I'm trying to say is it makes no sense. Also the "drawn by a four year old with a pen" cover looks ridiculous.
Post by: MarcAFK on December 28, 2015, 06:00:51 am
Marge has seen better days.
Post by: Virtz on December 28, 2015, 06:10:58 am
Gotta have that episodic content.Also why on earth would you split what is supposed to be an all-in-one, indispensable guide to surviving in the wastes into multiple books? It makes no bloody sense to me.Spoiler: comparison (click to show/hide)
Is it even confirmed this wasteland survival guide is the same one? Like to me it looks like something Piper and her sister could've done, since they can reprint copies, and have a reason for doing issues. Piper's sister could've been the one doing the cover. Could be they're just reprinting parts of a pre-war survival guide, and because they can't make a printing press draw, they just have the sister do the cover for each.
Like I wouldn't put it past Moira to draw that kind of cover either considering she's a child-like moron, but the issues thing would be out of place. The survival guide itself would be out of place as well, though, since that was D.C.. Plus it may as well have been filled with nonsense considering she just took the word of a random stranger for it. You even had the option of feeding her bullshit IIRC.
Wait, that guide showed up in NV? Are you REALLY sure it was Moira's and not just a pre-war one? Like it was a skill book in both FO3 and NV, right? That'd hardly be useful for you in FO3 where you basically wrote the damn thing. And the notion that nobody's come up with something better in the West, the place where cities have been built anew out of actual concrete, for 200 years is just retarded.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 28, 2015, 06:33:01 am
Mild spoilers, but you're going to be equally disappointed when you side with the BoS.Not reading it, but I wasn't disappointed with the railroad ending. It was about what I expected, nothing super flash. I just don't feel like I should have helped them win, because they are shit. :P
The tl;dr of Fallout 4's main quest and factions. (https://youtu.be/MhLqPfAylF4?t=10)
That and Danse stops talking to you once you betray the Brotherhood if you romance him. If I have to choose between dick-head-deacon and Danse, I'll go Danse. 'sides, the Brotherhood aren't wrong, they are just overly ruthless, and the game loves painting them negatively.
At least with BoS I'll get to seein action again, which is always fun.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's no article, it's a movie clip!
*is shot*
Post by: MarcAFK on December 28, 2015, 06:35:25 am
Post by: Krevsin on December 28, 2015, 06:49:26 am
It uses the same game model as in FO3 and the wiki says it traveled to the west coast because it was so popular.
Wait, that guide showed up in NV? Are you REALLY sure it was Moira's and not just a pre-war one? Like it was a skill book in both FO3 and NV, right? That'd hardly be useful for you in FO3 where you basically wrote the damn thing. And the notion that nobody's come up with something better in the West, the place where cities have been built anew out of actual concrete, for 200 years is just retarded.
The notion that something like this wouldn't be made is not as outlandish as you may think. People generally don't come up with guides for stuff they think is self-evident and for most post-war US residents survival is either self-evident or they die.
Like I wouldn't put it past Moira to draw that kind of cover either considering she's a child-like moron, but the issues thing would be out of place. The survival guide itself would be out of place as well, though, since that was D.C.. Plus it may as well have been filled with nonsense considering she just took the word of a random stranger for it. You even had the option of feeding her bullshit IIRC.Yeah but the canon says the Wanderer didn't feed her bullshit.
Is it even confirmed this wasteland survival guide is the same one? Like to me it looks like something Piper and her sister could've done, since they can reprint copies, and have a reason for doing issues. Piper's sister could've been the one doing the cover. Could be they're just reprinting parts of a pre-war survival guide, and because they can't make a printing press draw, they just have the sister do the cover for each.Pre-war survival guides don't teach you about ghouls, deathclaws, the peculiarities of postwar game and crops, raiders et cetera, so it'd be pretty bloody useless. here's all of the covers (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Wasteland_Survival_Guide_%28Fallout_4%29#Cover_images).
It's definitely a post-war magazine though. Now it is possible that this has been done by the Wright sisters, but it's still stupid that it's serialized and that they for some reason cannot use fonts for the cover.
Post by: Teneb on December 28, 2015, 08:12:33 am
Post by: Flying Dice on December 28, 2015, 08:26:29 am
He doesn't want spoilers from the new Star Wars either, you asshole!Kidding aside, I'd honestly rather have had The Search for More Money instead of Episode VII.
Post by: Jiokuy on December 28, 2015, 09:23:26 am
As a designer, I've picked it apart and tried to learn from the bad parts as much as I can.
But, as flawed as it is, I still enjoyed it for 120 hours. (much less than previous games by Beth, but still)
Why is it fun. I mean power armor feels nice, the shooting is pretty solid, although it meshes poorly with weapon damage. (FPS + hit target 10 times in head for a kill, perhaps not the best genera mesh there)
Edit: I rambled here spoilered away
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
What did fallout 4 do well, better than another game?
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 28, 2015, 09:43:08 am
It's settlement mechanics are pretty solid, though the Radiant Quest elements tied into them are abysmal.
The weapon modding system is decently well developed, but fails to really even the playing field, the 10mm will always be better than the pipe gun as a pistol, the hunting rifle will always be better than the pipe gun as a rifle, and the higher-tier weapons just leave everything in the dust.
Power Armor is decently well done, but does not distinguish itself from Halo or Mech Assault 2 (where most of the basic ideas came from.)
The companion system is okay, but has been handled much better elsewhere (like just about any Bioware title.)
The conversation system is almost entirely a bad deal, only the ability to quit conversations was really an improvement.
Dynamic content generation (the legendary loot system in this case) is very weak and could use major expansion, Diablo and other titles have done this in vastly superior ways.
The perk system is almost okay, but really needed some more thought, having to sink 6 levels of perks into lockpick and hacking (three each, with level gating) is a major issue here.
The game itself is not bad, but the majority of its mechanics are weak or half-assed, and those that are strong are not innovative (i.e. they do nothing special.)
Post by: Telgin on December 28, 2015, 09:56:16 am
1. Power armor was handled pretty well I think. The fusion core economy is annoying at first, but is actually a meaningful choice, at least early on.
2. Combat outside of VATS feels a lot better than FO3 or NV. I very rarely ever bothered to even try combat outside of VATS in FO3, and only if I was out of AP in NV.
3. Settlement building is included without mods.
Most of the other parts of the game felt stagnant or like they regressed some from previous games.
Post by: Jiokuy on December 28, 2015, 09:56:38 am
I think this is mostly because I very much enjoy that sort of stuff, and Fallout 4 just does it in a way that feels tedious, and lacks meaningful choice. (too sleep deprived to elaborate atm sorry, also more interested in keeping discussion on the good parts atm)
Post by: Telgin on December 28, 2015, 11:27:10 am
Incidentally, money feels almost completely pointless to me in Fallout 4 too. I think I've bought something from traders 3 times. Resources are generally so plentiful that there's no point in trading. The few times I did trade was generally to get rid of all of the psycho and mentats that I pick up in every other bathroom.
I later realized that I could have just converted all of the drugs I found at a chemistry station for experience points first, but they're still valuable to sell after that I guess.
Post by: nenjin on December 28, 2015, 11:38:07 am
I dunno. Like most Beth games, most of their systems aren't effective due to internal balance issues in the game. That is almost always corrected by mods.
So settlement building will work better I think when drops are toned down, money is made scarcer, survival elements are in (seriously Beth, how many fucking years will it take before you actually add some survival elements to the game? Survival mode just being harder than regular modes is a fucking joke) and so on. Ultimately though, settlements are there for people who want it. There's nothing in the game that will ever convince a solo, lone wolf player they need to invest in them. It would be stupid if the game actually required settlement building to get along for everyone, after all.
That said, I'm compelled to put walls around every settlement I encounter, whether I plan on developing it or not. And then my time invested is immediately not worth it when I watch enemies walk right through a solid wall. ><
After about 60 hours, I think this is the most polished game Bethesda has put out. Considering how many Beth games have devolved compared to previous ones, I think FO4 actually has more original systems added to it than any of the other games as well. It's also the most stable Beth game I've played to date as well.
I'm not sure where I stand on dungeons. Traditionally Beth games most abused feature, there seems to be real lack of them in FO4. What ones there are have a unique feeling to it and the tileset, but they're generally pretty small. Most of the points of interest seem mainly focused on the outside. I mean shit, I went to the ArcJet facility which looks huge from the outside and was like "Ok, Giant Robot Factory, GO!" Turns out it was two floors where half of the level was obstructed. I assume there's more to that dungeon in particular (or maybe not, it says it's cleared after killing 5 Protectotrons), but compared to FO3 or NV's dungeons, these things are tiny.
Post by: Telgin on December 28, 2015, 12:16:30 pm
Quote
Ultimately though, settlements are there for people who want it. There's nothing in the game that will ever convince a solo, lone wolf player they need to invest in them. It would be stupid if the game actually required settlement building to get along for everyone, after all.
I agree here. Considering it's a new feature that's a substantial departure from previous games, I don't think it should be necessary in any fashion. I just... kind of wish there were more real benefits to doing it. So far as I can tell, the only tangible benefit is that you can farm tatos for absurd amounts of adhesive, or maybe so you can get stuff to sell to traders for junk to scrap for weapon and armor mods? I admit that I don't know how useful scavenging stations are. I just usually found all of the junk I needed while roaming around, so the extra junk feels redundant.
Then again, I guess the artillery could be useful if you built enough batteries in your settlements. The other thing I could see possibly being useful is using them as staging points or pit stops for traveling, but fast travel makes that irrelevant...
I dunno. I enjoy the settlement building to an extent since I like sim games and it reminds me of that. I just wish it was more fleshed out.
Quote
It's also the most stable Beth game I've played to date as well.
It does feel more stable than New Vegas did at least, and even if New Vegas wasn't made directly by Bethesda I count it since it used the same engine. I can't really comment on any others though, since I played FO3 on a console where it never crashed, and I don't play TES games. Well, I did play Oblivion, but I can't really remember much about it.
FO4 does have an annoying tendency to crash around Diamond City and Goodneighbor for me though. It's pretty predictable. If I start walking around them, the game will start stuttering terribly. If I try to keep walking while it stutters, it crashes frequently. If I stop and let it sort out its major malfunction, then it usually recovers and the stuttering stops.
My guess is that it's something to do with the dynamic landscape loading. So, presumably, as you're walking around it's trying to decide which parts of the map to load, and around those cities it does a poor job of it. I'm guessing it's crashing because I'm moving into areas it hasn't loaded completely. By letting it finish loading the area, things go back to normal.
Really though, that's the only glaring gameplay bug I've run into other than the teleportation while using VATS thing. That was weird.
New Vegas was substantially more buggy. Graphical glitches and crashes were not uncommon in it.
Post by: Virtz on December 28, 2015, 01:12:53 pm
-The shooting was way better than in FO3 and NV. Having enemies actually react to getting shot and then get a death animation before going into full ragdoll mode made it a lot more satisfying than the fucking nothing you got in 3 and NV. Certain enemies even have special reactions, such as protectrons lighting on fire, or synths and ghouls falling apart but still coming at you despite loss of limbs. The different enemy types in general feel more different than they did previously. You may say this minor stuff, but in a game where most of your non-travelling time is spent shooting shit, it really helps when it's not the most boring thing in the world.
-The AI feels less dumb than it did in FO3, I feel. I can't really back this up with objective observations, it just felt more like they were trying different things, taking cover and such, and not just going in a straight line at you (unless they were meleeists).
-No more weapon degradation.
-Weapon and armor upgrades.
-The world is way less goof-ball stupid than it was in FO3. And some of the lore felt like a giant middle-finger to FO3 as well, which I can get behind.
-The story branching is better than FO3, but not as good as NV. Same with companions.
-The level-scaling is more down-played than in FO3. I feel there's areas more or less dangerous rather than it all being a cookie-cutter world that wants me to go anywhere.
-Less bullet sponge. There's still some enemies that can take a lot of punishment, but it's nowhere near as bad as high level FO3 or even NV.
-Part-based equipment. It might not be all that interesting for us as the player, but it helps create variety among enemies when you see a ragtag bunch wearing only parts of a complete set.
-Giving a use for all the junk, whether by crafting or settlement building.
-Putting the power back in power armour.
Post by: Krevsin on December 28, 2015, 01:21:35 pm
The fast travel system is garbage, money becomes a non-issue hillariously fast, buying stuff from merchants never happens because of how much equipment, ammo and healing supplies you get from
Basically it boils down to two mechanical issues (leaving aside poor writing):
- Lack of scarcity
- Fast Travel System
What makes this worse is that all Bethesda titles since (and including) Oblivion have had these exact two issues and they only seem to get more pronounced with each game. Issues that can and are easily fixed by modders on a regular basis.
Fallout 4 also brings along its own, new share of problems, most notably the dialogue system, which cannot be fixed by mods (blank slate and voiced protagonist do not mix well) but can only be mended slightly, and the fact that all quests end up with you going to a place and murderating everyone.
Post by: SOLDIER First on December 28, 2015, 01:30:22 pm
Post by: Krevsin on December 28, 2015, 01:36:53 pm
I think they look nifty.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 28, 2015, 02:32:49 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 28, 2015, 02:34:45 pm
TBH the FO4 settlements are worse than the settlement mods because they constantly bitch at you to defend them from three raiders right now and everyone hates you if you don't.
And sometimes those raiders will just kill everyone... Like it didn't matter what your people were packing, they died.
Post by: SOLDIER First on December 28, 2015, 03:17:42 pm
Post by: Krevsin on December 28, 2015, 03:42:50 pm
TBH the FO4 settlements are worse than the settlement mods because they constantly bitch at you to defend them from three raiders right now and everyone hates you if you don't.Oh dear lord THOSE kinds of missions.
SOmetimes they are cool. Like when your ultrafort gets attacked by a bunch of raiders.
But most of the time it's just some backwater farming place and you really really wish you could just either send a squad of minutemen or have the defences that are in place take care of it.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 28, 2015, 04:51:35 pm
I wish we got to use grenades... In VATS, I mean. Still pissed that that was apparently a feature on launch, and got removed for who-knows-why.
Post by: nenjin on December 28, 2015, 05:21:08 pm
That said, fighting guys in a corridor is still just them dog piling in to kill you.
Post by: TheDarkStar on December 28, 2015, 06:39:30 pm
Spending a lot of my time sniping from up on high, I've watched the AI flank in groups while one guy tries to keep my attention.
That said, fighting guys in a corridor is still just them dog piling in to kill you.
Once I got a .50 sniper rifle, I could take down pretty much anything as long as I stopped by a shop every once in a while to get ammo. When I got a Gauss rifle and fully upgraded it, I used the .50 for basically everything except taking down Deathclaws and people in power armor - because I had the Legendary modifier that made it shoot faster, I could use the sniper rifle for close range.
On my current save, I'm actually taking a different route. I'm going pure stealth/melee (which has it's own problems, such as a lack of early weapons and no way to kill people without taking fire for several seconds) on Survival difficulty because guns are too powerful.
Post by: Flying Dice on December 28, 2015, 07:04:30 pm
The AI seems to use grenades if you're alive. Constantly until that is no longer the case. But yeah, they do often take cover themselves, and the grenades keep the player from being secure in cover.Hey, look on the bright side: it's not like vanilla Clear Sky AI and their infinite feet-seeking smart grenades.
I wish we got to use grenades... In VATS, I mean. Still pissed that that was apparently a feature on launch, and got removed for who-knows-why.
Post by: Fniff on December 28, 2015, 11:59:17 pm
Again though, from what I've read if a low level raider takes cover behind a burning car and a higher level one is near by, they'll actually yell at them to get away from it.That's a hilarious image.
Boss Raider: Let's carve this bitch up like a tur... Key... What the fuck are you doing?
Lowly Raider: Taking cover, brah! Tactics 101!
Boss Raider: Your 'cover' is on fire.
Lowly Raider: The smoke makes it harder for them to see me!
Boss Raider: But... Okay, you know what? Stay there.
Lowly Raider: 10-4, buddy! No way this can fail!
Boss Raider: Yeah, except all the ways it can, will, and *explosion* has.
Post by: SOLDIER First on December 29, 2015, 12:06:11 am
behind a ladder
and it worked. Either I was aiming in just the wrong spot or ladders are secretly also ablative forcefield generators.
Post by: Fniff on December 29, 2015, 12:13:21 am
The best thing I've seen an enemy do is when a.. a... Whatever Skinny Malone's mooks are called took coverLowly Raider: Ladders! They're like, nature's bulletproof vests!
behind a ladder
and it worked. Either I was aiming in just the wrong spot or ladders are secretly also ablative forcefield generators.
Boss Raider: I'd call you a dumbass, but you're always right. God help us.
Post by: SOLDIER First on December 29, 2015, 12:18:00 am
Post by: MaximumZero on December 29, 2015, 02:52:48 am
The best thing I've seen an enemy do is when a.. a... Whatever Skinny Malone's mooks are called took coverEmphasis on Skinny.
behind a ladder
and it worked. Either I was aiming in just the wrong spot or ladders are secretly also ablative forcefield generators.
Post by: SOLDIER First on December 29, 2015, 02:59:51 am
Sidenote: i love piper so much
Post by: Glloyd on January 04, 2016, 09:51:25 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on January 04, 2016, 09:55:59 pm
HAHi have officially reached max relationship with piper but i failed the check. ;-;
Sidenote: i love piper so much
didn't savescum, though, because piper is so sweet. i can't do it. this means too much.
andanyway and i can always get with someone else, like, say, paladin lightyear
Post by: Reudh on January 05, 2016, 12:14:37 am
I just beat that quest where you help Travis get some confidence, and I'm actually really disappointed in the results. Not only was nervous and non confident Travis more funny and unique, he also had a lot more lines recorded than new Travis. Before I had Diamond City radio on all the time, now it's just kinda boring. The music's good, but the best part was the little interlude where Travis would make some offbeat joke about the artist or the song. Wish I could just go beat Travis up and make him lose his confidence again because by the time I noticed it, it was far too late to revert my save.
Open console:
ResetQuest ms14
set radiodctravisconfident to 0
Voila, Travis is now a wimp again.
Post by: Glloyd on January 05, 2016, 01:53:16 am
EDIT: In other news, I got to the first flirt speech check with Piper, and it went a little like this. "Hold on there Piper, we'll continue this conversation in a second after I put on my summer shorts, chug a bottle of beer and shoot up some day tripper. Ah, there we go, 'yeah girl, spending time with you is great'."
Post by: SOLDIER First on January 05, 2016, 04:45:45 am
Post by: umiman on January 05, 2016, 04:48:21 am
Post by: Kaje on January 05, 2016, 02:49:26 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on January 05, 2016, 03:02:39 pm
Post by: Glloyd on January 05, 2016, 04:23:13 pm
I go through all my serious companion conversations drunk simply because it's hilarious listening to the MC "hasten" the conversations.
That's another part that bothers me about the voiceacting. I read faster than the guy speaks, so I skip through a lot of dialogue and thus end up hearing "mhmm, yup, yeah, alright, preach brother, you know it" wayy too much. That and in some of the lines with Piper I could hear the microphone in his dialogue, which is never a good thing.
Diamond City, the Dugout Inn, talk to the barman.
It didn't trigger for me right away, it triggered after I talked to them, I was outside of the bar and talked to someone (Piper perhaps?) and they said that the Bobrov brothers wanted to see me.
Post by: Krevsin on January 05, 2016, 04:38:14 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on January 05, 2016, 04:39:00 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on January 05, 2016, 05:25:40 pm
Post by: scriver on January 05, 2016, 05:47:51 pm
Theory: They're actually robots and their speech patterns is programmed like that by the disgruntled head of the Institute linguist department.
Post by: SOLDIER First on January 05, 2016, 05:51:08 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 05, 2016, 05:58:54 pm
Also the Shen girl and people like Moriarty from F3. People in the post-apocalyptic future gets around a lot, it seems. Maybe they think accents are genetic.Well, at least one robot was programmed with a foreign accent...
Theory: They're actually robots and their speech patterns is programmed like that by the disgruntled head of the Institute linguist department.
Post by: Neonivek on January 05, 2016, 06:10:42 pm
It has been 200 years... Why does it feel like this takes place 20 years after the fact?
Wasteland? They are establishing trade routs, deals between colonies, trying to develop new survival techniques...
Fallout 4? Dirt farming and scavenging.
I am not bringing this attention to poop on Fallout 4, only to say that they need to step up their world building. The setting is no longer a scavenging scenario... people are settling so work on that. Make Fallout 5 or Fallout 4 New Expansion for full price alive.
Post by: NullForceOmega on January 05, 2016, 06:14:07 pm
Post by: Glloyd on January 05, 2016, 06:46:32 pm
EDIT: Plus the more hostile environment of the east coast. Because apparently super mutants and
And here I am rambling, I'm putting way too much thought into this.
Post by: Flying Dice on January 05, 2016, 08:11:24 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 05, 2016, 08:22:32 pm
It'd be a fun thing if 2287 America was raided or threatened by groups from Africa/South America/Northern America/the Pacific Islands like that one book series with the Haida raiders and the British raiders in Post apocalyptic USA.
"Let's cross the entire Atlantic just raid the nuclear wasteland across the ocean then go back home!"
But yeah, what FD said.
It never was realistic or intended to be.
Post by: SOLDIER First on January 05, 2016, 08:31:30 pm
Post by: scriver on January 06, 2016, 02:58:58 am
In my mind I handwave it as the east coast got so fucked by the nukes that there was next to noone left there, and only over time people filtered back into the eastern seaboard from surrounding areas, which is why the west coast is so much more developed. I know that's not a good explanation, but it's better than the lack of one we get from Bethesda.
It's also not supported by the games. Diamond City, for example, was founded in 2130, just 60 years after the War. And the time we experience the setting is another 150 years after that.
Post by: Putnam on January 06, 2016, 03:19:40 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on January 06, 2016, 03:23:30 am
Post by: Glloyd on January 06, 2016, 03:53:07 am
Post by: Rolan7 on January 06, 2016, 04:21:37 am
But yeah, it's not hard sci-fi. It doesn't have to be realistic.
Post by: Mech#4 on January 06, 2016, 05:13:31 am
Post by: MasterFancyPants on January 06, 2016, 05:14:47 am
Post by: BFEL on January 06, 2016, 08:03:54 am
in fallout new vegas you are a tribal vault-hunting cyborg mailperson who set off a bunch of nukes (twice), helped a bunch of ungrateful fucks take over the hoover dam for muh power, got shot in the head and lived with probably no repercussions whatsoever, and is gay for their own brain
TO THE SIG VAULT!
Post by: Neonivek on January 06, 2016, 09:05:51 am
Someone put it quite well earlier: treating Fallout as a realistic survival RPG is a mistake. It's not, never has been. It's an RPG set in what a stereotyped 1950s thought that a post-apocalyptic world would be like. Complaining about it being illogical and overblown is like leveling the same complaints at Mad Max or like the people who whine about difficulty and low carry weight in STALKER games, it's rather missing the point. There's a lot that Bethesda mucks up, but this is one point where I think they've hit it spot on.
The thing is... Wasteland is even WORSE off then Fallout 4 by far. Mad Max actually justifies its setting by not only making it almost unlivable but also by continuously moving the setting with the implication that yes people sometimes did recover once Max himself left.
Fallout 4 the issue isn't realism the issue is flat out world building. The world is flat and lifeless.
Wasteland 2 shames Fallout 4 not because "Ohh it is so much more realistic" but because it actually bothered to do some world building. In the first few minutes of the game, not even at the hour mark, I was more invested in the world of Wasteland then the entirety of Fallout 4.
Yet even IF we accept Fallout 4 is just copying the idea of post apoc... The setting is still advancing, we see people farming and yet there isn't much on that (nor any explanation for how their dirt farming is so effective...). Honestly Fallout 4 is a new game about settling the wasteland... why not work with it?
Post by: Girlinhat on January 06, 2016, 09:08:23 am
Post by: Krevsin on January 06, 2016, 09:13:21 am
At least FO4 explains why it never happened inthe Commonwealth. The CPG was an attempt but it collapsed due to
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
and nobody's tried again since until you come along. This is why Fallout 4 is more about rebuilding than FO3 (which is about waging war for a resource nobody in the gameworld really struggles to get apart from like 3 guys) and FNV (which is more about living in the rebuilt postnuke society and changing it).
Post by: BFEL on January 06, 2016, 10:27:52 am
The CPG was an attempt but it collapsed due toSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also WOOT new title.
Post by: Krevsin on January 06, 2016, 11:40:11 am
The CPG was an attempt but it collapsed due toSpoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also WOOT new title.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: werty892 on January 06, 2016, 09:31:53 pm
Post by: Telgin on January 06, 2016, 10:28:31 pm
It's probably all been said 200 pages ago, but:
Spoiler: Ending Spoilers (click to show/hide)
I really wanted to like this game, but at this point I'm seriously just hoping for an improved New Vegas-esque follow up to it.
Post by: Glloyd on January 06, 2016, 10:32:12 pm
Post by: Telgin on January 06, 2016, 10:42:44 pm
In any case, when I say I want New Vegas running on Fallout 4, more precisely I'm just hoping for an iteration that improves on some of the glaring issues (conversation system, for example) and with a new and hopefully better story. The location doesn't matter so much.
Preaching to the choir though, I know.
Post by: Egan_BW on January 06, 2016, 10:48:36 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on January 06, 2016, 10:53:33 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on January 06, 2016, 10:59:10 pm
Post by: MarcAFK on January 06, 2016, 10:59:48 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flying Dice on January 06, 2016, 11:01:17 pm
Hey, I have never played an Obsidian game but have complete confidence in their game-make-sorcery. :P tongue best smileyNew Vegas was buggier and more prone to crashing than FO3 or the same-timeframe TES games. They made an RPG less stable and bugger than Bethesda's.
Post by: NullForceOmega on January 06, 2016, 11:15:13 pm
Edit: More fun to experience minus the Liberty Prime walk. I have never enjoyed a set-piece sequence as much as Libby going nuclear on a bunch of Enclave punks.
Post by: Reudh on January 06, 2016, 11:18:13 pm
Hey, I have never played an Obsidian game but have complete confidence in their game-make-sorcery. :P tongue best smileyNew Vegas was buggier and more prone to crashing than FO3 or the same-timeframe TES games. They made an RPG less stable and bugger than Bethesda's.
They were also only given ten months to finish it.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on January 07, 2016, 12:43:04 am
Hey, I have never played an Obsidian game but have complete confidence in their game-make-sorcery. :P tongue best smileyNew Vegas was buggier and more prone to crashing than FO3 or the same-timeframe TES games. They made an RPG less stable and bugger than Bethesda's.
They were also only given ten months to finish it.
Thought it was Eight Months? But yeah it was a very short timeframe and they managed to get everything done for the storyline. (Not counting all the stuff that got cut because of it.. like playing past the battle for the dam)
Post by: Neonivek on January 07, 2016, 06:53:44 am
Post by: TheBiggerFish on January 07, 2016, 06:54:12 am
Yes but remember that NV was originally intended as an expansion.It was? Wow.
Post by: Neonivek on January 07, 2016, 06:57:26 am
Yes but remember that NV was originally intended as an expansion.It was? Wow.
Well that was what I always heard.
Also Honest Hearts for New Vegas? Originally intended to be in the base game but wasn't finished in time... Judging by how it turned out, maybe they should have left it unfinished :P
Post by: GiglameshDespair on January 07, 2016, 07:07:37 am
it was announced at E3 as "not adirect sequel", rather than DLC. No where I can see seesm to be calling it DLC, or even suggesting it was once intended to be DLC.
It had 18 months of development, not 8.
Post by: Reudh on January 07, 2016, 02:01:10 pm
Hey, I have never played an Obsidian game but have complete confidence in their game-make-sorcery. :P tongue best smileyNew Vegas was buggier and more prone to crashing than FO3 or the same-timeframe TES games. They made an RPG less stable and bugger than Bethesda's.
They were also only given ten months to finish it.
Thought it was Eight Months? But yeah it was a very short timeframe and they managed to get everything done for the storyline. (Not counting all the stuff that got cut because of it.. like playing past the battle for the dam)
Eight months actual development time, two months script writing and brainstorming from what I recall from a Josh Sawyer interview. Obsidian was also promised a massive bonus by Bethesda if FNV scored >85 on Metacritic.
It scored 84.
I dunno...
it was announced at E3 as "not adirect sequel", rather than DLC. No where I can see seesm to be calling it DLC, or even suggesting it was once intended to be DLC.
It had 18 months of development, not 8.
Bethesda's always insisted on their TES games (and probably wanted to inherit that trend) that no direct sequels should occur - the only caveat is it occurs in the same universe in a relatively similar timeframe.
Post by: Putnam on January 07, 2016, 09:37:04 pm
Skyrim also takes place 200 years after the rest, so close in time isn't really that necessary either.
Post by: Reudh on January 07, 2016, 11:28:16 pm
Bethesda's always made every ES game AFAIK, except for some mobile ports and Online, which takes place a very good chunk of time before the rest (800 years before the main series games IIRC, so about 400 before Redguard).
Skyrim also takes place 200 years after the rest, so close in time isn't really that necessary either.
Though that's relatively close for a fantasy universe. I doubt we'll see TES6: Hist Ships Vs KINMUNE Extreme Edition.
Post by: Sensei on January 08, 2016, 06:06:42 pm
*shudder*
(http://la.cdnmob.org/file_exchange/java_game_images/games/4/3595/real/16.jpg)
Post by: AlleeCat on January 10, 2016, 02:45:26 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on January 10, 2016, 02:53:42 pm
Post by: Teneb on January 10, 2016, 04:50:15 pm
Fallout.Nah. The more sci-fi stuff written for TES (mostly by MK) is way more
Post by: miauw62 on January 10, 2016, 04:56:53 pm
Post by: Putnam on January 10, 2016, 04:59:20 pm
Post by: Sensei on January 10, 2016, 07:41:24 pm
Probably belongs in ES thread though.
Post by: Kot on January 10, 2016, 08:12:34 pm
Post by: scriver on January 10, 2016, 08:23:32 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on January 25, 2016, 02:54:23 pm
Was walking through the federal stockpile to rescue Mrs Abernathy (again) and shot a raider in the face, expecting his head to fly off or his body to disintegrate as normal.
Instead what happened was his head glowed like it was dusting for a few seconds then he dropped to the ground with his face reduced to a bloody skull.
Made me feel kind of badass.
Post by: SOLDIER First on January 25, 2016, 04:10:49 pm
Post by: Bluexdog on January 25, 2016, 04:46:23 pm
Post by: Yoink on February 05, 2016, 11:33:10 am
Finished a quest with everyone's favourite strung-out, redheaded boozehound.
Spoiler: Cait stuff (click to show/hide)
After that was dealt with, I spent a long time screwing about encouraging the growth of my settlements.
Some needed recruitment beacons. Some needed shit like water and food. One needed to be cleanses of ghouls, which meant killing the two human settlers as well since I had a companion at that point- oh well, it's back now and better than ever.
Now, with all the settlements I've put effort into going more-or-less full steam ahead, I'm chilling at one of them towards the South-west corner of the map, sitting next to my power armour and preparing to make my first proper visit to the 'Sea. Stored most of my gear in a trunk, ditched my companion, and am about to plug in my headphones for maximum immersion.
I'm actually kind of excited to check it out for the first time, I've managed to avoid having it spoiled. :D
Post by: Levi on February 05, 2016, 11:34:43 am
Post by: Telgin on February 05, 2016, 11:45:58 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: JimboM12 on February 05, 2016, 12:04:19 pm
Then I found We Are The Minutemen on the nexus (there's a larger rehaul mod on there, but i just wanted vanilla+ mods right now) and i gotta say, I'm a lot more immersed in being the general now. The moment it hit me was when I fast traveled back to Sanctuary and passed a 4 man Minutemen patrol leaving through the main gate and the leader of the patrol stopped and said "Hey General." Such a small thing, but I actually felt like a leading member of a faction for once. Maybe not in a direct way, more like a founding godfather kinda way, but it definitely felt better then before.
The patrols scale in gear with level too, so in the beginning they only had minutemen outfits and pipe guns/short lasmuskets, but towards the mid game, I started seeing combat armor and medium leather/metal. This carries over to the spawned reinforcements from the flaregun too, they're all scaled and have the correct perks and stuff.
This mod deserves to become canon. If you like the Minutemen like me, go get it. Turn the Minutemen into an actual faction.
Post by: umiman on February 05, 2016, 12:25:07 pm
You can choose how powerful you want it to be or just turn them to nukes for the heck of it.
Post by: Glloyd on February 05, 2016, 01:21:31 pm
So, started playing this again today. Well... yesterday. I've been playing for a while. >.>
Finished a quest with everyone's favourite strung-out, redheaded boozehound.Spoiler: Cait stuff (click to show/hide)
That pretty much describes 90% of the dialogue in the game. But yeah, that example is particularly bad. It's a shame, because she's such a badass up until that point, and then you just get another good/neutral follower of which the majority are.
Post by: Flying Dice on February 05, 2016, 03:05:19 pm
Or the broadside :) OH better the artifact gunBut they're both shit. :(
Post by: Bluexdog on February 05, 2016, 03:52:00 pm
Post by: Levi on February 05, 2016, 03:59:44 pm
The best gun is the mini nuker or a fully upgraded 10mm
Yeah, what is up with that 10mm? I killed so quickly with that gun that I was starting to wonder if it was bugged.
Post by: Krevsin on February 05, 2016, 04:09:04 pm
Plus Cait's accent is cringey in and of itself. Dear lord.So, started playing this again today. Well... yesterday. I've been playing for a while. >.>
Finished a quest with everyone's favourite strung-out, redheaded boozehound.Spoiler: Cait stuff (click to show/hide)
That pretty much describes 90% of the dialogue in the game. But yeah, that example is particularly bad. It's a shame, because she's such a badass up until that point, and then you just get another good/neutral follower of which the majority are.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 05, 2016, 04:11:56 pm
I don't need firepower when I'm rocking these guns.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 05, 2016, 04:18:27 pm
Post by: Bluexdog on February 05, 2016, 04:19:14 pm
Post by: Krevsin on February 05, 2016, 04:27:21 pm
Ok has anyone got Curie?Yes.
She is adorable. Didn't do her quest yet tho.
Post by: Teneb on February 05, 2016, 04:29:22 pm
/me flexesIt may not be the best weapon, but it sure is the best ammo. Some quality parent-child time, too... (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/475/?)
I don't need firepower when I'm rocking these guns.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 05, 2016, 04:34:15 pm
/me flexesIt may not be the best weapon, but it sure is the best ammo. Some quality parent-child time, too... (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/475/?)
I don't need firepower when I'm rocking these guns.
Quote
Have you ever sat and thought, "man, I want to launch my baby out of a catapult?". I know I have.
In retrospect, this is why my wife left me.
10/10 mod description
Post by: Yoink on February 05, 2016, 04:40:30 pm
power armor + super sledge = everything dies, periodBut it looks so silly
Also GS was kinda cool, although SO MANY RADSCORPIONS AAAAGH I HATE THEM they're like, worse than cazadores in NV.
Later on I wandered into Goodneighbour to buy more supplies, and realised the place wasn't as lame as I at first thought. Met a somewhat cool new companion and got into a bunch of trouble. Despite the cheesiness, it was pretty good. I-I... I think I need sleep now, though. It's almost 8 AM. Whyyy.
Post by: Glloyd on February 05, 2016, 04:43:15 pm
Plus Cait's accent is cringey in and of itself. Dear lord.So, started playing this again today. Well... yesterday. I've been playing for a while. >.>
Finished a quest with everyone's favourite strung-out, redheaded boozehound.Spoiler: Cait stuff (click to show/hide)
That pretty much describes 90% of the dialogue in the game. But yeah, that example is particularly bad. It's a shame, because she's such a badass up until that point, and then you just get another good/neutral follower of which the majority are.
Yeah. And it makes no sense in the context of the world either.
Post by: Yoink on February 05, 2016, 04:44:17 pm
Post by: Levi on February 05, 2016, 04:48:04 pm
If you're going to pick on things for not making sense in the setting, well, you could be here a while... and Cait's daft accent is hardly the most jarring thing. As much as it did annoy me. :P
I had Hancock and Cait doing my Gardening. And I gave Cait a nice plain dress, which made it 3 times more hilarious when she pulls out a big ass syringe of psycho to shoot up and then goes back to gardening.
Post by: Glloyd on February 05, 2016, 05:11:08 pm
If you're going to pick on things for not making sense in the setting, well, you could be here a while... and Cait's daft accent is hardly the most jarring thing. As much as it did annoy me. :P
Yeah, we've beat that horse to death enough times in this thread :P
Post by: Flying Dice on February 05, 2016, 05:43:10 pm
(Doyalist) A natural feature of a '50s pulp SF setting.
(Watsonian) The result of people picking up accents by listening to old holotapes.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 05, 2016, 05:50:15 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on February 05, 2016, 05:51:11 pm
Also: A Bethesda game with slightly mediocre voice-acting? what
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 05, 2016, 05:53:41 pm
Post by: scriver on February 05, 2016, 06:07:25 pm
Didn't we already develop the idea that the accents are:
(Doyalist) A natural feature of a '50s pulp SF setting.
(Watsonian) The result of people picking up accents by listening to old holotapes.
No, we accepted the idea that it was
(Bethesdian) Just moronic worked building, like usual.
Possibly the result of having a family line that descended from immigrants before the war, as unlikely as it is?
That would be even worse. Accents aren't genetic. You'd need an entire society of Irish only people to carry that tongue torch for 300 years.
Post by: Teneb on February 05, 2016, 06:11:54 pm
Post by: Putnam on February 05, 2016, 06:13:42 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on February 05, 2016, 06:15:04 pm
At least he was the kind of villain you loved to hate. In my opinion, at least.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 05, 2016, 06:26:21 pm
That would be even worse. Accents aren't genetic. You'd need an entire society of Irish only people to carry that tongue torch for 300 years.It makes more sense than "because, go fuck yourself", at least.
Nah, Benny was an alright guy IMO. I mean, he kind of did shoot you in the head, and sends his goons up to murder you if you have low Speech, and doesn't do a goddamn thing for you except give you a snazzy suit... But he could have been worse.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 05, 2016, 06:52:03 pm
That would be even worse. Accents aren't genetic. You'd need an entire society of Irish only people to carry that tongue torch for 300 years.
Eh.
Most social groups seem to be very small, as you'd expect in a post-apoc wasteland. Isolated groups might keep their accents because they're not interacting with a society at large that could dilute it.
Think of England is quite a small country in size, but it's got such a huge variety of accents some of them are pretty much impossible to understand if you're not from there. And that's in the modern day, where there's regular transfer of communication, modern media, etc. The cessation of that flow of information isn't going to make them all adopt weaker accents. If anything, those like enclaves of irish immigrants or whatever are going to become more inwards-focused, because now strangers are actively dangerous.
Still, perhaps some cross contamination is possible, which is why Cait doesn't sound "truly irish" as I've seen people complain.
All in all, it's a relatively minor thing anyway.
Post by: Rolan7 on February 05, 2016, 07:26:50 pm
Also Fallout isn't freakin realistic, and nobody should consider that a personal insult. It focuses on pulp tropes rather than hard alt-history.
Except for New Vegas, which tried to explain a lot of things, and did a pretty nice job in some places. That was pretty cool, but it's the *exception*.
Post by: Grim Portent on February 05, 2016, 07:30:56 pm
Considering FO3's Colin Moriarty, yeah.
Didn't he mention that he and his father came to the Capital Wasteland by ship when he was a child? Pretty sure that was the explanation he gave in game for what an Irishman was doing running a pub in a radioactive crater.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on February 05, 2016, 07:32:49 pm
And also, most people *are* isolated. The world is incredibly dangerous and it makes perfect sense that some of the badasses who actually go out in the wastes would have eccentricities. Do those isolated farms look like they have many visitors? Of course they would retain family accents...It explained most things, because Obsidian knows how to write and make the story fit in well with the setting. :3
Also Fallout isn't freakin realistic, and nobody should consider that a personal insult. It focuses on pulp tropes rather than hard alt-history.
Except for New Vegas, which tried to explain a lot of things, and did a pretty nice job in some places. That was pretty cool, but it's the *exception*.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 05, 2016, 07:33:36 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on February 05, 2016, 07:36:47 pm
It explained most things, because Obsidian knows how to write and make the story fit in well with the setting. :3:P
New Vegas is... arguably my favorite, though it's kinda apples and oranges compared to FO3 and the originals. Apples oranges and kumquats?
But a setting being hard (in the sense of hard-sci-fi) doesn't mean the writing's good. A good story can be hard or soft.
Post by: Glloyd on February 05, 2016, 07:37:28 pm
and they might be making fallout 5 :3
I doubt it. They were talking about making a sequel to NV a little before FO4 came out, so if you're going to get your hopes up for a new FO game from Obsidian, that would probably be the one, a couple years down the line.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 05, 2016, 07:39:58 pm
Post by: Bluexdog on February 05, 2016, 07:46:44 pm
Post by: Yoink on February 06, 2016, 12:03:15 am
Spoiler: Mild 'The Big Dig' quest spoilers- it's a shit quest anyway so don't worry (click to show/hide)
Also, why am I sometimes simply unable to build things in settlements, with no actual explanation as to why?
I have all the materials, the thing just doesn't show up no matter where I try and place it.
Edit: My worst fears are confirmed. About this game, anyway.
Guess it's good only for screwing around with the character creation- unless you feel like playing just the way the devs want you to, and share their boner for the ridiculous, badly-written factions they filled it with. Ugh, and I can't even mod the game to be not-shit, since I play on console. :(
Editedit: This has actually upset me quite a lot. Huh. I expended a fair amount of energy defending this game from some of its critics, and now all of a sudden I hate it. This also means I'm pretty much out of games to play, games that I feel like playing at least. I'm actually feeling pretty sad about this. Weird.
Post by: TheBiggerFish on February 06, 2016, 12:30:45 am
Post by: Yoink on February 06, 2016, 12:31:31 am
Perhaps I'll buy the latest Mortal Kombat game when I get paid, I played it briefly at a friend's place and it is pretty dope.
Anyway! Enough of this derail!
/me disappears from the thread in a puff of smoke.
Post by: Flying Dice on February 06, 2016, 01:09:43 am
Spoiler: Mild 'The Big Dig' quest spoilers- it's a shit quest anyway so don't worry (click to show/hide)
Also, why am I sometimes simply unable to build things in settlements, with no actual explanation as to why?
I have all the materials, the thing just doesn't show up no matter where I try and place it.
Edit: My worst fears are confirmed. About this game, anyway.
Guess it's good only for screwing around with the character creation- unless you feel like playing just the way the devs want you to, and share their boner for the ridiculous, badly-written factions they filled it with. Ugh, and I can't even mod the game to be not-shit, since I play on console. :(
Editedit: This has actually upset me quite a lot. Huh. I expended a fair amount of energy defending this game from some of its critics, and now all of a sudden I hate it. This also means I'm pretty much out of games to play, games that I feel like playing at least. I'm actually feeling pretty sad about this. Weird.
Yoink, trust me. Finish the quest. I guarantee you'll like how it turns out, especially if you make the decision I think you will.
Just, uh. Beware of the buggy one-off mechanic.
Post by: Krevsin on February 06, 2016, 01:44:59 am
The problem is he doesn't sound irish, he sounds like an american doing a terrible irish accent.Considering FO3's Colin Moriarty, yeah.
Didn't he mention that he and his father came to the Capital Wasteland by ship when he was a child? Pretty sure that was the explanation he gave in game for what an Irishman was doing running a pub in a radioactive crater.
Post by: Sergius on February 06, 2016, 10:22:29 am
That seems to fix any logical problem in Fallout these days.
Post by: Bluexdog on February 06, 2016, 10:30:33 am
Post by: Krevsin on February 06, 2016, 10:38:42 am
Maybe Cait put her vocal cords in a refrigerator for 200 years and just recently took them out?Nonono, it was clearly the institute. She was a part of their secret super soldier program that failed and was released into the wilds.
That seems to fix any logical problem in Fallout these days.
Post by: Yoink on February 06, 2016, 02:51:51 pm
The problem is he doesn't sound irish, he sounds like an american doing a terrible irish accent.But... Irish people sound like Americans doing terrible Irish accents.
Yoink, trust me. Finish the quest. I guarantee you'll like how it turns out, especially if you make the decision I think you will.I might have to take your word for it and give it another shot. Still breaks my heart that I am unable to kill everyone, though.
Just, uh. Beware of the buggy one-off mechanic.
Post by: Flying Dice on February 06, 2016, 03:20:00 pm
Heh. You'll enjoy the ending, I promise.The problem is he doesn't sound irish, he sounds like an american doing a terrible irish accent.But... Irish people sound like Americans doing terrible Irish accents.Yoink, trust me. Finish the quest. I guarantee you'll like how it turns out, especially if you make the decision I think you will.I might have to take your word for it and give it another shot. Still breaks my heart that I am unable to kill everyone, though.
Just, uh. Beware of the buggy one-off mechanic.
Post by: Grim Portent on February 06, 2016, 03:24:38 pm
The problem is he doesn't sound irish, he sounds like an american doing a terrible irish accent.But... Irish people sound like Americans doing terrible Irish accents.
Some of them, yeah. Lot of different regional accents in Ireland, some sound a lot like some Scottish accents (speaking as a Scotsman there,) others have a strange almost lyrical twang to them, which I personally find really pretty as accents go, and there's bound to be a bunch I've never actually heard and so can't compare to others.
Cait and Moriarty's accents never struck me as being that far from some of the Irish accents I've heard, I always felt they were passable imitations at worst.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 06, 2016, 03:30:22 pm
Spoiler: BIG DIG ENDING SPOILERS (click to show/hide)
Post by: Aseaheru on February 06, 2016, 03:37:06 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on February 06, 2016, 04:28:22 pm
Speaking of being in a fridge for 200 years, what are the chances of an entire family getting ghoolified?
Judging by the amount of feral ghouls running around I'd say Bethesda see it as being quite likely for anyone who survived the initial blast to become a ghoul. If that's the case a whole family being ghoulified isn't that far fetched.
Post by: Flying Dice on February 06, 2016, 04:34:11 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Grim Portent on February 06, 2016, 05:23:49 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I know, I've done it. I was simply commenting that it's not that unlikely for a three person family to be ghoulified given that ghouls in general seem fairly common.
Though it does point to ghouls not needing to eat or drink to survive, and that they don't suffer muscle atrophy, which raises a lot of questions about their radiation driven biology.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 06, 2016, 05:43:08 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on February 07, 2016, 02:22:25 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 07, 2016, 02:23:54 am
Post by: Glloyd on February 07, 2016, 02:24:18 am
Post by: Rolan7 on February 10, 2016, 06:36:26 pm
and then he shared this:
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/498015283466448224/40B15557B46285FA487DD139440C8E331C0C59E5/
he did this on several settlements...
AND THEN HE WENT TO DIAMOND CITY FOR THE FIRST TIME
HE CAPTURED LITERALLY EVERY SETTLEMENT FIRST
I thought *I* was doing the radiant too much, flip!
The takeaway though is that he has really enjoyed the game up to this point and is pleasantly interested in the plot going forward.
It's maddening to not be able to talk to him about the Brotherhood, though, since he's always distrusted them (he only played 3 and NV) and I'd like to discuss how, yes, they're actually kinda evil in this one. Sorta kinda. He only just reached the Prydwynn and hasn't yet contacted the Railroad (says the waypoint isn't appearing right)
Meanwhile I still can't bring myself to start playing again (dropped it around Christmas). I got to the Institute and... just... Can't make a decision.
I guess canonically I should just
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I really want to see how he reacts to the Institute, but right now his theory is that they ARE the Brotherhood soooo yeah. My prediction is that he rejects them, like he hated the Brotherhood in previous games.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 10, 2016, 06:49:57 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on February 10, 2016, 07:43:28 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 10, 2016, 07:46:51 pm
Disregarding the fact that all of his memories aren't his own, I mean. He's just so loyal to the Brotherhood that he doesn't about other ways.
Post by: Bauglir on February 11, 2016, 12:15:17 am
they're not super evil, just really.. really devoted to what they think is right?would evil people... not be?
Post by: Putnam on February 11, 2016, 12:25:08 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 11, 2016, 06:07:46 am
If you want to be technical about it, wanting to prevent a second nuclear war is actually a pretty noble thing to do... They're just doing it weird. And mean.they're not super evil, just really.. really devoted to what they think is right?would evil people... not be?
And they hate synths (which is understandable), and ghouls (arguable), and super mutants (who doesn't?).
Post by: YaW on February 11, 2016, 06:23:33 am
I would say they are the worst faction by far in my moral compass. The end never justifies the means et al. I should play more, but so far, they are the worst for me.If you want to be technical about it, wanting to prevent a second nuclear war is actually a pretty noble thing to do... They're just doing it weird. And mean.they're not super evil, just really.. really devoted to what they think is right?would evil people... not be?
And they hate synths (which is understandable), and ghouls (arguable), and super mutants (who doesn't?).
Post by: Execute/Dumbo.exe on February 11, 2016, 06:25:14 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 11, 2016, 06:28:24 am
(I'm saying I get why they do. Personally I think it's super dumb that they hate half of the commonwealth, but I can't help that.)
Post by: YaW on February 11, 2016, 06:34:35 am
The Brotherhood is all about not having humanity wiped out by misuse of technology, and then you have a bunch of sentient robot people that think, act, and feel like real humans being made to look like other people and sent to live in their place, intentionally.Yeah, but I would argue that if they are completely human, like, they think, act and feel like human beings, it doesn't matter what they are built from, don't you think? It would be a matter of education. And, after all, robots didn't nuke the planet, haha.
(I'm saying I get why they do. Personally I think it's super dumb that they hate half of the commonwealth, but I can't help that.)
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 11, 2016, 06:44:00 am
I'm just explaining why, personally, I get their discrimination.
Post by: Bauglir on February 11, 2016, 08:17:51 am
christ bauglir your sig's pretty goodoh hey, thanks. ai koans (http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/koans.html) are neat.
fwiw i have always been a fan of your sig's image rotation. it contains many fine facial expressions
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on February 11, 2016, 07:59:49 pm
I'm still confused about this whole situation, why is it understandable to hate synths?Well, to be fair... Not all are sentient, right? In fact, many are basically completely subservient and don't have free will from my memory. Sometimes, they get all thinky. I don't know specifics, I should look into that more.
However, I'd also say the Brotherhood are the second-worst. You want to talk about ends justifying means? Look at the fucking Institute.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 11, 2016, 08:06:25 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on February 11, 2016, 08:08:10 pm
I just can't see a good outcome for the Commonwealth with them in charge. Even with the minutemen.
In fact, if I could get an ending where the minutemen just kill every faction/boot them out I would happily do so.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 11, 2016, 08:13:37 pm
Also, see
... they did at least try to not be Those Creepy Guys to the Commonwealth when they made their first synths. It just didn't work, ...
They hate the Commonwealth because the Commonwealth hates them first.
Post by: NullForceOmega on February 11, 2016, 08:16:31 pm
In fairness the inexplicable desire to commit what amounts to genocide against the synths is a completely insane motive, if I could displace Maxson and do things right, I would, but 'thesda cut that content.
But by far the most selfish and mindless idiots in all of this are the Railroad. They have a simulation engine with eighty (80) percent accurate predictions of future events. They use it to rescue toasters. Who they are liberating because they are individuals who have a right to freedom. But who they almost invariably mindwipe and implant false memories into (yes, I know it's voluntary, no I don't care. Why save someone only to erase them?).
Only the Minutemen are really particularly good for anyone other than themselves, but they suck without your 'leadership'.
Sorry if any of that still counts as spoilers.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on February 11, 2016, 08:20:21 pm
But the Railroad does have a noble goal. At least they've got that. The Institute has... Well, it's headed by someone most people won't really want to kill, I suspect, but I think I will.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 11, 2016, 08:23:07 pm
Maxson sucks.
Counterpoint: Why save someone and leave them with memories of imprisonment, forced labor, and what amounts to racism, while simultanously thrusting them into an entirely new world that would just as easily rob them blind as slaughter them without a second thought?
That's because Preston isn't a leader, as he says. He needs someone who can do that, i.e. the "I Do Everything for Everyone" guy, the Sole Survivor. Without someone to take charge he just wants to keep his four friends alive. For once.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on February 11, 2016, 08:25:17 pm
At least BoS lets me play with Liberty Prime.
Post by: NullForceOmega on February 11, 2016, 08:26:30 pm
To be fair you can say almost the same thing about the Brotherhood, except that they are far more fair-minded, they won't help anyone at all.
Bowtie: Not the same memories, not the same person. The person the Railroad rescued is dead the instant their experiences are gone. The 'New' person created from the new memories is someone totally different than that synth they helped escape.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 11, 2016, 08:29:09 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Institute wants you to kill *the biggest threats to their operations, and synths kill *anyone in their way (which is admittedly a lot of people, but if I wanna be an asshole I can say it's their own fault. Which I won't.) although they do like to shoot you on sight, even when not in a dungeon/quest.
NFO: Because if they let just anyone in, soon enough someone's gonna blab or get caught or turn out to be a mole, and they get slaughtered.
Brotherhood was better under Lyons.
But at least they get to live a different life. They aren't just a slave, they're a (self-predetermined, totally new) person.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on February 11, 2016, 08:37:09 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 11, 2016, 08:39:00 pm
Post by: Bluexdog on February 11, 2016, 09:01:15 pm
Spoiler: Those who know via his quest or mini nuked him (click to show/hide)
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 11, 2016, 09:04:12 pm
Spoiler: Super major spoilers, I mean it (click to show/hide)
Post by: MrWiggles on February 14, 2016, 05:45:13 pm
They don't need to replace anyone with Synths to do their goals. That is an entirely selfish and more then likely evil action. I dont think we're ever told what happen to the kidnappee but they're more then likely dead and might just be reduced to their base components for raw materiels.
The Institute is out only for themselves.
---
Minuet Man is the most altrusic, but ultimately a band aid. They're a reactionary force, not a proactive force. Maybe if the Minuet Men can become a confederation of homesteads, maybe? But how they function for the last 100 years, is that they're a band aid.
---
Railroad isn't really worth discussing. They're not a faction that'll turn into anything more then what they are. Though PAM is largely a waste for them.
--
BoS is the best faction in the game. They aren't the most selfless faction but they're the most proactive group. They're gonna take out super mutants, raiders, and feral ghouls. They aren't taking them out because they want the farmers to live a more secure lives, thats just a benefit.
Thats why the BoS is the best faction for wasteland. They're a stabilizing force, which then promotes growth and security.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 14, 2016, 05:47:44 pm
Post by: Teneb on February 14, 2016, 05:52:20 pm
They don't need to replace anyone with Synths to do their goals. That is an entirely selfish and more then likely evil action. I dont think we're ever told what happen to the kidnappee but they're more then likely dead and might just be reduced to their base components for raw materiels.I'm not sure what happened to the abductees after the lead researcher decided to... terminate the project, but...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: MrWiggles on February 15, 2016, 12:25:41 am
i dunno, racism sounds kinda bad to meThats the counter argument huh? Well, cant have any o this security, that'll allow us to grow and stabilize, because they're assholes.
The BoS are assholes. But they're the ones that going to make the walls of diamond city unnecessary they're going to remove the super mutants from the commonwealth. And from that stability, the raiders are going to go away to. Crime wont, but roving bands of mad killers will be.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 15, 2016, 12:33:48 am
Uh... You realize that they're gonna need a lot of help or a lot of time to actually do that, right? And they won't make the walls unnecessary, because walls are always necessary.
Post by: MrWiggles on February 15, 2016, 12:45:19 am
They're going to remove super mutants... And ghouls. Not just ferals, all ghouls. And they steal technology, both of which mean goodbye Goodneighbor.The BoS doenst have a history of attacking ghoul settlements. Why would they start now? They dont like the ghouls, and can't stand them, but they don't attack civilians.
Uh... You realize that they're gonna need a lot of help or a lot of time to actually do that, right? And they won't make the walls unnecessary, because walls are always necessary.
As for stealing technology. They've been known to do this, but most of the tech they have isn't stolen. And their actions are closet to noble as you're gonna get in the Commonwealth. Its very hard to argue down that misuse and arrogance of technology ended the world, and the continue misuse and arrogance of technology has come close to ending it a few more times since then.
However the BoS would be just as happy to confiscate the technology without a fight.
I suspect they may even let good neighbor continue to have their memory palace. Its not dangerous tech. Its not being misused.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 15, 2016, 12:54:12 am
The Minutemen save people, help them, rescue them, etc. without ever asking for anything in return, simply because it's the right thing to do. Literally more noble in every way than the Brotherhood.
Whether or not the Memory Den's tech is hurting people they'd probably want to get their hands on it. Maybe KLE0 and Whitechapel, too, because superstrong mobile laser droid and useful General Atomics tech, respectively.
Post by: MrWiggles on February 15, 2016, 01:02:27 am
And the Minuet do save poeple, and seen what a 100 years of Minuet Men has done for the common wealth. Nothing. They're a band aid.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on February 15, 2016, 01:05:46 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 15, 2016, 01:08:25 am
The Brotherhood literally enter the Commonwealth after the Minutemen have existed for years and proceed to
a. Do nothing
b. Get blown up
c. Get blown up by their own robot
d. Get blown up a different way, I think
e. Blow up stuff and then do nothing
..which are all ending-dependent. They don't save anyone. They don't give a molerat's ass about Quincy or Diamond City or anywhere or anyone in the Commonwealth except themselves.
Post by: MrWiggles on February 15, 2016, 01:39:12 am
Yes, they are. They take any technology they goddamn please because they don't think people are smart enough to use it. They are often wrong in this matter.It has nothing to do with Intelligence. It has to do with responsibility. They full well know there are folks smart enough to use it. Hence the whole, 'world nearly ending a few times since the bomb' thing.
Post by: BFEL on February 15, 2016, 01:54:32 am
No its not hard to argue against that. Because that is total bullshit thought up by a madman.They're going to remove super mutants... And ghouls. Not just ferals, all ghouls. And they steal technology, both of which mean goodbye Goodneighbor.The BoS doenst have a history of attacking ghoul settlements. Why would they start now? They dont like the ghouls, and can't stand them, but they don't attack civilians.
Uh... You realize that they're gonna need a lot of help or a lot of time to actually do that, right? And they won't make the walls unnecessary, because walls are always necessary.
As for stealing technology. They've been known to do this, but most of the tech they have isn't stolen. And their actions are closet to noble as you're gonna get in the Commonwealth. Its very hard to argue down that misuse and arrogance of technology ended the world, and the continue misuse and arrogance of technology has come close to ending it a few more times since then.
Technology didn't end the Fallout world.
People like Maxson did.
On the day the bombs fell there was undoubtedly some American or Chinese general in some bunker making speeches that sounded an AWFUL LOT like the ones he gives, right before they pushed the button.
Post by: MrWiggles on February 15, 2016, 01:59:49 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 15, 2016, 02:01:22 am
Post by: Krevsin on February 15, 2016, 03:00:51 am
Sure, they try to justify it and rationalize it but in the end, they're bullies, plain and simple. They would stabilize the Commonwealth, that much is certain, but they would turn its residents into lackeys who have the option of either cooperating or being killed off as a "potential threat to the stability of the Commonwealth". All the while the BoS is claiming all advanced technology for themselves under the pretense of "keeping it from being misused". The best way to prevent misuse is education and careful monitoring, not taking things away.
Oh and what makes people so sure they'd stabilize the region? On the Prydwen, you can access a computer which contains the letters soldiers wrote home (i.e. the Capital Wasteland). In one of them, a soldier orders his loved ones to pretty much sleep with a gun beside them in case of trouble. Does not seem all that stable to me.
But anyway, the BoS would quite literally keep the Commonwealth stupid and terrified of their might under the pretense of keeping it "stable". Textbook autocratic regime stuff.
Spoiler: for BoS ending (click to show/hide)
Likewise, the Institute would also like to keep the institute stupid, paranoid and terrified under the pretense of doing "the best" for them. Sure, they might make it a blossoming pre-war paradise in a couple centuries, but that's a maybe. The commonwealth's population would certainly not appreciate it and neither would the Synth (who are lest we forget manufactured human slaves).
The minutemen, on the other hand are a very reactionary force, that much is true. But as we know from history, first kingdoms and nation states have been born out of the need for protection which brought multiple settlements together.
The minutemen are precisely that, only with far more autonomy. Under the proper leadership (a charismatic, strong and determined leader such as for example the Sole Survivor when they are doing the Minutemen quests) they could unite the Commonwealth into a formidable, stable nation.
And even if they don't, they are a strong peacekeeping force that could easily take on the raiders and super mutants of the Commonwealth and win.
Spoiler: mild Institute spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now Gunners are a very typical Bethesdaism. They are a highly organized, well equipped faction who are there to give the player a meaty mid-to-late game challenge, but make no bloody sense from a worldbuilding perspective. They are clearly intelligent and organized, unlike your typical raiders. Yet they have no discernible goal or objective. What they do is build highly fortified and well defended encampments in the middle of nowhere and then proceed to sit inside them and do bugger-all except take potshots at anyone passing by. If they wanted the money, they should run protection rackets, offer really expensive safe havens for merchants and do mercenary work for the settlements now that the Minutemen aren't around to do it out of the kindness of their heart. But no, they just sit there in their fortresses attacking random people and generally making no bloody sense.
The minutemen would be in for quite a fight to take them on and it'd probably take several bloody, exhaustive campaigns. Or they could do it diplomatically (in a reasonable world, they would but this is a Bethesda world so they most likely won't).
Now the Children of Atom are a much smaller group but a very significant threat. They are equipped with powerful weaponry (the Gamma Gun will wreck your shit unless you've got some serious radiation protection) and are on a religious crusade to purge the unbelievers from the Commonwealth. Again, a tough fight for the Minutemen.
So, the Minutemen could potentially stabilize the Commonwealth, but it'd take them longer than the Brotherhood (even longer still if they'd pissed the BoS off and had to take them on as well). However unlike the Brotherhood, they do not seem hell bent on stripping the commonwealth of its technology and then keeping it "stable" by brutally crushing anyone who dares oppose them. However, their overall behaviour seems to be very dependent on the whims of their current leader. Then again, so does the Brotherhood's.
Post by: NullForceOmega on February 15, 2016, 03:08:33 am
Post by: MrWiggles on February 15, 2016, 03:11:11 am
Post by: NullForceOmega on February 15, 2016, 03:12:35 am
Post by: Yoink on February 15, 2016, 03:20:16 am
Everyone else bad guys
Edit: I fucking wish the radiant quests actually worked properly more of the time.
Half the time it gives me the same damn quest at the same damn place, where I already subjugated the populace there just a few minutes prior.
Also I just realised I still haven't gotten around to playing this again since last time.
Post by: MrWiggles on February 15, 2016, 03:24:17 am
Post by: NullForceOmega on February 15, 2016, 03:29:52 am
They are however jerks who don't care about people who aren't part of their organization, but that suits me just fine.
Edit: I'd also like to reiterate, in the main-timeline games (Black Isle/Obsidian) only the combat arm are called Paladins, the technical arm are knights, and the scholastic arm are scribes. Elder isn't even a rank, its a descriptor for a member of the Brotherhood who has lived long enough to no longer be suitable for field work. The elders (plural, there are more than one) serve as a council who direct the BoS.
Post by: scriver on February 15, 2016, 04:35:50 am
Now, I vastly prefer the Minutemen over the BoS not just because of them being more sympathic and their superior fashion sense but also because their more civil and hopeful view of the world. However, the thing about the Minutemen is that even if they unite every single settlement in the Commonwealth, they would still be putting the Commonwealth under the rule of a military junta - and they would rule the commonwealth in practice, because they would be the single most stabilizing and uniting force there. They're just the preferable choice because they consist of people actually from the Commonwealth standing up and defending themselves and each other, because in practice the choice between the BoS and the Minutemen comes down to one between a military rule by people from a completely different part of the world with no ties to you, or a military rule by your neighbours and relatives who know you, care for you or at least sympathize with you, and hopefully understand that working together is in all of your self-interests. The real issue becomes how to prevent the Minutemen from changing from that into a warrior-nobility caste over time.
Post by: Grim Portent on February 15, 2016, 05:05:29 am
Post by: Krevsin on February 15, 2016, 05:24:26 am
I've got to say, most of your complaints about the BoS are due to Bethesda's blatant ambivalence towards them. It's pretty clear that one of the main writers or the director really likes them, and another writer hates them with mindless passion. If the writing of the BoS in F4 were actually consistent (and it really isn't) then I could see my way to agreeing with you, but since it's a typical clusterfuck, I have to call an assertion that the BoS are trying to be dictators flat-out wrong.I know, i'm just desperately trying to make sense of the typical Bethesdaistic clusterfuck they like to call worldbuilding :P
This way, if I squint hard enough, BoS's motivations and actions actually make sense.
My personal stance on the factions is that none are inherently superior to each other and "the best choice" mostly depends on what you as a person think is good for the Commonwealth. Kinda like NV only without an ANARCHY option and worse writing.
edit:
Kinda, sorta, but not really. It's mostly a show they put on to keep uneducated wastelanders at bay, once inside it becomes painfully apparent (through conversation and holotapes/terminals) that they are highly educated, well-rounded individuals who happen to be engaged in the arduous and slightly questionable task of collecting advanced technology, archiving it for later, and keeping destructive tech out of the hands of people who would misuse it. This of course leads them to do things that many would look at as 'stealing technology', which is a silly claim as they also do things like help maintain useful, safe, technologies for some wasteland communities (The Hub, Junktown, the entire NCR.)I like to view the eastern coast BoS as a completely separate outgrowth of the Western BoS that shares only nomenclature with its progenitor. Makes the whole thing a much more enjoyable experience.
They are however jerks who don't care about people who aren't part of their organization, but that suits me just fine.
Edit: I'd also like to reiterate, in the main-timeline games (Black Isle/Obsidian) only the combat arm are called Paladins, the technical arm are knights, and the scholastic arm are scribes. Elder isn't even a rank, its a descriptor for a member of the Brotherhood who has lived long enough to no longer be suitable for field work. The elders (plural, there are more than one) serve as a council who direct the BoS.
Post by: MrWiggles on February 15, 2016, 07:26:43 am
It is worth bearing in mind that if the Institute takes over they do defend the people of the Commonwealth to an extent. Not as much as the Brotherhood or Minutemen do, but Synth patrols do start killing some raiders and mutants.Do they stop replacing folks with Synths? Did they reveal everyone who was a synth?
Post by: Grim Portent on February 15, 2016, 08:19:39 am
It is worth bearing in mind that if the Institute takes over they do defend the people of the Commonwealth to an extent. Not as much as the Brotherhood or Minutemen do, but Synth patrols do start killing some raiders and mutants.Do they stop replacing folks with Synths? Did they reveal everyone who was a synth?
Probably to the former, since it becomes an unnecessary expense, though it's not actually discussed in game. No to the latter.
Spoiler: Institute ending spoilers (click to show/hide)
Post by: Yoink on February 15, 2016, 10:47:14 am
Yoink, trust me. Finish the quest. I guarantee you'll like how it turns out, especially if you make the decision I think you will.Aw, man. You mean I can trade one incredibly irritating, poorly written faction for another incredibly irritating, poorly written faction?
Just, uh. Beware of the buggy one-off mechanic.
Where's my Option C: Kill everyone in the room apart from myself and maybe my companion?
When did the whole 'inexplicably unkillable NPC weaklings' nonsense become a thing, anyway? Just about every Beth game seems to have the same issue.
This game's pretty shithouse without mods. I say again, I kinda regret ever defending Bethesda.
Well, Fallout 3 was actually quite good, in my opinion. But this thing is terrible, it has all the same problems and adds a whole bunch more.
Punching robots is fun, and the character creator is good, but everything past that has been pretty rubbish.
Post by: Krevsin on February 15, 2016, 10:57:16 am
Post by: Glloyd on February 15, 2016, 01:33:49 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 15, 2016, 01:35:14 pm
Post by: Krevsin on February 15, 2016, 01:37:25 pm
It honestly baffles me how someone could play twenty hours, not even get to the second quest in the main story, and then get bored and quit.Bethesda games are weird like that. On my second playthrough I spent nearly 50 hours before getting around to that particular quest.
Post by: Ivefan on February 15, 2016, 01:57:15 pm
It honestly baffles me how someone could play twenty hours, not even get to the second quest in the main story, and then get bored and quit.Because running around randomly and doing random shit is much more enjoyable than enduring Bethplot?
In morrowing i accidentially sold the letter that introduces the main plot and i didn't feel like i had missed anything when i stopped playing.
In Oblivin I finished the main quest, thought it sucked and then modded the game into... Oblivion and had fun running around doing random stuff.
In fallout 3 I started the game, Disliked everything and quit.
In Skyrim I only did whatever main quest i needed to unlock features.
Post by: NullForceOmega on February 15, 2016, 02:04:00 pm
Post by: PTTG?? on February 15, 2016, 02:21:55 pm
Post by: Krevsin on February 15, 2016, 02:23:12 pm
Post by: nenjin on February 15, 2016, 04:21:39 pm
It honestly baffles me how someone could play twenty hours, not even get to the second quest in the main story, and then get bored and quit.
About 60 hours here and I haven't even been to Diamond City, or whatever that big cluster fuck south of me is. I've literally crawled over the entire northern half of the map above the line it demarcates.
I've ALWAYS been a neutral in Bethesda games, every single one. It tries so hard to get you invested in their storylines and my first instinct as a player is to reject it. Imma guy who woke up hundreds of years after my life died, or who was dragged from their previous life and thrust into a new one. Me ignoring their main questline is the ultimate expression of my independence and choice as a player and as a character in the game world. From that vantage point I can take a dispassionate view of the politics and conflicts of the times, because I'm still ultimately a stranger to this world. Trying to find:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
If Bethesda really, really put the work into their quests, it would be the best position to play the game from IMO. Observing the state of a conflict and taking surgical action to resolve the conflict in the way you feel best serves your interests or the interests of the world. Instead they have hundreds of quests with an A (kill one side), B (kill the other side) and C (do nothing and/or take a specific alternative) option. Which is alright. But it doesn't motivate me to jump into their quests. The morality choices only make sense to me in Beth games if you subscribe to the one or more irrational beliefs that underpin them. "All Synths are dangerous." "The world needs order and a leader no matter the cost." "Nords 4 Life." "Imperial rule is best because Imperial rule is best." "Brotherhood of Steel is always right."
So yeah. Why would I saddle myself with an ultimately uninteresting set of choices when I can have total freedom and be constrained by no moral/political philosophy except that which I create? I have more fun effectively creating the Kingdom In the North and deciding what gets to live in my Kingdom....than I do passing moral/ethical/political judgment on the more developed parts of the world.
As an example:
Spoiler: Covenant (click to show/hide)
As a counter-example:
Spoiler: The Diner (click to show/hide)
It's setups like Covenant which make it hard for me to run out and do longer Beth quests, and prefer the shorter quests/events which aren't trying so hard. Sort of like how short stories are often better stories than full length ones because they're so much tighter.
Because in more important Bethesda quests, the principles are not fully fleshed-out people. The right questions are never asked of them or what they believe. The foundations on which beliefs are built are shaky at best, 100% arbitrary at worst. Thus it has always been in Beth games. The quests are acceptable if you wholesale buy into the beliefs that inhabit the world and don't question them. If you stand apart from the world and look at it with a critical eye, most of the higher order beliefs in the world just seem absurd. Kind of like how Bethesda has to throw a lot of random, generic content into their world to cover all the empty spaces, in terms of ideas and themes, they often to the same thing so that the world is covered in several very broad themes (Nord Independence.) For example, the Oblivion Gates? No one gave a shit about the Oblivion gates. But at least it was an uncomplicated and adventurous theme that provided global context. (Go through strange portals and kill demons before they destroy your world.) Since Oblivion though the big themes in the games have gotten more political. Just what the doctor ordered right? Not if they're not executed interestingly.
It's why I think Morrowind still has the superior introduction despite all the games since it. You get your Bethesda style intro and then the game just drops you in a foreign land with few to no preconceptions to motivate you. It's all discovery. No tugging at the heart strings plot. No grand plots of world-shattering importance that you inexplicably are always in at the ground floor of. I can barely recall most of the Morrowind plots at this point because they're all pretty distinct in their own way.
Post by: Rolan7 on February 15, 2016, 04:57:52 pm
It honestly baffles me how someone could play twenty hours, not even get to the second quest in the main story, and then get bored and quit.My brother has been playing this in the most baffling way, almost opposite me. He has 273 hours. Practically every settlement, many loaded up with LITERALLY DOZENS of heavy water purifiers. He complains that Preston kept telling him to get more (he likes Preston, hated the nagging)...
And he finally saw the Glowing Sea yesterday, and only because I kept keeping him on track. It kinda blows my mind (I've mostly stuck to the main quest, screw the settlements, because I want my son back and all (in fact I basically stopped playing at [REDACTED], out of indecision)). I don't really like the settlement system at all, even with Local Leader, but he...
Like me, he does travel with Nick! But we have basically the opposite opinion of him. He really, really hates Nick, and I honestly don't know why. He keeps saying Nick's probably a sleeper agent (sure, likely, particularly after [REDACTED]) but this is bizarre... He actually cusses Nick out for getting in the way, and shot him a bunch for "losing" a suit of power armor. (It was weird, he had Nick hack a computer (he hates the computer game, like most people (unlike me)) and forgot to tell Nick to get back in. And apparently the power armor despawned later).
I have no idea why he travels with him, and it's kinda frustrating since I really like Nick's entire character, and would romance him if that was an option.
He likes Piper of course, but who doesn't? Even I like the whole reporter thing.
Edit: Oh but mainly he has totally been ignoring the main quest like crazy. My friends and I played Oblivion for years without finishing the main quest, because it was meh. Skyrim we took our time. But, we at least got midway through so all the cool stuff started! (Gates, dragons)
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 15, 2016, 05:00:38 pm
Post by: nenjin on February 15, 2016, 05:04:33 pm
The game is a whole different experience when you're trying to snipe Legendary Super Mutants and are just a couple moments away from death if they ever actually locate you.
Post by: Glloyd on February 15, 2016, 05:35:53 pm
It honestly baffles me how someone could play twenty hours, not even get to the second quest in the main story, and then get bored and quit.Because running around randomly and doing random shit is much more enjoyable than enduring Bethplot?
In morrowing i accidentially sold the letter that introduces the main plot and i didn't feel like i had missed anything when i stopped playing.
In Oblivin I finished the main quest, thought it sucked and then modded the game into... Oblivion and had fun running around doing random stuff.
In fallout 3 I started the game, Disliked everything and quit.
In Skyrim I only did whatever main quest i needed to unlock features.
Yeah, i put something like 100 hours into Oblivion before I picked up the main quest. I played it up until gates started appearing then went and did my own thing. Same with FO3. For NV, I actually played the story first because it was actually interesting to me, and then I went exploring and did all the DLC. I never finished Skyrim either. I got all the fun I could have out of exploring, played halfway through the story and stopped because it got boring. Beth can't write for shit, and it can't keep me captivated. The best part about those games is exploring, and once I'm done that, there's not much left to keep my interest until DLC with new areas comes out, or mods with new areas.
It's why I think Morrowind still has the superior introduction despite all the games since it. You get your Bethesda style intro and then the game just drops you in a foreign land with few to no preconceptions to motivate you. It's all discovery. No tugging at the heart strings plot. No grand plots of world-shattering importance that you inexplicably are always in at the ground floor of. I can barely recall most of the Morrowind plots at this point because they're all pretty distinct in their own way.
Exactly. Morrowind was the last Beth game that I really enjoyed the set up of. I only finished FO3 because my friend told me Broken Steel was fun, which it kinda was.
Post by: Putnam on February 15, 2016, 05:53:54 pm
Post by: Glloyd on February 15, 2016, 06:00:41 pm
Shivering Isles was completely amazing. Knights of the Nine was pretty good, too, definitely way deeper than it first appears (I.E read the content given to you in-game about the divine crusader you're emulating and you'll find out he was a batshit insane killbot from the future).
For sure, I enjoyed Shivering Isles more than the main questline.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on February 15, 2016, 06:11:19 pm
Shivering Isles was completely amazing. Knights of the Nine was pretty good, too, definitely way deeper than it first appears (I.E read the content given to you in-game about the divine crusader you're emulating and you'll find out he was a batshit insane killbot from the future).
Because Shivering Isles didn't feel like a bog-standard medieval-fantasy setting, it felt like a mad-god's domain. Skyrim at least had some direction in its art-It was nordic and stuck with that theme. Of course, Skyrim traded a lot of content I felt for that setting; I really like Oblivion.Shivering Isles was completely amazing. Knights of the Nine was pretty good, too, definitely way deeper than it first appears (I.E read the content given to you in-game about the divine crusader you're emulating and you'll find out he was a batshit insane killbot from the future).
For sure, I enjoyed Shivering Isles more than the main questline.
I never did get through Knights Of The Nine. What's this about killbots?
Post by: Teneb on February 15, 2016, 06:21:31 pm
Pelinal Whitestrake (the Divine Crusader guy the entire plot of the DLC revolves around) was a Terminator, who was also Lorkhan because, from the future sent to the past to team up with a slave queen (who would later go one to perform great feats like possessing a hill (postmortem) and being impregnated by some nord warlord, in this order) and her winged minotaur husband (who is said killbot's nephew) to perform genocide on elves. Yes, really.Shivering Isles was completely amazing. Knights of the Nine was pretty good, too, definitely way deeper than it first appears (I.E read the content given to you in-game about the divine crusader you're emulating and you'll find out he was a batshit insane killbot from the future).Because Shivering Isles didn't feel like a bog-standard medieval-fantasy setting, it felt like a mad-god's domain. Skyrim at least had some direction in its art-It was nordic and stuck with that theme. Of course, Skyrim traded a lot of content I felt for that setting; I really like Oblivion.Shivering Isles was completely amazing. Knights of the Nine was pretty good, too, definitely way deeper than it first appears (I.E read the content given to you in-game about the divine crusader you're emulating and you'll find out he was a batshit insane killbot from the future).
For sure, I enjoyed Shivering Isles more than the main questline.
I never did get through Knights Of The Nine. What's this about killbots?
Post by: Putnam on February 15, 2016, 06:23:32 pm
Post by: Teneb on February 15, 2016, 06:27:13 pm
Yeah, he would rant about Reman Cyrodiil, who wouldn't be born for QUITE a few years, among other things.I should've probably mentioned that Reman is the lovechild of Hrol (the hill-fucking nord) and Sancre Tor (the hill, possessed by the aforementioned slave queen (Alessia)).
Reman himself... is another story. One we should take to the TES thread.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on February 15, 2016, 07:06:59 pm
Post by: Lich180 on February 15, 2016, 07:18:42 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on February 15, 2016, 08:35:19 pm
Yoink, trust me. Finish the quest. I guarantee you'll like how it turns out, especially if you make the decision I think you will.Aw, man. You mean I can trade one incredibly irritating, poorly written faction for another incredibly irritating, poorly written faction?
Just, uh. Beware of the buggy one-off mechanic.
Where's my Option C: Kill everyone in the room apart from myself and maybe my companion?
When did the whole 'inexplicably unkillable NPC weaklings' nonsense become a thing, anyway? Just about every Beth game seems to have the same issue.
This game's pretty shithouse without mods. I say again, I kinda regret ever defending Bethesda.
Well, Fallout 3 was actually quite good, in my opinion. But this thing is terrible, it has all the same problems and adds a whole bunch more.
Punching robots is fun, and the character creator is good, but everything past that has been pretty rubbish.
Meant that in reference to your earlier complaints about being railroaded into helping the quest-giver. As far as I'm concerned the ending was getting to screw her over and collect a unique gun from the person-shaped dispenser.
Post by: scriver on February 16, 2016, 01:53:26 am
Post by: Glloyd on February 16, 2016, 02:35:08 am
When did the whole 'inexplicably unkillable NPC weaklings' nonsense become a thing, anyway? Just about every Beth game seems to have the same issue.
Yeah, I feel like it's way worse in this game though. You can't kill caravan guards, you can't kill 90% of the people in Diamond City. It's really strange. There's even a lot of unnamed NPCs you can't kill.
Post by: Grim Portent on February 16, 2016, 06:01:35 am
When did the whole 'inexplicably unkillable NPC weaklings' nonsense become a thing, anyway? Just about every Beth game seems to have the same issue.
Yeah, I feel like it's way worse in this game though. You can't kill caravan guards, you can't kill 90% of the people in Diamond City. It's really strange. There's even a lot of unnamed NPCs you can't kill.
They first did it in Oblivion, presumably as a way to prevent quests breaking as much as they did in Morrowind. The experience in that can kind of be summed up as 'You killed a random guy in a town? Three quests have broken! Hahahahaha!' It was made worse by the fact that sometimes wandering NPCs would get killed by animals and monsters in the wilderness. So in Oblivion they added the essential tag that made some people immortal to avoid quests being failed before they were started.
They did the same in FO3, but instead what wound up annoying people was that caravan traders would get killed by deathclaws, raiders and other stupid stuff as they meandered slowly between settlements.
Bit by bit as people have complained about traders, shopkeepers, quest important NPCs and a dozen other things dying to random shit Bethesda have made more and more NPCs essential so they don't get killed before their time. The problem isn't so much that caravans can't get killed by random wildlife, but more that they haven't applied the essential tag in such a fashion that we can still killed people if we want to (except settlers.)
Post by: Reudh on February 16, 2016, 08:31:40 am
Rather than making them invulnerable to death, or vulnerable - if a quest-important NPC is injured or killed by something, they could be forced to their home and have bedrest or something. "Greetings, Playercharacter. I got in a punch-up with <Stereotypical brawny nord>/attacked by X bandit gang/mauled by wolves/etc. I'm afraid I can't join you for X/Y/Z portion of this job, but maybe if you have some kind of restoration magic/skill with alchemy you could get me up and going?"
Some quests would have to overlook that, but I think it could be a kinda cool mechanic. They'd also heal over time, though - so a resource poor player wouldn't be locked out of a quest because they didn't have a necessary skill.
Post by: Grim Portent on February 16, 2016, 09:07:11 am
Of course if they let the player kill essential characters we might wind up with that annoying scenario where companions are more of a nuisance than a help to the players that use rapid fire or area affect weapons and often engage in friendly fire.
Post by: scriver on February 16, 2016, 09:29:25 am
Post by: Krevsin on February 16, 2016, 10:48:59 am
Post by: Teneb on February 16, 2016, 11:37:11 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on February 16, 2016, 11:47:33 am
Post by: Rolan7 on February 16, 2016, 11:53:00 am
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on February 16, 2016, 11:56:53 am
Quote
“The mysterious Mechanist has unleashed a horde of evil robots into the Commonwealth, including the devious Robobrain. Hunt them down and harvest their parts to build and mod your own custom robot companions. Choose from hundreds of mods; mixing limbs, armor, abilities, and weapons like the all-new lightning chain gun. Even customize their paint schemes and choose their voices!”
Quote
“With the Wasteland Workshop, design and set cages to capture live creatures – from raiders to Deathclaws! Tame them or have them face off in battle, even against your fellow settlers. The Wasteland Workshop also includes a suite of new design options for your settlements like nixi tube lighting, letter kits, taxidermy and more!”
Quote
A new case from Valentine’s Detective Agency leads you on a search for a young woman and a secret colony of synths. Travel off the coast of Maine to the mysterious island of Far Harbor, where higher levels of radiation have created a more feral world. Navigate through the growing conflict between the synths, the Children of Atom, and the local townspeople. Will you work towards bringing peace to Far Harbor, and at what cost? Far Harbor features the largest landmass for an add-on that we’ve ever created, filled with new faction quests, settlements, lethal creatures and dungeons. Become more powerful with new, higher-level armor and weapons. The choices are all yours.”
All I can think of is... Wasn't the Mechanist that dude who fought the Antagonizer in 3?
Post by: Rolan7 on February 16, 2016, 12:03:27 pm
Post by: Krevsin on February 16, 2016, 12:03:33 pm
Personally the only one I'm looking forward to from that lineup is the last one.
Post by: Teneb on February 16, 2016, 12:08:49 pm
It would appear so. (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Mechanist)It seems that Bethesda decided to imitate the style of Skyrim's DLCs. A first DLC that adds new items and enemies, but nearly no new areas, a second that is related to housing and a third that contains a new landmass.
Personally the only one I'm looking forward to from that lineup is the last one.
Exploring the Children of Atom is a pretty cool thing, though. Probably one of the most interesting parts of FO4.
EDIT: It seems ZebioLizard2 either didn't see it or forgot to mention, but Bethesda wants to make more DLC than those 3. These future, unannounced bits of content will be included in the season pass, that will be getting more expensive... unless you already own it, in which case you don't pay extra. The price change will happen on the 1st of March. Buying it before then guarantees you all content at the current price.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on February 16, 2016, 12:38:48 pm
Post by: Krevsin on February 16, 2016, 01:06:56 pm
Ohoh! The third one sounds like a genuinely fairly interesting bit of content! Because it involves Nick Fucking Valentine and his detective agency. I kind of want Fallout: Detective more than Fallout: Children Of Atom Strike Back.I do hope it goes ever so slightly lovecraftian.
Fallout: Dunwich Borers/Building: The DLC basically.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 16, 2016, 02:51:36 pm
Post by: Glloyd on February 16, 2016, 03:16:34 pm
So it seems the first three DLC got announced.Quote“The mysterious Mechanist has unleashed a horde of evil robots into the Commonwealth, including the devious Robobrain. Hunt them down and harvest their parts to build and mod your own custom robot companions. Choose from hundreds of mods; mixing limbs, armor, abilities, and weapons like the all-new lightning chain gun. Even customize their paint schemes and choose their voices!”Quote“With the Wasteland Workshop, design and set cages to capture live creatures – from raiders to Deathclaws! Tame them or have them face off in battle, even against your fellow settlers. The Wasteland Workshop also includes a suite of new design options for your settlements like nixi tube lighting, letter kits, taxidermy and more!”QuoteA new case from Valentine’s Detective Agency leads you on a search for a young woman and a secret colony of synths. Travel off the coast of Maine to the mysterious island of Far Harbor, where higher levels of radiation have created a more feral world. Navigate through the growing conflict between the synths, the Children of Atom, and the local townspeople. Will you work towards bringing peace to Far Harbor, and at what cost? Far Harbor features the largest landmass for an add-on that we’ve ever created, filled with new faction quests, settlements, lethal creatures and dungeons. Become more powerful with new, higher-level armor and weapons. The choices are all yours.”
All I can think of is... Wasn't the Mechanist that dude who fought the Antagonizer in 3?
The first one sounds neat, the second one is lame as fuck because the homemaker mods already expand settlement building more than Beth ever will, and the GECK isnt even out yet. The third sounds fun though, more area to explore.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 16, 2016, 03:17:36 pm
Post by: Krevsin on February 16, 2016, 03:40:11 pm
Pokemon. With Deathclaws.
drops mic.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 16, 2016, 03:43:40 pm
Guys guys guys. You're thinking about this entirely wrong.
Fallout. With Haxorus.
drops mic.
Post by: scriver on February 16, 2016, 03:56:30 pm
Dude, don't be so careless, we paid a lot for this stuff
Post by: miauw62 on February 16, 2016, 04:08:01 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on February 16, 2016, 07:33:18 pm
...Yes. It might even tie into that weird quest from Point Lookout involving horrific demons. I'm excited now.Ohoh! The third one sounds like a genuinely fairly interesting bit of content! Because it involves Nick Fucking Valentine and his detective agency. I kind of want Fallout: Detective more than Fallout: Children Of Atom Strike Back.I do hope it goes ever so slightly lovecraftian.
Fallout: Dunwich Borers/Building: The DLC basically.
Post by: jocan2003 on February 16, 2016, 08:37:08 pm
So it seems the first three DLC got announced.Ahhh now i understand why its taking so long before the GECK is released... they wanna milk it a bit more before giving the tools to modders so they can add more for free. Or if my fears come to life.... make mods mini paid DLC..... and they would get a cut on them.... man i really hope my fear doesnt come to life or else it will create a REALLY bad example.....Quote“The mysterious Mechanist has unleashed a horde of evil robots into the Commonwealth, including the devious Robobrain. Hunt them down and harvest their parts to build and mod your own custom robot companions. Choose from hundreds of mods; mixing limbs, armor, abilities, and weapons like the all-new lightning chain gun. Even customize their paint schemes and choose their voices!”Quote“With the Wasteland Workshop, design and set cages to capture live creatures – from raiders to Deathclaws! Tame them or have them face off in battle, even against your fellow settlers. The Wasteland Workshop also includes a suite of new design options for your settlements like nixi tube lighting, letter kits, taxidermy and more!”QuoteA new case from Valentine’s Detective Agency leads you on a search for a young woman and a secret colony of synths. Travel off the coast of Maine to the mysterious island of Far Harbor, where higher levels of radiation have created a more feral world. Navigate through the growing conflict between the synths, the Children of Atom, and the local townspeople. Will you work towards bringing peace to Far Harbor, and at what cost? Far Harbor features the largest landmass for an add-on that we’ve ever created, filled with new faction quests, settlements, lethal creatures and dungeons. Become more powerful with new, higher-level armor and weapons. The choices are all yours.”
All I can think of is... Wasn't the Mechanist that dude who fought the Antagonizer in 3?
Post by: Putnam on February 16, 2016, 08:47:50 pm
Post by: nenjin on February 16, 2016, 08:53:21 pm
*If that were to actually happen
Either that or it's waiting on some broader Steam framework for paid modding.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on February 16, 2016, 09:31:27 pm
Quote
EDIT: It seems ZebioLizard2 either didn't see it or forgot to mention, but Bethesda wants to make more DLC than those 3. These future, unannounced bits of content will be included in the season pass, that will be getting more expensive... unless you already own it, in which case you don't pay extra. The price change will happen on the 1st of March. Buying it before then guarantees you all content at the current price.
Didn't know about the Season Pass (blech), and I mentioned the First Three DLC. Bethseda likes it's DLC so it likely wouldn't be the last.
Post by: Flying Dice on February 16, 2016, 10:05:21 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 16, 2016, 10:36:51 pm
I can't believe I got the season pass for this shit. Literally an entirely new set of companions that don't have annoying quips every time you pick up junk, Pokemon: Fallout version, and one new area with new quests that also explores an underdeveloped faction from the base game.
Post by: Flying Dice on February 16, 2016, 10:55:46 pm
Likewise, if I wanted to play Pokemon, I'd play Touhoumon.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 16, 2016, 11:08:19 pm
I also don't see the issue with possible robot attacks, because vampire attacks were little more than a nuisance for me. Probably because I modded it so civilians go indoors during, like sane people
I will also resist the urge to say Touhoumon isn't Pokemon, because from what I've seen it's a..... creative? overhaul of the latter.
Post by: Flying Dice on February 16, 2016, 11:14:54 pm
Spoiler: offtopic (click to show/hide)
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 16, 2016, 11:17:05 pm
Post by: Man of Paper on February 16, 2016, 11:32:05 pm
Post by: BigD145 on February 16, 2016, 11:50:02 pm
Post by: nenjin on February 17, 2016, 12:28:53 am
So like:
Never more than 2 Rad-X, 3 RadAway, 6 Stimpacks, 2 or more of any food item or drugs (which I rarely use despite always collecting them), no more than 2 Frag Grenades, Frag Mines, Bottle Cap mines, etc....I try to keep it to 6 weapons and a spare rad suit.
I figure the discipline will serve me well when the survival mods are out. Plus, it keeps things interesting. Otherwise I'd literally just stand there and shoot and refill my stocks with what I pick up instead of playing to not get hurt.
Dunno about ammo though. I think I'm currently carrying 20+ mini nukes and 30 Fusion Cores for no reason. That and other weight discipline and Lone Wanderer perk gets me about 250 - 300 carry weight of loot.
Post by: Flying Dice on February 17, 2016, 12:33:59 am
In a year or two if any of it was even worth buying, it'll all be $5. If it's not worth it I'm out $0. Fuck preorders.TBH I'd assumed that it'd be like 3/NV, with 3-4 major DLCs with their own new map area and set of quests.
Post by: BigD145 on February 17, 2016, 12:42:59 am
In a year or two if any of it was even worth buying, it'll all be $5. If it's not worth it I'm out $0. Fuck preorders.TBH I'd assumed that it'd be like 3/NV, with 3-4 major DLCs with their own new map area and set of quests.
Most of the dlc for 3/NV was forgetable. I doubt there will even be $20 worth of good dlc by the end of 4's life.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 17, 2016, 12:44:35 am
Post by: BigD145 on February 17, 2016, 12:47:25 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 17, 2016, 01:01:42 am
Post by: Glloyd on February 17, 2016, 01:21:57 am
OLD WORLD BLUES WAS NOT FORGETTABLE
Lonesome Road was also an awesome ending to the overarching backstory to NV and the other 3 DLCs. The locale of Honest Hearts was nice, but the story was a bit bland, and Dead Money was the worst part of NV hands down. Mothership Zeta tier.
So a bit of a mixed bag overall, which was the story for FO3 as well. Zeta was trash, Anchorage was an interesting little romp that got dull by the end but snagged you a cool weapon, Broken Steel was nice because you could continue the game, and the assault on the Enclave base was just stupidly fun, the Pitt had an interesting story and a cool locale, but felt a little lacking, and Point Lookout added a ton of additional content with the main quest being one of those over the top stupid quests that Beth actually does well.
Of the DLC's, I'd say half were forgettable, but still fun minus Dead money and Zeta which sucked.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 17, 2016, 01:23:55 am
Post by: Glloyd on February 17, 2016, 01:30:43 am
wait what's mothership zeta tier mean
Zeta almost made me stop playing Fallout 3. To be fair, it was the last DLC I played. However, at that point I was at the expanded level cap from Broken Steel, and the leveling on the aliens was fucked so each of them took what seemed like hundreds of shots to kill with even the strongest weapon in the game, so the whole thing turned into this boring slog down a linear pathway of copypasted scenery. And, unlike most of the other DLCs, you couldnt just return to the Wasteland, but instead had to finish the entire thing. There was no story to it, no substance, no exploration, just a boring linear quest populated by bullet sponge enemies.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 17, 2016, 01:34:25 am
i don't think i've ever actively disliked something in a game, so don't take my word for it, but i liked zeta. especially because ALIENS!!! TIME TRAVEL!!! LASER GUNS!!!!!!
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on February 17, 2016, 01:44:05 am
look at this guy here being objectively wrong :^(In a year or two if any of it was even worth buying, it'll all be $5. If it's not worth it I'm out $0. Fuck preorders.TBH I'd assumed that it'd be like 3/NV, with 3-4 major DLCs with their own new map area and set of quests.
Most of the dlc for 3/NV was forgetable. I doubt there will even be $20 worth of good dlc by the end of 4's life.
No but seriously, NV's DLC's were all great. Except for Honest Hearts, that was a swing and a miss besides Joshua Fucking Graham. I don't even like Dead money and can tell you it's not forgettable. Lonesome Road was a badass send-off to the DLC plotline ending in what felt like something straight out of the original Fallout/Fallout 2, and Old World Blues was a hilarious good time that actually had some dark undertones-Like explanations for many of the fucked up shit you found on your way there. Like the Sierra Goddamn madre.
Fallout 3's was... Yeah, pretty forgettable. Except Zeta. But Zeta was bad. It was unforgettable in its bleeghhhness. Hell, Broken Steel had a fucking giant robot so I'll give it that.
Rant over.
Post by: Glloyd on February 17, 2016, 02:12:57 am
but you got three (six counting uniques) different cool weapons from it, and lame security batons
i don't think i've ever actively disliked something in a game, so don't take my word for it, but i liked zeta. especially because ALIENS!!! TIME TRAVEL!!! LASER GUNS!!!!!!
Honestly, the slog wasn't worth the weapons. I never even used them again because you couldn't replenish the ammo and there were other weapons of a similar quality that I had before doing that quest. The aliens were lame bulletsponges, and there were lasers in Fallout outside of Zeta. The people from different periods were fine, but they only made up a small portion of what was an incredibly disappointing 3-4 hours of dullness.
look at this guy here being objectively wrong :^(In a year or two if any of it was even worth buying, it'll all be $5. If it's not worth it I'm out $0. Fuck preorders.TBH I'd assumed that it'd be like 3/NV, with 3-4 major DLCs with their own new map area and set of quests.
Most of the dlc for 3/NV was forgetable. I doubt there will even be $20 worth of good dlc by the end of 4's life.
No but seriously, NV's DLC's were all great. Except for Honest Hearts, that was a swing and a miss besides Joshua Fucking Graham. I don't even like Dead money and can tell you it's not forgettable. Lonesome Road was a badass send-off to the DLC plotline ending in what felt like something straight out of the original Fallout/Fallout 2, and Old World Blues was a hilarious good time that actually had some dark undertones-Like explanations for many of the fucked up shit you found on your way there. Like the Sierra Goddamn madre.
Fallout 3's was... Yeah, pretty forgettable. Except Zeta. But Zeta was bad. It was unforgettable in its bleeghhhness. Hell, Broken Steel had a fucking giant robot so I'll give it that.
Rant over.
Exactly what I've been saying, except for 3. The Pitt and Point Lookout are not forgettable. Dead Money on the other hand, I only remember it because of how hard it sucked.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 17, 2016, 02:16:15 am
Yes, nonreplenishable ammo is an issue, but if you collect all of it that you possibly can and don't use the weapons too often, it isn't a major issue.
Post by: Krevsin on February 17, 2016, 02:49:26 am
Post by: Teneb on February 17, 2016, 04:51:48 am
Dead Money on the other hand, I only remember it because of how hard it sucked.Am I the only person in these forums who actually likes Dead Money?
It was a complete genre-shift. It went from your standard Bethsoft RPG to something closer to survival horror (the horror is perhaps stretching it a bit, though). The three(/four) companions were actually interesting and the areas were well designed in a way that added quite a bit of tension. And if you were for whatever reason playing hardcorde (as I was when I first did it), you'll find out that the Sierra Madre is perhaps the only place in the game where it actually really works. You need to keep scrounging for chips to get food and equipment, being anywhere outside will constantly drain your health and ghost people and traps get terrifying when you only get healing over time.
Post by: Krevsin on February 17, 2016, 04:57:05 am
What I did not like were the missions in which you had companions with you. Because if they died, so did you and the AI in NV.... well, least said, the better.
Post by: Glloyd on February 17, 2016, 05:13:34 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 17, 2016, 05:15:55 am
The companions aren't too bad, though. Usually they only died if I messed up or got caught by a few goddamn firebombs.
Post by: scriver on February 17, 2016, 06:41:32 am
In fact, the most interesting parts of OWB was the ones related to DM characters. Otherwise I found OWB to be mostly just a slot through boring, tedious enemies, gameplay-wise, with very little variation.
Post by: Krevsin on February 17, 2016, 07:48:52 am
Post by: MrWiggles on February 17, 2016, 07:57:45 am
I'm not super happy with the price hike, but there is enough of a grace period to get it before the price hike that its not that bad. I find myself more curious why Bethesda went with upping the cost of the season pass, instead of opting to making a season 2 pass, which we've seen some games do.
Post by: scriver on February 17, 2016, 08:47:14 am
I'm not super happy with the price hike, but there is enough of a grace period to get it before the price hike that its not that bad. I find myself more curious why Bethesda went with upping the cost of the season pass, instead of opting to making a season 2 pass, which we've seen some games do.
Because this way the can get a "get it before it gets more expensive!" rush of customers.
Post by: Teneb on February 17, 2016, 09:09:07 am
Post by: Telgin on February 17, 2016, 09:44:36 am
I mostly enjoyed OWB for its writing, wacky sense of humour and the zeerust turned up to 11. Gameplay-wise it was almost entirely fetchquesting through very difficult to traverse areas, especially on higher difficulties and with certain rebalance mods.
I was starting to wonder if I was the only person who had problems with Old World Blues, but then I didn't really like it much at all. Those difficult to traverse areas were just too irritating for me. If I see another robot scorpion that can absorb 3 magazines of ammo from my most powerful weapons I'll scream.
Actually, that is probably the biggest problem I've had with the DLC of all of the Fallout games. The combat difficulty is usually completely shot at high levels and it's very distracting for me. I know it's a game and I'm supposed to be able to look past it in favor of story or setting, but I don't take kindly to mutant hillbillies that can readily shoot through power armor with shotguns, unarmored tribals that can absorb an entire magazine of bullets before dying or unending trickles of robot scorpions that are even worse bullet sponges and, of course, can punch / sting / whatever the heck they did right through power armor.
At least I think I had power armor on then. I know half of the DLCs took your stuff away to try to maintain game balance, but then cranked enemy HP and damage up to 11 anyway.
Post by: BigD145 on February 17, 2016, 10:24:00 am
I'm not super happy with the price hike, but there is enough of a grace period to get it before the price hike that its not that bad. I find myself more curious why Bethesda went with upping the cost of the season pass, instead of opting to making a season 2 pass, which we've seen some games do.
Because this way the can get a "get it before it gets more expensive!" rush of customers.
"Not enough people are buying our season pass. Let's force them with a price hike and planned content valued at less than the price hike."
Don't preorder video games.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on February 17, 2016, 10:46:21 am
Post by: Bauglir on February 17, 2016, 12:28:04 pm
The game wont become unplayable because you don't have the DLC.Bethesda games are possibly the one situation where that's not a good argument. Many mods will depend on DLC, especially large overhauls whose creators don't want to bother maintaining multiple compatibility options. Given that the modding options are one of the biggest draws, that's kind of a big deal.
Post by: Krevsin on February 17, 2016, 12:33:32 pm
So wait for the DLC packs to come out and get them when they're on sale. And they most definitely will be on sale.The game wont become unplayable because you don't have the DLC.Bethesda games are possibly the one situation where that's not a good argument. Many mods will depend on DLC, especially large overhauls whose creators don't want to bother maintaining multiple compatibility options. Given that the modding options are one of the biggest draws, that's kind of a big deal.
Post by: Bauglir on February 17, 2016, 01:00:20 pm
Post by: Krevsin on February 17, 2016, 01:14:47 pm
Post by: Neonivek on February 17, 2016, 02:06:05 pm
Don't buy season passes without knowing what's coming up either, both have become rather prevalent lately (Specially those awful companies that produce multiple season passes)
Hey more then one Season pass is perfectly alright. I can certainly think of a few games where I'd be totally ok with the developers making a second run of amazing DLC.
But Season passes with lousy content though... isn't anything new: Shadows of Mordor!
And here is the thing. When you buy a season's pass you are telling the developer that they don't have to TRY to make the content worthwhile because you bought it already.
Post by: BigD145 on February 17, 2016, 05:29:53 pm
So wait for the DLC packs to come out and get them when they're on sale. And they most definitely will be on sale.The game wont become unplayable because you don't have the DLC.Bethesda games are possibly the one situation where that's not a good argument. Many mods will depend on DLC, especially large overhauls whose creators don't want to bother maintaining multiple compatibility options. Given that the modding options are one of the biggest draws, that's kind of a big deal.
I said exactly that last night. Skyrim with all expansions has been as low as $10 US. All DLC will be down to $5 inside of a year or two. Mods will take less time than that because there's a bunch of experienced people working in Bethesda's engines, but they won't be pretty or well made until the first of the steep sales.
Post by: Flying Dice on February 18, 2016, 09:06:07 pm
Spoiler: -_________________________________________________________- (click to show/hide)
I'd maymay about how it was inevitable, but what's the point?
Meanwhile with the non-adult filter on it's almost literally the exact same set of good mods I downloaded a couple months ago.
Post by: umiman on February 18, 2016, 09:26:10 pm
Complaining about nude mods is like complaining that Halal food has no pork in it.Spoiler: -_________________________________________________________- (click to show/hide)
I'd maymay about how it was inevitable, but what's the point?
Meanwhile with the non-adult filter on it's almost literally the exact same set of good mods I downloaded a couple months ago.
Post by: Flying Dice on February 18, 2016, 10:25:11 pm
Post by: umiman on February 18, 2016, 10:29:47 pm
Don't expect this to change until sometime after all the DLC have been released and Bethesda decide that then is a good time to release the mod tools.
Post by: Putnam on February 18, 2016, 11:19:40 pm
Post by: Glloyd on February 18, 2016, 11:44:21 pm
Yeah, nude mods are basically the only content of worth that can be made before the creation kit comes around. This is true of all Bethesda games.
To be fair, homemaker and some of the other settlement related mods are pretty good.
Post by: Putnam on February 18, 2016, 11:45:24 pm
Yeah, nude mods are basically the only content of worth that can be made before the creation kit comes around. This is true of all Bethesda games.
To be fair, homemaker and some of the other settlement related mods are pretty good.
Not for long.
I'm saying this from experience; Skyrim had Tytanis as the biggest and most popular mod from before the Creation Kit came out. Now it's... still around? I think??
Post by: Glloyd on February 19, 2016, 12:11:28 am
Yeah, nude mods are basically the only content of worth that can be made before the creation kit comes around. This is true of all Bethesda games.
To be fair, homemaker and some of the other settlement related mods are pretty good.
Not for long.
I'm saying this from experience; Skyrim had Tytanis as the biggest and most popular mod from before the Creation Kit came out. Now it's... still around? I think??
Yeah, obviously the stuff made with the creation kit will be better. My point was that there are good mods besides nude mods out there.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on February 19, 2016, 12:33:37 am
Don't buy season passes without knowing what's coming up either, both have become rather prevalent lately (Specially those awful companies that produce multiple season passes)
Hey more then one Season pass is perfectly alright. I can certainly think of a few games where I'd be totally ok with the developers making a second run of amazing DLC.
But Season passes with lousy content though... isn't anything new: Shadows of Mordor!
And here is the thing. When you buy a season's pass you are telling the developer that they don't have to TRY to make the content worthwhile because you bought it already.
Season passes were originally for ALL the DLC, not half content, not to mention most of the early ones mentioned what sort of DLC was being planned and as a result it didn't give the feeling of gambling.
As it has become, Season Passes have become a gamblers dream of hoping that the DLC they produce will end up worth the discounted price (If they are discounted anymore), and then you may have the 'privilege' of purchasing another Season Pass for content.
Post by: Krevsin on February 19, 2016, 02:19:49 am
Wait there are other mods than nude mods?Yeah, nude mods are basically the only content of worth that can be made before the creation kit comes around. This is true of all Bethesda games.
To be fair, homemaker and some of the other settlement related mods are pretty good.
Not for long.
I'm saying this from experience; Skyrim had Tytanis as the biggest and most popular mod from before the Creation Kit came out. Now it's... still around? I think??
Yeah, obviously the stuff made with the creation kit will be better. My point was that there are good mods besides nude mods out there.
what is this madness?
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on February 19, 2016, 04:35:35 am
Post by: umiman on February 19, 2016, 04:36:06 pm
Anything good for the UI yet? Like commanding companions or sorting loot better.AFAIK the only mods for that right now are the ones that rename items into something like "[junk] Piper's Supermutant Dildo" so they're sorted better.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 19, 2016, 04:43:10 pm
There are lots that change the XP gain "cha-ching" into something else or remove it altogether, I've noticed.
Post by: Flying Dice on February 19, 2016, 04:47:13 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on February 19, 2016, 04:48:41 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 19, 2016, 04:52:37 pm
Post by: Putnam on February 20, 2016, 02:59:07 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 20, 2016, 03:12:02 am
unless you mean minuteman assignments, because the fact that you actually travel to the settlement that needs help shows you're already committed to doing it
Post by: Sergius on February 23, 2016, 10:49:22 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on February 24, 2016, 05:11:09 am
Apparently if you complete a set of 7 Sentinel's armor pieces (and weapon), you become completely invulnerable while standing still... :o
At 15% damage reduction each that comes to a total of 105% damage reduction, so the numbers check out.
Not sure why I'd bother when I can just storm forward in power armour and unleash the PAIN TRAIN (perk) on my enemies though.
Post by: Putnam on February 24, 2016, 05:12:13 am
Post by: Grim Portent on February 24, 2016, 08:28:33 am
Fallout 3, Oblivion and IIRC Skyrim all had 85% damage reduction cap; you sure FO4 doesn't too?
That might not apply to the legendary modifier, though given the way that armour has been overhauled for FO4 it's possible that normal armour doesn't even have a cap anymore since the whole thing works differently.
Post by: Telgin on February 24, 2016, 09:41:05 am
Post by: Reudh on February 24, 2016, 02:17:10 pm
FO4 definitely has a scratch damage mechanic of some kind, but I think the cap is much higher than in previous games. Maybe a minimum of 1 damage from an attack or something. I know that standing around in power armor and eating pipe gun bullets still hurts me, despite the fact that my DT is many times that of the gun's damage, but it's insignificant damage.
That was in NV as well, I believe, though it applied more to enemies than to you. You'd still deal some damage if their DT exceeded your weapon's DAM, but it would be pretty paltry.
Post by: Teneb on February 24, 2016, 05:57:04 pm
And a reddit dataminer found the survival mode changes (http://www.pcgamer.com/fallout-4-survival-mode-changes-leak/), which were confirmed by Bethesda. No date on it, though.
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 24, 2016, 06:18:14 pm
Post by: Man of Paper on February 24, 2016, 07:16:23 pm
Survival Mode is PERFECT except for save points (what is this, 1995??) disabling fast travel, and disabling enemies on your compass. Like, with all the quests that take you halfway across the commonwealth, why in god's name would they make you walk the whole way?
It's an experiment funded by Vault Tec to see how long it takes for the average person to stare at a computer screen before they gouge out their eyeballs in frustration.
On a serious note, I was wondering when they'd add that in. I only ever played Hardcore in NV (started up, saw the option, shit a brick, and never turned back) and was disappointed when it wasn't an option for FO4.
Post by: MarcAFK on February 24, 2016, 08:34:11 pm
Just had my first run in with a hostile subway protectron, .8 seconds seriously? They die easily enough though.
F4 is soo much easier since I got out my 360 controller, though I probably need a bit more framerate.
Post by: umiman on February 24, 2016, 09:48:35 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 24, 2016, 09:57:19 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on February 24, 2016, 10:59:45 pm
Rarely actually need 'em, but I've been screwed by bugs and such too many times.
Post by: Sergius on February 24, 2016, 11:34:40 pm
FO4 definitely has a scratch damage mechanic of some kind, but I think the cap is much higher than in previous games. Maybe a minimum of 1 damage from an attack or something. I know that standing around in power armor and eating pipe gun bullets still hurts me, despite the fact that my DT is many times that of the gun's damage, but it's insignificant damage.
That was in NV as well, I believe, though it applied more to enemies than to you. You'd still deal some damage if their DT exceeded your weapon's DAM, but it would be pretty paltry.
Well, I just tested it (using cheats, of course). Added the mod to a MIRV fatman, and a full set of leather w/metal helmet. I fired at the air, and I didn't even lose a single hitpoint while standing still. I fired again, this time moving as the bombs fell, and died instantly.
Doesn't seem like it's very easy to get a legit legendary helmet tho.
Post by: umiman on February 24, 2016, 11:37:34 pm
Doesn't seem like it's very easy to get a legit legendary helmet tho.I've only ever seen the one. That stupid looking one.
Post by: nenjin on February 25, 2016, 12:07:26 am
Cause right now I have over 300 Stimpacks. And 100+ Radaway. And 100+ of every drug pretty much. 50+ of pretty much every food item in game. That's with only really using shit as a I need it. If I'm sustaining those kinds of numbers in Survival mode....it's not really survival in my book. Then again it's always been the problem that too much shit in FO and ES games is just lying around and it's too hard to remove it from the entire world so supplies actually feel scarce.
Quote
It's an experiment funded by Vault Tec to see how long it takes for the average person to stare at a computer screen before they gouge out their eyeballs in frustration.
Considering how settlement attacks work, yeah, I can see that being royally fucking frustrating. Strolling along the Glowing Sea when "Starlight Drive-in is being attacked!" Welp, so much for having a prayer of participating in that fight.
Post by: Krevsin on February 25, 2016, 09:35:54 am
Yaknow, like the carriages in Skyrim.
Post by: BigD145 on February 25, 2016, 10:35:14 am
While I despise the fast travel system in place for Skyrim, Fallout 3, New Vegas and Fallout 4, I'd at least expect they'd fill in the void by giving you the ability to fast travel between your settlements or certain points on the map for a cost.
Yaknow, like thecarriages in Skyrim.silt striders
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on February 25, 2016, 10:39:41 am
While I despise the fast travel system in place for Skyrim, Fallout 3, New Vegas and Fallout 4, I'd at least expect they'd fill in the void by giving you the ability to fast travel between your settlements or certain points on the map for a cost.
Yaknow, like the carriages in Skyrim.
Or by using the settlement trade routes you set up between the two, which could give you a sort of travel system.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on February 25, 2016, 01:44:50 pm
I don't trust Bethesda quicksaves after the last time they fucked me. I maintain a rotation of five savefiles for my currently-active character; the oldest is the one I loaded into at the start of the session, and it doesn't get overwritten until I need to save for the first time in the next session. Another is for major progress points (quest completion &c.), and the last three are a regular rotation for things like entering/exiting interiors, starting/finishing fights, &c. Quicksave is for every time I kill a couple dudes.Due to playing NV heavily modded, I used quicksave literally everytime I left a cell.
Rarely actually need 'em, but I've been screwed by bugs and such too many times.
Post by: Gunner-Chan on February 25, 2016, 04:21:11 pm
Due to playing NV heavily modded, I used quicksave literally everytime I left a cell.
You would of crashed far, far less by using normal saves less frequently.
Quicksaves are broken as shit in NV and oblivion and tend to corrupt in very minor ways you wont notice right away.
Post by: Putnam on February 25, 2016, 07:01:36 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on February 25, 2016, 08:42:48 pm
butDue to playing NV heavily modded, I used quicksave literally everytime I left a cell.
You would of crashed far, far less by using normal saves less frequently.
Quicksaves are broken as shit in NV and oblivion and tend to corrupt in very minor ways you wont notice right away.
but it worked more :v
It was mostly just when the game wouldn't load up a cell. So I saved before I left, usually.
Post by: Yoink on February 25, 2016, 09:33:41 pm
Survival Mode is PERFECT except for save points (what is this, 1995??) disabling fast travel, and disabling enemies on your compass. Like, with all the quests that take you halfway across the commonwealth, why in god's name would they make you walk the whole way?The latter two of those sound awesome!
Is this coming out around the same time as the DLC, or what? I wasn't paying attention until this post.
I hate fast travel so very much, but I get too impatient to not use it when it's available. >.>
Post by: Rolan7 on February 25, 2016, 10:53:53 pm
Post by: Man of Paper on February 26, 2016, 12:15:39 am
I dunno how I feel about how close that is to accurate.
Post by: scriver on February 26, 2016, 01:44:08 am
As for fast travel, the game just isn't designed to be used without it. I often go for long stretches without fast traveling, but the thought of having no fast traveling at all sits ill with me - skipping uninteresting downtime through already explored areas isn't "unimmersive".
It looks like they combined hunger and thirst into one meter? I guess that could be alright. I like the ammo weight stuff, but then again I already drop ammo and drugs off at my base so I don't carry too much of either at the start of every outventure.
Post by: MarcAFK on February 26, 2016, 07:26:52 am
Those guys really should be able to defend themself without needing me to bend spacerime to get there immediately. Speaking of, I just had my first settlement attack, I lost 1 of the 2 guys at ten pines bluff but got an awesome .38 spamming death cannon from a super mutant, so I can finally get rid of those formerly useless ammo.
I might as well start building defences in places other than sanctuary..... I suppose....
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 26, 2016, 07:58:59 am
2. Sell .38 ammo.
3. Profit.
Post by: umiman on February 26, 2016, 02:13:00 pm
I made surgeries give like.... 1000 happiness so I don't have to deal with that shit where if you don't show your face in a settlement after awhile, its happiness starts dropping rapidly.
I disabled settlement attacks completely. I was tired of having to rescue every single settlement every 10 seconds even though they all have more than 200 defense levels each (I have every single settlement in the game, which means neverending attacks).
I removed all settlement build limits, because fuck that shit.
Of course, there are still a ton of bugs regarding them. I have to console move settlers way more than I want to after they get stuck somewhere or bug off the face of the earth. I have to manually move the special named NPCs because they're bugged to not show up as well. I have to manually remove corpses, goo piles, etc. because they're permanent for some reason. I still have the issues where occasionally settlement stats can go haywire even though I no longer have any TVs are anything that should be causing the problem.
Settlements are a complete shitshow.
Post by: Man of Paper on February 26, 2016, 02:36:51 pm
Post by: miauw62 on February 26, 2016, 04:16:18 pm
I disabled a lot of settlement stuff in my game because there's way too much shit with it.It just works. (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yvGXCisAaR4)
I made surgeries give like.... 1000 happiness so I don't have to deal with that shit where if you don't show your face in a settlement after awhile, its happiness starts dropping rapidly.
I disabled settlement attacks completely. I was tired of having to rescue every single settlement every 10 seconds even though they all have more than 200 defense levels each (I have every single settlement in the game, which means neverending attacks).
I removed all settlement build limits, because fuck that shit.
Of course, there are still a ton of bugs regarding them. I have to console move settlers way more than I want to after they get stuck somewhere or bug off the face of the earth. I have to manually move the special named NPCs because they're bugged to not show up as well. I have to manually remove corpses, goo piles, etc. because they're permanent for some reason. I still have the issues where occasionally settlement stats can go haywire even though I no longer have any TVs are anything that should be causing the problem.
Settlements are a complete shitshow.
Post by: Teneb on February 26, 2016, 05:18:37 pm
I disabled a lot of settlement stuff in my game because there's way too much shit with it.Build limit aside, what mods (or console commands) did you use for the happiness and attacks "fixes"?
I made surgeries give like.... 1000 happiness so I don't have to deal with that shit where if you don't show your face in a settlement after awhile, its happiness starts dropping rapidly.
I disabled settlement attacks completely. I was tired of having to rescue every single settlement every 10 seconds even though they all have more than 200 defense levels each (I have every single settlement in the game, which means neverending attacks).
I removed all settlement build limits, because fuck that shit.
Of course, there are still a ton of bugs regarding them. I have to console move settlers way more than I want to after they get stuck somewhere or bug off the face of the earth. I have to manually move the special named NPCs because they're bugged to not show up as well. I have to manually remove corpses, goo piles, etc. because they're permanent for some reason. I still have the issues where occasionally settlement stats can go haywire even though I no longer have any TVs are anything that should be causing the problem.
Settlements are a complete shitshow.
Post by: nenjin on February 26, 2016, 07:07:38 pm
They're just very Bethesda. There's a lot of emphasis on granular management with little to no pay off for doing so other than aesthetic satisfaction (which admit it, their fanbase has basically confirmed that is at least 30% of what the ultimately give a shit about.)
Unlike say, survival, I think settlements are a good baseline system for modders to work on. A good settlement assault mod would immediately make all work you put in actually worth something.
Yeah if you have zero interest in construction and such, Settlements seem like a giant waste of effort by Bethesda. But in terms of extending (or padding) playtime for a lot of their players, I think it's a success. I know I'd probably be done with FO4 already after 108 hours if I hadn't spent probably 20 or 30 of those faffing around building walled settlements or my own personal 10-Penny Tower.
Post by: umiman on February 26, 2016, 07:51:47 pm
Hmm... here's my mod list for settlements:-x-Build limit aside, what mods (or console commands) did you use for the happiness and attacks "fixes"?
1. Better Generators
2. Better Vendor Stalls
3. Brighter Settlement Lights
4. Craftable Floor Supports
5. Happy Pills
6. Higher Settlement Budget
7. No Settlement Attacks
8. Quieter Settlements
9. Scrap dead things
10. Shaikujin's Better Alerts
11. Working Food Planters
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on February 26, 2016, 09:59:22 pm
Why do you hate it? It's a feasible not-bullshit way to get around Bethesda's classic fuckhueg map.Survival Mode is PERFECT except for save points (what is this, 1995??) disabling fast travel, and disabling enemies on your compass. Like, with all the quests that take you halfway across the commonwealth, why in god's name would they make you walk the whole way?The latter two of those sound awesome!
Is this coming out around the same time as the DLC, or what? I wasn't paying attention until this post.
I hate fast travel so very much, but I get too impatient to not use it when it's available. >.>
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 26, 2016, 10:32:09 pm
Post by: Sergius on February 26, 2016, 10:37:45 pm
Post by: nenjin on February 26, 2016, 10:44:38 pm
I mean, I'd be down but only if survival really pans out which it doesn't sound like it will, at least to the degree I desire. I can get into a long-play of a game where just getting somewhere is a night's gameplay. But not if the things that are supposed to make it memorable are just as flimsy as the normal mode balance.
Post by: Krevsin on February 27, 2016, 01:44:19 am
I personally hate it because it's indicative of a larger problem, i.e. Bethesda can't design a world particularly well. It's a crutch to help you get around an impossibly huge world that has been structured in such a way that you need to fast travel from anywhere to anywhere because you cannot reasonably put in a point-to-point fast travel system.Why do you hate it? It's a feasible not-bullshit way to get around Bethesda's classic fuckhueg map.Survival Mode is PERFECT except for save points (what is this, 1995??) disabling fast travel, and disabling enemies on your compass. Like, with all the quests that take you halfway across the commonwealth, why in god's name would they make you walk the whole way?The latter two of those sound awesome!
Is this coming out around the same time as the DLC, or what? I wasn't paying attention until this post.
I hate fast travel so very much, but I get too impatient to not use it when it's available. >.>
A well designed world (with far better fast travel), for example the Witcher 3 is constructed in such a way that most quests are located a reasonable walking distance from fast travel points with the player having a method of getting to faraway places quickly by alternate means (i.e. horse) and the world is structured to accommodate that.
I also hate Bethesda's fast travel because it breaks my immersion and becomes a "get out of jail free" card and it often means I only ever see neat things out in the wild a few times and I miss a lot of the details and world-building that went into the game. In fact it often feels like the game was constructed with tons of neat little points of interest and fun locations that were never meant to be seen as most of the time I just fast travel from point to point and miss all the things in between.
However, disabling the fast travel system without providing a point-to-point fast travel and a method for players to get around faster (a motorcycle or a speedy power armor thing) will only result in frustration because like I said, Bethesda's world design is kinda shit and built with "anywhere to anyplace" fast travel in mind.
Post by: NullForceOmega on February 27, 2016, 04:17:03 am
Post by: Teneb on February 27, 2016, 12:48:36 pm
So after taking a closer look at the recent patches notes, I saw that Bethesda claimed to have fixed Preston's Radiant quest spam. Hoping to finally be able to put the massive backlog of quests he had already buried me under to rest, I fired up F4 and proceeded to knock them out. So, of course, the instant I turn in the first quest he hit me with another, I turn in the next, and get hit with another, then another, and another. Great job, 'thesda, really feeling the effort you put into fixing that issue. On the other hand I did actually enjoy messing around with some of the more interesting mods I've been downloading, so not a total loss.Unless you mean the beta patch, I don't think it has been actually released yet.
Post by: NullForceOmega on February 27, 2016, 01:59:28 pm
Post by: Teneb on February 29, 2016, 06:00:10 pm
Spoiler: If you don't want to click the link (click to show/hide)
Post by: nenjin on February 29, 2016, 06:37:02 pm
People are always saying your heavily defended settlements never get attacked.
Well, game proved that wrong last night.
I've been fortifying Sanctuary Hills since the start of the game, more than 120 hours. It's got only 2 open entrances to the actual town, all guarded by 4+ HMG turrets. Snipers patrolling the walls. Snipers looking down from my Ten Penny Tower. Its Defense Score is something like 150.
So I get a notice that Sanctuary Hills is now being attacked and I think "Oh, sweet. Finally get to put these defenses to use." The only other attack at that settlement occurred like 60 hours ago when I had just the walls built. So I was pretty excited.
I fast travel to town and step out from under the awning where the fast travel point is. Instantly I hear close gun fire and, I shit you not, turn to watch a bullet contrail pass literally by my face. And so I think "Great, they're inside the walls." Not the first time I've seen that happen. So I pull out my Flare Gun and fire a round off into the sky and draw another weapon and prepare to defend.
And then I hear Preston go "What are you doing?"
I'm a little confused, because it's pretty obvious I'm trying to save Preston's worthless hide along with all the other NPCs. I hear more gunfire, my HMG turret on the roof of a house chattering away, right where the last attack came in. So I ignore Preston and head up there.
As soon as I make the roof, the turret stops firing. I use VATS to search for another target....but see none available. That's unusual, I think, on several levels. I go down to the ground and begin searching for bodies. And I search for a while. Eventually I find one, ONE, synth corpse and a couple orphaned laser pistols.
Now, I had faffed around for about 3 minutes after getting notified the Settlement was under attack so I could finish the quest I was on. And I did fast travel halfway across the map. But in all other Settlement Defenses, I've never showed up in the middle of a fight or right at the end, regardless of how long I took to get there.
Part of me wanted to be mad. I wanted to see all my turrets open up and my NPC settlers shooting and fighting to defend their home! But then it kinda hit me. I built this ridiculously over-fortified settlement so I wouldn't *have* to fight to defend it myself, and by god, it seems to work. It's probably just a spawning/programming error, but it still struck me as funny from the NPCs perspective: Here comes the General, sprinting into town, sweat pouring down his face, shouting "TO ARMS, TO ARMS" and firing his flare gun to call in more support.....and he's like half a day late to the party.
Meanwhile, about 7 Minutemen also show up moments after the Synth died to the HMG and say, ironically "Did we miss all the fun?" Yes, yes you did. And where the fuck where you guys at the Slog when I had to fight off 10+ Gunners with nothing but some not-equipped Ghoul Settlers?
I'm really looking forward to Settlement Attack mods. Right now they seem completely arbitrary. Nordhagen Beach with 3 people living there gets attacked by 4 Raiders. Ok, that seems legit. But then Finch Farm with 3 people living there gets attacked by 10+ Raiders. Covenant with 14 people living there gets attacked by 5 raiders, while Sanctuary Hills, the most defended and populated settlement, gets attacked by what appears to be 4 Synths. Abernathy Farm with 3 people living there gets attacked by 10 Super Mutants. Starlight Drive-In with 1 guy living there (and a provisioner at that) gets 10+ Super Mutants. It's like it's completely random what the game throws at Settlements or which ones it chooses to attack. When the attacking forces actually make sense for what they're attacking, and you get time to prepare for really big assaults, that shit is going to be great. (And probably meltdown weaker PCs.) Right now it seems like I'm either fighting too many guys at an undeveloped settlement where I'm being shot from all directions, or fighting no guys at a well-defended or grossly overdeveloped settlement.
Post by: Teneb on February 29, 2016, 07:17:04 pm
Post by: nenjin on February 29, 2016, 07:30:02 pm
Additionally, there's bugs. I opened my map the other night and saw Sanctuary Hills had 31! settlers, up from 17. I fast travel there, open the workshop menu and it's back to 17. *shrug*
Unrelated, I really enjoyed....
Spoiler: Vault-Tech Salesmen (click to show/hide)
Post by: umiman on February 29, 2016, 07:35:15 pm
Spoiler: Vault-Tech Salesmen (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: His purpose (click to show/hide)
Post by: Teneb on February 29, 2016, 07:36:25 pm
Post by: nenjin on February 29, 2016, 07:37:48 pm
Spoiler: Vault-Tech Salesmen (click to show/hide)Spoiler: His purpose (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Well, the new patch screwed something up for me. Assets were missing (mostly walls) from my save, so I decided to start a new game... and crash. So I disabled all mods, still crash. Checking integrity, but still.
Welp. Good thing I won't be playing FO4 til this weekend.
Post by: BigD145 on March 01, 2016, 12:45:29 am
Well, the new patch screwed something up for me. Assets were missing (mostly walls) from my save, so I decided to start a new game... and crash. So I disabled all mods, still crash. Checking integrity, but still.
Your mods are probably version dependent. Disabling mods in a Bethesda game? You're just asking for ctd's.
Post by: Teneb on March 01, 2016, 05:28:56 am
Disabling mods and trying to load, yeah that's asking for ctds. I was trying to start a new game, though.Well, the new patch screwed something up for me. Assets were missing (mostly walls) from my save, so I decided to start a new game... and crash. So I disabled all mods, still crash. Checking integrity, but still.
Your mods are probably version dependent. Disabling mods in a Bethesda game? You're just asking for ctd's.
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 01, 2016, 06:08:42 am
Post by: Rolan7 on March 05, 2016, 11:17:51 pm
http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/498017185281684601/899AEC6C66D18B42DC6DDBC5436A3599A2A9433B/
My character, which I haven't played in a while, takes a breather in respect of such ruggedness:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=580230511
Seriously, my brother STILL FUCKING HASN'T VISITED THE GODSDAMN INSTITUTE
HE PLAYS A LOT
I keep begging him to do the main storyline but no
THIS ISN'T OBLIVION, FUCK
Post by: umiman on March 05, 2016, 11:24:57 pm
Seriously, my brother STILL FUCKING HASN'T VISITED THE GODSDAMN INSTITUTEI haven't either. I'm level 88. I only just finished with the glowing sea,
HE PLAYS A LOT
I keep begging him to do the main storyline but no
THIS ISN'T OBLIVION, FUCK
Post by: Rolan7 on March 05, 2016, 11:28:19 pm
In oblivion, sure, the main quest was meh. In FO3, I guess it was meh (but you need to find your father!)
In FO4?
I don't even have any kids and I felt the pull.
I mean, is forming settlements really worth ANYTHING? Modded Minecraft is 10x better, shit.
Post by: Gunner-Chan on March 05, 2016, 11:32:20 pm
In FO4?
I don't even have any kids and I felt the pull.
In comparison, I felt kinda annoyed that I get a pretty much completely defined character and it made me prefer wandering around and just doing whatever.
Your brother probally feels the same way, the main quest in fallout 3 was honestly done better. And that one was terrible.
Post by: JimboM12 on March 06, 2016, 12:11:12 am
I mean, is forming settlements really worth ANYTHING? Modded Minecraft is 10x better, shit.
In the base game, settlements are really only for artillery (if you can get the enemies into the beaten zone) and cap farming.
With mods tho, it becomes a necessary component of making a new faction come alive, as each settlement united with the Minutemen begin spawning patrols (also includes purchase-able guards for settlements and hire-able followers too) between the settlements and allows the player to summon a full fire-team of leveled allies for those hard encounters, with the included reasons above still valid.
Seriously, why dafuq didn't Beth make the Minutemen perform this way in the first place, I don't know. The Brotherhood gets its own patrols and a fun-ish fast travel option. The Institute has a few dungeons it owns. The Railroad kinda makes sense why it don't have much. The Raider gangs spawn in checkpoints and you'll occasionally get them raiding settlements (same with the upgraded version of raiders: the Gunners). Each Faction has its own thing, but the Minutemen pretty much consist of the player and Preston. Now you'll occasionally run into them clearing areas along the roads like the Brotherhood and actually feel like a damn faction.
Mod in question: http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/6443/?
Post by: Rolan7 on March 06, 2016, 12:15:18 am
Yeah.
Well I mean, I rank FO3 and NV about the same. But yes, FO3 defined your character concept and gave you a family member to chase.
NV... Gave you you a job, and a nemesis to chase.
It's not all that different, but NV was looser sure.
The bigger element is that NV did a better job at making a believable, and CONFLICTED world. Two sides, good and evil, sure... But also anarchic side-options, forces of chaos biting at the heels. And you could make New Vegas a free state if you so chose, thanks to Benny being a fucking stupid fuckable sexy idiot.
In FO3 with the water choice it was more "Do the stupid evil thing or do the obvious nice thing?". New Vegas gave actual choices.
Yet FO3 was more of a RPG, with better RPG mechanics.
Nothing's perfect.
That's the damn problem, isn't it.I mean, is forming settlements really worth ANYTHING? Modded Minecraft is 10x better, shit.
In the base game, settlements are really only for artillery (if you can get the enemies into the beaten zone) and cap farming.
[But mods]
Post by: JimboM12 on March 06, 2016, 12:18:24 am
[But mods]That's the damn problem, isn't it.
With Beth-made games always, my bruddah, always.
Post by: Reudh on March 06, 2016, 01:36:45 am
Spoiler: Grortybonk T. Hammerstuff (click to show/hide)
Post by: umiman on March 06, 2016, 02:06:15 am
I really don't understand.Is it so strange?
In oblivion, sure, the main quest was meh. In FO3, I guess it was meh (but you need to find your father!)
In FO4?
I don't even have any kids and I felt the pull.
I mean, is forming settlements really worth ANYTHING? Modded Minecraft is 10x better, shit.
I mean, some arseholes on this thread spoiled the entire thing without using spoiler tags and I caught a glimpse of it back then so I don't give a shit anymore.
Not to mention some of the side missions are pretty cool. Valentine's shit while exceptionally tedious was super fun and I'm stoked that the DLC is more of him. I really liked the mad scientist thing with the asylum. The only reason I'm even bothering to move forward with the main quest is that I have to do it to progress the game's world state so I can do more of the side missions.
Post by: Putnam on March 06, 2016, 02:57:32 am
...I guess the villain is the specific part I like. All of Mankar Camoran's dialogue is raw, first-draft Michael Kirkbride writing set to Terence Stamp's voice. There's a sort of accidental batshit quality to it that can't be replicated elsewhere. I mean, except maybe in, uh, other Bethesda writing, but really Bethesda's writing in general has a problem with being uninspired as opposed to rough and full of mistakes and weird like Camoran's is (I think he gets every single plane of Oblivion he mentions) wrong, isn't that amazing?).
FO3's main plot was bad. It was like they tried to hit all the stuff Fallout and Fallout 2 did but completely misunderstood that stories are made of events rather than things (which, now that I think of it, is Bethesda's style of worldbuilding nowadays anyway, huh, things instead of events) and also added your dad who knows you better than you do to try to make up for it.
FO4's plot feels like they tried to go New Vegas but still didn't get the memo about things. I'm also not sure if they realize that competent villains are cooler than incompetent ones. Actually, now that I think of it, that's always a problem with Bethesda. Dagoth Ur yells at you impotently as you whack away at the Heart, Mankar Camoran and his sister-daughter (he who enters paradise enters his own mother, AE ALMA RUMA) fight like slightly above average enemy mages, Jygallag is actually mildly interesting of a fight, since there's something of a puzzle element to it with the crystals, but he's still just a big humanoid, Umaril is definitely a big humanoid, Fallout 3's final encounter is against an ordinary human being with little armor and nothing special to him whatsoever, Skyrim's final boss is a slightly more threatening than usual dragon and Dragonborn's final boss is basically a slightly more threatening than usual dragon priest. Goddamn. Fallout's final boss is The Master and Fallout 2's is a beefed up (!!)) super mutant in power armor.
I only listed what I've actually played enough to be familiar with, there.
Post by: scriver on March 06, 2016, 06:58:31 am
I mean, is forming settlements really worth ANYTHING? Modded Minecraft is 10x better, shit.
In the base game, settlements are really only for artillery (if you can get the enemies into the beaten zone) and cap farming.
With mods tho, it becomes a necessary component of making a new faction come alive, as each settlement united with the Minutemen begin spawning patrols (also includes purchase-able guards for settlements and hire-able followers too) between the settlements and allows the player to summon a full fire-team of leveled allies for those hard encounters, with the included reasons above still valid.
Seriously, why dafuq didn't Beth make the Minutemen perform this way in the first place, I don't know. The Brotherhood gets its own patrols and a fun-ish fast travel option. The Institute has a few dungeons it owns. The Railroad kinda makes sense why it don't have much. The Raider gangs spawn in checkpoints and you'll occasionally get them raiding settlements (same with the upgraded version of raiders: the Gunners). Each Faction has its own thing, but the Minutemen pretty much consist of the player and Preston. Now you'll occasionally run into them clearing areas along the roads like the Brotherhood and actually feel like a damn faction.
There are Minutemen patrols in the vanilla content. I've run in to them every so often as I fast travel to different settlements.
Post by: Sirbug on March 06, 2016, 08:40:53 am
I got so uneasy about faction choice by now, I dropped game altogether, but that's not the point.
Post by: Krevsin on March 06, 2016, 01:38:34 pm
I don't really like boss fights. I also think F4 plot structure is an improvement over Vegas. In Vegas branches got cut off very early so I didn't really get a good chance to get familiar with factions. In F4 they run concurrently.Personally I feel the fact that you can run with whichever faction you want really feels weird and too gamey at certain times.
I got so uneasy about faction choice by now, I dropped game altogether, but that's not the point.
For example, the Railroad seem very eager to accept a distinguished BoS veteran in their midst, in spite of their strong opposition to the Brotherhood's views.
Post by: Glloyd on March 06, 2016, 10:28:28 pm
I don't really like boss fights. I also think F4 plot structure is an improvement over Vegas. In Vegas branches got cut off very early so I didn't really get a good chance to get familiar with factions. In F4 they run concurrently.Personally I feel the fact that you can run with whichever faction you want really feels weird and too gamey at certain times.
I got so uneasy about faction choice by now, I dropped game altogether, but that's not the point.
For example, the Railroad seem very eager to accept a distinguished BoS veteran in their midst, in spite of their strong opposition to the Brotherhood's views.
*a BoS veteran who is also a known supporter of the Institute.
Post by: Sirbug on March 07, 2016, 04:44:44 pm
I didn't experience this that way. There are probably some weirdness you could generate, but for me it was being a double agent torn between ethical consideration of Railroad and pragmatic simathy for The Institute. Brotherhood oddly enough is the designated "Bad Guy I would never join play along with even out of curiosity" for me.I don't really like boss fights. I also think F4 plot structure is an improvement over Vegas. In Vegas branches got cut off very early so I didn't really get a good chance to get familiar with factions. In F4 they run concurrently.Personally I feel the fact that you can run with whichever faction you want really feels weird and too gamey at certain times.
I got so uneasy about faction choice by now, I dropped game altogether, but that's not the point.
For example, the Railroad seem very eager to accept a distinguished BoS veteran in their midst, in spite of their strong opposition to the Brotherhood's views.
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 07, 2016, 08:29:47 pm
Post by: nenjin on March 07, 2016, 08:42:20 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on March 07, 2016, 10:42:33 pm
Post by: Telgin on March 07, 2016, 10:50:33 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on March 08, 2016, 12:13:29 am
Well. They're not. They are however douchebags except for Fallout 3's group which is now the FO4 group I think? Point is, they're really not that shit when they're coordinated and not being super-dicks.I still haven't played past the initial scene of the Institute but...
They're kinda douchey in FO4 though it's in direct response to the Institute abducting people and replacing them with synths, supposedly. And also definitely filling the area with murderous killbots. So they don't trust synths or the Institute.
And they don't trust super mutants because East Coast super mutants are idiotic cannibalistic kidnappers, with like 2 (possibly temporary) exceptions.
As for ghouls, I never actually saw them do anything hostile towards a non-feral ghoul. But maybe in light of the killer death bots and super mutants everywhere, they may be rude to a ghoul you bring onto their high-security fortress. (Particularly since it's probably Hancock, I mean, the guy runs a weird libertarian commune and is chill with his cohorts being murdered, sometimes by his own hand. I wouldn't trust him.)
Basically they aren't so bad in FO4, but were never bad in the other games either. Just disrespectful until you earn respect, which seems to rub some gamers the wrong way (mainly thinking about my brother here, not you).
Edit: Oh but it is funny how they keep dying because they suck at vertibirds. Also the first time my brother showed me the vertibird travel system, it flew straight through a tree. Only didn't die because apparently it just noclips when you're in it.
Post by: Grim Portent on March 08, 2016, 08:51:12 am
Maxson's generally dickish behaviour comes as a result of being raised in the Capitol Wasteland, which was more of a mess than the NCR region they lived in on the west coast. He was appointed to be leader after a number of ineffectual Elders kept making bad decisions while trying to keep to Lyons' philosophy of helping people and being guardians of the wasteland settlements. Maxson basically said 'screw that shit' and decided that it was more practical to focus on scouring the wasteland of mutants, feral ghouls and other such threats. He also managed to get the more traditional Outcasts back into the fold, which probably affected the rest of the Brotherhood's outlook on things.
Since the Brotherhood had been struggling under previous Elders they took to this new more authoritarian rhetoric promising change like ducks to water. There's an element of historical revisionism among the Brotherhood in FO4, some of the NPCs comment in passing that Lyons was a weak and bad leader, even though he was quite popular, if controversial, among them in FO3.
The Brotherhood of FO4 are different from the other versions in that they're basically an authoritarian military junta lead by a demagogue. They do care about civilian life to a certain extent, but they place their own needs and goals above the sanctity of human life. Compare to the west coast Brotherhood who cared about people, protecting technology from the ravages of time and were willing to make deals with other groups, and were lead by a council of the oldest members, and to the FO3 east coast Brotherhood who placed protecting people above technology and had a largely civilian leadership headed by their oldest member who held his rank as a result of the traditional power structure they had left behind.
Post by: BFEL on March 08, 2016, 08:53:59 am
They'd generally survive 100x better if they didn't use vertibirds. Vertibird crash has to be far and away the primary cause of KIA reports among the BoS.METAL MAN NO FLY
IF METAL MAN MEANT TO FLY HAVE METAL WINGS
LIKE JETPACK
JETPACK FINE
So anyway have they seriously STILL not released the modding tools?
Post by: BigD145 on March 08, 2016, 10:21:11 am
They'd generally survive 100x better if they didn't use vertibirds. Vertibird crash has to be far and away the primary cause of KIA reports among the BoS.METAL MAN NO FLY
IF METAL MAN MEANT TO FLY HAVE METAL WINGS
LIKE JETPACK
JETPACK FINE
So anyway have they seriously STILL not released the modding tools?
They have shitty expansions to sell first.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on March 08, 2016, 11:28:52 am
They're releasing them some time in April.
Post by: Aseaheru on March 08, 2016, 12:33:19 pm
Killing-deathclaws-in-roughly-30-rounds fun.
Post by: umiman on March 08, 2016, 01:57:28 pm
I highly recommend the mod that amps the survivability of vertibirds. I don't know what the devs were thinking with these 1hp ones.They'd generally survive 100x better if they didn't use vertibirds. Vertibird crash has to be far and away the primary cause of KIA reports among the BoS.METAL MAN NO FLY
IF METAL MAN MEANT TO FLY HAVE METAL WINGS
LIKE JETPACK
JETPACK FINE
So anyway have they seriously STILL not released the modding tools?
Post by: MrWiggles on March 10, 2016, 08:04:04 pm
Then why are they releasing it in april, when they'll only have one dlc out by then?They'd generally survive 100x better if they didn't use vertibirds. Vertibird crash has to be far and away the primary cause of KIA reports among the BoS.METAL MAN NO FLY
IF METAL MAN MEANT TO FLY HAVE METAL WINGS
LIKE JETPACK
JETPACK FINE
So anyway have they seriously STILL not released the modding tools?
They have shitty expansions to sell first.
Post by: Glloyd on March 10, 2016, 08:26:54 pm
Then why are they releasing it in april, when they'll only have one dlc out by then?They'd generally survive 100x better if they didn't use vertibirds. Vertibird crash has to be far and away the primary cause of KIA reports among the BoS.METAL MAN NO FLY
IF METAL MAN MEANT TO FLY HAVE METAL WINGS
LIKE JETPACK
JETPACK FINE
So anyway have they seriously STILL not released the modding tools?
They have shitty expansions to sell first.
Shhhh, don't interrupt the circlejerk in its natural habitat.
Post by: MrWiggles on March 10, 2016, 10:36:41 pm
Post by: MarcAFK on March 11, 2016, 01:48:34 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 11, 2016, 06:36:28 am
Post by: Krevsin on March 11, 2016, 07:10:06 am
Post by: Teneb on March 14, 2016, 06:28:41 pm
Out on the 22nd of this month, it seems.
Post by: BigD145 on March 14, 2016, 06:54:16 pm
Post by: MrWiggles on March 14, 2016, 09:22:25 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 14, 2016, 09:38:29 pm
Post by: Glloyd on March 14, 2016, 09:49:39 pm
Joke DLC. Hmm. On the wrong side of the country, too.
Wrong side of the country?
Post by: Putnam on March 14, 2016, 10:24:06 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on March 14, 2016, 11:46:50 pm
If I were some poor fucker living in the Capital Wasteland, I'd be going to the commonwealth in a heartbeat. Same goes for the mojave, with the exception of New Vegas being relatively safe.
Post by: NullForceOmega on March 14, 2016, 11:58:18 pm
On another note, I'd just like to say that while I still believe the base game to be rather boring and in need of content, I actually do like the direction they tried to go with for F4 (not their nonsense plot, that still sucks.) But the decision to give players more control of their game experience through the distinct (though empty) factions, the simple but very useful weapons/armor mods, and the well intentioned but poorly executed settlement system was ultimately a good call by 'thesda.
If they do make a F5, all I really would like to see is some serious improvement in their writing, if they can pull that off then I could be happy with their vision for the franchise.
Post by: Sirbug on March 15, 2016, 12:01:46 am
because people can't walk across the wasteland, guysPeople travel across wasteland all the time. Not many of them, though.
If I were some poor fucker living in the Capital Wasteland, I'd be going to the commonwealth in a heartbeat. Same goes for the mojave, with the exception of New Vegas being relatively safe.
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 15, 2016, 12:03:33 am
Plus it could easily be a different guy than the original Mechanist. Who's to say this guy didn't steal the costume from Hubris Comics (much like the Silver Shroud's costume) and start amassing his robots before the game?
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on March 15, 2016, 12:25:23 am
I surprisingly, liked the look of that DLC. I'll probably pick it up sometime.This. All of this. I just want a New Vegas built in this game's engine so badly. SO BADLY. (with moar factions)
On another note, I'd just like to say that while I still believe the base game to be rather boring and in need of content, I actually do like the direction they tried to go with for F4 (not their nonsense plot, that still sucks.) But the decision to give players more control of their game experience through the distinct (though empty) factions, the simple but very useful weapons/armor mods, and the well intentioned but poorly executed settlement system was ultimately a good call by 'thesda.
If they do make a F5, all I really would like to see is some serious improvement in their writing, if they can pull that off then I could be happy with their vision for the franchise.
Post by: NullForceOmega on March 15, 2016, 12:26:55 am
Post by: Teneb on March 15, 2016, 05:37:18 am
Well, we can hope that 'thesda caves and lets Obsidian make another Fallout game.Or just let Kirkbride do all of the writing, rather than any of the other writers at Bethesda.
Sure, it'll be a new level of weird, but at least it'll be good writing.
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 15, 2016, 05:46:20 am
Post by: scriver on March 15, 2016, 06:17:40 am
Well, we can hope that 'thesda caves and lets Obsidian make another Fallout game.Or just let Kirkbride do all of the writing, rather than any of the other writers at Bethesda.
Sure, it'll be a new level of weird, but at least it'll be good writing.
Kirkbride's strong suit has never been plot or characters, though, which is mainly what I feel the Bethouts is missing the most of. He's very good at what he does but that does not make him an omnitalented writer.
Post by: Catmeat on March 15, 2016, 06:45:40 am
They should end fallout where it is now.
The only good next possibility would be that you grow up on the cali coast oil rig and you are not the chosen one. They wont do that because vaults are bethesdas thing, and needing to help everyone with a two headed cow farm.
They seem to be making the game toward the shooter/murderer audience, no options for non voilence any more no non leathal options, and the enemys respawning doing the same things when you killed them (the super mutants outside boston stadium, or every bandit group)
Its really weak programing and your actions only have surface conciquences.
Yeah I would have you a child of the enclave flown to the coast on a scouting mission as a coming of age mission, you would be with your friends who are generated around your character creation to have a sort of team balance. The senior officers would get shot/disabled and you and your team would have a choice on how to help them. High charisma would lead to the team looking to you to pursuade the team on what to do if its low cha and luck one of the team takes the officers weapon and perhaps the last working power armor and kills the officers leaving a few of you behind.
Creating two possible story arcs to begin with.
I would do many more than that
Like you could execute them and take the evil team members.
sure these arnt great starts to a game but its better than. Shaun!! Oh he must be a baby, i wont look at the terminal to see the time passed or even the logs.
No I wont even look for shaun actually because I feel like saving the same armed guard from the same bandits every two days.
Or that whoever kidnapped a baby from a vault either harvests it straight away leaving it dead or has good intentions for it...
I knew 2 missions in why somebody would take a pre war vault baby, and sure I get the wanting to save you child thing but it wasnt even a powerful story arc.
And im sure a doctor could have saved your partner with a gut shot then being re frozen. Hell if thats dlc il be ducking angry
Unless you didnt shut the door after stealing their ring.
Fuck its a bad story that they didnt even think what a real institute scientist team would think or act like. Synths, what a cop out
Post by: Neonivek on March 15, 2016, 06:53:39 am
The extent of which... Fallout 4 might as well not have actually happened as it doesn't affect anything.
Fallout 1-3 have large implications (of which the newer fallouts completely ignore the 3rd probably because the effect is TOO big). New Vegas was unimportant but intentionally so. 4? Storywise you can skip it entirely.
4 is an entirely self-contained story that could have taken place on Mars. Which is what kind of bugs me about it because well... It really felt like something that could have had lasting implications and a far reaching storyline... but it seems like After Fallout 3 they are just too afraid to actually develop a story anymore.
I fully expect in Fallout 5 will end the same as well.
Post by: Catmeat on March 15, 2016, 07:40:03 am
No custom ammo and all shotgun shells are one calibre? Wtf that is so.... no comment.
Settlers not being able to be named or even arriving with names or work preferences, did you guys talk to the hundreds of programers?
Raids... what raids, oh that squad of gunners? They wernt even wearing armor... leather you say... no no no bullets dont consider leather armor. Its just extra skin..
Oh look a raider in power armor attacking my settlement. Wow he broke through the turrets... now hes killing my ghoul body guard... wait no he didnt. The rapist drug addled insane raider didnt execute settler 13 while he was neeling before him ok well no need to because the guys armor peices have been destroyed and he will die soom as hes nearing my missiles range, boom ahh hes dead but now so is settler 13, ok thats fun.
Synth invaders ugh il make a thousand word post about that next..
"Hi im new here what can I help you with"
Seriously your new here, you look exactly like that guy over there, your not a synth are you?! Twin perhaps. I will call you settler 15 and i'll have you sleep in that building and work the new bar.. yes thats a bar silly, yes that hunk of wood with the sign saying bar.. oh of course you cant read....Later on well i better auto save my game, i mean sleep after all that crack I smoked... hey 15 what are you doing in my bed scattering my nice white pillows? Oh what! You drunk my last quantum. They dont make them any more and I couldnt possibly make one, i heard a rumour some person in DC can but Im not walking that way for a drink. I will go easy on you this time.
Next day, again 15 occupys my room, my solace in this irradiated shithole. Sir you need to get the fuck out of my room. Remove all your clothes sleep in this sleeping bag in the dirt with no roof and I will deal with you latter..
I killed him.
I fucking killed him so hard with a sledge hammer as it slept in my execution settlement.
Oh but I couldnt dismember him. Because the game is a total after thought. An after thought of the profit it generated.
Btw I did a pretty cool glitch in the game, i had all factions my allies even after getting the berilium agitator. They could have patched it but it was good il post it next instead of ranting
Post by: Catmeat on March 15, 2016, 07:50:33 am
Then I crafted plenty of jet fuel, jet, super jet ap boosters and got the atom cats paint for the t 50 jet pack with extra ap regen for sprinting as many ap boosts (anything to help)
Then i went to the building.. ahh whats it called, massive red one? Well im sure you guys know.
And i injested the boosts and jetpacked up the side of the building, as jet extends not only jump distance and jet pack boosts but it also allows greater control of the boosts.
For me the institute scientist lady who helps you do the quest apears out of nowhere and not in her rad proof suit, she even coments being in it stupid bitch.
Etc you get the agitator and yoila.
You can also enter the building b4 u get the key card and jetpack through the elevator gap and reach the top of the insise to get a set of named leg armor that negates fall damage, i already had a set though so i was disappointed.
So ther is my story.
I gave the agitator to the institute and the brotherhood stayed my friends
Just to clarify, you could probably do this at any point of the game and I had to land on a lot of ledges and clip a few things on the way up the building walls, and did it in 3rd person.
It wasnt easy and the game wasnt day one patched, ps4 if that matters.
And it took me a little finesse and time
Post by: NullForceOmega on March 15, 2016, 10:05:39 am
As for the rest of what you wrote, I actually cannot tell what you are trying to say here. A little formatting and organization goes a long way to helping get your point across.
Post by: BigD145 on March 15, 2016, 10:30:57 am
Yeah, the Mechanist was from Fallout 3. Canterbury Commons.
You're right. My bad. I forgot 3 was in DC. It's been awhile. 3 WAS the departure from the west coast. It's still joke dlc as the Mechanist was a joke.
Post by: Rolan7 on March 15, 2016, 10:36:19 am
I did love that Tuvok mentioned the expedition, even if he didn't really confirm anything at all. And I can't pretend they'll ever actually make it full-canon, even though I think the premise was very interesting. Both the initial period of protecting and recruiting from tribes, and the unexpected enemy threat. Not the Enclave for once, and you can actually recruit Super Mutants!
I need to actually play it, though, I really didn't get far myself... I wasn't used to playing old Fallout with multiple characters.
Post by: umiman on March 15, 2016, 10:41:52 am
Midwest_BoS_survivor_shedding_a_single_tear.tiffAlmost all the fun of Tactics came from the first half of the game. It got pretty crappy after the supermutants and raiders. So if you saw the supermutants, you didn't miss much. Unless you like killing hordes of boring Fallout robots for hours punctuated by the occasional super giant robot fight.
I did love that Tuvok mentioned the expedition, even if he didn't really confirm anything at all. And I can't pretend they'll ever actually make it full-canon, even though I think the premise was very interesting. Both the initial period of protecting and recruiting from tribes, and the unexpected enemy threat. Not the Enclave for once, and you can actually recruit Super Mutants!
I need to actually play it, though, I really didn't get far myself... I wasn't used to playing old Fallout with multiple characters.
Post by: NullForceOmega on March 15, 2016, 10:44:03 am
Post by: umiman on March 15, 2016, 10:47:58 am
Yah, Tactics was interesting, but right after the supermutants it just became a slog, the final mission was interesting, but also very strange. It was still a fun squad-based tactics game tho'.One thing I really liked in Tactics was how they'd pair you up with other teams or they'd talk about the exploits of all the other guys running around. Was pretty immersive and you didn't feel like you were solo-ing the entire game.
Post by: Krevsin on March 15, 2016, 01:05:51 pm
Post by: umiman on March 15, 2016, 01:07:07 pm
I kinda liked Tactics apart from the excessive gun porn and the stupid power armor design. Seriously that thing looks goofy.You didn't like to be the white power ranger with a cape?
Post by: Krevsin on March 15, 2016, 01:45:26 pm
I would if the power armor itself didn't look as insect-like as it did.I kinda liked Tactics apart from the excessive gun porn and the stupid power armor design. Seriously that thing looks goofy.You didn't like to be the white power ranger with a cape?
Same goes for the Enclave Power armor in FO3. That just looks kinda goofy.
I do however love myself some Enclave Power Armor from 2 and New Vegas. The X-01 in FO4 also looks amazing and is Enclave Power Armor in everything but the name.
Post by: umiman on March 15, 2016, 01:53:57 pm
Post by: Putnam on March 15, 2016, 11:39:55 pm
Fallout 1-3 have large implications (of which the newer fallouts completely ignore the 3rd probably because the effect is TOO big).
...what did Fallout 3 even do? Everything that happened in it was either not related to earlier games (the water in DC being irradiated, somehow) or already done in an earlier game (the Enclave/Super Mutant base being mostly destroyed)
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on March 16, 2016, 12:17:53 am
If I can ever get Desert Ranger armor that somehow works as Power Armor I will be a happy person. Fucking loved that armor.I would if the power armor itself didn't look as insect-like as it did.I kinda liked Tactics apart from the excessive gun porn and the stupid power armor design. Seriously that thing looks goofy.You didn't like to be the white power ranger with a cape?
Same goes for the Enclave Power armor in FO3. That just looks kinda goofy.
I do however love myself some Enclave Power Armor from 2 and New Vegas. The X-01 in FO4 also looks amazing and is Enclave Power Armor in everything but the name.
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 16, 2016, 05:53:48 am
Post by: Teneb on March 16, 2016, 05:55:32 am
The NCR can mass-produce power armor? :PEverything indicates that no. The desert ranger armour is not even power armour, it's "just" a riot suit. NCR scraps a lot of power armour, though, as seen with the salvaged ones.
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 16, 2016, 05:59:25 am
Post by: Sirbug on March 16, 2016, 06:08:43 am
Post by: Krevsin on March 16, 2016, 08:35:22 am
Fallout 3 and 4 were more about pacifying a hostile region in which a civilization may develop (the latter being more true in FO4's case). In FO3's epilogue (Broken Steel) not a lot has changed apart from the BoS having a reasonably-sized contingent at the water purifier and after the ending of FO4, things are more or less the same, which is why I'm not counting the post-main-quest-end fuckabouts in FO4 as canon because it reeks of being a "gamey" decision, i.e. "people want to roam the wastes pretty much indefinitely, so let's let them do that.
Post by: Sirbug on March 16, 2016, 08:46:17 am
Bethesda making another sequel would once again see that the world is changed off-screen from Fallout 4 status quo.
Post by: Neonivek on March 16, 2016, 09:31:42 am
Fallout 1 and 2 were actually about preservation of status quo. It didn't change the Wasteland, it prevented it from changing. Change happened off-screen, gradually. Fallout 3 was actually about changing status quo with all this purity stuff, but I didn't play into epilogue yet to see implications if any are present.
I'll put it this way. Fallout 1 and 2 changed things, mostly because the events in the game were so large that they couldn't be stopped simply be defeating the bad guy... Fallout 3 SHOULD have but they wimped out (Seriously the closest to a confirmation is a RUMOR...)
Fallout NV is about the fate of a single town.
And Fallout 4 completely unalters things because it wipes the slate clean AND gives an excuse why it can never affect anything outside the game it exists in.
The CLOSEST to Fallout 4 possibly having an outside effect is Fallout 3's reference to a Canadian Institute.
---
Basically imagine if in Fallout 1 they revealed that Super Mutants all had a bomb in their chests that would blow up in a year AND that they found a cure for virus that creates them and immunized the world.
That is... basically Fallout 4. You can actually just completely skip it.
Which isn't a bad thing, it really comes down to taste... but it feels like such a waste to not add on some lore... and to instead just try as hard as they can to be as self-contained as possible. It is like they absolutely refuse to let the setting change.
Post by: Sirbug on March 16, 2016, 09:48:21 am
Protagonist did tilt balance a bit, but only a bit. It could develop without him.
Post by: Rolan7 on March 16, 2016, 10:22:21 am
Like, if you don't rescue Tandi, there is no NCR. And people throughout Fallout 2 speak of the Vault Dweller's influence on their past.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on March 16, 2016, 01:26:24 pm
Post by: Krevsin on March 16, 2016, 05:08:43 pm
NV is less about a town, more about the fate of the entire mojave.More than the entire Mojave, the fate of the entire region is decided at Vegas's gates and the ending slides make kind of a big deal about this.
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 17, 2016, 07:23:14 am
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on March 17, 2016, 07:26:38 am
Post by: Neonivek on March 17, 2016, 08:26:10 am
NV is less about a town, more about the fate of the entire mojave.More than the entire Mojave, the fate of the entire region is decided at Vegas's gates and the ending slides make kind of a big deal about this.
That is a vague implication that ultimately means nothing.
Besides we all know that the canonical ending is "Neutral" where nothing happens :P
Post by: Rolan7 on March 17, 2016, 08:51:27 am
In a way it's a shame that they have to pick canon endings, but it's also cool because it lets new games build on the events of older ones. The options are so meaningfully divergent that they can't all be canon if the region is at all referenced later. I guess it's weird if you *never* rescued Tandi, then play Fallout 2 and hear "The Vault Dweller saved me and I built this republic!" but doesn't seem like that much of a problem to me.
Fallout 4 doesn't really do that though... It's practically stand-alone. NV did it perfectly, and FO3 did a decent job too (though many disagree).
Post by: Neonivek on March 17, 2016, 08:53:51 am
Post by: Krevsin on March 17, 2016, 08:56:14 am
Given how the entire theme of the NCR during the game is "Either we conquer the Strip and revitalize our economy or we fall further into decay" and how the entire theme of the Legion is "If the conquest train stops, we die" you are given very strong implications that this is a make-or-break scenario for both parties involved. The game plays this fact up quite a lot during your interactions with either side and is not at all vague about it. The ending slides may be vague about what ultimately happens to either faction, but the game itself is anything but.NV is less about a town, more about the fate of the entire mojave.More than the entire Mojave, the fate of the entire region is decided at Vegas's gates and the ending slides make kind of a big deal about this.
That is a vague implication that ultimately means nothing.
Besides we all know that the canonical ending is "Neutral" where nothing happens :P
So the canon ending which is neutral and where "nothing happens" is one where the NCR is stuck sliding into decay and the legion's conquest train is stopped dead in its tracks possibly causing its dissolution. :P
Post by: Neonivek on March 17, 2016, 08:58:57 am
Disgaea: The bad ending is USUALLY canon
Elder Scrolls: All the endings are canon
Post by: Rolan7 on March 17, 2016, 09:04:50 am
I would *love* if the bad endings were canon, though. Would be a perfect explanation for the wastes remaining wastelandy. I still think NV was a bit too civilized for my taste (though I ended up loving it anyway, it just wasn't what I expected from Fallout). The NCR and Legion both collapsing would be cool for a post-post apocalypse setting...
Post by: Egan_BW on March 17, 2016, 09:30:48 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 17, 2016, 09:33:29 am
Post by: Culise on March 17, 2016, 09:35:04 am
While the Second Battle was going on, an Unseen Super Bad Guy faction destroyed both their nerve centers?Or before, or even after - the Lonesome Road...
Spoiler: DLC spoilers (click to show/hide)
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 17, 2016, 09:38:35 am
Post by: Culise on March 17, 2016, 09:42:03 am
*two specific locations that technically only exist for the DLC, neither of which are the nerve centers of the involved factions.I thought the affected areas extended well beyond based on the ending text, and that the areas that can be reached are just the nearest fringes of the blast radius; going too far in either direction will end in a quick death.
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 17, 2016, 09:47:41 am
Post by: Culise on March 17, 2016, 11:04:31 am
Post by: Rolan7 on March 17, 2016, 11:46:31 am
I really can't see Lanius leading the Legion effectively, even if he is surprisingly well-spoken considering his backstory. The NCR... Has problems too. Losing this bloody, expensive war and then losing their president would probably be pretty destabilizing. Corporations like the water merchants, Crimson Caravan, and Van Graffs might take over entirely instead of being content with bribery.
Post by: Sirbug on March 17, 2016, 12:26:02 pm
Though it is possible to kill both Kimball and Caesar, even in the same game. I think there's even a bonus perk (or just achievement) for killing all the VIPs.You need to kill and eat them.
I really can't see Lanius leading the Legion effectively, even if he is surprisingly well-spoken considering his backstory. The NCR... Has problems too. Losing this bloody, expensive war and then losing their president would probably be pretty destabilizing. Corporations like the water merchants, Crimson Caravan, and Van Graffs might take over entirely instead of being content with bribery.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on March 17, 2016, 12:56:58 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on March 17, 2016, 08:32:25 pm
Well what do you expect? The really COOL way endings are handled in Disgaea or Elder Scrolls?Yes, because who does not love needlessly complicated plotlines? What a great and totally not asinine narrative choice! Why have a definitive, reasonable conclusion when all of them can be true!
Disgaea: The bad ending is USUALLY canon
Elder Scrolls: All the endings are canon
As for the bad endings being canon, I kind of like how Fallout does endings usually. The sequels just seem to be set in a further location. This is a good thing. (Except for FO1 and 2 in some ways. And NV. Ughghghh brain hurty.)
Post by: Sartain on March 17, 2016, 09:00:41 pm
I'd rather Fallout not dive into metaphysics (or time travel) to pull off the Elder Scrolls thing :P
I would *love* if the bad endings were canon, though. Would be a perfect explanation for the wastes remaining wastelandy. I still think NV was a bit too civilized for my taste (though I ended up loving it anyway, it just wasn't what I expected from Fallout). The NCR and Legion both collapsing would be cool for a post-post apocalypse setting...
Well if bad endings were canon then I guess the Master won, the whole southwest got conquered by the creatures of the apocalyptic future and yes, everyone's super mutants now ;)
Post by: Glloyd on March 17, 2016, 09:17:49 pm
Though it is possible to kill both Kimball and Caesar, even in the same game. I think there's even a bonus perk (or just achievement) for killing all the VIPs.
But in Fallout 4, you can't even kill caravan guards. Why did they think that was a good idea?
Post by: Rolan7 on March 17, 2016, 09:33:58 pm
Well if bad endings were canon then I guess the Master won, the whole southwest got conquered by the creatures of the apocalyptic future and yes, everyone's super mutants now ;)Yeah... That does pretty explicitly happen in the bad endings, although there could be scattered survivors.
Eventually the Master would notice out the infertility problem though, which might change matters?
I liked the canon endings they picked for FO1 better I think.
Post by: Putnam on March 17, 2016, 11:25:12 pm
Elder Scrolls: All the endings are canon
that happened once and it involved a big stompy robot that is pretty consistent about breaking everything whenever it shows up
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 17, 2016, 11:28:36 pm
Post by: Glloyd on March 17, 2016, 11:58:42 pm
Elder Scrolls: All the endings are canon
That only ever happened with Daggerfall, and it was because Bethesda is bad at writing their own lore.
Post by: Putnam on March 18, 2016, 12:09:28 am
Post by: Neonivek on March 18, 2016, 03:34:57 am
Elder Scrolls: All the endings are canon
That only ever happened with Daggerfall, and it was because Bethesda is bad at writing their own lore.
Morrowind also...
Post by: Putnam on March 18, 2016, 03:35:45 am
Post by: Krevsin on March 18, 2016, 05:34:06 am
Well what do you expect? The really COOL way endings are handled in Disgaea or Elder Scrolls?I was saying that your statement that the events of NV concern entirely the happenings of a single town are incorrect and pointing out that the game does in fact have far reaching consequences for the overall fluff. :P
Disgaea: The bad ending is USUALLY canon
Elder Scrolls: All the endings are canon
Personally, I'm quite fine with the neutral ending.
However, and this veers slightly into pet peeve territory, I absolutely abhor post-apocalyptic stasis, where everything is perpetually stuck at the "eating eachother's faces" stage. It's boring and nothing ever happens apart from "people's faces get eaten and/or shot up".
Post by: Neonivek on March 18, 2016, 06:34:08 am
For those who don't know... in Wasteland 2 they actually had started to turn the post-apoc around, have forms of government, established currency, industrial farming, Government funded police and military, research and development, factories...
And by all means the world of Wasteland is even MORE dangerous then Fallouts by leagues.
Then again... Wasteland 2s setting kind of kicks Fallout 3, NV, and 4's ass... BADLY!!! like... REALLY bad.
Post by: miauw62 on March 18, 2016, 10:11:31 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 18, 2016, 10:11:53 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on March 18, 2016, 10:23:06 am
Psh... what do you think this is? Wasteland?But all of those things you mention have been in at least fallout NV.
For those who don't know... in Wasteland 2 they actually had started to turn the post-apoc around, have forms of government, established currency, industrial farming, Government funded police and military, research and development, factories...
And by all means the world of Wasteland is even MORE dangerous then Fallouts by leagues.
Then again... Wasteland 2s setting kind of kicks Fallout 3, NV, and 4's ass... BADLY!!! like... REALLY bad.
Both Caesar's legion and particularly the NCR are forms of government.
NCR and Caesar's legion both have their own established currencies.
You can find sharecropper farms by New Vegas.
NCR military is pretty much definition of a government-run military, up to including Military Police.
Research station is held at the Archimedes station.
While factories aren't present in the Mojave for the NCR's equipment, that's fair enough, since they ship in troops and supplies from elsewhere that isn't a warzone.
Post by: Neonivek on March 18, 2016, 10:42:02 am
As well while they both have currency, they don't have established exchange rates associated with them.
They are kind of unsupported play money in all seriousness. Likely a way to delegate rations but their value is by all means open to interpretation. Which is why even within the NCR they often use the bottlecap system.
It is sort of a difference in scale.
---
However I will gamble that Sharecropper farms wasn't built by the NCR and isn't what provides food for the entire New Vegas.
---
Though everything else I just go through and go "Yeah but the scale is different" which is kind of the thing. Heck there was a research station in Fallout 3
But... they are always rag tag fruitless operations that don't go anywhere... usually ones they didn't build themselves but were patched together using lost-tech.
Mind you... I am totally moving Goalposts if this was a debate.
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 18, 2016, 10:54:56 am
As well while they both have currency, they don't have established exchange rates associated with them.Caps and dollars or caps and denarii have clear exchange rates, but they don't have dollars to denarii because, quite possibly, the NCR and Legion are at war? A little? Why would you need to exchange your enemy's currency for your own?
Post by: Glloyd on March 18, 2016, 11:21:13 am
Post by: Neonivek on March 18, 2016, 11:26:40 am
Have you played through Fallout 2 Neon?
Hey hey hey! I am excluding the good ones.
Post by: Glloyd on March 18, 2016, 11:37:37 am
Have you played through Fallout 2 Neon?
Hey hey hey! I am excluding the good ones.
Well then you[re deliberately excluding a lot of the lore about the NCR in order to make a flawed argument. Even if 1 and 2 are better at worldbuilding, you still gotta consider the world they built :P
Post by: Krevsin on March 18, 2016, 12:01:58 pm
The NCR are a horde or invading body. Of course they have a "government run military" because they ARE a government run military, they are their military (I really wish I knew what this term was again...). Yet they have no police force because there is no separation of military and paramilitary units... and the closest we see are not government run but volunteer.In Fallout 2 you can clearly see that the NCR has an established civilian police force (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Sheriff's_department_%28NCR%29)and civilian government, with the military being kept entirely separate.
As well while they both have currency, they don't have established exchange rates associated with them.
They are kind of unsupported play money in all seriousness. Likely a way to delegate rations but their value is by all means open to interpretation. Which is why even within the NCR they often use the bottlecap system.
It is sort of a difference in scale.
The NCR dollar is also the strongest currency in the region (gold-backed, given how it's literally golden coins) and is the game's default currency.
By the time of New Vegas, the NCR has begun to stagnate and the value of the NCR dollar has dropped considerably and they've switched from golden dollars to paper dollars, the value of which is lesser because for one, it's paper rather than gold coins and for second, it is not gold-backed anymore. Thus in the Mojave, Bottlecaps are used as they are a more stable currency.
The Mojave is a frontier for the NCR and thus most of the local judicial system has been left to the Rangers rather than the NCR police. Think the Westward Expansion in the united states (an apt analogy given New Vegas' distinct western tinge to the established post apocalyptic formula).
So, in Fallout New Vegas you don't see NCR police (save for the Military variety) because you're out on the frontier and a frontline for a big war. It's a region the NCR is clearly interested in and has somewhat begun to integrate into its territory, but that has as of yet not been entirely integrated and is also the front line of a big war.
Given how the war scared off most potential (and some existing) settlers, the rest of NCR assets (land, infrastructure, settlements) are under military rule due to circumstances. There are also local settlements that bargained with the NCR for protection, which is, again due to the war (and partially the distance from NCR's core lands) handled by the military and/or rangers.
Thus, most of the NCR people that you see are military personnel and most of the NCR assets in the region are protected by their army. and given how the war scared off most potential settlers, the rest of NCR settlements would be under military rule due to circumstances. Or they are local settlements that bargained with the NCR for protection (which again due to the war is handled by the military).
However I will gamble that Sharecropper farms wasn't built by the NCR and isn't what provides food for the entire New Vegas.It doesn't, its produce is used mostly to feed the NCR military (some of the surplus is given to NCR refugees and squatters in Freeside. There's a quest related to that with the Kings). Most of New Vegas' food comes from trade with local farms and settlements, notably Westside.
However, the Sharecropper farms were built and are operated by the NCR. They offered money and protection to farmers willing to move to the Mojave to work the farms.
Post by: Sartain on March 18, 2016, 01:45:46 pm
Have you played through Fallout 2 Neon? They clearly talk about how the NCR has trade routes across much of the wasteland, as well as an established government separate from their military. They have a currency with clear exchange rates in NV and different denominations. A currency that actually makes sense unlike bottlecaps. It's hinted that they have at least some light manufacturing in both games, as they produce much of their weapons and ammo, and of course their uniforms. The Mojave is at the very edge of their Republic, and even there they've managed to build outposts across much of the desert. I don't think the hoover dam base is representative of a society that hasn't got its shit together in some way, and back in California they're not limited to military bases but also have full cities supported by large-scale agriculture, and I remember reading somewhere, possibly in the Fallout Bible (which is considered canon AFAIK) About how the NCR has massive Brahmin herds that they range across the wastes.
In Fallout 2 there's actually a subplot about certain organised criminal elements trying to get leverage on some of the very influential Brahmin barons of the NCR. Or barring leverage, just getting rid of some pesky civilians with a lot of money and influence on the NCR. Actually, until New Vegas the NCR basically had no military presence at all, barring a handful of armed guards in (former) Shady Sands. The Mojave is very much the frontier and therefore pretty much a military occupation, which I guess is why the NCR comes off as militaristic.
Post by: Grim Portent on March 18, 2016, 02:16:35 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on March 18, 2016, 02:32:48 pm
Did they build the NCR correctional facility or just take it over? I don't remember.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on March 18, 2016, 02:45:26 pm
Oh, and they make their own armor.
Really dunno what you're on about, Neon.
Post by: Sergius on March 18, 2016, 03:20:01 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on March 18, 2016, 04:08:55 pm
Post by: MarcAFK on March 18, 2016, 04:25:47 pm
Post by: Neonivek on March 18, 2016, 05:35:20 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on March 18, 2016, 06:23:18 pm
Post by: Teneb on March 18, 2016, 06:46:24 pm
So, NV? It was a good game. It made sense. It was written by people who made the originals. (This might be wrong. I'm PRETTY sure.)It was.
Post by: etgfrog on March 18, 2016, 09:47:34 pm
Post by: Krevsin on March 19, 2016, 01:26:20 am
Dang it stop bringing up the good games that make sense :PAll of this information was from New Vegas, with Fallout 2 only being brought up to clarify that the NCR does in fact have a standing police force and had at one point had the dominant currency in the region, neither of which can be seen in FNV for previously stated reasons.
If I remember correctly, you could meet New California Rangers in random encounters in FO2. They were a pain to deal with if you got on their bad side.Have you played through Fallout 2 Neon? They clearly talk about how the NCR has trade routes across much of the wasteland, as well as an established government separate from their military. They have a currency with clear exchange rates in NV and different denominations. A currency that actually makes sense unlike bottlecaps. It's hinted that they have at least some light manufacturing in both games, as they produce much of their weapons and ammo, and of course their uniforms. The Mojave is at the very edge of their Republic, and even there they've managed to build outposts across much of the desert. I don't think the hoover dam base is representative of a society that hasn't got its shit together in some way, and back in California they're not limited to military bases but also have full cities supported by large-scale agriculture, and I remember reading somewhere, possibly in the Fallout Bible (which is considered canon AFAIK) About how the NCR has massive Brahmin herds that they range across the wastes.
In Fallout 2 there's actually a subplot about certain organised criminal elements trying to get leverage on some of the very influential Brahmin barons of the NCR. Or barring leverage, just getting rid of some pesky civilians with a lot of money and influence on the NCR. Actually, until New Vegas the NCR basically had no military presence at all, barring a handful of armed guards in (former) Shady Sands. The Mojave is very much the frontier and therefore pretty much a military occupation, which I guess is why the NCR comes off as militaristic.
Post by: Sartain on March 19, 2016, 02:49:11 am
Dang it stop bringing up the good games that make sense :PAll of this information was from New Vegas, with Fallout 2 only being brought up to clarify that the NCR does in fact have a standing police force and had at one point had the dominant currency in the region, neither of which can be seen in FNV for previously stated reasons.If I remember correctly, you could meet New California Rangers in random encounters in FO2. They were a pain to deal with if you got on their bad side.Have you played through Fallout 2 Neon? They clearly talk about how the NCR has trade routes across much of the wasteland, as well as an established government separate from their military. They have a currency with clear exchange rates in NV and different denominations. A currency that actually makes sense unlike bottlecaps. It's hinted that they have at least some light manufacturing in both games, as they produce much of their weapons and ammo, and of course their uniforms. The Mojave is at the very edge of their Republic, and even there they've managed to build outposts across much of the desert. I don't think the hoover dam base is representative of a society that hasn't got its shit together in some way, and back in California they're not limited to military bases but also have full cities supported by large-scale agriculture, and I remember reading somewhere, possibly in the Fallout Bible (which is considered canon AFAIK) About how the NCR has massive Brahmin herds that they range across the wastes.
In Fallout 2 there's actually a subplot about certain organised criminal elements trying to get leverage on some of the very influential Brahmin barons of the NCR. Or barring leverage, just getting rid of some pesky civilians with a lot of money and influence on the NCR. Actually, until New Vegas the NCR basically had no military presence at all, barring a handful of armed guards in (former) Shady Sands. The Mojave is very much the frontier and therefore pretty much a military occupation, which I guess is why the NCR comes off as militaristic.
True, they also have a base in NCR city. I'm pretty sure they're an independent outfit though and not under actual jurisdiction of the NCR but I might be misremembering. They're mostly an anti-slavery militia sort of operation.
Post by: Krevsin on March 19, 2016, 02:51:49 am
According to the wiki they deal with external threats, raider gangs, slavers, mutant beasties, all that sort of stuff.Dang it stop bringing up the good games that make sense :PAll of this information was from New Vegas, with Fallout 2 only being brought up to clarify that the NCR does in fact have a standing police force and had at one point had the dominant currency in the region, neither of which can be seen in FNV for previously stated reasons.If I remember correctly, you could meet New California Rangers in random encounters in FO2. They were a pain to deal with if you got on their bad side.Have you played through Fallout 2 Neon? They clearly talk about how the NCR has trade routes across much of the wasteland, as well as an established government separate from their military. They have a currency with clear exchange rates in NV and different denominations. A currency that actually makes sense unlike bottlecaps. It's hinted that they have at least some light manufacturing in both games, as they produce much of their weapons and ammo, and of course their uniforms. The Mojave is at the very edge of their Republic, and even there they've managed to build outposts across much of the desert. I don't think the hoover dam base is representative of a society that hasn't got its shit together in some way, and back in California they're not limited to military bases but also have full cities supported by large-scale agriculture, and I remember reading somewhere, possibly in the Fallout Bible (which is considered canon AFAIK) About how the NCR has massive Brahmin herds that they range across the wastes.
In Fallout 2 there's actually a subplot about certain organised criminal elements trying to get leverage on some of the very influential Brahmin barons of the NCR. Or barring leverage, just getting rid of some pesky civilians with a lot of money and influence on the NCR. Actually, until New Vegas the NCR basically had no military presence at all, barring a handful of armed guards in (former) Shady Sands. The Mojave is very much the frontier and therefore pretty much a military occupation, which I guess is why the NCR comes off as militaristic.
True, they also have a base in NCR city. I'm pretty sure they're an independent outfit though and not under actual jurisdiction of the NCR butt I might be misremembering. They're mostly an anti-slavery militia sort of operation.
Post by: umiman on March 19, 2016, 03:16:29 am
If I remember correctly, you could meet New California Rangers in random encounters in FO2. They were a pain to deal with if you got on their bad side.Pretty sure they had an office in the NCR you could run into.
And if you were a slaver they'd come for you.
Post by: Krevsin on March 19, 2016, 06:00:03 am
Bah, the philistines. They just can't get in the spirit of this whole "post apocalypse" thing.If I remember correctly, you could meet New California Rangers in random encounters in FO2. They were a pain to deal with if you got on their bad side.Pretty sure they had an office in the NCR you could run into.
And if you were a slaver they'd come for you.
edit: I have a feeling Fallout 4 would be much better if this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXIps2MpAO8&list=PLDdv1UhKaheY8S0eNKKfU9s77axFbDWgA&index=1)were its main plot.
Post by: MarcAFK on March 19, 2016, 07:47:38 am
Edit: tempted to double post but that's just too rebellious for me.
Automatatronimechamaniamotortronicia DLC drops tomorrow, let's get some hype going shall we?
I just saw the trailer and it looks like equal parts awesome and hilarious.
Post by: MarcAFK on March 22, 2016, 12:22:17 am
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/03/mod-lets-you-play-as-dogmeat-the-true-hero-of-fallout-4/ (http://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/03/mod-lets-you-play-as-dogmeat-the-true-hero-of-fallout-4/)
Just combine this with the mod that let's you have pacified enemies follow you around indefinitely and you can play as a goddamn dog pack. Really need to mute the protagonists voice though.
Edit: there's speculation about an Easter egg imbedded in a terminal somewhere that hasn't been discovered. A commenter on Kotaku mentioned finding a terminal which said it was connected to another terminal billions of miles away. So were talking Somewhere abetween the range of Saturn and voyager.
Space DLC maybe? Alien space ship? Prewar nuclear missile orbiting the sun? Someone find this terminal.
Post by: Putnam on March 22, 2016, 01:53:07 am
Post by: Glloyd on March 22, 2016, 02:11:53 am
wow the last space dlc was SO GOOD i'm glad they're going for that again HEHEH HEHEH HEHEHEHH
HEHEHEHEHEHEH
Post by: spümpkin on March 22, 2016, 03:28:41 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 22, 2016, 05:23:01 am
*I know what they don't like, but not why people don't like those things. Because I liked them, or ignored them I guess.
Post by: Krevsin on March 22, 2016, 10:32:15 am
But then again when I played it I had a lot of combat rebalance mods so the enemies weren't nearly as bullet spongey.
Post by: JimboM12 on March 22, 2016, 10:59:06 am
Post by: Harry Baldman on March 22, 2016, 12:24:36 pm
Yeah fuckit, this is totally worth a double post.
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/03/mod-lets-you-play-as-dogmeat-the-true-hero-of-fallout-4/ (http://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/03/mod-lets-you-play-as-dogmeat-the-true-hero-of-fallout-4/)
Just combine this with the mod that let's you have pacified enemies follow you around indefinitely and you can play as a goddamn dog pack. Really need to mute the protagonists voice though.
Damn, now all I need is a voice pack that replaces the protagonist's lines with dog noises and my first Fallout 4 experience will live up to the hype.
Post by: spümpkin on March 22, 2016, 01:23:56 pm
First robot DLC companion: Super Codsworth. Second: Fisto 2.0.I had Synth-Body Curie before the DLC, so I had to give her up so I can actually have moddable robots. I've just been using Ada, but I gave her an Assaultron Head Laser, Lightning gun, Shock Claw, and Robobrain torso.
She's very..... barrel - chested.
Post by: Flying Dice on March 22, 2016, 04:30:54 pm
I kind of liked Zeta. It had a sort of 1950s B-movie charm to it.Same here. Except I first played it on console and still enjoyed it.
But then again when I played it I had a lot of combat rebalance mods so the enemies weren't nearly as bullet spongey.
Though it would have been better if it had been more focused on stealth/infiltration, but hey, it's a Bethesda game, so that's right out.
Post by: Harry Baldman on March 22, 2016, 05:45:06 pm
I actually did Mothership Zeta first of all the DLC once, and found it to be much more enjoyable if not played when you're absolutely sick of the game itself.
Post by: Ultimuh on March 22, 2016, 05:51:49 pm
One of them had itself lodged inside a wired paper basket, making it essentially armored and quite hard for me to aim properly at as it was constantly rolling around.
Managed to get in a lucky shot though, but not before it had taken some health from me and given a good chunk of rads.
This was at the start of the game, as I have started over, with mods.
I have yet to explore what the Automatron DLC has to offer.
Post by: Teneb on March 22, 2016, 06:01:17 pm
Post by: spümpkin on March 22, 2016, 09:36:37 pm
Speaking of the DLC, when does the content kick in? As in, what triggers the storyline?I presume you mean the AutomoTron DLC, which you are given a quest and a radio signal (much like New Vegas's DLCs) and you have to go a quest, and it goes on from there.
But you do have to be level 15 to trigger the quest, not that I would recommend playing it with a level 15 character.
Post by: NullForceOmega on March 23, 2016, 02:38:45 am
Post by: Aseaheru on March 23, 2016, 02:53:49 am
you also need to watch where you put the workshop if you want to make sentry bots.
I do feel asthough they missed out on some aspects, being able to use a bot as a worker would be... interesting, as would being able to sell them.
Post by: Greenbane on March 23, 2016, 09:11:44 am
Do they render the Lone Wanderer perk ineffective?
Post by: Glloyd on March 23, 2016, 09:19:48 am
Do they render the Lone Wanderer perk ineffective?
They take up your one companion slot, so I'd assume so.
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 23, 2016, 09:33:00 am
Post by: Vicomt on March 23, 2016, 10:45:48 am
However, they can have a stealth field, which affects you, (not them ?), we've not tried it yet, but It's certainly worth trying.
Oh, and Officer Smashy McSmash would like a word with you if you don't find Automatron fun. We had so many laughs just beetling about with random(ish) designs last night.
[edit]
Just stay away from dead/dying robots if you're not decked out from head to toe in armour. Especially legendaries. their explode radius is huge.
you can actually use this to your advantage by sending your robot in to get killed, then when they explode (if they have the right bodies) they take out most of the enemies in one go.
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 23, 2016, 10:48:31 am
Post by: umiman on March 23, 2016, 12:34:12 pm
They take up a slot, are noisy, get in the way of your shots, and are generally just like other companions.Are you using the royal we?
However, they can have a stealth field, which affects you, (not them ?), we've not tried it yet, but It's certainly worth trying.
Oh, and Officer Smashy McSmash would like a word with you if you don't find Automatron fun. We had so many laughs just beetling about with random(ish) designs last night.
[edit]
Just stay away from dead/dying robots if you're not decked out from head to toe in armour. Especially legendaries. their explode radius is huge.
you can actually use this to your advantage by sending your robot in to get killed, then when they explode (if they have the right bodies) they take out most of the enemies in one go.
Post by: Grim Portent on March 23, 2016, 12:38:41 pm
Really the robots are good for carrying stuff and being a source of customisable damage. Also they look awesome.
I'm still tinkering with Codsworth to decide what kind of weapons I prefer him to have. Currently have him as a Sentry Bot with a gatling laser, missile launcher and a pair of mini nuke mortars. He can do a lot of damage at range, but he's slow, takes ages to kill things in close combat and gets swarmed easily.
I'm thinking of swapping him over to a thruster propelled blade wielding assaultron build.
Post by: Glloyd on March 23, 2016, 04:20:45 pm
They take up a slot, are noisy, get in the way of your shots, and are generally just like other companions.Are you using the royal we?
However, they can have a stealth field, which affects you, (not them ?), we've not tried it yet, but It's certainly worth trying.
Oh, and Officer Smashy McSmash would like a word with you if you don't find Automatron fun. We had so many laughs just beetling about with random(ish) designs last night.
[edit]
Just stay away from dead/dying robots if you're not decked out from head to toe in armour. Especially legendaries. their explode radius is huge.
you can actually use this to your advantage by sending your robot in to get killed, then when they explode (if they have the right bodies) they take out most of the enemies in one go.
Can't forget about your political body I guess.
Post by: Vicomt on March 23, 2016, 06:37:38 pm
They take up a slot, are noisy, get in the way of your shots, and are generally just like other companions.Are you using the royal we?
However, they can have a stealth field, which affects you, (not them ?), we've not tried it yet, but It's certainly worth trying.
Oh, and Officer Smashy McSmash would like a word with you if you don't find Automatron fun. We had so many laughs just beetling about with random(ish) designs last night.
[edit]
Just stay away from dead/dying robots if you're not decked out from head to toe in armour. Especially legendaries. their explode radius is huge.
you can actually use this to your advantage by sending your robot in to get killed, then when they explode (if they have the right bodies) they take out most of the enemies in one go.
LOL, sorry, I tend to play games with my brother quite a bit, either he plays and I watch, or I play and he watches, but we both decide what we're doing.
Anyway, having just completed the Mechanist quest, I can say with certainty, it's well worth the price. some lovely bits of lore, and at times, total carnage. 10\10 will have fun with all the robot parts now :D
Post by: Ultimuh on March 23, 2016, 06:58:11 pm
I'm still tinkering with Codsworth to decide what kind of weapons I prefer him to have. Currently have him as a Sentry Bot with a gatling laser, missile launcher and a pair of mini nuke mortars. He can do a lot of damage at range, but he's slow, takes ages to kill things in close combat and gets swarmed easily.
Wait.. Can Codsworth be modified with this? :o
Post by: Grim Portent on March 23, 2016, 07:00:56 pm
Being able to customize and create robots is a really nice thing, though it does require a specific set of talents to really exploit. Granted most of the perks needed are ones I pick anyway, but it'll really be a drag to people who have different playstyles to me.
I think that the different robot part types could be a bit more balanced between each other. I get that there's something of a mechanical hierarchy going on, but as it is there's basically no reason to ever use protectron parts or any handy part other than the thruster as far as I can tell.
Wait.. Can Codsworth be modified with this? :o
Yep. All his parts can be swapped out for other ones. His voice stays the same and he doesn't get any new dialogue when changed sadly. Curie however cannot be customised, probably to avoid any bugs involving her companion quest.
It's rather fun to have Codsworth's english butler voice coming out of a 7 foot tall spiky war machine with a skull face. :D
Post by: Ultimuh on March 23, 2016, 07:04:42 pm
I think that the different robot part types could be a bit more balanced between each other. I get that there's something of a mechanical hierarchy going on, but as it is there's basically no reason to ever use protectron parts or any handy part other than the thruster as far as I can tell.
There is already a mod on the Nexus which makes the armor on all part types equal to each other.
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11209/?
Post by: Teneb on March 23, 2016, 07:31:25 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on March 23, 2016, 07:43:10 pm
I think that the different robot part types could be a bit more balanced between each other. I get that there's something of a mechanical hierarchy going on, but as it is there's basically no reason to ever use protectron parts or any handy part other than the thruster as far as I can tell.
There is already a mod on the Nexus which makes the armor on all part types equal to each other.
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11209/?
It's not the armour that bugs me, since that's barely relevant anyway, it's the speed/maneuverability/accuracy differences. Protectron is bad even as a generalist. It's only a little faster than robobrain treads and sentry bot legs, but has worse stats in everything but accuracy compared to assaultrons, so on and so forth. It's just got no real niche among the robot types. Not that it's alone on that account, but I don't mind each robot type having some bad options, but protectron parts all seem bad.
Post by: NullForceOmega on March 25, 2016, 01:39:35 am
Post by: Flying Dice on March 25, 2016, 01:47:31 am
Post by: Fniff on March 25, 2016, 02:16:43 am
Post by: Ultimuh on March 25, 2016, 06:11:21 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: AlleeCat on March 26, 2016, 11:29:22 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 26, 2016, 11:29:46 pm
Post by: AlleeCat on March 26, 2016, 11:37:28 pm
I found out it happens in the Institute, as well. Nothing like talking to your son about blowing up pretty much everything he's ever cared about while a disembodied voice tells you to "punish the child."
Post by: NullForceOmega on March 28, 2016, 10:24:10 am
Post by: Grim Portent on March 28, 2016, 10:56:25 am
So, I haven't seen anyone mention it, but you can in fact assign player-built robots to caravan duty, robobrains seem especially well-suited to this job, as they are extremely fast, have high hitpoints, and good accuracy and melee capability as well, their decent armor rating is a nice bonus. I turned starlight drive-in into my primary trade hub, and I have to say that using robots this way works extremely well.
In theory you can replace all you settlers with robots of various kinds.
I favour Protectrons for menial tasks, frankenstein Assaultron/Handy hybrids for defence purposes in the settlements that I put sentry positions in and sentry bots for caravans, because who's gonna mess with a mini nuke toting tank that wants to deliver scrap metal?
I could just use an optimal robot design and base all my bots off it, but I like the mix of different designs.
Post by: Vendayn on March 29, 2016, 01:46:10 am
Sorta Skyrim-like. But it is realistic, since after 200 years things will have regrown again anyway. And grass grows everywhere it can to begin with. And makes it look awesome all the ruins with all the greenery around.
Also looks even better than modded Skyrim imo :P And this is still REALLY early in the modding scene, and mods are already making it better than Skyrim. I got all kinds of awesome gameplay mods and stuff. Compared to early Skyrim modding, Fallout 4 is WAY ahead at the same age Skyrim mods were.
Post by: Ultimuh on March 29, 2016, 02:01:13 am
I installed Fallout1 on my win7 64bit. I can not change views, just stuck in a zoomed out can not rotate 3rd person view. Is there any fix, patch, etc for this?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Vendayn on March 29, 2016, 02:07:59 am
I installed Fallout1 on my win7 64bit. I can not change views, just stuck in a zoomed out can not rotate 3rd person view. Is there any fix, patch, etc for this?
___
SocPlugin: Best soft for SMM
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: umiman on March 29, 2016, 02:10:50 am
I installed Fallout1 on my win7 64bit. I can not change views, just stuck in a zoomed out can not rotate 3rd person view. Is there any fix, patch, etc for this?Here you go: http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/48095/?
___
SocPlugin: Best soft for SMM
Post by: Yolan on March 29, 2016, 11:13:25 am
Post by: umiman on March 29, 2016, 12:17:40 pm
Soooooo, any good hard-core/survival mods for F04 yet? Not that I'm feeling that enticed by the price yet but...The mod kit is not out yet so no. It'll be out in April or so. So give it a few weeks after that for the first big mods to come out and a few months / years after that for them to be feature complete.
Post by: nenjin on March 29, 2016, 12:24:28 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63mvtbORMe4
Sorta Skyrim-like. But it is realistic, since after 200 years things will have regrown again anyway. And grass grows everywhere it can to begin with. And makes it look awesome all the ruins with all the greenery around.
Also looks even better than modded Skyrim imo :P And this is still REALLY early in the modding scene, and mods are already making it better than Skyrim. I got all kinds of awesome gameplay mods and stuff. Compared to early Skyrim modding, Fallout 4 is WAY ahead at the same age Skyrim mods were.
Good god what a difference that makes.
Post by: Krevsin on March 29, 2016, 12:38:55 pm
Post by: BigD145 on March 29, 2016, 12:48:05 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63mvtbORMe4
Sorta Skyrim-like. But it is realistic, since after 200 years things will have regrown again anyway. And grass grows everywhere it can to begin with. And makes it look awesome all the ruins with all the greenery around.
Also looks even better than modded Skyrim imo :P And this is still REALLY early in the modding scene, and mods are already making it better than Skyrim. I got all kinds of awesome gameplay mods and stuff. Compared to early Skyrim modding, Fallout 4 is WAY ahead at the same age Skyrim mods were.
Good god what a difference that makes.
Normal grass after 200 years? Where's the man-eating dandelions with lion faces?!
Post by: umiman on March 29, 2016, 12:55:04 pm
They're off messing with the timeline and trying to manipulate little androgynous children.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63mvtbORMe4
Sorta Skyrim-like. But it is realistic, since after 200 years things will have regrown again anyway. And grass grows everywhere it can to begin with. And makes it look awesome all the ruins with all the greenery around.
Also looks even better than modded Skyrim imo :P And this is still REALLY early in the modding scene, and mods are already making it better than Skyrim. I got all kinds of awesome gameplay mods and stuff. Compared to early Skyrim modding, Fallout 4 is WAY ahead at the same age Skyrim mods were.
Good god what a difference that makes.
Normal grass after 200 years? Where's the man-eating dandelions with lion faces?!
Post by: Teneb on March 29, 2016, 02:58:18 pm
EDIT: Their blog post about it. (https://bethesda.net/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=032916-FO4-survival&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=032916-FO4-Survival#en/events/game/fallout-4s-all-new-survival-mode/2016/03/29/96)
Post by: Bluexdog on March 29, 2016, 07:56:19 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on March 29, 2016, 08:01:04 pm
Post by: Knave on March 29, 2016, 08:03:25 pm
It "starts" automatically when Ada finds you, which happens after a certain level IIRC.
I think you'll get a radio signal when you hit level 15. Or a quest marker to find a radio signal.
Post by: Sartain on March 30, 2016, 11:49:09 am
It "starts" automatically when Ada finds you, which happens after a certain level IIRC.
I think you'll get a radio signal when you hit level 15. Or a quest marker to find a radio signal.
Radio signal at level 15, listening to it gives a quest marker. So basically, like every radio-initiated quest and DLC ever.
Post by: BigD145 on March 30, 2016, 12:26:48 pm
Post by: Ultimuh on March 30, 2016, 01:10:19 pm
I like the location based signals but the level based dlc ones are so lazy. Suddenly global radio signal for one fairly minor optional npc.
They have coincidentally been attacked at that moment you hit level 15.
But in a way, not much of an asspull as some DLCs from other titles.
edit: Like that psychic courier who just happen to know where to find you in Skyrim.
Distress radio signals are a bit more plausible than that.
Post by: BigD145 on March 30, 2016, 01:49:06 pm
I like the location based signals but the level based dlc ones are so lazy. Suddenly global radio signal for one fairly minor optional npc.
They have coincidentally been attacked at that moment you hit level 15.
But in a way, not much of an asspull as some DLCs from other titles.
edit: Like that psychic courier who just happen to know where to find you in Skyrim.
Distress radio signals are a bit more plausible than that.
But in the this case it's a "almost no radio stations work across the whole map, and some get a boost when you raise towers manually, but if you don't raise any of them you still get a global distress call when you hit this level." Would I get the same radio signal if I were on Mothership Zeta and suddenly hit level 15?
Post by: Ultimuh on March 30, 2016, 01:54:33 pm
I like the location based signals but the level based dlc ones are so lazy. Suddenly global radio signal for one fairly minor optional npc.
They have coincidentally been attacked at that moment you hit level 15.
But in a way, not much of an asspull as some DLCs from other titles.
edit: Like that psychic courier who just happen to know where to find you in Skyrim.
Distress radio signals are a bit more plausible than that.
But in the this case it's a "almost no radio stations work across the whole map, and some get a boost when you raise towers manually, but if you don't raise any of them you still get a global distress call when you hit this level." Would I get the same radio signal if I were on Mothership Zeta and suddenly hit level 15?
Well, Ada does state that her "creator" was some sort of genius.
Perhaps he managed to boost the signal somehow?
Post by: Rolan7 on March 30, 2016, 03:22:06 pm
edit: Like that psychic courier who just happen to know where to find you in Skyrim.That courier was the best though. "I have a package for you... Your eyes only (;" *naked*
Distress radio signals are a bit more plausible than that.
Post by: Ultimuh on March 30, 2016, 03:31:03 pm
I suspect you play Skyrim with certain.. mods..edit: Like that psychic courier who just happen to know where to find you in Skyrim.That courier was the best though. "I have a package for you... Your eyes only (;" *naked*
Distress radio signals are a bit more plausible than that.
Post by: Rolan7 on March 30, 2016, 03:38:27 pm
Post by: Ultimuh on March 30, 2016, 03:41:03 pm
Okay you got me. But the default winking animations were just awful!No need to be ashamed.. I sometimes play with the same.. mods..
Post by: Sergius on March 30, 2016, 08:54:59 pm
I suspect you play Skyrim with certain.. mods..edit: Like that psychic courier who just happen to know where to find you in Skyrim.That courier was the best though. "I have a package for you... Your eyes only (;" *naked*
Distress radio signals are a bit more plausible than that.
Pretty sure that's just a vanilla bug.
Post by: Teneb on March 30, 2016, 08:56:08 pm
That was supposed to be fixed in the last patch the game got, but yeah.Pretty sure that's just a vanilla bug.I suspect you play Skyrim with certain.. mods..edit: Like that psychic courier who just happen to know where to find you in Skyrim.That courier was the best though. "I have a package for you... Your eyes only (;" *naked*
Distress radio signals are a bit more plausible than that.
Post by: IronTomato on March 30, 2016, 09:11:57 pm
He wasn't naked. He wore a hat.edit: Like that psychic courier who just happen to know where to find you in Skyrim.That courier was the best though. "I have a package for you... Your eyes only (;" *naked*
Distress radio signals are a bit more plausible than that.
Post by: Bluexdog on March 30, 2016, 09:18:01 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on March 30, 2016, 10:19:41 pm
He wasn't naked. He wore a hat.I love how sometimes, strategic clothing can make someone look *more* naked.
Post by: Sergius on March 30, 2016, 11:04:00 pm
Post by: BFEL on April 01, 2016, 07:57:33 am
Is the DLC somehow incompatible with the survival beta or something?
Post by: Vicomt on April 01, 2016, 08:04:48 am
Post by: BFEL on April 01, 2016, 08:24:41 am
EDIT: After a moment of thought I decided to re-install the beta and sure enough it works now. So yeah, apparently you have to install the beta AFTER you install the DLC.
Post by: Neonivek on April 01, 2016, 09:05:52 am
apparently you have to install the beta AFTER you install the DLC.
Insert modern gaming joke here
Post by: Grim Portent on April 01, 2016, 02:46:57 pm
So far I've managed to purge all the non-immortal humans from the Castle, with the exception of a provisioner that I haven't managed to catch in a settlement yet and a single minuteman I've spared on a whim. The fields are now tended by beeping protectrons and the walls are patrolled by assaultrons. Once I've scraped up the resources I plan to assign a bunch of Handy's to scavenge stations and maybe some artillery.
Killing all the damn human settlers is going to take ages though. I'm thinking I may just go to each settlement to trash their recruitment beacon and wait for failed quests and raids to kill them all.
Post by: Ultimuh on April 01, 2016, 03:17:57 pm
Decided to try and kill all of my human settlers to replace them with robots of various kinds in order to stop the parasites feeding on my mutfruits, corn and tatos.
So far I've managed to purge all the non-immortal humans from the Castle, with the exception of a provisioner that I haven't managed to catch in a settlement yet and a single minuteman I've spared on a whim. The fields are now tended by beeping protectrons and the walls are patrolled by assaultrons. Once I've scraped up the resources I plan to assign a bunch of Handy's to scavenge stations and maybe some artillery.
Killing all the damn human settlers is going to take ages though. I'm thinking I may just go to each settlement to trash their recruitment beacon and wait for failed quests and raids to kill them all.
That's a very apt username.
Post by: BFEL on April 01, 2016, 05:35:02 pm
Decided to try and kill all of my human settlers to replace them with robots of various kinds in order to stop the parasites feeding on my mutfruits, corn and tatos.Well they don't ACTUALLY eat the stuff.
But yeah, that aside HOLY HELL. Considering the resource investment in making even ONE automatron, I shudder at what it takes to make whole settlements of the bastards.
Also, survival mode is SO GODDAMN HARD. I love it. Though the no saving thing is annoying as shit.
Started a new game full survival, just cleared the outside of Corvega Plant to pick up the bobblehead. I'm waiting to grab some more fusion cores so I can raid the inside in full power armor, because that's the only way I'll survive it.
My long term goals are to get Garvey's perk and then get the ballistic weave stuff from the Railroad so I have a reasonable chance to survive things.
Anyone know when its gonna be out of beta? Would be epic to play it with mods.
Post by: Grim Portent on April 01, 2016, 05:44:30 pm
Decided to try and kill all of my human settlers to replace them with robots of various kinds in order to stop the parasites feeding on my mutfruits, corn and tatos.Well they don't ACTUALLY eat the stuff.
But yeah, that aside HOLY HELL. Considering the resource investment in making even ONE automatron, I shudder at what it takes to make whole settlements of the bastards.
When you have food overproduction any excess food gets put into the workbench periodically. Because of how high my population is overall and with caravans linking all my settlements my food is basically all being eaten or scattered to the winds so I have no easily found overflow. Replacing everyone with robots should fix that problem.
The resources to make the robots aren't really a problem for me, I have hundreds of most of them. It's just aluminium and adhesive that delays me, and I send eyebots out to find caches of those for me.
Post by: Rolan7 on April 01, 2016, 05:50:00 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on April 01, 2016, 08:28:00 pm
And the adhesive problem is even easier to solve once you don't have meatbags eating up the vegetable starch ingredients, I assume.
Bingo.
So far I have six constructed automatrons, not counting the Graygarden bots, Ada or Codsworth.
Drones 1,2 and 3 are black factory model Protectrons that tend crops in the Castle. All my farmers and scavengers are going to be based on this design and numbered sequentially.
Doc is a white factory model Handy I made to run a shop. I had hoped it would be able to buy and sell, but it seems they weren't given the necessary dialogue options, so it's going to be repurposed into something else once I can be bothered.
Valkyrie-1 is a dark green factory model Assaultron with rapid fire laser and shishkebab that patrols the Castle walls. I stored the turrets and generator rig I used to use for defence in favour of watching all out battles between tooled up bots and attackers. Future soldier bots will be of various designs.
Scourge-1 is my personal guard and companion. He's gone through a number of different designs and names as I tried out different configurations of weapons and armour. Currently he's mostly Sentrybot with Robobrain treads and head, an explosive minigun, a missile launcher, a fat man shoulder mount and a normal explosive shoulder mount. I am going to redesign him into a more conventional guard and assign him to the Castle and go finish getting companion perks.
I'm thinking of making some simple automatrons with the sentry bot frenzy gas launcher to increase the mayhem in large fights, but first I'm going to expand on my drone task force and finish my overhaul of the Castle's resources. Other than lacking a steady source of aluminium, which I need a decent amount of, I have hundreds, sometimes thousands, of the resources needed to craft more robots. I have 75 levels worth of junk collected and stored away. I should be able to fully outfit at least 2 settlements worth of robots before resources become a problem.
So far I find I like my robot companions to have a pair of melee arms and the sentry bot shoulder nukes. Gun bots tend to get rushed by enemies and resort to pathetically clubbing away at them. Robobrain heads are insanely accurate though, so I might try making a sniper bot sometime.
Post by: Krevsin on April 02, 2016, 01:43:31 am
I would quite like for there to be a way to fast travel between settlements (like how in Fallout 3 the mod that disabled fast travel gave you fast travel merchants) or failing that a horse-alike.Decided to try and kill all of my human settlers to replace them with robots of various kinds in order to stop the parasites feeding on my mutfruits, corn and tatos.Well they don't ACTUALLY eat the stuff.
But yeah, that aside HOLY HELL. Considering the resource investment in making even ONE automatron, I shudder at what it takes to make whole settlements of the bastards.
Also, survival mode is SO GODDAMN HARD. I love it. Though the no saving thing is annoying as shit.
Started a new game full survival, just cleared the outside of Corvega Plant to pick up the bobblehead. I'm waiting to grab some more fusion cores so I can raid the inside in full power armor, because that's the only way I'll survive it.
My long term goals are to get Garvey's perk and then get the ballistic weave stuff from the Railroad so I have a reasonable chance to survive things.
Anyone know when its gonna be out of beta? Would be epic to play it with mods.
Maybe a really fast power armor suit that is unsuitable for combat but can move at a really fast rate. Think power armor from Starship Troopers the book.
Post by: MarcAFK on April 02, 2016, 07:29:45 am
Post by: BFEL on April 02, 2016, 08:31:29 am
But yeah, the saving thing pretty much makes it so I take no risks whatsoever. As in, I'm pretty much permanently holed up in Red Rocket instead of going out to Diamond City for much xp.
I mean, there's a certain appeal to the "your fuckups have actual consequences" thing, but combined with the fuckhuge damage enemies do it just makes me huddle in a corner instead of going out and enjoying the massive open world RPG.
Post by: Krevsin on April 02, 2016, 01:33:30 pm
Personally I kinda like the whole no fast traveling thing. Kinda like how Dragons Dogma was, even the most minor quest felt like a full on expedition.The thing is, you could see the problem with no fast travel in Dragon's Dogma in the endgame when you had to just trek halfway across the gameworld for extended periods of time.
But yeah, the saving thing pretty much makes it so I take no risks whatsoever. As in, I'm pretty much permanently holed up in Red Rocket instead of going out to Diamond City for much xp.
I mean, there's a certain appeal to the "your fuckups have actual consequences" thing, but combined with the fuckhuge damage enemies do it just makes me huddle in a corner instead of going out and enjoying the massive open world RPG.
The problem with Fallout 4 is that it's not been designed with no fast travel in mind. It's big and getting to places takes yonks. At first it's fine and dandy but later on it will become grating.
It's why mods that removed fast travel from Fallout 3 gave you fast travel merchants at settlements, from which most quests were easily reachable after a reasonably long hike. Or better yet, Witcher 3's fast travel which gave you a point-to-point fast travel in settlements and some points on the map along with a horsey to get you places quickly-like.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on April 02, 2016, 01:47:23 pm
But maps/ game engine were not designed with this in mind, so it would be ugly and buggy.
Post by: Bluexdog on April 02, 2016, 01:51:58 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on April 02, 2016, 02:31:30 pm
It could be done well it the time and effort were put into it, after all, New Vegas got some very impressive vehicles.
Post by: Grim Portent on April 02, 2016, 02:46:45 pm
Post by: Ultimuh on April 02, 2016, 02:47:55 pm
Personally I'd like a horse sized Giddyup Buttercup. Or a cyberhorse. Or just a plain old mutated horse.Brahmins would be nice too.
You now what? Let me ride Deathclaws into battle. It will be glorious.
Post by: BFEL on April 03, 2016, 11:18:43 am
Specifically, had dogmeat eat all my cores, so I can SLOOOOOWLY walk out to the nearby bed, then have him regurgitate them for maximum murdering.
Post by: Rolan7 on April 03, 2016, 11:46:56 am
Post by: Teneb on April 03, 2016, 12:49:02 pm
Currently working on a BRILLIANT PLANTM to get to the Corvega Factory, in power armor, without burning all my cores on the trek there.I don't know if core consumption is increased in survival, but as long as you don't sprint, crouch (usure), jump (also unsure), or use your light you can basically cross the map with a single core.
Specifically, had dogmeat eat all my cores, so I can SLOOOOOWLY walk out to the nearby bed, then have him regurgitate them for maximum murdering.
Post by: Burnt Pies on April 03, 2016, 01:04:01 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 03, 2016, 01:10:52 pm
Post by: BigD145 on April 03, 2016, 01:33:35 pm
Cores are burned by anything that uses action points; VATS, Sprinting, Jetpacking and weapon bashing being the ones I recall off the top of my head
Jumping and taking damage, too.Using it for what it's intended.
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 03, 2016, 01:35:19 pm
(:P)
Post by: BFEL on April 03, 2016, 01:40:24 pm
You can also just fast travel, doesn't use cores. Unless you're doing the hardcore mode or something.Survival, yeah.
Anyway, did my plan, but as noted, probably didn't need to. Barely did anything to that core, even using it on the return trip. Had 5 in total too.
Post by: Bluexdog on April 03, 2016, 04:25:05 pm
Tip: When you talk with him wear the silver shroud armor for funny dialogue.
Second tip: Bring power armor and lots of guns and ammo
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 03, 2016, 05:22:55 pm
Post by: BFEL on April 03, 2016, 08:45:09 pm
Tip: When you talk with him wear the silver shroud armor for funny dialogue.OMG yes. I didn't even think of that.
Post by: Sergius on April 04, 2016, 10:14:53 am
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11357
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 04, 2016, 10:24:22 am
Finally, someone fixed this...Thank God. Fallout 4 was unplayable before this, really.
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11357
Post by: Neonivek on April 04, 2016, 10:25:41 am
Post by: BFEL on April 04, 2016, 09:24:27 pm
Survival is officially unplayable because of that fucking saving bullshit.
Seriously, I LOVE everything else but losing an hour of progress to random chance is just wrong.
Post by: Teneb on April 04, 2016, 09:31:44 pm
Ugh, ok.I'm guessing that mods to change that will be out pretty soon after the CK is out. If there aren't any already.
Survival is officially unplayable because of that fucking saving bullshit.
Seriously, I LOVE everything else but losing an hour of progress to random chance is just wrong.
Post by: Flying Dice on April 04, 2016, 10:02:09 pm
Post by: BFEL on April 04, 2016, 10:02:53 pm
I know there aren't already because it's noted to be incompatible with mods.Ugh, ok.I'm guessing that mods to change that will be out pretty soon after the CK is out. If there aren't any already.
Survival is officially unplayable because of that fucking saving bullshit.
Seriously, I LOVE everything else but losing an hour of progress to random chance is just wrong.
Post by: Ultimuh on April 05, 2016, 02:52:20 am
People will find ways around that.I know there aren't already because it's noted to be incompatible with mods.Ugh, ok.I'm guessing that mods to change that will be out pretty soon after the CK is out. If there aren't any already.
Survival is officially unplayable because of that fucking saving bullshit.
Seriously, I LOVE everything else but losing an hour of progress to random chance is just wrong.
Post by: BFEL on April 05, 2016, 07:39:03 am
True, but think I'll wait till its not in beta to give it another shot.People will find ways around that.I know there aren't already because it's noted to be incompatible with mods.Ugh, ok.I'm guessing that mods to change that will be out pretty soon after the CK is out. If there aren't any already.
Survival is officially unplayable because of that fucking saving bullshit.
Seriously, I LOVE everything else but losing an hour of progress to random chance is just wrong.
Post by: Ultimuh on April 05, 2016, 09:06:59 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtcUF5gHQJw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtcUF5gHQJw)
Spoiler: Watch the vid before looking here. (click to show/hide)
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 05, 2016, 09:43:49 am
Post by: Teneb on April 05, 2016, 09:50:16 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 05, 2016, 09:52:30 am
Post by: Ultimuh on April 05, 2016, 10:08:46 am
edit: Which is why I like mods which puts an end to that.
Post by: BigD145 on April 05, 2016, 10:20:59 am
Post by: nenjin on April 05, 2016, 10:33:59 am
Preston really needs to be toned down, as we all know. When walking with him from Concord to Sanctuary (y'know, right in the start of the game) he literally stops midway to... give me a quest.
Ha! You haven't even like, agreed to help the Minutemen by then have you?
Post by: JimboM12 on April 05, 2016, 10:41:24 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omT0PaXYpIE
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/7610/?
Post by: Teneb on April 05, 2016, 10:42:12 am
Nope.Preston really needs to be toned down, as we all know. When walking with him from Concord to Sanctuary (y'know, right in the start of the game) he literally stops midway to... give me a quest.
Ha! You haven't even like, agreed to help the Minutemen by then have you?
Post by: Ultimuh on April 05, 2016, 10:42:35 am
It was inevitable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omT0PaXYpIE
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/7610/?
Considering that Skyrim had a similar mod, yes. It was inevitable.
Post by: JimboM12 on April 05, 2016, 10:45:51 am
It was inevitable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omT0PaXYpIE
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/7610/?
Considering that Skyrim had a similar mod, yes. It was inevitable.
Now all we need is a hulk-hoganized strong.
Post by: Ultimuh on April 05, 2016, 10:59:58 am
It was inevitable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omT0PaXYpIE
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/7610/?
Considering that Skyrim had a similar mod, yes. It was inevitable.
Now all we need is a hulk-hoganized strong.
So what should be John Cena'd?
Post by: JimboM12 on April 05, 2016, 11:06:11 am
So what should be John Cena'd?
Probably mole rats because they can pop out from any whe- AND HIS NAME IS JOHN CENAAAA!
This could also be true of mirelurks.
Post by: BFEL on April 05, 2016, 11:10:02 am
The cats.It was inevitable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omT0PaXYpIE
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/7610/?
Considering that Skyrim had a similar mod, yes. It was inevitable.
Now all we need is a hulk-hoganized strong.
So what should be John Cena'd?
CUZ HE'S A PUSSY.
Post by: BigD145 on April 05, 2016, 11:48:01 am
It was inevitable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omT0PaXYpIE
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/7610/?
Way back in January. Yes. Of course.
Post by: Grim Portent on April 05, 2016, 03:10:55 pm
I've managed to hunt down and kill most of the damn morons, but the remaining few are never at the settlements when I arrive at them so I'm having to try and hunt them down on the roads between their home settlements and Sanctuary. >:(
The Castle is a bustling fortress of mechanical warriors, but there's still too many meatbag settlers out there for my tastes.
Post by: BFEL on April 05, 2016, 07:25:06 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 05, 2016, 08:10:13 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 05, 2016, 08:14:39 pm
Post by: BFEL on April 06, 2016, 07:41:08 am
Nexus Mod Manager: It Just Works
Nice to finally have the mods take, but REALLY annoying that I had to resort to this.
Post by: Sergius on April 06, 2016, 09:28:04 am
RRRAAAGH! I CAN'T FIND THE LAST 5 PROVISIONERS!
I've managed to hunt down and kill most of the damn morons, but the remaining few are never at the settlements when I arrive at them so I'm having to try and hunt them down on the roads between their home settlements and Sanctuary. >:(
The Castle is a bustling fortress of mechanical warriors, but there's still too many meatbag settlers out there for my tastes.
This is a somewhat decent trick, doesn't work 100% but works about 95% of the time. For the remaining, I use the "provisioner markers" mod. Which, also, for some reason, not always works on all provisioners.
Take an unemployed settler (an ex-provisioner is preferable because they are renamed permanently, which is annoying if you plan to reuse him later), move it to the Source of a trade route (sometimes you have to try both settlements to find out which one was the source) and give him the same trade route (this will fire the old person, who will eventually return home) and immediately fire him, assign him to a scavenger station or whatever.
Post by: nenjin on April 06, 2016, 09:47:36 am
Well after the inexplicable failures I had with manual modding (the plugins.txt document seems to have kept resetting to have none of the mods in it anytime I booted the game, don't know why) I finally caved and downloaded the Nexus Mod Manager.
Nexus Mod Manager: It Just Works
Nice to finally have the mods take, but REALLY annoying that I had to resort to this.
Why would you want to manually install mods? It just becomes a hassle with the potential for screwing things up by extracting to the wrong directory or overwriting the wrong file. I can get wanting total control over and it resenting having to use some site's big dumb software tool....but NMM is really slick at this point, and saved me hours and hours and hours of pain and heartache trying to mod Skyrim.
Post by: JimboM12 on April 06, 2016, 10:12:35 am
Well after the inexplicable failures I had with manual modding (the plugins.txt document seems to have kept resetting to have none of the mods in it anytime I booted the game, don't know why) I finally caved and downloaded the Nexus Mod Manager.
Nexus Mod Manager: It Just Works
Nice to finally have the mods take, but REALLY annoying that I had to resort to this.
Why would you want to manually install mods? It just becomes a hassle with the potential for screwing things up by extracting to the wrong directory or overwriting the wrong file. I can get wanting total control over and it resenting having to use some site's big dumb software tool....but NMM is really slick at this point, and saved me hours and hours and hours of pain and heartache trying to mod Skyrim.
I second this notion. NMM isn't that bad, it's just not as feature set as say Mod Organizer or Wyre's stuff but it works for simple drag and drop installs. Most mods on the nexus are compatible with drag and drops and the good ones have nice fomod installers. Combo with LOOT in the game's main directory and add Fallout 4 tool whenever that gets released and you're set, excepting some special mods that require tweaking and stuff, like animations or something.
Post by: BFEL on April 06, 2016, 12:09:39 pm
Post by: umiman on April 06, 2016, 12:30:30 pm
INDEPENDENT
Spoiler: INDEPENDENT (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: INDEPENDENT (click to show/hide)
:D
Post by: Flying Dice on April 06, 2016, 12:42:42 pm
Well after the inexplicable failures I had with manual modding (the plugins.txt document seems to have kept resetting to have none of the mods in it anytime I booted the game, don't know why) I finally caved and downloaded the Nexus Mod Manager.
Nexus Mod Manager: It Just Works
Nice to finally have the mods take, but REALLY annoying that I had to resort to this.
Why would you want to manually install mods? It just becomes a hassle with the potential for screwing things up by extracting to the wrong directory or overwriting the wrong file. I can get wanting total control over and it resenting having to use some site's big dumb software tool....but NMM is really slick at this point, and saved me hours and hours and hours of pain and heartache trying to mod Skyrim.
Can't speak for anyone else, but I did it before MO2 alpha or NMM had reliable support for FO4.
Post by: Grim Portent on April 06, 2016, 04:31:18 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on April 06, 2016, 06:23:04 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on April 06, 2016, 06:44:13 pm
(I haven't actually used the broadsider)
Post by: umiman on April 06, 2016, 06:45:43 pm
Damage Per Second may be low, but what about Deaths Per Shot?When I used it it seemed pretty crappy. Didn't feel like a cannon at all, more like a... bowling ball launcher.
(I haven't actually used the broadsider)
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 06, 2016, 07:03:40 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on April 06, 2016, 10:21:31 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 06, 2016, 10:29:06 pm
Then it might be a lack of Heavy Weapons specialty, wrong enemies, [desperately searches for third reason that isn't admitting it sucks]
Post by: umiman on April 06, 2016, 10:43:57 pm
the mooks I fought didn't die like chumps, especially since I was trying to use the silver smg instead of my laser shit ;-;Just admit it yo. It's pretty terrible.
Then it might be a lack of Heavy Weapons specialty, wrong enemies, [desperately searches for third reason that isn't admitting it sucks]
Post by: Trapezohedron on April 06, 2016, 11:05:30 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 06, 2016, 11:06:05 pm
Post by: BFEL on April 06, 2016, 11:10:36 pm
I mean, its fun to use if you're in power armor and outclass things so hard it doesn't matter, but only then.
Its horribly inaccurate, slow as hell, has EXTREMELY specialized ammo, and it doesn't even do any significant amount of damage.
Its just overwhelmingly shitty.
Post by: Sergius on April 07, 2016, 09:32:43 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 07, 2016, 09:41:54 am
Post by: Teneb on April 07, 2016, 09:51:23 am
It's a pretty damn cool (if outshined at later levels) trophy gained for helping a bunch of peaceful robots get to sea instead of SCRAPPING THEM YOU MONSTERThen just put it in a display position in one of your settlements.
Or dress up one of your companion as a pirate and give them the gun.
Post by: JimboM12 on April 07, 2016, 01:17:09 pm
It's a pretty damn cool (if outshined at later levels) trophy gained for helping a bunch of peaceful robots get to sea instead of SCRAPPING THEM YOU MONSTERThen just put it in a display position in one of your settlements.
Or dress up one of your companion as a pirate and give them the gun.
"Avast, ye scurvvy dogs, here be the great pirate lass Cait. Drop anchor and hand over all your psycho!"
*promptly shrugs off the whiffle balls fired from her intimidating cannon*
Post by: Nighthawk on April 07, 2016, 08:46:55 pm
Post by: umiman on April 07, 2016, 09:01:13 pm
You guys are talking about how bad this gun is as if there isn't a mod (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/2463/?) to fix the issue.Even in that mod, the broadsider is still shit.
Look at this:
Code: [Select]
Broadsider:
Default Damage Value - 33
Modded Damage Value - 60
Railway Rifle
Default Damage Value - 100
Modded Damage Value - 120
Missile Launcher
Default Damage - 15 Direct, 135 explosion
Modded Damage - 50 Direct, 250 Explosion
Hunting Rifle
Default Damage - 37
Modded Damage - 62Yup, it does less damage than a base hunting rifle.
Post by: MarcAFK on April 08, 2016, 06:55:11 am
Post by: Bluexdog on April 08, 2016, 06:57:50 am
As a newly started survivalist, I would love me a hunting rifle right about now.hunting rifles are good, go get shinkstab or grogknacks axe incase you run out of ammo
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 08, 2016, 08:06:29 am
Post by: BFEL on April 10, 2016, 09:50:30 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 10, 2016, 09:56:17 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on April 10, 2016, 10:15:41 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 10, 2016, 10:20:14 pm
Post by: BFEL on April 11, 2016, 07:12:57 am
whyBecause you weren't scarred enough yet :P
Anyway, playing with Legendary Modification and impressed that the mod author apparently already thought of/stamped out an exploit I tried.
Specifically, giving the Junk Jet the "Two Shot" modification for item dupes :P
BFEL is a terrible person.
Currently debating whether to give my missile launcher the "Two Shot" or "Never-Ending" mod. Two Shot is the obvious choice, but with Never Ending I could halve the things weight by giving it standard ammo cap instead of quad.
Post by: MarcAFK on April 12, 2016, 01:29:56 am
Reduced food and water need. Cool.
Fixed sleep cycle from 24 hours to 14 hours. Cool ? I guess, you need more sleep though.
Decreased resistance to infection. Shit.
Lowered carry weight 40%. Fuck.
Post by: Teneb on April 12, 2016, 09:50:46 am
Post by: Man of Paper on April 12, 2016, 10:07:23 am
Post by: JimboM12 on April 12, 2016, 02:26:55 pm
Post by: scriver on April 12, 2016, 03:15:06 pm
Post by: Damiac on April 14, 2016, 09:54:41 am
Anyway, I am liking some parts of survival. Suddenly I find myself sometimes choosing to drink irradiated drinks, and eat irradiated food, because a little rad damage is better than a huge stat penalty.
I really like the fact that everything does more damage to everything else. The previous hardest difficulty ended up with a lot of silly bullet sponge action.
The only save at a bed thing is annoying. I wish they at least gave you a save&quit option. I need to go to bed in real life sometimes too!
The lack of fast travel is interesting, I'll have to see how that plays out. It'd be nice if you could at least travel between settlements, because I imagine slogging back and forth through miles of wilderness is going to get annoying.
I want to know what the deal is with the deathclaw you have to fight at the beginning of the game. How exactly are you supposed to fight it in a non-stupid way? The only thing I can do to beat it is to run into a building it can't fit into, shoot it a few times until it runs away, walk back out, run back into my shelter, and get a few more shots off.
That just seems... stupid. Like, the first mission of the story is to learn to exploit the AI? That deathclaw will kill you in a couple of it's attacks, and it doesn't seem possible to just dodge it by maneuvering. It's probably the biggest difficulty spike in the game, especially since you have no real options at that point in the game. Also, the minigun is not as good of a weapon as the game would have you believe at that point...
Post by: JimboM12 on April 14, 2016, 10:21:09 am
I just started a new character for survival mode, decided to play as Roger Sterling from Madmen (The voice actor ruins it somewhat, but with a nice suit you can make it look pretty close)
Anyway, I am liking some parts of survival. Suddenly I find myself sometimes choosing to drink irradiated drinks, and eat irradiated food, because a little rad damage is better than a huge stat penalty.
I really like the fact that everything does more damage to everything else. The previous hardest difficulty ended up with a lot of silly bullet sponge action.
The only save at a bed thing is annoying. I wish they at least gave you a save&quit option. I need to go to bed in real life sometimes too!
The lack of fast travel is interesting, I'll have to see how that plays out. It'd be nice if you could at least travel between settlements, because I imagine slogging back and forth through miles of wilderness is going to get annoying.
I want to know what the deal is with the deathclaw you have to fight at the beginning of the game. How exactly are you supposed to fight it in a non-stupid way? The only thing I can do to beat it is to run into a building it can't fit into, shoot it a few times until it runs away, walk back out, run back into my shelter, and get a few more shots off.
That just seems... stupid. Like, the first mission of the story is to learn to exploit the AI? That deathclaw will kill you in a couple of it's attacks, and it doesn't seem possible to just dodge it by maneuvering. It's probably the biggest difficulty spike in the game, especially since you have no real options at that point in the game. Also, the minigun is not as good of a weapon as the game would have you believe at that point...
I think they wanted you to use the exploding vehicles to nuke some chunks of the deathclaws health down, but in the nature of things, it might not be in range as it's trying to disembowel you or the cars will already have been blown cuz of the preceding gun fight.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 14, 2016, 10:36:11 am
I just started a new character for survival mode, decided to play as Roger Sterling from Madmen (The voice actor ruins it somewhat, but with a nice suit you can make it look pretty close)
Anyway, I am liking some parts of survival. Suddenly I find myself sometimes choosing to drink irradiated drinks, and eat irradiated food, because a little rad damage is better than a huge stat penalty.
I really like the fact that everything does more damage to everything else. The previous hardest difficulty ended up with a lot of silly bullet sponge action.
The only save at a bed thing is annoying. I wish they at least gave you a save&quit option. I need to go to bed in real life sometimes too!
The lack of fast travel is interesting, I'll have to see how that plays out. It'd be nice if you could at least travel between settlements, because I imagine slogging back and forth through miles of wilderness is going to get annoying.
I want to know what the deal is with the deathclaw you have to fight at the beginning of the game. How exactly are you supposed to fight it in a non-stupid way? The only thing I can do to beat it is to run into a building it can't fit into, shoot it a few times until it runs away, walk back out, run back into my shelter, and get a few more shots off.
That just seems... stupid. Like, the first mission of the story is to learn to exploit the AI? That deathclaw will kill you in a couple of it's attacks, and it doesn't seem possible to just dodge it by maneuvering. It's probably the biggest difficulty spike in the game, especially since you have no real options at that point in the game. Also, the minigun is not as good of a weapon as the game would have you believe at that point...
I think the deathclaw got chumped by the raiders in my survival game. I didn't see it die, but it somehow got killed close to where it emerged.
Can't say I was too upset, but it was weird.
I suppose you could try luring it on to mines, or something? I don't see how you could face it toe-to-toe, to be honest.
It would certainly nice to have a save-and-quit mode, yeah. Even if it automatically deletes once you load it again.
Travel between settlements isn't too bad, since you can typically sprint it without taking too long. I've found I've built up Greygarden as a base, since that's more towards the middle of the map than Sanctuary.
Diseases seem... odd? Occasionally I seem to just catch one, without any cause like having taken radaway or animal bites.
Post by: JimboM12 on April 14, 2016, 11:18:14 am
I think the deathclaw got chumped by the raiders in my survival game. I didn't see it die, but it somehow got killed close to where it emerged.
Can't say I was too upset, but it was weird.
I suppose you could try luring it on to mines, or something? I don't see how you could face it toe-to-toe, to be honest.
Diseases seem... odd? Occasionally I seem to just catch one, without any cause like having taken radaway or animal bites.
If you let the raiders in the store/near the grate where it spawns live, they will turn on it and if you're lucky like I was one game they will all throw molotovs at the same time at it and even a deathclaw cannot survive multiple npc molotovs to the face. Even worse when the DoT effect gets to work on it while it tries to hunt them down one by one and eat more molotovs.
Maybe diseases can be caught via environmental causes: like walking in a puddle? No idea. !Science! is needed.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 14, 2016, 12:02:30 pm
I notice I occasionally catch diseases after sleeping. It seems to have happened more on dirty mattresses, but I'm sure it's happened on proper beds as well.
My survivability has skyrocketed now I've got some proper armour and ballistic weave clothes. Early on I was killed in a single burst from a raider auto pipe pistol, but now I can actually survive a few hits.
Post by: Damiac on April 14, 2016, 01:18:53 pm
One time, I managed to Fus-Ro-Dah it, or at least, the effect was similar. I had taken off about 1/4 of its health popping in and out of the doorway, when suddenly the deathclaw launched itself into the sky! I said "Oh no, it must have jumped onto the roof or something, now what?" But after a couple of seconds the deathclaw plopped down onto the ground, and died. So somehow it got launched way, way up into the air, and died from the fall. Hooray physics!
So that makes me think, they should set up some kind of see-saw where you knock a car off a ledge, it hits the see-saw, which you bait to get the deathclaw onto it, and it gets launched into the sky and dies upon landing. It'd be stupid, but less stupid than the current setup...
I somehow caught insomnia... from sleeping. I already had the fatigue disease... so now I want to sleep all the time, but I can't. And somehow, antibiotics can cure me of this. REALISM!!!
I also installed a mod that allows me to save in survival mode, because sleepy time simulation mode isn't what I had in mind for survival. Still, I only save in safe places, but now it's up to me not to abuse this. I do wish they had somehow worked dying into the game somehow though. Like dying made you lose caps/exp/something but whatever progress you had made was still made. They could handwave it as the institute not wanting their "Backup" to die and having installed a teleporter in you... or something.
Post by: BFEL on April 14, 2016, 01:40:56 pm
I also installed a mod that allows me to save in survival modeGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMME
Post by: Glloyd on April 14, 2016, 03:13:37 pm
Post by: scriver on April 14, 2016, 03:59:53 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on April 14, 2016, 04:04:28 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on April 14, 2016, 05:59:53 pm
Post by: Teneb on April 14, 2016, 06:25:25 pm
Post by: BFEL on April 14, 2016, 06:30:33 pm
I also installed a mod that allows me to save in survival modeGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMME
DAMIAC, GIMME!! :P
Post by: Vendayn on April 14, 2016, 11:49:11 pm
I still kinda like Skyrim more as a game, but I'm enjoying the stability and lack of stutters as it loads things in WAY more in Fallout 4. Bethesda really made huge improvements in the engine they use in that regard.
Post by: Neonivek on April 15, 2016, 01:00:30 am
Which is saying something.
Post by: MarcAFK on April 15, 2016, 03:16:29 am
I'm currently set up pretty well in starlight drive in, it's my first decent fully fenced off settlement and everything I have is being spent on concrete shipments, hopefully I'm not too bad at cyclopean brutalist architecture.
I've had a few frustrating deaths after I let my guard down, but I resist the urge to cheat for easy saving, the tension is immersive.
Post by: Damiac on April 15, 2016, 07:46:55 am
I also installed a mod that allows me to save in survival modeGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMMEGIMME
DAMIAC, GIMME!! :P
Hah, OK, grab this mod:
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11542/?
It's a zip file that you extract into your game folder (On my computer, that was at C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Fallout 4\Data)
Next, you have to edit a couple INI files, because this survival beta is a jerk and tries to turn off mods:
Look in this folder(replace (your user name) with... your user name in windows):
C:\Users\(your user name)\Documents\My games\Fallout4
Open Fallout4Custom.ini, and insert these lines at the end
Code: [Select]
[Archive]
bInvalidateOlderFiles=1
sResourceDataDirsFinal= Next, open Fallout4Prefs.iniFind [Launcher], and insert this line at the end of the section:
Code: [Select]
bEnableFileSelection=1And that's it. Now you can save in survival mode, although the quick save button still doesn't do anything. I try to restrict myself to saving only after clearing a location, or before some big event, as saving after every kill does tend to kill the tension, but obviously that's up to you.
Post by: MarcAFK on April 15, 2016, 08:24:35 am
*freeze* BSOD.
Gimmie the damn mod.
Post by: Damiac on April 15, 2016, 10:56:21 am
Post by: MarcAFK on April 15, 2016, 11:14:33 am
BSOD usually signals something wrong with your hardware. Do you get a lot of those?Not particularly, I used to find that overheating would reliably cause It, but this laptop doesn't overheat at all.
Post by: BFEL on April 15, 2016, 11:37:44 am
snipHmm, hope that using Nexus Mod Manager lets you turn it on, because I literally downloaded it because all the steps you just noted weren't working for other mods.
EDIT: Well, good news is that it works. WOOO! Bad news is my OTHER mods don't work with survival. BOOO!
So much as I want to play me some survival, I want to have no level requirements, legendaries of my choice and the ability to ignore their arbitrary decision of what shit can have other things worn over it more.
Post by: Vendayn on April 16, 2016, 03:51:40 am
Ariel Auduin (same name as my Skyrim character) :)
http://imgur.com/WvqRIP7
Post by: BFEL on April 16, 2016, 04:45:50 am
Post by: sprinkled chariot on April 16, 2016, 07:30:11 am
Post by: BigD145 on April 16, 2016, 09:48:08 am
So how many dlcs bethesda is going to make?
Worthwhile DLC's? Or all DLC's?
Post by: Vendayn on April 16, 2016, 05:41:07 pm
I sided with Institute. Went to fight a ton of Brotherhood of Steel. And two things...
One, they shout something about me being a heathen of god or something along that lines. They shouted like they belonged in Warhammer. But also it seems Bethesda has turned BoS into a bunch of technology hoarding crusaders...and nowhere in Fallout lore as far as I know are BoS a bunch of religious crusaders fighting in the name of "God". Is there anything in lore about that, that is NOT from Bethesda? It sounded like I'd hear it from the guys in Warhammer lol...it didn't sound like it fit Fallout BoS...AT ALL
Next...
When I went to fight in the initial introduction to Institute. There was a huge battle between Synths, Railroad and BoS. And...everyone was friendly to me. I literally just walked along the battle scene, ignoring everything and won the mission by not doing anything.
And then you literally get pop ups saying "Are you SURE you want to do this? This will make the brotherhood of steel hate you!"...I never played a Bethesda game with lame pop ups like that lol. Every other game I do what I want
That I think is my biggest issue with Fallout 4, is there is no consequences at all, nothing you do actually matters that much. And bethesda really makes it so you don't make any mistake at all, and gives you huge pop up warnings before hand. That wasn't like that in any other Fallout or Elder Scrolls game I played.
Overall though, I am still having a ton of fun in Fallout 4. But, there is definitely things that are terrible about it lol. Mostly I think I love the vastly more stable and performance friendly engine. Its vastly better than Skyrim's engine. Plus the mods out help quite a bit, even without advanced modding capabilities.
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 16, 2016, 05:43:25 pm
Everything else I don't really have an opinion on so I ignore it.
Post by: NullForceOmega on April 16, 2016, 08:46:55 pm
Post by: Baijiu on April 16, 2016, 10:55:40 pm
Post by: Putnam on April 16, 2016, 11:02:37 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 16, 2016, 11:08:08 pm
Post by: sprinkled chariot on April 17, 2016, 12:14:48 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 17, 2016, 12:27:31 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on April 17, 2016, 12:30:16 am
Post by: Rolan7 on April 17, 2016, 01:30:05 am
That I think is my biggest issue with Fallout 4, is there is no consequences at all, nothing you do actually matters that much. And bethesda really makes it so you don't make any mistake at all, and gives you huge pop up warnings before hand. That wasn't like that in any other Fallout or Elder Scrolls game I played.I agree. I had a lot of fun with FO4 too, but it's really railroaded. Unpopular Culture compared it to Far Cry, which is maybe a bit unfair (though I love elements that FO4 and FC share). But there's much more focus on loot, and the quests are a bit more open.
Overall though, I am still having a ton of fun in Fallout 4. But, there is definitely things that are terrible about it lol. Mostly I think I love the vastly more stable and performance friendly engine. Its vastly better than Skyrim's engine. Plus the mods out help quite a bit, even without advanced modding capabilities.
In other words, it's Borderlands. Like I predicted as soon as they removed the skill system.
Though sure sure, it's in the Fallout *setting*...
Except the BoS is almost unrecognizable.
The other factions are basically new.
As are the feral ghouls, basically zombies which are suddenly everywhere
Pipe weapons all of a sudden, and energy muskets, and even the classic guns are almost unrecognizable
Power armor is suddenly mobile suits which burn power from *walking*, and have jetpack mounts, instead of being long-term protection for line infantry.
A lot of that makes for cool gameplay, it just really doesn't feel like Fallout to me. The visual style, neither. But I could get around those changes, mostly because they make for a interesting shooter.
But not only did they not reference on the events of New Vegas whatsoever that I saw, but they barely reference Fallout 3. I guess because "nobody" liked FO3, supposedly, but dangit they made it and it took place nearby. And what do we get? A Brotherhood that apparently made up with the Outcasts for some reason, and some magazines called the Wasteland Survival Guide. Which don't look like the freakin Wasteland Survival Guide.
Compare to Fallout 2 where people still talked about the Vault Dweller's exploits a couple generations later. Establishing the canon choices, and the impact that the player character had in Fallout 1. Which got followed up even farther in New Vegas... Jeez, New Vegas did a better job referencing Fallout 3 than Fallout 4 did! So they're snubbing FO3 hard, and I don't really appreciate that!?
All that, and then they give us a choice of two predefined voiced characters with predefined backgrounds... Removed the karma and faction systems... And stripped the RPG mechanics to the absolute bare bone. Borderlands 2 offered more interesting choices than this. Less perks, but more meaningful ones. And the guns were wildly more interesting... And oh wow, this ridiculous mutating "legendary enemy" thing is just painful. And trying to juggle shoulder and leg slots with this horrible interface! Yeah, sorry, I'm leaving this thing unfinished. I'd rather reinstall Far Cry 4, at least until the creation kit finally rolls out. Or Skyrim, where they respected the lore.
This is a decent modern shooter with a terrible crafting/building system, an okay perk tree, and the rotting skin of a franchise I cared about. I feel like an idiot for getting so excited when I saw the Brotherhood in-game.
Post by: NullForceOmega on April 17, 2016, 01:31:47 am
I dont know, if it is same way in USA, but from personal experiencr military guys seem to be pretty religious. Might make sense for organization founded bh remnants of army to have strong beliefs.
Yeah, as an ex-US soldier, no, not really. Soldiers are about duty, not god, and we'd really prefer if he got the hell off our battlefield.
Also, koss, the BoS is literally descended from members of the US army and some of their families, it goes in to a great deal of detail in Fallout 1 about that.
Bowtie, the Enclave is Poseidon Oil co. an analogy of Standard Oil, and meant to represent the worst remnants of the old world, note that one of their major activities in Fallout 2 is wiping out the BoS to eliminate the people who would recognize them for what they are, the greedy bastards who got the world nuked in the first place, hell the oil rig you have to destroy is the very reason the war happened.
Post by: Flying Dice on April 17, 2016, 03:15:24 am
Post by: Krevsin on April 17, 2016, 03:21:52 am
It's for the best, I find.
Post by: Sinistar on April 17, 2016, 03:40:23 am
That I think is my biggest issue with Fallout 4, is there is no consequences at all, nothing you do actually matters that much.And I thought FO3 was terrible?
And bethesda really makes it so you don't make any mistake at all, and gives you huge pop up warnings before hand.Nope, don't like it.
In other words, it's Borderlands. Like I predicted as soon as they removed the skill system.Wait what
Except the BoS is almost unrecognizable.double wat
The other factions are basically new.
As are the feral ghouls, basically zombies which are suddenly everywhere
Pipe weapons all of a sudden, and energy muskets, and even the classic guns are almost unrecognizable
But not only did they not reference on the events of New Vegas whatsoever that I saw, but they barely reference Fallout 3. I guess because "nobody" liked FO3, supposedly, but dangit they made it and it took place nearby. And what do we get? A Brotherhood that apparently made up with the Outcasts for some reason, and some magazines called the Wasteland Survival Guide. Which don't look like the freakin Wasteland Survival Guide.do I hate that oh man
All that, and then they give us a choice of two predefined voiced characters with predefined backgrounds... Removed the karma and faction systems... And stripped the RPG mechanics to the absolute bare bone.holy shit waaat
what the hell happened
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 17, 2016, 03:41:23 am
Post by: Sinistar on April 17, 2016, 03:43:54 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 17, 2016, 03:45:37 am
Post by: Sinistar on April 17, 2016, 03:47:01 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 17, 2016, 03:49:54 am
YIPPIE YAAAAAY
(oooooooo~)
THERE'LL BE NO WEDDIN' BELLS FOR TODAAAY
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DD_NCM_RJs)
Post by: Sinistar on April 17, 2016, 03:58:47 am
Post by: Rolan7 on April 17, 2016, 09:22:02 am
bethesda came back, made a good game but a bad fallout game (is what some say; i think it's an alright fallout game)Yeah now that I have that rant out of me I'd like to reiterate that it's a pretty good game. I love games that are like it. It just didn't feel like Fallout to me (and other people, like you say).
I'm glad people like it though, and it could have been a lot worse. I'm glad they added a bunch of good mechanics like the power armor. It's just so different, in style and mechanics, and barely connects with the other games plot-wise.
Post by: Krevsin on April 17, 2016, 10:51:18 am
Actually, the bit about "predefined characters with predefined backgrounds" is massively exaggerated. The character's "backgrounds" only really come into play in the start and even then it's extremely bare-bones (You're a war veteran/lawyer and have a child with this guy/gal, SUDDENLY NUKES).All that, and then they give us a choice of two predefined voiced characters with predefined backgrounds... Removed the karma and faction systems... And stripped the RPG mechanics to the absolute bare bone.holy shit waaat
what the hell happened
It's not like you're suddenly Geralt of Rivia and how he's a well-established character in his gameworld. Hell, even Commander Shepard somehow feels more pre-established than the protagonist(s) of FO4.
The game feels really schizophrenic when it tries to start off with a "you're this guy/gal and this is your background" and then never really takes it into account, ever.
The bit about the RPG mechanics being bare-boned? That bit is true, tho.
Post by: Rolan7 on April 17, 2016, 11:17:46 am
I actually really liked the main quest, and maybe having the protagonist voiced added some emotional impact. It just felt like a good story I was watching, and sometimes choosing between "angry" and "sad" in the cutscenes. And the speech wheel is less predictable than in Mass Effect... Too vague, actually ruined a couple of tender companion moments when I tried to make a lighthearted joke and jeered them instead. Based on a nebulous prompt like "Tapes" or "Duty". I could get that mod that shows the actual choices though.
Oh, Alpha Protocol is another game I absolutely loved and was a lot like this! Except that's honest about you playing a developer-crafted character, whereas this is supposed to be a Bethesda RPG.
Post by: Krevsin on April 17, 2016, 11:32:03 am
I really, really, really love the visuals. It's not the prettiest game out there but I just really enjoy its visual style, especially how they amped the 50s retrofuturistic aesthetic and the fact that it is a post-apocalyptic world that still looks vibrant and bright.
I also felt the world was somewhat better designed than in Fallout 3. There's still an overabundance of raiders, but what I really liked was how if you sneak up on them you can occassionally hear them have conversations or talk about what they did which I feel is a really nice touch.
Overall, Fallout 4 is a game that I really enjoyed and would recommend to people, though with some significant caveats (especially to fans of the old Fallout games). The dialogue system is really unneccessarily limiting, the RPG mechanics are stripped down and the settlements system is not as well fleshed out as it might be, but overall I quite enjoyed it.
Though seriously I'd murder someone to get Obsidian to make a game based on its engine.
Post by: Flying Dice on April 17, 2016, 12:06:31 pm
Post by: Vendayn on April 17, 2016, 02:23:58 pm
It IS a good game, it is a lot of fun.
However, if it was called an FPS (not an RPG, or at least an FPS-RPG hybrid sorta like Borderlands (it has some RPG mechanics sorta) and NOT called Fallout...I wouldn't even complain and wouldn't think anything of it lol.
Its pretty much Borderlands in a Fallout skin, with a heavy dose of Mass Effect.
However, I LOVE the art style. Its probably one of my favorite things about the game. The graphics are plenty good enough to me. The FPS mechanics are great, and I love the power armor. There is a lot of good in Fallout 4...just too bad its called Fallout 4 :P
Post by: Flying Dice on April 17, 2016, 02:58:13 pm
In particular the boost to VATS where the right build is basically FO3's VATS "I Win" button without the flaws. That's not an FPS, that's a hybrid-system tactics RPG.
Or from a different perspective it's both an FPS and an RPG, and the people claiming it isn't are being anal about their definitions because it doesn't fit their preconceptions. Mostly because the skills were folded into a larger, more sensible feat system.
Post by: Virtz on April 17, 2016, 04:16:41 pm
Like I think it's a bit late to be complaining about reduction of RPG elements now. That happened way more between 2 and 3.
Post by: nenjin on April 17, 2016, 04:53:17 pm
Side quest amount to your average Bethesda game side-quest but I feel like some of them are more memorable due to the flavor. (Which tends toward the absurd.) And there are a lot of them. (Again more of that "high density content" I mentioned.)
Settlement building may not matter per se but it still got me to believe more in the world by dint of putting my mark on it. Sanctuary is a goddamn fortress now thanks to me. Little shit like building a walk in garage for my power armor, only accessible from my Money Penny Tower-like home, arranging my "Office" full of my display cases and racks, curio-cabinets of game quest items I keep as mementos, gun racks, my bar with my liquor collection...I put way more hours into the game because of it.
I basically cleared 100% of the map north of Diamond City so I feel like I've seen pretty much all of the early and mid game. FO4 isn't so good it magically stopped being a Bethesda game, but it's probably the slickest one to date. Normally I get 40 or 60 hours into a vanilla Bethesda game before the irrelevance of the mechanics and loot and world make me stop. But I think I went over 100 hours into FO4 because there was just enough there to keep me playing: guns, legendary items, magazines, power armor, customization, building. For someone who likes to live in Bethesda world as best it lets them, FO4 is a real step up on a lot of levels. For those who just want a better roleplaying experience via the game mechanics and story like the FO originals, FO4 is pretty much the same game Bethesda always makes.
One day Bethesda might remember that "the shit you do or don't do matters" is what made the original FO games so popular and actually make the world tick. Until then though, FO4 is set to be the Bethesda game that you can waste a billion hours on customizing yourself, your surroundings and add to the game world without mods. And mods will only dog pile on top of that. So this may be the Bethesda game for the ages for quite a while on that basis alone. It's certainly set a new standard on what we expect out of Bethesda games (on the scale of Bethesda games, that is :P)
Post by: Rolan7 on April 17, 2016, 04:53:58 pm
How exactly is 4 less of an RPG than 3, tho? Like what has changed? Is it the 0-5 scale instead of 1-100 for skills? Is it the lower number of dialogue choices that FO3 didn't really make use of either?If you think 0-5 (or 0-3) perks, hardlocked to level, and hardlocked to a primary stat, are the equivalent of assigning skillpoints... Then I'm sure you loved Skyrim? I had the impression you were more a Morrowind fan, but maybe you welcomed that convenient streamlining.
Like I think it's a bit late to be complaining about reduction of RPG elements now. That happened way more between 2 and 3.
Yeah they dropped some skills between 2 and 3, because they were translating into three dimensions. The Outdoorsman skill didn't make sense without random encounters. And it sucks that they capped skills at 100 for some reason. But Fallout 4 is an entirely different category of game. Fallout or not, it's just another perk-based shooter in terms of mechanics. They dropped or combined several more stats, even counting these ridiculous "perk" replacements.
What happened to taking mentats to solve a puzzle? That was in 3 and NV, but now it's just a tiny temporary XP boost. That's all intelligence does anymore! It's gone from an optimal stat to literally useless, comparing characters of equal level. So good luck with those level-matched enemies.
Want to solve a quest nonviolentally? Put on your best clothes and drink some liquid confidence that you made by assigning those int-based skillpoints to Survival and crafting special concoctions- no, none of that. Enjoy a pure CHA check to maybe get some trivial info, or occasionally avoid a firefight.
Besides, why compare it to FO3? I loved FO3, but NV really improved the RPG mechanics (besides nerfing VATS to hell, which only seems to bother me).
Post by: nenjin on April 17, 2016, 04:59:18 pm
Yeah, FO4 is to FO3 as Skyrim is to Oblivion and Oblivion is to Morrowind. That's just the reality with Bethesda these days. At least the Perks ended up being fun and there was variety to them, unlike Skyrim whose perks were just boring as shit. I'd prefer Morrowind-style mechanics and I know plenty of people would but eventually you have to face facts they're not going back that way. FO4's skills did a good job of not making me think about them so I spent more time with my face in the action than in the perk screen. For better or worse, it works well with the kind of game Bethesda is now making these days. Best I can hope is one day they pare it down so far that their designers are like "Maybe we should try something, you know, interesting."
Post by: Rolan7 on April 17, 2016, 05:01:03 pm
I am glad people love this game. I enjoyed it too, I can't deny!
Post by: nenjin on April 17, 2016, 05:11:09 pm
We'll see when the next Eldar Scrolls drops. I've accepted it for FO because it's its own series, has always been lighter on mechanics than ES games, and I accept the triviality of a lot of it due to the branding (S.P.E.C.I.A.L, Vault Boy, etc...) I don't know if I'd enjoy an ES game that has de-emphasized the RPG side of it as much as FO has. But in FO4, "it just works."
Post by: Rolan7 on April 17, 2016, 05:39:04 pm
You're totally right about Skyrim though, and I think ideally they'd both be well balanced and crunchy (at least before mods). Heck, I enjoyed the completely unbalanced power fantasy more in Oblivion because I had to at least complete the mage guild quests first. Whereas in Skyrim it was simply "hey with stealth and archery I can kill anything. Oh hello poison and enchantment, I don't really need you but welcome"
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on April 17, 2016, 07:56:48 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on April 17, 2016, 08:14:25 pm
Post by: Sirbug on April 17, 2016, 11:13:01 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on April 17, 2016, 11:18:34 pm
Being able to master any specific skill because you're intelligent is cool.
What do you even think was the god stat and the dump stat? Because I can't think of any, except possibly dumping luck. Which *gave a straight bonus to every single skill*
Post by: Krevsin on April 18, 2016, 12:41:44 am
Seriously people, I know that Borderlands is the biggest reference people have for "FPS-RPG Hybrid" but Fallout 4 isn't even remotely similar (apart from the fact that it's first person and you shoot stuff (but by that logic every FPS is Borderlands with a different skin)) in its mechanics. It is, as has been said, more like a Far Cry game with more RPG elements.
Not to mention the fact that while Fallout 4's shooting is superior to FNV's and miles ahead of FO3, it's not quite at the level of Borderlands 2 yet.
What happened to taking mentats to solve a puzzle? That was in 3 and NV, but now it's just a tiny temporary XP boost. That's all intelligence does anymore! It's gone from an optimal stat to literally useless, comparing characters of equal level. So good luck with those level-matched enemies.Erm, you can still do that. Clothes still give you a CHA boost and so do various drugs. If you want to take mentats to achieve that, take grape mentats. they're the ones with a CHA boost.
Want to solve a quest nonviolentally? Put on your best clothes and drink some liquid confidence that you made by assigning those int-based skillpoints to Survival and crafting special concoctions- no, none of that. Enjoy a pure CHA check to maybe get some trivial info, or occasionally avoid a firefight.
Now if your complaint is that more situations cannot be solved by talking, using different stats than Charisma or skill checks then yes, you are entirely correct.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on April 18, 2016, 01:24:52 am
gosh darn it i want that a lot now
Post by: Ultimuh on April 18, 2016, 02:23:28 am
...Why was there never an actual Diablo in first person. Oh my god. That'd be fucking great. Same theme, same time-period, same hilarious amount of enemies, but you're in first person.So you want Skyrim with completely randomized loot?
gosh darn it i want that a lot now
Post by: Glloyd on April 18, 2016, 04:37:13 am
...Why was there never an actual Diablo in first person. Oh my god. That'd be fucking great. Same theme, same time-period, same hilarious amount of enemies, but you're in first person.So you want Skyrim with completely randomized loot?
gosh darn it i want that a lot now
You're implying that Skyrim is a first person Diablo though. Which in itself implies that you've either never played Skyrim or never played Diablo.
Post by: Ultimuh on April 18, 2016, 07:23:25 am
With the right mods Skyrim can indeed become almost like Diablo....Why was there never an actual Diablo in first person. Oh my god. That'd be fucking great. Same theme, same time-period, same hilarious amount of enemies, but you're in first person.So you want Skyrim with completely randomized loot?
gosh darn it i want that a lot now
You're implying that Skyrim is a first person Diablo though. Which in itself implies that you've either never played Skyrim or never played Diablo.
True though, Skyrim might never have radom dungeon generation, but there are plenty of other things that mods can do do emulate the Diablo experience.
Post by: MarcAFK on April 18, 2016, 08:32:59 am
Post by: Virtz on April 18, 2016, 12:47:16 pm
If you think 0-5 (or 0-3) perks, hardlocked to level, and hardlocked to a primary stat, are the equivalent of assigning skillpoints... Then I'm sure you loved Skyrim? I had the impression you were more a Morrowind fan, but maybe you welcomed that convenient streamlining.As far as I remember, most of FO3's skills only really did anything meaningful in 25 point increments anyway. And while I like Morrowind more than the Action rpgs we're getting, I prefer that either part be on par with other games in the genre rather than leave both mediocre, and as such I still consider Oblivion and FO3 the low-point of modern Bethesda. Plus I don't think Bethesda has the writers and world designers to pull off a slower paced RPG like Morrowind anymore. Like they tried to reintroduce parts of Morrowind in Dragonborn, but it just wasn't good.
Yeah they dropped some skills between 2 and 3, because they were translating into three dimensions. The Outdoorsman skill didn't make sense without random encounters. And it sucks that they capped skills at 100 for some reason. But Fallout 4 is an entirely different category of game. Fallout or not, it's just another perk-based shooter in terms of mechanics. They dropped or combined several more stats, even counting these ridiculous "perk" replacements.
What happened to taking mentats to solve a puzzle? That was in 3 and NV, but now it's just a tiny temporary XP boost. That's all intelligence does anymore! It's gone from an optimal stat to literally useless, comparing characters of equal level. So good luck with those level-matched enemies.
Want to solve a quest nonviolentally? Put on your best clothes and drink some liquid confidence that you made by assigning those int-based skillpoints to Survival and crafting special concoctions- no, none of that. Enjoy a pure CHA check to maybe get some trivial info, or occasionally avoid a firefight.
Besides, why compare it to FO3? I loved FO3, but NV really improved the RPG mechanics (besides nerfing VATS to hell, which only seems to bother me).
Between 2 and 3 they also made everything scale to your level so hard you start the game by butchering half the security team of a vault and still have enough stamina to go and butcher an entire town right outside it, along with a herd of deathclaws. And that's with a totally average build. You don't need stats for anything, you could just beat the game at level 1 if it didn't force level you whenever you earned enough XP. FO4 at least reintroduced more dangerous areas and enemy types that'll murder you at the start (or took it from NV, I suppose).
And well, what happened to taking damage some time after taking stimpacks? They weren't health potions before. Why did radiation become something that kills you after at most 1000 seconds rather than something that does it slowly over a longer period? What happened to HPs? They were in double digits throughout most of the game in 1 and 2, and now you start off with over a hundred. Why is every late game enemy a Frank Horrigan level bullet sponge? What happened to injecting enemies with meds? What happened to wrecking doors? What happened to electronic lockpicks? What happened to power armour? It could shrug off small arms fire in previous games, so why is it storm trooper armour in 3 (and thankfully restored to the walking tank it was supposed to be, in 4)? What happened to miniguns? They've been garbage since FO3. In fact, all weapon types have had this bland DPS balance applied to them.
It just goes on and on, and some of it FO4 actually undid, such as the power armour being crap, but all the worst balance changes that made everything in the game world so bland were in 3, as far as I'm concerned. And you could argue these changes didn't make it less of an RPG, but to me they made it an RPG so bland it could be an MMO.
I'll give you the lessened quest choices, but I sorta expected that after Skyrim didn't do it. They gave up on the one improvement to their RPG mechanics from FO3, even if they were poorly written. I guess it just made it harder to script quests and they didn't feel like it was worth it.
NV improved it, alright, but that was Obsidian. Doing complex questlines with decent to good writing in otherwise buggy and janky games is their thing. I don't imagine Bethesda trying to do what they do any time soon. At most we can hope for an Obsidian spin-off to a Bethesda game happening again.
Post by: Krevsin on April 18, 2016, 02:11:02 pm
If I repeat that sentence long enough it's bound to come true, right?
Right?
Post by: Teneb on April 18, 2016, 02:15:15 pm
I would murder, beg and steal to get an Obsidian-developed game in Fallout 4's engine.Actually, just let Bethesda do the game except for anything related to writing, and hire Obsidian for that. Sure, gameplay still won't be stellar, but it's probably the best possible situation that could maybe happen.
If I repeat that sentence long enough it's bound to come true, right?
Right?
Post by: Krevsin on April 18, 2016, 02:16:37 pm
To be fair, and this might be a controversial point, butI would murder, beg and steal to get an Obsidian-developed game in Fallout 4's engine.Actually, just let Bethesda do the game except for anything related to writing, and hire Obsidian for that. Sure, gameplay still won't be stellar, but it's probably the best possible situation that could maybe happen.
If I repeat that sentence long enough it's bound to come true, right?
Right?
Bethesda never really made a game with stellar gameplay. The closest they've managed is "decent".
Post by: symonthewise on April 18, 2016, 02:22:02 pm
Post by: nenjin on April 18, 2016, 03:16:00 pm
I agree non of their games have ever been stellar. But Morrowind was fun. You could own that experience via enchanting.
Since then you're just plodding down the pre-decided gameplay path Bethesda has mapped out.
Post by: Ultimuh on April 18, 2016, 03:30:30 pm
You could own that experience via enchanting.
That and the ability to make your own spells, (I think? My memory is kind of vague.), spears (I miss spears), throwing weapons, ability to leap great heights and distances, a variety of daedra, non-generic enemies. And so on..
Post by: nenjin on April 18, 2016, 04:20:31 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on April 18, 2016, 05:00:47 pm
And you could argue these changes didn't make it less of an RPG, but to me they made it an RPG so bland it could be an MMO.And I would completely agree.
I'm just saying that it's pretty much into No True Scotsman territory when you start trying to exclude RPGs from being called RPGs because they don't adhere to the narrowly defined terms you've come up with for the sole purpose of excluding them.
Post by: Virtz on April 18, 2016, 05:37:33 pm
Well, that's another can of worms called the "what is an RPG?" topic. Thing is there's no official definition. People have different definitions for what constitutes an RPG, and how much something has to adhere to that definition to be a plain or "pure" RPG rather than a hybrid, a different genre with RPG elements, or just a game from an unrelated genre all together.And you could argue these changes didn't make it less of an RPG, but to me they made it an RPG so bland it could be an MMO.And I would completely agree.
I'm just saying that it's pretty much into No True Scotsman territory when you start trying to exclude RPGs from being called RPGs because they don't adhere to the narrowly defined terms you've come up with for the sole purpose of excluding them.
Post by: Sirbug on April 18, 2016, 11:14:29 pm
No, being able to defy your attributes is cool.What do I mean by god stats and dump stats? Well, for example, you said yourself
Being able to master any specific skill because you're intelligent is cool.
What do you even think was the god stat and the dump stat? Because I can't think of any, except possibly dumping luck. Which *gave a straight bonus to every single skill*
Quote
Being able to master any specific skill because you're intelligent
Meanwhile Charisma is almost never checked substituted with Speech skill. Endurance was a dump stat. Agility was a god stat because 10 AG is a difference between shooting once and twice with most guns.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on April 19, 2016, 12:00:05 am
Post by: Flying Dice on April 19, 2016, 12:37:06 am
AGI was core in 3 because it gave you your AP for VATS and applied to two of the most important skills in the game. It only became more core in NV because they added extra utility to it. INT was likewise core because it directly increased your rate of advancement, affected three key general skills, and was used in (what felt like to me) much more than 1/7th of the attribute dialogue options.
So yeah. Pretty much every character in 3 and NV would pump AGI and INT plus one or two other stats, leave STR at average (unless they pumped it), and dump the rest into the gutter. Unless you were doing a deliberately suboptimal build, that is.
4 did a very good job in that regard. CHA and LUK are both obscenely broken, PER and AGI are both very strong, and END had some additional utility added while INT was made a bit less strong, leaving us with a situation where the three weakest SPECIAL stats are still decent enough to make you regret dumping them. Moreover, the feat system Bethesda implemented and the ability to increase SPECIAL stats after character creation has resulted in a dynamic where there are fewer numbers to watch increase, but there is a much greater sense of impactfulness behind level-up decisions. It used to be that the biggest and most impressive things you could get were generally skill milestones (i.e. what are now the lockpick feats) and numerical increases to one thing or another, barring the occasional Bloody Mess and Mysterious Stranger. Moreover, most of the really interesting stuff was hard-capped by level so you couldn't get it for most of your playthrough.
In Fallout 4 you can start getting interesting abilities as early as level 1 (depending on your SPECIAL spread), a lot of the weaker feats that were kept have been bulked up or combined (Hey there, Mister Sandman), and a lot of the really mundane ones have had more interesting effects added to their higher levels.
So yeah, if you like RPGs because you like watching a bunch of largely meaningless numbers increment upwards a little bit every so often, that's probably what you're missing in FO4. But no, it's definitely more like an MMO or Diablo than it used to be. ::)
Post by: Yolan on April 19, 2016, 04:34:09 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 19, 2016, 06:38:17 am
And well, what happened to taking damage some time after taking stimpacks? They weren't health potions before. Why did radiation become something that kills you after at most 1000 seconds rather than something that does it slowly over a longer period? What happened to HPs? They were in double digits throughout most of the game in 1 and 2, and now you start off with over a hundred. Why is every late game enemy a Frank Horrigan level bullet sponge? What happened to injecting enemies with meds? What happened to wrecking doors? What happened to electronic lockpicks? What happened to power armour? It could shrug off small arms fire in previous games, so why is it storm trooper armour in 3 (and thankfully restored to the walking tank it was supposed to be, in 4)? What happened to miniguns? They've been garbage since FO3. In fact, all weapon types have had this bland DPS balance applied to them.Stimpacks have always been just health restoration.
It just goes on and on, and some of it FO4 actually undid, such as the power armour being crap, but all the worst balance changes that made everything in the game world so bland were in 3, as far as I'm concerned. And you could argue these changes didn't make it less of an RPG, but to me they made it an RPG so bland it could be an MMO.
Every single fallout game.
What you might be thinking of is super stimpacks, which healed 75 hp and did 3 then 6 damage at the 1 then 2 minute mark, at least in FO1 and 2.
HP had inflated, but so has damage.
Ignoring poison...
Radscorpion in FO1 does 1-8 damage per melee attack.
Radscorpion in FO3 does 22 damage per melee attack.
Radiation was an issue in what, one place in FO1 and FO2? The Glow in FO and... maybe the Toxic caves in FO2?
It works pretty much the same way, as well; while FO2 did a little bit of HP damage as well, what it did was reduce your special stats by successive amounts as rad count increased. Though, if one of them reached zero, you died. Or you got over 1000 rads, when you died after 24 hours.
But it pretty much wasn't ever a concern.
The minigun does still have a higher DPS than any of the conventional small guns or energy weapons in FO3, and has one of the highest DPSs of all in NV.
Oh yeah, CHA was a dump stat through and through. END as well, since gameplay tended to favor the same old super-high-damage stealth alpha strikes where you instagib most of the enemies and clean up with VATS. LUK was a dump stat (especially after the level cap was raised by DLC and mods) since you'd max your skills pretty quickly anyways and it only affect regular crits, while sneak attack crits were guaranteed. STR wasn't quite a dump stat in 3, but you could safely leave it at 4-6 points, wherever you felt most comfortable having your carry weight at. It became a core stat for most characters in NV to some extent because of the return of weapon STR requirements. PER could safely be dumped unless you were doing an energy weapons build from the start or needed the crutch of the psychic compass markers.Really? I always considered AGI a dump stat in NV, since they nerfed VATS. STR was useful, I liked having decent END for the implants, and high luck let you get dat money early on in gambling quickly.
AGI was core in 3 because it gave you your AP for VATS and applied to two of the most important skills in the game. It only became more core in NV because they added extra utility to it. INT was likewise core because it directly increased your rate of advancement, affected three key general skills, and was used in (what felt like to me) much more than 1/7th of the attribute dialogue options.
So yeah. Pretty much every character in 3 and NV would pump AGI and INT plus one or two other stats, leave STR at average (unless they pumped it), and dump the rest into the gutter. Unless you were doing a deliberately suboptimal build, that is.
Post by: BFEL on April 19, 2016, 07:08:11 am
The biggest complaint I have with the new tree thing is the level reqs, and there's a mod for that so...
While it DOES lend itself to simplifying things that for example NV handled with skill checks that could EASILY be ported to the new system without a huge amount of pain. Y'know, if Bethesda actually cared about player agency or something :P
Post by: Sirbug on April 19, 2016, 09:29:59 am
Post by: Sergius on April 19, 2016, 09:50:12 am
I would fix the interface to make it searchable, or of you could select to sort them by SPECIAL, or level or some sort of category (ranged, melee, crafting, etc).
That doesn't mean I love the game world or story or quests or whatever. Just the perk system (other stuff are a bit hit and miss IMO).
Post by: Virtz on April 19, 2016, 11:57:48 am
Indeed I was thinking super stimpaks after all. Maybe the health loss for regular stimpaks was a thing in the demo? Prolly not and I'm just misremembering, tho. My bad.And well, what happened to taking damage some time after taking stimpacks? They weren't health potions before. Why did radiation become something that kills you after at most 1000 seconds rather than something that does it slowly over a longer period? What happened to HPs? They were in double digits throughout most of the game in 1 and 2, and now you start off with over a hundred. Why is every late game enemy a Frank Horrigan level bullet sponge? What happened to injecting enemies with meds? What happened to wrecking doors? What happened to electronic lockpicks? What happened to power armour? It could shrug off small arms fire in previous games, so why is it storm trooper armour in 3 (and thankfully restored to the walking tank it was supposed to be, in 4)? What happened to miniguns? They've been garbage since FO3. In fact, all weapon types have had this bland DPS balance applied to them.Stimpacks have always been just health restoration.
It just goes on and on, and some of it FO4 actually undid, such as the power armour being crap, but all the worst balance changes that made everything in the game world so bland were in 3, as far as I'm concerned. And you could argue these changes didn't make it less of an RPG, but to me they made it an RPG so bland it could be an MMO.
Every single fallout game.
What you might be thinking of is super stimpacks, which healed 75 hp and did 3 then 6 damage at the 1 then 2 minute mark, at least in FO1 and 2.
HP had inflated, but so has damage.
Ignoring poison...
Radscorpion in FO1 does 1-8 damage per melee attack.
Radscorpion in FO3 does 22 damage per melee attack.
Radiation was an issue in what, one place in FO1 and FO2? The Glow in FO and... maybe the Toxic caves in FO2?
It works pretty much the same way, as well; while FO2 did a little bit of HP damage as well, what it did was reduce your special stats by successive amounts as rad count increased. Though, if one of them reached zero, you died. Or you got over 1000 rads, when you died after 24 hours.
But it pretty much wasn't ever a concern.
The minigun does still have a higher DPS than any of the conventional small guns or energy weapons in FO3, and has one of the highest DPSs of all in NV.
The damage amounts haven't exactly scaled proportionately with the health amount, though. That 8 is 26.66% of the average starting player's health. That 22 damage is 11%. You're also discounting criticals, which happened like crazy in FO1 and 2, especially in the late game where you shot everyone in the eyes, usually one-shotting them. It was basically the opposite of FO3 where everything becomes a massive bullet sponge regardless of where you shoot it at later levels.
Fair enough with the radiation, but I still say it was handled better. In most cases it didn't insta-kill you once some clearly visible meter filled up. Also, having a built-in geiger counter, including being able to know what radiation level something you're considering eating is gonna give, kind of ruins the whole "phantom death" aspect. Lore-wise it didn't even make sense for every vaultboy to be equipped with one considering your vault was meant to stay, and I'm pretty sure there were vaults where the denizens weren't even supposed to know they're getting radiated. Kind of hard not to notice with that ticking radiation gauge.
The minigun can't hit anything and doesn't hit that hard when it does. It was costly but deadly in FO 1 and 2. It could murder a group of people in one burst at low to mid range. Like don't get me wrong, it wasn't the best (mostly due to friendly fire and costliness), but it had a use, and it was effective. A minigun in 3 or 4 I could never find a use for. It's just heavy, doesn't hit a whole lot and uses up ammo quickly.
Post by: umiman on April 19, 2016, 12:03:59 pm
Wondering when this is likely to come on sale. Maybe I have quite a bit longer to wait?? Gah.Been on sale a few times now.
Pretty sure it was 40% off a few weeks ago.
Post by: Damiac on April 19, 2016, 12:04:15 pm
In fallout 2 at least, crits bypassed armor, so a crit with a minigun was instant death for pretty much anything. In 3, NV, and 4, crits work differently (how did crits actually work in 3 anyway?)
I did like that in fallout 2, gun damage was dictated by THE GUN AND THE BULLETS! All skill did was make you more accurate, which in turn let you get more and better crits. Which is exactly how it should work! I really hate how 3, NV, and 4 have guns doing different amounts of damage based on the skill of the user. What, do you pull the trigger extra hard when you're good at it?
I like the perk system in 4. In 3, getting a new perk was always more exciting than making some numbers a little bigger. Granularity is fine if you're actually using it, but having a 0-100 system where only the breakpoints at 25, 50, 75, and 100 matter is the same as a 0-4 system.
Post by: Sergius on April 19, 2016, 12:11:31 pm
I made a sentry robot with a minigun hand, it's pathetic against regular raiders (the ones I one-shot with my combat rifle), I'm going to have to change it to something that does single shots.
Post by: Damiac on April 19, 2016, 12:18:44 pm
An automatic weapon does fire with slightly less power, because some of the force normally used to propel the bullet is used to cycle the action, get the next bullet ready to fire, and fire it. But still, it's a goddamn bullet going at supersonic speed!
They should have had automatics do 5% less damage or so, lose 10% armor penetration, and require a higher level of gun nut than the single shot variety. So at gun nut 3, you can have the most powerful single shot receiver, and at 4, you can get the same receiver in automatic.
Still, automatics in this are better than they were in fallout 3. So... maybe by fallout 7 or so they'll be a decent weapon again.
Post by: Krevsin on April 19, 2016, 12:58:45 pm
Post by: Damiac on April 19, 2016, 03:31:10 pm
Post by: Neonivek on April 19, 2016, 03:44:01 pm
Where as the other 10 skills are pretty powerful in it of itself.
Post by: symonthewise on April 19, 2016, 04:03:50 pm
Dark Souls?
I agree non of their games have ever been stellar. But Morrowind was fun. You could own that experience via enchanting.
Since then you're just plodding down the pre-decided gameplay path Bethesda has mapped out.
Because its challenging? What do you like about it?
Post by: nenjin on April 19, 2016, 05:02:54 pm
What you collect isn't just a set of static numbers that lack any and all surprise.
What is out there constantly breaks form.
Your adventuring is mostly self-guided instead of waypoints, quests in your quest log and so forth.
And yes, the challenge. Stuff is intimidating and difficult but it's beatable if you pay attention.
Post by: Ultimuh on April 19, 2016, 05:10:43 pm
Post by: symonthewise on April 19, 2016, 08:42:01 pm
It's a lot of things.
What you collect isn't just a set of static numbers that lack any and all surprise.
What is out there constantly breaks form.
Your adventuring is mostly self-guided instead of waypoints, quests in your quest log and so forth.
And yes, the challenge. Stuff is intimidating and difficult but it's beatable if you pay attention.
Darksouls always seemed quite linear to me, not really requiring waypoints. I understand you can pick the path you want to take through the game, but its like walking around an interconnected maze more than what bethesda games try to do. I confess I don't know what you mean by things breaking forms.
Anyway, nothing against darksouls but this seems more like personal preference in style or feel of game than distinct superiority in mechanics or design.
Post by: Vendayn on April 19, 2016, 10:40:11 pm
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/4598/?
Post by: Yolan on April 20, 2016, 10:14:18 am
Wondering when this is likely to come on sale. Maybe I have quite a bit longer to wait?? Gah.Been on sale a few times now.
Pretty sure it was 40% off a few weeks ago.
40% ??? Curses.
Post by: umiman on April 22, 2016, 10:18:28 am
it's 42% off on games planet right now.Wondering when this is likely to come on sale. Maybe I have quite a bit longer to wait?? Gah.Been on sale a few times now.
Pretty sure it was 40% off a few weeks ago.
40% ??? Curses.
Post by: Ultimuh on April 22, 2016, 10:57:54 am
I'm only interested in rounded numbers.it's 42% off on games planet right now.Wondering when this is likely to come on sale. Maybe I have quite a bit longer to wait?? Gah.Been on sale a few times now.
Pretty sure it was 40% off a few weeks ago.
40% ??? Curses.
Post by: umiman on April 22, 2016, 01:47:06 pm
All the Bethesda games are on sale more or less. Pretty good deals.
Post by: Yolan on April 25, 2016, 03:24:30 am
Oh well, in my mind I'm just going to balance this out with all the stuff I bought on sale over the years.
Now a question: Recommended mods? My download of the game will be ready in a few hours so it's time I got prepared.
I was thinking of playing with Survival Mode, and going Iron Man for extra challenge. Not so interested in the story really anyway. But maybe I should be playing with some mods to make it even harder? As far as I understand it the way the game is built it is super easy to get food and drink anyway due to crafting, so maybe there are some gameplay balancing mods or restrictions I should be thinking about the purify the experience more. Anything to make it play a bit more like STALKER would be good.
Post by: scriver on April 25, 2016, 03:34:12 am
You keep letting me down, bay12!
Post by: Ultimuh on April 25, 2016, 03:45:15 am
Now a question: Recommended mods?
Well, there is the unofficial patch (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/4598/?) which is recently released (some days ago or so).
If Skyrim's Unofficial patches are anything to go by, this will be among the most important mods you download.
(It is even made by the same mod author of Skyrim's.)
Post by: Yolan on April 25, 2016, 03:49:47 am
Anything else that goes well with survival?
I was thinking of using this difficulty and realism overhaul mod: http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/5195/?
Post by: Ultimuh on April 25, 2016, 04:01:18 am
At least until you have "completed" the game at least once.
But that's just my opinion.
Post by: Yolan on April 25, 2016, 04:10:48 am
I get that, but I don't have much faith in Bethesda to deliver a play experience that does it for me. None of their vanilla games since Morrowind has. Survival mode looks good though.
Post by: Ultimuh on April 25, 2016, 04:16:42 am
Which allows you to place tents and fireplaces wherever you want.
That should, in a way, counter the "sleep to save" feature Bethesda has implemented in survival.
Though I would also recommend almost any mod,
which prevents enemies from becoming bullet sponges (But still remains deadly enough to pose a challenge.).
Post by: BFEL on April 25, 2016, 05:45:00 am
Because if this has suddenly changed I would like to know.
Post by: SOLDIER First on April 25, 2016, 05:59:12 am
Post by: BFEL on April 25, 2016, 06:11:10 am
Post by: Yolan on April 25, 2016, 06:36:28 am
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11479/?
EDIT: but apparently the latest version of Nexus Mod Manager should detect if you are using the beta automatically and make the mods work properly.
Post by: Yolan on April 25, 2016, 06:50:05 am
Here is the load out I'm going with. Hope it all works OK.
Obviously I will be playing with the beta branch survival mode. I'll probably even make it an iron man run.
1. Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch - http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/4598/?
2. Difficulty and Realism Overhaul - balances damage perks, nerfs bullet sponges and that kind of wierd stuff etc. - http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/5195/?
3. Armor and Weapon Keywords Community Resource (AWKCR) - http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/6091/?
4. Armorsmith Extended - http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/2228/?
5. Loot Overhaul - reduces the amount of loot in the world, and how much food you can get from farming - http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/1486/?
6. Spring Cleaning - lets you clean up junk around your settlements - http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/4640/?
7. True storms - better weather basically, looks cool - http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/4472/?
Thats it. I'm going for a brutal but well balanced experience, where I have to really struggle to get by. Number #2 and Number #5 combined with survival mode, should be a good challenge I'm hoping.
Post by: MarcAFK on April 25, 2016, 07:34:07 am
Also it's far too easy to make a Crapton of caps with purified water, so I'm on the lookout for a mod that'll make pumps produce dirty water, reduce the sale value and production of water, maybe make purifiers more expensive, require a fusion core or something, maybe limit it to one purifier per settlement?
Post by: Yolan on April 25, 2016, 07:52:10 am
Post by: Grim Portent on April 25, 2016, 02:48:00 pm
I'm tempted to make a few settlements into wildlife sanctuaries. Maybe turn Hangman's Alley into a ghoul nest or something.
Amusingly the first Chameleon Deathclaw I've seen was one of my Castle pets.
Post by: Ultimuh on April 25, 2016, 02:55:09 pm
Deathclaws become much less intimidating when they wander around your settlements like giant guard dogs.
Well maybe you should get a mod which MIGHT rectify that (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/10463/?).
(Just be sure to download the extra file which removes the "godzilla" roars, because they are quite distinguishable.)
Also, I am pretty sure there is a mod which makes them physically tougher and hurt you more.. I just forgot which one it is.
Post by: nenjin on April 25, 2016, 07:31:49 pm
It's a lot of things.I confess I don't know what you mean by things breaking forms.
What you collect isn't just a set of static numbers that lack any and all surprise.
What is out there constantly breaks form.
Your adventuring is mostly self-guided instead of waypoints, quests in your quest log and so forth.
And yes, the challenge. Stuff is intimidating and difficult but it's beatable if you pay attention.
Turned into a wall of text, so I'm going to spoiler.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
TLDR: I feel a game like Dark Souls is closer to older games of the 80s and 90s in terms of how hand-crafted most elements of the game are, and how it's willing to try varied things rather than always sticking to the same format. Versus a game like Fallout which is very much of the modern era and has a form and a format it sticks to that structures most if not all of gameplay. Sorry for all the blah blah but the whole idea of "breaking form" is one that's constantly on my mind as I play games these days. When I get into a fantasy and see Fire Ice and Lightning as my magic choices I just grown inwardly, loudly.
Post by: BFEL on April 26, 2016, 09:15:37 am
Here is an explanation of the method.Well it sure didn't do that for me. Back to not using survival because Bethesda without modding is worthless.
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11479/?
EDIT: but apparently the latest version of Nexus Mod Manager should detect if you are using the beta automatically and make the mods work properly.
EDIT: nvm, got it to work. WOOOOO
Post by: Teneb on April 27, 2016, 05:43:58 am
Post by: Yolan on April 28, 2016, 12:01:10 am
Maybe I'll end up restarting at some point with more modding, but so far I'm not too disappointed with the survival mode.
EDIT: Yup, they weren't on. OK, so I've updated NMM and now all the mods are working. Just deleted my saves. Buckle up kids, we are starting again! I'm going to try and see how doable Iron Man is now that I have a basic understanding of the game geography and crafting system. The biggest problem is a random run in with mercs etc., or landmines/grenades.
General Thoughts... (I'm going to focus on what I like, and skip any minor gripes).
1. Environment. Wow. They really lifted their game. You can see a whole lot of effort has gone into modelling interesting objects and into world design. Seems like a few dozen types of vehicles, and then many variations of each with different levels of damage, paint variation etc.
2. Open world. Feels much more open than fallout 3, especially in the urban areas. Makes it feel more like a Skyrim experience, which is a good thing. It didn't really sink in until I got to diamond city, but by then I was legitimately impressed with what they had done.
3. Crafting. I'm liking it. Especially compared with crafting in the Witcher III, which really felt tacked on. For one, in F4 it makes excellent lore sense. You are living in a world full of junk, so it makes sense that you are going to be hand crafting weapons and armor to try and get an edge. Having a huge range of junk objects which can be broken down into component pieces also makes the environment much more interesting. An abandoned house full of junk is now a place where you can scavenge for some of those screws you need so badly.
4. Diamond city. Well done Bethesda. Really a step up from anything in F3. It actually feels like a proper little settlement. Sure it isn't huge, but it's not broken up into pieces either, which was a problem in New Vegas. Feels just right, and the surrounding urban area really compliments it nicely.
5. NPC dialogue. Seems much more fluid mechanics wise. They really re-worked this. The game world doesn't pause , and you can even walk away mid conversation. Dialogue now feels more integrated into the world, even if the contents of that dialogue isn't great. Still, I think the quality of the voice acting has seen an improvement in general, if you can get around some anachronisms where they haven't thought too much about why somebody would have, say, an immigrant Russian accent etc.
6. Storage. Love that you can loot directly without going into a window. Really neat.
7. Survival mode. A step in the right direction. Given time, I'm fairly sure you want to rely on mods to get a good experience if you are more serious about gameplay. But with a mode like this incorporated into the game properly you have an alternative experience to just a harder difficulty level. This is what we need right from the start.
So all around, I'm really impressed. It took a while to get to this point. I was still on the fence after 12 hours playing, but 24 hours down and I'm really feeling it. It has its failings, and yet again its up to modders to really make it a great game, but the foundational world is there, and a lot of base mechanics are really nicely polished.
Post by: BFEL on April 28, 2016, 06:12:06 am
The biggest problem is a random run in with mercs etc., or landmines/grenades.You have NO fucking idea.
First time I tried survival with the stupid bed save thing I was trapped in Goodneighbor. Tried to make a beeline for the easier northern regions, but ON THE GODDAMN BRIDGE OUT OF ASSFUCKLAND WERE RANDOM GODDAMN MINES.
BFEL is STILL salty about that shit.
It has its failings, and yet again its up toFTFY :PmoddersObsidian to really make it a great game
Post by: Yolan on April 29, 2016, 06:01:32 am
Yes, no doubt that Oblivion could take this and make another great game. A fallout 4.5. But then there is something already there for them to work with. Maybe engine wise that something is outdated and would cause them a lot of grief, but still they get some good assets, they get some good mechanics.
So, I'm just starting to feel like I want to give Bethesda more credit. Honestly, I'm surprised at how positive I feel towards this game. I ended up paying full price, and I honestly don't regret it. Actually, I'm even kind of happy that I supported the game more, which I can't really say I thought about Skyrim.
Yes the way all the stats have been replaced with a perk cheat feels way too simplistic for those of us with RPG backgrounds. But the counter argument that they have managed to purify what is there and streamline it isn't entirely without merit. I have a mod installed which nerfs some of the insane weapon damage boosts you get from perks, as well as upping the requirements of some perks (want to make your own drugs? then you need to be bloody smart). But this is a tweaking of numbers, with the basic system remaining the same. And it feels fine. I'm totally OK with it. I wouldn't mind trying Wasteland II some time and having a different experience that is closer to the original Fallouts, but I don't see what Bethesda is doing as -just- a bastardization. Simplification can be good too.
Post by: Flying Dice on April 29, 2016, 07:01:51 am
Yes the way all the stats have been replaced with a perk cheat feels way too simplistic for those of us with RPG backgrounds.[citation needed]
"RPG" still doesn't translate to "statblock the length of a city block", at least not in my book. A game isn't qualified or disqualified as an RPG based on the quantity of numbers you have.
I like the system they went with in FO4 because it allows the player to make meaningful crunch-side choices in character development instead of giving them the appearance of the same, and I don't feel particularly obliged to qualify it as "I know it's not really an RPG, buuuut..."
Let's look at a couple classic RPGs and their sets of stats and skills:
FF VI: Lv + HP + MP; Strength + Speed + Stamina + Magic + Attack + Defense + Evasion + Magic Defense + Magic Evasion + Escape Success. Exactly the same as FO4 (core health, power, experience measure plus seven key ability scores, the only difference is the need to account for the difference between physical and magical damage types and the battle escape mechanic). No "skills" as such beyond class-specific moves and abilities... which are pretty closely aligned with the feat system, actually.
Pokemon Gen I: HP + Lv + Attack + Defense + Special + Speed + Evasion + Accuracy. Only two core stats and four ability scores, plus two in-battle stats that didn't change with experience gain or level up. Likewise, only four "skills" in the sense that you have each 'mon's moveset, and they don't change or improve individually.
Hell, the Ultima games generally just had the core HP + MP + Lv plus three gorram ability scores, and (remembering UO in particular here) skill gain that wasn't tied to exp gain or level up, and total skill points was hard-capped well below what you needed to max everything.
So please, try to tell me that classic RPGs are all about distributing a fuckjillion points whenever your experience meter ticks over and having more skills than you know what to do with.
Post by: JacobVR on April 29, 2016, 08:51:41 am
Post by: umiman on April 29, 2016, 09:21:38 am
Bethesda, for god's sake, get a new engine :D ;) :)Alright, I'll get right on it.
Post by: Damiac on April 29, 2016, 02:34:51 pm
They overwrote the old survival difficulty instead of making a new one. Why? I cannot imagine why they would do this, because some people are actually playing on survival difficulty already, suddenly they get a mandatory patch that changes that difficulty completely. There is just no reasonable purpose to this. The new survival is a new difficulty, why on earth wouldn't you make it a new, separate thing?
They wrote the code for all these cool new survival features, then said "And if you want to use them, you have to play ultra hard mode, and play beddy bye time every time you see a bed. Why the hell wouldn't they make them options. They already have fucking checkboxes to disable autosave, quicksave, etc. It's already there, all they had to do was enable it, and they didn't, because they want to force people to play it their way?!?
Of course, I just installed the super easy to use save anywhere mod, and now when I have to do something in real life, I don't have to go bed hunting or lose lots of progress. But why on earth should I have to install a mod to do this? The feedback forums showed the entire time the beta was going on a large majority wanted these features. Most people didn't want to play sleepy time simulator, and some people did. Checkboxes have existed for longer than I have, they aren't hard...
It's just baffling how bethesda can create a cool new feature, start a beta, asking for feedback, get tons of feedback over a couple issues, and completely ignore it. Were they just paying attention to the couple people repeatedly saying "Nah, nobody really cares, just git good"?
I mean... I'm enjoying the new mode, because luckily people are willing to fix their incredibly stupid oversights in their spare time for free. But... why? It's just so mind numbingly stupid...
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on April 29, 2016, 02:40:22 pm
Yes the way all the stats have been replaced with a perk cheat feels way too simplistic for those of us with RPG backgrounds.
I like the system they went with in FO4 because it allows the player to make meaningful crunch-side choices in character development instead of giving them the appearance of the same, and I don't feel particularly obliged to qualify it as "I know it's not really an RPG, buuuut..."
Let's look at a couple classic RPGs and their sets of stats and skills:
Did any of those games have actual changes in gameplay or story if you had different skills like in Fallout? Could you get out of combat with Locke's stats by talking down encounters or using your pokemon's stats to talk N or Giovanni down? Different RPGs matter for different blokes, what matters is that the changes to Fallout 4 were something that people thought made it worse as a result because they just turned skillpoints into perk points instead and made skills matter even less towards actually changing or doing anything in the environment like you could before. Far less skill checks for using explosives or talking people down and ended up making nearly everything need to be killed to matter.
Different people have different idea's what classic RPGs are. Some prefer that PnP style RPGs are the true classic rather then something more modern like FF6, doesn't make anything less valid to me.
Post by: MarcAFK on April 29, 2016, 06:42:50 pm
Post by: XhAPPYSLApX on April 30, 2016, 01:58:21 pm
Tell me what you think of em if you download it :D
Post by: Flying Dice on April 30, 2016, 03:47:38 pm
Yes the way all the stats have been replaced with a perk cheat feels way too simplistic for those of us with RPG backgrounds.
I like the system they went with in FO4 because it allows the player to make meaningful crunch-side choices in character development instead of giving them the appearance of the same, and I don't feel particularly obliged to qualify it as "I know it's not really an RPG, buuuut..."
Let's look at a couple classic RPGs and their sets of stats and skills:
Did any of those games have actual changes in gameplay or story if you had different skills like in Fallout? Could you get out of combat with Locke's stats by talking down encounters or using your pokemon's stats to talk N or Giovanni down? Different RPGs matter for different blokes, what matters is that the changes to Fallout 4 were something that people thought made it worse as a result because they just turned skillpoints into perk points instead and made skills matter even less towards actually changing or doing anything in the environment like you could before. Far less skill checks for using explosives or talking people down and ended up making nearly everything need to be killed to matter.
Different people have different idea's what classic RPGs are. Some prefer that PnP style RPGs are the true classic rather then something more modern like FF6, doesn't make anything less valid to me.
One would assume that a discussion about RPGs in the thread for a RPG video game would default to video game RPGs when someone says "RPG". Or are we talking about LARP RPGs instead? It's also sort of funny that you're talking about classic tabletop RPGs as if they were bastions of player choice and meaningful skill selection rather than wargames modified to orient around single characters instead of armies, with a handful of good choices and a bunch of shit ones, and no viable approach to most situations beyond combat, both because of the system and because of how GMs typically set things up. And then you talk in the same breath about talking down encounters. ::)
And let's be honest, the skills in FO3 were no more meaningful. The only difference is the incrementation, instead of single-digit percentage changes to damage and healing you've got fewer double-digit percentage changes to damage and healing. You're also ignoring the fact that a lot of the ability scores and their respective feats allow for gameplay options that simply didn't exist, and the flattening of their value means that there's less of an optimal build path and more "choose what you want".
As long as Bethesda is sticking with the combat RPG approach, this sort of system is better. Skill-heavy systems work primarily for RPGs which don't have the capacity to account for types of player skill beyond ability to min-max.
Actually, I'm curious. What classic RPG video games are you thinking of when you talk about ones with a bunch of skills where choosing your point allocations actually matters? Because there's a fundamental disconnect between "a shitload of different things to increase" and "impactful choices"-the more options you have, and the higher the granularity of those options, the lower the impact of any single decision. And when a game is like FO3/NV/4 and the meaningful changes only occur at milestone levels, there's no reason to even bother with that sort of granularity, since points allocated between milestones are functionally irrelevant. Nobody actually thinks, "Gee, those five points in Energy Weapons sure are making a difference! And the four points in Lockpicking that got me to 73 are definitely coming in handy," because the changes range from incredibly small to nonexistent.
It's different for RPGs that don't operate on player skill, because a 3% difference in damage is something you'll actually notice in practice, because it's the only change or improvement you'll see.
--
it begins (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/12511/?)
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on May 01, 2016, 04:36:31 am
Quote
It's also sort of funny that you're talking about classic tabletop RPGs as if they were bastions of player choice and meaningful skill selection rather than wargames modified to orient around single characters instead of armies, with a handful of good choices and a bunch of shit ones, and no viable approach to most situations beyond combat, both because of the system and because of how GMs typically set things up. And then you talk in the same breath about talking down encounters.
I don't know what sort of GM's you play with, but there tends to be quite a few ways of getting around combat so long as the GM actually knows what he's doing, rather then just setting up combat after combat.. Not to mention it sounds like you are basing your ideals of such on just DnD, when there's a large expansive market that's been around from the same age.
Quote
Actually, I'm curious. What classic RPG video games are you thinking of when you talk about ones with a bunch of skills where choosing your point allocations actually matters? Because there's a fundamental disconnect between "a shitload of different things to increase" and "impactful choices"-the more options you have, and the higher the granularity of those options, the lower the impact of any single decision. And when a game is like FO3/NV/4 and the meaningful changes only occur at milestone levels, there's no reason to even bother with that sort of granularity, since points allocated between milestones are functionally irrelevant. Nobody actually thinks, "Gee, those five points in Energy Weapons sure are making a difference! And the four points in Lockpicking that got me to 73 are definitely coming in handy," because the changes range from incredibly small to nonexistent.
Aside from the finicky nature of some skills (Yeah not gonna argue that some skills requiring 25 is a bit daft), it sounds like you've missed my point when it came to the stats because I wasn't talking about the combat part of the skills at all. Fallout 4 removed many of the skill based checks that I enjoyed in the previous fallout, such as the ability to recruit a character from the former game (Cass) required a few. Such as bartering with her to pay her off, speech to convince her to come with you, or deal with her in an endurance contest with whisky as each ability required various strengths because the options made it easier or harder based on the situation at hand.
I don't know if it was a problem with the voiced dialogue but it seemed like much of my charisma checks ended up just getting me more caps then anything else, along with the fact that it seemed you were default good no matter the situation with very few moments of being able to choose for yourself. Of course it might not have been a problem with the system in place, but the bad writing of it does tend to make one's view of a new thing poorer.
Maybe the system will be superior later and with Fallout 4 it's just a poor showing, and come the first real expansions we will see that one can do much better with the system in place, at least that's my hope.
Post by: Krevsin on May 01, 2016, 08:25:58 am
Post by: BFEL on May 01, 2016, 12:21:08 pm
I don't think that's really a problem inherent in the system itself but more a function of how the game is designed. I see no reason why the system in place could not have skill/stat checks in place.This is a thing I said earlier.
I SAID IT FIRST SO I GET CREDIT FOR THE IDEA! :P
Post by: Krevsin on May 01, 2016, 02:32:15 pm
Post by: Teneb on May 01, 2016, 03:03:59 pm
(and who did not subsequently devolve into a frothing pile of rage over how shitty modern RPGs are)Oh boy. Are we doing this?
Post by: Glloyd on May 01, 2016, 03:09:35 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on May 01, 2016, 03:10:41 pm
I don't think Krevsin was claiming a complete lack of good RPGs :P
But that's a good point. Fallout 4 is barely a RPG compared to Dark Souls or the Witcher.
And FlyingDice, I think you overestimate how important the optimal route was in other Fallouts. They didn't demand optimal play. Whereas Fallout 4 doesn't offer alternatives. I feel like I could beat Fallout 4 without applying perks at all, because every perk has been incredibly disappointing. Especially if you allow me the "Bonus damage to the weapon type you use!" perks, which are absurdly unimaginative. And if you allow the crafting perks, it's a no brainer - every other perk is crap. Seriously.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on May 01, 2016, 03:25:38 pm
Especially if you allow me the "Bonus damage to the weapon type you use!" perks, which are absurdly unimaginative.
Certainly the original fallouts never had (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Bonus_Ranged_Damage) such (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Pyromaniac) tripe (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Bonus_HtH_Damage)!
Post by: Rolan7 on May 01, 2016, 03:34:10 pm
No (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Commando) no (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Gunslinger), you did it wrong :PEspecially if you allow me the "Bonus damage to the weapon type you use!" perks, which are absurdly unimaginative.
Certainly the original fallouts never had (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Bonus_Ranged_Damage) such (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Pyromaniac) tripe (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Bonus_HtH_Damage)!
Not my point! Perks existed which simply boosted certain weapon types. But in Fallout 4 they are by far the most important perks... and they're *tiered* to offer more false choice.
The perks which don't increase weapon damage are ass in FO4, and that is not true in other Fallout games. Which had more imaginative combat-boosting perks *also*.
Post by: nenjin on May 01, 2016, 03:45:38 pm
Which...I dunno. Either everything is so easy you can kill it with every gun at the same level of difficulty and any weapon perks you take completely trivialize things.....or you get what we have now. In that sense perks function just like a Sword Skill or Automatic Rifle Skill, it's just that the levels are highly truncated so it doesn't feel like a skill. If the Rifle or SMG or Pistol perks had 10 levels of gently increasing bonuses, they'd be "skills" through and through. Instead you get these massive 10%/25%/40% jumps in effectiveness in keeping with the current idea about what a "Perk" is. It's the same story with damage mitigation, carry weight, healing value, ammo drops, settlements, modding and so on. You basically end up getting to decide where your pain points are going to be in gameplay until remove the pain through perks and stop devouring consumables to make up the difference (ammo, drugs, stimpacks, rad-away, caps, so on and so forth.) I suspect most people end up with the same basic set of perks and there are only a few real tradeoffs (i.e., increased health or damage resistance but you probably can't get away without either after some point.)
Eventually you hit this median effectiveness in all things where everything "works", some things just slay absurdly well or trivialize the game and you're sitting on a mountain of stuff you don't use in this post-apocalyptic world of scare resources.
And to be fair, Bethesda has tried it the other way in FO3, where perks unlock after putting X points into skills which marginally affect the trait they govern (i.e, the combat traits by and large.) It didn't turn out much better either. I remember investing in skills strictly so I could unlock perks and then feeling underwhelmed by perks.
None of this is truly new. It was more or less the same in Skyrim. You had this perk nodes that would radically increase effectiveness in your bread and butter activities (combat, stealth) and you'd actively fight getting them until the enemy scaling required it. The difference in Skyrim was there were upgrade pathways and in some cases you HAD to take these boring "difficulty equalizer" perks to get to the stuff that was even mildly interesting. So it'd seem they learned from that with FO4. Perk trees that are also your player scaling mechanism are dumb, because when your game is consistently too damn easy without everything becoming a bullet sponge, forcing people to outclass the content they're dealing with makes them waste time micormanaging YOUR mechanics instead of enjoying them. Bethesda games are one of the few games where I have to actively stop the game from making everything boringly easy for me.
I wish they'd embraced "learn by doing" like in ES games. Let us skill up stuff by actually doing things (instead of just one day deciding we do 25% more damage with a gun we haven't unholesterd in 30 hours) and make unlocking perks part of that process. And quit tying the level scaling to these things that are supposedly are side-benefits rather than the core of the advancement system.
Meanwhile all the "RP" parts of RPGs still get short shrift, dealt with in the same systemized way combat is. Charisma and most things associated with it are still pretty much uninteresting or relegated to "you want that optional quest pathway? Got the Charisma to make the special dialog option?" and fiddling with prices at vendors. Which is the same kind of static, repetitive stuff that just further throws off game balance. (Yes, I carry a suit and tie with me everywhere so I can ekk out that ~8% increased caps when selling. Cause I sure as shit don't ever buy anything. Multiply that by every vendor I meet and every piece of crap I sell and money is no object. I just arbitrarily decide to drop 18k caps on a legendary I don't need and probably won't use.) Doing things like being able to get a random enemy to put their weapon down doesn't really fulfill the idea of roleplaying. You should be able to have a chance to get almost ANY enemy or quest figure in the game to put their gun down if you invested enough into doing so.
Post by: Grim Portent on May 01, 2016, 04:51:48 pm
The only fights I ever struggled with were the battles against the Brotherhood, a few early ones against Ghouls in Cambridge, the Mechanists lair fight, and once against the Super Mutants at that satellite array when there were two legendaries and that blasted rocket launcher guy. Wound up running out of fusion cores and had to get out of my armour towards the end.
Really I feel the most fun perks are the ones like Pain Train, because who doesn't want to ram people and send them flying? Cannibals a fun one to me as well because I love to omnomnom, always took it in FO3 and FNV as well.
Learn by doing in ES had a lot of problems. The major one was that since enemies scale with your level it meant leveling skills in the wrong orders could result in you facing minotaurs while you still had a combat skill level of 20 but an alchemy of 100, and it made it nearly impossible to level up combat skills you had neglected in the beginning of the game. Trying to level blunt or heavy armour as a thief character was incredibly hard since you were basically starting at rock bottom with them while fighting end game enemies unless you leveled the before your main skills.
Post by: nenjin on May 01, 2016, 05:00:25 pm
Also GG on getting through it all with no weapon perks. I don't think I'd have the patience. Even after weapon modding damage flattens out while they keep scalin' away.
Post by: Grim Portent on May 01, 2016, 05:13:51 pm
For some reason my preferred play style in FO4 has been very different from FO3, FNV and the ES games. I used to favour near pure stealth builds, with a smattering of power armour tanky builds in FNV (in FO3 it was too annoying to rush the main game to get power armour), but even they tended to have lots of points in stealth and a few stealth perks. In FO4 though I spend nearly all my time in power armour bullrushing enemies or mowing them down with heavy weapons or machine guns.
I've also started to feel crippled whenever I don't have my jet pack.
Post by: nenjin on May 01, 2016, 06:25:21 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on May 01, 2016, 07:00:00 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on May 01, 2016, 10:03:05 pm
Post by: Krevsin on May 01, 2016, 11:55:34 pm
Kindest sir/madam/internet person, I was in fact making a joke.(and who did not subsequently devolve into a frothing pile of rage over how shitty modern RPGs are)Oh boy. Are we doing this?DudePerson of indeterminate gender, what about Dark Souls? Or Witcher? The new Shadowrun games?
Post by: Mech#4 on May 02, 2016, 12:19:42 am
Post by: BFEL on May 02, 2016, 02:18:09 am
Learn by doing in ES had a lot of problems.
The problem *I* always had with it is that you can learn maybe 4 skills by just doing them, but everything else you have to create elaborate, grindy scenarios to train. Combat and magic skills are ALWAYS in the latter mind you, so basically the game is entirely based around combat, but good luck gettin gud at that!
I mean, spend entire game stabbing things? Never see lvl 50 skill. Look at a alchemy stand a little too long? CONGRATULATIONS! YOU HAVE LEVEL 100 ALCHEMY!
Come to think of it, a case could be made for the weapon skills not representing your skill but "percentage of worlds total population you have stabbed" with how slow it fucking levels.
Post by: Damiac on May 02, 2016, 10:39:49 am
The problem is, even if the devs intend you to naturally make your character good at the things you do with them, they have to assign certain weights to certain actions for each skill. If 1 sneak action were as good at increasing sneak as 1 jumping action is at increasing acrobatics, either sneak is going to level way too slow, or acrobatics will level too fast.
You also run into the issue as a player that you want to be good at certain things. You can play naturally, and hope it happens (lets not even get into all the level scaling problems that happen when blacksmithing improves faster than sword skill), or you do what every good RPG player has done since this system was invented, and grind the hell out of that skill. Casting destruction spells into the sky, purposely wielding a shitty weapon to get lots and lots of hits in on weak enemies, etc.
Here's the problem with that: It's not fun. Going out, wiping out a bandit nest, levelling up, and choosing to spend my level up points on sword fighting is fun. Going out, making sure to NOT use my destruction or restoration spells, because their level is already too high, and using my rusty short sword of shittiness to improve my sword fighting isn't fun. The learn by doing model gets in the way of fun.
Another example would be dungeon crawl. Once upon a time, it had a learn by doing model. So after each kill, players would cast spells over and over, or wield a crappy weapon and beat on weak enemies, to get their desired skills to use the built up XP. It was called victory dancing, and was pretty widely hated.
Now, dungeon crawl uses an allocated skill model. It's essentially a point buy system, except you decide ahead of time where the points you get will go, and you get points from every kill, rather than on level-up. It's much more well liked, and allows the player to just play the damn game.
Learn by doing is realistic, and getting good at skills in real life is boring, repetitive practice. Point buy is a decent approximation of training, but with the negative gameplay aspects stripped away. In the game, I kill everything however I want. When I level up, I decide I was thinking about swordfighting that whole time, so I train that. In one model, I spent my time playing the game in the most fun way possible. In the other, I spent my time playing the game in the way that would train my desired skills, instead of trying to most effectively complete my goal. So which is really more realistic? Would an adventurer really take dangerous risks to get a little more sword practice, or would they just kill their enemies as efficiently as possible?
Post by: nenjin on May 02, 2016, 10:50:40 am
It's only bad when the system is so broken it requires that stuff to win or even compete. (Like Oblivion where you had to be careful NOT to overlevel because they introduced your core character level as the the scaling mechanism.)
Post by: Rolan7 on May 02, 2016, 11:35:00 am
If players want to wreck their own experience, more power to them. That doesn't make the system itself bad because players are unimaginative, lazy and mechanically greedy (gotta level them all!)They don't have to be greedily levelling alllll the thiiiiings in order for it to be grindy. Last time I tried to make a new Skyrim character, I wanted to be a thief. So I needed to train sneak. It's not practical to do this by sneaking in important situations: You get detected immediately and learn almost nothing. You practically have to crouchwalk around town for a couple hours, ducking behind cover every time the non-hostile NPCs detect you.
Sure it makes some roleplaying sense, but it's not a fun mechanic except maybe once.
It's even worse for weapon skills...
It's only bad when the system is so broken it requires that stuff to win or even compete. (Like Oblivion where you had to be careful NOT to overlevel because they introduced your core character level as the the scaling mechanism.)But, this is true of Fallout 4 (and 3, and NV, and Skyrim).
The arguable problem with Oblivion's level system was it was really easy to *permanently* screw your stats through inefficient leveling. But all those games are happy to let you level up with non-combat skills. It can still be painful when you get to train your skills on levelup, but it really hurts with learn-by-doing.
http://imgur.com/gallery/8M1cj3Q
Of course in Oblivion (and Skyrim I think) you can just turn down the difficulty slider...
Post by: nenjin on May 02, 2016, 11:37:27 am
I've wanted Bethesda to ditch level scaling or at least try to do it in a way that doesn't suck since Oblivion. I'm still waiting. But in a game without level scaling or with a lot less level scaling, where wolves don't suddenly become as tough to kill as bears and bandits are supporting ancient legendary armor, I don't see the problem with learning by doing. And Skyrim even balances it out by making you skill up faster against tougher guys. I've only ever played Stealth characters and I've never had to sneak around the tavern in broad daylight to level of my skills. Rather I had to _Not_ buy any of the stealth perks so stealth actually worked in an interesting way instead of just becoming an invisibility cloak.
Post by: Sergius on May 02, 2016, 11:40:22 am
At least that's how I remember it.
Post by: Sensei on May 02, 2016, 12:56:16 pm
Of course, they screwed that one up too my making it possible to level up "wrong", if you leveled the wrong skills, or in the wrong order, you wouldn't be able to increase your attributes enough and level scaling could get the better of you. At least now, mods help with that.
Post by: Damiac on May 02, 2016, 01:57:59 pm
Even outside of level scaling situations, look at stuff like unreal world, or cataclysm DDA. Want to be good at throwing? Throw rocks at a building! That's fun for nobody, so why does the game reward it? But you'll be more effective if you do this boring thing, so from a problem solving perspective, you should do the boring thing.
Games are generally two things. They are puzzles to be solved, and they are entertainment. If the puzzle is too easy, the entertainment can be lost. If the puzzle isn't fun to solve, the entertainment is lost. Part of the puzzle of RPGs is how to make your character the best you can. If you add to your character by doing fun things with them, that's a fun puzzle to solve. If you add to your character separately from doing fun things with them, it's not a fun puzzle to solve. You find yourself trading effectiveness for entertainment, sure, you could be better at destruction magic, but who wants to shoot weak fireballs into the sky for 20 real life minutes?
This gets into the territory of earning your fun, a mindset most often seen in MMOs. Put in the "work" of grinding, then reap the "reward" of doing fun stuff with a good character. A good game should be entertaining at all times, at least in my opinion.
Fable's system was decent, but I still found myself playing to get the specific points I wanted, rather than just mixing up melee, ranged, and magic and using each where it was the most effective option. Still, it worked pretty well, but I think it would have been even better with just a straight point buy system.
Post by: Grim Portent on May 02, 2016, 02:22:21 pm
Post by: Vendayn on May 02, 2016, 02:57:48 pm
You either did it at level 1, without leveling up AT ALL. And pwn everything you meet
Wait till your a higher level, and then get pwned in main quest
At least speaking of vanilla without mods, that is how it worked.
Post by: nenjin on May 02, 2016, 03:14:02 pm
Another example of learn by doing resulting in a lot of tedium is in Dwarf Fortress amusingly enough. I'm sure most of use are aware of the Adventure Mode practices of crab wrestling and throwing dirt at buildings until you're able to dodge arrows and snipe people with thrown pikes in the eye.
Does it result in a lot of tedium, or make self-inflicted tedium possible? Because there is a difference.
Post by: Grim Portent on May 02, 2016, 04:17:48 pm
Another example of learn by doing resulting in a lot of tedium is in Dwarf Fortress amusingly enough. I'm sure most of use are aware of the Adventure Mode practices of crab wrestling and throwing dirt at buildings until you're able to dodge arrows and snipe people with thrown pikes in the eye.
Does it result in a lot of tedium, or make self-inflicted tedium possible? Because there is a difference.
The games difficulty, permanent injuries and the frequency of being outnumbered encourage making your character as powerful as possible before their first real fight. Since there are no low risk enemies to train on since even a sheep can kick your skull in or tear your throat out this means you have to grind in boring menial ways or die quickly.
Probably 1 in 20 characters will survive their first battle with bandits, if even that many, and many of them will die to something like bogeymen shortly after unless they're significantly above the average for warriors or doing the old fashioned throw pointy rocks from the bushes while sneaking method, which is fundamentally the same as the throw dirt at the wall training method, just with a more dangerous wall.
Granted death and injury being highly likely is an intended function of the games mechanics, but it does more or less invalidate say, grabbing the first shield you find and going toe to toe with your enemies like a knight on foot unless you either want a shortsword lobotomy or intend to grind on crabs first.
Post by: nenjin on May 02, 2016, 05:44:36 pm
Now if you roll up a peasant then complain because you're getting your shit tossed and go wrestle sheep to make up the diff.....that's its own thing.
Post by: Grim Portent on May 02, 2016, 07:31:36 pm
Never really had an issue playing Heroes and speccing them to the kind of fights I wanted to have.
Now if you roll up a peasant then complain because you're getting your shit tossed and go wrestle sheep to make up the diff.....that's its own thing.
I usually found even demigods got their heads kicked in after a few bandits got killed due to numbers or exhaustion. Only times I survived much was when I pelted random stuff at them from the edges of vision range until they keeled over, then crept forward to grab more armour/weapons to throw at the rest.
Post by: nenjin on May 02, 2016, 07:38:00 pm
Post by: Krevsin on May 04, 2016, 10:49:46 am
Post by: umiman on May 04, 2016, 11:08:26 am
Far Harbor trailer is out (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0wSCFBJcSs).That's one of those trailers that spoils everything.
Post by: Ultimuh on May 04, 2016, 11:23:00 am
Thanks for the heads-up.Far Harbor trailer is out (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0wSCFBJcSs).That's one of those trailers that spoils everything.
I somehow knew avoiding that trailer would be wise.
Post by: BigD145 on May 04, 2016, 11:39:23 am
Post by: umiman on May 04, 2016, 01:45:09 pm
I wish I could go back in time and not watch it. Also go back in time and avoid some of the spoilers for this game in this thread. I'm still extremely pissed off at MrWiggles for spoiling the entire game. Fuck you MrWiggles. Fuck you with a rake.Thanks for the heads-up.Far Harbor trailer is out (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0wSCFBJcSs).That's one of those trailers that spoils everything.
I somehow knew avoiding that trailer would be wise.
And don't give me any lip about how "oh it's so obvious" and "anyone could have seen it coming". Yeah, this may not be Game of Thrones but some of us still have expectations about the story. You fucking ruined the entire game and I hate you eternally.
Post by: Ultimuh on May 04, 2016, 02:12:35 pm
I wish I could go back in time and not watch it. Also go back in time and avoid some of the spoilers for this game in this thread. I'm still extremely pissed off at MrWiggles for spoiling the entire game. Fuck you MrWiggles. Fuck you with a rake.(http://i.imgur.com/CHyWk.png)
And don't give me any lip about how "oh it's so obvious" and "anyone could have seen it coming". Yeah, this may not be Game of Thrones but some of us still have expectations about the story. You fucking ruined the entire game and I hate you eternally.
/me slowly backs out of this thread.
Post by: umiman on May 04, 2016, 02:39:48 pm
At that point I was only halfway through the game.
Post by: Ultimuh on May 04, 2016, 02:42:12 pm
He did this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=151150.msg6795335;topicseen#msg6795335). Don't click if you don't want spoilers.
At that point I only halfway through the game.
Already been there and done that.
But yeah, that was a very big mistake by him. However unintentional it might have been.
Post by: Neonivek on May 04, 2016, 03:10:34 pm
Post by: scriver on May 04, 2016, 04:54:25 pm
Post by: Glloyd on May 04, 2016, 06:13:28 pm
Post by: umiman on May 04, 2016, 06:18:25 pm
Yeah, seemed just like a standard trailer. Not sure exactly what you think it spoiled...Edit: I just noticed the description.
Quote
Travel off the coast of Maine to the mysterious island of Far Harbor, where higher levels of radiation have created a more feral world. Navigate through the growing conflict between the synths, the Children of Atom, and the local townspeople. Will you work towards bringing peace to Far Harbor, and at what cost?
I thought the DLC was just about helping Valentine do a case, not be about that. So I thought the video simply revealed everything about the case (hint: the guy that shows up at the end). But instead it's talking about the three things up there. So I guess it's not spoilery after all. My bad.
Post by: NullForceOmega on May 04, 2016, 06:20:32 pm
Post by: Ultimuh on May 04, 2016, 06:21:22 pm
I'll just wait until the DLC is released, just to be on the safe side. :vYeah, seemed just like a standard trailer. Not sure exactly what you think it spoiled...Is giving away the twists and the big secret bad not a spoiler to people these days? If so I apologize and feel free to watch it.
Post by: umiman on May 04, 2016, 06:23:40 pm
Are you certain it did in fact tell us anything we wouldn't become aware of within minutes of starting the quest anyway? How are you certain? What methodology did you utilize to confirm that they have, in fact, revealed plot-crucial information?Sorry, see above.
Post by: JimboM12 on May 04, 2016, 11:14:01 pm
Post by: Neonivek on May 04, 2016, 11:27:33 pm
Are you certain it did in fact tell us anything we wouldn't become aware of within minutes of starting the quest anyway? How are you certain? What methodology did you utilize to confirm that they have, in fact, revealed plot-crucial information?
I dunno... being really good at guessing seems to warrant spoilers on Bay12 :P
Post by: Sergius on May 05, 2016, 09:07:22 am
Fallout 4: Spoilers. Spoilers never change.
Only this time, the spoilers of war were also its weapons...
And if your the Fallout 4 protagonist... Everything needs to be spoilered :P because everything flies by your head.
Nothing flies by my protagonist's head. His reflexes are too fast, he would catch it.
Post by: Yolan on May 05, 2016, 09:18:36 am
My current character is named Furiosa. Got a laugh when the robot actually said my name at the start. Didn't expect them to have recorded that one, but they had. I guess it would have been an obvious choice after Mad Max Fury Road.
On top of playing survival, modded to be even harder, I am playing semi-iron man. I play with the understanding that dead pretty much means dead. So I don't get into fights that I can't finish.
To balance tension against frustration I have a few ground rules instead of just "any death means end of game".
If I knowingly choose to fight some people who I have the jump on, like a group of super mutants or some raiders, and they then kill me... game over. Exception might be if they kill me in some really lame manner. Maybe I've got them outgunned and they get a fluke shot in and I feel it's really unfair. In that case it just counts as an injury. But if I go commando on a superior force and end up in chunky pieces, then game over.
If I get randomly killed by somebody I never saw who had a rocket launcher, or I step on a mine like an idiot etc., counts as an injury. Same goes for deaths that don't turn me into a pulp involving something lame like a ghoul or a dog, where I can at least come up with some RPish excuse that I was rescued etc. I can't abuse this loophole though to risk my life in an unreasonable manner. If I have a doubt, I generally play it safe.
If injured, I add a scar to my face at the doctors. So far this has happened once. It's not very visible though with my Furiosa style war paint on though. If I can survive in the wastes without any proper death then over time I think my scar count might get pretty high. Should look good. On the other hand if my faces ends up a mass of scars that would suck. So that should help keep me honest and cautious.
I've made it to level 10 so far. Being stealthy, having good perception, and avoiding most serious fights. I've killed about 8 humans, not counting ghouls. My dog has saved my life a couple of times. One very close call with a rad scorpion. Much more tension than with my last player, where I was just dying, loading, dying, loading, pushing through quests. Now I haven't even done the first Concord fight. Walk in there and fight six or seven armed men by myself? No bloody way. Maybe when I'm closer to level 20 and have modded my assault rifle and power armor some more.
Few screen shots...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: BFEL on May 05, 2016, 10:39:26 am
It seems to literally make you immune to explosions. Or at least it lowers it enough that a 300ish DR can bring it down to nothing. Should cut down on the "lol rocket launcher instagibs" that you have to endure.
Note that it ALSO works against MINI NUKES. Which is silly, but hilarious nonetheless.
Post by: Yolan on May 05, 2016, 10:54:32 am
Post by: Damiac on May 05, 2016, 11:41:08 am
I do wish the respawning was a little faster, or there were more wandering enemies, because I've really cleared out the outdoor areas around Diamond City and the surrounding locales, so it gets a little tedious walking between quest areas. I suppose if it starts to annoy me enough I'll just get another mod to fix it and invent some house rules to make it not too silly. Why can't we just have morrowind style fast travel for hire? Or ideally, fast travel where you can get interrupted and thrown into combat on the way.
My character is level 30, running around with the two shot combat rifle from
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I also have a nice decked out combat shotgun with a silencer, good for clearing interiors semi-stealthily. Early on I realized that in survival mode, you want to always have a shotgun, because they help so much against the fast bugs and ghouls that kill you so fast early on. Too bad shells are so heavy...
I'm actually considering taking strong back, which I've never done before, but carry weight is at a premium now. It's not like I'm going to stop hoarding or something crazy...
Post by: Yolan on May 05, 2016, 12:31:32 pm
Nearly died just earlier to a bunch of those giant mosquitoes near the lake house. Sprinted away like hell while my poor dog got left behind.
Thankfully I've got a bunch of settlers now who I can "trade" with for their ammo. I have an improved settler mod which means they often come with a little bit of decent gear. Trading for ammo is really a challenge right now, as my starting build has such low charisma that I pay through the nose for everything. A bar of gold worth 450 sells for 80, which gets me a handful of bullets... ><
Post by: Vendayn on May 05, 2016, 01:26:39 pm
But I will say
Did one play through with brotherhood of steel. One with the institute.
Never will I do institute again :P Back to BOS I go!
But probably gonna wait for all the DLC and mods to come out for FO4 before I play again. Already did two play throughs of vanilla, don't feel like doing a third. Didn't do ALL the stuff, but I did a lot.
Post by: RexMundi on May 05, 2016, 06:34:56 pm
Post by: Yolan on May 05, 2016, 10:02:16 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on May 05, 2016, 11:48:14 pm
Post by: Glloyd on May 06, 2016, 12:23:17 am
I would, but I've sworn to never play a Bethesda RPG without total save control.
There's mods for that.
Post by: MrWiggles on May 06, 2016, 06:11:51 am
XDI wish I could go back in time and not watch it. Also go back in time and avoid some of the spoilers for this game in this thread. I'm still extremely pissed off at MrWiggles for spoiling the entire game. Fuck you MrWiggles. Fuck you with a rake.Thanks for the heads-up.Far Harbor trailer is out (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0wSCFBJcSs).That's one of those trailers that spoils everything.
I somehow knew avoiding that trailer would be wise.
And don't give me any lip about how "oh it's so obvious" and "anyone could have seen it coming". Yeah, this may not be Game of Thrones but some of us still have expectations about the story. You fucking ruined the entire game and I hate you eternally.
Beside me fucking up the hiding thing. I cant get behind how someone enjoyment is so fragile. Especially by something that the game doesnt even present to you directly. All those hours running around, exploring, picking up scrap, shooting stuff, shooting more stuff, customizing the thing to go shoot stuff. Wait, can't. Not anymore, a optional side information thats hidden was revealed. Cant shoot and collect scrap anymore. The big thing, is the twist done with the kid itself, and how that relates to the story. The story elements with the campaigns, with Mr. Brotherhood of Steel. But no, so freakishly fragile that optional hidden information is so damaging. I dont get it. In my play through I didnt discover that information about shaun. Read it somewhere. Read the actual big twist though way before I got to the institute though. Still went on shooting, exploring, collecting stuff for a long while. Even watched most of the follower alternate dialogue sequences, before I met the follower. Its something thats truely lost on me.
Post by: Damiac on May 06, 2016, 08:45:50 am
And it was clearly accidental, so I don't think any rake related abuse is warranted... I wouldn't take it personally wiggles...
Post by: BFEL on May 06, 2016, 08:46:16 am
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11542/?I would, but I've sworn to never play a Bethesda RPG without total save control.
There's mods for that.
Here you go.
Makes it really funsies.
Post by: Yoink on May 06, 2016, 08:53:28 am
BUDDYYYYYYY! I DON'T WANT TO LEAVE YOU! :'(
I think this might be one questgiver I need to disappoint.
Post by: umiman on May 06, 2016, 09:28:25 am
Maybe instead of trying to justify your mistake where you literally spoiled the main plot of the entire game, and where instead of trying to emphasize that some people actually liked the story, or where perhaps considering that someone was speaking with a hint of sarcasm / drama / literary zeal (something I understand a lot of humans have trouble with), you just go and fix your mistake and avoid doing that in the future?XDI wish I could go back in time and not watch it. Also go back in time and avoid some of the spoilers for this game in this thread. I'm still extremely pissed off at MrWiggles for spoiling the entire game. Fuck you MrWiggles. Fuck you with a rake.Thanks for the heads-up.Far Harbor trailer is out (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0wSCFBJcSs).That's one of those trailers that spoils everything.
I somehow knew avoiding that trailer would be wise.
And don't give me any lip about how "oh it's so obvious" and "anyone could have seen it coming". Yeah, this may not be Game of Thrones but some of us still have expectations about the story. You fucking ruined the entire game and I hate you eternally.
Beside me fucking up the hiding thing. I cant get behind how someone enjoyment is so fragile. Especially by something that the game doesnt even present to you directly. All those hours running around, exploring, picking up scrap, shooting stuff, shooting more stuff, customizing the thing to go shoot stuff. Wait, can't. Not anymore, a optional side information thats hidden was revealed. Cant shoot and collect scrap anymore. The big thing, is the twist done with the kid itself, and how that relates to the story. The story elements with the campaigns, with Mr. Brotherhood of Steel. But no, so freakishly fragile that optional hidden information is so damaging. I dont get it. In my play through I didnt discover that information about shaun. Read it somewhere. Read the actual big twist though way before I got to the institute though. Still went on shooting, exploring, collecting stuff for a long while. Even watched most of the follower alternate dialogue sequences, before I met the follower. Its something thats truely lost on me.
Post by: BFEL on May 06, 2016, 09:32:27 am
Post by: nenjin on May 06, 2016, 09:33:28 am
Quote from: umiman
...
Was the last bit totally necessary? You're on righteous ground. There's no need to bork it up by then being snide about it.
Post by: umiman on May 06, 2016, 09:34:20 am
I can't help my nature, sorry. I'll delete it.Quote from: umiman...
Was the last bit totally necessary? You're on righteous ground. There's no need to bork it up by then being snide about it.
Post by: Yoink on May 06, 2016, 09:48:11 am
The saves I have are either too late, or much earlier when I still have a heap of stuff to kill before reaching my destination.
Could you guys help me out here? Is it better to keep TDB as a companion, or finish the quest?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh, and I'm firmly on Umiman's side in the ongoing discussion, for what it's worth. Might as well chime in.
Post by: nenjin on May 06, 2016, 10:46:48 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 06, 2016, 10:49:22 am
Post by: umiman on May 06, 2016, 12:02:01 pm
You can keep him I think, the quest just won't turn in IIRC.[spoiler=The reward is actually kinda the same actually. But instead of getting the free beer from TDB at your settlement or whatever, you just go to the hotel and get it there.[/spoiler]
Post by: nenjin on May 06, 2016, 12:10:53 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on May 06, 2016, 12:45:00 pm
I would, but I've sworn to never play a Bethesda RPG without total save control.
There's mods for that.
Thanks, but I'd rather wait for mods to add basic needs and fiddle with damage rather than having to get mods to deal with their saving bullshit, killing-by-inches carry weight bullshit, &c.
Post by: BFEL on May 06, 2016, 03:05:13 pm
And furthermore do you REALLY think someone's gonna go to the trouble of making their own needs system from scratch when they could just change the survival mode system already there?
I mean, did New Vegas have a needs mod? Maybe it did, but I'm betting against it because it had that in the vanilla game anyway.
Post by: MrWiggles on May 06, 2016, 06:03:20 pm
Spoiler: Long Quote Chain (click to show/hide)
Post by: Putnam on May 06, 2016, 06:11:55 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on May 06, 2016, 06:20:18 pm
I don't think the spoiler was all that bad, but come on... You've made your point.
Post by: umiman on May 06, 2016, 06:35:53 pm
This is my face right now.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyway, I'm sure everyone is tired of the derail.
Post by: JimboM12 on May 06, 2016, 07:10:13 pm
Umiman, stop secretly spoiling that the next fallout game is in europe.
Post by: umiman on May 06, 2016, 07:20:23 pm
Rather then make a joke about old men and cialis and assumptions that umiman is secretly the rippin' and the tearin' guy, ill settle for the fact that that photo was taken in a european car as the steering wheel is on the right.You wish dude. Bethesda will never take it out of USA. You're more likely to get Fallout Florida than Fallout Europe.
Umiman, stop secretly spoiling that the next fallout game is in europe.
Post by: BFEL on May 06, 2016, 07:25:55 pm
You wish dude. Bethesda will never take it out of USA. You're more likely to get Fallout Florida than Fallout Europe.Y'know what *I* want to see?
Fallout China
I mean c'mon, its a freakin OBVIOUS setting. Its like literally the only other world power mentioned in the series :P
And if they take it there Bethesda can do whatever stupid plot for stupidheads they want without jackbooting all over our precious canon!
Post by: JimboM12 on May 06, 2016, 07:27:56 pm
You wish dude. Bethesda will never take it out of USA. You're more likely to get Fallout Florida than Fallout Europe.Y'know what *I* want to see?
Fallout China
I mean c'mon, its a freakin OBVIOUS setting. Its like literally the only other world power mentioned in the series :P
And if they take it there Bethesda can do whatever stupid plot for stupidheads they want without jackbooting all over our precious canon!
The hilarious part is Fallout China would probably be immedately banned in China.
Post by: Rolan7 on May 06, 2016, 07:41:48 pm
Canada has some significant backstory importance (being annexed by MERICAN POWAH AMOUR), but other than that, I can't think of any other countries being mentioned...
Post by: Glloyd on May 06, 2016, 07:55:09 pm
But it'll probably never leave the States. They'll have another one in Washington before they even consider doing one elsewhere.
Post by: BFEL on May 06, 2016, 08:05:09 pm
Post by: umiman on May 06, 2016, 08:14:49 pm
So I have to turn to modding to get my Chinese fix eh?It's okay. Just imagine Sleeping Dogs is actually Fallout Hong Kong. See, the only country that got obliterated was the US. Everyone else was fine and entered a new golden age together of peace and prosperity. Just no one has bothered to tell the states or help them or do anything. Once in awhile they drop their deformed science experiments in the states.
Post by: MrWiggles on May 06, 2016, 08:24:08 pm
Post by: Neonivek on May 06, 2016, 08:40:37 pm
I have a rather strong prediction for the next Elder Scroll game. I imagine, it'll either bet set in the far past, where Man was just starting to colonize the main continent, or it'll be this continent colonizing somewhere else. As this'll be a strong thematic tie to have the inclusion of the settlement system.
But time is cyclical in Eldar Scrolls.
Post by: MarcAFK on May 06, 2016, 10:02:37 pm
Yesterday Tasha got stuck in rubble at the Comms array near fort Hagan. Some Spetsnaz ninja she turned out to be. I would have liked to be able to use console commands to hack her out, but survival :(
Rip.
Post by: NullForceOmega on May 06, 2016, 11:56:18 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on May 07, 2016, 12:15:25 am
Post by: NullForceOmega on May 07, 2016, 12:21:23 am
Of course, maybe you LIKE 'thesda cutting and pasting factions from other places so they don't have to think. It worked so well for F3.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on May 07, 2016, 01:15:01 am
Post by: Putnam on May 07, 2016, 01:22:09 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on May 07, 2016, 01:39:44 am
weird how that works, huh
Post by: Sartain on May 07, 2016, 02:15:28 am
I really don't get all the 'Put the next Fallout in X country!' stuff, there are no fleshed out or even described groups operating outside of the old U.S., hell we've got pretty much no information on Mexico or any of Canada and they're right next door. If Bethesda placed a game outside of the States there would be almost nothing to link the games together, maybe a couple weapons and possibly some T-51, because hell knows how people would react to 'Suddenly BoS in France!' or whatever. It's a game series set in the wreckage of the U.S., we're not asking someone to put Stalker or Metro to be put in the States, why are you demanding that Fallout be moved out of them?
I'm with you there, for me Fallout is very much a story about post-apocalyptic US. Moving Fallout to another country would seem kinda wrong. Like suddenly turning the Elder Scrolls into sci-fi, or making Mass Effect a WWII RTS. Sure, it might make a good game in it's own right but it wouldn't be Fallout to me. Of course, I'm also of the opinion that Fallout 3 and 4 are barely Fallouts anyway so I guess it'd fit right into the trend that Bethesda's got going :)
Post by: Yolan on May 07, 2016, 03:31:14 am
Thing I would like to see is for them to double down on polishing and integrating settlements, and more dynamic map. Right now you get a static world, with a few specific areas where random things can occur when you move into them. Rather than that I'd like to see them give raider groups etc. the ability to live in different locations, maybe moving from place to place sometimes in a nomadic manner as they loot. One week they are at location X, next week they move to location Y. And the exact number of raiders might fluctuate with their fortunes. The leaders could also be randomized, and you could add a power structure dimension like Shadows of Mordor.
I think the above could work alongside a more traditional story telling RPG experience. Now we take giant open world games as the standard, it's time to actually make them feel more alive.
Post by: NullForceOmega on May 07, 2016, 04:52:59 am
Post by: Glloyd on May 07, 2016, 05:07:59 am
Post by: TheDarkStar on May 07, 2016, 06:50:45 am
I'm actually hoping for something in the Midwest, right along the Mississippi, maybe involving trains and riverboats and multiple worldspaces.
That would be interesting. There wouldn't be as many structures as in other games, but I'd expect strong radiation over former farmland and gigantic craters where missile silos used to be.
Post by: BFEL on May 07, 2016, 07:37:50 am
As this'll be a strong thematic tie to have the inclusion of the settlement system.Since when has Beth ever used a "strong thematic tie" with its mechanics? I mean this is the game where the settlement system was INTRODUCED but they saw no reason to give you any in character reason to do it other then "protag always accepts everything blindly"
I would have liked to be able to use console commands to hack her out, but survival :(http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11834/?
Rip.
I really don't get all the 'Put the next Fallout in X country!' stuff, there are no fleshed out or even described groups operating outside of the old U.S., hell we've got pretty much no information on Mexico or any of Canada and they're right next door. If Bethesda placed a game outside of the States there would be almost nothing to link the games togetherThis is EXACTLY WHY we want this. Because we WANT to see other stuff fleshed out, we want to see the other side's perspective, both before AND after the bombs, and it allows for the creators to go absolutely NUTS with what they want to throw in.
There are plenty of ways to link the games. Thematically if nothing else. Just showing an over the top flanderization of how the country in question worked pre-war through logs and such and having survivors trying to rebuild the bombed out ruins of crazy locations would go a long way toward characterizing it as "a Fallout game"
I mean, you noted "BoS in FRANCE!" as a bad idea. Why is it any better to keep doing it over and over in every US state? Because that's what the series is now. Same shit, different state.
Post by: Rolan7 on May 07, 2016, 08:40:43 am
Though if they set a game near Chicago I'd probably change my tune. A FPS RPG reimagining the events of Fallout Tactics could be really cool... Though so far they've always advanced time, so the robot threat would be taken care of. But just think! A shaky coalition of ghouls, super mutants, tribals and DEATHCLAWS barely united under the Midwestern BoS, trying to stay together now that the apocalyptic robots are defeated. That makes for interesting faction dynamics, yeah? Should the BoS centrally control this federation, or should it remain a loose alliance?
The gimmick would probably be squad combat. Ideally with replaceable, mortal recruits... But probably with 2-3 unique "companions" from each faction. Plus dogs... lots of dogs.
And then, from the east... BoS xenophobes.
Maybe I've been spoiled by The Last Federation :P
Post by: BFEL on May 07, 2016, 08:46:55 am
This will probably come off as bitter, but I don't mean for it to... I don't think I'll buy the next Fallout.What if the next one is Obsidian fixing everything again? :P
Post by: Rolan7 on May 07, 2016, 08:49:18 am
Post by: Sirbug on May 07, 2016, 09:19:57 am
Since when has Beth ever used a "strong thematic tie" with its mechanics? I mean this is the game where the settlement system was INTRODUCED but they saw no reason to give you any in character reason to do it other then "protag always accepts everything blindly"
Bethesda way of design is about giving player options they can pick and not pick. They usually don't offer much choices within those choices but you almost always have options to turn down anything thrown at you. Bethesda doesn't give your character motivation but if you choose to do what is offered to you, you probably do have a reason. You always have a choice to just walk away.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on May 07, 2016, 09:23:32 am
As this'll be a strong thematic tie to have the inclusion of the settlement system.Since when has Beth ever used a "strong thematic tie" with its mechanics? I mean this is the game where the settlement system was INTRODUCED but they saw no reason to give you any in character reason to do it other then "protag always accepts everything blindly"
I can't imagine why the character might want a safe place that provides them with supplies and a place to store and modify gear.
Post by: BFEL on May 07, 2016, 10:34:24 am
That's nice and all, but you can pretty much do that with Red Rocket, which is within a mile of where you wake up. Without having to build shit. And the constructions that you build would take at least days, if not months to build in real life, time that your character has no motivation to waste on when they could be going after their son.I can't imagine why the character might want a safe place that provides them with supplies and a place to store and modify gear.As this'll be a strong thematic tie to have the inclusion of the settlement system.Since when has Beth ever used a "strong thematic tie" with its mechanics? I mean this is the game where the settlement system was INTRODUCED but they saw no reason to give you any in character reason to do it other then "protag always accepts everything blindly"
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Just had to sit through Maxson's opening speech again. Fucking hell he's a douchebag. Spent the whole time pointing a gun in his face for lols.
Its ironic that Maxson believes synths can't think when he obviously hasn't put a single thought of his own into the issue. Just about makes me physically ill sitting through his bullshit.
Post by: Bluexdog on May 07, 2016, 10:48:05 am
Post by: scriver on May 07, 2016, 11:00:45 am
Post by: Yolan on May 07, 2016, 11:23:23 am
I'm bored with the normal fallout 4, anyone have any challenges to do?
Playing with some mods that ramp up the difficulty, doing survival mode, while also trying very hard not to die. Every time I die I put a scar on my face.
Just hit level 14 and I've only legitimately died twice (not counting some stupid bullshit like falling off the church or walking into a mine).
Both of those deaths though were also a bit silly. Way over powered dog and a way over powered ghoul (who mutated right in front of me and one shotted me).
Basically I'd suggest play like this, semi-Iron Man, where you try and only die a handful of times while playing, and never because you choose to be rambo
against superior forces.
I played a fair few hours before restarting and doing this playthough, the regular fight-die-reload-fight again-win style, and this time round its way more engaging. Firefights can be extremely tense, and a lot of times I've had to cut and run. This brings your judgement back into the game in a real way, because there are actual consequences.
Post by: Yolan on May 07, 2016, 11:49:03 am
Here's a cool mod to go with survival mode locking out fast travel.
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/10157/?
Lets you build motorbikes (which use fuel), vertibirds (if you have accessed them already through going to that island), and teleportation devices (if you have been to the instititute).
Using these you can fast travel between your settlements. Seems like an excellent work around.
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 07, 2016, 12:00:51 pm
Post by: Yolan on May 07, 2016, 12:20:26 pm
Post by: Krevsin on May 07, 2016, 03:50:35 pm
Here's the thing tho, look at it from the view of the people with the money. There is literally nothing brandable or recognisable connecting the different countries or continents in the Falloutverse together. Now this may be cynical from me, but:I really don't get all the 'Put the next Fallout in X country!' stuff, there are no fleshed out or even described groups operating outside of the old U.S., hell we've got pretty much no information on Mexico or any of Canada and they're right next door. If Bethesda placed a game outside of the States there would be almost nothing to link the games togetherThis is EXACTLY WHY we want this. Because we WANT to see other stuff fleshed out, we want to see the other side's perspective, both before AND after the bombs, and it allows for the creators to go absolutely NUTS with what they want to throw in.
There are plenty of ways to link the games. Thematically if nothing else. Just showing an over the top flanderization of how the country in question worked pre-war through logs and such and having survivors trying to rebuild the bombed out ruins of crazy locations would go a long way toward characterizing it as "a Fallout game"
I mean, you noted "BoS in FRANCE!" as a bad idea. Why is it any better to keep doing it over and over in every US state? Because that's what the series is now. Same shit, different state.
Non-American location = No easily brandable parts of the universe, no pipboys, no vaults, no retrofuturistic americana, no power armor (the US was the only country with power armor), no Super Mutants, no BoS
Which leads to: We need to add the easily brandable parts of the universe to the setting because otherwise people will be confused sheep who will not buy our game and give us all their money. Then you end up with:
Non-American location = Pip Boys, Power Armor, Totally-not-BoS, Totally-not-Super Mutants and Totally-not-Vaults
It's like Fallout with all of its recognisable elements in it but now with a different backdrop. It's both yours and my own worst nightmare.
Now I'd personally really love if they took the next game to I dunno, post-apocalyptic France, UK, Soviet Union or Japan, but I'm all but certain they will definitely cram as many recognisable, easily brandable elements into them as possible instead of doing something completely new and fresh,n but I am almost definitely certain that it'll just end up a new backdrop with all the same stuff.
a DLC I could believe in, but a fully fledged fallout game? I think it's best to avoid that entirely.
Post by: Grim Portent on May 07, 2016, 04:04:18 pm
A Vault equivalent would also be sensible to find elsewhere. It's not like countries aware of the threat of nukes wouldn't build something to preserve people if they could.
Post by: Krevsin on May 07, 2016, 04:21:23 pm
Pip-Boy and Power Armour equivalents wouldn't actually be unreasonable to find in other countries to be fair. The incarnations present in the prior games have all been developed by US groups, but it's highly likely Europe and China would have their own versions of hand held computers and advanced armour, though the latter in China was canonically the Chinese stealth suit.Europe was not unified and has been ravaged by internal warfare even before the nukes started flying and China instead of developing Power Armor developed the stealth suit.
A Vault equivalent would also be sensible to find elsewhere. It's not like countries aware of the threat of nukes wouldn't build something to preserve people if they could.
All of those things you said are reasonable to assume. But they are not marketable.
You do not understand the depths of my cynicism, by "equivalent" I mean "copy". As in, do the same thing, paint it a different colour and you're done. As in, the Not-Quite-Vaults still run experiments and the Not-Quite-Super Mutants are still large hulking murderous brutes and power armor is still power armor. Basically I'm pretty sure that any main line game set in a different country would turn out to be exactly like Fallout 3 or 4 but with a different backdrop. Replace the american propaganda with chinese propaganda, paint the power armor red and make it vaguely eastern-looking in design and have giant purple mutants who are the results of government experimentation, that kind of deal.
I'd be much more optimistic if we were talking about DLC, which seems to have far more free reign as far as what they intend to do with the setting is concerned.
Post by: BFEL on May 07, 2016, 04:38:16 pm
Pip-Boy and Power Armour equivalents wouldn't actually be unreasonable to find in other countries to be fair. The incarnations present in the prior games have all been developed by US groups, but it's highly likely Europe and China would have their own versions of hand held computers and advanced armour, though the latter in China was canonically the Chinese stealth suit.In defense of Power Armor it would still be somewhat reasonable to find variants of it in China as a "US soldiers equipped with it fought here, now survivors have found some and possibly replicated it"
A Vault equivalent would also be sensible to find elsewhere. It's not like countries aware of the threat of nukes wouldn't build something to preserve people if they could.
Post by: Glloyd on May 07, 2016, 05:14:06 pm
Post by: Bluexdog on May 07, 2016, 05:16:49 pm
Yeah. Honestly I don't have any faith in Bethesda after Skyrim and FO4. I just really want Obsidian to make another Fallout because NV was miles ahead 3 and 4, but I doubt it'll happen at this point, even though they expressed interest in it a while back.I agree in full, new vegas had more replayability
Post by: Yolan on May 08, 2016, 01:43:43 am
I've seen a lot of negative reviews of F4 on steam talking about it pandering to COD types. I don't see it that way at all to be honest, even though it's clearly a different kind of game to the classic Fallouts, which I loved. Bethesda's games are about combat, but combat as it relates to your build. The equipment you have, the perks you choose, the way you mod your weapons or armor. At higher difficult levels, and especially with mods, you need to be every bit as discerning and careful as you might be when playing MISERY for Call of Pripyat. There is very little overlap between a MISERY player and a COD player. Bethesda isn't going after this hardcore experience either, of course. But it has made a platform that can be angled in that direction. If it was nothing but shooting that would be impossible, not matter how you modded it.
The Witcher III kicks Fallout 4's ass in so many ways when it comes to voice acting, narrative, etc. etc. But general gameplay? I've got to say I enjoy Fallout a lot more. I never felt much of a rush playing the Witcher. Never felt like the world was pushing back, trying to keep me down. Even on the hardest difficulty and with mods to make it even harder it felt like a cakewalk. Modded survival Fallout 4 kicks my ass if I step out of line, which is exactly what I want.
Post by: nenjin on May 08, 2016, 03:44:46 am
The Witcher III kicks Fallout 4's ass in so many ways when it comes to voice acting, narrative, etc. etc. But general gameplay? I've got to say I enjoy Fallout a lot more. I never felt much of a rush playing the Witcher. Never felt like the world was pushing back, trying to keep me down. Even on the hardest difficulty and with mods to make it even harder it felt like a cakewalk. Modded survival Fallout 4 kicks my ass if I step out of line, which is exactly what I want.
Well, Witcher is entirely narratively-driven. It is way more concerned with providing a movie-like experience than with great, extensible gameplay. At the end of the day, Witcher just wants you to play it through to the end. Bethesda designs their games to scale so people get way more mileage out of it. If you subtracted all the story elements from the Witcher it'd be a short game. You can't say the same for Bethesda games.They're way more focused on the act of playing whereas Witcher, at least based on my experience from the first two, is at least 60% passively enjoying the dialog and characters.
Post by: Glloyd on May 08, 2016, 05:11:42 am
Apologies for the spelling, I'm on mobile.
Post by: Flying Dice on May 08, 2016, 10:19:08 am
I've seen a lot of negative reviews of F4 on steam talking about it pandering to COD types.That sort of accusation gets thrown around a lot these days, and the is one of those cases where people don't know what they're talking about. Even the core gunplay and movement mechanics are pretty substantially different, never mind difficulty.
Post by: Vendayn on May 09, 2016, 03:42:10 am
Post by: Yolan on May 09, 2016, 04:46:31 am
Post by: Flying Dice on May 09, 2016, 10:25:48 am
Post by: Flying Dice on May 10, 2016, 01:52:59 am
Post by: Yolan on May 10, 2016, 11:54:34 am
So regarding that fast travel mod, the vehicle doesn't come with you. So what you would need to do is make a car/bike/etc at each location that you want to be able to fast travel out from. Not really ideal, but still a nice middle-way for me. I'm going to go with the motorbike.
Incidentally, was thinking of starting fresh as I've been getting lazy with my "iron man" character, getting away with too many deaths. Maybe if I did a periodic diary with screen shots in its own thread it might keep me honest.
EDIT: I'm going ahead with the diary idea. Thread is here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158048.msg6989720#msg6989720).
Post by: Flying Dice on May 11, 2016, 05:23:20 pm
Also the Far Harbor beta invites are going out, according to Bethesda. Open launch is slated for the 19th.
Post by: MarcAFK on May 13, 2016, 05:27:00 am
I've now installed, true storms, darker nights, scrap everything, build everywhere, 2 mods for diamond city radio, extra settlement building stuff, improved map, and then because bathesda thinks mods are cheating I've also been forced to install F4se to patch back in achievements and the command console.
Then I ran a few commands in the console, player.placeatme c1aeb to spawn a workbench in the city, then setlocationcleared 00002cef 1 to make the bench unlocked.
Now I can finally build a chair in my upstairs room overlooking the city. And yes technically now I can scrap and build all over diamond city but I'll try not to abuse the power. It's just not immersive.
However, aparrently things I build outside may vanish when the cell updates, I believe there is a console command to fix this.
I experienced a bug with scrap everything, I couldn't sprint near the edges of settlements, there's a patch for fallout4.ini the nexus mods page for that mod.
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 13, 2016, 11:41:35 pm
[Preston hefts his minigun.]
"Let me mark it on your map."
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on May 14, 2016, 12:02:57 am
Post by: Yolan on May 14, 2016, 08:36:57 pm
@ MarcAFK - Congratz. The game really, really is better modded. I'd like to recommend some of the mods I'm using. I've got a list with links in the first post of my permadeath survival run thread.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158048.0
In the final spoiler there.
Post by: MarcAFK on May 15, 2016, 12:21:15 am
I'll be posting my home plate makeover soon, the kitchen and parlour are basically done, bathroom and bedroom need work. Not sure what I'll do with the other half of the house, maybe just a well stocked but tidy workshop.
Post by: nenjin on May 15, 2016, 12:24:40 am
"I have word of another settlement that needs your help - the pits of Tartarus." (http://kotaku.com/the-fallout-4-survival-permadeath-run-that-turned-prest-1776289180)
[Preston hefts his minigun.]
"Let me mark it on your map."
That was delightful.
Post by: Yoink on May 16, 2016, 09:11:24 am
I just cleared out a large base of gunners, and as you can imagine they have some pretty sweet loot. Combat armour for days, as well as plenty of energy weapons and such. It's going to take me a very long time to transfer all this junk to one of my settlements... kinda wish I had that rank four Strong Back perk, which I only just now discovered.
And of course I can't just leave the stuff, oh no. Me being me I feel compelled to collect it all to equip my settlements, despite the fact that actual attacks are annoyingly rare. At least eventually I should have the right perks to dismantle stuff for a decent amount of parts... so many perks you need to spend to get to that point, though. Argh.
Post by: nenjin on May 16, 2016, 10:02:59 am
I just stick to weapons at this point. Anything that doesn't sell for at least 150 caps doesn't get picked up. Keeps looting much simpler. Not that I really need money anymore anyways. I just keep hoarding caps to buy the occasional insanely overpriced legendary I haven't seen on a vendor before.
That said, I kinda want a mod that makes all these supposedly vital resources actually cost something significant, and selling stuff in bulk not a great way to make money. So you actually have a motivation to steal sometime.
Post by: Flying Dice on May 16, 2016, 10:20:39 am
Post by: nenjin on May 16, 2016, 10:50:45 am
And in FO...I dunno. A) you're so full of rad-x and rad-away and stims within a few hours it hardly seems necessary to steal more, and b) if I was playing it RP, you'd be more of an asshole for stealing in a post-apocalyptic world of scarcity than you would be in an idyllic fantasy world of plenty.
Post by: NullForceOmega on May 16, 2016, 02:15:54 pm
1: I'm far to busy killing hostiles
2: I don't need that shit, I can just kill hostiles and get the same or better without screwing around.
Post by: Flying Dice on May 16, 2016, 04:58:42 pm
Post by: ATHATH on May 16, 2016, 05:22:04 pm
Fuck, this game is a chore to play sometimes.If you want some more attacks to test the mettle of your settlers with, try putting some Deathclaw cages in your settlement. Don't release the Deathclaws inside; the !!FUN!! can/will happen without them.
I just cleared out a large base of gunners, and as you can imagine they have some pretty sweet loot. Combat armour for days, as well as plenty of energy weapons and such. It's going to take me a very long time to transfer all this junk to one of my settlements... kinda wish I had that rank four Strong Back perk, which I only just now discovered.
And of course I can't just leave the stuff, oh no. Me being me I feel compelled to collect it all to equip my settlements, despite the fact that actual attacks are annoyingly rare. At least eventually I should have the right perks to dismantle stuff for a decent amount of parts... so many perks you need to spend to get to that point, though. Argh.
Post by: BFEL on May 16, 2016, 05:24:15 pm
-A power armor equivalent of Armorsmith Extended (separate paint jobs from stuff like lead lining, make the jetpack its own thing because it's too goddamn useful/awesome to use anything fucking else in that slot, maybe even let you keep getting the buffs from the clothes/armor you have on underneath)
-Something to make your settlements actually fucking defend themselves without you babysitting them. I GAVE YOU 30 TURRETS SO I COULD STOP CHECKING YOUR DIAPER EVERY TEN MINUTES GODDAMMIT!
-Relatedly, something that makes attacks happen more often, and even more crucially, by not just telefragging 10 raiders into the middle of your base. Actually make the bastards march up here, and I'll actually build walls and shit.
-MOAR GUNS! WITH CRAFTINGS! WOOTS! There's a bunch of these right now, but sorting through them is hell. Currently using "Extended Weapon Mods" and kinda regretting it. Mostly wanted it cuz you could turn the 10mm pistol into a SMG/Rifle thing, but the sight is bugged and it doesn't look as cool as I thought it did. Also all the stats for everything's just copied from the baseline for most shit, so the cooler looking stuff has shitty stats.
Any suggestions?
Post by: umiman on May 16, 2016, 06:11:13 pm
Post by: Yoink on May 16, 2016, 06:14:27 pm
If you want some more attacks to test the mettle of your settlers with, try putting some Deathclaw cages in your settlement. Don't release the Deathclaws inside; the !!FUN!! can/will happen without them.Sounds like a fun time... do they eventually escape, or attract angry deathclaws, or just more normal attacks?
They require DLC in any case, though. So that probably won't be a thing I do unless somewhere down the line I have money and am feeling especially frivolous. :P
Post by: ATHATH on May 16, 2016, 06:27:04 pm
You get more attacks than normal, and the ones caused by cages are composed of the same species (not necessarily the same variant) of whatever creature was in the cage attracted them. Basically, you'll get a horde of Alpha Deathclaws (if you're of a high enough level) attacking your base every so often. Your captured Deathclaws do give a defense bonus if you let them out with an active gamma emitter around (it doesn't work on intelligent caged creatures, though), however.If you want some more attacks to test the mettle of your settlers with, try putting some Deathclaw cages in your settlement. Don't release the Deathclaws inside; the !!FUN!! can/will happen without them.Sounds like a fun time... do they eventually escape, or attract angry deathclaws, or just more normal attacks?
They require DLC in any case, though. So that probably won't be a thing I do unless somewhere down the line I have money and am feeling especially frivolous. :P
I got the Season Pass, so I get the new DLC's for free when they come out.
Post by: MarcAFK on May 17, 2016, 12:46:53 am
Edit:
Someone put the entire far harbour DLC onto nexus, it was downloaded 800 or more times before being removed.
Ffs , Come on guys, it's coming out in only 2 days, no need to get the only good source of Bethesda mods tangled up in lawsuits.
Post by: ATHATH on May 18, 2016, 10:02:34 am
Shit, my mods seem to have triggered much faster cell resets in all my settlements, and I stupidly still had stuff in resetting containers. Rip all my quest junk, letters, holotapes, magazines, bobble heads, burnt books, half a grand pre war money, a ton of chems and one legendary with charisma boost I really needed for selling water.Which containers reset?
Edit:
Someone put the entire far harbour DLC onto nexus, it was downloaded 800 or more times before being removed.
Ffs , Come on guys, it's coming out in only 2 days, no need to get the only good source of Bethesda mods tangled up in lawsuits.
Post by: MarcAFK on May 18, 2016, 10:12:23 am
Sanctuary: both cabinets in the bedroom of the house with the workshop.
Red rocket: tool chest in garage
Starlight drive in: cabinet at the top of the projector room.
Sunshine tidings commune: chest in one of the houses, I forget which one.
It might be a side effect of the hack that fixes the sprint bug, I think the variable involves cell resetting.
Btw every item in those settlements inside containers I built myself was still where I left it.
Post by: Ultimuh on May 18, 2016, 06:24:17 pm
Hmm.. Should I wait for mods to update, or should I just disable everything and start over without mods just because of the DLC?
Post by: JimboM12 on May 18, 2016, 11:14:33 pm
I completely forgot that the new DLC would be released today, if it weren't for the game updating itself the moment I am typing this.
Hmm.. Should I wait for mods to update, or should I just disable everything and start over without mods just because of the DLC?
Try it first without, then see what little gameplay niggles need ironing out first, then play with mods.
This is the standard mod operating procedure for Bethesda games for me and I find it works. I'm downloading now, hopefully I can start a new game with all the DLC and complete it before I leave for MegaCon in a week.
Post by: ATHATH on May 19, 2016, 01:13:18 pm
Previous to installing mods I didn't recall loosing stuff except for when I put stuff into tool boxes , ammo crates, or suitcases, But soon after the mods I found random junk in every pre existing container in all my settlements. Specifically I had stuff in the following containers which I had assumed was safe. :*Eyes widen as I realize that I use a toolbox to store all of my cool and unique stuff*
Sanctuary: both cabinets in the bedroom of the house with the workshop.
Red rocket: tool chest in garage
Starlight drive in: cabinet at the top of the projector room.
Sunshine tidings commune: chest in one of the houses, I forget which one.
It might be a side effect of the hack that fixes the sprint bug, I think the variable involves cell resetting.
Btw every item in those settlements inside containers I built myself was still where I left it.
I'll... I'll be right back.
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 19, 2016, 01:18:09 pm
Post by: scriver on May 19, 2016, 01:21:46 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 19, 2016, 01:25:38 pm
Post by: Aseaheru on May 19, 2016, 02:37:32 pm
Post by: MarcAFK on May 19, 2016, 06:34:02 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 19, 2016, 06:39:46 pm
Post by: MarcAFK on May 19, 2016, 07:29:22 pm
Post by: nenjin on May 19, 2016, 09:26:50 pm
Still it's leagues better than in any other Beth game before. Getting shit to stay put in Skyrim was a nightmare.
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 19, 2016, 09:59:44 pm
Post by: BFEL on May 19, 2016, 10:10:32 pm
Nah, that's aclipping issue, the two headed cow hanging out in my bedroom tends to knock stuff over.HEY! Don't talk about Piper that way! XD
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 19, 2016, 10:16:00 pm
Post by: Aseaheru on May 19, 2016, 11:10:57 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on May 19, 2016, 11:27:48 pm
Hey, does one of the new weapons look like one of the last-ditch german designs from WW2 with some wiring and widgits tacked on to anyone else?To pretty much everyone who's seen it, yeah.
Post by: scriver on May 20, 2016, 05:53:36 am
Post by: scriver on May 20, 2016, 06:57:33 am
I find the first time I put down an object for display, upon reloading the cell it might end up on the floor. But after that it tends to stay put. Objects with weird surfaces (like clothing) also seem to act a little hinky.
Still it's leagues better than in any other Beth game before. Getting shit to stay put in Skyrim was a nightmare.
My things always stayed where I put them in Morrowind :v
Except for that weird bug where the cell loaded it's items several steps besides itself. I guess that technically counts as moving.
Post by: BigD145 on May 20, 2016, 09:28:09 am
Which containers reset?
If you didn't make it, assume it resets.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on May 20, 2016, 02:36:07 pm
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 21, 2016, 05:22:09 am
Post by: MarcAFK on May 21, 2016, 07:24:26 am
Post by: BFEL on May 21, 2016, 09:29:02 am
Just saw the one about "Nicole Connelly" who is suspected of grand theft auto because the registration was for "Nicole Connell"
Post by: ATHATH on May 21, 2016, 06:09:47 pm
I've heard Far Harbour is great, then. Also one of its songs has a nod to the New Vegas theme. Very subtle, but it gave me chills.I've just started it. It adds a second area to the game that's around 1/4 (!) the size of the normal play area, from what I can tell so far. It also seems to add some new weapons, like a harpoon gun.
I'm half-tempted to see if I can run through the new DLC using only the items that I find in it (the Overseer's Guardian and my Two-Shot Plasma Rilfe appear to be absolutely wrecking the foes that I've encountered so far). Should I?
Also, interesting tidbit: the second shot granted by the Two-Shot ability has the base damage given by an unupgraded version of the gun that you're using. Normally, this is a negative thing, but if you have a Two-Shot machine gun whose base form is a bolt-action rifle or something...
Post by: Grim Portent on May 21, 2016, 10:02:49 pm
The new Survival mode is good, few kinks I'm not fond of but generally liking it. Eating and drinking is way too frequent for my tastes, really like what they've done with the need to sleep, the rest is basically fine. Limited/no fast travel is forcing me to walk more, which means I'm seeing more stuff, soaking in the atmosphere and generally enjoying myself despite the long trudging walks. Ammo having weight is annoying, if only because i favour some heavy guns with heavy ammo to match, but power armour is providing. Simply adore the higher lethality for me and NPCs, being able to kill super mutants in just a few seconds with a gatling laser is great, and my power armour keeps me pretty tanky. Makes me feel more like a badass and makes the challenging enemies feel more challenging rather than grindy.
Far Harbour I've not seen much of yet. Only gone a little way into the main quest, mostly done some side missions and mucked about with the harpoon gun, which I love. I love the atmosphere and design of the DLC, the fog, the trees and general dark and mysterious feel to the place. The new enemies are interesting enough to fight, if nothing special. I do like the variety of aquatic themed enemies though. I've felt that the new mirelurks were among the best redesigns of FO4 and I'm glad to see more enemies with a similar aesthetic. New favorite quest is part of the DLC, it's just way too fun, I was smiling all the way through it and left wishing for more missions like it. It's a lot like the Silver Shroud questline, but sadly far shorter. Not going to say anymore about it because I think people who aren't familiar with it should find it for themselves.
I've yet to find any of Far Harbour's power armour things yet, which is annoying me a bit. My suit needs new bling.
Post by: BFEL on May 22, 2016, 03:13:23 pm
I've yet to find any of Far Harbour's power armour things yet, which is annoying me a bit. My suit needs new bling.Reminds me of another mod I want to see. MOAR POWER ARMOR!
Seriously there's like 6 suits in the base game, and 4 of those are just variations on the same concept.
Post by: Grim Portent on May 22, 2016, 04:48:14 pm
I've yet to find any of Far Harbour's power armour things yet, which is annoying me a bit. My suit needs new bling.Reminds me of another mod I want to see. MOAR POWER ARMOR!
Seriously there's like 6 suits in the base game, and 4 of those are just variations on the same concept.
There's 5 in the base game, Raider, the three T series and the X-01. Which makes sense really, the only faction that made power armour pre-war was the US army, Raider is just scrap metal welded on and X-01 was made by the Enclave. There's not really a whole lot of other people who'd make variants of it.
I am annoyed that the Institute doesn't have a version of it's own though. With all their tech you'd think they'd rig up something for their personnel when they need to take a trip topside.
Post by: NullForceOmega on May 22, 2016, 05:05:38 pm
Edit: Actually there is one more, but it's a replacer and I wouldn't recommend it right now, if it goes standalone it might be okay for people with an anime bent.
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 22, 2016, 06:29:35 pm
I am annoyed that the Institute doesn't have a version of it's own though. With all their tech you'd think they'd rig up something for their personnel when they need to take a trip topside.That's what the Synths are for. Personnel don't go topside.
Post by: Grim Portent on May 22, 2016, 06:37:36 pm
I am annoyed that the Institute doesn't have a version of it's own though. With all their tech you'd think they'd rig up something for their personnel when they need to take a trip topside.That's what the Synths are for. Personnel don't go topside.
Apart from the one who met Kellog before he was their surface goon, and those guys who went to recruit whats-his-face to help them on their reactor.
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 22, 2016, 06:49:06 pm
It's very easy for the Institute to have changed policies since then. Definitely so, if they'd tried to go topside and then gotten shut down because nobody trusted them and they didn't trust anyone back.
Post by: Grim Portent on May 22, 2016, 07:39:56 pm
I'm not sure who Whats-His-Face is, but I do know they recruited Kellogg a long time before the game; [at least 50 years happened between Shaun's kidnapping and the game,] plus however long before then he was recruited, because he was just a kid when the NCR was doing that thing and the NCR did the thing a while ago, as I've heard.
It's very easy for the Institute to have changed policies since then. Definitely so, if they'd tried to go topside and then gotten shut down because nobody trusted them and they didn't trust anyone back.
Whats-His-Face is some scientist from the Commonwealth they try to recruit as part of the Institute questline, I can't remember his name for the life of me, but they send 2 or 3 scientists and some gen 1/2 synths to extend their invitation to him, he thinks it's a kidnapping attempt and calls the Minutemen, standoff ensues, PC shows up to deal with the situation. That guy.
I got the general impression that pre-hiring Kellogg they always used Institute personnel to handle important tasks topside because they had no else to rely on and gen 1/2 synths aren't precision instruments, then when they put Kellogg on retainer that stopped being necessary except on very important missions like kidnapping Shaun. They do send personnel (one of them anyway) to the surface in the mission where you get the reactor component for them, so they clearly appreciate the need for a close hand on some matters.
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 22, 2016, 07:46:30 pm
Post by: MarcAFK on May 23, 2016, 12:33:56 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on May 23, 2016, 01:07:00 am
Post by: NullForceOmega on May 23, 2016, 01:34:05 am
I like the construction armour, but it really looks too much like armour, I was expecting it to be more, forklifty.
It's pretty much a kitbash of automatron resources, so it does end up looking very military instead of looking like a power-loader.
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 23, 2016, 04:43:27 am
Post by: Glloyd on May 23, 2016, 04:57:43 am
I'm not gonna lie, if I could have another DLC made for Fallout 4 I think it'd be some sort of interaction with the NCR. Always liked them as a faction, and not only because of their fantastic fashion style.
Noooo, please don't let Bethesda tarnish the NCR.
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 23, 2016, 05:13:05 am
...right?
Post by: Ultimuh on May 23, 2016, 05:52:37 am
There's always New Vegas 2...Depends entirely on Obsidian, and Bethesda's willingness to part with the franchise for a bit.
...right?
Post by: BFEL on May 23, 2016, 07:08:44 am
*Kidnapping Todd Howard Intensifies*There's always New Vegas 2...Depends entirely on Obsidian, and Bethesda's willingness to part with the franchise for a bit.
...right?
Post by: Glloyd on May 23, 2016, 03:51:09 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on May 23, 2016, 06:54:56 pm
[kicks over NCR flag] wild card for life[slaps]
ROBERT HOUSE FOR LIFE
Post by: Rolan7 on May 23, 2016, 06:57:30 pm
Possibly because "No, no. That would be too easy AND good." And I still feel like Fallout should be grimdark. Or prefer my Fallout that way, I guess.
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 23, 2016, 07:06:34 pm
Post by: Teneb on May 23, 2016, 07:10:19 pm
Funnily enough, I never got to Arizona Killer or its equivalent in any path. Closest I got was the series of Wild Card quests, then I fucked off to fight robot brain jars and spooky scary skeletons.I only did Arizone Killer when doing the Legion path. Stealth Boy + remote explosives.
Post by: BFEL on May 23, 2016, 07:10:58 pm
Funnily enough, I never got to Arizona Killer or its equivalent in any path. Closest I got was the series of Wild Card quests, then I fucked off to fight robot brain jars and spooky scary skeletons.Same.
I spend so much time getting all the little details with other factions and companions and such perfect that I never finish the damn game.
The fact that finishing means not playing anymore probably had something to do with it as well. Not that its a bad thing, as Beth has shown its pretty much impossible to satisfactorily wrap things up and then continue going like nothing happened, but it does give me something of a complex.
Every time I think "but I haven't done X yet!" and then fuck off to finish some other faction or companion.
Post by: ATHATH on May 23, 2016, 08:49:03 pm
Ah, alright. I haven't done the Institute questline at all so I didn't know they sent anyone else up.You get to do part of it if you side with the Railroad.
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 23, 2016, 09:04:10 pm
I think I wanted to follow the Institute quests up to the fusion reactor one, then finish my Brotherhood business, then finish the Railroad quests and such, but I forgot who I wanted to side with.
I restarted and went for sneaky melee shooty person though.
Post by: Rolan7 on May 23, 2016, 09:18:53 pm
Nothing wrong with the game (I enjoyed the gunplay (absolutely hate the perks)). I just experienced a heroic BSOD. What *would* my character do here?
I should probably give it another go tomorrow and just go with what feels right.
Post by: umiman on May 23, 2016, 09:19:40 pm
My farthest file was in a big mess of working with the Institute and Railroad and Brotherhood up to the point someone was irrevocably angry with me.Sneaky melee shooty person?
I think I wanted to follow the Institute quests up to the fusion reactor one, then finish my Brotherhood business, then finish the Railroad quests and such, but I forgot who I wanted to side with.
I restarted and went for sneaky melee shooty person though.
Are you a ninja who shoots sledgehammers and powerfists at people?
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 23, 2016, 09:24:40 pm
My real melee shooty person is the guy with the exploding shotgun (read: death in a wooden stock), super sledge, power fist, etc.
Post by: Rolan7 on May 23, 2016, 09:25:13 pm
That's mainly how I played Zer0 in Borderlands 2. Sneaky shotgun ninja.My farthest file was in a big mess of working with the Institute and Railroad and Brotherhood up to the point someone was irrevocably angry with me.Sneaky melee shooty person?
I think I wanted to follow the Institute quests up to the fusion reactor one, then finish my Brotherhood business, then finish the Railroad quests and such, but I forgot who I wanted to side with.
I restarted and went for sneaky melee shooty person though.
Are you a ninja who shoots sledgehammers and powerfists at people?
Seriously, don't bring a knife to a gunfight. Bring a shotgun (and a katana for very tangible coolness benefits, IE invisibility)
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 23, 2016, 09:27:18 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on May 23, 2016, 10:27:23 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 23, 2016, 10:36:38 pm
Post by: MarcAFK on May 24, 2016, 12:19:43 am
Post by: BFEL on May 24, 2016, 05:46:22 am
My real melee shooty person is the guy with the exploding shotgun (read: death in a wooden stock)Thanks to the legendary modification mod I have a rapid auto combat shotgun that does that, and BOY is it hilariously broken. Don't know what it is about it but when that thing comes out shit gets WRECKED like I've never seen. I mean, it somehow seems better then stuff with two shot, and that's saying something.
Some point I need to make that exploding minigun....
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2016, 05:49:03 am
Truly this was made by Bethesda.
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 24, 2016, 05:50:38 am
An exploding 10mm wouldn't be a huge issue because it's one projectile per shot. The shotgun is quite obviously not.
Post by: scriver on May 24, 2016, 08:13:33 am
If you ever find a double-barrel with the no-reload mod, that's your weapon for the entire game. It's only limited by the reload time, so if you do, it's basically a super high damage autoshotgun that also does absurd crit damage.
Are double barrel higher damage than combutt shotguns?
Post by: Flying Dice on May 24, 2016, 09:27:44 am
Massively. It's got 5 lower base damage unmodded. However, the effective DPS if both are bottomless is much higher even when both are unmodded-the double barrel has a base fire rate of 36, while the combat shotgun has 20 (30 with the Rapid automatic receiver), and the double barrel has both higher base damage and higher RoF when fully modded (and you can fully mod one very early on, it only takes Gun Nut 2).If you ever find a double-barrel with the no-reload mod, that's your weapon for the entire game. It's only limited by the reload time, so if you do, it's basically a super high damage autoshotgun that also does absurd crit damage.
Are double barrel higher damage than combutt shotguns?
A fully modded double barrel has 96 base damage and 181 base RoF. A fully modded combat shotgun (semi-auto actually has better RoF than auto unless you want to entirely forgo bonus damage and get Rapid) has 106 base damage and 26 base RoF. Moreover, the best barrel mod for the combat shotgun reduces recoil and spread, while the best one for the double barrel (sawed off) is (IIRC) doubled crit damage.
You can get one set up early, and with a crit-oriented build + Rifleman that double-barrel can oneshot almost anything in the game. If you don't have to worry about reloading, it can also fire far faster than the combat shotgun. But even without that I still prefer the double barrel simply because all you have to do is charge a crit, sprint up, and unload on something's face. Instant dead.
--
But yeah, the explosive bullets legendary is great on shotguns because each pellet explodes.
Post by: BFEL on May 24, 2016, 08:25:31 pm
I've had a full auto exploding LASER SHOTGUN before and for some reason that does less damage then an exploding combat shotty.
Do explosive legendaries add the ballistic damage from the shot itself to the explosion? That might explain it.
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 24, 2016, 08:32:46 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on May 25, 2016, 01:02:33 pm
Here's the weird thing about it though.I don't believe so. However, as mentioned, the explosion procs for every pellet (as does the bleed legendary). That means that each shot does 90 extra explosive damage. Or applies 150 damage of bleed. It's why both of those are highly effective on all the high-volume low per-shot damage weapons.
I've had a full auto exploding LASER SHOTGUN before and for some reason that does less damage then an exploding combat shotty.
Do explosive legendaries add the ballistic damage from the shot itself to the explosion? That might explain it.
Post by: NullForceOmega on May 25, 2016, 01:07:31 pm
Post by: umiman on May 25, 2016, 01:08:40 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on May 25, 2016, 01:13:51 pm
Post by: Lightningfalcon on May 25, 2016, 01:36:43 pm
Post by: Flying Dice on May 25, 2016, 02:32:15 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on May 25, 2016, 03:46:13 pm
I still carry mine around, but it only gets used on things that are stupid bullet-sponges, generally I use my gauss rifle for everything else.This is what I did with an explosive combat rifle (so not even using the multi-pellet madness). The explosive trait seems crazy strong compared to everything short of "Extra damage to full health" on a 6-crank musket. And I guess bleed, which I never tried.
Post by: NullForceOmega on May 25, 2016, 05:59:05 pm
The thing about bleeding damage is that there are no generalized resistances that apply to it as there are for things like physical, radiation, and poison damage--and it stacks! It's typeless true damage that is equally effective against every enemy in the game. The only reason it's not the best thing in the game is because other approaches to damage are as or more broken and apply their damage instantly.
Doesn't matter if it stacks insanely if the target doesn't drop in a reasonable timeframe. I've had to hold on single targets for more than ten seconds with the weapon, and during a large battle (the only time I use heavy or full auto weapons) that is completely unacceptable.
Post by: Flying Dice on May 25, 2016, 08:21:58 pm
The thing about bleeding damage is that there are no generalized resistances that apply to it as there are for things like physical, radiation, and poison damage--and it stacks! It's typeless true damage that is equally effective against every enemy in the game. The only reason it's not the best thing in the game is because other approaches to damage are as or more broken and apply their damage instantly.
Doesn't matter if it stacks insanely if the target doesn't drop in a reasonable timeframe. I've had to hold on single targets for more than ten seconds with the weapon, and during a large battle (the only time I use heavy or full auto weapons) that is completely unacceptable.
You don't have to hold it on single targets. Very few things in the game won't tick down from a second or two worth of stacked bleeds. Admittedly, it's not as good for killing large numbers of enemies, it's much more oriented around burning single very nasty targets, like Mirelurk Queens and high-tier Deathclaws, so it's better when put on something like an automatic pistol that doesn't take much carry weight. Mirelurk Queen down in two drums from a pipe rifle (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awLIxWLLCuY), Alpha Deathclaw in ~1/4 of a box of minigun ammo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usvu1o34kDM), stuff like that. It's fire-and-forget, ~2-4s of firing on one of the toughest enemies in the game and then you can walk away while they die for relatively low ammo costs. Pretty sure I saw a .gif a while back where someone killed a Mirelurk Queen with two mags from a Wounding 10mm auto.
But yeah, if you need something for mowing down trash, explosive is obviously the way to go.
Does it work on synths??It does. Robots as well.
Post by: BFEL on May 25, 2016, 09:47:35 pm
Post by: XhAPPYSLApX on May 27, 2016, 12:01:35 am
I'm making a mod for Fallout 4, and it's gonna be a BIG one, it adds Skills, a new Perks system that replicates that of New Vegas' Perks system, I'm gonna try and redo the spawns in the game to make them un-leveled, and among other things, pretty much make it into the game I've been wanting for 5 (7) years.
I'll try and post pics of the work in progress version in a while, stand by :D
Post by: MarcAFK on May 27, 2016, 10:38:47 am
Post by: Culise on May 27, 2016, 08:33:36 pm
EDIT: Add the Texture Optimization Project to that short list; I suspect that it may help my poor beleaguered GPU a wee bit.
Post by: MarcAFK on May 28, 2016, 12:21:40 am
Post by: BFEL on June 03, 2016, 05:35:22 pm
They made a tower defense minigame out of the building system. That's actually kinda awesome.
Also, I just received "Robes of Atoms Faithful" and it has 25 rad damage resist, but also notes a "Rad Resist 5"
Does this mean what I think it means? Does it let you just straight up IGNORE up to 5 points of rads? If so this is literally the new best clothes in the game.
Post by: Grim Portent on June 21, 2016, 04:21:19 pm
Being able to mass produce stuff is nice though, churned out several hundred rounds of minigun ammo in no time at all.
Post by: Ultimuh on June 22, 2016, 02:26:28 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Grim Portent on June 22, 2016, 02:58:29 am
With the modifications to limb crippling and addition of glowing one resurrection powers ghouls are somewhat different to fight than any other enemy in the game. They also work well for horror-esque areas because of the whole zombie thing.
Supers are basically just a part of the raider/mutant/mercenary group, where all three function the same way but have different gear and stats to distinguish them. Anything that could replace supers would be basically the same thing, so there's no point in replacing them. You could paint them red and coat them in hair but they'd still be supers in all the ways that matter.
Post by: Ultimuh on June 22, 2016, 03:01:51 am
Although I would accept Super Mutants more if they only didn't require so many bullets to kill.
Post by: Grim Portent on June 22, 2016, 03:05:19 am
I do have to say they (and everything else) are much more fun to fight on Survival mode though, the combat rebalance is great. The lack of convenient saving annoys me though.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 22, 2016, 03:12:57 am
I suppose it's nice anytime something new is added to the Fallout universe rather than re-treading old ground. Maybe Fallout 4 could've had some amphibious sea creatures like sharks with centipede legs or mutant toads that spit pools of acid.
I was playing through on Survival but I got tired of having to always wear power armour or die in 1-2 shots. Now I have a mod with a personal jetpack and craftable ammunition and my characters making like Firefly with a flamethrower.
Post by: MarcAFK on June 22, 2016, 03:26:56 am
I think my mods are taking too much ram :(
Post by: scriver on June 22, 2016, 06:07:34 am
Post by: Mech#4 on June 22, 2016, 06:22:10 am
I think feral ghouls can survive off radiation alone, yes? It's why they tend to be around barrels and in craters near the 'warm' radiation. If not then they probably survived eating the dead corpses or each other and various mutant animals around the place. I would guess they don't need as much food as a human.
Post by: Lightningfalcon on June 22, 2016, 06:58:01 am
I've been confused over ghouls, but for a different reason. I thought anyone that was outside when the bombs fell either died or turned into a ghoul and any humans you see came from a vault. However, some audio recordings mention fighting and people searching for resources a few months afterwards. Though, this goes into my annoyance at long standing settlements like Diamond City looking like they were cobbled together out of scraps a few weeks ago. At least the settlement and houses shouldn't have skeletons laying around.From what I've found Boston wasn't directly hit, which is why so much of it is intact. Instead there was a near bit by a salted nuke, where the glowing sea is. Basically, it wasn't the nuclear explosion that killed people, but having a shit ton of radiation coming in along with the breakdown of civil order. Might also explain why there are so many ghouls.
I think feral ghouls can survive off radiation alone, yes? It's why they tend to be around barrels and in craters near the 'warm' radiation. If not then they probably survived eating the dead corpses or each other and various mutant animals around the place. I would guess they don't need as much food as a human.
Post by: scriver on June 22, 2016, 08:57:22 am
By the second game it feels even less like it, and I think Beth threw it out completely (as did New Vegas), one of their changes for the better. I think Van Buren would probably had undermined that premise as well, had it been made, from what I've read about it's story (and given how much of it was recycled in New Vegas).
As for ghouls, they were originally all from one of the vaults too. It had improper radiation protection and the exposure was just right to ghoulify them rather than kill them. I can't remember if the ghouls in F2 were all from that vault too, or if they had abandoned that idea by then. That's also where their thing for radiation comes from, although it's limited to saying they "feel better" near the power plant, not anything like Beth's "is healed th radiation" or "can survive for 300 years without food, water, or air" thing.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 22, 2016, 09:18:40 am
It would be nice if Bethesda did a bit more with theming some of the bandit lairs. The forge group could've had flame stacks shooting from the roof and rituals around casting captives into a vat of liquid metal. Something more thematic then bandits inside a factory.
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 22, 2016, 09:21:20 am
Post by: Grim Portent on June 22, 2016, 09:54:08 am
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 22, 2016, 10:22:54 am
Post by: Grim Portent on June 22, 2016, 10:28:56 am
that interpretation only holds up until Hancock, Eddie, and the poor family in the unmarked house. Where 'thesda goes completely off the rails into la-la land.
Eddie and Hancock were both turned by experimental radiation drugs from pre-war, the poor family probably just got caught in the right distance from the bomb that hit the Commonwealth that the Fallout ghouled them rather than killing them.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 22, 2016, 10:29:52 am
I don't really mind how ghouls come about, lots of radiation seems to be the simplest answer to that. I suppose an addition to Fallout lore is that people/humans did survive outside the vaults and continued living after a period of mass looting, ransacking and conflict.
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 22, 2016, 10:51:31 am
There was another person who I think became a ghoul pre-war. In one house there was a woman who was testing a radiation cure, didn't work too well and ended up becoming a ghoul. (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Peters)
This is the one I was talking about. It still amounts to 'thesda just making shit up to explain their fetish for having a zombie apocalypse without actually having a zombie apocalypse. In F1 and F2 (and FT as well as FNV) ghouls are rare and unusual to encounter, in F3 and F4 they are ubiquitous, unnecessary, and infuriating.
I get that they wanted to have a nice big roster of opponent creatures, but they just copied the things already present in the setting without rhyme nor reason and slapped them all over the place like they were using a fill all tool.
I would have prefered more enemies like the Yao-gui, the Mirelurk and the radstag, or even the very interesting new enemies in Far Harbor. Diversity and regional awareness would have gone a long way to making the games better additions to the setting.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 22, 2016, 11:08:55 am
Some new creatures are in Fallout 4. The big mosquitos are one and the queen mirelurks. Apparently centaurs were planned to be added, a pity as I like the design for them. (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Centaur_(Fallout_4)) There's also the mutant dolphins along the shore.
I do tend to think the limiting factor is the engine though, especially when I see the difficulty vertibird pilots have with flying around and the draw distance when your in one.
Post by: Rolan7 on June 22, 2016, 11:17:24 am
Also apparently ghouls aren't immune to radiation in Tactics, just resistant. They can get a rad-regeneration perk but it still irradiates them, kinda like in FO4 I guess.
Edit: Ooh I hope they add those centaurs sometime, they look great. They were a bit underwhelming in 3 and NV.
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 22, 2016, 11:30:33 am
As for the above, please don't think I don't appreciate the increase in enemy types in F4, I just feel that if 'thesda had gone a little further they could have really created a more comprehensive east coast Fallout. But instead we get zombie apocalypse, with super mutants, molerats (which have no business in the northeast of America), radscorpions (which also have no business in northeast America, but can be reasonably explained by the fact that garden scorpions are present here), Deathclaws (again, they have no business in this part of the world) and some new stuff that doesn't get used enough.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 22, 2016, 11:32:46 am
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 22, 2016, 11:39:56 am
Edit: Owls, that could be a really awesome thing, mutant owls that attack only at night. Lots of different varieties of snakes too.
More edit: Centipedes, millipedes, pillbugs, ticks, hornets, wasps, termites, praying mantis could be here too, moths, beetles, etc.
Even further edit: why do we have molerats, but not the cave rat? Furred rats are very common in the northeast, so there isn't any reason I can think of that they aren't here.
Post by: Krevsin on June 22, 2016, 01:15:21 pm
Post by: somemildmanneredidiot on June 22, 2016, 01:16:35 pm
Radracoon: a 10 foot tall man-eating racoon.
So a slightly larger racoon, or a slightly smaller bear?
Post by: Krevsin on June 22, 2016, 01:23:29 pm
The former.Radracoon: a 10 foot tall man-eating racoon.
So a slightly larger racoon, or a slightly smaller bear?
With sunglasses. For that Rad look.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 22, 2016, 01:32:42 pm
Radracoon: a 10 foot tall man-eating racoon.Not radcoon?
Post by: Aseaheru on June 22, 2016, 01:36:53 pm
Post by: Ultimuh on June 22, 2016, 02:01:14 pm
God, was anyone else terrified the first time they came across the mutant hermit crab? In my case, it was probably because it was flying, but they are horrifying, and I know they look far toomuch like spiders for some people.It gave me somewhat of a scare as well. Took many harpoons before it was slain, luckily though, Nick was around to distract it long enough.
Post by: NullForceOmega on June 22, 2016, 08:45:57 pm
Post by: Bluexdog on June 22, 2016, 08:50:21 pm
How about....10 foot killing machine?Radracoon: a 10 foot tall man-eating racoon.Not radcoon?
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 22, 2016, 08:50:52 pm
Post by: Bluexdog on June 22, 2016, 08:53:54 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 22, 2016, 09:38:39 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on June 22, 2016, 10:13:02 pm
isn't that more of a Chimera
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 22, 2016, 11:33:34 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on June 22, 2016, 11:51:02 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 23, 2016, 12:00:23 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 23, 2016, 12:08:28 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on June 23, 2016, 12:14:38 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on June 23, 2016, 12:58:43 am
Post by: Mech#4 on June 23, 2016, 02:23:39 am
Post by: Krevsin on June 23, 2016, 03:54:41 am
Post by: Putnam on June 23, 2016, 04:11:53 am
Post by: Mech#4 on June 23, 2016, 04:54:54 am
Post by: Tack on July 11, 2016, 02:06:10 pm
Spoiler: Terror Island Spoilers (click to show/hide)
-- Cheers
Post by: Aseaheru on July 11, 2016, 02:07:26 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 11, 2016, 02:32:58 pm
I find the twitchy, unpredictable movement of the ghouls creepy. Crawling out from under benches or through windows and hurling themselves at you from the darkness is a nice change to them. Other than that Fallout isn't too spooky to me. Turning a corner in Boston and coming across a Deathclaw is an " eyes wide, scramble for my exploding shotgun" dealy.I play survival. I shit myself when anything remotely deadly comes at me out of fucking nowhere. Ghoul? Eh. Raider? Eh. Mirelurk hunter suddenly pops out of the ground in front of my face? Time to do all the psycho jet!
http://i.imgur.com/tYlXQPd.gifv (http://i.imgur.com/tYlXQPd.gifv)
Post by: nenjin on July 11, 2016, 06:22:01 pm
Anyways, have any erf-shattering mods come out since then?
Also, RE: Centaurs?
That's a goddamn Chaos Spawn.
Post by: Krevsin on July 12, 2016, 12:33:57 am
Maybe its your drivers?
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 12, 2016, 04:56:54 am
Post by: ParsleyPWG on July 13, 2016, 09:22:03 am
I find the twitchy, unpredictable movement of the ghouls creepy. Crawling out from under benches or through windows and hurling themselves at you from the darkness is a nice change to them. Other than that Fallout isn't too spooky to me. Turning a corner in Boston and coming across a Deathclaw is an " eyes wide, scramble for my exploding shotgun" dealy.
I feel like with the ghouls if you don't shoot them in vats before they start moving, it's quite hard to hit them while they're running at you and unpredictable. Makes my heart race when I suddenly see one I missed get up and start charging
Post by: MarcAFK on July 13, 2016, 09:35:00 am
Compare to that newer laptops don't seem so bad and I might settle for a 970m.
Or I could use thunderbolt and a 1080 but that kind of seems like overkill now.
Or maybe a stick of ram and a cooling pad would help. Probably would save $2k.
Post by: MarcAFK on July 13, 2016, 09:50:11 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 13, 2016, 11:25:32 am
I think he means you can shoot the severed limb to damage them even after it's been detachedYou know if you amputate a limb you can still kill something by shooting it more.I know, I do finish them off, but it means I don't have to drop their health to 0 to make them unable to do any damage. It's especially useful when dealing with a swarm of the buggers.
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 13, 2016, 01:22:24 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 13, 2016, 02:09:37 pm
Post by: Tack on July 13, 2016, 02:49:35 pm
Post by: Teneb on July 13, 2016, 02:53:33 pm
Fun fact, assaultrons do.Assaultrons are pretty much Fallout terminators though, so it makes sense.
Post by: Tack on July 13, 2016, 03:00:51 pm
It's actually annoying 'cos some of the stuff you get last is also unequivocally mid-range.
(Although cool looking. C'mahn bandit base DLC. My Gorgon needs to stretch it's headlaser)
Post by: MarcAFK on July 14, 2016, 12:54:11 am
Also if you disable all the weaponry of a robotic enemy, they will go and blow themselves up. Not a diddy little explosion either, an explosion probably on par with a mininuke. Apparently they'll also attempt to charge you, but the one time I did it the guy only stood there, giving me about 7 seconds to escape.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p-IOO9932Vc
Click basically anywhere in that video and you'll see robots going nuclear.
Post by: Aseaheru on July 14, 2016, 04:00:33 am
Post by: MarcAFK on July 14, 2016, 05:08:49 am
Slightly off topic, but Fallout Shelter has updated with their much-hyped actual bit of gameplay. Dont think its on PC yet though.You mean it isn't gameplay when I make the little people run around on fire while being chewed on by roaches and deathclaws?
Post by: Flying Dice on July 14, 2016, 11:16:38 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on July 14, 2016, 11:20:41 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on July 14, 2016, 11:25:41 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on July 14, 2016, 11:26:07 pm
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 15, 2016, 12:53:13 pm
40Kids
What, do they take innocent anime made for younger children and re-dub it to be more violent?
"No, Totoro, don't eat my sister!"
More on topic, I've been trying Survival out. Lightly-modded (for a Bethesda game) Survival, but close enough I guess. I really wish you weren't required to sleep in order to save, you could just go up to a bed and have a save option or something, but other than that it's intense in a pretty good way. Nothing makes you cautious like knowing you're completely fucked for the past 2 hours you've been playing if you get killed.
My character also probably seems like a narcoleptic.
Post by: TheBronzePickle on July 15, 2016, 04:37:29 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on July 15, 2016, 04:39:42 pm
Probably could be reasonably simulated by a mod that did it at random, but one that actually checked the used materials would be even better.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 15, 2016, 04:44:43 pm
Post by: Hanslanda on July 27, 2016, 01:55:52 pm
Post by: BlackFlyme on August 29, 2016, 10:02:39 pm
Post by: MarcAFK on August 30, 2016, 07:53:44 am
Nuka-Worl's out.
That will surely get me playing that vanilla game I started recently. However in the long term I'm still rather pissed off that I can't get mods working on my new laptop. What's the point having a 970m if I can't install visual enhancement mods? Mostly I just hate playing without darker nights, twilight is infuriating for some reason.
Post by: Flying Dice on August 30, 2016, 08:05:14 am
Post by: scriver on August 30, 2016, 08:11:44 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on August 30, 2016, 08:35:58 am
Post by: Silverthrone on August 30, 2016, 08:36:49 am
So John gotted his galting lazer and blew up the wall.
“HE GOING TO KILL US” said the raiders
“I will shoot at him” said the power raider and he fired the rocket missiles. John lazererd at him and tried to blew him up. But then the ceiling fell and they were trapped and not able to kill.
“No! I must kill the raiders” he shouted
The radio said “No, John. You are the raiders”
And then John was a degenerate.
I mean, join the raiders? Absolutely not! They're raiders, they exist to feed me exp and loot. It'd be like joining the goblins, it'll upset the delicate balance of the RPG food chain.
i miss dialogue options
So do I, Sir... So do I.
But what I miss most of all is the PC zipping it. It's more fun to see a dialogue line and imagining them expressing it. There's more mileage in that than the Polite/Bored/Sarcy thing, at least. It might be a rather old and grim sentiment, but Bethesda player characters should be seen and not heard.
Post by: Flying Dice on August 30, 2016, 10:31:49 am
Post by: Silverthrone on August 30, 2016, 10:40:11 am
Come to think of it, I doubt player characters would ever come across as remotely attractive to an NPC, with how they jump and sprint wherever they go, or all the tons of smelly fruits and bodyparts in their pack.
Post by: BorkBorkGoesTheCode on August 30, 2016, 12:10:54 pm
OK, Fallout 4 is just buggy.How big is your savefile?
I lost an hour and three quarters worth of progress because of the VATS freeze issue (Either I was really unlucky and stumbled upon no beds, or Far Harbour has basically no beds around the map). All my drivers are updated AND other people have been having this issue since 1.5 was released.
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 30, 2016, 03:10:32 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on September 06, 2016, 03:49:45 am
Positive: They actually allow you to kill the raider scum.
Negative: The gauntlet is a BS way to show off a killroom any moron could have designed, and an idiotic scripted boss fight.
I like the new enemies, the environments are kind of interesting, but it isn't really anything that hasn't been done before better.
Post by: BlackFlyme on September 06, 2016, 04:10:33 am
+ New Worldspace. I like the designs, and the music. The stories are alright.
+ New monsters. New robot parts for use with Automatron. New weapons. New settlement pieces.
+ You can be a raider.
+ The protectrons in the Gulch have unique dialog if you are the Silver Shroud.
+ You can restore power to the park, and ride the rides.
Cons:
- Raiders are assholes. It's a stark contrast between how you act in the DLC and how you act in the rest of the game.
- You lose out a lot if you try and be the good guy. No access to perks or chunks of the raider storyline, and lose the new companion. And good luck escaping Nukaworld once you've aggro'd everyone.
- Harsh new requirements for upgrading new weapons.
- Lose access to some of the new settlement furniture if you are going the good route.
- Only one new settlement in Nuka-World.
- Reskinned creatures from the Commonwealth feel a little lazy. Though Nukalurks already existed, so I can't complain there. I wanted more unique zoo animals, but that's just me.
- The Gauntlet. Especially if you brought a companion along.
Post by: Bizzledorf on September 06, 2016, 12:46:52 pm
i miss dialogue optionsI miss good Bethesda games.
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 06, 2016, 01:16:50 pm
Post by: Glloyd on September 06, 2016, 01:22:05 pm
i miss dialogue optionsI miss good Bethesda games.
I mean, Morrowind had plenty of issues too, and hasn't aged all that well.
new vegas is only five years old
And isn't a Bethesda game.
Post by: Silverthrone on September 06, 2016, 02:19:37 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on September 06, 2016, 02:42:09 pm
Post by: Silverthrone on September 06, 2016, 02:59:09 pm
I think the main reason there's no DagRena Skyrim mods is that the pre-Morrowind games are fairly obscure and rather different to the rest. Which does contribute to the 'Only True Games, forged by God himself before all these new and lazy pretenders showed up and ruined it'-status, but makes it tricky to remake as a mod. Not that the old games weren't good or didn't do a lot of things better, mind.
Post by: Glloyd on September 06, 2016, 03:01:11 pm
Morrowind does have lots of things going for it though. And there are Morrowind-in-Oblivion/Skyrim mods while afaik there are no Daggerfall/Arena-in-Oblivion/Skyrim mods.
Well the reason for that is pretty obvious. 90% of those games (more for Arena) was procedurally generated, which is why the game maps are ridiculously huge. Can't really do that within the context of Beth's version of Gamebryo.
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 06, 2016, 03:06:27 pm
do you want good or do you want recent Bethesda gamesi miss dialogue optionsI miss good Bethesda games.
I mean, Morrowind had plenty of issues too, and hasn't aged all that well.new vegas is only five years old
And isn't a Bethesda game.
Post by: Silverthrone on September 06, 2016, 03:10:53 pm
Morrowind does have lots of things going for it though. And there are Morrowind-in-Oblivion/Skyrim mods while afaik there are no Daggerfall/Arena-in-Oblivion/Skyrim mods.
Well the reason for that is pretty obvious. 90% of those games (more for Arena) was procedurally generated, which is why the game maps are ridiculously huge. Can't really do that within the context of Beth's version of Gamebryo.
Yes, that too. There's a lot of Daggerite buzz about how Daggerfall is roughly the size of Great Britain, which sounds impressive until you have to bungle around in it. Hell, the Commonwealth feels like a decent size place these days now that I can't fast travel.
Post by: Glloyd on September 06, 2016, 03:36:39 pm
Morrowind does have lots of things going for it though. And there are Morrowind-in-Oblivion/Skyrim mods while afaik there are no Daggerfall/Arena-in-Oblivion/Skyrim mods.
Well the reason for that is pretty obvious. 90% of those games (more for Arena) was procedurally generated, which is why the game maps are ridiculously huge. Can't really do that within the context of Beth's version of Gamebryo.
Yes, that too. There's a lot of Daggerite buzz about how Daggerfall is roughly the size of Great Britain, which sounds impressive until you have to bungle around in it. Hell, the Commonwealth feels like a decent size place these days now that I can't fast travel.
Yeah, don't get me wrong, I loved Daggerfall when I was younger, but I tried to play it recently and it just did not hold up. People talk about how big it is, but nobody in their right mind would try to walk between two cities because it's just proc gen garbage all the way through, and the game will probably crash before you get somewhere.
Post by: Silverthrone on September 06, 2016, 03:50:38 pm
Related to all that, when Fallout 3 was relatively new, I remember seeing some long rant on how the charred wooden ruins in Springvale could never ever possibly last as long as 200 years, and how unrealistic and lazy it was, and how it didn't make any sense.
That is, as opposed to the equivolent in classic Fallout, where all the houses where identical, had weird exterial walls and had all been shaved off at exactly the same height, et cetera, et cetera. Hell, the Temple of Trials is a chapter for itself, that thing.
But it wasn't really about the unrealistic decay of wooden house frames or superior and inferior sense-making, of course. It was just someone venting some steam, because they felt disappointed at the direction the franchise had gone, and that their game wasn't theirs anymore, so to speak. With the added effect of tons and tons of nostalgia for the old times on top of it. And honestly, it's pretty understandable. I think that feeling happens to us all at some point or another.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 06, 2016, 04:36:37 pm
Post by: Silverthrone on September 06, 2016, 04:44:22 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on September 06, 2016, 04:52:34 pm
Post by: Silverthrone on September 06, 2016, 06:04:59 pm
I do think the plot suffered a lot more than it gained from the desperate attempts to stitch on earlier entities of the series, like the BoS and the Enclave. I thought it was passable, but I was very much in the right mindset at the time. I replayed it a year or so ago, and all the flaws became ridiculously glaring. Liked it a lot at the time, kind of like it now but I won't go through the trouble to install it again.
But credit where it's due, one problem I had with F3 was that putting on power armour was just dressing up in a jingling shirt. The F4 power armour is far, far better.
Post by: NullForceOmega on September 06, 2016, 06:14:14 pm
Post by: jocan2003 on September 07, 2016, 06:18:33 pm
Post by: Putnam on September 07, 2016, 06:32:53 pm
Speaking of fallout 4 mods, did they ever release the GECK? Is it still on the table? Or is it still like the prediction? Once they are done selling DLC they will release it?
released just over 4 months ago
source: googled "fallout 4 geck"
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 12, 2016, 05:46:54 am
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on September 12, 2016, 02:10:35 pm
Post by: Neonivek on September 12, 2016, 02:26:21 pm
Not gonna lie, if someone remade New Vegas and the only new thing was that it used FO4's power armor, I'd pay a good $70 dollars on that.
Not gonna lie...
I really hope they retire FO4's power armor after one game. It was a gameplay tumor...
And I don't see how it could be fixed outside maybe... I dunno
1) Make it available WAAAY later
2) Eliminate the cores (there is a reason for this! and not what you are thinking of. If they got rid of the cores then you wouldn't NEED to balance everything for in and out of suit)
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 12, 2016, 02:27:35 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on September 12, 2016, 02:30:45 pm
Post by: Iceblaster on September 12, 2016, 02:34:34 pm
Bethesda can't win when they mess with fallout IMO :v
That said, I am still hoping I get fallout 4 eventually. Especially since Nuka World's finally out. Maybe there'll be ultimate editions or whatever soon. Would let me save money :v
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 12, 2016, 02:40:50 pm
...Nnnooo, I don't see how eliminating the thing that makes them actually limited could 'fix it'. I also don't think it needed fixing. At all.Arguably I would say the only minor fixes I could ask for would be easier ways to paint it and power armor frames not becoming magically unusable when the owner dies.
Post by: Neonivek on September 12, 2016, 03:11:37 pm
...Nnnooo, I don't see how eliminating the thing that makes them actually limited could 'fix it'. I also don't think it needed fixing. At all.
Well Power Armor is broken.
It is broken because the entire game is balanced towards you never using power armor (or at LEAST having the option to not use it). While the armor itself is extremely powerful... at least 10 times more powerful than you are (That is lowballing it... Given that with the right build you can be near outright invincible)... So everything is 10 times weaker. They do this even in the last sections when you will undoubtingly have enough cores to stay in power armor indefinitely.
You could easily about 1/4th through the game get such a core roll that you will never run out. Even earlier if you know what you are doing or get the trait that makes cores last longer.
IF power armor didn't have limited power cells (that weren't limited at all), THEN you could balance the game (at least the part where they come into play) for power armor.
---
Either that or they can do the unfathomable and make Power Armor non-optimal.
Yet I have a feeling they would rather die then make power armor not the uberleet choice.
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 12, 2016, 03:13:34 pm
Post by: Neonivek on September 12, 2016, 03:15:44 pm
I don't know what game you played but in my playthrough I used my power armor for literally every major mission and still had over 150 fusion cells at the end. I'm not sure it's as limited as you think.
It isn't limited at all... It is still treated, developmentally, as if it was.
So all encounters in the game are created as if you had no power armor sans perhaps 3.
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 12, 2016, 03:17:40 pm
It is still treated, developmentally, as if it was.What are you basing this on?
So all encounters in the game are created as if you had no power armor sans perhaps 3.
Post by: Neonivek on September 12, 2016, 03:24:16 pm
It is still treated, developmentally, as if it was.What are you basing this on?
So all encounters in the game are created as if you had no power armor sans perhaps 3.
The fact that every encounter is perfectly doable without power armor and comfortably without exploits. With only about three encounters in the game being a big deal without it (The first Deathclaw fight, Salem, and Gamma guns...)
Heck I... Intentionally played without power armor for the VAST majority of the game.
In power armor? Cake walk... I essentially bent the game over my knee and spanked it.
Post by: Iceblaster on September 12, 2016, 03:27:15 pm
Post by: Neonivek on September 12, 2016, 03:27:59 pm
Honestly, I've never seen fallout on a casual level to be more than a fun game to be a badass in. If I want to have fallout be hard, I'd play hardcore mode with a few mods to make it harder and balance it that way. If you want a hard fallout game, it shouldn't be that hard to make it hard. Survival mode + some of the mods to make the game harder = a hard game.
There is kind of a league of difference between what I am talking about... And being genuinely hard.
What is with this "If you don't want the game to be blissfully easy, you must want it to be blisteringly hard"?
Post by: Iceblaster on September 12, 2016, 03:36:25 pm
Not being rude when I say all this, by the way. Sorry if I come off as a dick.
EDIT: I might have made a stupid sentence there.
What I mean, is that in my experience reading people's thoughts on games being easy, most bring up dark souls as a shining example of a game that doesn't pull punches. Which is fine. I don't like it myself, but whatever. Point is, is that my first assumption when people complain about difficulty is that when they want the game to be harder than it is by default is to find a way to make it harder. I was not saying blisteringly hard was an option. If I sounded like that in my previous post, I did not mean that to be implied. I simply wanted to say I make the game harder if I wanna play a harder game.
Power armor being how it is honestly doesn't matter to me because I probably won't end up using power armor. I've never liked the look of it. Never felt sleek enough to look fun without going full sci-fi space gun mode. Only criticism would be is that fusion cores are a bit too common from what videos I've seen. Besides that, I see no problem. Maybe the problem isn't the game. Maybe it's just the perception of difficulty you/others have.
Post by: Rolan7 on September 12, 2016, 03:37:38 pm
I didn't really use power armor much outside the glowing sea and other "appropriate" situations though. It was awkward to keep track of and felt out of character for my PC. It also didn't seem to help that much though (even the Glowing Sea radiation, that was disappointing). Possibly because I didn't put any points in armorer (suboptimal, but I didn't want my character to be an armorer). I was also focusing on single-shot rifles, so maybe I took less hits than typical.
Is it me or were single-shot rifles just the best? They give you the best accuracy obviously, best range, really good and accurate at mid-range too, and then they're the best at short range too because they included shotguns (haha)
I guess energy weapons were about as good (5-crank sniper musket, uh... 5-crank shotgun musket...) but automatic weapons just seemed baaad. Bad AND a waste of bullets.
Edit: Oh except I got an automatic rifle with exploding rounds once, and that was better automatic I think. Since I guess the bonus damage was per bullet and the shit accuracy didn't matter so much. Also bullets are as plentiful as stimpacks so meh
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 12, 2016, 03:41:30 pm
They could have been fine if they weren't actively weakened per shot by being automatic.
Post by: Neonivek on September 12, 2016, 03:53:30 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 12, 2016, 04:08:17 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on September 12, 2016, 04:14:34 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 12, 2016, 04:33:12 pm
Fair enough. I didn't have the same experience but maybe I was running into harder challenges earlier. Or maybe I'm just bad at the game. I got my power armor shot up quite a bit and it wasn't anything like a cake walk.It is still treated, developmentally, as if it was.What are you basing this on?
So all encounters in the game are created as if you had no power armor sans perhaps 3.
The fact that every encounter is perfectly doable without power armor and comfortably without exploits. With only about three encounters in the game being a big deal without it (The first Deathclaw fight, Salem, and Gamma guns...)
Heck I... Intentionally played without power armor for the VAST majority of the game.
In power armor? Cake walk... I essentially bent the game over my knee and spanked it.
Post by: TheDarkStar on September 12, 2016, 06:00:54 pm
Post by: Bluexdog on September 12, 2016, 06:19:51 pm
Post by: Rolan7 on September 12, 2016, 06:28:50 pm
I would like to add that, at early levels, the game was actually pretty tense and difficult... I clearly remember hiding in a (steel?) manufacturing plant, after running past some "snipers" (scrubs with long rifles). There were about 7 raiders above me on catwalks, and I was cowering behind cover as they searched for me. I was a LAWYER, what the FUCK was going on. I was spraying suppressive fire just to keep them away.
I actually didn't clear that area that time, I shot my way to an exit and Got The Fuck Out. Went back to Sanctuary and built up the base a bit.
Later, the game because a typically easy and slightly tedious Bethesdathon. But that moment will stick with me.
Also? I still haven't played since I found Shaun. It's been a while. That moment was so powerful that I wasn't sure how to proceed. I will, sometime, just... I'm kinda fine leaving that story there. I might actually make a new character next time.
Post by: Teneb on September 12, 2016, 06:47:34 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on September 12, 2016, 06:48:27 pm
Now if we could get NCR Ranger power armor...
Post by: Teneb on September 12, 2016, 06:49:58 pm
It makes the game fun, in my opinion. What can I say? I like power armor being actual fucking power armor and not just really fucking heavy regular armor.Desert Ranger Armor (Riot Armor) is not true power armor. Only the optic bits are actually powered.
Now if we could get NCR Ranger power armor...
Post by: Rolan7 on September 12, 2016, 06:55:25 pm
They take perfectly functional archaeotech power armor off slain Brothers and Sisters and strip out the fucking servos!
AGHHH
Edit: Ah no I'm thinking of a different armor I think, nevermind. Except STILL AGGGH
Post by: Teneb on September 12, 2016, 06:59:54 pm
Desert Ranger Armor is fucking HERESY and if anything would make me abandon the NCR, it would be that. (Or curiosity on replays)Yeah, you were thinking of Salvaged Armour. Desert Ranger is the one on the game's box art.
They take perfectly functional archaeotech power armor off slain Brothers and Sisters and strip out the fucking servos!
AGHHH
Edit: Ah no I'm thinking of a different armor I think, nevermind. Except STILL AGGGH
Post by: umiman on September 12, 2016, 07:03:34 pm
I quickly browsed through the last pages and haven't seen anything about it, so forgive me if this has already been talked about, but Bethesda said PS4 Fallout 4 (and Skyrim's re-release) won't be getting mod support because Sony vetoed it. Rumor goes that Sony wanted Bethesda to QA every single mod ever published for Fallout 4, which is kind of bullshit and Bethesda said no.I heard about that, but I don't really care since I don't own of those consoles... making this sentence extremely pointless.
Post by: Iceblaster on September 12, 2016, 07:12:32 pm
I don't have a gaming PC nor am I going to build or make one at the moment.
Post by: umiman on September 12, 2016, 07:18:41 pm
Honestly, I forgot about that. Makes me want to double down on wanting an xbox one. Aside from not having to make a second profile, having console mods will be a big plus.FYI there's a size limit on how many mods you're allowed to have and there's no script extender so basically you're limited to simple graphic mods and stuff like that.
It's better than nothing, but it's not the same as a PC.
Post by: Iceblaster on September 12, 2016, 07:20:59 pm
Post by: umiman on September 12, 2016, 07:28:08 pm
Meh. WHenever I use mods on NV, I always feel overwhelmed. Never been much for the big quest mods anyway. Graphics tweaks and stuff are nice enough. Are the settlement mods on there at least? Sounds like homemaker and others would be on.Those need it to. Almost everything outside of graphics and UI need it.
Also keep in mind that the graphical stuff generally have to be toned down from the PC versions as... you know... consoles.
Again, there are a lot of good mods on there. But temper your expectations significantly.
Post by: Iceblaster on September 12, 2016, 07:29:29 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on September 12, 2016, 08:14:05 pm
YEAH BUT WHAT IF IT WAS DUDEIt makes the game fun, in my opinion. What can I say? I like power armor being actual fucking power armor and not just really fucking heavy regular armor.Desert Ranger Armor (Riot Armor) is not true power armor. Only the optic bits are actually powered.
Now if we could get NCR Ranger power armor...
Post by: Rolan7 on September 12, 2016, 08:17:24 pm
HMM SYMBOLISM
ncr still best republic tho
Post by: BlackFlyme on September 12, 2016, 08:21:16 pm
Basically regular power armour with a duster over it, IIRC.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on September 12, 2016, 08:31:27 pm
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on September 12, 2016, 08:45:37 pm
I honestly just want slightly bigger NCR Desert Ranger gear to be power armor. Like, so it's bigger. And with news of Obsidian making a new Fallout...
Wait what? Aren't they already working on like four different things right now?
Post by: Culise on September 12, 2016, 10:22:18 pm
The closest I ever heard was the quickly-discredited rumour that they were working on Fallout: New Orleans. I haven't heard anything else, but it's perfectly possible Koss heard something I didn't since I haven't been following the latest news.I honestly just want slightly bigger NCR Desert Ranger gear to be power armor. Like, so it's bigger. And with news of Obsidian making a new Fallout...
Wait what? Aren't they already working on like four different things right now?
Post by: Rolan7 on September 12, 2016, 10:39:02 pm
https://youtu.be/mLJ1gyIzg78?t=321
NV humanized them a little more, but really... that's a great example of how 3 and NV (and 4, I GUESS) told stories with the placement of physics objects.
Post by: Putnam on September 13, 2016, 01:18:54 am
did you know: the T-60 is canonically the last power armor line to have been made before the war (as of fallout 4)
did you know: at least one X-01 suit was created before the end of the war, despite having been invented by the Enclave (as of Nuka World)
Post by: NullForceOmega on September 13, 2016, 01:59:52 am
did you know: Bethesda is incapable of even holding their writers on a single game to the script and setting bible
did you know: Bethesda is completely unwilling to even try to make their Fallout series (now one of their flagship franchises) internally consistent
Post by: Neonivek on September 13, 2016, 02:06:52 am
did you know: Bethesda has no capacity to keep a storyline coherent due to their over-reliance on the 'unreliable narrator' trope
did you know: Bethesda is incapable of even holding their writers on a single game to the script and setting bible
did you know: Bethesda is completely unwilling to even try to make their Fallout series (now one of their flagship franchises) internally consistent
Did you know Bethesda aren't even competent story tellers as it is?
I mean... glad if you (you can be anyone) like their plotlines but yeah... They are bad at it.
Like REALLY bad at it... near incompetent at times... Skyrim is a huge example of this...
Makes me really wonder if Morrowind and earlier was as good as people was... and if it was, what happened since then?
Post by: Egan_BW on September 13, 2016, 02:20:51 am
Post by: Neonivek on September 13, 2016, 02:22:04 am
Obsidian are great. I like their games? Have I mentioned that I like Obsidian? Because they're great.
Am I mixing up companies?
Post by: Egan_BW on September 13, 2016, 02:25:20 am
Post by: TheBronzePickle on September 13, 2016, 02:26:43 am
Several other key members of the team jumped ship during or after Oblivion's development, as well.
It's not exactly proven, but the people who care about this sort of thing are convinced that Kirkbride was basically the only person who was able to write anything decent for Bethesda that they'd actually use, since when he left, everything about Bethesda's storytelling went to shit.
Post by: Neonivek on September 13, 2016, 02:29:24 am
It makes no sense for the quality of their writing to dip to the bottom barrel levels it has now hit without something happening.
Post by: Putnam on September 13, 2016, 02:31:14 am
Morrowind's world is hugely based off of Michael Kirkbride's version of it laid out in what is essential the series bible, the Pocket Guide to the Empire Volume 1, and Ken Rolston was lead designer (and AFAIK had a huge writing role too).
Oblivion's world basically ignores Michael Kirkbride's version of it (a lush jungle etc.), and Ken Rolston was a lead designer (also still huge writer AFAIK).
Skyrim's world is almost entirely based off of Michael Kirkbride's version of it, and Emil Pagliarulo was the lead writer.
Fallout 3 and 4 both basically ignore the series bible (Chris Avellone's Fallout Bible) (or at least its tone) and both had Emil Pagliarulo as lead writer.
Fallout New Vegas heavily uses the series bible and had the writer of the series bible as a senior designer (and writer of Dead Money and Old World Blues).
These are the biggest factors when it comes to writing that I can think of. Make of them what you will.
Post by: Glloyd on September 13, 2016, 02:54:40 am
Post by: Neonivek on September 13, 2016, 02:55:50 am
Chris Avellone is an amazing writer, old world blues was hilarious and probably the most well written of all the DLCs. I hated Dead Money, don't remember how good the writing was on tht. Shame that Avellone left Obsidian so if we get a New Vegas 2 he probably won't be a part of it.
Honest Hearts was one that had a lot of potential but was apparently butchered.
Post by: scriver on September 13, 2016, 05:34:53 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 13, 2016, 05:50:05 am
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on September 13, 2016, 06:09:15 am
Post by: jocan2003 on September 13, 2016, 06:46:30 am
Now next yime i fire up these fallout game illl so lusten to fallout 1-2 music....
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 13, 2016, 07:36:17 am
Post by: Mech#4 on September 13, 2016, 07:42:29 am
Dead Money was pretty well-written IMO.
From watching a play through, I agree that the writing of Dead Money was quite good. The gameplay, what with the radios, corrosive clouds, resurrecting enemies and unkillable holograms, seemed very frustrating though. Maybe it was meant as a really steep hill to emphasis how far people will go for greed and revenge.
Honest Hearts seemed interesting but kind of short on development. Lonesome Road had a nice setting with the Divide but didn't seem to succeed with making the player care about what happened.
Post by: Silverthrone on September 13, 2016, 08:29:16 am
Honestly, if the world was a fairer place, Obsidian would get another stab at making a Fallout game. They do a better job at it, by and large. They'd be quids in the moment it was announced. The environments would be a lot more flat and drab, perhaps, but they are better at making them matter.
Also in honesty, as the years has gone by, I've felt more and more like an intruder in the Fallout circle. I am a Nirn boy, and I've really come to understand why the lads at No Mutants Allowed are like they are. I didn't play the original Fallouts when they were relatively fresh, as it happens. I didn't know English at the time, which is rather the handicap when you try to play those games. I appreciate their charm, but I don't really like to play them even today, when I can. It might simply be too late, or maybe I'm just too shallow. Hence the feeling of intrusion, like I'm a settler that has muscled in on the native's land and just now thought about it.
To chin myself up; Dogmeat. I love that dog. The game thrusts other companions in your arms every chance it gets, but I'll stand by Dogmeat. Even when he herds up every monster in the neighbourhood I was hoping to sneak past. Even though his main contribution to a lot of battles is lying around whimpering in the thick of it. Even when he runs through the pile of guff I was scrapping and scattering the lot before the winds and aaarrrgh, Dogmeeeaaat..!!
Post by: forsaken1111 on September 13, 2016, 09:06:30 am
It would be interesting to see Obsidian take on the fallout franchise again but I honestly really enjoyed the new fallouts more than the originals. I've spent WAY more time on them as well.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on September 13, 2016, 10:34:12 am
Dead money had an excellent story, but the gameplay is a fucking awful forced-stealth bullshit slog.Dead Money was pretty well-written IMO.
From watching a play through, I agree that the writing of Dead Money was quite good. The gameplay, what with the radios, corrosive clouds, resurrecting enemies and unkillable holograms, seemed very frustrating though. Maybe it was meant as a really steep hill to emphasis how far people will go for greed and revenge.
Honest Hearts seemed interesting but kind of short on development. Lonesome Road had a nice setting with the Divide but didn't seem to succeed with making the player care about what happened.
Post by: Iceblaster on September 13, 2016, 01:00:15 pm
Post by: Persus13 on September 13, 2016, 01:04:30 pm
Post by: Iceblaster on September 13, 2016, 01:05:08 pm
Post by: milo christiansen on September 13, 2016, 01:11:43 pm
The story was... Boring? (not quite the right word, but I didn't like it much), the DLC was terrible (3's DLC was generally OK, but not great. Except Broken Steel, that was awesome), the map design was just bad (invisible walls all over the place? why?).
I hope Obsidian never gets another chance at a Fallout game.
F4 has issues (the new dialog system sucks, amoung other things), so I really hope TES 6 takes a page from F3, Skyrim, or Oblivion instead of F4 (morrowind wasn't that great, the story and world were cool, but the gameplay suffers from age).
Post by: BlackFlyme on September 13, 2016, 01:22:53 pm
Post by: milo christiansen on September 13, 2016, 01:42:58 pm
Post by: Teneb on September 13, 2016, 01:58:40 pm
Am I the only one who actually liked playing dead money...? I really hate having to defend myself whenever this comes up. I can't say why, but I just like it.Yeah, I like it too. Hell, I liked it so much that I even did it in hardcore, where you take constant damage whenever you are outside, cloud or no.
Fake lights have been in all the Bethesda RPGs (since at least Oblivion, maybe Morrowind), they just work better in many ways (performance is a big one). The problem is fake lights + demolition = visual weirdness.Not Morrowind. You could do some weird lighting with differently-coloured candles.
Post by: Neonivek on September 13, 2016, 02:50:56 pm
The only thing I don't care much for Chris Avellone is how obsessed he is with Fallout just remaining a cesspit of non-civilization, preferring things never advance back to the civilization era, alongside that of being a bit darker then most care for I believe.
Honestly... I completely agree.
Things advanced from Fallout 1 to 2...
But they just put the brakes on the setting from 3-4 even when the games FORCE change... (Mass produced fresh non-radiated water is a BIG deal in Fallout... HECK it would be a HUGE deal in real life... Even we can't do that sort of crud)
It makes the setting little more then set dressing now.
Better yet in Fallout 4 they went out of their way to eliminate and reverse setting advancement...
Post by: Iceblaster on September 13, 2016, 03:07:44 pm
Post by: Glloyd on September 13, 2016, 03:39:56 pm
Post by: umiman on September 13, 2016, 04:36:42 pm
Skyrim civil war part 2: Apocalypse boogalooThis time with... drumroll... Thirteen participants! Wooo! All hail the great war of thirteen people!
Post by: Silverthrone on September 13, 2016, 04:44:19 pm
EDIT: It's like how Bohemia got tired of all the DayZkids taking the piss about the hitches in the realism, and went sci-fi/Iran invades the world shooter.
Post by: Iceblaster on September 13, 2016, 04:54:19 pm
Post by: BlackFlyme on September 13, 2016, 04:58:59 pm
Post by: Glloyd on September 13, 2016, 05:19:23 pm
Skyrim civil war part 2: Apocalypse boogalooThis time with... drumroll... Thirteen participants! Wooo! All hail the great war of thirteen people!
I meant a Fallout done by obsidian, Bethesda would butcher the fuck out of that concept. In my head the actual conflicts would take a backstage to the political machinations of the various groups, like in New Vegas.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on September 13, 2016, 08:07:12 pm
Post by: Putnam on September 13, 2016, 08:12:52 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on September 13, 2016, 09:06:04 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 13, 2016, 09:13:38 pm
Fallout if they make the same sorts of choices as with New Vegas, and that's damn good enough.
Post by: BlackFlyme on September 13, 2016, 09:22:50 pm
nad Fallout
Ah yes, the much anticipated sequel to Old World Blues, wherein the Courier must recover their lost testicles.
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 13, 2016, 09:44:42 pm
Post by: Silverthrone on September 13, 2016, 09:57:50 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Why, I am a Sneering Imperialist, indeed, and proud thereof! It is jolly good sport! Fnaarr! Good day, Sir!
♫ Savages, savages...! ♫
Post by: Iceblaster on September 14, 2016, 07:17:16 am
Post by: Krevsin on September 14, 2016, 07:49:46 am
Honestly, I think its main problem is that the game engine is terrible for the sort of gameplay they were gunning for.Dead money had an excellent story, but the gameplay is a fucking awful forced-stealth bullshit slog.Dead Money was pretty well-written IMO.
From watching a play through, I agree that the writing of Dead Money was quite good. The gameplay, what with the radios, corrosive clouds, resurrecting enemies and unkillable holograms, seemed very frustrating though. Maybe it was meant as a really steep hill to emphasis how far people will go for greed and revenge.
Honest Hearts seemed interesting but kind of short on development. Lonesome Road had a nice setting with the Divide but didn't seem to succeed with making the player care about what happened.
I loved the shit out of Dead Money's setting and story, but the gameplay just felt like something out of a different game.
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 14, 2016, 09:32:37 am
Post by: Sergius on September 14, 2016, 10:19:05 am
Honestly, I think its main problem is that the game engine is terrible for the sort of gameplay they were gunning for.Dead money had an excellent story, but the gameplay is a fucking awful forced-stealth bullshit slog.Dead Money was pretty well-written IMO.
From watching a play through, I agree that the writing of Dead Money was quite good. The gameplay, what with the radios, corrosive clouds, resurrecting enemies and unkillable holograms, seemed very frustrating though. Maybe it was meant as a really steep hill to emphasis how far people will go for greed and revenge.
Honest Hearts seemed interesting but kind of short on development. Lonesome Road had a nice setting with the Divide but didn't seem to succeed with making the player care about what happened.
I loved the shit out of Dead Money's setting and story, but the gameplay just felt like something out of a different game.
They actually messed up the stealth slog part by mistakenly giving the ghosts infinite perception. Which makes it worse I guess, because you're supposed to sneak by them (or at least stealth
Post by: Mech#4 on September 14, 2016, 10:20:03 am
The point of these two dlcs was the characters themselves but I think it's easy for the player to lose focus on them and instead see the combat, environment and setting. Ulysses does talk to you constantly but it can be brushed off as just another person with grudges and revenge who waxes lyrical about something you don't even know. I mean, that was the point of it; how something you can't even remember can affect others so much.
Joshua Graham I had pre-conceived notions about his character that don't apply at all. The Burned Man sounds like an antagonistic title, and what you hear from the legion paints a vengful spirit.
Post by: Teneb on September 14, 2016, 12:50:33 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 14, 2016, 12:57:14 pm
There's a mod that allegedly fixes it, but I played with the mod and never really noticed a difference. Maybe my Sneak was just that bad..?Honestly, I think its main problem is that the game engine is terrible for the sort of gameplay they were gunning for.Dead money had an excellent story, but the gameplay is a fucking awful forced-stealth bullshit slog.Dead Money was pretty well-written IMO.
From watching a play through, I agree that the writing of Dead Money was quite good. The gameplay, what with the radios, corrosive clouds, resurrecting enemies and unkillable holograms, seemed very frustrating though. Maybe it was meant as a really steep hill to emphasis how far people will go for greed and revenge.
Honest Hearts seemed interesting but kind of short on development. Lonesome Road had a nice setting with the Divide but didn't seem to succeed with making the player care about what happened.
I loved the shit out of Dead Money's setting and story, but the gameplay just felt like something out of a different game.
They actually messed up the stealth slog part by mistakenly giving the ghosts infinite perception. Which makes it worse I guess, because you're supposed to sneak by them (or at least stealtharchersniper them) and you can't.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 14, 2016, 01:57:24 pm
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on September 14, 2016, 02:16:06 pm
Post by: NRDL on September 14, 2016, 02:18:22 pm
No but seriously I love the Courier as a baseline character because there is just something so perfectly cool about them. I don't even really know exactly why I love them as an idea, but I do.
Yeah, definitely my favourite Fallout protagonist, simply because there's NO established backstory, no vault to come from, no tribe, no family ( unless you count the Lonesome Drifter ) and the absolute freedom of that rocks.
Simply the most badass mailman in all of video game fiction.
Post by: Fniff on September 14, 2016, 02:36:31 pm
Both ends are fine but I find the middle can be irritating, especially in Fallout 3. Okay, so you're telling me I roleplay any character I want except they have to be a sheltered vault-dweller with a dead mum and a Liam Neeson dad and I was bullied by Tunnel Snakes, who rule. I prefer the Courier; the only conditions for your character is that A. they were a mailman for a while and B. they fucked up and got captured by Benny. It would be easier to list the characters that don't fit that condition than to list the ones that do.
Also, I can't post here without bashing Fallout 3 then praising New Vegas. Wahey!
Post by: Rolan7 on September 14, 2016, 02:41:29 pm
Though 4 was a lot worse than 3 in that regard.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on September 14, 2016, 02:45:39 pm
Post by: Fniff on September 14, 2016, 03:01:33 pm
Courier's a biiiiiiiitch!Noted.
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 14, 2016, 04:38:05 pm
Courier's a biiiiiiiitch!100 Stealth, a hunting shotgun, and Shotgun Surgeon say you're wrong.
Post by: Rolan7 on September 14, 2016, 05:33:27 pm
So yeah, at least it isn't stealth-sniping...
Post by: umiman on September 14, 2016, 08:59:53 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Neonivek on September 14, 2016, 09:10:22 pm
Do they know no common sense? They will destroy us all!
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 14, 2016, 09:24:00 pm
I feel like I'm missing a meme, but relying on stealth and shotguns seems kinda bitchy :P Almost as much as TES stealth-archery.im just using it as a example, i don't
So yeah, at least it isn't stealth-sniping...
Post by: Ultimuh on September 15, 2016, 02:17:43 am
Also, for some reason, I cannot get myself to play the game for very long.
Even with Nuka World, and mods, it just donesn't catch my interest as much as Skyrim does.
Post by: BlackFlyme on September 15, 2016, 02:21:55 am
Post by: Ultimuh on September 15, 2016, 02:25:25 am
I think there have been a few that allow you to skip the raiding bit of Nuka-World, for those who don't want to be evil but still actually do Nuka-World.
That doesn't stop Preston from nagging me.
Or any other "radiant" questgivers either.
Post by: Ultimuh on September 15, 2016, 04:38:28 am
Go into data and deselect any quest. Bam, no more marker. You can ignore them to your heart's content.
Otherwise yeah, go finish the game and all the side quests to see it in its end state.
Problem is, they still exist there. Like an eyesore.
I only make it through Skyrim because of mods which makes them optional,
without the nagging feeling that I should do them ASAP.
FO4 has no mods like that.. yet.
/me sighs.
Post by: Damiac on September 22, 2016, 12:51:48 pm
The discussion on the official forums was obviously pointless, because seemingly 80% of the posters were just trolls, but even after all this time I'm just baffled...
So many people wanted to be able to have the new food/water/sleep requirements, and the added damage to/from enemies. But some people didn't want to lose fast travel and saving. Why on earth didn't they just make it optional? Has Beth ever commented on why, or do they just let their fanboy trolls scream at people asking those questions until they go away?
I mean, I know there are mods, but it's awfully silly to require mods for something that simple checkbox would have handled. It's not as if any testing needed to be done, as the mods clearly show, fast travel and saving obviously work quite fine with survival mode, and why wouldn't they?
I just checked out what was going on with FO4 after following that 'debate' six months ago, and I'm really disappointed to see they never implemented any options to toggle this crap...
Post by: Vendayn on October 03, 2016, 02:09:13 pm
Probably well known by now, and it is in mod of the month. But maybe some of you guys haven't heard about it. Its from the creator of DUST from New Vegas.
It actually makes Fallout 4 playable (for me). Its really hard (like DUST), and like DUST very much about survival. Expect to die...a lot.
It takes place I think 2-4 years or something after the nuclear war. And there is a TON of radiation on the surface.
Also, a LOT of the gameplay takes place in the subways underground (since so much radiation on surface, and so soon after war, makes sense). So it actually feels sorta like Metro, and it definitely gives off a creepy atmosphere.
Its also dark...very very dark. Which makes sense.
The mod is however very early in development, it was just released the other day.
Post by: Iceblaster on October 03, 2016, 02:19:00 pm
plus console mods is still a novel concept for me, so I kinda hope a high profile mod makes it there since it's basically a total conversion.
I mean, DUST never breached the 2 GB benchmark IIRC. Assuming FROST is the same, it could easily be on there with the exception of 'Only use this mod as it may reach two gigabytes.'
Post by: Vendayn on October 03, 2016, 02:26:10 pm
I hate to sound stupid, but is it coming to consoles? I've been watching FROST for a while and honestly, I would hate to have to wait until I can get a gaming PC to play it when I could get a console easier. Money wise, sure it's the same, but meh. I have a computer already. I plan on upgrading once my computer finally kicks it :P
plus console mods is still a novel concept for me, so I kinda hope a high profile mod makes it there since it's basically a total conversion.
I mean, DUST never breached the 2 GB benchmark IIRC. Assuming FROST is the same, it could easily be on there with the exception of 'Only use this mod as it may reach two gigabytes.'
He said when he gets the "intro" fixed it will go on consoles. Right now you have to load a save file he provides in the download page, because he hasn't finished the actual intro for the mod. Like the DUST intro.
However, he said while it will be for consoles, once the mod gets too big and/or too many scripts, the console version will stop being worked on and the more advanced version will be PC only.
Post by: Iceblaster on October 03, 2016, 03:00:11 pm
Post by: Jimmy on October 19, 2016, 05:32:48 am
Background: I played Fallout 4 soon after it came out, beating the main quest line on normal mode to experience the story. Then I went back and restarted on Survival difficulty and explored, eventually getting bored wandering around in X-01 power armour one-shotting Deathclaws whilst ticking off quests like they're a to-do list. I put it down and walked away, leaving the icon on my desktop buried under an endless series of newer shinies.
Cue coming back to discover Survival mode has had a revamp and a significant increase in difficulty. So, time to tuck in and try it out!
My Lone Wanderer is a female Chinese American named Pei Ling, a smart, independent woman who refuses to let the wasteland consume her. Her core beliefs are that society requires rule of law to function, that rule of law requires threat of force to be effective, and that sacrifice for the greater good is a necessary evil.
Her SPECIAL starting stats are 4/4/4/3/6/4/3. She's smart enough to have earned herself a major in law and a minor in bioscience, but her racial background left her an outcast in a country where anyone with an Asian face is branded a communist. She's an unashamed geek at heart, and buying her very own Mr Handy robot comes in right behind graduating university, getting married and having a child as one of the highlights of her life.
That's enough character background, now it's time to kill stuff!
Run to Vault, get frozen, watch Kellogg do nasty stuff, get unfrozen, squash some Radroaches with a security baton and I'm out!
First stop: Home. I get lucky even with a 3 Charisma and nail the check with Codsworth to find out he's a depressed kitchen appliance. I let him do his thing clearing Sanctuary of pests, then loot them for meat and activate the workshop. I clean out Sanctuary of trash, read a kid's book and become more Intelligent somehow. I squeak in Level 2 by constructing the basics of a bed and water pump, decide I'm gonna need to defend myself if I'm going to have any chance surviving in the new Commonwealth, and pick up Gun Nut 1.
I upgrade my 10mm pistol and a pipe rifle, but now I'm low on materials, especially adhesive. Time to go explore!
I go south, getting a mild dose of radiation and spending a few bullets to earn myself some Bloodbug probosces and an army helmet. I stop at the Ranger Cabin to catch a short nap and cook up some fresh Bloatfly chow, then face my first true challenge: a camp to the west containing four raiders and their attack dog.
I quickly learn the difference between the old Survival version and the new one. Trying to charge up and explode their heads in VATS at point blank range just doesn't cut it. I'm a weak, frail human being that dies if you shoot them with bullets instead of making mildly constipated grunting noises. Molotov cocktails are weapons of instant, burning death. If I want to live longer than a few seconds in combat I'm going to need to drastically change my playstyle.
In previous versions I typically went with a Commando focused build that walks around spraying anything red with a bullet hose. Today, I do something I have rarely if ever done before: I actually try to aim my gun.
Squinting down the basic sights of my 10mm, I see the faintest silhouette of a raider up by the ridgeline. I track him, wait for him to stop moving, and gently squeeze the trigger.
Cha-ching! I'm not the only one who's mortal, b&+@#es!
A short game of shoot-and-scoot later and I'm looting their bloody corpses, happy to discover a full set of leather armour amongst the gore. I wipe off the entrails and suit up, feeling like a kid on Christmas Day. I cook and eat their dog in celebration.
By now I'm hauling about as much as I can handle, so I swing back home and drop off everything but the essentials. I've hit level 3, investing into Armorer to pimp out my new leathers, rest up and go for a short hunting trip to bag me some Radstag and use their hide to upgrade my equipment. I'm a regular Bear Grylls, yo.
Next on the list is the inevitable trip southeast to Red Rocket Truck Stop. You're a mutt, Dogmeat, but I'll take you and get you to drag my crap around until I recruit someone—anyone—better.
Something strange happens, or rather fails to happen. I don't get ambushed by mole rats. Paranoid and slightly disappointed that my dinner plans are spoiled, I go pillage their rear hole instead. Inside, aside from the standard fusion core from the mole rat den, I score one more nice find: a glow sighted hair trigger pipe rifle with a large magazine and marksman's stock. I swap out the hair trigger for my own pipe rifle's powerful receiver, slap a long ported barrel on it with the last of my adhesive back at the workstation, and retire my 10mm since I've used all but about two clips worth of the 150 rounds of ammo I started with.
A long rest and a breakfast of day-old reheated molerat and I'm off to clear around my second base. I clip the Bloodbugs off a Brahmin corpse to practice getting my sights on my new weapon and then swing north, grabbing a .44 handcannon and a whopping 5 rounds of ammo for it. My security baton gets some action bashing in a few Molerat skulls, then I sneak up on a small camp of raiders and get Dirty Harry and his five friends out. I've got a full crit meter and I figure there's no better way to get this party started.
It's loud, messy and gloriously overkill. I'm pretty sure there's too many eyeballs in that red goop on the ground, but I figure the raider must have had some spares. Their junk goes on Dogmeat, their ammo goes in my pack and their dog goes in my belly. Take-out, wasteland style.
I dump the .44 since it's a paperweight without more ammo, then stop for a short rest in an abandoned house close enough to Concord to enjoy the aroma of rotting Brahmin. I then inch into Concord proper to sniff around. Smells like Preston; I think I prefer the Brahmin. My pipe rifle clears the front of the museum, but I skip going inside because, meh, I'm sure they'll be fine.
I do a few hauls of loot back to Red Rocket, clearing most of Concord and the sub-areas besides the underground tunnels. Behind the museum there's a campsite where I spot a Yao Guai feasting on the remains of a pair of scavengers. I hum the Circle of Life from the Lion King as I snipe it from a nearby building, cook it and eat it.
Finally I sigh, roll my eyes and shrug my shoulders, dumping all but the essentials in preparation for a trip to the museum. Headshots for the two on the upper balcony, a half dozen in the chest of the one that charges me with a pool cue while the museum exhibit natters on about lobster-backed jackanapes. I've lucked into a pair of frag grenades during my looting spree of Concord which make short work of the two raiders in the mural room and the pair outside the door to Preston. I endure his exposition and present the fusion core I liberated earlier. Now comes the tricky bit.
Up to the roof and I inch forward in my ever-so-stealthy T-45 suit. I stash the minigun in favour of drawing my old reliable pipe rifle, nailing the raider across the street with a sneak attack to the face. There's no way in hell I'm going down to street level, power armour or not. Instead I cower like a frightened little girl behind the wall, popping up every second to take another shot at the raider lemmings. Finally the main event arrives, finishes off the remainder of the mooks and realises it can't fly. The Deathclaw tries to dodge, weave and make disparaging remarks about my parentage, but I just calmly give it a few hundred new .38 sized orifices until it dies.
Then I cook and eat it.
By now I'm level 10, picking up Gun Nut, Armorer, Chemist, Locksmith, Hacker, Rifleman, Sneak, Science! and Rifleman 2. I walk Preston and his posse back to Sanctuary, sort them out for glue production and scavenging, then get Tenpines Bluff from Preston marked on my map. I park my T-45 at Sanctuary for now, since I've only scavenged one and a half power cores for it and don't want to blow them on walking my ass halfway across the map. I make a few extra trips back to Concord and loot the place bare, raider corpses included.
This seems like a good point to break the narrative, and I'll conclude by saying that the difference the new Survival mode makes to my playstyle is really fun. I've continued this game further than I've written, with lots of funny emergent stories coming out of my adventures. Hopefully I'll get the chance to write them down too, but for now I'm having a blast taking the scenic route and cursing my stupidity when I get my ass handed to me as punishment.
Post by: Dirtcopter77 on October 19, 2016, 01:32:20 pm
(Snip)
That's a great write-up. I always wanted to try Survival Mode, but it's save system turned me off of it. I loved New Vegas's hardcore mode with jsawyer.esp, but I also like being able to quit when I want without losing up to half an hour of progress. Not to mention the risk of getting killed instantly by mines, mini nukes or just getting stuck in the ground and losing progress that way. I wish they made that part optional.
Post by: TheDarkStar on October 19, 2016, 05:08:35 pm
Post by: Jimmy on October 20, 2016, 12:36:05 am
If you're having trouble with mines, the Sneak perk makes you immune with enough points invested into it. If something's shooting mini-nukes at you, you deserve what you get. Enemies only get a limited amount of ammo for them anyhow, so do your best to dodge it. If you're clipping through the floor, console command for PC is your friend. Toggle 'tcl' and you can walk out of any glitchy locations.
Post by: Neonivek on October 20, 2016, 12:57:25 am
I found that even on Very Hard, the difficulty of the game goes up enough that you can find situations where the best thing to do is not fight or where you have to prioritize which groups of enemies you engage. The enemies don't level up quite as fast as you, though, so even when you start seeing deathclaws and minigun or mininuke supermutants everywhere, you can usually deal with them. Powerarmor also messes up the game balance; if there was a mod to balance power armor a bit more (better movement/stealth when not using it, higher costs for using it, higher crafting costs, etc), I'd be happy.
Power Armor cannot be balanced period. It is set up to be the game breaker.
Because all encounters are balanced as if you were out of power armor.
Likewise if you were truly slower in power armor then some encounters would likewise become MUCH harder due to the game's... other balance issues.
Post by: jocan2003 on October 20, 2016, 01:10:18 am
But sadly, my game reached a critical point where i crash to often to be enjoyable. But yeah, look like i really did hit the jackpot there, oh and im level 50, yup raider are a dangerous pack, better scout, see who has what as weapon and priorize your target. Hell even ghouls take bout 15% of my HP per hit WHILE im in power armor! ghouls!
But seriously if you want fun, use that survival setting mod, allows you to balance the game to your liking. Like bullet sponge enemy? crank your damage up, want more challenge, crank ENEMIES damage. Anyway i used it because the save setting was shit, as a father sometime i need to close the game soon, or get distracted at the wrong time and well, fall back to the last time i slept? no thank you.
linky : http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/14650/?
Post by: Neonivek on October 20, 2016, 01:11:53 am
Quote
I beg to differ, i dont know WTF i did, but even in when im not in power armor i get my ass handed to me hard time
Because you went off the beaten path. The game attempts to railroad you a lot more then the entire series. (basically easy - hard is... Left to right, Top to bottom)
Post by: UXLZ on October 20, 2016, 02:03:31 am
Post by: Neonivek on October 20, 2016, 02:07:07 am
New Vegas had a bit of railroadiness to it at times as well. I can't remember what they were called, but those fucking flying wasp things. If I recall I remember hearing that they were used as a sort of "soft barrier."
The absolute start of New Vegas was railroaded.
After a few levels and loot it opens up almost completely.
Post by: UXLZ on October 20, 2016, 02:12:09 am
If you tried to stray too far from the path you'd run into those insanely powerful wasp/hornet things, which would destroy you.
Post by: Neonivek on October 20, 2016, 02:13:31 am
The absolute start? I'll admit that it was a pretty long game, but you were pretty railroaded until you hit New Vegas proper which was quite a long journey (along with several places you needed to stop into along the way.)
If you tried to stray too far from the path you'd run into those insanely powerful wasp/hornet things, which would destroy you.
You really never had to go to New Vegas it was just a really good idea to (due to... metagaming reasons...)
Though to admit if you don't do side quest stuff it certainly will feel like your railroaded there.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on October 20, 2016, 02:36:25 am
Post by: Vendayn on October 20, 2016, 02:38:03 am
Fallout 3 and 4 have a much more open world, and you can go pretty much anywhere to a degree. But there aren't many cliffs (so many cliffs and linear pathways in NV that you have to go around) and you can go to one end of the map to the other and still do fine. Except at least in Fallout 4, there are dangerous areas obviously, more than Fallout 3. But it still feels far more open than NV did, in terms of the world design.
With that said, Fallout New Vegas has DUST. Best mod for F:NV. Totally makes it playable for me. But now Fallout 4 has FROST, so now I'm playing that.
Post by: Neonivek on October 20, 2016, 02:47:37 am
Post by: Glloyd on October 20, 2016, 04:00:03 am
I dunno, I felt Fallout New Vegas was far more linear than Fallout 3 and 4 are.
More linear?
Not sure if you're just trolling or not, so I'll just repost an old meme here.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
NV was vastly less linear, especially in regards to the main story. It had its factions that were actually well fleshed out, (unlike FO4) within which there were a number of optional missions that would influence the outcome of the final game. You could even just say fuck it and do your own thing. At the same time, you could put off going to NV as long as you wanted, as there were an insane amount of sidequests outside the city (a number of which were very good, and most of which were better than the radiant quest garbage of FO4). You didn't even need to go to NV to gamble, there was that Vikki and Vance casino you could gamble in near the starting town. I don't think I even got to NV on my first playthrough until I was around level 17 or so, I spent a ton of time doing sidequests and exploring in the south of the map before I went there.
I dunno how it's less linear in your eyes tbh. It was well developed enough that there were different paths that you could influence the way you liked, or just put off while you do sidequests or play the 2 good DLCs. FO4 was literally just: leave vault > kill raiders > go to diamond city > kill ghouls > find the institute > faff about with radiant quests until you're buddy buddy with a faction > enjoy your unsatisfying ending, so maybe because there was nothing to the main quest it felt less linear? And FO3's map was at least as linear as NV's. Remember trying to navigate the DC ruins? It was just walking down subway lines between small areas.
Post by: scriver on October 20, 2016, 05:31:47 am
Whereas in f4 the game is technically open to you immediately, though I would set the real opening at after... Deathclaw town (Concord?). This makes it less linear. I still prefer NV's structure (though after playing through the start a bsxillion times I am super tired of killing power bangers for hours before you get to the fun stuff (killing legionairies). Less linear does not automatically mean better.
Post by: Putnam on October 20, 2016, 05:33:09 am
Post by: Neonivek on October 20, 2016, 05:43:56 am
Christ, getting to Vegas is, like, the first 10-20% of the game, I cannot by any means regard the whole game as linear just because of that.
It can be best. There is very little stopping you from going straight there except Boredom.
Post by: scriver on October 20, 2016, 05:52:38 am
Christ, getting to Vegas is, like, the first 10-20% of the game, I cannot by any means regard the whole game as linear just because of that.
The wording was "more linear".
Post by: Neonivek on October 20, 2016, 07:41:12 am
Originally they were created to simulate the sort of conditions THEIR vaulters might experience... They were sometimes cruel or even deadly but there was something in there.
But now it just seems that Vault-Tec were just sick SOBs. (Especially after New Vegas... Which had the worst vaults in the entire series... and I am including Fallout Tactics)
Post by: Jimmy on October 20, 2016, 09:03:11 am
Favourite Companion: Nick Valentine
The combination of thick Boston accent and hard-boiled private detective attitude mixed with a sarcastic sense of humour and brilliant one-liners make Nick Valentine my favourite partner in the Commonwealth. The added benefit is that Nick has no affiliation with any faction, meaning he has no secret agenda other than his own moral compass. Plus he's one of the few companions capable of reminiscing about pre-war times, with Hancock being a ticking time-bomb waiting to go feral after one more bender, Curie growing up as a shut-in spending the majority of her existence in a single room running experiments, and Codsworth being a neurotic kitchen appliance more than a friend.
Most Disliked Companion: Dogmeat
Screw you and your crappy point-guzzling perk line, fleabag.
Favourite Faction: The Institute
Everyone assumes the Institute is the bad guy. In truth, it's not the Institute but the leadership that's to blame, specifically Father's leadership. The Generation 3 synth is an abject failure as a production line and should be ceased immediately. Sadly, nobody at the Institute has the power to override Father's fanatical devotion to this failed experiment, except for the Lone Wanderer. They can issue the command to halt Generation 3 production and return to improving the Generation 1 and 2 models, which show none of the inherent flaws involving free will and self-awareness. As leader of the Institute, the Lone Wanderer can unite the remaining factions under their leadership, expand the Minutemen to serve as a peacekeeping force, and most importantly turn the Synth Retention Bureau into a Ethics Oversight Bureau once Generation 3 synths are no longer being produced. Plus their skin for the X-01 power armor is wicked cool.
Most Disliked Faction: The Railroad
Already close to death, the Railroad is a one-trick pony focused on 'freeing synths' without any other plans made to benefit the Commonwealth or humanity as a whole. The Institute work tirelessly to advance humanity towards a better future, the Brotherhood seek to preserve lost knowledge and technology to rebuild the world, the Minutemen focus on helping the common man with day-to-day survival, and the Railroad... get their asses kicked for no good reason. They're already critically wounded as an organisation, reeling from heavy losses and losing safe-houses every day. They survive by virtue of having a core of exceptionally intelligent idealists and one pre-war AI that gives them an edge over their enemies, but that doesn't make for an effective group to lead the Commonwealth into a better future. Once their goal of destroying the Institute is complete, their own reason for existence is gone as well. The Railroad is a blip in history, useful for their purpose but failing to have any potential to grow into something bigger.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 20, 2016, 09:06:34 am
Dogmeat's probably mechanically the best, thanks to the perks.
BoS is both the best and worst faction. Sinister spin on a faction that's still the best around, no one's gonna ever keep them down.
You get the impression that as the games go on the vault experiments make less and less sense?Yeah possibly, though we also got a lot more information about vault experiences in 3 onward. They became massively more common, which is sorta cool. That's one change I'm okay with :P
Originally they were created to simulate the sort of conditions THEIR vaulters might experience... They were sometimes cruel or even deadly but there was something in there.
But now it just seems that Vault-Tec were just sick SOBs. (Especially after New Vegas... Which had the worst vaults in the entire series... and I am including Fallout Tactics)
Re: NV
I was OOC personally insulted at the existence of Vegas when I first played, so that character never went. I just traveled and fought the Legion instead, after seeing the massacre - why would I hunt down the fop who shot me, people need my help.
I didn't finish that game (which would require visiting Vegas eventually) but was impressed at the world. I kinda rage quit over the horrible DR system, though, which makes automatic weapons pure masochism. Even if the enemies have a lot of bare skin (Legionnaires).
Heh technically my first character wandered north and got eaten by deathclaws. But yeah it completely opens up after Primm.
Also, fuck cazadores. Particularly using plasma - maddening! Their poison is subtle yet deadly, too!
Post by: Damiac on October 20, 2016, 12:40:52 pm
I mean... do the people making these games understand what an automatic weapon actually is? Yes, you get slightly lower projectile velocities, resulting in slightly less damage and slightly less accuracy, but it's not because of some magic penalty system to make automatic weapons worse. It's because some of the pressure created by the explosion of the gunpowder is used to get the next round in place to shoot, then fire it. That's a tiny fraction of the overall energy.
Full auto weapons should require high skills to use accurately, but they should always be terrifyingly damaging, just like in FO2 (and real life).
I guess it's just one of the symptoms of the larger problem of human enemies somehow becoming extremely bullet resistant as you go through the game. Oh, that raider is part of a really dangerous gang, so of course his head takes 90 bullets before he dies... In FO2 I could walk up to a high level gang member with my new character, and shoot him in the face with a shotgun at point blank range, with no skill whatsoever in shotguns, and he would die. Messily. Because it takes no skill to shoot someone in the head at point blank range, and nobody's head can take a shotgun blast.
Now, you stick that guy in power armor that's a different story. But that's ok, then as a player I know what to expect, and it makes some sense.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 20, 2016, 01:27:51 pm
Which would be one thing if *power armor* was shrugging off blows, except that pretty much everything has some amount of damage reduction. I get that spraying the Brotherhood of Steel or a Deathclaw with low-caliber rounds might be unwise. But Caesar's Legion? It ought to shred through their stupid luddite cosplay armor... but nope.
I guess automatic weapons would be better against cazadors, but at that point I was too used to focusing on spike damage. And for all I know they have a bunch of DR too for some reason, I mean they're already every other sort of aggravating.
There was a great perk that reduced DR for both you and enemies, but I think it was from that More Perks mod. That's a good mod.
Post by: Draignean on October 20, 2016, 02:11:01 pm
I agree with most of that to some extent, but SMGs were still viable in 3. In NV they're absolute trash, and it's specifically because of that DR system they were so proud of for some reason.
Well, they were proud of the DT/DR system because it was basically the same system from FO2, which wasn't easy to port over into Bethesda's sequel. Of course, by basically the same, I mean utterly stripped down and largely ineffective, but that's what you get for not having actual damage types. Bleurgh.
Automatic weapons were trash because automatic weapons were trash, not because of the DT thing. Granted, they weren't perfect in FO2; miniguns were the most annoying thing there. They would either plink someone in power armor, or instantly tear them in half on a crit, no in between.
Totally agree on a damage re-balance to automatic weapons, but I miss the DT/DR system, so I'm a bit defensive about it.
Post by: Damiac on October 20, 2016, 02:21:29 pm
It's easier to use a non-automatic (less perk investment required for competency)
Slightly more powerful, slightly more accurate, this is important for long distance shooting like sniper rifles.
An automatic weapon should be the weapon of choice for anyone focusing on the appropriate weapon type. Of course, since in FO4 automatic weapons are their own category this is a problem. Really it shouldn't work that way, it should use the basic skill (Machine pistols use pistol skill, Assault rifle uses rifle skill), etc.
Even if they want to be more gamey about it, they should at least make automatic weapons worth considering. As it is, the moment you put an automatic receiver on a weapon, you ruin it.
Post by: Rolan7 on October 20, 2016, 02:27:18 pm
Totally agree on a damage re-balance to automatic weapons, but I miss the DT/DR system, so I'm a bit defensive about it.Wanamingo mine kicked my ass... I had no idea about DT/DR at the time, so those creatures just seemed absurdly tanky.
To be clear, my problem with damage threshold in NV is that they gave it to, like, everything. Specifically that they gave it to Legionaries. Shooting them in their exposed shins should have bypassed it :P
Post by: Tack on October 20, 2016, 04:59:18 pm
Post by: Jimmy on October 20, 2016, 05:28:16 pm
Auto vs. non-auto depends on your playstyle. Automatic weapons are designed to be shot from the hip, no scoped aiming required. Their perk tree focuses on this aspect, making for a character that is extremely mobile and moving constantly to avoid return fire. Non-auto and semi-automatics are more about ending combat with one or two good shots, but they're not going to be as accurate if you're shooting from the hip. It's more built for a player that engages from long range with a sniper rifle, and maybe carries a shotgun as a backup.
Personally I enjoyed using automatic weapons in Fallout 4 on my first playthrough, since more dakka is a lot of fun. Survival mode necessitates a different approach, since every bullet costs weight now, meaning you want the most bang for your buck.
Post by: Iceblaster on November 26, 2016, 07:32:38 pm
I do have one question though! Where exactly can I find a list of all the various items Codworth and Dogmeat can wear?
http://imgur.com/a/DItXh
Post by: Bluexdog on November 26, 2016, 07:33:24 pm
Post by: Iceblaster on November 26, 2016, 07:39:14 pm
Post by: Silverthrone on November 26, 2016, 08:39:27 pm
There is a list in the Dogmeat article below:
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Dogmeat_(Fallout_4)
Truth be told, the heavy dog armour looks rather like a saddle.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I wish I could feed him a diet of meat, buffout and mutagens and grow him into a giant wolf that I could use as a mount. Imagine... The Lone Survivor, charging into battle on their ferocious panzerdog...
Post by: Jimmy on November 27, 2016, 03:13:41 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 27, 2016, 08:16:16 am
Post by: Iceblaster on November 27, 2016, 08:22:28 am
Post by: Grim Portent on November 27, 2016, 06:58:06 pm
I wish I could feed him a diet of meat, buffout and mutagens and grow him into a giant wolf that I could use as a mount. Imagine... The Lone Survivor, charging into battle on their ferocious panzerdog...
I've never understood why they don't put some mutant or robotic horses into the game to supplement fast travel and footslogging. I remember when I first saw the Giddyup Buttercup ads in FO3 and thought 'Hey, maybe there's a horse sized robot that I could find somewhere,' and I've always been sadly disappointed since.
Post by: Teneb on November 27, 2016, 07:05:22 pm
Not only that, but the engine totally supports mounts since it is basically a slightly improved version of the one used in Skyrim.I wish I could feed him a diet of meat, buffout and mutagens and grow him into a giant wolf that I could use as a mount. Imagine... The Lone Survivor, charging into battle on their ferocious panzerdog...
I've never understood why they don't put some mutant or robotic horses into the game to supplement fast travel and footslogging. I remember when I first saw the Giddyup Buttercup ads in FO3 and thought 'Hey, maybe there's a horse sized robot that I could find somewhere,' and I've always been sadly disappointed since.
Post by: Egan_BW on November 27, 2016, 07:13:08 pm
Post by: Iceblaster on November 27, 2016, 07:13:17 pm
Plus, I mean. Fallout purists will cry. Everywhere :P
Post by: NullForceOmega on November 27, 2016, 07:27:23 pm
Post by: Iceblaster on November 27, 2016, 07:45:18 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on November 27, 2016, 07:46:18 pm
Post by: Silverthrone on November 27, 2016, 07:51:54 pm
Mounted combat was fun in Skyrim, but there were much more space, generally. Less rubble and landmines to get caught on. Even so, it would have been great to have the option. The lore does state that horses have died out, but that is, as far as we know, only in the west and on the east coast. It would not be a very big retcon to have a few survivor's ancestors knocking around somewhere, or at least mutant horses. A vault taking in a few thoroughbreads for reasons unknown, perhaps? Robots and all sorts of other mutants would do as well. A motorcycle, perhaps, or even just a plain old bike.
Post by: Iceblaster on November 27, 2016, 08:04:59 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 27, 2016, 08:37:32 pm
Post by: Teneb on November 27, 2016, 08:39:00 pm
Ride a god damn yao gai.No. Fuck that. Deathclaw Chariot or go home.
Post by: Culise on November 28, 2016, 01:30:38 am
Post by: Flying Dice on November 28, 2016, 01:48:31 am
Ride a god damn yao gai.Ride a god damn yaoi guy. :^)
Post by: Neonivek on November 28, 2016, 01:52:17 am
I'd give in but the expansion content doesn't QUITE hit the areas I'd like it to (I consider it... Less worthwhile then the other expansions)
Post by: Rolan7 on November 28, 2016, 01:57:33 am
Cazador Air Cavalry, incoming.I hate you :P
Post by: Neonivek on November 28, 2016, 02:03:22 am
Fallout 2 was 1 generation (or 2... maybe) removed from the first and things changed.
Then again... Fallout 4 did destroy the ONE good thing they introduced in Fallout 3 that was good and interesting... So maybe I shouldn't ask them to progress the story.
Post by: Krevsin on November 28, 2016, 04:30:25 am
One might ascribe that to the fact that the Elder Scrolls are set firmly within the Medieval Stasis. However, already with Fallout 4 you can see they are taking a similar approach to Fallout. There is nothing connecting Fallout 3 and Fallout 4, apart from some characters from 3 being present (Macready and elder Maxson). While the Brotherhood has changed I believe that may be more in service to the plot rather than it being indicative of any real change. Also the super mutants are exactly the same as they were in Fallout 3 only now they're green. And have puppies.
Expect the next Bethesda Fallout game to take place an indeterminate-but-roughly-200-years length of time after the bombs fell and it to feature a Brotherhood of Steel which is somewhat militaristic, but open to outsiders and no mention of what's happened in either the Commonwealth or the DC ruins in the long run. Also super mutants as great big hulking brutes obsessed with stockpiling gore instead of actually interesting.
It's a shame because there's actually potential for a very fascinating world to evolve on the East Coast. A fledgling empire of the Eastern Brotherhood of Steel backed in resources by the people of the Capital Wasteland (think Heinlein) who have either expanded successfully to the Commonwealth to the north or have been blocked by an enemy who refuses to crack in the Minutemen or the Institute. Makes for some nice political tension.
There's potential but given Bethesda's track record of how it keeps canon I doubt it'll ever happen. Or that we'll ever see what has become of either the Commonwealth or the Capital Wasteland.
Post by: Iceblaster on December 02, 2016, 09:25:44 am
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 02, 2016, 09:31:46 am
(I don't get the Piper thing people have either.)
Post by: Iceblaster on December 02, 2016, 09:45:03 am
I'm sure if someone lied about her though, she'd get all angry about the lies in the paper too. Seems like the person to do that :P
Post by: SOLDIER First on December 02, 2016, 09:46:14 am
...what? :p
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 02, 2016, 09:47:49 am
Edit: cute I'll grant you, but funny is completely about perspective, and mostly she seems like a mouthy east-coast dame who actually does not know when to shut the hell up to me.
Post by: Iceblaster on December 02, 2016, 09:50:23 am
Yeah, you're doing an interview, but even the most diehard reporter won't push a question if the person really doesn't wanna answer. Maaaybe I'm thinking too much into this though.
If you're having fun now, just wait until you start asking yourself why a post apocalyptic city in a baseball stadium has a detective, and more importantly why this becomes a primary focal point of the story.
Simple! Diamond City Security doesn't do missing persons. Therefore, someone took up the mantle of doing that. And as they have a monopoly on that whole thing, they can charge whatever they want.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 02, 2016, 09:52:24 am
Post by: Iceblaster on December 02, 2016, 09:54:48 am
Not being rude, genuinely curious.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 02, 2016, 10:24:55 am
So in general it comes down to this:
1 : How does it relate to the player (Bethesda pretty much has this handled, for better or worse.)
2 : How does it relate to the story (Bethesda drops the ball on this one fairly frequently.)
3 : How does it relate to other elements of the game (and here is where they don't even try, why the hell does Captain Ironsides even exist again?)
That's is the simplest way for me to explain how I perceive the 'depth' of elements of a game.
Post by: Iceblaster on December 02, 2016, 10:29:53 am
Why have FISTO? Why have the Bright Brotherhood? Hell, why have the entirety of OWB? Because it's a fun thing the devs put in because it's a quest idea they had and it fit in a loose way. Yeah, you could argue Ironsides is out of place because he's a sentry bot, but if there'd been a terminal saying 'he was reprogrammed' it wouldn't matter. Honestly, I found the quest pretty fun and I loved the characters it had. Yeah, it wasn't a masterpiece, but it was fun.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 02, 2016, 10:37:07 am
The problem with Ironsides, and almost every other side-quest element of F4 is that it ties into nothing at all, it is completely encapsulated in itself with no outside meaning (aside from some off-hand comments from a DJ, where have we heard that before?) I'm not knocking the quest, it was fun and had an amusing if mostly useless reward, and the robots were rather funny. Still no depth tho'.
I'm not trying to indicate that every piece of the game has to flawlessly integrate into everything else, but most of the game should be interrelated, not stand alone nonsense.
Edit: I mean, most of my complaints about F4 are the same ones I had about F3, too much random meaningless stuff, not enough actual functioning world.
Post by: Iceblaster on December 02, 2016, 10:42:21 am
While there is no overarching story to every quest, the quests you get at least feel memorable. I can't for the life of me name many of the quests I've done a bunch in NV, but every quest I've done in 4 at the moment feels pretty memorable. Yeah, it may just be because it's recent, but that's no the point. Only real quests I can point to by the name in NV are 'Bright Brotherhood' and 'Wing Dang Atomic Tango'(?). The game's great, but there's not really much to remember on my part.
Plus, how would you tie in much of the quests anyway? NV had the same thing with Mr New Vegas just making comments based on your resolution the quest and if you're lucky the quest will get a sentence of dialogue after the end so you can pat yourself on the back. i don't mind every quest not having effects on the world. I mean, is helping a group of robots who believe they're sailors on a ship really gonna impact the story in any meaningful way? Is the BoS, Railroad, Institute, or Minutemen gonna benefit from them being crashed into a tower at the end?
Post by: Teneb on December 02, 2016, 10:44:46 am
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 02, 2016, 10:48:43 am
That is what I mean by it being related, what do we learn about the world of the Commonwealth from Ironsides? Nothing, at all, even the salvagers are faceless throwaways who exist only for the purpose of the quest. I don't need Ironsides to be individually important to the story, I'd like for his quest to actually build on the world through whatever means, even if it's nothing but some intel on the Institute or anything really, and not be lolsorandom.
Post by: Iceblaster on December 02, 2016, 10:55:42 am
Not everything ties into the shadow-y cabal. The Institute don't just leave evidence behind. If an operative dies while doing stuff, then yeah it might make sense, but if the operatives were successful and perhaps using the Captain to gain information while seeming innocuous, then why would there be evidence of their tampering? They don't seem to like going guns blazing unless it's to recover synths or technology they want, so when sending someone they take enough precautions to go in and get out.
I understand wanting that, but it seems a bit strange to want it from Ironsides. Not everything needs to have in depth characterization or everything having some relation to the main quest.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 02, 2016, 11:03:44 am
When I play Fallout I feel like all the information I'm learning has some meaning, that it makes the world more complete. Same for Fallout 2, NV tries very hard, but there is something sort of lacking somehow (to me, it really does try, but it doesn't seem to line up.) F3 and F4? They feel like some silly ad-libs game, where stuff was just tossed out at random and then fleshed out without regard to how they work together.
But everyone is going to take something different away from every game, and I don't expect other people to feel the way I do. It took me years to come to terms with Bethesda's approach because it didn't feel anything like Fallout to me, but I can accept that they are going their own way with it, I just wish they'd take a bit more care with the franchise.
Post by: Arbinire on December 02, 2016, 04:06:02 pm
In the Bethesda entries they make a point to say you're the main character and the world revolves around you...which works in TES, because those are games about the power/god fulfillment. It falls flat in the Fallout universe though because, like NullForce says, that kind of driving point has no depth. Everything has to be at face value in situation because the world now revolves around your character, instead of your character evolving in the world.
Post by: KingofstarrySkies on December 02, 2016, 04:33:06 pm
Two cents: dispensed
Post by: Krevsin on December 02, 2016, 05:55:17 pm
A good example of what I mean by that is the two weirdly similar big story events in Fallout 3 and 4
Spoiler: the two weirdly similar big story events in Fallout 3 and 4 (click to show/hide)
But the thing is I do enjoy Fallout 4. I absolutely abhor its main plot, the side quests which are all largely a variation on "go there, kill shit, bring back something" and its worldbuilding which leaves just so much to be desired, what I do love is turning off the quests and just building settlements.
Because then, the game stops being this hamfisted attempt at telling an entirely dull and predictable mystery story which feels entirely out of place with the surroundings and becomes something actually interesting.
Fallout 4 when you're just trying to build your settlements becomes a tale of trying to rebuild after a nuclear apocalypse. You start off with a small quaint suburb, and when you run out of resources you are forced to venture out, go scavenging for resources. It genuinely makes you feel like a scavenger salvaging bits from the remains of the old world in order to rebuild a new one. Scouring abandoned buildings for office fans and glass bottles and lightbulbs, fighting with raiders who have built a little fortress from the salvage, then taking whatever useful thing that's left and going back to your settlements to build more houses, more farms, more shops and thus slowly but surely build up something new from the ashes of the old.
For an example of what I'm talking about here's the tale from my latest playthrough. I went to Diamond City not because some meth-head old lady told me to, I went there because I grew tired of grabbing random bits of scrap to get the materials I needed and decided I'd be better off purchasing shipments. On the way there I got ambushed by raiders around Lexington, cleared out some settlements that were on the way and bought a spare dog from a random encounter. not because someone told me to but because they were an immediate threat and a longer-term obstacle between me and completing my dream of turning Sanctuary into a housing block estate. Then I figured out I didn't have enough money to buy all the shipments I wanted so I did a few odd jobs for people and then realized that one big shipment of stuff that I needed wasn't even available from the merchants in Diamond City so I made the perilous trek through the ruins of Boston to another town I heard of from a random guard in Diamond City, Goodneighbor. Then I carefully made my way back home to Sanctuary Hills, avoiding raider hotspots, listening to my environment and running like hell from any super mutants I saw (suiciders are no fun). All of this happened entirely organically, no quest was needed, nothing about a missing son or any of that. Merely the desire to build some more lovely lovely housing blocks on the Sanctuary Hills Council Estate And Post-Apocalyptic Society.
Then I realized that with my level of Community Leader I could've made shops of 2nd level and they too sell shipments and there was no need for that entirely self-motivated odyssey through the wastes.
What bugs me is just how easily settlements could be used to make the game actually interesting if they were a bit more in-depth and made a more central part of the plot. Because then when you've built up a small empire, you would actually feel threatened when that empire gets destabilized by the Institute or the BoS or whoever. You'd actually care because it wasn't just some random person whose life got ruined by the Institute/whoever, it'd be the settlements you've spent literal hours building and scavenging resources for. also because the world isn't procedurally generated there's some actual points of interest and you can actually put in quest hooks unlike so many survivalcrafting games
So what I'm trying to say with this meandering overly long textwall of a 12AM post/rant is, there's a good game and even narrative hidden under the actual gameplay and plot of Fallout 4. You just have to turn off the quest markers and embrace settlement building to get there. And also turn off fast travel but you already knew that Bethesda's fast travel system is kind of shit and makes you ignore vast swathes of the world in their entirety, right? (seriously do fast travel like in Morrowind. I want post-apoc busses from one settlement to another in exchange for some caps. The settlements in Fallout 4 are perfectly placed too, there's no quest location* that's too far away from a settlement or two. Have a brief canter through the game world, you might see something interesting and/or pretty.)
*excluding the one that has you go in the center of the Glowing Sea which is pretty much just a radioactive wasteland with nothing of interest for miles around. (but there's a settlement on its edge and walking through the Glowing Sea to a given goal is like 5 minutes real-time tops)
Post by: Jimmy on December 02, 2016, 08:46:39 pm
What about Dunwich Borers?
Actually, I'd really love to see more of this in the official lore.
So far, to my knowledge, we've seen references in Fallout 3 (Dunwich Building) and Point Lookout (The Dark Heart of Blackhall), as well as Fallout 4 (Dunwich Borers). Sure, it might just be a throwaway stub in homage to Lovecraft, but I'd love to see a future game or DLC expand on it. Hell, Far Harbor would have been perfect, if you dumped the Child of Atom cult and repaced it with a Dunwich cult instead. Admittedly it might not mesh completely with the DLC story, but I'm sure you get my overall gist of the idea.
Post by: nenjin on December 02, 2016, 08:55:05 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
For me it'd be genre breaking. FO4, despite super mutants and ghouls and what have you, is a not a fantasy world. There's no magic that I recall. If you right a real story around it, it's got to make sense for the world. And the threat of extra-dimensional beings and psychic power would grate against the sci-fi but ultimately realistic setting.
Wait, has there ever been psychic powers in any FO games? I seem to recall some Vault experiments with it...if FO made psionics part of the setting and really ran with it, I'd be ok with some real Lovecraft storylines. Right now thought it just feels bolted on to the edge of the setting.
Post by: Neonivek on December 02, 2016, 08:57:37 pm
You see those brain bucket robots shoot psionic blasts that disable your head from time to time.
But that is as far as psionics really go. It isn't something for ordinary people to tap into.
Post by: Teneb on December 02, 2016, 09:04:02 pm
-In FO1: Four confirmed ones in the Master's Lair (Wiggum, Lucy, Moore, Gideon).
-In FO2: The Arroyo shaman (who can communicate with you through dreams), Melchior in Redding, and Keeng Ra'at (a giant albino mole rat).
-In FO3: Calvert in Point Lookout, Bloomseer Poplar in the hippie grove, AntAgonizer, and maybe Harlod.
-In Tactics: The Beastlords tribals can control animals with their minds.
-In NV: The Forecaster, and various nightkin inside Black Rock Cave.
-In FO4: Mama Murphy, and Lorenzo Cabbot.
Post by: Neonivek on December 02, 2016, 09:07:51 pm
Quote
Mama Murphy
Uhhhhhhh... well... Unless you find out more about her, then you find out she is more... shall we say... Forgetful than psychic.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 02, 2016, 09:13:12 pm
Okay I'm just looking that up
...
I still have no idea what you're talking about
Post by: Neonivek on December 02, 2016, 09:47:57 pm
What
Okay I'm just looking that up
...
I still have no idea what you're talking about
It is in logs for the most part. Basically she isn't REALLY psychic.
Post by: BFEL on December 02, 2016, 11:32:22 pm
Specifically: http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11542/?tab=2&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Ffallout4%2Fajax%2Fmodfiles%2F%3Fid%3D11542&pUp=1
This is the mod that gets rid of Survival modes stupid narcolepsy feature and lets you once more save in a manner befitting a fucking Bethesda game.
Or it SHOULD.
Anyone else use this and maybe know what I'm doing wrong? So far tried having the full "Interface" folder intact in the Data folder, which just results in the game refusing to start up, and taking the "main menu" file out and just having that in Data (which does exactly nothing)
The file is a "shockwave flash" file so maybe I need a flash update or something?
Post by: Reudh on December 03, 2016, 02:39:03 am
Post by: Jimmy on December 03, 2016, 03:18:36 am
Post by: Krevsin on December 03, 2016, 04:20:06 am
So just got the rest of the DLC's and reconstructed my modlist. But perhaps THE most essential one isn't working.I tried to use this mod but gave up on it and used this one instead:
Specifically: http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11542/?tab=2&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Ffallout4%2Fajax%2Fmodfiles%2F%3Fid%3D11542&pUp=1
This is the mod that gets rid of Survival modes stupid narcolepsy feature and lets you once more save in a manner befitting a fucking Bethesda game.
Or it SHOULD.
Anyone else use this and maybe know what I'm doing wrong? So far tried having the full "Interface" folder intact in the Data folder, which just results in the game refusing to start up, and taking the "main menu" file out and just having that in Data (which does exactly nothing)
The file is a "shockwave flash" file so maybe I need a flash update or something?
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/12906/?
It adds an item that saves and it works pretty well
Post by: BFEL on December 03, 2016, 08:32:51 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 03, 2016, 08:38:33 am
And what logs are you basing that on? Because I never found anything of the kind and fallout wiki doesn't mention anything like that. The opposite, in fact.What
Okay I'm just looking that up
...
I still have no idea what you're talking about
It is in logs for the most part. Basically she isn't REALLY psychic.
Quote from: fallout wiki
She is most likely a Psyker, as her visions do in fact come true
It's not like psychic powers are new to the series.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 03, 2016, 08:43:03 am
Post by: Teneb on December 03, 2016, 09:13:59 am
Yeah I'm honestly curious too. I assumed you meant time traveler, but surely they wouldn't do that... Probably synth, but I'm not sure how that would explain some of the visions. I'd love to see the logs you mean.It's pretty easy to tell if someone is a synth by killing them: they'll drop synth parts.
Spoiler: If you want two slightly spoilery examples (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rolan7 on December 03, 2016, 09:18:51 am
And that's neat, I didn't think that worked for some reason.
Post by: Jimmy on December 03, 2016, 06:24:04 pm
Post by: Sergius on December 03, 2016, 11:29:24 pm
..I've never seen any mod out there use a SWF file. I've seen java programs that run semi-externally, i've seen normal ESP/ESM/BSA sorta mods, but I can't honestly say that any mod I've ever seen that's legit uses Flash.
The inventory screen from Skyrim is in flash, for some reason, and so was SkyUI, which replaced it.
Post by: Egan_BW on December 03, 2016, 11:30:52 pm
The inventory screen from Skyrim is in flash, for some reason, and so was SkyUI, which replaced it.Wait what.
Post by: Teneb on December 04, 2016, 08:46:42 am
Post by: scriver on December 04, 2016, 09:25:55 am
Post by: Teneb on December 04, 2016, 10:07:34 am
You have rotation snapping enabled, I can't remember the hotkey to toggle it without having a keyboard in front of me, but it's one of the symbols more to the left side of the toolbar, next to the snap-to-grid and snap-to-reference toggles.Uh... what toolbar?
And by the looks of it, the key to toggle it is not available in the FO4 options.
EDIT: Trying to search the internet about this problem only returns stuff about walls snapping to each other and such. I suppose I should make it clear that this is not the case. For instance, I want to place a bed inside the red rocket: trying to rotate it causes it to switch between 8 "directions" and nothing in-between. Moving the bed into the air or inside a wall causes it to rotate properly so long as it is in an invalid position. Moving it back where it can be placed causes it to behave oddly again. I pressed pretty much every key in my keyboard with the item selected and deselected and it did fuck-all, so I don't think it is that.
Post by: scriver on December 04, 2016, 03:54:31 pm
In-game workshop, not mod workshop...as it's opposite. Disregard what I said in the previous post.
I'm not sure what is causing it. It's been a while since I played, hut iirc the presence of other items or assets would sometimes cause the rotation/placing to become problematic. It took a lot of fiddling and/order collision toggling to get it right.
You can toggle folission by opening the console and typing in tcl. Any item or furniture you place in the workshop afterwards will lack collision until you toggle it back on (tcl again). However, when evaluating the placement-validity of new assets the workshop will still recognise the colission fields of stuff placed before the toggle, but selecting an item and then tab-cancelling to make it return to it's previous position will also disable collision.
...am I being too vague? I'm not the best at writing clear descriptions.
Post by: umiman on December 05, 2016, 05:02:41 am
I started by building this 4-story concrete, communist, haven:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Then I tried my hand at the DLC that lets you build factories and ended up building a gigantic factory behind it:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Pretty sure I've exceeded Starlight's settlement limit by 10 - 20x.
Post by: Jimmy on December 05, 2016, 05:24:37 am
What? Admit it, Fallout 4 is D&D with guns.
Post by: Teneb on December 05, 2016, 07:35:22 am
-snipster-That is really awesome.
Post by: Man of Paper on December 05, 2016, 10:38:55 am
Post by: umiman on December 05, 2016, 01:59:42 pm
It took way too long and most of it was spent trying to create an infinite, perfect loop for the factory. I gave up on that though, when I finally accepted how limited and worthless the factory tools are.
Seriously, some of the directions for the sorters and conveyer belts only go one direction and not the other. So if you wanted to sort your items leftwards instead of right, it's not possible. Why?
Also there's a way to take items out of a container but none to put items back into a container.
I spent so long on the stupid, super factory only to delete all of it and made a bunch of simple machines instead... sigh...
---
You know what's the funny part? All of it is completely pointless. There is literally no reason to do any of this.
Because you get instant access to your storage in any settlement, it's faster and easier for you to craft the items yourself in your workbenches than to wait for the factory to slowly make them one by one. Also they don't work when you're not in the area so you can't go away and come back to a million bullets.
I'd say the only reason you'd need this is to make stuff you can't craft yourself, like fresh processed food or armor but... do you really need those things? There's so much of it in the wasteland.
Post by: Iceblaster on December 05, 2016, 02:52:28 pm
Post by: Man of Paper on December 05, 2016, 03:10:18 pm
Post by: umiman on December 05, 2016, 05:05:11 pm
Quote
1. What the vacuum hopper considers to be a container is completely arbitrary. Crates aren't containers apparently but dressers are. But in this case we're hooking it up to the workshop itself so that should theoretically work unless it decides it doesn't want to, which happens.
2. The hopper sucks in materials by batches. So it will suck in ALL the plastic before sucking in ALL the lead and so forth. So if you're waiting on your gun, and you have 100 lead bars in line before you have 100 plastic pumpkins... well... you'll be waiting awhile.
3. The hopper doesn't have a filter. It sucks in everything. So lets say you only need copper, lead, and plastic. Well, it's sending in EVERYTHING so wait while it goes through every single thing in its glacial pace in addition to problem #2. I hope you don't have a farm or a water filter in this system because that's going in there too.
4. Component sorters sort ALL of the material you've asked them to sort. This really frigging sucks. Do you know why? Because it means if you want to make more than one thing that uses plastic in the same chain, that ain't happening. If you ask sorter A to sort all the lead, no one else is getting lead. So in this scenario, you can only have one weapon factory MAX. There is a workaround though, you can use lasers and timing to split the lead into two different routes and send them into different lines. Theoretically. Practically however... well... see point #8.
5. I hope you weren't planning on putting your factories on the left-hand side of the conveyor belt, because there's no way to do that in the game. Unless you make the world's largest u-turn because the turning conveyor belts are like 6 tiles long for some reason. Or you can use rollers, which don't work. I don't think anyone actually tested the rollers because they straight up don't work.
6. You have to go manually collect your guns yourself because there's no way to deposit them directly into something. There's no reverse vacuum hopper. You can put them into that dedicated storage thing but you can't make an infinite chain by depositing stuff into the workshop again.
7. I hope you weren't planning to have anything on one elevation pane above or below, because there's no way to do that. You can only do TWO elevation planes above and below, mwahahaha. By the way there's only a lift up, not a lift down. If you want to go back down 2 levels you need to use the massive giant hopper.
8. The joints and junctions for the conveyor belts are almost useless. Most of them have rollers on them, which are actually completely unworkable in-game because your stuff gets stuck on them. Other than that they are really, really, REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY hard to line up with your existing conveyor belts. Because all the corner pieces are like 6 tiles long, it's like trying to hook up those giant tetris L shapes by their ends.
It's really frigging dumb. I really hate how you can't make an automated food factory that produces something other than ONE type of food at a time. There has to be a mod that gives more sorter options or something.
Or maybe it's best if there isn't. I've already spent like 20 hours on this thing as it is.
------
I'm going to put aside the factory stuff for now though.
I still haven't checked out the arena stuff, the robots, or the raiders yet.
Post by: Krevsin on December 05, 2016, 05:24:04 pm
But then again who plays Bethesda RPGs without mods? :P
Post by: umiman on December 05, 2016, 05:33:32 pm
in vanilla you cannot make ammo or non-healing/food items so there's a purpose for these tools despite them being kind of terrible.Yeah, that's basically all they're practically useful for.
But then again who plays Bethesda RPGs without mods? :P
It's kinda neat to have something other than a workbench to make stuff with in your lair though.
For example, my setup on the fourth floor of that concrete building has all my displays and workbenches and stuff, but also an ammo press and a food production thing as well. So while I don't consider it a "factory" per se... it's a way to make those things in a cute way.
Post by: Gabeux on December 05, 2016, 10:42:54 pm
The other ones in the series are really fun, and some are great..but building a bridge and so many conveyors, just to process..food...is seriously..amusing.
Note that I watched this video while having lunch. It's probably the 5th+ Robbaz video that makes me feel a bit weird to watch when eating.
Post by: nenjin on December 05, 2016, 11:14:27 pm
I don't want to be annoying or sound like a spambot, but I found the latest Fallout 4 Robbaz video to be greatly amusing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TomMnotXb0).
The other ones in the series are really fun, and some are great..but building a bridge and so many conveyors, just to process..food...is seriously..amusing.
Note that I watched this video while having lunch. It's probably the 5th+ Robbaz video that makes me feel a bit weird to watch when eating.
Just wait til the great Clone Exodus. I was laughing my ass off. I love Robbaz, and I'm not the kind of guy who watches virtually any youtubers.
Post by: Gabeux on December 05, 2016, 11:38:06 pm
Just wait til the great Clone Exodus.
Wow man. That video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXIc9Uv6GWU).. He makes all his videos seem quick and easy, but I bet walking all those NPCs through the map probably took hours to record properly.
Again, don't want to sound fanboyish or hijack the thread, but when I watch his videos (especially From The Depths, The Sims 3 and Kerbal Space Program) I think "That's what we, gamers, were born for. To make insane, stupid, ingenious and hilarious shit happen."
And I mean stupid in the genius way. Smartphones and the internet probably sounded stupid until they actually happened.
Post by: nenjin on December 05, 2016, 11:43:29 pm
Like Robbaz says, it's gen-ie-us.
Post by: Gabeux on December 05, 2016, 11:56:46 pm
It kinda rescues how most people used to play games as a kid, I think. Always going for the absurd and smelling the roses - since that's all you really know how to do. Once you get older, most of the time you start getting used to patterns and focusing on getting what you want out of games (and experiences) instead of letting the experience provide you anything.
Which is why I think playing games with friends is always a different experience than playing alone. For instance, if I play modded Minecraft by myself I end up playing it completely focusing on the things that I want to do (which is usually automation and machines), meanwhile when I play with friends I usually discover details I never noticed when playing singleplayer. It kinda resets me to the natural way of playing around with things.
Post by: BFEL on December 06, 2016, 02:59:10 am
Oh, and while I don't have a weapon factory yet, I remember looking through stuff on the wiki and thinking the Flamer was HILARIOUSLY cost efficient to build, and probably worth a massive amount of caps compared to what it costs to build.
Post by: Iceblaster on December 06, 2016, 08:21:29 am
Though the meat factory seriously, is the most fucked up thing he's done. It's hilarious though. Makes me wonder if he's gonna pull a 'The End of The Cube' on the series once it's over :P
Post by: ThtblovesDF on December 06, 2016, 08:48:11 am
I reinstalled today, it's still not fixed and "new" work arounds (gammar gun, console cmds) don't fix it. FML
Anyone got the same issue?
Post by: Iceblaster on December 06, 2016, 09:28:38 am
Anyways, on a more serious note, I have no clue. Maybe go file a bug report.
Post by: Sergius on December 06, 2016, 12:46:30 pm
Anyway this time I'm playing as Butch, who is going to specialize in melee weapon and non-auto pistols. Probably not gonna focus much on Leader stuff yet, I need 3 points on Charisma just to get there.
Also everything kills me faster this time. I read somewhere that Very Hard is what used to be Survival hard before they changed Survival into masochist mode.
Post by: umiman on December 06, 2016, 01:44:28 pm
I archived my old save and started with a fresh install, plus all DLCs. I'm thinking adding a few mods, but nothing that changes gameplay hugely or changes settlement building a lot (at least until I have tried all the new DLC town stuff). Right now I only have the one that names armor and weapons nicely according to the modifications they have. Maybe I'll add one to rename settlers, I dunno.All the Bethesda difficulty levels just make enemies more bullet spongy and do more damage.
Anyway this time I'm playing as Butch, who is going to specialize in melee weapon and non-auto pistols. Probably not gonna focus much on Leader stuff yet, I need 3 points on Charisma just to get there.
Also everything kills me faster this time. I read somewhere that Very Hard is what used to be Survival hard before they changed Survival into masochist mode.
Survival is different in that it actually makes enemies significantly easier to kill (we're talking basically everyone dies in one or two hits generally). But you also die very easily.
The difficulty of survival is more to the point in that you have to worry about food, water, rest, disease, injuries, no instant heals, and the inability to save. Also no fast travel.
What I did was reduce the timescale to 6 instead of 20, so you're not endlessly blasted with requests for food / water / rest. Then after two CTDs where I lost 3 hours of gametime each, I modded in a way to quicksave on the fly. I use it sparingly, since it kinda defeats the point of the mode. So like, after I clear a cell or something.
I do like survival though, as it feels a lot more intimidating due to how easily you can get wrecked. I've taken to going everywhere in power armour just so I don't die in 2 shots. Also enemies with rocket launchers and fat men are super duper scary.
Post by: JimboM12 on December 06, 2016, 02:18:47 pm
Post by: Krevsin on December 06, 2016, 02:37:13 pm
Post by: JimboM12 on December 06, 2016, 02:44:16 pm
Armor becomes essential with the new damage values as it is very often the difference between a sudden unexpected death and a fighting chance. You have to really mind your weight as well because the carry weight has been lowered so much.
Cool, thanks for the heads up. Yeah, im not worried about fast travel, there's mods for that, but I don't want to have pimpin' maxed Combat Armor and still get rekt by a pipe pistol in 2 shots.
Post by: umiman on December 06, 2016, 04:25:48 pm
It's the whole reason why I run around everywhere with power armour because the raiders with rocket launchers are super hard to deal with otherwise.
There's a lot of things that survival does to my playstyle that you wouldn't expect too.
For example, I run around everywhere not with a gun equipped but with a melee weapon. This is because the biggest problem in survival is the surprise attacks from stuff hiding to ambush you. So you need melee to counter-attack fast enough as a gun can easily fuck up at that range.
Also because enemies are not marked on your compass, it's actually quite challenging to figure out where the enemies are, especially if there are snipers and such. So you take to approaching fortified locations with a recon scope or something to mark out your targets before you head in.
Not to mention damage in this mode is a lot more unforgiving than normal, because you can't instaheal. So it can get quite tense if you're low on health and the enemies are converging on you.
---
I highly recommend survival mode, just make sure to mod out a bunch of the idiotic stuff.
Post by: Krevsin on December 06, 2016, 04:33:09 pm
Post by: umiman on December 06, 2016, 04:52:30 pm
I have found a double barrel shotgun much more helpful in the case of a sudden ambush by a hidden basterd. They pop up and you just unload two barrels of death on them.I tried that for a bit, but I found my accuracy is garbage when I'm spooked lol.
Post by: Jimmy on December 06, 2016, 05:27:41 pm
Instead I heavily invest into chem usage. I'll pop some Jet Fuel, Bufftats, Orange Mentats, Overdrive and Psychobuff when I enter as they all stack. With +50% damage, +25% critical change, +10% VATS accuracy, +6 Strength, +6 Endurance, +8 Perception, +130 HP, +135 AP and slow time, I usually clear out any location in ten or fifteen minutes. Just don't forget to carry plenty of water, as this leaves you pretty dehydrated.
Post by: Krevsin on December 07, 2016, 04:00:21 am
Eh I have twitchy reflexes. (mashing the VATS button works too I guess)I have found a double barrel shotgun much more helpful in the case of a sudden ambush by a hidden basterd. They pop up and you just unload two barrels of death on them.I tried that for a bit, but I found my accuracy is garbage when I'm spooked lol.
Also I found that I turned off the radio while out in the wilds so that I can hear the sounds around me better. Works like a charm, I can now see deathclaws and shoot a couple rounds in their belly before they jump me
Post by: Arbinire on December 07, 2016, 03:00:17 pm
Post by: Sergius on December 08, 2016, 05:30:34 pm
It's the third time I have to redo Concord in Survival.
First time I managed to get all the crap from the museum in a piece of a raider corpse, plus all my cool weapons that were getting kinda heavy, put everything in it and dragged it out of Concord, only for it to just vanish in thin air in front of me and all the shit is gone. Reload back to the bed I put in the Red Rocket.
Second time, I was more careful, to store all the stuff in a container in the hardware store just outside the museum, so I could back for it after saving (and after all the corpse cleanup was done). But I had been going up the floors, taken one of the corpses, filled with loot and tossed it over the balcony to the first floor. Three corpses total. When I'm finished with the Deathclaw, I go back inside, and one of the corpses (the one with most of the stuff) is gone.
Now I have to reload AGAIN and start from Red Rocket AGAIN. That's why limiting saves and other "quality of life" gameplay options ends up being just a huge chore and never a challenge. I guess I'll jump down after every floor and just put everything inside the cigarette machine...
Post by: Jimmy on December 08, 2016, 05:35:40 pm
Honestly, go get the Automatron DLC and pick up Ava. I've got her pimped out to carry about 500 lbs of weight now. Never worry about carrying capacity again!
Post by: umiman on December 08, 2016, 05:46:32 pm
The extra inventory limit is another reason why I go everywhere in power armour.
Post by: Jimmy on December 08, 2016, 06:36:20 pm
Meanwhile I just found a full set of X-01 Mark III armor at the Fort Hagan hangar. I'm now actually considering starting to use power armor.
Post by: umiman on December 08, 2016, 06:53:17 pm
Only if your Strength is low. Power armor sets the base Strength score to 11, meaning higher Strength characters actually lose capacity wearing power armor.Yeah, I think it's scripted to be there. That's where I got mine as well.
Meanwhile I just found a full set of X-01 Mark III armor at the Fort Hagan hangar. I'm now actually considering starting to use power armor.
Post by: JimboM12 on December 08, 2016, 07:59:12 pm
Post by: Jimmy on December 08, 2016, 08:45:54 pm
Post by: Sergius on December 08, 2016, 09:05:58 pm
The stuff from the dead raiders where the Deathclaw spawns, I just put in a mailbox.
After escorting the minute-people to Sanctuary, I went back with Codsworth and just used the unlimited carry weight exploit (tell them to grab stuff over and over and they ignore the weight... but it also works on containers, so I just spammed it). Yeah I'm a filthy cheater... but no mods or console commands! HA!
Post by: Jimmy on December 08, 2016, 09:54:17 pm
I run with Righteous Authority (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Righteous_Authority) as my main and Old Faithful (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Old_Faithful) as my backup. I've modded Righteous Authority with Overcharged Capacitor, Improved Long Barrel, Recoil Compensating Stock and Quantum Gyro Compensating Lens along with Improved Sights for close combat, and I've got Old Faithful similarly configured with Improved Sniper Barrel and a Medium Night Vision Scope for long range combat.
I like the laser weapons since their ammo is low weight, decent damage and fairly common across the Commonwealth. Works well with a VATS heavy play-style too.
Post by: Silverthrone on December 08, 2016, 10:18:40 pm
It is a very nice back-up to my collection of Institute guns. I do not know if they are better than the ordinary ones, but I think the blue beams are pretty, and I really like the wwwWwWOB!-sound the energy weapons make.
Post by: Krevsin on December 09, 2016, 03:29:48 am
Post by: umiman on December 09, 2016, 03:33:06 am
It's quite literally the only weapon I need. Kills basically everything in one or two hits at my level 40 state. Even the super sentry bots from the Automatron DLC just die to it like flies. I have it set to semi-automatic. The explosive legendary trait is still as broken as ever. It feels like I'm walking around with a Space Marine bolter.
That and Ava walks around with me in full Sentry Bot gear, two explosive gatlings, and two fat man launchers.
Post by: TheDarkStar on December 09, 2016, 03:37:00 am
Double-shot might be a bit stronger in some circumstances, though - I once did a playthrough where I found a double-shot guass rifle that iirc could do over 400 damage a shot.
Post by: Jimmy on December 09, 2016, 03:41:07 am
I gotta say the most fun legendary weapon is a Never Ending automatic. Sometimes it's just awesome to run around with a bullet-hose and empty your entire inventory of ammo in an orgy of violence.
Post by: umiman on December 09, 2016, 03:47:29 am
Post by: Jimmy on December 09, 2016, 04:20:48 am
Although I did once try shooting a mirelurk queen with a mini-nuke, and I can honestly say I wasn't that impressed. Unless you invest into the explosives perks, it simply doesn't stack up at later stages of the game against the damage from your favoured weapon type. I did about the same at full perk training with a single clip of ammo on a combat rifle firing into the centre of mass of the target as I did with one mini-nuke and no perk investment.
Post by: umiman on December 09, 2016, 04:26:07 am
You really want a long, long, long distance between yourself and the target before you let that baby rip.There is another nuke in the game that you can't get normally except through console.
Although I did once try shooting a mirelurk queen with a mini-nuke, and I can honestly say I wasn't that impressed. Unless you invest into the explosives perks, it simply doesn't stack up at later stages of the game against the damage from your favoured weapon type. I did about the same at full perk training with a single clip of ammo on a combat rifle firing into the centre of mass of the target as I did with one mini-nuke and no perk investment.
However, you can use the Artillery Enhancement mod to make it so your Minuteman artillery shoots those nukes instead of the wimpy artillery rounds they normally shoot.
It's... um... it's quite massive.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 09, 2016, 04:42:06 am
I found a pipe gun with the explosive roundsenchantmenteffect, which turned out quite useful, indeed. I modified it into a light machine gun, and it is very efficient. The ammunition is cheap and easy to find, and it can rip most things apart in just a few bursts. It is handy when countering a charging enemy. Of course, I do have to stand still and be well aware of my surroundings when firing that weapon, particularly indoors. It is very easy to forget, strafe too close to a wall and get caught in the burst yourself.
It is a very nice back-up to my collection of Institute guns. I do not know if they are better than the ordinary ones, but I think the blue beams are pretty, and I really like the wwwWwWOB!-sound the energy weapons make.
As far as I remember Institute weapons do less damage than lasers but are... lighter, maybe, with larger magazines? I don't recall very well, because I always thought they were worse than conventional lasers.
Post by: Krevsin on December 09, 2016, 04:46:42 am
Honestly I prefer the look of Institute weapons over the lasers but they take up so much of the screen they make the game virtually unplayable for me without the mod that makes them smaller.
Post by: Iceblaster on December 09, 2016, 08:43:23 am
Post by: BFEL on December 09, 2016, 08:31:16 pm
Survival is different in that it actually makes enemies significantly easier to kill (we're talking basically everyone dies in one or two hits generally). But you also die very easily.BULL
FUCKING
SHIT
Maybe you're just playing an entirely different game then me, but my survival playthrough has basically been "Oh, you're in full power armor? Well I have an unmodded pipe pistol that is gonna absolutely wreck your shit in seconds.
Oh, you wanna kill me first with your fully upgraded combat rifle? Naw, unload the whole fuckin clip into my face, I'll laugh it off in my worthless rags."
I put in a mod to take it back to normal damage for all parties, but it seems to have fucked some shit up cuz now every save I make is corrupted.
GOD. FUCKING. DAMMIT.
I just want to have an immersive experience without dealing with endless bullshit, but apparently that just isn't something I'm allowed to do.
Post by: umiman on December 09, 2016, 09:00:25 pm
Post by: BFEL on December 09, 2016, 09:50:00 pm
Post by: Jimmy on December 10, 2016, 02:20:14 am
Survival is supposed to be hard. You're supposed to die often and lose frequently. If that's not the style of play you like, you can always dial the difficulty back down.
Don't forget that building an adrenaline streak is a big part of survival mode. You get a stacking bonus to your damage the more enemies you kill in a short time, and it wears off over time and with rest. If you're not doing big damage it's probably because you're not packing enough adrenaline.
Also, I seriously suggest using some chems. Even without any perk investments, they're a great way to get a big boost to your damage output and survivability. A hit of Buffout and Psycho will do wonders to boost your damage and hit points, and follow it up with some Jet to go bullet-time on those raider scum. Addictions are easily cured at a wasteland doc, or just brew up a Refreshing Beverage at a chem station.
Post by: Krevsin on December 10, 2016, 03:03:57 am
Oh yeah, power armor is basically useless in unmodded Survival, it makes you a bigger target and while it is much more protective than most armors you're also really open to getting shot and you can't run away as fast. Better to play it in full modfied ordinary armor because you can run away faster and sneak better without needing modification to the frame. Playing Survival is more like playing Far Cry than ordinary Fallout 4, you have to sneak around and scout out enemy locations instead of just barging in.Survival is different in that it actually makes enemies significantly easier to kill (we're talking basically everyone dies in one or two hits generally). But you also die very easily.BULL
FUCKING
SHIT
Maybe you're just playing an entirely different game then me, but my survival playthrough has basically been "Oh, you're in full power armor? Well I have an unmodded pipe pistol that is gonna absolutely wreck your shit in seconds.
Oh, you wanna kill me first with your fully upgraded combat rifle? Naw, unload the whole fuckin clip into my face, I'll laugh it off in my worthless rags."
I put in a mod to take it back to normal damage for all parties, but it seems to have fucked some shit up cuz now every save I make is corrupted.
GOD. FUCKING. DAMMIT.
I just want to have an immersive experience without dealing with endless bullshit, but apparently that just isn't something I'm allowed to do.
as for the weapon damage, invest in the perks that upgrade weapon damage to keep up with increasing enemy health. And even without them you never have to empty an ENTIRE CLIP OF A FULLY UPGRADED COMBAT RIFLE INTO A MEASLY RAIDER JUST TO HAVE THEM SCOFF AT IT (unless they are wearing a full set of sturdy/heavy raider armor). You're definitely overreacting, an unmodified pipe pistol is only dangerous in early game and by the time you start getting combat rifles, all of the raiders you encounter have upgraded variants (unless you are specifically exploring the areas around sanctuary) and the unmodified pipe pistol is usually about as dangerous as a pea-shooter. Unless you're for some reason not wearing any armor. Which you should.
Post by: Girlinhat on December 10, 2016, 03:14:39 am
Post by: Jimmy on December 10, 2016, 03:34:30 am
Post by: Krevsin on December 10, 2016, 05:50:06 am
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 10, 2016, 01:55:13 pm
I've managed to get the thing running, but every time I start a new game?
It CTD and crashes my graphics driver to boot.
Aaaarghhh.
Post by: nenjin on December 10, 2016, 04:15:17 pm
Post by: BFEL on December 10, 2016, 09:26:55 pm
Survival is supposed to be hard. You're supposed to die often and lose frequently. If that's not the style of play you like, you can always dial the difficulty back down.No, survival is supposed to introduce having to eat, drink and sleep. It adds depth and immersion to the game, then shits all over you by making everything one shot you.
So I can't just dial the difficulty back without losing features of the game.
I don't know why Bethesda felt the need to tie the new systems to the hardest difficulty, presumably so they could pretend they didn't just rip off New Vegas.
You're definitely overreacting, an unmodified pipe pistol is only dangerous in early game and by the time you start getting combat rifles, all of the raiders you encounter have upgraded variants (unless you are specifically exploring the areas around sanctuary) and the unmodified pipe pistol is usually about as dangerous as a pea-shooter. Unless you're for some reason not wearing any armor. Which you should.I'm wearing fucking maxed out armor. With Armorsmith Extended. So I have FOUR HUNDRED damage resistance. Without Power Armor.
And NO, PIPE RIFLES FUCKING SHRED ME. THEY SHRED ME FASTER THEN MY COMBAT RIFLE HURTS RAIDERS. THIS IS WHAT I AM COMPLAINING ABOUT, BUT I WOULDN'T HAVE TO IF BETHESDA HAD JUST BEEN SENSIBLE AND NOT TIED THE SHIT I WANT WITH LOL DARK SOULS WAS FOR LITTLE BABIES MODE.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 10, 2016, 09:31:15 pm
Post by: Jimmy on December 10, 2016, 09:38:16 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 10, 2016, 09:41:20 pm
Post by: Jimmy on December 10, 2016, 09:45:41 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 10, 2016, 09:55:10 pm
Post by: BFEL on December 10, 2016, 10:01:22 pm
Maybe dial back the modsJimmy, this is a Bethesda game. What you've just suggested is Heresy :P
Right now I'm more looking at if something is conflicting with the mod that makes survival easier, or if the save corruption just happened randomly or something stupid.
Please note that I UNDERSTAND how to play that difficulty level, I just HATE IT. I can see how it can be immersive and fun when you're in the mood for that style of play, but I like my Fallout hard and loud. I just happen to also want to manage basic needs as well, which Bethesda didn't account for.
Post by: Jimmy on December 10, 2016, 10:09:43 pm
As for mods, if you simply have to have your Batman vs. Darth Vader dubstep dance battle mod, I won't judge. Play the game your way, bro. Vanilla's for people with no imagination.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 10, 2016, 10:17:53 pm
Post by: Jimmy on December 10, 2016, 10:32:03 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 10, 2016, 10:36:54 pm
Their stories are fun, their games are excellent platform, their skills as game makers are atrocious.
Post by: Neonivek on December 11, 2016, 07:33:45 am
Though... I guess I'd have to admit that their stories are USUALLY less broken then their games are... Though Skyrim is a pretty close contender between the two... But then again Skyrim is probably the worst plotline they ever done.
At least Fallout 3 had some intrigue and mystery... and Fallout 4... well... Ok Fallout 4 is a mess too... But not as transcendently bad as Skyrim is.
With Oblivion... Ok that was a mess too... but at least it was them not knowing how to do a directed story in a game without direction.
Post by: Virtz on December 11, 2016, 07:59:20 am
As for gunplay, I actually enjoy it a lot more in FO4 than I did in 3. In fact, I've played recent AAA FPSes with worse gunplay. Like I'll still mod in increased weapon damage to tone down the bullet sponge, but I had fun even in vanilla.
Post by: Teneb on December 11, 2016, 09:34:44 am
Fallout 3 had intrigue and mystery?The Pitt. The Pitt was great and the very best thing about FO3.
Well, maybe not mystery.
Post by: Krevsin on December 11, 2016, 09:42:15 am
Fallout 3 had intrigue and mystery? Like what?
Such as the mysteries of:
Why bother with all this water nonsense if nobody seems to care?
Why are the enclave evil other than 'Because they killed your dad' and 'but they want to control a thing and if we stop them we can control a thing'?
Why am I forced to kill a security guard whom I've known for my entire life instead of trying to talk him down?
Why is the combat so terribly shit?
Why does any of this matter again?
Why can't I preform a holy exterminatus on Little Lamplight?
Why does nobody care if I blow up Megaton apart from the radio DJ?
Why is the evil choice always "baby-eating murderous psychopath"?
And so on and so forth.
Post by: JimboM12 on December 11, 2016, 09:48:38 am
I let the dreaded Corprus disease turn me into a super mutant of strength and endurance. So what, the stat drain that came with it got removed later. I pumped intelligence and boosted alchemy and enchantment until I became a god in both power and title. Muahahahahahahahahaha! Dagoth Ur, you ain't got nothing on the Nerevarine. Summon constant Golden Saints and give myself 999 health returned per second for 9999 duration.
Post by: Teneb on December 11, 2016, 10:37:15 am
Morrowind. I did kinda get into the story......fuck it: I'm the Nerevarine, bitch! I let the whole reborn saint deal go to my head:There is a much easier way to break the game: set sunder and keening to quickslots and cycle between the two incredibly fast: their buffs won't be removed and will stack for as long as you bother to do it (or until it overflows).
I let the dreaded Corprus disease turn me into a super mutant of strength and endurance. So what, the stat drain that came with it got removed later. I pumped intelligence and boosted alchemy and enchantment until I became a god in both power and title. Muahahahahahahahahaha! Dagoth Ur, you ain't got nothing on the Nerevarine. Summon constant Golden Saints and give myself 999 health returned per second for 9999 duration.
Post by: BFEL on December 12, 2016, 12:57:28 am
You probably wonder why I keep signing on with them when I hate everything they stand for, and the answer is it makes a better story. Particularly this time, since I'm gonna play the Nuka World DLC and get my raider on. Any other ending and it makes no sense to suddenly be an asshole. But with the Brotherhood you're an old veteran of the US army who had his civilian life ripped away from him along with his family. You sign on with the Brotherhood for a sense of familiarity while you try desperately to reclaim your son. But then you find him, and he's an old man. Everything you could rely on is gone, your son is a bitter old madman who you can't feel anything for, so you fall back in line and help the army to kill him, and go back to the only thing you really know. But there's a sticking point in the young synth he built in his image. The Brotherhood tells you to kill it, but the fact he seems so much like your child gnaws at you. Whatever choice you make, you just can't care about anything anymore. And then you find Nuka World, and the raiders offer you a way to distract yourself...
But yeah, Brotherhood are still assholes :P
Post by: Jimmy on December 12, 2016, 02:14:56 am
It's unfortunate you're not given the option to attempt a diplomatic alliance with the Brotherhood instead of wiping them out. I can honestly see a great deal of benefit were the Brotherhood of Steel and the Institute to open trade negotiations with one another. They'd certainly corner the market on advanced tech.
Makes me wonder what's happening in China during the Fallout timeline. I wonder whether one day America is going to wake up with chinese soldiers invading while they bicker over their own internal differences. I guess China's probably as bad if not worse than America though, so maybe not. Perhaps Australia becomes the new world power? I'm sure nobody would have bothered shooting any nukes there.
Post by: Krevsin on December 12, 2016, 04:03:53 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Neonivek on December 12, 2016, 04:05:21 am
They are something that seems amazing at first, but that gets dumber and more childish the more you learn about them...
Finally culminating with them losing every single piece of cred they ever had because it turns out they are also weenies.
Post by: Krevsin on December 12, 2016, 04:06:28 am
It helps that the institute is stupid...
Considering the other factions, that's kind of par for the course.
Post by: Jimmy on December 12, 2016, 04:17:39 am
One thing I never got: what the hell is the deal with the Coursers? Wiki agrees that the info regarding them is conflicted about whether they're just exceptionally talented Gen 3 synths or a different model subtype designed specifically for their role. Honestly I just get the vibe that Bethesda slapped them in as a "LOL Bladerunner" reference and didn't care too much about continuity. Whatever the case, they seem fairly superior to the deeply flawed Gen 3 model, though Far Harbor proves even they can go rogue.
Post by: Yolan on December 12, 2016, 05:17:53 am
Perhaps Australia becomes the new world power? I'm sure nobody would have bothered shooting any nukes there.
As I recall, towards the end of the Sarah Connor Chronicles TV series it was revealed that the reistance had a terminator operated nuclear submarine
that was used to ferry supplies over from Australia, where they still had farms or something I guess. Hehe. ;-)
But actually we have long had a bunch of bases here, because of the clear skies. There are enough nukes in the soviet arsenal to have hit all our main areas plus bases. No doubt.
Post by: Neonivek on December 12, 2016, 05:20:25 am
It helps that the institute is stupid...
Considering the other factions, that's kind of par for the course.
Ok I will admit that NO ONE looks good in Fallout 4... but you would think the Institute the ONE thing Bethesda invented that was actually cool and interesting... would be handled with a bit of respect.
Post by: Jimmy on December 12, 2016, 05:39:00 am
Yeah, plus we've seen what nuclear fallout did to the American wildlife. They got Radscorpions, Bloatflies, Bloodbugs and Stingwings. Australia's already got those fucking things here now! Radioactive mutation basically guarantees zero human survivors once the native wildlife adapts.Perhaps Australia becomes the new world power? I'm sure nobody would have bothered shooting any nukes there.
As I recall, towards the end of the Sarah Connor Chronicles TV series it was revealed that the reistance had a terminator operated nuclear submarine
that was used to ferry supplies over from Australia, where they still had farms or something I guess. Hehe. ;-)
But actually we have long had a bunch of bases here, because of the clear skies. There are enough nukes in the soviet arsenal to have hit all our main areas plus bases. No doubt.
Post by: Neonivek on December 12, 2016, 05:41:07 am
Though once again I would LOVE for a Fallout game that didn't take place in the USA... and honestly why not? It isn't like they want to continue the story in America (as they go out of their way to undo setting progression...)
Post by: scriver on December 12, 2016, 05:57:03 am
Not all countries were very hard hit by the Apoc. Australia probably was barely targeted.
This isn't accurate, as far as I know. We simply do not know how badly the rest of the world was hurt.
Post by: BFEL on December 12, 2016, 07:35:34 am
But yeah, I've been saying the next one should be in China since this one first came out. Would LOVE to see how the other side fared.
But it seems no one wants to break the mold, especially since it would mean not having a BoS suit as the posterboy.
Post by: SOLDIER First on December 12, 2016, 07:38:41 am
Post by: BFEL on December 12, 2016, 07:42:25 am
Implying a Dragoon stealth suit wouldn't work just as well?Some executive somewhere would have an aneurism and cancel everything till the BoS was thrown haphazardly into China in the least lore friendly way possible.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 12, 2016, 07:53:42 am
Also the Railroad and Institute are really shitty factions all around, and deserve death. And the BoS need to actually act like the BoS, not spehss mureens.
Re: China and Australia; the lore says the whole world died, the WHOLE world, not just the US, not just Europe, the WHOLE WORLD. From the Fallout 2 war never changes intro: "Continents were swallowed in flames and fell beneath boiling oceans."
Post by: Ultimuh on December 12, 2016, 08:04:00 am
a different dev could fuck it up worse than 'thesda.My mind went immediately to Ubisoft and EA.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 12, 2016, 08:06:05 am
Post by: umiman on December 12, 2016, 08:08:04 am
Given the scale of nuclear apocalypse that we were capable of producing on our own earth back in the cold war, we could easily cover the atmosphere in so much toxic dust just from the nukes that the entire world would have been doomed.
So I'd imagine in a world of Fallout where everything is the super version and there's actually fusion power, it'd be even worse. I'd imagine the infrastructure in many places would be intact and usable, but everything would be dead.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 12, 2016, 08:09:41 am
Post by: Krevsin on December 12, 2016, 09:00:17 am
Not all countries were very hard hit by the Apoc. Australia probably was barely targeted.Because the 50s cheesy american aesthetics and cold war paranoia are an integral part of the look and feel of Fallout.
Though once again I would LOVE for a Fallout game that didn't take place in the USA... and honestly why not? It isn't like they want to continue the story in America (as they go out of their way to undo setting progression...)
A Fallout game taking place anywhere else on the globe would be immediately bereft of its immediate visual identity (and don't give me no rubbish about how this is a Fallout 4 trend, it's been a vital part of the franchise since the first game).
Take away the 1950s aesthetic and the american approach to the cold war paranoia and the franchise is entirely unrecognizable. Fun setting to explore in a DLC, perhaps, but not in a main series game.
(Besides, how much do you wanna bet that instead of looking up interesting artistic styles and ways to innovate they'd just stick Super Mutants, the Brotherhood of Steel, Vault-Tec and all the fan favourite things into the locale and just rebrand them slightly.)
And the BoS need to actually act like the BoS, not spehss mureens.I actually disagree with this. The BoS has changed from Fallout 1 to Fallout 2 and later to Fallout NV, so I don't mind them changing and becoming different. FFS they're the only polity in Bethesdout that has had canonical and visible changes from one game to another.
Though I fear they'll just make an Elder Scrolls Empire out of them and have them be what the plot needs them to be from game to game, it's at least SOME semblance of an actual canon being in place.
Post by: JimboM12 on December 12, 2016, 09:21:08 am
That is sort of the picture the lore paints, most of humanity dead, the survivors ekeing out an existence in the silent remains of the old world. Then things get better over time, as the radiation dies down and nature begins to re-assert herself.
I get this feeling too which is why I think the Minutemen ending is the most canon. It doesn't matter who you team up with, but I tend to go Railroad + Minutemen as my ending. I always blow up at Father after getting all 3 factions to kill each other at the Battle of Bunker Hill. I also walk out with dozens of full suits of T60, enough weapons to arm the entire commonwealth, and a few really nice suits of Railroad heavy coats.
Post by: Iceblaster on December 12, 2016, 09:42:49 am
Railroad: Bunch of people who's only goal is to free the synths. No sustainability once the Institute is gone.
Minutemen: Only sustainable with the SS at the General chair. Unless they can get a clear line of succession and government set up, it'll just got the way of Quincy all over again.
Brotherhood: Military force who have a somewhat sustainable goal of purging the wasteland of mutants and synths. While it's debatable on their tactics, the Brotherhood at least won't collapse once their leader dies. They presumably have a way to get a new elder should Maxson die without an heir.
Institute: The bogeyman of the wasteland. While it clearly would survive most of anything the wasteland throws at it, they are hated by nearly everyone unanimously. Sustainable, if they stayed isolationist. If they, however, stopped pulling strings behind the shadows, owned up to replacing people, and furthermore didn't destroy any civilization as it develops, they could actually become a faction that does what's best for the Commonwealth.
I mean. Bias may be here, but honestly, the Institute does seem like the best choice. They can make gen 2 synths to defend settlements and patrol the wasteland, thus making people more safe and less likely to die doing simple guard duty, they can use their tech to increase the quality of life everywhere. But they don't, and instead they go for being the Illuminati and just manipulating everyone. I mean, shit. If they just stopped being such a shadow-y cabal, they'd probably be more liked. I'm probably too optimistic though. Seems anytime an isolationist group is around, they have no chance to turn good and always are doing stuff for the 'evulz.'
That was way more than I thought I'd type up :P
Post by: Krevsin on December 12, 2016, 09:53:15 am
Except the Railroad but they're kind of one-note and really rather pointless without the Institute. Additional scribes for the BoS/tech department for the Minutemen maybe?
Post by: Iceblaster on December 12, 2016, 09:58:54 am
Can't tell you how happy I was when New-XCOM's council wasn't going to turn out to be evil. But in most cases, even if they're good guys starting out, it's just a matter of time until that group because totally evil in a really unexpected plot twist :P
Post by: Ultimuh on December 12, 2016, 10:01:55 am
What would happen if they all decided to turn against their creators all at once? Even if there are counter measures, the chance is still there.
Post by: Krevsin on December 12, 2016, 10:04:07 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on December 12, 2016, 10:33:48 am
Post by: Neonivek on December 12, 2016, 10:42:48 am
Not all countries were very hard hit by the Apoc. Australia probably was barely targeted.Because the 50s cheesy american aesthetics and cold war paranoia are an integral part of the look and feel of Fallout.
Though once again I would LOVE for a Fallout game that didn't take place in the USA... and honestly why not? It isn't like they want to continue the story in America (as they go out of their way to undo setting progression...)
A Fallout game taking place anywhere else on the globe would be immediately bereft of its immediate visual identity (and don't give me no rubbish about how this is a Fallout 4 trend, it's been a vital part of the franchise since the first game).
Take away the 1950s aesthetic and the american approach to the cold war paranoia and the franchise is entirely unrecognizable. Fun setting to explore in a DLC, perhaps, but not in a main series game.
(Besides, how much do you wanna bet that instead of looking up interesting artistic styles and ways to innovate they'd just stick Super Mutants, the Brotherhood of Steel, Vault-Tec and all the fan favourite things into the locale and just rebrand them slightly.)
Man... I sure wouldn't want to see what a "England forced to keep a 1950s, or some other nostalgic time period, aestetic with sci-fi futurisms being used unironically"... or Japan... Or China... Or Australia... Or Canada...
That would just be boring and ENTIRELY against the setting... and as we ALL know... no setting has ever expanded or delved into other aspects of its mythology.
But I understand... There are PLENTY of other games that do that in a post apocalyptic setting like Stalker... and... Stalker... and Yeah pretty much only stalker.
Man... All these good ideas would be terrible! Lets not do them!
Instead lets just have Fallout 5 take place 100 miles away from the last... 100 years in the future... Have absolutely nothing change... Have the Brotherhood of Steel be jerks again... and nothing advance ever! Muuuuch better!
Post by: Neonivek on December 12, 2016, 10:58:19 am
But holy goodness I was being rude so forgive me for that.
Post by: Fniff on December 12, 2016, 11:08:12 am
Post by: Silverthrone on December 12, 2016, 11:19:15 am
Even better, some could be isometric, turn-based RPGs, like what the Old Believers want.
I appreciate this is just one step above the "Why, make it yourself, then!" arguement, but I think that would be the best way. I'd like to see it, and with only the broadest beat of Fallout (alternative future as imagined in the 50's and global atomic war), there is a lot of canvas to fill in.
Post by: Grim Portent on December 12, 2016, 11:21:12 am
What's weird is that they gave the synths capacity for desire, emotion, and other things generally inconducive to indentured servitude, then made them indentured servants.
I think it's unintentional and unnoticed, several Institute NPCs say that Synths do not feel or think, just simulate doing so.
When freshly made or mind wiped they have no personality beyond whats' programmed into the mechanical bits of their brain, but they seem to develop from there like a child would, piecing things together from experiences and memories.
They were made to learn and emulate humans, it's necessary for them to learn complex tasks, combat skills and infiltrate societies. The Institute just doesn't think they've gotten past the simulation stage of things, which is actually kind of reasonable, when you can program something to feel or not feel emotions, to think of others as family members despite being wholly unrelated, create an entire fake mind even, why should you think any of the things they claim to feel are more than just glitches in the programming?
Post by: Krevsin on December 12, 2016, 12:30:43 pm
Way to miss my point entirely :PNot all countries were very hard hit by the Apoc. Australia probably was barely targeted.Because the 50s cheesy american aesthetics and cold war paranoia are an integral part of the look and feel of Fallout.
Though once again I would LOVE for a Fallout game that didn't take place in the USA... and honestly why not? It isn't like they want to continue the story in America (as they go out of their way to undo setting progression...)
A Fallout game taking place anywhere else on the globe would be immediately bereft of its immediate visual identity (and don't give me no rubbish about how this is a Fallout 4 trend, it's been a vital part of the franchise since the first game).
Take away the 1950s aesthetic and the american approach to the cold war paranoia and the franchise is entirely unrecognizable. Fun setting to explore in a DLC, perhaps, but not in a main series game.
(Besides, how much do you wanna bet that instead of looking up interesting artistic styles and ways to innovate they'd just stick Super Mutants, the Brotherhood of Steel, Vault-Tec and all the fan favourite things into the locale and just rebrand them slightly.)
Man... I sure wouldn't want to see what a "England forced to keep a 1950s, or some other nostalgic time period, aestetic with sci-fi futurisms being used unironically"... or Japan... Or China... Or Australia... Or Canada...
That would just be boring and ENTIRELY against the setting... and as we ALL know... no setting has ever expanded or delved into other aspects of its mythology.
But I understand... There are PLENTY of other games that do that in a post apocalyptic setting like Stalker... and... Stalker... and Yeah pretty much only stalker.
Man... All these good ideas would be terrible! Lets not do them!
Instead lets just have Fallout 5 take place 100 miles away from the last... 100 years in the future... Have absolutely nothing change... Have the Brotherhood of Steel be jerks again... and nothing advance ever! Muuuuch better!
The point isn't that these periods aren't interestiong or wouldn't be interesting, it's that they're so far removed from what makes Fallout Fallout that they might as well be other games entirely. In fact they should be other games entirely.
You don't need to attach Bioshock or We Happy Few to Fallout. Let them do their own thing. Like even as "offshoot" games from the main series. Do not attach unique IPs to a pre-existing franchise because that reeks of desperation and insecurity about your own creations.
edit: also you do know that you can do unique stories within Fallout's america without involving the BoS or have it look exactly the same as the previous games right? America is a big place and the only reason why the BoS is in every Fallout game is because they have been ruled an essential part of "the brand" by the developer. Just like Super Mutants. There's no reason why these two things should be on the East coast. you know that, right? The only reason why they're there is because Bethesda decided that it wouldn't be a Fallout game without them so they stuck them there.
Which means any game in the franchise made by Bethesda will feature those two things somehow. Which means that you will never get a "unique" or "new" experience, you will get the same set pieces rebranded as something else because that's how Bethesda rolls.
Post by: Neonivek on December 12, 2016, 03:02:07 pm
Quote
also you do know that you can do unique stories within Fallout's america without involving the BoS or have it look exactly the same as the previous games right?
I know... But while setting it in Japan would force Bethesda to do something new...
And lets face it... Bethesda has sort of made it clear what they want to do with the franchise... Keep it the exact same.
Which is kind of funny because the original scrapped Fallout 3, while still in the USA, was also different taking place in endless deserts and utilizing a bit more technology then the previous games. They did this crazy thing and advanced the setting, did something different, and what have you.
Post by: Fniff on December 12, 2016, 03:06:53 pm
A noble sentiment, but you couldn't force Bethseda to something new if you set them on fire.Quotealso you do know that you can do unique stories within Fallout's america without involving the BoS or have it look exactly the same as the previous games right?I know... But while setting it in Japan would force Bethesda to do something new...
Post by: Egan_BW on December 12, 2016, 03:09:40 pm
Fallout 5: China would be great, if it had mostly new stuff with powerarmor and such being rare.
Post by: JimboM12 on December 12, 2016, 03:30:54 pm
I'm not so sure about that. Let's set them on fire and see!
Fallout 5: China would be great, if it had mostly new stuff with powerarmor and such being rare.
Knowing Bethesda, we'd be Americans stuck in China and half the initial plot quest is learning Mandarin. And the plot would get really weird, really fast. I'm talking it starts: "Help our village against the raiders! 帮助我们!" to "YOU DIRTY AMERICAN, PREPARE TO FIGHT THE GHOST OF CHAIRMAN MAO!"
Post by: Silverthrone on December 12, 2016, 03:35:07 pm
Post by: Krevsin on December 12, 2016, 04:24:02 pm
I know right. Bethesda doesn't like doing that with their games. Because they're Bethesda. Elder Scrolls is in a perpetual state of medieval stasis, with the polities and setting changing on a per-need basis but never too much. Only to the point that they fit into the narrative they have in mind, because heaven forbid they'd have to step out of their comfort zone or enforce a canon that might displease some of their fandom. People don't like change, they just want more of the same thing and that's exactly where both Elder Scrolls and Fallout are headed lore-wise.Quotealso you do know that you can do unique stories within Fallout's america without involving the BoS or have it look exactly the same as the previous games right?
I know... But while setting it in Japan would force Bethesda to do something new...
And lets face it... Bethesda has sort of made it clear what they want to do with the franchise... Keep it the exact same.
Which is kind of funny because the original scrapped Fallout 3, while still in the USA, was also different taking place in endless deserts and utilizing a bit more technology then the previous games. They did this crazy thing and advanced the setting, did something different, and what have you.
I fully expect the next Fallout game to take an undetermined-yet-roughly-200-years-after-2077 setting and feature SPEHS MUREEN BoS in a new locale, complete with tons of non-descript raider gangs who are just there to be cannon fodder and Super Mutants somehow and expect Beth to double down on big setpieces that do not gel well story-wise with their prefered format of freeform exploration, making the entire game's narrative feel disjointed and shallow.
Do I sound bitter? Because I am.
But anyway. Exploring other countries would be a fun DLC thing but wouldn't really work in a mainline game for the reasons I've outlined in my previous post.
Post by: Iceblaster on December 12, 2016, 04:28:41 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 12, 2016, 04:45:15 pm
Because I see no way to have raiders be more than cannon fodder.
Damn Mongols!
Post by: Krevsin on December 12, 2016, 04:48:11 pm
What I would like however is for the established gangs to look distinct. Not by using new assets but rather by assigning them names (Mirelurks Raider or thereabouts) and some assets to some specific raider groups (say that the Mirelurks always wear long johns and metal and use mostly hunting rifles and 10mm pistols). Just like New Vegas did, where most raiders that you meet are members of named gangs (Vipers, Powder Gangers, The Fiends, Khans, Scorpions and Jackals, respectively) with generic raiders being more the exception than the rule.
Again, they don't have to all have names and personalities or even specially made assets, just at least a semblance of outwardly visible identities.
So, gang names, a list of specific assets they usually spawn with and specific parts of the map they spawn in.
And I know Bethesda can do this because what I'm describing is word for word The Gunners, the Saugus ironworks guys and with Automatron the Rust Devils (only they get special assets because they've been added by the DLC). Bethesda can put the effort in when it's about a DLC or a quest or an excuse for there to be high-level raider equivalents.
They just can't be arsed to apply that to the rest of the world and make it feel more real. Gangs and tribes like having a uniform of sorts. It's how human mentality works. You don't just join a gang and be told "just wear whatever", you wear gang-approved colours and clothing items.
fakedit: this is basically the thing the Nuka World DLC gets so right.
Post by: Silverthrone on December 12, 2016, 05:05:51 pm
Fallout, on the other hand, would really benefit from a status update in the setting. Much like how Fallout 2 was edging away from the apocalypse and well into the post-apocalypse. That is a bit of the shame with Fallout 4. It's a fairly good little game, but it does represent a stagnation I do not like to see. That would certainly benefit from taking on a different sort of beat.
I remember when I played Fallout: New Vegas for the first time, and thought that it felt more like Darfur, without motor vehicles and bigger wildlife. Since I am not a huge fan of the series, I have no real 'right' to say what I think Fallout should be, but the New Vegas model is far more compelling.
The era of hunting for tinned meat to survive in the ruins is well-explored and well gone by. A new world, with new societies and new challenges has grown. That is where the focus ought to be, that is where the series could do its best.
And if the more immediate post-apoc tin gathering is what appeals the studio and the producers more, I wish they could at least set it in an earlier part of the timeline. A prequel, even if it did mean having to surrender the Brotherhood. It'd be best for everyone.
Why should raiders be fully fleshed out and named? Fallout 4 already has the raiders have ambient dialogue and terminals implying power struggles. Should each raider be fully voiced with a quest involving them and their dead wife? Because I see no way to have raiders be more than cannon fodder. They were like that in NV, 1 and 2, so it's not a new thing to Bethesda.
It depends. I rather liked the Fiends from New Vegas. They were the same raider meat and potatoes as usual, with drugs, violence and cruelty. However, they had been far better integrated with the setting and plot. They relied on drugs, and they bought them from the Khans. There were proof, and surviving victims, of their excesses in the surroundings. While the individual Fiend was cannon fodder, they had a voiced and (reasonably) quested leader, with ambitions and contacts out in the Mojave that tied him and his troops to the overarching plot.
Also, much like the Legion, the game made a very good case for the player to dislike and fight them, through quests and dialogue. Strictly speaking, Bethy-brand raiders are brought accross that way, as well, but the Fiends had a name, place and agenda, in a way that made them feel more engaging than the fairly random gangs in the Commonwealth.
The Commonwealth raiders felt like an occasional pest control service. Meanwhile, taking it upon myself to destroy the Fiends and bring law to the area felt much more fulfilling.
Post by: Krevsin on December 12, 2016, 05:23:28 pm
There is one thing to consider, though. I do not think that the Elder Scrolls would benefit hugely from updating to a different time era. It would be an exorcise for its own sake, most likely, something to patter about during presentations. And it would have to be done carefully, lest they shoot themselves in the foot and reach for the steam punk jar, because anything approaching what could be labeled steam punk in this day and age will have an uphill struggle, no matter its merits.Well you don't need tech advancement, maybe just some political advancement. Empire breaks up, successor states war for a bit and then new polities grow upon its ashes with their own problems.
Like Elder Scrolls Online. But good.
Post by: Neonivek on December 12, 2016, 05:26:29 pm
There is one thing to consider, though. I do not think that the Elder Scrolls would benefit hugely from updating to a different time era. It would be an exorcise for its own sake, most likely, something to patter about during presentations. And it would have to be done carefully, lest they shoot themselves in the foot and reach for the steam punk jar, because anything approaching what could be labeled steam punk in this day and age will have an uphill struggle, no matter its merits.Well you don't need tech advancement, maybe just some political advancement. Empire breaks up, successor states war for a bit and then new polities grow upon its ashes with their own problems.
Like Elder Scrolls Online. But good.
What is funny is that Skyrim almost forces there to be some sort of setting advancement...
But I bet absolutely nothing actually changes next game :P
Post by: Silverthrone on December 12, 2016, 05:42:06 pm
Post by: Krevsin on December 12, 2016, 05:54:55 pm
The polities in ES are what the plot needs them to be. Nothing more, nothing less.
Post by: Silverthrone on December 12, 2016, 06:16:53 pm
I'm not quite so sure. But I think we will know whenever the next installment rolls around. Nonetheless, if that is the case, I cannot complain if it is at least modelled and do serve the plot it has been steered towards.
As for Fallout, I suppose about the only thing that will significantly change, and could be a spot to speculate on, is what ruined major city in the United States the series will visit next?
Post by: Jimmy on December 12, 2016, 06:19:08 pm
What's weird is that they gave the synths capacity for desire, emotion, and other things generally inconducive to indentured servitude, then made them indentured servants.
I think it's unintentional and unnoticed, several Institute NPCs say that Synths do not feel or think, just simulate doing so.
When freshly made or mind wiped they have no personality beyond whats' programmed into the mechanical bits of their brain, but they seem to develop from there like a child would, piecing things together from experiences and memories.
They were made to learn and emulate humans, it's necessary for them to learn complex tasks, combat skills and infiltrate societies. The Institute just doesn't think they've gotten past the simulation stage of things, which is actually kind of reasonable, when you can program something to feel or not feel emotions, to think of others as family members despite being wholly unrelated, create an entire fake mind even, why should you think any of the things they claim to feel are more than just glitches in the programming?
I'll stick the rest of my reply behind spoilers since it deals a fair bit with the big reveal when you finally reach the Institute in the game.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In my opinion, a Sole Survivor at the helm of the Institute has the power to turn the Commonwealth around and create a nation of prosperity and peace from it. Gen 1 and Gen 2 synths mass produced and scouring the wastes of danger sounds pretty good for humanity. Super Mutants are a dying breed in the Commonwealth since there's no open sources of FEV, at least according to what's shown in the game. Feral ghouls are a pretty easy problem to solve if you hire a bunch of ghoul mercs from Goodneighbor to go in with tommy guns blazing wherever they're nesting. Overall, I think an Institute ending to Fallout 4 is a damned sight better than a bunch of guerrillas without a cause, a half-trained farmer militia or a bunch of power-armor cowboys who would blow advanced technology up just to stop other people having it. The BoS is honestly the only other faction worth considering for leadership of the Commonwealth, but to put it bluntly they're essentially a foreign power conquering the land by force of arms.
Post by: Silverthrone on December 12, 2016, 06:29:01 pm
I do wish there was a way to convince them to stop the advanced synth production, and focus on the more reliable, earlier models. They do not seem much worse at fighting than the Gen 3 ones, and are likely quite a lot cheaper. None of the ethics, less of the suspicion, no reason for the Railroad to be more cross, with maybe a small loss in efficiency. But the silver pyjamas people seem quite set in their way...
Post by: Jimmy on December 12, 2016, 06:39:33 pm
Post by: Glloyd on December 12, 2016, 06:45:36 pm
Just like Morrowind, which also had a plot that affected the greater state of the empire and world at large and then just never came up again. :P
The polities in ES are what the plot needs them to be. Nothing more, nothing less.
Or fucking Daggerfall, in which they made all endings canon because fuck sense.
Post by: Silverthrone on December 12, 2016, 06:53:56 pm
That's all thanks to Father. If only you could wait for the old geezer to kick the bucket before the events of Bunker Hill, the ending would probably come out a lot happier. Sadly the diseased sack of psychopath is scripted to live just long enough to screw everything up royally before fucking off this mortal coil in his space-coffin.
Hear, hear.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Just like Morrowind, which also had a plot that affected the greater state of the empire and world at large and then just never came up again. :P
The polities in ES are what the plot needs them to be. Nothing more, nothing less.
Or fucking Daggerfall, in which they made all endings canon because fuck sense.
I rather like it, in an odd way. I would have prefered a solid, chosen ending, but as far as plot spackle go, the Dragon Break is probably the one I mind the least. It is a method that works reasonably well with silly old Nirn. I would have them all flogged if they tried something similar in their Fallouts, however...
Post by: BFEL on December 12, 2016, 11:37:55 pm
In my opinion, a Sole Survivor at the helm of the Institute has the power to turn the Commonwealth around and create a nation of prosperity and peace from it.A player character at the helm of literally anything has the power to create a nation of prosperity and peace from it. Or would, if Bethesda could write like Obsidian can.
Seriously, even the Nuka World raider gangs could end up a egalitarian governing body if you have a [player values here] godlike figure running them for long enough.
There's pretty much nothing we COULDN'T vastly improve over the buttmonkeys Beth wrote as the major players, since most of us are reasonable 3 dimensional people instead of the caricatures that head things in game.
Post by: nenjin on December 13, 2016, 12:14:30 am
Players of Bethesda games have built a whole self-driven narrative culture out of their playthroughs. Bethesda just needs to provide some context (even if that context is "no I don't want to do the fucking main quest") for players to go nuts with it. It'd be nice if they'd elevate their game, but every time morality being coded into the game comes up players have rejected it. (Remember the two reputation systems from FO3 and NV?) Sure the answer is always "just do better" but from Bethesda's perspective, why should they? Their games still sell like mad when they release and players continually generate more crap which makes new players pick it up or old players revisit it and who eventually have to say "yeah it was worth the money" just by sheer dint of played hours alone, forget whatever meaningful enjoyment they get out of it.
Yeah it's a cynical attitude but after THIS many games in the same engine, doing the same kind of thing, with the same game design values prevailing every time...I've given up on expecting Bethesda to really change. They're already invested in generating 1,000 quests voiced by the same 10 people and filling an entire world with enough points of interest that game feels fleshed out. They'd need to do all that....then actually hammer out the kind of living world stuff players keep asking for. Which is a tall order. We forgive what mods do in pursuit of this stuff because they're mods. If Bethesda takes a crack at it and 20 hours in your meticulously arranged RPG scenario crumbles due to bugs.....then people shit all over them for their effort.
I mean, take a look at settlement building. I'm one of those people that likes it. Despite its pretty gaping holes in content and implementation, and the BS monetization of simply adding objects to the build menus, I think it was a legit effort at broadening the base of the game. Did the majority of fans see it that way? Hell no. Most of them shit all over settlement building and everything it stands for, despite it being a lynch pin in the narratives people like to tell about themselves in this game. "What is the this crap? Settlements don't matter in the end so why did they even bother." So.....why should they even bother trying? Sales are up, it's the same 'ol Bethesda it's always been to most players, so why try anything dramatic? They can safely make another ES game and another FO game and they will be bought and swooned over and streamed, with or without the living world/choices matter stuff people have always been wanting from their games but never getting.
I think given a long enough time span, Bethesda may one day make their games actually alive. The two questions I have though is: how many titles will that take, and will I actually still be alive to see them?
Post by: Neonivek on December 13, 2016, 12:35:28 am
Settlements are a way of gaining money, resources, as well as getting extra little tidbits in the story? Amazing! Now lets bog it down it with terrible looking buildings, sloppy aweful job prioritization, Gawd awful trade rooting in two unique flavors of suck, annoying constant events that instantly destroy a location if you don't do it... and the list goes on... and on... Anyone who LIKES the settlement system likes it IN SPITE of these facts not because it is a genuinely good system.
THEN there is the fact that the settlement system like ALL Bethesda's narrative systems is also half-baked even further because even though you are "Rebuilding the wasteland" it isn't typically recognized.... None of the benefits that SHOULD stem from it are used... Yada yada... This is like becoming the Arch-Mage in Oblivion all over again.
So basically if Bethesda ever goes "Well Fans don't want a settlement system" and point to Fallout 4... they deserve to be slapped in the face. Implementing something in a terrible way typically does have the effect that no one will like it except the outliers.
It is actually one of the worst aspects of game companies.
Post by: Krevsin on December 13, 2016, 02:50:33 am
I do enjoy settlement building but that's because I enjoy building stuff and wiring it up. I love it in spite of all the radiant quest bullshittery, the total lack of delegation and a more elegant system to manage my citizens and of course the fact that no matter how much love and time I direct at them, I'm still going to end up with settlements that despite looking different visually feel exactly the same on a more tangible level because the game has to compensate for the fact that the settlements are player made which always results in painfully obvious reuse of the same lines by the settlers.
I am convinced that if Bethesda made settlement building central to the narrative, it would make for a much better game (and also a better fleshed out system because they'd spend more time on it instead of half-arsing it) and a narrative that fit the playstyle of a Beth open world RPG much more than this wannabe Mass Effect approach.
Post by: Glloyd on December 13, 2016, 04:09:57 am
The thing is, I was totally open to the implementation of settlement building, and it was one of the features I was genuinely excited for. But they just made it such a pain to deal with, that it wasn't even worth it, and I love spending hours just building shit in games that are designed for it. But FO4 isn't designed for it, and it's worse off for that.
The most I managed to do was build one shitty building, then I just gave up and fucked off into the wasteland before discarding the game altogether not long afterwards. Fallout 4 was the worst game I played last year, and I'm still bothered about it because Fallout 2 and NV are some of my favourite games.
Post by: Jimmy on December 13, 2016, 04:17:11 am
Remember folks, as long as it's somewhere on the map, it counts. Your settler doesn't necessarily have to ever get to sleep in their bed.
Post by: Krevsin on December 13, 2016, 04:46:01 am
It's a shame really. Could've been great.
Post by: umiman on December 13, 2016, 05:19:08 am
They're just better, and I like them more. They also work 24/7 without breaks and can be armed with nuclear weapons.
Not to mention you can make all of them only communicate in beeps, which makes me happy.
Also I highly recommend the mods that:
1. Disable attacks altogether.
This seems like super gamey and cheaty, but trust me when you have like 10 settlements, you will NEVER stop seeing settlement attack notices. Also if you play without fast travel it becomes impossible to handle. Besides, the attacks are idiotic anyway. It's just better for your sanity to get rid of them. In fact, you still get radiant quests from settlers directly asking you to help defend their settlements, which I think is significantly better than the random attacks.
2. Increase generator power by 3x.
So you don't have to spam a million generators everywhere.
3. Better settlers.
For better settlers. This way they come with better gear, actual clothes, and look less stupid.
4. Enough about the settlements already, Preston.
Self-descriptive. Shut up, Preston.
5. Higher settlement budget.
Self-descriptive. The normal budget allotment is so tiny you can barely do anything.
6. Immersive vendors.
Make the stores have stocks and stuff so they don't look completely bland.
7. Quieter settlements.
Self-descriptive. So many settlement things are way too noisy like generators and the banging noises.
8. Scrap dead things.
The game has a tendency to leave corpses lying around your settlements. Now you can remove them.
9. Workshop spotlight fix.
If you haven't noticed, spotlights don't work once you fast travel. This makes them work.
Post by: nenjin on December 13, 2016, 07:34:36 pm
For a first iteration it's not that bad. Yes, it's painful. Yes, it's limited. Yes, walking everywhere you need to, to build is a pain in the ass.
But so are most first iterations of everything in video games. People act as though it's the worst thing in the world, like the half million broken and bugged quests in Bethesda games at release aren't an indicator of how Bethesda works through this shit. Like Companion management wasn't bloody worthless in Oblivion and Skyrim. Like looting used to be ridiculously tedious checking every container until FO4 when you could just look at them to know what's in them. Fuck, it's still tedious even with that.
My point is, everyone likes to judge Bethesda games on an individual basis before running out and buying the next thing they make. If you're going to keep buying Bethesda games and bitching about their execution, maybe start looking at the execution over time rather than in isolation. FO4 is easily the most polished and feature-rich game they've made yet. The next one will probably be even more so. The next ES game might have settlement building that is better than the settlement building in FO4. I won't say every Bethesda game has been a straight improvement on the last, because they're not. But if you compare how far they've come from Oblivion, then credit where credit is due.
The other solution is just to quit buying Bethesda games until they "get it right." Which exactly no one is doing.
Post by: Iceblaster on December 13, 2016, 07:38:54 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 13, 2016, 07:46:49 pm
Quote
The next ES game might have settlement building that is better than the settlement building in FO4
Congrats! But that doesn't justify why it is so terrible RIGHT NOW!
Fallout 5 might be the greatest game ever made with a stellar story, balanced mechanics, and a symbolic representation of life...
But I am not going to praise Bethesda for getting it right after these many games. In fact the whole "stop complaining" thing... is moot because the only reason Bethesda changed it is BECAUSE people complained.
The reason I give other publishers slack is that they try to make their games the best game possible. Bethesda has been set on "Passable mode" for a while now. We are mad because we know they can do better and we can see so much squandered potential.
Quote
then credit where credit is due.
In the same way that a child who gets straight Ds, should be praised for getting a C.
No, until Bethesda makes a game that is mechanically and narratively sound... They don't have any credit. Especially since while they have plenty of mechanics that improve, they also have plenty that get worse or that don't change no matter how bad they are. Their improvements are a bandaid. I mean maybe with 100 more games they might make a game that isn't riddled with problems.
Post by: Silverthrone on December 13, 2016, 07:58:57 pm
It is fair to complain. It is perfectly fine. There is a lot of fertile ground for whinge-potatoes. Some things should be called out, and without complaints, how will anything improve? But, to a certain point. One would think that Bethesda products were a leading cause of cancer, at times. Not so much here, mind. The Bay is a rather constructive place, with grievances well explained and warranted. Nonetheless, it might be time to put down the rod once in a while. If nothing else, then to flog the game more efficiently after a brief rest.
There is something they do that I adore, something I cannot get anywhere else. Something that does make me forgive the drawbacks. Mediocre dialogue and characters, silly (but adorably earnest) plots, over-simplification, their long struggle with context, and making everything fit together... And yet, that strange je ne sais quoi keeps bringing me back, and I cannot honestly say that I have not enjoyed my Bethy-brand experiences.
It could be better, and it jolly well ought to be better, but one would think the game boxes shipped with nothing but used stable straw and old bottle caps.
Post by: Neonivek on December 13, 2016, 08:09:51 pm
But... It is all about framing. Bethesda has a silly plot that is framed like it is Casablanca.
Post by: nenjin on December 13, 2016, 08:35:04 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 13, 2016, 08:39:51 pm
It's fun to bash Bethesda, because they can make it so easy. I've done it plenty. But settlement building "being the worst thing ever".....just a little bit over the top.
Ok shoot... what is the worst thing they ever done that is so mishandled and haphazard that it clearly blows settlement building and all its incongruity out of the water?
I mean settlement building is pretty high up there all things considered. I mean maybe the vault DLC settlement building beats it... but it is the same system soo...
It gets bonus points for being so prominent... Settlement building is meant to be a huge part of Fallout 4 and is one of the selling points... Essentially it is at least 25% of the game.
Post by: Silverthrone on December 13, 2016, 08:44:53 pm
Naturally, not a favourable point, and I do hope the complaints eventually pay off.
Post by: Neonivek on December 13, 2016, 08:46:20 pm
It relies on all the characters to be idiots in order to work.
Which wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't so in your face... Even to the extent of holding up the non-twists as if they were genius machinations.
Even a poor story told well... can make you believe something better occurred. Yet Fallout 4s story is told very poorly... Oddly enough this plot is probably the easiest to fix in my mind.
-Step 1: Don't make the Institute the villains. Make this a story about survival and paranoia that escalates the conflict until either they become villains or that there is no villain
-Step 2: Your twist isn't a twist... don't pretend like it is.
Post by: nenjin on December 14, 2016, 12:10:36 am
Objects you need/want falling through the world? Can't leave home without it.
Crashes often? You betcha.
Nightmare fuel model and texture bugs? Oh yeah.
Boring shit list of repetitive dungeons? All the live long day.
Horse armor? Say no more!
I could go on but what is the point. There are many 'worst things ever' in Bethesda games going back to Morrowind that people have bitched about over the years (particularly how they do content) and it's gotten marginally better each iteration. This is just another in the latest of things Bethesda does that the internet loves to rip on them for. And for once, it's something at the end of the day I still enjoy and would rather have in the game than out of it. After this many games, and this many people continually buying the same game knowing who makes it and how the make it, it just starts to get old after a while. Sensible critique is sensible. Hyperbole is not. I loathed Skyrim's rework of the skill system. Worst thing ever? No. Bad? Yes.
Post by: BFEL on December 14, 2016, 06:43:10 am
Cuz if its the second one it would actually be worth getting in survival mode, since no fast travel means getting everything in the area done on the first go is desirable.
Post by: Krevsin on December 14, 2016, 07:49:21 am
I realize I'm defending Bethesda here but....They've had the same terrible fast travel system for 4 games in a row now. Their world design philosophy has been "let's pile interesting shit all over the place with how it all fits together being a hamfisted afterhtought for 4 games in a row. They've been trying to stick a mostly linear RPG plot heavy on grandiose setpieces and imbued with a sense of urgency that entirely collapses when put into an open world RPG for 4. Games. In. A. Row.
For a first iteration it's not that bad. Yes, it's painful. Yes, it's limited. Yes, walking everywhere you need to, to build is a pain in the ass.
But so are most first iterations of everything in video games. People act as though it's the worst thing in the world, like the half million broken and bugged quests in Bethesda games at release aren't an indicator of how Bethesda works through this shit. Like Companion management wasn't bloody worthless in Oblivion and Skyrim. Like looting used to be ridiculously tedious checking every container until FO4 when you could just look at them to know what's in them. Fuck, it's still tedious even with that.
My point is, everyone likes to judge Bethesda games on an individual basis before running out and buying the next thing they make. If you're going to keep buying Bethesda games and bitching about their execution, maybe start looking at the execution over time rather than in isolation. FO4 is easily the most polished and feature-rich game they've made yet. The next one will probably be even more so. The next ES game might have settlement building that is better than the settlement building in FO4. I won't say every Bethesda game has been a straight improvement on the last, because they're not. But if you compare how far they've come from Oblivion, then credit where credit is due.
The other solution is just to quit buying Bethesda games until they "get it right." Which exactly no one is doing.
I see the changes they've made in some areas but they haven't learned anything about how to make an open world RPG's world and narrative work. 4 games. in a row. After Morrowind, a game which actually got large chunks of it right.
Bethesda may have learned but they haven't learned any of the right lessons. At least Fallout 4 was a step in a right direction. A tiny, timid step followed by half a mile's worth of backtracking but a tiny step nontheless.
The worst thing ever? No, not really. Their games are still mighty fine wandering simulators. But they fall apart whenever plot or worldbuilding comes into play. So while not the worst thing ever, it's still incredibly disappointing.
Post by: Arbinire on December 14, 2016, 08:22:38 am
What people are frustrated with is the regressive attitude they have taken with their storytelling, especially so with the Fallout franchise. And the solution is insanely simple. Stop trying to make the main character of the game the player, make the main character the setting in which the player's character lives in.
Post by: Iceblaster on December 14, 2016, 09:52:47 am
Post by: Egan_BW on December 14, 2016, 10:07:15 am
Post by: Iceblaster on December 14, 2016, 10:11:19 am
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 14, 2016, 10:36:09 am
Post by: Iceblaster on December 14, 2016, 11:00:40 am
EDIT: I don't see all the complaints about quality. NV is a buggy mess that needs an unofficial patch to fix it and has a shitton of cut content, but 4 works out of the box and requires no mods to fix cut content or patches. It may not have fifty dialogue options and speech checks for every thing, but it's still a good game :/
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 14, 2016, 11:17:53 am
Post by: Krevsin on December 14, 2016, 11:51:57 am
And here I am, just enjoying the game for its merits and not dissecting it against every other game in Bethesda's twenty year(?) history. Is that bad? Am I the cancer on gaming that I am complacent in a decent game with fun mechanics? :PIt's not just every other Bethesda game, it's also every other RPG I've ever played. :P
I do like the game, but I find it lacking. My criticism does not come from hatred for Bethesda and all they've done. If I didn't like the games, I wouldn't talk about them at all because I've only got a limited amount of things I can remember and "things I hate" isn't high on the priority list. I admire Bethesda for what they do but I find it lacking in key areas. I do not point out those flaws in order to "shit on the game" as the kids call it these days but because I genuinely want Bethesda to do better.
Not that I expect a lot of key designers from Bethesda browse these forums but hey, those who never speak are the ones who are never heard :P
Honestly, on modding, I think you should not hold 4's up to NV's and 3's so quickly. It's only been a year. I'm pretty sure NV and 3 had a shit modding scene when it first came out/a year on. Give it some time to mature.I couldn't play Fallout 4 out of the box because the game wouldn't run at all. I had to do ini file tweaks and change my monitor's resolution in order to be able to run it.
EDIT: I don't see all the complaints about quality. NV is a buggy mess that needs an unofficial patch to fix it and has a shitton of cut content, but 4 works out of the box and requires no mods to fix cut content or patches. It may not have fifty dialogue options and speech checks for every thing, but it's still a good game :/
NV was playable with the occassional CTD for me and that went away with the official patches for the most part. It most certainly wasn't buggier than Fallout 4 is right now (about on par) and the cut content did not impact the game too much except that it made one of the factions shallower, but even then it was still far more interesting and less chronically dumb than any of Fallout 4's factions. Fallout 4 is a decent game but compared to other things on the market it's lagging behind.
Also the main problem with Fallout 4's modding scene right now is that the game is still being patched on a semi-regular basis with patches that break mods. Give it a couple months, maybe half a year so the patching process stops.
I honestly never had problems with bugs in NV. Maybe I got lucky. As for the cut content, I don't think I've ever played it. I thought the game was pretty amazing on my vanilla plus DLC run through. It had plenty of content as it stood, though my views may be skewed by the fact that I did play it with the DLC. Other than the extra gear, I'm not sure how much of an effect that had on the vanilla map's content.It added some additional talking points for the NPCs and changed some lines of dialogue to include some of the DLC content IIRC.
Post by: Iceblaster on December 14, 2016, 11:58:16 am
Post by: Krevsin on December 14, 2016, 12:04:04 pm
Meh. I guess I overreacted. Honestly, I just hate that most discussions about Fallout 4 tend to devolve into 'here's ten reasons why new vegas was better' or 'i will now spend six paragraphs talking about how shit fallout 4 is.' Sooo, yeah. Kinda makes me feel like I'm the outlier in online communities :PWell, New Vegas is better plain and simple. The shooting is worse, but its story and world are superior in almost every aspect (apart from environmental variety because NV is mostly just desert, desert, some urban desert, New Vegas, desert, old abandoned buildings, desert and an occassional bunker. Also did I mention the desert?)
Kinda hard to get around those discussions when there exists a superior game within the series itself. :P
Post by: Iceblaster on December 14, 2016, 12:36:27 pm
The point is, is that I seem to see a trend where New Vegas is brought up when it has no relation to Fallout 4 simply because it's a game in the franchise. I want to discuss fallout 4, not New Vegas.
i mean, we could just have the next game be a remaster of new vegas and then again on a new engine and again and again.
Post by: Krevsin on December 14, 2016, 12:43:21 pm
Also games are going to be compared to other games within their genre. The same applies for any media.
Post by: Iceblaster on December 14, 2016, 12:47:45 pm
but meh. who cares. just a game :P
Post by: Krevsin on December 14, 2016, 12:56:02 pm
Anyway, to offset the balance of the thread let me gush about an aspect of Fallout 4 I absolutely adore.
I really like the art direction of the game. I adore that they doubled down on the retrofuturism of the setting and thus made it visually distinct from the flood of generic postapocalyptic games that seems to have befallen us in recent years. I love the fact that the world has vibrancy and colour to it and yet still feels desolate and dangerous. I love the redesigned mirelurks and how the feral ghouls move around, dodge you and throw themselves at you after climbing out of nooks and crannies and plopping from the ceiling with a moist thud sound.
But most of all I love the shape and look of protectrons. Seriously they are the best. I love them and I want a model of one. I liked protectrons in 3 and NV as well but only in Fallout 4 they look really amazing.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So while Fallout 4 doesn't have the finest graphics ever created, I truly do love the art direction of the game. It's just a game that I like looking at, despite its textures not being the most detailed or the occassional clipping. It's just a good-looking game IMO.
Post by: Iceblaster on December 14, 2016, 12:58:52 pm
Also, I really wish they brought in the Centaurs. The concept art was delightfully horrifying.
Post by: Krevsin on December 14, 2016, 01:01:58 pm
Post by: Iceblaster on December 14, 2016, 01:05:21 pm
Post by: Sergius on December 14, 2016, 03:04:59 pm
So anyone use the V.A.N.S. perk? Kinda wondering if it means it points to the closest quest out of your ACTIVE quests, or the closest one out of ALL your quests.
Cuz if its the second one it would actually be worth getting in survival mode, since no fast travel means getting everything in the area done on the first go is desirable.
I've used VANS when I've got really lost trying to figure out how to get to some damn rooftop (because the door is too obscured or something), but only if I have a perk point lying around and then immediately go back to my latest savegame.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 14, 2016, 07:20:02 pm
Null's insane fan theory (disclaimer, this is just for fun, I don't believe for a second that this is true): Elder Maxson is not who he claims to be.
Following the events of Broken Steel, the Lone Wanderer decides that the Brotherhood needs to be restructured to better cope with the larger problems of the wasteland. Finding Lyons and most of his loyalists unwilling to consider a more militaristic preventative approach, the Wanderer approaches the Outcasts and under cover of reunifying the two factions orchestrates the removal of all high command loyalists. Over several years the Wanderer erases as much of Lyons' BoS as possible, including squire Maxson, then assumes direct command. In order to further their goals the Wanderer begins impersonating Maxson, regaining the West Coast Brotherhood's Elders trust and cooperation.
Stupid motivation stuff: the Wanderer feels insecure in the wasteland, having seen how unstable it is they begin to unconsciously emulate the most relevant authority figure they know, Overseer Almodovar. The Wanderer first assumes Maxson's identity in a panic, to respond to a west-coast BoS communique, and later decides that becoming Maxson would be advantageous as it would lend greater weight to their leadership, not to mention that the Lone Wanderer's exploits make for a natural Brotherhood 'hero' figure (killing a Deathclaw solo anyone?)
There, insane theory for your amusement.
Post by: Grim Portent on December 14, 2016, 07:59:08 pm
My take on it is:
Maxson's hero figures as a child were Sarah Lyons and the Lone Wanderer, two figures with extensive combat experience and a preference for military solutions to problems, and Elder Lyons who he respected as a leader when he was a child but later viewed as misguided.
Sarah Lyons died in combat, probably before Elder Lyons died, while fighting super mutants to defend the Capital Wasteland. The Lone Wanderer did as their name implies and wandered away to carry on their adventures in the wastes, pursuing whatever whims and drives motivated them after the death of their father. Elder Lyons died with no clear successor and was succeeded by a series of ineffective leaders with little skill at command who frittered the Brotherhood away trying to pursue Lyon's goals.
So his soldier hero died a martyr, his outsider hero left after his duty was done proving the merit of wastelanders to him, though also their unreliability, and his peaceful childhood leader died and had his legacy disgraced by those who came after him. Maxson winds up spending a lot of his youth as a soldier under the command of ineffective leaders with no military experience and few concrete goals.
Being part of the military branch of the Brotherhood, as well as having had a great deal of respect for soldiers in his childhood and having been taught the Maxson line was one of strong leadership and tradition he comes to the conclusion that the Brotherhood needs military leadership, a strong hand at the helm and to reshape itself without the isolationism of the West Coast Brotherhood or the soft hand of Lyons' Brotherhood. Absorbing the Outcasts contributes to the new perspective of the Brotherhood as it takes on some of their animosity to outsiders.
This leads to the new East Coast Brotherhood, highly militant, authoritarian, interventionist, short on mercy, more than a little paranoid, with more authority granted to the military branch over the scientific and administrative branches. Maxson expands recruitment to keep numbers up as he steps up their operation to kill all feral ghouls and mutants in the Capital Wasteland, and sends out scouts to look for threats and possible resources in nearby areas, which leads to the invasion of the Commonwealth.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on December 14, 2016, 08:30:44 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 14, 2016, 09:33:07 pm
I think it makes more sense to think in terms of the canon version, if only because Maxson is too young to be the Lone Wanderer by a good ten years or so, though there are other reasons besides that.
My take on it is:
snip
The reason I came up with this is that the depiction of Maxson in 4 is too old, he looks like he's in his thirties (actually rather like mid to late thirties), or at least in his late twenties. Maxson should look much younger than 'thesda's model of him and I am saying this as someone who looks much older than my age, have done so since my mid-teens, and have experienced a lot of 'hard living' I've had grey and white since I was twenty-seven.
Also, it's an insane theory, just for fun.
Post by: Draignean on December 15, 2016, 01:03:56 am
The first little kerfuffle you get into with Mole Rats at the Red-Rocket gas station? Tense as hell with the current settings.
Spoiler: Flashlight Off (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Flashlight On (click to show/hide)
Spawns and global damage are increased.It's occasionally a very good idea to take advantage of the darkness, snuff your light, and hide in the closest corner you can find.
Post by: Jimmy on December 15, 2016, 02:40:21 am
Linky for mod?
Post by: Krevsin on December 15, 2016, 06:30:25 am
Or he could be a young man made old before his time by the fact that he lived in a near-permanent state of war. That happens sometimes.I think it makes more sense to think in terms of the canon version, if only because Maxson is too young to be the Lone Wanderer by a good ten years or so, though there are other reasons besides that.
My take on it is:
snip
The reason I came up with this is that the depiction of Maxson in 4 is too old, he looks like he's in his thirties (actually rather like mid to late thirties), or at least in his late twenties. Maxson should look much younger than 'thesda's model of him and I am saying this as someone who looks much older than my age, have done so since my mid-teens, and have experienced a lot of 'hard living' I've had grey and white since I was twenty-seven.
Also, it's an insane theory, just for fun.
Post by: Jimmy on December 15, 2016, 06:59:38 am
[wiggles fingers]
Post by: SOLDIER First on December 15, 2016, 07:03:08 am
Post by: Iceblaster on December 15, 2016, 08:36:48 am
I realize this started a number of pages back, but I just wanted to chime in with muh two cents. Settlement building is bad in FO4 because it's almost a direct copy of the RTS: Real Time Settler mod first developed for FO3--just sayin'. At least in style of the building mechanics with some other resource managment tacked on.
That's because it is. I believe they asked the developer for help.
Post by: Neonivek on December 15, 2016, 08:37:23 am
synths don't age
You say when the game shows that yes they do in fact age. :P
Post by: Iceblaster on December 15, 2016, 08:38:47 am
Post by: Draignean on December 15, 2016, 09:54:07 am
Interesting. Looks good. Does this mod retain alerted enemies as red pips on the HUD or remove them like in Survival mode?
Linky for mod?
Well, it's actually several mods.
Enhanced Blood: Because Horror Needs More Blood
More Spawns: What's better than flicking on your flashlight and being face to face with a raging ghoul? Flicking on your flashlight and being face to face with ten ghouls!
Pip-Boy-Shadows: Shadows are a horror thing. Definitely.
Realistic Survival Damage: Kind of necessary when you consider the increased spawns.
Interiors Enhanced- Darker Ambient Light and Fog: Bring the darkness...
Pip-Boy Flashlight: Strangle the light....
True Storms: Wasteland Edition 1.4 Because driving rain cut only occasionally by brilliant lightning will definitely improve visibility.
Darker Nights 1.11: ( set toDarkest, also the one with the option for perpetual night) This is the bread and butter, and takes you 80% of the way to pitch blackness. However, it can't quite get you all the way there, and is rather disappointing- since it's as close as you can get with standard mods.
Tactical Flashlights: Just some items so that some human NPCs will spawn with lights and NOT wonder around outside like goddamn mole people.
Reverb and Ambiance Overhaul: Again, amping up the horror vibe. Firing a gun outside sometimes makes it feel like you're the only person in a sea of monsters.
Digital Nightmare Music overhaul: Not sure about the combat music, but the exploration stuff is spot on.
Fallout 4 enhanced color correction: Compensates for the ENB we're about to talk about and makes things in the light seem more alive and vibrant.
Now, because F4 has no brightness setting (Which I actually couldn't believe when I first tried to tweak it) things get interesting when going for pitch black. Darkest nights and darker interiors, even at their max settings, still let you see. It's dark, sure, but you can still operate just fine and you're not in danger of missing anything. The worst it will do is cause mild eye strain.
Now, when looking through ENBs, I found one called Lost Light. It basically wanted to polarize light conditions, so the brights got brighter and the darks got darker. Even better, it had a warning on it that said that, if you used darker nights, you would probably have to use a brighter setting there to compensate for the ENB. So, installed the ENB framework and boom- pitch blackness.
EDIT: Haven't got around to styling the UI yet. Will probably do that as well, right now I just wanted to get the graphical feel I was going for down strong.
Post by: Sergius on December 17, 2016, 10:05:39 pm
- I like the extra deadliness of everything. And of course the XP buff.
- I'm OK with management of hunger, sleep, thirst. Doesn't make me super happy but it's like an extra challenge. I wish I didn't have to drink like one water/3 mutt steaks per minute.
- I'm ambivalent about the NO FAST TRAVEL. At least it forces me into more encounters, which in turn mean more action and MOAR EXPS.
- I don't care about the NO SAVE, like *at all*. In practice it makes me go from one mattress to the next, to the point that I end up mapping every single one, running back and forth mid-quest just so I can save my progress. And in the cases where I die and didn't save, having to go thru the exact same path, ugh, and not even mentioning if I did ANY dialogue at all, like if I was in a town trying to talk to everyone. So I reload and just... skip that shit. I don't talk to them ever again.
So, I'm starting by installing a couple mods, to restore the Save menu, and an aid item that quicksaves.
EDIT: Oh yeah, also now stimpacks are stupid, because they make you thirsty, and drinking purified water heals you about as much as the stimpack itself. So you can just drink the water instead (a reason not to drink as soon as the Thirst icon appears, instead wait until you need some healing).
EDIT 2: Forgot to mention, no saving is specially annoying when you do something completely trivial like opening the Workshop inventory to drop stuff before saving, and it crashes the game to the desktop.
Post by: Neonivek on December 17, 2016, 10:10:31 pm
Maxson isn't a synth tho. He has no synth component when he dies.
I don't mean "get older" so to speak... they age the same way a vacuum cleaner ages :P
Though given how they are biological and synthetic... There is no reason why they shouldn't actually physically age.
And if they aren't even partially organic... then everyone is an idiot.
Post by: umiman on December 17, 2016, 10:23:40 pm
Well, after going 20 levels in Survival Mode without any "cheats" mods, here are my opinions:Reduce the timescale to 6. It'll make it so you don't have to eat / sleep / drink every minute.
- I like the extra deadliness of everything. And of course the XP buff.
- I'm OK with management of hunger, sleep, thirst. Doesn't make me super happy but it's like an extra challenge. I wish I didn't have to drink like one water/3 mutt steaks per minute.
- I'm ambivalent about the NO FAST TRAVEL. At least it forces me into more encounters, which in turn mean more action and MOAR EXPS.
- I don't care about the NO SAVE, like *at all*. In practice it makes me go from one mattress to the next, to the point that I end up mapping every single one, running back and forth mid-quest just so I can save my progress. And in the cases where I die and didn't save, having to go thru the exact same path, ugh, and not even mentioning if I did ANY dialogue at all, like if I was in a town trying to talk to everyone. So I reload and just... skip that shit. I don't talk to them ever again.
So, I'm starting by installing a couple mods, to restore the Save menu, and an aid item that quicksaves.
Post by: Jimmy on December 18, 2016, 12:05:34 am
When I reached Greygarden I did their location quest to clear out Weston Water Treatment Plant and snagged a big bag of eggs, then cleaned out Beantown Brewery of empty beer bottles for crafting a crapload of dirty water. Never worry about hunger again!
Also, noodle cups weigh the same amount as purified water, restore the same amount of health as purified water, and restore both hunger and thirst. Set up a razorgrain farm and carry noodle cups instead.
Post by: Krevsin on December 18, 2016, 04:31:43 am
Here's one thing that really annoys me about vanilla Survival, it's that using stimpaks dehydrates you. That means I don't use them at all and just sell them off except for a small batch i keep around to heal limb damage. Stimpaks become kind of useless because food heals you just as fast and you're already packing loads of it with you to combat hunger and thirst on longer hikes.
Post by: Neonivek on December 18, 2016, 04:33:30 am
So I uninstalled it.
Post by: Jimmy on December 18, 2016, 04:47:23 am
Post by: Neonivek on December 18, 2016, 04:50:38 am
If you're playing Survival mode you don't need a mod to craft dirty water. Any empty bottle, such as milk bottles or beer bottles, will let you collect dirty water from a water source, or purified water from a water pump in one of your settlements.
Goodness it turns out this ENTIRE time that well water and spring water wasn't irradiated.
Also that people in this setting have very radioactive pee... in fact so radioactive that it actually turns porcelain radioactive just through contact.
Mind you this is because there was an experiement to genetically alter people so that the uric acid is turned into a liquid uranium mix... It is actually where Nuka Cola gets its flavor.
Post by: Krevsin on December 18, 2016, 04:52:47 am
The principle idea of changing power armor into a more vehicle-like thing instead of a wearable and limiting its usage through fusion cores are both solid ideas but need some serious additional work and polish. Power armor as it is now is presented to you as a solution to fighting hard fights but unfortunately in standard Fallout 4 all enemies except some bosses are balanced around you not being in power armor.
I like that they changed power armour into something more than just "here's the best armour in the game, wear it always and never take it off" but the way they did it is clumsy and indicative of the fact that Bethesda doesn't really know how to make open world RPGs and would much rather do something like Mass Effect, a much more linear (albeit branching) type thing.
Also seriously fuck how common Power armor is. Fucking raiders now have power armour. Raiders. Chrissake. And don't give me no lip about how it's a frame now and it makes sense that people would weld stuff onto it, why the shit are the frames so bloody common then. Power armor is supposed to be a rare thing and facing off against someone in power armour should be a terrifying prospect. Not a common sight when clearing raider nests.
If you're playing Survival mode you don't need a mod to craft dirty water. Any empty bottle, such as milk bottles or beer bottles, will let you collect dirty water from a water source, or purified water from a water pump in one of your settlements.But I need glass for building. I don't want to spend potentially valuable glass on getting water. Also it peeves me that drinking RADIOACTIVE WATER and eating RADIOACTIVE FOOD is somehow fine-but-a-bit-annoying.
Post by: Jimmy on December 18, 2016, 04:59:26 am
Post by: Neonivek on December 18, 2016, 04:59:48 am
The fact that you can't walk 30 feet without finding other fully intact or experimental power armor... is something else.
It kind of recreates the whole "Here is power armor, never take it off" into "ALWAYS BE IN POWER ARMOR!"
In fact the only reason Power Armor isn't always necessary is because of the other problem... The existence of this new Power Armor forces the game to always account for the existence of power armor. Thus Power Armor instead of being the highest tier of armor you can find in the game with cool and interesting abilities like they were before... Are the Nuke Option! A Win button.
It needed one of THREE things to happen to exist without these problems
1) Power Armor needed to appear near the late game
2) Power Armor needed different levels of Power Armor that eventually built to its super powered levels
or my preferred method
3) There were alternatives to Power Armor (like if normal armor was decent).
Even the "But Power Cores are scarce" are sort of a flimsy one because lets ASSUME they were... They are still a "I win" button...
Heck I don't even like the whole Power Core Gameplay because it kind of rewrites all the previous games to make way for their new canon... ALSO Why are Power Cores batteries when they are supposed to be mini-nuclear plants? and why can they exist for hundreds of years in good condition powering an entire town... but get drained to nothing powering a single hydraulic suit?
Post by: BlackFlyme on December 18, 2016, 05:01:55 am
Not that we are ever wanting for more frames. The surplus many players have is bad enough already.
Post by: Krevsin on December 18, 2016, 05:05:05 am
Kind of like in Morrowind where you start off by having to walk everywhere or taking the
It'd feel like a reward or a cool toy to play with instead of a "press to win" button.
Post by: Jimmy on December 18, 2016, 05:05:42 am
Post by: Krevsin on December 18, 2016, 05:07:51 am
Post by: TheBronzePickle on December 18, 2016, 05:31:56 am
I think the saddest thing about Fallout 4 is that it's a lot of unfulfilled potential. All the systems they added into the game add so little to the experience. The weapon upgrades are too linear and end up, for the most part, being kind of boring and predictable. Unique weapons barely matter because you can almost always find weapons with the same properties by just playing long enough and fighting the right enemies. The settlements are almost completely unrewarding because they offer negligible benefits to the rest of the game. And the 'Radiant' quest system is possibly the most boring thing ever because there's only 3 or 4 different quests that boil down to doing the same thing in different places over and over.
That's on top of the fact that Bethesda can't write any more. The very world of Fallout is so interesting, but they consistently fail to exploit it except in the most shallow ways possible.
Post by: Neonivek on December 18, 2016, 05:59:05 am
I am not sure they ever told a worse story in their games... Though Skyrim sure gets close with its "War to end all wars! this way will be sooo bloody that nothing will change or matter once it has occurred!"
Post by: BlackFlyme on December 18, 2016, 06:06:39 am
Post by: Edmus on December 18, 2016, 07:24:37 am
Spoiler: actual spoiler (click to show/hide)
The story itself is pretty weak and the replay-ability and allowance for role playing were both very disappointing, but I did enjoy how gut wrenching having to betray followers was, and the fact that the vast majority of the story's impact was reliant on these totally optional chatacters was interesting.
Edit:
At least we didn't have a backstory in recent Elder Scrolls games. It never even weighed in on the stories. 'Cuz it didn't exist.Something that Obsidian is fond of doing. KOTOR 2 is quite impressive in managing your character's backstory in that you don't know it but your character does.
Post by: Jimmy on December 18, 2016, 07:28:14 am
Post by: SOLDIER First on December 18, 2016, 01:20:19 pm
Post by: miauw62 on December 18, 2016, 01:41:38 pm
I am at least willing to forgive its skill system on the basis that they never done it before... but the storytelling is abysmal...I've never actually completed Skyrim's main quest, but I found it quite immersive, and I think that's what really matters. It was much harder for me to immerse myself in Fallout 4, which is why I haven't played it since it came out...
I am not sure they ever told a worse story in their games... Though Skyrim sure gets close with its "War to end all wars! this way will be sooo bloody that nothing will change or matter once it has occurred!"
I also agree that Power Armor is a shitty implementation of a great idea.
Post by: Neonivek on December 18, 2016, 01:46:12 pm
Quote
I've never actually completed Skyrim's main quest
I can tell, because you said "Main quest" when referring to Skyrim.
Post by: SOLDIER First on December 18, 2016, 02:53:37 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 18, 2016, 03:18:24 pm
Ah, the classic "Skyrim's plot sucks so I will brazenly deny its existence" routine. Bravo, Neon.
No that is definitely not what I was getting at.
But I'll give you a clue: "Main Quest"... Notice a problem there when referring to Skyrim a game I assume you played?
Also why harp on me when BlackFlyme actually DID say that?
Post by: Draignean on December 18, 2016, 03:33:53 pm
Ah, the classic "Skyrim's plot sucks so I will brazenly deny its existence" routine. Bravo, Neon.
To be fair, Skyrim doesn't so much have a main quest as it does a primary side quest. Aside from a couple of milestones, there really isn't a feeling that Alduin is actually up to terribly much while you're off suplexing necrophiles in ice caves and stabbing trees with knives. They only up the ante until you get done with Whiterun's part, and then things pretty much just... stick. No one seems to be particularly endangered, no cities get kvatch'ed, it's just business as usual + dragons.
You get a similar thing with Fallout 4, where things seem to be kicking off when the BoS shows up in their party boat, but then the world has to sort of hang around and wait for the player to get done rescuing micro-breweries in order for anything to happen so that the player doesn't feel left out when the world does something without them.
It's a problem endemic to the genre. The main quest of a true open-world game is typically some static thing that really doesn't get worse over time. The big bad sits threateningly on the horizon, politely waiting until the hero is good and ready to stop it.
Honestly, the revolution in Skyrim is better set up as the main questline. The player gets little reminders of that constantly, and they have a chance to make a choice and permanently alter
Post by: Krevsin on December 18, 2016, 03:49:43 pm
It's a problem endemic to the genre. The main quest of a true open-world game is typically some static thing that really doesn't get worse over time. The big bad sits threateningly on the horizon, politely waiting until the hero is good and ready to stop it.Pretty much, sticking a conventional "Oh No The Big Bad Is Coming To Kill Us All" story into an open world game is a recipe for failure. These types of games are much better at telling stories about situations that are tense but not immediately threatening. A nation simmering with revolt and instability into which the player is thrown, with their actions bringing it ever closer to the boiling point. Morrowind did this quite well for the most part, as did Dragon Age Inquisition IMO.
Quests that are all about urgency and such do not gel well with this type of game and should as such be avoided if possible. Plots that are all about urgency and such just don't tend to work well at all.
Post by: Iceblaster on December 18, 2016, 04:05:19 pm
Post by: Edmus on December 18, 2016, 04:08:48 pm
Oh noes the Reapers are murderising everything, but make sure to fly across the entire galaxy and back to complete that side quest!
Post by: BlackFlyme on December 18, 2016, 04:16:04 pm
Also why harp on me when BlackFlyme actually DID say that?
Que? I'm talking about backstories, not the plot. We never had any backstories beyond "prisoner" in most Elder Scrolls games, so our characters were blank slates, whose background had no bearing on the story.
Post by: Krevsin on December 18, 2016, 04:19:49 pm
Post by: Jimmy on December 18, 2016, 06:28:11 pm
Is he there from the beginning of the game, or is there a certain point in the story where he shows up?He's present in person disguised as Diamond City Security during the fight between Piper and Mayor McDonough.
He's seen impersonating a caravan worker in Bunker Hill.
He's seen in Goodneighbour as a drifter, shows up during Hancock's speech, and also shows up inside one of the pods in the memory den.
There's also a fan theory that he's been watching you ever since you emerged from Vault 111. This is based on the Railroad watchpost west of the vault entrance, pictured here (http://i.imgur.com/4dkj9jc.png). Of course PAM calls you an unexpected variable, so that theory's somewhat shaky.
Post by: Rolan7 on December 18, 2016, 06:31:00 pm
Though I disagree, I think the world-ending dragon thing is clearly the main quest. The civil war is a pretty big deal I guess, but not obviously apocalyptic, and it's also completely optional to even begin.
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on December 18, 2016, 08:17:29 pm
Post by: Persus13 on December 18, 2016, 08:51:30 pm
Post by: wierd on December 18, 2016, 09:11:17 pm
I think Neo's hinting about the civil war questline as if it's equally important, and thus Skyrim has no one main plot?
Though I disagree, I think the world-ending dragon thing is clearly the main quest. The civil war is a pretty big deal I guess, but not obviously apocalyptic, and it's also completely optional to even begin.
From a lore perspective, the ultimate goals of the Admeri Dominion (the major causative factor behind the civil war, aside from ulfric being a megalomaniac) are very much "End of the world" in scope.
The aldmeri dominion intends to mythically re-write the world, by removing Talos, and all instances or references to the human races on tamriel, in much the same way the Marukhati Selectives reforged the personifications of the divines when they "danced on the tower."
Considering that "the world", Mundus, the mortal plane, was created by the entity responsible for the creation of the mortal races (Lorkhan, the trickster-- Aka, Shor, and other names) men being among his most prized creations, and playing an essential role just by existing in sustaining the mythotecture of the TES universe, the goals of the Aldmeri Dominion are very much to "End the world", so they can create a new one that they like better. (Much the same kind of plan that Dagoth Ur had in Morrowind.) Hints about the long-feud between humans and elves can be picked up casually by listening to the last remaining falmer guarding the old temple complex of auri-el.
Remember, the TES universe is not as.... rigidly grounded.... on mundane principles as ours. It is based on myth and magic. The aldmeri dominion is using mythic deletion to re-shape the world.
In that respect, the civil war takes on whole new tones.
(It's why I side with the Empire in the civil war, despite the egregious acts they engage in. A unified empire is required to stop the Aldmeri Dominion's sinister ambitions. Divided, tamriel will fall. Deep down, the empire LOATHES the aldmeri dominion, and only works with them by force. Somebody needs to return to HighRock and get the giant stompy robot-- er.. Numidium.. out of the bay, and back into action bootstomping genocidal elves.)
Post by: Rolan7 on December 18, 2016, 10:04:07 pm
And actually I sided with the Empire for the same general reason! Skyrim independence seems shortsighted and counterproductive. Also a bit uncomfortable, given the way most Nords... consider foreigners.
Post by: Jimmy on December 18, 2016, 10:26:59 pm
Better to let Skyrim become its own power under Ulfric, freely worshipping Talos. The Greybeards work out the truce, the Empire and the Stormcloaks agree to the terms, Ulfric becomes High King and the Nords happily get on with their lives. If the Thalmor don't like it, let them sacrifice their own soldiers to stop it. If the Empire wins, they have to let the Thalmor continue their efforts to root out Talos worship in Skyrim, and I guarantee you that will continue the Thalmor's goal of setting Imperials against Nords. Better that the Thalmor be cut off in Skyrim from having any influence whatsoever.
Post by: Putnam on December 18, 2016, 10:51:05 pm
I'm so annoyed by the Nords in this game, but in a good way. It's very clearly intentional, how far the Nords are from their traditional ways. The Nords are fighting a civil war over their tradition of worshiping a Breton who claimed he was an Imperial, all of their traditions are more Imperial than Nord, they worship the Imperial pantheon rather than the Nordic pantheon, they hate mages because of recent events not knowing that the nordic tradition is steeped deeply in respect and veneration of mages (which is brought up in game by Tsun)... and they war the Imperials for their right to uphold Imperial tradition. Beautiful.
Post by: Jimmy on December 18, 2016, 11:04:59 pm
The important thing is that the Nords feel like they got a win. Boom, they get their good feels, they get to hold a moot to elect their next High King which is totally not going to be rigged at all, and they continue to be racist bastards that persecute minorities like Reachmen. Ulfric might be a bastard, a scheming megalomaniac and a ruthless despot, but in my book all that does is prove he's the perfect candidate for the big chair. The world doesn't need kind, just rulers right now. It needs rulers who can motivate an entire population of people to rise up and give their lives fighting another war. Ulfric's got that in spades, and you just know that the Empire is itching to take the fight back to the Aldmeri Dominion. Ulfric can give the Empire an army of battle-hardened veteran Stormcloaks to do just that. You know he's got the brains to figure out the Thalmor are the real threat, and he's been perfectly clear on his opposition to their position in power over the Empire.
Post by: Putnam on December 18, 2016, 11:15:28 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 18, 2016, 11:17:27 pm
Honestly, I in this case, maybe having the dragons show up later in the main quest instead of out of the gate would've worked if you changed around the opening. While there's still rumors of dragons, there's no real 'oh shit' moments yet because the world eating dragon god has yet to show up.
There you go again assuming that is the main or primary quest because we are a Dragonborn.
When the REAL main quest is uniting the entire land under the same banner :P
Which is why I kind of say that the game has no main quest. One could argue it has two, but to determine that you have to determine how important they are to the plot, of which they aren't at all (One quest is more of an excuse plot for the dragon born stuff)
Post by: Jimmy on December 18, 2016, 11:35:21 pm
In respect to Ulfric's dossier, it quite clearly shows the Thalmor don't want one side to win in order to keep bleeding both sides dry fighting in a civil war. The Thalmor lose no matter which side wins, but I think Ulfric's a far better option for mankind than Elisif on the High King's throne. Love him or hate him, Ulfric has the support of the people, and he can rally them to war.
Post by: Chiefwaffles on December 18, 2016, 11:46:43 pm
Empire + Skyrim > Empire - Skyrim
Sure, you could say that independent Skyrim would actually fight against the Thalmor, but would that really be successful? They can't beat the Imperials, so why would they be able to do any kind of damage to the people who have the Imperials under their collective boots? A unified Empire would be stronger and more able to act and think for itself as well as to actually form some kind of eventual resistance.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 18, 2016, 11:52:02 pm
Only the Empire stands a chance against the Dominion, Ulfric is just a puppet and cannot ever be anything more. Not to mention that even when he does do things his way, it just turns into a merciless bloodbath (The Reach anyone?)
Edit: Forgot Orsinium in there, but from what I understand they were pretty much a non-factor in the war.
Post by: Jimmy on December 19, 2016, 12:21:21 am
Though technically there is a piece of Nirn in Fallout, at least if the mysterious plants growing on the Prydwen are any indication.
Post by: wierd on December 19, 2016, 12:35:05 am
It being a mythic construct INTENDED to change the way the mundus works (The dwemer intended to use it to remake the world the way THEY wanted, but failed miserably, destroying their entire species except one), its invocation is MUCH MUCH MORE than just a giant battle mecha stomping on everyone. It also literally re-writes history, and restructures reality when it is used. THAT is how Tiber Septim became the mantled persona of the missing Shor/Lorkhan/Seth/Shezzar/other divine slot.
The robot is presumed destroyed, but is really at the bottom of Illiac Bay, if I am reading the various outcomes of Daggerfall right. An army of imperial aligned wizards could theoretically work to recover and restore the construct, and BOOM-- It's ON like Donkey Kong all over again.
The Numidium is one of the 8 "Tower copies" created in mythic representation of the act of the mundus' creation, which is what gives them their myth-altering powers. It is also why the Aldmeri Dominion is INSISTENT on controlling the imperial city-- White-Gold is ANOTHER of these tower-copies, as is High Hrothgar, the Crystal Tower in their own dominion, The walking tree in Valenwood, etc. If you note, the aldmeri dominion is VERY aggressive in trying to gain control of these places. If they can control them all, they can ensure that what the Marukhati did never happens again, and they are poised to complete their plans to reforge the world as they see fit.
(For further reading, see the 36 lessons of vivec, the books on the alessian order, and commentary from Micheal Kirkbride; one of the lead authors of the lore of this universe.)
When Martin Septim died, and the mythic powers associated with the septim bloodline failed as a consequence, ONLY THEN were the altmer in the south able to begin their bullshit. Which they did, IMMEDIATELY.
But that's enough derail in the FO4 thread.
Post by: Putnam on December 19, 2016, 01:01:24 am
Nu-Mantia Intercept is the primary tower stuff. I don't think the 36 lessons had tower stuff yet. Nu-Mantia is from around Oblivion's release. The novels have a bit about the towers, the Book of the Dragonborn mentions them, and Elder Scrolls Online is based entirely around tower lore.
Post by: Krevsin on December 19, 2016, 03:03:11 am
Post by: Egan_BW on December 19, 2016, 03:07:27 am
Post by: BlackFlyme on December 19, 2016, 03:08:52 am
Post by: Jimmy on December 19, 2016, 03:22:07 am
Post by: Krevsin on December 19, 2016, 03:25:40 am
Nirnroot in Prydwen. Fallout Scrolls confirmed.Does than mean melee combat will be more viable in future titles?
Post by: umiman on December 19, 2016, 03:58:11 am
As opposed to how it's super powerful right now?Nirnroot in Prydwen. Fallout Scrolls confirmed.Does than mean melee combat will be more viable in future titles?
Post by: Egan_BW on December 19, 2016, 04:01:04 am
Then either Nirn lost a moon when it became Earth, or Earth gained a moon when it became Nirn.Why not both?
Post by: Krevsin on December 19, 2016, 04:13:13 am
It's very powerful but you get pelted by enemy fire all the way to them.As opposed to how it's super powerful right now?Nirnroot in Prydwen. Fallout Scrolls confirmed.Does than mean melee combat will be more viable in future titles?
Which means it's not viable in Survival, which is the only difficulty level with any sort of combat challenge to it.
Post by: woosholay on December 19, 2016, 04:43:23 am
Post by: Krevsin on December 19, 2016, 05:02:45 am
But there's good stuff up on the Nexus. Question is, what are you looking for?
Post by: miauw62 on December 19, 2016, 06:31:22 am
White Gold's stone was destroyed at the end of the 3rd Era when Martin used it to become a dragon. Crystal-Like-Law was likely destroyed surreptitiously by the Thalmor. Snow Throat is "sundered, kingless, bleeding", and may already be lost. Adamantine Tower seems to be the only one left standing, its stone being Convention, which has been reaffirmed by Convention 2.0, the Enantiomorph that made Talos-the-Divine. The results of a loss of Talos are unknown on Adamantine; I don't think it'd do shit, but whatever.I thought that it was ambiguous whether Snow Throat was still standing? What was its stone, anyway?
Nu-Mantia Intercept is the primary tower stuff. I don't think the 36 lessons had tower stuff yet. Nu-Mantia is from around Oblivion's release. The novels have a bit about the towers, the Book of the Dragonborn mentions them, and Elder Scrolls Online is based entirely around tower lore.
Post by: umiman on December 19, 2016, 06:54:54 am
I have 81 active mods. I think every single one of them is there to fix a problem with the game. Can't think of any major overhauls or stuff that add more than just cosmetics.
Post by: Krevsin on December 19, 2016, 09:25:33 am
I am also partial to the Gunners Overhaul (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/15054/?)since it makes the gunners into an actually sensible faction of mercenaries instead of raiders+ complete with radiant quests and all. Too bad the voiceacting isn't in yet, but it's a promising start.
I also have a bunch of minor mods that change things a bit, like Older Is Better (makes T-51 the second best power armor instead of T-60), Brotherhood Power Armour Overhaul (diversifies the armor the brotherhood has) along with some new weapons and settlement building stuff.
Post by: Sergius on December 21, 2016, 02:13:54 pm
Anyway, she was sitting right next to the river.
Post by: SOLDIER First on December 21, 2016, 05:22:14 pm
Post by: nenjin on December 21, 2016, 05:34:35 pm
Post by: Iceblaster on December 21, 2016, 06:05:04 pm
Post by: Sergius on December 21, 2016, 11:23:17 pm
Do you want to drink from an irradiated river?
She said she didn't mind any kind of water. I've specified as much. And she will accept dirty water.
Post by: Baffler on December 23, 2016, 07:29:55 pm
Post by: Iceblaster on December 23, 2016, 08:06:17 pm
Post by: Sergius on December 26, 2016, 12:30:34 pm
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 26, 2016, 12:40:32 pm
Post by: Sergius on December 26, 2016, 07:24:11 pm
So you can get away with making mods for all the lighter armor and reattaching them instead of properly making them at the intended perk requisite.
Post by: NullForceOmega on December 26, 2016, 08:45:16 pm
The point is that your complaint is the logical outcome of their implementation of the mechanic .
Edit:I know you didn't ask, but I tried to find a mod that rectifies this, but my google-fu is not so good and I did not manage to locate one, sorry.
Post by: Sergius on December 27, 2016, 01:17:38 am
I don't need a mod to fix that, I can just ignore and keep playing. I was merely pointing out that it happened and whether anyone else found it odd.
Post by: Krevsin on December 27, 2016, 02:31:56 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 27, 2016, 07:04:03 am
I actually think it makes sense, given how you're not in fact making a more advanced mod from scratch but merely taking an existing mod and applying it to another weapon/armor of the same type.I think the point is that you should probably be required to have the upgraded perk to attach the mod, just like you would to build it. Mods on the heavier armors are gated by higher perk requirements, which is circumvented by making the mod for a light armor and moving it.
Post by: Jimmy on December 27, 2016, 09:10:55 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 27, 2016, 10:06:43 am
Post by: Iceblaster on December 27, 2016, 12:09:24 pm
As a console peasant, where will I find a mod to unlock ballistic weave from the get-go? Looked for it for a bit, but couldn't find it. A name or a link would be nice.
Post by: Sergius on December 28, 2016, 03:59:54 pm
What makes no sense is that it's more costly to make the Heavy mod than the Sturdy or Light version of the mod.
Unless I'm misremembering (which would be weird because I'm pretty sure I did this to ugprade a Medium armor of some kind), it works like this.
(the actual perk numbers are from the top of my head):
Let's say I find a vanilla Heavy Combat Armor chest piece. I want to add the "polymer" upgrade to it. Let's say this requires Rank 4 of Armorer, because it's the Heavy version. The Light version requires Rank 2. I can do this two ways:
- Spend 4 perk points on Armorer, go to an armor bench, select my armor piece and build the Polymer upgrade for it.
- Spend 2 perks on armorer. Get a Light chest piece (chances are I have a gigallion of these if I already found the Heavy one). Build the Polymer upgrade for it. Remove the upgrade. Select my heavy armor piece. Attach the upgrade.
Why not do #2 every time and save on the perk? Sure, eventually I might like to have Rank 4 of armorer for some specific mod or whatever, but not for this. So, why not just leave the Polymer upgrade requirement at Rank 2 for all levels of combat armor, if this was the intended behavior?
EDIT: Again, calling this a "complaint" is way overstating it. To me, at worst it's a nitpick. At best, it's a deliciously exploitable cheat that I don't intend to stop using.
Post by: Iceblaster on December 28, 2016, 04:01:42 pm
Post by: Sergius on December 28, 2016, 04:02:52 pm
Because you can do more stuff with higher Armorer. Sure, you could just do that, but if you're doing a bunch of armor crafting and want armorer, you'll probably be having as high a level in Armorer as you can regardless.
Yep, that's what I meant when I said "Sure, eventually I might like to have Rank 4 of armorer for some specific mod or whatever".
Post by: Iceblaster on December 28, 2016, 04:10:51 pm
Post by: Sergius on December 28, 2016, 04:12:02 pm
Oh. I didn't see that. Regardless, my point stands. I don't use exploits because I find them cheap, but honestly this seems more like an oversight more than an exploit.
Oversight is the dev putting it there. Exploit is the player using it to his benefit.
Post by: BFEL on January 08, 2017, 08:57:51 am
Is this accurate?
And if not, is there a mod that makes it so that I don't have to babysit settlements? Cuz without fast travel its basically impossible to defend shit.
Post by: Iceblaster on January 08, 2017, 01:27:38 pm
Post by: BFEL on January 08, 2017, 04:49:12 pm
Also actually witnessed this when I got back to Sanctuary from getting far enough in the main quest for the Brotherhood to show up and thus give me something resembling fast travel with their explodiburbs. Nothing was destroyed. I was so happy. And then I got eaten by bears.
Post by: Hanslanda on February 01, 2017, 09:46:23 am
Post by: Krevsin on February 01, 2017, 10:01:40 am
Post by: Hanslanda on February 01, 2017, 10:21:01 am
Post by: NullForceOmega on February 06, 2017, 03:02:40 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 06, 2017, 04:29:44 pm
'Thesda just released a "HD" texture DLC for F4, it is around 57-58 GIGABYTES, and is probably horrible.Is it horrible because of the size or it looks horrible?
Post by: SOLDIER First on February 06, 2017, 04:39:16 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 06, 2017, 05:15:03 pm
Post by: Putnam on February 06, 2017, 08:00:23 pm
It's probably not going to look good, but that fucking filesize. That's almost three triple-A games' worth, for god's sake.
Most triple-A games are that large specifically due to textures, so this is completely expected.
Post by: NullForceOmega on February 06, 2017, 09:10:42 pm
Is it horrible because of the size or it looks horrible?
I'll let you know once the twelve hour download finishes, and I can stomach actually playing the game.
Post by: Ultimuh on February 06, 2017, 10:17:54 pm
Post by: Putnam on February 07, 2017, 12:37:50 am
Post by: Jimmy on February 07, 2017, 07:22:11 am
If I wanted shiny textures, I'd go download mods instead. Vanilla is still vanilla, even with more vanilla.
Post by: NullForceOmega on February 07, 2017, 07:46:02 am
First, specs: Intel I5 @2.8 Ghz, Nvidia Geforce 980 ti, 16 GB RAM, heavily modded.
1 ) It loaded the majority of textures much faster than before, and of the textures I saw, many were actually better, for the majority of my playtime it also ran cooler than vanilla.
2 ) There was nonetheless more frequent frame-rate dropping, some stuttering, but no slideshow.
3 ) Either the DLC or one of the recent updates substantially improved collision meshes, I was able, while wearing PA, to jump through a broken segment of wall that I KNOW I was not able to before.
4 ) Many creature textures were updated, and look substantially better than before, there also seem to have been improvements to many effects, such as wet textures, rainfall, and fog.
5 ) It actually had a smaller impact on my HD than expected, I believe some of the DLC includes those revised meshes, which may have over-written the original meshes.
Conclusion: while still stupidly huge, I declare it not Horse Armor.
Post by: Iceblaster on February 07, 2017, 08:27:54 am
Post by: Retropunch on February 07, 2017, 11:51:58 am
My question is, are there any mods/mod collections to make it a bit more gritty/like STALKER? It's less about just bumping the difficulty, just making it into more of a sort of proper apocalyptic wasteland scavenge rather then Looty McCrazy Goblins.
Post by: Man of Paper on February 07, 2017, 02:55:02 pm
Post by: Retropunch on February 07, 2017, 03:46:35 pm
Well once the server's back up I'll pop you a list of the mods I'm using in my gritty survivalist run.
Awesome, thanks!! I'm not in need of super grimdark, just something that's a bit grittier than the standard FO4, which I found pretty bright and breezy somehow.
Post by: JimboM12 on February 07, 2017, 03:53:32 pm
Just because I actually need to build farms to eat now doesn't mean I want every raider becoming bullet sponges.
Post by: Retropunch on February 07, 2017, 04:03:09 pm
All i want is hardcore NV style needs with normal combat difficulty.
Just because I actually need to build farms to eat now doesn't mean I want every raider becoming bullet sponges.
Exactly!! I never find the combat difficulty too far off with Fallout 4 (bar a few exceptions) - it's not a chore, but if you get careless you've got a good chance of being deaded.
But it doesn't feel very much like a post apocalyptic wasteland - it feels more like an extremely well preserved crumbling city which happens to be absolutely chock full of an incredible amount of stuff.
Post by: Man of Paper on February 07, 2017, 04:54:08 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now after your last post I will say that War Never Changes does in fact change war drastically. All guns are varying amounts of lethal to everything at all levels. And that goes both ways. But in general these mods have made FO4 exciting, fun, punishing, and !!FUN!! for me again.
Post by: Retropunch on February 07, 2017, 05:20:56 pm
-amazingly helpful list-
AWESOME! Thank you so much for that, it's just the kind of list I was looking for. I think I'll go for the War Never Changes mod - my earlier comment was more of a 'I don't mind it, but it could be better' rather than I thought the balance was great as is.
Post by: Putnam on February 08, 2017, 03:22:25 am
Is this only available on PC or is it available on the Xbone as well? I mean. probably won't pick it up all things considered because i am just fine with what i have and it's a bit big, but still. Can't hurt to know.
I'm gonna say no, since I doubt my computer can handle it and it has twice as much total RAM as the Xbone.
Post by: Gabeux on March 22, 2017, 12:06:59 am
I've been playing with over 75 mods I think, but the biggest one is the Horizon mod (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/17374/?). It's a total overhaul that aims to make things harder. I'm finding it REALLY fun, playing on the "Easy Survival" difficulty - which just means everyone does 100% damage instead of Player doing 100% and Enemies doing 150%. This mod is WAY harder than Vanilla Survival! I almost died to the first Bloatflies in Sanctuary, they left me with maybe 10 hp! And having everyone be a bullet sponge while I am a Bloatfly meal didn't feel fun.
(I'll probably boost the difficulty back to Horizon's "Normal Survival" soon, though, since I think other mods that I had in the beginning were making the game too hard to the point of ridiculousness)
As a total overhaul, it becomes a different game.. It adds, changes and removes all sort of features - from new settlement items to weapon mods, combat, loot, perks, levels, experience, balance, progression..EVERYTHING is changed. Check the size of the mod page to get an idea of what I'm talking about.
The thing is, though.. I installed Horizon together with Fallout Loot Overhaul (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/1486/?), and that's a crazy dumb thing to do. It became MISERY Mod on Fallout, because what Horizon doesn't make much harder, Fallout Loot Overhaul does. So its insanely bad, it feels everyone stole all the loot from everywhere, so I'm not sure even if Misery players would like it. Also, the mods are clearly not meant to run together as they change a lot of the same stuff.
Uninstalling Loot Overhaul made it very fun. I can find one or two bullets every 30 minutes now!! Ha.
It's really good. If anyone is looking for an excuse to Fall back into Fallout, I suggest that mod. And most definitely grab a 'Save Game on Survival' mod, because crashes are insanely infuriating when each and every encounter are tactical as hell. I was forced to set 3 frag mines and throw a molotov at THREE RAIDERS (!) because I had no ammo and had low health. Only one mine exploded, though.
In any case, I'm finding this mod has a good balance between combat difficulty vs. survival difficulty vs. progression/crafting difficulty. It makes everything non-trivial, and good stuff (like becoming self-sufficient) requires perks or exploration, therefore everything is REALLY rewarding. I stumbled upon a known bandit which was clearly too strong for me, but since the combat overhaul makes headshots count, I managed to explode her head. She dropped a great rifle completely over my level which I had no ammo for, but it had a bayonet and the melee attack of it was stronger than everything else I had. I even got to one-shot a skull-marked bandit with the only .308 bullet I had.
THIS is the kind of experience I wanted to have in Fallout 3 but was too young to realize, and it was the experience I wanted on Fallout 4..but I kinda enjoyed and accepted my richness as I was really hoarding the whole goddamn map inside Sanctuary's inventory..
The only thing that is a little disappointing with Horizon, but understanble, is that weapon mods might throw off the balance, so you have to try out for yourself if it's worth it.
Mind that I'm only a few hours in, though, so I'm yet to see if it's a solid experience at all times.
And..
True Storms: Wasteland Edition - This alone changed the atmosphere enough to make the game exciting again. You should probably be using this anyway if you can. Adds new and improved weather, including some of the densest fogs I've ever shot a laser through.This mod is amazing. It was midnight, and an insane fog came up. I was hungry, thirsty, sleepy and far away from home. And then I bumped into a lone raider in the middle of the fog - IT WAS INSANE! Later on, on another crazy fog, I bumped into three roaming feral ghouls, and it scared the hell out of me. Do get this mod.
Survival Options - A personal must for Survival even though all I do is set it to autosave every 10 minutes. That way I can't really savescum, and if some Bethesda-style BS or mod-related crap happens, I lose a max of 10 minutes progress.
Thanks for mentioning this! I got two survival-save mods but I don't like the way they work, and they can easily be abused. A 10 minute auto-save is all I wanted. :P
I'm a bit sad, though, that I don't have money for all the DLCs. Some fun/good/interesting mods require one or all of them, and I'm more interested in the mods than the DLCs themselves.
Mind that Horizon itself is balanced around having all DLCs, so if you have them you'll be happier than me. The mod is modular so you can add the modded-DLC content as you buy them.
Post by: Iceblaster on March 22, 2017, 08:46:28 am
I mean, I won't be able to play it, but still. It sounds cool :P
Post by: Scripten on March 22, 2017, 10:22:37 am
So who here is excited for Fallout 4 VR? I am, tbh. I wouldn't even mind if Bethesda released it as a paid DLC. I mean, the amount of work to get it working and all set up so it doesn't just crash and burn immediately surely would deserve some money.
I mean, I won't be able to play it, but still. It sounds cool :P
I've specifically been preparing to play FO4 again when VR launches, so yes, one might say that I'm excited. :P
Post by: Ultimuh on March 22, 2017, 10:28:54 am
But to be honest, I probably won't jump on that bandwagon.
I don't have the hardware for it, and I don't really care at this point.
Post by: Iceblaster on March 22, 2017, 01:03:56 pm
tbh, the VR excited part of me is thinking that if this succeeds, it could lead to other games adding in VR support.
Post by: Ultimuh on March 22, 2017, 01:06:47 pm
if this succeeds, it could lead to other games adding in VR support.
True, but for me VR is only a fad, a gimmick of sorts. At least until it really takes off and becomes the norm.
edit: I would not want to spend extra money on extra things just to be able to play a game though.
I am more exited for whenever a decent console that's made exclusively for VR, releases.
Post by: Iceblaster on March 22, 2017, 01:19:08 pm
i'm just really optimistic about this. vr's just so cool and now we actually have the technology to do it :v
Post by: NullForceOmega on March 22, 2017, 05:31:57 pm
Post by: Retropunch on March 22, 2017, 05:50:27 pm
For VR to take off it needs to be more than an incredibly expensive, motion-sickness inducing rich peoples hobby toy. The tech has been around for nearly three decades and it is still crap, it just looks better than it did.
Have you used it? As in, properly used a Vive (and for more than a few minutes)?
I was very sceptical about it, but it's honestly amazing. I've never got motion-sickness from them (including my Gear VR, which has impressed a lot of people) and it's way, way better than it was. I've felt completely immersed in a way I never have with anything else.
I also don't get what you mean by 'rich peoples hobby toy' - I mean, yeah, it's expensive, but people buy big TVs/Gaming PCs which are more expensive. Hell, it's not that much more expensive than a PS4 pro. They're all 'hobby toys' -the computer I'm writing this off is a 'hobby toy'. So I mean, yeah - no one's using it for work, it's a hobby/leisure device.
Post by: NullForceOmega on March 22, 2017, 06:12:25 pm
As for it being a rich persons hobby toy, I have the money to maintain this computer, and NOTHING ELSE for gaming, so another several hundred dollars just for a library of shitty on-rails shooter, miserable walking simulator, or gods fuck everyone another piss-poor 'horror' games I'm not even going to play certainly makes it seem like a completely useless extravagance to me.
There is no sale here. I cannot be convinced. VR will never be acceptable to me until someone actually puts together a FULL immersion system, as in all five senses, and since the probability of that happening within my lifetime is practically nil, I'm just going to say no to every incarnation up to that point.
Post by: Retropunch on March 22, 2017, 06:59:21 pm
I have glaucoma, one of those conditions that responds poorly to things like screens being mere inches from my eyes, so no I haven't tried it, and I'm not going to.
Wut. So how can you say it's crap if you've never tried it!? I mean, these are problems specific to you - they don't affect the overwhelming majority of people. I'm not trying to persuade you to buy it or anything, just that you can't really say something is rubbish and useless just because you can't play it - especially if you've never actually tried it. As I say, I was sceptical at first, but after trying it I was pretty much immediately convinced.
Quote
As for it being a rich persons hobby toy, I have the money to maintain this computer, and NOTHING ELSE for gaming, so another several hundred dollars just for a library of shitty on-rails shooter, miserable walking simulator, or gods fuck everyone another piss-poor 'horror' games I'm not even going to play certainly makes it seem like a completely useless extravagance to me.
Can you not see the irony that you're commenting on the thread for the massive AAA title which is now coming to VR?
Lastly, what's a useless extravagance to you is not to the next. I know a lot of friends think I'm absolutely crazy to spend the amount I do on my PC - but it's my extravagance, much like cars are for some people and so on.
Post by: Iceblaster on March 22, 2017, 07:02:45 pm
If VR ends up bombing and never recovering, like video games as a whole, then there won't be anymore VR stuff. It'll be done. No one will feel it's worth investing into something that makes no profit. Sure, the whole revival of the industry for video games kinda happened as a result of an establish company taking a risk, but still. The point stands.
So yeah. A little insight into why I'm so optimistic about this stuff. It's expensive and most of the games aren't that good, but who's the say VR should be dismissed as a fad or a cheap gimmick? Bethesda obviously sees a market and/or they have a wish to make one of their games VR compatible.
Post by: Retropunch on March 22, 2017, 07:11:41 pm
The hardware is out there and it works great - the games are coming out, and all the main game companies and game engine designers are going full steam ahead with it. Even if Oculus/vive folded, there is already enough momentum/games for other companies to take up the mantle (which they're already doing)
However, my prediction would be that we'll soon we'll reach a point where the vast majority of smart phones can deal with VR, and after that Facebook will do a massive push - I'd imagine a low cost headset from them for the mass consumer which works across most platforms. They'll push it so eye-wateringly hard that it'll become a success whether it's any good or not.
Post by: NullForceOmega on March 22, 2017, 07:33:28 pm
Wut. So how can you say it's crap if you've never tried it!? I mean, these are problems specific to you - they don't affect the overwhelming majority of people. I'm not trying to persuade you to buy it or anything, just that you can't really say something is rubbish and useless just because you can't play it - especially if you've never actually tried it. As I say, I was sceptical at first, but after trying it I was pretty much immediately convinced.
Can you not see the irony that you're commenting on the thread for the massive AAA title which is now coming to VR?
Lastly, what's a useless extravagance to you is not to the next. I know a lot of friends think I'm absolutely crazy to spend the amount I do on my PC - but it's my extravagance, much like cars are for some people and so on.
I'm going to answer these points and then I'm going to back out before this becomes an argument, I will read any response you post but will not respond to this particular discussion again.
1 ) Seriously? You want to try that tired old "you've never tried it so how would you know?" argument that has been straight up bullshit since the moment it was first used? Here: Tiny, but still very visible pixels mere inches (or cm/mm for you damned metric people) from my eyes pulsing at a barely perceptible but still very noticeable and adverse for ALL human eyes rate, combined with the disconnected feeling from any attempt at motion and the not insubstantial weight of the HMD make for what I would describe as a truly shitty unpleasant experience, something like a rollercoaster without the inertia, which sounds like fucking agony. As for the 'problem exclusive to me', millions of people have glaucoma, so it isn't 'exclusive' at all, it is a small but measurable percentage of possible sales.
2 ) Can you not see the irony of defending a move to VR by a company that is well know for glitchy products and inadequate QA.
3) Your extravagance is an extravagance. It is purely luxury, and not everyone is able or willing to expend large amounts of capital on said luxuries, the abysmal sales of VR thus far have made that abundantly clear.
That's it. All I have to say on the subject. I don't like it, you do, discussion over.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on March 22, 2017, 07:53:51 pm
Post by: Retropunch on March 22, 2017, 07:55:25 pm
I'm going to answer these points and then I'm going to back out before this becomes an argument, I will read any response you post but will not respond to this particular discussion again.
1 ) Seriously? You want to try that tired old "you've never tried it so how would you know?" argument that has been straight up bullshit since the moment it was first used? Here: Tiny, but still very visible pixels mere inches (or cm/mm for you damned metric people) from my eyes pulsing at a barely perceptible but still very noticeable and adverse for ALL human eyes, combined with the disconnected feeling from any attempt at motion and the not insubstantial weight of the HMD make for what I would describe as a truly shitty unpleasant experience, something like a rollercoaster without the inertia, which sounds like fucking agony. As for the 'problem exclusive to me', millions of people have glaucoma, so it isn't 'exclusive' at all, it is a small but measurable percentage of possible sales.
2 ) Can you not see the irony of defending a move to VR by a company that is well know for glitchy products and inadequate QA.
3) Your extravagance is an extravagance. It is purely luxury, and not everyone is able or willing to expend large amounts of capital on said luxuries, the abysmal sales of VR thus far have made that abundantly clear.
That's it. All I have to say on the subject. I don't like it, you do, discussion over.
Not discussion over, no. It's a civilised debate, you don't have to respond, but you also can't declare 'discussion over!'.
1) The problem is, no one I know that's actually tried it has thought it was 'a truly shitty unpleasant experience' - they've all loved it, as obviously have a large amount of people otherwise it wouldn't sell at all. Quite a number of my friends have one device or another, and all my friends and family that have tried mine have loved it.
I'm sure some people don't like it, but you're going on 'how it sounds like it will be' rather than actually experiencing it. Lots of things sound rubbish in theory, but in practice work out well. So really, you can't come in and say how awful something is just on the sound of it, when people who have used it fully are saying it's great fun - surely you can see that they may know more than you in this case?
Also, Millions have glaucoma, but millions are in a wheelchair, it doesn't stop running machines from selling. It's a very, very small percentage and I'm sure it's something that they factored in.
2) Your point was that all there is are walking sims and minor gimmick games. Fallout 4 is distinctly not that, regardless of their QA process/how glitchy their games are. Your retort here seems like a bit of a non sequitur.
3) From what I understand, the sales have been sluggish but adequate - far from abysmal. Sure, it's not a PS2/xbox360 style launch, but it was never going to be. It was always marketed at enthusiasts to begin with, but things like the GearVR and similar are selling pretty mainstream.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on March 22, 2017, 08:08:10 pm
Until you can put me into the game like the Matrix, VR is just funny way to look at your tv.
Post by: Egan_BW on March 22, 2017, 08:20:38 pm
Sound, visual, and kinesthetic sense can be enough to fool yourself to some extent, you don't need touch or smell or pain to kinda understand the space around you.
Post by: umiman on March 22, 2017, 09:37:42 pm
I have not been impressed though. It always just feels like a 360 degree computer monitor. Hell, the phone VR systems are just terrible in general with abysmal resolutions.
I gave up using the Playstation VR thing at a friend's place for Resident Evil because the discrepancy between the controls, on screen action, and what I was actually doing was too jarring for me. Not to mention the graphics were noticeably worse in VR than normal. To give an idea, to see "yourself" move "your" hands around while your real hands are just on a controller feels really disjointed. Every time that happened (basically nonstop) I kept losing my immersion. Also it had to keep fading to black whenever "your" head moved too drastically from what your real head would be doing. Basically, every single time you crouched, climbed a ladder, sat down, got thrown back, etc. etc. Again, very weird and disjointing.
I'll also mention VR porn, which I've also tried. Extensively. I do not really recommend it for the same reasons. I've read about people going "holy shit VR porn will make the human race go extinct" or whatever but it really isn't particularly great. Again, you have the same problems with what's going on on the screen being completely different from what you yourself are... ahem... doing. They can't move the location of the camera for fear of motion sickness and it just being really strange if they did so everything happens from one single camera angle. It feels alien and weird, like you've been transplanted into the eyes of someone you can't control. You want to move but you can't. All you can do is move your head like some sort of coma patient being molested. That being said, I'm sure if you're someone who does not have a lot of experience with tits hanging in front of your face, you'd probably love this as it feels quite real in that aspect.
I doubt I'd be running out to buy a Vive to play frigging Fallout 4 in VR.
---
As on now, the only time I've preferred using VR over a regular screen was during racing sims. Then it's frigging amazing. I was completely and totally immersed to the point where I felt like I was racing a real car, checking my mirrors, looking at my car dash and so on. If you're a hardcore racing gamer, I highly recommend VR. I would imagine stuff like Elite Dangerous would be amazing with it too, but I haven't had a chance to try that either.
FPS... not so much. Maybe when they implement some kind of full body harness / controller. Because right now you can't even bloody crouch without it fading to black.
Post by: Jimmy on March 23, 2017, 12:28:55 am
Also VR is a gimmick and shit!!! WOOOO!!! Anarchy!!!Yep, that and the Twitters, Facebooks, and them phones with no buttons on 'em.
Post by: Glloyd on March 23, 2017, 01:33:58 am
However, if you haven't tried it, don't hate on it. Yeah, the games are basically just tech demos right now. But it doesn't take long in the Vive to see the potential there, and if VR starts seeing some high quality AAA titles like Fallout, (whether or not Fallout 4 is a high quality Fallout game is another discussion) there's a chance that it can meet some of that potential. But even as is, it's fun as fuck to try out, and if you get the chance, do it. Moreover, even though the games are mostly gimmicks right now, the system itself is less gimmicky than it seems. Once you get in there with the headset on and your headphones in, and you're stumbling around a big room trying to figure out what you're doing, you'll have a blast, and you'll get surprisingly immersed in the experience. My one friend played around in that google painting thing for two hours straight, and when she stopped, she thought she had only been doing it for 20 minutes tops. So there's fun to be had even now.
Basically, don't knock it till you try it, there's potential there. But yeah, they're expensive as fuck and as it stands, not something I would spend money on myself. However, that doesn't mean that the system itself isn't fun.
EDIT: @umiman - I agree with you on the racing sims. Those are amazing. Also got to try out Elite for a bit, it was awesome. I feel like VR is perfect for space sims and racing sims.
Post by: umiman on March 23, 2017, 02:53:55 am
EDIT: @umiman - I agree with you on the racing sims. Those are amazing. Also got to try out Elite for a bit, it was awesome. I feel like VR is perfect for space sims and racing sims.I think it'd be great for anything with a cockpit.
Kinda want to try Mechwarrior with it.
Holy shit my dick would explode.
Post by: Gabeux on March 23, 2017, 03:11:31 am
Do anyone play with the Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch mod? Does it makes things better or worse? Even if you run a heavily modded game?
I'm thinking on trying it out as adding around 20 other mods made the game really unstable. I'm thinking it might be the ones that adds new buildings/locations. It got to the point of it breaking the main quest and making me roll back 1-2h of gameplay.
My own fault for not making backup saves along with the autosaves and I-think-this-shit-is-gonna crash saves. All saves I shouldn't be doing in the first place, as this was supposed to be a (fun) hard survival run.
Also, the location mods have way too much clutter even with lower-clutter options enabled, its insane and makes no sense. It also gave me a crazy upgraded 10mm (which I have exactly 1 bullet for) while I was still level two, completely unbalanced..so I guess the rollback was hardcore anti-cheating.
Post by: Putnam on March 23, 2017, 03:22:54 am
Post by: MarcAFK on March 23, 2017, 07:14:32 am
Sim settlements, and salvage beacons.
Mod list thus far is :
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Retropunch on March 23, 2017, 07:17:06 am
Even my GearVR has impressed everyone who's used it - sure, it's got the screen door effect and low res, but sitting on stage during a concert or watching dinosaurs close up is awesome even at low res. Sure, I wouldn't want to play a three hour marathon session with it, but I've probably used it about 30-40 times for 20 minute sessions which I feel is pretty good even now.
I honestly was a sceptic to start off with - I remember lining up to play a VR thing at a fair for an hour about 15 years ago and it was woefully disappointing even for a younger, more easily impressed mind. Cynical me was bowled over immediately. Whether it'll become mainstream is another question altogether, but there's no denying it's awesome even as it is.
Post by: Gabeux on March 23, 2017, 08:35:26 am
Post by: Glloyd on March 28, 2017, 10:03:49 pm
Indeed, game got a lot more stable with the Unofficial Patch. However, I've tried everything..and something really broke my main questline. I can't get "When Freedom Calls" (the quest you get once you find Preston) to start, so I guess I'll have to start over.
If you're using PC, just use console commands to start the quest.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 29, 2017, 05:40:20 pm
Flying through an ice ring in my Asp and being able to look in any direction...
Needless to say I am looking forward to Fallout VR. One of my favorite games so far has been Racket: Nx which is just a sort of racket ball game where you're in the middle of a huge 360 degree racketball room and hit balls at targets for various objectives. Its surprisingly fun and they got the physics just so right
Post by: Retropunch on March 29, 2017, 05:57:53 pm
the first time I saw a capital ship come out of FTL on a monitor I said "Yeah that's neat" and shrugged. In VR it honestly took my breath away, and I flew around the damn thing for half an hour in a fighter just looking at it.
I've been playing PC games a long time, and when there's a big jump in graphics (first proper 3D game, first game with proper physics etc.) you go 'woah, that's awesome' because it's such a step up from previously. However I've NEVER felt a step up like I did with VR, even the jump between 2D and 3D gaming.
That's what sold it to me, and everyone I know who's used it has had the same reaction. I kinda think that Fallout 4 might be another (smaller) leap, as it'll be the first sort of 'big' game to go to VR. I don't know how they'll manage it, but I'm hopeful.
Post by: Draignean on March 29, 2017, 09:20:18 pm
the first time I saw a capital ship come out of FTL on a monitor I said "Yeah that's neat" and shrugged. In VR it honestly took my breath away, and I flew around the damn thing for half an hour in a fighter just looking at it.
I've been playing PC games a long time, and when there's a big jump in graphics (first proper 3D game, first game with proper physics etc.) you go 'woah, that's awesome' because it's such a step up from previously. However I've NEVER felt a step up like I did with VR, even the jump between 2D and 3D gaming.
That's what sold it to me, and everyone I know who's used it has had the same reaction. I kinda think that Fallout 4 might be another (smaller) leap, as it'll be the first sort of 'big' game to go to VR. I don't know how they'll manage it, but I'm hopeful.
I sincerely hope they use (or at least have the option for) the 'jogging in place' control scheme for movement. The average weight of gamers will drop by about thirty pounds.
Hell, play survival mode and your character's thirst gauge will probably be a fairly realistic depiction of when you personally need to get a drink.
Post by: Egan_BW on March 29, 2017, 09:25:13 pm
Post by: Neonivek on March 29, 2017, 09:34:26 pm
I think that games are going to stick with teleportation for movement, as it's the only way so far that doesn't make you feel very sick.
There are ways around it... and apparently you can get used to it.
Post by: Draignean on March 29, 2017, 09:50:32 pm
I think that games are going to stick with teleportation for movement, as it's the only way so far that doesn't make you feel very sick.
I don't think so. My personal theory is that they're going to add some sort of a face to your character they you can look out of. One, rather hideously clunky, method of preventing the motion sickness is to have a cage around the player's head. It looks awful, feels awful, and is awful. However, it does imply that a similar, more immersive method, might work. If, for instance, the player wwas apply to see their character's nose (in much the same way you can see your own nose, I.E, you can but never notice), that might help. Also, being able to see the interior of your headgear might help- similar to what project NEVADA did in New Vegas.
Also, some people just aren't effected. I'm happily among them, and I think it's one of those things that will improve over time.
Post by: Neonivek on March 29, 2017, 10:54:33 pm
Post by: MarcAFK on March 30, 2017, 06:14:07 am
Post by: Iceblaster on March 30, 2017, 07:54:30 am
Post by: Retropunch on March 30, 2017, 02:30:55 pm
That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't just lock you in power armour or something, although I remember in one tweet/statement they said they'd got something completely innovative for it. It may well be something they can get a handle on purely through software, but I imagine there will always be an element of motion sickness.
I don't suffer from motion sickness badly, although it did take me an hour or two not to feel a bit queasy on quick turns/jumps. Jogging on the spot stuff is pretty much how I imagine it'll really start kicking off into making VR mega-billions though, I imagine it'd become life changing for many.
Post by: Neonivek on March 30, 2017, 02:33:13 pm
Post by: Draignean on March 30, 2017, 02:37:29 pm
Sounds silly but the VR teleportation looks really bad to me. Which is why I hope we instead find ways around motion sickness that don't involve it.
I rather agree. The teleport sort of breaks the immersion for me.
Hell, I might have to dust off my mod hat and MAKE the control scheme jog-in-place if it isn't already.
I'm curious how they're going to do melee combat, because if they suddenly decide to take a quantum leap forward (For Bethesda) and let me swing an officer's sword with my arm instead of my thumb... I'm going to need to play FO4 in my gym clothes.
Post by: Retropunch on March 30, 2017, 02:41:29 pm
Sounds silly but the VR teleportation looks really bad to me. Which is why I hope we instead find ways around motion sickness that don't involve it.
Yeah to me too. I doubt they'll stick with that, as it got sort of panned by alpha version reviewers and they came back with statements saying they had something amazing in place.
They never categorically denied it, but I can't really imagine them trying to flog just teleportation VR, because I think everyone knows it's a bit stupid, and I can't imagine trying to play a game like that for any length of time.
I could be surprised, but I'm hoping not. Draignean will be drowned in PMs if that's the case though.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 30, 2017, 02:41:59 pm
Post by: Gabeux on March 31, 2017, 01:36:47 am
Indeed, game got a lot more stable with the Unofficial Patch. However, I've tried everything..and something really broke my main questline. I can't get "When Freedom Calls" (the quest you get once you find Preston) to start, so I guess I'll have to start over.
If you're using PC, just use console commands to start the quest.
That's the first thing I tried, as to finish Skyrim and prevent saves from being lost I had to pretty much hack the Matrix from inside its console. :P There was really no solution.
It was one of two things:
- I left the Vault with a LOT of mods active, and that doesn't seem to be a good idea. Unless a mod explicity states it requires to be active since you hit "New Game" (Horizon is the only one I found that requires this), it's simply safer to leave all of them off until you leave the Vault. [I had no issues with Horizon + Unofficial patch active].
- The "Everyone's Best Friend" mod lets you take Dogmeat with you always, along with a companion. Even on Skyrim this sort of mod always broke all sort of things (including other mods), so it's one of the most likely suspects, as it let me bring Codsworth AND Dogmeat to the first mission in Concord, and I don't think you should be able to do that (Codsworth will say he'll take care of Sanctuary until you come back or something like this, on the beginning).
In any case, I haven't had time to play a lot so I'm not far, but it has been damn great.
What's hilarious is that I never played as a sniper as my last GPU could barely handle mid-range combat draw distances. Now, being able to snipe people from VERY far away with a simple pipe rifle and a scope, it really made Horizons' hard start much easier.
I'm still playing on 100%/100% dmg difficulty, as it feels like Vanilla 150%/100% for some reason.
And I had two amazing experiences now that it's on Survival:
- First Deathclaw, Horizon lowers the amount of Minigun ammo you get there. I didn't realize, and I had a half-hp Deathclaw furiously moving in my direction. I panicked and somehow managed to fire 2 clips with the 10mm Pistol close enough to his head before he murdered me. I was shaking a bit at the end.
- I was strolling happily around a known, "secured" area. A random goddamn Super Mutant yells at me, running at my directly, and I'm still badly hurt from last fights - Horizon has too expensive heals and even more expensive instant-heals on the beginning (and you have to craft 98% of those)..I panicked but managed to headshot him repeatedly right before he was about to hit me. That hit would definitely instakill me, and I think I was still Level 2. I have absolutely no idea where that thing came from.
I'm loving it.
Post by: umiman on March 31, 2017, 03:03:35 am
Post by: scriver on March 31, 2017, 04:28:57 am
Post by: Gabeux on April 04, 2017, 02:11:07 am
And did anyone play with the War of the Commonwealth mod? I put it on the lowest settings, as it would probably throw balance all over the place if used on the defaults with Horizon, but it's a really cool mod.
I think the idea of Horizon is to make loot really bad, so sometimes you kill raiders and you find "Broken Rifle" on them instead of a shiny sniper rifle. With WotC it can spawn insane stuff really early - first time I leave Sanctuary I bump into Child of Atom, Ferals and an Adventurer all shooting at one another. As I do the clean up, I get a Gamma Gun. On level ~4 (4-5h playtime) I killed a ton of gunners and got a Laser Gun and a Sniper Rifle..and killed Forged and got some really good armor very early on.
I'm not sure Horizon expects that, but it still feels fun, weird and random..and the spawns can be damn hard/insane. It gets tactical even if you bring decent guns.
What's annoying me a bit is the Exploration mods that add exteriors locations/interiors for you to find. I'll have to ignore the interiors for a while as they just love to give you loot, and sometimes it feels nonsensical. But it is funny to see something weird in a river and it is a "drowned" raider with his loot still on him, or killing a raider and checking his tent and finding out his partner is dead with a few drugs around him. Some of those tents/camps aren't vanilla, and they aren't flooded in loot so it feels like a nice touch.
And today I got mad as an infection made me waste 2 adhesive to make bandages. I could have duct-taped better damage with that!
Post by: marples on April 04, 2017, 04:49:14 am
The 'Everyone's best friend' mod didn't seem to cause any issues when I met Preston with both Dogmeat and Codsworth.
Post by: Gabeux on April 04, 2017, 05:06:37 am
Once you get Lead Belly / Medic, you can get around a bit by buying food and stuff you need to survive off other people, specially travelling traders. Those boring traders from vanilla actually become useful.
Now it's pretty good, I've got a Purifier running but I don't see purified water on the inventory yet, so I have no idea if its working. I also put down a few plots for the Sim Settlements mod, and that's such a cool mod! I'm not sure how it works as I still only have the initial dudes from Preston - and my first settler died by simply looking at a Mole Rat, which I'm still wondering what happened there - but Sanctuary looks like an actual settlement/town (a shitty one, made by someone who can't bother with design)!
I'll do the good ol' spreading Recruitment Beacons and transferring folks to Sanctuary trick and see what happens.
Note that Sim Settlements override Horizon's craziness with locking settlement-building things, so you can build shops (not sure if those are functional), and industry - which for now I've only seen scrap yards, and those help with scavanging. For some reason, Horizon locks the Scavanging station until you get Local Leader, which takes a [long] while compared to vanilla.
So I guess I'm not playing Misery Mod, or it isn't as hard as Horizon guy want it to be. But it feels less artificially hard.
Post by: MarcAFK on April 04, 2017, 08:25:41 am
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on April 06, 2017, 07:30:10 pm
Post by: Gabeux on April 06, 2017, 09:13:11 pm
Here
I'll
mark
it
on
your
map
I actually felt triggered when he said that...I finally got over Post Preston Traumatic Disorder..I was already just taking his lines as a meme..but they are real.
First playthough I wasted so much time with those quests thinking they were part of some storyline..
And I'm still having fun with Horizon + War of the Commonwealth. It gets a weird balance as Horizon doesn't really expect you to get a Gatling Laser at Level 5, but having gear from WotC encounters doesn't mean anything when you can't even make good use for them, or have enough ammo for more than a battle or two.
Post by: Megawott06 on April 07, 2017, 03:02:51 pm
Post by: Jimmy on April 08, 2017, 01:17:26 am
Post by: MarcAFK on April 08, 2017, 01:39:58 am
TBH I really want a mod that lets me set a quickmenu or hotkey to consume a random chem from inventory. Or food, or equip random weapon, etc.
Post by: Rolan7 on April 08, 2017, 01:42:46 am
Of course, the 3D Fallout justice system is a piece of shit.
Oblivion and Skyrim aren't so bad, honestly.
Post by: Jimmy on April 09, 2017, 09:23:15 am
I think Boston Common would be a great spot for a settlement. Just clear Swan and it's got everything you could want!
Post by: Gabeux on April 12, 2017, 02:08:23 am
Now I order them and they just stand still, brain dead.
I'm wondering if some mod breaks them, they seem derpier than vanilla.
PS: Horizon has reached 1.0 and Sim Settlements also has a new update. Wooo
Post by: scriver on April 12, 2017, 03:57:13 am
Route-makers always started routing pretty much immediately iirc, though.
Post by: Gabeux on April 12, 2017, 04:05:01 am
Updating both Sim Settlements and Horizon seems to have fixed it - settlers seem less derpy and when ordering them to move, they do it immediately. I'm not sure any mods touched anything, it might've been load order (as LOOT load order actually breaks some stuff for me).
Post by: Jimmy on April 12, 2017, 05:51:44 am
Post by: Megawott06 on April 15, 2017, 08:46:15 am
Post by: Krevsin on April 15, 2017, 08:59:55 am
Post by: Ultimuh on April 27, 2017, 04:28:46 pm
Specifically a mod which adds a power armor or something, that looks like the Power Loader from the Aliens franchise (http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Caterpillar_P-5000_Work_Loader).
But as I stated above.. I cannot find find that mod anywhere even though I KNOW I have seen such a mod before.
I'm just posting this here, in case anyone might know what could have happened to that mod.
Post by: NullForceOmega on April 27, 2017, 04:31:07 pm
Post by: Ultimuh on April 27, 2017, 04:32:54 pm
The Constuction Power Armor, it comes in two varieties, a standalone with just the armor, and in Commonwealth Scavvers. Just search 'construction power armor' on the Nexus and it's the only thing that pops at all.What? Really? I thought about it but.. Huh.. Maybe I remembered things all wrong?
Post by: NullForceOmega on April 27, 2017, 04:34:11 pm
Post by: Ultimuh on April 27, 2017, 04:36:12 pm
My memory of what I may or may not have seen have been quite.. fuzzy lately..
Is this what ageing feels like? (In my mid-30ies.)
Post by: nenjin on April 27, 2017, 04:42:24 pm
Is this what ageing feels like? (In my mid-30ies.)
That, and then some.
Post by: Ultimuh on April 27, 2017, 05:34:57 pm
Stuff like this annoys me greatly.
I suppose I will now have to put these mods on a secure storage device or something, in case I should lose them.
edit: Fixed minor grammar.
Post by: Retropunch on April 27, 2017, 06:49:53 pm
Post by: Gabeux on April 28, 2017, 05:07:52 am
Post by: umiman on April 28, 2017, 10:44:43 am
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/searchresults/?src_order=1&src_sort=0&src_view=2&src_tab=1&src_name=snap&src_language=0&src_showadult=1&page=1&pUp=1
Post by: Ultimuh on April 28, 2017, 12:12:25 pm
It always sucks when a mod author does a temper tantrum, but the beauty of mods and the internet is that if it's popular and online... it ain't gone:
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/searchresults/?src_order=1&src_sort=0&src_view=2&src_tab=1&src_name=snap&src_language=0&src_showadult=1&page=1&pUp=1
Oh but it is. There are translations of a few of those mods, but the main mods from that very author is gone.
edit: But give enough time, and hopefully someone on the interwebs might upload the files. Just not the original author though.
Post by: MarcAFK on May 01, 2017, 09:03:21 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Aseaheru on May 01, 2017, 04:57:25 pm
Post by: Ultimuh on May 01, 2017, 05:08:15 pm
(Craftable Steel Warhammer and Sword are included in the mod.)
Spoiler: Look at this beauty. (Warning! Large image!) (click to show/hide)
Post by: Aseaheru on May 01, 2017, 07:47:59 pm
Post by: Ultimuh on May 01, 2017, 07:52:23 pm
Post by: Aseaheru on May 01, 2017, 08:42:06 pm
Post by: Draignean on May 01, 2017, 09:43:45 pm
Post by: Neonivek on May 01, 2017, 10:15:56 pm
I like the helmet, the rest of the armor is silly and makes me sad.
Well... Warhammer was always a rule of cool... and takes place in a universe where rule of cool actually means something
Or rather... It is a universe where racing stripes really does make your car go faster.
Post by: scriver on May 02, 2017, 12:38:35 am
I like the helmet, the rest of the armor is silly and makes me sad.
Well... Warhammer was always a rule of cool... and takes place in a universe where rule of cool actually means something
Or rather... It is a universe where racing stripes really does make your car go faster.
It's an the Elder Scrolls armour, not a Warhammer/40K one.
Post by: Baijiu on May 02, 2017, 01:16:24 pm
There really needs to be a settlement between Hangman's Alley and Jamaica Plains. The hike between the two is straight through central Boston and it's a nightmare on Survival mode. Gunners, Raiders, Ghouls, Super Mutants and more all waiting to pop out and send me back to my bed.
I think Boston Common would be a great spot for a settlement. Just clear Swan and it's got everything you could want!
There's a mod that adds a settlement called Evan's Way, near that raider outpost close to Diamond City in the cul-de-sac. It's packaged in a pretty cool collection of added settlements now.
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/16432/? (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/16432/?)
Post by: Cyroth on May 03, 2017, 07:15:50 am
I've installed Vex and Laura from Nexusmods, but I'm not really happy with them.
Vex was kinda bad and half bugged. She has been constantly warping around, her dialogue is bad and even her "dismiss" option is bugged for me.
Laura was disappointing right out of the gate, when her recruiting dialogue was a less eloquent version of:
You: "Hey, wanna hang out."
Her: "Sure, whatevs."
And she has been kinda meh so far. Also some quests have bugged out, and apparently that is somehow her fault (if I've read the commentary on her correctly).
I have also installed Ellen, but I must admit I have not tried her out yet, beyond picking her up and sending her to Red Rocket to wait her turn.
Her introduction was good, but I wanted to stick with Laura for a little longer to see if it gets better.
Are there any other companions I should try?
Post by: Ultimuh on May 03, 2017, 07:39:10 am
They tend to get in the way and dislike the choices I make.
Except for Dogmeat. And Valentine's my bro. Even if they make me get stuck in tiny spaces and walk into traps like they own the place.
As for custom companions? To be honest, I haven't checked.
If my experience with companion mods for Skyrim serves me right, they are mostly not that interesting.. With a very few exceptions.
edit: Found the cutest little follower ever! (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/21877/?)
Post by: Sergius on May 03, 2017, 10:51:17 am
I mean they are really well developed and everything, but it gets jarring to have this wacky reporter (definitely wacky) talking about the free press and going all something-something-amendment in the middle of a nuclear crater. Or the "gumshoe" guy with all those private eye quotes... it's like I'm walking around with characters from 80's TV sitcoms.
If I'm in the wasteland, I'd rather my companions were wasteland people that think like wasteland people and do wastelandy things... I don't want to travel with some Formula 1 driver telling me about engines and pit stops, anchorman Ron Burgundy or the entire cast of Full House. So "dime novel private eye" and "reporter on behalf of the concerned citizens" fell super out of place too.
Post by: Neonivek on May 03, 2017, 12:17:23 pm
It is actually the most annoying part about Fallout 4... pretty much period. (Well, outside the mechanics, glitches, poor plot, poor pacing, poor balancing...)
By the time we get to Fallout 6 Nuka Cola will probably be glowing green and say "Now with 50% less cancer"
Post by: Jimmy on May 03, 2017, 12:56:17 pm
Evan's Way is a good spot for a settlement! Close to Diamond City and Goodneighbour, south side of central Boston, and I like it aesthetically more than Hangman's Alley. Never did like the fact you can't remove those corpses from the eastern side entrance.
Post by: NullForceOmega on May 03, 2017, 01:01:20 pm
Post by: Ultimuh on May 03, 2017, 03:51:11 pm
Cross Crit Gore-verhaul (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/23780/?) (Punny name, I know.)
It basically turns humanoid enemies into skeletal remains when killed with a critical hit from lasers, alien lasers, plasma, and fire. (Death Claws too!)
Everything else just turns to vanilla ash or goop though.
edit: A recent update included dogs as well!
Post by: SquatchHammer on May 21, 2017, 07:17:08 pm
Post by: SOLDIER First on May 22, 2017, 02:07:00 pm
Post by: Hanslanda on July 06, 2017, 01:44:56 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 06, 2017, 03:12:47 pm
Post by: Persus13 on July 06, 2017, 03:46:43 pm
Has anyone tried doing Nuka world first and then saving the Minutemen in Concord? I think I will on my next playthrough.I know I've seen someone on Youtube do it with a level one character.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 21, 2017, 09:35:07 pm
There's a bit of discoloration because it's really fuckin' dark and Steam screenshots aren't the best to begin with.
Spoiler: Taster (click to show/hide)
Post by: Egan_BW on September 22, 2017, 02:33:55 am
Post by: Flying Dice on September 22, 2017, 06:45:18 am
Also using the new full-package texture overhaul too, ofc.
Post by: JimboM12 on September 22, 2017, 08:34:10 am
is that frikkin re7
funny, i was thinking along the lines of STALKER when i saw that.
Now I made myself want to mod FO4 into STALKER: Shadow of Fallout.
Post by: umiman on September 22, 2017, 10:01:30 am
Increased bullet damage, less bullet sponge enemies, remove all the comedic sound effects like the vats sound, etc.
Shit looks cool.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on September 22, 2017, 10:03:30 am
Post by: Reudh on September 22, 2017, 12:04:24 pm
Nah, this cool mod (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/23845/?) launched in May of this year. It's a combination weather/light overhaul, ENB preset, and dynamic music system intended to make FO4 feel like a horror game. Works really well with the directional flashlight mod.
Also using the new full-package texture overhaul too, ofc.
What sort of framerate do you get, and what rig are you using?
Post by: Flying Dice on September 22, 2017, 12:39:15 pm
Ooh man, I hope they go all the way with it.I run on Survival with some tweaks (max damage for both the player and enemies, a save item because fuck bed saving), a mod that adds a configurable bullet-time alternative to VATS (as in, you select how much it slows things down and how many AP it drains per second), and a mod that integrated non-VATS crits with the perk system. It's basically all the way there except for the lack of leaning and the abundance of ammo.
Increased bullet damage, less bullet sponge enemies, remove all the comedic sound effects like the vats sound, etc.
Shit looks cool.
Around 45-55fps in the open world, 55-60fps in interiors.Nah, this cool mod (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/23845/?) launched in May of this year. It's a combination weather/light overhaul, ENB preset, and dynamic music system intended to make FO4 feel like a horror game. Works really well with the directional flashlight mod.
Also using the new full-package texture overhaul too, ofc.
What sort of framerate do you get, and what rig are you using?
CPU: i7-4790
GPU: GTX970
16GB RAM
Also running stuff like the unofficial patch, Vivid all-in-one (with the "best choice" package that improves textures and performance from vanilla rather than the 2k or 4k textures on everything), TrueGrass, maxed draw distance for everything but grass (and grass at ~70%), a bunch of minor graphical bumps like IBT, long range bullet holes, shell rain, high-res body textures, a bunch of high-res weapons and armor.
So it actually handles it pretty well. Performs better than I was getting from vanilla and lightly modded, I think mostly thanks to the Vivid optimizations. And the fact that Pilgrim's weather has a lot of fog and rain means that you don't have to spend much time looking at the fugly long-range terrain that looks like someone with scabby pockmarked skin.
Post by: Astral on September 22, 2017, 07:40:07 pm
Post by: Sensei on September 23, 2017, 12:39:07 am
Post by: Reudh on September 23, 2017, 05:55:46 am
Ooh man, I hope they go all the way with it.I run on Survival with some tweaks (max damage for both the player and enemies, a save item because fuck bed saving), a mod that adds a configurable bullet-time alternative to VATS (as in, you select how much it slows things down and how many AP it drains per second), and a mod that integrated non-VATS crits with the perk system. It's basically all the way there except for the lack of leaning and the abundance of ammo.
Increased bullet damage, less bullet sponge enemies, remove all the comedic sound effects like the vats sound, etc.
Shit looks cool.Around 45-55fps in the open world, 55-60fps in interiors.Nah, this cool mod (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/23845/?) launched in May of this year. It's a combination weather/light overhaul, ENB preset, and dynamic music system intended to make FO4 feel like a horror game. Works really well with the directional flashlight mod.
Also using the new full-package texture overhaul too, ofc.
What sort of framerate do you get, and what rig are you using?
CPU: i7-4790
GPU: GTX970
16GB RAM
Also running stuff like the unofficial patch, Vivid all-in-one (with the "best choice" package that improves textures and performance from vanilla rather than the 2k or 4k textures on everything), TrueGrass, maxed draw distance for everything but grass (and grass at ~70%), a bunch of minor graphical bumps like IBT, long range bullet holes, shell rain, high-res body textures, a bunch of high-res weapons and armor.
So it actually handles it pretty well. Performs better than I was getting from vanilla and lightly modded, I think mostly thanks to the Vivid optimizations. And the fact that Pilgrim's weather has a lot of fog and rain means that you don't have to spend much time looking at the fugly long-range terrain that looks like someone with scabby pockmarked skin.
I might pick up Vivid. I have an i5-4690k, so like one rung below your CPU, and a GTX 1060; graphically it's vanilla, ultra @ 1080p, and I get 60fps most areas, which usually stutters periodically, dropping as low as 24fps in parts of Boston proper.
Post by: Flying Dice on September 23, 2017, 07:19:59 am
Make sure you're using whatever that dynamic shadow draw distance mod was called. I have a GTX970 and it helped my framerate keep a steady 60 in cities with the graphics almost maxed out otherwise (at 1080p). It's especially noticeable because city areas are where there are the most shadows which cause huge framerate hits, but you can't actually see most of them because they're behind things. I think the vanilla game lacks any kind of culling for lighting effects.Yes! I forgot to mention this, it's fantastic. http://www.dev-c.com/fallout4/shadowboost/ (http://www.dev-c.com/fallout4/shadowboost/)
I might pick up Vivid. I have an i5-4690k, so like one rung below your CPU, and a GTX 1060; graphically it's vanilla, ultra @ 1080p, and I get 60fps most areas, which usually stutters periodically, dropping as low as 24fps in parts of Boston proper.Definitely do. I gained around 5fps just going from a mix of vanilla and the various Vivid packs from older releases to the all-on-one Vivid with more coverage.
Post by: Damiac on September 26, 2017, 12:41:28 pm
My main issue with this game now that I have a pretty good gaming laptop is the damn load times. My god, I can only play the game through about 5 or 6 big map loads before I'm just sick of it. I like survival mode, but the no fast travel means a hell of a lot more area transitions and loading. Is there anything I can do to make the loading faster?
It seems like it takes a minute or so to load the transition from diamond city to outside, for example. Even things like leaving the dugout inn and going into diamond city take longer than they seem like they should.
Post by: umiman on September 26, 2017, 02:55:47 pm
Post by: Astral on September 26, 2017, 07:41:35 pm
Post by: scriver on September 27, 2017, 01:26:40 am
What I really want, I guess, is F4 New Vegas. But I'm almost given up hope on that being the secret acrual reason Avellone went to work on Bethesda by now.
Post by: Jimmy on September 27, 2017, 05:07:22 am
I've restarted my Survival game since my last PC died. Level 19 so far, maxed out Codsworth's relationship, working next on Piper. Only just reached Diamond City, and haven't even started any of the main story line quests besides rescuing Preston & Co. Putting ranks into the vital perks of Rifleman, Gun Nut, Armorer, Locksmith, Hacker, Sneak, Chemist and Science! I went with a SPECIAL spread of 4/4/4/3/7/3/3. Right now I'm surviving by using chems until I get decent power armor, which I figure I'll grab when I pick up Ada and the full set of X-01 power armor from the Mechanist storyline.
This is all on a vanilla install too, no mods. Yep, hardcore survivalist mode with only beds for saves. HTFU, noobs.
Post by: scriver on September 27, 2017, 05:20:22 am
Post by: Jimmy on September 27, 2017, 05:24:48 am
Post by: Astral on September 27, 2017, 06:44:29 am
Even 100%ing the game isn't enough, when there are potentially full conversion mods like DUST (which turns NV into a die a lot survival simulation) or FROST (which does the same for 4).
They also help age-proof the game to a certain extent, since annoyances that were overlooked in nostalgia can be changed to fit whatever you want.
Post by: scriver on September 27, 2017, 06:49:56 am
If Bethesda get points for one thing, it's that their games are eminently replayable. Hell, just gen a new game, skip returning to Sanctuary, and go deliberately visit every location you've never done in the game yet. Unless you have 100%ed the game before, there's gotta be content you've never played.
There's a bunch of stuff up in the north east, and I've never finished any of the main questlines, but no, a handful of location I haven't been is not enough when the game has played out it's fun.
Post by: Sergius on September 27, 2017, 10:59:58 am
Interestingly, if you go that route, you get Dogmeat from Nick instead of some random fuel station.
I'm not going to do Survival, I did it once but to me it feels like busywork. It was fine the first few levels because of the very fast leveling, then it turned impossible when trying to do the initial arena in Nuka World. I'd rather enjoy myself.
This time, my intention is to actually join one of the Nuka World gangs and conquer the Commonwealth.
Post by: Astral on September 27, 2017, 06:37:56 pm
I did like the fact that enemies weren't bullet sponges (one of the most egregious parts of playing "hard" difficulties), so paying attention and getting the first shot off is far more important than having hugely overpowered gear... and it tended to open up a few more avenues that I normally wouldn't consider (such as mines and other explosives, which normally aren't worth the setup time in my opinion).
Post by: SOLDIER First on September 27, 2017, 07:52:57 pm
Post by: Jimmy on September 28, 2017, 02:04:37 am
Post by: Damiac on September 28, 2017, 09:47:29 am
You just bought a gaming laptop that doesn't have an ssd?
Yeah... I mean I didn't want to spend a ton of money, I got a laptop that was a little old (6 months to a year out of date) and on sale, adding the SSD would have jacked the price way up. So you're saying the load time comes down to HDD access, and therefore there's not much I can do to improve it. Would lowering texture quality mean I have less to load at each transition?
Is load time significantly better on a SSD? Also, how are external SSDs? Are they limited so much by the USB connection that you don't benefit from the faster disk access?
Post by: umiman on September 28, 2017, 10:10:06 am
Windows boots in like... 2 seconds.
Warhammer Total War loading times go from 10 minutes to a few seconds.
It's inevitable that if you want to PC game these days you will probably need an SSD. The alternative is your circumstance where you have to wait forever to load anything. If you have patience then that's fine, but if not you should invest in one.
This is because load times are never going to improve. Texture sizes are only going up, not down. Those are the main culprit to load times. Also because of the increasing complexity to games, load time optimization will naturally get the short stick.
I'm not an expert on SSDs so I can't tell you how an external one would work but what I can tell you is not to cheap out on no name brand SSDs if you're putting important stuff on it. I had an ADATA SSD to start and in 2 weeks the entire thing decided to wipe itself randomly, destroying my windows and games partition. This is a known issue with shitty old SSDs where they can get completely screwed up if there's a power issue. (https://www.extremetech.com/computing/169124-the-mysteriously-disappearing-drive-are-power-outages-killing-your-ssds)
Regular hard drives don't have that issue because they kinda fail in stages. So you can tell if it's failing by strange issues or your computer straight up telling you. Then you can take measures to save your data. SSDs fail in one shot, and everything disappears when it fails.
Since then I returned the ADATA and bought a Samsung drive. Not only was it way way way faster, but I haven't had any strange problems.
A nice side effect on an SSD is how quiet your computer gets. It also uses less power, generates less heat, etc.
---------
Tl:;dr: if you have issues with load times in modern games, buy an SSD.
Post by: nenjin on September 28, 2017, 10:30:50 am
It's not a performance improvement to the point I'm ready to replace my standard HDD (because big SSD still cost an arm and a leg, they're an access medium not a storage medium), but I'm thinking about it for the future now.
Post by: ZeroGravitas on September 28, 2017, 10:45:35 am
the only application for an HDD is like, you actually need 8 TB of data storage or something. for an installed steam library of like 200-300gb, a $150 500gb SSD is more than enough.
Post by: nenjin on September 28, 2017, 10:50:46 am
Plus using extra writes/deletes on an SSD to clear up space constantly seems self-defeating.
Post by: umiman on September 28, 2017, 10:55:21 am
I highly recommend it. Even the noise reduction is worth it I think. Honestly they aren't too expensive. My Samsung 500gb cost me around $200. I still have around 4tb of regular hard drives for storing everything else. The SSD is only for Windows and load-heavy games.
Post by: ZeroGravitas on September 28, 2017, 10:55:49 am
You just bought a gaming laptop that doesn't have an ssd?
Yeah... I mean I didn't want to spend a ton of money, I got a laptop that was a little old (6 months to a year out of date) and on sale, adding the SSD would have jacked the price way up. So you're saying the load time comes down to HDD access, and therefore there's not much I can do to improve it. Would lowering texture quality mean I have less to load at each transition?
Is load time significantly better on a SSD? Also, how are external SSDs? Are they limited so much by the USB connection that you don't benefit from the faster disk access?
i use both external and internal SSDs, and you shouldn't lose much speed with USB 3.0 instead of, say, eSATA (i use these (https://www.amazon.com/Inateck-Inch-Drive-Enclosure-External/dp/B00FCLG65U/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1506613640&sr=8-3&keywords=inateck+ssd+enclosure)) so if you don't want to open your case or don't have eSATA then it's really fine to use an external SSD. It's still a huge upgrade over traditional HDD for basically everything.
Post by: ZeroGravitas on September 28, 2017, 10:59:27 am
I'm at 1.5 terabytes for my installed Steam games. So, I kind of disagree. Reinstalling big AAA games or games like fucking Payday 2 is a pain in the ass, so I like a big drive so I don't have to play the "hard drive cleaning" mini game every few months.
Plus using extra writes/deletes on an SSD to clear up space constantly seems self-defeating.
1.5 tb... wow. well, yeah, ok then. i mean that has to be like how many AAA games installed at the same time? 15-20?
Post by: Reudh on September 28, 2017, 11:24:17 am
I'm at 1.5 terabytes for my installed Steam games. So, I kind of disagree. Reinstalling big AAA games or games like fucking Payday 2 is a pain in the ass, so I like a big drive so I don't have to play the "hard drive cleaning" mini game every few months.
Plus using extra writes/deletes on an SSD to clear up space constantly seems self-defeating.
I'm at 887GB for my installed games; i have 160ish total, 145 installed. Biggest offenders are Shadow of Mordor, at 56GB, and fallout 4/ skyrim both in mid 20s each.
Post by: nenjin on September 28, 2017, 11:35:01 am
Witcher, FO4, Skyrim, XCOM2.....with the mods graphic packs added in, those bastards get YUGE.
Shadow of Mordor at 56 gigs...really? Jesus. I have that installed too. Will get rid of that as soon as Shadow of War releases, for sure.
Post by: Reudh on September 28, 2017, 11:37:49 am
Feels like the number is getting smaller every year because the games keep getting bigger. Like, PD2 I think clocks in at around 40 gigs now. Vermintide is I think 34 gigs or something. GTA5 is like 30+ gigs. I feel like the average big title is around 25 gigs and it only goes up from there.
Witcher, FO4, Skyrim, XCOM2.....with the mods graphic packs added in, those bastards get YUGE.
Shadow of Mordor at 56 gigs...really? Jesus. I have that installed too. Will get rid of that as soon as Shadow of War releases, for sure.
Aha, I was wrong, it's 43ish GB. I have GTAV on disc, it was a 55GB install + a 6.1GB patch if I recall. Shadow of Mordor has tonnes of uncompressed textures, iirc, which is why it's so big.
Post by: ZeroGravitas on September 28, 2017, 11:58:16 am
Post by: nenjin on September 28, 2017, 12:09:18 pm
Post by: Egan_BW on September 28, 2017, 01:14:13 pm
Post by: nenjin on September 28, 2017, 01:18:48 pm
But I expect we're approaching the time (since most devs develop on SSDs) where your average not-pixel indie game is going to require a way higher rate of data transfer than HDDs can provide. At that point I'll switch to an SSD for my main drive. Low boot times are nice but they're not on the top of my list for must-have performance enhancements.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 01, 2017, 12:42:14 pm
I liked survival mode, with some concessions made for autosaves due to mod instability. Dying is one thing, crashing after you're 30 minutes from your last autosave is infuriating, and the fact that you basically have to roleplay a narcoleptic just to continue the game (and the fact that 1 hour autosave naps can still cause illness) didn't sit well with me.
I did like the fact that enemies weren't bullet sponges (one of the most egregious parts of playing "hard" difficulties), so paying attention and getting the first shot off is far more important than having hugely overpowered gear... and it tended to open up a few more avenues that I normally wouldn't consider (such as mines and other explosives, which normally aren't worth the setup time in my opinion).
There's a mod I use (I'll dig up a link if you're interested) that lets you add save items which you can hotkey to use. Thing is, their saves take a while to show up, so you'll generally only be able to see them ~15-30 minutes after you make them. However, you'll still automatically reload the most recent one when you die. Essentially it's the security against time waste that you get from quicksave, but you can't use it to casually savescum.
Post by: Damiac on October 02, 2017, 01:54:54 pm
I believe no effort was made to streamline loading in fallout 4, because skyrim is running off a dvd on my xbox360 and the area transitions are a lot faster! DVDs are a hell of a lot slower than HDDs...
I suppose I'd get faster turn processing in Aurora 4x on a SSD, at least assuming the actual I/O task is the bottleneck there, rather than the database driver.
I suppose I should look at getting a decent external SSD. Especially since this problem is only going to keep getting worse (both more stuff to load and seemingly less effort made to streamline said loading) I doubt I'd want my entire computer running on an SSD, just seems overly expensive for not enough benefit, but a 500 gig ssd could hold the few games that need the faster IO times.
I'll have to check whether my laptop does have a SATA port.
As for CRT monitors, if it weren't for the fact that they're giant and heavy as all hell, I'd happily use them over flatscreens. It's not so bad now as it was when they were new, but they've all got a little bit of inherent lag that CRTs don't. Of course, I'm not sure what the real limit is to CRT resolution, since I believe the reason for the lack of lag is the fact that it's analog rather than digital. Still, there are people who refuse to play games like super smash bros on a flatscreen and insist on CRTs, due to the perceptible lag.
Post by: milo christiansen on October 02, 2017, 05:14:04 pm
I too, am on a harddrive (a cheap 7200 RPM model) and the only game with truely anoying load times is... Fallout 4.
Post by: Flying Dice on October 03, 2017, 07:47:28 am
To be honest, this is the only game where the load times are a noticeable problem. As you said, the damn textures keep getting bigger, and it's not like the old days where you just loaded everything into memory when you started the game, so you just had one big load at the beginning and then smooth sailing from there.Wrong thread, sorta.
I believe no effort was made to streamline loading in fallout 4, because skyrim is running off a dvd on my xbox360 and the area transitions are a lot faster! DVDs are a hell of a lot slower than HDDs...
I suppose I'd get faster turn processing in Aurora 4x on a SSD, at least assuming the actual I/O task is the bottleneck there, rather than the database driver.
I suppose I should look at getting a decent external SSD. Especially since this problem is only going to keep getting worse (both more stuff to load and seemingly less effort made to streamline said loading) I doubt I'd want my entire computer running on an SSD, just seems overly expensive for not enough benefit, but a 500 gig ssd could hold the few games that need the faster IO times.
I'll have to check whether my laptop does have a SATA port.
As for CRT monitors, if it weren't for the fact that they're giant and heavy as all hell, I'd happily use them over flatscreens. It's not so bad now as it was when they were new, but they've all got a little bit of inherent lag that CRTs don't. Of course, I'm not sure what the real limit is to CRT resolution, since I believe the reason for the lack of lag is the fact that it's analog rather than digital. Still, there are people who refuse to play games like super smash bros on a flatscreen and insist on CRTs, due to the perceptible lag.
That said, I recall Steve confirming that one of the primary causes of slowdown was VB6 Aurora's frequent writing to the Access database most of the game data is stored in.
Here's (http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=9117.0) a thread of him discussing possible alternative approaches for C# Aurora.
As for FO4, one of the reasons to use the Vivid textures is that they're optimized for better performance, which feels like faster load-times to me.
Post by: Damiac on October 03, 2017, 08:26:31 am
Any recommendations for alternate start/skip the prologue type mods? I don't think I could bear to go through that again... it was cool the first time, but just annoying every time since.
I like survival mode... in theory. I like the idea of having to eat and drink and sleep(although these needs are completely trivial to manage). I like the idea of combat being quicker and deadlier (although I hate the high level bullet sponge raiders.) I sort of like the idea of limited saving, as it does increase tension to a degree and give a more roguelike feel (but I don't like replaying the same content and I especially don't like having to load 3 transitions at a minute a pop every time I try again). The lack of fast travel makes for some interesting moments(but the drudgery of walking through the same empty place for the 50th time gets old).
The diseases are a complete miss for me, they just seem completely arbitrary and mostly serve to punish you for saving. If clean food and water were scarcer and one had to risk eating contaminated food to survive they might make for an interesting choice, but as it is I only ever get diseases from sleeping, which I'm usually just doing to save.
So... any recommendations for either a separate survival mode mod, or mods to improve some of survival mode's shortcomings?
Post by: Flying Dice on October 03, 2017, 08:45:40 am
There are two mods for alternate starts. One doesn't play nice with some other mods, I use the second one (http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/18946).
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 03, 2017, 08:54:17 am
Here.Cigarettes are usable and function as saves. By default they play a 30(or 60, I forgot)- second animation of your character taking a nice smoke break before saving. You can walk around and such but not cancel it.
(https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/11348/?)
Post by: ZeroGravitas on October 03, 2017, 09:14:26 am
To be honest, this is the only game where the load times are a noticeable problem. As you said, the damn textures keep getting bigger, and it's not like the old days where you just loaded everything into memory when you started the game, so you just had one big load at the beginning and then smooth sailing from there.
I believe no effort was made to streamline loading in fallout 4, because skyrim is running off a dvd on my xbox360 and the area transitions are a lot faster! DVDs are a hell of a lot slower than HDDs...
I suppose I'd get faster turn processing in Aurora 4x on a SSD, at least assuming the actual I/O task is the bottleneck there, rather than the database driver.
I suppose I should look at getting a decent external SSD. Especially since this problem is only going to keep getting worse (both more stuff to load and seemingly less effort made to streamline said loading) I doubt I'd want my entire computer running on an SSD, just seems overly expensive for not enough benefit, but a 500 gig ssd could hold the few games that need the faster IO times.
I'll have to check whether my laptop does have a SATA port.
I haven't played Aurora 4x so I'm not sure about whether you'd get faster turn processing there. I would say that putting your OS on the SSD is one of the best things you can do, especially because you can and should do it using a relatively smaller and cheap SSD. There is some benefit to putting your OS on a separate drive from your games library, just logistically (for windows reinstalling/drive death/etc) but I've also been told for performance. Windows 10 is like, what, 25 gb? (for 64-bit). So there's a significant benefit you can achieve by investing less than $50 for a small SSD (60-100gb).
Post by: Damiac on October 03, 2017, 12:46:57 pm
Now, having my swap file on an SSD makes sense, and maybe that's what you're thinking of? That gets used as "virtual memory", so depending on memory usage you could be spending a lot of time reading off and writing to the hard drive. I'd imagine a huge performance benefit from an SSD, although that's also beating on those limited writes, since that file is constantly being modified. But a $50 ssd could probably last a good long time before it finally gave out, if I were just using it for that.
Maybe there's something I'm fundamentally not understanding, but is there actually a benefit to the OS on a SSD, aside from the aforementioned faster boot times?
Post by: umiman on October 03, 2017, 01:08:46 pm
What benefit would having the OS on an SSD have, outside of fast boot times and launching OS specific applications? I'd think everything else is read off the HD at boot, or when first called, then sits in memory from that point on, unless explicitly terminated.I think at this point you should make your own thread about this. You seem really intent on trying to figure out a cost effective way to get an SSD and this is the Fallout 4 thread where we bitch about Bethesda being cunts and post pictures of grainy screenshots with nothing much going on. Then we jack off each other by trying to subtly prove we're smarter than one another.
Now, having my swap file on an SSD makes sense, and maybe that's what you're thinking of? That gets used as "virtual memory", so depending on memory usage you could be spending a lot of time reading off and writing to the hard drive. I'd imagine a huge performance benefit from an SSD, although that's also beating on those limited writes, since that file is constantly being modified. But a $50 ssd could probably last a good long time before it finally gave out, if I were just using it for that.
Maybe there's something I'm fundamentally not understanding, but is there actually a benefit to the OS on a SSD, aside from the aforementioned faster boot times?
We're a higher caliber of discussion than the optimum strategy for budget SSD utlitization in the year 2017.
Post by: ZeroGravitas on October 03, 2017, 01:44:06 pm
What benefit would having the OS on an SSD have, outside of fast boot times and launching OS specific applications? I'd think everything else is read off the HD at boot, or when first called, then sits in memory from that point on, unless explicitly terminated.
Now, having my swap file on an SSD makes sense, and maybe that's what you're thinking of? That gets used as "virtual memory", so depending on memory usage you could be spending a lot of time reading off and writing to the hard drive. I'd imagine a huge performance benefit from an SSD, although that's also beating on those limited writes, since that file is constantly being modified. But a $50 ssd could probably last a good long time before it finally gave out, if I were just using it for that.
Maybe there's something I'm fundamentally not understanding, but is there actually a benefit to the OS on a SSD, aside from the aforementioned faster boot times?
Aha, yes! The swap file. Thanks. I knew it was some kind of back-end thing but couldn't recall what or why. Is that the same as the page file?
But yeah, otherwise you're just looking at insanely fast boot times, and if your web browser is installed there, faster cache loading times.
I haven't really had an SSD "give out" yet and it's been a few years. I've had a few I "retired" - like my first 64gb SSD I turned into a USB boot disk.
Post by: Damiac on October 03, 2017, 01:53:17 pm
Also, thanks for the mod suggestions. Sounds like just what I was looking for.
Post by: milo christiansen on October 03, 2017, 05:59:53 pm
Frankly, swap is a relic of days past, and should not be used on modern PCs IMHO.
Anyway, does anyone else hate the way the story makes you choose between brotherhood and railroad? I really wish there was a way to patch up their differences... A super hard and kinda hidden way maybe, but just having some way would be awesome.
(One thing I hated about F:NV was the brotherhood vs NCR conflict, the brotherhood was an importaint part of founding the NCR in the first place.)
Post by: SOLDIER First on October 03, 2017, 06:21:37 pm
Post by: Telgin on October 04, 2017, 09:43:44 am
Anyway, does anyone else hate the way the story makes you choose between brotherhood and railroad? I really wish there was a way to patch up their differences... A super hard and kinda hidden way maybe, but just having some way would be awesome.
(One thing I hated about F:NV was the brotherhood vs NCR conflict, the brotherhood was an importaint part of founding the NCR in the first place.)
Hey, but at least it was possible, if difficult, to get them to form a truce in New Vegas.
But yes, I hated a lot of the story in Fallout 4, including this. Probably a repeat of dozens of discussions in this very thread, but I kind of hated all of the factions and the ways they interacted.
The thing I hated the most though, was how the game kind of tricked me into blowing up the Prydwen for no reason. After I "beat" the game, I got the little cutscene of blowing up the Institute, and then the game dumped me back into the world. I didn't realize the game was technically over at that point, so when Preston gave me the quest to destroy the Prydwen, I thought I had to go through with it too to eliminate the Brotherhood to get the real ending. Based on the way the game's factions worked, I assumed I had to eliminate everything but my chosen faction to get the ending.
Cue lots of slaughtering Brotherhood, Codsworth chewing me out and me feeling really stupid and irritated when nothing happened afterward.
Actually, it's been long enough now that I don't really remember how I even got to that point. I'm pretty sure I ended up looking up how to just side with the Minutemen instead of any of the main factions since I didn't like any of them. That in turn required me to use console commands or something to advance broken quest triggers...
...actually, maybe I just screwed the game up in the process. I don't remember anymore.
Post by: Jimmy on October 04, 2017, 10:30:28 pm
One thing I've said before is that the Brotherhood really, really shot themselves in the foot by not negotiating with the Institute instead of destroying them. Institute tech would have been an amazing combination with the Brotherhood's paramilitary structure and really given them a shot at unifying the country again. Once Father and his Gen 3 obsession was removed, there'd be plenty of opportunities to go back to the Gen 2 models and improve them without worrisome problems like free will interfering with the results.