AH HA! Quantum stockpile all your refuse/seeds/etc on a bridge over a series of bridges leading vertically downwards. Stand a dwarf on the one unerneath the top, open the top bridge. Move your dwarf down a level, open the next bridge. Repeat all the way down, then have a chain of minecarts to stockpile it back at the top.
Whatever method you use to load the stockpile, it's many drops for the price of one.
I can't believe we're discussing about dwarves training combat by dodging trash dropped on them.
I can't believe we're discussing about dwarves training combat by dodging trash dropped on them.
In this forum, everything is possible.
Dwarf pumping water over himself? if that adds any training value, i like the idea.I don't believe "falling" water does any damage, since in Adv. mode I recall climbing waterfalls without getting injured (that was .40d though), and you're actually throwing the "water" item, not the water tile.
From Fully Automatic Watergun (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114654.0), "Combat physics treats Water [833] as a giant rock weighing 459, IIRC, heavier than most boulders."Ooh, the fact that liquids in carts are stored as items slipped past me. I believe that boulder is a tad heavy for training purposes - the op mentions bruises through copper armor from standard boulders, and the thread you linked successfully bludgeoned goblins to death with water.
Science is required!
The Boulder-dropping experiment resulted in a BROKEN LEG, not bruising. Drop only small items.From Fully Automatic Watergun (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114654.0), "Combat physics treats Water [833] as a giant rock weighing 459, IIRC, heavier than most boulders."Ooh, the fact that liquids in carts are stored as items slipped past me. I believe that boulder is a tad heavy for training purposes - the op mentions bruises through copper armor from standard boulders, and the thread you linked successfully bludgeoned goblins to death with water.
Science is required!
It still might make good training for high-level Armor Users with great armor, as long as we can !!Science!! that xp gained scales with damage taken, and that damage still has a low enough casuality rate.
And even if it hasn't, we'll just change "Training" to "Doc Training & Not-so-natural Selection"
Another thing still to be tested is if and how damage and/or xp gained scales with fall height.
5. Armor user boost verified in the arena. Steel armored dwarf. 600 items led to "talented armor user 900/1100". 1000 items led to "professional armor user 900/1400". This means 9 xp per item. So you need about 12900 items to reach legendary (someone verify my calcs?). Note very high endurance, willpower gains.Endurance and willpower? Hmm...never thought to check those stats, was only paying attention to Toughness and Agility. "Item Dropping" really seems to train up all of the Stats that we value in a soldier.
You will have to deal with the 200 seeds per crop type limit. I'd suggest finding something else besides seeds if you want 1000's at once. Maybe 2000 socks, or other used clothing. That might reduce the number of times this thing has to be reloaded per dwarf. Perhaps quarry bush leaves would be good, since there's no 200 limit on those.
This could be a good use for old clothing. Put a refuse stockpile in the barracks that only accepts from links, drop tattered clothes from above. They land on the stockpile and eventually rot away, recruits get skill and attribute gains and no haulers are put at risk.Tattered clothing perhaps might have the abundance we are looking for and not be of lethal weight.
Clothes should be light enough to prevent military injuries, it can be automated using minecarts and auto-dumps and, best of all, old clothes are finally useful.
AH HA! Quantum stockpile all your refuse/seeds/etc on a bridge over a series of bridges leading vertically downwards. Stand a dwarf on the one unerneath the top, open the top bridge. Move your dwarf down a level, open the next bridge. Repeat all the way down, then have a chain of minecarts to stockpile it back at the top.Many drops for the price of one? I like this idea. I've been using a hatch since it responds quickly and doesn't seem to toss items the way a bridge does, but having multiple layers of "Item Drop Training Grounds" could certainly reduce the hauling cost of this training method. Can a Barracks designation extend over a hatch? If not, it might be difficult to get your dwarf to stand still in the proper location. "Defend Burrows" for a 1 tile burrow seemed to have them just stand off to the side as though they had merely been issued a "move" command to go there.
Whatever method you use to load the stockpile, it's many drops for the price of one.
What happens if you drop a dwarf and items at the same time from the same tile? Do the items hit the dwarf, or do they fall first?You'd run the risk of injuring your dwarf that way. I think 1z falls can still hurt, even in armor.
If that was workable, you'd only have to worry about burrowing the dwarf on the very top level.
Also, a child not wearing anything on his head was killed by a falling seed
Don't drop things on a Dwarf unless they are wearing METAL ARMOR.
Many drops for the price of one? I like this idea. I've been using a hatch since it responds quickly and doesn't seem to toss items the way a bridge does, but having multiple layers of "Item Drop Training Grounds" could certainly reduce the hauling cost of this training method. Can a Barracks designation extend over a hatch? If not, it might be difficult to get your dwarf to stand still in the proper location. "Defend Burrows" for a 1 tile burrow seemed to have them just stand off to the side as though they had merely been issued a "move" command to go there.
Additional research is required.
I did some arena testing and found that small non-weapon items strike with a smaller contact area than larger non-weapon items. A platinum pestle and a saguaro rib nest box both have the same weight, but the pestle chips/fractures bones while the box bruises muscle.Density being a factor in calculating bludgeoning damage makes sense...
Therefore to minimize damage (training), one wants to select small items that are also made of low-density materials. For example, plant fiber socks (pig tail, rope reed, etc.) are 3x heavier than silk or wool socks.
isn't the traditional solution to this sort of problem having a lever assigned to only the dwarf you want to train which activates a hatch above the only place you could possibly stand while operating the lever?While you're right that it work wonders for one-time activations such as "Unfortunate" accidents, the problem with that approach is the impossibility of making the machine multi-leveled (which means multiple runs before resetting), as suggested a few posts ago:
i mean, i know it's *usually* used for such purposes as drowning nobles or catapulting werecreatures into volcanoes or condemning a suspected vampire to an eternity of isolation and maddening unquenchable thirst or extracting babies from their mothers and other such horrific things, but i see no reason it *couldn't* work for making a dwarf drop one thousand dirty tattered socks on their own head just as easily as any of those other purposes.
Ral Avalgeshud, Dropping 250 seeds.
Prior After Boost
Speardwarf 0 0 0
Biter 0 0 0
Dodger 500 500 0
Fighter 0 0 0
Kicker 33 33 0
Striker 33 33 0
Wrestler 33 33 0
Armor 500 2744 2244
Shield 500 500 0
Strength 1186 1231 45
Agility 1149 1194 45
Toughness 1447 1517 70
Endurance 1177 1227 50
Recupr 1896 1896 0
Disease 1013 1013 0
Analytic 586 586 0
Creativity 1639 1639 0
Empaty 991 991 0
Focus 2023 2028 5
Intuition 842 847 5
Kinesthet 825 895 70
Linguistc 1323 1323 0
Memory 1436 1436 0
Musicality 873 873 0
Patience 812 812 0
Social Awr 973 973 0
Spatial 1498 1548 50
Willpower 816 886 70I don't know if this has been proposed, but why not used sequential training room? A bunch of 1-tile training room, each above each other, and each with a hatch on the ground. Put the soldier in the first one, drop the seeds, then move the soldier to the second one (or have another soldier there), pull a lever and he get the training from the same bunch of seed.Yes, that has been suggested, but not yet built and tested. Alternate approaches would be something with minecarts that I have yet to figure out.
Don't drop things on a Dwarf unless they are wearing METAL ARMOR.
Unless of course you don't care if the dwarf is killed. Then go right ahead.
Here we go with another stupidly overpowered danger room alternative... ;)I'm a little unclear on how this would be set up, but it does sound promising.
A 1x2 ditch with ramps so dwarves can walk right in and out, and two retracting bridges built down in it. (I think you need to temporarily open up a space to the side to build a 1x2 bridge there instead.)
Attach the bridge(s) to lever(s), then dump seeds et al. on the bridge using a dump zone inside the pit itself to avoid unintended injuries from falling items.
Get your military to stand in the pit, easier if there's nowhere else to stand on that z-level within a few tiles. Pull the lever(s) on repeat. The seeds (and dwarves) go flying, knocking into each other. It worked gloriously well with 2 1x1 bridges connected to separate levers, haven't tried a single bridge yet. I didn't see any injuries from dwarves smashing into each other either.
For some reason I seem to have lost a few seeds (dropped from 200 to 197 on the stocks screen) but besides that, all you need to do is flip the lever(s) on repeat, or build a repeater, no reloading needed.
My only regret is that it won't train shield user.
[edit] This idea was based off my "deadly disco floor" trap I tried before. A pit corridor full of retracting bridges and rocks, as well as tons of goblinite from previous victims. The disadvantage is that if a giant animal or other un-smashable creature comes in, a retracting bridge that tries to extend will be destroyed just like a drawbridge, and dwarves will rush to their doom to pick up the pieces.
Oops, sorry. The dwarves and seeds don't "fall" per se, but the effect is the same.I will have to experiment with this method of creating large numbers of flying objects on the cheap.
The physics revamp caused retracting bridges (and probably drawbridges) to only throw items 1 tile in any direction, and never throw them up 1 z-level at all.
The pit is 1 z-level deep. Just channel out 2 tiles and build bridges on the ramp tiles inside the pit. Dwarves stand in the pit with the seeds, and when the bridges retract or extend, the dwarves and seeds may get thrown into the opposite tile, repeatedly pelting them with seeds.
A 2x2 pit might work as well. A larger pit may increase the risk of dwarves smacking into each other.
This is all awesome and very dwarfy, but does it have any advantage over the standard danger room? Besides the hilarity factor, obviously.It will train up armor user and their physical attributes much better than a Danger Room does. Danger rooms give fast increases to combat SKILLS, but don't proportionally have a very great effect on their physical attributes. A danger-room will give you a legendary axedwarf who isn't necessarily Tough and Agile.
Also, this method doesn't seem as exploiting as danger rooms.This is all awesome and very dwarfy, but does it have any advantage over the standard danger room? Besides the hilarity factor, obviously.It will train up armor user and their physical attributes much better than a Danger Room does. Danger rooms give fast increases to combat SKILLS, but don't proportionally have a very great effect on their physical attributes. A danger-room will give you a legendary axedwarf who isn't necessarily Tough and Agile.
Do it with axes rather than seeds and make a highly entertaining goblin blender. Less efficient than any other trap, but good for obscure challenges.I don't believe that flying items have any sharpness (just mass and density) but I could be wrong.
I tried dropping serrated glass disks a while ago, and it made some nice goblin chunks. So sharpness is certainly a factor.Do it with axes rather than seeds and make a highly entertaining goblin blender. Less efficient than any other trap, but good for obscure challenges.I don't believe that flying items have any sharpness (just mass and density) but I could be wrong.
Assuming that falling items are treated the same way thrown items are, they would.Do it with axes rather than seeds and make a highly entertaining goblin blender. Less efficient than any other trap, but good for obscure challenges.I don't believe that flying items have any sharpness (just mass and density) but I could be wrong.
I dropped 100 lead bowls (via eagle) all at once on a steel-armored dwarf in the arena. All of the bowls deflected harmlessly off the armor.Now THAT is interesting. So, lead is heavier, but in Dwarf Fortress it's also much softer and does less damage on impact. Makes sense why we can't normally make lead war hammers, then.
I then dropped 100 iron bowls using the same method. The dwarf suffered injuries with each hit and died due to skull=>brain injury.
Lead bowls are heavier than iron bowls. However, if I repeated the iron test but modded iron from [IMPACT_YIELD:542500] to [IMPACT_YIELD:5425], the iron bowls deflect harmlessly. Lead has [IMPACT_YIELD:35000].
Now THAT is interesting. So, lead is heavier, but in Dwarf Fortress it's also much softer and does less damage on impact. Makes sense why we can't normally make lead war hammers, then.I'm pretty sure this is known but often ignored. When explaining the hierarchy of metals it's easier to say "only density matters" in blunt impact than to explain how it really works.
At one point, that was how it worked. It might still work like that for weapon-weapons...Quietust, Quietust, Quietust...Now THAT is interesting. So, lead is heavier, but in Dwarf Fortress it's also much softer and does less damage on impact. Makes sense why we can't normally make lead war hammers, then.I'm pretty sure this is known but often ignored. When explaining the hierarchy of metals it's easier to say "only density matters" in blunt impact than to explain how it really works.
I've never really set up danger rooms, they don't train dodge, at all, or just not very fast?
I tried this last night. I dropped horse hair on my dwarves and broke a load of skulls and ribs through steel armour. Am I missing something about hair being heavy?
I tried this last night. I dropped horse hair on my dwarves and broke a load of skulls and ribs through steel armour. Am I missing something about hair being heavy?
Big animal products seems to be surprisingly heavy. I'd suggest using small animal skull totems if you want byproduct dropping!
I'm sort of wondering what would happen if you take lightweight items that normally cause no injury and drop them from distances of 20+, 3ven 30Z+ levels. Assuming the items gain speed, we might be able to kill goblins with seeds.
Or, we could build a shaft from the surface straight to candyland and set up a nice spike trap there, see how many clowns die from sudden supersonic impalement.
I'm sort of wondering what would happen if you take lightweight items that normally cause no injury and drop them from distances of 20+, 3ven 30Z+ levels. Assuming the items gain speed, we might be able to kill goblins with seeds.
Or, we could build a shaft from the surface straight to candyland and set up a nice spike trap there, see how many clowns die from sudden supersonic impalement.
heh, that might be entertaining. breach the circus, then start pitting thousands of stone mugs down the spire... of course, you'd probably need a lot of blind people to keep that up. but there would be something satisfying about killing the clowns with a rain of mugs. or maybe socks. death by laundry :)
I don't understand the double bridge toss pit. Could anyone be nice enough to draw it?It's a small 1x2 retracting bridge placed in 1x2 room. Whenever the bridge is opened or shut, a number of items are flung. Actually I think ALL the items are flung, but the only ones that fly are the ones flung in the direction of the other half of the bridge. When the lever controlling the bridge is set to repeat, items will be tossed back and forth in the 2x1 room and any dwarves in there will be repeatedly plinked or pummeled (depending on armor and item weight) making this a quick way to cause a bunch of "Armor Hits" which will boost the Armor User skill, but also all of the attributes you find desirable for a military dwarf. Makes them Strong, Agile, Tough, Tireless, Coordinated, and resistant to Pain. Getting meaningful stat-boosts in these areas requires thousands of strikes, and the bridge method lets you automate the process (or at least removes the need to manually reload, since the items remain in "flinging" position.)
Seeds it is, then :(Don't feel too bad though, painful injuries are good for boosting Willpower, and they also seem to improve the weapon and fighting skills, whereas plinking off of armor affects Armor User alone.
(http://i1079.photobucket.com/albums/w508/CantrellAdjusting/Mugbruise.jpg)
time pos vel zlevel
0 0 0 0
1 0 -4900 0
2 -4900 -9800 0
3 -14700 -14700 0
4 -29400 -19600 0
5 -49000 -24500 0
6 -73500 -29400 0
7 47100 -34300 -1
8 12800 -39200 -1
9 -26400 -44100 -1
10 -70500 -49000 -1
11 30500 -53900 -2 (fell 1z and hit floor at the start of this tick)
12 -23400 -58800 -2
13 67800 -63700 -3 (fell 2z and hit floor at the start of this tick)
14 4100 -68600 -3
15 -64500 -73500 -3
16 12000 -78400 -4 (fell 3z and hit floor at the start of this tick)
17 -66400 -83300 -4
18 300 -88200 -5 (fell 4z and hit floor at the start of this tick)
19 62100 -93100 -6 (fell 5z and hit floor at the start of this tick)
20 -31000 -98000 -6
21 21000 -102900 -7 (fell 6z and hit floor at the start of this tick)
22 68100 -107800 -8 (fell 7z and hit floor at the start of this tick)
23 -39700 -112700 -8
24 0 1000 -8 (fell 8z and hit floor at the start of this tick)
State 1, Z-level 1:
LFFW
WWDW
WBBW
WWWW
State 1, Z-level 2:
WWFW
WWDW
WHHW
WWWW
State 2, Z-level 1:
LFFW
WWDW
WFFW
WWWWThat sounds incredibly easy :P.Yes, you could. I think someone's managed to drop a statue or two on HFS dweller and concussed them to death, at that. Might've been weak demons but those things HURTS!
You can replace seeds with heavy/sharp objects and Dwarf with badguys to make a blender/pulveriser too? If so, I'm totally making huge ones of these and dumping lots of bad guys in it.
AH HA! Quantum stockpile all your refuse/seeds/etc on a bridge over a series of bridges leading vertically downwards. Stand a dwarf on the one unerneath the top, open the top bridge. Move your dwarf down a level, open the next bridge. Repeat all the way down, then have a chain of minecarts to stockpile it back at the top.Seeds get placed in bags before being loaded into minecarts.
Whatever method you use to load the stockpile, it's many drops for the price of one.
I need some way to put armor on babies so I can start training them early.
I need some way to put armor on babies so I can start training them early.
If any quote described DF's core principles...
Do we know if the height the items are dropped from affects skill gain?
So... you want babies churning out razor-sharp sawblades? Theres an idea that the bay12 community can get behind!
So... you want babies churning out razor-sharp sawblades? Theres an idea that the bay12 community can get behind!
no, of course not. don't be silly.
i want *children* churning out razor-sharp sawblades (i would also settle for churning out clay pots, provided magma is involved... basically, something where they can build a potentially useful skill that doesn't require using up useful resources. i guess encrusting things with glass gems or lead or something like that could also work? maybe start up a child-powered clothing industry with the children handling the dye process?).
babies are attached to their mother anyways, so any work the baby did would essentially be replacing work the mother is doing.
(although i just had an odd random thought... in the event that a dwarf gets a fell mood, and is a mother with a baby... will the mother slaughter her baby, it being the closest dwarf?)
Do we know if the height the items are dropped from affects skill gain?
Skill gain is per-hit, regardless of how strong the hit is. This is why you want to rapidly bombard them with tiny soft objects.
Everytime one of my militia has given birth in the Danger Room, it's lead to instant baby smoothies for everyone.
Everytime one of my militia has given birth in the Danger Room, it's lead to instant baby smoothies for everyone.
FUCKIN' SIGGED
also I will definitely try this when I actually, y'know. Have enough small objects. All I have is a fuckton of boulders, and, uh. Bad idea, methinks.
So I know we confirmed seeds and ruled out mugs. Has anyone got conclusive data regarding socks or similar items yet? Because, yeah. I like using seeds for farming, personally.
Injuries cause additional skills to be trained that armor-deflections will not. A boulder the broke my test-dwarf's leg improved his Spear skill as well as Fighting, whereas seed deflections boosted only armor-user (and the combat-related attributes).Do we know if the height the items are dropped from affects skill gain?
Skill gain is per-hit, regardless of how strong the hit is. This is why you want to rapidly bombard them with tiny soft objects.
Huh. I forgot about leaves.From my experience of trying to feed a fort on nothing but fried nut-cakes, I found out that when you dump quarry-bush leaves out of the bags, the leaves will persist and will not spoil, but also don't seem to be treated as food items nor get re-bagged (as can happen with seeds).
WELP. Off to mass produce Quarry Bushes and a fuckton of bags.
Though from what I recall, and this being the reason leaves even work, is that while you need a bag to process the plants to, you can go in after the job is done and dump every individual leaf, and thus justice can prevail.
Injuries cause additional skills to be trained that armor-deflections will not. A boulder the broke my test-dwarf's leg improved his Spear skill as well as Fighting, whereas seed deflections boosted only armor-user (and the combat-related attributes).
Is anyone else having a problem using quantum's bridge tossing method. I've got it working and it trains up the armor skill and toughens up the dwarves. But I end up with a lot of broken ears and knocked out teeth that result in my dwarf dying from infection awhile later. Anyone else having this issue? Only difference in my layout vers his original design is I don't have ramps under the bridge and I have a doorway that leads into the 1x2 area with the 2 1x1 retracting bridges.
Is anyone else having a problem using quantum's bridge tossing method. I've got it working and it trains up the armor skill and toughens up the dwarves. But I end up with a lot of broken ears and knocked out teeth that result in my dwarf dying from infection awhile later. Anyone else having this issue? Only difference in my layout vers his original design is I don't have ramps under the bridge and I have a doorway that leads into the 1x2 area with the 2 1x1 retracting bridges.Just to make sure you haven't let anything obvious slip past your attention, but are your dwarves actually WEARING HELMETS? Not just have them assigned, but have helmets as their physical headgear. If dwarves have Caps of any kind as part of their clothing, and your armor is NOT set to replace clothing, then this will prevent your dwarves from donning proper protective headgear and so leave them vulnerable to head injuries.
Injuries cause additional skills to be trained that armor-deflections will not. A boulder the broke my test-dwarf's leg improved his Spear skill as well as Fighting, whereas seed deflections boosted only armor-user (and the combat-related attributes).
Sounds like the ideal way to drop-train dwarves is to bombard them with increasingly larger objects, scaling with how much their toughness improves, as well as their armor usage skill. The general concept would be to drop objects that consistently cause very minor injuries, and probably let them rest and get stitched up in a hospital in between training sessions.
Also, the perfect nickname for this room: Trauma center.
Question: What if you threw the dwarves and seeds at each other at the same time, would the dwarves be injured by the seeds? Will you be able to save the dwarves from terrible floor injuries with water? Would you gain anything from it besides the amusement? Needs ‼science‼, and we've got nice prisoner goblin-guinea-pigs. Too bad you can't build stuff in the arena.
Question: What if you threw the dwarves and seeds at each other at the same time, would the dwarves be injured by the seeds? Will you be able to save the dwarves from terrible floor injuries with water? Would you gain anything from it besides the amusement? Needs ‼science‼, and we've got nice prisoner goblin-guinea-pigs. Too bad you can't build stuff in the arena.
I'll have to test this when I get home, so what's the general consensus for the best items to use? In my experience, seeds are a real pain to keep dwarves from putting them in bags.
If there's a way to separate quarry bush leaf stacks, that might be the best bet. Unless you want to mass produce socks, in which case you have to call your training room the "socklone".
Just to make sure you haven't let anything obvious slip past your attention, but are your dwarves actually WEARING HELMETS? Not just have them assigned, but have helmets as their physical headgear. If dwarves have Caps of any kind as part of their clothing, and your armor is NOT set to replace clothing, then this will prevent your dwarves from donning proper protective headgear and so leave them vulnerable to head injuries.
Alternately, what item are you using in the pummeling-chamber?
Trader can split stacks.
Have you confirmed this?
I mean. have you set up an item drop chamber, actually made a thousand featherwood training spears, and then dropped them on someone's head? Because I don't buy it.
Plus it's a serious waste of wood. I'm going to stick to quarry bush leaves, thank -you-.
I wish there was a way to separate stacks of quarry bush leaves.Dump them out of the bag, take them to the depot, and split them up there.
I wish there was a way to separate stacks of quarry bush leaves.Dump them out of the bag, take them to the depot, and split them up there.
The seeds thing is too gamey for me, I'll just go with spears. Has to turn out better than the time I got confused about which room I was looking at and filled my danger room with candy.
However, Aluminum is a very very lightweight metal, not to mention rare, so the weight may be more because of low density than the properties of coins. Have you tested this with more common metal coins, like copper, iron, or tin?
...Do items falling on minecarts wind up in them?
...Do items falling on minecarts wind up in them?
Nope. Item ends up on ground.
nbp, Does the Coinstar injure cats, children, or babies? Since children/babies can learn, can we train them this way?
I'll have to test this when I get home, so what's the general consensus for the best items to use? In my experience, seeds are a real pain to keep dwarves from putting them in bags.
If there's a way to separate quarry bush leaf stacks, that might be the best bet. Unless you want to mass produce socks, in which case you have to call your training room the "socklone".
What... the... fuck?
I've never seen this "passes right through" before, on anything.
Does this have much of an FPS effect?
What... the... fuck?
I've never seen this "passes right through" before, on anything.
I've only seen this in combat with zombies before. If my marksdwarves are shooting at, say, a reanimated head, there'll be a lot of messages to the effect that the bolt hits the reanimated head in the lower body, but passes right through. It's clunky, but it makes sense that a bolt would pass through a non-existent body part. But the thing with the cat was definitely weird.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=119847.msg3848104#msg3848104
What stack size of coins is being used?
S = statue
D = Door
B = Bridge with ramp below it
W = wall/rock
WWW
WSW
WDW
WBBW
WWWWNo, no, the bridge IS on the floor- it's like it's sliding in and out of the wall, hitting the dwarf with a footsweep each time.
Ok I still don't get how to build one of these, even when looking atSpoiler (click to show/hide)
How the hell did the dwarves get on the bridge? Are they meant to be up top of the bridge or below it? Is it a retracting bridge? How do the coins fall but then land on the bridge again?
I want to say it's as simple as:Code: [Select]S = statue
D = Door
B = Bridge with ramp below it
W = wall/rock
WWW
WSW
WDW
WBBW
WWWW
But what about the floor below?
Seems like a slightly larger room, and more seeds or coins to offset the size of the room could increase the training rate, giving dwarves more room to stand... At the risk of being bashed into a wall or each other... Probably been brought up before, but if it increases the number of training dwarves, why not make it a bit bigger?
I did try a 4x4 room with 2 bridges and a hundred or so pig tail seeds. Worked well enough for the fledgling military I had at the time. Had a few injuries, mostly bruises, but a few broken toes. One dwarf decided leather was good enough.
You'll want to scale up the number of items along with the number of squares in order to maintain effectiveness. Also, I highly recommend switching from seeds to coins. Coins are almost completely safe.
...almost completely safe.Famous last words!
You'll want to scale up the number of items along with the number of squares in order to maintain effectiveness. Also, I highly recommend switching from seeds to coins. Coins are almost completely safe.
I'm working on trading enough single coins back to myself to make the room work efficiently now. Only the first year, and the merchants made off with quite a few coins... But I have more than enough metal present to make this work. Just need to get a repeater going, and I'll be set. Don't have a spare dwarf to pull a lever for eternity, so I guess I might as well learn the mine cart way.
Ok, that works better than what I've been doing: one at a time with a macro ><Spoiler (click to show/hide)
As to the mine cart repeater: I take it those ramps are N/S ramps, used for boosting the cart. The door is in place to close the loop, linked to a lever, while the other lever controls a roller above the door, on low speed, to give the cart a push at the start... Or is it just another ramp? I think I've seen them before, but I can't find the post for the life of me.
Isn't there still a chance of a dwarf getting seriously injured by skidding, or is a leather cloak enough to prevent that?
I had temporarily equipped my military with cloaks in addition to armor while bombarding them with seeds, and eventually got "Urist McUberdorf has become attached to a XIbex leather cloakX!" followed almost immediately by him naming it, making it an artifact. That sounds good on its face, but since it was heavily worn already it would remain so forever. You could use this to make wear-proof clothing as long as you only put dwarves wearing new clothes in the pit.
My Wave Cannon save has two of these cloaks listed in the artifacts list.
I had temporarily equipped my military with cloaks in addition to armor while bombarding them with seeds, and eventually got "Urist McUberdorf has become attached to a XIbex leather cloakX!" followed almost immediately by him naming it, making it an artifact. That sounds good on its face, but since it was heavily worn already it would remain so forever.Is that really the case?
I got this many dwarf-years before the save.Interesting feature. Finally, a reason to make adamantine clothing?
We know the items are added to the artifacts list. The real unanswered question is: do they acquire artifact properties (such as wear immunity) without actually being artifact-quality items?That would probably be easy to test without having to make sure that somebody is wearing the pseudo-artifact Xibex leatherX for several years. First, find a genuine artifact piece of clothing or armour. Then, put it on a stockpile, forbid it, and make that stockpile a refuse one. If the artifact doesn't start to wear at the same rate regular clothing or armour does, repeat the process with a pseudo-artifact and see if it starts to wear.
I'd go with describing how to use it with coins on the wiki, then continue to
"a less-micro-managerial method is to use seeds, which do not require being split up first."
However, don't seed stacks also need splitting up, or else they risk causing severe injury?
Also a single seed can be deadly, if it hits and breaks a nose or a ear.I see this like a bug so I usually mod those tissues to have a healing rate like bones have. Doesn't even require to restart the world.
Cartilage doesn't heal in vanilla, so a broken nose will get infected and that will eventually finish the dwarf off.
And any pets that happen to wander into the blender will get injured quite quickly with seeds.
I see this like a bug so I usually mod those tissues to have a healing rate like bones have. Doesn't even require to restart the world.
Whoo, neat. It's too bad babies can't be trained this wayMother drop babies when they get onto minecarts. I'm sure someone can think of an efficient way of working with that.
Since coins are harmless, you should be able to throw children in the coinstar to train them.
Although actually, if you need equipment for any skill gains to happen (does it train Dodging?), babies won't learn anything. But maybe their stats will rise.Whoo, neat. It's too bad babies can't be trained this wayMother drop babies when they get onto minecarts. I'm sure someone can think of an efficient way of working with that.
Has anyone tried using a rail shotgun with minecarts full of coins?
Has anyone tried using a rail shotgun with minecarts full of coins?
whatever for? at best, you'll end up with a very slow version of the same thing that requires massive amounts of dwarf labour.
no, no, no, not for the goblins! geese! for training dwarves.Has anyone tried using a rail shotgun with minecarts full of coins?
whatever for? at best, you'll end up with a very slow version of the same thing that requires massive amounts of dwarf labour.
Or faster goblins since you've just given them a mass of Armor User training! :P
someone's child decided to play in the training area and promptly became attached to at least half of the clothes worn before they were tossed into the volcano.Was it the Child or the Clothes that was tossed into the Volcano?
I have noticed that it does cause people to be attached to their current clothing, someone's child decided to play in the training area and promptly became attached to at least half of the clothes worn before they were tossed into the volcano.Also, has the question been answered as to whether clothing will wear once it's been named? This could seriously affect the viability of creating adamantine cloaks. I'd personally use the Coinstar room to bond my soldiers with masterwork adamantine robes and cloaks for added coverage of otherwise unarmored body areas if I knew it wouldn't wear out in a few years.
Also, has the question been answered as to whether clothing will wear once it's been named? This could seriously affect the viability of creating adamantine cloaks. I'd personally use the Coinstar room to bond my soldiers with masterwork adamantine robes and cloaks for added coverage of otherwise unarmored body areas if I knew it wouldn't wear out in a few years.
things get named by killing enemies, then building a coinstar that uses adamantine cloaks instead of coins and zombies instead of dwarves, add line of sight to a trapped necromancer.Also, has the question been answered as to whether clothing will wear once it's been named? This could seriously affect the viability of creating adamantine cloaks. I'd personally use the Coinstar room to bond my soldiers with masterwork adamantine robes and cloaks for added coverage of otherwise unarmored body areas if I knew it wouldn't wear out in a few years.
These are two seperate things. Dwarves can get attached to ordinary clothes or weapons, which can be quite annoying, if your best speardwarf gets attached to a training spear and only uses it in battle.
Naming of equipment on the other hand is quite uncommon.
When a dwarf names a piece of equipment, that equipment basically becomes a semi artifact and that's when it stops wearing out.
So making candy clothes is still not viable, as they still degrade even is dwarves get attached to them.
geese! for training dwarves.I have absolutely no idea where you're going with this, but I like it!
Just for the sake of clarity (and to stop further trolling) what I meant was making a rail shotgun fire coins at dwarves for toughening them up, since previous comments mentioned danger when dropping them, so if the vertical approach (dropping) fails why not try the horizontal (shooting) approach?geese! for training dwarves.I have absolutely no idea where you're going with this, but I like it!
Ok so I just read the wiki on this, and don't want to wade through all fifteen pages of this thread, but I have a question:
is there a reason it's only 1x2 room?
is it worth creating a larger room in a hallway for training anyone who walks through?
hmmm... i dunno, adamantine is so light you may not be able to use adamantine clothing to kill stuff in the item drop room.
of course, the only way to know for sure is to test it.
Thanks Lich180
umn... how do I unstack/split stacks of coins?
Will coins/seeds go through a horizontal grate? If so you could put a grate above the room designated as dump point for your training fodder. Then a grate below that the trainee stands on. Then on the level below setup a stockpile that loads into a cart. Create a route to haul fodder and dump onto the top level grate.
When Danger Rooming my soldiers they tend to name their weapons and equipment after a while even if they haven't killed anything yet. From my experience they don't name things based on the amount of kills, but on the number of times they use the equipment. I don't remember them getting attached to anything other than weapons or shields though. Research must be done.They name armour too, it just takes longer.
Now I just need to figure out how to safely melt the fat off their bodies.
Can minecarts be filled by dropping items from a floor above? Cause that might make it possible to automate the process using levers and floor hatches.I was wondering this too.
You can't build a floor hatch and a bridge on the same tile, so the Coinstar method as is won't work with floor hatches for item removal.
With fat removal, don't minecarts generate magma mist if they skip across the surface of magma? Could this be used to generate a magma mist machine?
Can minecarts be filled by dropping items from a floor above? Cause that might make it possible to automate the process using levers and floor hatches.I'm pretty sure it was already mentioned in this thread and others that you can't drop items into a cart. Haven't tested carts myself, but that's what they say.
This is awesome, and spares some infuriating micromanaging required to train armor user in danger rooms- weapons and shield level up way too fast there, blocking hits that would level up armor. Yes, I know it could be done with a shieldless weaponless uniform, but it would increase the risk of dwarves not properly equipping their final uniform.