You can't compare Minecraft to Dwarf Fortress..Depends what you're after. If you're into crafting and shaping worlds or megaprojects or the whole survival experience thing you can definitely compare the two. Not that I think threads like this are massively helpful.
1. subjective advantageYou actually make a pretty good point. I like it mainly for playing with friends. However, dwarf fortress is still, in my opinion, superior.
2. results of being the third largest game on earth with a userbase primarily made up of children
3. subjective advantage
4. no, I actually disagree with this; you lose the entire world with Minecraft, while in DF you just lose some people and keep the world (thus "losing is fun")
5. no comment
Here's a couple advantages for Minecraft:
1. You don't need experience for Minecraft.
You just pick up whatever you have and play it. There are mods available that require more investment and experience, and the gap between uncreative/unskilled and creative/skilled people is gigantic, but anyone can play and enjoy and appreciate the difficulty inherent in some of the crazier stuff.
2. Minecraft modding is far more open.
Simply, Minecraft is more moddable. Dwarf Fortress does not have anything even remotely resembling programming. Interactions are turing complete, but as a system it's harder to use than brainfuck and nearly impossible to actually get output that's really meaningful to people. Minecraft uses Java, a fairly popular programming language that you can write whatever in, and it has wonderfully skilled programmers working to make it even easier for you.
5: And we'll be paying 20$ in the future, once it hits version 1.0.0. Do you expect Toady to be giving the game away for free forever?
1: Please, unless you're just some kid running around with your fist in your mouth, you definitely need patience and experience for Minecraft. Please, go tell Captain Sparkles, the team at Smosh, and Pewdiepie how any six year old can do everything they've done, because you don't need experience for Minecraft. Tell the people who built Moria and Minas Tirith and massive cruisers from Star Wars that they needed no experience to do that. Or the fully automatic, self repairing castle designs. Yes, any six year old could do that.for number 1, I was referring how you can easily play minecraft, I like the difficulty in games, for 4 I was referring to how you can easily beat hardcore by using strategies that render the whole game tedious. I don't want to start another flame war, and yes, I was being an asshole. Although I never said sanity was involved in 2, and number five is something I don't understand, not all games turn into a paid game.
2: And we're the most normal people in the world? Any forum full of kids will be off a bit, but you just have to find the right thread for a similar experience to here. And please, we are probably more insane than them. It's one of the reasons I love this forum.
3: http://www.planetminecraft.com/project/recreation-of-godcrafts-moria-v3/
http://www.planetminecraft.com/project/osgiliath---ancient-capital-of-gondor/
I'm never going to see something like this from Dwarf Fortress. Please, tell me how those are not awesome? Minecract incredibly trumps Dwarf Fortress in building, and I actually prefer Dwarf Fortress. It's pretty much a fact though that Minecraft trumps Dwarf Fortress. Unless, you like flat.
4: So you take the easy way out. Not everyone does. Try not putting yourself in a hole that's lit up. Actually fight out on a mountainside all night. It's easy because you make it easy.
5: And we'll be paying 20$ in the future, once it hits version 1.0.0. Do you expect Toady to be giving the game away for free forever? There was a massive amount of time when Minecraft was free.
Do you expect Toady to be giving the game away for free forever?Yes, actually.
Minecraft uses Java...That's not necessarily an advantage.
Is there going to be a circlejerk or not? I don't have all day, you know.
Comparing DF and Minecraft is like comparing Bach and noise to find out which is in an absolute sense superior. That doesn't even include the obvious bias you have. People need to stop comparing DF to other games and trying to circlejerk about how DF is so much better and everybody else is an uneducated barbarian skrub.
Comparing DF and Minecraft is like comparing Bach and noise to find out which is in an absolute sense superior.This is kind of what I was trying to say above, I think it's weird to compare DF and Minecraft as if they're anything alike.
2. Minecraft modding is far more open.
Simply, Minecraft is more moddable. Dwarf Fortress does not have anything even remotely resembling programming. Interactions are turing complete, but as a system it's harder to use than brainfuck and nearly impossible to actually get output that's really meaningful to people. Minecraft uses Java, a fairly popular programming language that you can write whatever in, and it has wonderfully skilled programmers working to make it even easier for you.
This is actually very true. Mojang promised a modding API so many times but they never delivered.2. Minecraft modding is far more open.
Simply, Minecraft is more moddable. Dwarf Fortress does not have anything even remotely resembling programming. Interactions are turing complete, but as a system it's harder to use than brainfuck and nearly impossible to actually get output that's really meaningful to people. Minecraft uses Java, a fairly popular programming language that you can write whatever in, and it has wonderfully skilled programmers working to make it even easier for you.
This is really only because it's much easier to decompile Java bytecode back into Java (even if it's obfuscated) than it is to decompile machine code back into C++.
2. Minecraft modding is far more open.
Simply, Minecraft is more moddable. Dwarf Fortress does not have anything even remotely resembling programming. Interactions are turing complete, but as a system it's harder to use than brainfuck and nearly impossible to actually get output that's really meaningful to people. Minecraft uses Java, a fairly popular programming language that you can write whatever in, and it has wonderfully skilled programmers working to make it even easier for you.
This is really only because it's much easier to decompile Java bytecode back into Java (even if it's obfuscated) than it is to decompile machine code back into C++.
I think Slaves to Armok Chapter One has better graphics than Minecraft.
Ever since I've first seen minecraft, I got this image stuck in my head.
Dwarf fortress = Lego (+technics)
Minecraft = Duplo (you know, those extra big blocks for toddlers age 3)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The minecraft forums aren't flamewar paradise, as I should know from spending years on them. I can probably count the number of obscenities I have seen on two hands. Also, its biggest market is 15-18 year-olds, NOT children.When it first came out in alpha/beta it was marketed to 15-18 year olds. Now after youtubers like the Yogscast and Sparkle its for kids. Also if you can't find a minecraft tutorial you are probably too dumb to use the internet because there are millions.
Also... Minecraft is pretty dang hard without a tutorial. Not as bad as DF, but still quite hard.
He didn't say it was hard to find a tutorial. He said the game is hard without a tutorial.I'm sorry to say this but the Yogs largest audience is kids aged 10-15 these days. I know this because I'm in a school that is both high and middleschool and the 6th, 7th, and 8th graders all rage at me when I mention someone better than them.
Also, are we watching the same Yogscast? Because if I had kids I sure as hell wouldn't let them watch that.
So your basing the entire fan base off of a few kids? I've met one person under 16 who watches Yogscast.I'm not bashing all Yognaughts (as I still watch some of the Yogs. Mainly sips and the hat gang.) But the majority of the fanbase I've seen on Youtube and IRL is fanbois under 16. The only ones I know of that are 16 and above are on the subreddit.
Let's get back on topic shall we? Minecraft is better than DF in one way. Multiplayer. You can play with friends. That's it. Survival is too easy and hardcore is a joke. Sure you can build stuff in 3D but in DF you can control the world. Also I can kill dragons with a giants corpse. I don't you can do that in Minecraft.Do I have to quote my rant again or did you miss it the first time?
This is actually very true. Mojang promised a modding API so many times but they never delivered.2. Minecraft modding is far more open.
Simply, Minecraft is more moddable. Dwarf Fortress does not have anything even remotely resembling programming. Interactions are turing complete, but as a system it's harder to use than brainfuck and nearly impossible to actually get output that's really meaningful to people. Minecraft uses Java, a fairly popular programming language that you can write whatever in, and it has wonderfully skilled programmers working to make it even easier for you.
This is really only because it's much easier to decompile Java bytecode back into Java (even if it's obfuscated) than it is to decompile machine code back into C++.
Just saying something that someone doesn't agree with wont do anything to convince them. If I sat here all day, saying "You don't play Dwarf Fortress." would that make you think you don't?There is a difference between facts and opinions.
this thread is so upper boards
1: Please, unless you're just some kid running around with your fist in your mouth, you definitely need patience and experience for Minecraft. Please, go tell Captain Sparkles, the team at Smosh, and Pewdiepie how any six year old can do everything they've done, because you don't need experience for Minecraft. Tell the people who built Moria and Minas Tirith and massive cruisers from Star Wars that they needed no experience to do that. Or the fully automatic, self repairing castle designs. Yes, any six year old could do that.
I prefer the tile based graphics of DF over the voxels of Minecraft, and I prefer running a crew of computerized builders over a group of human comrades whose artistic vision could butt into mine. This is, for ME, the reason DF is superior to Minecraft. If I had uncreative friends who were happy letting me lead, and cared to drop a few twenties to get us the game, I might be tempted to start on it. But the graphics still annoy me.
I don't even know why people bother with these sorts of threads. I can understand starting a thread talking about why you PREFER this game over others, since that tells Toady what he's doing right, but stating that this game beats out another hands down and should for everybody is just a waste of space, given that every person has their own opinion.
Remember, these kind of threads lower Bay12's reputation as a whole. I know people who refuse to sign up to the forums because they've witnessed the "y df is superir to x" or the "y bay12 is teh smartest forum ^_^". Both the lower and upper boards are guilty making of these threads.This right here. Elitist assholes aren't liked and we don't want that reputation.
What do you people have against stagnant things... :'(A stagnant community will soon be a dead community. No offense to you.
Submit a message to ThreeToe about it and get his thoughts. He should be able to find a proper place to post it.Will do. Thanks.
WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO HATE DWARF FORTRESS BECAUSE OF US I full heartedly second the locking of "DF is better than X" threads as routine.
Also all creators of these threads should get a message from a mod saying if they do it again they'll be banned. DF is niche enough without people thinking its fans are mean. We need the community to grow not stagnate.
Okay, nobody likes these threads but this seems a little hyperactive.
Gamers aren't seen like that anymore.