Bay 12 Games Forum

Dwarf Fortress => DF Modding => Topic started by: Vandala on February 27, 2012, 11:22:18 am

Title: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: Vandala on February 27, 2012, 11:22:18 am
(( Here's something >>> http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6008 ))

Dwarf Fortress modding made easy(er). We are still in the very early stages of development so don't expect anything soon.

But for those who want to check out what we are doing you can follow our progress at sourceforge. (I don't think you need an account for this.)
You should be able to see some pictures there, nothing you can't see here but it's better resolution.
More importantly is that you'll be able to look at the code itself and see how things are progressing.

And for those who wish to help us develop this tool, all you need is a sourceforge account, sent me your name and I'll add you as a member to the project.
You can sent me a personal message, drop your name in a reply here or maybe even over at the forum over at sourceforge. Your choice.

-========================================================================================================================-
How I see this going down.
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-========================================================================================================================-
Current jobs I could use help with:
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-========================================================================================================================-
I'll be using python code to build this program along with the help of a GUI designer called wxglade.
This means both Windows and Linux users can run it!

Python found here: http://python.org/ (http://python.org/)
wxglade found here: http://wxglade.sourceforge.net/ (http://wxglade.sourceforge.net/)
My DFFD page found here: http://dffd.wimbli.com/who.php?id=2810 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/who.php?id=2810) (I hope this works.) *STUFF HAS BIN ADDED* (only crappy wxglade stuff x 3)
NightS DFFD page found here: http://dffd.wimbli.com/who.php?id=1536

Sourceforge - Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit - Found here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/dfmcreationkit/

Bazaar - sourceforge info found here: https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sourceforge/wiki/Bazaar
Meld wiki found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meld_%28software%29 (sadly linux only)

#NightS RAW Applications# found here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=104069.new#new
-========================================================================================================================-

-========================================================================================================================-
Latest progress: (everything in these pictures is subject to change, a lot of it still looks crappy and requires sorting and such)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit
Post by: Sorcerer on February 27, 2012, 11:30:19 am
I wish you the best of luck in this endaveour!
If i could give you more than just moral support i would, but my python skills are way below par :P
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit
Post by: Vandala on February 27, 2012, 11:36:38 am
Quote from: Sorcerer on February 27, 2012, 11:30:19 am
I wish you the best of luck in this endaveour!
If i could give you more than just moral support i would, but my python skills are way below par :P
Which probably means you're better at it them me. I know pretty much jack shit about it. (luckily I've got a friend who does work as a programmer)

But thanks for the moral support.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit
Post by: i2amroy on February 27, 2012, 12:01:02 pm
Best of luck! This is a huge task you are taking on here, though I say that even if you manage to make it so that only creatures (or something else like that) are fully moldable through a GUI I think it will be worth it.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit
Post by: Sorcerer on February 27, 2012, 12:06:14 pm
I agree with roy here, start out small, just a creature editor would be awesome...
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit
Post by: Vandala on February 27, 2012, 12:49:13 pm
Quote from: i2amroy on February 27, 2012, 12:01:02 pm
Best of luck! This is a huge task you are taking on here, though I say that even if you manage to make it so that only creatures (or something else like that) are fully moldable through a GUI I think it will be worth it.

That is the first task I'm on right now. Huge doesn't even begin to describe it.  :P Just sorting through the base creature tokens is a nightmare.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit
Post by: Di on February 27, 2012, 12:55:38 pm
There is some plugin to some notepad++ in community utilites thread but it hasn't been updated since 40d I presume.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit
Post by: Vandala on February 27, 2012, 01:10:10 pm
Quote from: Di on February 27, 2012, 12:55:38 pm
There is some plugin to some notepad++ in community utilites thread but it hasn't been updated since 40d I presume.
A nice tool but I have no use for it. Thanks though.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit
Post by: NRN_R_Sumo1 on February 27, 2012, 01:41:03 pm
I believe that there was some sort of writer for older versions back around 40d, perhaps if someone can remember the name it would help you figure out what is good and bad about how the other people made it, and help you in your design and interface.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit
Post by: Vandala on February 28, 2012, 07:46:40 pm
*HAS BIN UPDATED WITH A NEW LIST*

A little update on my progress.

I've bin sorting the various creature tokens into groups. The idea here is to get some coherent groupings going to make it easier to design an interface around all of this. And this is where your opinions come in! I could really use some suggestions what tokens people would like to see grouped together. Below is still just my first attempt, this really needs to be further refined.

Here's a link for reverence as to what all this stuff actually does in case you don't know.
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Creature_token (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Creature_token)

Please do not mind the unused group as the bottom, I haven't sorted those yet for various reasons.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: slay_mithos on February 28, 2012, 07:58:56 pm
If it is complete and not too hazardous in GUI, it might be a good tool to use.

But building it means understanding every tags and possibilities, plus knowing how to make GUI that are intuitive, complete, and still not having too much informations at once.

Quite a challenge, but good luck.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: NobodyPro on February 28, 2012, 10:04:37 pm
If anything I'd use this for beginning creatures. My creatures always end up too complicated :P
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 01, 2012, 07:05:31 am
Here's a very crappy look at me diddling around with wxglade.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You might have noticed our first problem, there's just to much stuff in dwarf fortress to put on one screen. And this is just the start, and I didn't even use all of the creature tokens yet, in fact, this is less then half of what I'm going to need to put on screen.

This is going to be fun.

PS:this image is supposed to be 1920 by 1200
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Rochndil on March 01, 2012, 09:38:13 am
Greetings!

I really hope you can get this going without losing steam, which is usually what seems to happen with projects like this. If possible (and it may not be), try to get a GROUP going so that you won't be the only one slowly going crazy in the night. :)

From a historical perspective, there are three main DF mod managers that I'm aware of. I can't remember the name of the first big one, but Sean Mirrsen wrote and maintained it for quite a while. Then there were Uristmod and DFMM (Dwarf Fortress Mod Manager). All of these programs worked pretty well, but often suffered badly when the RAW file formats changed.

One thing I've always thought someone should do, and as I'm NOT a programmer I could be totally off-base here, is to create a RAW parser that would read in the TXT data and create a database based on it. Once you had a current database of all the elements in the RAWs, making changes individually or on a larger scale would be pretty simple. Then you could reverse the process, and write out consistently-formatted RAW files. Obviously there would be a ton of work to do here in defining relationships, formatting, etc., but I think that with the right base this is a process that could make modding a LOT easier.

Then, taking the next step, you would want to build a user-friendly GUI that would display the RAW information in a useful and intelligent manner. Even if you (yourself) can just create a usable GUI, that would be a great start!

I think one solution for you is to use a tabbed interface. Users are generally familiar with them, and it allows you to display MUCH more information without trying to cram it all onto one screen.

As others already have, I wish you much luck with your project!

Rochndil, sometime modder and TCOM professional (not programming!)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: scion-of-fenrir on March 01, 2012, 09:49:46 am
Holy carp, bro! This stuff is amazing! Even if the program itself isn't out for a while, that list you made helps me a lot! I always have trouble making new creatures that aren't just re-skins of one in-game!

Keep up the good work, dude!
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Symphorien on March 01, 2012, 09:59:00 am
This looks great. I might suggest having a look at VBASE http://forums.nothingtolost.com/dicestation/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7 (http://forums.nothingtolost.com/dicestation/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7). I've been, fiddling around with it and it is really useful and simple. Might be interesting for simplifing creature creation. Just a thought
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 01, 2012, 10:32:51 am
I probably have to clarify that the earlier picture is just for looks, NOTHING ON IT WORKS YET!

The buttons and such do nothing, there is no wiring behind it, it doesn't work at all yet, it cannot read,write or proccess any data, in fact it's not a program at all, I haven't touched or written a single line of code yet.

This is just how menu's assembled in wxglade look.

You could fiddle with it yourself if you want, just download it (and python), it's really easy (fun even). I could even upload the stuff in the picture if you people want to import it to see just how crappy it still is.  ;D

PS: yes I will be using tabs eventually but even with tabs it's so much stuff that needs to be displayed. In an earlier version I had tabs going from one end of the screen to the other, and those were just for the types of .txt files I needed.  :P

Quote from: Rochndil on March 01, 2012, 09:38:13 am
I really hope you can get this going without losing steam, which is usually what seems to happen with projects like this. If possible (and it may not be), try to get a GROUP going so that you won't be the only one slowly going crazy in the night. :)

What's this group thing you speak of? How do I start one? I'm not savy at all about network tech, never use the stuff.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Rochndil on March 01, 2012, 11:23:51 am
A group of people, ie a team to develop the application together. The more folks that contribute, the less likely that something will be missed, and the more likely that the workload won't drive you around the bend.

Rochndil, thinking about farming out some of the grunt work on his mod...
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 01, 2012, 12:13:18 pm
Quote from: Rochndil on March 01, 2012, 11:23:51 am
A group of people, ie a team to develop the application together. The more folks that contribute, the less likely that something will be missed, and the more likely that the workload won't drive you around the bend.

Rochndil, thinking about farming out some of the grunt work on his mod...
Well, people can mess around with xwglade to find a menu they like or find intuitive to use. The workload doesn't bother me, it's figuring stuff out that is hard for me.
I fear though that is to many people come together things will start to get messy and I'll be unable to keep up with everyone.
The one thing people could do that would be invaluable is expanding on the wiki, the more info I can get off of the dwarf fortress wiki the easier it will be to incorporate all of DF's functions and options.
There are for example still a few creature tokens that have no info avalable in the wiki, now I will be able to add them to the program but I have no idea if they will actual work.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 01, 2012, 03:32:51 pm
Little update.

I think it's starting to look better. Tabs help. All the previous screens will be added under the tabs on the left.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Eagleon on March 01, 2012, 04:10:35 pm
I was one of the people that tried to tangle with this sort of thing - I made a color descriptor importer/exporter just before one of the major versions came out. It was horribly messy and made in VB, so it's not around hehe.

What would be exceptionally helpful for the longevity of this project (though perhaps not for your sanity) is if you considered tags and their parameters on the level of a system of components. What I mean is that there's going to be a limited group of behaviors for values, that tags with parameters will accept some of the groups but not others, and that to add a tag, instead of worrying about every possible input value again, you go back and look at what behaviors for inputs you do have (color, strings, other tags), and use those first. Then if they don't match up at all, you add a new behavior/component so that you can use it if it comes up again later.

It would also be easy to model tag groupings this way (things like [SELECT_CASTE:BLAH], where it looks until it finds another [SELECT_CASTE]) - for every caste you find in the raw, you have a container component which contains all of its own tags separate from the rest in that creature. To extend the entity model metaphor if you've looked at it before, creatures would be components, not entities, but the archetype Creature entity would exist that contains all creature components, with methods to do things like look for duplicate creatures.

There's probably other ways to do this, but in general I think anything like this is going to have to implement some kind of relatively simple to maintain parameter control for tags down the line, since things are added/removed/become more or less acceptable as valid raws as Toady develops.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 01, 2012, 05:02:55 pm
Another image

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You can see buttons now (to activate abilities on the creature.) Some, when pressed are held down. (on/off switch basically)
There are also drop down thingies that let me limit your choices as you can see with the min/max depth of underground placement.
The ADD button next to the Biome adds another biome selector (as many as you need). Not that this works yet of course.

Now onward!!  ;D
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Lysabild on March 01, 2012, 05:13:40 pm
Best of luck with this, it looks good.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 01, 2012, 07:03:28 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ok, I'll try to explain a little bit of how I see this thing working in my mind at the moment. With the help of the picture ^above^.

Already!

GAH! Forgot something again. Tooltips! I forgot to say that in the eventual final version tooltips will be added to every function and button. The tooltips will have all the info I can find on the wiki.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 01, 2012, 07:18:41 pm
Quote from: scion-of-fenrir on March 01, 2012, 09:49:46 am
Holy carp, bro! This stuff is amazing! Even if the program itself isn't out for a while, that list you made helps me a lot! I always have trouble making new creatures that aren't just re-skins of one in-game!

Keep up the good work, dude!
Sorry I forgot about you scion-of-fenrir, here are some links to make up for it, perhaps they can help you mod.

Creature tokens: for moding your creatures. http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Creature_token (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Creature_token)
Atribute information: for modding your creatures. http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Attribute (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Attribute)
Personality information: for modding your creatures. http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Personality_trait (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Personality_trait)
Skill information: for modding your creatures. http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Skill (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Skill)
Entity tokens: for modding your civilizations. http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Entity#Flavor (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Entity#Flavor)

And some old list, but you can get to new stuff with the links, just keep looking at the top for versions. http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:40d:Modding (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:40d:Modding)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Rochndil on March 02, 2012, 10:21:27 am
The GUI is looking good, I definitely think you're going in the right direction. If at all possible, make the program work as much like a standard Windows app as possible. Hopefully there will be tools available to make this pretty simple. The more you make it look and work like OTHER standard Windows apps, the less trouble (and questions!) you'll get from users.

Also, if possible (and you're willing), make the source available so that other folks can help with/build on your work. When you get to the stuff about modding MINERALS I'll definitely take a closer look...I've never been brave enough to mess with modding critters!

Rochndil, who still works on his big mod as time allows...
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Jemeni on March 02, 2012, 10:55:51 am
If you want some help, I offer my services. I know some basic scripting langs., java, and a little C++. I don't know python, but I can assure you that It will not be hard to learn.

If you don't think you would need my help then I still wish to tell you this. The parsing would probably be easiest with regular expressions. I know that they are a bitch, but they get the job done.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Interus on March 02, 2012, 12:25:32 pm
Would it be possible to combine certain tabs?  Like the wildlife and pet tabs.  Or the Megabeast, night creature, and lair tabs.  That might simplify the display, or it might just make the combined versions way to complex.

I think you'll need some way to check what other files there are for a lot of things.  Like, the program should either check that the bodypart you're trying to add actually exists or only show you which ones exist through a dropdown menu.  The first one might be slightly better, because it could allow a way to add bodyparts first, and then see which bodyparts need definitions when you start working on the appropriate raws there.  things like this would also apply to entities(checking that the creature and the items they can use also exist), and materials.

It really depends on how you choose to add those things though.  If the user types in a list of all the parts they want, it could be in the order they want, and the program could highlight the ones that don't exist yet, and add them to a display in the appropriate raw tab.  I think this way is more powerful, but it also requires at least some knowledge of the format.  And it's probably not necessary for things like equipment.  Maybe selecting a creature for a civ will allow you to pick one from a list, picking equipment is checking boxes based on what raws are loaded into the mod, and . . . ok, I can't really think of a smooth way to do body parts.  That sort of thing is vast and messy, and I don't know how you would do things like only allowing people to modify the material of body parts the creature has and things like that.

Hopefully this stuff helps, it seems like at least some of what you want is ideas for how this thing should work, and that's what I've come up with.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 02, 2012, 12:35:33 pm
There are basically two steps towards creating this program.

The first is the design of the GUI. The other is the coding that makes the GUI actually do what it's supposed to do.

How wxglade works is that it allows very easy editing and once your done designing you can push a button and out comes the python code you can directly copy/paste into your program code. Just connect the buttons and your done. Designing the GUI is the easy part. Connecting buttons, also easy. Figuring out what the buttons have to do is a little harder because we will need to have full working knowledge of dwarf fortress but that's provided by it's wiki. The harder part comes from writing to the txt files, an easy enough function in python but it's going to be the hell to figure out where to put everything and in what order. But that really depends on wither DF is going to bitch about order placement in it's creature files.

That last part is something I'd like to know and it's a job thats going to take some time, either to figure out or to design. If somebody could handle that I would be rather happy.

The job: Figure out the proper placement of all creature tokens until dwarf fortress no longer gives any errors. (have fun  ;D )

(after all that we would still be in the apha stage without any 'special' stuff like adding item permissions across all civilization of an entire mod but those will come with time. as long as we can get a creature creator working I'll be happy. AAAAAND everything will of course be completely open source or whatever the right terminology is.)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 02, 2012, 12:50:55 pm
It's like I read your mind.  ::) Just finished that.  (stuff still looks rather messy but that will eventually be cleaned up, right not it's more important that we can fit in every last damn button!!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Well looky here, only about less then one third of the skills can fit on a page. I wish I know how a simple scroll bar worked in wxglade, cause without that I can't add any more.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Things look better on the attribute side though, look how clean that looks.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yes, yes I can see the big black space in the corner there. That's on purpose, it's where a changing picture comes that will have helpful information on the tributes.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 02, 2012, 01:29:41 pm
Quote from: Interus on March 02, 2012, 12:25:32 pm
I think you'll need some way to check what other files there are for a lot of things.  Like, the program should either check that the bodypart you're trying to add actually exists or only show you which ones exist through a dropdown menu.  The first one might be slightly better, because it could allow a way to add bodyparts first, and then see which bodyparts need definitions when you start working on the appropriate raws there.  things like this would also apply to entities(checking that the creature and the items they can use also exist), and materials.

It really depends on how you choose to add those things though.  If the user types in a list of all the parts they want, it could be in the order they want, and the program could highlight the ones that don't exist yet, and add them to a display in the appropriate raw tab.  I think this way is more powerful, but it also requires at least some knowledge of the format.  And it's probably not necessary for things like equipment.  Maybe selecting a creature for a civ will allow you to pick one from a list, picking equipment is checking boxes based on what raws are loaded into the mod, and . . . ok, I can't really think of a smooth way to do body parts.  That sort of thing is vast and messy, and I don't know how you would do things like only allowing people to modify the material of body parts the creature has and things like that.

We will make everything as easy on the modder as possible. The goal is to allow even someone without any knowledge of dwarf fortress to mod a creature (at least.)
Multiple selection lists with all available pre-made body parts, tissues, materials, etc will be included but people will also be able to create these parts themselves in other sections of the program aided by tool tips and other hints we can throw in once we ourselves have working knowledge of this.
It's even possible to trade such lists between users (modding the modding tool yay!)
Anyway, you'll always know what already exists due to the way the program is set up, the lists of all existing stuff you happen to be modding is right there on you left, this is true for creatures as well as everything else.

It is possible to have the program check all other creature files once you safe your new creature to see if a duplicate exists, but thats not really a priority right now.

I'll keep your idea's in mind.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Eagleon on March 02, 2012, 01:41:33 pm
Quote from: Vandala on March 02, 2012, 12:50:55 pm
Well looky here, only about less then one third of the skills can fit on a page. I wish I know how a simple scroll bar worked in wxglade, cause without that I can't add any more.
Whether scroll bars appear or not should be a property of the panel/container you put everything in. There might be a special Scrollable panel, or it might be part of most panels.

Fake edit: http://wxpython.org/docs/api/wx.ScrolledWindow-class.html (http://wxpython.org/docs/api/wx.ScrolledWindow-class.html) and focus, which saves sanity: http://wiki.wxpython.org/ScrolledWindows (http://wiki.wxpython.org/ScrolledWindows)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 02, 2012, 01:43:17 pm
Heh, just got an idea.

We could have our own clipy assistant window.

I will name him Clip the Dwarf.

Hmm, now all we need are pictures and funny banter.

There's a job: make "Clip the Dwarf" pictures and collect dwarf fortress jokes, 12-bay forum community history, in-jokes, dwarf science, and the like. Aim for 200 by 200 pixels in size.

I'm just joking of course, but if somebody is crazy enough to do it then I'll see that it's added somewhere down the line.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Alexander86 on March 02, 2012, 09:58:37 pm
This is looking amazing! I am no representative of the community but thank you for doing this.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 03, 2012, 10:04:57 am
I touched up the creature abilities tab a bit. I think I'll actually be able to fit all of the "Megabeast/Night Creature/Undead + Lair" in there as well but not today.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

EDIT: I've fused the "world" with the "population" tab.
EDIT: I've fused the "name/look/age" and the "sound/death" tabs.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 03, 2012, 01:55:44 pm
Ok, I'm going to need help.

I need an clear explanation of what the following creature tokens do and how to use them. Otherwise I won't be able to add this stuff.

SELECT_ADDITIONAL_CASTE
SELECT_CASTE
SELECT_MATERIAL
SET_BP_GROUP
SET_TL_GROUP
USE_MATERIAL
USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE
USE_TISSUE
USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE
CHANGE_BODY_SIZE_PERC
COPY_TAGS_FROM
CREATURE_CLASS
CV_ADD_TAG
CV_REMOVE_TAG
FEATURE_ATTACK_GROUP
GENERAL_MATERIAL_FORCE_MULTIPLIER
GO_TO_END
GO_TO_START
GO_TO_TAG
MATERIAL
MATERIAL_FORCE_MULTIPLIER
PLUS_BP_GROUP
PLUS_MATERIAL
REMAINS_UNDETERMINED
REMOVE_MATERIAL
REMOVE_TISSUE
SET_BP_GROUP
SET_TL_GROUP
TISSUE
TL_COLOR_MODIFIER
TLCM_GENETIC_MODEL
TLCM_IMPORTANCE
TLCM_NOUN
TLCM_TIMING
TSU_NOUN
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 03, 2012, 02:13:32 pm
The latest addition, looks awful, will be reshuffled some other time but I think I'll need the info about the creature tokens in my previous post to help me with that first.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 04, 2012, 02:00:37 pm
A little bump.

Help still needed, check two posts that ^^^ way.  ;D Pretty please?
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 04, 2012, 04:55:45 pm
Can't continue with creature stuff right now so I decided to do this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Someday you'll be able to easily control all your dwarf fortress setting with the program as well.

EDIT: I'll make sure the program will hold all the standard color schemes by default (those that I can grab off of the wiki.)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: rawrcakes on March 04, 2012, 09:12:50 pm
I have to say, for a dabbling modder like myself, a tool like this would be god sent for at least getting some basic stuff into my world. Cheering for your success!
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: neil_v on March 04, 2012, 10:02:11 pm
Amazing! I feel for you. This is crazy, thats why I am taking a rudimentary approach. I wish I could help, but I am way out of my league here.
My only recommendation is: Don't jam it all in, have the ability to collapse, scroll, and jump through the information being displayed. The user does not need to see everything at once, just what they want to see. Visibility and functionality. DF users are used to hotkeys.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 04, 2012, 10:26:23 pm
Quote from: neil_v on March 04, 2012, 10:02:11 pm
Amazing! I feel for you. This is crazy, thats why I am taking a rudimentary approach. I wish I could help, but I am way out of my league here.
My only recommendation is: Don't jam it all in, have the ability to collapse, scroll, and jump through the information being displayed. The user does not need to see everything at once, just what they want to see. Visibility and functionality. DF users are used to hotkeys.
Hmm, yes dwarf fortress does have a lot of hot keys doesn't it? I could add another page in my program that allows for the changing of those as well if you think that's a good idea? It would come much later on my to do list though, there's a LOT of 'em.

Some people want to see less tabs while others want to see less options thrown into their face all at once. I can understand both sides, we'll have to refine the look of the program once people actually get their hands on it.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: Trapezohedron on March 04, 2012, 10:52:43 pm
Quote from: Vandala on March 03, 2012, 01:55:44 pm
Ok, I'm going to need help.

I need an clear explanation of what the following creature tokens do and how to use them. Otherwise I won't be able to add this stuff.

SELECT_ADDITIONAL_CASTE
SELECT_CASTE
SELECT_MATERIAL
SET_BP_GROUP
SET_TL_GROUP
USE_MATERIAL
USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE
USE_TISSUE
USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE
CHANGE_BODY_SIZE_PERC
COPY_TAGS_FROM
CREATURE_CLASS
CV_ADD_TAG
CV_REMOVE_TAG
FEATURE_ATTACK_GROUP
GENERAL_MATERIAL_FORCE_MULTIPLIER
GO_TO_END
GO_TO_START
GO_TO_TAG
MATERIAL
MATERIAL_FORCE_MULTIPLIER
PLUS_BP_GROUP
PLUS_MATERIAL
REMAINS_UNDETERMINED
REMOVE_MATERIAL
REMOVE_TISSUE
SET_BP_GROUP
SET_TL_GROUP
TISSUE
TL_COLOR_MODIFIER
TLCM_GENETIC_MODEL
TLCM_IMPORTANCE
TLCM_NOUN
TLCM_TIMING
TSU_NOUN

Would take too long to write stuff, so here's the wiki's creature token page (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Creature_Tokens#S). It also includes pointers on how to use the tokens. URL starts at letter S, so you should start with the SELECT_CASTE tokens.

I'll try my best to explain stuff if you ask about it.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 04, 2012, 11:15:54 pm
Thanks New Guy but I already had that page of the wiki mined out and now I'm stuck.
For me to be able to continue I need a better explanation of how those tokens really work.
I hate to be a bother but I can't add those tokens to my program if I don't know what they do. These are the rare exception where I must know how they work otherwise it won't work.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: MiamiBryce on March 04, 2012, 11:28:47 pm
Vandala,

Some advice / constructive criticism from someone who earns his keep as a programmer / analyst...

When going from start to finish, you're going to have to load all the mod files into some sort of memory structures and then bind them to your UI.  I think you should, before coding any UI, figure out what method you will use to store the mod data in memory and what sort of UI would best bind to that method.  Something I know you'll use, but I saw not a one of in your screenshots, are grid views (I don't know what they're called in your toolkit). 

Your form is entirely too large, with too many things crammed on it.  I'm assuming the main object on your form is some sort of tab control widget.  What you're most likely going to want to do is, within each of those tabs, add another tab control widget with the tabs at the top.  So, for your DF: Game Setting tab you could have within it a tab for d_init, a tab for init.txt, and a tab for color.txt.  Actually I'd suggest splitting the d_init and init.txt into more than one tab each, because they'd still be pretty big.

Something else I just noticed, you don't have any check-boxes.  Typically Y/N items like temperature, weather, etc would be check-boxes not buttons.  If you're not going to use check-boxes I'm wondering how you'll indicate whether those items are enabled or disabled.

Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Trapezohedron on March 04, 2012, 11:48:16 pm
SELECT_CASTE is used like this:

Code: [Select]
[CASTE:FEMALE]
[FEMALE]
[CASTE:MALE]
[MALE]
[CASTE:FEMALE_BERSERKER]
[FEMALE]
[CASTE:MALE_BERSERKER]
[MALE]
[SELECT_CASTE:FEMALE_BERSERKER] <-- Selects the FEMALE_BERSERKER caste ([CASTE:FEMALE_BERSERKER])
[SELECT_ADDITIONAL_CASTE:MALE_BERSERKER] <-- Also selects the MALE_BERSERKER caste ([CASTE:MALE_BERSERKER]) This tag is used to add tags on both the FEMALE_BERSERKER and MALE_BERSERKER castes here.
[PRONE_TO_RAGE:100] <-- Makes the selected castes go berserk when seeing a hostile.

[SELECT_CASTE:FEMALE] <-- Using this tag deselects the above castes, because it isn't SELECT_ADDITIONAL_CASTE. Useful for defining tags the above two castes shouldn't have.
[MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE] <-- makes twin births rare

[SELECT_CASTE:ALL] Selects all the castes in a creature's raws. Like the above, it deselects the above caste, but that's a moot point since you're selecting all the castes in a creature.
[NATURAL_SKILL:AXE:15] <-- naturally makes them have legendary with the axe skill.
In short, only the berserkers get the PRONE_TO_RAGE tag, the FEMALE caste gets the MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE tag, and everyone gets legendary with the axe skill.

Hope I explained it well enough. I'm not good with this kind of thing.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 04, 2012, 11:52:00 pm
Quote from: MiamiBryce on March 04, 2012, 11:28:47 pm
Vandala,

Some advice / constructive criticism from someone who earns his keep as a programmer / analyst...

When going from start to finish, you're going to have to load all the mod files into some sort of memory structures and then bind them to your UI.  I think you should, before coding any UI, figure out what method you will use to store the mod data in memory and what sort of UI would best bind to that method.  Something I know you'll use, but I saw not a one of in your screenshots, are grid views (I don't know what they're called in your toolkit). 

Your form is entirely too large, with too many things crammed on it.  I'm assuming the main object on your form is some sort of tab control widget.  What you're most likely going to want to do is, within each of those tabs, add another tab control widget with the tabs at the top.  So, for your DF: Game Setting tab you could have within it a tab for d_init, a tab for init.txt, and a tab for color.txt.  Actually I'd suggest splitting the d_init and init.txt into more than one tab each, because they'd still be pretty big.

Something else I just noticed, you don't have any check-boxes.  Typically Y/N items like temperature, weather, etc would be check-boxes not buttons.  If you're not going to use check-boxes I'm wondering how you'll indicate whether those items are enabled or disabled.
Stuff will be stored in .txt files if that's what your asking, otherwise I don't understand the question.
Also don't know what a grid view is. (don't recall spotting such a thing just yet.)
You probably don't have to worry to much, as I said I'v got a friend who knows this stuff, he works as a programmer himself, he'll know what's what when I get to that stage.
The buttons themselves are on/off switches, this takes less programming work.
I'll certainly keep the tabs in tabs idea in the back of my mind while I work.

Thank you, advice / constructive criticism is always appreciated.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 04, 2012, 11:57:25 pm
Quote from: New Guy on March 04, 2012, 11:48:16 pm
SELECT_CASTE is used like this:

Code: [Select]
[CASTE:FEMALE]
[FEMALE]
[CASTE:MALE]
[MALE]
[CASTE:FEMALE_BERSERKER]
[FEMALE]
[CASTE:MALE_BERSERKER]
[MALE]
[SELECT_CASTE:FEMALE_BERSERKER] <-- Selects the FEMALE_BERSERKER caste ([CASTE:FEMALE_BERSERKER])
[SELECT_ADDITIONAL_CASTE:MALE_BERSERKER] <-- Also selects the MALE_BERSERKER caste ([CASTE:MALE_BERSERKER]) This tag is used to add tags on both the FEMALE_BERSERKER and MALE_BERSERKER castes here.
[PRONE_TO_RAGE:100] <-- Makes the selected castes go berserk when seeing a hostile.

[SELECT_CASTE:FEMALE] <-- Using this tag deselects the above castes, because it isn't SELECT_ADDITIONAL_CASTE. Useful for defining tags the above two castes shouldn't have.
[MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE] <-- makes twin births rare

[SELECT_CASTE:ALL] Selects all the castes in a creature's raws. Like the above, it deselects the above caste, but that's a moot point since you're selecting all the castes in a creature.
[NATURAL_SKILL:AXE:15] <-- naturally makes them have legendary with the axe skill.
In short, only the berserkers get the PRONE_TO_RAGE tag, the FEMALE caste gets the MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE tag, and everyone gets legendary with the axe skill.

Hope I explained it well enough. I'm not good with this kind of thing.
Ok, but what is the point of this token? Why does it exist? Is there something you can only do with this that you can't do any other way?
The thing is I see no reason for it's existence unless it is perhaps used in conjunction with a token that can do something similar but instead copies an already existing creature.
If that is possible then I could see it's point because it would allow editing of a caste you can't physically get at from within such a creature file.
But is this the case?
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Interus on March 05, 2012, 12:03:45 am
You probably won't have to worry about the SELECT_CASTE and SELECT_ADDITIONAL_CASTE tags, because you'll export each caste with all it's tags when you're done.  They're more useful in situations where several castes are extremely similar, so that they can be modded at the same time instead of adding several lines of code to each one.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Trapezohedron on March 05, 2012, 12:04:46 am
It's typically used for sorting tags, and add some appearance modifiers in a caste (beards on males, for example). Basically used to edit a creature after making the caste.

It's also used to return to editing the creature at creature level (via [SELECT_CASTE:ALL]), and not at caste level. For example, if you wanted to add a [SWIMS_INNATE] tag after you defined the castes, you need to put [SELECT_CASTE:ALL] to make the changes global and not caste exclusive.

FAKEDIT: And what Interus said.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 05, 2012, 12:15:38 am
Quote from: New Guy on March 05, 2012, 12:04:46 am
It's typically used for sorting tags, and add some appearance modifiers in a caste (beards on males, for example). Basically used to edit a creature after making the caste.

It's also used to return to editing the creature at creature level (via [SELECT_CASTE:ALL]), and not at caste level. For example, if you wanted to add a [SWIMS_INNATE] tag after you defined the castes, you need to put [SELECT_CASTE:ALL] to make the changes global and not caste exclusive.

FAKEDIT: And what Interus said.
Another thing you might know. Does it matter in what order I put tokens? Natural it matter wither you put them into a cast or not but does the order in which they appear matter at all? If so how?
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Trapezohedron on March 05, 2012, 03:03:07 am
It does matter, depending on the tag/token used.

Everything specified below SELECT_CASTE is exclusive to the selected caste(s), and SELECT_ADDITIONAL_CASTE must be below SELECT_CASTE, but above the other tags that you're going to put in the selected castes.

And for the record, SELECT_CASTE:ALL will return you to global creature modding.

Also, another example would be bodyparts. You have to define them first before applying the tissues to them, or the tissue won't be applied properly.

Basically, the order you see them put in the default raws should be the format you're aiming for.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 05, 2012, 08:05:16 pm
Sorry folks no pictures today, but don't worry I am still working on the program.

The reason why I don't have anything to show is because (for those who speak wxglade) I've bin editing the "Name" and the "Events" of EVERYTHING, which is a pain in the ass to do but it saves a lot of time once I start the actual coding which is going to happen rather soon I suspect. Don't get your hopes up to high though, I don't know how fast or slow of a coder I am plus the code that I'll be making will only allow for the limited functionality of the option you have seen thus far (minus the skills tab, that one is currently out of the picture, don't worry it's backed-up) so it's not going to generate any full creature files right away.

That could be changed if I where to understand the creature tokens in my earlier post, so hint, hint?
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 06, 2012, 01:08:57 am
Most of the editing work is now done, I'll probably be able to finish it tomorrow.

With any luck, my friend will visit me this week and I'll be able to start coding for real.

Fuck I'm tired...  :P Good night folks, and please do help me with those damn creature tokens.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 06, 2012, 05:20:57 pm
Finally done with those damn things.

Can start coding now, at least, once I can start coding.  :P
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: neil_v on March 06, 2012, 05:47:24 pm
Wow! nice job. Cant wait to see how things evolve.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Xelanthol on March 06, 2012, 08:52:09 pm
Here to offer no support other then that of-"Holy shit that looks awesome". Good luck man I will be following this thread.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Trapezohedron on March 06, 2012, 09:17:30 pm
I'd really like to help, but my raw-fu is rusty. It's been so long since the time I was fiddling around with [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE] and [USE_TISSUE_TEMPLATE], so I can't explain how those work and such.

As for [CV_ADD_TAG] and other tags in the same vein as those ([GO_TO_START][GO_TO_END]), you might have luck trying to ask Nidokoenig (of My Little Fortress fame) how those tags work and how to use them, since he uses a lot of them to streamline his creatures.

Or you could try asking for help from either TomiTapio or Deon, for most of the tags.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 06, 2012, 09:30:31 pm
I've bin reading up on a good number of various threads on the forum and am discovering many posts of people discovering ever more specific factoids about the way dwarf fortress works, or doesn't, which is especially importuned.

I just want to ask that if anyone knows of great resources where such discoveries are accumulated please do not hesitate to post me a link to such a treasure trove. I ask this because eventually I'll be trying to make my program check for as many impossibilities and human errors as possible to prevent such things from happening in the first place. From max/min ranges of numbers you can give (such as the max 5000 in attribute scores), to conflicting creature tokens and other stuff.

Or if you know specific stuff you can also just post an explanation of your discovery if you find out I haven't fixed it yet. But that's for when the program actually comes out.

EDIT: Will do New Guy, thanks.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Putnam on March 06, 2012, 10:11:00 pm
Ask if you're ever confused about anything, and you shall get answers.

There are, of course, the obvious pages for token info:

Creature tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Creature_Token)
   Body tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Body_Tokens)
      Bodygloss info (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Bodygloss)
   Body Detail Plan tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Body_detail_plan_token)
   Tissue tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Tissue_definition_token)
   Skill tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Skill_token)
   Creature variation tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Creature_variation_token)
Entity tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Entity_token)
   Position tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Position_token)
   Unit Type tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Unit_type_token)
   Ethic tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Ethics)
   Language tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Language_token)
Biome tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Biome_token) (Can be considered a subset of both entity and creature tokens)
Material definition tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Material_definition_token)
   Inorganic material definition tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Inorganic_material_definition_token) (I.E can't be attached to living things)
Item definition tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Item_definition_token)
   Ammo tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Ammo_token)
   Armor tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Armor_token)
   Tool tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Tool_token)
   Trap component tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Trap_component_token)
   Weapon tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Weapon_token)
Reactions (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Reaction)
   Building tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Building_token)
   Item tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Item_token)
   Labor tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Labor_token)
   Material tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Material_token)
Interaction tokens (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Interaction_token)
   Syndrome guide (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Syndrome)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 07, 2012, 01:00:16 am
Thanks Putnam, I'll take you on on that offer some other time.

===

Right now I've got a different problem. Not something people can help me with I fear.

I seem to have fucked up my own program, it won't preview-run anymore which means I've made an error somewhere.

Don't worry I've got tons of backups that do work and at most I'll lose 2 days worth of work.

Just letting people know it might take longer then expected since I'll probably have to fix this before I can start to code.

Oh the joys of computers.  ;D

EDIT: Here's the wxglade file for anyone who wants to see for them self.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=5804
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Trapezohedron on March 07, 2012, 01:03:02 am
I'm pretty sure it's a single annoying typo lodged somewhere in the code, hidden in the dark, damp recesses where the eyes of men cannot see.

D:
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 07, 2012, 01:12:36 am
Quote from: New Guy on March 07, 2012, 01:03:02 am
I'm pretty sure it's a single annoying typo lodged somewhere in the code, hidden in the dark, damp recesses where the eyes of men cannot see.

D:
I suspected that but after checking EVERY SINGLE ONE, I think it's something else, even worse.

I suspect I'm not allowed to name multiple events with the same name. Which I've bin doing, for all of them. But that's the thing, the program never spoke up about it, and before when I did it with another naming thing I did get warnings about just that.

This is not going to be fun.

EDIT: Well, just discovered that, that is indeed a problem. But not the one I'm having, it's something else... And now I have no clue what it could be anymore.
EDIT: Also just found out that what you mentioned isn't possible... This is getting weird.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 07, 2012, 02:23:36 pm
Got some news, don't know if it's good or bad.

Bin tinkering some more and the error message I'm getting is changing.

So either I'm going into the right direction or the wrong one. I have no idea which one. But at least it's something.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: gimli on March 07, 2012, 04:01:33 pm
Wow, this looks like an awesome project. I mean even noobs like me will be able to create mods soon? :D
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 07, 2012, 07:16:43 pm
Probably not soon.

Still can't solve the problem even after re-editing all previous edits. Not sure what is going on here but I'll find it eventually.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: gimli on March 08, 2012, 08:28:43 am
Quote from: Vandala on March 07, 2012, 07:16:43 pm
Probably not soon.

Still can't solve the problem even after re-editing all previous edits. Not sure what is going on here but I'll find it eventually.

Perhaps some experienced coders like Baughn could help in it...:)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -opinions needed-
Post by: toryoom on March 08, 2012, 10:37:29 am
Quote from: slay_mithos on February 28, 2012, 07:58:56 pm
If it is complete and not too hazardous in GUI, it might be a good tool to use.

But building it means understanding every tags and possibilities, plus knowing how to make GUI that are intuitive, complete, and still not having too much informations at once.

Quite a challenge, but good luck.

...In other words, nothing like the outlook Toady himself implements now (and likely forever).
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 09, 2012, 02:23:44 pm
Problem found, problem solved.

Coding will begin today. Actually right now, bye.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 09, 2012, 05:50:28 pm
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=5831
(dwarf fortress parser, a very limited parser written in python, it's bad, don't use it, just posting it here laughs or something)

A little thing my friend made tonight. (I just sat there and copied his work)

We are still just figuring stuff out, testing the water as you say, but it's fun to do.

I am beginning to understand why nobody has done something like this just yet. Man it's going to be a lot of work.

Luckily we where at least able to understand what I did wrong with the GUI, turns out you aren't allowed to start event handlers with numbers. (stupid program, grrr! could have just told me so from the start but noooo, it wants to see me struggle, bastard!)

Anyway, next I'll be cleaning up a lot of things I did wrong in wxglade before I go further into coding, that will be helping me a lot and save me tons of time down the road.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 09, 2012, 11:58:29 pm
I've got another question.

Does anyone know the maximum/minimum numbers you can put into to following creature tokens? If there is no such limit then please consider what you want the limits to be, because currently I have to put something there.

MENT_ATT_CAP_PERC
Cap %

MENT_ATT_RATES
cost to improve
unused counter rate
rust counter rate
demotion counter rate

PHYS_ATT_CAP_PERC
Cap %

PHYS_ATT_RATES
cost to improve
unused counter rate
rust counter rate
demotion counter rate
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Trapezohedron on March 10, 2012, 12:31:22 am
I think PHYS/MENT_ATT_RATES doesn't have a cap. Setting the learning rates to 1000 makes them learn 10x (not really sure) as fast. Setting it to 0 means you'll never learn skills. Of course, I'm talking about the first part of the tag, so yeah.

Not really sure what to recommend as a limit... 5000 might be a bit too low for cheaters. :P
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 10, 2012, 02:41:32 am
Perhaps somebody could calculate how much is needed to get a maximum experience score with but a single action? That would definably be enough right?.

Actual it would be nice if we had the exact numbers, does anyone have those? What does dwarf therapist say on this? I do believe that program kept track of ability scores and such.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Putnam on March 10, 2012, 02:52:54 am
The obvious max limit is 2^32-1, since I believe that that is the hard limit.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 10, 2012, 03:03:23 pm
Quote from: Putnam on March 10, 2012, 02:52:54 am
The obvious max limit is 2^32-1, since I believe that that is the hard limit.
Cool, but how do I do this ^ symbol? I never use it.

Is this correct?
4 294 967 295

Is this true only for all numbers in dwarf fortress? (except for stuff like attributes who have a max of 5000 right?)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Putnam on March 10, 2012, 03:08:24 pm
So far as I can tell, that's the consensus on the hard limit of things. Also AFAIK, I don't think anyone has actually tried finding the exact limit. Instead, everyone assumes it's the 4294967295 number you posted.

Attributes have a max of 5000, as do many other things, and IIRC skills have a limit of, like, 20-30. CE_PHYS_ATT_CHANGE will overflow if given too much--I try to keep it under 7500.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 10, 2012, 03:22:14 pm
That's a good thing to know, thank you.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 12, 2012, 02:19:32 am
Almost done with renaming just about everything in wxglade. That means it's almost going to work again.

(but I'll be taking some time off to see an awesome movie, see my sig for link)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 12, 2012, 04:06:08 am
Finally done, it works again.

I'll upload a wxglade save in a moment at DFFD for those that care to take a look.

It's probably starting to look a little smaller all in all, which I'm happy with. Other then some reshuffling a few buttons nothing has really changed.

EDIT: Upload done. (save18)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 12, 2012, 04:20:24 pm
Got an idea just now. Hope people like it.

I'm decided to at a small tutorial, a Tips&Tricks page, a Builds&Traps page and to advertise other programs to the program.

I thought if I can make modding easier why not make everything easier. So a short and simple "how to play" to teach the basics of dwarf fortress, and a page when stuff like the "infinite stone dump" tricks are collected, and a page that has those nifty dwarfish trap designs, and finally a page where I can add links and explanations to other fine programs such as *Masterwork* and Dwarf Therapist to help starting dwarf fortress players.

I know that all of this can be found in both the forum and the wiki pages but I think it will be a great boon to people who know absolutely nothing and just start out.

Don't worry, all this stuff is secondary to the main purpose (modding) and will be added after everything else works. I'm just leaving some space open to accommodate these features.
Which looks like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(also, the game settings tap has bin moved up)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Meph on March 12, 2012, 04:29:59 pm
Quote
a page when stuff like the "infinite stone dump" tricks are collected, and a page that has those nifty dwarfish trap designs

Check the manual of my mod, or the optional .pdf in the Extras. I already made a list of 25 tips and tricks for DF, collected from the forum. Feel free to use them. A how-to for nice trap setups is missing though, I do like the idea however :)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 12, 2012, 07:18:59 pm
JUST POSTING TO REMIND MYSELF!! Ignore this please.
Note to self: Build a creature sorter.

Once this program is done it should be possible to add some tweaks to the parser to automatically sort creature by their size/damage/abilities to see how deadly they are.

This will allow auto-sorting of huge numbers of any kind of creature, modded or not, by your own set of standards to see how over/under powered they are, allowing you to see if they are mod compatible power-wise. Maybe add the option to auto-allocate certain tags like [MEGABEAST].

Probably better to make this a side program, though might be possible to add it to the main program if I can make it not bothersome towards the main modding features.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 12, 2012, 11:21:17 pm
Just realized something. It will take even longer before anything is brought out to the public, even when I have a 'working' version.

The thing is that I'm working with a program that generates a lot of codework for me (wxglade), but I still need to ad extra layers of code to this in order to get it to do what we want it to do.
The thing is that every time I'd like to shuffle stuff around in the GUI I need to generate new code for it (unless I start doing that manually but that's even more work) which means I'd have to copy paste the code I already made, which leaves open so many chances of human error and it's a lot of work as well.

The solution is to write some script that does the fusing of wxglade code with my own code automatically. Which isn't a problem, nor a big deal, just extra work before I can bring anything out.

Which is still going to take a long time.  ;D
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: gimli on March 13, 2012, 03:55:28 pm
I think that this should be a community project or something, to speed up the development. I am prety sure that some ppl could help you.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: neil_v on March 13, 2012, 06:16:57 pm
Quote from: gimli on March 13, 2012, 03:55:28 pm
I think that this should be a community project or something, to speed up the development. I am prety sure that some ppl could help you.
I wish I could help, but my python skills end at modding Mount and Blade Warband. I hope someone steps up.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 13, 2012, 09:01:23 pm
Something useful, soon anyone who wants to help can help. (as soon as I figure out all the option over at sourceforge)
But at least the project itself has a page now and soon I'll be uploading all the stuff I have there.

Here are some links that might be useful.

Sourceforge - Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Bazaar - sourceforge
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Meld (allows for the melding of code, might come in useful for melding new generated code by wxglade and the code we've already made) (sadly only works for linux, check your repository)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 14, 2012, 03:59:03 am
Just a reminder for anyone who wants to lend a hand, just give me your sourceforge account name and I'll be able to add you to the project.
(creating an account is free and easy)

Knowledge of python or a willingness to learn it are kind of required since that's how we code.

I'll do my best to gather as many links to helpful information over at the sourceforge forum.

Hope this link works:
https://sourceforge.net/p/dfmcreationkit/discussion/
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: gimli on March 14, 2012, 06:22:57 am
Quote from: neil_v on March 13, 2012, 06:16:57 pm
Quote from: gimli on March 13, 2012, 03:55:28 pm
I think that this should be a community project or something, to speed up the development. I am prety sure that some ppl could help you.
I wish I could help, but my python skills end at modding Mount and Blade Warband. I hope someone steps up.

Yeah, same here....In fact I don't know anything about coding.  ::) Hopefully some lads from the forum / sourceforge site will accept the challange.  :)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 14, 2012, 07:12:03 am
Well who knows, right now we have a team of three, one who knows python decently enough to be teaching me, a second who's apperently a quick learner, and then there is me, a guy who will be more likely to screw this up. So the competence rate is already 2 to 1, which means the project might actually stand a chance now.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 14, 2012, 06:49:46 pm
Ooooh! Just shake your little rump and give it a little bump, cause we're looking for more coders! Yeah!!  ;D
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Exlo on March 14, 2012, 07:18:32 pm
MY GOODNESS! The dorfiness of such a program is... Its unthinkable! I'll be keeping an eye on this.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -HELP/INFO needed-
Post by: Vandala on March 15, 2012, 07:00:37 pm
A small update on things.

We've managed to push some code that can be downloaded up on sourceforge, this should not require an account plus it's python code which you should be able to run like a program. So if you wanna try out how it currently looks just download the file "main_app" and have a look. I hope this works.

The file should be available here, if not try the sourceforge link on the first page and dick around a bit.
https://sourceforge.net/p/dfmcreationkit/code/ci/ce3519d752d111600ecb7ea00af1a3fa0798a4b8/tree/source/

Work from now on will probably be a slow process, I don't know how often I can give updates.
I will be bumping this topic up to the first page once in a while in the hope to attract codes, hope y'all don't mind.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -always looking for coders-
Post by: Vandala on March 16, 2012, 08:46:54 am
BACK! Back to the first page you! Silly topic.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -always looking for coders-
Post by: Vandala on March 16, 2012, 11:24:09 pm
Wow, people have bin busy tonight, back to the first page.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -always looking for coders-
Post by: Vandala on March 17, 2012, 06:33:57 pm
Coding goes ever so slowly.

Still trying to figure even basic things out.

We'll get there eventually.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -always looking for coders-
Post by: Vandala on March 19, 2012, 08:29:57 am
Bad news, I could be gone for a month or so.

I'm trying to switch internet providers but the new provider suddenly can't sent over a guy to install the new box on the previously agreed time. Which could potentially screw me over since I've already canceled my old provider around that time. Which means no internet for a month to a month and a half. Which also means me being unable to work on the project as effectively since I need a connection in order to work with the sourceforge website.

I'll probably be without internet at the end of the month unless I can manage to prolong my old subscription by a month or so.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -always looking for coders-
Post by: gimli on March 19, 2012, 09:36:39 am
 :( No more volunteers for the project? Basically you are working on it alone? I find it hard to believe that no1 wants to help [who knows coding at least..], since this tool would be extremely popular for sure. Probably one of the most popular DF tools ever, since it would make modding so easy.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -always looking for coders-
Post by: Vandala on March 19, 2012, 12:25:13 pm
Don't be silly, there's three of us.

Sadly no more then that though.

We could use more python users!!
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -always looking for coders-
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on March 19, 2012, 01:02:27 pm
Okay this looks amazing, I wish I knew python so I could help out.

Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -always looking for coders-
Post by: Vandala on March 19, 2012, 01:30:02 pm
Or you could try and start to learn. It's not like I know it either.  ;D
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -always looking for coders-
Post by: neil_v on March 19, 2012, 05:19:38 pm
I'm thinking about biting the bullet and learning python (will be beneficial in the future)... I'll get back to you on this thought.
 
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -always looking for coders-
Post by: Vandala on March 20, 2012, 05:53:22 am
Awesome!

Now to get everyone to use linux as well.

BWAHAHAHA!!

(seriously though, linux is easier to work with then windows, it's never to late to try people!)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -always looking for coders-
Post by: neil_v on March 20, 2012, 11:11:29 am
I use Linux and windows both. Neither are easy to use, really. My Grand parents cant just fire up either OS from a fresh install and just be able to do the things they want without a whole lot of messing around ( I use them as an example as they have a limited range of things that they do). It's all broken, and neither is truly better.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -always looking for coders-
Post by: Vandala on March 20, 2012, 11:29:00 am
Hose pose! Linux is better.  ::)

But since you have it, find Eclipse in your repository, then see if you also have Mercurial and Meld (and python). Get a sourceforge account and give me your account name so I can add you to the project.

That's all you need to get started I think. I can give you a few links I use myself to help with coding, plus I can give you a list and order of terminal commands to pull and push code.

What linux distro are you using?
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -always looking for coders-
Post by: neil_v on March 20, 2012, 04:38:48 pm
Quote
Hose pose! Linux is better
:P

Mint (Ubuntu basically). Older distro, 9ish. I never updated.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -always looking for coders-
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on March 20, 2012, 10:51:31 pm
Ah see now I definately can't help, don't have a linux machine, I had plans for one but never got around to it.


I know Python tends to be Multi-platformed, will there be a Windows version of this program?
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -always looking for coders-
Post by: Putnam on March 20, 2012, 10:53:00 pm
Since this program is in Python, you should be able to run it on any machine that can run python. Windows is one such OS.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -always looking for coders-
Post by: Vandala on March 21, 2012, 01:28:43 am
It will run on anything that has python, that's correct, linux, windows, mac, hell even your phone is a possibility though that's probably a bad idea.

Also, you don't have to have a linux pc, just download a live cd of a linux distro that has one (such as ubuntu) and you can have linux on a windows pc without even needing to actually installing it. Just google it, it's way easy.
===
I use crunchbang, love that distro, completely configurable to your own wishes.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -always looking for coders-
Post by: Vandala on March 25, 2012, 07:09:39 pm
Still working.

Almost got something people could use tonight but sadly I could not get it to work yet.

Maybe I'll have more luck tomorrow.

Don't get your hopes up though, it ain't much at all.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -always looking for coders-
Post by: Vandala on March 25, 2012, 08:23:26 pm
Oops, heh, clearly I suck so much that I can't even code unsupervised.

I just lost everything.

Don't worry though, there are always backups. Just don't expect anything tomorrow. Sorry.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -always looking for coders-
Post by: neil_v on March 25, 2012, 10:57:21 pm
Brutal   :'(

I'm not going to be able to help out. I am going to learn python, just not within a useful time frame.
Keep plugging away! You rock!
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -always looking for coders-
Post by: Vandala on March 26, 2012, 06:10:28 am
Sweet, got a hold of the backup, things are back on track!
===
neil_v, if you got yourself a working brain then your probably one step ahead of me.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *under construction* -always looking for coders-
Post by: Vandala on March 26, 2012, 07:32:08 am
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6008

Not exactly as I wanted it but here is something for you people anyway, at least it sort of works.
Don't expect anything or your hopes will be crushed.

This is just to see if it works so far with other people and a chance for me to give people a hands-on experience of what we have so far. (which is almost nothing at all)

Heh, as for some extra fun (if you feel like torturing yourself), try to find which two buttons of the creature abilities already do 'something'. HA, good luck with that one!

====================================
Alright, here's what you do.

1 Place zip where you want it.
2 Unzip
3 Dubbel click on "main_app.py"

That should work.

Remember, this program is still crap, so delete all of it afterward.

Stuff that works:
Go to the "Mod General Tab" > Go to the "DF: Game Settings" tab > Go to "Color Settings" tab > push buttons there to see what works.
As a fun extra see if you can import your own colorset, the program should pick up on it if you place it with the other colorset files.

PS: Only works if you have python installed!!!
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: Vandala on March 26, 2012, 12:22:30 pm
If anyone could tell me if it at least starts up on a windows system that would be great?
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: neil_v on March 26, 2012, 02:45:40 pm
Module wx not found.

Im assuming I now need wxglade installed. Other than the fact it wont run, it works great!
I can edit the .py's with IDLE, and its giving me an error report, so that's good news.

Windows users will need this:
http://www.python.org/

Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: Vandala on March 26, 2012, 03:05:30 pm
Nice, that's the kind of thing I feared.

Good chance your right.

Not sure how I'm going to solve that though, forcing everyone to install a wx program isn't desirable, weird though that it's not standard with python, I kinda expected that.
Not sure why I'm not having the same problem, guess linux just recognizes that stuff automatically.
Probably have to include the wx library into the program somehow, or find an easy way to get users to install wx program/library.

Well, thanks at least.

And you can have fun with it, completely open source so do what you will with it.
You can try finding a program like wxglade (don't know if glade is for windows, you could try) and see if it works then. I'm not holding my breath for that though.

PS: Just checked, wxglade is cross-platform so you should be able to at least get a hold of it and make it work. glade itself can't do anything with the files you have now though, you could try it out with this http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=5860 , it's not up-to-date but you can see what it does. It's a very simple program, even I got the hang of it rather quickly by simply playing with it.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: smokebubble on March 26, 2012, 09:35:58 pm
Couldn't you use something like py2exe to package all the required parts together?
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: Vandala on March 27, 2012, 08:00:37 am
Quote from: smokebubble on March 26, 2012, 09:35:58 pm
Couldn't you use something like py2exe to package all the required parts together?
Ooh, neat. I'll be toying with that in the future. Thank you.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: caddybear on March 28, 2012, 04:27:48 am
This ought to be huge.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: Vandala on March 28, 2012, 08:16:51 pm
Huge how? File size? Not really, it's code, code is just text.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: Putnam on March 28, 2012, 08:44:43 pm
Huge in the sense that wireless internet is huge.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: neil_v on March 28, 2012, 09:05:04 pm
LOL! I think he meant in popularity. Which is true. it will be the silver colossus of modding tools.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: Vandala on March 28, 2012, 10:37:30 pm
IF it ever gets done that is. *sigh* I such so much at coding.

Just remembered, I'll not be having Internet problems. Not that I'm getting my new connection any faster but at least I won't be loosing what I now have. I'm quite happy about that. I can't really live without it anymore I'm afraid.

EDIT: Wait, wireless internet is huge? What? Really? Wireless is pretty crap and so insecure. I'll never go back to that now that I know just how bad it is. I wouldn't want to use it unless everything I sent was encrypted.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: ccoolleeiiss on April 03, 2012, 07:12:15 pm
god, i hope you finish this soon. i suck at modding dwarf fortress no matter how hard i try. just you even trying this makes you deserving of a medal. thank you.


P.S. please get it working on windows :)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: Tierre on May 03, 2012, 05:47:48 am
No progress? Dead Project?:( Damn and i wanted to try it out...
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: ccoolleeiiss on May 05, 2012, 11:58:56 pm
Quote from: Tierre on May 03, 2012, 05:47:48 am
No progress? Dead Project?:( Damn and i wanted to try it out...

no! I refuse to belive it!
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: medikohl on May 06, 2012, 12:31:56 am
I know for a fact Vandala didn't just disappear.  I keep seeing posts in the Starfarer forums. (I've been doing sprite art for that)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: Vandala on May 18, 2012, 07:16:24 am
Wow, haven't bin here in a long time.

No the project isn't exactly dead, but its also not really alive either.

Its in a rather grotesquely undead state right now. It exists, it is not forgotten, but no work is being done.

The truth is I'm a little addicted to Starfarer right now and haven't done any work on what I ought to be doing. Which is coding for dwarf fortress.

*hangs head in shame* I'm sorry.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: gimli on July 11, 2012, 07:48:56 pm
Ah well, hopefully you will start to work on this tool sooner or later. The community really needs a decent mod creator IMO. :)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: Putnam on July 11, 2012, 07:52:04 pm
Quote from: gimli on July 11, 2012, 07:48:56 pm
Ah well, hopefully you will start to work on this tool sooner or later. The community really needs a decent mod creator IMO. :)

>_> (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=103360.0)
< (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:DF2012:Tokens)_< (http://notepad-plus-plus.org/)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: Toxicshadow on July 11, 2012, 08:44:32 pm
No....
If this gets completed as a full program that does all the modding for you... It'll be the fall of real modders and DF will get spammed with crap (Like my mod, or like how Minecraft has an infinite number of mods written)
I'm sorry for being negative, it's just, DX DF Shouldn't get spammed with crap mods that only add 1-2 creatures, nor should it get spammed with infinite numbers of total conversions.

But, to make you feel better about the situation, good luck writting it. I hated Python. I got pretty good at it, and realized it sucked. Imo it's GUI support sucks. Its IDE was nice, the language's syntax was very nice, but no one really used it. (For what I need)
Idk, that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: Putnam on July 11, 2012, 08:47:28 pm
Quote from: Toxicshadow on July 11, 2012, 08:44:32 pm
No....
If this gets completed as a full program that does all the modding for you... It'll be the fall of real modders and DF will get spammed with crap (Like my mod, or like how Minecraft has an infinite number of mods written)
I'm sorry for being negative, it's just, DX DF Shouldn't get spammed with crap mods that only add 1-2 creatures, nor should it get spammed with infinite numbers of total conversions.

But, to make you feel better about the situation, good luck writting it. I hated Python. I got pretty good at it, and realized it sucked. Imo it's GUI support sucks. Its IDE was nice, the language's syntax was very nice, but no one really used it. (For what I need)
Idk, that's just my opinion.

I... don't think that'll happen.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: Toxicshadow on July 11, 2012, 08:49:56 pm
Quote from: Putnam on July 11, 2012, 08:47:28 pm
Quote from: Toxicshadow on July 11, 2012, 08:44:32 pm
No....
If this gets completed as a full program that does all the modding for you... It'll be the fall of real modders and DF will get spammed with crap (Like my mod, or like how Minecraft has an infinite number of mods written)
I'm sorry for being negative, it's just, DX DF Shouldn't get spammed with crap mods that only add 1-2 creatures, nor should it get spammed with infinite numbers of total conversions.

But, to make you feel better about the situation, good luck writting it. I hated Python. I got pretty good at it, and realized it sucked. Imo it's GUI support sucks. Its IDE was nice, the language's syntax was very nice, but no one really used it. (For what I need)
Idk, that's just my opinion.

I... don't think that'll happen.
Maybe(hopefully not) it wont. But do you see the risk here? Think of it like Nazi scientists performing controlled tests that turn creatures into a zombified form. It might not happen, but one *could* get out and then it's a zombie(crap mod) apocolypse.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on July 11, 2012, 09:04:14 pm
And the debate begins, Personally This might be good for freshmen. But could hinder some more custom options that a advanced modder can do with a simple WP, Heck I use Notepad still. For these reasons

1. My computer has a thing for making all text Italics which means all fancy WP suffer this fate 'But' Notepad.
2. Notepad lacks a "Let me guess what you're trying to drag and select, Oh there is a "]" let me grab that for you, oh an empty space I'll get that for you" No I know what I want to select by dragging don't need to AI assuming crap.
3. I'm cool like that. (Not really I just like Notepad)
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: gimli on July 14, 2012, 02:50:01 pm
Quote from: Toxicshadow on July 11, 2012, 08:44:32 pm
No....
If this gets completed as a full program that does all the modding for you... It'll be the fall of real modders and DF will get spammed with crap (Like my mod, or like how Minecraft has an infinite number of mods written)
I'm sorry for being negative, it's just, DX DF Shouldn't get spammed with crap mods that only add 1-2 creatures, nor should it get spammed with infinite numbers of total conversions.

But, to make you feel better about the situation, good luck writting it. I hated Python. I got pretty good at it, and realized it sucked. Imo it's GUI support sucks. Its IDE was nice, the language's syntax was very nice, but no one really used it. (For what I need)
Idk, that's just my opinion.

Ok seriously wtf?  :o .. It's like you will be forced to download any mods created with this or any other toolkits.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: SashaGelert on August 15, 2012, 03:31:10 pm
Does anyone have a way to find/contact vandala?  would love to get a progress update on the program.
Title: Re: Dwarf Fortress Mod Creation Kit *get the first view of the program*
Post by: fred1248 on August 16, 2012, 05:43:38 am
Quote from: Toxicshadow on July 11, 2012, 08:49:56 pm
Quote from: Putnam on July 11, 2012, 08:47:28 pm
Quote from: Toxicshadow on July 11, 2012, 08:44:32 pm
No....
If this gets completed as a full program that does all the modding for you... It'll be the fall of real modders and DF will get spammed with crap (Like my mod, or like how Minecraft has an infinite number of mods written)
I'm sorry for being negative, it's just, DX DF Shouldn't get spammed with crap mods that only add 1-2 creatures, nor should it get spammed with infinite numbers of total conversions.

But, to make you feel better about the situation, good luck writting it. I hated Python. I got pretty good at it, and realized it sucked. Imo it's GUI support sucks. Its IDE was nice, the language's syntax was very nice, but no one really used it. (For what I need)
Idk, that's just my opinion.

I... don't think that'll happen.
Maybe(hopefully not) it wont. But do you see the risk here? Think of it like Nazi scientists performing controlled tests that turn creatures into a zombified form. It might not happen, but one *could* get out and then it's a zombie(crap mod) apocolypse.

...What