Dwarf Fortress > DF Suggestions

Waste Issues (a compromise)

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shadowclasper:
We all know this age old argument. It is fiercely debatedbetween those who want it for "realism" and those who are dead against it. I'm actually in the latter camp, but considering the vote on the eternal suggestion thread has gotten to the point where it's rated as 18th (something I find untenable since that puts it ahead of all but ONE of the interface improvement suggestions), I thought it best to put in my two cents.

Before anyone says the "this has been done to death" comment, yes, I know, I just haven't seen any ideas that fit what I'm about to suggestion.

People have been acting like "waste" (eg: feces and urine) has to be treated like an object or fluid unit, like blood or water or magma... I fail to see why this has to be. Rather, a simple system would be having a building known as a Latrine that must be built over an empty hole with no significant amount of water in it (thus preventing us from having latrines by the wells <shudder>). A dwarf has to go do his business every so often, just like sleeping and eating, and should be as simple as going to the latrine, step in, done. Thoughts would be "Was unable to use a latrine and had to go outside" for the unhappy thought, and "Used a <insert quality here> Latrine". Simple as that. If you REALLY want to add some kind of disease aspect, simply have it so that if they're unable to get outside it has a chance to cause disease if left too long or something. Make it communicable, so that if some idiot manages to not put in a latrine and is besieged so his dwarves can't go outside, it acts as it would in a real siege situation with disease spreading due to ill waste management.

If you want these to be a little more useful, then simply have them placed over a field to act as automatic fertilizer (as if you has let the field lay fallow and mixed in potash or something, and to you nay-sayers, I might point out that certain civilizations such as feudal japan used human waste for such a purpose having little to no other sources :P)

Frankly, I'd rather the issue be left out ENTIRELY, since there's such a thing as "too much realism". But I prefer this to all the ideas that basically end up with players having crossed plumbing, poisoning their own wells, crap all over the fortress spreading disease and miasma, and generally leading to "FUN(TM)" before the first damn siege. The learning curve for the game is already so high that it's difficult to bring in new players, do we REALLY want to ask that it be increased even further by adding a MAJOR detriment to the game like this? Any newbies would find the usual suggested arrangement for plumbing (eg: having to set up flowing water under a latrine and having that water cause disease to those who drink from it) impossible to set up alongside getting interior water, basic defenses, and a farming operation moving, by simplifying it down to the level of something like "having to go to bed", with an added bonus of "farm plots under the latrine act as if they are always fertilized", gives us a level of realism, without increasing the learning curve by an unnecessarily large degree.

Once again, I'm suggesting this in the vein of "god damn, I really hope this never gets added, but if it HAS to be added at some point, let's mitigate the suckitude of it as best we can"

Draco18s:
In b4 "but then we can't use it as fertilizer, completely negating the whole reason I want it."

Which sums up the entire issue: the people who want it want to do things with it (i.e. everything compromised) and "build a latrine" doesn't even bother people who don't want it (i.e. nothing compromised).

shadowclasper:

--- Quote from: Draco18s on January 10, 2011, 01:35:00 pm ---In b4 "but then we can't use it as fertilizer, completely negating the whole reason I want it."

Which sums up the entire issue: the people who want it want to do things with it (i.e. everything compromised) and "build a latrine" doesn't even bother people who don't want it (i.e. nothing compromised).

--- End quote ---

You didn't read through my full statement. I said it could be placed over fields. In doing so it would act as if they were auto fertilized. Thus solving that particular issue. Similar work arounds could be made I'm SURE without actually having us spread freaking crap all over the damn fortress. EG: Dig hole in floor above fields, place latrine. Farm Plots within a certain radius count as always being fertilized.

In a similar vein, people who argue for "producing stuff for gun powder" well technically our waste piles where we dump goblin corpses should already be doing that >>; crap or not I believe. Or, if we insist on being PERFECTLY LITERAL, we make a similar reaction going on as with the farm plots. If placed above an area with rotting corpses, the Latrine causes the corpses to create salt peter crystals or whatever comes from that process and is used to make gun powder. Generally, it's an action similar to how a Well changes the amount of water below it and at the same time, causes dwarves to be less thirsty when around it.

shadowclasper:
<ignore this>

Silverionmox:
We already have mud, fat, blood, milk, animal extracts, miasma, goo, slime, ichor, vomit and pus. I fail to see how manure and/or urine are any worse. Just the possibility of a goblin making a Shawshank Redemption-style escape from your dungeon alone would justify their presence.

The game should work good with the dark side of a meal enabled. If somebody wants to do a censored version, be my guest.

Though to me, not acknowledging the consequences of a stay at the dining room is like hardcoding that cats and dogs can't be butchered.

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