Post by: notquitethere on February 18, 2015, 11:05:15 am
CHOOSE-YOUR-OWN-MAFIAS
Choose Your Own Mafias is a sequel to Choose Your Own Masquerade (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140835.0). It's a mafia game in which points which can be spent on powers. It has the following features:
Character Creation You get to build your own power-set and can even buy and sell new powers with experience points earned throughout the game.
Two Mafias/Choose-Your-Own-Third-Party Numbers permitting, there will be either two mafia teams, third parties, or (most likely) both.
Deep South (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Deep_South) There's no night, actions happen when they're sent in, but may be queued up in advance.
Masquerade Each player is assigned a mask colour at the beginning of the game, and they only know the colour of their own mask and what other mask colours there are in play. Powers can only be targeted at masks, not players. Votes still target players.
Civilians There are npc masks in play at the start of the game. They each have a random power and auto but won't act on their own volition as per the rules for Patsies.
Point Frenzy Unlike previous games, players start with ten points at character creation.
At the beginning of the game, each player is allotted an alignment (either town or scum or third party), and a mask colour (red, purple etc.), and has ten points to spend on powers. They can also take up to -5 points in flaws. The mafia don't get a mafiakill by default, but they do have a chat in which they can discuss (among other things) how they'll build their powers. Character Creation will last 24 hours or until everyone has sent in a build, whichever happens first.
A scum team can't collectively kill more than one target in a phase (poisoning, infecting, killing, copying kills and booby-trapping all count as killing, secondary infections and explosions don't count). They may target multiple kills but only one will succeed. A player can only use one power per day, unless they have an auto that says otherwise. If a player targets themselves with a non-self targeting power, it will fail. Actions that would fail still happen, so may be affected by tracking, reflecting, networker etc.
Kills won't be processed for the first 24 hours of each Day, to allow everyone a chance to see the thread and send in an action.
After the lynch the day resets and every player gets 1 point for surviving the day. Once per day, a player can Shop: when shopping they can buy off any flaws they have, cash in any power for half its original cost rounded down and buy new powers. A power can't be sold if it's been used that day, but players can queue up buying and selling to happen as soon as the new day starts (so they're not hanging around with unspent points). While you can have duplicates of a power, you can't sell the same named power more than once in a day (e.g. you have two copies of Protect, you can only sell one of them in a day, even if you have Duplicate).
Spoiler: Mafia Rules (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Masquerade Power List (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Action Resolution Order and Queued Action Rules (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Alignments (click to show/hide)
Sign Ups
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- 4maskwolf
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- Flabort
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Replacements
- Cheeetar
Post by: notquitethere on February 18, 2015, 11:09:38 am
Before the game starts, I might rebalance some point costs or 3rd party wincons. If you have any concerns, voice them. If anyone has a truly broken combo that they don't want to publicly share, then PM me.
Advice on character building: if your strategy relies on using a specific power, make that power innate to avoid it being stolen.
As the list is very long, here's the powers listed under thematic categories:
Spoiler: Powers by Function (click to show/hide)
If you're stuck for ideas, here's some character builds:
Spoiler: Example Builds (click to show/hide)
Post by: Teneb on February 18, 2015, 11:09:58 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 18, 2015, 11:20:47 am
In, you magnificent bastard.
Post by: notquitethere on February 18, 2015, 11:21:47 am
Post by: Persus13 on February 18, 2015, 11:29:18 am
Replacement, for when Deathsword inevitably replaces out and is Mafia.
Post by: Teneb on February 18, 2015, 11:31:58 am
Replacement, for when Deathsword inevitably replaces out and is Mafia.I've been trying to change that pattern. Truth be told, I had that (quitting partway) for a lot of things in my life. Hopefully I sorted that out and will stick to stuff from now on.
Also, welcome back 4maskwolf.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 18, 2015, 11:43:37 am
Planning... plotting...
Thank you, Deathsword. I dunno how long I'm gonna be back for, just due to the craziness of my life, but whatevs.
Post by: notquitethere on February 18, 2015, 11:52:08 am
You should probably remove deregulate from the list, NQT, since it does nothing nowadays.Removed, cheers.
I've put up a list of the powers organised by type in the second post, which might make things a bit easier for some players when building.
Post by: Teneb on February 18, 2015, 11:55:53 am
Post by: notquitethere on February 18, 2015, 12:03:34 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 18, 2015, 12:27:29 pm
Would this be considered a bastard game?
Post by: Shakerag on February 18, 2015, 12:31:13 pm
Post by: notquitethere on February 18, 2015, 12:32:54 pm
Would this be considered a bastard game?No, quite the opposite really. A bastard game is one where the mod doesn't tell the players all the rules. Here all the rules and possible combinations are know, but the exact roles and distribution are unknown (but discoverable).
Post by: Varee on February 18, 2015, 01:12:20 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 18, 2015, 02:24:24 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 18, 2015, 02:42:39 pm
really?
Post by: notquitethere on February 18, 2015, 02:44:47 pm
Origami Sciene Guy?Uh, typo. Should have copy-pasted it.
really?
Post by: flabort on February 18, 2015, 03:20:31 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 18, 2015, 03:30:04 pm
Post by: hector13 on February 18, 2015, 04:34:56 pm
Post by: notquitethere on February 18, 2015, 04:39:22 pm
So if I get booby trap and designate it on Kill, isnt that a little OP?If the previous two games are anything to go by, town kill more players than scum. (In fact, as far as I can tell, scum have never killed anyone in CYOM.) Furthermore, there's seven different ways of killing someone, and booby-trap can be negated by taking Cautious. Players that shoot blind in this game know the risks they're incurring.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 18, 2015, 04:46:28 pm
Post by: notquitethere on February 18, 2015, 04:52:13 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 18, 2015, 05:05:13 pm
This ought to be interesting then.
Post by: Tiruin on February 18, 2015, 05:09:35 pm
<_<
>_>
<_<
IN
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 18, 2015, 06:07:01 pm
Post by: flabort on February 18, 2015, 07:22:10 pm
The Third Party choices look interesting, and Recall more so. I have an idea what to do with that power if I'm a certain alignment...
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 18, 2015, 07:29:42 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on February 18, 2015, 07:48:22 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 18, 2015, 07:51:07 pm
Er... in. This will almost certainly confuse me greatly.You and me both...
Post by: notquitethere on February 18, 2015, 07:51:22 pm
There's still a safety buffer at day start so that someone not around doesn't get instakilled, right?This is correct:
24 hours of grace period.
You have time to set up protects, redirects etc.
This will almost certainly confuse me greatly.Hopefully.
Post by: hector13 on February 18, 2015, 07:52:20 pm
Either that, or I'll Mr. Bean my way to a win.
Post by: ToonyMan on February 18, 2015, 08:06:12 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 18, 2015, 08:06:57 pm
Pfft, this is my first non-beginner game, if anyone's going to get confuddled, it'll be me.Hehe... this will be my second mafia game... ever....
Either that, or I'll Mr. Bean my way to a win.
So trail by fire!
Post by: notquitethere on February 18, 2015, 08:18:42 pm
I would love to join, but I think I'm fairly booked with real life affairs.That's a shame. If you become more free, feel free to jump on to the replacements list.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 18, 2015, 08:34:50 pm
That was a game of broken powers and massive swings of fortune.
To break it down, there were five broken powers:
Convert: did the obvious for the scumteam, cost 7 points.
Fortune Teller: gave a FULL list of everything in play, and was the only reason the town won that game.
Flavor Cop: 2 points, gave flavortext based on the targets powers and autos, the problem is that it basically served as power cop for three fewer points given the way the flavor was written and the limited power options.
Infalliable Alignment cop, and the whole alignment cop related powers
Recycle. Because goddamn recycle-sap.
Basically, recycle was a three-point power that sold all of the target's powers and autos back at full price. This game also had nights, and you should know that power buying only happened RIGHT before the night phase started. There was also a day modifier for powers. So people would recycle at night, then sap during the day: you were stuck at 0 points with all of your flaws and nothing else.
Post by: notquitethere on February 18, 2015, 08:38:19 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on February 18, 2015, 08:38:51 pm
Post by: flabort on February 18, 2015, 08:57:11 pm
Inflate, Recall, and flexible together are only 10 points. You could inflate Recall and then if other people did the same, you could earn a ton of points to buy something good on day 2 or 3.
3-4 people with this strategy could make a 4-8 point profit, and have all the points invested into Recall back, by day 2, or 8-16 plus the original 7 by day 3. It could make for a very rich town if more people do the same.
Post by: Jim Groovester on February 18, 2015, 10:48:14 pm
Sadly my endless free time I've been enjoying for the past many months is coming to an end.
Post by: Persus13 on February 18, 2015, 11:23:11 pm
hehehe I remember the first CYOM....You forgot how extremely broken Miller was, and how Tiruin and some others got a ton of flack for not picking Miller.
That was a game of broken powers and massive swings of fortune.
To break it down, there were five broken powers:
Convert: did the obvious for the scumteam, cost 7 points.
Fortune Teller: gave a FULL list of everything in play, and was the only reason the town won that game.
Flavor Cop: 2 points, gave flavortext based on the targets powers and autos, the problem is that it basically served as power cop for three fewer points given the way the flavor was written and the limited power options.
Infalliable Alignment cop, and the whole alignment cop related powers
Recycle. Because goddamn recycle-sap.
Basically, recycle was a three-point power that sold all of the target's powers and autos back at full price. This game also had nights, and you should know that power buying only happened RIGHT before the night phase started. There was also a day modifier for powers. So people would recycle at night, then sap during the day: you were stuck at 0 points with all of your flaws and nothing else.
Post by: Teneb on February 19, 2015, 09:05:07 am
It was pretty brutal for everyone, including the unlucky scum players, but especially for the hapless good-natured town players that chose solid investigative roles and immediately had all their powers stolen by their more avaricious team-mates.
I remember changelings filled with flaws crippling the scum team with a lucky hit.
Post by: Varee on February 19, 2015, 09:16:17 am
It was pretty brutal for everyone, including the unlucky scum players, but especially for the hapless good-natured town players that chose solid investigative roles and immediately had all their powers stolen by their more avaricious team-mates.
Hmm that kinda remind me of something......
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 19, 2015, 10:02:43 am
That was TheDarkStar, yes. In addition, he gained the scum player's innocent, which outed Objective then and there, particularly when Jack confirmed it with flavor cop. Which was funny, we might have lynched him there, but the converter was more important. Thanks to NativeForeigner, we found the converter (Deathsword/Persus13) and kept the game from being a complete blowout scum victory. Tawarochir had kind of outed himself the day before by quickhammering P-Luke, and so it basically came down to Jim Groovester or Leafsnail as the last scum. TDS shot Jim, we lynched Leafsnail the following day, and then it came down to finding who the scum had converted that night. The logical choice was mastahcheese, as he had the most points, so I roleblocked him and Jack, independently reaching the same conclusion, inspected him with his infalliable alignment cop. So he couldn't do his shennanigans, we lynched him the next day, and at that point it was a curb-stomp.It was pretty brutal for everyone, including the unlucky scum players, but especially for the hapless good-natured town players that chose solid investigative roles and immediately had all their powers stolen by their more avaricious team-mates.
I remember changelings filled with flaws crippling the scum team with a lucky hit.
Hehehe Choose-Your-Own-Masquerade went differently, but I think someone else should explain that one. Changeling had to be nerfed after that one, let's put it that way.
Post by: Tiruin on February 19, 2015, 10:29:59 am
Hey, its you guys! :DEr... in. This will almost certainly confuse me greatly.You and me both...
Alright, filling you out briefly.
This is like an RPG. You create your character. This is Mafia. So its like a Mafia RPG where you create your role.
When the game is filled with player slots (and replacement slots--there'll mostly be one person in need of a replacement in these games, somehow, but its also great to have other people watching the thread), then we will all be assigned our alignment.
That is when Role Creation starts, with the 10 points // +5 bonus points from flaws.
That's when you make your role, suggestively tailored to the alignment you have been given (ie Scum teams would be advised to make teamwork-roles, or go alone...though this is not recommended.)
So its rather a game which builds your scumhunting and deduction sense, rather than rely on the ol' vanilla hardset of Roles and setup debating. Its you and the world vs the World.
Also this game has undergone nice field-test changes!
There is no more of:
-Day abilities.
-Recycle.
-Everything else 4mask mentioned.
-Many, many tweaks!
Post by: hector13 on February 19, 2015, 10:45:06 am
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 19, 2015, 10:47:56 am
Question: do the mafia gt an automatic kill, or does one of the mafia have to take the kill ability?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 19, 2015, 10:50:03 am
I'm sure it will sill be messy, but in a good way :) I can imagine a townie pardoning a mafia and other shenanigans happening.The latter, there is no factional kill.
Question: do the mafia gt an automatic kill, or does one of the mafia have to take the kill ability?
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 19, 2015, 11:02:22 am
Post by: Persus13 on February 19, 2015, 12:22:10 pm
You're forgetting Mastahcheese asked to be inspected by Jack, but yeah, this is a pretty good summary.That was TheDarkStar, yes. In addition, he gained the scum player's innocent, which outed Objective then and there, particularly when Jack confirmed it with flavor cop. Which was funny, we might have lynched him there, but the converter was more important. Thanks to NativeForeigner, we found the converter (Deathsword/Persus13) and kept the game from being a complete blowout scum victory. Tawarochir had kind of outed himself the day before by quickhammering P-Luke, and so it basically came down to Jim Groovester or Leafsnail as the last scum. TDS shot Jim, we lynched Leafsnail the following day, and then it came down to finding who the scum had converted that night. The logical choice was mastahcheese, as he had the most points, so I roleblocked him and Jack, independently reaching the same conclusion, inspected him with his infalliable alignment cop. So he couldn't do his shennanigans, we lynched him the next day, and at that point it was a curb-stomp.It was pretty brutal for everyone, including the unlucky scum players, but especially for the hapless good-natured town players that chose solid investigative roles and immediately had all their powers stolen by their more avaricious team-mates.
I remember changelings filled with flaws crippling the scum team with a lucky hit.
Hehehe Choose-Your-Own-Masquerade went differently, but I think someone else should explain that one. Changeling had to be nerfed after that one, let's put it that way.
Post by: flabort on February 19, 2015, 01:23:47 pm
Post by: notquitethere on February 19, 2015, 01:48:05 pm
Post by: hector13 on February 19, 2015, 01:58:25 pm
Post by: notquitethere on February 19, 2015, 02:04:01 pm
Post by: hector13 on February 19, 2015, 02:09:19 pm
Post by: Persus13 on February 19, 2015, 02:55:30 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 19, 2015, 03:17:53 pm
Post by: hector13 on February 19, 2015, 03:32:16 pm
Post by: Shakerag on February 19, 2015, 03:40:13 pm
Remember to tailor them to your role though :P no point in being able to murder everyone if you're a townie.Oh? You don't know me very well ...
Post by: Peradon on February 19, 2015, 03:57:38 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 19, 2015, 04:19:21 pm
Post by: hector13 on February 19, 2015, 04:22:08 pm
Post by: Persus13 on February 19, 2015, 08:04:21 pm
Remember to tailor them to your role though :P no point in being able to murder everyone if you're a townie.Actually there is. If everyone except you is dead, you don't have to worry about finding scum and you win.
Post by: hector13 on February 19, 2015, 09:26:47 pm
That's conditional on actually killing scum and third-parties instead of town, though.Remember to tailor them to your role though :P no point in being able to murder everyone if you're a townie.Actually there is. If everyone except you is dead, you don't have to worry about finding scum and you win.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 19, 2015, 10:11:52 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 19, 2015, 10:40:25 pm
Post by: flabort on February 20, 2015, 12:15:01 am
Do you have to pick a certain amount of flaws? Or do you just pick them if you want more points?Just if you want more points.
Post by: notquitethere on February 20, 2015, 04:50:44 am
You will now have received your alignment and mask. Please send me your character as soon as you can. The game will start when all have submitted, or 24 hours from now. Weekends don't count to the day time-limit, but I might start the game during one. I'm locking the thread until game-start, so PM me any queries.
Post by: notquitethere on February 20, 2015, 04:34:57 pm
Without a proper PC for next 12 hours or so, so those who've yet to send in a role have slightly longer to do so.
Post by: notquitethere on February 21, 2015, 05:41:08 pm
Rain Falls Mainly On The Plain
Of late, in the Mabbling Plains it never stops raining. Sixteen oddly shaped figures huddle under a cramped marquee tent. The rain is corrosive and everyone wears a hood, their faces masked against the elements. It's also a precaution: for if one's true identity is known, foul powers can be directed at them. Most of the number are well practiced in these dark arts, some are mere novices. This is the meeting place of the Mabbling Monks.
Accusations of mispractice are rife. Lead turned to gold, novices disappearing, plague in the outlying villages, and this endless rain. The stated aim of this meeting is to route out the malificants. Of course, these malificants and their allies have a different agenda: they mean to destroy the competition and lead the Monks into a direction of their own. And amongst their number, there are some with much stranger intentions.
The assembly crowd around a list of possible suspects. It includes most of their number. The punishment for power abuse is death, so who should be punished first?
Votes
Deathsword
4maskwolf
Peradon
Shakerag
Varee
origamiscienceguy
Flabort
Hector13
Tiruin
TheDarkStar
Deus Asmoth
Persus13
Mask colors: Red, Green, Bronze, White, Gold, Silver, Blue, Orange, Brown, Cream, Purple, Pink, Turquoise, Yellow, Black, Violet
The day ends 12AM GMT on the 26th, or on a hammer of 7 votes. Remember this is a nightless game where actions may be processed at any time. The kill action won't come into effect until Tuesday 12AM.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 21, 2015, 05:55:39 pm
We also seem to have four civilians, so... whoopdiedoo?
Deathsword: You're scum again, aren't you?
Peradon: I haven't really seen you play that much. How many mafia games have you participated in?
Shakerag: Ah, you again. Have you read the previous two games?
Varee: Do you enjoy the rolename you were given by NQT?
origamiscieneguy: Good to see you again. How do you believe your last-day performance in Overlord will affect people's perceptions of you?
flabort: Last game, you were thoroughly duped into supervigging the crap out of the town. Have you learned your lesson about trusting people?
Hector13: Do you find it enjoyable to build roles for this game?
Tiruin: You have, in the past, been both a doctor and a vigilante in this game. Which one did you find more interesting/enjoyable to play?
TheDarkStar: You were a vigilante in Choose-Your-Own-Mafia and shot at least one of the scum players. Do you believe that town vigilantes should shoot indiscriminately or hold their fire until they are sure? Does that unknown factor of the masks change your decision on that?
Deus Asmoth: Darn it I'm running out of questions. Umm... What do you think is the most valuable lesson about the game you have learned from playing mafia?
Persus13: This is your first time being able to actually build your own role! Give a sentence or two of advice to the newer players, preferrably involving the new mechanics.
Post by: Teneb on February 21, 2015, 06:10:18 pm
Deathsword: You're scum again, aren't you?No, I'll have to redeem myself for my previous performance another time.
PeradonDo you feel lucky?[/color]
Varee: If you had a different alignment, would you have picked different powers?
TheDarkStar: Apparently there was a forum game named after you in FGRP, how do you feel about that?
Post by: hector13 on February 21, 2015, 06:25:36 pm
Hector13: Do you find it enjoyable to build roles for this game?
Yes and no.
This is my third mafia game, so I don't really know what I'm going to be doing with any of the powers that were available. It was nice thinking what I could do with them and for which roles they would be best suited, but I don't really have the experience to know which ones are actually best suited for a particular role.
DarkStar, you've been scum in all the games you and I have been involved in. What will you be doing to prove otherwise in this game?
Peradon, Origami, how do you think your experiences in the Beginner's game will influence your performance in this game?
everyone: How do you think the booby-trap power will affect your play?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 21, 2015, 06:29:03 pm
everyone: How do you think the booby-trap power will affect your play?Not at all. I'm not going to cower in fear because I might trigger it by using powers.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 21, 2015, 06:31:01 pm
TheDarkStar: You were a vigilante in Choose-Your-Own-Mafia and shot at least one of the scum players. Do you believe that town vigilantes should shoot indiscriminately or hold their fire until they are sure? Does that unknown factor of the masks change your decision on that?
Vigilantes should hold their fire even more than usual. If they can link a mask and a player who would be a good target, they could act, but random firing is more likely to kill a town-aligned person.
Note that this is only true if it's not a shoot-or-lose situation.
TheDarkStar: Apparently there was a forum game named after you in FGRP, how do you feel about that?
Annoyed but not surprised. There are lots of different places that use places and people with my username that are unrelated to each other. Why do you ask a question that is so unrelated to mafia?
4maskwolf: What do you think of the stranger third party alignments? Also, what do you mean by four civilians/where did you see that?
Tiruin: What kind of cooperation would be effective between town members with different sets of roles?
Shakerag: Why are you scum?
flabort: What powers are safe to randomly use without knowing who each mask belongs to?
PPE:
DarkStar, you've been scum in all the games you and I have been involved in. What will you be doing to prove otherwise in this game?
everyone: How do you think the booby-trap power will affect your play?
I'll play a much more town-oriented game.
Probably not much; the odds of my power(s) being picked as trapped are low.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 21, 2015, 06:33:55 pm
4maskwolf: What do you think of the stranger third party alignments? Also, what do you mean by four civilians/where did you see that?I'm not entirely sure what to make of them, to be honest, I'd have to see them in action first. It listed there being 16 figures, but there are only 12 players. Thus, the other four are the starting patsies with one power and one auto that were mentioned earlier.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 21, 2015, 06:36:23 pm
TheDarkStar: How would you define town-oriented in such a hellishly unpredictable game? Would it be purely playstyle based or are there certain builds that are more "towny" than others?
Unvote
Post by: Deus Asmoth on February 21, 2015, 06:36:55 pm
Have you started your gambit yet?
origamiscienceguy, are you an evil Japanese spy here to murder us all?
Hector: It seems a bit pointless to tie myself in knots over something I can't influence at all, so I'll be trying to ignore it.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 21, 2015, 06:39:37 pm
Mask:Have you started your gambit yet?Now now, calm yourself. There are ways to gambit in this game, but there are also much more efficient ways of play that don't require taking risks. No, I haven't started any gambits.
Quote
It seems a bit pointless to tie myself in knots over something I can't influence at all, so I'll be trying to ignore it.There is an auto which allows you to ignore it, actually. I believe it's called "cautious".
Hector13: Why ask us about that specific power?
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 21, 2015, 06:51:25 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 21, 2015, 06:53:01 pm
4mask: I mean people with a town wincon.I was referring to when you said "I'll play a much more town-oriented game".
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 21, 2015, 06:54:26 pm
TheDarkStar how the hell did you even misinterpret that? And you didn't actually answer my question at all.
Fricking being sick making me miss stuff and having to post repeatedly.
I should probably go back to homework now.
Post by: hector13 on February 21, 2015, 06:54:55 pm
Hector13: Why ask us about that specific power?
It's the most OP power in the game. You get killed for being active, using your powers, not because someone targeted you specifically for DEATH!
I would also just like to bring it to everyone's attention, in case they forgot about it or something. We need to be a bit more careful with our actions, because (as far as I can tell from the rules) it's only the scum who are limited to one kill with the booby-trap power.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 21, 2015, 07:04:26 pm
4mask: I mean people with a town wincon.I was referring to when you said "I'll play a much more town-oriented game".
Oops, I though you were referring to my vigilante-related comment about town-aligned people.
Anyway, playing a town-oriented game means actively trying to find ways to help the town win and scumhunting.
Post by: flabort on February 21, 2015, 07:18:01 pm
flabort: Last game, you were thoroughly duped into supervigging the crap out of the town. Have you learned your lesson about trusting people?Ayup.
everyone: How do you think the booby-trap power will affect your play?Not sure. I don't think I plan on using it, so it doesn't affect me in that way, and I don't have any guesses as to what other people will want to boobytrap.
flabort: What powers are safe to randomly use without knowing who each mask belongs to?Ones that don't target masks, such as inflate, grand swap, Recall, booby-trap, etc.
Ones that only gather information, such as Power-Cop, Peek, scan, etc.
Ones that are completely self-serving, such as Purchase, Graverob, self-reflect, sap, etc.
Varee What power do you think went most underused in the past two games?
Deathsword When is the most appropriate time for a mass claim in this set-up?
Deus Asmoth As the only townie in a double-LYLO situation (1 of each faction, no 3rd parties), what do you do? Assume that both scum teams already reached their kill limits.
Peradon What flaws could you consider to be un-town-like? What flaws are basic gimmes for town?
Everyone Who would you most want, of the players in this game, to be on a scum team with you and why?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 21, 2015, 07:25:27 pm
flabort: Amusingly, you. I'm not entirely sure how you did it, but you managed to stay alive for quite a while in Overlord after being outed as scum by a confirmed cop, and that takes a certain amount of luck and skill to do (to be fair, there were obfuscations to that game, but still). After you, Tiruin, because nobody suspects her and her play is very good when she has time to play.
Post by: Teneb on February 21, 2015, 07:29:28 pm
I was really just looking for an excuse to ask you that. RVS is the only place where I could actually fit that kind of silly question in.TheDarkStar: Apparently there was a forum game named after you in FGRP, how do you feel about that?
Annoyed but not surprised. There are lots of different places that use places and people with my username that are unrelated to each other. Why do you ask a question that is so unrelated to mafia?
Deathsword When is the most appropriate time for a mass claim in this set-up?Power mass-claim, mask mass-claim or both? With the patsies, it gets pretty dangerous to claim masks at any point (unless they all get taken out), because scum and third parties can use that easily fakeclaim. As for claiming powers... I really don't know. LYLO for sure, MYLO maybe.
Everyone Who would you most want, of the players in this game, to be on a scum team with you and why?Tiruin is often overlooked as scum for some reason, probably how friendly she tends to be. Shakerag is probably one of the most experienced players around. Either of them, if I was scum and could choose.
Post by: hector13 on February 21, 2015, 07:32:02 pm
Everyone Who would you most want, of the players in this game, to be on a scum team with you and why?
Not sure, really. I've only played with Origami, Peradon and DarkStar to any great extent. The two former are about as experienced as me, and DS was lynched both times as scum so I'm disinclined to like that :P :))
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 21, 2015, 07:36:53 pm
Everyone Who would you most want, of the players in this game, to be on a scum team with you and why?
Tiruin because she always seems town. 4mask because of his ability to fake a flawless plan.
Post by: Teneb on February 21, 2015, 07:40:44 pm
It's really just to clear it up, but he is TheDarkStar, or TDS. I'm DS. Otherwise I foresee a lot of confusion.Everyone Who would you most want, of the players in this game, to be on a scum team with you and why?
Not sure, really. I've only played with Origami, Peradon and DarkStar to any great extent. The two former are about as experienced as me, and DS was lynched both times as scum so I'm disinclined to like that :P :))
Post by: hector13 on February 21, 2015, 07:44:46 pm
It's really just to clear it up, but he is TheDarkStar, or TDS. I'm DS. Otherwise I foresee a lot of confusion.Everyone Who would you most want, of the players in this game, to be on a scum team with you and why?
Not sure, really. I've only played with Origami, Peradon and DarkStar to any great extent. The two former are about as experienced as me, and DS was lynched both times as scum so I'm disinclined to like that :P :))
Ah. This again...
Post by: Peradon on February 21, 2015, 07:46:06 pm
Peradon: I haven't really seen you play that much. How many mafia games have you participated in?Yeah, this is my second game, and I lost pretty bad in my first, so I will either flourish in this setting, or fail terrably.
PeradonDo you feel lucky?[/color]Not particularly. But this game isnt one of luck, but rather one of logical deduction, so I'm not terrably worried.
Peradon, Origami, how do you think your experiences in the Beginner's game will influence your performance in this game?Well, I certainly wont trust you until I am absolutely sure. (For those who dont know, Hector fooled the whole town into thinking he was the towniest.)
everyone: How do you think the booby-trap power will affect your play?It wont really. I dont think I should worry about it this early in the game. Later on when people know some more about other targets, then maybe I start worrying.
Peradon What flaws could you consider to be un-town-like? What flaws are basic gimmes for town?Well, I'm not sure. Looking back, pretty much all of the -2's are anti-town, but pretty much all of them are anti-town anyway. But blatant is fairly safe I think, maybe broadcaster too.
Everyone Who would you most want, of the players in this game, to be on a scum team with you and why?Well, if I were scum, Hector, definately. But I'm not scum, so this doesnt really apply to me....
Deus Asmoth:That question about Origami seemed to be trying to shift attention. Why did you ask such a non-related question?
Hector13:Assuming you're town, how would your play differ from when you were mafia in the last BM?
Quote
We also seem to have four civilians...4maskwolf:Where the heck did you get this? I dont see anywhere that is says this.
Also, you guys post fast...
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 21, 2015, 07:51:33 pm
There were 16 people mentioned in the Day 1 start post and only 12 players. Simple math works wonders.QuoteWe also seem to have four civilians...4maskwolf:Where the heck did you get this? I dont see anywhere that is says this.
Post by: Teneb on February 21, 2015, 08:04:45 pm
Why are you so focused on making sure to indirectly tell everyone how much you are not scum?Everyone Who would you most want, of the players in this game, to be on a scum team with you and why?Well, if I were scum, Hector, definately. But I'm not scum, so this doesnt really apply to me....
Post by: Peradon on February 21, 2015, 08:11:25 pm
Uh, I'm not. I put the if in there because I didnt want to say I'm scum.Why are you so focused on making sure to indirectly tell everyone how much you are not scum?Everyone Who would you most want, of the players in this game, to be on a scum team with you and why?Well, if I were scum, Hector, definately. But I'm not scum, so this doesnt really apply to me....
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 21, 2015, 08:19:09 pm
Deathsword: seeing as how you said:
Either of them, if I was scum and could choose.I'm not sure why you felt it necessary to point out that Peradon did it too. Care to enlighten me
Post by: Deus Asmoth on February 21, 2015, 08:33:16 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 21, 2015, 08:36:36 pm
Peradon: The entire second sentence in the quote provided was unnecessary, redundant, and fishy: you'd already said how you weren't scum, it wasn't necessary the first time, and generally that kind of thing is frowned on. You're new, so you may not have learned that yet.I dont see it as fishy, but ok.
Peradon, shift attention to who? And what attention am I trying to shift, exactly?I dont know, I was hoping you would answer that for me. Why did you post a rediculous question like that? It does nothing to aid the town, and makes it look like you're trying to look like town(due to the making light of a situation).
Post by: Peradon on February 21, 2015, 08:41:29 pm
Hehe.... oops. I thought you said townies, not civilians...There were 16 people mentioned in the Day 1 start post and only 12 players. Simple math works wonders.QuoteWe also seem to have four civilians...4maskwolf:Where the heck did you get this? I dont see anywhere that is says this.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on February 21, 2015, 08:46:57 pm
flabort: I suppose in that situation the only thing I can do is lose. Whichever scum team I kill off will just result in a win for the other one, won't it?
Post by: Peradon on February 21, 2015, 08:51:28 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 21, 2015, 08:52:50 pm
Did that happen to anyone else?
Post by: Teneb on February 21, 2015, 08:57:50 pm
Peradon: The entire second sentence in the quote provided was unnecessary, redundant, and fishy: you'd already said how you weren't scum, it wasn't necessary the first time, and generally that kind of thing is frowned on. You're new, so you may not have learned that yet.Why I said "if I was scum" is because I actually got voted on in one of my first games. I pressed Peradon on it because not only they decided to do it twice, it was even in italics to add further emphasis.
Deathsword: seeing as how you said:Either of them, if I was scum and could choose.I'm not sure why you felt it necessary to point out that Peradon did it too. Care to enlighten me
Post by: hector13 on February 21, 2015, 08:59:04 pm
Hector13:Assuming you're town, how would your play differ from when you were mafia in the last BM?
Not sure if it'll be noticeable really, but my questions will be to actually garner information instead of making me look townie. I'll be looking at what the other players posts a bit more intimately to see if I can figure out their motivations, and thus their alignment.
I'll still be treating this as a learning experience too, though, seeing as there are more players, and more players with experience that I can learn from. RVS/RQS is still an area of the game I'm not sure about, so hopefully actually being involved in a game will help me with how to deal with that, as well as improving my analysis skills.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on February 21, 2015, 09:14:15 pm
Uh, because at least his question had something to do with the game. Yours had no relevence at all.So you're fine with jokes as long as they don't reference something you don't immediately understand? Because that's literally the only difference between those questions. Since you're accusing me of trying to deflect attention to someone else, could you tell me what attention I'm trying to deflect and who I'm meant to be deflecting it to? An answer other than 'you tell me' would be appreciated. Why does me making a joke make you think I'm trying to look like town? Would a scum player not make jokes, or do town players just not make jokes without an ulterior motive?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 21, 2015, 09:19:19 pm
Mask, what happened?
Since you don't know, I'll reserve that information until a later date. But, uh... Thank you to whoever did that?
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 21, 2015, 09:42:56 pm
Eheheheh what just happened?
Did that happen to anyone else?
Yep ::) (in a few rounds, actually).
I gained and then lost two copies of Changeling. I also now have Afflicted, Mercenary, Dense, and no more XP.
Post by: notquitethere on February 21, 2015, 09:45:10 pm
Deathsword -
4maskwolf
Peradon [1] - Deathsword
Shakerag
Varee
origamiscienceguy
Flabort
Hector13
Tiruin
TheDarkStar [1] - Hector13
Deus Asmoth [1] - Peradon
Persus13
Hammer at 7 votes. Day ends in something like 93 hours.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 21, 2015, 09:48:05 pm
That's... not actually what happened to me... I just gained changeling once...Eheheheh what just happened?
Did that happen to anyone else?
Yep ::) (in a few rounds, actually).
I gained and then lost two copies of Changeling. I also now have Afflicted, Mercenary, Dense, and no more XP.
That sucks...
Yeah, see, were you a networker per chance?
Post by: Varee on February 21, 2015, 09:59:59 pm
Mask
Quote
Do you enjoy the rolename you were given by NQT?
Not really, I think you can do better than that NQT
DS
Quote
If you had a different alignment, would you have picked different powers?
Maybe, It can be alot of fun if you can coordinate wiht a few people to create a really cool combo.
Hector
Quote
How do you think the booby-trap power will affect your play?
Not really as I feel thoses will be target at more common power.
Flabort[quote]Varee What power do you think went most underused in the past two gamesFor one it protect, most people seem more selfish than helping other, maybe with the new third party wincon this will change. Changeling is also "Underused" It have so much more potential but after what just happen this might change :P
Tell me if I mis anything.....
This seem like a trap ...
Post by: notquitethere on February 21, 2015, 10:07:11 pm
Not really, I think you can do better than that NQT(http://8tracks.imgix.net/i/002/604/799/77b1973d-8976-485e-9a0a-13ef531d72c7_sad_owl-7831.jpg)
...ok
Post by: flabort on February 21, 2015, 11:04:03 pm
Varee, whilst your role-name may not be anything to call home about, I think mine is plenty flavorful. Even if it is just
Deus: I actually had a specific solution in mind to that scenario: Buy a free-kill or otherwise some form of multikill attack, kill both scum teams, and ignore the lynch. ;) My goal in asking this question was to prove that even in the most hopeless situation, you can buy and use these powers to win. Hopefully that situation doesn't come up, nor will there be a situation in which you have already lost but are still in the game, but I'm pretty sure that I've just proved that with enough thought, this setup can be plied to your advantage.
Tiruin What third party wincon would you pick if you had to be third party?
Peradon Interesting. To address your second question first, why wouldn't that question apply to you? It's a typical question of RQS (I've seen it I don't know how many times), and really applies to everyone. Moving on, your choice of Hector doesn't seem odd, but "I don't trust you" followed by "you'd work well as my teammate" followed by "Assuming you're town" all in the same post talking about the same person seems... confusing.
Hector13 What are the signs of buddying? What are the signs of distancing? Do you think anyone has exhibited these signs this early yet?
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 21, 2015, 11:11:00 pm
Just wait until someone targets a kill at the networker. :o
Post by: Shakerag on February 21, 2015, 11:35:27 pm
Shakerag: Ah, you again. Have you read the previous two games?No.
TheDarkStar:
Shakerag: Why are you scum?Because your mom likes the bad boys.
Ugh. Screw weekend starts. I'm going to go drink until I forget that I signed up for this clusterfuck of a game.
Post by: Peradon on February 22, 2015, 12:45:58 am
...Ok, I give you that...Uh, because at least his question had something to do with the game. Yours had no relevence at all.So you're fine with jokes as long as they don't reference something you don't immediately understand? Because that's literally the only difference between those questions. Since you're accusing me of trying to deflect attention to someone else, could you tell me what attention I'm trying to deflect and who I'm meant to be deflecting it to? An answer other than 'you tell me' would be appreciated. Why does me making a joke make you think I'm trying to look like town? Would a scum player not make jokes, or do town players just not make jokes without an ulterior motive?
Unvote
Peradon Interesting. To address your second question first, why wouldn't that question apply to you? It's a typical question of RQS (I've seen it I don't know how many times), and really applies to everyone. Moving on, your choice of Hector doesn't seem odd, but "I don't trust you" followed by "you'd work well as my teammate" followed by "Assuming you're town" all in the same post talking about the same person seems... confusing.Well, I wasnt mafia, but I guess my play will differ in that I will be less trusting. So yeah, it does apply to everyone..
What I was saying was that I will be less likely to trust Hector this round, but I would like him as a teammate(If I'm mafia) because he had great mafia play. The assuming you're town bit was just RQS...
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 22, 2015, 02:36:35 am
origamiscieneguy: Good to see you again. How do you believe your last-day performance in Overlord will affect people's perceptions of you?During that game, I was playing completely by the books. I am trying to find my own way of playing now.
Origami, how do you think your experiences in the Beginner's game will influence your performance in this game?This time, I will try to be more aggressive in my scum reads since last time, being cautious got me lynched.
everyone: How do you think the booby-trap power will affect your play?
Booby-trap will not affect my attacks, unless I know someone has one. For now, I won't care about it since there is a very small chance that it will be an ability I have.
Quote from: Deus Asmoth link=topic=148604.msg6053073#msg6053073
origamiscienceguy, are you an evil Japanese spy here to murder us all?I am not sure what ethnicity I am, but I am not a spy.
Everyone Who would you most want, of the players in this game, to be on a scum team with you and why?Hector13 because we had a very good town synergy in the most recent vengefull mafia game so we would most likely be a good scum team together. We just seem to be compatible.
Post by: flabort on February 22, 2015, 04:11:32 am
Oragami What would be the fastest way for a thief to earn more points, theoretically?
4maskwolf Do you think there is any use to buying the self-upgrade for Changeling? What reason?
TDS What would you be doing right now if you had been the networker? Do you think you got changeling'd after you gained changeling from the networker?
Hector Why do you think multiple people would choose you as their scum partner? Do you believe this will have any effect on the game?
Peradon Which masks would you target with a Santa/Gift style power, if you didn't know anything about them but their color at this point?
Post by: Varee on February 22, 2015, 04:20:40 am
Post by: Varee on February 22, 2015, 04:33:18 am
TDS :Can you share what role/power you have loss?
Peradon/Origami/Deus : We never played in the same game before, which role do you think have the easiest wincon? why?
TDS : If you target a mask an found out that he is a networker, will you share that information?
Shakerag : What power would be the most useful to be distribute via networker?
Post by: flabort on February 22, 2015, 04:58:20 am
Flabort : What do you think is the reason everyone is getting changling power/ do you think this is helpful to a certain side or completely a joke?The only way I can think of for so many people to gain a power at once is someone has networker. The only two ways that this could intentionally happen are if the changeling or networker were on a team, or if the networker used a self-changeling (7 points for networker and 6 for self-changeling is a lot, though). Since the changeling ability distributed did not come with self-, I surmise that it was either an accident or a team working together.
As far as who it would benifit most, anyone who bought flexible can treat it as a free 4 points. It can cause mass confusion among non-insured people, benefiting the scum or third parties; but if said scum/thirds are targeted and un-insured (which if they were planning on this they'd be insured, so I don't think this was planned), then they'd stand to be thrown into even greater turmoil.
But since most townies who weren't already planning on using changeling might have builds they like, I believe most of them, even without flexible, will sell it for 2 or 4 points, and maybe buy a cheap auto or skill with it; or remove a flaw. Since there are more townies (probably) then scum during day 1, this means more points for town, which actually benefits town more.
Overall, while the potential for chaos benefits scum, I think it benefits town more.
I don't think this could be considered a joke, since I don't see any one purposefully doing this, despite the possibility; the harm to scum outweighs the benefits, and there would be proof if someone did it on their own, so it looks like it's accidental and not meant as a joke.
Post by: flabort on February 22, 2015, 05:06:26 am
Also tl;dr: Changeling targeted networker, benefits town more, doesn't look like a laughing matter.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 22, 2015, 08:36:21 am
TDS :Can you share what role/power you have loss?
TDS : If you target a mask an found out that he is a networker, will you share that information?
I wouldn't tell everyone right away, but I'd target the networker to give everyone useful powers.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 22, 2015, 08:37:57 am
TDS What would you be doing right now if you had been the networker? Do you think you got changeling'd after you gained changeling from the networker?
I'd be a new role, I think, because the changelinger became the networker.
I don't think I was changelinged because I have the same flaws and original set of powers.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 22, 2015, 11:07:26 am
4maskwolf Do you think there is any use to buying the self-upgrade for Changeling? What reason?Other than trolling people, none that I can think of off the top of my head. Why, do you have an idea of what you would do with it?
Mask : Are you planing to do something with the power you recieved? why did you thanks whoever did it?Oh heavens no I sold it already. There's no way in hell I'm using it with my current build. But on the other hand, free points, so...
Post by: hector13 on February 22, 2015, 11:24:33 am
Hector13 What are the signs of buddying? What are the signs of distancing? Do you think anyone has exhibited these signs this early yet?
I would rather not say what the signs are (or at least what I think the signs are) as it might give the non-town players ideas of what not to do to avoid my attention to some extent, but given my inexperience, what I think they are is probably wrong anyway.
4mask and TDS may have been trying to distance themselves a bit earlier; 4mask asked a question, TDS appeared to misinterpret it, 4mask voted, TDS said how he misinterpreted, 4mask unvotes.
I don't know enough about the two players playstyles to know for sure though, so... take that with a pinch of salt (or an entire quarry)
Hector Why do you think multiple people would choose you as their scum partner? Do you believe this will have any effect on the game?
Both those players were in the Beginner's game just completed.
I was half the scum team, but it appeared that everyone thought I was the most townie player in it (top of 3 reads lists, two of which were the IC :))))
It won't affect my game so much, but I imagine Peradon and Origami are going to be much more critical of my play in this game. Hopefully this doesn't mean they pay so much attention to me they forget about the other players though. That would be silly. It may also make other players who haven't played with me before a bit more wary of me.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 22, 2015, 12:37:37 pm
Deathsword: Is playing significantly more than I have seen him do in a while, but hasn't contributed anything to sway me either way. Neutral read.
Peradon: I'm getting a bad vibe from him, between the insistence on "I'm town" and the really... bizarre interaction with Deus Asmoth. I'm going to need to look into this further. Slight-moderate scum.
Shakerag: Is Shakerag. Null, because his only post so far is completely useless to get a read on him.
Varee: Hasn't had as much interaction with the other players yet, due to timezone differences, and I can't get a read off what is present. Null read.
origamiscienceguy: Null, has made one post.
flabort: Highly active, but that is typical for him so it means less in terms of getting a read. Still, I can't find any major fault with his play yet, and at least he's trying to move things along. Neutral to slight town.
hector13: Would otherwise be getting a slight townread from me, but... the whole booby-trap discussion at the beginning of the game set off alarm bells for me, particularly given how focused he seemed on that particular power over all others in the game. Neutral read
Tiruin: Has said nothing yet. Null.
TheDarkStar: Hasn't really said much, honestly. Seems to only respond when prodded by someone else, minus his first post of that game. Neutral/slight scum.
Deus Asmoth: Response to Peradon came across as fairly towny, otherwise I don't have much to go on. Slight town.
Persus13: Has yet to grace us with his presense, null.
For anyone who wants it in an order, here it is:
Most Town
Deus Asmoth
flabort
Deathsword/hector13
TheDarkStar
Peradon
Most Scum
No Read
Shakerag
Varee
origamiscienceguy
Tiruin
Persus13
Now, for questions:
Peradon: What's with this whole "I was hoping you would answer that for me" nonsense here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6053533#msg6053533)? What, exactly, do you mean by that?
Shakerag: If you don't like games that seem to be clusterfucks, why did you sign up for this one?
Varee: Despite changeling being perhaps one of the most commonly used powers, you list it as one you believe will be underused. Why?
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 22, 2015, 03:02:36 pm
4maskwolf: very active and spreading his interrogations across everybody.
Deus Asmoth: cautious approach to the questions, but not in a scum make-sure-I-don't-get-anything-wrong way.
Deathsword: In the previous games I've played, he has been somewhat erratic along with generally few posts, he is posting more now though.
Flabort: when he answered questions, he sort of did them in a minimalistic manner, as if to get them over with.
Varee: Answers all the questions he has been given.
Hector13: Has a niche for sounding town, but he fooled us all in the beginners mafia.
Peradon: Uses logical arguments (as logical as they can get during RVS)
TheDarkStar: Interestingly enough, he released his build. Could have lied about it though.
Shakerag: The only answers you gave were not answered thoroughly. You sound like you are giving up on this game before anybody has even voted for you.
Persus13: 0 posts, 0 information.
Tiruin: same.
I always forget someone, who was it this time?
Everybody in your opinion, what is the most powerful power by itself (no combos)
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 22, 2015, 03:05:51 pm
I always forget someone, who was it this time?You got everyone.
Everybody in your opinion, what is the most powerful power by itself (no combos)Hmm... I'm going to say infect, due to basically being a slow multikill.
What's your answer to that question?
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 22, 2015, 03:11:39 pm
Post by: flabort on February 22, 2015, 03:17:55 pm
It also appears that the only person you missed on your list of observations is yourself.
Everybody in your opinion, what is the most powerful power by itself (no combos)Completely on it's own, not counting combos, and since power was specified and not autos, I'd have to pick Vote Steal. You gain a vote, someone you don't/cannot trust more than yourself loses a vote, and it's cheap if you don't try to combo it or protect it in any way; it costs the same as double-voter, and it's the same cost as blackmail, but it has the functionality of both.
The most powerful auto would be Death Resistant. It costs the same as Resurrection, and has the same function (prevent you from dying), but is repeatable. The only advantage Resurrection has over Death Resistant is it's combo potential with other autos that trigger on death.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on February 22, 2015, 04:08:17 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 22, 2015, 05:00:49 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on February 22, 2015, 05:14:28 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 22, 2015, 05:17:14 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 22, 2015, 05:43:15 pm
TheDarkStar: Interestingly enough, he released his build. Could have lied about it though.
I've claimed the things I got, but nothing else.
Post by: hector13 on February 22, 2015, 05:55:51 pm
Had I asked about another specific power, would it receive the same response? If not, why?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 22, 2015, 06:21:42 pm
4mask might I inquire why my question on the booby-trap power garners a scum-read from yourself?You asked about it in your first post of the game, without having mentioned it during signups as a "hey, this may be broken", which wouldn't be so bad except then made it seem like the power was a big deal overpowered ability when I asked you about it. Your question was also about how it would affect our play, which seems oddly specific to ask if you don't have the ability. In theory you could have brought my attention onto you by asking about another power, yes, but the killing powers are the ones that catch my attention the most, followed by what I call the rolefuckery powers (power swap, power steal, curse, and similar).
Had I asked about another specific power, would it receive the same response? If not, why?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 22, 2015, 06:23:46 pm
Post by: hector13 on February 22, 2015, 06:43:50 pm
That's part of the reason I asked about it in my first post. The rest of the reason being RVS is an area of the game I'm hugely uncomfortable with, not knowing what are good questions to ask because of... nothing to really base the questions from. Thus, I thought I would ask about a significant aspect of this game (from my perspective) to see if anyone thought the same.
The overwhelming response appears to be "No, wtf?" though, so perhaps my initial paranoia about it is misplaced.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 22, 2015, 06:50:40 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 22, 2015, 06:51:25 pm
Is Boobytrap an inherently anti-town power?
EBWOP:
Should town ever use it, considering that it's far more likely that it will kill someone in the town?
Post by: Deus Asmoth on February 22, 2015, 06:57:03 pm
Post by: hector13 on February 22, 2015, 06:58:16 pm
Doesn't mean people haven't taken it though, and it doesn't mean the town haven't all decided to create a Liberal Vigilante Squad.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 22, 2015, 07:02:21 pm
Is Boobytrap an inherently anti-town power?Meh?
Should town ever use it, considering that it's far more likely that it will kill someone in the town?
I'm rather ambivalent about the issue, to be honest. If the self auto didn't exist, then no, it would absolutely not be anti-town. Scum teams tend to work together to synergize their powers, leading to things like bless, santa, and cleanse targeting the scumteam. However, it is just as likely, with the self auto in place, to nuke a townie who was trying to build themselves up. And the obvious scum powers, like gossip (which no townie should take outside of some batshit insane gambit, because the only possible town use for it I asked NQT about and it was shot down), are too weak to actually be used by the scumteam under normal conditions.
Is that an open question? Because from what I can see, booby trapping kill powers would be helpful from the town since there's a pretty good chance that a scum player would use one of them.My experience in the game has lead me to see that more players tend to take kill as town than as scum, since we always seem to have at least one or two vigilantes from the start of the game. Which, just FYI, is a horrible build in this setup, particularly with the masquerade aspect.
I wouldn't say it's inherently anti-town, but it's a risky one to use as town, given the lack of information on what the other players have as powers.Hehehe Liberal Vigilante Squad. I'm going to make LVS Mafia now (not liberal crime squad, liberal vigilante squad).
Doesn't mean people haven't taken it though, and it doesn't mean the town haven't all decided to create a Liberal Vigilante Squad.
On a more serious note, isn't any offensive or support build risky as town? You could always aid a scum or screw a townie, after all. It's a matter of personal preference about acceptable risk.
Post by: notquitethere on February 22, 2015, 07:14:22 pm
"Wh-what's the hurry?"
Deathsword -
4maskwolf
Peradon [2] - Deathsword, 4maskwolf
Shakerag
Varee
origamiscienceguy
Flabort
Hector13
Tiruin
TheDarkStar [1] - Hector13
Deus Asmoth
Persus13
Hammer at 7 votes. Day ends in something like 72 hours. Any kills will be processed in about 24 hours time.
Post by: Varee on February 22, 2015, 08:16:20 pm
Quote
Despite changeling being perhaps one of the most commonly used powers, you list it as one you believe will be underused. Why?As I already say, Changeling is one of those power people onyl use once, the target of a changeling is normally too afaird or too screw to use it again. I think it is underuse in term of it have potential to be use much more often than it have been.
Origami :
Quote
in your opinion, what is the most powerful power by itselfI beleieve GrandSwap is priced fairly as it pretty much screw up everyone....
Now for my case .... I do this everytime and got shut down almost everytime but I still think it is a good idea.
I think we shouldnt lynch anyone. As we have seen, by having more town than scum, the town is getting more powerful faster and by lynching someone it is garantee killing. Even the scum kill is not granatee to kill someone, assuming there 3 scum, the kill is only 60-70% a kill as there 4 random mask out there. So a scum kill is not as powerful as it sound. True that infection might create a big chain reaction but still it is not a garantee kill. By lynching a name, it is a garantee that someone will die and it is likely that this will benefit the scum more than the town. With the mask system in place, it is hard to target a certain people with a power. Also there might be doctor or other thrid party out there that is trying to help people/ protect people.
On the other note, with the handing out of power, people with flexible can by a free self clense/protect tmr and it might be useful to use the free point to protect yourself.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 22, 2015, 08:24:07 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 22, 2015, 08:34:24 pm
It buys the scum time too.
You see, that gives the scum time to use information-gathering powers to figure out the town's strengths and weaknesses, then eliminate town players one by one.
I'd rather take out the scum quickly, put pressure on them, make them panic. Because as long as the town lies dormant, the scum will lie dormant too, picking us off when they are sure to get away with it. I'd personally much rather put pressure on them, force them to act, than sit back and do nothing.
I may also be biased because my role isn't built to become stronger, but whatevs.
NQT: I can't believe I didn't think to ask you yet, but is there one scumteam or two? That could make a huge difference in the game.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 22, 2015, 08:46:14 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 22, 2015, 08:49:09 pm
But, waiting gives the town more time to use information-gathering too.But each of us only has what powers we can scrounge. The scumteam has as many players as they have to share information amongst. And if we share information publically, we might as well just declare our masks, powers, etc right now because that's what it will amount to.
Again, I'm probably biased because my build is basically locked right now and would be exactly not helpful at all in that situation.
Post by: Peradon on February 22, 2015, 08:51:47 pm
Peradon: What's with this whole "I was hoping you would answer that for me" nonsense here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6053533#msg6053533)? What, exactly, do you mean by that?Well, the question was partial RQS and partial serious. I dont like it when people ask joke questions, and I thought it might be that he was trying to divert attention from him by making jokes. So, I pressured him slightly, hoping to come up with why he was trying to divert attention. I backed off because I realised I did the exact same thing in my BM, and I was town. So, it really didnt add up to anything.
Quote
Peradon/Origami/Deus : We never played in the same game before, which role do you think have the easiest wincon? why?Probably philanthropist. Really easy to give things to people, and other people wont care if you win and thus wont try to stop. If you play it well, you could win in 4 days.
Quote
Peradon Which masks would you target with a Santa/Gift style power, if you didn't know anything about them but their color at this point?Well, I would wait until I knew something about who'd behind the masks, but assuming I dont have any info on them, I would pick a random person and see if they post about it.
Quote
Everybody in your opinion, what is the most powerful power by itself (no combos)Probably grand swap. Used at the right time, it can make people have to rethink who to target.
If I missed anyone's questions, sorry. Let me know, and I'll answer them.
I'll give my reads for some people for now.
4maskwolf:Very active, which is good. Town for now.
Hector: I think he's town right now. He's asking and answering more substantially than he was in the BM, which is pro-town.
Deus Asmoth: He isnt posting many questions. But his answer to my question about the Origami-Japaneese-Spy question was thought through, so a slight town-null read.
Origami:Not posting much. Null read for now.
I dont think I can get a read on much other people right now.
Everyone:What do you think is the most usefull power?
Also, Ninja'd, so...
No-lynch is bad. It's better to take a chance and try to kill a mafia then to not lynch. Like people said, it gives scum more time to look like town, thus making towns job harder.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 22, 2015, 08:59:41 pm
Everyone:What do you think is the most usefull power?
Obviously, this would depend on what kind of person you are playing. For example, a vigilante might enjoy poison while a coward would think that hide or even a self pardon would be good.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 22, 2015, 09:00:49 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 22, 2015, 09:02:22 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 22, 2015, 09:03:55 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 22, 2015, 09:11:12 pm
Also, what would you say is the best kind of town player then?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 22, 2015, 09:17:43 pm
Shakerag, varee, 4maskwolf: I haven't seen you play before, how many games have you all played?
Oh geez... now I have to look up the exact number.
16 I completed or played long enough prior to replacing out that I had a more-than-nominal impact on the game. Interestingly, I've only won 5 of those games, and three of those were my first three games on the forum (it all went downhill from there).
No wait, 17, KYOSN ended.
Hm. Well, I wasnt saying just one style. Lets just say generally town.Every power in the game can be used by both town and scum with equal effectiveness or by scum with more effect than town, simply due to the fact that the scum can work together. With that said, I think peek is an underrated power for any build, because it can allow you to be more selective with your power usage.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 22, 2015, 09:22:19 pm
Post by: Varee on February 22, 2015, 09:22:58 pm
Origami :
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Pera :most useful power? I would say fortune teller as I give a ton of info/
Post by: Varee on February 22, 2015, 09:23:53 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 22, 2015, 09:35:50 pm
OSG, why do keep dodging the question? "It depends" is a meaningless phrase and avoids telling the town anything useful.
I am unable to answer the question because there is no one right answer. All powers are useful in different ways, and in certain circumstances, one power will be the most useful while in other situations, another power will be most useful.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 22, 2015, 09:39:29 pm
OSG, why do keep dodging the question? "It depends" is a meaningless phrase and avoids telling the town anything useful.I know this isn't directed towards me, but...
Are you really saying you think there is one universally good power for the town to take? Like, really? In this game, with all it's possible combinations?
It depends is only bad when there is a way to give an actual answer, but there ISN'T. I just gave one because I happen to like the power and think it needs to, you know, actually see play.
You, sir, are honest-to-goodness the lazziest scum I have ever met. Every part of that vote smacks of jumping on an easy attack, and the fact that you've made a lot of posts without anything major in them speaks of active-lurking.
TDS
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 22, 2015, 10:19:11 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 22, 2015, 10:29:00 pm
4mask: You're overreacting a lot. Why are you so worried about OSG? How am I lazy? Why do you expect people to have major posts in the first 5-6 pages of the game?
OSG: There might be multiple right answers, but you gave no answer. That's not beneficial to anyone and stop any kind of information being transferred to the town. Now, which specific power do you think is best/most effective? Other people had no trouble answering this (like 4mask and Varee).
PPE: OSG: I have to go with Fortune Teller because it gives a partial list of powers to worry about.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 22, 2015, 10:40:47 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 22, 2015, 10:41:40 pm
Everyone:What do you think is the most usefull power?
Obviously, this would depend on what kind of person you are playing. For example, a vigilante might enjoy poison while a coward would think that hide or even a self pardon would be good.
I did give some examples right here.
Here are some more:
Serial Killer: Infect
Doctor: Innate-preotect
Thief: Scan and Sap
Philantrhropist: innate-bless
Trickster: Gossip
Necromancer: innate-raise zombie
Mafia: booby trap
[/quote]
Post by: Peradon on February 22, 2015, 10:44:09 pm
Post by: flabort on February 22, 2015, 10:51:00 pm
assuming there 3 scum,This is a dangerous assumption to make, especially if there is no indication how many there are yet. It's especially dangerous given this information:
Two Mafias/Choose-Your-Own-Third-Party Numbers permitting, there will be either two mafia teams, third parties, or (most likely) both.If there is indeed two mafias, then the assumption you're making is that there is one team of 1 and one of 2.
It would also assume that none of the third-parties count as scum; out of six possible third parties, only one could be considered benign to town (philanthropist), so the other 5 are essentially scum. If there are third parties like advertised, then it's unlikely to be just 3 scum.
There might be multiple right answers, but you gave no answer.But the question you asked, below, includes the words "the" and "most", implying that there only is one answer, not multiple right answers.
Very well then, how about the most useful town power?Furthermore, he did answer. Paraphrasing, he said "This is a trick question, so the answer is all of them". Which is an answer, it's just not one you liked. Which makes your entire statement false.
TheDarkStar, I don't like the narrow mindedness that you're exhibiting here.
That's not beneficial to anyone and stop any kind of information being transferred to the town.This, at least, is more true. However, he was simply answering to the best of his ability, and really the answer didn't stop anyone else from answering your question. The fact that you're hung up on it is what's stopping the flow of information.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 22, 2015, 10:53:35 pm
4mask: You're overreacting a lot. Why are you so worried about OSG? How am I lazy? Why do you expect people to have major posts in the first 5-6 pages of the game?I'm not worried about OSG, you greatly misunderstand me. I'm worried about you getting away with laziness. If I were worried about OSG my vote would have stayed planted right where it was: better to have a majority on someone else than to spread out the votes and make it easier for him to be lynched.
What you just did is a lazy: you attacked someone because... reasons? They answered a question in a way that was, at least from my perspective, logical and reasonable, and you voted them because they didn't give a specific answer to a question that, from a logical standpoint, has NO actual answer, because everyone can build themselves differently and different powers have different utilities.
I don't expect you to have a lot of major things, but the way you're playing strikes me as incredibly activelurkerish. Great, now I have to do a post breakdown. Gimme about five hours...
First Post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6053047#msg6053047). Fairly standard start of game post, answers some questions and asks some, nothing really to see here.
Answers a question I asked him, but misunderstands my meaning. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6053130#msg6053130)
Response (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6053178#msg6053178)
Response (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6053320#msg6053320)
Talking about what happened to him (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6053718#msg6053718)
STILL RESPONDING TO QUESTIONS AND NOTHING ELSE (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6053869#msg6053869)
Still a response (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6054499#msg6054499)
Answering a missed question (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6054502#msg6054502)
I'll cut it here because this is when I first call you on the activelurking bullcrap in my reads list.
So, that makes 8 posts, only one of which in any way tries to suss out anything from anyone, and you never try to follow up on any questions you asked, most of which were game related.
I don't expect people to have major posts, but given the fact that your first important question came 10 of your posts in and even then it comes across as highly reactive given the context, I'm inclined to think you the scummiest of the people here. Your response to me voting you (the not-quite-OMGUS followed by saying someone is overreacting) is classic scum behavior: if you think I'm overreacting, why not vote me to apply pressure?
4 PPE WTF:
Actually flabort, I'd say doctor is fairly neutral, what with wanting to keep people alive no matter who they are.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 22, 2015, 10:55:53 pm
NQT: I can confirm that nothing was deleted or modified, merely added, although he should probably be given permission to edit out his accidental introduction to that particular post.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 22, 2015, 11:00:22 pm
Post by: Varee on February 22, 2015, 11:01:31 pm
Quote
out of six possible third parties, only one could be considered benign to town (philanthropist)Why would doctor not be a town? And necromancer could possibly help town creating the larger patsy to town ratio.
Also from
Quote
If you're third-party, congratulations! Pick one of the following wincons:I think thrid party get to pick their wincon so It is possible that they will be siding with town
Post by: Persus13 on February 22, 2015, 11:02:34 pm
I'm busy, so this will be my only post in this until tomorrow sometime.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 22, 2015, 11:04:25 pm
Post by: Varee on February 22, 2015, 11:04:58 pm
No lynch D1 is not a good idea. It gives town no information to work with without any benefit to town.While that is true in a normal game, Town have plenty of opputunity to gain information via other method in this CYOM setting.
I'm busy, so this will be my only post in this until tomorrow sometime.
Post by: Peradon on February 22, 2015, 11:31:32 pm
I think until day 2, we need to treat this like a normal game. We dont know what other people have chosen, so we can't assume anything. When we start getting some public actions in, we can start making some more decisions.No lynch D1 is not a good idea. It gives town no information to work with without any benefit to town.While that is true in a normal game, Town have plenty of opputunity to gain information via other method in this CYOM setting.
I'm busy, so this will be my only post in this until tomorrow sometime.
Post by: flabort on February 22, 2015, 11:44:59 pm
I agree with this.snipI think until day 2, we need to treat this like a normal game. We dont know what other people have chosen, so we can't assume anything. When we start getting some public actions in, we can start making some more decisions.
Post by: Varee on February 23, 2015, 12:01:31 am
Post by: Peradon on February 23, 2015, 12:20:42 am
Post by: flabort on February 23, 2015, 12:28:16 am
Why day 2 ? There nothing like a night in this game? Most action might already have been completed as far as I know(bar the kills ofcourse). So what would be the benefit of waiting till day 2 ?It's all there in the OP, Varee. It's deep south, so the night may as well be instantaneous because it doesn't exist.
The only reason day 2 start matters is because there are queued actions that will all take place then.
I guess that the time when the kills are processed there will be a surge of new information, but the day 2 start will be a fresh chance for actions.
Post by: Tiruin on February 23, 2015, 03:01:49 am
Tiruin: You have, in the past, been both a doctor and a vigilante in this game. Which one did you find more interesting/enjoyable to play?Actually I find the whole LIST very interesting and enjoyable. I relate my answer to an RPG where you create your own character to a standard skill set and a point pool.
There's a TON of potential and abilities, though I usually have a pattern in my playstyle of interacting powers--see before, my Vig-game had supporting powers and my Doc-game had also supporting powers to it; I find either very interesting to play
Excuse the strikethrough. That's me being silly.
Also nice to see you back playing!
Tiruin: What kind of cooperation would be effective between town members with different sets of roles?Err, do you mean communication pre-game, or post-claim?
I don't think one can PM another here...other than the mason-ish power there.
However the cooperation I think to..see(?) would generally be like all games before; suspension of judgement and coordinated analysis.
Everyone Who would you most want, of the players in this game, to be on a scum team with you and why?...Scum team 'with you'? Err. . .
*checks*
There's no Caz. :c
I'm...impartial, actually. I see potential in everyone generally, and everyone is awesome in their own special way.
If I was forced to pick--it'd be Shakerag because I like him despite him being grumpy and a bit pessimistic about the world at large.
...With totally no relation to the game whatsoever. Y'all are agreeable folks.
I'm totally scum :DEveryone Who would you most want, of the players in this game, to be on a scum team with you and why?Tiruin is often overlooked as scum for some reason, probably how friendly she tends to be. Shakerag is probably one of the most experienced players around. Either of them, if I was scum and could choose.
(Nah, there are very certain tells I make when I'm scum...the thing is locking them out and finding it. I'm friendly either way if town or scum!)
...Cutting it off here at the moment. Class calls x_x
Post by: notquitethere on February 23, 2015, 05:44:20 am
"That's exactly what a malificant would say!" cries the chorus.
"Uh, actually, don't they more say things like, 'by the bones of thy father I curse thee unto death'?"
"Well, traditionally..."
Deathsword -
4maskwolf
Peradon [1] - Deathsword
Shakerag
Varee
origamiscienceguy [1] - TheDarkStar
Flabort
Hector13
Tiruin
TheDarkStar [2] - Hector13, 4maskwolf
Deus Asmoth
Persus13
No Lynch
Hammer at 7 votes. Day ends in something like 60 hours. Any kills will be processed in a little under 14 hours time. You can hammer the 'no lynch' if you really want.
List of Active Masks
Red, Green, Bronze, White, Gold, Silver, Blue, Orange, Brown, Cream, Purple, Pink, Turquoise, Yellow, Black, Violet
origamiscienceguy
Gosh dangit, I didn't realize I clicked modify instead of quote.Well, try not to do it again. Go ahead and put the post back to how it was. If you can't remember, then just leave it.
4maskwolf
NQT: I can't believe I didn't think to ask you yet, but is there one scumteam or two? That could make a huge difference in the game.I've decided that that's not public information.
NQT: I can confirm that nothing was deleted or modified, merely added, although he should probably be given permission to edit out his accidental introduction to that particular post.Thanks for vouching.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 23, 2015, 09:02:57 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2015, 10:02:31 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2015, 10:05:46 am
Wait, hector13 is voting TDS?So it is, so it is. I didn't read the last votecount properly.
Where's flabort's vote?
4maskwolfYOU BASTARD MOD :PNQT: I can't believe I didn't think to ask you yet, but is there one scumteam or two? That could make a huge difference in the game.I've decided that that's not public information.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2015, 10:14:58 am
Post by: Shakerag on February 23, 2015, 11:39:30 am
Does the flavor imply actual in-game information? As in, can you confirm that the flavor confirms that there is at least one third-party role in the game?
Also, it doesn't state as much in the rules, but do scumteam members know each other's mask colors?
flabort:
Shakerag Who would be an ideal scum partner for you? What is your favorite scent of color?Who would be an ideal scum partner? Someone who is never suspected as scum, I guess.
I'll go with Kahlua brown as favorite scent of color.
Varee:
Shakerag : What power would be the most useful to be distribute via networker?I'll go with pardon, because you can sell it off for 5 or 10 points, and who doesn't love more points?
4maskwolf:
Shakerag: If you don't like games that seem to be clusterfucks, why did you sign up for this one?Because I'm a masochist, obviously.
origamiscienceguy:
Shakerag, varee, 4maskwolf: I haven't seen you play before, how many games have you all played?A few. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136990.msg5764101#msg5764101)
Make sure you give NQT your actions before the deaths begin.Deaths? Do you have some information about deaths that are going to happen?
Peradon:
Very well then, how about the most usefull town power?Jee-zus, Peradon, are your scumbuddies so bad that you have to ask everyone else how to come across as town?
Tiruin:
If I was forced to pick--it'd be Shakerag because I like him despite him being grumpy and a bit pessimistic about the world at large.<insert tsundere response here>
Post by: Peradon on February 23, 2015, 11:45:55 am
Peradon:I'm fairly certain I wasnt asking how to act like town. How did you even get this from my post?Very well then, how about the most usefull town power?Jee-zus, Peradon, are your scumbuddies so bad that you have to ask everyone else how to come across as town?
Post by: notquitethere on February 23, 2015, 12:01:32 pm
I communicate to scum almost exclusively through quicktopic, so starting mask colours and action results are common knowledge for scum team members. The only exceptions are Death PMs and invitations to join a private chat.
Post by: Varee on February 23, 2015, 12:08:00 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 23, 2015, 12:44:08 pm
Shakerag, how the heck could you misunderstand both me and origami? Did you even read the context of either of those quotes, or are you simply trying to start a wagon?
Ok, I'm going to go analyse your posts now...
Spoiler: Shakerag Post Analysis (click to show/hide)
FoS on Shakerag for now.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2015, 12:52:42 pm
I'm not sure if you got the whole post analysis thing from me, but if you did, that's... not exactly how I use it. I find post analysis to be good for pointing out trends in behavior and whatnot, and Shakerag doesn't have enough posts for it to be considered a trend. Particularly since his first post was him bitching about the game, there really isn't enough evidence either way. That said, if you did get it from me, I'm glad you consider my technique worth using as a model.
Shakerag... tends to play like that, I guess. I've only played a couple of games with him, though, so take that with a grain of salt.
Post by: notquitethere on February 23, 2015, 01:04:04 pm
Nqt:If there is third party, that mean there only one scum team right?That would be a faulty inference to make.
Post by: Peradon on February 23, 2015, 01:05:30 pm
Erm, Peradon?Oh.... Ok then...
I'm not sure if you got the whole post analysis thing from me, but if you did, that's... not exactly how I use it. I find post analysis to be good for pointing out trends in behavior and whatnot, and Shakerag doesn't have enough posts for it to be considered a trend. Particularly since his first post was him bitching about the game, there really isn't enough evidence either way. That said, if you did get it from me, I'm glad you consider my technique worth using as a model.
Shakerag... tends to play like that, I guess. I've only played a couple of games with him, though, so take that with a grain of salt.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 23, 2015, 04:53:02 pm
Make sure you give NQT your actions before the deaths begin.Deaths? Do you have some information about deaths that are going to happen?
I do not know if any deaths will happen. I wanted to make sure he had a chance to do his actions before the 24 hour grace period was up.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 23, 2015, 05:01:52 pm
Post by: Shakerag on February 23, 2015, 05:10:59 pm
I really cant compair your posts to ones in other games because I havent been in any with you, but I would like to ask other people if this is a typical post for him?First off, don't rely on meta. I intentionally screw with my meta if I see people trying to do this.
Secondly, are you going to rely on everyone else to play this game for you?
"What do you think is the most usefull power?"
"Very well then, how about the most usefull town power?"
"Also, what would you say is the best kind of town player then?"
I'm possibly willing to conclude that you're not dumbscum trying to figure out how to pass off as town, as you'd likely be asking these kinds of questions to your scumbuddies. Unless, of course, they're all dumb as a box of rocks.
However, you could be a third-party with no partners to glean info from, so you could still be trying to figure out how to blend in with the townies.
What I think is even more likely is that you're trying to figure out what sorts of ways to best screw over town powers by something like inflate, boobytrap, recall, etc.
And, seriously, a post-analysis? Are you always this defensive and panicky when someone votes you?
At best you're coming across as clueless town. At worst you're scum trying to hinder town powers/playstyles. Go hang.
TheDarkStar:
OSG: There might be multiple right answers, but you gave no answer. That's not beneficial to anyone and stop any kind of information being transferred to the town. Now, which specific power do you think is best/most effective? Other people had no trouble answering this (like 4mask and Varee).Thank you, TheDarkStar, for calling OSG on his obvious scummy bullshit. Because he's not answering a random RVS question about what the best town powers are ... I just feel so in the dark now. Please keep up the pressure so that we townies can keep fighting the good fight once we have this critical intel.
4maskwolf:
Active lurking? This early? Really? >_>
origamiscienceguy:
I do not know if any deaths will happen. I wanted to make sure he had a chance to do his actions before the 24 hour grace period was up.Refresh my memory. Who is doing what actions, and why are you concerned about it?
Post by: Peradon on February 23, 2015, 05:36:16 pm
Peradon:I'm not relying on meta, but using isnt bad either. I'm also not relying on other people to play, just asking whether your minimal posts were like you. I dont like minimal posts. They give nothing.I really cant compair your posts to ones in other games because I havent been in any with you, but I would like to ask other people if this is a typical post for him?First off, don't rely on meta. I intentionally screw with my meta if I see people trying to do this.
Secondly, are you going to rely on everyone else to play this game for you?
"What do you think is the most usefull power?"Did you even read the responses? You clearly arent, because you would have seen that I was trying to clarify what I was asking.
"Very well then, how about the most usefull town power?"
"Also, what would you say is the best kind of town player then?"
I'm possibly willing to conclude that you're not dumbscum trying to figure out how to pass off as town, as you'd likely be asking these kinds of questions to your scumbuddies. Unless, of course, they're all dumb as a box of rocks.
I was asking it due to the nature of RQS. It was random, and had nothing to do with my alignment.
And, seriously, a post-analysis? Are you always this defensive and panicky when someone votes you?I think its good to always look back on what someone has posted when they come up on your radar. So yeah, I am.
...I just feel so in the dark now. Please keep up the pressure so that we townies can keep fighting the good fight once we have this critical intel.Oh gosh, this is so blatant buddying, I'm shocked. I mean really? At this point, you're either pulling a noob mistake, or you just made a scum slip. You arent a noob. Vote Shakerag.
4maskwolf:Please give examples of his active lurking, I dont see it.
Active lurking? This early? Really? >_>
I didn't ask who was the best town, I asked what type was the best. In context with what was going on at the time, it makes sense. You werent understanding my question, and I had to restate it in 2 or 3 different ways. That was one of the ways I restated it.
Peradon, he thought you were trying to act town because you basically asked who was the best at acting town. He thought that you would be trying to mimic their play and seem townier. (I think?) I don't find that incriminating because you could very well be town just trying not to appear scum.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 23, 2015, 05:44:10 pm
TheDarkStar:OSG: There might be multiple right answers, but you gave no answer. That's not beneficial to anyone and stop any kind of information being transferred to the town. Now, which specific power do you think is best/most effective? Other people had no trouble answering this (like 4mask and Varee).Thank you, TheDarkStar, for calling OSG on his obvious scummy bullshit. Because he's not answering a random RVS question about what the best town powers are ... I just feel so in the dark now. Please keep up the pressure so that we townies can keep fighting the good fight once we have this critical intel.
This is sarcasm. Right? I am terrible at seeing sarcasm in posts.
origamiscienceguy:I was referring to persus13's first and only post of the entire game:I do not know if any deaths will happen. I wanted to make sure he had a chance to do his actions before the 24 hour grace period was up.Refresh my memory. Who is doing what actions, and why are you concerned about it?
No lynch D1 is not a good idea. It gives town no information to work with without any benefit to town.I wanted to make sure he got his actions in.
I'm busy, so this will be my only post in this until tomorrow sometime.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 23, 2015, 05:47:13 pm
...I just feel so in the dark now. Please keep up the pressure so that we townies can keep fighting the good fight once we have this critical intel.Oh gosh, this is so blatant buddying, I'm shocked. I mean really? At this point, you're either pulling a noob mistake, or you just made a scum slip. You arent a noob. Vote Shakerag.
I am not sure, but I think his whole post was sarcasm.
Post by: Shakerag on February 23, 2015, 06:29:42 pm
I'm not relying on meta, but using isnt bad either. I'm also not relying on other people to play, just asking whether your minimal posts were like you. I dont like minimal posts. They give nothing.My advice is to not rely on meta, but that's up to you.
And my post size will vary wildly depending on how busy I am IRL. I do try to make at least one substantial post per weekday
Quote
Did you even read the responses? You clearly arent, because you would have seen that I was trying to clarify what I was asking.I did read the responses. And, yes, you may very well have been trying to clarify. I don't see how that invalidates my suspicion of what you wanted that information for.
Quote
I think its good to always look back on what someone has posted when they come up on your radar. So yeah, I am.Looking back is one thing, trying to do an in-depth analysis this early is another ...
Quote
Oh gosh, this is so blatant buddying, I'm shocked. I mean really? At this point, you're either pulling a noob mistake, or you just made a scum slip. You arent a noob. Vote Shakerag.Feels like an OMGUS, but I'm willing to chalk this one up to you having no idea how sarcasm works.
Quote
Please give examples of his active lurking, I dont see it.Speaking of not reading ... I wasn't accusing 4mask of active lurking, numbnuts; I was questioning him accusing TDS of active lurking.
Keep flailing; it makes the noose squeeze more tightly.
origamiscienceguy:
This is sarcasm. Right? I am terrible at seeing sarcasm in posts.Yes. It was sarcasm. You seem to have a better ability to spot it than our friend Peradon over there.
Quote
I wanted to make sure he got his actions in.And you care that he got his actions in ... why?
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 23, 2015, 06:40:27 pm
origamiscienceguy:This is sarcasm. Right? I am terrible at seeing sarcasm in posts.Yes. It was sarcasm. You seem to have a better ability to spot it than our friend Peradon over there.QuoteI wanted to make sure he got his actions in.And you care that he got his actions in ... why?
I am sure that nobody, Persus13 included, would enjoy being killed before they got to do anything. He said he would be back today sometime, which could be after the grace period ended.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 23, 2015, 06:43:51 pm
If so, then that's amazing.
Post by: notquitethere on February 23, 2015, 06:58:06 pm
Anyway, for whatever reason, he dropped down dead midway through the initial discussions of suspects.
"Aha!" cried one of the monks. "We have us a suspect. He carried malicious runes and everything!"
True enough, the pixie had some incriminating powers at his disposal. Nothing illegal, but certainly suspect.
"Oh wait," said one the initiates, "he was attending on the Doge these last two seasons so it can't have been him."
Well. So much for that.
Deathsword is dead. He was town.
Spoiler: Deathsword (click to show/hide)
4maskwolf
Peradon [1] - Shakerag
Shakerag [1] - Peradon
Varee
origamiscienceguy [1] - TheDarkStar
Flabort
Hector13
Tiruin
TheDarkStar [2] - Hector13, 4maskwolf
Deus Asmoth
Persus13
No Lynch
Hammer is now 6 votes. Day ends in 48 hours.
List of Active Masks
Red, Green, Bronze, White, Gold, Silver, Blue, Orange, Brown, Cream, Purple, Turquoise, Yellow, Black, Violet
List of Dead Masks
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
Post by: Teneb on February 23, 2015, 07:04:14 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 23, 2015, 07:23:03 pm
Deathsword: You're scum again, aren't you?I know that this is WIFOM, but I think that it is possible that someone wanted 4maskwolf framed because of this statement he made at the very beginning. Since the death happened exactly as the grace period ended, they probably queued it up early on. Now the question is who would want 4mask gone?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2015, 07:33:00 pm
Or, you know, they targeted a random mask and it just happened to be Deathsword. That theory of yours only works if targeting was as usual. While there is the possibility that they peeked and found him, it seems unlikely. The answer to your question is "anyone not on the same team as him".Deathsword: You're scum again, aren't you?I know that this is WIFOM, but I think that it is possible that someone wanted 4maskwolf framed because of this statement he made at the very beginning. Since the death happened exactly as the grace period ended, they probably queued it up early on. Now the question is who would want 4mask gone?
Shakerag: I call it like I see it. When someone makes seven posts in a row that do nothing to further the game, with their only useful post being their first, it certainly perks up my ears.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2015, 07:36:16 pm
Post by: notquitethere on February 23, 2015, 07:48:54 pm
Vote counting is hard.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on February 23, 2015, 07:53:26 pm
That seemed a bit overly complicated, considering they'd have to find out which mask is Deathsword's first by targetting random masks and then kill him. It seems more likely to me that it was just a random shot.Deathsword: You're scum again, aren't you?I know that this is WIFOM, but I think that it is possible that someone wanted 4maskwolf framed because of this statement he made at the very beginning. Since the death happened exactly as the grace period ended, they probably queued it up early on. Now the question is who would want 4mask gone?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2015, 07:55:20 pm
flabort: Since you're consistently not showing up in the votecount, are you Unable to Vote?
Everyone else: Is there anything else that bears sharing: specifically, are you Unable to Vote, because it's pretty important for the town to know that.
Post by: Varee on February 23, 2015, 07:58:22 pm
Everyone else: Is there anything else that bears sharing: specifically, are you Unable to Vote, because it's pretty important for the town to know that.
Well like I said, I don't think lynching someone really help the town so ,No lynch
Post by: Peradon on February 23, 2015, 08:04:27 pm
Shakerag: First off, I dont think sarcasm should ever be used in mafia. I analyse a post, assuming you mean every word you say. Sarcasm misleads the town and does nothing but muddy the water. From the way you act, you still seem like scum, so my vote stays right where it is. From now on, if you dont want me to vote for you, dont be sarcastic.
Mask: Nope, I'm able to vote, and I dont think I want to share any other weakness I have yet.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 23, 2015, 08:08:18 pm
I want to join you, but It didn't go so well the last time I did. But, so people can know my opinion, I think that TheDarkStar has been acting the most suspicious thus far.
Everyone else: Is there anything else that bears sharing: specifically, are you Unable to Vote, because it's pretty important for the town to know that.
Well like I said, I don't think lynching someone really help the town so ,No lynch
Post by: Peradon on February 23, 2015, 08:09:18 pm
Post by: Varee on February 23, 2015, 08:15:37 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 23, 2015, 08:22:05 pm
He voted for me for "dodging" the questionEveryone:What do you think is the most usefull power?
Obviously, this would depend on what kind of person you are playing. For example, a vigilante might enjoy poison while a coward would think that hide or even a self pardon would be good.
OSG, why do keep dodging the question? "It depends" is a meaningless phrase and avoids telling the town anything useful.He even called 4maskwolf "overreacting" when he called TDS on it:
He actually qualifies 4mask's accusation of his laziness by saying this:4mask: You're overreacting a lot. Why are you so worried about OSG? How am I lazy? Why do you expect people to have major posts in the first 5-6 pages of the game?OSG, why do keep dodging the question? "It depends" is a meaningless phrase and avoids telling the town anything useful.I know this isn't directed towards me, but...
Are you really saying you think there is one universally good power for the town to take? Like, really? In this game, with all it's possible combinations?
It depends is only bad when there is a way to give an actual answer, but there ISN'T. I just gave one because I happen to like the power and think it needs to, you know, actually see play.
You, sir, are honest-to-goodness the lazziest scum I have ever met. Every part of that vote smacks of jumping on an easy attack, and the fact that you've made a lot of posts without anything major in them speaks of active-lurking.
TDS
Why do you expect people to have major posts in the first 5-6 pages of the game?By this time, people should have something at least, and all TDS has done was attack me for a completely illegitimate reason.
I know that there have been other people who have failed to contribute much to this game so far (Shakerag, Persus13, Turian) But, TDS attacked me as if just to say that he contributed something, even if it had no concrete reasoning. Seems like active lurking to me.
Post by: flabort on February 23, 2015, 08:29:16 pm
flabort: Since you're consistently not showing up in the votecount, are you Unable to Vote?Yeah. I would think my name would show up, but the count would just fail to be incremented (3 names, "[2]" votes), but I guess that's not the case.
Fair notice, I will be able to day 2, thanks to powers like self-cleanse. But today I can't vote.
I also have to say that it seems absurd. First they'd have to know which mask(s) Deathsword (and 4mask) are, and then they'd have to plan on framing someone; why wouldn't they just kill 4mask if they wanted him dead, anyways? If they spent the effort to find out which mask Deathsword is, then surely during the process they'd have an equal chance of finding 4mask.That seemed a bit overly complicated, considering they'd have to find out which mask is Deathsword's first by targetting random masks and then kill him. It seems more likely to me that it was just a random shot.Deathsword: You're scum again, aren't you?I know that this is WIFOM, but I think that it is possible that someone wanted 4maskwolf framed because of this statement he made at the very beginning. Since the death happened exactly as the grace period ended, they probably queued it up early on. Now the question is who would want 4mask gone?
Sarcasm misleads the town and does nothing but muddy the water.Yeah, [sarcasm]it's not like there's such a thing as fake BBC tags that indicate when you're being sarcastic[/sarcasm]. Without any indication that you're being sarcastic, Shakerag, we're going to take your words for your honest opinion.
I know that there have been other people who have failed to contribute much to this game so far (Shakerag, Persus13, Turian) But, TDS attacked me as if just to say that he contributed something, even if it had no concrete reasoning. Seems like active lurking to me.Speaking of which, I'm looking forward to Tiruin's question list, and I'm not sure what to make of Persus's only post; it was yesterday, so he should have a post up today; sometime soon, I hope, because today's only got 6 more hours in my timezone.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 23, 2015, 08:31:45 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 23, 2015, 08:37:46 pm
Meant to say thisEveryone:What do you think is the most usefull power?
Obviously, this would depend on what kind of person you are playing. For example, a vigilante might enjoy poison while a coward would think that hide or even a self pardon would be good.
I did give some examples right here.
Here are some more:
Serial Killer: Infect
Doctor: Innate-preotect
Thief: Scan and Sap
Philantrhropist: innate-bless
Trickster: Gossip
Necromancer: innate-raise zombie
Mafia: booby trap
Ok, that's what I was looking for. Unvote because I now realize that people were talking past each other.
There might be multiple right answers, but you gave no answer.But the question you asked, below, includes the words "the" and "most", implying that there only is one answer, not multiple right answers.Very well then, how about the most useful town power?Furthermore, he did answer. Paraphrasing, he said "This is a trick question, so the answer is all of them". Which is an answer, it's just not one you liked. Which makes your entire statement false.
TheDarkStar, I don't like the narrow mindedness that you're exhibiting here.That's not beneficial to anyone and stop any kind of information being transferred to the town.This, at least, is more true. However, he was simply answering to the best of his ability, and really the answer didn't stop anyone else from answering your question. The fact that you're hung up on it is what's stopping the flow of information.
He answered the question in more detail later, so I'd say he has satisfactorily answered the question.
Peradon:Very well then, how about the most usefull town power?Peradon, are your scumbuddies so bad that you have to ask everyone else how to come across as town?
Shakerag: Can you explain this more? Is this RVS or serious?
Wait a second..
Shakerag, how the heck could you misunderstand both me and origami? Did you even read the context of either of those quotes, or are you simply trying to start a wagon?
Ok, I'm going to go analyse your posts now...
-snip-
FoS on Shakerag for now.
Peradon, why not a full vote?
TheDarkStar:OSG: There might be multiple right answers, but you gave no answer. That's not beneficial to anyone and stop any kind of information being transferred to the town. Now, which specific power do you think is best/most effective? Other people had no trouble answering this (like 4mask and Varee).Thank you, TheDarkStar, for calling OSG on his obvious scumminess. Because he's not answering a random RVS question about what the best town powers are ... I just feel so in the dark now. Please keep up the pressure so that we townies can keep fighting the good fight once we have this critical intel.
4maskwolf:
Active lurking? This early? Really? >_>
[sarcasm]I'll make sure to keep fighting for properly answered RVS questions in the future, yes. [/sarcasm]
Do you mean that 4mask is active lurking or are you talking about his accusation that I was active lurking? Does it make you suspicious of 4mask?
Vote counting is hard.
Agreed.
Everyone else: Is there anything else that bears sharing: specifically, are you Unable to Vote, because it's pretty important for the town to know that.
Well like I said, I don't think lynching someone really help the town so ,No lynch
Varee, why are you trying to push a no-lynch on Day 1? Day 1 lynches are one of the best sources of information there is - it's how I found two of the scum in the first CYOM.
Spoiler: PPE: Partially answered by a later post. (click to show/hide)
I began to be suspicious of TDS after he was dissatisfied with my answer to your question:He voted for me for "dodging" the questionEveryone:What do you think is the most usefull power?
Obviously, this would depend on what kind of person you are playing. For example, a vigilante might enjoy poison while a coward would think that hide or even a self pardon would be good.OSG, why do keep dodging the question? "It depends" is a meaningless phrase and avoids telling the town anything useful.He even called 4maskwolf "overreacting" when he called TDS on it:4mask: You're overreacting a lot. Why are you so worried about OSG? How am I lazy? Why do you expect people to have major posts in the first 5-6 pages of the game?OSG, why do keep dodging the question? "It depends" is a meaningless phrase and avoids telling the town anything useful.I know this isn't directed towards me, but...
Are you really saying you think there is one universally good power for the town to take? Like, really? In this game, with all it's possible combinations?
It depends is only bad when there is a way to give an actual answer, but there ISN'T. I just gave one because I happen to like the power and think it needs to, you know, actually see play.
You, sir, are honest-to-goodness the lazziest scum I have ever met. Every part of that vote smacks of jumping on an easy attack, and the fact that you've made a lot of posts without anything major in them speaks of active-lurking.
TDS
Yes, this is what happened. I called you on a vague response. That's not scummy.
He actually qualifies 4mask's accusation of his laziness by saying this:Why do you expect people to have major posts in the first 5-6 pages of the game?By this time, people should have something at least, and all TDS has done was attack me for a completely illegitimate reason.
I know that there have been other people who have failed to contribute much to this game so far (Shakerag, Persus13, Turian) But, TDS attacked me as if just to say that he contributed something, even if it had no concrete reasoning. Seems like active lurking to me.
OSG: You have a double standard here - Shakerag, Persus13, and Tiruan have all contributed less, but they get a free pass? Why?
You also say that you find me scummy because I attacked you. That's a knee-jerk response and generally indicates that you are scummy.
Post by: Peradon on February 23, 2015, 08:43:29 pm
Peradon, why not a full vote?I thought I had a vote on someone, but I didnt. I voted for him later on...
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 23, 2015, 08:48:57 pm
I literally answered your question in th quote right above your question. You are sounding desperate now TheDarkStarBy this time, people should have something at least, and all TDS has done was attack me for a completely illegitimate reason.OSG: You have a double standard here - Shakerag, Persus13, and Tiruan have all contributed less, but they get a free pass? Why?
I know that there have been other people who have failed to contribute much to this game so far (Shakerag, Persus13, Turian) But, TDS attacked me as if just to say that he contributed something, even if it had no concrete reasoning. Seems like active lurking to me.
You also say that you find me scummy because I attacked you. That's a knee-jerk response and generally indicates that you are scummy.
Post by: Varee on February 23, 2015, 09:00:14 pm
Post by: hector13 on February 23, 2015, 09:30:40 pm
With the lynch, the alignment is revealed, so you know for certain (obviously) and can look back over their posts with that in mind.
TDS Origami was voting for you because he answered a question you said he didn't, there's nothing knee-jerk about it. Do you want me to give you a shovel so you can keep digging that hole?
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 23, 2015, 09:41:52 pm
Varee: Lynching is good because it gives a list of votes to look at and it provides a role along with the player name and mask.
Post by: Peradon on February 23, 2015, 09:47:39 pm
OSG: You say that my only reason for attacking you was to show that I was contributing something, but you haven't provided evidence for that.How do you provide evidence for that? You cant prove motive. He was judging your motive...
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 23, 2015, 10:03:27 pm
Spoiler: post analysis (click to show/hide)
(in a few rounds, actually).
Post by: Persus13 on February 23, 2015, 10:12:01 pm
Pro-tip, scumhunting someone based on what you think their motive is doesn't work because you have no idea what their motive is besides what they themselves say their motive is. You can use their actions to try and guess their motive but that's the best you can do.OSG: You say that my only reason for attacking you was to show that I was contributing something, but you haven't provided evidence for that.How do you provide evidence for that? You cant prove motive. He was judging your motive...
I appreciate the concern, but its unnecessary.origamiscienceguy:This is sarcasm. Right? I am terrible at seeing sarcasm in posts.Yes. It was sarcasm. You seem to have a better ability to spot it than our friend Peradon over there.QuoteI wanted to make sure he got his actions in.And you care that he got his actions in ... why?
I am sure that nobody, Persus13 included, would enjoy being killed before they got to do anything. He said he would be back today sometime, which could be after the grace period ended.
Peradon: How is Shakerag's statement buddying? Did you see the "we townies" as including or excluding TheDarkStar?
Varree: There are other ways for townies to get information. However, town collectively doesn't know if that information is true or not. Lynching people is the only surefire way for town to know someone's role and alignment without giving the option who to kill over to the scum.
OSG: How is TDS asking meangless questions not normal for the beginning of a game? How do his questions benefit himself? Also, you're ignoring the fact that the booby trap questions were addressing hector13 who said he considered booby trap to be OP.
Why are y'all doing reads and post analysis 48 hours into the game that started on a weekend? If I want to read through all of a player's posts I'll read through the thread.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 23, 2015, 10:16:52 pm
OSG: How is TDS asking meangless questions not normal for the beginning of a game?I was saying that they were meaningless just to point out that he had thus far done nothing meaningful.
Post by: Peradon on February 23, 2015, 10:30:49 pm
Peradon: How is Shakerag's statement buddying? Did you see the "we townies" as including or excluding TheDarkStar?Well, he was addressing TDS(Telling him to keep up the pressure, which is kind of odd..), so I'm pretty sure it included him. Plus, that part had buddying written all over it. He was painting TDS in a good light, as if he knew he was town.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 23, 2015, 10:43:09 pm
I'm pretty sure that Shakerag was being sarcastic when he commented on my posting.Peradon: How is Shakerag's statement buddying? Did you see the "we townies" as including or excluding TheDarkStar?Well, he was addressing TDS(Telling him to keep up the pressure, which is kind of odd..), so I'm pretty sure it included him. Plus, that part had buddying written all over it. He was painting TDS in a good light, as if he knew he was town.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 23, 2015, 10:45:10 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 23, 2015, 11:09:04 pm
There are 3 things that could have happened.
1)He was telling the truth, and was being sarcastic. As I said earlier, being sarcastic is anti-town. It gives no content at all, and is just muddying everything. If this is true, he is either bad at mafia, or is scum
2)He was lying and was trying to buddy. If this is true, he clearly doesnt have the town in mind, and thus is scum.
3)He was lying, but wasnt trying to buddy. Pretty much the same as above. He is clearly scum.
So, you can see my reasoning. He is either a bad mafia player, or he is scum. I doubt he's that bad at mafia, given the number of games he has played.
Which leaves only the possibility of him being scum.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 23, 2015, 11:14:49 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2015, 11:18:05 pm
Post by: flabort on February 23, 2015, 11:30:58 pm
That is a fair asessment, but I'm not completely convinced. I'm still gonna keep my vote on TDS.
I call bullshit on that assessment, but I can deal with you tomorrow, Peradon. For now, TDS is the scummiest, so he goes first.I could call one of these quotes buddying peradon and the other chainsaw defending shakerag, and I doubt anyone could disagree. But it's still day 1, and such accusations are a mite early to be bringing out. I don't think that the attempts to buddy up with peradon or defend shakerag were the intents of these posts. Just remind me to come back to them later.
As far as Peradon's assessment of shakerag goes, I don't see much fault in it, but on the other hand it feels like jumping to conclusions. I'd like to see TDS lynched first, like 4mask does, but I think after that I'd like to see shakerag's flip.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2015, 11:41:26 pm
Post by: Persus13 on February 23, 2015, 11:51:08 pm
1)He was telling the truth, and was being sarcastic. As I said earlier, being sarcastic is anti-town. It gives no content at all, and is just muddying everything. If this is true, he is either bad at mafia, or is scumExcept this isn't true, sarcasm is used to make a point. For instance, Shakerag was being sarcastic towards TDs trying to attack OSG for not answering an RVS question. Lots of mafia players use sarcasm (Jim, Shakerag, even myself on occasion) not because we're scum or bad at mafia, because that's simply a personality or playstyle trait. And scumhunting someone on playstyle is a bad idea, because it doesn't help you find scum. You may notlike sarcasm, but you either have to learn to deal with it, or ask people to not do it, but not try to lynch people for it.
I got that part. Do you think that at this stage everyone should have accomplished something meaningful? What about my other questions?OSG: How is TDS asking meangless questions not normal for the beginning of a game?I was saying that they were meaningless just to point out that he had thus far done nothing meaningful.
Post by: Peradon on February 24, 2015, 12:06:02 am
Well, everyone is saying that Shakerag is just extremely sarcastic, so I guess I'll Unvote. But still, I think he needs to stop being like that.1)He was telling the truth, and was being sarcastic. As I said earlier, being sarcastic is anti-town. It gives no content at all, and is just muddying everything. If this is true, he is either bad at mafia, or is scumExcept this isn't true, sarcasm is used to make a point. For instance, Shakerag was being sarcastic towards TDs trying to attack OSG for not answering an RVS question. Lots of mafia players use sarcasm (Jim, Shakerag, even myself on occasion) not because we're scum or bad at mafia, because that's simply a personality or playstyle trait. And scumhunting someone on playstyle is a bad idea, because it doesn't help you find scum. You may notlike sarcasm, but you either have to learn to deal with it, or ask people to not do it, but not try to lynch people for it.
I have to agree that TDS isnt adding much to the game. I think that he might have posted that huge post to make it look like he's active, but its really just composed of quotes, so it really doesnt add up to much. So, Vote TheDarkStar.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 24, 2015, 12:07:13 am
These questions are some examples of how he wanted to learn to act town. At least in my opinion. Other people might interpret this completely different.
Tiruin: What kind of cooperation would be effective between town members with different sets of roles?
flabort: What powers are safe to randomly use without knowing who each mask belongs to?
Post by: hector13 on February 24, 2015, 12:20:21 am
These questions are some examples of how he wanted to learn to act town. At least in my opinion. Other people might interpret this completely different.Tiruin: What kind of cooperation would be effective between town members with different sets of roles?
flabort: What powers are safe to randomly use without knowing who each mask belongs to?
Mmm... I'm not sure he was learning to act town, but you could certainly put the spin that he's scum trying to figure out which powers to booby-trap or mess about with.
Post by: Peradon on February 24, 2015, 12:23:27 am
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 24, 2015, 12:28:09 am
He tried to kill somebody (he had the ability after all) and the person he hit had a reflect on them.
Post by: hector13 on February 24, 2015, 12:39:34 am
Bed-time is totally not time to be trying to analyse shit in mafia, apparently.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 24, 2015, 12:41:18 am
Post by: flabort on February 24, 2015, 12:59:39 am
Anyways, going to bed now, but just wanted to say:
Another theory regarding Deathsword's death:...that I was just about to say this.
He tried to kill somebody (he had the ability after all) and the person he hit had a reflect on them.
It's very possible, anyways, but at the moment it's speculation. I think that any vig should buy Death Resistant out of policy, to avoid stuff like that, and other vigs; however, the game has already begun and as we can see there was at least one townie with a kill who didn't have Death Resistant. However, it might be a scum who performed the kill, it might be a third party, or another town member. Or maybe someone booby trapped an ability he used.
Too many possibilities; I think that the reflected kill is plausible on the boarder of likely, but I don't think we can say for sure.
Post by: Varee on February 24, 2015, 01:49:01 am
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 24, 2015, 02:01:25 am
If that theory is true then the mafia havent sue there kill yet ( or they use poison or other non instant version of kill.) So if another kill happen before the lynch then that theory is wrong.
What does sue mean?
Post by: Peradon on February 24, 2015, 02:01:56 am
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 24, 2015, 02:06:57 am
Post by: Tiruin on February 24, 2015, 10:14:00 am
It seems like the day-actions occur right..a day or so prior to the lynch-date?
Reading most recent posts--I think its either something that occurs with Kill, Reflect, Booby-trap, Hypnotize, Redirect, Randomize -- all not necessarily occurring from or towards Deathsword, considering the vagueness of how I read it (ie I'm only looking at the death post, and the recentmost posts) [as far as I know, unless other powers are missing from the setup that could've occurred inwhat we see now]
Post by: hector13 on February 24, 2015, 10:36:02 am
Post by: Tiruin on February 24, 2015, 10:38:39 am
Right... ah... Unvote since someAre...you unvoting as a generality or is there something else which you'd think you'd spent your vote on in the future?UTTER BASTARDperson seems to have given me a Guilty Conscience. Thanks!
That could be a Curse or any affliated power, by the way.
...Given the strikethrough it seems you're new to this.
Post by: hector13 on February 24, 2015, 10:44:04 am
Right... ah... Unvote since someAre...you unvoting as a generality or is there something else which you'd think you'd spent your vote on in the future?UTTER BASTARDperson seems to have given me a Guilty Conscience. Thanks!
I'm unvoting because I'm not entirely convinced TDS is scum. He's acting scummiest so far, but this is D1. On a purely statistical level, he's more likely to be town, and if he does flip town, I'd die... and this is my first kinda sorta "real" mafia game, so I'm thinking lots of learning can be had with my continued existence.
I'll try to get rid of the flaw D2, because otherwise I'm a bit pointless.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 24, 2015, 10:48:28 am
Post by: hector13 on February 24, 2015, 10:50:46 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2015, 11:02:35 am
Post by: hector13 on February 24, 2015, 11:15:50 am
Post by: Tiruin on February 24, 2015, 11:16:32 am
hector13: I just hope you know that by announcing it out loud, you confirmed to someone what your mask is[...]This, Hector, aaaaand the notion that you're being overt with the occurrences of what people have done to you.
...Was there any reason to append:
Right... ah... Unvote since somebasically everything post-unvote, or is that the primary reason you're unvoting given your read on TDS?UTTER BASTARDperson seems to have given me a Guilty Conscience. Thanks!
PPE: ...That's not being 'too honest'. That's being overt.
Two different things. Silly.
Post by: hector13 on February 24, 2015, 11:21:09 am
I already shopped today, after realising I hadn't spent all my points, otherwise I'd sell something and get rid of it now.
Post by: Varee on February 24, 2015, 11:25:33 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2015, 11:31:01 am
Keep in mind hector might be out right lying to throw people off so it might be a deliberate mistake :PYeah, I realized that halfway through my own post. But if he gets caught in a lie it means lynching, because that lie isn't townsided at all, so I'll just let that warning stand for everyone: if you lie, and there's no legitimate town reason why you should lie, then all hell WILL break loose if the town finds out.
Post by: Tiruin on February 24, 2015, 11:40:12 am
I'd doubt that, Varee, but that's for discussion of a later time.Keep in mind hector might be out right lying to throw people off so it might be a deliberate mistake :PYeah, I realized that halfway through my own post. But if he gets caught in a lie it means lynching, because that lie isn't townsided at all, so I'll just let that warning stand for everyone: if you lie, and there's no legitimate town reason why you should lie, then all hell WILL break loose if the town finds out.
Post by: hector13 on February 24, 2015, 11:43:38 am
I'd doubt that, Varee, but that's for discussion of a later time.Keep in mind hector might be out right lying to throw people off so it might be a deliberate mistake :PYeah, I realized that halfway through my own post. But if he gets caught in a lie it means lynching, because that lie isn't townsided at all, so I'll just let that warning stand for everyone: if you lie, and there's no legitimate town reason why you should lie, then all hell WILL break loose if the town finds out.
What makes you doubt it? Perhaps it was you who cursed me? You did seem to be quite quick to suggest what may have caused it in the first place, without anything more than me saying "yeah, I just got a new flaw".
Post by: Tiruin on February 24, 2015, 11:48:13 am
::) Yeah sure. That's actually me poking perceived newbies rather than anything else implied.I'd doubt that, Varee, but that's for discussion of a later time.Keep in mind hector might be out right lying to throw people off so it might be a deliberate mistake :PYeah, I realized that halfway through my own post. But if he gets caught in a lie it means lynching, because that lie isn't townsided at all, so I'll just let that warning stand for everyone: if you lie, and there's no legitimate town reason why you should lie, then all hell WILL break loose if the town finds out.
What makes you doubt it? Perhaps it was you who cursed me? You did seem to be quite quick to suggest what may have caused it in the first place, without anything more than me saying "yeah, I just got a new flaw".
What makes me doubt it is because its too young a day for deliberating something so vague. I doubt it would be a lie because, as provided by the answer to a question I asked, you're...blatantly unvoting because of something you announced.
Which, if a lie, would be pretty vague and a very, very pointed scapegoat--which could be seen up later in-game (ie massclaim), amongst other factors which it would tire to be discussed at the moment due to expounding on a very theoretical notion on a very tiny and obscure situation.
Post by: notquitethere on February 24, 2015, 01:45:51 pm
4maskwolf
Peradon [1] - Shakerag
Shakerag
Varee
origamiscienceguy [1] - TheDarkStar
Flabort
Hector13
Tiruin
TheDarkStar [3] - 4maskwolf, origamiscienceguy, Peradon
Deus Asmoth
*Persus13
No Lynch
*(Extended)
Hammer is 6 votes. Day ends 12AM GMT Friday as Persus extended.
List of Active Masks
Red, Green, Bronze, White, Gold, Silver, Blue, Orange, Brown, Cream, Purple, Turquoise, Yellow, Black, Violet
List of Dead Masks
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2015, 02:31:27 pm
If that theory is true then the mafia havent sue there kill yet ( or they use poison or other non instant version of kill.) So if another kill happen before the lynch then that theory is wrong.Poison kills after the lynch.
NQT: Varee is voting for no-lynch, unless he's a nonvoter.
Everyone: Who do you suspect the most and why? Reads lists too, if you have a good enough read on enough people. I'll try to compile mine and put it up in a second.
Post by: Peradon on February 24, 2015, 03:02:59 pm
Most scummy
-------------
TDS: He isnt giving detailed posts, and that bit about OSG dodging my question was odd to say the least. Either he's scum, or he just isnt into this game yet.
Varee: Keeps on pushing for a no-lynch in order to get more time to scumhunt. Oddly, he hasnt done any scumhunting at all.
OSG:Really, he's here because of a gut feeling. I can't really explain it, but I'm looking into it a little.
Hector13: Was active during the RQS, but then disappeared. He reappeared in the last few pages, but his absense was a little odd.
-------------
Neutrality line
-------------
4mask:Seems to be scumhunting. Can't really complain about him.
Flabort:Well, he's here because of something he said earlier that caught my attention. I dont want to point it out yet though, it might give some stuff about me away. This is really just a hunch though...
-------------
Most Townie
The rest havent posted enough for me to get good reads on them.
Post by: hector13 on February 24, 2015, 03:26:01 pm
TDS - Seems to have misinterpreted a lot of questions ask to them, the nonsense about Origami not answering the question (I think he answered the question about as fully as anyone can in this game) and then voting for him. He also unvoted Origami and then... voted for him again, in the same post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6058212#msg6058212), which is filled with FoS's (one for Origami too). Why so paranoid TDS? I would be voting, if not for my flaws. Propah scum-read. [/geezer]
Peradon is next, for his insistence that he's not scum, and some of the questions he's asked (specifically most useful town powers (which powers should I booby-trap/delete/swap) and best town play styles (who should I kill?)) rub me the wrong way.
Varee gets a scum lean for the No Lynch suggestion.
Shakerag gets a null-leaning-scum for the bare minimum answers he gave to some questions here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6057015#msg6057015). Could be time related, but if you don't have time to post, what's the point in doing it?
Persus and Tiruin are null, given lack of content.
Origami and Deus Asmoth get slight town reads because of activity, asking questions, generating content. Origami aided by TDS being scum-read and his... erratic attention on him.
flabort is comfy town read, appears to be actively hunting, postulating and letting us know his thought processes. Useful.
4mask is most town, active, asking and answering questions, encouraging scumhunting amongst the town.
Quick question for Peradon: what's so suspicious about my absence? Am I not allowed to leave the forum every so often? :P
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 24, 2015, 03:33:28 pm
Scummiest
TheDarkStar: As I've said in more detail earlier, his first and so far only benefit to the town was attacking me for an illegitimate reason. It seemed that he was just trying to look like he was doing something. In other words, active lurking.
Hector13: A bit iffy on you, you said your layout to everybody as if to encourage them to attack you. So I'm thinking you are lying and are trying to catch everybody in a self-protect trap. For all I know, you may have been the one deathsword tried to kill, but that is a bit of a stretch.
Shakerag: I recognized the sarcasm, but I still feel that sarcasm is inherently anti-town since it isn't benefiting anyone.
Peradon: Haven't seen anything blatantly scummy out of you, but I would like to know where your "gut feeling" is coming from. Last time I played a game and someone had a "gut feeling" they were godfather.
Varee: I can see why you want to go no-lynch, but that doesn't explain your complete lack of
scumhunting.
Tiruin/Persus13: not enough information.
Deus Asmoth: You haven't posted much, but from those posts, you seem interested in finding scum.
4maskwolf: best scumhunting I've seen in this game so far.
Towniest
Post by: hector13 on February 24, 2015, 03:36:17 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 24, 2015, 03:38:20 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 24, 2015, 03:40:50 pm
I also forgot to put Shakerag in there. He's just above Hector. Basically due to his general attitude and sarcasm.
PPE: I'll make another post addressing your question Origami...
Post by: hector13 on February 24, 2015, 03:43:52 pm
Any encouragement to attack me would be at my own risk, assuming somebody wanted to do that. I only see that happening if the person was scum.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 24, 2015, 03:45:54 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 24, 2015, 03:47:43 pm
Thats basically it, actually. For some reason I expected that to be a really long post....
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 24, 2015, 03:49:50 pm
Post by: hector13 on February 24, 2015, 03:58:00 pm
Also, Peradon, I voted for TDS (or rather, kept my vote on them) because he was attacking Origami, and then the post in which he unvoted, FoS'd and then re-voted Origami, which... I can't get my head round the logic in doing that.
I don't understand the OMGUS part, seeing as he never actually voted for me... and my vote was on TDS since the start of the game.
Post by: Peradon on February 24, 2015, 04:00:16 pm
Post by: hector13 on February 24, 2015, 04:01:37 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2015, 04:07:33 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 24, 2015, 04:11:41 pm
Scummiest
TheDarkStar: As I've said in more detail earlier, his first and so far only benefit to the town was attacking me for an illegitimate reason. It seemed that he was just trying to look like he was doing something. In other words, active lurking.
Shakerag: I recognized the sarcasm, but I still feel that sarcasm is inherently anti-town since it isn't benefiting anyone.
Hector13: A bit iffy on you, you said your layout to everybody as if to encourage them to attack you. So I'm thinking you are lying and are trying to catch everybody in a self-protect trap. For all I know, you may have been the one deathsword tried to kill, but that is a bit of a stretch.
Peradon: Haven't seen anything blatantly scummy out of you, but I would like to know where your "gut feeling" is coming from. Last time I played a game and someone had a "gut feeling" they were godfather.
Varee: I can see why you want to go no-lynch, but that doesn't explain your complete lack of
scumhunting.
Tiruin/Persus13: not enough information.
Deus Asmoth/flabort: You haven't posted much, but from those posts, you seem interested in finding scum.
4maskwolf: best scumhunting I've seen in this game so far.
Towniest
[/quote]
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2015, 04:14:03 pm
Reads List:
Deathsword: Guaranteed town, due to death.
Peradon: Still getting a bad vibe from him, particularly his attacks on Shakerag for sarcasm. Mild-moderate scum.
Shakerag: Is still being Shakerag. Null.
Varee: Seems... incredibly focused on getting that no-lynch. My theory is that he is a third-party doctor who is trying to acheive his wincon, particularly due to his assumptions about the number of teams (he assumed there was only one team and then when NQT confirmed that there was a third-party he asked if the presence of a third-party meant there was only one scumteam, which seems, to me, to indicate that he is a third-party who made that assumption or a member of the scumteam playing incredibly poorly, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt re: stupidity). Third-party read.
origamiscienceguy: Comes up with a lot of theories about deaths, but not to the point I find it suspicious. Neutral Read.
flabort: Still nothing ringing any alarm bells. Mild town read.
hector13: Nothing has wrung any alarm bells here since the beginning, mild town read.
Tiruin: Hasn't said anything to sway me either way. Neutral read.
TheDarkStar: Strong scum read, for the reasons I've explained.
Deus Asmoth: Don't have hugely much to go on, neutral read.
Persus13: Null read.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 24, 2015, 05:21:06 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 24, 2015, 05:24:04 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 24, 2015, 05:32:57 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 24, 2015, 05:39:57 pm
Well, everyone is saying that Shakerag is just extremely sarcastic, so I guess I'll Unvote. But still, I think he needs to stop being like that.
I have to agree that TDS isnt adding much to the game. I think that he might have posted that huge post to make it look like he's active, but its really just composed of quotes, so it really doesnt add up to much. So, Vote TheDarkStar.
Responding to quotes is a fairly normal part of mafia; a post with quotes and responses/questions is a good thing. It's also my posting style.
Why are you so passive? You have multiple posts where, rather than adding anything, you just say that you agree with the ideas of everyone else.
Yeah I agree that its kind of a stretch.
Well, everyone is saying that Shakerag is just extremely sarcastic, so I guess I'll Unvote. But still, I think he needs to stop being like that.
I have to agree that TDS isnt adding much to the game
TDS: He isnt giving detailed posts, and that bit about OSG dodging my question was odd to say the least. Either he's scum, or he just isnt into this game yet.
Why are you so vague about whether I'm scum or not? You're acting like you want to avoid blame if I get lynched.
hector13:
TDS - Seems to have misinterpreted a lot of questions ask to them, the nonsense about Origami not answering the question (I think he answered the question about as fully as anyone can in this game) and then voting for him. He also unvoted Origami and then... voted for him again, in the same post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6058212#msg6058212), which is filled with FoS's (one for Origami too). Why so paranoid TDS? I would be voting, if not for my flaws. Propah scum-read. [/geezer]
I voted for OSG because I finally got what he was saying. I later voted for him because he did something else scummy. I also had a massive headache and couldn't format posts very well.
Origami, I don't understand your logic. Why would is it scummy to reveal my mask colour to someone who attacked me?
Also, Peradon, I voted for TDS (or rather, kept my vote on them) because he was attacking Origami, and then the post in which he unvoted, FoS'd and then re-voted Origami, which... I can't get my head round the logic in doing that.
I don't understand the US part, seeing as he never actually voted for me... and my vote was on TDS since the start of the game.
I've said why I had odd post formatting above. However, is it actually something scummy or is it just a posting style? If it's scummy, why?
Reaction voting is when you vote someone who finds you scummy or who is scumhunting you. Leaving an RVS vote where it is for those reasons is essentially the same thing.
OSG:
Here is my readlist:
Scummiest
TheDarkStar: As I've said in more detail earlier, his first and so far only benefit to the town was attacking me for an illegitimate reason. It seemed that he was just trying to look like he was doing something. In other words, active lurking.
Hector13: A bit iffy on you, you said your layout to everybody as if to encourage them to attack you. So I'm thinking you are lying and are trying to catch everybody in a self-protect trap. For all I know, you may have been the one deathsword tried to kill, but that is a bit of a stretch.
Shakerag: I recognized the sarcasm, but I still feel that sarcasm is inherently anti-town since it isn't benefiting anyone.
Peradon: Haven't seen anything blatantly scummy out of you, but I would like to know where your "gut feeling" is coming from. Last time I played a game and someone had a "gut feeling" they were godfather.
Varee: I can see why you want to go no-lynch, but that doesn't explain your complete lack of
scumhunting.
Tiruin/Persus13: not enough information.
Deus Asmoth: You haven't posted much, but from those posts, you seem interested in finding scum.
4maskwolf: best scumhunting I've seen in this game so far.
Towniest
Response to your reads: You say that I've done nothing after discounting everything I've done. Technically true, but as meaningless as "If you don't count the snow, there's no snow is Boston right now."
Why do you think that Hector is scummy for revealing his role when there are masks?
What did Deus Asmoth do that makes you think he wants to find scum? Doesn't that phrase apply to most people here?
Can you quote the scumhunting that 4mask has done? Why is it so much better than anyone else's?
The last game I played with him, a vengefull mafia game, he didn't do so well as the scum. He may just be trying to fit in more now.
My ally was the godfather and up for lynching (which would have been an immediate loss) so I started playing like a jester in that game to get myself lynched rather than my ally.
Reads:
4maskwolf: Town lean because he is scumhunting.
Peradon: Scum lean for very passive play and not really adding much to the discussion.
Shakerag: Acting like Shakerag so far, so null read.
Varee: Wants a no-lynch. Third party/scum lean, but not as strong as my other reads.
OSG: Scum lean for his reaction to my scumhunting.
flabort: Null read for now; he hasn't really done much.
Hector13: Slight scum lean, but he hasn't done that much so far.
Tiruin: Null read due to lack of posts.
DA: Null read due to lack of posts.
Persus13: Null read due to lack of posts.
Post by: Shakerag on February 24, 2015, 06:05:57 pm
I am sure that nobody, Persus13 included, would enjoy being killed before they got to do anything. He said he would be back today sometime, which could be after the grace period ended.That's technically true ... but your altruism feels a bit odd to me. Persus13 could be scum after all, and now you're helping scum make sure they have their actions in.
Reasons for suspecting TDSAnd were you going to provide these reasons without being asked for them?
Spoiler: Non-game related (click to show/hide)
4maskwolf:
Shakerag: I call it like I see it. When someone makes seven posts in a row that do nothing to further the game, with their only useful post being their first, it certainly perks up my ears.Ehh ... I didn't see much that really caught my attention as a whole looking through those links of yours. Do you really think that is anything out of the ordinary on D1? Would you say that you often do/would call out that kind of behavior D1?
Spoiler: Non-game related (click to show/hide)
Peradon:
Shakerag: First off, I dont think sarcasm should ever be used in mafia.I was going to write a really sarcastic, antagonizing reply (without sarcasm tags, gasp!), but I think the issue has been beaten to death enough already. You don't think it should be used. I do. We'll agree to disagree.
TheDarkStar:
Shakerag: Can you explain this more? Is this RVS or serious?Your question is ... phrased in an interesting way, but I think I'm gleaning your intent. It's a serious question. Why?
Quote
Do you mean that 4mask is active lurking or are you talking about his accusation that I was active lurking? Does it make you suspicious of 4mask?I think I answered this one already. The latter, for the record. I think part of his case on you has merit, but the active lurking accusation feels weak to me, so it's enough to make me at least raise an eyebrow in his direction.
Varee:
Pretty much what everyone else has been saying, but I want to emphasize that while everyone can get information and reveal results, we can't 100% trust what the players say. When someone is lynched and the roleflip is revealed, that is mod-confirmed info and is something concrete for everyone to work with. If you ever play a game with obfuscated roleflips, you will quickly appreciate all the games in which they are not.
flabort:
I could call one of these quotes buddying peradon and the other chainsaw defending shakerag, and I doubt anyone could disagree.I would. From my perspective, I see an acknowledgement, and someone calling out another player's bullshit case. The former is weaker, but the latter (especially with 4mask's follow-up post) has stronger reasoning behind it.
[LOLZSARCASM360NOSCOPEHEADSHOTROFLMAO420YOLO]
I'll remember, in the future, if anyone votes you with bullshit reasoning to not say anything about it, for fear that it may look like I'm chainsaw defending you.
[/LOLZSARCASM360NOSCOPEHEADSHOTROFLMAO420YOLO]
Tiruin:
...Given the strikethrough it seems you're new to this.That actually made me laugh. Thank you.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on February 24, 2015, 06:47:31 pm
Post by: hector13 on February 24, 2015, 07:00:28 pm
Spoiler: quotes (click to show/hide)
It could very well just be your playstyle, but I don't really understand why you would feel the need to unvote someone, FoS them and then vote for them, all in one post.
I don't understand the logic behind doing that, because you must have initially felt that he wasn't scummy enough to get lynched, and then decided that maybe actually he's suspicious enough to potentially be voted, and then changed your mind back to Origami being scummy enough to be lynched. You also used the end of the spoilered part as your reason for voting Origami, even though you only FoS'd him in the spoilered bit. I can't see a town motive in any of that.
WoT as well; not scummy in itself, but it's not exactly making everything concise. If you're not going to make the effort to format your post, for whatever reason, you probably shouldn't post. Assuming, of course, a town motivation.
Post by: hector13 on February 24, 2015, 07:04:13 pm
The offer of a shovel remains open.
Post by: flabort on February 24, 2015, 08:58:19 pm
At least I'm only using them as citations. Expect it in less than an hour.
Post by: Peradon on February 24, 2015, 09:36:22 pm
PeradonI'm not saying your quotes are scummy. I was saying that your lack of content in that post was... disturbing. You had lots of quotes, not much content. My thought is that you were using the huge post full of quotes to hide your active-lurking.Well, everyone is saying that Shakerag is just extremely sarcastic, so I guess I'll Unvote. But still, I think he needs to stop being like that.
I have to agree that TDS isnt adding much to the game. I think that he might have posted that huge post to make it look like he's active, but its really just composed of quotes, so it really doesnt add up to much. So, Vote TheDarkStar.
Responding to quotes is a fairly normal part of mafia; a post with quotes and responses/questions is a good thing. It's also my posting style.
Why are you so passive? You have multiple posts where, rather than adding anything, you just say that you agree with the ideas of everyone else.I was agreeing. Thats not scummy, is it? If I dont have anything to add, I may not add anything. Is that a problem?Yeah I agree that its kind of a stretch.
Are you even reading context? I was saying that Shakerag was scummy due to his sarcasm. Everyone was saying that he's normally like that, so I unvoted because my original reason for my voting for him was no longer valid.Well, everyone is saying that Shakerag is just extremely sarcastic, so I guess I'll Unvote. But still, I think he needs to stop being like that.
I have to agree that TDS isnt adding much to the game
I seriously doubt you can misunderstand this many posts. I think you're panicking and trying to deflect attention from yourself.
I dont think I'm being vague. The truth is you arent giving detailed posts. This was my main basis for your scumminess.TDS: He isnt giving detailed posts, and that bit about OSG dodging my question was odd to say the least. Either he's scum, or he just isnt into this game yet.
Why are you so vague about whether I'm scum or not? You're acting like you want to avoid blame if I get lynched.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 24, 2015, 09:59:44 pm
Response to your reads: You say that I've done nothing after discounting everything I've done. Technically true, but as meaningless as "If you don't count the snow, there's no snow is Boston right now."
Why do you think that Hector is scummy for revealing his role when there are masks?
What did Deus Asmoth do that makes you think he wants to find scum? Doesn't that phrase apply to most people here?
Can you quote the scumhunting that 4mask has done? Why is it so much better than anyone else's?
1. The only person that you actively went after before I started to call you on it, was me. If you saw my post analysis, all you did before was respond to questions, ask questions that sounded like advice for yourself, and ask rvs questions.
2. Hector said what happened to him which revealed his mask to whoever targetted him. I later realized that I was mistaken (I mixed his one reveal with deathsword's)
3. I meant that he scumhunted and asked questions that were useful in doing so.
4. He has inquired about Hector13 among others this is one example:
4mask might I inquire why my question on the booby-trap power garners a scum-read from yourself?You asked about it in your first post of the game, without having mentioned it during signups as a "hey, this may be broken", which wouldn't be so bad except then made it seem like the power was a big deal overpowered ability when I asked you about it. Your question was also about how it would affect our play, which seems oddly specific to ask if you don't have the ability. In theory you could have brought my attention onto you by asking about another power, yes, but the killing powers are the ones that catch my attention the most, followed by what I call the rolefuckery powers (power swap, power steal, curse, and similar).
Had I asked about another specific power, would it receive the same response? If not, why?
Post by: flabort on February 24, 2015, 10:03:32 pm
But I think this set-up is very cool because it flips that concept on it's head; the scum/informed majority become socialism (sharing resources) and the town becomes capitalist.
So we're getting to reads lists today. Alright, I am with that. It's a shame NQT isn't playing to make a reads-aggregate analysis; I guess I'll have to do that.
Most Scum
The Dark Star: Man, I don't know how you managed to top the charts of so many people. My own reason for finding you scummy is first he leads us to believe he got changeling'd and lost his original powerscitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6053718#msg6053718), but then took it back citation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6054695#msg6054695) (I could mention this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6055677#msg6055677), but every one else already has). But his attack on OSGcitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6056008#msg6056008)citation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6056149#msg6056149), which seemed very narrow minded (See also: tunnelingcitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6058375#msg6058375)).
Shakerag: Still a joker/shakeragcitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6053924#msg6053924). Missed my question to everyone, so I reasked itcitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6054232#msg6054232), and his answer was less than most (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6057015#msg6057015); I felt I got more information from his joke answer to my joke question. Par for the course, I guess, as was the way he worded his vote on Peradon in the same post. I have mentioned before that I don't like the sarcasmcitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6057689#msg6057689) aspect of his meta, which sort of makes him one of my two always-scum reads. However, one thing that I can actually say is scummy and not part of his meta is tunnelingcitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6057888#msg6057888). This post shows him exiting the tunnel, though (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6060507#msg6060507)
Peradon: I guess he's active. His interaction with hector (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6053369#msg6053369) at first seems odd, but is only natural considering they've played together. I can't figure why everyone keeps going back to the same "I was hoping you would answer that for me" buisness,citation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6055951#msg6055951) I don't remember if he answered my questioncitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6054232#msg6054232), even if it was an ultimately pointless question. I do understand the fact that people keep accusing him of asking how to play towncitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6055974#msg6055974), since it's an easy thing to do by mistake. The thing that speaks to me is how he asks TDS why OSG was dodging the questioncitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6056173#msg6056173) that he himself, peradon, had asked in the first place, indicating he was satisfied with the answer when TDS was not. His reaction to shakerag's hostile nature is also a lot like the first time I played with shakeragcitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6057750#msg6057750), which isn't useful but lets me see his point of view better. I do have to say, though, that once he and shakerag clash he starts to tunnel a littlecitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6058564#msg6058564). I think his bad rep so far this game might be due to how often his name comes up.
Persus13: Only two meaningful posts. First (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6058423#msg6058423) he adresses a poor case and a newbie, and asks some RVS questions, and second (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6058649#msg6058649) he extends and does more or less the same thing. Nothing bad to go on, but so little to go on at all.
Tiruin: Do I want to believe her response to deathsword's answer to me?citation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6056541#msg6056541) Not really, but it's hard to tell. She has some speculation on powerscitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6059225#msg6059225)citation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6059265#msg6059265), which does little, and little elsecitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6059382#msg6059382)citation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6059369#msg6059369).
Varee: What feels like a trap? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6053755#msg6053755) Honestly, I don't know. Varee is nice and active, engaged niceling in RVScitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6054262#msg6054262)citation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6056010#msg6056010), but the push for a no-lynch is oddcitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6055878#msg6055878)citation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6056211#msg6056211)citation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6058140#msg6058140)citation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6058264#msg6058264). And lengthy, based on the number of citations.
Hector13: As pointed out by others, it's a little odd he asked about a specific powercitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6053140#msg6053140), but more odd that he mentioned scum being limited with it. He's still a typical newbiecitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6053608#msg6053608), willing to learn and all that but his posts are fluffy and insubstantialcitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6054721#msg6054721)citation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6055660#msg6055660), a condition which I'm still guilty of from time to time. His new flawcitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6059276#msg6059276) is almost convienient timing, if he were bussing before; but from a town perspective, it's just a really big pain. Neutral read.
Deus Asmoth: Nothing out of the ordinary. Maybe a clash with Peradoncitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6053644#msg6053644), maybe some rather short postscitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6055425#msg6055425)citation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6055697#msg6055697)citation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6060611#msg6060611), but his early posts feel pretty normal and he admits that he is having trouble playing two games at once. Oh, yeah, and didn't know about the changeling being distributed; possibly due to a simple trait, which would explain TDS getting two copies.
4maskwolf: Second highest post-count. Jeeze, almost as many as OSG. He explains himself well, while being consise, which is a trait I admirecitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6053083#msg6053083), but is only a meta trait. There's only a couple bad things I could say about him; he seems pretty determined to get TDS lynchedcitation needed, his objection to Peradon's assessmentcitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6058588#msg6058588) COULD be seen as a defense of Shakerag, and I guess at first I found it odd that he was voting TDS when Peradon was his top scumpickcitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.100), but I realized that it's just because TDS moved down on his list later.
Oragamiscienceguy: Hands down, the most posts in the gamecitation (https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~azhou/projects/LT/zt.py?topic=148604&start=0&msg=6052922&sort=num&numlabel=0). His theory on Deathsword's death being to frame 4mask (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6058046#msg6058046) is quickly shut down, because honestly it's absured and almost impossible with the mask mechanic, but he admits he forgot it. This (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6058183#msg6058183) seems to be one of his longer posts, an accusation of TDS. In fact (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6058405#msg6058405), with this post analysis (which 4mask had already analyzed TDS's votes), he looks like he's tunneling. He gives a "too many variables" answer (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6056031#msg6056031), which is just fine, to peradon and is attacked by TDS for it. I don't have enough time to go through every one of his posts, anyways, so I'm going to say a very, very slight town lean.
Most Town
Spoiler: All reads so far (click to show/hide)
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 24, 2015, 10:10:56 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 24, 2015, 10:23:41 pm
Quote
I don't remember if he answered my questionYeah I answered it...
Quote
Well, I would wait until I knew something about who'd behind the masks, but assuming I dont have any info on them, I would pick a random person and see if they post about it.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 24, 2015, 10:31:29 pm
I never claimed I got changelinged. I simply gained two copies of it plus some flaws. I said that I lost two copies of changeling earlier, but NQT has since told me that it was moderator error and that I still have them.
I think I'm going to not participate in RVS in the future. Everyone hates my RVS questions and follow-up posts and I end up getting lynched regardless of how I actually play afterwards.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 24, 2015, 11:13:27 pm
I think I'm going to not participate in RVS in the future. Everyone hates my RVS questions and follow-up posts and I end up getting lynched regardless of how I actually play afterwards.It wasn't your RVS that got me to vote for you, it was you suddenly voting for me NOT in RVS and giving a terrible reasoning.
Post by: Varee on February 25, 2015, 11:15:40 am
Anyway I will try compile a list before the lynch.
Post by: notquitethere on February 25, 2015, 04:27:53 pm
Forty hours later and the monks weren't a whole lot closer to picking one of their members to eject from the order.
4maskwolf
Peradon [1] - Shakerag
Shakerag
Varee
origamiscienceguy [1] - TheDarkStar
Flabort
Hector13
Tiruin
TheDarkStar [3] - 4maskwolf, origamiscienceguy, Peradon
Deus Asmoth
*Persus13
No Lynch
*(Extended)
Hammer is 6 votes. Day ends in 26.5 hours or on the hammer.
List of Active Masks
Red, Green, Bronze, White, Gold, Silver, Blue, Orange, Brown, Cream, Purple, Turquoise, Yellow, Black, Violet
List of Dead Masks
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
Post by: Peradon on February 25, 2015, 04:38:09 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 25, 2015, 04:40:47 pm
Persus13:Why are you voting to extend?
Here's where he extends and where he explains why. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6058649#msg6058649)
It took less than ten seconds to find that (going through pages and finding the "extend" phrase). Why didn't you look for it?
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 25, 2015, 04:40:56 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 25, 2015, 04:46:07 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 25, 2015, 04:47:55 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 25, 2015, 04:53:08 pm
I didnt think of that...
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 25, 2015, 04:54:34 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 25, 2015, 04:57:53 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 25, 2015, 05:07:55 pm
I'm not saying we should shorten, just that there is no reason to extend.
You're grasping at straws for a case.
Post by: notquitethere on February 25, 2015, 05:15:27 pm
But if half of us shorten, the day would end, but I want to wait for persus13 to do something before then.Just a reminder: the only way to shorten the day is to hammer a player or 'no lynch'.
Post by: Peradon on February 25, 2015, 05:19:06 pm
I'm not making a case, I just didnt know you couldn't un-extend, so I was wondering why Persus still had his extend up.I'm not saying we should shorten, just that there is no reason to extend.
You're grasping at straws for a case.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 25, 2015, 05:19:37 pm
The SAT makes me say some crazy things after.
Post by: Persus13 on February 25, 2015, 07:01:38 pm
Persus13:Why are you voting to extend?The way extends work is different than the norm. From the OP: Each player has one extension they may use once in the game. This extends the game by 24 hours.
I extended because I had a lot of work to do (especially that essay I mentioned), didn't know when day end was, and knew I wanted to get in posts before then.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 25, 2015, 07:02:33 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 25, 2015, 07:29:05 pm
Post by: Persus13 on February 25, 2015, 08:16:20 pm
Do you have time to post now? I'd like to see your reads list.In my last post I said I was working on a big post and it would be up soon. I think that answers your question. And I won't be providing a reads because there just isn't enough information to make one. Half or more of everyone else's reads are null read and mine would be even worse.
Made it to page 12 in this post, with a few things beyond that. Part 2 coming today or tomorrow.
Persus13: This is your first time being able to actually build your own role! Give a sentence or two of advice to the newer players, preferrably involving the new mechanics.My guess is there will be a lot of trigger happy killings. Please don't. Always reassess your viewpoint. Thinking of someone as scum or town can really blindside you to the actual scumteam. This may seem contradictory, but don't be afraid to stand your ground against pressure from people, even if you think they're town or are more experienced. Finally, go after people for actual things, not stuff you think could make them scummy.
I'd like to add to this that when people inevitably reveal their masks, vigs should still be very careful about who they shoot. Don't shoot a lynch leader right before day ends, and be ready to have your reasoning on why you shot at hand.
TheDarkStar: You were a vigilante in Choose-Your-Own-Mafia and shot at least one of the scum players. Do you believe that town vigilantes should shoot indiscriminately or hold their fire until they are sure? Does that unknown factor of the masks change your decision on that?
Vigilantes should hold their fire even more than usual. If they can link a mask and a player who would be a good target, they could act, but random firing is more likely to kill a town-aligned person.
Note that this is only true if it's not a shoot-or-lose situation.
4mask:
Why wouldn't you look this up in the OP if you responded to this to be sure?QuoteIt seems a bit pointless to tie myself in knots over something I can't influence at all, so I'll be trying to ignore it.There is an auto which allows you to ignore it, actually. I believe it's called "cautious".
TheDarkStar: Hasn't really said much, honestly. Seems to only respond when prodded by someone else, minus his first post of that game. Neutral/slight scum.Have you seen a game where TDS hasn't been like this?
Except Peradon didn't say that. He asked what "you" (meaning everyone) thought was the best town power. Not what is the best town power, but what a person thought was the best town power. There is a distinct difference.OSG, why do keep dodging the question? "It depends" is a meaningless phrase and avoids telling the town anything useful.I know this isn't directed towards me, but...
Are you really saying you think there is one universally good power for the town to take? Like, really? In this game, with all it's possible combinations?
You, sir, are honest-to-goodness the lazziest scum I have ever met. Every part of that vote smacks of jumping on an easy attack, and the fact that you've made a lot of posts without anything major in them speaks of active-lurking.Active-lurking generally requires a period longer than 24 hours after the day starts on a weekend.
TDS
Hector13:
If you're so worried about it, grab cautious. Booby-trap seems pretty anti-town, and booby-trapping kill seems like a bad idea for scum or an SK as they might need to use it to kill of the survivors, and a completely bad idea for town, because it would kill more townies then scum in all likelihood.Hector13: Why ask us about that specific power?
It's the most OP power in the game. You get killed for being active, using your powers, not because someone targeted you specifically for DEATH!
I would also just like to bring it to everyone's attention, in case they forgot about it or something. We need to be a bit more careful with our actions, because (as far as I can tell from the rules) it's only the scum who are limited to one kill with the booby-trap power.
TDS:
The problem with this is that you're making it sound like you aren't town. Even the answer to the question you were originally asked about being town-oriented makes it sound like you aren't town but trying to be town.4mask: I mean people with a town wincon.I was referring to when you said "I'll play a much more town-oriented game".
Oops, I though you were referring to my vigilante-related comment about town-aligned people.
Anyway, playing a town-oriented game means actively trying to find ways to help the town win and scumhunting.
OSG, why do keep dodging the question? "It depends" is a meaningless phrase and avoids telling the town anything useful.He dodged the question once, the first time was a pretty legitimate question.
Flabort:
Everyone Who would you most want, of the players in this game, to be on a scum team with you and why?You and whoever Cheeetar will replace.
Except he didn't answer, he said this:There might be multiple right answers, but you gave no answer.But the question you asked, below, includes the words "the" and "most", implying that there only is one answer, not multiple right answers.Very well then, how about the most useful town power?Furthermore, he did answer. Paraphrasing, he said "This is a trick question, so the answer is all of them". Which is an answer, it's just not one you liked. Which makes your entire statement false.
What kind of town player are you trying to be? A cop? A vigilante? A doctor? A Coward? I am saying that the powers are more appealing to different play styles.Nowhere in there does it say its a trick question.
Most ScumExcept TDS never said he got changeling'd, just that he got two copies of changeling. Does the fact that everyone finds TDS scummy alarm you at all?
The Dark Star: Man, I don't know how you managed to top the charts of so many people. My own reason for finding you scummy is first he leads us to believe he got changeling'd and lost his original powerscitation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6053718#msg6053718), but then took it back citation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6054695#msg6054695).
Peradon
Why would you consider most of the -2 flaws to be anti-town, especially considering in previous games town players have taken almost all of those flaws?Peradon What flaws could you consider to be un-town-like? What flaws are basic gimmes for town?Well, I'm not sure. Looking back, pretty much all of the -2's are anti-town, but pretty much all of them are anti-town anyway. But blatant is fairly safe I think, maybe broadcaster too.
Why does this not apply to you if you weren't scum? WHy would it apply to you if you were scum?Everyone Who would you most want, of the players in this game, to be on a scum team with you and why?Well, if I were scum, Hector, definately. But I'm not scum, so this doesnt really apply to me....
You didn't want to say you were scum? Where does it say scum pick their scumteam? Why did you think the question assumed you were scum?Uh, I'm not. I put the if in there because I didnt want to say I'm scum.Why are you so focused on making sure to indirectly tell everyone how much you are not scum?Everyone Who would you most want, of the players in this game, to be on a scum team with you and why?Well, if I were scum, Hector, definately. But I'm not scum, so this doesnt really apply to me....
Peradon, shift attention to who? And what attention am I trying to shift, exactly?
RVS is probably the most silly time of Mafia, because the questions don't matter. Why did you have a problem with DA's question to OSG when similarly silly questions were asked earlier? (Also, OSG was a evil Japanese spy in a previous Mafia game)Peradon, shift attention to who? And what attention am I trying to shift, exactly?I dont know, I was hoping you would answer that for me. Why did you post a rediculous question like that? It does nothing to aid the town, and makes it look like you're trying to look like town(due to the making light of a situation).
Everyone:What do you think is the most usefull power?This is rolefishing. The most useful power in my opinion is either bought or owned by me already, so this question is basically asking what roles do people have.
OSG:
Everybody in your opinion, what is the most powerful power by itself (no combos)This is called rolefishing. I recommend not doing it.
Post by: Peradon on February 25, 2015, 08:49:47 pm
Peradon]Because most of them are so dangerous that if you made a wrong move, you're dead. I dont see how having a dead town player helps the town.
Why would you consider most of the -2 flaws to be anti-town, especially considering in previous games town players have taken almost all of those flaws?
Why does this not apply to you if you weren't scum? Why would it apply to you if you were scum?That post felt like a trap to get people to slip up. So, thats why I enphasised me not being scum, so that no one could catch me on that. Unfortunately, everyone seems to think I put too much emphasis on it. Which, looking back, I probably did.
You didn't want to say you were scum? Where does it say scum pick their scumteam? Why did you think the question assumed you were scum?
Anyway, to your question. I wasnt thinking in those terms. I was too concerned with it being a trap. But now that you mention it, it wouldnt apply to scum or town.
As I said earlier, that was half RQS half serious concern. I chose that question because it struck me as having nothing to do with anything. I later unvoted DA because I realised that I did the same exact thing in my BM.
RVS is probably the most silly time of Mafia, because the questions don't matter. Why did you have a problem with DA's question to OSG when similarly silly questions were asked earlier? (Also, OSG was a evil Japanese spy in a previous Mafia game)
This is rolefishing. The most useful power in my opinion is either bought or owned by me already, so this question is basically asking what roles do people have.[/quote
It was a RQS question. I didnt have anything to say, so I resorted back to a random question. It was not my intent to rolefish.
Post by: flabort on February 25, 2015, 09:30:11 pm
By that logic, most of them are anti-scum, because if they make a wrong move they're dead too. I don't see how having a dead scum player helps the scum; it certainly helps the town, though.Peradon]Because most of them are so dangerous that if you made a wrong move, you're dead. I dont see how having a dead town player helps the town.
Why would you consider most of the -2 flaws to be anti-town, especially considering in previous games town players have taken almost all of those flaws?
Yes, they can be risky, but I don't believe that any of them are inherently anti-town.
Post by: Peradon on February 25, 2015, 09:41:28 pm
Fair enough. But I dont think taking those kind of risks is very beneficial.By that logic, most of them are anti-scum, because if they make a wrong move they're dead too. I don't see how having a dead scum player helps the scum; it certainly helps the town, though.Peradon]Because most of them are so dangerous that if you made a wrong move, you're dead. I dont see how having a dead town player helps the town.
Why would you consider most of the -2 flaws to be anti-town, especially considering in previous games town players have taken almost all of those flaws?
Yes, they can be risky, but I don't believe that any of them are inherently anti-town.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 25, 2015, 10:07:02 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 25, 2015, 10:08:36 pm
PPE: Ninja'd by OSG.
Post by: Peradon on February 25, 2015, 10:14:08 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2015, 10:18:05 pm
Yes I understand that. But those two-pointers are worse then the one-pointers. I, for instance took all one point flaws instead of a couple two point flaws, because I felt they would be too dangerous.And I, by contrast, took two of the two-point flaws. It's all a matter of personal choice and what risks you're willing to take. To be entirely honest, this is the first game where I've started the game with the ability to vote.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on February 26, 2015, 08:40:39 am
flabort, I did get a copy of changeling, I just didn't say anything when Mask mentioned something happening because I was afraid the scum team were distributing powers to find out who was behind what mask.
Post by: Tiruin on February 26, 2015, 08:43:28 am
<_< Arghhh
Ok, net is stable. Will post soon. Sorry for my absence.
Post by: Shakerag on February 26, 2015, 11:05:21 am
However, one thing that I can actually say is scummy and not part of his meta is tunneling.Why do you believe that tunneling is scummy? Why do you believe that tunneling is not part of my "meta"?
The Dark Star: Man, I don't know how you managed to top the charts of so many people.Does this imply that you think everyone else who is saying TDS is the most scummy have poor reasons for saying so?
Post by: flabort on February 26, 2015, 12:27:18 pm
I believe tunnelling is scummy because I have been accused of being scum for tunnelling before.
I don'tncare if it's your meta or not. It's still scummy.
No, I'm not saying everyone else has poor reasons, I'm saying he's doing something really wrong if so many people are convinced he's scum.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 26, 2015, 01:07:16 pm
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2015, 03:50:04 pm
"Well..." said one, "who's getting executed?"
4maskwolf
Peradon [2] - Shakerag, Persus13
Shakerag
Varee
origamiscienceguy [1] - TheDarkStar
Flabort
Hector13
Tiruin
TheDarkStar [3] - 4maskwolf, origamiscienceguy, Peradon
Deus Asmoth
*Persus13
No Lynch
*(Extended)
Hammer is 6 votes. Day ends in 3 and bit hours or on the hammer.
List of Active Masks
Red, Green, Bronze, White, Gold, Silver, Blue, Orange, Brown, Cream, Purple, Turquoise, Yellow, Black, Violet
List of Dead Masks
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 26, 2015, 03:59:14 pm
flabort:
pfp@shakerag:
I believe tunnelling is scummy because I have been accused of being scum for tunnelling before.
I don'tncare if it's your meta or not. It's still scummy.
No, I'm not saying everyone else has poor reasons, I'm saying he's doing something really wrong if so many people are convinced he's scum.
If I'm doing something "really wrong", what is it? Are you just going to go with the opinion of others?
Peradon: Why do you find me scummy? Can you explain this in detail again?
Post by: flabort on February 26, 2015, 04:03:55 pm
It could also mean that the mafia are pushing a mislynch on me. Saying that I'm scum because everyone else thinks so isn't actually a case.True; the fact that there was so much evidence that you are scum, coupled with the way basically everyone finds you suspect, it's almot too convinient; at this point if you flipped town I think it would reveal next to nothing about the people voting you.
I doubt that you will flip town, but if you do, I think you need more practice.
PPE: I'll answer that later, no more time to typ
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 26, 2015, 04:08:05 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 26, 2015, 04:12:47 pm
Peradon: Why do you find me scummy? Can you explain this in detail again?Well, to tell you the truth, I was begining to have doubts. But your voting for me seems like you're panicking a little bit, so it looks you're trying to get the votes tied up.
My original reason fro voting for you was because you were not making substantial posts. You seemed to be active lurking pretty hard. This post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6058212#msg6058212) especially solidified my thoughts. You hardly said anything worth mentioning, making a huge post with 95% quotes. This would be something an active lurker would do.
Also, you havent commented on OSG's comment on that post, specifically your FoSing everyone, unvoting OSG, then FoSing him, then voting him again, which really makes no sense. It looks like you were panicking.
But, lately I have been rethinking your scumminess. Really, we dont have anything solid to go on. Only your active lurking. The reason I havent unvoted you was because then both you and I would have been tied for the lynch, and since I am self confirmed, I know for sure getting myself lynched would be bad.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 26, 2015, 04:16:02 pm
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2015, 04:24:31 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 26, 2015, 04:41:13 pm
I've already answered OSG.
Right here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.285)
Also, I extended in the same post I voted you to avoid a no-lynch.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 26, 2015, 04:42:22 pm
Also, I extended in the same post I voted you to avoid a no-lynch and allow people like Tiruin and Persus time to post.
EBWOP
Post by: Peradon on February 26, 2015, 04:58:45 pm
I didn't "FoS everyone" or "FoS OSG".Oh come on. I was using hyperbole, and you know it. You FoS'd 4 people in that post, which is quite a bit. Also, what do you call this:
Quote
This is a zero-effort bandwagon. OSG. You also say that you'd like a no-lynch. Why aren't you voting one way or the other?That was in the post I was talking about. So, yes, you did FoS OSG.
I've already answered OSG.
Right here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.285)
Peradon: Your description of my post doesn't even match what I did. I unvoted OSG to show that I wasn't leaving an RVS vote on him, FoS'd three people to pressure them a bit, and then voted OSG again for something unrelated (A better post format would have been to combine the sections on OSG, but mafia isn't about critiquing post layouts).It sure didnt look like that. From all the accusations against you for active lurking, it looked like you were just trying to look more active.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 26, 2015, 05:23:10 pm
QuoteThis is a zero-effort bandwagon. OSG. You also say that you'd like a no-lynch. Why aren't you voting one way or the other?That was in the post I was talking about. So, yes, you did FoS OSG.
I had a comment, but the previous poster posted it first so I marked it as something less relevant.
Peradon: Your description of my post doesn't even match what I did. I unvoted OSG to show that I wasn't leaving an RVS vote on him, FoS'd three people to pressure them a bit, and then voted OSG again for something unrelated (A better post format would have been to combine the sections on OSG, but mafia isn't about critiquing post layouts).It sure didnt look like that.
What do you mean? (Note to anyone else reading this: read over the post that Peradon linked and compare it to what he says).
From all the accusations against you for active lurking, it looked like you were just trying to look more active.
Why are you basing a case on me off what other people are saying? Rather than pointing out somewhere where I do something, you're saying that I'm scum because someone else says so. That's really lazy.
Post by: flabort on February 26, 2015, 05:24:35 pm
Latter question first: Hell no. I can certainly form my opinions, and certainly didn't accuse you of active lurking on day 1 or bullcrap like that; I accused you of being narrow minded and attacking OSG for not giving enough information when he/she had already answered apparently to the satisfaction of the questioner.
If I'm doing something "really wrong", what is it? Are you just going to go with the opinion of others?
What you are doing wrong is not trying hard enough to act how people expect a town player to act; whether you're town or scum, you've been pinging scum on several radars (I don't doubt that one or more votes/nonvoter-votes on you may be scum, but surely some of them are town)
Post by: Peradon on February 26, 2015, 05:27:20 pm
That is not what I mean. I'm saying you reacted to everyone saying you were active lurking by making a huge post that is 95% quotes to make it look like your active. Dont twist my words.
What do you mean? (Note to anyone else reading this: read over the post that Peradon linked and compare it to what he says).
Why are you basing a case on me off what other people are saying? Rather than pointing out somewhere where I do something, you're saying that I'm scum because someone else says so. That's really lazy.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 26, 2015, 05:29:03 pm
I unvoted OSG to show that I wasn't leaving an RVS vote on himYour vote on me wasn't an RVS vote. You clearly thought, or tried to look like you were making an actual case on me.
OSG, why do keep dodging the question? "It depends" is a meaningless phrase and avoids telling the town anything useful.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 26, 2015, 05:48:21 pm
Latter question first: Hell no. I can certainly form my opinions, and certainly didn't accuse you of active lurking on day 1 or bullcrap like that; I accused you of being narrow minded and attacking OSG for not giving enough information when he/she had already answered apparently to the satisfaction of the questioner.
If I'm doing something "really wrong", what is it? Are you just going to go with the opinion of others?
RVS is a time for questions like that. It was still clearly in RVS.
What you are doing wrong is not trying hard enough to act how people expect a town player to act; whether you're town or scum, you've been pinging scum on several radars (I don't doubt that one or more votes/nonvoter-votes on you may be scum, but surely some of them are town)
So you claim I'm scum because I "don't look like town" to you. Thank you for that amazing revelation. Anything other nonobvious things to add? /sarcasm
I unvoted OSG to show that I wasn't leaving an RVS vote on himYour vote on me wasn't an RVS vote. You clearly thought, or tried to look like you were making an actual case on me.OSG, why do keep dodging the question? "It depends" is a meaningless phrase and avoids telling the town anything useful.
It was clearly RVS.
That is not what I mean. I'm saying you reacted to everyone saying you were active lurking by making a huge post that is 95% quotes to make it look like your active. Dont twist my words.
What do you mean? (Note to anyone else reading this: read over the post that Peradon linked and compare it to what he says).
Why are you basing a case on me off what other people are saying? Rather than pointing out somewhere where I do something, you're saying that I'm scum because someone else says so. That's really lazy.
Quotes are good to have. Quotes give context. They also make it clear what questions are about. Are you actually telling me that it was a bad idea to use quotes? Also, that was my first big post this game. An active-lurking accusation in the first 24 hours of the game is ridiculous because practically all those posts are RVS questions or similar fluff.
Post by: Peradon on February 26, 2015, 06:00:44 pm
Quotes are good to have. Quotes give context. They also make it clear what questions are about. Are you actually telling me that it was a bad idea to use quotes?That is not what I said. I said your quotes took up a huge amount of your post, making your post look big so that people couldnt say you were active lurking. Yes, quotes are good. But quotes can be used to hide non-content with big posts, which is what I'm saying you did. Now stop twisting my words.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 26, 2015, 06:02:36 pm
Quotes are good to have. Quotes give context. They also make it clear what questions are about. Are you actually telling me that it was a bad idea to use quotes?That is not what I said. I said your quotes took up a huge amount of your post, making your post look big so that people couldnt say you were active lurking. Yes, quotes are good. But quotes can be used to hide non-content with big posts, which is what I'm saying you did. Now stop twisting my words.
How am I twisting your words? You said that it was bad that my post was mostly quotes and so I explained why I used quotes.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 26, 2015, 06:03:56 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 26, 2015, 06:07:30 pm
The point of RVS is to get people talking. The votes increase the urgency. Your vote was on me with an explanation that would have been reasonable if it had made any sense. While RVS is sometimes based on minuscule details, you kept on insisting that I was at fault. This is clearly shown by how long it took you to get your vote off of me. Despite everybody telling you that your claim had no legitimacy, you kept your vote on me for far to long I think that this means that your vote was not RVS intended.
I'm telling you now that it was RVS so that you know for sure. If you don't believe me, there isn't much else I can do.
Everyone who thinks I'm scummy: Can you summarize your case on me? From what I can tell, it boils down to "I don't like the way you voted in RVS" and "Active lurking in the first 24 hours".
Everyone who doesn't: What do you think of the people currently voting for me?
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 26, 2015, 06:09:14 pm
That's the thing. I honestly don't believe you. The way you acted is contrary to what RVS is.The point of RVS is to get people talking. The votes increase the urgency. Your vote was on me with an explanation that would have been reasonable if it had made any sense. While RVS is sometimes based on minuscule details, you kept on insisting that I was at fault. This is clearly shown by how long it took you to get your vote off of me. Despite everybody telling you that your claim had no legitimacy, you kept your vote on me for far to long I think that this means that your vote was not RVS intended.
I'm telling you now that it was RVS so that you know for sure. If you don't believe me, there isn't much else I can do.
Post by: Peradon on February 26, 2015, 06:23:35 pm
You also claimed I said it was universally bad to use quotes, which is not at all what I said, and you know it. I dont even see how it can be construed that way. It seriously looks like you are trying to pin something on me that I never said.Quotes are good to have. Quotes give context. They also make it clear what questions are about. Are you actually telling me that it was a bad idea to use quotes?That is not what I said. I said your quotes took up a huge amount of your post, making your post look big so that people couldnt say you were active lurking. Yes, quotes are good. But quotes can be used to hide non-content with big posts, which is what I'm saying you did. Now stop twisting my words.
How am I twisting your words? You said that it was bad that my post was mostly quotes and so I explained why I used quotes.
Post by: flabort on February 26, 2015, 08:10:03 pm
This was an important part of my post. How could you miss it?Latter question first:
If I'm doing something "really wrong", what is it? Are you just going to go with the opinion of others?
And they had clearly answered the question, and even if you didn't like the answer, the person who asked the question was was fine with it (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6056173#msg6056173) . What is wrong with "There is more than one right answer, depending on what your playstyle is any power is the most powerful", except for it doesn't tell you what power you can booby trap to kill that person off?Are you just going to go with the opinion of others?Hell no. I can certainly form my own opinions, and certainly didn't accuse you of active lurking on day 1 or bullcrap like that; I accused you of being narrow minded and attacking OSG for not giving enough information when he/she had already answered apparently to the satisfaction of the questioner.
RVS is a time for questions like that. It was still clearly in RVS.
If that weren't bad enough, you just couldn't let OSG go; once you had no excuse to follow the train of thought, you find a new reason to vote him (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6058212#msg6058212). Two reasons, even; "0 effort bandwagon" and "double standard", just in case someone could disprove one, you'd still have the other to fall back on. This is definitely tunneling.
I did say that is answer is what you were doing "really wrong", right, and not why I thought you were scum? OH, I DID? Yeah. I'm sorry if "Latter question first" was nonobvious, but I'm only saying if so many people find you scummy for all these multiple reasons, including the reasons I find you scummy for (which are NOT "everyone finds you scummy"), then you're doing something wrong.So you claim I'm scum because I "don't look like town" to you. Thank you for that amazing revelation. Anything other nonobvious things to add? /sarcasmIf I'm doing something "really wrong", what is it?What you are doing wrong is not trying hard enough to act how people expect a town player to act; whether you're town or scum, you've been pinging scum on several radars (I don't doubt that one or more votes/nonvoter-votes on you may be scum, but surely some of them are town)
*No, since it's still day 1 I still can't vote. I just thought I should reinforce that I'd be voting you if I could.
Post by: Persus13 on February 26, 2015, 08:52:19 pm
Flabort: Why haven't you responded to my giant post earlier? You've been posting in thread and responding to other people, why ignore me?
Oy! TDS*! Now you're deliberately misinterpreting my posts.How is he doing this?Why does the question asker being fine with the answer provided and TDS not being fine an issue? If you're trying to indirectly accuse TDS of rolefishing, be explicit about that or stop prancing around that accusation because it's making me really confused on why your attacking TDS over this unless that's what you're trying to do. Even then, why is Peradon not getting any flack for this either? Secondly, you view the post where TDS responded to pretty much everyone and FOSed 4 people but kept his vote on OGS as tunneling?And they had clearly answered the question, and even if you didn't like the answer, the person who asked the question was was fine with it (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6056173#msg6056173) . What is wrong with "There is more than one right answer, depending on what your playstyle is any power is the most powerful", except for it doesn't tell you what power you can booby trap to kill that person off?Are you just going to go with the opinion of others?Hell no. I can certainly form my own opinions, and certainly didn't accuse you of active lurking on day 1 or bullcrap like that; I accused you of being narrow minded and attacking OSG for not giving enough information when he/she had already answered apparently to the satisfaction of the questioner.
RVS is a time for questions like that. It was still clearly in RVS.
If that weren't bad enough, you just couldn't let OSG go; once you had no excuse to follow the train of thought, you find a new reason to vote him (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6058212#msg6058212). Two reasons, even; "0 effort bandwagon" and "double standard", just in case someone could disprove one, you'd still have the other to fall back on. This is definitely tunneling.So you're saying that people find TDS scummy because he's not playing the "town" way? Why do you feel like you need to give TDS advice anyway?I did say that is answer is what you were doing "really wrong", right, and not why I thought you were scum? OH, I DID? Yeah. I'm sorry if "Latter question first" was nonobvious, but I'm only saying if so many people find you scummy for all these multiple reasons, including the reasons I find you scummy for (which are NOT "everyone finds you scummy"), then you're doing something wrong.So you claim I'm scum because I "don't look like town" to you. Thank you for that amazing revelation. Anything other nonobvious things to add? /sarcasmIf I'm doing something "really wrong", what is it?What you are doing wrong is not trying hard enough to act how people expect a town player to act; whether you're town or scum, you've been pinging scum on several radars (I don't doubt that one or more votes/nonvoter-votes on you may be scum, but surely some of them are town)
*No, since it's still day 1 I still can't vote. I just thought I should reinforce that I'd be voting you if I could.
Post by: Persus13 on February 26, 2015, 08:53:35 pm
Oy! TDS*! Now you're deliberately misinterpreting my posts.How is he doing this?
Why does the question asker being fine with the answer provided and TDS not being fine an issue? If you're trying to indirectly accuse TDS of rolefishing, be explicit about that or stop prancing around that accusation because it's making me really confused on why your attacking TDS over this unless that's what you're trying to do. Even then, why is Peradon not getting any flack for this either? Secondly, you view the post where TDS responded to pretty much everyone and FOSed 4 people but kept his vote on OGS as tunneling?And they had clearly answered the question, and even if you didn't like the answer, the person who asked the question was was fine with it (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6056173#msg6056173) . What is wrong with "There is more than one right answer, depending on what your playstyle is any power is the most powerful", except for it doesn't tell you what power you can booby trap to kill that person off?Are you just going to go with the opinion of others?Hell no. I can certainly form my own opinions, and certainly didn't accuse you of active lurking on day 1 or bullcrap like that; I accused you of being narrow minded and attacking OSG for not giving enough information when he/she had already answered apparently to the satisfaction of the questioner.
RVS is a time for questions like that. It was still clearly in RVS.
If that weren't bad enough, you just couldn't let OSG go; once you had no excuse to follow the train of thought, you find a new reason to vote him (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6058212#msg6058212). Two reasons, even; "0 effort bandwagon" and "double standard", just in case someone could disprove one, you'd still have the other to fall back on. This is definitely tunneling.
So you're saying that people find TDS scummy because he's not playing the "town" way? Why do you feel like you need to give TDS advice anyway?I did say that is answer is what you were doing "really wrong", right, and not why I thought you were scum? OH, I DID? Yeah. I'm sorry if "Latter question first" was nonobvious, but I'm only saying if so many people find you scummy for all these multiple reasons, including the reasons I find you scummy for (which are NOT "everyone finds you scummy"), then you're doing something wrong.So you claim I'm scum because I "don't look like town" to you. Thank you for that amazing revelation. Anything other nonobvious things to add? /sarcasmIf I'm doing something "really wrong", what is it?What you are doing wrong is not trying hard enough to act how people expect a town player to act; whether you're town or scum, you've been pinging scum on several radars (I don't doubt that one or more votes/nonvoter-votes on you may be scum, but surely some of them are town)
*No, since it's still day 1 I still can't vote. I just thought I should reinforce that I'd be voting you if I could.
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2015, 09:03:36 pm
4maskwolf
Peradon [2] - Shakerag, TheDarkStar
Shakerag
Varee
origamiscienceguy
Flabort [1] - Persus13
Hector13
Tiruin
*TheDarkStar [3] - 4maskwolf, origamiscienceguy, Peradon
Deus Asmoth
*Persus13
No Lynch
*(Extended)
Hammer is 6 votes. Day ends in 22 hours or on the hammer.
List of Active Masks
Red, Green, Bronze, White, Gold, Silver, Blue, Orange, Brown, Cream, Purple, Turquoise, Yellow, Black, Violet
List of Dead Masks
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
Post by: Peradon on February 26, 2015, 09:07:45 pm
Quote
Even then, why is Peradon not getting any flack for this either?I'm pretty sure someone did mention this a while back. I pretty much said that it was not my intent to rolefish, and it was entirely for the sake of RQS.
So yeah.
NQT: Is that a mess up, or can 4mask actually vote?
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2015, 09:11:40 pm
NQT: Is that a mess up, or can 4mask actually vote?The vote count contains no votes from any player who has the 'unable-to-vote' flaw, I've double-checked.
Post by: flabort on February 26, 2015, 09:21:14 pm
Spoiler: Response to TDS (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Response to Persus (click to show/hide)
NQT: Is that a mess up, or can 4mask actually vote?He did say it's the first game of CYOM that he didn't take that flaw; or rather, he said it's the first game where he started with the power to vote.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2015, 09:50:22 pm
Last I checked it was on page 22. Now we're on page 24. [EXPLETIVE_DELETED]
So many [EXPLETIVE_DELETED] WoT's, and all this when I'm trying to post from an iPad.
Alright, time to catch up.
URRRRRRRRKKKK all of the shenanigans. Why is this day still going?
Damn it, Darky, at this point we're not going to gain any more information without a lynch happening.
Peradon, I just want you to know that you're next on my "vote off the island" list for blatant bandwagoning. You honest-to-God just took my argument about him being active-lurky, which was somewhat flawed to begin with (but the second-best lead I had at the time after his pressuring OSG for silly reasons) and turned it up to the point of ridiculousness. The only new thing you have contributed to this is pressuring him about misinterpreting something you wrote, which only came much later. On top of which, you failed a test I ran earlier but didn't comment on at the time (namely, you backed off of Shakerag just because I told you something about his meta, which may or may not be true and has nothing to do with your own experience, indicating wishy-washyness and desire to please, both scum traits). The ONLY reason I'm not voting your scummy hide right now is that TDS's blatant misrepresentation of people's points puts him a hairs-breadth ahead of you on the scumminess meter.
Post by: Tiruin on February 26, 2015, 09:56:04 pm
<_<
Alright, I am totally nearly indisposed here due to net issues and that I'll mostly likely probably not be able to connect during the weekends.
...Is it possible to ask for a temporary replacement for D1~ and then replace back when I get back? I did make notes on what recently occurred though, so anyone who has questions to me please ask (though I did lost my D1 question set...so I can't give back at the moment though)
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 26, 2015, 10:14:20 pm
On top of which, you failed a test I ran earlier but didn't comment on at the time (namely, you backed off of Shakerag just because I told you something about his meta, which may or may not be true and has nothing to do with your own experience, indicating wishy-washyness and desire to please, both scum traits).
I must ask, why didn't you comment at the time?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2015, 10:32:12 pm
Yeah, that one's on me. It happened just after I went to sleep (I turn off my devices at 9:00 PM PST and his post was 9:06) and an entire page of stuff happened over night, which caused me to overlook it. I only noticed it again when I went back to find where it was that he voted TDS, because I couldn't remember when that happened.On top of which, you failed a test I ran earlier but didn't comment on at the time (namely, you backed off of Shakerag just because I told you something about his meta, which may or may not be true and has nothing to do with your own experience, indicating wishy-washyness and desire to please, both scum traits).
I must ask, why didn't you comment at the time?
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 26, 2015, 10:55:18 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 27, 2015, 01:14:11 am
Yeah, I'm getting you and 4wolf mixed up...NQT: Is that a mess up, or can 4mask actually vote?He did say it's the first game of CYOM that he didn't take that flaw; or rather, he said it's the first game where he started with the power to vote.
Peradon, I just want you to know that you're next on my "vote off the island" list for blatant bandwagoning. You honest-to-God just took my argument about him being active-lurky, which was somewhat flawed to begin with (but the second-best lead I had at the time after his pressuring OSG for silly reasons) and turned it up to the point of ridiculousness.What am I supposed to do when I agree with someone? Am I not supposed to vote for fear of looking like I'm bandwagoning? I think I should vote based on the arguments that other people are making. I thought your active lurking theory was getting to something. So, I voted based on it. Why is this inherantly scummy?
On top of which, you failed a test I ran earlier but didn't comment on at the time (namely, you backed off of Shakerag just because I told you something about his meta, which may or may not be true and has nothing to do with your own experience, indicating wishy-washyness and desire to please, both scum traits).Both you and Persus indicated that Shakerag is normally sarcastic. After that, I looked back on some threads to confirm, and you guys were right, he is normally like that. I didnt just take your word on it, and I'm not being wishy-washy. Your test was based on an asumption that I wouldnt do my homework and check for myself. I did check for myself, thus your test had no relevence.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 27, 2015, 10:21:55 am
I will now quote what you said when you changed your vote:
Well, everyone is saying that Shakerag is just extremely sarcastic, so I guess I'll Unvote. But still, I think he needs to stop being like that.Your reasoning for unvoting was stated as "everyone is saying that he is sarcastic" (with everyone being two people).
Additionally, you've cemented my view by not going after the actually incorrect part of my post, which was claiming that you added nothing new. You did, in that very same post. You started talking about the big post he had just made shortly beforehand, which as far as I know nobody else had commented on as being a method of active-lurking. The problem here is that this means that either you're not paying attention to your own scumhunting, which is a problem, or you are so worried about saving your own skin you can't even find logical fallacies in my arguments. Either way is not a good thing.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 27, 2015, 10:31:25 am
Post by: Shakerag on February 27, 2015, 11:16:11 am
pfp@shakerag:That's interesting, because the traditional Toony Tunnel was seen as a method to root out scum, as I recall.
I believe tunnelling is scummy because I have been accused of being scum for tunnelling before.
Quote
I don'tncare if it's your meta or not. It's still scummy.I don't care if tunneling is part of my meta or not either. I asked you why you believed tunneling was not part of my meta, as what you originally said seemed to imply that my meta did not include tunneling.
Quote
No, I'm not saying everyone else has poor reasons, I'm saying he's doing something really wrong if so many people are convinced he's scum.You literally said: "Man, I don't know how you managed to top the charts of so many people." That seems to imply you're not sure why so many other people find TDS scummy. Is that not what you intended?
Deus Asmoth:
Just because you can't vote, doesn't mean you get a free pass to not participate. Who would you be voting for right now if you could and why?
Varee:
Well.... I don't have a large read list to offer yet, I think mybplay style rely more on using action and less on trying to judge people as am not very good at it. I think my vote is gone, someone might steal it or something.Day would have ended without that last extend, and we haven't heard a peep out of you. What do you think of 4mask's play? Do you think his "tests" are good scumhunting, or do you think he's scum trying to trick town into stumbling into a mislynch?
Anyway I will try compile a list before the lynch.
Peradon:
Oh come on. I was using hyperbole, and you know it.Maybe you should have used [hyperbole][/hyperbole] tags. I guess you must think that hyperbole is okay to use in mafia but sarcasm isn't, eh? Allow me to revisit an old post of yours for my amusement, emphasis mine:
Shakerag: First off, I dont think hyperbole should ever be used in mafia. I analyse a post, assuming you mean every word you say. Hyperbole misleads the town and does nothing but muddy the water. From the way you act, you still seem like scum, so my vote stays right where it is. From now on, if you dont want me to vote for you, dont be hyperbolic.So, in reference to the italicized part: Double standard or hypocrisy?
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 27, 2015, 11:21:50 am
Peradon:Oh come on. I was using hyperbole, and you know it.Maybe you should have used [hyperbole][/hyperbole] tags. I guess you must think that hyperbole is okay to use in mafia but sarcasm isn't, eh?
Shakerag, you didn't use [sarcasm][/sarcasm] during your posts. Just because people knew that you were being sarcastic doesn't mean you can pretend he wasn't.
Post by: Shakerag on February 27, 2015, 11:56:31 am
*facepalm*
Peradon:Oh come on. I was using hyperbole, and you know it.Maybe you should have used [hyperbole][/hyperbole] tags. I guess you must think that hyperbole is okay to use in mafia but sarcasm isn't, eh?
Shakerag, you didn't use [sarcasm][/sarcasm] during your posts. Just because people knew that you were being sarcastic doesn't mean you can pretend he wasn't.
I know that.
That. Was. Sarcasm. You. Dolt.
Post by: Peradon on February 27, 2015, 01:19:38 pm
Additionally, you've cemented my view by not going after the actually incorrect part of my post, which was claiming that you added nothing new.You made an allusion to that post by saying that I turned the active-lurking theory up to the point of rediculousness. There was only one way it could be thought that I turned it up, and that was via the quote post. Thus, I assumed that you were taking that post into account. So of course I'm not going to mention the quote-post, which you were saying was rediculous for me to attribute to active lurking.
4makwolf, you seem to be trying to set up traps for me to fall into. If I has mentioned that post, you would have said I'm not paying enough attention to your post, and thus am scum. But, if I didnt mention it, you would say what you said above, and thus say I'm scum. You are trying to trap me into a corner with not way out.
Are you seriously still on this? Ugh. Hyperbole is obvious. Sarcasm isnt.
Peradon:Oh come on. I was using hyperbole, and you know it.Maybe you should have used [hyperbole][/hyperbole] tags. I guess you must think that hyperbole is okay to use in mafia but sarcasm isn't, eh? Allow me to revisit an old post of yours for my amusement, emphasis mine:Shakerag: First off, I dont think hyperbole should ever be used in mafia. I analyse a post, assuming you mean every word you say. Hyperbole misleads the town and does nothing but muddy the water. From the way you act, you still seem like scum, so my vote stays right where it is. From now on, if you dont want me to vote for you, dont be hyperbolic.So, in reference to the italicized part: Double standard or hypocrisy?
Post by: Shakerag on February 27, 2015, 01:53:00 pm
My asshole-ish snark aside, you still missed something.Shakerag: First off, I dont think hyperbole should ever be used in mafia. I analyse a post, assuming you mean every word you say. Hyperbole misleads the town and does nothing but muddy the water. From the way you act, you still seem like scum, so my vote stays right where it is. From now on, if you dont want me to vote for you, dont be hyperbolic.So, in reference to the italicized part: Double standard or hypocrisy?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 27, 2015, 02:10:23 pm
Nothing. I wouldn't have mentioned it, although I would have addressed other parts of the post. However, it would have eased my doubts about your loyalty to the town somewhat.
Actually, by "turning it up to the point of ridiculousness" I'm referring to the fact that as far as I can tell the active-lurking allegation is your only beef with DarkStar and it has been pointed out by several players that one-two RL days into the game is an entirely unreasonable time to start throwing around active-lurking allegations.
You're grasping at straws, bud, at least with your allegations that I'm trying to set you up in no-win situations. It's an entirely unprovable allegation, entirely silly, and not at all reasonable. Sorry Peradon, but you just bought yourself a trip to lynchtown. Darky will have to wait. He at least has brought some reasonable defenses against various accusations, even if he proceeds to be scummy while doing them by misrepresenting other people's points.
Post by: Peradon on February 27, 2015, 02:43:07 pm
Peradon: I'm not setting up "traps for you to fall into" in the kind of no-win situation you're talking about. You're actually entirely wrong about what I would have done had you addressed the fallacy in my statement. For posterity, here's what would have happened:I seriously doubt you wouldnt have mentioned. By the way you have been acting, and "testing" me, you would have jumped all over it. But, you are correct, it is an entirely unprovable situation, as it deals with hypothetical reaction scenarios.
Nothing. I wouldn't have mentioned it, although I would have addressed other parts of the post. However, it would have eased my doubts about your loyalty to the town somewhat.
Ok, I'm going to approach this from a different angle. These tests are designed to trip scum up. The problem with your tests is that there is the human element involved. For instance, in the first one, you didnt expect me to actually look for myself as to whether shakerag is normaly sarcastic. Doing your homework is a pro-town move. Thus, your trap triggers both scum and town, and thus does not provide any evidence.
Your second test was based on sentence embeded in a paragraph with several other accusations. I was focusing on the accusations, not the one sentence. Thus it was set up to fail in the first place.
Ok, so I know unless some of the lurkers come out of the woodworks to vote for TDS, I'm going to get lynched. So, I'm going to go ahead and post my reads for analysis when I flip town:
Most Scummy
-------------
TDS: For active lurking and evasion of posts. He doesnt even give a defence for the evasions.
4maskwolf: For setting up tests against me that were doomed to fail, then providing them as evidence against me.
Varee: For pushing a no-lynch for more time to investigate, then not investigating when the day got extended.
OSG:Still here for a hunch, though that hunch is beginning to go away.
Hector: Seems to be tunneling a bit on TDS, but I guess we all have been doing that a bit.
-------------
Nuetrality Line:Shakerag, Tiruin, DA, Persus, and anyone else lurking really bad.
-------------
Flabort: For previously mentioned question that was directed at me. I'll reveal this at the last minute.
Man.... I have a lot of suspects...
Anyway, I'll reveal my powers and such if there is no chance that I get saved. For now, my fate is in your hands.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 27, 2015, 03:00:13 pm
So, I'm going to go ahead and post my reads for analysis when I flip town:You sound like you are giving up. Or trying to guilt-trip us into unvoting you. This is extremely anti-town as a townie would know he is innocent and try to persuade us rather than do this.
...
Anyway, I'll reveal my powers and such if there is no chance that I get saved. For now, my fate is in your hands.
Unvote TDS
Vote Peradon
Post by: Peradon on February 27, 2015, 03:04:54 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 27, 2015, 03:10:44 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 27, 2015, 03:16:04 pm
Did you actually read other games to see if Shakerag is normally that sarcastic? I don't know. Only you know that. I can't confirm or deny you doing that. All I have to go on in that regard is what you said about your unvote, which was basically "since you guys say that Shakerag is like that" without even the slightest hint that you had done your own research.
If you are town, I do sincerely apologize, and no matter your alignment I hope you don't hold it against me in the long run. I'm not normally this critical and aggressive: I reserve those aspects of me for mafia games.
PPE x2: OSG is providing good advice, although tunneling isn't necessarily a scum thing to do or a town thing to do. Toonyman and mastahcheese are both known for their use of the tunnel as both scum and town.
I'm also not saying "you're wrong" and leaving it at that. At this point, though, I'm not sure if you could convince me not to lynch you, because it's late in the day and at this point we need to see a lynch. In the end, even a town lynch provides the town with information, which they can then capitalize on in the upcoming days. This setup is also heavily townsided, so a town lynch is less detrimental than it might otherwise be. I'm not saying we can lynch with abandon, but I'm confident enough in you and TDS's scumminess that I'm going to push a lynch on one of the two of you today, even though there's a chance I could be wrong. Because that chance is always there, no matter the setup.
Post by: Peradon on February 27, 2015, 03:28:10 pm
His argument is opinion based as well. If you think he was tunneling you (he kind of is) you should have kept arguing until people noticed him tunneling you. You would just have to convince enough people off of you and you would be in no danger. 4maskwolf can't lynch you by himself. Instead, you just gave up and basically said "you'll regret this when you find out I'm town" which is not in the towns benefit whether you are scum or town. TheDarkStar has been constantly trying to defend himself while you just sit here and quit.I'm not quitting. I'm trying to get as much info out as possible, thus my reads. Plus, I offered the argument above my reads.
And no, I didnt see him tunneling me. I'm angry with him because of his fake tests that no one cares about. I point it out, and all he has to do is say "Thats not what I meant" and my argument is gone. He has set up the perfect lynch on me, because I cannot combat him on that no matter what I do.
.....So yeah, maybe I am giving up a bit.
Ok then.
LETS DUKE IT OUT, 4MASK!
What makes me scummier than TDS? Where is my scummyness really? All your mentioning right now are the tests. So give me something that is definitivly scummy!
Spoiler: Music going through my head right now (click to show/hide)
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 27, 2015, 03:44:04 pm
You have had a week at this point. Why haven't you voted?
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 27, 2015, 03:45:28 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 27, 2015, 03:50:46 pm
And, don't you dare extend. There are enough conversations to make an educated vote.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Shakerag on February 27, 2015, 03:55:04 pm
To everyone who hasn't voted:Do you know of other people who can vote but haven't?
You have had a week at this point. Why haven't you voted?
NQT: Votecount, please.
Post by: Peradon on February 27, 2015, 03:56:43 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on February 27, 2015, 04:10:36 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 27, 2015, 04:13:08 pm
I'm going to say that I don't think that Peradon or TDS are scum. It seems more like they're victims of circumstance to me and I'd be inclined to show mercy to Peradon on account of it being his second game. At the minute, I'm most suspicious of Varee and Deathsword. Deathsword because his posts have been very short for the most part, Varee for the same reason and because no lynching is not a pro town action.Deathsword died...
Post by: flabort on February 27, 2015, 04:23:32 pm
flabort:How the hell is a "toony tunnel" suposed to work? He badgers the guy until he gives up or confesses? In either case, the result is the same: the guy he tunneled would end up dead. I don't see how that finds scum unless Toony happens to get lucky.
That's interesting, because the traditional Toony Tunnel was seen as a method to root out scum, as I recall.QuotesnipYou literally said: "Man, I don't know how you managed to top the charts of so many people." That seems to imply you're not sure why so many other people find TDS scummy. Is that not what you intended?
Tunneling detracts from your scum hunting by making you narrow-minded, instead of being able to consider one possibility you're focused on MAKING your reality into the truth. This does not make sense to be part of a person's meta because (trust me, I know this from exp) it makes them a bad town-player and a suspicious scum player.
As for what I meant, perhaps it would have been better to say "it is unbelievable that you'd be playing so bad that so many people suspect you".
Post by: Deus Asmoth on February 27, 2015, 04:25:01 pm
gods damn it, why do I keep forgetting who's dead in these games...I'm going to say that I don't think that Peradon or TDS are scum. It seems more like they're victims of circumstance to me and I'd be inclined to show mercy to Peradon on account of it being his second game. At the minute, I'm most suspicious of Varee and Deathsword. Deathsword because his posts have been very short for the most part, Varee for the same reason and because no lynching is not a pro town action.Deathsword died...
Post by: hector13 on February 27, 2015, 04:28:55 pm
You sound like you are giving up. Or trying to guilt-trip us into unvoting you. This is extremely anti-town as a townie would know he is innocent and try to persuade us rather than do this.
Unvote TDS
Vote Peradon
Spoiler: Your reads list (click to show/hide)
Whoa there, sunshine. This smacks of a quick excuse for getting on a bandwagon. Perry was 4th most scummy in your reads list, TDS was #1, is AtE really enough for you to propel him up three places over everyone including your number 1 scum read?
You know this is Perry's second game; TDS is more experienced than he is so obviously he's going to fight to the last. 4mask also changed their vote ~6 hours before day end. That's ultra suspect in my eyes.
Both you and 4mask have been on TDS for most of the game, why the sudden change of heart now, so close to the day end, giving Perry pretty much zero time to defend himself?
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 27, 2015, 04:36:24 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 27, 2015, 04:40:18 pm
True, I did give up for a minute there, but when you pointed it out, I snapped right back out of that, because you were entirely right, I should be fighting to defend myself.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 27, 2015, 04:41:58 pm
Anyway, I'll reveal my powers and such if there is no chance that I get saved. For now, my fate is in your hands.This looks like guilt-tripping to me. You are basically saying "if I get lynched, it's your fault"
Post by: hector13 on February 27, 2015, 04:42:28 pm
4mask was arguing with peradon since yesterday. I thought that peradon was innocent until I saw him try to guilt-trip 4mask into voting off of him. To me, this is the most scummy thing done this game.
More scummy than TDS's entire game!?
I am literally aghast that one thing that your 4th scumread can do, short of telling everyone they are scum, propels them above someone you've been voting for pretty much the entirety of D1.
You claimed in the previous BM game that you played a game based on logic. I want you to explain the logic that Perry's singular scummy action is so much more scummy than TDS's game to this point.
Post by: Peradon on February 27, 2015, 04:44:03 pm
Post by: Shakerag on February 27, 2015, 04:53:16 pm
Deus Asmoth: While I'm not keen on meta arguments, I can see that (outside of this game) it looks like Varee suggested a no lynch on D1 three times, and was town two of those times. Given that suggesting a D1 no lynch around these parts is Highly Frowned On wouldn't Varee catching flak for suggesting a D1 no lynch make him a victim of circumstance as well?
gods damn it, why do I keep forgetting who's dead in these games...Pay attention more, maybe? Given that you listed two people who you suspect and one of them is dead (and has been for a while), you're not exactly filling me with confidence that you're actively participating in this game at all.
I'd be inclined to show mercy to Peradon on account of it being his second game.Why? If he wants to join the big boy/girl games, we're going to treat him like a big boy/girl. Kid gloves are for the beginner's mafia games.
Post by: Peradon on February 27, 2015, 04:59:03 pm
Peradon: My answer is going to depend on your response to my outstanding question to you. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6066793#msg6066793)I thought I did answer that. Basically, hyperbole and sarcasm are different. Sarcasm can be misunderstood a whole lot easier, especially the amount you put on earlier. Hyperbole is a whole lot easier to spot. But I see what you mean. I'll refrain from using hyperbole in the future.
Post by: Peradon on February 27, 2015, 05:15:41 pm
Post by: notquitethere on February 27, 2015, 06:08:58 pm
4maskwolf
Peradon [4] - Shakerag, TheDarkStar, origamiscienceguy, 4maskwolf
Shakerag
Varee
origamiscienceguy
Flabort [1] - Persus13
Hector13
Tiruin
*TheDarkStar [1] - Peradon
Deus Asmoth
*Persus13
No Lynch
*(Extended)
Hammer is 6 votes. Day ends in 1 hour or on the hammer.
List of Active Masks
Red, Green, Bronze, White, Gold, Silver, Blue, Orange, Brown, Cream, Purple, Turquoise, Yellow, Black, Violet
List of Dead Masks
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
Post by: Peradon on February 27, 2015, 06:10:48 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 27, 2015, 06:22:26 pm
You aren't much scummier than TDS, you're pretty much on par with each other. OSG jumped WAY up there for bandwagoning and buddying, but he's still behind the two of you.
Your scumminess is all over the place, from bandwagoning and wishy-washyness to the silliness of your OMGUS against me. You basically had me jump from second-towniest to second-scummiest over my choice of tests. Perhaps my test could have been better, but they were what I could think of at the time.
Also, there is no such thing as "definitively scummy". Scumminess is what we make of it, and what I find scummy might be completely normal behavior from another person's point of view.
Lemme see anything else directed at me... apparently not. Huh. I thought there was for some reason.
I'll try to post a reads list as soon as I can when the new day starts, my reads have changed since last time and will change more depending on Peradon's flip.
Post by: Peradon on February 27, 2015, 06:29:15 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 27, 2015, 06:53:33 pm
So your saying that if it werent due to your inherantly flawed tests, the only thing you have on me a an OMGUS(Buzzword!) and a bandwagon? You yourself said that I shouldnt hold back from voting for fear of being labled a bandwagoner. So really, you only have an OMGUS on me? And that somehow beats evasion of questions?You're misinterpreting what I said about bandwagoning. You're bandwagoning was egregious and a major scumtell, and your defense keeps coming back to an impossible to defend point which is that my tests were flawed. They weren't flawed, they were subjective. EVERYTHING in this game is subjective. If you dislike my conclusions I drew from them, so be it, but in my mind, the way I see things, they gave me a scummy reading off of you.
Post by: Peradon on February 27, 2015, 06:58:21 pm
Also, you're a sly dog TDS, for getting out of a lynch like that.
Post by: notquitethere on February 27, 2015, 06:59:47 pm
Everyone is silent.
"Well, there's an easy way to do this," says another monk, "who has the largest stomach?"
Everyone takes two steps away from the rotund figure in the Cream mask. His robes are red with white fur trimmings, and he carries a large sack over-flowing with presents. Peradon, the selfish santa.
"Look! Is that a djinn?" shouts Peradon, pointing to the far corner of the marquee tent.
Everyone turns around and when they turn back Peradon has left the marquee tent. The remaining monks as one call upon the name of the mud to swallow the fleeing man. A few hours later, night fallen, and Peradon's smothered corpse is retrieved from the mud. In his pockets was an expired miller-license. Only the most noble can join that much maligned order and he was thus post-humously ruled out as a suspect.
The sun quickly rises and the monks reassemble for the next day of investigations.
Peradon is dead. He was town.
Spoiler: Peradon (click to show/hide)
On Day 1, Turquoise targeted Gold.
(Note: lynch triggers before the post-lynch effects, so Peradon's Blatant, Broadcaster and Mole flaws do not trigger on D1.)
Spoiler: Final Vote Count (click to show/hide)
Everyone who is not Dense, gain +1 xp. Everyone who is Insidious gain +1xp. If you met the conditions for Bloodythirsty, gain +1xp. If you are Simple, make sure you do not gain more than +1xp. The thread will be locked while lynch triggered effects are implemented.
Post by: notquitethere on February 27, 2015, 07:57:12 pm
Santa Claus Has Left Town
The monks stared at each other across the table with the list of suspects. The rain continued to batter down on the roof of the marquee tent. Nothing had changed in a day except for the fact that there were two fresh corpses and a whole lot of questions.
Votes
4maskwolf
Shakerag
Varee
origamiscienceguy
Flabort
Hector13
Tiruin
TheDarkStar
Deus Asmoth
Persus13
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, White, Gold, Silver, Blue, Orange, Brown, Purple, Turquoise, Yellow, Black, Violet
Dead Masks
Spoiler: Cream (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Updated List of Costs (click to show/hide)
The day ends 12AM GMT on the 5th, or on a hammer of 6 votes. The kill action won't come into effect until Tuesday 12AM. If you've got an action queued, give me another hour or so to process it before you bombard me with PMs.
Post by: hector13 on February 27, 2015, 07:58:15 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 27, 2015, 08:00:23 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 27, 2015, 08:00:30 pm
Post by: Peradon on February 27, 2015, 08:05:04 pm
Spoiler: My "Bah" Post (click to show/hide)
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 27, 2015, 08:09:04 pm
I am actually really pissed off at myself right now for not listening to the little voice in my head that said "you know, Peradon has a good point, he's not actually done all that much, you should probably be lynching TheDarkStar", but I was so... damn... sure...
Urk. My nature works against me most of the time...
Alright, I need to REALLY rethink my game plan here, since my vote is my ONLY weapon in this game and I just used it poorly...
Gimme a while to figure stuff out.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 27, 2015, 08:14:57 pm
Peradon, on the other hand, seemed fine by me during his argument with 4mask. I didn't see him being guilty with his business with shakerag, but his sudden guilt tactics when he decided look like he was giving up can in no way benefit the town. Either he was scum trying to get out of a vote with a guilt-trip, or he was a townie who really had given up. In my mind, peradon's guilt trip could not benefit the town in any way, while I could have possibly been mistaken on TDS.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on February 27, 2015, 08:34:47 pm
Deus Asmoth: While I'm not keen on meta arguments, I can see that (outside of this game) it looks like Varee suggested a no lynch on D1 three times, and was town two of those times. Given that suggesting a D1 no lynch around these parts is Highly Frowned On wouldn't Varee catching flak for suggesting a D1 no lynch make him a victim of circumstance as well?No, it makes Varee someone who persists in doing something which he knows is a bad idea for reasons beyond me.
Varee, since you've apparently gone for no lynches on day 1 three times before and are well aware that it's generally not a good idea, why did you try to get one anyway?
Origami, that:
seemed like a pretty big stretch for a guilt trip read. Was there anything else that made you thing Peradon was scum or did you decide to vote for him based off two sentences?Anyway, I'll reveal my powers and such if there is no chance that I get saved. For now, my fate is in your hands.This looks like guilt-tripping to me. You are basically saying "if I get lynched, it's your fault"
Mask, I have a bad feeling about you. I don't know why yet.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 27, 2015, 08:38:12 pm
Ok, so I know unless some of the lurkers come out of the woodworks to vote for TDS, I'm going to get lynched. So, I'm going to go ahead and post my reads for analysis when I flip town:
This as well. "when I flip town" is another instance where he is guilt-tripping us. Or that is how I saw it. And he is also giving up in this sentence which i find anti-town.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 27, 2015, 08:38:52 pm
Naughty List (Scummy/Lurky, arranged in order of scummiest to least-scummy-but-still-scummy-or-lurky):
Origamiscienceguy: Buddying, last-hours bandwagoning, the works. First scum pick right now. I'll explain my buddying accusation in a bit.
TheDarkStar: Possibly intentional misconstruing of other player's points, but hasn't posted enough recently for me to have a good judge on him. However... idk, if it weren't for how rarely he posts it almost feels like he intentionally ignored the last RL day with all the hijinks around Peradon and just lurked his way to the next day in order to avoid drawing anyone's ire.
Varee: The whole no-lynch thing still bugs me, but I'll have to look back and confirm what was said earlier about him often proposing D1 no-lynches.
Shakerag: His play has picked up a little bit recently, but much of the first day was spent being sarcastic, having a debate about sarcasm, and being sarcastic in a debate about sarcasm. I'd like to see more play from him
Persus13 and Tiruin: ALL of the lurking. While they both have RL excuses, I'd really like to see them play.
Deus Asmoth: Fairly lurky as well, barely any posts recently. More posts towards the beginning of the game, though, so pretty close to neutral.
Nice List (Neutral and Town, no particular order):
hector13: idk what to make of him, honestly. Neutral read for now, his play is fairly solid but because he has solid play as scum too this means very little.
flabort: I'm... actually not sure what he's been up to recently, I'll have to check on that. I kinda did tunnel in on TDS and Peradon, in retrospect. Neutral read.
Of course, this is pending a more thorough review of the thread, which I definitely need to do...
URK I JUST LOST WHAT I WAS TYPING UP!!!!!
Okay, back to square one on this part.
OSG Buddying accusation:
4maskwolf: best scumhunting I've seen in this game so far.The end of his readslist. This is NOT where I get the accusation from, he can put me wherever he likes on his readslist. It is merely included as a point of reference.
Towniest
Unvote TDSVotes Peradon suspiciously soon after I do, as well as sealing Peradon's fate. Whatever chance there was of Peradon not being lynched disappears. If he turns out to be scum, this also implicates TDS as a possible scum partner due to the speed OSG jumped OFF the TDS train. Once again, this isn't damning evidence or even evidence at all taken by itself, it's just another point of reference.
Vote Peradon
4mask was arguing with peradon since yesterday.NOOOOOOPPPPPE HOLD IT RIGHT THERE.
This is what perked my ears up when I read it. He answers a question for me, almost casually. Hello, it's my question. You don't know if I'm scum or not, and you just answered a question I could have made a slip-up on.
IDK, maybe I'm just making a mountain out of a molehill, but... I feel like he's trying to ingratiate himself with me because so many people had me up high on their reads lists, which is a definitively scum thing to do.
So, origamiscienceguy, why did you answer for me when I'm perfectly capable of answering my own accusations and questions?
Mask, I have a bad feeling about you. I don't know why yet.Figure out why, and follow it. I enjoy mafia the most when I have to defend myself. Except for the times I get overwhelmed by it, but that hasn't happened in a CYOM yet.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 27, 2015, 08:43:55 pm
Both you and 4mask have been on TDS for most of the game, why the sudden change of heart now, so close to the day end, giving Perry pretty much zero time to defend himself?I was answering this question. It was addressed to me. This wasn't your question.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 27, 2015, 08:44:35 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 27, 2015, 08:48:57 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on February 27, 2015, 08:52:35 pm
... since my vote is my ONLY weapon in this game and I just used it poorly...I think this is the source of at least some of my unease. Why say this when you can easily get a weapon other than your vote, or was your intention to imply that you hadn't done exactly that?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 27, 2015, 08:58:47 pm
I was mentioning you to point out that I was uninterested in your previous argument with Peradon. I was voting for him because of his giving up and his guilt-tripping, not because of whatever shenanigans were going on between him and shakerag. I was voting for a completely different reason. I think that that I made that very clear. I had a specific set of grievances against him that you did not have, so you can't claim that I just copycatted you.I never claimed you copycatted me at all, but thank you for explaining.
unvote, tentatively.
Well, I just received two toys that I'm going to sell momentarily, but I'm running a personal defense build rather than an offensive or investigative build. It's a very intentional choice to force myself to rely on my mind rather than on a set of powers to win the game, very much the way I ended up playing the first CYOM (although my initial build was vigilante in that game). I know first-hand how much the chaos of the game can mess with plans, so I didn't make any long-term ones before the game started. And because of the way I made my build, it would be... inefficient, to say the least, to try to build myself differently at this stage in the game.... since my vote is my ONLY weapon in this game and I just used it poorly...I think this is the source of at least some of my unease. Why say this when you can easily get a weapon other than your vote, or was your intention to imply that you hadn't done exactly that?
Post by: Varee on February 27, 2015, 09:29:34 pm
I think I am bad at analysing post and stuff so I tend to be mor efocus on using the role to my advantage than trying to guess what people roles are from there posts as I feel most good player doesnt play any differently wheather they are town or scum.
Also I suggest other to maybe keep clense as it negate poison and infection, leaving only kill and boobytrap as a threat. It is only 3 points to make it into free self clense and keep yourself clean/ get rid of flaws.
So now Everyone : What power should be hand out after this?
Also PPE, I havnt read though all the last day of post yet so if you posted me aquestion, I will answer it after I read them.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 27, 2015, 09:35:16 pm
Quick question: are you going to hand out any more powers today, or can I sell the stuff now?
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 27, 2015, 09:39:22 pm
Post by: Varee on February 27, 2015, 09:41:55 pm
Also I can mostly do it once a day .... I might need to think of a way to do it more ....
Post by: hector13 on February 27, 2015, 09:46:01 pm
The way I see it, TDS looked scummy to me because of his lack of scumhuning up to the point when he attacked me. After which he started showing more initiative. His frequent misinterpretation of posts, along with his actions at the beginning of the game kept my vote on him. As he explained, his vote on me was RVS related. I don't believe him, but it is a possibility. If that were the case, he could just be a townie who just sounded a bit more obtuse then he meant.
Peradon, on the other hand, seemed fine by me during his argument with 4mask. I didn't see him being guilty with his business with shakerag, but his sudden guilt tactics when he decided look like he was giving up can in no way benefit the town. Either he was scum trying to get out of a vote with a guilt-trip, or he was a townie who really had given up. In my mind, peradon's guilt trip could not benefit the town in any way, while I could have possibly been mistaken on TDS.
I think the fact that Peradon had basically went from being home into D2 a few hours before the deadline to the lynch guy, and that this is his second game, it's understandable that he would feel a bit down from it all. He wouldn't really know how to defend himself over the course of a few hours, and even if he did manage that, there's no guarantee that anyone would vote for someone else to not have him lynched given how little time there was before the deadline.
I'd be upset in that situation too, but he snapped out of it after your vote, but you left it on him. It doesn't matter anyway, since 4mask buggered off to class and they couldn't have the showdown Perry wanted, needed to defend himself.
Even if you do consider it scummy, I think the other players in the game are experienced enough to not be swayed by an emotional plea. The AtE may have been anti-town, but there is no way I can see that as being scummy enough to vote for him. As 4mask said, that pretty much guaranteed his lynch.
Vote Origami
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 27, 2015, 09:59:13 pm
If he wants to join the big boy/girl games, we're going to treat him like a big boy/girl. Kid gloves are for the beginner's mafia games.This is only my 3rd full game and I certainly don't want to be held by the hand and given second chances for my mistakes, I'd rather fail and learn from my mistakes. During the troll begginners mafia game, what I was trying didn't work, so I learned and have adapted my strategy in this game. Just because Peradon snapped out of his attitude, it doesn't mean he never had that attitude. If I just said "I am scum," but then said, "Nevermind, I'm not scum," It doesn't change the fact that I said it. I would still end up getting lynched. I would have to face the consequences of my actions, but afterward, I would learn not to do that again.
Hector,Why didn't you vote?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 27, 2015, 10:15:21 pm
And in the spirit of sharing what little I know, I can tell you that as of 2-21-15 at 6:27 PST, the person in the red mask had 0xp floating around. Which means about jackshit, but what have you. Scan is a pretty worthless power, but I didn't take it because of any delusions of effectiveness.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 27, 2015, 10:18:14 pm
BTW, NQT, do NPC receive EXP for surviving the day?
Post by: notquitethere on February 27, 2015, 10:43:13 pm
"What are you talking about?" replied another, very much aware that nobody could see the grin stretched under their mask...
"You don't know?"
"Know what?" (snigger)
Votes
4maskwolf
Shakerag
Varee
origamiscienceguy - [1] - Hector13
Flabort
Hector13
Tiruin
TheDarkStar
Deus Asmoth
Persus13
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, White, Gold, Silver, Blue, Orange, Brown, Purple, Turquoise, Yellow, Black, Violet
Dead Masks
Spoiler: Cream (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
The day ends 12AM GMT on the 5th, or on a hammer of 6 votes. The kill action won't come into effect until Tuesday 12AM.
BTW, NQT, do NPC receive EXP for surviving the day?Yes.
Post by: flabort on February 27, 2015, 11:59:23 pm
So first things first, can anyone find a post by TDS more recent than This one (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6065019#msg6065019)? It would seem to me that in the 24 hours after he asked those questions, he just clammed up and the vote swung from him to Peradon. I mean, 24 hours isn't very long when the day lasts a week, but isn't it weird that when he's active people accuse him of lurking, and then when he lurks everyone just shuts up about it and lynches someone else? Actually, that's not all that suspicious, it's more telling of the people who moved their votes. Unvote, Vote OSG, because honestly I don't believe that you weren't trying to wagon when changing your vote. It came after 4mask voted, which actually changed who was going to be lynched; you moving your vote did very little except for making it look like you really wanted Peradon dead, and perhaps you had been voting TDS to bus him, or maybe because he's not part of your team and you just wanted a towny dead. Either way, you didn't want Peradon slipping away so when TDS was no longer the wagon of choice you leaped onto the Peradon wagon; if I were in your situation, I wouldn't have moved my vote.
-snip-Hey, what's up, Shakerag?
I notice you're bugging someone about a missed question (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6067143#msg6067143) here... but you just missed one of mine.
So, tell me, how is tunneling supposed to catch scum and be town-sided? Don't be vague about it either.
flabort: I'm... actually not sure what he's been up to recently, I'll have to check on that. I kinda did tunnel in on TDS and Peradon, in retrospect. Neutral read.Mostly arguing (via pfp) with TDS and Shakerag as to whether tunneling is considered scummy or not. Which you just admitted to doing, 4mask.
Post by: hector13 on February 28, 2015, 12:01:23 am
I agree with Shakerag's quote here:If he wants to join the big boy/girl games, we're going to treat him like a big boy/girl. Kid gloves are for the beginner's mafia games.This is only my 3rd full game and I certainly don't want to be held by the hand and given second chances for my mistakes, I'd rather fail and learn from my mistakes. During the troll begginners mafia game, what I was trying didn't work, so I learned and have adapted my strategy in this game. Just because Peradon snapped out of his attitude, it doesn't mean he never had that attitude. If I just said "I am scum," but then said, "Nevermind, I'm not scum," It doesn't change the fact that I said it. I would still end up getting lynched. I would have to face the consequences of my actions, but afterward, I would learn not to do that again.
Hector,Why didn't you vote?
I was Cursed with a Guilty Conscience, and wasn't comfortable voting on D1 with that given the statistics involved (more likely to be voting a townie) but it has been corrected. After Varee's gift and the xp for the day, I was able to buy it off, so don't have that problem now.
Also, agreeing with Shakerag addresses exactly nothing of what I said. What I don't understand is how you can say TDS might not be scum, despite his play thus far. You claim in your post that the only thing that bothered you about TDS was his vote, which may have been RVS related, and then seemed to imply that the rest of his play was scummy. Why is his days of misinterpreting everyone less scummy than a new player's reflexive AtE?
Don't give me that nonsense about learning from your mistakes either. Perry changed his behaviour the moment you brought it up, so he was ready and willing to play the big boy/girl game, but because you and 4mask changed your vote at the last minute, he wasn't given the opportunity to defend himself. If 4mask is scum, he at least put some effort into making his vote look organic, so I'm willing to overlook him for the time being, but you just couldn't wait to seal the deal. You're either bad scum, 3rd party or selfish town, none of which is good for the town at large.
You have a shit-ton of work to do to make me town read you, Origami.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on February 28, 2015, 09:08:32 am
So first things first, can anyone find a post by TDS more recent than This one (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6065019#msg6065019)? It would seem to me that in the 24 hours after he asked those questions, he just clammed up and the vote swung from him to Peradon. I mean, 24 hours isn't very long when the day lasts a week, but isn't it weird that when he's active people accuse him of lurking, and then when he lurks everyone just shuts up about it and lynches someone else? Actually, that's not all that suspicious, it's more telling of the people who moved their votes. Unvote, Vote OSG, because honestly I don't believe that you weren't trying to wagon when changing your vote.flabort, what's up with this pantomime? Did you change your opinion on who you should be voting for in the middle of making your post?
Post by: Tiruin on February 28, 2015, 09:24:07 am
...Austere is fun.
But wow all that Changeling and Copycat stuff ._.
SO! PFP as I'm still unable to post during the weekend--just noting in advance if anyone is curious.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 28, 2015, 11:06:13 am
Also, agreeing with Shakerag addresses exactly nothing of what I said. What I don't understand is how you can say TDS might not be scum, despite his play thus far. You claim in your post that the only thing that bothered you about TDS was his vote, which may have been RVS related, and then seemed to imply that the rest of his play was scummy. Why is his days of misinterpreting everyone less scummy than a new player's reflexive AtE?I still think that TDS is scum. I just thought, from a strategic standpoint, that Peradon was more scummy then TDS at that moment. While I could have been wrong about TDS and he was still in RVS (I still don't believe him, but it was a possibility) Peradon's act of giving up and guilt-tripping could in no way be town-oriented. Yes, he did change after I called him out on it, but that dosn't change the fact that he still did the action.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on February 28, 2015, 11:39:44 am
Origami, that:seemed like a pretty big stretch for a guilt trip read. Was there anything else that made you thing Peradon was scum or did you decide to vote for him based off two sentences?Anyway, I'll reveal my powers and such if there is no chance that I get saved. For now, my fate is in your hands.This looks like guilt-tripping to me. You are basically saying "if I get lynched, it's your fault"
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 28, 2015, 11:41:05 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 28, 2015, 11:43:11 am
TheDarkStar, I'll explain why in a bit.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 28, 2015, 12:03:37 pm
I much as I think origamiscienceguy is scum, the fact that TDS conveniently disappeared for 24 hours before the lynch and let Peradon get lynched has been bugging me a LOT. I actually mention it here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6067693#msg6067693), in my reads list, when talking about him. I'm getting the feeling that OSG and TDS are scumbuddies, but urrrrggggghh I don't know for sure and don't know which one we should lynch first. The only way I'd know which one to lynch first would be if they claimed their powers, autos, and flaws, and on the off chance they are town that's not a good idea. But in the end, while OSG was overeager in jumping on a lynch, TDS had an entire day worth of scumminess racked up on him and he's my choice for the lynch.
flabort: Tunneling was perhaps an imprecise phrase. I was hyper-focused on TDS and Peradon, as they were my top two scumpicks, but I wasn't doing the traditional Toony-tunnel where you digdigdigdigdig until they make a misspeak or say something suboptimal. I was using the word tunneling to mean that I developed tunnel vision, although I wasn't being entirely clear in the matter.
hector13: I wouldn't call it the last minute, I gave him a good... 5 hours (I think) to respond during a time of day he is highly active. The one thing I do regret was not being able to interact with him to hear out his defense, but my schedule is... urk. And the worst part of it is that the next class I would have happily had our debate had bay12 not been blocked, because we were just watching a non-essential video.
Hold up now I'm rereading things...
Yeah no actually I change my mind. Unvote, origamiscienceguy, do you honestly think that people wouldn't give up when put in a seemingly impossible situation? Particularly a new player? Unless a new player displays astounding cunning and ability to fake emotions they have actually given up. Doesn't negate the scummy things they've done in the past, but I strongly disagree that it is "scummy" behavior. People give up sometimes, and they express it in the thread. Just because something is "anti-town" does not automatically mean that town won't do it, particularly if its related to an innate emotional response. While there is no reason to unvote someone because they've given up, it is in no way grounds to VOTE them, particularly when it's listed as the sole grounds to do it. What benefit is gained from voting a player who is already the top lynch target and has given up? Unless the scum are going to slip in at the last minute, none, and you, by your logic, wouldn't have believed they would unless for some reason his giving up, which isn't particularly controllable in the immediate moment, is actually a SCUMMY activity. Scummy and anti-town are two different things: anti-town is anything that isn't high-odds town play, while scummy is scum-oriented play.
Post by: flabort on February 28, 2015, 12:33:57 pm
Pretty much, yeah.Snipflabort, what's up with this pantomime? Did you change your opinion on who you should be voting for in the middle of making your post?
I thought about making the TDS vote blue and then not doing the unvote thing, too, but I figured I had already written that much, and it was more dramatic; it also put a lot more pressure on OSG as far as I'm concerned, to explain everything.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 28, 2015, 12:55:37 pm
Scummy and anti-town are two different things: anti-town is anything that isn't high-odds town play, while scummy is scum-oriented play.I see anti-town as any action that can in no way benefit town. While scummy is an action that is most likely to benefit scum. I think that giving up can in no way benefit town because, if the player is town, then the town looses a player and looses several potential arguments that could be used later in the game.
Is there anybody who thinks that a player giving up can benefit the town in any way?
Also, I voted for him because of the guilt tactics that he used. This cannot benefit the town either because, if the player was town, it would make the town feel guilty after the lynch and be more timid on following lynches.
Is there anybody who thinks that a player using guilt tactics can benefit the town in any way?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 28, 2015, 12:57:30 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 28, 2015, 01:39:07 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 28, 2015, 01:42:19 pm
I'm still catching up and going through Day 1. Owing to time restrictions, I've only gone through 4mask's, Shakerag's, and Varee's posts.May I ask why?
Post by: hector13 on February 28, 2015, 01:43:21 pm
Is there anybody who thinks that a player giving up can benefit the town in any way?
Is there anybody who thinks that a player using guilt tactics can benefit the town in any way?
It could bring the scum out to guarantee a lynch by voting on a player... as it seems to have done with you.
My issue with what you're saying is what I said before: there are a lot of experienced players in this game, unlikely to be swayed by an AtE.
I also still don't understand why you think TDS is less scummy than Perry. You say you don't believe that his vote was an RVS vote, and that would mean that you think he's lying. Is lying less anti-town or scummy than an AtE?
Like 4mask said, anti-town =/= scummy. I agree, guilt tripping is anti-town; AtE is anti-town. Peradon has perhaps not played the game long enough to know this.
Also, 4mask, you did give Peradon around 5 hours to respond. Do you think that's enough time for him to defend himself, given that you knew you had a class in the middle of that? How long was your class? I ask because there was also a gap of about 90 minutes before the last post and the day end, too, so... I don't really see how you can say that less than 3.5 hours is enough to give Perry to defend himself when you can't/don't respond, and even if you can, that it's enough time for him to convince you you're wrong. Further, there's also the issue of past performance not guaranteeing future results; just because he's been highly active around a certain time before, doesn't mean he's going to be active around that time in the future.
You took a big hit in my reads because of that, not aided at all by your "oh dear, I was wrong" post D2, including a "oh dear, my vote is my only weapon, oh noes" too. Didn't think it would be possible for my top town read to fall so far over the course of a few hours. Evidently mafia has a lot more surprises for me in the future :))
PPE: instead of posting about your progress, TDS, use the time to write/continue your analysis. I can't fuckin' wait to see what you have to say.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 28, 2015, 02:49:01 pm
hector13: Actually, I thought it was, particularly since I posted it right at the beginning of my hour-and-a-half lunch break I have every day except Wed. If he convinced me, I would have changed my vote back to TDS, but before I could even see his response OSG jumped onto the lynch. At that point, I basically gave up: OSG was going to be my first target today regardless, but at that point changing my vote wouldn't change the lynch and the town NEEDED new information in order to continue, because everything we had up to that point was idle speculation.
I'm going to turn the tables on you here for a moment. If peradon had flipped scum, would you have the same suspicion of me? If not, would that imply that TDS and I are scumbuddies, because I switched the lynch from him to Peradon, who we know is town and who, if I was scum, would be known to be town. In that case, however, because we could communicate with each other, if OSG is also scum then you're assuming there are two scumteams, because there is no way we'd let OSG do something so stupid when it would be easy to just wait and let Peradon get lynched with my vote on him.
In other words, please explain your thought process of how I am scum for what happened. I'm actually curious as to the way you see the game.
Post by: hector13 on February 28, 2015, 04:24:17 pm
Urk wtf I hate the wifi here.
hector13: Actually, I thought it was, particularly since I posted it right at the beginning of my hour-and-a-half lunch break I have every day except Wed. If he convinced me, I would have changed my vote back to TDS, but before I could even see his response OSG jumped onto the lynch. At that point, I basically gave up: OSG was going to be my first target today regardless, but at that point changing my vote wouldn't change the lynch and the town NEEDED new information in order to continue, because everything we had up to that point was idle speculation.
I'm going to turn the tables on you here for a moment. If peradon had flipped scum, would you have the same suspicion of me? If not, would that imply that TDS and I are scumbuddies, because I switched the lynch from him to Peradon, who we know is town and who, if I was scum, would be known to be town. In that case, however, because we could communicate with each other, if OSG is also scum then you're assuming there are two scumteams, because there is no way we'd let OSG do something so stupid when it would be easy to just wait and let Peradon get lynched with my vote on him.
In other words, please explain your thought process of how I am scum for what happened. I'm actually curious as to the way you see the game.
Addressing the pink bit: Don't be putting words into my mouth. That's your assumption of my thoughts before I've made an explanation on them, not mine. Why do you feel the need to make it appear I'm saying something I haven't?
Spoiler: on my playstyle, and anticipating a question from 4mask (click to show/hide)
To address your question, I would have still suspected you after changing your vote, because doing it so close to the deadline seems scummy. That does not mean I assume there are two scum teams; like I said in the spoiler, I don't know how many there are, and I also don't like speculating.
However, I shall indulge you in your little fantasy after asking me my question. The one thing you failed to mention in that particular scenario was Shakerag's vote on Peradon. There was enough time for him to come in and remove his vote on Perry, which would result in a tie had Origami not changed his vote. Perhaps that's why you let him do something so stupid and obviously scummy?
I'd also like to point out your hypocrisy on wishy-washiness, given you voted TDS in one post, and then changed your mind and voted Origami in your next post. Given that changing your vote on D1 resulted in a mislynch, I would've thought you'd be less inclined to do that... assuming you're town, of course.
Speaking of which, Shakerag, why did you leave what appeared to be an RVS vote on Peradon?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 28, 2015, 04:36:08 pm
That's good to know about you, thank you for that information.
There's a difference between wishy-washiness and changing your mind. I'm not hugely good with words, but what I accused Peradon for was not the same thing as what I did there. I accused Peradon because he changed his vote because of the pressure of others, while I changed mine because I had more time to think. Your attempt at equating two disparate cases is noted, however.
Assuming I'm town my ass, I'm not so timid that one mislynch causes me to curl up in a ball and hunker down on a vote I don't believe is the best one. I'm going to make vote the person I deem the scummiest, and the fact that I was wrong once doesn't change that, it just means I need to recalibrate my scumminess meter. Are you telling me that I should just curl into a ball and not change my vote out of fear that I could be wrong, and then telling me, with a straight face, that such is TOWN behavior. Scum bunker down because they know who their enemies are, townies adapt because they don't know who to trust and not trust.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 28, 2015, 04:54:26 pm
My point is that the set of actions that don't benefit the town is larger than the set of actions that benefit the scum. You're basing your entire argument off of the fact that it was anti-town, which it was. Please explain, however, how it benefited scum.
almost anything that hurts town is in some way going to benefit scum. This is why I think anti-town should be treated the same as scumminess.
His actions benefited scum by distracting the town, putting a town player out of commission (by lynching and giving up), and making town more afraid to lynch. All of these actions will give the scum more opportunities and freedom to do as they please.
Post by: hector13 on February 28, 2015, 05:25:54 pm
There's a difference between wishy-washiness and changing your mind. I'm not hugely good with words, but what I accused Peradon for was not the same thing as what I did there. I accused Peradon because he changed his vote because of the pressure of others, while I changed mine because I had more time to think. Your attempt at equating two disparate cases is noted, however.
Indeed. My point stems from the fact you don't like wishy-washy voting, which I would define as erratic voting, yet seem to indulge in it yourself, not from saying what you and Perry did were the same thing.
Earlier, (in reply #434 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6068932#msg6068932) and #435) you changed your mind from TDS to Origami in the space of 20 minutes. Last night (replies #412 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6067693#msg6067693)-417) you also voted for Origami... and then unvoted, after 20 minutes. I see that as wishy-washy.
Assuming I'm town my ass, I'm not so timid that one mislynch causes me to curl up in a ball and hunker down on a vote I don't believe is the best one. I'm going to make vote the person I deem the scummiest, and the fact that I was wrong once doesn't change that, it just means I need to recalibrate my scumminess meter. Are you telling me that I should just curl into a ball and not change my vote out of fear that I could be wrong, and then telling me, with a straight face, that such is TOWN behavior. Scum bunker down because they know who their enemies are, townies adapt because they don't know who to trust and not trust.
I'm not telling you that. Would you stop putting words in my mouth? It's really annoying :P
Origami, you have yet to explain to me why a guilt-trip from Peradon is worse than lying from TDS.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 28, 2015, 05:33:26 pm
Post by: hector13 on February 28, 2015, 06:00:58 pm
Where did TDS lie?
You said you don't believe that his RVS vote was an RVS vote. What else can I construe you thinking that means?
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 28, 2015, 06:02:53 pm
Post by: hector13 on February 28, 2015, 06:13:03 pm
That is my opinion. There is no actual proof that he lied. That is why I voted peradon over TDS because there was a chance that he was telling the truth. I've mentioned this several times already.
Indeed. You also said you believed TDS wasn't telling the truth, several times already. For example, here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6068872#msg6068872), here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6067650#msg6067650), here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6065023#msg6065023), here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6065015#msg6065015) and here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6064937#msg6064937). You weren't convinced TDS was being honest, with the only inference anyone can make from that being that you think he was being dishonest, or, more simply, lying.
Town have no reason to lie, but they are allowed emotional responses. Why is an emotional response scummier than lying?
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 28, 2015, 06:19:22 pm
Peradon's emotional responce was giving up, which town has no reason to do.
Post by: hector13 on February 28, 2015, 06:22:21 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 28, 2015, 06:24:31 pm
Post by: hector13 on February 28, 2015, 06:28:52 pm
Now, given you seem to like statistics, there was a chance that (given how we're all humans and are prone to emotional outbursts) Perry's reaction to realising he was going to get lynched, because of two deadline changed votes, was town motivated. Does that sound reasonable? If so, next paragraph, otherwise, why not?
Why is that chance of a town-motivated emotional reaction more scummy than the chance that someone might be lying, which is arguably never town-motivated?
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 28, 2015, 06:33:21 pm
Now, given you seem to like statistics, there was a chance that (given how we're all humans and are prone to emotional outbursts) Perry's reaction to realising he was going to get lynched, because of two deadline changed votes, was town motivated. Does that sound reasonable? If so, next paragraph, otherwise, why not?
There was a chance that Peradon was Town (obviously) But, I do not see any way in which Peradon purposefully did those actions to benefit the town. So no, I don't think that his actions were town motivated.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on February 28, 2015, 06:34:25 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 28, 2015, 09:03:19 pm
This was a post I was trying to post earlier but the wifi at the ski lodge was fucking with me and I couldn't.
Quote from: 4maskwolf
As I said, and as anyone who's played with me for a long time can tell you, I'm not good with words. "Wishy-washy" was my phrase I used to mean "lazy voting patterns without reasoning, usually involving changing votes without a clear reason". Which still doesn't say exactly what I meant by it, but what have you. You'll note that in the time between my vote and unvote on OSG he responded to a question, which gave me information with which to make a new decision, and my reason for unvoting was because of that, whereas Peradon, who I called "wishy-washy" stated his reason for unvoting as "Everyone else says Shakerag is like this" and only later said that he'd done his own research and thinking on the matter.
Also, I hate to interfere, but to avoid frustration on both sides I'm going to say this: OSG is explaining his logic behind it. He has several times. We may call bullshit on it and not think it is legitimate, but he is explaining it. What he's basically been saying is, and correct me if I'm wrong OSG, "I was uncertain about TDS and the guilt-trip was egregious enough to make me think Peradon was more scummy." But more to the point, what you said there about him not explaining is blatantly false.
This next part is me speaking out of exasperation and as an outside observer, so I may be entirely wrong. Who knows.
hector, origami, you're both talking past each other. origami, I see where you're coming from, even if I don't agree with you. But you're bunkering down behind a point that, from my perspective, is impossible to defend. hector13, I see where you are coming from too, but you're missing the point behind OSG's argument. And OSG, in turn, is missing the point behind yours.
Let me put this in very blatant terms for the two of you. I may be misrepresenting your points, but I'm tired and in a bad mood and don't care. There is no way to deter grumpitude at this point.
For origamiscienceguy: hector is saying that even though the book says giving up is scummy, it is a natural human reaction to facing an impossible situation, and that his giving up could have been just a town member's response to perceived inevitability. No, that doesn't mean that he should have given up, but that's not the point: the point is that both town and scum do that, so how is such an action more scummy than a possible lie, as both have possibilities either way.
For hector13: origamiscienceguy is saying that from his view, taking an anti-town action is scummier than possible lying, especially when the motivation behind said anti-town action is impossible to discern. In the case we have here, Peradon gave up, which is an action that benefits the town not at all and can possibly benefit the scum with confusion if done by town, which FOR HIM warranted a vote over the possibility that TDS was lying about something, the truth behind which was also impossible to determine.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 28, 2015, 10:21:32 pm
First three on the list.I'm still catching up and going through Day 1. Owing to time restrictions, I've only gone through 4mask's, Shakerag's, and Varee's posts.May I ask why?
Going through Day 1 events person-by-person (and skipping off-topic or irrelevant posts), he's an overview of what has happened:
Spoiler: 4maskwolf (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Shakerag (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Varee (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: OSG (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: flabort (click to show/hide)
.Spoiler: hector13 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Tiruin (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: DA (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Persus13 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Reads (click to show/hide)
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 28, 2015, 10:34:41 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 01, 2015, 09:01:38 am
Was lynching someone who was exhibiting an emotional reaction really a better choice that lynching someone you thought was probably lying, since you were reading him as scum anyway and it would have cleared up whether he was lying or not?Now, given you seem to like statistics, there was a chance that (given how we're all humans and are prone to emotional outbursts) Perry's reaction to realising he was going to get lynched, because of two deadline changed votes, was town motivated. Does that sound reasonable? If so, next paragraph, otherwise, why not?
There was a chance that Peradon was Town (obviously) But, I do not see any way in which Peradon purposefully did those actions to benefit the town. So no, I don't think that his actions were town motivated.
Post by: hector13 on March 01, 2015, 10:51:15 am
This is basically what I was moving toward with all that nonsense.Was lynching someone who was exhibiting an emotional reaction really a better choice that lynching someone you thought was probably lying, since you were reading him as scum anyway and it would have cleared up whether he was lying or not?Now, given you seem to like statistics, there was a chance that (given how we're all humans and are prone to emotional outbursts) Perry's reaction to realising he was going to get lynched, because of two deadline changed votes, was town motivated. Does that sound reasonable? If so, next paragraph, otherwise, why not?
There was a chance that Peradon was Town (obviously) But, I do not see any way in which Peradon purposefully did those actions to benefit the town. So no, I don't think that his actions were town motivated.
Now I understand why Origami was avoiding answering my question, because it was basically incriminating himself, but yeah, I got a bit carried away with making him answer it, which made it look as though I wasn't paying attention to what he was saying.
I was it just didn't matter what he said about it, because lying is much, much worse than giving up 5 hours before the deadline because two people changed their vote. Which is why my vote remains on Origami.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2015, 10:54:08 am
I was it just didn't matter what he said about it, because lying is much, much worse than giving up 5 hours before the deadline because two people changed their vote. Which is why my vote remains on Origami.inb4 guilty conscience lolz.
Could everyone post update reads lists? Mine hasn't changed since the one after D2 starts.
Post by: hector13 on March 01, 2015, 10:57:28 am
Spoiler: hector13 (click to show/hide)
I'll do reads later, little busy right now, but to answer your second question (and an I apologise for the language; tired Scotsman) no cunt is posting.
I can't ask questions of anyone beyond 4mask (of whom I would say I've scumhunted, a little more aggressively than I would have liked but I still did it) and Origami (of whom I... was probably tunneling, but he's my top scum-read right now) because they were the only ones posting.
Post by: Varee on March 01, 2015, 11:03:15 am
Hector and OSG just have massive amount of post that dont really have much content i think.
Wolf have been interacting with many, same as flabort.
Shakerag Ds and tirurin isnt here much.
myself also dont really have much to offer in term of content.
I dont really see how you could compile a read list from the exchanges, I feel the read people have been compiling is either base on policy or is biased ....
Maybe it only me but the only thing am waiting for is someone to start demanding a mass claim and compare info .....
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2015, 11:10:25 am
(The only reason I mentioned Deathsword was because I forgot someone had been killed D1 and was trying to figure out why my numbers weren't adding up (I was trying to add up 6 voting players, 3 excused players and 2 unexcused to 12))
hector13: What information are you trying to get out of origamiscienceguy, at this point?
Persus13: How many bops do I need to give you to get you to actually play? Also, please explain why your vote was on flabort at day end.
flabort: Do you have anything to say? At all? Because your activity level has dropped significantly since the beginning of D1, and while I recognize that RL is probably part of that I'd like to hear your thoughts on the current day.
PPE: Varee: yeah, reads list are obviously going to be subjective, but sometimes you can find out scum that way. A massclaim, you say? I'm certainly willing to share my role and all of its permutations throughout time.
Post by: Varee on March 01, 2015, 11:13:41 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2015, 11:14:32 am
my vote didnt show up ...... I think something happen to it, I did vote for no lynch. I still believe that by lynching, you guys are just fulfiling the trickster goal ....Right okay yeah I forgot about that, you are excused.
Post by: notquitethere on March 01, 2015, 11:39:25 am
"You've got to pretty much cremate them before they're edible," he explains, "but there's nothing else you can cook with tarragon in these parts so it's sometimes worth the effort if you're looking to use up the last of your herb supplies."
Meanwhile, the full monks continued plotting which of their number should be executed next.
Votes
4maskwolf
Shakerag
Varee
origamiscienceguy - [4] - Hector13, Flabort, 4maskwolf, Deus Asmoth
Flabort
Hector13
Tiruin
TheDarkStar
Deus Asmoth
Persus13
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, White, Gold, Silver, Blue, Orange, Brown, Purple, Turquoise, Yellow, Black, Violet
Dead Masks
Spoiler: Cream (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
The day ends 12AM GMT on the 5th, or on a hammer of 6 votes. The kill action won't come into effect until Tuesday 12AM.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 01, 2015, 12:20:01 pm
Mask, I took unable to vote.
hector, do you still have a guilty conscience, and if so are you planning to unvote before day's end?
Varee, the town doesn't lose if the trickster wins. Why is it worth giving the scum team the massive advantage of not lynching anyone just to deny a third party victory?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2015, 12:23:14 pm
hector says he got rid of it, IIRC.
Post by: hector13 on March 01, 2015, 12:28:24 pm
hector13: What information are you trying to get out of origamiscienceguy, at this point?
I was basically trying to get him to admit that an emotional response wasn't as scummy as lying, despite his other nonsense. I realised I was perhaps being a bit silly about that after I got the answer though :-\
hector, do you still have a guilty conscience, and if so are you planning to unvote before day's end?
I do not still have a Guilty Conscience, unless someone does something terrible.
Post by: Varee on March 01, 2015, 12:35:21 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2015, 12:36:59 pm
DA: explain to me how our day one lynch helped town? The wincon is just a side effect. Town is not limited to lynching as we have seen vigilante exists. How would mafia gain advantage if I refuse to lynch a town?The issue with this argument is that we don't know if the person with the most votes is town or scum.
Post by: Varee on March 01, 2015, 12:55:38 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2015, 12:57:02 pm
Exactly so you are more likely to do mafia a favor instead of helping town.So you'd rather we go with the strategy that was tried last game and vig our way to victory? Except that I, as scum, was the one to propose that plan and had a workaround, and with the greater arsenal available here I'm sure any scum would be able to find a workaround for any plan the town as a whole makes.
Post by: Varee on March 01, 2015, 01:01:15 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 01, 2015, 01:02:43 pm
DA: explain to me how our day one lynch helped town?We know that Pera was town and can examine the cases put against him, which I am trying to do with Origami. Note the difference between that and DS's death, which gave no information to work with.
Quote
The wincon is just a side effect. Town is not limited to lynching as we have seen vigilante exists.We've seen one kill, which was more than likely done by the scum. Is your plan for the game to refuse to vote and hope that we have enough vigilantes to out kill the scum?
Quote
How would mafia gain advantage if I refuse to lynch a town?Unless you know who's mafia and who isn't, this is a stupid question. If you do know who's scum and who isn't, this is a stupid question because you're admitting to being scum. Varee.
Post by: flabort on March 01, 2015, 01:45:49 pm
flabort: Do you have anything to say? At all? Because your activity level has dropped significantly since the beginning of D1, and while I recognize that RL is probably part of that I'd like to hear your thoughts on the current day.Yeah: Arg computer crashed while writing revised reads list.
And I feel like I've been reacting and not acting enough, but every time I try to think of some way to inject some more activity into the game, I'm coming up blank this week so far.
TDS: You asked questions to Tiruin, Hector, Varee, Shakerag and 4mask. How come no question to me?
Varee: At this point you are at best a doctor or Philanthropist, because there is no-way anyone is believing that you are town. At worst, you are a scum who's buddy is a networker and you've been swapping powers via changeling to farm points or whatever. The day 1 changeling gave you enough points to buy free- or prolific or something to use cleanse and copycat.
If, in the case you're a doctor, there are 12 players and you need 6 alive at day 4, or at game-end. There are two dead already, both town. If there are 4 anti-town players out there, then you need them and only them to die to end the game and still win; or, 3 or less deaths by day 4. We've already seen that at least one player possessed a kill, so it's unlikely for you to complete that goal. If one more town dies, then your only hope is to protect, protect, protect until day 4.
If, in the case you're a philanthropist, which you deny, then if you haven't completed your goal so far then you have to find some other strategy; this is your best hope for being town-aligned in our eyes.
That leaves 4 very antitown 3rd-party possibilities, with the thief being potentially the least antitown of those, and the possibility that you're scum. Counting the doctor case as half-town aligned, and the denial of being a philanthropist as the same, then you have a 1/7 chance of not being detrimental to everyone (6 third party+scum=7 possibilities). I'd take those odds,
Post by: hector13 on March 01, 2015, 02:00:04 pm
Spoiler: 4maskwolf (click to show/hide)
You've misrepresented 4mask two times there, though the second one was much more egregious than the first. Why are you trying to portray 4mask as requesting others to policy lynch another player when he did no such thing?
I'd also like to point out your lack of linkage is noted, making people actually have to go back and look themselves that what you say they said is what they actually said.
Spoiler: My reads list (click to show/hide)
Unvote. Vote TDS.
Post by: Persus13 on March 01, 2015, 02:59:05 pm
OSG:
Giving up is not scummy or a mistake, as you seem to imply elsewhere, its a natural human reaction to trying to deal with a situation they view as impossible. Secondly, how is he giving up in this? If Peradon was town, (I know he was, but you believed him to be scum) how would he have behaved differently?Ok, so I know unless some of the lurkers come out of the woodworks to vote for TDS, I'm going to get lynched. So, I'm going to go ahead and post my reads for analysis when I flip town:
This as well. "when I flip town" is another instance where he is guilt-tripping us. Or that is how I saw it. And he is also giving up in this sentence which i find anti-town.
4mask:
I much as I think origamiscienceguy is scum, the fact that TDS conveniently disappeared for 24 hours before the lynch and let Peradon get lynched has been bugging me a LOT.Have you asked him to explain this?
Persus13: How many bops do I need to give you to get you to actually play? Also, please explain why your vote was on flabort at day end.None, although if you could do my homework and take care of my RL that would be nice. I also started this post at 1:50 PM EST, so mafia takes an hour to post most of the time. I voted flabort because it looked like he had missed a question I had asked him or was deliberately ignoring part of my giant post addressed to him. It stayed on him because I thought I had time to make another post before day end when I didn't. If I had been able to post I probably would have switched to Peradon, because some things early on D1 seemed scummy even though they were mainly newb type stuff.
TDS: Why were you not around for the end of Day 1?
Deus Asmoth:
Don't rely on the power game, it can easily distract you from that scumhunting that is the main focus of the game still. 4mask almost won last game by doing town's scumhunting with flabort and town's over reliance on powers to kill townies (and a few mafia). While a sudden kill from TolyK saved the day, it could have backfired badly if it wasn't based on scumhunting. Besides kill is basically the only real weapon in the power arsenal.... since my vote is my ONLY weapon in this game and I just used it poorly...I think this is the source of at least some of my unease. Why say this when you can easily get a weapon other than your vote, or was your intention to imply that you hadn't done exactly that?
[Varee has always advocated for No lynch, so its not to surprising this time.DA: explain to me how our day one lynch helped town?We know that Pera was town and can examine the cases put against him, which I am trying to do with Origami. Note the difference between that and DS's death, which gave no information to work with.QuoteThe wincon is just a side effect. Town is not limited to lynching as we have seen vigilante exists.We've seen one kill, which was more than likely done by the scum. Is your plan for the game to refuse to vote and hope that we have enough vigilantes to out kill the scum?QuoteHow would mafia gain advantage if I refuse to lynch a town?Unless you know who's mafia and who isn't, this is a stupid question. If you do know who's scum and who isn't, this is a stupid question because you're admitting to being scum. Varee.
Flabort:
So, tell me, how is tunneling supposed to catch scum and be town-sided? Don't be vague about it either.Shakerag already answered this, so I think its safe for me to answer too.
Tunneling is something that if the tunnel is directed towards scum, can be very useful. Otherwise it is either something scummy or just misguided. I caught my first scum because they were tunneling majorly and viewed their target as scummy over some ridiculous stuff. However, some people's playstyles are based on tunneling people intensely (ToonyMan's Toony tunnel, and mastahcheese), so it really depnds on who is doing it and how valid you think their target is. I don't view it as inherently scummy, but it can be is basically what I'm trying to say here.
Varee: At this point you are at best a doctor or Philanthropist, because there is no-way anyone is believing that you are town. At worst, you are a scum who's buddy is a networker and you've been swapping powers via changeling to farm points or whatever. The day 1 changeling gave you enough points to buy free- or prolific or something to use cleanse and copycat.Do you remember the last BYOR where Varee just advocated No Lynch and offered to build houses for people? And Varee turned out town?
If, in the case you're a doctor, there are 12 players and you need 6 alive at day 4, or at game-end. There are two dead already, both town. If there are 4 anti-town players out there, then you need them and only them to die to end the game and still win; or, 3 or less deaths by day 4. We've already seen that at least one player possessed a kill, so it's unlikely for you to complete that goal. If one more town dies, then your only hope is to protect, protect, protect until day 4.
If, in the case you're a philanthropist, which you deny, then if you haven't completed your goal so far then you have to find some other strategy; this is your best hope for being town-aligned in our eyes.
That leaves 4 very antitown 3rd-party possibilities, with the thief being potentially the least antitown of those, and the possibility that you're scum. Counting the doctor case as half-town aligned, and the denial of being a philanthropist as the same, then you have a 1/7 chance of not being detrimental to everyone (6 third party+scum=7 possibilities). I'd take those odds,
Varee:
DA: explain to me how our day one lynch helped town? The wincon is just a side effect. Town is not limited to lynching as we have seen vigilante exists. How would mafia gain advantage if I refuse to lynch a town?We learned Peradon was town. We learned that OSG lynched him for dumb reasons. The last time town started vigging people, they all were fooled by scum. Everyone votes for a lynch, only one man vigs, so we get more information from a lynch than one man's kill. Lynching gives us information, more information than any other way, so that early on the alignment of people doesn't matter as much. THis is why we tnd to only do No-Lynch on MYLO.
hector13:
Persus: seemed to be chainsaw defending TDS here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6065317#msg6065317). Given my scum-read on TDS, 's bad. This is like... closer to null than scum, but the very slight scum-lean places them here.That was a mix of trying to understand Flabort's attack and some defending of TDS. So yes, you could say I was chainsaw defending TDS here.
Tiruin This is the second (possibly third) game in a row where you have no content day 1. KYOSN you were Mafia, and in Paranormal your lack of contact helped ensure a town loss. Replace out or actually play.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 01, 2015, 02:59:16 pm
4mask: Thank you for summarizing hector13 argument with me. That cleared things up alot. I admit that I didn't think about peradon just having a mental reaction to the pressure on him mostly because I would not react in that way. I thought that it was a conscious action that he was taking, this feeling was strengthened by his guilt tactics in the same post. even now, I recognize that it could have possibly been a mental reaction, but even after I voted him and his death was basically sealed, he began to fight more then before I voted for him. Which is counter intuitive to him having a mental reaction. So I still think that my vote was justified.
TheDarkStar Your most recent posts have gone back to just being neutral posts giving walls of facts without any analysis on your part. I don't think that the misinterpretation is as big of a deal is hector13 is making it out to be, because that is alot of information to put on one post, but, your complete lack of analysis, just genral "town due to scumhunting" "null due to lack of posts" and your only scum read being...persus? I just find this to be lackluster and lazy. You have had several days of information and this is not a big enough result.
Post by: hector13 on March 01, 2015, 03:36:26 pm
Spoiler: further nonsense arguing with Origami (click to show/hide)
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 01, 2015, 03:44:27 pm
Spoiler: further nonsense arguing with Origami (click to show/hide)
Yes. I meant emotional reaction. Thanks for pointing that out. Why was that in a spoiler?
Post by: hector13 on March 01, 2015, 03:48:35 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 01, 2015, 03:53:34 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 01, 2015, 05:29:35 pm
Tiruin This is the second (possibly third) game in a row where you have no content day 1. KYOSN you were Mafia, and in Paranormal your lack of contact helped ensure a town loss. Replace out or actually play.Because I'm busy IRL and I was collating notes, planning to make a post later today on Monday.
And don't you dare even touch that latter part for the rest of your errors. I was absent D1/2 yet the only 'seemingly pressing' case you all could bring up is a trash case revolving around YOU ARE ABSENT SO YOU ARE SCUM.
Without details on why.
It is cheap, and extremely low.
Especially with that kind of petty threat.
Post by: notquitethere on March 01, 2015, 05:37:43 pm
Votes
4maskwolf
Shakerag
Varee - [2] - Flabort, Deus Asmoth
origamiscienceguy - [1] - 4maskwolf
Flabort
Hector13
Tiruin - [1] - Persus
TheDarkStar - [2] - Hector13, origamiscienceguy
Deus Asmoth
Persus13
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, White, Gold, Silver, Blue, Orange, Brown, Purple, Turquoise, Yellow, Black, Violet
Dead Masks
Spoiler: Cream (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
The day ends 12AM GMT on the 5th, or on a hammer of 6 votes. The kill action won't come into effect until Tuesday 12AM.
Post by: hector13 on March 01, 2015, 05:41:56 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 01, 2015, 05:43:48 pm
Fair enough then, Unvote. I will touch that last part, because your absence was one of many reasons we lost (it gave scum a good lynch target, gave everyone an unknown variable), and I do not want to have that happen again here. You have consistently showed a pattern of joining a game, continuing to promise content, and then failing to provide it because of net/RL issues, or just strait up not being there. I'm sorry, but by promising to play and then failing to do so, you are hindering the game for other people when you try to play and are unable to and I'm tired of having to deal with it in my own scumhunting. I know I shouldn't be the one who is bringing this up, as I was fairly inactive D1 too, but either play or don't join. I'd much prefer it if you played, so I'm eagerly awaiting your promised content.Tiruin This is the second (possibly third) game in a row where you have no content day 1. KYOSN you were Mafia, and in Paranormal your lack of contact helped ensure a town loss. Replace out or actually play.Because I'm busy IRL and I was collating notes, planning to make a post later today on Monday.
And don't you dare even touch that latter part for the rest of your errors. I was absent D1/2 yet the only 'seemingly pressing' case you all could bring up is a trash case revolving around YOU ARE ABSENT SO YOU ARE SCUM.
Without details on why.
It is cheap, and extremely low.
Especially with that kind of petty threat.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2015, 05:44:27 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 01, 2015, 05:48:23 pm
Persus voted for Tiruin, not Tiruin ;)...Thanks for adding a lighthearted note to this.
Quote
I will touch that last part, because your absence was one of many reasons we lost (it gave scum a good lynch target, gave everyone an unknown variable), and I do not want to have that happen again here.Oh come on. :I
I've constantly told EVERYONE that it was due to technical difficulties and the only
NOBODY ELSE saw that Toaster and the rest of the scumteam LIGHTLY poked it--but actually DID NOT give the reasoning BEHIND IT.
So narrowing the focus on something already done doesn't necessarily help--especially given that there were 6 OTHER TOWN PRESENT who 'didn't do much', if we're using that philosophy of Functionalism dictated in your statement. >:(
Quote
You have consistently showed a pattern of joining a game, continuing to promise content, and then failing to provide it because of net/RL issues, or just strait up not being there.Yeah, in the past month. Only.
Classical conditioning sucks when judging me like that. <_<
Quote
I'm sorry, but by promising to play and then failing to do so, you are hindering the game for other people when you try to play and are unable to and I'm tired of having to deal with it in my own scumhunting. I know I shouldn't be the one who is bringing this up, as I was fairly inactive D1 too, but either play or don't join. I'd much prefer it if you played, so I'm eagerly awaiting your promised content.One bonus the other games didn't have: PMs. So its more straight forward with lots of less intervening variables that make me more vague than ever. And yes I'm going to play. :I
I never drop a game.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 01, 2015, 06:42:18 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 01, 2015, 06:46:00 pm
Tiruin, why didn't you vote day 1? I can understand not being active in the conversations, but you should be active enough to at least get a vote and some reasoning in.Honestly..I didn't catch up in time (that and D1 ended on the weekend--the time when family emergency happened and I had to drop everything to do that thing instead, so delay occurred [and hence my...somewhat silly request for a replacement over the weekend back there ._.]
Post by: hector13 on March 01, 2015, 07:02:07 pm
Tiruin, why didn't you vote day 1? I can understand not being active in the conversations, but you should be active enough to at least get a vote and some reasoning in.
Should someone vote without having reviewed all the evidence? /incredulous
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 01, 2015, 07:04:02 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 01, 2015, 07:08:23 pm
Right. Can I ask why people are getting such strong scum reads off TDS? This may be just because I'm trying to speed read back through the thread and catch up, but I don't think he's been acting all that scummy. Also, I started the game with a pair of two point flaws, one of which was being unable to vote. That may have been a bad idea.
Persus, do you not consider OSG scummy enough to vote for if you're not voting for Tiruin any more?
Post by: hector13 on March 01, 2015, 07:14:28 pm
Example 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6071667#msg6071667)
Example 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6071786#msg6071786)
Example 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6072354#msg6072354)
Or am I just being a little too critical here?
Post by: Varee on March 01, 2015, 07:15:57 pm
Quote
Do you remember the last BYOR where Varee just advocated No Lynch and offered to build houses for people? And Varee turned out town?
That part make me laugh a lot, I dont even remember it and now I feel like am doing the exact same thing ....
Flabort: During Day 1 you said that handing out power is good for town, Why did you change your mind now?
DA : I dont disagree with you, I cant say if the lynch is going to be town or not but it is more likely that it is going to be town than scum. But that the thing with lynching, If I dont agree with the current lynch then I got the option to vote for someone else. I should use that instead of trying to get people to stop lynching.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2015, 07:18:39 pm
Does anyone else think Origami is buddying?
IDK, maybe I'm just making a mountain out of a molehill, but... I feel like he's trying to ingratiate himself with me because so many people had me up high on their reads lists, which is a definitively scum thing to do.You're not the only one who thinks so, no.
Mask, I said it here, which was a bit after you asked the question.Herp derp I even read the first part of that post, I just glossed over the part about your flaws.Right. Can I ask why people are getting such strong scum reads off TDS? This may be just because I'm trying to speed read back through the thread and catch up, but I don't think he's been acting all that scummy. Also, I started the game with a pair of two point flaws, one of which was being unable to vote. That may have been a bad idea.
I have something to say, I just need a little while to type it up.
Post by: Tiruin on March 01, 2015, 07:19:41 pm
Does anyone else think Origami is buddying?...I think its more of the latter, as you seem to put value on someone being thankful with the topping of suspicion rather than taking it as is.
Example 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6071667#msg6071667)
Example 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6071786#msg6071786)
Example 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6072354#msg6072354)
Or am I just being a little too critical here?
More on the third link anyway--are you connecting the last 2 links to derive something out of it?
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 01, 2015, 07:26:01 pm
Does anyone else think Origami is buddying?
Example 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6071667#msg6071667)
Example 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6071786#msg6071786)
Example 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6072354#msg6072354)
Or am I just being a little too critical here?
You think that me saying "please" and "thank you" is buddying?
Post by: hector13 on March 01, 2015, 07:30:54 pm
Does anyone else think Origami is buddying?...I think its more of the latter, as you seem to put value on someone being thankful with the topping of suspicion rather than taking it as is.
Example 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6071667#msg6071667)
Example 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6071786#msg6071786)
Example 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6072354#msg6072354)
Or am I just being a little too critical here?
More on the third link anyway--are you connecting the last 2 links to derive something out of it?
No, those are the examples of buddying I want everyone to opine on. He's thanked three people in the last page or so, and not really added anything in them (except for the vote and analysis on TDS in the first one) and did appear to be trying to encourage me to continue arguing a point I don't think has been bled of all value two posts after example 2 (that post was basically "everyone's opinion matters")
I'm just worried I might have blinkers on and am just seeing everything that Origami does as scum motivated, even though I already think he's scum.
He was getting scum read pretty hard by everyone after the D1 lynch, including myself, so I think he's just trying to come across as non-threatening.
PPE: Origami, I think you saying please and thank you to two people who are voting you is buddying, yes.
I think that you're trying to influence Tiruin's opinion of you before they've read the rest of the thread by saying please and thank you, yes.
Post by: Tiruin on March 01, 2015, 07:42:11 pm
Personally, I see you and Origami as town-leaning, though that's in the tiny sparse bits I took notes on while my net was active days ago. It shall be updated later on.
And i haven't voted anyone.
...And my read n Origami isn't solely influenced by him being appreciative. That is..just silly, for me. :P He can be scum or town and still say thank you--that is good manners.
Scum can have good manners. :v
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 01, 2015, 07:44:12 pm
hector13, how was I trying to continue the argument?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2015, 07:46:46 pm
One of the scum's advantages is that they know each other's masks and alignments, so they can work together. The alignments part is impossible to touch, but it IS possible to mess with their masks so that a scumteam focused on supporting each other would become incapable of functioning. Grand Swap would be the easiest way to do this, obviously, because it switches everyone's mask, but it also disadvantages anyone whose build was a self-buffing build (like Peradon's, for instance)...
Idk. I'm trying to come up with some way to break the scumteam(s), but I'm nothing is coming to mind. I'm just sure the town will lose if we keep telegraphing our lynch criteria to the scumteam(s)...
Post by: Tiruin on March 01, 2015, 07:48:44 pm
Idk. I'm trying to come up with some way to break the scumteam(s), but I'm nothing is coming to mind. I'm just sure the town will lose if we keep telegraphing our lynch criteria to the scumteam(s)...I know for a fact that the scumteam or someone hilarious is using a combination of a changeling, reflect and infect combination however. >_>
I have no idea who it is, but judging by the teatime I had with NQT a while ago over the weekend, !!fun!! happened.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2015, 07:50:05 pm
/me almost chokes on his glass of waterIdk. I'm trying to come up with some way to break the scumteam(s), but I'm nothing is coming to mind. I'm just sure the town will lose if we keep telegraphing our lynch criteria to the scumteam(s)...I know for a fact that the scumteam or someone hilarious is using a combination of a changeling, reflect and infect combination however. >_>
You WHAT?!?!?!
Post by: Tiruin on March 01, 2015, 07:50:32 pm
*
3 – Radiant (Each time someone successfully targets you, that action is also copied onto a random player)
Not reflect. Was confusing the two terms because of the idea of the word Reflect equaling the ability desc. of Radiant.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2015, 07:50:52 pm
How in all flavor of damnation to you know this?/me almost chokes on his glass of waterIdk. I'm trying to come up with some way to break the scumteam(s), but I'm nothing is coming to mind. I'm just sure the town will lose if we keep telegraphing our lynch criteria to the scumteam(s)...I know for a fact that the scumteam or someone hilarious is using a combination of a changeling, reflect and infect combination however. >_>
You WHAT?!?!?!
Post by: hector13 on March 01, 2015, 07:52:32 pm
PPE:
We all have opinions about the game. And they are usually different from the other players. But they should still be shared, or else those opinions are useless. That's how I feel about it anyways.
That bit. Like I say, could be confirmation bias, but I said I didn't think there was anything useful to be added in arguing the point anymore, while you said everyone's opinion has value only if it has been voiced.
PPE2: 4mask, the confirmation bias ninja.
PPE3: scary role combos. C-C-C-Combo Breaker?
Post by: hector13 on March 01, 2015, 07:53:02 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 01, 2015, 08:07:34 pm
Err, well, not exactly 'direct' but I found out that the recent Changeling FUN has Infect snuck in.How in all flavor of damnation to you know this?/me almost chokes on his glass of waterIdk. I'm trying to come up with some way to break the scumteam(s), but I'm nothing is coming to mind. I'm just sure the town will lose if we keep telegraphing our lynch criteria to the scumteam(s)...I know for a fact that the scumteam or someone hilarious is using a combination of a changeling, reflect and infect combination however. >_>
You WHAT?!?!?!
Changeling copycat, whatever, I had too many people (seemingly?) touch my mask before :I
I think ts because my color is a bit more common or 'fancy' <_<
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2015, 08:23:46 pm
Err, well, not exactly 'direct' but I found out that the recent Changeling FUN has Infect snuck in.Hold up.
Changeling copycat, whatever, I had too many people (seemingly?) touch my mask before :I
I think ts because my color is a bit more common or 'fancy' <_<
Just explain in basic terms what happened here, without mentioning your mask color.
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 01, 2015, 08:24:48 pm
Err, well, not exactly 'direct' but I found out that the recent Changeling FUN has Infect snuck in.Hold up.
Changeling copycat, whatever, I had too many people (seemingly?) touch my mask before :I
I think ts because my color is a bit more common or 'fancy' <_<
Just explain in basic terms what happened here, without mentioning your mask color.
I'm seconding this. Also, do you still have your role?
Post by: Tiruin on March 01, 2015, 08:28:10 pm
Well let's see. I'll PM NQT first a big question.
Also, do you still have your role?This is important, why? :P
Post by: flabort on March 01, 2015, 08:46:31 pm
Flabort: During Day 1 you said that handing out power is good for town, Why did you change your mind now?Yes, I did say that, didn't I? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6054298#msg6054298)
But I didn't say the reason I was voting you was because of you handing out powers. I'm voting you because of the shear SCALE of those powers.
I'm voting you because at this point I had begun suspecting that you could not possibly be able to do this on your own; I had thought, at first, that you had found a patsy that you could use to do it, or something else somewhat benign; hense my question about self-changeling being a possibility.
But today you handed out three powers; changeling, copycat, cleanse. Aint no way that you could do that with a self-+networker type deal, and using changeling on a patsy would mean that you couldn't use it again, not unless you already gifted a copy of changeling to the patsy. Which would be as expensive as a self+-networker deal. So by the shear volume of points required by day 2 to pull that combo off, I deduce that you aren't working alone; I would understand if you got the points to do it via some absurd combo, but then you wouldn't be able to have given everyone changeling on the first day.
Therefor, I believe you to be scum.
PPE: 15 posts
Tiruin, I don't understand. Are you saying that by receiving the cleanse, we've been infected? Well, well, well, Varee. Your plan was to stealthily kill everyone all along.
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 01, 2015, 08:52:38 pm
Oop, infected or poisoned.
Well let's see. I'll PM NQT first a big question.Also, do you still have your role?This is important, why? :P
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 01, 2015, 08:53:48 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2015, 09:00:52 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2015, 09:02:09 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 01, 2015, 09:38:31 pm
Wait! Tiruin, are you saying that by varee giving us all changeling day one, we all could be infected?No, I'm not saying anybody in particular because it seems--ultimately instead of a possibility--that the scumteam actually did use the changeling power in order to kill as many as possible along with the power of RADIANT
Quote
3 – Radiant (Each time someone successfully targets you, that action is also copied onto a random player)So when 'copy' is said:
Quote
4 - Changeling (target player gains all your powers/flaws/autos and you get the powers/flaws/autos of your target.)This occurs.
Why I say so is because of the torrent that had happened before--and that given my mask color is unknown to anyone, and the primary reason why I suspect its a scum-move is because this happened:
Quote from: Changelog 2.0v
February 27, 2015, 7 pmI cleansed myself, selling off Copycat and boom--no change.
Changeling, Changeling, Unstoppable, Mercenary, Afflicted, Dense
Changeling, Changeling, Unstoppable, Mercenary, Afflicted, Dense, Guilty Conscience
February 27, 2015, 9 pm
Cleanse, Changeling, Changeling, Changeling, Unstoppable, Mercenary, Afflicted, Dense, Guilty Conscience
February 27, 2015, 10 pm
Cleanse, Copycat, Unstoppable, Mercenary, Afflicted, Dense, Guilty Conscience
So I'm really under the obvious inclination that poison and infect is at use.
And given that I'm claiming anyway:
My mask is Silver.
No, this is not any convoluted plan but me noting the overt power of what just happened initially (7pm~ log) given that I had no powers of the contrary mentioned at all.
Note the many changelings.
Note me saying that I self-cleansed and nothing changed.
Note the obvious LACK of
Quote
3 - Circumspect (you always know the reason why your actions fail and you always know if you've been poisoned or infected)
...I knew I should've picked Grounded firsthand. -_-
Oh, and my initial role was:
Quote
10 - Booby-trap (Pick a power: until the end of the day, players that use this power are killed. This counts towards the scum-team kill limit.)And a Self-Protect, because I initially assumed that Booby Trap could be taken as an action (given its indirect nature) ALONG WITH any other power; Booby-Trapping Booby-Trap (which was my D1 action), would actually rebound.
I did not inquire further. So yeah.
What in all flavor of damnation is going on here... stop making accusations until we have a chance to sort this out.Not accusing, but am telling beforehand.
Post by: Varee on March 01, 2015, 09:40:58 pm
Post by: Varee on March 01, 2015, 09:42:47 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 01, 2015, 09:44:19 pm
I do hope that was overt in between the lines there. :v
My post is still as ambiguous to anyone's jurisdiction as it initially was.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2015, 09:47:25 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2015, 09:49:02 pm
Has anyone else cleansed themself and not removed a flaw?
I cleansed myself twice today and removed two flaws.
Post by: Tiruin on March 01, 2015, 09:49:50 pm
However I really doubt it--as the Networker GIVES A COPY of that power instead of giving the effect of said power, while the Radiant copies the action onto any random player. The latter is my theory as it gives free random kills, and the scumteam can just swap changeling and Immune--given that Immune is an Auto and the Changeling is an action.
But I'm still pondering on why in the world I have infect or poison as an EFFECT rather than actually having the action, if and unless I am totally reading RADIANT wrong.
Considering the point-build, the 'antidote' is a clean slate.
5 - Immune - (you can't be poisoned or infected)
Or 5 - Resurrection (After dying, you come alive again- you still get any day xp etc, but this auto disappears on use.)
Tiruin, my no accusations thing was actually directed at everyone else who was wildly speculating,Oh. Well let me add to it. Because it seems Infect/Poison was somewhat included in anyway that does NOT copy the action in question.
Post by: flabort on March 01, 2015, 09:51:28 pm
Wait are we claiming now? I will explain how i did what i did if you want me to flabort :DYeah, I'd like to know. But I'm sure the scum would too, so it's up in the air as to whether you want to claim your gifting process.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2015, 09:52:47 pm
Post by: Varee on March 01, 2015, 09:54:58 pm
PPE ninjaed, Well the basic concept is to use copycat on myself and myself to double all the power I have on me. With flexible, I pretty much double my point pool every day.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 01, 2015, 09:55:10 pm
Post by: Varee on March 01, 2015, 09:56:52 pm
If someone were to infect a networker, wouldn't that get everyone infected? (unless they were protected or otherwise immune)
Post by: Tiruin on March 01, 2015, 10:00:27 pm
I'm actually not worried about this new development. Suffice it to say that I'm immune, which I took on the off chance that this style of dickery happened.So may I ask how you'd feel if I copycat'd you?
Post by: Varee on March 01, 2015, 10:03:18 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2015, 10:06:15 pm
Huh?I'm actually not worried about this new development. Suffice it to say that I'm immune, which I took on the off chance that this style of dickery happened.So may I ask how you'd feel if I copycat'd you?
Yeah, copycat copies all actions TARGET1 does onto TARGET2, so I guess you could, but I'd rather not reveal my mask... My actions are fairly lackluster and I've used them all for the day, as well.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 01, 2015, 10:36:26 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2015, 10:37:21 pm
We know that there is a networker in this game, but does anybody have any idea how we all got 2 copies of all the abilities?I, erm...
I didn't?
I only got one copy per day.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 01, 2015, 10:43:40 pm
When the day started, I had changelingx2 cleansex2, and copycatx2 along with my normal abilities radiant and reflect
Post by: Varee on March 01, 2015, 10:45:03 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2015, 10:46:51 pm
Hold up.
OSG.
You have radiant and reflect?
What in all flavor of damnation are you up to?
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 01, 2015, 10:47:19 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2015, 10:48:53 pm
My build is intended to nullify attacks on me by most other builds, namely every build I could get my hands on a way to prevent. Which also left me completely powerless to do anything but vote to get anywhere.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 01, 2015, 11:01:10 pm
Yea, I'm selling that when I go shopping today.
Post by: Varee on March 01, 2015, 11:07:10 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 02, 2015, 04:42:24 am
Hector, I wouldn't really call that buddying.
Mask, I cleansed myself and removed one flaw. Then again, I'm circumspect so I'd know if someone poisoned me anyway.
Post by: Shakerag on March 02, 2015, 10:41:55 am
flabort:
So, tell me, how is tunneling supposed to catch scum and be town-sided? Don't be vague about it either.Sorry about that. I believe the general idea behind the Toony Tunnel was to intensely question one person to see whether they would crack under the pressure (scum) or be able to answer the questions without any issues (town). Of course, that does seem like it would give inaccurate results if you had a particularly level-headed scum player or a fairly brittle townie. From what I remember, it did seem to be decent at rooting out scum at the time, hence why the name and method stuck.
I do feel like there has been some fuzzing of the term (tunneling, in general) as time has gone on to include just any amount of repeated, pressured questioning, even if the questioner is not focused on only one person.
4maskwolf:
Yeah no actually I change my mind. Unvote, origamiscienceguy, do you honestly think that people wouldn't give up when put in a seemingly impossible situation? Particularly a new player?I'm pretty sure OSG is a new player as well? From the standard BM opener:
Spoiler: A List of Common Scumtells (click to show/hide)
hector13:
Speaking of which, Shakerag, why did you leave what appeared to be an RVS vote on Peradon?We have a hector13 and a persus13. Huh. Anyway...
It was initially a pseudo-RVS vote. I was suspicious of Peradon asking a bunch about powers, so I figured I'd take that initial hunch and toss a vote and a ridiculous assumption at him to see how he reacted. He got defensive and panicky, so he never gave me good reason to unvote him after that point.
---
I'm going to have to process the weekend's activity in chunks.
Rereading bookmark: hector's quoted post above
Post by: flabort on March 02, 2015, 01:14:19 pm
Are we claiming powers?
I currently, not including changeling shenanigans, have a self cleanse, a self-protect, another power or two that I can't remember right now, Flexible, Death resistant... and I have a few free-inflates.
I designed it to have very little day1 power, be safe on day2, and have much utility on day 3 when I sell another inflate.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2015, 02:06:21 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 02, 2015, 03:59:21 pm
I currently, not including changeling shenanigans, have a self cleanse, a self-protect, another power or two that I can't remember right now,
Flabort,
Your powers are listed in your PM's. No memorization is required. This sounds like an excuse not to tell us your complete powers.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 02, 2015, 04:07:20 pm
Post by: hector13 on March 02, 2015, 04:08:14 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 02, 2015, 04:13:51 pm
Maybe it's nothing though.
Post by: flabort on March 02, 2015, 06:17:05 pm
I would understand if he said "a few more powers that I don't want to reveal" but he said he can't remember them. Sounds more like an excuse than a reason.It was a pfp post. Cannot view a PM and write a post at the same time. Sorry, I'll gladly dive into my inbox and find my most recent build once I get home.
Maybe it's nothing though.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 02, 2015, 06:23:55 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 02, 2015, 06:36:11 pm
Post by: flabort on March 02, 2015, 08:56:22 pm
Why are you so willing to reveal your powers in any case?Because I thought someone had called for a mass claim, since I saw several claims so far. And Varee offered to claim too. So I figured I'd add to the mass claim, because I sort of like mass claims because they give a whole lot of information that you can't get during a otherwise slow day. If it wasn't a mass claim before, I'd like to call for a mass claim now.
Also, I got frustrated waiting for someone to notice that Inflate now costs 8 points.
Spoiler: Claims so far (click to show/hide)
My missing power that I hadn't remembered turned out to be... well, now that I see/remember what it is (It's one of those autos that protects you from two powers), I'd rather not say which one it is specifically. Oh, and a certain other three-point auto that I also don't want to be recalled now.
I started the game with the three-point auto, three points of flaws, Flexible, and Free-Inflate x4.
When I got changeling, I sold it to buy two more Free-Inflates. Used them all on... you guessed it, inflate.
On the beginning of day 2, I sold one inflate to buy the free-self-protect and self-cleanse that I used to get rid of non-voter. I also got the other auto to protect me from a certain angle of attack, because I'm a little cowardly this game; as well as Death Resistant. As I said, after I pulled off the Vig shenanigans (accidentally being lead by scum) last CYOM, I'm scared of someone trying to kill me.
I then received one copy each of copy-cat, cleanse, and changeling from the mysterious source; Varee being only part of it? Because I'd already shopped and used all my actions, I couldn't do anything with them yet. I can tomorrow.
Post by: Varee on March 02, 2015, 09:29:36 pm
Post by: hector13 on March 02, 2015, 09:33:12 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2015, 09:36:12 pm
Can I ask what people hope to achieve with this? Nobody has any reason to be honest, because it's impossible to test the veracity of the claim.Two words.
Power cop.
Post by: hector13 on March 02, 2015, 09:37:29 pm
Can I ask what people hope to achieve with this? Nobody has any reason to be honest, because it's impossible to test the veracity of the claim.Two words.
Power cop.
Which only targets a mask.
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 02, 2015, 09:41:40 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2015, 02:39:20 am
"No," said another, shaking her head, "that's just the winter spirit departing. Like a sudden squall, nevermore shall this plain be graced with—"
At that moment the pair was interrupted by a loud and highly incensed croaking. The acid toad had just woken up and realised he was legless. This could only end one way and that way won't rhyme with quell.
Votes
4maskwolf - [1] 4maskwolf (the 'me' tag (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6072463#msg6072463) shows up as red)
Shakerag
Varee - [2] - Flabort, Deus Asmoth
origamiscienceguy
Flabort
Hector13
Tiruin
TheDarkStar - [2] - Hector13, origamiscienceguy
Deus Asmoth
Persus13
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, White, Gold, Silver, Blue, Orange, Brown, Purple, Turquoise, Yellow, Black, Violet
Dead Masks
Spoiler: Cream (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
The day ends 12AM GMT on the 5th, or on a hammer of 6 votes. Grace period for kills is over.
Post by: Varee on March 03, 2015, 02:57:19 am
Post by: Tiruin on March 03, 2015, 05:30:09 am
You may have missed it--but my initial role was Booby-Trap and Self-Protect (with -3 points of flaws); a massclaim would dig all that up and note, given the lack of a FortuneTeller...{not good things} due to the Changeling happenings around.
There's another way to verify it. I changelinged Tiruin (Silver). Someone changelinged me after that, but Tiruin's original role was Booby Trap, Self-targeting Protect, Minimalist, Guilty Conscience. I have no idea who has it now, but watch out for the booby trap.Ohey, you got it!
:I
Bloody knew people liked the more fancy mask colors instead. Hmph!
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2015, 11:24:33 am
origamiscienceguy
Post by: hector13 on March 03, 2015, 12:04:56 pm
If the scum do have that booby-trap from Tiruin, everyone announcing their powers pretty much gives them a free choice over what to trap.
Claiming masks is even worse, because then they can target specific players for a kill. The scum can have the Power Cop role too, so they can check to see what their target's powers/autos/flaws are before they make their move.
Post by: Shakerag on March 03, 2015, 12:12:04 pm
Questions: What made you leave your vote on Peradon after RVS? What are your reads of people right now?Already answered the first question. As for the second, Deus is my top scumpick for now. OSG is giving me a weird gut feeling, but I can't really say in which direction. Tiruin I can almost never read. I really don't like flabort. 4mask is active, but I'm not necessarily getting a strong town vibe from him. Varee is the spiritual successor to Org. Everyone else I'm pretty neutral on right now.
Varee:
You never responded to this. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6066534#msg6066534)
Persus13:
Does it bother anyone how few lynch candidates there are?What do you mean by this?
flabort:
I see... so it sounds like you'd have to be super active at all times of the week, day and night, in order to 'toony tunnel' enough people to be on par with traditional spread-out scum-hunting. Agree or disagree?If you wanted to do that with multiple people, possibly. I think the idea is to only put the thumbscrews on one player at a time. I think that coupling that technique with exploring leads on a handful of other players at the same time works well, and is something I've done before.
4maskwolf:
Shakerag: I've seen that list, it's horrible, and it should go burn in hell. Those aren't scumtells, those are tells that someone is fed up or can't see a way out of their situation.Regardless of your opinion on that list, my point was that I believe OSG is a new-ish player, and we tell new players to look for certain behaviors as scummy, which is what it appeared OSG was doing. If you think that those scumtells should be reviewed, we can bring that up in one of the discussion threads.
As a side note, I'm also against a massclaim in a game like this.
- Roles can change essentially immediately after the claim, both by the claimer (shopping) and by other players using powers (changeling, for one).
- Inflate, Nerf, Recall, Boobytrap exist.
- If everyone claims and most players all have a particular power, Return and Power Steal become much more effective.
- Scum can see what powers everyone has and buy powers/autos to circumvent strategies to find the scum.
In a more static game like a Paranormal or a BYOR, sure. But I don't see this as an overall benefit to the town in this kind of game.
I don't like how Deus Asmoth found an already dead player to be one of his top scumpicks on D1. Deus claimed he couldn't vote on D1. That's no excuse to not be scumhunting though. If he's scum, then he wouldn't really care who got lynched. Which is what I think led to him not really paying close attention to what was going on, and ended up fingering a dead player as scummy.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 03, 2015, 01:23:21 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2015, 02:29:09 pm
Shakerag: Quit defending, OSG can take care of himself.
Everyone: I am also against a massclaim, for the reasons that have been expressed by others. However, I think it is up to each individual player if and what they claim, such as my choice to claim a few of my abilities and the overall intention of my role.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2015, 02:50:09 pm
Which leads to an interesting conclusion. This means that, if there is one scumteam, hector13 and Tiruin are LIKELY clear, and if there are two then it is LIKELY (not guaranteed, but likely) that they are not a member of the scumteam that is doing this.
Hold on just one second.
Me, origamiscienceguy, Shakerag, and TDS are in the clear for doing it, since we were all on the Peradon mislynch, the trick happened again today. Tiruin is in the clear because she was changeling'd by TDS who has confirmed her powers. hector13 is probably clear due to being the first one it happened to, although it isn't guaranteed. flabort is
NQT: Would a player who is blackmailed have their vote disappear/not appear in the votecount?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2015, 02:52:49 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 03, 2015, 03:31:04 pm
PFP because my net = >:(
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 03, 2015, 03:32:17 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 03, 2015, 03:43:14 pm
Me, origamiscienceguy, Shakerag, and TDS are in the clear for doing it, since we were all on the Peradon mislynch,Why would being on the Peradon mislynch put us in the clear?
Post by: hector13 on March 03, 2015, 03:47:29 pm
If you have a Guilty Conscience, you'd be deid.Me, origamiscienceguy, Shakerag, and TDS are in the clear for doing it, since we were all on the Peradon mislynch,Why would being on the Peradon mislynch put us in the clear?
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 03, 2015, 03:48:32 pm
*slaps myself*
Post by: Tiruin on March 03, 2015, 03:58:56 pm
Mask:What's to stop a scum player simply getting their guilty conscience cleansed off them before the end of the day and then buying it back from the shop the next day so they can do it to someone else?I'd like this answered too please, from my PFP standpoint given that I can see only recent pages due to net condition.
Because from where I see it...
Spoiler: SPoilered to not influence future answer (click to show/hide)
Post by: hector13 on March 03, 2015, 04:06:16 pm
From what DA said, it could be that one, or more, of the people on the lynch had guilty conscience and gave it to other people and then got rid of it themselves, either via buying it off or cleansing it. This clears no-one.
Some of the people who were Unable to Vote could have had their vote stolen instead, and the thief didn't use the vote. This would likely clear the people who were voting.
The chances of Curse choosing the same flaw to give to someone is low (121-1 I think) yes, but you're assuming that Tiruin and I were both cursed. One of us could have been cursed, the other could have been besmirched.
I also have to question why Tiruin is in the clear after TDS claimed her powers. This is difficult to prove unless a third person claims they changeling'd TDS and received those powers.
Post by: Persus13 on March 03, 2015, 04:07:40 pm
This may have simply been a rhetorical question, but did you ever answer this?Tiruin, why didn't you vote day 1? I can understand not being active in the conversations, but you should be active enough to at least get a vote and some reasoning in.
Should someone vote without having reviewed all the evidence? /incredulous
Deus Asmoth:
Persus, do you not consider OSG scummy enough to vote for if you're not voting for Tiruin any more?I forgot to switch to him, thanks for reminding me. I would vote him here, but I just realized something about flabort that requires me to vote him.
Mask:What's to stop a scum player simply getting their guilty conscience cleansed off them before the end of the day and then buying it back from the shop the next day so they can do it to someone else? It also seems entirely possible to me that a town player could be trying to either get lucky and put guilty conscience on one of the scum, or they're just seeing how players react to getting the flaw. Someone immediately unvoting after getting besmirched would seem more likely to be scum to me.Except neither hector13 nor Tiruin strike me as anyone's top scum picks.
hector13:
Does anyone else think Origami is buddying?I'd say your first example could be taken as a possible example of buddying (emphasis on could), but the other two I just attribute to politeness. Being friendly or nice is something people can do in a Mafia game.
Example 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6071667#msg6071667)
Example 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6071786#msg6071786)
Example 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6072354#msg6072354)
Or am I just being a little too critical here?
Varee:
Same here.QuoteDo you remember the last BYOR where Varee just advocated No Lynch and offered to build houses for people? And Varee turned out town?
That part make me laugh a lot, I dont even remember it and now I feel like am doing the exact same thing ....
Tiruin: Glad to see posting. Did you sell the changelings or did they just vanish?
flabort: You accused TDS D1 of inconsistencies when claiming changeling when he said that he had gained then lost some copies of changeling (and then realizing he still had them). Now TDS has said he changelinged Tiruin D1. How would you know if TDS had changelinged someone D1 unless you were on a scumteam with them?
Spoiler: Flabort's post in question (click to show/hide)
Shakerag:
Persus13:Start of D2 there were two vote candidates, TDS from D1 and OSG. In a game like this, I feel that there would be more lynch cases and if the lynch leader was scum there would be an alternative lynch case by the scum in order to get someone who wasn't their buddy lynched. Now I just think it was a sign of low activity or something as people are more active and votes are more all over the place.Does it bother anyone how few lynch candidates there are?What do you mean by this?
4maskwolf:
Shakerag: Quit defending, OSG can take care of himself.Why shouldn't people be able to defend other players?
However, from some things I've seen and heard, it appears that someone is besmirching guilty conscience onto other players. Namely, Tiruin and hector13 have both suddenly gained guilty conscience, and the odds of curse randomly choosing guilty conscience twice is simply too low to consider.Just because odds are low, doesn't mean you shouldn't consider this. And no, I'm not saying that because you voted me. While I agree someone running a guilty conscience-besmirch combo is the most likely scenario, I'd make sure its the only possibility before using to steer your vote over normal scumhunting.
Of theswe, Deus Asmoth is the only one voting right now. Of these people, Persus13 DID vote on D1, but his vote was on someone who had no chance of being lynched at the time by most observer's standards. Varee kept attempting to vote for no-lynch but his vote never showed up, indicating that he was either UtV (which he claims he wasn't) or... I'll ask NQT about this. However, his claim seems mostly in order. Which leaves Persus13 and Deus Asmoth. Due to the fact that Deus Asmoth is voting now, and on one of the two largest lynch wagons, this leaves Persus13 as our unlucky scum, by my logic.I don't have guilty conscience or besmirch.
Post by: flabort on March 03, 2015, 04:23:44 pm
Mask:What's to stop a scum player simply getting their guilty conscience cleansed off them before the end of the day and then buying it back from the shop the next day so they can do it to someone else? It also seems entirely possible to me that a town player could be trying to either get lucky and put guilty conscience on one of the scum, or they're just seeing how players react to getting the flaw. Someone immediately unvoting after getting besmirched would seem more likely to be scum to me.
Spoiler: not to influence answer (click to show/hide)
Persus lol wut?
I explained that he had failed to mention that he'd kept his other powers, and listed his flaws as if he'd just gained them. This made me think he'd been changeling'd. I never mentioned him using it.
Also, wasn't one of his flaws dense and another mercenary? Can't check now, at work, but I would think that if he had those flaws, he'd be unable to use changeling on Tiruin. TDS is a better lynch choice, especially if you suspect he's in a team with annyone
Post by: Tiruin on March 03, 2015, 04:26:46 pm
I also have to question why Tiruin is in the clear after TDS claimed her powers. This is difficult to prove unless a third person claims they changeling'd TDS and received those powers.I'd like this answered too :P from everyone harboring(?) the idea that I'm cleared.
...Also difficult to prove because? Given the notion there, it seems that would be difficult if you assume I'm paired with TDS (ie Mason Chat//Scumfriends)
Quote
Tiruin: Glad to see posting. Did you sell the changelings or did they just vanish?They somehow went totally 'poof' before I could do anything with them. See: previous log and post-speculation on it (ie 'Delete' post...somehow the usual term of 'delete' doesn't show in any post I have in the searchengine but I'm sure I referenced the notion as I was to like 'Delete' back there to it...)
That reminds me:
Everyone doing Changeling POST-D1: Why did you do it? What made you target that mask?
Post by: hector13 on March 03, 2015, 04:33:28 pm
I also have to question why Tiruin is in the clear after TDS claimed her powers. This is difficult to prove unless a third person claims they changeling'd TDS and received those powers.I'd like this answered too :P from everyone harboring(?) the idea that I'm cleared.
...Also difficult to prove because?
It would require someone to know TDS's mask colour so that they know it was him that was changeling'd. I can't imagine he's willing to give that out.
Equally so, if he's scum it could be his partner that changeling'd you in the first place, so even if he did reveal his mask he obviously wouldn't have the powers in that instance.
Post by: Tiruin on March 03, 2015, 04:38:29 pm
It would require someone to know TDS's mask colour so that they know it was him that was changeling'd. I can't imagine he's willing to give that out.I was wondering if it was my claim, alone, that influenced your question on me being in the clear, rather than what happened after I claimed and the proceeds then.
Equally so, if he's scum it could be his partner that changeling'd you in the first place, so even if he did reveal his mask he obviously wouldn't have the powers in that instance.
Equally so, if he's scum it could be his partner that changeling'd you in the first place, so even if he did reveal his mask he obviously wouldn't have the powers in that instance.One bit here. Power-cop is unstoppable against (nothing is immune to it).
Quote
4 - Power-Cop (choose one: learn all powers of the target, learn all auto/upgrades of target/learn all flaws of the target)Unless...
Quote
2 - Silent (you can't be tracked and you don't appear on patrol reports)Patrol = allusion to 'Cop'.
Now if we had a Networker to be Power Cop'd, that would be nice. :V
Post by: hector13 on March 03, 2015, 04:44:03 pm
Your claim isn't why I think you're not clear. It was partly because 4mask lumped you in with TDS (who I think is scum, and am thus unwilling to believe) and partly because 4mask's logic is quite flawed, so I don't think it clears anyone.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 03, 2015, 04:46:41 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 03, 2015, 04:50:32 pm
Tiruin, since we know that TDS changeling you, shouldn't you know what his initial powers were?...I posted everything in that log.
Considering the first instance--no, I have no idea who exactly did what, as it REALLY DOES SEEM instantaneous. :I
I mean seriously. Look at that log! I can't make head or tail from the first iteration(?) other than I got hit by 2 Changelings.
Which reminds me on public query...
NQT: If a person gets hit by multiple changelings, what happens to their role and to the changeling-sender's role? Do both people who targeted that person get a copy of their target's role?
Post by: Tiruin on March 03, 2015, 05:07:18 pm
It was in an 'Error' tab. I am glad for browser history.
Tiruin, what happened to your three changelings?...Like I know? :v
Basically, the log I posted was what happened in chronological order, without me doing anything whatsoever.
But if you want me to guess...I have no idea. I think someone *wiped it out but the proceeding posts of today make me doubt that.
*5 - Delete (One of the target's powers or autos (determined randomly) is permanently removed.)
...
NQT: If Delete is used on someone and there are multiples of the determined power/auto, does only one of the stack get permanently removed or does the whole similarity get deleted?
If I had any idea at all as to what just happened, then I'd mention it. Currently, I'm powerless but my vote!
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 03, 2015, 05:10:52 pm
Somewhat irrelevant considering they wouldn't have known they were targeting either of them until they mentioned it in the thread.Mask:What's to stop a scum player simply getting their guilty conscience cleansed off them before the end of the day and then buying it back from the shop the next day so they can do it to someone else? It also seems entirely possible to me that a town player could be trying to either get lucky and put guilty conscience on one of the scum, or they're just seeing how players react to getting the flaw. Someone immediately unvoting after getting besmirched would seem more likely to be scum to me.Except neither hector13 nor Tiruin strike me as anyone's top scum picks.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2015, 05:40:46 pm
Deus Asmoth: Flaws can only be taken at the beginning of the game, so short of having another scum member besmirch you with it again (which would put them in the line of fire for this lynch, so it wouldn't make a difference) or you get REALLY lucky with a curse, you're not getting it back. As such, that particular argument is invalid. If a town player is actually doing it, they are being a bad, bad townie: removing a vote from the town is a MUCH bigger deal than removing a vote from the scum, since the town is the majority over the scum. When I'm looking at a negative-impact power usage for towniness, there are three questions I ask: will it's use on a townie hurt the town, will it's use on a scum hurt the scum, and will it give the user a personal benefit. The third question is because if a power does not personally benefit the user, it is more likely to hurt town than scum in the hands of a townie. The answer to these questions for besmirching guilty conscience is yes, not really, and no. Thus, if someone ACTUALLY did that as a townie, they are a bad, bad townie and didn't think it through. Additionally, while scum players will treat guilty conscience like unable to vote with regards to using their vote (since they either know who the other scum are or know who some of the scum are and don't want to risk hitting a town), a town player has two options: treat it as if unable to vote and look like a scum, or continue voting and risk a double-kill if a mislynch happens. Because the town is in the majority, it is more likely for the power to hit town if used by a town AND it hurts the town more because the vote is still the primary weapon of the town, since it's the one weapon we have that is difficult to get around.
hector13: There are POSSIBLE holes, but I'm using Occam's razor here. I'll apply it to my theory of the scum using besmirch to your theories.
Vote stealing: Theoretically possible, and certainly a possibility re: Varee's vote not showing up, but it doesn't discount my theory: to the contrary, it strengthens the idea that there is a vote-fuckery scumteam in play. While it would mean that flabort is not necessarily cleared, if the scumteam stole his vote why would he claim unable to vote when he didn't have it? Lying is, under most circumstances, an anti-town proposition.
One curse and one besmirch: Also a possibility, but Occam's Razor. The odds are, particularly since they happened on different game days, that it was the same person striking twice with a besmirch.
Tiruin and TDS lying: Theoretically a possibility, but this would require TDS to be in on it, meaning that TDS and Tiruin are on the same scumteam. Right now, I'm more inclined to believe that it's someone else, but this is a possibility to consider.
Persus13: First of all, defending another player from a legitimate attack is scummy as shit. Second of all, Shakerag's answer depended on an assumption he made about OSG rather than anything OSG said in the thread, and OSG has already given his answer. Additionally, I find scumhunting the "normal way" to be extremely inefficient, and what I'm doing right now (action analysis) is how town won the first CYOM and Supernatural 7, in the first case lynching Deathsword/you because you were the most likely converter and the second by figuring out who the possibilities were and who was clean. Both of these have some room for error, because one was a CYOM and the other we didn't know what the bad guy's powers were, but we went with the most likely option and won the game that way.
hector13 again: I didn't say it cleared anyone entirely, but certain people are cleared of being the one distributing guilty conscience. Additionally, Tiruin was one of the people who GAINED guilty conscience, so unless she's lying about that (which would nullify my entire argument to begin with, so it wouldn't matter whether or not TDS was telling the truth with regards to my argument), she's cleared of being the one doing it. Do you believe that she is lying about gaining guilty conscience?
Everyone: Even if I can't post, I can see everything you are posting if I have access to wifi, thus why I got back to you so soon after school ended. I wrote this up as your posts came in, I just wasn't able to post directly to the forums (I get your posts in my email). Also, I see everything you put in spoilers, so even though anything that you said in spoilers I had already written in my post you shouldn't do that in the future to "avoid influencing the response".
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 03, 2015, 07:09:41 pm
Persus lol wut?
I explained that he had failed to mention that he'd kept his other powers, and listed his flaws as if he'd just gained them. This made me think he'd been changeling'd. I never mentioned him using it.
Also, wasn't one of his flaws dense and another mercenary? Can't check now, at work, but I would think that if he had those flaws, he'd be unable to use changeling on Tiruin. TDS is a better lynch choice, especially if you suspect he's in a team with annyone
Wait what? You're saying that I'm scummy because Persus thinks you're on a scumteam with me based on a false assumption? If I didn't have Guilty Conscience, I'd vote for you.
Anyway, I also ended up with Guilty Conscience this morning and so I'm going to Unvote before I forget.
Post by: Tiruin on March 03, 2015, 07:15:10 pm
Anyway, I also ended up with Guilty Conscience this morning and so I'm going to Unvote before I forget.'This morning' = when you woke up and checked the forum or...at the start of D2 or...?
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 03, 2015, 07:22:00 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 03, 2015, 07:25:41 pm
Persus lol wut?Unvote. Okay, thanks, I misunderstood that post then. Yes, he had dense and mercenary. You can vote now, but couldn't day 1, correct? Is there any additional reasons to yesterday why you're voting TDS?
I explained that he had failed to mention that he'd kept his other powers, and listed his flaws as if he'd just gained them. This made me think he'd been changeling'd. I never mentioned him using it.
Also, wasn't one of his flaws dense and another mercenary? Can't check now, at work, but I would think that if he had those flaws, he'd be unable to use changeling on Tiruin. TDS is a better lynch choice, especially if you suspect he's in a team with annyone
Persus13: First of all, defending another player from a legitimate attack is scummy as shit. Second of all, Shakerag's answer depended on an assumption he made about OSG rather than anything OSG said in the thread, and OSG has already given his answer. Additionally, I find scumhunting the "normal way" to be extremely inefficient, and what I'm doing right now (action analysis) is how town won the first CYOM and Supernatural 7, in the first case lynching Deathsword/you because you were the most likely converter and the second by figuring out who the possibilities were and who was clean. Both of these have some room for error, because one was a CYOM and the other we didn't know what the bad guy's powers were, but we went with the most likely option and won the game that way.Yes, defending another player against a legitimate attack is pretty scummy, but so is failing to question other people's attacks unless they have a test or something going on Did OSG fail to answer your question before shakerag stepped in and did shakerag's response change how OSG would have answered?. Secondly, Super 7 we were multiple days in and an inspection role plus a bunch of claimed power roles telling us the truth about things, and CYOM we had Fortune Teller being really broken and OP causing an early mass claim. Your action analysis doesn't work because there are plenty of unaccounted for variables. Like the fact that I used up my action for D2 recalling changeling on February 27 at 10 PM EST, which is exactly the time Tiruin lost all of her changelings.
OrigamiScienceGuy: you suddenly switched to voting Peradon after saying you viewed him as town when he was about to be lynched because he was giving up. This seems scummy, but more just a mistake, than a scummy thing to do. Who are your top three suspects currently?
Good point. Still, why would a town player randomly target players and give them guilty conscience, especially since it would also require themselves to have guilty conscience in order to do it. It would just make several players very nervous about lynching people.Somewhat irrelevant considering they wouldn't have known they were targeting either of them until they mentioned it in the thread.Mask:What's to stop a scum player simply getting their guilty conscience cleansed off them before the end of the day and then buying it back from the shop the next day so they can do it to someone else? It also seems entirely possible to me that a town player could be trying to either get lucky and put guilty conscience on one of the scum, or they're just seeing how players react to getting the flaw. Someone immediately unvoting after getting besmirched would seem more likely to be scum to me.Except neither hector13 nor Tiruin strike me as anyone's top scum picks.
Post by: flabort on March 03, 2015, 07:32:20 pm
For example, misinterpretation of posts (Although I guess I left it open to misinterpretation this afternoon), tunneling, and now I'm back to this post:
So HOW did you changeling Tiruin if it costs XP for you to do so, but cannot earn any?
Yep ::) (in a few rounds, actually).
I gainedand then losttwo copies of Changeling. I also now have Afflicted, Mercenary, Dense, and no more XP.
PPE: never mind, the post 2x^ answers it.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 03, 2015, 07:38:04 pm
OrigamiScienceGuy: you suddenly switched to voting Peradon after saying you viewed him as town when he was about to be lynched because he was giving up. This seems scummy, but more just a mistake, than a scummy thing to do. Who are your top three suspects currently?
There was a multi-page argument about my decision. I really don't feel like starting one again.
The people I think are scum:
TDS: for his complete lack of any analysis. He gives big posts with tons of information, but doesn't do anything with that information. His readlists are also not very detailed and just in general lackluster.
Varee: haven't seen any scumhunting at all.
My third pick is either Deus Asmoth and Hector13, but I am more neutral about them.
Post by: hector13 on March 03, 2015, 07:42:59 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 03, 2015, 07:45:45 pm
Post by: flabort on March 03, 2015, 07:46:25 pm
Persus: Additional reasons: I didn't like his first vote for OSG, I didn't like how when he revoted he just fabricated two more reasons, I didn't like how when he disappeared everyone changed the lynch, I didn't like the way he misinterpreted my and peradon's posts (seemingly on purpose), I don't like how he wrote the post I just quoted to make me think he'd been changeling'd at that time (Him being changeling'd at D2 start is mighty convenient, considering this is the first I heard of it).
Post by: hector13 on March 03, 2015, 07:49:17 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 03, 2015, 08:07:24 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 03, 2015, 08:08:02 pm
Origami, I've been reasonably active, but you see me as more scummy than other people who haven't been around, and thus haven't been scumhunting? (Tiruin, Shakerag etc.)I did promise a post and it shall occur!
Technical difficulties ahoy. ;_;
I have been keeping note however--so any queries anyone has to me, please ask!
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2015, 10:28:34 pm
Like the fact that I used up my action for D2 recalling changeling on February 27 at 10 PM EST, which is exactly the time Tiruin lost all of her changelings.Can anyone else confirm this?
hector13: You didn't answer my question. I asked whether you think Tiruin is lying about gaining guilty conscience.
Post by: Varee on March 03, 2015, 11:44:41 pm
]Like the fact that I used up my action for D2 recalling changeling on February 27 at 10 PM EST, which is exactly the time Tiruin lost all of her changelings.Can anyone else confirm this?
hector13: You didn't answer my question. I asked whether you think Tiruin is lying about gaining guilty conscience.
I can confirm that.
Also shakerag I will answer you question when I remind myself of what it is refering too.
Post by: notquitethere on March 04, 2015, 09:32:01 am
"Yes, yes," says an abbot, "this is all very dramatic, but what are we doing about the malefactors?"
Votes
4maskwolf
Shakerag
Varee - [1] - Deus Asmoth
origamiscienceguy
Flabort
Hector13
Tiruin
TheDarkStar - [3] - Flabort, Hector13, origamiscienceguy
Deus Asmoth - [1] - Shakerag
Persus13 - [1] 4maskwolf
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, White, Gold, Silver, Blue, Orange, Brown, Purple, Turquoise, Yellow, Black, Violet
Dead Masks
Spoiler: Cream (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
The day ends 12AM GMT on the 5th (in about 9.5 hours), or on a hammer of 6 votes.
Tiruin
NQT: If a person gets hit by multiple changelings, what happens to their role and to the changeling-sender's role? Do both people who targeted that person get a copy of their target's role?I direct you to the relevant section in the OP:
As this is a nightless mafia, all actions resolve in the order in which they're submitted
If someone is hit with a Changeling, their role is swapped. If they're hit by a second Changeling, their new role is swapped with a third role. The first person to target the victim would get the victim's role, the second person would get the first person's role (or whatever was left of it after the victim bought, sold, swapped things etc.). Unlike in regular mafia there is never any action ordering conflict as the actions happen in the order in which they're submitted or queued.
NQT: If Delete is used on someone and there are multiples of the determined power/auto, does only one of the stack get permanently removed or does the whole similarity get deleted?Delete only removes one copy of the power.
4maskwolf
NQT: Would a player who is blackmailed have their vote disappear/not appear in the votecount?A blackmailed player is treated exactly the same way as a player with the 'unable-to-vote' flaw, and their vote would not appear on the vote-count.
Post by: flabort on March 04, 2015, 09:41:45 am
What about Recall? If someone recalled changeling and Tiruin had three copies of it, would they all be sold or only one?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 04, 2015, 09:42:33 am
Varee may have been blackmailed on D1, due to his lack of a vote, which provides more evidence for my theory that one scumteam (be it the only one or one of two) has a role based around vote fuckery. My vote... urk.
You guys sort this out, I'm going to school, and may all hell freeze over in my absence. My vote stays right where it is, particularly because despite claiming not to have guilty conscience Persus13 ISN'T VOTING!
Post by: Varee on March 04, 2015, 10:07:30 am
Post by: Varee on March 04, 2015, 10:23:58 am
Post by: notquitethere on March 04, 2015, 10:32:34 am
NQT: I had moved my vote to TDS.Ach, I actually double-checked this time. I think my wide-monitor makes it very easy to miss votes, especially little ones made up of only three letters hidden in a post.
If someone recalled changeling and Tiruin had three copies of it, would they all be sold or only one?Recall removes all copies of a power held by anyone in the game.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 04, 2015, 10:40:20 am
Recall sell all copy of a power for everyone. At elast that is what happen to my changelingsI can verify. Both my changelings were sold.
Post by: Shakerag on March 04, 2015, 11:11:37 am
That's got to be the weakest justification for a vote that I've seen so far. Why would I, as scum, be less careful with who I voted for or claimed to scumread than I would as town?Why would you, as town, be less careful with who you voted for or claimed to scumread than you would as scum? Maybe it's just me, but I think you should be careful regardless of alignment. And your lack of care I find suspicious.
Quote
What's your opinion of Persus and Tiruin, since both of them have done less scumhunting than me?I like how you're trying to shift attention off of you on to someone else. As I said above, I can never read Tiruin (and she's having net problems right now anyway), and Persus13 hasn't really pinged on my radar. I suppose I will give Persus13 a closer look on your recommendation, but I still don't like how you're all "Hey! Don't look at me! Look at these two other guys who are way scummier!"
Quote
And what's your justification for doing less scumhunting than I have yourself if you're going to try lynch me based on inactivity?-I'm not trying to lynch you on inactivity.
-My justification for not having a high post count (because I question your assertion that I'm doing less scumhunting) is having a full time job during the day, taking care of a disabled SO in the evenings, and being an alcoholic narcoleptic at night. So I post when I can. As I said before, I try to get out at least one significant post per weekday.
Someone immediately unvoting after getting besmirched would seem more likely to be scum to me.I doubt scum would immediately unvote after get besmirched, unless it was right before end of day or someone was at L-1. Having said that, pretend you're town for a second. What are the odds you would be voting at day end if you had besmirched?
4maskwolf:
Shakerag: Quit defending, OSG can take care of himself.I know that. Big boy games, remember? But I do like to call out possible bullshit when I see it.
Persus13:
Start of D2 there were two vote candidates, TDS from D1 and OSG. In a game like this, I feel that there would be more lynch cases and if the lynch leader was scum there would be an alternative lynch case by the scum in order to get someone who wasn't their buddy lynched. Now I just think it was a sign of low activity or something as people are more active and votes are more all over the place.On one hand I want to ask why every living player isn't a lynch candidate, but I think you're using the term "lynch candidate" to refer to the player(s) who are being voted for by a number of people. Is that correct?
Varee:
*sigh*
Here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6065412#msg6065412) and here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6066824#msg6066824) and here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6066972#msg6066972).
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 04, 2015, 01:14:02 pm
Standby, there's more to say but I can do it from a computer so it's not so infuriating.
Post by: hector13 on March 04, 2015, 01:54:37 pm
Like the fact that I used up my action for D2 recalling changeling on February 27 at 10 PM EST, which is exactly the time Tiruin lost all of her changelings.Can anyone else confirm this?
hector13: You didn't answer my question. I asked whether you think Tiruin is lying about gaining guilty conscience.
Apologies. Worst insomnia of my existence. I do not think Tiruin is lying, but neither am I certain Tiruin is not lying, purely because of the nature of the game (confirming things requires powers, which requires targeting masks, not people)
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 04, 2015, 02:04:49 pm
Deus Asmoth:You're just trying to flip my point here without doing anything to refute it. If a player should be equally careful regardless of alignment, how does making a mistake=scum?That's got to be the weakest justification for a vote that I've seen so far. Why would I, as scum, be less careful with who I voted for or claimed to scumread than I would as town?Why would you, as town, be less careful with who you voted for or claimed to scumread than you would as scum? Maybe it's just me, but I think you should be careful regardless of alignment. And your lack of care I find suspicious.
Quote
I like how you're contiuing to ignore my point. You say I'm scummy for not scumhunting enough. I've pointed out that there are at least two other players in the same situation that you've ignored with little to no reason. Why are you giving Tiruin a free pass instead of asking her more questions to get a better feel for her play if you find it difficult to read her?QuoteWhat's your opinion of Persus and Tiruin, since both of them have done less scumhunting than me?I like how you're trying to shift attention off of you on to someone else.
Someone immediately unvoting after getting besmirched would seem more likely to be scum to me.I doubt scum would immediately unvote after get besmirched, unless it was right before end of day or someone was at L-1. Having said that, pretend you're town for a second. What are the odds you would be voting at day end if you had besmirched?[/quote]
How certain am I that the person I'm voting for is scum? How many people are still alive? How many people are voting for that person? What was the implication that I'm not town in that question supposed to do?
Persus, do you think players should defend each other from questioning? If so, don't you think that implies them knowing each other's alignment and having a reason to not want each other dead?
And why aren't you voting?
Mask, cannot confirm, I've been selling my changelings.
Hector: How certain are you about Tiruin's claim on a scale of one to ten?
Tiruin, if you're aboe to answer questions, would you be able to post a short form version of what you're planning to post?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 04, 2015, 02:15:13 pm
hector13: It's fine, I just wanted it answered before day end.
Shakerag: I see.
I'm just going to start typing and see if I can work something out, so what comes next may be nothing of relevance at all. As such, I will spoiler it.
Spoiler: Rambling (click to show/hide)
Varee: Did you use the copycat?
notquitethere: Do players know if someone tries to kill them if they are kill resistant?
Post by: Persus13 on March 04, 2015, 02:52:55 pm
You guys sort this out, I'm going to school, and may all hell freeze over in my absence. My vote stays right where it is, particularly because despite claiming not to have guilty conscience Persus13 ISN'T VOTING!My vote is my own. I also needed to work out who is scummy.
There was also a kill yesterday. But why wasn't there a kill today?I recalled kill D1, that may have had something to do with it.
Persus13:Yes, I am using lynch candidate to refer to that. If it's confusing I'll try to find a better term for it.Start of D2 there were two vote candidates, TDS from D1 and OSG. In a game like this, I feel that there would be more lynch cases and if the lynch leader was scum there would be an alternative lynch case by the scum in order to get someone who wasn't their buddy lynched. Now I just think it was a sign of low activity or something as people are more active and votes are more all over the place.On one hand I want to ask why every living player isn't a lynch candidate, but I think you're using the term "lynch candidate" to refer to the player(s) who are being voted for by a number of people. Is that correct?
Persus, do you think players should defend each other from questioning? If so, don't you think that implies them knowing each other's alignment and having a reason to not want each other dead?Defending another player is an inevitable consequence of scumhunting another players attack, so yes I think players should defend other players from attacks, if they are scumhunting another player by doing so or they believe that they have information that the other player doesn't that puts things in a different light (ex. cop knowing a player is town). Yes, defending another player implies that the defender may know or suspect the alignment of the defendee, but one player defending another player isn't always scum defending scum.
Screw it, OSG. Peradon was actually doing exactly what you are supposed to do if you are a town player about to be lynched, which was give reads and claim as much as possible. I don't want to restart the whole giving up argument early D2, but I do think this is scummy enough to make me want to lynch you after reading through this again.So, I'm going to go ahead and post my reads for analysis when I flip town:You sound like you are giving up. Or trying to guilt-trip us into unvoting you. This is extremely anti-town as a townie would know he is innocent and try to persuade us rather than do this.
...
Anyway, I'll reveal my powers and such if there is no chance that I get saved. For now, my fate is in your hands.
Unvote TDS
Vote Peradon
Post by: hector13 on March 04, 2015, 02:59:19 pm
Hector: How certain are you about Tiruin's claim on a scale of one to ten?
More confident that they're telling the truth than lying, I'd say 7.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 04, 2015, 03:02:06 pm
Screw it, OSG. Peradon was actually doing exactly what you are supposed to do if you are a town player about to be lynched, which was give reads and claim as much as possible.Is it that hard for scum to do the exact same thing? Especially in this game where the scum can basically claim any powers and nobody would be able to verify them. I don't see any reason why the scum wouldn't be able to post reads or make a claim. The only way we would possibly be able to verify a scum member is if they claim their mask, which Peradon didn't.
Post by: hector13 on March 04, 2015, 03:09:04 pm
Is it that hard for scum to do the exact same thing? Especially in this game where the scum can basically claim any powers and nobody would be able to verify them. I don't see any reason why the scum wouldn't be able to post reads or make a claim. The only way we would possibly be able to verify a scum member is if they claim their mask, which Peradon didn't.I'd like to point out you were freaking over his emotional response and "guilt trip", not that he posted his reads.
It was also the end of the day, I would imagine that everyone that had an action had used it by that point (especially considering the two extensions) so nobody would be able to verify even if he did claim his mask, anyway. This would only reveal his powers/upgrades/flaws, which I'm not sure you can draw much information from in regards to alignment anyway.
Post by: notquitethere on March 04, 2015, 03:10:28 pm
notquitethere: Do players know if someone tries to kill them if they are kill resistant?No, they're not informed.
Persus
Replacement request[/b. This is probably not going to be filled until Day 3, but I have a lot of stuff going on right now and this game doesn't really have nights to allow me to take a break on it and having to read through 40 pages of posts and convulted and actions is not something I want to deal with right now.That's a shame, I'll see if Cheeetar can replace in.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 04, 2015, 03:12:06 pm
It was also the end of the day, I would imagine that everyone that had an action had used it by that point (especially considering the two extensions) so nobody would be able to verify even if he did claim his mask.My point exactly. There was no way to verify if he told the truth in his role, so there is no reason why the scum couldn't just make up some powers.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 04, 2015, 03:22:39 pm
There was also a kill yesterday. But why wasn't there a kill today?It also could be that Deathsword tried to kill someone and got reflected. He had the ability after all. Maybe the scum are using a different method of killing. Poison or infect maybe.
Post by: flabort on March 04, 2015, 03:46:50 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 04, 2015, 05:59:35 pm
OSG
flabort
hector
I just got sap and other people probably did too. Also, someone got 11 XP from me Day 1. I started with a Changeling-based role with Unstoppable and now someone has it. That's all the info I have time to post before day end, I think.
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 04, 2015, 06:00:54 pm
So, I'm about to be lynched (in about a minute?). I've been busy, which is a shame because I wanted to play a bit more. I guess I'll leave my suspicious:
OSG
flabort
hector
I just got sap and other people probably did too. Also, someone got 11 XP from me Day 1. I started with a Changeling-based role with Unstoppable and now someone has it. That's all the info I have time to post before day end, I think.
Wait, I have an hour to live. I'll get more posted.
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 04, 2015, 06:08:25 pm
I'm just going to start typing and see if I can work something out, so what comes next may be nothing of relevance at all. As such, I will spoiler it.Spoiler: Rambling (click to show/hide)
We also have a few saps in play - I just got one and someone sapped 11xp off me at the beginning of the day. Also, I bought a kill and used it (I'm claiming now in case I guessed right).
Post by: flabort on March 04, 2015, 06:23:04 pm
What are your reasons for those being your scum picks?
Post by: hector13 on March 04, 2015, 06:24:00 pm
Post by: flabort on March 04, 2015, 06:29:06 pm
And what does he mean, 'in case I got it right'? Which mask did he use the kill on and why?
Post by: hector13 on March 04, 2015, 06:30:45 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 04, 2015, 06:32:09 pm
Post by: hector13 on March 04, 2015, 06:33:17 pm
All it tells us is you're desperate.
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 04, 2015, 06:36:59 pm
After thinking about it, Fortune Teller might have been a better alternative. Make sure to have someone do that next time.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 04, 2015, 06:45:26 pm
You realize that you don't know my mask, right?
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 04, 2015, 06:47:27 pm
You are announcing that you are going to kill me?
You realize that you don't know my mask, right?
I was going to until I realized that I didn't know your mask. Unfortunately, I had already bought the power. I announced that you were going to be my target as part of revealing what I know to the town. Since I'm going to die, I don't have the luxury of waiting or keeping things secret.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 04, 2015, 06:57:38 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 04, 2015, 07:01:57 pm
I was going to kill OSG. At this point, it would be beneficial to know his alignment and there isn't a better way in the little time left. Additionally, there's no point arguing for myself because several people voting for me are active at a different time of day.Unless you want to kill Tiruin, I'd advise not killing randomly.
After thinking about it, Fortune Teller might have been a better alternative. Make sure to have someone do that next time.
Post by: Persus13 on March 04, 2015, 07:03:23 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 04, 2015, 07:05:27 pm
Varee has died. Varee was a third-party doctor. Varee has lost the game.
Spoiler: Varee (click to show/hide)
Everybody who isn't minimalist add the 'kill' power to your role.
Please don't post as the day has now ended.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 04, 2015, 07:08:57 pm
Well, now we know who the networker was.
Post by: notquitethere on March 04, 2015, 07:10:29 pm
"Now, let's be reasonable here..." he began.
They weren't.
"You wouldn't have thought a glowing ball of unholy energy would bleed so much," mused one of the monks, wiping clean his knives. "Still, there's no chance he was the malefactor as he didn't have the rune of Innocence and everyone knows all evildoers appear contrary to what they are..."
And so the harrowing continued.
TheDarkStar is dead. He was town.
Spoiler: TheDarkStar (click to show/hide)
On Day 1, Turquoise targeted Bronze.
Spoiler: Final Vote Count (click to show/hide)
Everyone who is not Dense, gain +1 xp. Everyone who is Insidious gain +1xp. If you met the conditions for Bloodythirsty, gain +1xp. If you are Simple, make sure you do not gain more than +1xp. The thread will be locked while lynch triggered effects are implemented.
Post by: notquitethere on March 04, 2015, 07:14:25 pm
Three Dead Town Totally Not Suspicious We Promise
The remaining monks sighed as they gazed at the list of suspects. The malefactors, of course, were silently chuckling behind theirs masks. This was going sooooo smoothly...
Votes
4maskwolf
Shakerag
Varee
origamiscienceguy
Flabort
Hector13
Tiruin
Deus Asmoth
Cheeetar
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, White, Silver, Blue, Orange, Brown, Purple, Turquoise, Yellow, Black
Dead Masks
Spoiler: Cream (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Gold (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Violet (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Updated List of Costs (click to show/hide)
The day ends 12AM GMT on the 10th, or on a hammer of 5 votes. The kill action won't come into effect until Friday 12AM. I'm out of town for a few days, so your queued actions will still happen in the right order (before actions people declare D3), I just won't process them until I get back.
Cheeetar has replaced Persus13
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 04, 2015, 07:25:07 pm
This is what you get for not listening to me, I suppose. I TOLD you who action logic dictated the most likely scum was, and you ignored me.
Yes, I'm pissed off. You all managed to go and [EXPLETIVE_DELETED] things up again with your little scumhunting routines.
Also, I totally called Varee being a doctor, I'm just too lazy to dig up that post. I think it was my second reads post.
Best case scenario, there are five town left. Worst case, four, but that may actually be the best case because in that case there are two scumteams, since I'm pretty sure NQT wouldn't put one four-man scumteam against seven town.
Now I've gotta go back and look at stuff, gimme a while.
Post by: hector13 on March 04, 2015, 07:29:21 pm
You did call Varee on being doctor, but he wasn't exactly being coy about it.
You seem to be trying to paint yourself as townie-extraordinaire there, 4mask.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 04, 2015, 07:33:02 pm
You seem to be trying to paint yourself as townie-extraordinaire there, 4mask.No, I'm just fucking pissed off.
Your logic had holes in it. Can you blame people for not following you on that?What holes? Do tell, oh master strategist.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 04, 2015, 07:33:54 pm
Post by: hector13 on March 04, 2015, 07:35:45 pm
You seem to be trying to paint yourself as townie-extraordinaire there, 4mask.No, I'm just fucking pissed off.Your logic had holes in it. Can you blame people for not following you on that?What holes? Do tell, oh master strategist.
I pointed them out earlier, and I'm too tired to go looking for them.
And you, Hector, seem to be immediately after a mislynch trying to find someone to blame.
Who was I blaming?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 04, 2015, 07:37:06 pm
I pointed them out earlier, and I'm too tired to go looking for them.All of your "holes" were alternative proposals for situations, all of which ignoring Occam's Razor. They were all fringe situations that were far less likely than what I was proposing.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 04, 2015, 07:39:09 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 04, 2015, 07:45:29 pm
Post by: hector13 on March 04, 2015, 07:48:28 pm
I pointed them out earlier, and I'm too tired to go looking for them.All of your "holes" were alternative proposals for situations, all of which ignoring Occam's Razor. They were all fringe situations that were far less likely than what I was proposing.
How was it ignoring Occam's Razor? Occam's Razor says that the scenario with the fewest assumptions is correct.
You assumed that both Tiruin and I were telling the truth. (2) You assumed Besmirch was what caused people to get a Guilty Conscience. (3) You assumed a townie wouldn't be the one to do it. (4)
You then assumed that everyone on the Peradon mislynch was clear. (7) You assumed flabort had UtV. (8) You assumed (at that point) that DA was clear because he was voting, (9) and then assumed that left Persus. (10)
So fuck off with your 10 assumptions, all of which could easily be wrong.
I'm not blaming 4mask, just that his butthurt at everyone else for getting it wrong is stupid. He changed his vote to Perry with fuck all on him D1, and that caused a mislynch too. He's as much to blame for our current situation than anyone else.
Post by: hector13 on March 04, 2015, 08:09:07 pm
Tiredness and RL shocks make me less patient. I do not agree, as you might have surmised, that Occam's Razor was applied properly, or perhaps it was that there was not enough information with which to apply it reasonably. Thus, I believe your assertion that you "told us" that we were wrong to be false.
That does not excuse the outburst, but I am sorry for the "shouty" nature of it, nonetheless.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 04, 2015, 08:11:47 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 04, 2015, 08:15:46 pm
I still stand by the essence of what I said though, which is that your argument is flawed.
Post by: hector13 on March 04, 2015, 08:17:47 pm
Post by: Varee on March 04, 2015, 08:28:42 pm
Just one more day .....
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 04, 2015, 08:32:19 pm
Ah you are a lovely and sympathetic person.My insult was uncalled for, yours isn't any better. I will refrain from insulting you in the future, I wish I hadn't in the past, and I hope you extend the same to me.
Post by: Persus13 on March 04, 2015, 08:35:54 pm
I agree with this argument (cause I made the same argument yesterday), but I'd like to point that everyone on Peradon's lynch and Flabort having unable to vote are not assumptions because having guilty conscience makes it impossible for them to be on the lynch or unable to vote. Do you think 4maskwolf is scum because of this? In any case, using Occam's Razor at all in a mafia game isn't the best idea because it eliminates other scenarios that seem improbable (Webadicts BYOR comes to mind where we learned that instead of your standard scum team, the game was actually against 4 or 5 SKs, something no one predicted)I pointed them out earlier, and I'm too tired to go looking for them.All of your "holes" were alternative proposals for situations, all of which ignoring Occam's Razor. They were all fringe situations that were far less likely than what I was proposing.
How was it ignoring Occam's Razor? Occam's Razor says that the scenario with the fewest assumptions is correct.
You assumed that both Tiruin and I were telling the truth. (2) You assumed Besmirch was what caused people to get a Guilty Conscience. (3) You assumed a townie wouldn't be the one to do it. (4)
You then assumed that everyone on the Peradon mislynch was clear. (7) You assumed flabort had UtV. (8) You assumed (at that point) that DA was clear because he was voting, (9) and then assumed that left Persus. (10)
So fuck off with your 10 assumptions, all of which could easily be wrong.
I'm not blaming 4mask, just that his butthurt at everyone else for getting it wrong is stupid. He changed his vote to Perry with fuck all on him D1, and that caused a mislynch too. He's as much to blame for our current situation than anyone else.
OSG:
And you, Hector, seem to be immediately after a mislynch trying to find someone to blame.Given that hector did not actually vote 4maskwolf, why are you accusing him of pushing for his lynch? And how would you know that 4maskwolf being lynched would result in a mislynch?
PPE:
4maskwolf:
flabort is guaranteed to have unable to vote, he proved it. Besmirch is the most likely option by any reckoning. If a townie did it then they are a horrible townie, which is also fairly obvious. The Peradon mislynch people are obviously clear you ass, they didn't die when he was lynched and it happened again D2. It comes down to between Deus Asmoth and Persus, and yes, I considered Persus more likely. That's THREE assumptions: That you and Tiruin were telling the truth, and that it's Persus over Deus Asmoth. You're either being oblivious as fuck or are scum, and I'm pretty damn sure it's the later, so have a vote. hector13.Do have reasons for voting hector13 besides the fact that he disagrees with you? And saying besmirch is what happened is an assumption, albeit one that is a most likely. What do you think about TDS also having guilty conscience, where do you think he got that (He can't have gotten it from changelinged Tiruin because his vote was on Peradon)?
PPEx2:
My apologies for my outburst... that was uncalled for. I'm in a bad mood for a variety of reasons, most of which have nothing to do with mafia, but I snapped and that was bad.Unvote then, you being upset explains all of your D3 posts so far. Sorry to hear you are in a bad mood, although playing Mafia might not be the best course of action while in a bad mood (although Mafia drunk is probably a worse decision)
I still stand by the essence of what I said though, which is that your argument is flawed.
OSG consider this vote in place of the FOS I gave you above.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 04, 2015, 08:39:37 pm
I actually do. From past experience, the last person who strongly disagreed with my action analysis of mafia was Leafsnail, all the way back in CYOM 1, and he was scum. hector13 is following the exact same attack patterns when it comes to addressing my ideas.
That being said, I seem to recall Jim Groovester, as town, did the same thing in the same game, so unvote.
I need to think and reread before I can give you all a good analysis of what is going on.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 04, 2015, 08:42:06 pm
OSG:I need to apologize as well. I was really mad at TDS for randomly killing someone, and so I wasn't thinking straight. I don't have any evidence for or against hector or 4mask.And you, Hector, seem to be immediately after a mislynch trying to find someone to blame.Given that hector did not actually vote 4maskwolf, why are you accusing him of pushing for his lynch? And how would you know that 4maskwolf being lynched would result in a mislynch?
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 04, 2015, 10:03:46 pm
BLAHHHHHHH.Sorry Varee. I got a bit frustrated and randomly killed someone.
Just one more day .....
Bah.
Post by: flabort on March 04, 2015, 11:09:07 pm
CRASH
READS
GONE
RAGHRAAGARAHAGARAGH
WHY DIDN'T SAVE STUPID FLABORT
Post by: Cheeetar on March 05, 2015, 03:50:23 am
(Also: Any general gameplay tips for CYOM would be appreciated.)
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 05, 2015, 04:26:51 am
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 05, 2015, 11:31:30 am
BLAHHHHHHH.Sorry Varee. I got a bit frustrated and randomly killed someone.
Just one more day .....
Bah.
Post by: hector13 on March 05, 2015, 12:43:40 pm
Ah you are a lovely and sympathetic person.My insult was uncalled for, yours isn't any better. I will refrain from insulting you in the future, I wish I hadn't in the past, and I hope you extend the same to me.
Of course, that's why I fucked off at the time :P I was also experiencing a bad mood from RL issues, and I was going to say something much worse than I did, but the tiny voice of reason spoke up "Is that really going to make you feel any better, and is it going to make the situation better?" so I buggered off to calm down. Sometimes it's nice being an adult.
I appreciate your argument about 10 (some of which was me just being a dick) vs 3, but you can only be sure that the people on the lynch didn't have a Guilty Conscience at the time of the lynch. Given that the scum can only kill one person, they're not wasting an action by copying Guilty Conscience back on to their team-mate(s) the next day.
I also appreciate that that's making more assumptions than you did, but I don't like the idea of applying Occam's Razor with more than one or two assumptions, because then it's more likely that any assumption you make is going to be wrong, which obviously means any conclusion you draw from it will be flawed. This is more of a personal thing; the variables are many with human behaviour.
It could be that Persus/Cheetar is scum, but I'm not convinced they are from your argument.
Also Origami, 'cause all you seem to have done for the past in-game day or so is make nice, and I'm still not happy with the way you moved your vote on D1.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 05, 2015, 01:09:13 pm
Yes, he kind of admitted it here:So then, if there are two scum teams, there could be at least two more people poisoned (besides Tiruin's that got cleansed).BLAHHHHHHH.Sorry Varee. I got a bit frustrated and randomly killed someone.
Just one more day .....
Bah.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 05, 2015, 01:16:29 pm
- Deathsword: Town
- TheDarkStar: Town
- Peradon: Town
- Varee: 3rd Party
- origamiscienceguy
- Flabort
- Hector13
- Tiruin
- Shakerag
- Deus Asmoth
- Persus13
- 4maskwolf
Spoiler: ramble (click to show/hide)
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2015, 02:42:09 pm
hector13: Yeah, I pretty much buggered off too last night after saying that, which is a good thing for both of us. Obviously any conclusion drawn in this game is going to be flawed, otherwise it wouldn't be mafia, my personal opinion is that action analysis is the least flawed way when compared to scumhunting. Obviously everyone has their own opinions.
Cheeetar, your predecessor once again placed his vote on someone with no votes on them at day end without any explanation, which from my action analysis is suspicious as all getout. However, origamiscienceguy is absolutely either mimicking me in an effort to look townie or just normally trying to look townie, but I'm not reading his most recent post as anything but attempting to look townie without actually putting effort into it. His entire rant talks basically about third parties which don't even necessarily exist in the game, which seems rather silly, since as town you need to hunt the SCUM and not the third-parties. Speaking of which, origamiscienceguy, why FOS flabort for (hypothetically) possessing a harmless role for an unaligned third-party. If he, under your assumption that he is a thief, makes his wincon by using means that do not hurt the town, I see no reason why we should lynch him over scum.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 05, 2015, 02:50:38 pm
Yes, I was copying your rambling strategy because it seems to work. I am not trying to mimic you in any way. I was unaware that using someones strategy is considered mimicking.
\ His entire rant talks basically about third parties which don't even necessarily exist in the game,We know that 3rd parties are in this game. Varee was one.
I was trying to find clues to a third party so we can narrow down the list and therefore get closer to finding scum. If my theory is correct, then the possible scum are:
Origamiscienceguy
4maskwolf
hector13
Shakerag
Deus Asmoth
Cheeetar
and Tiruin
of which 4 out of 7 are scum.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2015, 02:56:57 pm
Since D1 start:
4maskwolf:102 posts
Deus Asmoth: 31 posts
flabort: 37 posts
hector13: 71 posts
origamiscienceguy: 118 posts
Persus13/Cheeetar: 16 posts
Shakerag: 14 posts
Tiruin: 31 posts (apparently, but the real question is how many have content)
If I'm reading this correctly, then origamiscienceguy and myself we have half of the posts of still-alive players in the thread, which is pretty impressive considering I have three rather small time-slots during the day to post anything anywhere on the forums except on weekends. I know people have lives, but it's a problem in mafia when half of the players don't play. flabort has basically disappeared off the face of the earth in this game, Tiruin hasn't posted anything, Persus13 just got replaced out and was actually more active just before he got replaced, and Shakerag posts from time to time but seems to post for a single two-hour-or-so timeslot on weekdays only, leading to limited interaction. Deus Asmoth hasn't said particularly much either. So basically, this entire game has been me, hector13, origamiscienceguy, and the now-dead players talking to each other.
PPE:
I don't want to lynch him, I just want to see his response. The more information, the better. I just FOS'd him to make sure he would respond.You're assuming that there are two third parties because why? Also, my ranting turned up nothing useful, didn't get people talking, so I wouldn't consider it all that effective. I used the word mimicking not as a derrogatory phrase but just to mean that you're copying it, which you admitted to doing. This isn't a bad thing, the bad thing was that I'm getting a sense of "trying to appear town" from your post, not the fact that you copied my posting style: do that all you want, it doesn't bother me.
Yes, I was copying your rambling strategy because it seems to work. I am not trying to mimic you in any way. I was unaware that using someones strategy is considered mimicking.\ His entire rant talks basically about third parties which don't even necessarily exist in the game,We know that 3rd parties are in this game. Varee was one.
I was trying to find clues to a third party so we can narrow down the list and therefore get closer to finding scum. If my theory is correct, then the possible scum are:
Origamiscienceguy
4maskwolf
hector13
Shakerag
Deus Asmoth
Cheeetar
and Tiruin
of which 4 out of 7 are scum.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 05, 2015, 03:02:54 pm
I don't want to lynch him, I just want to see his response. The more information, the better. I just FOS'd him to make sure he would respond.This right here. How would your FoS have any effect whatsoever after you said this?
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 05, 2015, 03:18:33 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 05, 2015, 03:28:33 pm
Post by: Shakerag on March 05, 2015, 03:55:11 pm
You're just trying to flip my point here without doing anything to refute it. If a player should be equally careful regardless of alignment, how does making a mistake=scum?Technically, I think flipping your point just negated the issue, since (as I said) you should be careful about voting whether as town or scum. And making a mistake is not necessarily scummy, but it is something that caught my eye and made me wonder why you could have made the mistake.
Quote
I like how you're contiuing to ignore my point. You say I'm scummy for not scumhunting enough. I've pointed out that there are at least two other players in the same situation that you've ignored with little to no reason. Why are you giving Tiruin a free pass instead of asking her more questions to get a better feel for her play if you find it difficult to read her?I suppose I am just a terrible mafia player for not being able to keep track of all players simultaneously. However, I still don't like you saying, essentially, "You can't call me out for not scumhunting because these two players are scumhunting even less than me!" You're trying to shift my attention off of you and on to Persus13/Tiruin, which is something that doesn't sit right with me.
And as far as Tiruin goes, I've played a number of games with her already, so asking questions specifically to get a feel for her play isn't going to magically happen now if it hasn't already. That said, I still try to keep an eye out for anything I can call her on anyway.
Quote
How certain am I that the person I'm voting for is scum? How many people are still alive? How many people are voting for that person? What was the implication that I'm not town in that question supposed to do?-Not 100%
-9
-3
-Bait you.
Screw it, OSG. Peradon was actually doing exactly what you are supposed to do if you are a town player about to be lynched, which was give reads and claim as much as possible. I don't want to restart the whole giving up argument early D2, but I do think this is scummy enough to make me want to lynch you after reading through this again.
Damn it. Okay, Cheeetar, what do you make of your predecessor's argument?
4maskwolf:
Shakerag posts from time to time but seems to post for a single two-hour-or-so timeslot on weekdays only, leading to limited interaction.
Still have a full-time job.
Post by: flabort on March 05, 2015, 03:56:58 pm
I would have taken this build no matter what alignment I was; only difference is what I would have spent it on.
For example, If I were a thief I wouldn't have bothered with so many powers, just guarding against saps/changeling, and kept most of my points open, instead of buying so may things.
So no, not a thief. Good call, though, I was hoping to be 3rd party so I could be.
Speaking of, anyone else have Inflate from day1?
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 05, 2015, 04:33:09 pm
Shake:
Technically, I think flipping your point just negated the issue, since (as I said) you should be careful about voting whether as town or scum. And making a mistake is not necessarily scummy, but it is something that caught my eye and made me wonder why you could have made the mistake.If you want the actual reason for the mistake, it was caused by me making that post in the last five minutes of my lunch break and not paying close enough attention beforehand due to a variety of reasons that I'm not going to go into.
Quote
I suppose I am just a terrible mafia player for not being able to keep track of all players simultaneously. However, I still don't like you saying, essentially, "You can't call me out for not scumhunting because these two players are scumhunting even less than me!" You're trying to shift my attention off of you and on to Persus13/Tiruin, which is something that doesn't sit right with me.I'm really not. I were at least two other players in the same situation as me, yet you only picked me to question about that behaviour, which I would consider useful information to bear in mind if you get me mislynched.
Quote
Bait me into...? For your question, if only three players are voting for someone out of nine and I think that there's a good chance they're scum, I would vote for them to attempt to prevent vote shenanigans at the end of the day. If there were enough votes on them that the scum team couldn't rig the lynch at the end of the day I'd probably unvote to be safe, giving the guilty conscience as my reason. If the votes were too close for it to be comfortable doing that, I'd leave my vote on them and see where it went from there.QuoteHow certain am I that the person I'm voting for is scum? How many people are still alive? How many people are voting for that person? What was the implication that I'm not town in that question supposed to do?-Not 100%
-9
-3
-Bait you.
Post by: Cheeetar on March 05, 2015, 04:40:36 pm
Persus13Cheeetar:Screw it, OSG. Peradon was actually doing exactly what you are supposed to do if you are a town player about to be lynched, which was give reads and claim as much as possible. I don't want to restart the whole giving up argument early D2, but I do think this is scummy enough to make me want to lynch you after reading through this again.As I mentioned to 4maskwolf, I would just like to point out that we technically tell players in beginner's mafias that what Peradon was doing are scumtells.
Damn it. Okay, Cheeetar, what do you make of your predecessor's argument?
As I see it, Persus's argument was that voting for a person for giving reads and information to town was untenable. While it's true that Peradon was displaying with could conceivably be called a defeatist attitude, I don't necessarily think that's a scumtell at all- for example, in Paranormal 24 you lost hope for a while (and were attacked for it) but were ultimately town. I do think that OSG's vote on Peradon was very lazy, and I'm going to ask OrigamiScienceGuy to elaborate on how he thought Peradon making a 'before I get lynched'-esque post was scummy.
Um. OrigamiScienceGuy, would you elaborate on how you thought Peradon making a 'before I get lynched'-esque post is scummy?
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 05, 2015, 05:00:47 pm
As I see it, Persus's argument was that voting for a person for giving reads and information to town was untenable. While it's true that Peradon was displaying with could conceivably be called a defeatist attitude, I don't necessarily think that's a scumtell at all- for example, in Paranormal 24 you lost hope for a while (and were attacked for it) but were ultimately town. I do think that OSG's vote on Peradon was very lazy, and I'm going to ask OrigamiScienceGuy to elaborate on how he thought Peradon making a 'before I get lynched'-esque post was scummy.There was a long argument after day 2 started. I thought peradon was anti-town (which is the same as scummy to me) because he was giving up and guilt tripping which I can see now way of being town oriented.
Um. OrigamiScienceGuy, would you elaborate on how you thought Peradon making a 'before I get lynched'-esque post is scummy?
THe jist of my argument was that I could have been wrong about TDS's actions because they could have been town-oriented, BUT, I don't see any way that giving up could benefit town.Also, agreeing with Shakerag addresses exactly nothing of what I said. What I don't understand is how you can say TDS might not be scum, despite his play thus far. You claim in your post that the only thing that bothered you about TDS was his vote, which may have been RVS related, and then seemed to imply that the rest of his play was scummy. Why is his days of misinterpreting everyone less scummy than a new player's reflexive AtE?I still think that TDS is scum. I just thought, from a strategic standpoint, that Peradon was more scummy then TDS at that moment. While I could have been wrong about TDS and he was still in RVS (I still don't believe him, but it was a possibility) Peradon's act of giving up and guilt-tripping could in no way be town-oriented. Yes, he did change after I called him out on it, but that dosn't change the fact that he still did the action.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 05, 2015, 05:13:51 pm
As I see it, Persus's argument was that voting for a person for giving reads and information to town was untenable. While it's true that Peradon was displaying with could conceivably be called a defeatist attitude, I don't necessarily think that's a scumtell at all- for example, in Paranormal 24 you lost hope for a while (and were attacked for it) but were ultimately town. I do think that OSG's vote on Peradon was very lazy, and I'm going to ask OrigamiScienceGuy to elaborate on how he thought Peradon making a 'before I get lynched'-esque post was scummy.There was a long argument after day 2 started. I thought peradon was anti-town (which is the same as scummy to me) because he was giving up and guilt tripping which I can see now way of being town oriented.[/quote
Um. OrigamiScienceGuy, would you elaborate on how you thought Peradon making a 'before I get lynched'-esque post is scummy?
You've still yet to provide any support for that view other than two sentences which could be taken as guilt tripping if you really wanted to.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2015, 05:45:51 pm
Deus Asmoth: Wait, hold up, you have guilty conscience?
Post by: flabort on March 05, 2015, 06:22:32 pm
flabort: Not I. What are you planning to do with your ridiculous number of points?Awe. I was hoping there was at least one other person benefiting from this.
I plan to... [jokes]Kill everyone and win this game for myself[/jokes] become utterly invincible and safe from any threat. Then make sure I always know which mask is mine so that I can stay invincible. Then find a way to put an end to the scum.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 05, 2015, 07:21:45 pm
OSG, since you voted TDS based off most of his reads being neutral, do you have a more evolved list of reads? Your ramble would indicate to me that you don't, which makes me suspicious of your vote.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 05, 2015, 07:44:35 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 05, 2015, 09:51:58 pm
Scum
Persus13/Cheeetar: The erratic voting of previous day at nearly the last moment with, in my opinion, insufficient evidence or reasons.
Tiruin: Very slight lean due to inactivity. You give big theories that haven't came true.
Deus Asmoth: I don't see why you don't understand my logic for voting Persus. I can understand if you don't agree with it, but you still act like my vote had no rhyme or reason whatsoever.
neutral
Flabort: Your xp hogging is proven due to the ridiculous price of inflate, but I am still unsure if you are town, thief, or scum.
Hector13: You seem to be trying to pick fights. I might just be nit picking though.
Shakerag: Gives lots of facts and analysis, but a bit hard for me to follow. Also hurt by inactivity.
Town
4maskwolf: I can see where you are coming from in your accusations against me, even if I wouldn't care about most of them if our roles were switched.
Did I miss anyone?
Post by: hector13 on March 05, 2015, 10:20:52 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 05, 2015, 10:23:44 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2015, 10:24:25 pm
Picking fights? I picked a fight with 4mask. Once. For non-mafia reasons. I know I can't prove that but still. One instance does not a pattern make.To be fair, I picked that fight by being generally surly and obnoxious after the day started, so that wasn't even an instance of you picking a fight.
Post by: hector13 on March 05, 2015, 10:27:14 pm
You also seemed ready to continue the fight with me, or that's how I saw it.
Link or it didn't happen.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 05, 2015, 10:32:17 pm
Does anyone else think Origami is buddying?
Example 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6071667#msg6071667)
Example 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6071786#msg6071786)
Example 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6072354#msg6072354)
Or am I just being a little too critical here?
Maybe you were just pushing the wrong buttons at the wrong time, but that felt to me like you wanted an excuse to keep going for me. I didn't want to mention is because I was fairly tired of arguing at that point.
Post by: flabort on March 05, 2015, 10:40:42 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 05, 2015, 10:42:56 pm
Post by: hector13 on March 05, 2015, 11:00:43 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on March 05, 2015, 11:21:40 pm
You've still yet to provide any support for that view other than two sentences which could be taken as guilt tripping if you really wanted to.As I see it, Persus's argument was that voting for a person for giving reads and information to town was untenable. While it's true that Peradon was displaying with could conceivably be called a defeatist attitude, I don't necessarily think that's a scumtell at all- for example, in Paranormal 24 you lost hope for a while (and were attacked for it) but were ultimately town. I do think that OSG's vote on Peradon was very lazy, and I'm going to ask OrigamiScienceGuy to elaborate on how he thought Peradon making a 'before I get lynched'-esque post was scummy.There was a long argument after day 2 started. I thought peradon was anti-town (which is the same as scummy to me) because he was giving up and guilt tripping which I can see now way of being town oriented.
Um. OrigamiScienceGuy, would you elaborate on how you thought Peradon making a 'before I get lynched'-esque post is scummy?
Hi OSG! Would you please answer this question Deus Asmoth asked?
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 05, 2015, 11:22:38 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 05, 2015, 11:23:34 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on March 06, 2015, 12:20:36 am
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 06, 2015, 12:29:23 am
Post by: hector13 on March 06, 2015, 12:31:22 am
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 06, 2015, 12:44:53 am
I normally just glance at the quotes because I remember when they were written.
It was really only that one post that gave me the idea of guilt tripping and giving up.
Post by: Cheeetar on March 06, 2015, 12:51:54 am
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 06, 2015, 12:57:09 am
Obviously, Peradon didn't keep up his attitude of giving up. Why would he? That doesn't change the fact that he did purposefully make those remarks. I see no way that a town player would purposefully make those remarks in order to benefit the town, which is why I voted for him. In my opinion, if you do an action that has no chance of benefiting town, it is the same as benefiting scum.
What "justification" do I lack?
Post by: Tiruin on March 06, 2015, 02:12:28 am
Reading up; shall make post later. Apologies ahead.
Also confirmation on powers; I received Sap (as far as memory is concerned; will cross check later). Hello Cheeetar! You're delicious too! :D
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 06, 2015, 04:58:28 am
Post by: Cheeetar on March 06, 2015, 05:07:17 am
*sigh*
Obviously, Peradon didn't keep up his attitude of giving up. Why would he? That doesn't change the fact that he did purposefully make those remarks. I see no way that a town player would purposefully make those remarks in order to benefit the town, which is why I voted for him. In my opinion, if you do an action that has no chance of benefiting town, it is the same as benefiting scum.
What "justification" do I lack?
Remove purposefully- he certainly didn't accidentally make those posts, perhaps by tripping up and flailing his hands on the keyboard and then mouse to press post. He gave us his reads and all the information he could about his powers. You don't see more information to town as benefiting town?
Simply put- scum vote people because they want them dead or think it'll make them look towny, town vote people because they see them as scummy. I don't see a reason for you to have thought he was scummy, so there must be some other motive for you voting for him. (You're scum. That's the motivation.)
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 06, 2015, 08:49:04 am
Do you see any way that giving up could benefit the town? cause I don't
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 06, 2015, 08:54:30 am
Post by: Tiruin on March 06, 2015, 09:05:43 am
It is annoying and irritating. It's like being disabled on your right leg, and yet you've the will to climb Mount Everest and you totally know you can do it but most people say 'No.' ...As an obscure analogy here.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 06, 2015, 09:42:45 am
Again; how does a town player trying to convince people not to lynch him not benefit the town?At the time, nobody knew that he was town. So that question is irrelevant.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 06, 2015, 09:57:56 am
I see. So, him trying to not get lynched is scummy, unless he's town, in which case it's irrelevant.Again; how does a town player trying to convince people not to lynch him not benefit the town?At the time, nobody knew that he was town. So that question is irrelevant.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 06, 2015, 10:05:52 am
Everybody, I challenge you to find a way that a player giving up can possibly benefit the town.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2015, 10:14:02 am
Really?
This again.
This is a circular argument with neither side understanding each other.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 06, 2015, 10:59:44 am
Post by: flabort on March 06, 2015, 12:25:22 pm
Yay!
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 06, 2015, 01:59:17 pm
Origami, I'm going to have to ask you to back up your persistent claim that Peradon gave up on the game, because he didn't. He continued participating in the thread up until he got lynched, which is kind of the opposite of what you're claiming he did. Are you still claiming that a two sentence post that you were just about able to twist into a case was enough of a basis to lynch him over your top scum read of the day?
Once I called him out on it, he would obviously stop doing so. Please answer my question.
Post by: hector13 on March 06, 2015, 02:05:38 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2015, 02:08:35 pm
I'm gonna go practice my monologue now, you all have fun.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 06, 2015, 02:13:37 pm
But he didn't give up. He made an effort to convince people he wasn't scum. The fact it happened after you pointed it out is irrelevant.Are you saying that it is irrelevant that he gave up in the first place?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2015, 02:17:00 pm
Yes, yes it is.But he didn't give up. He made an effort to convince people he wasn't scum. The fact it happened after you pointed it out is irrelevant.Are you saying that it is irrelevant that he gave up in the first place?
Giving up may be anti-town, but it is also anti-scum: a scum player giving up gains no benefit from it that a town player doesn't gain, which is usually nothing. Giving up is thus a null-tell: while it doesn't help the town when done by town, it doesn't help the scum when done by scum, and thus is an action taken by both alignments only under emotional stress.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 06, 2015, 02:18:22 pm
Post by: hector13 on March 06, 2015, 02:30:12 pm
Yes.But he didn't give up. He made an effort to convince people he wasn't scum. The fact it happened after you pointed it out is irrelevant.Are you saying that it is irrelevant that he gave up in the first place?
Post in question (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=148604.msg6066900#msg6066900).
It happened ~6 hours prior to deadline, and no-one else seemed likely to vote, given that they would have voted by that point if they were going to. It was a normal reaction, and he refuted 4mask's reasons for voting him (or at least the tests) so he hadn't quite given up completely yet, just knew it was going to be a hard ask.
His comments over flipping town were stupid, but then again so was your vote for him, ignoring his entire post except for the two lines that back up your argument.
PPE: Well fuck you again 4mask :P takin' the time to find the post and organise my thoughts, man, and you ninja me with everything anyway.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2015, 02:34:08 pm
Well fuck you again 4mask :P takin' the time to find the post and organise my thoughts, man, and you ninja me with everything anyway.Someone just got put in my signature once I get around to it. On the other hand, what I said and what you said are entirely different: you are refuting the idea that Peradon gave up, I was refuting that giving up is a scumtell.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 06, 2015, 02:41:14 pm
obviously someone giving up doesn't help the town.That is why I voted Peradon.
Post by: Tiruin on March 06, 2015, 02:49:08 pm
Is this your sole reason for voting Peradon over anyone and anything else during that time?obviously someone giving up doesn't help the town.That is why I voted Peradon.
Did you consider any other viewpoint regarding what would occur--as stated by many others back there?
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 06, 2015, 03:12:07 pm
Everybody who is voting for me, what are the reasons why you are voting for me?
Post by: hector13 on March 06, 2015, 03:14:59 pm
Also Origami, 'cause all you seem to have done for the past in-game day or so is make nice, and I'm still not happy with the way you moved your vote on D1.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 06, 2015, 03:20:02 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 06, 2015, 03:21:07 pm
Peradon. Did. Not. Give. Up. Quote mining me and ignoring my arguments does not change that fact. This is why I'm voting for you.obviously someone giving up doesn't help the town.That is why I voted Peradon.
Post by: hector13 on March 06, 2015, 03:23:11 pm
Well, what would make you happy then?
... You're not even going to point to the part about making nice? What?
I told you what doesn't make me happy. We had a very long argument about it, and I added to that just now. Do you not want me to point to all the posts you've made thanking people or apologising and not actually adding to the game?
Post by: Cheeetar on March 06, 2015, 03:23:59 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 06, 2015, 03:24:20 pm
That was a rhetorical question. I was pointing out how nothing I do is gonna make you happy.Well, what would make you happy then?
... You're not even going to point to the part about making nice? What?
I told you what doesn't make me happy. We had a very long argument about it, and I added to that just now. Do you not want me to point to all the posts you've made thanking people or apologising and not actually adding to the game?
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 06, 2015, 03:26:33 pm
Ok, so I know unless some of the lurkers come out of the woodworks to vote for TDS, I'm going to get lynched. So, I'm going to go ahead and post my reads for analysis when I flip town:This looks like giving up to me.
...
Anyway, I'll reveal my powers and such if there is no chance that I get saved. For now, my fate is in your hands.
Post by: Cheeetar on March 06, 2015, 03:26:58 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 06, 2015, 03:29:55 pm
Post by: flabort on March 06, 2015, 03:30:46 pm
Post by: hector13 on March 06, 2015, 03:32:27 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 06, 2015, 03:36:59 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on March 06, 2015, 03:39:10 pm
But do you see where I'm coming from? Do you at least see my logic?
I can understand how you can see that as defeatist language. What I don't understand is why you see it as scummy behaviour, or why you believed he deserved to be lynched for that alone.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 06, 2015, 03:39:59 pm
Post by: hector13 on March 06, 2015, 03:41:08 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on March 06, 2015, 03:41:43 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 06, 2015, 03:43:52 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on March 06, 2015, 04:01:46 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 06, 2015, 04:09:30 pm
As I've already said, it would be simple for a scum member to just make that up. There is no credibility in those statements.So, there was no way that him posting his reads and role could have helped the town because he made them up in an attempt to stay alive while at the same time giving up? You seem to be arguing for two mutually exclusive reads that you had on Perradon.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 06, 2015, 04:58:06 pm
Post by: hector13 on March 06, 2015, 05:04:03 pm
I think we've convinced him that voting someone for "giving up" makes him look scummy, but beyond that I don't really see what can be derived from flogging the dead horse.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 06, 2015, 05:20:30 pm
Post by: Shakerag on March 06, 2015, 05:32:45 pm
Post by: flabort on March 06, 2015, 05:52:47 pm
Sorry all, busy day. I'll try to post on the weekend (gasp!) to make up for it.It's the end of the world as we know it... And I feel fine about you posting on the weekend, I even encourage it more often ;)
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2015, 06:44:09 pm
If me, Cheeetar, hector, flabort, and asmoth are all voting OSG...
That's hammer.
Everyone shut up if that is true.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2015, 06:45:28 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 06, 2015, 07:35:27 pm
Or is it...
Post by: notquitethere on March 06, 2015, 07:50:52 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 07, 2015, 06:03:34 pm
Hector has died. Hector was a third-party serial killer.
Spoiler: Hector13 (click to show/hide)
Hector died before the hammer, so D3 is still ongoing! Sorry I was away for so long, normal service should resume.
Votes
4maskwolf
Shakerag
Varee
origamiscienceguy - Persus13, Deus Asmoth, Flabort, 4maskwolf
Flabort
Tiruin
Deus Asmoth
Cheeetar
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, White, Silver, Orange, Brown, Purple, Turquoise, Yellow, Black
The day ends 12AM GMT on the 10th, or on a hammer of 5 votes.
Dead Masks
Spoiler: Cream (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Gold (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Violet (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 06:21:22 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 07, 2015, 06:27:04 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 07, 2015, 06:28:34 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 07, 2015, 06:30:09 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 06:31:39 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 07, 2015, 06:37:05 pm
So far, everyone who has died during the day had had kill, does anyone else find this odd?Not particularly. Everyone got two kills yesterday, and you can only sell one power a day.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 07, 2015, 06:37:43 pm
I can see why you all thought my actions were scummy, but I ask you to look at my reasons for doing them and try to think like me. I wasn't thinking about how I was looking because I was focused on trying to find the person who was hurting the town the most.
Post by: notquitethere on March 07, 2015, 06:45:08 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 07, 2015, 07:04:19 pm
"Oh no it isn't," said one of the initiates looking at the tallies.
"Oh yes it is you pudding-brained son of djinn!"
It was, in fact the end.
They grabbed Origamiscienceguy and threw him out into the rain. He landed deep into the mud and tried to claw up as the acid toad lept, shiv in hand. A brief tussle ensued and the monk was killed.
"Let's rifle through his stuff and see whether he was a malefactor then," said one of them.
"Hold on," said Origami, "I'm not dead yet! Unlike that guy..."
He pointed to one of the lay-monks, who started choking on a poorly cooked frog leg. His associates hit him on the back and he recovered as well.
origamiscienceguy is dead. origamiscienceguy resurrected.
Civilian 2 is dead. Civilian 2 resurrected.
On Day 3, Turquoise targeted Turquoise.
Spoiler: Final Vote Count (click to show/hide)
Everyone who is not Dense, gain +1 xp. Everyone who is Insidious gain +1xp. If you met the conditions for Bloodythirsty, gain +1xp. If you are Simple, make sure you do not gain more than +1xp. The thread will be locked while lynch triggered effects are implemented.
Post by: notquitethere on March 07, 2015, 07:10:24 pm
Hmm, someone I don't think we're all good guys
The monks looked at one another. They were quickly running out of people that could possibly be innocent of malefaction. The remaining loyal monks would need a lot of moxy to make it through...
Votes
4maskwolf
Shakerag
origamiscienceguy
Flabort
Tiruin
Deus Asmoth
Cheeetar
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, White, Silver, Blue, Orange, Brown, Purple, Turquoise, Yellow, Black
Dead Masks
Spoiler: Cream (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Gold (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Violet (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Updated List of Costs (click to show/hide)
The day ends 12AM GMT on the 12th, or on a hammer of 4 votes. The kill action won't come into effect until Tuesday 12AM.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 07:12:14 pm
flabort, are you still inflating inflate?
Also, origamiscienceguy, I can see where you are coming from by I disagree with your assessment. I'm sorry if you are town, although if you're town town is basically FUBAR so... urk.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 07, 2015, 07:12:25 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 07:13:47 pm
everyone, do you believe that I intended to lynch Peradon because I thought he was scummy?I believe you have told us that, yes. Whether or not you actually chose him for scumminess or whether you did it because scum reasons is up to question.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 07:14:52 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 07, 2015, 07:17:14 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on March 07, 2015, 07:18:51 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 07, 2015, 07:19:26 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 07, 2015, 07:22:40 pm
So the reason you're so incredibly scummy is because of how you were thinking so townily. That makes complete sense to me. OrigamiScienceGuy.How was I thinking townilly? If I was scum, I would have avoided drawing attention to myself because I wouldn't care about who I was voting for.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 07, 2015, 07:23:05 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 07, 2015, 07:32:44 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 07, 2015, 07:33:47 pm
Side note: NQT, does booby trapping a power prevent that power from taking effect if the trap is triggered?No, though if it successfully kills someone it prevents them from taking any further actions.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 07:36:43 pm
Can you please wait on hammering me for everybody to see what's happening?Would you like us to wait until 24 hours after the day began, hmm? So that kills can take effect?
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 07, 2015, 08:14:35 pm
Can you please wait on hammering me for everybody to see what's happening?Would you like us to wait until 24 hours after the day began, hmm? So that kills can take effect?
There are like 2 days until the kills are processed. I would think that everybody is able to read by then.
I am just hoping that somebody finally sees that my intentions were town-oriented.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 08:26:27 pm
Quote from: fortune teller results
Afflicted
Bless
Cautious
Cautious
Cleanse
Cleanse
Cleanse
Cleanse
Cleanse
Cleanse
Cleanse
Copycat
Copycat
Copycat
Death Resistant
Delete
Dense
Flexible
flexible
Flexible
Free
Free
free
Free
Grounded
Grounded
Hasty
Holy
Immune
Industrious
inflate
Innate
Innate
Insured
Insured
Magnetic
Mole
Patrol
Patrol
Power of Healing
Prolific
Prolific
Protect
Randomise
Recall
Resurrect
Sap
Self
Self
Self-
Self-
Targeting
Virtuous
Virtuous
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 07, 2015, 08:31:46 pm
About your list, there are no kills on it, and I can say that I didn't get any. It would seem likely that only a few people actually got kill.
Post by: Tiruin on March 07, 2015, 08:45:04 pm
So I was going to post a PFP that I didn't believe Origami is scum, but due to current circumstances lack the power to link why.
Post by: flabort on March 07, 2015, 08:52:27 pm
flabort: Can we have those reads now?Fine. I was hoping to grab some links to back up my claims, but here's the bare bones of my current reads. Yeah, they look like day 1 reads due to minimalism.
Most Scum
OSG: OK, I understand cowardice (resurection), I understand voting near the end of the day... what gets to me is the pleading and the fact that the same topic was rehashed over and over and over during day 3; I GET IT, he voted Peradon because of something Peradon said. I'd say post #761 is about as bad as what OSG found Peradon scummy for, though, as is post #731, actually the reason I voted/hammered him: "Nothing I do is gonna make you happy" is giving up, which is hipocrasy, is what it is. If he had just given up I wouldn't have voted, but the fact that you spent an entire work week arguing that someone else doing just that was worth a vote, well.
Shakerag: I don't trust him, naturally; He and I don't see eye to eye no matter which mafia game we're playing, and his lack of play during weekends (when I can be most active) means we tend to ignore eachother, I guess.
Deus Asmoth/Tiruin: I know nothing of them.
Cheeetar: Just replaced in, his predacessor Persus quit due to being busy and not being able to read 40 pages (I guess he's 15ppp). Notably had a unique stance on defending other players as Persus.
4maskwolf: Busy enough trying to save his own hide and provide information to the town at the same time. Seems town.
Most Town
See, this is the same thing you voted for Peradon over.
I am just hoping that somebody finally sees that my intentions were town-oriented.
About your list, there are no kills on it, and I can say that I didn't get any. It would seem likely that only a few people actually got kill.I think Kill was Recalled; possibly before 4mask got his results.
YAY Internet Temporarily!Hmmm... Sorry, Tiruin, I think I will hammer OSG again.
So I was going to post a PFP that I didn't believe Origami is scum, but due to current circumstances lack the power to link why.
Sweet merciful...Yes.
flabort, are you still inflating inflate?
Post by: Tiruin on March 07, 2015, 08:55:26 pm
...I was typing up a long post which I couldn't yesterday because it got locked. GAH.YAY Internet Temporarily!Hmmm... Sorry, Tiruin, I think I will hammer OSG again.
So I was going to post a PFP that I didn't believe Origami is scum, but due to current circumstances lack the power to link why.
:I
Accursed timezones and net availability.
...I really have a bad feeling that OSG is not a good target here, or on why in the world has the idea of 2 scumteams been a valid one.
Post by: notquitethere on March 07, 2015, 09:09:12 pm
"That'll show him we mean business," he said, "now let's see if he was a malefactor!"
But the spirit was strong with this one, and his ghostly presence creeped everyone out sufficiently that they didn't want to go near the body.
origamiscienceguy is dead.
Spoiler: origamiscienceguy (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Final Vote Count (click to show/hide)
Everyone who is not Dense, gain +1 xp. Everyone who is Insidious gain +1xp. If you met the conditions for Bloodythirsty, gain +1xp. If you are Simple, make sure you do not gain more than +1xp. The thread will be locked while lynch triggered effects are implemented.
Post by: notquitethere on March 07, 2015, 09:13:21 pm
The Quick and the Quickly Dead
Would the fifth day lead to a malefactor flipping? If the previous four days were anything to go by...
Votes
4maskwolf
Shakerag
Flabort
Tiruin
Deus Asmoth
Cheeetar
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, White, Silver, Brown, Purple, Turquoise, Yellow, Black
Dead Masks
Spoiler: Cream (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Gold (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Violet (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Orange (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Updated List of Costs (click to show/hide)
The day ends 12AM GMT on the 12th, or on a hammer of 4 votes. The kill action won't come into effect until Tuesday 12AM.
Post by: Tiruin on March 07, 2015, 09:15:55 pm
So why did people quickhammer Origami inseatd of using the itme to...talk?
Also I keep on being cursed :v
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 09:27:35 pm
I swear to god, though, nobody revive osg, we don't need to rehash this argument again.
I'm not using fortune teller today, just fyi, I doubt too much has happened,
Sweet Jesus, flabort, that inflation tho...
Post by: Cheeetar on March 07, 2015, 09:29:57 pm
Also I keep on being cursed :v
This is very odd! 4maskwolf claimed that nobody had curse. Would somebody hide curse for the 1 (2?) xp?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 09:32:22 pm
Fortune teller only gives half of the powers in play. To answer your second question, I have no freaking idea, scum maybe? I mean, that power is enough to piss off anyone, so I think it's scum doing it. I still think it's a besmirch from a scum with that afflicted my fortune teller turned up.Also I keep on being cursed :v
This is very odd! 4maskwolf claimed that nobody had curse. Would somebody hide curse for the 1 (2?) xp?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 09:33:28 pm
EBWOPFortune teller only gives half of the powers in play. To answer your second question, I have no freaking idea, scum maybe? I mean, that power is enough to piss off anyone, so I think it's natural it would be hidden. I still think it's a besmirch from a scum with that afflicted my fortune teller turned up.Also I keep on being cursed :v
This is very odd! 4maskwolf claimed that nobody had curse. Would somebody hide curse for the 1 (2?) xp?
Post by: Cheeetar on March 07, 2015, 09:34:18 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 07, 2015, 09:40:29 pm
flabort, why hammer Origami so quickly?
How does recalling a curse work by the way? Do they go into negative xp if they don't have enough to pay it off?
Post by: Cheeetar on March 07, 2015, 09:41:56 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 09:42:17 pm
Fortune Teller only shows up half of the active powers in any case, though.gah.
flabort, why hammer Origami so quickly?
How does recalling a curse work by the way? Do they go into negative xp if they don't have enough to pay it off?
So that's what that feels like.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 09:46:27 pm
Post by: flabort on March 07, 2015, 09:49:47 pm
Well, now's the time to buy graverob.
Why did I hammer? I did not want to read the same damn conversation again and again anymore. Furthermore, I felt his hipocracy in giving up after arguing for so long that he saw it as scummy was scummy. I also think that at this point we have a better chance of lynching scum than town even if we lynch at random.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 09:51:30 pm
I also think that at this point we have a better chance of lynching scum than town even if we lynch at random.And why would you think that, flabort. And there's another where that one came from.
Post by: Tiruin on March 07, 2015, 09:56:40 pm
...Let me get yon log.Also I keep on being cursed :v
This is very odd! 4maskwolf claimed that nobody had curse. Would somebody hide curse for the 1 (2?) xp?
Quote
CYOM3 - D4I haven't ever used Sap--on ~D3, I had 'kill'. Which has then been assumedly recalled.
Today at 08 pm
Sap, Self-Cleanse, Industrious, Grounded, Afflicted, Dense, Mole
CYOM3 - D5
Today at 09 pm »
Sap, Self-Cleanse, Industrious, Grounded, Afflicted, Dense, Mole, Simple
Also...you're in shock, yet earlier claim you're immune to {Many things} >_>
Why?
PFP
The slimy bastard. Keep us from seeing your alignment even when you're dead, will you?What's your lasting read on Origami now?
Well, now's the time to buy graverob.
For me, I honestly still think he's town or third-party, leaning on the latter due to his attitude; initially newbie leaning town though.
Post by: flabort on March 07, 2015, 10:04:16 pm
However, don't bother voting me, I'm immune to votes by this point; Free self pardon since day 3.
Shakerag
Post by: Tiruin on March 07, 2015, 10:05:05 pm
Quote
Two Mafias/Choose-Your-Own-Third-Party Numbers permitting, there will be either two mafia teams, third parties, or (most likely) both.Considerng this dea, given what I was questonng earlier. Problem is that the varabe of knowing how many are in a team (assmedly 2+ or the noton of a 'team' is flawed...unless techncaties in terms don't exst here [so 1-man teas ay exst])
Quote
- 4maskwolfBut gven origai and/or the others' flp--I' on the assumption that we're playng vs Third-partes here.
- Peradon
- Shakerag
- Flabort
- Hector13
- Tiruin }Silver}
- Deus Asmoth
- Persus13 Cheeetar
Remaining:
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, White, Brown, Purple, Turquoise, Yellow, Black
Ded Town
- TheDarkStar {Gold}
- Peradon {CreaM}
- Deathsword {PINK}
Third Party
- Varee {Violet}
- Hector13 {Bleu}
Unknown; Tiruin presumes third party
- origamiscienceguy {Orange}
NQT: n ths game, is there a chance for there beng only ONE Mafa tea?
Does tea == 2+ players, or may a team be composed of only 1 player?
Ah, I'm sorry. NQT hasn't been able to process my actions yet, but I essentially know who everyone is behind each mask.And then flabort was scum. :^
However, don't bother voting me, I'm immune to votes by this point; Free self pardon since day 3.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 10:06:13 pm
flabort
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 07, 2015, 10:08:23 pm
We'll see about that, cheeky. Depending on the results of my actions I may have just screwed you out of your protections.Interesting. How would you do that? Recall?
flabort
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 10:09:21 pm
Trade secret. I don't want him getting around it by knowing what it is, on the off chance he hasn't sent in his actions yet.We'll see about that, cheeky. Depending on the results of my actions I may have just screwed you out of your protections.Interesting. How would you do that? Recall?
flabort
Post by: Tiruin on March 07, 2015, 10:10:23 pm
We'll see about that, cheeky. Depending on the results of my actions I may have just screwed you out of your protections.-.-
flabort
...
Am I the only town left!?
But seriously here; what's up w/ you and flabort? What's up w/ your attitude flabort?
And do you reason out flabort's single notice of 'don't bother voting me' to be a scum-side taunt? I see it as neutral.
I have to use textspeak to cope with this keyboard. :-\
PPE
Trade secret. I don't want him getting around it by knowing what it is, on the off chance he hasn't sent in his actions yet.You used a Kill, didn't ya?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 10:12:50 pm
He hasn't been this cocky all game and then suddenly he just starts acting like nothing can touch him. Does that sound like town to anyone here? Particularly after last game I was going to screw him out of his supposed "guaranteed win".
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 07, 2015, 10:15:37 pm
(http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t487/blanketinapark/tumblr_m4ejm0hhwL1rwendeo1_500.jpg)
Post by: flabort on March 07, 2015, 10:16:19 pm
Also, I sent in my actions basically the minute I hammered OSG; it's just that 20+ actions takes some time to process.
Post by: Tiruin on March 07, 2015, 10:17:19 pm
Hehehe using a kill would be absolutely poetic, given what happened to me last game, but no....He's been that way the whole game for me (and as far as my notes span, its consistent with his attitude).
He hasn't been this cocky all game and then suddenly he just starts acting like nothing can touch him. Does that sound like town to anyone here? Particularly after last game I was going to screw him out of his supposed "guaranteed win".
Override that notion--how is someone boasting 'votes can't stop me', necessarily scum/my?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 10:18:25 pm
How is that in any way NOT scum boasting to do that?Hehehe using a kill would be absolutely poetic, given what happened to me last game, but no....He's been that way the whole game for me (and as far as my notes span, its consistent with his attitude).
He hasn't been this cocky all game and then suddenly he just starts acting like nothing can touch him. Does that sound like town to anyone here? Particularly after last game I was going to screw him out of his supposed "guaranteed win".
Override that notion--how is someone boasting 'votes can't stop me', necessarily scum?
Meh, I think we just have a difference of opinion on the matter. My vote stays.
Post by: notquitethere on March 07, 2015, 10:19:49 pm
NQT: n ths game, is there a chance for there beng only ONE Mafa tea?A team always has at least two players in this game. There could be just one mafia team.
Does tea == 2+ players, or may a team be composed of only 1 player?
Post by: Tiruin on March 07, 2015, 10:21:14 pm
I doubt that he did. As far as protections, I'm fairly sure that even if you roleblocked me, Unstoppable would stop that, Hasty would stop you from delaying me (any further than my shear volume of power already does), I'm Insured, Hardy, Circumspect, Death-Resistant and Resurecting, Grounded, Holy, etc.Funny. You had me thinking on a figure-head scumteam; one buys Sap or Free-Sap and sucks their allies to get a turtle-build.
Also, I sent in my actions basically the minute I hammered OSG; it's just that 20+ actions takes some time to process.
How is that in any way NOT scum boasting to do that?Still need your viewpoint in detail here, sillycat. :3
Meh, I think we just have a difference of opinion on the matter. My vote stays.
That's not tellng me anything--I can see how it is nderstandable, bt in regard to flabort's attitde in this whole game, it woud be inctefully..weird to know he'd ust out himself ike that.
Its more his ego speaking here, for I.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 10:23:58 pm
But seriously, if he's actually as invincible as he believes then he has nothing to fear from us and can flaunt his power openly while not outright saying "I'm scum" because then we'd all gang up on him and try to find a way to get him deadified.
Post by: Tiruin on March 07, 2015, 10:27:22 pm
If cheeetar did indeed recall kill I know at least one mask that is probably a player without flexible, along with another mask I'm pretty sure is an NPC.Err, whatnow?
Othanks!NQT: n ths game, is there a chance for there beng only ONE Mafa tea?A team always has at least two players in this game. There could be just one mafia team.
Does tea == 2+ players, or may a team be composed of only 1 player?
Edit: Yeah its besmirch, not curse. Sorry, was working by prior memory.
But seriously, if he's actually as invincible as he believes then he has nothing to fear from us and can flaunt his power openly while not outright saying "I'm scum" because then we'd all gang up on him and try to find a way to get him deadified....He could be town too, in doing that.
Part of why I'm partial to him not being scum, is because that was how I act at times. However I'm awaiting his x-pl-na-shn here.
Gah letters.
Post by: Cheeetar on March 07, 2015, 10:33:24 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 07, 2015, 10:36:48 pm
Alright, which cheeky sod recalled recall?...Nobody claimed their full action/ability list other than me, by my memory.
Post by: notquitethere on March 07, 2015, 10:43:33 pm
Votes
4maskwolf
Shakerag - [1] - Flabort
Flabort - 4maskwolf, 4maskwolf
Tiruin
Deus Asmoth
Cheeetar
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, White, Silver, Brown, Purple, Turquoise, Yellow, Black
Post by: Cheeetar on March 07, 2015, 10:45:46 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 10:46:27 pm
That's interesting- somebody appears to have blackmailed you, 4maskwolf.That's shouldn't be possible, I'm protected from blackmails.
Post by: Cheeetar on March 07, 2015, 10:47:13 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 07, 2015, 10:47:58 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 10:48:03 pm
Post by: flabort on March 07, 2015, 10:48:46 pm
Alright, which cheeky sod recalled recall?I did.
Am I the only town left!?I doubt it.
But seriously here; what's up w/ you and flabort? What's up w/ your attitude flabort?
And do you reason out flabort's single notice of 'don't bother voting me' to be a scum-side taunt? I see it as neutral.
What's up between 4mask and me is very little. We've been acting mostly independently of each other, towards different goals and endgames.
My attitude shift may be because I just entered my endgame. I have 81 UNSPENT points left and already did all my shopping for today. I have multiple kills queued up, and I've just recalled the only two things that could wreck my plans. I'm immune to votes and kills, completely, and even if you do find a way to kill me I'll just come back and you have to REPEAT that.
I see it as a taunt AT a scum team.
Post by: Tiruin on March 07, 2015, 10:49:41 pm
I see it as a taunt AT a scum team....So, massclaim. :^
Post by: Cheeetar on March 07, 2015, 10:49:55 pm
Alright, which cheeky sod recalled recall?I did.
Why did you have to do that? I'd recalled besmirch, and kill- these actions were super useful (I am assuming).
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 10:50:59 pm
..Massclaim yet? :VWell, I'll claim my fluff. I'm the psychic archangel of mass denial.
PPE: Well the endgames thing is certainly true, I went with a nice defensive build rather than a gamebreaking one. Why are you accusing Shakerag?
Post by: notquitethere on March 07, 2015, 10:52:05 pm
NQT, didn't you say earlier that a blackmailed person's vote would not appear in the votecount at all?That's true.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 10:52:58 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on March 07, 2015, 10:53:40 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on March 07, 2015, 10:55:21 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 07, 2015, 10:56:02 pm
NQT, would someone whose vote has been stolen know it was stolen?They're not directly informed, no.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 10:57:40 pm
Post by: flabort on March 07, 2015, 10:57:48 pm
I'd rather not claim my complete power set right now.
I'm voting Shakerag because he's next on my list of scum reads, although...
Tiruin, are you incapable of seeing anyone as scummy?
Exactly how many free-inflates do you have?Now, none. Somebody recalled it before I had the chance to, though I planned to today anyways.
NQT, would someone whose vote has been stolen know it was stolen?Ooh, great Idea, that's what I'll do tomorrow.
So I'm going to guess here, Flabort. You blocked, poisoned, and infected everyone?No; just regular kills, and only three of them; I only aimed to kill a scum-team.
Post by: Cheeetar on March 07, 2015, 10:59:19 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 10:59:48 pm
I'll own up to recalling the inflate. You were up to something, and I wanted no part of it.Seems you were a bit too late for that...
Post by: Tiruin on March 07, 2015, 11:00:13 pm
Tiruin, are you incapable of seeing anyone as scummy?I've my results on a few people, but am currently cross checking in the midst of the remaining SIX PEOPLE; because given my alignment {Town}; I am under heavy doubt that we've a scumteam, but rather multiple third-parties (unless 2-man scumteam).
You're one of my primary suspects, flab. :v but you're tied with a significant other there.
Just because I'n not voting =/= no sspects.
Post by: Cheeetar on March 07, 2015, 11:12:18 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 07, 2015, 11:15:25 pm
Who is it that you believe is as scummy as Flabort, Tiruin?'Scummy' as in, third-party scummy; I'm lesser of the impression that there's a scumteam since before and given the # of players.
It's...fluid ._.
Quote from: ^ to v, towny> scummy
- Persus13 CheeetarRanking this ordinally doesn't paint the right picture. What I'm saying is, is that this is a very delicate and curious position.
- 4maskwolf
- Shakerag
- Deus Asmoth
- Flabort
- Tiruin: :D
Post by: Cheeetar on March 07, 2015, 11:18:30 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 07, 2015, 11:20:43 pm
I'm assuming here that your read of me as town is mostly based on Persus13's past behaviour?...Err.
Based on all your behavior, actually.
Post by: flabort on March 07, 2015, 11:22:53 pm
Flabort - 4maskwolf, 4maskwolfLooks like the votecount has been fixed.
4mask, you're not blackmailed/votestolen after all.
Post by: Tiruin on March 07, 2015, 11:24:27 pm
I'm the Hyper Naval Gazing Stock Market Crash, before that I was the Hyper Naval Gazing Cornucopia, Self-Serving Cornucopia before that, and Self-Cleaning Cornucopia before that....So you're someone who stares at necks?
Either way, what's stopping you from claiming?
What's your insight on the remaining people here?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 11:25:40 pm
There's still no number, but I see what you mean.Flabort - 4maskwolf, 4maskwolfLooks like the votecount has been fixed.
4mask, you're not blackmailed/votestolen after all.
Here's the real question:
Do we wait and let flabort's kills go off, hoping that he is town?
Do we believe he is scum and try to lynch him?
Do we believe he is scum and thus need to hammer somone else before the scumteam's kill can go off.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 11:26:57 pm
Post by: flabort on March 07, 2015, 11:29:41 pm
Tiruin: Too quick to assume or want to believe that everyone is town. Assumed OSG was town, willed me to be town for 1 post after I taunted scum.
Deus Asmoth: Still absent, could easily be scum or town, or third party.
Cheeetar: I'd believe he's town.
Shakerag: I always read him as scum, but I honestly believe it to be true. Also, he promised a weekend post and REALLY look forward to seeing this, if the game doesn't end first.
4maskwolf: Pretty sure he's got a plan or gambit in mind for his endgame.
Post by: flabort on March 07, 2015, 11:31:57 pm
Well, there's no number because I've been pardoned.There's still no number, but I see what you mean.Flabort - 4maskwolf, 4maskwolfLooks like the votecount has been fixed.
4mask, you're not blackmailed/votestolen after all.
Here's the real question:
Do we wait and let flabort's kills go off, hoping that he is town?
Do we believe he is scum and try to lynch him?
Do we believe he is scum and thus need to hammer somone else before the scumteam's kill can go off.
Answers to your question:
1) You can. I'll just let you know that one of those kills is probably aimed at your mask, though.
2) Nope, because I'm pardoned
3) Sure, if you want to believe that.
Post by: Tiruin on March 07, 2015, 11:35:51 pm
Do we wait and let flabort's kills go off, hoping that he is town?For some reason--nobody else is claiming anything even their abilities.
Do we believe he is scum and try to lynch him?
Do we believe he is scum and thus need to hammer somone else before the scumteam's kill can go off.
For some reason, flabort isn't doing that despite the acclaimed ton o' points as a reserve.
What makes him scum? What makes him hopefully town?
Why not third-party benign//SK?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 11:38:23 pm
4maskwolf: Pretty sure he's got a plan or gambit in mind for his endgame.*sigh*
Didn't I already say I was playing this game on the straight and narrow to Deus Asmoth earlier when questioned on gambits?
I only gambit as long as I think it's funny! And it's not funny anymore.
I doubt the reference will be understood, but I can hope.
Answers to your question:I don't know what to believe, at this point. All of my scumpicks are dead, and I don't have a good enough read on the remaining players to actually...
1) You can. I'll just let you know that one of those kills is probably aimed at your mask, though.
2) Nope, because I'm pardoned
3) Sure, if you want to believe that.
Deus Asmoth Deus Asmoth, I just remembered that whole spiel I went on earlier about the whole besmich thing, and I'm fairly sure Persus13/Cheeetar is cleared of that particular thing.
At this point, I doubt NQT would add another third-party, even if there was only one two-man scumteam. Just a hunch about game balance.Do we wait and let flabort's kills go off, hoping that he is town?For some reason--nobody else is claiming anything even their abilities.
Do we believe he is scum and try to lynch him?
Do we believe he is scum and thus need to hammer somone else before the scumteam's kill can go off.
For some reason, flabort isn't doing that despite the acclaimed ton o' points as a reserve.
What makes him scum? What makes him hopefully town?
Why not third-party benign//SK?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 07, 2015, 11:39:24 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on March 07, 2015, 11:39:32 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 07, 2015, 11:41:39 pm
My attitude shift may be because I just entered my endgame. I have 81 UNSPENT points left and already did all my shopping for today. I have multiple kills queued up, and I've just recalled the only two things that could wreck my plans. I'm immune to votes and kills, completely, and even if you do find a way to kill me I'll just come back and you have to REPEAT that.Erh?
I see it as a taunt AT a scum team.
Post by: Shakerag on March 08, 2015, 12:04:29 am
How did like, two days go by already?
I need to tuck my SO into bed, get shitfaced, and then process what in the hell is going on here.
Post by: flabort on March 08, 2015, 12:29:30 am
Tiruin, I couldn't think of what to do with SO MANY points, so I simply protected them all with Hardy and decided I'd figure out the next day what to do, if there is a day 6.
Shakerag, I'm really looking forward to your reactions.
Post by: Cheeetar on March 08, 2015, 12:32:03 am
Post by: flabort on March 08, 2015, 12:34:28 am
Post by: Tiruin on March 08, 2015, 12:49:57 am
Autosblock + Sap = Unhappy Flabort.I should've sap'd flabort. :P
But I didn't. :V
Anyway. Is there a reason why you seem to be playing like a one-man Rambo, Flabort?
Post by: Tiruin on March 08, 2015, 05:37:26 am
Flabort: With all those points, why didn't you go the KILL EVERYONE ELSE route, if you're Town?
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 08, 2015, 05:50:24 am
flabort, is that seriously the only read you have on me?
Everyone, did anyone get a guilty conscience before Cheeetar recalled Besmirch?
Post by: Tiruin on March 08, 2015, 06:15:04 am
...I have no idea when this was, but yes--I did get a Guilty Conscience before.
Everyone, did anyone get a guilty conscience before Cheeetar recalled Besmirch?
Do you have Holy, Silent or any other auto there, DA?
Because the only Afflicted in existence is me holding it.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 08, 2015, 06:34:39 am
Post by: Tiruin on March 08, 2015, 06:49:53 am
I have a power of healing, circumspect and prolific....That's all?
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 08, 2015, 08:36:26 am
Post by: Tiruin on March 08, 2015, 10:09:42 am
Post by: flabort on March 08, 2015, 11:24:51 am
Flabort: With all those points, why didn't you go the KILL EVERYONE ELSE route, if you're Town?I did say I have multiple kills queued, didn't I? :P
Did anyone delay me or otherwise?Not me.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 08, 2015, 11:28:10 am
Did anyone delay me or otherwise?Yes. I don't know your alignment and didn't know flabort's plans at the time, and since I knew your mask is a player I futzed with you a little bit, along with two other people.
Post by: Tiruin on March 08, 2015, 11:29:51 am
...As far as I know, you can only do 2 of one action (Free/Origin + Prolific =...Free, Origin and...some other related action).Flabort: With all those points, why didn't you go the KILL EVERYONE ELSE route, if you're Town?I did say I have multiple kills queued, didn't I? :P
So you're killing 2x, and possibly infecting/poisoning.
UNLESS YOU WERE THE ONE WHO INFECTED OR POISONED ME EARLIER D:<
...Well thanks -_-Did anyone delay me or otherwise?Yes. I don't know your alignment and didn't know flabort's plans at the time, and since I knew your mask is a player I futzed with you a little bit, along with two other people.
I was about to unveil something about what I just did but bleh.
...Yes to what? :v
Post by: flabort on March 08, 2015, 11:32:13 am
Remember how I inflated inflate about a dozen times? You can have multiples of an action: Like starting out with 5-7 Free-Inflates. In this case, I bought multiple Free-Kills....As far as I know, you can only do 2 of one action (Free/Origin + Prolific =...Free, Origin and...some other related action).Flabort: With all those points, why didn't you go the KILL EVERYONE ELSE route, if you're Town?I did say I have multiple kills queued, didn't I? :P
So you're killing 2x, and possibly infecting/poisoning.
UNLESS YOU WERE THE ONE WHO INFECTED OR POISONED ME EARLIER D:<
Post by: Tiruin on March 08, 2015, 11:35:30 am
Quote from: In which 4mask's Fortune Teller speaks
Virtuous
Virtuous
By which you can secure a town victory--so that's why I was wondering why.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 08, 2015, 12:38:56 pm
1) do we trust that flabort is town
2) if not, is it worth spending... um, at least eighteen days trying to lynch and/or kill him.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 08, 2015, 12:43:32 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 08, 2015, 12:46:04 pm
I guess the questions to ask now areAnyone try to sap him? He's town to me, given that incredulous amount of power (which I ask, how is that even possible?) and not having killed EVERYONE ELSE to do it yet.
1) do we trust that flabort is town
Unless he just got the huge bank lately.
Also, Tiruin, you can do up to three of the same action in one day if you only have one copy of it. Once for free, once for prolific, and once for the normal action.Err...so what explains:
Remember how I inflated inflate about a dozen times? You can have multiples of an action: Like starting out with 5-7 Free-Inflates.[...]
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 08, 2015, 01:08:11 pm
Post by: flabort on March 08, 2015, 02:09:07 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 08, 2015, 02:51:55 pm
And sell one of those inflates once a day for massive profits, yes.>_>
<_<
That was cheap.
:I
But woah. Just for posterity {maybe post-game} (because I really think I'm set with my reads...meaning everyone but flabort is in question :v), how are you even getting more Inflates? Copying that role onto yourself?
Because free costs as much as the ability even if inflated, as far as I know.
Post by: flabort on March 08, 2015, 03:31:52 pm
It's not a renewable resource, and I've exhausted my supply; fortunately, I have all the points I would ever need.
Post by: Tiruin on March 08, 2015, 03:52:19 pm
I'm not earning more, I'm afraid. Done with Inflate now, because I've sold all the ones I started with on day 1 (5 from pre-game, 2 from first changeling, equals a starting total of 7 free-inflates)So...err, how's about entertaining my (non hypothetical) question about killing everyone?
It's not a renewable resource, and I've exhausted my supply; fortunately, I have all the points I would ever need.
I mean, sure, in another viewpoint that could also make me query that way because of the possibility that I'm an SK (something which nobody is raising but my own mind much? :v); couple that with my actions this game (claiming and stuff--attitude and all) and include that vague bit I had back there? (I tracked Flabort and Deus Amoth; both Failed)...
I'm wondering why nobody is bringing up that possibility.
Either way. Flabort: Query ^
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 08, 2015, 04:04:07 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 08, 2015, 04:09:51 pm
4mask used the usual 'vague affirmative' here, not citing what exactly, but...somehow adding whipped cream on top with the embellishments :V Or so I see it anyway.Did anyone delay me or otherwise?Yes. I don't know your alignment and didn't know flabort's plans at the time, and since I knew your mask is a player I futzed with you a little bit, along with two other people.
Though the bolded part can be interpreted to knowing flabort's mask, which ties into what 4mask said earlier--so for me its less of a slip.
Post by: flabort on March 08, 2015, 04:19:03 pm
So...err, how's about entertaining my (non hypothetical) question about killing everyone?Kills haven't been processed yet, but I gave it a shot. Sure, I didn't target EVERYONE, but that's because I already know a few civilian masks.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 08, 2015, 04:54:24 pm
Post by: flabort on March 08, 2015, 10:21:37 pm
I literally know everybody's masks.
Tiruin claimed silver. This is, of course, correct.
Shakerag is yellow.
Cheeetar is Turquoise
4maskwolf is green (Autocorrect is telling me his name is a real word, all the other usernames are not words)
Deus is black
Red, Bronze, Brown, White, and purple remain; four of them are patsies, and one is me. I know which one, but won't mention it.
I sent kills to Yellow, silver, and green. Black and Turquoise I didn't target; yet.
Post by: Tiruin on March 09, 2015, 02:09:00 am
I sent kills to Yellow, silver, and green. Black and Turquoise I didn't target; yet....And I'm picked for some reason over the other two? >_>
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 09, 2015, 04:35:22 am
Post by: flabort on March 09, 2015, 11:53:38 am
I can tell you that I'm not black. How did you decide I was?Well, then you haven't been spending your points because you had 18 unspent on Day 3, because White and Black were the only ones I didn't peek, and I decided White had to be a patsy due to large # of points.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 09, 2015, 12:18:11 pm
Post by: flabort on March 09, 2015, 03:22:17 pm
I had my own broken point-gaining combo, no need to sap anyone.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 09, 2015, 04:44:29 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 09, 2015, 04:49:51 pm
Votes
4maskwolf
Shakerag
Flabort - Deus Asmoth
Tiruin - [1] - Flabort
Deus Asmoth - [2] - 4maskwolf, 4maskwolf,
Cheeetar
No Lynch
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, White, Silver, Brown, Purple, Turquoise, Yellow, Black
Dead Masks
Spoiler: Cream (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Gold (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Violet (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Orange (click to show/hide)
The day ends in 50 hours or on a hammer of four votes.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 09, 2015, 05:02:03 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 09, 2015, 05:06:32 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on March 09, 2015, 06:14:28 pm
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 09, 2015, 06:26:35 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on March 09, 2015, 06:48:05 pm
Post by: flabort on March 09, 2015, 06:48:51 pm
Anyways, there was one kill that I didn't want to go through that did, so I'm quick hammering to negate that particular kill. Will try again in the morning.
Post by: flabort on March 09, 2015, 06:50:21 pm
BTW, that's hammer. No more posts. :P
Post by: notquitethere on March 09, 2015, 07:08:06 pm
He pointed to Deus Asmoth who was tending to the fire. The first monk ran forward and grabbed Deus' head and pushed him into the fire. His mask caught fire, the smoke obscuring it from view. Soon his robes were ablaze.
"Shouldn't we, uh, put him out?" asked one of the initiates.
"Nah, it'll burn through eventually."
It did. And, would you know it? Deus was just peachy afterwards. For a Mabbling Monk, death is not always so permanent.
Deus Asmoth is dead. Deus Asmoth resurrected.
Spoiler: Final Vote Count (click to show/hide)
Everyone who is not Dense, gain +1 xp. Everyone who is Insidious gain +1xp. If you met the conditions for Bloodythirsty, gain +1xp. If you are Simple, make sure you do not gain more than +1xp. The thread will be locked while lynch triggered effects are implemented.
Post by: notquitethere on March 09, 2015, 07:39:52 pm
Six at the End
It was a new day. Some of the monks looked weary, their strength contested, the burden of killing and attempted killing weighing on them. Other monks were glowing, floating, shooting laser beams with their eyes and having the time of their lives. It takes all sorts.
Votes
4maskwolf
Shakerag
Flabort
Tiruin
Deus Asmoth
Cheeetar
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, White, Silver, Brown, Purple, Turquoise, Yellow, Black
Dead Masks
Spoiler: Cream (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Gold (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Violet (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Orange (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Updated List of Costs (click to show/hide)
The day ends 12AM GMT on the 13th, or on a hammer of 4 votes. The kill action won't come into effect until Wednesday 12AM.
Post by: flabort on March 09, 2015, 07:42:06 pm
Huh.
Deus, Deus, Deus, Deus, Deus
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 09, 2015, 07:55:41 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 09, 2015, 07:59:26 pm
....
Huh.
Deus, Deus, Deus, Deus, Deus
Somebody tell me that they realise that flabort is scummy as hell.Y'know, in a normal Mafia game--I'd have someone questioning me on my somewhat comical comment on 'AM I THE ONLY TOWN LEFT'?
But it never happened.
Seeing you both--my track results never happened, so it is assumed that 4mask blocked me.
And somehow, someone decided to recall Track.
Ugh Flabort. Then Deus. Bloody third-party game, and point-rigging. >_>
NQT, Why'd you make a game where you can earn points by INFLATION!? That's a broken form of economics there which is subtly not mentioned in the rules as well as toeing the line regarding the selling of rules. <_<
Post by: notquitethere on March 09, 2015, 08:07:18 pm
NQT, Why'd you make a game where you can earn points by INFLATION!? That's a broken form of economics there which is subtly not mentioned in the rules as well as toeing the line regarding the selling of rules. <_<I'll endeavour to make it harder to cheese-weasel the rules in future.
Post by: notquitethere on March 09, 2015, 08:16:50 pm
OSG was resurrected.
The laser monk shoots all his beams at Deus Asmoth.
"How- how did he get to so many beams?" cries out one of the initiates.
"PUNY MORTALS," cries the laser monk, "COWER BEFORE MY MIGHTY MIGHT!"
They don't teach speechmaking at the monastery.
Deus Asmoth is dead. Deus Asmoth was town.
Spoiler: Deus Asmoth (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Final Vote Count (click to show/hide)
Everyone who is not Dense, gain +1 xp. Everyone who is Insidious gain +1xp. If you met the conditions for Bloodythirsty, gain +1xp. If you are Simple, make sure you do not gain more than +1xp. The thread will be locked while lynch triggered effects are implemented.
Post by: notquitethere on March 09, 2015, 08:47:53 pm
WOW OK
Everyone looks on with horror at the remains of Deus Asmoth and the reanimated corpse of origamiscienceguy. The sun turns around again.
"Don't you find days go quicker when you're older?" one of the initiates muses. No kidding.
Votes
4maskwolf
Shakerag
Flabort
Tiruin
Cheeetar
origamiscienceguy
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, Orange, Silver, Brown, Purple, Turquoise, Yellow, Black
Dead Masks
Spoiler: Cream (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Gold (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Violet (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: White (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Updated List of Costs (click to show/hide)
The day ends 1.45AM GMT on the 13th, or on a hammer of 4 votes. The kill action won't come into effect until Wednesday 1.45AM.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 09, 2015, 08:49:20 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 09, 2015, 08:54:11 pm
SOMEHOW the day ended in such a short timespan...
And someone resurrected OSG.
Wow -_-
So cheesy, flabort. You could've resurrected the TOWN there.
4mask. What are you even doing :I
Flabort: Why're you being cheesy? Why didn't your kills go through? Why haven't you even poked 4mask if he was the blocked--given that your kills didn't go through?
Ugh >_>
Best chance for me, as I see it, is Deus Asmoth dying by lynch- apparently Flabort isn't aiming to kill him, and I don't exactly think he's town, so his death increases the chance of me winning.Oh bloody hell. It's a third-party bonanza. :I
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 09, 2015, 09:02:50 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on March 09, 2015, 09:04:40 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 09, 2015, 09:07:41 pm
I'm not a third party, Tiruin- I'm town, just the kind of town that's aware that if everyone else dies, I still win.Yeah. Sure. That's what I'm also aware of.
Now why in the world did you even have to make it 'my' win instead of perpetuating the group-win of town? :I
What am I doing? I still haven't changed my opinions on OSG, and the fact that he's so damn determined to avoid death AND someone hit him with a reanimate (which revives him because ghostly) is suspicious as hell....I'm wondering if he is Intermittent with his Resurrect. Because that'd be as cheesy as fish.
Post by: Cheeetar on March 09, 2015, 09:08:52 pm
I still see OSG as scummy, especially with this ghostly-resurrect stuff. I'm going to ask that we hold off on immediately lynching him until we can get Flabort to speak. Hey Flabort, how come a ton of people aren't dead yet?
Post by: flabort on March 09, 2015, 09:10:46 pm
Guys, I can do this quickhammering all day.
Post by: flabort on March 09, 2015, 09:12:53 pm
Sorry Tiruin.Because I decided that my weapon of choice is the lynch. Via stealing everybody's votes in the morning.
I still see OSG as scummy, especially with this ghostly-resurrect stuff. I'm going to ask that we hold off on immediately lynching him until we can get Flabort to speak. Hey Flabort, how come a ton of people aren't dead yet?
Post by: Tiruin on March 09, 2015, 09:14:03 pm
Argh.
4maskwolf -- I'm unsure of. Not sounding like third-party though.
Shakerag -- Has been absent :< hopeful for his health and safety.
Flabort -- :I
Tiruin -- I'm town but argh all this.
Cheeetar -- says he's town but argh all that I:
origamiscienceguy -- Why are you alive?!
Considering these ideas--I'm bringing up the same ideas as before
I seriously doubt there is a scumteam.
There must be at least 1 Third-party SK/Malevolent. Which I am considering may be 4mask or Flabort due to their turtling-policy; probably Flabort in comparison to 4mask (and where are those kills? Why did the day end SO FAST?)
....Point in case. THE HAMMER FALLS!
Huh.
Deus, Deus, Deus, Deus, Deus
EBWOP:However there's this bit.
BTW, that's hammer. No more posts. :P
So why in the world would flabort hammer?
Twice in a darn row?
NQT: Are actions processed after the hammer falls?
PPE xThree!
OSG, OSG, OSG, OSG, OSG, OSGOh you bloody cheese.
Guys, I can do this quickhammering all day.
Post by: Tiruin on March 09, 2015, 09:14:51 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 09, 2015, 09:18:20 pm
Just bloody kill me flabort. Your cheesy actions could AT LEAST BE USED AS A TOWN WEAPON, but I'd just like to be dead in seeing all mechanics being cheesed out by you. :-\...NQT: Rechecking the OP--I see no Kill Immune matching the context of
Quote
-1 - Hardcore (all protects on you fail- cannot be taken alongside Kill Immune)
Also re-asking for pulling back information:
NQT: Could you redefine what describes 'scum' in the Town wincon?
Post by: notquitethere on March 09, 2015, 09:19:30 pm
NQT: Could you redefine what describes 'scum' in the Town wincon?Players with the 'scum' alignment.
NQT: Are actions processed after the hammer falls?Actions are always processed before the hammer and happen in the order in which they were submitted.
Post by: flabort on March 09, 2015, 09:20:43 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: notquitethere on March 09, 2015, 09:24:06 pm
'Kill immune' is the old name for 'death resistant'.Just bloody kill me flabort. Your cheesy actions could AT LEAST BE USED AS A TOWN WEAPON, but I'd just like to be dead in seeing all mechanics being cheesed out by you. :-\...NQT: Rechecking the OP--I see no Kill Immune matching the context ofQuote-1 - Hardcore (all protects on you fail- cannot be taken alongside Kill Immune)
While the eternal gear of magic processing slowly turn, the day continues
Votes
4maskwolf
Shakerag
Flabort
Tiruin
Cheeetar
origamiscienceguy - 4maskwolf, Flabort
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, Orange, Silver, Brown, Purple, Turquoise, Yellow, Black
Post by: Tiruin on March 09, 2015, 09:30:21 pm
...So where were those kills, flabort? :/NQT: Are actions processed after the hammer falls?Actions are always processed before the hammer and happen in the order in which they were submitted.
I mean, nothing is even being talked about. If you're a third-party, or even the SK--finish it off already -_- The only contender is 4MASK.
And there's the choice in being a third-party; if you're going to kill us all off, at least do it in a way that we have fun too.
I mean really--nobody's even lifting the idea that I may be third-party (when I'm not)!
This is all mechanic-play now.
>_>
I miss the old CYOM.
Or at least in the new CYOM, there should be an action-ability named 'Cheese'.
While the eternal gear of magic processing slowly turn, the day continuesVote harder, Flabort. :I
Votes
4maskwolf
Shakerag
Flabort
Tiruin
Cheeetar
origamiscienceguy - 4maskwolf, Flabort
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, Orange, Silver, Brown, Purple, Turquoise, Yellow, Black
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 09, 2015, 09:30:25 pm
Somebody tell me that they realise that flabort is scummy as hell.Yes. I do. Flabort
If he was town, he would have used all his points to quickly find scum and eliminate them. Instead, he has been arrogant as hell bragging about how nobody can stop him. Anybody else agree?
Post by: Cheeetar on March 09, 2015, 09:31:23 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 09, 2015, 09:31:44 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 09, 2015, 09:32:42 pm
btw, I don't think that multivot people should count as hammers. I think that you should need 4 different people to hammer, not two people with multivote.This is wrong, fyi.
osg osg
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 09, 2015, 09:33:12 pm
Hammertime.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 09, 2015, 09:33:39 pm
Post by: flabort on March 09, 2015, 09:33:51 pm
It seems that because I forgot to queue an action in advanced when I hammered, I didn't steal those votes right away.
I have sent it in, though, so once it gets processed, OSG OSG OSG OSG OSG OSG
Post by: Tiruin on March 09, 2015, 09:35:04 pm
I am just ugh'd.Somebody tell me that they realise that flabort is scummy as hell.Yes. I do. Flabort
If he was town, he would have used all his points to quickly find scum and eliminate them. Instead, he has been arrogant as hell bragging about how nobody can stop him. Anybody else agree?
If he's third-party at all...things would be more clear--if he's SCUM-MAFIA, then he's a cat playing with mice!
I am a squeaky mouse! But my rolename isn't a mouse! I am saddened by this revelation.
If he's a third-party SK; there'd be a quick end to this.
If he's any other third-party, there'd at least be something related to it.
If he's a third-party thief, it'd be a NICE win there! But it isn't.
At least the Trickster is a smaller version of the SK! But its not working out, is it?
And HELLO ORIGAMI, could I at least have the semblance of not feeling ignored in this game and be tagged in a post there due to my question? I feel heavily snubbed. :-\
PPE 5 replies. Woohoo.
Flabort.
And Origami, could you at least answer my question?
PPE: Oh yes. Much fun.
Why don't you hammer me next, please. <_<
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 09, 2015, 09:35:16 pm
The problem is, say there are 3 people left. Then whoever posts first will automatically win the lynch.If they have two votes, then yes. That's a mechanic, not a bug.
Post by: Tiruin on March 09, 2015, 09:37:33 pm
The idea to kill everyone else ALSO makes sense as town. :I
You mean 'votes' first. :vThe problem is, say there are 3 people left. Then whoever posts first will automatically win the lynch.If they have two votes, then yes. That's a mechanic, not a bug.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 09, 2015, 09:38:47 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 09, 2015, 09:39:28 pm
Stop.This is correct, everything else is invalid.
Hammertime.
Post by: notquitethere on March 09, 2015, 10:43:48 pm
origamiscienceguy is dead. origamiscienceguy was scum.
Spoiler: origamiscienceguy (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Final Vote Count (click to show/hide)
Everyone who is not Dense, gain +1 xp. Everyone who is Insidious gain +1xp. If you met the conditions for Bloodythirsty, gain +1xp. If you are Simple, make sure you do not gain more than +1xp. The thread will be locked while lynch triggered effects are implemented.
Post by: notquitethere on March 09, 2015, 10:58:39 pm
If it wasn't obvious already
The nine monks look at each other. Four of them are just initiates, ineligible for maleficatrificatapultifrissifification. The remaining five know that there are still malficants in their midst. BUT WHO?
"Uh, it's pretty obvious..." begins one of the initiates.
"Shh," says another, "I want to see how this plays out."
Votes
4maskwolf
Shakerag
Flabort
Tiruin
Cheeetar
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, Silver, Brown, Purple, Yellow, Black
Dead Masks
Spoiler: Cream (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Gold (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Violet (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: White (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Orange (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Updated List of Costs (click to show/hide)
The day ends 4AM GMT on the 13th, or on a hammer of 3 votes. The kill action won't come into effect until Wednesday 5AM.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 09, 2015, 10:59:56 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on March 09, 2015, 11:05:05 pm
What we know for sure: Flabort isn't scum, I'm probably not. Can't discount 4maskwolf, exactly the kind of bussing stuff he'd pull. So, possible suspects: Shakerag, 4maskwolf, Tiruin.
Post by: Tiruin on March 09, 2015, 11:08:28 pm
told you he was bad news.>_>
I was biased because newbie/self-newbie empathy.
For once, the obviously scummy, incredibly poorly playing person was actually scum. Damn. Don't know whether to be surprised or not....This is the first game where I love your jokes, and/or am not sure how far your self-esteem on your alignment is, Cheeetar ._.
What we know for sure: Flabort isn't scum, I'm probably not. [...]
Scum generally aren't third-party, unless they're SK/Trickster.
Also let's see if I STILL have my vote!
...Great, fudge. I trust you and 4mask, adding in flabort to that mix (unless its super-bus time, but that'd just make this crazy).
...
Shakerag?
Post by: Cheeetar on March 09, 2015, 11:09:14 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 09, 2015, 11:10:59 pm
What, you haven't liked my jokes in other games? :(Oh!
I do, a lot! :P
I meant this is the first game where you're doubtful if you're scum or not.
...Which is weird.
You're weird o_o
In a nice way.
Post by: flabort on March 09, 2015, 11:22:47 pm
Shakerag Shakerag Shakerag Shakerag Shakerag
Post by: notquitethere on March 09, 2015, 11:33:43 pm
Post by: Varee on March 10, 2015, 01:24:33 am
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 10, 2015, 01:31:46 am
Post by: Shakerag on March 10, 2015, 01:45:39 am
I'M A SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARK
I'M A SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARK
SUCK MY DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICK
I'M A SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARK
Post by: hector13 on March 10, 2015, 01:45:50 am
You guys are the opposite of Being Safe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1CoQgX3b3U), so get back doon there and shut it, ken?
Bah!
Post by: Tiruin on March 10, 2015, 03:24:11 am
I'm going to go get some rest and do something else other than mafia. I'm not calling it a hammer until I get back so feel free to talk on, send actions etc. until then.Look what you did, flabort! D: Now the Mod is Afflicted with all the unrest and computations!
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 10, 2015, 09:30:40 am
For once, the obviously scummy, incredibly poorly playing person was actually scum. Damn. Don't know whether to be surprised or not.Hehehe my reputation for bussing can be a bad thing, can't it.
What we know for sure: Flabort isn't scum, I'm probably not. Can't discount 4maskwolf, exactly the kind of bussing stuff he'd pull. So, possible suspects: Shakerag, 4maskwolf, Tiruin.
I'm guessing that nobody died because flabort hammered before the 24 hour window was up, because said window doesn't count weekends.
Post by: Tiruin on March 11, 2015, 02:29:07 am
Because this really feels like Big Brother flabort ._. (and probably little brother 4mask).
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 11, 2015, 04:38:45 am
Post by: flabort on March 11, 2015, 08:46:44 am
You can only buy up to two copies of the same power (not counting any modifiers bought with that power) at the same time, and only sell one copy at a time. You may have as many copies of a power as you want as long as you do not buy more than two at a time.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 11, 2015, 09:19:13 am
This was my suggestion for a later game:Adding onto this, I'd say either ditch inflate or make it so that powers can only be inflated a number of times equal to their current cost in a given day.
You can only buy up to two copies of the same power (not counting any modifiers bought with that power) at the same time, and only sell one copy at a time. You may have as many copies of a power as you want as long as you do not buy more than two at a time.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 11, 2015, 09:27:24 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 11, 2015, 09:27:48 am
Or just don't be able to inflate inflate or deflateSpeaking of deflate, I think that should be removed too.
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 11, 2015, 09:27:56 am
Post by: notquitethere on March 11, 2015, 10:17:44 am
It wasn't the first time someone had uttered those words. There was a warrant on four plains for his head. But nobody had hitherto suspecting him of malefaction. Flabort did the honour of driving the hammer through his skull...
Shakerag is dead.
Needless to say, the effect wasn't quite what they'd hoped.
Shakerag resurrected
Spoiler: Final Vote Count (click to show/hide)
Everyone who is not Dense, gain +1 xp. Everyone who is Insidious gain +1xp. If you met the conditions for Bloodythirsty, gain +1xp. If you are Simple, make sure you do not gain more than +1xp. The thread will be locked while lynch triggered effects are implemented.
Post by: notquitethere on March 11, 2015, 10:20:09 am
It Proceeds
A strange sense of deja vu came over the assembly. Something was rotten in the marquee tent that they couldn't quite put their finger on.
Votes
4maskwolf
Shakerag
Flabort
Tiruin
Cheeetar
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, Silver, Brown, Purple, Yellow, Black, Turquoise
Dead Masks
Spoiler: Cream (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Gold (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Violet (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: White (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Orange (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Updated List of Costs (click to show/hide)
The day ends in 72 hours, or on a hammer of 3 votes. The kill action won't come into effect until 24 hours.
Post by: Tiruin on March 11, 2015, 11:33:40 am
I'd rather say ditch 'gaining XP from inflated/deflated powers and instead gain sold XP ONLY FROM THE BASE COSTS' >_>This was my suggestion for a later game:Adding onto this, I'd say either ditch inflate or make it so that powers can only be inflated a number of times equal to their current cost in a given day.
You can only buy up to two copies of the same power (not counting any modifiers bought with that power) at the same time, and only sell one copy at a time. You may have as many copies of a power as you want as long as you do not buy more than two at a time.
Because that inflation cheese? I did not see that in between the curvy lines of the OP.
Shakerag is dead.Why is all these resurrections making scum so obvious?! D:<
Needless to say, the effect wasn't quite what they'd hoped.
Shakerag resurrected
Post by: flabort on March 11, 2015, 11:50:11 am
Shake x5
Post by: Tiruin on March 11, 2015, 11:53:17 am
Sigh... I bet shakerag rezzed osg...Nobody listens to my theory on OSG resurrecting intermittently >_>
Shake x5
<_<
Noboooody. Or I messed up.
Also why no flabort stories?! :I
You've stolen our votes.
You've blackmailed our voice.
You've barricaded your fortress.
You blacked out the maps.
We cannot reach you. We cannot touch you.
Why do you not speak to us peasantry!
Post by: Cheeetar on March 11, 2015, 02:45:56 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 11, 2015, 02:53:31 pm
Is your theory that OSG was being resurrected intermittently, or that he has a resurrect that he was using intermittently?Given that it is an Auto instead f an ability-
Quote from: Auto
5 - Resurrection (After dying, you come alive again- you still get any day xp etc, but this auto disappears on use.)
Quote
-2 - Intermittent (your powers only work on even phases. Must have at least one power to take.)The flaw pertains to generally both categories. So its really weird for someone ELSE to use an AUTO on someone, unless..that's possible, somehow?
I mean OSG didn't resurrect upon death. He just...hid? But...
Quote
7 - Ghostly - (Your alignment doesn't flip on death (but your powers/autos/flaws will still be revealed). If your dead body is ever risen as a zombie, you will instead be resurrected. This auto disappears when the player is risen in this manner. A Ghostly player isn't given access to Dead Chat.)The orange part makes two scenarios available.
> There's someone who can...use the ability of
Quote
4 - Raise Zombie (Target dead player or dead patsy is risen as a live patsy with their original mask colour and all their powers, autos etc. They can no longer be grave-robbed.){And I did NOT YET get my Track results by the way :/ }
Or
> Intermittend.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 11, 2015, 05:46:16 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 12, 2015, 12:00:16 am
"Who's x5?" asked the pedantic initiate keeping score.
"Wh-what?" the monk was kerfuddled. "You surely know what I mean!"
"Do I?" asked the initiate. It was probably for the best that nobody could see anyone's faces behind these colourful masks.
Votes
4maskwolf
Shakerag - [1] - Flabort
Flabort
Tiruin
Cheeetar
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, Silver, Brown, Purple, Yellow, Black, Turquoise
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 12, 2015, 08:48:06 am
Let's see if my vote is still intact.
Shakerag Shakerag
Post by: notquitethere on March 12, 2015, 01:13:51 pm
The hammer was thrown...
Shakerag is dead.
But the effect wasn't exactly as expected.
Shakerag resurrected
Spoiler: Final Vote Count (click to show/hide)
Everyone who is not Dense, gain +1 xp. Everyone who is Insidious gain +1xp. If you met the conditions for Bloodythirsty, gain +1xp. If you are Simple, make sure you do not gain more than +1xp.
Post by: notquitethere on March 12, 2015, 01:15:25 pm
No... really?
On the tenth day the monks rested. And then they got up and started trying to kill one another. Fatigue and madness had set in and the line between malefactor and paragon monkly behaviour began to blur.
Votes
4maskwolf
Shakerag
Flabort
Tiruin
Cheeetar
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, Silver, Brown, Purple, Yellow, Black, Turquoise
Dead Masks
Spoiler: Cream (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Gold (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Violet (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: White (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Orange (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Updated List of Costs (click to show/hide)
The day ends in 72 hours, or on a hammer of 3 votes. The kill action won't come into effect until 24 hours.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 12, 2015, 01:16:28 pm
Post by: Shakerag on March 12, 2015, 01:58:03 pm
Post by: flabort on March 12, 2015, 03:43:04 pm
Post by: flabort on March 12, 2015, 03:44:33 pm
Shaerag shakerag shakerag shakerag
Post by: Cheeetar on March 12, 2015, 04:29:42 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 12, 2015, 06:18:27 pm
None of you are talking. It makes me sad.
Not even a hi Tiruin! >_>
...Hi Shakerag... <_<
Hi flabort... ._.
I miss you guys...
Post by: flabort on March 12, 2015, 06:27:06 pm
Also, my circumspect didn't say my actions failed, so...
Hi Tiruin! I appologize for my cheese making this game unfun at the end. Next game no cheese, I promise.
Post by: Shakerag on March 12, 2015, 06:49:59 pm
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Post by: Tiruin on March 12, 2015, 07:19:25 pm
Hi Tiruin!I like that so much o_oSpoiler (click to show/hide)
flabort flabort flabort..But this felt like outing you :<
I had doubts on you there!
Post by: Cheeetar on March 12, 2015, 07:58:07 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 12, 2015, 08:14:39 pm
Are we quite sure that Shakerag's mask is yellow?Ehh, I'm quite sure that my actions FAIL on everyone.
"Hii NQT! :D"
"Hello Tiruin."
"Can I track Yellow and Turquoise?"
"Sure. Action failed."
"That was singular."
"Action failed."
"Aww. :("
And then I was sad.
Post by: notquitethere on March 12, 2015, 08:39:10 pm
"WHY WON'T YOU JUST DIE!!!" cried the monk on his back.
Shakerag is dead. Shakerag resurrected.
Spoiler: Final Vote Count When The Hammer Struck (click to show/hide)
Everyone who is not Dense, gain +1 xp. Everyone who is Insidious gain +1xp. If you met the conditions for Bloodythirsty, gain +1xp. If you are Simple, make sure you do not gain more than +1xp.
Post by: notquitethere on March 12, 2015, 08:40:53 pm
Immortality: I Choose You!
The monks laid in the blood stained mud in the marquee tent in the middle of the mabbling plains as acid rain continued to hammer on the canvas roof above. Would any of them survive this ordeal? Could any of them not survive the ordeal if they tried? Death was proving... elusive.
Votes
4maskwolf
Shakerag
Flabort
Tiruin
Cheeetar
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, Silver, Brown, Purple, Yellow, Black, Turquoise
Dead Masks
Spoiler: Cream (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Gold (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Violet (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: White (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Orange (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Updated List of Costs (click to show/hide)
The day ends in 72 hours, or on a hammer of 3 votes. The kill action won't come into effect until 24 hours.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 12, 2015, 08:44:42 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 12, 2015, 08:46:55 pm
Post by: flabort on March 12, 2015, 09:40:48 pm
We Will exhaust your supply of points and resurrections.
Post by: Cheeetar on March 12, 2015, 09:42:26 pm
Post by: Shakerag on March 12, 2015, 09:49:51 pm
Post by: Shakerag on March 12, 2015, 09:51:56 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 13, 2015, 01:31:06 am
Shakerag@_@
Um ._.
I still like that ASCII art though! And NQT!
Post by: flabort on March 16, 2015, 02:31:15 pm
NQT: what up?
Post by: notquitethere on March 16, 2015, 02:43:04 pm
Post by: flabort on March 16, 2015, 04:38:17 pm
But it's just another manic monday... which is still ugh for you, but not as bad.
Post by: Tiruin on March 16, 2015, 07:29:30 pm
Can I assume nobody's talking because we're waiting for day-end?Well...
NQT: what up?
Stop.I think we're all listening to McHammer here. :P
Hammertime.
Post by: notquitethere on March 16, 2015, 10:50:30 pm
When every day is the same, every day can be like day 12. Every day be silent and grey.
Shakerag is dead. Shakerag was scum. Scum Team A have lost. The game continues.
Spoiler: Shakerag (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Final Vote Count When The Hammer Struck (click to show/hide)
Everyone who is not Dense, gain +1 xp. Everyone who is Insidious gain +1xp. If you met the conditions for Bloodythirsty, gain +1xp. If you are Simple, make sure you do not gain more than +1xp.
Post by: notquitethere on March 16, 2015, 10:59:25 pm
In Which Someone Probably Will Quick Hammer
The monks search Shakerag's finally actually 100% dead corpse. He's had a set of demonic runes and a poster of the evil djinn Dariush so he was obviously scum and, if the telling series of letters were anything to go by, he was in cahoots with origamiscienceguy. And yet... the acid rain, a supernatural sign of malefaction, continues to pour... there are still ne'er-do-wells in their midst.
Votes
4maskwolf
Flabort
Tiruin
Cheeetar
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, Silver, Brown, Purple, Black, Turquoise
Dead Masks
Spoiler: Cream (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Gold (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Violet (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: White (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Orange (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Yellow (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Updated List of Costs (click to show/hide)
The day ends in 72 hours, or on a hammer of 3 votes. The kill action won't come into effect until 24 hours.
Post by: Cheeetar on March 16, 2015, 11:01:02 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 16, 2015, 11:02:06 pm
So that means scumteam B, having 1-2 members left.
If it was bloody Flabort, then we'd have lost. That, or this is being a long game of D:
And it'd be hilarious if I was the last town left -_-
Tiruin, if you haven't yet, I recommend you buy Virtuous. 4maskwolf, for probably being the partner to Flabort.Why 4mask?
Post by: Cheeetar on March 16, 2015, 11:03:29 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on March 16, 2015, 11:08:45 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 16, 2015, 11:12:42 pm
Hilariously, day-hunting doesn't do any help, given the utter dependence on powers this late in game. That's also assuming you aren't scum yourself.
So putting it frankly: I'm at an impasse. :/
Recall: Somebody has been besmirching you. I recalled besmirch. None of the scum flips so far have had besmirch.That was for Afflicted, actually--everything else was due to that Afflicted.
Post by: Cheeetar on March 16, 2015, 11:14:52 pm
Who is it that you believe is as scummy as Flabort, Tiruin?'Scummy' as in, third-party scummy; I'm lesser of the impression that there's a scumteam since before and given the # of players.
It's...fluid ._.Quote from: ^ to v, towny> scummy- Persus13 CheeetarRanking this ordinally doesn't paint the right picture. What I'm saying is, is that this is a very delicate and curious position.
- 4maskwolf
- Shakerag
- Deus Asmoth
- Flabort
- Tiruin: :D
What's stopped Flabort being seen as scummy in your eyes?
Post by: Tiruin on March 16, 2015, 11:19:26 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 16, 2015, 11:24:07 pm
4maskwolf -
Flabort -
Tiruin -
Cheeetar -
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, Silver, Brown, Purple, Black, Turquoise
Post by: Tiruin on March 16, 2015, 11:26:39 pm
Gratuitous Vote Count...So. Cheeet. Your vote.
4maskwolf -
Flabort -
Tiruin -
Cheeetar -
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, Silver, Brown, Purple, Black, Turquoise
Err.
Test!
4mask
Votecount please!
Post by: notquitethere on March 16, 2015, 11:29:36 pm
4maskwolf -
Flabort -
Tiruin -
Cheeetar -
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, Silver, Brown, Purple, Black, Turquoise
Post by: Tiruin on March 16, 2015, 11:31:09 pm
Cheeetar, if you are town, say we toast to this spectacle? ._. (also stoopid timezones stopping any retaliatory 'post-first-PM-first-Action-first' treaty)
Post by: flabort on March 16, 2015, 11:35:46 pm
Cheeetar Cheeetar Cheeetar
Post by: Tiruin on March 16, 2015, 11:38:20 pm
Let's say we end the game. This dragged on a little longer than it needed to.I wish it was a...how you say...mexican standoff?
Cheeetar Cheeetar Cheeetar
Give everyone Kill and let that be the decider ._.
Cursed vote thief sending in blackmail at day...start? Hmpppphhy :I
Post by: notquitethere on March 16, 2015, 11:45:00 pm
4maskwolf -
Flabort -
Tiruin -
Cheeetar - Flabort, Flabort
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, Silver, Brown, Purple, Black, Turquoise
Post by: Cheeetar on March 16, 2015, 11:47:19 pm
And sure. A toast to being the town who are dying last, Tiruin :P
Post by: Cheeetar on March 16, 2015, 11:48:00 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on March 16, 2015, 11:51:46 pm
Actually, better plan: Buy unstoppable and blackmail, and blackmail 4maskwolf.
Post by: Cheeetar on March 16, 2015, 11:52:20 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 16, 2015, 11:55:18 pm
So you are the black mask. At least I guessed that right. Do you have any way to stop 4mask from voting, Tiruin?Wut ._.
And sure. A toast to being the town who are dying last, Tiruin :P
I'm the silver mask!
Unless someone swapped my shiny face >_>
If you can afford it: Autoblocking, blocking, and vote stealing from 4mask would stop him voting.Yeaaah no. I'm poor :v This peasant apologizes, mi'lord.
Post by: Cheeetar on March 16, 2015, 11:55:43 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 16, 2015, 11:59:11 pm
No, I mean, Flabort is the black mask....Oh great. This is a beautiful analogy to the morality of the game. xD
In Case You Wondering Vote CountDid someone just hilariously steal -just enough- to not hammer it!? :I
4maskwolf -
Flabort -
Tiruin -
Cheeetar - Flabort, Flabort
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, Silver, Brown, Purple, Black, Turquoise
Shoooorten
Can't steal my shorts! I:
Post by: notquitethere on March 17, 2015, 12:04:50 am
ShoooortenSorry kid, the only way to shorten is to hammer.
Can't steal my shorts! I:
Post by: Tiruin on March 17, 2015, 03:17:25 am
:(ShoooortenSorry kid, the only way to shorten is to hammer.
Can't steal my shorts! I:
/me is sad.
Well...um.
D: I've been blackmailed!
): And I didn't even get the mail.
|: It must be flabort's fault.
o: But then there was that one OTHER vote!
): I wonder if they triggered it right after night. Can you do that?
D: I feel useless. Why wasn't I killed earlier?! I'm a pawn! Who can't even use her vote.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 17, 2015, 08:04:26 am
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 17, 2015, 08:09:52 am
Cheeetar Cheeetar
Post by: Cheeetar on March 17, 2015, 08:28:31 am
Post by: flabort on March 17, 2015, 11:19:20 am
Anyways, that was hammer.
Post by: notquitethere on March 17, 2015, 11:29:52 am
"To hell with mystic runes and malefaction, it's time to finish this."
He starts shooting wildly as Cheeetar dives for cover and rebounds bullets with the frying pan.
"NEED MORE BULLETS!!!!!" cries the laser monk.
"I've got your back compadre," cried 4mask clasping a hand on Flabort's should and passing him a clip of ammo.
Cheeetar never stood a chance.
Cheeetar is dead. Cheeetar was town.
Spoiler: Cheeetar (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Final Vote Count When The Hammer Struck (click to show/hide)
Everyone who is not Dense, gain +1 xp. Everyone who is Insidious gain +1xp. If you met the conditions for Bloodythirsty, gain +1xp. If you are Simple, make sure you do not gain more than +1xp.
Post by: notquitethere on March 17, 2015, 11:31:06 am
Unlucky For Some
The sun rises like it never set. Tiruin looks nervously at the other monks. Something's rotten in the Mabbling Plains and it ain't just the cooking.
Votes
4maskwolf
Flabort
Tiruin
Mask colours: Red, Green, Bronze, Silver, Brown, Purple, Black
Dead Masks
Spoiler: Cream (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Pink (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Gold (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Violet (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Blue (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: White (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Orange (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Yellow (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Turquoise (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Updated List of Costs (click to show/hide)
The day ends in 72 hours, or on a hammer of 2 votes. The kill action won't come into effect until 24 hours.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 17, 2015, 01:21:57 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 17, 2015, 01:24:20 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 17, 2015, 01:35:08 pm
The pair raised their runic revolvers and pointed them at the only monk still in their way. Freeze frame. Fade to black. Credits role.
Tiruin is dead. Tiruin was town. Town have lost. The Serial Killer Hector13 has lost. Scum Team B have won.
Spoiler: Tiruin (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Final Vote Count When The Hammer Struck (click to show/hide)
Dead Chat
Scum Team A (http://quicktopic.com/51/H/mR2XCtmrZtDB7)
Scum Team B (http://quicktopic.com/51/H/u2T7dae2h8jrp)
Dead Chat (http://quicktopic.com/51/H/LFSCnZU2BZZDZ)
Post by: Shakerag on March 17, 2015, 01:36:10 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 17, 2015, 01:37:28 pm
Spoiler: Initial Roles (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: D1 Actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: D2 Actions (click to show/hide)
Post by: notquitethere on March 17, 2015, 01:37:52 pm
Spoiler: D3 Actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: D4 Actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: D5 Actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: D6 Actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: D7 Actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: D8 Actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: D9 Actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: D10 Actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: D11 Actions (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: D12 Actions (click to show/hide)
Post by: Peradon on March 17, 2015, 02:07:30 pm
Post by: Teneb on March 17, 2015, 02:58:48 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on March 17, 2015, 04:40:07 pm
What colour mask were Flabort and 4maskwolf?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 17, 2015, 05:20:58 pm
Industrious is so much worse than Flexible.Eh. Flexible is good for long-term, industrious is good for builds like mine which was purely defensive.
What colour mask were Flabort and 4maskwolf?
For those of you who are yelling at flabort for cheesing the system... I built his role...
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 17, 2015, 05:27:50 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 17, 2015, 05:37:12 pm
I'm reading scum team A's chat and Shakerag keeps talking to or about me.
oh, and I'm green, as I said earlier.
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 17, 2015, 05:48:21 pm
Post by: flabort on March 17, 2015, 06:01:11 pm
All I can say: Good lord Flabort, you broke the game.Definitely playing the next one more fairly, but man. Oh, man oh man did I ever feel a RUSH when I hammered three times in 24 hours.
Mask was Green, I was Brown.
My final role:
Flabort - ETERNAL VORTEX OF HATE - Scum - 30xp (+ a few for the ~8 days after)
Free-Recall, Free-Block, Free-Block, Free-Block, Free-Block, Free-Vote Steal, Free-Vote Steal, Free-Vote Steal, Free-Vote Steal, Free-Vote Steal, Free-Vote Steal, Free-Kill, Free-Kill, Free-Kill, Free-Deflate, Free-Deflate, Free-Deflate, Free-Deflate, Free-Deflate, Free-Self-Copycat, Unstoppable, Free-Self-Peek, Free-Self-Peek, Free-Self-Protect, Cautious, Immune, Prolific, Self-Pardon, Hasty, Circumspect, Flexible, Insured, Death Resistant, Multishop, Holy, Grounded, Resurrection, Power of Healing, Hardy, Immovable.
I didn't really need those free-kills, as I wasn't using them. But, I figured they'd be a good disguise. And if one failed another could do the job.
4mask's role:
4maskwolf - Psychic Archangel of Mass Denial - 7xp
Free-Vote Steal, Free-Roleblock, Free-Scan, Free-Sap, Industrious, Double-Voter, Death Resistant, Immune, Grounded, Multi-shop, Virtuous, Holy, Hardy, Resurrection, Ghostly, Unstoppable
Post by: Peradon on March 17, 2015, 06:06:56 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 17, 2015, 06:10:30 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 17, 2015, 06:22:01 pm
Eternal vortex of hate indeed...
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 17, 2015, 06:41:24 pm
In my opinion, the following powers need to be removed or revised:
Inflate: needs to go. It doesn't actually serve the purpose it was intended for and is simply a way to cheese the system.
Deflate: Also needs to go.
Chat: needs to go, as it is useless and contributes to power bloat
Gossip: needs to go, it is only useful as a part of incredibly convoluted scum schemes with low-yield and serves as part of the game's power-bloat
Autoblock: needs to either have a counter or be removed
Mixed blessings: effectively gives someone points/occasionally useful power in exchange for a variable amount of flaws. Should probably go.
Santa: needs to go, is contributing to the power creep of the game.
Hypnotize: can currently be used to cheese the one-kill limit, needs to go as revised copycat is stronger.
Workout: is entirely pointless. needs to go, contributing to power bloat.
Raise zombie: really not worth including in the game, contributing to power bloat, it and the necromancer should probably go.
Changeling: eeeeeeeehhhhhh... this should probably go. It's no fun to be saddled with a useless role, and since my power cutting removes basically all of the power-level-inflation stuff a useless role is forever if the changeling is enough of a dick.
Vote steal: double voter is powerful enough, this should go.
Booby-trap, grand-swap, and pardon: should all go, they are either fairly useless or blatantly overpowered or just a pain in the ass and not worth it.
Flexible: should go. This is a major contributor to the game's problems: gaining powers in any way makes it too easy to sell those powers for massive amounts of points.
Unstoppable: needs to lose that "protected against" clause, as it currently makes protect actions worthless, since with the current point level every self-respecting killer will take unstoppable.
Death-resistant: should probably go, leaving just resurrection and immune as defensive (see below about ghostly)
Networker: contributes to the power-creep, needs to go.
Ghostly: would only ever be used by scum and just wastes everyone's time, needs to go.
Also, my rules suggestion about actions:
All actions are processed in 24-hour blocks. Once the day starts, the first actions are resolved at the 24 hour mark, and all actions sent in by that time are resolved in an order determined by a resolution chart, and every 24 hours after that actions are once again resolved.
Post by: Teneb on March 17, 2015, 06:54:01 pm
Post by: flabort on March 17, 2015, 06:59:46 pm
Quote
I don't hate anyone. I'm merely disappointed in Flabort. He has fallen to the dark side.*stops munching on cookies for a second*
Vader was redeemed in the end, wasn't he?
*continues munching*
As far as autoblock:changeling, it really was my kryptonite, but already knowing who everyone was I could have reversed it with the role I received. Maybe.
Also, I kept recalling autoblock.
Post by: Cheeetar on March 17, 2015, 07:06:38 pm
As a possible alternative to vote steal: how about a power where, instead of stealing a vote, you merely remove it instead? So if player A uses it on player B, B has no votes and A still has one. It also prevents someone from solo hammering.
Isn't this how blackmail works, except less effective?
Post by: notquitethere on March 17, 2015, 07:10:34 pm
Yeah, those are mostly pretty reasonable suggestions. The next version of the game I think should have the following features:
- Make kills easier to perform and more likely to succeed (encouraging redirection rather than blockage)
- Ensure player's point-values remain more equal throughout (remove powers that vastly increase power difference between players
- Keep the rule-set as simple as possible (no fiddly exceptions)
- Make sure the workload isn't as heavy (e.g. no powers that force the mod to PM everyone)
Flabort
Innate-Autoblock+Changeling would have been your kryponite.
Deathsword
As a possible alternative to vote steal: how about a power where, instead of stealing a vote, you merely remove it instead? So if player A uses it on player B, B has no votes and A still has one. It also prevents someone from solo hammering.Yeah that's what Blackmail did.
This game might have turned out differently if the serial killer had been more interested in killing. Hector could have thrown Infects and kills without limit.
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 17, 2015, 07:13:17 pm
Post by: Teneb on March 17, 2015, 07:14:11 pm
DeathswordNevermind then. I scanned the list for anything like that, but it seems I missed it.As a possible alternative to vote steal: how about a power where, instead of stealing a vote, you merely remove it instead? So if player A uses it on player B, B has no votes and A still has one. It also prevents someone from solo hammering.Yeah that's what Blackmail did.
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 17, 2015, 07:14:42 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on March 17, 2015, 07:15:24 pm
Post by: Peradon on March 17, 2015, 07:18:56 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 17, 2015, 07:20:58 pm
Post by: Peradon on March 17, 2015, 07:25:10 pm
I just realized that it would be fun to play an automated version of CYOM (think Town of Salem).That would be hilarious...
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 17, 2015, 07:29:15 pm
One suggestion about the hammer problem: Make each player only count once for the hammer. even if they have doublevoter, they only count once towards the hammer, but twice towards the final vote count. That way, the majority of the people have to vote for a hammer.
Post by: notquitethere on March 17, 2015, 07:31:19 pm
I just realized that it would be fun to play an automated version of CYOM (think Town of Salem).That's kind of the project I was working on last year but it's sort of dormant for the time being while I work on paying stuff.
Post by: Tiruin on March 17, 2015, 08:22:42 pm
GMT +8.
It's kinda funny how long it took for you all to figure it out, really. If you'd worked together you could have actually stopped us, but I doubt Tiruin has the power to fight us both to a standstill.Oh wow.
NQT, YOU HAD FLABORT AND 4MASK AS A SCUMTEAM!?
...This was the cheapest game I've seen :/ That was just WASTING TIME since D12
I couldn't even be online for a bloody day because of stupid timezones!
>_>
This loss, instead of feeling like an actual defeat, felt like a total disappointment. A hollow disappointment.
The scumteam didn't even play well. It was less 'wordplay and intellectual prowess' and more mechanic cheese. -_-
Also on the power editing, on Inflate, the most basic way to get rid of its cheesiness is to just redact any kind of 'bonus' from SELLING INFLATED POWERS because it doesn't make sense to even do such! :-\ I had thought that the same ideology would've held before, but...playing on unspoken mechanics in between the lines? Seriously?
Ugh. Just...felt so cheap. Makes it feel a ton worse because scumteam B had an incredible ego to flaunt.
And to actually expound: This game was timezone-biased. (Generally speaking)
"Hey look'it the person on the other side of the world, pretty much far ahead than the European areas! Guess when their actions will be computed unless they were sent in advance..." :/
Post by: notquitethere on March 17, 2015, 08:32:22 pm
NQT, YOU HAD FLABORT AND 4MASK AS A SCUMTEAM!?Well, random.org made that the scum team.
And to actually expound: This game was timezone-biased. (Generally speaking)Sure, I think this is going to be last real-time game I run.
"Hey look'it the person on the other side of the world, pretty much far ahead than the European areas! Guess when their actions will be computed unless they were sent in advance..." :/
Post by: Tiruin on March 17, 2015, 08:41:47 pm
Err, that was more about the D12 continuation when I had no way to reverse any power on my part, and Cheeetar's vote was stolen, so it would be sensible instead to have ended the game like the regular variety where scum overpower town and the ending is scumsided victory.NQT, YOU HAD FLABORT AND 4MASK AS A SCUMTEAM!?Well, random.org made that the scum team.
I did like the flavor though. :P
Sure, I think this is going to be last real-time game I run.It was more about the powers and how they were run, as a general note. :/ Not orienting it against how you GM'd, given that there's a ton of ways to go around it (ie sending in advance, nothing wrong with that), but in times of technical failure, it...may be given a bit of leeway in the night, to cue up day actions or something.
Post by: Shakerag on March 17, 2015, 08:44:27 pm
So, was I acting scummy when being lynched, or was I just pinned by the scum? Because 3 of the 4 voting for me were scum...I was going to unvote you if the day had been extended. I pretty much figured you were town after I was done putting the thumbscrews on you. But since the day was about to end, I had to not mention that opinion, obviously.
Edit: Sarcasm still isn't scummy.
Post by: Peradon on March 17, 2015, 09:30:48 pm
Quote from: The Sarcastic Scum
Edit: Sarcasm still isn't scummy.
Post by: notquitethere on March 17, 2015, 09:34:04 pm
Well that game was amazing.I guess it's not every game you get changelings changelinging changelings, endless Networker spam and nine days of quickhammers.
Post by: TheDarkStar on March 17, 2015, 09:35:56 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on March 17, 2015, 09:44:47 pm
Quote
Day 13
What the hell happened in this game.
Post by: Peradon on March 17, 2015, 09:46:59 pm
Shakerag had about 4 resurrects, Flabort hammered within 2 hours of day start, Origami randomly resurrects...QuoteDay 13
What the hell happened in this game.
Everything happened.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 17, 2015, 09:48:28 pm
So, was I acting scummy when being lynched, or was I just pinned by the scum? Because 3 of the 4 voting for me were scum...If you read my scumchat, something had been bugging me all day about you and so I finally said "fuck it, going with my instincts" and gathered as much evidence as I could against you. Your play at the end was solid, but by then my hands were tied and I couldn't exactly retreat without looking scummier than I already did.
Edit: I forgot to add graverob to my "remove for the game" list.
Edit 2: If it makes you feel any better, Tiruin, I tried to win the game through talking alone, then Flabort went all vote-and-claim-happy and I was just "screw it, no use trying to play the stealth game anymore"
Post by: Varee on March 17, 2015, 10:02:20 pm
Post by: Shakerag on March 17, 2015, 10:12:47 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 18, 2015, 12:07:08 am
I could have kept it going for a few more days at least, but I was getting tired of this "real-time" bullshit.Me too to be honest. It was exciting to mod at the beginning but then it became a stay-up-until-4AM-chore.
I was relieved when Varee died and I didn't have to deal with his endless networking but then Flabort began his quick-hammering spree. I don't really begrudge either of them too much as it was all by the rules but... Never Again.
Post by: Tiruin on March 18, 2015, 01:46:55 am
Edit 2: If it makes you feel any better, Tiruin, I tried to win the game through talking alone, then Flabort went all vote-and-claim-happy and I was just "screw it, no use trying to play the stealth game anymore"You could've just killed me :I
You could've just killed me! D:
:'(
Unless y'all were trying to...ehem, hammer the point in, with all that blackmail.
I would've enjoyed a bit of flavor though. On the blackmail. :v Hmmmphy.
Post by: Varee on March 18, 2015, 02:58:04 am
Post by: Cheeetar on March 18, 2015, 03:21:41 am
Post by: Varee on March 18, 2015, 04:38:51 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 18, 2015, 06:00:03 am
Like i say, if we did no lynch d1 and maybe d2 this game might turn out differently.I really don't see how you figure that, aside from flabort maybe needing a few more quick hammers to finish off the last town.
Post by: notquitethere on March 18, 2015, 06:33:27 am
Post by: hector13 on March 18, 2015, 08:51:23 am
This game might have turned out differently if the serial killer had been more interested in killing. Hector could have thrown Infects and kills without limit.
I was working toward that, but got changeling'd with crap D1 :P thanks Shakerag.
Then Tiruin threw out the whole "someone has poison/infect!" and that kind of scared me away from buying infect because then I thought there would be mass buying of immune and/or circumspect. Perhaps I just thought too highly of everyone heh.
Then DA killed me when I got booby-trap :( bitch.
Post by: notquitethere on March 18, 2015, 11:51:06 am
Post by: Tiruin on March 18, 2015, 11:52:52 am
The funny thing was, the only Infection in the game was done after Tiruin falsely claimed that people were using Infect.:I
...What was I supposed to infer, when nothing changed when I cleansed myself? D:
It was reasonable, right? :-\
...What really happened?
Post by: notquitethere on March 18, 2015, 12:02:59 pm
You were blocked. You were blocked almost every day in this game.The funny thing was, the only Infection in the game was done after Tiruin falsely claimed that people were using Infect.:I
...What was I supposed to infer, when nothing changed when I cleansed myself? D:
It was reasonable, right? :-\
...What really happened?
Post by: Tiruin on March 18, 2015, 12:20:28 pm
...ah.You were blocked. You were blocked almost every day in this game.The funny thing was, the only Infection in the game was done after Tiruin falsely claimed that people were using Infect.:I
...What was I supposed to infer, when nothing changed when I cleansed myself? D:
It was reasonable, right? :-\
...What really happened?
Someone loved me so hard, they encased me in Lego.
Well, at least I love those blocks ;~;
Thanks. :I
So mean.
Much torture.
Ahh.
Post by: Persus13 on March 18, 2015, 04:49:55 pm
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 18, 2015, 05:21:38 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 18, 2015, 05:24:16 pm
Seriously though, was tiruin and I the only ones who saw that flabort was scum at day 7?I did at D1 :D
Post by: Deus Asmoth on March 18, 2015, 05:33:59 pm
Seriously though, was tiruin and I the only ones who saw that flabort was scum at day 7?You were scum as well, though. Your opinion meant nothing to the town.
Post by: Persus13 on March 18, 2015, 06:36:27 pm
time for a 4maskwolf breakdown of powers and autos and flaws: what should stay, what should go?Perhaps simply nerfing Inflate so that it can't self target, or simply making it so that selling powers always sells at either the price you bought it or at starting price could solve this issue.
In my opinion, the following powers need to be removed or revised:
Inflate: needs to go. It doesn't actually serve the purpose it was intended for and is simply a way to cheese the system.
Deflate: Also needs to go.
Chat: needs to go, as it is useless and contributes to power bloatAgreed on Chat, but Gossip is fine because it gives the blatant report a degree of uncertainty at the end of day which is a bit necessary.
Gossip: needs to go, it is only useful as a part of incredibly convoluted scum schemes with low-yield and serves as part of the game's power-bloat
Autoblock: needs to either have a counter or be removedEasiest counter would probably be jacking up the price a couple of points.
Santa: needs to go, is contributing to the power creep of the game.You fine with Bless?
Workout: is entirely pointless. needs to go, contributing to power bloat.Agreed
Raise zombie: really not worth including in the game, contributing to power bloat, it and the necromancer should probably go.Agreed that these should go unless they can be made more appealing in some fashion.
Booby-trap, grand-swap, and pardon: should all go, they are either fairly useless or blatantly overpowered or just a pain in the ass and not worth it.Agreed on Booby-trap. Pardon might be salvageable if it gets changed and made so Self-Pardon isn't allowed. Grand Swap would be cool if anyone ever used it.
All actions are processed in 24-hour blocks. Once the day starts, the first actions are resolved at the 24 hour mark, and all actions sent in by that time are resolved in an order determined by a resolution chart, and every 24 hours after that actions are once again resolved.I second this suggestion. This also gives less of an advantage to players in NQT's timezone or around it.
Post by: notquitethere on March 18, 2015, 07:32:39 pm
Spoiler: Masquerade Power List (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Action Resolution Order and Queued Action Rules (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Alignments (click to show/hide)
Post by: Varee on March 18, 2015, 09:46:55 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on March 18, 2015, 10:56:44 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 18, 2015, 11:04:22 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 19, 2015, 12:16:59 am
Oi, he meant something to the town! I didn't think of Origami as scum!Seriously though, was tiruin and I the only ones who saw that flabort was scum at day 7?You were scum as well, though. Your opinion meant nothing to the town.
But yeah, I somehow didn't listen to my intuition agaaaaain in seeing flabort as scum -_-
WHY DIDN'T YOU KILL ME THOUGH D:
I know if I don't do this now, I'll forget all the insights when I go to amend it later. Here's a more streamlined version of the power list. (Let's put aside for now how real-time the game will be.) Let's assume players start with 5xp again. I've got rid of all the powers/autos/flaws that made my life too difficult and made protect more powerful by removing unstoppable. I've got rid of blocking because redirecting is way more interesting. Probably some other changes I'd want to make, but should be less bloated and more straightforward on the whole.NQT ;~;Spoiler: Masquerade Power List (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Action Resolution Order and Queued Action Rules (click to show/hide)Spoiler: Alignments (click to show/hide)
The available combination would be a desirable poison/infect scumteam though. Given the cost-point bonus, I don't seemingly see the marker of 'poison/infect = scumkill' there :<
Post by: flabort on March 19, 2015, 12:22:47 am
Because you kept saying that I seemed town, so I figured it would spread misinformation; and because I thought due to timezones and such that you'd be unable to pull off any anti-god-flabort plan.
But yeah, I somehow didn't listen to my intuition agaaaaain in seeing flabort as scum -_-
WHY DIDN'T YOU KILL ME THOUGH D:
Post by: Tiruin on March 19, 2015, 12:28:46 am
You...did note that my ability log pretty much noted my...lack of power, right? :PBecause you kept saying that I seemed town, so I figured it would spread misinformation; and because I thought due to timezones and such that you'd be unable to pull off any anti-god-flabort plan.
But yeah, I somehow didn't listen to my intuition agaaaaain in seeing flabort as scum -_-
WHY DIDN'T YOU KILL ME THOUGH D:
I still would've liked to see you kill us all, like the mustachio'd villain you were, this game.
Post by: notquitethere on March 19, 2015, 12:32:53 am
NQT ;~;Uh, are you trying to say that poison and infect are currently too expensive?
The available combination would be a desirable poison/infect scumteam though. Given the cost-point bonus, I don't seemingly see the marker of 'poison/infect = scumkill' there :<
Post by: Tiruin on March 19, 2015, 12:38:27 am
No, I mean, they are useful and pretty balanced, but it isn't (for me anyway) noted that it contributes to the scumkill limit.NQT ;~;Uh, are you trying to say that poison and infect are currently too expensive?
The available combination would be a desirable poison/infect scumteam though. Given the cost-point bonus, I don't seemingly see the marker of 'poison/infect = scumkill' there :<
Post by: notquitethere on March 19, 2015, 12:54:31 am
Oh, I didn't put the full rules up. As in this game, they still contribute to the scum kill limit.No, I mean, they are useful and pretty balanced, but it isn't (for me anyway) noted that it contributes to the scumkill limit.NQT ;~;Uh, are you trying to say that poison and infect are currently too expensive?
The available combination would be a desirable poison/infect scumteam though. Given the cost-point bonus, I don't seemingly see the marker of 'poison/infect = scumkill' there :<
Post by: Cheeetar on March 19, 2015, 01:42:37 am
Post by: origamiscienceguy on March 19, 2015, 01:58:18 am
Post by: notquitethere on March 19, 2015, 02:01:58 am
If a townie is infected by mafia and then infects other people, do both of them die the day after or only one, regarding the scum kill limit?Both: secondary infections don't count towards the scum team limit.
Also, the scum teams were unfair. Scum team B knew that there were two scum teams while Scum team A didn't.I don't think I explicitly told either team but it was obvious to both.
Post by: Cheeetar on March 19, 2015, 02:27:30 am
Post by: notquitethere on March 19, 2015, 03:20:01 am
If a scum person is infected by a townie and then infects other townies, does that count towards the scum team limit? What if he's infected by a member of his own team?Ooh, good question. If you infect someone (knowingly or otherwise) then that kill counts as yours. If a scum player is infected and infects someone else, that death would count towards the scum team limit.
Post by: Cheeetar on March 19, 2015, 04:11:09 am
Post by: notquitethere on March 19, 2015, 11:30:19 am
Post by: Tiruin on March 19, 2015, 08:14:19 pm
They can be infected, but only one person will dieSo...your flavor for the game will follow a pandemic then, where many people are inoculating the infection, yet death occurs after a general range of time? :D
This is brilliant and scary.