Welcome to King of the Mafia, your chance to win the fabulous crown of this subforum! The rules are below. They were originally written by Dakarian and have been edited by webadict and me (my edits are in italics).You think you've proven yourself, child? "Oh my, I won as town!" Meh, that's easy with a whole army at your back and power roles you can abuse. "But I've beaten the town as Mafia!" PHAH! With friends and a horribly weak town.
But can you do both? Can you take down the mafia with 6 others, then turn around as mafia and BEAT those 6 to a pulp? Can you pick just the perfect role-braving additions caused by an evil mod-that will not only help you as town but also as scum? Can you fight off endless waves of people, including those you've killed?
Well then step on the hill and see if you have what it takes to be King of the Mafia.Spoiler: Basic Rules: READ! (click to show/hide)
Specialized Rules:
Inning is not required to sign up. To sign up read only the first two pages of Xylbot's role list (http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12368) and choose ONE role from there (and PM it to me). You will then be assigned with that role, with a possibility of additional features based on balance or tomfoolery(though nothing hidden).Spoiler: Largish rules for choosing a role (click to show/hide)
Once 7 people have signed up, the game begins. A random person will be picked as KING MAFIA and will be given, on top of their role, the Mafiakill. The First Round ONLY will start with a kill-less Night (that is all killing abilities will be disabled).
From there, the game continues. During the game, anyone else can Sign up to be put on a queue. Game will play like a standard mafia game. If you die at any time, you may Sign up again, though others who haven't played that round will have priority.
If King Mafia is killed at any time, the round ends. Those in queue will take the place of those that died to refill the ranks back to 7 (those still alive remain), a new KING MAFIA will be picked, and the game will start on the next phase (Old round ends in Day, new round starts at Night...)
Play continues until KING MAFIA succeeds in being the ONLY one alive. Note that all players being dead does not fulfill the KING MAFIA win condition - in that case a new round would begin with 7 new players.
There is an antilurk system in place. Each RL day, you MUST have either voted (even if its for the same person) or sent in an action. Fail once and you get one prod. Fail twice in the same round and you will be killed, a player in Queue will automatically Sub in for you, and you will not be able to rejoin. Ever.
All may join this game, though be aware of the antilurk system. Please read this line Dariush.
*Toony Edit on No-Lynch policy*
Players may choose to no-lynch two days in a row. Otherwise a lynch must be made. If players force a tie then the lynch target will be randomly decided between the lynch candidates. If there are only two players left the compulsory lynch rule is not enforced, instead a stalemate results in a mafia loss.
You're done with the rules. Now join and claim the mountain!
Yeah, as it turns out I have to out on this one, in case you've already added me. I'll definitely enjoy watching, though. :)I didn't because of the lack of role, but it's alright.
The latter.Yeah, as it turns out I have to out on this one, in case you've already added me. I'll definitely enjoy watching, though. :)I didn't because of the lack of role, but it's alright.
Anyway, we just need one more to start.
Also, a question for people who already in'd: would you prefer that I auto-add dead players to the list for the next round or do you think it might be best that those interested ask for inclusion?
Don't dead players have to resubmit a role anyways?They can submit the same role if they feel like it.
... What?It probably matters for alignment inspects. If someone claims something like Doctor and you inspected them as an SK last round, you can be pretty confident they're lying.
I thought it was 1 Mafia and 6 Town...
Deep One (sk; rare; 4+ players): You kill other players. If you don't use a night action, all actions targeting you that night fail. Actions: kill
It probably matters for alignment inspects. If someone claims something like Doctor and you inspected them as an SK last round, you can be pretty confident they're lying.Just the sort of fake helpfulness I would expect from someone on the scumteam.
So y'all shouldn't be claiming your alignments, because now the King Mafia has some vague idea of what your roles are.
Yeah, regardless of the alignment for a particular role, everyone's wincon is either "kill the King Mafia to end the round" or "kill everyone else to win". I assumed everyone was marked as survivor if they weren't KING MAFIA but apparently not.
Shakerag: Why are you KING MAFIA again?
ShakeragIf I was king mafia, you toolchest, I wouldn't have admitted to the daykill in the first place. Think!
Yeah no. You seem to be coming up with reasons to daykill hector after you did it, which doesn't make sense unless you want to justify randomly killing someone. And your odds of hitting KING MAFIA are low. I admit there is some comedic value in immediately daykilling, but randomly killing someone basically just makes it easier for the KING MAFIA to win.
That's just what the king mafia would say. /sarcasm.ShakeragIf I was king mafia, you toolchest, I wouldn't have admitted to the daykill in the first place. Think!
Yeah no. You seem to be coming up with reasons to daykill hector after you did it, which doesn't make sense unless you want to justify randomly killing someone. And your odds of hitting KING MAFIA are low. I admit there is some comedic value in immediately daykilling, but randomly killing someone basically just makes it easier for the KING MAFIA to win.
BlackHeartKabal: Why did you daykill hector13?See, that's tough, considering I don't have a daykill.
BlackHeartKabal: Why do you think TheDarkStar is asking you if you killed hector13?Because he isn't King Mafia, and wants the actual KM to die so he can have his shot at it. Else, he wouldn't be so eager to accuse, I'd suppose.
ShakeragWhat, exactly, the hell do you want from me? I gave a large number of reasons as to why I did what I did, and am pushing a case on whom I think is scum.
Funny as that daykill was, what the hell, man?
I assure you, there is no circumstance in which anyone with the town's well being in mind would day kill someone the first day, your reasoning notwithstanding.ShakeragWhat, exactly, the hell do you want from me? I gave a large number of reasons as to why I did what I did, and am pushing a case on whom I think is scum.
Funny as that daykill was, what the hell, man?
Whelp, you got me there.I assure you, there is no circumstance in which anyone with the town's well being in mind would day kill someone the first day, your reasoning notwithstanding.ShakeragWhat, exactly, the hell do you want from me? I gave a large number of reasons as to why I did what I did, and am pushing a case on whom I think is scum.
Funny as that daykill was, what the hell, man?
BHK: ...what about the six reasons Shakerag gave? What do you think of them?The reasons he gives are more or less "a thing that only I know that I will not tell you", "It was funny" (admittedly true), and "this will totally help the town". Besides that, there really isn't much of a reason to allow him to try to explain himself out of a hipshot on the first day before anyone posted, I mean come on.
Also note that there is precedent for town daykilling D1 in a game like this.
FallacyOfUrist: Same question to you. What do you think of Shakerag's claim and people's responses to it?
Funny as that daykill was, what the hell, man?
persus13That Shakerag voted Persus right after I voted Persus. This looks like bandwagoning to me. The town would be better served by voting somebody else and putting pressure on them, rather than putting all the pressure on one person.
Alright, I'm not satisfied with the discussion today.Because this.
So I don't get mod killed for inactivity, I'll reiterate my vote on Persus13. Rules say you must vote once per real life day or get prodded. Two prods is death.Weekends don't count
... What?This is something I missed earlier, but it's interesting that you didn't already know that the alignments weren't divided up that way. Are you saying that your alignment is town?
I thought it was 1 Mafia and 6 Town...
Deus Asmoth: What are you most looking forward to in this game? Any grand plans to find the King Mafia?I'm looking forward to getting night killed, I guess. My grand plan is to make the King think I actually don't want to get night killed by saying that.
Shakerag: How does it feel to know that your life is hanging by a thread? Do you regret your decision to kill early?Is there a point to this question?
BHKYeah, my alignment is town. Considering that I watched the last KOTM game and it was 6 town and 1 mafia, it shouldn't be different now.... What?This is something I missed earlier, but it's interesting that you didn't already know that the alignments weren't divided up that way. Are you saying that your alignment is town?
I thought it was 1 Mafia and 6 Town...
Persus13: How do you think this apparent change in the rules will affect the game?It makes alignment inspects a lot more useful to pick, as if you don't hit King Mafia, you'll still learn something.
It would benefit the King Mafia much more to day kill at the start of the day than it would town.Its also the kind of thing I'd expect town Shakerag to pull.
Isn't this the kind of crazy gambit one would expect of Shakerag if he were King Mafia?
And really, if Shakerag claimed it later rather than immediately, it would make him look scummier. Of course the King Mafia would want to avoid that.Why would the King Mafia be forced to claim it later today?
You RVSed me, which effectively means nothing. Shakerag's vote is a serious one based on evidence. Shakerag's vote is much more than simple bandwagoning.persus13That Shakerag voted Persus right after I voted Persus. This looks like bandwagoning to me. The town would be better served by voting somebody else and putting pressure on them, rather than putting all the pressure on one person.
Persus:My scum game needs improvement if I'm going to win the crown. I can usually survive a pretty lengthy period of time, but I'm usually am unable to pull out a win at endgame. So I'll just wing it and see if that's enough to win the crown.Deus Asmoth: What are you most looking forward to in this game? Any grand plans to find the King Mafia?I'm looking forward to getting night killed, I guess. My grand plan is to make the King think I actually don't want to get night killed by saying that.
Do you think you'll be putting in extra effort to win the crown as one of the more experienced players here?
Shakerag: How does it feel to know that your life is hanging by a thread? Do you regret your decision to kill early?Considering I put the third vote on myself, I clearly DGAF. What kind of insight did you exactly expect to glean from a very special question like that?
KING MAFIA is naturally considered a Mafia. Only roles that change how you appear will override this. Yes, that means Serial Killer (Mafia). All others are naturally Town. However, no role can hide whether or not you were KING MAFIA - eg a KING MAFIA Ninja would flip "townie (town) and KING MAFIA".
NOT A PLAYER, POSTING AS AN OBSERVATIONCome on flarbot. If people don't read the rules that's their problem.Quote from: OPKING MAFIA is naturally considered a Mafia. Only roles that change how you appear will override this. Yes, that means Serial Killer (Mafia). All others are naturally Town. However, no role can hide whether or not you were KING MAFIA - eg a KING MAFIA Ninja would flip "townie (town) and KING MAFIA".
Is there a point to this question?To answer your question and Shakerag's: yes. I was hoping to get some more out of Shakerag. To cement my view as him being scum or to determine him being town.
[1] Its also the kind of thing I'd expect town Shakerag to pull.[1] Because Shakerag.
[2] Why would the King Mafia be forced to claim it later today?
[3] You RVSed me, which effectively means nothing. Shakerag's vote is a serious one based on evidence. Shakerag's vote is much more than simple bandwagoning.
Shakerag: Why did you vote yourself? What on earth is the point of that?Many good reasons. Most of which are not so good if I explain the reasoning behind them.
Shakerag, because it won't hammer now.Why is that a consideration? Either you want him dead or you don't.
Deus Asmoth: Was it you?There are things that have been me in the past. There may even be things that will have been me in the future. I'll need some context for your question if you want a real answer though.
I'll need some context for your question if you want a real answer though.
Shakerag: Nah, you're probably good, you performed a day kill, the odds of you having a day kill and poison aren't zero but they are low.The context, perhaps, was too hidden.
poisonI was poisoned. I'll die at the start of the next day. Because I'm a Yellow Goo, though, whoever poisoned me lost that ability and I gained it, meaning I can fire back.
Why is that a consideration? Either you want him dead or you don't.I want him dead, but I want us to have plenty of time to talk. I didn't hammer earlier because I wanted us to have more time to talk. What would be wrong with that? Except me getting poisoned in the time I let us have, anyway.
Role shenanigans warning!He has two. You voted Deus Asmoth in the post before the votecount. I just recounted.
Shakerag has 3 votes on him, but in the last count, he had only two. But the same two players are voting for him. Is this a mod mistake?
Persus13: Was it you?No. Do you think the poisoner will actually reveal himself? Especially considering you now have a poison ability.
Extends are a thing. It says so right in the OP.Yes. My bad. I was thinking of the shortens. At least now you read the rules.
Just look in the Addendums
I'm keeping my vote on BHK considering that he's done nothing but defend himself against attacks. Fallacy is jumpy and TDS reads fishy to me. DA and Shakes I'm leaning town on.I've pushed on Shakerag for his incredibly wise hipshot for no reason, and that's all I'm pushing on today because it'd be utterly ridiculous short of an investigative result pointing at someone else to simply *ignore that* for his lackluster reasons. You're just looking to get a quick lynch to buy yourself time, which means if it isn't Shakerag, it's you, but I feel as if we have enough townies to lynch you tomorrow if Shakerag turns out to be a policy lynch over a mafia lynch. Pretty safe town victory, eh?
TheDarkStar: Was it you?
Persus13: Was it you?
BlackHeartKabal: Was it you?
Deus Asmoth: Was it you?
Shakerag: Nah, you're probably good, you performed a day kill, the odds of you having a day kill and poison aren't zero but they are low.
I have 4 suspects, which is better than 5. Deus Asmoth is seeming a little jumpy, though, so I'll start with him.Is this a roundabout way to ask whather I think you're town or not? My answer to why someone would do what they would do kind of depends on whether the poisoned if mafia or not.
~~~
Deus Asmoth: "Hypothetically", if you were the poisoner, what reasons would you have not to poison me?
I'll just tell you now to assume I'll flip town and focus on everyone else.Well, you're going to die tomorrow(I like totally poisoned you), so yes, I'll focus on everyone else.
Is this a roundabout way to ask whather I think you're town or not? My answer to why someone would do what they would do kind of depends on whether the poisoned if mafia or not.Well, "hypothetically", the poisoner would have no knowledge of alignments other than that which he or she deduced. It's not a roundabout way of asking whether you think I'm town, it's a straightforward way of asking you what reasons you would have if you were the poisoner not to poison me, Deus Asmoth.
Deus AsmothYou're supposed to vote in red, but I'll count this one.
Fine, ignore Shakerag, whatever, any sensible townie with a killing role will resolve that by night.
Look, I like to think that I'm generally a reasonably polite person, but this is a really stupid question, to the point that I'd probably OMGUS you if I wasn't already voting for you. You're asking me to give you a reason for why I might not have done something, with zero context. The answer could literally be anything from "Because someone else could be a higher priority target" to "Because I might not feel like it." Explain to me how an answer could possibly have any benefit to you and I might put some more effort into it.Is this a roundabout way to ask whather I think you're town or not? My answer to why someone would do what they would do kind of depends on whether the poisoned if mafia or not.Well, "hypothetically", the poisoner would have no knowledge of alignments other than that which he or she deduced. It's not a roundabout way of asking whether you think I'm town, it's a straightforward way of asking you what reasons you would have if you were the poisoner not to poison me, Deus Asmoth.
Teneb did you miss my revote of BHK in my last post?Yes. My apologies.
Look, I like to think that I'm generally a reasonably polite person, but this is a really stupid question, to the point that I'd probably OMGUS you if I wasn't already voting for you. You're asking me to give you a reason for why I might not have done something, with zero context. The answer could literally be anything from "Because someone else could be a higher priority target" to "Because I might not feel like it." Explain to me how an answer could possibly have any benefit to you and I might put some more effort into it.The non-poisoner would just answer the question.
Is there anything against someone being KOTM two rounds in a row?No. KOTM is decided via random.org.
TDS - You seem like the kind of person who ends up sitting in the sidelines for most of the game before winning quietly. Correct me if I'm wrong?
Shakerag - deserved
Alright.
Hector - Why should I believe you didn't kill Shakerag out of revenge for last round?
Hector: If you had a daykill, who would you kill (other than Shakerag)? When would you use it?
FoU's scum again, though.If you're going to do this, you need to give some evidence for it.
Persus - Same as TDS.Considering that I was nearly a lynch target yesterday, I doubt it.
Deus Asmoth - Why Toxic Goo?Why not? It seemed like a good idea at the time, I guess. Plus if the king thinks I've taken the same role today I'm more like to get to make use of my new role.
FoU's scum again, though.If you're going to do this, you need to give some evidence for it.
Persus - Same as TDS.Considering that I was nearly a lynch target yesterday, I doubt it.
I interpreted that as an "I inspected Fallacy as scum last night".Whether or not that's accurate can wait until after Fallacy responds though.FoU's scum again, though.If you're going to do this, you need to give some evidence for it.
Do what? Make what is ostensibly an unsupported pressure vote with my first post of D1 in what, for me, is RVS, in a game in which the rules state you need to vote at least once per day?
I mean, it's not really worth commenting on if you're not FoU, is it?
BHK: Are you annoyed that I didn't ask anyone else questions?Yes, of course I am.
I interpreted that as an "I inspected Fallacy as scum last night".Whether or not that's accurate can wait until after Fallacy responds though.FoU's scum again, though.If you're going to do this, you need to give some evidence for it.
Do what? Make what is ostensibly an unsupported pressure vote with my first post of D1 in what, for me, is RVS, in a game in which the rules state you need to vote at least once per day?
I mean, it's not really worth commenting on if you're not FoU, is it?
Fallacy - Thanks for that.You're... welcome? But I didn't buff you. If you're being sarcastic, and actually referring to your loss of a bussing ability... well, I did claim yellow goo last round, it was your own choice to act on me. Actually, tell you what, I'll buff you. Maybe that'll help make up for the lack of your bussing ability. Provided you had said ability in the first place.
Fallacy: Who ended up as King Mafia this time?Frankly, I have no clue. Other than "not me".
Plus if the king thinks I've taken the same role today I'm more like to get to make use of my new role.The rules do state that taking roles that were recently taken in a previous round is a bad idea.
FoU's scum again, though.
I can only deduce is because you've put no effort into making yourself seem useful otherwise.... like TheDarkStar and Deus Asmoth? Who also haven't really scum hunted yet?
... like TheDarkStar and Deus Asmoth? Who also haven't really scum hunted yet?DA has literally posted one sentance, but TDS looks like he's made a start, and it is the weekend? What makes you feel like TDS hasn't done much yet in comparison to everyone else?
Hector - Why should I believe you didn't kill Shakerag out of revenge for last round?It's worth pointing out that King Mafia comes with a Mafiakill. So its likely that the King Mafia carried out the kill last night.
Why are you rolefishing BHK?BHK: Are you annoyed that I didn't ask anyone else questions?Yes, of course I am.
Did you vig the King Mafia last round? If no, who do you think did it?
Presently, I'm okay with keeping my vote where it started.What makes Fallacy stand out from the rest of the pack in terms of lack of activity?
FoU
Why the rolefishing?BHK: Are you annoyed that I didn't ask anyone else questions?Yes, of course I am.
Did you vig the King Mafia last round? If no, who do you think did it?
Why attempt to deflect attention to other players instead of actually addressing the claim he's levelled at you?I can only deduce is because you've put no effort into making yourself seem useful otherwise.... like TheDarkStar and Deus Asmoth? Who also haven't really scum hunted yet?
Do you think that killing Shakerag was a beneficial move for the town though?Alright.
Hector - Why should I believe you didn't kill Shakerag out of revenge for last round?
I'd like to believe y'all don't think I'm that petty.
I'm on mobile, quoting's a pain.Fallacy made a huge deal yesterday about the fact that he was poisoned, which is a day action that doesn't take effect until the morning of the following day. I see no reason not to believe him.
I'm asking because the King Mafia last round wasn't directly killed, which I'm aware of as a fact.
My bad time management stopped me from posting on Saturday.
~~~
There isn't much content to "pique my interest" yet, but it's enough for a little commentary...
You. I can understand RVS votes, but the way you phrased it implied you got a scum inspect result on me.
FoU's scum again, though.
Though you didn't elaborate on the inspect, if it exists.
Of course, there is the issue that the game is afoot... do you really have to do RVS all over again, hector? No, I'm not voting you because you're voting me, I'm voting you because you seem scummiest of all currently.
I can only deduce is because you've put no effort into making yourself seem useful otherwise.... like TheDarkStar and Deus Asmoth? Who also haven't really scum hunted yet?
... like TheDarkStar and Deus Asmoth? Who also haven't really scum hunted yet?DA has literally posted one sentance, but TDS looks like he's made a start, and it is the weekend? What makes you feel like TDS hasn't done much yet in comparison to everyone else?Hector - Why should I believe you didn't kill Shakerag out of revenge for last round?It's worth pointing out that King Mafia comes with a Mafiakill. So its likely that the King Mafia carried out the kill last night.Why are you rolefishing BHK?BHK: Are you annoyed that I didn't ask anyone else questions?Yes, of course I am.
Did you vig the King Mafia last round? If no, who do you think did it?Presently, I'm okay with keeping my vote where it started.What makes Fallacy stand out from the rest of the pack in terms of lack of activity?
FoU
BHK:Why the rolefishing?BHK: Are you annoyed that I didn't ask anyone else questions?Yes, of course I am.
Did you vig the King Mafia last round? If no, who do you think did it?
FOU:Why attempt to deflect attention to other players instead of actually addressing the claim he's levelled at you?I can only deduce is because you've put no effort into making yourself seem useful otherwise.... like TheDarkStar and Deus Asmoth? Who also haven't really scum hunted yet?
hector:Do you think that killing Shakerag was a beneficial move for the town though?Alright.
Hector - Why should I believe you didn't kill Shakerag out of revenge for last round?
I'd like to believe y'all don't think I'm that petty.
To be fair, you should've mentioned Persus, he made a post saying he probably wouldn't like to stand about on the sidelines, and did just that until recently.I didn't take issue with that, I took issue with the comment that I'd win through that.
It could be redirectedIf you mean the actual poison kill being redirected, he lied then. If not, it's either way. I guess he'll tell us when it's over.
Day end is in about 3 hours, so I'm going to go ahead and vote TheDarkStar. BHK's responses have convinced me he's likely not King Mafia, and I'm reading the hector vs. Fallacy fight as town vs. town, so that leaves DA or TDS, and TDS feels more shady to me.Right, I just noticed this. If Fallacy was lying about being poisoned, then I know for a fact that there's a living vig/killing role, but I'm not certain if they're King Mafia or not. But if they aren't... lynch one, vig the other, problem solved?
Day end is in about 3 hours, so I'm going to go ahead and vote TheDarkStar. BHK's responses have convinced me he's likely not King Mafia, and I'm reading the hector vs. Fallacy fight as town vs. town, so that leaves DA or TDS, and TDS feels more shady to me.
Day end is in about 3 hours, so I'm going to go ahead and vote TheDarkStar. BHK's responses have convinced me he's likely not King Mafia, and I'm reading the hector vs. Fallacy fight as town vs. town, so that leaves DA or TDS, and TDS feels more shady to me.Right, I just noticed this. If Fallacy was lying about being poisoned, then I know for a fact that there's a living vig/killing role, but I'm not certain if they're King Mafia or not. But if they aren't... lynch one, vig the other, problem solved?
You're making this way more confusing than it is. Fallacy got poisoned during Day 1 and died at the start of the next. This means that he was poisoned by a poisoner, and not by a Kafka or a Cookie Baker. Its possible for that poison kill to be redirected, but it needed to happen when he was poisoned, which was on Day 1. There's also a role that cures poisons, but I doubt anyone picked that, much less cured Fallacy. Fallacy claimed being poisoned, claimed having received the poison ability because of his Yellow Goo role, and claimed that he used it on Shakerag. He and Shakerag then died during the start of Day 2, exactly like they would have if they had been poisoned. Why do you think Fallacy lied?It could be redirectedIf you mean the actual poison kill being redirected, he lied then. If not, it's either way. I guess he'll tell us when it's over.
BlackHeartCabal"Why do you think Fallacy lied?"You're making this way more confusing than it is. Fallacy got poisoned during Day 1 and died at the start of the next. This means that he was poisoned by a poisoner, and not by a Kafka or a Cookie Baker. Its possible for that poison kill to be redirected, but it needed to happen when he was poisoned, which was on Day 1. There's also a role that cures poisons, but I doubt anyone picked that, much less cured Fallacy. Fallacy claimed being poisoned, claimed having received the poison ability because of his Yellow Goo role, and claimed that he used it on Shakerag. He and Shakerag then died during the start of Day 2, exactly like they would have if they had been poisoned. Why do you think Fallacy lied?It could be redirectedIf you mean the actual poison kill being redirected, he lied then. If not, it's either way. I guess he'll tell us when it's over.
Why are you trying to figure out if there is a vig? The person who benefits most from knowing who is a Vig is the king Mafia, because they're most dangerous. If you're town, trying to find any vigs does nothing useful and tells the King Mafia who they are.
"Why do you think Fallacy lied?"But the evidence we see refutes this.
He was King Mafia. That's a good reason as any.
"Why are you trying to figure out if there is a vig?"...and narrowing down who the vig is helps the town how?
I wasn't trying to find out who the vig is, I was trying to find out who it isn't. I wasn't aware that the actual poison kill takes place during the morning and not at night, so I got confused due to my actions last round.
My logic was - two prime suspects of 6 players, 3 people left. Lynch 1, 5 people at night, vig kills the other, if either is KM, we win, if either isn't, vig confirms and we kill the KM and win, but looking at it, I see how flawed it is.
I figured that this would be *some* sort of a lead during RVS, but now I get your point.
BlackHeartKabal1 - Morning kills aren't a common mechanic. I figured that poison could be redirected, and assuming that, I figured that it would be feasible he would be lying."Why do you think Fallacy lied?"But the evidence we see refutes this.
He was King Mafia. That's a good reason as any."Why are you trying to figure out if there is a vig?"...and narrowing down who the vig is helps the town how?
I wasn't trying to find out who the vig is, I was trying to find out who it isn't. I wasn't aware that the actual poison kill takes place during the morning and not at night, so I got confused due to my actions last round.My logic was - two prime suspects of 6 players, 3 people left. Lynch 1, 5 people at night, vig kills the other, if either is KM, we win, if either isn't, vig confirms and we kill the KM and win, but looking at it, I see how flawed it is.
I figured that this would be *some* sort of a lead during RVS, but now I get your point.
Anyone can be chosen as the King Mafia (including the vig). And your plan appears to assume that everyone trusts you, which is definitely not the case.
2 - Confirming who it is in the event that the two top suspects aren't KM doesn't?Confirming if there's a vig merely tells the King Mafia WHO HAS A MAFIAKILL, that someone's gunning for him.
3 - Yeah, everyone doesn't trust me. In fact, since nobody has everyone's trust, let's not plan at all, let's just random lynch until someone eventually wins. Not like my plan is any worse than RVS in general.
FoU[1] I would have replied just the same.
[1] How inclined would you be to respond if I implied I had zip on you?
[2] Yet you feel inclined to tell us that, implying that, yes, in fact, you are.
[3] Also, what other than RVS do we have to go on? A single kill during the night that was very likely the KM.
[4] They also haven't tried to get across that they can buff people, making them seem more useful than they actually are.
[5] To be fair, you should've mentioned Persus, he made a post saying he probably wouldn't like to stand about on the sidelines, and did just that until recently.
I'm not manufacturing anything about you, man. [7] You brought up the OMGUS when you voted me, and provided no evidence beyond "hector says I'm scummy" to support that vote. That's pretty much the definition of an OMGUS, no?A wild wall of questions approaches.
What legitimate grievance do you have? There are six players still alive, five that you can reasonably interact with... and the only one you think is scummy is the one voting for you. [5] What method of pressure am a I using to make you look scummy? [6] What other methods might I employ that don't do that? Would they be better?
We can discuss previous rounds. [3] How much influence do previous rounds have on any player's alignment in this and future rounds? What parts of Round 1 help us with in Round 2?
[4] Telling players you can buff them is basically you saying "My first post is 10 hours before the deadline as we know it, I haven't done anything with the day game, but I can make up for that by helping the town during the night!"
[1] What do you mean when you say I'm red herring your attacks? [2] Why do you want to deflect my suspicions rather than dealing with them yourself?
With this.I can only deduce is because you've put no effort into making yourself seem useful otherwise.... like TheDarkStar and Deus Asmoth? Who also haven't really scum hunted yet?
They also haven't tried to get across that they can buff people, making them seem more useful than they actually are.The first bit deflecting my defense by referring to evidence on another point, the second, pointless. A pair of smelly red herrings.
To be fair, you should've mentioned Persus, he made a post saying he probably wouldn't like to stand about on the sidelines, and did just that until recently.
do you really have to do RVS all over again, hector?
What makes Fallacy stand out from the rest of the pack in terms of lack of activity?Bolding mine.
This is King of the Mafia. All mechanics are player chosen, so speculating over something being a "common mechanic" is useless. People are going to choose roles that are powerful.Because I tried to redirect the poisoning itself, thinking it wasn't a morning kill, so I thought he lied.
So why would Fallacy lie about being poisoned, and why would that attract someone to kill him?
It's also not a morning kill, because it happens the day before. Unless you had a day redirect you wouldn't be able to do anything about it.Can you not redirect the actual kill?
PFP
It's also not a morning kill, because it happens the day before. Unless you had a day redirect you wouldn't be able to do anything about it.Can you not redirect the actual kill?
PFP
Well, what is there to say now?
Except you should all be voting hector13. BlackHeartKabal doesn't seem scummy to me.
I'm asking the question because I was interested in your opinion on someone killing a trigger-happy day killer, though now I'm more interested in the reason for your unwillingness to answer.
I don't understand the question. Well, more specifically I don't understand why you're asking the question.
hector:I'm asking the question because I was interested in your opinion on someone killing a trigger-happy day killer, though now I'm more interested in the reason for your unwillingness to answer.
I don't understand the question. Well, more specifically I don't understand why you're asking the question.
FOU: If hector were king mafia, don't you think it would be more likely that he'd have killed Shakerag because he had the ability to daykill rather than for revenge for past actions?Daykiller Shakerag was last round(he died from my poison). This round Shakerag was a Dirty Bomber. Hilarious, but not a daykiller.
As regards BHK, rolefishing seems pretty scummy to me.And as one of the top two suspects, you've the utmost authority on this, especially since I was doing it for the sake of winning the round (with what turned out to be faulty logic, welp)?
This on top of piggybacking on other people's questions.... no, probably not. I'll look for it.
wtf r u talking about?
I agree with hector13 on this. What makes you think both of us are town?In their defense, you aren't exactly telling them your opinion why, even if you think it's implied.
And I'm going to note that you really shouldn't lynch BHK. Really.
Wasting time so people have to go "wtf r u talking about?" instead of telling us.Yeah, I saw the sentence as a whole and didn't realize you were asking me a question.
Wasting time so people have to go "wtf r u talking about?" instead of telling us.Yeah, I saw the sentence as a whole and didn't realize you were asking me a question.
One. Because BHK is town, as far as I think.
Two. Because I'm a Magistrate and my buff is making somebody immune to the lynch.
Why does it take you 5 posts to tell us something useful?
Do you think you'll get the town to follow you by unsubtly implying they're wasting their time?
Whether you answer yes or no, why do you think that?
Why do you think I am scum?
Why do you think BHK is town?
Did you use your buff on BHK?
If so, do you know how long the magistrate buff lasts?
To be fair, at this point I want to lynch you so you're not in the game anymore. Interacting with you is like being forced to peel the skin from my hands and eat my finger bones.Suggestions for getting better, then? I would rather not torture my fellow players.
[4]. Your posts make it look like you're trying to provoke me into voting you then frame me for an OMGUS, when I actually am in fact voting you because you're scummy. You decided RVS was necessary on the first day of a different round, where we had plenty to discuss from the previous round. I think you killed Shakerag with your mafiakill for revenge.
Firstly, we can compare behavior in a previous round with behavior in the current round and attempt to detect differences. Secondly, players that survive a previous round as town keep their role.
Firstly, we can compare behavior in a previous round with behavior in the current round and attempt to detect differences. Secondly, players that survive a previous round as town keep their role.
Plenty to discuss.
[4]. Your posts make it look like you're trying to provoke me into voting you then frame me for an OMGUS, when I actually am in fact voting you because you're scummy. You decided RVS was necessary on the first day of a different round, where we had plenty to discuss from the previous round. I think you killed Shakerag with your mafiakill for revenge.I was told the only relevance the previous round has is roles, and only us two have claimed.
[4]. Your posts make it look like you're trying to provoke me into voting you then frame me for an OMGUS, when I actually am in fact voting you because you're scummy. You decided RVS was necessary on the first day of a different round, where we had plenty to discuss from the previous round. I think you killed Shakerag with your mafiakill for revenge.I was told the only relevance the previous round has is roles, and only us two have claimed.
Everyone, be nice. Is just game. Why you heff to be mad?
Too busy defending myself.
If you agree with me on that, why haven't you discussed it?
I was told the only relevance the previous round has is roles, and only us two have claimed.
Firstly, we can compare behavior in a previous round with behavior in the current round and attempt to detect differences.
Are you incapable of multi-tasking?That's one of the major flaws of my mafia play. Which is to say yes, in this context at least. Something I need to improve. Any suggestions?
There wasn't anything to discuss. You're the one saying there was.Your response seemed to imply you agreed with me, suppose I was wrong then.
I didn't post all of yesterday. Why not bring something up then?Too busy waiting for you to respond(yeah, I see the problem. I get stupidly focused, don't I?).
The other guys discussed your poisoning, claim, the vagaries of the poison ability, your flip, and how it relates to BHK today.Not really. Might be more to it if I look back, but I'm focused on dealing with you for now.
a) was any of that useful for your assessment of those players?
b) what else was there to discuss? If this plays a significant assessment of why you think I'm scum for preferring RVS over this as-yet-mysterious content, I think the others may want to know what you're talking about.I suppose at the beginning of R2 D1 there wasn't much content to compare to R1.
[1] What did you know about regarding player actions in the previous round that could have been discussed when I was doing RVS?
[2] Why do you think TDS and BHK engaged in RVS behaviour at the start of D2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=164885.msg7527699#msg7527699)? Are they scum too?
[3] Do you think BHK asking DA why he chose Toxic Goo for Round 1 will help us dovone his alignment Round 2?
[4] Did you Buff BHK on N0?(!)
Can you clarify a bit? You mentioned thinking you'd redirected a vig, but what does that have to do with trying to identify the vig in question? I'm kind of curious about what you meant by the first part as well, but I doubt it has much game usefulness, so you can ignore that bit if you want.As regards BHK, rolefishing seems pretty scummy to me.And as one of the top two suspects, you've the utmost authority on this, especially since I was doing it for the sake of winning the round (with what turned out to be faulty logic, welp)?
Yeah, this is actually me being dumb, sorry. I forgot Shake died last round for some reason.FOU: If hector were king mafia, don't you think it would be more likely that he'd have killed Shakerag because he had the ability to daykill rather than for revenge for past actions?Daykiller Shakerag was last round(he died from my poison). This round Shakerag was a Dirty Bomber. Hilarious, but not a daykiller.
Also, how would the King Mafia know that Shakerag could day kill, if Shakerag could day kill this round?
I find your question interesting.
~~~
[4] Okay, at this point you're role fishing. Weakly. For your information, pardoning somebody via Magistrate is a day action. Seriously, you could just go onto the role list and look up Magistrate.How is it rolefishing to ask you about the possible actions you've taken with the role you've already publicly claimed?
Magistrate (town; uncommon; 4+ players): You may pardon someone during the day. If the chosen player is lynched, they return to life. You can't pardon yourself. Actions: (day)pardon
[1] What did you know about regarding player actions in the previous round that could have been discussed when I was doing RVS?
[2] Why do you think TDS and BHK engaged in RVS behaviour at the start of D2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=164885.msg7527699#msg7527699)? Are they scum too?
[3] Do you think BHK asking DA why he chose Toxic Goo for Round 1 will help us dovone his alignment Round 2?
[4] Did you Buff BHK on N0?(!)
[1] It isn't all about what I know. I could, however, have discussed players losing their abilities by targeting me(when I was a Yellow Goo) and which players currently have lost their abilities(BHK who lost a bussing ability and somebody unknown who lost a poison ability... actually, I can deduce TheDarkStar or Persus13 was the poisoner based on BHK being a busser and the other players having their roles revealed by death). Also, it looks like you're asking loaded questions again. You now respond with "Why didn't you actually do that while I was doing RVS?"
[2] Actually, BHK's stuff was mostly not RVS. A legitimate if weak on its own suspicion, informing me he lost an ability from me, anti-lurk prods, a question based on the previous round, and not a question at all. TheDarkStar is trickier. Odd thing being he stated he didn't like RVS and two of his three questions were much closer to being RVS than those to BHK. The second question he asked, though, was more like asking for reads.
I suppose it's not just going back into RVS. Thinking more specifically, it's focusing on RVS and nothing else(which you did). I can't say it hasn't produced results in the form of loads of talk, but there were better options, which I have previously elaborated on.
[3] There's more considerations than just alignment... also how is this question relevant?
[4] Okay, at this point you're role fishing. Weakly. For your information, pardoning somebody via Magistrate is a day action. Seriously, you could just go onto the role list and look up Magistrate.
BHK:As a credible candidate to be King Mafia, it makes sense you'd push on an already controversial target. That, and I thought by identifying him we could confirm him, but forgot about the round thing. I bussed myself and him and I thought since he dief anyway, a vig killed him, and not the poison, since I redirected it (I thought.) Blame my ignorance, I apologise.Can you clarify a bit? You mentioned thinking you'd redirected a vig, but what does that have to do with trying to identify the vig in question? I'm kind of curious about what you meant by the first part as well, but I doubt it has much game usefulness, so you can ignore that bit if you want.As regards BHK, rolefishing seems pretty scummy to me.And as one of the top two suspects, you've the utmost authority on this, especially since I was doing it for the sake of winning the round (with what turned out to be faulty logic, welp)?
...and my internet stopped working for like 12 hours.I have a lot of work atm, which drains a lot of my time on weekdays.
Anyway, I'm slightly confused about the last several posts. Mostly about why people think there's a vig around and why everyone is talking past each other. Currently everyone feels like they're trying to tunnel on someone (FOU/hector, for example) and they aren't getting anywhere.
Persus13 hasn't said much recently, though, and I'd like to hear more from him. Everyone else seems to be arguing like town.
What makes you think FoU and I are town?Mainly the fact that you both seem genuinely convinced that the other is scum. I've seen Fallacy play scum in the BYOR and I was somewhat suspicious of him last round. I'm not getting much of a scum vibe of him at the moment, especially since he claimed his role. You've also been playing pretty well today, other than your tunneling of Fallacy.
What makes Persus more suspicious than DA?Why DA?
Alternatively:
What makes DA's fewer posts of higher town quality than Persus' many?
This was basically my reaction too. I assumed that question was rhetorical.Wasting time so people have to go "wtf r u talking about?" instead of telling us.Yeah, I saw the sentence as a whole and didn't realize you were asking me a question.
Two. Because I'm a Magistrate and my buff is making somebody immune to the lynch.When did you decide to pardon him?
If we know you buffed BHK N0, we know you didn't perform the kill on Shakerag, which was likely carried out by the King Mafia. So this is a case where rolefishing is warranted. Besides, you claimed already.[4] Did you Buff BHK on N0?(!)[4] Okay, at this point you're role fishing. Weakly. For your information, pardoning somebody via Magistrate is a day action. Seriously, you could just go onto the role list and look up Magistrate.
I can deduce TheDarkStar or Persus13 was the poisoner based on BHK being a busser and the other players having their roles revealed by death).Yeah, it was me.
[1] When did you decide to pardon him?[1] Near the start of the day, when he sarcastically thanked me for stealing his bus driver ability last round. Decided to pay him back, because why not?
[2] If we know you buffed BHK N0, we know you didn't perform the kill on Shakerag, which was likely carried out by the King Mafia. So this is a case where rolefishing is warranted. Besides, you claimed already.
Not sure why BHK is speculating on NKs though, I would've thought FoU or I would have been better, to throw massive shade on the other if they flip town.It's honestly down to wifom/"what would I do in this situation", and because I'm a relatively bad mafia player, it's, yet again, probably inaccuracy. It makes sense in my mind, though.
TheDarkStar: What's a mistake you find yourself making when you're scum?
BlackHeartKabal: Under what circumstances would you join a bandwagon?If I feel the target is actually mafia.
BlackHeartKabal killed hector13 last night. This is not an RVS vote.Sure.
Shorten.
NotQuiteThere: What's a mistake you find yourself making when you're scum?Not developing and pushing suspicions.
Deus Asmoth: What's your favourite scumtell?My favourite is probably when a confirmed cop says that they've inspected someone and that they're scum, but that doesn't happy all too often for some reason.
BHK, you don't deny it?Considering I didn't visit him, it's one hell of a stretch, but let's go along with it because apparently I have some form of telekinesis or something.
Persus: do we have any reason to believe you here, or is this a 'lynch me if I'm wrong' type deal?I stated all I know, so yeah, its a lynch me if I'm wrong type deal.
For a guy whose claiming to be falsely accused, you're strangely calm.BHK, you don't deny it?Considering I didn't visit him, it's one hell of a stretch, but let's go along with it because apparently I have some form of telekinesis or something.
My thrill for the game is winding down.For a guy whose claiming to be falsely accused, you're strangely calm.BHK, you don't deny it?Considering I didn't visit him, it's one hell of a stretch, but let's go along with it because apparently I have some form of telekinesis or something.
prefuzek:Deus Asmoth: What's your favourite scumtell?My favourite is probably when a confirmed cop says that they've inspected someone and that they're scum, but that doesn't happy all too often for some reason.
Persus: Any specifics? Was it identified as BHK or just your target? Do you know it was a kill action?Well, my role just got changed to something else, so I'll go into more detail. I was a Forensics Expert. I inspected hector's dead body as soon as I saw the day had started, and was told BHK killed him.
3 or 4 to hammer?Half living players. So 3.
(also that round earlier was completely hilarious)The one where you got daykilled or the one where BHK was king Mafia?
Fallacy being a Mad Scientist explains why my role keeps changing. Which is a shame, because I really like Forensics Expert.Doesn't really explain why mine changed though. Happened during the last day phase.
By 'the next night', I mean 'last night'. Obviously :PThat happened to me too. Perhaps he did it to the Network Robot.Fallacy being a Mad Scientist explains why my role keeps changing. Which is a shame, because I really like Forensics Expert.Doesn't really explain why mine changed though. Happened during the last day phase.
TheDarkStar: Shouldn't everyone get the Faerie Godmother ability (that is, target someone to give them a revive)? Also, I didn't get any abilities the next night.
Shakerag, why did you target Deus Asmoth last night?I didn't, you armpit sniffer. Why are you making baseless accusations?
*double checks pms*
Oops.
TDS, why did you target Deus Asmoth last night?
Fallacy being a Mad Scientist explains why my role keeps changing. Which is a shame, because I really like Forensics Expert.
You and Shakerag didn't take the bait, Prefuzek's being nice and pushy, which leaves Persus as best scum fit.Astonishing, how you're so certain after so little substance. You're pretty sure on him being scum then? What makes being last to vote scummy?
Mine happened in the middle of the day.
Yep, got the one-shot revive now. Still not sure how that all works, since it seems like everyone was targeted by the ability (faerie godmother/role randomize) rather than gaining it.Weekend. Plus busy with real life stuff.
Persus: Why aren't you doing anything useful?
Evidence:1. I don't use my vote all that much.
1. Persus (along with Shakerag) is last to vote (i.e. hasn't yet)
2. They've only posted explanatory posts, no pressure from them at all.
3. This looks like an attempt to explain later on if they're caught doing a different kind of night action:Fallacy being a Mad Scientist explains why my role keeps changing. Which is a shame, because I really like Forensics Expert.
Persus
That's about the same time mine changed. I didn't get Purple Goo though.Mine happened in the middle of the day.
Clarification: this happened in the middle of the Round 4 day, August 24.
Reluctance to push cases is scum 101. This is basic stuff here. What do you think is more suspicious: 1. Being helpful and unobtrusive? 2. Making attacks and accusations all over the place?What's the motive for not pushing cases as scum? They have people they want to lynch just as much as town does. Any scum with the slightest bit of intelligence is never going to think "hey, maybe if I just don't vote and don't put pressure, nobody will lynch me".
Well I'm voteless. Anyone wanna claim why?That was me. I picked you to possibly target the King Mafia, you flipped to NQT pretty fast yesterday. My night action has a clear effect, so I figured that using it would demonstrate that I am not the King Mafia, as there were two kills again.
Teneb: If a faerie godmother were to target a network robot, what ability would everyone receive?
What's the motive for not pushing cases as scum? They have people they want to lynch just as much as town does. Any scum with the slightest bit of intelligence is never going to think "hey, maybe if I just don't vote and don't put pressure, nobody will lynch me".It's more about an actual lack of real suspects and a reluctance to pull retaliatory votes. It's not every player, sure, but this is basic scum (or 3rd party) tell that is born out in many games I've played.
Interestingly, TheDarkStar's vote on himself didn't count last round. I can only presume he was vote blocked. And he was a network robot. Meaning a lot of people here can vote block other people, am I right?I didn't use voteblock on TDS. And my role switched, so I can't do that again.
Persus, why are you so scum, you scum?I wish.
Looks like it's just because the hammer came before TheDarkStar's post, so the post wasn't counted. Teneb?Correct.
If anyone quickhammers Persus they're obviously scum. If not,'They' as in Persus or the hammerer? What if I choose not to convince you at the moment?preciseprefuzek is the man we're after.
Persus should convince me to vote elsewhere. Prefuzek should convince me not to.
To be fair, my role should have changed too. The role description does say everyone Teneb :PAll other players. If I didn't include that in the pm, my bad.
Why are you padding your post-count with nonsense, FoU?Loaded question. Your assumption is that I'm active lurking, asking why I'm active lurking is invalid as I'm not actually active lurking. Also, you're saying I'm active lurking after looking at the first two posts of mine this day. That doesn't make much sense.
What do you think of prefuzek confusing who I was saying would be scum between Persus and a hypothetical quick-hammerer?Hm.
'They' as in Persus or the hammerer?That they didn't go far enough in examining your statement. If they went a little further, they would have noticed that Persus being scum if someone quick-hammers him makes no sense.
hector13: Why choose Dirty Bomb as a role? And why use it now? How does that help the town?
Why are you padding your post-count with nonsense, FoU?Loaded question. Your assumption is that I'm active lurking, asking why I'm active lurking is invalid as I'm not actually active lurking. Also, you're saying I'm active lurking after looking at the first two posts of mine this day. That doesn't make much sense.
What do you think of prefuzek confusing who I was saying would be scum between Persus and a hypothetical quick-hammerer?Hm.'They' as in Persus or the hammerer?That they didn't go far enough in examining your statement. If they went a little further, they would have noticed that Persus being scum if someone quick-hammers him makes no sense.
~~~
... why did you vote Persus anyway, hector? Do you think he's scummy or worth pressuring? If you're planting a trap, do you think you're going to be able to catch anybody in such an obvious trap?
[1] So you think I'm suspicious enough for an FoS for my choice of role two games ago? Cool, cool.[1] The suspicion is more from the fact that using the Dirty Bomb ability doesn't help town. Unless it does somehow(in which case, please explain)?
[2] It's a one-shot and it messes with people's plans for the game at large. I want to win, not have people be comfortable with what they have, and I'm okay with being vanilla once it's done.
No, I'm saying it was an empty post. Three people commented on roles being changed, one of which claimed it. It added nothing to the game.Hm.
"Why are you posting nothing?" would perhaps have been a better question.
Did anyone else's role get changed last night?~~~
Precisely. Nobody is going to quick-hammer Persus, especially when I point out it's an option. Gets more pressure on Persus and brings me and prefuzek into the spotlight because someone is L-1 in the first moments of the game as a result of our votes.This does make sense. Interesting tactic.
Unfortunately this means people like DA coast by, but we get better reads on us three.
I didn't use voteblock on TDS. And my role switched, so I can't do that again.Why didn't TDS's vote count last round, then? Was he hammered before he voted himself?
??? why would Persus be scum if someone else quick-hammers him? Town have no reason to quick-hammer, with the exception of confirmed scum.Exactly.
Considering that, Why are you not approaching the basic assumption I'm making: that Persus is town?Nah, what's wasting the pressure is you asking me to explain my vote, since now it's revealed that the question was basically just another version of "are you scum?" (though it seems like it's about 300% more effective at getting things going, with your help).
I mean, if you choose not to convince me, you're kinda wasting any pressure you have on Persus, making your current vote irrelevant. In turn making my vote a bit less useful in turn... not sure I like that. What would you gain in doing that?
If not,preciseprefuzek is the man we're after.
Hector's correct here that this is an awful FoS, but what's even worse is that it's an FoS. Why not put your vote down? We're 12 posts into the game here - it's still basically RVS.hector13: Why choose Dirty Bomb as a role? And why use it now? How does that help the town?
So you think I'm suspicious enough for an FoS for my choice of role two games ago? Cool, cool.
Not sure if using the phrase 'active lurking' three times in a sentence is a stylistic choice, but it comes off super desperate to me. Very dismissive.Why are you padding your post-count with nonsense, FoU?Loaded question. Your assumption is that I'm active lurking, asking why I'm active lurking is invalid as I'm not actually active lurking. Also, you're saying I'm active lurking after looking at the first two posts of mine this day. That doesn't make much sense.
The 'hm' makes it look like you're thinking about something, which is clearly not true since you just reiterated what Hector said about it here:What do you think of prefuzek confusing who I was saying would be scum between Persus and a hypothetical quick-hammerer?Hm.'They' as in Persus or the hammerer?That they didn't go far enough in examining your statement. If they went a little further, they would have noticed that Persus being scum if someone quick-hammers him makes no sense.
??? why would Persus be scum if someone else quick-hammers him? Town have no reason to quick-hammer, with the exception of confirmed scum.
... why did you vote Persus anyway, hector? Do you think he's scummy or worth pressuring? If you're planting a trap, do you think you're going to be able to catch anybody in such an obvious trap?And then finally a softball to the person you should be voting. This looks like you know Hector's town and you know you're not going to be able to lynch him, so you just want to have a nice conversation about motives.
And one final thing: if you were an arms dealer, why not use it as soon as the day started? You were obviously around before your role got changed, since you got in the first post of the day.Why should I use my only ability, a 1-shot, at the very start of the game? I planned on saving it.
Hector's correct here that this is an awful FoS, but what's even worse is that it's an FoS. Why not put your vote down? We're 12 posts into the game here - it's still basically RVS.I was considering as to whether or not hector was scummy enough to vote.
Not sure if using the phrase 'active lurking' three times in a sentence is a stylistic choice, but it comes off super desperate to me. Very dismissive.I'm not seeing that. Very subjective.
And then finally a softball to the person you should be voting. This looks like you know Hector's town and you know you're not going to be able to lynch him, so you just want to have a nice conversation about motives.Because again, I wasn't sure if hector13 was scum(and for that matter, I was leaning town).
The 'hm' makes it look like you're thinking about something, which is clearly not true since you just reiterated what Hector said about it here:I was answering hector's question. The first of my two sentences:
Exactly. Hector asked you a question, and you answered it with Hector's own answer.The 'hm' makes it look like you're thinking about something, which is clearly not true since you just reiterated what Hector said about it here:I was answering hector's question. The first of my two sentences:
"That they didn't go far enough in examining your statement."
Which was the answer to hector's question.
Yep. Did you read the thread?I didn't use voteblock on TDS. And my role switched, so I can't do that again.Why didn't TDS's vote count last round, then? Was he hammered before he voted himself?
Looks like it's just because the hammer came before TheDarkStar's post, so the post wasn't counted. Teneb?Correct.
Day ends 22:00 BRT of the 12th of September.Is this a typo? Because that means we'd have over a week left in the day.
And how were you planning on figuring out whether Hector was scummy or not, Softballing and FoS-ing? Why not vote and grill him? Basically, you're still not really doing anything that looks like you're at all interested in figuring out who the mafia is.By observing his behavior, of course. So far he's looking like town, though I'm still not sure how using his Dirty Bomb ability helped the town or helped him win.
You should use your 1-shot because it gives you the most information at the start of the game (before people die, switch roles etc). I mean, it would have been useless now anyway, but these are weird circumstances.There's also the option of saving it for the next round, or waiting until a few people die. It would actually tell me more if there were fewer people. Arms Dealer counts the number of kills in the game. If I were to use it with three people left and I got a 2 kills result, I would know there were two killing roles left and only two killing roles left, one of them being the King of the Mafia... and whoever claims a non-killing role other than me is King Mafia.
Exactly. Hector asked you a question, and you answered it with Hector's own answer.Does the fact that it's hector's answer make it wrong?
Yep. Did you read the thread?Not well enough, apparently.
But you already thought he was town (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=164885.msg7555591#msg7555591). So why FoS him, if you think he's town and you're not going to put pressure on him? And why do/did you think he's town - he plays well and makes few mistakes, even (I'm assuming) when he's scum.And how were you planning on figuring out whether Hector was scummy or not, Softballing and FoS-ing? Why not vote and grill him? Basically, you're still not really doing anything that looks like you're at all interested in figuring out who the mafia is.By observing his behavior, of course. So far he's looking like town, though I'm still not sure how using his Dirty Bomb ability helped the town or helped him win.
There's also the option of saving it for the next round, or waiting until a few people die. It would actually tell me more if there were fewer people. Arms Dealer counts the number of kills in the game. If I were to use it with three people left and I got a 2 kills result, I would know there were two killing roles left and only two killing roles left, one of them being the King of the Mafia... and whoever claims a non-killing role other than me is King Mafia.But let's say in this circumstance you instead used it at the beginning of the game, and there are no role-switching shenanigans. Since you get to see death-flips, by the point there are three people left, you know the same amount of information - but you also knew it earlier.
Does the fact that it's hector's answer make it wrong?No, it makes it lazy and over-cautious.
Why does my use of the dirty bomb bother you so much? It's neither town- or scum-motivated. I chose it to use it as soon as possible, two games ago. It doesn't tell you anything about my alignment.You choose to use it as soon as possible... two games ago... so you use it now?
Persus: How late is later today?How does right now sound? I'm a little busy, sorry about that.
But anyway Fallacy is 100% scum. This post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=164885.msg7554853#msg7554853) basically says "I'm going to be as cautious as I can, and please don't anybody notice me".I'm inclined to agree with you. I'm seeing parallels to Round 1, where Fallacy was more interested in retaliating against the player who wronged him than in finding the King Mafia.
Pfft, I'm going to continue pickling mySo how did this work out for you?lover lol I didn't kill her no really I didn't stop saying that you bastard I didn't do it it was like that when I got there the beer no I'm not celebrating I didn't notice what's that over there BLAMliver for the evening.
If anyone quickhammers Persus they're obviously scum. If not,preciseprefuzek is the man we're after.
Persus should convince me to vote elsewhere. Prefuzek should convince me not to.
What do you think of prefuzek confusing who I was saying would be scum between Persus and a hypothetical quick-hammerer?This question was directed at Fallacy, but I think you were being kind of vague, and prefuzek's request for clarification was warranted.
Okay, what ze heck.Did you even read the thread before posting this? Literally everyone commented on the role changing thing. Why do you care more about retaliating for the role change then finding the King Mafia?
My role changed. I used to be an Arms Dealer, 1-shot kill count during the day, but now I'm [REDACTED]. If any of you are an Arms Dealer now, or know what my new role is, please claim. Something funny's going on.
hector13: Why choose Dirty Bomb as a role? And why use it now? How does that help the town?Why are you attacking hector for a choice he made before the game started? Also:
Round 2:
-Shakerag- Dirty Bomber (Town)
Round 5:
-Shakerag- Dirty Bomber (Town)
Why does the Dirty Bomb ability not help town? Its not like town loses their roles. They may get a worse one, but so will the King Mafia.[1] So you think I'm suspicious enough for an FoS for my choice of role two games ago? Cool, cool.[1] The suspicion is more from the fact that using the Dirty Bomb ability doesn't help town. Unless it does somehow(in which case, please explain)?
[2] It's a one-shot and it messes with people's plans for the game at large. I want to win, not have people be comfortable with what they have, and I'm okay with being vanilla once it's done.
And your decision?Hector's correct here that this is an awful FoS, but what's even worse is that it's an FoS. Why not put your vote down? We're 12 posts into the game here - it's still basically RVS.I was considering as to whether or not hector was scummy enough to vote.
Totes just you changing things to suit you post-hoc, man. /sNot too much, but I'll survive.
DA: happy with your new role?
Deus Asmoth, hector1: Welcome back into the fray. How do you plan on finding Mafia this round?In a perfect world I'd get to keep my role for more than zero rounds and also get to stay alive long enough to make use of it. Aside from that I guess I'll keep muddling around.
FOU:[/color] do you have a scum pick at the minute?No, though it would help if you and Persus did some more posting. As for town picks, though, so far, hector and prefuzek are looking fairly town as a result of their scum hunting(of me).
Did you even read the thread before posting this? Literally everyone commented on the role changing thing. Why do you care more about retaliating for the role change then finding the King Mafia?I don't care more about stating that my role changed as well than finding the King Mafia, it's just what I choose to open with.
Why are you attacking hector for a choice he made before the game started? Also:It's not so much that he choose Dirty Bomber, but that he choose to use it now, at the beginning of the round. And his justification is funny. It helps him win... how?Round 2:
-Shakerag- Dirty Bomber (Town)
Round 5:
-Shakerag- Dirty Bomber (Town)
Why does the Dirty Bomb ability not help town? Its not like town loses their roles. They may get a worse one, but so will the King Mafia.Mainly because it disrupts planning. There are more town whose plans are disrupted than mafia whose plans are disrupted.
And your decision?So far, hector's scum hunting outweighs his non-town use of his Dirty Bomb ability. Town read.
To sum up. DA is a no show, Prefuzek seems town. Hector13 is drawing a lot of attention to himself, and is being fairly open, which are good signs, but I'm finding his hammer gambit a bit weird. However, Fallacy has done nothing today to find the King of the Mafia, and is more interested in a halfhearted retaliation against Hector for changing his role.Actually, I appreciate that hector changed my role, my current role is a bit better, come to think about it. I just don't find using a Dirty Bomb ability to be town.
You disappearing was interesting, though not unexpected. I would expect town to be quite defensive, even if in your case it would just be "well, these are RVS votes" so complete silence, I feel, is a bit more of a scum-leaning thing to do.
I said I was leaning, not entirely sure, town. And I thought he was town because I couldn't see flaws in his reasoning(though I'm still not sure why he used his Dirty Bomb ability) and he was scum hunting.Yeah, so if you weren't sure, why did you treat him as if you knew he was town (i.e. not voting/pressuring)? Do you have confidence in your ability to tell when Hector is scum?
You disappearing was interesting, though not unexpected. I would expect town to be quite defensive, even if in your case it would just be "well, these are RVS votes" so complete silence, I feel, is a bit more of a scum-leaning thing to do.My reaction to prefuzek's vote was a "this is an RVS vote". Then I disappeared because I moved back to college and had to deal with that. If I had posted, it would have probably been "this is weird, but I'm going to ignore it."
I didn't vote him because I was leaning town on him. If I thought he was scummier, I probably would have voted him. No, I don't really have much confidence in my ability to tell when Hector's scum. He's a very good player. I haven't seen anything pointing to him being scum(other than the dirty bomb usage) so far, so either he's town or he's really good scum.QuoteI said I was leaning, not entirely sure, town. And I thought he was town because I couldn't see flaws in his reasoning(though I'm still not sure why he used his Dirty Bomb ability) and he was scum hunting.Yeah, so if you weren't sure, why did you treat him as if you knew he was town (i.e. not voting/pressuring)? Do you have confidence in your ability to tell when Hector is scum?
How does it help scum as much or more than it hurts town?Planning disruption. There's more town planning going on than scum planning... and of course it doesn't do anything about the mafiakill, which is constant to being the King of the Mafia, I think.
I'm also frankly stunned why this is a thing we need to discuss. This is essentially a meta-game. I need to win as scum to win the game; why do I as a player - ignoring alignment - want my opponents to be comfortable? I'm confident in my day game, and consequently I'm happy to mess up everybody's night game, since I assume y'all chose something you think would be useful to your efforts to win the meta-game, and I'm less confident in my ability to divine whatever roles you chose.That makes sense. Why didn't you do it earlier, then?
FOU: since the dirty bomb is less important to you than finding mafia, when are you planning to scum hunt someone who isn't hector?Once the mess with hector is done(looks like it's calming down), or I can defeat my tunnel vision.
FoU: who would you focus on other than me?Persus13 and Deus Asmoth, given I'm town and prefuzek is doing good scum hunting and I'm leaning town on him. Persus and Deus need to post more, so pressuring them would be a good idea if I wasn't thinking you're the King Mafia.
To be fair, my role should have changed too. The role description does say everyone Teneb :PAll other players. If I didn't include that in the pm, my bad.
This is true: Dirty Bomb changes rolesYes. It's also most effective to use it when you're mafia. It doesn't make sense to use it as town because you can't win in the round you use it in, and the benefits from using it go away as people die and rejoin.
This is true: the most amount of roles to be changed in the game are on D1
Therefore: Dirty Bomb is most effective on D1.
I'm vanilla, Dirty Bomb is a single-shot day action.I did miss that. Thanks. In any case, you're actually more likely to want to use Dirty Bomb as mafia as a result of this, you don't have to worry about claiming night actions and can kill as you like.
So... have you paid any attention to anything that was said by someone not named hector?Yes. If less.
You have time left, why not hedge your bets and pressure Persus and DA anyway? You lose nothing, and get a head start on D2Why not vote somebody other than you, you say?ifwhen you find out you're wrong.
I hope you're both more active this day.I hope I can be too. I need to read back on yesterday, but I also need to do some homework and sleep, so I'll see you on the other side.
2. It's always half, rounded up if it's not a whole number.I hope you're both more active this day.I hope I can be too. I need to read back on yesterday, but I also need to do some homework and sleep, so I'll see you on the other side.
Teneb: How many votes are needed to hammer today?
2. It's always half, rounded up if it's not a whole number.Thanks! I thought that was it, but I wanted to make sure.
Also, what happens if DA doesn't deign to show himself?DA is being prodded.
We're at LYLO, and I was hoping I'd see someone posting in here over the weekend, but that didn't happen. So Extend.
I've been reading through hector's posts, and if he's King Mafia, he's done an excellent job of hiding it. Moves like putting me at L1 yesterday were pretty attention grabbing on his part, and not the sort of moves I'd expect him to be making if he was concerned about getting lynched to lose the game. On the other hand, Deus Asmoth has posted very little this entire game (to be fair, so have I, but that's not my problem), and so when it comes to it, I'd rather lynch him today than hector.
The question at this point, then, is what are you going to do about it Persus? You had plenty of oppor-chancity to chat with me over the weekend (presumably) so why didn't you take it? You started the day with the theatrical "we need to be careful with our votes!" nonsense... in a three-person-one-scum scenario. Kind of a "no shit Sherlock" thing.I don't like double posting and I'm busy. I assumed I'd get a notification sometime this weekend that someone posted in the thread. Didn't happen. All I have to read on the game is the last day which is 2-3 pages of two dead people and one living guy arguing. And he's the guy I'm leaning town on. I don't have much motivation to play the game when I've got nothing to go on. I got excited over the weekend because I thought I found a way to win with my role, but it didn't work out. So why couldn't you have posted a post like this this weekend?
There is the possibility that I'm scum. I mean, in Reverse Mafia (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=161581.msg7340805#msg7340805) I pulled the exact same hammer-gambit on D1, and I was scum in that game. What makes this game so different?I wasn't in Reverse Mafia, so I don't care. So, you've pulled this gambit as scum. Now, why would you be point this out if you were the King Mafia? You know I wasn't in the game, but you decided to bring it up anyway. I already stated I think you're town. Sure, you could be pulling some complicated gambit, but what's the point of that if you're scum?
The question at this point, then, is what are you going to do about it Persus? You had plenty of oppor-chancity to chat with me over the weekend (presumably) so why didn't you take it? You started the day with the theatrical "we need to be careful with our votes!" nonsense... in a three-person-one-scum scenario. Kind of a "no shit Sherlock" thing.I don't like double posting and I'm busy. I assumed I'd get a notification sometime this weekend that someone posted in the thread. Didn't happen. All I have to read on the game is the last day which is 2-3 pages of two dead people and one living guy arguing. And he's the guy I'm leaning town on. I don't have much motivation to play the game when I've got nothing to go on. I got excited over the weekend because I thought I found a way to win with my role, but it didn't work out. So why couldn't you have posted a post like this this weekend?
There is the possibility that I'm scum. I mean, in Reverse Mafia (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=161581.msg7340805#msg7340805) I pulled the exact same hammer-gambit on D1, and I was scum in that game. What makes this game so different?I wasn't in Reverse Mafia, so I don't care. So, you've pulled this gambit as scum. Now, why would you be point this out if you were the King Mafia? You know I wasn't in the game, but you decided to bring it up anyway. I already stated I think you're town. Sure, you could be pulling some complicated gambit, but what's the point of that if you're scum?
Teneb: will DA be mod-killed if he doesn't show up? Can I demand another extension since B12 was knackered on Monday, and I was totally trying all day to get on and scumhunt Persus, no joke for realsies true story?The rules say a queued player will "sub" in. I assume "sub" to be substitute. I may not have updated the queue in the OP, but there is one. I'm actually going to contact the first on the list to see if they can.
I'd like to hear DA's reasoning for whether or not he'll use the Dirty Bomb first, as that will give us more information on him, which we kind of need, considering he has two posts to his name.
DA: What do you think about hector's suggestion to use your dirty bomb ability?
I did have time to check the thread and answer questions though. Town!Persus knows they need to do something to sway my vote, since there's next to nothing to go on.Actually I don't. If it looks like I'm going to get lynched, I'm going to suicide bomb my pick for King Mafia. Not going to use it until then because I'd like to try and get more content.
I don't see the point, to be honest. The only possible way it'd be useful at the moment would be on the off chance that the other town player gets a night kill or jail ability, which isn't exactly likely from what I can see. Now, it would show that I have the role I claimed, but as hector mentioned, that doesn't mean much. I honestly keep thinking that the only reason using it now rather than later would make a difference would be if he were king mafia planning to avoid his role being randomised on the off chance he does die today, but I suspect that's just lack of sleep paranoia.This is the right answer.
persus, Considering this could be the last round of the game, do you want to mention how you thought you were going to win with your role and why you seemed ok with it being removed during the weekend you thought you could win by using it? Since town can't win in any case, why that choice of wording?I'm a suicide bomber. I kill the King Mafia, he loses and town wins the round. Unfortunately, to guarantee a win at this point, I need to not die during the night and no lynch today. That's basically impossible though.
hector, Is the only reason for trying the dirty bomb to roll the dice and hope for something good, or do you see another benefit to it?Let's see an answer to this.
hector, Is the only reason for trying the dirty bomb to roll the dice and hope for something good, or do you see another benefit to it?Let's see an answer to this.
The dirty bomb apocalypse was... something. It also taught me that in the role list there is a role called Elvis Impersonator... but no actual Elvis role.Weird. Also, I prefer everyone getting a revive to everyone getting a daykill.
This was interesting to watch.Meh, I think it's mostly luck.
This was interesting to watch.Meh, I think it's mostly luck.