Bay 12 Games Forum
Dwarf Fortress => DF Suggestions => Topic started by: Lord Zack on February 07, 2011, 08:37:18 pm
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The playhouse of mad wizards, home to countless monsters and filled to the brim with both traps and treasure. Dungeons are fun (in more than one sense...). I'd like to see them in Dwarf Fortress. Adventurers would certainly explore them in Adventurer Mode. In Fortress Mode having a dungeon near you could be a blessing and a curse. You could find useful stuff in the dungeon, but it's also a source of danger/fun.
Dungeons might be small, or very large. Perhaps the biggest might even connect to the hidden fun stuff (a limited connection though, that only serves to stock the dungeon, rather than having the creatures go through the dungeon to attack you're fortress, most of the time at least. If you discover the passage that would count as discovering the HFS). There could be a variety of different areas in a dungeon, like ruins, hidden temples, mazes, the caves, etc.
So what do you think about the idea?
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I think it's already in the works on the dev page... various sites (castles, town, mines, manors, etc) that fall into disuse and become home to monster/bandits or whatever.
I'm excited for this to finally happen.
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I haven't found one in Adventure Mode, but in fortress mode there are occasionally (if not always?) 'structures' to be discovered if you look in the right place that (at least in my experience) have something of what you're asking for. If I got an Adventurer down to that level (which should be possible, with a bit of effort and exploration), I'm not sure whether he'd actually have the opportunity to 'unplug' the HFS, but someone else may know if it's possible.
Right now, the Mountainhomes settlement creation really needs some more tweaking to make it as reliably dungeon-like as an abandoned player-built place could be, but I think that's one of the things on the way. And if that gives ready access to the aforementioned, then I think that might satisfy most of your request.
Plus there are extensive aboveground-fortifications which might [snip]... oh, ninjaed... Well, anyway.
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Ruins are cool. However I'd also like to have Castle Greyhawk, or Undermountain-like "megadungeons". Sprawling underground complexes that have little reason to exist other than some crazy wizard or some such decided that it should exist.
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Ruins are cool. However I'd also like to have Castle Greyhawk, or Undermountain-like "megadungeons". Sprawling underground complexes that have little reason to exist other than some crazy wizard or some such decided that it should exist.
I'm pretty sure this was the original intent of Fortress mode.
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Frankly, I'd prefer underground complexes with a reason to exist and a bit of traceable history. The "sprawling underground corridor complex with random monsters, random rooms and random loot" schtick has been done soooooo many times. Even most roguelikes insert a level that is meaningfully designed from time to time, just to break the tedium.
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I like the idea of a world generated in Dwarf Fortress containing many complete, traditional roguelike dungeons just as little minor sites you can happen upon.
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I like the idea of a world generated in Dwarf Fortress containing many complete, traditional roguelike dungeons just as little minor sites you can happen upon.
The issue with that is that there'd need to be some rationale involved with how and why they're there. It could very well be 'unknown forces', of course.
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Or you could make current intelilgent creatures show their intelligence a little more...
What if antmen in the caverns actually started digging out colonies for themselves and their queen?
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now that would be something, having an intelligent enemy/competition that drove you to do more with your fort. though obviously you would need for it to be be able to be disabled in the ints or ppl would complain. but then again every new challenging feature has people insisting that it can be turned off in the ints.
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It could just be somewhat logic-breaking. They dig on Comic Book Time, only when you're not looking. They stop digging whenever you actually embark.
Still, digging enemies are a part of the upcoming siege stuff on the devpage (very bottom of the page), and yes, it has an init option. It would probably be more of an Adventurer mode thing, but if you don't want them in your fortress, then the obvious answer is not to embark on top of antmen (which would mean that people would probably want some sort of embark map indicator that cavern civs are present).
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yeah but i think they were more getting at goblins being able to dig...
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I have seen that there was a "Dungeon Arc" in the old dev pages, so it seems that Toady has considered these things. However, I'd definitely like to see more than just ruins. I'd like to see sprawling, Castle Greyhawk or Undermountain-type things. There are reason such things might exist. They could be hideaways for treasure, home to dark armies, hideouts for enemy leaders or just the creation of a mad wizard or perhaps even a bored noble.
Also, I'm building my own dungeon in Fortress Mode. I'm planning on having several levels, with a variety of themes, connecting to at least one cave, and if possible, getting to the HFS.
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Dwarf Fortress already ARE sprawling dungeons!
Look at it this way. An insanely complex maze, filled with amazing weapons and terrible monsters. What is that, your typical nethack style dungeon, or an abandoned dwarf fortress?
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Well this is an interesting solution to a problem that has already been solved.
Problem: In adventure mode, if you want to explore a large dungeon you have to make your own in dwarf mode. This means that you know all the twists and turns of your fortress, and beyond finding a few goblins hanging out in the cellers, there is little surprise.
Solution: Well first and formost, people make large and fun forts, then trade them over the intertubes. It means some nce and unique works for you to explore and figure out. Secondly, we have the caverns. While these can be open and easy to move around in, they are hell to navigate... Once you go in, chances are you do not come out, making for great laberenths to test your survival, especialy in some mods that include more viciouse beasts. The problem is that caverns are rather unrewarding to explore. This can be fixed by modders, once again, by giving creatures unique drops, but it would be nice for toady to make the caverns a little more interesting, a great start being allowing us to give creatures weapons, rather then just entitys, but what ever.
So we do sort of already have natural dungeons, however, I think this suggestion still carrys merit. As Capntastic bought into light, reason is a nice thing, but not hard to apply. Even as hardcoded site tags for underground civs, the abilty for antmen to build underground citys and such would be a very nice touch.
So in the end, supported! I trust Toady to do amazing works if he picks this up, and it would add to the game a lot.
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. Secondly, we have the caverns. While these can be open and easy to move around in, they are hell to navigate... Once you go in, chances are you do not come out, making for great laberenths to test your survival, especialy in some mods that include more viciouse beasts.
Yeah, I lost several adventurers, after clearing out in the cavern what I needed to, having no idea where the exit was. Which lead me to think of maybe some pathfinding mechanic, which lead me to think of Hansel and Grettle's breadcrumbs, which lead me to think of the DF version of breadcrumbs, leaving a trail of blood and severed body parts to find your way out. :P Which would actually work...
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You know, on the topic of dungeons, though, I had a suggestion a few months back involving Raw-Generatable Procedural Maps (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63054.msg1453010#msg1453010). The basic premise is that we could generate player-created rooms, buildings, ruins, whatever, make them in raws, include modular pieces inside those rooms and buildings, and then use procedural construction based off these raws in worldgen.
This would mean that a modder could create a new race/civilization, give that race their own particular style of archetecture by settting a bunch of variables in how the procedural generation works and making a few raws for building floor plans, and we could wind up with a host of player-made architecture styles.
Basically, if we applied this to dungeons, we could potentially literally make some NetHack style dungeons, created by specific modded-in races of beings that still inhabit their fortresses and protect them. And then we could all share these dungeons we built over DFFD, and some people might make super-mod packs like what Genesis Mod does by combining enough little things to make dozens of mods into one giant package. Basically, we'd eventually have some super "Adventurer's Tour" mod, where multiple procedurally-created castles and dungeons pockmark every corner of the map.