The mountainhome has set the following guidelines for your outpost:
Your primary goal is to reach 5M in created wealth as quickly as possible.
Our mountainhome scouts have reported the following:
It is 10z to Armoks tears (cavern water)
It is 13z to Armoks blood (magma)
This region is ideal for producing steel.
Dust devils have been observed at the site.
Enjoy! :D
If the area is too inhospitable for wildlife I would expect there wouldn't be any undead to greet you either, meaning you'd have to create them yourself out of invaders (or possibly clashing invaders, if you can get several at the same time)?
It is possible to have multiple sieges at the same time. If the attacking civilizations are at war with each other, they will start to fight with each other as well.Clashing invaders would work.
No water means no working hospitals, since you can't clean anythingYou can still attempt other stuff, but good luck (infections all round! Also: death by dehydration). Also: no casts, I believe.
(and soap would be worthless)?You can still build things out of it :P
Glacier as water supply would work fine though, provided it's thick enough that you can actually "mine" some.Yep. Although note that if you have *any* water on any freezing biome you have infinite water, as frozen water will melt to 7/7 always, but you only need 2/7 to freeze.
Come to think of it, no water means no way to mine magma sea candy, since you can't use cave-ins there.Pumps. Lots and lots of pumps. And sacrificial miners.
No plants either topside or in the caverns would mean all farming would be embark/caravan seed based, which in itself is no big dealIt does mean you're stuck with whatever your civilization has access to for seeds. (And caravans, I suppose)
(provided, of course, you're not both water AND soil less, so you can't muddy any rock. Then you'd have to dig fast and try the SMR -> sand conversion trick).One wikiwalk later... Huh. SMR is weird.
In some biomes (deserts, for instance) you can nevertheless create grazing grounds topside by channeling off the top soil/clay layer. You'd then get grass, but never herbs or trees.Grazing (almost) doesn't matter, I've found. I tend to butcher grazing animals immediately - they aren't worth the trouble for me. Then again, I am not you.
No trees either topside nor in the caverns would mean you'd have to rely on what you bring on embark and on caravans. If you've got metal, many of the things usually made out of wood can be made out of metal.Yep. Though unfortunately most of the substitutes are for things that dwarves haul around. The difference between a wooden bin and iron one can be significant. (And actually, generally glass is better than metal.)
Mead require bees, which requires a suitable biome plus some luck.Yep. It'd be interesting to embark somewhere where that was the only option, though. Beekeeping isn't generally used much.
Also, no seeds at all means a severe lack of clothing.Why? Webs and wool work quite well. (Especially GCS farms.) Though you can't really dye anything.
It would be interesting to piggy back on something provided for Pseudo; it's sure to be different from what I normally embark on.Hence why I asked!
Yes, I realized that in a freezing biome all you need is a single block of iceYep.
in a location you can cave in (has to be at least 3 tiles from the edge, possibly at least 6 [if the "no building closer than 5 tiles" rule gets extended downwards when the area is exposed to the surface]).Nope! Adjacent magma will also melt it, including below it. And you can build bridges and raise them to channel the resulting water. The only tricky case would be if it's right on the edge, and I suspect (although I do not know) that you can do it there too.
The only reason I keep grazers is to get wool for moods, since the bulk of the clothing is produced from plant fibers early on and silk later.True... Though generally I find caravans and butchering to be enough.
I don't think you can make a glass bucket, for instance (if you don't have any water buckets are of use only for lye, I think, and lye is good only for...soap).Also minecarts, wheelbarrows, and chains, among other things.
I generally try to get bees because I want to give my dorfs the widest booze selection possible, but mead as the only booze would require a massive bee keeping industry. Interesting is the word.There's a flat limit of 40 / 60 hives, also.
Wool require grazing, and silk farming requires at least a bit of luck to catch a GCS. If I had had to rely on silk farming in my latest fortress they'd all go naked for more than 5 years, because GCS' were late in appearing, didn't catch my bait, and were few between (and at least once the lazy dorfs took too many days to pull the lever to display my bait that the GCS had passed by my entrance). Of course, after 10 years or so one of the big FPS drains is massive covering of caverns in cave spider silk, so there should be a sufficient supply, but a fair bit of walking to collect it.Good point.
It sounds very brutal: if the giant decides to step on where you are it's game over (save scumming can obviously be used to retry until the giant steps elsewhere), but it's Pseudo's call.Yep, those presumptions seem to be accurate, from what I've seen so far. Bleeding out, oddly enough, doesn't seem to be fatal under all conditions. I've seen yaks, for example, that had no fat left at all, and were perfectly alive and well.
I have to admit I don't know how fat melting works in detail, since all my fat melting cases have been caused by fire/magma.
- If I understand the description correctly, a slightly lower temperature means fat melting doesn't happen virtually immediately but with a short delay after the rain starts?
- Once fat melting starts, my understanding is that there is no way to stop the bleeding; bleeding will continue until all the fat is gone on the affected body part?
- The temperature update triggered by the rain is independent of whether the dorf gets hit by the rain or not: the important thing is whether the dorf is present in the the scalding climate?
No water or cave water? Yow. (I assume that includes aquifers?) Brutal is the word.No aquifers, correct.
Do season changes trigger a temperature update?
It took me 8 restarts and it's a matter of luck when the blood starts raining.That's pretty much how I started as well. Immediately designated stairs down/up, dug a room in the dirt, designated it the meeting area, everyone moves down, the second the dig is complete, setup a stockpile that holds everything, deconstruct the wagon, seal up the path to the surface, and get started on the farms.
Stairs are slower, so 1 ramp next to wagon seems the best first opening with 1 tile for a block (log) wall.
All 7 have miner, so take off 3 to do hauling.
I did a 3x5 dig with priority 1, then work outward to get a 3x11 room that should be enough to put everything in.
The 3x5 is also immedately set as meeting room, and the animals go there, so less animal hauling distance.
After the 3x11 is dug, priority is to haul everything then deconstruct wagon.
...
Conclusion: This is hard...Agreed. Even after years of playing, this one tests my patience. At least now I have something to give players who think the game is too easy and/or are getting bored. :)
... I slaughtered a bull calf the immigrants brought, and despite the hide being taken for tanning immediately it reanimated and kills off everyone it encounters. ...I just have to say, PatrikLundell, that the mental imagery conjured by this phrase made my day. :) :P Big flappy calf skin flailing and bashing dwarfs. That's some good stuff, right there. hehehe.
Huh. An interesting exploit / quirk.
If you fell a tree on the lowest level of the map, it'll make a bottomless pit (well, it just shows "open space", but it acts like one).
The lack of plump helmets isn't really that bad. Just annoying. Also: don't forget about eggs.
I haven't been having any trouble digging up to the surface: just make sure that you have a door right next to the ramp and forbid it as soon as a ramp is dug, and never order >1 ramp dug at a time.
... I can't understand the rain heat logic, though. In my spring migration wave, everyone except some animals were well inside when the rain started, and they didn't start bleeding until they'd reached past the halfway point of the map. ...I've been trying to refine this particular style of embark by creating a purely swamp world with 100% rain, and much higher temperatures, to ensure the surface is universally fatal for animals, migrants and caravans alike.
A few things:I shall have to test this...
- I suspect using a cave-in at the lowest cavern level might not plunk down a wall, but rather punch a hole in the floor into the unknown.
- I found a hospital can actually have some use, but you have to enable and disable it to release those resting there before they get too thirsty. Some treatment actually seems to be performed though, and one dorf that was bad enough to be able to crawl to a barrel and not being able to drink recovered enough to drink, and seems to even have picked up a crutch. Annoyingly, dorfs that have no damage left still have the cleaning job on them, and go to rest/sleep in the hospital as soon as it's enabled.Also note that you can have a CMD with no actual hospital. Won't actually do anything, but you can at least glance at the medical screen and see who needs diagnosing.
- A whacky thought: I think it should be possible to build a windmill farm reasonably safely by building the mills underground and then make a ramp hole over the center of each windmill. I don't know if there's any wind at the embark, and even if there is, there's no fluid to pump, so all power would go to mine carts, which I normally power with impulse ramps.Making windmills secure in this version is actually rather difficult now that things can jump and climb. I wonder if a windmill will operate under a bridge?
Save scumming: [snip]Normally I'll revert to the beginning of the season without a second thought. That being said, for this challenge...? I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
Reanimation:[snip]Looks like things reanimate quite slowly underground, but they do reanimate. I've been running operation splat for a while now, and unfortunately it seems to be producing more cages than it is freeing up...
Since the first generation of peafowl matured I'm having my full time militia (4 dorfs) stationed in the butcher's shop to handle any reanimations.
I've also secured the cavern, which is a big step.
Does it block reanimation of hair and skin as well?No, no it doesn't. As my multiple bruised dwarves can attest to.
... What the hell? And by that I mean, what the apparently nonexistent hell? How did you remove the magma layer?Removing it has some consequences, some known, some surprising (the chopped down tree bottomless pit thing), but I removed it in this case because having it makes dealing with certain problems (like undead) too easy. It also provides infinite forge/furnace fuel, which I wanted to be a rarity to drive the player into the caverns.
...That's the way they appeared, and it's consistent across multiple embarks in this world. It's possible the lack of access to certain plants, leather or materials(?) has led to an entire dwarven civ without pants. :)
vjek, is the scantily clad dorfs with their bare bottoms (and associated bad thoughts) intentional or just a lucky coincidence?
Deconstruct the wagon immediately. Dig 2 ramps down and a small area connected to one of the two ramps, and a tunnel just disconnected from the other ramp. Also: rush down to get two stone.
Pasture the animals in the small area, and make a 1x2 stone stockpile there as well. It will be needed.
Dump everything into the disconnected ramp. Connect it. Unforbid everything there and build a wall under both ramps. Now you're "safe".
@Pseudo: I've tried to understand what you did with this, but don't get itWalking through:
... Temperature:Just the surface. Underground is always the same, 10015, unless magma is involved or the surface is breached from below.
Wait a minute: If I get it correctly, you say the underground temperature range becomes 9200-10200 when the limits are set to -1000..+300, but are those limits for the underground realm only, or are they for the world as a whole? ...
...Yeah, it's stored in memory somewhere (obviously), and I think you can even parse it out of uncompressed saves, if desired. It's probably just not been a huge priority so far, compared with other desired features.
I would have thought there would be a demand for knowing what you're getting on an evil embark in order to avoid things you're not prepared for/interested in, and get the ones you want. It might be as simple as it not being easy to get hold of, but that doesn't seem to have stopped people in the past.