Bay 12 Games Forum

Finally... => Forum Games and Roleplaying => Mafia => Topic started by: dakarian on October 20, 2009, 03:40:29 pm

Title: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: dakarian on October 20, 2009, 03:40:29 pm
So begins YET another Beginner's Mafia.  This time, I am considering things a little different.

Firstly, I'm considering only allowing beginners to play, no playing ICs.  That will mean I'll need 9 new players.

Instead, I will want 2 ICs that will act as coaches: one for the mafia, one for the town.  The Town IC will know what the town knows but will NOT be playing with the town formally.  Instead, I want them to help guide the players in town play.  Help them gather themselves together, spot scum/town tells, learn about terminology, ext.  They can comment freely on the game but should focus on developing good players, NOT winning the game.

The Scum IC won't be speaking to the town much.  Instead, they will focus towards helping the mafia in their personal chat.  The scum IC isn't banned from talking to the town but they are not to mislead the town.  Again, the goal is to develop good playing, not help your side win.

The Rules:

You may NOT PM to anyone except to me or from one mafia member to another.  Furthermore, ALL discussion about this game, even indirectly, can only occur in this thread.

All votes must be colored red.  To avoid confusion, only use that color when you are voting for someone.  You must also Unvote before you vote for another.  That was an issue last game so I'll stress again, if you do NOT unvote, your new vote will NOT count.  No Lynch votes are allowed.

Days will last for 2 days or until the conversation dies down.  Nights will last 24 hours or until all night roles have been sent to me.  The deadline will be posted regularly and I retain the ability to hurry the deadline for inactivity or extend the deadline if enough request it.  Note that any deadline that falls on a weekend will be pushed back to the following Monday.  Note that you may request to extend or shorten the day. 

Upon deadline, the player with the most votes will be lynched.  If there is a tie, there will be no lynch. Once dead, you may not speak or PM anyone about the game, living or otherwise.  A Dead chat will be made available.

Mafia will be given their own Chat to speak to one another once roles have been sent.

Bolded sentences can be used to catch my attention.  Italics used by me is flavor and is just there to be interesting.  Note you are free to apply flavor as you wish.

Do NOT quote my PM text and do NOT edit your posts (you can double post if you need to)

Lastly any suggestion of breaking a rule in the main chat will be treated as the rule already broken.  I reserve the right to Modkill, ban, and even force a loss on the player's side for such actions.  If you have any questions or wish to make sure of the legality of an action, PM me first.

You can, of course, ask any questions you may have.

Roles:
  Townsperson: The basic town role. Your goal is to help the town lynch all of the mafia players. You win as long as the town wins.
  Mafia: The basic antagonist role. You and the other Mafia players work together to kill off the townspeople. During the day, you pretend to be normal townspeople and voting on who is to be lynched. During the night, you will tell me the name of the player you wish to kill along with which of you will kill them. You win once you have greater then or equal to the number of town aligned players.
  Mafia Roleblocker: Similar to the mafia.  However, in nights when you are not the one assigned to kill, you may choose one person for yourself.  The person you choose will be unable to perform their night action.
 Mafia Godfather:  Similar to the mafia.  However, when investigated by the cop, they will show up as an innocent townsperson.
  Cop: An honest cop, he may choose one player each night to investigate. He will then learn if that player is Mafia or Town.
  Doctor: The doctor may choose one player each night to protect from the mafia's night kill.

Players:
Org
Apostolic Nihilist
Martyr Syndrome
tehstefan
CobaltKobold
SirBayer
MagmaDeath substituting for Laetificus
Vector
RedWarrior0

ICs:
Webadict
Pandarsenic
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: Org on October 20, 2009, 03:45:49 pm
IN!
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: webadict on October 20, 2009, 04:00:55 pm
Mafia IC...?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: Leafsnail on October 20, 2009, 04:12:23 pm
Too cruel, webadict.  Too cruel... although it would certainly teach good play.

Now I'm thinking who'd be the best candidate for town play... town wins don't tend to be as dramatic as scum wins.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on October 20, 2009, 04:26:21 pm
I'll join. I'm still a beginner, I think.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: Pandarsenic on October 20, 2009, 05:28:37 pm
I think me as Mafia, Web as Town, would be the best IC combo if nobody else wants in. Web is good Mafia, but his skill really shines when he's town.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 20, 2009, 05:43:56 pm
N?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 20, 2009, 06:42:02 pm
I'll join and post content this time, but beware: my window of opportunity is limited, and my parents may not let me on the computer for some time. In, but if my profile is inactive for 30 or so hours, replace me.

Also, how funny would it be if someone made an account named In?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: dakarian on October 20, 2009, 07:14:35 pm
When it comes to attendance. 

I'll admit, I may get a little impatient when I don't see 50 pages of text every day.  In truth, you are technically active if you can post once a day or around so. 

I give some flex depending on content.  Simply put, when you CAN post, don't post about how you weren't around or that you will post more later.  Post about the game itself.  If I see that you are making the best use of the time you do have, I won't mind the times you don't have.

Also, telling me ahead of time is also useful.  As that I'll make some consideration for you Red. 

I will say, though, that since in-game days only last about 2 RL days if you can only post the minimum then make GOOD use of it since the town NEEDS you to win (triply so if you're mafia).

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: dakarian on October 20, 2009, 07:18:40 pm
As for Pandar and Web, I marked you both ICs for now.  I'll let you two decide just which one will be which.


Sidenote: Though I'll accept folks that have played but feel they need some extra work, I'm viewing this game as a "My first mafia".  Thus, if you have ANY questions, like "What's a WIFOM?", "Scumtells.. people send messages?" and "HOW DO YOU PLAY!!!!!!?!!?!!" Feel free to ask.  You can ask them during the game.. but if you have them now, why wait?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 20, 2009, 07:23:12 pm
Actually, now that I think about it, I can probably post a bit more on weekends.

And yes, I did vote In. Votecount? [/joking]
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: webadict on October 20, 2009, 09:07:17 pm
Okay, okay. Pandarsenic can be mafia. I'll be town.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: Eduren on October 20, 2009, 09:48:44 pm
Once again, if your looking for beginners, I suggest making a post in Forum Games or General Discussion.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 20, 2009, 09:53:10 pm
N?
O. I'm feeling worse than usual right now, I don't want my hand in too many pots necessarily.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: dakarian on October 20, 2009, 09:57:22 pm
aww.. so you're out? :/
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 20, 2009, 10:10:16 pm
Presently. My mood may change later. It's fickle.

But right now I feel like a Jester. Why so serious, Mafia players?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: dakarian on October 20, 2009, 10:13:45 pm
Because it's the internet.

And the internet is Serious Business.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: tehstefan on October 20, 2009, 11:56:10 pm
I'm in. I need more work.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: Martyr Syndrome on October 21, 2009, 04:12:28 pm
I've been waiting around for a Beginner's game for a little while. I've yet to play one, so I suppose this would be a good opportunity. In. However, if you feel the urge to shout, "learn 2 play n00b!!1" by all means, please do. I need all the criticism I you can give, constructive or otherwise. I'll learn quickly, that way.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: Vector on October 21, 2009, 04:13:49 pm
However, if you feel the urge to shout, "learn 2 play n00b!!1" by all means, please do. I need all the criticism I you can give, constructive or otherwise. I'll learn quickly, that way.

Bah, you're just going to encourage Webadict.  Oh, well... at least he'll be happy.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: Martyr Syndrome on October 21, 2009, 04:16:28 pm
I aim to please.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: webadict on October 21, 2009, 07:28:45 pm
I aim to please.
I'll yell at you sooooo much... :)
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: Martyr Syndrome on October 21, 2009, 07:36:56 pm
I look forward to learning/being yelled at from the best.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 21, 2009, 08:33:25 pm
I'm going to get out of this. I can't really keep playing mafia with my limited access and other problems.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: dakarian on October 23, 2009, 01:17:04 am
Ok, Red.  RL > Mafia after all.

So, who else is in?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 23, 2009, 04:18:18 am
I think I'll try to be in. SMOL ended.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups end Monday
Post by: dakarian on October 23, 2009, 02:42:43 pm
Alright, 5 people so far.

I'll continue the signups until Monday, after that I'm going to start.

A game with 5 people can work.  It'll be shorter, with 1 mafia and 1 possible doc, but it's doable.  More people is merrier (I typically prefer 9 or 10).
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: SirBayer on October 25, 2009, 11:06:16 pm
I'm in, gents! New player, thank Pandarsenic for my presence.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: Pandarsenic on October 25, 2009, 11:10:43 pm
You'll all be cursing me by the end of the week.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: SirBayer on October 25, 2009, 11:36:14 pm
HEY NOW >:I
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: Pandarsenic on October 25, 2009, 11:38:45 pm
YOU'RE AN ALL STAR <_<
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: SirBayer on October 25, 2009, 11:45:22 pm
THAT'S EVEN WORSE
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: webadict on October 25, 2009, 11:47:27 pm
THAT'S EVEN WORSE
Not how the song goes!
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: SirBayer on October 25, 2009, 11:58:41 pm
THAT'S EVEN WORSE
Not how the song goes!
I hate the song because I can only think of Shrek when I hear it and while Shrek wasn't a miserable movie it's not what I prefer to think about right now
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: webadict on October 26, 2009, 12:00:56 am
THAT'S EVEN WORSE
Not how the song goes!
I hate the song because I can only think of Shrek when I hear it and while Shrek wasn't a miserable movie it's not what I prefer to think about right now
What movie would you rather think of? The Little Mermaid?

"Under the sea...
Under the sea...
... Uh... something something...
Music... ... me?"

You get the idea.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: SirBayer on October 26, 2009, 12:03:02 am
I get the idea.

The idea is to shoot you.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: Pandarsenic on October 26, 2009, 12:04:56 am
No, no, that's in KWN Mafia.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: Eduren on October 26, 2009, 12:08:02 am
THAT'S EVEN WORSE
Not how the song goes!
I hate the song because I can only think of Shrek when I hear it and while Shrek wasn't a miserable movie it's not what I prefer to think about right now
Ughhh. Same here. My little siblings had the soundtrack.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: Leafsnail on October 26, 2009, 05:47:40 am
Under the sea!
Under the sea!
Everything's better, even the weather, under the sea...
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: SirBayer on October 26, 2009, 11:09:32 am
JUST

STOP

D:
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups.
Post by: dakarian on October 26, 2009, 11:55:12 am
now now, no torturing the novice before the game begins.


Speaking of which, I have an option: I could start the game with the players we have now or wait to finish filling up the slots.

Differences:

9 people = 2 mafia, a possible doc/cop/godfather/roleblocker.  Means waiting for 3 more people

6 people = 1 mafia, possible doc/roleblocker, shorter game.  Means being able to start now

What do you guys think?

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 3 slots remaining
Post by: webadict on October 26, 2009, 11:59:49 am
I disagree. 6 players with 1 scum is fairly easy for the town.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 3 slots remaining
Post by: dakarian on October 26, 2009, 12:02:40 pm
It's 2 mislynches and a possible nolynch though so you get only 2 changes to figure out who it is.



Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 3 slots remaining
Post by: SirBayer on October 26, 2009, 12:12:49 pm
I vote we wait and just actively recruit as necessary.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 3 slots remaining
Post by: Pandarsenic on October 26, 2009, 12:28:14 pm
I'm with webadict: 1/6 scum is easy for town.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 3 slots remaining
Post by: Martyr Syndrome on October 27, 2009, 09:25:26 am
I've got the patience to wait. No biggy.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 3 slots remaining
Post by: dakarian on October 29, 2009, 08:24:32 pm
Bump so that more novices can spot this.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 3 slots remaining
Post by: Org on October 29, 2009, 08:25:26 pm
What are ICs?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 3 slots remaining
Post by: dakarian on October 29, 2009, 08:57:51 pm
In this case, they are coaches: outside the game but able to comment and support the players in the game.  Their goal isn't to win but to, instead, help you learn the tricks and pitfalls of the game.

The Town IC knows what the town knows and, thus, can help the town learn how to organize, scumhunt, and avoid the traps that cause a town to lose.

The mafia IC can contact the mafia through Quick Topic so they can help the mafia avoid detection and confuse the town.

The ICs shouldn't be trying to win the game for the town (nor the town should use the ICs to try to win) they are free to speak directly about the game.  It's different from the ICs in the other games, which had to balance town aid with their own wishes to win (especially for mafia ICs).
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 3 slots remaining
Post by: webadict on October 29, 2009, 09:44:41 pm
In this case, they are coaches: outside the game but able to comment and support the players in the game.  Their goal isn't to win but to, instead, help you learn the tricks and pitfalls of the game.

The Town IC knows what the town knows and, thus, can help the town learn how to organize, scumhunt, and avoid the traps that cause a town to lose.

The mafia IC can contact the mafia through Quick Topic so they can help the mafia avoid detection and confuse the town.

The ICs shouldn't be trying to win the game for the town (nor the town should use the ICs to try to win) they are free to speak directly about the game.  It's different from the ICs in the other games, which had to balance town aid with their own wishes to win (especially for mafia ICs).
So, what am I allowed to do in this game?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 3 slots remaining
Post by: Laetificus on October 29, 2009, 10:22:32 pm
I'll join. If "beginner" is the only requirement, then hopefully this being my first Mafia qualifies me.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 3 slots remaining
Post by: Pandarsenic on October 29, 2009, 10:48:00 pm
The ICs shouldn't be trying to win the game for the town (nor the town should use the ICs to try to win) they are free to speak directly about the game.  It's different from the ICs in the other games, which had to balance town aid with their own wishes to win (especially for mafia ICs).

I can definitely support that this was a problem for me as the scum IC.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 3 slots remaining
Post by: webadict on October 29, 2009, 10:48:38 pm
I'll join. If "beginner" is the only requirement, then hopefully this being my first Mafia qualifies me.
It'll be just fine. Don't take my yelling personally and you'll do well.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 3 slots remaining
Post by: dakarian on October 29, 2009, 10:58:22 pm
@Laetificus

Yah, that would do. :D

Sidenote: I'm tempted to say that anyone either not in the Karma Thread or who still have a "*" counts as beginner enough to play.

Not to say that those without a star CAN'T play, but it'll be more of a case by case basis.

@web

Imagine you're a General with a pack of green Recruits in Boot Camp.  The recruits may only care about passing through that obstacle course but you want them to be good and strong enough for WAR!

In other words: look for them doing something stupid and get them to do something smart.  Whether town wins or loses, YOU win when the players can actually get through a game-Day without making you slam your head on the keyboard.

@Pandar

In particular, I'd like you to get the mafioso to at least actually USE Quick topic.  Many don't even bother using it much and IT SHOWS! 

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 2 slots remaining
Post by: Vector on October 29, 2009, 11:00:57 pm
I would totally play, but I'm not sure I count as a beginner anymore, no matter how stupid I am.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 2 slots remaining
Post by: Pandarsenic on October 29, 2009, 11:04:15 pm
Aye, the coordination Toony and I managed in NSB Mafia helped us a lot.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 2 slots remaining
Post by: SirBayer on October 29, 2009, 11:09:05 pm
My new goal in life:

Cause head-desks. Ideally hospitalizing ones.

And darn it, I'm good at that.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 2 slots remaining
Post by: dakarian on October 29, 2009, 11:11:05 pm
Vector, you're at 6 Starred currently.

As such, unless others think my 'starred can play' theory is too messed up I can let you in.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 2 slots remaining
Post by: Vector on October 29, 2009, 11:15:55 pm
... In.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 2 slots remaining
Post by: dakarian on October 29, 2009, 11:23:23 pm
1 slot left
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 2 slots remaining
Post by: Vector on October 29, 2009, 11:23:55 pm
Think you hit "quote" rather than "modify," there.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 1 slot remaining
Post by: dakarian on October 29, 2009, 11:26:29 pm
YOU
SAW
NOTHING!
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 1 slot remaining
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 29, 2009, 11:31:59 pm
which nothing would that be?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 1 slot remaining
Post by: dakarian on October 30, 2009, 12:05:52 am
Exactly
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 1 slot remaining
Post by: webadict on October 30, 2009, 02:20:28 am
Ah, come on! One more person!
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 1 slot remaining
Post by: SirBayer on October 30, 2009, 04:57:37 pm
It could take a long time...
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 1 slot remaining
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 30, 2009, 07:31:53 pm
I suppose I'll join again, assuming Dak lets me. Just don't expect too much activity. School takes up a good bit of my life.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 1 slot remaining
Post by: dakarian on October 30, 2009, 08:17:58 pm
I'll put it to this:

Will you be able to make at least one good post a day on average?  By 'good' I don't mean Wall of Text style analysis or a whole string of aggressive scumhunts, but something that shows "oh crap, I have one chance of winning this game.. better make it count". 

If you believe you can do that then write 'IN' and I'll bring you in.

@everyone

For the record, I run game days 2 RL days at a time.  I usually get bothered only when I see no post during those 2 days.  Keep within that and I consider you active.  Try to avoid "Oh I'm here!" posts though.. when you can post, post about the game itself.

Note that's NOT a hard-rule, just a mindset to hold on to.   
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 1 slot remaining
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 30, 2009, 08:20:48 pm
Yeah, IN. IC "coaches" will make for a better (beginner's) game anyway. I'll just have a limited posting window, but it should be better than before.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Signups 1 slot remaining
Post by: dakarian on October 30, 2009, 08:50:17 pm
Slots filled!

Sending PM prods to all players.  Reply to the prods and you'll receive your role.  Once everyone has their role, we can begin.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Starting up!
Post by: Org on October 30, 2009, 10:14:53 pm
I will not be on til late tommorrow. Tourney
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Starting up!
Post by: webadict on October 30, 2009, 10:49:14 pm
*Pzzzt* This is Ranger Webadict.

A good way to start the game off is by randomly voting someone. Anyone really.

That is all for now. Over. *Pzzzt*
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Starting up!
Post by: Pandarsenic on October 30, 2009, 11:09:38 pm
Protip: Webadict is always the scum.

<.<
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Starting up!
Post by: dakarian on October 30, 2009, 11:14:24 pm
Before people get silly:

The game has NOT started yet, though I see some folks are already in character.

Yes, you are free to chatter in the pre-game warm up.

Sidenote: waiting on 5 people
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Starting up!
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 31, 2009, 03:41:49 am
Protip: Webadict is always the scum.

<.<
Is that so.
I think me as Mafia, Web as Town, would be the best IC combo if nobody else wants in. Web is good Mafia, but his skill really shines when he's town.
Pandarsenic is lying mafia scum, clearly.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Starting up! (accepting Spectators and Subs)
Post by: dakarian on October 31, 2009, 08:59:12 am
Waiting on 4 people.

Also, it would be appreciated if a few people could sign up who will be willing to Sub if one of the other players need to be replaced.  You can be of any skill-level to Sub, not just a beginner.


Also accepting Spectators, in both Non-spoiler and Spoiler seating.  Note that you may not post on the thread or act as a Sub if you Spectate in either form.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Starting up!
Post by: ToonyMan on October 31, 2009, 10:59:02 am
Spoiler Spectating please.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Starting up!
Post by: dakarian on October 31, 2009, 11:18:26 am
2 people remaining. 

Just note: even after the game begins, I will accept Subs/Spectators.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Starting up!
Post by: SirBayer on October 31, 2009, 12:56:45 pm
I vote Pandadict.

I can do that, right?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Starting up!
Post by: dakarian on October 31, 2009, 01:07:18 pm

Webadict: CoboldKobold
Pandarsenic: Webadict
Pandadict (interpreted as both Web and Pandar): SirBayer


Webadict, Extreme Supersaint Town IC, and Pandarsenic, Extreme Supersaint Mafia IC, have been lynched.

The effect takes hold!
Org, beginner, has been lynched
Apostolic Nihilist, beginner, has been lynched
Martyr Syndrome, beginner, has been lynched
tehstefan, beginner, has been lynched
CobaltKobold, beginner, has been lynched
SirBayer, beginner, has been lynched
Laetificus, beginner, has been lynched
Vector, beginner, has been lynched
RedWarrior0, beginner, has been lynched
Dakarian, Host, has been lynched.


Dakarian has come back to life.

The Host wins!

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: dakarian on October 31, 2009, 01:23:03 pm
The game has begun.  It is now Day 1.

Surviving players:
Org
Apostolic Nihilist
Martyr Syndrome
tehstefan
CobaltKobold
SirBayer
Laetificus
Vector
RedWarrior0

Deadline, Tuesday, 3rd November 11am EST.

Snow.

Snow fills the serene rocky landscape.  Beautiful and white, it casts a peaceful awe over a small log cabin.  To Sargent Dakarian, however, the portrait seemed more of nature wearing white to a funeral, complete with a large, wooden coffin.

It had been several, painful days since the report came in: several vacationers trapped in a snow covered cabin with little food, no electricity, and only intermittent contact with the owner, Webadict.   

Although the owner didn't know everything that happened, what he did hear spurred the rescue crews into a panic.  Madness, death, betrayal, and two murderers willing to do anything.  The crews worked as hard as they could but, by then, the insanity had passed.  Now all that was left, now that they reached what remained of the vacationers was to gather the pieces and find out what happened.

With that, Dakarian opened the door and started his investigation.  The scene was messy but, between what was told to him and what he found, he was able to get a sense of what had happened. 

Everything started once they discovered that they were snowed in.  They all gathered together in the living room when...


Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Pandarsenic on October 31, 2009, 01:48:06 pm
A bear attacked, mauling Webadict mercilessly.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 31, 2009, 01:53:26 pm
Martyr Syndrome, why do you have to die for so many causes?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: SirBayer on October 31, 2009, 02:19:53 pm
Well then, clean slate right now. Random voting time, so I'm going to pick a random person using random.org!

The result is ironically RedWarrior0. I really don't know too much about what you do during random voting phase, other than random voting, so it seems like we have to wait for someone to die and to see night actions before we start scumhunting. I could be wrong here, though.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on October 31, 2009, 02:22:26 pm
SirBayer, that's not entirely correct. I know, because I've been called out for having that opinion.
RVS can be one of the town's greatest advantages, and it can really help to expose scum early on.
Applying a liberal amount of pressure over a controlled area can cause wondrous things to happen -- people crack easier than you might think.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Martyr Syndrome on October 31, 2009, 02:30:21 pm
Laetificus, what's your opinion on the current state of things? I'm curious to hear what you plan on doing this turn.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: SirBayer on October 31, 2009, 02:48:24 pm
SirBayer, that's not entirely correct. I know, because I've been called out for having that opinion.
RVS can be one of the town's greatest advantages, and it can really help to expose scum early on.
Applying a liberal amount of pressure over a controlled area can cause wondrous things to happen -- people crack easier than you might think.

I don't entirely understand how. I am a beginner, though. Perhaps Webadict would be so kind as to explain...? Or you.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: webadict on October 31, 2009, 03:07:14 pm
SirBayer, that's not entirely correct. I know, because I've been called out for having that opinion.
RVS can be one of the town's greatest advantages, and it can really help to expose scum early on.
Applying a liberal amount of pressure over a controlled area can cause wondrous things to happen -- people crack easier than you might think.

I don't entirely understand how. I am a beginner, though. Perhaps Webadict would be so kind as to explain...? Or you.
Basically, to some effect, the RVS sets up completely unreasonable votes for absolutely any reason. These votes have different effects on others. There are even specific strategies to the RVS, like the Toony Tunnel, which I have YET to see miss, by the way.

Your goal is to get the other person to react. Various reactions are scummy and some are townie. Overreactions are scummy for beginner players. Overexplanatory is scummy. Various things can be scummy.

A good place to learn some scumtells is the Mafiawiki (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page).
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Pandarsenic on October 31, 2009, 03:27:18 pm
Webadict, Toony Tunnel has missed - the Beginner Mafia where he and I were both ICs. If the Toony Tunnel misses, it's very easy for it to be encouraged by scum. It's just that its successes are so spectacular and hilarious that you can't help but remember them.

The way I see the RVS is more like this: the principle of Mafia is uninformed majority vs. informed minority; thus, the way to even out the playing field (by which I mean for the town to seize the advantage) is for the majority to GATHER information. The Mafia's goal is to make sure as much of this information as possible is meaningless, though of course that's difficult. The best way is to ask irrelevant questions. I prefer, as town, to ask questions that force the scum to say things they don't want to, though this will often lead to them trying to WIFOM you.

I'm going to teach the town my favorite two questions.
1) Who would be your favorite scum partner?
2) Who would be the scum team you would least like to fight against?

Of course, they should be forced to answer why for both of those.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: tehstefan on October 31, 2009, 04:00:47 pm
Org mind coming in here and talking to us?

And yes, RVS is very useful, if for no other reason than you can read people. If people seem to change how they work from the RVS to current, they are likely trying to hide something they let slip, or at least thats what I've gathered.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: dakarian on October 31, 2009, 04:38:31 pm
Yes, I can join in too:

Toony Tunnel: A term exclusive to here named after ToonyMan. 

Basically: you randomly vote for someone, but you stick to them, pushing and accusing them, never stopping until the person completely breaks.  Once broken, they will show as Town or Scum.


As for RVS, to me, it serves as a means of 'casual' communication.  You see, none of you realize it but you are silently dropping hints about the role that I just gave you.  Your posts will reflect these hints.  If I were to give you a different role, you would NOT write just as you all are now. 

It's easier to cover it when you are actively working by a script, looking over just what you will say, to who, and 'why'.  Items like the RVS are used to allow for some unscripted communication.  Without that script, a person will better show their true colors.

Think of RVS, and really all of Day 1, as attempting to pull people out of their shell and to make them 'break out of character'.  If you think you can do it without RVS then go ahead so long as you do it. 

Will it means you'll find scum Day 1?  Usually not.  However, once you break the mafia's shell they'll leave clues.  Those clues will be what you'll use to find them later on. 

Do NOT take Day 1 lightly.  The nightkill is truly only useful so long as you already have information from Day 1. 

In fact, I can claim this: if you as a town do not break down the mafia's 'act' (whether you know you've done it or not) this day, you will probably fail to find them in the following days.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: ToonyMan on October 31, 2009, 04:46:29 pm
Bleh, the only reason people call it Toony Tunny is because it's catchy.
Toony Tunnel.  Toony Tunnel.  Toony Tunnel.  Heh.
Anyway, I hope this game is of the good.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: webadict on October 31, 2009, 05:29:25 pm
Yes, he's right. Most people will differ when they are a Cop, a Doctor, a Mafioso, or a Townie. Perhaps others hide it better, but you do leave clues. These clues can differ from person to person, but you're all looking for them.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 31, 2009, 06:25:17 pm
We...actually have a Martyr Syndrome? Well.
SirBayer, that's not entirely correct. I know, because I've been called out for having that opinion.
Apostolic Nihilist,  why do you sound like Apostatic Nihilist?
Why are you a member of the MafiaHomeowner's Association?
Nice weather we're having, isn't it?

Town is totally gonna win.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: SirBayer on October 31, 2009, 06:48:29 pm
Panda, I have seen you use that strategy, so let's do that!

Forced-question! Anyone who doesn't answer is FoS'ed. Who would be your favorite scum partner?

My personal favorite would be Pandarsenic, and it's fairly simple to see why. He's a pretty darned good player, and so when he inevitably busses me, I don't feel like he did it retardedly! (This has actually happened - I played a few games on the IRC set-up and once he and I were scum. I was bussed, but we won in the end.) Also you frequently win.

Yeah.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 31, 2009, 06:53:34 pm
I'd have to go with Pandar, too. I mean, he's scum IC for a reason.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: tehstefan on October 31, 2009, 07:14:56 pm
For me, my ideal scum partner would be Webadict. I've seen what he can do, he's absolutely amazing. Of course, Pandarsenic is too, but I've not personally experienced how amazing he is at tearing a town apart at the seams.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Laetificus on October 31, 2009, 07:37:16 pm
Laetificus, what's your opinion on the current state of things? I'm curious to hear what you plan on doing this turn.

This RSV is unfolding as it should. (Though excuse my nub-appeal when I ask, what does FoS refer to?) The plan here is to critically analyze the personas that people adopt versus what role they actually achieve, hoping to find some sort of distortion, be it intentional or not, across the different roles. Eh, at least I think.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: SirBayer on October 31, 2009, 07:56:30 pm
FoS is Finger of Suspicion. Just picture a guy pointing at someone else with his finger. And roaring "I SUSPECT YOUUUUUUUUU" while standing with one leg on the table and your hair and trench coat waving behind you, with all the little action lines firing out of your body in oddly perpendicular directions.

That's the FoS.

Answer the question, Laetificus!
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Org on October 31, 2009, 08:29:57 pm
Org mind coming in here and talking to us?

And yes, RVS is very useful, if for no other reason than you can read people. If people seem to change how they work from the RVS to current, they are likely trying to hide something they let slip, or at least thats what I've gathered.
FAIL

I will not be on til late tommorrow. Tourney

So, tehstefan, who would your favorite scum buddies be and why?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 31, 2009, 08:38:09 pm
Org mind coming in here and talking to us?

And yes, RVS is very useful, if for no other reason than you can read people. If people seem to change how they work from the RVS to current, they are likely trying to hide something they let slip, or at least thats what I've gathered.
FAIL

I will not be on til late tommorrow. Tourney

So, tehstefan, who would your favorite scum buddies be and why?


*CoughOMGUScoughcough*
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: tehstefan on October 31, 2009, 08:51:24 pm
Quote
So, tehstefan, who would your favorite scum buddies be and why?

For me, my ideal scum partner would be Webadict. I've seen what he can do, he's absolutely amazing. Of course, Pandarsenic is too, but I've not personally experienced how amazing he is at tearing a town apart at the seams.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on October 31, 2009, 08:53:40 pm
Look at Toony's quote in Pandar's sig. Good enough?

Anyways, UNVOTE.

CobaltKobold, what role would you prefer to have the most (as town) and why?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Pandarsenic on October 31, 2009, 10:04:57 pm
SCUM-BRO IS ALWAYS SCUM-BRO.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 31, 2009, 10:43:23 pm
Forced-question! Anyone who doesn't answer is FoS'ed. Who would be your favorite scum partner?
Wouldn't it be better to limit answers to those from this game?

I think it'd be pandarsenic though, as I haven't got too good a bead on his tells yet, so I'm betting others wouldn't either.
CobaltKobold, what role would you prefer to have the most (as town) and why?
I'll give some bonus answers. As town, cop. Basically, investigative results are useful almost no matter where you point them, unlike a protect.

As a player, bus driver or mimic, because it's just too much fun to throw wrenches into works.

As mafia, probably rolecop- see answer for town cop. It'd tell who to go after or not as priority.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 31, 2009, 10:44:58 pm
*waits on answer from AN, guesses it's only been 4h*
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: dakarian on October 31, 2009, 10:53:07 pm
Quicknote:

The 'Unvote' rule will be enforced here.  If you wish to change your vote, I MUST see an Unvote in red.  Your vote will not change without that Unvote.

Current Vote Count:

CobaltKobold[1]:RedWarior0
RedWarrior0[1]:SirBayer
Laetificus[1]:Martyr Syndrome
Org[1]:tehstefan
Apostolic Nihilist[1]:CobaltKobold
tehstefan[1]:Org

Not Voting: Apostolic Nihilist, Laetificus, Vector

Deadline: Tuesday, 2nd, 11am EST
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: SirBayer on October 31, 2009, 11:27:40 pm
Forced-question! Anyone who doesn't answer is FoS'ed. Who would be your favorite scum partner?
Wouldn't it be better to limit answers to those from this game?

FINGER OF SUSPICION ON WILL SMITH

So yeah, gotta keep waiting for those answers. If I've got nothing on Laeitificius by... Monday, then I'm shifting my vote.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: webadict on November 01, 2009, 01:12:13 am
Org mind coming in here and talking to us?

And yes, RVS is very useful, if for no other reason than you can read people. If people seem to change how they work from the RVS to current, they are likely trying to hide something they let slip, or at least thats what I've gathered.
FAIL

I will not be on til late tommorrow. Tourney

So, tehstefan, who would your favorite scum buddies be and why?


*CoughOMGUScoughcough*
Basically, Org just pulled an OMGUS (Oh My God, U Suck), which is voting someone because you voted for them. Which is generally bad town play, because that's a terrible reason to vote for someone.

But, this is the RVS. It's not too big of a deal, and don't let someone push you guys into voting him first.

Passiveness is a scumtell.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 01, 2009, 11:04:46 am
Good enough answers. Unvote.

Vector, why am I the only person voting for you?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Laetificus on November 01, 2009, 11:23:57 am

FINGER OF SUSPICION ON WILL SMITH

So yeah, gotta keep waiting for those answers. If I've got nothing on Laeitificius by... Monday, then I'm shifting my vote.

Right, having an apparently experienced scum-buddy like Webadict or Pandarsenic would be pretty fun. Even someone like Vector looks like a good mafia thinker.

Oh, also, SirBayer, if you could create your own role in mafia, what would it be able to do?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: SirBayer on November 01, 2009, 04:32:31 pm
Actuallly, Laetificus, I have thought about that. There was a webadict run "Bring Your Own Role" mafia, and I had a thought on that - it comes with a funny story, which I will relate.

I was doing a class for a very realistic shuttle simulation, and my teacher is describing how not-difficult something is, and he declared that it wasn't "nuclear rocket surgery". So, my role would be "Nuclear Rocket Surgeon." You'd have three separate probably one-shot abilities, or perhaps two one-shot and one permanent. First of all, you'd certainly be a doctor. You're a surgeon, after all. But secondly, you'd be able to become ascetic AND non-nightkillable, by jumping in your rocket and flying into space for a turn. Finally, there's the Nuclear, which would be covered by the ability to one-shot irradiate one player a turn, like a Poisoner.

That is what my role could do, Laetificus. I'd vote for you as a kind of vengefulness, but I'm in no danger, so why bother?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 01, 2009, 04:53:11 pm
So, my role would be "Nuclear Rocket Surgeon."
That's...pretty catchy, actually.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: webadict on November 01, 2009, 06:45:59 pm

FINGER OF SUSPICION ON WILL SMITH

So yeah, gotta keep waiting for those answers. If I've got nothing on Laeitificius by... Monday, then I'm shifting my vote.

Right, having an apparently experienced scum-buddy like Webadict or Pandarsenic would be pretty fun. Even someone like Vector looks like a good mafia thinker.

Oh, also, SirBayer, if you could create your own role in mafia, what would it be able to do?
This question neither pertains to this mafia nor gives any viable information. This question is nonsensical.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Vector on November 01, 2009, 07:00:29 pm
Good enough answers. Unvote.

Vector, why am I the only person voting for you?

Because it's the RVS and I haven't said anything stupid yet.


As far as my favorite scumbuddy goes, I don't have anyone.  Outside of this game, Free Beer is good to play with as scum.  Inside the game, I'd probably go with CobaltKobold.  He seems to have figured out the social thinking for Mafia quite well, even if he's inexperienced.

Also:

Martyr Syndrome, why do you have to die for so many causes?
Laetificus, what's your opinion on the current state of things? I'm curious to hear what you plan on doing this turn.

Martyr Syndrome, is there a reason why you're dodging such a simple question?


Also, RedWarrior0, you should press your vote more.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 01, 2009, 07:40:21 pm
Well, thanks. :p I could say the same about you, Vector.
This question neither pertains to this mafia nor gives any viable information. This question is nonsensical.
Lex Luthor stole forty cakes. That's as many as four tens.

I'd disagree, Web. The answer may not have given viable information, but it certainly can. Just like most scum-hunting tactics, it's mainly slip-ups. Though it's perhaps less likely with "make up a role" than "what role do you want"- they might slip and say Godfather or some jazz.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Org on November 01, 2009, 08:59:54 pm
Man, my post didnt go in earlier. Unvote. It seems I missed something entirely.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: SirBayer on November 02, 2009, 12:02:25 am
So, my role would be "Nuclear Rocket Surgeon."
That's...pretty catchy, actually.
Isn't it? If I ever host a game, it WILL be a role.

Lex Luthor stole forty cakes. That's as many as four tens.

And that's just terrible.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Vector on November 02, 2009, 12:14:45 am
And, while I wait for Martyr Syndrome to get back:

SirBayer, who do you think is scum, and why?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: SirBayer on November 02, 2009, 01:01:39 am
Vector, I'm gonna play this straight. I have no idea here. I don't know many scumtells and I've barely played any games at all. My lack of experience leads me to not even have intuition, and I think it'll be much easier to guess who's scum once we've seen some roleclaiming. After that, we'll see what's going on.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Vector on November 02, 2009, 01:17:04 am
Vector, I'm gonna play this straight. I have no idea here. I don't know many scumtells and I've barely played any games at all. My lack of experience leads me to not even have intuition, and I think it'll be much easier to guess who's scum once we've seen some roleclaiming. After that, we'll see what's going on.

... This is a game with very few power roles.  I am really hoping you're talking about flipping upon death, because if we end up outing a cop just so the scum can claim vanilla townie with the rest of the town, we're going to have a much tougher job of it.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Martyr Syndrome on November 02, 2009, 09:34:25 am
This RSV is unfolding as it should. (Though excuse my nub-appeal when I ask, what does FoS refer to?) The plan here is to critically analyze the personas that people adopt versus what role they actually achieve, hoping to find some sort of distortion, be it intentional or not, across the different roles. Eh, at least I think.
Sounds about right to me. My vote goes unchanged, though. Nothing personal.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Vector on November 02, 2009, 09:53:30 am
...

Martyr Syndrome, why do you find Laetificus suspicious?  You yourself have stated that his story checks out.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 02, 2009, 03:45:39 pm
We...actually have a Martyr Syndrome? Well.
SirBayer, that's not entirely correct. I know, because I've been called out for having that opinion.
Apostolic Nihilist,  why do you sound like Apostatic Nihilist?
Why are you a member of the MafiaHomeowner's Association?
Nice weather we're having, isn't it?

Town is totally gonna win.
I don't see any relationship between the 'L' consonant sound and the 'T' consonant sound, but hey -- who knows?

I can't say that I'm a member of the MafiaHomeowner's Association either.

The weather here is quite wondrous, I'll admit to that. I've never been one for warm summer days, and the many auspicious autumn rains are always preferable.

My preferred scumbuddy wouldn't actually be webadict, or Pandarsenic for that matter. I'd be far too worried about screwing up their plans to actually do anything useful. I wouldn't mind being paired with a more inexperienced player, though. Laetificus seems like a decent choice.


Now, I pose a question to both Cobalt Kobold and tehstefan:
Who do you think would be the most dangerous scum players in this game?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 02, 2009, 04:05:33 pm
Who do you think would be the most dangerous scum players in this game?
I know you didn't ask me, but I'll give a generic answer: the ones you don't suspect
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Vector on November 02, 2009, 04:15:26 pm
RedWarrior0, care to actually ask people questions?  This is kind of ridiculous.  We've got the town sitting around waiting for the nightkill, doing nothing.  As Dakarian said, we've got to start unwrapping this stuff Day 1.

With that in mind, who do you suspect most, and why?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Martyr Syndrome on November 02, 2009, 05:01:10 pm
...

Martyr Syndrome, why do you find Laetificus suspicious?  You yourself have stated that his story checks out.
Why, because I'm mafia of course.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Org on November 02, 2009, 05:07:16 pm
...

Martyr Syndrome, why do you find Laetificus suspicious?  You yourself have stated that his story checks out.
Why, because I'm mafia of course.
...

Martyr Syndrome, why do you find Laetificus suspicious?  You yourself have stated that his story checks out.
Why, because I'm mafia of course.
...

Martyr Syndrome, why do you find Laetificus suspicious?  You yourself have stated that his story checks out.
Why, because I'm mafia of course.
...

Martyr Syndrome, why do you find Laetificus suspicious?  You yourself have stated that his story checks out.
Why, because I'm mafia of course.
...

Martyr Syndrome, why do you find Laetificus suspicious?  You yourself have stated that his story checks out.
Why, because I'm mafia of course.
...

Martyr Syndrome, why do you find Laetificus suspicious?  You yourself have stated that his story checks out.
Why, because I'm mafia of course.
...

Martyr Syndrome, why do you find Laetificus suspicious?  You yourself have stated that his story checks out.
Why, because I'm mafia of course.
...

Martyr Syndrome, why do you find Laetificus suspicious?  You yourself have stated that his story checks out.
Why, because I'm mafia of course.
...

Martyr Syndrome, why do you find Laetificus suspicious?  You yourself have stated that his story checks out.
Why, because I'm mafia of course.
..
...

Martyr Syndrome, why do you find Laetificus suspicious?  You yourself have stated that his story checks out.
Why, because I'm mafia of course.
..
...

Martyr Syndrome, why do you find Laetificus suspicious?  You yourself have stated that his story checks out.
Why, because I'm mafia of course.
...

Martyr Syndrome, why do you find Laetificus suspicious?  You yourself have stated that his story checks out.
Why, because I'm mafia of course.
[/quot
...

Martyr Syndrome, why do you find Laetificus suspicious?  You yourself have stated that his story checks out.
Why, because I'm mafia of course.
...

Martyr Syndrome, why do you find Laetificus suspicious?  You yourself have stated that his story checks out.
Why, because I'm mafia of course.
...

Martyr Syndrome, why do you find Laetificus suspicious?  You yourself have stated that his story checks out.
Why, because I'm mafia of course.
...

Martyr Syndrome, why do you find Laetificus suspicious?  You yourself have stated that his story checks out.
Why, because I'm mafia of course.
...

Martyr Syndrome, why do you find Laetificus suspicious?  You yourself have stated that his story checks out.
Why, because I'm mafia of course.
....What?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Martyr Syndrome on November 02, 2009, 05:10:09 pm
;)
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Vector on November 02, 2009, 05:44:20 pm
Would you mind cutting the crap, playing the game, and actually being helpful... Mr. Scumbucket?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 02, 2009, 05:54:57 pm
RedWarrior0, care to actually ask people questions?  This is kind of ridiculous.  We've got the town sitting around waiting for the nightkill, doing nothing.  As Dakarian said, we've got to start unwrapping this stuff Day 1.

With that in mind, who do you suspect most, and why?
Well, Martyr Syndrome just practically asked to be lynched. Org was just very... spammy in rubbing it in, but I suppose he could be unhelpful townie (probable). Martyr, why did you just ask to be lynched?

@mod: Can we have Org just break the Great Rule to make his post less page-extending?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 02, 2009, 06:00:52 pm
 unvote Talking to Martyr Syndrome there Vector?

Martyr Syndrome: Why do you claim to be mafia?

Org has a point. Town has no reason to claim to be mafia (jester excepted). Mafia has no immediate reason to claim mafia, but claiming mafia will confuse the town, furthering their goals.
Laetificus seems like a decent choice.
Why?


Now, I pose a question to both Cobalt Kobold and tehstefan:
Who do you think would be the most dangerous scum players in this game?
Org is infamous for lying low. Doing it more generally will not cause remark, but he's likely to get lynched for it.
SirBayer seems like he'd be good at buddying.
Vector can act very analytically but I feel uncertain about the likelihood of him acting with verisimilitude.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 02, 2009, 06:04:57 pm
Town has no reason to claim to be mafia (jester excepted).
Except that jester is a) third party and b) not in this.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 02, 2009, 06:05:19 pm
Laetificus seems like a decent choice.
Why?
Well, simply because he seems to be somewhat experienced and furthermore is new to the forums.
People who use meta a lot would have a more difficult time analyzing him.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 02, 2009, 06:10:13 pm
Yeah, jester isn't in this. I thought they were pulled from Town ranks though, and was including it for completeness. On a third note, Martyr Syndrome sounds like he ought to be a jester.

Though there is a godfather in this game, Pandarsenic. :P

Web, would you care to weigh in on the wine MostlyScum has placed in front of us?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 02, 2009, 06:10:58 pm
Why aren't more people asking their ICs questions, I wonder?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 02, 2009, 06:13:07 pm
Unvote. I sense a slip-up:
Why aren't more people asking their ICs questions, I wonder?
I was thinking, town only has one IC, not 2. CobaltKobold, why the hell did you just use ICs in the plural if town has exactly one?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Vector on November 02, 2009, 06:24:17 pm
As far as MS goes, what I'm seeing right now is either

1. Moronic/unseasoned town
2. Scum of some flavor

At the moment I'm leaning towards scum, since I'd expect a townie to change his behavior... or staunchly defend it, or do something.  Town does not (or, at the very least, should not) spew WIFOM.

So, Martyr Syndrome.  Given that you seem to have been ignoring my last couple of questions, I suppose I'll ask another one: why do you persist in your behavior, even though you are up for a lynching?



Also: Damn.  Good catch.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 02, 2009, 06:30:38 pm
Listen, Org. I understand your usual behaviour is simply, 'wait around in the background', but as it stands this round already seems to be a bit inactive. More lurkers is not something we need right now. What do you think of Martyr Syndrome's scum claim, specifically?
Scum? WIFOM-spreading Town?
What of Cobalt Kobold's recent 'slip-up'?

We need discussion going in order to find scum, so why don't you start talking to us?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 02, 2009, 06:37:29 pm
Unvote. I sense a slip-up:
Why aren't more people asking their ICs questions, I wonder?
I was thinking, town only has one IC, not 2. CobaltKobold, why the hell did you just use ICs in the plural if town has exactly one?
Mainly because I was trying to be inclusive. Let me point out an alternate scenario:
CobaltKobold: "Why are the town not asking their IC questions?" or, since you might leap on the third person plural pronoun, "Why are the town not asking our IC questions?"
Response: "How do you know the mafia are asking their IC questions? Why did you use the singular if there are two ICs?"

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 02, 2009, 06:39:52 pm
But why did you believe the scum weren't asking their IC?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 02, 2009, 06:59:15 pm
Purely grammatical inclusion, I assure you. I didn't mean to assign meaning to extrapolating from a mostly-unrelated point (is the town asking its IC for help with stuff.)
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: dakarian on November 02, 2009, 07:00:29 pm
There's a movie, very popular among Fantasy folks, called The Princess Bride.

The story doesn't matter (hero rescuing a princess... big fights.. Andre the Giant.. so on), the following scene does.

The hero, at one point, met with one of the villans who thought of himself as extremely smart.  As such, the hero challenged him to a match.

Two wine glasses were placed, one in front of the hero, one in front of the villan.  Both filled with the same wine.  The hero tells the villan that one of the wines is poisoned by the hero.  The villan's job is to choose one of the wines to drink (with the hero drinking the other wine).  Whoever lives, wins.

The villain then went thusly:
All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's?

Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.

But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.


Because iocane comes from Australia, as everyone knows, and Australia is entirely peopled with criminals, and criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.

And you must have suspected I would have known the powder's origin, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.


..and so on.

The problem is that the villain is trying to guess what the hero is doing.  Every time he thought of a reasoning that the hero would use, "That's what you WANT me to think!" would show up and it would make sense for the hero to reverse it.  The villain is now stuck and unable to choose.

This, in mafia, is called Wine In Front Of Me, or WIFOM.  Whenever a person acts in a way that causes you to have to guess their intentions you risk getting stuck in the same reasoning:

Person 1"Dakarian says that the mafia typically are lurkers and that he is active so he's town"

Person 2"But that's what he WANTS us to think.. oh no, Dakarian is scum trying to look like town"

Person 3"But that's what he WANTS us to think..Dakarian is town"

But...

WIFOM is one of the most powerful weapons the scum have, more powerful than the Nightkill.  A town full of WIFOM is a truly dead town.  Note that it's VERY easy for both town and scum to start WIFOM.  However, whether it's from town or scum, it's never safe for the town to delve into it.  The town needs to use logical reasoning that comes to firm conclusions and investigations to find more information that will lead to the needed reasoning. 

Whenever you find yourself able to fit in "That's what they want me to think" into your reasoning without messing things up then you are drinking WIFOM... stop NOW.


Btw, the answer to the Hero's puzzle?  Both wines were poisoned.  The hero was immune.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: ToonyMan on November 02, 2009, 07:03:27 pm
The Princess Bride is a really good story.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 02, 2009, 07:08:47 pm
And it is so delightful to watch people flounder in it, at least it would be if I were Mafia. Why do I not get to be mafia.
Why are you a member of the MafiaHomeowner's Association?
Nice weather we're having, isn't it?
I can't say that I'm a member of the MafiaHomeowner's Association either.
This seems to me to be a similar, but more egregious slip-up. It seems to me in many cases(not just mafia) that, when faced with an accusation, a guilty party will say "you cannot prove that" more often whereas an innocent is more likely to say "No, I did/am not."

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 02, 2009, 07:09:25 pm
You're not webadict...
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 02, 2009, 07:25:23 pm
Protip, since I help the town a bit too:

WIFOM can and will fuck your shit up as town, all the damn way. It is the single most powerful weapon of the Scum. Once you doubt your own ability (as town) to reach independent conclusions, scum can control you. If you doubt yourself, they may encourage you; if you're confident but going at a townie, they may hold you back. You begin to be unable to see what is and isn't useful. You waste energy picking apart the WIFOM and miss obvious things.

Look at NSBM or Beginner Mafia 3. I was scum in both. Observe the bullshit I was able to pull.

I'm going to let you in on a secret scum secret. Of secretness.

Fake-edit: Wait a minute, I'm posting this to scumchat.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 02, 2009, 07:40:54 pm
Would you mind cutting the crap, playing the game, and actually being helpful... Mr. Scumbucket?
unvote Talking to Martyr Syndrome there Vector?

So, Martyr Syndrome.  Given that you seem to have been ignoring my last couple of questions, I suppose I'll ask another one: why do you persist in your behavior, even though you are up for a lynching?



Also: Damn.  Good catch.
Furthermore in this post Vector is accusing someone of ignoring his questions...while ignoring my question.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Vector on November 02, 2009, 07:44:35 pm
.... That was a question?

Sorry, I thought it was obvious.  Yes, I was talking to Martyr Syndrome.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: dakarian on November 02, 2009, 07:47:18 pm
You're not webadict...

I'm the host who's presence keeps this game running in the first place.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 02, 2009, 07:52:34 pm
I was joking ;p
Votecount, bitte?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: tehstefan on November 02, 2009, 07:53:29 pm
Hey, Org, may I ask you a serious question here?

What kind of reads are you getting of people, if any, and why do you feel that way?

That goes for you too Mayter Syndrome, I feel that hearing some thoughts from you would be good.

Right now, I'll tell my own thoughts on people.

Both ColbaltKobold and Vector seem to be doing a pretty good job of asking hard questions, and pressing them, so they strike me as town. Colbalt does have a strike against him for the slip up, however, which does warrant more attention. Vectors leaning town for me, while Cobalt is, but not quite as much anymore.

Redwarrior gets points for catching the slip up, which is rather good, but I haven't heard enough from him to form a solid opinion. Right now, he's leaning mildly town.

Org is rather quiet, but that seems to be his style. I'm leaning null on him, but only for now. I don't like how quiet he's being.

Laetificus falls under this as well, he's not said much at all, but has answered questions at least, so null him.



As for the question, I feel Vector could be a danger, He seems like the type that could fool quite a few people if he wanted. Org could be dangerous, just laying back and avoiding any attention. Those are two of my prime picks for most dangerous scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: dakarian on November 02, 2009, 08:21:47 pm
Current Vote Count:

RedWarrior0[1]:SirBayer
Laetificus[1]:Martyr Syndrome
Org[2]:tehstefan, Apostolic Nihilist
SirBayer[1]:Laetificus
Martyr Syndrome[2]: Vector, CobaltKobold
CobaltKobold[1]: RedWarior0

Not Voting:Org

Deadline: Tuesday, 2nd, 11am EST

Requests to extend will be accepted at this time.  3 requests with no objections will be required to extend a full day.  Custom extensions can be made as well with varying requirements.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 02, 2009, 08:36:29 pm
And it is so delightful to watch people flounder in it, at least it would be if I were Mafia. Why do I not get to be mafia.
Why are you a member of the MafiaHomeowner's Association?
Nice weather we're having, isn't it?
I can't say that I'm a member of the MafiaHomeowner's Association either.
This seems to me to be a similar, but more egregious slip-up. It seems to me in many cases(not just mafia) that, when faced with an accusation, a guilty party will say "you cannot prove that" more often whereas an innocent is more likely to say "No, I did/am not."

Twisting words is something scum does. Seems to me as if you're trying to deflect the suspicion that's built up around you, off to me.
There's a difference between mine and your statements, however. You suggest that neither town nor scum are asking their ICs questions -- how could you possibly know this unless you were scum? Of course, you did clear this up a few posts later though, so it's mostly a moot point.
My original sentence wasn't at all grammatically ambiguous, unlike yours. While my claim consisted of a soft negative, yours belied knowledge you shouldn't have.


I'd love to hear an answer from Org sometime soon, but since tehstefan seems to be a bit more active:
What do you think of Martyr Syndrome's... claim?

I suppose it isn't fair to ask questions without providing some answers, though.

I think Martyr is exceptionally bold scum. He's tossing around WIFOM and confusing us all, and furthermore he's taking a refuge in audacity. "No scum would possibly do that!"
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Laetificus on November 02, 2009, 09:21:36 pm
This RSV is unfolding as it should. (Though excuse my nub-appeal when I ask, what does FoS refer to?) The plan here is to critically analyze the personas that people adopt versus what role they actually achieve, hoping to find some sort of distortion, be it intentional or not, across the different roles. Eh, at least I think.
Sounds about right to me. My vote goes unchanged, though. Nothing personal.

Aye, I guess we'll have to see that tehstefan's answer, but Martyr Syndrome is being unbelievably conniving. Initially voting for a rather anonymous character, and almost dodging the question here, by not providing anything contributive, in fact, only copying what I said.

Oh, also, the whole blatantly obvious "I'm mafia" thing is either an unsuccessful attempt of humor, an attempt to derail the actual town train of thought, or a strange choice of WIFOM. I mean, either he's mafia, at which point this WIFOM completely lost it's purpose, or he's town, where the mafia will likely keep him alive, if only to hinder the rest of the town's ability to think straight. Either way, he's sounding like a liability.

Unvote. Martyr Syndrome.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: webadict on November 02, 2009, 09:23:06 pm
This RSV is unfolding as it should. (Though excuse my nub-appeal when I ask, what does FoS refer to?) The plan here is to critically analyze the personas that people adopt versus what role they actually achieve, hoping to find some sort of distortion, be it intentional or not, across the different roles. Eh, at least I think.
Sounds about right to me. My vote goes unchanged, though. Nothing personal.

Aye, I guess we'll have to see that tehstefan's answer, but Martyr Syndrome is being unbelievably conniving. Initially voting for a rather anonymous character, and almost dodging the question here, by not providing anything contributive, in fact, only copying what I said.

Oh, also, the whole blatantly obvious "I'm mafia" thing is either an unsuccessful attempt of humor, an attempt to derail the actual town train of thought, or a strange choice of WIFOM. I mean, either he's mafia, at which point this WIFOM completely lost it's purpose, or he's town, where the mafia will likely keep him alive, if only to hinder the rest of the town's ability to think straight. Either way, he's sounding like a liability.

Unvote. Martyr Syndrome.
The joke of saying "I'm mafia" has a higher chance of coming from mafia than anyone else. I remember a Paranormal game where Alexhans said he was a Dopp. And he was!
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Vector on November 02, 2009, 10:56:47 pm
Blargh.  Extension.  We can't lynch with so few votes, and a no-lynch on the first day would be kind of sad.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 02, 2009, 11:43:10 pm
uh, all but Org are voting, vector. What're you talking about?
though org could oddly save MS with a selfvote
MS:3 Org:2 RW,CK,Laet:1 apiece
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 02, 2009, 11:48:43 pm
I don't see any need for an extension. Unvote.
Martyr Syndrome is as scummy as they come.
Town has no valid reason whatsoever for spreading WIFOM.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Vector on November 02, 2009, 11:50:48 pm
uh, all but Org are voting, vector. What're you talking about?
though org could oddly save MS with a selfvote
MS:3 Org:2 RW,CK,Laet:1 apiece

Ah, I mean "there's not enough votes on any one person to lynch, and I don't want to end the day with a no-lynch."
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 03, 2009, 12:01:21 am
1. game has no hammers
2. lynch still operates on plurality rather than majority req. here-
Upon deadline, the player with the most votes will be lynched.  If there is a tie, there will be no lynch.

Oh, and now it's 4,1,1,1,1.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Vector on November 03, 2009, 12:05:58 am
Damn, I didn't check that.  Never mind, then.  I really need to get better about examining the rules.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: tehstefan on November 03, 2009, 12:40:57 am
Hmm. Yeah, I must say, I find it scummy enough to lynch at the moment. Not only is it a foolish day one claim, this is a newbie game, so it could be a newb scum trying to figure out what to do. Besides, we shouldn't allow anyone to WIFOM the town.

Still, I'd like to hear from Martyer syndrome before I hammer him. I wouldn't feel right casting the hammer without him saying something, anything to defend himself.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: dakarian on November 03, 2009, 08:27:12 am
Current Vote Count:

RedWarrior0[1]:SirBayer
Laetificus[1]:Martyr Syndrome
Org[1]:tehstefan
Martyr Syndrome[4]: Vector, CobaltKobold, Laetificus, Apostolic Nihilist
CobaltKobold[1]: RedWarior0

Not Voting:Org

Note: Be sure to read the rules on the first page.  This game works by pure deadline, not hammer.  I DO accept requests to shorten or end day, though, once 50% of the players vote for the same person.

Deadline: Tuesday, 2nd, 11am EST

There are less then 3 hours left until the end of the day.

Objections to day extension heard: there will be no extensions.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Rooster on November 03, 2009, 08:37:49 am
Damn. I missed my chance.
Played only in one mafia ever. Second round of DF mafia.
Crazy stuff. Fobos told everyone he was elf which created complete chaos, and I died shortly thereafter. I suck at mafias. So feel free to PM when the next one will start

Or I misread and the game actually goes on while waiting for new people. Dunno which one.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: dakarian on November 03, 2009, 09:08:27 am
Sorry, but you read right.  The game has begun and signups are closed.

However, I can put you in as a Sub.  If anyone needs replacing, you'd be able to step in.


Also, I think I might go ahead and open signups to BM5 early since the game is few new folks so it won't harm the other games.  If so, it would be for those who aren't in this game.

If I do, you could request to Sub here and sign up for that one.  Whichever one opens for you first would be the one you end up in. 
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Rooster on November 03, 2009, 09:39:41 am
Oh, okay already signed in on that one.
But I'll definitelly observe this one
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Org on November 03, 2009, 10:21:43 am
Gentlemen.

Okay, sorry bout that. Af6ter reading back, and noticing that Martyr Syndrome has a death wish, it seems that he either has some scummy plan or doesnt want to play. Hmmm.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Night 1 Lie in the snow.
Post by: dakarian on November 03, 2009, 12:58:58 pm

Dakarian glanced at a sheet of paper, one of several, with the names of various people.  It's clear that the survivors were already quite mad and deadly.  Every list he found looked like this:

----
RedWarrior0[1]:SirBayer
Laetificus[1]:Martyr Syndrome
Org[1]:tehstefan
Martyr Syndrome[5]: Vector, CobaltKobold, Laetificus, Apostolic Nihilist, Org
CobaltKobold[1]: RedWarrior0

---

The person who had the largest number turned out to be one of the ones they had found dead outside the cabin, killed by the cold.  It seems they got rid of some of the own by simply throwing them outside to freeze to death. 

Madness.

This sheet, along with the autopsy report, showed that this was the first voting, and happened the day they found out that they were trapped.  Some writing below the 'count' seems to explain things.

"one of the mafia!  actually told us.  Trying to kill us all!"


Dakarian frowned at that.  The report on the casualties is already in.  Martyr Syndrome has a rather kooky past but all this 'mafia' talk doesn't make any sense.

Or perhaps... it does explain what seems to have happened next, on the following night.


Martyr Syndrome, Townie, has been lynched.

It is now night.  Those with night roles, send me your choices.  The rest, good night.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 eye of the storm
Post by: dakarian on November 03, 2009, 11:53:14 pm

Dakarian took note of various samples and sent them for testing.  When they came back, he discovered what had happened.  It's a bit of a jumble, since some of the vacationers didn't sleep much, but he's sure by a little after midnight, everyone was asleep.

Eventually, the vacationers woke up, ate, then went right back to living room. At first, he complained to Research why they only found signs of 8 people in the room, but he realized that one of them had been shoved out of the snow by then and never returned. 

The rest of the 8, however, made it to the living room that day....


The night ended peacefully.  No one has died.

Survivors:
Org
Apostolic Nihilist
tehstefan
CobaltKobold
SirBayer
Laetificus
Vector
RedWarrior0

Deadline: Friday, 6th 11am EST
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: Vector on November 04, 2009, 03:11:28 pm
This is sad, dudes.  This is very, very sad.

SirBayer, care to play now that you've got your night information?  Or are you going to just sit around and lurk your face off?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 04, 2009, 03:20:43 pm
I think he expected a night kill. Why the hell, though, did MS claim scum? It's too late, though.

CobaltKobold, why do you think nobody died last night?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: tehstefan on November 04, 2009, 03:51:58 pm
Org I have a bad feeling about you. How about answering my questions from yesterday?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 04, 2009, 04:35:54 pm
CobaltKobold, why do you think nobody died last night?
Well, the apparent lack of deadline, and the timing of dakarian's post, seem to indicate that the night roles/mafia made decisions rather than any timing out.

Now, a town not killed is basically a half day lost for mafia. They get the chance to break even if we are manipulated to mislynch.

But really? I think it's experimental play by new players. "Hmm. Let's not kill and see how they react."
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 04, 2009, 05:54:51 pm
So you don't think a doctor got lucky? Interesting. I think I'll keep my vote on you because I have this feeling you're scum.

Also, dak, I'll be gone over the weekend, Friday afternoon to Sunday evening EST. Just letting you know.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 04, 2009, 06:03:20 pm
I don't know if there's a doctor at all.

Lessee...I answer your question and you "feel I'm scum" without pointing out anything, so leave the vote on me.

By asking that question, you DO seem to think a doctor got lucky. Which would imply that you knew that the mafia were trying to kill last night. (This could be reinforced by the wording of his initial "why do you think nobody died last night", but I don't think it's enough on its own for anything)

redwarrior0 you are being quite scummy to my eyes.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: webadict on November 04, 2009, 06:06:40 pm
I don't know if there's a doctor at all.

Lessee...I answer your question and you "feel I'm scum" without pointing out anything, so leave the vote on me.

By asking that question, you DO seem to think a doctor got lucky. Which would imply that you knew that the mafia were trying to kill last night. (This could be reinforced by the wording of his initial "why do you think nobody died last night", but I don't think it's enough on its own for anything)

redwarrior0 you are being quite scummy to my eyes.
This would be an unjustified OMGUS. You're basically voting him because he voted you. He was expecting an answer, and he wasn't satisifed with it.

Good job RedWarrior0.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: SirBayer on November 04, 2009, 06:25:17 pm
I don't see any need for an extension. Unvote.
Martyr Syndrome is as scummy as they come.
Town has no valid reason whatsoever for spreading WIFOM.

'Scuse me, but am I the only one picking up some bandwagoning here?

Apostolic Nihilist, what say you to that?

Also, Vector - my apologies on missing out on a little bit of time. Real Life interfered.

I am a little disappointed by the lack-of-night-kill. It would be nice if we could find out if we've got a specialist, and if so, what variety, but a role-claim seems useless at this point, really.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 04, 2009, 06:27:33 pm
Wait. I can find exactly two differences (barring grammar, target, etc.) between these two quotes:
I think I'll keep my vote on you because I have this feeling you're scum.
redwarrior0 you are being quite scummy to my eyes.

One: As web pointed out, I voted him first.
Two: He backed his up with a partially hole-riddled claim

To explain, I viewed "doctor gets lucky" as the most obvious answer. He might've, too, and not said it because he obviously views the belief of that possibility as scummy. So, what if the doctor suggests, "doctor got lucky."

Which would imply that you knew that the mafia were trying to kill last night.
Oh no! This powerful argument makes me shake in my boots! Of course, anybody who knows that the mafia is going to kill MUST be scum! I must be, too, then!

Note: The above statement is a fine example of the literary device known as sarcasm, more formally as verbal irony.

Without sarcasm: Any half-decent scumteam would probably see the point in attempting a night kill. And any IC would probably try to dissuade them from that.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 04, 2009, 06:34:18 pm
Pardon? "Praising the Doctor/(insert role here)" is a scumtell*. He appears to be doing that. That is my justification. I'm sticking to it.

A scum would back off when being accused of an OMGUS. I hear it's pretty worthless as a tell ANYWAY-
OMGUS = Old, broken tell.  It hasn't caught scum in ages and scum around here are very likely to attack a town with poor excuses.

[...]
I agree: OMGUS on its own isn't a good tell at all. What is a good tell is getting very worked up over people voting you, and the OMGUS is just a topping on all of that. Hence "Add OMGUSing to your list of offenses", not "You OMGUSed, you must be scum!".

Then again, "wait for information" provided by SirBayer is also a scumtell*. But RedWarrior0 is where I have my sights at the moment.

*as determined by supposed mafia experts, not myself

pre-post: If the doctor's saying "doctor got lucky" then you press them on it, they claim, and you get off 'em. Softclaiming doctor then?

If I were scum then yes I would have been for a nightkill. Seriously, it's lose-or-breakeven not to kill N1 for mafia.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 04, 2009, 06:34:48 pm
But RedWarrior0 is where I have my sights at the moment.
That shouldn't be stricken through.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 04, 2009, 06:47:36 pm
Pardon? "Praising the Doctor/(insert role here)" is a scumtell*. He appears to be doing that. That is my justification. I'm sticking to it.

-snip-
pre-post: If the doctor's saying "doctor got lucky" then you press them on it, they claim, and you get off 'em. Softclaiming doctor then?
Part number 1: I am saying that it's the most logical. A beginner team would probably not skip a nightkill, and a competent IC like Pandar would probably try and stop them if they wanted to. That's the only reason you gave, and it's either that or the 1/7 chance of doctor guessing right, as there are no town roleblockers.

Part 2: There are problems with that reasoning. First, the town doesn't have much reason to believe a doctor claim. They might NL, but then the other problem shows up. If the claimed doctor is town-aligned, then the mafia will probably see him/her as a threat and kill him/her. Also, you seem to be asking if I'm softclaiming doctor: what benefit does it give to you?

Gnight.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 04, 2009, 06:52:15 pm
you seem to be asking if I'm softclaiming doctor: what benefit does it give to you?

Gnight.
None. You claiming doctor would have a detrimental effect as, s you say, the mafia would then target you. So don't tell me/the town/the mafia.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: Org on November 04, 2009, 06:53:15 pm
Org I have a bad feeling about you. How about answering my questions from yesterday?
Where is this?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: dakarian on November 04, 2009, 06:59:28 pm
Also, dak, I'll be gone over the weekend, Friday afternoon to Sunday evening EST. Just letting you know.

Noted.  I don't take account of activity during the weekends anyway (a reason why no deadline hits the weekend) so no worries.

Current Vote Count:
SirBayer[1]: Vector
CobaltKobold[1]: RedWarrior0
Org[1]: Tehstefan
RedWarrior0[1]: CobaltKobold
Apostolic Nihilist[1]: SirBayer

Note Voting: Org, Apostolic Nihilist, Laetificus

Deadline: Friday, 6th 11am EST
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 04, 2009, 07:02:38 pm
I think I'd laugh/cry if it turned out to be me that the (alleged) doctor protected.
why is my boyfriend being such a ditz...

Also, there's actually some small value in a doctor claiming who they protected, as it might point to a townie. But it's less than the loss of the doctor that inevitably would follow, as the mafia might not kill and you're only slightly closer to finding any.

so web, what would you do to get out of this situation, since you're my IC supposedly? yes dakarian I'd be fine with you answering too. (Or e'en pandarsenic, as basically the only viable scum way of getting out is the town way- anything else just points to scumhood)

Your tenacity and use of logic are suggesting to me that you're town, redwarrior0. Annoying town, but town.  unvote

I'd vote for SirBayer if he hadn't shown up.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 04, 2009, 07:10:54 pm
I don't see any need for an extension. Unvote.
Martyr Syndrome is as scummy as they come.
Town has no valid reason whatsoever for spreading WIFOM.

'Scuse me, but am I the only one picking up some bandwagoning here?

Apostolic Nihilist, what say you to that?

Also, Vector - my apologies on missing out on a little bit of time. Real Life interfered.

I am a little disappointed by the lack-of-night-kill. It would be nice if we could find out if we've got a specialist, and if so, what variety, but a role-claim seems useless at this point, really.
I wouldn't call it bandwagoning, per se. Martyr Syndrome claimed scum and so I voted for him, it's as simple as that. I was completely justified in voting for him. Mostly I wanted to make sure he couldn't pop in and vote Org to tie up the votes, though.

Laetificus, do you have any insight you'd like to share? Do you suppose we had a lucky doctor or novice scum?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: tehstefan on November 04, 2009, 08:07:36 pm
On page eleven Org, I asked you both you and leafieus what reads you had on people. So, I would appreciate you answering that. Especially with your vote yesterday, which I still don't like at all.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: SirBayer on November 04, 2009, 08:08:32 pm
I don't see any need for an extension. Unvote.
Martyr Syndrome is as scummy as they come.
Town has no valid reason whatsoever for spreading WIFOM.

'Scuse me, but am I the only one picking up some bandwagoning here?

Apostolic Nihilist, what say you to that?

Also, Vector - my apologies on missing out on a little bit of time. Real Life interfered.

I am a little disappointed by the lack-of-night-kill. It would be nice if we could find out if we've got a specialist, and if so, what variety, but a role-claim seems useless at this point, really.
I wouldn't call it bandwagoning, per se. Martyr Syndrome claimed scum and so I voted for him, it's as simple as that. I was completely justified in voting for him. Mostly I wanted to make sure he couldn't pop in and vote Org to tie up the votes, though.

Laetificus, do you have any insight you'd like to share? Do you suppose we had a lucky doctor or novice scum?
Okay, yeah, but you waited until it was clear he wasn't winning this time around.

And I suppose that means I should point an FoS at Org, who also appears to have bandwagoned... maybe.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: webadict on November 04, 2009, 09:13:40 pm
I think I'd laugh/cry if it turned out to be me that the (alleged) doctor protected.
why is my boyfriend being such a ditz...

Also, there's actually some small value in a doctor claiming who they protected, as it might point to a townie. But it's less than the loss of the doctor that inevitably would follow, as the mafia might not kill and you're only slightly closer to finding any.

so web, what would you do to get out of this situation, since you're my IC supposedly? yes dakarian I'd be fine with you answering too. (Or e'en pandarsenic, as basically the only viable scum way of getting out is the town way- anything else just points to scumhood)

Your tenacity and use of logic are suggesting to me that you're town, redwarrior0. Annoying town, but town.  unvote

I'd vote for SirBayer if he hadn't shown up.
One, the doctor shouldn't claim. That'll only lead to the doctor claiming, and, in case of some devilish plot, might lead to scum being "confirmed."

Two, to get out of this situation, you need to stop overreacting. That's your problem. Overreaction is a scumtell, especially for newbies. While OMGUS is generally a null tell on mafia, newbie mafia tend to OMGUS. So, instead of freaking out, start thinking logically.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: Laetificus on November 04, 2009, 09:15:07 pm
On page eleven Org, I asked you both you and leafieus what reads you had on people. So, I would appreciate you answering that. Especially with your vote yesterday, which I still don't like at all.

Very well. Actually I looked back on page 11 and found no reference to my name being called except for...

Laetificus falls under this as well, he's not said much at all, but has answered questions at least, so null him.


Having a change of heart? Regardless, I'll give you some reads.

CobaltKobold and SirBayer rest on a fairly level plain for me. They're active players, and generally act as the eyes when events happen. Moreover, they're on less of the aggressive side, though are doing the best they can to get things going. If these guys were scum, it would be one of toughest facades (at least in the confines of this game) to keep up.

Vector and RedWarrior0 strike me as challengers. The kind of high-aggression, high-suspicion players that mafia needs. Suspicions over whether this is simply how they play, or if this is a persona adopted for scum purposes, and indeed, it'd be easy to pull while under the influence of NK abilities. I throw more suspicion at these guys, but remember to keep watching elsewhere.

Apostolic Nihilist is being more calm than I remember he should be, but I guess he hasn't found a big enough FoS to throw at any one person yet. He's a little on the quiet side recently, though occasionally comes in to toss around the current subject of concern a little more, so I'm not too sure what to pull of his current play-style.

Org, is uh... well, I can't pull any reads aside from "lurker".

tehstefan, though, seems to be pulling a lot from requests he posed from previous posts, especially from people he knows aren't extremely active. Also, care to elaborate on what you found so suspicious about the votes cast yesterday?

Also...
Laetificus, do you have any insight you'd like to share? Do you suppose we had a lucky doctor or novice scum?

The doctor would've had a 1 in 7 chance, which, though unlikely, isn't that much of a stretch. Novice scum might have been the reason, or a previously suspicious or time-pressed scum. Someone who would get some finger-points if they killed any threats, or at least they thought they would. Er, actually, that would probably fall under novice scum as well.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 04, 2009, 11:17:52 pm
Two, to get out of this situation, you need to stop overreacting. That's your problem. Overreaction is a scumtell, especially for newbies. While OMGUS is generally a null tell on mafia, newbie mafia tend to OMGUS. So, instead of freaking out, start thinking logically.
Right...there's only one vote on me. No need to panic.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: tehstefan on November 05, 2009, 12:16:24 am
I was mainly addressing org in that post, laetifius, no change on your null tell as of yet. I merely asked you, to get you involved. As for what was so suspicious about org's vote?

He gave no real additional info, just saying "Oh, he must have a death wish." and hammered him. Sure it wouldn't have made much different, but why pop in for that short vote? That seems to me an awful lot like active lurking, which is a scumtell. Right now its not too bad, but I want to see if he continues, or picks up activity.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: SirBayer on November 05, 2009, 01:21:34 am
why do I keep posting at night

Annnyway, I don't see any of this as directly pertinent to me, so I'm just going to observe and wait for tells.

Oh, and Laetificius, don't forget that scum can, instead of offing direct threats, just kind of move suspicion off of them by pegging random people. Just because he didn't kill doesn't mean he's worried.

I'm not sure if that's helpful. I'm too tired to be sure. If it's not, pretend like I didn't say it.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: dakarian on November 05, 2009, 09:12:56 pm
Current Vote Count:
SirBayer[1]: Vector
CobaltKobold[1]: RedWarrior0
Org[1]: Tehstefan
Laetificus:[1]Apostolic Nihilist
Apostolic Nihilist[1]: SirBayer
Tehstefan[1]: Laetificus

Note Voting: Org, CobaltKobold

Deadline: Friday, 6th 11am EST

1. A tie will result in a nolynch

2. Extensions may be requested.  4 requests will be requied to extend the deadline to Monday.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 05, 2009, 09:44:17 pm
Day extend. I wanna be here when this finishes. Nothing new to add at the moment, though I still think CK is scum.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: tehstefan on November 05, 2009, 10:15:25 pm
Day extend
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 05, 2009, 10:27:36 pm
day extend We need it so we don't lose time on the mafia.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: Vector on November 05, 2009, 10:28:01 pm
Extension.  Let's hash this thing out and find us some scum, dudes.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 05, 2009, 10:38:25 pm
Extension.  Let's hash this thing out and find us some scum, dudes.
Extension.  Let's hash this thing out and find us some scum, dudes.
The town-vector I know is not so nonchalant and casual. Why so not-serious, scum-vector? don't you want to find scum?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 05, 2009, 10:39:07 pm
There are not supposed to be two quotes. It was lagging. These are not the mistakes you're looking for. *hand motion*
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: dakarian on November 05, 2009, 10:45:34 pm
Impressive.  Very well

4 Request heard.

Deadline: Monday, 11am EST
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: Vector on November 05, 2009, 10:53:32 pm
Extension.  Let's hash this thing out and find us some scum, dudes.
Extension.  Let's hash this thing out and find us some scum, dudes.
The town-vector I know is not so nonchalant and casual. Why so not-serious, scum-vector? don't you want to find scum?

Of course I want to find scum.  Otherwise, I wouldn't have voted for an extension.

To address your misconception that town-Vector is always tense, I'm usually tense due to too much insanity IRL.  Now that I'm less crazy, I'm much more relaxed.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 05, 2009, 11:41:30 pm
It's more...focused, logical, irritable. I suppose that would do it. Perhaps we need more pressure on you. Like my vote.

So who do you think is scum now and why?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 05, 2009, 11:45:02 pm
Let me serve up a more interesting question, that one's boring.

Who, if scum now, would you think would pose the most danger to the town, and why? En List please. The voting table should serve as a reasonable !alive.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: SirBayer on November 05, 2009, 11:55:04 pm
This'll be interesting to hear.

Just a comment here - as I'm new, I'm going to assume I shouldn't feel bad about having little to no knowledge of these people's history. I don't know how they play. I suspect it's a disadvantage for me, but I'm just trying to do what I can while I can.

Assuming, then, that scum would not request extensions willingly (completely ignoring any WIFOM), the only remaining suspects are Myself, Org, Laetificius, and Apostolic. I'll try to clear myself by pointing out that scum would not want to include themselves in a narrowed group, especially new scum. Whether or not that works, whatever.

I'll think about interrogation... later. ._.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: Vector on November 06, 2009, 12:50:53 am
Let me serve up a more interesting question, that one's boring.

Who, if scum now, would you think would pose the most danger to the town, and why? En List please. The voting table should serve as a reasonable !alive.

Excellent, an interesting question.  It actually depends most on the composition of the town... but let's say we're working with this composition.

Vector - I'm probably at the top of this list.  I have more experience than the rest of you, and I have a lot of experience playing scum.  I'm also good at picking kills and maximizing town arguments.

CobaltKobold - You know the tells, which none of the rest of us seem to (I certainly don't).  That knowledge imbalance constitutes a serious danger.  You're also quite smart.  You'll surpass me on this list pretty soon, but you're even higher-strung than I am--which is saying something.

Apostolic Nihilist - I can't read him, and he seems fairly smart.  I think that with enough pressure I'd be able to get him to crack, but I think that for a lot of the newbies in this game he'd be dangerous scum.

Laetificus - I'm just guessing in placing him here.  I don't really know much about him, but he seems like he'd be a tough opponent to face until the end of D2 or so, which is around where the town would be able to take him down.  Don't ask how I know that.

Org - I can't read him at all, and he lurks all the time.  He's the sort of person I pray isn't scum, sort of like Webadict.  A useless Webadict.

SirBayer - If he were active scum, I'd probably be able to see him coming from a mile away.  As it is, he's not talking much, active-lurking, whatever.  Hoping he's not another silent and furious from around the bend.

Tehstefan - I think he could probably pull something off, though I don't know about it.  He's another person I'd expect to get caught around D2 or so by the medium-experience folks.

RedWarrior0 - Seems entirely legible, especially since he isn't lurking now.  Probably the least dangerous out of all of us.


This'll be interesting to hear.

Just a comment here - as I'm new, I'm going to assume I shouldn't feel bad about having little to no knowledge of these people's history. I don't know how they play. I suspect it's a disadvantage for me, but I'm just trying to do what I can while I can.

Assuming, then, that scum would not request extensions willingly (completely ignoring any WIFOM), the only remaining suspects are Myself, Org, Laetificius, and Apostolic. I'll try to clear myself by pointing out that scum would not want to include themselves in a narrowed group, especially new scum. Whether or not that works, whatever.

I'll think about interrogation... later. ._.

... What are you, a moron-cupcake?  You make too many assumptions, and you should stop with the emotional appeals.  Are you going to play, or not?  If you're town, it's your job to ask questions and find out who's scum.  If you're scum, continue playing as you are.

A question for you: why aren't you following up your suspicions on Org?  It looks like you're attacking him just so it looks like you've attacked someone.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 03:47:37 am
(@sirbayer) But they do like those groupings when they aren't in it. They LOVE those groupings, as it means the focus is off them, for whate'er reason (or e'en a lack of one).

...
Assuming, then, that scum would not request extensions willingly (completely ignoring any WIFOM), the only remaining suspects are Myself, Org, Laetificius, and Apostolic. I'll try to clear myself by pointing out that scum would not want to include themselves in a narrowed group, especially new scum. Whether or not that works, whatever.

I'll think about interrogation... later. ._.
...Okay, so you're saying that you're including yourself in this group right next to "ignoring any wifom" and "scum don't want to do this". And saying "Hey that makes me clear ok". This smells like WIFOM to me. Putting off asking questions appears also mildly scummy,  is potentially excusable by time constraints, really only icing on the cake.

PPE: Oops, left this tab floating rather than posting. Prior text was written bout when SirBayer posted.
Quote from: Vector
It actually depends most on the composition of the town... but let's say we're working with this composition.
What do you mean composition? I see no referent for "this composition".
Quote from: Vector
Vector[...]I'm also good at picking kills and maximizing town arguments.
Good, we could use som- oh, wait, setup's too simple for a vigilante. Don't think we want you maximizing town arguments either.
Quote from: Vector
CobaltKobold[...] you're even higher-strung than I am

Quote from: Vector
Laetificus [...]Don't ask how I know that.
How do you know that? It's not very town to hold back your information. The mafia have an information lead to the start. The town need to close that gap to win by anything other than luck.
Quote from: Vector
SirBayer If he were active scum, I'd probably be able to see him coming from a mile away.   [...]Hoping he's not another silent and furious from around the bend.
"silent and furious from around the bend"? Please explain what that is supposed to signify. Also, if his IRC mafiosoing is any indicator, he had me fooled into thinking he was an active town. I would not discount him so easily, though he did seem to be easily confused.
AN: I don't know his meta either, so I agree.
Tehstefan: sorry, got nothin'. So, middle of the pack.
Org: lurky, yes. But historically lurky, so it's harder to say "that's mafia lurk". Flip side, his townself seems to be posting a lot more, so this may point him out. Pointed out the easy lynch of Martyr Syndrome rather too enthusiastically for my taste.
Quote from: Vector
A question for you: why aren't you following up your suspicions on Org?
I assume by quote placement that this is for SirBayer.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: Vector on November 06, 2009, 04:31:00 am
In which Vector needs to learn how to speak normally: Part the 296748th.

Quote from: Vector
It actually depends most on the composition of the town... but let's say we're working with this composition.

What do you mean composition? I see no referent for "this composition".

Composition: the players in the game, with their particular amounts of Lurkiness, Perception, Intellect, etc.  Essentially, the atmosphere in which we are playing.  I'm saying "these players, in this system," rather than "these players, in an arbitrary system."  I consider the distinction important, though you may not.


Quote from: Vector
Vector[...]I'm also good at picking kills and maximizing town arguments

Good, we could use som- oh, wait, setup's too simple for a vigilante. Don't think we want you maximizing town arguments either.

Indeed.  That would be I'm not picking any fights with people I don't think are scum/stupid town.

Quote from: Vector
Laetificus [...]Don't ask how I know that.

How do you know that? It's not very town to hold back your information. The mafia have an information lead to the start. The town need to close that gap to win by anything other than luck.

I frequently say "don't ask how I know that/why I think that" when it comes down to "my brain put together information for me, but the process doesn't lend itself well to words/conventional logic."  I'll try anyway.  Laetificus is serious, and likely full of himself.  He has a way with words.  However, it's only his first game.  If he's scum, he'll get through D1 easy, when the town is trying to get information and having a rabid lynch-fest.  D2, town is scared.  Town wants blood.  Town is going to pressure, since it knows it's one away from Lylo.

When the pressure comes up, he'll try to stand cool, but I think he'll slip.  This is because the ones who are serious and wordy frequently aren't that calm.  They're jittery and prone to panic, though some hide that better than others.  Eventually they become inured... but D2, when everyone is being scrutinized, is usually a pretty rough day for scum.  I think Laetificus would crumble if he were put under the spotlight.

Just a guess.

Quote from: Vector
SirBayer If he were active scum, I'd probably be able to see him coming from a mile away.   [...]Hoping he's not another silent and furious from around the bend.


"silent and furious from around the bend"? Please explain what that is supposed to signify. Also, if his IRC mafiosoing is any indicator, he had me fooled into thinking he was an active town. I would not discount him so easily, though he did seem to be easily confused.

Where by "silent and furious around the bend," I mean someone quiet who is aggressive when required, and suddenly shows up in your face in the endgame.  Like scum who lurk D1 and D2 under pretext of confusion and appear at Lylo, saying "Hey, everybody!  I found our scum!" and then the "scum" in question turns out to be the cop.

That sort of person.

Quote from: Vector
A question for you: why aren't you following up your suspicions on Org?

I assume by quote placement that this is for SirBayer.

Yes.  That is indeed for SirBayer.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 04:47:47 am
Did I unvote you yet? unvote, your answers are as meat and drink (not wine).
Composition: the players in the game, with their particular amounts of Lurkiness, Perception, Intellect, etc.  Essentially, the atmosphere in which we are playing.  I'm saying "these players, in this system," rather than "these players, in an arbitrary system."  I consider the distinction important, though you may not.
Ah, you mean the players in this game. I did mean only them.
Quote from: vector
However, it's only his first game.  If he's scum, he'll get through D1 easy, when the town is trying to get information and having a rabid lynch-fest.  D2, town is scared.  Town wants blood.  Town is going to pressure, since it knows it's one away from Lylo.
I think I saw him on the IRC mafia,may be wrong there. Also, it IS day 2. I'm not really seeing much pressure, just single votes floating and not doing a whole lot. (Except landing on me. *swat*) At least we ha'e the weekend now.

So...org is, apparently, dodging questions in what feels to me like habit ([questions for org] [time passes] "Hey org you ha'en't answered my questions" Org: "What questions? Point me at them."

C'mon out, Org. I'll e'en put it in neon lights.
Hey, Org, may I ask you a serious question here?

What kind of reads are you getting of people, if any, and why do you feel that way?
And from me... If you (org) were scum, what information (aside from that you're scum) would you feel would be most dangerous to you? Why?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 07:51:10 am
This'll be interesting to hear.

Just a comment here - as I'm new, I'm going to assume I shouldn't feel bad about having little to no knowledge of these people's history. I don't know how they play. I suspect it's a disadvantage for me, but I'm just trying to do what I can while I can.

To quickly address this:

Normally you would be correct: knowing a person's history (or 'meta' as it's called) is very powerful.  However, in this game just about everyone is pretty new to this place: some never having shown up at all until this game.  As such everyone is floundering without any past history to read. 

So for this game, no you are NOT at a disadvantage.  You know almost as much about these folks as I do (excluding the "Host knows everything about the game" business ;). 

Current Vote Count:
SirBayer[1]: Vector
CobaltKobold[1]: RedWarrior0
Org[2]: Tehstefan, CobaltKobold
Laetificus:[1]Apostolic Nihilist
Apostolic Nihilist[1]: SirBayer
Tehstefan[1]: Laetificus

Note Voting: Org

Deadline: Monday, 11am EST
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: SirBayer on November 06, 2009, 12:22:45 pm
@Vector: Why don't I follow up my suspicions on Org? Because we're not gonna hear anything from him until the end of the freaking round. There's no point asking a question of someone who isn't going to answer.

Emotional appeals: Vector, you've counted me out as scum already. Responding to a question I wasn't asked, I'm just gonna point this out: I, while not the most dangerous scum, could be one of the most, were I to be scum. Think about it. You've all on some level passed me off. If I were scum, nobody would really... suspect me, because this is just kind of how I play. Lazy-like.

Regarding WIFOM: If you read the statement while ignoring the WIFOM, as suggested by... was it Dakarian or Webadict? I don't recall, but the point is if you do it that way, it makes perfect sense, doesn't it? Isn't this a game of logic?

Final question: Why do we ask these questions of these people? I don't understand what we're meant to get out of them. If I were scum and someone asked me all these questions, I'd answer in exactly the same way as I do as town: completely honestly. There's got to be a better way to find the scumtells we're looking for.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: tehstefan on November 06, 2009, 12:27:05 pm
Everyone! I have a trip, and will not be back until sunday. I wanted to let you all know. I plan on reading and posting on sunday, just letting everyone know why I may seem to disappear for a bit.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 12:45:32 pm
Thanks for telling us about it, Tehstefan.  It has been noted.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 06, 2009, 02:40:07 pm
Right, so I figure I'll try analyzing everyone since I just realized I haven't been contributing much in this mafia. I've organized them into priorities, roughly.

Vector - He's helpful and furthermore acting extremely pro-town. This is hardly good, as most people have stopped suspecting him. If he's scum, we're in a bad situation. A really bad situation, in fact. I'm not picking up any scumtells, but we need to watch him. If he isn't dead in a few days, we need to start suspecting him a lot more. He should be one of the scum's first targets.

Laetificus - He's somewhat helpful, but he's not pressing people much. His latest jab at tehstefan was his only such in the game. At the very least, he's not active lurking and most of his posts have content.

CobaltKobold - There is little to say -- he's active and pressing people. He probably has the most posts in this thread, actually, and since he's a new player I sort of doubt he's scum. Most scum would be hesitant to put themselves in the spotlight by making so many posts as they figure the more posts they make, the more people can analyze.

RedWarrior0 - Mostly silent. He seems like he's trying to slide under the radar, but it could just be his lack of posts. At the very least, the posts he makes do contain content, most of the time.

SirBayer - Bragging about how dangerous he'd be as scum?... er, anyways. He seems to not like asking questions and is indeed trying to stop or at least avoid them. He's acting suspicious. It's similar to how I acted when I was extremely new and town, so it could just be that. Either way, he's not helping town much as it stands.

tehstefan - He's out of town, so it's a bit difficult to question him. He's posting a decent amount, but he's levying no hefty suspicions. Altogether he seems to be a bit wishy-washy, but he seems to be improved from Beginner's Mafia 3, which is more than I can say about myself.

Org - Org is Org. Lurk. Lurk. Maybe an active lurk here and there. This means he's a great scum, but it also means he's really not dangerous at all. As long as we aren't stuck with him at Lylo, we can deal with him. At the very least though, we should try and stir him up, which is what I was trying to do earlier. He's also an expert at evading questions it would seem.
Org, tell me: Does SirBayer strike you as particularly scummy? He doesn't seem to care much for questions, which is mostly what this game is based around at this stage. He's trying to reassure us that he's town by reassuring himself that he's answering 'completely honestly'.
He was also grasping at straws to implicate me earlier, though I'm not sure why -- faulty reasoning is often present in scum's accusations.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: SirBayer on November 06, 2009, 04:11:34 pm
He was also grasping at straws to implicate me earlier, though I'm not sure why -- faulty reasoning is often present in scum's accusations.

[citation needed]
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 05:22:47 pm
I, while not the most dangerous scum, could be one of the most, were I to be scum. Think about it. You've all on some level passed me off. If I were scum, nobody would really... suspect me, because this is just kind of how I play. Lazy-like.
I did not. And you tell me what I know to be why I do not think you should be discounted:
Quote from: SirBayer
If I were scum and someone asked me all these questions, I'd answer in exactly the same way as I do as town: completely honestly. There's got to be a better way to find the scumtells we're looking for.
Clearly you can't be COMPLETELY honest as scum, though, else: "Are you scum?" "Yes." *lynch scum*. Basically all exceptions boil down to this and trying to not implicate others. It is these that we look for. And shoddy reasoning as AN claims and then you point out in him.

Org, come out and post.
AN, please point out the "faulty reasoning" of Org.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 06, 2009, 05:39:31 pm
I, while not the most dangerous scum, could be one of the most, were I to be scum. Think about it. You've all on some level passed me off. If I were scum, nobody would really... suspect me, because this is just kind of how I play. Lazy-like.
I did not. And you tell me what I know to be why I do not think you should be discounted:
Quote from: SirBayer
If I were scum and someone asked me all these questions, I'd answer in exactly the same way as I do as town: completely honestly. There's got to be a better way to find the scumtells we're looking for.
Clearly you can't be COMPLETELY honest as scum, though, else: "Are you scum?" "Yes." *lynch scum*. Basically all exceptions boil down to this and trying to not implicate others. It is these that we look for. And shoddy reasoning as AN claims and then you point out in him.

Org, come out and post.
AN, please point out the "faulty reasoning" of Org.
Not of Org, but of SirBayer:
I don't see any need for an extension. Unvote.
Martyr Syndrome is as scummy as they come.
Town has no valid reason whatsoever for spreading WIFOM.

'Scuse me, but am I the only one picking up some bandwagoning here?

Apostolic Nihilist, what say you to that?
If I hadn't voted Martyr, he could've tied the vote with a vote on Org; in other words, it wasn't bandwagoning at all, and I'm not sure why SirBayer believed it to be.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 05:46:53 pm
Ah thank you for the correction.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: Vector on November 06, 2009, 10:07:05 pm
@Vector: Why don't I follow up my suspicions on Org? Because we're not gonna hear anything from him until the end of the freaking round. There's no point asking a question of someone who isn't going to answer.

And if he's scum?

Emotional appeals: Vector, you've counted me out as scum already. Responding to a question I wasn't asked, I'm just gonna point this out: I, while not the most dangerous scum, could be one of the most, were I to be scum. Think about it. You've all on some level passed me off. If I were scum, nobody would really... suspect me, because this is just kind of how I play. Lazy-like.

So you're generating emotional appeals and telling us we should lynch you, except for the fact that you're noobish scum who doesn't know how to do anything but defend himself.  Oooh, you're dangerous.  So scary.

How about you go scare the pants off the scum, rather than sitting here WIFOMing the town?  Go on.  I'm sure you can do it.

Regarding WIFOM: If you read the statement while ignoring the WIFOM, as suggested by... was it Dakarian or Webadict? I don't recall, but the point is if you do it that way, it makes perfect sense, doesn't it? Isn't this a game of logic?

It is also a social game.  Consider a person who is lying.  You want to find out that they are lying.  As such, you must consider the opposite of their statement.  However!  Maybe that's just what they want you to think, and maybe they are telling the truth...

That is WIFOM, which cannot be ignored unless you know the truth.  Scum.  This game is more social than logical.  It is logical when you consider power roles and things scum will not do under any circumstances.  Otherwise, you can map it onto normal social situations.  RVS = polite social chitchat... trying to figure out what others' motivations are.  Then we get into the heavy conversations, the voting, the late-night discussions, the attempts to find out who is your friend and who is your foe.

Think about it like that.  It might help.

Final question: Why do we ask these questions of these people? I don't understand what we're meant to get out of them. If I were scum and someone asked me all these questions, I'd answer in exactly the same way as I do as town: completely honestly. There's got to be a better way to find the scumtells we're looking for.

Eventually, someone is going to slip.  You can't play the want to play.  This game is one of uncertainty and paranoia, but you can't get locked into fear of losing.  You have to ask questions, and you have to lynch.

Change your behavior or face lynchery.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: dakarian on November 06, 2009, 10:20:11 pm
I can butt in a bit on the 'why ask these questions' matter.

Townies and scum have two VERY different goals in the day time:

Townies: kill mafia

Scum: Don't die

The townie side is obvious since the only way they can win is to lynch the enemy.  The scum..remember that they have the allmighty NightKill, which lets them off townies as they want.  Meanwhile, the only way they can lose is to be lynched.  The result is that, although a mislynch is nice for them, they only NEED to make sure they don't die.

Thus, the townie ends up with a need to kill during the day.  Paranoia, panic, and betrayal fills them: someone that calls you 'friend' wants you dead, and if you don't kill them, they will kill you.  Thus, townie aggression.  Scum doesn't care who dies so long as they don't die.  They lynch someone NOT because they are 'scummy' but because 'they aren't me'. 

Scum can play and pretend that they are being honest and true.  However, it's an act.  No matter how good you are, your true colors WILL show eventually.  The small cracks that demonstrate that are scumtells.

Everyone has their own ideas on what marks a scumtell and what brings one out.  Your goal is to figure out who is being genuine and who is lying to you through any (legal) means possible. 

Just try to look at individuals and try to decide "are you really desperate to kill a mafia or are you just trying to keep yourself alive?"

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: Vector on November 06, 2009, 10:46:54 pm
You can't play the want to play.

... I'm sorry, I have no idea what the hell I even thought I was saying there.  Just ignore that sentence, please.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 10:55:11 pm
But I do. You were saying "You can't play the way you want to play", contrary to the attitude of the (town) Vector I know.
4. I do not have to play the game by your standards alone, Free Beer.
This is a game he was town in, people. Take note.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: Laetificus on November 06, 2009, 11:21:37 pm
If you look at the state of this game this far, things seem rather in shambles. And, I guess they should be. No one's been clearly dim enough to give away any caught tells, so the amount of pressure builds and falls at a calculated rate.

Alright, the town is left with a dilemma. At this rate, a lynch that was similar to the lynching of Martyr Syndrome (A confrontation between actually being mafia or just being a purely useless town) is likely to occur. Regardless, my only lynch target has left! I have faith that he's actually having fun somewhere and not simply avoiding the game, unlike several others in this game.

Recently, RedWarrior0 and Org are rising on my suspicions list. Not only are they not actively participating, they tend to pop in at certain times, if only to go with what the crowd is doing, or attempt to relieve pressure when everyone's jumping on them (if only for a short while). These guys are jumping on the subtle bandwagons, if they're actually talking. It's suspicious as far as I take it.

Also, on the opposite scale, active players, perhaps not ultra pro-town ones like Vector and CobaltKobold, but the slightly less sure footed (or at ones that are pulling that) such as SirBayer and tehstefan should be kept under some light.

Sirbayer, you seem to be suffering from a combination of defensiveness, jumpiness as well as tunneled thinking.
This'll be interesting to hear.

Just a comment here - as I'm new, I'm going to assume I shouldn't feel bad about having little to no knowledge of these people's history. I don't know how they play. I suspect it's a disadvantage for me, but I'm just trying to do what I can while I can.

Assuming, then, that scum would not request extensions willingly (completely ignoring any WIFOM), the only remaining suspects are Myself, Org, Laetificius, and Apostolic. I'll try to clear myself by pointing out that scum would not want to include themselves in a narrowed group, especially new scum. Whether or not that works, whatever.

I'll think about interrogation... later. ._.

Let's see... hiding behind the fact that you're newer than any of us (save for me), trying to bring the fact that scum won't willingly vote for the extension (and seemingly ignoring that they can act) and that people who didn't are therefore highly suspicious. This is group that includes yourself isn't it? Hm... I remember hearing something, how do we play? Lazy-like? I guess. The extension was already passed, so there was no further reason to jump the bandwagon, I take it.

I'd also love to hear any more ways you can suspiciously dodge questions.
Regarding WIFOM: If you read the statement while ignoring the WIFOM, as suggested by... was it Dakarian or Webadict? I don't recall, but the point is if you do it that way, it makes perfect sense, doesn't it? Isn't this a game of logic?

Mafia: A game of logic. A perfect deflection, right? After all, that's all mafia should be. Aside from the caustic environment created in order to crack people's minds. Aside from the fact that logic is perfectly directional. It can be made to drift, and land exactly where you please. Of course, the WIFOM is exactly what happens when this goes astray, sometimes preferably.

Final question: Why do we ask these questions of these people? I don't understand what we're meant to get out of them. If I were scum and someone asked me all these questions, I'd answer in exactly the same way as I do as town: completely honestly. There's got to be a better way to find the scumtells we're looking for.
You're acting as if asking questions and suspicion is a unimportant part of the mechanics of the game. Well, in a game based around logic, what do we want people to do? We need them to say things, we need to see them when they're vulnerable, when they're defensive. If no one asks anything, there's no way any scumtells would ever be made. Scumtells are a manifestation of irrational judgment and emotions caused by how the gears in this game turn.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 12:14:57 am
Org is currently being prodded

Redwarrior and Tehstefan had already said they'll be away this weekend so they are covered until Monday.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: Vector on November 07, 2009, 12:44:57 am
But I do. You were saying "You can't play the way you want to play", contrary to the attitude of the (town) Vector I know.

4. I do not have to play the game by your standards alone, Free Beer.

This is a game he was town in, people. Take note.

...

Stop putting words in my mouth.  If I don't know what I meant to say, I'm almost certain that you don't.  If you want to know what I was thinking at the time, I seem to remember something about "Do you want to play or not" and "You can't just sit around lurking."

As long as a person is active and thinks, I don't care what they do.  The sole requirement is that they play the game.  Toony-tunneling, confirmed-townie lynching, funky speech pattern, weakness to scum sweet talk... it's all fine.  They'd just better post, and the posts had better say something more than "Oooh, I'm so confuzzled.  I will cry into my ham sandwich until the pain fades away."


Speaking of which:

Apostolic Nihilist, is there some reason why you're going after only easy kills?  Thank you for the WoT and all that.  Yes, yes.  Very helpful.  Now get off your ass and start scum-hunting.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 08:06:16 am
Current Vote Count:
SirBayer[1]: Vector
CobaltKobold[1]: RedWarrior0
Org[3]: Tehstefan, CobaltKobold, Apostolic Nihilist
Apostolic Nihilist[1]: SirBayer
Tehstefan[1]: Laetificus

Note Voting: Org

Deadline: Monday, 11am EST

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: Org on November 07, 2009, 09:09:01 am
You messed up. Hurr hurr.
Current Vote Count:
SirBayer[1]: Vector
CobaltKobold[1]: RedWarrior0
Org[2]: Tehstefan, CobaltKobold

Apostolic Nihilist[1]: SirBayer
Tehstefan[1]: Laetificus
Org: Apostolic Nihilist

Note Voting: Org

Deadline: Monday, 11am EST


So guys, bandwagoning an easy target? Scummy as I see it.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 03:49:14 pm
*glances at Org* You quoted some other game.  The vote count is accurate.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2009, 05:43:47 pm
Org, by not voting, you're not helping. It just shows that even though you're under pressure, you don't want to seem too aggressive, which is a good scumtell.

So, if you're town, you're bad town, and if you're scum, you're really bad scum.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: SirBayer on November 07, 2009, 09:25:17 pm
Very well, AN. I'll accept that.

Unvote

Vector, why the over-reaction to a slight change of interpretation? He didn't even vote for you, just a vague FoS.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: Org on November 07, 2009, 09:28:12 pm
Org, by not voting, you're not helping. It just shows that even though you're under pressure, you don't want to seem too aggressive, which is a good scumtell.

So, if you're town, you're bad town, and if you're scum, you're really bad scum.
But Im not sure who to vote unless I vote one of them who voted me but thats an OMGUS and scumtell!
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 07, 2009, 09:29:50 pm
OMGUS is a scumtell if it has no reason. If you back it up sufficiently, it shouldn't be.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: Org on November 07, 2009, 09:43:09 pm
He seems to maybe be deflecting/grouping "scummy people" together. Kinda scummy. I wasnt awake to do a day extension.

Quote from: Bayer
Assuming, then, that scum would not request extensions willingly (completely ignoring any WIFOM), the only remaining suspects are Myself, Org, Laetificius, and Apostolic. I'll try to clear myself by pointing out that scum would not want to include themselves in a narrowed group, especially new scum. Whether or not that works, whatever.


Most dangerous info to me? My role? How I play? I guess.

And finally, reads on people. Well, I thought Martyr was scum, seems he was just a MORON. Tehstefan, you seem scummy to me. My reasoning behind this, you ask? Being helpful, and a bit open and active. What, I hear everyone asking, what? Why would you ever lynch someone for BEING HELPFUL? Well, usually I would say being too active is not so good, although I am basing this on how I play so maybe it is not the best of reasons. Maybe its just me, but I actually tend to be more active when playing scum.

Webadict, as an IC, what do you think?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: dakarian on November 07, 2009, 10:42:25 pm
I can state one thing ahead of Webadict.

lately Webadict has not only stopped claiming OMGUS as a scumtell, but he's started considering people who avoid doing such things AS slightly scummy.  Call it the 'Anti-OMGUS scumtell"


"I" will say this myself:

Town doesn't win if they can avoid getting suspected or even lynched.  Town wins when they find and kill scum. 

So, Everyone:  Is what you are doing now trying to avoid getting hurt, or trying to find the scum?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: webadict on November 08, 2009, 12:29:09 am
I can state one thing ahead of Webadict.

lately Webadict has not only stopped claiming OMGUS as a scumtell, but he's started considering people who avoid doing such things AS slightly scummy.  Call it the 'Anti-OMGUS scumtell"


"I" will say this myself:

Town doesn't win if they can avoid getting suspected or even lynched.  Town wins when they find and kill scum. 

So, Everyone:  Is what you are doing now trying to avoid getting hurt, or trying to find the scum?
Actually, now that I've called anti-OMGUS as a scumtell, I'm starting to reintegrate the OMGUS scumtell.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 08, 2009, 01:26:27 am
webadict: You're crazy.

Now to see if I can cleanse the 30page monster from my head for the supposedly 'lighter' mafia game....re-scanning. I think I have identified a critical flaw in my playstyle that needs fixing before multiple games work well. Namely, that I do it in short-term memory.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 08, 2009, 01:53:43 am
unvote
[spoiler=quick go through thread to put it at top of memory]
Org: leaped on MS for the easy lynch. Didn't vote initially. Fifthvote(hammer if we had)...like he's avoiding votes 3,4? safebandwagon? Seems to be doin' his usual somewhat-improved Org thing?
Apostolic Nihilist: Org for inacti'ity. Fourth! on MS. Third! on Org.
tehstefan:(supported)calls CK and Vector appear town, thinks Vector/Org could be dangerous
CobaltKobold: Second on MS. Completely explodes(or so I felt) when voted by sofRedWarrior0 d2 and called on an allegedly unsupported crossvote. Scumhunting much.
SirBayer: ...kinda passive? Casual? Hard to pin down, seems to support others. Crossvotes Vector for "overreacting to slight different interpretation".
Laetificus: Third! on MS. Says "Hmm, the really active Vector/CK are prolly town".
Vector: goes "Hey, nice" at RW0. First on MS Ignores my question as "obvious" Scumhunting much.
RedWarrior0: leaps on CobaltKobold for inconsistency. Lurky RW0 as usual.
==DEAD==
Martyr Syndrome:didn't do anything besides be an easy lynch :([/quote]Nothing seems to be reason to lynchvote at this time, so pressurevote Apostolic Nihilist you devious scum you.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 08, 2009, 01:54:14 am
...syntax error, [spoiler] + [/quote] = blargh
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: Vector on November 08, 2009, 07:25:29 pm
Vector, why the over-reaction to a slight change of interpretation? He didn't even vote for you, just a vague FoS.

It pisses me off when people pretend to know what I'm thinking, especially when they decide I'm a hypocritical old bastard.  You may look to my walls of overreaction in the same game he cited, if you want further evidence that I usually act this way to similar situations.

Hoping to see what you have to say soon, tehstefan and RedWarrior0.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: tehstefan on November 08, 2009, 11:50:52 pm
Here's what I have to say.

Org, you still haven't told me anything about you. I've asked you several different questions, and you haven't answered them, while lurking all the while. After you then vote me, you give, to me, mediocre reasonings at best.  You say your most active when your scum, but how do we know this? For all we know, you could be trying to draw suspicion away from yourself with that statement. Besides, your basing how I play off how you play, and give no real concrete reasons. It seems to me like active lurking at its finest.

My vote remains, as it did earlier in the game, on you Org. You seem to not jump in until the pressures on, then make rather useless comments to try and get the pressure off. That, plus your hammer vote, right at the end, really seems to stack the cards against you.

Let me ask a question here, to everyone. What is your thoughts on the vote count right now? Its tied between me and Org at two votes each, with one day left. Whats your perspective?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: Vector on November 08, 2009, 11:59:37 pm
If we have a no-lynch, it's not going to kill us (since we're at even numbers).

I'd rather see Org dead than you, because I think he's more dangerous + scummier + less of an asset.  I still want to press SirBayer to get out here, so I'm keeping my vote on him.

Tehstefan, I'd like to hear about your current suspicions (other than Org).

Apostolic Nihilist and SirBayer, I'm still waiting on that scum-hunting.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: dakarian on November 09, 2009, 12:08:30 am
Current Vote Count:
SirBayer[1]: Vector
CobaltKobold[1]: RedWarrior0
Org[2]: Tehstefan, Apostolic Nihilist
Apostolic Nihilist[1]: CobaltKobold
Tehstefan[1]: Laetificus
Vector[1]:SirBayer

Note Voting: Org

Deadline: Monday, 11am EST

4 requests to extend with no objections are required to extend for another day.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: Vector on November 09, 2009, 12:26:37 am
Do not edit your posts, Young Scumsir.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: tehstefan on November 09, 2009, 12:35:56 am
My apologies for that.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: Org on November 09, 2009, 07:08:01 am
Current Vote Count:
SirBayer[1]: Vector
CobaltKobold[1]: RedWarrior0
Org[2]: Tehstefan, Apostolic Nihilist
Apostolic Nihilist[1]: CobaltKobold
Tehstefan[1]: Laetificus
Vector[1]:SirBayer

Note Voting: Org

Deadline: Monday, 11am EST

4 requests to extend with no objections are required to extend for another day.
I am voting for Note?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: Org on November 09, 2009, 07:09:46 am
I am voting for Tehstefan. It has not changed.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: dakarian on November 09, 2009, 10:43:06 am
Current Vote Count:
SirBayer[1]: Vector
CobaltKobold[1]: RedWarrior0
Org[2]: Tehstefan, Apostolic Nihilist
Apostolic Nihilist[1]: CobaltKobold
Tehstefan[2]: Laetificus, Org
Vector[1]:SirBayer

Deadline: Monday, 11am EST

Deadline in less than 20 minutes.

Note that the day ends when I declare it.  If the deadline hits and I havn't posted then you can still continue: just know that without extensions I'll end it the second I can do so.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4:Night 2 Will they live happily ever after?
Post by: dakarian on November 09, 2009, 11:00:33 am
Flavor removed due to Fastracking (host needing to rush to get the post in)

No one has been lynched

It is now night.  Those with night roles, send me your choics.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Night 2 Will they live happily ever after?
Post by: dakarian on November 09, 2009, 08:23:33 pm
The living room is proving to be the most difficult, but most useful room in the house.  So much has happened there within a short time span that it's proving difficult to tell which happened on what day.

Furthermore, some of the information seems missing, or else not explaining all of the events. 


RedWarrior0, for example, is one of the deceased, but none of the voting slips list him as one of the chosen.  In fact, many of the lists don't mention him at all.

The reports, at least, show more of the story.  Somehow, he died one day after the first body, and late into the night.


He also didn't die easy, given the trama to the head.


RedWarrior0, townie, has been killed in the night.


Survivors:
Org
Apostolic Nihilist
tehstefan
CobaltKobold
SirBayer
Laetificus
Vector

Deadline: Wednesday, 11th 11am EST


Also, from here on SirBayer is in need of a replacement.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 One replacement needed.
Post by: Org on November 09, 2009, 08:28:57 pm
Tehstefan. The fact that a noob is still alive astounds me, especially you. Lets face it, I think you're scum.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 One replacement needed.
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 09, 2009, 08:29:14 pm
Ow...


Listen.... the killer.... it's.... *dies*
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 One replacement needed.
Post by: Vector on November 09, 2009, 08:44:40 pm
Tehstefan. The fact that a noob is still alive astounds me, especially you. Lets face it, I think you're scum.

Org, you're awfully chatty and seem to be voting Tehstefan for entirely arbitrary reasons.  Why would the scum go for noobs while leaving all the advanced (and dangerous) players lying around?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 One replacement needed.
Post by: Org on November 09, 2009, 08:46:49 pm
Tehstefan. The fact that a noob is still alive astounds me, especially you. Lets face it, I think you're scum.

Org, you're awfully chatty and seem to be voting Tehstefan for entirely arbitrary reasons.  Why would the scum go for noobs while leaving all the advanced (and dangerous) players lying around?
Why are you protecting him? They would go for noobs, while the "advanced players" tend not to agree as much on anything and actually argue more than the nubcakes.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 One replacement needed.
Post by: tehstefan on November 09, 2009, 08:51:39 pm
Sure they argue more, but they also think for themselves Org. What would make me any more of a target than anyone else? In fact, the lack of argument would be great, as an experienced scum could completely manipulate the town. Webadict did just that, killing off all the town that could argue, and then the noobs, including myself, were completely taken off guard.


Org My vote stays on you  for the exact same reason it was on you yesterday.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 One replacement needed.
Post by: Vector on November 09, 2009, 08:53:42 pm
Why are you protecting him? They would go for noobs, while the "advanced players" tend not to agree as much on anything and actually argue more than the nubcakes.

I'm not protecting him.  I'm telling you you're being ridiculous and acting incredibly scummy.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 One replacement needed.
Post by: MagmaDeath on November 09, 2009, 08:55:12 pm
I am willing to replace SirBayer.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 One replacement needed.
Post by: Org on November 09, 2009, 08:57:46 pm
Why are you protecting him? They would go for noobs, while the "advanced players" tend not to agree as much on anything and actually argue more than the nubcakes.

I'm not protecting him.  I'm telling you you're being ridiculous and acting incredibly scummy.
I think you are being a MORON. Get that in your head?

PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT GOOD AT MAFIAS(IE NEW PEOPLE) MAY BE MORE LIKELY TO AGREE AND JOIN UP WITH ANOTHER PLAYER BECAUSE THEY MIGHT HAVE PLAYED A BIT MORE AND KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING. GET THAT?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 One replacement needed.
Post by: Vector on November 09, 2009, 09:05:18 pm
I think you are being a MORON. Get that in your head?

PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT GOOD AT MAFIAS(IE NEW PEOPLE) MAY BE MORE LIKELY TO AGREE AND JOIN UP WITH ANOTHER PLAYER BECAUSE THEY MIGHT HAVE PLAYED A BIT MORE AND KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING. GET THAT?

First off, copying Webadict's playstyle without Webadict's intelligence in tow is going to get you nowhere.  He gets away with being abrasive only because he's smart.  Second, you're still being silly.  Why would the scum want agreeable people dead?  Followers mean easy votes and lynch-controlling.

Now stop being stupid and provide me with some real answers.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 One replacement needed.
Post by: Org on November 09, 2009, 09:11:03 pm
I think you are being a MORON. Get that in your head?

PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT GOOD AT MAFIAS(IE NEW PEOPLE) MAY BE MORE LIKELY TO AGREE AND JOIN UP WITH ANOTHER PLAYER BECAUSE THEY MIGHT HAVE PLAYED A BIT MORE AND KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING. GET THAT?

First off, copying Webadict's playstyle without Webadict's intelligence in tow is going to get you nowhere.  He gets away with being abrasive only because he's smart.  Second, you're still being silly.  Why would the scum want agreeable people dead?  Followers mean easy votes and lynch-controlling.

Now stop being stupid and provide me with some real answers.
....??
Can you not read as well?

Let me try to put it in Layman's terms.

Newbs(IE TehStefan) may be more willing to follow someone who plays Mafia games more, because he is not so good at the game. Now, what this means is they would kill the Advanced Players.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 One replacement needed.
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 09, 2009, 10:26:37 pm
Org, you realize the strategy of virtually any player is to take out the more experienced ones, right? This is a prime reason why webadict would (theoretically) never live very long in most games he plays. Or rather, this used to be true but it seems to be becoming less common. He's too dangerous to be left alive as town, so scum tend to prioritize him, and town tends to get suspicious if he lives too long resulting in his death either way.

Not going after the experienced players is poor strategy -- you're accusing tehstefan on the basis that he's a newb.
You're also suspiciously (inadvertently?) directing heat off the more experienced players.
Org, one giant FOS toward you.

Now, Laetificus. You seem to only speak when prodded, so here's a slight prod.
What do you make of this? What of Org?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 One replacement needed.
Post by: Vector on November 10, 2009, 01:35:02 am
Newbs(IE TehStefan) may be more willing to follow someone who plays Mafia games more, because he is not so good at the game. Now, what this means is they would kill the Advanced Players.

Ah, yes.  So we have tehstefan (a noob) who you think should be dead by now (because the scum are killing noobs) because the scum would kill the Advanced Players.

...

[CONTRADICTION]
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 12:22:19 pm
I'm gladly mistaken on the need of a replacement.  SirBayer will continue to retain his present role.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: SirBayer on November 10, 2009, 12:26:09 pm
Speak of the devil!

Anyway, Org, I agree. You're being suspiciously active, even just in this game. This is the highest concentration of posts you've really had the entire time, or from what I've seen. Can't just take that as sudden interest in the game, can we?

Also, anyone up for the discussion of the scum's choice of who to knock off? RedWarrior0 didn't seem like a huge threat to anyone, in my opinion. If memory serves, he wasn't tunneling anyone, and he wasn't really being a problem at all. I wonder if the scum just random-killed.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: Vector on November 10, 2009, 01:24:11 pm
Anyway, Org, I agree. You're being suspiciously active, even just in this game. This is the highest concentration of posts you've really had the entire time, or from what I've seen. Can't just take that as sudden interest in the game, can we?

Wow, what a surprise!  You use my rationale (except some sort of flimsy, half-baked version) and bandwagon Org, AGAIN.  If he's not scum, I'm willing to bet that you are.

Also, anyone up for the discussion of the scum's choice of who to knock off? RedWarrior0 didn't seem like a huge threat to anyone, in my opinion. If memory serves, he wasn't tunneling anyone, and he wasn't really being a problem at all. I wonder if the scum just random-killed.

My guess: a noobish scumteam misread the argument between CobaltKobold and RedWarrior0 D2 and thought RedWarrior0 was claiming doctor.  Honestly, though, I don't really get it either.  We might as well ask at the end of the game and leave it alone for now, unless anyone has any more insight than I do.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: dakarian on November 10, 2009, 01:55:53 pm
Current Vote Count:
Tehstefan[1]: Org
Org[3]: Vector, Tehstefan, SirBayer
Laetificus[1]: Apostolic Nihilist

Not Voting: CobaltKobold, Laetificus

Deadline: Wednesday, 11th 11am EST
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: SirBayer on November 10, 2009, 02:15:37 pm
Vector: Very good point. Would you like me to vote someone else, sir?

Furthermore, I fail to see the justification for "flimsy, half-baked." Bandwagoning... I understand that suspicion. But I see a lot of Org very suddenly, and I come to the same conclusion. Is there something innately wrong with that?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: Vector on November 10, 2009, 02:40:06 pm
No, I don't want to control your vote.  I want you to scumhunt.

Furthermore, I fail to see the justification for "flimsy, half-baked." Bandwagoning... I understand that suspicion. But I see a lot of Org very suddenly, and I come to the same conclusion. Is there something innately wrong with that?

See, this is the thing.  You're not bringing anything new to the table, and that worries me.  You sit around for all of D1 because you're waiting for an NK.  Now you bandwagon and follow me, without asking Org any questions, prodding him, bringing new accusations, etc.

You're not voting to find out if Org acts town, you're voting for the lynch.  Further, you're voting him based on

you're awfully chatty

and that's it.  Sure, I agree with you.  Sure, I think that's a good reason to press him.  Sure, it all makes sense... except for the part where you're not pressing him, you're just sitting here saying "You're talking too much!  That's suspicious!  I'm going to get you killed, now!"

Did nothing else he said bother you?  Is there some reason why you're not going back to previous days to find a pattern?  Or did you just look for the first thing that jumped in your head as a reason to vote for somebody, and go with it?

If someone in our little bundle seems to be protecting tehstefan (or, at the least, buddying up to him), it's you.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: SirBayer on November 10, 2009, 02:56:49 pm
Okay, okay. You've got a point. I am not doing a whole lot of scumhunting. I'll defend myself mildly with "laziness," but I'll go ahead and get off my butt from here on out.

However, I find it mightily suspicious that you do what you vociferously nagged us about doing: putting words into my mouth. Where's this "defense" you claim I'm putting up?

Oh, I see. You think that by attacking Org, I'm defended Stefan. I see how that conclusion came around. So allow me to elaborate on my thoughts Org's argument here.

He seems to be making an awful lot of conjecture... but nothing that seems particularly premeditated. Rather, it seems a little overly-intense for scum. Well, good scum, anyway. So perhaps I was a bit hasty.

However, I disagree with his theory that scum always eliminates advanced first. Doing  that, while simply scum-tactics, is also a little bit... predictable, perhaps? Again, though, he's making reasonable conjecture and we seem to be skewing it. Or ignoring it altogether. That seems unwise.

In fact, it seems a bit scummy. Looking back, Tehstefan is doing exactly what you accuse me of doing, riding the exact same argument as you...

...and you don't say a thing. Not a little thing about it. So, Vector, what do you say of that?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: Vector on November 10, 2009, 04:15:18 pm
You've got a nasty habit of OMGUSing people who are pressing you, but I'm letting it slide for now because I'm so happy you're finally looking around.  Even if you seem to have a rather horrible case of tunnelvision.

However, I find it mightily suspicious that you do what you vociferously nagged us about doing: putting words into my mouth. Where's this "defense" you claim I'm putting up?

It's not that you're defending him with your words, but with your actions.  Org is louder as he attacks tehstefan.  You tell Org he should talk less.  I feel that that constitutes defense of tehstefan, because the only person attacking him is Org.  If Org started being quiet, then we'd probably go back to letting tehstefan lurk his way around the block.

However, I disagree with his theory that scum always eliminates advanced first. Doing  that, while simply scum-tactics, is also a little bit... predictable, perhaps? Again, though, he's making reasonable conjecture and we seem to be skewing it. Or ignoring it altogether. That seems unwise.

So... here's the thing. I object to Org being contradictory (hence the post that says [CONTRADICTION] in big letters).  His poor logic pisses me off, but more than that he's contradicting himself.  That's a scumtell.

Further, why does his conjecture even matter?  What you're saying is "I voted him because he talks too much, but now I don't want to kill him because his conjecture might be correct."  This, from the person who says that as scum, you'd always tell the truth?  It seems like you're not even looking at the data.  Or maybe you're completely blind.  Or something.  In any case, you're confusing the hell out of me.  Can you explain why you're not a walking nest of contradictions, yourself?

In fact, it seems a bit scummy. Looking back, Tehstefan is doing exactly what you accuse me of doing, riding the exact same argument as you...

...and you don't say a thing. Not a little thing about it. So, Vector, what do you say of that?

If you're talking about

Sure they argue more, but they also think for themselves Org. What would make me any more of a target than anyone else? In fact, the lack of argument would be great, as an experienced scum could completely manipulate the town. Webadict did just that, killing off all the town that could argue, and then the noobs, including myself, were completely taken off guard.

Org My vote stays on you  for the exact same reason it was on you yesterday.

he has D1 reasoning and continues to find Org suspicious.  He isn't riding my argument, he's riding his own argument.  The first part of the post isn't the important bit.  The important thing is that he's continuing to vote Org, rather than suddenly starting when I bring firepower.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: SirBayer on November 10, 2009, 04:22:52 pm
I suppose there's something to that. However, I thought we were looking for changes in behavior here? Furthermore - you're doing the same thing, honestly. Accusing Org based on sudden change of post-frequency. (I suppose we might look for some continuation of this trend - this change of activity, particularly on Org.)

I understand that, then. I fail to see the contradiction as clearly, but I'm fairly confident that's because I can't understand the way he put it.

The conjecture is important as any other piece of evidence we have on him. It indicates mindset and direction somehow. I haven't worked out how, and I'm conjecturing on how his conjecturing relates to scumminess, which in turn etc.

I'm sorry about that, then - I misread his post, apparently. ._. Anyway, that's all rather true. I've got nothing more on either of you, not without doing some deep back-hunting which I don't have time for right now. I'll do that later today!

Cobalt and Laetificius haven't said a thing today. You guys still out there?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: Vector on November 10, 2009, 04:38:57 pm
I suppose there's something to that. However, I thought we were looking for changes in behavior here? Furthermore - you're doing the same thing, honestly. Accusing Org based on sudden change of post-frequency. (I suppose we might look for some continuation of this trend - this change of activity, particularly on Org.)

Ah, I'll explain.  These are my reasons for voting Org:

1. Change in behavior (sudden chattiness, which Pandarsenic says is a scumtell for Org.  Of course, Pandarsenic was scum at the time, so I don't fully trust this one.  Further, Org has been a lot more active in all of his games recently)
2. Jumpiness
3. Contradictory behavior
4. Sudden explosive anger when people vote him (frequently a scumtell)/irrational fear of dying
5. Bandwagoning (might just be an Org thing)

The first and last things were just small warning lights for me.  The other 3 are the serious charges.

The conjecture is important as any other piece of evidence we have on him. It indicates mindset and direction somehow. I haven't worked out how, and I'm conjecturing on how his conjecturing relates to scumminess, which in turn etc.

A good point.  I don't really know how to get anything out of it myself, but I hope you'll post your results when you're done.  They'll be interesting to trawl through.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: Org on November 10, 2009, 04:44:14 pm


1. Change in behavior (sudden chattiness, which Pandarsenic says is a scumtell for Org.  Of course, Pandarsenic was scum at the time, so I don't fully trust this one.  Further, Org has been a lot more active in all of his games recently)
2. Jumpiness
3. Contradictory behavior
4. Sudden explosive anger when people vote him (frequently a scumtell)/irrational fear of dying
5. Bandwagoning (might just be an Org thing)

1 I always try to do this so no one can tell what I am. :3
2 Meh
3 I lold once I figured out that I messed up. :3
4 Irrational, fear of dying??
5 Org thing. :3
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: SirBayer on November 10, 2009, 04:51:25 pm
If/when results come, I'll certainly post them. I should start taking some notes on this.



1. Change in behavior (sudden chattiness, which Pandarsenic says is a scumtell for Org.  Of course, Pandarsenic was scum at the time, so I don't fully trust this one.  Further, Org has been a lot more active in all of his games recently)
2. Jumpiness
3. Contradictory behavior
4. Sudden explosive anger when people vote him (frequently a scumtell)/irrational fear of dying
5. Bandwagoning (might just be an Org thing)

1 I always try to do this so no one can tell what I am. :3
2 Meh
3 I lold once I figured out that I messed up. :3
4 Irrational, fear of dying??
5 Org thing. :3

1. Of course you do.
2. Really?
3. I guess I'll accept that, hesitantly.
4. Yes, when it comes down to it. The thing I'm increasingly realizing is that you have to suppress your survival instinct. No real person would do that, but that's why we play on a forum instead of in real life with guns and "boards with nails in them." (Kudos, Panda, for clever text. I also like how we search his pockets for money. Also how his note is... in his mouth. Along with fillings. That we steal. I feel like a pickpocket.)
5. Of course.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: SirBayer on November 10, 2009, 08:47:45 pm
So I went back and I found all of Org’s posts, then examined what he had to say and compiled thoughts on it. All of it’s in the Spoilers.


Discuss? I find it odd that out of 273-odd posts in this thread, Org's make about 15... about five of them today. I've pointed out other things I find odd in the spoilers. Again, discuss!
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: Vector on November 10, 2009, 08:51:52 pm
1 I always try to do this so no one can tell what I am. :3

False.  You're copying Webadict so much it hurts.  What's with the weird buddying, dude?

2 Meh

...

3 I lold once I figured out that I messed up. :3

Yay, you messed up~!  Aren't we all so happy we managed to find scum?  *dances*

4 Irrational, fear of dying??

For someone who's been playing this game so much and typically cares so little about getting lynched, you sure are acting differently.

5 Org thing. :3

I think that's for us to decide.


@SirBayer:

The thing is, pretty much everyone is pretty jumpy the first time they come under heavy fire.  This is why I haven't been going after CobaltKobold for jumpiness (especially since he realized he was jumping and has been correcting for it), but upon barely prodding Org he exploded.  That's an atypical reaction, even for beginners.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: Org on November 10, 2009, 09:11:33 pm
Dude. I think you are the scum, mostly for the fact that you almost never go out on a limb to try to tackle someone from your thoughts of "scumminess". I think you are reading too much. I am copying webadict oh wow thats not changing my behavior?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 10, 2009, 09:21:34 pm
Now, Laetificus. You seem to only speak when prodded, so here's a slight prod.
What do you make of this? What of Org?
:-/ Apostolic Nihilist didn't respond to being called scum/voted by me AT ALL. Do you think you get to ignore the town, Apostolic Nihilist?
Anyway, Org, I agree. You're being suspiciously active, even just in this game. This is the highest concentration of posts you've really had the entire time, or from what I've seen. Can't just take that as sudden interest in the game, can we?
We could. He seems to be more active than before in all games I've been looking at. The way I see it, SirBayer, people lynch Org for lurking (he must be scum/isn't helping the town), or you lynch him for NOT lurking. A model not depending on its inputs is...class?...a nonpredictive model.

Quote from: SirBayer
Also, anyone up for the discussion of the scum's choice of who to knock off? RedWarrior0 didn't seem like a huge threat to anyone, in my opinion. If memory serves, he wasn't tunneling anyone,
I'll correct your faulty memory, because it serves the town to know the truth: he was focused on me, for the "ICs" comment.
Cobalt and Laetificius haven't said a thing today. You guys still out there?
Yes.

PPE THIS JUST IN: Vector I've got you now, you special-pleading scum. You shall (mis)lead the town no longer.
Quote from: Vector's number One reason for gettingthis Orgwagon started?
1. Change in behavior (sudden chattiness, which Pandarsenic says is a scumtell for Org.  Of course, Pandarsenic was scum at the time, so I don't fully trust this one.  Further, Org has been a lot more active in all of his games recently)
Extension.  Let's hash this thing out and find us some scum, dudes.
Extension.  Let's hash this thing out and find us some scum, dudes.
The town-vector I know is not so nonchalant and casual. Why so not-serious, scum-vector? don't you want to find scum?

Of course I want to find scum.  Otherwise, I wouldn't have voted for an extension.

To address your misconception that town-Vector is always tense, I'm usually tense due to too much insanity IRL.  Now that I'm less crazy, I'm much more relaxed.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: SirBayer on November 10, 2009, 09:28:09 pm
Indeed, Vector. Org, your statement makes no sense.

"I am copying webadict oh wow thats not changing my behavior?" What is that supposed to mean?

Good point, CK.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: Org on November 10, 2009, 09:31:30 pm
Indeed, Vector. Org, your statement makes no sense.

"I am copying webadict oh wow thats not changing my behavior?" What is that supposed to mean?

Good point, CK.
You need to think for yourself once. Vector says this, as one of his points:
1. Change in behavior (sudden chattiness, which Pandarsenic says is a scumtell for Org.  Of course, Pandarsenic was scum at the time, so I don't fully trust this one.  Further, Org has been a lot more active in all of his games recently)

Translation:
I am obvscum or a moron.

Explosive behavior:Null tell. No way. I do this for both.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: SirBayer on November 10, 2009, 09:42:22 pm
Org. I am thinking for myself. I have trawled up a fair amount of evidence against you. I do not trust you. I think you are scum. I agree with the argument. Therefore, I continue to support Vector in his scumhunting. You are obvscum as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: Org on November 10, 2009, 09:46:30 pm
Org. I am thinking for myself. I have trawled up a fair amount of evidence against you. I do not trust you. I think you are scum. I agree with the argument. Therefore, I continue to support Vector in his scumhunting. You are obvscum as far as I'm concerned.
Well, lets see. WHen the town all get back here in a few hours, lets see how it will be, shall we.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: Vector on November 10, 2009, 10:21:05 pm
Vector I've got you now, you special-pleading scum. You shall (mis)lead the town no longer.
Quote from: Vector's number One reason for gettingthis Orgwagon started?
1. Change in behavior (sudden chattiness, which Pandarsenic says is a scumtell for Org.  Of course, Pandarsenic was scum at the time, so I don't fully trust this one.  Further, Org has been a lot more active in all of his games recently)

Extension.  Let's hash this thing out and find us some scum, dudes.
Extension.  Let's hash this thing out and find us some scum, dudes.
The town-vector I know is not so nonchalant and casual. Why so not-serious, scum-vector? don't you want to find scum?

Of course I want to find scum.  Otherwise, I wouldn't have voted for an extension.

To address your misconception that town-Vector is always tense, I'm usually tense due to too much insanity IRL.  Now that I'm less crazy, I'm much more relaxed.

...

Ah, I'll explain.  These are my reasons for voting Org:

1. Change in behavior (sudden chattiness, which Pandarsenic says is a scumtell for Org.  Of course, Pandarsenic was scum at the time, so I don't fully trust this one.  Further, Org has been a lot more active in all of his games recently)
2. Jumpiness
3. Contradictory behavior
4. Sudden explosive anger when people vote him (frequently a scumtell)/irrational fear of dying
5. Bandwagoning (might just be an Org thing)

The first and last things were just small warning lights for me.  The other 3 are the serious charges.

The first and last things were just small warning lights for me.  The other 3 are the serious charges.

DOES NO ONE READ WHAT I WRITE?


You need to think for yourself once. Vector says this, as one of his points:
1. Change in behavior (sudden chattiness, which Pandarsenic says is a scumtell for Org.  Of course, Pandarsenic was scum at the time, so I don't fully trust this one.  Further, Org has been a lot more active in all of his games recently)

Translation:
I am obvscum or a moron.

Translation: I hear it's one of your tells.  I don't necessarily trust it.  As such, I'm mostly ignoring it.

I'm glad to hear that the explosive behavior is an Org thing, but this is the first time I've seen it in action.  As such, I don't trust your word on it this time around.

I feel like you're copying Webadict in your tendency to demean people (in a similar fashion to how he does).  If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong and I apologize for the comparison, because discussion of such doesn't really belong in a Mafia game, anyway.  In any case, the more important thing is your outbursts after a little pressing.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: tehstefan on November 10, 2009, 10:31:19 pm
Hrrm. This discussion is definitely heating up. At least people are discussing, unlike how last day ended. However, I don't like how this discussion is going.

Seems everyone is getting far too worked up about this, and thats not going to help us root out scum. We need to calm down, for now, and really ask questions. Getting worked up will only cause us to mislynch, and give the mafia cover.

Such as, Cobalt, what other reasons than that one slip do you have for considering Vector scum? That hardly seems like a lynchable offense, especially when other members have made themselves less useful, and have more on their record, than him.

Org, why don't you vote for Vector, if your so sure he's scum? Seems like your just proving his own point, that you question, but never act, which is definately a scum tell. If your so sure he's scum, why not vote him?

Personally, I think Org's just trying to save his own skin right now,  and posting whatever he can. Web, can I get your thoughts on this?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 10, 2009, 10:41:39 pm

The first and last things were just small warning lights for me.  The other 3 are the serious charges.

DOES NO ONE READ WHAT I WRITE?
Ah, my apologies. unvote, since I was mistaken. On the plus side, it's easy to get Vector to blow up. On the minus side, you order your lists strangely, Vector.

tehstefan: I'm(was) trying to get him to make more slips. Make people blow up and see if they blow up town or scum. Or at least so I'm told.

Anyway, I'm going back to seeing what's up with Apostolic Nihilist
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: tehstefan on November 10, 2009, 10:55:08 pm
Yeah, I have heard its a good idea, but I'd rather not have a town fight where we kill each other, and scum gleefully lurks its way to victory. More of wanted some serious discussion before the forcing them to crack.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 10, 2009, 11:01:09 pm
I apologize for the lack of reaction, but you didn't really ask much.
Also, pressure votes are less effective when you say they're pressure votes...

I guess I'll just say what I'm thinking, since I don't have any solid accusations:

I haven't had the best feelings for Vector this game. He's been helpful, but not too helpful. He's aggressive, but not enough to draw the spotlight. I almost want to search through some of his other games and figure out how he usually plays scum and see if it's like this.

Of course, there's Org. He exploded. People exploding isn't always a bad thing, but if handled badly it implicates someone who could be town. I want to say that he's scum, I really do, but he seems to be genuinely trying. Not getting lynched as Org is probably difficult, so...

tehstefan really seems to be shouting from the sidelines, encouraging discussion occasionally but not contributing much. This is pretty much what I'm doing, though, so I don't want to accuse him on this.

Laetificus posts infrequently. What he does post is generally quite useful, but such posts are few and far between. I'd like to know if this is due to him strategically lurking or if he has other issues to take care of that take precedent over mafia. I really want to hear more from him.

SirBayer seems a little scummy to me, to put it bluntly. It could just be a subconscious OMGUS, so I've been trying to suppress it. I'll elaborate if someone asks me to, but I think it's pretty obvious what I'm finding scummy about him.

CoboaltKobold is the most pro-town of us all right now. He's unrelenting with his scum hunting, pushing forward. He and Vector are the only two keeping this game alive, it would seem, and he's also damned persuasive. He's like this in most games, though, and I don't think I've seen him as mafia yet, so I could be mistaken.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 10, 2009, 11:06:24 pm
SirBayer seems a little scummy to me, to put it bluntly. It could just be a subconscious OMGUS, so I've been trying to suppress it. I'll elaborate if someone asks me to, but I think it's pretty obvious what I'm finding scummy about him.
do
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: Org on November 11, 2009, 06:59:35 am
Hrrm. This discussion is definitely heating up. At least people are discussing, unlike how last day ended. However, I don't like how this discussion is going.

Seems everyone is getting far too worked up about this, and thats not going to help us root out scum. We need to calm down, for now, and really ask questions. Getting worked up will only cause us to mislynch, and give the mafia cover.

Such as, Cobalt, what other reasons than that one slip do you have for considering Vector scum? That hardly seems like a lynchable offense, especially when other members have made themselves less useful, and have more on their record, than him.

Org, why don't you vote for Vector, if your so sure he's scum? Seems like your just proving his own point, that you question, but never act, which is definately a scum tell. If your so sure he's scum, why not vote him?

Personally, I think Org's just trying to save his own skin right now,  and posting whatever he can. Web, can I get your thoughts on this?
Sir! There seems to be a Fluxuation in the Meter! Oh GOD!

WOOOP WOOP WOOP

IRRATIONAL FEAR OF DYING WOOP
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: SirBayer on November 11, 2009, 11:22:22 am
Hrrm. This discussion is definitely heating up. At least people are discussing, unlike how last day ended. However, I don't like how this discussion is going.

Seems everyone is getting far too worked up about this, and thats not going to help us root out scum. We need to calm down, for now, and really ask questions. Getting worked up will only cause us to mislynch, and give the mafia cover.

Such as, Cobalt, what other reasons than that one slip do you have for considering Vector scum? That hardly seems like a lynchable offense, especially when other members have made themselves less useful, and have more on their record, than him.

Org, why don't you vote for Vector, if your so sure he's scum? Seems like your just proving his own point, that you question, but never act, which is definately a scum tell. If your so sure he's scum, why not vote him?

Personally, I think Org's just trying to save his own skin right now,  and posting whatever he can. Web, can I get your thoughts on this?
Sir! There seems to be a Fluxuation in the Meter! Oh GOD!

WOOOP WOOP WOOP

IRRATIONAL FEAR OF DYING WOOP

Who are you even talking about here?

AN, please do elaborate on why you think I'm scummy. I'm as interested in it as anyone else.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: Vector on November 11, 2009, 01:16:05 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sorry about that.  I guess it's good that somebody likes my bad temper ._.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

... What, you mean the part where no one was attacking him and he asked a couple of critical questions?  Also, perhaps, the part where he's covering your ass and calming things down when they were going badly for you?

If anything, he's buddying... but mostly, Org, it looks like you're trying desperately to get votes on tehstefan and away from you.  Way to press ridiculous charges, dude.

Makes me wish I weren't voting you, so I could give you another one.


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

...

Apostolic Nihilist.  Young Man.  Mr. Scumtastic of the Year, 2009.  Would you mind WAKING UP, PROVIDING YOUR SUSPICIONS, ATTACKING SOMEONE WHO ISN'T A LURKER, and ACTUALLY BEING HELPFUL?




Grargh, it's impossible to have a 4-person scumteam in a game this small.  ... I think.  Sorry, I think I need to go cool down a little.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: tehstefan on November 11, 2009, 01:19:09 pm
I doubt I would be trying to buddy up with the person I want to lynch, Vector.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: Vector on November 11, 2009, 02:10:15 pm
That's only if one makes the assumption that you're actually trying to lynch Org.

... I think I'm too paranoid.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: Org on November 11, 2009, 04:31:44 pm
Org, why don't you vote for Vector, if your so sure he's scum? Seems like your just proving his own point, that you question, but never act, which is definately a scum tell. If your so sure he's scum, why not vote him?
Switch votes? More like this:Get your vote off me and put it on someone else.

Vector is buddying
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 11, 2009, 04:46:52 pm
More than anything, I'm leaning toward an Org/SirBayer scumteam.
At the very least, I think one of them is scum.
Unvote.
I ran through the thread looking for their interactions:

I don't see any need for an extension. Unvote.
Martyr Syndrome is as scummy as they come.
Town has no valid reason whatsoever for spreading WIFOM.

'Scuse me, but am I the only one picking up some bandwagoning here?

Apostolic Nihilist, what say you to that?

Also, Vector - my apologies on missing out on a little bit of time. Real Life interfered.

I am a little disappointed by the lack-of-night-kill. It would be nice if we could find out if we've got a specialist, and if so, what variety, but a role-claim seems useless at this point, really.
I wouldn't call it bandwagoning, per se. Martyr Syndrome claimed scum and so I voted for him, it's as simple as that. I was completely justified in voting for him. Mostly I wanted to make sure he couldn't pop in and vote Org to tie up the votes, though.

Laetificus, do you have any insight you'd like to share? Do you suppose we had a lucky doctor or novice scum?
Okay, yeah, but you waited until it was clear he wasn't winning this time around.

And I suppose that means I should point an FoS at Org, who also appears to have bandwagoned... maybe.
Note this exchange. He attacks me for 'bandwagoning' on Martyr Syndrome and also tries to deflect suspicion from Org. Org is guilty of the same thing I am, (even moreso, in fact); while my vote was hardly superfluous, Org's did nothing and was a pure bandwagon.
He then completely ignores Org for the rest of the game, up until:
Speak of the devil!

Anyway, Org, I agree. You're being suspiciously active, even just in this game. This is the highest concentration of posts you've really had the entire time, or from what I've seen. Can't just take that as sudden interest in the game, can we?

Also, anyone up for the discussion of the scum's choice of who to knock off? RedWarrior0 didn't seem like a huge threat to anyone, in my opinion. If memory serves, he wasn't tunneling anyone, and he wasn't really being a problem at all. I wonder if the scum just random-killed.
From almost anyone's point of view, Org is the one who's going to be lynched today. Even his scumbuddy would notice this. Obviously defending Org would implicate him, so instead he decides to bus.

From here (just look through the past two pages) he uses everyone else's arguments against Org.
What say you to this, SirBayer?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: Vector on November 11, 2009, 04:54:23 pm
Huh?

Oh, you think I'm buddying with tehstefan because I'm supporting his arguments.  To be honest, I disagree with you and think your overdefensiveness is wearing.

That said, though, it'd be pretty sad if we were having a 3-4-townie brawl while the scum sat off snickering to themselves.


All right.

Mod, care to prod Laetificus?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: Org on November 11, 2009, 04:56:16 pm
Huh?

Oh, you think I'm buddying with tehstefan because I'm supporting his arguments.  To be honest, I disagree with you and think your overdefensiveness is wearing.

That said, though, it'd be pretty sad if we were having a 3-4-townie brawl while the scum sat off snickering to themselves.


All right.

Mod, care to prod Laetificus?
Stop snickering.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: dakarian on November 11, 2009, 06:24:03 pm
Current Vote Count:
Tehstefan[1]: Org
Org[3]: Vector, Tehstefan, SirBayer
SirBayer[1]: Apostolic Nihilist
Apostolic Nihilist[1]: CobaltKobold

Not Voting: Laetificus

Mod-created deadline extension due to missing the last deadline:

Deadline: midnight, tonight EST 

Extensions can be accepted upon seeing 3 requests and no objections.

Laetificus prodded
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 11, 2009, 08:08:33 pm
Org is guilty of the same thing I am, (even moreso, in fact);
Admitting to being scum?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: SirBayer on November 11, 2009, 09:58:42 pm
Quote from: SirBayer
And I suppose that means I should point an FoS at Org, who also appears to have bandwagoned... maybe.

And... this means nothing to you? So I decided he wasn't as interesting a target, because he wasn't even talking then. At all. So what was the point in bothering him? I pointed that out to someone else already.

And I already answered the question of using other people's arguments. I don't feel the need to repeat myself.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: Org on November 11, 2009, 10:03:51 pm
Okay, everyone. Just this:I am a townie. If I die, kill Vector and Bayer for me. And thanks, Apost, even if you are scum. AT LEAST THE SCUM LIKE ME. Or Cobalt.

Unvote vote Sir Bayer
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: SirBayer on November 11, 2009, 10:16:48 pm
Interesting. Now if his scumbuddy votes for me, we don't end up lynching anyone. How ideal for scum.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 11, 2009, 10:34:21 pm
Quote from: SirBayer
And I suppose that means I should point an FoS at Org, who also appears to have bandwagoned... maybe.

And... this means nothing to you? So I decided he wasn't as interesting a target, because he wasn't even talking then. At all. So what was the point in bothering him? I pointed that out to someone else already.

And I already answered the question of using other people's arguments. I don't feel the need to repeat myself.
"Who also appears to have bandwagoned... maybe."
It's hardly a 'maybe'. He jumped on after I did. I prevented an observant scum from delaying the day, Org just attempted to look pro-town.
I'm not sure why you attacked me there when Org was the most suspicious of the lot. The only answer I can come up with is that Org is your scumbuddy and you didn't feel like distancing/bussing him at the time.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: SirBayer on November 11, 2009, 10:51:46 pm
So I voted you... for a moment, when no one else had voted you, when there was no point but to put on pressure. That's a legit strategy, not a scumtell. Furthermore, I've explained why I didn't bother with Org. Again, I don't feel like repeating myself.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: dakarian on November 11, 2009, 11:05:50 pm
Current Vote Count:
Org[3]: Vector, Tehstefan, SirBayer
SirBayer[2]: Apostolic Nihilist, Org
Apostolic Nihilist[1]: CobaltKobold

Not Voting: Laetificus

Deadline: midnight, tonight EST
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: SirBayer on November 11, 2009, 11:39:15 pm
Second point: AN and Org are probably scumbuddies, thinking on it. All they need is to convince a third person I'm a suspect, and then Org doesn't get lynched.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 11, 2009, 11:48:14 pm
Org is guilty of the same thing I am, (even moreso, in fact);
Admitting to being scum?
I suggest you look through the context once again.
We're talking about 'bandwagoning' here.

To Bayer: I understand your reasoning, sort of. All of your actions can be explained and (sort of) make sense, assuming you're town. But the actions you're taking look all the more reasonable if we assume you're scum.
"Org didn't seem like a decent target."
vs.
"Org is actually my scumbuddy."
Org was lurking! You deal with lurkers by drawing them out, not by focusing on others... unless you want them to remain unnoticed.

PPE: What. Do you think I'd honestly be trying to save Org if he were my scumbuddy? I might, but I wouldn't be obvious about it. Most of all, though, I'd probably try to get the person who started the bandwagon lynched. See: BYOR Mafia.
If I can discredit their argument then I can save my scumbuddy.
I'm not doing that right now because all of the arguments against Org are completely valid.
Org is acting extremely scummy; I'm convinced he's scum.
I'm pressuring others right now to find his partner.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 1 A look to the past.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 11, 2009, 11:55:42 pm
all of the arguments against Org are completely valid.
Org is acting extremely scummy; I'm convinced he's scum.
I'm pressuring others right now to find his partner.
If you think he's scum why aren't you voting for him?

There're...five minutes left in the day.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: SirBayer on November 11, 2009, 11:57:52 pm
You might well be retarded scum and trying to cover your backside. If you're so sure Org's scum, then help me lynch him instead of diverting attention to me. If he's not scum, you can lynch me tomorrow. Deal?

Fake-edit: CK, dangit, jumping in front of me
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 11, 2009, 11:58:21 pm
...What?
I didn't even notice the deadline.
Unvote.
Vote Org.
I thought it ended in an hour from now?
Gah, timezones.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: SirBayer on November 12, 2009, 12:00:22 am
That's more like it.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 12, 2009, 12:13:51 am
...might be screwed up with DST.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 3 Broken Peace
Post by: dakarian on November 12, 2009, 12:32:50 am
Current Vote Count:
Org[4]: Vector, Tehstefan, SirBayer, Apostolic Nihilist
SirBayer[1]: Org
Apostolic Nihilist[1]: CobaltKobold

Not Voting: Laetificus


"How's the investigation coming along, Dakarian"

"I'm starting to understand what's going on, but I don't think want to be right about it."

"Well.. go on."

"Well, it looks like they started turning on each other.  Whether it's through paranoia or the lack of food, they..just started killing each other."

"That's horrible.  But, the deaths on many of them are by hypothermia, so I guess they were at least trying to get some help."

"No.. I don't think so."

"Why not?"

"First off, the folks all vote sheets that determined who was sent out never had anyone vote for themselves.  You always get someone who's willing to be the hero.  None of the were volunteers.  For another thing, the bodies were found just outside the cabin: the chosen never even tried to go for help."

"No..then that means."

"Yup.  The votes were to see who would die."

"I... that's just sick, Dakarian." 

"Wait..what about the others?  The ones with physical damage.  You guys said that some of the people were trying to kill the others personally.  Could the events be related?"

"We already are ahead of you, but we're not done looking it over.  We know, at least, that the first two people that were frozen to death had no DNA on any of the ones that were beaten.  If the people in that cabin were trying to hunt down a killer, they were barking up the wrong tree."

"Very well.  I'm almost done over in the cabin.  Keep me informed of any new findings."

"Roger, Dakarian"


Org, Townie, has been lynched.

It is now night.  Those with night roles, send me your choices.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Night 3 Paranoia of the Sick
Post by: dakarian on November 12, 2009, 02:17:34 am
MagmaDeath has now replaced Laetificus
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Night 3 Paranoia of the Sick
Post by: dakarian on November 12, 2009, 07:49:30 am
"One last thing, Dakarian"

"Yes, HQ?"

"Can you check the outside for any bodies we might've missed?"

"Sure, but you're expecting more than what we've found so far?"

"Ye...well.. Dakarian, it's a personal thing.  Perhaps if more people were beaten I'll understand, but...  why did they have to kill so many people just for one murder?"

"...I'll take a look around"

"Thanks, Dakarian."


The day has begun.  Everyone is safe.

Survivors:
Apostolic Nihilist
tehstefan
CobaltKobold
SirBayer
MagmaDeath
Vector

Deadline: Friday, 11am EST
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: Vector on November 12, 2009, 09:04:19 am
MagmaDeath, please tell us what you think about the current situation.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 12, 2009, 09:39:53 am
As an IC in general, you should try to determine who is scum today but you should no-lynch since it's mislynch-and-lose but not lynch-or-lose. Webby can provide more details, I would imagine. I'm just throwing that out there now.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: SirBayer on November 12, 2009, 01:20:28 pm
True. If we kill someone at this point, there're two Mafia left... they kill one person, game's over. However, this does mean that we've got a much better chance of lynching appropriately.

MagmaDeath took over for Laetificious (or however the heck you spell that), right?

Sidenote: Do we think that scum bandwagoned Org or no? AN specifically avoiding doing that seems suspect to me, on a very minor level.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: MagmaDeath on November 12, 2009, 02:39:59 pm
CobaltKobold is the town. He is really the one who is doing most of the scum hunting, and I suspect he will be the next target of the mafia due to this fact.
 
tehstefan is lurking a ton. This could make him scum, or just a stratigic lurker.
 
Apostolic Nililist is another lurker, though it seems most people suspect him of being scum.
 
SirBayer could have bandwagoned onto Org, though I suspect he actually though Org was Scum.
 
Vector on the other hand is Scum. He would have died a while ago if he was not. He is experienced enough to realise that by not killing anyone, he would get rid of most of the suspision upon him. He will probably defend himself by saying the "Docter" which may or may not exist protected him, which I see as rather unlikely. We may not even have a docter, and the scum might just be using a non-existent one to clear themselves of suspision. If we did have a docter, they probaby would have protected CobaltKobold instead of Vector, especialy after Apostolic Nililst came out and said he was the most Pro-Town of all of us.
 
And yes I did replace Laetificious.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: Vector on November 12, 2009, 03:09:44 pm
Hi there, Magma-man.  You seem to be pretty shaken that I'm not dead yet.  Also, nice OMGUS, scumboy.  I'm glad to see that you're trying to get a townie lynched at mylo.

Vector on the other hand is Scum. He would have died a while ago if he was not. He is experienced enough to realise that by not killing anyone, he would get rid of most of the suspision upon him. He will probably defend himself by saying the "Docter" which may or may not exist protected him, which I see as rather unlikely. We may not even have a docter, and the scum might just be using a non-existent one to clear themselves of suspision. If we did have a docter, they probaby would have protected CobaltKobold instead of Vector, especialy after Apostolic Nililst came out and said he was the most Pro-Town of all of us.

That's an interesting argument, but there's some things you seem to have not quite picked up on.  First off, "let's kill Vector because he's still alive" is really shitty reasoning, unless by Vector you mean Webadict.  Last time I checked, I have more of a reputation for lynching confirmed townies than I do for being particularly good at Mafia.

Further, what you're telling me is that I'm experienced enough that the scum would want me dead, but the doctor wouldn't want to protect me.  That's fairly illogical, unless the doctor hates me for some reason... and I can't think of anything in particular I've done, other than bitching at Apostolic Nihilist a lot.

Then there's the thing about protecting CobaltKobold.  As you say, "Most people suspect Apostolic Nihilist is scum."  Apostolic Nihilist is the one who came out and declared CobaltKobold super-townish.  The theoretical doctor's got to be a total moron if he's protecting CobaltKobold based mostly on the words of a scumbucket.  Now, I'm not saying that a doctor would or wouldn't protect me--frankly, I don't know.  I'm just saying that your reasoning is so full of holes it could be used as a whiffle ball.

Finally... how would forgoing a nightkill clear me of suspicion?  Wouldn't that just mean I was really, really stupid scum?


Can you point to anything I've done, other than not being a corpse?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: MagmaDeath on November 12, 2009, 04:38:26 pm
The simple fact that you are alive really makes you likely to be scum. You either are extremely lucky about the theoretical doctor, or you are scum. Apostolic Nililist is probably not Scum, all we really have against him is the fact that he was lurking.
Right, so I figure I'll try analyzing everyone since I just realized I haven't been contributing much in this mafia. I've organized them into priorities, roughly.

Vector - He's helpful and furthermore acting extremely pro-town. This is hardly good, as most people have stopped suspecting him. If he's scum, we're in a bad situation. A really bad situation, in fact. I'm not picking up any scumtells, but we need to watch him. If he isn't dead in a few days, we need to start suspecting him a lot more. He should be one of the scum's first targets.

Laetificus - He's somewhat helpful, but he's not pressing people much. His latest jab at tehstefan was his only such in the game. At the very least, he's not active lurking and most of his posts have content.

CobaltKobold - There is little to say -- he's active and pressing people. He probably has the most posts in this thread, actually, and since he's a new player I sort of doubt he's scum. Most scum would be hesitant to put themselves in the spotlight by making so many posts as they figure the more posts they make, the more people can analyze.

RedWarrior0 - Mostly silent. He seems like he's trying to slide under the radar, but it could just be his lack of posts. At the very least, the posts he makes do contain content, most of the time.

SirBayer - Bragging about how dangerous he'd be as scum?... er, anyways. He seems to not like asking questions and is indeed trying to stop or at least avoid them. He's acting suspicious. It's similar to how I acted when I was extremely new and town, so it could just be that. Either way, he's not helping town much as it stands.

tehstefan - He's out of town, so it's a bit difficult to question him. He's posting a decent amount, but he's levying no hefty suspicions. Altogether he seems to be a bit wishy-washy, but he seems to be improved from Beginner's Mafia 3, which is more than I can say about myself.

Org - Org is Org. Lurk. Lurk. Maybe an active lurk here and there. This means he's a great scum, but it also means he's really not dangerous at all. As long as we aren't stuck with him at Lylo, we can deal with him. At the very least though, we should try and stir him up, which is what I was trying to do earlier. He's also an expert at evading questions it would seem.
Org, tell me: Does SirBayer strike you as particularly scummy? He doesn't seem to care much for questions, which is mostly what this game is based around at this stage. He's trying to reassure us that he's town by reassuring himself that he's answering 'completely honestly'.
He was also grasping at straws to implicate me earlier, though I'm not sure why -- faulty reasoning is often present in scum's accusations.
His analyses seems quite accurate for me.
I am not retracting my vote.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: SirBayer on November 12, 2009, 07:17:15 pm
I tend to agree with Panda here (although that may be just because I have an awful lot of trust in him).

I'm sorry for not making a more fleshy post, but today's been what you might call "a day." I may have to post substantially later than I'd like.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: tehstefan on November 12, 2009, 08:11:34 pm
I'm not quite sure I agree with MagmaDeath's logic, but I can't deny that you being alive is suspicious. Right now I'm going to vote
 
No Lynch

Because it gives us a higher chance that we're going to lynch scum, but I'm highly suspicious of you still being alive here. Especially with all the attention you've grabbed, you should be a mafia target.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: MagmaDeath on November 12, 2009, 09:09:57 pm
Let me try to make my logic a bit clearer.
Vector is alive
With all the attention he has been getting, and his "Scumhunting", he should have been targeted.
He either was luckily protected by a doctor,
or He could have chosen not to kill so he could claim that he was protected.
His scumbuddy could roleclaim doctor later, and get protected from that as well.
There could still be a doctor who "Got lucky" on the first day, then "Got lucky" again yesterday but I find that rather unlikely.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 12, 2009, 09:40:24 pm
Magma, Vector is a useful townie.
The only reason the Mafia would leave him alive would be if they thought they could convince town to lynch him.
I want to know if Vector is town or scum, but drawing attention to him is not the way to do it. If he continues being pro-town and no one is accusing him AND he isn't nightkilled, then yeah, he's definitely scum.
If town is conflicted and people are voting for him, he'll be left alive just for the WIFOM potential.
Right now you aren't helping things by spreading around WIFOM based around who the mafia targeted.

There's a good deal to be found, sometimes, but more often their targets are designed JUST to make us ask these questions that'll get us stuck in an endless loop of logic.
"Vector isn't dead and thus is mafia... unless that's what they want us to think!"
This is (mylo?), and we seriously can't have this sort of stuff messing with us.
People's judgment can easily be compromised and a mislynch at this stage will lose the game for us.

Vote No Lynch.
(At least statistically, our chances of hitting scum are higher.)
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: SirBayer on November 12, 2009, 11:41:29 pm
I'll go ahead and hammer the Nolynch. Hopefully everything will go well.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: dakarian on November 12, 2009, 11:56:29 pm
Current Vote Count:

MagmaDeath[1]: Vector
Vector[1]: MagmaDeath
No Lynch[3]: tehstefan, Apostolic Nihilist, SirBayer

Not Voting: CobaltKobold

Request to end day will require:

one more voting No lynch, 4 requests and no objections

OR

All presently voting for anything to request with no objections.


Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: Vector on November 12, 2009, 11:58:56 pm
Let me try to make my logic a bit clearer.
Vector is alive

With you on that one.

With all the attention he has been getting, and his "Scumhunting", he should have been targeted.

Not so much.

Take a look at Webadict in BM1.  We never targeted him.  We didn't do anything with him, even when he tried to eat me alive D2.  Why?  We thought he'd be the prime target for doctor protection, so we always went after the lower-level people.  Your logic is too black and white for this sort of game.

There could still be a doctor who "Got lucky" on the first day, then "Got lucky" again yesterday but I find that rather unlikely.

Becauuuuuuuuuse....

The simple fact that you are alive really makes you likely to be scum. You either are extremely lucky about the theoretical doctor, or you are scum. Apostolic Nililist is probably not Scum, all we really have against him is the fact that he was lurking.

ALL YOU HAVE AGAINST ME IS THAT I'M NOT DEAD.  BREATHING IS NOT IN FACT A SCUMTELL, DUMBASS.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Interesting.  Let's think about this a minute.

Your counterpart goes lurkylurkylurky and occasionally posts stuff.  Okay.  Now, what do you do?  You show up.  You rip posts from Apostolic Nihilist, and that's it... even though most people think he's scum.  No one else's judgment, really.  No further analyses.  Just "Hm, I guess I'll follow Apostolic Nihilist!  He looks like a smart guy."

"As such, I'll try to convince the town to lynch Vector at mylo.  Because I, too, want to be a smart guy."

Let's look at this.

OMGUS
Buddying/"emotional coordination"
Attacking players with no/little evidence
Lurking (Laetificus)
Pushing lynches at mylo
Using evidence incompletely to engender bias (Apost attacks SirBayer heavily; says he's scum.  Etc.  Didn't like that bit, did you?  Afraid of losing your scumbuddy?)
Lack of scumhunting (Laetificus)
Spreading WIFOM everywhere


It's a scumtell bargain sale! 

Wake up and smell the cypress.  You die tomorrow.



To everyone else, I ask that you consider what I've said.  I don't really feel that I can say any more, though if I can answer any questions or clarify any points of my argument, please let me know.

For now, however, unvote.

NoLynch.
Early day end.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: tehstefan on November 13, 2009, 12:04:37 am
Yeah.

I vote to End day early

Hopefully that will mean, of course, that my absence from friday to at least sunday will not be as keenly felt. Warning you all.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 13, 2009, 12:09:49 am
Magma, Vector is a useful townie.
The only reason the Mafia would leave him alive would be if they thought they could convince town to lynch him.
Oh gods stop buddying on me Apostolic Nihilist. All of your arguments apply equally well to Vector as to me except that you decided to go "Hey let's get on this newer CK's side".

What do you have for me? "CK is scumhunting and being extremely protown. Therefore he is town."
what do you have against Vector? "Vector is scumhunting and being extremely protown. Therefore he is scum."

I have been after you all game, Apostolic Nihilist. You are digging your grave.

Object to day ending
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 13, 2009, 12:11:52 am
I mean, I almost didn't get to speak. What the hell, town.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: SirBayer on November 13, 2009, 12:35:25 am
Sorry. We have a strategy, but I guess you don't like it.

Early day ending if possible.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: MagmaDeath on November 13, 2009, 12:40:24 am
We cannot accomplish anything today.
Voting to end the day early.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 13, 2009, 12:43:52 am
Okay, calling it as Magmadeath and AN...you can ALWAYS accomplish something on a day.

AN's reasoning is scummy as hell, since he's using the same reasoning on myself and vector, and reaching opposite conclusions.

But, in case I die in the night, I want this in the thread first, as there's no medium
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: Vector on November 13, 2009, 12:53:19 am
Hey, you objected.  We aren't ending the day, so you've got time to talk until the official deadline.

And yeah, I'd like to hear what AN has to say about this.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 13, 2009, 12:59:47 am
Magma, Vector is a useful townie.
The only reason the Mafia would leave him alive would be if they thought they could convince town to lynch him.
Oh gods stop buddying on me Apostolic Nihilist. All of your arguments apply equally well to Vector as to me except that you decided to go "Hey let's get on this newer CK's side".

What do you have for me? "CK is scumhunting and being extremely protown. Therefore he is town."
what do you have against Vector? "Vector is scumhunting and being extremely protown. Therefore he is scum."

I have been after you all game, Apostolic Nihilist. You are digging your grave.

Object to day ending
There are a few reasons why I suspect Vector more than you.
1. Vector is acting asshole-ish. Generally this does not appeal to me (I'm quite aware it's a null tell, but maaan, it really feels like a scumtell).
2. Your suspicions were similar to mine, for the most part. I find it hard to attack someone who has similar views to myself.
Was it an error not to attack you?
Yes, it was. I was predisposed with attacking Vector because his prose just seems more scumlike to me.
All things considered, it is strange that you're still alive; as strange as it is that Vector is.

I'm not infallible and by no means are my accusations always correct. I just have a strong feeling against Vector, and it's a feeling I'm not getting off you.

That's shoddy reasoning, exceptionally so, but it's all I can offer.

My reason for attacking Vector: his posts were coming across as needlessly harassing.
He wasn't just scum hunting, he was assaulting.
As much as aggressiveness may be a scumtell, people who act so extremely seem that much more suspicious to me.
To a decent town player, aggressiveness should come somewhat naturally. It shouldn't be completely forced.
It's feeling forced, in Vector's case. He doesn't usually act like that.

...it's pathetic when town's best arguments devolve into attacking players who are being too helpful.
I think whoever dies tonight will effectively decide the scum for this game.
By all accounts, scum are going to target the player who's going to be the largest nuisance for them during Lylo.
They're going to target someone whose votes aren't easily malleable, someone who is trained on another person.

The more we talk about our suspicions about who's going to be lynched before Lylo and why, though, the more WIFOM we're inevitably letting scum stuff down our throats.
It happened in BM3. We started to posit who scum would kill; they didn't kill who I expected and thus I assumed that webadict was cleared.
The problem, of course, is that he knew precisely what I was thinking.
Posting, thinking, laying out scenarios: these are bad things to do today, as scum can read everything we post.
They can use it to their advantage tonight.
I think a silent end to today is best.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: MagmaDeath on November 13, 2009, 01:15:23 am
What else could we do today? We could spend more time arguing, but that really wont do much good.
I suspect I am going to be killed tonight. Therefore I will say this:
I feel that CobaltKobold is most likely town.
Vector is most likely scum.

Now, its time to end this day so I am Unvoteing
And voting for NoLynch
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Night 4 Peace be on your Sword
Post by: dakarian on November 13, 2009, 09:22:51 am
Current Vote Count:

No Lynch[5]: tehstefan, Apostolic Nihilist, SirBayer, Vector, MagmaDeath
Apostolic Nihilist[1]: CobaltKobold


End[5]: Vector, tehstefan, SirBayer, Magmadeeath, Apostolic Nihilist

Objection[1]:Cobalt

Note: Objections don't autofail a request.  Instead, they force more reqests than normal.

i.e. with one objection, I would need the rest of the town to request to end day.


Objection overruled by the town.  The day has ended.

There was no lynch.

It is now night.  Those with night roles, send me your choices.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Night 4 Peace be on your sword
Post by: dakarian on November 13, 2009, 08:30:58 pm

The killings started up again here, Dakarian thought once he entered the room.  ToD from the bodies showed a lapse between the first set of deaths and the second set.  Whatever caused the peace ended in this room and it ended bloody.  Red 'paint' covered the walls, the chair and desk, the bed, even the inside door.  It was a fight, a hard one, and, by the evidence, with only one winner.

The CobaltKobold's body wasn't found in the room, however.  Someone or ones threw the body outside afterwards. 

At least the folks in HQ can know that there really was a killer among the group.


CobaltKobold, Townie, has been killed in the night.

It is now Day.


Survivors
Apostolic Nihilist
tehstefan
SirBayer
MagmaDeath
Vector

Deadline: Tuesday, 17th 11am EST
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 13, 2009, 09:37:52 pm
INCONCEIVABLE! *ded* p.s. you have yet to link me to deadchat.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: webadict on November 13, 2009, 09:40:34 pm
Magma, Vector is a useful townie.
The only reason the Mafia would leave him alive would be if they thought they could convince town to lynch him.
I want to know if Vector is town or scum, but drawing attention to him is not the way to do it. If he continues being pro-town and no one is accusing him AND he isn't nightkilled, then yeah, he's definitely scum.
If town is conflicted and people are voting for him, he'll be left alive just for the WIFOM potential.
Right now you aren't helping things by spreading around WIFOM based around who the mafia targeted.

There's a good deal to be found, sometimes, but more often their targets are designed JUST to make us ask these questions that'll get us stuck in an endless loop of logic.
"Vector isn't dead and thus is mafia... unless that's what they want us to think!"
This is (mylo?), and we seriously can't have this sort of stuff messing with us.
People's judgment can easily be compromised and a mislynch at this stage will lose the game for us.

Vote No Lynch.
(At least statistically, our chances of hitting scum are higher.)
Just be careful of this statement. You're doubting yourself, which is a bad thing.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: Vector on November 13, 2009, 10:14:35 pm
MagmaDeath, as promised.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: MagmaDeath on November 13, 2009, 10:16:44 pm
Well, I laid out my reasons yesterday, so still voting Vector.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: Vector on November 13, 2009, 10:18:43 pm
I suspect I am going to be killed tonight.

LeGasp!  You're not dead.  You must be scum!
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: MagmaDeath on November 13, 2009, 10:21:56 pm
I suspect I am going to be killed tonight.

LeGasp!  You're not dead.  You must be scum!
Sure...
Keep telling people that,
 Scum.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: SirBayer on November 13, 2009, 11:12:22 pm
I'll vote in a moment, after examining the last little bit again.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: SirBayer on November 13, 2009, 11:20:25 pm
Mmkay. Magmadeath, you're scum.

Why, you ask?

Well, you put into quotes the "doctor." Supposed doctor. I think there's a doctor. Nobody's claimed cop, and nobody's randomly yelled about scum who flipped cop. We still have a power-role, and I think it's a doctor. I think you know that it's a doctor, and I think you're irritated you haven't been able to get kills. Well, not you. Laetificious would have been the angry one. But anyway, I think there's some claim to the idea that Vector should be dead... but isn't. Clever redirect by scum - namely, Magma.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 14, 2009, 01:42:58 am
This is Lylo, right?
I suppose I'll claim, then.
I'm the Doctor.
N1 I protected SirBayer. There was no nightkill. N2 I protected CobaltKobold; Redwarrior died. N3 I kept on CobaltKobold. Once again, there was no nightkill. N4 I protected Vector and CobaltKobold died.

It's important to note that I protected SirBayer N1 because I thought he was the cop -- apparently, so did the scum.
Cops usually avoid lynching without evidence, don't want to ask questions, etc. That's what I saw Bayer doing, so I protected him.

From there, I had to choose between Vector and CK. I chose CK: He was the more passive of the two and furthermore he was less abrasive. It seemed like he was a more likely mafia target -- Vector was stirring up all sorts of heat.

This means that scum was indeed going after the 'best' players. This also means that CobaltKobold was effectively confirmed D4 . I couldn't say anything, but I did my best to protect him. Looks like this was a mistake.
He wasn't drawing much heat and thus became a better target.
Last night I protected Vector instead of CK (clearly a mistake); I thought scum would hit Vector to spread WIFOM throughout the town.
I'm quite surprised they didn't take him out, actually, but I think I know why:
Either they needed him as a fallback lynch, or Vector is scum, too.

Yesterday, I'll admit, I didn't find Magma particularly scummy; he was just 'there'. He agreed with the no-lynch but he didn't try to push a quick end to the day. Altogether, he's been acting remarkably town-like, but it's only in moderation.
I wasn't noticing this as much back when it was Laetificus, but recently Magma's words have been more subtly manipulative.
"There isn't much more we can do today," sounds reasonable, and for the most part it is, but it closes off our options.
We shouldn't ever stop thinking. Thought is our greatest weapon, our only weapon.


With CobaltKobold dead, I can say with almost 100% certainty that Magma is scum. This is what I wanted to say yesterday, but I held it in.
Look at who CobaltKobold was pointing toward before his death: me.
Coincidentally, Magma predicted that CobaltKobold was town, moments before his death.
Do you know why? Because Magma knew that CobaltKobold was town... because he's scum.

Calling out a townie, agreeing with them, and most of all, saying that they're town -- these all build trust.
After they actually flip town, at first glance you might be convinced that Magma is more town-like.
"That guy predicted that CK would be town! He was right! Maan, we should listen to him!"
It sounds ridiculous, but it's a common strategy by newbie scum.
Looking at the way things went though, seems like that backfired on him.

I'm don't want to start combing through for scumteams just yet. MagmaDeath is scum.
I'm leaning toward Vector right now, but I seriously don't know at this point.
Vector would've been a better target for the nightkill, but it's possible they predicted that and hit Cobalt instead.

I just seriously hope that my reasoning isn't being manipulated by !!clever scum!! again like in BM3.
If everyone acted rationally, Magma should be mafia.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: dakarian on November 14, 2009, 01:59:43 am
Current Vote Count:
MagmaDeath: Vector, SirBayer, Apostolic Nihlist
Vector: MagmaDeath

Not Voting: tehstefan

Over 50% of town in agreement. 

Request to end day will require 3 requests with 0 objections.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: MagmaDeath on November 14, 2009, 03:29:57 am
Well, to start this off, I am the true doctor.
I was interested to know who would try to claim doctor and therefore was going to wait for everyone else to post before reveling myself. Now, I dont have to.
Unvote
Apostolic Nihilist is Scum.

N1,  Laetificus protected CobaltKobold. There was no Nightkill

N2, Laetificus Protected Apostolic Nihilist, RedWarrior0 Died.

N3, I choose between Vector and CobaltKobold to protect, And I choose CobaltKobold because Vector probably would have been targeted by then.

N4, I choose CobaltKobold again. However, My talk about the theroetical Doctor must have made the mafia suspecious of me. The Mafia must have a Role Blocker, Otherwise CobaltKobold would have not died.

I am leaning towards an Apostolic Nihilist and Vector scumteam, They were laying suspision onto each other, while voting for other players.

Mmkay. Magmadeath, you're scum.

Why, you ask?

Well, you put into quotes the "doctor." Supposed doctor. I think there's a doctor. Nobody's claimed cop, and nobody's randomly yelled about scum who flipped cop. We still have a power-role, and I think it's a doctor. I think you know that it's a doctor, and I think you're irritated you haven't been able to get kills. Well, not you. Laetificious would have been the angry one. But anyway, I think there's some claim to the idea that Vector should be dead... but isn't. Clever redirect by scum - namely, Magma.
There was a doctor,  I knew there was a doctor. Because I WAS the doctor. Vector should have been dead. I never protected him, and that means the mafia never targeted him.

Now for AN's post.
With CobaltKobold dead, I can say with almost 100% certainty that Magma is scum. This is what I wanted to say yesterday, but I held it in.
Look at who CobaltKobold was pointing toward before his death: me.
Coincidentally, Magma predicted that CobaltKobold was town, moments before his death.
Do you know why? Because Magma knew that CobaltKobold was town... because he's scum.
It is because when I protected him, No one died. Me coming out and saying this though probably doomed him, as the mafia roleblocker must have roleblocked me so I could not have save him.
Calling out a townie, agreeing with them, and most of all, saying that they're town -- these all build trust.
After they actually flip town, at first glance you might be convinced that Magma is more town-like.
"That guy predicted that CK would be town! He was right! Maan, we should listen to him!"
It sounds ridiculous, but it's a common strategy by newbie scum.
Looking at the way things went though, seems like that backfired on him.
I called him out because I honestly expected to die that night. I was trying to make sure he had some proof He was town, so you two couldn't just push the whole town into lynching him. But apparently you and your scumbuddy thought up this clever plan to get the town to lynch me, and eliminate the one who was right to suspect you in the first place. Since you have a role blocker, I'm just another townie to you since you identified me.
I just seriously hope that my reasoning isn't being manipulated by !!clever scum!! again like in BM3.
Now that was a nice touch, but really You are Scum
tehstefan and SirBayer, Please don't let them manipulate you into lynching me, like they did with Org.
Vector and Apostolic Nihilist are Scum. That is the truth.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: SirBayer on November 14, 2009, 12:12:06 pm
Magma, sorry. I am afraid I believe AN. His story makes more sense to me. I vote for day shortening, I think we have scum.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: dakarian on November 14, 2009, 02:46:48 pm
1 request for a day shortening requested.

2 more requests with no objections are required to shorten day.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 14, 2009, 06:26:33 pm
Magma, your acts of desperation only prove your guilt.
Counter-claiming doctor? Seriously?

Your argument is this:
"Vector and AN are the scumteam because they found each other suspicious sometimes."

We're supposed to believe:
You buddied with CobaltKobold to protect him but instead you simply drew attention to him.
Furthermore, there's been no evidence that there's even a mafia roleblocker in this game.
You didn't protect CobaltKobold last night. You aren't even the doctor.
You're desperate scum grasping for straws.

I don't think we should be too hasty in ending the day though, SirBayer. Times like these are essential.
We should be able to figure out Magma's scumbuddy by how others react -- shortening the day deprives us of this.
One thing scum absolutely hate are knowing they're about to be lynched.

The more uncomfortable you can make someone, the more likely they are to slip up.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: Vector on November 14, 2009, 07:14:40 pm
All right.  We've got two doctor claims, so at least one must be fake.  Therefore:

1. MagmaDeath, now that you've decided AN is scum, do you have any of your own reasoning to share?  One of the main reasons why I've been thinking you're a scumbucket is because you piggyback on others' thoughts all the time.  If you have some reasons why you think AN and I are scum other than "I say!  That one says he's the doctor and that one's not dead," I'd like to hear them.

2. Apostolic Nihilist, why are you marking CobaltKobold confirmed D4?  Might the scum not have chosen a no-NK?  It seems that you know a bit more than you should...

3.
Altogether, he's been acting remarkably town-like, but it's only in moderation.

You say this after visiting Magma's Scumtell Bargain Sale yesterday?  I'm shocked.  You're being weaselly and passive.

4.
I am leaning towards an Apostolic Nihilist and Vector scumteam, They were laying suspision onto each other, while voting for other players.

Just a sidenote--your reasoning is full of shit (at least with respect to me.  I'm not saying anything for AN).  Did you not notice that I've constantly been questioning and yelling at people I wasn't voting for?  That doesn't mean I'm scumbuddies with everyone I happen to have not voted.




Spoiler: Crazy theory (click to show/hide)



I'll admit that the theory's a bit crazy, and maybe when I come back to it tomorrow or on Monday I'll have decided it's too much of a reach.

That said, though, whether or not MagmaDeath and Apostolic Nihilist are the scumteam, MagmaDeath is scum.  He dies today.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: MagmaDeath on November 14, 2009, 09:55:51 pm
Well.
 
All right.  We've got two doctor claims, so at least one must be fake.  Therefore:

1. MagmaDeath, now that you've decided AN is scum, do you have any of your own reasoning to share?  One of the main reasons why I've been thinking you're a scumbucket is because you piggyback on others' thoughts all the time.  If you have some reasons why you think AN and I are scum other than "I say!  That one says he's the doctor and that one's not dead," I'd like to hear them.
AN is scum, because he claimed doctor. I know he is not the doctor and therefore must either be an extremely stupid townie, Or scum.
 Vector on the other hand I suspect of being Scum.  The fact he was never  targeted by the mafia makes him either someone they want to get lynched.

4.
I am leaning towards an Apostolic Nihilist and Vector scumteam, They were laying suspision onto each other, while voting for other players.

Just a sidenote--your reasoning is full of shit (at least with respect to me.  I'm not saying anything for AN).  Did you not notice that I've constantly been questioning and yelling at people I wasn't voting for?  That doesn't mean I'm scumbuddies with everyone I happen to have not voted.

Well, The Mafia could have been setting you up to be lynched, Or you are scum. AN is scum, So I'm sticking you two together.


Spoiler: Crazy theory (click to show/hide)
Huh, Why don't we lynch AN today, Since he is definetly Scum.
That said, though, whether or not MagmaDeath and Apostolic Nihilist are the scumteam, MagmaDeath is scum.  He dies today.

I am not Scum and if I get lynched, that's the game. The Mafia win.
Vector Could be scum.
AN is Scum, so lynch him, and we will not lose.


Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: MagmaDeath on November 14, 2009, 09:58:39 pm
Also, I object To the day ending early, We'll need tehstefan to actually get rid of some Scum.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 4 Who are the true murderers?
Post by: dakarian on November 14, 2009, 10:11:04 pm
1 Objection heard.  It will now require 4 requests to end day AND 4 votes on the same person in order to shorten or end the day.

Deadline: Tuesday, 11am EST.

Also:
Yeah.

I vote to End day early

Hopefully that will mean, of course, that my absence from friday to at least sunday will not be as keenly felt. Warning you all.

Plan accordingly.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: Vector on November 15, 2009, 04:05:06 pm
Blargh.  This is a horrible Lylo.

Well.
All right.  We've got two doctor claims, so at least one must be fake.  Therefore:

1. MagmaDeath, now that you've decided AN is scum, do you have any of your own reasoning to share?  One of the main reasons why I've been thinking you're a scumbucket is because you piggyback on others' thoughts all the time.  If you have some reasons why you think AN and I are scum other than "I say!  That one says he's the doctor and that one's not dead," I'd like to hear them.
AN is scum, because he claimed doctor. I know he is not the doctor and therefore must either be an extremely stupid townie, Or scum.
 Vector on the other hand I suspect of being Scum.  The fact he was never  targeted by the mafia makes him either someone they want to get lynched.

This is my problem with you, right there.

You have a purported claim, and you are riding that claim as your entire argument.  "Vector was never targeted by scum, so Vector is scum."  "I am the doctor and AN says he is the doctor, so AN is scum."  There is nothing else you are bringing to the table.  You aren't paying attention to anyone else.

For example...

SirBayer, why do you trust AN's claim so readily, and why are you sitting here BANDWAGONING AT LYLO?  You don't show up and talk unless you can ride a lynch.  What on earth makes you think this is pro-town?

tehstefan, I haven't caught you doing much, but you do tend to sit back a lot (which I've noticed novice scum doing with some frequency).  When you get back, I'd like to hear your opinions, in detail, on this entire situation.


4.
I am leaning towards an Apostolic Nihilist and Vector scumteam, They were laying suspision onto each other, while voting for other players.

Just a sidenote--your reasoning is full of shit (at least with respect to me.  I'm not saying anything for AN).  Did you not notice that I've constantly been questioning and yelling at people I wasn't voting for?  That doesn't mean I'm scumbuddies with everyone I happen to have not voted.

Well, The Mafia could have been setting you up to be lynched, Or you are scum. AN is scum, So I'm sticking you two together.

Because of course SirBayer and tehstefan can't be scum?

I think I'll add "Knows too much about alignments" to our friendly list.  Wow, it's getting pretty long!


I am not Scum and if I get lynched, that's the game. The Mafia win.
Vector Could be scum.
AN is Scum, so lynch him, and we will not lose.

...

And another major scumtell: you're acting like one lynch will win you the game.  Only scum think like that.


Hence:



I'm keeping my vote on you.  It really, really sucks if I'm wrong about you, but I just don't buy this.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: SirBayer on November 15, 2009, 07:17:57 pm
I've been away - sorry. All of Saturday afternoon and most of today (Sunday).

I'm sorry if it seems like bandwagoning, Vector, but I do NOT believe a single word of MagmaDeath's little proposition here. I also don't buy your two-doctor gamble. One of them IS the real doctor, in my opinion, since neither you nor I is. That leaves Tehstefan, AN, and Magma. Magma is pretty clearly scum, Tehstefan is far too absent, and AN has a reasonable claim to doctor-ship. Looking back, I DID drop cop-tells by accident; his statements make sense.

Furthermore, I've never intended to bandwagon. I generally have this thing called "real life" that causes me to have to evaluate things later into the days, after people have started talking. Coincidental but unfortunate. I suppose I also lack proper Mafia mindset, but I'm working on that.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: Vector on November 15, 2009, 07:36:49 pm
Furthermore, I've never intended to bandwagon. I generally have this thing called "real life" that causes me to have to evaluate things later into the days, after people have started talking. Coincidental but unfortunate. I suppose I also lack proper Mafia mindset, but I'm working on that.

Look, I understand about having a life and a schedule and all that.  Not everyone's conditions are as flexible as mine are.

I'm mostly annoyed and worried about you because you buy into others' analysis without questioning whether they are telling the truth.  It's not that you evaluate things later into the days, after people have started talking.  That would involve some posts that indicate you have your own questions about how people are saying things, why people are saying things, your own thoughts, your own opinions.  Like most of the town, you don't put pressure on anyone to see what comes out.


Well, anyway.  Hopefully tehstefan will get out here soon to provide input, and we can move on to D6.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: tehstefan on November 16, 2009, 12:00:28 am
I'm back. I'll have an analyze post coming soon, but man. I'll have to be thinking about this. It may be that I won't post until monday. I'll want to try and put together a good post.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: tehstefan on November 16, 2009, 12:11:34 am
Well, here's part one.

Seems there are two veins of thought right now.

One, AN is the doctor, Magma is scum.

I can't fully say I subscribe to this point of view, but I agree with this view more than the latter. AN gave a good detailed report, but a few parts of it seem to stand out to me. He seemed to contradict himself, saying that he was acting very townlike, but in the next paragraph, says that he thought he was scum from before. Perhaps its the wording, and he meant the kill, prompting me to ask him

Was your quote about him being scum based on the nightkill, or prior experience?

Or, Magma is doctor, and AN is scum.

This whole story rides on a tell, that I don't like. He says that he was role blocked, so they could kill Cobalt. My problem, is that he seems to only suspect this. If my mafia fu is right,  you get a distinct message as the doctor if you are role blocked, and even more so, I believe the mafia would have targeted the doctor far more than they would have targeted Cobalt. Cobalt could be protected, the doctor can't be. So, a safe kill, which brings them to lylo, instead of a risky chance. So, thats what I consider faulty scum reasoning.

I'm not yet ready to vote, we have a whole other day left, even though towns already in agreement, but it'll take some serious work to get you out of this hole Magma.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: MagmaDeath on November 16, 2009, 12:15:30 am
4.
I am leaning towards an Apostolic Nihilist and Vector scumteam, They were laying suspision onto each other, while voting for other players.

Just a sidenote--your reasoning is full of shit (at least with respect to me.  I'm not saying anything for AN).  Did you not notice that I've constantly been questioning and yelling at people I wasn't voting for?  That doesn't mean I'm scumbuddies with everyone I happen to have not voted.

Well, The Mafia could have been setting you up to be lynched, Or you are scum. AN is scum, So I'm sticking you two together.
Because of course SirBayer and tehstefan can't be scum?

I think I'll add "Knows too much about alignments" to our friendly list.  Wow, it's getting pretty long!
They COULD be scum, But I don't suspect them as much as I suspect you. It might just be because you seem way too agressive to me, but I have a bad feeling about you.


I am not Scum and if I get lynched, that's the game. The Mafia win.
Vector Could be scum.
AN is Scum, so lynch him, and we will not lose.

...

And another major scumtell: you're acting like one lynch will win you the game.  Only scum think like that.
No, this lynch won't win us the game, But If you mislynch me, We'll lose.

Hence:

Yeah, Around half of those are also Doctor tell.

I'm keeping my vote on you.  It really, really sucks if I'm wrong about you, but I just don't buy this.
Yes, It does suck that you are wrong.
So go on ahead and lose the game for us.
It seems that I cant change your mind.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: Vector on November 16, 2009, 12:22:08 am
They COULD be scum, But I don't suspect them as much as I suspect you. It might just be because you seem way too agressive to me, but I have a bad feeling about you.

It amuses me that you continue to follow AN's arguments.  You should stop that.

Hence:

Yeah, Around half of those are also Doctor tell.

And the other half are bonafide scumtells.  Congratulations, you managed to find a fakeclaim that fits with your particular behavior.  Way To Go.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: MagmaDeath on November 16, 2009, 12:24:08 am
Well, here's part one.

Seems there are two veins of thought right now.

One, AN is the doctor, Magma is scum.

I can't fully say I subscribe to this point of view, but I agree with this view more than the latter. AN gave a good detailed report, but a few parts of it seem to stand out to me. He seemed to contradict himself, saying that he was acting very townlike, but in the next paragraph, says that he thought he was scum from before. Perhaps its the wording, and he meant the kill, prompting me to ask him

Was your quote about him being scum based on the nightkill, or prior experience?

Or, Magma is doctor, and AN is scum.

This whole story rides on a tell, that I don't like. He says that he was role blocked, so they could kill Cobalt. My problem, is that he seems to only suspect this. If my mafia fu is right,  you get a distinct message as the doctor if you are role blocked, and even more so, I believe the mafia would have targeted the doctor far more than they would have targeted Cobalt. Cobalt could be protected, the doctor can't be. So, a safe kill, which brings them to lylo, instead of a risky chance. So, thats what I consider faulty scum reasoning.

I'm not yet ready to vote, we have a whole other day left, even though towns already in agreement, but it'll take some serious work to get you out of this hole Magma.
Yes, it will.
Apperently Dakarian dosen't give you a messege if you get roleblocked. And why would the mafia kill me when I can be a nice easy lynch for them at lylo? If that risky chance failed would have brought another day of mylo. Since people seem not to want to lynch at mylo, they could try this as many times as they liked.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: dakarian on November 16, 2009, 01:38:02 am
Given this is involving discussion of a game effect that has not been explained.

Doctors receive no message if they are blocked
Mafia receive no message if the target was protected
Cops receive a 'failed' message if they are blocked

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: tehstefan on November 16, 2009, 03:21:54 am
Well, thats what made me think of roleblock. Hrrm. His doctor claim got slightly more feasible, but I still don't buy it.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: MagmaDeath on November 16, 2009, 02:40:31 pm
I wasnt actually sure what happened myself, untill I checked the first page and saw that the mafia could have a roleblocker.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 16, 2009, 05:47:23 pm
Well, here's part one.

Seems there are two veins of thought right now.

One, AN is the doctor, Magma is scum.

I can't fully say I subscribe to this point of view, but I agree with this view more than the latter. AN gave a good detailed report, but a few parts of it seem to stand out to me. He seemed to contradict himself, saying that he was acting very townlike, but in the next paragraph, says that he thought he was scum from before. Perhaps its the wording, and he meant the kill, prompting me to ask him

Was your quote about him being scum based on the nightkill, or prior experience?
It was based on the nightkill. I was going to suggest that MagmaDeath would be scum if CK died, but obviously saying that would let scum NK CK and mess up with my theory.

Now, I know that Magma is scum. He's condemned himself there, but we can still be searching for his scumbuddy.
I don't like the stagnant state that town seems to have gotten itself into: we're mostly in agreement here, but when we hit scum we don't win. We still have another scum to take out after this. I'm likely going to be NKed, there's not much we can do about that; I won't be alive tomorrow to voice my suspicions.

Right now, in order of potential danger:
Vector     {NOT A VOTE}
SirBayer
tehstefan

I'll point out my opinions on people this day:

SirBayer really seems to want this to end, a sentiment I don't much like. More time means more time for scum to slip up, so...

tehstefan's, "it'll take some serious work to get you out of this hole Magma." seems like buddying, but it doesn't make sense for scum to do that, so I really don't understand. Assuming tehstefan is Magma's scumbuddy then this sentence will just implicate him when Magma flips town. It's either spreading WIFOM or it's a genuine observation.

Of course, then there's Vector. He's been attacking MagmaDeath ridiculously hard. It really smacks of bussing, and not of the desperate sort. This is less a 'Vector is suspicious!' as it is 'Do not trust anything he says tomorrow.'
Just... make sure you don't think Vector's cleared after Magma flips scum.
That's the only advice I can really give at this point.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: tehstefan on November 16, 2009, 06:30:15 pm
Part two!

This is more of a trying to figure out who to vote for next.

there are a few people.

Vector
AN
SirBayer

Vector so far is a null. His being alive is a severe tell, but from what he's been doing, he seems to be a rather active town, and been more helpful than most other people. Therefore null tell. I find it highly suspect that he would be so aggressive, and mafia, especially since he's experienced.

AN is more scummy. He tends to act rather lurky, and as Vector brings up quite often, tends to bandwagon on people, or target lurkers. However, he's not been that bad at all, and is only in light of circumstances.

SirBayer to me, hasn't done enough to really set him out. Sure, he's given quite a few scum tells, but he's not been really active enough to get a decent read on, at least to me. Which, of course, smacks of scum. How things fall tomorrow will decide things, but it should be interesting.

Also, AN, if Magmadeath flips town, the games over, so your point's kind of null.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: SirBayer on November 17, 2009, 12:16:17 am
I'm impatient. Constantly true. *shrug* I haven't played enough for you guys to know that, though, so not much I can say about that.

Tehstefan, there are TWO scum. Do not try to make us make that mistake, scumbucket.

As I was saying, I'm impatient, and I want to confirm that we've ended this appropriately. We're almost sure we have scum, but we don't know positively until the man's dead. So I'm excited to see. Especially if he turns out to be a Mafia roleblocker - I don't think they have one, though.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: MagmaDeath on November 17, 2009, 01:15:21 am
The thing is, Since I was roleblocked they have to have one.
And once Im lynched and flip town, That's the game.
Is there anything I can do to prevent us from losing?
Not really. AN, Vector and SirBayer seem to be set on lynching me.
So, I give up. Lynch me and we lose, and you seem to want to make us lose.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: tehstefan on November 17, 2009, 11:17:41 am


tehstefan's, "it'll take some serious work to get you out of this hole Magma." seems like buddying, but it doesn't make sense for scum to do that, so I really don't understand. Assuming tehstefan is Magma's scumbuddy then this sentence will just implicate him when Magma flips town. It's either spreading WIFOM or it's a genuine observation.


He says, if he flips town, it implicates me. I was pointing out that if he flips town, the games over because we lose.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: dakarian on November 17, 2009, 12:04:24 pm


"Hey, Dakarian. Come in."

Dakarian leans back against the front door of the cabin, his ear to the walky-talky.

Webadict's voice comes from the other end "Any luck up in the cabin?"

The Sargent sighs before responding, "Nothing.  We have everything we can take from the scene now so you're free to make do with it as you wish."

After a little more smalltalk, Dakarian finishes his final communication with the cabin's owner.  He's sure that Webadict won't have any wish to keep the cabin after all of this.  The event is just made so much worse since it may just go unsolved.  7 dead and two missing, possibly the killers.  They left a clear sign of how they escaped in the snow: by air.. a helicopter probably.  If they had access to that then this isn't something a small time police force can handle.  He'll send over the information, along with Vector an Apostolic Nihilist's Bio to the feds.

Dakarian has a feeling, though, that he'd be just wasting his time.


The game is over.  Vector and Apostolic Nihilist, mafiosos have won.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: Vector on November 17, 2009, 12:07:04 pm
...

Scumchat (http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/42AYarXtd6ks).

Good game, guys!
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: dakarian on November 17, 2009, 12:22:57 pm
Specialized roles:

Vector: Mafioso
Apostolic Nihilist: RoleBlocker
Laetificus/MagmaDeath: Doctor

Mafia Chat (http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/42AYarXtd6ks)
Dead Chat (http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/FeY38KB2wcJt)


N1:
CobaltKobold Protected
SirBayer Roleblocked
CobaltKobold Killed - Stopped by Protection

N2:
Apostolic Nihilist Protected
SirBayer Roleblocked
RedWarrior0 Killed

N3:
CobaltKobold Protected
Tehstefan RoleBlocked
CobaltKobold Killed - Stopped by Protection

N4:
CobaltKobold Protected - was Blocked
MagmaDeath Blocked
CobaltKobold Killed
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: MagmaDeath on November 17, 2009, 12:32:26 pm
Blah...
I knew this, I Knew you two were scum...
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: Vector on November 17, 2009, 12:34:33 pm
Blah...
I knew this, I Knew you two were scum...

Yup, but you couldn't back your accusations up with anything solid--and you were acting scummy as hell--so I ran you over.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: MagmaDeath on November 17, 2009, 12:35:30 pm
Yeah, I really couden't. You were an amazing Scum Vector.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 5 Bloody Friday.
Post by: Rooster on November 17, 2009, 12:40:29 pm
OMG it was Vector and AN all along! The best players and the least likely suspects!
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: MagmaDeath on November 17, 2009, 12:47:09 pm
And that is why I suspected them.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: ToonyMan on November 17, 2009, 02:36:36 pm
Man, I was rooting for you Magma.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: SirBayer on November 17, 2009, 02:48:34 pm
Damn, I was sure you were scum... Well, sorry.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: Vector on November 17, 2009, 03:10:24 pm
You know, there is a reason why I kept yelling at you and telling you not to follow my directions so much >_>

I was hoping you'd pick up on it and start scumhunting, maybe give the town a chance at winning... but when you didn't, I figured I'd just use you as a good lynch-target/peon in the end-game.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 17, 2009, 03:46:12 pm
Well, games over.Guess it's safe to say now: Nice job, doctor, ta least NKwise

Sorry I suspected you.

Vector rises in scumstimation.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: dakarian on November 17, 2009, 03:57:10 pm
A few quick points:

There are three major styles of how the mafia pick their kills.

1. Randomkill: This is done to ensure no one can read their kills to find out who they are. 

2. PR kill: This is when they try to hunt down power roles.  The one that most looks like a town PR will be targetted.  If there's a HINT of a doctor, this will be the primary attack.

3. Threat Kill: Killing the most active and experienced players in order to weaken the town.  It's risky but VERY efffective, especially if the town is relying on a few leaders.

This game is an example of #3.  if you look back, Cobalt was constantly attacking Vector and AN.  That caused the scum to want to off him before the town started to listen.  They used their Roleblock to try to find the doctor.  The risk was that the extra days gave the town more time to hunt and more time for the scum to make mistakes. 

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: RedWarrior0 on November 17, 2009, 03:59:47 pm
BM3 was the ICs, now one of the BM5 ICs and another skilled player. Dak, your setup is rigged.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: dakarian on November 17, 2009, 04:03:16 pm
Flip the story.

The MB5 IC didn't end up the mafia in BM 4.  The BM4 mafioso showed such skill that he became the BM5 Mafia IC. 

As for having Vector and AN as the mafia, blame the randomizer.  It keeps giving me...interesting combinations.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: Leafsnail on November 17, 2009, 04:04:28 pm
They weren't ICs though, were they?  Although they are both pretty good players.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: Vector on November 17, 2009, 04:07:14 pm
Nah, it's impossible to have an IC playing in the game, now.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: Leafsnail on November 17, 2009, 04:09:36 pm
I suppose it ultimately became three good players (pandarsenic was ICing scum) against the town, and webadict's influence just wasn't enough...

So yeah, well done scum.

Incidentally:
Quote
Scum should NEVER ask for a day shortening, dood. ._. Why would you even... ugh.
I can see a lot of RiA coming from this :P.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: Vector on November 17, 2009, 04:12:19 pm
I suppose it ultimately became three good players (pandarsenic was ICing scum) against the town, and webadict's influence just wasn't enough...

So yeah, well done scum.

Incidentally:
Quote
Scum should NEVER ask for a day shortening, dood. ._. Why would you even... ugh.
I can see a lot of RiA coming from this :P.

I think it hurt a lot that Webadict became computer-less in the middle of the game, and that the town was pretty much left with me "ICing."  Except for the fact that as I told them how to kill me, I was also convincing them to kill each other.

That entire game was an experiment in Refuge in Audacity, to be honest >_>
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: dakarian on November 17, 2009, 04:14:17 pm
Given how much we talk about RiA lately, it's about time it gets used as a natural scum tactic.

That means the game is evolving.  Old tells die and new tells are formed.

*still waiting for the day 3rd vote dies*
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: Leafsnail on November 17, 2009, 04:24:48 pm
OMGUS is pretty much dead.

As for third vote... well, it's easy enough to look back on someone you knew was scum and say "third vote scumtell" (it was me as Envy that triggered it most recently, right?) but it's harder to tell a town 3rd vote (someone has to place the third vote, after all) from a scum 3rd vote ingame...

So, I suppose mafia members could always try to start a bandwagon?  Jump on it later? :P
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: dakarian on November 17, 2009, 04:30:41 pm
When I'm watchful for it, I still spot scum with it.  It's not a "OMG LYNCH!" style scumtell, but when a bandwagon forms and you don't like the target, it's a great tool to make a first strike.

The key is that it's based on scum who aren't leading the town but don't want to look like they are lurking either.  Thus they take slightly longer before getting on a vote for someone, even if they DO have good reasons for it.  They end up at the 3rd vote of a bandwagon due to that.

Even when I'm scum, I find that if I'm not the start of the attack, by the time I'm ready to vote Mr.3rdSpot is right there to say "HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!"
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: tehstefan on November 17, 2009, 04:37:16 pm
Oh man!

I saw that slip, and Vector freaked out about, and I didn't press it. Man! I should have, if I did, I would have gotten you guys! Still, good game!
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: Leafsnail on November 17, 2009, 04:37:53 pm
Quote
When I'm watchful for it, I still spot scum with it.  It's not a "OMG LYNCH!" style scumtell, but when a bandwagon forms and you don't like the target, it's a great tool to make a first strike.
I'm now trying to imagine the alternative where placing the third vote is a lynchable offence.  Of course, remember what would happen when you try to lynch the 3rd voter :P.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 17, 2009, 05:26:41 pm
Two games where I'm considered a Threat with a capital T. Hmm.

wait wait

did I see in that scumchat that I'm an "experienced player"? ;D

And the problem with threat kills is aptly demonstrated by the doctor's pick here-3/4 correct doc picks seems like it should be a record.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: Vector on November 17, 2009, 05:33:22 pm
Two games where I'm considered a Threat with a capital T. Hmm.

wait wait

did I see in that scumchat that I'm an "experienced player"? ;D

And the problem with threat kills is aptly demonstrated by the doctor's pick here-3/4 correct doc picks seems like it should be a record.

You have good social skills.  I am terrified of people with good social skills, when it comes to playing Mafia >_>  As far as I can tell, good social machinery coming in is worth at least 5 games already under your belt as a raw newb.

So yes, "experienced player."
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 17, 2009, 05:54:53 pm
in re that: I think mafia is an absolutely horrid place to learn them, as friendliness is supposed to be a scumtell, you're supposed to scan people for inconsistencies, jump on them when they do.

Also, it was Apostolic Nihilist who was calling me experienced, I think you only called me "dangerous".
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: Vector on November 17, 2009, 06:02:31 pm
in re that: I think mafia is an absolutely horrid place to learn them, as friendliness is supposed to be a scumtell, you're supposed to scan people for inconsistencies, jump on them when they do.

Also, it was Apostolic Nihilist who was calling me experienced, I think you only called me "dangerous".

You'd be surprised.  If you're a person who can't distinguish lies from the truth at all, determine that someone might be trying to manipulate you, or discover the reasons why someone might be being inconsistent (rather than freaking the hell out because there's a couple of inconsistencies in the universe, and you just can't figure out what to do with them), it's absolutely the best place to learn.

Plus, people IRL don't really like a surfeit of friendliness/passivity, either.  I've learned this from quite a bit of experience.

Anyway, it's the only thing I've found that has gotten anywhere near working.  At all.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: Apostolic Nihilist on November 17, 2009, 06:36:42 pm
I actually made quite a few egregious errors that game, but yeah; Vector is an awesome scumbuddy.

I think I'll be opting out of future beginner mafias -- while I'm still a newb, I'm not really a 'beginner'.

Oh, and CobaltKobold is... exceedingly dangerous.

I'm not sure what my scumtells were this round; I think I acted similar to how I usually do as town though.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: dakarian on November 17, 2009, 08:27:59 pm
I wish I could give a deep analysis of everyone's play.  I did that back in BM 2 and people loved it.

However, I don't have the time to really do that.  For that, my apologies.

Instead, I will push my host duties further.  Soon Beginner's Mafia 6 will open for signups.

Note that those who have just finished playing in this game are now free to enter another Beginner's Mafia.  I ask, though, that if you have more than 5 Bay-12 games under your belt (the Karma Thread can show how many you have) then think about how experienced you are before you join.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: webadict on November 17, 2009, 10:53:19 pm
I suppose it ultimately became three good players (pandarsenic was ICing scum) against the town, and webadict's influence just wasn't enough...

So yeah, well done scum.

Incidentally:
Quote
Scum should NEVER ask for a day shortening, dood. ._. Why would you even... ugh.
I can see a lot of RiA coming from this :P.

I think it hurt a lot that Webadict became computer-less in the middle of the game, and that the town was pretty much left with me "ICing."  Except for the fact that as I told them how to kill me, I was also convincing them to kill each other.

That entire game was an experiment in Refuge in Audacity, to be honest >_>
Yeah... if I were playing, I'd've lynched Vector when I could. I mean... really? He was the most experienced player! He pulled my stunt from the game before!
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: tehstefan on November 18, 2009, 12:15:40 am
Heh. I swear, if I've learned one thing from my games, its to lynch the most experienced player no questions asked. I mean, twice? Come on!
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: Pandarsenic on November 18, 2009, 12:21:06 am
Heh. I swear, if I've learned one thing from my games, its to lynch the most experienced player no questions asked. I mean, twice? Come on!

Why do you think my "Webadict is scum if he's alive D3" rule exists?
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: dakarian on November 18, 2009, 08:34:33 am
BYOR:ExKirby  broke that rule Panda :)

Web survived up to D3.  The scum then ganged up on him, complete with forcing him to hammer himself.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 18, 2009, 12:28:27 pm
I think I see why Web is trying to "lose his edge".
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 18, 2009, 01:03:58 pm
I wish I could give a deep analysis of everyone's play.  I did that back in BM 2 and people loved it.
Dakariaaaaaan
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: dakarian on November 18, 2009, 02:28:42 pm
From what I've seen of you Cobalt, you're an insane town player.  Mafioso tend to avoid trying to kill someone over and over since it's easy for the doc to protect them and easy to read even if it works.  That Vector and AN were deadset desperate to kill you proves your ability.

Only thing I can say without doing a deep scan of you is that you need to practice on how to guide the town once you know your target.  After you are sure who you want to lynch, you are no longer talking to the scum target but instead talking to the town on why your lynch is better than others.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 18, 2009, 03:31:22 pm
I figured out my worst mistake in this game while I was in class, actually. The one time I attacked Vector, he grew uneasy, and self-meta'd to get out of it, and I accepted it.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: dakarian on November 18, 2009, 03:32:39 pm
Happens to many.  I call it drinking your own WIFOM.  Not So Beginner Mafia 1 has an epic version of it on the 5th day.

Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: Vector on November 18, 2009, 03:54:36 pm
I figured out my worst mistake in this game while I was in class, actually. The one time I attacked Vector, he grew uneasy, and self-meta'd to get out of it, and I accepted it.

You attacked me multiple times, and I have a bad habit of self-metaing as both town and scum (just check.  I make lots of excuses for myself >_>).

That said, though, I was telling the truth.  I have bitchin' moodswings that apparently make me seem like a completely different person depending on how I'm feeling (mostly dependent on RL situations), so until I stabilize those out meta is going to be rather interesting.

Gigantic paranoid jumpiness is still a bonafide scumtell for me, though.  I'm not jumpy as town.


Any commentary on things I should have done differently, Dakarian?  Not as a deep thing--just if you happened to notice anything during the course of the game.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: dakarian on November 18, 2009, 04:09:51 pm
Be VERY careful when attempting a Threat kill.  Part of the reason why your enemies can't pin you is due to people suspecting that they are scum.  Killing them after they suspect you means they become confirmed as town letting a backtracking townie go back and take what they say in a new light.

Of course, if you had went random, you might've hit the Doctor, and it was the doctor gambit you did which won it in the last day.  Web was almost ruined when he killed the doctor in BM 3 and, thus, couldn't explain why he still lived.
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: Day 2 Eye of the storm
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 07:14:22 am
I think I'd laugh/cry if it turned out to be me that the (alleged) doctor protected.
why is my boyfriend being such a ditz...
Quote from: dakarian
N1:
CobaltKobold Protected
*snicker*
Title: Re: Beginner's Mafia 4: End - Winter Wonderland
Post by: dakarian on December 01, 2009, 09:12:57 am
A pet theory of mine, your hands and your subconscious already know what's really going on in every game you play.

It's our conscious minds that WIFOM and second guess ourselves.