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Dwarf Fortress => DF General Discussion => Topic started by: Pseudopuppet on December 02, 2015, 09:09:13 pm

Title: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Pseudopuppet on December 02, 2015, 09:09:13 pm
Anyone else getting absurd amounts of horses in their worlds?

Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Admiral Obvious on December 02, 2015, 09:11:18 pm
I noticed it in adventure mode, as well as the fact that both of my starting animals for my forts twice were horses.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Max™ on December 02, 2015, 09:15:22 pm
Yeah, I've gotten used to all of the animals I bump into when I drop out of travel mode being horses.

It was kinda weird at first, then scary finding them in the tunnels between fortresses, now it's almost familiar.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Pseudopuppet on December 02, 2015, 09:18:32 pm
There's a large amount of them in each of almost every settlement on my worlds

(http://i.imgur.com/CmsUHMD.png)
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on December 02, 2015, 10:20:06 pm
Ha ha. Not my imagination after all. Was browsing Legends Viewer and came up with these results from a couple of my Dwarf civs:

civ 1: 21200 horses, 2467 Dwarves
civ 2: 42642 horses, 5914 Dwarves
civ 3: 134800 horses, 3772 Dwarves (!)

My theory is that Toady has made all mounts inedible to ensure goblins have enough beakdogs to ride (he said part of the problem was that initial population was low and the goblins butchered the rest). Human civs also have a lot more horses.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Putnam on December 03, 2015, 01:57:36 am
Oh, that explains why I could make a horse adventurer.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on December 03, 2015, 02:11:40 am
So many horses that, against all the odds one or two became civilised like an animal man does?
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Admiral Obvious on December 03, 2015, 02:31:33 am
Ha ha. Not my imagination after all. Was browsing Legends Viewer and came up with these results from a couple of my Dwarf civs:

civ 1: 21200 horses, 2467 Dwarves
civ 2: 42642 horses, 5914 Dwarves
civ 3: 134800 horses, 3772 Dwarves (!)

My theory is that Toady has made all mounts inedible to ensure goblins have enough beakdogs to ride (he said part of the problem was that initial population was low and the goblins butchered the rest). Human civs also have a lot more horses.

I will note that I butchered a horse in both adventure mode, and fortress mode, and it was still edible, so I don't think that's the issue. I think it's something involving a "how common is it" thing in the raws.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on December 03, 2015, 04:02:31 am
Must be just the population boost then. Start off ridiculously high, see if that encourages riders, then gradually work down to something more realistic. Or something.

Anyone been attacked by mounted goblins/elves/humans yet?
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Trif on December 03, 2015, 06:04:33 am
My very first adventurer started in a dwarven fortress filled with horses everywhere. Incredibly laggy.

The population numbers are interesting. If a site has horses, it's 3600 most of the time. Sometimes 2600, sometimes 100, but 3600 pops up very often. Even in towns like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/EZl1lfX.png)

Just imagine that place. I don't know if PETA would be enraged or proud.

Non-edit: okay, this is just ridiculous:
(http://i.imgur.com/Rw5yS9c.png)

I don't think the goblins really own this place - it's more like they're tolerated there.
And I guess two of the horses must have left to make a new outpost for the glory of all of horsekind. Graze the earth!
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: miauw62 on December 03, 2015, 08:41:57 am
DF: Graze The Earth Edition
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Daniel the Finlander on December 03, 2015, 09:48:27 am
GRAZE THE EARTH

Has anybody filed a bug report yet?
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: King_of_Baboons on December 03, 2015, 01:19:53 pm
Can confirm:

(https://i.imgur.com/rlTqORf.png)

I'm pretty sure that something related to how civs work now is causing this.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Ysyua on December 03, 2015, 01:46:48 pm
Can confirm:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm pretty sure that something related to how civs work now is causing this.

Might be related to how Toady fixed mounts for goblins. He might have made mounts more common across the board and now we have horses galore.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Linkxsc on December 03, 2015, 01:49:22 pm
Bit off topic here. But does this by extension mean that human traders show up with tons of horses for sale?

And if that were true, could I catch some other "mount" type creatures, sell them to the humans or whoever, the humans then breed them as mounts (and not have to deal with grazing/feeding as I would have to) and then start bringing those animals back for sale in bulk again?
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: miauw62 on December 03, 2015, 02:05:44 pm
Can confirm:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm pretty sure that something related to how civs work now is causing this.

Might be related to how Toady fixed mounts for goblins. He might have made mounts more common across the board and now we have horses galore.
The amount of horses seems to almost always be a round number like 3600 (or something very close to that, like 3598), though. I don't think the explanation is quite that simple.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Ysyua on December 03, 2015, 02:11:53 pm
Can confirm:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm pretty sure that something related to how civs work now is causing this.

Might be related to how Toady fixed mounts for goblins. He might have made mounts more common across the board and now we have horses galore.
The amount of horses seems to almost always be a round number like 3600 (or something very close to that, like 3598), though. I don't think the explanation is quite that simple.

True. I still can't help but feel like it's in some way related. If there was some sort of hardcoded mount fix I can see it spilling over into other civ populations and blammo! Perfectly rounded horse populations in the thousands.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Fniff on December 03, 2015, 04:59:30 pm
Bugs from Normal Games: "The game stutters for six seconds before crashing."
Bugs from Broken Games: "The lighting is weird and the characters have no faces."
Bugs from Dwarf Fortress: "The horses outnumber us. I have seen settlements with a thousand horses to a man. I have seen them in the deepest caverns. They are everywhere. Liberate te ex equus."
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Urlance Woolsbane on December 03, 2015, 05:04:43 pm
Yeah, I thought the herd of horses I saw outside that mead hall were unusual.

Now to see if I can make Forgotten Beasts as ubiquitous!

Bugs from Normal Games: "The game stutters for six seconds before crashing."
Bugs from Broken Games: "The lighting is weird and the characters have no faces."
Bugs from Dwarf Fortress: "The horses outnumber us. I have seen settlements with a thousand horses to a man. I have seen them in the deepest caverns. They are everywhere. Save us."
Sigged!


Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Fniff on December 03, 2015, 05:09:34 pm
Sigged!
Ah, always an honor. Thank you.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Shonai_Dweller on December 03, 2015, 05:18:21 pm
Can confirm:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm pretty sure that something related to how civs work now is causing this.

Might be related to how Toady fixed mounts for goblins. He might have made mounts more common across the board and now we have horses galore.
The amount of horses seems to almost always be a round number like 3600 (or something very close to that, like 3598), though. I don't think the explanation is quite that simple.
There's probably a horse population cap depending on the size of the site to prevent a world destroying horsplosion.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: BoogieMan on December 03, 2015, 05:26:23 pm
I saw a huge herd of them in adventure mode. More so than any other single type of creature I've ever seen at once by far.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: TheBiggerFish on December 03, 2015, 05:27:05 pm
PTW.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: SQman on December 03, 2015, 06:02:00 pm
Last version in its early days had exploding birds, gods that woyld destroy the world every time you tried to speak to them, and shields breaking the game if you used them to block spit.

Now we have 3600 horses and WORSHIPPING!.


I for one welcome our new equine overlords.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: DrunkGamer on December 03, 2015, 06:28:13 pm
The bronies have won

Abandon all hope
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 03, 2015, 06:47:19 pm
I was stalked by a horse recruit and his band of other horses that I encountered in a town.  They followed me out into the wilderness and just stood and watched as I was attacked and eaten by dingos.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Ysyua on December 03, 2015, 08:54:52 pm
Last version in its early days had exploding birds, gods that woyld destroy the world every time you tried to speak to them, and shields breaking the game if you used them to block spit.

Now we have 3600 horses and WORSHIPPING!.


I for one welcome our new equine overlords.


This version, in short:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: TheBiggerFish on December 03, 2015, 08:56:23 pm
Andrew Hussie would love this edition.

*insert link to horschestra here*
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: ShinQuickMan on December 03, 2015, 08:58:30 pm
I was stalked by a horse recruit and his band of other horses that I encountered in a town.  They followed me out into the wilderness and just stood and watched as I was attacked and eaten by dingos.

(http://49.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcrx5wu0lu1rq07zio1_500.gif)
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: NAV on December 03, 2015, 09:07:23 pm
Reminds me of the giant mosquito swarms a few years ago.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Untrustedlife on December 03, 2015, 11:26:47 pm
HAha, I noticed that..they make good training and selling their pelts is always a good thing.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Visus Draconis on December 04, 2015, 03:53:33 am
Just be glad there aren't any Mongols riding those horses, ready to pillage and burn.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Bumber on December 06, 2015, 08:18:03 am
Butter lettuce party. That is all.

*Leafs* *Leaves*
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Honalululand on December 06, 2015, 03:39:49 pm
Reminds me of the giant mosquito swarms a few years ago.
Depending on where, though, that could be quite realistic.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Insanegame27 on December 07, 2015, 02:46:16 am
Holy shit. This is just (even by our standards) ridiculous. 3600 horses to a single goblin?
Has someone made them playable yet? The horses, that is.

Also, to curb lag, has anyone edited their raws to remove a vital organ / whatever to kill them?
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: King Mir on December 07, 2015, 02:55:42 am
Reminds me of the giant mosquito swarms a few years ago.
Depending on where, though, that could be quite realistic.
It wasn't, because they were swarms of giant mosquitoes.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Insanegame27 on December 07, 2015, 02:59:16 am
Reminds me of the giant mosquito swarms a few years ago.
Depending on where, though, that could be quite realistic.
It wasn't, because they were swarms of giant mosquitoes.


*Cough cough something something Malaysia something something cough cough*
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Urlance Woolsbane on December 07, 2015, 04:24:10 am
Just a bit of data I collected from a world I genned:
Hillocks always have 3600 horses.
Hamlets always have 600, with the exception of one settlement, which had double that amount.
Forest Retreats always have 100, with the exceptions of two settlements, which had double that amount.
Fortresses are less predicable, although the numbers 450 and 1950 did repeat.

It may be a complete coincidence, but you'll notice there's a  progression from Forest Retreat to Hamlet to Hillock, where the previous amount is multiplied by 6.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 07, 2015, 06:27:52 am
There must be a logical reason.  For the giant mosquitoes, it wasn't a bug so much as an oversight in the raws, since mosquitoes come in huge numbers (being swarming vermin) their giant counterparts did as well.

Here, it seems to be a problem with mounts, I have heard other players having epidemics of camels and other mounts, but horses are the most common since every civ has them.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: ToadChild on December 07, 2015, 03:56:32 pm
My goblin sites have similar overpopulation on Trolls and Beak Dogs, although their numbers are not quite as perfectly round.

The elven forest retreats also seem to have precisely 100, 200, 300, etc. of a lot of animals, rather than odd amounts.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: ShinQuickMan on December 07, 2015, 10:07:18 pm
Holy shit. This is just (even by our standards) ridiculous. 3600 horses to a single goblin?
Has someone made them playable yet? The horses, that is.


Better. A rare glitch lets one play as horses without modding, as someone attested in the first page.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Max™ on December 08, 2015, 06:56:03 pm
Isn't this still the first page?
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: TheBiggerFish on December 08, 2015, 06:57:51 pm
Not for everybody.
25 ppp, this is page 2.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Reinhardt64 on December 11, 2015, 01:29:46 am
I know this is a few days late and Toady has already noted that it will be fixed in the next version, but somebody asked for some science so...

I removed the heart and brain tags from horses like someone suggested and generated 3 quick worlds. However the horse epidemic was still present. Keep in mind all I did was generate them and look through legends mode. I then added the aquatic tag and generated another world. The horses were still present. Confused, I made an adventurer and started out in one of the afflicted towns. I quickly began receiving huge amounts of "The stray horse has suffocated" notifications and found what is now a horse grave yard.

Which leaves me confused... with the hearts and brains gone and only being able to process oxygen in water shouldn't the horses not have even made it through world generation? Or does world generation not take that stuff into account?
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Urlance Woolsbane on December 11, 2015, 02:04:41 am
I know this is a few days late and Toady has already noted that it will be fixed in the next version, but somebody asked for some science so...

I removed the heart and brain tags from horses like someone suggested and generated 3 quick worlds. However the horse epidemic was still present. Keep in mind all I did was generate them and look through legends mode. I then added the aquatic tag and generated another world. The horses were still present. Confused, I made an adventurer and started out in one of the afflicted towns. I quickly began receiving huge amounts of "The stray horse has suffocated" notifications and found what is now a horse grave yard.

Which leaves me confused... with the hearts and brains gone and only being able to process oxygen in water shouldn't the horses not have even made it through world generation? Or does world generation not take that stuff into account?
I'm pretty sure that world-gen only cares about organs so far as combat is concerned. It's possible to make merman civs whose denizens suffocate the moment you come within shouting distance of them.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Insanegame27 on December 11, 2015, 03:24:03 am
Delete their RAWs entirely?
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Dozebôm Lolumzalìs on December 11, 2015, 04:09:46 pm
Won't work in an existing world, and GEEZ THAT IS OVERKILL.

Seriously, just remove [MOUNT] or whatever the tag is. Your dwarves sure aren't using them. Perhaps make a duplicate (RENAME THE DUPLICATE!) and give it to humans, giving it back the [MOUNT] tag.
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: Dozebôm Lolumzalìs on December 11, 2015, 04:10:34 pm
Not for everybody.
25 ppp, this is page 2.

Why doesn't everybody set it to the maximum setting?
Title: Re: Horse epidemic in .42.01
Post by: TheBiggerFish on December 11, 2015, 06:48:25 pm
Not for everybody.
25 ppp, this is page 2.

Why doesn't everybody set it to the maximum setting?
Because I think 50 ppp is a bit much.  Especially on my phone which is my main platform for B12ing.