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Dwarf Fortress => DF Bug Reports => Topic started by: Empty on April 01, 2010, 10:12:18 pm

Title: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Empty on April 01, 2010, 10:12:18 pm
So my miner was being an idiot and dropped a 1 tile floor near my meeting place.
Breaking some bones of three dwarves.

So I designate a Hospital zone over some beds. Place some bags and a table on it. Place food, drink and a water source for cleaning. (Beats me why they just couldn't use alcohol for cleaning :P)

Health related supplies are hauled to the bags and the wounded are hauled to the beds.

I appoint my weaponsmith to all the health related jobs. Though the least wounded dwarf with only three broken body parts (red) instantly get's out of bed and continues working. Which I find a bit odd but okay.

So the unskilled doc starts to examine both remaining dwarves and eventually sutures the three remaining wounds of one and starts surgery on the last dwarf.
Here it get's weird. He keeps at it for almost near a month when suddenly the wounded dwarf gets up walks to the booze stockpile drink and faints. He get's no surgery skillgain whatsoever
He get's dragged back to the bed he was in by some friendly little helpers and now the doctor is trying to perform surgery on him again. Dwarf dies of infection and the doc still has no surgery skillgain.

I find this very weird. Because he has surtured and set bones before which didn't take as long as the unfinished surgery was taking. And he has dabbling skill in both now.


Edit:
The doc dressed a wound just now which he hadn't done before and also got dabbling in it. Maybe there's something wrong with the surgery skill?

Edit2:
Same thing happened with the last dwarf. He was surtured and bandaged and the dog was trying to put him in the new traction I put in the hospital. But that never happened and suddenly after someone else gave the wounded something to drink he got up took some meat from the pantry. Ate it at a chair and table. And returned to his sick bed on his own. Where he is now resting again.

And the doc is trying to put him in traction again.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Karlito on April 02, 2010, 01:18:45 am
I've got some weirdness as well on the traction job. The doctor dwarves just seem to stand over to patient before eventually getting thirsty and wandering off, rather than actually taking the wounded dwarf to the traction table.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Empty on April 02, 2010, 06:07:35 pm
I've got some weirdness as well on the traction job. The doctor dwarves just seem to stand over to patient before eventually getting thirsty and wandering off, rather than actually taking the wounded dwarf to the traction table.

It's the same for me. Also for surgery.

Either it's because surgery or traction skill takes too long at low skill or it's broken.
It would be nice if someone who has a dwarf with high skill in both could clarify about this.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Gara-nis on April 02, 2010, 06:24:45 pm
I've had this same bug.

In my fortress the surgeon just stands over the patient's bed for 3 weeks, then gets thirsty and wanders off. Repeat ad infinitum until the patient dies of infection.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Toybasher on April 03, 2010, 10:19:00 am
The exact same is happening for me too.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: bombcar on April 03, 2010, 11:47:25 am
I also had my patients die of hunger whilst everyone watched; the surgeons tried to do surgery but never succeeded.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Kire on April 03, 2010, 11:51:01 am
Same for me, I've had surgeons stand over the patients for a long time but never do anything other than Diagnose and Clean. They have all the supplies and equipment they need.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Mr Frog on April 03, 2010, 03:20:39 pm
I had a similar probem recently. My militia commander (hereafter referred to as "Urist McCripples") got wounded in a sparring accident, taken to the hospital, blah blah... My surgeon then proceeded to suture him. Repeatedly. To no effect. There was no spare thread lying around, though, so the surgery definitely proceeded as normal  (???), but McCripples kept on lying there with his leg cut open. Dwarven doctors are magical, it seems.

The funny part is, the guy who broke his leg the month after him was sutured up and got a cast just fine.  ???
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Bryan Derksen on April 03, 2010, 06:36:58 pm
I had two dwarfs in the hospital with cuts that needed bandaging. One on the foot, the other on the hand and the leg.

I didn't have any dwarfs skilled in wound-dressing, so I just told my surgeon to go nuts and take his best shot at it. Eventually I came back to find that the leg wound has been sutured and bandaged, but the hand and foot wounds still needed bandaging. It'd been rather a while at this point so I enabled wound-dressing on a couple of animal caretakers as well, thinking perhaps the surgeon was just too busy with other stuff to get it all done.

For about a year or so I watched a steady stream of animal caretakers and the surgeon grabbing cloth, going over to the wounded dwarfs, standing over them until they got hungry or thirsty, and then leaving them unbandaged. Never did get bandages put on them, eventually the goblins came and put an end to all that fuss.

I may have seen similar lack-of-action on the surgery front, with an interesting detail. One of my militia captains slew a Forgotten Beast that was leaving horrible substances all over the place and must have stepped in it in the process, both of his feet were completely rotten. The surgeon came and stood over him for a while and didn't seem to be accomplishing anything, but when I looked at the patient's treatment history a blank entry had been added (ie, there was an entry that had the correct date and the name of the surgeon, but in the spot where the name of the treatment should be there was nothing).
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: BurnedToast on April 03, 2010, 07:11:34 pm
I've got a dabbling suturer immigrant (he's the best I've got) trying to suture a dwarf with a cut toe. He's doing the grab thread -> try to suture -> put thread back dance over and over.

I tried setting suturing on a few random dwarves and they all did the same thing. Interestingly enough I think one of them got dabbling skill from it, but the chief medical dwarf who's been trying to suture the wound for a year is still dabbling so I don't know if they are getting skillups or what.

Edit: he finally became a novice suturer, so he is getting skillups. Of course he's still not managed to fix the toe.

Edit2: I removed the bed the injured guy was on, and he hopped up and started training again even though his toe is still cut. Some more dwarves were injured by a troll and the medical dwarf seems to be handling them fine.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Folly on April 03, 2010, 11:27:57 pm
I had a dwarf smash open his finger and toe in combat. The chief medical dwarf has been performing surgery on him repeatedly for over a year now. No skill gains, and the wound has not healed at all.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: uran77 on April 04, 2010, 02:48:22 am
my dwarves aren't bring water to the patients
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Areyar on April 04, 2010, 01:53:52 pm
Got some dwarves that have broken finger nails as well, bit of busted skin on a finger.
Infected though. Hope they don't die of the infected fingernail.

really. The 'walking wounded' should be able to clean their scratches and/or lick their wounds themselves, without the expert opinion of a surgeondwarf. Should gain them skill in cleaning wounds as well.

One got suitured on his finger skin and lived, the other, outside the hospital (on a spot in the main hallway where emergency triage was held), got a single suiture, but before both fingers were done died of thirst.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Folly on April 04, 2010, 02:31:30 pm
A temporary workaround for the endless surgeries, you can just remove the bed of the afflicted patient and he should be forcibly discharged from the hospital.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: GenericOverusedName on April 04, 2010, 03:02:18 pm
It sounds like the bug may be with the injured dwarf, not in the surgeon.  Just my 2c.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Foxbyte on April 04, 2010, 05:21:24 pm
A temporary workaround for the endless surgeries, you can just remove the bed of the afflicted patient and he should be forcibly discharged from the hospital.

My injured dwarf just stood there until someone else helped guide them to another bed; at which time my doctor returned to continue the interrupted surgery. Maybe they need a kind of tool? I tried making some short swords [the only blade I can think of] but nothing happened.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Mr Frog on April 04, 2010, 06:46:12 pm
!!UPDATE!!
I checked on the guy who needed sutures, and while his leg still showed up as yellow on the u->wounds screen, his z->health screen revealed that the wound that Urist McSurgeon was so intently trying to fix had already healed a long time ago, even though he apparently still needed sutures. I checked his status and, sure enough, he was quick to heal. Maybe this is caused when the wound to be fixed has already healed enough to no longer merit surgery..?
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Foxbyte on April 04, 2010, 07:25:55 pm
!!UPDATE!!
I checked on the guy who needed sutures, and while his leg still showed up as yellow on the u->wounds screen, his z->health screen revealed that the wound that Urist McSurgeon was so intently trying to fix had already healed a long time ago, even though he apparently still needed sutures. I checked his status and, sure enough, he was quick to heal. Maybe this is caused when the wound to be fixed has already healed enough to no longer merit surgery..?

I actually think Surgery in specific is broken and won't advance, personally. Unless I need someone with actual skill at it. I had a no-skill dwarf attempt surgery on the same wounds for two years straight. No skill-ups for the doctor, no fixing-up on the patient.

Sutures though, that sounds like it makes sense. The health screen still thinking he has an outstanding order for sutures, but the wound healed on its own. Save and reloading didn't work, yeah?
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Mr Frog on April 05, 2010, 01:53:31 am
!!UPDATE!!
I checked on the guy who needed sutures, and while his leg still showed up as yellow on the u->wounds screen, his z->health screen revealed that the wound that Urist McSurgeon was so intently trying to fix had already healed a long time ago, even though he apparently still needed sutures. I checked his status and, sure enough, he was quick to heal. Maybe this is caused when the wound to be fixed has already healed enough to no longer merit surgery..?

I actually think Surgery in specific is broken and won't advance, personally. Unless I need someone with actual skill at it. I had a no-skill dwarf attempt surgery on the same wounds for two years straight. No skill-ups for the doctor, no fixing-up on the patient.

Sutures though, that sounds like it makes sense. The health screen still thinking he has an outstanding order for sutures, but the wound healed on its own. Save and reloading didn't work, yeah?
Saving and reloading doesn't help him, nor does it help the other guys waiting in the hospital. Some poor dwarf nearly got bisected by a goblin - Left arm and leg gone, internal injuries, the whole nine yards. He's not bleeding anymore and his mangled stumps have long since scarred over and healed, but he still apparently needs sutures, dressings, and cleaning. Another dude's been hospitalized for months because he essentially got a paper cut. Still waiting for sutures, even though he probably didn't need them in the first place.
I was going to build the bisected guy a gigantic engraved bedroom with adamantine everything to commemorate his miraculous survival, but since he can't get up or move or anything that'd be pretty mean.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Smitehappy on April 05, 2010, 02:13:22 am
Quick question. Are any of you guys providing chest in the like for storage a medical supplies(Crutches,splints,cloth, etc.)? It's just a guess but the wiki seems to hint at needing some sort of storage for medical supplies for a dwarf to actually be treated in a hospital.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Mr Frog on April 05, 2010, 02:24:45 am
Quick question. Are any of you guys providing chest in the like for storage a medical supplies(Crutches,splints,cloth, etc.)? It's just a guess but the wiki seems to hint at needing some sort of storage for medical supplies for a dwarf to actually be treated in a hospital.
No, they're treating them, all right (and treating them... and treating them... and treating them...), and the one dwarf that did get stitched up properly was stitched with whatever was lying around (which turned out to be adamantine strands :'() - I wasn't even aware until now that I was supposed to build a container! *Facefaults*
If my suspicions about the wound healing too early are correct, however, that would still greatly expediate the surgery, possibly preventing the wound from closing up and exploding my surgeon's mind. (I'm probably wrong, though. It's probably way more complicated than that.)
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: JohnLukeG on April 05, 2010, 04:06:06 am
I have everything you can equip a hospital with, and I lost four bruise victims to dehydration today.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Another on April 05, 2010, 09:56:12 am
How have you equipped the hospital with plaster powder? Does the hospital screen show that there is some inside?
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Folly on April 05, 2010, 10:12:07 am
I've been unable to get plaster and soap actually inside the zone, but everything else is available in the chests. It doesn't really help the doctor dwarves do anything faster.
To the guy with dehydrating dwarves, make sure you have buckets available and dwarves with the appropriate healthcare labors enabled.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Areyar on April 05, 2010, 10:24:29 am
Have thirsty dwarves as well.
Is more to do with idle dwarves ignoring their nursing duties than lack of buckets or water. I have a well inside my hospital filled with buckets (for now).

Another issue, that might be HC related: can't replace my manager/bookkeeper (who is in hospital with a broken fingernail and split thumb....for two years now :(. )

But thats more likely a positions issue. maybe need to unassign offices first or something.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Elvensoul on April 08, 2010, 07:41:19 am
My expert dresser tries to dress up dwarf since months. Urist McIdiotdoc graps stuff from the chests to dress up the dwarf. Seems to just stand around for a few days and then he runs off to the main storage rooms to drop the stuff to dress up. Then he goes back to the hospital zone and graps the next thread (?) to repeat the process ad finitum.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Jazhuis on April 08, 2010, 08:57:17 am
Not too long after embark, I had an accidental cave-in that seriously injured one of my miners. Since I didn't have a hospital set up yet, I quickly improvised one with a single bed: she was rescued and taken to the bed, Urist McHouse: Medical Dorf goes and looks her over and diagnoses her as having multiple cuts/broken bones/compound fractures/etc. And...that's it. No treatments designated or anything. They won't even clean her wounds. So now my miner is pretty much living in the 40d hell of permanent invalid with a set of 2010 injuries.

Unfortunately, firing my medical officer and hiring Urist McForeman didn't do any good, as apparently he's unwilling or afraid to actually rediagnose or set up a course of treatment on old patients. He seems happy to diagnose newer patients, though.

I wonder if it was caused by my initial lack of hospital supplies, as it was under construction when it happened, or maybe McHouse is just petulant. Sadly, there seems to be no way to force a rediagnosis on an injured patient, and I haven't found it in myself to have the patient euthanized, as I guess I'm hoping the first set of bugfixes will either fix things so I can get my patient some treatment, or else there'll be enough changes that I'll just start a new fort anyway.

Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Areyar on April 08, 2010, 10:08:50 am
Maybe a diagnosis can be induced by re-injuring the patient...?

there are several problems with that approach though:
-possibly only the new wounds will be diagnosed and treated
-how to get the patient to the appropriate spot for breakage?

I wish il doctore would behave more like House and just try various treatments. Instead of failing at suturing a healed wound, he should cut it open and re-diagnose, set the bone, then suture again etc.
Haven't seen any misdiagnosis or malsurgery yet though, just failure to act. very un-McHousian.
I'd love to see a dwarf lose his foot in surgery because she complained about the broken toenail. ;)
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Jazhuis on April 08, 2010, 02:56:54 pm
It might be nice if the Chief Medical Dwarf could have a manual option to force a rediagnosis, maybe as an option through the Health information screen. It's kind of like clearing out a queue in a workshop when someone gets hung up on something. Any changes in the meantime can be taken into consideration and healthcare tasks can be reset. That way, when Diagnostician McHouse gets lazy about things, Chief Medical Dwarf McCuddy can tell him to get in there and rediagnose the patient.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Elvensoul on April 08, 2010, 04:08:44 pm
Another of my slightly hurt dorf was not healed so I removed the bed to get him out of the hospital. His bruises that needed to be dressed up stayed and he never went back to the hospital. It seems that dorf wont be re-diagnosed or go back to hospital at all?!
Any experiences with that?
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Justyn on April 08, 2010, 09:28:59 pm
Another of my slightly hurt dorf was not healed so I removed the bed to get him out of the hospital. His bruises that needed to be dressed up stayed and he never went back to the hospital. It seems that dorf wont be re-diagnosed or go back to hospital at all?!
Any experiences with that?

None like that here. But I don't find this situation too unusual: minor bruises, lacerations, and abrasions only require the patient to stay put to prevent the doctor and hospital from being sued for malpractice. Without the threat of an immanent lawsuit, I don't see why those kind of wounds would need anything but outpatient treatment.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Nimrod on April 09, 2010, 03:25:46 am
Surgery appears to be broken at the moment.
(placing dwarves in) traction doesnt work for me either.

In both cases a dwarf approached the injured and stood there until he got tired/hungry/thirsty/whatever.

I can also confirm, that (even heavily) injured dwarves tend to get up to do work/get food or dance around (mostly after some weeks/months in bed). After that they like to lie down in or on a cabinet, bin or some other container in my hospital.

Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Areyar on April 09, 2010, 09:18:37 am
surgery works fine for me, just need to remember to deactivate all other jobs for the surgeon as there is no real prioritizing; he could end up hauling 20 stones before attending to the injured party.

I currently have a problem with feeding/watering my guests, the messages are that there is no water source/food available, but they are. Perhaps the water is too far away, but the food is in a stockpile less than ten tiles away on the same Z-level.
It is in short supply, so possibly the food has already been claimed by other hungry dwarves, still I see no TSK
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Granite26 on April 09, 2010, 03:25:54 pm
I've got a dwarf who's been in surgery for 2 years.  The patient will occasionally walk off to get a drink, stopping the surgery.

Also, when I try to disallocate the hospital zone (to make it bigger), there's a crash.  This only happens if there is a dwarf in the hospital and when the game is unpaused (presumably making it related to associated dwarves cancelling tasks or someat)
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: MrBots on April 09, 2010, 04:29:15 pm
I found another aspect of the healthcare bug. I had a Miner that got injured when he decided to remove a down staircase from underneath himself. Upon receiving the following injuries:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

...he began to drag himself towards my little makeshift hospital. Part way there, I guess he decided it was more important to Stockpile something for me, and I got the follow message:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Would appear that there might be a job priority problem with some of the healthcare related jobs, since this isn't the first time I've seen an injured dwarf stop resting to get food, or to try to go to work. Also, not one single dwarf with the "Recovering Wounded" job enabled went to help this injured dwarf, leaving him to drag himself slowly towards the hospital. And there's also a previously injured dwarf who won't stay in bed or get any medical treatments finished, even with 2 doctors on staff.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: dresdor on April 10, 2010, 02:52:38 pm
Not too long after embark, I had an accidental cave-in that seriously injured one of my miners. Since I didn't have a hospital set up yet, I quickly improvised one with a single bed: she was rescued and taken to the bed, Urist McHouse: Medical Dorf goes and looks her over and diagnoses her as having multiple cuts/broken bones/compound fractures/etc. And...that's it. No treatments designated or anything. They won't even clean her wounds. So now my miner is pretty much living in the 40d hell of permanent invalid with a set of 2010 injuries.

Unfortunately, firing my medical officer and hiring Urist McForeman didn't do any good, as apparently he's unwilling or afraid to actually rediagnose or set up a course of treatment on old patients. He seems happy to diagnose newer patients, though.

I wonder if it was caused by my initial lack of hospital supplies, as it was under construction when it happened, or maybe McHouse is just petulant. Sadly, there seems to be no way to force a rediagnosis on an injured patient, and I haven't found it in myself to have the patient euthanized, as I guess I'm hoping the first set of bugfixes will either fix things so I can get my patient some treatment, or else there'll be enough changes that I'll just start a new fort anyway.



First +1 internet for the House references


Secondly I've noticed that before the fake surgeries, they do have treatments proscribed, but during the surgeries (once they start) the treatments proscribed disappear on the health screen (z-> health).  Just a weird note.  Maybe instead of clearing just the surgery need, performing surgery clears all medical needs but leaves the perform surgery job in the queue, so the medical dorf can't clear the surgery job.

Just a thought.  Not sure how to get around it.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Shrike on April 10, 2010, 06:06:32 pm
What would be nice is a 'rediagnose' thing, yes. But also a 'Forced bedrest' option for dwarves who can't make it to the food stockpiles without passing out again and again...and dying as a result. Essentially, allow the player to designate a 'recover wounded' order on a dwarf who is trying to be tough and kills himself  while trying to lift a barrel of booze to his parched, cracking lips.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Justyn on April 10, 2010, 06:13:54 pm
What would be nice is a 'rediagnose' thing, yes. But also a 'Forced bedrest' option for dwarves who can't make it to the food stockpiles without passing out again and again...and dying as a result. Essentially, allow the player to designate a 'recover wounded' order on a dwarf who is trying to be tough and kills himself  while trying to lift a barrel of booze to his parched, cracking lips.

This could just be solved by creating a food/drink stockpile next to the hospital. Or designating someone as a nurse, who has only the "give food/water to wounded" labor active.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Areyar on April 11, 2010, 06:27:21 am
I still think the bug comes from auto-healing dwarves that were diagnosed previously, because I have seen docs perform the list succesfully if uninterrupted.

clean>suture>bind>set>splint(>cast/crutch?)

Last time I did not have any water (it said, nor a wound that needed plaster or crutches), so the clean job just got delayed until my fixed up dwarf died of thirst*, but the other tasks did get done.
So it is not (not always anyhow) a case of a single impossible job holding up the whole process.

*(bringing food/water became impossible because of evil creatures nearby)


ed: you can assign stockpiles inside the hospital zone as well.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Jazhuis on April 11, 2010, 11:18:03 am
I still think the bug comes from auto-healing dwarves that were diagnosed previously, because I have seen docs perform the list succesfully if uninterrupted.

That was a theory I had as well. I had a dwarf dragged to the hospital, and before his treatments could get underway, something did go from injured to healed (a light bruise somewhere? I forget). He then proceeded to get up and start dragging himself around, broken limbs and all, treatments still on the schedule. I'm guessing that whatever healed was a subset of one of his treatments, and since it was on top of the queue but unnecessary, it never was performed or removed. Just a guess, though.

That's why I think a re-diagnose option would be nice as a nuclear option, just in case you have Wolverine for a dwarf and his mutant regeneration power keeps confusing all his doctors.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Kandryn on April 11, 2010, 11:46:46 am
Another problem with surgery:

I got my axedwarves to fight a megabeast which had a poisonous aura or such stuff.
They ended killing the beast with no loss but one of my dwarf apparently took the whole poisonous cloud. He's now fully rotten but still alive in my hospital, spouting miasma on the whole room.
After a long while he was finally diagnosed -> advanced rot on every body parts and what need to be done according to the health panel is surgery on every parts.

BUT, the surgeon enter my hospital, get close to the patient who is lying in bed for more than a year now and... "cancel surgery, patient not resting"

How can he rests? He's been on that bed for more than a year now, never moved from it.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Areyar on April 11, 2010, 05:20:35 pm
Come smell the unresting, rotting zombie *ughe!* patient! :)

Just had a remarkably succesful patient: miner caused cave-in
dragged a few tiles with broken leg, fainted.
Mc Shiney was delivered to the lab, at this point I designated a triage borrows, which includes the hospital, food stockpile and a dormitory. Hospital staff was added to the burrows.
It seems no alert level needs to be created for the purpose of movement restriction.
(I cancelled all secondary jobs on MacHouse and McForeman, the surgeon intern as well as all on McShiney. for luck and to rid myself of the dropoff inaccessable messages)

This time all went well, the wounds were diagnosed, cleaned, suitured, cleaned, set, splinted and wrapped.
The patient was out of bed and about, without crutches, at once.

Having a well inside the hospital (or at least closer than 30tiles) seems required for effective cleaning of wounds.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Bryan Derksen on April 12, 2010, 09:30:49 am
I can't believe I hadn't thought of making a hospital burrow for my doctors until you described the idea. This will save me so much annoyance with enabling/disabling my doctors' jobs whenever an emergency case comes along.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: TKTom on April 12, 2010, 01:47:47 pm
 Does anyone know a quick healing trick using the raws so that we can work around this for the time being:

 i.e 1) some guy gets stuck in the constant cycle of treatment.
2) We magic heal him, cos he should be better anyway by now
3) We delete his bed and he'll go about his business until he gets injured again
4) ???? Cross that bridge when we come to it.

 I tried to do the old deleting bodyparts trick but it just made the game crash.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Areyar on April 12, 2010, 08:24:34 pm
I noticed a problem with putting the guy in a burrow:

when the guy is outside hauling wood (and standing on a wood source-stockpile), and is holding a log, he will suddenly find his dropoff site inaccessable (eg outside burrow).
Instead of dropping the item and hurrying to the burrow, the dwarf will try repeatedly to find a site to drop it off.

Which is slightly odd, as dwarves have no problem dropping not only carried stuff, but also worn equipment/clothing when they are frustrated in different situations.
Not entirely sure if this resolves itself after a while (say when the dwarf gets sleepy), I was too impatient and unassigned him from the burrow after about five repeats.

edit: The drop-off problem also persists in the burrow. I have the chiefmed locked in the triage burrow, which includes a foodstockpile and well, only medical and cleaning are on for him. (mud, blood and golddust is covering my hospital: the corpse of a miner was hauled through earlier.)
Still he occasionally persists in standing in the foodstockpile complaining about dropoff sites.
Haulage jobs seem to be imposed on any nearby dwarf, regardless of task assignments sometimes.

edit: even doing all the above precautions sometimes the diagnosed patient is subsequently ignored by Doc. (and will go lie in a nearby dormitory, to die of thirst)
The burrow restricted and medical only jobs Doc will just stand there with no job or do the clean job if that is set.
It might be an interrupted job, that gets semi-cancelled or lack of one of the materials required that halts progress. I suspect the former, as wounds can be set and splinted etc without cleaning (it just risks infection)
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Thoranius on April 13, 2010, 10:31:37 pm
I noticed the same thing as well, had 4 dwarves with the equivalent of papercuts, and they all died of dehydration, but not before the 3 dwarves that had already put the patients in the bed got some sort of pathing bug up their rears and died of dehydration themselves, because they attempted to continue placing the patients in the beds. Even though they were already there.  :-\
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Granite26 on April 14, 2010, 10:09:36 pm
What would be nice is a 'rediagnose' thing, yes. But also a 'Forced bedrest' option for dwarves who can't make it to the food stockpiles without passing out again and again...and dying as a result. Essentially, allow the player to designate a 'recover wounded' order on a dwarf who is trying to be tough and kills himself  while trying to lift a barrel of booze to his parched, cracking lips.

Or just having dwarves that fall unconcious reenter the healthcare system.  If a person gets out of bed and walks ten feet before passing out, you can bet the hospital staff will put them back in their bed and rediagnose (I.E. look at the fun new bruises) the patient.  It'll also serve to put patients that thought they'd healed back into the mindset of 'lay there and get cut' rather than 'work to be done'
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Treason on April 15, 2010, 11:44:52 am
Had a horse wander into my fortress and kick one of the farmers while trying to get out.  Said farmer is now laying on the floor in extreme pain with a broken foot and constantly sending me the message of "Rest canceled" because of the same horse..which has long since left by now.

The stupid dwarf is filling up my announcement bag every second, won't die from dwarf made cave ins and hasn't gotten thirsty or hungry in months!
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Megaman on April 18, 2010, 06:38:00 am
Nurse! Get me a scalpel! NURSE! NURSE GET ME MY SCAPEL YOU ELF! GET ME MY SCALPEL OR I DESTROY YOUR SOUL!
There never was a nurse...
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Caesar on April 21, 2010, 11:16:09 am
I actually had my dwarf diagnose, clean, do surgery, suture and dress the wound of another dwarf.

On the other hand I noticed they NEVER finish whatever healthcare job (except for cleaning) they do on a dwarf if the wound healed up to at least dented already.

Another thing is that my only farmer is starving right now in my make-shift hospital, and I can't send her out to go eat by herself because I didn't have a bed and she decided to instead 'Rest' on the floor.

She has got a dented hand.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: Areyar on May 12, 2010, 03:01:45 pm
Annoying, my first injured dorf in a relatively new fort will not be surgeried, while everything seems to be in order.
The hospital is superb with all the possible luxuries (except for soap and gypsum), the patient has not been disturbed since being dumped in bed.
My Surgeon general/leader is competent in everything medical and has all other jobs disabled. The patient is slow to heal and flimsy, so has not yet scarred after a month of uninterrupted surgery.
It seems there is another issue holding up surgeries besides being debedding/interruption/healing .

As a sidepoint: has anyone seen any other dwarf with medical skills/jobs enabled perform a medical task?
I mean besides the surgeon general.
Title: Re: [0.31.01] Healthcare weirdness
Post by: numerobis on May 15, 2010, 10:46:11 pm
I've seen other dwarves perform treatment.  Or at least attempt it; my high master bandager guy doesn't appear to be able to bandage this one dwarf's lower body no matter how often he tries.