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The cave river creatures seem to consistently bypass my traps. The stonefall traps don't even go off!
Seeing as how my river creatures are super tough as is, from swimming, this kinda makes my fort unplayable.
I'm assuming this is a bug. If Toady reads this after his break, I've a save of my fortress with traps laid out by the river; I can send it along and all you'd need to do is station somebody by the entrance and behold the horror when something crawls out.
If there's any additional info needed for suggestions, just ask.
Note: I tried turning adventure traps on in init.txt, and one stonefall trap seemed to go off, but just one. And in other tests with it on, none have.
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Ok, this has to be a bug, I've a save now with a mudman standing directly on a weapons trap. Gonna have to postpone this fortress till there's a fix.
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I confirm, I got rhesus monkeys opening the door to my above ground towers and passing spiked balls traps without setting. Please fix that ASAP!
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I had an Iron Man waltz through a row of stonefall traps. :(
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Yeah, I never even relied so much on traps before, but considering my river creatures are insanely strong I really have no alternative. Not that it's helped. :(
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I *think* I remember toady saying something about mechanism quality affecting traps this version. maybe your traps are just not firing because you have shoddy mechanisms? try making some nice ones and see if that helps?
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Theres some videos in the somethingawful df thread showing a dragon dying by 4 stonefall traps (outside), and a titan getting caught in a cage trap. While that is a bug in itself, since they are supposed to just bypass traps, they are anything but useless.
Like the other said, perhaps you need better mechanisms? Maybe the rocks weren't loaded? Not sure.
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Rocks were definitely loaded, minus a few that I know weren't. Mechanism quality might be a factor, but for rows of traps to not go off in repeated tests seems weird. I had a snake man run through about 5 rows of traps, stone fall and weapons, and nothing (although granted my river creatures are super hell spawn: http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=000922 ). I've had frogmen go through traps without triggering. And if somebody will tell me how I can post a screen shot, I have a save game where a mud man is currently just doodling about on a weapons trap surrounded by stone fall traps and nothing happens to him.
If this is related to mechanism quality then that is a ridiculous fail ratio! Maybe the creatures learned to bypass traps somehow, because they are just that badass or something, I don't know. But I'm guessing it's a bug, a mighty mean one for me since I generally only trap sparingly and when necessary.
Edit: Cleaned up phrasing
[ November 05, 2007: Message edited by: Funkadelic Jive Turkey ]
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My stonefall traps have been triggered by both monkeys and a dragon. I haven't encountered any river creatures yet though.
[ November 05, 2007: Message edited by: Quintin Stone ]
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They kill of insane dwarves well enough
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My stonefall traps easily killed a dragon like 2 hours ago. You call this worthless? I think traps are way too powerful in fact.
your problem sounds like a bug.[ November 05, 2007: Message edited by: Tormy ]
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Err, Tormy, you say my problem sounds like a bug?
Well it's posted in bug reports isn't it? :roll: ...
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Come to mention it, none of my traps have ever gone off, either. This is with Kobold Thieves walking all over them, too.
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Kobold thieves have trap avoid, meaning they'll never set them off. I don't think regular goblin thieves do, but master goblin thieves also avoid I believe.
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Here are some worthless traps against a legendary dragon.
http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-96-onoiduruso Here are some worthless traps and a very brave horse against a legendary titan.
http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-99-mypettitan
As far as sneaky-things go, traps don't go off all the time -- there are monsters, particularly of the kobold variety, that sometimes make it almost inside my fort even with what you see here. Even once they're revealed they run around at will without getting smashed. Seeing as how it's real, real specific which ones are and are not affected, I'm not sure you could call this a bug.
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All I can say is, cage traps caught 1 rhesus macqaue, a goblin child snatcher, and two goblin invaders.
They appear to be working for me...
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quote:
Originally posted by Sophismata:
<STRONG>Come to mention it, none of my traps have ever gone off, either. This is with Kobold Thieves walking all over them, too.</STRONG>
Thieves can avoid traps.
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Anyone else have river creatures? My traps have been working fine on all the non-thief external creatures. It sounds like river creatures are getting some ability that lets them bypass. Does every legendary creature get that?
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quote:
Originally posted by Funkadelic Jive Turkey:
<STRONG>Err, Tormy, you say my problem sounds like a bug?Well it's posted in bug reports isn't it? :D
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This is the result of 1 single stonefall trap on a dragon:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2049/1890803100_21cd352682_o.gif)
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@ Dehydration: Gee thanks, wtf was the point of that? Rubbing it in? Go get in a horrible accident that paralyzes you and I'll jog circles around you while you yell "I can't move my legs."
If I knew how, I'd post screens\movies\saves of traps not working. There is no reason that I know of why traps should not work against river creatures. I know about creatures that avoid traps. Mud and Frog men are not these creatures.
I reiterate that this is posted as a bug report! Please stop trying to discredit the (apparently provocative) title.
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Ok, a video for you all. Go on and tell me it isn't a bug after seeing this mud man:
http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-109-brokentrapsandtheriverofhorrors
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I think the problem was the title of the thread mate.. ;)
Traps are not worthless, just bugged it seems like.[ November 06, 2007: Message edited by: Tormy ]
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After looking at the video, I see that the mudman is standing on a weapon trap. Weapon traps have a probability of becoming jammed every time they activate. Your dwarves, when given a chance, will unjam it. I also see that a number of your traps HAVE fired, so it seems that not all traps are quite as worthless as the thread would suggest.
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No, none have fired. Some have never gotten loaded because mechanics have been scared off\killed. The weapons trap also has never gone off let alone get jammed.
@ Tormy: Yes, they aren't worthless when they work properly. But in my situation they are. Pardon me if, in frustration, I picked a misleading title. However I'm also annoyed by people using this thread (in bug reports!) to show off the lethality of their stone fall traps, this stuff belongs in your properly named thread of Traps are too powerful. If somebody gets hit with the cursed (now gone?) inflate 3 error, somebody else posting screen shots of their world loading properly doesn't fix or prove anything.
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Mine work fine. Strange.
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I'm starting to think it might be something to do with my super monsters and not the traps themselves, since nobody else seems to have this problem.
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No, I think I know the problem --
All you who's traps work fine: Have you tried using them on natives of your area? Much the same as a diplomat will learn about traps and thus he and his nation will be immune to those he's seen, and your dwarves are immune to your own traps (because they know they're there), native denizens of your area may be inadvertently receiving knowledge of the traps, thus making them immune to them.
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I second the above. I built clever trap tunnels when I breached the nearby goblin fortress. Chortling in my best wicked manner, I lured the goblins into the tunnel expecting to see them diced and squashed. I did a double spit take as the goblins gleefully ran the gauntlet, not springing a final trap, then burst into my farming cave and commenced the slaughter.
Judging by the anecdotes thus far, it seems that native critters are immune to traps.
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What I'd consider a bug would be to be able to build rock fall traps in the open... Where exactly are they "falling" from? :P
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Hehe, very good point Eagle.
And Rondol it seems you are on to something my friend!
I guess I'm just building tame play fortresses for now. The natives I've got now could probably slaughter my pop. cap of 100 if they wanted to, and they're slowly getting restless.
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My traps have worked against both monkeys and wolves. However, these are animals that respawn and the victims were likely not original inhabitants of the map.
I also agree that stonefall traps should require a ceiling in order to work.
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quote:
Originally posted by Quintin Stone:
<STRONG>My traps have worked against both monkeys and wolves. However, these are animals that respawn and the victims were likely not original inhabitants of the map.I also agree that stonefall traps should require a ceiling in order to work.</STRONG>
When you build a stonefall trap out in the open, it comes with its own ceiling. A little room with a bunch of rocks on top, so it's no wonder nobody's fooled by it. ;)
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Except for dragons! :D
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I had a stone fall trap hit a rhesus macaque but a fire man slip through numerous stone fall and copper weapon traps (high quality mechanisms all) repeatedly in the November 23rd build. Is this likely to be Fire Men just being evil trap avoiders?
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quote:
Originally posted by Funkadelic Jive Turkey:
<STRONG>
If I knew how, I'd post screens\movies\saves of traps not working. There is no reason that I know of why traps should not work against river creatures. I know about creatures that avoid traps. Mud and Frog men are not these creatures.
</STRONG>
We need some sort of sticky post to explain this.
- Assuming you're working on a PC, you can get a screenshot w/ CTRL-PrintScreen. (Often towards the right of the keyboard.) This copies the screen to a buffer.
- Then open a graphics program and "paste" the results. I usually make a BMP (bitmap) file in Windows paint, but I'm not being very sophisticated.
- Load your picture somewhere. I've been using ImageShack which will return a link to your file when it's done. I've seen other hosting sites used, as well.
- Use the Instant UBB - Image button to embed the picture. You'll want to do some Previews to make sure you've embeded the right link. I've done thumbnails by accident many times.
- And Bjorn Stronginthearm is your uncle.
Hope this helps.Rylen
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Or you could just install Jing and use it to take and share a screenshot of a particular window or even just part of one window. (It can also record movies and encode them into a flash file, but you could use DF's built in movie recorder instead.)
[ December 01, 2007: Message edited by: Shadowlord ]
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[EDIT: note to self: remember to check for pages after page 1]
[ December 01, 2007: Message edited by: Nil Eyeglazed ]
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quote:
Originally posted by rylen:
<STRONG>Assuming you're working on a PC, you can get a screenshot w/ CTRL-PrintScreen. (Often towards the right of the keyboard.) This copies the screen to a buffer. </STRONG>
The CTRL key is unnessessary, PrintScreen works regarless of what modifier keys you press.
CRTL-PrtScrn = SHIFT-PrtScrn = PrtScrn
ALT-PrtScrn -> Just the active window
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Unless you are on a stupid microsoft wireless comfort keyboard. Then you need to make sure your F-lock is in the proper position. (And maybe this goes for other keyboards as well..)
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quote:
Originally posted by Draco18s:
<STRONG>The CTRL key is unnessessary, PrintScreen works regarless of what modifier keys you press.
CRTL-PrtScrn = SHIFT-PrtScrn = PrtScrn
ALT-PrtScrn -> Just the active window</STRONG>
I think I'm dating myself. I needed CTRL when I learned this long ago. Yep, it doesn't share with another button anymore.
R
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Hrmm... What it looks like is native, intelligent creatures gain knowledge of traps. Wolves and giant toads aren't intelligent, so they set off the traps even if they're native, since only intelligent creatures can learn about traps. To solve this, it just needs to be set so that hostile creatures do not learn about traps, regardless of whether they are in the area or not. Perhaps they might gain knowledge of a single trap if they witness it being built, but even then, it's not nessicarily obvious how to actually get past the trap, so the best they could hope for is to find another path around.
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I think theres no problem with traps. Theres problem with skills. As you can see all river creatures are ultra mighty, super agile and so on. Maybe they gain swimming skill all the time and level up to be a super monsters, which can avoid traps any time.
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I'd rather see traps made less powerful, in the olden times you could just make a long long corridor of traps and handle everything hostile with it.
In my opinion creatures should have the chance to walk past the trap without triggering the mechanism (since your dwarves continuously run over the traps I can't see them being too hard not to step into), to detect the trap and go past unharmed or if they already triggered it, to dodge the trap.
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I sincerely apologize for missing the second page of this thread before posting.
The "native inhabitant" suggestion is a pretty good one. Macaques aren't native to the map, they come from offmap. Firemen and fire imps come with it, on the other hand.
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quote:
Originally posted by Neoncat:
<STRONG>I think theres no problem with traps. Theres problem with skills. As you can see all river creatures are ultra mighty, super agile and so on. Maybe they gain swimming skill all the time and level up to be a super monsters, which can avoid traps any time.</STRONG>
I thought Toady fixed that a couple weeks ago?
Edit: Changed 'this' to 'that'.
[ December 02, 2007: Message edited by: Shadowlord ]