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Dwarf Fortress => DF Suggestions => Topic started by: Fleeting Frames on November 22, 2016, 10:12:29 am

Title: Knowledge: Learning how to make an item from making an exotic artifact
Post by: Fleeting Frames on November 22, 2016, 10:12:29 am
Brought about by having an armorer create a high boot, yet still only having low boots available :P

(I mean, how do they learn it in world gen anyway?)

(Did a quick search for high boot, saw no topics.)
Title: Re: Knowledge: Learning how to make an item from making an exotic artifact
Post by: rhavviepoodle on November 24, 2016, 09:48:27 am
Generally, I figure that dwarves are pretty set in their ways. Dwarves make dwarven items because they're dwarven, and the items dwarves make are dwarven because dwarves make them. That said, something like a high boot artifact is more or less (to both us and to dwarves) more quaint than useful. The rest of your dwarves aren't liable to look at it and say, "Wow, I like that so much more than our low boots that I want to emulate that!" I could maybe understand if a noble with an exotic preference forced smiths to learn how to make it, since nobles are already super pushy anyhow.
Title: Re: Knowledge: Learning how to make an item from making an exotic artifact
Post by: Fleeting Frames on November 24, 2016, 04:21:29 pm
Generally, I'd figure it'd start out as knowing how to smith picks and that's it in year 1, learning more things as time goes on.

'course, dwarves pop from void fully cultured and all.

But that's a good counterpoint. If dwarves don't dress like dwarves, are they dwarves at all?
Title: Re: Knowledge: Learning how to make an item from making an exotic artifact
Post by: Bumber on November 24, 2016, 07:40:38 pm
That said, something like a high boot artifact is more or less (to both us and to dwarves) more quaint than useful. The rest of your dwarves aren't liable to look at it and say, "Wow, I like that so much more than our low boots that I want to emulate that!"
High boots give shin protection. Low boots don't.
Title: Re: Knowledge: Learning how to make an item from making an exotic artifact
Post by: rhavviepoodle on November 27, 2016, 02:50:18 pm
If you want your shins covered, wear greaves.

Generally, I figure that dwarves are pretty set in their ways. Dwarves make dwarven items because they're dwarven, and the items dwarves make are dwarven because dwarves make them.

Bumber, you might have missed that part there. What I was getting at is that regardless of how effective high boots are compared to vanilla low boots (yay extra shin protection), dwarves are dumb enough and stubborn enough that they aren't liable to suddenly change their mind just because one of their own decided to make an artifact.

As for clothing, it's mostly just there as a flavor thing and wouldn't matter much whether or not your dwarves could make it. The exotic versions (frilly boots, jagged robes, rectangular shields, or whatever) again are just a flavor thing and would be redundant. Given what I said earlier, it definitely could be argued that dwarves could (and maybe even should) make different items without those items being "undwarven." In fact, a high boot artifact is just as dwarven as any other artifact, but like I mentioned, it's more quaint than it is -useful-.

With weapons, it's a bit trickier to handle. Many of the exotic weapons are either too big for dwarves to reliably wield or (like with clothing) are exotic because they have a silly adjective (long crossbows, curved war hammers, etc) and don't seem necessary. I wouldn't be opposed to dwarves learning how to make different stuff, especially once they can reliably wield bigger weapons, but I do enjoy the idea that they can be dumb and stubborn, even when it's to their own detriment. It also helps make some of your quaint artifacts feel a bit more special when they -do- show up (especially if they're both quaint -and- practical).
Title: Re: Knowledge: Learning how to make an item from making an exotic artifact
Post by: Detoxicated on November 27, 2016, 06:28:08 pm
The way how we dress ourselves is culture.
A way to have cultural shift from caps to hoods and such could be interesting
Title: Re: Knowledge: Learning how to make an item from making an exotic artifact
Post by: rhavviepoodle on November 27, 2016, 06:48:31 pm
If I were to let go of dwarven stupidity and stubbornness, I would potentially agree. It makes perfect sense that dwarves living primarily in a desert biome would dress differently than those who lived in tundra. On the other hand, I'm guessing that the climates underneath a tundra and desert wouldn't actually be that radically different.
Title: Re: Knowledge: Learning how to make an item from making an exotic artifact
Post by: Detoxicated on November 27, 2016, 08:28:31 pm
Perhaps books about say headscarves would argue for or against them and influence their readers. The same way they could inspire to believe in a good or a culture trait
Title: Re: Knowledge: Learning how to make an item from making an exotic artifact
Post by: rhavviepoodle on November 28, 2016, 11:32:40 am
I like that idea a lot. Perhaps, then, it would behoove a player to have scholars of other races visit their fort, in order to write books about exotic clothing and such?
Title: Re: Knowledge: Learning how to make an item from making an exotic artifact
Post by: Detoxicated on November 28, 2016, 12:22:23 pm
Books are key for many things imho. Check out rise and Fall of civ discussion
Title: Re: Knowledge: Learning how to make an item from making an exotic artifact
Post by: Dozebôm Lolumzalìs on November 28, 2016, 02:17:09 pm
Books are key for many things imho. Check out rise and Fall of civ discussion
Not necessarily - apprenticeship or "learning by doing" is a more archaic way of learning how to make something.

And books are not the driving force of fashion trends, lol.