I've never played any of the Souls games (tho' I've played the hell out of King's Field), so I can't make any comparisons, but almost everything in this game just feels good.
I've made it through the first two areas, and am currently stopped in the third (damned robo-hounds). So far I've acquired four complete sets of armor (still using the Lynx gear I started with tho', it has a very nice attack speed bonus), and eleven weapons, the vibro-cutter is by far my favorite so far, but I'm looking for a single-hand weapon with better scaling (I'm up to 15 proficiency with one-handers).
So far I'd recommend it on its own merits, but it seems to be putting some Souls players off for some reason.
Edit: Also, there isn't any option to modify the MC's appearance, you're playing Warren, and that is all there is to it.
Thanks for letting us know how it is - always good to hear a B12's opinion.
The PC Gamer review was absolute rubbish - the reviewer obviously was not in a good frame of mind, and had a big problem with the game before they started. Also, starting off with a needlessly whiny the 'protagonist is a generic white male which is annoying herp derp' doesn't really help. Really feel they were a bit unfair with it.
All the other review sites make it sound great though, so I think I'll pick it up. That said, I'm right in the middle of DS2:SotfS so might leave it a while if it's very similar.
Thanks for letting us know how it is - always good to hear a B12's opinion.
The PC Gamer review was absolute rubbish - the reviewer obviously was not in a good frame of mind, and had a big problem with the game before they started. Also, starting off with a needlessly whiny the 'protagonist is a generic white male which is annoying herp derp' doesn't really help. Really feel they were a bit unfair with it.
All the other review sites make it sound great though, so I think I'll pick it up. That said, I'm right in the middle of DS2:SotfS so might leave it a while if it's very similar.
Regarding the 'white male protag' controversy, one of the things I really don't get is that they completely ignore that Warren is disabled, before the ATLAS is attached to him he is completely wheelchair-bound. To be fair, that lasts through all of like five minutes, then he's moving like a power-armored war-machine, but I felt that it was a nice change of pace (certainly far better than F4's intro for example.)
a brown-haired white male straight out of every video game, heads to his first day of work [...] realize Warren's not as generic as I thought. He's in a wheelchair.
Regarding the 'white male protag' controversy, one of the things I really don't get is that they completely ignore that Warren is disabled, before the ATLAS is attached to him he is completely wheelchair-bound. To be fair, that lasts through all of like five minutes, then he's moving like a power-armored war-machine, but I felt that it was a nice change of pace (certainly far better than F4's intro for example.)
Yeah, from watching an early lets play it seemed like an interesting character back story (a WHY he ended up there, instead of the usual 'I decided to do this just cos I did'). As Sirian said, it is pointed out, however the reviewer STILL feels the need to prefix it with a lot of 'generic white male' bit. It's why it rubbed me up the wrong way so much - he obviously wanted to make a politicised point, even if it isn't there for him to make.
Whilst the people who bang on about how 'the world hates standard white males' are stupid, I do think it's a bit ridiculous that people are using having a white male protag as a reason to dislike something or that something is somehow less good because the character is a standard white male, which seems to be what the PC Gamer article is saying.
Representation is important, but sometimes it doesn't fit the creators vision for whatever reason.
Have you actually read the review ? Here's the part that you mention :Quotea brown-haired white male straight out of every video game, heads to his first day of work [...] realize Warren's not as generic as I thought. He's in a wheelchair.
Also figured out exactly how the 'scrap multiplier' works, it increments based on the number of executions you perform.
The problem with the fully-functional PAX units is knocking them down, I can almost kill them with a single combo, but knocking them down is proving to be incredibly difficult. And they have entirely too much reach with their blades.
It looks okay, but I'm of the above opinion that "Souls" is just an excuse to make your game ugly and frustrating and call it difficulty. The Souls series is the veganism of video games and I'm sick of hearing about it.
I'm not sure which of From's games your referencing there neo, I felt magic was extremely well done in the King's Field series.
MASSIVE ENERGY AXE
As far as defining the genre, then we get into what exactly is souls doing that's different? Difficulty and trial-and-error? Roguelikes have been around for decades. The combat system? The Surge is kind of fun but when I play it I'm just further convinced that what I actually enjoyed about dark souls was the multiplayer. Semi-asynchronous multiplayer was what actually made dark souls special for me. The combat was barely passable and clunky as fuck, lots of gimmicks and gotcha bullshit further complicated by bugs and engine jankiness.
As far as defining the genre, then we get into what exactly is souls doing that's different? Difficulty and trial-and-error? Roguelikes have been around for decades. The combat system? The Surge is kind of fun but when I play it I'm just further convinced that what I actually enjoyed about dark souls was the multiplayer. Semi-asynchronous multiplayer was what actually made dark souls special for me. The combat was barely passable and clunky as fuck, lots of gimmicks and gotcha bullshit further complicated by bugs and engine jankiness.
You can't really just call it trail and error. Plenty of games today have that, it's just their trial and error is frustrating in a way that doesn't leave you feeling good when you've succeeded.
As far as defining the genre, then we get into what exactly is souls doing that's different? Difficulty and trial-and-error? Roguelikes have been around for decades. The combat system? The Surge is kind of fun but when I play it I'm just further convinced that what I actually enjoyed about dark souls was the multiplayer. Semi-asynchronous multiplayer was what actually made dark souls special for me. The combat was barely passable and clunky as fuck, lots of gimmicks and gotcha bullshit further complicated by bugs and engine jankiness.
You can't really just call it trail and error. Plenty of games today have that, it's just their trial and error is frustrating in a way that doesn't leave you feeling good when you've succeeded.
But that's basically exactly how I feel when I play dark souls. There's never satisfaction when I win, because inevitably the way to win was some dumb gimmick that trivializes a fight that's otherwise almost impossible. Gwyn was like fighting a brick wall until I put on golem armor and ironskin and just spammed parry in his face.
I only like the single-links, though I haven't gotten a heavy yet, missed the big hammer in the underground and can't go back to where it was. Dual-link feels horrible and one-hand is boring.
Also that song is really getting on my nerves.
I don't like being the guy who says people are having fun wrong, but almost all Souls-like games I've played have been bad clunky games that people play as a statement about what kind of gamer they are.
I would describe souls series combat as "precise", the opposite of clunky. I don't play them because they're hard either, I play them because they're good. And I strongly suspect that most people who play them do so for the same reason.
Right now I am just doing the Ring around the Rosie in the first area just to collect and upgrade as much as I can before facing the first boss. I feel like I am just being a sadist and saying peoples limbs are mine now or when I leave and enter the Ops Center I say "I'm going shopping" or "Look what I got from shopping honey!".
I really am very sorry to keep multiposting like this.Don't be. It's only true multiposting if you do it all in sequence on the same day.
so, i recently had a chance to play this and i got to say. im so tempted to buy it, just to give it a bad review.So it's a Soulslike and you don't like it because it does Soulslike things like respawning enemies, npc friendly fire, killing bosses in tricky ways for weapons and asshole pit traps? Because those are all stuff pioneered by Demon Souls and then expanded on by Dark Souls. I'm not saying you have to like them, but you are kind of missing the point of the whole genre here.
then that sound design. i did not play it sooo long, but i swear if i ever hear that retarded 1 minute song again that is playing NON STOP in that med bay i will start to cut myself.
such level design. not only the game is full of falling traps in dark areas where you can fall into your death if you are careless. nope, you also fall into your death if you hit an enemy that is close to a death trap, because the player avatar is completely lobotomized and incapable of swinging without jumping into holes.
and consequences? yeye. its realy cool if your decissions have consequences. i like it too. its nice the studios understand that now. or do they?
everything respawns, death is ireelevant for everything. exept if you accidently hit a friendly npc. not only will he stay dead, the game will also immidiatley overwrite your save to make sure it sticks.
to get good waeapons, you have to kill the bosses *just right* with the one try you have and the game wont even tell you what to do.
yeah, thats consequent all right. its just not my deicissions that have consequences. so thats about as usefull as crap on a stick.
well. enough rant. it is not a terrible game i give it that. but also a game that seems to want to ride that "hard is cool" wave way to much. its not even realy difficult. its just frustrating by desing.
Just finished this. I really wanted to like it more than I did but it ended up being more frustrating than fun.
Not because it was hard - it was not exactly easy, but I actually found it to be easier than dark souls was (at least DS1, the only one I've played). Not because of the grinding - I didn't grind at all, it seemed pointless... I finished the game at level ~55 with rank 2 lynx armor. Not because of the respawning enemies - I just ran past most of them. It was not even the clunky controls, though they did feel excessively clunky sometimes.
No, the frustrating part was the absolutely atrocious level design.
It's a bunch of bland, boring industrial corridors, sewers, and industrial ruins from start to finish. The last few levels in particular, it felt like half the map was just running around in those small tunnels... and then finally near the end when you think it can't get any worse... you had those tiny small tunnels filled with poison gas. The hardest part of the game was just figuring out where I was supposed to go next... I had to look up a walkthrough 3 - 4 times just to figure out what I was supposed to be doing because there's absolutely no guidance of any sort and wandering through a confusing maze where everything looks exactly the same hoping you stumble on the correct area is not fun....
So I guess what I'm saying is, I really hope surge 2 has better level design because surge 1 probably has the worst level design of any game I've ever played. There were a lot of other things the game didn't do perfectly, but I could have forgiven it all if the level design was not such a nightmare.
Also, can you explain what you mean by clunky controls? I own Dark Souls 2 and 3 and The Surge, and of them I would say that The Surge is vastly smoother in the control department, Warren is way more responsive and much easier to control.I must agree with this. The Surge's controls are really smooth, and unlike DS it plays just fine on mouse & keyboard (controllers hurt my hands, so it makes a huge difference).
The problem that I did have with it was an utter lack of direction.
I can understand some of the complaints about level design, but it is really hard to do 'sci-fi factory' and not have large areas look really hard to differentiate, hell, it's pretty hard to do that in a modern factory setting. They did try to change things up, the two outdoor segments (not including walk in the park) are pretty different from each other, but still have the generic brown, black, grey, and white scheme as everything else. The factory floor and R&D look pretty different, and the executive forum is completely different, when you aren't in an accessway (which all look identical because they are, and it makes perfect sense for them to look identical). I actually found the biggest problem with everything looking samey to be more on the lighting than the environmental design, lots of really deep dark shadows and bright actinic lights make it hard to tell that the tileset is distinctive (again, within the completely reasonable sameness of an industrial setting, where using bulk components for construction is a very smart decision).
Also, can you explain what you mean by clunky controls? I own Dark Souls 2 and 3 and The Surge, and of them I would say that The Surge is vastly smoother in the control department, Warren is way more responsive and much easier to control.
"Single Rigged." I'm sorry to say that you just shot most of your 'clunky controls' argument in the foot. The single-rig is abysmally slow and for me (and some others) unreasonably clunky to use, you would have saved yourself a massive amount of complaints if you switched to one-handed or dual-rigged.
Now, that aside, you brought up an argument that I agree with, injections can rarely be rather twitchy, sometimes you'll be sure that you can drop one and it just doesn't go off. I have no idea what causes this but I think it may have to do with action-queuing, there is a delay at the end of most combos that seems to block input for a fraction of a second.
The jump/duck system does feel kind of tacked-on, I've actually only used it like, twice, by accident.
I also did not say that the jump/duck mechanic 'wasn't great', I just didn't have cause to use it so it seemed extraneous, go watch some youtube videos of actually skilled players (unlike me, I am barely acceptable to middling), they can do some really goddamn impressive shit with those mechanics.Soooo... would you happen to be able to link to some? Finding folks that are actually skilled like that can be pretty irritating to do, so if you happen to have some on tap that'd be nice.
The basic controls of the game are very smooth and are in no way difficult to get used to. The single rigged weapons are the sole exception to this rule, and any number of people have commented upon it on Focus/Deck13's forums and the steam forums, there was even a major patch that altered the moveset of that particular weapon class so that it would be possible to animation cancel. If you want to talk about the Single-rigged weapons being clunky, then you have all the ammunition that you could ever desire. However, the moveset and controls of one weapon class out of FIVE (heavy, single-rigged, dual-rigged, one hand, and staff. Did you actually play the game? Your posts say you did but that's some awfully basic data to get wrong.), not including basic movement and evasion controls, is hardly an accurate picture of the game as a whole.
And agreeing with a criticism of a mechanic is in no way defanging the argument I made, the basic controls of The Surge are excellent, and the VAST majority of weapons share that trait. Further, in spite of the criticism that single-rigged weapons have received they are still considered to be excellent by much of the community (I personally disagree, but that is entirely due to playstyle.)
I also never said that the injection system 'wasn't great', nor did I praise it. I also did not say that the jump/duck mechanic 'wasn't great', I just didn't have cause to use it so it seemed extraneous, go watch some youtube videos of actually skilled players (unlike me, I am barely acceptable to middling), they can do some really goddamn impressive shit with those mechanics. I am not fanboying. There is room for improvement in the game, which is why I am interested in seeing where they go with The Surge 2.
I very seriously believe that if the first weapon other than the reclaimed piston you can lay hands on wasn't the goddamn plasma cutter the claims of clunky controls wouldn't even exist. For Hel's sake even the Endras TITAN hammer is smoother and easier to control than those huge sweeping attack animations.
One weapon class being harder to control does not justify calling the entire games control scheme 'clunky', it does however raise a valid point of discussion regarding that specific weapon class, especially in contrast to otherwise very clean system.
The Surge is not without flaws, but really the controls are by no means even close to bad, and I struggle to understand why it is what people latch onto. If I were going to level a serious criticism at the game it would be pointed squarely at some of the sloppy coding of the mobs and bosses, seriously, homing attacks, tethered animations, rotating base positions, and actor stability being assigned by weapon class instead of equipment are all massively larger issues than a class of weapons that are slow and sweeping in their animations.
And the jump/dodge isn't by any means clunky, it's terrifyingly responsive, but it is extraneous in that it is a mechanic that has had a disproportionate amount of effort put into it compared to its utility. I've seen videos of players using jump/dodge to evade numerous attacks from multiple mobs while executing counterstrikes and parries continuously, but the fact that all of that is possible but that there is functionally no need to ever do so makes it a weird design choice.
And there is always room for criticism of a games' systems, nothing is ever perfect and errors or bad decisions should be called out and discussed, I am only questioning the use of 'clunky' as an acceptable descriptor of the game when it is in reference to a single potentially flawed element.
i.e.: "Single rigged weapons are clunky and unresponsive" vs: "The controls are clunky and unresponsive". One of those statements is demonstrably false and the other is a valid talking point.No, that's how YOU feel. You can't say that it's 'false' as how the controls feel depends on the player - I really liked the control of mirrors edge, a lot of people felt it was way too light etc. etc.. It's a subjective thing, and as such, you can't decide what is and isn't a valid talking point.
Apparently the game got another DLC last month, and I completely missed it. I only noticed since the game updated on steam today. It's a Wild West themed DLC called "The Good, the Bad and the Augmented"It's fun. Of course you need to like the game already, since it's pretty much running a gauntlet of enemies with modifiers you pick previously.
Looks like it's some sort of arena challenge mode.
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Weapon mastery is gone, so you won't have to (unnecessarily) worry about not having enough proficiency to make good use of a new weapon. Implants are swappable at any time, and you can save three builds for different purposes. Equipment upgrading, fabrication, and core level upgrades are all at a single station now, making it more convenient, but eliminating the old scrap multiplier workaround. Upgrading your core gets you energy levels and points to increase health, stamina, or energy efficiency, with re-specs costing a pretty paltry 500 scrap.
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I'm happy the reviews are pretty positive for the new game. I'm holding out on buying it until I finally get around to finishing #1, but still.
I didn't actually see the steam user ones, just from here and critics.I'm happy the reviews are pretty positive for the new game. I'm holding out on buying it until I finally get around to finishing #1, but still.
It's unfortunate Steam reviews are ruined due to early launch technical problems. The game is definite improvement from the predecessor (although I am not a fan of online components that have been added).