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Dwarf Fortress => DF Community Games & Stories => Topic started by: NCommander on June 23, 2016, 03:47:33 am

Title: Scorchedgravel - Swimming Towards The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on June 23, 2016, 03:47:33 am

Welcome to Scorchedgravel - Home Of The Final 7
===

So, I've been inspired to try doing a community fort with a twist. Is it possible to survive/revive as a civilization with only seven dwarfs, no migrants, no trading, and enemies all around? Let's find out.

We're in a badlands volcano with access to all ores, but we're a dead civilization, and the game has been modded to prevent any trading of any kind. We're currently on 43.03, and I will update as new DFHack versions become available. Our goal is to survive, birth the next generation, and perhaps reclaim our greatness in the world. I plan to play until this story gets a satisfying conclusion, either win or loose. I may retire the fort and run adventurers depending how the plot goes or what not.

I will also take dwarfing requests, though with so few, its first come, first serve and RPing is welcome. That being said, let's not recycle names, unless its in a bloodline (i.e., NCommander II can only come from the parents of NCommander I, and I'll be using nicknames shown in the "middle" in d_init.txt

If the plot requires it, I will use DFHack to make things happen in addition to bug fixing. The save has already been DFhacked to make sure dwarfs will marry (as generated, I got six straight dwarfs who won't marry, and one bi dwarf who would marry That's been changed into six dwarfs who will marry, and one bi dwarf who would marry).

Table of Contents
 - Introduction (this post)

Year 550-560
 - The Final Seven + Breeding Mechanics (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158932.msg7060248)
 - Caverns (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158932.msg7060324)
 - Survival Plan (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158932.msg7060365#msg7060365)
 - Towards Winter (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158932.msg7066212#msg7066212)
 - Marriage Among Buzzard Problems (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158932.msg7066592#msg7066592)
 - The Next Generation (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158932.msg7071269#msg7071269)
 - Of Forgotten Beasts and Hammerdwarfs (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158932.msg7072814#msg7072814)
 - Road to Atlantis (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158932.msg7073453#msg7073453)
 - The Swimmaster (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158932.msg7078472#msg7078472)
 - Digging The Future (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=158932.msg7078472#msg7078472)

Prelude
---

This is a masterwork dog leather journal owned by Kogan 'NCommander' Kelnakuth. On its covered is adored images of seven dwarfs. The image related to the founding of Scorchedgravel, the last Dwarven settlement.

---
1st of Granite, 550

Rigoth keeps bothering me to fill this stupid thing out since he found it, since as our leader it's my duty to leave records. Do I look like a record keeper? I'm a weaponsmith for Usen's sake. Or at least, I was before we fled.

Yes, Rigoth, I'm filling it out, yes, I know you can read over my shoulder. Fine, I'll explain how we got here. _{Micromanager ...}

Let's backtrack, in our world, there were four sentient species. Dwarfs (that's us), humans, tall upright apes driven by ambition and greed, elfs who the legends tell us fought to protect the woodland, and goblins, who worshipped the demons below.

My grandfather told me that in the years before the blight, humans, elfs, and dwarfs for the most part got along. Sure, we had our differences but we could trade, mingle, and let bygones be bygones. Dwarfs lived in mountains, humans claimed the planes, and the elfs had the forest. We all fought the goblins. We had balance.

About two centuries ago, something changed. The elfs said the rythem of the world had changed. Those of us close to the earth, well, we called it The Blight. As my dad taught me, evil can only take root where there is discontent, hatred, or worst of all, ambition. As such, when the Blight began to sweep the plains, it found the most fertile soil of all: the human heart.

What had been cities and keeps began dark pits, and towers. Wars began to rage across the land. The elfs were first to go, slaughtered down to the last man, woman, and child. Then they came from us. As hillock and hillock began to fall, we tried to fight back, we thought our dwarven steel would be no match for human's copper and iron weaponry. We were right, but for every human who fell, two more took their places.

(http://i.imgur.com/jviHaiR.png)

Faced with an unwinnable battle of attrition, our last king, Urist Othilmorul, had the entrances to our last mountainhall collasped, in the hope that we could hide and protect ourself. For over half-a-century we remained buried under tons of stone. Our enemy however was willing to dig us out.

The attack came early in the morning when human miners breached the cavern layers from above. None of us had known what was happening. In the confusion, I ran deeper in the cavarns and hid. When I finally came back, all I found were humans and corpses. By the grace of Usen, I was able to grab some supplies, and snuck off. By chance, I stumbled upon a tunnel built by the Roads of Roaring before the blight. That's where I met Rigoth.

Rigoth was a mason from the fortress of Grapemachines. They had been attacked at nearly the same time we were. Appartantly the humans had coordinated their strike to wipe us all our in one fell swoop. Although I would not find this out until much later, he was a distinct relative of our current king, a trait that would be helpful later.

As we moved away from Grapemachines, we found others who fled the attacks. Some had supplies, another had a wagon. Knowing that no existing fortress was safe, we ventured into the uncharted depths beneath the earth. At our height, we were over 30 dwarfs.

Repeated attacks by forgotten beasts, jabberers, trolls, and other horrors have dwindled our numbers. After a month, we were down to just 12. We eventually found a natural cave to the surface. I argued that the caverns would kill us. We took to a surface that I hadn't seen since I was a kid.

Using old charts, we've headed south, away from any known settlements. I think we're close to the edge of the continent.

(http://i.imgur.com/yyla4ZN.png)

In the year since we've gone topside, we've lost five more. Only seven remain.

I fear we may be the last of our kind.

15th of Granite, 550
===

Disaster! As Solon tried to navigate around a sunken volcano, our one wagon cracked and broke! The wagon began to slide down the hill before falling into Armok's sweet embrace.

(http://i.imgur.com/eTunnYY.png)

Rigoth and Solon proceeded to having a shouting match over this stupidity that I had to eventually break up. I don't know if it was her fault or not, but yelling is not going to help. Both sides are still rather angry.

(http://i.imgur.com/JCpG74a.png)

Until someone goes through our supplies, I can not say for sure much we've lost, but I can tell that our sole anvil, as well as both a pick and an axe survived. I do have an accounting of what we had before the wagon went over though ...

(http://i.imgur.com/epzFDpS.png)

Wherever we are, we're going to stay ...

(http://i.imgur.com/Qcl0aZt.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/0rgY3aE.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/VfKrDIP.png)

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Gwolfski on June 23, 2016, 04:14:12 am

Can I be dorfed as the jeweler please?

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 23, 2016, 04:15:26 am

Meet the Final 7 & Breeding Requirements
---

(http://i.imgur.com/Lc2PKm8.png)

So, here's a primer on how dwarf breeding mechanics work. Only married heterosexual couples will pop out kids. Dwarfs will only marry someone within 10 years of age of them, and both dwarfs have to want to marry as their orientation. I've DFhacked anyone who would only romance into marrying for plot reasons. That doesn't mean they will marry, just that it becomes possible (in theory, I should have modified the raws to fix this in advance, but whatever).

Assuming they're capable of marriage, I believe dwarfs will marry anyone they like that not a direct relative of (they should be willing to marry cousins. I think.). As such, I need a minimum of two couples to get more than a generation. After that, it should be "open season". I've got about 75-years before the Final 7 keel over from old age. Anyway, let's meet them.

Solon Kosothbungek - Miner/Doctor
--
She is a worshipper of N shas Cavemined. 
She is a citizen of The Roads of Roaring.  She is a member of The Uncertain Hammers.  She arrived at Othlestas‰n on the 15th of Granite in the year 550. 
She is sixty-three years old, born on the 8th of Timber in the year 487. 
She is very fat.  Her ochre eyes are slit.  Her nose is quite long.  Her hair is wavy.  Her very long hair is tied in a pony tail.  Her nose bridge is convex.  Her somewhat tall ears are extremely narrow.  Her head is very short.  Her eyebrows are extremely long.  Her eyelashes are quite long.  Her hair is black.  Her skin is ecru. 
She is very rarely sick and strong, but she is flimsy and very slow to heal. 
Solon Kosothbungek likes siltstone, sterling silver, green diamond, giant peach-faced lovebird leather, cabinets and scrolls.  When possible, she prefers to consume giant hyena, lungfish and sewer brew.  She absolutely detests leeches. 
She has an iron will, a good kinesthetic sense and the ability to focus, but she has poor empathy, a poor memory, next to no natural musical ability and a lousy intellect. 
Like others in her culture, she holds craftsdwarfship to be of the highest ideals and celebrates talented artisans and their masterworks, has a great deal of respect for the law, greatly prizes loyalty, values family greatly, believes that honesty is a high ideal, really respects those that take the time to master a skill, deeply respects those that work hard at their labors, respects fair-dealing and fair-play, values cooperation, finds merrymaking and partying worthwhile activities, values martial prowess, values leisure time, values knowledge and finds nature somewhat disturbing.  She personally finds art offensive and would have it destroyed whenever possible, is somewhat put off by trade and commerce and finds friendship burdensome.  She dreams of raising a family. 
She almost never feels discouraged.  She accepts favors without developing a sense of obligation, preferring to act as the current situation demands.  She often feels lustful.  She tends to make a small mess with her own possessions.  She prefers to present herself modestly.  She is a friendly individual, and she is burdened by this tendency because she dislikes the idea of friendship.  She can easily fall in love or develop positive sentiments.  She is not particularly interested in what others think of her.  She needs alcohol to get through the working day.  She likes working outdoors and grumbles only mildly at inclement weather. 
--

Sodel Rulbim - Carpenter
She is a faithful worshipper of Avuz Deepsteels the Gravel of Rocks. 
She is a citizen of The Roads of Roaring.  She is a member of The Uncertain Hammers.  She arrived at Othlestas‰n on the 15th of Granite in the year 550. 
She is sixty-seven years old, born on the 28th of Slate in the year 483. 
She is short.  Her ochre eyes are slit.  Her ears are extremely narrow.  Her eyebrows are extremely long.  Her eyelashes are quite long.  Her hair is wavy.  Her short hair is neatly combed.  Her hair is black.  Her skin is ecru. 
She is very agile and quite durable, but she is quick to tire. 
Sodel Rulbim likes serpentine, pig iron, harlequin opal, candlenut wood, water buffalo horn, backpacks, reindeer for their large herds and the sight of The Earthen Gem.  When possible, she prefers to consume giant hyena, long yam plants, papaya wine, goat's milk and sorghum seeds.  She absolutely detests large roaches. 
She has very good intuition, very good focus and a sum of patience, but she has an iffy sense for music and next to no willpower. 
Like others in her culture, she holds craftsdwarfship to be of the highest ideals and celebrates talented artisans and their masterworks, has a great deal of respect for the law, greatly prizes loyalty, values family greatly, sees friendship as one of the finer things in life, believes that honesty is a high ideal, really respects those that take the time to master a skill, deeply respects those that work hard at their labors, respects fair-dealing and fair-play, values cooperation, finds merrymaking and partying worthwhile activities, values martial prowess, values leisure time, respects commerce, values knowledge and finds nature somewhat disturbing.  She personally doesn't care about art one way or another.  She dreams of raising a family. 
She likes a little excitement now and then.  She is quite polite.  She likes to keep things practical, without delving too deeply into the abstract.  She tends to make a small mess with her own possessions.  She is grateful when others help her out and tries to return favors.  She generally acts with a narrow focus on the current activity.  She tends to be passive in discussions.  She is often nervous.  She is somewhat fearful in the face of imminent danger.  She isn't particularly curious about the world.  She tends to form only tenuous emotional bonds with others.  She isn't given to flights of fancy.  She is moved by art and natural beauty, and she is troubled by this since she dislikes the natural world.  She tends to think before acting.  She enjoys the company of others.  She generally acts impartially and is rarely moved to mercy.  She chews her cheek when she's bored.  She needs alcohol to get through the working day.  She likes working outdoors and grumbles only mildly at inclement weather.

Rigoth Othilmorul - King/Mason/Brewer
He is a worshipper of Avuz Deepsteels the Gravel of Rocks. 
He is a citizen of The Roads of Roaring.  He is a member of The Uncertain Hammers.  He is the king of The Roads of Roaring.  He arrived at Othlestas‰n on the 15th of Granite in the year 550. 
He is seventy-eight years old, born on the 20th of Obsidian in the year 472. 
His sideburns are clean-shaven.  His very long moustache is neatly combed.  His very long beard is braided.  His very long hair is arranged in double braids.  His wide-set ochre eyes are slit.  His quite long nose is extremely narrow.  His nose bridge is slightly convex.  His eyelashes are quite long.  His hair is black.  His skin is ecru. 
He is rarely sick, but he is weak. 
Rig•th Othilm”rul likes chromite, billon, amber opal, ash wood, the color eggplant, gizzard stones, water buffalos for their water wallowing, the words of The Flute of Berries and the sound of The Sienna Shafts.  When possible, he prefers to consume sailfin molly and river spirits.  He absolutely detests brown recluse spiders. 
He has meager creativity and very little patience. 
Like others in his culture, he holds craftsdwarfship to be of the highest ideals and celebrates talented artisans and their masterworks, has a great deal of respect for the law, greatly prizes loyalty, values family greatly, sees friendship as one of the finer things in life, believes that honesty is a high ideal, greatly respects artists and their works, really respects those that take the time to master a skill, deeply respects those that work hard at their labors, respects fair-dealing and fair-play, values cooperation, values martial prowess, values leisure time, values knowledge and finds nature somewhat disturbing.  He personally strongly believes that a peaceful and ordered society without dissent is best, values independence, is somewhat put off by trade and commerce, values peace over war and sees merrymaking as a waste.  He dreams of raising a family. 
He is quite polite.  He doesn't mind wearing something special now and again.  He can sometimes act without deliberation.  He likes to keep things practical, without delving too deeply into the abstract.  He is grateful when others help him out and tries to return favors.  He doesn't often feel envious of others.  He rarely feels discouraged.  He has a tendency to go it alone, without considering the advice of others.  He tends to consider what others think of him.  He generally acts impartially and is rarely moved to mercy.  He  becomes very rigid when he's angry.  He inhales sharply when he is angry.  He needs alcohol to get through the working day.  He likes working outdoors and grumbles only mildly at inclement weather. 

Mistem Tishislogem - Herbalist/Metalsmith/Broker
She is a dubious worshipper of Avuz Deepsteels the Gravel of Rocks. 
She is a citizen of The Roads of Roaring.  She is a member of The Uncertain Hammers.  She arrived at Othlestas‰n on the 15th of Granite in the year 550. 
She is seventy-five years old, born on the 19th of Granite in the year 475. 
Her slightly wide-set ochre eyes are slit.  Her nose is extremely long.  Her ears are narrow.  Her hair is wavy.  Her very short hair is neatly combed.  Her eyelashes are quite long.  Her hair is black.  Her skin is ecru. 
She is susceptible to disease and very weak. 
Mistˆm Tishislogem likes gneiss, rose gold, sunstone, ramie fabric, the color dark green, long swords, gauntlets, coffins, donkeys for their stubborness, giant bluejays for their coloration, the words of The Flute of Berries, the sound of The Bewildering Queen and the sight of The Deep Mines.  When possible, she prefers to consume cavy and tomato wine.  She absolutely detests moon snails. 
She has an amazing memory, a lot of willpower, a natural inclination toward language, an ability to read emotions fairly well and a good feel for social relationships, but she has a questionable spatial sense. 
Like others in her culture, she holds craftsdwarfship to be of the highest ideals and celebrates talented artisans and their masterworks, has a great deal of respect for the law, greatly prizes loyalty, values family greatly, sees friendship as one of the finer things in life, believes that honesty is a high ideal, greatly respects artists and their works, really respects those that take the time to master a skill, deeply respects those that work hard at their labors, respects fair-dealing and fair-play, values cooperation, finds merrymaking and partying worthwhile activities, values martial prowess, values leisure time, respects commerce, values knowledge and finds nature somewhat disturbing.  She personally respects perseverance.  She dreams of crafting a masterwork someday. 
She is not driven and rarely feels the need to pursue even a modest success.  She is a perfectionist.  She almost never feels discouraged.  She likes to brawl.  She is somewhat quarrelsome, and she is bothered by this since she values friendship.  She tends to be swayed by the emotions of others.  She is assertive.  She likes a little excitement now and then.  She likes to keep things practical, without delving too deeply into the abstract.  She does not often feel lustful.  She is curious and eager to learn.  She has a greedy streak.  She needs alcohol to get through the working day.  She likes working outdoors and grumbles only mildly at inclement weather. 


Kobuk Kelmesir - Gem Setter/Potter
He is a worshipper of Usen.
He is a citizen of The Roads of Roaring.  He is a member of The Uncertain Hammers.  He arrived at Othlestas‰n on the 15th of Granite in the year 550. 
He is sixty-five years old, born on the 9th of Limestone in the year 485. 
His sideburns are clean-shaven.  His very long moustache is arranged in double braids.  His very long beard is arranged in double braids.  His long hair is arranged in double braids.  His wide-set protruding ochre eyes are slit.  His nose is quite long.  His eyelashes are quite long.  His hair is black.  His skin is ecru. 
He is rarely sick and slow to tire, but he is flimsy and weak. 
K–buk Kelmesir likes anhydrite, bismuth bronze, rose quartz, crossbows, bucklers, quivers, chains, yaks for their shaggy hair and the sound of The Bewildering Queen.  When possible, he prefers to consume giant wombat, sole and plum wine.  He absolutely detests mosquitos. 
He has a great musical sense, a very good feel for social relationships and a good intellect, but he has little willpower, a poor memory and poor spatial senses. 
Like others in his culture, he holds craftsdwarfship to be of the highest ideals and celebrates talented artisans and their masterworks, has a great deal of respect for the law, greatly prizes loyalty, values family greatly, sees friendship as one of the finer things in life, believes that honesty is a high ideal, greatly respects artists and their works, really respects those that take the time to master a skill, deeply respects those that work hard at their labors, respects fair-dealing and fair-play, values cooperation, finds merrymaking and partying worthwhile activities, values martial prowess, values leisure time and finds nature somewhat disturbing.  He personally finds those that engage in trade and commerce to be fairly disgusting, finds romance distasteful and doesn't see the attainment of knowledge as important.  He dreams of creating a great work of art. 
He tends to be a little tight with resources when working on projects.  He rarely feels discouraged.  He doesn't focus on material goods. He can sometimes act without deliberation.  He can occasionally lose focus on the matter at hand.  He is somewhat uncomfortable around those that appear unusual or live differently from himself.  He sometimes acts with little determination and confidence.  He has little interest in joking around.  He enjoys the company of others.  He often feels lustful.  He can handle stress.  He tends to ask others for help with difficult decisions.  He needs alcohol to get through the working day.  He likes working outdoors and grumbles only mildly at inclement weather. 


Kogan 'NCommander' Kelnakuth - Weaponsmith/Cook
She is a worshipper of Usen. 
She is a citizen of The Roads of Roaring.  She is a member of The Uncertain Hammers.  She is the expedition leader of The Uncertain Hammers.  She arrived at Othlestas‰n on the 15th of Granite in the year 550. 
She is sixty-five years old, born on the 2nd of Felsite in the year 485. 
Her wavy hair is crinkly.  Her long hair is arranged in double braids.  Her very wide-set protruding ochre eyes are slit.  Her nose is quite long.  Her ears are narrow.  Her eyelashes are extremely long.  Her nose bridge is slightly convex.  Her head is somewhat broad.  Her hair is black.  Her skin is ecru. 
She is mighty, but she is susceptible to disease and very quick to tire. 
Kogan Kelnakuth likes andesite, lead, sunstone, weasel leather, the color pine green, high boots, doors, toy hammers, coyote men for their howling, pomelo trees for their fruit, the words of The Trim of Framing and the sight of The Silkiness of Butterflies.  When possible, she prefers to consume sorghum beer.  She absolutely detests toads. 
She has a great kinesthetic sense, a lot of willpower and good intuition, but she has a shortage of patience and a questionable spatial sense. 
Like others in her culture, she holds craftsdwarfship to be of the highest ideals and celebrates talented artisans and their masterworks, has a great deal of respect for the law, greatly prizes loyalty, values family greatly, sees friendship as one of the finer things in life, believes that honesty is a high ideal, greatly respects artists and their works, really respects those that take the time to master a skill, deeply respects those that work hard at their labors, respects fair-dealing and fair-play, values cooperation, finds merrymaking and partying worthwhile activities, values martial prowess, values leisure time, respects commerce, values knowledge and finds nature somewhat disturbing.  She personally believes that peace is always preferable to war and sees sacrifice as wasteful and foolish.  She dreams of crafting a masterwork someday.
She only rarely feels strong cravings or urges.  She actively avoids exciting or stressful situations.  She is not readily moved by art or natural beauty, and she is conflicted by this as she values artwork and its creation.  She generally acts with a narrow focus on the current activity.  She doesn't mind a little tumult and discord in day-to-day living.  She thinks she is fairly important in the grand scheme of things.  She is assertive.  She tends to make a small mess with her own possessions.  She has a noticeable lack of perseverance.  She is quick to anger.  She is grateful when others help her out and tries to return favors.  She can sometimes act without deliberation.  She tends to hang on to grievances.  She has a tendency to go it alone, without considering the advice of others. She  rolls her eyes when she's exasperated.  She needs alcohol to get through the working day.  She likes working outdoors and grumbles only mildly at inclement weather. 


Udil Cattenolin - Armorsmith/Grower
She is a worshipper of Avuz Deepsteels the Gravel of Rocks. 
She is a citizen of The Roads of Roaring.  She is a member of The Uncertain Hammers.  She arrived at Othlestas‰n on the 15th of Granite in the year 550. 
She is sixty-one years old, born on the 17th of Moonstone in the year 489. 
She is short.  Her hair is wavy.  Her very long hair is arranged in double braids.  She has a very broad chin.  Her ochre eyes are slit.  Her nose is quite long.  Her somewhat tall ears are extremely narrow.  Her somewhat broad head is short.  Her eyebrows are extremely long.  Her eyelashes are quite long.  Her hair is black.  Her skin is ecru. 
She is rarely sick, but she is very quick to tire. 
Udil Cattenolin likes limestone, nickel, amber opal, gigantic squid leather, the color moss green, rings, ballista parts, elk men for their grace and the words of The Trim of Framing.  When possible, she prefers to consume giant buzzard and barley wine.  She absolutely detests mussels. 
She has a questionable spatial sense, an iffy memory, an iffy sense for music, little patience and a lousy intellect. 
Like others in her culture, she holds craftsdwarfship to be of the highest ideals and celebrates talented artisans and their masterworks, has a great deal of respect for the law, values family greatly, sees friendship as one of the finer things in life, believes that honesty is a high ideal, greatly respects artists and their works, really respects those that take the time to master a skill, deeply respects those that work hard at their labors, respects fair-dealing and fair-play, values cooperation, finds merrymaking and partying worthwhile activities, values martial prowess, values leisure time, values knowledge and finds nature somewhat disturbing.  She personally values loyalty, is somewhat put off by trade and commerce, finds introspection to be a waste of time and sees competition as wasteful and silly.  She dreams of mastering a skill. 
She is dour as a rule, and she is conflicted by this as she values parties and merrymaking in the abstract.  She seeks out exciting and adventurous situations.  She doesn't mind a little tumult and discord in day-to-day living.  She does not easily fall in love and rarely develops positive sentiments.  She tends not to reveal personal information.  She is quick to anger.  She tends to think before acting.  She is quite polite.  She lives a fast-paced life.  She tends to form only tenuous emotional bonds with others.  She rarely feels discouraged.  She tends to be a little tight with resources when working on projects.  She has a sense of duty.  She chews her lips when she's angry.  She needs alcohol to get through the working day.  She likes working outdoors and grumbles only mildly at inclement weather. 

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Imic on June 23, 2016, 04:53:50 am

I'll take the king. Neme him Imic, with the title of last king of the dwarves
He wants to see the dwarves returned to their former glory.
FOR SCORCHEDGRAVEL!!!

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 23, 2016, 05:08:52 am

Quote from: Imic on June 23, 2016, 04:53:50 am

I'll take the king. Neme him Imic, with the title of last king of the dwarves
He wants to see the dwarves returned to their former glory.
FOR SCORCHEDGRAVEL!!!

Done, though I'm not doing custom professions yet; I'm using those to keep track what gender and age everyone is. I deleted the kings mandate's and room requirements. In my head, the title of king is more taken as a tounge-in-thing (you got the title the moment I unpaused) than its taken serious. I may restore it when we get the first generation of dwarfs.

Quote from: Gwolfski on June 23, 2016, 04:14:12 am

Can I be dorfed as the jeweler please?

Done. You got the bi dwarf, so you might be the odd man out on forming a clan.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NRDL on June 23, 2016, 05:24:23 am

Could I please be dorfed as the miner?  Named Nix. 

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Imic on June 23, 2016, 05:50:19 am

Quote from: NCommander on June 23, 2016, 05:08:52 am

Quote from: Imic on June 23, 2016, 04:53:50 am

I'll take the king. Neme him Imic, with the title of last king of the dwarves
He wants to see the dwarves returned to their former glory.
FOR SCORCHEDGRAVEL!!!

Done, though I'm not doing custom professions yet; I'm using those to keep track what gender and age everyone is. I deleted the kings mandate's and room requirements. In my head, the title of king is more taken as a tounge-in-thing (you got the title the moment I unpaused) than its taken serious. I may restore it when we get the first generation of dwarfs.

Quote from: Gwolfski on June 23, 2016, 04:14:12 am

Can I be dorfed as the jeweler please?

Done. You got the bi dwarf, so you might be the odd man out on forming a clan.

He's just going to act as a morale raiser. You know, last king of the dwarves and all that...

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 23, 2016, 06:35:31 am

This is a masterwork dog leather journal owned by Kogan 'NCommander' Kelnakuth. On its covered is adored images of seven dwarfs. The image related to the founding of Scorchedgravel, the last Dwarven settlement.


16th of Granite
---

We're not going anywhere. Before the wagon upturned, we had enough food and drink to last us several years. Now we only have enough for a few months at best with rationing. Given our surrounding, I told Solon (who prefers to be called Nix) to grab the remaining pick, and dig straight down. Our one hope is the caverns.

(http://i.imgur.com/9feZGnm.png)

She immediately picked a spot and headed downward. Getting her out of sight will likely prevent Imic (Rigoth's nickname), and I from murdering her in her sleep. I don't really like the idea of going below ground after all the losses we had before, but I'm not seeing an alternative. We're in the middle of a badlands, very little grows here. I've sent Mistem to pick what she can in an attempt to buy time but the situation is not good.

I'm trying to rationalize myself why we need to go down:
 - We've got a bunch of grazing animals with us who we were able to gorge full of food before we entered this rocky wastes. As it stands, we don't have enough grass to feed them here.
 - We need plants. Mistem has gotten pretty good at picking them over time. She can run into the caverns, get what we need, and get out.
 - We need wood. A few fungiwood trees would let us rebuild and get rolling again.

I'm uneasy about this, but I don't see an alternative

16th of Granite
---

I've set to work replacing our lost supplies. We had mined out some tetrahedite a few days ago. Sodel cut down a tree and we got some charcoal going. Given our last volcano suprise, I really rather not send anyone close to it as of yet.

(http://i.imgur.com/WRGLAwR.png)

20th of Granite
---

Our surface workshops are operational while we're here.

(http://i.imgur.com/2eocQkc.png)

We've got eight bars of copper already, now being forging into shiny new picks. I spotted some hemaite while walking along the dig site which will get us a spare anvil or two.

(http://i.imgur.com/VkiCvjQ.png)

I hope Nix hits the caverns soon.

25th of Granite

(http://i.imgur.com/1VMDWMN.png)

We found the caverns ...

Nix ran up, and told me I wasn't going to like it. She's been making herself scarce since we arrived, and Imic is still cross with her. I'm really worried they're going to punch each other's lights out. But the "thing I won't like"

(http://i.imgur.com/B6mUK93.png)

The cavern is flooded. Nix tells me there's likely dry land somewhere where we can reach, but for her to mine to it could take months. As it stands. We can't get to the wood or pasture our animals. I can see Fungiwood trees just out of reach; we've either hit the first or second layer. I tell her to dig exploratory shafts every 10 levels, and keep going down. If this is the second cavern, then we have hope. If not, then we're more screwed than I would care to admit.

10th of Slate
---

No additional caverns have been located. I'm worried.

18th of Slate
---

(http://i.imgur.com/vGVrOI9.png)

Nix broke through the ceiling earlier today.

(http://i.imgur.com/3DG3zLr.png)

Lifeless, or nearly so. No trees that we can see, though at least its dry ... I'm unsure what to do ..

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 23, 2016, 07:30:14 am

OOC: Ok, I'm in a writing mood tonight ...

This is a masterwork dog leather journal owned by Kogan 'NCommander' Kelnakuth. On its covered is adored images of seven dwarfs. The image related to the founding of Scorchedgravel, the last Dwarven settlement.

I held a meeting over our makeshift stockpile and got everyone around us. I knew what I was going to say. The last thing we needed after everything was for folks to loose hope. So, I started with the bad news.

"Ok folks, no easy way to break this, here's the situation, our hope of getting out of here quickly is flooded under several million liters of water, and the second cavern layer is looking lifeless at best. I can't send anyone the caverns as it stands in good conscious and there's nothing for Mistem to pick anyway. Trying to find the third cavern at this point is a death sentence. Summed up, we're stuck."

Predictably, the reaction to this proclamation was overwhelmingly negative, but I cut off the objections before they got going.

"Instead of focusing on what we don't have, let's review what we need and look at what we do have."

I took a stick and drew on the ground:

"Most importantly, we're going to need crops, both for food and for booze. Beyond that, we're going to need a way to transport liquids. We can't use wood, so that's out. Third, we also need a way to feed our animals. The llamas are grazers, so we need grass or something a close approximation of. Forth, we've got easy access to magma."

I turned over to Nix, partially to extend an olive branch, and to remind others she's been hard at work.

"Nix, you've had a good look at the stone levels around here, what can you tell us?"

Nix flustered, and stumbled her words before getting going.

"W-w-we've got several layers of fire clay, and pete near the surface. Deeper down, we've got marble, cassiterite, some obsidian, bunch of other ores and rocks."

Someone, Imic, I think, whistled. It was a lot of good ores ...

"OK folks, that's where we stand, what can we do with it?"

Udil spoke up first.

"Given the volcano, that pete and clay should be saturated with volcanic ash. Even without direct access to water, I can probably get some of our seeds to grow, though without a way to make potash, we don't have a way to make fertilizer. It would also take a better part of a season to get anything usable ..."

Gwolfski stepped up next.

"Hrm, fire clay? We could use that to make earthware. Won't have to glaze it or not, but we'd need a way to cook it. Could do it with a magma klin, if we could get the magma somewhere more useful."

I nodded, "Anyone got any ideas on our llamas?"

Mistem stepped up next. "Well, it won't last long, but we do have a little grass up here. If we keep moving the pastures, it might buy us time." Sodem jumped in, "well, we've breached the caverns right? We can get some of the soil down there and mix it with what we have up there. That should get fungus growing no problem, assuming we have a large enough area. I can run down, grab it, run back up."

I nodded. "Ok folks, sounds like you got a plan. Nix, get your pick, and dig out some farming areas and a grazing area. After that, get some of the ore that's lying around. I want to make sure we have some
Sodem, grab one of the spares and join her; I hate to say this, but I don't think we'll need a carpenter much in the near future. Gwolfski, start gathering clay for now. Everyone else, glue your heads together, and figure out a way to safely tap that volcano. We're going to need the magma for Gwolfsk's klin."

I exhaled. Before everyone left, Imic brought up one final question.

"If we're going to be here for awhile, someone should think of a name for this place! First local beer is one me to the winner!"

I could only smile as I walked away.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Derro on June 23, 2016, 08:02:18 am

Can I have the herbalist/metalsmith/broker? I'll probably be playing her as a hopeless optimist, so that ought to be fun.

Name... let's just go with 'Derro'.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Fleeting Frames on June 23, 2016, 08:14:45 am

What local shrubs did you already pick up?

With them being Scarce, you should pick up the local crops for seeds before they're trampled. "Not Freezing" covers quite a wide variety of things, though I'd guess "Any temperate" is too specific for temperate badlands.

I'm also curious what worldgen parameters did you use? I see no mention of z-levels and depths. Though speaking of depths, I spy several pillars through which to go deeper from underwater seaworld =) That could provide a natural defence for visitors from above.

It'd be nice to get an image of the whole embark as well for a sense of where the things are. Any featherwood trees?

What else does Sodel Rulbim have skill in other than Carpentry? Nothing?

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: TheImmortalRyukan on June 23, 2016, 10:35:48 am

Dorf me as Airith Headmistress (when custom professions are in play).

I really think this fort will survive, given your work in Doomforest and Breadbowl.

IS RPing allowed?

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Gwolfski on June 23, 2016, 11:18:37 am

Yes, I think

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Derro on June 23, 2016, 12:15:36 pm

Quote from: TheImmortalRyukan on June 23, 2016, 10:35:48 am

Dorf me as Airith Headmistress (when custom professions are in play).

I really think this fort will survive, given your work in Doomforest and Breadbowl.

IS RPing allowed?

The first post says it is.

Quote

I will also take dwarfing requests, though with so few, its first come, first serve and RPing is welcome.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Tournesol on June 23, 2016, 01:24:49 pm

Isn't there still one Dwarf left? Dwarf me please and I shall do some RP.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Imic on June 23, 2016, 01:40:42 pm

Quote from: Tournesol on June 23, 2016, 01:24:49 pm

Isn't there still one Dwarf left? Dwarf me please and I shall do some RP.

GOAT!!!
ME???!!! ACTING THE GOAT!!!???
NEVER!!??
Sir, please sto-
GOAT.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Kahlish on June 23, 2016, 02:23:25 pm

Hi there !

I'd like to be dwarfed as a male Forgemaster, named Kahlish.

May Armok bless this fort !

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 23, 2016, 04:29:27 pm

Quote from: Derro on June 23, 2016, 08:02:18 am

Can I have the gem herbalist/metalsmith/broker? I'll probably be playing her as a hopeless optimist, so that ought to be fun.

Name... let's just go with 'Derro'.

Done.

Quote from: TheImmortalRyukan on June 23, 2016, 10:35:48 am

Dorf me as Airith Headmistress (when custom professions are in play).

I really think this fort will survive, given your work in Doomforest and Breadbowl.

IS RPing allowed?

Done, I gave you Sodel, the carpenter/hauler.

Quote from: Tournesol on June 23, 2016, 01:24:49 pm

Isn't there still one Dwarf left? Dwarf me please and I shall do some RP.

And you got the grower/armorsmtih.

Quote from: Kahlish on June 23, 2016, 02:23:25 pm

Hi there !

I'd like to be dwarfed as a male Forgemaster, named Kahlish.

May Armok bless this fort !

I'll put you on the deferred dwarfing list for when we start popping out kids. You're still welcome to RP and participate even without a dwarf.

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on June 23, 2016, 08:14:45 am

What local shrubs did you already pick up?

With them being Scarce, you should pick up the local crops for seeds before they're trampled. "Not Freezing" covers quite a wide variety of things, though I'd guess "Any temperate" is too specific for temperate badlands.

I'm also curious what worldgen parameters did you use? I see no mention of z-levels and depths. Though speaking of depths, I spy several pillars through which to go deeper from underwater seaworld =) That could provide a natural defence for visitors from above.

It'd be nice to get an image of the whole embark as well for a sense of where the things are. Any featherwood trees?

What else does Sodel Rulbim have skill in other than Carpentry? Nothing?

I uploaded the save: http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=12187. We have featherwood and a few other things, but not much beyond that. Right now, the Final 7 haven't decided to settle (yet), and I have humans and goblins seige triggers set very low + AMBUSHER readded, so I'm really on edge that I might get company quickly.


I built them to mood in exactly the skills I wanted, so each dwarf embarked with one desirable moodable skill. Though you need a minimium of 20 dwarfs to get moods so it might be awhile before we get any artifacts.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 23, 2016, 06:58:32 pm

Ok, I've played through summer. Had to savescum twice, once due to a magma accident that melted most of the population, and a second because I actually got unexpected migrants (the save has been fixed to prevent that from happening again). I don't usually savescum deaths, but given I need every breeding pair of dwarf I can get, well ...

We're looking good to start operation marriage in the near future.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Fleeting Frames on June 23, 2016, 09:07:21 pm

Hm...To look at that save, I'd have to get 43.03 I guess :p, on account of running on 42.06 still due LNP. Though, if there's new dfhack for it a tavern fort would greatly like 43.03, at cost of random crashes.

And savescumming deaths, heh. That's one of the things I reserve them for, given how annoying losing progress is - also gives a way to see if same dwarf dies the same way several times, if I leave death mechanism intact.

Ah, but the corruptive influence already has me shrugging at pet deaths, instead of feeling like failure of an overseer.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 23, 2016, 11:16:29 pm

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on June 23, 2016, 09:07:21 pm

Hm...To look at that save, I'd have to get 43.03 I guess :p, on account of running on 42.06 still due LNP. Though, if there's new dfhack for it a tavern fort would greatly like 43.03, at cost of random crashes.

And savescumming deaths, heh. That's one of the things I reserve them for, given how annoying losing progress is - also gives a way to see if same dwarf dies the same way several times, if I leave death mechanism intact.

Ah, but the corruptive influence already has me shrugging at pet deaths, instead of feeling like failure of an overseer.

I wont normally savescum, for instance in breadbowl, I  wrecked and burnt down  the place and totalled the place, but for the purposes of plot, im willing. Once we get some children, the final seven will loose their plot armor.

As for the migrants scum, well, thene and plot. The first two waves almost always happen and I hadnt fixed it.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Fleeting Frames on June 24, 2016, 02:17:03 am

..would probably have used exterminate him, d-b-d and autodump destroy on their gear/corpse with dfhack in that scenario myself :p Though, would still have to memorialise.

You mean you forgot to set pop cap, or something else?

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 24, 2016, 02:36:31 am

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on June 24, 2016, 02:17:03 am

..would probably have used exterminate him, d-b-d and autodump destroy on their gear/corpse with dfhack in that scenario myself :p Though, would still have to memorialise.

You mean you forgot to set pop cap, or something else?

Pop cap was set at 21. I thought when a civ was fully extinction (and the species), you'd only get the starting 7. Turns out you also get the first two waves as well. I thought about DFHacking them out, but I didn't want unslabbable ghosts or nonsense like that. It might have also triggered a progress modifier which would cause ambushs or seiges much earlier than I'd like.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 24, 2016, 05:11:35 am

This is a masterwork dog leather journal owned by Kogan 'NCommander' Kelnakuth. On its covered is adored images of seven dwarfs. The image related to the founding of Scorchedgravel, the last Dwarven settlement.

Summer-Autumn 150
---

Imic has been riding me on getting this thing up to date. The eternal optimist actually thinks someone is going to read this. I rather think of it as a document of all our mistakes, purposefully cataloged for study by future archaeologists studying the remains of the last of Nanorum sapiens. So, in preparation for being entombed in some sorta "Museum of Evil", I suppose I should summarize.

(http://i.imgur.com/jP0RTvg.png)

It's been six months since we got stranded here, and nearly killed after our wagon broke. For the most part, we've forgiven Nix for it, though I don't think the rift between her and Imic will ever heal entirely. They seem to have some unspoken agreement just not to talk to each other. It helps that she's spent most of her time digging out forges for Gwolfski, and mining out the easy-to-reach iron on the hillside:

(http://i.imgur.com/lW5UbA0.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/onQLnQa.png)

Given our hiatus, Nix, and Imic have gone and dug out a small dining room and made some tables and chairs out of the rocks. They even managed to get Gwolfski to make some rock mugs while he waits for his forge. While I don't really like the idea of settling down here at all, I did enjoy having a place to sit, and listen to Ryukan recite some (in his mind, good) poetry.

(http://i.imgur.com/9UQpmbg.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/8WLOnfu.png)

True to her work, Udil, who has started going by Tournesol has managed to get a farm going in the clay, and has said we'll be harvesting any day. The moss transplant also has kept our llamas fed, so I don't need to worry about them starving on us.

(http://i.imgur.com/v2mbYcj.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/V3IEPC1.png)

We've also had several makeshift nestboxs set down to allow what little game we have to start laying eggs, which I'll have cooked into roasts. Combined with Mistem/Derro's work on picking the plants, our stocks our looking better. Once we have a fresh supply of pots, we can use the iron and wood we have collected to fashion a new wagon, and get on our way.

(http://i.imgur.com/O2B8vlF.png)

Speaking of iron, I should note the solution I came up to the magma delivery problem to get Gwolfski in business. I had Nix dig a small access tunnel to the crater, and dig a stairway directly under the forge level. While it required turning a few logs into charcoal to smelt the necessary iron, we got a pump which could move magma from the volcano and into a safe location.

(http://i.imgur.com/rNq1OvT.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/qwpx998.png)

Imic, of course, decided to be the one who operated it. _{He's always smiling ...}

(http://i.imgur.com/LmGSxOX.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/Wv31sAB.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/QfR8OND.png)

This worked great right up until the forges flooded*.

(http://i.imgur.com/XAvwrXh.png)

Gwolfski came running out, slightly singed, shouting for us to stop!

(http://i.imgur.com/ScB1Shx.png)

No fatalities or injuries, fortunately. The only causality was Gwolfski's clay piles, which is nothing but scorched gravel now ...

---

* - I don't get why this pressurized. Originally, I flooded the forges without that channel there, and immolated Imic and Nix when they channeled out the forge holes when it came flooding in. After I savescummed, I dug the channel in advance which prevented !!dwarfs!! but made a mess. I managed to do this a third time when I had to savescum the migrants away

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Gwolfski on June 24, 2016, 05:54:16 am

Magma on its own=no pressure
magma + pump=pressure

"Jeez! Them madmen. Tryin' teh kill me again. Ah weel, gotta have some fun in life, ain't ya?"

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 24, 2016, 06:04:52 am

Quote from: Gwolfski on June 24, 2016, 05:54:16 am

Magma on its own=no pressure
magma + pump=pressure

"Jeez! Them madmen. Tryin' teh kill me again. Ah weel, gotta have some fun in life, ain't ya?"

I wasn't pumping when I channeled the floor out though. Unless the game remembers it was pumped. (I generally avoid pumping magma far so I'm not used to dealing with pressurization ...)

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Gwolfski on June 24, 2016, 06:06:25 am

Pumps keep running for a while when you stop powering them i think.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Migrant on June 24, 2016, 06:34:26 am

Assuming this ends horribly to an early siege or something like that it might be advisable to speed up time through raw modding. Dividing the required age for dwarves (and humans and goblins if you're thorough) to grow up, marry, procreate and die by five (or some other number) would make it appear as though time was passing five times quicker. This translates to actual population growth within a few game years. The "drawback" is that legendary dwarves would have to work tirelessly to produce the same amount of masterworks. I suppose you could compensate for this by enabling fastdwarf or modding all reactions to take less time if that is possible.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Derro on June 24, 2016, 07:05:56 am

This is a dark green donkey leather diary. On it is an image of Mistem 'Derro' Tishhislogem.

Dear diary,

Today, I gathered plants outside. You won't believe this, but I actually found some whip vines! Just think of the delicious wine we can make out of that! I also found some longland grass and potatoes, but no tomatoes, sadly.

When I returned to our (rapidly growing) camp, Gwolfski told me the forges flooded! Fortunately, no one got hurt. You can still see where the lava flowed... I guess our fortress really lives up to its name, ha ha!

Mostly, I'm just glad we have forges now. I'm itching to do some metalsmithing! I wonder what I should make... perhaps some picks, or a nice statue to commemorate our settling here? Maybe Kobuk can decorate it with some gems! I'll go ask him right now!

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 24, 2016, 07:14:53 am

Quote from: Migrant on June 24, 2016, 06:34:26 am

Assuming this ends horribly to an early siege or something like that it might be advisable to speed up time through raw modding. Dividing the required age for dwarves (and humans and goblins if you're thorough) to grow up, marry, procreate and die by five (or some other number) would make it appear as though time was passing five times quicker. This translates to actual population growth within a few game years. The "drawback" is that legendary dwarves would have to work tirelessly to produce the same amount of masterworks. I suppose you could compensate for this by enabling fastdwarf or modding all reactions to take less time if that is possible.

I'm willing to turtle through sieges at this point. The caverns were breached via a seperate shaft so we're secure there. Once I've got the breeding couples setup, I can basically put the fort on auto-pilot and let it run without having to watch it closely.

Narratively speaking, I've semi-plotted out the beginning. Basically, we need to have them decide to stay in Scorchedgravel, the first marriage, and then popping out kids. I can then autopilot the fort (maybe let Nix dig out a much nicer and shiner fort, and other stuff) with maybe an annual or biannual update or such during the "Intermission". That also lets me get more players into the plot quickly.

As such, it shouldn't take long to get 12 years to pass. My biggest concern are the llamas. Right now, I won't get moods until the fortresses population ticks up to 20. However, yarn can be requested in moods and only a few creatures in the game can be sheared by dwarfs. If I loose the llamas, I can expect regular mood failures which would be at best bad, and worse, game ending. Shell is also a concern, but its not common in moods anymore, and I can see cave lobsters in Atlantis so I can theoretically get some if I need it.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Gwolfski on June 24, 2016, 07:18:11 am

Your post cutoff

@migrant: Dfhack has a timestream command that speeds up time.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Fleeting Frames on June 24, 2016, 07:20:12 am

For future reference, consider putting forge holes off into diagonals to fill the area fast but still depressurize (unless pumps pressure through diagonals?). Though I assumed you would break it off when magma has reached the halfway point and that stairwell would fill it up the rest :p

Outside iron mining...Seems relatively peaceful for an evil embark.

And hm, Capers. Going to cook them or let dwarves eat and plant 1x1 plot for needs?
However, Tomatoes and Buckwheat grow only in Tropical Dry Broadleaf Forest, which I'm not sure how to generate tbh - despite getting worlds with most forests them with perfect world :S.

Though with the amount of dwarves you have, it could satisfy most of fort's eating habits. Assuming 2 harvests per season, eating twice a season.....Would still need potash to feed everyone with 1x1 plot, I guess.

Which leads me to guess you're trying to fill several years of fort's brewing/clothesmaking/cooking needs at start, then take brewer and cooker off-duty?

@Migrant: Hm, dwarves dying at 30-32....How medival, but starting to work at 2.4? Geez. (Though I know this is not what you meant :p)

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Derro on June 24, 2016, 07:26:55 am

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on June 24, 2016, 07:20:12 am

Outside iron mining...Seems relatively peaceful for an evil embark.

It's not an evil embark, it's savage good.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Fleeting Frames on June 24, 2016, 07:34:49 am

...>_> I forgot, despite the cyan bubble bulbs being visible on screenshot.

Though, no unicorns in badlands.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 24, 2016, 08:18:18 am

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on June 24, 2016, 07:20:12 am

For future reference, consider putting forge holes off into diagonals to fill the area fast but still depressurize (unless pumps pressure through diagonals?). Though I assumed you would break it off when magma has reached the halfway point and that stairwell would fill it up the rest :p

*sigh*, I actually thought about this *after* I mined out the workshops, but thought, its magma, it don't go up ...

Quote

Outside iron mining...Seems relatively peaceful for an evil embark.

I'm fairly partial to evil embarks, but they're framerate killers for one, and two with the new version, either you get husked fully armored solders which is bad, or the weather will take of the sieges for you which is boring. Dealing with resurrecting undead can be interesting but in practice it means running a vegan fort, and having lots of hammers.

A major choice in biome was trying to max the framerate. That caused to avoid oceans, and large amounts of trees. In truth, I've actually found badland/treeless embarks to be far more difficult than evil ones, plus allows for building on the surface without a huge number of causalities.

When I looked at what's left, it was glacier, tundra, or badland. Badland is most interesting of those three.

Quote

And hm, Capers. Going to cook them or let dwarves eat and plant 1x1 plot for needs?

However, Tomatoes and Buckwheat grow only in Tropical Dry Broadleaf Forest, which I'm not sure how to generate tbh - despite getting worlds with most forests them with perfect world :S.

Though with the amount of dwarves you have, it could satisfy most of fort's eating habits. Assuming 2 harvests per season, eating twice a season.....Would still need potash to feed everyone with 1x1 plot, I guess.

Food needs are really bugged up; I'm going to have to DFHack out the bad thoughts if it becomes a serious problem and more or less ignore it, or change the need to something I can get and will be common in meals. Assuming I can even get what they want, they'll only seek out a meal with it if its raw, which causes them to complain about lack of decent meals, or eat just a random meal without consideration, causing the same problem.

I could also go the other direction, and retire the fort, send an adventurer in the world, and get them to go find the seeds needed (we're not TOO far from a forest in the world map). Though that wouldn't be well into the next generation if I do it.

Quote

Which leads me to guess you're trying to fill several years of fort's brewing/clothesmaking/cooking needs at start, then take brewer and cooker off-duty?

Well, to get dwarfs to marry, they need to idle, and sometimes idle for a long time near someone their compatible with. Theoretically, I've got three pairs of breeding dwarfs ideally, and Gwolfski as the odd man out. I need two separate pairs to get more than a generation.

That's also going to need to compete with purple needs. Food production is the one thing I need to have done now that can't really wait. Since dwarfs don't reproduce via spores anymore, I'm guessing I'm going to need to allow considerable downtime to actually get them to start popping out Little Urists. Right now, the plan is to clear everyone's labors come winter->spring, and see if we can get some marriages going and continue with each passing year. If I can't get marriages, I'll have to get creative.

Quote from: Derro on June 24, 2016, 07:05:56 am

This is a dark green donkey leather diary. On it is an image of Mistem 'Derro' Tishhislogem.

Dear diary,

Today, I gathered plants outside. You won't believe this, but I actually found some whip vines! Just think of the delicious wine we can make out of that! I also found some longland grass and potatoes, but no tomatoes, sadly.

When I returned to our (rapidly growing) camp, Gwolfski told me the forges flooded! Fortunately, no one got hurt. You can still see where the lava flowed... I guess our fortress really lives up to its name, ha ha!

Mostly, I'm just glad we have forges now. I'm itching to do some metalsmithing! I wonder what I should make... perhaps some picks, or a nice statue to commemorate our settling here? Maybe Kobuk can decorate it with some gems! I'll go ask him right now!

Yay our first RP. I smelted a bunch of billion and brass to maximize fast metal. And I actually have you cranking out statues and other nice metal things (plus the odd wheelbarrow so you're moonlighting as a metal crafter right now). Basically, given the map, wood only gets used for beds, and eventually charcoal -> steel. Everything else is going to have to be clay or metal.

At least the fort will be absurdly valuable. Also, I ran prospect all. Almost all the wood I *do* have is cavern one. There's only about 200 logs in total on the entire map.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Fleeting Frames on June 24, 2016, 09:16:08 am

Interesting thoughts on biome difficulties. With FPS goal, I take it you've planned out uses for every embark tile area in your 3×3?

As far as pulling a Marco Polo goes, farm plots are biome-restricted, so your adventuring for seeds might not bear fruit.

Though, no consideration to sand deserts/rocky wastelands/mountains? They also lack trees and rain, even if they're not necessarily interesting (mountains in particular....).

Though I take the lack of wood is the reason for lack of minecarts? One of the first things I tend to do is making some myself, sometimes while miners are still digging in more permanent spaces.

Also, if you're going to turtle through digging sieges, they would be my first choice as defence, though I'm biased :p

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 24, 2016, 06:13:42 pm

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on June 24, 2016, 09:16:08 am

Interesting thoughts on biome difficulties. With FPS goal, I take it you've planned out uses for every embark tile area in your 3×3?

Admittedly, not really. I was going to go for a 2x2, but the OCD required the volcano be in the center of the map. I'm basically winging it

Quote

Though, no consideration to sand deserts/rocky wastelands/mountains? They also lack trees and rain, even if they're not necessarily interesting (mountains in particular....).

Deserts can be hit or miss, due to high temps. Surface water would evaporate, and then lag if/when it rains. I've also just not had fun with the last few ones I've done.

Quote

Though I take the lack of wood is the reason for lack of minecarts? One of the first things I tend to do is making some myself, sometimes while miners are still digging in more permanent spaces.

I'm still mostly in clay/soil levels so I haven't gotten to it yet. I've got enough brass and billion smelted to crank out a few. Right now, the priority is to get couples married, then the hospital, then I'm not sure. I'm kinda tempted to do a multi-z level build. Nix would have years to mine it out, she's almost legendary *as is*.

Quote

Also, if you're going to turtle through digging sieges, they would be my first choice as defence, though I'm biased :p

I've got digging invaders disabled for the moment; I need to get the breeding project to bare fruit so the loss of a dwarf or two isn't catastrophic. I haven't decided exactly how I want to handle this, but I'm a strong believer a good defense is a good offense.

EDIT: so I went to setup the honeymoon chambers, and somehow found I only have two males instead of three. Somehow I think I goofed, but not fatal.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: gchristopher on June 24, 2016, 06:21:22 pm

Quote from: NCommander on June 24, 2016, 08:18:18 am

I could also go the other direction, and retire the fort, send an adventurer in the world, and get them to go find the seeds needed (we're not TOO far from a forest in the world map). Though that wouldn't be well into the next generation if I do it.

I found that it wasn't too terribly hard to use dfhack to change an existing seed into one for a different plant.  That way there wasn't any fiddling with creating new items, just changing one or two attributes. (If only changing a seed within its major family (standard plants, garden plants, crop plants, it's only one value.) Let me know if you'd like to go that route.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 24, 2016, 07:37:30 pm

I haven't decided how to handle it. I'm taking this very much one step at a time. Right now, I played through autumn and we're in winter (which has become a work stoppage season). I've got a bunch of friends but no wedding bells have gone off yet. I'll get the rest of the year played out pretty quick and then cross my fingers.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Dame de la Licorne on June 24, 2016, 07:41:49 pm

Hi!

Quote from: NCommander on June 24, 2016, 07:37:30 pm

I've got a bunch of friends but no wedding bells have gone off yet. I'll get the rest of the year played out pretty quick and then cross my fingers.

I do generation forts all the time (more of a challenge, and I don't like having to micromanage migrant waves).  My experience is that the first marriages typically will happen soon into the second season after stopping work for the relevant dwarfs, so you should be seeing the announcements start to pop up in the spring sometime.  (Disclaimer: this is only a personal observation, and may not apply to other forts.)

Anyway, PTW.

-Dame de la Licorne

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 24, 2016, 07:58:05 pm

This is my first time trying this challenge, and I think I'm the first to do it on the forums from the starting seven only. Right now, Imic is friends with everyone except Nix (who have a grudge), and everyone at least knows everyone now so progress.

I also had a bird explosion, and a new llama, so yay for breeding. Really hoping this works.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NRDL on June 24, 2016, 08:03:46 pm

I actually had no idea I was picking up the most hated member of the seven, but I'm really glad I did now, hopefully something non-lethally dramatic happens. 

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 24, 2016, 08:47:36 pm

Dame de la Licorne was right on the money. After Spring ticked around, I got my first set of lovers. Gwolfski and Nix are the first couple in the fortress. Imic is the only other male, and only has one potential partner who are friends, so I'm crossing my fingers here.

EDIT: We're 2/2. Imic and Derro are lovers now too. As soon as we get two marriages, I'll start writing updates.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Dame de la Licorne on June 24, 2016, 10:38:02 pm

Hi!

Out of curiosity (and it may not fit your current plans), is there a DFHack command that can change the sex of a creature?  (If yes, this may be a way to get a third couple going, especially since you have that bi dwarf who is willing to marry, so would theoretically have two options for the "new male".  Or you can use "spawnunit" to generate 1-2 more males of the appropriate ages.  Backups can be a good idea in these things, if you want my opinion.)

Looking forward to further updates!

-Dame de la Licorne

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 24, 2016, 10:54:14 pm

Quote from: Dame de la Licorne on June 24, 2016, 10:38:02 pm

Hi!

Out of curiosity (and it may not fit your current plans), is there a DFHack command that can change the sex of a creature?  (If yes, this may be a way to get a third couple going, especially since you have that bi dwarf who is willing to marry, so would theoretically have two options for the "new male".  Or you can use "spawnunit" to generate 1-2 more males of the appropriate ages.  Backups can be a good idea in these things, if you want my opinion.)

Looking forward to further updates!

-Dame de la Licorne

It can't be done with a command, but if you're willing to brave the gm-editor, you can change a critters caste from male to female by abusing how werebeasts work. Basically if I edit current_soul->castle, the game treats it as a werebeast transformation, and I'll get "Urist McGenderBender has become a dwarf". The bi dwarf took a female lover, and the "gaydar" command says he'll marry so its just a matter of time.

I'm kinda on the fence on doing it though.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Derro on June 25, 2016, 03:40:53 am

This is a dark green donkey letter diary. On it is an image of Mistem 'Derro' Tishhislogem the female dwarf.

Oh. My. Avuz. I can't believe it! Today, king Imic... I mean... I...

I'M GOING TO BE A QUEEN CONSORT!

Okay... need to calm down. I'll go do some relaxing metalsmithing. Maybe a statue to commemorate me and the king my love Imic's engagement? Yes, I'll do that. Oh, this is just too great!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

NCommander, could you have Mistem forge a statue of herself and Imic, then put them somewhere next to each other? If you rather wouldn't, I understand.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Tournesol on June 25, 2016, 06:17:23 am

Time to go plant some more plump helmets. We need them for the booze, and I want to practice my farming skills in case we get our hands on a few barley seeds which I will then turn into a proper wine-maiking industry. We need booze to survive, and kids - but I'm in luck, it seems our two gentledwarves have picked others for mates so they will leave me alone. Had any of them chosen me, I'd had to go along with it for duty's sake: I do not want us to become extinct. But I'd rather spend my time drinking than raising kids.

I'm waiting for the forges to get ready and stocked so I can make us all some good protective gear. In the meantime, after I'm done with my farming chores, I'll go play with the magma.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Gwolfski on June 25, 2016, 07:29:07 am

Diary

This is the first happy day in ages! We have finally found something nice! Maybe I can make a statue from this clay... Put some jewels in it... Oh yes....


((can you make a clay statue of Gwolfski and Nix?))

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NRDL on June 25, 2016, 07:34:46 am

Dear journal,

Not really sure why I'm writing in this stupid thing, got digging to do, always just a bit more.  Not exciting work, but it keeps ya busy, keeps ya in shape.  Speaking of, Gwolfski's been giving me the eye lately.  And not the goblin-y stink eye like Imic, no, the much more pleasant kind.  Figured I'd  keep to myself, stay out of trouble, but I gotta say, I ain't minding the attention.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Migrant on June 25, 2016, 09:14:05 am

@gwolski I might look into that time stream thing. I like the concept of a family fort as opposed to a migrant heavy fort.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Gwolfski on June 25, 2016, 02:09:38 pm

Yuo have to get it seperate from dfhack and put it in scripts folder

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 26, 2016, 03:35:11 am

I've been tied up due to real life. Update coming either later today or tomorrow.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Gwolfski on June 26, 2016, 05:32:16 am

Quote from: NCommander on June 26, 2016, 03:35:11 am

I've been tied up due to real life. Update coming either later today or tomorrow.

Don't worry. AS long as you don't abondon this  ;)

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Imic on June 26, 2016, 09:28:58 am

Quote from: Derro on June 25, 2016, 03:40:53 am

This is a dark green donkey letter diary. On it is an image of Mistem 'Derro' Tishhislogem the female dwarf.

Oh. My. Avuz. I can't believe it! Today, king Imic... I mean... I...

I'M GOING TO BE A QUEEN CONSORT!

Okay... need to calm down. I'll go do some relaxing metalsmithing. Maybe a statue to commemorate me and the king my love Imic's engagement? Yes, I'll do that. Oh, this is just too great!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

NCommander, could you have Mistem forge a statue of herself and Imic, then put them somewhere next to each other? If you rather wouldn't, I understand.

*silent emotion*
.........,

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: MoonyTheHuman on June 26, 2016, 10:20:24 am

Boo
is dwarfingallowedhere?

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Gwolfski on June 26, 2016, 12:36:44 pm

Yes, but I think we ran out of dwarves.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Fleeting Frames on June 26, 2016, 01:02:19 pm

Quote from: NCommander on June 26, 2016, 03:35:11 am

I've been tied up due to real life. Update coming either later today or tomorrow.

That's not "tied up", that's "briefly interrupted" :P

No matter the conditions, take as long as you want, you're the one writing this.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 26, 2016, 10:41:39 pm

This is a masterwork dog leather journal owned by Kogan 'NCommander' Kelnakuth. On its covered is adored images of seven dwarfs. The image related to the founding of Scorchedgravel, the last Dwarven settlement.

---

Early Autumn 550

(http://i.imgur.com/QtSliyA.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/LbtSnph.png)

I've been thinking a lot. We're getting pretty close to harvesting our last round of crops, and have enough iron smelted to rebuild the wagon; I do think we can get out of here soon, but I'm worried that the others won't want to go.

Even now, on a nightly basis, Imic has been reading more poetry ...

(http://i.imgur.com/iTped9p.png)

... and expanded to playing music ...

(http://i.imgur.com/EOsJII8.png)

My eardrums have finally stopped bleeding, but the others seem to enjoy it. Honestly, its been nine months since a calminity has struck us, and for the first time since we fled into the underground, I'm seeing smiling dwarfs. I'm glad to see moral is higher, but we can't stay ...

When winter comes upon us, we'll have to head out.

---

Mid-Autumn 550

I wanted to make sure we left with excess metal supplies, I don't know the next time we'll have a realistic opportunity to mine and smelt again. Ideally, I'd like to smelt steal, but with virtually no wood, and no coal, I suspect that will remain a pipe dream. Unfortunately, Nix has struck water.

(http://i.imgur.com/BgxNQdH.png)

At least we know we don't need to go to the caverns for it now. We still need a way to safely pierce the aquifer though ...

---
Second Entry

Nix has struck gold. Literally struck gold.

(http://i.imgur.com/l7SzX4Y.png)

It's hard to say how large the vein is, but it just keeps going. It was this type of wealth that the legends of old were made out of. Directly below it, we've also hit large veins of native copper, and galena. No easy-to-harvest iron as of yet

I've had a small minecart track run up to the forges to ease transportation, and a solid gold minecart built to begin transportation.

(http://i.imgur.com/gu4p7rP.png)

---

Late Autumn 550

I had a long talk with Imic who had Derro earlier. They wanted for us to stay the winter and have time to relax. The argument they put forth was that we've been running for over a year, and constantly working since we've been here. They said that if they didn't get some real downtime, people were going to crack.

I can't say I disagree with them, but I argued that the longer we stay, the more likely we're discovered, or our path of escape will get blocked off by something in the caverns. I won't repeat the full discussion here, but ultimately, I conceded to putting the issue to a vote.

The motion passed 6 to 7.

I guess we're here until next year. I hope this won't mean our doom.

Winter 550

(http://i.imgur.com/xIVXZ4S.png)

The official "vacation" has started

(http://i.imgur.com/WLZ3MN5.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/a6rXIUk.png)

... I don't like to think about it, but I don't think we're leaving Scorchedgravel (as we've come to call it). Everyone has gotten too settled in, and I can't help but think that if I try and push for us to leave with the coming spring, I'll face a riot. Even if I put my foot down and forced the matter, I don't think it would make a difference. All this downtime has left me a lot of time to mediate. Even if we avoided the humans and goblins from now until eternity, we're still screwed.

Baring other survivors in the wilds which may or may not exist, we are the last seven dwarfs in the world. Accidents will pick us off one by one until there is no one left. At least here in Scorchedgravel, we're not exposed to the wilds; as long as we remain undetected, we'll survive.

---
Mid-Winter 550

We're drowning in birds.

(http://i.imgur.com/o4MKcM7.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/o4MKcM7.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/o4MKcM7.png)

Damn turkeys can outbreed just about anything else.

---
Late Winter 550

The turkeys have been caged, and once the winter ends, we'll be having a butchering party to celebrate. However, I realized something after I managed to chase down the last errant bird.

Dwarfs can reproduce.

I know this is an astonishing revelation to all, but maybe ... just maybe ... our situation is not hopeless. The seven of us might not be able to change anything as is, but if there were more of us, we could. Our mistake was hiding away from the world until the humans could dig us out. If we had been more active in our defense, maybe we could have stood our ground and survived. With a large population, it could be done ...

I've noticed our two bachelors have been getting friendly with Nix and Derro respectively. I'm no farmer, but if you have fertile ground, you could make anything grow. I need to make sure neither Imic or Gwolfski ever see this, but I decided to encourage this.

Officially, I've had the bedrooms paired together to prevent anything happening to anyone in their sleep. Standard protective measure against vampires (not that we need to worry about this).

(http://i.imgur.com/0aCaWV9.png)

Unofficially, I've made sure I've paired those who are most likely to come together in marriage. I don't know if I'm right in doing this; bringing a child into this hellish war might be a sin that Armok smites us all for. I do not know ...

But if there's any hope for the future, it will be in those who come after us ...

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Fleeting Frames on June 26, 2016, 11:43:27 pm

Hm. Dame de la Licorne, what does your research say on praying for marriage? I believe dwarves do not talk on jobs.

That minecart setup....Are you using 3-ramp bunker to kick the cart diagonally upwards?
Though heh, a gold minecart full of gold will be pretty deadly :v
A weapon to surpass metal gear.
I approve.

However, a dog civilization, sleeping in proper beds? Now that is something I'm more surprised about. About 7 or so dogs in screenshot too, what serendipity.

More seriously, the aquifer probably shears, given your location on hilly terrain. This can reduce the workload for punching through a multilayer one with precise planning, though if it is a single-layer one don't brother :p A hatch cover and relocating pump can suffice in that case, or might just cave in a larger layer wholesale to skip on digging drainage. Or, heck, with the volcano there can perhaps use stairs to dig out a large area in the aquifer, then pour magma to have excellent living/dining area. Heck, two should also act well as natural defence against digging invaders, which can be with little thinking covered into automatic encasing trap, provided the attackers are immune to both magma and water individually.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 27, 2016, 12:51:58 am

I managed to dig around the aquifer. As long as I stay close to the volcano, I can get under it, and I dropped a shaft all the way to Z-20 elsewhere on the map. This update is still behind where I am in the game; to get them to actually socialize and become lovers required pain, and burrows to make them cancel the green tasks. I haven't even gotten to the rather nasty forgotten beast that showed up (I'm not getting access to cavern wood anytime soon. Fire breathing spiders can go fuck themselfs).

The dogs are there because I denoted meeting areas from the statues and removed the tavern/temple for now. Right now they're caged until I have a better idea what to do with them. I don't use impulse ramps though; too exploity. Guided for now, and I may build an actual powered system in the future.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Derro on June 27, 2016, 01:24:25 am

This is a dark green donkey letter diary. On it is an image of Mistem 'Derro' Tishhislogem the female dwarf.

We're staying! I'm not complaining: turns out Nix found copper, silver, lead and even gold! This place is wonderful: I just know things are going to be okay.

I and Imic have our own bedroom now, which I decorated with a couple of statues. Gwolfski and Nix asked for some too, so I went to the forge and made them two. After that no one has asked me to make anything, though, which is kind of nice. I now spend the day talking to the others and praying to Avuz.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Are the statues in the bedrooms of the dwarves who sleep there? I assume the gold statue is Imic's?

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Fleeting Frames on June 27, 2016, 01:27:12 am

Hm, right, biomes can be mighty tiny, and volcanic minerals tend to be not aquifer bearing. Z-20....That's what, 170 z-levels?

Did you try deleting the zones before going for burrows?

As for that FB design....
Not just any spiderdragons, either. Digging spiderdragons. Of steel, hopefully?

...I do have a bit of fascination with them, admittedly :p Maybe I'll do like PatrickLundell said when I start modding and write one as start practice.

As far as cart systems go, if you're working under the restriction of not using valid ramps, dwarven push can move cart up/down dozens of levels on non-accelerating ramps (Note to self: Draw an equation for distance given speed and friction for minecarts, then compare the calculations versus reality.) - alternatively, if the speed granted by staying still is the thorn, any number of z-levels across alternating sideways valid ramps (checkpoints ensure no acceleration).

(Though I personally have a quirky irritation of powered minecart applications, even if it can at times increase efficiency/death-dealing by fourfold :p I'll have to get over my dislike of rollers someday XD)

Hm, Derro raises an interesting question about material preferences *goes back to reread the starting 7*

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 27, 2016, 01:38:53 am

Correction, it was actually a flea: (http://i.imgur.com/i4httWI.png). Still, I already incinerated one fortress this year, I rather not do the same with Scorchedgravel ...

It's actually a single-biome map according to the embark screen; no overlapping. I was actually somewhat surprised I didn't hit the aquifer when I dug the bore shaft; I've had the site finder be wrong about there being an aquifer when there wasn't one, or I got lucky and hit an ore vein on the way down and went through it. The entire embark is ~200 Z levels; The "ground-level" is Z-129,  the top of the map is Z-159 and goes to -29.

The statues in the rooms right now are brass or billion, I smelted some earlier. I can't figure out how to commission a specific statue with the couples on it though; the 'd' screen is confusing even by DF standards; also bug, you can't commission clay statues :/.

EDIT: Turns out I have the metals or their ores our couples like (I actually have a bunch of rose gold, I love the metal in real life so I tend to smelt a bunch in game). If I can manage the 'd' screen, each couple will get a statue out of the material they like.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Fleeting Frames on June 27, 2016, 01:47:40 am

Heh. The shortest time for me to lose a fortress was when some fire imps came from volcano after small irrigation project on embark and I sent military to kill it. Fire imps throw fireballs at military, civilians won't finish off unconscious fire imps. Fun.

Also, it may be single-biome map on embark selection, but my latest medium-term test embark has Fonio according to region-pops and isolated small biomes (about 100 tiles), despite the closest tropical savanna being entire region tile away. Biomes are far more disparate than pre-embark view suggests.

---

Preferences (I didn't expect you to make reply so soon!)
Solon:
Sterling silver (tetrahedrite) cabinet

Sodel Rulbim:
Pig Iron statue of The Earthen Gem

Rigoth Othilmorul:
Billion statue of water buffalo.

Mistem Tishislogem:
Rose gold coffin/statue of donkey/giant bluejay.

Kobuk Kelmesir:
Perhaps bismuth bronze statue of yak. Brought any bismuthine stones for building materials on embark?

Otherwise, might need for visitor to bring it.

Kogan Kelnakuth:
Alas, the first dwarf without satisfiable valuable metal (lead is...Well, Galena is not uncommon). Otherwise, a door or Coyote men statue.

Udil Cattenolin:
Liking nickel makes you the second dwarf to not like anything very valuable. Otherwise, elk men statue seems appealing.

Overall, surprising how everyone likes a metal. Still, none of them likes steel/gold/aluminium/platnium, so  the value of iirc doubling from appeal seems rather undercut from the sheer value of those metals.

At the very least, everyone can get a building in a shape they like.

The clay statue bug is caused by the pottery job being treated as custom reaction, which doesn't get detail specifying.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 27, 2016, 01:51:38 am

I've got galena, I just haven't smelted it yet to get any lead. DFhack says there's a small amount of BISMUTHINITE31 Z:  65..99 on the map .. really? 31 stones only? I'll be lucky to get 10 bars out of that.1/4th chance of getting a boulder ... yeah

If I smelt any bismuth bronze, it becomes something that can be demanded in moods which would be bad.

I've actually gotten a surprising amount of wildlife; a bunch of camels just wandered across the surface.

EDIT: Looks like the FB problem took care of itself. It picked a fight with a blind cave ogre. THere's now a !!ogre!! and a dead FB.

EDIT 2: It's been almost a full year and no marriages yet. Just lovers ... I really hope I won't have to DFhack this ...

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Fleeting Frames on June 27, 2016, 03:04:56 am

Can be demanded in moods, but only once per dwarf, and you have years even to the first one. But that z-level spread is just terrible ^^;  However, melting an ore produces 4 bars per ore by default (see the simple 8 billion from 2 tetrahedrite recipe), so it should average out back to 31 bismuthine bars, with total of 124 bismuth bronze if you dig through 34 z-levels.

The reason I wondered about bringing them at embark is because the cost is same as normal stone, while providing white color deeper check shows no and being rare. Not magma-safe, though...

Also, poor FB. I'm always slightly disappointed when one dies in combat. Dwarven quantum mechanics are always a treat to our minds, though :)

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 27, 2016, 03:16:55 am

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on June 27, 2016, 03:04:56 am

Can be demanded in moods, but only once per dwarf, and you have years even to the first one. But that z-level spread is just terrible ^^;  However, melting an ore produces 4 bars per ore by default (see the simple 8 billion from 2 tetrahedrite recipe), so it should average out back to 31 bismuthine bars, with total of 124 bismuth bronze if you dig through 34 z-levels.

The reason I wondered about bringing them at embark is because the cost is same as normal stone, while providing white color deeper check shows no and being rare. Not magma-safe, though...

Also, poor FB. I'm always slightly disappointed when one dies in combat. Dwarven quantum mechanics are always a treat to our minds, though :)

It's only demanded if you actually have smelted it in your fortress; if you've never smelted X, you'll never get a demand for it in moods. Failed moods would be a LOT more common if that isn't the case; how many people keep stirling silver on hand at all times?

Right now, I've almost got 551 played out. If I don't get a marriage by the end of 552, I may have to give up on this project or DFHack in the marriage. I'm a little irritated that these buggers are the last of their kind and refuse to make babies.

I did get another FB; an amber beast floating around in atlantis. I kinda want to kill it cause its the only way to GET amber. Not that you can do anything with it.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Dame de la Licorne on June 27, 2016, 05:17:23 am

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on June 26, 2016, 11:43:27 pm

Hm. Dame de la Licorne, what does your research say on praying for marriage? I believe dwarves do not talk on jobs.

Dwarves will only talk during green activities now, except not during the temple-related ones, AFAIK.  Anything that occurs in the tavern ("socialize" mainly from what I've seen so far) or any meeting-type area (when displaying "no job") will work, as long as the dwarves involved are standing on the same or adjacent tiles.  When I'm setting up "pre-honeymoon" couples, I only have a 1-tile meeting zone (not usually one of the new designations, I'm still getting a feel for how those really work in this respect, and how quickly) and I turn off all labors for the dwarves involved (with the others doing all the work).  Slow, but I can start getting couples established by the first summer, which speeds up the production of new labor a bit.  My in-game explanation is "they take turns going on break after a long, exhausting, dangerous trip."

-Dame de la Licorne

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 27, 2016, 05:47:13 am

Quote from: Dame de la Licorne on June 27, 2016, 05:17:23 am

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on June 26, 2016, 11:43:27 pm

Hm. Dame de la Licorne, what does your research say on praying for marriage? I believe dwarves do not talk on jobs.

Dwarves will only talk during green activities now, except not during the temple-related ones, AFAIK.  Anything that occurs in the tavern ("socialize" mainly from what I've seen so far) or any meeting-type area (when displaying "no job") will work, as long as the dwarves involved are standing on the same or adjacent tiles.  When I'm setting up "pre-honeymoon" couples, I only have a 1-tile meeting zone (not usually one of the new designations, I'm still getting a feel for how those really work in this respect, and how quickly) and I turn off all labors for the dwarves involved (with the others doing all the work).  Slow, but I can start getting couples established by the first summer, which speeds up the production of new labor a bit.  My in-game explanation is "they take turns going on break after a long, exhausting, dangerous trip."

-Dame de la Licorne

They became lovers when they were "no job" idling like older versions, and all four dwarfs show "Recently spoke with a lover". It's possible marriage requires a green/purple activity now though. I'll put a meeting room in their bedrooms and see if it does the trick. I'm also about to fire my miner for being an idiot when channeling out the well.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 27, 2016, 06:44:34 am

(http://i.imgur.com/3rzWFx8.png)

FINALLY!

I was fiddling with their histfig flags so I dunno if I triggered something, or burrow liberation is what did it but I've got married couples. The game no longer pauses and recenters out of the box.

EDIT: Checked with DFHack. Nix is already pregnant. Gwolfski does good work :)

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 27, 2016, 07:20:11 am

This is a masterwork dog leather journal owned by Kogan 'NCommander' Kelnakuth. On its covered is adored images of seven dwarfs. The image related to the founding of Scorchedgravel, the last Dwarven settlement.

Spring-Summer 551

So, good news, bad news, worse news time overseers log:

The good news is my matchmaking is starting to pay off.

(http://i.imgur.com/CTi83xs.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/koRhp8H.png)

With luck, Imic and Gwolfski will marry and start their own families. I've given them plenty of downtime to get to know each other more properly. I'm happy for Imic even though I kinda liked him ...

With luck, dwarven kind will continue and flourish. Perhaps we'll hear the pitter patter of little beards in the near future.

As such, I've had a new hospital laid out, and a cistern for water carved out so we'll be ready for delivery.

(http://i.imgur.com/xc01g6p.png)

Ryukan, finding his occupation as a carpenter rather useless has taken up a pick and started carving as Nix is currently on her honeymoon. Hopefully as our CMD, she'll approve of the new hospital.

Bad news:

(http://i.imgur.com/wkkPA5s.png)

We're drowning in turkeys. Since my last entry, two more clutches hatched. We've got so many birds running around that I can't see the floor anymore. We're all working on trying to get them caged and butchered, but I can feel time slowing down being around so many birds.

Course, worse news time.

I wanted to get a better idea of our cavern situation since its likely the only source of wood we'll have for the foreseeable future. As we looked down the tunnel down, we saw this.

(http://i.imgur.com/i4httWI.png)

We aren't getting into the cavern two any time soon. In good news, the butchering continues at pace, and Scorchgravels turkey population has been greatly curtailed ... right up until the peacocks decided to contribute.

Son of a bitch.

Autumn 551

Give and take is very much the theme of this year:

I was wrong, a blind orge took out "Shelly" when no one was looking. A good chunk of the cavern is on fire, but other than that we're OK. Just as I was considering a way to harvest the wood in cavern one, this came along.

(http://i.imgur.com/MmRfHp3.png)

So much for that idea. Maybe we can consider cavern 2-

(http://i.imgur.com/y3r8Nin.png)

Fuck.

Late Autumn 551

(http://i.imgur.com/pQuTexM.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/DuC1xkk.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/UECVfHA.png)

We have a buzzard problem.

(http://i.imgur.com/HsZBp2x.png)

I have a buzzard solution

Winter 551

I want to say the hospital construction is going smoothly. I really do. I'd be lying

(http://i.imgur.com/ks5rM3x.png)

Ryukan has been somewhat a disappointment as a miner. I mean yeah, she cleved the stone away, but nearly killed himself twice in the process, and when channelling out the well ... well look ...

(http://i.imgur.com/y8EunPk.png)

At least she hasn't managed to kill herself

Spring 552

Hard to believe its been two years. This is starting to become home. No one beside some tentacled horrors below have found us. The halls might be cramped, the miasma might be annoying

(http://i.imgur.com/vGPTDEy.png)

But frig, its home. I just hope Imic, Nix, Gwolfski, and Derro come back from their honeymoons soon. Tournesol and Ryukan are fun, but you know, I miss having us all together in the tavern :/

Summer 552

(http://i.imgur.com/3rzWFx8.png)

Damn, a year and a half honeymoon. I'm impressed. Nix is reporting she's already got a passenger on board too!

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Dame de la Licorne on June 27, 2016, 07:45:35 am

Quote from: NCommander on June 27, 2016, 05:47:13 am

It's possible marriage requires a green/purple activity now though.

I don't think so (I've never seen anything that might be related, anyway).  I've had dwarves get married anywhere from a month to a year after becoming lovers (some of it may be how busy they are).  Some very occasional couples seem to skip the "lovers" state entirely (or at least, my OCD checking doesn't catch them in it before they marry).

I haven't requested a dwarf yet, so please add me: Lotu, preferably as a blacksmith or metalcrafter.

-Dame de la Licorne

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 27, 2016, 07:49:40 am

Quote from: MoonyTheHuman on June 26, 2016, 10:20:24 am

Boo
is dwarfingallowedhere?

Somehow I missed this post, and yes it is, pending availability. I've added you to the list, but you won't get anyone until a baby pops out.

Quote from: Dame de la Licorne on June 27, 2016, 07:45:35 am

I don't think so (I've never seen anything that might be related, anyway).  I've had dwarves get married anywhere from a month to a year after becoming lovers (some of it may be how busy they are).  Some very occasional couples seem to skip the "lovers" state entirely (or at least, my OCD checking doesn't catch them in it before they marry).

I haven't requested a dwarf yet, so please add me: Lotu, preferably as a blacksmith or metalcrafter.

-Dame de la Licorne

Added to the deferred list, but due to your rock solid contributions, I'll give you the first baby that drops out.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Fleeting Frames on June 27, 2016, 08:00:26 am

That's a fair bit of FBs. Going to get the spider and make a zoo of the other ones?

That's really peaceful for year and half, though 3 dwarves are rather limiting. Is the hospital next to forges for magma mist training?

....I thought buzzards were bugs, but they're actually less annoying keas. Huh. Difficult to weaponize, however.

And nice marriages. Normally, being about to be married with horror from the deep lurking behind a corner would be a death flag, but dwarven mind knows without understanding.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 27, 2016, 08:13:54 am

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on June 27, 2016, 08:00:26 am

That's a fair bit of FBs. Going to get the spider and make a zoo of the other ones?

That's really peaceful for year and half, though 3 dwarves are rather limiting. Is the hospital next to forges for magma mist training?

....I thought buzzards were bugs, but they're actually less annoying keas. Huh. Difficult to weaponize, however.

And nice marriages. Normally, being about to be married with horror from the deep lurking behind a corner would be a death flag, but dwarven mind knows without understanding.

Well to be fair, the civilization is dead, in-game, dwarfs are extinct (the starting seven have no mother/father so the game made them from aether). Being married with death lurking is kinda par the course for this fort.

The hospital location was more a factor that's where the edge of the aquifer is. The well water need to be 2z deep, else the well will scoop "mud laced with water", which causes an unhappy thought and I suspect causes infections as well. I try to get a hospital going ASAP, especially since I plan to do some large digging projects and will likely have a few more cave-ins before I'm done. I had a near miss when I dumped some things in the volcano forgetting about magma mist (I could have gotten a !!dwarf!! by accident).

I'd like to do a few megaprojects with this fort, though I admit dwarf breeding by itself probably qualifies for one as is.

As for the FBs, the amber one isn't TOO scary, just impossible to reach. The spider one though, that's a fortress ender. I've lost squads of military dwarfs to webbers before. When I finally get a military, I expect it to be mostly marksdwarfs. Fortunately, I've gone literial tons of copper for cheap bolts.

Steel is going to be a serious problem for this map though. Not impossible, but def. not easy.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Derro on June 27, 2016, 08:23:50 am

This is a dark green donkey letter diary. On it is an image of Mistem 'Derro' Tishhislogem the female dwarf.

I'm queen consort now: it's kind of hard to believe. Nix and Gwolfski got married too. Looks like dwarves won't go extinct! (Take that, humans!).

One small problem though: Ncommander (shouldn't Imic be our 'commander'?) told me a few forgotten beasts had surfaced in the caverns. I hope they'll leave soon...

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Dame de la Licorne on June 27, 2016, 09:30:54 am

I've been thinking about how long it took the couples to actually get married.  Did you have standard meeting zones set up, or were they set up as tavern, library or temple?  It may be that any activity/time spent in a temple zone does not contribute to the "social time meter" required, which would slow things down.  Standard (unassigned) meeting zones may also be slow now, compared to the two other location types.  I usually have a library zone set up first (to keep my doctor's Diagnostician skill from rusting too badly), and that plus a temple are the only zones I usually set up for the first year or two.

I need to test that...

Dame de la Licorne wanders off, muttering.

-Dame de la Licorne

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Fleeting Frames on June 27, 2016, 01:56:02 pm

The well water should be 2z deep indeed, but that just means 1 additional tile of channeling - the water can still otherwise come in from 1z below.

The spider one - I was thinking of using bait (you do have furniture and turkeys. So many turkeys, it's thanksgiving!) and then locking it in for silk production. I don't think military can capture FBs alive in the first place?

Of course, with diginvaders, it might very well be able to dig/deconstruct/teleport it's way out of it - not sure how that thing works tbh.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Tournesol on June 27, 2016, 02:10:45 pm

There are buzzards here. I hope we set up a breeding program. Yes, I know they are not giant buzzards, my favourite meal, but better than nothing especially as nobody knows how to butcher the giant ones.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Fleeting Frames on June 27, 2016, 02:28:10 pm

There should be giant buzzards, tough. Joyous wilds, just you wait.

Heck, putting a fortification-windowed bit of food, drink and bucket on the mountaintop with cage trapped entranceway should help catch all kinds of distractions.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Tournesol on June 27, 2016, 02:32:05 pm

Speaking OOC, the issue is giant buzzards yield nothing at all (according to DF Wiki), yet they are my favourite kind of food. That is why I'm calling for a !!SCIENTIFIC!! breeding experiment.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 27, 2016, 03:47:37 pm

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on June 27, 2016, 01:56:02 pm

The well water should be 2z deep indeed, but that just means 1 additional tile of channeling - the water can still otherwise come in from 1z below.

The spider one - I was thinking of using bait (you do have furniture and turkeys. So many turkeys, it's thanksgiving!) and then locking it in for silk production. I don't think military can capture FBs alive in the first place?

Of course, with diginvaders, it might very well be able to dig/deconstruct/teleport it's way out of it - not sure how that thing works tbh.

digInvaders only affects "sentient"/tool using civs. FOrgotten beasts don't dig. Also, right now its off, as I would stand no chance against a siege right now. Once I have some chance, it will get turned on. Never thought of just channeling the well squares one deep, I just make the whole thing multi-z level.

Quote from: Tournesol on June 27, 2016, 02:10:45 pm

There are buzzards here. I hope we set up a breeding program. Yes, I know they are not giant buzzards, my favourite meal, but better than nothing especially as nobody knows how to butcher the giant ones.

Whatever I can catch, I train :)

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Fleeting Frames on June 27, 2016, 04:25:01 pm

Nah, their butchering return data isn't just added to the wiki yet; there are lot of articles on giant creatures like that. They're about same size as giant keas (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Giant_kea), so I'd expect similar returns.

And NCommander, I meant more the mechanics of how they work (will they dig? Or deconstruct? Or both? What if they are unable to path due hanging in mid-air? Can they deconstruct walls from above, unlike dwarves? What about from below? ), though not applying to everything is surprising.

One advantage of tiered well is that if a dwarf falls in they can get out by ramps without always falling to the bottom and getting injured like with stairs.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: Dame de la Licorne on June 27, 2016, 04:38:41 pm

Hi!

Something else I was thinking about on the way back from work.  Since FBs have appeared, I'm guessing you've left invaders on, which means that your most precious resource is likely at the biggest risk at the moment (unless Scorchedgravel is completely walled off from the surface).  It sounds like there are plenty of chicks/poults/other FPS drainers around, so you may want to consider using them as your early warning systems, or finding some other way of protecting your future labor force.

-Dame de la Licorne

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NRDL on June 27, 2016, 05:22:51 pm

Dear journal

Honeymoon's been fun.  To be honest, I'm starting to miss my pickaxe.  Oh wait, did I actually write down that I got married?  Silly me, Gwolfski and I got hitched!  No time wasted too, wasn't sure if my little ore in the smelter got there before or after the nuptials.  I wonder what parts it'll be born with.  This is all quite exciting.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: pikachu17 on June 29, 2016, 10:34:33 am

dwarf me as one of the babies. more specifically name it "Pichu17"

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 30, 2016, 06:41:21 am

We have our first real defenses in place, a new lava-powered garbage dump, and a fair bit more. Update coming soonish (I hope). First birth should happen any (in game) day now)

First baby born in Scorchgravel to Imic and Derro. Fortress population now stands at 8.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Last Dwarfs in The World
Post by: NCommander on June 30, 2016, 07:19:38 am

This is a masterwork dog leather journal owned by Kogan 'NCommander' Kelnakuth. On its covered is adored images of seven dwarfs. The image related to the founding of Scorchedgravel, the last Dwarven settlement.

Summer 552

(http://i.imgur.com/eFlbxC0.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/alPmY1R.png)

With marriage in the air, we've had statues installed to commemorate the event. With both Nix and Derro now having ore in the smelter, I've turned our attention to our defenses, or lack of them. The fact of the matter is we're going to be found, sooner or later. Turtling away isn't an option, we'll simply be dug out and history will repeat.

If our species is to continue, the fact of the matter that of the seven us, only three of us are expendable, me, Tournesol, and Ryukan. Three vs. an army. Won't work. But, if we can inflict wounds on them at a distance and hold the high ground, we may have a chance. As such, I've decided to do something with all this stone we have laying around.

(http://i.imgur.com/YMDAlTn.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/8FkQFMd.png)

We're going to build a tower, fill it with bolts, and shoot anything that comes close to Scorchedgravel. Right now, I'm building it 3 urist high, but maybe in the future we'll expand it.

For the first time since we've gotten here, I'm working in my trade as a weaponsmith.

(http://i.imgur.com/xYB3zPq.png)

And taking advantage of our nicely growing stocks of metal

(http://i.imgur.com/mnjmrap.png)

Autumn 552

Work on the tower continues. With the exception of the butchers/tanner shop, I've also moved all our industries to an expanded workshop row.

(http://i.imgur.com/lu8J59A.png)

Derro has been on light work due to her pregnancy, but she's gone outside and brought in a good haul of plants to help keep variety in our diets. I've been against her going outside, but she's the only herbalist we've got, and well, I rather keep her happy.

(http://i.imgur.com/8gk8eQR.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/1DrhutW.png)

I finished the first set of bolts earlier in the summer; 500 should do as a starter batch, and I'll kick more out as we need them.

(http://i.imgur.com/eKmhn3Z.png)

I've even improved my cooking as well:

(http://i.imgur.com/HhMBvaQ.png)

Meanwhile, more trouble is rumbling below. We're not going to get into the caverns anytime soon at this rate:

(http://i.imgur.com/an7Rrx2.png)

---

Winter 552

The archery tower is complete! I've had targets installed in the first and second level. My attention now turns to what we should wear. Tournesol is a good armorsmith, but I'm worried both about the weight of the armor slowing us down, especially during training. For the time being, I've decided to take advantage of the piles of leather we have laying around from the great bird slaughter of 551.

(http://i.imgur.com/r46VSQk.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/XGl8PgI.png)

Nix has also become the first legendary dwarf, having obtained full understanding of the pick.

(http://i.imgur.com/vFmuuPq.png)

I've also gotten an idea of how to improve our defenses. We've got dogs. We've got lots of dogs. We can train dogs. Gwolfski is going to train our dogs.

(http://i.imgur.com/t58bsgR.png)

Gwolfski has a wolf-pack.

(http://i.imgur.com/YbtFodB.png)

---

(http://i.imgur.com/xtMBCZf.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/8A1H6sL.png)

There is life here.

(http://i.imgur.com/QCkIEHt.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/tJGY7xK.png)

We will survive.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NRDL on June 30, 2016, 07:27:29 am

Dear journal

It's official.  I have a daughter.  I must admit it's a relief to be able to carry my child on my back as opposed to in my belly.  Gwolfski and I are so happy, we're still deciding on a name. 

Don't worry journal, you'll be the first to know.  Till then, it's a digging I go.

((of course, we'll only name the kid if nobody claims her for dorfing))

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Gwolfski on June 30, 2016, 07:41:17 am

Journal of Gwolfski

A happy place this is to me. The last though we are, we will survive and prosper. Today I was told to start training the dogs. I like dogs. It's a nice job.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: peregarrett on June 30, 2016, 08:08:15 am

PTW.

Quote from: NCommander on June 30, 2016, 07:19:38 am

(http://i.imgur.com/alPmY1R.png)

The Blockaded Buck, huh?
"From now on this Buck is Blockaded from whole herd of Does (not like we have plenty of them, though) and restricted to his Fiancee."

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Fleeting Frames on June 30, 2016, 08:09:20 am

Dog leather journal?

How many did you butcher, butcher?

Speaking of which, what's the kennel for?

As for that archery tower...Won't the invaders dig through it, hm? The bolts will not kill them by the time they reach the walls, assuming they don't go diagonally straight to below from map edge.

Though it is still useful against giant wildlife and preparation for accidents. Mm, giant buzzards.

Though Mistem will probably be the happiest with four dozen rose gold bars produced in the fortress. She gets to personally work on them, on top of being a mother!

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on June 30, 2016, 08:21:22 am

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on June 30, 2016, 08:09:20 am

Dog leather journal?

How many did you butcher, butcher?

Speaking of which, what's the kennel for?

As for that archery tower...Won't the invaders dig through it, hm? The bolts will not kill them by the time they reach the walls, assuming they don't go diagonally straight to below from map edge.

Though it is still useful against giant wildlife and preparation for accidents. Mm, giant buzzards.

Though Mistem will probably be the happiest with four dozen rose gold bars produced in the fortress. She gets to personally work on them, on top of being a mother!

I actually built the kennels out of habit. When I started playing DF, you had to war train at them, and I always seem to build one before I remember I can war train with just an animal training zone. As it exists now, kennels aren't THAT useful, though I might just train up a trapper for the lolwut factor.

(a good trapper can catch faster than a fleet of cats can).

I've always wanted to legitimately train up a legendary animal dissector/fish cleaner. The former is hard, the later is borderline impossible (I've never seen a moghopper at all).

As for the archery tower, digInvaders is *very* slow in disassembling things, I think its 1/20th normal Dwarven speed. My plan is to build chains around the tower base, then attach the war dogs there. I may rig the dogs with cage traps or weapon traps. A dedicated attack MIGHT get through, but it will be a long time before the AI really ramps up the sieges. The problem I have to worry about is bolts going through armors. Gobllins and humans can bring iron armor, and 43.03 brings back full armor for enemies.

Invaders should path right to the dogs, and then get bolted to death. I kinda want to go with cage traps as it would allow me to catch megabeasts if there are any nearby, or anything that decides my dogs are tasty.

EDIT: NRDL, your offspring got the nickname Kahlish as it was next on the list. I still have two deferred dorfings left.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Fleeting Frames on June 30, 2016, 08:38:28 am

So, not unlearning not building kennels in 4 years....How many years have you played DF? I myself only started this year XD

That said, I'd value a dwarf higher than any amount of cats. Still, one possibility for legendary fish cleaner might be using a ghostly one - they would be able to path into water and catch.

And hm. So diginvaders doesn't actually dig at all, merely deconstruct? And that speed....Seems like it'd be more of a slight annoyance with targeting pathing than any threat to present or pre-planning overseer.

.....Ahahaha, bait wall + minecart trap = Everything sentient dies.

Granted, that's not really different from just the second, but this way one can force the enemy to come to your fortress instead of standing out far away from Indiana Jones' bad dream.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on June 30, 2016, 08:49:41 am

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on June 30, 2016, 08:38:28 am

So, not unlearning not building kennels in 4 years....How many years have you played DF? I myself only started this year XD

That said, I'd value a dwarf higher than any amount of cats. Still, one possibility for legendary fish cleaner might be using a ghostly one - they would be able to path into water and catch.

And hm. So diginvaders doesn't actually dig at all, merely deconstruct? And that speed....Seems like it'd be more of a slight annoyance with targeting pathing than any threat to present or pre-planning overseer.

.....Ahahaha, bait wall + minecart trap = Everything sentient dies.

Granted, that's not really different from just the second, but this way one can force the enemy to come to your fortress instead of standing out far away from Indiana Jones' bad dream.

I officially started back with DF2010; Deathgate was my first turn here. I didn't play too much of DF2014 for awhile, I had save corruption kill a ten year old fort, and I ragequit for a very long time. I've also run 23a (2D) and 40d forts so its a fairly well engranerad habit.

digInvaders is meant to make turtling not a viable strategy while not being annoying; basically, you can't wall yourself off and call it good for 3-4 years, but its also trying to avoid making lots of holes in the scenery from enemy dig shafts. It's been awhile since I checked, but it also only kicks in when the game is in SEIGE mode, ambushes can't dig. They can dig and deconstruct to get to your dwarfs. The behavior of the AI is otherwise unchanged, they'll beeline for anything friendly on the map and try and kill it first. Thus the dogs should work as bait.

Trapping has some advantages. Vermin can be tamed, and if adopted as a pet, the dwarf will actually put the vermin on their shoulder so you don't need to worry about FPS lag, and if you get purring maggots, you can make the legendary Dwarven Cheese. You can also just set traps and capture vermin that way but its never worked very well for me when I've tried it. Unfortunately, its hard to get dwarfs to adopt ANYTHING for happiness bonuses; they'll only adopt their preferences.

EDIT: Trapping was somewhat more useful in 23a because you could trap the cave river and the chasm, and get a steady supply of vermin. It was actually possible to feed a fort off dwarven cheese alone if you were dedicated to it. In 3D versions, its hard to get enough vermin to make that viable.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Derro on June 30, 2016, 08:58:09 am

This is a dark green donkey letter diary. On it is an image of Mistem 'Derro' Tishhislogem the dwarf.

Dear diary: I'm a mother now, and so is Nix. My son (it feels weird to write that) is fortunately completely healthy. I'm sure he and Nix's baby will get along.

People have been getting more positive, it seems. Now that life has been brought forth in this age of death, people don't feel like we're doomed anymore. Yes, we may face difficulties (the horrible monsters down in the caverns are a constant reminder of that), but we can overcome them. The nine of us may be the last of the dwarves, but that also makes us the strongest.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Fleeting Frames on June 30, 2016, 09:20:20 am

Ouch on that save corruption. Haven't experienced anything so bad myself, though I suppose one of the worse ones was yesterday, did embark with 0-dwarf civ to test whether I get third migration wave as well as visitors and siegers, and after the third one arrived and I had designated initial tavern and libary I decided "okay, I've messed with this fort for hours and hours ever since embark. Time to designate bunch of stuff and catch some shut-eye"...Game crashes when I try to set item material in workshop. Ah well, I had fun designing it and was going to shelve it anyway.....But I didn't get to perform the bits of science on meeting areas or sieges.

However, for dig-invaders....I suppose it does complicate just throwing up a wall/hatch cover onto entrance, but if they still target dogs first ahahaha. Though I suppose it hurts surface-only forts a bit more, predictably stationary enemy is like something out of a ‼science‼ journal.

And while dwarven milk does have it's appeal in roast, I've never seen a purring maggot + plant gathering has quadratic trade value benefit anyway.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on June 30, 2016, 09:36:34 am

Plant gathering is actually a very underrated skill IMHO. A legendary herbalist can feed an entire fortress on their own. What I tend to do is farm the underground crops, and then let a herbalist pick surface crops for variety. Plant picking a 3x3 embark will get you a massive amount of variety and stuff without having to deal with aboveground farmplots.

Interestingly enough, I look a look at region-pops. I've got a fairly lame selection of animals available to me, ogres are nearly extinct and the cats have already killed off flies. I may DFHack in more underground critters, cave dragons would be nice.

Spoiler: region-pops (click to show/hide)

Plants:
ALFALFA                                  innumerable
ASH                                      innumerable
BABY TOES SUCCULENT                      innumerable
BAMBOO, ARROW                            innumerable
BEET                                     innumerable
BERRIES_FISHER                           innumerable
BERRY_SUN                                innumerable
BLACKBERRY                               innumerable
BLACK_CAP                                innumerable
BLOOD_THORN                              innumerable
BLUE SEDGE                               innumerable
BUBBLE BULBS                             innumerable
BUSH_QUARRY                              innumerable
CAPER                                    innumerable
CAVE MOSS                                innumerable
CHERRY                                   innumerable
CHESTNUT                                 innumerable
CHICORY                                  innumerable
DOWNY GRASS                              innumerable
DROPSEED GRASS                           innumerable
FEATHER                                  innumerable
FESCUE GRASS                             innumerable
FIELD SEDGE                              innumerable
FLOOR FUNGI                              innumerable
FUNGIWOOD                                innumerable
GINKGO                                   innumerable
GOBLIN_CAP                               innumerable
GRASS_LONGLAND                           innumerable
GRASS_TAIL_PIG                           innumerable
GRASS_WHEAT_CAVE                         innumerable
HAIR GRASS                               innumerable
HIGHWOOD                                 innumerable
LENTIL                                   innumerable
MEADOW-GRASS                             innumerable
MUSHROOM_CUP_DIMPLE                      innumerable
MUSHROOM_HELMET_PLUMP                    innumerable
NEEDLE GRASS                             innumerable
NETHER_CAP                               innumerable
OAK                                      innumerable
PEA                                      innumerable
PEACH                                    innumerable
PEAR                                     innumerable
PEBBLE PLANTS                            innumerable
PERSIMMON                                innumerable
POD_SWEET                                innumerable
POTATO                                   innumerable
PURPLE_AMARANTH                          innumerable
RADISH                                   innumerable
RASPBERRY                                innumerable
RED_SPINACH                              innumerable
REEDGRASS                                innumerable
REED_ROPE                                innumerable
RYEGRASS                                 innumerable
SAGUARO                                  innumerable
SAND_PEAR                                innumerable
SPINACH                                  innumerable
SPORE_TREE                               innumerable
STRING_BEAN                              innumerable
TOWER_CAP                                innumerable
TUNNEL_TUBE                              innumerable
TURNIP                                   innumerable
VELVET GRASS                             innumerable
VINE_WHIP                                innumerable
WALNUT                                   innumerable
WEED_BLADE                               innumerable
WEED_RAT                                 innumerable
WILLOW                                   innumerable

Creatures and vermin:
BAT                                      825
BAT_GIANT                                45
BIRD_BUZZARD                             30
BIRD_COCKATIEL                           273
BIRD_FALCON_PEREGRINE                    21
BIRD_OWL_GREAT_HORNED                    53
BIRD_RAVEN                               277
BIRD_SWALLOW_CAVE                        565
BIRD_SWALLOW_CAVE_GIANT                  27
BLIND_CAVE_OGRE                          1
CAP_HOPPER                               447
CREEPY_CRAWLER                           235
CROCODILE_CAVE                           20
CRUNDLE                                  509
DEMON_14                                 innumerable
DEMON_17                                 innumerable
DEMON_18                                 innumerable
DEMON_2                                  innumerable
DEMON_20                                 innumerable
DEMON_4                                  innumerable
DEMON_5                                  innumerable
DRALTHA                                  29
ECHIDNA                                  24
ELK_BIRD                                 19
FAIRY                                    295
FISH_CAVE                                378
FLY                                      0
FLY_ACORN                                0
GIANT_CAMEL_1_HUMP                       15
GIANT_CAMEL_2_HUMP                       25
GIANT_DINGO                              13
GIANT_GREAT_HORNED_OWL                   18
GIANT_SPARROW                            24
GORLAK                                   42
GREMLIN                                  1
HELMET_SNAKE                             18
HUNGRY_HEAD                              142
IMP_FIRE                                 23
LIZARD_RHINO_TWO_LEGGED                  329
MAGMA_CRAB                               29
MANERA                                   25
MOLE_DOG_NAKED                           28
MOLE_GIANT                               44
MOSQUITO                                 3860
OLM                                      326
OLM_GIANT                                27
PIXIE                                    3692
PLUMP_HELMET_MAN                         49
POND_GRABBER                             20
RAT                                      375
RAT_GIANT                                21
RAT_LARGE                                16
REACHER                                  33
SNAKE_FIRE                               234
SPIDER_CAVE                              447
SPIDER_CAVE_GIANT                        4
TOAD                                     307
TOAD_GIANT_CAVE                          29
TROGLODYTE                               33
TROLL                                    24
VORACIOUS_CAVE_CRAWLER                   24
WAMBLER_FLUFFY                           430

The interesting bit is I have access to sun berries as a possible type of grass; the counterpart of silver barb for good/evil exclusive plants (and silver barb is mostly useless unless you're going nuts on dying). I haven't brewed sunshine (which is the most value booze in the game) in years so I might actually do aboveground farming in this fort. I also am going to have to spider breed. Working on cavern 1 is coming up soonish.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Fleeting Frames on June 30, 2016, 10:29:17 am

Herbalist also skills up really fast and easy (Less than two seasons to legend from single d-p).

That region-pops list (not list-all, I assume) is surprising. Blackberry and Pear on badlands? It is classed as "Any Temperate", I guess for those biomes either temperature might matter or it's distance from pole would be considered "temperate". I previously assumed they would grow only on biomes with "Temperate" in name.

Or maybe not. "Wait, Chestnut?" *doublechecks* Yup, that is any temperate broadleaf forest. Got any of it, Ash, Alder, Birch Maple or Oak growing?

The presence of Rope Reed and willow does indicate at the very least the existence of some murky pools in this badland region somewhere.

Of those animals, I guess the Cave Crocodile, Demon 17 and Giant Cave Spider are most attractive. The surface is pretty boring, no giant beasts in joyous wilds I guess. Peregine falcons without keas, tho.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on June 30, 2016, 10:35:31 am

Here's list-all:

Spoiler: list-all (click to show/hide)

Plants:
ALFALFA                                  innumerable
ASH                                      innumerable
BABY TOES SUCCULENT                      innumerable
BAMBOO, ARROW                            innumerable
BEET                                     innumerable
BERRIES_FISHER                           innumerable
BERRY_SUN                                innumerable
BLACKBERRY                               innumerable
BLACK_CAP                                innumerable
BLOOD_THORN                              innumerable
BLUE SEDGE                               innumerable
BUBBLE BULBS                             innumerable
BUSH_QUARRY                              innumerable
CAPER                                    innumerable
CAVE MOSS                                innumerable
CHERRY                                   innumerable
CHESTNUT                                 innumerable
CHICORY                                  innumerable
DOWNY GRASS                              innumerable
DROPSEED GRASS                           innumerable
FEATHER                                  innumerable
FESCUE GRASS                             innumerable
FIELD SEDGE                              innumerable
FLOOR FUNGI                              innumerable
FUNGIWOOD                                innumerable
GINKGO                                   innumerable
GOBLIN_CAP                               innumerable
GRASS_LONGLAND                           innumerable
GRASS_TAIL_PIG                           innumerable
GRASS_WHEAT_CAVE                         innumerable
HAIR GRASS                               innumerable
HIGHWOOD                                 innumerable
LENTIL                                   innumerable
MEADOW-GRASS                             innumerable
MUSHROOM_CUP_DIMPLE                      innumerable
MUSHROOM_HELMET_PLUMP                    innumerable
NEEDLE GRASS                             innumerable
NETHER_CAP                               innumerable
OAK                                      innumerable
PEA                                      innumerable
PEACH                                    innumerable
PEAR                                     innumerable
PEBBLE PLANTS                            innumerable
PERSIMMON                                innumerable
POD_SWEET                                innumerable
POTATO                                   innumerable
PURPLE_AMARANTH                          innumerable
RADISH                                   innumerable
RASPBERRY                                innumerable
RED_SPINACH                              innumerable
REEDGRASS                                innumerable
REED_ROPE                                innumerable
RYEGRASS                                 innumerable
SAGUARO                                  innumerable
SAND_PEAR                                innumerable
SPINACH                                  innumerable
SPORE_TREE                               innumerable
STRING_BEAN                              innumerable
TOWER_CAP                                innumerable
TUNNEL_TUBE                              innumerable
TURNIP                                   innumerable
VELVET GRASS                             innumerable
VINE_WHIP                                innumerable
WALNUT                                   innumerable
WEED_BLADE                               innumerable
WEED_RAT                                 innumerable
WILLOW                                   innumerable

Creatures and vermin:
ALBATROSS_MAN                            129
ANT                                      innumerable
BAT                                      26294
BAT_GIANT                                1063
BEAR_BLACK                               8
BEAR_GRIZZLY                             5
BEAVER                                   494
BEETLE                                   innumerable
BIRD_ALBATROSS                           514
BIRD_BLUEJAY                             2658
BIRD_BUZZARD                             267
BIRD_COCKATIEL                           3700
BIRD_CROW                                3197
BIRD_FALCON_PEREGRINE                    463
BIRD_GRACKLE                             554
BIRD_KAKAPO                              75
BIRD_KIWI                                29
BIRD_LOVEBIRD_PEACH-FACED                1740
BIRD_MAGPIE                              2004
BIRD_OSPREY                              1054
BIRD_OWL_GREAT_HORNED                    263
BIRD_PENGUIN                             48
BIRD_PENGUIN_EMPEROR                     56
BIRD_PENGUIN_GIANT                       44
BIRD_PENGUIN_LITTLE                      55
BIRD_PUFFIN                              57
BIRD_RAVEN                               6767
BIRD_SWALLOW_CAVE                        26058
BIRD_SWALLOW_CAVE_GIANT                  221
BIRD_VULTURE                             33
BLIND_CAVE_OGRE                          497
BLOOD_MAN                                850
BOBCAT                                   8
BUGBAT                                   197
BUMBLEBEE                                innumerable
CAMEL_1_HUMP_MAN                         57
CAMEL_2_HUMP_MAN                         49
CAP_HOPPER                               18282
CAVE_BLOB                                10733
CAVE_DRAGON                              58
COUGAR                                   8
COYOTE                                   64
CRAB                                     10778
CRAB_MAN                                 162
CREEPING_EYE                             10363
CREEPY_CRAWLER                           10906
CROCODILE_CAVE                           441
CRUNDLE                                  10243
CUTTLEFISH                               7544
CUTTLEFISH_MAN                           96
DEMON_12                                 innumerable
DEMON_14                                 innumerable
DEMON_15                                 innumerable
DEMON_17                                 innumerable
DEMON_18                                 innumerable
DEMON_2                                  innumerable
DEMON_20                                 innumerable
DEMON_21                                 innumerable
DEMON_22                                 innumerable
DEMON_4                                  innumerable
DEMON_5                                  innumerable
DINGO                                    134
DINGO_MAN                                40
DRALTHA                                  215
ECHIDNA                                  420
ELEMENTMAN_FIRE                          894
ELEMENTMAN_MAGMA                         674
ELEMENTMAN_MUD                           766
ELEPHANT_SEAL                            55
ELEPHANT_SEAL_MAN                        40
ELK_BIRD                                 1846
FAIRY                                    3104
FISH_ANCHOVY                             8464
FISH_BLUEFISH                            325
FISH_CAVE                                16458
FISH_COD                                 540
FISH_CONGER_EEL                          301
FISH_FLOUNDER                            4582
FISH_HAGFISH                             4279
FISH_HAKE                                5129
FISH_HALIBUT                             432
FISH_HERRING                             9884
FISH_LAMPREY_BROOK                       10106
FISH_LAMPREY_SEA                         991
FISH_MACKEREL                            7297
FISH_MARLIN                              340
FISH_MOLLY_SAILFIN                       6042
FISH_OPAH                                360
FISH_RATFISH_SPOTTED                     4882
FISH_RAY_BAT                             5935
FISH_RAY_THORNBACK                       6307
FISH_SALMON                              12016
FISH_SEAHORSE                            6259
FISH_SHAD                                13699
FISH_SKATE_COMMON                        400
FISH_SOLE                                5501
FISH_STURGEON                            980
FISH_SUNFISH_OCEAN                       400
FISH_SWORDFISH                           420
FISH_TROUT_STEELHEAD                     14335
FISH_TUNA_BLUEFIN                        1189
FLESH_BALL                               9535
FLY                                      76051
FLY_ACORN                                17242
GIANT_ALBATROSS                          369
GIANT_BEAVER                             304
GIANT_CAMEL_1_HUMP                       94
GIANT_CAMEL_2_HUMP                       141
GIANT_CRAB                               300
GIANT_CUTTLEFISH                         229
GIANT_DINGO                              77
GIANT_EAGLE                              157
GIANT_ELEPHANT_SEAL                      49
GIANT_GREAT_HORNED_OWL                   111
GIANT_HARP_SEAL                          35
GIANT_HORSESHOE_CRAB                     7238
GIANT_JAGUAR                             7
GIANT_LEOPARD_SEAL                       6
GIANT_MINK                               418
GIANT_MOON_SNAIL                         85
GIANT_NAUTILUS                           305
GIANT_OCTOPUS                            324
GIANT_ORCA                               530
GIANT_OSPREY                             392
GIANT_OTTER                              209
GIANT_PUFFIN                             51
GIANT_SPARROW                            78
GIANT_SPERM_WHALE                        461
GIANT_SPONGE                             8527
GIANT_WALRUS                             34
GIGANTIC SQUID                           495
GORLAK                                   1414
GRAY_LANGUR                              366
GREEN_DEVOURER                           229
GREMLIN                                  70
GROUNDHOG                                122
HARP_SEAL                                40
HARP_SEAL_MAN                            24
HELMET_SNAKE                             526
HONEY_BEE                                innumerable
HORSESHOE_CRAB                           5923
HORSESHOE_CRAB_MAN                       172
HUNGRY_HEAD                              3787
IMP_FIRE                                 769
JABBERER                                 864
JAGUAR                                   16
JAGUAR_MAN                               25
JELLYFISH_SEA_NETTLE                     928
LEOPARD                                  26
LEOPARD_MAN                              37
LEOPARD_SEAL                             21
LEOPARD_SEAL_MAN                         14
LIZARD_RHINO_TWO_LEGGED                  1990
LOBSTER_CAVE                             14961
LOUSE                                    innumerable
MAGGOT_PURRING                           27225
MAGMA_CRAB                               865
MANERA                                   865
MINK                                     551
MINK_MAN                                 95
MOLEMARIAN                               76
MOLE_DOG_NAKED                           935
MOLE_GIANT                               1489
MOON_SNAIL                               innumerable
MOON_SNAIL_MAN                           68
MOSQUITO                                 72828
MUSKOX                                   19
MUSSEL                                   innumerable
NARWHAL                                  54
NARWHAL MAN                              47
NARWHAL, GIANT                           48
NAUTILUS                                 9845
NAUTILUS_MAN                             96
OCTOPUS                                  1783
OCTOPUS_MAN                              153
OLM                                      14878
OLM_GIANT                                664
OPOSSUM                                  149
ORCA                                     379
ORCA_MAN                                 116
OSPREY_MAN                               162
OTTER_MAN                                133
OYSTER                                   innumerable
PENGUIN MAN                              40
PIXIE                                    36362
PLATYPUS                                 304
PLATYPUS, GIANT                          475
PLUMP_HELMET_MAN                         995
POND_GRABBER                             884
PUFFIN_MAN                               42
RAT                                      7678
RAT_GIANT                                320
RAT_LARGE                                542
REACHER                                  741
RIVER OTTER                              285
RUTHERER                                 134
SEA OTTER                                153
SEA_SERPENT                              23
SHARK_ANGEL                              280
SHARK_BASKING                            260
SHARK_BLUE                               622
SHARK_FRILL                              379
SHARK_GREAT_WHITE                        400
SHARK_HAMMERHEAD                         420
SHARK_MAKO_LONGFIN                       420
SHARK_MAKO_SHORTFIN                      240
SHARK_NURSE                              260
SHARK_SPINY_DOGFISH                      480
SHARK_WOBBEGONG_SPOTTED                  440
SKINK                                    2212
SLUG                                     innumerable
SNAIL                                    innumerable
SNAKE_FIRE                               9285
SPERM_WHALE                              433
SPERM_WHALE_MAN                          208
SPIDER_CAVE                              16467
SPIDER_CAVE_GIANT                        181
SPONGE_MAN                               360
SQUID                                    9973
SQUID MAN                                149
SQUIRREL_GRAY                            1074
SQUIRREL_RED                             1003
TERMITE                                  innumerable
THRIPS                                   innumerable
TICK                                     innumerable
TOAD                                     5646
TOAD_GIANT_CAVE                          655
TROGLODYTE                               1687
TROLL                                    819
VORACIOUS_CAVE_CRAWLER                   728
WALRUS                                   34
WALRUS_MAN                               21
WAMBLER_FLUFFY                           4527
WOLF                                     78
WORM                                     innumerable

Looking at what I've made beds out of, I have feather wood and highwood for sure. Colonies also shows I have honeybees oddly enough (wasn't expecting that). May try my hand at training up a legendary beekeeper and wax worker (another thing I've never done). Beekeeping is annoying without workflow, but 43.03 fixes that nicely.

I was looking at the tracker and it looks like siege weaponry *finally* shoots straight again. Once I've secured access to wood, I'm fairly tempted to see if I can make this fortress defendable with balista by installing a bunch in the tower(s)

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Fleeting Frames on June 30, 2016, 10:51:31 am

Same plant lists between those...not really surprising. Do mention if you find one of those temperate broadleaf plants, though even if you do there's still no brown recluse spiders on that list.

Regarding bee-keeping, I've never seen a dwarf have preference for mead.

As for siege weaponry, you're going to need some discipline training if you mean actual antique siege weapon buildings - that said, wide open areas are probably worst places to use them.

Otherwise, with the aquifer there some waterguns to RPG the map seems possible.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on June 30, 2016, 10:54:23 am

Watergun + open volcano == fun.

Seige weaponary can actually shoot on an arc; approximately 20 degrees from the shooter. Its suppose to target an enemy and send a bolt flying at the enemy. I was tempted to build a bridge over the volcano to make an actual entrance to the fort and then line balista on the far side of that entranceway, and perhaps station marksdwarfs to the sides.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Dame de la Licorne on June 30, 2016, 10:58:07 am

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on June 30, 2016, 10:51:31 am

Regarding bee-keeping, I've never seen a dwarf have preference for mead.

I've had at least one in every fort I've played since the honey industry was added.  And before the bee colony bug got fixed, it was very difficult to find any temperate embark that had bees to use, so it was almost impossible to meet the need if you weren't somewhere tropical.  Now it's much easier.   :D

-Dame de la Licorne

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Fleeting Frames on June 30, 2016, 10:58:53 am

Hah, I need to build more forts then :p

Building a fort inside the magma tube is difficult fun, until you get a magma-safe sieger, after which it is ‼fun‼

Over has the issue that you don't know where siegers arrive from yet...though I've seen multiple reports that they stick with same place of arrival, so after initial band of 10 goblins versus 100 dogs it might be viable.

Albeit I'd still put wooden spears/minecarts there.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on June 30, 2016, 11:03:55 am

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on June 30, 2016, 10:58:53 am

Hah, I need to build more forts then :p

Building a fort inside the magma tube is difficult fun, until you get a magma-safe sieger, after which it is ‼fun‼

Over has the issue that you don't know where siegers arrive from yet...though I've seen multiple reports that they stick with same place of arrival, so after initial band of 10 goblins versus 100 dogs it might be viable.

Albeit I'd still put wooden spears/minecarts there.

The very first baby we had has a mead preference. ^_^. That's going to be a pain though given mead has an obnoxiously long production chain, and jugs in the wrong stockpile break the entire thing. I've never managed to get high quantity of mead in any fortress, and as far as I can tell, beekeeping levels up *very* slowly.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Dame de la Licorne on June 30, 2016, 11:07:31 am

Quote from: NCommander on June 30, 2016, 11:03:55 am

I've never managed to get high quantity of mead in any fortress, and as far as I can tell, beekeeping levels up *very* slowly.

Yes it does, but there is the satisfaction in managing to satisfy one of the more difficult yet possible wants.

-Dame de la Licorne

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Fleeting Frames on June 30, 2016, 11:13:00 am

At least bees are pretty common, biome-wise. Not like those plants that have only chance to grow in their biome :p

Still, given beekeeping's effort and features compared to other food industries or even getting adamantine it seems like a modding pack bait.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on June 30, 2016, 11:16:38 am

Well, if I can remember the production chain off the top of my head,

It's hives, 1/3rd for split, 2/3rd for production -> press + jug -> make mead job -> profit. I can make both the hives and jugs from fire clay which helps a lot, and then get production going. Might be worth going now, it takes a LOT of time to get enough bees to get a good amount of honey going. I dunno if I'll be playing later today

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Fleeting Frames on June 30, 2016, 11:30:03 am

Perhaps, but if it is just for a single dwarf child for over a decade, they can appropriately make their own mead, in their own beekeeping quarters near the hospital. Then, if they die, there is no longer need to make mead too.

(For a single hive, 2 drinks per season, 3 seasons to get mead, 5 drink per brew...Eh, it's close, especially when given meadskin.)

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Imic on June 30, 2016, 01:35:31 pm

These lamds now comtain life.
Life, is hope.
Hope, will keep us alive.
FOR THE DWARVES!!!

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Gwolfski on June 30, 2016, 01:44:51 pm

Journal of Gwolfski

I thought about some stuff, and mead's the best drink for the little baby ones is mead. Two hives and a bit of jugs should do, I think. We won't need too much of it, as few as we are. Heh.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: MoonyTheHuman on June 30, 2016, 01:46:35 pm

Can i haz turnburger?

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Gwolfski on June 30, 2016, 01:47:33 pm

Quote from: MoonyTheHuman on June 30, 2016, 01:46:35 pm

Can i haz turnburger?

Its not succesion

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: MoonyTheHuman on June 30, 2016, 01:50:37 pm

Oh.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on June 30, 2016, 03:06:58 pm

Quote from: MoonyTheHuman on June 30, 2016, 01:50:37 pm

Oh.

It's community, though you'll get a dwarf and can RP if you like.

Right now, I think I broke the game. I'm getting a forgotten beast a season. Cavern II has become Beastopia, and I've got a rather scary three webbers down there right now. A giant mole killed off another one, so I've got four FB on the map entotal.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Dame de la Licorne on June 30, 2016, 03:10:43 pm

Quote from: NCommander on June 30, 2016, 03:06:58 pm

Right now, I think I broke the game. I'm getting a forgotten beast a season. Cavern II has become Beastopia, and I've got a rather scary three webbers down there right now. A giant mole killed off another one, so I've got four FB on the map entotal.

Um.  Did we get the entire world mad at us somehow?  What did our ancestors DO?

Edit: Did you generate a pocket/smaller size world, or play with the megabeast/cavern settings during world generation?

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on June 30, 2016, 03:15:10 pm

Quote from: Dame de la Licorne on June 30, 2016, 03:10:43 pm

Um.  Did we get the entire world made at us somehow?  What did our ancestors DO?

The game is very determined to make sure I don't get another single log. I've got my to-be-marksmen training as hammerdwarfs right now in an attempt to build up their discipline, and I'm probably going to cave and give them iron or bronze armor.

Here's the save: http://dffd.bay12games.com/submit.php?action=message&fid=12204

I decided to see what was going on and ran reveal to check the caverns. In addition to the bad year blimps in the caverns, I've got hostile animal people down there *with blowguns*. I've never seen a blowgun in game but I vaguely remember they're distributing lethal when I tried them in the object testing arena ...

It's a medium sized world, but I genned it with the highest beasts/savagery. I still don't usually get a picket line of evil in the depths though ...

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on June 30, 2016, 03:29:18 pm

Oh screw me, the newest webber that showed up CAN FLY. The caverns are sealed, but that's a fortress ending threat right now.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Dame de la Licorne on June 30, 2016, 03:31:59 pm

Quote from: NCommander on June 30, 2016, 03:15:10 pm

I decided to see what was going on and ran reveal to check the caverns. In addition to the bad year blimps in the caverns, I've got hostile animal people down there *with blowguns*. I've never seen a blowgun in game but I vaguely remember they're distributing lethal when I tried them in the object testing arena ...

The last time I ran into those...you're probably going to want the best anti-blunt armor you can make.  Just saying.  Unless they've been adjusted/fixed since (I haven't run into them since the shift to the 42.xx series so I may quite a bit out of date).

Quote from: NCommander on June 30, 2016, 03:29:18 pm

Oh screw me, the newest webber that showed up CAN FLY. The caverns are sealed, but that's a fortress ending threat right now.

Uh.  Oh.  This...is going to be !!FUN!!.

-Dame de la Licorne

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Imic on June 30, 2016, 03:33:15 pm

Quote from: NCommander on June 30, 2016, 03:29:18 pm

Oh screw me, the newest webber that showed up CAN FLY. The caverns are sealed, but that's a fortress ending threat right now.

OH CARP

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on June 30, 2016, 03:37:56 pm

(http://i.imgur.com/RSCp6kd.png)

I had to look up what a nightjar was; there's no entry on the DF wiki for them but ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightjar ...

*welp*

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Dame de la Licorne on June 30, 2016, 04:24:35 pm

(https://assets-production-webvanta-com.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/000000/31/04/original/Puss-In-Boots-Shrek-497126.jpeg)

FYI, the cutest ones are the most dangerous.  :P

-Dame de la Licorne

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Fleeting Frames on July 01, 2016, 12:19:17 am

I suggest seeing if blowgunners get taken out by the FBs, if you plan on using marksdwarves. I wouldn't consider ranged attacks too dangerous on their own, but they can maim, and they are coated in GCS venom.

Otherwise, I'd probably try caving in either ceilings or sealing-in boxes, depending on geography, or if that is not an option minecarts (a more permanent solution, but more tricky to set up).

Meanwhile, being webbed from behind a fortification just gives you a silk farm. Which is good, since your 4 GCS are not likely to survive with that fauna (maybe first one to seal in should be some native cavern critters).

That said, with climbing I'm not sure there's all that big difference in defending from flyers than regular spidery ones in the caverns. They'd still scale the top of walls on their random wanderings, see your dwarves, and come in from the sides even if you have an overhang, so you'd still pretty much need an airtight box.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on July 01, 2016, 06:20:11 am

(http://i.imgur.com/jCSGr7q.png)

Really game? Really? I'm starting exploration of the caverns via carefully placed dropshafts. I'm using hatchcovers so I can rapidly seal the place up again

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on July 01, 2016, 07:01:48 am

This is a masterwork dog leather journal owned by Kogan 'NCommander' Kelnakuth. On its covered is adored images of seven dwarfs. The image related to the founding of Scorchedgravel, the last Dwarven settlement.

Spring 553

We must look towards long-term survival here. That means we need to defend ourselves. The archery tower is a start, but we need to go further. As such, I'm working in the magma forge.

(http://i.imgur.com/tZGUuxs.png)

And have the first squad setup.

(http://i.imgur.com/CiiW1PR.png)

Looking long term, we need to gain access to wood. There's no way around it. We might get a few logs every decade or so on the surface, but it will never be enough to sustain us. We need the ash for soap, as well as beds. To put it more bluntly, we need to dig deeper.

Unfortunately, that's not going to be easy.

(http://i.imgur.com/5j1bdqP.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/pgfu5O5.png)

Evil is lining up in the caverns to wreck us, and webbers can destroy lords. If we are to survive, we need to go better. I've given everyone a silver hammer for the time being; we're out of leather and thus don't have any quivers. At least if we get in caught melee, we won't be completely defenseless, and we can work on building up other useful skills. Like discipline.

(NOTE TO FUTURE OVERSEERS: Order the quivers first, then the rest).

Late Spring 553

(http://i.imgur.com/QxaeUJf.png)

What a noise. We can hear the beasties fighting below. Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll annihilate each other.

(http://i.imgur.com/xASyY11.png)

Nothing we can do yet. However, I'm getting concerned that we haven't found more iron. I'm starting to suspect we need to go up, and order Nix to dig several Z levels above the base. She quickly hits paydirt.

(http://i.imgur.com/aFqMVXp.png)

I have a new hallway and minecart route ordered constructed so we can start moving the ore down quickly.

(http://i.imgur.com/SdTcKPJ.png)

Summer 553

We're getting there.

(http://i.imgur.com/DHxGsoq.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/7RvMvUX.png)

Slowly but surely, we are getting there. As our newest members of the fort get close to their first birthday, I realize we need to be able to cloth them. Most of the pig tails have gone to brewing, but we have a flock of llamas to sheer.

(http://i.imgur.com/AaEVvHp.png)

And more leather on the way.

I'm also happy that our iron supply is growing nicely. Perhaps this time next year we'll start having a nice supply of steel to go with it.

(http://i.imgur.com/smkiPnv.png)

Despite our good fortune as of late, I worry that trouble is lurking. Are we going to be ready for it ...

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Imic on July 01, 2016, 07:31:49 am

We must diiiiiiiiiiig!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Dame de la Licorne on July 01, 2016, 07:39:02 am

Quote from: NCommander on July 01, 2016, 06:20:11 am

(http://i.imgur.com/jCSGr7q.png)

Wow!  This fort really hates you.  On the plus side, these are nice updates.  Keep them coming!

-Dame de la Licorne

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on July 01, 2016, 07:57:00 am

One of the things I'm getting used to is building almost everything out of metal due to a lack of wood and getting bolts cranked out. They're starting to level up in marksdwarf but its slow going, and actually having to run the entire cloth production chain; usually I simply buy out the wagons which tends to keep up with supply nicely. I'm fairly impressed with my metal industry given I've only got seven dwarfs, I usually can't manage this type of production in forts with much more.

EDIT: Turkeys exploded; I'm going to have a legendary butcher/tanner at this rate ... I've stopped farming all together; we're now entirely a meat based fort.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Fleeting Frames on July 01, 2016, 08:20:56 am

...Somehow, I doubt the effectiveness of silver war hammers against flying webbers, and you didn't embark in range of a tower either. What's up with that?

However, I take it that white layer next to hematite is marble?

And yeah, blacksmithing is indeed mostly-neglected labor. Why make things out of gold when you can make them out of native gold, after all. And as for barrels/pots, iirc you struck jet.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on July 01, 2016, 08:30:05 am

Marksdwarfs (or more specifically crossbows), when forced into melee use the hammer skill. They won't train it while holding a crossbow unless they spar (which is rare, or a bug). As such, giving them some time as a hammer dwarf makes them significantly less squishy should I screw up.

I've got a trick that gets them to use ranges much more frequently (its on the wiki), but it won't build discipline which is a problem. Handing them a hammer solves two problems at once. Assuming you've got enough bolts, you can get an elite marksdwarf within a year. Bolts are a headache for this fort, usually I have excess power or can train up a ton of bonecavers. Right now, neither is an option :/.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Fleeting Frames on July 01, 2016, 08:44:40 am

Bow hammers....Is something I have not tested. Looking at the wiki, they're about half as effective?

I wonder if giving them a second weapon wouldn't work better...Though my experiences indicate that a dwarf with pick primary and bow secondary is not likely to use bow when chasing stuff down.

Iirc the "fail to shoot around a bend downwards" trained legendary marksdwarves in about a month with bait while saving all the bolts - effectively demonstrating that live training is much faster ( a year is quite a while, if acceptable in generational fort ). Though usefulness with 0.43 kealess map is limited.

As I take it you dislike FBs, while it may not keep all the bolts, how about solving two birds with one stone with FB training ranges instead?

Looking at the list of FBs, only Ayanu has deadly spittle, which in my experience tends to be frequently harmless, even if Bugsud has fire and Thiliri gas.

You lose their meat, granted, but not like you're running low on food.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on July 01, 2016, 08:57:39 am

I'm aware that live training is actually very fast, but there's a major downside to saving the bolts is they get split. That causes a LOT of lag, and reloads take forever because they go hunt for each bolt in the fortress plus you can't bin ammo, they won't find it.

What I can't find are the forgotten beasts. The flying webber is the only one I can see, and I think its trapped in the bore shaft I drilled way back when I embarked, and I have a few FB corpses. My cavern boreholes found another dead FB as well, and land in Atlantis (yay!) with accessible trees. Cavern 2 (which I'm calling Bone Valley), is pretty lifeless, and very corpse filled, plus a magma pool; I don't have much of a map of it yet. I've got five FBs listed on the deceased screen.

Once I have a complete picture of what the caverns look like, I'll move from there, but I'm looking at a lighting in and out on 1. The downside is the slip of land is right near the edge. I can easily get ambushed but I *really* need the wood.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on July 01, 2016, 09:34:11 am

The Scorchgravel military had their first sorte and the first beast has fallen to our crossbows!

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Fleeting Frames on July 01, 2016, 09:58:25 am

Congratulations! May the single gremlin fall before your bows soon.

Hm, haven't considered the FPS issue in splitting. More lag than they should be causing by their item counts? That's unexpected.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on July 01, 2016, 10:01:57 am

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on July 01, 2016, 09:58:25 am

Congratulations! May the single gremlin fall before your bows soon.

Hm, haven't considered the FPS issue in splitting. More lag than they should be causing by their item counts? That's unexpected.

Stacks exist as a single item with a quantity modifier. Split bolts exist as separate items. Right now, the fort is floating at about 50 FPS due to the birdsplosion. Butchers are working on it but they still have another 70 birds left -_-

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Fleeting Frames on July 01, 2016, 10:20:53 am

NWKohaku's analysis in FPS thread suggests that you'd need tens of thousands of items to dominate FPS calculations, hence my wondering at mere 600 having the suggested strong impact - that's less than what 43 immigrant dwarves wear, about equivalent to 7-8 minimal archery towers with nobody inside.

Pathing, especially to mother/trainer can have heavy cost, though - I assume you did use multiple cages/small closed rooms to keep poultry under control and pathing limited?

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on July 01, 2016, 10:26:20 am

I didn't. I did the usual throw everything into a single room with nest boxes and butcher forgetting how many birds come out of a turkey. I've been caging the hens when I don't need the leather, but I had an unexpected clutch hatch since no one got them off their boxes before round two hatched. The birds are caged right now, so its not a big deal, I just need to finish the butchering.

I'm probably going to have to run a autodump round to get the framerate back up in the 90s or just let someone use the volcano dumper.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on July 01, 2016, 04:48:43 pm

This is a masterwork dog leather journal owned by Kogan 'NCommander' Kelnakuth. On its covered is adored images of seven dwarfs. The image related to the founding of Scorchedgravel, the last Dwarven settlement.

Winter 553

(http://i.imgur.com/tSppHb4.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/AjHm0A9.png)

With our leather problems solved for the moment, archery practice (and demonstrations) have begun. I'm getting to the point that I'm fairly sure I could train someone into an elite marksdwarf without using a single bolt!

OOC: It is theoretically possible if you get a dwarf with Teacher+Marksdwarf/Archer skills if you can get them up to novice. I *might* try this to get a legendary blowgunner if I can liberate a few darts.

Nix has made progress in drilling additional bore shafts to explore the caverns safely. By using a lacework from the ceiling, she can drill a hole straight down after a hatch is installed. By carefully positioning the bore holes where I think the caverns are, we can successfully explore them without risk of anything nasty coming up.

As it turns out, Atlantis has land after all.

(http://i.imgur.com/jIGzaPH.png)

Look at all that wood. We have to get it ...

Another bore hole missed Atlantis and instead hit below. We found this:

(http://i.imgur.com/V2ABtK7.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/qVjjj5G.png)

While I won't know for sure until we've fully explored the lower cavern, the stack of bodies is rather disturbing, including a forgotten beast we didn't even know was down there. I've come to call the second cavern "Bone Valley" due to its lifeless nature and lots of corpses.

Digging deeper, I had Nix drive another bore hole through a known piece of rock in an attempt to find more of the second cavern. Instead she hit the third one!

(http://i.imgur.com/iTzGwZu.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/lwa4JgE.png)

Worse, she had actually actually hit it as such the borehole had a connection to the ground. She immediately had company!

(http://i.imgur.com/fJNCm33.png)

Fortunately, in a bit of good thinking, instead of running down in Rodentland, she darted back up the stairs and locked the hatch behind her.  Of the three caverns, the third has the best opportunities for wood especially the rare and unique nether-cap and blood throne, but also the most amount of danger. While I'm fairly sure we could take a bunch of rodentmen, the third cavern is well known for being the most dangerous.  Worse, I suspect there's a connection between Bone Valley and Rodentland (we need a better name for it) because there is only a single Z level between the two of them. Right now, that means both of them are not safe, at least until we know for sure.

If we're going to get wood for our steel and soap industries, we need to get into Atlantis. We just need to get past the gateskeeper. Who is right now sitting on the shaft Nix dug back when we arrived in the badlands for spores.

Fortunately, I have a plan.

(http://i.imgur.com/mUSYHoI.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/sZacfOz.png)

After several rounds of webs vs. bolts, bolts ultimately won the day. Let it be known that Ryukan officially got the fatal blow and is the first dwarf to shed blood in Doomforest Scorchedgravel!

---

I've started work on my plan to raid Atlantis. There's a large outcropping of rock which we're going to make a storage yard. I've had Nix started digging it out with room for two bridges so we can it access both sides.

(http://i.imgur.com/YhKW2K2.png)

Drawbridges will act as a seal when we're not down there. The rough plan is the Virginal Fences will station right in the middle of the forest, while Gwolfski and Imic cut logs like madman. We'll worry about getting them somewhere more useful later. Derro and Nix (who will have the emergency pickax) will haul. We need to be in, and out fast before anything nasty can show up. I'm expecting the operation to take place next year, pending bridge construction. Our goal is 100 logs which gets us both soap, and a good amount of steel. If we can convert most of iron into steel, I'll be very happy.

---

(http://i.imgur.com/RVrEDc9.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/xet8sfJ.png)

Life continues ...

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Imic on July 02, 2016, 12:29:24 am

I have a son! So does Nix!
 :)
Life goes on.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NRDL on July 02, 2016, 12:35:38 am

Our children are probably gonna end up marrying each other  :P

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Imic on July 02, 2016, 12:51:10 am

Quote from: NRDL on July 02, 2016, 12:35:38 am

Our children are probably gonna end up marrying each other  :P

All to a good cause. May many more children be borne!

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Derro on July 02, 2016, 05:12:51 am

Quote from: NRDL on July 02, 2016, 12:35:38 am

Our children are probably gonna end up marrying each other  :P

The first marriage isn't that bad, but afterwards you start getting dwarves marrying each others' brothers and sisters-in-law.

Also; am I the only one worried about the dozen elk bird corpses in Atlantis?

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Gwolfski on July 02, 2016, 05:18:48 am

Quote from: Derro on July 02, 2016, 05:12:51 am

Quote from: NRDL on July 02, 2016, 12:35:38 am

Our children are probably gonna end up marrying each other  :P

The first marriage isn't that bad, but afterwards you start getting dwarves marrying each others' brothers and sisters-in-law.

Also; am I the only one worried about the dozen elk bird corpses in Atlantis?

At least they're corpses... Oh, I suppose you're wondering what made them corpses.....

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Fleeting Frames on July 02, 2016, 05:36:55 am

Note on Teacher-Student relationships: While I recall only military gives teacher experience, student can be attained through the reading of books.

Forgotten Beasts make best teachers, though! How good archers are they now?

For penetrating cavern, I see so much raising drawbridges with such designs. Perhaps Nix should dig ramps instead of straight tunnels, though, to be closed by the lowering of the raised drawbridge, as this way there's no danger of atomsmashing or something too heavy stopping the operation, and to close it down in emergency takes only 100 steps with a pressure plate, not 200.

For recovering the logs, a trick that I mostly use for getting wagon goods inside and multi-z crisscrossing minecart ramp systems is putting a (coins, typically) stockpile on the items, then digging ramps underneath - ramp will be dug, items will fall down, but the floor itself will remain untouched.

E: Oh yeah, about the tunnels: With the caverns up against each other, they're harder to notice, but I'd guess the downward passageways don't necessarily occur more often for it.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on July 02, 2016, 11:45:42 pm

Pressure plates aren't very useful. Of the things I'm worried coming in, with the exception of a GCS, they're all TRAPAVOID (aka FBs). Drawbridges will fling on raise, and I have them raise inward. That being said, I may switch the design to using hatch covers instead since I can quickly forbid and unforbid them with the "q" menu, and they can't be breached from below.

Due to RTX + Fourth of July, I don't expect to have any updates for a few days. As for magic teleporting items due to ramps, that's a bit too exploitly for me :/. Also, I still need to get in there to cut it down or cave it in which won't help.

Quote from: Derro on July 02, 2016, 05:12:51 am

Also; am I the only one worried about the dozen elk bird corpses in Atlantis?

THat's why I'm really not liking cavern two at all. I'll poke a few more bore holes as situations allow, but I'm not optimistic there's anything worthwhile down there.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Fleeting Frames on July 03, 2016, 01:29:16 am

Well, I would have suggested hatch covers....Expect you have multiple entrances, so forgetting one results in all of them being vulnerable. No reason can't use both, though - at least the cover ought to slow it down a little.

Also, with the exceptions of single gremlin, all cavern critters who are trapavoid are also buildingdestroyers. Can use the old "door holding back minecart from pressure plate" trick, which is why I mentioned "on" signals.

...Albeit you may consider that cheap way to trivialize trapavoid, for 3 of 3 of rejecting ramps.
Mm, I can only suggest ideas, what one dislikes or likes in a game really differs from person to person. ❄£❄

A curious phenomenon.

Still, I suppose Dwarf Fortress is not the first game where I see - I do - "fighting with sheathed claws" happen, like lion cubs. But no other place has it that much - though they do have the 'cheap' considerations much more consistent - and no other place has lion cubs in game.

Demon-fighting lion cubs. ᐜ&ᐜ

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on July 04, 2016, 06:21:10 pm

So after two attempts to raid Atlantis, it hasn't gone well because dwarfs are idiots, and fall into the water and immediately drown. I'm going to have to train swimming :/

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Dame de la Licorne on July 04, 2016, 07:35:34 pm

Quote from: NCommander on July 04, 2016, 06:21:10 pm

I'm going to have to train swimming :/

Well, at least you have time to kill before the kids grow up.  There are worse ways to spend it.

-Dame de la Licorne

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NRDL on July 04, 2016, 07:38:04 pm

Yeah, cross training to build up everyone's stats would actually be a really good idea for the long term survival of our dorfs.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Dame de la Licorne on July 04, 2016, 07:55:50 pm

Quote from: Dame de la Licorne on July 04, 2016, 07:35:34 pm

--before the kids grow up--

Speaking of this (apologies for the bad form in quoting myself), you'll want to get them married off ASAP, to breed the next generation as soon as you can.  I don't know if you've thought about how you're going to do it, but I've toyed with several different room designs, and the most efficient (for me) seems to be something like the following:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

##########
#8+======+
#8#======#
##########

where:
# -> wall
8 -> single-tile bedroom assigned to each compatible dwarf (1 male, 1 female)
+ -> lockable doors
= -> two stockpiles (1 for drink, 1 for food, you can size this room as large/small as you like)

I call this the "airlock system".  Burrow the dwarves into their bedrooms, then lock them in and remove (or unassign them from) the burrow.  Allow the other dwarves to fill the stockpiles (use "take from" for greatest efficiency), then lock the outer door.  Rinse and repeat whenever their food/drink supplies get too low (the autopause on every season change reminds me to check on them), until you get the marriage announcement.

Once you lock them in, you can also designate the beds as a 2-tile meeting zone (which you can temporarily turn into a temple as needed), but I haven't been able to tell if this speeds up the process at all (can't hurt).

Because you'll have spent more than twelve in-game years not having them work, you probably won't miss them while they get married off.

-Dame de la Licorne

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on July 04, 2016, 08:34:14 pm

So after a few abortive attempts, Scorchedgravel now has the Swimmaster 5000, which is a pressure plate monstrosity that also trains climbing a little bit while its at it (though that trains very slowly). Everyone except Nix is now an adequate swimmer. Works completely automatically, and I can use workshop profiles to control who is swimming. I can't get children to use it since they won't pull levers anymore unfortunately. I *might* try a meeting area to see if I can get those kids to go somewhere useful, but I kinda doubt it. Given I can train swimming very quickly now, its kinda moot, and I might as well let them reach legendary as agility means they'll move really fast.

Also another flying webber showed up -_-;

I however learned when dwarfs get stunned, they drop their infant, and babies will not move at all in 6/7 water. I had to drain the swimming area to recover MoonyTheHuman before he drowned. It also generates mist so my dwarfs are even more happy now.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Kahlish on July 05, 2016, 02:46:29 am

Yeaaah, we're gonna need some screenshots of this. It sounds lovely.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on July 05, 2016, 03:15:48 am

I don't really have enough for a full update, but here's the swimmaster. I need to make a few tweaks to how it works, but for the most part, I'm happy with the design.

(http://i.imgur.com/jWY55kB.png)

Basically how it works is there are a bunch of retracting bridges over a pool of 6/7 water positioned in such a way that a dwarf has to path through several tiles to get out via the ramp near the bottom. The lever at the full end is set to Pull/Repeat at high priority and is not connected to anything. The missing walls at the top are an artifact of an earlier design that I didn't finish, and can be ignored. Here's how it works.

1. Dwarf enters the swimmaster crossing the right-most pressure plate when he takes the "Pull the Lever" job
2. He gets about half way to the lever when the bridges retract.
3. If he fails to climb, he plops into the water below, and has to path out
4. The dwarf will cancel the job with "Dangerous Terrain", making it available for someone else to grab.
5. Another dwarf will get pulled into the swimmaster while the first dwarf paths out via the ramp in the corner.
6. Occasionally however, the dwarf will manage to climb and hang in midair. In that case, he'll path to the lever.
7. The second pressure plate by the lever controls the door at the left.
8. The dwarf will repeat for a bit on the lever for a few moments, then try and leave. The door will only be open while he's on the pressure plate kicking him back out to the beginning
9. Traffic designations make sure dwarfs always path through the swimmaster

Here's the fortress swimming stats after about 2 months

(http://i.imgur.com/VmeJMdf.png)

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Fleeting Frames on July 05, 2016, 03:59:13 am

@Dame de la Licorne: Any reason for not keeping the burrows in place until they are married? Seems like you wouldn't need doors in that case.

@NCommander: That's quite an elegant design - I like how it trains the dwarves you choose and works with multiple dwarves at once. When it comes to children, pure math and crude experiments suggests that locking people in room with 4/7 water yields about 115 exp per day - long enough to reach adequate and not die of thrist (+18k), though the parents opinions on swim classes may be mixed.

The simplest thing to train them that springs to mind is setting a burrow overlaying the bridges + spot of solid ground for climbing out and food/drink. In my experience, kids stay in burrows nowadays.

However, do babies drown in 1-3 or 4-6/7 water, or just go thristy/hungry because nobody can reach them?

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Dame de la Licorne on July 05, 2016, 06:19:01 am

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on July 05, 2016, 03:59:13 am

@Dame de la Licorne: Any reason for not keeping the burrows in place until they are married?

Because I came up with the system before burrows existed (and initially used "Station" to get them in there, with a statue to make a meeting area), and I still tend to forget that dwarves have been burrowed, especially if they're restricted to very small ones for a while...

-Dame de la Licorne

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Derro on July 05, 2016, 09:40:27 am

This is a dark green donkey leather diary. On it is an image of Mistem 'Derro' Tishhislogem.

Dear diary.

NCommander has created a wonderful thing! After some worries with the water-filled cavern, he decided to build some kind of giant contraption. It works great: a few months and now I'm a much better swimmer than I've ever been! Of course, there's the part where I almost drown, but hey, I'd rather almost drown than actually drown!

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on July 05, 2016, 12:14:24 pm

This is a masterwork dog leather journal owned by Kogan 'NCommander' Kelnakuth. On its covered is adored images of seven dwarfs. The image related to the founding of Scorchedgravel, the last Dwarven settlement.

Spring 554

As preparations continue for the cavern wood extraction, I sacrifice one of our few logs to make a wooden barrel for an ashery. This will let us make soap for the hospital, a necessity we're greatly lacking in

(http://i.imgur.com/JH7wnNB.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/9VHEUYI.png)

Clothing production is ramping up as well as we have three new dwarfs about to become children. Although dwarven clothing is traditionally made out of pig tail, given our low workforce, and large amount of sheerable animals, I've decided to go with yarn.

---

I had a horrid nightmare last night that we begun the tree felling operations.

(http://i.imgur.com/LaNLxpf.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/1zkAoDd.png)

During the dream, a towercap threaten to fall on Imic and crush him. He managed to dodge out of the way to only land in the underground ocean. All we could do was watch him drown ...

Before we harvest any wood, everyone needs to learn to swim!

---

I give you the Swimmaster 3000

(http://i.imgur.com/Hhxmoy0.png)

A pressure plate, a few levers, and a bridge. A dwarf tries to go for the lever unsuspecting, and then takes a dump into the water reservoir below. Unfortunately, it didn't work. Nix managed to get across the bridge before the pressure plate could fire, rending the entire design moot.

---

Summer 554

Frak us.

(http://i.imgur.com/TKjc3yj.png)

---

(http://i.imgur.com/MPiDDnm.png)

The Swimmaster 4000 is ready for field testing. Imic notices that a lever needs to be pulled and ...

(http://i.imgur.com/oKwdRHo.png)

Blamo! I give you the swimming king!

---

Swimming progress across the fort is coming along slowly.

(http://i.imgur.com/IJkSoVy.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/58ODRkJ.png)

Unfortunately, I underestimated the dwarven desire NOT to enter water, and a few [subscript]like Nix[/subscript] rather brace themselves against the wall, and get to the lever. I can't help but feel like I'm trying to design a better mousetrap

---

(http://i.imgur.com/vxxGP83.png)

After a final round of improvements, I give you the Swimmaster 5000! The walls still need to be smoothed out, but this baby has managed to get anyone who tries to get the cheese lever. On the very off chance they get across, a pressure-plated one-way door lets them out to try again.

---

Gah, the Swimmaster worked a little too well. Nix finally managed to go plunk, into the icy water, and let go her grasp of MoonyTheHuman (I have no idea why she named him that, but I'm not going to judge). Right now, Moony is floating in the water alive, but trapped, and Nix refuses to go down to get her baby.

IT'S NOT LIKE YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO SWIM!

*sigh*. I had a new pump installed to drain pool (Imic gracefully ran the pump for us).

(http://i.imgur.com/BQk4y9v.png)

I had the manager (aka me) forbid Nix from using that lever to prevent a repeat. Overall, knowledge of swimming is growing throughout the fort.

(http://i.imgur.com/nv7sIjG.png)

---

Winter 554

Something is banging around in Rodentland.

(http://i.imgur.com/gRLpmM6.png)

I'd ignore it, expect through its vibrations, we've made a discovery!

(http://i.imgur.com/DlIrvq9.png)

Adamantine, the absolute god of metals. And we're sitting on a boatload of the stuff. We can't get to it now, but I'm happy to know its there. Perhaps it will come in hand when we finally are forced to fight the goblins or humans.

---

I've tried to lure that giant humaniod out of Atlantis by opening up the boreshaft Nix dug.

(http://i.imgur.com/zCTnUnS.png)

No luck. The Elk Birds are hiding in trees out of fear.

(http://i.imgur.com/qVyXehR.png)

I can't say I blame them

---

Spring 555

Ok, enough is enough. I've had the wood collection area expanded, and a line of fortifications installed. Imic knocked out the last of the stone seperating Atlantis from the rest of the fort, and a bait dog was placed in the center of the room. Big fat and smelly beast wanders in, and a well timed pulls trap him in the cross fire.

(http://i.imgur.com/ancFwrX.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/UAG5CQx.png)

We used a LOT of bolts

(http://i.imgur.com/jbW9LoX.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/aj7j4DL.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/p9a7lxr.png)

I must admit for a time I was worried the beast would not fall despite its injuries

(http://i.imgur.com/iV82SpI.png)

until it finally keeled over with a shot to the head.

(http://i.imgur.com/SuwxxBh.png)

I celebrated my first kill with whip wine beer, and a turkey roast.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Imic on July 05, 2016, 12:30:19 pm

You accidentally crossed most of your writing out.
Also !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on July 05, 2016, 12:37:25 pm

Fixed, thanks. Updates on SG are on hold for a few days. My turn in Throwback Fortress came up, and I decided to see how much dwarf cheese I can make in a year.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Fleeting Frames on July 05, 2016, 12:44:56 pm

If the elk bird won't get down, it sure makes securing the cavern a fair bit easier. Just have to avoid FBs....And thank them for the adamantine and teaching! How good are the marksdwarves now?

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on July 05, 2016, 12:52:36 pm

They're getting pretty decent especially since I don't let them train full time. One will occassionally pop off to the range to shoot some bolts, but its been a slow process. I'm level 5, everyone else is level 4. I need to remake their crossbows so they're carrying masterworks which will help with their accuracy.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Tournesol on July 05, 2016, 03:20:20 pm

My, these are interesting times, and our leaders provide me with much variety in my life. Given our small numbers, it was inevitable. Already a grower and armourer, I am now also a fighter; a hammerer (though I much prefer getting hammered to hammering) and a marlsdwarf and my crossbow looks like a small ballista. Or something. I have seen batlle. And I am learning to swim, which is useful, though I hope the Swimmaster 6000 will run on barley beer rather than water.

In OOC news I will be traveling and probably not posting anything for about a couple of weeks.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on July 11, 2016, 09:08:06 pm

This is a masterwork dog leather journal owned by Kogan 'NCommander' Kelnakuth. On its covered is adored images of seven dwarfs. The image related to the founding of Scorchedgravel, the last Dwarven settlement.

Summer 555

After everyone had there time with the Swimmaster, we've begun logging in the caverns.

(http://i.imgur.com/A8hYAmw.png)

Imic was the first to cut down a mushroom top, and reported that while we could use as wood, we would only get 1-2 usable logs out of it. Damnination. While this will cover our wood needs for now, we will likely have to go deeper for more usable amount of wood. Worse, quite a few of the trees can't be harvested from ground level, which means our yields will be even lower!

(http://i.imgur.com/C0dqvmu.png)

None the less, logging is going well. Well, right up until Nix got attacked.

(http://i.imgur.com/dxD03qs.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/PmOQ70y.png)

Of course, being able to swim, after she was pulled under, she made her way to the surface on one of the sunken trees, and mined her way to safety.

(http://i.imgur.com/imo2OHI.png)

Swim training: 1, Giant Toad: 0.

One of those beasts have wandered into our log collection area. I'm having traps built in an attempt to catch it, and other cavern wildlife. Which brings my attention longer term. Right now, we're surviving, but we're not really living. We need something to fight for when company eventually comes. I've starting making sketches of an underground city ...

(http://i.imgur.com/cstFOji.png)

Six main buildings, the long ones five Z high, and the others varying between 8 and 10 Z encased in a cave roughly 15-Z high in total. I need to give everyone something to live for, and for our children to have. We'll dig down one level at a time via channelling leaving giant columns of stone, then hollow those out per mining.

I've told Nix to start digging when she isn't doing anything else.

(http://i.imgur.com/okHhWCl.png)

---

OOC: Megaproject time. I've never really done much with large 3-D builds, so I figured some simple shapes to get started, and we'll keep expanding through the generations

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Fleeting Frames on July 11, 2016, 10:08:51 pm

Well, that toad gave some good armor user training - only bruises and no actual wounds. It's like an undead hair that can die, make sure to capture it :P

Still, swim training was useful....Btw, one of the schemes I recently concocted for swim training when using individual rooms is floodgate over the rooms, triggered by a pressure plate and preventing single tile of water from flowing sideways - when dwarf goes to sleep, they go over a pressure plate that triggers the floodgate to open by the time they're laying down in bed. They won't wake up, even when drowning.

Once they're done sleeping, though, they can leave the room through the door, thus also lowering the water level in room and making it pathable again.

Haven't designed a system to be automatically reused for every nap, though.

As for that megaproject...How many miners do you have? Because eyeballing it it is on the scale of hell-deep shafts every 14 tiles or so. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes one or even two years with your current ones.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on July 11, 2016, 10:15:16 pm

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on July 11, 2016, 10:08:51 pm

Well, that toad gave some good armor user training - only bruises and no actual wounds. It's like an undead hair that can die, make sure to capture it :P

Still, swim training was useful....Btw, one of the schemes I recently concocted for swim training when using individual rooms is floodgate over the rooms, triggered by a pressure plate and preventing single tile of water from flowing sideways - when dwarf goes to sleep, they go over a pressure plate that triggers the floodgate to open by the time they're laying down in bed. They won't wake up, even when drowning.

Once they're done sleeping, though, they can leave the room through the door, thus also lowering the water level in room and making it pathable again.

Haven't designed a system to be automatically reused for every nap, though.

As for that megaproject...How many miners do you have? Because eyeballing it it is on the scale of hell-deep shafts every 14 tiles or so. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes one or even two years with your current ones.

Nix is the only full time miner, and I think she's at least Legendary+6 now given she's already made a decent dent on the top level. I'm expecting it to take at least 10 in-game years to get what I currently marked to be dug out. Swimming training is paying more divinds than I originally antipicated; everyone is moving much faster now than their base rate. I might build a gym and have them pump train as well though that might be overkill ...

EDIT: One big downside I didn't consider. Without anything visiting the map, I'll never level up my civs knowledge of animal training. Which means everything detames really fast. Great for training an animal trainer. Not so great for domestication.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Fleeting Frames on July 11, 2016, 10:43:53 pm

Didn't pump training stop increasing stats?

If you want to train attributes, I recently found bouncing minecart danger rooms to be surprisingly fast (1,1k dodge exp per day with corresponding very quick maxing out of 5 dodge attributes, but only 1 dwarf for 1 bouncing cart, otherwise it goes down to a comparative, if still useful, crawl of 40-75 dodge&armor user per day iirc), but I'm left at askance for other attributes.

That said, I haven't really tested multi-layer ones with lot of dwarves at once....Tbh, I'm kind of at loss of how to prevent dwarves from being trained multiple times without disabling them from going under the rollercoaster one by one (when they enter the fort the first time as migrants, they can go through it with clever design I suppose, but that's not useful for implementing it in mature forts).

That said, for you might as well get high strength as well with swimming training - you can spare...what was it, 1,5 years for maxing out? When running a generational fort, leaving the cart bouncing more of an intellectual curiosity (well, it still trains dodge, I suppose, but eh. The last dwarves in the world shouldn't have to dodge, I think :P)

Meanwhile, I suppose I have few additional design challenges to headbang to.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: De on July 12, 2016, 12:23:53 am

This is really interesting. I've run a few extinct civ revival fortresses but I've never taken such a technical approach to the game. I've never gotten dwarfs to marry, just fall in love, in spite of years locked together in the "Love Nest" with all their tasks disabled. Of course I've mostly played 40.24. Did dwarven relationships get sped up for the later releases? So far I haven't played them much because I find being unable to satisfy so many stupid desires (the crazy food requirements and the whole "need to wander" thing) makes me depressed about the whole business.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on July 12, 2016, 12:34:07 am

Quote from: De on July 12, 2016, 12:23:53 am

This is really interesting. I've run a few extinct civ revival fortresses but I've never taken such a technical approach to the game. I've never gotten dwarfs to marry, just fall in love, in spite of years locked together in the "Love Nest" with all their tasks disabled. Of course I've mostly played 40.24. Did dwarven relationships get sped up for the later releases? So far I haven't played them much because I find being unable to satisfy so many stupid desires (the crazy food requirements and the whole "need to wander" thing) makes me depressed about the whole business.

If anything, they're slower in 43.xx.

To get marriages, you need two sets of dwarfs who are willing to marry; quite a few will only take lovers unfortunately. Without DFHack, that requires a lot of luck; I had to edit some of their flags to actually get marriages out of the starting seven. As for needs, I'm really unhappy with that system as a whole, and wish Toady would fix it. I've mostly taken to just ignoring it entirely, and may go as far as DFHacking them out if it really becomes a problem. I've managed to keep everyone more or less "unfocused" which has been good enough to keep things running. I had another baby pop out, so the deferred dwarfing list is empty, though Imic/Derro only have one child to Nix's three (and Derro isn't even pregnant, WTF?)

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Fleeting Frames on July 12, 2016, 01:17:09 am

Since it is starting 7, you can replace luck with "patience, dwarf therapist and task manager" :P

So far, needs system indeed seems more like a neat bonus for lucky and micromanagey overseers rather than something that boosts real-time productivity.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on July 12, 2016, 11:32:21 am

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on July 11, 2016, 10:43:53 pm

Didn't pump training stop increasing stats?

The system got more diversified; back in 40d, and a lesser extent DF2010, social skills would cause stupid amounts of stat growth. I found in one of my DF2010 forts that when you have 60 social dwarfs waiting for an aquifer break, you get stupidly strong dwarfs. It's been toned down since.

For example, a legendary book keeper would superdwarvenly strong and basically unbreakable (while at the same time keeping your books up to date for all time including taking account his own death). This was the same system that gave us the hardcore carp.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: Fleeting Frames on July 12, 2016, 12:12:23 pm

*shrugs* All I know is that I set one dwarf to pump since seeing on wiki, came back in a bit and checked him in DT, then decided "it's crap" and took him off it. Then again, bit later I looked at swim training and was forced to grudgingly admit training attributes doesn't make much sense for single-year forts.

And yea (headshoots was fun read), unfortunately leaving me slightly ajar on how to effectively train wild whales for meat production.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on July 12, 2016, 12:43:54 pm

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on July 12, 2016, 12:12:23 pm

And yea (headshoots was fun read), unfortunately leaving me slightly ajar on how to effectively train wild whales for meat production.

Easiest way is to re-architect an ocean or tinker a bit with the raws to reduce the amount of land critters. If you've never sent an ocean down an aquifer, I highly recommend doing so. The big headache is only so much wildlife can enter the map at a given time, and its competing with the magma sea and the caverns. Best approach is to seal up the site with bridges or statues (or obsidian) so nothing can get in or out. Aquatic life is very low on the priorities that unless you're trying for it, you're more likely to see in-game moss.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Swimming Towards Future?
Post by: Imic on July 12, 2016, 12:51:02 pm

We need a name change. Scorchedgravel: swimming towards... Well, any future will do, thanks.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Breeding The Next Generation
Post by: De on July 12, 2016, 09:42:00 pm

Quote from: NCommander on July 12, 2016, 12:34:07 am

If anything, they're slower in 43.xx.

To get marriages, you need two sets of dwarfs who are willing to marry; quite a few will only take lovers unfortunately. Without DFHack, that requires a lot of luck; I had to edit some of their flags to actually get marriages out of the starting seven. As for needs, I'm really unhappy with that system as a whole, and wish Toady would fix it. I've mostly taken to just ignoring it entirely, and may go as far as DFHacking them out if it really becomes a problem. I've managed to keep everyone more or less "unfocused" which has been good enough to keep things running. I had another baby pop out, so the deferred dwarfing list is empty, though Imic/Derro only have one child to Nix's three (and Derro isn't even pregnant, WTF?)

Isn't it funny that he took out the mechanic of dwarfs getting upset by the inevitable corpse piles (the corpse piles were indeed inevitable but their causing depression at least made sense) and made it so dwarfs can traipse daily over the decaying form of their fallen kindred but want to slit their wrists because they can't get tomatoes in the north.

There's an extra requirement that has to make dwarfs want to marry beyond just the becoming lovers? Uh oh..... I think my fort might be in trouble.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Swimming Towards The Next Generation
Post by: Fleeting Frames on July 12, 2016, 10:41:06 pm

Dwarven mind is fairly different from our human one. When it comes to how they experience things, things do leave their mark, but it isn't a continuous one - each and every experience is new strike on previous shape. We would be utterly horrified by our friends' death and be blissful near a lovely waterfall - but it's more than valuing our friend higher than the waterfall, we would keep thinking about the friend but not of waterfall after the event.
Similarly, a dwarf can become absolute master of their trade by churning out blocks or dodging same spear, while we need more varied experience.

Reclaiming a worldgen fortress is quite an architecture contrast, too - I think the only things I've replicated is giant pile of everything on top of anything as well as the tight entranceway library designs :P

And yeah, they must be willing to commit. You can be sure of it if they dream of marriage, I think? But I think DT or dfhack's gaydar is needed to check.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Swimming Towards The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on July 13, 2016, 04:16:51 am

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on July 12, 2016, 10:41:06 pm

And yeah, they must be willing to commit. You can be sure of it if they dream of marriage, I think? But I think DT or dfhack's gaydar is needed to check.

Actually, there's a disconnect with that. I'm not sure of the "getting married" dream, but they'll marry same sex even if their goal is to raise a family ...

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Swimming Towards The Next Generation
Post by: Fleeting Frames on July 13, 2016, 04:22:18 am

Right, I forgot >_>

In this respect, the goblins are more progressive. If they can't have a child, they'll adopt one.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Swimming Towards The Next Generation
Post by: Derro on July 13, 2016, 08:55:01 am

Quote from: NCommander on July 13, 2016, 04:16:51 am

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on July 12, 2016, 10:41:06 pm

And yeah, they must be willing to commit. You can be sure of it if they dream of marriage, I think? But I think DT or dfhack's gaydar is needed to check.

Actually, there's a disconnect with that. I'm not sure of the "getting married" dream, but they'll marry same sex even if their goal is to raise a family ...

The only right thing to do in that case is to give them a book containing the secrets of life and death, dump a dead dwarven child near them, and watch the gay necromancer family grow!

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Swimming Towards The Next Generation
Post by: De on July 20, 2016, 02:26:41 am

Quote from: NCommander on July 13, 2016, 04:16:51 am

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on July 12, 2016, 10:41:06 pm

And yeah, they must be willing to commit. You can be sure of it if they dream of marriage, I think? But I think DT or dfhack's gaydar is needed to check.

Actually, there's a disconnect with that. I'm not sure of the "getting married" dream, but they'll marry same sex even if their goal is to raise a family ...

So dwarfs, like one of the only two males I have in the starting 7 of my fort for the latest version, who dream of raising a family but are "not the type to fall in love" are just screwed forever?

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Swimming Towards The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on July 21, 2016, 07:37:43 pm

Quote from: De on July 20, 2016, 02:26:41 am

Quote from: NCommander on July 13, 2016, 04:16:51 am

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on July 12, 2016, 10:41:06 pm

And yeah, they must be willing to commit. You can be sure of it if they dream of marriage, I think? But I think DT or dfhack's gaydar is needed to check.

Actually, there's a disconnect with that. I'm not sure of the "getting married" dream, but they'll marry same sex even if their goal is to raise a family ...

So dwarfs, like one of the only two males I have in the starting 7 of my fort for the latest version, who dream of raising a family but are "not the type to fall in love" are just screwed forever?

You can't actually tell in game if two dwarfs will become lovers or even marry. You need to use DFHack to examine (and possibly modify) their soul.

I apologize for the lack of updates. Pokemon GO and a new contract happened.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Swimming Towards The Next Generation
Post by: Imic on July 22, 2016, 01:00:48 am

Am I one of the only people on the internet who dosn't do pokemon go?
... The reason,  of course, is bacause I don't want to lug my ipad around outside while walking the dog, but still, seriously?

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Swimming Towards The Next Generation
Post by: Mr Frog on July 22, 2016, 01:50:38 am

Quote from: Imic on July 22, 2016, 01:00:48 am

Am I one of the only people on the internet who dosn't do pokemon go?
... The reason,  of course, is bacause I don't want to lug my ipad around outside while walking the dog, but still, seriously?

Well, I don't own a phone or tablet or anything of that description, so no, you are not alone

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Swimming Towards The Next Generation
Post by: De on July 23, 2016, 10:55:18 pm

Quote from: Mr Frog on July 22, 2016, 01:50:38 am

Quote from: Imic on July 22, 2016, 01:00:48 am

Am I one of the only people on the internet who dosn't do pokemon go?
... The reason,  of course, is bacause I don't want to lug my ipad around outside while walking the dog, but still, seriously?

Well, I don't own a phone or tablet or anything of that description, so no, you are not alone

Me neither! I'd suggest banding together but that would probably take more effort and commitment than any of us are really willing to put in.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Swimming Towards The Next Generation
Post by: Imic on July 24, 2016, 12:40:00 am

Quote from: De on July 23, 2016, 10:55:18 pm

Quote from: Mr Frog on July 22, 2016, 01:50:38 am

Quote from: Imic on July 22, 2016, 01:00:48 am

Am I one of the only people on the internet who dosn't do pokemon go?
... The reason,  of course, is bacause I don't want to lug my ipad around outside while walking the dog, but still, seriously?

Well, I don't own a phone or tablet or anything of that description, so no, you are not alone

Me neither! I'd suggest banding together but that would probably take more effort and commitment than any of us are really willing to put in.

Well... I walk a lot, and I build a lot in minecraft, if that helps.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Swimming Towards The Next Generation
Post by: Gwolfski on July 24, 2016, 04:23:05 am

Quote from: Imic on July 24, 2016, 12:40:00 am

Quote from: De on July 23, 2016, 10:55:18 pm

Quote from: Mr Frog on July 22, 2016, 01:50:38 am

Quote from: Imic on July 22, 2016, 01:00:48 am

Am I one of the only people on the internet who dosn't do pokemon go?
... The reason,  of course, is bacause I don't want to lug my ipad around outside while walking the dog, but still, seriously?

Well, I don't own a phone or tablet or anything of that description, so no, you are not alone

Me neither! I'd suggest banding together but that would probably take more effort and commitment than any of us are really willing to put in.

Well... I walk a lot, and I build a lot in minecraft, if that helps.

I honestly think Pokemon GO is a bit stupid. for me. i dont like pokemon, but still, listen to the news- people walking into cars, and no respect forstuff! pokemons in auschwit, churches... etc. not nice [/rant]

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Swimming Towards The Next Generation
Post by: Migrant on July 24, 2016, 02:54:20 pm

Quote

I honestly think Pokemon GO is a bit stupid. for me. i dont like pokemon, but still, listen to the news- people walking into cars, and no respect forstuff! pokemons in auschwit, churches... etc. not nice [/rant]

This seems more like a problem with the users than a problem with the game. I (apperently like several other DF enthusiats) don't play the game and as such I think it is <mild expletive> to fill an entire page discussing a game none of us play in a forum devoted to a game we all play.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Swimming Towards The Next Generation
Post by: Imic on August 25, 2016, 02:28:38 am

Bump

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Swimming Towards The Next Generation
Post by: NCommander on August 26, 2016, 07:45:01 am

I had a fatal laptop crash that mostly put this on hold. The save is intact but I haven't had a chance to retrieve it from my old machine jsut yet.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Swimming Towards The Next Generation
Post by: Imic on August 27, 2016, 05:27:49 am

That explains a lot.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Swimming Towards The Next Generation
Post by: Gwolfski on August 27, 2016, 06:26:11 am

I feel your pain. I had that happen to me twice.

Title: Re: Scorchedgravel - Swimming Towards The Next Generation
Post by: Migrant on September 20, 2016, 02:06:07 pm

Any progress NC?