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Dwarf Fortress => DF Dwarf Mode Discussion => Topic started by: Asymptote on October 29, 2011, 12:56:12 pm

Title: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Asymptote on October 29, 2011, 12:56:12 pm
I've always been afraid of forgetting to make one vital piece of equipment non-magma safe, the massive FPS drop (just turning on tempreture halves my FPS in my current fort).. but mostly the perceived amount of effort involved.

I'm no stranger to hard work... my current fort Wetringed is a 20x20, 45 zlevel above ground tower, made entirely from marble, running water, 3000 excess power, drainable moat, etc etc. But I've started on a magma spewing death-trap for the entrance, and it just seems too much. I've got the power to where it needs to be, my magma reservoir is slowly filling as I type, but... as far as I can tell, I will need a magma pump stack of 80+ levels.

Tell me true, oh forum, is it worth it?
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Thatdude on October 29, 2011, 01:08:52 pm
Wait... did you actually ask that question seriously? :o

Every fort can be improved with !!MAGMA!! of course it is. It's (mostly) pointless, labour intensive and incredibly dangerous and therefore very very dwarfy indeed!
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: YetAnotherStupidDorf on October 29, 2011, 01:10:18 pm
Quote from: Asymptote on October 29, 2011, 12:56:12 pm
Tell me true, oh forum, is it worth it?
Is pope Catholic?
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Khenal on October 29, 2011, 01:17:41 pm
Instead of a massive pumpstack, you could always try a magma piston.  I haven't tried it myself, but  here's the wiki for it. (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Magma_piston)  It's not really any less work than making a pump stack, but it should be far less punishing on your fps.
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Asymptote on October 29, 2011, 01:29:19 pm
OK so I guess I will go for it... the piston is something I would like to try but the layout is all wrong for this fort. Looks interesting tho.

So now my dwarves are running into my slowly filling magma resevoir, picking up half-melted microcline, and storing it in my food stock pile. Why are the doing that? I dont have a single stone stock pile and just double checked the food stock pile and there's no wierdness there. Not all of them are on fire, but some of them are.
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Asymptote on October 29, 2011, 01:30:53 pm
OH GOD THE WINE IS EXPLODING
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Frelus on October 29, 2011, 01:39:39 pm
Hey, they are dwarfes who didn't have ‼MAGMA‼ for a looong, looong time, and are looking for ‼FUN‼ by making the booze explode.
What's wrong?
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Eric Blank on October 29, 2011, 01:47:43 pm
What's wrong is that they're intentionally destroying the booze! Those aren't dwarves, they're short elves in fake beards! Kill them before it's too late!
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Yoink on October 29, 2011, 01:52:19 pm
...inb4 'it's too late'
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: ClkWrkJester on October 29, 2011, 02:17:14 pm
Don't fear the reaper, my friend.

If you do it all right you have a badge on your belt proving your dorfiness. If you fail, you get to see all your dwarves run around on fire. win-win.

Remember, losing is Fun.

!!LOSING!! is hilarious.
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: King DZA on October 29, 2011, 02:23:20 pm
Quote from: Asymptote on October 29, 2011, 01:30:53 pm
OH GOD THE WINE IS EXPLODING

Sigged. Made me giggle.
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: squeakyReaper on October 29, 2011, 02:34:52 pm
Quote from: King DZA on October 29, 2011, 02:23:20 pm
Quote from: Asymptote on October 29, 2011, 01:30:53 pm
OH GOD THE WINE IS EXPLODING

Sigged. Made me giggle.
Double sigged.
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Asymptote on October 29, 2011, 03:57:37 pm
OK, so sit rep.
- 16 dwarves killed pretty much instantly in a massive alcohol fireball. I had no idea that could happen... deadly. Altho, somehow not a single of my 70+ children bought it  >:(
- food and alcohol stores still OK, altho lost all my legendary lavish meals. Luckily lots of plants & alcohol also stored down near the farms/stills.
- tantruming beginning now... my dwarves are generally pretty happy so I dont expect toooo much... broken chairs etc. Luckily? the captain of the guard was flambe'd in the explosion so no brutal reprisals
- pump stack completion status: 0%  :)
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: CapnUrist on October 29, 2011, 04:14:55 pm
Huh. Odd that they started grabbing firey microcline. Did you have any of them marked for dumping?

And yes, alcohol + fire = ‼FUN‼
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Frelus on October 29, 2011, 04:15:04 pm
Well, see?
They had reserves, and they just NEEDED a good explosion to look at.
And be engulfed in.
And die in.
Well, they ARE dwarfes after all...
greetz
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Asymptote on October 29, 2011, 05:36:41 pm
Yah I have NFI what happened with the melted microcline. The magma would sometimes 'retreat' a square and leave some microcline behind... showed up as just 'microcline' as the dwarves where hauling it, except it had the liquid-like texture. It's possible that I accidently marked it for dumping, improbable tho... definitely didnt do it on purpose.

So spoke to soon on the tantrum front  >:( One them darn kids tantrumed and deconstructed the major bridge into the fortress while standing on it. He and 5 others fell 7 - 8zs onto the mountainside. Two fell into the moat instead and drowned, one kid bled out, two dwarves and tanty McTantrum are still alive but hospitalised... tanty has two broken legs.

pump stack mining: 40%
pump stack pumps: 8%... not so much work as I thought it was going to be (dont know if I'm doing it right yet tho =D might be a massive failure)
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Eric Blank on October 29, 2011, 05:42:24 pm
bwahahaha! another fine example of a generic tantrum spiral destroying an entire fortress piece by piece :P
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: moki on October 29, 2011, 05:47:55 pm
Quote from: Asymptote on October 29, 2011, 03:57:37 pm
OK, so sit rep.
- 16 dwarves killed pretty much instantly in a massive alcohol fireball. I had no idea that could happen... deadly. Altho, somehow not a single of my 70+ children bought it  >:(
- food and alcohol stores still OK, altho lost all my legendary lavish meals. Luckily lots of plants & alcohol also stored down near the farms/stills.
- tantruming beginning now... my dwarves are generally pretty happy so I dont expect toooo much... broken chairs etc. Luckily? the captain of the guard was flambe'd in the explosion so no brutal reprisals
- pump stack completion status: 0%  :)

So... everything went better than expected?  :P

When building magma stacks, I usually dig out the whole thing, dump all the stones, construct the pumps one by one and then seal the whole thing with walls. It takes some time and micromanagement, but after accidentally collapsing 30 pumps and spilling magma into my water reactors, I'm rather cautious...
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Putnam on October 29, 2011, 06:10:06 pm
Quote from: YetAnotherStupidDorf on October 29, 2011, 01:10:18 pm
Quote from: Asymptote on October 29, 2011, 12:56:12 pm
Tell me true, oh forum, is it worth it?
Is pope Catholic?

Interpreted as "is popé (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop%C3%A9) catholic"

And the answer is hell no

which means that this post is wrong
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: UltraValican on October 29, 2011, 06:17:13 pm
I've never used magma either, I burn wood just to piss of the elves, even when I have coal.
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Lordraymond on October 29, 2011, 10:15:33 pm
Quote from: UltraValican on October 29, 2011, 06:17:13 pm
I've never used magma either, I burn wood just to piss of the elves, even when I have coal.

Now, if you could burn the wood USING magma, it would be truly Dworfy
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Triaxx2 on October 30, 2011, 05:08:30 am
Personally, I like to skip the middle man and burn Elves with magma, but to each his own death trap.
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 30, 2011, 06:04:16 am
Magma traps can be excused, but please tell me you've at least built a magma doomsday weapon?

[My favorite was dropping my entire fortress into magma, preserving it FOR THE AGES]
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Sting_Auer on October 30, 2011, 08:35:57 am
*reads OP*

GASP! My word!

/me slaps with a glove.
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Moonshadow101 on October 30, 2011, 02:53:26 pm
I consider pump stacks to be, in general, a senselessly tedious thing to build and operate. They're stupid.

Embark on a Volcano. That's what I do whenever I want my fortress to be surrounded by hollow walls filled with magma. Put a floodgate in every few spaces, link them up to a series of levers so you can pick what area you want to burn, and enjoy.
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: UltraValican on October 30, 2011, 07:20:23 pm
Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 30, 2011, 06:04:16 am
Magma traps can be excused, but please tell me you've at least built a magma doomsday weapon?

[My favorite was dropping my entire fortress into magma, preserving it FOR THE AGES]
Nope
I use Cold Steel, to get stuff done.
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 30, 2011, 08:22:53 pm
Quote from: UltraValican on October 30, 2011, 07:20:23 pm
Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 30, 2011, 06:04:16 am
Magma traps can be excused, but please tell me you've at least built a magma doomsday weapon?

[My favorite was dropping my entire fortress into magma, preserving it FOR THE AGES]
Nope
I use Cold Steel, to get stuff done.

This is why Dwarf fortress needs a liquid nitrogen sea somewhere, maybe in the sky (I know.).
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: proxn_punkd on October 30, 2011, 08:26:41 pm
Quote from: Loud Whispers on October 30, 2011, 08:22:53 pm
This is why Dwarf fortress needs a liquid nitrogen sea somewhere, maybe in the sky (I know.).

Dwarf Fortress, in SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Triaxx2 on October 30, 2011, 08:49:17 pm
I enjoy playing with pump stacks honestly. For no reason other than because I can.

As for rising long distances, I find that if I work them out so that ever 10 levels, there's a small reservoir, of say an 8x8 for an 80z stack, it means I can keep FPS by only running one or two chunks of pump stack at a time.
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 30, 2011, 08:50:53 pm
I tend to shirk away from large scale magma movements, for the sake of FPS.
But I've found an advantage to above ground forts is Asthetics - Underground pipes simply add to the splendour :D
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Jake on October 30, 2011, 09:31:00 pm
Every time I embarked anywhere near magma in 40d it ended with everyone dead or insane before the first caravan arrived. I refuse to go anywhere near the stuff now.
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Eric Blank on October 30, 2011, 10:48:19 pm
It's perfectly safe now. Haven't seen a fire snake (or purring maggot for that matter) since 31.01 came out, and fire imps and magma crabs tend to stay downstairs now, so your chances of experiencing unintentional !!FUN!! are very, very low. I even gave up making a hundred and two airlocks between my fortress and my magma forges!
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Loud Whispers on October 30, 2011, 11:08:31 pm
Quote from: Eric Blank on October 30, 2011, 10:48:19 pm
It's perfectly safe now. Haven't seen a fire snake (or purring maggot for that matter) since 31.01 came out, and fire imps and magma crabs tend to stay downstairs now, so your chances of experiencing unintentional !!FUN!! are very, very low. I even gave up making a hundred and two airlocks between my fortress and my magma forges!

I've had purring maggots before... But this was before I deemed them of any use. Never seen them since.
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Asymptote on October 31, 2011, 10:07:18 am
ahem...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Got about 15 goblins in the trap... after the stack was complete had to wait over a year before I got another siege. Two militia dwarves were left outside, one died but the other fought of nearly 20 speargoblins+trolls... (he didnt kill them all, just stayed alive until they broke). So total casualty count for the magma trap comes to:
- 16 to the exploding alchol incident
- 3 to the resulting tantrums
- one miner who was too slow
- one militia dwarf caught outside.
- 15 goblin lashers

But it works!

In other news, half the map is on fire.
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: tryrar on October 31, 2011, 10:23:37 am
Quote from: Asymptote on October 31, 2011, 10:07:18 am
In other news, half the map is on fire.

Oh so sigged!
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Asymptote on October 31, 2011, 10:42:30 am
Yah.... suffice to say as much effort wasn't put in to the magma disposal system as the magma delivery system =/
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: thegoatgod_pan on October 31, 2011, 10:53:18 am
My only attempt at a magma trap was a squidlike structure operated by bridges emerging from a volcano.

The bridges turned out to not be magma safe.

There was almost no way to stop it from constantly pouring out magma, short of draining the huge reservoir onto the ground--the valves were right by the volcano.

When goblins came they ignored the large pools of magma and marched easily up a ramp I missed into the fortress proper. 
No one survived.
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Quietust on October 31, 2011, 11:36:00 am
Quote from: Asymptote on October 29, 2011, 03:57:37 pm
16 dwarves killed pretty much instantly in a massive alcohol fireball. I had no idea that could happen... deadly.
Actually, I'm pretty sure it didn't happen - when exposed to fire, alcohol boils (which is unlikely to inflict any serious damage) but it does not burn.
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: dr_random on October 31, 2011, 11:48:00 am
Quote from: Asymptote on October 29, 2011, 12:56:12 pm
I've always been afraid of forgetting to make one vital piece of equipment non-magma safe, the massive FPS drop (just turning on tempreture halves my FPS in my current fort).. but mostly the perceived amount of effort involved.

I'm no stranger to hard work... my current fort Wetringed is a 20x20, 45 zlevel above ground tower, made entirely from marble, running water, 3000 excess power, drainable moat, etc etc. But I've started on a magma spewing death-trap for the entrance, and it just seems too much. I've got the power to where it needs to be, my magma reservoir is slowly filling as I type, but... as far as I can tell, I will need a magma pump stack of 80+ levels.

Tell me true, oh forum, is it worth it?
Eh? I didn't bother about this stuff for a long time also, but when you got the things handy (volcano) you can just make a trap ouside, safely away from the fortress. Add some doors for sealing things and have fun. Use a man-powered pump. Is there a flaw, the dying Mr Pump will cease pumping, stopping the flow effectively. Small traps won't hurt the FPS much.
Important advice: Temperature must be enabled. Else this will all be a big disappointment.
For my part: I'm still about to figure out how waterwheels work. The wind wheels never worked.
Are they worth the effort?
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Necro910 on October 31, 2011, 11:58:11 am
Asymptote, magma is the true dwarven way.

Remember...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: flieroflight on October 31, 2011, 12:02:56 pm
i have build mgma trap, theyve just never worked.
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Necro910 on October 31, 2011, 12:03:57 pm
Quote from: flieroflight on October 31, 2011, 12:02:56 pm
i have build mgma trap, theyve just never worked.
Quote from: Necro910 on October 31, 2011, 11:58:11 am
Remember...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
:P
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Telgin on October 31, 2011, 12:55:05 pm
I have yet to try a magma trap myself, although I planned it for this fort.  I had absolutely no easy way to build magma safe pumps though: no magma safe metal ores and no sand to make glass parts.  I started buying sand off the traders to make glass parts, but it's a slow process to build the 60+ z-level stack.  This being my first time, I fully expect terrible things to happen in the process.

Then a deadly dust forgotten beast showed to and killed 40% of the population, so I probably won't manage to pull it off this time.  I'll probably try again on my next embark, possibly with a more shallow world gen next time.

I want a magma moat darn it!
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Ifeno on October 31, 2011, 01:42:23 pm
i built a f*** the world lever once.  Then i accidentally the whole off switch.  Let's just say i havent gotten imigrants or merchants in a REALLY long time...
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: AWellTrainedFerret on October 31, 2011, 02:04:04 pm
I've shied away from !!MAGMA!! traps for fps reasons, but no my fort is drowning in cheap clothes and I need 4 smelters running full time melting down copper and iron armor. I guess Magma really is the solution.
Title: Re: My secret shame - I've never built a magma trap
Post by: Malarauko on October 31, 2011, 03:55:16 pm
I had a magma trap that melted through a floor tile and destroyed a small building I had. Luckily the basement of the building was big enough to hold all the magma so it was no major issue. Happened because I deconstructed 1 tile for access reasons and when I rebuilt it the first stone on the list was different (because I had moved the stockpile for the project to the next area). 1 floor tile led to a major leak that would have destroyed everything underneath. As it is I now have a random moat of magma at one of my entrances.