Bay 12 Games Forum

Dwarf Fortress => DF Dwarf Mode Discussion => Topic started by: JacenHanLovesLegos on December 31, 2010, 05:00:10 pm

Title: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on December 31, 2010, 05:00:10 pm
You get this :
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yes, that is a cat surgeon. It's also a Hammercat, but that wasn't in the picture. Imagine a cat clawing away at a screaming dwarf, then later claiming it was 'Doing surgery'. This just made cats that much more evil. I also got a war cat. And a few animal trainer cats.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Mr. Argent on December 31, 2010, 05:05:24 pm
I intend to try adding [CAN_LEARN] to Fluffy Wamblers.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Internet Kraken on December 31, 2010, 05:17:56 pm
Yes, migrant animals capable of learning will have skills randomly assigned to them. Even if they can't actually learn those skills. There's an Earth Golem leatherworker living in Reveredtour.

I intend to try adding [CAN_LEARN] to Fluffy Wamblers.

Since they're vermin, it will either do nothing or make the game explode.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: GaxkangtheUnbound on December 31, 2010, 05:19:55 pm
Since they're vermin, it will either do nothing or make the game explode.
We'll have vermin ambushers killing dwarves and escaping because they teleport.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Bordellimies on December 31, 2010, 06:58:24 pm
Are there creatures that are easily accessible, don't have [CAN_LEARN] tag, but could use it?
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: twilightdusk on December 31, 2010, 07:04:21 pm
Anything can use the [CAN_LEARN] tag in so much as it will let them gain stats in fighting abilities. I don't think other races benefit at all otherwise, getting a hammercat is just the system thinking that any stat can be applied to any creature with [CAN_LEARN], it's the same reason you get invading trolls with various civilian job titles (I got a Troll Administrator once, gave me a good chuckle).
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Bordellimies on December 31, 2010, 07:50:30 pm
Anything can use the [CAN_LEARN] tag in so much as it will let them gain stats in fighting abilities. I don't think other races benefit at all otherwise, getting a hammercat is just the system thinking that any stat can be applied to any creature with [CAN_LEARN], it's the same reason you get invading trolls with various civilian job titles (I got a Troll Administrator once, gave me a good chuckle).

So [CAN_LEARN] is a good tag on war animals like elephants and dogs?
What about dragons, are they more Fun when they can learn? I mean, it'd be horrifying to be attacked by a dragon which has studied politics for 4 years.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: GaxkangtheUnbound on December 31, 2010, 08:02:30 pm
Anything can use the [CAN_LEARN] tag in so much as it will let them gain stats in fighting abilities. I don't think other races benefit at all otherwise, getting a hammercat is just the system thinking that any stat can be applied to any creature with [CAN_LEARN], it's the same reason you get invading trolls with various civilian job titles (I got a Troll Administrator once, gave me a good chuckle).

So [CAN_LEARN] is a good tag on war animals like elephants and dogs?
What about dragons, are they more Fun when they can learn? I mean, it'd be horrifying to be attacked by a dragon which has studied politics for 4 years.
FILIBUSTER!
*Smash*
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: iceball3 on December 31, 2010, 08:05:53 pm
Careful, you can't butcher anything with [CAN_LEARN].
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Untelligent on December 31, 2010, 08:17:45 pm
I also got a war cat. And a few animal trainer cats.

Good god man, cats training cats? That's like how every robot apocalypse starts. But with cats.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Jacob/Lee on December 31, 2010, 08:19:54 pm
"Meow meow, meow meow meow meow!"
*ACTIVATING CAT TRANSLATOR 5000*
"And remember, breed as much as possible! It annoys the butchers!"
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: iceball3 on December 31, 2010, 08:20:53 pm
"Meow meow, meow meow meow meow!"
*ACTIVATING CAT TRANSLATOR 5000*
"And remember, breed as much as possible! It annoys the butchers!"
Careful, you can't butcher anything with [CAN_LEARN].
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: GaxkangtheUnbound on December 31, 2010, 08:22:14 pm
"Meow meow, meow meow meow meow!"
*ACTIVATING CAT TRANSLATOR 5000*
"And remember, breed as much as possible! It annoys the butchers!"
Careful, you can't butcher anything with [CAN_LEARN].
"Meow meow!"
*ACTIVATING CAT TRANSLATOR 500*
"WE'RE INVINCIBLE!"
Butcher:"You're a loony."
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Jacob/Lee on December 31, 2010, 08:22:40 pm
I know you can't butcher anything with [CAN_LEARN], that is being said in the sense that it annoys the butchers because their ethics don't allow them to slaughter the cats.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: iceball3 on December 31, 2010, 08:27:14 pm
I know you can't butcher anything with [CAN_LEARN], that is being said in the sense that it annoys the butchers because their ethics don't allow them to slaughter the cats.
Ah, now it makes sense.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Ves on December 31, 2010, 09:23:48 pm
Can't you just adjust one of the tags on Dwarves making them willing to butcher creatures with [CAN_LEARN]?

(Which would also mean Elf Skull Totems again)
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: iceball3 on December 31, 2010, 09:24:41 pm
Can't you just adjust one of the tags on Dwarves making them willing to butcher creatures with [CAN_LEARN]?

(Which would also mean Elf Skull Totems again)
Which would also mean elf dwarves. (Elves are canniballs)
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Mr. Argent on December 31, 2010, 11:45:36 pm
Yes, migrant animals capable of learning will have skills randomly assigned to them. Even if they can't actually learn those skills. There's an Earth Golem leatherworker living in Reveredtour.

I intend to try adding [CAN_LEARN] to Fluffy Wamblers.

Since they're vermin, it will either do nothing or make the game explode.

I already took care of that, i had to to make it so i could train Hunting/war fluffy wamblers (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15096.msg1824218#msg1824218), which is sadly my greatest raw editing achievement. I'm trying to think of how i could implement the Slender Man as a megabeast, though.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: CinnibarMan on January 01, 2011, 02:10:34 am
I find the concept of a Hammercat most amusing for some reason.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: twilightdusk on January 01, 2011, 02:49:45 am
I find the concept of a Hammercat most amusing for some reason.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_OOy5b3i5kc4/SdepvazoxAI/AAAAAAAAAd8/qkJTFKVzSZA/s400/hammer+cat.jpg)
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Internet Kraken on January 01, 2011, 03:05:04 am
Careful, you can't butcher anything with [CAN_LEARN].


I thought that was [CAN_SPEAK]? I'm not entirely sure though, as the wiki doesn't say. I really wish Toady would just take the time to explain what every token does.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: doomdome on January 01, 2011, 04:09:58 am
If you still want to butcher them, change [EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:UNTHINKABLE] and [EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:UNTHINKABLE] To ACCEPTABLE in the dwarf section of entity_default.txt
Careful, you can't butcher anything with [CAN_LEARN].


I thought that was [CAN_SPEAK]? I'm not entirely sure though, as the wiki doesn't say. I really wish Toady would just take the time to explain what every token does.
I'm quite sure it can be either...
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: iceball3 on January 01, 2011, 11:52:45 am
If you still want to butcher them, change [EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:UNTHINKABLE] and [EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:UNTHINKABLE] To ACCEPTABLE in the dwarf section of entity_default.txt
Which would also mean elf dwarves. (Elves are canniballs)
It's by your own preference, but your dwarves are still being Elfy...
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on January 01, 2011, 11:57:58 am
Also, I believe you'd need to make [ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:ACCEPTABLE] or some such ethic tag.

Then again, this would also allow you to equip your dwarves with elf leather clothing.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: moki on January 01, 2011, 12:51:32 pm
Then again, this would also allow you to equip your dwarves with elf leather clothing.

So what exactly is the problem? ???
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on January 01, 2011, 12:57:06 pm
It is a benefit to counteract the intrinsic elfiness of such a culture.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: iceball3 on January 01, 2011, 01:01:24 pm
It is a benefit to counteract the intrinsic elfiness of such a culture.
Isn't the fact that elves eat elves sort of counteract that counteraction  in a way?
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Samuel on January 01, 2011, 01:18:27 pm
It is a benefit to counteract the intrinsic elfiness of such a culture.
Isn't the fact that elves eat elves sort of counteract that counteraction  in a way?

Remember, these are Dwarves. I think the dwarfiest thing they can do is just continually try to out-evil every other race.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Vorthon on January 01, 2011, 01:20:25 pm
It is a benefit to counteract the intrinsic elfiness of such a culture.
Isn't the fact that elves eat elves sort of counteract that counteraction  in a way?

Remember, these are Dwarves. I think the dwarfiest thing they can do is just continually try to out-evil every other race.

Or, you know, just out-insane every other race.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Nyxalinth on January 05, 2011, 12:08:50 am
WAR KITTENS?!

I am so doing this.  I want kitty artifacts!

this is a red leather jingle mousie created by Urist Mcdiamond.  All craftscatship is of the highest quality. 
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on January 05, 2011, 08:23:32 am
If you only want war kittens, add [TRAINABLE] to cats in the raw file Common Domestic.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Fredson on January 05, 2011, 10:34:04 am
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:ACCEPTABLE] will sadly lead to your dwarves making things like "Dwarf bone amulet" and such, too. Or at least they did this for me in 40d. It would be interesting to see what their ghosts think about this...
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: qoonpooka on January 05, 2011, 11:01:11 am
I'm unclear... can you actually assign labors/jobs to these animals? And/or equipment with gear?
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Nyxalinth on January 05, 2011, 01:42:12 pm
If you give a critter [CAN_LEARN], will they get artifact moods?
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: LordBistian on January 05, 2011, 02:08:54 pm
I think only the creatures of your civilisation can get moods.
I tested this extensively with Elf- and Human-pets.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on January 05, 2011, 02:13:00 pm
No moods, and you can't assign them labors.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Xenos on January 05, 2011, 03:49:02 pm
I think only the creatures of your civilisation can get moods.
I tested this extensively with Elf- and Human-pets.
It seems like i remember there being a value in the raws that allows a given to have moods.  without a certain tag then moods will never happen.  even if it is a dwarf.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Farmerbob on January 05, 2011, 09:30:10 pm
So...

When goblin snatchers manage to grab a couple of your [CAN_LEARN] kittens, and then after 20 years or so when the original village of goblins has died off, you get sieged by a mass of cats led by a few Cat Axelords?

I believe this can happen when dwarves are captured by goblin snatchers, correct?

Would the game allow the cats to come equipped with skills, armor, and weapons if they are generated as part of a siege?
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Wirevix on January 05, 2011, 10:40:38 pm
If you give the cat grasping parts, that is possible.  By default, I believe a cat has no [GRASP]-token'd body parts, so they cannot hold a weapon.  They can probably wear armor, though, unless their size is too small to allow even the smallest pieces.

There was a Cat Fortress mod for 40d, which made cats capable of doing all sorts of things.  It was pretty hilarious.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Fredson on January 06, 2011, 05:48:44 am
As far as I remember Toady gave their mouth the grasp-tag to stop the annoying cat bug from the 40d versions.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Max White on January 06, 2011, 06:00:19 am
No moods, and you can't assign them labors.

You can, but it requires a hack tool.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Wirevix on January 06, 2011, 06:28:37 am
As far as I remember Toady gave their mouth the grasp-tag to stop the annoying cat bug from the 40d versions.

Nope.  That was the work-around that players used to stop it.  Toady just fixed the bug at its source, presumably.  Cats use the same mouth as all other animals in 2010, and it does not have [GRASP].
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Max White on January 06, 2011, 06:31:49 am
Code: [Select]
[BODY:MOUTH]
[BP:MOUTH:mouth:STP][CONTYPE:HEAD][MOUTH][SMALL][EMBEDDED][APERTURE][CATEGORY:MOUTH]
[DEFAULT_RELSIZE:20]

No grip, although it would be cool to have it! Modding that it now so that I can hold axe in mouth.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Internet Kraken on January 06, 2011, 09:26:03 am
It's also worth mentioning that any tame creatures with [CAN_LEARN] (or again it might be [CAN_SPEAK]) living in your fort are sort of psuedo dwarves. They need to drink water when tamed, unlike all other animals. Their offspring are also seen as viable targets for kidnapping by goblin snatchers. One of these animal can even potentially become mayor of your fortress.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Xenos on January 06, 2011, 07:54:22 pm
Give cats natural metallic armor and throw them in your danger room.  Also allow their mouth and tail to grasp (shield in mouth, weapon in tail xD)  Have a cat based military.  You know, do the same with all tame animals xD send in the cats as shock troops to disrupt the archers then let loose the horses with their hooves of (actual) steel. xD
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: melomel on January 06, 2011, 11:38:09 pm
It's also worth mentioning that any tame creatures with [CAN_LEARN] (or again it might be [CAN_SPEAK]) living in your fort are sort of psuedo dwarves. They need to drink water when tamed, unlike all other animals. Their offspring are also seen as viable targets for kidnapping by goblin snatchers. One of these animal can even potentially become mayor of your fortress.

"Stray Mayor (Tame)" was the best mayor ever.

Also, applying [PET] to other speaking & learning critters gives interesting results...  Tigerman cubs skip the baby phase and go straight to child; tamed gnomes ignore their babies with disastrous results.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Hivemind on January 07, 2011, 03:52:40 am
Give cats natural metallic armor and throw them in your danger room.  Also allow their mouth and tail to grasp (shield in mouth, weapon in tail xD)  Have a cat based military.  You know, do the same with all tame animals xD send in the cats as shock troops to disrupt the archers then let loose the horses with their hooves of (actual) steel. xD

Add a resistance to heat and ability to breathe in magma. Send the kittens to hell, and have them take over.
Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Berserkenstein on January 07, 2011, 08:28:26 am
You know, this thread inspired me to experiment. 

All I did was add [Trainable] to Tigermen and luckily for me, the elven traders brought me some tigerman slaves in the spring!  :o
So I trained them into war Tigermen and started working on my fort.

I then get the 'THIEF! ...skulking filth!" message and this is what I saw on inspection:

(http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk40/Toughmeat48/Dwarf%20Fortress/WarTigerMayor.png)

Basically she breaks the kobold's shoulder with an arm lock, then breaks the foot with an ankle lock, smacks him and then stabs him to death with a crossbow bolt that was stuck in his body.

So I thought to myself, "Man... elves captured you?"

I wanted to do something special for her since it did such a good job, and then I noticed that my dwarves made her the mayor! :D

(http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk40/Toughmeat48/Dwarf%20Fortress/BomrekTigerMayor.png)

Unfortunately I embarked in a saltwater area and I noticed that there is only one place that my tigermen will drink and that is the small river U-bend on the max northeast corner of the map.

Anyone know a way I can get them to drink desalinated water underground?   




Title: Re: What Happens When You Give Cats [CAN_LEARN]
Post by: Sphalerite on January 07, 2011, 08:52:33 am
Anyone know a way I can get them to drink desalinated water underground?
You can either build a pump-powered desalination plant (pump filling a cistern made completely from constructed walls and floors) although in my experience those only seem to work reliably if all the water is above the level of the ocean.  Or, you can dig down deep enough to find cavern water, which should be freshwater.  Unfortunately, tigermen don't seem to drink from wells.