Post by: Meph on December 17, 2013, 05:00:06 pm
Warlock Tower
(http://i.imgur.com/qq5K4nd.jpg)
DevLog: Day1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4877444#msg4877444) - Day2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4879014#msg4879014) - Day 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4881542#msg4881542) - Day 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4886123#msg4886123) - Day 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4887328#msg4887328) - Day 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4890675#msg4890675) - Day 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4893844#msg4893844) - Day 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4897621#msg4897621) - Day 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4900456#msg4900456) - Day 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4903697#msg4903697) - Day 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4907189#msg4907189) - Day 12 (I took a break) (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4910570#msg4910570) - Day 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4914195#msg4914195) - Day 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4916769#msg4916769) - Day 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4919134#msg4919134) - Day 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4922786#msg4922786) - Day 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4925100#msg4925100) - Day 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4928370#msg4928370) - Day 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4931661#msg4931661) - Day 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4935991#msg4935991) - Day 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4940046#msg4940046) - Day 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4942486#msg4942486) - Day 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4945584#msg4945584) - Day 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4948614#msg4948614) - Day 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4952100#msg4952100) - Day 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134395.msg4955501#msg4955501) -
Download: Alpha V.01 - The first test run. (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8297) - (ONLY USE DEFAULT SETTINGS!)
Download: Alpha V.02 - The second test run. (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8308) - (ONLY USE DEFAULT SETTINGS!)
Download: Beta V.03 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8322)- Should be playable now. :) (Cheat reaction in the still for testers)
Download: Beta V.04 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8335) - Pylons and lots more stuff.
Download: Beta V.05 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8351) - Raids and Prisoners and the Overlord.
Download: Beta V.06 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8355) - Portals and better Balancing
Collected suggestions from this thread and reddit (which are not already in my todo list):
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- Pylons needed to control population. (Necron/Protoss style)
- Demon caste. Powerful, but tantrum/berserk possibility.
- More fort-wide spells that have a recharge time, like "once a month I instakill an invader"
- Magma Spawning (couldnt get magmasource to work relyably yet)
- Broodlords/Broodmothers for breeding new civ members.
- Evil Changlings: flilthlings, festerlings, puslings, bloodlings...
- Academy - Mental-attribute/skill training.
- Temporary Uber-Soldier transformation, which ends with the user dying/going berserk.
- Research (Theology College, Observatory, Anatomy Lab) System.
- Summon Balrog, Imps or Mephits.
- More Torture Chambers and "Information-Gathering". Might spawn "escaped prisoner".
- Expedition/Raid System. Kidnap villagers. Raiders Cabal or Warmongers.
- The Black Spiral - Magical Warlock Spawning that can go wrong. Might use prisoners for conversion.
- Homonculi
- Voodoo
- Ransom prisoners = Sell to caravans.
- Permanent upgrade: Frost/Fire/Blight Skeletons. All skellies get this, but you can only chose one.
- Good Ghosts: Take usage-hint away from interactions, use cannot-have-syn-class to make warlocks immune.
- Skill-learning from souls, like the dwarven library system. Devour soul = Get a skill.
- Attribute-boosts from souls. Devour soul = get more strength/agility/endurance.
- Skull Throne = Turn one Warlock into the boss, with extra spells.
- Alternative: Summon unique noble-caste, Sauron style. The evil Overlord.
- Wyrd Weapons = AoE explosion one-time weapons/ammo for traps/suicide bombers.
- Make drinks from souls that have noeat/nodrink/nosleep for a while.
- Elysian Shades = Shearable pet-shade made from souls, can be sheared for souls.
- Slave Pit/arena = Workshop using slave-tools for positive AoE buffs, like the Tavern.
- Shell life for skeletons: MAXAGE:10.
- Needs something for Fossils/Treasures/Relics
- Needs something for Blood/Tear/Bone of Armok
- Tentacle Monster
- Enchantet items/ Rune-Robes
- Extra spells from Staves/Auras for Warlock
- Will-o'the-wisp, Jack'o'lantern, Burning Skulls, classical horror stuff.
- Some sort of Religion. Lovecraft, anyone?
- Cross-race secret reactions - Just adding this so I dont forget it.
- Good adventurers that attack and siege. Credits:
Image by Nicholas Vallée, ico-art.fr (http://www.ico-art.fr/wordpress/).
Skeleton creature file by IndigoFenix.
Post by: Urist McTeellox on December 17, 2013, 05:35:30 pm
I've always liked the idea of having to construct pylons to maintain troops and/or unlock buildings/technologies. Pylons are constructed from the totems of intelligent races, so advancement requires slaughter and death. (I actually want to do a similar thing with the Orcish religious system.)
Huge nerf on certain warlock skills. Warlock cheesemakers and farmers don't seem thematic, but having slaves / minions with these skills seems just fine.
I love the idea of undead and demons as workforce and army. :)
Post by: somebears on December 17, 2013, 05:55:55 pm
some random Ideas:
- most warlocks do not do any work (mb noble with the ignore work thing).
- Nether portal: a building that breaks after a while where a Warlock can go and get something awesome (eg a spell) for a short while. Problem is, it summons hostile nether beasts
- they absolutely need slaves!
- Undead are somewhat easy to access if you have corpses
Deamons are expensive - some sort of benefit for writing books and displaying them on a book-stand or a shelf.
- I agree with teellox that beeing allied with the HFS is wrong. Enslaving them could be great.
Probably way too crazy:
Make Warlocks try to assassinate each other in an effort to be the most powerful warlock in the tower. some sort of violent master-apprentice thing. Powerful warlocks are difficult to kill
Post by: Teneb on December 17, 2013, 05:58:07 pm
As for the HFS, I know there are mods that add new creatures to the underworld that are not istantly attacked by the natives. Maybe AT_PEACE_WITH_WILDILIFE? Anyway, you'll still have the problem with the invasion wave that spawns when you breach the correct tube killing the player's FPS. I also agree that the HFS should be dangerous to everyone, even warlocks. "Playing with fire" seems to be their theme, so a way to backfire (the HFS invasion) would be nice.
Post by: kamikazi1231 on December 18, 2013, 12:17:11 am
Demons could also be a caste. They could be made expensive through summoning with live sacrifice. A reaction similar to sacrificing a life for armok could be ran that spawns a "Demon soul fragment." Then when you have say twenty soul fragments you could run a reaction that takes them and creates a "demon soul gem." The demon soul gem could be used in a reaction to "sacrifice" a warlock to summon a demon. It would actually be a transformation to join a guild similar to the high level tier 3 magic classes. Have to sacrifice many lives but you get a demon class warlock with very high stats and access to many spells.
This could let HFS still be hostile. I like the playing with fire idea of HFS. Only demons summoned through study and massive sacrifice would ally with the warlocks. While what pours out of the HFS is like the wildlife of HFS that is uncontrollable. It'd be letting the fire get out of control.
The bone thralls of wizard liches might be a good addition.
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 18, 2013, 02:50:53 am
I also have a system for slowly charging a spell over the course of about a season, which could be useful for restricting the use of uber-powerful spells.
Post by: mahrgell on December 18, 2013, 03:46:58 am
If the warlocks don't actually do work I'm not sure what we will do with them in their tower. Would it be caste based system like the guilds where some are called "lords" and others are called "skeletal worker"/"skeletal warrior" or something? It could be that members of those castes will do manual labor. When they reach a certain skill point they could change their sprite into a profession like dwarves do and have those sprites be skeletons or undead.I really like that idea. Limit their skillgrowth to something like 20% and if they reach lvl 6 at any skill they become a NoWork-Warlock.
So if we use a system which has 3 primary types:
- slaves: nonwarlock, pure workhorses, die faster then cutebolds, suck if they somehow get in combat, warlocks sacrifice them in batches for common everyday reactions
- apprentices: warlocks, can only do physical work, transform into lords once they reach lvl6 at any physical work skill, sacrificed for midtier reactions, useful as meleefighters, but still weaker then dwarves
- lords: warlocks, can only do magical work, core of the army and nobles, can learn spells, magical backbone of your army, while being weaker then apprentices to discourage weaponusage, sacrificed for the powerful rare reactions
This would require to skills split into a physical and a magical category. Magical would include all sacrifices, magical reactions, spells, research etc.
physical would be all real work and labor. mining, smithing, clothmaking, farming, crafting, weaponskills etc
I'm not sure, but i guess it is not possible to rename all the skills, when playing warlock? Because with the skills right now, that split would be a bit hard to do.
Post by: Findulidas on December 18, 2013, 06:50:14 am
Post by: Dohon on December 18, 2013, 09:29:32 am
The key concept with Warlocks IMO is about big risks and big rewards. Truly dangerous demons should require a big investment and even then, it's not guaranteed that you'll actually be able to control the demon. Imagine a warlock summoning a lord from Hell, but instead of being the master of the creature, the Infernal Lord possesses the warlock and then goes absolutely postal on your fort.
Just my two Urists. Looking forward to seeing cackling warlocks with mindless underlings, dominating the battlefield with scary spells while screeching demons soar overhead, butchering dwarfs like it's nothing. Yes, looking forward to it indeed.
[EVIL_CACKLE]
Post by: Meph on December 18, 2013, 01:09:46 pm
The opposed to life civ-members (skeletons) wont do labors, which is another thing to look at. But all in all I am quite happy with the result. Tombs, Towers and evil biomes are certainly allied with you.
Another funny thing: The opposed to life civ-members ignore my pets, but the normal undead attack them. Maybe I need special pets, which are undeadish as well for this race. :) Havent tested turning pets into not_living or opposed_to_life things yet.
Post by: Meph on December 18, 2013, 02:40:28 pm
Militia captians, unlimited, can lead up to 5 soldiers, but can only be skeletons. (the captian, I cant restrict the soldiers to skeletons-only, sadly)
A doctor.
The boss dude. Each time he goes from exped leader to mayor to baron to count to duke, he gets a new ability. The normal things like broker, bookkeeper, manager, sheriff, hammerer, and so on. Essentially you have one noble who is elected and gets new abilities the bigger your fort gets. At some point he will lead a military group of 13 acolytes.
Feedback?
Post by: moseythepirate on December 18, 2013, 03:18:56 pm
Idea for the nobles: Since Warlocks dont like to share power, there are only three kinds of nobles:
Militia captians, unlimited, can lead up to 5 soldiers, but can only be skeletons. (the captian, I cant restrict the soldiers to skeletons-only, sadly)
A doctor.
The boss dude. Each time he goes from exped leader to mayor to baron to count to duke, he gets a new ability. The normal things like broker, bookkeeper, manager, sheriff, hammerer, and so on. Essentially you have one noble who is elected and gets new abilities the bigger your fort gets. At some point he will lead a military group of 13 acolytes.
Feedback?
I like the ideas, though your ideas for the doctor are a little sparse. Militia Captain needs a different title, though. One more in keeping with the rustic aesthetic. Is there some way of having a special noble able to lead a squad of demons?
I'm not all that up to date with noble modding stuff...you can make the 'leveled up' noble class re-electable, right? If your hard-earned Dark Lord bites the dust to an unusually lucky Kobold, it would be nice to get another one with all the bells and whistles intact. Do you suppose the Boss Dude should be elected or appointed?
One potential problem is that he might just have too many hats. If he's
He should certainly be the executioner, though. It would fit in delightfully with the aesthetic.
Just tossing thoughts out there.
Post by: Meph on December 18, 2013, 03:28:12 pm
And one dude being fulltime noble that has to do everything is the basic idea. "Damn you to hell, I cant even do my books, because I have to imprison this rowdy tantruming werewolf, execute the useless worker who dropped my drink, and scare away this pesky goblin ambush. Cant I have one quite minute?"
Does anyone know if the military weapon conflicts with executioner weapon? I can do any weapon, but only one. So if the "hammerer" uses a hammer, and the military commander use an axe, and they are both the same person, will he punish people with an axe, or will he go and get a hammer?
Post by: Repseki on December 18, 2013, 04:31:50 pm
If you have the Hammerer in a squad, with their own weapon, I think they still need a different Hammer to use that isn't assigned.
I'm not sure if having both the Sheriff and Hammerer duties assigned to the same dwarf causes issues though.
Post by: Uloldodok on December 18, 2013, 05:58:53 pm
For example;
You start with 4 warlocks on embark, "acolytes" if you will. These 4 bug about until they reach their next "level" in a lack of better words, at which point they become eligible to choose to either fuse their body with magic, or with a demon.
Fusing with Magic would give your warlock the ability to spawn workers for the fort and perform the tasks of the nobles and access to the "Magic" caste system. Gathering more Acolytes and whatnot - these guys have a social side to them.
Fusing with a Demon on the other hand would give your warlock the ability to regenerate broken limbs and recover from wounds over time instead of any spells, and it will give him a significant bonus to his base stats and access to the Demon caste system. The drawback could be that being fused with a Demon has a chance to backfire and have the warlock go berserk after making a kill and attacking allies for a short while or something similar, meaning that having the Warlock-Demon engage in combat is always risky. These guys do not have a good social side.
Terrible idea?
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 19, 2013, 05:03:20 am
Also, have you considered the possibility of easy magma spawning? Maybe it doesn't fit the aesthetic but nothing rounds out an evil fortress like copious lava pits in my opinion.
Post by: fasquardon on December 19, 2013, 07:47:44 am
For making the Warlock nobles have their own sprite, what you could do is make the Warlocks an intelligent pet that was eligible to become a noble. The intelligent controllable units would then be the Warlock's thralls. The warlocks could also be an egg laying animal (similar to golden geese). They could lay "soul shards" that would be used to create high level buildings, magic items, summon thralls and consecrate a new warlock (for example, a reaction consuming 10 soul shards would target an intelligent enemy in a cage to induct the human, dwarf or what have you into a practicing warlock). Like making armoured pets, you could also have different warlock "levels", each with their own spells. This is basically how I was planning on doing the demon kings in the goblin plugin I have slowly been working my way towards making.
fasquardon
Post by: shadowclasper on December 20, 2013, 04:41:23 am
Another thing they should be able to do is capture ghosts who spawn due to improper burials.
edit: also on the HFS front.
Demons are honor bound to destroy and obliterate any 'mortals' they run into. Just because warlocks don't age doesn't mean they're immortal like demons are.
They can bargain with demons, but if a demon breaks free from it's conditions it becomes hostile.
Example: you pay souls to summon a demon, and use souls to forge things to bind the demon to a specific area.
The demon will preform tasks in that area. They might be used for crafting for example. Or as guards, whatever. The point is that as long as they remain within the binding area, they're good.
If the binding area is disturbed by something, say by a building destroyer knocking over one of the binding constructions, the the demon becomes free and hostile.
Special items can be used to turn demons into tamed 'pets' war and hunting animals basically. They'd be some kind of clothing that could in theory be removed. If the demon survives the removal, they'd become hostile.
Basically. The idea is that demon summoning should have AMAZING benefits, but be risky as fucking hell. One wrong move, and you might as well have opened the HFS.
It also explains why opening the HFS would be bad news for Warlocks, and why you wouldn't just start off aligned to them.
Post by: ThaMuzz on December 20, 2013, 09:19:09 am
Similarly, I'd suggest that Warlocks would get different uses out of changlings than dwarfs do. In addition to familiars, they would be able to create things like plaugelings instead of magmalings. A Plaugelings would spread syndrome materials on command, allowing the fortress to protect itself with toxic barriers.
Other changling derived creatures (flilthlings, festerlings, puslings) could be milked for useful reagents for Warlock Alchemy.
Post by: LMeire on December 20, 2013, 03:11:36 pm
On that note, some specific ideas of mine:
Make their magical ability scale with their mental attributes, (If that's not done already.) just like physical combat prowess scales with physical attributes.
A "Scribe's Workshop", consumes various combinations of resources and creates a "documentation tools" item, to be used in research buildings. I'm thinking combinations like "paper, feather and ink", "slab and a chisel", etc. Another possible use would be the making of these materials themselves, out of more arcane raw materials. Like converting a barrel of blood into "crimson ink", making a few ink-pens out of a single bone and harvesting vermin remains to stretch into paper.
Some kind of mental-skills trainer building like an academy or something, I know the dwarves already have something similar in the announcement podium. But warlocks don't care about safety or morality; so maybe in addition to the standard small boost reaction, give them a much cheaper "hands-on experience" reaction with a much larger pay-off that might accidentally kill the student or summon something nasty. (Maybe 10% chance of something bad, 1% chance of something very bad?)
An "Observatory" building, used to map out "star-chart" items for use elsewhere. Reactions should take a long time to complete and require documentation supplies. If possible, It should probably be an outside-only building since it's kinda hard to watch the stars when there's a ceiling in the way. Low chance of randomly learning a spell in the process.
A "Void Gate" building, powered by stable warpstone that consumes star-charts and generates a set number of random objects, depending on the number and quality of star-charts used. Could also be used to summon otherworldly monsters, either friendly or hostile. Moderate chance of learning a spell in the process.
Access to the dwarven biology lab, with added reactions to consume a corpse and documentation tools to produce an "anatomy map". Low chance of learning a spell in the process.
An "Augmentation Lab", powered by stable warpstone that consumes anatomy maps to either fuse multiple corpses together into undead multi-limbed "abomination" pets or to improve existing undead pets into abominations. Moderate chance of learning a new spell in the process.
A "Theology College", where warlocks go to ponder the nature of divine and demonic beings, and how to better harvest such natures for themselves. Consumes featherwood or glumprong logs and documentation tools, 50% of producing a "Theory of the Divine" or a "Theory of the Damned" respectively. Low chance of learning a new spell in the process.
An "Ascension Gate", powered by either candy, twice as much orichalcum, or three times as much mithril that consumes Divine Theories to transform the one performing the reaction into a super-being capable of several months' worth of fighting ultra-powerful enemies before their bodies are ripped apart from the strain. 50% of working normally, 40% of doing nothing, 10% of the reactor instead getting cursed for their blasphemies. (Were-curse or vampirism would be funny, a plague would do nicely too.) High chance of learning a new spell in the process.
An "Eerie Gate" powered by either candy, twice as much orichalcum, or three times as much mithril that consumes Damned Theories and generates a random number of randomly dispositioned demons. Could do either nothing, summon a dozen pet imps, one very angry balor, or even a mixture of the two with a demonic-civil war on your hands. 50% of killing the reactor, regardless of outcome. High chance of learning a new spell in the process.
Post by: Meph on December 22, 2013, 12:38:10 am
Please excuse if I dont go into detail on every reply, but I like most of the things I read. I can already see great libraries, a out-side-only workshops (thats possible with dfhack, yay), creep-spread that gives buffs/nerfs, and Aether Summoning Workshops of different tiers. Warlocks probably power a lot of things with bones or souls from killed enemies.
Post by: udsuna on December 22, 2013, 04:04:39 am
Provide them "pets" of a sort similar to the animated weapons the dorfs get to play with. They don't mine, their magically animated pickaxes do that. Same with woodcutters. So on and so forth.
No migrants at all.
These two things greatly change the nature of the game- but that just makes it more FUN!- as it stands, the alternate embark species are too similar to dwarves to really make it feel like a different game.
Later on (after achieving various goals) they can have their trade reactions to recruit additional warlocks (research unlocks which require sacrificing souls and what have you to upgrade your tower's magical status.
For example, you start by building a Locus- a building that spawns Lesser Essence for producing low end tools and undead. All it requires is stone and a warlock, of course. I'd almost suggest making it a "multipart" building. Where there's four corners that are meant to be assembled together in order to "look right"- so it can be a larger building that is impressive looking, while being usable by more than one warlock at a time.
Using the essence, and more typical workshops, you can create refined materials for higher end buildings.
Say, building a Grand Library in order to unlock the research material.
Undead Chrysalis for invasion mechanics and spawning undead pets for your fort (anywhere from 5 to 20 used per reaction- different difficulties and possible rewards based upon what you invade- increasingly low returns for higher level invasions, but much higher possible supplies).
Slave Pits from captured slave "items".
The Transmogrifycation Chamber- a building that uses slaves, undead, and essence to produce various abominations that may or may not be used to make new buildings.
Torture chambers that grant you access to race-specific invasion buildings that offer better chances and rewards (but require a large number of captives to build).
But for a goodly couple years, they should be limited solely to their embark units. You'd basically end up controlling them by assigning them as leaders of military units, and most of the minions as following pets.
Slave collection would be the bulk of their long term industry. "Slave driver" as a skill that most of their workshops exploit. Perhaps break it up by species. Human slaving, Dwarf slaving, Goblin Slaving and so on.
Undead minions would mostly exist to do hauling labors and kill invaders. Start with basic corpses and have an increasing upgrade of horrors to unleash.
See if it's not possible to get different corpses based on mode of death. Would be interesting to see a drowned corpse or a charred corpse to turn into different breeds of zombie.
I can see industries as follows:
1- Locus- Centerpoint of warlock life. Spawns Lesser Essence. Which is used in almost every lower reaction Warlocks perform.
2- Crafting Building- used for low end stone and wood reactions (plus needs essence). Warlocks can have a distinctly lacking number of reactions- because later they'll have the good stuff from slaves. Produces "glamored" items.
3- Enchanting Room- uses various ranks of essence to generate various grade magic items and/or pets.
4- Echo Chamber- low end magical training room. Eats essence, produces the vast majority of early magical advancement.
5- The War Room- which spawns items for various degrees of raiding (a-la the expedition outfitter) and its sister building(s). Options such as "Invade (race) outlands"- low risk, low reward, offers very good chance of coming back with 'meat' supplies like pets and children or peasants of a race. "Invade (race) hamlet" for more moderate risk-reward. Town. City. Fortress. Capital.
6- And the necromancy chamber. Researching the dark arts and spawning off lesser undead. Except to feed it lots of corpses.
Then you get medium tier stuff.
1- Heartstone. THIS lets you start attempting to recruit "potentials". Possible evil wizards to join your army. Also more commonly used for Greater Essence (cornerstone of higher end production). Again with the 'four corner' idea.
2- The Black Spiral (hehe, WoD reference, feel free to change the name)- a BIG building which requires bones, corpses, essence, and a handful of crysalis- the potentials will be fed into this reaction. If all goes well, a new Warlock shall be added to the fold. Far more likely, you either get a Crazed Wizard that you must kill. Or a corpse. Or an Abomination Soul (for high end crafting).
3- Torture Rack- either high end T1, or low T2- this baby is for interrogating prisoners. Reactions include-
A: Interrogate. Has a number of results- including civilization notes, getting the prisoner back with no results, getting a dead prisoner (with or without notes), getting a prisoner revolt- and a fight on your hands, have guards nearby- or getting a useless prisoner and notes.
B: Enslave. Favored reaction for soldier enemies. Spawns you a slave to do your dirty work. Generally not the best way to go, but they can always be butchered in the future if you need the corpse for another project. Waste not, want not. Slave is based upon type of slave used, and a lot of luck.
C: Convert. A specific and rare reaction that ONLY occurs with nobles. Gives your warlocks dastardly things to do like forcing beautiful princesses to marry them. Always a classic.
4- (Race) War rooms. As said on the tin. Lower odds of minion loss. Somewhat better item rewards. Also unlocks the possibility of finding "potentials" during an invasion, and bringing them home with you (see the Spiral and its possibilities)
5- (Race) Slave (Workshop)s- dwarven smithies. Kobold crafters. Human farming. List goes on and on.
6- Start of the magic system "for realsies". Animated tools (lesser animating using Essence- the greater kind... greater animating using souls). Soul harvesting from the necromancer chain. Possibly acquiring the weaker demon familiars (imps and homonculi) who ever so kindly cast lesser spells and offer temp stat boosts to their allies.
High Tier materials
1- Summoner's Chamber- THIS is proof that your wizard tower is now respected amongst the evil community. A big room, this time only one. Used for demon magic(s). Offering souls as reactions. Recruiting warlocks without the possible risks- though a higher price.
2- Fully upgraded torture mechanic- requiring a huge number of sacrificed captives to potentially acquire, you get the "Detailed Notes" on a given target (and each civ has those aforementioned notes)... letting you take those notes and an item from the prior chamber and generate an even superior set of invasion options.
Adds the "target trade route" option. Which guarantees lots of material loot and better-than-average captives.
If you have extra notes of a specific target around, you can initiate the "decisive blow" command. A high power invasion which expends dozens of minions and guarantees the triggering of an invasion- potentially multiple invasions simultaneously- but results in huge amounts of loot.
3- Fully unlocked magic systems. Necromancy. Demon Summoning. Infusions to create demonic hybrids.
Slaves-
You can acquire different types of prisoners from different locations, but there's many potential types. These are *items* to be consumed in other reactions. Each race has their own equivalents.
1- Child- most common in the outland raiding, progressively less likely as you get more urban. Safest, but least valuable, reaction. Used to spawn ankle-biter zombies and skeletons. Also possibly butcher for small amounts of meat and bone.
2- Peasant- found everywhere, though mostly human and dwarf. Good for base tier undead, butchury, and etc.
3- Sniveling peasant- found amongst kobolds and goblins and some humans and dwarves. THESE slaves are less likely to fight back when undergoing reactions where they don't die. They also mostly suck and are rather a waste to keep around for long.
4- Warriors- soldiers of varying descriptions- found amongst every race. Great potential rewards in terms of somewhat superior undead and minions. High risk of fighting back when used to generate servants, but best reward in terms of minion strength on success.
5- Tradesmen- necessary to produce most of the slave workshops.
6- Mystics- The wizards and shaman of enemy races. Dangerous in any reaction. Easily sold to demons for high value rewards. IF you convert them, they become warlocks.
7- Traitor- A rare find. Automatically gives you "Notes" and "Useless Traitor" when interrogated. THEN can be used in other reactions- either feed it in as a Potential or a Servant, depending upon luck from the reaction (as they're traitors, their interrogation is a lot less painful than normal, so they aren't left broken afterward. ALSO a favored sacrifice to the demons. Seriously. Traitors are like Cocaine to them.
8- Powerful Warrior- Different classes based on race, but all in all, the best you can get for bolstering your armies. Make the best slaves (and thus some of the best undeadification picks). Makes the best sacrifices. AND makes the best interrogations. Also, in all cases, the best odds of prison breaks.
9- Royalty. ONLY possible from a 'decisive blow'. Ranging from mayors to kings. Includes fun things like trying to convert a princess into a Dark Queen, or a prince into a Black Knight. 'Ransom' reactions.
10- "Useless prisoner"- a possible result from the Interrogation reaction(s). These prisoners can't be used to interrogate any longer. Also- if used in other reactions, they produce inferior results (identical to the "sniveling peasant"- which makes them perfect for that reaction. Best used as food. Also a fairly likely result from raiding.
Post by: somebears on December 22, 2013, 05:16:27 am
Provide them "pets" of a sort similar to the animated weapons the dorfs get to play with. They don't mine, their magically animated pickaxes do that. Same with woodcutters. So on and so forth.
I think that would rather be a wizard civ. A warlock would rather slaughter some petty villagers and force them to work in his mines until they are completely rotten and fall apart. If they dont fall apart they are slaves. forever.
No migrants at all.I think there should be migrants. Not warlocks of course, but a few undead minions, some restless souls and maybe one apprentice.
See if it's not possible to get different corpses based on mode of death. Would be interesting to see a drowned corpse or a charred corpse to turn into different breeds of zombie.This has to be the greatest Idea ever! I can already see my army of burning undead setting the surface ablaze. It would make towers have a unique flavor(like frost, poison or fire) that sticks (if you have a lot of fire zombies it is likely that invaders are killed by fire)
Also this would allow us to do stuff other than 'select x in building y'
About slaves: I think they should not do heavy work like mining. They could be used to make food(who wants to eat a cake made by a rotting corpse anyway?), tend the crops and animals. (make undead really bad at those jobs)
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 22, 2013, 06:21:02 am
So let's see... healer ghosts, ghosts that suck the breath out of enemies, slimers that cover everything in toxic goo (which warlocks are immune to)... I wonder if making a copy of the material emission interaction that can't target warlocks would let you make ghosts that only use material emissions on enemies... like firebreathing or web shooting ghosts...
Actually, if you just have warlocks learning spells during their life and those spells don't have a USAGE_HINT, they should keep on using them in death. You don't need USAGE_HINT:ATTACK when warlocks will just attack anything that isn't a warlock anyway. Something to keep in mind...
Post by: udsuna on December 22, 2013, 07:36:10 am
I think that would rather be a wizard civ. A warlock would rather slaughter some petty villagers and force them to work in his mines until they are completely rotten and fall apart. If they dont fall apart they are slaves. forever.
Well. Presumably warlocks started out learning SOME magic before going all psychotic.
I think there should be migrants. Not warlocks of course, but a few undead minions, some restless souls and maybe one apprentice.
Hmm. Okay, I can see this working.
This has to be the greatest Idea ever! I can already see my army of burning undead setting the surface ablaze. It would make towers have a unique flavor(like frost, poison or fire) that sticks (if you have a lot of fire zombies it is likely that invaders are killed by fire)
I'm planning on a swarm of drowned dead. Just one of my preferred death trap options.
About slaves: I think they should not do heavy work like mining. They could be used to make food(who wants to eat a cake made by a rotting corpse anyway?), tend the crops and animals. (make undead really bad at those jobs)
There's a thought. I rather like my "magic tools" theory, however. It'd make the construction aspects of a warlock fort a very different animal from the usual. Not that I think warlocks should be "diggers" at all. Tower building, that's where it's at.
Post by: AshFire on December 22, 2013, 07:36:51 am
You start with a few Acolytes, younger Warlocks that just begun to learn dark paths and decided to raise the Tower of their own.
Acolytes are suited only for war. They can kill and create undeads, that is all. Each time you kill a being you recieve a soul gem, which power depends on the strength of this soul's deceased owner. So by murdering some rabbits and combining their weakest soul gems with some bones you rise your first skeletons. They are your unqualified workers, mining and farming around, building simple structures and being totally brainless.
Now back to Warlocks. To be able to create really powerful items, cast cool magic and raise mighty creatures you need to assign your Warlocks to what-used-to-be Noble positions. But now they are different: one Noble unlocks one profession and one title only for one Warlock making him ArchWarlock - until his death. Thus your Tower will look like a board of very narrow and powerful specialists united by their magic researches and their apprenticies, some king of magical univercity.
Possible examples of ArchWarlocks: DemonMaster (trades soul gems for temporary HFS allies), DeathMaster (by combining soul gems, prescious metals and valuable gems at special workshops can raise more powerful creaters than skeletons, like bone dragons from megabeast's soul and HUGE number of bones), PoisonMaster (potions), TowerMaster (architect of dooms day devices), WaveMaster (crafts magical cloth for robes from souls and whatever) and so on.
Loosing a skeleton is no problem, loosing an Acolyte is OK, but the death of ArchWarlock is a tragedy since he was your only specialist in his field. But there is always a couple of power-hungry Acolytes waiting for someone to die so they can take his place... Or may be one of your ArchWarlocks will run into human siege by pure accident when a more talanted candidate for his position appears...
Warlocks have lowered birth rate and a few migration waves. I don't really think they need slaves or conversion - who can rely on meatbags when you can totally trust your cute zombie? They are not cobolds to loose their time on such things. And only Warlock by birth can be true magician, they are a race after all.
But why should you build a Tower? That's simple. Your ArchWarlocks are gifted, but capricious. They demand something all the time (although the bad mood recieved for unfulfilled wish is lowered) and envy each other since they are all equal in status. And never let an Acolyte have a better room than any of your Tower's rulers!
So playing Warlocks is about killing things (your economy can never have enough bones and souls and there are a lot of sieges because everyone hates you), nurcing your powerful specialists (each of them is unique) and trying to have them all happy.
Post by: AshFire on December 22, 2013, 08:08:53 am
For example, by fullfilling job "Create Skeleton Farmer" at some kind of boneyard workshop your Warlock raises Skeleton Farmer from 1 soul gem and 10 bones. He can only farm and will do so until he is dead, there is no way to stop him or change his task. He even can't improve his skill: his abilities are determined at the moment of his creation by the level of his master-Warlock.
So the Warlock with "Farming" skill can't actually farm, but he can create farming skeletons (that can farm but can't upgrade their skill) and gain experience in this profession by recearching and writing books (and after that he can make better skeleton farmers).
You can butcher this Skeleton (which is your pet in terms of the game) at any time and have some resouces back.
So you will nead to regulate the number of your Skeletons for any task (like woodcutting, mining and farming) carefully and upgrade your workers when they are out of date when your Warlocks improve their skills.
Post by: Meph on December 22, 2013, 12:14:03 pm
Ghosts will also be a danger with the normal ghost stuff like scaring people to death and severing limbs, dont forget that. ;)
@Many of the above suggestions: Sadly a lot of the things are impossible to do with modding, like corpses that get abilities depending on how they died, or the tools that do labors... Only civ members can do labor. And all civ members are a single creature, and use a single graphic spritesheet. They will all look at least similar.
Captured invaders can not be used in reactions either... but killing them and using their corpses should be fine.
Post by: mahrgell on December 22, 2013, 12:36:19 pm
Post by: Meph on December 22, 2013, 01:00:07 pm
Post by: mahrgell on December 22, 2013, 01:29:52 pm
And i'm not sure how diplomatic relations are done during fortressmode. Like how to anger a civilization enough so they declare war on yours?(besides elves) Would it be somehow possible to trigger that in an unseen way at the start of a warlock embark? (like spawn 5 unseen caravans/ambushes/sieges and kill them immediately).
Post by: udsuna on December 22, 2013, 02:17:09 pm
Many of the above suggestions: Sadly a lot of the things are impossible to do with modding, like corpses that get abilities depending on how they died, or the tools that do labors... Only civ members can do labor.
Well. Damn. But there are some ways around that. Sort of around it. You can still do the captives thing. And themed zombies. And slaves.
Captured invaders can not be used in reactions either... but killing them and using their corpses should be fine.
I was meaning taking captives when doing the invading. Name items "captive (insert class here)" and use them as tools for reactions.
You could then use them as anything from raw material for producing certain slaving workshops. Make a set of pets that are "enslaved (creature)".
And of course all the reactions for torture and what have you that I listed.
Same premise with an Undead Chrysalis. A nice, shiny item that lets you "store" undead minions for transportation and production of hybrid monsters. Nothing quite like taking a half dozen of the things and using them to produce a single horrific abomination.
... What can I say? I really loved the expedition/raiding concept. I don't like the mechanics nearly so much, but the *concept* is awesome.
Post by: Meph on December 22, 2013, 02:50:59 pm
I currently use arabic as language for them. I had to think of the evil wizard dude, Jafar, of Aladin. ^^ The names work quite well.
Udsuna: I get that you like the system. ;) But dwarves use it for expeditions and mercenary raids, Orcs use it, Kobolds kinda use it with their thievery, and I would guess Goblins might make use of it as well in some way or another. After all they are the original babysnatchers. I would like to avoid simply repackaging the same concepts to this race.
I also dont see Warlocks as a race that siege and attack other countries. A crazy wizard in a tower might abduct a kid or terrorize a little village in the woods, but I cant see them going for full on frontal war with a big army. I think as long as they can live in their tower, surrounded by undeads, doing their evil schemes without being interrupted all the time, the Warlocks will be quite happy. :)
Post by: somebears on December 22, 2013, 07:26:58 pm
@Many of the above suggestions: Sadly a lot of the things are impossible to do with modding, like corpses that get abilities depending on how they died, or the tools that do labors... Only civ members can do labor. And all civ members are a single creature, and use a single graphic spritesheet. They will all look at least similar.Are you absolutely sure that you can make corpses get abilities? because DFhack has (if I remember correctely) a tool to see the cause of death for a unit.
so no different sprites for each caste? :/
Post by: Meph on December 22, 2013, 07:53:54 pm
And I guess something can be done with dfhack for the corpses, yes. But I dont know C++ or lua and cant write it. I know modding, but for dfhack I have to rely on outside help.
Post by: shadowclasper on December 22, 2013, 09:30:28 pm
I'd suggest instead that there's a few starting warlocks, and each has some acolytes. The number of warlocks is capped at a low number. But they have a SMALL chance of attracting new acolytes each year as migrants. When a warlock dies, his most highly skilled acolyte rises to become a warlock.
Post by: Meph on December 22, 2013, 11:03:53 pm
Something like:
- Workshop: Build Skull Throne.
- Reaction: Appoint Warlock.
He will be the guy with all the magic spells, lead your army, and do the noble stuff. Acolytes can still lead skeletons, do doctoring and all that, but the Warlock is the boss. Might result in the very low chance of a Warlock migrant when you already have one, which will make for interesting table conversation. ;)
Post by: somebears on December 23, 2013, 04:47:19 am
Might result in the very low chance of a Warlock migrant when you already have one, which will make for interesting table conversation. ;)PLEASE do this. Make them fight an epic battle for the control of the tower. If the new one wins have him kill all acolytes!
Post by: LMeire on December 23, 2013, 05:29:49 am
An "Altar of the Moon", outside-only, consumes totems and souls to craft a "Dark Wyrd"- a sort of "weapon" that detonates on a successful attack, degrading itself into nonexistence and releasing a cloud of horrible syndromes. (Possible?) Give it to an undead squad and you get suicide bombers, stick it in a weapon trap and you get a landmine.
Make souls brewable into "Living Spirits", a drink that staves off hunger and sleep as well as thirst- but with a large penalty to movement speed.
"Cerberic Hounds", an opposed to life dog with three heads. Vicious warbeasts and impressive pets, plus their multiple heads mean that you can efficiently farm totems from them.
"Elysian Shades", fuse 4 souls together at the "Altar of the Moon" to create a shade. Shades don't do anything but wallow in self-pity, but can be "sheared" for a soul once a season when invaders are scarce.
"Thralls", an odd species that loosely resembles a spider crossed with a bat; warlocks originally created them by accident, but continue to raise them for their high tissue yields. Thralls can be made at the Augmentation Lab at a moderate cost or slowly bred in captivity. Comes in 4 unique castes: 60% of being a "Flesh Thrall", a pathetically weak monster consisting largely of vestigial smooth-muscles and stunted appendages. 15% of a "Bone Thrall", these varieties have so much bone-mass that they can barely move. 15% of a "Skin Thrall", a mature specimen often has enough skin to cover a horse- though the creature's actual size is closer to that of a rabbit. 10% of a "Brain Thrall", a horrifyingly fast beast composed mostly of nervous tissues, that paralyzes its prey with a jarring pain attack before ripping into them with its deadly claws and fangs. May attack even a long-time handler without warning.
"Ratkings", a group of 6 head-sized rats fused together. Breeds quickly and often picks fights over crowding; contact with their claws causes an eruption of blisters and boils, while their bites can cause necrosis and mild paralysis. Good for guarding secret entrances with.
Post by: udsuna on December 23, 2013, 11:06:00 am
Udsuna: I get that you like the system. ;)
....
I would like to avoid simply repackaging the same concepts to this race.
Actually. I really kind of hate it. I love the *idea* of it. I see so much potential. But... it really just seems to be wasted effort. And I used it only a few times before saying "meh, it's easier, faster, cheaper, and MUCH more profitable simply to provoke invasions".
Don't get me wrong- I understand that a great deal of that is the limitations of the game itself. It's a management sim, not a 4x.
I also dont see Warlocks as a race that siege and attack other countries. A crazy wizard in a tower might abduct a kid or terrorize a little village in the woods, but I cant see them going for full on frontal war with a big army. I think as long as they can live in their tower, surrounded by undeads, doing their evil schemes without being interrupted all the time, the Warlocks will be quite happy. :)
Ah, but the villains in so many stories are exactly that sort of thing. Evil wizard overlords spreading terror across the lands. How can you reference Jafar and NOT see the appeal in the 'enslave a princess' possibility?
Then there's Dungeon Keeper- granted, your "character" was more like a lesser god than a wizard, but the point remains. Age of Wonders... Might and Magic... Warcraft... Lord of the Rings... MtG (at least four different times)... you get the idea.
I'm not saying EVERY evil wizard does this sort of thing. But it seems to be a favored hobby.
Post by: Meph on December 23, 2013, 12:11:41 pm
I can only think of Yagmoth. ^^
Post by: udsuna on December 23, 2013, 12:34:27 pm
Yawgmoth you mentioned.
Lim-Dul... because the only thing better than 1 evil necromancer is a dozen or so of them inhabiting one body.
And that one vampire sorcerer dude whose name I forgot. Semagi or something like that. I never did like black decks that much. Blue-White was always my favored combination.
Sometimes throw green in there.
Did manage to spawn out an infinite-creature-generator combining a sliver queen, ashnod's altar, and training grounds. So much abuse, so little time.
Post by: Meph on December 23, 2013, 01:30:13 pm
Anyway, I sold my collection of 10000+ cards before I started travelling. Thats how I financed the first year of my tour. ^^
Post by: udsuna on December 23, 2013, 01:40:27 pm
And that might be it. I quit playing MtG long ago. Don't think I ever owned more than 2 or 300 cards. I never enjoyed games where the person who spent the most money won.
Post by: migshark on December 23, 2013, 01:48:43 pm
Sew a dwarf's body hair onto a citizen - requires dwarf butcherable item thingy: raise toughness and spatial sense, gain 1 level in intimidation.
Add elven limb tissue to a citizen - requires elf butcherable item thingy: raise agility and kinesthetic sense, gain 1 level in dodge.
Replace a citizen's joints with an automaton's - requires multiple automaton butcherable item thingies: adds no exertion
Transplant partial antman's exoskeleton onto a citizen - requires antman thingy: raise disease resistance and toughness, gain 1 level in armor user.
And so forth. Though I think the problem with all of this, is what exactly the item you get from a butchered invader is. Will the butcher's shop directly produce a soul, or will it produce an item that can be processed into a soul and alternatively used up at the 'fleshworks'/other places?
Post by: Meph on December 23, 2013, 02:06:00 pm
Quote
who spent the most money won.Tournaments solved that problem. ;) Each class allows different cards, with Extended being around 500€ max for a deck, while my Vintage deck was closer to 6000€. Some times I really think I should have kept it. :-\
migshark: Squads will be smaller, with more powerful creatures. But I think most battles will not be fought with brute strength.
Combining creatures doesnt work, because it requires transformation. I cant change materials or bodyparts on the same creature...
Butchering will result in a soul-item lying around. Directly. I thought about something like a "Soul Syphon" workshop. Soul + Hourglass = Phylactery, which is then used in reactions.
Post by: zlurker on December 23, 2013, 02:39:30 pm
Also I don't know if someone mentioned the idea or not because there's lots of words in some of these posts but maybe make it so that warlocks can sacrifice others to heal themselves of wounds and stuff.
Post by: Meph on December 23, 2013, 02:47:30 pm
I thought about a torture chamber: Send an acolyte to be tortured (which injures him), but makes all other acolytes work faster for a while. :D
Post by: mahrgell on December 23, 2013, 04:17:00 pm
Post by: udsuna on December 24, 2013, 02:31:03 am
And why not just heal via normal collected souls?
Post by: Meph on December 24, 2013, 09:35:50 am
Post by: AshFire on December 24, 2013, 05:16:47 pm
Why heal at all? If you are sick or injured, the residing warlock just aranges an accident and he gets a new skeleton worker.Can this be done by using LawWarlock? So the crime in the Tower is to be weak, and when an Acolyte is injured, LawWarlock comes to fight him. If Acolyte dies - so be it, if not, he is allowed to live because he has proved his strength. Presence of an ill Warlock makes others unhappy because he is unpunished criminal.
Another random idea: can something important (like wealth or blueprints) depend on the height of the Tower? Maybe building it really high should have some reason.
Post by: Meph on December 24, 2013, 05:27:24 pm
No, no and no. ^^Why heal at all? If you are sick or injured, the residing warlock just aranges an accident and he gets a new skeleton worker.Can this be done by using LawWarlock? So the crime in the Tower is to be weak, and when an Acolyte is injured, LawWarlock comes to fight him. If Acolyte dies - so be it, if not, he is allowed to live because he has proved his strength. Presence of an ill Warlock makes others unhappy because he is unpunished criminal.
Another random idea: can something important (like wealth or blueprints) depend on the height of the Tower? Maybe building it really high should have some reason.
Post by: Meph on December 25, 2013, 07:31:09 pm
All civ-members will be skeletons. And you... you will be Sauron, more or less. Skeletons do all the labor, but cant learn spells... but you can bring one skeleton to a workshop and run: "Possess a body", or "Take on form", and then the skeleton will transform into a caste that is allowed for the noble position. And the noble position has the special Warlock sprite.
You now have an army of skeletons, and one Warlock to rule them all. I will make a warlock, an acolyte/apprentice and an advisor. They are your three nobles, they can learn spells, and so on. I think this will work.
and if your Warlock dies... no worries, just his body died. As long as you have phylacteries and souls and skeletons, you can resurrect him, by simply possessing a new body. :)
Post by: Sage Ethereal on December 25, 2013, 08:34:50 pm
Post by: Shadow9657 on December 25, 2013, 09:52:59 pm
Post by: Remuthra on December 25, 2013, 09:59:42 pm
Post by: razorback on December 26, 2013, 10:13:34 am
I finally found the solution to this damn graphics problem:
All civ-members will be skeletons. And you... you will be Sauron, more or less. Skeletons do all the labor, but cant learn spells... but you can bring one skeleton to a workshop and run: "Possess a body", or "Take on form", and then the skeleton will transform into a caste that is allowed for the noble position. And the noble position has the special Warlock sprite.
You now have an army of skeletons, and one Warlock to rule them all. I will make a warlock, an acolyte/apprentice and an advisor. They are your three nobles, they can learn spells, and so on. I think this will work.
and if your Warlock dies... no worries, just his body died. As long as you have phylacteries and souls and skeletons, you can resurrect him, by simply possessing a new body. :)
I like that idea, really ;)
but in my opinion only 3 magicians or so are a little bit limited...
so i recently had an idea... as allways, i'm no modder so i'm totally not sure if this is even possible but anyway:
what if you just have different castes wich extremely differing learning rates and some specific starting skills
so every caste would have certain jobs (jobgroups) wich they can hardly change and therefore the sprites would simply fit
per example:
undead corpse caste: natural skill of novice in masonry/mining/stonecrafting -99% learning rate in every other job -> undead sprite
skeleton caste: natural skill in bonecarving and basic fighting abilities -> skeleton sprite
acolyte: some skill no worthless minion could ever accomplish, like praying; -99% on manual work
warlock: sorcery skill etc.
and so on..
For fighting skills especially:
warlocks should be the only ones wich can properly use their magic equipment (magic staves) and those would have a different fighting skill than the crude weapons the undead minions would use - so the recruit/fighter/legendary 'soldiers' would also have different looks.
additionally the mentioned nobles could also be used as different sprites for the most powerfull warlocks.
i know, this could be bypassed but i think if the player is willing to obey the "rules" it should work.
what is more:
could different castes have a different "biology"?
like if skeletons do not need to eat but also have just an expected lifespawn of just 5 years before they fall apart
undead corpses wich only eat meat but slowly rot
warlocks with certain extraordinary eating behaviors but a nearly unlimited lifespawn
Post by: ThaMuzz on December 26, 2013, 10:45:38 am
1) Really like the idea of a "captive prisoner/slave" item. Item would be harvested through either a "raiding" building that would act like the expedition outfitter, or by sacrificing units in the slave pits, which would act a lot like sacrificing a life to Armok, killing the unit who runs the reaction. Also like the idea of prepared undead tools, which could be used at the raiding building (to simulate sending out a host of undead soldiers).
2) I do like the idea of not relying on migrations for population. I imagine the Warlocks as less a civilization, and more a group of outcasts from other civilizations who have aligned themselves with dark forces. As such, having large groups of acolytes show up seems strange to me. I find the idea of these outcasts creating their workforce far more appealing.
Slaves produced by Broodmothers/lords would make up a core pillar of industry in a tower (already suggested this, but have some elaboration), and there would be a tech tree involved in improving them and the slaves they produce.
Basic Warlock Broodmothers would produce basic slaves, "blanks" or something. Only produce the weakest of souls when sacrificed/butchered (is it possible to make workers butcherable?). Fairly weak and stupid, useful only for manual labor.
Using a mechanism similar to iron/steel cladding war beasts, these basic Broodmothers could be improved to produce more useful slaves. Captives could be sacrificed to turn a broodmother into a version that produces slaves of that race. More advanced reactions could be used to create Broodmothers whose offspring a especially useful when harvested for souls or other materials.
One thing: when I was playing in 4b, slaves were not showing up in Therapist. That could make a slave based fortress harder to manage.
3) Demon binding might take a form similar to the current Colosseum. A demon is summoned and must be subdued. Its corpse can then be processed for a demon shard, which can be used to create a more pliable, subservient beast or used in advanced reactions.
4) In addition to Jafar, I'd suggest Abdul Alhazred from H.P. Lovecraft and the Skeksis (particularly SkekTek) from the Dark Crystal as inspirations.
Post by: ThaMuzz on December 26, 2013, 11:28:06 am
- Extract Skeleton: Kills unit running reaction. Produces a skeletal worker. Useful way to convert useless slaves.
- Create Skeletal Servant: Converts running unit into skeleton caste, preserving skill (which extract does not). Requires magical reagents.
- Prepare Skeletal Cyst: Kills unit running reaction, produces a Skeletal Cyst. Reaction only works when performed by skeletal workers.
- Open Skeletal Cyst: Consumes a skeletal cyst, creates a skeletal worker with no skills.
- Create Abomination: Consumes skeletal cysts and other tools to produce a tool that can be used to spawn a potentially useful pet/worker
Raiders Cabal Building:
- Prepare Snatcher: Takes skeletal cyst, cloak, dagger. Produces Snatcher Cyst.
- Prepare Raiding Party: Takes multiple skeletal cysts, weapons and armor. Produces Ambush Cyst.
- Prepare Siege Party: Takes a lot of skeletal cysts, weapons and armor. Produces Siege Cyst.
- Prepare Corrupter: Takes a skeletal cyst, clothes, magical reagents, gold coins and books of dark lore. Produces Corruptor Cyst.
Raid Launch Point: All would use a skill (something like Strategist or Slavedriver or something).
- Snatch Child of (race): uses Snatcher Cyst, 25% chance of being consumed. High chance of child slave tool as product. Small chance of triggering siege by race raided.
- Raid (Race): Uses an Ambush Cyst, 50% chance of being consumed or reduced to a handful of snatcher cysts. Chance to produce a mix of slave items, also possibly some loot. Moderate chance of triggering a siege by target race.
- Siege (Race): Uses a Siege Cyst, high chance of being consumed or reduced to a handful of ambush cysts and snatcher cysts. High chance to produce a lot of slave items and potentially good loot. High chance of causing a siege.
- Corrupt (Race): Uses a Corrupter Cyst, high chance of being lost. Low to medium chance of producing a few Traitor slave items and possibly some valuable loot. Small chance of causing a siege.
Post by: ThaMuzz on December 26, 2013, 11:44:40 am
- Convert Changling to Broodmother: Uses warpstone and a slave item, causes changlings caught in area to become basic Broodmother/lords.
- Transform to (Race) Broodmother: Uses warpstone and a (race) slave item, causes Broodmothers (not lords) to turn into a (Race) Broodmother.
- Perform Vile Experiment: Uses warpstone, several slave items and several Vile Reagents. Chance to cause Broodmother to transform into some variety of Vile Broodmother, which produce strange offspring. High risk, as offspring can turn on fortress.
- Perform Demonic Experiment: Uses warpstone, several slave items and Demon Reagents. Demonic Broodmothers produce dangerous but powerful pets.
- Perform Necrotic Experiments: Uses warpstone, several skeletal cysts and Magical Reagents. Necrotic Broodmothers produce undead offspring.
Summoning Circle:
- Summon (Demon): Can produce either subdued demon of the desired type, or spawn a demon like the Colosseum.
- Subdue (Demon): Takes a corpse dropped by a hostile demon, produces a demon shard.
Demonologist Hall:
- Consort with (Demon): Sort of like Tavern or Public speaker, different demon types produce different results. Succubus might remove bad thoughts, Pit Lord might provide strength, ect.
- Extract Shard: Consumes subdued (Demon), produces (Demon) shard. Useful elsewhere.
- Process (Demon): Produces Demonic and Vile Reagents.
Reagent Category Suggestions:
- Magical: Phylacteries, magical books, magical rods, crystals, ect.
- Vile: Stuff like blood, pus, biles, ect. Harvested and refined from various Changling breeds. Possible foodsource?
- Soul: Harvested from sacrificed slaves.
- Demonic: Gained by butchering subdued demons. Furs, hearts, claws, ect.
Post by: Meph on December 26, 2013, 11:51:58 am
I also want to add dark humor, not just "omg, I am so evil stuff", because among mermaid farms and dwarven childcare, DF cant get any more evil anyway. A "summon horned reaper" easter egg, Jack'o'Lantern helmets for your skeletons, a creature that likes to be in the torture chamber, things like that.
Post by: Remuthra on December 26, 2013, 11:55:28 am
Post by: ThaMuzz on December 26, 2013, 12:00:58 pm
Warlocks are basically Dungeon Keepers?
I was about to say that, you bastard! :P
As for everything being skeletons: What happens when you import a broodmother to an Orc fortress? Do the slaves it produces use Orc or Dwarf sprites?
Also: Can syndroms be used to force members of particular castes to drop altered corpses when they die? Or would you have to make them turn into a different caste, which would drop that special corpse? Could be a way for the tower master to convert invaders into slave objects.
Post by: Meph on December 26, 2013, 12:04:34 pm
If people claim that Orcs are influenced by Warhammer, then I guess the same people will say that the Warlocks will feel influenced by Dungeon Keeper. I love that game, and I am sure that I will include at least a few references to it. But otherwise the Warlocks will be a wild mix of evil stuff.
Post by: ThaMuzz on December 26, 2013, 12:10:46 pm
Broodmothers in their current form produce dwarves. It was a workaround , a fancy one at that, to get new civ members. The townportal makes this obsolete. I think I will remove them from appearing naturally (they are from a time, when dwarves were the only playable race) and will make a custom reaction to create them in the Warlock Dungeon.
If people claim that Orcs are influenced by Warhammer, then I guess the same people will say that the Warlocks will feel influenced by Dungeon Keeper. I love that game, and I am sure that I will include at least a few references to it. But otherwise the Warlocks will be a wild mix of evil stuff.
Perhaps I should clarify: I was wondering if broodmothers and town portal like reactions could be a workaround on the sprite issue.
As for removing the Broodmothers from Dwarf: please don't! The Rendermax fortress got a Lich in an early migration wave, and I had ever so much fun turning that place into a pit of evil. Had slaves, bound demons and forgotten beasts. Then I created an arcane defender, imprisoned the Lich, butchered the Broodmothers and killed the demons. Was good fun.
Although, making acquiring Broodmothers/lords require reactions might be better than having them be purchased.
As for influences: everything is influenced by something. This is not a bad thing.
Oh, and since I haven't said it yet: You are freaking amazing for creating all this stuff (Masterwork as a whole, I mean).
Post by: Meph on December 26, 2013, 01:14:08 pm
I guess I can leave current broodmothers as a dark reaction something for evil dwarven mages. But they only work for dwarves, so getting broodmother in their current state as orcs or kobolds would be very odd.
I can make warlock specific broodmothers, not problem.
Quote
Perhaps I should clarify: I was wondering if broodmothers and town portal like reactions could be a workaround on the sprite issue.Nope, not a chance. ^^
Post by: Grimmash on December 26, 2013, 10:09:30 pm
The idea of only having seven (or some starting embark size) of necros, but they don't need bodies was nifty idea someone else tossed out. I imagine that working something like the temple of armok, but giving the resulting body a longer life span, or no set limit, and then having a slain necro drop a shard that requires the reaction again to reanimate? That way you could have fortress death if all your necros are disembodied, and you have nothing left to reraise them with. There could also be tiers of reaction, and you might have to kill the current embodiment of the necro to get its' soul item, and run the reaction again. So if you want to upgrade, it requires sacrificing the current form and a period of danger for the new transformation to take place.
Not sure if this has been covered, but it might make sense to have skeletons or whatever have a shelf life, maybe a syndrome that causes random body parts to rot or disintegrate or something, so you need to engage sieges to replenish the undead slave hordes. A sort of trade off for what I imagine will be rather shockingly powerful necromancers.
Post by: Meph on December 26, 2013, 10:23:47 pm
The rest I am thinking about. I did the soul system for creatures today, hiding it under the guise of an improvement for dwarven religion... but we all know why I modded that in. ;)
Post by: udsuna on December 27, 2013, 10:13:07 am
The upgrade-from-skele-to-nobles thing sounds interesting. Although I think there should be a sort of upgrade system so eventually you can control a larger number of warlocks. You may start out as a small cluster of outcasts, but you should have the ability to slowly grow in power and fame, attracting other 'locks to your evil wizards' college.
Question- if you can't control the body drop based upon death, can you randomly create different possible corpses that a single creature could drop? So instead of a corpse, you occasionally get a prisoner.
Post by: ThaMuzz on December 27, 2013, 10:38:04 am
Broodmothers produce pet creatures. These creatures can be processed into slaves (either by butchery or via some syndrome that kills them and makes them drop a slave item).
There could be a set of specialty slave workshops, like Slave Furniture Shop or Slave Greateforge, ect.
The tasks in these shops would be governed by some slavemaster skill, either a single master skill or several specialty skills.
These reactions take some number of slave tools, each of which may or may not be consumed, and whatever materials are appropriate for what is being produced.
These reactions are useful for bulk production, and have a variable chance to spawn rebellious slaves.
I would suggest adding another type of appointed noble/caste: Slavemaster. I'm torn as to whether there should be more than one, recalling the idea of the harassed leader. Perhaps the number could be based on fortress size?
Slave Hall:
- Prepare Slaves: Produces a syndrome that kills slave pets and makes them drop slave items, based on species (if possible. Otherwise, butchery)
- Train Slaves in (Skill): Takes a few slaves (some are lost as motivation), journals and appropriate equipment for skill. Produces 1-2 (Skilled) Slave item. Very small chance small of revolt.
- Train War Thralls: Takes several slaves, journals and equipment. Produces handful of War Thrall items. Moderate chance of small revolt of armed slave creatures.
Slave Forge: If non-generic Slavedriver skill, something like Forgemaster
Slave forge would be used for batch producing large amounts of metal weapons and armor.
Basic equipment would require any slave, and have a very small chance of revolt.
Using better metals or producing better equipment would require Forge Slaves. Still low chance of revolt, but units spawned might have
Slave Furniture Shop:
Mass produce furniture.
ect.
War Thrall Pit:
- Deploy War Thrall: Consumes a War Thrall item, creates a pet that can be war trained and assigned. Small chance of rebellion.
- Battle Slaves for Sport: Consumes several War Thrall items, spawns a rebellion for you to crush.
Torture Pit:
All torture pit reactions have a small chance of producing a Loyal or Fanatical slave instead of the expected outcome.
- Torture Captured (Race): Takes a (Race) Captured Slave, produces a (Race) Docile Slave.
- Prepare (Special) Slave: Takes slave items, produce special slaves.
Slave Item Types:
- Docile Slave: Basic Slave, spawned by Broodmothers
- Captured Slave: Slave captured as a result of raiding.
- (Skilled) Slave: A Slave that has been trained in a skill.
- War Thrall: A Slave that has been trained to for war.
- Loyal: A Slave that wants to serve. Useful in certain reactions.
- Fanatical: A Slave that really wants to serve. Useful when sacrificed.
Slave Materials:
- (Race): Human, Dwarf, Orc, Kobold, Elf, ect. Some reactions demand slaves of a particular race.
- (Skill): Supersedes (Race). Used in advanced slave industry.
- (Special): Wracked, Virginal, Deranged, ect. Useful in certain advanced reactions. Some (Specialty) slaves might produce better souls when sacrificed, some might be needed to summon advanced demons, ect. Diseased Slaves could be released back to races to weaken them.
Post by: Meph on December 27, 2013, 10:39:57 am
I would rather add more and more spells to a few warlocks, then make more warlocks. This way you have these uber-powerful sorcerers, but do you really want to use them in combat? What if one dies? You have to convert a new skeleton to a warlock and start learning spells again. I think thats more interesting from a balancing perspective.
The siege/kidnapping system got a nice upgrade by McTeellox: The Probability-Syndrome script. Previously I could only add dfhack scripts with YES/NO to reactions. Now I can say: 0-100% chance. That allows a lot more balancing. For example kidnap from farmstead, I have a 50% chace for a kidnapped dude and a 5% chance that it causes a siege or ambush.
Post by: Meph on December 27, 2013, 10:47:19 am
Post by: ThaMuzz on December 27, 2013, 10:53:49 am
I wont be doing slaves. Torture chamber, yeah. Thralls, maybe. (Probably ;) ) But slaves, no. Makes no sense for Warlocks that control the undead to have unrelyable meatbags running around that must be guarded, fed and watered. Undead are more efficient. Besides, drow and goblins use slaves a lot.
Awwwww :(
I imagined that the skeletons would be largely mindless to start off. Useful for grunt labor like mining, hauling and basic combat, but unable to really advance in other areas. Slaves and slavemasters would fill in the gaps, as it were.
Post by: Remuthra on December 27, 2013, 10:55:39 am
That almost suggests that drow and/or goblins will be playable at some point in the future.
Post by: Meph on December 27, 2013, 11:01:43 am
Post by: udsuna on December 27, 2013, 11:08:34 am
Post by: ThaMuzz on December 27, 2013, 11:08:48 am
Okay, taking focus away from slaves:
Basic skeletons have massive penalties (95%-100% sort of deal) to all skills other than mining.
Advanced skeleton castes can be created by torturing captives with desirable skills.
This can be done in a manner similar to either the Dwarven Guilds or the Townportal.
In Guild style, a reaction is run that consumes an appropriate captive item (Captive Smith, Captive Craftsman, Captive Mason, ect), and transforms nearby skeletons into the appropriate caste.
The lore/flavor for this option is that the captive's skills and soul are being torn out and used to enhance the undead servitors.
In the Townportal manner, a reaction is run that consumes an appropriate captive item and spawns a new skeleton of the desired caste.
Lore/Flavor for this is that the captive's soul/mind has been bound to their skeleton.
Post by: ThaMuzz on December 27, 2013, 11:13:52 am
Post by: Meph on December 27, 2013, 11:29:55 am
The townportal-like building I want to avoid, because it still has some issues with military and therapist. But caged invaders can be turned into skeletons in a workshop, no problem. :)
Post by: Meph on December 27, 2013, 12:49:08 pm
People attack. You cage them. Bring cage into line-of-sight to a workshop. Run a reaction. Make the caged invaders a skeleton fort member of a specific type. Goblin skeleton, Elf skeleton, Orc skeleton... all possible. I can give them slightly different stats, like elf skeletons are better archers, and orc skeletons are stronger, while kobold skeletons are webimmune. Things like that. I have the basic raws for this and the scripts. I havent tested it yet, but I am very positive that it will work.
Post by: mahrgell on December 27, 2013, 12:58:46 pm
Promoting skeletons via souls sounds like a much better idea. (and give them castes that way)
So:
5 souls of a certain RACE -> morph working skeleton into RACE skeleton
one soul of any kind -> boost selected skill of skeleton by one
Post by: Meph on December 27, 2013, 01:34:30 pm
Post by: mahrgell on December 27, 2013, 04:15:38 pm
If they stay how they are, at least everyone is free to use them. If they are essential to convert your workers it would be terrible, imho
Post by: Meph on December 27, 2013, 04:17:08 pm
Post by: Teneb on December 27, 2013, 05:33:41 pm
Also, with the current system you propose, how will warlock sieges work out? Will only skeletons appear, or the warlocks as well?
Post by: Meph on December 27, 2013, 05:46:25 pm
Post by: Grimmash on December 27, 2013, 05:47:25 pm
I don't know if it was sugested already, but you could implement the repair of minions using corpse parts/bones as reagents and perfoming a quick transformation to a generic creature and back.
This idea, with a very short skeleton life. I was thinking something like 1-5 years. Hell, if I get 10 years out a dwarf, that is a banner day for the fortress. That also makes the need for killing paramount. Unless you can use animal bones to repair your skeletons. But that would be hilariously gruesome. "We must order these stupid wretches to harvest the cows before they fall to pieces! There are bone and viscera bits all over this fortress! I'm glad losing my soul and mortal body was part of the bargain, otherwise I'd be puking all over this tower!"
As to cages, you can ignore them. I am trying to ignore all traps in my MW fortresses. Even if you do use cages the micromanagement of completely disposing of all the gear, then pitting prisoners, then killing the survivors (depending on your pit) to train your militia does somewhat balance the overpowered nature of cages.
Post by: Teneb on December 27, 2013, 05:53:07 pm
Post by: Meph on December 27, 2013, 06:00:01 pm
Post by: Tsuchigumo550 on December 27, 2013, 06:06:01 pm
Post by: Meph on December 27, 2013, 06:09:58 pm
How about an aether-based transformation that turns them into a mystical creature covered in the tough aether-y hide, but only lasts so long?What? ???
Post by: Remuthra on December 27, 2013, 06:11:38 pm
A suggestion for a Warlock spell, I expect.How about an aether-based transformation that turns them into a mystical creature covered in the tough aether-y hide, but only lasts so long?What? ???
Post by: Teneb on December 27, 2013, 06:18:13 pm
A reaction requiring aether that gives the warlock aetherial(aetheric?) armour (via interaction transforming them into another caste) for a brief time?How about an aether-based transformation that turns them into a mystical creature covered in the tough aether-y hide, but only lasts so long?What? ???
Post by: Tsuchigumo550 on December 27, 2013, 06:19:24 pm
Post by: Remuthra on December 27, 2013, 06:23:59 pm
Aethereal like Ethereal.A reaction requiring aether that gives the warlock aetherial(aetheric?) armour (via interaction transforming them into another caste) for a brief time?How about an aether-based transformation that turns them into a mystical creature covered in the tough aether-y hide, but only lasts so long?What? ???
Post by: Meph on December 27, 2013, 06:44:40 pm
Post by: ThaMuzz on December 27, 2013, 10:23:53 pm
Post by: Meph on December 27, 2013, 10:42:25 pm
Post by: Tsuchigumo550 on December 27, 2013, 11:49:04 pm
Post by: Meph on December 28, 2013, 02:20:17 am
Fleshmonger (both Chief Medical Dude and Military Leader), 5 doctors, ghost.
Jeweler, Gemcutter, Gemencruster, Miner
Chemist, Alchemist, Rifleman, Bowman
Priest, Crossbowman, Mace, Whip, Pike (Will be used for magic staves)
Herbalist, Recruit, Wrestler, Spear, Sword, Axe, Hammer.
What do you guys think? They are based on Obsidian Souls work.
Post by: razorback on December 28, 2013, 05:26:21 am
Post by: mahrgell on December 28, 2013, 07:56:40 am
Post by: Remuthra on December 28, 2013, 09:58:51 am
Post by: Meph on December 28, 2013, 02:07:44 pm
Some workers:
(http://i.imgur.com/8cx2cbl.png)
Post by: Jerbot on December 28, 2013, 02:27:00 pm
Post by: Meph on December 28, 2013, 03:00:53 pm
This will make for a very tantrum-heavy warlock population. I think I like it.
Post by: Remuthra on December 28, 2013, 03:02:41 pm
Ui... testing shows an odd behaviour: Skeletons have NOEMOTION, and will never tantrum. But they still make friends. Warlocks do have emotions, and can tantrum. Warlocks can become friends will skeletons. (He is my favourite servant, it would be a shame if anything would happen to him). If skeletons die, Warlocks get unhappy, because fort members died. (Oh, no, Jack Skellington, he was so young).I would suggest training warlocks to be literally heartless, but this is funnier.
This will make for a very tantrum-heavy warlock population. I think I like it.
Post by: AshFire on December 28, 2013, 03:15:47 pm
Is it possible to set VULNERABILITY, EMOTIONALITY, FRIENDLINESS and GREGARIOUSNESS much lower than usual for entire race? Will it help?
Post by: Meph on December 28, 2013, 03:22:04 pm
And I like how the Pantheon turned out:
Quote
Gheyr Meqdes Cursedwicked the Sin of Fates is a deity of The Evil of Incests. Gheyr Meqdes most often takes the form of a female witch and is associated with murder.
Alenfayat the Ashen Smuts is a deity of The Evil of Incests. Alenfayat most often takes the form of a skeleton and is associated with disease.
Post by: Meph on December 28, 2013, 08:09:10 pm
Warlocks goes to collect corpse. Warlocks sees corpse he should butcher, and thinks to himself: "This corpse. Its a fine corpse. It would make a fine undead. Lets animate it." and then animates it. 'Cancel butcher creature: job item lost'. ???
Makes it a bit difficult to get to souls, when you need to butcher things first to get it.
Post by: Remuthra on December 28, 2013, 08:14:01 pm
Post by: Meph on December 28, 2013, 08:18:38 pm
I guess I have to take away their "raise corpse" interaction and it add to some workshop. This way players can chose manually if they want undeads or not. The way it is now, about everyone shambles along happily ever after. On a related note, embarking on 4 tombs with over 100 undeads is a good way to have some early defenses. They even run after all the wildlife and beat it to pulp. :)
Some random ideas I noted down:
- Soul Workshop => make soul wisps from souls, act as scouts. make enemies fall asleep. can be charged into suicide bombers.
- Changeling Workshop => transform changelings into magmalings, waterlings, berstlings...
- Warpstone Stuff => as always, some random mutations. Maybe even teach basic spells to skeletons.
- Distill blood => some kind of blood wine creating workshop. bloodwine is the favourite drink of warlocks.
- Arcane Archeologist => sifts through relics, fossils and treasures. identifies magic items in them.
- Emissary Quarters => embassy. call caravans and sieges.
- Necromancer Quarters => make new skeleton civ members
- Fountain of Blood => blood of armok-based blood producer. (maybe magma?)
- Fountain of Tears => tear of armok-based soul producer. (maybe water?)
- Fountain of Bones => bone of armok-based bone producer.
- Libraries => Warlock skill learning. Possibly spells/interactions as well.
- Training for Skeletons => Like Libraries, but only way to train skills. A basic and cheap workshop.
- Armory => Upgrades armors with spikes for attacks using interactions with itemsyndrome.
- Ebonglass and the other war-glass should play a role => Currently only orcs make use of it.
- A prison cell maybe? Dungeon. => Works like the Prison in dwarf mode.
- A learn-spell workshop. => warlocks can maybe caste 1-2 initial spells, rest is learned.
- Vampire and Werebeast making. => fits the theme. :)
- Demon summoning. => who would have thought. ;)
- tentacle monster that spams creep => like zerg creep tumor. :)
- bone monster that regularily explodes into bones => to harvest bones.
- Manually controlled necromancy - 1x1 tile AoE workshop, resurrects undeads around it.
- Animated Weapon Forge. Arcane Forge. Enchanter (?)
- Stitching runes on clothing. Robe + Thread = Robe with runes on it. Magical effects with itemsyndrome.
The soul wisp idea is from Boltguns Succubis mod. With my new soul system, Warlocks could easily resurrect the soul as a soul wisp creature. You can scatter them around the map to detect ambushes. They die easily, but when they die they make everyone around them fall asleep, buying more time to prepare for the ambush. :)
Post by: udsuna on December 29, 2013, 04:24:14 am
Also have a corpse stockpile safely away from our evil wizard hangout.
Solves all the problems rather handily, I think.
Or we could just have a bunch of undead being born of warlock activity to shore up our defenses. Either/or.
Post by: somebears on December 29, 2013, 04:29:12 am
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Creature_token#NOSTUN (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Creature_token#NOSTUN)
[edit] nevermind
Post by: Meph on December 29, 2013, 04:31:12 am
I think Wisps that make enemies fall asleep could be problematic because creatures with [NOSTUN] won't wake up (I have not testet this, but it is in the wiki)I know that this is true for civ-members, I dont know if thats happens to random creatures and invaders as well. Most nostun creatures are some kind of magical or mechanical uber-beast anyway, and wont be affected by a wisp. Titans, Megabeasts, Demons, that kind of stuff.
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Creature_token#NOSTUN (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Creature_token#NOSTUN)
Post by: AshFire on December 29, 2013, 12:50:09 pm
Like, Warlocks prefer to make lovely skeletons in the workshop without rush and risk, but when they need to protect themselves, they have no choice but to quickly summon several zombies (they may even be common zombies, not civ members).
Post by: Teneb on December 29, 2013, 02:31:29 pm
- Manually controlled necromancy - 1x1 tile AoE workshop, resurrects undeads around it.
How about, instead of a 1x1 workshop, creating an immobile monolith-like creature that animates the dead in a radius around it? It could be created in a workshop and hauled around as needed. Most importantly, invaders can also destroy it without having BUILDINGDESTROYER.
Post by: Meph on December 29, 2013, 04:44:16 pm
Thats another option, yes. :) Maybe I can add both. I do like the idea of a "necromantic circle", and a Warlock does a ritual to raise all the corpses nearby, but an automated AoE creature is easier for people that want to raise all the corpses. Just need a good concept for it. What kind of creature would you make it?
- Manually controlled necromancy - 1x1 tile AoE workshop, resurrects undeads around it.
How about, instead of a 1x1 workshop, creating an immobile monolith-like creature that animates the dead in a radius around it? It could be created in a workshop and hauled around as needed. Most importantly, invaders can also destroy it without having BUILDINGDESTROYER.
Some "Zombie Master", or a "Dark Crystal" type?...
Post by: mahrgell on December 29, 2013, 04:54:21 pm
Warlock sacrifices all his normal powers (and his body) to gain the ultimate power of resurrecting the dead. That he has to be carried around afterwards to use them just adds some irony, but you wanted an immobile creature anyway.
And you have to sacrifice a warlock for it. So it is nothing cheap. But power rarely comes cheap.
And if the head dies, it just leaves a normal warlock skull+soul.
Post by: MDFification on December 29, 2013, 04:54:50 pm
Thats another option, yes. :) Maybe I can add both. I do like the idea of a "necromantic circle", and a Warlock does a ritual to raise all the corpses nearby, but an automated AoE creature is easier for people that want to raise all the corpses. Just need a good concept for it. What kind of creature would you make it?
- Manually controlled necromancy - 1x1 tile AoE workshop, resurrects undeads around it.
How about, instead of a 1x1 workshop, creating an immobile monolith-like creature that animates the dead in a radius around it? It could be created in a workshop and hauled around as needed. Most importantly, invaders can also destroy it without having BUILDINGDESTROYER.
Some "Zombie Master", or a "Dark Crystal" type?...
Hrm. Well I'm a big fan of "making pacts with strange and eldritch beings for power"...
Maybe a large featureless blob trailing several tendrils? I'm note sure if you could cover it in a thousand, unblinking eyes or have them constantly whispering secrets in utterly unpronounceable languages, but I'm not good at this "modding" thing. For bonus points, make it be composed of a really soft metal and bleed dust/ash.
Lore-wise, it should probably be a servant of another entity that the Warlocks worship, gifted to them for their service. Might they be summoned through a sacrificial altar?
If you want to prevent their weaponization (since endlessly reanimating corpses during battle tends to lead to short battles) you could make them highly killable. As in, have them bleed out fairly rapidly.
Post by: Remuthra on December 29, 2013, 05:03:44 pm
Necromantic Monolith- Stone pillar creature with a big creepy eye that causes nearby corpses to animate under its gaze.Thats another option, yes. :) Maybe I can add both. I do like the idea of a "necromantic circle", and a Warlock does a ritual to raise all the corpses nearby, but an automated AoE creature is easier for people that want to raise all the corpses. Just need a good concept for it. What kind of creature would you make it?
- Manually controlled necromancy - 1x1 tile AoE workshop, resurrects undeads around it.
How about, instead of a 1x1 workshop, creating an immobile monolith-like creature that animates the dead in a radius around it? It could be created in a workshop and hauled around as needed. Most importantly, invaders can also destroy it without having BUILDINGDESTROYER.
Some "Zombie Master", or a "Dark Crystal" type?...
Post by: Meph on December 29, 2013, 05:21:18 pm
Quote
Maybe a large featureless blob trailing several tendrils? I'm note sure if you could cover it in a thousand, unblinking eyes or have them constantly whispering secrets in utterly unpronounceable languages, but I'm not good at this "modding" thing. For bonus points, make it be composed of a really soft metal and bleed dust/ash.This does sound awesome and very lovecraftian, but I wouldnt use it as one of the most basic things your race does, which is producing undeads. Its like Tier 0.5 tech for Warlocks. ;)
Lore-wise, it should probably be a servant of another entity that the Warlocks worship, gifted to them for their service. Might they be summoned through a sacrificial altar?
A black monolith sounds about alright. Odyssey 2001 style, which animates dead. :)
Post by: MDFification on December 29, 2013, 05:48:07 pm
Of course this is significantly more work and the immobile necro-god is pretty darn awesome, so you probably shouldn't bother.
Post by: Meph on December 29, 2013, 06:06:55 pm
Code: [Select]
[CREATURE:MONOLITH]
[DESCRIPTION:A black monolith. It seems to hum in a frequency just below hearing. Tendrils of green smoky light search the area around it, gently touching and probing its surroundings for anything that once hold a spark of light, animating it to eternal unlife.]
[NAME:black monolith:black monolith:black monolith]
[CASTE_NAME:black monolith:black monoliths:black monolith]
[CREATURE_TILE:244][COLOR:3:0:0]
[FREQUENCY:0][CANNOT_UNDEAD][BENIGN]
[FIREIMMUNE][WEBIMMUNE][MAGMA_VISION]
[SMALL_REMAINS][NOT_BUTCHERABLE][IMMOBILE]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP][NOPAIN][EXTRAVISION][NO_FEVERS]
[NOBREATHE][NOSTUN][NONAUSEA][NOEMOTION][NOBONES][NO_DIZZINESS]
[BODY:MONOLITH]
[SOUND:PEACEFUL_INTERMITTENT:12:15000:NONE:hum:hums:humming]
[SOUND:ALERT:20:8000:NONE:resonate:resonates:a resonating tone]
[NO_THOUGHT_CENTER_FOR_MOVEMENT]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:BONE:BONE_TEMPLATE]
[USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:BONE:BONE_TEMPLATE]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:BONE]
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:35000]
[CASTE:GENERIC]
[CAN_DO_INTERACTION:RAISE_CORPSE]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:Animate corpse]
[CDI:TARGET:A:LINE_OF_SIGHT]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:A:5]
[CDI:VERB:hum:hums:NA]
[CDI:TARGET_VERB:shudder and begin to move:shudders and begins to move]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:10] How about that? :)
Post by: MDFification on December 29, 2013, 06:23:09 pm
Code: [Select][CREATURE:MONOLITH]How about that? :)
[DESCRIPTION:A black monolith. It seems to hum in a frequency just below hearing. Tendrils of green smoky light search the area around it, gently touching and probing its surroundings for anything that once hold a spark of light, animating it to eternal unlife.]
[NAME:black monolith:black monolith:black monolith]
[CASTE_NAME:black monolith:black monoliths:black monolith]
[CREATURE_TILE:244][COLOR:3:0:0]
[FREQUENCY:0][CANNOT_UNDEAD][BENIGN]
[FIREIMMUNE][WEBIMMUNE][MAGMA_VISION]
[SMALL_REMAINS][NOT_BUTCHERABLE][IMMOBILE]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP][NOPAIN][EXTRAVISION][NO_FEVERS]
[NOBREATHE][NOSTUN][NONAUSEA][NOEMOTION][NOBONES][NO_DIZZINESS]
[BODY:MONOLITH]
[SOUND:PEACEFUL_INTERMITTENT:12:15000:NONE:hum:hums:humming]
[SOUND:ALERT:20:8000:NONE:resonate:resonates:a resonating tone]
[NO_THOUGHT_CENTER_FOR_MOVEMENT]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:BONE:BONE_TEMPLATE]
[USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:BONE:BONE_TEMPLATE]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:BONE]
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:35000]
[CASTE:GENERIC]
[CAN_DO_INTERACTION:RAISE_CORPSE]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:Animate corpse]
[CDI:TARGET:A:LINE_OF_SIGHT]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:A:5]
[CDI:VERB:hum:hums:NA]
[CDI:TARGET_VERB:shudder and begin to move:shudders and begins to move]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:10]
I like it - only thing I'd add given the chance was an assurance that it was watching you without eyes oh gawd
Post by: Remuthra on December 29, 2013, 06:26:41 pm
Can immobile creatures attack?
Post by: Meph on December 29, 2013, 07:00:08 pm
Post by: Meph on December 29, 2013, 08:51:59 pm
Demon Summoning Workshop Concepts. Maybe... Abyss? Abyssal Rift? (I thought maybe I could do three of them, one for DF demons, one for TES Deadra, one for Warhammer Chaos. I know some people strongly dislike crossovers, but its all optional. The creatures wont exist, as long as you dont manually summon them in the workshop.
Just want to know what you think, about the idea and design. Which one looks better?
Post by: Remuthra on December 29, 2013, 09:23:14 pm
Post by: Nuttycompa on December 29, 2013, 09:49:37 pm
Post by: Meph on December 29, 2013, 10:25:22 pm
And another one: I thought about the special gems the mod has... Tear of Armok, Blood of Armok, Bone of Armok. Dwarves make water, magma and metal from them... so obviously I needed something else for Warlocks. How about: Fountain of Tears, Fountain of Blood, Fountain of Bones. (yep, that last one is a no-brainer)
(http://i.imgur.com/7iuFh01.png)
They would produce souls/water, blood/meat, bones/totems.
Post by: Remuthra on December 29, 2013, 10:34:12 pm
Post by: Meph on December 29, 2013, 11:06:15 pm
Post by: Remuthra on December 29, 2013, 11:07:35 pm
Post by: Meph on December 29, 2013, 11:57:43 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/V3rk7eJ.png)
Or a more colorfull design, with entry ways:
(http://i.imgur.com/1uRMhNi.png)
EDIT: And I somehow got the idea that a "black rose garden" would be thematically fitting. Unfortunately, there are no roses in any tileset, so I made new ones. :) Had to replace one old flower... hope Mayday isnt too sad about it. ^^
I feel like it has some sort of decorational value... like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/pxcAYTw.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/2usszSU.png)
Mh... now I just need an idea for that rose. Something like "The Eternal Rose". Every worker that touches it fells asleep (doesnt work on skeletons), and gets no-age, no-eat, no-drink... effectively like a prison. They dont need micromanagement, dont need food or water, but they cant do anything. This can stop tantrums, or help forts that have large populations and not enough food/drinks. And another reaction is "Wake up the sleepers".
Anyone got better ideas for roses, rosegardens, magical rose-related workshops? ^^
Post by: DoomOnion on December 30, 2013, 04:31:56 am
I like it.
Post by: SharpKris on December 30, 2013, 04:40:31 am
thinking that a Bloodling might seem fitting
Post by: Meph on December 30, 2013, 04:49:24 am
Quote
could you make a workshop that uses blood as a fuel source like a forge uses magma?If you mean: Use blood as fuel = Yes. If you mean: Build a forge on top of a lake of blood = No.
Quote
So it's a stasis chamber for preserving a doomed tower.Yes, it might be. It can be a 100 other things too, people just have to bombard me with more suggestions. :) I am just rambling, designing buildings left and right and have no idea what I should use them for. ^^
I like it.
Post by: somebears on December 30, 2013, 04:58:42 am
Post by: MDFification on December 30, 2013, 07:48:33 am
I'd say make your own demons (with community imput if you don't want to design them) instead of doing a crossover, but there's already crossover stuff in MDF, so there's no reason to stop now.
I like the fifth altar best.
Post by: Meph on December 30, 2013, 08:00:04 am
Quote
If you can spawn DF demons that are truly randomized, it'll be awesome.Yeah, I can do that.
Dwarf mode can already do that in the black altar, up to 20 different procedually generated demons, different on each world you play. Same thing with the Forgotten Beasts from the Warpstone Pool. They are the real, procedually generated DF forgotten beasts as well... just friendly to you. :)
Post by: Rimbinas on December 30, 2013, 09:52:45 am
Somebody mentioned fueling workshops by blood I think its wonderful idea to replace coal used in dwarf mode.
I don't know if its possible but replacing or upgrading body parts in workshops would be very interesting thing to see... Like top caste of warlocks could stay pure or human like while working caste all disfigured with tentacles extra heads or arms to boost working skills. -Btw is the mutation thing part of Warlock lore or not ?
Post by: Grimmash on December 30, 2013, 12:31:17 pm
Post by: Meph on December 30, 2013, 02:14:26 pm
Rimbinas: Most of that is planned... for example no Ore Processor for Warlocks, they make little metal and a lot of slag, if they use conventional means. They get bloodsteel, ironbone, ebonglass...
Living stone and warpstone usage is planned. Animated weapons, yep.
Pets are a huge problem. All undeads would attack them. Currently warlocks dont have pets, except undead ones that make themselves.
Post by: Grimmash on December 30, 2013, 02:48:54 pm
Back to Warlocks as a whole, there are a ton of cool ideas floating around this thread. I think the biggest challenge is dinding a way to make warlock power increasingly dangerous as the player progresses up the tech tiers, and it would seem fitting to make the danger to warlocks stem from a combination of needing lives to sustain themselves and the threat of all the magical creations and undead or demons or the warlocks turning on themselves.
Post by: shadowclasper on December 30, 2013, 03:32:27 pm
I know you can have enslaved dwarves and humans and goblins working in Orc workshops for special things.
What if you can do the same with demon workshops? But if a building destroyer gets in (and make sure to put them in places where this is likely, for example, requiring touching slade and with magma source as well? or needing to be outside, things like that), then it releases this big angry hostile demon?
Post by: Meph on December 30, 2013, 05:45:40 pm
Quote
And from your descriptions, it sounds like modding a race is a heck of a lot of work.It depends what you do. Just a race is easy, but it has to be unique. It must play differently from the other civs, otherwise it would be "dwarves in robes". It must be the same size as the other MDF races, which are huge. If I wrote a civ for vanilla DF, it would be much smaller. But MDF players are used to so many extra workshops that add basic features, I have to redo them all for the new civ. And the balancing... that will be the big one.
Currently I have a civ in which half of the population doesnt eat, sleep or drink. They dont learn new skills, except if manually tought. They cant have pets. Undeads, evil biomes, tombs and towers are actually benefitial. All caravans that arrive will be butchered, because they are automatically attacked by the living dead. Civ members are not based on migration (I hope to cap it at the 2 hardcoded waves), but are freely constructed from materials.
Its all very... unusual. And I have no idea how it will play out. ;) Testing, bugtesting and balancetesting will take a long time.
Post by: LMeire on December 30, 2013, 06:00:18 pm
Further ideas related to that:
Parasitic roses that "attack" living things that get too close with a heavy bleeding syndrome.
Poisonous roses that can be farmed for their thorns, which are then refined into a nerve-damage toxin barrel with "Warlock Alchemy" or whatever.
Possibly farming roses into a "perfume" or whatever, used to apply to fleshy undeads so they don't spread miasma and make their masters miserable.
A rose with the opposite effect of the sleeping one, causing a living thing to move much faster at the cost of getting hungry and thirsty faster. Probably a catch-22 for worker efficiency, though if you've got a lot of lavish meals and drinks prepared, it might be a good way to calm down someone too important to risk putting to sleep like a military officer.
A "rosebush topiary" building, basically a statue/plant pot to beautify the rooms of demanding warlock nobles. Would be nice to occasionally generate a "watering and pruning" job that required a bucket of water, maybe make it wither away without care.
Post by: SharpKris on December 30, 2013, 07:12:06 pm
Post by: Meph on December 30, 2013, 07:31:35 pm
A catch22 rose makes no sense. My workers already dont eat, drink or sleep anyway. ;)
Possibly farming roses into a "perfume" or whatever, used to apply to fleshy undeads so they don't spread miasma and make their masters miserable. => This gives me an idea... make a zombie caste, which speards miasma. So you start with zombies instead of skeletons, and they create miasma indoors. So you keep them outside, or "upgrade" them to skeletons.
The rosebush topiary as decoration can be done, but not the watering/withering.
And I dont know if they are hauled to a hospital, no idea. I just got the sleeping part to work, now lets see what I can do about the waking-up part.
EDIT: Yeah, it works. :) They dont instantly wake up, but finish sleeping till they naturally wake up. But it works. :) They dont get hungry or thristy, ignore tantrums and just lie there, like some fairytale princess... sleep little warlocks, sleep. :D
Post by: DoomOnion on December 30, 2013, 09:47:51 pm
Post by: SharpKris on December 30, 2013, 10:40:44 pm
Post by: DoomOnion on December 30, 2013, 10:42:51 pm
Post by: Meph on December 30, 2013, 10:44:49 pm
- Skeleton workers. No eat, no sleep, no drink, no emotions.
- Undeads. Just raise whatever as friendly, but independant undead.
- Souls Wisps. Scouts that can be turned into suicide bombers.
And... I will not lie. The libraries have been a lot more work then I anticipated and took half of the day to do. But I think I found a design that I like. Some will call me crazy, but on the other hand people requested "large libraries" for Warlocks. Well. I think I can deliver that.
Is a modular system, you can build them together like you want. First example is the intended way, the other 3 arent wrong either. ;) Its 9 buildings. North/West, North, North/East, East, South/East, South, South/West, West, Center. Dimensions are 7x7 (center), 7x11 / 11x7, and 11x11 for the corners. I hope you like it.
(http://i.imgur.com/n0NbBVw.png)
Post by: DoomOnion on December 30, 2013, 10:51:28 pm
Post by: SharpKris on December 30, 2013, 10:51:43 pm
Post by: Meph on December 30, 2013, 11:01:18 pm
I am not quite sure about the straight walls on the 7x11 versions... :(
Post by: Remuthra on December 30, 2013, 11:02:47 pm
-Added Lego Libraries
Post by: Nuttycompa on December 31, 2013, 12:20:04 am
Post by: Grimmash on December 31, 2013, 12:43:47 am
But that is more of a tileset thing, not really a mod thing, and my personal OCD.
Post by: Meph on December 31, 2013, 12:46:31 am
EDIT: I think I will add ghouls as civ-members. They can learn and are faster then skeletons, but stink up the place with miasma, if kept indoors too much.
Post by: MDFification on December 31, 2013, 09:03:18 am
Post by: Meph on December 31, 2013, 04:49:59 pm
I want to avoid these constant transformations that you have in dwarf mode, because they fully heal everyone all the time. No guildhall for warlocks. Castes for skeletons and/or ghouls: Maybe. But no switching between them.
Post by: Remuthra on December 31, 2013, 04:52:08 pm
Post by: Meph on December 31, 2013, 04:54:07 pm
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 01, 2014, 12:07:14 am
Post by: Meph on January 01, 2014, 12:13:37 am
Post by: Octobomb on January 01, 2014, 07:24:03 pm
I wont be doing slaves. Torture chamber, yeah. Thralls, maybe. (Probably ;) ) But slaves, no. Makes no sense for Warlocks that control the undead to have unrelyable meatbags running around that must be guarded, fed and watered. Undead are more efficient. Besides, drow and goblins use slaves a lot.On torture, how depraved do you want the Warlocks to be? Many people have suggested torture for information, but I think they can do better: torture for fun.
Anyway, torture can be accomplished in several different methods. The first, easiest way is to just have slaves as items. That way they can be moved to chambers, tortured, etc (and maybe nearby warlocks nearby can gain happy thoughts during torture if they are particularly sadistic) with no issues. The other is to have them as pets, like plump helmet men, complete with feeding,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Well, that's probably the two main methods outlined. Yes, I'm a bit sick, but it came to me as possibly a really important part of their culture which nobody had looked at yet. It depends on if you can bestow custom happy/sad thoughts really, and how sick you want the warlocks to be.
Post by: kamikazi1231 on January 01, 2014, 07:56:33 pm
Post by: Meph on January 01, 2014, 08:02:59 pm
Its funny how you answer on my quote that says: "I wont do slaves", and then continue to write an entire paragraph about how to torture slaves. ^^I wont be doing slaves. Torture chamber, yeah. Thralls, maybe. (Probably ;) ) But slaves, no. Makes no sense for Warlocks that control the undead to have unrelyable meatbags running around that must be guarded, fed and watered. Undead are more efficient. Besides, drow and goblins use slaves a lot.On torture, how depraved do you want the Warlocks to be? Many people have suggested torture for information, but I think they can do better: torture for fun.
Anyway, torture can be accomplished in several different methods. The first, easiest way is to just have slaves as items. That way they can be moved to chambers, tortured, etc (and maybe nearby warlocks nearby can gain happy thoughts during torture if they are particularly sadistic) with no issues. The other is to have them as pets, like plump helmet men, complete with feeding,and other mechanics. This also means that (if they can operate workshops) they can get torture syndromes or from an item syndrome helmet if they can't. Dunno how Warlocks would gain happy thoughts from that though. Or the warlocks could even do the torture themselves via interactions, which I can easily see them getting happy thoughts from. The pain helmets could bestow an interaction giving happy thoughts to nearby warlocks as well.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Well, that's probably the two main methods outlined. Yes, I'm a bit sick, but it came to me as possibly a really important part of their culture which nobody had looked at yet. It depends on if you can bestow custom happy/sad thoughts really, and how sick you want the warlocks to be.
I have 2 things planned for the torture chamber at the moment:
1. Bring a captured invader in a cage nearby. Turn him into a ghoul.
2. Bring a warlock into the torture chamber. Torture him, which injures him and makes him very slow for a while, but gives a speed boost to all other warlocks in the fort.
Post by: BlackFlyme on January 01, 2014, 08:09:19 pm
On torture, how depraved do you want the Warlocks to be? Many people have suggested torture for information, but I think they can do better: torture for fun.
Anyway, torture can be accomplished in several different methods. The first, easiest way is to just have slaves as items. That way they can be moved to chambers, tortured, etc (and maybe nearby warlocks nearby can gain happy thoughts during torture if they are particularly sadistic) with no issues. The other is to have them as pets, like plump helmet men, complete with feeding,and other mechanics. This also means that (if they can operate workshops) they can get torture syndromes or from an item syndrome helmet if they can't. Dunno how Warlocks would gain happy thoughts from that though. Or the warlocks could even do the torture themselves via interactions, which I can easily see them getting happy thoughts from. The pain helmets could bestow an interaction giving happy thoughts to nearby warlocks as well.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Well, that's probably the two main methods outlined. Yes, I'm a bit sick, but it came to me as possibly a really important part of their culture which nobody had looked at yet. It depends on if you can bestow custom happy/sad thoughts really, and how sick you want the warlocks to be.
I don't think it's possible to make a thought occur through a reaction. It isn't possible to create new thoughts either, you only have the thoughts that are hard-coded into the game.
Also, reactions cannot be added to the butcher workshop. The only valid vanilla workshops are the kiln, smelter, tanner, kitchen, quern, millstone, still, and craftsdwarf's workshops, as well as any custom buildings you create.
Plus, I'd rather see a torture chamber be it's own building anyways. Would you torture some dirty mook with the same tools you use to cook your meals with?
Post by: Octobomb on January 01, 2014, 08:12:30 pm
I like the idea Octobomb. Could it be possible to add a reaction to the butcher that accomplishes this? Butchering is pretty much instant at the moment. Perhaps a reaction that butchers a creature but takes a while to run and provides a fortress wide/area of influence speed/work boost to the skeleton workers?I thought people might find this a bit sick, but then I remembered: this is Dwarf Fortress.
With regards to your suggestion, I have no idea how to change the time it takes for a reaction to take place. But I'm pretty sure I know a workaround: Make the reaction also create a rock which evaporates and bestows a syndrome which bestows an interaction which allows the warlock to make everyone work faster for a limited time. Not sure where it would fit in, but I could see it being useful to the races which depend on slaves - work faster or I'll kill you too.
Meph: By slaves, I mean torture-victims-to-be prisoners. But since you weren't planning on it anyway, don't worry.
Blackflyme: Drat. I was actually looking at df hack, but my Google fu is weak and my keywords vague. I was gonna suggest a separate workshop.
Post by: Meph on January 01, 2014, 08:15:17 pm
Post by: Meph on January 01, 2014, 08:23:05 pm
Today I wrapped up the fundraiser things, as can be seen here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131977.msg4876055#msg4876055). Since it was more then enough, the warlockery can begin.
I did do some tests on Rendermax for R4 to create illumination for Warlock Dungeons. So far not finished.
I did work on the creature and entity files, wrestling with crashes that occur when adding werebeasts as civ members. I wrote the ghouls and vampires into the civ, and made graphics for them. I also finished the graphics for the civ and wrote a little manual entry. And made the basic template for the manual.
I made a thread in which I will post useful modding knowledge as well as problems that occur when doing undeads, here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=135095.0). I hope that it both leads to more results, because more modders have a look, as well as teaching others how to do undeads as a playable civ.
Now the Graphics:
(http://i.imgur.com/cw0LwON.png)
This is the civ graphic file. Skeletons are most workers and military. Ghouls are fishers and rangers, as well as whip-soldiers. Warlocks are a few selected labors, as well as pike-soldiers, a skill I will use for their magic weapons. All this results in 3 different graphics for 3 individual castes. The only issue that can possibly arise is when a foreign invader is converted into a ghoul, because he will retain his profession and might have a wrong sprite, until the ghoul finishes learning his ghoul-professions.
Here is the manual entry about your new civ-members:
(http://i.imgur.com/3HDLfMm.png)
The 'Experimants' typo has been fixed.
Post by: Octobomb on January 01, 2014, 08:31:29 pm
I am not averse to torture. Just slaves, because they dont fit the race. I can see torturing captured invaders or kidnapped persons for information, but how do I pack that into a workshop? Informations and positive thoughts are not quite items that I could generate with a reaction.Yeah, I worded the whole slave thing wrong. They are essentially useless, don't use em for labour, just hurt em and kill em types. If there is no way to generate happy thoughts via df hack (I thought there might have been but my Google fu is weak and my terms vague) or at least happiness modifiers, fun is useless. I have no idea how info might work, I'm afraid.
But warlocks could get benefits out of this - different tortures might increase different attributes as the warlocks revel in the pain, some even providing bonuses like no pain, or no fear (spiked drinks problem: solved!) The gas emitted by the reaction could provide an interaction (short range) which allows it to give an AoE effect in some cases perhaps.
The other option is to make torture high value furniture, so you can place it in your dining hall and hey get happy thoughts from it.
Also: I am so putting the workshop bonuses in my mod. I'll probably end up making a masterwork version anyway, so feel free to use the ideas.
Post by: Meph on January 01, 2014, 08:46:17 pm
You cant make new furniture. Only workshops or furnaces. Warlocks already have NOFEAR, otherwise they would run away from all the undead all the time. ;) Sorry to sound so negative, like I said: I dont mind the idea, I even plan to do a "kidnap from village" raiding/expedition system, but I dont know what to use these prisoners for, except ghouls or materials.
Post by: Octobomb on January 01, 2014, 09:01:57 pm
Anyway, by workshop bonuses I mean prisoner goes in, tortured prisoner comes out + stone, which evaporates and gives the warlock operator a bonus in the form of a syndrome which bestows useful tags or attributes (I used no fear as an example) as the warlocks enjoy the captive's suffering. If it is AoE, an interaction could also bestow the same effect on nearby warlocks.
Sacrifice could also feature much lover lasting and more powerful benifits. If you like, I could knock up a couple raws for you (not now though) to better illustrate the effects.
Post by: Meph on January 01, 2014, 09:17:48 pm
Take dwarven tavern.
Replace the word taven with torture chamber.
Add prisoner as reagent.
Replace music with torture.
Replace instruments with "Instruments of torture"
Post by: Octobomb on January 01, 2014, 09:25:01 pm
Well, you can balance it out by making warlock ones much more powerful, but of course cuneiform prisoners.
Damn! I thought I had something there.
Post by: Meph on January 01, 2014, 09:45:13 pm
The information thing could be expanded: Torture for information, get "false info" or "valuable info" or "map to old graveyard" or "map to village" or "schedule of caravans"... then use these as reagents in the raiding/kidnapping system to get better loot.
I also made these:
Code: [Select]
[ITEM_INSTRUMENT:ITEM_INSTRUMENT_TORTURE_RACK]
[NAME:torture rack:torture racks]
[HARD_MAT]
[ITEM_INSTRUMENT:ITEM_INSTRUMENT_TORTURE_MAIDEN]
[NAME:iron maiden:iron maidens]
[HARD_MAT]
[ITEM_INSTRUMENT:ITEM_INSTRUMENT_TORTURE_THUMBSCREW]
[NAME:thumbscrew:thumbscrews][HARD_MAT] Dont think that warlocks would otherwise use many "instruments", so torture instruments fits fine with the naming scheme of things.
Post by: BlackFlyme on January 01, 2014, 09:48:24 pm
I have a few ideas for prisoners that are just off the top of my head, if you don't mind my brainstorming.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Meph on January 01, 2014, 09:58:02 pm
Post by: Octobomb on January 01, 2014, 10:03:44 pm
Also, would Warlocks use poisons much?
Experimentation!
Prehaps the torture device could be more arcane and evil? Thumbscrews are pretty tame, considering. Prehaps a magical electrocution or something.
Prehaps different 'strengths' of torture devices and 'strengths' of workshops might be considered - one workshop might be the a chair victims are bound to (weak) and you can use say, thumbscrews for a information grab, moderate success, pain benifits, very little, whereas a high end torture rack might be near useless for getting information but boy you can drink up that pain.
Actually, do you mind if I did some of this for you? As a way of getting experience? You pick what I do and retain complete control over what happens, and I practise and make myself useful.
Fakeedit: Can you inflict syndromes on caged creatures, perchance?
Post by: Meph on January 01, 2014, 10:40:55 pm
- Yes, but it uses three different scripts that interlock. fov-command, autosyndrome and in that case tweak-makeown, in addition to the transformation into a ghoul. Even I was glad when I saw that Boltgun already had a setup for this. Its quite complex.
I dont mind if people want to learn or contribute. ;) Currently I have one workshop and two reactions. It works, but can be expanded upon. The raiding system does not exist yet, but its very simple in the actual modding-part. Its just hard to balance it, with the percentages. Not too complex, not too useless, not too powerful. But yeah, go ahead. I was working on forges and failed at miasma-producing ghouls again. ^^
Post by: DoomOnion on January 01, 2014, 11:39:29 pm
I will never leave my room if this gets finished. Kudos.
Post by: Meph on January 02, 2014, 12:15:38 am
Quote
I will never leave my roomFixed that for you.ifwhen this gets finished. Kudos.
Currently working on weapons and armor. And I gave wrestling to ghouls, they now have a second sprite for fighters. :)
Post by: razorback on January 02, 2014, 06:31:04 am
i really like to read all that now!
but: why are ghouls quick and skeletons slow?
that doesn't really fit in my mind :/
about torturing:
i imagine 2 (or more) stages; one slight with a meagre chance of getting information and one hardcore with a high chance of getting information but also a high chance of killing the victim
Post by: razorback on January 02, 2014, 07:17:42 am
i imagine the skelletons to be a quickly bonerattling horde, quick fighters but rather weak and brittle (easy to kill) whereas the ghouls are slow, very strong and have a quite tough skin.
and no comes my next idea, a new caste:
THE GIANTS!
tribes from the mountains, that either have been corrupted, enslaved or swore an oath to the warlocks.
they are 2 ore 3 times larger than a human, incredibly strong but rather stupid and clumsy. their main labours would be mining and all kinds of metalworking. they have some natural skills in fighting, wrestling and so on and prefer large blunt weapons
they need to drink, eat, sleep and can even breed.
the downside is, they have very low offspring (no twins etc.) have only an expected lifespawn of about 25 years, need much more food and drink than an average species and arrive quite rarely in migrant waves.
to get more of them there could be a reaction in a somewhat higher magical building like "curse giant tribe" or "call the savage powers of the mountains" wich summons a small migrant wave with only giants
i would picture them somewhat like the giant blacksmith from 'dark souls'
(http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/3/32189/1840457-darksouls83.jpg)
Post by: Meph on January 02, 2014, 07:47:30 am
to be more precise about skelletons and ghouls:Most of this is impossible. ^^ Like needing more food or drinks, no twins, migrant waves of only giants, and why giants in a undead/monster fort? Werewolves, Demons, Succubi, Cerberus, Tentacle Monsters, that makes sense... classical horror stuff. But most of all: I cant do more castes. I am glad that I managed to fit the ghouls in there, but adding another graphic for another race/species in this would mess up all the skills again. It gets more and more difficult, the more you add.
i imagine the skelletons to be a quickly bonerattling horde, quick fighters but rather weak and brittle (easy to kill) whereas the ghouls are slow, very strong and have a quite tough skin.
and no comes my next idea, a new caste:
THE GIANTS!
tribes from the mountains, that either have been corrupted, enslaved or swore an oath to the warlocks.
they are 2 ore 3 times larger than a human, incredibly strong but rather stupid and clumsy. their main labours would be mining and all kinds of metalworking. they have some natural skills in fighting, wrestling and so on and prefer large blunt weapons
they need to drink, eat, sleep and can even breed.
the downside is, they have very low offspring (no twins etc.) have only an expected lifespawn of about 25 years, need much more food and drink than an average species and arrive quite rarely in migrant waves.
to get more of them there could be a reaction in a somewhat higher magical building like "curse giant tribe" or "call the savage powers of the mountains" wich summons a small migrant wave with only giants
i would picture them somewhat like the giant blacksmith from 'dark souls'
(http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/3/32189/1840457-darksouls83.jpg)
Everything else I will do on the civ creature will be castes (like skeleton = dwarf skeleton, elf skeleton, drow skeleton), or curses (werebeast curse, demon-possessed)
I am used to fast, clawed ghouls that hunt people down... skeletons on the other hand are undeads, which are alway slower than the living. At least the classic undead.
Post by: DoomOnion on January 02, 2014, 08:10:07 am
Make it happen, sir!
I have no problems with crossovers, I would very much like to see a Malkavian vampire in my tower going all cray-cray :D
Post by: Meph on January 02, 2014, 08:54:14 am
Post by: Grimmash on January 02, 2014, 09:35:20 am
Disciplines included Auspex to see the future, Obtenebration to use shadows, Vissicitude for bome and flesh, Thaumaturgy for magic, Celerity for speed, Potency for power, something for toughness, some social stuff, Animalism, Protean for using the earth, and a few I am forgetting.
Post by: Gamerlord on January 02, 2014, 10:03:40 am
Oh and make sure that skeletons can't become vampires!
Post by: Meph on January 02, 2014, 10:14:23 am
13*3*17 is a bit much. Currently vampire migrants are super rare. If I do that much, thats more of a "playable race:vampire the masquerade edition" ;) But I am not averse to easter eggs, adding a few of the more interesting vampire clans.
More Warlocks: 2 migrant waves, thats it. You cant get more. But I want to do it that you can resurrect each one unlimited times, if you have the materials and the corpse hasnt been destroyed or animated by accident. Skeletons you can construct, ghouls you can make from captured invaders. But Warlocks are rare and you have to take good care of the ones you have.
Skeletons dont even have blood. ^^
Post by: Gamerlord on January 02, 2014, 10:33:23 am
Post by: razorback on January 02, 2014, 10:36:05 am
Post by: Meph on January 02, 2014, 10:43:29 am
There is of course another way: The Emissary can run "force migrants", which is the same as the dwarven embassy. You should be able to get more migrant waves that way.
Post by: Gamerlord on January 02, 2014, 10:44:17 am
Post by: mahrgell on January 02, 2014, 10:45:24 am
So... The only option is to make massive amounts of wealth before the migration waves in order to get as many as possible? Can't you add some massively time consuming and irritating way to get more which uses large amounts of resources?The first two waves are not affected by your wealth anyway.
Post by: Octobomb on January 02, 2014, 11:51:12 am
Octobomb is pretending to be a ghost modder. He enjoys modding, being useful and cats for their lovableness. Beware his abysmal balancing.
Post by: Meph on January 02, 2014, 01:34:48 pm
Today I laid the basics and foundation. I added weapons, armors, clothing, tools and instruments, ammo and trapparts to the entity file. Did a few test runs. More modding on entity file, creature file, reactions, inorganics, buildings, the entire thing.
A lot of time was spent on forum support, fixing a bug in MDF, getting two fixes scripts sent to me (spawnunit and itemsyndrome both had minor issues), and being excited about the progress that is being made on a script for powered workshops.
I ported a few workshop directly from the dwarves, the most basic of reactions. Kiln. Clay Oven. Kitchen, Smelter, Tanner, Still, Soapmaker, Quern, Millstone, Craftsman. I added the Crematory, the Slag Pit, the brazier, fireplace and candelabra.
I also rewrote parts, made new designs for, and changed balance of reactions for these new workshops:
Scullions Sink. => Cleans jugs, pots, barrels, buckets. Useful if you do a lot of alchemy/chemistry.
Tailor. => Same idea as before, but makes warlock-specific clothing and armor, like robes, hoods and masks.
Basic Workshops. => Stonecutter, Gemcutter, Woodcrafter and Bonecarver got new designs.
Engineers Quarters => All new. See pic below for info. Makes all thing trap/siege related.
Bonemill => Mills all kinds of bony things to flux. Will be expanded upon for alchemy/chemistry system.
Corrupted Forge => Makes Ironbone and Bloodsteel and Dreadnought, which is a new upgrade. Its a metal that gives 50% damage reduction, it slightly better than steel, heavier, and requires bloodsteel and souls to be made. Expensive, but worth it.
I also wrote the manual entries for all of these.
(http://i.imgur.com/0kIboXj.png)
Post by: Gamerlord on January 02, 2014, 02:58:11 pm
Post by: Octobomb on January 02, 2014, 03:00:55 pm
Post by: Meph on January 02, 2014, 08:23:47 pm
I like the engineers quarters. I'm currently bashing my head on workshop design (your libraries are a miracle of engineering - even on a 3x3 scale it's maddening) so I'll drop that and just get on with it. I'm thinking 3 different torture chambers, one sacrificial altar and one other special thing. Too much?Do as you see fit. Thats 5 workshops in total? The sacrifical altar I can probably absorb into another building, because some sort of this will exist anyway. And whats the "one other special thing"? :)
Post by: DoomOnion on January 02, 2014, 08:48:49 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Octobomb on January 02, 2014, 09:18:04 pm
That special thing has a couple ideas floating around it at the moment. These include the suitably evil experimentation - prehaps finding new ways to inflict pain and improve themselves, or the much more entertaining humiliation chamber, the idea it's something you place in dining halls and such because it provides long term benefits, like increased skill gain say. 'Tortures' basically involve humiliating the prisoner for the warlock's amusement.I like the engineers quarters. I'm currently bashing my head on workshop design (your libraries are a miracle of engineering - even on a 3x3 scale it's maddening) so I'll drop that and just get on with it. I'm thinking 3 different torture chambers, one sacrificial altar and one other special thing. Too much?Do as you see fit. Thats 5 workshops in total? The sacrifical altar I can probably absorb into another building, because some sort of this will exist anyway. And whats the "one other special thing"? :)
Another issue I've been thinking about is raiding progression - I will probably try and set it up to be as follows:
Start off with kidnapping, basic torture devices and so on. Gain maps and info, do bigger raids, discover new torture devices and methods and so on. So you can't just jump straight to the top. Now, because I am a lendgendary procrastinator with very little knowledge on the technical aspects (how to make sure prisoner is nearby to the device, how to even make them spawn, etc.) who knows how long it'll take. But I'll keep trundling on, and as soon as you reach the point I'm at you're welcome to take over.
Post by: Grimmash on January 03, 2014, 12:10:25 am
Post by: Meph on January 03, 2014, 08:30:02 am
Quote
Clan Brujah
Strengths: Fierce warriors.
Weaknesses: Quick to anger, prone to frenzy.
Clan Gangrel
Strengths: Shapeshifters
Weakneses: ??? => Low Intelligence/Patients
Clan Malkavian
Strengths: Seers and oracles
Weaknesses: Insanity. Varying forms of insanity.
Clan Nosferatu
Strengths: Stealth and espionage
Weaknesses: Hideous, hideous looks.
Clan Toreador
Strengths: Art and socializing
Weaknesses: Obsession with beauty; pretty much subpar with everything else.
Clan Tremere
Strengths: Mastery of blood magic(Thaumatology)
Weaknesses: ??? => Self-Control/Weak Physical Form
Clan Ventrue
Strengths: Mastery of politics
Weaknesses: ??? => Vanity/Hybris
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 03, 2014, 08:54:38 am
That is, a race that is able to make use of a workshop that they cannot build themselves. Only reclaim forts could use them. You could simply copy/paste the reactions from one race to another... or even make special reactions that could ONLY be used by a cross-race reclaim.
I can't imagine spending too much time on them, but they could be nice as an easter egg. I was just thinking that dwarves should probably be able to make some use of all these workshops - even the Corrupted Forge...
And what would Necromancers do if they took over a fortress that had Altars of Armok waiting there? Would they use them for their own rituals? Or would they desecrate the altar, bringing curses down upon themselves?
Could be fun. :)
Post by: Meph on January 03, 2014, 09:45:50 am
Have you ever considered the possibility of cross-race secret reactions?
That is, a race that is able to make use of a workshop that they cannot build themselves. Only reclaim forts could use them. You could simply copy/paste the reactions from one race to another... or even make special reactions that could ONLY be used by a cross-race reclaim.
I can't imagine spending too much time on them, but they could be nice as an easter egg. I was just thinking that dwarves should probably be able to make some use of all these workshops - even the Corrupted Forge...
And what would Necromancers do if they took over a fortress that had Altars of Armok waiting there? Would they use them for their own rituals? Or would they desecrate the altar, bringing curses down upon themselves?
Could be fun. :)
:o
Ehm. Well. That certainly wouldnt add a new layer of work to everything. ^^ Its a very nice idea, and now that I have it, I can certainly do a few easter eggs, but somehow I doubt it that many people will find them. I already have several easter eggs in the mod, that no one ever reported finding.
That is an amazing idea for succession forts though. Especially once the next official DF update is released.
Post by: Meph on January 03, 2014, 10:15:09 am
Today I made new building designs, for upcoming workshops, as well as some old conversions like th Sawmill. A darker design. I wrote 4 basic workshops, the Shredders, which were a lot more work than they look. I created custom materials for each product, you have wood splinterz, shredded plants and gem dust materials for every tree, plant and gem in the game. The ore shredder uses the original inorganics, just in dust form.
These four workshops, Wood-Shredder, Ore-Shredder, Plant-Shredder and Gem-Shredder can destroy these items, creating splinterz/shreds/dust, which is stored in jugs. These things will be reagents for alchemy, chemistry and rituals. I know the manual page on them looks a bit empty, but using them is as simple as it gets. The wood shredder can also destroy furnture and make sawdust/plywood from it, just like the sawmill in dwarf mode.
In the end I want to have alchemy reactions that look like this: "Take a spoonfull of ruby dust, 3 ounce of netherwood splinterz, a handfull of bone bush shreds and some shredded plump helmets" I like the idea that Warlocks dont give a damn about ores and metals, wood and nature, shiny gems... no, they throw it all into the shredder, keeping only little jugs full of that stuff on their shelves.
I also finished two unique buildings: The Blood Winery and the Graveyard. The winery can extract blood and make bloodwine, way more efficient then the dwarven kitchen/brewery. The bloodwine removed the BLOODSUCKER from your vampires, so it makes sense to have them drink it. That way they dont eat your citizens.
The Graveyard is a cheap, but large building that allows slow, but free/cheap reactions. Similar to the Shrine of Armok, where you pray 20-30 times for an item, here you scour the graveyard or try to attract scavengers. You can look for corpses, souls, zombies and ghouls. All info in the manual screen below. You can also nick the tombstones and coffins, but thats more of an easter egg. ;)
Tomorrow I plan on finishing all the items and writing the manual for them. :)
(http://i.imgur.com/clwCkGR.png)
Post by: Gamerlord on January 03, 2014, 10:31:51 am
Post by: shadowclasper on January 03, 2014, 01:54:47 pm
More Warlocks: 2 migrant waves, thats it. You cant get more. But I want to do it that you can resurrect each one unlimited times, if you have the materials and the corpse hasnt been destroyed or animated by accident. Skeletons you can construct, ghouls you can make from captured invaders. But Warlocks are rare and you have to take good care of the ones you have.
I see a problem with this.
If you embark on an evil biom... well, then your warlock's corpse is going to resurrect right away. I might suggest that you create some kind of 'phylactery' reaction to preserve warlocks by sacrificing something else (several skeletons, a couple of ghouls, the body of a captured humanoid?) even if you lose the original body.
Also, thought. Shouldn't warlocks have a special building for 'taming' wild undead? Turning them into pets or something in the same way you tame animals? No where near as reliable as your normal skeletons obviously, but perhaps the first step in turning them into proper skeletons and such? You take a tame'd undead, and then it breaks down into various 'parts' in a special building. Fleshy bits are used for crafting new bodies or 'frankens' or something. Boney bits are used to create new skeletons from scratch.
A special type of butcher I guess.
edit: I imagine this could be applied to pretty much everything.
Rather than just 'transforming' skeletons into their base profession. What if bodies were disassembled and reassembled? This would be an activity done by either warlocks, acolytes, ghouls, or skeletons of the right profession.
You disassemble bodies into Bone Kits, Flesh Kits, Organ Kits, which can be used to craft varying types of things.
Also, just a thought? What if we -didn't- normally have skill growth in skeletons of any type? Not military, not crafting, nothing. Instead, you have to convert the kits into a special kind of kit (which would be absurdly expensive) and then when THOSE are assembled into a skeleton or flesh hulk/zombie/frankenstein monster, or used to summon a demon, or WHATEVER. You get a 'Legendary' skill level creature. Any non-warlock can be broken down into these.
You'd have 4 grades of assembly.
Grade 1: Normal skill level for whatever they're made to do.
Grade 2: Expert Skill level for whatever they're made to do.
Grade 3: Legendary Skill level for whatever they're made to do.
Grade 4: Used for building a new body for a warlock.
edit2: Also, showing different skeletons wouldn't be an issue except MAYBE for military skeletons, in which case you have the normal skill skeleton military on the one hand, and the legendary skill military on the other and have done with it. Alternatively, is it REALLY that difficult to have recolors? I remember you saying that different icons is really hard to mod in and the more you have, the worse it gets, but this wouldn't be so bad right?
(Normal Skill Skelies/Flesh Beasts: White/Green)
(Expert Skill Skelies/Flesh Beasts: Grey(Or bronze?)/Yellow)
(Legendary Skill Skelies/Flesh Beasts: Red/Purple)
Post by: Meph on January 03, 2014, 07:14:44 pm
You cant make colors based on skill. You cant use randomly running around undeads in reactions. (excpet with AoE effect when their are in the area by chance) Warlocks wont animate in evil biomes. (I gave them NOT_LIVING, they are no valid targets for animation) Making kits from creatures is impossible, because I cant use specific corpses in reactions, which is the reason there were such problems with biology and itemcorpses, and the reason for the soul system I added. Butchering creatures is hardcoded and always yield their bodyparts/tissues. Transforming a creature does not change their skills. Spawning a creature will always spawn a creature without skills, even if the creature has natural skills declared.
Quote
What if we -didn't- normally have skill growth in skeletons of any type?Thats the way they are designed already. :) They only have 50% skill learn rate on military skills, but nothing on labors.
Post by: jaxy15 on January 04, 2014, 02:36:28 am
Post by: Meph on January 04, 2014, 06:33:42 am
Items are done for now btw. Making progress. :)
Post by: Meph on January 04, 2014, 10:00:01 pm
Slow day today. Forum support took about 2 hours away, but I finished the manual about all items, added a skeleton structure to all the building info on the manual (icons, tables, names, dimensions and the like), and wrote the Ethereal Gate, a simple workshop. Tomorrow I will try my hands on something more complex. :)
(http://i.imgur.com/Gt9CNds.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/Qt0uRaM.png)
Post by: DoX on January 05, 2014, 01:18:48 am
So far really liking what I see. I only take issue with the Ethereal Portal. Sure, summoning basic materials should be simple for a race who play fast and loose with the primal forces of the universe, but on a technical level it seems too simple. I'd say use late-game material cost to build the workshop/items, but that negates it's use.
I'd like if it had some really minimal fuel cost. Like, one soul powers the portal for 20 uses, be it block or furniture.
Post by: razorback on January 05, 2014, 05:40:35 am
but what if all furniture and constructions made from the ethereal portal would just vanish (or combust - for even more fun) when the warlock that created it dies :D
like if it was just his willpower that kept them in this reality
i could imagine that would be really nice if you made your tower from just that blocks^^
Post by: Gamerlord on January 05, 2014, 05:41:54 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 05, 2014, 05:57:13 am
Post by: Meph on January 05, 2014, 07:15:52 am
Quote
Fading away furnitureThats what I was trying to do at first, but I couldnt get it to wither/rot.
Quote
I'd like if it had some really minimal fuel cost. Like, one soul powers the portal for 20 uses, be it block or furniture.I can make the build-mat for the ethereal portal a soul. This means you can use the portal for 1 month, then it self-deconstructs. Temporary buildings are possible.
It is, however, possible to make furniture that fades away after a few months. Give it a heatdam or colddam point equal to its fixed temperature. Doesn't work with constructions, but it does for everything else. Beware of ephemeral cages or mechanisms though :)This is.... interesting. 9 months I assume, the same as coal that is burning away? I will do testing right away, I did not know about this. Are ephemeral weapons/metals possible as well? I would assume so.
Damn it. Now I went from: "No idea how to make it temporary", to "Make portal time limited" or "Make items time limited". I think the second one is better for some... or I make different tiers. Its certainly fine by me if constructions are possible, but the rest withers away.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 05, 2014, 07:33:23 am
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 05, 2014, 07:48:00 am
Post by: Meph on January 05, 2014, 08:08:41 am
Oh, and while we're on the topic, it is possible to make cold, eternally burning objects by setting their ignite point below their fixed temperature. These will function just like regular items but will produce smoke. Useless, but good for atmosphere. Incense pans. Flaming cloaks. Something.:o (probably kills FPS)
I tested, its around 120 days. Half of that if I add both cold and heatdam points that are the same as the fixed temp. I havent tried larger differences in temps, I should probably make a table for that. Picks, armors, furniture, all works.
This might lead to epic "a masterwork has been lost" spam though. But if I take away the skill from the reaction, it finishes instantly. Again, slightly unbalanced. Maybe an intermediate step that needs a skill, makes a boulder, then using the boulder as a reagent for a skill-less final step. But I am open to better suggestions.
Indigofenix: These smoking items... I guess you can also make them wither away after some time, same way as the others. This leads to a very nice idea about furnaces. Orcish Blacksmoke furnace would have a reason to be build outside for once.
Post by: Meph on January 05, 2014, 08:18:21 am
Black smoke is created, real one. Causes thoughts like "choked on smoke underground lately". Nice. Rain puts it out. (Correction: Start of rain put it out for a few secs, but it starts to burn again on the next check of temperature, regardless of the fact that its still raining.
People could make 1-day smoke-items. Start furnace, makes smoke, item withers away after a few hours, so only one cloud of smoke gets released. This means furnace workers are a bit unhappier, and it makes sense to build smokestacks/air-vents.
Item tested: Chairs.
100 points difference lasted <3 days.
80 points difference lasted <4 days.
60 points difference lasted ~4 days.
40 points difference lasted ~6 days.
20 points difference lasted ~9 days.
10 points difference lasted ~15 days.
5 points difference lasted <30 days. (Didnt quite catch it. Between 25 and 30)
This means we can have items that last ~120 days max, and progress down from there.
Post by: Meph on January 05, 2014, 09:42:00 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phylactery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phylactery)
How about this: You take a soul (which withers away), and a hourglass, and make a phylactery. It's essentially soul storage, a way to make souls not wither away. Phylacteries could be used for everything that souls are being used for.
This way you can build the Ethereal portal quickly from a soul (but it will be gone after a month), or you build the building later again, when you have access to phylacteries, and it will be a constant workshop. :)
EDIT: About the ethereal/ephemeral things: I am quite undecided. On the one hand, I can do furniture that withers away, which is great (because its new). On the other hand it would result in a lot of micromanagement. Lets rebuild the entire sleeping area every 3 months or so. -.- The ethereal weapons and armors as well, equipping military is complex enough. And I wanted to use the ether-stuff to allow people to color-code their dungeons easily, to make red, blue, magenta rooms and designs... I am still trying to come up with a good mix of all this.
Post by: jaxy15 on January 05, 2014, 10:05:36 am
Post by: Meph on January 05, 2014, 10:19:31 am
Edit: Wait a second. Ethereal metals mean that I can give invaders very good gear, which automatically self-destructs after a while. This would solve problems of FPS and that the game is too easy, because you can equip yourself too easily.
Post by: Grimmash on January 05, 2014, 11:15:29 am
For ethereal weapons, maybe make them out of second workshop, and limit the qualities of the ethereal material type to make it a mid range material, so it won't just be an IWIN button.
The smoke idea is interesting, but I would maybe be careful adding that to underground-centric races. It would make using magma workshops much more difficult, and it can already be a big challenge digging down to the magma without have smokestacks going all the way to the surface or a cavern level. Very cool idea though. Thematically I like it.
Post by: Meph on January 05, 2014, 11:48:35 am
You could have two sets of reactions at the ethereal portal - One set for permanent blocks, maybe with a reagent that is readily abundant, like clay or sand, and make it a high yield like slag to concrete. The second set would be truly ethereal, and fade after 120 days. That would allow players to decided how to make things.Most of this is what I was going for.
For ethereal weapons, maybe make them out of second workshop, and limit the qualities of the ethereal material type to make it a mid range material, so it won't just be an IWIN button.
The smoke idea is interesting, but I would maybe be careful adding that to underground-centric races. It would make using magma workshops much more difficult, and it can already be a big challenge digging down to the magma without have smokestacks going all the way to the surface or a cavern level. Very cool idea though. Thematically I like it.
I currently have a ethereal forge, which makes items from 2 materials. Irongrade, withers away after 3-4 months, and steelgrade, withers away after 1 month.
The furniture stays forever, but the blocks wither away. So you can make constructs with them (these stay forever as well), but you cant use the blocks for anything else.
Making these buildings now costs a soul, which withers away as well. ^^
Smoke would be on fuel-reactions only, not on the magma workshops.
Post by: Meph on January 05, 2014, 12:23:37 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/dyUJalT.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/8bYgSEN.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/JmyHgdQ.png)
Feedback more then welcome. I will try to wrap up a alpha-release tomorrow, so that people can playtest a little bit if they like. It wont include any sort of balancing, but at least you can have a look at the things that are added so far. :)
EDIT: I also added all the building designs to the manual, with a little table and the fitting links at the top, but no content yet. Just the graphics.
A note about the nobles: The harbinger and his 100 unit-squad should simulate a necromancer on top of this shambling army of undeads. No big tactics, just a large group of undeads. It should play differently from dwarves, thats why. ;)
Post by: jaxy15 on January 05, 2014, 12:37:22 pm
Post by: mahrgell on January 05, 2014, 12:54:32 pm
PS: I guess the mistress uses a scourge now :P
Post by: Meph on January 05, 2014, 01:02:42 pm
Quote
PS: I guess the mistress uses a scourge nowIts not by weapon, but weapon skill:
[EXECUTION_SKILL:WHIP] - this means scourge or flails, both are ok. But it makes a lot more sense to get hit with a whip as a punishment, than a hammer... I think. Except the Hexenhammer. ^^
Post by: Grimmash on January 05, 2014, 01:59:33 pm
Post by: Talvara on January 05, 2014, 02:32:47 pm
I'm wondering how you'd set up some nice archer skeletons on the balcony :P
I took the libery to do a little sprite editing aswell, I figured a female warlock becomming the mistress wouldn't suddenly make her sprout wings and horns and become a succubus.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/Talvara/Mistress_zpseb3c797e.png) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Talvara/media/Mistress_zpseb3c797e.png.html)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/Talvara/Mistress2X_zps79dde519.png) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Talvara/media/Mistress_zpseb3c797e.png.html)
I tried to find a nice pale and sickly skintone but it doesn't feel quite right yet
Post by: jaxy15 on January 05, 2014, 02:36:07 pm
So the way the military is set up sounds like you can only have 2 squads? (the harbringer one and the doctor one?) or can you also have other militia captains aside from the 4 thematic ones?The horsemen of the apocalypse are all in 4 separate squads, apparently.
Post by: Octobomb on January 05, 2014, 05:05:52 pm
Progress so far:
A weak chamber which can be quickly and basically built. Provides very little !!FUN!!, although needs another use to keep it relevant.
A stronger chamber which provides greater information and a good amount of !!FUN!!- probably needs another hook too.
A chamber dedicated to psychological torture - less !!FUN!!, but great information capacities.
A chamber of maximum !!FUN!! where you can give Warlocks proper bonuses - but good luck getting info out of anyone.
A humiliation chamber where the warlocks get minor, long lasting bonuses, to skills for example.
Some of the could be merged or removed.
A variety of instruments - need names and effects, although I'm thinking:
2x regular conventional torture instruments.
1x regular torture instrument for max !!FUN!!.
2x magically imbued torture instruments (perhaps needing souls?).
1x magically imbued torture instruments for maximum information.
A variety of maps - some real, some wrong, some fake (trapped).
Travelers - surprise the nomads - easy slaves, little treasure. Maps one use.
Merchants - ambush a convoy - easy money, easy slaves. Maps one use.
Armored convoy - jackpot - lots of materials, few slaves. Maps one use.
Town - Town raid - standard torture award, easyish slaves and treasure, moderate rewards.
Any suggestions? Lots and lots here.
Work ho! :)
Post by: shadowclasper on January 05, 2014, 08:02:58 pm
Post by: Meph on January 06, 2014, 12:30:21 am
Octobomb: Before you do a normal and a magical version, maybe focus on the normal one first. Its much easier to expand on something thats already written, instead of looking at a massive todo list and not knowing where to start. Are you doing concepts atm, or do you have raws that people can look at? :)
shadowclasper/jaxy15/talvara: You get 6 squads. 1 with 100 units, 1 with 5 units (I might even delete that one, but I like the idea of a military-medic), and 4 with 1 unit. Thats it. I cant restrict specific castes into specific soldiers. I cant do a "mage-only" squad of 5 and a "skeleton-only" squad of 25, so I went with this instead. But military training is different anyhow. Mages attack mostly with interactions, ghouls have natural skills, and skeletons can barely gain skills without manually upgrading them in workshops. So baracks and archery ranges are not that widely useful.
EDIT: And Warlock resurrection is in. You can now resurrect warlocks once every 3 months, as long as you can pay 10 souls, and have a living warlock that can run the reaction. :)
Post by: Meph on January 06, 2014, 05:47:12 am
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 06, 2014, 07:17:55 am
Cause when the invader come , I would love to have ability to turn my 100 air head skeletons into steel clad murder machine ASAP
By the way that light is sexy :)
Post by: Meph on January 06, 2014, 07:38:19 am
Quick question, will ethereal forge be able to mass product weapons in single reaction?No, no mass producing. The reactions are already free, what do you want more? (Well, mass producing obviously^^)
Cause when the invader come , I would love to have ability to turn my 100 air head skeletons into steel clad murder machine ASAP
By the way that light is sexy :)
Currently working on boneforge and soul syphon. :) Oh, and I replaced spears with pitchforks. Seems to fit better and has similar stats.
Post by: Gamerlord on January 06, 2014, 07:40:44 am
Post by: jaxy15 on January 06, 2014, 07:40:58 am
Post by: Meph on January 06, 2014, 07:59:41 am
No idea if it should do anything besides that.
Alpha release: I dont know. Maybe in around 12 hours, if I upload it with the daily devlog. I can also wait a day, and add more stuff.
Post by: Gamerlord on January 06, 2014, 08:00:18 am
Post by: Meph on January 06, 2014, 08:15:06 am
Post by: Gamerlord on January 06, 2014, 08:37:59 am
Post by: jaxy15 on January 06, 2014, 09:17:32 am
Post by: Meph on January 06, 2014, 09:29:32 am
Post by: fricy on January 06, 2014, 10:24:47 am
Well, if youFTFY :Ddont want alove your skeleton friend, just make a nice breastplate of him. 8)
This sounds fun, good job Meph.
Post by: Meph on January 06, 2014, 12:05:44 pm
Got up a 5 o'clock today, got heaps done. :)
Spears have been replaced with pitchforks, I added special warlock illuminations and two decorations (dead roots and dead trees), 2 test-embark profiles and I added:
The Soul Syphon which can store souls.
The Boneforge, which makes bone armorset and bone weaponry and catapults/ballistas.
The Blight Fletcher, which makes arrows and quivers and can make poisons and coat ammo with it.
The Necromancy tree... The Necro Circle, which can animate all dead in 15 tile radius, but you cant control them. The Necro Shrine, which can raise new skeleton workers, raise zombies and soul wisps, (super important for your fort, you get new workers this way), and the Necro Altar, which can revive skeletons (so you can keep the well trained ones), resurrect Warlocks (immortality FTW), and revive Megabeasts.
Doctors Chamber can train medical skills and reassemble Skeletons. So if your skeleton soldier lost a limb or two, you can reattach them.
The Torture Chamber, which can turn captured invaders into Ghouls (again, new workers for your civ), or torture a single Warlock to make the rest work faster for a month.
The Darkpact. Experimental. Uses Putnams HackWish script, which kinda crashes the game for me in a third of the cases, but if it runs, its beautiful. Make a deal with the devil, chose your reward. :) I added it for free atm, so that people can test it. I want to know if the crashes are something specific to my system or not.
Here is the download for the people that want to test the current work: ALPHA DOWNLOAD - FOR
(http://i.imgur.com/s4uAevG.png)
And the progress from yesterday:
(http://i.imgur.com/RRfmezl.png)
Post by: mahrgell on January 06, 2014, 12:32:53 pm
Post by: jaxy15 on January 06, 2014, 12:35:19 pm
Hmmm, I really like your idea about squad limitations. But there is one problem. While I don't mind, that ranged units have to be in the same squad as melee units (players will adapt, not every race has to play the same) BUT... DF is simply not made for that. If you want to have 5 ranged skeletons in your 100 skeleton force... every skeleton will have to carry a quiver and ammo, since it can't be assigned individually but only on a squad level :(The fleshmonger can lead a squad of 5, so you could turn that into a ranged squad.
Post by: Meph on January 06, 2014, 12:36:48 pm
Post by: mahrgell on January 06, 2014, 12:44:24 pm
Its a limitation that I didnt think of. Warlocks use magical weapons which use ammo as well. I dont know. :-\ Maybe no ranged weapons at all? ^^ Or ranged weapons that are actually meele weapons that add an interaction to shoot?Yeah, i think daggers adding some ranged spells would be fine. Is there some way to make those weapons get used up? either based on usage (can cast 50 times) or on time(lasts 30 days). If it is on time, it would be nice, if there was a way to store them without counting for that time. Actually the same way as it happens with food. While stored in a barrel it does not wither, but if it is lying around (or carried around) it starts to wither away.
Post by: jaxy15 on January 06, 2014, 01:00:11 pm
Post by: Meph on January 06, 2014, 01:11:25 pm
I dont know about prices yet for the Embassy. Souls again? Coins again? Something else? Blood?
I still have to come up with an entire system for alchemy btw. ^^ And spell learning. ^^
Post by: jaxy15 on January 06, 2014, 01:38:45 pm
Post by: Meph on January 06, 2014, 01:43:27 pm
Post by: jaxy15 on January 06, 2014, 01:44:25 pm
Post by: Meph on January 06, 2014, 01:50:15 pm
Post by: Meph on January 06, 2014, 02:11:17 pm
Code: [Select]
General ideas:
- If all Warlocks are dead, your Skeletons/Ghouls slowly turn opposed to life, till you lose the fort.
- Warlocks can recruit Necromancers from tombs and towers.
- Wights, Draugrs, Tomblords, Liches, Ghosts, Werebeasts, Possessed Warlocks. All missing.
- Lovecraftian stuff.
- Warhammer Chaos.
- TES Oblivion.
- Boltguns Pets, Tentacle Monster and Pain Elementals and more.
List of missing workshops/furnaces:
- Glass Shaper = Makes alchemical tools like Retort, Alembic and Calcinator from glass.
- Chemist = Make... acids? Explosives? I dont know.
- Alchemist = Make... I got no clue. Maybe reagents for Rituals and Spells. (instead of souls)
- Doctor = More Experiments of some kind.
- Black Nest = Spawn undead skeleton dragons.
- Spawning Pool = Spawn changelings and all that fits.
- Spider Pit = Spawn spider pets and silk.
- Fortune Teller = Get a fort-wide effect for 1 month, good or bad, randomized.
- Emissary = Invite migrants, caravans and sieges.
- Warmonger = Start raids/kidnappings for prisoners or loot.
- Hoardmaster = Sell corpses and kidnapped prisoners for... stuff.
- Demonic Attorney = Sell souls to the underworld.
- Torture Chamber = Some sort of information/map system used in raids.
- Library Center = Bind and write books.
- Library 1 = 1 (maybe spell learn (done in all libraries))
- Library 2 = 2 (maybe skill teach to ghouls/skeletons)
- Library 3 = 3 (maybe better Necromancy)
- Library 4 = 4 (maybe creature charming)
- Library 5 = 5 (maybe plant summoning)
- Library 6 = 6 (maybe item summoning)
- Library 7 = 7 (maybe creature summoning)
- Library 8 = 8 (maybe gobal spells)
- Fountain of Tears = Make souls
- Fountain of Blood = Make blood
- Fountain of Bones = Make bones
- Enchanter of Weapons = Special effects for weapons
- Enchanter of Cloths = Special effects for robes/cloaks/hoods
- Fleshsmith = Build better undeads, Fleshgolem, Abominations, Monsters...
- Battleforge = Armorsets, add spikes to armor and shields for interactions
- Ebonglass Forge = Make metal-grade glasses and more expensive glasses.
- The Abyss = Summon demons.
- The Darkpact = Trade with the devil. Needs Putnams script to work without crashes.
- The Grand Convocation= Slayrace and immolate. Fort wide epic spells. Needs all libraries.
- The Eternal Rose = Stasis chamber. Keep warlocks on ice for bad times.
- Thrall Chamber = Make thralls from... prisoners? Skeleton? Ghouls?
- Vampire Crypt = Make vampires from... prisoners? Warlocks?
- Werebeasts Lair = Make werebeasts from... prisoners? Warlocks? Ghouls?
Post by: casino.doug on January 06, 2014, 03:51:27 pm
Post by: Isngrim on January 06, 2014, 06:07:51 pm
Post by: megahelmet on January 06, 2014, 06:57:35 pm
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 06, 2014, 08:02:35 pm
Post by: Teneb on January 06, 2014, 08:14:07 pm
Post by: megahelmet on January 06, 2014, 08:25:45 pm
Edit: I have just made it through year one. I genned a world 150 years old. My civ had several domesticed animals at embark. Evil animals...except for Aurachocs Cows. The bone wolves I bought (which were apparantly opposed to life) ate them. Then they rose up and spent the entire next year chasing the living one.
A vampire ate one of my warlocks. I'm assuming strategic placement of bloodwine stockpiles is the only way to get them to choose wine over sleepers.
Since I embarked on a terrifying biome, it's slightly more difficult to get souls. Things keep re-animating before I can get to them. In other news, my fisher-ghouls are busy creating a massive army of mussel shells to protect the dungeon.
The orcs, taiga orcs, and goblins keep insisting on trying to trade with me. The wagons make it to my depot but the guards make a nuisance of themselves the entire time killing my uncontrolled undead.
Question: I like the theme of the military, but it has made it...dangerous to use until I have a room set up for the warlock. Perhaps, there could be just one more army group, but it can only be led by a ghoul or skeleton. Only requirement is a tomb. And since they are ghouls and skeletons, they wont get overly upset when you dont get around to it for a while. The 9 Ring Wraiths kind of theme.
Second Question: Storing souls into phylacteries is awesome. But since I pretty much want to always store them, is there way it could automatically be done. Like looming turning thread into cloth.
Bug: No one will pick up refuse. Anywhere. Inside. Outside. Granted, most of it gets back up by itself...but the few things I manage to butcher...no one will move the bones. Also, no one wants to move dead warlocks to the corpse stockpile.
Post by: Meph on January 07, 2014, 02:02:53 am
Any chance of a light source being made from phylacteries?No. lightsources are only decoration and have no gameplay effect, so I decided on empty hourglasses. Yes, it would make sense to use those with souls in them, but thats too expensive.
the werebeast lairs a good idea,but it should be for prisoners and warlocks only,the warlocks would get a bonus to physical attributes but lose the ability to caste higher level spells.I would probably do a werebeast caste of warlocks. The problem is that werebeasts use transformations, drop their gear and fully heal every month. ^^
Are map wide spells possible? Like could warlocks summon randomized evil weather to assault the entire map. Seems like a good high risk/high reward spell. When used correctly it could wipe out an entire siege! When used correctly it could still wipe out your fortress. Contaminates everywhere, barefoot warlocks die.There is already a fort-wide slay all invaders in the grand convocation. I cant do weather though... tried it, doesnt work.
I think you could use alchemy as a research system. And may be as an ingredient to perform litual to learn spell (something like make the circle of iron salt around you ,drink the fluid from oak sapling and raise your hand to accept the power of the universe :P)Thats what I was going for, but I have no clear ideas yet as to what parts onluck which parts and so forth. ;)
If you really want TES Oblivion stuff, there may be stuff in Nchardahrk that can help speed the process. Take what you want.Thank you. I just like the thought of hiding a few easter eggs here and there.
Wow, dark pact is amazingly fun. 5 times in a row before it crashed. Slade platemail. Slade whip. Bifrost flail of reaper. Bifrost runerobe. Magma chainaxe. Then I picked an item that didn't exist. Returning from the 'pick another item' screen it froze.Thanks for this long report. I can certainly add AUTOMATIC to soul storage, and add a manual blood-wine feeding for vampires. Ring Wraith leader of skeleton army: Yeah, why not. The refuse is probably in your orders "dwarves ignore refuse". Because I know that it works in my test forts, and I couldnt influence the AI anyway.
Edit: I have just made it through year one. I genned a world 150 years old. My civ had several domesticed animals at embark. Evil animals...except for Aurachocs Cows. The bone wolves I bought (which were apparantly opposed to life) ate them. Then they rose up and spent the entire next year chasing the living one.
A vampire ate one of my warlocks. I'm assuming strategic placement of bloodwine stockpiles is the only way to get them to choose wine over sleepers.
Since I embarked on a terrifying biome, it's slightly more difficult to get souls. Things keep re-animating before I can get to them. In other news, my fisher-ghouls are busy creating a massive army of mussel shells to protect the dungeon.
The orcs, taiga orcs, and goblins keep insisting on trying to trade with me. The wagons make it to my depot but the guards make a nuisance of themselves the entire time killing my uncontrolled undead.
Question: I like the theme of the military, but it has made it...dangerous to use until I have a room set up for the warlock. Perhaps, there could be just one more army group, but it can only be led by a ghoul or skeleton. Only requirement is a tomb. And since they are ghouls and skeletons, they wont get overly upset when you dont get around to it for a while. The 9 Ring Wraiths kind of theme.
Second Question: Storing souls into phylacteries is awesome. But since I pretty much want to always store them, is there way it could automatically be done. Like looming turning thread into cloth.
Bug: No one will pick up refuse. Anywhere. Inside. Outside. Granted, most of it gets back up by itself...but the few things I manage to butcher...no one will move the bones. Also, no one wants to move dead warlocks to the corpse stockpile.
On the caravans: I wish I could spawn them specifically without guards, but thats not possible. I dont know exactly how to handle traders yet.
Post by: razorback on January 07, 2014, 05:18:27 am
I really like the 'specialist' squads, the harbinger one seems also quite cool but maybe i don't really get the purpose rather than making a quick and large civilian army.
i would appreciate if appart from the existing ones, you could also just make infinite common seargents wich will be then propper armed melee and ranged skeleton squads or such...
Post by: Meph on January 07, 2014, 05:21:00 am
On the squads:How would that be different from dwarves, orcs or kobolds?
I really like the 'specialist' squads, the harbinger one seems also quite cool but maybe i don't really get the purpose rather than making a quick and large civilian army.
i would appreciate if appart from the existing ones, you could also just make infinite common sergeants wich will be then propper armed melee and ranged skeleton squads or such...
Post by: mahrgell on January 07, 2014, 12:05:38 pm
Its a limitation that I didnt think of. Warlocks use magical weapons which use ammo as well. I dont know. :-\ Maybe no ranged weapons at all? ^^ Or ranged weapons that are actually meele weapons that add an interaction to shoot?Yeah, i think daggers adding some ranged spells would be fine. Is there some way to make those weapons get used up? either based on usage (can cast 50 times) or on time(lasts 30 days). If it is on time, it would be nice, if there was a way to store them without counting for that time. Actually the same way as it happens with food. While stored in a barrel it does not wither, but if it is lying around (or carried around) it starts to wither away.
Meph, what's about what i proposed here for the squads? Because as i said before, I would love to keep the system you had explained until now, just the ranged combat is a problem ^^
Post by: Meph on January 07, 2014, 01:04:20 pm
Post by: razorback on January 07, 2014, 01:10:50 pm
2 skeletonlords with each 50 (or so), for one melee and one ranged 'army'
Quote
How would that be different from dwarves, orcs or kobolds?
i think warlocks are enough differerent from other races anyway ;)
Edit:
witchking mentioned: harbinger gets a 9 slot squad. 8)
Post by: Meph on January 07, 2014, 01:23:42 pm
A lot of interactions today. Based on Roses "The Third Age" spell learning, I started adding reactions to the libraries, using alchemical reagents to them. Each library section will train a different spell type, with the center library being responsible for writing books and buildmats for the other libraries. The libraries themselves will unlock the "High-Ritual" buildings, which give powerful effects, some of them fortress wide.
In the end it should look like this:
- Necromancers arrive and build a dungeon.
- Kill wildlife, resurrect more and more skeletons.
- Attract ambushes and sieges, which are turned into more ghouls and skeletons.
- In the meantime stripmine the ore, gather and shred all the plants, grind all the gems to dust and fell all the trees. Warlocks strip the land bare, destroying everything just to get alchemical reagents.
- Libraries are set up, and the reagents are used to develope new spells.
- When all libraries are set up, Warlocks get access to their best arsenal of workshops, like the Fleshsmith, the Darkpact, the Grand Convocations, the Eternal Rose and the Abyss.
One of these is finished already, the Eternal Rose. Its an odd building, but I liked the idea.
(http://i.imgur.com/0z6leb5.png)
Post by: Isngrim on January 07, 2014, 03:30:16 pm
On the caravans: I wish I could spawn them specifically without guards, but thats not possible. I dont know exactly how to handle traders yet.the merchant_bodyguards token controls if the caravans have bodyguards i think.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 07, 2014, 03:39:17 pm
Post by: DoX on January 07, 2014, 09:42:00 pm
It'd make sense if it was used in some part when you get to all that Eldritch God stuff. Like, a warlock has to enter the eternal sleep to contact the deep gods, and then dies so the God can awaken.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 07, 2014, 10:17:02 pm
The Eternal Rose is looking really cool Meph.
It'd make sense if it was used in some part when you get to all that Eldritch God stuff. Like, a warlock has to enter the eternal sleep to contact the deep gods, and then dies so the God can awaken.
could it be made so only one with the ranks of Death, War, Famine, or Plague could use that reaction? Perhaps have it so that their stats effect the final reaction?
Post by: Meph on January 08, 2014, 02:51:20 am
No, impossible. ^^The Eternal Rose is looking really cool Meph.
It'd make sense if it was used in some part when you get to all that Eldritch God stuff. Like, a warlock has to enter the eternal sleep to contact the deep gods, and then dies so the God can awaken.
could it be made so only one with the ranks of Death, War, Famine, or Plague could use that reaction? Perhaps have it so that their stats effect the final reaction?
I also cant set which caste can be a soldier, which is a pain. I can do that with nobles, but anyone can be a soldier in any squad... otherwise I would have gladly done massive skeleton squads and mage-squads separatly, but I cant.
Quote
the merchant_bodyguards token controls if the caravans have bodyguards i think.Yes , I know. ;) But thats entity specific, not reaction specific. I cant say: "Now bring me elves without bodyguards", if they usually arrive with bodyguards. If I do remove the bodyguards, they will arrive without them even if you play orcs or kobolds or dwarves. So no, again, something I sadly cant do.
I have to figure out what exactly is needed for merchants to leave... because I would give this to all good races automaticall when they come near warlocks, that way you cant trade with them. But you can still spawn them and have them run to your depot, walking towards their doom.
Quote
t'd make sense if it was used in some part when you get to all that Eldritch God stuff. Like, a warlock has to enter the eternal sleep to contact the deep gods, and then dies so the God can awaken.Oh, I like that. :)
Post by: shadowclasper on January 08, 2014, 02:54:20 am
Post by: mahrgell on January 08, 2014, 02:56:12 am
About the changes that would have affect crossraces. Why not change the launcher so you can choose which race to play (with a drowdown) Then depending on that choice, certain adjustments could be made. So if you select warlocks you do not only make them palyable (and disable the others) but also disable elven guards.
Problem is, that multiple races reclaims would be impossible that way :(
Post by: Meph on January 08, 2014, 02:57:50 am
And yes, multiple race worlds should be still possible. Otherwise I would have written 4 different Dwarf Fortress.exe, 4 different sets of raws (lol, for each race), and 4 different embark texts, so your Warlocks dont "Strike the Earth".
Post by: Gamerlord on January 08, 2014, 03:06:46 am
Post by: Meph on January 08, 2014, 03:25:31 am
Post by: Gamerlord on January 08, 2014, 03:26:04 am
Post by: AshFire on January 08, 2014, 07:43:25 am
I think there should be at least 10% chance to spawn hostile demon during the process. That represents demons using loopholes in pacts to summon themselves into your tower.
Post by: Meph on January 08, 2014, 07:52:31 am
But no, in the end it will have a small chance for the wish, a small chance for something bad, and of course a cost to pay in the first place. I just put it in, because I wanted to know if it crashes for other people as well.
Post by: Buel on January 08, 2014, 10:34:06 am
Post by: Vabalokis on January 08, 2014, 10:37:16 am
Hey, having a little trouble with the mod. Warlocks are not playable civilization for me, and I cannot find masterwork.exe sorry for my ignorance!
I think you just have to start dwarffortress.exe and play.
Post by: Buel on January 08, 2014, 10:38:02 am
Post by: Meph on January 08, 2014, 11:03:31 am
If anyone checks my brower history for today, they will be very confused. Demon summoning and deomonology, as well as how to get visas for ghana and gambia. Apparently its easier to summon satan than getting a visa to Ghana. Anyway, I wanted to base some rituals on real life stuff, but so far its difficult to translate into DF. But I came up with a new building design that I like a lot:
(http://i.imgur.com/KAVK1aO.png)
Try reading it backwards. Or upside down. Or both. Its a text-based magic square palindrome, which was used in magic and religion a lot.
Tomorrow I will be going around to some consulates with my new passport I got today, so probably not much time for modding.
Post by: Buel on January 08, 2014, 11:09:16 am
Post by: Meph on January 08, 2014, 11:18:29 am
Post by: Buel on January 08, 2014, 11:26:32 am
Post by: Meph on January 08, 2014, 11:27:47 am
Post by: Buel on January 08, 2014, 11:31:27 am
Post by: Meph on January 08, 2014, 11:37:30 am
Remember, its an Alpha version. ;)
Post by: Buel on January 08, 2014, 11:41:38 am
Post by: Meph on January 08, 2014, 12:58:47 pm
Code: [Select]
[CREATURE:NIGHTMARE]
[CREATURE:BALOR_DETAILED] => balrog
[CREATURE:MANTICORE]
[CREATURE:WRAITH_VILE_PLAGUE]
[CREATURE:GARGOYLE_WINGED_BLACK_MARBLE]
[CREATURE:HELLHOUND]
[CREATURE:BIRD_CROW] => possible vermin hunter
[CREATURE:BIRD_RAVEN] => possible vermin hunter
[CREATURE:BIRD_VULTURE] => possible vermin hunter
[CREATURE:BUGBAT] => possible vermin hunter
[CREATURE:GRAVE_CAT] => possible vermin hunter
[CREATURE:RAVEN_GHOUL] => possible vermin hunter
[CREATURE:CROW_GHOUL] => possible vermin hunter
[CREATURE:GARGOYLE]
[CREATURE:BONE_GOLEM]
[CREATURE:BLOOD_GOAT] => can be milked for blood
[CREATURE:BLOODBEAST]
[CREATURE:BLOOD_ELEMENTAL]
[CREATURE:NIGHTCLOAK] => evil bat thing, only wings and mouth with teeth
[CREATURE:FROZEN_SKULL]
[CREATURE:BURNING_SKULL]
[CREATURE:DEVILKIN] => classical tiny devil with horns and wings
[CREATURE:ARMORMAN] => animated armor
[CREATURE:DEEP_ONE] => innsmouth citizens lovecraftian
[CREATURE:ELEMENTMAN_EMERALD]
[CREATURE:ELEMENTMAN_DIAMOND]
[CREATURE:ELEMENTMAN_RUBY]
[CREATURE:ELEMENTMAN_SAPPHIRE]
[CREATURE:CERBERUS]
[CREATURE:BAT_GIANT_BLIGHT]
[CREATURE:SHYLVIC_TRANSPARENT] => wraith ghost
[CREATURE:MEPHIT] => goofy little elemtental pets
[CREATURE:WRAITH_VAPOROUS_BLOOD]
[CREATURE:BEAST_SHADOW]
[CREATURE:BEAST_CINDER]
[CREATURE:GOLEM_GARGANTUAN_BONE]
[CREATURE:HIEROPHANT_SINISTER] => fallen priest/healer
[CREATURE:MASTIFF_FERAL_BONE]
[CREATURE:BARGHEST]
[CREATURE:BARGHEST_HULKING_BLACK]
[CREATURE:HOLISTIC_SPAWN] => if you wont know them, you need to see syrupleaf lets play.
[CREATURE:DRYAD_BLOOD] => evil blood tree sprite
[CREATURE:DRYAD_ROTTING_DEADWOOD] => evil undead tree sprite
[CREATURE:NYAD_SICKLY_BLIGHTWATER] => evil undead water sprite
[CREATURE:NYAD_BLOOD] => evil blood water sprite
[CREATURE:GARGOYLE_BLACK_MARBLE]
[CREATURE:VINE_WORMWOOD] => carnivorous plants
[CREATURE:VINE_BLOOD] => carnivorous plants
[CREATURE:MOTH_DUSKY_SCYTHEWING]
[CREATURE:SEORDMAOR_SCALY] => scaled black panther demons
[CREATURE:WORM_GRAVE]
[CREATURE:SHADOWEAVER] => intelligent female demon
[CREATURE:HOUND_SHADOW] => shadow dog demon
[CREATURE:GHAST_ICY_BLUE] => ice demon
[CREATURE:BEAK_DOG]
[CREATURE:WOLF_BONE]
[CREATURE:GRIMELING]
[CREATURE:BLENDEC_FOUL]
[CREATURE:HARPY]
[CREATURE:ELEMENTMAN_MAGMA]
[CREATURE:SOGGOTH] => special. Multiply unendingly.
[CREATURE:BROOD] => special. gives birth to new civ-members. Broodmother.
Post by: Teneb on January 08, 2014, 01:11:11 pm
Post by: shadowclasper on January 08, 2014, 02:03:35 pm
Buel: I dont even.... You did download the alpha, unpacked the 7-zip, and then ran the Dwarf Fortress.exe ? Because thats how you do it.
If anyone checks my brower history for today, they will be very confused. Demon summoning and deomonology, as well as how to get visas for ghana and gambia. Apparently its easier to summon satan than getting a visa to Ghana. Anyway, I wanted to base some rituals on real life stuff, but so far its difficult to translate into DF. But I came up with a new building design that I like a lot:
(http://i.imgur.com/KAVK1aO.png)
Try reading it backwards. Or upside down. Or both. Its a text-based magic square palindrome, which was used in magic and religion a lot.
Tomorrow I will be going around to some consulates with my new passport I got today, so probably not much time for modding.
There's a better one I recall that even works diagonally... damn'd if I can remember it though.
How would brood work? Would it create Ghouls? Or new Warlocks? Perhaps it creates something that drops all the materials needed to revive a warlock when revived instead? A kind of vile flesh golem thing? After all, the entire point of the fortress is that you aren't getting any new warlocks after the first two migrant waves right?
edit: Also, the total number of warlocks should probably never exceed 10-20. You get 3-5 starting ones on average. Plus your only two migrant waves are half warlocks, half skeleton/ghouls?
Alternatively those are ALL warlocks I guess... but I think warlocks should be a super precious commodity, with magic far exceeding what the other races can pull off, and hideously hard to kill once they reach higher levels and knowledge. Hell, maybe have it so that you only start with ONE real Warlock, and the rest are 'Acolytes' or something. A transformation system as it were? Like how dwarven mages all start as the Arcane Dwarf Caste but turn into different kinds of entities by transformation? Same deal.
You could also make it so that you have 4 'rider' squads. These squads can only be filled by one of your 4 'riders' who are warlocks who undergo a special transformation into an aspect of the greater powers of the End. You can only have 1 of each type of rider, the same way you can only have one Lich, Arcane Support, etc. for Dwarves? That way having 4 squad slots that can only be filled by riders won't end up with 4 famines, or 4 deaths.
Basically, the idea is the pecking order goes (from lowest to highest)
Zombies (souless automatons)
Skeletons (souls still intact, but slaves without flesh. Presumably can be given free will but most of the time they don't have it.)
Ghouls (bodies still in tact and presumably a modicum of free will, if not entirely so, but their nature warped by torture or birth)
Acolytes? (Just climbing the ladder of power. They have some skill magically, but their chief purpose is to handle the experiments and stuff and the more dangerous work for their warlock master)
Warlocks (Technically the top of the chain, but in terms of power they sit at second best. Able to learn a massive number of spells. You gain some control over what spells they'll cast in particular through their weapon and ammo types though. Lots of their spells are probably long range constantly active auras however to boost the abilities of their minions)
Riders (The highest powered guys. They don't rule your dungeon, but they are created by warlocks undergoing specialized rituals that link them to one of the primal forces of Entropy. They are pretty much megabeasts in power level. Their very presence should cause in the living enough bad thoughts to drive them insane).
Also, I remember an idea I pitched before about different grades of minions like skeletons and stuff? I know that you can't create them out right at different skill levels? But could you have transformations that lead to different skill caps?
So you start off with 'average' skeletons. Whatever their skill of choice (whether it be in crafting, whatever) it's average. They're competent in whatever job you put them in. But that's all. A higher level transformation turns them into 'expert' skeletons (this would apply to military as well). The final level transformation turns them into 'Legendary' Skeletons.
Finally, you could have something that transformed skeletons down to basic skeletons without any specialization. This is a late game thing. You could probably get it early on in a sort of 3 for 1 deal. Requires 3 skeletons to be present for it. Kills all 3 (breaking them down for parts) and produces 1 blank slate skeleton.
The idea is that we're reinforcing that skeletons are, ultimately. Tools. They're not citizens. They don't have hopes and dreams. Any station they hold is purely by their usefulness, nothing more. They can't gain skills. They have to be 'improved' like any tool would be. When they're not needed, they're broken down for parts and then shipped off.
Also, I'd argue that all new 'building' patterns for the Warlocks should probably be gained by sending expeditions to study ruins, torturing/dissecting prisoners, or by research in the libraries (all libraries would have a chance of instead of teaching the warlock a new skill, they'd get a blueprint for a new building. Also a library section, perhaps the central one, called the 'Archive' where spells and scrolls that have been learned in one of the libraries can be copied out for speedier teaching of other warlocks would be pretty cool). Maybe raiding rival warlocks for their knowledge would be another thing. I imagine all warlocks are kinda backstabby sons of bitches. They are 'unified' but their morality would probably have treason as 'required' rather than as 'unthinkable' or the like.
Given what I know of what can be done by modding (thanks to what you've said before Melph and what I've read is done with the other races), I think this would help give the Skeletons a much more 'tool' like feel to them. Things to be upgraded or disassembled as needed. No actual skill growth, even for military skeletons.
Post by: Meph on January 08, 2014, 02:20:50 pm
Shoggoths: Yeah, they would kill FPS. I just sorted them out, because its lovecraft. I dont think I will use them.
Post by: Buel on January 08, 2014, 03:01:18 pm
Post by: Meph on January 08, 2014, 03:25:43 pm
2. That is already done. You can capture invaders and turn them into ghouls, which work for you.
Post by: moseythepirate on January 08, 2014, 03:51:10 pm
Two random idea's for warlock tower. 1. A randomly generated race or races of adventurers attempt to raid the fort (dungeon.) When you've accumulated enough wealth. Depending on the wealth, they may bring mounts, carry bows etc. 2. (Dunno if its implemented) Creatures turned into zombies, like antmen, and other two legged creatures could possibly join the work force? Just ideas some random ideas I had!
I think there's a good idea in 1). A neutral civ, named "adventurers" or some such, consisting of lots of different races (which can be done, right? I think?), that is a hostile ambushy seige-y race to the warlocks, and doesn't trade to the others. Would it be possible to give them small numbers but high skills and good equipment? I see them being a nice challenge for your tower to rebuff, maybe as a late-ish game thing. Just a thought.
Post by: Meph on January 08, 2014, 03:54:05 pm
Post by: shadowclasper on January 08, 2014, 04:20:32 pm
Post by: Meph on January 08, 2014, 04:49:32 pm
One new building today, a new design, a list of creatures that will most likely be added as pets, summonings and magical constructs, and background work done on Alchemy and Spells.
The new building: The Hoardmaster. A drow that buys your stuff and sells you souls. Edit: "Its an item dump, to get rid of the weapons and armors from sieges, and make something useful for you of it. The souls you can spend at the Demonic Attorney, which I will hopefully do tomorrow. The rewards will be more interesting, it wont be just items, but more in form of creatures."
(http://i.imgur.com/ldQ8Im9.png)
The new design: A magic square in latin. Used for magic spell in the High-Ritual part.
(http://i.imgur.com/KAVK1aO.png)
And the list of creatures:
Code: [Select]
[CREATURE:NIGHTMARE]
[CREATURE:BALOR_DETAILED] => balrog
[CREATURE:MANTICORE]
[CREATURE:WRAITH_VILE_PLAGUE]
[CREATURE:GARGOYLE_WINGED_BLACK_MARBLE]
[CREATURE:HELLHOUND]
[CREATURE:BIRD_CROW] => possible vermin hunter
[CREATURE:BIRD_RAVEN] => possible vermin hunter
[CREATURE:BIRD_VULTURE] => possible vermin hunter
[CREATURE:BUGBAT] => possible vermin hunter
[CREATURE:GRAVE_CAT] => possible vermin hunter
[CREATURE:RAVEN_GHOUL] => possible vermin hunter
[CREATURE:CROW_GHOUL] => possible vermin hunter
[CREATURE:GARGOYLE]
[CREATURE:BONE_GOLEM]
[CREATURE:BLOOD_GOAT] => can be milked for blood
[CREATURE:BLOODBEAST]
[CREATURE:BLOOD_ELEMENTAL]
[CREATURE:NIGHTCLOAK] => evil bat thing, only wings and mouth with teeth
[CREATURE:FROZEN_SKULL]
[CREATURE:BURNING_SKULL]
[CREATURE:DEVILKIN] => classical tiny devil with horns and wings
[CREATURE:ARMORMAN] => animated armor
[CREATURE:DEEP_ONE] => innsmouth citizens lovecraftian
[CREATURE:ELEMENTMAN_EMERALD]
[CREATURE:ELEMENTMAN_DIAMOND]
[CREATURE:ELEMENTMAN_RUBY]
[CREATURE:ELEMENTMAN_SAPPHIRE]
[CREATURE:CERBERUS]
[CREATURE:BAT_GIANT_BLIGHT]
[CREATURE:SHYLVIC_TRANSPARENT] => wraith ghost
[CREATURE:MEPHIT] => goofy little elemtental pets
[CREATURE:WRAITH_VAPOROUS_BLOOD]
[CREATURE:BEAST_SHADOW]
[CREATURE:BEAST_CINDER]
[CREATURE:GOLEM_GARGANTUAN_BONE]
[CREATURE:HIEROPHANT_SINISTER] => fallen priest/healer
[CREATURE:MASTIFF_FERAL_BONE]
[CREATURE:BARGHEST]
[CREATURE:BARGHEST_HULKING_BLACK]
[CREATURE:HOLISTIC_SPAWN] => if you wont know them, you need to see syrupleaf lets play.
[CREATURE:DRYAD_BLOOD] => evil blood tree sprite
[CREATURE:DRYAD_ROTTING_DEADWOOD] => evil undead tree sprite
[CREATURE:NYAD_SICKLY_BLIGHTWATER] => evil undead water sprite
[CREATURE:NYAD_BLOOD] => evil blood water sprite
[CREATURE:GARGOYLE_BLACK_MARBLE]
[CREATURE:VINE_WORMWOOD] => carnivorous plants
[CREATURE:VINE_BLOOD] => carnivorous plants
[CREATURE:MOTH_DUSKY_SCYTHEWING]
[CREATURE:SEORDMAOR_SCALY] => scaled black panther demons
[CREATURE:WORM_GRAVE]
[CREATURE:SHADOWEAVER] => intelligent female demon
[CREATURE:HOUND_SHADOW] => shadow dog demon
[CREATURE:GHAST_ICY_BLUE] => ice demon
[CREATURE:BEAK_DOG]
[CREATURE:WOLF_BONE]
[CREATURE:GRIMELING]
[CREATURE:BLENDEC_FOUL]
[CREATURE:HARPY]
[CREATURE:ELEMENTMAN_MAGMA]
[CREATURE:SOGGOTH] => special. Multiply unendingly. Maybe FPS death...
[CREATURE:BROOD] => special. gives birth to new civ-members. Broodmother. Might breed ghouls.
Post by: Gamerlord on January 08, 2014, 04:50:14 pm
Post by: Meph on January 08, 2014, 04:54:52 pm
Post by: Gamerlord on January 08, 2014, 04:55:58 pm
Post by: shadowclasper on January 08, 2014, 05:19:14 pm
What if instead warlocks had a way of extracting the dregs and bits of soul that cling to objects that were special to someone or that effort went into making? Or that someone died holding? (which pretty much means all objects). Plants and animals would have much weaker souls, but they could also be broken down and their 'soul stuff' extracted.
Get enough of this soul stuff together, and you produce a shiny new soul to fuel warlock reactions?
Another way to think of it is that everything in the world has a small spirit in it. The whole 'kami' theory. They're nothing compared to the souls of living beings or vast and powerful entities, but when you gather enough of them together you can produce a new soul?
Production of them I guess could work the same way as producing orichalcum? Dump so many things into the reaction to be rendered down for their base 'soul stuff' and then combined into a soul? It feels more warlocky to squeeze every last bit of worth from worthless objects, rather than simply trading them to 'lesser' beings in return for their souls which could so easily be taken with or without their consent?
Post by: Kaos on January 08, 2014, 06:47:37 pm
Also expanding on the idea of the hoard-master to dump invader items in exchange for souls, maybe instead of giving the soul item directly it spawns a living creature that you can kill to get the soul?
Also expanding on the idea of the previous post and taking into consideration that some items that are spawned by ether and then wither away after a while and the problem of masterwork items getting destroyed and causing happiness hit to the warlock who made it, can't masterwork ethereal items be used in a reaction in a workshop were they would be gone and you get a soul back? you could let them wither away and get the happiness penalty or safely extract a soul from them avoiding the penalty?
Post by: DoX on January 08, 2014, 07:02:48 pm
How about a Sloth Demon? You'd literally toss batches of metal, gems, leather, what have you into his gaping maw and he'd spit out souls, which you'd then catch with hourglasses. Or a demon of greed, who hordes trinkets and shiny items and pays you in souls? Like a black market devil, selling you back sacrificed souls?
Or even just a kind of evil wishing well, a portal into the underworld that you throw "refuse", that it weapons and gems and things Warlocks don't use, and it forces souls out?
Or a Kobold catcher!
Ah haha! Like a magical snare trap you set up! You put in armor, or gems, or coins. The more valuable, the higher chance you'll catch a Kobold thief, who you can then sacrifice for a soul! You wouldn't even need to use an actual Kob unit, you can just have it as a tool item, "Trapped Kobold Thief".
Post by: shadowclasper on January 08, 2014, 08:58:05 pm
The Flesh Mongers or Soul Traders or whatever. They only carry with them souls, phylacteries, some warlock building blue prints, spell types, and perhaps some other stuff?
The idea would be that while MANY warlocks do not trade, they set up their towers and dungeons and seclude themselves, the soul traders bring with them slaves, souls, demonic contracts, pets, and things that this shadowy, nomadic, gypsy like order of monsters and outcastes even the warlocks sorta look down on (turning our noble path towards pure PROFIT! Despicable!)
This is the only kind of warlock trade I could see happening. The Flesh Circus would be the trade depot of choice. Full of sacrificial victims, flesh beast like monsters, demons, and souls. Hell, they might not have souls for trade, they just bring slaves to be sacrificed for their souls. Easier, cheaper way of keeping souls fresh unlike phylacteries?
The Flesh Circus would probably move between all the factions who see slavery as okay. But they'd be pretty much the only trade partners of the warlocks.
They might also act as the only way warlocks REALLY communicate with one another. These sorta outcaste warlocks bring messages back and forth? Like all warlocks they pledge allegiance to the High Sorcerer/King type, but unlike other warlocks, they have no desire to climb the ladders of power, either due to lacking skill, or due to lacking ambition enough for it. As such, all other warlocks look upon the Flesh Circus as weird outcastes. Useful for their purposes, but not something you'd go out of your way to help.
edit: Also, had an idea. Ritual circles. They're workshops that are incredibly quick to build, require someone of warlock caste to work (or perhaps just require a warlock's weapon type tool?), and are basically big 'LoS' spell effects. If they could somehow decay that'd be even better. (perhaps they require a soul to build which will decay and thus destroy the ritual circle in time?) The idea is players can set them up super quick in the middle of a battle to cause crazy things to happen. Your warlocks would set up such ritual circles well behind the massive screen of 100 skeletons and ghouls, and activate, for example, a massive evil rain.
Post by: Kaos on January 08, 2014, 09:57:48 pm
Post by: shadowclasper on January 08, 2014, 11:02:19 pm
edit: Also thought for the Flesh Circus and for warlocks in general. What about other night creatures? They seem like natural allies/pets/slaves for the Warlocks? or at least something they'd cultivate for their body parts.
Also it seems like a very warlocky thing to release a horde of were beasts and then gather them all back up. It'd be great to do something like cursing people into werebeasts, keeping them in cages or on chains to be food for vampires, and also to just, release, upon hapless enemies. Then use a mass sleep spell to capture them all easily again. Basically, the idea is that we should have more things to do with captured people than just turn them into ghouls. What about other experiments, ways to upgrade the efficacy of poisons and spells? Test subjects basically. They might even be a caste created by a torture chamber reaction that basically turns them into pets like changelings or something.
edit2: Also slave workshops using demons to produce incredibly powerful gear in return for souls.
Post by: Meph on January 09, 2014, 02:28:27 am
Flesh Circus: No. I cant add more races like that. I want to remove some, before I add more. Maybe, just maybe I will change the dwarven Legion to a good aligned mercenary/adventurer type, and the fleshcircus idea as a evil aligned mercenary horde.
Quote
The Flesh Mongers or Soul Traders or whatever. They only carry with them souls, phylacteries, some warlock building blue prints, spell types, and perhaps some other stuff?I can simply make Warlocks have pull animals, no active seasons, and you call the traders like you call gnomish traders in dwarf mode. And dwarves, orcs and kobolds would only get Warlock sieges, when you do something that attracts their attention. :) (that would also fix the issue with people that say: Warlock too overpowered, I play without them.)
Slave Workshops with demons giving stuff for souls: Already planned, minus the slave part. They are traders, they take souls for stuff. No slavery involved.
Quote
I'd really like to be able to purchase/order the warlock-exclusive pets somehowThis is already half done. I just posted yesterday about the creatures I want to spawn. The first set is now in the Demonic Attorney, buyable with souls. At embark you still wont have any creatures (maybe a few odd ones), but all others you have to constructs or buy for souls.
Quote
another idea for dumping items would be to just shred them like warlocks do with everything else? steel warhammer gets shredded into steel powder or whatever steel bars get shredded into, and then it's used as reagents for spells, like everything else...That makes sense. :) I dont have an bar/metal shredder atm, just rock/ore, but maybe I will do one more. Who knows. It could include items made of metal.
Quote
Ritual circles. They're workshops that are incredibly quick to build, require someone of warlock caste to work (or perhaps just require a warlock's weapon type tool?), and are basically big 'LoS' spell effectsNot possible. Or better: Perfectly possible, but the civilians would probably flee from the enemy, and the soldiers dont do jobs, so you dont have anyone to activate it. Same problem that siege engines have in normal DF.
Quote
Also expanding on the idea of the hoard-master to dump invader items in exchange for souls, maybe instead of giving the soul item directly it spawns a living creature that you can kill to get the soul?That would also mean you get free scouts, bones, skulls, meat and organs. A bit much.
Quote
Like a black market devil, selling you back sacrificed souls?I never heard about demons GIVING people souls for material goods. Its the other way around. ;)
Quote
can't masterwork ethereal items be used in a reaction in a workshopI cant say which quality an item has to have. Would be awesome if I could, but I cant. ^^
Quote
Honestly, I agree with the previous sentiments. Warlocks shouldn't trade, even with the Drow. A demon? Maybe. Trading doesn't seem to be a good word for it.I do like those ideas. In general I wanted to go for something that lets you get rid of unwanted items that Warlocks dont need, and gives you back something you do need. Souls. I almost made that guy be a Corpse-Trader, buying totems, bones, coffins, meat, corpses and give you back coins... but what should you do with coins?
How about a Sloth Demon? You'd literally toss batches of metal, gems, leather, what have you into his gaping maw and he'd spit out souls, which you'd then catch with hourglasses. Or a demon of greed, who hordes trinkets and shiny items and pays you in souls? Like a black market devil, selling you back sacrificed souls?
Or even just a kind of evil wishing well, a portal into the underworld that you throw "refuse", that it weapons and gems and things Warlocks don't use, and it forces souls out?
Or a Kobold catcher!
The kobold catcher idea sounds nice. I could make it outside only, but it would be odd with Warlocks actually working on it to spawn kobolds. ^^
Cursing someone into a werebeast is something I like a lot. Make sieges take themselves apart. :)
Post by: Gamerlord on January 09, 2014, 02:31:26 am
Post by: Meph on January 09, 2014, 02:32:35 am
Post by: Gamerlord on January 09, 2014, 02:34:37 am
Post by: zlurker on January 09, 2014, 03:50:14 am
Post by: shadowclasper on January 09, 2014, 03:57:00 am
Have the "Legion of Light" to replace the Dwarven legion as a general 'good guy' mercenary faction.
Have the "Flesh Circus" for the evil counterpart.
Remove the evil clone races and put them as a single faction of "Outcastes" do a similar thing for good versions of evil races I guess. "Uncorrupted" perhaps?
Make sure for balance reasons trade is fairly equal between the 2 sides.
Dwarves, Humans, Elves, Drow, Gnomes on one side.
Goblins, Orcs, Something, Something, Warlocks on the other.
So total trade alliances would be:
Good Guys:
Dwarves, Humans, Elves, Drow? And Gnomes, plus the 'Uncorrupted' perhaps in trade partnerships.
The Legion of Light as the mercenaries.
Bad Guys:
Goblins, Orcs, Warlocks, two others.
The Flesh Circus as the mercenaries.
Also perhaps rather than having 'Uncorrupted' so there's a perfect counter part. Just make one of the evil races the Corsairs or the Lawless. A bunch of cutthroats drawn from every single race into a piratical anything goes faction on the high seas?
Legion of Light could also potentially draw from race members of the 'evil' factions, as rare 'uncorrupted' members and adventurers who have seen the errors of their race, etc.etc.
Anyway. I'd just get rid of the mirrors and replace them with something else entirely.
Other ideas: The Deepborn, weird elemental cthulubeasts who are the counterparts to the drow. And there's those reaver guys who'd make excellent counterparts to either elves or gnomes.
That's my take on it at least.
Post by: Dwarf_Eater on January 09, 2014, 04:37:41 am
http://ebookee.org/Aleister-Crowley-Books_1744876.html
Books of Aleister Crowley. I don't remember which exactly but one of them should have excactly described ritual of demon summoning (along with description of every one of them)
Aaand about WH
some fancy eyecandy stuff:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/landingArmy.jsp?catId=cat440166a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Chaos
Last ones are my favourites. It's about WH, but it's just unlimited idea works ^^
http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/gallery-search.jsp?sort1=5
http://www.lexicanum.com/
Post by: Talvara on January 09, 2014, 05:29:25 am
now I'm just going a bit overboard here... but lets say these bone gardens don't sound completely silly. would it be possible to have the gardens have a chance to also contain a weapon? lets say you make 20 bone gardens ready to be placed and you inspect the lot of them and find that 2 of them have spears! so you place them near an entrance and when invaders come close, pull the lever associated with the 2 'spear' bone gardens and voila! instant weaklings protecting your front door... until they wander off or are smashed into dust! (I'm guessing since they wont be military they might just run away? or does no fear counteract that?)
edit: naturally they'd cost the same or more as it would to raise an active skeleton, Think of bone gardens as an apple for a rainy day.
Post by: jaxy15 on January 09, 2014, 07:09:43 am
Post by: Meph on January 09, 2014, 07:14:30 am
Quote
The Demonic Attorney buys souls in exchange for favors from the underworld. You can buy poisons for 1 soul, rare shrooms and wood for 2 souls, vermin-hunters for 3 souls, blood goats for 5, hounds and nightmares for 10, a shadow hound for 15, fell cinder or shadow beasts for 25 spouls.
Poisons can be applied to any arrows you have.
Devilkin are small, flying devils that hunt vermin.
Nightcloaks are bat-like demons that hunt vermin.
Blood Goats are domestic animals that can be milked for blood.
Hellhounds, Cerberus and Nightmares are fire-breathing guard animals.
Shadow Hounds are strong fighters and can be war-trained.
Shadow Beasts and Cinder Beasts are the best fighters you can buy from this workshop.
Special items are the Eternal Rose for 50 souls, which unlocks the High-Ritual Workshop: Eternal Rose, and the Tome of Sator for 100 souls, which unlocks the High-Ritual Workshop: Square of Sator. Both can be created by your own research in the libraries as well.
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 09, 2014, 07:41:09 am
Post by: Gamerlord on January 09, 2014, 07:43:59 am
What's the demonic attorney gonna do? Is it like, gonna summon an undead phoenix?Do we have phoenixes in Masterwork?
Post by: Meph on January 09, 2014, 08:03:11 am
Actually, why not make attack spell circles grant interactions that are not restricted by LINE_OF_SIGHT? That should allow you to have a civilian warlock inside casting spells on enemies while the soldiers outside do the fighting.I do plan on those for the late game. but its fort wide than.
Post by: jaxy15 on January 09, 2014, 08:12:36 am
If we don't, we should.What's the demonic attorney gonna do? Is it like, gonna summon an undead phoenix?Do we have phoenixes in Masterwork?
Post by: Gamerlord on January 09, 2014, 08:27:53 am
For some reason, I think phoenixes would fit the Taiga Orcs best due to the fall of their golden age thing in the demi-fluff and their resurgence. But this little statement should be in the Orc thread. Bad Gamerlord.If we don't, we should.What's the demonic attorney gonna do? Is it like, gonna summon an undead phoenix?Do we have phoenixes in Masterwork?
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 09, 2014, 08:38:35 am
If we don't, we should.What's the demonic attorney gonna do? Is it like, gonna summon an undead phoenix?Do we have phoenixes in Masterwork?
I have made creatures that (sort of) revive themselves when killed, and with minor alterations they could be given a fiery effect as well. Too bad creatures can't drop their own fertile eggs as an itemcorpse.
Post by: Meph on January 09, 2014, 08:41:19 am
Post by: LMeire on January 09, 2014, 10:37:29 am
Citizens "constructed" at the graveyard or necromancy altar don't appear on the military lists to be drafted.
Summoned pets like the black monolith and the soul wisp are hostile to "wild" undead, resulting in their immediate attack and destruction by supposed allies.
Summoned pets also don't appear on the Z-tab for butchering/training.
Post by: Meph on January 09, 2014, 11:13:44 am
I cant fix this issues with summoned creatures, its the same with the Townportal and dwarf mode. I am just hoping for a fix in the script at some point. The pets I can make friendly to undeads, thats not a problem.
Summoned pets can still be butchered by viewing the creature directly and permitting it. No need for the unit list.
Post by: megahelmet on January 09, 2014, 12:07:49 pm
If we don't, we should.What's the demonic attorney gonna do? Is it like, gonna summon an undead phoenix?Do we have phoenixes in Masterwork?
There are firebirds...which are technically related to phoenixes. And I hate them. They constantly torch *everything*. I now build my forts in deserts and glaciers just to combat the things.
I'm not fond of anything that uses fire except me. Particularly common wild animals.
Post by: zlurker on January 09, 2014, 02:40:34 pm
Post by: BlackFlyme on January 09, 2014, 02:46:01 pm
So no one knows what a necromancer tower has for a graphic in map mode in Phoebus? :<
They should look like a purple or pink I.
Post by: Meph on January 09, 2014, 03:04:57 pm
I redid the library design a bit. Just small adjustements, but more modular now. From clockwise from the top left: Fire/Illumination, Gems/Elemental-Men, Enchantments/Air, Poisons/Plants, Earth/Inorganics, Blood/Rose, Water/Ice, Gold/Metal. Center will be used to create books.
(http://i.imgur.com/ixO7SEP.png)
Tomorrow I hope to finish enough magic reactions in them to do another release, V.02.
I did some unexpected science with gm-editor today, with the heavy lifting done by Warmist and TheOnlySolitair. Quietust also came by. I am curious what can be done with all this, but it seems that controlled moods are one point. I can certainly start a mood from a reaction now.
I did the counterpart for the Hoardmaster. The Hoardmaster does buy stuff and give you souls. The new Demonic Attorney does the opposite: You can sell souls to the underworld to get rewards. Its mostly pets, warbeasts, poisons and two unique items. For a heavy investement of souls, you can unlock two of the High-Ritual tier buildings directly. Otherwise you have to do slow research for it.
(http://i.imgur.com/Lv8YZ7b.png)
Post by: jaxy15 on January 09, 2014, 03:12:41 pm
Post by: shadowclasper on January 09, 2014, 03:22:45 pm
So, what does the demonic attorney have to do with lawyers?Contracts or souls.
Also, if you can cause moods now by reactions. The Warlocks should totally have high end spells to force their crafters into moods of all sorts. Or perhaps hit enemies with them. An interesting one would be a spell that forces all enemy units within LoS into a Fel Mood.
Post by: Grimmash on January 09, 2014, 03:36:49 pm
Post by: Meph on January 09, 2014, 03:48:24 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Moods are seemingly possible, as is healing melancholic dwarves. Science is being done, but apparently the gm-editor allows quite a few fancy things.
Post by: BlackFlyme on January 09, 2014, 03:51:03 pm
Moods via reactions would be great for... Every race. Cab you remove moods as well? That would be fantastic for normal dwarf forts, with an expensive reaction to save someone who fails a mood.
You can remove insanity just fine, though I'm not sure if it would be possible to remove an actual mood safely. However, berserk dwarves probably aren't worth saving, since they will spark a loyalty cascade unless you manage to cure the dwarf before they attack anyone.
Post by: Meph on January 09, 2014, 03:56:56 pm
Quote
You can remove insanity just fineThat alone is worth a lot. Not for Warlocks, but for dwarves.
Another thing is converting wildlife into pets. For example a druid finds a pack of wolves, and the wolves instantly turn 'tame' and count as pets. That should be possible with this as well. Good for elves or gnomes.
The discussion on it literally just started today, and Quietust seems to take an interest. I can only watch and wait and see what comes of it. :)
Post by: jaxy15 on January 09, 2014, 03:59:55 pm
Post by: Grimmash on January 09, 2014, 04:50:43 pm
Post by: shadowclasper on January 09, 2014, 05:05:08 pm
Post by: zlurker on January 09, 2014, 06:26:28 pm
Post by: BlackFlyme on January 09, 2014, 07:01:51 pm
How do you embark on necromancer towers? I've never tried to use Embark Everywhere before trying warlocks.
There's a DFHack plug-in called 'embark'. When you are in the embark screen, just type 'embark -e' into DFHack, and it should let you embark wherever you want.
Just don't embark in the ocean. It's an instant game-over.
Post by: zlurker on January 09, 2014, 07:12:21 pm
Post by: BlackFlyme on January 09, 2014, 07:14:26 pm
I turned it on already. Just not sure how to embark on the tower. Do I just put my cursor on the I and hit e to embark?
Just make sure that the embark rectangle is over the I and embark like you would normally.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 09, 2014, 07:16:33 pm
Post by: zlurker on January 09, 2014, 07:33:15 pm
Post by: mahrgell on January 09, 2014, 08:05:58 pm
What would be interesting is if we could ever build things that are 3 dimensional and standing in the middle of an area regardless of the ground under it (building stuff in the air). Making a merperson civilization could be possible then.
It is possible to attach buildings to the sky... :D (but afaik MDF uses an open sky plugin and has no sky ceiling, but not sure)
Post by: LMeire on January 09, 2014, 08:36:54 pm
Getting ready to embark and wondered if anybody had any tips what to train my skeletons in. Currently have four of them, two ghouls and a warlock. :D
Maximize Engraving on at least two of them. You need either a Harbinger or a Fleshmonger to start hunting, and both of those are hard to keep happy without giant, fully-engraved everything. (The Harbinger more so.)
You'll want to start hunting as early as possible in part because ghouls are carnivorous and also because every individal bone stack/body part/corpse can be animated into a "Restless Walker", that is an entire 'opposed to life' humanoid that can be butchered again for more meat. (EDIT: They aren't livestock though, so you'll have to arrange for the walkers to die in battle.)
Post by: zlurker on January 09, 2014, 08:40:05 pm
Post by: LMeire on January 09, 2014, 08:45:52 pm
Post by: zlurker on January 09, 2014, 09:02:07 pm
Post by: shadowclasper on January 09, 2014, 09:16:36 pm
Post by: zlurker on January 09, 2014, 09:24:57 pm
-------
Decided to go with hunting on my ghouls and mining/engraving, mason/engraving, lumberjack/woodworker and butcher/tanner for the skeletons. Still trying to decide whether to give the warlock trading skills or medical ones although the former might be a bit moot with how easy it is to apparently bring them back and create new ghouls/skeletons. Maybe I'll make him do chemistry and alchemy instead.
-------
Uh, about hunting ghouls. Are they not supposed to have access to any ranged weapons? All they're able to learn are melee weapon skills while skeletons are able to learn bows?
Post by: MDFification on January 09, 2014, 09:32:56 pm
What would be interesting is if we could ever build things that are 3 dimensional and standing in the middle of an area regardless of the ground under it (building stuff in the air). Making a merperson civilization could be possible then.
It is possible to attach buildings to the sky... :D (but afaik MDF uses an open sky plugin and has no sky ceiling, but not sure)
Already can be done by turning caveins off in the init (or was it d_init?) file. As for the merpeople, though, pathing would still be completely broken, and you'd have to drain all water from an area to build things or produce a good at a workshop since neither of those can happen underwater so far as I know.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 09, 2014, 11:35:10 pm
What would be interesting is if we could ever build things that are 3 dimensional and standing in the middle of an area regardless of the ground under it (building stuff in the air). Making a merperson civilization could be possible then.
It is possible to attach buildings to the sky... :D (but afaik MDF uses an open sky plugin and has no sky ceiling, but not sure)
Already can be done by turning caveins off in the init (or was it d_init?) file. As for the merpeople, though, pathing would still be completely broken, and you'd have to drain all water from an area to build things or produce a good at a workshop since neither of those can happen underwater so far as I know.
That's my point. It's a pity because if you could put in some kind of tag "aquatic" or "free floating" you could have avian and aquatic races. Even if pathing was just fucking weird.
Why is flight pathing weird btw?
edit: Also, for the brood mothers. What if the brood mother is some kind of item more than a creature? You build a particular building with it for producing various monsterous and varied pets based upon the items you feed into it. Basically, we have all these various kinds of dusts for experiments right? So we need some place to use them!
Obviously this should go into horrifying experiments, the production of vile poisons and all kinds of syndroms. Enchantments. Strange golems. Evil beasts that none should have the capacity for imaginging let alone unleashing upon the world!
See what I'm getting at? We have all these experimental materials... so why don't we USE them for shit? A massive variety of pets, creatures, golems, spells, enchantments, syndrom causing substances, and other things. All of them researched in the libraries, produced from crazy combinations of the various dusts and reagents created by the grinders, and fueled by souls.
edit2: Basically. To make up for a faction that will basically be constantly under siege, and without a focus on actually keeping it's citizens alive (after all, you just want a basic breeding population of Ghouls at the end of the day, or a constant stream of souls), they'd instead be focused on research and discovering more and more perverse ways of ending lives and making their foes miserable and inflicting more horrors upon the world. Basically. We should come up with every 3 dust combination possible, make it into a list. and figure out if that's used for producing a new minion. A new pet. A new spell. A new set of enchantments. Or a vile kind of poison.
edit3: Also, depending on how many different things are made, and the percentage chances of research inside of the libraries. Well, each fortress will play radically differently than the others. Some might have fast hordes of war beasts and monstrosities. Another might go in for spell slinging in a big way. Yet another will coat all of it's weapons in terrible syndroms. Yet another will have complicated enchantments that turn foes against one another. And so on and so forth.
edit4: I'd imagine that researching buildings would be a fairly high percentage chance of finding them. So you might have a 10% chance of finding any particular building. But only a 3% chance of any one particular spell, enchantment, poison, etc.
edit5: Alternatively (and no idea if this works). You have the research break it down as follows:
1) x% of things we want to be fairly common and all warlocks to have, y% of things that we want to be broken up and be ludicrously hard to get 100% of.
2) once you've researched something, it doesn't appear in the research libraries anymore. That way percentages will change over time and players will no longer have to worry about getting the same thing over and over.
edit6: Just realized, you probably can't add new reactions to already researched workshops from more research. but perhaps lots and lots of 1x1 or 1x2 workshops? That or what is produced by the research is a 'thesis' that is part of the making process.
Post by: LMeire on January 10, 2014, 02:06:35 am
Post by: shadowclasper on January 10, 2014, 02:16:36 am
Are ghouls and skeletons supposed to get married to warlocks? Also, does marrying their minions mean what I think it does, that those particular couples can't have children?Warlocks are depraved perverts.
This only makes sense to me.
Post by: zlurker on January 10, 2014, 02:22:33 am
Post by: shadowclasper on January 10, 2014, 02:39:24 am
Seriously though if ghouls can't learn bow skills I'm kind of confused how they're supposed to be hunters since they kind of need ranged weapons. Which makes me confused why skeletons do learn bow skill.I thought the ambusher skill could be used with melee or ranged attacks? Hunters without ammo will wrestle prey to the ground won't they? Seems very ghoulish to me.
Post by: zlurker on January 10, 2014, 02:49:07 am
Post by: shadowclasper on January 10, 2014, 02:56:17 am
I thought hunters only used ranged weapons though I don't think I'd want my ghouls fighting hand-to-hand with wildlife.and yet it would be fairly fitting would it not? Especially if they could be made to hunt wild undead (since ghouls traditionally are corpse eaters).
edit: Alternatively. They should get blow darts, not crossbows perhaps? You pair them up with paralysis causing syndrom poisons and such in order to get them hunting properly. Send them out in hunting packs. A ghoul with a blow gun, paired with hunting animals to take down the paralyzed wild life.
edit2: Best of all would be to set up a place sitting on the edge of an evil biom. Zombies wander down into say, a savage biom, and they kill the wildlife. Your skeletons go and collect the meat by having 'collect refuse outside' turned on, that way you end up with plenty of corpses to work with.
Post by: LMeire on January 10, 2014, 03:04:11 am
Seriously though if ghouls can't learn bow skills I'm kind of confused how they're supposed to be hunters since they kind of need ranged weapons. Which makes me confused why skeletons do learn bow skill.
IIRC the "Hunting" skill only affects how close the unit can get to a target before they de-cloak. What I've been doing is getting the hunters on a squad and sending the squad out against some easily killed wildlife. After that I just need a warlock to run "Raise Zombie from Corpse" to make a Walker, then I kill that one and butcher it to get enough remains to build 2-3 more Walkers, and then I just go through that motion to infinity/as I need it and I never have to worry about running out of food, drinks, bones, leather or totems ever again. (They also sometimes drop a soul, so there's that bonus.)
Post by: shadowclasper on January 10, 2014, 03:06:05 am
Seriously though if ghouls can't learn bow skills I'm kind of confused how they're supposed to be hunters since they kind of need ranged weapons. Which makes me confused why skeletons do learn bow skill.
IIRC the "Hunting" skill only affects how close the unit can get to a target before they de-cloak. What I've been doing is getting the hunters on a squad and sending the squad out against some easily killed wildlife. After that I just need a warlock to run "Raise Zombie from Corpse" to make a Walker, then I kill that one and butcher it to get enough remains to build 2-3 more Walkers, and then I just go through that motion to infinity/as I need it and I never have to worry about running out of food, drinks, bones or totems ever again. (They also sometimes drop a soul, so there's that bonus.)
Sounds a bit exploity... perhaps we need to increase the costs of making walkers?
Post by: LMeire on January 10, 2014, 03:09:45 am
Seriously though if ghouls can't learn bow skills I'm kind of confused how they're supposed to be hunters since they kind of need ranged weapons. Which makes me confused why skeletons do learn bow skill.
IIRC the "Hunting" skill only affects how close the unit can get to a target before they de-cloak. What I've been doing is getting the hunters on a squad and sending the squad out against some easily killed wildlife. After that I just need a warlock to run "Raise Zombie from Corpse" to make a Walker, then I kill that one and butcher it to get enough remains to build 2-3 more Walkers, and then I just go through that motion to infinity/as I need it and I never have to worry about running out of food, drinks, bones or totems ever again. (They also sometimes drop a soul, so there's that bonus.)
Sounds a bit exploity... perhaps we need to increase the costs of making walkers?
The reaction is basically free, yes. I like to think it was left that way so we could keep testing out various workshops and units without having to worry about losing the fort to basic mistakes.
For version 1.0, I suggest making it cost a totem instead, then you can only make one per corpse.
Post by: Meph on January 10, 2014, 03:25:49 am
Quote
make a Walker, then I kill that one and butcher it to get enough remains to build 2-3 more Walkers, and then I just go through that motion to infinityThat sounds fair. >:(
Ranged weapons for ghouls are an issue, because hunters dont use melee much.
Zombies are too cheap to make. (I didnt think that people would kill them. lol)
What ranged weapons can fit ghouls? Throwing blades? I cant see them using complex stuff, but the Warlocks are too fine to hunt, and the Skeletons are too slow.
Quote
Are ghouls and skeletons supposed to get married to warlocks?Well. No? Skeletons have NOEMOTION, and both Ghouls and Skeletons are genderless. Their description even says 'it', not he or she. Only Warlocks have genders... I didnt think that they could marry, but I dont think I can do anything against it. :-\
Post by: zlurker on January 10, 2014, 03:27:32 am
Post by: shadowclasper on January 10, 2014, 03:31:06 am
Bolos with a stun mechanic (they release a tiny dust cloud upon impact)
Blow darts with poisons, think like the morlocks in the movie version of The Time Machine.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/mv-FTNJw/the_time_machine_2002_film_the_morlocks/
But most importantly, I really think they should have one or two attacks they use to bring down the enemy, then rush in to tear into the stunned/poisoned/paralyzed beast to shreds with claws and teeth.
Bonus points if they hunt wild undead as well as normal creatures.
It's probably an AI issue. But I don't suppose there's some way to have it so that they'll close on enemies once they're incapacitated?
Post by: Meph on January 10, 2014, 03:44:16 am
Post by: LMeire on January 10, 2014, 03:50:53 am
Post by: Meph on January 10, 2014, 04:27:22 am
Post by: Buel on January 10, 2014, 07:46:02 am
Post by: Meph on January 10, 2014, 08:12:26 am
Post by: Buel on January 10, 2014, 08:19:22 am
Post by: Buel on January 10, 2014, 08:33:20 am
Post by: DoX on January 10, 2014, 11:22:24 am
Personally, I'd be all for no ranged. Something about bumrushing enemies with a massive army of skellies and undead just set on tearing them limb from limb makes me feel all tingly.
But, there is an obvious solution: Organic weapons!
- (if possible) give them a breath attack like dragons or forgotten beasts, say a weak "Miasma Burp".
- Alter a pre-existing ranged weapon nobody likes (*cough javelin thrower cough* WHO SAID THAT!?) into a kind of "enchantment token" that Ghouls equip, or just call it a "Spitting Muzzle" re-name the ammo as "Bile" and have a squad of poison glob spitting ghouls! Their ranged could do weak bashing damage, but lots of poison, or piercing damage for a kind of "acid burn". Hell, strong ghouls could cause the "Melting" effect that lava does.
- If we really need something physical, then just give them a quiver full of bones. Like, literally. They're already a weak unit, just have a function like turning bones into bone bolts that makes them "throwable", and have ghouls toss femurs at the enemy to cause bashing damage. Bonemerangs. Or skulls. Carve skulls to be spiky, then throw them. Spike skulls. Point is ghouls are stupid and have sharp fingers: no bowstrings.
- They could also throw exploding maggots? Yeah I went there.
Post by: Meph on January 10, 2014, 11:52:33 am
(So even if I do give them a special ranged weapon, they will still steal real ones, and complain about no ammo, even if ammo doesnt even exist for their special ranged weapon)
Post by: megahelmet on January 10, 2014, 12:17:13 pm
I vote for either throwing blades (It'd be really cool if they had some kind of javelin type weapon, with a rope so they could hit figures and pull them in. But I doubt that can be programmed in).
Bolos with a stun mechanic (they release a tiny dust cloud upon impact)
I'm a huge fan of the bolas. They already use throw and whip skill so great for ghouls. They are among my personal favorite weapons. Good at both range and melee. Not excellent, but good enough. I don't think they need to release dust clouds. My dwarven bola squads usually stop gobbos (and especially warlocks) dead in their tracks with bolas. They chip bones frequently. (And if made out of high quality materials, dismember unarmored bits like hands and feet.
Bolas should definitely be an option to craft. Although, back on the dust cloud thing...cool enchantments for bolas are a plus :p
But warlock bolas could definitely be a great deal more...twisted. Good races, use them for hunting, or for defense. Warlocks use ghouls that scour the land for more...parts. What would a bola used by ghoul look like? It might not even be built, but grown. Unnatural twisted strands of nether creeper with thorn barbs, dripping in poison that increases pain and causes bloody wounds that remain open, gaping, and oozing blood.
It's not enough to just gather resources. For the warlocks, they need to know those resources died screaming.
Post by: Grimmash on January 10, 2014, 12:54:49 pm
Just my 2 urists, though.
Post by: Meph on January 10, 2014, 01:07:52 pm
Warlock spells are a thing now. About 50 of them. :)
The other issue I found is that creatures spawned with dfhack dont use interactions. Not a big deal with skeletons and ghouls, but I noticed non-exploding landmines, non-firing turrets, non-corpse-resurrecting Monoliths. :-\
But I found a way to add spawned units into the military. Might cause crashes, but thats what the Alpha Release is for.
Post by: DoX on January 10, 2014, 01:14:37 pm
Ah well. It was a good dream. I'd still love to see organic ranged attacks through the magic system, at least. Miasma breath and poison spit.
Okay. We can't change the weapons. Dag. So, we'll have to change the units!
Some sort of building/magic that turns ghouls into fiends? Smaller, weaker creatures that can use bows and bolas?
A way of re-assembling skeletons into skeleton archers? Like, one of their arms has an in-build bone bow?
Edit: Just read the post above. Ah well, hunting through the military seems like a good solution. Shouldn't be that huge an issue, given the amount of sieges/ambushes Warlocks will attract. Plenty of bones and blood!
Post by: Meph on January 10, 2014, 01:37:45 pm
Miasma attacks are kind a pointless, because miasma only makes bad thoughts in civ members. Nothing else. But a miasma-named attack with syndromes can be done... but not real miasma.
And something else:I just found out that units spawned with spawnunit dont use interactions.
EDIT:Fixed it.
Two solutions: Teach the creature the interaction, or transform the creature once.
First inorganic spawns a Monolith. It doesnt use any of its own interactions. Second inorganic teaches a monolith on the workshop the very same interactions again. A wonder happens. They use them. Third inorganic transforms the monolith generic into monolith generic2, literally the same creature, just a different caste. No difference between castes either. Still, it fixes it. The spawned monolith caste does not do interactions, but the transformed caste does use them.
Code: [Select]
[INORGANIC:MONOLITH_SPAWN]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STONE_VAPOR_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL:Build a monolith]
[SYNDROME]
[SYN_CLASS:\AUTO_SYNDROME]
[SYN_CLASS:\COMMAND]
[SYN_CLASS:spawn][SYN_CLASS:MONOLITH][SYN_CLASS:0][SYN_CLASS:Monolith][SYN_CLASS:\LOCATION]
[INORGANIC:MONOLITH_TEACH]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STONE_VAPOR_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL:Teach a monolith]
[SYNDROME]
[SYN_CLASS:\AUTO_SYNDROME]
[SYN_CLASS:\ALLOW_MULTIPLE_TARGETS]
[SYN_CLASS:\ALLOW_NONWORKER_TARGETS]
[CE_CAN_DO_INTERACTION:PROB:100:START:0]
[CDI:INTERACTION:RAISE_CORPSE_MONOLITH]
[CDI:ADV_NAME:Animate corpse]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:A:10]
[CDI:TARGET:A:LINE_OF_SIGHT]
[CDI:MAX_TARGET_NUMBER:A:1]
[CDI:VERB:hum:hums:NA]
[CDI:TARGET_VERB:shudder and begin to move:shudders and begins to move]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:100]
[INORGANIC:MONOLITH_TRANSFORM]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STONE_VAPOR_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL:Transform a Monolith]
[SYNDROME]
[SYN_CLASS:\AUTO_SYNDROME]
[SYN_CLASS:\ALLOW_MULTIPLE_TARGETS]
[SYN_CLASS:\ALLOW_NONWORKER_TARGETS]
[SYN_AFFECTED_CREATURE:MONOLITH:GENERIC]
[CE_BODY_TRANSFORMATION:PROB:100:START:0]
[CE:CREATURE:MONOLITH:GENERIC2]For completions sake: The creature file.
Code: [Select]
[CREATURE:MONOLITH]
[DESCRIPTION:A black monolith. It seems to hum in a frequency just below hearing. Tendrils of green smoky light search the area around it, gently touching and probing its surroundings for anything that once hold a spark of light, animating it to eternal unlife.]
[NAME:black monolith:black monoliths:black monolith]
[CASTE_NAME:black monolith:black monoliths:black monolith]
[CREATURE_TILE:244][COLOR:3:0:0]
[FREQUENCY:0][CANNOT_UNDEAD][BENIGN]
[EVIL]
[FIREIMMUNE][WEBIMMUNE][MAGMA_VISION]
[SMALL_REMAINS][NOT_BUTCHERABLE][IMMOBILE]
[NO_DRINK][NO_EAT][NO_SLEEP][NOPAIN][EXTRAVISION][NO_FEVERS]
[NOBREATHE][NOSTUN][NONAUSEA][NOEMOTION][NOBONES][NO_DIZZINESS]
[BODY:MONOLITH]
[SOUND:PEACEFUL_INTERMITTENT:12:15000:NONE:hum:hums:humming]
[SOUND:ALERT:20:8000:NONE:resonate:resonates:a resonating tone]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:BONE:MUSCLE_TEMPLATE]
[USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE:BONE:MUSCLE_TEMPLATE]
[TISSUE_LAYER:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:BONE]
[BODY_SIZE:0:0:15000]
[CAN_DO_INTERACTION:RAISE_CORPSE_MONOLITH] => should animate dead.
[CDI:ADV_NAME:Animate corpse]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:A:10]
[CDI:TARGET:A:LINE_OF_SIGHT]
[CDI:MAX_TARGET_NUMBER:A:1]
[CDI:VERB:hum:hums:NA]
[CDI:TARGET_VERB:shudder and begin to move:shudders and begins to move]
[CDI:WAIT_PERIOD:100]
[CASTE:GENERIC]
[CASTE:GENERIC2] Note the interaction in the creature. Its the same that it learns from the inorganic. And note the castes, there is literally no difference, just that I needed at least two, to make the creature transform.
Post by: Grimmash on January 10, 2014, 02:34:32 pm
But again, if the majority wants good ranged undead, i can deal.
Edit: Just to be annoying, a few thoughts. Having trained and used swords and bows, it takes a lot longer to be dangerous with a bow. With a sword a beginner poses as much danger to themselves as the target, but the principle of swinging a sharp stick at the thing in front of you makes it relatively easy. For a bow you need to knock, aim, lead, angle, and have good spatial awareness and depth perception. This is why many medieval armies had conscripted foot soldiers and trained archers, for example. And why US GIs have 6 weeks of training now and Rangers train for much longer to become snipers. Accuracy with aimed weapons requires a lot of mental training and skill.
/end rant :)
Post by: shadowclasper on January 10, 2014, 02:39:33 pm
Question? Could you possibly make a new noble slot that can be filled by anyone, not just warlocks? A kind of 'Part's Man' who goes out hunting and gathering. The Fleshmongerer is the obvious choice for this duty, but as the dungeon's only doctor, he's too valuable for such a duty. The idea would be to have 1 or 2 groups of 5-10 ghouls slavering about with bolos and their pure visceral cunning hunting down shit.
Also. You could give Warlocks their own unique bolos weapon rather than a simple bolo launcher. They have a 'hunter's gauntlet' which is used to hurl the deadly and strange bolos that ghouls favor for their hunts.
Post by: Meph on January 10, 2014, 02:54:05 pm
True there are skeleton archers, but meh. Never bought it. A workaround could be making the skill learning for ranged low. That way you can use them, but it is a poor solition. Add in a reaction to train the skill, actually any skill really, say at the skelegym, and you can force better stats for a price.Having been a sniper in the german airforce myself: Yes, but this is still a game with dragons and skeletons. ;) Do mind that skeletons only learn in a 50% rate, so I wouldnt call them "good ranged undead".
But again, if the majority wants good ranged undead, i can deal.
Edit: Just to be annoying, a few thoughts. Having trained and used swords and bows, it takes a lot longer to be dangerous with a bow. With a sword a beginner poses as much danger to themselves as the target, but the principle of swinging a sharp stick at the thing in front of you makes it relatively easy. For a bow you need to knock, aim, lead, angle, and have good spatial awareness and depth perception. This is why many medieval armies had conscripted foot soldiers and trained archers, for example. And why US GIs have 6 weeks of training now and Rangers train for much longer to become snipers. Accuracy with aimed weapons requires a lot of mental training and skill.
/end rant :)
Post by: shadowclasper on January 10, 2014, 03:10:43 pm
Post by: Meph on January 10, 2014, 03:27:57 pm
I uploaded the next version of the Alpha: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8308 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8308) I includes the eternal rose that can potentially be used now, since you can create the reagents, you can sell items at the hoardmaster, buy pets and poisons at the Demonic Attorney, learn rudimentary spells in the Libraries and create ritual reagents in the Alchemists Quarters. I did not add the build-mats and reagents to the libraries in this, since I want testers to have easy access to them. This means the alchemy produces items that are currently not used in anything. ^^
There are three things that I want to ask tester to use:
1. Test the spells and have fun setting the world on fire. (Then tell me which ones act weird) ;)
2. The still has a "test mood" reaction. It allows to hack spawned creatures into your squads. Run this reaction on skeletons and ghouls you spawned, using workshop profiles. Do this once on a skeleton, and you can add it to the squad. THIS MIGHT CAUSE INSTABILITIES. I dont know. Quietust, warmist, no one knows. Possibly yes, maybe no. The only way to find it out is by testing in forts.
3. The Necromantic Shrine has two new test-reactions: Teach Monolith and Transform Monolith. Both are workaround to allow the monolith to fullfill its role: It will animate all deads around it. (they might attack it if you use "teach", they shouldnt attack it if you use "transform") Please give these a try. To teach or transform the monolith, spawn one and keep it one the workshop when you teach/transform it. Then bring it near corpses.
I almost finished the manual on them, but a few things are still missing:
(http://i.imgur.com/92uiRfR.png)
Post by: Gamerlord on January 10, 2014, 03:30:52 pm
Hey, is there an upper limit on how many spells a warlock can learn?
Post by: jaxy15 on January 10, 2014, 03:36:09 pm
SO MANY SPELLS.They're warlocks. What do you expect them to do, bash people to death with a stick like some sort of primitive DWARVES or ORCS?
Post by: Meph on January 10, 2014, 03:38:54 pm
Just got good news: Putnam fixed and improved his HackWish script, so the Darkpact will be a thing in the release. Wish for items, no crashing. :)
EDIT: Every Warlock can learn unlimited spells.
Post by: zlurker on January 10, 2014, 03:39:43 pm
Post by: Jaso11111 on January 10, 2014, 04:02:35 pm
I love Necromancy in games and the idea of an entire
Post by: shadowclasper on January 10, 2014, 04:13:02 pm
edit: also, is there some way to 'control' which spells a warlock will cast? Or will they just go around using them at will?
Post by: zlurker on January 10, 2014, 04:17:37 pm
So are embark pets attacked by the undead or not?
Post by: jaxy15 on January 10, 2014, 04:27:43 pm
Post by: Meph on January 10, 2014, 04:30:33 pm
Code: [Select]
[SELECT_MATERIAL:ALL]
[COLDDAM_POINT:NONE]
[HEATDAM_POINT:NONE]
[IGNITE_POINT:NONE]
I had hoped that this would solve that issue.Did he die of frostbite?
Post by: jaxy15 on January 10, 2014, 04:37:10 pm
Post by: Meph on January 10, 2014, 04:45:56 pm
I did my own tests, the ice spells are all fine, except the frost nova, which does friendly fire. Ups.
Bloodbeast has CRAZED token, thats an easy fix. I just make a caste without the token. :)
Post by: shadowclasper on January 10, 2014, 04:55:17 pm
They should also be able to send diseases and plagues against enemy civs.
Post by: Meph on January 10, 2014, 04:58:46 pm
Plague fire makes no sense, things that burn die anyway.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 10, 2014, 05:07:17 pm
Post by: SharpKris on January 10, 2014, 05:11:39 pm
Post by: shadowclasper on January 10, 2014, 05:32:11 pm
any idea on creating Abominations? say like using 10 souls and multiple body parts to create a large slow pile of corpses? could act as a pet or use the golem system from the dwarf counterpart by using lots of bone and corpses to create an Abomination and then activating it?
would be pretty cool. I also like the idea of bone gardens that turn into skeleton defenders if we can get that too.
Post by: Baffler on January 10, 2014, 05:57:36 pm
Edit: Just stored the soul in a phylactery, the reaction still says I'm missing reagents.
Post by: LMeire on January 10, 2014, 06:27:06 pm
Post by: Urist McTeellox on January 10, 2014, 06:59:50 pm
Post by: shadowclasper on January 10, 2014, 10:36:11 pm
How does hunting work when someone doesn't actually have the ability to gain proficency in a weapon? For example, ghouls can't use any ranged weapons as far as I know. Will they just go into a constant 'cancel job' loop because they're equipping a weapon they can't use? or do they just equip it and not use it?
Cause if they're just going to grab a ranged weapon, and then not use it. Then why not just make sure that they grab something like a bolos which will use the lashing skill for hunting, and let them at it? Or a Javelin? Or similar?
Post by: BlackFlyme on January 10, 2014, 10:53:39 pm
How does hunting work when someone doesn't actually have the ability to gain proficency in a weapon? For example, ghouls can't use any ranged weapons as far as I know. Will they just go into a constant 'cancel job' loop because they're equipping a weapon they can't use? or do they just equip it and not use it?
They should still be able to use their hunting weapon. They'll just be terrible at it, since they can't gain any skill.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 10, 2014, 11:01:38 pm
Is there a way to adjust how far a ranged weapon will be hurled or is it hard coded?
edit: Also, Meph, can you give me a list of all the various dust types and potential reagents for making spell materials you might want to include? If you do I can probably give you a complete list of possible spell components and such to be crafted at the alchemist (each combination of 3 components for the most part, and some combinations of far more than that)
Also, I'd suggest some better distinguishing factors amongst objects.
Inorganic things (metals, gems, rocks) get reduced to 'Dust'
Plant organic things (plants, poisonous plants, wood, and maybe crystals given that they're technically a kind of wood) get reduced to 'Powder'
Organic things (bones, leather, meat, blood) get reduced down into 'Essence'
So by mixing dusts, powders, and essences you get various spell components. I can come up with quite a few from various things.
=Plants=
Good Plants are reduced to 'pure powder'. 'Pure Powder' has to be 'tainted' by something to create 'defiled powder' before it can be used in other reactions.
Evil Plants are reduced to 'vile powder'
Poisonous Plants are reduced to 'toxic powder'
Normal Plants are reduced to 'plant powder'
=Woods=
Above Ground Wood are reduced to 'wood powder'
Fungal Wood are reduced to 'fungal powder'
crystal wood are reduced to 'crystal powder'
deep wood are reduced to 'twisted powder'
=Special Woods=
metal grade trees are reduced to dust that's the same as weapon's grade metal dust (so 'iron dust' and 'steel dust')
=Good/Evil Woods=
good/evil trees give powder the same as good/evil plants.
=Soils/Sands=
soils and sands just give normal sand. (soil and clay have to be specially treated to reduce them to sand)
=Fuels=
Fuels are reduced to 'burning dust' or maybe 'combustible dust'
=Metals=
Normal metals are reduced to 'metallic dust'
Weapon's grade metals and special metals are reduced to '[metal name] dust'
=Rocks=
all rocks become 'stone dust'
=Gems=
assuming that gems are usually all reduced to just 'gems' then they become 'gem dust'
=Special Gems=
Blood of Armok becomes 'stone-vein dust'
Tear of Armok becomes 'stone-gland dust'
Bone of Armok becomes 'stone-marrow dust'
=Fossils=
Fossils become 'dust of ancient death'
Relics become 'dust of ancient memory'
Treasure becomes 'dust of ancient wealth'
=Special Inorganic Materials=
Cave Fungus is reduced to 'fungal powder'
Living Rock is reduced to 'flesh essence'
Stable warpstone is reduced to 'warp dust'
=Living Materials=
Meats are reduced to 'flesh essence'
Bones are reduced to 'bone essence'
leathers are reduced to 'skin essence' or 'hide essence' I guess.
blood is reduced to 'blood essence'
shells are reduced to 'shell essence'
scales are reduced to 'scale essence'
poisons taken from animals are reduced to 'venom essence'
Is everything I -think- so I hope that gives you plenty of materials to work with. 26 not including the various kinds of metal dusts.
With metals, we have the alchemical table to work with.
That's 15.
Rusty Iron and Rusty Steel should probably have to be processed into proper bars. Or perhaps they both give a reagent called 'Rust Dust' or just "Rust" Either way, that's another potential 1.
Orichalcum, Deep Bronze, Meteoric, Bifrost, Volcanic, and Adamantine brings that count up by another 6
So that gives us 48, 49 if you include Rust.
48 reagents. In combinations of 3. That's potentially a fuck ton of possible combinations that can result in all kinds of things. From ammo, to poisons, to spell components, to research components, to stuff to build other things.
I'd imagine warlocks pretty much reduce EVERYTHING to dust. Everything. Many of these dusts could probably stand in for one another I guess... your call obviously Meph. But my idea is that components made from dust would be used in just about any mid-to-late construction on the parts of the warlocks.
They probably shouldn't use anything at mid-to-late levels that isn't built from components made from various dusts.
What do you guys think?
edit2: Did I miss any materials that warlocks might end up collecting without having a real need of? Glass? Anything else?
edit3:
So, various buildings as well.
Wood Grinder: Reduces wood to powder
Plant Grinder: Reduces plants to powder
Ore Grinder: Reduces ore to dust
Metal Grinder: Reduces processed metals and metal items into dust (could be combined with the above)
Gem Grinder: Reduces gems to dust.
Soil Processor: Reduces and clay soil to sand, and fuels to dust.
Corpse Grinder: Reduces Bones, meats, leathers, scales, shells, and similar to essence.
Fluid Renderer: Reduces blood and animal poisons to essence.
Memory Renderer: For processing the various fossil type objects that aren't used for other things.
Doom Maw: A special grinder that grinds special materials. Suggest that it should be kinda alive. It is required to reduce things like deep and crystal woods into powder, as well as the special gems like the Blood, Tears, and Bones of Armok. Orichalcum, Bifrost, Volcanic, and Adamantine too would need the Doom Maw to process them down into their dusts.
Post by: LMeire on January 11, 2014, 04:23:11 am
-snip-
What about liquids like acid, oil and lye?
Post by: mahrgell on January 11, 2014, 04:50:22 am
or:
sometimes less is more
Post by: Meph on January 11, 2014, 05:00:48 am
Quote
=Soils/Sands=
soils and sands just give normal sand. (soil and clay have to be specially treated to reduce them to sand)
=Fuels=
Fuels are reduced to 'burning dust' or maybe 'combustible dust'
=Special Gems=
Blood of Armok becomes 'stone-vein dust'
Tear of Armok becomes 'stone-gland dust'
Bone of Armok becomes 'stone-marrow dust'
=Fossils=
Fossils become 'dust of ancient death'
Relics become 'dust of ancient memory'
Treasure becomes 'dust of ancient wealth'
=Special Inorganic Materials=
Cave Fungus is reduced to 'fungal powder'
Living Rock is reduced to 'flesh essence'
Stable warpstone is reduced to 'warp dust'
=Living Materials=
Meats are reduced to 'flesh essence'
Bones are reduced to 'bone essence'
leathers are reduced to 'skin essence' or 'hide essence' I guess.
blood is reduced to 'blood essence'
shells are reduced to 'shell essence'
scales are reduced to 'scale essence'
poisons taken from animals are reduced to 'venom essence'
These ones for example I wouldnt use. Sand and Dirt is endless in supply, and wouldnt add anything to the gameplay, besides more hauling. Charcoal and coke will be used as fuel directly. Special Gems get their own workshops, Archeology probably as well. Both are very rare, and I dont want to base spells and libraries on them. There are many maps in which players do not have these inorganics at all. Bodyparts/meat will be used directly in reactions.
On the other hand, I truly love the idea of a great strip-mine area that heeds mechanical power and all raw materials are just thrown in. I truly do. Currently all trees, plants, ores and gems can be thrown in. Soil and Rock is too common to really play a role, and the rare parts are too rare, making the game more inbalanced on different maps.
I might do a item shredder (for goblinite), and maybe I can change the bonemill to a "organic shredder", even if I would need a better name for that.
Post by: razorback on January 11, 2014, 05:23:54 am
i have never used traditional hunters, my lifestock was allways sufficient and if not i used military hunting.
so i have no idea about the possible problems with normal hunting but as i imagine - if you just assign the right ammo (e.g. bolas) your hunters should be able to equip the right weapon right?
i certainly like ghouls with bolas - maaaybe give them some additional thrower skill and everything should be right. (and i also really like rather mediocre skilled skelletons with bows patrolling in bulk on my towers walls^^)
if everything fails i have a little idea for military hunting/shortness of squads:
at the moment it seems that the harbinger is the key position to unlock all the other squads and thus a little bit unconvenient concerning room requirements.
what if there was an additional "noble" with a small squad (~5 units) wich is available from the beginning like the harbinger but has no or lesser room requirements.
at first, this could be used as an early but limited defense and later on as the dedicated hunting crew.
could be named "persecutor" or so...
Magic:
i have also never used magic, so some questiones:
-is it possible to see somewhere wich spells a warlock has allready learnd (i recall an other thread about orcs or bolds where it says you have to remember them on your own :S )
-does 'friendly fire' also include self harm of the caster?
might be a stupid question but: the stairs in the library ar not useable, are they? (but i would like that^^)
Post by: mahrgell on January 11, 2014, 05:34:18 am
Post by: Meph on January 11, 2014, 05:57:41 am
stairs in buildings are not useable. Just decoration.
Post by: razorback on January 11, 2014, 06:45:34 am
could you just leave the space where the stairs are emtpy - so one can build whatever he likes to in that tile (yes, even stairs :D )
Post by: Meph on January 11, 2014, 06:55:38 am
Post by: SharpKris on January 11, 2014, 07:29:24 am
Post by: Meph on January 11, 2014, 08:07:04 am
I spend today updating scripts.
Darkpact is better, but still causes crashes. Less crashes, but still a problem.
Spawned units can now use interactions. YEAH THIS IS HUGE.
Spawned units can now join squads. YEAH THIS IS HUGER. I KNOW THIS ISNT A WORD.
The grand Convocation can destroy entire sieges, test successful. YEAH BUT WHY AM I YELLING?
Post by: DoX on January 11, 2014, 10:43:01 am
Post by: Jaso11111 on January 11, 2014, 11:23:44 am
Post by: megahelmet on January 11, 2014, 01:12:02 pm
Spawned units can now join squads. YEAH THIS IS HUGER. I KNOW THIS ISNT A WORD.
Zomgies! Hugest huger of all! I'm going to field entire squads of fire mages bought from the Town Portal in dwarf mode now.
Post by: Meph on January 11, 2014, 01:19:54 pm
I am currently testing books and writing. This hackwish is so amazing for items, it makes testing very easy, because I can just spawn what I need.
And what I need is more human.skin bound books.
(http://i.imgur.com/MDRuJyR.png)
Post by: Boltgun on January 11, 2014, 02:55:11 pm
Post by: Meph on January 11, 2014, 03:07:46 pm
Anyone knows these titles from somewhere? Because you can write them. :) These are the 8 special books, from the eight library sections. The center one can write the Tome of Sator, takes 50 worksteps. The eight ones below are one workstep, but take special reagents. All of which unlock workshops. :)
Quote
Book of Eibon
Cultes des Goules
De Vermis Mysteriis
Necronomicon
Liber Ivonis
Unaussprechlichen Kulten
Book of Azathoth
Testament of Carnamagos
Post by: jaxy15 on January 11, 2014, 03:13:19 pm
Post by: Meph on January 11, 2014, 03:30:04 pm
Post by: Meph on January 11, 2014, 04:03:29 pm
Today was a rather slow day. I did add books and writing of books. You can create bone-bound or leather-bound books, in the center library. They cost 1 glue, 1 ink, 4 paper/vellum and 1 bone/leather. The glue can be made in the kitchen, just like in dwarf mode. Warlocks are a bit better at it, they can also make glue from bone marrow. The paper comes from the screw press or vellum/leather in the tanner. Ink is made in the center library directly, with jugs. Same system as dwarf mode.
You need 10 books for each library. There is only this one "write book" reaction, there is no micromanagement needed. 80 books in total till you get all library parts.
Each library part also has a special book it can write. Center can write the Book of Sator. It has 50 worksteps, and costs 1 glue, 1 ink, 50 pages/vellum (one for each step). It unlocks the fitting workshop.
The other libraries can write unique named books.
Code: [Select]
Book of Eibon
Cultes des Goules
De Vermis Mysteriis
Necronomicon
Liber Ivonis
Unaussprechlichen Kulten
Book of Azathoth
Testament of CarnamagosThey cost exactly what normal books cost, plus a few extra ingredients each. Nothing too fancy. All 8 of them are needed to build the "Grand Convocation", another high-tier workshop. This means you need all libraries to unlock it. It will be able to run fort-wide combat spells, the strongest being SLAYRACE. It will instakill any siege entirely. But beware... there might be side-effects. (dont ask me what, because I havent written them yet. ^^)
The other thing I did today is talking to Warmist and Putnam, testing scripts. Spawnunit and Hackwish got big upgrades. Spawned units can now be hostile, can join the military and use interactions. Hackwish, which is used in the Darkpact, runs perfectly now, no crashes. You can even ask it for "WEAPON" or "GLOVES" or "SHIELD" and get a random result, in case you dont really know what to ask for. So "SHIELD" "ADAMANTINE" will give you a random type of shield, made of adamantine.
Tomorrow I will finally add the reagents to the spell learning, and I might port some spells from dwarf, kobold and orc mode to the Warlocks, if I find something that fits. :) Suggestions are welcome, even if my todo list is still more than full enough.
After this I want to have a look at the enchanters. Making runerobes and enchanted weapons. :) Oh, and I fixed that hostile Bloodbeast thing, they are friendly now. :)
No pics today, because there are no new workshops.
PS: I havent tested skin-bound books, but I would assume that they will rot away... thats why I took leather.
Post by: SharpKris on January 11, 2014, 05:30:54 pm
Post by: Meph on January 11, 2014, 05:32:09 pm
isn't it a bit game breaking to be able to wish for any item?Do you have any idea what it costs, and what negative sideeffects it might have? 8)
Post by: shadowclasper on January 11, 2014, 05:50:55 pm
isn't it a bit game breaking to be able to wish for any item?Do you have any idea what it costs, and what negative sideeffects it might have? 8)
No idea. Why not tell us!
Also call the organic grinder a "corpse grinder" since that sounds awesome and defines how it works.
Post by: megahelmet on January 11, 2014, 05:57:15 pm
Since gravity can't actually be reversed I'm guessing, I think a purple dust cloud that flings mobs about would rock. (Source, the DnD sidescrolling arcade game)
Post by: Meph on January 11, 2014, 05:58:35 pm
And I dont know what the Darkpact will cost yet. I just got it to work relyably today. How should I have a complete system written for it already? ^^ Make suggestions. :P
Corpse grinder makes perfect sense. :)
Post by: shadowclasper on January 11, 2014, 06:01:41 pm
Post by: Teneb on January 11, 2014, 06:07:53 pm
Spoiler: * (click to show/hide)
Post by: shadowclasper on January 11, 2014, 06:17:07 pm
All phylacteries become normal souls.
Workshops have a random chance of locking up.
Your warlocks all enter felmoods regardless of whether they've entered a mood or not.
Edit: chance of melting all iron grade materials.
Post by: Grimmash on January 11, 2014, 06:39:23 pm
But it would be fun to have annoying but not game breaking things be common, like blindness, syndromes that infect other undead, demon spawns. Although it seems like the whole tampering with reality thing would often has large and obvious results, or small and insidious, but not game breaking results. Or not. Balancing that should be fun.
Post by: LMeire on January 11, 2014, 07:11:31 pm
22 units of blood
22 totems
22 souls
10% of success
Post by: shadowclasper on January 11, 2014, 08:48:19 pm
Is it possible to upgrade skeletons? Improve their bones with metal and stuff? Make a skeleton out of iron bone and such?
Post by: CaptainArchmage on January 11, 2014, 10:09:04 pm
How much control can we get over the warlock spells? Is this just through building reactions and "when they feel like doing necromancy"? Would it be possible to get warlocks to cast a specific spell in a specific location? i.e. "call down a firestorm to incinerate this area in particular".
Post by: Meph on January 12, 2014, 02:22:17 am
66 items is way too much. The worker would cancel the reaction because he gets hungry/thirsty.
upgrading skeletons is possible.
Fort-wide effects on items are impossible. These things can only affect creatures.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 12, 2014, 02:34:00 am
Can you set specific skill levels on castes and such? EG: Everyone in this caste will have expert skill in X?
I ask because once you're done with the skeletons with the way you plan it currently, I want to see about modding them further in as special castes that have predefined, unchanging skill levels. Warriors and all.
Post by: Ruan on January 12, 2014, 02:42:37 am
Some thoughts:
Receive correct item
Receive wrong item
Receive correct item, but wrong material
Receive wrong item, but correct material
Receive enchanted version of item (various beneficial buffs possible)
Receive cursed version of item. (is there a way to, say, make wielding an item cause a mood? Like picking up a cursed axe and going Berserk? Otherwise, syndromes/diseases might also be a possibility)
Warlock is killed
Warlock is transformed into some horrible monstrosity
Warlock is transformed into a random vermin
!FUN! occurs, like accidentally summoning a random HFS
Spawns a font of everflowing water/magma (as in, potentially floods the fortress, dunno if that would be possible from a reaction)
Chance to slay all living creatures
Absolutely nothing occurs
A random race sieges you
... there's really just a lot of things that could go wrong with it. Furthermore, another option is to have it be successful AND have something bad happen as well. I like the concept of the wish being a monkey's paw/evil genie style wish. Something where, no matter what happens, you're likely going to regret making the Wish.
The way I see it, using the Wish reaction is either something you a) do after making extensive preparations if it goes horribly wrong or b) do as an act of desperation. Furthermore, I don't think it should cost anything more than, at most, a soul/phylactery. The option should always be there... tempting you. Trying to lure you into using it. It fits into that concept of dark power that warlocks have going for them - potential for huge power, but at high risk.
Also... with regards to enchantments, Warlocks are always sieging and have those talismans on them - those could be another option. Something like the standard infantry boosts, but also things like immunity to fire (if that would even be possible) could be cool. Have them cost reagents, but the better enchantments take something hard to find/valuable.
Post by: Meph on January 12, 2014, 02:49:12 am
aRegarding the 'Wish' reaction... my thoughts is that it should be a calculated risk, but it should be a big risk. As in, more likely to go awry than well.That does sound awesome. Its also partly possible, but many things require rewriting the script. I cant do that. But evil sideeffects I want to do for sure.
Some thoughts:
Receive correct item
Receive wrong item
Receive correct item, but wrong material
Receive wrong item, but correct material
Receive enchanted version of item (various beneficial buffs possible)
Receive cursed version of item. (is there a way to, say, make wielding an item cause a mood? Like picking up a cursed axe and going Berserk? Otherwise, syndromes/diseases might also be a possibility)
Warlock is killed
Warlock is transformed into some horrible monstrosity
Warlock is transformed into a random vermin
!FUN! occurs, like accidentally summoning a random HFS
Spawns a font of everflowing water/magma (as in, potentially floods the fortress, dunno if that would be possible from a reaction)
Chance to slay all living creatures
Absolutely nothing occurs
A random race sieges you
... there's really just a lot of things that could go wrong with it. Furthermore, another option is to have it be successful AND have something bad happen as well. I like the concept of the wish being a monkey's paw/evil genie style wish. Something where, no matter what happens, you're likely going to regret making the Wish.
The way I see it, using the Wish reaction is either something you a) do after making extensive preparations if it goes horribly wrong or b) do as an act of desperation. Furthermore, I don't think it should cost anything more than, at most, a soul/phylactery. The option should always be there... tempting you. Trying to lure you into using it. It fits into that concept of dark power that warlocks have going for them - potential for huge power, but at high risk.
Also... with regards to enchantments, Warlocks are always sieging and have those talismans on them - those could be another option. Something like the standard infantry boosts, but also things like immunity to fire (if that would even be possible) could be cool. Have them cost reagents, but the better enchantments take something hard to find/valuable.
Post by: BlackFlyme on January 12, 2014, 02:55:04 am
Can you set specific skill levels on castes and such? EG: Everyone in this caste will have expert skill in X?
Yes you can. For example, that's how the animated weapons work; each caste has different natural skills in its own weapon and in dodging.
Post by: Meph on January 12, 2014, 02:58:54 am
Post by: shadowclasper on January 12, 2014, 03:01:25 am
That only works on born/migrated creatures. Not spawned ones, which is an issue.
so you can't have spawned creatures have a set skill level due to their caste? Only born/migrant ones?
Post by: Meph on January 12, 2014, 03:03:56 am
Post by: shadowclasper on January 12, 2014, 03:29:56 am
edit: Also had an idea. What if there was a very low chance of producing a Lich during the process of making a skeleton? (like 1% or 0.1% or even 0.01% chance)? They'd count as a full warlock.
Post by: SharpKris on January 12, 2014, 04:05:02 am
having skeletons upgraded sounds fun though!
i would also suggest something !!FUN!! in regards to skeleton population control similar to plump helmet men
Post by: Meph on January 12, 2014, 04:07:24 am
Post by: shadowclasper on January 12, 2014, 04:26:37 am
And is there any way to do the auto-upgrade skeletons thing?
Perhaps reactions that are caste based?
You have a normal skeleton right. All of it's skills start at novice and cannot be increased. You send it to the first upgrade, to become a special kind of skeleton. It enters the appropriate caste, then at the same building it has a reaction it can take right away to become Proficient in the right skills or skills.
Another building would let you upgrade it to the next caste level for that skeleton (say replacing it's bones with ironbone). Now you spawned a brand new skeleton. it goes back to the place where it first got it's original caste, and now takes something to bring it's skill immediately up to Expert level.
This repeats for Great Level, and Grand Master Level.
Normal Bone Skeleton: Competent/Proficient (which ever works best)
Ironbone Skeleton: Expert Level
Bloodsteel Skeleton: Great Level
Dreadnaught Skeleton: Grand Master Level.
If there was some way to automate the process so that a newly spawned skeleton would automatically preform the reaction to bring it's skill level up to the appropriate level and keep it there, that'd be for the best.
Skeletons would never be able to reach Legendary level. Possibly there shouldn't be Dreadnaught Skeletons either. I have no idea whether this would mean that skeletons couldn't produce masterful quality items, but item quality except in weaponry would rarely be an issue, and if necessary we could have enslaved demon smiths to handle that sort of thing. Skeletons would be for mass producing items.
I have no idea how much of this would be possible though if castes of spawned units doesn't effect skill level.
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 12, 2014, 06:20:10 am
Post by: razorback on January 12, 2014, 06:22:25 am
like dwarf-, elf-, orc-skeleton and so on with certain skillbonuses
for the spawned ones i could imagine 2-workshops, the soul- and the bone-shaper
the first is like a library giving the 'newborn' skeletons the apropriate skills of their kin (and ONLY their kin: no dwarf skeleton with bow skill, no elf with hammer etc.)
and in advance increasing their particular skills. (but i'm not sure if a skeleton should be grandmaster or even expert...)
the second one is a furnance to physicaly upgrade the skeletons to as said ironbone, bloodsteel and dreadnought.
the higher the transformation gets, like usual the higher the price should get and i think especially for the boneshaper (or what it will be called) there should be an increasing risk of killing the skeleton, the higher-tier the metal gets.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 12, 2014, 06:54:27 am
How would material effect the skeleton? Besides altering stats? Can you limit the maximum skill level of a caste? So a dreadnought smith skeleton would have only 'no skill' in all skills besides smithing? But up to grandmaster in smithing?
Post by: Buel on January 12, 2014, 12:38:44 pm
Post by: LMeire on January 12, 2014, 01:03:03 pm
So, with the necromancer altar or what ever to raise the dead. Does said corpse have to be a humanoid? Aka, goblin etc? Cause I put it right next to leprechauns and had the raise the dead on repeat, nothing happened!
Butcher the corpses and use their bones instead.
Post by: LMeire on January 12, 2014, 01:33:03 pm
Post by: Meph on January 12, 2014, 04:49:36 pm
No modding on the Warlocks today. Gives Alpha testers more time to report problems before I continue, which will be tomorrow. ;) (I did forum support, a few test embarks, designed some workshops for warmist, but didnt do any modding on the warlocks.)
@LMeire: Couldnt replicate the crash on spawn of bloodbeasts/elementals.
@Buel: The corpse needs FIT_FOR_ANIMATION. Yours didnt work because you set it to REPEAT. NEVER DO THAT. Autosyndrome does not trigger if the reaction is on repeat.
@shadowclasper: No, there is only one skeleton caste. I cant alter skills per caste, not with conventional means. Different materials would act like natural armor though. If their bones are made of steel-grade metal, its essentially steel armor. And yeah, I can sort of upgrade them based on caste with specific skills, using syndrometrigger and other scripts. But in the end it all comes down to the handling, how easy it is for the player to use.
@razorback: No, just one skeleton caste. It was a suggestions, has not been implemented yet. Since skeletons can be build from any bone stacks, it would be weird to make a "dwarf skeleton" from badger and cat bones. And yes, skeleton update workshops can be done. Any good names?
@IndigoFenix: Opposed to life by default could mean that you embark with 7 units, but no Warlock, and instantly lose the game. :-\ What would you use as "rebellion interaction", if opposed to life doesnt turn them hostile? Crazed is known to cause loyality cascades ingame. Overall I like the idea, but I havent looked into the actual interactions yet.
Post by: LMeire on January 12, 2014, 05:03:59 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/AKmHsSn.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/nMkOVh1.png)
The younger brother is a living warlock too, (Well, he was, apparently his chest is gone.) so the marriages just result in badass family trees.
Post by: Meph on January 12, 2014, 05:11:42 pm
I am not sure if its in the alpha 02 I uploaded, but does you creature:warlock_civ have [BABY:1] and [CHILD:1] ? They shouldnt have any kids at all. :-\
Post by: zlurker on January 12, 2014, 05:17:31 pm
Post by: LMeire on January 12, 2014, 05:19:21 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
EDIT: NVM, misread and opened civ file.
Post by: Meph on January 12, 2014, 05:22:57 pm
EDIT: Just do Ctrl+F and search for "CHILD:1". Thats about it. If its too much work, I download the alpha and look myself. ;)
Post by: LMeire on January 12, 2014, 05:27:07 pm
Post by: Meph on January 12, 2014, 05:29:54 pm
Post by: shadowclasper on January 12, 2014, 07:15:35 pm
Dang. Well... hmmm... okay. Question? Can a SYNDROME trigger it? Like, a disease that increases skill level? (I have absolutely no idea if this works, you said using syndrometrigger so yeah). So, we make the upgrade from a normal skeleton to a 'ironbone craftskeleton' and that reaction also creates a boulder that automatically evaporates and releases a VERY small cloud that infects the skeleton and upgrades their skill level on the spot? Could be combined with clever design of a fortress to insure that it happens, roleplaying it and all. No more difficult than setting up a departure point on the edge of the map.
@shadowclasper: No, there is only one skeleton caste. I cant alter skills per caste, not with conventional means. Different materials would act like natural armor though. If their bones are made of steel-grade metal, its essentially steel armor. And yeah, I can sort of upgrade them based on caste with specific skills, using syndrometrigger and other scripts. But in the end it all comes down to the handling, how easy it is for the player to use.
@razorback: No, just one skeleton caste. It was a suggestions, has not been implemented yet. Since skeletons can be build from any bone stacks, it would be weird to make a "dwarf skeleton" from badger and cat bones. And yes, skeleton update workshops can be done. Any good names?
Boneshaper and Soulshaper sound good. Assembly Station would work too. Bone Factory. Bone Lab. Thrall Assembly perhaps?
edit: Also, it'd be interesting if we could create bone giants and other terrribly beasties by combining creatures. Can you say skeletal hydra?
Also, a reaction to enslave/make pets out of/normal skeletons would be bad ass. Or changing the bodies of megabeasts into skeletal versions. Skeletal Rocs would be badass.
edit2: Also, it just hit me. While all military recruits are going to look like skeletons. Will Ghouls bite if they're lashers rather than wrestlers? If not, then probably skeletons shouldn't be allowed to wrestle (no point to it for them), instead it should be ghouls that are the wrestlers?
edit3: Also note on the formatting of the libraries. I know it doesn't matter. but could you put little hallways connecting the libraries if they're lined up properly?
edit4: Also on libraries. Shouldn't body and soul go with the blood and vampirism area? And the golden area be metals and wealth again? Spells that attract adventurers and settlers to the slaughter basically? Also alchemy for converting metals and such as dwarves do?
Post by: Meph on January 13, 2014, 04:39:39 am
I also solved the problem I had with ghouls and hunting. A very simple solution: (http://i.imgur.com/6r4Wt0W.png)
No hunting, no fishing. If you want to kill animals, send your military. I will add more military squads for this. One skeleton, one ghoul.
Post by: Gamerlord on January 13, 2014, 06:38:37 am
Post by: Meph on January 13, 2014, 06:42:13 am
Also permitted jobs in the entity file. Just removing one or two doesnt do anything, but if you remove all that belong to one category, the category is deleted. :)
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 13, 2014, 07:24:27 am
Post by: Meph on January 13, 2014, 09:05:17 am
I got something really awesome: Rituals that transform random invaders, anywhere on the map, to a werebeast or thrall/husk that attacks the others in his unit.
Invaders attack => Warlock goes to his dungeon and does dark ritual => 2 invaders turn into werebeasts or thralls => Chaos and Selfdestruction of invaders. :)
Post by: Meph on January 13, 2014, 10:22:29 am
Thrall chamber can turn ghouls into thralls. uncontrollable, but friendly.
Vampire crypt can turn any warlock into a vampire.
Vampire crypt can turn any vampire into a warlock.
Werebeast lair can turn invaders into werewolves. uncontrollable and berserk, temporary.
I dont see the benefit in turning a civ-member into a werewolf, so I did not add this.
Ebonforge and Glasshaper got new/more reactions.
8 new books. Each library got one, each single one is a buildmat for one building. :) They are cheap, its just to make sure that you build the libraries first.
Now I will take a look at the skeleton upgrades.
Post by: Meph on January 13, 2014, 12:11:05 pm
Post by: jaxy15 on January 13, 2014, 12:47:45 pm
Post by: shadowclasper on January 13, 2014, 03:26:22 pm
Also, I think Ghouls should be allowed to keep fishing. Hunting is a military thing sure, but fishing should remain. Also it should be a 'ghoul pack' of 5 ghouls.
Post by: Meph on January 13, 2014, 04:10:59 pm
Skeleton skills will maybe upgraded manually in a workshop. Dont know yet. Otherwise: Trade/Steal from caravans. The Darkpact can do masterwork items as well.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 13, 2014, 04:44:26 pm
Ha, what if you worked them up through the alchmeical metals? Changing their form as their skills increased?
Post by: Meph on January 13, 2014, 07:04:38 pm
That break did wonders. :)
I removed the stale blood from ghouls, they were messing up the place, which hurts FPS. I removed all hunting and fishing related jobs, which makes ghouls much more... combat heavy. They are now natural butchers, but cant learn any other labors. They are good fighters though.
The Necromantic Altar can now raise all dead on the map, for the cost of 3 souls. Cheap, yes, but the undead are opposed to life and you cant control them.
The Eternal Rose can now remove all bad thoughts from your dungeon, for the cost of one rose.
The Vampire Crypt, Werebeast Lair and Thrall Chamber now have reactions.
I added two more nobles.
The Darkpact can now add a quality to the item created, and allows you to either type or pick from a list. Thanks at Putnam for the update. The concept is finished as well, and there might be negative side effects now.
I added 8 more books, one to each of the libraries. Each one unlocks one building. This is done to ensure a progression from dungeon to library to high-rituals.
Skeletons now come in castes. 4 available, bone, ironbone, bloodsteel and dreadnought. Each level up costs 10 metal bars and raises their skills by 2 and their combat-skill learn rate by 25%, as well as molding their entire body of these metals. A dreadnought skeleton is a heavy hitter and can take quite some beating. They are naturally rare, but you can upgrade them yourself at the Corrupted Forge.
I also tested a fancy warpstone-cloud catapult. More on that later.
Calling sieges, migrants or caravans now costs souls.
Glass Shaper now has ruby glass and cobalt glass items. Red and Blue.
Ebonforge is in. Makes ashlander and ebon glass, as well as raw ruby and cobalt glass. The first two are weapon/armor grade, Orc Fortress players should know them. The evil Ashlander elves trade those.
(http://i.imgur.com/Cf0UjIH.png)
For tomorrow I have on my list: Test all the above mentioned features in a fort. Work more on the blight catapult / AoE siege ammo. Bundle everything up for Alpha V.03. Start working on the abyss, the demon-summoning workshop. :) And figure out a way to make your dungeon crumble if all your Warlocks died.
Post by: DoX on January 13, 2014, 08:42:24 pm
Just a few questions n' comments, because I assume that's what we're here for. Also to go wooh.
- The Thrall Chamber: Making a ghoul into a mad killing machine is, by all accounts, badass. It does sort of minimize it's effectiveness unless you build the chamber right outside the gates of your fortress though. How do you get your new Thrall anywhere near useful hacky-slashy frontlines? Does it become like a pet? Can you pasture it?
- The Ebonglass Forge: Given these are Warlocks, will there be alchemical means to make alternative regents for these reactions? Ways of creating artificial gold and cobalt dust?
- The Darkpact: Love it, but it still seems too easy. 65% success, and if you fail you just lose a bunch of trees? Some fire? I mean, for an Adamantine zweihander, I'd expect at least 20% success and a chance of blood maggots exploding from the wishing warlock's eyes.
- Vampire Crypt: Any chances of rare, difficult to create Blood Elixirs that can stave off the thirst for whole seasons? Possibly created from forgotten beast blood? Also, some sort of "Vampire Frenzy" option, using many many bloodwine casks to temporarily boost a vampire to incredible strength/speed?
- Are the two new nobles appointed or specially created?
- Now, as a closing thought, how to have it so the entire fortress crumbles if you lose all your warlocks? The most efficient means I can think of is a building, some kind of central "Alter" wherein, once a year, a warlock can perform a free reaction (using skills only Warlocks possess, praying or somesuch) that causes a map-wide spell, making all skeletons, ghouls and spawned/created creatures remain civilians. If it's not performed once a year, then every unit that isn't a warlock falls apart or goes mad or becomes opposed to life. No more civs, no more fortress. Just a big empty fort full of wild animal skeletons and ghouls. Sounds like fun for a reclaim, huh?
Post by: CaptainArchmage on January 13, 2014, 09:22:00 pm
Post by: shadowclasper on January 14, 2014, 12:47:35 am
It mentions skills going up by two? Does this refer to crafter skeletons? So a skeleton's skills will all increase by two? or something else?
Secondly, I really think Ghouls should be able to fish. If only so we can have a gollum in our water caverns...
edit: Question? Can you have warp stone based weaponry? That'd actually be pretty cool.
Post by: Meph on January 14, 2014, 04:06:23 am
Skills go up for skeleton migrants. Transformation does not raise the natural skill, only the skill learn rate. Nothing I can do abou it. But I will try to add this using scripts.
Warpstone based weaponry: Possibly, I havent gotten that far.
Vampires will drink drinks automatically, but they will not chose bloodwine over... lets say dwarven rum or wine. Thats why I added this extra manual reaction. They should be quite rare, so its not too much management. I am also not entire sure how the game handles this, because after 3 months they get the bloodsucker tag back, but I dont know if their blood-thirst counter has been set to 0 with this. It might be that they dont drink blood for 3 months, then get that tag back and are like "Oh my, I havent had a drink for 3 months" and instakill someone.
Thrall Chamber: The Thralls will wander about randomly. No control. So yeah, putting this up where invaders walk through might make sense. I really couldnt give you thralls for your army that use weapons and armor, they are so indestructable... doesnt count like a pet, cant be pastured.
Ebonglass Forge: Currently it takes 10 powder, for the glass reaction, but you get 150 from grinding ore. I dont think that there will be a shortage. Its mostly to take green glass and recolor it. Of course the weapon grade ones are more expensive... but I dont think I will add alchemy to this. Maybe chemistry, I havent done that yet. I think about adding AoE attack materials like Acids and Warpstone to it.
Darkpact: Remember, you need quite a bit to build it, and destroying all plants/trees on the map is pretty damning. Same for "kills worker", because you dont have many warlocks. And misery, the dfhack plugin doubles the impact of negative thoughts. I obviously havent tested this ingame, but I think its ok like it is. If testing shows that its too abusive, I can change the balancing easily.
Vampire Crypt: Yeah, why not? Blood Elixier and Blood Frenzy... mh.... I could even make vampire specific spells, now that you mention this.
Any good ideas for Werebeasts? I cant really see how I can add them into the civ. Because they transform that fully heal, they pause/zoom every month, which is annoying, and they drop all their gear, making them bad for the military.
Nobles are appointed. Just like military commander/militia captian.
The crumbles when warlocks dies: No need for a workshop, I can do this automatically.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 14, 2014, 04:38:44 am
Can it produce a thrall who is automatically in a cage? That would make the most sense I'd think. Require a cage to go into the reaction, and pop out someone inside of a cage. That way they could be placed as traps and released as needed? Also seems like what the Warlocks would do. Cage up the person to be transformed into a thrall and activate the device for doing it.
edit: Had an idea. What if the effects of archeology that were normally bad instead produced GOOD results for Warlocks? Like if blood beasts are called upon, they are pets? Likewise, some of the normally good stuff will result in bad things for warlocks. Warlocks probably don't really want the attention of the gods all that much ehn?
Post by: Meph on January 14, 2014, 04:58:21 am
I cant make anything produce anything inside cages, but I might be able to turn caged invaders into thralls. So you build a cage trap, capture a human, turn human in cage into a husk, and it should still be in the cage. Maybe. Its worth a try. :) I really like the idea of uncontrollable monsters inside cages that are released upon the enemy.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 14, 2014, 05:04:49 am
Post by: Meph on January 14, 2014, 05:10:30 am
Post by: razorback on January 14, 2014, 07:49:34 am
and thanks for the 2 new nobles!
but would you please reconsider my earlier suggestion:
1 small squad: (5 - 10) wich is firstly used for self defense and later on for hunting-ghouls or what else (no/small room requirements, needs no unlocking)
Harbinger: small squad (~10?) , best used for warlock only (high requirements, unlocks the 4 riders and the 2(!) Crypt Lords)
2 Cryptlords: mediocre to high room req. large squad (~50) for one melee and one ranged platoon
Post by: Meph on January 14, 2014, 08:03:30 am
You seem to overestimate the amount of warlocks you get. It will not be many in each tower. 10 Warlocks would already be a lot in one dungeon. I want every single one to be a valued member that you know by hand. Teach spells. Resurrect if he/she dies...
Post by: razorback on January 14, 2014, 08:23:24 am
i just don't really like that your dungeonoverlord would be on the field/in the same squad with the bulk of worthless commoners
(and i need much more than 15 archers^^)
about the amount of warlocks
i imagined that a 200 souls(lol) tower would have something like 10 warlocks and about 10 vampires wich would then be somewhat sufficient. ::)
Post by: Buel on January 14, 2014, 09:49:13 am
Post by: Meph on January 14, 2014, 10:29:47 am
2 Vampires will make it very interesting for the 2 Warlocks to survive. Lets see how it goes.
Post by: Gamerlord on January 14, 2014, 10:30:49 am
Post by: Meph on January 14, 2014, 10:48:44 am
Post by: Gamerlord on January 14, 2014, 10:49:54 am
Post by: LMeire on January 14, 2014, 11:01:05 am
Post by: Meph on January 14, 2014, 11:02:45 am
I really hope I can fix that, but if the game thinks that someone with natural skills is still a peasant... I cant do anything about it.
Post by: Meph on January 14, 2014, 11:25:59 am
(http://i.imgur.com/Xv8wZtR.png)
Why does the game decide that the arriving ghoul, who cant even learn shearing and has 0 xp in it, but has 7 skill points as butcher, is a shearer? Seriously. >:(
Post by: jaxy15 on January 14, 2014, 11:34:31 am
Post by: Meph on January 14, 2014, 11:35:33 am
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 14, 2014, 12:24:23 pm
Post by: Meph on January 14, 2014, 12:28:14 pm
I was in autumn. I had about 65 kills and 32 civ members running around. Then it crashed. Last entry in the gamelog was "A goblin caravan from Song Ngumost has arrived.". :-\
Post by: LMeire on January 14, 2014, 01:00:35 pm
Post by: shadowclasper on January 14, 2014, 01:55:31 pm
Post by: Meph on January 14, 2014, 01:57:50 pm
Something is crashing the worldgen 100% of the time. I have to revert back to Alpha V.02. From Day 10. :(
I will try to add parts I wrote step by step, to find out whats causing it. I tried since 2 hours, but I have not clue what it is yet. I even used an older save that certainly worked (obviously, because otherwise there wouldnt be a save folder), but even these raws crash 100% of the time. I am mildly confused.
Post by: Meph on January 14, 2014, 01:58:56 pm
Post by: shadowclasper on January 14, 2014, 02:21:09 pm
Also, I think it's a bit of a shame isn't it? There'd be no warlock fortresses at all? no rivals, no settlements, no competitors?
What would be better is making it so that there's a warlock civ for every settlement produced by them in world gen. (I don't know if this is possible. I only vaguely recollect that occasionally you can have multiple dwarve civs to choose from during embarkment)
edit: Observation: Thralls are friendly to your civ but aren't controlled by it right? So they should reveal undiscovered cavern sections? So you can hurl them into the underworld and let them explore for you randomly? If not, then we need a pet animal that will do that like cats do for dwarves.
edit2: I don't suppose there is some way to edit the raws and visual data in order to take caste into account as well is there? I doubt there is otherwise somebody would have done it by now, but I'm just curious about where in the code you define what position on a graphic's set sheet that a unit takes it's appearance from? Is it hardcoded or is it manual? I only inquire because I remember very odd tilesheets or animals and such that don't look at all like the civ tile sheets.
Post by: Teneb on January 14, 2014, 02:28:49 pm
:'(It might not be something you added. Some time ago my own mod was facing worldgen crashes. The reason turned out to be minotaurs, a vanilla DF creature. I recommend disabling all creature files except, say, dwarves, and genning a world. If there is a crash, then it's something else. If there isn't, go enabling files (in batches, maybe?) and testing. Until you narrow it down to a single file. Yeah, it's not very fun.
Something is crashing the worldgen 100% of the time. I have to revert back to Alpha V.02. From Day 10. :(
I will try to add parts I wrote step by step, to find out whats causing it. I tried since 2 hours, but I have not clue what it is yet. I even used an older save that certainly worked (obviously, because otherwise there wouldnt be a save folder), but even these raws crash 100% of the time. I am mildly confused.
Post by: Meph on January 14, 2014, 02:34:27 pm
If your civ is dead, you can still embark and build a fort, and you get 2 migrant waves. Its the only way to stop migration. And no civ has rivals, because you can never be at war with your own civ. Thralls are undead, and therefore friendly to my creatures, not the civ itself. They wont reveal anything, otherwise the undeads in curious underground structures would reveal things. They also cant be told to walk into the caverns. they act like meandering creatures.
graphics: creatures can have caste specific colors, but not sprites. creatures have single sprites for adults, kids and undeads. Entity, the playable races, have sprites linked to their profession and noble position. The can only use one graphics file.
@Deathsword: Yep, I know. I think every modder knows how much fun that is.
Post by: Teneb on January 14, 2014, 02:50:27 pm
If your civ is dead, you can still embark and build a fort, and you get 2 migrant waves. Its the only way to stop migration. And no civ has rivals, because you can never be at war with your own civ. Thralls are undead, and therefore friendly to my creatures, not the civ itself. They wont reveal anything, otherwise the undeads in curious underground structures would reveal things. They also cant be told to walk into the caverns. they act like meandering creatures.I wonder what will happend with this on the next version, since you'll be theoretically able to revive the civilization.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 14, 2014, 02:51:13 pm
--this was from my previous post before you replied, sorry--
Also, ideas for the two military leaders for the ghouls and skeletons. The Skeleton is called a Crypt Lord right? Shouldn't a Ghoul be called a Grave Lord? Or maybe Grave Master? After all, if bones go in crypts, then corpses go in graves (and ghouls feed on corpses).
Is there any way to get Ghouls to feed on rotting flesh without getting unhappy thoughts from it? Or is that already done?
Also, been trying to think of ways to get units to be hit with a skill buff syndrome from something without it spreading further than you might want.
Just to be clear, you CANNOT put a caste cap on a skill level right? Like have it set up so that when a member of a caste reaches X skill level, then their ability to learn that skill will default to 0% learn rate?
Cause if you could do that, then you could set it up so that skeletons and such could learn skill levels up to a CERTAIN level dependent upon their specific caste, and no further?
Another neat idea would be more skeleton material castes depending on where you want to cap their development (assuming the above is even remotely possible). Things beyond Dreadnaught in other magical metals. Adamantine or Orichalcum would be a possibility for example.
Alternatively... okay... just bear with me here... but is it possible to have syndromes that are non infective, are recorded on their character stats, and would raise their skill level to a certain degree in a thing?
Cause, just bear with me here. What if you could give skeletons an 'inscription' syndrome? The idea is that you're recording abilities and magical programming into their bones right? So you have to give them a syndrom to do it? It wouldn't ever fade. It'd be cured if a new one was put in it's place. And the better the type of syndrom, the better off it would be.
So, just talking off the top of my head here. You take a tin bar, and you send the skeleton off to the boneshaper or inscriptionist or whatever, and the skeleton comes back with a new syndrome. "Tin Smith's Inscription". This lets the Skeleton go from No Skill in the thing, to Novice Skill in it.
It could also start off with Blood or Bone Inscription for the very basic level. Then work up to better ones over time?
Depending on how syndromes work on this (and I don't know so please, bear with me here if I'm wrong), you might not need to even 'cure' the old syndrome before placing a new one. Instead each layer would build on the other.
It depends on if syndromes would stack or not. For example, if syndromes go "give +X to skill" then you'd need to cure the previous inscription syndrome before applying the new one. Otherwise they'd stack oddly (so a Bone inscription gives +1 skill, bringing someone up to dabbling if they have it. A Tin inscription gives +2, bringing them up to novice if they have it. Under this system, if they had both, they'd get +3 total, or Adequate skill).
Now, if syndromes can instead give a FLAT RATE to their ability. EG: The syndrome says "This person now has X skill", then you wouldn't need to erase previous syndromes. Rather, you'd just have them at that skill. So if somebody has Bone (this person is now dabbling skill) and tin (this person is now novice skill), then the system would either default to whichever was applied last, or whichever gives the largest buff right? (assuming it functions this way at all)
Depending on how much of a skill buff you'd want each level of the syndrome to apply, you'd need as many as 16 different materials for the production of these 'inscriptions'. Or you could have them jump 2 levels and only need 8 materials.
If I'm recalling correctly about castes and transformations, then changing a skeleton from one state to another would result in these syndromes, and thus their skill buffs, being lost entirely. Which would only make sense since you'd be erasing the inscriptions as you replace the bones of the skeleton with new materials.
I have no idea how much of this is possible, but maybe this will help put you on a path towards getting a similar system implemented?
edit: Another method rather than removing them. Is just have each material of syndrome give a +1 to the relevant skill, and not stack with the same material syndrome (which I think is built in. Can't catch the same sickness over and over right?) So simple expense of each material will keep skill levels rising at a steady rate?
Post by: Meph on January 14, 2014, 03:56:10 pm
;)
Crash seems to be fixed. I will upload a file later, see if it is ok for other people. :)
Post by: Meph on January 14, 2014, 05:35:07 pm
And here is the new version:BETA V.03 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8322) - Should be a lot better then 01 and 02. :)
I worked 4 hours on tracking down one crash that occured in worldgen. Yeah, fun. ^^ I also played a 1 hour fort. Surprisingly easy to kill stuff when you play sentient undeads. ^^
I added the Orrery, a new building that allows weather control. It costs 5 mechanisms and the weather control is free. I figured that many players would want something simple that can stop potential surface fires, which come from using fire mages.
I changed skills around a lot, and added grasstrample to the warlocks, skeletons and ghouls. Just for flavor, they destroy the grass they walk on.
I also added a first test run of demon summoning. You can do a reaction that has a 100% chance to summon one RANDOM demon out of a list of 20. All of which are procedually generated and different in every world you play. They are the actual demons you would meet in the HFS. currently they all spawn friendly, most of them as civ members. They will sadly do no labors though. Not sure how much the script can be expanded. But its a nice feature anyway. I add pet-demons as well, that you can pasture or butcher.
And I tested the warpstone siege ammo. It does work, so adding this will be another thing. :) AoE ammo.
I added buildmats to all buildings. This means testing is much slower now, but there is one cheat reaction in the Still. For those that want it. ^^
EDIT: Oh, I forgot: I also added a bonesaw as a cheap axe-weapon, which can be used to fell trees. :)
(http://i.imgur.com/c9zbxfp.png)
Post by: Neri on January 14, 2014, 06:30:10 pm
Thankyou Meph, you Legend.
Post by: zlurker on January 14, 2014, 06:56:46 pm
Post by: Meph on January 14, 2014, 07:34:49 pm
Post by: Meph on January 14, 2014, 08:04:08 pm
- Pylons needed to control population. (Necron/Protoss style)
- Demon caste. Powerful, but tantrum/berserk possibility.
- More fort-wide spells that have a recharge time, like "once a month I instakill an invader"
- Magma Spawning (couldnt get magmasource to work relyably yet)
- Broodlords/Broodmothers for breeding new civ members.
- Evil Changlings: flilthlings, festerlings, puslings, bloodlings...
- Academy - Mental-attribute/skill training.
- Temporary Uber-Soldier transformation, which ends with the user dying/going berserk.
- Research (Theology College, Observatory, Anatomy Lab) System.
- Summon Balrog, Imps or Mephits.
- More Torture Chambers and "Information-Gathering". Might spawn "escaped prisoner".
- Expedition/Raid System. Kidnap villagers. Raiders Cabal or Warmongers.
- The Black Spiral - Magical Warlock Spawning that can go wrong. Might use prisoners for conversion.
- Homonculi
- Voodoo
- Ransom prisoners = Sell to caravans.
- Permanent upgrade: Frost/Fire/Blight Skeletons. All skellies get this, but you can only chose one.
- Good Ghosts: Take usage-hint away from interactions, use cannot-have-syn-class to make warlocks immune.
- Skill-learning from souls, like the dwarven library system. Devour soul = Get a skill.
- Attribute-boosts from souls. Devour soul = get more strength/agility/endurance.
- Skull Throne = Turn one Warlock into the boss, with extra spells.
- Alternative: Summon unique noble-caste, Sauron style. The evil Overlord.
- Wyrd Weapons = AoE explosion one-time weapons/ammo for traps/suicide bombers.
- Make drinks from souls that have noeat/nodrink/nosleep for a while.
- Elysian Shades = Shearable pet-shade made from souls, can be sheared for souls.
- Slave Pit/arena = Workshop using slave-tools for positive AoE buffs, like the Tavern.
- Shell life for skeletons: MAXAGE:10.
- Needs something for Fossils/Treasures/Relics
- Needs something for Blood/Tear/Bone of Armok
- Tentacle Monster
- Enchantet items/ Rune-Robes
- Extra spells from Staves/Auras for Warlock
- Will-o'the-wisp, Jack'o'lantern, Burning Skulls, classical horror stuff.
- Some sort of Religion. Lovecraft, anyone?
- Cross-race secret reactions - Just adding this so I dont forget it.
- Good adventurers that attack and siege.
Post by: zlurker on January 14, 2014, 08:18:04 pm
----
And the tower sits surrounded by joyous wilds.
Post by: Kaos on January 14, 2014, 09:01:12 pm
were-creatures: can't the were-creature lair workshop be used in the same way as the vampire's lair? trigger a permanent were-creature transformation and cure it when you want to? or maybe have a were-creature caste that can only transform forth and back using the workshop and ignores the actual moon cycle, like how the saiyans from dragon ball are able to transform into giant apes but since they lack a tail the only way to do it is using the machine that Bulma made that shoots some sort of ultra-potent moon-whatever rays that trigger the transformation despite them having lost their tails.
Post by: Neri on January 14, 2014, 10:24:45 pm
second option, especially if you want people to near stripmine is to make them need one of the various peices of Armok and souls to summon demons "I, the great Summoner Urist McWarlock invoke the Blood God himself to draw you forth Demon!"
Post by: shadowclasper on January 14, 2014, 10:47:01 pm
- Permanent upgrade: Frost/Fire/Blight Skeletons. All skellies get this, but you can only chose one.Sounds awesome. But we'd need a way to avoid Fire skellies from setting everything on fire wouldn't we?
- Needs something for Fossils/Treasures/RelicsDinosaur zombies! Or alternatively turning and perverting ancient things into vile uses.
- Needs something for Blood/Tear/Bone of Armokdidn't you already have something for this earlier in the thread? Blood/Magma Fountain, Soul/Water Fountain, Bone/Dust Fountain? If you do do them that way there should be a toggle on them for switching them between modes that costs something and can't be used more than once a month perhaps?
Anyway, in response to your last post about syndromes. So the inscription syndromes I described might work? The only snag I can think of is how to deliever them unless they can be applied directly without intermediary? In which case you just tell a Skeleton to go to the Inscriptionist, they take the appropriate materials. They get a syndrome that raises their skill level appropriately. Perhaps different inscriptions for different professions? Kinda like tattoo parlors but permanent.
So there'd be various halls or labs or scriptoriums.
Arboreal Scriptorium for woodsman related professions (carpentry, wood cutting, etc.)
Chthonic Scriptorium for Mining and Stone Crafting
Shining Scriptorium for Gem related stuff
Burning Scriptorium for Metal related things
Various scriptoriums for military disciplines?
What do you think?
edit: You could restrict the building of them until you had the libraries too. You'd need specific books from the relevant library to get the materials to build something?
edit2: Reaction would go like this
Skeleton brings materials to the scriptorium.
Scriptorium automatically cures them of any syndromes they have (possibly make it focused to 'any inscribed' syndromes? I don't know if that can be done though).
Scriptorium Applies the new syndrome to the Skeleton.
Materials are used up.
Post by: Meph on January 15, 2014, 07:06:05 am
Combat is ghouls and skeletons, magic for warlocks, magic and combat for vampires. Werebeasts that transform would drop gear and become non-squad members. Werebeasts that not transform would require new sprites, which I cant do (because its hacky enough as it is)
I made skeletons opposed to life, and you need Warlocks to keep them under control now. :) They are also no longer genderless, as this caused weird friendships and even marriages. They are now all male. Some of the warlock witches will still marry them, but hey, why not? ;)
Post by: razorback on January 15, 2014, 07:44:01 am
And for a little bit !fun!:
2 types:
stable werebeast - transforms when enemy in sight
unstable one - transforms once a month (or just unpredictable^^) and goes berserk.
And about combat, because you said there will be no real difference between vampires and warlocks:
why not make the vampires a little bit better in melee but as a drawback, they can not reach the highes tier in magic
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 15, 2014, 08:30:08 am
Post by: Meph on January 15, 2014, 10:08:38 am
Seem like my ironbone skelaton which I embark with can't become noble, damn he would make a very fearsome cryptlord. :'(
Fixed,
Code: [Select]
[POSITION:SKELETON_COMMANDER] => skeleton only squad leader
[NAME:crypt lord:crypt lords]
[ALLOWED_CREATURE:WARLOCK_CIV:SKELETON]
[ALLOWED_CREATURE:WARLOCK_CIV:IRONBONE_SKELETON]
[ALLOWED_CREATURE:WARLOCK_CIV:BLOODSTEEL_SKELETON]
[ALLOWED_CREATURE:WARLOCK_CIV:DREADNOUGHT_SKELETON]
[SITE]
[NUMBER:1]
[SQUAD:25:skeleton:skeletons]
[APPOINTED_BY:EXPEDITION_LEADER]
[RESPONSIBILITY:MILITARY_STRATEGY]
[PRECEDENCE:200]
[DO_NOT_CULL]
[DUTY_BOUND]
MILITARY_SCREEN_ONLY
[REQUIRED_TOMB:250]
Post by: shadowclasper on January 15, 2014, 02:17:58 pm
Its not really important to me but why not make the werebeasts similar to the druids in kobold mode?
And for a little bit !fun!:
2 types:
stable werebeast - transforms when enemy in sight
unstable one - transforms once a month (or just unpredictable^^) and goes berserk.
And about combat, because you said there will be no real difference between vampires and warlocks:
why not make the vampires a little bit better in melee but as a drawback, they can not reach the highes tier in magic
Do warlocks need food and drink? If so, then vampires simply get around the need for that in return for possibly nixing one of your living warlocks if you aren't careful.
Post by: jaxy15 on January 15, 2014, 02:36:44 pm
Post by: shadowclasper on January 15, 2014, 02:47:28 pm
Post by: jaxy15 on January 15, 2014, 02:49:45 pm
Post by: Meph on January 15, 2014, 02:52:46 pm
You called civs that dont exist in your world. It works, its the same materials that the dwarven embassy uses. Its simply that your world doesnt have orcs, or goblins, or whatever you tried to force.
Post by: jaxy15 on January 15, 2014, 02:56:37 pm
Post by: Meph on January 15, 2014, 03:07:23 pm
I added reagents to all spells-learning. All ~60 or so. ^^ Took a while. I also added these reagents to the manual.
Skeleton Cryptlords can now be ironbone/bloodsteel/dreadnought skeletons as well.
Skeletons are now opposed-to-life by default. Warlocks remove this, but only when the skeletons are in line of sight. If the skeletons leave the area they will obey orders for 1-2 ingame weeks, before stopping what they are doing, dropping their gear and slowing down. If a warlock comes into line of sight again, they take up their gear and jobs again.
This means you should keep warlock overseers around. Upgrades for longer periods, or immobile pylons (pets) that control undeads are a possibility. I added this feature, because skeletons with their noeat/nodrink/nosleep/noemotion mean you cant lose if you wall one in.
I added a new workshop as well, the Transmutation Chamber. A very simple one, you take 1 metal dust (any type), 1 fuel, 1 flux and make a new bar of any metal. To build it you need a philosophers stone, which can be made in the alchmist chambers. You need one dust of any metal for it, so start collecting. ;)
(http://i.imgur.com/7cKtMGv.png)
Post by: Teneb on January 15, 2014, 03:10:19 pm
Skeletons are now opposed-to-life by default.Won't this mean that a player could theoreticaly lose on embark due to not having a warlock in the starting 7?
Are ghouls opposed to life as well?
Post by: Meph on January 15, 2014, 03:12:33 pm
I tried to call migrants.Ah, ok. I somehow remembered that it was just "force migrants", but its "force migrants civ-id". I fixed it. :) Thanks for the report.
Post by: Meph on January 15, 2014, 03:13:59 pm
Yes, theoretically you can lose on embark, if you have 7 skeletons. But ghouls are not undead, and warlocks, witches and vampires can control the skeletons. It should be quite rare to have 7 skeletons. I have not seen it while testing.Skeletons are now opposed-to-life by default.Won't this mean that a player could theoreticaly lose on embark due to not having a warlock in the starting 7?
Are ghouls opposed to life as well?
Post by: Gamerlord on January 15, 2014, 03:33:11 pm
Witches?Yes, theoretically you can lose on embark, if you have 7 skeletons. But ghouls are not undead, and warlocks, witches and vampires can control the skeletons. It should be quite rare to have 7 skeletons. I have not seen it while testing.Skeletons are now opposed-to-life by default.Won't this mean that a player could theoreticaly lose on embark due to not having a warlock in the starting 7?
Are ghouls opposed to life as well?
Post by: jaxy15 on January 15, 2014, 03:35:12 pm
Female warlocks.Witches?Yes, theoretically you can lose on embark, if you have 7 skeletons. But ghouls are not undead, and warlocks, witches and vampires can control the skeletons. It should be quite rare to have 7 skeletons. I have not seen it while testing.Skeletons are now opposed-to-life by default.Won't this mean that a player could theoreticaly lose on embark due to not having a warlock in the starting 7?
Are ghouls opposed to life as well?
Post by: Gamerlord on January 15, 2014, 03:35:55 pm
Ah.Female warlocks.Witches?Yes, theoretically you can lose on embark, if you have 7 skeletons. But ghouls are not undead, and warlocks, witches and vampires can control the skeletons. It should be quite rare to have 7 skeletons. I have not seen it while testing.Skeletons are now opposed-to-life by default.Won't this mean that a player could theoreticaly lose on embark due to not having a warlock in the starting 7?
Are ghouls opposed to life as well?
Post by: razorback on January 15, 2014, 03:48:48 pm
Quote
Skeletons are now opposed-to-life by default. Warlocks remove this, but only when the skeletons are in line of sight. If the skeletons leave the area they will obey orders for 1-2 ingame weeks, before stopping what they are doing, dropping their gear and slowing down. If a warlock comes into line of sight again, they take up their gear and jobs again.
would it be possible to make that an optional choice? or a little bit longer ingame durration?
i concur that there should be measures to prevent walling in and "i-win" but for roleplayings sake i would not like the warlocks be to 'touchy' with the commoners (i even thought of totally seperating them with burrows)
is there anything that happens aswell after they slow down and drop their gear or are they litteraly becoming potatoes without oversight?
mhm... :/ not good for longer fights outside^^
Post by: Meph on January 15, 2014, 03:53:09 pm
Like I said: Upgrades for longer durations of control, or pets that can be set up (the monoliths for example) that help controlling the skeletons, are both possible.
Post by: jaxy15 on January 15, 2014, 03:59:32 pm
Post by: Meph on January 15, 2014, 04:43:20 pm
Monoliths are not based on anything. Maybe 2001 Space Odyssey Saga, but they wont create a supernova.
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 15, 2014, 06:56:58 pm
Will there labor reset after they turn oppost to life? Cause it will be PAIN to assign there job everytime it happen.
Next question, how can I enable necromancy job? cause I can't find it in labor menu. I'm building a lot of graveyard and plan to set some skelaton a full time grave digger.
Post by: Meph on January 15, 2014, 07:03:34 pm
Remember that autosyndrome doesnt work if set to 'R' repeat. If you use the graveyard a lot, I am afraid you will have to add the jobs manually. If you have more suggestions for the graveyard, let me know. :)
Maybe I can use the praying labor for actual praying... Anyone has anything about dark gods, evil churches, etc, he wants to add? Some cuthulhuian cult maybe? Or several conflicting ideas, giving them access to 2-3 types of religion, but they exclude each other? (or no religions/beliefs?)
Quote
Will there labor reset after they turn oppost to life?No - At embark skeletons have no labors assigned at all, but if your miner skeleton with active mining labor goes opposedtolife and turns back normal, he will still have the labor assigned and goes right back to work.
Post by: Meph on January 15, 2014, 07:11:56 pm
Post by: Teneb on January 15, 2014, 07:25:28 pm
Some cuthulhuian cult maybe?Doing something of the like with the goblins. Sort of merging that with the demon cults.
Of course, I don't mind if you do some chtonic stuff too.
Post by: Meph on January 15, 2014, 07:37:35 pm
MDF has a lot of it already. the Shoggoths from mining non-euclydian rock, the Cult of the Carp god, which is clearly Innsmouth-inspired, the deep ones, cavern creatures in level 3....
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 15, 2014, 07:38:41 pm
Post by: someone12345 on January 15, 2014, 09:00:47 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: mahrgell on January 15, 2014, 09:40:59 pm
You only list 'more xy' options.
What is imho most important is the balance between more and less ;) Reduce at one end, add stuff at the other one to keep everything manageable. After all it should still remain playable. So I really like steps like the much simplified materials (by grinding down everything and using souls in phylacteries) and similar stuff.
So I don't think that warlocks need every option he other races have under a different name (like a warlock copy of the embassy). Actually not giving them certain options would imho just make them more special. It was discussed earlier, but I felt the idea of just restricting them to melee only + magic quite interesting. Skip any defense turrets/siege engines and you have some interesting change compared what everyone does in a dwarven fort. At the same time you have cut down complexity by a bit, and can in return add it again with the magic system.
Similarly cut some other stuff to put other new systems in. This is not directly aimed and what you have presented thus far, most things I consider quite interesting and fun, but reading all the suggestions here sometimes really hurts my head, when thinking how anyone should manage all that feature/number bloat.
Post by: DoX on January 15, 2014, 09:59:20 pm
This should be Lovecraft Fortress, Blood of Arthomokh
Post by: Denisac on January 16, 2014, 01:34:01 am
Since souls are a very useful commodity for warlocks it would have a somewhat built in detriment against over use if killing a creature by tearing out its soul destroyed the usable soul in the process. Probably a bit beyond scope, but it seemed warlocky enough to mention.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 16, 2014, 01:42:24 am
1) Warlock specific versions of many of the workshops and buildings. They shouldn't be cribbing off of anyone else for the most part.
2) I won't go into the details all over again with ideas, but you know I'm rooting for skeletons whose skill levels, both combat and regular skills, are based around a crafting type mechanic, not one where they level up. Make those suckers more like tools!
edit: Also if we're going to do cross overs. Do vampire counts. Not necrons or tomb kings.
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 16, 2014, 02:57:52 am
Cause it hard to satisfy harby with all the crappy grade furniture, engrave and food I have ::)
Post by: shadowclasper on January 16, 2014, 04:16:28 am
Not sure if I over look it or something, is there a way to increase skelaton skill other than combat ?
Cause it hard to satisfy harby with all the crappy grade furniture, engrave and food I have ::)
No way currently. You have to tech up and get the stuff through other methods.
Which leaves me baffled personally, since why the heck would Warlocks have ultimate cosmic power just to live in squalor?
edit: Also just hit me. Wouldn't the lack of quality items play merry hob with the progression of sieges due to wealth?
Post by: Neri on January 16, 2014, 06:27:27 am
Sorry, not trying to poke holes, just trying to see exploits to close up.
Also; has anyone else had the old corpse from the graveyard attacked by the various opposed to life zombies? no damage, 3 month long combat before my ghoul got around to butchering the old corpse.
Post by: Meph on January 16, 2014, 07:38:38 am
The dark crystals/Pylons that control undead are powered by warlocks. If all warlocks die, the pylons dont control the undead anymore. No worries, I got that exploit covered. ;) I will write this today, I really like the idea. I will make them use a radius that goes through solid rock as well, so pasture a pylon and get a 25-tile radius of control, regardless of line of sight.
Skeleton and Warlock skill learning in workshops will be added as well. :)
there are not many copied workshops, only basics. The 4 crafters, the pottery, the sawmill, the slaughterhouse. Thats it. All just for crafts and furniture, wood and meat.
I cant do the "tear out soul" thing, but I can certainly remove the soul by using itemcorpses/destroying the corpse. If you cant bring it to the butchers, you wont get any souls. Using fire magic already does that. And something you might not have considered: Reanimating corpses to fight for you also makes their corpses/souls unavailable. So you have to decide between getting free meat shields running around, OR the resources in terms of souls, bones and meat.
mahrgell: Balancing and no-bloat is not on the list, because thats something I do anyway.
Dox: Lovecraft it is. :)
EDIT: Oh, and about the traps: Warlocks only have the bare mininum. One pump mechanism, one spike, one sawblade. So you can build screw pumps, upright spears/spikes, and sawmills. Thats all they are used for.
In theory I could take the entire mechanic skill set away from them. No siege engines, no mechanisms, no traps. But that would also mean no pumps, no wells, no screw pump, no levers, nothing that requires mechanisms. Thats overkill. If I could only remove traps I would even do it,but I can only remove the entire group of labors.
And my idea of creep-spawning doesnt work. I wanted to cover entire areas with contaminants that help warlocks and hinder invaders, but the damn civ-members and their hardcoded AI... of course they want to clean it. -.-
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 16, 2014, 09:05:30 am
Well you can call it " Walking dead : dwarf fortress edition ".
15 zombies walking close to them, 20 panic dwarf begin to shot the closest one , one zombie down, two zombie down, another 13 finally reach their prey. Some dwarf fell, ripped into piece by 10 angry zombie, only to come back to drag their comrade to hell with them.
THE BEST MOMENT IN MY ENTIRE DWARF FORTRESS CAREER :D
Now I end up with 32 zombies running around killing random wild life, I start to think warlock are a bit OP (Don't fix it 8))
Post by: Meph on January 16, 2014, 10:03:31 am
Thats why I am working on this pylon system. And your entire economy is based on souls/bones. You have to kill these random undeads at some point, to harvest their bodies to build more workers.
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 16, 2014, 10:08:49 am
Post by: Gamerlord on January 16, 2014, 10:10:24 am
Post by: Meph on January 16, 2014, 10:10:42 am
Post by: Grimmash on January 16, 2014, 11:51:44 am
Post by: Meph on January 16, 2014, 12:23:12 pm
Post by: shadowclasper on January 16, 2014, 02:32:28 pm
You could also simply not provide it with a graphic maybe so it doesn't clutter the screen, and have it labeled "Taint of Evil" that way it'd make sense for everything in warlock radius to be covered with it.
Also, another option is to make a version of the Monolith called a 'Ward'. Wards work differently from traps. They spawn a certain contaminant around them regularly much as a Monolith spreads it's control through walls, Wards do the same, though possibly have them work on a 25 tile radius that is blocked by LoS so that enemies can potentially shoot them apart and cut a path through them. Anyway, you could have multiple types of wards. From Plague Wards that spread a disease, to Acid Wards that melt shit around them. To Fire Wards (might want to have these work as a 1 time land mine type deal, very briefly raise the temperature around them for 25 tiles, surpassing their own burn/melt point).
Another thought is if wards and monoliths can actually be killed like proper creatures... I'm imagining weird half-organic obilisks like in Clockwork Empires.
(http://clockworkempires.com/img/screenshots/ce_summoning2.jpg)
Give them a 'heart' so that they can potentially be killed perhaps? Or just rename it to their "Core" or something.
Another neat ward would be a 'Tentacle Ward' another one shot ward. When an enemy comes into radius, it transforms into wild Tentacle Demon that will die after a few months or even after a few minutes. It's not meant to survive, it's meant to just slow the enemy down.
Also what happens to skellies and such that move outside of the monolith's radius? Or is it only wild undead who when they move outside of the radius go to being wild?
Do Monoliths check every so often for warlocks on the map or they otherwise die?
Same for Skelies and Ghouls, do they have to check in with a monolith every so often? If so, how does that work?
We should probably also renamed the Butcher's to something else entirely. Dissection Table for example. Vivisection Table could be it's alternate for dragging living prey too, possibly the reaction there gives more blood and possibly also generates a 'treatise' that counts as a book and can be used to build a library? (very rare chance of that).
Post by: Gamerlord on January 16, 2014, 02:42:52 pm
Post by: jaxy15 on January 16, 2014, 02:54:19 pm
Post by: Meph on January 16, 2014, 03:08:43 pm
So, the enchanter can create animated armor, completely for free. Is that intentional?Obviously not, its still work in progress. I havent gotten to the enchanter yet. They are pretty beast btw, they are from deons old genesis. I might have to nerf the animated armors a lot.
shadowclasper: I just said that contaminants dont work. ^^ But I plan some spells for the pylons. Currently they power each other, as long as one of them is within reach of a warlock. They apply their control automatically to everything in a 15 tile radius, and power every other pylon in a 30 tile radius. I might do some spells that give them some abilities... like the mothership core in starcraft II can allow the nexus to shoot for 60 seconds.
Post by: jaxy15 on January 16, 2014, 03:18:16 pm
Post by: Meph on January 16, 2014, 03:44:23 pm
Nightmares thirsty? lol. maybe they have a can_learn or intelligent tag in there somewhere.
These reports really help, thanks. :)
Post by: fricy on January 16, 2014, 04:05:11 pm
And: Are there any Discworld fans around here? I'm a big fan of Igors (http://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/index.php/Igor), and maybe they could fit the theme here as new evil minion type. They are natural surgeons, doctors, (vampire) assistants, assembled from different bodies, and each Igor is proud of the parts he is made of - often other Igors. Extra limbs, eyes, lips, stiches, humps are stylishly added when avaliable. They aren't real undead and they don't really die, only get reassembled... I know DW is a parody of the fantasy genre, but Igors are FUN! Anyone agree?
(And any way to randomly generate their body parts?)
Post by: jaxy15 on January 16, 2014, 04:08:39 pm
RE: Pitchforks - while at first glance they seem to fit the theme, on second thought these are the weapons that are usually wielded by the peasants in horror movies when they want to kill the evil scientists/wizards/etc. Maybe something more fitting would be more appropriate? Just a thought.I think they're supposed to be like the devil pitchforks.
Post by: fricy on January 16, 2014, 04:10:24 pm
RE: Pitchforks - while at first glance they seem to fit the theme, on second thought these are the weapons that are usually wielded by the peasants in horror movies when they want to kill the evil scientists/wizards/etc. Maybe something more fitting would be more appropriate? Just a thought.I think they're supposed to be like the devil pitchforks.
I guess, I didn't consider that. Ok, I'm sold.
Post by: Meph on January 16, 2014, 04:14:04 pm
I wouldnt know how to add them. The same goes for Dungeon Keeper Imps. Or Overlord Minions. Would love to have them. But what should they do? They are pointless as fighters, and would just be farmed for meat.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 16, 2014, 04:29:05 pm
Post by: mahrgell on January 16, 2014, 04:32:46 pm
Post by: Meph on January 16, 2014, 04:37:12 pm
Post by: shadowclasper on January 16, 2014, 04:46:30 pm
Well, if you don't mind me putting this in here, and it might solve our problems with skills not rising properly... so bear with me here.
What if there was a different caste for each kind of profession we want? Can you set the learning rate for some professions in a caste to 0% and raise that learning rate for others? So one caste might have only, for example, smithing labors. They can be enabled for other types of labors, but they'll never gain any skill in anything not related to smithing stuff.
So we have the following jobs.
Miner/Stoneworker: Combining these two. Perhaps skeletons? They're used for construction and shit and making crude stone objects? Though I'd put engraving with the crafter group.
Woodworker: No idea.
Ranger: Ghouls I think.
Doctor: Igores or Warlocks.
Farmer: No idea. Some kind of fungal being perhaps?
Fishery Worker: Deep Ones?
Metalsmith: Some kind of fire demon?
Jeweler: Maybe mix with stoneworker/miner? That or make it a Warlock profession involving turning gems into magical foci or something?
Crafter: No idea. Generalized minion?
Engineer: Gremlins/Minions? I dunno for this one.
Anyway. If you can set it up so that a caste can only gain skill in certain jobs or can only take certain labors, this might work. Skeletons could be set up as a general 'stop gap' group until you can attract members of the other castes. Without the ability to gain skill in anything, they'll never get their sprite changed over to the relevant laborer type right? (or is it triggered when the labor they do remains what they do, even when they're unskilled at it?)
That way we could have a vareity of races I guess. It'd just be an expansion on the differences between Ghoul and Skeleton at the end of the day?
Personally I'm still in favor of just skeletons and using them as tools. Additional castes might be cool, but ehn... I still think having a multitude of skeletons is pretty badass if they can be made to gain skill levels as something you craft onto them with a reaction rather than something they can learn naturally.
Post by: Meph on January 16, 2014, 05:07:23 pm
Quote
nor do I want to add more creatures with different graphics to the civ. For each one I add, I have to give 6 points in natural skills for 1 civilians skill and 1 combat skill, to each caste.
You just suggested that I add a multitude of castes that require different graphics, like deep ones, minions, gremlins, etc.
Post by: Meph on January 16, 2014, 06:37:01 pm
I added all buildmats to the manual. I added the chemist, a building that can make acid, clean rust, make oil and create a new trapcomp: an acid disperser loaded with acid flasks. They are usually non-lethal, but soften up the target and slow it down.
And pylons. I tried to give a reasonable explanation down below, but if anyone can come up with a simpler way of describing it, feel free to write a better text. Essentially you have to build a network of crystals to keep controling your undead servants.
(http://i.imgur.com/Yso5CR8.png)
How is that for nerfing too powerful undeads? :P
Post by: LMeire on January 16, 2014, 06:42:50 pm
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 16, 2014, 06:46:28 pm
Is that mean I can have my warlock chilling at his 15th floor penhouse while the pylon at the ground floor doing the control?
Will there be some in game warning sign that show us which skel is out of range, like some blinking "?"
Post by: shadowclasper on January 16, 2014, 06:56:12 pm
shadowclasper, sometimes I think you are never actually reading what is being written. I stated at least 5 times in this thread, and just 2 posts ago (!!!) again, that I cant do that.Quotenor do I want to add more creatures with different graphics to the civ. For each one I add, I have to give 6 points in natural skills for 1 civilians skill and 1 combat skill, to each caste.
You just suggested that I add a multitude of castes that require different graphics, like deep ones, minions, gremlins, etc.
arrrrrg.... that's not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying the distinction would be made the same as the ghouls and warlocks are from the skeletons if it was done at all. You'd set it up so that certain labors were only possible with certain castes. It's exactly what you've done with the Ghouls and Warlocks right now. Separate castes, with separate graphics, because they have separate labors and skills. I did read about not being able to make different graphics for different castes, and strictly that is true. But you can also bridge that gap (because you obviously already have) like how you did with ghouls and skeletons. Just like how you'll never have a skeleton or warlock lasher, only ghouls, so you'll never really have to worry about anybody but a ghoul appearing as a lasher.
I know I make mistakes in suggesting stuff or misunderstanding, but this at least I understand :S I'm sorry for the confusion I'm causing.
Post by: zach123b on January 16, 2014, 06:57:39 pm
Post by: Meph on January 16, 2014, 07:05:16 pm
Quote
Is that mean I can have my warlock chilling at his 15th floor penhouse while the pylon at the ground floor doing the control?Yes, you can have a warlock with a pylon in sight in your penthouse, and a pylon at the bottom. If its within 30 tiles of penthouse-pylon, it will power the pylon downstairs.
Will there be some in game warning sign that show us which skel is out of range, like some blinking "?"
The blinking signs: I'd love to. But yet again DF has a silly hurdle: You can only add them. Not remove them. I can make them blink for a short time, as soon as they get unpowered. But if I make them blink when they get unpowered, they will not stop blinking if they get powered. Display name is the same. I wanted to do "pylon (powered)" and "pylon (unpowered)", but I can only add those, not remove them. And they dont overwrite each other, so once it has a display name, thats it. No changes possible. Its maddening.
shadowclasper: Ghouls and Warlocks and Skeletons work, because they all have natural skills. Ghouls have 6 points in wrestling and butchery. both rather pointless. Warlocks have 6 points in Praying and Pike (you have no pikes). So again, both rather useless. Skeletons have 6 points in mining, and I didnt give them a combat skill yet. But they will get 6 points in a weapon skill. Probably blowgun/crossbow, because you cant make those. This is seriously OP already. For each caste I add, I have to do the same. If I add igors, deep ones, gremlins and minions, that another 48 skill points for free.
I have to use 6 points in civilian and soldier professions, to overwrite the max 5 points you can give at embark.
Post by: mahrgell on January 16, 2014, 07:28:16 pm
3 things:
a) I would suggest to make control radius and power radius the same. Yes this leads to double coverage for most areas, but in return simplifies the system, imho. But maybe this is just my personal preference ;) But it is imho much simpler, if you just say, the pylon powers everything (other pylon/skel) in that one radius
b) is it really a sphere? or a cube? So is really only one tile controlled on z+-15?
c) Those pylons are destructible? Because right now I just see everyone to build a pylon network 5 z levels below ground. Then no enemy will ever reach those and skels can fight on the surface without any issues.
If you want to make those pylons valuable and force the player to take care of his pylons (or at least invest a bit more in them by walling each of them in) you could (it it is possible) make them only transferring power/control on their zlevel and add a second type called transfer pylon that can not control skels, but power other pylons across zlevels. If you follow a), you could give those transfer pylons a longer range, but keep the control pylons at a range of 20 or something alike.
This would require control pylons on every level, where skels stay for longer times. No need for it in stairways, as they pass through those fairly quick anyway.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 16, 2014, 07:32:14 pm
I don't suppose a transformation would work? Rather than blinking you transform them between two states? Don't Pylons have to undergo a transformation in the first place once they're made in order to get them to do stuff? I recall that earlier on.
What if they start off as unpowered, and under go a transformation if a warlock is within the prerequisite distance? Becoming a powered pylon? Or is that what you mean by adding (Powered)/(Unpowered) to their name? Cause I thought a transformation was a total reset for the creature? Changing it completely?
Post by: Kaos on January 16, 2014, 07:34:22 pm
I made skeletons opposed to life, and you need Warlocks to keep them under control now. :) They are also no longer genderless, as this caused weird friendships and even marriages. They are now all male. Some of the warlock witches will still marry them, but hey, why not? ;)this gives a new meaning to "getting boned"! :P
Post by: Meph on January 16, 2014, 07:43:26 pm
Hm... about the pylons...Hehe, you suggest one thing to make it simpler, and one thing to make it harder. :P Ok, lets see: Doubling the control radius would mean you need only half the pylons. Reducing the power radius means you need twice the pylons. I did spend a lot of thought on the difference. Because you can set up pylons 30 tiles away, they are powered, and their control range with 2x15 just touches.
3 things:
a) I would suggest to make control radius and power radius the same. Yes this leads to double coverage for most areas, but in return simplifies the system, imho. But maybe this is just my personal preference ;) But it is imho much simpler, if you just say, the pylon powers everything (other pylon/skel) in that one radius
b) is it really a sphere? or a cube? So is really only one tile controlled on z+-15?
c) Those pylons are destructible? Because right now I just see everyone to build a pylon network 5 z levels below ground. Then no enemy will ever reach those and skels can fight on the surface without any issues.
If you want to make those pylons valuable and force the player to take care of his pylons (or at least invest a bit more in them by walling each of them in) you could (it it is possible) make them only transferring power/control on their zlevel and add a second type called transfer pylon that can not control skels, but power other pylons across zlevels. If you follow a), you could give those transfer pylons a longer range, but keep the control pylons at a range of 20 or something alike.
This would require control pylons on every level, where skels stay for longer times. No need for it in stairways, as they pass through those fairly quick anyway.
It should be a sphere. Its TARGET_RANGE:A:30, so... should be a sphere. But honestly there is no way to check, except building a very precise arena for this.
They are destructable. They are tiny, immobile creatures. The underground pylon network sounds awesome, but of course you spotted an exploit with only one glance... well... I can make them control only in line of sight, but power across zlevels, but I fear for mining-tunnels. Miners would constantly get confused while digging out ore-veins, because of all the bends and leaving the line of sight for long times.
This is one of these things that only long term testing can show. I know how to write both systems, but I have no idea how balanced they will be in the end. If everything fails: Use ghouls. ^^
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I don't suppose a transformation would work? Rather than blinking you transform them between two states? Don't Pylons have to undergo a transformation in the first place once they're made in order to get them to do stuff? I recall that earlier on.Every time a creature transforms in the mod, a popup shows up and the game pauses. If people have a 200 skeleton fort, with 100 pylons, and something happens to unpower part of your network, it will spam the living hell out of the player. It will also fully heal the pylon. I add their abilities with interactions btw, no need for transformation.
Kaos: 8) (I might actually have to take out witches, to ensure that the civ dies out in worldgen... but... but... I need female civ members for the Mistress noble. :( )
Post by: mahrgell on January 16, 2014, 07:54:53 pm
For checking those spheres:
Build pylon, build 13z, 9x and 9y away a small room, lock skel in it. Wait. End of test ^^ Not that much precision required ;)
If it is a cylinder or a cube the skel remains under control, if it is a sphere, it doesn't.
And about mining: As warlocks are supposed to shredder most rocks/ores anyway, is there any reason besides habit to dig out long winding tunnels instead of strip mining?
I would be more worried about stuff like sleeping rooms, unless you plan open dormitories for those skels. Warlocks with their insane needs luckily don't need pylons ^^
Post by: Meph on January 16, 2014, 08:03:00 pm
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shredder most rocksThey dont shredder rocks. Only ores.
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sleeping roomslol. Skeletons dont sleep. They dont need rooms. They dont have emotions, and wouldnt even feel bad about having none. They also dont need clothes, and therefore no chests/cabinets.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 16, 2014, 08:03:22 pm
Is there something they could do to attract attention to themselves? I know we discussed contaminents before... but... and just talking off the top of my head here. Can you have it so that while a Pylon is unpowered they drop a contaminent that will draw the attention of anybody with free time (such as your nonnoble warlocks who are walking around just learning spells) to clean them? Or heck, even if it doesn't attract a warlock, it could splash color onto the screen once a month to alert the player that there's a hole in their pylon network?. Drops it once a month or once every 3 months so people aren't constantly spending time cleaning it up, but still gives you a decent chance of seeing it happen?
Or does this run into the same problem of 'being able to add stuff but not take it away"? Would an unpowered pylon who began splashing purple 'pylon decay' in a 3x3 area around itself never stop doing so even if it was powered again?
Another possibility if that they produce an object like a soul right on their own tile so they'll start flashing back and forth with it, when they become unpowered? It obviously wouldn't be a soul, it'd be some sort of object that was a plant that wasn't used for any sort of reaction, wasn't edible, etc.
Pylon goes unpowered. Starts reaction that drops some kind of object with a long decay like an ethereal type item (heck, call it Etheric Warning Signal) onto it's own square. It's immobile, it'll never move.
The one problem is in how to prevent the object from being picked up and brought to a stockpile or refuse area... I don't suppose it could spawn as forbidden? Could a pylon produce and fire a piece of ammo at it's own space? (I don't think that's possible at all btw. Though it would be perfect since ammo auto forbids once it's fired. The problem lies in giving it equipment to shoot it, etc. Forget it. Probably wouldn't work.)
Just bouncing ideas around here. If it's just annoying at this point I'll shut up.
Post by: Meph on January 16, 2014, 08:52:47 pm
Post by: mikael grey on January 16, 2014, 09:20:01 pm
Post by: Neri on January 16, 2014, 09:39:20 pm
Post by: Meph on January 16, 2014, 09:43:22 pm
About the pylons, would it be possible that the control radious spreads through stone if the tile is DARK/INSIDE/UNDERGOUND and only work on Line of sight if its ABOVEGROUND/OUTSIDE? That would solve the 'underground pylon network' exploit. Not sure if thats even possible, just throwing an idea out there.no, thats not possible.
Just to clarify, are necromantic circles supposed to wreck themselves when the soul they were made with expires, much in the same way that things from the ethereal portal do?yes. Use Phylacteries, if you want a stable build material.
Post by: Meph on January 16, 2014, 09:47:00 pm
But I kicked the fountains of bone/blood/tears out. Makes no sense to add 3 workshops, just for 3 inorganics. I will add some summoning reactions to the abyss with these gems, tear/blood/bone of armok.
And skill learning for skeletons. :) thats also on the list.
EDIT: Somehow I think that this pic makes it a lot clearer. ^^
(http://i.imgur.com/fL7pq0M.png)
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 16, 2014, 10:17:58 pm
Suggestion, have some resction to create it, may be exchange some metal to gem via philosoper stone
Post by: shadowclasper on January 16, 2014, 11:33:17 pm
edit: Also, um, and sorry for doing the whole 'suggesting a way of doing it' type thing. So just going to ask a question before continuing the idea. But if I remember correctly, animals and pets and things that are generally friendly to your civilization as a whole will have status icons flashing when certain effects are going on with them? (Hungry, sleeping, etc?) Not just your own dwarves (or dwarf equivalents). Specifically merchants can have the various madness icons, and pastured animals can get the hunger icon right?
Post by: kamikazi1231 on January 17, 2014, 12:06:41 am
Post by: shadowclasper on January 17, 2014, 05:36:59 am
Alright, so using a syndrome with the CE_CAN_DO_INTERACTION interaction token. You can in give a creature a syndrome that will give them the MATERIAL_EMISSION Token. Specifically it can give them the UNDIRECTED_VAPOR or UNDIRECTED_GAS tokens. And when the syndrome is removed, it'll lose the the interaction, and thus stop breathing out vapor or gas or whatever.
This way we can have it so an Unpowered Pylon will gain a syndrome that causes it to produce clouds of some kind of gas or vapor that doesn't leave behind any residue. This'll create a big old honking sign to the player that one of their pylons isn't working properly, and they'll be able to rectify that immediately.
I seem to recall you saying that with DFHack you could set up scripts and autosyndromes right? So could you do that in this case? When a Pylon goes unpowered you can hit it with the syndrome, and when it becomes powered, you can cure it right?
assuming this all would work, you can just create some material that isn't otherwise present or used anywhere else with a low boiling point relative to normal temperature and have it form the vapor or mist. I'm not sure, but I recall reading on the wiki that if you give it a material to be a vapor or gas, it'll heat it up to the temperature necessary for that. So if we used blood or water or similar, it'd probably set loads of things on fire I'm guessing?
I hope this time I've actually contributed ^^;
Post by: Boltgun on January 17, 2014, 06:27:40 am
I made skeletons opposed to life, and you need Warlocks to keep them under control now. :) They are also no longer genderless, as this caused weird friendships and even marriages. They are now all male. Some of the warlock witches will still marry them, but hey, why not? ;)this gives a new meaning to "getting boned"! :P
I am late to the battle, but did you try NO_GENDER ?
Post by: Meph on January 17, 2014, 07:06:20 am
I might make their control radius larger, but restrict it to line of sight.
I started working on a workshop for skills for skeletons. Current idea is using 1 small gem and 1 soul to give them 1 skill. You can level them up in any labor, till legendary with this, but no combat skills. Any thoughts on that?
NO_GENDER. I kinda forgot about that. ^^ lol. Thanks Boltgun. I give it a try, but I guess it will fix everything.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 17, 2014, 07:14:16 am
Skeletons don't eat.
They don't sleep.
They don't do anything that would bring them back to centralized areas. Miners won't do anything except mine.
Unless you can give them something they need to return to a centralized location for regularly, and will do so regardless of player input, thus allowing us to set up traffic areas and such, skeletons will just putter around, doing their labors and nothing else won't they?
So miners will just keep mining for all eternity without stop until they're ordered to turn themselves in for upgrades or something else. In winding passages they'll get out of the LoS of the pylons regularly and for long periods of time. And if you have an efficient build for your fortress, it's likely that pylons will have to be placed every single room and even then it's going to cause problems.
As for the skill upgrade, sounds good! Though I'm wondering about gemless embarks.
Post by: Meph on January 17, 2014, 07:16:44 am
Post by: shadowclasper on January 17, 2014, 07:23:58 am
And how do we deal with situations like the embark having no gems or not enough gems? (Besides the super risky summoning building). Will warlocks have alternative means of getting gems besides mining (which might not be possible) and trade (which warlocks aren't supposed to get)? I suppose you could burrow down into the 2nd Cavern and pray you don't get over run from below...
edit: Something just hit me.... would dreadnaught skeleton miners be magma proof? And can skeletons work underwater? Cause it just hit me that a lot of the underground dangers are simply not there provided you keep your warlocks out of the way...
Post by: Kaos on January 17, 2014, 07:54:34 am
Post by: shadowclasper on January 17, 2014, 08:00:18 am
If they're not, then perhaps they could be used for the Butchers (working for the Fleshmonger) and a squad serving under the mistress?
Post by: Meph on January 17, 2014, 08:05:38 am
Tag for infertility is STERILE, which I already use. But they still marry, and its not a creature tag, its an interaction tag. It doesnt affect worldgen. All fort members have it, but worldgen creatures dont. I removed the child and baby tags from them completely, I hope thats enough.
Gem-free embark: Doesnt exist. Impossible. Without removing all gems from the raws you will never have an embark with no gems. I have genned thousands of worlds, never seen one with no gems.
I just added personality traits to the castes.
Ghouls are shy, angry, furious, untrusting cowards that like to hurt people, but have low selfconfidence.
Skeletons are super nice guys. They have strong sense of duty and friendlyness, altruism, helping others, high confidence and dont take breaks. They also have extreme love for art, nature and trust others completely. They are like curious, but naive kids. "I love nature and art, and want only to help" "Cut this tree in half" "ok, if you say so Master. :)"
Warlocks are normal humans will all ranges of personalities, but generally distrustfull bastards that dont like to help anyone and think that they are better and smarter. Supreme Egomaniacs with a liking to intellectual discussions.
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Are the fortress guard and royal guard sprites currently used for anything?these are noble sprites. I can make unlimited of those. I have to check how it works with soldiers that serve in specific squads.
EDIT: seems that squad members that are lead by the law_enforcer (sheriff) get a different sprite then other soldier. I could possible make a squad for the mistress that looks different from the rest. Not sure what to use this for, because the members of the squad will still be skeletons, ghouls and mages. Maybe call them Inquisition or Jailors or Turnkey.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 17, 2014, 08:21:02 am
Call them Gaolers.QuoteAre the fortress guard and royal guard sprites currently used for anything?these are noble sprites. I can make unlimited of those. I have to check how it works with soldiers that serve in specific squads.
EDIT: seems that squad members that are lead by the law_enforcer (sheriff) get a different sprite then other soldier. I could possible make a squad for the mistress that looks different from the rest. Not sure what to use this for, because the members of the squad will still be skeletons, ghouls and mages. Maybe call them Inquisition or Jailors or Turnkey.
Yeah. Those lead by the Sheriff take their sprites from that second pair of rows of military.
Royal guard take them from the last row, but I'm not entirely sure that they're still used since I can't find mention of them on the wiki at all. They used to be activated by having any governing noble (usually the baron) arriving. You needed them to be about 1/20th of your fortress to work.
So I dunno, Maybe you can somehow get the royal guard sprites to function as special sprites for the Butcher? Have skeletons covered in gore and flayed skins, especially bloody ghouls, red robed warlocks?
For the gaolers, I dunno. But the sprites for the warlocks should be female looking and just roleplay it.
edit: Also maybe change the child and baby sprites to ghouls rather than skeletons? I know that the ghouls are supposed to be undead and sterile too, but they make more sense as having children than anyone else except the warlocks who we don't want reproducing for power reasons.
Post by: razorback on January 17, 2014, 08:27:18 am
If a warlock came in the range of a pylon and then immediatelly leaves it again it will nevertheless be powered for a certain amount of time AND power adjacent pylons for this time aswell.
If a skeleton leaves a pylons reach it will stay controllable for a certain amount of time.
Right?^^
So it wouldn't be practically necessary to spam the whole map with pylons, but just the most frequented traffic areas...
Also: are skeletons not even going to meeting areas when unemployed?
if so, i could imagine a workshop reaktion 'warlocks call' wich lures the uncontrolled (or EVERY will-less creature for the fun) on the map to the workshop :)
Post by: Meph on January 17, 2014, 09:13:20 am
If a warlock once powers a pylon, all pylons will power themselves, yes. Its not even temporary, once powered up, they are fine. (until all warlocks die)
If the skeleton leaves the area, you have 1-2 weeks before it goes opposed to life. yes. So only the main area needs coverage. And things that are far away... you cant mine adamantine 100 z levels below, if the hauling takes too long.
Skeletons go the the meeting area, like everyone else.
You cant bait uncontrollable opposed to life creatures. ^^
Post by: Gamerlord on January 17, 2014, 10:11:12 am
Post by: Grimmash on January 17, 2014, 10:16:25 am
Another question - youmay have covered this, but can skeletons have tantrums and moods?
Post by: Meph on January 17, 2014, 10:39:20 am
I havent quite figured out a way to make more than one Pylon unpower, if no warlocks are in the network. Its pretty difficult to do. ^^ A lone pylon will unpower, but as long as you have 2 or more in an area, they power themselves. (EDIT: I would have to send impulses through the networks now and then, to check if a warlock is in the chain at some point, then disable the parts that dont have contact to at least one. But damn... that would add quite a bit in terms of interactions)
Skeletons cant tantrum. No idea about moods.
I also cant get these damn graphics to work. -.- It took quite a while to make them. ^^
Post by: razorback on January 17, 2014, 11:06:24 am
but how i imagine it could be possible:
everytime a warlock comes near a pylon he makes something that gives that pylon the information (a tag?) wich lets it power every adjacent pylon for a certain time but that won't give those other this tag aswell.
a warlock would perform this action on every pylon he passes by (maybe limited times a year), so the total time thats left is always set from the last pylon he visited.
Post by: Meph on January 17, 2014, 11:08:58 am
Post by: mahrgell on January 17, 2014, 12:03:10 pm
If so, you could just give each pylon an ActiveID(=0 if inactive), and when having 2 pylons in range of each other, they both get the maximum of their ActiveID's. If a Warlock enters a pylonrange he generates a new (counting upwards) ActiveID, giving it to the pylon.
This way each pylon will be only powered once per warlock contact, they will transfer this power further but not be repowered by it.
But as i said, I don't know how similar DF modding is to normal programming :D
Post by: jaxy15 on January 17, 2014, 12:12:08 pm
But as i said, I don't know how similar DF modding is to normal programming :DDF modding is very different, and much easier. It's like text Legos.
Post by: Meph on January 17, 2014, 12:13:30 pm
Unfortunately the text legos dont allow me to build such stuff. Well, maybe, but it would be unnecessarily complex.
Post by: Teneb on January 17, 2014, 12:16:03 pm
That interactions hits the pylon with a syndrome that temporarily gives them the above-mentioned SYN_CLASS and the same interaction.
Post by: Meph on January 17, 2014, 12:30:55 pm
EDIT: After reading that text, even I didnt quite understand what I was saying. I should probably wait till I release the next test version, and see what the people say to the code. ^^
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 17, 2014, 01:48:09 pm
I can resurrect some skelaton ( 2 out of 3) butI can't resurrect my warlock.
I try put him in stockpile near alter, put him in coffin next to it, dump him next to it, I even dump him into it :P
But Mr. Warlock seem to have enough of my shit and never come back :'(
Is it because his body is already partial skelaton?
Post by: Meph on January 17, 2014, 02:26:11 pm
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already partial skeleton?Yep. There is a good chance that this is the case. ^^
Post by: Meph on January 17, 2014, 03:44:16 pm
I added new soldier graphics, but I couldnt make them show up ingame so far. Lets see what the modding help thread can come up with. Or someone here knows whats up: I want to use the LAW_ENFORCE and TAX_COLLECTOR graphic tags, to make different squads look differently. Here my post about it:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The graphics look like this, but as I said, I couldnt make them work ingame.
(http://i.imgur.com/qw48Lno.png)
I added a new workshop, the Inscriptor. It can engrave skills into skeletons. Take a skeleton, a gem and a soul, and raise any skill by one point. This means for 15 gems and 15 souls you can have a legendary crafter. Or you could have invested the souls for something else, like 15 new skeletons. It will only teach non-combat skills (skeletons learn these by themselves), and non-warlock skills, like herbalism, alchemy and chemistry, gemcutting/setting or writing/praying.
I added more info on the summoned pets into the manual, and updated the pylon description a bit, using the new, clearer picture.
I added NO_GENDER to skeletons, which solves that problem.
I made powered pylons blink with a cyan 'P'. :)
I upgraded soul wisps with an AoE slow attack, which reduces enemy speed by 50% for a week. I also changed the pain elementals graphics, they are a lot bigger now. They also cost more. I added a price to the black monolith, which was lacking one. Costs 1 totem and 10 blocks.
I also added personalities to the castes.
Ghouls are shy, angry, furious, untrusting cowards that like to hurt people, but have low selfconfidence.
Skeletons are super nice guys. They have strong sense of duty and friendlyness, altruism, helping others, high confidence and dont take breaks. They also have extreme love for art, nature and trust others completely. They are like curious, but naive kids. "I love nature and art, and want only to help" "Cut this tree in half" "ok, if you say so Master. :)"
Warlocks are normal humans will all ranges of personalities, but generally distrustfull bastards that dont like to help anyone and think that they are better and smarter. Supreme Egomaniacs with a liking to intellectual discussions.
(http://i.imgur.com/uLhP1iy.png)
Tomorrow I want to do those warlock-specific animated weapons someone mentioned, like animated scythes and pitchforks that fly around, and add more demons to the Abyss. Then clean everything up a bit, and maybe upload another test version. :) Oh, and I still need an idea for the Herbalist workshop.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 17, 2014, 05:08:16 pm
Post by: Meph on January 17, 2014, 05:26:43 pm
shadowclasper: The problem is just that you try to suggest how to do thing, without the background knowledge to actually do so.
Also, um, and sorry for doing the whole 'suggesting a way of doing it' type thing.
...
Post by: DoX on January 17, 2014, 06:00:11 pm
shadowclasper: The problem is just that you try to suggest how to do thing, without the background knowledge to actually do so.Also, um, and sorry for doing the whole 'suggesting a way of doing it' type thing.
...
... Kay.
So! Moving on.
Will the inscription system be the same way we get those fancy elemental skeletons you mentioned? We've already got the whole rune system for weapons and armor. Heck, since we've already got chemistry covering most reactions, we could just turn herbalism into the whole rune profession.
Oh! Can the inscription system be applied to animated armors and weapons too?
Also, for the sake of convenience, I'd say extend how long skeletons can remain autonomous outside pylon control. Say a month. Makes mining and recon/hunting through military easier, and it preserves the purpose of warlocks-die-fortress-collapse. That's just me though. Great work so far!
Post by: Meph on January 17, 2014, 06:19:13 pm
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We've already got the whole rune system for weapons and armor. Heck, since we've already got chemistry covering most reactions, we could just turn herbalism into the whole rune profession.Wait... we dont have any runes. I havent written anything for weapons and armor yet, and I didnt want to use runes or the SPATTER_ADD system, but itemsyndrome. And chemistry is covering only the reactions in the chemist... the acids and rust removal. Did you mean the ALCHEMY skill? (which is renamed Sorcery ingame)
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Will the inscription system be the same way we get those fancy elemental skeletons you mentioned?In so far that a skeleton walks to a workshop, does something, and the effect is applied: Yes. The skeleton worker goes to the building and runs the reaction, which triggers a script. No transformations involved.
You could even train up a ironbone skeleton to master-skill, transform him into a dreadnought skeleton, and later teach him grandmaster and legendary skill. No problem.
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Oh! Can the inscription system be applied to animated armors and weapons too?Theoratically. Not exactly the same, you would have to pasture the animated items on the workshop, and someone else does the reaction (because animals cant do the labor), but it could add skills to them, yes. I already do this in dwarf-mode with animal training in the war kennels.
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Also, for the sake of convenience, I'd say extend how long skeletons can remain autonomous outside pylon control. Say a month. Makes mining and recon/hunting through military easier, and it preserves the purpose of warlocks-die-fortress-collapse. That's just me though. Great work so far!I will first wait for feedback from people that actually played with the pylons, before I change balance again.
Post by: migshark on January 17, 2014, 06:27:17 pm
I'm also somewhat worried over the gem supply. While you'll always have gems available to be mined, I normally do as little mining as possible to reduce pathing and stone clutter. Having alternative sources of essential items when playing other races is one of the best ways of avoiding FPS death IMO.
I'm in favour of LoS pylons as I really think it would be a fun and tactical flavour of difficulty to handle. As for the miners problem... would it be possible to have magic picks that let their power last longer? Miniature, mobile pylon-pets that can periodically zap worthless stone boulders to create (or really just simultaneously emit) a short-term power-pulse - or just give the ability to skeletons?
Post by: Meph on January 17, 2014, 06:37:18 pm
Artifical gems are planned. made from glass and metal dust.
pylon-picks: Lol, yeah, just from a modding perspective that can be done. But like I said: before I balance pylon stuff, I want to see how people play with it in the first place.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 17, 2014, 06:43:17 pm
You'd also avoid the whole 'massive list of skills' problem.
Post by: migshark on January 17, 2014, 06:52:05 pm
Shortcut reactions: Certainly possible, but it would add to the already long list of reactions. It would mean a lot of scrolling in the workshop menu.
Artifical gems are planned. made from glass and metal dust.
pylon-picks: Lol, yeah, just from a modding perspective that can be done. But like I said: before I balance pylon stuff, I want to see how people play with it in the first place.
Hmm, I suppose as long as the 1+1=1 reactions at the top it wouldn't really hurt (apart from visual clutter) would it? The only people needing to scroll would be the ones using the shortcuts. I'd hoped they could be nested or something though.
Must have missed the mention of artificial gems, oops and yay.
Will look forward to how things pan out, I'm really liking this race so far.
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 17, 2014, 08:02:29 pm
Can it be fix? Cause the 3 month cooldown will make it imposible to do it many timeQuotealready partial skeleton?Yep. There is a good chance that this is the case. ^^
Or some warning to player like, your warlock have been found dead, do something before his soul depart to underworld!
Or at least write in the manual that you have to do it before his body rot.
Post by: Denisac on January 17, 2014, 08:28:32 pm
Kind of figure anything herbalist for a warlock would be dessicated/rot or embalming related. That is at least the general theme I am sensing here.
Post by: Meph on January 17, 2014, 08:34:57 pm
Denisac: Yes, I wanted to go that direction. Catapult ammo mostly. We already have this trap-part thing with the acid from the chemist.
I wouldnt know what to do with embalming, DF is very limited when it comes to things you can do with corpses that are items.
Skills: I will come up with something. currently I tend towards making it 3 times more expensive, but adding 3 skills each reaction. Thats already 3 times less micromanagement. 5 reactions till a skeleton reaches legendary. That should be enough.
Post by: Denisac on January 17, 2014, 08:48:27 pm
Would say poisons also, but I think you probably already covered that sort of thing elsewhere.
Post by: Meph on January 17, 2014, 09:01:48 pm
Chuck catapult ammo like this into a siege, look at voodooified soldiers fighting normal soldiers.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 17, 2014, 09:51:30 pm
Post by: Denisac on January 17, 2014, 10:04:15 pm
Use a soul and a totem to make a floating skull at a voodoo workshop?
What would such a construct do in your mind? Floating skulls are cool and all, but throw some ideas in there on what it'd do.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 17, 2014, 10:06:59 pm
Alternatively, flys up to somebody, latches onto their head like a perverse helmet, possesses them and turns them into a thrall or something.
Other option is totems being converted into ammo. Skull hurling catapults is a staple of evil armies.
Post by: Denisac on January 17, 2014, 10:26:14 pm
Am thinking along the lines of the classic evil wizard and their long lost artifact of power.
Post by: mikael grey on January 18, 2014, 08:37:43 am
An immobile entity that cast/interacts a debuff on the skulls/totem material race invaders.
Example - goblins ambush encounters a line of goblin skull totems get a debuff of some sort.
Post by: Meph on January 18, 2014, 08:44:59 am
Expanding on the soul + skull/totem idea:That would work. I dont have race specific skulls, but I do have race specific scalps and souls. :)
An immobile entity that cast/interacts a debuff on the skulls/totem material race invaders.
Example - goblins ambush encounters a line of goblin skull totems get a debuff of some sort.
Post by: jaxy15 on January 18, 2014, 08:47:49 am
Post by: mikael grey on January 18, 2014, 08:50:05 am
Expanding on the soul + skull/totem idea:That would work. I dont have race specific skulls, but I do have race specific scalps and souls. :)
An immobile entity that cast/interacts a debuff on the skulls/totem material race invaders.
Example - goblins ambush encounters a line of goblin skull totems get a debuff of some sort.
Well, soul, scalp, skull... irrelevant! I just want an awesome tower/fortress with an approach littered with totems made from my enemies! And some sort of debuff/effect would fit with the twisted warlock/voodoo style.
Post by: Meph on January 18, 2014, 08:55:07 am
Or I make them items, that can be worn by the military, and they add an AoE effect around the creature. That would actually make most sense. "Breatplate decorated with goblin skulls => gives nerfs to all goblins near the creature that wears that breastplate". :)
And I just had some good ideas for my epic uber spell workshop. :) More on that later.
Post by: Meph on January 18, 2014, 08:55:39 am
So, day 18 will be just a whole bunch of floating inanimate things?No, I dont think I will spend all day on these. Most of them are done already.
Post by: mikael grey on January 18, 2014, 08:56:27 am
Only problem: The attackers would destroy these totems on sight. Because the totems would count as creatures. I could make them workshops, but then you would have to run one reaction in them once every time invaders show up, like "intimidate goblin invaders with the totem".
Or I make them items, that can be worn by the military, and they add an AoE effect around the creature. That would actually make most sense. "Breatplate decorated with goblin skulls => gives nerfs to all goblins near the creature that wears that breastplate". :)
And I just had some good ideas for my epic uber spell workshop. :) More on that later.
Debuffing skull decorated armor? Even better! Meph you are awesome!
Post by: Morrigi on January 18, 2014, 02:11:44 pm
Only problem: The attackers would destroy these totems on sight. Because the totems would count as creatures. I could make them workshops, but then you would have to run one reaction in them once every time invaders show up, like "intimidate goblin invaders with the totem".
Or I make them items, that can be worn by the military, and they add an AoE effect around the creature. That would actually make most sense. "Breatplate decorated with goblin skulls => gives nerfs to all goblins near the creature that wears that breastplate". :)
And I just had some good ideas for my epic uber spell workshop. :) More on that later.
Debuffing skull decorated armor? Even better! Meph you are awesome!
Heh, I like that. Maybe allow you to improve weapons and armor by decorating them with a given type of bone as well, for various effects?
Post by: Meph on January 18, 2014, 02:20:26 pm
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given type of boneThere is only one type of bone in the mod. So I cant really do that.
Quote
Debuffing skull decorated armor? Even better!I will have a look at it tomorrow. :) But it should be no big problem. I just need to check orc mode and the correct syntax for scalps.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 18, 2014, 02:38:08 pm
Also, just realized something. Once the ability in the next vanilla update happens for civilizations to keep active even when they're off screen. How are plagues and such going to effect that?
Post by: Meph on January 18, 2014, 02:45:55 pm
Post by: Meph on January 18, 2014, 03:36:56 pm
I added minions today. :) Each warlock now summons 4 of them automatically at embark.
Three new spells: Bloodspike, Bloodhail and Web. For the libraries.
I finished the Grand Convocation, your highest high tier building. Let me know what you think, description is below.
I finished writing the "Getting Started" section of the manual.
I wrote the animated weapon creatures for warlocks, but havent quite finished the reactions/costs etc yet. Since its 21 (7 weapons X 3 materials) I am almost inclined to give them their own workshop. Arcane Forge or something like that.
I fixed Bloodbeasts, which were crashing the game. >:(
Ebonforge can now create artifical gems from ruby glass, cobalt glass, ashland glass or ebony glass.
shredders can now grind adamantine and slade. Slade is currently used in the Abyss, Adamantine not used so far.
I finished the Abyss. Late game demon summoning. :) Costs souls, obviously. ;)
(http://i.imgur.com/TaWzXVc.png)
Still havent gotten around to the Herbalist. ^^ But got more suggestions today, so expect to see bone/skull/scalp decorated armor floating around in the next update. Hopefully. Its certainly on the list. ;)
Post by: jaxy15 on January 18, 2014, 03:48:14 pm
Post by: Meph on January 18, 2014, 03:53:13 pm
And here is the next test version. :)
Post by: shadowclasper on January 18, 2014, 04:16:01 pm
Also how do the banners and such work? Are they just reactions? Or actual items? If they're destroyed or taken off the map will the abilities they grant disappear? (I'm guessing no given what you've said earlier)
Post by: Meph on January 18, 2014, 04:46:18 pm
But if you have 10 skeletons, build the skeleton banner, these 10 will be in control forever. Even if the banner dies. If you build 10 more skeletons while the banner is alive, the 20 skeletons will be in control forever. But if the banner dies, and you build 10 new skeletons then, these new skeletons wont have the bonus.
In short: The banners affect all creatures on the map, forever. If the banner dies, new creatures dont have it.
Robe of scalps: Yeah, possible. I might even completely change the reagents for the better books. "This is a human-skin bound book" sounds about right. I just use the scalps as reagents for the higher tier books. should be possible.
Post by: zlurker on January 18, 2014, 04:52:35 pm
Post by: Meph on January 18, 2014, 05:02:13 pm
Quote
Hostlistic SpawnUps, wrote that wrong in the manual. Holistic Detective it is. ^^ Good book btw.
Post by: jaxy15 on January 18, 2014, 05:03:30 pm
Post by: Meph on January 18, 2014, 05:11:36 pm
Since I have gotten a ebookreader it has gone up. 3-7 per week... I adore books. And I dont have a job. (and no TV) ;) Its mostly fiction though, its more of an entertainment for me, like other people watch TV. I am currently reading the Shadowrun books, I got 1-50 on my kindle. :)
(actually, now that I think of it: The last weeks I havent read any. Since christmas. Damn. Too much website and modding)
Post by: Meph on January 18, 2014, 06:07:50 pm
I can make it rain any inorganic material in cloud form... or any other material from this list: miasma, mist, mist2, dust, lavamist, smoke, dragonfire, firebreath, web, oceanwave, seafoam.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Rain of shadow webs anyone? Dragonfire and Sulphur? How about a nice cooling mist? A evil thralling rain? A good healing rain?
Post by: Meph on January 18, 2014, 07:32:52 pm
Kill dwarf.
Butcher dwarf corpse.
Get soul and bones and all that usual stuff.
Get dwarf scalp.
Make dwarf skin cover.
Write book => "This is a dwarf skin-bound book".
"This is a human skin-bound Codex of Vampirism."
Spoiler: disgusting picture of said book. (click to show/hide)
I like it. It also slows down the progress in the libraries down quite a bit, because you only get books if you kill sapient being for it. :)
You can also use the scalps for the armor decorations, I will have a look at them now. Each one should give nerfs/buffs for this specific race. So a armor with "drow-skin decorations" should help against drow, and so forth. Will take a while to set this up, but its certainly possible.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 18, 2014, 07:37:49 pm
Otherwise some way to raid villages for raw materials.
Post by: CaptainArchmage on January 18, 2014, 08:03:17 pm
Post by: Meph on January 18, 2014, 08:06:21 pm
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So how do we trigger sapient invasions?Emissary Quarters. Possibly from the raiding system as well.
Quote
If we set the number of procedurally generated HFS to 1,000, does the reaction allow summoning any of the 1000 or is it just limited to the first 20?20. I have to set the reaction for each one individually. I can make one for 1000, but it would be seriously buggy if you play in a world that doesnt have 1000. ;) Usually its 26, so I thought 20 is a save number. I can also raise the demon number in the worldgen files to 100 by default, and make the reaction have a 1% chance for each. Thats about the most reasonable I can think of.
Forgotten beasts and titans would work the same, but titan number is very small, so I dont dare touch it with reactions. FBs I could add.... lots. :)
Post by: Denisac on January 18, 2014, 08:16:41 pm
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 18, 2014, 08:16:41 pm
Ok, I will use scalps to make skin-covers.Please don't forget about fortress defence race, these guy love to pay me a visit a lot :D
Kill dwarf.
Butcher dwarf corpse.
Get soul and bones and all that usual stuff.
Get dwarf scalp.
Make dwarf skin cover.
Write book => "This is a dwarf skin-bound book".
"This is a human skin-bound Codex of Vampirism."Spoiler: disgusting picture of said book. (click to show/hide)
I like it. It also slows down the progress in the libraries down quite a bit, because you only get books if you kill sapient being for it. :)
You can also use the scalps for the armor decorations, I will have a look at them now. Each one should give nerfs/buffs for this specific race. So a armor with "drow-skin decorations" should help against drow, and so forth. Will take a while to set this up, but its certainly possible.
Post by: Meph on January 18, 2014, 08:24:17 pm
Noted a game crash with the spider pit with v.4. Tried building one without the available thread. Got through the five blocks and then it asked for <blank>. Immediate crash when I tried selecting the blank item for the building.I know what this is. The game counts the webs on the map as well. So your dwarf thinks: Yeah, lets build this building with the webs/thread from the undiscovered third cavern, and BAM!, blackout and game over. I will change it.
Quote
Please don't forget about fortress defence race, these guy love to pay me a visit a lot :DMaybe. Its a lot of races. ^^ (wait. They are all babysnatchers, arent they? dont they trade with you then? do FD races trade with the current orcs?)
Edit2: Well, whatever. They have scalps now. Generic "skin scalp" for all FD races. I will not do specific reactions for those. Too many, and they are off by default anyway. But you can scalp all FD races now (also in orc mode) and make generic "skin-bound books" from them.
Post by: Octobomb on January 18, 2014, 09:31:29 pm
Spoiler: Sekrit (click to show/hide)
In (more serious) terms, those minions look very cool. Also, I want a balrog.
Post by: Arcvasti on January 18, 2014, 09:32:24 pm
I'm slightly concerned about the fire mephits. I think starting with a fire-starting creature and being hostile to wildlife could make for a very short game. I seem to recall a similar problem with embarking with a fire mage in dwarf mode. Just my 2 cents.
Post by: Meph on January 18, 2014, 09:38:55 pm
I'm really liking where this is going. Keep up the good work Meph!I thought about that too, then decided I call it... a feature. Your skeletons are fireproof, and your warlocks should survive something like that too.
I'm slightly concerned about the fire mephits. I think starting with a fire-starting creature and being hostile to wildlife could make for a very short game. I seem to recall a similar problem with embarking with a fire mage in dwarf mode. Just my 2 cents.
Octobomb: What are you working on? I thought you did torture chambers? :P
Post by: Arcvasti on January 18, 2014, 09:44:14 pm
Ah, makes sense. I like the theme of that too: Dwarves come to an embark and start digging, while Warlocks come to an embark and burn it to the ground.I'm really liking where this is going. Keep up the good work Meph!I thought about that too, then decided I call it... a feature. Your skeletons are fireproof, and your warlocks should survive something like that too.
I'm slightly concerned about the fire mephits. I think starting with a fire-starting creature and being hostile to wildlife could make for a very short game. I seem to recall a similar problem with embarking with a fire mage in dwarf mode. Just my 2 cents.
Post by: Octobomb on January 18, 2014, 10:02:23 pm
Spoiler: Idea (click to show/hide)
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 18, 2014, 10:16:45 pm
They are all babysnatchers, arent they? dont they trade with you then? do FD races trade with the current orcs?Well,somehow I fight them in both warlock and orcs fort
And thank for the scalp ^^
Post by: Meph on January 18, 2014, 10:49:41 pm
I dont know ^^ If they cant speak they are always hostile to everyone. But yeah, they have scalps, and you can bind books with those. "skin-bound book".They are all babysnatchers, arent they? dont they trade with you then? do FD races trade with the current orcs?Well,somehow I fight them in both warlock and orcs fort
And thank for the scalp ^^
'Fraid not. Time and life hate me at the moment, like I said. Torture chambers are so... interconnected. Which is complicated. But I'll definitely check what you've done when you do it, or expand it or do a little at some point when I can. But this project is designable from my phone, and far simpler.I have runes for weapons and armor, but they dont add interactions. Only tags, like NOFEAR or NOSLEEP and such. I wanted to do a Thaumaturg for dwarves that makes magical items for ... a long time, but never got around doing it. But I will certainly add something like this for Warlocks. The spiked and skin-decorated armor works the same way.Spoiler: Idea (click to show/hide)
Quote
Ah, makes sense. I like the theme of that too: Dwarves come to an embark and start digging, while Warlocks come to an embark and burn it to the ground.Maybe. ^^ I havent seen any embarks that burn down ingame... its not supposed to happen. It will destroy your wagon and items. and clothing.
And...
(http://i.imgur.com/NnIZj0L.png)
Post by: Denisac on January 18, 2014, 10:51:40 pm
Post by: Meph on January 18, 2014, 10:58:18 pm
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUILD_PYLON] is missing from the entity file. Just add it to the entity_warlock_civ and gen a new world.
If you want pylons now, mark a unit with 'v', then go the dfhack and type: "spawn CRYSTAL 0 Pylon", without the "". It will spawn a pylon for you.
Post by: Arcvasti on January 18, 2014, 11:08:39 pm
Post by: Meph on January 18, 2014, 11:09:56 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on January 18, 2014, 11:14:53 pm
clean all should be fine. You can clean the specific item, but I think clean all doesnt cause any problems with this.
Phew, I'm glad that doesn't conflict. This just made my kobold fort 10x cleaner since I was afraid to clean items in fear of erasing my hexed orichalcum weapons.
EDIT: Just had an idea about the pylon thing: What if there were dwarven priest enemies or something that temporarily un-powered pylons within a certain radius? Like you had a pylon network 1 z-level below the surface to let your skeletons run rampant over the surface. And then in battle, the enemy disables them to wreak havoc. It'd sort of solve the exploit of putting just barely underground pylons to control the surface. Plus it'd add a bit more difficulty to the slightly overpowered warlocks.
Post by: Meph on January 18, 2014, 11:20:04 pm
This plugin makes reactions with names starting with SPATTER_ADD_ produce contaminants on the items instead of improvements. The produced contaminants are immune to being washed away by water or destroyed by the clean items command.
:)
Post by: Remuthra on January 18, 2014, 11:21:33 pm
Post by: zach123b on January 18, 2014, 11:23:50 pm
and 2 cheat reactions in the still so ima switch the reaction in through those :P
Post by: Meph on January 18, 2014, 11:27:59 pm
My mistake.
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BUILD_PYLON] is missing from the entity file. Just add it to the entity_warlock_civ and gen a new world.
If you want pylons now, mark a unit with 'v', then go the dfhack and type: "spawn CRYSTAL 0 Pylon", without the "". It will spawn a pylon for you.
Post by: zlurker on January 19, 2014, 01:32:54 am
Post by: Meph on January 19, 2014, 01:49:28 am
Post by: Denisac on January 19, 2014, 03:14:12 am
Post by: Vabalokis on January 19, 2014, 03:23:37 am
Post by: Meph on January 19, 2014, 03:42:33 am
Was playing with v.4 and was having issues getting anyone to make a traction bench to build the torture chamber. Tried ghoul, skeleton and lock with no luck.Traction bench is hardcoded, Mechanics, as always. No way I can influence that.
Post by: Meph on January 19, 2014, 09:17:44 am
Dungeon for prisoners. They transform into a generic "prisoner" creature with grazing, and slowly starve to death. If they die, you get a skeleton.
They can be brought to the torture chamber before that happens, and tortured for information. If they die, you get a ghost.
you can also corrupt them, and you get a ghoul.
Something along these lines. Straight from dungeon keeper.
Post by: Octobomb on January 19, 2014, 09:44:33 am
I have runes for weapons and armor, but they dont add interactions. Only tags, like NOFEAR or NOSLEEP and such. I wanted to do a Thaumaturg for dwarves that makes magical items for ... a long time, but never got around doing it. But I will certainly add something like this for Warlocks. The spiked and skin-decorated armor works the same way.Cool. Do like. I'm going to try and mainly focus on gauntlets, for 'active' powers for now.
(http://i.imgur.com/NnIZj0L.png)
Do you think I should start up a dev thread (to help keep me motivated) in general modding?
Post by: Meph on January 19, 2014, 10:42:30 am
Quote
Do you think I should start up a dev thread (to help keep me motivated) in general modding?Why do you ask me? I dont even know exactly what you are doing, and how much it will be. :P
Post by: Octobomb on January 19, 2014, 11:21:20 am
Sleep-addled me knows well enough to try and fetch advice before doing something dumb (in this case, asking was the dumb thing to do. Paradox anyone?). Well, I'll do a bit more work on it - namely trying to get the gloves to work in arena mode first - itemsyndrome acknowledges their presence but they won't use them. Grrr.QuoteDo you think I should start up a dev thread (to help keep me motivated) in general modding?Why do you ask me? I dont even know exactly what you are doing, and how much it will be. :P
Post by: Meph on January 19, 2014, 11:28:30 am
Post by: shadowclasper on January 19, 2014, 12:58:23 pm
Post by: Meph on January 19, 2014, 01:08:33 pm
Post by: shadowclasper on January 19, 2014, 01:13:42 pm
Anyway, been thinking that the really terribly powerful spells with lots of friendly fire, I'm going to restrict to the 4 riders. More targetted spells can go into general use by all of my warlocks, but anything super 'splosiony is going to be reserved for those 4. Since that seems to be their duty. Go in alone, kill everything.
Post by: Meph on January 19, 2014, 03:31:40 pm
I added the Overlord. You can transform ONE of your warlocks into your warlock leader. He gets different abilities. For example he can slap other warlocks, making them faster but causing pain, and he can summon minions once a year. Not absolutely finished, I have quite a bit to do on it still.
I added scalps and skin-bound books. Books now do not use leather, but only sapient-race skins. This means only invaders you butcher. The more you kill, the more materials you unlock for books and libraries.
The scalps/skins can also be used to decorate armors, which will give buffs against the race. I havent written the manual about it yet, that comes tomorrow. But you can decorate a breastplate with dwarf-skin, and all dwarves fighting against you get negative effects.
You can also decorate the armor with bone spikes, which gives an extra tackle attack that causes bleeding and pain.
I added the animated weapons and armor to the Enchanter.
I added a new building, the Academy, a trainings building for Warlocks. :)
(http://i.imgur.com/pQkYdgY.png)
Post by: Arcvasti on January 19, 2014, 03:38:59 pm
Dev Log - Day 19
I added the Overlord. You can transform ONE of your warlocks into your warlock leader. He gets different abilities. For example he can slap other warlocks, making them faster but causing pain, and he can summon minions once a year.
This is beautiful.
Post by: Meph on January 19, 2014, 03:44:47 pm
Its heavily Dungeon Keeper inspired. I got a textfile with all the quotes from the first game. I plan to build them in, as announcements. Mostly for the rainding system. :)Dev Log - Day 19
I added the Overlord. You can transform ONE of your warlocks into your warlock leader. He gets different abilities. For example he can slap other warlocks, making them faster but causing pain, and he can summon minions once a year.
This is beautiful.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 19, 2014, 03:45:42 pm
Post by: Octobomb on January 19, 2014, 05:09:38 pm
Post by: shadowclasper on January 19, 2014, 05:16:13 pm
But they'd never insult your mother. Perfectly gentlemanly and polite for the most part.
Post by: Meph on January 19, 2014, 05:20:17 pm
I advocate you name one of the studying reactions after DnD. It's too good an opportunity to miss.I never played DnD. I wouldnt know how.
They are all called "Study Skill-name with Pen&Paper" (because you need ink and paper to study, so pen&paper can also mean that. For people that dont know what a pen & paper rpg is)
Post by: Octobomb on January 19, 2014, 05:30:03 pm
I've never played Dungeons and Dragons either, but just add another reaction titled 'Play Dungeons and Dragons'. I was intentionally playing off of the dual meaning. Or if you like, play 'Play modern setting tabletop game'. I'm sure a lot of people would crack a smile.I advocate you name one of the studying reactions after DnD. It's too good an opportunity to miss.I never played DnD. I wouldnt know how.
They are all called "Study Skill-name with Pen&Paper" (because you need ink and paper to study, so pen&paper can also mean that. For people that dont know what a pen & paper rpg is)
I just had this vision of Warlocks as DF forum members... discussing horrendous tortures, horrible infections, new magics to fuck with dwarves and humans... all in the name of !!SCIENCE!!DF: The only game where all the forum members are lizard men, mantis, pathos, pawns of Xantalos, dolphins and now warlocks. At the same time.
But they'd never insult your mother. Perfectly gentlemanly and polite for the most part.
Post by: Meph on January 19, 2014, 05:41:01 pm
I just had this vision of Warlocks as DF forum members... discussing horrendous tortures, horrible infections, new magics to fuck with dwarves and humans... all in the name of !!SCIENCE!!
But they'd never insult your mother. Perfectly gentlemanly and polite for the most part.
Since we are already on the topic: How about a new branch of solid warlock industry: Prisoners.
(http://i.imgur.com/2A9EoZA.png)
Post by: Octobomb on January 19, 2014, 05:53:07 pm
Executions were basically a public holiday in ye olde England - a family day out. And the South Americans were always finding new and inventive ways to rip hearts out before the masses. Give players different execution methods, say. Each one gives a bonus to the crowd (i.e operator gets free action interaction lasting 100 ticks to bestow benefits like speed boosts etc) and/or appease the gods (do warlocks believe) eg. cut enemy stats. Possible? Sound any good?
Post by: Meph on January 19, 2014, 06:00:42 pm
It might be possible to search prisoners for items, corrupt prisoners into ghouls... I also very much would like for prisoners that die from starvation (e.g. the player neglected his duties) to come back as some form of poltergeist that topples buildings/workshops. I think thats possible by spawning a friendly (!) buildingdestroyer 2. You would have to actively hunt them down.
Prisoners should also be available for attacks by undeads, so you have to build the prison area walled off from the zombies somewhere.
Raiding system is something I want to try tomorrow. But I need sleep now.
DISCUSS AWAY TILL THEN! :)
Post by: shadowclasper on January 19, 2014, 07:10:34 pm
Definitely think the Martyr's Last Rights should be a Sacrificial Alter instead.
Are prisoners captured during raids? Or can we convert attackers into prisoners?
Is a separate set of rooms used for Ghoulifying? And if so, are any special reagents needed? (would be interesting if evil plants were necessary to do it quickly, while a longer term process would do it slowly over time?)
How is information used? Is it an item? So we get 'information on X' that is used as a process of launching a raid upon another place? And what kind of building is used for launching raids?
Prisoners should also be used for experiments. Can they be used to speed up spell research somehow? Kill them and research speed increases? You still get the soul, but you only have a small percentage of meat, bones, and scalp.
edit: Also, what's the sprite for the Overlord look like? Going to base him on the Overlord from the games by the same name? Cause that'd be awesome. I take it he's transformed on the Skull throne?
Also, are the Death/Famine/Plague/War positions transformations like the Overlord? Their own castes? Or are they just positions? It won't change how I plan to change them, but it'd be interesting if War caused a random enemy to berserk around him (attacking friend and foe), Plague to release a horrible syndrome, Famine to sap the energy from foes, and Death to just suck the souls out of people.
Post by: Arcvasti on January 19, 2014, 07:42:06 pm
1 Some kind of truth potion thing which guaranteed gives you information for raids and does no damage to the prisoner. Moderately expensive to make.
2 You could huskify them and use them as weapons against your enemies.
3 Would it be possible to have scalps of the race the prisoner is intimidate him enough to give information? Like showing a human prisoner a human scalp would either intimidate him into giving information for free or horrify him enough to break out.
Post by: CaptainArchmage on January 19, 2014, 08:14:51 pm
...Yup. Sounds good to me.I have runes for weapons and armor, but they dont add interactions. Only tags, like NOFEAR or NOSLEEP and such. I wanted to do a Thaumaturg for dwarves that makes magical items for ... a long time, but never got around doing it. But I will certainly add something like this for Warlocks. The spiked and skin-decorated armor works the same way.Cool. Do like. I'm going to try and mainly focus on gauntlets, for 'active' powers for now.
(http://i.imgur.com/NnIZj0L.png)
Do you think I should start up a dev thread (to help keep me motivated) in general modding?
It looks like the runes are applied as contaminants. Do they wash off if the items end up in water or magma?
Do the prisoners remain in cages, or does the Prison Cell actually hold them?
Post by: Neri on January 19, 2014, 08:17:34 pm
thought it'd be something like:
Insert Prisoner. run reaction(at a cost of some type). drops meat and new Skeleton, using soul bones and totemable head to make Urist McBones (or just not dropping them to represent it)
other than that, I am blown away Meph. Nicely done.
Post by: Arcvasti on January 19, 2014, 08:19:00 pm
It looks like the runes are applied as contaminants. Do they wash off if the items end up in water or magma?
I was worried about that too.
Add Spatter
This plugin makes reactions with names starting with SPATTER_ADD_ produce contaminants on the items instead of improvements. The produced contaminants are immune to being washed away by water or destroyed by the clean items command.
:)
Post by: Arcvasti on January 19, 2014, 08:21:20 pm
so the prisoner ==> skeleton idea via the torture chamber building group was discarded? damn.
I don't believe so.
It might be possible to search prisoners for items, corrupt prisoners into ghouls
Post by: Arcvasti on January 19, 2014, 09:37:19 pm
I have some questions.
Do the prisoners remain in cages, or does the Prison Cell actually hold them?
I believe it says the prisoners would be an animal that you pasture on top of the prison cell building or dug-out jail cells.
Post by: wrightly678 on January 19, 2014, 09:51:45 pm
a primary industry for souls and what not.
But I'm some what concerned about how exactly prisoners are captured. Do we just spam cage traps and sit inside a cave then walk out and collect the meat bags? I mean don't get me wrong cage traps are kinda awesome, but they're very cheap (1 mechanism and a wooden cage) so they can be easily spammed and they're removed from the base.
Why send 20 warlocks to battle invaders when you can just route them over 50 cage traps, heck if you send the warlock's the invaders die on the field and you won't catch any, leaving your soul industry empty, so you really have to step back and let the cages handle it. This creates a distance between the Fort/Coven/Lair and the battle that might reduce the potential FUN!, Dragon just got past the cage traps? Lock him out with a bridge.
I think there should be a common-ish way for your troops to capture enemies so that sending skeletons/ghouls/warlocks is more attractive to your soul industry than just spamming cage-traps
Post by: Arcvasti on January 19, 2014, 09:59:07 pm
The Prison system looks great, I love the idea of luring people into the lair as
a primary industry for souls and what not.
But I'm some what concerned about how exactly prisoners are captured.
I think there should be a common-ish way for your troops to capture enemies so that sending skeletons/ghouls/warlocks is more attractive to your soul industry than just spamming cage-traps
I believe Meph said something about a raiding system via workshop in future a la orc. I think they would be captured in reactions in the yet to be implemented raiding buildings. I think you may also be able to turn caged invaders into prisoners.
Post by: dukea42 on January 20, 2014, 01:18:18 am
1. What stockpile setting for Souls/phylacteries?
2. Where do I produce the magic weapon's ammo?
So far my only problem has been a vampire drinking out a ghoul instead of the available blood or bloodwine. Guess I need to rush that vampire lair to force that.
Second has been my slowness on figuring out I should use Warlocks and Ghouls for early labor items too. I relied only on my initial 2 skeletons and it's been slow going. The 2 ghouls hunted (only snakes!) and the Vampire and two Witches just hauled stuff.
My ghouls also been getting really upset from rain, is that moddable to make them not care about any rain? Not sure why'd they care.
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 20, 2014, 02:26:35 am
The very specific cast of warlock society did fool me.
I think meph should write something in the manual like "What if I told you, you can assign miner job to warlock and goul too 8)"
Question:
1. Is there anyway to deal with constructed skelaton ghost, because I can't engrave their name.
2.Which stockpile are paper and ink belong to?
3.Please give warlock red carpet, My tower seem empty without it.
Post by: Meph on January 20, 2014, 07:57:22 am
HAHA In my first fort ,I fail for this too "Oh I lost all my goul I can't do butcher now, ABANDON THE FORT!!" :-[Maybe a little hint about the jobs. ^^ I think I only say that they cant learn them, but of course they can still do them at minimum skill.
The very specific cast of warlock society did fool me.
I think meph should write something in the manual like "What if I told you, you can assign miner job to warlock and goul too 8)"
Question:
1. Is there anyway to deal with constructed skelaton ghost, because I can't engrave their name.
2.Which stockpile are paper and ink belong to?
3.Please give warlock red carpet, My tower seem empty without it.
1. crap. I hoped the noemotion took ghosts away from them. I dont think I can affect that. The only way if to use dfhack manually with fixdead. see the dfhack readme on how to deal with ghosts.
2. same as dwarf mode: "library supply" material. Ink should just be "ink" in the material. I am not sure to be honest.
3. red carpet can be done. I can even make it take on the color of its build-mat, but if I do that its no longer free. What should it be? Free red carpet, or 1-block-colored carpet?
Trying out the latest test-version (4) so far... Loving it, but a few questions:1. souls cant be stockpiled. phylactieries sould go into tool stockpiles that only accept "material:soul".
1. What stockpile setting for Souls/phylacteries?
2. Where do I produce the magic weapon's ammo?
So far my only problem has been a vampire drinking out a ghoul instead of the available blood or bloodwine. Guess I need to rush that vampire lair to force that.
Second has been my slowness on figuring out I should use Warlocks and Ghouls for early labor items too. I relied only on my initial 2 skeletons and it's been slow going. The 2 ghouls hunted (only snakes!) and the Vampire and two Witches just hauled stuff.
My ghouls also been getting really upset from rain, is that moddable to make them not care about any rain? Not sure why'd they care.
2. nowhere yet. hasnt been added so far. Its for the libraries or enchanter. Maybe some low-level ammo, who knows.
cant affect ghoul thoughts about rain. They just dont like getting clean, you know? :P
@Prisoners: They are pets, made in reactions from the raiding system. You might still be able to use captured invaders, but I dont know about that yet. Havent tested.
Quote
I believe it says the prisoners would be an animal that you pasture on top of the prison cell building or dug-out jail cells.exactly.
Quote
edit: Also, what's the sprite for the Overlord look like? Going to base him on the Overlord from the games by the same name? Cause that'd be awesome. I take it he's transformed on the Skull throne?overlord is a caste, he has no sprite.
Also, are the Death/Famine/Plague/War positions transformations like the Overlord? Their own castes? Or are they just positions? It won't change how I plan to change them, but it'd be interesting if War caused a random enemy to berserk around him (attacking friend and foe), Plague to release a horrible syndrome, Famine to sap the energy from foes, and Death to just suck the souls out of people.
the 4 riders of apocalypse are nobles, they dont have caste/transformations.
Post by: Denisac on January 20, 2014, 08:44:16 am
Though I guess turning your scrawny captured kobolds into big meat piñatas for the butcher would almost be dwarfy.
Post by: Jaso11111 on January 20, 2014, 09:30:58 am
Post by: Meph on January 20, 2014, 09:33:05 am
Giving a prisoner, that hates your guts for burning down his village and slaughtering his wife, the power to break down doors and kick your skeletons into the walls, is probably not the best idea. ^^
Quote
I appear to be unable to assign my skeletons on noble positions (riders, steward even Crypt Lord!). And yes i have checked and they are still under my control.That is known. No way around it so far. Its the spawnunit script, it needs to make them historical figures, but it cant yet. The lasts tries resulted in crashes.
Its a pretty big handicap, I know. I hope it gets fixed at some point, but its nothing I can affect.
Post by: Jaso11111 on January 20, 2014, 09:40:34 am
But it even effects skelis that i embarked with or got with migrant waves. They count as spawned in too?QuoteI appear to be unable to assign my skeletons on noble positions (riders, steward even Crypt Lord!). And yes i have checked and they are still under my control.That is known. No way around it so far. Its the spawnunit script, it needs to make them historical figures, but it cant yet. The lasts tries resulted in crashes.
Its a pretty big handicap, I know. I hope it gets fixed at some point, but its nothing I can affect.
Post by: Meph on January 20, 2014, 09:58:26 am
Post by: Jaso11111 on January 20, 2014, 10:03:58 am
No, they are fine. But you can only make them cryptlords. All other noble positions are warlock-only.Well i cant make them cryptlords. Or anything for that matter :'(
Post by: Meph on January 20, 2014, 10:24:24 am
Code: [Select]
[POSITION:SKELETON_COMMANDER] => skeleton only squad leader
[NAME:crypt lord:crypt lords]
[ALLOWED_CREATURE:WARLOCK_CIV:SKELETON]
[ALLOWED_CREATURE:WARLOCK_CIV:IRONBONE_SKELETON]
[ALLOWED_CREATURE:WARLOCK_CIV:BLOODSTEEL_SKELETON]
[ALLOWED_CREATURE:WARLOCK_CIV:DREADNOUGHT_SKELETON]
Post by: Shadow9657 on January 20, 2014, 10:30:56 am
Edit: I'm using the masterwork tile-set and the most recent warlock beta.
Post by: Meph on January 20, 2014, 11:09:48 am
[RESPONSIBILITY:MILITARY_STRATEGY] => That one was missing. I was doing tests on the LAW_ENFORCE and TAX_COLLECTOR graphics, I never put military strategy back on cryptlords. I didnt even knew that is was necessary for squad leaders. Its either that, or the remaining [RESPONSIBILITY:ESCORT_TAX_COLLECTOR] tag. Which should be deleted.
Works in my test version now. :)
Post by: jaxy15 on January 20, 2014, 11:42:01 am
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 20, 2014, 11:45:02 am
3. red carpet can be done. I can even make it take on the color of its build-mat, but if I do that its no longer free. What should it be? Free red carpet, or 1-block-colored carpet?Etherial portal for the win :D
Post by: Meph on January 20, 2014, 11:48:02 am
I appear to, uh, have encountered a strange bug of sorts. A vampire arrived in a migrant wave, but he was opposed to life. He summoned his minions, and they attacked him. I stationed a warlock near him to see if the skeleton control thingy would work, still opposed to life.:o (no idea about that. The creature file looks ok)
Desintegrating carpets for the win (they are buildings, not contructions, and would selfdestruct)3. red carpet can be done. I can even make it take on the color of its build-mat, but if I do that its no longer free. What should it be? Free red carpet, or 1-block-colored carpet?Etherial portal for the win :D
Post by: jaxy15 on January 20, 2014, 12:12:16 pm
Post by: Meph on January 20, 2014, 12:29:33 pm
Post by: Meph on January 20, 2014, 01:09:29 pm
Edit: The raiding system is pretty much done. Now working on sprites for prisoners.
Post by: DoX on January 20, 2014, 02:20:15 pm
Post by: jaxy15 on January 20, 2014, 02:25:47 pm
Solid! By the by, will the raiding system be similar to the Orc Fortress version, ala prisoners as tokens/buildmat? Or will we be actually capturing live, sentient creatures in cages? Sorry if you've already answered this.He said they'd be actual creatures that you have to keep in prison cells to survive.
Post by: Meph on January 20, 2014, 04:26:46 pm
Quote
This is a gold statue of Alheb the Whirling Bodice.
The item is a image of Alheb the Whirling Bodice, the deity of depravity and lust, depicted as a female witch and warlocks in gold by Ghemwed Defbelwem. The warlocks are prostrating themselves before Alheb the Whirling Bodice.
Post by: DoX on January 20, 2014, 04:49:43 pm
I am just going to leave this here.Quote
This is a gold statue of Alheb the Whirling Bodice.
The item is a image of Alheb the Whirling Bodice, the deity of depravity and lust, depicted as a female witch and warlocks in gold by Ghemwed Defbelwem. The warlocks are prostrating themselves before Alheb the Whirling Bodice.
(http://ruadouche.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/George-Takei-oh-my.jpg)
Post by: mikael grey on January 20, 2014, 05:24:40 pm
Or the ability to decorate walls with bones, like engraving, except with bones, and that would hopefuly work on constructed walls. Getting some room value for warlocks is hard without some heavy inscribed skeletons making quality furniture -_-
About the spawning, I understand that its an issue with spawning and lacking any history, making the new entity somewhat a non-being in the world. Would it be possible to mimick how df handles children then? Something like making the warlock a parent of the creature, and that skeleton a 'child' of that warlock? Is that even possible or am I again talking impossibles?
Post by: Meph on January 20, 2014, 05:48:19 pm
Decorating walls is not possible. Bone carpet could be done, but I dont think that DF would count it to the room value. Its a workshop after all, not furniture.
Dox: Wait a second. That godess is female. I am sure the person on the pic wouldnt care. :P
Post by: Meph on January 20, 2014, 05:50:13 pm
I have come here to write the raiding system and chew bubble gum. And you guessed it, I am all out of gum.
(http://i.imgur.com/TIL56m8.png)
And now: Lets make these 4 workshops I used in the designs yesterday.
PS: I also fixed some bugs and changed the Doctors Quarters into "Morgue", because I thought its more fitting. Still does the same, fix skeletons and train medical skills.
PPS: That screenshot is outdated. Raiding kits are now in the Craftsman, made from 1 ironbone bar, 1 bag and 1 meat. (to simulate a weapon, a bag to snatch stuff with, and provisions. I didnt want to use actual weapons, because it would snatch up your good ones as well.
Post by: Octobomb on January 20, 2014, 06:20:48 pm
Post by: zlurker on January 20, 2014, 06:52:13 pm
Post by: CaptainArchmage on January 20, 2014, 07:12:19 pm
Or does the overlord teleport away or leave off the edge off the map with some minions, raid an in-game town, killing off or grabbing some of their historical figures, and bring back some loot deducted from the items of the town, perhaps with a raid following them?
I would suggest some new commands targets:
Harvest a nearby grassland, swampland, shrubland, forest, or jungle for wood or plants. Obviously, logging doesn't work too well in grasslands, but you might get some plants from the area. This risks triggering an elven attacks if you are in contact with an elven civilization. This needs a large supply of axes and either warlocks or vehicles to levitate, teleport, or otherwise transport the haul around. It should be possible to dig up a haul of treasure as well, with a low chance. It would be great to get some aligned plants, too.
Raid a city. This should be difficult to do, but potentially have large rewards.
Do you think it is possible to simulate setting up an outpost off-site yet? Something like "assign minions and pylons to mining camp". Minions stay until you either call them back or the place gets raided and they return, followed by a raid.
How sophisticated is dfhack at the moment? Can you, playing fort mode, call up a map of the world and look at the things on it or get some information from it?
Post by: Meph on January 20, 2014, 07:33:46 pm
Here some examples:
(http://i.imgur.com/VIsiAId.png)
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 20, 2014, 07:37:30 pm
Admittedly it could use some work, since it doesn't seem to trigger liquid flow, revealed tiles, or caveins. But I think the concept could be used for Warlocks somewhere. Maybe one of the bad things that happens if you botch the darkpact.
Code: [Select]
local pos=position or copyall(df.global.cursor)
if pos.x==-30000 then
qerror("Select a location")
end
local x = 0
local y = 0
for x=pos.x-5,pos.x+5,1 do
for y=pos.y-5,pos.y+5,1 do
z=pos.z
while true do
local block = dfhack.maps.getTileBlock(x,y,z)
if block then
--print(x..","..y)
block.tiletype[x%16][y%16]=32
z = z-1
else
z = z+1
block = dfhack.maps.getTileBlock(x,y,z)
block.tiletype[x%16][y%16]=42
break
end
end
end
end
Post by: Meph on January 20, 2014, 07:45:25 pm
Can you do that with stairs as well? I always wanted to do a non-digging race, but no caverns is boring. Maybe people can make "up-down stairs till open space is hit", and find the caverns this way.
Or explosions. Interactions of the bomb-creature triggers that, mines all blocks in a radius, across z-levels. I would really like that. :)
Post by: Remuthra on January 20, 2014, 07:51:58 pm
Post by: Meph on January 20, 2014, 08:01:17 pm
Btw, all 20 raid town/village flavor texts are verbatim from Dungeon Keeper one. You remember, when the mentor talks about the name of the next level? They are all in.
IndigoFenix: Works. Breaks a bit (error message, but runs) when used near the map edge, and do eerie glowing pits on the same zlevel and upwards into the sky. (if you try it near the map edge) Doesnt trigger any demons, which is good. And I honestly expected it to be a 1 tile thing. The size surprised me quite a bit.
EDIT: Pets cant see in it... I did throw down a minion, it didnt reveal anything. Then I started digging, the civ members can see in it just fine. THEN I saw the magma. Thats when my FPS dropped to 3, because the magma lake was draining into the HFS.
Dont think this can be used like it is. Its a good idea, but FPS death is no fun. Maybe if the area around the magma-lake could be turned into obsidian. or slade. Yeah, making this a hollow slade spire could work. :)
EDIT2: Oh god, it did punch into a Tear of Armok. Aquifer draining into magmalake draining into hell.
Post by: LMeire on January 20, 2014, 08:25:34 pm
EDIT: Also, attacking them results in a loyalty cascade.
Post by: Rumrusher on January 20, 2014, 08:27:27 pm
Post by: Meph on January 20, 2014, 08:39:56 pm
Dwarf Therapist still lists opposed-to-life skeletons as being fortress-members for some reason, and trying to alter their labors when they're not on the in-game unit list crashes the game.I will let splinterz know.
EDIT: Also, attacking them results in a loyalty cascade.
Oh man I always wanted to do a super evil fort or renovate a tower with out having to deal with the friendly necromancers inside. So did you figure out how to get raids or attacks listed in legend mode?You can embark on necromancer towers, the guys are friendly to you. I even thought about a interaction to assimilate them as civ-members. You can even use the books lying around to build your libraries.
The raiding system is not linked to legends mode, or any actual civs in the world. Its all reactions, all workshops. It can run the "force siege" script, so you get ambushed or attacked more often if you use it, but thats all. The rest is just flavor.
Post by: CaptainArchmage on January 20, 2014, 09:34:51 pm
The raiding system is not linked to legends mode, or any actual civs in the world. Its all reactions, all workshops. It can run the "force siege" script, so you get ambushed or attacked more often if you use it, but thats all. The rest is just flavor.
Alright. Do the units we send on the raid go inactive for some time when we send it out (i.e. immobile), or does that complete when the units in the workshop finish? You mention that it takes on the order of weeks to complete.
I'd still suggest the "raid forest for wood and plants, get elf sieges" thing.
Post by: Denisac on January 20, 2014, 09:41:18 pm
In theory yes.
Giving a prisoner, that hates your guts for burning down his village and slaughtering his wife, the power to break down doors and kick your skeletons into the walls, is probably not the best idea. ^^
I would almost call that a potential 'feature' from a sociopathic standpoint. Thinking of the egotistical level of arrogance involved would lead me to believe that warlocks would take a twisted sense of joy out of harnessing such indignant rage and directing it at their whim without a single thought as to some lowly peon ever breaking free of their control. Such hubris should invariably lead to bursting meat-bags full of !FUN! at some point.
Sorry for the late response, work being work and all.
Post by: SIGVARDR on January 21, 2014, 12:08:57 am
Post by: Meph on January 21, 2014, 07:22:35 am
Denisac: If Putnams shapechange script can be restricted to a few selected units, I will use it for that. :)
CaptainArchmage: Currently there is no race specific command. That would take the current reactions (55) and make 440 of them. 8 times everything, for the different races. It could also lead to players saying: Oh, I have no surviving Orc civ in my world, I will only raid orcs now, because they cant counter attack.
Post by: Boltgun on January 21, 2014, 08:10:36 am
By the way, how about interactions to activate evil biome features like corpse raising and the growth of evil plants?
Can evil weather be summoned too? Imagine the face of goody good invader when half of them turns into husks.
Edit :
I am just going to leave this here.Quote
This is a gold statue of Alheb the Whirling Bodice.
The item is a image of Alheb the Whirling Bodice, the deity of depravity and lust, depicted as a female witch and warlocks in gold by Ghemwed Defbelwem. The warlocks are prostrating themselves before Alheb the Whirling Bodice.
Could be
Post by: Meph on January 21, 2014, 08:54:10 am
Quote
By the way, how about interactions to activate evil biome features like corpse raising and the growth of evil plants?
Can evil weather be summoned too? Imagine the face of goody good invader when half of them turns into husks.
Evil biomes interactions I could simulate. Evil biomes plants I could only make in workshops, no make them grow in the wild.
Weather: Yes. Since yesterday. Roses wrote a script for that. :)
Post by: Jaso11111 on January 21, 2014, 09:04:30 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujzp9ffPwPM
Post by: Meph on January 21, 2014, 10:41:32 am
Weather test was successfull. Lets see how these silly elves like rain of dragonfire.
Prisoner feeding is in.
Prisoner search is in. Each prisoner can be searched once and drops an items. This item can be identified with a reaction, and results in a random item. Maybe a hidden weapon, a piece of info, I dont know yet.
Prisoners are official civ-members, but can still be pastured. But they need to be buried (or at least should be), and cant be butchered. Not sure about that one. I wanted them to make ghosts, but that didnt work. If I make them pets again, people can just butcher them...
Post by: Boltgun on January 21, 2014, 11:27:11 am
Weather test was successfull. Lets see how these silly elves like rain of dragonfire.
I was about to make a complex system of picking outdoor tiles and dropping firejets but a mere rain of fire works for me.
Post by: Firehawk45 on January 21, 2014, 11:35:53 am
Is the raiding in the latest release?
For the prisoners: Make both, special reactions to "use" them (long term benefits) or the simple way involving ghouls and a rather fast end of life for the poor guy.
Also flesh golems, a few stacks of meat, bones, weapons for how many arms the thing will have and 1 or 2 souls to make the thing work for some nice bruising action.
(also good to be back, gonna see if i can break that mod of yours again)
Post by: DoX on January 21, 2014, 01:20:46 pm
Hehe, Nightmare before christmas, isnt it?
Weather test was successfull. Lets see how these silly elves like rain of dragonfire.
Prisoner feeding is in.
Prisoner search is in. Each prisoner can be searched once and drops an items. This item can be identified with a reaction, and results in a random item. Maybe a hidden weapon, a piece of info, I dont know yet.
Prisoners are official civ-members, but can still be pastured. But they need to be buried (or at least should be), and cant be butchered. Not sure about that one. I wanted them to make ghosts, but that didnt work. If I make them pets again, people can just butcher them...
Put it to another vote?
If it's not that major an issue, I'd have to say make them into pets again. It cuts down on the micromanagement involved in Therapist, and butchering them seems so vital for retrieving bones/skin/souls.
It would be wonderful to find some happy middle ground. A different way to produce ghosts? Possibly as an entirely different civ caste, created through a reaction? They don't have to be literal civ members, do they?
Post by: Meph on January 21, 2014, 01:39:37 pm
Currently I made them pets, but somehow they dont get hungry anymore. lol. I dont know why, they do have the grazers tag.
Post by: DoX on January 21, 2014, 02:18:10 pm
Edit: Heck, if it could be done, just add the reaction to the torture chamber. "Cannibalize Prisoner" or something.
Post by: Meph on January 21, 2014, 02:21:54 pm
I got the basics down btw. Searching for items, tortuing for items, healing them a bit, feeding them... riots are still WTF-going-on, but well. They are kind of pointless anyway, because unarmed idiots vs undead skeletons never stand a chance.
Edit: I am not sure if cannibalize is a verb ^^
Post by: Jaso11111 on January 21, 2014, 02:28:49 pm
Post by: Octobomb on January 21, 2014, 02:32:44 pm
Post by: Meph on January 21, 2014, 02:33:03 pm
Loyality cascades I havent seen... only single units that get attack for a bit.
Once-a-millenium reaction to make them controllable for 2 weeks??
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 21, 2014, 02:40:24 pm
Post by: Octobomb on January 21, 2014, 02:41:14 pm
I dont see a problem with that. Its better than opposed to life skeletons that run at your fort. Picking up migrants at the map edge is fine by me.For the skeletons. They arrive, cast the interaction on themselves, you have two weeks to get them in, then they go feral for another 1000 years. I don't think any fort will last that long without getting the skeleton near a warlock.
Loyality cascades I havent seen... only single units that get attack for a bit.Once-a-millenium reaction to make them controllable for 2 weeks??
Post by: Jaso11111 on January 21, 2014, 02:47:23 pm
I dont see a problem with that. Its better than opposed to life skeletons that run at your fort. Picking up migrants at the map edge is fine by me.
I guess... but its just a pain in the ass till you get a Pylon that you can pasture, sense Warlocks take so long to go the burows :(
Post by: moseythepirate on January 21, 2014, 03:55:35 pm
Post by: Meph on January 21, 2014, 06:00:26 pm
Question: how do I install this? Do I have to install Masterwork beforehand? Is it linux compatible?its preinstalled, buts its the WIN version. no idea about linux.
Quote
For the skeletons. They arrive, cast the interaction on themselves, you have two weeks to get them in, then they go feral for another 1000 years. I don't think any fort will last that long without getting the skeleton near a warlock.that makes perfect sense. I will use that. :)
Hey, I got my computer up and running again. Do you still want me to run some test towers?Yeah, sure. :) I will upload a new test version today, maybe in 1 hour or so. :)
Post by: wrightly678 on January 21, 2014, 06:03:48 pm
It just doesn't seem warlocky to me.
Here's where we send skeletons to capture peasants.
Here's where we torture the peasants.
Here's where we cut them up make their skin into books and bones into soilders/weapons.
And here's where we bury they're cartilage So that they rest in peace?
If anything you should WANT to prevent them from resting in peace, to deter invaders.
Wait, Can ghosts be made friendly, so that they're peaceful with your forces and scare/ attack(weakly) invaders
If so I need to find a way to reverse my vote
Post by: Meph on January 21, 2014, 06:32:56 pm
Post by: DoX on January 21, 2014, 06:45:46 pm
Wraith pets? New caste for civ members who can be turned into ghosts through a workshop reaction? Ghosts seem like one of those tricky hardcoded issues.
Edit: I don't mean making civ members actual ghosts, just a caste that imitates ghosts and uses their sprite.
Post by: Meph on January 21, 2014, 07:32:29 pm
Warlock castes and civ members and all that have nothing to do with that. :P
Post by: Meph on January 21, 2014, 07:44:14 pm
I fixed some bugs. Made 4 workshops and added the dungeon/torture system. Its very rough around the edges, but it works. All info in the pic below. (it was a long day)
Here the next test version: V.05. It has everything that was discussed in it. The still has following test reaction: Cheat (makes a lot of items), Prisoner (makes a free prisoner), Shapechange (a werebeast script test), Weather (a evil weather script test). That should make testing these things a lot easier. ;)
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8351 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8351)
Please give some reports, ever bit helps. :) I myself mostly mod, and dont play. The last three days I want to do a large tutorial fort, but till then I rely on your feedback. :)
Tomorrow I will continue on the Dungeon System. Add more reactions, add some negative effects when Prisoners die from tortures (maybe poltergeists that attack you), and prison riots, if I manage to code that. I tried today and failed, and I dont want to copy the PlumpHelmetMen behavior. In general a prison riot seems pointless, since the prisoners are unarmed meat-bags that dont stand a chance against a single skeleton anyway. and there is still that Herbalist/Voodoo thing I wanted to do, since 3 days. ^^ Never found the time.
The manual got an entire new section: Industries. (I think its still labled MAGIC in the index, damn, I forgot to change that.) It has some general info on how all things lock together. :)
(http://i.imgur.com/GBgLzA7.png)
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 21, 2014, 08:40:11 pm
Post by: Denisac on January 22, 2014, 12:42:25 am
Edit: I also seem to be running into starving/dehydrating keepers of knowledge for some reason.
Post by: dukea42 on January 22, 2014, 01:23:11 am
-Really fun and easy to get a pack of Ghouls with simple leather armor and bone scourges to do the hunting for souls. I simply put all of them to the Ghoul Master squad. They seem unhappy constantly, but haven't started anything about it yet. The only problem here is the lack of range weapons which makes hunting fast creatures down a problem. Sure they can use bows, but never really hit what they are shooting. Really useful to use for many of the labors that will not need specialization - which I have them all assigned to do between pack hunts. Ghouls are master wall builders as the time involved is more moving blocks and less the construction time.
-Skeletons on the other hand seem to be short on supply. Because they are the only (potential) skilled labor for many things, it's more important to inscribe them for specialties instead of using them for war right now. I recommend building several inscripters to speed the process up since they are cheap buildings. There isn't however many skills you truly need to be advanced if you counter with lots of labor and extra workshops to get replace the speed for volume. I haven't upgraded their bones yet since I haven't fixed it to allow the Crypt Lord squad. I only have 4, and the 5th I built was not yet historical, so I can't get him to a squad. Any tricks to make this happen easier? It's either make a masterwork (hard with no skill training) or kill something (hard with no squading)?
-Warlocks(& witches & vamps) I feel I have too many. They've been 50% of the population so far. I learned that I need to have them use their labor specialties better, but initially they have just been haulers and odd-job doers. One of the first things needed is to take gems and stones and cut them to jewels for the skeleton inscribing. The graveyard keeps 1 busy non-stop as well. The other item is 1 or 2 ethereal portals for the free blocks and good training practice. All these workshops takes up a lot of real estate, so I worry about how to keep them busy when I have 50+. Perhaps they should also have farming (planting) and brewing skills? Don't think skeletons would make good green thumbs and the darker plants would be needed.
-The furniture planning Add-on seems to be bugged. After "planning" for objects to be placed, even with suitable items in stock, nothing is getting moved into place. I am not sure if the ethereal items are related to it, but it's also a problem with doors, statues, and other items I have not made with the portal.
- Recommendations for players. Get a graveyard, ethereal portal, and Necro Shrine (skip circle for use on traps and ambushes) and Soul Syphon together early. These will keep your warlock busy while you play more traditionally with the skeletons and ghouls with masons, carpenters, blacksmiths, etc. The boneforge will be enough to make initial ghoul arms and armor.
-With all the mephits, I didn't need any additional security yet, as well as they make it fine keeping an open surface encampment while your initial dungeon and tower is underway. I may slaughter them for bones/souls next time, but a couple of them was pulling legs off a Forest Spider with ease, so they are tough little buggers. Certainly seem to be worth their own soul over a wisp.
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 22, 2014, 06:11:51 am
Quote
Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: Dwarf Fortress.exe
Application Version: 0.0.0.0
Application Timestamp: 4fcc9488
Fault Module Name: SDL.dll
Fault Module Version: 0.0.0.0
Fault Module Timestamp: 526ab9ea
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 000f2b05
OS Version: 6.1.7600.2.0.0.256.1
Locale ID: 3082
Additional Information 1: 0a9e
Additional Information 2: 0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789
Additional Information 3: 0a9e
Additional Information 4: 0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 22, 2014, 08:25:40 am
Did your miner skelaton turn oppose to life?
Post by: jaxy15 on January 22, 2014, 09:28:33 am
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 09:42:13 am
So, I brought along some blood wolves at embark. One of them immediately attacked a warlock and the other became opposed to life and ran off to kill a bobcat.Thats fine, they are opposed to life by default. they are evil critters from evil biomes. Not my fault if you buy them at embark :P (did the warlock die?)
PD: It kinda works, despite the grayed x, but I get this as soon as I embark and set an order to dig out something:It that something linux related? I cant help with that.QuoteProblem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: Dwarf Fortress.exe
Application Version: 0.0.0.0
Application Timestamp: 4fcc9488
Fault Module Name: SDL.dll
Fault Module Version: 0.0.0.0
Fault Module Timestamp: 526ab9ea
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 000f2b05
OS Version: 6.1.7600.2.0.0.256.1
Locale ID: 3082
Additional Information 1: 0a9e
Additional Information 2: 0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789
Additional Information 3: 0a9e
Additional Information 4: 0a9e372d3b4ad19135b953a78882e789
Was trying out the v5 build and I got a child ghoul and a child skeleton as part of my first migration wave. Not sure if that is intended.Crap. I might have to remove Witches. No female civ members. That would also mean no dungeon mistress, but thats the price to pay, if the worldgen ignores that sterile tag. :-X
Edit: I also seem to be running into starving/dehydrating keepers of knowledge for some reason.
Quote
-With all the mephits, I didn't need any additional security yet, as well as they make it fine keeping an open surface encampment while your initial dungeon and tower is underway. I may slaughter them for bones/souls next time, but a couple of them was pulling legs off a Forest Spider with ease, so they are tough little buggers. Certainly seem to be worth their own soul over a wisp.Thats good. I want to make people feel save, not to hurry with moats and walls.
Quote
-The furniture planning Add-on seems to be bugged. After "planning" for objects to be placed, even with suitable items in stock, nothing is getting moved into place. I am not sure if the ethereal items are related to it, but it's also a problem with doors, statues, and other items I have not made with the portal.Thats falconnes territory. I havent used that plugin yet, so better ask him. :)
Quote
-Warlocks(& witches & vamps) I feel I have too many. They've been 50% of the population so far. I learned that I need to have them use their labor specialties better, but initially they have just been haulers and odd-job doers. One of the first things needed is to take gems and stones and cut them to jewels for the skeleton inscribing. The graveyard keeps 1 busy non-stop as well. The other item is 1 or 2 ethereal portals for the free blocks and good training practice. All these workshops takes up a lot of real estate, so I worry about how to keep them busy when I have 50+. Perhaps they should also have farming (planting) and brewing skills? Don't think skeletons would make good green thumbs and the darker plants would be needed.You shouldnt get migrants, remember. Only 2 waves. So whatever you have in Warlocks, its just the embark, and 2 waves of migrants. After that you get no new ones.
Quote
-Skeletons on the other hand seem to be short on supply. Because they are the only (potential) skilled labor for many things, it's more important to inscribe them for specialties instead of using them for war right now. I recommend building several inscripters to speed the process up since they are cheap buildings. There isn't however many skills you truly need to be advanced if you counter with lots of labor and extra workshops to get replace the speed for volume. I haven't upgraded their bones yet since I haven't fixed it to allow the Crypt Lord squad. I only have 4, and the 5th I built was not yet historical, so I can't get him to a squad. Any tricks to make this happen easier? It's either make a masterwork (hard with no skill training) or kill something (hard with no squading)?That gives me a good idea: I could give skeletons bonecarving skill. Naturally level 10 in it, or something like that. This way you can easily have them make a masterwork item quickly. :)
Quote
-Really fun and easy to get a pack of Ghouls with simple leather armor and bone scourges to do the hunting for souls. I simply put all of them to the Ghoul Master squad. They seem unhappy constantly, but haven't started anything about it yet. The only problem here is the lack of range weapons which makes hunting fast creatures down a problem. Sure they can use bows, but never really hit what they are shooting. Really useful to use for many of the labors that will not need specialization - which I have them all assigned to do between pack hunts. Ghouls are master wall builders as the time involved is more moving blocks and less the construction time.Arent ghouls fast enough to take down most prey even without ranged weapons?
Post by: jaxy15 on January 22, 2014, 09:45:22 am
Post by: Firehawk45 on January 22, 2014, 09:56:34 am
My warlocks are using withered souls fo phylacteries, gonna assume thats not intended.
Post by: jaxy15 on January 22, 2014, 09:57:04 am
small bug report (not really a bug, dont know what to call it):Meph said it's intended.
My warlocks are using withered souls fo phylacteries, gonna assume thats not intended.
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 22, 2014, 10:01:10 am
Don't do that, I see the skelaton child as a flavor and the thing that remind me of how cruel can this world be "Death don't care how young you are, it don't care how much time you think you have left, it don't care what you had done and what you haven't, the death will come to you (and then some crazy warlock will resurrect you to be his midget skelaton :P)"Was trying out the v5 build and I got a child ghoul and a child skeleton as part of my first migration wave. Not sure if that is intended.Crap. I might have to remove Witches. No female civ members. That would also mean no dungeon mistress, but thats the price to pay, if the worldgen ignores that sterile tag. :-X
Edit: I also seem to be running into starving/dehydrating keepers of knowledge for some reason.
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 10:14:47 am
Or someone can tell me a another trick to make them die out ^^
Post by: fricy on January 22, 2014, 10:19:24 am
I have to do it. The civ MUST die out in worldgen. Thats essential. Otherwise you get migrants, which I dont want. As long as they can breed in worldgen, they will not die out.
Or someone can tell me a another trick to make them die out ^^
Does that also mean that warlocks won't send ambushes/sieges any more in dwarf mode? :(
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 22, 2014, 10:23:38 am
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 10:25:42 am
ChairmanPoo: I dont know. Looks like something dfhack related, since it mentions the SDL.dll.
Post by: fricy on January 22, 2014, 10:35:15 am
fricy: Yes. Thats the idea. You dont want slade-throwing warlocks with near-golem grade skeletons attacking you? (or do you? ^^)
I honestly can't answer that. Warlock are/were a PITA so far in their previous incarnation with their AO spells, and they are getting more OP. On the other hand DF can become too easy, and the flavor is welcome. So the answer is: ??
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 22, 2014, 10:37:06 am
fricy: Yes. Thats the idea. You dont want slade-throwing warlocks with near-golem grade skeletons attacking you? (or do you? ^^)
ChairmanPoo: I dont know. Looks like something dfhack related, since it mentions the SDL.dll.
Hmmm... do I need to do something special with DFhack once it launches? I tende to ignore it..
I tried again, and pressed m in the designation window, then unpressed it. This seemed to avoid the crash, but only my warlocks dig?
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 10:39:39 am
Post by: ChairmanPoo on January 22, 2014, 10:46:15 am
I tried again, and pressed m in the designation window, then unpressed it. This seemed to avoid the crash, but only my warlocks dig?
Post by: jaxy15 on January 22, 2014, 11:25:41 am
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 11:26:39 am
Trying to force migrants with the emissary just says "The fortress attracted no migrants this season."Thats fine. The script just makes the normal "migrant event" happen. If there are none, it cant force any to come.
I am not sure what you are talking about at all.
I tried again, and pressed m in the designation window, then unpressed it. This seemed to avoid the crash, but only my warlocks dig?
Post by: megahelmet on January 22, 2014, 11:33:48 am
fricy: Yes. Thats the idea. You dont want slade-throwing warlocks with near-golem grade skeletons attacking you? (or do you? ^^)
I honestly can't answer that. Warlock are/were a PITA so far in their previous incarnation with their AO spells, and they are getting more OP. On the other hand DF can become too easy, and the flavor is welcome. So the answer is: ??
I always felt warlock sieges were more annoying than dangerous. Oh, the warlocks are here, melee sits this one out. The bola squad is heading in. Seriously, I stopped even forging metal bolas. Just flat out used ironbark and stealoak. Dismembered all of them fast. Sure sometimes I lose a dwarf here and there...but there's plenty more fisherdwarves where that one came from!
Automatons and the drow are what I fear. And due to the former, the allied drow usually turn on me at some point for letting so many of their caravans gets destroyed. Then I'm really in for it. A single drow glaivemaster on a giant vampire bat flew into my fortress once and slaughtered over 30 wardrakes, 50 citizens(novice naked wrestlers), and my military of 10 melee and 10 ranged. Did not survive the following tantrum.
I'd be up for a selectable option to let the new improved warlocks lay waste to your dwarven/orc forts.
Post by: jaxy15 on January 22, 2014, 11:36:11 am
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 11:58:53 am
I guess short worldgens would have them, since they take some time to die out.
Post by: dukea42 on January 22, 2014, 01:10:07 pm
Honestly I think ghoul speed is fine after thinking about it more. It was those damn owls and raccoons that were my first wildlife that drove me crazy for their souls. The rest like deer, can evade for awhile but eventually get surrounded. Makes for good drama.
Can we get "make Ironbone anvil" at the corrupted forge? Seems fitting to avoid dwarf metals for bone metals and glass metals.
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 01:33:30 pm
And good news: I found a nice solution for the spawned skeletons that cant join the army: I gave skeletons level 15 in bonecarving. This means they spawn, you can make some masterwork bone items, and let them join the army. :)
I also gave them 1% skill learn rate in all their skills. Somehow they dont take on their profession sprites, if I add the skill points with scripts, so they always looked like miners.
All this means that bone armor and weapons suddenly make more sense (because you get masterworks, which are better than normal gear), that you can empty out that massive refuse pile a lot quicker, and that you can have build skeletons join the army. :)
Post by: DoX on January 22, 2014, 02:31:21 pm
Post by: shadowclasper on January 22, 2014, 02:59:24 pm
Also, I'd suggest first finding out what a siege of warlocks would look like before saying out of hand that their civ should die out early.
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 03:02:24 pm
Post by: LMeire on January 22, 2014, 03:04:55 pm
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 03:35:07 pm
You have dead roots, trees, totems, skeleton/monster statues...
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 03:42:45 pm
Today I finally finished that Herbalist. You can now use cavern plants for items (same thing as dwarf mode), grow your own evil or poisonous plants. You can make papyrus to write books on. And you can make 3 new AoE acids for your acid disperser trap comps.
Spawnunit got an upgrade, and spawned creatures now have their natural skills. Its pretty awesome, thanks Warmist. It also allows spawned skeletons to make masterwork bone items quickly. They are now legendary bonecarvers be default. And once they made a masterwork item, they can join the military. :)
Skeletons that arrive as migrants should also be controlled for 2 weeks by default. (to stop them standing on the map edge)
I added more to the manual, in the industries section, the credits and the tips/tricks section.
Quote
1. Embark on Necromancer Towers or Tombs
By using the included 'embark everywhere' tool in the Gui, you can embark together with an army of friendly undeads. Before you do your embark selection, while looking at the map, open the Gui, go to the ControlBar on the top and press on 'Embark'. You can now embark on the tomb or tower.
2. Rob caravans
Be sure to invite caravans through your Emissary. Lure them to your dungeon and have the undead rip them up. Worst case scenario is trading, best case scenario is free stuff, including undead caravan guards.
3. Masterwork Bone Items
Skeletons are natural bone carvers and their masterwork bone arrows pack a mean punch. Since skeletons have no emotions, they dont care if these masterwork arrows are destroyed. Their masterwork bone armors are also not bad.
4. Souls vs Phylacteries
While Phylacteries are usually preferable, it makes a lot of sense to use souls for reactions. This takes less work steps, since you save the hourglass and the storing of the soul. But for buildmats you should use Phylacteries.
5. Fires & Magma
Skeletons are fireproof. Send them to light braziers or candelabras. Or put them into squads with fire mages. They also make good miners that breach volcanos.
I made a few more tests with scripts. I wont say anything yet, because I dont know what will work, and what dont.
(http://i.imgur.com/UeHfw59.png)
Post by: Octobomb on January 22, 2014, 03:58:00 pm
What does an acid sprayer look like?
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 04:02:04 pm
Fixed the typo. :)
Post by: jaxy15 on January 22, 2014, 04:03:48 pm
since you save the hourglassWhy would you want to save the hourglass, though? You're not really gonna do anything else with it and you're not gonna trade it either because warlocks prefer to kill the merchants instead.
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 04:08:40 pm
- Workstep 1: Use soul in job.
If you use a phylactery its more like this:
- Workstep 1: Mine a boulder
- Workstep 2: Haul boulder to craftsman
- Workstep 3: Make hourglass
- Workstep 4: Make Phylactery from hourglass and soul.
- Workstep 5: Use phylactery in job.
Post by: jaxy15 on January 22, 2014, 04:11:28 pm
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 04:12:36 pm
Post by: jaxy15 on January 22, 2014, 04:16:49 pm
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 04:18:51 pm
EDIT: I checked my list. Wow, only 3 building to go:
Square of Sator
Fleshsmith
Spiderpit
Thats it. The rest is refining existing features.
Post by: somebears on January 22, 2014, 04:25:43 pm
All this is linux, so bug reports may also be caused by my installation:
Embark 1:
on a tomb (seems elven)
2 Ghouls
2 Skeletons
1 Warlock
2 Witches
Right after embark the warlock went off to clean something.
The Ghouls died on the 10th granite(bled to death) no combat log.
The witches/warlocks are friends to each other, same for the skeletons. Ever other relationship is "Grudge"
-> unhappy warlock
-> next embark
Embark 2:
on a tower
1 Witch
1 Warlock
3 Skeletons
1 Ghoul
1 Vampire (female)
Pre-Embark:
some Profession names for the Vampire are broken. "Not Axe" "Not Scourge" "Not Hammer" "Not Spear"
For others they are "Not Axeman" "Not Swordsman" "Not Hammerman" "Not Spearman", even for witches. The "scourge/sword" might be wrong everywhere.
The friendships look similar to the first embark. Witches/Warlock/Vampire are friends with each other and (new!)Long-Term Acquaintance with the Ghoul. Rest is Grudge.
Right after embark the resident dead killed my warlock. I could not figure out why. some clues:
- some dead caravan guards were there shouting their Battlecries
- the Necromancer was caught in a burst of "call down the doom"
-> next embark
Embark 3:
2 Skeletons
1 Warlock
4 Ghouls
I figured out the Friendship thing: Each group (wrlocks/witches/vampires/(possibly also werebeasts), skeletons, ghouls) is friends with each other group member. All other relationships are "Grudge" except ghouls and Warlocks etc. This is weird
Right after embark there was some sort of explosion. Some units were hit by "boiling fisher berry wine" ,"boiling blood" and "rotten meat".
Two of the Ghouls are very unhappy, with no thoughts to explain it. They are not even injured (onyl one ghoul is injured, but he is quite content)
I guess these are mostly self made (broken installation) Problems, but I thought i should report them anyway.
Post by: Grimmash on January 22, 2014, 04:52:20 pm
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 05:17:47 pm
somebears: I will rename the PNG ones.
Quote
Right after embark the resident dead killed my warlock. I could not figure out why. some clues:What caravans?
- some dead caravan guards were there shouting their Battlecries
- the Necromancer was caught in a burst of "call down the doom"
-> next embark
Post by: zlurker on January 22, 2014, 05:25:46 pm
Post by: somebears on January 22, 2014, 05:33:04 pm
What caravans?Some dead Caravan guards in the tower. They were there from the start.
I made a new embark, no weird boiling blood atm, but at the start there was a explosion of Rotten Meat flying in all directions. Now there are random explosions of Rotten Meat. They seem to be originating from a Ghoul and only go in one direction.
A very interesting thing was, that the skeletons were Opposed to Life at embark. after a few ticks the warlock took control over them. That might be why there was fighting before and could possibly explain all the hate for skeletons
[EDIT:] do you use a modified version of dfhack? I used v4 on my end
Post by: SharpKris on January 22, 2014, 05:51:21 pm
Post by: somebears on January 22, 2014, 05:59:07 pm
Post by: Denisac on January 22, 2014, 05:59:09 pm
I have to do it. The civ MUST die out in worldgen. Thats essential. Otherwise you get migrants, which I dont want. As long as they can breed in worldgen, they will not die out.
Or someone can tell me a another trick to make them die out ^^
I only got the two migrant waves on the fort which gave the child ghoul & skeleton. All the rest were no migrants this season.
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 06:04:19 pm
would you consider some other way to storage souls for the late end game, like a soul pool/vortex/giant hourgalss. something similar to the bannersPhylacteries already do that. They hold souls forever.
I made a new embark, no weird boiling blood atm, but at the start there was a explosion of Rotten Meat flying in all directions. Now there are random explosions of Rotten Meat. They seem to be originating from a Ghoul and only go in one direction.I use dfhack r4. And what? Explosion of rotten meat? Are you sure you installed it correctly? rotten meat should be impossible. Absolutely impossible in the first 2 weeks of the game, because the meat you embark with has no time to rot. Any errorlogs? And what was in your embark selection, any weird materials?
[EDIT:] do you use a modified version of dfhack? I used v4 on my end
In the manual if you click the Warlock link and go down to ghouls, in the first paragraph, it still mentions them learning fishing and hunting.thank you, is fixed.
Post by: somebears on January 22, 2014, 06:31:00 pm
I will experiment more to find a proper way to make this work, dont worry :)
[EDIT:] I used the stuff from the simple warlock preset. Nothing else
Post by: Arcvasti on January 22, 2014, 06:35:15 pm
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 06:38:47 pm
arcvasti: possibly. I could give them a skill that uses no profession (like... poet) and use it to make some masterworks in a custom reaction. I dont know. Its a workaround for something that hopefully gets fixed at some point in the future (in the script, so I can stop doing these ridiculus things with the skills)
Post by: Nico2167 on January 22, 2014, 06:43:13 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on January 22, 2014, 06:51:08 pm
arcvasti: possibly. I could give them a skill that uses no profession (like... [poet) and use it to make some masterworks in a custom reaction. I dont know. Its a workaround for something that hopefully gets fixed at some point in the future (in the script, so I can stop doing these ridiculus things with the skills)
I like that idea of using non-profession skills for that. I also like the idea of all your skeletons being master poets. I think you should maybe keep a bonus to skeletons for bone carving though. It seems appropriate to have bone things carving bone things.
Post by: somebears on January 22, 2014, 06:58:01 pm
Miasma aboveground is impossible. And how do you have a butcher that already butchered something on day 1? First thing you build?Really, dont worry, It just my setup. screen inc :) Rotten meat in the first frame (initial pause still on) Every Ghoul is a butcher :)
SERIOUSLY DONT WORRY!!!
This is for enternainment only!
(http://i.share.pho.to/7a385002_c.png) (http://pho.to/4c0mg)
The images are in the wrong order. The last one shows the first frame of the embark, I didn't unpause
The second one shows the first miasma after ~2 sec unpause.
The 3. one shows a Rotten Meat explosion. The wavy sand tiles are Rotten Meat. They originate from the Ghoul a few tiles north of the wagon
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 07:47:54 pm
And Roses kept me up again, throwing nice scripts around. I already finished something for tomorrow, here a little sneak peek: (http://i.imgur.com/Sm8bWlr.png)
Post by: Arcvasti on January 22, 2014, 08:00:57 pm
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 08:17:59 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on January 22, 2014, 08:41:24 pm
I know, but there is no orange in DF.
Huh, thats odd. I'm thinking that using the portal should cost a soul or something. Otherwise it'd be a bit too safe. Or make it more difficult to build.
Post by: Grimmash on January 22, 2014, 08:48:39 pm
"This end should point toward the ground if you want to go to space. If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you will not go to space today."
http://xkcd.com/1133/ (http://xkcd.com/1133/)
So... does building two portals crash the game, or just scatter the various pieces of teleported stuff between the two portals? With Monoliths or an evil embark this could actually be a very interesting bit of controlled chaos. Add the script for conserving momentum and a minecart with a skeleton or ghoul, and you have a teleporting gibbet shotgun of reanimating death!
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 09:00:17 pm
In short: Its always the newest portal that works.
Post by: Splint on January 22, 2014, 09:04:46 pm
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 09:09:32 pm
Post by: Splint on January 22, 2014, 09:14:28 pm
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 09:32:16 pm
Post by: Remuthra on January 22, 2014, 09:34:39 pm
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 09:36:48 pm
Post by: Remuthra on January 22, 2014, 09:38:34 pm
Post by: wrightly678 on January 22, 2014, 09:47:29 pm
fricy: Yes. Thats the idea. You dont want slade-throwing warlocks with near-golem grade skeletons attacking you? (or do you? ^^)Yes! I mean I realize that the playable warlock civ needs to go extinct it seems like such a shame for warlocks to only affect themselves is there any way that sieges from warlocks against dwarves/orc/kobolds could happen without making it so more warlock migrate to your tower?
I realize the seiges couldn't be TOO FUN! but couldn't they be set up so they only attack late game, against competent , battle hardened Forts?
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 09:55:45 pm
Dfhack has no force interaction script yet.
Playable warlocks could come with the advice: For maximum gameplay, set pop-limit to 10 (or something similar). That would mean no migrants after the first two waves, but would allow normal warlock enemies for the other civs.
I made Skeletons level 20 DISCIPLIN. What is discipline? Its an unused skill without a profession. That means no graphics for it. And then I added a reaction to the Inscriptor: *Free Skeleton Masterwork Reacion* with the hint to use this to make them a squad member. It produces weaponracks that boil away after 1 second. They create a masterpiece after 1-3 tries, which takes only a few seconds. This way the gamebalance with the bone doesnt change, and the graphics doesnt change. (otherwise all skeletons would always look like bonecarvers). God, sometimes the game makes modding hard. ^^
Post by: wrightly678 on January 22, 2014, 10:07:52 pm
God, sometimes the game makes modding hard. ^^
Honestly I'm amazed with the level of complexity and depth in mods of a game that has obfuscated code and no real modding API, I realized the [TAG] system is something but people do crazy things with it,
Also DFhack helps too right?
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 10:13:19 pm
Honestly, making this undead civ was a very nice challenge. So much new stuff. I am glad that the fundraiser worked out and I could take a month for this. Its just 2 building left. Building stuff in the Fleshsmith and AoE spells for the Square of Sator. Thats it. Only refining and playtesting left after them. And adding a few things here and there to already existing workshops.
111 permitted workshops.
1606 permitted reactions.
Not bad for 3 weeks. ^^
Post by: CptCrunchy on January 22, 2014, 10:41:26 pm
Post by: Meph on January 22, 2014, 11:07:29 pm
Here my todo list. Criticism and idea welcome. The more the merrier.
Quote
Things missing:
- Square of Sator => AoE Spells that affect the map.
- Fleshsmith => Special gear and flesh/bone constructs.
- Prisoners => Turn them into Ghouls. Turn them into Thralls.
- Werebeast Shapechange. (Putnam just finished that script, yeah :) )
- Catapult Ammo => Some sort of Warpstone AoE Ammo.
- More manual entries (?)
- Prisoner Riot / Poltergeist. Some negative effect from Prisoners.
- Pylon Rebalance. Maybe Line-of-Sight control only?
- Use for Megabeast Souls
- Use for fossils, treasures and relics.
- Use for Tear, Blood and Bone of Armok Gems.
- Magma-spawning of some kind.
- A magma-only workshop/tech of some kind.
- Burning / floating skull
- A use for tar/pitch
- A use for the curious ritual knives
- Special magical gear from the Enchanter.
- Ammo for the Magestaff / Wraithblade
- Special effects for Magestaff / Wraithblde.
- Aura-Shields (?)
- Attribute-boosts from souls. Devour soul = get more strength/agility/endurance.
- Temporary Uber-Soldier transformation, which ends with the user dying/going berserk.
- Use some of the dwarven/orc/kobold magic as well.
Thats about it. If you like things from this list, let me know, and I give them a higher priority. If you dislike them, do tell me as well. If you have some good ideas about points you saw, let me know. ;)
I still have 5 days to add stuff before I concentrate on balancing and bugfixing.
Post by: Neri on January 22, 2014, 11:31:04 pm
also, in the manual under "Prisoners" there is a typo of 'Exuction Chamber'.
with the pylons, is having the range of both the skeleton control and pylon powering the same distance,but making the skeleton control LoS, while the pylon powering isn't Los a good idea? (just throwing random suggestions around)
Well done Meph, ,Putnam, Warmist,Roses and IndigoFenix. well done you all.
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 23, 2014, 12:30:16 am
So I thing you should make them item syndrome instead.
Post by: zach123b on January 23, 2014, 12:58:55 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
could we get a mega pylon to pulse the whole map? say it requires the corpse of 5 pylons and feed it a soul or a few every time you want a pulse
how would you feel about pylon upgrades that doesn't cost the life of a necromancer? possibly a longer time the minion can be away
and i find the mephits make it a tad bit easy or annoying, i got 6 locks=24 mephits. kill half and have plenty of souls and early defense. any chance of making it more prone to fun and set them to 2 per warlock?
Post by: somebears on January 23, 2014, 02:38:17 am
So, you are doing that on purpose?nope. I was trying to make a linux version. I had no Issues with the last few releases. But something changed. I never had those Problems before. And I try to figure out why :)
Post by: Meph on January 23, 2014, 02:46:58 am
I had one crash at embark, dont know were that came from.
Nuttycompa: Good point. I will give their staves some ranged interaction. The only difference is the AI: If they have ranged weapons, they will stand and shoot. If they have melee weapons that give interactions, they will use the interactions, but rush into melee regardless, because they think that they only have a melee weapon.
Post by: Splint on January 23, 2014, 02:53:31 am
Something keeps upsetting the minions and ghouls which leads to violence at a point in the fort's life where losses aren't acceptable due to manpower shortage.
EDIT: I had to slayrace two ghouls to get the violence to stop. This is getting to be a real nuisance.
Post by: Boltgun on January 23, 2014, 03:02:06 am
is it possible to make a caste or spell to shoot blood?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You can copy the magma crab attack to shoot globs of blood. I am afraid that it will have little damage however. That will not count toward the actual creature's blood either (no bleeding to death by firing too much).
Both issues can be fixed by editing raws and scripting magic.
Post by: Meph on January 23, 2014, 03:17:48 am
Post by: Boltgun on January 23, 2014, 03:20:21 am
And a suggestion : Summoning succubi to provide bonuses when they interact with prisonners. :P
Post by: Splint on January 23, 2014, 03:31:03 am
Feral ghouls are a separate creature that is crazed. They come from the Graveyard only. Splint, did you have these troubles from migrants, or from spawned ghouls from the graveyard?
Migrants. In both cases a migrant ghoul or a resident minion has initiated hostilities with one attacking the other or an uncontrolled skeleton. In both cases this has happened, the ghouls raged upon witnessing any sort of aggression, and I had to slayrace the belligerent ghoul(s) to get hostilities to cease.
Post by: Meph on January 23, 2014, 04:45:30 am
I removed prone to rage from ghouls, and made them slow for a few hundret ticks when they migrate/embark. They shouldnt be able to reach the skeletons anymore, giving them enough time to remove their opposed to life (which they can remove themselves once, for 1 week, only when they embark/migrate)
Post by: Rumrusher on January 23, 2014, 06:55:39 am
Post by: Splint on January 23, 2014, 07:06:04 am
funnier solution have a warlock granted the task of walking in the new guests. not so funnier solution place a pylon next to the edge of the map.
The problem was how early it was happening. I couldn't have had pylons ready if I had wanted to. Tried burrows too, but that didn't really pan out so well.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 23, 2014, 07:18:57 am
--->Armor that heals the person wearing it?
--->Vampiric weapons that suck out the blood of those it strikes and heals the weilder? Specifically scourges.
- Catapult Ammo => Some sort of Warpstone AoE Ammo.
---->Warpstone weapons with mutation mechanics.
- Use for Megabeast Souls
----->Creation of incredibly powerful weapons? A final form for Skeletons? Creation of 'BoneGiants'?
- Use for fossils, treasures and relics.
----->No idea here....
- Use for Tear, Blood and Bone of Armok Gems.
----->I liked the old fountains. But if those don't work, then perhaps special skeletons? Water/Fire/Dust Skeletons?
- A magma-only workshop/tech of some kind.
----->Perhaps some kind of hellforge making warpstone weaponry?
- A use for the curious ritual knives
----->Sacrificial alter to produce extra souls or something else? Special spells?
- Ammo for the Magestaff / Wraithblade
----->Spellcharges and Hexcharges are my votes.
- Aura-Shields (?)
----->Perhaps Aura-Cowls instead? Rather than just shields it'd be something anybody might wear?
- Attribute-boosts from souls. Devour soul = get more strength/agility/endurance.
-----> Sounds good.
- Temporary Uber-Soldier transformation, which ends with the user dying/going berserk.
----->Like the dark elves in Thor: The Dark World? The monster types? Perhaps something more like a wretched bound creature, tortured beyond imagining and only kept alive by the bindings that also restrain it. When released from it's bondage, it goes berserk and kills everything around it as it slowly bleeds to death.
- Use some of the dwarven/orc/kobold magic as well.
----->Definitely dwarven dark magic. Corrupted forms of the others.
Post by: Meph on January 23, 2014, 09:00:43 am
This
Code: [Select]
[ITEM_TOOL:COMMAND_KIDNAP]
[NAME:command:commands]
[UNIMPROVABLE][TILE:33]made from this
Code: [Select]
[INORGANIC:MINION]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:minion]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:7:7:1][TILE:176]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]aka a "Minion Command", which is just used for your Overlord to tell your minions in raids what to do... is worth... wait for it... 37945413*. The prisoner intel is of similar value. Wtf. I dont know why ^^ Probably because the tool has no size. But wow. My fort is super rich. I have 1,3 billion wealth because of these items. :D (I played a 1,5 year fort so far. Got some issues noted down, but mostly it plays ok. I just think that Skeletons are vastly overpowered, because they dont have this undead hitpoint system, but instead act like Golems. Alive, with nopain and noblood. -.-
Post by: Boltgun on January 23, 2014, 09:06:10 am
lol.
ThisCode: [Select][ITEM_TOOL:COMMAND_KIDNAP]
[NAME:command:commands]
[UNIMPROVABLE][TILE:33]
made from thisCode: [Select][INORGANIC:MINION]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:minion]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:7:7:1][TILE:176]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
aka a "Minion Command", which is just used for your Overlord to tell your minions in raids what to do... is worth... wait for it... 37945413*. The prisoner intel is of similar value. Wtf. I dont know why ^^ Probably because the tool has no size. But wow. My fort is super rich. I have 1,3 billion wealth because of these items. :D (I played a 1,5 year fort so far. Got some issues noted down, but mostly it plays ok. I just think that Skeletons are vastly overpowered, because they dont have this undead hitpoint system, but instead act like Golems. Alive, with nopain and noblood. -.-
Next year half the continent is going to siege your fort. Otherwise you can add weak points to your skeletons like a gem that act like a brain and kills the creature when hit.
Post by: Meph on January 23, 2014, 09:17:06 am
If you know how to add that, I would really appreciate the help.
And my wealth is so high now, that its negative. "-a lot."
Fortress is doing well otherwise. I forgot to mod in scalps for sentient invaders, so I cant write any books. -.- but only 3 ghouls died, the rest is fine. And I build easily 20 new skeletons already. And I have my first prisoner from raiding: A goblin. and a caged invader from an ambush, also goblin. ^^ they probably didnt like how I slaughtered their caravan.
And skeleton nurses are extremely effective. Slow, but they never get distracted by eat/sleep/drink. A skeleton broker is probably equally awesome.
And the tower is so high, that I had to activate infiniteSky, and the upside-down underground pyramid breached the caverns.
Post by: razorback on January 23, 2014, 09:27:19 am
Quote
I just think that Skeletons are vastly overpowered, because they dont have this undead hitpoint system, but instead act like Golems. Alive, with nopain and noblood. -.-
Would it be somehow possible to let them lose limbs much easier than other creatures? (maybe especially from blunt attacks)
That would balance them a bit and simulate their brittle kind.
Post by: BlackFlyme on January 23, 2014, 09:30:31 am
I am really bad at adding these weak points. I tried with the pylons/monolith and added a core that has THOUGHT, but it doesnt seem to work. Creatures attack and break their cores, its completely red, but they still live.
If you know how to add that, I would really appreciate the help.
Does the tissue that the core is made of have the [FUNCTIONAL] tag?
I had a similar problem with the animated weapons, and adding [FUNCTIONAL] to the gem allowed them to die properly.
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 23, 2014, 09:45:00 am
Post by: Boltgun on January 23, 2014, 10:10:29 am
I am really bad at adding these weak points. I tried with the pylons/monolith and added a core that has THOUGHT, but it doesnt seem to work. Creatures attack and break their cores, its completely red, but they still live.
If you know how to add that, I would really appreciate the help.
And my wealth is so high now, that its negative. "-a lot."
Oh you had an integer overflow, I wonder what happens then. Invaders come alone and naked ?
Soul wisps and pain elementals are made of a jelly that instakill them when hit. I think it's a STRUCTURAL or FUNCTIONAL tag in the tissue that, combined with THOUGHT, have this effect. Any wound, even a bruise will do kill the creature, so a shell will help define its weakness.
Post by: Meph on January 23, 2014, 10:10:51 am
EDIT:
Quote
Oh you had an integer overflow, I wonder what happens then. Invaders come alone and naked ?What? No, once you reach 120k they just come. Its just flipping a switch, even if the wealth goes below that number, or negative like in this case... once the amount is reached, sieges can come.
Post by: Meph on January 23, 2014, 10:13:21 am
Code: [Select]
[BODY:MONOLITH]
[BP:UB:core:cores][UPPERBODY][THOUGHT][SIGHT][EMBEDDED][SMALL][CATEGORY:BODY_UPPER]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:10]
[BP:LB:body:bodies][CON:UB][LOWERBODY][CATEGORY:BODY_LOWER]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:1000]and this is for the skeletons:
Code: [Select]
[BODY:HUMANOID_SKELETON]
[BP:UB:upper spine:upper spines][UPPERBODY][CATEGORY:BODY_UPPER][SKELETON]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:150]
[BP:LB:lower spine:lower spines][CON:UB][LOWERBODY][CATEGORY:BODY_LOWER][SKELETON]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:150]
[BP:HD:skull:STP][CON:UB][HEAD][CATEGORY:HEAD]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:300]
[TOTEMABLE]
[BP:RUA:right upper arm:STP][CON:UB][LIMB][RIGHT][CATEGORY:ARM_UPPER]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:200]
[BP:LUA:left upper arm:STP][CON:UB][LIMB][LEFT][CATEGORY:ARM_UPPER]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:200]
[BP:RLA:right lower arm:STP][CON:RUA][LIMB][RIGHT][CATEGORY:ARM_LOWER]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:200]
[BP:LLA:left lower arm:STP][CON:LUA][LIMB][LEFT][CATEGORY:ARM_LOWER]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:200]
[BP:RH:right hand:STP][CON:RLA][GRASP][RIGHT][CATEGORY:HAND]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:80]
[BP:LH:left hand:STP][CON:LLA][GRASP][LEFT][CATEGORY:HAND]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:80]
[BP:RUL:right upper leg:STP][CON:LB][LIMB][RIGHT][CATEGORY:LEG_UPPER]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:500]
[BP:LUL:left upper leg:STP][CON:LB][LIMB][LEFT][CATEGORY:LEG_UPPER]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:500]
[BP:RLL:right lower leg:STP][CON:RUL][LIMB][RIGHT][CATEGORY:LEG_LOWER]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:400]
[BP:LLL:left lower leg:STP][CON:LUL][LIMB][LEFT][CATEGORY:LEG_LOWER]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:400]
[BP:RF:right foot:right feet][CON:RLL][STANCE][RIGHT][CATEGORY:FOOT]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:120]
[BP:LF:left foot:left feet][CON:LLL][STANCE][LEFT][CATEGORY:FOOT]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:120]
[BP:L_TRUE_RIB:left true rib:STP][CONTYPE:UPPERBODY][CATEGORY:RIB_TRUE][NUMBER:7][SMALL]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:30]
[BP:R_TRUE_RIB:right true rib:STP][CONTYPE:UPPERBODY][CATEGORY:RIB_TRUE][NUMBER:7][SMALL]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:30]
[BP:L_FALSE_RIB:left false rib:STP][CONTYPE:UPPERBODY][CATEGORY:RIB_FALSE][NUMBER:3][SMALL]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:30]
[BP:R_FALSE_RIB:right false rib:STP][CONTYPE:UPPERBODY][CATEGORY:RIB_FALSE][NUMBER:3][SMALL]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:30]
[BP:L_FLOATING_RIB:left floating rib:STP][CONTYPE:UPPERBODY][CATEGORY:RIB_FLOATING][NUMBER:2][SMALL]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:20]
[BP:R_FLOATING_RIB:right floating rib:STP][CONTYPE:UPPERBODY][CATEGORY:RIB_FLOATING][NUMBER:2][SMALL]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:20]
Post by: jaxy15 on January 23, 2014, 01:55:00 pm
Post by: Meph on January 23, 2014, 02:31:09 pm
The crypt lord doesn't seem to be working. I have a bunch of skeletons, both migrants and constructs. I couldn't use any of them.I have been using one all day ??? The constructed ones dont work, but the embark/migrant skeletons should be fine.
Post by: Splint on January 23, 2014, 02:51:53 pm
I was under the impression such civ members (that is those made artificially) need to be lead by "natural" fort members (embark/migrants,) regardless since that's how it works with civ members made by broodmothers. So migrant or embark bone bags should be fine to lead but built ones won't ever be permitted to.The crypt lord doesn't seem to be working. I have a bunch of skeletons, both migrants and constructs. I couldn't use any of them.I have been using one all day ??? The constructed ones dont work, but the embark/migrant skeletons should be fine.
Also upgraded skeletons aren't permitted to be crypt lords either, at least not initially, as I've occasionally started with ironbone skeletons and no others and it wouldn't allow them to lead their lesser boney bretheren. Were you trying to use upgraded ones?
Post by: jaxy15 on January 23, 2014, 02:51:53 pm
Post by: Meph on January 23, 2014, 02:59:07 pm
Download: Beta V.06 - http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8355 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8355)
I added curious molten slag items to the slagpit. Just for some flavour, you can make these weird furnitures now. Statue, door, table, chair. A black curious molten slag statue of warlocks for example.
I remade the crematory, I didnt like using the dwarven one. The warlock one is a bit smaller, cheaper, makes more ash, and has the wood-to-ash and wood-to-coke reactions that would otherwise be in the smelter. It uses oven operator, to split up the skills a bit.
I deleted the kiln, and added the potash/pearlash to the chemist. (again, not using dwarf stuff)
I deleted the pottery. With the Ethereal portal you have free furniture anyway, its redundant. I deleted all the reactions in the clay oven for this as well.
Ethereal blocks no longer vaporize. I guess people use these blocks in buildings, and would be surprised if they suddenly deconstruct.
I added armorstands, weaponracks, chests and statues to the Ethereal Gate. I noticed that these are often used furniture items that people probably want color coded as well.
You can devour souls now. Gives 250+ attribue boost or 10% speed boost, permanent. Done in the Soul Syphon.
I moved the Control Pylon Making from the soul syphon to the Necromantic Shrine, because all other creatures are made there as well.
I added two new buildings: the red and blue portal, as mentioned yesterday. Thanks Roses. :)
I added two unique features to the werebeast lair: You can turn a warlock into a monster of your choice for 1 month, or a strong monster of your choice forever. It having a dragon or hydra really better than a mage?
Mephits are now less, 1-4 per warlock.
Pain Elementals cost more, 1 large gem instead of 1 small gem. (remember, you can always make large gems from 5 small gems at the gem workshop)
The inscriptor can now unlock constructed skeletons for your squads. It has a free reaction that makes masterworks (which disappear instantly). Once they do this, they can join your squads.
I deleted the spider pit. There will be none. I didnt like the idea of spawned web-spinners, because people have been talking about them being overpowered lately. They negate trap-avoids and make unlimited silk. And spiders are more drow-territory anyway.
(http://i.imgur.com/K0ysLdp.png)
Post by: Meph on January 23, 2014, 03:05:26 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: mahrgell on January 23, 2014, 03:46:29 pm
I would recommend removing at least the bats from the list ^^
Post by: shadowclasper on January 23, 2014, 06:51:58 pm
Post by: zach123b on January 23, 2014, 07:02:03 pm
i'll keep the save around for awhile but i think i'm best off starting a new tower
Post by: CaptainArchmage on January 23, 2014, 07:11:17 pm
Post by: Splint on January 23, 2014, 07:15:43 pm
What happens when you build more than one red or blue portal?
Most recently built ones are the active ones. The others I assume just sit there and look pretty.
Post by: CaptainArchmage on January 23, 2014, 09:32:13 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on January 23, 2014, 11:18:59 pm
1 Make it so the only entrance to your fort is via portal. For the excessively paranoid.
2 Teleport magmalings through a portal with the "Teleport all units within 15 tiles" function. Then activate them.
3 Have one adjoining a bunch of enemies. Construct a portal of the opposite type. Deconstruct the 2nd portal. Place some sort of danger at the old site of the 2nd portal. Teleport an ambush above a magma pit.
4 Use it to rotate pylons around if you're low on them.
5 Use it to transport otherwise uncontrollable undead.
Post by: The_Force on January 24, 2014, 04:52:47 am
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8357
Post by: Nuhaine on January 24, 2014, 04:58:53 am
Fleshsmith:
-Create Flesh Hide. Requires stack of meat, 1 barrel of blood, 1 soul. Can be used for Leatherworking, or Fleshsmith reactions. Items made with it have special properties like dreadnought does.
-Fleshling. Requires Barrels of Blood, Flesh Hides, Soul. Can shear for meat and milk for blood. More ideal than Blood Goat.
-Ghoul Upgrades? Stitch Flesh Hide to ghouls to increase their size or attributes, maybe stacking endlessly but making the Ghoul get bad thoughts for doing so, thus making them prone to tantrums if not pampered?
-Add Arm/Leg to Ghoul? Is it possible to add a additional functional arm or leg to a civ member without turning it into a brand new creature? I feel like this would be a very interesting feature. Instead of having abominations, make your ghouls actual abominations and play with their parts.
-Possibly a use for trophies, giving a Ghoul an ability based on the megabeast trophy you use. Can possibly combine with the suggestion above.
Post by: Meph on January 24, 2014, 06:24:19 am
The game is crashing whenever I try to reload my save. linked to below.Downloaded it, and will have a look.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8357
I've been thinking of some uses for the portals:not all of those will work, because its line-of-sight without 15 tiles. you can teleport enemies, because the worker would be distracted by them.
1 Make it so the only entrance to your fort is via portal. For the excessively paranoid.
2 Teleport magmalings through a portal with the "Teleport all units within 15 tiles" function. Then activate them.
3 Have one adjoining a bunch of enemies. Construct a portal of the opposite type. Deconstruct the 2nd portal. Place some sort of danger at the old site of the 2nd portal. Teleport an ambush above a magma pit.
4 Use it to rotate pylons around if you're low on them.
5 Use it to transport otherwise uncontrollable undead.
There should really be some way to select which portal you get teleported to. There should also be a way to use these teleporters to teleport liquids around.Thats not my jurisdiction. :P
correct.What happens when you build more than one red or blue portal?
Most recently built ones are the active ones. The others I assume just sit there and look pretty.
meph, my game keeps crashing after embarking. i got lucky, i guess, and got a warlock overlord in my starting 7. it appears the game crashes when he summons his mephitsyou didnt get an overlord, every warlock can summon minions. I had the same problem, dont know why. it appears randomly just at embark, since I added some self-targetted interactions to them to delay the minions. :-\
i'll keep the save around for awhile but i think i'm best off starting a new tower
Post by: Meph on January 24, 2014, 06:36:12 am
Build blue portal stone: Get a unit.
Pasture unit where invaders will attack it.
Blue portal stone teleports invaders in range to the blue portal.
That would allow more tactics. :)
PS:mahrgell, you do have a point about the bats. ^^
EDOT: The_Force: I tried loading the save, it crashes while loading, I cant look at anything. No way for me to dertemine whats the cause.
Post by: The_Force on January 24, 2014, 06:55:13 am
EDOT: The_Force: I tried loading the save, it crashes while loading, I cant look at anything. No way for me to dertemine whats the cause.
Damn! I was hoping it was just something wrong at my end. Well looks like I'll have to start another world then.
Post by: Splint on January 24, 2014, 07:13:56 am
Post by: mahrgell on January 24, 2014, 07:17:23 am
I was thinking about morphing all Warlocks in bats around the 4th Obsidian in the next community fort :D
PS:mahrgell, you do have a point about the bats. ^^
Post by: Meph on January 24, 2014, 07:41:57 am
No errorlog, and the gamelog just says: Starting new game. thats it.
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 24, 2014, 08:32:35 am
Because they used to be my best starting vicious hunter who seemed to hold grudge to everything in the world and will run from one map rim to another just to destroy everything that move :D
Now they just stand there not care about anything, I even see the giant dingo walk pass them >:(
Post by: Meph on January 24, 2014, 08:46:33 am
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 24, 2014, 09:11:20 am
Post by: Buel on January 24, 2014, 09:53:02 am
Post by: Meph on January 24, 2014, 10:12:12 am
Post by: somebears on January 24, 2014, 10:23:29 am
The game is crashing whenever I try to reload my save. linked to below.This looks like a 0.05b(or older) save. Does it work in .005b?
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8357
[EDIT:] stupid me. it even says it in the download description
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 24, 2014, 10:30:34 am
Well,I won't run out of hunter any time soon (but I waste them really fast :P)
Post by: zach123b on January 24, 2014, 11:20:38 am
upload link: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8358 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8358)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Meph on January 24, 2014, 11:55:34 am
Post by: zach123b on January 24, 2014, 12:12:31 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Meph on January 24, 2014, 12:19:54 pm
I loaded your save, but it crashes instantly. But I think I know which interactions caused it. I removed them, but its difficult to test.
Post by: zach123b on January 24, 2014, 12:59:37 pm
Post by: mahrgell on January 24, 2014, 01:39:31 pm
Why the 4th Obsidian?Because it makes a nice cliffhanger...
No errorlog, and the gamelog just says: Starting new game. thats it.
Will the next overseer (aka bat) be able to catch all bats in 3 days, before they drop to the ground. Oh and whats funny about fliers... The like to hang around the meeting hall... But not necessarily on the same z-level, but few z-levels above ^^ That's why the roof of my dining hall in hexxedgarish is full of corpses of stupid flying pets, that caught arrows shot over the walls.
Post by: Meph on January 24, 2014, 03:45:57 pm
Slowly getting ready for the release. I playtested a bit more, hopefully caught that early crash that sometimes appeared (so far it looks good), tested the two saves send to me (couldnt do much about them, sorry), and had a look at both IndigoFenix Gnome Beta and Urist McTeellox Orcish Rebalance.
I merged the Studded With Patches release into this, added the Orcs and Gnome changes, and got the GUI updated by Splinterz. You can now select Warlocks and Gnomes as playable.
I also merged Orcs and Taiga Orcs, as well as Kobolds and the playable Kobold Camp Kobolds. This means less chaos in worldgen, and you can get sieged by corsairs and pirates, and might stumble over a kobold druid that tries to steel from you. Or a web-immune kobold caste. And the gnomish caravans probably carry a few new items now.
Goblins are now active summer/winter, Orcs spring/autumn and Kobolds year round. This means you should get 4 caravans when you play Orcs/Kobolds, and get some more action when you play dwarves. (because it effectively 2 races less, so I gave their active seasons to their counterparts)
No picture today. :P
Post by: Morrigi on January 24, 2014, 05:57:16 pm
I know that autosaves can take awhile, but usually no more than a minute or two. This time it stayed frozen.
Post by: Remuthra on January 24, 2014, 06:17:42 pm
and might stumble over a kobold druid that tries to steel from you.But... how did they get the metalworking skill?
Post by: Vabalokis on January 24, 2014, 07:57:27 pm
Post by: Rumrusher on January 24, 2014, 08:28:20 pm
also why not have the spider nest be an unlock for working with the drow hordemaster.
With selling enough souls grants you the ability to tap into their spidernests.
Post by: ThothTheScribe on January 24, 2014, 08:53:25 pm
Post by: Meph on January 24, 2014, 10:09:20 pm
This may be me simply missing something obvious, but how do you pasture a prisoner in the torture chamber? I placed a pasture and my minions kept getting scared by the human repeatedly until he was eventually bludgeoned to death with slade.A human soldier in a cage? Just leave the cage nearby. If thats the case it not a prisoner, but a caged invader. Prisoners are pet-creatures actually called "human prisoner" (literally), that you can pasture like normal pets.
Rumrusher: Spiders from drow make sense, but wouldnt they rather sell you a spider, instead of the technology to make more spiders? ^^ If you have any ideas for the ghosts, let me know. I guess you are talking about dfhack scripts ?
Vabalokis:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Morrigi: Crap. Was it actually saying "SAVING" on the screen when it froze?
Post by: Morrigi on January 24, 2014, 10:13:21 pm
Morrigi: Crap. Was it actually saying "SAVING" on the screen when it froze?Yup. Is that bad?
....I just had an idea though. A Soul Engine. Insert souls, get mechanical power.
Post by: Meph on January 24, 2014, 10:23:37 pm
Well, I have never heard about a freeze while saving. Except when the hardrive is full, so I dont know whats up with that. While it saves it doesnt run any interaction, reactions, things in mods that usually cause problems, it sounds more like something system related to your machine.
Post by: wrightly678 on January 24, 2014, 11:16:30 pm
i demand a picture for todayDay 24 Warlocks and gnomes
A Shitty photoshop image for you
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Edit: dammit I figured I'd make a quick image, but meph beat me too it, his looks better too.
Post by: Splint on January 24, 2014, 11:35:36 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on January 24, 2014, 11:51:06 pm
TLDR: Warlock mode is decently fun, but its very difficult to get room value high.
EDIT: The default slade boulder throwing thing is NASTY. My necromancer was fetching a coyote corpse for butchering and he got interupted by a coyote. Then he slade bouldered him in the leg, making him give in to pain. The next shot was in the head. And the manual says its supposed to be armor piercing. I am seriously doubting the nessecity of having librararies to learn more advanced spells if the basic one kills or maims THIS easily.
EDIT X2 combo: On the other hand, firing deadly missiles from your hands means that when the warlocks go insane from the lack of room quality they'll carve a bloody(boney) swath through your fort.
EDIT X3 combo: Also the Restless walker things are really tough to kill. I spawned one out of curiosity. It currently has killed the entire animal population of the embark 4 times. His kills:
11 coyotes
7 giant dingoes
8 badgers
3 stranglers
Not bad for something spawned from one unit of meat. Now imagine 20 of them. **Evil smile**
Post by: Splint on January 25, 2014, 12:19:17 am
Quote
EDIT: The default slade boulder throwing thing is NASTY. My necromancer was fetching a coyote corpse for butchering and he got interupted by a coyote. Then he slade bouldered him in the leg, making him give in to pain. The next shot was in the head. And the manual says its supposed to be armor piercing. I am seriously doubting the nessecity of having librararies to learn more advanced spells if the basic one kills or maims THIS easily.
Depends on the creature and where they get hit really. Bigger animals will often only get bruised or shallow cuts and smaller ones tend to dodge mine until the minions jump on them and pretty much hold them in place.
Quote
EDIT X3 combo: Also the Restless walker things are really tough to kill. I spawned one out of curiosity. It currently has killed the entire animal population of the embark 4 times. His kills:Most of those are relatively small, unarmed besides teeth and claws, and completely unarmored though. How do they fare against armed and armored humans or what have you?
11 coyotes
7 giant dingoes
8 badgers
3 stranglers
Not bad for something spawned from one unit of meat. Now imagine 20 of them. **Evil smile**
Also, the stonecrafter shop is your best friend for helping with value (and building stuff of use in general before you have that portal thing,) alongside engraving and general size.
Post by: Nuhaine on January 25, 2014, 12:32:09 am
Quote
Unless I happen to stumble across a HUGE gem vein I rarely get more then 10-12 gems per fort. Thats partly because I don't stripmine that much. If I decided to strip-mine for gems with mostly low-level miners, it'd take quite a while to get enough gems for the legendary engraver.
There are a number of ways to acquire gems in this mod, as well as glass from the vanilla reactions. You can lure caravans that have them, press coke into them at the screw press (Hint: Gather peat -> compact peat in screw press -> smelt peat to coke -> press coke to gems in screw press.) or more easier, collect sand.
Post by: Arcvasti on January 25, 2014, 01:08:30 am
Unless I happen to stumble across a HUGE gem vein I rarely get more then 10-12 gems per fort. Thats partly because I don't stripmine that much. If I decided to strip-mine for gems with mostly low-level miners, it'd take quite a while to get enough gems for the legendary engraver.Thanks, that'll help with alot of the problems I'm having so far. I even embarked on a map with peat.There are a number of ways to acquire gems in this mod, as well as glass from the vanilla reactions. You can lure caravans that have them, press coke into them at the screw press (Hint: Gather peat -> compact peat in screw press -> smelt peat to coke -> press coke to gems in screw press.) or more easier, collect sand.
Post by: Rumrusher on January 25, 2014, 01:15:58 am
given that this only happens on skeletons I guess I should just enlist a ghoul army than use skeletons
Post by: Arcvasti on January 25, 2014, 01:23:58 am
Quote
Depends on the creature and where they get hit really. Bigger animals will often only get bruised or shallow cuts and smaller ones tend to dodge mine until the minions jump on them and pretty much hold them in place.
I'm thinking that this will wreak havoc on invaders. Except for automatons, frost giants and drow ninjas, most invaders either don't have legendary dodging skill or armor-grade skin, so even if the slade doesn't penetrate armor, they'll still have broken hands and feet.
Quote
EDIT X3 combo: Also the Restless walker things are really tough to kill. I spawned one out of curiosity. It currently has killed the entire animal population of the embark 4 times. His kills:
11 coyotes
7 giant dingoes
8 badgers
3 stranglers
Not bad for something spawned from one unit of meat. Now imagine 20 of them. **Evil smile**
Quote
Most of those are relatively small, unarmed besides teeth and claws, and completely unarmored though. How do they fare against armed and armored humans or what have you?
I don't think they'll do that well. I use them for hunting without having to do the work of getting my ghouls to murder wildlife for souls
Quote
Also, the stonecrafter shop is your best friend for helping with value (and building stuff of use in general before you have that portal thing,) alongside engraving and general size.
I'm not sure that minimum quality stone stuff will help all that much and I got the portal up in the first month. Smoothing walls is definitely a good idea and larger rooms is something I never thought of. I just don't like huge amounts of stone cluttering up the place, especially since the only thing you need it for is hourglasses.
Post by: Splint on January 25, 2014, 01:38:39 am
So far so good, some migrants came and for once the ghouls and minions played nice and didn't try to kill eachother. Whatever you did seems to have worked so far Meph.
Post by: Arcvasti on January 25, 2014, 01:58:29 am
Step 1: Have wood on the map
Step 2: Have someone cut down 10 trees
Step 3: Build a crematorium and a screw press
Step 4: Turn 10 wood into 30 coke
Step 5: Press coke into diamonds
Step 6: ???
Step 7: Profit!!!!
EDIT:
(Step 8: Optional) repeat steps 1-7 5 times and use the resulting gems to boost a skeleton to legendary engraver skill
Post by: Splint on January 25, 2014, 02:07:28 am
Post by: somebears on January 25, 2014, 04:33:53 am
Is anyone able to run this with linux?
Also:
Would someone(Windows or working linux) be so kind and test this save for me?
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8362 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8362)
0 frames since embark.
What I want to know:
- One of the Ghouls is causing an explosion of rotten meat. Does it still happen for you?
- Do more explosions happen later on?(just let it run for one or two minutes)
What I found out about my little Problem so far:
- not using dfhack does not stop it
- It stops If I break the line of sight between the ghoul and everyone else
- It continues, once they see some other creature again
- It seems to consist of Two parts: One part where rotten meat flies in every direction and one where it only goes in one direction
- The second one seems to be hot and is displayed with a red tile. (If it hits the wagon/the drinks a fire starts. After the fire the wagon and the drinks are gone)
Post by: Jaso11111 on January 25, 2014, 05:54:38 am
I sould at least be able to farm the evil ones.
Post by: SharpKris on January 25, 2014, 06:27:27 am
I've finally found a solution to the room value problem:
Step 1: Have wood on the map
Step 2: Have someone cut down 10 trees
Step 3: Build a crematorium and a screw press
Step 4: Turn 10 wood into 30 coke
Step 5: Press coke into diamonds
Step 6: ???
Step 7: Profit!!!!
EDIT:
(Step 8: Optional) repeat steps 1-7 5 times and use the resulting gems to boost a skeleton to legendary engraver skill
you should keep watch on your value, you wouldn't want to trigger sieges too early
Post by: Octobomb on January 25, 2014, 08:43:17 am
Can you remove the gnome? That Warlock is SO COOL. I WANT IT FOR MY BACKGROUND.i demand a picture for todayDay 24 Warlocks and gnomes
A Shitty photoshop image for youSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Edit: dammit I figured I'd make a quick image, but meph beat me too it, his looks better too.
Post by: Meph on January 25, 2014, 09:02:46 am
the artificial gems are in the Ebonforge, which also makes the new glasses. I think 15 gems is fine for a legendary worker.
Post by: Denisac on January 25, 2014, 11:49:38 am
I wish there was some way to farm trees like in dwarf mode :(
I sould at least be able to farm the evil ones.
You can still build a sawmill the last I checked (under the industry workshops). That will let you get your hands on acorns and spores when your lumberjacks are smoothing wood. This assumes you did not get any at embark. Just set them to farm and restrict your fields (d->o->r) to keep your guys from randomly stomping your seeds out of the ground on their way to kicking the occasional puppy. Warlocks tend to make poor farmers, but if you need trees, you need trees.
As an additional note, the ethereal portal makes for a near instant stone carving industry now that the blocks do not vaporize anymore. Cannot set a workflow yet to stop production, but that's not surprising given that it is a new workshop generating the blocks.
Post by: Meph on January 25, 2014, 12:07:46 pm
You still cant use the farmed trees. ;)I wish there was some way to farm trees like in dwarf mode :(
I sould at least be able to farm the evil ones.
You can still build a sawmill the last I checked (under the industry workshops). That will let you get your hands on acorns and spores when your lumberjacks are smoothing wood. This assumes you did not get any at embark. Just set them to farm and restrict your fields (d->o->r) to keep your guys from randomly stomping your seeds out of the ground on their way to kicking the occasional puppy. Warlocks tend to make poor farmers, but if you need trees, you need trees.
As an additional note, the ethereal portal makes for a near instant stone carving industry now that the blocks do not vaporize anymore. Cannot set a workflow yet to stop production, but that's not surprising given that it is a new workshop generating the blocks.
Post by: LMeire on January 25, 2014, 12:25:21 pm
Post by: Meph on January 25, 2014, 12:35:52 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on January 25, 2014, 12:39:25 pm
I've finally found a solution to the room value problem:
Step 1: Have wood on the map
Step 2: Have someone cut down 10 trees
Step 3: Build a crematorium and a screw press
Step 4: Turn 10 wood into 30 coke
Step 5: Press coke into diamonds
Step 6: ???
Step 7: Profit!!!!
EDIT:
(Step 8: Optional) repeat steps 1-7 5 times and use the resulting gems to boost a skeleton to legendary engraver skill
you should keep watch on your value, you wouldn't want to trigger sieges too early
On the other hand, if I get that legendary engraver, I can start actually doing things with nobles and have warlocks above "very unhappy". Besides, after looking at what my bone armed and armored ghouls do to wildlife, early ambushes shouldn't be a problem, unless they're ninja drow. If they are, I'm going to lock the door to my tower and have my warlocks shoot slade at them from the top. Also, since my Keeper of Knowledge keeps mandating cages, I could put some cage traps up to deter early game ambushes and take them down once my military is good enough.
the artificial gems are in the Ebonforge, which also makes the new glasses. I think 15 gems is fine for a legendary worker.
Ah, thats neat. I think I'll start using that once I've cleared the map of trees for my coke into diamonds thing. It'll also give me something to do with junk stone: Turn it into sand at the millstone. Then turn that into glass. Then grind ores. More gems. Gems are definately the big bottleneck for warlocks. You need them for high quality ANYTHING, ground gems for sigils and large gems for pylons.
Yeah, I should probably add something that uses up seeds.Why? Just farm them at a farmplot. Then shred them at the plant shredder. Tada
Post by: Meph on January 25, 2014, 12:58:27 pm
Gems, Souls and Skins should be the bottleneck for Warlocks. ;) Spells and Books barely require gems btw
Post by: HorrorToaster on January 25, 2014, 01:00:28 pm
Post by: Shadow9657 on January 25, 2014, 01:19:08 pm
Post by: Meph on January 25, 2014, 01:24:08 pm
Post by: wrightly678 on January 25, 2014, 01:44:49 pm
Can you remove the gnome? That Warlock is SO COOL. I WANT IT FOR MY BACKGROUND.Sure, Also included Plague Green edition
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: SharpKris on January 25, 2014, 02:37:14 pm
for some reason i can't active fort mode for them
Post by: jaxy15 on January 25, 2014, 03:00:19 pm
how do i active warlocks as playable? 0_oThey are already playable.
for some reason i can't active fort mode for them
Post by: SharpKris on January 25, 2014, 03:01:52 pm
how do i active warlocks as playable? 0_oThey are already playable.
for some reason i can't active fort mode for them
god i'm drunk
Post by: Arcvasti on January 25, 2014, 03:19:25 pm
plant shredder cant shred them yet, but I will add that. :)I haven't gotten any scalps yet, so I haven't even started on the book industry thing. Souls are pretty easy to get though. I'm in early autumn in the first year, I have ethereal portal and around 10 constructed skeletons and I'm still drowning in souls. I was having my warlocks devour them for speed boosts in batchs of 5 because I had so many. Now I'm storing them in peat hourglasses. You get excess souls a lot if you're doing anything major with a creatures bones. Normally it goes something like this:
Gems, Souls and Skins should be the bottleneck for Warlocks. ;) Spells and Books barely require gems btw
Kill creature and get bones and soul
Then you can use the bones AND the soul to make a skelly. And thats fine, no excess there.
I start getting lots of souls when I'm using the bones to make armor or weapons for my ghouls. Also, fun fact: Souls are in the head bodypart. After my ghoul decapitated 4-5 badgers and I only butchered the corpses, I noticed a distinct lack of souls.
Post by: Meph on January 25, 2014, 04:28:11 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on January 25, 2014, 04:32:42 pm
Yeah, its the THOUGHT bodypart. The brain in most cases, that was easiest to add, because not all creatures have the same upper body.Makes a certain amount of sense. Won't that mean that creatures without thought(EX: Giant water sponges)won't leave souls?
Post by: Meph on January 25, 2014, 04:34:00 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on January 25, 2014, 04:38:57 pm
thats true, but how do you want to kill a sponge anyway?
Thats about the first test that you give a warlock. Send him to kill the invincible. ;)
And there's always airdrowning, drow ninjas, and freezing then mining it out.
Post by: Morrigi on January 25, 2014, 05:14:59 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on January 25, 2014, 05:15:56 pm
Warlocks don't appear to have access to the ore processor. Is this intended?
I believe so. Meph said something to that effect earlier.
Post by: Meph on January 25, 2014, 05:23:32 pm
Post by: Jaso11111 on January 25, 2014, 06:18:38 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on January 25, 2014, 06:32:07 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on January 25, 2014, 06:34:17 pm
Post by: Blazebase on January 25, 2014, 06:49:18 pm
Got attacked by a squadron of Dwarves in the first year, they killed off about 6 of my ghouls in the process but I managed to fend them off and capture 8 of them in turn. Wanted to replenish my numbers.
I converted them over to ghouls and thought they were good to go, but I remembered in the last fort that I made they just started spamming error messages the minute I released them from their cages, they were interrupted by my own people, except my skeletons, and killed by my ghouls after a while. Thought I sparked a loyalty cascade.
I was somewhat right.
I took a closer look at the new ghouls and it turns out that they are still members of the opposing civilization, in this case "The Ticks of Barbarities"
All of my civilization members except my skeletons, who don't seem to show that they are members of my civilization and also are not enemies to opposing civilizations, are enemies to "The Ticks of Barbarities" and will make an effort to evade, injury and ultimately kill them as if they were still dwarves.
That's were it get's tricky.
My newly converted ghouls don't show that they are members of my fort BUT they still act as if they were. They attempt to preform any task given to the civilization, yet they are still scared off or get aggroed by my civilization members who are AGAINST their civilization that they still are members to.
So, every time I open the cages, a mini-loyalty cascade starts, and only ends when all the converted ghouls are killed off, or if the converted ghouls manage to kill of all my mages and ghouls.... but not my skeletons.... I have yet to see the latter happen for I am more aware of this problem.
What do I do...?
Don't know how to post pics, would if i could for evidence.
Post by: Meph on January 25, 2014, 06:59:40 pm
Post by: Meph on January 25, 2014, 07:21:10 pm
Testing, Testing, Testing. Mostly trying to replicate these crashes some people have been reporting, but not much luck so far. I am mostly taking notes for balancing.
The last things I want to add are quite easy to mod (weather, special gear), so I am mostly trying to get a good balancing for the raiding and prisoner system, but I noticed that it does not always trigger right. -.-
And now that problem with the corruption of invaders. Mh... I think I know a way around it: Give them a self-kill interaction that also spawns a new ghoul. Instead of transforming them, I just get rid of the old unit and make a completly new one. AAaahhh, have to rewrite the entire thing.
Tomorrow I will try to release a new test version. :) I think I found the reason for some freezes, the new digging invaders AI is messing them up. ^^
Post by: Blazebase on January 25, 2014, 07:26:58 pm
Post by: HorrorToaster on January 25, 2014, 07:31:46 pm
Post by: zach123b on January 25, 2014, 07:32:37 pm
next wave i got a skeleton that was attacked by a witch which im not sure about what happened. end result was the skeleton went berserk and a ghoul died from it, i preceded to learn how to use 'killitwith' plugin with violence, fire (then rain) and finally gravity
the child was apparently sucked dry by the mother i believe (unsure as it was right before i got sieged)
during the siege of around 10 dwarves (middle of autumn) i built a wall to close my settlement off and... the game froze on me
last save has me at the start of autumn with the child, maybe ill abandon and start a new fort same world
Post by: Denisac on January 25, 2014, 10:31:02 pm
The wagon was parked on top of a slate spire atop a cave which I've been hollowing out. I lucked into a very 'evil magus tower' type location.
Post by: Splint on January 25, 2014, 10:57:52 pm
Post by: SharpKris on January 26, 2014, 10:22:43 am
Post by: Arcvasti on January 26, 2014, 05:41:55 pm
Post by: Blazebase on January 26, 2014, 07:08:39 pm
is there any other way to get warlocks besides the first 3 migrant waves?You could go on a mass butchering spree and spend all the souls you get on attracting the dead in the embassy quarters. It only seems to work in spring, summer and autumn in the first year, after that you are out of luck, seeing as you can't trade, you can't increase the value of the fort. So no migrants can come.
Although there should be something that allows more warlocks to come based on population size. sort of like a milestone system based on how many spawned creatures you have, but I doubt that is within the limits of DF or DFhack.
Or just enable trade with the home civ, but I think no trade was intended. :/
Post by: SharpKris on January 26, 2014, 07:36:33 pm
atm i restart until i get 2 warlocks, 1 mistress, 2 skeletons, 1 ghoul from there on out i hope for around 6-7 locks in total.
Post by: Meph on January 26, 2014, 07:39:59 pm
Quote
You could go on a mass butchering spree and spend all the souls you get on attracting the dead in the embassy quarters. It only seems to work in spring, summer and autumn in the first year, after that you are out of luck, seeing as you can't trade, you can't increase the value of the fort. So no migrants can come.This is so wrong. ^^
If you want more Warlocks: "startdwarf X" and embark with X civ members. But no, there are 2 migrant waves, and thats it.
Still can't get the mod to work. I'll probably have to redownload because I can't do anything. Not gen a new world or load a save game without crashing. Might be a problem on my end as I've had problems like this with autosaves turned on before. Thing autosaves, then I save game right afterward and I can't load the original save after. I've never been barred from world generation though. I'm running DF on my netbook, so FPS isn't the best in case that matters for causing crashes.I cant help you with that, it sounds system related. Aka your Netbook causes the issues.
is there any other way to get warlocks besides the first 3 migrant waves?Nope.
Doesn't that mean you would have to do the same trick like you did with the skeletons in order to recruit them in the military?Yes. -.- But at least it works better than having a loyality cascade.
Post by: Meph on January 26, 2014, 07:45:37 pm
I honestly wanted to take the day off today, to get well rested and power through the last days with fresh energy, but then got a bad conscience and did a little something for you guys anyway. :)
I continued forum support and testing today, but didnt plan to mod. But well, here are two tiny new buildings, to give you something to do with the Armoks Gems: Tear and Blood of Armok:
(http://i.imgur.com/9sizY1X.png)
EDIT: Thanks to Arcvastis feedback: They now have 6 reactions. Spawning liquids on the same level is free, and spawning liquids on the same level AND the level above (even through solid floor) costs another of the tear/blood of armok gems. You can build these under the surface, wait for things to run over them, then spawn liquids above as below. Thats obviously very powerful, but you need on of the gems for each activation.
(Before anyone says that this is unbalanced: Warlocks dont have any problems with combat. Its keeping your limited amount of Warlocks alive that is the important part. And adding free unlimited water and magma will cause accidents in the long run... which might make the corpse unaccessable or burn it, preventing resurrection at the altar.)
Post by: Arcvasti on January 26, 2014, 07:51:21 pm
Ah, allright then. Sorta weirded out because It ws working fine for the first 3 seasons and then spazzed out. I should probably start using my desktop computer for DF more often. I'm definately doing that for Cathedral once my turn rolls around for that.Still can't get the mod to work. I'll probably have to redownload because I can't do anything. Not gen a new world or load a save game without crashing. Might be a problem on my end as I've had problems like this with autosaves turned on before. Thing autosaves, then I save game right afterward and I can't load the original save after. I've never been barred from world generation though. I'm running DF on my netbook, so FPS isn't the best in case that matters for causing crashes.I cant help you with that, it sounds system related. Aka your Netbook causes the issues.
Also, ninja'd on the update. I'm not sure that I prefer this to the magmaling or waterling style system. Will the spawing go through the floor? Because if so I'd love to have magma fountains one z-level below surface and spawn huge amounts of magma in an invaders face. It'd kill a bunch of souls and scalps, but it'd be fun. Unlimited water sounds like it'd be really good, especially for non-alchohol dependent warlocks.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 26, 2014, 07:55:25 pm
Could you have a 'Induct Recruit' type deal? Very, very, very, very rarely. Raids would turn up not a prisoner, but a Recruit. Someone who you brought to the library and turned into a new warlock? Would explain where new warlocks come from since there's no breeding or blood lines or anything?
This would solve the issues of warlocks being too uncommon maybe?
The only other option I could think of is to have SOMETHING that all migrants could potentially bring with themselves that could be sacrificed in a reaction to bring into existence a new warlock? Something that would allow us to avoid the whole beginning without any warlocks problem? I dunno, it just bugs me that there's no garuntee of warlocks in each of the migrant waves.
Post by: Meph on January 26, 2014, 08:13:10 pm
Quote
EDIT: Thanks to Arcvastis feedback: They now have 6 reactions. Spawning liquids on the same level is free, and spawning liquids on the same level AND the level above (even through solid floor) costs another of the tear/blood of armok gems. You can build these under the surface, wait for things to run over them, then spawn liquids above as below. Thats obviously very powerful, but you need on of the gems for each activation.
shadowclasper: No new warlocks. You get the Warlocks you get, and you have to keep them alive. Thats the design, thats the entire idea behind this race. You dont play a civilization that conquers the world, but individuals. Every dead warlock should be a "oh no, that guys was super imporant" moment.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 26, 2014, 08:19:09 pm
Post by: Meph on January 26, 2014, 08:21:28 pm
Agreed, but at the same time your chances of getting less than 1 warlock in both your migrant waves should be nonexistent. Even if the migrant wave contains no new warlock migrants, you should have some way of getting a warlock migrant OUT of them. That way all warlock fortresses will have 2-3 warlocks in them.That cant be done.
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 26, 2014, 08:23:08 pm
My current tower only have 1. He is overlord, fresh monger and manager , all in one person. ;D
Kind of challenge but easy to micro at the same time.
Post by: Meph on January 26, 2014, 08:24:38 pm
Post by: Nuttycompa on January 26, 2014, 08:45:01 pm
Don't have magic industry running yet. Abd my skelaton count is only 14
My only way to survive is throw all my ghoul
Post by: shadowclasper on January 26, 2014, 08:49:01 pm
Agreed, but at the same time your chances of getting less than 1 warlock in both your migrant waves should be nonexistent. Even if the migrant wave contains no new warlock migrants, you should have some way of getting a warlock migrant OUT of them. That way all warlock fortresses will have 2-3 warlocks in them.That cant be done.
oh well then.
Post by: LMeire on January 26, 2014, 09:56:30 pm
Post by: shadowclasper on January 27, 2014, 04:43:17 am
That's potentially really good!
Perhaps a building? Rather than just a reaction? The blood and tears of armok are made into buildings? Perhaps the bone of armok as well? Something like the Crucible of Bones?
Post by: SharpKris on January 27, 2014, 05:27:27 am
So something that converts Iron into Bloodsteel? Which can then be made into dreadnaught?
That's potentially really good!
Perhaps a building? Rather than just a reaction? The blood and tears of armok are made into buildings? Perhaps the bone of armok as well? Something like the Crucible of Bones?
making a workshop that combines the three and takes souls in the transmuting reaction sounds decent.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 27, 2014, 05:43:13 am
You put iron or other metals in with souls.
Out pops bloodsteel?
Which can then be used at the corrupted forge to make dreadnaught?
The other option is that Bone or Armok is also a well. The Bone Well, it creates a big old dust cloud in various amounts? It won't kill a Skeleton but certainly inconvenience them? (though that feels like it breaks the spirit of the wells. It doesn't have a high chance of making bodies of say, warlocks, inaccessible.)
I think using Bone by itself, rather than all 3, to make a Crucible of Bones, which works to produce bloodsteel more cheeply, would be the best thing.
Post by: LMeire on January 27, 2014, 06:01:57 am
Post by: SharpKris on January 27, 2014, 06:18:51 am
say it takes a few books or a specific one that is hard to make?
Post by: shadowclasper on January 27, 2014, 06:25:10 am
I still like the idea of it being used for a forge or something for building stuff rather than production of liquids, since that's how bone of armok works in relation to tears and blood of armok right?
Post by: razorback on January 27, 2014, 01:05:58 pm
Agreed, but at the same time your chances of getting less than 1 warlock in both your migrant waves should be nonexistent. Even if the migrant wave contains no new warlock migrants, you should have some way of getting a warlock migrant OUT of them. That way all warlock fortresses will have 2-3 warlocks in them.That cant be done.
I remember that in dwarf mode, you altered the amount of firemages arriving in migrant waves - why isn't it possibly with warlocks?
Post by: Rumrusher on January 27, 2014, 08:29:20 pm
Dev Log - Day 25how hard is it to convert an invader? like if you can Gm editor an invader manually you could automate the event. Wonder if people want more migrants could just use the 'force migrant' wave the command.
Testing, Testing, Testing. Mostly trying to replicate these crashes some people have been reporting, but not much luck so far. I am mostly taking notes for balancing.
The last things I want to add are quite easy to mod (weather, special gear), so I am mostly trying to get a good balancing for the raiding and prisoner system, but I noticed that it does not always trigger right. -.-
And now that problem with the corruption of invaders. Mh... I think I know a way around it: Give them a self-kill interaction that also spawns a new ghoul. Instead of transforming them, I just get rid of the old unit and make a completly new one. AAaahhh, have to rewrite the entire thing.
Tomorrow I will try to release a new test version. :) I think I found the reason for some freezes, the new digging invaders AI is messing them up. ^^
Post by: Arcvasti on January 27, 2014, 08:41:03 pm
You can't force migrants if your civ is dead and since warlocks can't have children in world gen, the civ dies out after a generation. This is intended.Dev Log - Day 25how hard is it to convert an invader? like if you can Gm editor an invader manually you could automate the event. Wonder if people want more migrants could just use the 'force migrant' wave the command.
Testing, Testing, Testing. Mostly trying to replicate these crashes some people have been reporting, but not much luck so far. I am mostly taking notes for balancing.
The last things I want to add are quite easy to mod (weather, special gear), so I am mostly trying to get a good balancing for the raiding and prisoner system, but I noticed that it does not always trigger right. -.-
And now that problem with the corruption of invaders. Mh... I think I know a way around it: Give them a self-kill interaction that also spawns a new ghoul. Instead of transforming them, I just get rid of the old unit and make a completley new one. AAaahhh, have to rewrite the entire thing.
Tomorrow I will try to release a new test version. :) I think I found the reason for some freezes, the new digging invaders AI is messing them up. ^^
Post by: Splint on January 27, 2014, 09:11:06 pm
You can't force migrants if your civ is dead and since warlocks can't have children in world gen, the civ dies out after a generation. This is intended.Dev Log - Day 25how hard is it to convert an invader? like if you can Gm editor an invader manually you could automate the event. Wonder if people want more migrants could just use the 'force migrant' wave the command.
Testing, Testing, Testing. Mostly trying to replicate these crashes some people have been reporting, but not much luck so far. I am mostly taking notes for balancing.
The last things I want to add are quite easy to mod (weather, special gear), so I am mostly trying to get a good balancing for the raiding and prisoner system, but I noticed that it does not always trigger right. -.-
And now that problem with the corruption of invaders. Mh... I think I know a way around it: Give them a self-kill interaction that also spawns a new ghoul. Instead of transforming them, I just get rid of the old unit and make a completley new one. AAaahhh, have to rewrite the entire thing.
Tomorrow I will try to release a new test version. :) I think I found the reason for some freezes, the new digging invaders AI is messing them up. ^^
Actually the civs don't typically die out (at least not for me,) but no trade with home means no migrants. Of course maybe a soul powered version of the dwarven town portal to the central tower/dungeon/whatever could be used to bring over a "Novice Warlock" who lacks the ability to learn spells or help wrangle skeletons until trained and empowered to do so, perhaps at the villainous academy with a mix of souls both to get the novice and empower him/her and books on fighting with magic, using wraithblades and staves, and controlling undead minions. This would make getting new warlocks a resource intensive affair so while you could get many, you'd need to use a lot of souls (say 20 souls to power the gate and pay for the novice to be permitted to join a new dungeon, plus however many are needed to empower him with full magic power) that could potentially be better spent elsewhere.
Post by: Nuhaine on January 27, 2014, 09:22:18 pm
Agreed, but at the same time your chances of getting less than 1 warlock in both your migrant waves should be nonexistent. Even if the migrant wave contains no new warlock migrants, you should have some way of getting a warlock migrant OUT of them. That way all warlock fortresses will have 2-3 warlocks in them.That cant be done.
A reaction that kills all the Civ members on the map, except for the worker running the reaction. Then it spawns at random 3-5 Warlocks, or a fixed number? This would allow a civilization to reset their warlock numbers. It could also give the unit the ability to cast a spell that made the same function, killing everything except the unit, making the unit begin to bleed profusely and then create the warlocks. It would come at a heavy resource and unit cost, in addition to creating the hassle of having to memorialize everything that died, and the risk of having no military. It could also be an option to keep all of the Grand Covocation upgrades without losing all of your warlocks.
Additionally, the summoned warlocks might have to come with the same Discipline skill that the Skeletons have to make them historic entities.
This reaction could take place in the Grand Covocation and cost 50 souls, to somewhat prevent the abuse of building one before the migrant waves.
This would allow the replenishment of warlocks, at a great cost.
Post by: Meph on January 28, 2014, 01:49:12 am
Long day of more testing. I also would like to propose a tutorial fort... maybe the last 2 days I can do one large fort, and make a lot of screenshots that explains the features. Mostly because playing the Warlocks is so vastly different from the other races.
For today we have:
- pylon balance: controling skeletons is now by line of sight, but range is increased from 15 to 25. This means wider range, but no longer through rock/walls. Should lead to more complex setups. Pylons still power through walls. :)
- gem shredder is better: Can now accept cut gems as well.
- tree shredder is better: Can now accept farmed saplings as well and gives back seeds. Can also shredd feather or glumprong now.
- ore shredder is better: Can now accept metal bars as well. (figured quite a lot of metal will come from molten down gear)
- wraithblade/warlock staff are redone. They are no longer ranged weapons, but instead add interactions using itemsyndrome. The staff adds slade boulder shooting with range of 15, the blade adds a slow effect that can be cast when the enemy is within 7 tiles. Both reasonably good for "hunting". The weapons can be made from metal at the forge, sharp rocks at the crafter, or bone in the boneforge.
- slade shooting gone from Warlocks. They no longer can do this by default, but instead need to hold a staff.
- attorney now sells glumprong logs and evil plant seeds. I thought that its quite hard to get those when you dont embark on an evil biomes. So here you go, 2 souls for either 3 logs or 25 seeds.
Post by: shadowclasper on January 28, 2014, 02:36:54 am
Dev Log - Day 27Sounds great!
Long day of more testing. I also would like to propose a tutorial fort... maybe the last 2 days I can do one large fort, and make a lot of screenshots that explains the features. Mostly because playing the Warlocks is so vastly different from the other races.
Post by: Geneoce on January 28, 2014, 03:49:34 am
how hard is it to convert an invader? like if you can Gm editor an invader manually you could automate the event. Wonder if people want more migrants could just use the 'force migrant' wave the command.
For me the uniqueness of your units is what does it for me. In every other variation your main civ members end up being nothing more than slightly expensive cannon fodder. I like how Warlock changes that. It really hurt when I lost 2 warlocks to an elven ambush. I'm sure it hurt the elves too when I shredded them with ghouls again and again in retaliation. But those warlocks are gone and i've had to adjust dramatically to account for it. Fun of a different variety.
Makes for better stories/more unique play style imo.
Post by: Mardius on January 28, 2014, 11:38:33 am
Post by: Meph on January 28, 2014, 01:31:29 pm
Post by: somebears on January 28, 2014, 03:41:57 pm
- some names are too long. Maybe shorten/change them, so we can easily see what a reaction is doing?
eg.:
"Summon black etheral bed"
to:
"Summon black bed (etheral)"
- the Crematorium is in the building list twice
- sometimes creatures have the wrong color in the unit screen. This is insanely confusing
- Skeletons seem to drop a corpse with all their items upon embark
- "Minion Command" is worth a fortune
also: will there be another beta before all is over?
Post by: Meph on January 28, 2014, 03:48:19 pm
- Wrong color in unit screen: ?
- Skeletons drop not a corpse, but only their gear, because the first tick they are opposed to life
- Minion command was lacking value/size, is fixed
- Long names: The mod is designed for Windows, not linux. Its not an issue on windows, since it uses ttf.
also: will there be another beta before all is over?
- I can upload one today if you want, but in 3 days I release it anyway.
Post by: Splint on January 28, 2014, 04:03:22 pm
Is it just me or are the ghouls more "Squishy" in the v6 update? Lost two flail wielding ghouls to coyotes not long ago. The coyotes just ripped them apart :o
Armed ghouls won't bite or claw nearly as much and those tend to do a lot of damage for ghouls. Numbers help of course.
Post by: somebears on January 28, 2014, 04:03:47 pm
- Wrong color in unit screen: ?in the unit screen Warlocks are blue, skeletons are white and ghouls brownish. Or is that not the intention?
I guess it has something to do with skill levels in professions.
I would love a last beta. More bug hunting!
Post by: LMeire on January 28, 2014, 06:12:54 pm
- Wrong color in unit screen: ?in the unit screen Warlocks are blue, skeletons are white and ghouls brownish. Or is that not the intention?
I guess it has something to do with skill levels in professions.
I would love a last beta. More bug hunting!
Colors are based on professions; warlocks are blue because necromancy (prayer) is a crafting skill, skeletons are white because they rarely have any skill in anything which makes them peasants, and ghouls are brown because of their natural butchering skill which makes them farmworkers.
Post by: Meph on January 28, 2014, 07:32:30 pm
Post by: somebears on January 29, 2014, 05:08:40 am
I kinda liked it that I was able to easily see who is a skeleton/ghoul/warlock in the unit screen
Post by: saintclair on January 29, 2014, 03:38:46 pm
Mod version: 0.6 beta, reported as masterwork 0.4h
Tileset: Whichever tileset is active upon default. I just downloaded and pressed go.
- After having one of my warlocks drained of blood by a vampire I had at embark (thanks to forgetting to produce blood), I built a blood winery, producing blood wine. However, next season, another warlock is found dead. I queued up a job to brew blood wine in manager screen, and noticed "Drink blood wine to sate thirst for 3 months." I could not find this in any building, though I did not build the vampiric lair. The manual does not make mention that the vampires will not automatically drink the blood wine if it is available. If this is not a bug, I recommend a side note in the manual saying so.
- I was having issues with ambushing elves, so what I resorted to doing was building a great number of cage traps, and decided to build a kill room. After designating an overlord and sending another warlock with him, I released a naked elf to be killed. After doing so, a ghoul dragged him off to be butchered. A soul was produced, but no warlock characteristically rushed to store it in an hourglass. I could, however, consume the soul straight off.
- In the manual, it is listed that "living stone" can be butchered for meat. However, I was unable to obtain any dropped rocks of living stone, only pools of blood. Though the blood is helpful, I think the manual was slightly incorrect, as the kitchen itself did not have an option to butcher the living stone.
- I don't know if this can be fixed, but I had several instances where warlocks would marry ghouls. Quite disturbing.
- Are barghests supposed to be able to reproduce? I took males and females at embark, but over the course of a year and a half they never managed to produce pups(?)
- Minions occasionally do not show up in the z-animals list. They will sometimes, then they spontaneously will not.
- This may be due to my relative inexperience with dwarf fortress itself (I have only been playing for about 3 months, and this always has confused me), but no matter what I do, my ghouls that are assigned to hunt won't do it. I understand that in the base game you need to give a dwarf a ranged weapon to do it, but to my knowledge, ghouls cannot use them. So they won't hunt.
- (Possible basegame bug, possible error between seat and keyboard): During my killroom jaunt, I at first tried to unassign the captives from their cages to a pen in the room itself. No one would ever come to reassign the elves, however when I tried with rhesus macaques, it worked one time, then not ever afterwards.
There were also a few random in-game crash bugs:
All of these games have been done on the pre-gen map "Gears of War" with less than 50 years of history. Always embarking on the outer rim, usually heavily forested, thick vegetation, temperate to warm climate, with a river right there.
- I had to start a game, and then save to go do something else right afterward. I hadn't played 60 seconds. Upon trying to load, it crashed constantly. Don't have any more details.
- Upon new embark on a map with some kind of branching river delta heading north, I had a sudden crash.
Again, I'd like to reiterate that I'm no expert on DF, and even less so on masterwork DF, but this is just some playtesting that I've done because it looks like a fantastic addition, and I'd like to help in the ways that I can.
I will take more tedious notes of what maps I embark on for crashes.
Post by: Splint on January 29, 2014, 03:47:24 pm
Post by: LMeire on January 29, 2014, 05:45:47 pm
In order:
Workers of any race typically choose the closest available food/drink, regardless of their preferences or your convenience. I've been remedying this issue by burrowing vampires away from the dormitories/bedrooms, perhaps you can try something similar?
Are you sure you had hourglasses to spare? I'm pretty sure hourglasses get destroyed in the creation of phylacteries, which would necessitate constant production.
Living stone has been bugged for a while, just ignore it.
"Gender-neutral" citizens apparently choose a gender on world-gen, just accept the marriages as proof that warlocks are depraved and move on. (Bonus, sometimes the lovely couples will have children somehow.)
No idea, they might just have a long incubation period.
Did they die? You don't get another one if they die.
Hunting requires the use of a ranged weapon, which ghouls cannot use effectively by design. What you're supposed to do is assign all of your "hunters" to a military squad, then you issue a squad order to make the "hunters" kill a target. More/better information at the wiki, http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Squad (Make sure to set standing orders to gather remains from outside, or this will be useless to you. http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Standing_orders)
I think animal hauling is a low-priority job, I suggest making a few skeletons or ghouls just for hauling.
Post by: saintclair on January 29, 2014, 07:06:08 pm
Okay, so it's just a mechanics issue and my oversight for the vampires.
For the souls issue, I'm 100% sure I had hourglasses to spare. I intentionally made around 20 for the slaughtering of the elves, and they were in a stockpile that had worked before. I'll try to replicate it.
As for the marriages, I didn't know if that was supposed to be disabled. Still, gross.
I'll try to see if the barghests will ever reproduce.
For the hunting, I figured as much. I'll take note.
My apologies for turning what was supposed to be some bug reporting into a "new player can't figure out the quirks of DF" post. :P
Post by: LMeire on January 29, 2014, 08:24:35 pm
In any case, don't worry about it. About a third of those things actually are bugs rather than intended quirks, and most of the others are totally new.
Post by: Boltgun on January 30, 2014, 08:04:09 am
I'll assume marriage and kidsignore tokens, like a lot of citizen mechanics. I wish the citizen code was more supple.
Post by: dukea42 on January 30, 2014, 04:24:41 pm
She had all but two dead when finally finished.
I think my embark was off. I thought I was in a high savage place, but I only saw giant hornets to hunt. I had one zombie from the graveyard that did nothing to those goblins (or them to it). Would this mean I was accidentally in good zone? There wasn't any feather wood or other signs of that. Starvation was about to occur before those goblins showed up in the second year.
Possible bug. The embassy needed a soul item but the phylacteries would not work. I tried checking when there was a free souls but it may have already been hauled to be syphoned.
Post by: Meph on January 31, 2014, 06:57:21 am
I added the ability to turn prisoners into Ghouls and Skeletons, bone wolves, golems and gargantuan bone golems to the fleshsmith, and moved the summon caravan and the slayrace mechanic to the sator workshop. Proofread the manual, had no errorlog, crashes or anything else problematic. Only the prisoner torturing/searching does not trigger 100% of the time... but since its free and costs no reagents I guess thats not a major issue.
Post by: DeathShad0 on January 31, 2014, 04:00:13 pm
Is it a bug?
Post by: Carp McDwarfEater on January 31, 2014, 04:33:13 pm
Quote
Alright, something's not right. My warlocks aren't using hourglasses and making phylacteries. I have over twenty hourglasses to spare and souls that keep piling up from my butchers as well as a soul siphon right next to them.
Is it a bug?
You have some warlocks with sorcery enabled, right? By default they don't have that labor turned on and it took me a while to figure out that that's why one of my forts wasn't storing souls.
Post by: DeathShad0 on January 31, 2014, 04:50:07 pm
You have some warlocks with sorcery enabled, right? By default they don't have that labor turned on and it took me a while to figure out that that's why one of my forts wasn't storing souls.Ah hell, that's probably it.
Something else I noticed was my phylacteries disappearing from my finished goods stockpile bins. The soul siphons don't double as storage for these, do they?
Post by: zach123b on January 31, 2014, 08:58:06 pm
using dfhack createitem isn't helping either :(
can anyone guide me to how to get a shell for the poor bloke? or should i wait for him to die and resurect him? would he still be insane/berserk/melancholy?
and btw meat > blood > bloodwine seems off, 22 meat makes 10 blood which makes 10 bloodwine then the vampire consumes all the bloodwine [10], hoping this is unintentional :-X
Post by: Meph on January 31, 2014, 09:14:45 pm
Shells: probably hard to find. ^^
Post by: Hefateus on February 01, 2014, 02:22:12 am
Post by: Meph on February 01, 2014, 04:53:23 am
Post by: Carp McDwarfEater on February 01, 2014, 07:00:05 pm
Post by: Meph on February 01, 2014, 08:08:54 pm
Seeds only from the Demonic Attorney or the Herbalist. Or killing caravans.
Post by: Rum on February 01, 2014, 08:17:04 pm
Post by: Splint on February 01, 2014, 08:20:31 pm
Is it possible to obtain seeds somehow after you embark? I've noticed a common trend in that my butcher shops get so backed up that everything is a skeleton by the time it gets butchered. Also, what am I supposed to do with all this bone?!
After they slaughter something they continue at the skeleton that gets left behind, making something called a bone chop that counts as meat. I learned I had to forbid those leftover partial skeletons early on to make sure my ghouls would rip the souls out of the fresh kills and not keep hacking away at the skeletons, unless that got changed in the release.
Post by: Carp McDwarfEater on February 01, 2014, 08:42:07 pm
Oh, and thanks for the answer Meph.
Post by: Splint on February 01, 2014, 08:59:14 pm
Ah, upon closer inspection I noticed that sometimes my gohuls seem to try butchering the same skeletons several times over, to no avail. Does it just take a really long time to get these bone chops, or am I experiencing an actual bug?
My guess is they just keep making them, but if there's a large pile of bones and skeletons that probably lengthens the process considerably. I haven't had a dungeon last long enough though to really do much beyond those observations. Keep getting wiped out by dwarves or humans if I try to fight them, or elves just ambush their way right to the front door and kill everyone while I have my ghouls chasing things or collecting wood.
Post by: Carp McDwarfEater on February 01, 2014, 09:32:44 pm
Post by: DeathShad0 on February 01, 2014, 10:02:06 pm
I've been mostly cowering behind drawbridges and trying to find ways to feed my guys without going outside much. Since skeletons don't need to eat or drink though, I've been thinking about building a big tower with archer skeletons walled in on every floor, basically working as cheap turrets.Yeah, I've been having some trouble as well. These guys are either hard to play as, or it's just my general inexperience with Dwarf Fortress shining through.
Post by: Geneoce on February 02, 2014, 07:44:14 am
Edit: Nope, just had a bad download!
Post by: Gamerlord on February 02, 2014, 07:56:21 am
Post by: Nuttycompa on February 02, 2014, 09:04:07 am
Seem like my DF have some problem with zombie.
I did't change any setting except turn FortressDefendRace on.
Post by: Meph on February 02, 2014, 10:16:52 am
Post by: Stuebi on February 02, 2014, 11:40:51 am
- Is there any way to get more Warlocks/Witches? My first two embarks only had one, and the Manual says while they're immortal if done right, they cant reproduce. Im a bit worried if i'll be able to manage with just one Lock, considering how many nobles one can appoint and the amount of things Warlocks can do.
- I wanted to try out the Rendermax-Ligthing, since it looks pretty cool. I couldnt find a manual on how to activate it and what exactly it changes. Could anyone point me in the right direction?
Thanks for the help and also great work on the Mod and races! I almost couldnt conain my excitement when seeing Warlocks as a playable race. :D
EDIT: Also, how do Warlock-Twoers and Crypts look on the Map? I was able to find a Gravestone-symbol, but the site was empty.
Post by: Nuttycompa on February 02, 2014, 12:02:56 pm
- You can turn rendermax on at GUI, it will make nighttime and cave dark without light source. But not effect any game mechanic yet.
- In vanilla it is purple "I"
Post by: Carp McDwarfEater on February 02, 2014, 12:23:14 pm
Post by: Meph on February 02, 2014, 12:30:29 pm
Post by: Stuebi on February 02, 2014, 12:40:27 pm
- Just set the necroshrine up make body stockpile near it, when your lock die, use random skeleton with prayer labor to resurrect him. And make sure you do that before he begin to rot :P
- You can turn rendermax on at GUI, it will make nighttime and cave dark without light source. But not effect any game mechanic yet.
- In vanilla it is purple "I"
Thank you! Found a Warlock Tower now. :D
That covers resurrection then, but what about getting a compeltely _new_ lock? Do they migrate or is there a way to train one?
Post by: Carp McDwarfEater on February 02, 2014, 01:38:12 pm
- Just set the necroshrine up make body stockpile near it, when your lock die, use random skeleton with prayer labor to resurrect him. And make sure you do that before he begin to rot :P
- You can turn rendermax on at GUI, it will make nighttime and cave dark without light source. But not effect any game mechanic yet.
- In vanilla it is purple "I"
Thank you! Found a Warlock Tower now. :D
That covers resurrection then, but what about getting a compeltely _new_ lock? Do they migrate or is there a way to train one?
If you get your two migrant waves and still don't have enough warlocks, you can just abandon and reclaim.
Post by: Neri on February 02, 2014, 08:21:12 pm
There is just your small number of warlocks, your skeleton marrying, undead creating, spell obsessed neurotic warlocks.
Plus maybe a vampire or two to eat them. I mean, drink blood out of barrels.
Yep. Never drink from your endangered, valuable and rare warlocks.
So no, there is no "get more warlocks" function after the two migrant waves, and the point is to safeguard them at all costs, as the minions are all expendable. Warlocks (and those filthy leeches I suppose) are not.
Post by: Stuebi on February 03, 2014, 12:59:41 am
The Warlocks are fairly easy to play, having undead, horribly evil spells and tough minions at their command, as well as the ability to simply make new minions (The skellies and Ghouls) to balance this, and because it is thematically awesome, there are are no more migrants, no civilisation to call new members from.
There is just your small number of warlocks, your skeleton marrying, undead creating, spell obsessed neurotic warlocks.
Plus maybe a vampire or two to eat them. I mean, drink blood out of barrels.
Yep. Never drink from your endangered, valuable and rare warlocks.
So no, there is no "get more warlocks" function after the two migrant waves, and the point is to safeguard them at all costs, as the minions are all expendable. Warlocks (and those filthy leeches I suppose) are not.
Ah! I wasnt aware that there are two migrant waves. Im totally fine with a low Warlock-count, but it seemed odd to only have _one_ when you get unlucky on embarking.
EDIT:
Also, is there a recommended Tileset? I usually try Phoebus or Ironhand, but im unsure if the Warlocks and their minions have Graphics in those.
Post by: Meph on February 03, 2014, 02:46:16 am
Post by: Jaso11111 on February 03, 2014, 06:58:27 am
Oh and where can i grow my evil plants? I tried on a haunted one but it dint work.
Post by: mahrgell on February 03, 2014, 07:01:29 am
Post by: Rumrusher on February 03, 2014, 07:16:07 am
oh yeah I remember I drew some Warlock fanart. back when I got the news of my battle warlock and ghoul lord got married.
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 03, 2014, 07:33:59 am
terrifying>haunted>sinister
Technically a biome is either evil, neutral, or good. Further modifications are based on savagery.
Sinister: Evil/Calm
Haunted: Evil/Wilderness
Terrifying: Evil/Untamed Wilds
But practically, terrifying biomes are the most dangerous.
Post by: Jaso11111 on February 03, 2014, 08:21:47 am
terrifying>haunted>sinister
Technically a biome is either evil, neutral, or good. Further modifications are based on savagery.
Sinister: Evil/Calm
Haunted: Evil/Wilderness
Terrifying: Evil/Untamed Wilds
But practically, terrifying biomes are the most dangerous.
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 03, 2014, 08:41:37 am
I also had some problems assigning my Crypt Lord. At Embark i had a Dreadnought Skeleton, which as i understand it is pretty damn awesome. When i Embarked i quickly set him as my Crypt Lord and gave him a nice Tomb, but eventually i noticed his status had been stripped. I tried to reassign him, but he would not show up in the Noble selection screen.
Havent played a massive amount, but so far its been interesting. Although i cannot say i agree with building a Dungeon. Id think id rather build an awesome black castle with the unlimited supply of blocks from the Ethereal Gate. Also Ghouls are amazing. I had 3 annoying Leprechauns harassing my people, so i assigned a single Ghoul to kill them. He proceeded to run them down and literally bite their heads off. I was surprised at his speed. Leprechauns are not exactly slow moving creatures.
Is there any way to get the special arrow types? Id like to make some stronger arrows for hunting. Normal Wooden just dont cut it and i need dem soulz.
Post by: Jaso11111 on February 03, 2014, 09:27:32 am
Edit: Is limestone or granite magmaproof?
Edit 2: Magma well dosent work. It eats the gem (for the trap one) but nothing happens. The normal ,free, reactions dont work either.
Post by: Jaso11111 on February 03, 2014, 09:55:09 am
Post by: Gildemoron on February 03, 2014, 03:33:59 pm
Post by: Splint on February 03, 2014, 03:58:54 pm
Whats with butchers chopping xxx's partial skeletons over and over in butchers workshop? I have noticed that butchering invaders (humans, elves, dwarfs etc.) creates these partial skeletons
They use them to make bone chops, which are counted as meat, in small stacks. You can just forbid or dump them somewhere to get them to stop.
Post by: rEvolutionTU on February 03, 2014, 04:39:35 pm
So far I've tried to rush towards more Zombies/Skeletons, grabbed all the souls on the map and tried to work from there, is the idea more to bring two anvils, get the Boneforge asap and throw everyone into leather armors? Should you hide behind walls and bridges like in regular DF?
Usually I'd check a Let's Play or something similar but I don't think there is any released yet. I'm kind of looking for an early roadmap I think. All seems super easy to me till that first siege/ambush. All my civ settings and stuff like that are left at default.
Random typo in the manual:
Quote
Pylons: You might have noticed that skeletons turn opposed-to-life now and then. If they run too far from your Warlocks, you cant control them. Build a network of Pylons at the Soul Syphon to establish control across the map. More info later in the manual.
Should read "Necro Shrine" instead of "Soul Syphon".
Post by: Splint on February 03, 2014, 04:48:56 pm
Just get whatever wood you think you'll need before the end of the first summer. Evidently Warlocks may not be able to farm trees, making them considerably less bright than most dwarves. Haven't actually been able to get a sawmill up to check.
I have a suggestions, those being two cryptlords, one for melee and one for ranged combat, and using prisoners (caged preferably, but those taken in raids could be used too) as live bait to attract ghouls with a 50-50 shot at success (either they'll hear/smell the poor bastard and kill and eat him him, netting you a new ghoul and a dead POW, or they won't, leaving you with the prisoner and grumpy thoughts that you have to try again.)
Post by: rEvolutionTU on February 03, 2014, 05:14:10 pm
Post by: Splint on February 03, 2014, 05:20:10 pm
Hmmm... I'll try that, cheers. Still wondering if we're maybe both missing something since "just hide for the first couple sieges" doesn't sound like the thing Meph would force one to do with a race that seems built around killing stuff and turning killed stuff into more stuff. =P
Between the bone bags needing to be controlled and no migrants after the first two due to no trading there really doesn't seem to be any other decent options, especially if the elves come to play since they can just waltz right up to the front door until the next game version comes out. Once you have a sufficient number of skeletons and a warlock to lead them fighting sieges becomes significantly easier though.
Post by: Carp McDwarfEater on February 03, 2014, 08:15:39 pm
Post by: Geneoce on February 03, 2014, 08:20:49 pm
It seems that no matter what I capture, be they skunks, bone wolfs or lions, will refuse to breed. Did you disable breeding somehow Meth?
Also I'm not sure if its intentional or not but butchering captured prisoners yields nothing what so ever.
I've also had some issues corrupting caged invaders, an orc artisan specifically, into a ghoul.
Post by: Arcvasti on February 03, 2014, 08:41:09 pm
Is anyone else having trouble breeding livestock?
It seems that no matter what I capture, be they skunks, bone wolfs or lions, will refuse to breed. Did you disable breeding somehow Meth?
Also I'm not sure if its intentional or not but butchering captured prisoners yields nothing what so ever.
I've also had some issues corrupting caged invaders, an orc artisan specifically, into a ghoul.
A lot of wild animals have longer incubation periods then domestic animals. Animals also won't breed in cages and I thought that warlocks had animal training disabled, so its hard to get them out of cages safely. There's no way to raise animals for meat with warlocks, besides starting with some if you're lucky or some elaborate set-up with feral animals and cages. The nothing from captured prisoners definitely sounds like a bug. I think your problem with the invader corruption might be that the victim is an artisan, which is a special caste in the orcs. That might interfere with the corruption script.
Post by: Splint on February 03, 2014, 08:46:32 pm
What do you guys usually do for food while you wait out sieges? Have you been able to find a way to get seeds for edible plants? The Demon Attorney sells blood goats, but I'm not sure if they're grazers. If not, buying a herd of them seems like the most solid plan.
I usually have plants to feed the sorcerers and the small number of ghouls your start with shouldn't be able to burn through that much food too quickly. And if you managed a secure waterway, you can always have the ghouls fish and keep them fed that way.
Is anyone else having trouble breeding livestock?
It seems that no matter what I capture, be they skunks, bone wolfs or lions, will refuse to breed. Did you disable breeding somehow Meth?
Also I'm not sure if its intentional or not but butchering captured prisoners yields nothing what so ever.
I've also had some issues corrupting caged invaders, an orc artisan specifically, into a ghoul.
You may just not be waiting long enough to see any results or there just happened to be no opposite sex members in a group you caught, making for no pregnancies. Some animals won't breed period though, usually certain evil ones (bone wolves don't sound like they'd be able to reproduce) or the special ones elves bring in dwarf mode. May as well just capture, "tame" and commence to slaughtering them for their souls.
As far as corruption goes that was a bit buggy to begin with, so that's not really surprising. Hence my idea for using them as live bait for ghouls instead. Spawn a whole new critter and gets rid of the prisoner, though of course the corpse will probably be useless as a result what with the ghoul eating the poor bastard...
The prisoner thing sounds like a bug to me what with the reliance on them for plotting raids. Probably a missing bracket somewhere :P
EDIT: Damn it, ninja'd.
Post by: Geneoce on February 03, 2014, 08:53:03 pm
-words-
-more words-
Ah thanks mates. I was thinking the special caste may have been the problem.
As to the lack of animal training I've been setting skeletons to trainers in the internal labour manager, so there's no shortage of trained animals. I do think breeding is disabled though, because I'm not certain that skunks have a 3+ year incubation period and I do have both female and male tamed specimens. Going to reembark anyway due to a vampire deciding that wine wasn't as good as the purple life-fluids of my overlord. Will do some further testing.
I thought it was strange because they used to drop stuff when marked for butchery, prisoners that is. Guess I'll just keep turning them into ghouls. In respects to caged invaders what workshop has the lure ghoul reaction?
Post by: Arcvasti on February 03, 2014, 08:56:55 pm
-words-Sigged
Post by: Rumrusher on February 04, 2014, 02:31:34 am
oh wait I remember warmist made a disguise plugin that allows units to get away with murder maybe it's possible to use that to convert prisoners into minions, or strip the soul of any hostilities of the site?
Post by: Meph on February 04, 2014, 03:04:49 am
Its in the Torture Chamber. (luring ghouls can be done at the graveyard, using meat)
Post by: Boltgun on February 04, 2014, 03:16:35 am
Really like the idea of converting people into corrupting the soul itself and all that technical mumbojumbo so, hearing word that ghouls don't co-op properly kinda made me sad.
oh wait I remember warmist made a disguise plugin that allows units to get away with murder maybe it's possible to use that to convert prisoners into minions, or strip the soul of any hostilities of the site?
The soul is being stripped of hostility in addition to a simple makeown. There seem to be edge cases that the conversion does not cover. Since I am debugging it, I would be interested in a save where converted ghouls still act as enemies.
Perhaps if the invader gets an attack before being converted it remains an enemy but so far all my attempts in turning enemies to my side have been successful.
Post by: Geneoce on February 04, 2014, 08:13:34 am
Make ironbone picks, make wooden bucklers, draft all the skeletons and instant militia. The dogpile of stabby is so satisfying after loosing so many locks to those bloody ambushes.
Now if only I could get my hands on some mattocks...
Post by: DoX on February 04, 2014, 12:42:22 pm
- Souls tagged with their civ can't be made into phylacteries. "Human Soul", "Dwarf Soul", etc. "Soul" can. You've said it's just a mix-up with the REACTION_CLASS with the new version of Orc Fort, so I'm sure it's easily resolved.
- Butchers constantly butchering "Partial Skeleton". It's not just slow to butcher, it's taken a master ghoul butcher an entire year, and he's still hacking away at a single corpse. This does end up giving you -tons- of "chops", which makes food production a breeze, but it means you have to selectively forbid every partial skeleton if you want to butcher fresh corpses for souls. If there's any way to remove partial skeletons, make them decay faster, make them unbutcherable, etc. that would be greatly appreciated.
- Ethereal items don't seem to fade away very quickly, namely they seem to last at least a year, or three seasons minimum. Is this intentional?
- Training is a bit buggy, especially the crypt lord army. Periodically, if set to train, they'll randomly be removed from the squad, and become ineligible for "Crypt Lord" noble status. Do skeletons gain skills in weapons/armor just through combat? There doesn't seem to be a reaction in inscribing.
Post by: Meph on February 04, 2014, 12:56:59 pm
- Nothing I can do about the butchering of bodyparts. -.-
- Ethereal blocks/furniture does not fade away. Only ethereal armor/weapons. Should take 3-4 months.
- Sounds like they were removed from the squad because they turned opposed-to-life for a bit, before a warlock/pylon retook control. They do learn combat skills naturally, with a 50% learn rate.
Post by: Dragonfly on February 04, 2014, 01:25:18 pm
Vampires. I lock them in their own nice room. They always die of thirst (five games, lots or dead vampires). If I put a few casks of cheap strawberry wine in with them, they drink that and do fine. ???? I thought they didn't need food or drink, and would never touch the alcohol.
Bags. Yikes! How to get enough bags for all the gold dust, herbs, raiding kits, etc... I have a 50 tile rope reed farm and just cannot keep enough bags for all the spell components. Does training a warlock with a new spell destroy the bags? It seems like it, but I think it should not.
Ghouls - the ones from the graveyard appear naked, and quickly become unhappy about it. Need to have a strong clothing industry if you want to mass summon ghouls. Would be nice if they could wear small and /or large things left over from the seiges. I have all my cloth going towards bags. Also - why do ghouls care if they are naked?
Raids and Books. How about letting us raid a library or tower to find books. Perhaps even the town raid could provide books. I have a fort going into year 4 and have only made 40 books. I want them all and I want to make all the spells I want everything. But it goes so slowly.
Thanks again for making this mod. I just love telling my wife I am going to church because it is fun (to get scalps, heheheh insert evil laugh)
Post by: rEvolutionTU on February 04, 2014, 01:38:51 pm
- Ethereal blocks/furniture does not fade away. Only ethereal armor/weapons. Should take 3-4 months.Should be fixed in the manual. Also "an Ethereal Gate"
(getting started)
Quote
Once you have 3 full phylacteries (hourglass with soul), build a Ethereal Gate. It allows free furniture and blocks. Mind that you need to use the blocks quickly, they will disappear after a while. If you build a wall or floor with them, they will stay.
Speaking of souls, how do you assign them to a stockpile? It looks like there are multiple souls to choose from.
Post by: Arcvasti on February 04, 2014, 04:26:49 pm
EDIT: Nevermind, 25 grudges. He's friends with the vampire I've kept locked away since day 5.
Post by: DoX on February 04, 2014, 09:26:22 pm
Bags. Yikes! How to get enough bags for all the gold dust, herbs, raiding kits, etc... I have a 50 tile rope reed farm and just cannot keep enough bags for all the spell components. Does training a warlock with a new spell destroy the bags? It seems like it, but I think it should not.
Ghouls - the ones from the graveyard appear naked, and quickly become unhappy about it. Need to have a strong clothing industry if you want to mass summon ghouls. Would be nice if they could wear small and /or large things left over from the seiges. I have all my cloth going towards bags. Also - why do ghouls care if they are naked?
- Given how much butchering you'll be doing, it's so much easier to make leather bags. You should have hundreds of bins of leather by the time two or three sieges have hit you.
- Same answer, leather shirts and shoes and such. I get the same problem, especially with my first few summoned ghouls. Once in a while I even get one that seems to want a room, and a bed!
Also, Meph
- I have the same problem getting Ghouls into a squad as I do with Skeletons. I can run the masterwork reaction to make skeletons viable, but ghouls from the graveyard can't be put into any army. Do they need to do something first?
- Caged invaders: The entire system with them seems broken, as far as I've managed. The only reaction with them I've been able to do is turn them directly into ghouls. Problem is, then I've got ten/twenty caged ghouls! I have to build every cage, and connect each one to a lever, because they can't be pastured or released! Then, when I do, they don't show up on the civ or any screen. Can't we have a simple reaction that turns caged invaders into prisoners?
Post by: Arcvasti on February 04, 2014, 09:44:09 pm
TLDR: Skeletons are OP, but whips are more OP.
Post by: Splint on February 04, 2014, 10:03:45 pm
Skeletons are ridiculously hard to kill. Even the bone ones. I shudder to think about what a dreadnought one would be like. One of my skellies had a failed mood and went berserk. I sent in my squad of 5 bone clad and armed lasher ghouls to deal with it. 25 pages later, the ghoul master with the bronze scourge gets lucky and bisects him. The skeleton is by this point a spine, a lower body and a head. He's also in the middle of my workshop area, disrupting things.
TLDR: Skeletons are OP, but whips are more OP.
Skeletons are considerably less OP up against steel armed humans.
Post by: DoX on February 04, 2014, 10:52:46 pm
Buildings like the shrine, alter, circle, that have the option of building them with "fresh" souls, that is souls that haven't been preserved in phylacteries. Problem is, those souls still wither, and the workshop breaks (akin to ice melting). Removing the option to use non-preserved souls might be good.
Post by: Arcvasti on February 04, 2014, 11:07:57 pm
Here's a new one.
Buildings like the shrine, alter, circle, that have the option of building them with "fresh" souls, that is souls that haven't been preserved in phylacteries. Problem is, those souls still wither, and the workshop breaks (akin to ice melting). Removing the option to use non-preserved souls might be good.
Its a feature. If you want a quick, but temporary workshop up, then you can use the fresh souls.
Thats true. But my point was that skeletons are much harder to kill then the feeble fleshlings.Skeletons are ridiculously hard to kill. Even the bone ones. I shudder to think about what a dreadnought one would be like. One of my skellies had a failed mood and went berserk. I sent in my squad of 5 bone clad and armed lasher ghouls to deal with it. 25 pages later, the ghoul master with the bronze scourge gets lucky and bisects him. The skeleton is by this point a spine, a lower body and a head. He's also in the middle of my workshop area, disrupting things.
TLDR: Skeletons are OP, but whips are more OP.
Skeletons are considerably less OP up against steel armed humans.
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 04, 2014, 11:23:46 pm
- Training is a bit buggy, especially the crypt lord army. Periodically, if set to train, they'll randomly be removed from the squad, and become ineligible for "Crypt Lord" noble status. Do skeletons gain skills in weapons/armor just through combat? There doesn't seem to be a reaction in inscribing.
Ive had the same problem. My Crypt Lord seems to randomly get removed from the position. I can understand if its the "control" thing doing it, but after my Warlocks gain control of the Skeleton again, he does not show up on the Noble Selection screen.
Post by: Splint on February 04, 2014, 11:56:24 pm
Post by: Meph on February 05, 2014, 12:04:31 am
Post by: Geneoce on February 05, 2014, 04:51:05 am
EDIT: The Emissary is also missing a bait dwarfs reaction i've noticed.
Post by: Meph on February 05, 2014, 05:00:38 am
Quote
Meth
Quote
Meth
Quote
Meth
There it is again... has been a while since I have been called Meth.
Siege Operator = Good point. It was in the military skills in the wiki, thats why that one slipped through my grasp. I will add it. :)
Post by: Neri on February 05, 2014, 05:37:58 am
Post by: Geneoce on February 05, 2014, 05:51:53 am
Post by: Szarrukin on February 05, 2014, 09:49:15 am
Post by: Splint on February 05, 2014, 10:25:22 am
Post by: hanspeter on February 05, 2014, 04:59:38 pm
[DF folder]\hack\scripts/eruption.lua:69: attempt to perform arithmetic on local 'ry' (a nil value)
stack traceback:
[DF folder]\hack\scripts/eruption.lua:69: in function 'eruption'
[DF folder]\hack\scripts/eruption.lua:125: in main chunk
(...tail calls...)
Spawned ghouls can't join the military as they don't have a reaction for masterwork items. How about spawning them with legendary Discipline as well and add a temporary [NO EMOTION] to the masterwork reaction which lasts just long enough for the item to decay (and then perhaps sets the discipline skill to zero as it's not really needed for anything but the reaction, is it?).
Post by: mahrgell on February 05, 2014, 05:03:08 pm
Post by: Jaso11111 on February 05, 2014, 05:23:08 pm
Two things so far: Magma Well doesn't spawn anything. dfhack console reads:Same here. I wanted to make a lava moat :(
[DF folder]\hack\scripts/eruption.lua:69: attempt to perform arithmetic on local 'ry' (a nil value)
stack traceback:
[DF folder]\hack\scripts/eruption.lua:69: in function 'eruption'
[DF folder]\hack\scripts/eruption.lua:125: in main chunk
(...tail calls...)
Post by: hanspeter on February 05, 2014, 05:38:23 pm
Couldn't reproduce it to properly verify but I think Ghouls are affected by their own (or maybe zombie, I couldn't check) bites and start rotting away which leads to endless surgery loops and never healing.
Also, how about a Demonic Steamengine? Like a normal power generator just fired with souls instead of regular fuel.
Post by: dukea42 on February 05, 2014, 06:12:02 pm
After my last fort that had early goblin siege take me out basically in the same situation (there I atleast had time to get ironbone and ashland glass started), I am wondering what am I doing that is raising hatred towards me so quickly...
Does anyone have any other options I should take? I lost a few skeletons and a warlock outside the wall, I may be able to field 2 ghouls, 6 Skeletons and 4 Warlocks if I can get this unprocessed iron smelted enough for weapons and mail shirts.
Also as a balance concern. I have a dream of fielding Dreadnaught Skeletons with Ebonyglass Armor just for the mental image (and dreadnought is really expensive!). However, where does Ebonyglass, Ashlandglass fit in with other "slightly better than steel" metals like mithril and bloodsteel or dreadnought. I ask, because the cost of Ebony is much higher than Ashland or Mithril and even really bloodsteel (it needs 3 semi-rare ingredients to find in one embark), but with it's weight, it's not clear from the stats if that's worth the cost for armor's or cutting weapons, etc.
Post by: Meph on February 06, 2014, 12:53:37 am
Post by: Boltgun on February 06, 2014, 03:19:18 am
I had a dwarven siege first autumn as well, the siege triggers have to be raised.
I found out that the siege triggers are acting weird when you are a babysnatcher civ. Usually the enemies attack at year 2, with one squad depending of your production.
Post by: Jaso11111 on February 06, 2014, 12:32:54 pm
Post by: Godlysockpuppet on February 06, 2014, 12:33:53 pm
Post by: Splint on February 06, 2014, 12:48:59 pm
So can warlocks make pearlash? My KON kinda wants a clear glass window in his (underground) room.
I believe so. Fairly certain warlocks are able to buy some at embark.
Post by: palu on February 06, 2014, 02:15:28 pm
One of my ghouls just got taken by a strange mood, claimed a craftsmans shop, grabbed two kaolonite boulders, and created a kaolinite abacus encrusted with kaolinite cabochons
Post by: BlackFlyme on February 06, 2014, 02:17:43 pm
I'm pretty sure this isn't supposed to happen.
One of my ghouls just got taken by a strange mood, claimed a craftsmans shop, grabbed two kaolonite boulders, and created a kaolinite abacus encrusted with kaolinite cabochons
Moods can still happen regardless of what you play as unless you disable moods altogether.
Post by: Splint on February 06, 2014, 02:19:41 pm
I'm pretty sure this isn't supposed to happen.
One of my ghouls just got taken by a strange mood, claimed a craftsmans shop, grabbed two kaolonite boulders, and created a kaolinite abacus encrusted with kaolinite cabochons
It'll happen no matter what. All playable races experience moods unless artifacts is disabled. humans, Warlocks (and by extension skeletons/ghouls,) dwarves, you name it. Just won't get any skill gains in this case.
EDIT: Damn it, ninja'd.
Post by: palu on February 06, 2014, 02:21:26 pm
Oh. It just seemed weird. There's no way to disable them by creature or caste then?I'm pretty sure this isn't supposed to happen.
One of my ghouls just got taken by a strange mood, claimed a craftsmans shop, grabbed two kaolonite boulders, and created a kaolinite abacus encrusted with kaolinite cabochons
Moods can still happen regardless of what you play as unless you disable moods altogether.
Post by: Splint on February 06, 2014, 02:24:02 pm
Oh. It just seemed weird. There's no way to disable them by creature or caste then?I'm pretty sure this isn't supposed to happen.
One of my ghouls just got taken by a strange mood, claimed a craftsmans shop, grabbed two kaolonite boulders, and created a kaolinite abacus encrusted with kaolinite cabochons
Moods can still happen regardless of what you play as unless you disable moods altogether.
Nope. It's either moods or no moods.
Post by: Meph on February 06, 2014, 02:42:52 pm
Pearlash can be made, in the Chemist.
Post by: Jaso11111 on February 06, 2014, 04:42:52 pm
I was building a platform over a magma lake in the first cavern when a giant mole rat got in via an opening a missed and attacked my skeli worker. In the fighting the skeli was knocked over the edge and strait into magma. Assuming him (her?/it?) dead i had my ghouls deal with the rat and continue construction. A while later i got the announcement that an other magma lake was discovered, but i hadent explore any yet. So i looked and founded that it was several z lvls below me. Knowing that skeletons are magma proof i checked and, sure enough, my skeli was not only alive but compliantly unharmed, just going down the lava like it was slide! Eventually he even found candy and soon came to rest at the bottom of the magma, still unharmed in the slightest btw. And no he isint upgraded in any way, he is just a normal bone skeleton.
Soooo yea... ???
EDIT: Now he got a mood. This sould be fun?
Post by: megahelmet on February 06, 2014, 07:55:51 pm
So... this just happend:
I was building a platform over a magma lake in the first cavern when a giant mole rat got in via an opening a missed and attacked my skeli worker. In the fighting the skeli was knocked over the edge and strait into magma. Assuming him (her?/it?) dead i had my ghouls deal with the rat and continue construction. A while later i got the announcement that an other magma lake was discovered, but i hadent explore any yet. So i looked and founded that it was several z lvls below me. Knowing that skeletons are magma proof i checked and, sure enough, my skeli was not only alive but compliantly unharmed, just going down the lava like it was slide! Eventually he even found candy and soon came to rest at the bottom of the magma, still unharmed in the slightest btw. And no he isint upgraded in any way, he is just a normal bone skeleton.
Soooo yea... ???
EDIT: Now he got a mood. This sould be fun?
Why are you confused? Seems like just another day in "My Little Dungeon, Magma is Magic!"
Post by: Blazebase on February 07, 2014, 03:11:39 am
First up, Those zombies that are spawned in the lvl 2 nerco building? Those things are lacking a lot of traits that would strike me as zombie like, plus there is the fact that they move faster then most birds and elves.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
There is also the fact that I can spawn a zombie with the teeth of another fallen zombie, just one to make a full on shambling corpse that runs at crack speed. Also they are butcherable, and drop souls which is a bit much for just a tooth.
Now, when I took a look at the raws for these little speed devils, I noticed that they have a syndrome... But it wasn't done correctly so it was inactive, not sure if this was intended. Same thing with the ghouls with their conversion syndrome.
Now, after some tweaks and some changing around and testing... I made a zombie that is pretty weak alone, but you wouldn't want to use a spear or hammer for this guy, you'd kill yourself overtime in prolonged combat.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In addition, My little dungeon was attack by these little thieving monkeys and when my mephits went in to attack, they didn't use any of their syndome attacks or abilities. I thought that was broken too, but it checked out fine. When I tested them in the arena, they were working fine. Kinda weird.
Just wanted to share that little bit.
Post by: Rumrusher on February 07, 2014, 04:36:33 am
Hey Meph, I just stumbled upon two things there were rather interesting...you want to talk funny you can talk to the zombies and they will act like normal citizens if you retire the fort well normal to any necromancer.
First up, Those zombies that are spawned in the lvl 2 nerco building? Those things are lacking a lot of traits that would strike me as zombie like, plus there is the fact that they move faster then most birds and elves.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
There is also the fact that I can spawn a zombie with the teeth of another fallen zombie, just one to make a full on shambling corpse that runs at crack speed. Also they are butcherable, and drop souls which is a bit much for just a tooth.
Now, when I took a look at the raws for these little speed devils, I noticed that they have a syndrome... But it wasn't done correctly so it was inactive, not sure if this was intended. Same thing with the ghouls with their conversion syndrome.
Now, after some tweaks and some changing around and testing... I made a zombie that is pretty weak alone, but you wouldn't want to use a spear or hammer for this guy, you'd kill yourself overtime in prolonged combat.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In addition, My little dungeon was attack by these little thieving monkeys and when my mephits went in to attack, they didn't use any of their syndome attacks or abilities. I thought that was broken too, but it checked out fine. When I tested them in the arena, they were working fine. Kinda weird.
Just wanted to share that little bit.
Post by: Jaso11111 on February 07, 2014, 06:01:48 am
I guess so :PSo... this just happend:
I was building a platform over a magma lake in the first cavern when a giant mole rat got in via an opening a missed and attacked my skeli worker. In the fighting the skeli was knocked over the edge and strait into magma. Assuming him (her?/it?) dead i had my ghouls deal with the rat and continue construction. A while later i got the announcement that an other magma lake was discovered, but i hadent explore any yet. So i looked and founded that it was several z lvls below me. Knowing that skeletons are magma proof i checked and, sure enough, my skeli was not only alive but compliantly unharmed, just going down the lava like it was slide! Eventually he even found candy and soon came to rest at the bottom of the magma, still unharmed in the slightest btw. And no he isint upgraded in any way, he is just a normal bone skeleton.
Soooo yea... ???
EDIT: Now he got a mood. This sould be fun?
Why are you confused? Seems like just another day in "My Little Dungeon, Magma is Magic!"
Btw Meph, a workshop that teleports its worker a few tiles in front of it. Deep magma diving skelis! I wonder how they react with big falls...
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 07, 2014, 07:09:23 am
Post by: Meph on February 07, 2014, 07:13:23 am
Its like adding NOEAT to a hungry animal. The hunger is suspended, but as soon as the NOEAT times out, the creature is just as hungry as before.
Post by: hanspeter on February 07, 2014, 09:28:43 am
Post by: Meph on February 07, 2014, 09:32:16 am
An idea to reduce micromanagement of adding Skeletons to the military: Creating the masterwork item also reduces their Discipline skill to zero, so we can exclude already "militarized" skeletons via workshop skill ranges. It's kind of tiring to sort out ten or twenty "Shambling Skeletons" manually. Also, no more blinking units EVERYWHERE.that cant be done. Its only a 20% chance (or something along these lines) of creating a masterpiece. So if it sets their skill to 0, they couldnt always create one. And the blinking would stay, once anything gets legendary it blinks, no matter if I remove the skill afterwards.
Post by: Octobomb on February 07, 2014, 10:19:50 am
Post by: wrightly678 on February 07, 2014, 07:34:12 pm
Check out my new avatar, co,urtesy of wrightly678 and Meph! Ooh, yeah!
Hey! that's cool, I'm glad someone enjoyed that.
Post by: someone12345 on February 07, 2014, 10:08:31 pm
Post by: Carp McDwarfEater on February 08, 2014, 08:14:33 am
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 08, 2014, 10:15:44 am
Post by: hanspeter on February 08, 2014, 11:22:00 am
Post by: Meph on February 08, 2014, 01:03:58 pm
Warlocks shouldnt have kids, I cant even tell when they grow up, as they have no tags to govern that. So the default amount of time, but I dont know what that is.
Warpstone... yeah, I never really know what to use it for. Its quite rare, in stable form.
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 08, 2014, 03:03:37 pm
I never realised i could get so much poison from the Demonic Attorney. Ill need to start building that thing early on. Nether Horror poison for 1 Soul?! God damn.
Is there any reliable indoor way to farm meat for my Ghouls? None of the animals seem like they breed very fast, and i cannot make a Fishpond. So i guess fishing from cave systems is my main option?
Post by: Arcvasti on February 08, 2014, 03:10:14 pm
You could give Warlocks a renewable source of Warpstone, like trading it from Demons/Drow or transmute it from other useless ores. Then some research to unlock Warpstone-related workshops.Warlocks can't fish. Murdering siegers and animals is the only way. Or you might get meat from raiding too?
I never realised i could get so much poison from the Demonic Attorney. Ill need to start building that thing early on. Nether Horror poison for 1 Soul?! God damn.
Is there any reliable indoor way to farm meat for my Ghouls? None of the animals seem like they breed very fast, and i cannot make a Fishpond. So i guess fishing from cave systems is my main option?
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 08, 2014, 03:24:51 pm
Post by: megahelmet on February 08, 2014, 06:23:23 pm
Post by: hanspeter on February 08, 2014, 06:28:32 pm
Post by: zach123b on February 08, 2014, 06:51:00 pm
warlocks have baby:1 and child:1 so they should be adults when they turn 1... or 2? iirc i had a child skele arrive the same year it apparently was born so do they skip being a baby?
i fix the preference search thing by hitting each modifier key once, i'm guessing it's from alt tabbing and the alt modifier gets stuck
Post by: Meph on February 09, 2014, 03:34:20 am
Anyone know how to disable the dfhack dwarf preference search? It apparently is keyed to 'm'. I can't figure out how to get to the military screen. Extremely frustrated.your alt key is stuck from alt-tabbing. press alt once.
Post by: Jaso11111 on February 09, 2014, 09:09:13 am
Also can someone direct me to a good tower building strategy thread?
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 09, 2014, 09:13:05 am
If the control thing is the problem, wouldnt it be best to just remove it? Its a great feature, but if there is no fix then it kinda ruins Skeletons. Using a Warlock for a squad leader is ok, but id rather have the ability to make junk squads of skeletons to throw at invaders, whilst keeping my precious Warlocks out of combat.
Could you not remove the control feature, and instead make Skeletons weak and slow when away from a Warlock/Pylon for too long? Not sure if that is even possible.
and once again, screw Vampires. So many Ghouls/Locks have died to these stupid guys even when i have over 100 units of blood and bloodwine.
Post by: Carp McDwarfEater on February 09, 2014, 10:31:42 am
Vampires annoy me as well, but at least there are a few solutions for them, like segregating your fort or eventually curing them with the lair. IMO both of these features should have toggles.
Post by: mahrgell on February 09, 2014, 10:35:06 am
Post by: megahelmet on February 09, 2014, 10:41:44 am
Mindless dead will not attack invaders. Nor will invaders attack them. This also includes my own skeletons that get stuck outside of the fort and I lose control of. They will only go after wild animals. They won't even attack animal mounts. I had a small army of animated corpses from the necromatic circle path *through* the invading army just to kill monkeys. I suspect invaders are receiving the same syndrome buff that warlocks receive.
Cannot appoint a cryptlord. (I think this one is known).
Skeletons that are in the military, do not stay in the military. Even surrounded by pylons and warlocks, they still disappear from the cryptlord squad I stick them in. I used therapists assign unit to military function as a workaround for inability to appoint a cryptlord noble. (They pop out of the squad within 1 - 5 minutes. I never lost control of them). Interestingly enough, they tend to hold onto their equipment even though they aren't in the military. My ironbone skeleton archers, JFK and Elvis will shoot at any enemy that wanders to close despite no longer being in a squad.
I have a theory. It is only based on how I think I understand how you made all this work. I suspect it has to do with the overlapping syndrome buff that keeps them controllable. Even though they are controllable, the act up updating the state of the skeleton from when one buff wears out and a new one is applied does it. If this is the case, then I also suspect building the skeleton banner will fix it, since then there will no longer be a state change. I'm a hellava long way from testing that theory.
Torture Chamber: I've been having lots of fun using this one on the random things that invade me. A were-dwarf-gilla monster got stuck in my cage traps. I turned him into a ghoul. However, this doesn't cure the were monster curse, and he transformed and attacked later. (Not really a bug, I was just curious how they would interact). However, all my ghouls created from invaders get attacked by some members of my fort and killed. I turned a number of goblins into ghouls, and my own skeletons beat them to death. Not sure why. I'm assuming it has to do with the invader performing a hostile action while in life and thus is still viewed as hostile as a ghoul.
Fort wealth. My wealth has overflowed into the negative integers....then magically became positive normal wealth numbers later. I don't mind, except it has my fort a free for all for invasions despite being nowhere near the population requirements. I had my first invasion before I hit 20 civ members. Now I'm at 34 and I have massive 100 man armies of dwarves, drow, orcs, and goblins beating down my door at all times.
Post by: Stuebi on February 09, 2014, 11:36:42 am
Post by: Meph on February 09, 2014, 11:44:40 am
The Race is incredibly fun to play, but I also have major problems with early sieges. I was just completely annihilated by humans sieging me in the very first summer, shortly after the first migrant wave. The game before that had Dwarves appear first autumn. They destroyed me pretty quickly. If this is intentional, can someone provide some directions for what to do first? I was barely done with my first few rooms and building Workshops, and was jsut getting to Necromancy Cirlces to create more Skeletons.I noticed that. Just open the GUI, races and set their siege and trade times to late or very late, then gen a new world.
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 09, 2014, 12:27:27 pm
Ive tried fighting the sieges, but its always been suicide to take them head-on. The Dwarves will be using copper/iron level gear, along with a few steel level weapons. Even with just one or two steel weapons, they will chop up your Ghouls in no time. The only way i can imagine surviving is by making some Soul Wisps or a 1-tile wide corridor filled with atleast 10 cage traps.
Question though, if i set Goblins to "good", will they invade my fort?
Post by: dukea42 on February 09, 2014, 06:48:53 pm
I get the following output in DFHack in a red text:
...asterworkDF V4h\Dwarf Fortress\hack\scripts/eruption.lua:69: attempt to perfo
rm arithmetic on local 'ry' (a nil value)
stack traceback:
...asterworkDF V4h\Dwarf Fortress\hack\scripts/eruption.lua:69: in funct
ion 'eruption'
...asterworkDF V4h\Dwarf Fortress\hack\scripts/eruption.lua:125: in main
chunk
(...tail calls...)
Post by: Nuttycompa on February 09, 2014, 07:28:17 pm
Post by: hanspeter on February 09, 2014, 08:12:36 pm
Question: does the range of the pylons work in the z direction as well? Through walls/floor?
Regarding warpstone industry: perhaps remove the soul siphon buffs from ghouls entirely and move it to giving them buffs/mutations(?) via warpstones which, of course, can go horribly horribly wrong. Is it possible to randomly mutate a creature to get, say, an extra limb? Claws instead of hands?
Maybe that'd be a nice addition to the fleshsmith as well - tinkering with the ghouls, adding and removing appendages, sewing in metalplates etc. seems like a very warlocky thing to do.
Post by: Arcvasti on February 09, 2014, 08:32:15 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Stuebi on February 10, 2014, 01:33:12 am
I had assumed it was intentional. Ive almost always had enough time to set up walls and a bridge before a siege hits. I recommend you guys embark with some stone blocks and 4 Hourglasses, along with alteast 2 Warlocks. With one Hourglass and some blocks you can instantly set up a Soul Syphon, then butcher 3 of those minions your Warlocks bring for souls, which allows you to create 3 Phylacteries and set up an Ethereal Gate. You can then pump out an unlimited amount of blocks and build your walls fast.
Ive tried fighting the sieges, but its always been suicide to take them head-on. The Dwarves will be using copper/iron level gear, along with a few steel level weapons. Even with just one or two steel weapons, they will chop up your Ghouls in no time. The only way i can imagine surviving is by making some Soul Wisps or a 1-tile wide corridor filled with atleast 10 cage traps.
Question though, if i set Goblins to "good", will they invade my fort?
It may simply be because im still very noobish in terms of DF. I tend to play for a while and then get distracted by other things. Also, I dont like walling myself in from the get go, because it feels like cheating a bit, especially when playing a race where a substantial amount of your minions dont have to eat or drink.
Thanks for advice Meph, gonna gen me a new world and try it out this evening.
Also, one thing I wanna note. I find the Ghouls fighting Style incredibly entertaining. I browsed some combat reports while they were hunting (It gets quite boring in those initial stages, where everyone is either digging or hauling), and its glorious how they rip and tear everything apart, not to mention their incredible speed. Have yet to try out how they use Whips tough, im very curious how combat looks when you equip some of them.
Post by: dukea42 on February 10, 2014, 09:56:18 am
I don't mind the idea of ghouls or warlocks leading every squad, but they just don't seem to be available to create. Could the 4 evils be able to have 3-5 units each?
Right now my best military is the zombies. They clean the map of life well, but yet to face true invaders with those.
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 10, 2014, 03:52:39 pm
Post by: megahelmet on February 10, 2014, 07:45:29 pm
What am I doing wrong with military? All I have is Ghoul master, which I have with ghouls training lashing. I can't use the 4 evils or crypt lord and can't yet afford the rooms for the overlord. What are people doing with the skeletons that can be in the military? I'd like some to use heavy weapons like scythes and another squad for posioned arrows but even with a working crypt lord that'd just be one squad.
I don't mind the idea of ghouls or warlocks leading every squad, but they just don't seem to be available to create. Could the 4 evils be able to have 3-5 units each?
Right now my best military is the zombies. They clean the map of life well, but yet to face true invaders with those.
You have to have an overlord before you can appoint the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse. Appoint an overlord, appoint your 4 horsemen, then remove the overlord until you can afford his rooms.
Post by: kuudou on February 10, 2014, 09:28:51 pm
You know how in Vanilla DF you can zoom in on the tiles with wither square brackets "[]" or the mouse wheel?
It doesn't seem to work with Masterwork. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Post by: Arcvasti on February 10, 2014, 09:32:25 pm
Sorry for bit of an unrelated question. I tried searching the forums but didn't find anything.
You know how in Vanilla DF you can zoom in on the tiles with wither square brackets "[]" or the mouse wheel?
It doesn't seem to work with Masterwork. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
I believe that you zoom in or out with either 1 and 2 or f1 and f2. If you zoom out with rendermax enabled, the game crashes.
Post by: kuudou on February 10, 2014, 10:08:17 pm
Sorry for bit of an unrelated question. I tried searching the forums but didn't find anything.
You know how in Vanilla DF you can zoom in on the tiles with wither square brackets "[]" or the mouse wheel?
It doesn't seem to work with Masterwork. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
I believe that you zoom in or out with either 1 and 2 or f1 and f2. If you zoom out with rendermax enabled, the game crashes.
Sorry. Doesn't seem to do anything.
I tried looking in the launcher but I've been known to be quite blind to obvious things. So if anyone can point it out that'd be awesome.
On another note. I just found some platinum Greaves. The wiki doesn't seem to list Platinum in its list of materials, I have to imagine that they're better than Steel for armor, yes?
Thanks.
Post by: BlackFlyme on February 10, 2014, 10:32:10 pm
On another note. I just found some platinum Greaves. The wiki doesn't seem to list Platinum in its list of materials, I have to imagine that they're better than Steel for armor, yes?
Thanks.
Have you tried poking around the in-game options menu? You should be able to change keybindings from there. Just press the escape key, go to key bindings, go into the general sub-menu, and look for zoom in and zoom out.
As for platinum, I would say don't use it. It can be made into weapons and armour, but it is no where near steel in terms of quality. It is closer to copper, if anything.
Post by: kuudou on February 10, 2014, 10:33:57 pm
On another note. I just found some platinum Greaves. The wiki doesn't seem to list Platinum in its list of materials, I have to imagine that they're better than Steel for armor, yes?
Thanks.
Have you tried poking around the in-game options menu? You should be able to change keybindings from there. Just press the escape key, go to key bindings, go into the general sub-menu, and look for zoom in and zoom out.
As for platinum, I would say don't use it. It can be made into weapons and armour, but it is no where near steel in terms of quality. It is closer to copper, if anything.
Good to know. Thanks.
Post by: Arcvasti on February 10, 2014, 10:54:23 pm
Not really. Platinum isn't a weapon metal in Valnilla DF because its only really good for denseness and value. It makes pretty good hammers and nobles furniture, but horrible everything else. It might be worth using if its an artifact though. Also, I would recommend putting this kind of stuff in [DWARF]-Gameplay questions, rather then here.
On another note. I just found some platinum Greaves. The wiki doesn't seem to list Platinum in its list of materials, I have to imagine that they're better than Steel for armor, yes?
Thanks.
Post by: Arcvasti on February 10, 2014, 10:55:14 pm
EDIT: Ninja'dNot really. Platinum isn't a weapon metal in Valnilla DF because its only really good for denseness and value. It makes pretty good hammers and nobles furniture, but horrible everything else. It might be worth using if its an artifact though. Also, I would recommend putting this kind of stuff in [DWARF]-Gameplay questions, rather then here.
On another note. I just found some platinum Greaves. The wiki doesn't seem to list Platinum in its list of materials, I have to imagine that they're better than Steel for armor, yes?
Thanks.
Post by: kuudou on February 10, 2014, 11:21:17 pm
EDIT: Ninja'dNot really. Platinum isn't a weapon metal in Valnilla DF because its only really good for denseness and value. It makes pretty good hammers and nobles furniture, but horrible everything else. It might be worth using if its an artifact though. Also, I would recommend putting this kind of stuff in [DWARF]-Gameplay questions, rather then here.
On another note. I just found some platinum Greaves. The wiki doesn't seem to list Platinum in its list of materials, I have to imagine that they're better than Steel for armor, yes?
Thanks.
Lol it's cool. Maybe you can answer this for me:
Any chance my adventurer can make weapons/armor better than stone/bone stuff? It seems like I can smelt a bunch of bars from metal I find in the game. Not too sure what I can do with these bars.
I'm currently sitting on a stash of ~30 bifrost bars from killing a dungeon full of Frost Giants.
Post by: shadowclasper on February 10, 2014, 11:47:21 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on February 10, 2014, 11:52:34 pm
Maybe start another thread called Adventure mode discussion or something? This is a bit of a derail from talking about fort mode warlocks.EDIT: Ninja'dNot really. Platinum isn't a weapon metal in Valnilla DF because its only really good for denseness and value. It makes pretty good hammers and nobles furniture, but horrible everything else. It might be worth using if its an artifact though. Also, I would recommend putting this kind of stuff in [DWARF]-Gameplay questions, rather then here.
On another note. I just found some platinum Greaves. The wiki doesn't seem to list Platinum in its list of materials, I have to imagine that they're better than Steel for armor, yes?
Thanks.
Lol it's cool. Maybe you can answer this for me:
Any chance my adventurer can make weapons/armor better than stone/bone stuff? It seems like I can smelt a bunch of bars from metal I find in the game. Not too sure what I can do with these bars.
I'm currently sitting on a stash of ~30 bifrost bars from killing a dungeon full of Frost Giants.
Post by: megahelmet on February 11, 2014, 12:03:19 am
Earlier on, somebody suggested doing damage to skeletons instead of them turning 'opposed to life' which makes sense to me. The damage would probably be mitigated by the type of material they're built of right? So better invested in skeletons would last much longer than normal ones?
But wouldn't every time the skeletons start to take damage, wouldn't someone go try to bring them to the medical bay? This could be good or bad depending on how you look at it.
1. Good. Skeletons are automatically brought back to the fort and most likely in range of a warlock/pylon.
2. Bad. This has the potential for boat loads of rescue wounded jobs. Which could just be annoying.
Post by: kuudou on February 11, 2014, 12:08:09 am
Maybe start another thread called Adventure mode discussion or something? This is a bit of a derail from talking about fort mode warlocks.
Oh oops. I've been jumping between this thread and an adventure mode discussion thread on the main DF subsection. Got the two confused.
I'll get right on that.
Post by: shadowclasper on February 11, 2014, 04:14:07 pm
Earlier on, somebody suggested doing damage to skeletons instead of them turning 'opposed to life' which makes sense to me. The damage would probably be mitigated by the type of material they're built of right? So better invested in skeletons would last much longer than normal ones?
But wouldn't every time the skeletons start to take damage, wouldn't someone go try to bring them to the medical bay? This could be good or bad depending on how you look at it.
1. Good. Skeletons are automatically brought back to the fort and most likely in range of a warlock/pylon.
2. Bad. This has the potential for boat loads of rescue wounded jobs. Which could just be annoying.
True. But is it more or less annoying than constantly having to send them to the inscriptionist to make 10 items in order to get their legends entry back so that you can put them in your military?
Post by: Nuttycompa on February 11, 2014, 07:38:26 pm
Post by: vjmdhzgr on February 11, 2014, 08:26:36 pm
Not sure if this is a bug, but has anyone else been having issues with Slag disposal? Ive been telling my guys to dump Slag in the Slag Pit thing, but its...producing Slag Doors at an alarming rate. Im talking hundreds of Slag Doors. I did order it to make some Slag Doors a while ago, but that order has long since been completed, and ive just been setting it to repeatedly dispose of the Slag since.I just attempted to make some slag tables and the workshop is now cluttered to the point of yellow which I know is at least the third level of being cluttered and just level one of clutter is a lot.
Post by: Vherid on February 11, 2014, 09:36:49 pm
Post by: megahelmet on February 11, 2014, 11:15:01 pm
So I place a pylon on my refuse pile. The undead that gets animated instantly goes and attacks the pylon and kills it while all my units go running towards the undead to kill them. What. I tried searching around and doesn't seem like anyone has run into this, and there doesn't seem to be anything that points as to why this is in the manual.
I've been having the same trouble with the necromatic circle and torture chamber. It's not 100%. Sometimes it works fine. Sometimes, they immediately attack everything.
Post by: Meph on February 12, 2014, 02:59:08 am
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 12, 2014, 09:45:17 am
Post by: Meph on February 12, 2014, 09:55:20 am
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 12, 2014, 01:11:14 pm
Also is Dreadnought straight up better than Bloodsteel for weapons? I know it makes better armor with its 50% damage reduction.
Post by: mahrgell on February 12, 2014, 03:00:26 pm
important is that they create a masterwork...
Which no matter how many materials you give them, has the same chance... So you can't reduce that number, nope
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 12, 2014, 03:07:08 pm
Post by: mahrgell on February 12, 2014, 03:33:40 pm
Post by: Meph on February 13, 2014, 02:07:53 am
Can we get some new reactions at the Inscriptor for quick-upgrading Skeletons? As in, rather than 5 separate reactions to get a skill to legendary, have just a single reaction that uses x5 the materials and raises a skill by 15 points?I wont do such a reaction. Its easy enough to queue 5 of the normal ones to get up to legendary.
Also is Dreadnought straight up better than Bloodsteel for weapons? I know it makes better armor with its 50% damage reduction.
Dreadnought is a little bit better, and if I am not mistaken, (due to how the mechanics behind it work), a weapon would also give you a 50% damage reduction. But I am not absolutely sure.
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 13, 2014, 05:21:23 am
Post by: palu on February 13, 2014, 09:17:57 pm
Post by: Shadowics on February 14, 2014, 12:37:00 am
1) What are the undead for, besides just theme I mean? On my first experimental fort, and have about 100 "Restless Walker" Zombies and 100 animated random parts: 'Undead Mandrill Heads' and so on. And none of them do anything. The only thing the Zombies have done so far is attack my Old Corpses and Pylons occasionally. They entirely ignore Wild Animals and Invaders. I even dropped a handful of Elven ambushers into a pit full of zombies, some of the zombies getting wounded by the falling elves, and still they just ignore each other. What am I doing wrong?
I tried making an acid disperser to see if Voodoo Acid would make 'hostile' undead, but neither the voodoo nor rotting acid seemed to have any effect on the targets. Also, are these plants only farmable in evil biomes? Making them from glumprongs is a little... awkward.
2) What are ghouls for? I get the magical warlocks and the cheap, disposable skeletons; but the ghouls are what? They're fast, and good at butchery, but I can just make more skeletons and butcher shops and have them do it in parallel instead. Early on my 3 ghouls all simultaneously came down with some flesh rotting disease that has them laid up in my hospital while my warlocks experiment on them for the past few years, and I didn't miss them. Moreover, even with my skeleton militia slaying the wild animals my zombies are ignoring, I'm having a hard time gathering enough meat to keep them fed. For how much they eat, it seems like it would be 'better' to just let them stave and focus on making more skeletons instead.
As an aside, I'm fine with the distant skeletons going feral rather than becoming slow an useless as was being discussed recently, I was just hoping they would do something, rather than just standing around idle as in #1.
3) A minor quibble, but why can hourglasses only be made from rocks, when glass would seem the more logical choice?
Misc bugs:
- Under the workshops menu, the hotkey lowercase-d is on both Dyer's Shop and Stonecrafter's Shop.
- I ground limestone boulders(3) to look for base materials, and ended up with limestone blocks(1)?
- Slag Pit has "Make molten slag throne" listed twice.
- Sawblades are called "Sawblades" in some places and "Saw Blades" in others; both in the manual, and in game.
- One of the options under Demonic Attorney is "Buy 25 zombie flower for 2 souls", without a 'seeds'.
- Skeletons have a 1% exp rate on everything Warlocks don't; except Bone Carving, which is -1% for all the castes. Intentional?
I'm playing MasterworkDF V4h with no changes except to set Warlocks as the only playable civ, and the tileset to ASCII. As an aside, some of your new workshops look a little wierd, but it's entirely playable. My biggest gripe would be that warlocks look like, well, necromancers; while the useless zombies look like dwarfs. This makes sense if you're playing a dwarf civ, but less so for warlocks. As a possible feature for Masterwork; if you select only one playable civ, could the characters get shuffled around to use the standard 'civ member' character for that race?
Overall though, thanks for making this; it was an interesting diversion.
Post by: Splint on February 14, 2014, 01:08:49 am
As to the hourglasses out of rock it's a matter of economics. Rock will probably be the one thing the place has in over abundance besides bones and meat. Glass requires either fuel or magma and unless one embarks on a volcano, other things take a priority to making fuel, finding magma, and collecting sand until a much longer ways in.
Post by: Shadowics on February 14, 2014, 01:38:24 am
It didn't seem, to me at least, that a lot of phylacteries were necessary; only to keep workshops built with souls from deconstructing, other souls could be used as they were 'collected'. Well, apart from the high-level items from the Demonic Attorney at least. But, maybe I'm missing something important.
Post by: Splint on February 14, 2014, 01:51:58 am
I thought both hunting and fishing were disabled for warlock dungeons? And, shouldn't 'Opposed to Life' undead take care of hostile, living, wildlife for you? Hypothetically, at least?
It didn't seem, to me at least, that a lot of phylacteries were necessary; only to keep workshops built with souls from deconstructing, other souls could be used as they were 'collected'. Well, apart from the high-level items from the Demonic Attorney at least. But, maybe I'm missing something important.
Those labors can be manually assigned but by "hunter" I meant "Ordered to kill shit via squad commands."
As far as storage goes early on you may not have the time or workers to make use of the souls in a timely manner so storing them is always a good idea, as well as for use in ceremonies and such down the line, to save you from having to wait for an ambush or something to replenish the stock. I personally get really frustrated when I'm in the middle of putting some bone-bags together and the souls they were gonna use wither away mid-assembly.
Post by: Meph on February 14, 2014, 04:41:43 am
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 14, 2014, 05:42:40 am
The Therapist ignores the enabled jobs in the entity file. So you cant assign fishing, but you can assign fishing in the therapist... I might as well enable it again, because its so easy to forget and accidently cheat ;)
Ha! I had no idea about this. Didnt realise i was cheating. I guess then Skeletons arnt meant to be haulers either?
Fishing is be important. Shells can be hard to come by otherwise, leading to minions going crazy due to lack of materials for their moods.
Post by: Nuttycompa on February 14, 2014, 08:46:39 am
I like the idea of this mod, but there's a few things I don't quite 'get':I have this problem too. What I notice is my warlock don't seem to have any problem with zombie until they are draft into overlord squard, whenever I active their squrd my warlock will try to kill any zombie that stand in their way.
1) What are the undead for, besides just theme I mean? On my first experimental fort, and have about 100 "Restless Walker" Zombies and 100 animated random parts: 'Undead Mandrill Heads' and so on. And none of them do anything. The only thing the Zombies have done so far is attack my Old Corpses and Pylons occasionally. They entirely ignore Wild Animals and Invaders. I even dropped a handful of Elven ambushers into a pit full of zombies, some of the zombies getting wounded by the falling elves, and still they just ignore each other.
I remember that in test ver. 0 2-0.3 the zombie and resurrect body used to be merciless killing machine that will kill any wild life that dare enter your map, they even break seige for you if you have enough of them 8)
Post by: Meph on February 14, 2014, 09:00:56 am
Post by: DoX on February 14, 2014, 11:22:54 am
Is it at all possible to create new military squads? With the breaking bugs when it comes to Skeletons leaving their squads every 3 months, the crypt lord noble bug, and every other squad (save the ghouls) requiring my precious, precious warlocks, it's more and more difficult to utilize military strategy against invaders.
I can't have more than one squad of skeleton archers, so towers become less useful. I can't have more than one ghoul squad, so hunting becomes challenging without being able to ambush. Yes, I can select units within squads individually, but it's really annoying micromanagement when all I want is a 50/50 split.
You've put a ton of work in, and I'm loving Warlock fortress, but any word on the next build to deal with the nobles and souls bugs?
Oh, one last note. We can make arrows, poison arrows, and bows come in from invaders anyway, so: Why can't we make bows?
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 14, 2014, 12:38:28 pm
Also what do you mean unable to make bows? Am i misunderstanding something? I was able to make them just fine in the Bowyer.
Despite the issues, i must say that Warlock is very fun to play. Dealing with a smaller fort, no worries of migrants, but other concerns with your Warlocks being very important. Its really interesting. Its a shame that you modders are limited in your abilities to add and change things.
Post by: choppy on February 14, 2014, 12:42:34 pm
Post by: mahrgell on February 14, 2014, 12:56:34 pm
Do that need to be in a nearby stockpile, or just nearby?
And do they need to be a corpse or
And my last question is,
Post by: choppy on February 14, 2014, 01:04:29 pm
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 14, 2014, 01:20:07 pm
As for more Warlocks, you only get two migration waves, but there is a method ive yet to try. The Emissary has a reaction called "Call the walking dead". The manual says this has a chance to call migrants, but will probably fail. No idea what the % chance is. Here is the RAW though...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Hopefully it works. Otherwise my current fort will be stuck with only two Warlocks.
EDIT: Not sure if you want to consider this a bug or an exploit. But i figured id mention it. The Ethereal Blocks you can produce for free, they can be used in the Stonecrafter to make... a lot of stuff. Ive been using it to mass-produce free cages and bins.
Post by: Carp McDwarfEater on February 14, 2014, 03:31:30 pm
And Meph, you haven't responded to the talk about the skeletons' problems. Do you plan to fix the bug, or alter the mechanics to where they weaken away from pylons, or what? As it is, the malfunctioning pylons make warlocks my least favorite race to play since they just require so much more micromanagement. You have to create more skeletons, do the engraving thing to make them work, throw pylons around every corridor, and constantly reassign skeletons to their squad.
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 14, 2014, 04:38:08 pm
Post by: Meph on February 14, 2014, 05:08:17 pm
Quote
And Meph, you haven't responded to the talk about the skeletons' problems. Do you plan to fix the bug, or alter the mechanics to where they weaken away from pylons, or what? As it is, the malfunctioning pylons make warlocks my least favorite race to play since they just require so much more micromanagement. You have to create more skeletons, do the engraving thing to make them work, throw pylons around every corridor, and constantly reassign skeletons to their squad.Then its working as intended. There is no bug. Skeletons need a Warlock or Pylon to be controled, period. When you say that you need to reassign them to the squad: Put a Warlock in it. If you say that you need too many pylons: Make large, open areas, since it works line-of-sight. If you dont like the engraving thing, use unskilled labor, or spawn more ghouls from invaders, prisoners or the graveyard.
There are always options. You have to adapt to the features.
Anyone know how to "corrupt an invader" to turn them into a Ghoul at the Torture Chamber? I have a stockpile right next to the building with caged invaders in it and i have a garbage stockpile right next to the center of the workshop tile with a caged invader in there too. Nothing happens after i run the reaction though. What am i doing wrong?It should work the way you describe it. I know several people have converted invaders in reports I got.
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 14, 2014, 05:35:25 pm
This is how i have it set up. The Torture Chamber is the top-right building. I had a garbage dump area right next to the worker, but it didnt really do anything. I assumed that the invader had to be caught in that smoke to transform into a Ghoul. Is there a way to tell if the reaction worked? Do they just break out of the cage, or appear on Therapist?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
EDIT: It seems...to be working, kinda. Ive been getting messages like "X has been missing for a week". The names are the same as the guys i was using for the invader corrupting. So i tried again, and this time removed them from the cages, but they seemed to be hostile against my fort. Is that how its supposed to work?
Post by: Carp McDwarfEater on February 14, 2014, 06:23:21 pm
Quote
Then its working as intended. There is no bug. Skeletons need a Warlock or Pylon to be controled, period. When you say that you need to reassign them to the squad: Put a Warlock in it. If you say that you need too many pylons: Make large, open areas, since it works line-of-sight. If you dont like the engraving thing, use unskilled labor, or spawn more ghouls from invaders, prisoners or the graveyard.
There are always options. You have to adapt to the features.
How exactly do the skeletons check for nearby pylons or warlocks? I was under the impression that they were fine going a few weeks without a pylon, but what happened several times is that a skeleton goes into the main dining hall that always has one or two idle warlocks. I had a nothing but a single door between a stockpile for bones and that dining hall, and yet I constantly had skeletons going opposed to life in there. This would make sense if there's just a check every now and then for a nearby pylon and if the skeleton fails that check they go opposed to life. Otherwise, I don't understand why they go opposed to life when they only step into that room for a second to grab a bone.
Post by: choppy on February 14, 2014, 07:41:29 pm
One thing that would be nice say mid-late game, would be if you could take a invader and around ten souls, and then create a warlock(with just the default skills and only say a 5-10 percent chance[the invader would die no matter what]).
The other idea I had for late game would be to add the zombie juju, I.E. a stronger, tougher, and faster zombie with a few low level death spells. I would say it would take books, gem dust, plant dust, a couple of souls, and a corpse.
Plus as for the skeletons I have no problems with them. Then again I am playing on a 2x2 map.
Edit: would it be possible for warlocks on death to drop a soul gem, that you could use to revive them?
Post by: DoX on February 14, 2014, 11:51:48 pm
QuoteAnd Meph, you haven't responded to the talk about the skeletons' problems. Do you plan to fix the bug, or alter the mechanics to where they weaken away from pylons, or what? As it is, the malfunctioning pylons make warlocks my least favorite race to play since they just require so much more micromanagement. You have to create more skeletons, do the engraving thing to make them work, throw pylons around every corridor, and constantly reassign skeletons to their squad.Then its working as intended. There is no bug. Skeletons need a Warlock or Pylon to be controled, period. When you say that you need to reassign them to the squad: Put a Warlock in it. If you say that you need too many pylons: Make large, open areas, since it works line-of-sight. If you dont like the engraving thing, use unskilled labor, or spawn more ghouls from invaders, prisoners or the graveyard.
There are always options. You have to adapt to the features.Anyone know how to "corrupt an invader" to turn them into a Ghoul at the Torture Chamber? I have a stockpile right next to the building with caged invaders in it and i have a garbage stockpile right next to the center of the workshop tile with a caged invader in there too. Nothing happens after i run the reaction though. What am i doing wrong?It should work the way you describe it. I know several people have converted invaders in reports I got.
Having a warlock as your Crypt Lord solves that, though it makes a skeleton-only squad impossible, and when you already have (what is essentially) only three squads, that's a high demand.
It also does not solve the problem. Meph Skeletons disappear from squads even if they're training, stationed on a pylon, or constantly in the visual range of a warlock. It seems to happen every time they do their opposed to life check, not when they actually go opposed to life. So every three months (?) they leave the squad.
Edit: Actually, as it is, Skeletons can't be nobles at all. I'm fine with that, but squads need to be fixed.
Oh, and I'm not sure what the method is, but how do you get Ghouls available for military service? Once I get them from the graveyard, there's like a 1/10 chance they're eligible for military in the first few months of butchering and such.
Post by: Shadowics on February 15, 2014, 10:26:16 pm
Unfortunately, their happiness was quickly followed by tragedy, as one of their skeletal servants collapsed into a pile of bones.
(http://i.imgur.com/sMN6fjX.png)
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 16, 2014, 03:12:36 am
Meph's been busy, so I'll see if I can make a patch in the meantime.
Post by: Dwarf-Zero on February 16, 2014, 10:50:59 am
The Warlocks are extremly well done. Fun to play and stylish.
2 things did not work.
- A ghoul and vampire corpse were resurected by a monolith.They got the status friendly and attacked the monolith. Resulting in aggressive bodyparts which are always resurected and following the monolith and pushing it around on the map.
- When zombies are made with the necro shrine, not a corpse is used like written but a stack of bones. So you get a walker zombie for 2 bones for example. And you can kill and butcher them getting a soul and other materials which is a expoit for itself.
Post by: Meph on February 16, 2014, 11:11:15 am
Warmist did post another version of his spawnunit again, so it might be possible to have spawned ghouls and skeletons join the military directly.
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 17, 2014, 08:45:09 pm
Post by: Meph on February 18, 2014, 05:28:31 am
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 18, 2014, 06:48:43 am
I love those suits of armor. They are pretty badass. I made a Dreadnought one, and it was...spraying acid(?) at stuff with each attack. Until it got beheaded to a Dwarven Axelord.
By the way, are you aware of the problems with souls from invaders? They cannot be stored in Hourglasses, but they can be used raw. They all have different names like "Human Soul" or "Goblin Soul" etc. Even some named souls from named mobs.
Post by: Splint on February 18, 2014, 06:51:04 am
Post by: DoX on February 18, 2014, 06:30:07 pm
Also buying demons. Demons are nice.
Post by: Meph on February 18, 2014, 06:32:22 pm
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 18, 2014, 06:50:24 pm
The invader souls dealio has been addressed, it's a result of the new orc fortress changes. I bugged Meph about it enough. Also, them souls are also tasty treats for skeleton engraving, so save your dwarf/elf/human/gnome/more dwarf butchering for when you're mass upgrading the local talent.
Also buying demons. Demons are nice.
Yeah this is what ive been doing so far. Mass butchering invaders then quickly using up the raw souls whilst forbidding my stored ones. Also helps to have a dedicated butcher workshop and stockpile for corpses, along with a second for the annoying partial limbs.
Demons are kinda nice. So far ive only really bothered with the vermin hunters and Cerberus. However the latter kinda sucks. It breathes fire, which is cool, but mine tend to die very easily without the fire doing much. I feel like its best to save up for a Cinder/Shadow beast, or BALROG!
Post by: Szarrukin on February 19, 2014, 01:19:35 pm
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 19, 2014, 01:34:00 pm
Post by: Szarrukin on February 19, 2014, 01:35:34 pm
Another question: is there any way to melt ice into water? I could swear that I saw reaction like that in one of workshops, but I cannot recall which workshop was that....
Post by: Arcvasti on February 19, 2014, 02:25:59 pm
It helped, thanks!
Another question: is there any way to melt ice into water? I could swear that I saw reaction like that in one of workshops, but I cannot recall which workshop was that....
I've never had need of that one. If you need the water to treat an injured warlock, there might be some sort of healing reaction in the morgue. If its for drinking, then build a blood brewery and make blood and then bloodwine. Or you can always breach the caverns for water. I think even Bone-armored ghouls will still trounce most 1st level caverns wildlife since the relocation of bronze statues. I'm not really sure if warlocks have a melt ice reaction. Its not in all the races, I know that much.
Post by: Szarrukin on February 19, 2014, 04:05:14 pm
Post by: Splint on February 19, 2014, 04:07:03 pm
I know that inscriptor has a special reaction for "homemade" skeletons to made them available, but what about ghouls? is there any way to use them in military?
Butcher duty to legendary is my guess, but I'm sure this will be addressed in a patch or something before Meph goes on his trip.
Post by: Szarrukin on February 19, 2014, 04:59:54 pm
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 19, 2014, 05:08:42 pm
Post by: Szarrukin on February 19, 2014, 05:28:57 pm
How did you even make a new Ghoul?Graveyard
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 19, 2014, 05:44:15 pm
Post by: Szarrukin on February 19, 2014, 05:47:32 pm
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 19, 2014, 06:02:43 pm
Post by: dshannon on February 19, 2014, 07:27:50 pm
First was that the local dungeon populous considers the crushing of grudges like they've lost a loved one. (6 cases of at least -20 unhappiness)
so you can't use that method at all.
Second arose when using the graveyard ghoul method. (ofc naked, but I saw that as an awesome extra challenge) The problem is that is when you have the ghoul master (couldn't be the graveyard ghoul, due to previously mentioned bug of him not going into military service), steward (and overlord? I didn't confirm it) set and they all die a tragic death without there being a valid successor, It bugs out the nobles screen permanently, all options vanish and as such you also can't set up any sort of military as those at default require even the most basic noble.
The third, not neccessarily a vanilla bug, was that the graveyard ghoul I got had all his exp gains bugged including ones he should by default get. Yes I did through my cheaty methods add a number off skill he shouldn't have had.
There is one other method I haven't tried for my challenge and that is the necromantic altar approach. but...yeah, that's going to need someone (a warlock?) alive by default.....isn't it?
Post by: dukea42 on February 19, 2014, 10:28:32 pm
First, I made warlocks able to be the crypt lords. Allows them thematically be "lord" of the dead and lead mindless skeletons that really should not be leading anything. This also prevents the roll of the dice that I'll have skeletons capable of being the crypt lord noble. Just wish I new how to force the squad embers to skeletons only, buts that's how I play it.
Second I made the Warlock staff shoot "magic" arrows as a ranged weapon. It's equivalent to a composite bow. The arrows now mean I have my crypt lord warlock use the same ammo as the skeletons with bows so I can have one clear range squad play with poisons and eventually spells, and then the ghoul master whipping the ground troops in training and action.
Third is that I upped the range of the slag bullet spell, and because that makes them hit with less accuracy, I upped the correlate to try to match the original damage/hit rate.
I don't know if I'm turning the race up-side down, but I felt like it at least allowed me to leverage some features of the race (range weapons and their poisons, the actual crypt lord squad) and be more combative earlier to match the higher ambushes and sieges.
Post by: Meph on February 20, 2014, 06:47:52 am
Post by: megahelmet on February 20, 2014, 11:16:19 am
Post by: Meph on February 20, 2014, 11:17:31 am
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 20, 2014, 11:29:08 am
Is rotting acid supposed to be so...lame? I feel like filling a weapon trap with 10 weapons would be infinitely more efficient, and much less hassle considering you need to keep producing acid to refill the traps.
Post by: Meph on February 20, 2014, 11:41:51 am
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 20, 2014, 11:46:54 am
Post by: dukea42 on February 20, 2014, 02:35:19 pm
What are the requirements for the slade bullet spell? My overlord has a bone staff, but will not ever cast. He just pummels everything to death. Does he require a quiver as well?
Shots don't appear in the reports unless they hit or atleast close enough to warrant. Similar with range arrows and bolts. I just don't know what governs accuracy here. Is it a skill or a spell setting?
Post by: Meph on February 20, 2014, 04:10:52 pm
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on February 20, 2014, 04:31:50 pm
Its THROWING and another one, but I would have to look it up. Maybe ranged-combat, or misc object user, not sure.
THROW and RANGED_COMBAT for interaction missile accuracy
Post by: megahelmet on February 21, 2014, 01:08:39 pm
If I put coffins around the altar, will warlocks resurrect from those? (something I'm considering trying for the next fort)
Ghouls. Thematically, I like the rotting. In practice, I'm in favor of removing it as any ghoul that gets a scratch will end up in the hospital and never ever leave due to the need remove all the rotting flesh. I locked the doors and let them all starve to death, since I couldn't get them to leave, even after removing the hospital and dismantling the tables they were on. He had a broken finger.
Pylons. Once set on fire, they will never stop burning if the damage isn't fatal.
Post by: Meph on February 21, 2014, 01:16:49 pm
Ghoul rotting can easily be removed, I wasnt aware that they get stuck in hospital because of that.
Pylons on fire can stay, its awesome.
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 21, 2014, 01:47:49 pm
Pylons on fire can stay, its awesome.
You mean "Its a feature"?
Post by: Meph on February 21, 2014, 02:00:07 pm
Post by: megahelmet on February 21, 2014, 03:24:06 pm
Pylons on fire can stay, its awesome.
This make me laugh. I'm sigging it.
Post by: Blazebase on February 21, 2014, 04:55:48 pm
The undead and those who posses the [OPPOSED_TO_LIFE] tag are very buggy and twitchy for some apparent reason....
And when I say buggy and twitchy, I mean that these zombies and undead are very selective about who they kill and or attempt to anyways.
I enabled [EXTRAVISION] on my zombies from the level 2 nerco. alter, so they will bumrush some of the living from a long distance, even without direct vision, this is intended.
What is NOT intended is when they are in the middle of chasing down a pack of 10 dingos, they catch about 4 of them, and then just stop.
They just stood there, derping around like they had nothing better to do after slaughtering a small portion of the dingos!
Now I thought this was just an isolated problem due to my tweaking, so i rearranged the raws, removed and added a few tags.... No change.
At this point I was convinced I thoroughly messed up this unit due to my constant editing. I was wrong.
I embarked in an evil region with my warlocks and the first units I see are a pack of living river otters and asp and a pack of wild undead pit vipers.
I said to myself "Oh my, these snakes are going to do my dirty work!" Well that was a quarter of the way true. They brutalized about 3 out of the 4 asp, and then... it happened.
They suddenly didn't want to attack any of the living otters, or kill of that last asp that crossed the river!
To make matters worse, they slithered right past the otters. I mean like they were all in the face, and just kept trucking off.
I fumbled for answers on why this could be happening.... then it dawned on me.
The gnomes were integrated with the patch I had, so I suspected that the gnomes many interactions with the animals may be the cause for this.... problem.
What is one to do?
Post by: Meph on February 21, 2014, 05:09:28 pm
Post by: megahelmet on February 21, 2014, 05:19:30 pm
I fumbled for answers on why this could be happening.... then it dawned on me.
The gnomes were integrated with the patch I had, so I suspected that the gnomes many interactions with the animals may be the cause for this.... problem.
What is one to do?
I've had the same problems. Anything with 'opposed to life' tag has completely ignored anything living from a civilization. Armies also completely ignore them as well. Extremely rare, the undead will attack wildlife that wanders on the map. All mindless undead are fairly useless right now. I embarked on a dark temple and had over 400 native undead simply walk off the map, ignoring everything.
They were pretty damn lethal and effective before the gnomes went in. So I agree that somewhere in there is the problem.
Edit: Would simply deleting all the gnome specific raws work to 'decouple' it from the rest of the game? Thoughts?
Post by: Blazebase on February 21, 2014, 06:18:46 pm
Quote
Would simply deleting all the gnome specific raws work to 'decouple' it from the rest of the game? Thoughts?
I remember in previous versions of warlocks, this wasn't a problem when the gnome patch wasn't present.
Maybe they should be separated again so that it could revert the undead to their normal state, then when all the kinks are worked out in the gnomes with warlocks, it can be safely reintegrated.
Edit: Also on a side note, I've been running into some trouble farming and planting evil crops such as bone bush, lichfinger, etc.
What kind of environment do I embark at in order to plant them?
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 21, 2014, 06:32:34 pm
Post by: Nuttycompa on February 22, 2014, 08:13:22 am
QuoteWould simply deleting all the gnome specific raws work to 'decouple' it from the rest of the game? Thoughts?
I remember in previous versions of warlocks, this wasn't a problem when the gnome patch wasn't present.
Maybe they should be separated again so that it could revert the undead to their normal state, then when all the kinks are worked out in the gnomes with warlocks, it can be safely reintegrated.
I did some investigation about this "Curse of DERP undead" today, here is what I find so far.
1.Gnome? : I try delete everything about them file by file. It Doesn't fix it, and also corrupt my save file :P
2.I embark on many necro tower to observe the undead in it nature habitat :
I notice that in the very short moment after you start the undead still behave like good old undead, run out of the tower, chase after wildlife and beat the *** out of it and such. But suddenly they will enter their "Derp State" stp doing everything and just stand there.
So my conclusion is there must be "background reaction" that start a moment after you embark.
3.I download every test version to find the root of this curse :
I find that the problem start at V04 which Pylon system is intregate. With my 0% modder skill, I think this is the problem so I try to delete every reaction that relate to Remove oppose to life thing.
This Doesn't fix it
4. I try to replace the raw file of the current version with the V03 one by one:
Replace "creature_warlock_civ" file with the version03 one, this FIX IT!!!!!!
I try embark on the necro tower of 2 different world, and the undead is chasing and killing everything they find :)
So the problem is something in the "creature_warlock_civ" file that has been add in V04.
Hope this help you, Meph (But you may already know it and what I do today is the most pointless thing in warlock history :P)
PS. This is the first time in my DF career that I look in to the raw file. What I realize is there is so much work you put into this mod Meph, I can't find the word to thank you enough for what you do for other people for free. :)
Post by: IndigoFenix on February 22, 2014, 12:29:48 pm
Post by: palu on February 22, 2014, 02:09:51 pm
Post by: megahelmet on February 22, 2014, 02:23:20 pm
4. I try to replace the raw file of the current version with the V03 one by one:
Replace "creature_warlock_civ" file with the version03 one, this FIX IT!!!!!!
I try embark on the necro tower of 2 different world, and the undead is chasing and killing everything they find :)
So the problem is something in the "creature_warlock_civ" file that has been add in V04.
I don't have any modding skill, but I can compare things. I poured over the two civ files and the real major difference is the "remove opposed to life" interaction. It is not present in v03. I theorize that there is something about that interaction that is affecting regular undead AI.
Edit: The changes suggested by IndigoFenix http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133174.msg5014423#msg5014423 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133174.msg5014423#msg5014423) might also fix the AI issue as well as the squads one. I'm going to play around with it, as I think I know what to do with the changes. Sorta. I'ma risk it.
Post by: Meph on February 22, 2014, 03:54:56 pm
Post by: megahelmet on February 22, 2014, 04:08:52 pm
I think its because warlocks not only remove opposed to life from the skeleton workers, but also other undead wildlife, which then is undead wildlife, instaed of opposed to life. That might be the cause.
That would explain it.
I made the changes that IndigoFenix mentioned. It does fix the squads. I went an entire year and not a single skeleton left the service. Restless Walkers are still farily selective on what they want to attack, but they will do it. (No ambushes to test though, just wildlife). Regular undead still do nothing never attacking or being attacked--or even moving around really.
Also, there is no option in the boneforge to make bone shields. I just noticed that.
Post by: Nuttycompa on February 22, 2014, 10:37:40 pm
THIS is the cause of derp undead
in "creature_warlock_civ"
[CAN_DO_INTERACTION:MAKE_VAMPIRE]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:A:50]
[CDI:FREE_ACTION]
Remove it and BAM I get my good old
PS. I use this website to compare the raws : http://www.diffnow.com/ (this is real life-saving :D)
Post by: DuncanFrost on February 23, 2014, 10:25:00 am
Also are centaurs meant to count as full megabeasts? I've had nearly a dozen now and they haven't been that much of a problem to deal with. (Although that might just be because my brawlers are all legendary from beating up an unconscious bull moose for a full season)
Post by: megahelmet on February 23, 2014, 02:22:08 pm
I think I did it....I did it?!?......OMFG I FINALLY DID IT!!!!
THIS is the cause of derp undead
in "creature_warlock_civ"
[CAN_DO_INTERACTION:MAKE_VAMPIRE]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:A:50]
[CDI:FREE_ACTION]
Remove it and BAM I get my good oldrestless murder machineundead back. 8)
PS. I use this website to compare the raws : http://www.diffnow.com/ (this is real life-saving :D)
Amazing! I shall name a ghoul after you! I wonder what this interaction was for anyway?
Post by: Meph on February 23, 2014, 03:10:33 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on February 23, 2014, 09:52:35 pm
Spoiler: Overly long story of aforementioned nastiness (click to show/hide)
TL;DR: Ghouls natural speed and high lasher learn-rate might make them a tad overpowered.
Post by: kamikazi1231 on February 23, 2014, 10:08:49 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on February 23, 2014, 10:59:39 pm
Haven't whips and such always been OP? I've heard stories of whips crushing the skulls of opponents in one go wearing adamantine helmets with steel mail and leather hoods over the top. The tip accelerates insanely fast. In fact from hearing these previous rumors I will purposefully avoid fighting whip wielding enemies and let the traps take care of them.Thats not AS true since in masterwork there is an outer brain which eliminates a lot of the one-hit headshots from blunt weapons. Plus the bone weapons were light enough that they didn't get nearly as much force as a silver or copper weapon. They often glanced off or scored bruises or minor cuts as opposed to my experiences with chipping bone every strike with copper whips in adv mode. And they were against goblin with iron whips of their own. The OPness of whips is only a part of the ridiculousness of ghoul militia. But I'd say that having the only skill your early militia can learn be one of the more powerful weapon types might not be the best idea. I'd even pit properly armored and armed ghouls against ninja drow and demons.
Post by: Gamerlord on February 23, 2014, 11:35:15 pm
Post by: dukea42 on February 23, 2014, 11:40:44 pm
The tower I have is doing ok despite the few needed tweaks to control and undead's opposed to life. I have yet to successfully handle a siege with skeleton melee (still had dwarves too soon even after tweaks), these posts came up after I raised all undead on the map and wondered why nothing happened.
I also am discovering that I am slowly drowning in tallow. Food really hasn't been too much of a problem and with the demand for blood, tallow biscuits is all they eat anyway. Should there be a production chain to turn tallow to oil for leather, maybe also fire and acid arrows from the orcs for the blight fletcher, and a bio-fuel coke? Otherwise I have no need to make many candles.
Post by: Gamerlord on February 23, 2014, 11:56:31 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on February 24, 2014, 12:16:25 am
Dwarves are total dicks in Warlock mode.Dwarves are just total dicks in general.
Post by: Gamerlord on February 24, 2014, 01:17:01 am
Yeah but they're less dickish in Orc mode. Welded mithril daikatanas have that effect on dwarves. Warlocks only have their magic to use and that takes AGES to get around to working on. So most of my souls are now spent on spawning demons to give me even a slight chance at survival.Dwarves are total dicks in Warlock mode.Dwarves are just total dicks in general.
Post by: Nuttycompa on February 24, 2014, 01:37:45 am
it makes pets immune to undeads. Remove it, and the undeads will attacks pylons, monoliths, soul wisps and everything else you have. Its just the targeting that botched, it seems the warlocks also made wildlife and invaders "friendly" to undeads.You win some you lose some, I think :P
Is it posible to give the pet self target reaction instead?
Post by: Hefateus on February 24, 2014, 02:13:57 am
Post by: Gamerlord on February 24, 2014, 04:26:20 am
EDIT: For the record, do not use the Necromantic Circle's raise undead thing on building destroyers or Ghouls. The first start randomly smashing things and for some reason the second went psycho and had to be put down.
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 24, 2014, 10:03:29 am
Or if you want to be super cheap use cage traps and bait mobs in with Soul Wisps. Then you can pit the invaders at your leisure and butcher em nice and slowly as you need food. Invaders do not starve, so think of your animal stockpile and a storage zone for non-perishables.
Post by: palu on February 24, 2014, 01:24:24 pm
Edit: In gm-editor it says he does have a mount. Perhaps his mount is stealthed?
Post by: hiphop38 on February 24, 2014, 04:16:43 pm
Like they are missing limbs and are incapacitated, do I heal them standard or is there a reaction to repair them? (Which one would think there should be...)
Post by: choppy on February 24, 2014, 04:32:26 pm
Post by: hiphop38 on February 24, 2014, 04:59:20 pm
Post by: hiphop38 on February 24, 2014, 05:36:03 pm
Post by: Dazbuzz on February 24, 2014, 06:13:09 pm
Post by: Jaso11111 on February 27, 2014, 09:11:52 am
EDIT: Or at least give us a way to fix the "friendly" undead issue.
Post by: Gamerlord on February 27, 2014, 09:50:41 am
Post by: Nuttycompa on February 27, 2014, 11:04:16 am
I think I did it....I did it?!?......OMFG I FINALLY DID IT!!!!
THIS is the cause of derp undead
in "creature_warlock_civ"
[CAN_DO_INTERACTION:MAKE_VAMPIRE]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:A:50]
[CDI:FREE_ACTION]
Remove it and BAM I get my good oldrestless murder machineundead back. 8)
PS. I use this website to compare the raws : http://www.diffnow.com/ (this is real life-saving :D)
I already fix the undead. With a downside of them hostile to your pet and pylon as well, well seem like you can't win it all :P
Post by: Jaso11111 on February 27, 2014, 12:06:51 pm
Well them been hostile to my "pets" is a bit of big downside.I think I did it....I did it?!?......OMFG I FINALLY DID IT!!!!
THIS is the cause of derp undead
in "creature_warlock_civ"
[CAN_DO_INTERACTION:MAKE_VAMPIRE]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:A:50]
[CDI:FREE_ACTION]
Remove it and BAM I get my good oldrestless murder machineundead back. 8)
PS. I use this website to compare the raws : http://www.diffnow.com/ (this is real life-saving :D)
I already fix the undead. With a downside of them hostile to your pet and pylon as well, well seem like you can't win it all :P
Post by: hiphop38 on February 27, 2014, 04:51:54 pm
Post by: Dwarf-Zero on February 27, 2014, 05:13:14 pm
- minions are sometimes butcher able and sometimes not. Is it a feature ? how does it work ?
- ghoul butchers are trying to butcher partial skeletons again and again.
- the therapist does not show the atribute upgrades by the soul siphon of Ghouls and Warlocks, but the upgrades seem to work ingame.
- a ghoul has become a "lasher cryptlord" during training. This is a bit confusing as cryptlord is a noble typename.
- a old corpse from the graveyard gave 45 bones after butchering. not sure but it seems to be too much.
- hornet workers/drownes(strong, quite unreachable flyers) are there all the time in 3 fortresses in a row. Is this random or made this way for balance reasons ?
@Hiphop38: the metalsmith forge and crafter has bonesaw.
Post by: Arcvasti on February 27, 2014, 05:46:00 pm
maybe nothing new i cannot bother read the hole tread.1- Minions have to be butchered manually. You need to select them with "v" and then mark them for slaughter. They don't show up on the animals screen because of a kink in the script which summons them.
1 minions are sometimes butcher able and sometimes not. Is it a feature ? how does it work ?
2 ghoul butchers are trying to butcher partial skeletons again and again.
3 the therapist does not show the atribute upgrades by the soul siphon of Ghouls and Warlocks, but the upgrades seem to work ingame.
4 a ghoul has become a "lasher cryptlord" during training. This is a bit confusing as cryptlord is a noble typename.
5 a old corpse from the graveyard gave 45 bones after butchering. not sure but it seems to be too much.
6 hornet workers/drownes(strong, quite unreachable flyers) are there all the time in 3 fortresses in a row. Is this random or made this way for balance reasons ?
2- That's been reported quite a lot. Hopefully will be fixed in the next version. Just forbid them for now.
3- I think that's because the attribute gain is caused by a syndrome and not direct increase of stats? I don't use therapist that much.
4- Haven't noticed this as I give soldiers custom profession titles.
5- Thats pretty balanced as even a legendary necromancer can't produce them with any consistency since the reaction doesn't work on repeat. Plus its a ridiculously low chance ~6% to get one. Considering how reliant Warlocks are on bones and the fact that they can't farm domestic animals means that the old corpses are a nice safe choice for bones when you're under siege. I'd say that 45 bones is fine.
6- I've lost A LOT of forts to those, forest spiders and dragon raptors before they were removed. I normally just slayrace them if they appear in the first year. I don't think of it as being cheaty because those things are pretty over-powered if they strike early. Once you have a door and a roof, you're usually fine.
Post by: Splint on February 27, 2014, 05:54:21 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on February 27, 2014, 06:02:11 pm
Except undead giant hornets who make no fuss amongst your workers and casually trash everything that isn't a proper construction without you noticing.Oh, didn't know they were building destroyer level 2. I've seen them smash doors, but those were made of wood. That complicates matters
Finally got into the warlock magic system. Trying to teach everyone the fireball spell so I can have magic artillery. So far its just the herbalist who knows it and that's it. Tried to teach fireball to the Overlord, but that failed for some reason. The portals aren't working and examination of the combat log tell me that when I had my sorcerer try to teleport all nearby units from red to blue that he was teleporting them from blue to red. Either the reactions are mixed up or the messages are. There's also an rather hefty DFhack errorlog that says something about portals.lua not being found or not working. Is there any way to print out or copy the DFhack errorlog? Also, the torture chamber doesn't usually do more then bruise my victims. They still drop info though. The execution chamber makes them explode in a rather satisfying matter though.
Post by: Splint on February 27, 2014, 06:15:53 pm
Except undead giant hornets who make no fuss amongst your workers and casually trash everything that isn't a proper construction without you noticing.Oh, didn't know they were building destroyer level 2. I've seen them smash doors, but those were made of wood. That complicates matters
I've had them fly in, trash several graveyards in my walled up topside area, then proceed to break the hatches down (made of diorite,) wreck the workshops (also made from diorite, scattering bones/hourglasses everywhere,) and then fly back and forth as if they had a brain fart and keep forgetting what else they wanna wreck.
Tis indeed just a slight inconvenience, as a group of about 6-8 ghousl without weapons can rip them to pieces quite handily. Bit harder to make them stay down though in resurrecting biomes.
- a ghoul has become a "lasher cryptlord" during training. This is a bit confusing as cryptlord is a noble typename.
Weapon Cryptlords are the warlock civ equivalent to a Blademaster, Elite Marksman, Axelord, what have you. Is a little confusing at a glance though.
Post by: Arcvasti on February 27, 2014, 07:18:18 pm
EDIT: Also, my overlord is beating the crap out of my poor skeleton trainees with his warlock staff. I guess those stat gains from being overlord go a long way.
Post by: Geneoce on February 27, 2014, 11:41:14 pm
I think I did it....I did it?!?......OMFG I FINALLY DID IT!!!!
THIS is the cause of derp undead
in "creature_warlock_civ"
[CAN_DO_INTERACTION:MAKE_VAMPIRE]
[CDI:TARGET_RANGE:A:50]
[CDI:FREE_ACTION]
I'm just a dabbling rawcrafter but this may also be the reason why any form of reproduction in tamed animals can not occur.
Post by: Hefateus on February 28, 2014, 09:37:10 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on February 28, 2014, 10:09:25 pm
So Im having a problem with sentients souls rotting away "un-phylactoried" or used in any way so I did a bit of investigating and it turns out the reactions dont have a way to use them. Im not sure if there are plans to have specific goblin, elf, drow, or dwarf soul reactions ie sacrifices or spells but if so then i was going to write some specific reactions so that they stay different from each other in the soul syphon.
I just use the invader souls in the demonic attorney building. It accepts them fine. Kill 10 goblins and get a hellhound. Bargains all week long.
Post by: dukea42 on March 03, 2014, 07:26:44 am
**fixed per below: Change on the reaction for the reagent A to: [REAGENT:A:1:PLANT:NONE:NONE:NONE][REACTION_CLASS:SOUL]
Fairly certain it was picking up any "butchered" soul. I know it was working on the standard souls but I had limited invaders killed to test it on invader souls changed via the Orc plugin.
If my modding skills follow, all souls start out as plants with the reaction class as soul. That allows them to wither. The phylactery changes it to a stone tool, with the same reaction class. If you changed the PLANT to NONE it would endlessly loop on the same phylactories it makes.
Post by: Meph on March 03, 2014, 07:44:30 am
But yeah, I fixed it in the dev version, among a few other things... like... wait for it.... ALL SUMMONED CREATURES CAN BECOME NOBLES AND SOLDIERS!
Post by: Jaso11111 on March 03, 2014, 08:02:12 am
I had a look, yeah, I used the specific soul plant, instead of any plant with soul reaction class. The posted fix works, except that you slightly messed up the reagent, you have one NONE too much. ;)Kiss me you bastard!
But yeah, I fixed it in the dev version, among a few other things... like... wait for it.... ALL SUMMONED CREATURES CAN BECOME NOBLES AND SOLDIERS!
Post by: Nuttycompa on March 03, 2014, 08:03:20 am
This is the 4th tower I lost because of you amazing update Meph :'(
But, seriously keep it coming :P
Post by: Meph on March 03, 2014, 08:27:57 am
No. :PI had a look, yeah, I used the specific soul plant, instead of any plant with soul reaction class. The posted fix works, except that you slightly messed up the reagent, you have one NONE too much. ;)Kiss me you bastard!
But yeah, I fixed it in the dev version, among a few other things... like... wait for it.... ALL SUMMONED CREATURES CAN BECOME NOBLES AND SOLDIERS!
Update will come later today. I have a few things added, mostly bugfixes, some more things in the GUI and a new tileset.
Post by: kizucha on March 05, 2014, 05:39:23 am
I have a little question about the warlocks and population cap. The ghouls and skelettons count to the population cap but i like to play most of my games with a low population cap because i want to "work" for a high population but i think its not so good with the warlocks if the "minions" count to the population cap. I like to set the cap so low that i dont get anyone after the first two migration waves but the little problem or my question is, can i "create/make" new warlocks? Or is it possible that i only get warlock migrants? Exists there a way that i can have more warlocks with a low population cap?
And if i dont overseen it are there anywhere in the manuel or other places a list what job's can a warlock/skeletton/ghoul do? Or i have to try it?
Post by: palu on March 05, 2014, 10:24:29 am
Post by: kizucha on March 05, 2014, 11:11:23 am
But how can i do all the fency stuff like banner? They consume a warlock, thats a little tricky then , because if one is unlucky and start with only 1 warlock and dont get any warlock from the migrants. Ok it's the worst/worst scenario but is that not a little to strikt? I think about an building like the town portal from dwarf's. :)
And by the way. I think the warlock civs in my worlds are somewhat alive, get alway's min. 2 civs to chose. I gen the worlds always for 100 years and take the large region.
Post by: palu on March 05, 2014, 02:47:59 pm
Post by: LMeire on March 05, 2014, 03:17:39 pm
Post by: kizucha on March 05, 2014, 03:31:08 pm
Correct me if i'm wrong how i said it's my first time as warlock and i have very low experience with the warlock-mode. ^.^
Edit: If the "Warlock-Families"-bug work i try it but only in emergency, i dont like to use it because it feels wrong and cheaty. xD
Post by: Geneoce on March 05, 2014, 03:47:26 pm
I never run with less than 9 warlocks. Actually I always run with 9 warlocks.
Post by: Jaso11111 on March 05, 2014, 04:40:45 pm
Could we perhaps get some sort of undead beacon that attracts ambient undead to it, like the gnome druid device?
Post by: Dazbuzz on March 06, 2014, 02:43:50 am
Post by: kizucha on March 06, 2014, 04:07:46 am
With geneoce's style the bigger embark, do you guy's use the warlocks for the more "low"-jobs like farming/mining/crafting? Or are your warlocks "lazy" and let the minions do all the hard work? :)
And are you guy's actually farm or only hunt and brew bloodwine and kill anything on sight?^^
Post by: Dazbuzz on March 06, 2014, 06:08:49 am
I always bring seeds. Rope Reed is a good one for example. You can brew it, and turn it into thread. Taking 2-3 seed types can help a lot. Then save your blood barrels for Bloodsteel production. You can also use the seeds from farming to cultivate some nice stuff in the Herbalist. Like make some Shadowleave spawns or Nether Creeper.
Post by: kizucha on March 06, 2014, 11:35:18 am
The herbalist sounds funny, its so many things to do in this mod. :)
Post by: dukea42 on March 06, 2014, 04:46:50 pm
"lessor" warlocks get chemistry, alchemy, scribing, jewelry, sorcery/necromancy, and hauling. If I get more, the I specialize the above limited skills.
Skeletons are specialized into wood, stone, glass, metal, or war as needed. New shambling will haul if that's needed before they are trained.
Post by: kizucha on March 08, 2014, 10:52:01 am
By the way who can i design a stockpile alone for the phylacteries, like to make a stockpile for the necromantic shrine. I tried a few things but no phylacteries get transported to it, so anyone can help me? :)
And befor i sacrafice my warlocks anyone have experiance with the reactions that consum warlocks? It's possible to ressurect them after that? Or are they out of the game after the reaction? If it's possible i have no problem that we can not "order/make" new warlocks. ;D
Edit: The point with the stockpile, i think i found it. It's under finished goods "tools" and under stone/clay turn on "souls". I'm not 100% sure because i have all materials activatet but i think it's working this way.^^
Post by: Lord Aldrich on March 08, 2014, 04:40:53 pm
Post by: palu on March 08, 2014, 08:03:56 pm
Quote
And befor i sacrafice my warlocks anyone have experiance with the reactions that consum warlocks? It's possible to ressurect them after that? Or are they out of the game after the reaction? If it's possible i have no problem that we can not "order/make" new warlocks. ;D
The body is consumed, the whole point is you're trading a warlock for some benefit.
Post by: megahelmet on March 09, 2014, 12:33:35 am
Post by: Jaso11111 on March 09, 2014, 06:36:37 am
Well, I've run into a new bug. The inscriptor does not seem to be able to increase the skills of my skeletons. I run the reaction and 3 gems and a soul are used up, but no skill increase.It takes a few ticks for the script to kick in. Maybe thats it?
Post by: Dwarf-Zero on March 09, 2014, 08:32:13 am
other bugs:
You can still make the restless walker zombie for 2 bones at the necromantic shrine, then kill and butcher them for a soul and a lot of other materials.
But the ones who attacked the zombie get attacked by the minions and other ghouls(probably warlocks and skeletons too). And not all related combat logs are displayed.Partial skeletons of restless walkers have the fixed bug again and get butchered endlessly.
You can avoid this by not attacking the zombies but still you get the cheap zombie for 2 bones.
Ghosly necromancer come with minions
Post by: Azuraal on March 09, 2014, 09:43:20 am
Post by: megahelmet on March 09, 2014, 09:27:05 pm
The inscriptor is also being oddly selective. Some of my skeletons it works fine on and after about 10 seconds the skill shows up. However, sometimes it never shows up at all. Some skeletons get a skill quickly, and some never do.
Post by: Nuttycompa on March 09, 2014, 10:24:30 pm
So if you don't run both of them reaction will not complete
Post by: Arcvasti on March 09, 2014, 10:26:41 pm
To get throne room to work you have to run object (kill prunder kidnap) reaction and then target (country site, town,...) reaction. From what I understand, throne room will generate item from first reaction which will be use in the second one.Plus the reaction should be run by the Overlord. That might have something to do with it.
So if you don't run both of them reaction will not complete
Post by: Meph on March 10, 2014, 10:22:49 am
Correct, only the Overlord can do this.To get throne room to work you have to run object (kill prunder kidnap) reaction and then target (country site, town,...) reaction. From what I understand, throne room will generate item from first reaction which will be use in the second one.Plus the reaction should be run by the Overlord. That might have something to do with it.
So if you don't run both of them reaction will not complete
I might change the embark crew and migrants to all warlocks.. and ghouls and skeletons have to be made. What do you guys think?
Post by: megahelmet on March 10, 2014, 11:43:08 am
I might change the embark crew and migrants to all warlocks.. and ghouls and skeletons have to be made. What do you guys think?
I love this idea.
Can the vampire % be lowered as well then? As is, if I get a vampire, he gets locked away and fed through a dump chute till I can either cure him or make everyone else a vampire. Although, if there are more total warlocks, I could afford to lose one or two in the beginning.
Post by: Arcvasti on March 10, 2014, 12:19:19 pm
Correct, only the Overlord can do this.To get throne room to work you have to run object (kill prunder kidnap) reaction and then target (country site, town,...) reaction. From what I understand, throne room will generate item from first reaction which will be use in the second one.Plus the reaction should be run by the Overlord. That might have something to do with it.
So if you don't run both of them reaction will not complete
I might change the embark crew and migrants to all warlocks.. and ghouls and skeletons have to be made. What do you guys think?
Then I'll have too many warlocks. Seriously, even with 3-4 Warlocks I don't have enough work for all of them and its a really long process to teach any of them spells. If I had 21 of them, I think I'd kill off most of them. Especially since all that warlocks do when they don't have jobs is form grudges and whine about it. Maybe increase the Warlock % a bit, but having all warlocks is not nessecarily good. I'd prefer if you only got ghouls and warlocks. Or you could get around the low warlock problem by having an expensive reaction that turns a ghoul into a vampiric Warlock?
Post by: Nuttycompa on March 10, 2014, 01:47:45 pm
Correct, only the Overlord can do this.To get throne room to work you have to run object (kill prunder kidnap) reaction and then target (country site, town,...) reaction. From what I understand, throne room will generate item from first reaction which will be use in the second one.Plus the reaction should be run by the Overlord. That might have something to do with it.
So if you don't run both of them reaction will not complete
I might change the embark crew and migrants to all warlocks.. and ghouls and skeletons have to be made. What do you guys think?
Then I'll have too many warlocks. Seriously, even with 3-4 Warlocks I don't have enough work for all of them and its a really long process to teach any of them spells. If I had 21 of them, I think I'd kill off most of them. Especially since all that warlocks do when they don't have jobs is form grudges and whine about it. Maybe increase the Warlock % a bit, but having all warlocks is not nessecarily good. I'd prefer if you only got ghouls and warlocks. Or you could get around the low warlock problem by having an expensive reaction that turns a ghoul into a vampiric Warlock?
1+
1 badass overlord is all I need, with spell and attribute upgrade, he can break a siege before his skeleton squard arrive. 8)
Post by: Arcvasti on March 10, 2014, 01:56:38 pm
1 badass overlord is all I need, with spell and attribute upgrade, he can break a siege before his skeleton squard arrive. 8)
The overlord is pretty badass because stat boosts. I haven't been able to get him to learn spells though.
Post by: Dwarf-Zero on March 10, 2014, 02:20:23 pm
An all WL embark (7) would work for people who dont want to bother too much with things like DF hack.And wonder why they get no WL. But needs more changes. WL need to be able to do additional jobs for example.
I prefer the system like it is but make it fix that 30% of the first wave are WL (without vampire if possible) So you can adjust the initial WL amount with DF hack. If you want to see all WL consuming reactions for example.
Post by: dukea42 on March 10, 2014, 08:31:15 pm
I never made a ghoul successfully yet, but for skeletons I still have a hard time keeping them as able to be crypt lords.
Also, I was trying to make the raw mods myself, but if you go this route I'd definitely want to add a new tool "skeleton frame" that the corrupted forge could make in Ironbone, blood steel, and dreadnought versions. All needed mats but the soul. The frame the. Could be added with a soul at the altar to make the stronger skeletons directly. New default names possible for each "Trembling Skeleton" "Dire Skeleton" "Grimlord Skeleton"
If I can only get the time from work.
Post by: kizucha on March 11, 2014, 04:22:38 am
Post by: Jaso11111 on March 12, 2014, 03:59:29 pm
Post by: adanos on March 19, 2014, 03:02:05 am
Post by: Etherdrinker on March 19, 2014, 09:36:54 am
Someone can give some tips for embarking, building etc?
Post by: Jaso11111 on March 19, 2014, 09:52:42 am
For long time I wait for the Warlocks. I ve out from MWDF for some time.Heres what i learned:
Someone can give some tips for embarking, building etc?
Do NOT embark on an evil biome! It may seem like fun at first but soon you will see that you cant butcher any corpses becase they come back to life before they get too the Butchers Shop! Also, God help you if you have mussels in your river and you fish them...
Post by: Etherdrinker on March 19, 2014, 10:56:04 am
Heres what i learned:
Do NOT embark on an evil biome! It may seem like fun at first but soon you will see that you cant butcher any corpses becase they come back to life before they get too the Butchers Shop! Also, God help you if you have mussels in your river and you fish them...
Mussels? they are pretty common in my games what is going on with them? How about starting skills for my Skeletons / Ghouls?
Post by: Jaso11111 on March 19, 2014, 12:08:18 pm
Mussel shells reanimate and sence you fish out tons of them your FPS goes to hell :'( They cant even help with enemys in anyway!Heres what i learned:
Do NOT embark on an evil biome! It may seem like fun at first but soon you will see that you cant butcher any corpses becase they come back to life before they get too the Butchers Shop! Also, God help you if you have mussels in your river and you fish them...
Mussels? they are pretty common in my games what is going on with them? How about starting skills for my Skeletons / Ghouls?
As for skills ummm i usually take 1 minner/masson, 1 minner/stone bone crafter/mech, And at least 1 ghoul fisher. Oh and you want at least 3 warlocks in your start group!
Post by: LMeire on March 19, 2014, 01:35:19 pm
Heres what i learned:
Do NOT embark on an evil biome! It may seem like fun at first but soon you will see that you cant butcher any corpses becase they come back to life before they get too the Butchers Shop! Also, God help you if you have mussels in your river and you fish them...
Also, if you lose any warlocks, they'll come back to life as "friendly" corpses and constantly interrupt your workers/pets.
Post by: Fairin on March 19, 2014, 02:01:08 pm
ethereal gate gives you infinite blocks (and free WORTHLES (0 worth) furniture, blocks are worthless too can be used in the stonecutters workshop) the point is. 4 of them can summon up a whole mothershitton of blocks very very quickly
consider embarking with all the dusts to make the philosphers stone. as Mithril is hard to come by, and an early milita of Ghouls wearing milithril = evicerate all life on the map at their rediclious speed (they can run down leprichauns)
untill its fixed dont bother having the idea of having skeletons in the military, they just drop out and go Awol. even if you have them in los of a pylon
cut rocks for gems. make gems into large gems. construct additional pylons, strip mine whole levels for mats, for bonus wood/underground plants mine out z-lv of dirt and breach cavern
skeletons are fantastic as you can train them to be whatever you want them to be. just not in the military -drop out issue, (legendary skeletal farmer that ONLY does farming (no hauling) never eats . never sleeps never complains.. hehe... brewer. mechanic, chef.. armorsmith/weaponsmith.. list goes on..
your warlocks are there to cut gems. summon blocks. and do the magic reactions. and complain about things.
also stab grave cats in the face if you get them on the list, generally it takes a kitten getting squished to make a ghoul go insane.
warlocks can be ressed, but i've only had it successfully work when they are not rotten yet. so gotta be quick.
you can sell to the drow alcohol for souls. but i dont know if its a bug but it takes 30 of their souls to make 1 soul hourglass thingy. seriously tho . highly trained ghoul milita clears the map. (wearing mithril, with a piece of dreadnought - i choose scourge =)
my current warlock fort is building a tower out of ethereal blocks in the middle of a major river, the biggest problem comes from the 0 worth on the furniture (leading to terribad rooms) but i did embark with a philosphers stone. so i'll eventually make all 6 of them platnium furniture or something with a master blacksmith
i havent bothered to give ghouls any real rooms just a dorm. they seem to do fine im sure they'd resist having their kittens skulls bashed in if they had their own rooms
Pylons are currently 25 space range and walls block their LOS to controll skeletons, plan around features as it were... ugly squareish tower it is! 1 on each Z-level on the stairs. protip . in your mine place them first before strip mineing the whole z-level (remember rocks = gems = large gems) Bonus for Channeling everything 8)
Embark with rope reeds and bloated tubers ( for cloth and glue ) Warlocks dont need beer, but its good for the spirits (oh the pun!) and its generally better than a trip to the well. - skeletons can steal your warlocks clothing so be aware of that.
the ability to have undead ignore your civ is a special bonus given at the start of the map where your civ members might fight each other briefly.
also if you build a graveyard you can search for lost souls (never paid attention to the ratio per hourglass) search for slabs / coffins (eh?) and try to find a ghoul (i belive its a stack of meat for a 5% chance to get a ghoul and 2% to have a ghoul attack you. as i haven't gotten it to work. nor sacrifice my precious meat for it...)
while they do drop out of the military it is fun to summon up a whole bunch of armor / arrows / bows from the etheral forge (they do dissappear over time, and high sorcery warlocks make masterworks, make damn sure you got personal palaces for them if you do this) enlist all your skeles to archers and go man the wall to drive off sieges (or help your ghoul milita)
also Skeles + wooden bucklers + pickaxes = stabby when it really matters..
i embark with 1 of each dust. at least 10 anvils, some animals to slaughter 10 seeds (rope/tubers) 1 warlock broker/recordkeeper (try to get 3 ghouls as milita) some mithril and some anthricite, a few hourglasses. some stone and wood just cause. dont bother with drinks. or food (water depending for obvious) set up the minor production chain for milita armor/weapons, butchery/tan/syphon. i usually put 2 ethereal gates and forges up, then make some blocks for housing (initial dorm either in the dirt or a pillar with a ramp and some floors on the upper z-level for a celing for beds =)
you will get sieged in autumn, and 3 ghouls in armor will fend it off if they been training since day 1, feel free to summon up some armor/arrows for everyone else if your so inclined, invaders give the MOST meat / scalps for books, and tastey tastey souls
also consider feeding your milita souls.. 8) my 3 are at 5000 to each stat they can devour and +30 speed, they zip around murdering everything lately
Post by: Etherdrinker on March 19, 2014, 03:08:08 pm
@Fairin
After read the guide in the game folder, I figured skeletons are poor militias, maybe just as "meat shields" (ok they don´t have any).
So well I should redo again my game and pick the All dust embark, the grave cats just instantly died when the game starts ( I dunno why, the deathcause command don´t show any info why they died, just said "the grave cat died in year 101". So I not going to waste points I can´t choose them for butchery eighter.
The worthless blocks are not bad as you think, they don´t pump your fort worth and slow down the thieves attacks and those pesky "leprosychaums" they are my arch-enemies. You can change the dump-blocks when your fort is wall safe.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
EDIT: Why my Warlock don´t store souls in phylacteries? (used DT for activate the labor) nothings happens.
Post by: Fairin on March 19, 2014, 04:15:53 pm
or just "quit" before embarking if you dont have what you want in the group..
i didnt say they were bad.. just sayin they dont add to room value. which makes for a sad overlord if his throneroom isnt pritty.
and finally. hehe. warlocks are a baby snatcher civ. they're gonna come knockin regardless of value =) just dont waste your time getting masterwork etheral -anything- and think its good for happiness =P
Post by: Dazbuzz on March 19, 2014, 05:29:29 pm
Post by: Fairin on March 19, 2014, 05:41:27 pm
also the crematorium is unbeliveably happy for the warlocks.. 3 ash for a log? .yespls hello bloodsteel.. how are you today?
suddenly bloodsteel is the most common thing in my fortress.. bloodsteel EVERYTHING!
- hooollyyy shiiit year 4 73 invader elven ambush... meat for daays...
year 4 late autumn, 83 dwarves. fire mancers settin my grass on fire.. still just 3 milita ghouls in full mithril w/named dreadnought scourges so many hands and feet dismembered... gonna start 2 more groups of ghouls training. hehe.. FPS drops to 75 when theres soooo many units on the screen
also, Large bone pots. don't seem to do anything?
Post by: Etherdrinker on March 19, 2014, 07:17:54 pm
You mean using the Ethereal block with legendary crafters I guest (still they will not cost as much a MW craft made from Dreadnought, I guest).
Elven ambush? throw them to the oven, we are freezing here !
You can make a room trap filled with ghouls, watch the combat log, worser than The Saw movies lol.
EDIT: Why the necromantic altar get decontructed after I use it?
Post by: Nuttycompa on March 19, 2014, 09:31:49 pm
- I think you use pure soul for the constructed, the soul that not stored in hourglass will rot. When the building meterial gone the building is deconstructed.
Post by: Etherdrinker on March 19, 2014, 11:08:42 pm
- Did you enable their praying/sorcery job
- I think you use pure soul for the constructed, the soul that not stored in hourglass will rot. When the building meterial gone the building is deconstructed.
1. As you see I have the labor on with alot of warlocks/ witches
(http://puu.sh/7CeGh.png)
2. Maybe this is the trouble I have.
Post by: Fairin on March 20, 2014, 12:37:27 am
Post by: Etherdrinker on March 20, 2014, 08:14:37 am
If I appoint an Overlord, he can still got more stats from Warlord sacrifice or soul burning? (I mean he is still an Warlock for this porpoises).
Edit:
How much the Ethereal blocks/furniture resist vs fire/magma?
Post by: Azuraal on March 21, 2014, 08:42:33 am
Post by: Dwarf-Zero on March 21, 2014, 02:29:32 pm
has someone tested all inscriptor reactions ? This is what i found so far.
works: engraver, bonecarving, tanner
does not work: mechanic, mining
Post by: Meph on March 21, 2014, 03:55:29 pm
Post by: Fairin on March 21, 2014, 04:05:05 pm
they literately are taking forever to kill some elves as they beat on their viel's untill they pass out form hunger/thirst
making animated armor using bloodsteel got immidately shitcann'd by an elf's mithril greatspear (literately 1 shot each part of its body)
also masks are clothing. your citizens/skeletons/ghouls, love to take your precious bloodsteel masks...
also elves come riding in on non warbeasts, and don't engage in melee combat and seemingly head toward your meeting hall. hitting anything in melee range
darkelves come in weidling pairs of shields. which is pritty laughable. i mean.. seriously. 100 drow siege, all dual weilding shields
Post by: Meph on March 21, 2014, 04:51:35 pm
Post by: Fairin on March 22, 2014, 05:39:19 pm
i swear i spend most of my gametime dumping via searching LEFT / RIGHT / FRONT / HEAD / Skeleton, and Dumping it all. butchered or not, butcher main corpse. dump the rest, so much meat...
Post by: Fairin on March 22, 2014, 08:18:07 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Masterwork Bifrost Scourge VS incapacitated elf and their Small mithril Viel
15 days later i think he finally bled to death from his missing arms / legs
this didn't start being a problem ill year 8 or so. for some odd reason my legendary ghouls just.. cant.. kill.. elves at a reasonable pace anymore.
they destroy frostgiants in seconds. orcs and gobbos in one hit usually. humans can have some "beatings till they bleed out" fights but its damn elves every time my ghouls pass out before killing the ambush siege. of 100+ elves riding goats meese and bulls.. (that run away from my ghouls lol...)
Also, what is the components for the Greater circle of protection, it says " A containing dust, C-containing dust, and E-containing dust (all metal obv) *gold worked, 3 bars per made via transmutation ftw*
also for some weird reason it wont allow me to break down titanium bars i just made via transmutation center.
also getting the same glitch from the guild hall when upgradeing a skele. - uses reagents. transforms into skele encased in metal, then transforms back into whatever it was to begin with..
soon as i get my last circles of prot im making the banner to prevent skeles from going opposed to life to see if i can use them in the military. which will fix my coupdegrace problem with elves.
request, ghouls use more than scourges - so they can coupdegrace better? =) maybe flails, or knives (since we can make knives no one can use them..)
*made the skeleton banner, and have kept my crypt lord for quite a while now. feel safer for making a milita out of them now for sure.
Post by: Brandewein on March 23, 2014, 10:27:41 am
just started playing masterwork and building a warlock tower so far.
At this point i have two questions i couldn't answer myself by reading the manual.
1. Concerning the Shambling Skeletons becoming real historical figures to join the military.
I don't know what reaction at the Inscriptor causes their becoming a real fortressmember.
2. After aquiring 2 dwarfen caged invaders and stockpiling them next to the torture chamber, i tried the make em ghouls reaction which doesnt seem to work.
So far im having lots of fun building my own dungeon.
Post by: Jaso11111 on March 23, 2014, 11:03:03 am
1. Concerning the Shambling Skeletons becoming real historical figures to join the military.You dont need to do that anymore. They can join the military right away.
I don't know what reaction at the Inscriptor causes their becoming a real fortressmember.
On a note to the skeletons leavening the military problem: Unless another solution is found, maybe its better to not have them turn opposed-to-life and instead (like it was already suggested) have them get massive debuffs.
Post by: Arcvasti on March 23, 2014, 11:06:43 am
Hi guys,1. If you have the latest version of Masterwork [4i], then they should be historical figures already. There IS an ongoing bug where they are periodically removed from the military and must be re-added from the individual unit preferences screen. They can't become nobles for very long either, so have the squad leader be a warlock or ghoul.
just started playing masterwork and building a warlock tower so far.
At this point i have two questions i couldn't answer myself by reading the manual.
1. Concerning the Shambling Skeletons becoming real historical figures to join the military.
I don't know what reaction at the Inscriptor causes their becoming a real fortressmember.
2. After aquiring 2 dwarfen caged invaders and stockpiling them next to the torture chamber, i tried the make em ghouls reaction which doesnt seem to work.
So far im having lots of fun building my own dungeon.
2 The ghouling reaction is a tad buggy. As far as I know, just run it again a few more times and it'll work. Take note that the ghouls created this way will still be hostile towards the fort due to another bug.
Post by: Fairin on March 23, 2014, 02:09:58 pm
i find the entire overlord thing to be tremendously annoying. just never bothered with it after trying for hours micromanaging trying to get some info. (minions capture prisoners. that run off to your dining room and chill. don't eat and eventually starve. so if you dont micromanage it you miss out.)
total raiding parties sent out, about 50, prisoners captured. 10. Prisoners that starved cause i failed to notice. 4. prisoners strip searched 6 for about a month. rewards, 1 bone maul(where was that goblin hiding that..) turned 2 into ghouls (reaction on repeat worked) tortured the other two for information. they died of hunger after a few months of torture.
year thirteen of my dungeon, skeleton banner down. got my 4 horsemen (ghouls) excessively legendary, my ghoul lord (also legendary) with 7 new trainees (all ghouls), and 10 skeleton archers lead by my dreadnought crypt lord (skeletons suffer from the "transform bug from the guildhall, some will change some will not)
gave the skeletons their own personal skeleton servant that delivers ammo (and summons the ammo from their own ethereal forge hehe) in their own little sealed off pill boxes. its beautiful
centaurs keep spawning on my map. raised them. can assign them labors after reviving them >:) the thunderbirds are similiar but cant be assigned stuff =( but they do eat from the food stockpile. making putting them in a pasture useless.
the sieges dont happen anymore. i guess after 10 years of loosing their armies they said .. lets not and say we did! got everyone in my fort wearing mithril armor and started feeding everyone souls at this point. no one under 2k agility allowed (well skeletons don't need it with the banner...)
what i really need is more military positions.. make little squads of skeles for nefarious purposes..
Post by: drayath on March 27, 2014, 08:52:27 am
Workshops
- Archelogist: Prepare Treasure reaction not available - Missing {BUILDING:ARCHEOLOGIST_WARLOCK:NONE}
- Archelogist: Prepare Relic reaction not available - Missing {BUILDING:ARCHEOLOGIST_WARLOCK:NONE}
- Necromantic Altar: Resurect megabest - (display issue only) Anouncement says a changling was used, but you dont need one for the resurction.
- Stonecrafter's shop: Shortcut key (d) clashes with dyiers shop.
- Teleport Pads. Teleport squad only transfers unit running reaction. In addition to transporting your civ members, it would be extremly usefuly to send nearby Restless Dead (which i don't think count as members of your civ so will presently be filtered out)
Creatures
- Memphits dont appear to use there spells.
General
- Inital undead status means that summoned memphits and any start animals immediatly attack (the skelletons?), this is likly to be even worse if memphits start using there spells again.
- Some migrants (skelletons again?) drop all there equipment in a forbidden pile on the square they enter the map.
- dfhack\scripts\fullheal script fails needs updating for the included version of dfhack (though not used by any interactions at the moment)
- Nothing seems to count as shells if a mode requires it. (I.e. I added [SHELL] tag to the horn template and the mooding unit took the items.
- Some way of recruiting new warlocks would be helpful. What about adding a new raid target in the Throne Room; Seek out Allies, requires 2+ info and no raiding kits; High chance of counterattack by one(or more) civs; High? chance of either Vampire or Warlock recuit. Gives added reason to to prisioner raids to get the info to find new warlocks.
- Dfhack console spamed with error message from teleportbase script
- Should warlocks civ in general, and Skelletons in particualar enter strange moods and create artifacts. (Controlled by {TRANCES} token if not aware)
- Is it possible to use a different skill for Inscribing skelletons (for skill gain), you can't profile general smoothing/engraving so if you want to add skills to a skelleton have to find all designated smoothing/engraving/fortification remove them, and redesignate afterwards. It might not be quite so themic but using sorcery skill instead would be much easier to manage.
Exploit
- You can raise a restless dead from one body part. Killing and butchering it gives a free soul and several body parts to turn into more restless dead. Should probably be modified to drop just a rottable, un-butcherable item on death (Zombie Paste? ;D ) and nothing else.
Balance
- Could i suggest adding adding natural skill swimming (lvl 3) to ghouls, skelletons and vampires. Seems odd that the undead drown, and swimming is not a trainable skill.
- Once reach legendy praying (which takes about one season of using meat to find zombies) a single graveyard can produce as many souls as you can use. Could i suggest that there is a low chance of a reaction product that disables the unit for several days (e.g. temp transform to a trapped dwarf), will have little effect at low skill levels (30 tries for one soul=Many days+ 1 week sleep) but at high skill will slow down the production rate (30 tries for one soul=couple days + 1 week sleep) Tweaking the exact wait duration/chance allows fine tuning of the production rate at different skill levels. The dwarven praying reaction have simular issue at high Prayer levels, giving large ammounts of free stuff
Items
- Docs claim magestaff and wrathblade grant interactions (slade boulder & slow) to warlocks that wield them, but this does not seem to be the case, and i cant see anything in the raws that would grant this (there is an inorganic DFHACK_ITEMSYNDROME_MATERIAL_WARLOCKBLADE etc. but it is not used). As melee weapons potential clash with wanting to use different metals for the weapons, what about adding the Granted spells to a Warlocks Hat and a Warlocks Cloak available in an early workshop (Tailor+soul?) [Personal preference would be for a special (leather equivelent) material item rather than using adding a splatter syndrome as that is a pain to manage]
Post by: Meph on March 27, 2014, 09:06:58 am
Post by: drayath on March 27, 2014, 09:40:39 am
Human/elf/drow adventurer, a fully armed and moderatly skilled, but there is only one of them.
Human/elf/drow adventure party, a fully armed and moderatly skilled adventurer + some less well armed/skilled companions.
Implementation though are playing around with {BABYSNATCHER} on present civs to having some fake civs (E.g. Human Adventurers). If a dies out/is not present in world gen can the dfhack start seige/ambush scripts still be used, if so could have a script that runs once a season, checks anything you like and then petentially triggers an attack.
--
This might be really out there, but you use the new direct unit spawning script already. Does this mean that you can script a completly customized spawned attack (number, unit types, skills, equipment etc.) at the time and critera (assuming exposed via dfhack) of your choice?
Post by: Meph on March 27, 2014, 10:03:07 am
Post by: drayath on March 27, 2014, 10:27:57 am
---
The thought about completely customized invasion came as I was in the middle of writing the post when I realized that the parts already exist as separate dfhack bits, though almost certainly needing a dfhack guru to combine them into a single SpawnCustomizedInvasion script.
script for creating units (spawn.lua)
script for setting unit skills (skeletontrain.lua)
plugin/script for creating equipment (createitem/create-items.rb)
script for adding equipment to unit (stripcaged.rb removes it, would just need to be reversed)
script/plugin that controls attacking units path-finding and movement (diggingInvaders)
Post by: Meph on March 27, 2014, 10:52:30 am
Post by: Fairin on March 27, 2014, 08:46:17 pm
One thing i missed; The first fight i had in my Tower (very start of year 3) was vs a siege of fully steel clad, steal armed humans, this seems a bit harsh as the first enemy you encounter after the wildlife. Is it possible to add some intermediate enemies that arrive earlier, *snip*
how did you get so incredibly (un?)lucky? in every warlock fort i started the sieges began in autumn year 1 30~45 steel clad dwarves, so much meat... (in my last successfull built everything fort, every race sieged me every year with 100+ troops, untill year 12. apparently i must have killed off so many of their civ they stopped bothering me... (except automation who only ambushed, and frostgiants only ambushed once providing my bifrost scourges >> )
net worth is approaching 10million. still no frostgiant siege. population is 7locks 1 skelebanner, 60ish skeletons 12 ghouls, all military ghouls since skeletons couldnt be in the military till recently ((skeleton banner)) and i put 10 of them on permanent wall duty with etheral arrows.
Post by: Gamerlord on March 27, 2014, 08:56:41 pm
Post by: MerkerBenson on March 28, 2014, 02:44:19 am
Post by: Meph on March 28, 2014, 04:58:58 am
Could you please post the save of your 10 year fort? I guess its the longest running tower so far, and it could give some nice examples of what i could add or improve.
Post by: Fairin on March 28, 2014, 11:38:51 pm
*snip*
Could you please post the save of your 10 year fort? I guess its the longest running tower so far, and it could give some nice examples of what i could add or improve.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6m33ji65rarv0xy/Ksemm7es1m
started in year 10, now year 24 everything is generally idle. at the time of the save i was just making EVERYTHING out of steel / bloodsteel / mithril .. just for grins.
the ghouls in the mini barracks are in BOOTCAMP (forbidden doors) untill they are legendary lashers/fighters/shield atleast 10+ armoruser
the skeletons in the crypt guard are all archers in full bloodsteel. can ignore enemy archer return fire.
all warlocks are training each other in the art of war, no one knows any special spells ... yet no real need with the 4 ghouls of the apocolypse trouncing sieges on their own
sorry the forge area and whatnot isn't all that pritty, i could NOT get the magma well to work (go on i left it up ) so i DF hacked some magma in to make up for it.
on this specific map i had to DF hack the top part , and upper left half of the map .as things were spawning there and doing nothing for -ages- and the left have to stop the water drain from the river (gimmie back my fps!)
all of my ash comes from worn clothing
60 + skeletons go throughclothing like no tomarrow.. (really hate my skeles pick up clothing ..)
masks count as clothing and gain wear X*Bloodsteel mask!*X so i stopped makin them . -.-
i was gonna assign all the ghouls new lodgings down in the depths with the engraved walls (since making obsidian without a magma source is a pita to do it above ground, i dont really want to abuse dfhack for my fortress design =P)
hasn't been a siege in ages . but usually get an ambush once a year , was thinking about paving the tiles in bloodsteel from all the drow.
All the warlocks are excellent Doctors (except wound dressing. no one can learn that -101%xp, even though theres a reaction for it.)
all thats left to do is teach warlocks fun spells. outfit the remaining 50 skeletons in full armor (for grins) finish making their mithril cloaks. and try out some more fun stuff, got an army of 12 legendary ghoul fighters, 10 skele archers. 5 warlocks being trained. everythings in full masterwork (mostly) mithril most of the population are soul eaters ( have fun with that. got tons and tons of souls saved up)
also some bars cannot be ground to dust (check my bar stockpile)
shameless DF hacks, autodumped for quantum stockpiles, cleaned the map. got some of the trash off the field every so often, for the sake of FPS.
Skeles in burrows - Smelter + smithy, Ammo skeleton summons empyreal arrows, was gonna make one for the weaver skele (weaver spinner tailor ect) but meh i don't need him around as much. was going to make the archers in burrows but it was a pain since i only have 1 squad, and military basically ignores them unless you mess with the schudule.. i digress..
niri and zack have died at least twice. i belive niri has to die again to get his arm back (reaaly need to find out why he lost his arm in the first place...)
res some centaurs and assign them labors via v>p>l he he...
buildings i didn't really use (this time around) any of the souls for goods, tried the dungeonthingys to get a ghoul or two. worked after a time, reaction on repeat got the result. (had at least 2 "prisoners" starve before i noticed them.)
all in all theres plenty to do from this point, tons of resources to do whatever you like make a room compltely out of mithril. or the like, kill sieges melt all their gear grind up the powder make it into mithril. repeat, profit. win
(currently in the smithy burrow the Barstockpile, and the Furniture stockpile are linked to it. remove the links do do what you'd like, was decorateing some stuff >:) high value beds are better to sleep in. and all my bedrolls are worth 2k+
also meph i dont think warlocks can use farmed trees, as the sawmill lacked the reactions to make them useable.
Post by: Meph on March 29, 2014, 02:55:28 am
Post by: Fairin on March 29, 2014, 10:05:22 am
however ghouls are an expendable resource that is only good for cannon fodder / scourge milita / butcher, they could benefit from another labor or two, they're currently haulers / butchers / meat catchers. in late game they're only good for milita, that cant coup-de-grace elves =(
i find it all relatively ballanced, just really dislike being unable to use skeletons (on a permanent basis) untill i build a skeleton banner
i would love a workshop reaction that removed the opposed to life tag from skeletons i want individually (like the morgue, adding a soulgem + dreadnought)
or, make the ironbone / dreadnought skeles come without the opposed to life tag ?
for the mining purposes just a minor ammount of micro to put pylons on a Z level before mining it out however it would be good to note that after your done with a Z level to wall it off to prevent pathfinding lag / loss of FPS.
i noticed that some of my skeletons (and even one of my 4 apocalypse ghouls) suddenly lost all agility (16/2035 or something) no idea how that happened, i fed them souls to compensate for the loss, but half my ghouls were under 100 agility at one point.
MY NEXT warlock fort is gonna be Warlocks as the primary milita so deffinately gonna try out the spells
(btw resing warlocks CAN fail, just be persistant and eventually the reaction will work)
things i would change to make them more fun?. maybe an early altar or spellbook workshop to learn a few basic spells,
the ironbone/dreadnought removal of opposed to life, or a workshop reaction to remove it so they can be in the military.
A Second weapon for ghouls to use (scourges can not coup-de-grace)
another workshop reaction to give sorcery(expensive?) to a skeleton for "ethereal summoning purposes" (detailed by my Ammo skeleton) since using warlocks to summon gear makes them go berserk after a few of their poor masterworks go poof.
a "summon Arrows" without the bow/quiver clutter (or did i completely miss it?)
a second helmet / make mask not citizen clothing / change mask to 2nd helmet for animated armor
skeletons shouldn't require clothing. T_T so much clutter (no idea if thats even remotely fix/changeable)
Overlord aspect, could the dungeon be used to open cages for prisoners. instead of having them run free in the fort? , perferably not an automatic reaction, so we can stockpile cages that we're not actively micromanaging.
Overlord aspect p2, i never once found a piece of info, maybe make it a little less rare or im just unlucky.
Overlord aspect p3, most requested feature is to turn a prisoner into a warlock, how about an apprentice that turns into one eventually? - delayed syndrome uses child graphic, does menial labors?
Overlord aspect p4, - never noticed my overlord spawning minions, ever i butcher them for the sake of FPS. thats basically what they're good for currently since they're not using their abilities (which could be FUN!)
- random collection of thoughts, - love fairin
Post by: Meph on March 30, 2014, 07:10:23 am
Post by: Gamerlord on March 30, 2014, 07:30:59 am
Also, give Pike/Spear skill to the ghouls! Whips just... They don't make sense as a skill for them.
Post by: Jiamil on March 30, 2014, 10:50:46 am
I had a prisoner from raiding, I made him to a ghoul, he wasn't killed, but I got the ghoul, who shortly after died as an insane babbling one, allthough I had enough clothes, food and even a dorm set up.
The prisoner wasn't dead, so I decided to try to make him into a pain elemental, worked, the prisoner exploded. The elemental shortly after started a fight with a minion, got killed and injured my whole dining room occupying warlocks, the result was a mining skeleton going on a rampage attacking everybody.
So, how do I get (working and not going insane/killing other warlocks) ghouls?
How do I make sure that skeletons don't go nuts, too? (A powered pylon was next to the skeleton when it started killing everything)
Post by: drayath on March 30, 2014, 01:48:27 pm
Workshops
- Inscribor: Should only really work with cut gems not cut rocks (e.g. No cut clay)
- Necro Altar: Doc should detail that Resurect Skeleton needs to be performed by warlock. (INTERACTION:RESSURECT_SKELETON: also looks like it needs allow for iron/blood/dread skeletons)
- Necro Altar: Raise all dead. the dead raised attack you.
- Tanners: Is it intended warlock don't get the chitin/scale/shellplate -> rigid xxx reactions & split leather reaction.
- Transmutation chamber: Does not have the ===Used Skill=== entry.
Bugs
- Aquired guardian of Amork from the arcologist. If going arould killing your citizens, but you can't target it to kill as it is a pet.
- Resurected Megabeasts get attacked by your restless dead, is this intended.
Being able to embark with all dusts needed for Philsophers Stone for ~300 embark points seems rather cheap
Post by: Jaso11111 on March 30, 2014, 05:05:32 pm
(http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag112/Jaso11111/dfskel_zps8414cd81.png)
I was bored so i did this.
And yes he can wield a sword in each hand.
Post by: megahelmet on March 30, 2014, 06:55:05 pm
Bug from Vi. Tome of Sator's cost is wrong when buying with souls. It is listed as costing 50 souls. However, my skeles brought 80ish souls and still hadn't purchased it. I assume the reaction is actually around 100 souls?
Post by: Arcvasti on March 30, 2014, 08:53:09 pm
So what changes to warlocks were made in Vj. The changelog looks pretty much exactly like the changelog from the last version? I don't want to abandon my dungeon if there is nothing new.
It just adds the SWP update to that. So it fixes the rather nasty sparring bug. Maybe a couple other bugfixes on top of that. Its up to you.
Post by: AlleeCat on March 31, 2014, 11:03:15 am
EDIT:
The manual lies. It's bone carving, not furnace operating.
Post by: drayath on April 01, 2014, 03:43:28 pm
Code: [Select]
function PrintHelp()
print "Create units with customized skills and items."
print ""
print "Usage: Spawn.lua CREATURE CASTE NAME X Y Z CIV extraconfig"
print "extraconfig can be one or more of the following in any order (if calling via autosyndrom command each is a seperate SYN_CLASS E.g. [SYN_CLASS:SKILL:MINING:0:0:5:1:10]"
print "SKILL:skillname:skilllevelDiceCount:skilllevelDiceSize:skilllevelDiceBonus:minlevel:maxlevel"
print " minlevel and maxlevel are optional"
print " E.g. SKILL:MINING:0:0:5:1:10 (grants mining at skill level 5)"
print " E.g. SKILL:MINING:1:6:2:1:10 (grants mining at skill level 3-8)"
print " E.g. SKILL:MINING:1:6:-2:2:10 (grants mining at skill level 2-4, and 2 happens half the time as value below at capped to 2)"
print ""
print "ITEM:chance:quantity:quality(1-5):wearlevel(1-5):typetoken:materialtoken"
print " E.g. ITEM:50:1:1:1:ITEM_HELM:ITEM_HELM_CAP:INORGANIC:STEEL (50% chance of 1 steel cap)"
print " Created items will be worn/wielded/placed in quivers as appropiate, other item will be place in the units inventory (E.g. could have 20% chance or a created adventurer invader carrying a treasure map to use in a special reaction)"
print " For now layer restriction are not checked (E.g. Wearing 10 breast plates) and it is also possible to over-encumber the unit so it can not move"
print ""
print "SYNDROME:chance:inorganic:immuneSyndromeClasses:immuneTokens"
print " inorganic = syndrome to be added. specified in an inorganic (VALID TOKENS: ANY INORGANIC)"
print " immuneSyndromeClasses = syndrome class that is immune, use NONE to skip this check (VALID TOKENS: ANY SYNDROME CLASS TOKENS {seperated by commas}, or NONE)"
print " immuneTokens = tokens that are forbidden, use NONE to skip this check (VALID TOKENS: ANY TOKENS FOUND IN 'tokens.txt' {seperated by commas}, or NONE)"
print " immune tokens should mainly be used to used to apply one of a group of syndromes (e.g. 5x20% syndromes all in the same class, will garantee not more than one is applied)"
print " attempts to apply syndromes will be done is the order they are specified in"
print ""
print "LOCATION:EDGE:LEVEL(SURFACE, UNDERGROUND, CAVERN1, CAVERN2, CAVERN3):edge(NORTH, EAST, SOUTH, WEST, RANDOM)"
print "or"
print "LOCATION:POINT:X:Y:Z"
print "or"
print "LOCATION:POINT:X,Y,Z"
print " E.g. LOCATION:EDGE:SURFACE:RANDOM or LOCATION:POINT:20:30:140"
print " Only the last location specified will be used."
print " Location will be ignored if X Y Z on the command line are >= 0"
print ""
print "All values where numbers can be specified can use mathmatical operators (+-()*/) and the following special tokens"
print " {POP} - Fortress population"
print " {AGE} - Fortress age in years"
print " {WEALTH} - Fortress total wealth (as per stocks screen)"
print " {EXPORTWEALTH} - Fortress exported wealth (as per stocks screen)"
print " {IMPORTWEALTH} - Fortress imported wealth (as per stocks screen)"
print ""
print "E.g. SKILL:FIGHTER:1:{AGE}:0:1:10 (skill between 1 and the fortress age, capped at 1-10)"
print "E.g. SKILL:FIGHTER:1:6:-5 + {POP}/10 + {WEALTH}/100000:1:15 (d6-5 + 1 for every 10 pop and 1000000 wealth, capped at 1-15)"
print "After the maths the value for a field is rounded down. SKILL:FIGHTER:{POP}/10 + {POP}/10: would roll 3 dice for 15 pop but SKILL:FIGHTER:1.9: would only roll 1 dice"
print "item wear level and quality are capped at 1-5, location is capped by the map bounds, and presently will case issues if you try to create units inside rock. In future will find the nearest floor to place unit on."
print ""
print "TODO: groups, named groups loaded from text file (E.g. GROUP:LOAD:AdventureSquad1.txt) and setting squad leader"
print "TODO: allow civ to support named race (e.g. goblin, human), will then random pick one civ of appropiate type (within trade range if any available) to create units as. Should then mean appropiate diplomat penalties for kill the civ members. "
print "TODO: built in ai (setting thief, ambush, seige, border siege, failing that working setting some/all dwarves as present kill/move targets)"
print "TODO: create unit on nearest valid location, if specified location is blocked (allow (partially) random locations to be used)"
print "TODO: impliment the create UNDERGROUND, CAVERN1, CAVERN2, CAVERN3"
print "TODO: let creation location prefer either EDGE or random location than can path to a dwarf/building/ construction etc."
print ""
print "TOINVESTIGATE: Proper dice parser for all number fields rahter than seperate entries for each dice part (e.g. :3d({POP}/10 + 2) + {AGE}/3) + 2d2:"
print "TOINVESTIGATE: additional math operators (e.g. max(), min(), avg() etc.) adding any lua function call required no work, BUT need to update the validator to ensure only safe lua code is executed."
print "TOINVESTIGATE: Adding splatter to items (e.g. poison)"
print "TOINVESTIGATE: Intergrate with DiggingInvader to have flag to mark a specific unit digging ability (E.g. Sapper unit)"
print "TOINVESTIGATE: Creating a proper invasion (show as SIEGE in ui, show in site history after fortress death)"
print "TOINVESTIGATE: Custom ai (hit and run snipers, assasinate targetd creature and then run etc)"
end
Post by: Meph on April 01, 2014, 04:47:31 pm
Post by: PiggiesGoMoo on April 02, 2014, 02:26:18 pm
Post by: Neri on April 02, 2014, 04:34:39 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on April 02, 2014, 04:51:25 pm
I would like a way (possibly through the bonecarver?) to make an axe or pick, no matter how crap in combat, simply so that itemless/refugee embarks are possible.
The boneforge does just that. It can make bone picks or bonesaws.
Post by: Neri on April 02, 2014, 06:37:47 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on April 02, 2014, 06:51:33 pm
for which you need two anvils, for which you need a smelter. for which you need rock, ore, and coke. for which you need a pick.
I think you might be able to make anvils out of ethereal blocks at the stonecrafters. So you'd only need some souls[You don't even need hourglasses if its going to be temporary.] and a couple wood planks to make some anvils. I haven't checked if you can make anvils in the Warlock stonecrafter workshop, but thats worth looking into.
Post by: mahrgell on April 02, 2014, 07:25:54 pm
That's what I get for having an ideas pile-up :( But I have to do Kobolds first... But really, I have it all already written down in my notes... ^^ Now I'm sad.
Oh yeah, and it is almost certainly possible to embark itemless.
Post by: Jiamil on April 03, 2014, 01:36:47 am
Post by: Arcvasti on April 03, 2014, 11:13:53 am
About the mephits: One of my mephits gave birth to two mephit childs, one of them has been fire. This fire mephit child was pastured with it's mom at my entrance. A thief was spotted and soon the outside was burning, the child was using it's powers, but I never saw a grown up mephit use them.
I'm thinking that the problem is due to something wonky in the script which spawns the mephits or something in that area.
Post by: Hotawotwot on April 03, 2014, 03:17:36 pm
Post by: Splint on April 03, 2014, 03:24:59 pm
Are Ghoul/Warlock children supposed to occur as migrants? Do either of them ever grow up or should I stage some elaborate accident for the poor things?
They do happen from time to time. If I recall right they should "grow up" normally, but my lest memorable encounter with a warlock civ child was it trying to maul my mephites.
Post by: drayath on April 03, 2014, 07:09:50 pm
--
Few more issues
Doc claims you can make candles at alchemist, this is not the case (made if craft shop)
Assemble a raiding kit: Does not use a specific skill.
Maga well: does not work (errupt and eruptiontrap). looks like the inorganics are incorrect, should look like: [SYN_CLASS:\COMMAND][SYN_CLASS:eruption][SYN_CLASS:magma][SYN_CLASS:\WORKER_ID][SYN_CLASS:2,2,0][SYN_CLASS:7]
Maga well: Blood of amork is not maga safe so will deconstructs on usage when the gem is destroyed.
Magma well: if inside a sealed room, the maga can appear inside walls and on the other side of them.
Alchemy lab: clean rust reactions, does not use the warlock acid (and that acid it does use cant be produced). Functions correctly if you set the reaction to use the AMMO:NONE:WARLOCK_ACID in the rust removeal reactions
Bags of dust get stored on any bag stockpile.
The use of gold dust in making ritual regents is a pain. Can't stockpile dusts, which makes it very hard to keep your gold dust to make the ingredients that need it and not use it for the ingredients (or transmuter) that take any metal dust.
Can't grind steel bars to dust, would be helpful for melted down enemy armor. (was helpful for me to make each metal in one category, e.g. copper=dust, steel=dust_major, silver/gold with no dust class so rare dusts are not used in place of lesser ones, same probably applies to a couple of the gems)
== MAJOR ==
Running from a folder on the desktop under windoes 7, many reactions (anything that runs a command) don't work unless you Run as Administrator dwarf fortress (inscriber skill learn, skeleton upgrade, prisioner interegation, ghoul conversion etc.). This probably wans highighting in the manual as it is really none-obvious, and just appears that the reactions are bugged as no errors are generated (i've just spent several hours trying to track do issues, before i though of trying it). note if running other tools like Dwarf Therapist will also need to Run it as Administrator or it will fail to connect to dwarf fortress.
=========
Seems there should be some penalty for ressurecting skelletons. (What about reduce one on the dread->steel->iron->bone scale with bone skelletons not being resable, give some incentive to spend some bars on skilled skelletons)
Starting to get quite a lot of crashes, rarly make 2 seasons without one. Can't pin it down to anything in particualar. Have them while pauses and doing soething in the ui, and when running and not touching keyboard or mouse.
Ability to learn a few spells early would make early warlock more intresing; My ideas
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Hotawotwot on April 04, 2014, 12:03:54 am
Post by: bennerman on April 05, 2014, 04:54:29 pm
Can I add a reaction to a workshop? 2 is not enough to keep all my skeletons in line
Post by: Splint on April 05, 2014, 04:58:23 pm
Post by: bennerman on April 05, 2014, 05:01:22 pm
Post by: Splint on April 05, 2014, 05:19:42 pm
Well, there's a reaction create skeletons and ghouls, can't I maybe add a reaction to the portals? Sort of like pulling un-named disciples from other dimensions/forts?
I thought that seemed fair too, it's just a matter of figuring out a suitable cost that makes it either painfully tedious or something that has the potential to backfire horribly and get you an irate demon or something instead.
Post by: bennerman on April 05, 2014, 05:28:54 pm
Edit: ALSO! did you know that if you use dfusion's impregnate command on a female warlock, it gives birth to a ghoul?
The mental image of her birthing ghoul triplets is not pleasant
Edit 2: Whoever created this mod, it's awesome, and I love it. But it's called the "enter" key, and creature_warlock_civ.txt needs it
Post by: Splint on April 05, 2014, 05:53:23 pm
Post by: bennerman on April 05, 2014, 05:54:23 pm
Edit: Is this the command that allows a warlock to re-gain control of a skeleton?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Edit 2: Ah. That is for vampires. I didn't realize that the warlock caste was so far down in the file
Post by: Hotawotwot on April 06, 2014, 02:37:20 am
Post by: bennerman on April 06, 2014, 11:47:33 am
I tried adding
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And it didn't work, and I tried adding changing [NUMBER:1] to [NUMBER:AS_NEEDED] to existing nobles and it didn't work either
It's important for what I'm modding in, so I can station them individually to both maintain control of skeletons AND guard
Post by: Arcvasti on April 06, 2014, 11:52:41 am
The manual mentions luring caravans with the emissary, but I only see options to bait armies, was this feature removed or moved elsewhere?
The luring caravans reaction is in the Tome of Sator, for no apparant reason.
How do I add noble classes/militia commanders to DF?
I tried addingSpoiler (click to show/hide)
And it didn't work, and I tried adding changing [NUMBER:1] to [NUMBER:AS_NEEDED] to existing nobles and it didn't work either
It's important for what I'm modding in, so I can station them individually to both maintain control of skeletons AND guard
There is a thread all about modding questions. It is in the DF modding board. People who know how to mod frequent that thread to answer questions. I suggest you direct these questions towards them.
Post by: bennerman on April 06, 2014, 11:57:01 am
Post by: drayath on April 06, 2014, 12:50:30 pm
Made a couple to raw change that others might want; Note they don't product errors but have not all been tested in game. (rember to add any new reactions as a PERMITTED_REACTION in entity_warlock.txt)
Extra uses for slaughtered megabeasts (or mega-souls retrieved from archeology). Scalps and ritual ingredients.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ability to summon a warlock from the Grand Conclave, 5 dreadnaught bars to form the pentagram, megabeast soul to perform the summon.
50% chance of summon a big bad instead, though at least it drops a megabeast soul to try again.
Just change the building if you want it available earlier (e.g. to portal)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Fix for Magma well (replace existing entries with these)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Fix for water well (replace existing entries with these)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Use workflow to control production of both ash and coke (E.g. As ingredients for ironbone)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Following is all to try and help a bit with the management of dusts, particually keeping rare materials for when they are needed. INCOMPLETE.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
edit: 10th april - Fixed megabeast->scalp reaction
Post by: bennerman on April 06, 2014, 05:14:45 pm
"It's probably in Unix, try opening it in notepad++"
*Already formatted*
Wow. That bums me out.
Post by: drayath on April 06, 2014, 05:48:49 pm
Add the following interactions
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Replace the following interactions (just changing them all to spawn caste 0)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Add the following caste to mephits, it must be the first caste, just before the CASTE:FEMALE_AIR line
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Finally update the warlocks allowed interaction, add just after the CAN_DO_INTERACTION:MAKE_VAMPIRE_PET line
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
What this all does.
Summoned mephits now start as a special Unstable Mephit caste that has no abilities. Warlock then grant them the ability to transform to a random caste, and the transform gives them the correct spells.
As an extra bonus there is a 2000 tick wait before the mephits start converting. This means that they don't immediatly unload all their spells on your starting skelletons before the warlock take control of them (killing off your warlocks in the aoe effects).
Note that if after a short while on embark mephits are still trying to kill a skelleton, you might want to kill off the skeleton before the mephits gain spells (select skeleton, in dfhack console enter: killitwith gravity)
For safety consider pasturing them a bit away from your citizens, and if you have fire mephits they WILL set the map of fire the first time an animal comes near so consider digging a fire break, or at least keeping flamably stuff off the surface.
This also makes them show up on the animal list, and they can be marked as butcherable.
This is done as a mimimal set of changes, and could be cleaned up a lot (warlocks presently summon specific different mephit types that now all summon the same caste mephits, that automatically gets converted to one of the random mephit castes)
Post by: bennerman on April 06, 2014, 09:46:56 pm
I created a unit and now it isn't working :<
Post by: Kiefatar on April 07, 2014, 09:18:26 am
Few things... Summoning Pets via Demonic Attorney aren't listed in pets field for me. Also, a bunch of shambling, non-hostile to life skeletons went and attacked a hell beast I had summoned. Lots of problems with skeletons, raised dead and the ilk going hostile to various things from time to time, even warlock specific entities.
Can I feed souls to my ghouls for the bonus stats? Workshop Profiling didn't seem to work, but maybe I didn't have the correct skill enabled?
As far as created skeletons, is there any way to shift them from Shambling to a named skeleton? They seem to work fine, but still are relegated to shambling status.
Also, Though Ghoul Master can be assigned through the military screen, Cryptlord (skeleton variety) can not.
Post by: Meph on April 07, 2014, 09:46:34 am
Shambling is just a name, you can rename them like any other unit.
Post by: bennerman on April 07, 2014, 11:07:31 am
Post by: BlackFlyme on April 07, 2014, 11:31:13 am
Hey Meph, I'm making a lore-friendly solution to the lack of warlocks. Just wondering if you can tell me what in the raws determines when you lose control of skeletons? I should have a solution posted by tonight or tomorrow (I'm done with the unit, but other skeletons stopped losing control)
Skeleton castes have the tag [OPPOSED_TO_LIFE]. Creatures that are opposed to life cannot be controlled in fort mode, even if they are still technically a part of your fort.
Warlocks have a number of interactions that can remove the [OPPOSED_TO_LIFE] tag for a period of time, which will allow you to control your skeletons again. They also have an interaction to power pylons, enabling the pylons to control skeletons for a time.
The skeletons themselves have a one-use interaction that prevents them from turning for a short time, so that you don't immediately lose control of them the moment they appear.
Post by: bennerman on April 07, 2014, 11:36:38 am
Hey Meph, I'm making a lore-friendly solution to the lack of warlocks. Just wondering if you can tell me what in the raws determines when you lose control of skeletons? I should have a solution posted by tonight or tomorrow (I'm done with the unit, but other skeletons stopped losing control)
Skeleton castes have the tag [OPPOSED_TO_LIFE]. Creatures that are opposed to life cannot be controlled in fort mode, even if they are still technically a part of your fort.
Warlocks have a number of interactions that can remove the [OPPOSED_TO_LIFE] tag for a period of time, which will allow you to control your skeletons again. They also have an interaction to power pylons, enabling the pylons to control skeletons for a time.
The skeletons themselves have a one-use interaction that prevents them from turning for a short time, so that you don't immediately lose control of them the moment they appear.
So it's not any specific interraction that gives them opposed to life? It just sort of appears over time?
Post by: BlackFlyme on April 07, 2014, 11:42:20 am
So it's not any specific interraction that gives them opposed to life? It just sort of appears over time?
They start off already opposed to life, it's that the interactions remove it temporarily so that you can control them. So long as there is a warlock or an active pylon nearby, the interactions that prevent them from turning will get constantly re-applied. If a skeleton goes without contact with a pylon or a warlock for an extended period of time, then they lose control.
Post by: bennerman on April 07, 2014, 11:44:11 am
So it's not any specific interraction that gives them opposed to life? It just sort of appears over time?
They start off already opposed to life, it's that interactions remove it temporarily so that you can control them. So long as there is a warlock or an active pylon nearby, the interactions that prevent them from turning will get constantly re-applied. If a skeleton goes without contact with a pylon or a warlock for an extended period of time, then they lose control.
But they all have opposed to life and they still aren't losing control. I even sealed them in a blocked room for 4 seasons 30 z-levels underground
Post by: BlackFlyme on April 07, 2014, 11:52:20 am
That's a bit strange. Did you make a skeleton banner, by chance? That removes the opposed to life tag permanently.
Otherwise, I don't know what is going on.
Post by: bennerman on April 07, 2014, 11:57:38 am
Post by: Meph on April 07, 2014, 12:42:02 pm
And you are writing what? Acolytes of some sort?
Post by: bennerman on April 07, 2014, 01:26:31 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You build them at the Necromantic Shrine (altar?). You'd exchange 3 regular souls at the red portal for a "magician's soul", and you'd exchange one "magician's soul" at the blue portal for 3 regular souls (incase you were stockpiling magician's souls, but for whatever reason, you need normal souls RIGHT NOW). The logic is that the portals access something called "The Mist", where all dead souls from all the dimensions go. It's part of a major mod that I am going to try making once I am done with the POS liches :P
Edit: I haven't bothered changing their tile yet (Was just going to use the normal tile with a different colour) or adding nobles. Was thinking of adding one noble Lich who can control a squad of 50 assorted minions, as well as a [NUMBER:AS_NEEDED] militia commander, who only commands himself, incase you wanted to station liches at strategic places.
Edit 2: When I am finished, they should be able to maintain control of the less intellegent skeletons, learn some of the weaker spells, and resurrect dead warlocks. They will also do some of the basic stuff that skeletons also do (poorer mining skill, etc)
Edit 3: Also, if that "Unlocked Achievements" website is you... Needs more Canada ;P
Edit 4: (last one) Does the game use the position of the caste in the file at all? Because I put that as the first caste
Post by: Meph on April 07, 2014, 02:11:52 pm
Liches should be more powerful than Warlocks. At least in my opinion. And 3 souls is quite cheap, but I am curious what you will write.
And yes, that website is mine. I guess you mean more BC ;)
could someone please yest this:
Remove the IS_WIELDED_ONLY part and see if it works thenWraithblades and mage staves dont give interactions to Warlocks at the moment, but they should. Could somebody look through the inorganics and remove the only-if-wielded part from the inorganics that are used for itemsyndrome? Staves should give a ranged attack and Wraithblades a slow spell.
Post by: bennerman on April 07, 2014, 02:29:36 pm
I'm not saying pylons are BAD, they're just not the style I wish to use, and I'm sure a few people feel that way, too.
And not necessarily BC (though I feel like are implying something about BC's
Edit 1: Oh, the pop-ratio was set to 10,000,000 to try and only get liches and skeletons.
Post by: Meph on April 07, 2014, 02:39:53 pm
Pylons should be work. Skeletons are cheap, sturdy, can be upgraded, never sleep, eat or drink... they are the perfect citizens. They wont even tantrum. I had to give them some negative side.
Post by: bennerman on April 07, 2014, 02:49:14 pm
It was because dozens of canadians from BC tell me that its the most beautiful part. ;)
Pylons should be work. Skeletons are cheap, sturdy, can be upgraded, never sleep, eat or drink... they are the perfect citizens. They wont even tantrum. I had to give them some negative side.
Regardless, 2 warlocks isn't enough to maintain all of them until you can get all the large gems needed to build a network. What would you recommend in leau of the bones, 3 souls, leather, etc?
I feel like it should be a hefty-but-doable price for an early tower, and then mid-late towers can build then in droves
Post by: blapnk on April 07, 2014, 03:17:25 pm
I find it easily enough to keep the skeletons under control by having everything on one z-level (like an open air courtyard outside the tower). The problem is when they run out for the same stupid reasons dwarves run out side during a siege. Then the next skeleton runs out for the same reason when the first doesn't report back...
Post by: bennerman on April 07, 2014, 03:24:02 pm
Post by: Kiefatar on April 07, 2014, 03:37:41 pm
I personally haven't had any trouble with skeles going uncontrollable really... as long as they get face time with a warlock at some point in a given week/month they seem to be fine. Still have trouble with the other undead and various demonic/summoned/animated pets though... had a pack of shambling skeletons chase down and attack a tamed animated ironbone maul or something. They couldn't hurt it, but it caused serious disruption until I managed to DFHack it dead.
Post by: bennerman on April 07, 2014, 03:41:33 pm
I had a start without a single Warlock... obviously I quickly abandoned it, but still... Is there any way to force at least one warlock?
I personally haven't had any trouble with skeles going uncontrollable really... as long as they get face time with a warlock at some point in a given week/month they seem to be fine. Still have trouble with the other undead and various demonic/summoned/animated pets though... had a pack of shambling skeletons chase down and attack a tamed animated ironbone maul or something. They couldn't hurt it, but it caused serious disruption until I managed to DFHack it dead.
Go into creature_warlock_civ.txt in the raws and pump up the "[POP_RATIO:XXX]" a little
Post by: Meph on April 07, 2014, 04:02:22 pm
Post by: bennerman on April 07, 2014, 04:12:30 pm
Its line of sight. Put a pylon on a pillar ouside, and it will cover a lot of ground. And you have a week before the skeletons goes feral. Put a Warlock or pylon in a heavily trafficked area, and there shouldnt be any issues. Large, open areas are good. I wanted to force players away from the cramped dwarven forts... thats why you get free blocks and line of sight control. A tower. Thats the best design to play warlocks. A tower full of mages that control the undeads running around the countryside.
Not that it makes a difference if this refuses to work >.<
Edit: How about this:
-Bones
-Leather
-10 souls
-5 Gems
They can levitate and maintain control of skeletons, as well as resurrect warlocks. They can't do normal skeleton labours. Because they are more intelligent than normal skeletons, they can also go insane, suicidal, berserk, etc. They have two magic gems in each hand and one in their chest. If they lose their left hand, they can't levitate. If they lose their right hand, they can't control skeletons. If the one in their chest is broken, they die instantly.
Edit 2: Meanwhile, I think Creature_warlock_civ BACKUP.txt menaces with spikes of "I accidentally modified it before saving it as a back-up". I'm gunna try obtaining a fresh backup
Edit 3: AMMENDED: Oh, they were going to the stockpile to get food >.<
Post by: Meph on April 07, 2014, 05:00:20 pm
But I might add a system that allows making more Warlocks... it seems like the most requested feature.
Post by: bennerman on April 07, 2014, 05:46:56 pm
Ehm... they are completely unbalanced. They dont eat, sleep, drink, age and you can wall one of them in and never lose the game. Which is exactly why that undead-control system exists in the first place. No Warlocks = No Undeads.
But I might add a system that allows making more Warlocks... it seems like the most requested feature.
Alright. It's there if you want it. I just figure it's more "realistic" than trying to get warlocks in a world where the civilization died out up to a thousand years ago
Post by: Meph on April 07, 2014, 05:59:03 pm
I am not averse to new forms of undeads, and a slightly magical skeleton does not sound like a bad idea, its just that a undead ruling the undead is too unbalanced, for stated reasons.
Post by: Splint on April 07, 2014, 06:07:40 pm
Post by: bennerman on April 07, 2014, 06:10:47 pm
Edit: Going to bed, so I'll check in the morning
Edit 2: To specify, as "another undead unit", not a "controller". Since all units have specialties, I'd give it extra strength so it works as both a tank in combat, and a hauler
Post by: Meph on April 07, 2014, 07:14:32 pm
Post by: blapnk on April 07, 2014, 10:26:44 pm
Post by: Splint on April 07, 2014, 10:55:49 pm
I was going to suggest some kind of incorporeal undead but then those aren't going to work as civ members at all. Ghosts hauling stone? That's some useful poltergeist activity.
Considering ghosts can rip people's limbs off if they're in a grumpy mood moving rocks is definitly something DF spirits could do.
If properly... Motivated. Say by a powerful warlock.
Post by: megahelmet on April 07, 2014, 11:28:17 pm
I get this bug once in a while where the Overlord's chamber or the inscriptor no longer works. Flat out doesnt work. Not even the little cloud of smoke. I see the error above in dfhack when I try to que up jobs. I'm not sure what sets it off, but once it happens nothing will work again. The only thing to do is reload till before it happened.
(I'm using 4i, right now as 4j is crashing a lot on me)
Post by: Arcvasti on April 07, 2014, 11:57:56 pm
"This script requires a job selected in the 'q' mode"
I get this bug once in a while where the Overlord's chamber or the inscriptor no longer works. Flat out doesnt work. Not even the little cloud of smoke. I see the error above in dfhack when I try to que up jobs. I'm not sure what sets it off, but once it happens nothing will work again. The only thing to do is reload till before it happened.
(I'm using 4i, right now as 4j is crashing a lot on me)
Never had that bug with 4i. I elevated an Overlord and got a skeleton to legendary with no hitches during my brief stint with it. 4j crashing a lot doesn't bode well, considering 4i has the game-breaking training bug and 4h lacks the spawnunit fix. As far as I can tell, most every Masterwork reaction that uses DFhack generates that error message. Or at least enough of them that my DFhack screen is full of the little things.
Also, the Portals don't work. At least, since the last time I tried them[In 4h] and I have little reason to believe that's changed much since. Also, when I ask my sorcerer to teleport a group of people from the red portal to the blue portal, he'll target them with the interaction and it'll say he's teleporting them from blue to red in the reports screen. The interactions and workshops might have been swapped by accident?
Post by: Meph on April 08, 2014, 03:09:37 am
Post by: Jaso11111 on April 08, 2014, 12:14:01 pm
Post by: Meph on April 08, 2014, 12:22:15 pm
Post by: bennerman on April 08, 2014, 01:07:46 pm
More civ members are a problem, because graphics are tied to castes. I could maybe add a zombie (using ghoul graphics) or a lich (using skeleton graphics) but nothing fancy...
Well what are you thinking for liches? Because I have the raws right in front of me :P. I mean, I think because they would be more intelligent, they should at least not have the opposed_to_life THEMSELVES, if you don't think they should be able to remove it from others. Because, I mean, you can use the soul of a KITTEN in a normal skeleton, but you'd need a powerful (and therefore sapient) soul for a lich.
Also, I was wondering if I could pm quickly with a mod idea I had? It's going to be a big one, and I don't wanna put in all that work if it won't be well received.
Post by: Meph on April 08, 2014, 01:16:52 pm
Post by: bennerman on April 08, 2014, 02:46:32 pm
Post by: drayath on April 08, 2014, 02:55:04 pm
Post by: Meph on April 08, 2014, 02:59:26 pm
Post by: drayath on April 08, 2014, 03:05:45 pm
Though i am no sure is this makes things harder (less people) or easier (no instant large sieges vs untrained, unequiped minions) ;)
Post by: bennerman on April 08, 2014, 03:06:53 pm
Dwarves 100 also works ;)
See, I think THAT would be cheating. And interestingly enough, when I was trying to get liches to work, I tried Dwarves 15.
I got 15 "Initiates". Somehow the game mixed up warlocks for wizards :P
On that note, maybe in the far, far future, "Wizard Coven" would be a good gamemode, as good-aligned magic users. Sort of the antithesis of warlocks.
Edit: Also, as I can see from your post in my thread, you know I have a bad habit of posting in the wrong forum. Not sure if it's in your power to make sub-forums within sub-forums, but maybe this mod is big enough to warrant a "Masterwork Community Stories" sub-forum?
Post by: Meph on April 08, 2014, 03:13:46 pm
Post by: bennerman on April 08, 2014, 03:19:32 pm
Also, do hunted animals not give souls? I've never noticed one to have one, and if not, I find it odd that my undead kitty-cats do, unless the souls are leaving the animals as they are hunted?
Post by: Meph on April 08, 2014, 03:21:40 pm
Post by: bennerman on April 08, 2014, 03:33:33 pm
Yes with mephits and no, animals do have souls. you need to butcher them. the souls wither away without hourglasses though.
Well, my hunter in my last fort hunted six animals and I am 90% sure I got no souls, because I started slaughtering my barghests to make skeletons. I guess look out to see if other people have the same problem? I wouldn't have even considered it a problem based on my previous post until you said so
Post by: Meph on April 08, 2014, 03:58:17 pm
Post by: bennerman on April 08, 2014, 04:21:57 pm
Which animals?
I can't remember, tbh. If I see it in my next playthrough, I'll let you know
Post by: Kiefatar on April 08, 2014, 04:44:42 pm
Post by: Meph on April 08, 2014, 04:48:14 pm
Lets say that beheadings are such a swift and violent death that the soul leaves the body, and call it a feature. (you should still be able to butcher the head though and get a soul for your effort)
Post by: Arcvasti on April 08, 2014, 04:55:46 pm
Some animals[Like some underweight Opossums] are too small to be butchered. Even in larger animals, their heads are sometimes too small to be butchered even if the rest of their corpse is not. Thats all there is to say on the matter.
Post by: drayath on April 08, 2014, 05:38:40 pm
Post by: Jaso11111 on April 08, 2014, 05:45:08 pm
And does the Necro Circle need LOS?
Post by: Meph on April 08, 2014, 05:58:39 pm
no and yes. no rotting, yes it needs los. butchering dead undeads should still give souls/scalps, as long as the corpse has a head.
Post by: Jaso11111 on April 08, 2014, 06:09:32 pm
Hehe, i have seen these questions before. ;)I just wanted to move them to the correct thread. I dont wana clutter the other one.
no and yes. no rotting, yes it needs los. butchering dead undeads should still give souls/scalps, as long as the corpse has a head.
Post by: Meph on April 08, 2014, 06:10:41 pm
Post by: Neri on April 08, 2014, 06:58:19 pm
I know. And good on you for actually doing this. :)
Seconded. :P
Post by: bennerman on April 08, 2014, 11:33:23 pm
bennerman, they will come with mephits, however they mephits won't cast any spells (so are a bit useless). I posted a fix (well work around) a couple of pages back but it does need a world regen.
Honestly, they are more useful to me as souls, since they breed
Post by: Jiamil on April 09, 2014, 10:52:14 am
Edit: I tried to order the reaction with the manager. One vampire starts it and cancels with the message: Needs A-containing bag
Post by: blapnk on April 09, 2014, 11:16:19 am
Post by: Jiamil on April 09, 2014, 11:30:21 am
Edit: Ok, it works NOT fine. The vampire is now shown as normal witch, but still sucks blood -.-
Post by: Kiefatar on April 09, 2014, 12:28:46 pm
Post by: Hotawotwot on April 10, 2014, 12:26:14 am
Hrm, just got a migrant wave with a child skeleton and child ghoul... wonder if they can grow up.I asked a similar question, and the answer I got said ghouls can. Dunno about skeletons though, just got a skeleton child myself.
I also had a fort where one of the necromancers was married to one of the skeletons, and in my current one all the cats adopted the same skeletal miner. :P
Post by: Kiefatar on April 10, 2014, 01:48:33 pm
Post by: fedobear on April 11, 2014, 09:14:11 am
Post by: Splint on April 11, 2014, 09:43:25 am
Any way to make some sort of cryogenic item or something to preserve corpses longer? I was just thinking it would be nice to keep some corpses around longer, at least unrotten, without turning them undead.
I think this is one of those things where item corpses might be useful. On death a warlock leaves behind a warlock corpse item that can with/rot, take that to a specific building to preserve, and then it can be stored for later. Might not get the same guy but it'd be something at least.
Post by: Meph on April 11, 2014, 11:30:32 am
Post by: Splint on April 11, 2014, 04:45:56 pm
Post by: Meph on April 11, 2014, 05:47:55 pm
Post by: blapnk on April 11, 2014, 08:01:05 pm
Can you supposed to be able re-raise ironbone/bloodsteel/dreadnought skeletons because I couldn't seem to. I also can't seem to grind wolfram bars, it might be because it's looking for [REACTION_CLASS:WOLFRAM] and I'm not sure if wolfram bars have it, only the ore.
Post by: drayath on April 12, 2014, 01:17:26 am
-----
Issues
Restless dead: Attack prisioners, resurected megabeasts
At least one the elven mithril items is bugged (i think one of the weapons), melting down items from one ambush got me 3000 mithril bars.
Melting metal casts from xxxClad creatures returns a lot of bars (1 bar per 2 casts). A steelclad horse gives 10 steel bars, ends up being a lot of bars after a mounted attack.
Acid flasks in weapon traps don't seem to work. Get enemy hit by flask, but no aoe effect or special effect on enemy hit.
Library sections should probably be build with 1 special book rather than 10 books (made in central library). Otherwise once you have 10 books can learn all spells by building/deconstructiong each library section in turn.
-----------
Suggestion new buildings: Teleport Beacon
1x1 building taking 1 soul & 1 block & 1 large gem to build
6 Reactions: Teleports all items with 3/6/9 radius to the blue/red portal. This can be done with arguments to the existing teleport script.
Mainly intended to be used to clear-up after sieges, but can also find intresting ways to use it in mining/industry. Varying ranges are to help find ways to play with it.
Consider: Is balanced without reagents for use? Can't use many reagents or would be faster carting the items back that carrying out the reagents.
Future: Would be balanced better if instead of teleport all items, each reaction could teleport just the nearest item. Would need minor teleport script changes.
EDIT: I have a tweak to the teleport script to teleport just the nearest X items, just need to test it.
-----------
Suggestion
Ease of use on skelleton (iron->steel->dread) upgrades
Add an additional option to the forge, that instead of upgrading the unit that runs the reaction just upgrades a random skelleton. Insead of having to play around with profiles can just repeat the reaction 10 times to upgrade 10 skelletons.
Grant the unit a candointeraction: range 500, single creature target, no los, caste restricted to unit type upgrading from, start-end-delay so can only use once; performed the required upgrade.
-----------
Suggestion
Ease of use on spell training
Add a combination learn spells to each library section. Teaches all spells that section teaches with one reaction (possibly at a slight reagent discount to doing them seperatly)
-----------
Suggestion
Ease of use on stat training
Add some major improvement reactions (E.g. 8 souls for 2000 in a stat)
Balance issue; Can presently give unlimited improvements in all stats. Would something like the following be more balanced; In each stat can only have 1 minor, major and grand improvement (via IT_CANNOT_TARGET_IF_ALREADY_AFFECTED or syndrome class). Minor 2 souls, +500 stat. Major +750 stat, 4 souls. Grand +1000 stat 8 souls. (e.g. max +2225 in each stat if have all three and higher improvents are less efficient in souls per stat). Would mean that different base stats (from caste/random rolls) still has an impact.
Post by: Jiamil on April 12, 2014, 01:30:26 am
Quote
Suggestion
Ease of use on skelleton (iron->steel->dread) upgrades
Add an additional option to the forge, that instead of upgrading the unit that runs the reaction just upgrades a random skelleton. Insead of having to play around with profiles can just repeat the reaction 10 times to upgrade 10 skelletons.
Grant the unit a candointeraction: range 500, single creature target, no los, caste restricted to unit type upgrading from, start-end-delay so can only use once; performed the required upgrade.
Don't think this would be a good idea. I like to control which skeleton is upgraded, especially in the early game. Having to play around with the profiles doesn't bother me, I just use nicknames for the units and search them in the profiles, so quite easy to use.
Quote
Suggestion
Ease of use on spell training
Add a combination learn spells to each library section. Teaches all spells that section teaches with one reaction (possibly at a slight reagent discount to doing them seperatly)
Spells on discount? I don't know, this sounds wrong to me. There are in general not many Warlocks around (at least the maximum I had was 10), and teaching them spells is a main part of the Warlock game. Making this easier would take a lot away, and giving discount for making something easier sounds equally wrong. If you really would like to implement something like that, it should be more expensive, because you don't need to invest time on it.
Also: Fort with the "Not-Vampires" is lost (well, at least not fun to play with), because those "Not-Vampires" killed all Warlocks faster than I could revive them. In the dwarf threapist it still shows the "Vampire Buff" on them, but sadly I have no clue how to change the transformations-reaction so this buff would go away, too (instead of just the caste changing).
Post by: drayath on April 12, 2014, 02:42:48 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
--
On the skelleton upgrade i was think this was in addition to the existing option. I presently have 40 skelletons (and another 10+ that permently died), and it has been a lot of searching through workshop profiles to get them upgraded to bloodsteel and in most cases i have had enough bars available to upgrade most skelletons at the same time.
On the spell training, it is more a work around for not easily being able to see what spells a unit has (showunitsyndromes aside), made worst by spell training being canceled half way through due to someone picking up the bin containg the reagent. Being able to do one reaction and check it has sucessfully completed would be easier. Present tower, start of year 5 and i am just getting around to learning more than the odd spell (mostly due to building a 10000 block tower!) but have 100+ of most of the reagents i would like to burn through as easly as possible.
[/code]
Post by: blapnk on April 12, 2014, 09:54:57 pm
I savescummed and she took out two of my elite ghouls instead. They didn't stand a chance. I suppose I could get rid of all my weapon traps instead. I need to get some airmages next time I play dwarves.
Post by: Szarrukin on April 13, 2014, 03:54:53 am
Post by: Azuraal on April 13, 2014, 04:09:44 am
Post by: blapnk on April 13, 2014, 07:49:49 am
- Send minions to kidnap and raid the countryside
- Interrogate any prisoners you get
- Torture any prisoners you get
- Raid better targets
You might need to run the prisoner reactions several times. You could torture your prisoners to death if you want or you could try to keep them alive and fed at the dungeon cells for longer.
Post by: megahelmet on April 13, 2014, 01:24:12 pm
I need some kind of "Raiding for dummies" manual. As far as I know, I need raiding kit, overlord and throne room. I command my imaginary minions to plunder, got few messages ("Your Ovelord command his minions to focus on stealing", "Your minion turns every stone....", "Your minions arrive with smug grin on their faces. But did they succeded?") and.... nothing else. No loot. What have I done wrong?
This reaction also sometimes bugs out. Watch carefully when your overlord performs it. If there is no little cloud of smoke when it runs, then it is broken. You will get only the first line of dialogue and that's it. To double check, try having a skeleton learn a skill at the inscriptor. If they aren't getting skillups, (again, watch for the cloud of smoke...no smoke, it's broke) it's a surefire bet that the snydrome thing broke.
(I have no idea how to reset it. I just savescum to before it broke)
Post by: Meph on April 13, 2014, 05:21:18 pm
Post by: Hotawotwot on April 13, 2014, 06:22:34 pm
Post by: Meph on April 13, 2014, 06:27:38 pm
Post by: Hotawotwot on April 13, 2014, 07:16:12 pm
Post by: drayath on April 13, 2014, 07:21:18 pm
I believe version 4j also has a bugfix for autosyndrome so check that out if having issues.
Finally ensure that you are using workshop profiles so that the correct caste is uses the building (only overlord can use throne room, i think only warlock/vamp can do prisioner interegation). One thing to watch is that if a unit is killed and then resurected, any workshop that had just that unit allowed to use it will now be usable by everyone.
Post by: Jiamil on April 14, 2014, 07:46:06 am
Post by: Szarrukin on April 14, 2014, 11:05:56 am
Post by: Kiefatar on April 14, 2014, 11:32:21 am
I think it's a bit premature how powerful the invasions are so early on, even when you haven't actually started raiding yet. It can doom early fortresses getting a very early siege/invasion, especially with the problematic military that Warlocks field. Scourge/Flail limited Ghouls, and the bugs surrounding Skeletons and Crypt Lords. I've still yet to see a warlock cast their inherent slade boulder spell... but I try to avoid sending them out.
Building new skeletons, or ghouls can be problematic without a good supply of wildlife to hunt, Birds being the hardest to stop.
Post by: Hotawotwot on April 14, 2014, 11:49:03 am
Post by: Rubicon on April 14, 2014, 06:47:44 pm
It can doom early fortresses getting a very early siege/invasion, especially with the problematic military that Warlocks field.
I have been playing Warlock pretty intensively the past few weeks, and this has been my experience. I have had to 'wall-off' the sieges just to survive 30-odd mounted steel-clad invaders in year 2-4. Current fortress relies on harvesting the caverns for souls\bones\meat\leather while gearing up to face the sieges. While this is working fine, it is clearly not what was intended for warlocks, (pylons etc, early design posts refer to 'open' surface fortresses as a goal rather than cramped underground ones).
Two main problems:
With DF combat a few injuries\casualties are inevitable, and that is fine\fun. Military is composed of ghouls, and because corrupting caged invaders doesn't work, the raiding system is the only way to replace them. This takes a significant time to get running, and the overlord requires some high quality rooms. An earlier\easier way to get ghouls or the ability to raise them from the dead would help with this. (Currently the graveyard seems to be a way to get some more early ghouls, but the chance is just too low, I have spent hundreds of meat on it and not seen it happen yet.)
More importantly; skeletons are totally useless in the military. With the options for upgrading and their general toughness they seem to be intended to be the main fighting unit. However, the way they kick themselves out of the squad positions and crypt lord every few months makes them such a pain that it is hardly worth it. Also the issue with not being able to reassign crypt lords once they have occupied the position and been kicked out. People in the thread talk about the skeleton banner being necessary, but this is such a late game item (need completed library + other awesome junk) as to be unachievable without walling-off to survive sieges.
The current situation is a 'catch 22'; you need useful military skeletons get scalps, to work towards the banner, to get useful military skeletons.
Without a fix to the 'skeletons quitting military' bug, some kind of lesser banner (earlier access but doesn't give the speed boost?), or perhaps a noble skeleton position that transforms the skele (like the overlord transformation) into a unit that has a control power like a warlock...something like this is needed.
Unless I'm doing it wrong? Anyone have any other experiences with military skeletons?
Post by: Arcvasti on April 14, 2014, 06:51:46 pm
It can doom early fortresses getting a very early siege/invasion, especially with the problematic military that Warlocks field.Unless I'm doing it wrong? Anyone have any other experiences with military skeletons?
You can get more ghouls at the graveyard workshop. And I just put military skeletons in my Overlords squad and re-add them every 3 months. You only have to do it 4 times a year, its not that bad. But they have to be under a non-skeleton squad leader because you can't re-add skeletons noble positions. And as far as early sieges go, my 5 legendary ghouls [literally], butchered the dwarven siege in year 2.
Post by: Rubicon on April 14, 2014, 07:19:57 pm
Quote
You can get more ghouls at the graveyard workshop.
I have dumped literally hundreds of meat and not seen it happen. I would be fine with a much more expensive but reliable method. I don't think you can reasonably call a 5% chance (and additional chance of hostile ghoul) reliable.
Quote
re-add them every 3 months
Maybe you don't find it too tedious; I do. Rather than quibbling about it, is there any workaround?
Post by: drayath on April 14, 2014, 07:36:09 pm
1st grab the 2 strongest/agilist start ghouls as your start military (or even better vampires if you get any in the migration waves)
Start with a pair or copper (or better) scourges and shields
At the start of the embark make a Uniform with no item, replacing clothing and assign it to all everyone.
Now equip your two ghouls using specific item, you should be able to equip them with a complete set of metal grade (chitin/scale) covereing (shoes/trousers/shirt/gloves/robes/cloak), and a metal mask (a start dreadnaught mask is ideal)
Remove everyone else from the military to pick up the remaining clothing.
If you dont have complete coverage repeat after a migration wave, note that arriving skeletons drop clothing in a {forbidden} pile on the map square they arrive on so will need to go and re-claim it.
Your ghouls should now be safe to slaughter the wildlife (watch out for giant animals/saquatches that may still rip off their heads with wrestling moves)
Next aim if to collect a bunch of souls (with constant attacks on wildlife) to boost agility and strength, and enough chitin/scale to make sets of leather armour to add on top of the leather clothing. Note if you boost agility to 3000+ first will massive speed up soul collection as can easily catch wildlife, rather than chase->chase->chase->hit once->chase->chase->chase etc)
Boosted to 5000 strength/agility even bronze scouges will penetrate steel armor.
In my case i lost my start 2 ghouls reasonably early to giant animals, but luckly replaced them with vampires.
If you can defeat the first ambush should give you both steel armor, larger shields and enough steel items to start armouring up your warrior pair. If needed temporary stick all the skelletons in a squad & attack the ambush as a distraction for the ghouls doing the killing. Just make you have a couple of {stored souls} stashed to resurect them. Upgrading to ironbone does not make them much better in a fight but does seem to make them harder to finish off, so them make a better distraction. (dfhack 'killitwith gravity' may be your friend to dispose of injured skeletons so they can be re-raised)
Work on a fully layered armor set likly of ironbone early and replace with steel/bloodsteel/mithril (full set of chinin/scale clothing, cloak, robe + full steel mail + full steel plate) for your two warrirors as they have the strength to wear it without slowing down. Early on can use ethereal forge to make equipment, but use a skelleton so that if a masterwork item is created and then destroys itself dont send a warlock insane.
My two vamps (year 5) are presently taking out entire sieges by themselves, with only the occasional broken bone (which heals in a month or two, and with 5000 willpower not stuck in bed while healing)
If you are using vamps look out for pikes/halaberds as this is the only weapon they can gain exp in (occasioanlly brought by humans, can get for relics/treasue in the arceologist). Im presently using pair of Ledgendary Pike, even if they are made of rusty steel & iron.
Just starting to learn spells and are focusing on defenseive ones (e.g. Armor), vampires already take 50% damage, stacking additional reduced damage modifies makes them almost invunerable.
Everyone except the skelletons are wearing a full set of mithril armor (from melted elven gear) and are restricted to inside the tower/dungeons and the two vampires (who are never off duty as dont need to sleep/eat) train just outside the tower entrance. Minimizes friendly casulties, and if a buch of skelletons are caught outside in an attack they are cheap to re-raise.
Post by: Kiefatar on April 14, 2014, 09:01:53 pm
What labors do I need enabled?
Post by: drayath on April 14, 2014, 09:08:56 pm
Post by: Rubicon on April 14, 2014, 09:47:04 pm
...In my case i lost my start 2 ghouls reasonably early to giant animals, but luckily replaced them with vampires....
That sounds cool. Are you using the vampire crypt building to make sure that they drink blood, or do you find that they do it automatically? I have avoided using vamps so far because I didn't want the chance of them draining ghouls\warlocks.
Quote
...if a bunch of skeletons are caught outside in an attack they are cheap to re-raise....
This is definitely one of the best parts of the mod; resurrection of civ. members is an awesome mechanic and seems to work really well.
Post by: Meph on April 15, 2014, 08:35:57 am
Post by: Szarrukin on April 15, 2014, 10:46:47 am
Something strange just happend in my tower - I've got the "The dead walk. Hide while you still can" message. Right after that, a few undeads spawned, but they collapsed after few steps. That was weird.
Also: it is just me, or scourges sucks? My two lashers are masters of crippling and maiming enemies, but it's very hard to actually kill someone, even with bloodsteel scourges.
Post by: Kiefatar on April 15, 2014, 11:53:39 am
1. Skeletons/Military - Prior to the Skeleton Banner they are just difficult to integrate, more so with the various restrictions on squad formation and leadership. Rather than having a Crypt Lord or Ghoul Master, just remove those two positions and enable some generic military squads that can have ghouls/skeletons captaining them. May help with various training issues too. I like the 4 horsemen named nobles/positions/squads, but I don't think it's viable considering the rarity of actual warlocks. I'm three years in and haven't seen any new warlocks past the first few bringing me up to a total of 5. I've skeletons/ghouls a plenty as needed via necromancy/graveyard.
2. Graveyard reactions, any way to simply generate a skeleton corpse as opposed to an entity that you then have to designate to be butchered?
3. Mephits, give them more of a role and reason to keep them alive. Additionally, would be nice if they were normal animals for pet purposes.
4. Various summoned entities through Daemonic Attorney are not compatible with opposed to life undead. Mephits, Animated weapons and other things have had similar interactions. All warlock friendly models, such as appropriate animated weapons, daemonic beasts and the ilk should be ignored for opposed to life purposes.
5. Initial start/summon/migration and skeletons going crazy before a warlock can establish control.
6. Newly created skeletons/ghouls start with no labors, any way to default them to at least hauling? Not a major issue.... it'd also be nice if we could have them go through a process to be named right away.
7. Hoardmaster is virtually pointless. Graveyard can provide souls, even if at a very low rate for free.
8. Skeleton Inscription, probably should not require a labor, but I guess engraving works. Doesn't seem to provide 3 levels of a skill, but 2 per reaction.
Post by: Kiefatar on April 15, 2014, 08:04:03 pm
I have the save and then I get a forgotten beast, a kobold caravan and then a small invasion in that order. Shortly afterwards, the game crashes.
Post by: Jiamil on April 16, 2014, 02:46:36 am
This might help you: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=137558.15
Post by: Szarrukin on April 16, 2014, 08:32:04 am
The more reports and suggestions I get till then, the more I can do. :)Ghouls disgusted by miasma/embarassed by being naked and skeletons wearing clothes - that's annoying.
Post by: drayath on April 16, 2014, 09:06:02 am
--
Grind mithril bars reaction bugged ([REACTION:BAR_MAKE_MITHRIL_WARLOCK] reagent should be explicit mithril bar, not bar of mithril reacton class)
Several other of the grind bar reactions are also incorrect (same issue as mithril or just bad bar reagent).
blood wolf children do not grow up (have 5 year old pups)
butchering: Partial skelletons & hands can be butchered, but don't seem to produce anything and are not consumed. This mean they lock up your butchering workshops.
I have large ammounts of gem furniture (partically ruby fireplaces) from the arceologist. A way of breaking they up into rough or cut gems would be useful.
Dungeon cell: Feed prisioners. Will feed them 5 souls as they count as plants!
Post by: Meph on April 16, 2014, 12:45:26 pm
I cant make ghouls/skeletons think different about clothing than warlocks. Its hardcoded.
drayth: Good bugreports, thanks. The gem furniture is the same in dwarf mode though, they cant break it down either.
Unfortunately I dont know the source of the endless-bodypart-butchering. And I cant fix it if I dont know whats wrong with it. Butchering is hardcoded, there isnt even a reaction I could look at.
Post by: Jiamil on April 16, 2014, 01:21:20 pm
Post by: Meph on April 16, 2014, 01:24:04 pm
Post by: Jiamil on April 16, 2014, 01:28:14 pm
Post by: Meph on April 16, 2014, 01:31:47 pm
Post by: drayath on April 16, 2014, 01:49:22 pm
On the vampires->warlock issues, could you give them a Reborn syndrome that is just the opposite of the vampire one (x2 material force multiplier, -100% stats, -NOTIRE etc).
Would mean even if you go vamp->warlock->vamp->warlock etc. the final abilities would be correct. Alternativly if you are adding a means to recuit new warlocks just don't allow a vamp->warlock conversion, once a vamp always a vamp, if the overseer doesn't like it kill them off.
The butchery stuff is a bit of a pain, was wondering if there was a way to have a manual reaction on another workshop that explicitly takes just the dodgy items, and converts to a small stack of bone. Not sure if it is possible to reaction target the bad items though. Othere than that the only workaround i could think of wasa dfhack script that periodically nukes bad items by name matches. (e.g. "* partial skelleton")
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 16, 2014, 02:25:31 pm
Unfortunately I dont know the source of the endless-bodypart-butchering. And I cant fix it if I dont know whats wrong with it. Butchering is hardcoded, there isnt even a reaction I could look at.
Could it be a side effect of the bonestacks mod?
Post by: Jiamil on April 16, 2014, 02:37:43 pm
Post by: BlackFlyme on April 16, 2014, 02:42:38 pm
Aren't kobolds also SPECIFIC_FOOD, as they just can eat meat?
No, kobolds are BONECARN.
There are carnivore tags that can be used to prevent creatures from eating plants.
SPECIFIC_FOOD is for very specific things, like individual plants or creatures.
Post by: Dorenabel on April 16, 2014, 06:23:09 pm
The butchery stuff is a bit of a pain, was wondering if there was a way to have a manual reaction on another workshop that explicitly takes just the dodgy items, and converts to a small stack of bone. Not sure if it is possible to reaction target the bad items though. Othere than that the only workaround i could think of wasa dfhack script that periodically nukes bad items by name matches. (e.g. "* partial skelleton")Not all races have same unbutcherable bodyparts, some have unbutcherable tights but hands butcherable, some have only left hands unbutcherable while everything fine with right etc. Only partial skeletons really same for all.
I use something like this, it reduce amount of micromanagement almost to zero, but you need to set it up and keep eye because sometimes something goes wrong..
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: LMeire on April 17, 2014, 12:57:10 am
Post by: Jaso11111 on April 24, 2014, 06:50:27 am
Post by: Boltgun on April 24, 2014, 07:02:59 am
So ,after ALOT of effort, i finally made a gargantuan bone golem. I was planing to assign it to my Overlord as a bodyguard, but it wont show up as a work animal and i cant train it cuase its not in the Z screen! Any ideas?
Try saving and reloading, this is a known issue when it comes to creating units.
Post by: Jaso11111 on April 24, 2014, 07:42:35 am
No, it dint work :(So ,after ALOT of effort, i finally made a gargantuan bone golem. I was planing to assign it to my Overlord as a bodyguard, but it wont show up as a work animal and i cant train it cuase its not in the Z screen! Any ideas?
Try saving and reloading, this is a known issue when it comes to creating units.
Post by: Boltgun on April 24, 2014, 08:42:47 am
No, it dint work :(So ,after ALOT of effort, i finally made a gargantuan bone golem. I was planing to assign it to my Overlord as a bodyguard, but it wont show up as a work animal and i cant train it cuase its not in the Z screen! Any ideas?
Try saving and reloading, this is a known issue when it comes to creating units.
Ow, then does building a cage and putting the golem in helps?
Post by: Jaso11111 on April 24, 2014, 09:41:04 am
It worked for a normal Bone Golem, that is i can see it in the Z screen. But when i assign it to be war trained nobody does so! And yes i have everything it needs for training (idle trainer, training area, etc.) but nothing.No, it dint work :(So ,after ALOT of effort, i finally made a gargantuan bone golem. I was planing to assign it to my Overlord as a bodyguard, but it wont show up as a work animal and i cant train it cuase its not in the Z screen! Any ideas?
Try saving and reloading, this is a known issue when it comes to creating units.
Ow, then does building a cage and putting the golem in helps?
Post by: Meph on April 24, 2014, 09:46:51 am
Post by: Jaso11111 on April 24, 2014, 01:22:25 pm
Mh... they should be war-trainable.They are not :'(
Well i guess my Overlord dosent need em. He did just take out an entire elven ambush/siege on his own, with only his mithrill wrathblade.
He was catching arrows mid flight acorning to the combat logs :o
Post by: wer6 on April 24, 2014, 05:49:38 pm
Two in fact.
Post by: Arcvasti on April 24, 2014, 05:56:57 pm
It seems my warlocks are absolutely positive they do not want to work as a necromancer, I have a graveyard and when i try to harvest remains and such they don't seem to want to come at all, do I have to have a special Warlock? I do have a necromancer with me, as a job person.
Two in fact.
You need them to have the praying labour active.
Post by: wer6 on April 24, 2014, 06:16:31 pm
Post by: wer6 on April 25, 2014, 05:52:45 pm
((my fort got murdered by a titanium spear weilding death dorfs))
Post by: Arcvasti on April 25, 2014, 10:41:34 pm
Err... Is there any start up guide for Warlock?
((my fort got murdered by a titanium spear weilding death dorfs))
There's a basic one somewhere in the MWDF files. And death dorfs are a fairly common complaint about Warlocks. Try setting their invasions to "Something-that-seems-like-it'd-be-in-the-generel-region-of-Mediumism" or "Early" instead of "Default" or "Very Early" in the settings thing when genning a new world. I haven't had many problems with them as yet. Turns out bone armoured high-to-moderate-skilled ghoul lashers trump dwarves with mainly rose gold and white copper equipment. Titanium spear sounds like really bad luck as most dwarven armies I've encountered rarely have that much iron or steel-grade equipment.
Post by: wer6 on April 26, 2014, 07:31:58 am
I keep raiding the country side but so far I ahve not gotten a single prisoner at all.
((built a big bad wall around my base, probbably should build a barricks too.))
Post by: Arcvasti on April 26, 2014, 01:20:06 pm
Harg... How do I start up my raiding?
I keep raiding the country side but so far I ahve not gotten a single prisoner at all.
((built a big bad wall around my base, probbably should build a barricks too.))
Just keep raiding for prisoners. You'll get one eventually. Then torture them until you get caravan info. Then raid that for prisoners. After a couple false starts, you should be raiding consistently pretty quickly.
Post by: wer6 on April 26, 2014, 02:12:02 pm
Post by: Omnicast on April 26, 2014, 02:35:35 pm
*Ahem* Anyways... I just have a few questions a simple wrong skill/typo in the manual to report.
So first of all Soul Syphon doesn't use the praying skill. The manual says it does, but I just checked and it uses the sorcery skill. I was wondering to hell and back why my damn necros didn't store that soul into a phylactery... then I noticed sorcery wasn't enabled so I clicked it in Therapist and BAM! Went on his merry way of storing those souls for later use. Also the Soul Syphon description in the manual states that when you devour a soul for speed the worker gets 10%, but in game it says it's 3%. Which is it?
As for my questions...
- How do you... fix/heal/repair a ghoul? What if he is missing a limb?
- Why doesn't the Morgue have Ghoul fix/heal/repair options? Maybe bone+meat+blood+soul to fix/heal/repair a single ghoul?
- Why is resurrecting a ghoul impossible? Seems kinda silly that skeletons can be brought back to life but ghouls can't?
Post by: Meph on April 26, 2014, 03:14:21 pm
Ghouls are alive. They eat, drink and sleep and therefore you cant just fiddle around on them and add bodyparts, but I do have something planned for the future.
3 new castes:
Warlock Voodoo Priest. (different natural spells)
Skeleton Lich. (undead mage)
Ghoul Thrull. (undead with different bodies/bodyparts)
Post by: Omnicast on April 26, 2014, 03:47:42 pm
Oh and ooo the Lich and Thrull sounds awesome... the Voodoo Warlock seems... iffy? I dunno maybe it's just me I don't care much for Voodoo magic.
Post by: Splint on April 26, 2014, 04:28:31 pm
Hmm so the ghoul I have that has a broken outer brain, broken upper true ribs, broken skull, and a broken left arm... how bad is it? Will he recover doc?
He'll be fine, provided someone bothers to treat his injuries.
Post by: DeathShad0 on April 27, 2014, 02:40:27 am
Post by: Szarrukin on April 28, 2014, 07:58:57 am
Post by: Meph on April 28, 2014, 10:45:21 am
Post by: Kiefatar on April 28, 2014, 12:26:34 pm
Post by: drayath on April 28, 2014, 02:15:15 pm
E.g. Kidnap + Raid Caravan or Steal + Raid Town
If you have just done a bunch of the raid jobs, do one order job for each minion order item laying arround to kick off the next steps in each raid. (nb/ this applies the other way round too if you have done buch of orders but only one raid job)
Post by: Kiefatar on April 28, 2014, 07:43:19 pm
Objectives being, pillage, kidnap, etc
Orders being, Countryside, Caravans, Castles, etc.
Post by: Omnicast on April 28, 2014, 10:39:32 pm
@Kiefatar More like Orders being to pillage, kidnap, and slaughter.
Targets being Countryside, Caravans, Villages, and Castles.
Now I'm running into a butchery problem someone else just mentioned a few pages back. The dreadful endless partial skeleton butchery bug! Anyways is it possible to fix this by making partial skeletons unbutcherable? Then give the crematorium a reaction to just burn these into ash? Could this work as a temp fix? If not I could just... dump em then atom smash them. Kinda annoying though to keep rummaging through it and marking them all for dumping. I'd rather everything be as automatic as possible.
Post by: Arcvasti on April 28, 2014, 11:27:50 pm
@Splint whelp... he still died... of thirst... stupid winter. Then again I didn't think they could die... of thirst... being undead an all.
@Kiefatar More like Orders being to pillage, kidnap, and slaughter.
Targets being Countryside, Caravans, Villages, and Castles.
Now I'm running into a butchery problem someone else just mentioned a few pages back. The dreadful endless partial skeleton butchery bug! Anyways is it possible to fix this by making partial skeletons unbutcherable? Then give the crematorium a reaction to just burn these into ash? Could this work as a temp fix? If not I could just... dump em then atom smash them. Kinda annoying though to keep rummaging through it and marking them all for dumping. I'd rather everything be as automatic as possible.
I've reanimated some partial skeletons as zombies, if that helps. Plus its something for your butchers to do in between waves of your ghouls killing wildlife.
Post by: Omnicast on April 29, 2014, 01:24:28 am
I think it's easier to just dump/atom smash the partial skeletons since I dislike zombies. Why? They lag the game when there too many of em... and their only useful if you have a lot. A small amount of 20-30 works as a early detection system/decoy. Gonna keep it that way. Once I had over 120 zombies... it was cool... until they started to slow my game down. =/
Anyways I have to ask... does anyone else think 3 year old children practicing necromancy is... AWESOME? I got a 3 year old witch migrant a while back and she just loves to assemble zombies and skeletons. (Only labor she can do lol.) I just assume it's similar to playing with dolls... is this bad parenting on my part?
Btw... are vampires broken?! I have eighteen barrels of blood and a few barrels of bloodwine... yet that a hole still drains people dry! WTF! Why does he not drink blood automatically?
Post by: drayath on April 29, 2014, 08:30:52 am
Post by: Szarrukin on April 29, 2014, 04:16:52 pm
Post by: Meph on April 30, 2014, 07:19:10 am
Suggestion:
Replace prisoner creatures with prisoner tools.
This means easy control of torture reactions.
Can be released to spawn the creature.
Can be used to gather more info, but destroys the tool.
Can be butchered to make bones/meat/soul/scalp.
Can be bisected to create more tools: 2legs, 1head, 2arms, 1 torso.
These individual parts can be used to "build" special pets or civ members.
- Thrulls, civ members with random bodypart mixes.
- Fishing pets.
- Igors, medical-skill civ members.
- "Repair" Ghouls.
- Improve Ghouls, like double headed ones. Or add an extra arm.
- Warbeasts, like 4 armed guard zombies.
- Scout like "Screaming heads", use bodyless head as early warning system.
- Animated arms and legs running around, because why not.
These bodypart tools could also be butchered for bone/meat.
Following new civ members:
- Zombie. Learns no skills, acts as hauler.
- Thrulls. Specifically build Ghouls.
- Igors. The medical helpers.
- Lich. A magically able skeleton type.
- More Warlock castes.
Vampires are not very... neat. It seems it is too hard to micromanage them in their current state, so I will either remove or alter them. Suggestions for more Warlock types are more than welcome.
Post by: Kiefatar on April 30, 2014, 09:28:38 am
No, the real problem is Birds. They are so common, and can sometimes stick around for a long time and preclude most other prey animals. Bows/Arrows are viable... sorta, kinda... sometimes... not really... and Warlock spells well.. let's just say I still haven't seen a stock warlock/witch cast their inherent spell. Though maybe they simply don't have one?
Question, every 'successful' fort I've made has only ever gotten two waves of migrants and then done. This can cause serious problems as I simply don't have enough warlocks to do much and Skeletons/Ghouls are limited. Though a relaxation of the military structures would also be nice (as well as fixing skeletons going rogue and all the problems that causes with military formations.
As far as additional warlocks go...
Sorcerer/Sorceress - Starts off with one of the low level ranged spells (Not Fireball, though maybe firejet?) Skill sets lead more strongly towards Sorcery and the various combat disciplines.
Enchanter/Enchantress - Starts off with one of the reinforcing spells, Fury maybe? Charge? Their skill/training also allows them to become master armorers/weaponsmiths/craftsmen.
Summoner - Beast Masters, maybe start with more mephits, or some alternate combat capable pet. Skills leaning more towards animal care. Would require an expansion/cleanup of Warlock animal interactions and all the appropriate hostile-to-life and loyalty issues, as well as simply defining most of these things as trainable animals.
Post by: Meph on April 30, 2014, 01:16:46 pm
Later sieges is very easy to do, you can even do it yourself with the launcher.
I will increase the rate of Warlocks though.
Warlocks could get a ranged spell.
Witches a slow/paralyze spell.
Summoners make Mephits once a year (normal Warlocks wouldnt create them anymore)
Sorcerer gets three minor starting spells. Support, mostly.
Enchanter creates a random, magical item/weapon/armor. (free once a year, like Mephits)
Necromancer buffs zombies/ghouls/skeletons around him. (good military leader)
Thats six castes, with different abilities. Ranged, melee, AoE, Support, Creature creation and item creation. Sounds good so far?
I could buff whip-weapons. They had been nerfed because vanilla whips are lightsabers.
Post by: Kiefatar on April 30, 2014, 01:46:24 pm
Maybe you could change ghouls up to be more wrestlers/strikers and give them claw blades/knuckles instead? I'm just thinking of frequent expressions of ghouls in fiction being either 'living' deranged flesh eaters, or true fleshy undead flesh eaters. In either case, yes they are more lively than zombies. Hardly what I'd call a functional member of society, let alone a warrior that could manage the control necessary to use a whip.
I'd rather see them be the true ravening fearless flesh eaters they should be. Claws at least still mimic natural, beastial movements. Though, take all my comments with a grain of salt, but additional changes to ghouls...
1. No Labors at all. They are ravening beasts, meat-shield
2. Fury, Charge, or some sort of frenzy inherent, or at least via some sort of upgrade... (Alchemy?) As either hideously tortured souls, or ravenous undead, in either case they would lack the dexterity or mental aptitude to do anything but attack. Military/weapon skills are fine I suppose. Granted, skeletons too don't have much in the way of brain-power, but their more arcane origins can explain some of that.
3. Meat-eaters. Like Kobolds, they should subsist entirely off of meat. Maybe get stronger the more they kill/eat? Regenerative effects relative to eating? D&D Ghouls had paralytic poisons, but that's a bit much.
Post by: Meph on April 30, 2014, 01:55:49 pm
1. They need labors for the graphics, they are tied to professions.
2. I could add a frenzy ability from drinking blood/bloodwine. Would give it more uses.
3. They already are BONECARN and only eat meat.
Post by: Kiefatar on April 30, 2014, 02:18:23 pm
Post by: Isngrim on April 30, 2014, 03:17:46 pm
i was think it would be more with the theme of the mod to rename the Codex of Vampirism and the Codex of Lycanthropy to the Codex of Blood and Codex of the Moon.
- Animated arms and legs running around, because why not.Mannequins anyone?
Post by: Omnicast on April 30, 2014, 03:24:05 pm
The idea is that whatever kills them will fall asleep and fall to the ground. As for the pain element maybe the explosion will knock them out of the sky? Fall damage plus being stunned... it seems like a good idea. Anyways these would just help get the enemies to the ground. Where the devouring undead hordes are waiting. =D
Post by: Isngrim on April 30, 2014, 03:30:37 pm
How about making Soul Wisps and Pain Elementals flyers? If possible limited flying like... only a few Z levels above the ground. Maybe as an early AA system?flight pathfinding for pets is broken atm,from what i understand,they only fly if they dodge into open space.
The idea is that whatever kills them will fall asleep and fall to the ground. As for the pain element maybe the explosion will knock them out of the sky? Fall damage plus being stunned... it seems like a good idea. Anyways these would just help get the enemies to the ground. Where the devouring undead hordes are waiting. =D
Post by: Omnicast on April 30, 2014, 06:13:43 pm
Soul Wisp: Requires 1 soul. Puts enemies to sleep when killed.
Soul Fragment: Requires a Soul Wisp and 1 small Gem. Casts sleep 2 times before shattering. Has a casting range of 5. Also puts enemies to sleep when it dies.
Soul Cluster: Requires 5 Soul Fragment. Casts aoe sleep. Takes time to recharge after casting the spell 5 times. Has a casting range of 10. Drops 2 small gems upon death. Gem type depends on large gem type. Also puts enemies to sleep when killed.
Soul Crystal: Requires 2 Soul Cluster, and 1 Large Gem. Casts aoe sleep without a limit. Casts Random/Various debuffs on enemies. It has a casting range of 15. Spawns 4 Soul Fragments upon death.
Probably needs to be balanced, but ya that's the general idea. A tiered system.
Another AA idea would be some sorta rotating quad ballista... that has 360 degree range of firing and only targets air units. It's range is around 40 tiles or so. Costs 10 mechanisms and 8 ballista parts. It requires someone to man it. The upgraded version of this could incorporate souls and maybe a few large gems.
Post by: Deinos on May 01, 2014, 09:14:05 am
Can ghouls get turned by a werewolf's bite?
Post by: Meph on May 01, 2014, 10:38:14 am
Or I just make an anti-bird spell for Warlocks.
Or you remove birds by using the Gui when you gen a world for Warlocks. ;)
Ghouls can become normal werebeasts, yes.
Post by: Deinos on May 01, 2014, 11:34:27 am
Post by: fedobear on May 01, 2014, 01:39:09 pm
suggestions:
on the topic of birds and flyers: perhaps the orrery can be used for an x-soul reaction (unsure about balance) that "call storm" or "create gusty winds" that temporarily knock fliers that are outside out of the air?
on improvements and changes generally, regarding meph's earlier post and reddit post:
1) removing the functionality of the graveyard and hoardmaster might be for the best, currently graveyard is more of a crutch for starting fortresses to create resources out of thin air, and hoardmaster sees almost no use due to that it's only attractive at early start to squeeze out a few more souls out of presumably wood, the easiest trade to fullfill, or only usable in lategame, to get rid of big stacks of unused resources, but by that time you should have other reliable ways to get souls.
Graveyards could be turned into decorational structure for the moment, and hoardmaster sprite could be used for a new building, crucible of power (see next point).
2) military organization can sometimes be a bit of a pain when you are forced into the current squad structure dictated by nobles. I am referring to the horsemen of the apocalypse, as well as the ghoul master and crypt lord. I do like the fluff they bring to the table, though, and their sprites.
Perhaps these titles could be set the same way the overlord is transformed, using a building ("the crucible of power") while regular militia captains are put back in? maybe turning them into these super-beings uses some reagents too, and buffs their skills? They could become part of special castes in some way to make sure their sprites display right. I dont know. Is this how it currently is done? Would like it if any civ member of any race was allowed to become them, I dont know if this is possible already either.
3) Skeletons having innate mining while not learning other skills. This is cool and all, but due to the way DF handles job-related equipment, its always so frustrating when my squad of skeleton archers drop their bow to the ground, turn into miners and go to pick up their pick and vice versa (when they are assigned or relieved from any movement or defend burrow orders).
Instead, why not add extra skeleton castes too? Each gets a different innate skill they specialize in and they still don't learn any extra without inscription. Monotonous tasks would be assigned to them, as well as combat skills that get them out of the direct line of fire, such as mining, gem-cutting, archery, metallurgy/weaponsmithing-stuff.
4) While on skeletons, I feel that warlock gameplay should be more about resource recycling, a sort of "tiered unit approach" where skeleton is the base you can fall back on. What I mean is that currently skeletons can be re-raised, as well as warlocks, but these new units you're envisioning and current ghouls can't. Worse even, they can't be butchered. I don't know if this is hardcoded into butchery or not (that you can't butcher your own civ) but perhaps a custom building can be of service. Something that takes in corpses of all types, even own civ, and produces souls and either limbs for ghoulcraft, or bones + flesh + scalp.
You won't be able to raise your ghouls that died in battle back, but at least you can create a skeleton out of their corpse (either one of a randomly chosen skeleton caste or a final caste that has no skills*). To save yourself the effort of building death trap rooms for your own units, there might even be an option to "vivisect living unit", tasking somebody to enter the machinery and be slowly stripped of skin and flesh, producing a bunch of it to be used, and most importantly preserving the skills that it had in life in the new skeleton (this is the payoff of doing this pre-emptively instead of waiting till they fall in battle, as well as the way to maybe get magic-casting skeletons i.e. liches). All civ members can also just do a reaction at this building to get themselves killed, in case you have some kind of need for that (skeletons included).
This would add a whole new layer of depth to skeleton and soul management. Are your ghouls/warlocks starving? Get one of your ghouls to be skinned alive to feed the rest, before they all starve. Are you one soul away from buying that awesome something you wanted? Get a skeleton or somebody else butchered. Did you diligently slaughter a whole invasion or ambush force? Perhaps you should create skeletons (or the new zombie units) out of them, and after they're done helping out with your build project they get turned into filled phylacteries and ironbone equipment.
(*I dont know if when this system is implemented newly raised skeletons should have innate skills, because "rerolling" your undesired skeletons into new ones might be unbalanced)
5) With all these changes to skeletons, to fiddle with the balance I wouldn't mind if the ironbone/bloodsteel upgrade system was taken away, as well as the pylon control. It's just very tedious, especially when miners dig out rooms in the worst way possible, cutting LOS. Instead, perhaps the control crystals should cost a bit more to make and be able to turn the unfriendly undead raised by the necro circle into undead that are not controllable but at least won't attack you.
6) Under this new system of prisoner taking, perhaps can we take the prisoners and turn them into warlocks too? An interesting angle would be either magical hypnosis/stockholm syndrome, and kidnapping of children (adding it as an extra raid target, as well as "plunder graveyard" for corpses) to turn them evil at a young age and wait till they grow up.
Finally, as a personal request, can regular whips be put back in for production? Metal and leather ones that you can make at the leatherworker. It's mostly a fluff thing for the mistress. A scourge is just not the same. I was also going to ask if levers could be attached to coffins to dismantle them when activated (for purposes of mass reanimation) but it seems that from a previous post, corpses can be reanimated inside their coffins.
Post by: Omnicast on May 01, 2014, 04:01:44 pm
In other news... my Overlord just fought off a seige of markdwarfs... by himself... killed one before the rest ran off. Those pansies... then again I probably would of done the same... I mean that first dwarf that fought my Overlord died... in a millisecond... not to mention he blocked and dodged every javelin thrown at him...
Now my problem is that... after they ran off I noticed my Overlord is moving at a snail's pace and a few of those shortstacks were earth magic users... so I'm thinking he got hit by some sorta slow spell. How long does this last? Is there anyway to remove it? Is there anyway to remove it... by cheating? XD
Post by: RodriguesSting on May 01, 2014, 09:06:24 pm
However, I don't really know the ideal skills for my starting warlock(s), and the skills they apparently can learn don't match with the ones I can assign them to in embark (like Praying and Writing). No video showed this yet.
So, what's the ideal skill set? Also, the embark assign creatures randomly. I can start with 4 skeletons, 2 ghouls and a warlock, or with 2 vampires, 3 warlocks, 1 skelly and 1 ghoul. Got these and a few other combinations during my first tests. So, besides the skills, what kind of embark would be ideal?
Post by: Arcvasti on May 01, 2014, 09:26:27 pm
I am really enjoying this new race, and after seeing some videos, I think I am ready for trying. Been quite some time since last time I played dwarf fortress, and even though I know I really should master the dwarfs first (something I never did), I am totally looking into playing with those guys.
However, I don't really know the ideal skills for my starting warlock(s), and the skills they apparently can learn don't match with the ones I can assign them to in embark (like Praying and Writing). No video showed this yet.
So, what's the ideal skill set? Also, the embark assign creatures randomly. I can start with 4 skeletons, 2 ghouls and a warlock, or with 2 vampires, 3 warlocks, 1 skelly and 1 ghoul. Got these and a few other combinations during my first tests. So, besides the skills, what kind of embark would be ideal?
3 Ghouls, 2 Warlocks, 2 Skeletons
1 Ghoul Butcher
2 Ghoul Military/Hunters
1 Warlock Necromancer
1 Warlock Sorcerer
1 Skeleton Miner
1 Skeleton Engraver
would be my preferred set-up. Miner is needed, military and butcher are needed and Necromancy and Sorcery are the most important early Warlock jobs. Engraving is really good when you use lots of ethereal furniture.
Post by: RodriguesSting on May 01, 2014, 09:32:22 pm
1 Warlock Necromancer
1 Warlock Sorcerer
would be my preferred set-up. Miner is needed, military and butcher are needed and Necromancy and Sorcery are the most important early Warlock jobs. Engraving is really good when you use lots of ethereal furniture.
That's a pretty good suggestion, but I need to know what skills those two warlocks would have, specially because I don't now what skills Necromancer and Sorcerer jobs uses.
Edit: Also, can I assign hunting job for ghouls? Would be easier than manually choosing every single animal I seek to kill.
Edit 2: Apparently, Magic and Sorcery are skills, according to Dwarf Therapist, but I really can't find them in the embark screen.
Post by: Arcvasti on May 01, 2014, 10:33:44 pm
That's a pretty good suggestion, but I need to know what skills those two warlocks would have, specially because I don't now what skills Necromancer and Sorcerer jobs uses.
Edit: Also, can I assign hunting job for ghouls? Would be easier than manually choosing every single animal I seek to kill.
Edit 2: Apparently, Magic and Sorcery are skills, according to Dwarf Therapist, but I really can't find them in the embark screen.
[/quote]
I don't think you can get sorcery at the embark screen, but you might be able to get Necromancy, which uses the "Praying" labour. If not, then just put them on the job, as Warlocks skill up quickly at both those tasks. As for having hunter ghouls, I personally find it more convenient to manually designate wildlife deaths as opposed to having to manage ammunition and all the other myriad annoyances of the hunting labour. Plus I don't believe hunters wear more then leather armour, so having a dedicated military is better for the ghoul's health. I'm also not so sure ghouls can gain skill in ranged weapons, so it might not work anyways. I've never used hunting, because I personally don't like it. As of the last patch, I think that you can, indeed enable hunting for ghouls.
Post by: RodriguesSting on May 01, 2014, 10:36:33 pm
Ghouls can't use any weapons besides flails, according to the manual, so yeah, no hunting for them.
Man, it will take quite some time to get used to this game again.
Anyways, thanks.
Post by: Omnicast on May 01, 2014, 10:43:03 pm
Necromancy or Praying levels up pretty fast as long as you either raise a bunch of zombies or make skeletons. I don't recommend raising a bunch of zombies... FPS death. 20-30 is a okay number.
Sorcery is used in summoning furniture and blocks at the Eternal Gate. You can summon colored blocks, armor stand, statues, weapon racks, beds, chests, doors, cabinets, tables and chairs. This also levels up sorcery and that in turn summons better quality furniture. You could also use the blocks to wall yourself in. I think it's also used for magic spells, but I haven't touched that yet... making books is taking a long time.
Also the manual is outdated and lacking. Soul Syphon uses the sorcery skill not the praying skill.
This building is absolutely essential. Without it souls wither then disappear. So set them up near Graveyard that are farming souls and butchery. This also applies to buildings made with souls and not phylacteries. The buildings would literally deconstruct after the souls vanish. So when your making buildings that require souls use the phylacteries and not the souls themselves.
Post by: Mithril Leaf on May 01, 2014, 10:53:24 pm
Don't worry about adding skill points into those two.
Necromancy or Praying levels up pretty fast as long as you either raise a bunch of zombies or make skeletons. I don't recommend raising a bunch of zombies... FPS death. 20-30 is a okay number.
Sorcery is used in summoning furniture and blocks at the Eternal Gate. You can summon colored blocks, armor stand, statues, weapon racks, beds, chests, doors, cabinets, tables and chairs. This also levels up sorcery and that in turn summons better quality furniture. You could also use the blocks to wall yourself in. I think it's also used for magic spells, but I haven't touched that yet... making books is taking a long time.
Also the manual is outdated and lacking. Soul Syphon uses the sorcery skill not the praying skill.
This building is absolutely essential. Without it souls wither then disappear. So set them up near Graveyard that are farming souls and butchery. This also applies to buildings made with souls and not phylacteries. The buildings would literally deconstruct after the souls vanish. So when your making buildings that require souls use the phylacteries and not the souls themselves.
Another important thing to note is that you can totally level up your necromancy by scrounging up corpses in the Graveyard, which is a net production of things, but you cannot do so with just soul summoning.
Post by: blapnk on May 01, 2014, 11:14:50 pm
I liked the flavour of using an actual living pet for prisoners, it made the process feel a lot more unique and real. Reliability may be worth the loss though.
Build-able ghouls and thrulls sound fun, create monsters!
I'm still interested in hearing about ways to be able to get more spell casters/warlocks and what limits that growth. Because if I could get as many of those as I want the first thing I'd work towards is using the werebeast lair to create an army of red dragons. Would mega-beast souls be a good limiter? Can you invite an unlimited amount of megabeasts through the embassy or is that tied to world-gen numbers and you might not even get any if there aren't enough in your area?
As it is, I'm personally not too interested in new warlock classes, they're already so customisable with their spells and their lack of numbers means you might not even have enough for a warlock of each caste (assuming they can swap). I'm guessing the point is so they start off with a few useful spells at the beginning before you've got the library set up? Is it possible to integrate that with the existing spell system so the castes automatically learn their specialised spells when they spawn and other castes can learn those same spells from the library the regular way? That way you don't need to worry about not getting the exact right mix of castes in the long run
Post by: megahelmet on May 02, 2014, 08:25:51 am
This also levels up sorcery and that in turn summons better quality furniture.
Don't worry about only using masterwork summoned furniture. All summoned items have a native value of 0 so there is no benefit in it being of good quality.
Post by: RodriguesSting on May 02, 2014, 08:47:17 am
This also levels up sorcery and that in turn summons better quality furniture.
Don't worry about only using masterwork summoned furniture. All summoned items have a native value of 0 so there is no benefit in it being of good quality.
So, if I really want to build a luxurious room/tomb, I must use real materials?
Edit: Skelletons are the only ones capable of crafting with real materials? Can warlocks do any menial job at all, even if they don't learn it? Ghouls can only butcher and haul? Having a lot of trouble setting jobs here.
Post by: blapnk on May 02, 2014, 09:31:44 am
I thought warlocks and ghouls could be set menial labours, I seem to remember it being in a change log since dwarf therapist lets you set any labours regardless.
Post by: RodriguesSting on May 02, 2014, 09:35:38 am
Nothing got done.
I think I will try to set labors in-game now, or leave it the way it is until I actually need them to do something specific.
Anyways, thanks. Pressing coals into diamonds seems a little of overkill/cheating to me, but I don't care, a steady supply of diamond blades is way too tempting.
Edit: I remember reading the labors are hard-coded in the citizens of this game. Dos that means messing around with Dwarf Therapist might screw it all up if I don't do so carefully?
Edit 2: Apparently my ghouls can't butcher certain corpses because they are too small to hold any meat. However, most biomes I've embarked in are inhabited by small creatures. Maybe I should choose a savage one, in hope to be able to hunt bigger animals?
Post by: Omnicast on May 02, 2014, 04:20:24 pm
Now I have a question... how the heck do I plant trees? When I q my farm plot the only thing I can plant is "Tree Sapling", but they don't plant it all the time stating they need Acorns to plant them. What gives? I need trees to fuel my coke plant which in turn creates diamonds and also fuels my corrupted forges.
Bah! I must have only masterwork furniture even if it's just for the AESTHETICS! I'll just toss in artifacts to up the room value.
Post by: RodriguesSting on May 02, 2014, 06:12:24 pm
Dwarf Therapist probably doesn't work is probably because you didn't hit the commit changes button. It's on the top bar and right side. It has a green arrow on it. The red - is to clear/reset all changes currently listed. After you press commit it should change the labor ingame when you unpause it.
Now I have a question... how the heck do I plant trees? When I q my farm plot the only thing I can plant is "Tree Sapling", but they don't plant it all the time stating they need Acorns to plant them. What gives? I need trees to fuel my coke plant which in turn creates diamonds and also fuels my corrupted forges.
Bah! I must have only masterwork furniture even if it's just for the AESTHETICS! I'll just toss in artifacts to up the room value.
You're (probably) right about Dwarf Therapist. To be sure, I assign crafting just to skeletons (that's why I would rather have more of them). Also, never allow fishing... something to remember. My current problem is getting game that's both big enough to be butchered, but that's also not an apex predator capable of killing all my expedition members before I have time to hit stone (as happened in my last game, by Giant Dingoes). Probably must seek green wilderness, instead of yellow (untamed?) ones.
Now, as far as I know, at least in vanilla, you can't plant trees. But they probably modded the game to consider some kinds of trees as plants (to be gathered, and not chopped down, I guess?), so you can farm them. But really, can't give you any insight.
Post by: blapnk on May 02, 2014, 06:29:43 pm
Or are you having the issue where you store all your seeds in a barrel and they become unavailable to farmers when another work takes the barrel and drags it around collecting all the other seeds that get dropped?
Post by: Kiefatar on May 02, 2014, 06:39:37 pm
Post by: RodriguesSting on May 02, 2014, 07:48:19 pm
1 - Never embark on a tranquil area. In my experience, only small animals inhabit those areas, and you might not be able to slaughter their corpses for meat and bones, which is the center of your early economy. Seek for wilderness if possible. Only go to Untamed Wilderness if you're ready for some pain. Edit: Those will generally have predators, but as long you keep your necros and bones safe somewhere, your ghouls have little to fear. Also, never saw a predator that couldn't be butchered, so, yeah, more reliable than tranquil habitats.
2 - Since hunting is unreliable at best, try to build the graveyard as soon as possible and make a necromancer farm corpses there. Corpses are more important early on (because they bear meat, if I am correct) than souls, even though those are necessary for you to reach higher tiers in your game.
3 - Try to begin the game with at least two warlocks. Besides the fact that if you lose all your warlocks you're good as dead, two will allow you to search corpses and produce ether stuff at the same time. Edit: Also, two warlocks means they will bring with them 4 pets which, if butchered, will give you more than enough souls to build the Ether Gate and start your tower.
4 - Warlocks are extremely frail early on. Resist the urge to put them to fight alongside your ghouls as spellcasters. I don't even bother to bring staves anymore...
Now, three questions: ghouls only eat raw meat, or they can eat cooked meat? Do they eat rotten meat? And fish counts as meat?
Post by: Splint on May 02, 2014, 07:58:25 pm
Now, three questions: ghouls only eat raw meat, or they can eat cooked meat? Do they eat rotten meat? And fish counts as meat?
Any unrotten meat (if by rotten you mean the kind producing miasma,) will work, and fish indeed counts as meat, as some kobold camps can subsist on fish alone for a long time if needed/until the fish runs out.
Post by: RodriguesSting on May 02, 2014, 08:00:38 pm
Now, three questions: ghouls only eat raw meat, or they can eat cooked meat? Do they eat rotten meat? And fish counts as meat?
Any unrotten meat (if by rotten you mean the kind producing miasma,) will work, and fish indeed counts as meat, as some kobold camps can subsist on fish alone for a long time if needed/until the fish runs out.
Then I will cook everything, to be safe, since cooked food last a bit longer (and as a bonus, makes your denizens happy).
Now, the fish must be cleansed, or they eat it raw? Also, makes me happy to know it, because now I know I will have a reliable source of food for the hard times.
Post by: Splint on May 02, 2014, 08:23:53 pm
Post by: Omnicast on May 02, 2014, 09:33:43 pm
Granted this take a lot of souls. The way to get a lot of souls is to kill everything, build skeletons at the necro shrine, build bone carvers x4 to supply bone coffins and bone slabs, then build as many graveyards as possible. You then man these using the skeletons assembled at the shrine. After that just order all graveyards to search for lost souls while you kill whatever comes onto the map with the overpowered overlord.
Btw... Is the overlord bonus a one time deal? Or is it retroactive? Ie if I continue to feed him souls the bonus would be applied to his base stats.
Oh and don't bother with vampires... Pain in the ass to maintain. Not worth it.
Also fish counts as meat so you could extract blood from them at the bloodwinery. Blood is needed for bloodsteel.
As for my earlier problem... The trees saplings just don't get planted again. The farm plots remain empty and the tree saplings harvested are only useful at the wood shredder. Which isn't what I need.
Post by: RodriguesSting on May 02, 2014, 09:52:55 pm
What? Are you crazy?
Noob, but close enough.
My point is you will rarely have a good beginning. You will hardly come to a place with no predators but, like, 20 Giant Harmless Turtles for your ghouls to kill and carve. While feeding your overlord/warlock (I believe you must have the throne room for the overlord bonus to take effect) will give you a pretty awesome fighter, it would take like, 2 years at least constantly working at the graveyard before I even consider using him against invaders, while scavenging for corpses will net you bones (for both skeletons and weaponry) and meat (to feed the mostly living part of your population). Also, learning.
Since I am kinda of a wussy in this game, I take the safe rout, at least for the beginning. When I have a tower with a completely closed underground complex for 4 cemeteries, I will consider using them only for souls, which would be about midgame.
Edit: Also, if your overlord dies, even if resurrected, he will not be able to hold the position again. So, yeah, the stronger he may be, the unthinkable tends to happen in Dwarf Fortress, therefore, I would rather use him as a last line of defense.
Post by: Omnicast on May 02, 2014, 10:15:39 pm
Post by: RodriguesSting on May 02, 2014, 10:27:18 pm
Blast.
Well then, hunting it is. Always embark at wilderness.
Post by: Splint on May 02, 2014, 10:36:32 pm
Post by: Omnicast on May 02, 2014, 10:38:25 pm
Also for warlocks it's better to use squads to kill wildlife. Use ghouls with Scourges and Flails. Scourges are for unarmored enemies like wildlife. Flails is for armored enemies like dwarfs. Though in the next version Meph might change it to Claws.
Post by: Zhorker on May 03, 2014, 04:43:43 am
Post by: Omnicast on May 03, 2014, 07:32:52 am
Now my question is how do I determine what gender I get with the creature summon? I just copied the reaction for summoning a hellhound then I replaced the creature's name with "BARGHEST" (is that even the right name? Trying to summon the tamed pets warlocks sometimes get for another source of meat/bones/soul).
Post by: Kiefatar on May 03, 2014, 08:05:13 am
Post by: RodriguesSting on May 03, 2014, 08:14:45 am
Watchout on Untamed Wilds, some of the giant animals will eat your ghouls whole. Wilderness would be the best. The real problem is how animals are spawned, and that a new set only comes when the old set goes away. Thus, sometimes you'll get waves of meat followed by more waves of meat, and then difficult to kill birds, one after another.
That's why I agree on embarking on Wilderness. They will always have predators (but at least not as big as Untamed Wilderness), that will always bear some bone and meat. So, besides a kind of animal that may or may not bear meat (passive animals, that may be too small to butcher), you will get one that will always do (because if they are big enough to fight, they are big enough to be butchered).
Post by: fedobear on May 03, 2014, 12:02:24 pm
demons and creatures:
gorgon style creature that can petrify. Perhaps permanent petrification would be OP unless the cost is high or only works against weak opponents, so maybe temporary?
bonus points if it spawns a "statue" mob on top of the afflicted creature (the way that control crystals are technically creatures), that when destroyed/shattered kills the mob it's linked to. (obviously this statue disappears when the petrification ends. I dont know though, knowing DF, it might already have creatures in that petrify you, and you can turn a creature into a certain material like you can have glass titans which are frail)
Post by: Zhorker on May 03, 2014, 02:19:46 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on May 03, 2014, 02:22:02 pm
What is a good way to get drink as warlocks? Bloodwine is inefficient and tedious to mass produce. Is surface crops the way to go here?
Warlocks are fine with water. I usually just use a well. Surface crops would probably work pretty well too.
Post by: Zhorker on May 03, 2014, 02:35:20 pm
Warlocks are fine with water. I usually just use a well. Surface crops would probably work pretty well too.Ah, alright. Thanks :3
Post by: RodriguesSting on May 03, 2014, 03:29:16 pm
Ghouls will stay, at most, three or four levels underground in very compact rooms (3 squares at most), with various exits to the ground level (inside the walls of the complex, of course).
Skeletons will... well, work, at the deep underground (rock layer) or patrol around the fort. I don't need to care too much about them, and I am glad for it.
Now, tell me: how exigent are ghouls in the matter of their accommodations? Can I make them happy with minimal infrastructure?
Post by: Arcvasti on May 03, 2014, 03:32:32 pm
Now, tell me: how exigent are ghouls in the matter of their accommodations? Can I make them happy with minimal infrastructure?
I usually give them rooms full of black ethereal stuff in soil layers. They actually tantrum normally like dwarves, but I just like oppressing my ghouls.
Post by: Omnicast on May 03, 2014, 04:19:47 pm
Now... As for my earlier modding attempt... Are hulking black barghests the same as the one some warlock embarks get to take in the beginning?
Post by: GunnerX on May 04, 2014, 05:21:58 am
1st fort: evil embark == no butchering, also gargoyles make poor prey.
2nd fort, 4 skele and 3 ghouls embark doesn't work. (haven't seen this problem since V4j).
3rd fort: no skeles, tantrum spiral after ghoul coal dust deaths.
4th fort: abandoned on 4j release
5th fort: skeleton miners "lost" to obsidian farming accident. smelted enough malachite to create 27 slag, 4 copper, and 1 orichalcum bars. Not enough metal to make a forge and pick, though as an afterthought, if I had forbid 2 copper prior to making an anvil it might have been recoverable.
6th fort: 3 cougars and 5 zombies swept over and waterfall, zombies drowned(?) cougars didn't. cougars got stuck, no more wildlife...
7th fort: zombies/ghouls stuck in endless wrestling match with armadillos (grabs shell, lets go of shell, ad nauseum.) Note these are the same zombies that had previously shook a bunch of sun bears in half.
8th fort: crashing
9th fort: 1st siege
10th forts: first siege, (damn dwarves and their metal)
11th fort: Murdered by Sasquatch
12th fort: wildlife in the first 3 seasons was limited to drakes, and flying creatures. I got a total of 1 soul from a passing kestrel before wandering drakes murdered all my necromancers and half my ghouls. And that was a calm biome XD
General opinion: Warlocks need some better form of soul/meat/bone farming other than hunting with it's RNG fiat. Personally, I think a limited selection of always available pets would be helpful. After a quick look though raws Blood goats, ravens (+nest boxes and something to do with the feathers), grave cats (with vermin hunting enabled) barghests, and maybe terror bird, nightmares and some sort of wool produce would be ideal.
Post by: Omnicast on May 04, 2014, 06:06:19 am
Get bones, build bone crafter, build slabs/coffins, build more graveyards, scour old corpses, scour souls, build skeletons to scour for bones and souls, rinse and repeat. Of course skeletons needs leather to assemble you'll need to kill or butcher something for that.
As for meat... I've been trying to put the Barghests into the Demonic Attorney for 5 souls. Just to be used as a meat/leather source. Not sure if it works yet... I hope it does...
Post by: Meph on May 04, 2014, 06:23:49 am
A map wide "storm" that only affects flyers sounds perfect to get rid of the pesky one-bird-blocking-wildlife.
Remember that you can also hunt in the caverns, why did no one mention that? Cavern One is relatively harmless.
Warlocks cant plant/farm wood like other races, its ibtended. They are not the farming type.
Early meat/bone source: Butcher your Mephits. The scales make armor for your Ghouls.
I plan to make prisoners convertible to Warlocks, so that you can try all castes.
Butchering your own civ members is theoretically possible, but only with dfhack and will lead to Ghosts. Not good.
Fedobear: Good suggestions overall,.but one thing I have to say: Warlocks can already learn the paralyse/petrify spell. ;)
Anything I forgot? Oh yeah, If you want an easy embark, embark on a tomb or necromancers tower. Instant army of allies on the map. :)
Voodoo Ghouls... Why not.
Graphics are not tied to caste, but noble position and skill. Thats why Warlocks, Ghouls and Skelwtons all have such specific skill sets.
All of them can do all labors btw, they simply dont get any Xp for most of them. But even Waocks or Skelwtons can butcher and tan, they simply stay "dabbling" and never become a butcher or tanner. But they will do the work.
Post by: RodriguesSting on May 04, 2014, 10:08:04 am
Post by: Meph on May 04, 2014, 11:01:09 am
Post by: fedobear on May 04, 2014, 01:05:42 pm
Fedobear: Good suggestions overall,.but one thing I have to say: Warlocks can already learn the paralyse/petrify spell. ;)
A minion that can do petrification without needing training might be an alternative to say people who dont have that library wing ready or don't have the spell reagents.
Warlocks cant plant/farm wood like other races, its ibtended. They are not the farming type.
what about the rest of the plants (strawberry, blade grass, etc)? they are not only available at embark but they are quite farmable.
I wouldn't mind warlocks not being able to do large amounts of surface or food farming, what about an expansion of the "evil plants" and farming mechanics in return for removing surface plants farmability?
I do like the idea of a warlock carefully tending a garden full of weeds and deathly herbs, if so inclined.
Was fiddling with the idea of an "evil" garden requiring an "evil soil". What about special plants that require blood to grow?
There's the issue that blood is a liquid, so maybe a workshop task to create "blood slurry/paste/cake" out of potash and blood, then spreading it over a field, or even a special alternative "blood farm plot". Either way, with blood fertilization or not, more fungi would be interesting.
Talking about fungi, maybe grafting mushrooms onto a ghoul would be an idea, integrated into the "adding extra arms" mechanic. Accentuates the idea of "living rotting beings". Could either raise farming skill or do minor AoE that causes winded in battle.
Anyhow, thanks for looking through our suggestions and reading them, looking forward to the update!
Post by: oldark on May 04, 2014, 01:34:37 pm
Post by: Omnicast on May 04, 2014, 02:37:01 pm
Well what about reworking the prisoner system into a slave system? Too many prisoner/slaves with weapons laying around causes them to rebel. Loyal slaves transforms into servants which doesn't rebel, but require meager quarters and some basic stuff. Slaves will try to run away if given the chance (off map).
Slaves/servants do all the hauling instead of warlocks/ghouls/skeletons or the zombie hauler change. This seems to fit better than souless zombies doing hauler work.
Post by: Arcvasti on May 04, 2014, 04:38:28 pm
I started my first warlock fort last night and was wondering alternative ways to acquire anvils. I went from the 'getting started' section of the manual that all I needed to bring was Food/Drinks and spent the rest of my points on blocks for making a palisade. I couldn't find a way to create any form of axe or pick and ended up dieing on the surface not long after the 2nd year with no traders.
I always bring 5 anvils with me. Boneforge can make cheap axes and picks, but requires two anvils. Smelter can make anvils from enough metal bars. It seems like the only way to do a no pick & no anvil embark would be to use emissary to summon enemies, kill them and melt their weapons into metal you'd turn into anvils/picks. Just start with a pick. Also, can't you do the whole "make a carpenters workshop out of your wagon, then make a wooden training axe from the rest of the wagon then cut tress with the training axe" thing?
Post by: oldark on May 04, 2014, 05:46:11 pm
Post by: Kiefatar on May 04, 2014, 09:44:39 pm
Post by: GunnerX on May 05, 2014, 08:15:01 pm
Post by: fedobear on May 06, 2014, 10:56:05 am
where do I store it and why is it useful?
Post by: Meph on May 06, 2014, 11:00:42 am
Post by: Kiefatar on May 06, 2014, 11:33:32 am
That 6pt malachite ore only has a 20% chance of giving you a bar without an ore processor. Buying the bars for 10pts each is much more cost effective.
Negative. You get at least one bar per ore. The ore processor produces pure chunks of the metal, which produce multiple bars. I've smelted 20 pieces of malachite ore and gotten at least 20 bars of copper. A whole lot of slag too though.
Post by: Meph on May 06, 2014, 11:44:32 am
Post by: Kiefatar on May 06, 2014, 01:01:48 pm
Post by: Omnicast on May 07, 2014, 12:59:16 pm
I usually just bunch them as close as possible, but it seems like there should be a better method. Been trying to find a good design recently.
Also is there a need for mine carts? It doesn't seem like it does it...?
Post by: blapnk on May 07, 2014, 11:28:15 pm
Also bismuthite makes just as good anvils if made at the forge at half the price of malachite.
Post by: Arcvasti on May 07, 2014, 11:33:43 pm
Post by: hiphop38 on May 11, 2014, 02:40:40 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on May 11, 2014, 04:08:11 pm
So question about reviving charachters. Have two dead warlocks, and I am trying to revive them, Ran the reaction twice, with only warlocks able to work at the necro alter, but no revived locks. I am sure that the reactions ran because I lost the three souls that It takes. Do the corpses need to be close to the Altar for it to work like it does for the skelies?
I've never had to run the resurrection reaction, but the corpses should be ON TOP of the Altar[On the same tile as the Necromancer running the reaction] for best results and its works erratically, so run it a bunch more times just in case[10-15 is about right].
Post by: Shardey on May 12, 2014, 10:09:15 pm
Every time a new version/patch is released, we should have a post here saying 'A new patch was released, posts after this message concern patch XYZ'
Of course I realize not all posts would concern the new patch immediately, but still, the notification would definitely help. Not everyone thinks to mention
the version they are running when reporting anomalies and posing questions about various things.
Would make the thread more readable later one, I think.
Post by: Meph on May 13, 2014, 07:52:30 am
Suggestion: Use prisoner in reaction as reagent to lure caravans. "Bait caravan with a human hostage" ... caravan spawns to trade for the prisoner, gets ambushed and killed by zombies. :)
That gives the raiding system more to do.
And I think I should make brains be spawned from butchering again. Currently they give generic meat, but they could be used for zombies or upgrades somehow. Eat brain = Gain skill.
Post by: Slavmeister on May 13, 2014, 10:41:26 pm
It gives the option to excavate stone but the remaining reactions are red, stating that I require "Archeologist Supplies"
It's also worth noting that it requires 4 stone blocks to build, instead of 5 with the journal, abacus and hourglass it is supposed to require.
In addition, all warlock illumination, not just the pentagram, require nothing to build.
Post by: kizucha on May 15, 2014, 10:42:22 am
Thank you for answers. :)
Post by: Omnicast on May 15, 2014, 07:28:51 pm
Put the crafter shop next to it so they don't have to walk very far to get clay. Then just have them make infinite clay hourglasses.
Post by: kizucha on May 16, 2014, 02:35:39 am
Thank you for the tip.^^
Post by: Omnicast on May 16, 2014, 03:27:59 pm
Seems kinda silly that sand can't be stored in barrels/bins/jugs/large pots. Okay maybe bins shouldn't be able to store it... Maybe only liquid containers?
Post by: Meph on May 17, 2014, 06:35:07 am
Post by: Omnicast on May 17, 2014, 03:07:48 pm
Post by: mikael grey on May 18, 2014, 04:08:20 pm
A Thunderbird showed up, and surprisingly he seemed to take offence at the human siege that was camping outside my tower, after a rather short fight, I finished off the humans, butchered the birds corpse, and figuring I have nothing better to do with the soul, I used it to ressurect the Thunderbird. Now all is fun and games, he became my 'pet', tame and all, friendly and all that, but he seems to be growing thirsty. Up to the point of being dehydrated right now. Since he doesnt seem to be interested in booze, and there is no water on the map, I am afraid that he will soon die, is that intended behavior?
And a bug report, related to the topic.
I found a tear of arnok somewhere (archeology, or digging, not sure, didnt pay attention), so I figured I will build a well and make a pool for it to drink from. But the well seems to not be working.
The skeleton runs the reaction and nothing happens. Checking dfhack this messege pops up:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, I seem to have some issues with learning spells, the reaction runs just fine, but there was no syndrome added according to therapist, and the warlock in question didnt use the spell in combat, could it be possible that the reaction 'missed'? Since he was my overlord with over 7k agility. There was also a bug in the arcane missile raws, with the gold dust, it called twice for gold2 instead of gold2 and gold3.
Apart from those issues, I do love the Warlocks, great job on them Meph, I just wish I could make more squads, like one Sword skeleton squad, one Crossbow squad and so on, having only one cryptlord is a bit limiting. And sacrificing a warlock for a banner is a very high price, since I have a total of 4, sending one to their death seems unwise...
Post by: BlackFlyme on May 18, 2014, 04:42:04 pm
I noticed some wierd behavior of a ressurected Megabeast. Game version v.4j, windows 7 os.
A Thunderbird showed up, and surprisingly he seemed to take offence at the human siege that was camping outside my tower, after a rather short fight, I finished off the humans, butchered the birds corpse, and figuring I have nothing better to do with the soul, I used it to ressurect the Thunderbird. Now all is fun and games, he became my 'pet', tame and all, friendly and all that, but he seems to be growing thirsty. Up to the point of being dehydrated right now. Since he doesnt seem to be interested in booze, and there is no water on the map, I am afraid that he will soon die, is that intended behavior?
I can only really answer this first one.
This is likely not intended. It's an issue with creatures that are capable of speech.
They will need to eat and drink. Eating is fine, and they will take food with little problem, but they are incapable of using wells or drinking from barrels, which will cause them to dehydrate unless there is a body of water somewhere on the map.
You could try to breach the caverns in search of water down there, or you could go into the raws of your save and give thunderbirds [NO_EAT] and [NO_DRINK].
Post by: dukea42 on May 19, 2014, 08:05:51 am
Post by: mikael grey on May 19, 2014, 08:20:35 am
About the spells, I suspect it might be the same issue I had with rockmage advancing to the next level, and aparently his stone shield blocking the syndrome, or something like that. As I said, I only tried it with the one warlock that has insane agility before the fort fell due to some !!FUN!! with fire. Sadly warlocks are not fireproof :-(.
On the suggestions topic, some way to get more warlocks would be nice, might next fort got 2. Which makes any banners from Grand Convocation a big NO. Maybe use megabest souls + some mundane souls + some meat/bones/totem to spawn a new warlock? Or at least let us create the banners from megabeast souls.
Post by: Meph on May 19, 2014, 11:38:29 am
Post by: Samarkand on May 19, 2014, 08:27:08 pm
I can't get my warlocks to store souls in hourglasses. Have hourglasses, have souls, and have a soul syphon. Praying labor is enabled.
Any suggestions?
Post by: Arcvasti on May 19, 2014, 08:32:52 pm
Not sure if there is a gameplay question thread for Warlocks, so I'll ask this here.
I can't get my warlocks to store souls in hourglasses. Have hourglasses, have souls, and have a soul syphon. Praying labor is enabled.
Any suggestions?
You need Sorcery labour. Under misc labours.
Post by: omniclasm on May 19, 2014, 08:53:44 pm
Trying to sort out jobs based on caste before anything, trying to assign skeletons to specific workshops so they can be upgraded, trying to maintain control of the skeletons so they don't go stupid and leave the military...just so much micro.
I wish the reactions that "target" specific units could be done like engraving slabs. Open a list of names, select from that list, then the reaction targets that unit, rather than having to have them standing on top of the workshop at the time it completes.
Post by: Samarkand on May 19, 2014, 09:21:10 pm
You need Sorcery labour. Under misc labours.Thank you much. That fixed it.
Post by: Meph on May 20, 2014, 01:50:43 am
I really want to like Warlocks, I'm super intrigued by the magical parts of this whole mod...but Warlocks just have so much micromanaging.Are you using workshop profiles? Because you do just pick a name of the list that way.
Trying to sort out jobs based on caste before anything, trying to assign skeletons to specific workshops so they can be upgraded, trying to maintain control of the skeletons so they don't go stupid and leave the military...just so much micro.
I wish the reactions that "target" specific units could be done like engraving slabs. Open a list of names, select from that list, then the reaction targets that unit, rather than having to have them standing on top of the workshop at the time it completes.
Post by: Morn on May 24, 2014, 11:41:35 am
Also are there any tricks to grinding chrome, because that didn't work for me either (didn't use burrows, had multiple chrome bars).
Additionally, both learn arcane missile and arcane armor are missing
[REAGENT:gold3:150:POWDER_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:GOLD],
under the third gold, I don't know if that has any effect though.
Also was the slade boulder spell changed or have specific requirements because they didn't use that either.
Post by: Arcvasti on May 24, 2014, 02:06:57 pm
2: I thought that you ground chromite[The ore] into chrome dust. Not the bars.
3: The arcane missile and arcane armour ARE probably bugged.
4: The spells gained from the Warlock Staff and Wraithblade don't work because bugs.
Post by: Morn on May 24, 2014, 02:51:02 pm
2. In the Ore shredder it has an option for chrome bars but it doesn't let me shred them.
3. I think the issue comes from the bag for the gold not being present in the raws, I'll gen a new fort and check.
4. ok, good to know.
I guess I tried to teach them to my overlord not a regular warlock. Also on the grinding, I also cannot grind wolfram (ore or bars) and Mithril bars. Looking at the raws, Mithril has [REAGENT:A:150:BAR:NONE:NONE:NONE][REACTION_CLASS:MITHRIL], instead of [REAGENT:A:150:BAR:NONE:INORGANIC:MITHRIL], all the ones I can't get to work have this, so I believe this to be the issue.
Except Mithril ore has [REAGENT:A:1:BOULDER:NONE:NONE:NONE][REACTION_CLASS:MITHRIL], and it works. But wolfram has the same and none of the reactions work for me. Chrome works the same way as Mithril.