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Dwarf Fortress => DF General Discussion => Topic started by: Stalker on January 28, 2014, 07:38:52 pm

Title: Is this an evil sea?
Post by: Stalker on January 28, 2014, 07:38:52 pm
I created a new world (small region), and while inspecting the map I found something weird with the sea.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's the brown and redish area to the right. I've never seen this, is it an evil sea or just dwarven polution?
Title: Re: Is this an evil sea?
Post by: smjjames on January 28, 2014, 07:59:53 pm
If it looks like it would be horribly polluted or otherwise looks dead, then yes it's an evil ocean.
Title: Re: Is this an evil sea?
Post by: Aseaheru on January 28, 2014, 08:06:08 pm
Is it the ashamed sea as listed in the worlds name?
Title: Re: Is this an evil sea?
Post by: Nasikabatrachus on January 29, 2014, 04:11:28 pm
It appears to be ashamed because it didn't get to the bathroom in time.
Title: Re: Is this an evil sea?
Post by: Sizik on January 29, 2014, 08:47:33 pm
Probably also needs to see a doctor.
Title: Re: Is this an evil sea?
Post by: Midas on January 30, 2014, 11:30:27 am
Sea of vomit mixed with pus and blood.
Dwarven pollution, yes.
Title: Re: Is this an evil sea?
Post by: Stalker on January 30, 2014, 04:41:21 pm
Quote from: Midas on January 30, 2014, 11:30:27 am
Sea of vomit mixed with pus and blood.
Dwarven pollution, yes.
Sounds refreshing
Title: Re: Is this an evil sea?
Post by: Trickman on January 31, 2014, 07:51:44 am
Holy crap, please do embark on a coast of that sea and "k" it. Lol. Can evil seas be made of pus and vomit?
Title: Re: Is this an evil sea?
Post by: SanDiego on January 31, 2014, 08:16:13 am
No, but if you embark there, a sea of pus and vomit will soon form on its own.
Title: Re: Is this an evil sea?
Post by: Hectonkhyres on February 01, 2014, 09:08:33 pm
Seas like that aren't actually rare. I find them to be actual nuisances almost as bad as the dreaded good-aligned mountains, homogenous swaths of 'meh' when I'm trying to get the maximum number of biomes in a 4x4/4x5 embarkation.
Title: Re: Is this an evil sea?
Post by: Trickman on February 03, 2014, 12:12:25 pm
Quote from: Hectonkhyres on February 01, 2014, 09:08:33 pm
the dreaded good-aligned mountains
Please elaborate :o
Title: Re: Is this an evil sea?
Post by: Lielac on February 03, 2014, 01:00:11 pm
Quote from: Trickman on February 03, 2014, 12:12:25 pm
Quote from: Hectonkhyres on February 01, 2014, 09:08:33 pm
the dreaded good-aligned mountains
Please elaborate :o

Probably dreaded because dwarves (in worldgen) can only settle in neutral mountains, and like oceans mountains are all or nothing so you can get a honking great yellow mountain range that dwarves just won't build mountain halls in.
Title: Re: Is this an evil sea?
Post by: EvilBob22 on February 03, 2014, 06:46:55 pm
Quote from: Lielac on February 03, 2014, 01:00:11 pm
Quote from: Trickman on February 03, 2014, 12:12:25 pm
Quote from: Hectonkhyres on February 01, 2014, 09:08:33 pm
the dreaded good-aligned mountains
Please elaborate :o

Probably dreaded because dwarves (in worldgen) can only settle in neutral mountains, and like oceans mountains are all or nothing so you can get a honking great yellow mountain range that dwarves just won't build mountain halls in.
Or because of mountain gnomes...
Title: Re: Is this an evil sea?
Post by: Hectonkhyres on February 04, 2014, 09:12:07 pm
Mostly because they are the worst thing possible in Dwarf Fortress: Boring.

They have very little of any real interest to their name versus any other terrain type and they are eye-bleedingly aesthetically unpleasing if you don't have a graphics mod running.

Even if you don't settle on them they still screw you over by not supporting any civilization whatsoever. Large civilizations mean more varied trade goods with caravans... and only the civilization of each race nearest your embarkation point counts. Ditto for enemies. A giant fugly yellow mountain range should at least be ensuring that my home dwarven civilization is a monolithic thing with practically every type of gem or metal for my building projects. But no. Not even that.

Unfortunately, if I edit out good-aligned tiles during worldgen, I also end up losing out on unicornsmurdercorns, sunberries, and feather tree logs. And those magical times when you can get four or five MASSIVELY different biomes/surroundings on the same embarkation point.

I usually prefer smaller biome regions in worldgen for this reason... it maximized variability and increases the chance of something cool... but that has the side effect of limiting civilization side again. Civilizations can't send a settler three tiles outside of their biome type to settle the promised land on the other side. Its a 'screwed if you do, screwed if you don't' setup for me, I'm afraid.


Bah. I'm ranting. Anyway, an evil aligned sea isn't half as bad since we have yet to breed a race of marine dwarf, or any other civilized trader/enemy, but if its big enough its still annoying for how homogenous it is. You have to luck out for it to have the sort of nastiness you want since its eating half the map.

Title: Re: Is this an evil sea?
Post by: CaptainArchmage on February 06, 2014, 05:10:49 pm
What is wrong with oceans and mountains:

1) In mountains, the grass doesn't regrow because of bugs. Apparently underground is affected by this as well, including under oceans.

2) Because since 0.31.19, they are mostly covered in a thin layer of soil, it is not possible to engrave a mountain in the ways it used to be.

3) Because it is possible for a few fisherdwarves to fish an ocean clear of fish in a short period of time. I know this bug is fixed as of the next release, but it is still annoying.

4) The waves in oceans cause massive FPS loss.

5) Good and Evil mountains don't have dwarves, or in fact any sites of any kind but caves. In fact the normal mountains that have dwarves don't have any evidence of their existence.

6) There are no civilisations or other entities in Mountains but dwarves, and none in oceans, and none can utilise mountains for fun purposes like sending over raiding parties or doing things other than obtaining resources.

7) When you set a large number of good and evil tiles, they tend to congregate on mountains and oceans, because those are large regions. Really the only way to do this properly is to set a large number of small and medium sized good and evil region tiles, without many large good and evil region tiles, and even then it is not guaranteed.

Because of this I try to avoid settling in mountains or on oceans.

I agree that both oceans and mountains are rather boring, and the FPS loss on oceans makes it even worse. In order to make them interesting, we'd need to have some ability to build boats or ships in the game, and have a larger variety of events that can happen around them. The current undead sea creatures do not count, because most of the time they just stay out in the ocean and at most will scare your dwarves off from building above the ocean.
Title: Re: Is this an evil sea?
Post by: Naryar on February 09, 2014, 05:59:22 pm
Yes, it is an evil ocean.

Zombie whales, fuck yeah.
Title: Re: Is this an evil sea?
Post by: Dirst on February 17, 2014, 06:07:24 pm
Quote from: Hectonkhyres on February 04, 2014, 09:12:07 pm
Bah. I'm ranting. Anyway, an evil aligned sea isn't half as bad since we have yet to breed a race of marine dwarf, or any other civilized trader/enemy, but if its big enough its still annoying for how homogenous it is. You have to luck out for it to have the sort of nastiness you want since its eating half the map.
Has anyone managed to mod mermen (etc.) into an ocean-faring civilization?

The wagon "creature" might be a good starting point for a boat mod.  Good luck getting the boat out from the carpenter shop 9 z-levels below the surface.