Post by: webadict on August 04, 2013, 10:40:54 pm
Please maintain a chill atmosphere.
Basic rules:
- No PMing to anyone but me, the mod. I won't make this an action either because PMing is stupid.
- No Quoting of the Mod in relation to PMs. You are free to quote anything in the thread. You may also paraphrase.
- Semi-hammers in effect. Days last on a soft 72 hours, unless majority is voting for any player or No Lynch. If a player is hammered, there is to be no more talking. If you accidentally post something after the hammer, you can and should edit out the post.
- Nights last 24 hours or whenever all the actions are sent in. If you do not wish to action, please send a PM stating so.
- Weekends count for 0 hours, as I enjoy my free time on them.
- Extensions require a majority vote. This will be limited to 2 extensions per Day, because, seriously, make up your minds already. Extensions are an additional 48 hours.
- There may be Post Restrictions. These should not interfere with gameplay.
- I cannot answer questions about player's roles unless that player's role is available to be seen. I cannot answer questions about your role in thread. I can, however, answer generic questions. I will simply ask you to rephrase the question, if I deem the question is bad.
- Please vote in a manner that is viewable with my poor eyesight. If I can't see your vote, I might skip it. I can't trust LurkerTracker to do my vote counts for me, but I'll at least check it for semi-accuracy. Bold and Red makes it really easy to see.
- If I leave the thread open at Night, do not post unless you have an ability allowing you to.
You are not in the game until I receive a role. Also, don't under- or overestimate your abilities. And have fun! Because, honestly, that's the whole point.
Also, for those without knowledge of how I style roles, here's a little cheat sheet! If you ask me one of these questions, I will not answer it.
Spoiler: Webadict on Roles (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Webadict on Action Order (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Webadict on Alignments (click to show/hide)
Players:
birdy51
Cheeetar
Deathsword
griffinpup <--- ???????
Hapah
Imp
Nerjin
notquitethere
Shakerag
The_Iqovian
TheWetSheep
Tiruin
Toaster
TolyK
This could be you!
Replacement List:
This can always be you!
Post by: Okami No Rei on August 05, 2013, 12:43:00 am
Post by: Griffionday on August 05, 2013, 01:38:10 am
Post by: TolyK on August 05, 2013, 02:50:10 am
Post by: Toaster on August 05, 2013, 08:14:19 am
Post by: Shakerag on August 05, 2013, 08:51:16 am
Post by: Toaster on August 05, 2013, 08:52:15 am
Hmm.
Oh, you.
Post by: Shakerag on August 05, 2013, 01:41:03 pm
Tradition makes me want to join, but [whine]my freee tiiiiimee[/whine].Hmm.
Oh, you.
Maybe I can just submit The BYOR 12 Role For Busy People With Careers.
Post by: webadict on August 05, 2013, 10:17:05 pm
Post by: Tiruin on August 05, 2013, 10:49:55 pm
And then Shakerag sent in himself. :pTradition makes me want to join, but [whine]my freee tiiiiimee[/whine].Hmm.
Oh, you.
Maybe I can just submit The BYOR 12 Role For Busy People With Careers.
Post by: RangerCado on August 05, 2013, 11:00:00 pm
Post by: hops on August 06, 2013, 08:54:59 am
Post by: TolyK on August 07, 2013, 09:06:54 am
Post by: TheWetSheep on August 07, 2013, 09:52:39 am
I'll get on the replacement list for this... and no i won't claim!We could use you over in the BM if you have the time, Ranger.
Post by: webadict on August 07, 2013, 02:26:04 pm
You should ask SailFlame. He wanted to join, but he appears to be new to the forums.I'll get on the replacement list for this... and no i won't claim!We could use you over in the BM if you have the time, Ranger.
Post by: TolyK on August 07, 2013, 02:28:56 pm
Post by: webadict on August 07, 2013, 04:56:52 pm
Wuba, if a long time passes and not enough people join, will you go with a lower amount of people, or will you just drop this one for now?Lower amount, probably.
But this will have to involve egregious rule changes.
I'll probably ask for a second role.
Post by: Toaster on August 07, 2013, 09:19:18 pm
Post by: Okami No Rei on August 07, 2013, 09:35:20 pm
Post by: webadict on August 08, 2013, 06:39:42 am
I'd sign up in a heartbeat if this game was definitely going to start after either Witches Coven or Lonely Prince end.That's way too far. I could perhaps delay it, but that's like... 1-2 months from now.
Post by: TolyK on August 11, 2013, 01:10:28 am
Post by: webadict on August 11, 2013, 05:42:26 am
Well, crap. I'll likely lose my internet for the next two weeks, so if this starts earlier I'll have to pass. :(It won't. We're still missing 5 other players.
Post by: Okami No Rei on August 12, 2013, 05:43:03 am
Post by: birdy51 on August 12, 2013, 08:41:08 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on August 12, 2013, 10:22:26 pm
Post by: Vector on August 12, 2013, 10:30:05 pm
I was never very good at this but count me in.
YESSSSSSSSS
Buddy, I'm so glad you came back to play with us. Right on!
Post by: webadict on August 12, 2013, 10:44:41 pm
Fight the POWER!I was never very good at this but count me in.
YESSSSSSSSS
Buddy, I'm so glad you came back to play with us. Right on!
Post by: Tiruin on August 12, 2013, 10:55:55 pm
I was never very good at this but count me in.Aww yes~
Welcome back, you! :D
Post by: ToonyMan on August 13, 2013, 02:36:08 pm
I was never very good at this but count me in.CHEEETAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Post by: webadict on August 13, 2013, 02:49:08 pm
rI was never very good at this but count me in.CHEEETAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Post by: birdy51 on August 13, 2013, 03:33:09 pm
I'm not Birdy31, I'm Birdy51.
Noes. ;.;
Post by: Vector on August 14, 2013, 11:51:54 pm
Web, I love your game design and you're an awesome pal, but playing Mafia just isn't doing it for me anymore. See you on the other side.
Post by: webadict on August 15, 2013, 05:48:30 am
Out.A'ight. Peace, girl.
Web, I love your game design and you're an awesome pal, but playing Mafia just isn't doing it for me anymore. See you on the other side.
Post by: webadict on August 25, 2013, 01:07:44 pm
Maybe we can get some more people before September!
Post by: griffinpup on August 26, 2013, 05:54:30 pm
WE NEED MORE PEOPLES IN THIS GAME SO I CAN PLAY AND WIN!!!
SO IF YOU'RE READING THIS HORRID POST OF CAPS, SIGN UP FOR THIS FREAKIN GAME!!!
Post by: Vector on August 26, 2013, 07:00:46 pm
Post redacted to better translate the actual contents of what was written here.
Post by: webadict on August 26, 2013, 07:15:18 pm
Vector, as a mod, your game is doing fine. Promise. Don't worry about it, alright? If you fill gaps, you fill gaps. If you don't, you don't. Worrying is only going to cause you unnecessary stress. So... maintain chillosity.BUMP FOR PEOPLE!!!
WE NEED MORE PEOPLES IN THIS GAME SO I CAN PLAY AND WIN!!!
SO IF YOU'RE READING THIS HORRID POST OF CAPS, SIGN UP FOR THIS FREAKIN GAME!!!
. . . Webadict bumped yesterday, babe. And no, I'm too busy trying to keep my own game afloat to sign up for this freakin game.
Idea: Let's play some pictionary, y'all.
Post by: Vector on August 26, 2013, 07:19:32 pm
Post by: Toaster on August 26, 2013, 07:39:18 pm
Post by: webadict on August 26, 2013, 07:53:58 pm
Post by: webadict on August 26, 2013, 08:02:32 pm
Post by: TolyK on August 28, 2013, 05:18:33 am
And I haven't missed much.
I managed to even host my own BYOR IRL >.>
Post by: webadict on August 28, 2013, 07:58:46 am
I'm baaaack!Nice. How'd that go?
And I haven't missed much.
I managed to even host my own BYOR IRL >.>
Post by: TolyK on August 28, 2013, 08:16:46 am
Everyone had several lives... if you want details, just PM me, I wanna know your opinion. :P
Post by: Nerjin on August 30, 2013, 02:18:31 pm
Anyway I'm In if you'll have me.
Post by: notquitethere on September 01, 2013, 06:54:53 pm
Post by: webadict on September 01, 2013, 10:21:26 pm
Post by: TolyK on September 01, 2013, 11:22:39 pm
:P
Post by: webadict on September 01, 2013, 11:23:30 pm
I'm wondering why I'm still at the bottom of the list... >.>Alphabetical order.
:P
Post by: ToonyMan on September 02, 2013, 01:57:43 pm
Post by: webadict on September 02, 2013, 05:12:11 pm
Webadict just wants to be at the bottom of everything.This is completely unrelated to my name change to Zzzzzzzzzz
Post by: Toaster on September 03, 2013, 12:20:30 pm
Post by: TolyK on September 03, 2013, 12:39:01 pm
:P
Post by: The_Iqovian on September 04, 2013, 06:59:11 am
Post by: Tiruin on September 04, 2013, 07:05:52 am
Do you have any past experience with Mafia? As a BYOR is very much different from a normal game.
Post by: The_Iqovian on September 04, 2013, 07:13:08 am
Post by: Toaster on September 04, 2013, 07:49:52 am
Post by: webadict on September 04, 2013, 08:08:57 am
Post by: Nerjin on September 04, 2013, 09:30:33 am
Post by: Cheeetar on September 05, 2013, 12:20:08 am
Post by: TolyK on September 14, 2013, 03:56:25 am
Post by: TheWetSheep on September 20, 2013, 07:42:32 pm
Post by: webadict on September 20, 2013, 10:47:28 pm
Post by: TolyK on September 21, 2013, 11:39:45 am
ETA? SoonTM?
Post by: webadict on September 21, 2013, 11:45:45 am
Dooo eeeet.Well, first I'd want Princess Bride to end. Then I'd want everyone to confirm they are in. Or confirm you're in now, and let it end later. Either works.
ETA? SoonTM?
Post by: notquitethere on September 21, 2013, 12:15:04 pm
Post by: Tiruin on September 21, 2013, 12:27:45 pm
Post by: Toaster on September 21, 2013, 01:03:22 pm
Post by: TolyK on September 21, 2013, 01:22:29 pm
Post by: TheWetSheep on September 21, 2013, 04:43:16 pm
Post by: Teneb on September 21, 2013, 05:59:33 pm
Post by: Nerjin on September 21, 2013, 06:38:46 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on September 21, 2013, 08:10:12 pm
Post by: Hapah on September 21, 2013, 08:21:51 pm
Post by: The_Iqovian on September 21, 2013, 08:39:26 pm
Post by: birdy51 on September 21, 2013, 09:40:30 pm
Post by: Shakerag on September 21, 2013, 09:54:03 pm
Post by: webadict on September 22, 2013, 12:06:02 pm
I suppose that's plenty enough to start working on roles though.
Post by: griffinpup on September 23, 2013, 05:38:59 pm
Tentative confirmation?
As long as you guys aren't expecting exorbitant amounts of content, I should be good. I'll keep you updated though.
Post by: TheWetSheep on September 27, 2013, 06:48:06 pm
Post by: webadict on September 27, 2013, 07:09:52 pm
I'm going away for the weekend and won't be able to post if the game starts soon.The game won't start until Princess Diaries is over.
Post by: Imp on September 29, 2013, 08:34:16 pm
Post by: webadict on September 29, 2013, 08:46:43 pm
Oi! Despite reeking of newbieness, I'm teething and I find myself fascinated by Mafia. I've not finished my first game yet, but I'd sure enjoy being permitted to join this august company. May I may I can I please?Sure, why not?
Post by: Tiruin on September 30, 2013, 12:13:38 am
Post by: webadict on October 15, 2013, 07:46:07 am
Except we won't because I'm really tired and have been slacking on finishing the roles.
Post by: notquitethere on October 17, 2013, 04:50:20 am
Post by: birdy51 on October 17, 2013, 06:19:54 am
Post by: notquitethere on October 17, 2013, 08:41:04 am
Post by: webadict on October 17, 2013, 10:25:01 am
Post by: birdy51 on October 17, 2013, 12:58:23 pm
I'm steadily working on roles some more. For some reason, they just won't write themselves.
Dastardly things! Have you tried intimidating them?
Post by: Imp on October 17, 2013, 02:07:56 pm
While we're waiting, would you update the OP again with the current players list?
And is Griffinpup still tentatively confirmed? He's not logged into the forum in over two weeks again.
Post by: webadict on October 17, 2013, 03:20:53 pm
I tried giving them an earlier bed time and taking away their internet access, but they just sit there doing nothing all day.I'm steadily working on roles some more. For some reason, they just won't write themselves.
Dastardly things! Have you tried intimidating them?
I bet this'll be so very much worth the wait.I don't know...
While we're waiting, would you update the OP again with the current players list?
And is Griffinpup still tentatively confirmed? He's not logged into the forum in over two weeks again.
Overall, I'm not against starting without him. He knows I don't take kindly to people lurking.
Post by: notquitethere on October 17, 2013, 03:33:52 pm
I say if he hasn't turned up by the start of the day, you modkill him Night 0. That'll set a strong example for everyone else.I bet this'll be so very much worth the wait.I don't know...
While we're waiting, would you update the OP again with the current players list?
And is Griffinpup still tentatively confirmed? He's not logged into the forum in over two weeks again.
Overall, I'm not against starting without him. He knows I don't take kindly to people lurking.
Post by: webadict on October 17, 2013, 03:48:45 pm
Ah, but the we'll be down 1 [REDACTED].I say if he hasn't turned up by the start of the day, you modkill him Night 0. That'll set a strong example for everyone else.I bet this'll be so very much worth the wait.I don't know...
While we're waiting, would you update the OP again with the current players list?
And is Griffinpup still tentatively confirmed? He's not logged into the forum in over two weeks again.
Overall, I'm not against starting without him. He knows I don't take kindly to people lurking.
Post by: webadict on October 20, 2013, 07:41:13 pm
I'll get to this in between programming sessions. I have a jog planned for a little bit from now. I might do more role creation at the same time.
Post by: TolyK on October 23, 2013, 01:55:03 pm
...
Take all the time you need. :P
Post by: webadict on October 23, 2013, 04:11:11 pm
Wait, you're a programmer?I'm making a website for the next Bay12 Christmas Giveaway. Right now, it looks like trash, and I feel super tired from working overnight... So yeah. This is low on my priority list.
...
Take all the time you need. :P
Post by: webadict on October 23, 2013, 11:45:59 pm
Can you dig it?
Post by: Imp on October 24, 2013, 12:04:15 am
Post by: Tiruin on October 24, 2013, 12:20:33 am
> Stand at the ready.
Post by: Cheeetar on October 24, 2013, 01:58:04 am
Post by: Imp on October 24, 2013, 02:34:07 am
Post by: Shakerag on October 24, 2013, 08:54:56 am
*borrows Shakerag's shovel*Hey, I need that for Hapah.
> Stand at the ready.
Post by: TolyK on October 24, 2013, 09:28:30 am
>.>
Post by: Shakerag on October 29, 2013, 09:09:40 am
He must have had to walk the dog after making dinner.
Post by: TolyK on October 29, 2013, 10:39:12 am
Post by: webadict on October 29, 2013, 11:34:37 am
Anyhow, I'll finish up everything today and send them out! Woo! I've got a bit more time today, so this should work. I promise to get them working and sent out at 8 PM CST.
Post by: webadict on October 29, 2013, 08:33:21 pm
12:04 a.m. The East Side Docks
"I ain't never seen anythin' like it before, Sam. I tell ya. This case is a pretty tough nut to crack. There's bodies all ovah..." the young detective paused for a bit, taking a drag from his cigarette. "D'ya think it's the gangs?"
Sam Webster had barely heard anything Johnny had said. He was too busy looking at how busy his week was going to be. "Ah jeez... Ya know the mob ain't gonna leave bodies out in the open like this. Not their style."
"Maybe they had a big showdown with anotha gang. Big firefight, ya know? See, dis guy here, he probably the lead-"
"You get the lab workin' on any o' this?"
"Sure thing, boss. Got some prints goin' righ' now. But, we found some ID fer this guy. 'Parently his name's Griffin Pup. Dumb name, right? Well, wanna take a guess what else he's known by?" Johnny pauses, expecting a guess. Sam stays quiet. "The Widow Mine. Ya, that Widow Mine. Looks like someone really had a beef with 'im. Well," Johnny laughs a bit, "who didn't this side of the rivah, am I righ'? The bastard killed 6 people. Wouldn' su'prise me if it wasn' revenge."
Sam takes out a cigarette and lights it. "Good work, Johnny."
Sam knew then that he was short-sighted. This was going to take months.
griffinpup has been modkilled!
griffinpup was a Widow Mine (sk).
Vote Count
------------------------
birdy51 -
Cheeetar -
Deathsword -
Hapah -
Imp -
Nerjin -
notquitethere -
Shakerag -
The_Iqovian -
TheWetSheep -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK -
No Lynch -
Not Voting - birdy51, Cheeetar, Deathsword, Hapah, Imp, Nerjin, notquitethere, Shakerag, The_Iqovian, TheWetSheep, Tiruin, Toaster, TolyK,
7 To Hammer. Day ends Monday 8 PM Central.
The Day has started.
Quote
griffinpup - Widow Mine
(Auto) Widowmaker, Undertaker: Kill actions that target you kill the user instead. You are immune to kills.
(Auto) Loose Cannon: Your tendency to explode and kill things means you have no vote. Just remember kids: Crime doesn’t pay.
(1-Shot, Night) Proximity Mines [target]: Cover the target in mines. If a player actions the target on a following Phase, all players that action the target during that Phase are killed (This is limited to 1 during the Day).
Post by: Nerjin on October 29, 2013, 09:22:36 pm
@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?
Post by: birdy51 on October 29, 2013, 09:57:44 pm
This should be fun!
Cheeetar - Are you satisfied with your role?
Deathsword - You are an unclaimed Doctor on a Night of MYLO. There are two players left in the game, both of whom claimed Cop. One player has been reasonably seedy throughout the game, while the other has been very earnestly scumhunting throughout the match. One of them is scum. Who are you more likely to be suspicious of?
Hapah - You were rather passive in your last game as scum, and managed to survive a good time for it. For do plan addressing this game scumbucket?
Imp - You are scum. Right off the bat, you are confronted with the devil himself in Townie Form during RVS and he tunnels aggressively. How do you get him off your back?
Nerjin - Glad to see you playing! What aspects draw you into Mafia?
Shakerag - What do you think creates a dangerous scumteam?
The_Iqovian - Same question as Deathsword. You are an unclaimed Doctor on a Night of MYLO. There are two players left in the game, both of whom claimed Cop. One player has been reasonably seedy throughout the game, while the other has been very earnestly scumhunting throughout the match. One of them is scum. Who are you more likely to be suspicious of?
TheWetSheep - Do you believe in policy lynching? Ex, kill all Third Parties, lynch the AFKers, lynch all self-voters, ect.
Tiruin - I consider you one of the most dangerous players in the game for how you manage to diffuse attention against yourself, and for generally being the last person I suspect to turn into a mutant dinosaur monster. So I shall ask you directly. Are you a mutant dinosaur monster this game?
Toaster - What is your agenda for Day 1? How do you decide who to lynch?
TolyK - I have not seen you around much, but as I understand it you are a bit of a veteran. How do you define your own gameplay?
Nerjin:
@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?
For confirmed Town: NQT, TolyK, and Toaster.
I respect NQT for his ability to rationalize, and his ability to keep tabs on a multitude of people at once. He's a good resource for a town team. I don't know enough about TolyK, but as I understand it he has participated in quite a few BYORs in the past. As for Toaster... Honestly I don't know. I really have a good feeling about Toaster being town.
Tiruin however, scares me the most as she strikes me as a very crafty individual. Given that I generally don't suspect her of ill, it makes her that much more dangerous in that mind. The innocent one is always the knife murderer. I just know it.
Post by: Cheeetar on October 29, 2013, 10:20:12 pm
@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?
I'd quite like if I was confirmed town so I could vote for and argue against whoever I thought was most scummy without them being able to redirect attention onto me. I haven't played with most of the people here so I'm having trouble thinking about who else I'd like confirmed town. The_Iqovian and Tiruin, are people who are generally quite smart and would make good confirmed townies.
The most devastating scum player would clearly be
Cheeetar - Are you satisfied with your role?\Absolutely!
Post by: Toaster on October 29, 2013, 10:26:38 pm
Nerjin:
@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?
Assuming I can't pick myself, I'd go with one solid playmaker and two people I can't read. NQT might be interesting in the former position- he's willing to do the analytical work. For the latter, uh... someone I've never played with and can't read like The_Iqovian and then perhaps Tiruin.
As scum? Hmmm... really, I have trouble picking any one name out of this lot. Hapah, maybe?
Birdy:
Toaster - What is your agenda for Day 1? How do you decide who to lynch?
Find scum and have fun. The same way I do always: read the players, question what doesn't look right, and wheedle my way through the outer facade into the scummy nougat interior.
As for Toaster... Honestly I don't know. I really have a good feeling about Toaster being town.
I've always considered my town game weaker than my scum game, ironically.
Shakerag: Did you submit a role that is going to fundamentally alter the game for everyone, much like you always try to do? (You don't have to actually answer that.)
TheWetSheep: Let's assume you're mafia this game. If you could pick your scumbuddies, who would they be?
Imp: Assume you have a one-shot daykill. Under what circumstances would you use it? Specifically, if you were about to be lynched but had no suspects at the time, would you fire it at random?
Cheeetar: What have you learned about Mafia in your absence from playing here?
Post by: Hapah on October 29, 2013, 11:20:33 pm
@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?#1 Preferred Townie, far and away, would be Tir. She can put up a lot of text, and being able to go through it without trying to reason out every angle on every point would save me so much time and be a big help. Assuming you're only talking about people in this game, NQT and probably Toaster would probably be the other two.
As for scum, I dunno: I guess I'd say one of the new guys, as I tend to cut newbies too much slack. A new face with a decent grasp on the game could probably give me fits.
Hapah - You were rather passive in your last game as scum, and managed to survive a good time for it. For do plan addressing this game scumbucket?(I'm guessing there's some autocorrect issue going on there and the question is something along the lines of "How to plan to address it this game?")
To be fair, I got drafted into that game (the reason I didn't sign up initially is that I didn't think I had enough time to do it justice; I absolutely love LNCP games). And the game was a little unusual in and of itself: I was "scum" without a kill that needed to figure out how to keep 1 3rd party dead and another alive. I noticed a couple of things that I didn't bring up because it wasn't in my interests, but be aware that my play can almost always be described as a little reserved.
Quote from: Toaster
Shakerag: Did you submit a role that is going to fundamentally alter the game for everyone, much like you always try to do? (You don't have to actually answer that.)If D2 starts and votes are now determined by how long your winchain against Wuba in Liar's Dice is or something crazy like that, I'ma flip.
Toaster
Cheeetar: What have you learned about Mafia in your absence from playing here?You can wait until after he answers, but what could one learn about Mafia without playing Mafia?
Post by: Cheeetar on October 29, 2013, 11:27:53 pm
Cheeetar: What have you learned about Mafia in your absence from playing here?
I'm going to have to echo Hapah here- not really all that much.
Post by: Toaster on October 29, 2013, 11:37:40 pm
Quote from: ToasterShakerag: Did you submit a role that is going to fundamentally alter the game for everyone, much like you always try to do? (You don't have to actually answer that.)If D2 starts and votes are now determined by how long your winchain against Wuba in Liar's Dice is or something crazy like that, I'ma flip.
Oh come on- Liar's Dice voting would have been an incredible social experiment. Hell to play, sure, but very interesting to look back on.
ToasterCheeetar: What have you learned about Mafia in your absence from playing here?You can wait until after he answers, but what could one learn about Mafia without playing Mafia?
Cheeetar too:
Note I did say "absence from playing here" implying playing elsewhere could have happened. Also, I'm pretty sure I've asked this question before and gotten an informative response.
In any case, an expected answer would be something about shifts of perspective or how the reverse happened (how skills learned here were applied.) In terms of scum hunting, probably not worth a lot, but at the start of the game, seeing how a question is answered can be as informative as the answer itself.
What kind of RVS questions do you expect to have a useful answer?
Post by: Cheeetar on October 29, 2013, 11:49:22 pm
Cheeetar too:
Note I did say "absence from playing here" implying playing elsewhere could have happened. Also, I'm pretty sure I've asked this question before and gotten an informative response.
In any case, an expected answer would be something about shifts of perspective or how the reverse happened (how skills learned here were applied.) In terms of scum hunting, probably not worth a lot, but at the start of the game, seeing how a question is answered can be as informative as the answer itself.
What kind of RVS questions do you expect to have a useful answer?
I haven't played elsewhere either, unfortunately.
Useful in what sense- useful to you, Toaster, or useful to the town? If you were scum, and everybody told you who they thought the best townie would be (and as scum you knew for a fact that they were a townie or third party) then you'd have a pretty good night one target for mafia kill. Useful to the town, I suppose questions like 'if you were scum what would you do in this circumstance', comparing their responses to both their previous games as scum and how they act from then on.
Post by: Tiruin on October 30, 2013, 12:22:31 am
Nerjin
Alright, let's rock.Starting with a general question, eh? How will you learn from the actions and responses? What if a player gives a subjective response?
@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?
I would like Cheetar [Don't know you bro.], Imp [Is totally awesome <3] aaand Hapah [Vague reads all over and I still love his playstyle enough to regard him highly] to be confirmed town in that scenario. I think Toaster is the most devastating as scum because confirmation bias and that the only tell he'll be telling is if he's hyper aggressive and grumpy at the same time and and and...yeah. Experienced veteran shaped like itself - A Toaster.
Why did you not append a 'why' at the end of that query? Why do you ask in general instead of poking at specific people? Is voting pattern a plausible scumhunting theory to you?
birdy51
Tiruin - I consider you one of the most dangerous players in the game for how you manage to diffuse attention against yourself, and for generally being the last person I suspect to turn into a mutant dinosaur monster. So I shall ask you directly. Are you a mutant dinosaur monster this game?*RAAAWWWWRRRRGHGHRAAAAAAAGHHHHHH!!!*
Translation: {...I'm FoS'd for some reason already? Huh. Why is that?
Aaaalso, rawr >:3 I is a reptile! Or..amphibian. I'm unsure what dinosaur I was as it seems you're referring to that one game where I was a benevolent SK..until I became an SK. No, I'm not a mutant dinosaur nor anything related to reptiles. I am a tangible person with no abnormalities and anything related to genetic origin. I am not a monster, you mean jerk :I
Why do you ask such questions without leaving a pertinent note to the question? Also why that exact question? How do you view the usefulness of a FoS and a vote?
RAWR!}
Cheet (This abbreviated name ok for you?)
How do you know me? Where is your basis coming from? Who is The_Iqovian for you?@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?
I'd quite like if I was confirmed town so I could vote for and argue against whoever I thought was most scummy without them being able to redirect attention onto me. I haven't played with most of the people here so I'm having trouble thinking about who else I'd like confirmed town. The_Iqovian and Tiruin, are people who are generally quite smart and would make good confirmed townies.
The most devastating scum player would clearly beWebadictToaster.
Nextly, would knowledge of the players give a more understandable view to you, or their posts by themselves, only?
Toaster: Given the randomness in a BYOR, is there any notes which would stand as a rule for you compared to how actions come and go? If you were a tracker-type, how would you judge seeing someone go to another and then see a kill come as a result? If you were a doctor-type, how would you see the general audience and upon what would you judge who to target?
...But you play with me commonly. Why am I on that list?@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?
Assuming I can't pick myself, I'd go with one solid playmaker and two people I can't read. NQT might be interesting in the former position- he's willing to do the analytical work. For the latter, uh... someone I've never played with and can't read like The_Iqovian and then perhaps Tiruin.
As scum? Hmmm... really, I have trouble picking any one name out of this lot. Hapah, maybe?
#1 Preferred Townie, far and away, would be Tir.<3 Thanks :)
Quote
She can put up a lot of text, and being able to go through it without trying to reason out every angle on every point would save me so much time and be a big help....Wait, I think that was a bad thing..erm, sorry for that. D:
Anywhoo, Hapah: A BYOR is different from a normal game, that can be said. How would you judge the general night action? Restating: Would things which would be considered exacts in other games (ie Protect > Signifies the person acting on such is most probably non-scum, or scum protecting another scum) be the same for you here, emphasizing on how they relate in guessing the person's alignment? How do you find BYOR's in general compared to a normal game?
...Why NQT and Toaster for the next two?
Hapah:Bah. I played it with Web. I like guessing his stances. :3Quote from: ToasterShakerag: Did you submit a role that is going to fundamentally alter the game for everyone, much like you always try to do? (You don't have to actually answer that.)If D2 starts and votes are now determined by how long your winchain against Wuba in Liar's Dice is or something crazy like that, I'ma flip.
Oh come on- Liar's Dice voting would have been an incredible social experiment. Hell to play, sure, but very interesting to look back on.
Everyone is predictable to a point..differing between points. :P
But yeah, Liar's Dice. Awesome simple game. Webadict: May I use that as an example in any future social/philosophical experiment I'll be taking?
Post by: Cheeetar on October 30, 2013, 12:42:39 am
Cheet (This abbreviated name ok for you?)
How do you know me? Where is your basis coming from? Who is The_Iqovian for you?
Nextly, would knowledge of the players give a more understandable view to you, or their posts by themselves, only?
I was semi-following along with The Lonely Prince mafia game, which you won as a townie. The_Iqovian is a person who I know is smart because I've played strategy games with him in the past, and I think he'd be a boon as town.
I'm a little unsure about the last question, but I'd say knowing how a person generally acts would be great so I'd know when they were not acting as they usually are (and thus hiding a terrible secret).
Post by: Imp on October 30, 2013, 01:18:16 am
@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?
I'll pick Tiruin, Toaster, and Shakerag as confirmed Town. The first two because I've interacted a little with them and feel they're very strong players who I believe I can understand well and be understood by well. I recall Shakerag as a player in some of the finished games I've read, and something I can't recall makes him my third pick, perhaps because he might be another in that category.
I have heard others talk about how Toaster is very hard to catch as Scum, so I'll name him as the most dangerous Scum - otherwise I have no idea.
Nerjin, your own question back at you, what are your answers? Also, how comfortable do you feel keeping track of this number of players?
Birdy:
Imp - You are scum. Right off the bat, you are confronted with the devil himself in Townie Form during RVS and he tunnels aggressively. How do you get him off your back?
Very situational, to accurately answer I'd need to know his exact attack(s). My method would probably take one or both of these main paths - I'd interact with his tunnel in a reasonable fashion while mostly ignoring it to do my own Scumhunting (which may or may not include him for reasons that may or may not include his tunnel) or I'd directly confront the logic and statements made by him in his tunneling to challenge his arguments' accuracy, his motives in the tunnel, and his overall Scumhunting and the rest of his play.
A question for you: How concerned are you about lurkers, and what are your primary strategies for dealing with them?
Toaster:
Imp: Assume you have a one-shot daykill. Under what circumstances would you use it? Specifically, if you were about to be lynched but had no suspects at the time, would you fire it at random?
The 'under what circumstances' question is so vague I can only answer with 'those that suited my understanding of the game and my wincon'.
Your specific version, I would not fire my oneshot at random, though I'm confused why/how I could have no suspects by the time a D is ending.
If I was certain I was the lynch choice, I would claim my oneshot kill and discuss with everyone active to help evaluate a good second choice for Scum (clearly I'm top choice since I'm the lynch pick) and I'd use it on that person before I died.
Even if others have Daykills too and someone used theirs to stop me from using mine, that's the same outcome, only actually better. I was about to be lynched; I die anyway. The second scummiest was about to be one shot, that player almost certainly gets the lynch. But anyone who'd use their oneshot on me to keep me from oneshotting the group's second lynch choice - that's a Town hostile dayshot and I'm glad to carry it out of the game with me.
Toaster, pretend you have a one shot power: at the start of play you pick any two players and they swap roles (but not alignments), neither is informed that you caused the swap. If you choose to use this power with yourself as one of the players selected to be roleswapped, one of your newly swapped-in abilities, whatever those are, will gain a single unblockable use. Who would you pick to swap with whom?
notquitethere: could a picture of your role be accurately described using less than 1000 words?
TolyK: would you have felt disappointed if your role was assigned a jester's wincon?
Tiruin: Why do you like me so much? I know why I like you, but I have no idea why you like me!
Cheeetar: You're active! You're answering! Why are you not also asking? .... Why do you think no one else has asked you this question before I did?
Hapah: Which would you enjoy playing more, the role of a guardian angel or the role of a brother? Would your answer change if you got to pick who your role was connected to?
Deathsword: Pretend your only night-useable ability allowed you to choose to either block someone (both from receiving or taking actions) or to redirect someone (again, that redirection applies both to actions targeting that player, and to actions that player tries to make). Which would you probably use more often, and why?
The_Iqovian: Ignoring the lurker versions, which role(s) have you least enjoyed playing against?
TheWetSheep: What part of D1 do you like best?
Shakerag: When you are Scum, which Town role(s), and which third party role(s) do you find the most problematic?
Post by: Cheeetar on October 30, 2013, 01:48:01 am
Cheeetar: You're active! You're answering! Why are you not also asking? .... Why do you think no one else has asked you this question before I did?
I realise the worth of the wild mass questioning of day 1 in that it gives people something to actually talk about and helps clue the town in on who's scummy, but I feel that there're more than enough questions already being asked, and I'd feel more confident asking questions when I have something of substance to act upon. I've probably (?) not been asked before because people are trying to draw everybody into the conversation.
Imp, do you feel that passive play on day 1 is scummy?
Post by: Imp on October 30, 2013, 02:28:35 am
Imp, do you feel that passive play on day 1 is scummy?
If you mean passive play during part of D1, no and especially not by itself. If you mean passive play throughout the entirety of D1, yes. In general, I expect people to play in ways that they both enjoy and which supports achieving their wincon. A Scum wincon typically seems to require less activity than the Town wincon and more activity gives more information, which Town has more need of. I'm far more interested in overall and broad patterns than I am occasional moments, but I'm really interested in trying to differentiate Scum from Scummy and I believe that shows best in behavior over time.
We're here to do a job. I don't hear much about passivity finding Scum. Could you offer some links to help me find where passive play has been used effectively to assist and ensure Town wins?
Post by: The_Iqovian on October 30, 2013, 02:39:07 am
Alright, let's rock.
@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?
I'd rather enjoy being confirmed town, since I've always wondered what it feels like.
I'd like Cheeetar to be confirmed town, so I don't have to plot against the only person here that I know.
Apparently Tiruin being a townie is good? So I'd like that.
And Toaster is apparently the most devastating scum, so I'll say him.
The_Iqovian - Same question as Deathsword. You are an unclaimed Doctor on a Night of MYLO. There are two players left in the game, both of whom claimed Cop. One player has been reasonably seedy throughout the game, while the other has been very earnestly scumhunting throughout the match. One of them is scum. Who are you more likely to be suspicious of?
All other things being equal? The seedy guy, especially if he's stayed seedy all the way through the end.
The_Iqovian: Ignoring the lurker versions, which role(s) have you least enjoyed playing against?
I once played with a ventriloquist in the game. Really, really annoying.
Post by: Cheeetar on October 30, 2013, 02:44:32 am
We're here to do a job. I don't hear much about passivity finding Scum. Could you offer some links to help me find where passive play has been used effectively to assist and ensure Town wins?
I think it's more that being too aggressive, or tunnel visioning on the wrong person, might lead to a townie lynched.
Post by: webadict on October 30, 2013, 07:33:55 am
PFP - :'( // :-\ // :( are my t???wohree predominant moods IRL and thus I believe I'll be lacking to post in quite a few hours because stuffy stuffs.
Webadict: May I use that as an example in any future social/philosophical experiment I'll be taking?Well, I don't own the game, so yeah. However, I demand 100% of the money. No, 150%. Yeah. 200%...
Vote Count
------------------------
birdy51 -
Cheeetar -
Deathsword -
Hapah - birdy51,
Imp -
Nerjin -
notquitethere -
Shakerag -
The_Iqovian -
TheWetSheep -
Tiruin -
Toaster - Hapah,
TolyK -
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Cheeetar, Deathsword, Imp, Nerjin, notquitethere, Shakerag, The_Iqovian, TheWetSheep, Tiruin, Toaster, TolyK,
7 To Hammer. Day ends Monday 8 PM Central.
Post by: notquitethere on October 30, 2013, 07:41:52 am
@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devastating as scum?This is not too bad a question as it at least informs you of how familiar each player is with the meta's of other players. I'd like The Iqovian and Cheeetar confirmed town as I've never played with them before and newplayers often get lynched for making retrospectively obvious mistakes. I'd obviously like myself confirmed as town as it's much easier to press cases when players can't counter-accuse you of having a malevolent agenda (I've actually been in a similar situation a few times having been confirmed benevolent 3rd party). I think Imp could be devastating as scum as she puts a lot of effort into the game and so can probably throw up a passable town-facade with bogus scum-hunting. What's your answer to the very same question?
Birdy
Honestly I don't know. I really have a good feeling about Toaster being town.Even before he's posted in this game?
Cheetar— in a role madness game like this, how much stock do you put in traditional scumhunting vs. players relying on their abilities?
Toaster— do you anticipate Nerjin following up on the replies he's got from his catch-all question?
Hapah— do you think it's important to talk to everyone on Day 1?
Tiruin— if you're a benevolent third party will you be tempted to claim early again?
Imp
notquitethere: could a picture of your role be accurately described using less than 1000 words?Possibly. It depends on what the criteria are for 'accurately described'.
If initial D1 questions have any use beyond just starting a conversation, it's to get a feel for player's style and set up verbal traps that you can catch them out on later (when they behave contrary to the way that they stated). Your question is cute but what does it achieve?
The Iqovian— your opening post in this game was wholly passive. Is this kind of play normal for you?
TolyK— you've played a lot of role heavy games right? Are there any really common things we should be looking out for?
Shakerag— I might be wrong but think the general subforum consensus might be moving away from random votes and hypothetical questions at the beginning of games. What do you think is the most fruitful-for-town way to start D1?
Deathsword, ol' buddy ol' pal, are massclaims pro-town and if so when?
Sheep— how would you play the game if you were a Survivor?
Spoiler: In Another World (click to show/hide)
Post by: Cheeetar on October 30, 2013, 07:57:59 am
Cheeetar— in a role madness game like this, how much stock do you put in traditional scumhunting vs. players relying on their abilities?
Scumhunting is just as useful as it always is to ensure a town victory.
Post by: notquitethere on October 30, 2013, 08:03:14 am
Scumhunting is just as useful as it always is to ensure a town victory.That's a very bland response, but from this would I be right in assuming then that you intend to actively pursue scum in this game?
Post by: Teneb on October 30, 2013, 08:06:41 am
Alright, let's rock.
@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?
NQT, Tiruin and Hapah for both. It can be hard to get reads on them (for me, anyway), so knowing if they are town can reduce confusion, while, if they are scum, it may be more difficult to figure it out.
Deathsword - You are an unclaimed Doctor on a Night of MYLO. There are two players left in the game, both of whom claimed Cop. One player has been reasonably seedy throughout the game, while the other has been very earnestly scumhunting throughout the match. One of them is scum. Who are you more likely to be suspicious of?I'd be more suspicious of the "seedy" player, since, after all, they have been acting shady.
Deathsword: Pretend your only night-useable ability allowed you to choose to either block someone (both from receiving or taking actions) or to redirect someone (again, that redirection applies both to actions targeting that player, and to actions that player tries to make). Which would you probably use more often, and why?Redirect. I really like redirects and it can, if used right or with enough luck, destroy the plans of scum or third party.
Deathsword, ol' buddy ol' pal, are massclaims pro-town and if so when?In any situation, it depends a lot. It can be quite effective to remove scum near the end of the game, but it also tells scum just who is the most dangerous player, power-wise. So, to answer you question, they are neither pro-town or pro-scum, but instead can benefit both. An early massclaim would probably benefit town less than a late-game one.
Iqovian: You have previous forum mafia experience, correct? Where did/do you normally play?
Birdy: How would you play if you were a sk?
TheWetSheep: Let's say that you have a protect power and another player claims to have a cop-like power. Would you protect that player, even though they may be scum?
Post by: Cheeetar on October 30, 2013, 08:12:11 am
Scumhunting is just as useful as it always is to ensure a town victory.That's a very bland response, but from this would I be right in assuming then that you intend to actively pursue scum in this game?
If I wasn't planning on actively pursuing scum then I'd be a very poor townie. I'll keep my eyes peeled for when somebody does something I think is scummy, and jump on it.
Post by: The_Iqovian on October 30, 2013, 08:44:43 am
Iqovian: You have previous forum mafia experience, correct? Where did/do you normally play?I do have previous mafia experience, although it is email mafia, not forum mafia.
I played a few times with some friends after one of them found and became obsessed with it on the pokemon forums. It was a while ago, so I'm rustier at this than a very rusty thing.
The Iqovian— your opening post in this game was wholly passive. Is this kind of play normal for you?Well there's no one to shift any of the large amounts of blame I'm sure to accrue onto yet, and I can't read any of you. So there isn't that much to say, yet.
Post by: Shakerag on October 30, 2013, 12:00:45 pm
@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?birdy51, The_Iqovian, and Imp for the first and Toaster for the second.
How does asking this question to everyone lead to you getting leads on scum?
birdy51:
Shakerag - What do you think creates a dangerous scumteam?Underpowered town, overpowered scum, and/or lack of participation from town.
Toaster:
Shakerag: Did you submit a role that is going to fundamentally alter the game for everyone, much like you always try to do? (You don't have to actually answer that.)I just try to keep things interesting, is all. It is in webadict's hands.
Would you ever consider shooting for a refuge in audacity gamibt, and if so, when?
Imp:
Shakerag: When you are Scum, which Town role(s), and which third party role(s) do you find the most problematic?Hmm. Have to think back here. As scum, I'd say anything investigative (watcher, tracker, cop, etc.), and third party roles would largely be serial killers. I can't remember having many issues with third party roles in previous games as scum. I also have a poor memory, so that may not be saying much.
NQT:
Shakerag— I might be wrong but think the general subforum consensus might be moving away from random votes and hypothetical questions at the beginning of games. What do you think is the most fruitful-for-town way to start D1?Honestly? I don't really know of a better way than how we're doing it already. I know this topic has come up before, but I don't remember any particularly good conclusions coming from it.
TolyK: What do you make of there being little voting so far in the Random Voting Stage of this game?
Post by: TheWetSheep on October 30, 2013, 04:17:19 pm
Nerjin:
@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?Confirmed town: Hapah, Tiruin, Shakerag
Dangerous scum: Tiruin or Toaster
What have you learned from peoples replies? Were you surprised by anything?
Birdy:
TheWetSheep - Do you believe in policy lynching? Ex, kill all Third Parties, lynch the AFKers, lynch all self-voters, ect.No. I don't think there is any event that always merits the same action; every circumstance must be taken into account.
Cheeetar - Are you satisfied with your role?I love the smell of rolefishing in the morning. Why did you ask this?
Imp:
TheWetSheep: What part of D1 do you like best?When we leave RVS and get some actual suspicions.
NQT:
Sheep— how would you play the game if you were a Survivor?I would try as hard as possible to be mediocre and not stand out.
Deathsword:
TheWetSheep: Let's say that you have a protect power and another player claims to have a cop-like power. Would you protect that player, even though they may be scum?Yes, if nobody else had claimed.
Iqovian: Do you trust common methods, or do you prefer to be innovative and unconventional in your scumhunting?
Toaster: What do find is the most effective scumhunting tactic?
Post by: birdy51 on October 30, 2013, 05:37:01 pm
birdy51:Shakerag - What do you think creates a dangerous scumteam?Underpowered town, overpowered scum, and/or lack of participation from town.
Deathsword
Deathsword - You are an unclaimed Doctor on a Night of MYLO. There are two players left in the game, both of whom claimed Cop. One player has been reasonably seedy throughout the game, while the other has been very earnestly scumhunting throughout the match. One of them is scum. Who are you more likely to be suspicious of?I'd be more suspicious of the "seedy" player, since, after all, they have been acting shady.
Birdy: How would you play if you were a sk?
What stops a righteous individual from being scum as well? The people who are scum very well could be the people you last suspect.
For a point of interest, as a serial killer I would do my dandiest to look like I am a earnest townie. I would not sit on the sidelines, as my only chance of winning would mean not attracting a lynch while still flying under the radar of the Mafia. Once they are disposed of, I can continue to pick off the townies until I remain the last man standing.
NQT
BirdyHonestly I don't know. I really have a good feeling about Toaster being town.Even before he's posted in this game?
Preemptive intuition. Something tells me that Toaster is going to do something interesting in this game. What that might be, I have absolutely no clue.
Birdy:
A question for you: How concerned are you about lurkers, and what are your primary strategies for dealing with them?
Lurkers bother me, because I tend to be lurker on occasion myself. It's not something I usually mean to do. I simply get caught up in something or another and I have to take a break.
This makes me wary with dealing with them, mostly because I am largely sympathetic with their plight. Mafia can be very time consuming. Then, attacking a faceless target seems redundant to me. So, as to a strategy to dealing with them, I try to be accommodating. If they need an extension, I am normally willing to give it. If they absolutely will not post, let them either be replaced or have the Mod Kill them. At the end of the day, I would rather work with who is still in the game.
HapahHapah - You were rather passive in your last game as scum, and managed to survive a good time for it. For do plan addressing this game scumbucket?(I'm guessing there's some autocorrect issue going on there and the question is something along the lines of "How to plan to address it this game?")
To be fair, I got drafted into that game (the reason I didn't sign up initially is that I didn't think I had enough time to do it justice; I absolutely love LNCP games). And the game was a little unusual in and of itself: I was "scum" without a kill that needed to figure out how to keep 1 3rd party dead and another alive. I noticed a couple of things that I didn't bring up because it wasn't in my interests, but be aware that my play can almost always be described as a little reserved.
Ergh… I should not type posts so late at night. That is a very fine example of poor english and I am a bit ashamed of it now. Regardless you did figure out what I was attempting to say, so I can accept that as an answer. I look forward to seeing what you can do this game! unvote
Tiruinbirdy51Tiruin - I consider you one of the most dangerous players in the game for how you manage to diffuse attention against yourself, and for generally being the last person I suspect to turn into a mutant dinosaur monster. So I shall ask you directly. Are you a mutant dinosaur monster this game?*RAAAWWWWRRRRGHGHRAAAAAAAGHHHHHH!!!*
Translation: {...I'm FoS'd for some reason already? Huh. Why is that?
Aaaalso, rawr >:3 I is a reptile! Or..amphibian. I'm unsure what dinosaur I was as it seems you're referring to that one game where I was a benevolent SK..until I became an SK. No, I'm not a mutant dinosaur nor anything related to reptiles. I am a tangible person with no abnormalities and anything related to genetic origin. I am not a monster, you mean jerk :I
Why do you ask such questions without leaving a pertinent note to the question? Also why that exact question? How do you view the usefulness of a FoS and a vote?
RAWR!}
SQUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!
Translation: {I'll have you know that Dinosaurs are the natural enemy of all Avian creatures of the sky. I shall not be roared at with impunity! It ruffles my feathers!
Now, I note that you use the word tangible in your response. This suggests that you might be actually implying the very opposite of what you are trying to say. In others, I believe that your role is intangible, something that cannot be touched. Furthermore, you related to me the fact that you are not a monster and that you are a person. What is not a monster and can't be touched? Casper the Friendly Ghost. I have you all figured out now.
Time for a more serious response though. First, Dinosaurs are not terribly common in Mafia. We both knew what dinosaur related incident I was referring to. Secondly, I was curious in seeing how you would respond. To the third and final question, last game (Witch's Coven) I used my vote piteously little. However, voting is important, as it is the main way that a Townie can telegraph his main suspicions effectively.
Part of me fears both you and Hapah. I am wary of what both of you could do as scum, so I chose to elect you as my main targets of suspicion. Thus, a vote and an FoS this early on.
TheWetSheepBirdy:TheWetSheep - Do you believe in policy lynching? Ex, kill all Third Parties, lynch the AFKers, lynch all self-voters, ect.No. I don't think there is any event that always merits the same action; every circumstance must be taken into account.Cheeetar - Are you satisfied with your role?I love the smell of rolefishing in the morning. Why did you ask this?
To the first, fair enough. I am in agreement in the idea that every situation demands it's own respect.
To the second, why are you so concerned about that question in particular? Are you really worried that I might be role fishing, or are you simply looking for a prospective target?
Post by: Cheeetar on October 30, 2013, 06:55:23 pm
Cheeetar - Are you satisfied with your role?I love the smell of rolefishing in the morning. Why did you ask this?
To the second, why are you so concerned about that question in particular? Are you really worried that I might be role fishing, or are you simply looking for a prospective target?
It's probably best if you answer the question proposed to you before you ask questions of Wet Sheep. You're deflecting a bit there.
Post by: Toaster on October 30, 2013, 08:40:50 pm
I haven't played elsewhere either, unfortunately.
Useful in what sense- useful to you, Toaster, or useful to the town? If you were scum, and everybody told you who they thought the best townie would be (and as scum you knew for a fact that they were a townie or third party) then you'd have a pretty good night one target for mafia kill. Useful to the town, I suppose questions like 'if you were scum what would you do in this circumstance', comparing their responses to both their previous games as scum and how they act from then on.
More me, but hey, if anyone can find scum with it, they can go ahead. Scum Toaster doesn't need anyone else's opinion when finding a NK target- in fact, any scum that needs help from the town picking a NK target is not a very threatening scum.
Tiruin:
Toaster: Given the randomness in a BYOR, is there any notes which would stand as a rule for you compared to how actions come and go? If you were a tracker-type, how would you judge seeing someone go to another and then see a kill come as a result? If you were a doctor-type, how would you see the general audience and upon what would you judge who to target?...But you play with me commonly. Why am I on that list?@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?
Assuming I can't pick myself, I'd go with one solid playmaker and two people I can't read. NQT might be interesting in the former position- he's willing to do the analytical work. For the latter, uh... someone I've never played with and can't read like The_Iqovian and then perhaps Tiruin.
As scum? Hmmm... really, I have trouble picking any one name out of this lot. Hapah, maybe?
With Web's BYORs, you have to play fast and loose and think on your feet. He's good at putting in crazy actions. Would I claim a guilty-looking track? There's a good chance I would, especially if it wasn't from N1 (so there are fewer players involved.) It's a good way to get the target to break town or scum. Plus, you can analyze the reactions of others to it.
As a doc, I'd protect people that best filled two criteria: 1) Are likely town 2) Are likely NK targets.
I put you on the list because I have trouble reading you.
Imp:
Toaster:Imp: Assume you have a one-shot daykill. Under what circumstances would you use it? Specifically, if you were about to be lynched but had no suspects at the time, would you fire it at random?Spoiler: Response, spoilered for length (click to show/hide)
Toaster, pretend you have a one shot power: at the start of play you pick any two players and they swap roles (but not alignments), neither is informed that you caused the swap. If you choose to use this power with yourself as one of the players selected to be roleswapped, one of your newly swapped-in abilities, whatever those are, will gain a single unblockable use. Who would you pick to swap with whom?
Fair enough on your response.
That's a fairly specific power. Whether I swapped my role away depends entirely on the value of my own role. If I liked it, I'd keep it; if not, it'd be gone. If it's at start of play, picking players is really irrelevant since I would have no data. I'd pick people I wanted to screw with, I guess.
NQT:
Toaster— do you anticipate Nerjin following up on the replies he's got from his catch-all question?
Nope. I don't expect anyone who asks such broad-spectrum questions to do much following up at all. This applies to individual questions to everyone like you did as well. Aren't you doing that just to defeat your own tell?
Shakerag:
Toaster:Shakerag: Did you submit a role that is going to fundamentally alter the game for everyone, much like you always try to do? (You don't have to actually answer that.)I just try to keep things interesting, is all. It is in webadict's hands.
Would you ever consider shooting for a refuge in audacity gamibt, and if so, when?
Probably not. I tend to play it safe, and I have a poor track record of pulling off crazy gambits. (See: WC3)
Sheep:
Toaster: What do find is the most effective scumhunting tactic?
Playing it by the books. Read posts, question anything suspicious, follow up on those things that are still objectionable. Present a clear and concise case when the time comes.
How valid of a tell do you think rolefishing is?
Birdy: Do you think OMGUS is a valid tell?
Post by: Teneb on October 30, 2013, 08:49:53 pm
ShakeragWas there supposed to be something here?birdy51:Shakerag - What do you think creates a dangerous scumteam?Underpowered town, overpowered scum, and/or lack of participation from town.
DeathswordDeathsword - You are an unclaimed Doctor on a Night of MYLO. There are two players left in the game, both of whom claimed Cop. One player has been reasonably seedy throughout the game, while the other has been very earnestly scumhunting throughout the match. One of them is scum. Who are you more likely to be suspicious of?I'd be more suspicious of the "seedy" player, since, after all, they have been acting shady.Quote
What stops a righteous individual from being scum as well? The people who are scum very well could be the people you last suspect.
If a person has been acting scummy, and another has not, then the scummy one is clearly the best lynch target. If someone is acting as town, and another is not, it's more likely that the un-townly one is, indeed, not town.NQTRight. Look, are you in a team with Toaster or trying to make him look bad if you flip scum? Either way, the above statement is quite wierd and not entirly unsuspicious.BirdyHonestly I don't know. I really have a good feeling about Toaster being town.Even before he's posted in this game?
Preemptive intuition. Something tells me that Toaster is going to do something interesting in this game. What that might be, I have absolutely no clue.This has already been mentioned by cheetar, but nice deflect bro.To the second, why are you so concerned about that question in particular? Are you really worried that I might be role fishing, or are you simply looking for a prospective target?Cheeetar - Are you satisfied with your role?I love the smell of rolefishing in the morning. Why did you ask this?
Post by: TheWetSheep on October 30, 2013, 09:01:31 pm
Mostly the latter, actually. I prefer pressuring people on valid points to randomly voting and asking hypotheticals. Why am I suspicious for voting you on a scumtell instead of random-voting?To the second, why are you so concerned about that question in particular? Are you really worried that I might be role fishing, or are you simply looking for a prospective target?Cheeetar - Are you satisfied with your role?I love the smell of rolefishing in the morning. Why did you ask this?
Toaster:
How valid of a tell do you think rolefishing is?Not too valid, particularly this case, which is mild. Like I said, that vote on Birdy wasn't so much suspicion about his rolefishing as wanting an alternative to randomvoting.
Post by: birdy51 on October 30, 2013, 09:59:27 pm
Cheeetar - Are you satisfied with your role?I love the smell of rolefishing in the morning. Why did you ask this?
To the second, why are you so concerned about that question in particular? Are you really worried that I might be role fishing, or are you simply looking for a prospective target?
It's probably best if you answer the question proposed to you before you ask questions of Wet Sheep. You're deflecting a bit there.
I am fully aware of what I am doing.
But there are times when answering a question can wait, especially when I question the validity of why he is concerned with my "role fishing" as he calls it. If he can justify his question well enough, then I will have no issue in giving him a proper reply.
Also... Since I am posting, I apologize for that quote mess. A non marred version can be found below in this spoiler:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Toaster:
Birdy: Do you think OMGUS is a valid tell?
It's hard to say. Traditionally, OMGUS is a tell, but nowadays it's very much a meta-tell. People know so much about it, that they could honestly be standing on either side of the scum/townie spectrum and get away with it.
For instance, I accept that I am committing OMGUS on TheWetSheep because his question and his vote just doesn't feel right. If he isn't going to be around much due to being busy, why would he go through the process of throwing a vote onto me? It feels mechanical and it makes me wary. So this a scumtell? That is for you all to decide.
To turn the tables though, I noticed you asked a similar question to TheWetSheep, regarding his suspicions against me. Why is that?
Deathsword:
Shakeragbirdy51:Shakerag - What do you think creates a dangerous scumteam?Underpowered town, overpowered scum, and/or lack of participation from town.
Quote
If a person has been acting scummy, and another has not, then the scummy one is clearly the best lynch target. If someone is acting as town, and another is not, it's more likely that the un-townly one is, indeed, not town.
This has already been mentioned by cheetar, but nice deflect bro.
Right. Look, are you in a team with Toaster or trying to make him look bad if you flip scum? Either way, the above statement is quite wierd and not entirly unsuspicious.
Shakerag was an accident. His answer left a minimal impression on me. Given all the other excitement, I chose to let that particular question fall to the wayside.
I'm afraid I'm going to have respond you like this due to quote madness.
To the first, I tried to look for something on the Mafia Scum wiki, but I have ultimately failed. I've read it some where on that sight where it actually recommended considering lynching the Towniest player at LYLO. But instead of flashing that particular page heroically I shall have to make due with not being able to find it.
To the second, yes it was a deflection. I'm glad that you know what that is.
Finally, no. I am in no way shape or form in cahoots with Toaster, unless we both happen to be Townies. To be perfectly honest, the biggest reason I picked him because it was late at night and I couldn't think of another person. It's a bit entertaining how it's become a bit of a talking point though.
TheWetSheep:
Birdy:Mostly the latter, actually. I prefer pressuring people on valid points to randomly voting and asking hypotheticals. Why am I suspicious for voting you on a scumtell instead of random-voting?To the second, why are you so concerned about that question in particular? Are you really worried that I might be role fishing, or are you simply looking for a prospective target?Cheeetar - Are you satisfied with your role?I love the smell of rolefishing in the morning. Why did you ask this?
Toaster:How valid of a tell do you think rolefishing is?Not too valid, particularly this case, which is mild. Like I said, that vote on Birdy wasn't so much suspicion about his rolefishing as wanting an alternative to randomvoting.
Ergh… I am running out typing time for tonight, so I will first go ahead and answer your question since you have answered mine. Tit for tat.
I asked Cheeetar what he thought of his role out of curiosity and the fact that I was running out of RVS questions.
Now, as for you and why I dislike your vote. I can understand wanting to get out RVS, but I can hardly see how my post was role fishing. Given that I had innocent intentions when I wrote the question, it causes me to ponder what in particular made that one post stand out to you.
Post by: Hapah on October 30, 2013, 10:51:39 pm
Oh come on- Liar's Dice voting would have been an incredible social experiment. Hell to play, sure, but very interesting to look back on.I think it'd end up with a lot of grumpy people, personally. A game like that might (might) be interesting to watch, but I doubt anyone wants it just sprung on them out of nowhere.
What kind of RVS questions do you expect to have a useful answer?Game mechanics questions for newer people: you've got to get some sort of an idea of how they play the game, how experienced they are. For older hands, you've just got to pick at them with some little thing, see what sort of response you get. That's how I do it, anyway.
It's not bad, per se, you just put up a lot of content!#1 Preferred Townie, far and away, would be Tir.<3 Thanks :)QuoteShe can put up a lot of text, and being able to go through it without trying to reason out every angle on every point would save me so much time and be a big help....Wait, I think that was a bad thing..erm, sorry for that. D:
Anywhoo, Hapah: A BYOR is different from a normal game, that can be said. How would you judge the general night action? Restating: Would things which would be considered exacts in other games (ie Protect > Signifies the person acting on such is most probably non-scum, or scum protecting another scum) be the same for you here, emphasizing on how they relate in guessing the person's alignment? How do you find BYOR's in general compared to a normal game?In my opnion, the roles that conform to archtypes tend to be the expected alignments (Doctors are Town, etc.). They just tend to be a lot more powerful: seems like most people end up with 3 abilities or so instead of just the 1 in a normal Mafia game. And then some roles just break the mold, but you can't really categorize them.
...Why NQT and Toaster for the next two?Toaster because he's a cool dude (that's it, really). NQT because he has that same sort of analytical clockwork thought process that I do, and even if we don't come to same conclusion sometimes it's still interesting to read (and it'd keep me from taking him to task and fact-checking all the points if I knew he was town).
Quote from: Imp
Hapah: Which would you enjoy playing more, the role of a guardian angel or the role of a brother? Would your answer change if you got to pick who your role was connected to?I'm not familiar with those roles. What do they do? Is Brother the one that knows their sibling's alignment?
Quote from: NQT
Hapah— do you think it's important to talk to everyone on Day 1?Not particularly, no, as long as you're making progress. If you're questioning one person and it looks like they're getting a little jumpy, why move on?
Post by: Shakerag on October 30, 2013, 11:11:09 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on October 31, 2013, 01:14:56 am
Post by: TolyK on October 31, 2013, 01:38:09 am
First thoughts: Why Do People Think I'm Good At This Game?!
Alright, from the top. Morning post, so this is a quicky, and I won't ask any real questions yet, since I have circa 20 minutes.
TolyK - I have not seen you around much, but as I understand it you are a bit of a veteran. How do you define your own gameplay?Well, it's unusual, since I don't like asking many questions, I don't like voting for people unless I'm pretty sure they're scum, and I try to pull shenanigans in role-heavy games that sometimes work. And I like to joke around sometimes. TLDR: pretty bad XD
@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?Most devastating scum: Toaster, or possibly Tiruin.
Confirmed town wanted: Me, Tiruin (like to be on the same team as him >.>), Toaster (since he's smooth both ways)
TolyK: would you have felt disappointed if your role was assigned a jester's wincon?No. On the contrary - that would've been pretty epic. At the very least, I'd likely win. :D
TolyK— you've played a lot of role heavy games right? Are there any really common things we should be looking out for?Well, considering it's a WUBA game, there's likely "another" SK, since he modkilled one instantly, or a cult.
Common things? Don't say everything you know instantly, and always always always check facts with your facts.
And there's always gonna be this crazy jig that ruins a lot of stuff in BYOR's. See: BYO Cards, where my Auto ability gave me a day to myself.
TolyK: What do you make of there being little voting so far in the Random Voting Stage of this game?I think it's fine, considering quite a few players are of the newer variety. It also seems like I missed the whole RVS, so voting will probably be sorta low all game.
TolyK has yet to post and respond to the questions asked of him, despite having been online on the forums.Wait, when was I online? AFAIK, this is my first time online after the roles were sent out.
Birdy, Imp and Iqovian: If you were all one scum team and the one to the left of you (for Birdy this is Iqo) had a claim that was about to get proven wrong, what would you do?
Post by: Cheeetar on October 31, 2013, 02:16:05 am
TolyK has yet to post and respond to the questions asked of him, despite having been online on the forums.Wait, when was I online? AFAIK, this is my first time online after the roles were sent out.
I checked to see who hadn't been posting so much, noticed you hadn't posted, and when I checked your profile it said you were online.
Post by: Imp on October 31, 2013, 03:59:28 am
Explain what you mean by NQT being a solid playmaker?@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?Assuming I can't pick myself, I'd go with one solid playmaker and two people I can't read. NQT might be interesting in the former position- he's willing to do the analytical work. For the latter, uh... someone I've never played with and can't read like The_Iqovian and then perhaps Tiruin.
Shakerag: Did you submit a role that is going to fundamentally alter the game for everyone, much like you always try to do? (You don't have to actually answer that.)This seems to be a bit of an unusual question. Would you explain why you asked with that disclaimer, was it intended to warn the rest of us or did you have another purpose?
Birdy:
Lurkers bother me, because I tend to be lurker on occasion myself. It's not something I usually mean to do. I simply get caught up in something or another and I have to take a break.Will Mods usually replace or Mod Kill lurkers? How long of a lurk is generally acceptable before either happens, assuming the lurker didn't ask for a replacement?
This makes me wary with dealing with them, mostly because I am largely sympathetic with their plight. Mafia can be very time consuming. Then, attacking a faceless target seems redundant to me. So, as to a strategy to dealing with them, I try to be accommodating. If they need an extension, I am normally willing to give it. If they absolutely will not post, let them either be replaced or have the Mod Kill them. At the end of the day, I would rather work with who is still in the game.
What is your stance, and what are your strategies, when dealing with active lurkers?
notquitethere:
ImpSo far it's gained your answer and reaction. When I asked it, I'd considered your name, wondered what a picture of your name would look like, and thought 'A picture's worth a thousand words'.notquitethere: could a picture of your role be accurately described using less than 1000 words?Possibly. It depends on what the criteria are for 'accurately described'.
If initial D1 questions have any use beyond just starting a conversation, it's to get a feel for player's style and set up verbal traps that you can catch them out on later (when they behave contrary to the way that they stated). Your question is cute but what does it achieve?
When you asked Nerjin what his answer to his opening Everyone: question was, had you noticed that I'd asked him the same thing?
TolyK:
Birdy, Imp and Iqovian: If you were all one scum team and the one to the left of you (for Birdy this is Iqo) had a claim that was about to get proven wrong, what would you do?I'd need to know more details to give you any real answer. How do I know his counterclaim is about to be proven wrong? what's the state of the game; how is each player interacting with the others, especially in terms of scumpicks or outward cooperation with each other? In general though, I'd be working to achieve my wincon, and I'd do so in the most effective way I could find based on everything I knew and could understand about the circumstances of the game.
What would your main 'lynch me' strategy be? You seem happy about this idea, if it were your actual role do you think you'd try to conceal your enjoyment of how the game was going?TolyK: would you have felt disappointed if your role was assigned a jester's wincon?No. On the contrary - that would've been pretty epic. At the very least, I'd likely win. :D
Cheeetar:
No links, then. Is that because you're not aware of passive play having helped a Town win?We're here to do a job. I don't hear much about passivity finding Scum. Could you offer some links to help me find where passive play has been used effectively to assist and ensure Town wins?I think it's more that being too aggressive, or tunnel visioning on the wrong person, might lead to a townie lynched.
Does reactive play, rather than active play, help avoid lynching the wrong people? If so, how?
Hapah:
I'm not sure that either usually knows their target's alignment; definitely they sometimes do not. For the purpose of answering these questions, assume neither brother nor guardian angel would know their target's alignment.Quote from: ImpHapah: Which would you enjoy playing more, the role of a guardian angel or the role of a brother? Would your answer change if you got to pick who your role was connected to?I'm not familiar with those roles. What do they do? Is Brother the one that knows their sibling's alignment?
Here's a brother wincon:
Alignment: Brother
Wincon: You win when [player_name] wins.
Here's a guardian angel wincon (note I modified the quote to remove game specific information)
You are a Guardian Angel, sent to earth to protect [player_name]. Your one and only goal is to ensure that he lives to see the end of this nightmare. The heavens have plans for him in the future.
Deathsword:
What do you look for when deciding where to place a redirect?Deathsword: Pretend your only night-useable ability allowed you to choose to either block someone (both from receiving or taking actions) or to redirect someone (again, that redirection applies both to actions targeting that player, and to actions that player tries to make). Which would you probably use more often, and why?Redirect. I really like redirects and it can, if used right or with enough luck, destroy the plans of scum or third party.
The_Iqovian:
With what you know of forum Mafia, could someone use a ventriloquist's role powers in this style of the game? If so, would you explain how those would work?The_Iqovian: Ignoring the lurker versions, which role(s) have you least enjoyed playing against?I once played with a ventriloquist in the game. Really, really annoying.
If not, would you answer the question again considering only roles that you believe could be played in a forum-based Mafia game?
Shakerag:
Nerjin:What reasons for those selections?@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?birdy51, The_Iqovian, and Imp for the first and Toaster for the second.
Post by: Cheeetar on October 31, 2013, 04:10:11 am
Cheeetar:No links, then. Is that because you're not aware of passive play having helped a Town win?We're here to do a job. I don't hear much about passivity finding Scum. Could you offer some links to help me find where passive play has been used effectively to assist and ensure Town wins?I think it's more that being too aggressive, or tunnel visioning on the wrong person, might lead to a townie lynched.
Does reactive play, rather than active play, help avoid lynching the wrong people? If so, how?
I wouldn't be able to link you to a specific play, no- I'd probably have trouble linking you to an aggressive play that helped town win as well, without going back and reading through games I've played. I'd say, yes, reactive play does help avoid lynching the wrong people. The good guys tend to be reactive- police wait for people to commit crimes before arresting them, and so on. Aggressively questioning people can make them implicate themselves, but so can analysing the posts they make, and even townies can say stupid things that seems suspicious if they feel under pressure.
Post by: notquitethere on October 31, 2013, 05:04:04 am
In any situation, it depends a lot. It can be quite effective to remove scum near the end of the game, but it also tells scum just who is the most dangerous player, power-wise. So, to answer you question, they are neither pro-town or pro-scum, but instead can benefit both. An early massclaim would probably benefit town less than a late-game one.Yeah that seems reasonable. I'll be sure to refer back to this response if a massclaim is suggested in days to come.
The Cheeetar
If I wasn't planning on actively pursuing scum then I'd be a very poor townie. I'll keep my eyes peeled for when somebody does something I think is scummy, and jump on it.Uh huh, I'm not quite sure how merely keeping your eyes peeled counts as actively pursuing. Now in Scum Hunting the Cheeetar Way what would be a prime example of something scummy?
The Iqovian
Well there's no one to shift any of the large amounts of blame I'm sure to accrue onto yet, and I can't read any of you. So there isn't that much to say, yet.So your way of forming reads in the face of low-content is to... sit back and answer the handful of questions people pose?
Shakerag
Honestly? I don't really know of a better way than how we're doing it already. I know this topic has come up before, but I don't remember any particularly good conclusions coming from it.Yeah, I think in other forums they just start with a bunch of random votes before settling on whoever overreacted, bandwagoned or lurked the most in the RVS and that strikes me as even less helpful. Ideally, I'd like a N0 and so investigators/trackers etc. could have something to work on straight from the off.
Sheep
NQT:So I can understand from this that if you play mediocre and don't stand out in this game then you're implicitly claiming survivor? Or is that how you play scum as well?Sheep— how would you play the game if you were a Survivor?I would try as hard as possible to be mediocre and not stand out.
Toaster
Nope. I don't expect anyone who asks such broad-spectrum questions to do much following up at all. This applies to individual questions to everyone like you did as well. Aren't you doing that just to defeat your own tell?I follow up on my questions, and I don't see how I could 'defeat' my own tell as if I tried to attack everyone for bogus reasons it'd be pretty obvious. Or were you referring to the post-count thing? Do you have a problem with engaging everyone in conversation? I know there are only so many hours in the day...
Hapah
Uh— there's 12 other players. There's probably, what, three scum? So if you're not scum (an open question at this stage) then you've got only a 1/4 chance of catching scum in the first random person you start querying. I think you should definitely press people that are jumpy but you can press more than one person at a time.Quote from: NQTHapah— do you think it's important to talk to everyone on Day 1?Not particularly, no, as long as you're making progress. If you're questioning one person and it looks like they're getting a little jumpy, why move on?
TolyK
Well, considering it's a WUBA game, there's likely "another" SK, since he modkilled one instantly, or a cult.Good advice. I asked Deathsword this, but I think it'd be handy to get some varying perspectives. Do you think late game mass claims ever help town win?
Common things? Don't say everything you know instantly, and always always always check facts with your facts.
And there's always gonna be this crazy jig that ruins a lot of stuff in BYOR's. See: BYO Cards, where my Auto ability gave me a day to myself.
Imp
So far it's gained your answer and reaction. When I asked it, I'd considered your name, wondered what a picture of your name would look like, and thought 'A picture's worth a thousand words'.I suppose the reaction told you something. My avatar is a fair representation of my username, but it doesn't have anything to do with my role.
When you asked Nerjin what his answer to his opening Everyone: question was, had you noticed that I'd asked him the same thing?No I'd not spotted that: I do try to read everyone's posts but it's still possible to overlook some things. What do you think of big broad questions like what Nerjin asked?
Post by: Cheeetar on October 31, 2013, 05:36:55 am
The CheeetarIf I wasn't planning on actively pursuing scum then I'd be a very poor townie. I'll keep my eyes peeled for when somebody does something I think is scummy, and jump on it.Uh huh, I'm not quite sure how merely keeping your eyes peeled counts as actively pursuing. Now in Scum Hunting the Cheeetar Way what would be a prime example of something scummy?
Standard tells I suppose. Rolefishing, inconsistent arguments, defending scummy players, attacking and voting for players for no reason (excepting day 1 stuff designed to draw a reaction).
Is there a particular reason I'm 'The' Cheeetar, or did it just sound cooler?
Post by: notquitethere on October 31, 2013, 06:04:11 am
Standard tells I suppose. Rolefishing, inconsistent arguments, defending scummy players, attacking and voting for players for no reason (excepting day 1 stuff designed to draw a reaction).I see, so when do you think the drawing-a-reaction phase ends?
Is there a particular reason I'm 'The' Cheeetar, or did it just sound cooler?I guess I was thinking of The Cheat (http://www.hrwiki.org/wiki/The_Cheat).
Post by: Cheeetar on October 31, 2013, 06:29:48 am
CheeetarStandard tells I suppose. Rolefishing, inconsistent arguments, defending scummy players, attacking and voting for players for no reason (excepting day 1 stuff designed to draw a reaction).I see, so when do you think the drawing-a-reaction phase ends?
I'd say when people start earnestly voting for people because they believe they've found a scum player.
Is there a particular reason I'm 'The' Cheeetar, or did it just sound cooler?I guess I was thinking of The Cheat (http://www.hrwiki.org/wiki/The_Cheat).
Awesome.
Post by: TolyK on October 31, 2013, 10:15:17 am
Yeah, you posted just as I just got online, I guess.I checked to see who hadn't been posting so much, noticed you hadn't posted, and when I checked your profile it said you were online.TolyK has yet to post and respond to the questions asked of him, despite having been online on the forums.Wait, when was I online? AFAIK, this is my first time online after the roles were sent out.
TolyK:Makes sense. I'll get back to you when I hear the other answers.Birdy, Imp and Iqovian: If you were all one scum team and the one to the left of you (for Birdy this is Iqo) had a claim that was about to get proven wrong, what would you do?I'd need to know more details to give you any real answer. How do I know his counterclaim is about to be proven wrong? what's the state of the game; how is each player interacting with the others, especially in terms of scumpicks or outward cooperation with each other? In general though, I'd be working to achieve my wincon, and I'd do so in the most effective way I could find based on everything I knew and could understand about the circumstances of the game.
Quote from: Imp
Of course, however I think my lynch-me strategy would be making subtle slips and freaking out when someone mentions them.What would your main 'lynch me' strategy be? You seem happy about this idea, if it were your actual role do you think you'd try to conceal your enjoyment of how the game was going?TolyK: would you have felt disappointed if your role was assigned a jester's wincon?No. On the contrary - that would've been pretty epic. At the very least, I'd likely win. :D
TolyKI think a massclaim should be around the third day. Late-game ones mask too much info.Well, considering it's a WUBA game, there's likely "another" SK, since he modkilled one instantly, or a cult.Good advice. I asked Deathsword this, but I think it'd be handy to get some varying perspectives. Do you think late game mass claims ever help town win?
Common things? Don't say everything you know instantly, and always always always check facts with your facts.
And there's always gonna be this crazy jig that ruins a lot of stuff in BYOR's. See: BYO Cards, where my Auto ability gave me a day to myself.
Post by: Nerjin on October 31, 2013, 11:20:13 am
Nerjin - Glad to see you playing! What aspects draw you into Mafia?
The intrigue I suppose. There's also a lot of fun to be had being the one on the chopping block. If I had to pick I'd say: Most games let me simply power through obstacles. Mafia makes me thing them through.
@Tiruin
NerjinAlright, let's rock.Starting with a general question, eh? How will you learn from the actions and responses? What if a player gives a subjective response?
@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?
[. . .]
Why did you not append a 'why' at the end of that query? Why do you ask in general instead of poking at specific people? Is voting pattern a plausible scumhunting theory to you?
General questions are something new I'm trying out. Not sure if they'll stick around. The reason I want to try them is that they create a specific scenario and each player's answer shows how they react compared to other players.
I'll be honest, I thought I did put why there... My bad. As for voting pattern: Not really. I feel like the reason behind the votes is more important than any pattern that could emerge.
@Imp
Nerjin:@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?
Nerjin, your own question back at you, what are your answers? Also, how comfortable do you feel keeping track of this number of players?
Tiruin and Shakerag. Tiruin because she's a powerful player in my book and Shakerag for much the same reason. I'd also like NQT to be town because he's got that analytical mind going [even if sometimes, to me, it seems like he fail-towns too often (By which I mean he gets too ahead of himself and makes a newb-mistake in his eagerness)]. I also like Tiruin and NQT quite a bit and like to be on a team with semi-friends.
As for the most devastating scum: Tiruin for much the same reason as above. Her powerful play as town could just as easily be transfered to scum play.
How comfortable do I feel about there being this many players and my ability to keep track of them? Not at all.
@NQT
Nerjin@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devastating as scum?What's your answer to the very same question?
I won't answer that question[/joke]
@Shakerag
Nerjin:@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?[. . .]
How does asking this question to everyone lead to you getting leads on scum?
Already answered that. See my reply to Tiriun. As for giving me specific leads on certain players: It doesn't. Not really. BUT it does let me see their general play-style for the game and that'll help later on.
@TheWetSheep
Nerjin:@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?Confirmed town: Hapah, Tiruin, Shakerag
Dangerous scum: Tiruin or Toaster
What have you learned from peoples replies? Were you surprised by anything?
I learned that Tiruin seems a popular choice. I wasn't surprised by anything in particular, no.
@Cheeetar
I realise the worth of the wild mass questioning of day 1 in that it gives people something to actually talk about and helps clue the town in on who's scummy, but I feel that there're more than enough questions already being asked, and I'd feel more confident asking questions when I have something of substance to act upon. I've probably (?) not been asked before because people are trying to draw everybody into the conversation.
How'sabout you humor us then? What are you looking for on Day 1 that'll convince that it's time to start getting heavily involved?
Post by: notquitethere on October 31, 2013, 12:12:00 pm
Post by: Nerjin on October 31, 2013, 12:44:40 pm
Post by: notquitethere on October 31, 2013, 01:09:02 pm
Post by: Nerjin on October 31, 2013, 01:18:03 pm
Post by: birdy51 on October 31, 2013, 02:58:01 pm
TolyK - I have not seen you around much, but as I understand it you are a bit of a veteran. How do you define your own gameplay?Well, it's unusual, since I don't like asking many questions, I don't like voting for people unless I'm pretty sure they're scum, and I try to pull shenanigans in role-heavy games that sometimes work. And I like to joke around sometimes. TLDR: pretty bad XD
Birdy, Imp and Iqovian: If you were all one scum team and the one to the left of you (for Birdy this is Iqo) had a claim that was about to get proven wrong, what would you do?
I suppose you are a bit similar to me in some respects then! In the recent past I have had issues with voting willy-nilly. Now I'm just trying to use it to highlight who I trust the least. Shenanigans are always fun though!
Now, as per your question. I tend to see myself as a person who busses aggressively when pressed. If Iqovian makes digs himself a pit, it's his job to get out of it. In a situation where I know that my partner just dug his own grave with a potentially disastrous claim, I have no issue with calling him out on it. If he's going to die, I may as well make myself look pretty.
However, I may also try to leave an out or a counter against me. While I wear a combative face against them , I'm also just as likely to be plotting for some kind of method that they might save themselves with in the scum chat.
Imp:
Birdy:Lurkers bother me, because I tend to be lurker on occasion myself. It's not something I usually mean to do. I simply get caught up in something or another and I have to take a break.Will Mods usually replace or Mod Kill lurkers? How long of a lurk is generally acceptable before either happens, assuming the lurker didn't ask for a replacement?
This makes me wary with dealing with them, mostly because I am largely sympathetic with their plight. Mafia can be very time consuming. Then, attacking a faceless target seems redundant to me. So, as to a strategy to dealing with them, I try to be accommodating. If they need an extension, I am normally willing to give it. If they absolutely will not post, let them either be replaced or have the Mod Kill them. At the end of the day, I would rather work with who is still in the game.
What is your stance, and what are your strategies, when dealing with active lurkers?
Mods mix in a bit of both, depending on how long the absence is. Given that we already had Griffinpup killed off by Webaddict, I would assume that he leans more towards killing them if a player simply disappears, especially in a role heavy set-up like this one.
However, I don't really know when a it becomes critical to lynch a lurker, or when it simply becomes too long of an absence. As I stated, I really don't like having much to do with lurkers. I see them as an unpleasant reality about forum mafia; sometimes you just can't find the time to post or you don't have the will to. However, if you demand that I quantify, I say 48 days. If after two days you have posted absolutely nothing substantial, then that is cause for concern. You had best have a good excuse if you are away for that long.
Active lurking is a similar occurrence. Critical playing is necessary, otherwise gameplay will collapse. Thus players who post day after day merely to keep up appearances need to be treated with a watchful eye. Are they active lurking because they are making a conscious effort to lurk, or are they going for a particularly turbulent period of their life? Those are the questions I have to ask myself when examining a lurking player. If they fail to justify their lurking, then it is proper to pressure and/or lynch them.
Post by: TolyK on October 31, 2013, 03:20:40 pm
TolyK:You seem to be in the impression that I meant a single claim. I'll wait for the third response.TolyK - I have not seen you around much, but as I understand it you are a bit of a veteran. How do you define your own gameplay?Well, it's unusual, since I don't like asking many questions, I don't like voting for people unless I'm pretty sure they're scum, and I try to pull shenanigans in role-heavy games that sometimes work. And I like to joke around sometimes. TLDR: pretty bad XD
Birdy, Imp and Iqovian: If you were all one scum team and the one to the left of you (for Birdy this is Iqo) had a claim that was about to get proven wrong, what would you do?
I suppose you are a bit similar to me in some respects then! In the recent past I have had issues with voting willy-nilly. Now I'm just trying to use it to highlight who I trust the least. Shenanigans are always fun though!
Now, as per your question. I tend to see myself as a person who busses aggressively when pressed. If Iqovian makes digs himself a pit, it's his job to get out of it. In a situation where I know that my partner just dug his own grave with a potentially disastrous claim, I have no issue with calling him out on it. If he's going to die, I may as well make myself look pretty.
However, I may also try to leave an out or a counter against me. While I wear a combative face against them , I'm also just as likely to be plotting for some kind of method that they might save themselves with in the scum chat.
Post by: Toaster on October 31, 2013, 03:48:45 pm
Toaster:How valid of a tell do you think rolefishing is?Not too valid, particularly this case, which is mild. Like I said, that vote on Birdy wasn't so much suspicion about his rolefishing as wanting an alternative to randomvoting.
Fair enough.
Birdy:
Toaster:Birdy: Do you think OMGUS is a valid tell?
It's hard to say. Traditionally, OMGUS is a tell, but nowadays it's very much a meta-tell. People know so much about it, that they could honestly be standing on either side of the scum/townie spectrum and get away with it.
For instance, I accept that I am committing OMGUS on TheWetSheep because his question and his vote just doesn't feel right. If he isn't going to be around much due to being busy, why would he go through the process of throwing a vote onto me? It feels mechanical and it makes me wary. So this a scumtell? That is for you all to decide.
To turn the tables though, I noticed you asked a similar question to TheWetSheep, regarding his suspicions against me. Why is that?
Fair enough. I pretty much think it's worthless and can be used as a bad excuse to vote someone. (You OMGUSED him so time to vote you!)
You are correct- I did. It lets me see how serious your votes are. Plus, if it provokes a more severe reaction, that's more data to process. No, nothing of note came from either of you.
To the first, I tried to look for something on the Mafia Scum wiki, but I have ultimately failed. I've read it some where on that sight where it actually recommended considering lynching the Towniest player at LYLO. But instead of flashing that particular page heroically I shall have to make due with not being able to find it.
Don't take everything you read there literally. That, in particular, is bad advice.
Imp:
Toaster:Explain what you mean by NQT being a solid playmaker?@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?Assuming I can't pick myself, I'd go with one solid playmaker and two people I can't read. NQT might be interesting in the former position- he's willing to do the analytical work. For the latter, uh... someone I've never played with and can't read like The_Iqovian and then perhaps Tiruin.
NQT is willing to do deep analysis of the game. If said analysis can be trusted to be genuine, it's an asset. He takes things seriously enough to "coach" the rest of the game.
Shakerag: Did you submit a role that is going to fundamentally alter the game for everyone, much like you always try to do? (You don't have to actually answer that.)This seems to be a bit of an unusual question. Would you explain why you asked with that disclaimer, was it intended to warn the rest of us or did you have another purpose?
It's more of a joke question. Let me reference some past BYORs:
Spoiler: BYOR 8 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: BYOR 9 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: BYOR 10 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: BYOR 11 (click to show/hide)
See what I mean?
TolyK:
First thoughts: Why Do People Think I'm Good At This Game?!
Twitter Mafia. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77380.0)
Out of time to finish this post.
(Note to Toaster: Start at #144)
Post by: TheWetSheep on October 31, 2013, 06:26:03 pm
Now, as for you and why I dislike your vote. I can understand wanting to get out RVS, but I can hardly see how my post was role fishing.How was it rolefishing?
-If he answered "No" it would make him less of a NK target because he's likely to have a more boring role
-If he gave more information than a "yes or "no" it could reveal something else about his role.
Basically asking anything about anybody's role could be considered rolefishing. But that's not all that important to me, since it wasn't all that suspicious. I voted you for a reaction, and you jumped pretty high and dodged the question.
Quote
Given that I had innocent intentions when I wrote the question, it causes me to ponder what in particular made that one post stand out to you.So any attack on you when you're town merits an OMGUS-y vote because you know that you had innocent intentions?
TolyK:
Are you using this answer to cover yourself if people start accusing you?TolyK - I have not seen you around much, but as I understand it you are a bit of a veteran. How do you define your own gameplay?Well, it's unusual, since I don't like asking many questions, I don't like voting for people unless I'm pretty sure they're scum, and I try to pull shenanigans in role-heavy games that sometimes work. And I like to joke around sometimes. TLDR: pretty bad XD
NQT:
SheepNot necessarily, since it could just be that I'm a mediocre player. And I don't know how I play survivor or scum, since I've only ever been town.NQT:So I can understand from this that if you play mediocre and don't stand out in this game then you're implicitly claiming survivor? Or is that how you play scum as well?Sheep— how would you play the game if you were a Survivor?I would try as hard as possible to be mediocre and not stand out.
Post by: Cheeetar on October 31, 2013, 07:24:29 pm
@CheeetarI realise the worth of the wild mass questioning of day 1 in that it gives people something to actually talk about and helps clue the town in on who's scummy, but I feel that there're more than enough questions already being asked, and I'd feel more confident asking questions when I have something of substance to act upon. I've probably (?) not been asked before because people are trying to draw everybody into the conversation.
How'sabout you humor us then? What are you looking for on Day 1 that'll convince that it's time to start getting heavily involved?
There are a wide number of things I might twig at. I suppose I'll know it when I see it!
For now, I'm going to unvote TolyK and FoS birdy51- Upon reflection, I find it slightly hard to believe that the only reason you had for asking me about my role was idle curiosity, or a need to ask something. You could have posed any number of questions of me, but decided upon my role.
Tiruin, people have fairly high hopes for you this game, but you've yet to make a second post after your first. Do you have any thoughts on the answers to the questions you've asked?
Post by: The_Iqovian on October 31, 2013, 08:45:07 pm
The_Iqovian:Well with a ventriloquist in forum mafia, it might work as an ability, maybe something likeWith what you know of forum Mafia, could someone use a ventriloquist's role powers in this style of the game? If so, would you explain how those would work?The_Iqovian: Ignoring the lurker versions, which role(s) have you least enjoyed playing against?I once played with a ventriloquist in the game. Really, really annoying.
If not, would you answer the question again considering only roles that you believe could be played in a forum-based Mafia game?
(?-Use/Day) Ventriloquist's Doll [target]: Speak through the target. Target must copy you directly and cannot recant for [arbitrary time period].
I'm sure I've left that wide open for exploits, but you get the gist. If someone who knew how to balance a game worked on it, I'm sure something vaguely tolerable could work.
Birdy, Imp and Iqovian: If you were all one scum team and the one to the left of you (for Birdy this is Iqo) had a claim that was about to get proven wrong, what would you do?Assuming we're not absolutely reliant on Imp for our wincon, and it's Imp's fault (the claim isn't based on something Birdy or I provably did), join the masses trying to lynch him, and furiously work in scum chat to get them out of it.
The IqovianAt this stage of knowing absolutely nothing about the other players, any questions I pose will be horribly generic @everyones which will do nothing but display my own ineptitude.Well there's no one to shift any of the large amounts of blame I'm sure to accrue onto yet, and I can't read any of you. So there isn't that much to say, yet.So your way of forming reads in the face of low-content is to... sit back and answer the handful of questions people pose?
Or land myself in hot water, like with Cheeetar's rolefishing fiasco.
Iqovian: Do you trust common methods, or do you prefer to be innovative and unconventional in your scumhunting?If the method is tried and true, the scum have tried it and likely know counters. I try and be innovative, but people usually misinterpret that as acting scummy and I get lynched. Of course they interpret most things I do as scummy, so there's not much change there.
Post by: Hapah on October 31, 2013, 11:10:03 pm
Post by: Tiruin on November 01, 2013, 12:06:24 am
15 hour day, post tomorrow.^
Except the busy-ness was for 2 days unannounced because RL stuff >_<
I'm better now and will post in a few. ~3 Hours, at worst.
Post by: notquitethere on November 01, 2013, 05:07:27 am
Not necessarily, since it could just be that I'm a mediocre player. And I don't know how I play survivor or scum, since I've only ever been town.Covering all bases, huh? Let's entertain a little thought experiment here: how do you think you'd play if you were playing scum?
The Iqovian
At this stage of knowing absolutely nothing about the other players, any questions I pose will be horribly generic @everyones which will do nothing but display my own ineptitude.You seem very concerned with not making a slip. Why so cautious? Also, tell me about Cheetar's supposed rolefishing.
Or land myself in hot water, like with Cheeetar's rolefishing fiasco.
Post by: Imp on November 01, 2013, 06:53:51 am
Shakerag: Did you submit a role that is going to fundamentally alter the game for everyone, much like you always try to do? (You don't have to actually answer that.)This seems to be a bit of an unusual question. Would you explain why you asked with that disclaimer, was it intended to warn the rest of us or did you have another purpose?
It's more of a joke question. Let me reference some past BYORs:
...
See what I mean?
Yes. Thank you, I do feel warned.
Birdy:
To the first, I tried to look for something on the Mafia Scum wiki, but I have ultimately failed. I've read it some where on that sight where it actually recommended considering lynching the Towniest player at LYLO. But instead of flashing that particular page heroically I shall have to make due with not being able to find it.
I got curious and tried to search that up, I couldn't find it either through Mafia Scum wiki's search or Google. Thought I found a reference to it with a Google of "lynching towniest player lylo", but that was actually a game thread (http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=99197&start=80) for a "Weird Voting Mafia", and yeah, it had weird voting.
Checked it because Google quoted "So even if they weren't the towniest player during the day, the fact that the .... you want to see lynched), the towniest at the top (the person you want to have...", that quote seemed pretty garbled but I thought it might relate to what you found; nope, they had a crazy vote system and were trying to teach each other (even at lylo!) how to avoid accidentally lynching people that were seen as Town picks (the voting system required every player to vote for every player, order mattered). Glad that's not our game.
I did want to find the page you were talking about if I could, it sounds interesting, but even more I'd like to know how you'd use it. What advantage do you see in "flashing that particular page heroically" if you could?
What do you think of that voting strategy as you described it? Have you used it in play or do you plan to try it, at lylo or at any other point in play?
Birdy:Mostly the latter, actually. I prefer pressuring people on valid points to randomly voting and asking hypotheticals. Why am I suspicious for voting you on a scumtell instead of random-voting?To the second, why are you so concerned about that question in particular? Are you really worried that I might be role fishing, or are you simply looking for a prospective target?Cheeetar - Are you satisfied with your role?I love the smell of rolefishing in the morning. Why did you ask this?
Now, as for you and why I dislike your vote.
How serious do you perceive TheWetSheep's 'case' against you? How serious do you perceive his vote to be?
Nerjin:
So Nerjin, what precisely have you learned from everyone's responses. You planning on following any of them up?
I've learned that you didn't read my whole post.
What? I did read the whole post, you answered my prior question in your reply to Imp, that's fine.
notquitethere assumes that you meant 'You didn't see my answer to your question' when you say "I've learned that you didn't read my whole post.". Is that what you meant?
What is more important to you: 'To play in a way that satisfies you, regardless of if it satisfies your wincon', or 'To play in a way that satisfies your wincon, regardless of if it satisfies you'?
If you recieved a wincon you found disinteresting or distasteful, do you think you'd ignore it and just play the game towards some other goal that did motivate you?
notquitethere:
How do you intend to distinguish when a player who cannot (or will not) follow up on their questions is currently aligned as Town or Scum? Do you see such players becoming something of a policy lynch for you?
Cheeetar:
I wouldn't be able to link you to a specific play, no- I'd probably have trouble linking you to an aggressive play that helped town win as well, without going back and reading through games I've played. I'd say, yes, reactive play does help avoid lynching the wrong people. The good guys tend to be reactive- police wait for people to commit crimes before arresting them, and so on. Aggressively questioning people can make them implicate themselves, but so can analysing the posts they make, and even townies can say stupid things that seems suspicious if they feel under pressure.
Have you had much trouble in games, with a more 'reactive' style of play being taken as a more 'passive' one, and thus being seen as Scummy? If this was to happen in the future, how would you prefer to resolve the concern?
The_Iqovian:
Well with a ventriloquist in forum mafia, it might work as an ability, maybe something like
(?-Use/Day) Ventriloquist's Doll [target]: Speak through the target. Target must copy you directly and cannot recant for [arbitrary time period].
I'm sure I've left that wide open for exploits, but you get the gist. If someone who knew how to balance a game worked on it, I'm sure something vaguely tolerable could work.
Aha! That works well for me, thanks.
Assuming we're not absolutely reliant on Imp for our wincon, and it's Imp's fault (the claim isn't based on something Birdy or I provably did), join the masses trying to lynch him, and furiously work in scum chat to get them out of it.
Assuming I wasn't vital for our wincon, what would you do differently if you felt the claim was Birdy's fault? What would you do differently if you felt that it was your fault?
TheWetSheep:
When you find Scummy play, how concerned are you usually with trying to distinguish Scummy from Scum?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 01, 2013, 07:17:40 am
Cheeetar:I wouldn't be able to link you to a specific play, no- I'd probably have trouble linking you to an aggressive play that helped town win as well, without going back and reading through games I've played. I'd say, yes, reactive play does help avoid lynching the wrong people. The good guys tend to be reactive- police wait for people to commit crimes before arresting them, and so on. Aggressively questioning people can make them implicate themselves, but so can analysing the posts they make, and even townies can say stupid things that seems suspicious if they feel under pressure.
Have you had much trouble in games, with a more 'reactive' style of play being taken as a more 'passive' one, and thus being seen as Scummy? If this was to happen in the future, how would you prefer to resolve the concern?
I don't think I've had major problems with it in the past, no. I'd resolve the concern like I'm resolving it with you now- explaining what I'm doing. If that isn't sufficient, and you feel you'd ought to lynch me for what I see as a valid way of playing town, then I personally think you'd be being scummy by trying to find an excuse (any excuse) to lynch somebody.
Post by: notquitethere on November 01, 2013, 07:18:48 am
How do you intend to distinguish when a player who cannot (or will not) follow up on their questions is currently aligned as Town or Scum? Do you see such players becoming something of a policy lynch for you?How do you envision a player legitimately not being able to follow up on their questions? If someone is short on time it's fine for them to post less. But just going through the motions and asking questions just for the sake of it and not with any hunting-agenda is scummy. I wouldn't go so far as to say policy-lynch-worthy. Not everyone is an effective player and a lot of regular town will just go through the motions at the start of the game as they don't know what else to do. More, that negligence at following is a black mark and enough such marks are building blocks towards a case.
Post by: Imp on November 01, 2013, 08:40:15 am
ImpHow do you intend to distinguish when a player who cannot (or will not) follow up on their questions is currently aligned as Town or Scum? Do you see such players becoming something of a policy lynch for you?How do you envision a player legitimately not being able to follow up on their questions? If someone is short on time it's fine for them to post less. But just going through the motions and asking questions just for the sake of it and not with any hunting-agenda is scummy. I wouldn't go so far as to say policy-lynch-worthy. Not everyone is an effective player and a lot of regular town will just go through the motions at the start of the game as they don't know what else to do. More, that negligence at following is a black mark and enough such marks are building blocks towards a case.
This quote expresses really clearly what I'm trying to ask about.
I WON'T change my playstyle so drop it.Then wouldn't the proper response be to LYNCH YOU EVERY TIME UNTIL YOU LEARN BETTER OR STOP JOINING GAMES?
... That's right. I went there.
I'm in the middle of deciding what I think about this, what I think about someone who plays scummily and may do so regardless of their role each game.
I don't see someone being unable to follow up on their questions as legitimate play, but for some it could be legitimate error, akin to a newbie mistake regardless of if they're newbie or not. If a player consistently fails to create a plan of follow up (unless they get an answer they can recognize as suspicious) and has other weaknesses in their play, then that player's likely to be an early lynch over and over again each time they are tested for those criteria. That's great for when that player's Scum but if someone make the same choices for the same reasons when playing as Town - some people do that and seem likely to do that every game they play. Some are also intentionally resistant about trying to change their playstyle.
What are your thoughts on this, are such playstyles a strong lynch pick now for the same reasons they were a strong lynch pick in previous games, given that the playstyle has not changed and the player shows it regardless of their role?
Post by: TolyK on November 01, 2013, 09:10:18 am
Will hopefully post in a bit.
Post by: TolyK on November 01, 2013, 09:18:17 am
TolyK:Oh, that. Well, AFAIR that was just a clusterfuck at the end. XDFirst thoughts: Why Do People Think I'm Good At This Game?!
Twitter Mafia. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77380.0)
And you played better than me, esp. since you more or less coordinated the whole deal.
TolyK:Well, that was my plan. >.> [/joke]Are you using this answer to cover yourself if people start accusing you?TolyK - I have not seen you around much, but as I understand it you are a bit of a veteran. How do you define your own gameplay?Well, it's unusual, since I don't like asking many questions, I don't like voting for people unless I'm pretty sure they're scum, and I try to pull shenanigans in role-heavy games that sometimes work. And I like to joke around sometimes. TLDR: pretty bad XD
I'm basically saying my tendencies so that people don't get the wrong impression.
So, basically, bus the guy while trying to rebuff the accusation. Gotcha.Birdy, Imp and Iqovian: If you were all one scum team and the one to the left of you (for Birdy this is Iqo) had a claim that was about to get proven wrong, what would you do?Assuming we're not absolutely reliant on Imp for our wincon, and it's Imp's fault (the claim isn't based on something Birdy or I provably did), join the masses trying to lynch him, and furiously work in scum chat to get them out of it.
Post by: TolyK on November 01, 2013, 09:24:14 am
TolyK:Birdy, Imp and Iqovian: If you were all one scum team and the one to the left of you (for Birdy this is Iqo) had a claim that was about to get proven wrong, what would you do?I'd need to know more details to give you any real answer. How do I know his counterclaim is about to be proven wrong? what's the state of the game; how is each player interacting with the others, especially in terms of scumpicks or outward cooperation with each other? In general though, I'd be working to achieve my wincon, and I'd do so in the most effective way I could find based on everything I knew and could understand about the circumstances of the game.
TolyK:Birdy, Imp and Iqovian: If you were all one scum team and the one to the left of you (for Birdy this is Iqo) had a claim that was about to get proven wrong, what would you do?
I suppose you are a bit similar to me in some respects then! In the recent past I have had issues with voting willy-nilly. Now I'm just trying to use it to highlight who I trust the least. Shenanigans are always fun though!
Now, as per your question. I tend to see myself as a person who busses aggressively when pressed. If Iqovian makes digs himself a pit, it's his job to get out of it. In a situation where I know that my partner just dug his own grave with a potentially disastrous claim, I have no issue with calling him out on it. If he's going to die, I may as well make myself look pretty.
However, I may also try to leave an out or a counter against me. While I wear a combative face against them , I'm also just as likely to be plotting for some kind of method that they might save themselves with in the scum chat.
Birdy, Imp and Iqovian: If you were all one scum team and the one to the left of you (for Birdy this is Iqo) had a claim that was about to get proven wrong, what would you do?Assuming we're not absolutely reliant on Imp for our wincon, and it's Imp's fault (the claim isn't based on something Birdy or I provably did), join the masses trying to lynch him, and furiously work in scum chat to get them out of it.
Basically, Iqovian and Birdy would bus, while Imp seems unsure. Will report some more later.
Post by: notquitethere on November 01, 2013, 09:28:18 am
This quote expresses really clearly what I'm trying to ask about.Yeah, that's why I'm not in favour of policy lynches: some players struggle to present themselves and unfortunately a lot of them (like Diakron you quoted) just stop playing. The trouble is, it's pretty lousy for everyone else if they can't get a decent read on person because that person consistently plays bad. It's bad for them, and it's bad for their team mates. One of the reasons town loses the BMs so much is because the players are even more clueless than normal and scum, even fairly incompetent scum, can use this to their advantage. I'm pretty clean on encouraging players to play better rather than just sitting back and catching them out on easy mistakes. If they still play scummily, then even if that's their whole meta, then they've got to recognise that they're letting themselves get lynched. What do you think should be done about players that consistently play scummily regardless of their role?I WON'T change my playstyle so drop it.Then wouldn't the proper response be to LYNCH YOU EVERY TIME UNTIL YOU LEARN BETTER OR STOP JOINING GAMES?
... That's right. I went there.
I'm in the middle of deciding what I think about this, what I think about someone who plays scummily and may do so regardless of their role each game.
I don't see someone being unable to follow up on their questions as legitimate play, but for some it could be legitimate error, akin to a newbie mistake regardless of if they're newbie or not. If a player consistently fails to create a plan of follow up (unless they get an answer they can recognize as suspicious) and has other weaknesses in their play, then that player's likely to be an early lynch over and over again each time they are tested for those criteria. That's great for when that player's Scum but if someone make the same choices for the same reasons when playing as Town - some people do that and seem likely to do that every game they play. Some are also intentionally resistant about trying to change their playstyle.
What are your thoughts on this, are such playstyles a strong lynch pick now for the same reasons they were a strong lynch pick in previous games, given that the playstyle has not changed and the player shows it regardless of their role?
Also, it strikes me that if someone consistently shows scum-tells when they're playing town, then maybe we should be rethinking what we consider scum-tells.
TolyK
Basically, Iqovian and Birdy would bus, while Imp seems unsure. Will report some more later.Curious. I'd be interested in hearing what you'd conclude from that.
Post by: Nerjin on November 01, 2013, 10:20:02 am
Spoiler: @Birdy51[/spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Cheetar (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Deathsword (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Hapah (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Imp (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Nerjin (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @NQT (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Shakerag (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Iqovian (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @TheWetSheep (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Tiruin (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Toaster (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @TolyK (click to show/hide)
For those of you who didn’t read the whole thing I voted The Iqovian see his spoiler for reasons.
Birdy51 is my secondary scum pick. Again, go check that spoiler.
Post by: notquitethere on November 01, 2013, 11:05:33 am
I’m pretty happy with your play so far. Nothing sticks out. Though on an off-note, I’m beginning to think that I have you confused with someone else because you don’t play like I remember. Hm…Oh?! I think my play is always constantly evolving. I think I play better now than I did before but I still make plenty of mistakes. When I first started playing chess against people that could play, I must have lost my first twenty games but my play improved and though I'm not amazing at chess, I'm way better at it than I would have been if I didn't lose so many games and try to figure out each time where I went wrong. Well, mafia is the same. I still make mistakes and, just like in chess, sometimes they're atavistic mistakes that I really should have gone beyond, but each game I play I get closer to the ideal meta-game goal of mistake-free play.
In chess I play aggressively and am fond of unexpected gambits and sacrifices. In mafia, I am fond of logical analysis. In my very first BM here that you ran you can see I tried to reason logically (and, as it happened, correctly) about what the scum team would be up to, with the same open admittance that I might be mistaken:
Unless this is a very cunning double bluff, I think we have good reason to suppose that +!!scientist!!+ isn't in fact scum, because if they were, their partner in crime would be telling them to vote for Captain Ford to cause a nolynch. Unless their partner is just as clueless...
My play has improved but I'm still questing from the same basic perspective.
I do have a question: Who are your top two scum-picks right now?So, The Iqovian is the player I'm voting for. They're being shifty and passive. It could just be weird new-player stuff, but the pressure from the vote hasn't prompted them to make any clarification or increased their scumhunting, so they've got my vote.
Second most scummy? Deathsword has only made one real post and there he just answers a few questions and fires off a few questions. Easy day 1 stuff. I'd like to hear more from him.
It's hard to say though— there's a whole bunch of players that have only made one or two substantial posts. I'm swiftly coming to the firm conclusion that it's a lot easier to spot town players than scum: good town play in a way that it is hard for scum to emulate because their play flows from genuine suspicion; whereas time-stretched, inexperienced or disengaged town players will look like scum.
I think Cheetar, Imp, TolyK and you are the most engaged in the game and this is usually a good proxy for town. I found Cheetar a bit too passive at the beginning but he's done a fairly good job of explaining where he's coming from.
Post by: TolyK on November 01, 2013, 02:09:56 pm
TolyKSee below.Basically, Iqovian and Birdy would bus, while Imp seems unsure. Will report some more later.Curious. I'd be interested in hearing what you'd conclude from that.
I think Cheetar, Imp, TolyK and you are the most engaged in the game and this is usually a good proxy for town. I found Cheetar a bit too passive at the beginning but he's done a fairly good job of explaining where he's coming from....
I'm usually even more wanting to play the game as scum, though, since that's rarer. So I don't quite agree with your logic.
@TolyKSee below.
Well you’ve not posted much but are apparently quite busy. Fair enough, however when you HAVE posted what you’ve said has amounted to questioning the people you don’t know. Next time you post I hope you have more than active-lurking to show for it.
Who do you see as scummiest and why?
Nerjin:What's funny is that these are exactly the guys I'm looking at right now.@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?birdy51, The_Iqovian, and Imp for the first and Toaster for the second.
Now, as for you and why I dislike your vote. I can understand wanting to get out RVS, but I can hardly see how my post was role fishing. Given that I had innocent intentions when I wrote the question, it causes me to ponder what in particular made that one post stand out to you.You can still do scummy stuff if you have innocent intentions. :P
I don't hear much about passivity finding Scum. Could you offer some links to help me find where passive play has been used effectively to assist and ensure Town wins?This is really painting yourself as town. As in, this is like saying "I'm town", except "Help me work for the town's cause".
It makes you look as if you're trying to make yourself look like a fluffy bunny that's asking for help.
Don't you agree?
*post*
*other post*Neat. There's something here, but I don't have the time to look at it right now. Ping me later in case I forget.
You seem pretty concerned with not being in hot water. I understand you, however Cheeetar didn't really have anything on you, so it's not really hot water, is it?The IqovianAt this stage of knowing absolutely nothing about the other players, any questions I pose will be horribly generic @everyones which will do nothing but display my own ineptitude.Well there's no one to shift any of the large amounts of blame I'm sure to accrue onto yet, and I can't read any of you. So there isn't that much to say, yet.So your way of forming reads in the face of low-content is to... sit back and answer the handful of questions people pose?
Or land myself in hot water, like with Cheeetar's rolefishing fiasco.
Scummy? A bit. But they all have something in common, don't they?
Post by: Shakerag on November 01, 2013, 03:17:00 pm
Shakerag:Three people who I don't know very well and might have difficulty getting reads on (although, in hindsight after responding to Nerjin, I feel like it should be something like Hapah, NQT, and TWS/Tiruin). Therefore it would be best if I could have them confirmed town. Toaster is the most likely and experienced here to play a strong scum game.Nerjin:What reasons for those selections?@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devestating as scum?birdy51, The_Iqovian, and Imp for the first and Toaster for the second.
Deathsword:Trying to figure out how to avoid catching a redirect, Imp?What do you look for when deciding where to place a redirect?Deathsword: Pretend your only night-useable ability allowed you to choose to either block someone (both from receiving or taking actions) or to redirect someone (again, that redirection applies both to actions targeting that player, and to actions that player tries to make). Which would you probably use more often, and why?Redirect. I really like redirects and it can, if used right or with enough luck, destroy the plans of scum or third party.
Nerjin:
I hate this question/request. It always feels so lazy.Spoiler: @Shakerag (click to show/hide)
birdy51 - upbeat? - seems sharp - possibly town
Cheeetar - poking on lurkers (TolyK) - passive - possibly scum
Deathsword - no strong read
Hapah - no strong read
Imp - inquisitive - maybe a bit cautious - neutral
Nerjin - feels like he's fishing for someone to jump on with asking everyone who they think is scummy - neutral to light scummy
notquitethere - no strong read
The_Iqovian - making appeals to excuse poor/scummy plays - newbie to slightly scummy
TheWetSheep - no strong read
Tiruin - no strong read
Toaster - no strong read
TolyK - setting up self-meta to get away with lurking - commenting on another SK or cult - possibly scum
TolyK:
Worried about another SK? Worried about a cult? Worried about something ruining your plans? Hi scum.TolyK— you've played a lot of role heavy games right? Are there any really common things we should be looking out for?Well, considering it's a WUBA game, there's likely "another" SK, since he modkilled one instantly, or a cult.
Common things? Don't say everything you know instantly, and always always always check facts with your facts.
And there's always gonna be this crazy jig that ruins a lot of stuff in BYOR's. See: BYO Cards, where my Auto ability gave me a day to myself.
Toaster:
No, nothing of note came from either of you.Why say this? It feels like you're closing off the potential for one of them to be nervous about your conclusion.
Post by: TheWetSheep on November 01, 2013, 04:10:52 pm
For now, I'm going to unvote TolyK and FoS birdy51- Upon reflection, I find it slightly hard to believe that the only reason you had for asking me about my role was idle curiosity, or a need to ask something. You could have posed any number of questions of me, but decided upon my role.If you're unvoting TolyK, why are you only FoSing Birdy? Shouldn't you be using your vote to pressure? Are you worried about being seen as bandwagoning? And if the purpose of your FoS is pressure, why aren't you asking him any questions?
NQT:
SheepMaybe more cautiously? Maybe? I really don't know; I'd try to play as close as possible to how I play town.Not necessarily, since it could just be that I'm a mediocre player. And I don't know how I play survivor or scum, since I've only ever been town.Covering all bases, huh? Let's entertain a little thought experiment here: how do you think you'd play if you were playing scum?
Imp:
TheWetSheep:Very. I think a lot of people make the mistake of thinking that if people make such and such a blunder then they must be scum, as opposed to trying to see what scum or town would do in a certain circumstance. The latter is more useful, since it actually helps find scum, because anybody can make a scumslip regardless of alignment.
When you find Scummy play, how concerned are you usually with trying to distinguish Scummy from Scum?
Just a note, I'll be unable to post over the weekend.
Post by: birdy51 on November 01, 2013, 04:15:58 pm
TheWetSheep:
Birdy:Now, as for you and why I dislike your vote. I can understand wanting to get out RVS, but I can hardly see how my post was role fishing.How was it rolefishing?
-If he answered "No" it would make him less of a NK target because he's likely to have a more boring role
-If he gave more information than a "yes or "no" it could reveal something else about his role.
Basically asking anything about anybody's role could be considered rolefishing. But that's not all that important to me, since it wasn't all that suspicious. I voted you for a reaction, and you jumped pretty high and dodged the question.QuoteGiven that I had innocent intentions when I wrote the question, it causes me to ponder what in particular made that one post stand out to you.So any attack on you when you're town merits an OMGUS-y vote because you know that you had innocent intentions?
Now you are become a tad unreasonable.
- If he had answered "no", it would have been a rather off-color gesture against Wuba. Regardless of the performance, the audience claps, does it not? The same is with these roles. I would have been surprised by any answer, except for yes. To say "no" is to not clap, and instead hiss at the performers like a cat.
- Here's another sticking point. The word "could" is rather open. However the fact of the matter is, I wasn't asking to him to reveal any vital elements about his role, or even whether his role was a person, place, or thing.
Secondly, no. I dodged the question because I actively mistrust both your question and your intentions. I believe I have right to question arguments made against me. Now, I realize that I did not ask this directly, but shall now ask it with bolded emphasis. What made my post stand out to you?
Imp:
Birdy:To the first, I tried to look for something on the Mafia Scum wiki, but I have ultimately failed. I've read it some where on that sight where it actually recommended considering lynching the Towniest player at LYLO. But instead of flashing that particular page heroically I shall have to make due with not being able to find it.
I got curious and tried to search that up, I couldn't find it either through Mafia Scum wiki's search or Google. Thought I found a reference to it with a Google of "lynching towniest player lylo", but that was actually a game thread (http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=99197&start=80) for a "Weird Voting Mafia", and yeah, it had weird voting.
Checked it because Google quoted "So even if they weren't the towniest player during the day, the fact that the .... you want to see lynched), the towniest at the top (the person you want to have...", that quote seemed pretty garbled but I thought it might relate to what you found; nope, they had a crazy vote system and were trying to teach each other (even at lylo!) how to avoid accidentally lynching people that were seen as Town picks (the voting system required every player to vote for every player, order mattered). Glad that's not our game.
I did want to find the page you were talking about if I could, it sounds interesting, but even more I'd like to know how you'd use it. What advantage do you see in "flashing that particular page heroically" if you could?
What do you think of that voting strategy as you described it? Have you used it in play or do you plan to try it, at lylo or at any other point in play?
TheWetSheep:Birdy:Mostly the latter, actually. I prefer pressuring people on valid points to randomly voting and asking hypotheticals. Why am I suspicious for voting you on a scumtell instead of random-voting?To the second, why are you so concerned about that question in particular? Are you really worried that I might be role fishing, or are you simply looking for a prospective target?Cheeetar - Are you satisfied with your role?I love the smell of rolefishing in the morning. Why did you ask this?Now, as for you and why I dislike your vote.
How serious do you perceive TheWetSheep's 'case' against you? How serious do you perceive his vote to be?
The devil's advocates needs to win the debate sometimes! There are occasions where a somewhat seedy person might simply be a lazy townie, and occasions where a righteous townie are complete under scum buckets underneath the skin. Perceived authority can be rather tricky and deceptive.
Now, I have yet to use this strategy once. I've only been at LYLO once, and that was a scumbucket. If I am still alive at LYLO in this game however, I will try to look at both sides of the arguments with an even eye. This, barring any unusual shenanigans. Given that this is a BYOR, I think that this game will already be abounding in Shenanigans, and we can rest assured the LYLO will be rather interesting.
Now, as to my phrase of "waving it heroically", I like winning debates and arguments. It's certainly not something I would have held over anyone's head, but rather a sort of cherished "AHA!" moment.
Finally, I am taking TheWetSheep's argument seriously, because I find it lacking under pressure. While my numerous gaffes are both amusing and potentially deadly to myself, I don't think his base argument holds much water. He's assuming that I have overreacted. On the flipside of the coin, I think his question and vote was overreacting to the RVS question I asked Cheeetar.
His reaction is what caused me to believe he could be scum. To use his own words,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I didn't think his point was valid in the first place, especially now that he himself has gone against it. TheWetSheep is establishing himself as valid, but he skips the part where he admits that his both his question and his vote were weak.
Hrmm... Regardless my point is getting convoluted. When I get some time, I'll try to arrange both off our arguments in some kind of meaningful context as opposed this gobbeldy gook mess of disconnected thoughts and words.
Cheeetar:
@CheeetarI realise the worth of the wild mass questioning of day 1 in that it gives people something to actually talk about and helps clue the town in on who's scummy, but I feel that there're more than enough questions already being asked, and I'd feel more confident asking questions when I have something of substance to act upon. I've probably (?) not been asked before because people are trying to draw everybody into the conversation.
How'sabout you humor us then? What are you looking for on Day 1 that'll convince that it's time to start getting heavily involved?
There are a wide number of things I might twig at. I suppose I'll know it when I see it!
For now, I'm going to unvote TolyK and FoS birdy51- Upon reflection, I find it slightly hard to believe that the only reason you had for asking me about my role was idle curiosity, or a need to ask something. You could have posed any number of questions of me, but decided upon my role.
A counter-question. How well do you know me, or what kind of roles I enjoy to play?
TolyK:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm not quite following you with this one… Would you care to expound why you clump us all together?
Post by: TheWetSheep on November 01, 2013, 05:43:49 pm
- If he had answered "no", it would have been a rather off-color gesture against Wuba. Regardless of the performance, the audience claps, does it not? The same is with these roles. I would have been surprised by any answer, except for yes. To say "no" is to not clap, and instead hiss at the performers like a cat.This does not make my point invalid.
Quote
- Here's another sticking point. The word "could" is rather open. However the fact of the matter is, I wasn't asking to him to reveal any vital elements about his role, or even whether his role was a person, place, or thing.No, but he might have. I'm assuming that if you were rolefishing you would be a little less blatant then "Cheeetar, tell me exactly what your role does".
Quote
Secondly, no. I dodged the question because I actively mistrust both your question and your intentions. I believe I have right to question arguments made against me. Now, I realize that I did not ask this directly, but shall now ask it with bolded emphasis. What made my post stand out to you?I was scumhunting. What made you mistrust my intentions?
To your question, it was the most valid thing I could pressure somebody on at that time. I voted you not because I thought that your rolefishing made you scum, but because I wanted your reaction to an accusation and not a RVS question. That's how you leave RVS. (This also addresses this:
Quote
I didn't think his point was valid in the first place, especially now that he himself has gone against it. TheWetSheep is establishing himself as valid, but he skips the part where he admits that his both his question and his vote were weak.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 01, 2013, 07:48:47 pm
Spoiler: @Cheetar (click to show/hide)
It's much easier to be active on Day 2 because there's more to talk about - the results of the lynching Day 1 (if it was scum, who they seemed to be teaming up with or avoiding pressuring at all), the results of the nights actions, any information you yourself may have gotten that's usable. Right now? I suspect you, Nerjin.
Spoiler: @Iqovian (click to show/hide)
This is an incredibly suspicious post. Iqovian hasn't posted as much as other people and that is your only reason to vote for him, disregarding his joke completely flying over your head. There are also other people who you've called out in your post for not posting as much, some of whom have posted even lesss but you seem much less concerned about it- is Iqovian just an easier target, given that he's newer to this style of Mafia than everybody else?
Spoiler: @Imp (click to show/hide)Spoiler: @TheWetSheep (click to show/hide)Spoiler: @Toaster (click to show/hide)Spoiler: @TolyK (click to show/hide)Spoiler: @Hapah (click to show/hide)Spoiler: @NQT (click to show/hide)
Why are you so concerned with who everybody else thinks is scum? Shouldn't you be focusing on your own investigation instead of finding out who the easiest person to bandwagon on is?
I think Cheetar, Imp, TolyK and you are the most engaged in the game and this is usually a good proxy for town.
I heavily disagree- I wouldn't say scum are usually hyper active, but it's definitely not uncommon.
Cheeetar:
How well do you know me, or what kind of roles I enjoy to play?
I wouldn't put any degree of confidence in how well I know you. What kind of roles do you enjoy playing - why did you ask me this question?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 01, 2013, 07:50:41 pm
Cheeetar:For now, I'm going to unvote TolyK and FoS birdy51- Upon reflection, I find it slightly hard to believe that the only reason you had for asking me about my role was idle curiosity, or a need to ask something. You could have posed any number of questions of me, but decided upon my role.If you're unvoting TolyK, why are you only FoSing Birdy? Shouldn't you be using your vote to pressure? Are you worried about being seen as bandwagoning? And if the purpose of your FoS is pressure, why aren't you asking him any questions?
He made a suspicious move, but I don't think there are any followup questions I can ask (he was curious! This happens sometimes, and I don't think he can explain it any better than that) and I'm not comfortable voting for him just because of that.
Post by: birdy51 on November 01, 2013, 10:35:05 pm
-snip-Blegh... I think we will just keep going round and round on this one, unless we organize our arguments in a meaningful. I've already answered your question regarding the validity of your accusation of role fishing, and that it doesn't hold water.
You can make an accusation against me, but if it's weak you better as hell, you'd best understand that I will press you on it. To defend one selves honor is just as important as infiltrating and finding the traitorous scum who would kill us in the night. Further, when one strikes lazily with a sword in the daylight, you don't stand there and let it cut you, like a coward might. Nay, you parry and strike a stinging blow in return!
So! If you would have me to say it once more, I shall state once more why I find your accusation against me is as floppy as a fish but we've reached the point where this matter has gotten terribly redundant. To be perfectly honest, my feelings as to your scumminess has diminished somewhat.
The fact that you would not allow someone (Cheeetar) to bandwagon me while you actively attempt to prove a point against me is admirable. If I were scum in your position, I would have undoubtedly said nothing and allow him to think whatever he wills of you. Thus, at this point, I'm willing to believe have we may have simply allowed our wires to get crossed. unvote
You may continue to go forward with your case against me, and I will continue with the traditional dialogue that I have been engaging in thus far if you wish. However, I no longer believe that your intentions are misaligned. Besides… Arguably I did jump a little. :{
Cheeetar
Cheeetar:
How well do you know me, or what kind of roles I enjoy to play?
I wouldn't put any degree of confidence in how well I know you. What kind of roles do you enjoy playing - why did you ask me this question?
It was Socratic question. As you might have also guessed, I don't have the slightest clue on God's green earth what roles you might enjoy, and I know even less about you as a person. Thus, how could I have possibly gleaned what kind of role you have from such a basic question?
Now, as to your second question,that could be considered role fishing. Still… I feel like answering this one anyways.
I like the trickster archetype. Characters with a gimmick or entertaining sub -plot. Something that makes them stand out in the long run. I enjoy a roles that embody that same kind of spirit.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Hapah on November 01, 2013, 11:30:49 pm
Quote from: Imp
I'm not sure that either usually knows their target's alignment; definitely they sometimes do not. For the purpose of answering these questions, assume neither brother nor guardian angel would know their target's alignment.Brother for sure, then. Looks like it'd be easier, unless the angel was really powered up to compensate for the tougher wincon.
Quote from: NQT
Uh— there's 12 other players. There's probably, what, three scum? So if you're not scum (an open question at this stage) then you've got only a 1/4 chance of catching scum in the first random person you start querying. I think you should definitely press people that are jumpy but you can press more than one person at a time.If that one person continues to act suspicious, then they will continue to be questioned. And sure, you can question multiple people, but I normally focus on one (sometimes two) that seem to be acting funny. There will still be questions of opportunity at others if they say something unusual or that I don't understand, but I tend to sit on one person until I'm satisfied.
Quote from: Nerjin
Though I’m curious if you still find Toaster as the biggest scum possibility. Granted you never seemed to but yet your vote is there and I want to know what you think right now.No, I suppose not. It was more an RVS question than anything, I thought his question a little odd. I don't have any good suspicions at the moment; I'm barely finding time to pop in and answer questions asked of me. I'm off Sunday and Monday (HALLELUJAH!), so expect actual posts and a good read of the thread then.
Unvote.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 01, 2013, 11:37:04 pm
CheeetarI wouldn't put any degree of confidence in how well I know you. What kind of roles do you enjoy playing - why did you ask me this question?
It was Socratic question. As you might have also guessed, I don't have the slightest clue on God's green earth what roles you might enjoy, and I know even less about you as a person. Thus, how could I have possibly gleaned what kind of role you have from such a basic question?
Zorro woulda been cool. You could've assumed that people like playing roles that are more powerful, or just looked at the games I'd had where I'd seemingly enjoyed myself the most and the roles I had in them.
Post by: TolyK on November 02, 2013, 05:11:48 am
TolyK:I'm not quite sure (pun not intended... >.>) how you came to that conclusion. I was asked a question for "really common things" to look out for, so I answered to my knowledge. Even if I were scum, I don't think I would have any overarching plans on D1, and I'd be more worried about a cop or something ruining my plans.Worried about another SK? Worried about a cult? Worried about something ruining your plans? Hi scum.TolyK— you've played a lot of role heavy games right? Are there any really common things we should be looking out for?Well, considering it's a WUBA game, there's likely "another" SK, since he modkilled one instantly, or a cult.
Common things? Don't say everything you know instantly, and always always always check facts with your facts.
And there's always gonna be this crazy jig that ruins a lot of stuff in BYOR's. See: BYO Cards, where my Auto ability gave me a day to myself.
But the main thing is, does my answering that way mean that I'm worried about something?
TolyK:You're all basically doing stuff I did when I was newer - going with the "I'm innocent, so why is what I say scummy?", "Lets help the town", "Oh crap someone said something about me it must be serious" (in order). Thus, I'm fairly sure you're all town, because I haven't found anything damning your case yet. However, I'll be looking for the time being.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm not quite following you with this one… Would you care to expound why you clump us all together?
Think of this as me testing you as a group.
Post by: Imp on November 02, 2013, 05:31:38 am
Spoiler: TolyK has been putting on a show for us! (click to show/hide)
I think Cheetar, Imp, TolyK and you are the most engaged in the game and this is usually a good proxy for town. I found Cheetar a bit too passive at the beginning but he's done a fairly good job of explaining where he's coming from....
I'm usually even more wanting to play the game as scum, though, since that's rarer. So I don't quite agree with your logic.
Oh, but how you engage, would you say that's the same? How can you have so much energy to put into building intricate riddles through multiple players' posts and keep up your Scumhunting too? Oh, right. You're playing your own game instead of Scumhunting. I see it now, thanks!
I think Cheetar, Imp, TolyK and you are the most engaged in the game and this is usually a good proxy for town. I found Cheetar a bit too passive at the beginning but he's done a fairly good job of explaining where he's coming from....
I'm usually even more wanting to play the game as scum, though, since that's rarer. So I don't quite agree with your logic.
Oh, but how you engage, would you say that's the same? How can you have so much energy to put into building intricate riddles through multiple players' posts and keep up your Scumhunting too? Oh, right. You're playing your own game instead of Scumhunting. I see it now, thanks!
Now, as for you and why I dislike your vote. I can understand wanting to get out RVS, but I can hardly see how my post was role fishing. Given that I had innocent intentions when I wrote the question, it causes me to ponder what in particular made that one post stand out to you.You can still do scummy stuff if you have innocent intentions. :P
And innocent seeming, time-wasty stuff when you have Scummy intentions, you mean as well, so tongue-sticking-outly?
Nope. Sincere question, I meant every word I said. Happens I'm a newbie, this is my third game. The first two haven't ended yet; when you look at my ears that's not length you see; they're still wet.I don't hear much about passivity finding Scum. Could you offer some links to help me find where passive play has been used effectively to assist and ensure Town wins?This is really painting yourself as town. As in, this is like saying "I'm town", except "Help me work for the town's cause".
It makes you look as if you're trying to make yourself look like a fluffy bunny that's asking for help.
Don't you agree?
None the less, if I am a rabbit you role fisher, you'd best consider me the Monty Python version, at least to Scum like yourself. Beware the cute ones (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KillerRabbit).
You on the other hand. Considering how you play games, are you trying to clue us in to having picked Elmer Fudd as your role choice, in a "Shhh. Be vewy vewy quiet, I'm hunting wabbits" sort of way?
Newp. "Oh, you dubbuh-cwossing wabbit! You tweachewous miscweant!" is all I have to say to your Scummy side.
*post**other post*Neat. There's something here, but I don't have the time to look at it right now. Ping me later in case I forget.
Ping. Ping. Have you had enough pings yet? Have you had enough of wasting time yet, both yours and ours?
Post by: Imp on November 02, 2013, 06:28:33 am
And is Griffinpup still tentatively confirmed? He's not logged into the forum in over two weeks again.I don't know...
Overall, I'm not against starting without him. He knows I don't take kindly to people lurking.
How'd you get brave enough to lurk so much?
Nerjin:
But I have a question for you: Who do you think is the scum-team right now?
Team? Oh my. I tried that. I looked deep into the game, my very first game, and I saw super scummy one and then I saw even wow so much scummier two. BMs, they're open set ups. I knew we only had two Scum. So then I looked for how they interacted. And I even saw stuff that suggested that they were indeed a Scum team working together.
It was about a month ago. Thank the gods I've learned better since then. The game's still ongoing, but both my first picks are dead, so I assume it's fine for me to say that I was wrong about both because nothing I'm saying is supposition, everything is part of open record. One of my 'identified Scumteam' got lynched, the other night killed (and was the jailkeeper); both were Town. I wasn't wrong about their being Scummy, but I was wrong about almost every single thing I thought it meant.
I have no thoughts towards a Scum team now, at this point I'm not looking for teams; at this point I consider myself incompetent to find teams, especially on D1. For now, I'm perfectly happy to find anti-Town, aka Scummy, and sublimely happy to attempt to figure out if that Scumminess means actually anti-Townness versus all the other things it might mean.
Deathsword:Trying to figure out how to avoid catching a redirect, Imp?What do you look for when deciding where to place a redirect?Deathsword: Pretend your only night-useable ability allowed you to choose to either block someone (both from receiving or taking actions) or to redirect someone (again, that redirection applies both to actions targeting that player, and to actions that player tries to make). Which would you probably use more often, and why?Redirect. I really like redirects and it can, if used right or with enough luck, destroy the plans of scum or third party.
Nope. Please hold your follow up until Deathsword has either answered or suffered some fate that makes it clear he won't be answering? I might also need some time for my own follow up. I'll be fast to indicate this (by following up, or by letting you know I'm ready) if that's the case or not.
Birdy:
Finally, I am taking TheWetSheep's argument seriously, because I find it lacking under pressure.
I didn't think his point was valid in the first place, especially now that he himself has gone against it. TheWetSheep is establishing himself as valid, but he skips the part where he admits that his both his question and his vote were weak.
I believe I see what you're talking about.
When you say that you're taking his argument seriously (but don't think his point was valid in the first place and note that he's countered it himself), do you mean that you are going to be taking your reaction to his argument seriously, or his actual argument seriously?
Hrmm... Regardless my point is getting convoluted. When I get some time, I'll try to arrange both off our arguments in some kind of meaningful context as opposed this gobbeldy gook mess of disconnected thoughts and words.
That's probably helpful, at least overall, but I don't mind trying to follow your 'natural style'. If I'm capable of following your words, I won't mind your letting me peer deeply into your perspective and see things from your point of view. Course, if that perspective looks Scummy, that's going to get some attention so it can be cleared up. Being confusing can be risky though - so play as you see fit. I'll try to follow however you play.
Post by: Vector on November 02, 2013, 01:35:11 pm
Post by: Toaster on November 02, 2013, 02:04:56 pm
NQT:
ToasterNope. I don't expect anyone who asks such broad-spectrum questions to do much following up at all. This applies to individual questions to everyone like you did as well. Aren't you doing that just to defeat your own tell?I follow up on my questions, and I don't see how I could 'defeat' my own tell as if I tried to attack everyone for bogus reasons it'd be pretty obvious. Or were you referring to the post-count thing? Do you have a problem with engaging everyone in conversation? I know there are only so many hours in the day...
I was referring more to the "how many people do you engage" tell of yours. If you can actually follow up and get real value out of your questions, then more power to you. Typically the majority of them go nowhere and the lack of pressure they generate means they have no value.
Cheeetar:
CheeetarStandard tells I suppose. Rolefishing, inconsistent arguments, defending scummy players, attacking and voting for players for no reason (excepting day 1 stuff designed to draw a reaction).I see, so when do you think the drawing-a-reaction phase ends?
I'd say when people start earnestly voting for people because they believe they've found a scum player.
Do you think the game can go back to that phase?
For now, I'm going to unvote TolyK and FoS birdy51- Upon reflection, I find it slightly hard to believe that the only reason you had for asking me about my role was idle curiosity, or a need to ask something. You could have posed any number of questions of me, but decided upon my role.
Nerjin:
@NQTNerjin@Everyone: Which three players would you most like to be confirmed town and which player would you think is most devastating as scum?What's your answer to the very same question?
I won't answer that question[/joke]
It's not really a joke if you still don't answer the question, right?
Imp:
I got curious and tried to search that up, I couldn't find it either through Mafia Scum wiki's search or Google. Thought I found a reference to it with a Google of "lynching towniest player lylo", but that was actually a game thread (http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=99197&start=80) for a "Weird Voting Mafia", and yeah, it had weird voting.
Checked it because Google quoted "So even if they weren't the towniest player during the day, the fact that the .... you want to see lynched), the towniest at the top (the person you want to have...", that quote seemed pretty garbled but I thought it might relate to what you found; nope, they had a crazy vote system and were trying to teach each other (even at lylo!) how to avoid accidentally lynching people that were seen as Town picks (the voting system required every player to vote for every player, order mattered). Glad that's not our game.
I did want to find the page you were talking about if I could, it sounds interesting, but even more I'd like to know how you'd use it. What advantage do you see in "flashing that particular page heroically" if you could?
What you're looking for is the Too Townie (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Too_Townie) fallacy. It doesn't fly.
Your vote here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4734875#msg4734875)... I don't get it. The theatrics are nice, but they lack a conclusion.
Shakerag:
Toaster:No, nothing of note came from either of you.Why say this? It feels like you're closing off the potential for one of them to be nervous about your conclusion.
Because I figured someone would ask me what I got about that. I'm not huge on headgames like that (unless it's a lot more direct.)
Post by: TolyK on November 02, 2013, 03:21:37 pm
Blah blah, getting behind.This.
TolyK:Possibly, but I hope not.
TolyK has been putting on a show for us!
...
To hide that he's doing absolutely nothing but wasting his time and ours.
Quote from: Imp
I... don't quite understand the first question.I think Cheetar, Imp, TolyK and you are the most engaged in the game and this is usually a good proxy for town. I found Cheetar a bit too passive at the beginning but he's done a fairly good job of explaining where he's coming from....
I'm usually even more wanting to play the game as scum, though, since that's rarer. So I don't quite agree with your logic.
Oh, but how you engage, would you say that's the same? How can you have so much energy to put into building intricate riddles through multiple players' posts and keep up your Scumhunting too? Oh, right. You're playing your own game instead of Scumhunting. I see it now, thanks!
Quote from: Imp
Not what I had in mind, no.Now, as for you and why I dislike your vote. I can understand wanting to get out RVS, but I can hardly see how my post was role fishing. Given that I had innocent intentions when I wrote the question, it causes me to ponder what in particular made that one post stand out to you.You can still do scummy stuff if you have innocent intentions. :P
And innocent seeming, time-wasty stuff when you have Scummy intentions, you mean as well, so tongue-sticking-outly?
Quote from: Imp
Role fishing? Seriously? You are trying so hard to "prove my guilt" that you are trying to tack everything even slightly related to it?Nope. Sincere question, I meant every word I said. Happens I'm a newbie, this is my third game. The first two haven't ended yet; when you look at my ears that's not length you see; they're still wet.I don't hear much about passivity finding Scum. Could you offer some links to help me find where passive play has been used effectively to assist and ensure Town wins?This is really painting yourself as town. As in, this is like saying "I'm town", except "Help me work for the town's cause".
It makes you look as if you're trying to make yourself look like a fluffy bunny that's asking for help.
Don't you agree?
None the less, if I am a rabbit you role fisher, you'd best consider me the Monty Python version, at least to Scum like yourself. Beware the cute ones (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KillerRabbit).
Quote from: Imp
You on the other hand. Considering how you play games, are you trying to clue us in to having picked Elmer Fudd as your role choice, in a "Shhh. Be vewy vewy quiet, I'm hunting wabbits" sort of way?This just made me laugh a bit, thanks.
Newp. "Oh, you dubbuh-cwossing wabbit! You tweachewous miscweant!" is all I have to say to your Scummy side.
Quote from: Imp
*post**other post*Neat. There's something here, but I don't have the time to look at it right now. Ping me later in case I forget.
Ping. Ping. Have you had enough pings yet? Have you had enough of wasting time yet, both yours and ours?
Code: [Select]
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
I'm sorry if that's wasting your time, however it's mostly you who "wasted" it. It was never my intention to "promise a Broadway show", I was stating what I was going to do. Can you concisely state your case on me, please? And don't try to tack on unrelated things such as rolefishing, which there is no hint of in any of my posts. Thanks.
Post by: Teneb on November 02, 2013, 05:55:32 pm
Deathsword:I'll redirect anyone I feel is scummy. Preferrably to another person I also find scummy.What do you look for when deciding where to place a redirect?Deathsword: Pretend your only night-useable ability allowed you to choose to either block someone (both from receiving or taking actions) or to redirect someone (again, that redirection applies both to actions targeting that player, and to actions that player tries to make). Which would you probably use more often, and why?Redirect. I really like redirects and it can, if used right or with enough luck, destroy the plans of scum or third party.
Birdy's assessment of Toaster seems wierd, somehow. Especially his insistant claim that he feels Toaster is town. That implies he has knowledge that others do not. There is also the matter of him dodging questions, as you pointed out. As for activity, it'll increase from now on. (I know I don't have the best record when it comes to this, but I'm attempting to change that)Spoiler: @Deathsword (click to show/hide)
Cheetar
The Iqovian is certainly new, but don't you think this quote here...Spoiler: @Cheetar (click to show/hide)
It's much easier to be active on Day 2 because there's more to talk about - the results of the lynching Day 1 (if it was scum, who they seemed to be teaming up with or avoiding pressuring at all), the results of the nights actions, any information you yourself may have gotten that's usable. Right now? I suspect you, Nerjin.Spoiler: @Iqovian (click to show/hide)
This is an incredibly suspicious post. Iqovian hasn't posted as much as other people and that is your only reason to vote for him, disregarding his joke completely flying over your head. There are also other people who you've called out in your post for not posting as much, some of whom have posted even lesss but you seem much less concerned about it- is Iqovian just an easier target, given that he's newer to this style of Mafia than everybody else?
... is somewhat strange? Why would town want to shift blame onto someone else?The Iqovian— your opening post in this game was wholly passive. Is this kind of play normal for you?Well there's no one to shift any of the large amounts of blame I'm sure to accrue onto yet, and I can't read any of you. So there isn't that much to say, yet.
What do you make of that quote?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 02, 2013, 06:35:29 pm
Cheetar
The Iqovian is certainly new, but don't you think this quote here...... is somewhat strange? Why would town want to shift blame onto someone else?The Iqovian— your opening post in this game was wholly passive. Is this kind of play normal for you?Well there's no one to shift any of the large amounts of blame I'm sure to accrue onto yet, and I can't read any of you. So there isn't that much to say, yet.
What do you make of that quote?
It looks like a joke to me.
Iqovian, what did you mean by that statement?
Post by: birdy51 on November 02, 2013, 08:48:27 pm
Imp:
Birdy:Finally, I am taking TheWetSheep's argument seriously, because I find it lacking under pressure.I didn't think his point was valid in the first place, especially now that he himself has gone against it. TheWetSheep is establishing himself as valid, but he skips the part where he admits that his both his question and his vote were weak.
I believe I see what you're talking about.
When you say that you're taking his argument seriously (but don't think his point was valid in the first place and note that he's countered it himself), do you mean that you are going to be taking your reaction to his argument seriously, or his actual argument seriously?Hrmm... Regardless my point is getting convoluted. When I get some time, I'll try to arrange both off our arguments in some kind of meaningful context as opposed this gobbeldy gook mess of disconnected thoughts and words.
That's probably helpful, at least overall, but I don't mind trying to follow your 'natural style'. If I'm capable of following your words, I won't mind your letting me peer deeply into your perspective and see things from your point of view. Course, if that perspective looks Scummy, that's going to get some attention so it can be cleared up. Being confusing can be risky though - so play as you see fit. I'll try to follow however you play.
A bit of both. I am taking my counter-argument seriously, because I believe his argument is a serious enough matter to deserve seriousness. Even if I don't believe in what TheWetSheep is saying, the accusation itself is important. Everything I am saying would be null if he hadn't of made the argument in the first place, and likewise his views either gain or lose traction depending on how I responded.
Which, I should probably say this; I am glad that I kind of flew off the handle. Someone needs to make a scene, otherwise people just sort stare at each other listlessly.
As to your second point, I would expect no less than for someone to seek out a bias. I would be a bit more frightened if people weren't critically reviewing my statements.
Deathsword
Sorry for vanishing like that but had a busy day (thursday) followed by my birthday (friday) so I was a bit busy.Deathsword:I'll redirect anyone I feel is scummy. Preferrably to another person I also find scummy.What do you look for when deciding where to place a redirect?Deathsword: Pretend your only night-useable ability allowed you to choose to either block someone (both from receiving or taking actions) or to redirect someone (again, that redirection applies both to actions targeting that player, and to actions that player tries to make). Which would you probably use more often, and why?Redirect. I really like redirects and it can, if used right or with enough luck, destroy the plans of scum or third party.Birdy's assessment of Toaster seems wierd, somehow. Especially his insistant claim that he feels Toaster is town. That implies he has knowledge that others do not. There is also the matter of him dodging questions, as you pointed out. As for activity, it'll increase from now on. (I know I don't have the best record when it comes to this, but I'm attempting to change that)Spoiler: @Deathsword (click to show/hide)
Forgive me, but this seems a rather lazy brand of argument. You haven't even followed up on my responses. Otherwise, you might have noted that my claim is hardly insisting that Toaster is town. Also, I dodged "a" question, not "questions" as you might imply. Further, I have since justified said dodge, as I wanted to know why he asked the question in the first place. I realize that you are busy, but come now. Your attempt to justify what is essentially an RVS vote is doing you little favors.
A good game of Mafia cannot run on idle wheels.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 02, 2013, 09:43:04 pm
Which, I should probably say this; I am glad that I kind of flew off the handle. Someone needs to make a scene, otherwise people just sort stare at each other listlessly.
Are you claiming that you did it intentionally, or that in hindsight it's a good thing you overreacted?
Post by: notquitethere on November 03, 2013, 04:39:23 pm
Why are you so concerned with who everybody else thinks is scum? Shouldn't you be focusing on your own investigation instead of finding out who the easiest person to bandwagon on is?I don't think Nerjin's necessarily on the wrong track here. Often scum find it hard to give legitimate reasons why other players are scummy. Do you have any scum picks yet, with the day drawing to a close?
I heavily disagree- I wouldn't say scum are usually hyper active, but it's definitely not uncommon.Sure, the more successful scum are more active. But my research has shown that the most active players tend to be town.
Hapah
If that one person continues to act suspicious, then they will continue to be questioned. And sure, you can question multiple people, but I normally focus on one (sometimes two) that seem to be acting funny. There will still be questions of opportunity at others if they say something unusual or that I don't understand, but I tend to sit on one person until I'm satisfied.I'm not sure that that's the most effective technique, but it being suboptimally effective is hardly a scum-tell. You've just unvoted now, so who're you sitting on next?
Toaster
I was referring more to the "how many people do you engage" tell of yours. If you can actually follow up and get real value out of your questions, then more power to you. Typically the majority of them go nowhere and the lack of pressure they generate means they have no value.Ah that, yes. I follow up all my initial questions, and try to maintain a conversation from thereon, though obviously it's harder with so many players in this game. Sure, a lot of threads may not be initially promising but I like to keep pressing everyone, coming up with new lines of inquiry when old ones run low. Regarding Nerjin's 'joke', he actually just answered the question in his preceding response to Imp.
Speaking of Imp, what kind of read are you getting on her so far?
TolyK
Don't just respond to Imp's attack, anyone could do that. If you want us to think you're not scum you've got to press your own cases too.
The Iqovian, Tiruin— you guys still about? Got any read on the game yet?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 03, 2013, 06:36:21 pm
CheetarWhy are you so concerned with who everybody else thinks is scum? Shouldn't you be focusing on your own investigation instead of finding out who the easiest person to bandwagon on is?I don't think Nerjin's necessarily on the wrong track here. Often scum find it hard to give legitimate reasons why other players are scummy. Do you have any scum picks yet, with the day drawing to a close?
It's the person I'm voting for! (Nerjin.)
I heavily disagree- I wouldn't say scum are usually hyper active, but it's definitely not uncommon.Sure, the more successful scum are more active. But my research has shown that the most active players tend to be town.
Being active is the easiest thing to fake as scum, and some people just naturally post a lot. Being inactive may be a tell, but I don't think it's wise to consider being very active a town tell.
Post by: notquitethere on November 03, 2013, 07:00:06 pm
Being active is the easiest thing to fake as scum, and some people just naturally post a lot. Being inactive may be a tell, but I don't think it's wise to consider being very active a town tell.You've got twice as many posts as the second highest poster. Are you trying to tell us all something. Cheeetar?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 03, 2013, 07:15:14 pm
Being active is the easiest thing to fake as scum, and some people just naturally post a lot. Being inactive may be a tell, but I don't think it's wise to consider being very active a town tell.You've got twice as many posts as the second highest poster. Are you trying to tell us all something. Cheeetar?
I'm trying to tell you, specifically, that in this game and the future having a high post count is not a good town tell.
Post by: notquitethere on November 03, 2013, 07:19:50 pm
Post by: The_Iqovian on November 03, 2013, 07:30:22 pm
While I'm touched that you'd read this much into me, I'm pretty sure that you're putting more effort into this than I am. Which is easy, since I am evidently a 'lazy bum'.Iqovian: Do you trust common methods, or do you prefer to be innovative and unconventional in your scumhunting?If the method is tried and true, the scum have tried it and likely know counters. I try and be innovative, but people usually misinterpret that as acting scummy and I get lynched. Of course they interpret most things I do as scummy, so there's not much change there.
You know what might help you "innovation" a bit? Posting more and trying to figure out who's scum. Stop lurking, get off your lazy bum, and get to work peon.
Of your three posts, you've said:
1. I want to be confirmed town
2. Playing with a ventrilloquist is annoying
3. You've played email mafia and not forum mafia
4. I'll address this one personally here in a second.
5. You explain what a ventrilloquist role would entail
6. You have no trouble bussing a scum-buddy.
7. You don't have reads. So you won't do anything to get them.
8. See the above quote.
Now, onto #4, this struck me as HUGELY scummy:So you have no one to shift blame onto? You know who shifts blame Iqovian? Scum.The Iqovian— your opening post in this game was wholly passive. Is this kind of play normal for you?Well there's no one to shift any of the large amounts of blame I'm sure to accrue onto yet, and I can't read any of you. So there isn't that much to say, yet.
Alright, everything that's not #4 can easily be explained by my being a newbie, and a fairly quiet person. Not very good, but I never claimed to be.
#4 however, was a joke. I made a joke in my first post to try and lighten the mood, I don't think that's a lynchable offense. And right now, I clearly have plenty of blame to shift, that I have accrued in my role as a townie.
[snip]Thank you, that quote was a joke. I make jokes. They are rarely good, but I must practice.
This is an incredibly suspicious post. Iqovian hasn't posted as much as other people and that is your only reason to vote for him, disregarding his joke completely flying over your head. There are also other people who you've called out in your post for not posting as much, some of whom have posted even lesss but you seem much less concerned about it- is Iqovian just an easier target, given that he's newer to this style of Mafia than everybody else?
The Iqovian is certainly new, but don't you think this quote here...... is somewhat strange? Why would town want to shift blame onto someone else?The Iqovian— your opening post in this game was wholly passive. Is this kind of play normal for you?Well there's no one to shift any of the large amounts of blame I'm sure to accrue onto yet, and I can't read any of you. So there isn't that much to say, yet.
What do you make of that quote?
And, in regards to Cheeetar:
It looks like a joke to me.Aside from making a joke, it meant, essentially, 'the game has just started and I have nothing on any of you, nor do I have any reason to go after any of you. I am going to wait until the petty accusations start flying', which they have, hooray!
Iqovian, what did you mean by that statement?
The Iqovian, Tiruin— you guys still about? Got any read on the game yet?I'm still about, but since I haven't been following this actively I don't really have any good reads. Aside from mindless distrust of Nerjin now.
The IqovianFirstly, it wasn't Cheeetar's rolefishing, it was rolefishing directed at Cheeetar that was the problem.At this stage of knowing absolutely nothing about the other players, any questions I pose will be horribly generic @everyones which will do nothing but display my own ineptitude.You seem very concerned with not making a slip. Why so cautious? Also, tell me about Cheetar's supposed rolefishing.
Or land myself in hot water, like with Cheeetar's rolefishing fiasco.
And I'm cautious about not slipping up because doing so usually ends me on the business end of the Spanish Inquisition. The more I second guess myself before posting, the less others can guess me afterwards.
The_Iqovian:If the claim that they were about to use was based on something Birdy or I provably did, then even if you were lynched it could still be traced back to us, which would land two of us in hot water as opposed to just one. If we could prove that you were merely supporting a claim of ours, I think that the person who originally made the claim should be thrown under the bridge; you could get off on a sob story of being a poor townie who was tricked by the dastardly scum into supporting a false claim, and the other survivor gets brownie points for finding them out and exonerating a poor, innocent townie.Well with a ventriloquist in forum mafia, it might work as an ability, maybe something like
(?-Use/Day) Ventriloquist's Doll [target]: Speak through the target. Target must copy you directly and cannot recant for [arbitrary time period].
I'm sure I've left that wide open for exploits, but you get the gist. If someone who knew how to balance a game worked on it, I'm sure something vaguely tolerable could work.
Aha! That works well for me, thanks.Assuming we're not absolutely reliant on Imp for our wincon, and it's Imp's fault (the claim isn't based on something Birdy or I provably did), join the masses trying to lynch him, and furiously work in scum chat to get them out of it.
Assuming I wasn't vital for our wincon, what would you do differently if you felt the claim was Birdy's fault? What would you do differently if you felt that it was your fault?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 03, 2013, 07:36:23 pm
Actual evidence (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=132415.0) says otherwise.
A thread you created. It's a classy way to try to prove your point, if nothing else.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 03, 2013, 07:39:06 pm
The Player With The Highest Post count Is Never Scum
I, the player with the highest post count (it's me!), do not buy into your theory. Thus, your immediate reaction is to FoS me because I am acting scummily in my disbelief? You asked earlier who my scum picks were. One of them is you.
Post by: notquitethere on November 03, 2013, 07:52:44 pm
Actual evidence (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=132415.0) says otherwise.
A thread you created. It's a classy way to try to prove your point, if nothing else.
Let me get this straight, Notquitethere. You believe that:The fact I created that thread doesn't detract from the fact that of all mafia games this year, in only one was the top poster scum. This makes it a very good not-scum tell, but obviously not-scum doesn't mean town. 3rd parties can post a lot too. If you read the theory thread a bit further you'd see that it's not impossible for scum to be top poster (it has a 1/14 incidence this year, so I shouldn't have replaced 'never' with 'rarely') and so your insistence that your position as top poster wasn't a town-tell struck me as a bit eye-brow raising.The Player With The Highest Post count Is Never Scum
I, the player with the highest post count (it's me!), do not buy into your theory. Thus, your immediate reaction is to FoS me because I am acting scummily in my disbelief? You asked earlier who my scum picks were. One of them is you.
The Iqovian
Your concern about aattracting attention somewhat ensure that you do attract attention. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Now you're back and paying attention are you going to press a case? Is your distrust of Nerjin enough to vote him on?
Post by: notquitethere on November 03, 2013, 07:54:52 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on November 03, 2013, 08:03:21 pm
The fact I created that thread doesn't detract from the fact that of all mafia games this year, in only one was the top poster scum. This makes it a very good not-scum tell, but obviously not-scum doesn't mean town. 3rd parties can post a lot too. If you read the theory thread a bit further you'd see that it's not impossible for scum to be top poster (it has a 1/14 incidence this year, so I shouldn't have replaced 'never' with 'rarely') and so your insistence that your position as top poster wasn't a town-tell struck me as a bit eye-brow raising.
What percentage of the playerbase in those games was scum (25%?) and of those top posters which consistently post a lot in mafia games and which only post a lot when they're not scum?
Specifically, Cheetar, it appeared that you were implictly claiming a third-party role. So, straight face now: are you a third-party?
No, but nice fishing. Are you scum?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 03, 2013, 08:17:05 pm
Do you believe a townie should be most concerned with avoiding suspicion, or finding scum? Before you answer, take a look at your own posts- you've been very passive, and now that people have put out much more content there's no excuse to not be looking for suspicious things and asking questions.
Post by: TheWetSheep on November 03, 2013, 08:37:00 pm
You can make an accusation against me, but if it's weak you better as hell, you'd best understand that I will press you on it. To defend one selves honor is just as important as infiltrating and finding the traitorous scum who would kill us in the night. Further, when one strikes lazily with a sword in the daylight, you don't stand there and let it cut you, like a coward might. Nay, you parry and strike a stinging blow in return!O_o I can tell you were watching Zorro.
But anyway, of course you can defend yourself. But defending yourself doesn't necessarily mean voting the other person, does it?
And can you please answer this question:
I was scumhunting. What made you mistrust my intentions?
More later.
Post by: The_Iqovian on November 04, 2013, 12:42:05 am
Iqovian:You're right, a townie probably should be more involved in scum hunting than I have been.
Do you believe a townie should be most concerned with avoiding suspicion, or finding scum? Before you answer, take a look at your own posts- you've been very passive, and now that people have put out much more content there's no excuse to not be looking for suspicious things and asking questions.
The IqovianActually, yeah I think I will.
Your concern about aattracting attention somewhat ensure that you do attract attention. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Now you're back and paying attention are you going to press a case? Is your distrust of Nerjin enough to vote him on?
He's a bit to quick to leap onto scummy behavior in day 1, and his only real evidence against me is obviously a joke.
Trying to lynch me for a low post count? Go for it. But for making a bad joke? That's reaching.
It looks to me like he's trying to get rid of me - a laudable cause to be sure - but I think his motives this time are more along the lines of 'killing all the townies', than de-scumming the docks.
I now place my vote for Nerjin.
Post by: birdy51 on November 04, 2013, 07:03:10 am
So, I am going to go ahead and throw out an Extend vote for now. I'll be working on the rest of business throughout the Day and have an actual post up later.
Post by: Imp on November 04, 2013, 07:07:32 am
Post by: Cheeetar on November 04, 2013, 07:55:40 am
Post by: TolyK on November 04, 2013, 10:10:11 am
Post by: notquitethere on November 04, 2013, 10:19:11 am
What percentage of the playerbase in those games was scum (25%?) and of those top posters which consistently post a lot in mafia games and which only post a lot when they're not scum?Scum usually account for 22-23% of the players. Even players that usually post a lot posted less than the top non-scum player when they played scum. It's because scum is usually played reactively whilst good town-play is proactive. If you're sceptical, don't take my word for it: open up the lurker tracker (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~azhou/projects/LT/) and put in the links to the game-starting (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=125287.msg4465558#msg4465558) posts then sort by number of posts.
Since when is it an issue to 'fish' for alignments? I wasn't asking for anything relating to abilities. And no, I'm not scum.Specifically, Cheetar, it appeared that you were implictly claiming a third-party role. So, straight face now: are you a third-party?No, but nice fishing. Are you scum?
Wuba— any chance of a vote count?
Iqovian
It looks to me like he's trying to get rid of me - a laudable cause to be sure - but I think his motives this time are more along the lines of 'killing all the townies', than de-scumming the docks.Do you think that Nerjin has the weakest vote in the game then?
Toaster, Tiruin, Hapah, Birdy, TolyK—
The lynch vote is the weapon of town, without it we can't win. It's getting pretty close to the end of the day: are you going to use your vote?
Post by: Hapah on November 04, 2013, 10:22:53 am
Rereading now.
Post by: webadict on November 04, 2013, 01:33:49 pm
------------------------
birdy51 - Deathsword, TheWetSheep,
Cheeetar -
Deathsword -
Hapah -
Imp -
Nerjin - Cheeetar, The_Iqovian,
notquitethere -
Shakerag -
The_Iqovian - notquitethere, Nerjin,
TheWetSheep -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK - Shakerag, Imp,
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Tiruin, Toaster, TolyK, birdy51, Hapah,
7 To Hammer. Day ends Monday 8 PM Central.
4 of 7 to Extend.
If I missed your vote, let me know. My eyes ain't what they used to be.
Post by: Nerjin on November 04, 2013, 01:35:41 pm
Birdy51
Post by: TolyK on November 04, 2013, 02:03:17 pm
Post by: Nerjin on November 04, 2013, 02:04:17 pm
Post by: Shakerag on November 04, 2013, 03:34:53 pm
Cheeetar@179: Why are you chainsawing Nerjin so hard? It looks like his vote on The Iqovian is a pressure/reaction vote to me. Also, nice lowball there @205. You know you can just give advice to your scumbuddy in scumchat, right?
Imp: Yeah ... can you give me a tl;dr about your case on TolyK? There's a lot of fluff there. [PPE: I see Toaster made the same observation.]
TolyK:
I find it interesting that you chose to make note about there likely being another SK or cult first in your reply. Makes me think that those things are in the front of your mind. Which is something that scum would be worried about. And just because you may or may not have a plan on D1, doesn't mean that you wouldn't be worried about roles that could throw a wrench in your plans later.TolyK:I'm not quite sure (pun not intended... >.>) how you came to that conclusion. I was asked a question for "really common things" to look out for, so I answered to my knowledge. Even if I were scum, I don't think I would have any overarching plans on D1, and I'd be more worried about a cop or something ruining my plans.Worried about another SK? Worried about a cult? Worried about something ruining your plans? Hi scum.TolyK— you've played a lot of role heavy games right? Are there any really common things we should be looking out for?Well, considering it's a WUBA game, there's likely "another" SK, since he modkilled one instantly, or a cult.
Common things? Don't say everything you know instantly, and always always always check facts with your facts.
And there's always gonna be this crazy jig that ruins a lot of stuff in BYOR's. See: BYO Cards, where my Auto ability gave me a day to myself.
But the main thing is, does my answering that way mean that I'm worried about something?
Possibly? You *hope* not? Waffle around a bit more, scumbag.TolyK:Possibly, but I hope not.
TolyK has been putting on a show for us!
...
To hide that he's doing absolutely nothing but wasting his time and ours.
NQT:
Toaster, Tiruin, Hapah, Birdy, TolyK—Need some pom-poms to go with that cheerleading? You've had a vote parked on The_Iqovian for a while now. Are you doing anything about that or just keeping up appearances?
The lynch vote is the weapon of town, without it we can't win. It's getting pretty close to the end of the day: are you going to use your vote?
Post by: Tiruin on November 04, 2013, 04:28:45 pm
However, the shoddy net = a post later on, hopefully. extend
Post by: birdy51 on November 04, 2013, 05:05:59 pm
In that case I think I'll go with my second pick. Unvote
Birdy51
The bolded words. What do they refer to? In addition, why the late extension vote nearly three hours later?
I learned this morning that I will be attending a funeral here pretty soon. Family died on Sunday and I did not hear about it until early this morning. To those paying attention to this post, count it is as a double reason for not voting. I don't think I can be fully involved in this game right now, and voting anyone right now would be a bit irresponsible.
Post by: Hapah on November 04, 2013, 05:28:06 pm
Post by: Imp on November 04, 2013, 06:54:11 pm
Post by: Nerjin on November 04, 2013, 07:17:29 pm
In that case I think I'll go with my second pick. Unvote
Birdy51
The bolded words. What do they refer to? In addition, why the late extension vote nearly three hours later?
I learned this morning that I will be attending a funeral here pretty soon. Family died on Sunday and I did not hear about it until early this morning. To those paying attention to this post, count it is as a double reason for not voting. I don't think I can be fully involved in this game right now, and voting anyone right now would be a bit irresponsible.
They refer to the three way tie in votes. A lynch day 1 is better than no lynch. I'm just about as suspicious as you as I am Iquovian so I'm willing to wait until tomorrow [in game] to continue to build a case.
I hope everything goes well with the funeral. As well as it can at any rate, and hope you feel up to playing again soon. We'll miss ya kiddo.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 04, 2013, 09:15:44 pm
Extend.
Cheeetar@179: Why are you chainsawing Nerjin so hard? It looks like his vote on The Iqovian is a pressure/reaction vote to me. Also, nice lowball there @205. You know you can just give advice to your scumbuddy in scumchat, right?
By chainsawing I assume you mean pressuring, or? I honestly don't know what you mean by it. Anyway, he posted suspiciously and hasn't explained himself fully, and his only response to the suspicions against him has been changing his vote in the hopes that it'll stop people voting for him or something?
Nerjin, please at least attempt to answer the questions I asked you. You're here, you're posting in the thread, don't just ignore the questions and hope they go away.
Everybody else, I hope you realise how scummy it is that Nerjin is just completely ignoring my questions.
Post by: Nerjin on November 04, 2013, 09:18:22 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on November 04, 2013, 09:29:21 pm
I hope you realize how I can be very busy. Anyway I was about to get around to a catch-up read. May I ask you a quick question, I don't expect you to answer until after I answer yours [as is only fair], but I'm wondering why your language in that most recent post seems so desperate. My question is this: Why are you so desperate to get people voting for me? Are we pressuring a buddy of yours?
Who in this post is 'we'- are you using it in the royal form, or referring to everybody in general? Who exactly do you think you are pressuring? Why did you unvote Iqovian- did you realise how poor your reason for voting for him was, or was there anything specifically that convinced you he was innocent? Your reasons for voting Birdy, by the way, are... he didn't answer a question quickly enough for you, and he thinks Toaster is town.
So let's see what you've done here... you've unvoted a person without explaining why (although you were voting for him for very flimsy reasons in the first place), you've voted for another person without really explaining why except saying that you've stated your suspicions in a different post (and they were very flimsy suspicions), and you're replying to my posts and other people's but you're too busy to explain yourself.
Post by: Nerjin on November 04, 2013, 09:34:54 pm
In that case I think I'll go with my second pick. Unvote
Birdy51
The bolded words. What do they refer to? In addition, why the late extension vote nearly three hours later?
I learned this morning that I will be attending a funeral here pretty soon. Family died on Sunday and I did not hear about it until early this morning. To those paying attention to this post, count it is as a double reason for not voting. I don't think I can be fully involved in this game right now, and voting anyone right now would be a bit irresponsible.
They refer to the three way tie in votes. A lynch day 1 is better than no lynch. I'm just about as suspicious as you as I am Iquovian so I'm willing to wait until tomorrow [in game] to continue to build a case.
And my reasons for suspecting Birdy are that he dodged a question with such intensity that it set off an alarm for me. He dodged it around four or five times.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 04, 2013, 09:45:08 pm
And my reasons for suspecting Birdy are that he dodged a question with such intensity that it set off an alarm for me. He dodged it around four or five times.
Because an innocent townie like you would never dodge a question, right? He at least answered his in the end.
Post by: Nerjin on November 04, 2013, 09:50:11 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on November 04, 2013, 09:52:26 pm
Are you aware of what dodging a question is? I've got a bunch of players to go through, a ton of posts to sort out, and I'm going to answer your damn questions here in a little bit. If you could please be patient I'll have your questions in a moment.
I'm not sure if you know, but the day is ending quite soon. Stop trying to get me to stop pressuring you and just answer the questions. If you're innocent, you won't have to think too hard to answer them because you don't have to worry about implicating yourself in anything, right?
Post by: Nerjin on November 04, 2013, 09:55:57 pm
Post by: Imp on November 04, 2013, 10:07:53 pm
Time pressure exists but isn't like, a few more seconds to go.
Sorry for brevity for now, still at work and have to get back too it. I'll get a post with answers and questions up tonight.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 04, 2013, 10:11:45 pm
Right now we have 8 extend votes: birdy, Imp, Cheeetar, TolyK, Nerjin, Shakerag, Tiruin, Hapah, and no shortens, so we got our extend.
Time pressure exists but isn't like, a few more seconds to go.
Sorry for brevity for now, still at work and have to get back too it. I'll get a post with answers and questions up tonight.
Alright, phew.
Post by: Toaster on November 04, 2013, 10:14:37 pm
Doubt I'll be able to get a coherent post out tonight- early work tomorrow.
Post by: TheWetSheep on November 04, 2013, 10:24:07 pm
I know I promised more, but I really can't right now.
Post by: Tiruin on November 04, 2013, 11:00:23 pm
Imp
Tiruin: Why do you like me so much? I know why I like you, but I have no idea why you like me!..You like me? O_o Yay
I like you because of personality. I am attracted towards personality, purely. Nothing else. I see aspiration and potential in you, and the developing mind of an analytical person. Perhaps an abstract thinker who can rationalize beyond the limits of most people, argue with the greatest of philosophers, and still keep to their principles. It's a generally good thing which has no application to Mafia (..or as far as I see it anyways). Err, just like I like everyone else here because we're one big bunch of gunslinging paranoid people, at times? Yes, that.
NQT
Tiruin— if you're a benevolent third party will you be tempted to claim early again?I don't trust people anymore for that, thanks to the backlash I got in that one game where I did. And that nobody believed me. And other vehement feelings caused by being attacked and ignored and all that in favor of the more 'powerful' enemy and all that.
No. I'd just shut up and let others die for all I care. Which would reinforce the stupid 'kill all third-parties haahahaahaha' note I was officially against. But yeah, I'll just shut up and leave you people to die in ignorance.
Yes I felt really spiteful when I wrote this.
The Iqovian, Tiruin— you guys still about? Got any read on the game yet?I-..I...
I don't have a total read yet, but..I'm honestly busy at the moment and have been busy-of varying intervals-in the past days in order to justify getting any read. I wouldn't ask for a replacement because it would either give the replacer a harder time to get all this reads up, and I know that I got it in my to take this on.
..I'll get back to you later on. I am a horrible player.
birdy51
Now, I note that you use the word tangible in your response. This suggests that you might be actually implying the very opposite of what you are trying to say. In others, I believe that your role is intangible, something that cannot be touched. Furthermore, you related to me the fact that you are not a monster and that you are a person. What is not a monster and can't be touched? Casper the Friendly Ghost. I have you all figured out now....It's still a generality. I just made it more specific than 'whatever my role can be'.
Also I'm not Casper. If that was the context...I have a lot of supernatural thoughts to pick. :3
All of this attention makes me feel loved inside. ^.^ Back to business!...Everyone loves everyone here equally. Hence them drawing knives and guns and other pointy killy things to get this game rolling. :D
Cheet
Tiruin, people have fairly high hopes for you this game, but you've yet to make a second post after your first. Do you have any thoughts on the answers to the questions you've asked?...Yeah. Second post is here, and its only answering queries directed at me with lack of poking at posts due to busy-ness :/ Though I'm unsure on the 'high hopes' put on my shoulder. It just seems that people want to mark me either as a volatile, unstable element which is good if its Town (harmless to them[?]) or bad if scum (...come to think of it, Nerjin's question didn't put in the context of 'considering that you're of x alignment' when he asked the Top Town/Scum want-picks)...
...Well, they're declarative, and show what the person wants. Not much I can pick from those I asked since..well, it seems satisfactory enough, and that I can't think of, and find any other gain from questioning the answers set from my question since then. Well, except for Nerjin.
Everybody else, I hope you realise how scummy it is that Nerjin is just completely ignoring my questions....What's the difference with Nerjin being scummy here compared to me who had 'ignored' questions until now?
Nerjin
...Will have to wait till next post.Spoiler: @Tiruin (click to show/hide)
However, here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4730489#msg4730489), I didn't see it until Cheet asked (due to realization) but you didn't draw any place where the answerer would put themselves in to answer your question, huh. Is there anything else you can glean from it? Because I'm seeing those answers by people now-less of a general viewpoint and more of connected to their alignments.
...It's a vague thing I can't fully explain, but I see some pattern there.
I'm...ok.PFP - :'( // :-\ // :( are my t???wohree predominant moods IRL and thus I believe I'll be lacking to post in quite a few hours because stuffy stuffs.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 04, 2013, 11:06:54 pm
Everybody else, I hope you realise how scummy it is that Nerjin is just completely ignoring my questions....What's the difference with Nerjin being scummy here compared to me who had 'ignored' questions until now?
Nerjin's been around and posting, but not answering my questions, which is a way a scum could be 'active' but still try to avoid being scumhunted. You haven't been around at all, and I trust that you've been legitimately busy with real life stuff.
Post by: Nerjin on November 04, 2013, 11:22:13 pm
Spoiler: @Birdy51 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Cheetar (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Deathsword (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Hapah (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Imp (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Notquitethere (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Shakerag (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @TheIquovian (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @TheWetSheep (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Tiruin (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Toaster (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @TolyK (click to show/hide)
Post by: Hapah on November 05, 2013, 12:37:30 am
Spoiler: Nerjin (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Birdy (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Iquov (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Tolyk (click to show/hide)
The only one that really looks like it might have teeth is the bits pointing at Tolyk. The others seem like forgotten RVS votes or votes to try to spur people into action.
Nerjin: Why birdy over the other 2 you were tied with? (PPE: Looks like you've detailed your reason a little more in your latest post, but I don't have the time to read it right now).
Shake: Just to make sure I've got this straight; your reasoning for voting Tolyk is contained in this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4733377#msg4733377) post, right?
NQT: I get what you're doing with Iq, but what's the next step if he doesn't do what you want?
Bed time now. Posting will still be spotty for the next two days, but the traveling for work should be over then. Will try to check thread as much as I can and answer questions directed at me, at least.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 05, 2013, 12:43:37 am
Spoiler: Nerjin's Birdy51 analysis (click to show/hide)
If I'm reading this correctly- you believe Birdy's rolefishing to be suspicious, and his dodging of the question for a bit to be suspicious as well. Your fixation on this is strange to me, given something else- you believe me to be scum, or at least keep strongly hinting that I'm on a scum team (your posts of 'why is he trying to defend Birdy?' 'why is he trying to defend TheIqovian?' when I question your sudden, unexplained shifts of voting and (earlier) your poor reasoning). Why, then, are you so concerned with who you believe to be a fellow scum teammate of mine (after all, you're voting for him because he's scum, right?) role fishing on me? If you actually believed he was scum and I was scum, it'd be a bit hard for you to believe he was rolefishing a fellow teammate, no?
Of course, you've never outright said that you think you've spotted a scum team. That'd make it entirely too easy to catch you later on. No, you just hint at it and leave townies to draw the conclusion, leaving yourself safe if the lies you've implied become known as falsehoods.
Spoiler: Nerjin's Cheetar (sic?) analysis (click to show/hide)
You keep harping on about that one thing that Iqovian has said, the joke. I find it hard to believe you earnestly think that Iqovian was saying that in all seriousness, so I'm forced to believe you're thinking one thing and saying another, and hoping nobody notices.
You say I'm doing nothing- I am pursuing you a lot! Maybe you'd like townies to think that my suspicions of you are nothing. Your lies aren't too convincing.
Spoiler: Nerjin's Deathsword analysis (click to show/hide)
Empty analysis, but not scummy. There's not much to analyse in Deathsword's case.
Spoiler: Nerjin's Hapah analysis (click to show/hide)
Another empty post.
Spoiler: Nerjin's Imp analysis (click to show/hide)
Empty-ish, with possibly useful advice. Are you running out of steam, Nerjin?
Spoiler: Nerjin's Notquitethere analysis (click to show/hide)
Why don't you feel comfortable mentioning these 'close calls'? Empty post.
Spoiler: Nerjin's Shakerag analysis (click to show/hide)
Interesting! Do you disagree with Shakerag that worry about cults or SKs (moreso than worrying about, say, mafia) is scummy? It seems to be the entirety of your analysis of him.
Spoiler: Nerjin's TheIquovian analysis (click to show/hide)
"This person is definitely 100% scum because of off colour remarks and... he's scum! I won't vote him however, because I'm far more concerned voting this other person so I can get a lynch in!"
The sad thing is that your case against him could be completely destroyed if Iqovian could be bothered actually defending himself, instead of acting as uncertainly as he has. Have more confidence in yourself, Iqovian!
Spoiler: Nerjin's TheWetSheep analysis (click to show/hide)
Empty.
Spoiler: Nerjin's Tiruin analysis (click to show/hide)
Empty, apart from asking to clarify something they said about him.
Spoiler: Nerjin's Toaster analysis (click to show/hide)
Empty.
Spoiler: Nerjin's TolyK analysis (click to show/hide)
Some setting up for pursuing Toly later if things don't go well with your other targets? Poking, but no questions.
Let's see... 7 of 12 of your reads are empty or almost completely empty. I'm not going to give you brownie points for saying 'this person hasn't said much, so I don't have anything to say about them!', nor for saying 'this person is probably town but I'm not going to say for certain'.
The meat of your post is concerned with 3 people- me, Birdy, and TheIqovian. You're throwing as many arguments as you possibly can in the hopes that one of them will stick, although I notice that you're suddenly very apprehensive of actually saying that you think I'm scum. There's a joke I heard that I think illustrates what I think you're doing- a lawyer is defending somebody accused of breaking a priceless Ming vase, and his opening statement is "First, I will prove that my client never borrowed the vase. Second, I will prove that when my client borrowed the vase, it was already broken, and third, I will prove that when my client returned the vase it was in perfect condition."
You have no intention of providing a rational argument that we're scum, just as the lawyer has no intention of proving that his client never broke the vase- you just want to cast as much suspicion on us as possible to get a lynch. You're still getting my vote, Nerjin.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 05, 2013, 12:49:38 am
Quote from: CheetarThis (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4732803#msg4732803) is an incredibly suspicious post. Iqovian hasn't posted as much as other people and that is your only reason to vote for him, disregarding his joke completely flying over your head. There are also other people who you've called out in your post for not posting as much, some of whom have posted even lesss but you seem much less concerned about it- is Iqovian just an easier target, given that he's newer to this style of Mafia than everybody else?Vote due to choice of target?
I don't understand what you're asking here.
Quote from: CHeetar, I think? Got my tabs mixed upFor rolefishing, I guess?Cheeetar - Are you satisfied with your role?I love the smell of rolefishing in the morning. Why did you ask this?
That aint me, yo.
Post by: Imp on November 05, 2013, 07:23:40 am
Imp, I like you. I hope you play in some of my games :]
I am honored, delighted, and I'd love to. Thank you very much.
Toaster and Birdy:
What you're looking for is the Too Townie (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Too_Townie) fallacy. It doesn't fly.
Thanks Toaster. I was aware of that fallacy and wonder at how close our newbie games' Common Scumtells comes to it:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
But I hadn't connected it to play in Lylo. Birdy, was that what you were trying to find, or were you looking for something else?
Re:Summary of case on TolyK:
Your vote here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4734875#msg4734875)... I don't get it. The theatrics are nice, but they lack a conclusion.
Can you concisely state your case on me, please?
Imp: Yeah ... can you give me a tl;dr about your case on TolyK? There's a lot of fluff there. [PPE: I see Toaster made the same observation.]
TolyK's been 'interpretive dancing', and not even doing the 'interpretive Scumhunting dance' which might be useful. Almost every post he has made appears to me to be a stylistic form of active lurking.
His first post he says,
I won't ask any real questions yetHe asks the one question to three people, then does almost nothing since except answer others' questions and jerk his one question around like it's a magic key. Always hyping it, nearly every post he makes it the target of focus and constantly refers back to it. 'Does things with it', like analyze those three responses on the most obvious level possible and . If this is Scumhunting, he's doing it like an anglerfish hunts - and I'm by no means convinced that he's doing that either. His show appears not to be -that- kind of show, and I fail to see how he's trying to lure anyone into exposing anything - instead it has the feel of illusion, and aggrandization, an attempt to industriously hide his lack of interest in Scumhunting by doing something else that he is able to feel enthusastic about - creating and playing this multistaged game of his.
It's something he can pour energy into and make it look like he's doing something every time he hypes again; it attempts to hide his lack of back and forth interaction with anyone but us (he briefly answers questions, then puts focus back on his question). He's identified us as newer players, he's most recently started 'coaching'.
TolyK:You're all basically doing stuff I did when I was newer - going with the "I'm innocent, so why is what I say scummy?", "Lets help the town", "Oh crap someone said something about me it must be serious" (in order). Thus, I'm fairly sure you're all town, because I haven't found anything damning your case yet. However, I'll be looking for the time being.
I'm not quite following you with this one… Would you care to expound why you clump us all together?
Think of this as me testing you as a group.
I think this is his excuse to 'dance' through the game and hide his lack of focus on finding Scum, because he's 'to busy' to lift his eyes from the three newish (ahh, weakness, smell the blood in the air? Rare is the newbie who can defend themself effectively) players that he's 'busying himself with'.
TolyK:
Were you aware that you asked more questions in response to my challenge to you than you've asked the entire game before that point?
Added bolding for emphasis:
The first question asks you if your engagement - how you are playing the game, and where your focus is - is the same when you 'want to play more as Scum' as you are when you 'want to play less as Town'.Quote from: ImpI... don't quite understand the first question.I think Cheetar, Imp, TolyK and you are the most engaged in the game and this is usually a good proxy for town. I found Cheetar a bit too passive at the beginning but he's done a fairly good job of explaining where he's coming from....
I'm usually even more wanting to play the game as scum, though, since that's rarer. So I don't quite agree with your logic.
Oh, but how you engage, would you say that's the same? How can you have so much energy to put into building intricate riddles through multiple players' posts and keep up your Scumhunting too? Oh, right. You're playing your own game instead of Scumhunting. I see it now, thanks!
Quote from: ImpRole fishing? Seriously? You are trying so hard to "prove my guilt" that you are trying to tack everything even slightly related to it?Nope. Sincere question, I meant every word I said. Happens I'm a newbie, this is my third game. The first two haven't ended yet; when you look at my ears that's not length you see; they're still wet.I don't hear much about passivity finding Scum. Could you offer some links to help me find where passive play has been used effectively to assist and ensure Town wins?This is really painting yourself as town. As in, this is like saying "I'm town", except "Help me work for the town's cause".
It makes you look as if you're trying to make yourself look like a fluffy bunny that's asking for help.
Don't you agree?
None the less, if I am a rabbit you role fisher, you'd best consider me the Monty Python version, at least to Scum like yourself. Beware the cute ones (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KillerRabbit).
Nope. It's not for me to prove your guilt, or innocence. That's for you. Granted, you're showing a heck of a lot of Scumminess - what I'm really doing here is pointedly 'failing the interview (http://www.swprn.com/blog/fail-the-interview/)'. It looks a lot to me like you're sniffing around for a good target - someone (or a few someones) to chuck stuff at to support your current and future active lurking activities. One that's "a fluffy bunny" would do just fine, you seem to be saying. I am not one. I expect that I've made that clear - if not, keep sniffing. I'll make it a lot clearer if needed.
And unfortunately, your victim-interviewing behavior is NOT tacked on. It's part and parcel of the active lurking you've done since your first post of the game.
*post**other post*Neat. There's something here, but I don't have the time to look at it right now. Ping me later in case I forget.
Ping. Ping.
Have you had enough time yet?
Have you had enough time to stop active lurking, or will you ever, this game?
Hapah: Pretty early in the game you asked a question about what one could learn about playing Mafia without playing the game. Have you found that the skills and ways of thinking that you use for Mafia are pretty useless and really different from what you use in the other parts of your life?
Quote from: CHeetar, I think? Got my tabs mixed upNope, quote's from TheWetSheep, same post as the correct quote right above it.
Cheeetar, do you feel more protective towards The_Iqovian than you do most other players?
Cheeetar@179: Why are you chainsawing Nerjin so hard? It looks like his vote on The Iqovian is a pressure/reaction vote to me. Also, nice lowball there @205. You know you can just give advice to your scumbuddy in scumchat, right?
By chainsawing I assume you mean pressuring, or? I honestly don't know what you mean by it. Anyway, he posted suspiciously and hasn't explained himself fully, and his only response to the suspicions against him has been changing his vote in the hopes that it'll stop people voting for him or something?
From the newbie games standard opening post, in the Common Scumtells section:
Defending/Chainsawing: Defending just means what it sounds like: saying things to defend another player's actions or words. Chainsawing or chainsaw defending means attacking someone who's attacking another player in an attempt to get them to stop. The idea in both instances is that townies don't know if their fellow players are innocent or not, and hence have no real reason to defend them from legitimate persecution. Scum, on the other hand, know they're on a team and so are prone to not wanting their buddies found out or pressured.
Birdy, when you ask Nerjin this:
why the late extension vote nearly three hours later?
You made me look closer at the extensions:
4 of 7 to Extend.
Need more extensions, please!
Alright, I'm willing to play along here. Extend you people not voting better get in gear.
That doesn't look weird to me. When I look at the time that Nerjin posts his extension and three hours earlier - that's a 'deadtime', there's no posts at all there.
What makes Nerjin's extension vote late, and what is it three hours later than?
The_Iqovian, how new a player are you? You've played other Mafia games or Mafia-like games elsewhere, yes? Lots or just a few? Do you generally like Mafia games?
Your 'joke' comment that's attracted so much attention (it's just one of many jokes, I notice); initially, instead of answering a question, you answered the question with that joke (which makes your joke your answer... that's important to consider), but later you DO clarify and give your real answer by saying what it meant, yes? You do that here:
Cheetar
The Iqovian is certainly new, but don't you think this quote here...... is somewhat strange? Why would town want to shift blame onto someone else?The Iqovian— your opening post in this game was wholly passive. Is this kind of play normal for you?Well there's no one to shift any of the large amounts of blame I'm sure to accrue onto yet, and I can't read any of you. So there isn't that much to say, yet.
What do you make of that quote?
It looks like a joke to me.Aside from making a joke, it meant, essentially, 'the game has just started and I have nothing on any of you, nor do I have any reason to go after any of you. I am going to wait until the petty accusations start flying', which they have, hooray!
Iqovian, what did you mean by that statement?
Would you expound a bit on your philosophy of "nor do I have any reason to go after any of you"? When asked about your reads,
The Iqovian, Tiruin— you guys still about? Got any read on the game yet?I'm still about, but since I haven't been following this actively I don't really have any good reads. Aside from mindless distrust of Nerjin now.
That "mindless distrust" comes from Nerjin analyzing your posts and finding them lacking, yes? Is that really a Scum-tell, even if he's wrong? Is that how you identify Scum - because they target apparent flaws or weaknesses in your play (which Town wouldn't do for some reason...?)?
The IqovianActually, yeah I think I will.
Is your distrust of Nerjin enough to vote him on?
He's a bit to quick to leap onto scummy behavior in day 1, and his only real evidence against me is obviously a joke.
Trying to lynch me for a low post count? Go for it. But for making a bad joke? That's reaching.
It looks to me like he's trying to get rid of me - a laudable cause to be sure - but I think his motives this time are more along the lines of 'killing all the townies', than de-scumming the docks.
I now place my vote for Nerjin.
Yes please, it's very much time for you to show that case you state, the why behind your "I think his motives this time are more along the lines of 'killing all the townies', than de-scumming the docks."
Shakerag:
Deathsword:Trying to figure out how to avoid catching a redirect, Imp?What do you look for when deciding where to place a redirect?Deathsword: Pretend your only night-useable ability allowed you to choose to either block someone (both from receiving or taking actions) or to redirect someone (again, that redirection applies both to actions targeting that player, and to actions that player tries to make). Which would you probably use more often, and why?Redirect. I really like redirects and it can, if used right or with enough luck, destroy the plans of scum or third party.
Nope. Wanted a closer look at what Deathsword would say about the right use of them.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 05, 2013, 07:52:53 am
Cheeetar, do you feel more protective towards The_Iqovian than you do most other players?
I'd be happier if he turned out to be town than scum, and I'd be glad if he started playing earnestly (he's been somewhat busy in real life, as have a few other people in this game)- that's not my reason for attacking Nerjin, though. If Iqovian does start acting legitimately scummy I'll vote for and pressure him- it might seem that I'm letting him off easy, but I know his style of writing a bit more than other people do.
By chainsawing I assume you mean pressuring, or? I honestly don't know what you mean by it. Anyway, he posted suspiciously and hasn't explained himself fully, and his only response to the suspicions against him has been changing his vote in the hopes that it'll stop people voting for him or something?
From the newbie games standard opening post, in the Common Scumtells section:Defending/Chainsawing: Defending just means what it sounds like: saying things to defend another player's actions or words. Chainsawing or chainsaw defending means attacking someone who's attacking another player in an attempt to get them to stop. The idea in both instances is that townies don't know if their fellow players are innocent or not, and hence have no real reason to defend them from legitimate persecution. Scum, on the other hand, know they're on a team and so are prone to not wanting their buddies found out or pressured.
Ah, okay. Thanks.
I think this is his excuse to 'dance' through the game and hide his lack of focus on finding Scum, because he's 'to busy' to lift his eyes from the three newish (ahh, weakness, smell the blood in the air? Rare is the newbie who can defend themself effectively) players that he's 'busying himself with'.
Do you think that newer members should be given more 'slack' when they make mistakes, or to be treated the same as others?
Post by: Imp on November 05, 2013, 08:25:56 am
Do you think that newer members should be given more 'slack' when they make mistakes, or to be treated the same as others?
Different slack. Not really more or less, and yes, for the sake of the game, 'effectively' treated the 'same' - studied as an individual to determine if they are actually currently Town or anti-Town. The goal's to identify the Scum, not to identify the weaker players. Weaker players are going to be identified in the process. They need to be checked in an attempt to determine their intentions and motives. How I try to determine if a newbie has good intentions (but perhaps atrocious methods) is different than how I try to determine if an experienced player has the same.
How experienced a newbie is, this is a factor too, also not all newbies learn at the same speed or came to the game needing to learn the same lessons about how to play.
The best way I can think to answer you is to change the question a bit - How do you distinguish between Scum or Town weaker players, and how do you distinguish between Scum or Town stronger players?
Regardless of newbie status, I think intention's the way to go with both. It's complicated by weaker players having less ability to create a method that effectively might attain their intentions (or even show what they wanted to achieve in the first place), and also complicated by stronger players being highly able to create methods that appear Town until it's just the right moment to no longer appear Town - when it's so late it doesn't matter what shows.
We could lynch all the weakest players in most games and lose to the Scum, I believe most of the time that would occur, because sometimes strong players are Scum.
However, there's a bottom level of competency. That bottom level for each game shows the minimum that Scum must play to. By forcing that level to rise, through pressure, guidance, teaching, lynching, or any other method, it is possible to 'force' Scum to change methods and 'play better' if they can. Since Scum play is understood to be more difficult, that increases the odds of being caught for all but the most skilled.
Another factor to consider, I've just started to learn about, is Lylo. Who the heck to try and be in Lylo with - that actually may be an entire additional darn good reason to lynch based on competency minimums. I think I'm going to be thinking those and related concepts over for some time to come.
Post by: The_Iqovian on November 05, 2013, 09:10:04 am
Spoiler: @TheIquovian (click to show/hide)
Oh, I'm sorry. You're right. I guess I should jump on townie behavior day 1 because... What? Also, we have vastly varying definitions of "obviously" because I didn't see anything resembling a joke. They usually have punchlines. Yours did not. Work on that for me alright kiddo? I am trying to get rid of you though. I'll admit that. Why? Because you're the scummiest person in the game right now.Jokes don't always have written punchlines, and the fact that you don't see the humour doesn't mean there is none.
Summary: Scum scum scum scum scum… Either that or the biggest Fail-town I’ve seen in a while. I hope you continue playing man. I really do. You seem like a nice guy and all but your behavior is scummy as all hell and if it weren’t for the three way tie I’d be voting your ass right now. Either develop a better case than “Oh my god, you suck Nerjin!” or stop wasting my time with feeble attempts at defense. Please, if you’re paying attention to the thread at all, tell us your secondary scum-suspect.
Your argument against me seems to be 'Oh my god, I don't recognise you're jokes as a legitimate form of comedy Iqov, therefore a statement made in what others have noticed and publicly declared to be jest is a foolish admission of guilt which Iqov has spent the remainder of his time trying to cover up'. Rather long winded reasoning you have there.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The 'nor do I have any reason to go after any of you' was essentially my way of admitting that I really had no reads on anyone at the time. It wasn't a philosophical statement, it was sheer pragmatism.
I feel like he's scummy because he's taking the one thing he 'has' on me (a joke, as I and others have said) and just running with it like it's a football and he has a clear shot at a try.
Oh and by the way Hapah, it's fine to call me whatever. Iqov, Iqo, etc. Any reasonably obvious derivation of Iqovian is fine.
Post by: notquitethere on November 05, 2013, 09:38:02 am
Need some pom-poms to go with that cheerleading? You've had a vote parked on The_Iqovian for a while now. Are you doing anything about that or just keeping up appearances?I think it's important that town players make sure town players do their job. I've continued questioning and pressing Iqovian (as well as most other players), so my vote is hardly 'parked'.
Is your TolyK case just based on him mentioning cults and serial killers?
Tiruin
I don't trust people anymore for that, thanks to the backlash I got in that one game where I did. And that nobody believed me. And other vehement feelings caused by being attacked and ignored and all that in favor of the more 'powerful' enemy and all that.I'll take that as a 'no' then. A lot of the players (all the scum and the death shaman) had an incentive to have you lynched when you claimed, so it's not that surprising. Are you still against lynching all third parties?
No. I'd just shut up and let others die for all I care. Which would reinforce the stupid 'kill all third-parties haahahaahaha' note I was officially against. But yeah, I'll just shut up and leave you people to die in ignorance.
Spoiler: OOC on usage of 'note' (click to show/hide)
...I'll get back to you later on. I am a horrible player.Okay Tiruin, I look forward to hearing from you. Remember that replacement is still an option if you're feeling too overwhelmed. If you're town I really want to see you committing to a vote and pressing a case before the end of the day.
Nerjin
Good to see you forming reads.
I am CERTAIN that I’m confusing him with Zombie Urist for some reason. WHY!?ZU is more curt than I am.
This seems like you're trying to push him into voting me. But I think I see what you're doing as a whole and I doubt there was malicious intent behind this.Iqovian appeared to be failing to commit to a case, which struck me as dubious. Town generally need to press lynches if they want to win.
The Iqovian
You going to answer this?
It looks to me like he's trying to get rid of me - a laudable cause to be sure - but I think his motives this time are more along the lines of 'killing all the townies', than de-scumming the docks.Do you think that Nerjin has the weakest vote in the game then?
Hapah
I get what you're doing with Iq, but what's the next step if he doesn't do what you want?If through continued interaction with him he continues appearing as if he's not playing town then I'll put forth my case for everyone to judge and maybe he'll get lynched.
You say that the TolyK lynch has teeth but you're not voting. Do you plan to use your vote before the end of the day?
Deathsword— where are you?
Post by: Nerjin on November 05, 2013, 10:02:56 am
I'm a reasonably new player, I've played a few mafia games before and had decent amounts of fun.
The 'nor do I have any reason to go after any of you' was essentially my way of admitting that I really had no reads on anyone at the time. It wasn't a philosophical statement, it was sheer pragmatism.
So your plan was to sit in the corner and have a nice little cry until some other people got things done for you? No! That's not how a town player gets reads! READ THE BM'S! SITTING AROUND SUCKING YOUR DAMN THUMB AND SAYING "Oh well I'm new so I'll let the other players get reads FOR me." IS NOT TOWN DAMN-IT! GET YOUR ASS IN GEAR! IT WAS NOT SHEER PRAGMATISM! IT WAS SHEER LAZINESS!
Quote from: The Same Post
I feel like he's scummy because he's taking the one thing he 'has' on me (a joke, as I and others have said) and just running with it like it's a football and he has a clear shot at a try.
Oh and by the way Hapah, it's fine to call me whatever. Iqov, Iqo, etc. Any reasonably obvious derivation of Iqovian is fine.
Alright that's fine. I can understand that. If you legitimately think that me voting you is enough of a reason to vote me back I can dig it. Who do you go after next? If you're not just Omgusing than surely you have a second scum-suspect lined up right? But... Maybe you are just OMGUSing me and don't really plan to PLAY THE DAMN GAME unless someone votes you first. Again I will ask you a question that you ignored, even though you bolded it: WHO IS YOUR SECONDARY SCUM-PICK AFTER ME?
God damn it now I'm pissed... I'll be back later.
Post by: Nerjin on November 05, 2013, 10:04:55 am
Nerjin: Why birdy over the other 2 you were tied with? (PPE: Looks like you've detailed your reason a little more in your latest post, but I don't have the time to read it right now).
Because Birdy dodged a simple question of "Why did you ask that?" repeatedly and his reasons for this were that he "Didn't trust the intent of the post.". That seems, to me, like a horrid reason to not answer the question. I'm still more on board with Iquovian being scum right now BUT Birdy was my second pick so I was willing to wait on Iquovian to get my second pick.
@Cheetar
[My post about Birdy51]I don't think you're scum just yet. I find it suspicious but my main reasoning for voting Birdy is that he dodged a legitimate question so doggedly and then gave a poor reason for dodging it in the first place. Of the people I'm most suspicious of you're reading more Null-scum than anything else. But I'm glad you're so paranoid.
If I'm reading this correctly- you believe Birdy's rolefishing to be suspicious, and his dodging of the question for a bit to be suspicious as well. Your fixation on this is strange to me, given something else- you believe me to be scum, or at least keep strongly hinting that I'm on a scum team (your posts of 'why is he trying to defend Birdy?' 'why is he trying to defend TheIqovian?' when I question your sudden, unexplained shifts of voting and (earlier) your poor reasoning). Why, then, are you so concerned with who you believe to be a fellow scum teammate of mine (after all, you're voting for him because he's scum, right?) role fishing on me? If you actually believed he was scum and I was scum, it'd be a bit hard for you to believe he was rolefishing a fellow teammate, no?
Of course, you've never outright said that you think you've spotted a scum team. That'd make it entirely too easy to catch you later on. No, you just hint at it and leave townies to draw the conclusion, leaving yourself safe if the lies you've implied become known as falsehoods.
You keep harping on about that one thing that Iqovian has said, the joke. I find it hard to believe you earnestly think that Iqovian was saying that in all seriousness, so I'm forced to believe you're thinking one thing and saying another, and hoping nobody notices.
You say I'm doing nothing- I am pursuing you a lot! Maybe you'd like townies to think that my suspicions of you are nothing. Your lies aren't too convincing.
I do think he said it in seriousness. Maybe it was a joke but he's not really contributed much so I'm led to believe he's still waiting for an easy lynch. I'll believe he was making a joke when he puts in some more effort. So far he's only repeating things you say so I still believe him scum. You were doing nothing until my big post. Since then, yes, you have improved. I'll admit that and I'm hoping that you might try to get a read on more than just one person. Tunneling isn't helpful to town. If town decides it's time for me to go than that's fine but who do you pursue after that? Until I'm certain you actually have a legitimate secondary scum-pick I'm just led to believe you're doing what you're doing only so that people don't call you out on being lazy.
Empty-ish, with possibly useful advice. Are you running out of steam, Nerjin?
I'm not a unicorn. I can't just create things out of thin air. I need posts to analyze or else I'm stuck doing nothing.
Spoiler: Nerjin's Notquitethere analysis (click to show/hide)
Why don't you feel comfortable mentioning these 'close calls'?
Because I'm here to find scum. I'm not here to tell people "You look town but right here seems a little scummy. You should fix that in the future."
Interesting! Do you disagree with Shakerag that worry about cults or SKs (moreso than worrying about, say, mafia) is scummy? It seems to be the entirety of your analysis of him.
I think worrying about something that might not even be in the game is unproductive. Yeah there MIGHT be a cult. and there MIGHT be a serial Killer. and there MIGHT be shennannigans. However you were just answering questions so I think his vote on you is a bit premature.
"This person is definitely 100% scum because of off colour remarks and... he's scum! I won't vote him however, because I'm far more concerned voting this other person so I can get a lynch in!"
Do you think no-lynching Day 1 helps town? No, it really doesn't. All it does is give the mafia a free kill. I'm more than happy to go after my secondary scum-pick to break a tie. If trying to get town more information is scummy than I guess I'm next on the block. As I've said before it's not just the remarks [though they are a big part of it] it's also that he STILL hasn't tried to effectively scum-hunt people. All I've seen so far is an OMGUS and him repeating things you say to him.
Let's see... 7 of 12 of your reads are empty or almost completely empty. I'm not going to give you brownie points for saying 'this person hasn't said much, so I don't have anything to say about them!', nor for saying 'this person is probably town but I'm not going to say for certain'.
I'm giving my thoughts on everyone. If you don't like it... Well sucks to be you. This lets town and myself at later dates see how I viewed entire sections of the game. Saves me time on re-reads. I can't bring things out of nowhere so if people don't post I can't analyze them.
This was supposed to go above the other post.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 05, 2013, 10:45:46 am
Tunneling isn't helpful to town. If town decides it's time for me to go than that's fine but who do you pursue after that? Until I'm certain you actually have a legitimate secondary scum-pick I'm just led to believe you're doing what you're doing only so that people don't call you out on being lazy.
"Stop pressuring me, please."
Kinda sorta gonna say no here. As for people I'm also suspicious of- NQT was very odd with how defensive he got when I questioned his 'highest post count is never scum' theory, and Birdy'd be somebody to watch for the strange evasiveness about his role question. (Also, would you quit trying to imply that my suspicions of you are trivial? I mean, I get it, you're scum and have to defend yourself any way possible, but that just seems rude.)
Empty-ish, with possibly useful advice. Are you running out of steam, Nerjin?I'm not a unicorn. I can't just create things out of thin air. I need posts to analyze or else I'm stuck doing nothing.
If you don't have anything to say, don't make a point of saying "I have nothing to say here".
Spoiler: Nerjin's Notquitethere analysis (click to show/hide)
Why don't you feel comfortable mentioning these 'close calls'?
Because I'm here to find scum. I'm not here to tell people "You look town but right here seems a little scummy. You should fix that in the future."
Nerjin, you don't think questioning these scummy things will help you find scum?
Interesting! Do you disagree with Shakerag that worry about cults or SKs (moreso than worrying about, say, mafia) is scummy? It seems to be the entirety of your analysis of him.
I think worrying about something that might not even be in the game is unproductive. Yeah there MIGHT be a cult. and there MIGHT be a serial Killer. and there MIGHT be shennannigans. However you were just answering questions so I think his vote on you is a bit premature.
Guh? He's not actually voting for me! And his whole point wasn't that there might be a cult/SK- it was that Toly seemed worried about a cult/SK, as Mafia might be.
"This person is definitely 100% scum because of off colour remarks and... he's scum! I won't vote him however, because I'm far more concerned voting this other person so I can get a lynch in!"
Do you think no-lynching Day 1 helps town? No, it really doesn't. All it does is give the mafia a free kill. I'm more than happy to go after my secondary scum-pick to break a tie. If trying to get town more information is scummy than I guess I'm next on the block. As I've said before it's not just the remarks [though they are a big part of it] it's also that he STILL hasn't tried to effectively scum-hunt people. All I've seen so far is an OMGUS and him repeating things you say to him.
He could be voicing the same doubts I have because, you know, he has the same doubts I do- you're pretty scummy. I don't think no-lynching helps town, but I also don't think that you bandwagoning helps town. If it comes down to the wire (which it hasn't, with the extend), you're free to go for a second pick. Until then, try and be consistent and vote for the person you're most sure is scum (which you keep saying is Iqo).
Let's see... 7 of 12 of your reads are empty or almost completely empty. I'm not going to give you brownie points for saying 'this person hasn't said much, so I don't have anything to say about them!', nor for saying 'this person is probably town but I'm not going to say for certain'.
I'm giving my thoughts on everyone. If you don't like it... Well sucks to be you. This lets town and myself at later dates see how I viewed entire sections of the game. Saves me time on re-reads. I can't bring things out of nowhere so if people don't post I can't analyze them.
This was supposed to go above the other post.
And again, a bunch of spoilers with you saying 'not much here!' isn't useful, it's just padding out your post.
No dice with this attempt to defend yourself.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 05, 2013, 10:51:04 am
Post by: notquitethere on November 05, 2013, 11:25:10 am
Kinda sorta gonna say no here. As for people I'm also suspicious of- NQT was very odd with how defensive he got when I questioned his 'highest post count is never scum' theory.If you had this concern why didn't you raise it with me? I'm curious as to why you think defending a theory that I've expounded outside of the game is scummy. If you'll recall, I did also say not to take my word for it: look at the evidence yourself if you don't believe me.
I'm not sure what your problem with Nerjin giving his reads. They seemed quite reasonable: there was little content in a few of them because many players haven't posted. Do you think Nerjin, who appears to have paid attention to what people have done in the game and is forming reads, is scummier than, say, Deathsword who has contributed a grand total of two (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4727778#msg4727778) posts (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4736176#msg4736176) with content in the entire game?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 05, 2013, 11:59:11 am
CheeetarKinda sorta gonna say no here. As for people I'm also suspicious of- NQT was very odd with how defensive he got when I questioned his 'highest post count is never scum' theory.If you had this concern why didn't you raise it with me? I'm curious as to why you think defending a theory that I've expounded outside of the game is scummy. If you'll recall, I did also say not to take my word for it: look at the evidence yourself if you don't believe me.
I'm not sure what your problem with Nerjin giving his reads. They seemed quite reasonable: there was little content in a few of them because many players haven't posted. Do you think Nerjin, who appears to have paid attention to what people have done in the game and is forming reads, is scummier than, say, Deathsword who has contributed a grand total of two (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4727778#msg4727778) posts (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4736176#msg4736176) with content in the entire game?
Having a huge post with only a small amount of actual substance does not inspire me into thinking the person is scumhunting or town. I think Nerjin is scummier than Deathsword, but not because he's posting more. Also- I did raise this concern with you! You FoSed me for being suspicious of it, and that got me thinking you were scum.
Post by: notquitethere on November 05, 2013, 12:20:15 pm
Having a huge post with only a small amount of actual substance does not inspire me into thinking the person is scumhunting or town. I think Nerjin is scummier than Deathsword, but not because he's posting more. Also- I did raise this concern with you! You FoSed me for being suspicious of it, and that got me thinking you were scum.Uh oh, we might be in danger of talking at cross-purposes here. I FOS'd you because you seemed to be implying that you weren't town. We've been through all that. If you still have concerns why aren't you pressing me on them?
Being active is the easiest thing to fake as scum, and some people just naturally post a lot. Being inactive may be a tell, but I don't think it's wise to consider being very active a town tell.You've got twice as many posts as the second highest poster. Are you trying to tell us all something. Cheeetar?
Post by: Shakerag on November 05, 2013, 01:17:29 pm
By chainsawing I mean that you are attacking Nerjin to defend The_Iqovian because the latter is your scumbuddy. I don't think you had a strong reason to go after Nerjin other than to lower pressure on The_Iqovian. Nerjin's vote on T_I looks more like a pressure/reaction vote, and your jumping on Nerjin about it seemed disproportionate. (And Nerjin comments on this in the following post.) (PPE: Okay, Imp jumped in on this one.)Extend.
Cheeetar@179: Why are you chainsawing Nerjin so hard? It looks like his vote on The Iqovian is a pressure/reaction vote to me. Also, nice lowball there @205. You know you can just give advice to your scumbuddy in scumchat, right?
By chainsawing I assume you mean pressuring, or? I honestly don't know what you mean by it. Anyway, he posted suspiciously and hasn't explained himself fully, and his only response to the suspicions against him has been changing his vote in the hopes that it'll stop people voting for him or something?
Alright, phew.What, in particular, are you relieved about here?
The sad thing is that your case against him could be completely destroyed if Iqovian could be bothered actually defending himself, instead of acting as uncertainly as he has. Have more confidence in yourself, Iqovian!What. The. Fuck.
Nerjin:
From what I have seen, and from what I understand, scum tends to be more concerned about third parties than town does, as they can be a bigger threat to scum than town. Plus, I *think* there are a number of third parties that actively inhibit scum's win condition, so scum will tend toward wanting to root out third parties over "scum" during the day. Since TolyK mentioned third parties first as "things we should be looking out for", that set off a few bells.Spoiler: @Shakerag (click to show/hide)
For you: If one of your claimed reasons for jumping on The_Iqovian was heavy lurking, why haven't you come down on Deathsword (or anyone else without Real Life excuses) as hard?
Hapah:
Shake: Just to make sure I've got this straight; your reasoning for voting Tolyk is contained in this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4733377#msg4733377) post, right?Largely, yes. My next post after that one called into question his choice of words.
NQT:
ShakeragSee my reply to Hapah above.Need some pom-poms to go with that cheerleading? You've had a vote parked on The_Iqovian for a while now. Are you doing anything about that or just keeping up appearances?I think it's important that town players make sure town players do their job. I've continued questioning and pressing Iqovian (as well as most other players), so my vote is hardly 'parked'.
Is your TolyK case just based on him mentioning cults and serial killers?
Also, so you suddenly know that The_Iqovian is town, eh? How can you be so sure that he's town to ensure he's "doing his job"?
So is your vote on The_Iqovian a lynch vote or a pressure vote? Because it seems like your attention is mostly elsewhere rather than on your vote target.
TolyK:
Going to pretend to do any scumhunting over there? I'm sorry that you "don't like asking many questions", but you could at least try to fake it to make yourself look less like a giant roadside scum attraction. Or are you too busy worrying about third parties in scumchat?
Post by: TolyK on November 05, 2013, 01:41:08 pm
TolyK:It would be better if I didn't waste your time, but it is what it is, from your point of view. I don't consider it a waste of time, and I hope you don't either, in the end.I find it interesting that you chose to make note about there likely being another SK or cult first in your reply. Makes me think that those things are in the front of your mind. Which is something that scum would be worried about. And just because you may or may not have a plan on D1, doesn't mean that you wouldn't be worried about roles that could throw a wrench in your plans later.TolyK:I'm not quite sure (pun not intended... >.>) how you came to that conclusion. I was asked a question for "really common things" to look out for, so I answered to my knowledge. Even if I were scum, I don't think I would have any overarching plans on D1, and I'd be more worried about a cop or something ruining my plans.Worried about another SK? Worried about a cult? Worried about something ruining your plans? Hi scum.TolyK— you've played a lot of role heavy games right? Are there any really common things we should be looking out for?Well, considering it's a WUBA game, there's likely "another" SK, since he modkilled one instantly, or a cult.
Common things? Don't say everything you know instantly, and always always always check facts with your facts.
And there's always gonna be this crazy jig that ruins a lot of stuff in BYOR's. See: BYO Cards, where my Auto ability gave me a day to myself.
But the main thing is, does my answering that way mean that I'm worried about something?Possibly? You *hope* not? Waffle around a bit more, scumbag.TolyK:Possibly, but I hope not.
TolyK has been putting on a show for us!
...
To hide that he's doing absolutely nothing but wasting his time and ours.
@TolyK
He active-lurks. That was my whole thing against him. He’d not said much to anyone but those he didn’t know. I guess the rest of us weren’t important.I don't hear much about passivity finding Scum. Could you offer some links to help me find where passive play has been used effectively to assist and ensure Town wins?This is really painting yourself as town. As in, this is like saying "I'm town", except "Help me work for the town's cause".
It makes you look as if you're trying to make yourself look like a fluffy bunny that's asking for help.
Don't you agree?
Not at all. What she asked was "When has passivity helped town?" and you say that she's trying to make herself look innocent and weak? No. You dodged a question. Answer it or admit that passivity doesn't help town.I'm sorry if that's wasting your time, however it's mostly you who "wasted" it. It was never my intention to "promise a Broadway show", I was stating what I was going to do. Can you concisely state your case on me, please? And don't try to tack on unrelated things such as rolefishing, which there is no hint of in any of my posts. Thanks.
You dodging the question she asked you and active lurking aren't wasting time? Sorry. I thought they were. Because they are.
Summary: Lurk, lurk, lurk, don’t answer questions. He has a reason for it I’ll admit but I hope he makes actual use of the extension. If not then he’s going to gain some serious suspicion from me.
Actually, I've said more to the people I don't know, as far as I know. o.0
Dodged a question? No, I don't have any links on me, nor do I have time to follow them up. This was how I read it, so that's how I responded.
Wait, dodging what other question? This one?
Quote
Have you had enough pings yet? Have you had enough of wasting time yet, both yours and ours?Is this a question that should be seriously answered? Really?
And unfortunately, it turns out that answering questions is almost all I have time for atm.
I still don't see the fact that I answered "what too look out for" with stuff that I think is quite possible means that I am worried about those roles existing.Spoiler: Tolyk (click to show/hide)
The only one that really looks like it might have teeth is the bits pointing at Tolyk. The others seem like forgotten RVS votes or votes to try to spur people into action.
Re:Summary of case on TolyK:Sorta. People asked for my advice in the beginning, so I gave it. Might not be very good advice, though, I can't guarantee.Your vote here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4734875#msg4734875)... I don't get it. The theatrics are nice, but they lack a conclusion.Can you concisely state your case on me, please?Imp: Yeah ... can you give me a tl;dr about your case on TolyK? There's a lot of fluff there. [PPE: I see Toaster made the same observation.]
TolyK's been 'interpretive dancing', and not even doing the 'interpretive Scumhunting dance' which might be useful. Almost every post he has made appears to me to be a stylistic form of active lurking.
His first post he says,I won't ask any real questions yetHe asks the one question to three people, then does almost nothing since except answer others' questions and jerk his one question around like it's a magic key. Always hyping it, nearly every post he makes it the target of focus and constantly refers back to it. 'Does things with it', like analyze those three responses on the most obvious level possible and . If this is Scumhunting, he's doing it like an anglerfish hunts - and I'm by no means convinced that he's doing that either. His show appears not to be -that- kind of show, and I fail to see how he's trying to lure anyone into exposing anything - instead it has the feel of illusion, and aggrandization, an attempt to industriously hide his lack of interest in Scumhunting by doing something else that he is able to feel enthusastic about - creating and playing this multistaged game of his.
It's something he can pour energy into and make it look like he's doing something every time he hypes again; it attempts to hide his lack of back and forth interaction with anyone but us (he briefly answers questions, then puts focus back on his question). He's identified us as newer players, he's most recently started 'coaching'.
Quote from: Imp
Nah, I'm just analyzing your play, as you said yourself, in my own kind of way.TolyK:You're all basically doing stuff I did when I was newer - going with the "I'm innocent, so why is what I say scummy?", "Lets help the town", "Oh crap someone said something about me it must be serious" (in order). Thus, I'm fairly sure you're all town, because I haven't found anything damning your case yet. However, I'll be looking for the time being.
I'm not quite following you with this one… Would you care to expound why you clump us all together?
Think of this as me testing you as a group.
I think this is his excuse to 'dance' through the game and hide his lack of focus on finding Scum, because he's 'to busy' to lift his eyes from the three newish (ahh, weakness, smell the blood in the air? Rare is the newbie who can defend themself effectively) players that he's 'busying himself with'.
Quote from: Imp
TolyK:Nope, though that's certainly possible.
Were you aware that you asked more questions in response to my challenge to you than you've asked the entire game before that point?
Quote from: Imp
Added bolding for emphasis:I'm not sure, to be honest. I think I'm equally interested both ways, but it takes more effort to play as scum.The first question asks you if your engagement - how you are playing the game, and where your focus is - is the same when you 'want to play more as Scum' as you are when you 'want to play less as Town'.Quote from: ImpI... don't quite understand the first question.I think Cheetar, Imp, TolyK and you are the most engaged in the game and this is usually a good proxy for town. I found Cheetar a bit too passive at the beginning but he's done a fairly good job of explaining where he's coming from....
I'm usually even more wanting to play the game as scum, though, since that's rarer. So I don't quite agree with your logic.
Oh, but how you engage, would you say that's the same? How can you have so much energy to put into building intricate riddles through multiple players' posts and keep up your Scumhunting too? Oh, right. You're playing your own game instead of Scumhunting. I see it now, thanks!
Quote from: Imp
This (role fishing) still is a false accusation, and you know it. The term you're describing is "target hunting", though it doesn't apply as well, unfortunately.Quote from: ImpRole fishing? Seriously? You are trying so hard to "prove my guilt" that you are trying to tack everything even slightly related to it?Nope. Sincere question, I meant every word I said. Happens I'm a newbie, this is my third game. The first two haven't ended yet; when you look at my ears that's not length you see; they're still wet.I don't hear much about passivity finding Scum. Could you offer some links to help me find where passive play has been used effectively to assist and ensure Town wins?This is really painting yourself as town. As in, this is like saying "I'm town", except "Help me work for the town's cause".
It makes you look as if you're trying to make yourself look like a fluffy bunny that's asking for help.
Don't you agree?
None the less, if I am a rabbit you role fisher, you'd best consider me the Monty Python version, at least to Scum like yourself. Beware the cute ones (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KillerRabbit).
Nope. It's not for me to prove your guilt, or innocence. That's for you. Granted, you're showing a heck of a lot of Scumminess - what I'm really doing here is pointedly 'failing the interview (http://www.swprn.com/blog/fail-the-interview/)'. It looks a lot to me like you're sniffing around for a good target - someone (or a few someones) to chuck stuff at to support your current and future active lurking activities. One that's "a fluffy bunny" would do just fine, you seem to be saying. I am not one. I expect that I've made that clear - if not, keep sniffing. I'll make it a lot clearer if needed.
Quote from: Imp
And unfortunately, your victim-interviewing behavior is NOT tacked on. It's part and parcel of the active lurking you've done since your first post of the game.Nope, I haven't, thank you.*post**other post*Neat. There's something here, but I don't have the time to look at it right now. Ping me later in case I forget.
Ping. Ping.
Have you had enough time yet?
Have you had enough time to stop active lurking, or will you ever, this game?
Your whole argument, basically:
- My style of asking people questions, analyzing posts and such is disagreeable.
- Moreover, I haven't been asking many questions at all, due to low activity.
- And I haven't been answering the semi-rhetorical questions asked, either.
- I replied about a possible serial killer and/or cult once, in reply to a question of "what should we look out for?".
In fact, if I start "scum hunting" by your definition, your main argument falls through, right? But I've spent well over an hour answering questions (which you say I don't answer) instead of reading any of the other posts.
But if I start "scum hunting" by your definition, then it will look like I'm freaking out and trying to save my ass, right? Basically, no choice?
Well, shiver me timbers, I guess I ain't got no choice!
PPE:
Quote from: Shakerag
TolyK:
Going to pretend to do any scumhunting over there? I'm sorry that you "don't like asking many questions", but you could at least try to fake it to make yourself look less like a giant roadside scum attraction. Or are you too busy worrying about third parties in scumchat?
From what I have seen, and from what I understand, scum tends to be more concerned about third parties than town does, as they can be a bigger threat to scum than town. Plus, I *think* there are a number of third parties that actively inhibit scum's win condition, so scum will tend toward wanting to root out third parties over "scum" during the day. Since TolyK mentioned third parties first as "things we should be looking out for", that set off a few bells.Wait, is that it? Your whole argument?
You say you aren't concerned about yet another killer in the game? Or do you think scum doesn't want more townies dead for free?
I think your reaction would've been about the same if I had mentioned it last, since I think you might possibly be one of those same people worried about cults being mentioned.
What do you say? A giant roadside scum attraction? You mean, thing that attracts scum? Possibly, I'll keep that in mind, thanks Shakerag.
PPPE: What's the point of re-asking me questions?
Post by: Nerjin on November 05, 2013, 01:47:49 pm
I don't hear much about passivity finding Scum. Could you offer some links to help me find where passive play has been used effectively to assist and ensure Town wins?
Actually, I've said more to the people I don't know, as far as I know. o.0
Dodged a question? No, I don't have any links on me, nor do I have time to follow them up. This was how I read it, so that's how I responded.
[/quote]
Hows about now. Do you see the question you never actually answered now? She asked that question and your response was not "It doesn't help town." or "It has helped town in such and such case." Your response was "Oh, you're trying to make yourself look helpless and get others to do the work for you.
Post by: birdy51 on November 05, 2013, 01:56:44 pm
My will to play this game is absolutely dead right now. Right now, I am performing a disservice by sticking around, as I am honestly in no mood nor the right mindset to be playing right now. Simply put, my presence is not helping anything.
I will make an attempt to respond to any and all questions that have been leveled against me, but after that I cannot continue and I will ask for a replacement. Sorry for any inconvenience in advance.
Post by: birdy51 on November 05, 2013, 04:21:46 pm
TWS:
Birdy:You can make an accusation against me, but if it's weak you better as hell, you'd best understand that I will press you on it. To defend one selves honor is just as important as infiltrating and finding the traitorous scum who would kill us in the night. Further, when one strikes lazily with a sword in the daylight, you don't stand there and let it cut you, like a coward might. Nay, you parry and strike a stinging blow in return!O_o I can tell you were watching Zorro.
But anyway, of course you can defend yourself. But defending yourself doesn't necessarily mean voting the other person, does it?
And can you please answer this question:I was scumhunting. What made you mistrust my intentions?
In this case, I wanted to apply pressure to you, and check your own intentions.
The accusation that I was rolefishing was completely and utterly stupid. Yet, you still defended it. That is why I distrusted your intentions. The only reason I don't think you are scum now, is because you bothered to rebuff Cheeetar for half-assedly supporting the bandwagon.
More later.
Birdy: You haven't responded to this post. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4738842#msg4738842)
I know I promised more, but I really can't right now.
Get off your ass and actually do something different. You've fixated on me over half week. Find a new obsession and stop kicking a dog while it's down.
Summary of Events from my Corner.
- TWS makes rolefishing accusation. Asks why I asked that question
- I refuse to answer said question, instead countering why he thinks I am rolefishing.
- He answers, keeping his vote there for the purpose that I dodged his question.
- I reply to his first question, stating that I had asked the question out of curiosity.
- Incessant bickering henceforth.
Imp:
Toaster and Birdy:What you're looking for is the Too Townie (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Too_Townie) fallacy. It doesn't fly.
Thanks Toaster. I was aware of that fallacy and wonder at how close our newbie games' Common Scumtells comes to it:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
But I hadn't connected it to play in Lylo. Birdy, was that what you were trying to find, or were you looking for something else?
Birdy, when you ask Nerjin this:why the late extension vote nearly three hours later?
You made me look closer at the extensions:4 of 7 to Extend.Need more extensions, please!Alright, I'm willing to play along here. Extend you people not voting better get in gear.
That doesn't look weird to me. When I look at the time that Nerjin posts his extension and three hours earlier - that's a 'deadtime', there's no posts at all there.
What makes Nerjin's extension vote late, and what is it three hours later than?
That was unfortunately not the link I was looking for. At this point, I'm wondering if I've just become absolutely crazy and I had imagined it existed.
Now, as for the extension. It's odd to me, because if I was scum that is exactly something I might do. When I throw out mid - extension votes as scum, chances are I really don't want the extension to pass. I'm willing to pretend that I want extensions as generally having more talking time is Townie thing to do.
Now, before someone claims that I just shot myself in foot, I would not have initiated an extension vote unless I felt like we needed the extra time.
Cheeetar:
I know you asked me this somewhere but I cannot remember. No, it was not my goal to accrue a lot of attention. However, even if I do happen to die, my death can still be used to help the Town. Dying has a way of proving and solidifying people's intentions. Death proves innocence, thus it calls into question why people are voting who. It gives people something to read off of.
If that's what this game needs to finally get going, then hell yeah.
I am almost certain that I missed questions somewhere, so if there any finals questions shoot them at me. There is one last piece of business that I want to stick around for, as I've been waiting all Day for this. Quite literally, all Day.
NQT:
Normally, you are pretty damn studious my friend. Yet, you've yet realize that you were the only person that I didn't address an RVS question to.
In fact, I've only actually been in contact with you once, and that was because you asked me a question. What gives?
Post by: Teneb on November 05, 2013, 04:45:01 pm
Deathsword:I'll redirect anyone I feel is scummy. Preferrably to another person I also find scummy.What do you look for when deciding where to place a redirect?Deathsword: Pretend your only night-useable ability allowed you to choose to either block someone (both from receiving or taking actions) or to redirect someone (again, that redirection applies both to actions targeting that player, and to actions that player tries to make). Which would you probably use more often, and why?Redirect. I really like redirects and it can, if used right or with enough luck, destroy the plans of scum or third party.
Birdy's assessment of Toaster seems wierd, somehow. Especially his insistant claim that he feels Toaster is town. That implies he has knowledge that others do not. There is also the matter of him dodging questions, as you pointed out. As for activity, it'll increase from now on. (I know I don't have the best record when it comes to this, but I'm attempting to change that)[/quote]Spoiler: @Deathsword (click to show/hide)
Forgive me, but this seems a rather lazy brand of argument. You haven't even followed up on my responses. Otherwise, you might have noted that my claim is hardly insisting that Toaster is town. Also, I dodged "a" question, not "questions" as you might imply. Further, I have since justified said dodge, as I wanted to know why he asked the question in the first place. I realize that you are busy, but come now. Your attempt to justify what is essentially an RVS vote is doing you little favors.
A good game of Mafia cannot run on idle wheels.
[/quote]
You repeatedly dodged that question. Which I guess is worse. An RVS vote may turn into a lynch vote, as you are very well aware, if the voter feels that the votee has acted in a scummy way.
Your behaviour at RVS (saying you really believed Toaster to be town, implying you have information most other players do not) is still, to me, very scummy.
Deathsword— where are you?At the time of your post I was in a very boring class. Right now I am posting.
Cheeetar, Nerjin makes some very valid points. His (Iqovian's) "shifting blame" post was quite odd, and we only have his word that it was a joke. I did not see it as one, and it is pretty valid to think that he may be attempting to cover it up. You also ignore that the Iqovian has been extremely reactive, going only after Nerjin, who attacked him. The Iqovian appears to be merely content to deflect Nerjin's accusations with snark while you chainsaw.Spoiler: Nerjin's TheIquovian analysis (click to show/hide)
"This person is definitely 100% scum because of off colour remarks and... he's scum! I won't vote him however, because I'm far more concerned voting this other person so I can get a lynch in!"
The sad thing is that your case against him could be completely destroyed if Iqovian could be bothered actually defending himself, instead of acting as uncertainly as he has. Have more confidence in yourself, Iqovian!
Iqovian is my second pick to scum, mostly because you, Cheeetar, insist on defending him at every turn.
Here's a question for you, Cheeetar, were I to, in my first post (not as an answer to any questions, but spontaneously), claim that I would kill whomever was the most active during the day, and, later, when called out on it, claim it was a joke, believe that it was indeed a joke, or merely me trying to cover a slip?
Post by: Shakerag on November 05, 2013, 05:21:01 pm
Wait, is that it? Your whole argument?Woah woah woah. Stop right there. Let me get my boots on before I respond because the bullshit is getting thick all of a sudden.
You say you aren't concerned about yet another killer in the game? Or do you think scum doesn't want more townies dead for free?
I think your reaction would've been about the same if I had mentioned it last, since I think you might possibly be one of those same people worried about cults being mentioned.
What do you say? A giant roadside scum attraction? You mean, thing that attracts scum? Possibly, I'll keep that in mind, thanks Shakerag.
At no point did I say that I wasn't concerned about "another killer in the game". If there is one, then absolutely I'd be concerned about that. But I don't know that there is, and I have no evidence that there is. So my main focus is on hunting scum which I quite reasonably assume is present, until something crazy proves otherwise.
And now you're OMGUSing* me over ... what?
Call me crazy, but someone who has had some pretty passive play so far, become defensive to pressuring, and is intentionally twisting what I've said around in order to try and throw suspicion back on me ... is scum.
*(yes, yes, I know there's no vote there. I think the concept stands though.)
Post by: Cheeetar on November 05, 2013, 09:35:45 pm
Cheeetar:By chainsawing I assume you mean pressuring, or? I honestly don't know what you mean by it. Anyway, he posted suspiciously and hasn't explained himself fully, and his only response to the suspicions against him has been changing his vote in the hopes that it'll stop people voting for him or something?By chainsawing I mean that you are attacking Nerjin to defend The_Iqovian because the latter is your scumbuddy. I don't think you had a strong reason to go after Nerjin other than to lower pressure on The_Iqovian. Nerjin's vote on T_I looks more like a pressure/reaction vote, and your jumping on Nerjin about it seemed disproportionate. (And Nerjin comments on this in the following post.) (PPE: Okay, Imp jumped in on this one.)
Yeah, somebody else cleared that up for me. I think Nerjin's reasoning was very faulty, so I voted for him. The fact that Nerjin is saying stuff like '100% sure that Iqo is scum' makes me think that maybe his vote for him wasn't just a pressure vote.
Alright, phew.What, in particular, are you relieved about here?
Having an extension so we don't lynch a person with 3 of 13 people voting for them. A lynch with a hammer means much more material to scrutinise in the day following.
The sad thing is that your case against him could be completely destroyed if Iqovian could be bothered actually defending himself, instead of acting as uncertainly as he has. Have more confidence in yourself, Iqovian!What. The. Fuck.
What's up?
Hows about now. Do you see the question you never actually answered now? She asked that question and your response was not "It doesn't help town." or "It has helped town in such and such case." Your response was "Oh, you're trying to make yourself look helpless and get others to do the work for you.
Nerjin, Imp was asking me that question, not Toly. I'm beginning to think you may have a posting restriction.
Cheeetar, Nerjin makes some very valid points. His (Iqovian's) "shifting blame" post was quite odd, and we only have his word that it was a joke. I did not see it as one, and it is pretty valid to think that he may be attempting to cover it up. You also ignore that the Iqovian has been extremely reactive, going only after Nerjin, who attacked him. The Iqovian appears to be merely content to deflect Nerjin's accusations with snark while you chainsaw.
Iqovian is my second pick to scum, mostly because you, Cheeetar, insist on defending him at every turn.
Here's a question for you, Cheeetar, were I to, in my first post (not as an answer to any questions, but spontaneously), claim that I would kill whomever was the most active during the day, and, later, when called out on it, claim it was a joke, believe that it was indeed a joke, or merely me trying to cover a slip?
It depends- did it look like a joke to me? If I said in my first post of the game on Day 1, that I was mainly concerned with avoiding suspicion during the day so I could mafiakill as many people as possible during the night, do you think that would be a joke or did I somehow forget that if I were mafia I shouldn't be saying things like that? As your third post, I'm finding this very lacking, Deathsword. Here's a question for you: You think a scummy thing about Iqo is how passive and inactive he's being in the face of these accusations- do you think your inactivity is as scummy, or not?
Post by: Toaster on November 05, 2013, 09:44:40 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on November 05, 2013, 09:49:06 pm
Having a huge post with only a small amount of actual substance does not inspire me into thinking the person is scumhunting or town. I think Nerjin is scummier than Deathsword, but not because he's posting more. Also- I did raise this concern with you! You FoSed me for being suspicious of it, and that got me thinking you were scum.Uh oh, we might be in danger of talking at cross-purposes here. I FOS'd you because you seemed to be implying that you weren't town. We've been through all that. If you still have concerns why aren't you pressing me on them?Being active is the easiest thing to fake as scum, and some people just naturally post a lot. Being inactive may be a tell, but I don't think it's wise to consider being very active a town tell.You've got twice as many posts as the second highest poster. Are you trying to tell us all something. Cheeetar?
No, I was implying that I didn't believe your theory, and if you misread what I was saying so much then I'm not really sure what to do. It seemed like you took my very reasonable criticism (it's actually super easy to post a lot!) and then said 'but if you're questioning my post, and you have high posts as well... why, you couldn't possibly value being honest over appearing as town!'
Only non-town should be more concerned with appearances than speaking their minds.
Post by: Hapah on November 06, 2013, 12:15:22 am
Quote from: Cheetar
I don't understand what you're asking here.No question; just wasn't sure if I'd gotten the reason behind the vote correct.
Quote from: Cheetar
That aint me, yo.
Quote from: Imp
Nope, quote's from TheWetSheep, same post as the correct quote right above it.Whoops! Pasted in the text but closed the tab before I got the author. Sorry about that.
Quote from: Imp
Hapah: Pretty early in the game you asked a question about what one could learn about playing Mafia without playing the game. Have you found that the skills and ways of thinking that you use for Mafia are pretty useless and really different from what you use in the other parts of your life?I'll answer, but I'd love to know what you hoped to learn from my response. Most of my real life skills translate into Mafia okay, but not much of my Mafia-specific stuff translates out to my real life, if that makes any sense. It's mostly because in Mafia you have to be extremely cynical and critical, always looking for the deception, always trying to determine motives behind actions (which is the one thing that's really bled out into my real life, on reflection). I'm simply not that kind of person most of the time, but you have to have that mindset when you're in the game.
Quote from: NQT
You say that the TolyK lynch has teeth but you're not voting. Do you plan to use your vote before the end of the day?I say that because Tolyk's was the only one that had some sort of reasoning behind it, to me. The rest looked like RVS and pressure votes that had been forgotten.
Shake
Hapah:Shake: Just to make sure I've got this straight; your reasoning for voting Tolyk is contained in this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4733377#msg4733377) post, right?Largely, yes. My next post after that one called into question his choice of words.
Quote from: The Next Shake Post
I find it interesting that you chose to make note about there likely being another SK or cult first in your reply. Makes me think that those things are in the front of your mind. Which is something that scum would be worried about. And just because you may or may not have a plan on D1, doesn't mean that you wouldn't be worried about roles that could throw a wrench in your plans later.What would you consider an acceptable response to the question, then? If he'd switched the 1st and 3rd lines would you have a problem with it? That's such a minor, minor detail to get hung up on.
His reply seems earnest to me, as BYOR's do typically contain all those things (multiple 3rd parties, extremely powerful/game-altering roles, and counterbalanced roles which means staying quiet on some abilities is a good idea). Do you have any issue with the content, or just the order of things?
Quote from: TolyK
I still don't see the fact that I answered "what too look out for" with stuff that I think is quite possible means that I am worried about those roles existing.Oh no, I'm with you on that; I just spoke poorly. The votes on the other 3 players that were tied with you seemed to be more coincidences than cases; only yours looks like the accusers had anything at all to go on.
Post by: The_Iqovian on November 06, 2013, 04:23:33 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm not voting for you because you are voting for me. I'm voting for you because of why you're going after me; again, I feel like your argument is based on my opening post (which, I repeat was jocular) being very scummy, and that the way you've followed up on this is rather scummy yourself.
Firstly, I'm pretty sure you bolded that, secondly, it was Birdy until they left, which kinda leaves that post empty now. I'm not really sure who my third scum-pick is though.
Post by: notquitethere on November 06, 2013, 08:36:48 am
Birdy
Normally, you are pretty damn studious my friend. Yet, you've yet realize that you were the only person that I didn't address an RVS question to.I pressed you for inactivity here:
In fact, I've only actually been in contact with you once, and that was because you asked me a question. What gives?
Toaster, Tiruin, Hapah, Birdy, TolyK—
The lynch vote is the weapon of town, without it we can't win. It's getting pretty close to the end of the day: are you going to use your vote?
And I've been waitijng for you to get online. My time is a bit more constrained in general (I'm doing Nanowrimo and I'm active in another game) and full analysis with this many players takes hours, so I'll try and squeeze it in before the end of the day or, more likely at this stage, present a full analysis of Day 1 on Day 2, taking into account who pressed for what lynch etc.
We're none of us getting younger. Have you still not voted or did I miss it?
Shakerag
Also, so you suddenly know that The_Iqovian is town, eh? How can you be so sure that he's town to ensure he's "doing his job"?Sorry what? I don't know if Iqovian is town or not. I try to get everyone to do their job as town and if they fail in this then they present themselves as lynch candidates. I don't want to end up lynching town players just because they weren't giving much effort.
So is your vote on The_Iqovian a lynch vote or a pressure vote? Because it seems like your attention is mostly elsewhere rather than on your vote target.It's a false dichotomy: there's a sliding scale. I want Iqovian to respond and if he doesn't and he continues to act scummily then I'll present an open case and move to get him lynched. He still hasn't responded so I'll continue to press him to respond. I'm more than capable of conversing with other people at the same time.
The Iqovian
Until I get a reply there's little possibility of my vote going anywhere else:
It looks to me like he's trying to get rid of me - a laudable cause to be sure - but I think his motives this time are more along the lines of 'killing all the townies', than de-scumming the docks.Do you think that Nerjin has the weakest vote in the game then?
Do you even have a case?
Post by: Toaster on November 06, 2013, 11:45:39 am
Speaking of Imp, what kind of read are you getting on her so far?
Her case on TolyK is a lot of show and not much substance. Odd, but no hard scum read from that. My read is "keep an eye on her."
Toaster, Tiruin, Hapah, Birdy, TolyK—
The lynch vote is the weapon of town, without it we can't win. It's getting pretty close to the end of the day: are you going to use your vote?
Yes.
Nerjin: Derp, I did miss your answer to that question. A herp and a derp.
In this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4741877#msg4741877), you state your reason for voting Birdy:
My reasons for suspicion on Birdy51 at the time were based primarily on the fact that he never answered the question “Why did you ask Cheetar if he was satisfied with his role?” instead of simply answering the question he got very defensive. Now onto his new posts to see if anything has changed:
Fair enough. Then you go on to describe Iqovan:
Summary: Scum scum scum scum scum… Either that or the biggest Fail-town I’ve seen in a while. I hope you continue playing man. I really do. You seem like a nice guy and all but your behavior is scummy as all hell and if it weren’t for the three way tie I’d be voting your ass right now. Either develop a better case than “Oh my god, you suck Nerjin!” or stop wasting my time with feeble attempts at defense. Please, if you’re paying attention to the thread at all, tell us your secondary scum-suspect.
So... why are you voting Birdy over him?
Man, did I seriously attract that few questions? I must be boring.
In any case, that was a catchup post; next is reviewing everything and exercising my democratic right to vote.
Post by: Nerjin on November 06, 2013, 01:20:45 pm
So... why are you voting Birdy over [The_Iquovian]?
Because there was a three way tie between Myself, Birdy, and Iquovian. My vote, being on Iqovian, was better served going to Birdy my second scum-pick. I'm fairly confident about both of them and a no-lynch doesn't help town at all. As I've said before, it's a matter of pragmatism. Sure I'd LIKE to be voting Iquovian, but for now my vote is more helpful to town while on Birdy.
Post by: Shakerag on November 06, 2013, 01:37:02 pm
Why do you feel the need to be Iqo's guardian and cheerleader?The sad thing is that your case against him could be completely destroyed if Iqovian could be bothered actually defending himself, instead of acting as uncertainly as he has. Have more confidence in yourself, Iqovian!What. The. Fuck.
What's up?
Hapah:
ShakeFirst, my bit about his choice of words refered to this exchange:Hapah:Shake: Just to make sure I've got this straight; your reasoning for voting Tolyk is contained in this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4733377#msg4733377) post, right?Largely, yes. My next post after that one called into question his choice of words.Quote from: The Next Shake PostI find it interesting that you chose to make note about there likely being another SK or cult first in your reply. Makes me think that those things are in the front of your mind. Which is something that scum would be worried about. And just because you may or may not have a plan on D1, doesn't mean that you wouldn't be worried about roles that could throw a wrench in your plans later.What would you consider an acceptable response to the question, then? If he'd switched the 1st and 3rd lines would you have a problem with it? That's such a minor, minor detail to get hung up on.
His reply seems earnest to me, as BYOR's do typically contain all those things (multiple 3rd parties, extremely powerful/game-altering roles, and counterbalanced roles which means staying quiet on some abilities is a good idea). Do you have any issue with the content, or just the order of things?
That seemed awfully wishy-washy to me. Can't he be confident at all about what he's presenting to the rest of us? If TolyK doesn't even have faith in what he's saying, what are the rest of us going to think?TolyK:Possibly, but I hope not.
TolyK has been putting on a show for us!
...
To hide that he's doing absolutely nothing but wasting his time and ours.
So to specifically answer your question, if he had switched lines around would I have a problem? No. I don't have a problem with his response to NQT's question at all.
I would think it would have been obvious, but the whole deal about whether he mentioned cults and SKs first or last was just an opportunity to put some pressure on him to see how he'd react. Did I, at the time, think he was decidely scum for mentioning cults/SKs first? No, that's silly. But it was an excellent chance to pressure him about it and see how he'd react. And he reacted very, very poorly.
If TolyK had just blown me off, given a decent reason, or even just kept a level head about it all I would have just moved on. But he got defensive and even went so far as to try and twist my words into something I didn't even allude to in order to try and put suspicion on me and get me to back off. That is why I think he's scum.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 02:11:09 pm
Cheeetar:Why do you feel the need to be Iqo's guardian and cheerleader?The sad thing is that your case against him could be completely destroyed if Iqovian could be bothered actually defending himself, instead of acting as uncertainly as he has. Have more confidence in yourself, Iqovian!What. The. Fuck.
What's up?
I'm not being a guardian- Nerjin was being legitimately scummy in the way he confirmed Iqo as '100% scum'. Encouraging Iqo to post more, however, is something I'm comfortable owning up to.
Nerjin, you're answering other people's questions- could I have a response to my most recent post on you, or really any reason to not vote for you? You still supposedly take Iqo's joke to be rock solid proof that he's scum, and even though we're in an extension you're voting Birdy over him?
Post by: Nerjin on November 06, 2013, 02:38:08 pm
Quote from: Cheetar's Most Recent Post
Nerjin, you're answering other people's questions- could I have a response to my most recent post on you, or really any reason to not vote you? You still supposedly take Iqo's joke to be rock solid proof that he's scum, and even though we're in an extension you're voting Birdy over him?
Firstly, sorry for the way I have to quote you. My internet is being a dick right now.
No, I won't answer your questions. You're obviously not reading the things I say except as far as it takes you to trump up some false charge on me. I've stated MULTIPLE times that I'm voting Birdy51 to avoid a tie. As of last vote count Iqovian has 2 votes [one was mine] and Birdy had 2 votes. So I broke the tie. I switched my vote from My #1 scum pick to my #2 scum pick to insure that we wouldn't have wasted a fuck ton of time on day 1. If day 1 ends in a no lynch we learn NOTHING!
As for reasons not to vote me? I don't care what you think. You've made up your mind that I'm scum. I have more important things to do than to make sure every single other player thinks I'm scum. Especially when said player refuses to make any attempt at seeing the truth that claiming something was a joke after the fact doesn't make it a joke.
I hope you get raped with a knife.
[Tons of posts later after saying it and several of my own posts later]
I was just kidding guys. Gosh. Why do you take things so seriously!
See why I might not believe him? Has it occured to you that he could EASILY, and I mean really easily, be fake-claiming that it was a joke? No, I don't buy it was a joke. His play after the joke might have convinced me but it hasn't. He's played poorly and hasn't scum-hunted anyone other than, surprise, the guy voting him [if you could call an OMGUS scum-hunting]. He's done NOTHING to convince me that he isn't scum and yet circumstances force me to use my vote on Birdy.
Post by: Imp on November 06, 2013, 02:42:08 pm
Cheeetar, do you feel more protective towards The_Iqovian than you do most other players?
I'd be happier if he turned out to be town than scum, and I'd be glad if he started playing earnestly (he's been somewhat busy in real life, as have a few other people in this game)- that's not my reason for attacking Nerjin, though. If Iqovian does start acting legitimately scummy I'll vote for and pressure him- it might seem that I'm letting him off easy, but I know his style of writing a bit more than other people do.
Do you feel differently, and more strongly, about The_Iqovian than you do most other players? There appears to be a connection between you, more one from you to him than from one from him to you.
I'm seriously time pressed so no hunting for links atm, but others have asked you about defending him and also about advising him. For my own eyes, as I've looked over play, you do appear to respond to and react to him a bit differently than the rest of us. I'm not sure what I'm seeing is Scummy, but if you could explain what that reaction you have is/comes from I could use it as part of my reasoning as to what I see means.
If you really need links to know what I'm asking about say so, and I'll put extra time into finding them asap.
The_Iqovian:
I'm a reasonably new player, I've played a few mafia games before and had decent amounts of fun.
The 'nor do I have any reason to go after any of you' was essentially my way of admitting that I really had no reads on anyone at the time. It wasn't a philosophical statement, it was sheer pragmatism.
I feel like he's scummy because he's taking the one thing he 'has' on me (a joke, as I and others have said) and just running with it like it's a football and he has a clear shot at a try.
Great to know about your experience - you do know that the Scum are out to kill the Town and hide while they do so (and there could be other malific third parties too, who also don't want to be noticed while they persue their wincons that conflict with Town's - the majority of us being Town).
Your "nor do I have any reason to go after any of you" is troublesome, because Scum usually don't find themselves. Arguably, if you're playing this game, you have a reason to try and find Scum, or at least look like you do - Most of us because we are Town and will lose if we don't succeed at exposing the Scum - and the rest of us because if someone don't look like they share that majority goal, that person is going to be pretty easily found.
I don't mind your vote on Nerjin, but I'd like your case well better if it amounted to more than 'he attacked me and the attack is bad'. I'd also have liked it a lot more if you'd stated that instead of saying instead
It looks to me like he's trying to get rid of me - a laudable cause to be sure - but I think his motives this time are more along the lines of 'killing all the townies', than de-scumming the docks.
That's a strong claim, that you think his motives are killing Town as opposed to hunting Scum, and claims like that should be backed up by details supporting why you see this happening - without that, your words make you look more suspicious. If someone is Scum, you don't have to paint them red or Scummy - that can make you look Scummier - instead you can highlight what they're doing that is Scummy, invite them to explain and discuss that and their motives, explain how and where their logic or details given contradicts other known (usually posted earlier) details. Sometimes Scummy-looking stuff isn't Scummy. Other times it is. If you'd rather lynch Scum than just Scummy, it may be important to try and differentiate between the two, and that probably can't happen only inside any one player's thoughts.
I'm not convinced that Nerjin is trying to get rid of you or not - I suspect he's trying to investigate you and expose your motives and reactions more clearly. That doesn't confirm your alignment or his - but I think how you react and how you try to Scumhunt (or not) can be meaningful in determining your role.
One thing to consider, comedy tends to involve saying things, but not saying what you mean. If much of your posting (more than one or two rare, and ideally clearly defined jokes... you can even use /joke and then say what you really think!) consists of not saying what you mean - that's likely to confuse us, and what purpose does it serve towards identifying Scum? One very wise IC (player in a newbie game, playing with the purpose of teaching others) once said that 'Everything you do, everything, should be done to help you catch Scum'. A lot of your posts appear to not be directed towards Scumhunting, and that is worrysome. I hope your future posts show your motives more clearly.
notquitethere:
Spoiler: OOC on usage of 'note' (click to show/hide)
TolyK:
Numbers added to the quote by me.
Your whole argument, basically:
[1] - My style of asking people questions, analyzing posts and such is disagreeable.
[2] - Moreover, I haven't been asking many questions at all, due to low activity.
[3] - And I haven't been answering the semi-rhetorical questions asked, either.
[4]- I replied about a possible serial killer and/or cult once, in reply to a question of "what should we look out for?"
You are so far off the base in what you describe as my argument I don't understand how it's possible.
1 - I never call your style of questions and analysis 'disagreeable' - it is not Scumhunting and was being used as a distraction. Asking one question, then spending 5 days playing with that question's answers is neither satisfactory Scumhunting nor satisfactory analysis.
2 - I never attribute your lack of asking many questions to your 'low activity' - far as I'm concerned your activity is just fine - it's your 'lack of content' and the redirective focus that you are clearly displaying. Your motives feel hostile to me, your what I call a 'show' feels deceptive and designed to hide malicious intent. Your reaction to my challenge is redirective, your analysis of it is deeply inaccurate, and you are still not scumhunting.
3 - You dare invite me to "Ping [you] later in case I forget" because of two totally trimmed out posts of mine which you say "Neat. There's something here, but I don't have the time to look at it right now" about. You're now calling my questions about your statement 'semi-rhetorical', and you still haven't returned to it. Apparently your words then were also only misdirection and deception to hide your real intentions and your real lack of intention to Scumhunt.
4 - I have not challenged you on anything you've said about possible third parties - nor have I said one word about it. Someone else has, yes.
Everything that you describe as your interpretation of my 'argument' is incorrect, some of it 100% incorrect.
There's no way I'd feel comfortable with you in Lylo with how you're posting, analyzing, and playing, no matter what your alignment is. Your level of redirection and misinterpretation seems highly malicious. By all means, Scumhunt. It's your wrong focus and your lack of focus that has caught my attention so strongly.
But I've spent well over an hour answering questions (which you say I don't answer)
Wrong again, I say that you mostly only answer questions (and the other thing you mainly do is repeatedly discuss your first question's answers, drawing the most obvious and lowest level conclusions from them - a waste of time and an inflation of post count).
Out of time - Hapah and anyone else I've missed, I'll respond to you when I next get a chance.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 03:11:21 pm
I have more important things to do than to make sure every single other player thinks I'm scum.
He's done NOTHING to convince me that he isn't scum
Seems a bit hypocritical here, unless you'd care to elaborate (I don't have to prove myself to you, but Iqo has to prove himself to me!)
You keep bringing up things as if you're 'forced' to vote for Birdy. No, you aren't! There's been an extension, bud, the deadline isn't looming, so you have no excuse for not voting the person who you think is definitely scum.
Post by: Toaster on November 06, 2013, 04:41:13 pm
What do you say? A giant roadside scum attraction? You mean, thing that attracts scum? Possibly, I'll keep that in mind, thanks Shakerag.
Why couldn't this have been a vote, considering you're not voting anyway?
I'll just be honest at this point and say I haven't come up with any real leads. I'll keep looking, but I'm currently having trouble focusing on this game.
Post by: birdy51 on November 06, 2013, 04:53:12 pm
BirdyNormally, you are pretty damn studious my friend. Yet, you've yet realize that you were the only person that I didn't address an RVS question to.I pressed you for inactivity here:
In fact, I've only actually been in contact with you once, and that was because you asked me a question. What gives?Toaster, Tiruin, Hapah, Birdy, TolyK—
The lynch vote is the weapon of town, without it we can't win. It's getting pretty close to the end of the day: are you going to use your vote?
And I've been waitijng for you to get online. My time is a bit more constrained in general (I'm doing Nanowrimo and I'm active in another game) and full analysis with this many players takes hours, so I'll try and squeeze it in before the end of the day or, more likely at this stage, present a full analysis of Day 1 on Day 2, taking into account who pressed for what lynch etc.
We're none of us getting younger. Have you still not voted or did I miss it?
Note, I have only been in contact with you once, not you. Semantics I realize, but still.
If you will also note, I mentioned nothing about your reads or your current views of me or others, nor did I ask for any excuses as to why you are busy. I understand you are busy, but my question asked you nothing about any sort of inactivity on your end. The real basis of why I FOS'd you is the fact that you never noticed that you were the only one I never leveled a single question towards. There is something odd about that fact.
So, I shall say again. What gives? Did you simply not notice?
Also, before you say that I dodged your question, I have answered it, if only in an obtuse manner. Quoting be damned, I was stressed to hell at that point in time.
I learned this morning that I will be attending a funeral here pretty soon. Family died on Sunday and I did not hear about it until early this morning. To those paying attention to this post, count it is as a double reason for not voting. I don't think I can be fully involved in this game right now, and voting anyone right now would be a bit irresponsible.
Regardless, for now I will set forth my Replacement Request, as well a request for a vote count. I'll stick around until either I am dead or someone can take over for me.
Post by: Imp on November 06, 2013, 05:06:22 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
birdy51 - Deathsword, TheWetSheep,
Cheeetar -
Deathsword -
Hapah -
Imp -
Nerjin - Cheeetar, The_Iqovian,
notquitethere -
Shakerag -
The_Iqovian - notquitethere, Nerjin,
TheWetSheep -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK - Shakerag, Imp,
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Tiruin, Toaster, TolyK, birdy51, Hapah,
7 To Hammer. Day ends Monday 8 PM Central.
4 of 7 to Extend.
If I missed your vote, let me know. My eyes ain't what they used to be.
Could we get a new update?
Best I can tell, votes look like this now:
Nerjin: Cheeetar, The_Iqovian
TolyK: Imp, Shakerag
Birdy51: Nerjin, TheWetSheep
The_Iqovian: notquitethere
Shakerag: Hapah
Cheeetar: Deathsword
Currently unvoted: Birdy, reasons given for unvote at time, later cites a death in family,
Never voted: Toaster, Tiruin, TolyK
Tiruin and TheWetSheep last posted 41 hours ago.
No one's asked for another Extend yet that I can see, so I'll start the requests this time - looks like day ends in about 5 hours.
We have a three way tie in votes right now. I'd really prefer not to change my vote from TolyK, the way he's acted throughout the game seems seriously off to me. I have concerns about
Birdy (from before his family emergency; odd behavior, uncertain significance),
Cheeetar(odd behavior, uncertain significance),
The_Iquovian(different odd behavior, uncertain significance),
Deathsword(not much posting to read),
Tiruin (not much posting to read),
Hapah (not much posting to read),
TheWetSheep (game to WetSheep! At least ask for an extension?) and
Toaster (where's the
I have little time but I'll check on the thread throughout the day to see how things change.
Post by: Toaster on November 06, 2013, 05:14:53 pm
Early request for an Extend.
Post by: Nerjin on November 06, 2013, 05:34:24 pm
Post by: Teneb on November 06, 2013, 06:20:16 pm
Here's a question for you: You think a scummy thing about Iqo is how passive and inactive he's being in the face of these accusations- do you think your inactivity is as scummy, or not?Inactivity is not scummy. Passivity is. Iqovian does nothing but respond to Nerjin. He doesn't ask any questions that could be used to gleam information from others, not even Nerjin himself. All he does is answer and accuse Nerjin of overreacting to what he claims was a joke. And that's when you are not jumping in to save your buddy.
Was it a joke? That is hard to say. A new player is more likely to slip horribly than an old one. In my second BM a player's first post was him asking me to prove that I wasn't scum. That is a horrible, horrible, slip. Guess what, he was scum. This kind of stuff happens. I am inclined to believe Iqovian did a mistake, being new to forum mafia.
His statement aside, there is the matter that he simply does not hunt scum. It is as if he has no motivation to do so.
What is more worrying is that you time and again intervene in his favour. Not for a single moment have you ever done any scumhunting towards him, unless you count a half-hearted FoS asking him to explain his "joke".
Post by: birdy51 on November 06, 2013, 06:23:03 pm
So, given that I'm not overly bothered by TolyK and I won't vote for myself, I'll throw my vote on Nerjin. I do agree with her though. With as many people who aren't active, it may be a good time to move onto Day 2. This time there will not be an extension from me.
That said, if one passes, I'll revert to no voting, and let those who are still actively participating take care of business. But at some point we do have to move forward.
Post by: Nerjin on November 06, 2013, 06:25:36 pm
Post by: Nerjin on November 06, 2013, 06:37:51 pm
Birdy51, Birdy51
I've elaborated on my reasons before and adding this to the fact that you're ONLY voting to save yourself. Yeah.
Post by: birdy51 on November 06, 2013, 06:45:39 pm
I haven't made any case at all at this point. I'm working off general reads here.
To add onto this, the same exact argument you just made could be applied to you. What is stopping your vote from being one to save your own rear and pull off a No Lynch? Regardless, if I do get lynched, I suppose it really doesn't matter. I'm going to be out the door pretty soon regardless.
Post by: Imp on November 06, 2013, 07:02:54 pm
Meph, can we please get an updated vote count/extend count/day end count?
We actually haven't had one since before the previous extend (and every vote change that Nerjin's done has happened SINCE that one)
I'm now wondering if Nerjin's got one vote, 2 votes (he actually used two, in a way in his first first voting post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4732803#msg4732803), once inside the spoiler, once outside.), or maybe even 4 votes - He used an unvote once, but since then he's voted for Birdy 4 times across 3 different posts.
....
Nerjin, is there anything you'd feel comfortable about claiming about your use of votes? I presume we're about to find out, but I am highly curious.
Post by: Nerjin on November 06, 2013, 07:31:39 pm
Also, Birdy, I've detailed a case on you for quite a while. It's only now that you're acting so desperately that I'm CERTAIN that you're scum. I would have left without a fuss if you'd actually HAD a case.
Post by: Nerjin on November 06, 2013, 07:33:52 pm
Post by: Imp on November 06, 2013, 08:03:02 pm
Your explanation of the power makes sense. You're saying that the current vote count looks like this now, then?
3 votes (would have been 2) Birdy51: Nerjin, TheWetSheep (Birdy - redirected from Nerjin by Nerjin)
2 votes (would have been 3) Nerjin: Cheeetar, The_Iqovian (Birdy - redirected back to Birdy by Nerjin)
2 votes TolyK: Imp, Shakerag
1 votes The_Iqovian: notquitethere
1 votes Shakerag: Hapah
1 votes Cheeetar: Deathsword
I can live with a Birdy lynch. I'd rather see a TolyK one and I'm not changing my vote at this point (and I hope I don't need to to prevent a mislynch).
I think I understand why and how "Smooth Talk" was named what it was, especially before Meph confirms the vote count, and perhaps why you posted in a way to suggest you possessed a double vote (I am assuming you could use your ability through a PM to Meph, without telling anyone, including your target, anything about where their vote had been redirected or even that anything strange was going on).
I appreciate your information. I suspect you are telling the truth.
I can see a vote redirection being given to any alignment, but what I can see of Nerjin's motives and intentions appears pro-Town to me. That's proof of nothing, but it sure doesn't make me suspicious of him.
I can see that if Nerjin wanted to try and ensure The_Iqovian or Cheeetar was lynched instead (or wanted to act to protect himself and not cared who was targeted), he could have lifted either of those votes from himself back to either of those. End result would be Nerjin with two votes, Nerjin's target of choice with three.
Meph, could we get an updated vote count pleeeeeaaaaaaaassssseeeeee?
Post by: Nerjin on November 06, 2013, 08:06:42 pm
Post by: Nerjin on November 06, 2013, 08:08:56 pm
Post by: Imp on November 06, 2013, 08:10:30 pm
Web is the mod Imp.
Zomg, I can't keep my games straight!
Wubba, could we get an updated vote count pleeeeeaaaaaaaassssseeeeee?
Post by: TheWetSheep on November 06, 2013, 08:25:49 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 08:44:16 pm
Post by: Nerjin on November 06, 2013, 08:51:59 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 08:55:07 pm
Sorry everyone. School's been really busy, and it takes precedent. It's better now though, so hopefully I'll post soon.
Better make it soon!
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 08:57:14 pm
No, I'd have 2 votes on him.
NQT's vote, your own, and his own. 3 votes, yo.
Post by: birdy51 on November 06, 2013, 08:57:20 pm
Since I am going to become lynched though, I may as well say who I am.
I am Kent Brockman News, Townie. My main selling point is that I am an investigatish role, although the way such investigations are held are rather obtuse and I would rather not get into how they are performed as it would be redundant.
The way I see things, I am most suspicious of NQT. Something with his situation bothers me. TheWetSheep is likely Town, in my book and for the record I really don't have any connections to Toaster. Yes, really. People just can't take a joke these days it seems...
Post by: birdy51 on November 06, 2013, 08:59:14 pm
Screw it. Unvoting Nerjin, voting for Birdy51. I don't want people jumping in on a Nerjin vote and Birdy not being lynched. His vote for absolutely no reason on Nerjin is suspicious, but it also might just be him giving up on the game given stuff that's been happening in his real life. If Birdy's scum, Nerjin's not and almost all of my Day 1 was wasted. If Birdy's innocent, though, there're a lot of leads to work off of.[/b]
This. You guys had better make the most out my death. If my show pandering has done anything, it has created a talking point. Use it your advantage.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 09:00:54 pm
People just can't take a joke these days it seems...
Ain't that the truth. If you would, tell us how your investigations would work? Even if you've made it up, it'd be interesting to see.
(Also, I am quite hoping you're innocent, just so maybe people will take my suspicions of Nerjin seriously.)
Post by: birdy51 on November 06, 2013, 09:02:10 pm
I also have one other ability that would make for an excellent gag, and had the potential to stop the scum team cold. It involves rekilling people. ^.^
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 09:08:54 pm
Post by: birdy51 on November 06, 2013, 09:10:49 pm
Post by: TheWetSheep on November 06, 2013, 09:16:36 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 09:19:57 pm
I would love an extend, since I haven't had time to catch up the last few days, and I'm not completely sure I want to lynch Birdy. I can't make a full post yet though.
You're kind of asking for a lot there, Sheep, and I don't think enough people are going to be reading and posting in the thread between now and the end of the day to grant an extension anyway. Could you give us a quick, abridged version of what would be your full post before night begins?
Post by: birdy51 on November 06, 2013, 09:20:14 pm
I'd rather not go back against my word again if I can help it, although I'd be willing to hammer an extension in if enough people vote.
Post by: birdy51 on November 06, 2013, 09:20:48 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 09:22:22 pm
I won't vote for an extension, however. Day 1 has gone on for just long enough to feel too long.
Post by: Imp on November 06, 2013, 09:23:32 pm
If you want to say more about this,
or this,Screw it. Unvoting Nerjin, voting for Birdy51. I don't want people jumping in on a Nerjin vote and Birdy not being lynched. His vote for absolutely no reason on Nerjin is suspicious, but it also might just be him giving up on the game given stuff that's been happening in his real life. If Birdy's scum, Nerjin's not and almost all of my Day 1 was wasted. If Birdy's innocent, though, there're a lot of leads to work off of.
This. You guys had better make the most out my death. If my show pandering has done anything, it has created a talking point. Use it your advantage.
You'll see soon enough. :Por anything else that you feel might help achieve your wincon, I'm listening.
I also have one other ability that would make for an excellent gag, and had the potential to stop the scum team cold. It involves rekilling people. ^.^
Cheeetar:
Is anybody else online to weigh in before we see Birdy's role reveal?
I am, erratically between bouts of doing work, but I'm not sure what I can weigh about. Are you wanting to discuss changing who is lynched or anything?
I remain most suspicious of TolyK, I remain most interested in seeing his lynch.
I think Nerjin is probably Town and really don't support a Nerjin lynch.
I'm not sure what I think about Birdy, and that's also affected by his recent loss. Birdy, thanks for giving this game so much time and calm posting given your situation. I can still live with a Nerjin lynch, somewhat less happily now.
What do you have in mind?
Post by: Imp on November 06, 2013, 09:24:34 pm
I can still live with aNerjinBirdy lynch, somewhat less happily now.
Doh, silly posting from work. Corrected in strikethrough.
Post by: birdy51 on November 06, 2013, 09:35:38 pm
Regardless, my death should provide some information for the Town to work with. Hopefully, my corpse can be used as a stepping stone for further operations.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 09:43:30 pm
Cheeetar:Is anybody else online to weigh in before we see Birdy's role reveal?
I am, erratically between bouts of doing work, but I'm not sure what I can weigh about. Are you wanting to discuss changing who is lynched or anything?
I remain most suspicious of TolyK, I remain most interested in seeing his lynch.
I think Nerjin is probably Town and really don't support a Nerjin lynch.
I'm not sure what I think about Birdy, and that's also affected by his recent loss. Birdy, thanks for giving this game so much time and calm posting given your situation. I can still live with a Nerjin lynch, somewhat less happily now.
What do you have in mind?
I'm actually a bit more ambivalent about a Nerjin lynch right now, but I'm honestly not sure. I think the best course of action is lynching Birdy. He's not my first pick for scum, but his death would be much better than a tie and I don't think a Nerjin lynch is possible right now.
Just some final thoughts before the reveal from any player who's able was what I was asking for I suppose.
Post by: Imp on November 06, 2013, 09:47:26 pm
Post by: webadict on November 06, 2013, 09:49:01 pm
As such, here's your vote count. I'm also mini-extending the Day for an hour so that everyone can verify the vote count before I end the Day.
Vote Count
------------------------
birdy51 - TheWetSheep, Nerjin, Nerjin, Cheeetar,
Cheeetar - Deathsword,
Deathsword -
Hapah -
Imp -
Nerjin - The_Iqovian,
notquitethere -
Shakerag - Hapah,
The_Iqovian - notquitethere,
TheWetSheep -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK - Shakerag, Imp,
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Tiruin, Toaster, TolyK,
7 To Hammer. Day ends Wednesday 8 PM Central.
Post by: birdy51 on November 06, 2013, 09:54:15 pm
Just received a PM on it.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 09:55:35 pm
And what are your thoughts on TolyK?
I haven't thought about him too much, to be honest! One of the problems with me trying to focus on questioning a narrower band of people. His RVS questions were odd. He's been more active than most lurkers, but for some reason he doesn't at all stick in my mind as an active player of this game- I haven't seen much pressuring or scumhunting from his side of things. Aaaand... that is a huge post on your end about his scumminess (that is a word, spell check.)
I'd absolutely agree that he seems to be actively lurking, as opposed to the lurking lurkers of the game- it's definitely more suspicious than, say, Tiruin's absence from the game. Birdy did seem a lot more invested in the game than Toly, and right now I'm thinking Toly is scummier. Is it too late to lynch a different dude?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 09:57:04 pm
Post by: birdy51 on November 06, 2013, 10:01:56 pm
Excellent, mini extension. Alright, Nerjin, how fussed are you about lynching Birdy and not Toly?
Don't quote me on this, but I think he may have checked out for the night. I'm currently writing an essay, and idle babbling is easier than preparing major posts. :P
Post by: Imp on November 06, 2013, 10:02:55 pm
From currently:
Quote
birdy51 - TheWetSheep, Nerjin, Nerjin, CheeetarIf Nerjin cannot change the stolen vote, I believe the vote could shift to:
TolyK - Shakerag, Imp
Quote
birdy51 - TheWetSheep, NerjinAnd if the stolen vote can be moved:
TolyK - Shakerag, Imp, Nerjin, Cheeetar
Quote
birdy51 - TheWetSheep
TolyK - Shakerag, Imp, Nerjin, Nerjin, Cheeetar
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 10:03:52 pm
Excellent, mini extension. Alright, Nerjin, how fussed are you about lynching Birdy and not Toly?
Don't quote me on this, but I think he may have checked out for the night. I'm currently writing an essay, and idle babbling is easier than preparing major posts. :P
Argh! Major butts, he holds two votes, and I'm worried that now I'm second guessing myself too much with desiring of changing my vote.
Post by: birdy51 on November 06, 2013, 10:09:18 pm
However, TheWetSheep is marked as online. If you guys could convince him, we would have a solid majority.
Post by: Tiruin on November 06, 2013, 10:10:28 pm
I do not respond faster when you put my name in Purple. In fact, I can't see the color purple. So, putting my name in purple is the least likely way to call my attention. I'd suggest the opposite of purple. Yes. Yellow. I would suggest yellow. Or even a nice lime green.Note to everyone: You should BOLD AND RED your votes. Webadict has something with colors :'(
Extend please!
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 10:12:38 pm
Post by: Tiruin on November 06, 2013, 10:17:14 pm
Alright, I'll bite. If TWS is willing to vote Toly, I'll gladly change my vote. I'm assuming you will too, Imp?Someone messed with the votes off TolyK, I presume, and put them on the next most-voted target, right? Trying to get the context. Why are you agreeing with one another on shifting vote?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 10:19:20 pm
Very-recent-skim-query:Alright, I'll bite. If TWS is willing to vote Toly, I'll gladly change my vote. I'm assuming you will too, Imp?Someone messed with the votes off TolyK, I presume, and put them on the next most-voted target, right? Trying to get the context. Why are you agreeing with one another on shifting vote?
It's close to the deadline, and I definitely don't want to have a tie vote. If we want to lynch Toly instead of Birdy, we're all going to have to change our votes.
Post by: Imp on November 06, 2013, 10:20:09 pm
Alright, I'll bite. If TWS is willing to vote Toly, I'll gladly change my vote. I'm assuming you will too, Imp?
I am already voting TolyK. He was my first vote this game, though it wasn't an RVS vote. His behavior since I voted for him and challenged him has become increasingly deflective and misleading, so my vote's not changed. It's not going to now either, unless I had to for preventing a tie - that's not going to be a problem though.
Very-recent-skim-query:Alright, I'll bite. If TWS is willing to vote Toly, I'll gladly change my vote. I'm assuming you will too, Imp?Someone messed with the votes off TolyK, I presume, and put them on the next most-voted target, right? Trying to get the context. Why are you agreeing with one another on shifting vote?
Tiruin, that was me, answering Cheeetar regarding if it was even possible to change the lynch with the people and votes at hand.
We have had weird vote stuff, that's Nerjin having 'stolen' and taken control of Birdy's vote. Claimed by Nerjin, supported by Birdy's claim of a PM about it.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 10:21:27 pm
Alright, I'll bite. If TWS is willing to vote Toly, I'll gladly change my vote. I'm assuming you will too, Imp?
I am already voting TolyK. He was my first vote this game, though it wasn't an RVS vote. His behavior since I voted for him and challenged him has become increasingly deflective and misleading, so my vote's not changed. It's not going to now either, unless I had to for preventing a tie - that's not going to be a problem though.
Bleh. I apologise for my absentmindedness.
Post by: TheWetSheep on November 06, 2013, 10:21:48 pm
Convince me in 2 minutes.
Post by: birdy51 on November 06, 2013, 10:24:10 pm
Man, that's a hard decision. I have to leave right basically right now, and I'm not sure on either of them.
Convince me in 2 minutes.
I have committed Occum's Razor by saying this, but I am confident I can find something over night. My role power is conducive to something like that happening. I'll vote myself if I fail to find anything.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 10:25:34 pm
Man, that's a hard decision. I have to leave right basically right now, and I'm not sure on either of them.
Convince me in 2 minutes.
Toly's been much more passive, less scumhunting, active lurking kinda behaviour.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 10:27:08 pm
Man, that's a hard decision. I have to leave right basically right now, and I'm not sure on either of them.
Convince me in 2 minutes.Because I am afraid to die!
I have committed Occum's Razor by saying this, but I am confident I can find something over night. My role power is conducive to something like that happening. I'll vote myself if I fail to find anything.
I think you mean Murphy's Law, right?
Occam's razor is picking the simplest argument as probably right, or some sort of smarter way of saying that.
Post by: birdy51 on November 06, 2013, 10:30:21 pm
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Ockham%27s_Razor
Post by: Tiruin on November 06, 2013, 10:32:10 pm
On the note of that. Nerjin using birdy's vote (against him, to be specific) details quite a lot on him. Nerjin: You're DARN sure he's scum, aye? What made you think so? From where did you begin suspecting him?
I will have a lot to browse through tomorrow. >_<
PPE: That's..exactly the basic premise of the razor.
Post by: Tiruin on November 06, 2013, 10:33:15 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 10:34:03 pm
Blargh. Ok, pressured here. How long until final day end?!
26 minute and counting! Quickly, read all the posts! Hurry! Hurry!
Post by: Nerjin on November 06, 2013, 10:40:09 pm
That said Extend you people better use it this time if it comes around.
I don't know if I'm able to switch vote targets honestly. I'll ask Web.
Is pretty color on black background
@Tiriun: I've stated my case on Birdy AND Iqovian several times. Check my postraveganzas for more detail if you'd like.
Post by: Imp on November 06, 2013, 10:43:59 pm
Even if Nerjin cannot move his stolen vote, I expect Nerjin can still move his own vote.
Cheeetar has said he'd rather see a TolyK lynch now than a Birdy lynch. Cheeetar's currently voting Birdy. If a second person, already voting for Birdy or not votes TolyK, then Birdy lives and TolyK dies today.
Because Birdy has 4 votes, and TolyK 2. If Birdy loses Cheeetar, who switches to TolyK, that ties the votes, both have 3. Any other person voting for TolyK takes TolyK to 4, even if that vote doesn't come from Birdy's count.
Post by: Tiruin on November 06, 2013, 10:51:12 pm
Greeaaat...
TolyK. I can't (..as in, didn't check deeply back) to wonder on why the whole fight drills down to one or the other. My notes on the occurrence in itself would state that Nerjin is either sure birdy should die-wherein said context would lie on the best probably idea: 'He's scum and I'm SURE of it' or Nerjin is a lyncher with a double vote.
GIVEN birdy's last words (presumably) I don't detect any sort of plea or appeal to emotions. I detect sincerity along his side on the 'if I die...' prospect on aiding town. Sure, I don't know if he's town or not, but his plea is. . .too innocent(?) to sound like either scum/third-party giving up and all that other stuff on veiled suspicion and such.
Nerjin's smooth talking. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4746232#msg4746232) Ok this is when he said his point and ability. Probably a fake-name claim because having a bluff skill that high would..convince the target to vote himself in remorse? Uh, ok. Most probably a fake-name given the context of smooth talking (him losing a vote, nerjin GAINING a vote? That ISN'T smooth-talking.)
birdy's claim. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4746421#msg4746421) Interesting. A claim on an inspect, with a newscaster as a premise. Probably an appeal to efficiency given how inspects are mostly always a convincing tool (yeah I'm biased because of that ONE GAME Witches Coven). While the context of inspects differ there from here, the difference is he withheld claiming it in exacts. Why would someone do this in lieu of death? Because its real, is the best logical answer to be had.
...And as I'm reading back I find that Nerjin's voting Birdy because he wants to avoid a tie, (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4745530#msg4745530) of all primary reasons. Is that you suspect him, a lesser priority for you to note that Nerjin? Blargh this. I'm typing my thoughts out at 60wpm.
But the scumminess remains. He's your second scum pick. What about REINFORCING THE CASE ON YOUR FIRST?! That came off to me as an excuse given some kind of veiled motive there. It's a strong move, but...confusing given how you explained it. What it seems to me: Double voter uses power to hit secondary target instead of getting primary suspect on the line. Reason: Wasting time(?). How is that possible when people can ask for extends or debate about the matter?
If so, then that's a really risky move as scum to do as it..levels quite a lot of suspicion on you. Something else is there with you Nerjin, but its vague as far as I can see.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 10:55:10 pm
Here's hoping I'm not majorly screwing up with the last minute revision to my vote.
Post by: Nerjin on November 06, 2013, 10:56:47 pm
Tolyk, Tolyk
No ties!
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 10:57:37 pm
Nerjin's smooth talking. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4746232#msg4746232) Ok this is when he said his point and ability. Probably a fake-name claim because having a bluff skill that high would..convince the target to vote himself in remorse? Uh, ok. Most probably a fake-name given the context of smooth talking (him losing a vote, nerjin GAINING a vote? That ISN'T smooth-talking.)
I think smooth-talking is persuading somebody to vote for somebody else. I don't think Nerjin mentioned that they had to vote for themselves, only that they had to be voting for him for him to be able to change the vote.
Post by: Nerjin on November 06, 2013, 10:58:28 pm
Post by: Imp on November 06, 2013, 10:58:37 pm
Nerjin, Thanks but it's safe - vote count stands like this now (assuming you cannot move your stolen vote:
2 votes birdy51 - TheWetSheep, Nerjin
5 votes TolyK - Shakerag, Imp, Tiruin, Cheeetar, Nerjin
Before it was 3 to 4, still a somewhat safe clear lynch.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 10:58:51 pm
You fucker!
Tolyk, Tolyk
No ties!
It wouldn't've tied anyway. Before you changed your votes, it was 3 on Birdy and 4 on Toly.
Post by: birdy51 on November 06, 2013, 10:59:20 pm
Post by: Tiruin on November 06, 2013, 11:00:25 pm
Justified (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4746092#msg4746092) anger Nerjin. That isn't good. However the context follows the notion of...inactivity being Birdy's reason? Seriously? Ignoring other snaps at other people and focusing the viewpoint on Nerjin and birdy..I find it weird how you see birdy, N. As your posts preceeding the note and vote on him are mostly on other people. This post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4741877#msg4741877) addresses the current target, on a question that is mostly trivial - rude to have left unanswered, yes, but still, it doesn't connect him to being scum in that context.
Quote
“Why did you ask Cheetar if he was satisfied with his role?”The quote dictates the question as far as I see it, and I don't or can't see any kind of detail linking birdy with scum on that kind of note. Which seems more like a query out of RVS and curiosity than note. Granted, I also note some kind of anger--RL affecting your current state, as my best guess--in posts noted on you. Iqovian's post seems to also have upset you.
Though I apologize (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4741825#msg4741825) on the note I have given here. It won't occur during today, I fear. Though i am able to play-my reason being that if I do make a replacement, it would just make the game harder on for everyone combined.
CLARIFYING:
TolyK, Tiruin, Toaster— lurker tracker says you three still aren't voting. Day ends today and you haven't even committed to a case yet? If you have an ability which precludes you from voting then just say and tell us who you would have picked.I have no restrictions on my profile at all, or anything which precludes me from doing such and such. It is RL.
PPE: 7 replies?!
You fucker!...Bloody hell. Wh. Why. What.
Tolyk, Tolyk
No ties!
In today's news, local village idiot escapes lynch. Holy crap. More news at 11....?!What?! You're a village idiot?!
Post by: Imp on November 06, 2013, 11:01:52 pm
I can ABSOLUTELY not fucking believe the two of you! You'd tie up the vote this close to day end when most people won't be able to react to it!? What the hell!? WHAT IS YOUR REASONING FOR THIS!?
At no point was it tied. Originally
Quote
4 votes birdy51 - TheWetSheep, Cheeetar, Nerjin, NerjinThen Tiruin voted:
2 votes TolyK - Shakerag, Imp
Quote
4 votes birdy51 - TheWetSheep, Cheeetar, Nerjin, NerjinThen Cheeetar switched:
3 votes TolyK - Shakerag, Imp, Tiruin
Quote
3 votes birdy51 - TheWetSheep, Nerjin, NerjinThen you ensured:
4 votes TolyK - Shakerag, Imp, Tiruin, Cheeetar
Quote
2 votes birdy51 - TheWetSheep, Nerjin,OR
5 votes TolyK - Shakerag, Imp, Tiruin, Cheeetar, Nerjin
Quote
1 vote birdy51 - TheWetSheep
6 votes TolyK - Shakerag, Imp, Tiruin, Cheeetar, Nerjin, Nerjin
Post by: Nerjin on November 06, 2013, 11:03:13 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 11:04:31 pm
In today's news, local village idiot escapes lynch. Holy crap. More news at 11.
I salute thee, noble newsman.
Post by: Tiruin on November 06, 2013, 11:05:00 pm
I can ABSOLUTELY not fucking believe the two of you! You'd tie up the vote this close to day end when most people won't be able to react to it!? What the hell!? WHAT IS YOUR REASONING FOR THIS!?...Really. With that level of anger, I'm putting the label of 'Lyncher' on you.
The prospect being a no lynch = no target down? Yeah, that is something to get mad at. But why you're getting mad in the first place is..connected with your first reason. To avoid a tie.
Guess what that entails? Those who are tying are either scumbags trying to save their buddy, or..chaos within the voting, wherein every voter should be inspected with reason. That is the other part of the coin in no-lynching, but lynching is still preferred.
Also..yeah. Whether or not you would've changed your double vote, TolyK would still get lynched.
Other humanoids who shifted their vote: Why? You guys believe birdy is too town for TolyK?
PPE (3)
Well it appears I got pissed for no reason. Tiruin, have you read much of the thread? Can I just ask you that?No. I've read only as much as I can on you and birdy. Yes. Shameful of me. :-\ I also thought the day would end tomorrow as this day is my rest day in ~2 hours from now. So argh this.
Post by: Imp on November 06, 2013, 11:05:43 pm
Well it appears I got pissed for no reason. Tiruin, have you read much of the thread? Can I just ask you that?
*grins* Nah, it's never wrong to show us true reaction and what you are reacting to. Helps us all tell the difference, somewhat, when you fake reactions - gives us something to compare it to.
Post by: Tiruin on November 06, 2013, 11:06:10 pm
Well it appears I got pissed for no reason. Tiruin, have you read much of the thread? Can I just ask you that?Counterpoint: Why are you so easily pissable? As in, why do you need to wordify your anger? Under what purpose caused it?
I think day just ended 5 minutes ago
...When someone swears, I always see it as a true reaction.Well it appears I got pissed for no reason. Tiruin, have you read much of the thread? Can I just ask you that?
*grins* Nah, it's never wrong to show us true reaction and what you are reacting to. Helps us all tell the difference, somewhat, when you fake reactions - gives us something to compare it to.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 11:08:10 pm
Other humanoids who shifted their vote: Why? You guys believe birdy is too town for TolyK?
Prospect of either a Birdy or a TolyK lynch, definitely wanting a TolyK one. Birdy I voted because he was being mildly suspicious and I didn't want a tie vote, although he's been fairly townie in the face of his possible death. Toly I'm voting because he's even more suspicious, and a better pick for scum upon reflection.
Post by: Imp on November 06, 2013, 11:09:26 pm
Post by: Tiruin on November 06, 2013, 11:14:40 pm
But yeah, sorry for my absence :X
Post by: Cheeetar on November 06, 2013, 11:15:44 pm
I just came back from class! Appreciation of art needs more appreciation! D:< Oh, and work. Work. x_x
But yeah, sorry for my absence :X
It's not so bad. Your last minute saving the day (I hope!) has had a huge impact on the game.
Post by: Tiruin on November 06, 2013, 11:16:58 pm
...By voting TolyK?I just came back from class! Appreciation of art needs more appreciation! D:< Oh, and work. Work. x_x
But yeah, sorry for my absence :X
It's not so bad. Your last minute saving the day (I hope!) has had a huge impact on the game.
Ah, I see, the +1 over birdy.
...Dear gods do I feel ashamed. I'll explain this in the morrow.
Post by: birdy51 on November 06, 2013, 11:18:25 pm
In today's news, local village idiot escapes lynch. Holy crap. More news at 11....?!What?! You're a village idiot?!
O.o
Figure of speech!
I can't imagine anyone else who managed to make so many gaffes in one day and manage somehow get away with it. That said, I also found it on Mafia Scum. The definition is suddenly apt and it applies to me strongly.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Village_Idiot
Wow, that mini-extension sure got a lot of activity and change in the game!
It may have made my night actually! Sure I've made absolutely no progress on the essay that's been sitting in front of me for over an hour, but it was exciting!
In today's news, local village idiot escapes lynch. Holy crap. More news at 11.
I salute thee, noble newsman.
Thank you good plebian and loyal watcher of our station. Now if you excuse me I have the news to report. Kent Brockman, away!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C3ZJIl6MjY
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2013, 01:27:32 am
Post by: TolyK on November 07, 2013, 05:43:50 am
Post by: webadict on November 07, 2013, 12:29:54 pm
"Well if'n it ain't Quinn?" Johnny laughs. "Got tired a sleepin' in?"
"Heh, sorry. Not used to being called so late just yet." Quinn tries to fake a smile.
"Don' worry about it. The kid over here sleeps all day." Sam points at Johnny. "So, d'ya got anythin' fer us?"
"Afraid not."
Johnny hastily starts searching through the crime scene he's allowed to go through. "Alright, how 'bout this guy?" Johnny pulls out a wallet. "Tony Kay. Age 26. Male. Blue eyes. 5 foot 10." Johnny shows them the ID. "Don't look like the type a guy that'd norm'ly be hangin' out here, right?" Johnny throws the wallet to Quinn and continues searching. Quinn opens up the wallet, when a piece of paper falls out. Everyone stops as Sam picks it up and opens it.
Sam's brow furrows. "The end?" Sams shows them the paper, and written everywhere on the paper is the phrase "The End" over and over in odd chaotic fashions.
"Whelp, dis guy's a psycho."
Vote Count
------------------------
birdy51 - TheWetSheep,
Cheeetar - Deathsword,
Deathsword -
Hapah -
Imp -
Nerjin - The_Iqovian,
notquitethere -
Shakerag - Hapah,
The_Iqovian - notquitethere,
TheWetSheep -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
TolyK - Shakerag, Imp, Tiruin, Cheeetar, Nerjin, Nerjin,
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Toaster, TolyK,
7 To Hammer. Day ends Wednesday 8 PM Central.
TolyK has been lynched!
TolyK was Entropy (town).
Quote
TolyK - Entropy
The End?
(Auto) The End.: While you’re alive, if an action would cause you to lose the game, that action is undone.
(Night) Dissipation [target]: You may choose to block or delay the target. If you choose delay, this action is unblockable.
(1-Shot, Day) Equilibrium [target]: Kill the target. You can no longer vote, regardless of the number of votes you have.
Post by: notquitethere on November 07, 2013, 03:42:31 pm
Post by: zombie urist on November 07, 2013, 03:46:56 pm
Post by: Nerjin on November 07, 2013, 03:48:04 pm
Post by: webadict on November 09, 2013, 07:00:06 pm
Post by: webadict on November 10, 2013, 06:45:49 pm
"Nonono, get this, so the CIA faked his death to keep 'im hidden. 'Cause of the mob ties, right?" Johnny pauses for a second, waiting for an answer.
Sam sighs, disappointed. "I can't believe you're goin' on about that Elvis conspiracy again?"
"See, yer not gettin' it!"
The investigation had been going on for a week. They were now searching for anything relating to a "Hoppa" Doe wanted in several states for stalking, breaking restraining orders, trespassing, and petty theft. So far, the only real lead was a birth certificate of a Hapah Perez from El Salvador, but nobody can get a lead after that.
"Anyway, all I can really get on this guy," Quinn interrupts, "is that he's a real slimeball. Stalks women, watches them through windows, yada yada yada, the guy's a creep."
"How 'bout anyone else?" Sam asks.
Johnny just shrugs his shoulders.
Hapah has been killed!
Hapah was the Creep (town).
Vote Count
------------------------
birdy51 -
Cheeetar -
Deathsword -
Imp -
Nerjin -
notquitethere -
Shakerag -
The_Iqovian -
TheWetSheep -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Toaster, Shakerag, Imp, Tiruin, Cheeetar, Nerjin, birdy51, The_Iqovian, notquitethere, Deathsword, TheWetSheep,
6 To Hammer. Day ends Wednesday 8 PM Central.
Quote
Hapah - The Creep
tssssssssss…
(Auto) Creeper: Any Night action you perform on a target gives you a free track action on the target.
(Night) Stalk [target]: You stalk the target, making sure they get to their destinations a-okay, and protect them if they don’t! It’s not unhealthy at all!
(1-Shot, Night) Call In A Favor [all]: You call in a few favors from your friends. All actions performed during this Night are copied to the user.
Post by: birdy51 on November 10, 2013, 10:16:04 pm
Unfortunately however, that's all I have been able to learn. Which is disappointing to say the least.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 10, 2013, 11:29:18 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on November 10, 2013, 11:32:40 pm
Post by: notquitethere on November 11, 2013, 06:32:17 am
Nerjin— do you think your adherence to no one ever tying a vote is always pro-town? Why did you think Birdy had tied the vote?
The Iqovian— Nerjin was your top pick yesterday and you enabled him to use his double-voting power. How do you feel about Nerjin now he's revealed his Fast talk ability?
Post by: TolyK on November 11, 2013, 07:25:04 am
Bah.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 11, 2013, 07:55:16 am
Alright, due to being in asuperiordifferent timezone to most of you guys, the end-day activity happened for me in the wee hours of the morning. I've read over it and I'm trying to piece together what in blue blazes was going on. Can somebody explain to me why everyone suddenly upped and jumped on TolyK? Why did you all move your votes in unison?
Neither of the people who were likely to be lynched were my top picks for scum, but they'd both acted scummily in the past. However, Birdy was startingly towny in the face of his upcoming death, and (upon being asked to consider Toly as scum) I took a quick look over what he'd said and how he'd acted and I saw him as more scummy than Birdy, so I swapped my vote to him when it was sure that doing so wouldn't tie the vote.
Post by: Nerjin on November 11, 2013, 08:33:41 am
Counterpoint: Why are you so easily pissable? As in, why do you need to wordify your anger? Under what purpose caused it?
Because Birdy was so much scummier than TolyK to me. My #2 pick for scum. Then all of the sudden people were just up and switching for no good reason. Cheetar even mentioned that he had barely any read on TolyK and found Birdy's vote on my highly suspicious! It just doesn't seem right. Having a case on someone [even if it's weak] and then switching for someone you had no case on at all? Plus at the time it seemed like it was tying the vote which is something that should NEVER happen Day 1. I'm interested to see your reads though and your justification for your votes.
@Cheetar
Birdy, why do you think you haven't been targeted for any night kills?
What do you expect to learn from this?
Imp, how do you feel about the person whose demise you orchestrated being town?
So when you murdered the suspect why do you think he resisted? Talk about a loaded question.
@Birdy51
I am confident I can find something over night. My role power is conducive to something like that happening. I'll vote myself if I fail to find anything.
Get to voting boy. I'll help you along, Birdy51. I am still certain that you're scum.
@NQTNerjin— do you think your adherence to no one ever tying a vote is always pro-town? Why did you think Birdy had tied the vote?
Yeah. What do we learn if the vote gets tied? Nothing. There's no flip, no extra intelligence gained. Just nothing. As to why I thought the vote got tied, in case you didn't notice that little mini-extension brought a LOT of changes. I didn't really have time to calmly reread I was a little busy trying to make sure scum got lynched.
I'm sure everyone wants another "Nerjin's Readstraveganza" right now but I'm honestly too busy for it right now. Maybe later. After a nice lunch.
Post by: birdy51 on November 11, 2013, 08:52:26 am
Birdy, why do you think you haven't been targeted for any night kills?
Likely because I had made too much of a fuss. To put it simply, I'm not an easy target.
@Birdy51I am confident I can find something over night. My role power is conducive to something like that happening. I'll vote myself if I fail to find anything.
Get to voting boy. I'll help you along, Birdy51. I am still certain that you're scum.
I did find something, it's just that the something is not a lot to go off of. At the time, I was hoping for a more definitive result, but it's clear I missed my mark.
Post by: Nerjin on November 11, 2013, 09:25:03 am
You did not find ANYTHING that is helpful to town. You did not find ANYTHING that you can prove. Therefore you did not find ANYTHING!
Here's how it happened. You either didn't do anything last night, did something for your scum-team, or you night killed. But I very much doubt that you investigated anything. It's incredibly easy to say "Oh, I found that I was visited last night." but here's my question how much did you learn? Did you learn anything useful? Oh... We've already covered that.
Post by: Shakerag on November 11, 2013, 09:37:53 am
Post by: notquitethere on November 11, 2013, 10:33:53 am
Neither of the people who were likely to be lynched were my top picks for scum, but they'd both acted scummily in the past. However, Birdy was startingly towny in the face of his upcoming death, and (upon being asked to consider Toly as scum) I took a quick look over what he'd said and how he'd acted and I saw him as more scummy than Birdy, so I swapped my vote to him when it was sure that doing so wouldn't tie the vote.But there were, what, five of at the end? Surely you could have moved to pushing your actual scum pick? I can understand these kinds of tense situations, but it's very easy to let the need to make a decision allow a bad decision to be pushed through.
Tiruin
Counterpoint: Why are you so easily pissable? As in, why do you need to wordify your anger? Under what purpose caused it?This sentence is a poetic masterstoke.
How do you feel about your case on TolyK now we're on Day 2?
Nerjin
Yeah. What do we learn if the vote gets tied? Nothing. There's no flip, no extra intelligence gained. Just nothing. As to why I thought the vote got tied, in case you didn't notice that little mini-extension brought a LOT of changes. I didn't really have time to calmly reread I was a little busy trying to make sure scum got lynched.I think I'd say: town should always strive for a lynch, however if you are town then you should attempt to stop yourself being mislynched, tying the vote if needs be. You can always step up your game the next day, but giving scum a free point and removing one more genuine scumhunter the next day isn't going to help town. But here I think our intuitions differ.
You did not find ANYTHING that is helpful to town. You did not find ANYTHING that you can prove. Therefore you did not find ANYTHING!Hold up Detective Nerjin, what makes you so sure? I know whenever I learn anything as town from my night actions, if it doesn't put anyone in danger I like to share it: the more information town has before you die the better. Good town-play does mean maintaining a sense of proportion and not reducing all your opponents to strawmen.
Here's how it happened. You either didn't do anything last night, did something for your scum-team, or you night killed. But I very much doubt that you investigated anything. It's incredibly easy to say "Oh, I found that I was visited last night." but here's my question how much did you learn? Did you learn anything useful? Oh... We've already covered that.
Birdy has made a small claim (that someone has targeted him with a positive action/there are such roles in this game) that we should take seriously. Are you really suggesting that a doctor or whatever should come forward and claim on the basis of that? If you're so positive Birdy is scum then why aren't you presenting a case and putting a lynch vote down?
Post by: Nerjin on November 11, 2013, 10:47:59 am
You did not find ANYTHING that is helpful to town. You did not find ANYTHING that you can prove. Therefore you did not find ANYTHING!Hold up Detective Nerjin, what makes you so sure? I know whenever I learn anything as town from my night actions, if it doesn't put anyone in danger I like to share it: the more information town has before you die the better. Good town-play does mean maintaining a sense of proportion and not reducing all your opponents to strawmen.
Here's how it happened. You either didn't do anything last night, did something for your scum-team, or you night killed. But I very much doubt that you investigated anything. It's incredibly easy to say "Oh, I found that I was visited last night." but here's my question how much did you learn? Did you learn anything useful? Oh... We've already covered that.
Birdy has made a small claim (that someone has targeted him with a positive action/there are such roles in this game) that we should take seriously. Are you really suggesting that a doctor or whatever should come forward and claim on the basis of that? If you're so positive Birdy is scum then why aren't you presenting a case and putting a lynch vote down?
You don't read do you? My case has already been presented and I AM voting him, demonstrated thusly:
@Birdy51
[. . .]
Get to voting boy. I'll help you along, Birdy51. I am still certain that you're scum.
As for expecting anyone to own up to doing whatever it is that happened [if it did happen.] I don't expect anyone to own up because I doubt anyone even did anything on the basis of how generic it was. He stated:
I was unable to learn much last night. Through my investigations, I learned that I had a single visitor. A benevolent one at that.
That doesn't really tell us anything and is information easily faked.
But you're right. Maybe I'm letting my paranoia get the better of me. I'm still sure he's scum but I'll be representing a case, as I said, after lunch. About two hours as it stands.
Post by: notquitethere on November 11, 2013, 11:16:45 am
You don't read do you? My case has already been presented and I AM voting him, demonstrated thusly:That 'vote' is in a quote, hence why I didn't. It's not legal but I gather that it was intended.
As for expecting anyone to own up to doing whatever it is that happened [if it did happen.] I don't expect anyone to own up because I doubt anyone even did anything on the basis of how generic it was.Yes, but it's also information that could easily be confirmed or disproven. Anyone could have been watching Birdy last night so it's still a risky thing to false-claim with little benefit to doing so.
[...]
That doesn't really tell us anything and is information easily faked.
But you're right. Maybe I'm letting my paranoia get the better of me. I'm still sure he's scum but I'll be representing a case, as I said, after lunch. About two hours as it stands.Okay. I look forward to hearing it.
You take care of yourself Shake, look forward to seeing you when you can.
Toaster
So you were saying...
It's getting pretty close to the end of the day: are you going to use your vote?Yes.
You didn't seem to have a problem asking other people to use their vote:
TolyK:What do you say? A giant roadside scum attraction? You mean, thing that attracts scum? Possibly, I'll keep that in mind, thanks Shakerag.Why couldn't this have been a vote, considering you're not voting anyway?
So what gives? You just not actually interested in hunting scum?
Sheep— A lot's happened since yesterday and today. You still think Birdy's scum?
Post by: TheWetSheep on November 11, 2013, 11:35:05 am
Quote
all three of our answers lined up together - he'd already quoted each one alone before - he even keeps in each of us quoting his question. His post has got to look long enough to hide that it's only got 41 words in it, the top set blatantly obvious about why ask, and the bottom set simplest possible analysis of what we said - and a reminder the show's not over yet, keep watching!The hypocrisy here is kind of funny. In the spoiler you have an entirety of one point on TolyK: his lack of asking useful questions and following up on them. Somehow, you extend that point into that long, dramatic story with fluff and quoting bits from every one of his posts.
These are both you taking TolyK's answers to other people and basically saying "haha you're activelurking". They have absolutely nothing related to your case.I think Cheetar, Imp, TolyK and you are the most engaged in the game and this is usually a good proxy for town. I found Cheetar a bit too passive at the beginning but he's done a fairly good job of explaining where he's coming from....
I'm usually even more wanting to play the game as scum, though, since that's rarer. So I don't quite agree with your logic.
Oh, but how you engage, would you say that's the same? How can you have so much energy to put into building intricate riddles through multiple players' posts and keep up your Scumhunting too? Oh, right. You're playing your own game instead of Scumhunting. I see it now, thanks!Now, as for you and why I dislike your vote. I can understand wanting to get out RVS, but I can hardly see how my post was role fishing. Given that I had innocent intentions when I wrote the question, it causes me to ponder what in particular made that one post stand out to you.You can still do scummy stuff if you have innocent intentions. :P
And innocent seeming, time-wasty stuff when you have Scummy intentions, you mean as well, so tongue-sticking-outly?
Next part of your post:
Numbering mine.1.Nope. Sincere question, I meant every word I said. Happens I'm a newbie, this is my third game. The first two haven't ended yet; when you look at my ears that's not length you see; they're still wet.I don't hear much about passivity finding Scum. Could you offer some links to help me find where passive play has been used effectively to assist and ensure Town wins?This is really painting yourself as town. As in, this is like saying "I'm town", except "Help me work for the town's cause".
It makes you look as if you're trying to make yourself look like a fluffy bunny that's asking for help.
Don't you agree?
2.None the less, if I am a rabbit you role fisher, you'd best consider me the Monty Python version, at least to Scum like yourself. Beware the cute ones (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KillerRabbit).
3.You on the other hand. Considering how you play games, are you trying to clue us in to having picked Elmer Fudd as your role choice, in a "Shhh. Be vewy vewy quiet, I'm hunting wabbits" sort of way?
4.Newp. "Oh, you dubbuh-cwossing wabbit! You tweachewous miscweant!" is all I have to say to your Scummy side.
1 contains the answer to his question, nothing more. 2,3 and 4 are fluff, except for your random accusation of rolefishing in 2. So no real accusations here either. Why did you accuse him of rolefishing?
Quote
And then you reminding him and making another substanceless accusation of time-wasting.*post**other post*Neat. There's something here, but I don't have the time to look at it right now. Ping me later in case I forget.
Ping. Ping. Have you had enough pings yet? Have you had enough of wasting time yet, both yours and ours?
So really, outside the spoiler you have no points on him, and in the spoiler your points are way overblown. It's interesting that you spend 887 words accusing him of wasting time.
Do you think that an accusation with more words is better than the same accusation put more concisely?
Birdy:
Get off your ass and actually do something different. You've fixated on me over half week. Find a new obsession and stop kicking a dog while it's down.Sorry. I didn't want to move on until you answered my questions, and since I was really lacking time it was easier to just continue with that attack instead of combing the thread for a new one. Although I no longer think you are scum, due to the late-day stuff.
Post by: Tiruin on November 11, 2013, 12:06:24 pm
TiruinNearly the same thing I felt about TolyK's case in D1 with change in verse and now checking to what happened before that which caused such a spark. I mean, wat. All those people can't all be scum (or everyone else voting is scum..but the vote-shifting. It doesn't jive correctly with me as an act-like it follows the technicality of 'lynch this guy so he won't really be a suspect since he's dead [sans resurrects] or if he's scum then yay'.Counterpoint: Why are you so easily pissable? As in, why do you need to wordify your anger? Under what purpose caused it?This sentence is a poetic masterstoke.
How do you feel about your case on TolyK now we're on Day 2?
"Wtf is going on" and "I don't suspect these people for the lynch" and "we're picking people to lynch now..wow. Um..what." were my thoughts. Basically a heap of confusion minus the expressive expletives.
Where the second one comes from my suspects--which, admittedly, is currently of a vague memory due to workload/RL load but its there and I'll get it ~12 hours from now-ish.
Post by: birdy51 on November 11, 2013, 02:47:57 pm
But you're right. Maybe I'm letting my paranoia get the better of me. I'm still sure he's scum but I'll be representing a case, as I said, after lunch. About two hours as it stands.
If I am not too late... Save yourself the trouble of compiling an argument. As far as I am concerned, you are justified in believing that I am scum. Wrong, but justified in the fact that I did vote for you and all the other shenanigans that went on. Feel free to keep your vote on me and try to lynch me, but your time may be better spent in other exercises, such as examining what everyone else was doing.
On another note, I've entered hell week for the show I am in so my conversations will be spotty at best.
Post by: Nerjin on November 11, 2013, 04:34:04 pm
Spoiler: @Birdy51 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Cheetar (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Deathsword (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Imp (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @NotQuiteThere (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Shakerag (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @The_Iquovian (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @TheWetSheep (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Tiruin (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: @Toaster (click to show/hide)
PPE: Birdy, you should know by now that I compile my views on EVERYONE before I post them in my "Read n' Post" or "Readstraveganza" [I like the former name better]. So worry not. Like the passive aggressiveness though. [Also, out of game note: Have fun with the show stuff!]
Post by: Cheeetar on November 11, 2013, 08:35:15 pm
Spoiler: Birdy51 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Nerjin (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: NotQuiteThere (click to show/hide)
Post by: Toaster on November 11, 2013, 08:53:53 pm
Toaster
So you were saying...
I blame poor time management, lack of energy, and poor play on my part.
I need to reread that post flood at day end, but I would like to claim one thing. I have a two-shot protect, and I used one of them on Hapah last night. Either he attracted two kills or one that bypassed protection.
Post by: Nerjin on November 11, 2013, 08:58:59 pm
Monday:
0600 = Wake up
0630-12 = Play Mafia
1200-1230 = Light lunch [Grilled Cheese and Chicken Noodle Soup]
1230-1235 = Recreation
1235-2200 = Play Mafia
2200-0600 = Sleep
Tuesday - Friday
Repeat Monday
Holidays
0600=Wake up
0600-1245 = Mafia time yo
1245-1250 = Eat fesitive Cupcake
1250-2200 = Play mafia
2200-0600 = Sleep
I hope this schedule is agreeable to you. It's what I do at any rate. Should be decent enough to start out with.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 11, 2013, 09:12:00 pm
I have a two-shot protect, and I used one of them on Hapah last night. Either he attracted two kills or one that bypassed protection.
Why are you claiming, and why did you try to protect Hapah?
Post by: notquitethere on November 12, 2013, 05:23:13 am
I wasn't feeling very confident in my ability to get a Nerjin lynch, and I was having some second thoughts in the whole 'Nerjin is scum' department anyway. Seeing his contributions come Day 2, I'm glad he wasn't lynched.Okay. It's fine to change your mind but maybe today can we get some suspicions in order first to avoid last minute wild switches?
Everybody! I don't think we're fully using the results of the day 1 lynch or the day 2 nightkill. Look at who voted for Toly, and whose reasoning was weak- additionally, was there anybody who'd said they were suspicious of Toly but for some reason held back for voting for him? (Possibly to avoid suspicion when his alignment was discovered?) Why do you think Hapah was targeted for a scum kill?It's quite likely that there was at least one scum player on Toly's lynch. Someone (I guess me when I have the time) should look back at the all the arguments against TolyK and see which was the weakest.
Toaster
I blame poor time management, lack of energy, and poor play on my part.Well, as least you're honest. Hopefully we can see more of you today then?
I need to reread that post flood at day end, but I would like to claim one thing. I have a two-shot protect, and I used one of them on Hapah last night. Either he attracted two kills or one that bypassed protection.Curious. You seem to be ruling out being blocked or redirected, so I guess you got a success message on the protect?
Nerjin
I feel like I've seen you get into this argument before with Jimmy Groovester and his twin brother Jim Groovester. At least similar. Here's the thing, NQT, the only way town gains any information is the lynch. Yeah it sucks that we run the risk of losing one of our own but without the lynch all we have is... Well nothing really.I don't disagree with this. The lynch is the weapon of town and should be used. I'm talking about the specific case in which a town-player is up for lynch. I think for that town player, keeping themselves alive is more useful than giving information to their comrades (who may well be incompetent). If mafia was an academic field and I could get a grant, I'd look into the evidence for the two sides of this argument.
I'm curious though, your case on the Iquovian yesterday was such that you voted him up until day end. What are your reads on him now? Do you still suspect him or has he swayed your opinion? Also, can't find where, but the ability is called "Smooth Talk".He was a legitimate general lynch candidate for most of yesterday, I like to make my vote work and perhaps if I'd have been able to have been around at day's end I'd have voted someone else.
Mostly he's ignored me. He hasn't said a thing today: I'm waiting to get back ton me from my question in my first post from today. I'll review the other suspects, but his absence doesn't fill me with confidence.
Imp
There's no way I'd feel comfortable with you in Lylo with how you're posting, analyzing, and playing, no matter what your alignment is.Is this how you usually pick a lynch candidate?
Deathsword— you're a bit quiet. Any thoughts on the end of Day 1? Still think Nerjin has a good argument and Cheetar is scum?
Post by: Imp on November 12, 2013, 08:49:02 am
Imp, how do you feel about the person whose demise you orchestrated being town?
Almost resigned. He was the fourth mislynch in a row since I started playing Mafia and I'd only played through 4 lynches then (there's since been a fifth, and it wasn't a mislynch!) TolyK's mislynch was the second time that my top Scum pick was Town (the other two mislynches were compromise votes for me). What bugs me most about this one is he looks like he would have been really useful.
(Auto) The End.: While you’re alive, if an action would cause you to lose the game, that action is undone.
I'm worried that we need that ability, that it is there to counterbalance something. It was also a way he could have maybe made certain that Town won if he made it to a 3 person Lylo. He could have used his day kill on either of the other players - his auto would prevent it from happening if he picked Town (it's an action that would cause him to lose the game) and if he picked Scum then Town would win right there.
I'm also mad at him for acting so Scummily and being Town. Even knowing he is Town now, I read back over D1 and his behavior doesn't look like Town behavior to me. I don't know if he meant to coast through D1 and then start trying to find Scum, or if he thought that the best service he could give Town was to just to float around, making sure he didn't get lynched and making sure he didn't get targeted as a night kill.
It would be better if I didn't waste your time, but it is what it is, from your point of view. I don't consider it a waste of time, and I hope you don't either, in the end.
I now think that's what he was trying to hint he was doing - that's the first thing he said in his response to my Case. I totally missed it at the time, and wouldn't have made the connection on the re-read except I know the name of his abilities now. If he was trying to avoid Scumhunting to dodge night kills, he went too far that direction and seemed too Scummy. He and I share the responsibility for his death, because I didn't make up his behavior that I called him on, and I am supposed to be challenging Scummy behavior and trying to determine who's the most likely Scum. He really seemed Scummy to me, for reasons I detailed here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4742299#msg4742299). He responded to my charges here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4742930#msg4742930), in a way that looked even Scummier to me, which I explained in my answer to his response here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4745538#msg4745538). I'm mad that he acted so Scummy while being Town.
notquitethere:
Can somebody explain to me why everyone suddenly upped and jumped on TolyK? Why did you all move your votes in unison?
I can explain my role in it. I didn't move my vote, I saw TolyK as the Scummiest player but was preparing to change my vote to tie break soon (the vote count had a 3-way tie with 2 votes each for Birdy, TolyK, and Nerjin with 5 hours on the clock when I started considering a compromise vote)
Before I decided I'd better compromise because no one else was, Birdy added his vote. Then Nerjin appeared to double vote (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4746092#msg4746092). Nerjin had seemed probably Town to me before that point and I still haven't sorted out what I think about that vote theft. At that time, I could live with a Birdy lynch (lean towards him being Scum) and say so (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4746486#msg4746486) (note that I have a typo in that, in paragraph where I talk about Birdy I say "I can still live with a Nerjin lynch" - I meant "I can still live with a Birdy lynch" - I had Nerjin on the mind, I'd never seen a double vote before).
When I saw this:
I'm actually a bit more ambivalent about a Nerjin lynch right now, but I'm honestly not sure. I think the best course of action is lynching Birdy. He's not my first pick for scum, but his death would be much better than a tie and I don't think a Nerjin lynch is possible right now.
Just some final thoughts before the reveal from any player who's able was what I was asking for I suppose.
I responded:
And what are your thoughts on TolyK?
I haven't thought about him too much, to be honest! One of the problems with me trying to focus on questioning a narrower band of people. His RVS questions were odd. He's been more active than most lurkers, but for some reason he doesn't at all stick in my mind as an active player of this game- I haven't seen much pressuring or scumhunting from his side of things. Aaaand... that is a huge post on your end about his scumminess (that is a word, spell check.)
I'd absolutely agree that he seems to be actively lurking, as opposed to the lurking lurkers of the game- it's definitely more suspicious than, say, Tiruin's absence from the game. Birdy did seem a lot more invested in the game than Toly, and right now I'm thinking Toly is scummier. Is it too late to lynch a different dude?
From there I tracked the voting and tried to counter confusion - people can't make a choice, or even think about good and bad choices for a situation they don't understand.
Birdy:
Birdy, why do you think you haven't been targeted for any night kills?
Likely because I had made too much of a fuss. To put it simply, I'm not an easy target.
What does your "made too much of a fuss" have to do with "not [being] an easy [night kill] target"?
When you say "made too much of a fuss", are you talking about your posts in this thread or something else?
The only way I could advance the Town Wincon, is to prevent my own death and allow myself a chance to take a Night Action. Assuming I'm still alive in the morning (Which, at this point is probably a fat chance), I should have some rudimentary information to work with.
Regardless, my death should provide some information for the Town to work with. Hopefully, my corpse can be used as a stepping stone for further operations.
@Birdy51I am confident I can find something over night. My role power is conducive to something like that happening. I'll vote myself if I fail to find anything.
Get to voting boy. I'll help you along, Birdy51. I am still certain that you're scum.
I did find something, it's just that the something is not a lot to go off of. At the time, I was hoping for a more definitive result, but it's clear I missed my mark.
I am too tired right now to form a coherent question about this, so posting it as a reminder to myself to ask about it. The core of my question is that I want Birdy to explain his thinking/reasoning/rationale/expectations as to why he felt that his survival through morning of D2 was "the only way [he] could advance the Town Wincon".
Birdy, if you get around to explaining that before I have time to properly phrase the question(s), that'll be great. If not, clearer question(s) about it when I can.
Nerjin:
If you're so positive Birdy is scum then why aren't you presenting a case and putting a lynch vote down?
You don't read do you? My case has already been presented and I AM voting him, demonstrated thusly:@Birdy51
[. . .]
Get to voting boy. I'll help you along, Birdy51. I am still certain that you're scum.
That 'vote' is in a quote, hence why I didn't. It's not legal but I gather that it was intended.
My apologies then. I didn't realize it was in the quote.
You haven't repeated your vote outside of a quote yet, so technically you're not voting for anyone currently. Is that your intention?
How do you feel now that you know TolyK was town? Do you have a second suspect or were you too busy writing Encyclopedia’s about TolyK to notice a second person?
See my answer to Cheeetar for the first answer. I have other suspects, and will make a list of Town/Scum leanings on everyone before end of day, but I'm going to postpone that for now because I'm really tired.
Toaster:
I need to reread that post flood at day end, but I would like to claim one thing. I have a two-shot protect, and I used one of them on Hapah last night. Either he attracted two kills or one that bypassed protection.
Why did you pick Hapah to protect, and why protect Happa N1?
TheWetSheep:
I wanted his reactions. Others' reactions are great too. To my interpretation, he had 'danced' through the game. He had joked, evaded, misrepresented, and shown almost nothing about his motives save that he wanted to appear to be Scumhunting and to 'have something big coming later'. I gave him a wide choice of things to react to.
I continued Scumhunting with numbered points 1-4; everything I did in interaction with him was Scumhunting. I wanted his reactions, I wanted to feel and analyze our interactions. I wanted his answers too.
Why did you accuse him of rolefishing?The same - I wanted his reaction. I don't know if he was rolefishing or not - I don't understand if rolefishing in a BYOR is even Scummy - I'm not sure that roles make it clear what your alignment or even powers are. I don't know why he decided to say to me, "It makes you look as if you're trying to make yourself look like a fluffy bunny that's asking for help. Don't you agree?"
All I know is his reaction (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4735812#msg4735812) to my words. More dancing, more 'say what?' about his Scumminess. More information, scant though it was, to attempt to evaluate his intentions and motives on.
It's interesting that you spend 887 words accusing him of wasting time.
Do you think that an accusation with more words is better than the same accusation put more concisely?
No. Some people are adroit with brevity, others are naturally verbose. I am verbose, and I am trying to limit that. However I will say what I have to say regardless of if that needs 50 words or 5,000.
TolyK appeared to respond weirdly and evasively in close to every interaction he had with each player in this game, to be focused on something other than Scumhunting and I wanted to gauge his reaction to my words. I did not "spend 887 words accusing him of wasting time"; I used the words I needed to interact with him and offer him a range to respond to, because I wished to evaluate his motives and intentions both in seeing how he reacted, and what he reacted too.
notquitethere:
There's no way I'd feel comfortable with you in Lylo with how you're posting, analyzing, and playing, no matter what your alignment is.Is this how you usually pick a lynch candidate?
Not yet; as that was the 4th lynch I've participated in I don't really have a 'usually' yet. I had recently realized that lylo play is very different from pre-lylo play, and the same strategies that (at least newbies might use to) pick who to vote for on D1 might be deadly stupid in Lylo.
That got me thinking that in a sense, everything that happens before Lylo/Mylo might be a form of 'jury selection', the day lynch and the night kill somewhat akin to the prosecution and defense lawyers asking prospective jurors questions that might reveal biases - each side (and the judge) with a certain number of people they are allowed to excuse as they search for a jury that they can both live with - those that one side most likes are likely to be nixed by the other side, and the people that neither side really likes (but neither side is willing to waste a limited reserve of rejections on) are the ones most likely to actually sit on the case.
How much that applies to Mafia, I'm still thinking about.
Hapah:
Quote from: ImpHapah: Pretty early in the game you asked a question about what one could learn about playing Mafia without playing the game. Have you found that the skills and ways of thinking that you use for Mafia are pretty useless and really different from what you use in the other parts of your life?I'll answer, but I'd love to know what you hoped to learn from my response. Most of my real life skills translate into Mafia okay, but not much of my Mafia-specific stuff translates out to my real life, if that makes any sense. It's mostly because in Mafia you have to be extremely cynical and critical, always looking for the deception, always trying to determine motives behind actions (which is the one thing that's really bled out into my real life, on reflection). I'm simply not that kind of person most of the time, but you have to have that mindset when you're in the game.
I hoped to learn how I might best translate your world- and game-view against my perspectives. Your question was one I would never have thought to ask, because I see tons of connections between real life skills and Mafia skills. Granted, I haven't had much time to notice any Mafia-only skills yet - but the question you asked, "What could one learn about playing Mafia without playing Mafia"- I see so many things IRL that could improve Mafia play, from becoming a better typist, taking psychology or self defense or logic classes, reading old Mafia games, interacting with real life liars... the list is so much longer. I wanted your perspective on why what you asked wasn't obvious to you in the hopes it would help me understand how you think, thus what you may mean when you post. (people who think very differently from yourself may mean totally different things when they communicate than how you interpret it to be).
Post by: birdy51 on November 12, 2013, 10:56:51 am
However, I am reading the thread still, so I'll to answer your questions when it's both expedient and reasonable for me to do so. To answer one of your questions Nerjin, I am still seeking a replacement. That much hasn't changed.
Post by: Toaster on November 12, 2013, 12:36:56 pm
I need to reread that post flood at day end, but I would like to claim one thing. I have a two-shot protect, and I used one of them on Hapah last night. Either he attracted two kills or one that bypassed protection.Curious. You seem to be ruling out being blocked or redirected, so I guess you got a success message on the protect?
I got no message, which in Wuba games means "Your action was successful, as far as you know." I did confirm this via PM. This means that blocks are out, but redirections (and delays) are possible.
Imp:
Toaster:I need to reread that post flood at day end, but I would like to claim one thing. I have a two-shot protect, and I used one of them on Hapah last night. Either he attracted two kills or one that bypassed protection.
Why did you pick Hapah to protect, and why protect Happa N1?
Hapah I consider one of the better players in game, and one I had a reasonably good read on. As for why then, it was the best action choice at this part of the game.
Birdy: If you are still looking for a replacement, you probably should make it more obvious, since it's not in the thread title.
For my own purposes, I've annotated the vote shenanigans of D1's end. Someone else might find it useful, so it's below.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
There's a couple things to be sussed out from that, but one's quite obvious.
Tiruin: Please explain your TolyK vote here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4746695#msg4746695), especially commenting on why you voted TolyK then mostly talked about Birdy and Nerjin- especially your apparent negative view of Nerjin.
Post by: Teneb on November 12, 2013, 04:39:12 pm
Cheetar, for the reasons of D1, plus that wierd mass vote switch. I am aware people have already gone over this but if neither birdy nor TolyK was one of your scumpicks, why did you vote them? After all, if you think them to not be scum, why would you want them to die? Nerjin was your top pick for scum at the time, or so it seemed, and at the time of the vote madness he was one of the most voted around. Even if you were having your doubts about his scumness, wouldn't it make sense to keep your vote on him, rather than another player you did not feel was scum?
Extend, I pretty much missed nearly two days.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 12, 2013, 06:09:01 pm
Small post due to a storm making both internet and electricity unstable:
Cheetar, for the reasons of D1, plus that wierd mass vote switch. I am aware people have already gone over this but if neither birdy nor TolyK was one of your scumpicks, why did you vote them? After all, if you think them to not be scum, why would you want them to die? Nerjin was your top pick for scum at the time, or so it seemed, and at the time of the vote madness he was one of the most voted around. Even if you were having your doubts about his scumness, wouldn't it make sense to keep your vote on him, rather than another player you did not feel was scum?
Extend, I pretty much missed nearly two days.
Lazy. Top scumpicks, not scumpicks in general. Plus, just voting a single dude forever and never changing your mind is kind of stupid, and I'm not going to be doing that. There're a few questions other people left you, Deathsword, would you answer those?
Also, here's where I kinda answered this earlier, for your benefit:
Neither of the people who were likely to be lynched were my top picks for scum, but they'd both acted scummily in the past. However, Birdy was startingly towny in the face of his upcoming death, and (upon being asked to consider Toly as scum) I took a quick look over what he'd said and how he'd acted and I saw him as more scummy than Birdy, so I swapped my vote to him when it was sure that doing so wouldn't tie the vote.
Post by: TheWetSheep on November 12, 2013, 10:41:37 pm
3 posts with nothing but “Not posting just yet” and a “Convince me” like he’s the emporer of Oz. Then his most recent post he actually switches gears and goes after Imp!
Quote
Summary: TWS is very lazy and lurks far too much for my liking.Do you think this maybe had something to do with the business with school that I mentioned multiple times? I do.
Quote
So you stuck with Birdy because you're lazy? That's good to hear except that... No. That's not good enough. What did you see late-day that changed your mind so entirely? Oh, and this better be a good one since you were confident enough in Birdy's scumhood to lazily tunnel him the entire day.Not having time =/= lazy. And I don't have anything hard and fast "this is a town tell, Birdy is town" from day end, more of a general feeling of towniness, and I tend to trust my gut feelings. I trust his claim.
This is justification after your initial vote. You never mentioned any of this in your posts before day end.Ugh... I detest voting what is now essentially a hammer vote, being a hypocrite, and going against my words. But as it stands, if the day were to end right now it would be a No Lynch, which is arguably a pretty poor arrangement.
So, given that I'm not overly bothered by TolyK and I won't vote for myself, I'll throw my vote on Nerjin. I do agree with [him] though. With as many people who aren't active, it may be a good time to move onto Day 2. This time there will not be an extension from me.
That said, if one passes, I'll revert to no voting, and let those who are still actively participating take care of business. But at some point we do have to move forward.
This point right here is what threw me into a red-alert faze. Not because I'm being voted. But because of the reasoning. Remember Birdy51 had asked for a replacement. Yet they seem pretty keen on staying in the game and have posted quite a bit. They just throw their vote on me like a piece of cold bologna and then say "I don't really believe in this but we don't have enough active players so let's go onto Day 2." They proceed to vote one of the more active players with no reason given other than "Let's get this over with." They do later rescind this vote but only after being called out on it.
Imp:
TheWetSheep:
I continued Scumhunting with numbered points 1-4; everything I did in interaction with him was Scumhunting. I wanted his reactions, I wanted to feel and analyze our interactions. I wanted his answers too.
You consider this scumhunting?
None the less, if I am a rabbit you role fisher, you'd best consider me the Monty Python version, at least to Scum like yourself. Beware the cute ones (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KillerRabbit).I consider it fluff. How were you expecting to get a telling reaction from it?
You on the other hand. Considering how you play games, are you trying to clue us in to having picked Elmer Fudd as your role choice, in a "Shhh. Be vewy vewy quiet, I'm hunting wabbits" sort of way?
Newp. "Oh, you dubbuh-cwossing wabbit! You tweachewous miscweant!" is all I have to say to your Scummy side.
Quote
So I'm justified in saying you've been bandwagoning, lying, and buddying? I don't know whether you have been or not. Picking a random scumtell and throwing it at somebody to make your case bigger doesn't work too well. And it doesn't seem like you - you usually have well-supported arguments and cases.Why did you accuse him of rolefishing?The same - I wanted his reaction. I don't know if he was rolefishing or not - I don't understand if rolefishing in a BYOR is even Scummy - I'm not sure that roles make it clear what your alignment or even powers are. I don't know why he decided to say to me, "It makes you look as if you're trying to make yourself look like a fluffy bunny that's asking for help. Don't you agree?"
Quote
I used the words I needed to interact with him and offer him a range to respond to, because I wished to evaluate his motives and intentions both in seeing how he reacted, and what he reacted too.That's an easy thing to say. It doesn't change the fact that I see your post as containing a whole bunch of fluff to make it look bigger.
Cheeetar: Why no vote on Deathsword?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 12, 2013, 10:50:52 pm
Cheeetar: Why no vote on Deathsword?
Waiting for Birdy to reply to my questions. I only want to vote for people I think are definitely scum for Day 2- Deathsword reads as lazy more than scum, although I reserve the right to change my opinion if he keeps not answering the stuff people direct at him.
Post by: Shakerag on November 12, 2013, 11:42:31 pm
[Off topic: Good luck with the grave thing kiddo. Things like that can be hard.Thanks. It was about as hard as I imagined it would be. I'll be back in business tomorrow.
Post by: notquitethere on November 13, 2013, 09:38:20 am
Almost resigned.Stick at it Imp and in about ten games time if you're paying attention you'll be a master at this.
I'm also mad at him for acting so Scummily and being Town. Even knowing he is Town now, I read back over D1 and his behavior doesn't look like Town behavior to me.I think the problem isn't necessarily with TolyK here but in your understanding of what constitutes scum-behaviour. A lot of town players coast in Day 1, probably because there's little of note to discuss and there's almost always a mislynch. Still, I note that he never even pressed a proper case despite other people pressuring him. He wasn't the most terrible Day 1 target.
That got me thinking that in a sense, everything that happens before Lylo/Mylo might be a form of 'jury selection', the day lynch and the night kill somewhat akin to the prosecution and defense lawyers asking prospective jurors questions that might reveal biases - each side (and the judge) with a certain number of people they are allowed to excuse as they search for a jury that they can both live with - those that one side most likes are likely to be nixed by the other side, and the people that neither side really likes (but neither side is willing to waste a limited reserve of rejections on) are the ones most likely to actually sit on the case.That's not a bad analogy, except, of course scum have a wider pool of people they can trust to behave in a way favourable to their wincon at LYLO.
Toaster
I got no message, which in Wuba games means "Your action was successful, as far as you know." I did confirm this via PM. This means that blocks are out, but redirections (and delays) are possible.I see. Not sure if you've answered this yet, but what made you decide to claim?
Thanks for compiling in one place the end of Day 1 vote-switch-fest.
Tiruin— how do you feel about Nerjin and Birdy? What are your reads on them?
Cheetar— Deathsword, does have one point. Your vote was on Nerjin and then when you swapped votes to the player Nerjin had voted. Why did you sheep the vote of a player you thought was scum?
Post by: webadict on November 13, 2013, 09:59:50 am
------------------------
birdy51 -
Cheeetar - Deathsword,
Deathsword - notquitethere,
Imp - TheWetSheep,
Nerjin -
notquitethere -
Shakerag -
The_Iqovian -
TheWetSheep -
Tiruin -
Toaster -
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Toaster, Shakerag, Imp, Tiruin, Cheeetar, Nerjin, birdy51, The_Iqovian,
6 To Hammer. Day ends Wednesday 8 PM Central.
Post by: birdy51 on November 13, 2013, 10:05:29 am
There are still quite a few things that need discussed before nightfall.
Nerjin
Okay, had lunch, went out and did some stuff. Realized my intense paranoia about Birdy51 was helping on one. So now I’m back and ready to do rereads. Just like last time I shall be putting a summary of my two earlier posts on the person at the beginning of their spoiler. For obvious reasons I shall be excluding Hapah and TolyK in this read. {Hint: It’s because they’re dead and town.}Spoiler: @Birdy51 (click to show/hide)
PPE: Birdy, you should know by now that I compile my views on EVERYONE before I post them in my "Read n' Post" or "Readstraveganza" [I like the former name better]. So worry not. Like the passive aggressiveness though. [Also, out of game note: Have fun with the show stuff!]
I probably should have known your penchant for longer posts yes. :P
However, my statement stands. I am Town, and I have absolutely no qualms with saying it at this point. Despite this, I am no any better of a Townie. Just saying it doesn't make it true, so your case and your suspicion is justified. There is not a trace of passive aggressiveness in that statement. It's just how things are.
Now, I've organized the questions and statements that needed responding to. Forgive for cherrypicking a bit on the statements, but when I do that I either answered the question earlier or silently disagree with you.
[1] No. My power did not give me insight into Toaster. However, as strong point is made that hiding the nature of what happened last night isn't going to help anyone, especially with his claim. I was Protected last night, and that was the only action taken upon me. That is the extent of my knowledge on the subject that isn't theory crafting.
[2] My basis of that comment is one thing.
A. I was fully expecting to die at that point in time. At those sort of moments in your life, you generally want to go ahead and give out any last reads. NQT has yet to address the fact that I never addressed him with an RVS question. That struck me as odd, especially given the caliber of player that NQT is. If he's Townie, he's being neglectful. If he's scum, he's avoiding stirring up any trouble that might cause people to bat an eye. Going through the motions is easy. Causing a stir is a bit more risky, as you have seen personified in myself.
That said, the main reason that I would rather not pursue the argument is the fact that I'm trying to get out the door before Les Miserables smashes it down and uses said door as a part of the barricade. I would rather not have any replacement of mine's game even further altered by even more shenanigans on my part.
[3] I'll just go ahead and explain this one in detail. I'm already likely to be a target, but at least this time I can do something about it if I guess correctly.
It's called Rerun. It forces the target player to retake the action that they performed the night prior. Apply to a scum player, and voila! They would be forced to take the factional kill repeatedly… Over and over and over again. A groundhog's day nightmare.
[4] I am reasonably disappointed. I was hoping that I would be targeted by more people, but the scum team must have been smart enough to know that doctors will protect their cops.
[5] Yes.
[6] Also yes. I really just wanted the day to end. If I recall, you just wanted the day to end quickly as well. However, as it stood at that hour, all votes were tied. Other people weren't voting, so someone had to take action. I did take action and nearly took a bullet to the brain for it.
((That said… I regret nothing. That night was pretty awesome and it cheered me up significantly.))
Cheetar
Spoiler: Birdy51 (click to show/hide)
I as I mentioned to Nerjin… Doctors protect cops.
Imp
Birdy:Birdy, why do you think you haven't been targeted for any night kills?
Likely because I had made too much of a fuss. To put it simply, I'm not an easy target.
What does your "made too much of a fuss" have to do with "not [being] an easy [night kill] target"?
When you say "made too much of a fuss", are you talking about your posts in this thread or something else?The only way I could advance the Town Wincon, is to prevent my own death and allow myself a chance to take a Night Action. Assuming I'm still alive in the morning (Which, at this point is probably a fat chance), I should have some rudimentary information to work with.
Regardless, my death should provide some information for the Town to work with. Hopefully, my corpse can be used as a stepping stone for further operations.
@Birdy51I am confident I can find something over night. My role power is conducive to something like that happening. I'll vote myself if I fail to find anything.
Get to voting boy. I'll help you along, Birdy51. I am still certain that you're scum.
I did find something, it's just that the something is not a lot to go off of. At the time, I was hoping for a more definitive result, but it's clear I missed my mark.
I am too tired right now to form a coherent question about this, so posting it as a reminder to myself to ask about it. The core of my question is that I want Birdy to explain his thinking/reasoning/rationale/expectations as to why he felt that his survival through morning of D2 was "the only way [he] could advance the Town Wincon".
Birdy, if you get around to explaining that before I have time to properly phrase the question(s), that'll be great. If not, clearer question(s) about it when I can.
Theory time… Bear with me for a little bit.
I would like to assume that there is a certain level of scummitude some characters need to escape the wolves(Scum) and avoid frightening the lambs(Town). A players who accomplish both of these things, survives. For instance, take Hapah. I suspect that the only reason whatsoever he was killed, was that he was a wallflower. He wasn't taking risks, and caught the backhand of the scum team for it. I would dare anyone here to claim otherwise.
However, there is also such a thing as being "too Townie". If you truly establish yourself as a Townie, you’re also likely to wake up in the morning dead. This is why cops never claim, unless they are certain that they have found something. In my case however, I truly though I was lynchmeat. So at that point, there was nothing I felt that I needed to hide in order to live.
What I didn't expect, was that people were actually considering keeping me around in more ways than one. If I could escape the lynch with the claim that I was a cop, I fully expected the scum team to come running to kill me full throttle. Conversely, I knew there was likely a Townie who would want to keep me alive.
In other words, I could eat a NK attempt, know that someone tried to kill me, and thus take the necessary actions to figure who that person was. Unfortunately however, I caused too much trouble. They likely knew I was going to be protected… At least for tonight. That's what I meant for making too much of a fuss. A successful night kill on me would have been a dicey business.
I suppose that is the only reason I'm still here.
Toaster
Birdy: If you are still looking for a replacement, you probably should make it more obvious, since it's not in the thread title.
You're right. I have gone ahead and PMed Webadict about the matter.
Post by: Shakerag on November 13, 2013, 10:42:35 am
Catching up now.
Post by: notquitethere on November 13, 2013, 10:51:16 am
NQT has yet to address the fact that I never addressed him with an RVS question. That struck me as odd, especially given the caliber of player that NQT is. If he's Townie, he's being neglectful. If he's scum, he's avoiding stirring up any trouble that might cause people to bat an eye. Going through the motions is easy. Causing a stir is a bit more risky, as you have seen personified in myself.You're hardly unique in this respect: a lot of players that are probably town didn't specifically ask me RVS questions. Your general game-engagement has been above average all things considered but I'm still keeping tabs. If I live long enough I'll do some proper analysis and I'll get back to you if you're really as scummy as you seem to want me to think you might be.
Wait, who's replacing out? Is The Iqovian, who hasn't posted all day 2? Because if not, The Iqovian, you've got some explaining to do.
Post by: Toaster on November 13, 2013, 10:59:30 am
NQT:
ToasterI got no message, which in Wuba games means "Your action was successful, as far as you know." I did confirm this via PM. This means that blocks are out, but redirections (and delays) are possible.I see. Not sure if you've answered this yet, but what made you decide to claim?
I thought it'd be helpful information. I'm not a full-on doc so I'm not afraid to claim.
Birdy: You could have just said "I WIFOMed the scum team and the scum team is WIFOMing the town by not killing me" and saved quite a bit of time.
Cheeetar: I've noticed some things.
First, you voted TolyK (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4729819#msg4729819) initially for not posting. Later, you vote Nerjin (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4734035#msg4734035) for his voting Iqovian for low posting (and a couple other things.) This is an interesting reversal. You're fairly quiet, ostensibly waiting for Nerjin to respond to you (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4741839#msg4741839) without any serious pursuit of other leads. Once he responds, your response back to him (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4742005#msg4742005) makes it fairly clear you think he is scum.
Later, you jump onto Birdy (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4746415#msg4746415) from Nerjin, a bit apropos of nothing, given I didn't see any suspicion of Birdy earlier. Voting him for breaking a tie- especially away from himself- is not a very good reason to vote someone.
Birdy, why do you think you haven't been targeted for any night kills?
This is asking him to indulge in WIFOM and nothing more.
Imp, how do you feel about the person whose demise you orchestrated being town?(Emphasis mine)
This is a blame shift. You had quite a bit to do with that one:
Alright, I'll bite. If TWS is willing to vote Toly, I'll gladly change my vote. I'm assuming you will too, Imp?
It's close to the deadline, and I definitely don't want to have a tie vote. If we want to lynch Toly instead of Birdy, we're all going to have to change our votes.
Prospect of either a Birdy or a TolyK lynch, definitely wanting a TolyK one. Birdy I voted because he was being mildly suspicious and I didn't want a tie vote, although he's been fairly townie in the face of his possible death. Toly I'm voting because he's even more suspicious, and a better pick for scum upon reflection.
Everybody! I don't think we're fully using the results of the day 1 lynch or the day 2 nightkill. Look at who voted for Toly, and whose reasoning was weak- additionally, was there anybody who'd said they were suspicious of Toly but for some reason held back for voting for him? (Possibly to avoid suspicion when his alignment was discovered?) Why do you think Hapah was targeted for a scum kill?
And now you're really trying to spread that blame.
I'm not being a guardian- Nerjin was being legitimately scummy in the way he confirmed Iqo as '100% scum'. Encouraging Iqo to post more, however, is something I'm comfortable owning up to.
And now -contrary to the above- you're encouraging people with low post counts.
Birdy51
Last night, after claiming detective, you were either protected from night kill by a doctor (more likely) or you weren't targeted for night kill by scum. This means you can finally tell us how the hell your role works, instead of keeping it a secret from us, and why you couldn't perform last night- do you think you were roleblocked, or what? Keeping us in the dark isn't helping.
Oh yes, fish out that investigative role.
Post by: Nerjin on November 13, 2013, 11:37:20 am
Post by: Nerjin on November 13, 2013, 11:40:10 am
Post by: notquitethere on November 13, 2013, 11:43:34 am
Post by: birdy51 on November 13, 2013, 12:50:07 pm
BirdyNQT has yet to address the fact that I never addressed him with an RVS question. That struck me as odd, especially given the caliber of player that NQT is. If he's Townie, he's being neglectful. If he's scum, he's avoiding stirring up any trouble that might cause people to bat an eye. Going through the motions is easy. Causing a stir is a bit more risky, as you have seen personified in myself.You're hardly unique in this respect: a lot of players that are probably town didn't specifically ask me RVS questions. Your general game-engagement has been above average all things considered but I'm still keeping tabs. If I live long enough I'll do some proper analysis and I'll get back to you if you're really as scummy as you seem to want me to think you might be.
Wait, who's replacing out? Is The Iqovian, who hasn't posted all day 2? Because if not, The Iqovian, you've got some explaining to do.
Wait just a second... Why do I want you to perceive me as scummy?
And as a rebuff to your point, I addressed everyone save for you. Other people may do what they like with RVS questions, including the possibility of asking little to none. But, you were the only character I went out of my way to avoid.
Post by: notquitethere on November 13, 2013, 01:03:27 pm
Post by: birdy51 on November 13, 2013, 02:51:11 pm
Why did you go out of the way to avoid me Birdy? I have since come to the conclusion (now with good evidence from a game we can't discuss here) that asking everyone questions during the RVS isn't a reliable indicator of townness so I wasn't tracking that aspect of your behavior.
The reason I didn't direct any questions to you, and to avoid you when I could was to see if you would notice. Which you didn't, but as you said that's not a crime. Really, this whole matter comes down to how you respond to the question,"Why didn't you notice?". Frankly, your answer feels a bit convoluted. I still feel that I haven't received a straight answer as to why you didn't notice. You cite that asking RVS questions isn't a good way to find scum, but you've yet to actually say, "No, I missed that you said that" or "Yes, I did see it, but I decided that I had other things to worry about."
In fact, I still don't have an answer to that question. The responses you've given have been purely political, or devoid of any personal sense. Hell, you haven't even asked me why I chose you in particular yet. I think that is valid ground for suspicion.
Post by: Imp on November 13, 2013, 04:13:03 pm
Several things I'd like to ask about but I've got no time.
Extend please.
Post by: birdy51 on November 13, 2013, 04:16:14 pm
Post by: Shakerag on November 13, 2013, 04:35:45 pm
As far as I'm aware, I've answered all questions directed at me.Spoiler: @Shakerag (click to show/hide)
I'm usually busy-ish, so while my post count is low, I try to keep the content level high in each one to make them count.
Correction: I thought TolyK was scum due to how he reacted about me pressuring him about the SK thing.
birdy51 - Feeling less town - Could be fakeclaiming; a lot of focus on why he wasn't killed at night
Cheeetar - Feeling more scum - Vote shifting at D1 end was suspicious; Nothing I could say that Toaster hasn't said better
Deathsword - Nothing much to make a good read on, shifting slightly scum due to low content (environmental reasons for that possibly, but I'll watch for improvement)
Imp - Slightly moving toward scum - Making a bit of a production over TolyK flipping town; feels kind of panic-y/defensive
Nerjin - Feeling more town - Town or really convincing scum
notquitethere - Slightly moving toward scum - Wordy and talking theory, but that's kind of standard from what I've seen
The_Iqovian - Seems to have disappeared? - Still possibly newbie to somewhat scum
TheWetSheep - Slightly moving toward scum - I think his case on Imp is poor
Tiruin - No real change - Neutral - Seems busy
Toaster - No real change - Has some good, interesting points against Cheeetar, but still not posing a lot
Cheeetar:
Why did you feel that Tiruin was "saving the day"?I just came back from class! Appreciation of art needs more appreciation! D:< Oh, and work. Work. x_x
But yeah, sorry for my absence :X
It's not so bad. Your last minute saving the day (I hope!) has had a huge impact on the game.
birdy51:
I can't imagine anyone else who managed to make so many gaffes in one day and manage somehow get away with it."somehow get away with it." That's kind of interesting wording. I'd like to think that if you were town, you would have said "to not get mislynched" instead of "somehow get away with it."
Also, this:
I have committed Occum's Razor by saying this, but I am confident I can find something over night. My role power is conducive to something like that happening. I'll vote myself if I fail to find anything.That's a pretty easy deal on your behalf. I don't know what abilities your scumbuddies have, but I bet from what you've said that you were pretty confident that all of you together could come up with something. Maybe one of your scumbuddies even did use a protect on you as an alibi.
NQT:
I know whenever I learn anything as town from my night actions, if it doesn't put anyone in danger I like to share it: the more information town has before you die the better.So does that mean you're scum? Or that you didn't learn anything last night?
Also, why did you switch your vote off Deathsword before he had really answered your questions?
[OOC: I try, thanks.]
Post by: Imp on November 13, 2013, 05:38:44 pm
D2 vote counts haven't shown number needed to extend yet, but we need 6 to hammer today - we may need 6 for an extention too.
Vote count looks like this to me atm:
The_Iqovian: NQT
Imp: TheWetSheep
Cheetar: Deathsword, Toaster
Birdy51: Nerjin, Shakerag
There's about 4.5 hours before end of day if it doesn't extend.
I'd like more time to reread the thread and to ask a few questions, but if the extension doesn't happen the vote's currently tied.
In case, voting Birdy51. He was approximately my 2nd to 3rd Scum pick D1 (about tied with The_Iquovian) and would have been my compromise vote if I'd had to break a tie then. D2 posts haven't changed my read of him much.
Post by: Shakerag on November 13, 2013, 05:56:01 pm
Post by: Tiruin on November 13, 2013, 05:57:15 pm
I'm a floppy fish. :'(
Will. Post. Later.
Post by: Nerjin on November 13, 2013, 06:00:52 pm
Anyway sure
Extend
That should be enough right?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 13, 2013, 07:13:59 pm
It's called Rerun. It forces the target player to retake the action that they performed the night prior. Apply to a scum player, and voila! They would be forced to take the factional kill repeatedly… Over and over and over again. A groundhog's day nightmare.
This is very odd. Did Webadict tell you that was how the action worked on scum players, or did you deduce that from the description? Do all the scum players collectively take the same night action to mafiakill somebody, which you can then repeat over and over again by targeting one specific person in the mafia?
Spoiler: NQT (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Birdy51 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Tiruin (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Toaster (click to show/hide)
Feel free to accuse me of bandwagoning on Birdy51, but I'll be voting him until he actually answers my post.
Deathsword, do you have anything more to contribute for this Day, or are you just gonna stay quiet now that you've dropped your vote on someone?
Spoiler: OOC (click to show/hide)
Post by: Teneb on November 13, 2013, 07:17:31 pm
You mean this?:Small post due to a storm making both internet and electricity unstable:
Cheetar, for the reasons of D1, plus that wierd mass vote switch. I am aware people have already gone over this but if neither birdy nor TolyK was one of your scumpicks, why did you vote them? After all, if you think them to not be scum, why would you want them to die? Nerjin was your top pick for scum at the time, or so it seemed, and at the time of the vote madness he was one of the most voted around. Even if you were having your doubts about his scumness, wouldn't it make sense to keep your vote on him, rather than another player you did not feel was scum?
Extend, I pretty much missed nearly two days.
Lazy. Top scumpicks, not scumpicks in general. Plus, just voting a single dude forever and never changing your mind is kind of stupid, and I'm not going to be doing that. There're a few questions other people left you, Deathsword, would you answer those?
and this:Spoiler: @Deathsword (click to show/hide)
Deathsword— you're a bit quiet. Any thoughts on the end of Day 1? Still think Nerjin has a good argument and Cheetar is scum?Then let me give a thorough answer to them.
My top scumpicks are you, Cheeetar, and Iqovian. Just as it was D1. I do agree with Nerjin's arguments on both, and, as I stated in my first D2 post, I think that voting clusterfuck was quite "wierd", for lack of a better term. There was something off, with it.
Allow me to restate the case on you (Cheeetar), as I see it:
You fiercely defended Iqovian, for no apparent reason, agaist every single attack, you switched your vote at D1's end from your then-scumpick to the person your scumpick was voting, come D2 you try to make Imp look guilty by using TolyK's lynch: a lynch you took part in, despite the fact that you had absolutely no case against him other than "the vote was tied".
Also, what do you think of the unpresence of your buddy on D2?
Ninjaedit: Well, I was going to post right now, Cheeetar, but your ugly post interrupted that. Is your buddy going to contribute for this Day too?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 13, 2013, 07:25:01 pm
You fiercely defended Iqovian, for no apparent reason, agaist every single attack, you switched your vote at D1's end from your then-scumpick to the person your scumpick was voting, come D2 you try to make Imp look guilty by using TolyK's lynch: a lynch you took part in, despite the fact that you had absolutely no case against him other than "the vote was tied".
Also, what do you think of the unpresence of your buddy on D2?
Ninjaedit: Well, I was going to post right now, Cheeetar, but your ugly post interrupted that. Is your buddy going to contribute for this Day too?
Fiercely defended is a misnomer. I attacked Nerjin for scummy reasoning (this person is scum definitely because look! A joke!), and I changed my mind (shocking, I know) when somebody did something scummy and I could see I wasn't getting anywhere with what I was doing at the time. My case against Toly was never 'the vote was tied' (where did you get that from?) and I'll encourage you to actually re-read what happened. Is that seriously why I'm your top scumpick?
Iqovian not being around is annoying. He said he could be around, and now he can't, and I'm annoyed at him. A mod kill or being replaced would be the best solution.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 13, 2013, 08:22:32 pm
In any case, that was a catchup post; next is reviewing everything and exercising my democratic right to vote.
Post by: webadict on November 14, 2013, 12:05:55 am
Post by: The_Iqovian on November 14, 2013, 07:22:31 am
Oh and just by the by, isn't it rather odd that Nerjin can only do maths when it suits him?
I mean, Birdy and I were in the exact same position votes wise at the end of day 1, but he denied being able to lynch me. Looks like he's trying to keep me alive to pin blame on me at a later date.
Nerjin: He can do maths and take jokes, but only when it suits his interests. Your local scumteam, ladies and gentlemen!
(Also, 'Rape you with a knife'? Seriously, not cool dude. 'I'll kill you all in your sleep', 'I while see you burn', etc, etc, these would have been fine (for a given value of fine). But you went right to the raping didn't you?)
And another thing! Your power, Silver Tongue wasn't it? That's much more of a villainous power than something someone who'd end up on team would have. People like Saruman, Lucifer or the Master have silver tongues, it's not the sort of power a goody gets.
And, so, I bid you all goodbye, and I hope my replacement is better than me.
Post by: webadict on November 14, 2013, 08:53:25 am
Post by: birdy51 on November 14, 2013, 08:59:45 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Mark this my dear friends, mark this. I suspect that not everyone currently voting for me is a townie. I doubt that people are just now realizing that I say silly things on occasion, or that I am not the best at explaining details. Nay, bear in mind that some people may be legitimately worried. I suspect that the main reasons why I am being voted for are not what they appear to be. They are to apply further pressure to force me over the edge.
Fortunately, I quite frankly don't give a damn.
The only thing that bothers me, is that I am entirely indisposed between Thursday and Saturday, so I won't be able to leaf through and answer questions, and get down to the heart of why I am really being accused of being scum. I shall instead be on stage singing the majority of my next few days. I shall toss out an EXTEND now as I will need it.
Now, as a broad generalization, I think some of these votes are a reaction to what I've said recently, or what someone else has said recently. It could be for many reasons, but these are those off the top of my head.
1). My case on NQT has traction, and they are chainsawing for him.
2). My ability Rerun scares the scum team. Yes, I can force one of the members of the scumteam to take their factional kill over and over on what is now essentially a corpse. Obviously, this would mean I could block any further NKs by the Scum Team if I guess correctly, and therefore keep the scum in check. I have asked Wuba about this one by the way.
3). They are worried about Cheeetar, who may or may not be scum. Personally, I lean towards no, although the rolefishing isn't exactly helping. (On that note, if your entire case rests upon me taking the time to tell you the nitty gritty of my role, you really don't have your priorities straight. Start answering other people's questions.)
Anyways, that is my early morning news. Kent Brockman News will be off-air until we can get the actors off the set. Thank you for your patience.
Edit: Loverly... It seems I shall have to consider rescinding my replacement bet... I would rather not allow myself to be killed off when I still have a bit to offer. Besides, I'm somehow managing a higher activity rate than other players, and I have a performance coming. How's that for irony?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 14, 2013, 09:09:58 am
Post by: notquitethere on November 14, 2013, 09:15:41 am
The reason I didn't direct any questions to you, and to avoid you when I could was to see if you would notice. Which you didn't, but as you said that's not a crime. Really, this whole matter comes down to how you respond to the question,"Why didn't you notice?". Frankly, your answer feels a bit convoluted. I still feel that I haven't received a straight answer as to why you didn't notice. You cite that asking RVS questions isn't a good way to find scum, but you've yet to actually say, "No, I missed that you said that" or "Yes, I did see it, but I decided that I had other things to worry about."I saw your suspicions, but I didn't have a chance to post a reply before the end of Day 1, and to be honest I was mostly caught up with the end of Day 1 stuff to remember to write a late response.
In fact, I still don't have an answer to that question. The responses you've given have been purely political, or devoid of any personal sense. Hell, you haven't even asked me why I chose you in particular yet. I think that is valid ground for suspicion.It's pretty obvious why you chose me, as I'm the only player of mafia who cares about stuff like that. There you were testing me to see whether or not I was quite notquitethere enough. I didn't notice that you hadn't specifically directed an RVS question to me but you did do everyone else because I haven't been tracking that metric in this game.
Shake
NQT:It means I either didn't learn anything last night or I learned something that wouldn't be in the interests of town to share. If I learn something safe and useful, I'll share.I know whenever I learn anything as town from my night actions, if it doesn't put anyone in danger I like to share it: the more information town has before you die the better.So does that mean you're scum? Or that you didn't learn anything last night?
Also, I switched my vote off of Deathsword because he answered my question in his very next post.
I'm glad that Iquovian posted his response before replacing out. As he's probably going to be modkilled, I might as well switch off his lynch until we hear more about his possible replacement.
Sheep— you going to grace us with your presence?
Post by: Nerjin on November 14, 2013, 10:21:05 am
And another thing! Your power, Silver Tongue wasn't it? That's much more of a villainous power than something someone who'd end up on team would have. People like Saruman, Lucifer or the Master have silver tongues, it's not the sort of power a goody gets.
It's called 'Smooth Talk'. Once again. I am a loyal patriot who fights for a greater cause. Though it would have been neat to play as some of those people I'm not quite so hard to figure out as that. Anyways, I see you get a double vote. That's kind of interesting.
I got The_Iqovian and birdy51 asking for replacements. Which basically means no one will replace them and I'll probably end up modkilling them. JUST LETTING YOU ALL KNOW THAT THIS ISN'T EVEN A NEW THING FOR ME! I'm actually more surprised by games WITHOUT replacements!
So if I were to, say, try to take one of The Iquovian's votes and then he's night killed do I get to keep the vote?
Vote Count
------------------------
birdy51 - Nerjin, Shakerag, Imp, Cheetar, (4)
Cheeetar - Deathsword, Toaster, (2)
Deathsword -
Imp - TheWetSheep, (1)
Nerjin - The Iquovian, the Iquovian (2)
notquitethere -
Shakerag -
The_Iqovian -
TheWetSheep - NotQuiteThere (1)
Tiruin -
Toaster -
No Lynch -
Not Voting -Tiruin, birdy51,
6 To Hammer. Day ends Friday ??? ?M Central.
Is there a reason you haven't voted yet Birdy/Tiruin? If that IS your real name?
Post by: webadict on November 14, 2013, 11:45:35 am
So if I were to, say, try to take one of The Iquovian's votes and then he's night killed do I get to keep the vote?I dunno. Maybe. Do you have a power that does that? Because if you do have a power that does that, then that might work. Otherwise, if you don't have a power that does that, then that might not work. It really depends on whether you have a power that does that. All I can tell from this perspective is that that seems like a question you might want to PM to the mod, as it might just contain information that is only acknowledgable through PMs. Or maybe it doesn't. I don't really know. I don't have access to top secret information when I'm not in a PM. Or do I?!? I'll have to PM myself to find out.
Post by: birdy51 on November 14, 2013, 02:24:19 pm
Birdy! Some of the people voting for you are scum- would you mind saying perhaps who you think they might be, rather than ominously warning of it? My reason for my 'rolefishing' on you is that you've already claimed investigator. What exactly does scum gain by knowing the mysterious secrets~ of your investigations? The only thing I can see is you saying "I am cop but I cannot tell you anything about how it works or why it didn't work but just trust me guys I'm cop".
*Birdy51 facepalms himself.*
I honestly do not have the time to go around pursuing my own little observations. Someone is likely not voting because they think I am scum. Someone is voting me, because they want me out of the way.
I have enough to explain this part of my argument, so I will. Perhaps sneak some responses into these observations. I don't know. I started typing and these paragraphs billowed out of my mouth like plumes of vomit. Enjoy.
- Shakerag's argument is grasping at straws, and isn't fully grounded in reality. His theorycrafting is all that his using as evidence against me. He's attempting to justify his vote, but honestly it's a lot of fluff and loaded questions. I mean really, the man can't identify normal figures of speech from abnormal ones. "Mislynch" is a cold, formal word. I was excited at that moment in time, so I opted to use more street worthy phrases. Beyond that, he makes the assumption that I actually have friends. Hoo boy, that is a good one. Aside from Tiruin and NQT, I think everyone has voted for me at some point in this game, normally with near lethal consequences . I suppose that would make them my scumbuddies too then?
- Imp, hasn't even bothered to make an argument, claiming that he's apparently always seen me as scummy. How convenient for him…
- You are asking me to compromise my ability to investigate by explaining how they happen. Why would a Townie rightfully need to know how another player uses his investigative powers? There is nothing to gain from this, other than to satisfy your need for information. Rather, by explaining how it works I end up with the possibility of screwing myself over, due to the scum team knowing how to avoid being investigated by me. Thus, I have decided that I refuse to tell you anything further on the matter, unless you can justify yourself. How would the Town directly benefit from me claiming further? I don't want here a word about the scum team right now. How would the TOWN benefit from that information?
- NQT for all intents and purposes has been a bit… disconnected. Honestly, I don't know what he's doing, and if I had the time I would pursue the matter further. I'm starting to lead towards him not being one of the reasons why, simply because he seems so very far out of touch with this game right now. This part of my argument has lost traction in mind ever since I made my morning post. He no longer seems scummy. Just abnormally detached from the action.
- My opinion of Nerjin is changing rather rapidly, first with the realization that we have two double voters, and now secondly with the fact that he replaced the term "modkill" with "night kill" in his open PM. Someone has killing on the brain. I wonder why… Beyond that, he should also be in the know as to why I'm not voting. Silly man, we've been through that matter before.
These are arguments that I probably should be pursuing, but honestly I don't have time or the patience right now. Well... Sometimes I find time. I'm cooking this up while I have about an hour before practice, and I typed at least a good thirty minutes more than I wanted to. (it's the last day of Tech Week… After only Two days of actual Tech Week. It's rather frightening and there are still things that need worked out.) And yet… I'm somehow managing a somewhat decent margin of posts. I've seemingly invested myself into this game far too much to simply die by a modkill, especially since it's evident that a good portion of you seem to be hanging on my every word. (Or, if you would like, wanting to hang me with a rope made out of my words.)
I feel like my presence is somehow... Helpful, despite the numerous atrocities that spring forth from my lips. This raises an interesting point, so I may as well present it.
All:
Do you think it would be worth keeping me around? Should I rescind the replacement bid and make an attempt to return to play in full force? Or, would you prefer if I simply allow myself to be lynched/ modkilled?
Post by: Shakerag on November 14, 2013, 05:07:22 pm
birdy51:
- Shakerag's argument is grasping at straws, and isn't fully grounded in reality. His theorycrafting is all that his using as evidence against me. He's attempting to justify his vote, but honestly it's a lot of fluff and loaded questions. I mean really, the man can't identify normal figures of speech from abnormal ones. "Mislynch" is a cold, formal word. I was excited at that moment in time, so I opted to use more street worthy phrases. Beyond that, he makes the assumption that I actually have friends. Hoo boy, that is a good one. Aside from Tiruin and NQT, I think everyone has voted for me at some point in this game, normally with near lethal consequences . I suppose that would make them my scumbuddies too then?Nicely dissected. I'm unvoting because it's kind of hard to maintain a pressure vote on someone who is maybe, possibly replacing out and will be largely unavailable otherwise. And with that response, there's nothing really left to pressure on anyway.
- You are asking me to compromise my ability to investigate by explaining how they happen. Why would a Townie rightfully need to know how another player uses his investigative powers? There is nothing to gain from this, other than to satisfy your need for information. Rather, by explaining how it works I end up with the possibility of screwing myself over, due to the scum team knowing how to avoid being investigated by me. Thus, I have decided that I refuse to tell you anything further on the matter, unless you can justify yourself. How would the Town directly benefit from me claiming further? I don't want here a word about the scum team right now. How would the TOWN benefit from that information?Since we don't know how your ability works exactly, I can't really judge whether or not revealing it would benefit scum. All I can say is that it is (to my knowledge) generally accepted that since in these games scum is the "informed minority" and town is the "uninformed majority", giving out information has a typically net benefit for town. Withholding information, on the other hand, can be seen as scummy. But that's just general principle stuff. If your inspect has some kind of condition on it that would cause it to be no longer effective if revealed, then I suppose I could understand not wanting to give that information away.
Having said that, Cheeetar does have a point in that without knowing exactly how your ability works that we can't completely trust what you say either as you could be fakeclaiming.
Because I am not convinced that you're scum, I would say that it would be better if you were not lynched/modkilled, but you need to make the call as to whether you can continue playing.
The_Iqovian's case on Nerjin feels paper-thin, especially since he has claimed a lack of time to read and participate in the game. But then double-votes Nerjin before he goes. And is trying to discern alignment from an ability name. An incorrect ability name. In a BYOR.
Cheeetar: Are you going to keep voting birdy51 even if he's up for replacement? If so, why?
Busy now, so I'll need to come back to this later/tomorrow.
Spoiler: OOC Hapah I am disappoint :( (click to show/hide)
Post by: Nerjin on November 14, 2013, 06:05:50 pm
- My opinion of Nerjin is changing rather rapidly, first with the realization that we have two double voters, and now secondly with the fact that he replaced the term "modkill" with "night kill" in his open PM. Someone has killing on the brain. I wonder why… Beyond that, he should also be in the know as to why I'm not voting. Silly man, we've been through that matter before.
Arguing semantics? Sorry, no purchase. Anyways sorry I forgot. It happens.
I'd prefer if you stuck around honestly [even though it looks like you're going to be dead soon] cause you do seem like a fun guy to play with.
Post by: Imp on November 14, 2013, 06:34:47 pm
Could we get an updated vote count please?
Nerjin:
It's possible that The_Iqovian has placed a double vote upon you - but it's also possible that he simply decided to use red when he wrote your name in those two different places. After all, you had me confused if you'd voted for birdy 1 time, 2 times, or even 4 times on D1...
....
Meph, can we please get an updated vote count/extend count/day end count?
We actually haven't had one since before the previous extend (and every vote change that Nerjin's done has happened SINCE that one)
I'm now wondering if Nerjin's got one vote, 2 votes (he actually used two, in a way in his first first voting post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4732803#msg4732803), once inside the spoiler, once outside.), or maybe even 4 votes - He used an unvote once, but since then he's voted for Birdy 4 times across 3 different posts.
....
Birdy:
I'll state my case asap. It's grown on D2. One thing I'm really wondering about, your 'Rerun' power - do you have to know who to use it on, or just that something happened?
Because you're talking about (or other people are talking about, and confused) that you could have forced the Scum nightkill to be used to kill the same player over and over without end, right? Is that how you understand that the power works?
So you could have prevented the Scum from nightkilling anyone else all game.
Are you saying you could have only used this if you had been the Scum target to kill? Are you saying that the night actions taken against you last night are forced to happen over and over again for the player(s) who took them?
Or are you saying that whomever is the night kill target, and whomever did that kill, you can force that to happen over and over?
If so, there is a night killed victim. Do you believe Hapah was a third party kill? Did something go wrong with your ability to find out who to place your rerun on? I'm just generally confused by your claim.
Post by: Imp on November 14, 2013, 06:39:19 pm
All:
Do you think it would be worth keeping me around? Should I rescind the replacement bid and make an attempt to return to play in full force? Or, would you prefer if I simply allow myself to be lynched/ modkilled?
I think your play has been quite adequate. There are others who have been able to post less than yourself, and they're not seeking replacement (or 'allowing themselves to be lynched').
You know how much you need to leave this game, and why. If it's hurting you to give the time you have been or will give - take the fast way out. If you're having fun and can stay, but think that the game deserves more than you have and can continue to give it - I say you're actually performing well and should stay unless you don't want to.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 14, 2013, 06:46:20 pm
Cheeetar: Are you going to keep voting birdy51 even if he's up for replacement? If so, why?
Yup! Apart from the fact that he's retracted his request for replacement in fear of being modkilled, if he was replaced I still think it'd be in town's best interests if his replacement told us how exactly this role was supposed to work.
I'm in possession of a healthy amount of doubt that Birdy's claim of investigator was entirely above board, and his reluctance to give out any details about it (even with a doctor hanging around) is the prime cause of it.
Post by: TheWetSheep on November 14, 2013, 07:22:50 pm
birdy51 - Feeling less town - Could be fakeclaiming; a lot of focus on why he wasn't killed at nightWhy are you calling him scum for talking about something that he was asked about? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4754569#msg4754569)
Quote
TheWetSheep - Slightly moving toward scum - I think his case on Imp is poorIf this is true, why aren't you pressuring me?
NQT:
Sheep— you going to grace us with your presence?Yes, actually. I don't respond faster when you vote me, though. Why have your last three votes been directed at people because they're not posting? Especially your vote on Iqovian, since you suspected he was up for replacement. Seems to me you've been trying to put up the appearance of being active with your vote, especially since suspecting many people is one of your most trusted town-tells.
A Theory: If Birdy is town, Cheeetar and Tiruin are probably town, since why would they be so fussed about which town player they lynched?
Also, why are people assuming Birdy would be NK'd? Seems to me he wouldn't be, since he was at the top of the lynch-list. It'd be easy to drive a lynch on him and NK someone thought to be more town.
And Birdy, staying in would definitely be better if you can manage it.
Post by: Imp on November 14, 2013, 07:37:56 pm
- You are asking me to compromise my ability to investigate by explaining how they happen. Why would a Townie rightfully need to know how another player uses his investigative powers? There is nothing to gain from this, other than to satisfy your need for information. Rather, by explaining how it works I end up with the possibility of screwing myself over, due to the scum team knowing how to avoid being investigated by me. Thus, I have decided that I refuse to tell you anything further on the matter, unless you can justify yourself. How would the Town directly benefit from me claiming further? I don't want here a word about the scum team right now. How would the TOWN benefit from that information?
I'm also asking you to do this - so I'll answer this question too (I assume you meant to direct it to Cheeetar).
You made the claim of your role and about at least one of your abilities. You made some big claims about your abilities, and the only reason I can understand why you did so was because your neck was in the noose - that goes for if you're Town or Scum - but you went so far as to claim that the only way you could pursue your wincon was to stay alive -
The only way I could advance the Town Wincon, is to prevent my own death and allow myself a chance to take a Night Action.
If you are Scum, you have plenty of reason to make any claim that you think might work. And you made some big, big claims.
I also have one other ability that would make for an excellent gag, and had the potential to stop the scum team cold. It involves rekilling people. ^.^
Your claims didn't sound true to me then, at the end of D1. This didn't change my mind about TolyK - I still felt he was scummier than you (and definitely Scummier than Nerjin). I felt perfectly comfortable in pursuing a lynch on my top Scum pick - that in no way changes that I also saw you as Scummy.
I didn't chase lynching you first because I did prefer a lynch of my top Scum pick if possible - and if your claims were true - why not give you time to use them? If you'd lied, that would be apparent D2 and whatever evidence is in play can be examined D2.
Now, you've said a lot about your ability, but what you've said about how it works doesn't make sense to me - and seems likely to be a lie to me because of it. And you claim that you're not talking further about it because:
by explaining how it works I end up with the possibility of screwing myself over, due to the scum team knowing how to avoid being investigated by me.
Well, if you are Town, the Scum team in their ignorance managed to avoid being investigated by you - and managed a kill (unless Hapah died to a non-Scum kill). So the Scum team seems to be working just fine without the information you've partially given.
But now we have a problem, the rest of Town other than yourself does. Now we have to decide if you are Town or Scum - and you've looked pretty Scummy. Explaining yourself well enough that we can determine if you're even telling the truth or not serves Town in helping prevent your own mislynch.
No one told you to make the claims you did - but now that you have, they are part of the game's record. Giving you a chance to choose to show that you're not a liar (assuming you are not lying) gives Town a chance to avoid another mislynch. Even if what you say makes your power 100% useless, fixing what seems to be a lie (and why lie if you're not Scum?) or even if what you say makes you be tonight's night kill - at least you are freeing up the lynch so we have a chance to lynch Scum. And frankly, if you render yourself useless in the process - that's your bad choice from back on D1 coming back to bite you. You made HUGE claims about your value to Town. You even claimed to have no use to Town save through your abilities - which is false, all Town, even vanilla Town have their words, their observations and questions, and their vote - all of which can be used to try and further their Wincon, even hours and minutes before their mislynch.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 14, 2013, 07:45:49 pm
Also, why are people assuming Birdy would be NK'd? Seems to me he wouldn't be, since he was at the top of the lynch-list. It'd be easy to drive a lynch on him and NK someone thought to be more town.
If Birdy wasn't scum, then he'd be telling the truth about being an investigator, and thus the scum would want to kill him as soon as possible so none of their number is discovered.
Post by: Nerjin on November 14, 2013, 07:59:19 pm
Post by: Tiruin on November 14, 2013, 08:21:43 pm
Post by: Nerjin on November 14, 2013, 08:58:50 pm
Post by: Toaster on November 14, 2013, 11:06:38 pm
Why did you go out of the way to avoid me Birdy? I have since come to the conclusion (now with good evidence from a game we can't discuss here) that asking everyone questions during the RVS isn't a reliable indicator of townness so I wasn't tracking that aspect of your behavior.
The reason I didn't direct any questions to you, and to avoid you when I could was to see if you would notice. Which you didn't, but as you said that's not a crime. Really, this whole matter comes down to how you respond to the question,"Why didn't you notice?". Frankly, your answer feels a bit convoluted. I still feel that I haven't received a straight answer as to why you didn't notice. You cite that asking RVS questions isn't a good way to find scum, but you've yet to actually say, "No, I missed that you said that" or "Yes, I did see it, but I decided that I had other things to worry about."
In fact, I still don't have an answer to that question. The responses you've given have been purely political, or devoid of any personal sense. Hell, you haven't even asked me why I chose you in particular yet. I think that is valid ground for suspicion.
Could one of you tell me what the point of this whole argument is? It looks like a big waste of time to me.
Shakerag:
birdy51:I can't imagine anyone else who managed to make so many gaffes in one day and manage somehow get away with it."somehow get away with it." That's kind of interesting wording. I'd like to think that if you were town, you would have said "to not get mislynched" instead of "somehow get away with it."
Also, this:I have committed Occum's Razor by saying this, but I am confident I can find something over night. My role power is conducive to something like that happening. I'll vote myself if I fail to find anything.That's a pretty easy deal on your behalf. I don't know what abilities your scumbuddies have, but I bet from what you've said that you were pretty confident that all of you together could come up with something. Maybe one of your scumbuddies even did use a protect on you as an alibi.
Not pictured: reasons for voting Birdy. Yes, you unvoted him, but you still voted him here. Why?
The_Iqovian's case on Nerjin feels paper-thin, especially since he has claimed a lack of time to read and participate in the game. But then double-votes Nerjin before he goes. And is trying to discern alignment from an ability name. An incorrect ability name. In a BYOR.
And then you'd rather stay unvoted and just FOS than vote. Why?
Cheeetar:
It's asking him to guess why he, as a claimed cop, wouldn't have any night kills targeted towards him. Are you saying considering this is useless?
Yes, I am. Trying to guess the motives of scum is practically the definition of WIFOM.
Also, unless I'm mistaken, the only thing he claimed was an investigative role, not cop specifically. Am I wrong on this?
How exactly is him being so damn private about his investigative role pro-town if he's willing to claim that he's an investigative role? "I'm a cop, but I can't tell you anything about how it works or why I don't have any information for you this night!"
I never said it was pro-town. Before a massclaim, it's his prerogative on what he wants to claim or not claim.
Toaster! Something odd: Why didn't you protect Birdy? Did you think he was scum, and if so, why didn't you vote for him/why aren't you voting for him or pressuring him at all? You did plan on voting, but at the end of the day, you hadn't placed yours.
I wasn't sure on him either way, so I wasn't going to waste either a vote or a protection on someone I have a poor read of. As of right now, I'm still not sure- the cases on him seem somewhat weak.
Birdy! Some of the people voting for you are scum
How do you know?
Birdy:
Do you think it would be worth keeping me around? Should I rescind the replacement bid and make an attempt to return to play in full force? Or, would you prefer if I simply allow myself to be lynched/ modkilled?
The game would certainly be more interesting with your position filled- modkills do not make for fun.
I second a request for a vote count.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 14, 2013, 11:54:34 pm
Toaster! Something odd: Why didn't you protect Birdy? Did you think he was scum, and if so, why didn't you vote for him/why aren't you voting for him or pressuring him at all? You did plan on voting, but at the end of the day, you hadn't placed yours.
I wasn't sure on him either way, so I wasn't going to waste either a vote or a protection on someone I have a poor read of. As of right now, I'm still not sure- the cases on him seem somewhat weak.
So. Birdy claims investigator to avoid lynch, and you're just so absolutely unsure of whether or not he's telling the truth or not that you avoid questioning him at all or protecting him, and instead decide to ignore him and protect some other dude you think is maybe scum (who turns up dead after you 'protect' him.) Toaster, that doesn't exactly add up. I'm starting to think that claiming a protect was a way to make sure that anybody who saw you visit Hapah's house last night thought your motives were pure.
Birdy! Some of the people voting for you are scum
How do you know?
Mark this my dear friends, mark this. I suspect that not everyone currently voting for me is a townie.
I don't know but apparently Birdy does so I was asking him to state who.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 14, 2013, 11:56:18 pm
Also, unless I'm mistaken, the only thing he claimed was an investigative role, not cop specifically. Am I wrong on this?
He's some sort of mysterious super investigator with the ability to stop the scum team in its tracks that's so important to town that anything he could contribute by way of text is useless in comparison... of course, he hasn't helped us yet despite telling us he would, and he can't tell us any of the real specifics of his magnificent powers.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 15, 2013, 01:32:57 am
How would the Town directly benefit from me claiming further? I don't want here a word about the scum team right now. How would the TOWN benefit from that information?
I don't know what your ability does! You haven't told anybody! I can't tell you how the town benefits from knowing how it works because you haven't even bloody hinted at how it works other than saying that it's mysterious and it was useless last night. You're perfectly willing to claim that you have a super great investigative ability, but until you actually tell us how it works why do you expect us to believe you when you say you have it?
Post by: webadict on November 15, 2013, 07:26:18 am
------------------------
birdy51 - Imp, Cheeetar,
Cheeetar - Deathsword, Toaster,
Deathsword -
Imp - TheWetSheep,
Nerjin - birdy51, The_Iqovian, The_Iqovian,
notquitethere -
Shakerag -
The_Iqovian -
TheWetSheep - notquitethere,
Tiruin -
Toaster -
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Tiruin, Nerjin, Shakerag,
6 To Hammer. Day ends Friday 9 PM Central.
Post by: birdy51 on November 15, 2013, 09:22:51 am
My investigation ability is called "This Just In". Basically, it allows me to see every action or person(I have no choice in the matter, it's random), who successfully performed an action against me. So... Even if I was targeted by a Night Kill, I wouldn't know about until I was... You know dead.
For the longest time, I was under the impression that I saw everything, and that being protected would still allow me to see a Night Kill attempt. With all the attention to my role, I felt that this was the best way to goad the scum into trying to NK me. However, the word successful was something that I added. I can't see, what doesn't actually effect me. This is a sharp change from my prior belief of, "I SEE ALL WHO WOULD DARE TO SMITE OR HINDER THE MIGHTY BIRDY."
Hence, my ability is really… Not very strong at all. There is no point in hiding now, as I won't be able detect both a NK and stay alive long enough to relay it to the Town. If I'm Nked and protected, I'll never see it. If I am Nked and not protected, I'll be dead.
So there you go... You can thank Cheeetar for getting me curious about what my ability doesn't necessarily cover.
As for my other ability, remember that the Scum Team shares the factional kill. Only one of them can perform it. Thus, if I target that player, he will be forced to take the factional nightkill, and use it again on the same target he had the night prior. Even if that target is dead.
However, realize that this requires me to find the person who actually took the NK last night. I might accidentally block one of the scum using Rerun and forcing him to take a nonlethal action, and never know about it. The ideal way for this ability to work requires me to be dead on about who took that kill. It's a foregone conclusion, that unless my WIFOM skills are up to snuff, we will never see a player "double dead" in the morning, and thus know who the scum really is.
So, to recapitulate…
I have two abilities that I have claimed.
This Just In: I will see either the actions or the people who successfully visited me in the Night.
Rerun: The target player will be forced to retake his Night Action under any circumstances. (Even if said ability is shared between a group of people, such as the scum factional kill.)
Post by: Nerjin on November 15, 2013, 09:39:45 am
Birdy51
And I'm gonna be smooth-talking here in a minute so...
Birdy51
Post by: Cheeetar on November 15, 2013, 09:43:52 am
I'll unvote Birdy51 and vote for Toaster. Your two-use protect does not make sense in the slightest to me- somebody else has a protect (and protected Birdy), and Hapah died anyway. I think you're false claiming just in case anybody saw you visit and kill Hapah the previous night.
Post by: notquitethere on November 15, 2013, 10:05:08 am
You guys should know the drill by now. This is a rolefest and so a lot of us will be leaning more on our powers to find scum, but day actions are important. I think engagement and willingness to take risks are qualities that strong players have and scum generally lack. This is reflected in the vote patterns.
Spoiler: Who people voted D1 minus RVS votes (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: How things are shaping up today (click to show/hide)
There a differing philosophies on the use of the vote. I like to use it to cajole players into playing better. The better the town plays the better the chance we have at winning this thing. It's not necessarily a sign of scumdom, but I associate failure to commit to voting as a sign of weak play. Weak play can be a sign of scum, a sign of risk-averse third-parties, or it can be a sign of ineffectual town. These kinds of players need prodding.
So who've been the most useless today? Tiruin had a weird switch vote on TolyK yesterday and now she's just cruising but... apparently she's coming in with something soon?
As of prior note, I've been making a LONG list of people-their tells from my PoV and interactions. Hopefully gonna be posted later today-am just really swamped by RL, but then I know I can do this and won't be asking for a replacement.I want to hear it Tiruin!
Shakerag has voted today but then unvoted. Day's coming to an end soon chief: who'd you suspect?
Iqovian (who I won't vote as he's going to be modkilled) and Deathsword have been the most tunnelly: they're the only players to have the same D1 vote as Day 2 vote without ever voting anyone else. So, Deathsword ol' buddy, explain to me why Cheetar is scummier than all other players. What do you think of his latest Toaster vote?
Sheep
Yes, actually. I don't respond faster when you vote me, though.But you did respond, so i got what I wanted.
Why have your last three votes been directed at people because they're not posting? Especially your vote on Iqovian, since you suspected he was up for replacement. Seems to me you've been trying to put up the appearance of being active with your vote, especially since suspecting many people is one of your most trusted town-tells.Obviously I don't expect people to judge me town by metrics I've defined myself. As I explain above, I think it's important for town to pressure one another into playing well. I'm glad you put in at least a token effort before the deadline. We get very little information from players that refuse to vote (like TolyK— what did we even learn from their flip?).
A Theory: If Birdy is town, Cheeetar and Tiruin are probably town, since why would they be so fussed about which town player they lynched?Yeah that might have water, though of course a strong scum player might do that sort of thing to appear town. Cheetar has been very engaged so if he's scum then he's competent enough to pull of that sort of thing. Tiruin's hardly been here.
Toaster
NQT and Birdy:Feels like a pointless misunderstanding to me. I think it's been cleared up. Basically, Birdy set what he thought was the perfect NQT-trap. I failed his test but it wasn't a very good test to begin with.
Could one of you tell me what the point of this whole argument is? It looks like a big waste of time to me.
Wuba— can you confirm the Birdy vote? I never saw him vote Nerjin and Lurker-tracker says his last vote was an unvote.
Post by: birdy51 on November 15, 2013, 11:36:54 am
Unvote
I sense shenanigans...
Webadict, could you run the votes one more time?
Post by: Shakerag on November 15, 2013, 11:41:37 am
Shakerag:1 - Yes, he was asked about it. I don't have an issue with that. I'm more talking about this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4760077#msg4760077) where birdy51 just feels like he's rambling and over-explaining about why he wasn't nightkilled. It felt kind of like a scumsplanation. Also I didn't say he was scum, just that my town impression of him was lessened.birdy51 - Feeling less town - Could be fakeclaiming; a lot of focus on why he wasn't killed at nightWhy are you calling him scum for talking about something that he was asked about? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4754569#msg4754569)QuoteTheWetSheep - Slightly moving toward scum - I think his case on Imp is poorIf this is true, why aren't you pressuring me?
2 - Because I didn't feel like doing so at the time and was exploring other lines of questioning against other players that I thought would be more productive.
Are you implying that there is some bullshit I should be calling you out on, TWS?
Toaster:
Shakerag:Not pictured: reasons for voting Birdy. Yes, you unvoted him, but you still voted him here. Why?Did you read this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4763438#msg4763438)? To spell it out for you, it was a pressure vote to see if it would evoke a scummy reaction. It didn't, so I unvoted.
And then you'd rather stay unvoted and just FOS than vote. Why?Also from the post I linked to above: I was too busy at the time.
NQT:
Shakerag has voted today but then unvoted. Day's coming to an end soon chief: who'd you suspect?Hey, thanks for parroting Toaster.
Cheeetar: Why are you voting Toaster this close to day end? Do you really think you're going to rally support for a lynch on him in time?
Post by: webadict on November 15, 2013, 12:41:37 pm
------------------------
birdy51 - Imp, Nerjin, Nerjin,
Cheeetar - Deathsword, Toaster, Shakerag,
Deathsword -
Imp - TheWetSheep,
Nerjin - The_Iqovian, The_Iqovian,
notquitethere -
Shakerag -
The_Iqovian -
TheWetSheep -
Tiruin - notquitethere,
Toaster - Cheeetar,
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Tiruin,
6 To Hammer. Day ends Friday 9 PM Central.
birdy51 no longer looking for replacement.
Also, mistakes can be blamed on bad eyesight. Only two hijinks active on voteboard are double The_Iqovian and Nerjin and lack of birdy51. Any other perceived discrepancies can be attributed to madness and should be met with extreme force. Maybe. Who knows?
Post by: birdy51 on November 15, 2013, 12:46:41 pm
Whelp. I'm not going to be around tonight, seeing as I have opening night to worry about, and I don't exactly have anymore claims to make. Whatever happens, happens. Do what you have to do!
Post by: Shakerag on November 15, 2013, 01:05:21 pm
Post by: Toaster on November 15, 2013, 03:45:19 pm
So. Birdy claims investigator to avoid lynch, and you're just so absolutely unsure of whether or not he's telling the truth or not that you avoid questioning him at all or protecting him, and instead decide to ignore him and protect some other dude you think is maybe scum (who turns up dead after you 'protect' him.) Toaster, that doesn't exactly add up. I'm starting to think that claiming a protect was a way to make sure that anybody who saw you visit Hapah's house last night thought your motives were pure.
Note that I had no posts between his claim and day end- no opportunity to question him. And "maybe scum?" I'm just going to assume you meant "maybe town."
Also, how paranoid do you think Scum Toaster is that he'd try to claim an alibi with zero prompting? That's pretty ridiculous.
He's some sort of mysterious super investigator with the ability to stop the scum team in its tracks that's so important to town that anything he could contribute by way of text is useless in comparison... of course, he hasn't helped us yet despite telling us he would, and he can't tell us any of the real specifics of his magnificent powers.
Like I said, if he didn't want to claim, he was under no obligation to do so.
Shakerag: Eh. I suppose on your reasoning/pressure vote.
And then you'd rather stay unvoted and just FOS than vote. Why?Also from the post I linked to above: I was too busy at the time.
This, however, is a crock. Too busy to scroll from "Blue" to "Red" in the formatting color selector? Don't tell me someone who can fire off a quick pressure vote like that is unable to do it again later on another target.
Birdy: Just to confirm, you know you were protected but not who did it?
Post by: Teneb on November 15, 2013, 04:09:36 pm
So, Deathsword ol' buddy, explain to me why Cheetar is scummier than all other players. What do you think of his latest Toaster vote?I stated my case on him here:
Allow me to restate the case on you (Cheeetar), as I see it:I feel all that combined is scummier than what else happened yet. Things may change of course, but I feel he is scum, thus I vote and keep said vote.
You fiercely defended Iqovian, for no apparent reason, agaist every single attack, you switched your vote at D1's end from your then-scumpick to the person your scumpick was voting, come D2 you try to make Imp look guilty by using TolyK's lynch: a lynch you took part in, despite the fact that you had absolutely no case against him other than "the vote was tied".
As for his reasoning on the Toaster vote, it's hard to confirm either way. Birdy claims he knows which actions were succesfuly taken against him, so he could confirm the use of any protect (if at all) on him or who acted on him.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 15, 2013, 04:16:01 pm
Cheeetar: Why are you voting Toaster this close to day end? Do you really think you're going to rally support for a lynch on him in time?
Yep, plus he's my top scum pick right now. Does nobody else find him claiming he has a two-use protect incredibly strange? He may be using the claim to cover up the fact that you've been contributing next to nothing to the game- also, to my knowledge, he never answered my question on why he claimed.
I have a two-shot protect, and I used one of them on Hapah last night. Either he attracted two kills or one that bypassed protection.
Why are you claiming, and why did you try to protect Hapah?
This wasn't answered!
Also, how paranoid do you think Scum Toaster is that he'd try to claim an alibi with zero prompting? That's pretty ridiculous.
Can't think of any other reason why you'd claim.
Post by: Toaster on November 15, 2013, 04:21:24 pm
I have a two-shot protect, and I used one of them on Hapah last night. Either he attracted two kills or one that bypassed protection.
Why are you claiming, and why did you try to protect Hapah?
This wasn't answered!Also, how paranoid do you think Scum Toaster is that he'd try to claim an alibi with zero prompting? That's pretty ridiculous.
Can't think of any other reason why you'd claim.
Yes it was, on all counts:
Hapah I consider one of the better players in game, and one I had a reasonably good read on. As for why then, it was the best action choice at this part of the game.
I thought it'd be helpful information. I'm not a full-on doc so I'm not afraid to claim.
Admittably, it was before you even asked, so if you missed it the first time you wouldn't have thought to look back.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 15, 2013, 04:26:15 pm
Hapah I consider one of the better players in game, and one I had a reasonably good read on. As for why then, it was the best action choice at this part of the game.I thought it'd be helpful information. I'm not a full-on doc so I'm not afraid to claim.
Admittably, it was before you even asked, so if you missed it the first time you wouldn't have thought to look back.
Butts, sorry. It still seems shady as all hell to me. You have a protect that doesn't work, and it's limited, and you visited Hapah's house last night, and there's apparently another doctor who helped out Birdy?
Post by: Toaster on November 15, 2013, 04:28:44 pm
1) Hapah had a protect- we can't exactly ask him what he did last night.
2) I got redirected to Birdy.
3) There's another doc out there.
#2 would kill two birds with one stone.
Post by: Shakerag on November 15, 2013, 04:43:54 pm
Ahh, crap. I apologize for the confusion because I misread your post from before. I parsed that essentially as "you'd rather stay unvoted and just FOS than present a case and vote for someone" rather than "you'd rather stay unvoted and just FOS than vote [The_Iqovian]."And then you'd rather stay unvoted and just FOS than vote. Why?Also from the post I linked to above: I was too busy at the time.
This, however, is a crock. Too busy to scroll from "Blue" to "Red" in the formatting color selector? Don't tell me someone who can fire off a quick pressure vote like that is unable to do it again later on another target.
But either way it would have been silly for me to put a pressure vote on Iqo when he was replacing out, yes?
And why ask birdy a question when he just stated that he wouldn't be around tonight? When the day ends tonight? And birdy is in danger of getting lynched?
Tiruin:
As of prior note, I've been making a LONG list of people-their tells from my PoV and interactions. Hopefully gonna be posted later today-am just really swamped by RL, but then I know I can do this and won't be asking for a replacement.I don't want to be a dick and hammer on someone for lurking when they've repeatedly said they are very busy IRL, but I don't want to let a player who could potentially be scum slide by day after day without giving up much to get a read on. So I am calling into question the last part of your post here...
Cheeetar:
I'm thinking typo, but if not, do explain the bolded part.Cheeetar: Why are you voting Toaster this close to day end? Do you really think you're going to rally support for a lynch on him in time?
Yep, plus he's my top scum pick right now. Does nobody else find him claiming he has a two-use protect incredibly strange? He may be using the claim to cover up the fact that you've been contributing next to nothing to the game- also, to my knowledge, he never answered my question on why he claimed.
To answer your open question: It's a BYOR, so I think there's little here that would be strange, ability-wise. Or, oh, wait, I think you mean the fact that he's claiming is strange. Well ... It could be to try and figure out information about what happened N1, but I'm not really sure where that's going though. It also could be seen as a bit alibi-ish, but then that also seems odd to claim early in the day when no one was really looking his way either.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 15, 2013, 05:03:24 pm
I have three possibilities:
1) Hapah had a protect- we can't exactly ask him what he did last night.
2) I got redirected to Birdy.
3) There's another doc out there.
#2 would kill two birds with one stone.
Yep. For 1 and 3, that doesn't deflect the likelihood that there's not gonna be more than one doctor floating around for town. You could ask Webadict if you were redirected though, right?
Cheeetar:I'm thinking typo, but if not, do explain the bolded part.Cheeetar: Why are you voting Toaster this close to day end? Do you really think you're going to rally support for a lynch on him in time?
Yep, plus he's my top scum pick right now. Does nobody else find him claiming he has a two-use protect incredibly strange? He may be using the claim to cover up the fact that you've been contributing next to nothing to the game- also, to my knowledge, he never answered my question on why he claimed.
To answer your open question: It's a BYOR, so I think there's little here that would be strange, ability-wise. Or, oh, wait, I think you mean the fact that he's claiming is strange. Well ... It could be to try and figure out information about what happened N1, but I'm not really sure where that's going though. It also could be seen as a bit alibi-ish, but then that also seems odd to claim early in the day when no one was really looking his way either.
Bolded part? Yes, I think it's very odd that he's seemingly claiming for no reason.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 15, 2013, 05:39:53 pm
Post by: Shakerag on November 15, 2013, 05:44:30 pm
Context: You are responding to me, talking about Toaster.Cheeetar:I'm thinking typo, but if not, do explain the bolded part.Cheeetar: Why are you voting Toaster this close to day end? Do you really think you're going to rally support for a lynch on him in time?
Yep, plus he's my top scum pick right now. Does nobody else find him claiming he has a two-use protect incredibly strange? He may be using the claim to cover up the fact that you've been contributing next to nothing to the game- also, to my knowledge, he never answered my question on why he claimed.
To answer your open question: It's a BYOR, so I think there's little here that would be strange, ability-wise. Or, oh, wait, I think you mean the fact that he's claiming is strange. Well ... It could be to try and figure out information about what happened N1, but I'm not really sure where that's going though. It also could be seen as a bit alibi-ish, but then that also seems odd to claim early in the day when no one was really looking his way either.
Bolded part? Yes, I think it's very odd that he's seemingly claiming for no reason.
You said: "Yep, plus he's my top scum pick right now. Does nobody else find him claiming he has a two-use protect incredibly strange? He may be using the claim to cover up the fact that ****you've**** been contributing next to nothing to the game- also, to my knowledge, he never answered my question on why he claimed."
There, I tried asterisks instead of bolding. Did you mean to put "he's", or are you saying that Toaster is claiming his protect to cover up that I'm contributing next to nothing? Because if it's the latter, I'm very confused and you need to explain yourself.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 15, 2013, 05:47:21 pm
Post by: TheWetSheep on November 15, 2013, 07:20:52 pm
SheepMy point was that I'd have responded at the same time if you hadn't voted me.Yes, actually. I don't respond faster when you vote me, though.But you did respond, so i got what I wanted.
Shakerag:
No.
Are you implying that there is some bullshit I should be calling you out on, TWS?
Re: Toaster's protect, Hapah's death, etc: I can't think of a reason for scum Toaster to claim a protect on a person who died other than refuge in audacity. And I really think it was scum that killed Hapah, since town would probably not do it. He was a good player and nobody was showing suspicion of him.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 15, 2013, 07:54:59 pm
Post by: Imp on November 15, 2013, 08:00:07 pm
Yeah, Day totally extended to Friday.
I don't think we've had any extension requests since then. I see about 2 and a quarter hours left, with the votes tied:
3 votes for Birdy: Imp, Nerjin, Birdy's vote stolen again by Nerjin
3 votes for Cheeetar: Deathsword, Toaster, Shakerag
And a second place with two votes:
2 votes for Nerjin: The_Iqovian twice
I'm certainly not switching to Nerjin. I've not had time to properly post, but I've thought The_Iqovian was scummy from D1 and that's not really changed. The_Iqovian is also possibly about to be Mod killed. I've also thought Nerjin was probably Town from D1.
However, the vote is now tied, with about 2 hours on the clock, and part of that is because Nerjin 'stole' Birdy's vote again and placed it thusly. Nerjin was enraged or panicked about the possibility of even a second's worth tie near (not even -at-, just near) the end of D1. Nerjin seems completely unconcerned D2. This bugs me. I didn't mind his behavior D1 - thought it extreme, thought it telling - but didn't think it meant Scum or Town. Now I wonder - because I don't see -any- concern.
Kind of makes me wonder what happens to Nerjin if he uses his vote steal, and whomever he votes for -doesn't- get lynched. Could that be a form of balance on his clearly multi-use smooth talking?
More importantly, does this say anything about Nerjin's alignment? If that's a limit on his ability, no. But his lack of caring about the tie this D, maybe.
Nerjin, explain your thinking, and why you seem to care so less this day?
If I change my vote at all, that puts Cheeetar as the lynch lead - the best I could do is go from a Birdy/Cheeetar tie to a Nerjin/Cheeetar tie - anything else is almost like voting directly for Cheeetar.
I suspected Cheeetar of being Scum throughout most of D1, however his end game D1 and his D2 behavior have lessened that suspicion. My main reason for suspecting Cheeetar D1 was that he was 'extremely' protective of The_Iqovian, so protective that I could have guessed his wincon to require protecting The_Iqovian. I don't think that's true - I think that Cheeetar is that protective of an out of game friend, regardless of what that does to the game. That's a null tell to me, and to the depth I've been able to read and reread (not as deep as I wish, but I have kept up and reread some).
As to the people voting for Cheeetar - Deathsword's put very low effort into this game, and I really dislike that (hard to say Town or Scum, but I don't like it and have to fight to view him positively because of it). Toaster's a null read for me. Shakerag is a slight Town read. That doesn't make my decision any easier.
I rather hope the extension goes through, I don't have time right now (work) and don't have the proper focus (distractions) to really reread and ask what I've been thinking about when I had time to think.
That said, there -is- still about 2 hours left this day, even if there's no extension. I'll read back over what I can, and I'll keep my eyes open - maybe someone else will vote (Tiruin?) or someone else will compromise. There are a few people voting for outliers, notquitethere, TheWetSheep, and Cheeetar.
Cheeetar, you're almost always around, so I'll ask you directly: I don't think you can convince many of us to join you in a Toaster lynch. Will you be breaking the tie, or do you feel that your wincon is best served by a tie on this day?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 15, 2013, 08:05:14 pm
Cheeetar, you're almost always around, so I'll ask you directly: I don't think you can convince many of us to join you in a Toaster lynch. Will you be breaking the tie, or do you feel that your wincon is best served by a tie on this day?
Extension.
It's a damn shame. If the extension goes through I'll try and rally people around killing Toaster, but until then... unvoting Toaster, voting Birdy51. Same case as Day 1 I suppose. I don't honestly think you're the most scummy or suspicious person, but you've had strange moments and your death would at least give town some valuable information. Now that we know your abilities aren't quite that helpful, I can console myself with knowing that we aren't losing too much ability wise at least.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 15, 2013, 08:08:31 pm
Post by: Toaster on November 15, 2013, 10:07:37 pm
Post by: Toaster on November 15, 2013, 10:15:58 pm
But either way it would have been silly for me to put a pressure vote on Iqo when he was replacing out, yes?
And why ask birdy a question when he just stated that he wouldn't be around tonight? When the day ends tonight? And birdy is in danger of getting lynched?
I disagree, but I can just agree to disagree on that.
Just in case he found time. I was going to ask him if the protect came from me if I was incorrect and he saw both.
Cheeetar:
Yep. For 1 and 3, that doesn't deflect the likelihood that there's not gonna be more than one doctor floating around for town. You could ask Webadict if you were redirected though, right?
Unless something has changed, Web doesn't tell you if you've been redirected. For example, a standard cop inspect result from him would read "Action successful. Target is [alignment]." Not "[Player] is [alignment]" but just the word Target.
WUBA: Can you verify this?
Toaster, is there anything in the description of your protect that may lead you to think there's a way around it, or are there any special conditions on it? Do you know you successfully protected Hapah, or is there the possibility you were roleblocked? Does your role protect against Hapah trying to visit somebody and them having an ability that kills all who interact with them?
No. It's pretty unambiguous. In my clarification request, Web did say it was successful, so I was certainly not blocked. It's just a standard protect, which as far as I know would save from a PGO-style kill.
Also, I did neglect possibility #4: Hapah was the target of two kills. We can make sure that's possible right now.
WUBA: How many kills does a standard protect work against? One or all?
Post by: Nerjin on November 15, 2013, 11:25:39 pm
However, the vote is now tied, with about 2 hours on the clock, and part of that is because Nerjin 'stole' Birdy's vote again and placed it thusly. Nerjin was enraged or panicked about the possibility of even a second's worth tie near (not even -at-, just near) the end of D1. Nerjin seems completely unconcerned D2. This bugs me. I didn't mind his behavior D1 - thought it extreme, thought it telling - but didn't think it meant Scum or Town. Now I wonder - because I don't see -any- concern.
Kind of makes me wonder what happens to Nerjin if he uses his vote steal, and whomever he votes for -doesn't- get lynched. Could that be a form of balance on his clearly multi-use smooth talking?
Oh hey, look at that. AFTER I used my vote [breaking a tie] a bunch of people MADE a tie. Too bad I was a work when people were being dumb as hell.
But there's also the fact that the tie is now broken. I'll post a bit more later when I have time.
Post by: birdy51 on November 16, 2013, 12:54:51 am
At this point, another reminder: Use my death as info. I repeat that someone who's voting me now is almost certainly scum... You all are just afraid to pursue it. Which, is understandable. But let my death be permission for you guys to actually do some real hunting.
As a side note, Wubba alluded to the idea that I have been swapped, or that my role becomes a bit convoluted with swapping. Take this as you will. It's up to you guys at this point.
If Iqovian flips town, do your dead buddy a favor and lynch Nerjin. Two double Town Voters, plus the ability to steal someone else's vote isn't really a Town strength. Anyways this is Kent Brockman, signing off.
Post by: Tiruin on November 16, 2013, 03:56:54 am
Second of all, here's the votecount and thank you ZU for the literal vote-counter. [As in, thank you before even when some details were missed..but still thank you because you've a lurkertracker :D]
Third of all, sorry for my absence and thank you also for putting up with my appreciation of the scenery whilst y'all chat and talk there.
Fourth of all, yeah it's all my fault.
Quote
Vote CountAnd birdy51 is voting for Nerjin..but I dunno where his vote went O_o
------------------------
birdy51 - Imp, Nerjin, Nerjin, Cheeetar
Cheeetar - Deathsword, Toaster, Shakerag,
Deathsword -
Imp - TheWetSheep,
Nerjin - The_Iqovian, The_Iqovian,
notquitethere -
Shakerag -
The_Iqovian -
TheWetSheep -
Tiruin - notquitethere,
Toaster -
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Tiruin,
6 To Hammer. Day ends Friday 9 PM Central.
Edited.
Extend.
Unless I'm somehow posting-postday, we have 3 extends before my post and 4 now. Is that enough?
Post by: birdy51 on November 16, 2013, 07:39:40 am
My own vote is purely symbolic, seeing as he stole my vote and refuses to allow me to use it. He's been the main instigator of my lynch, so it was a bit cathartic even if it was useless. ^.^
Regardless, it seems that Wuba hasn't been on to send us into the Night, likely due to random busyness. Happens to everyone I suppose.
Post by: notquitethere on November 16, 2013, 09:15:28 am
Post by: birdy51 on November 16, 2013, 10:42:08 am
I don't have a vote at all. Nerjin has my vote, which is why he is double voting. O.o
Post by: notquitethere on November 16, 2013, 11:30:31 am
Post by: Imp on November 16, 2013, 02:23:36 pm
Post by: Imp on November 16, 2013, 02:26:06 pm
Wubba, are we extended to when?
Post by: Nerjin on November 16, 2013, 10:30:49 pm
Birdy51
Yeah, turns out Birdy DIDN't vote me. Uh... So Birdy if you wanna use your vote in a way I'll use it on whom you want until Web gets back in here to fix that.
Sorry for not posting more guys, I've been busy today and still gotta get some stuff done.
Post by: Nerjin on November 17, 2013, 01:59:01 am
Unvote
No ties. I'll be back tomorrow.
Post by: birdy51 on November 17, 2013, 08:26:35 am
Oh sweet heavens this is confusing... Assuming my vote isn't actually symbolic, I'll unvote(As I would not actually like to lynch Nerjin until we know what kind of role Iqovian is.)
Off-Topic
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: webadict on November 17, 2013, 12:26:26 pm
Interesting. Webadict has been online since 'D2 was scheduled to end' - he was online 4 hours ago.Extended til I get home. Out with family. Birthday
Wubba, are we extended to when?
Post by: Tiruin on November 17, 2013, 03:47:50 pm
Ok, for real, having HUGE net problems when posting things of a large text calibre as of the moment (yeah yeah opportunity and stuff//you're giving excuses... :x Weird things with our ISP is all I can say. I have no idea why the net is so slow [tried to post WoT, waited 10~ish minutes before things like a time out/connection reset or whatever happened.)
Post coming up..soon. Before day end is best.
Happy Birthday Web.
Nerjin for the moment. Superficial reasoning would go on how the focus is on 'there MUST be a lynch' instead of the context behind the lynch in respect to the target being attacked.
...Also those unvotes.
Post by: Imp on November 17, 2013, 07:21:39 pm
Post by: Imp on November 17, 2013, 08:46:36 pm
QuoteVote CountAnd birdy51 is voting for Nerjin..but I dunno where his vote went O_o
------------------------
birdy51 - Imp, Nerjin, Nerjin, Cheeetar
Cheeetar - Deathsword, Toaster, Shakerag,
Deathsword -
Imp - TheWetSheep,
Nerjin - The_Iqovian, The_Iqovian,
notquitethere -
Shakerag -
The_Iqovian -
TheWetSheep -
Tiruin - notquitethere,
Toaster -
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Tiruin,
6 To Hammer. Day ends Friday 9 PM Central.
That comment about birdy51 is sarcasm, Tiruin? If not, it went here and 'explains' Nerjin's repeated use of double vote:
Web, you missed my vote.
Birdy51
And I'm gonna be smooth-talking here in a minute so...
Birdy51
Partially Confirmed here, both that there was an original error in the vote count, and that Nerjin did indeed re-steal Birdy's vote (at least through confirmation from Birdy saying it is gone, and also through Webba posting the corrected and updated votecount without including Birdy as having a vote used or not)
Wait what?!? Why am I voting Nerjin? Why did Nerjin's vote not get counted on me?
Unvote
I sense shenanigans...
Webadict, could you run the votes one more time?
Indeed. Nerjin has once again taken my vote to use it against me... Joy.
Tiruin, what did you think the vote count looked like when you placed your vote for Nerjin? And when did you think the D would end?
I'm convinced that Nerjin and Birdy cannot both be Scum. I also think Birdy's seriously Scummy.
Birdy claimed, when it appears that he was going to be the D2 lynch, that:
As a side note, Wubba alluded to the idea that I have been swapped, or that my role becomes a bit convoluted with swapping. Take this as you will. It's up to you guys at this point.
So now Birdy's saying, when he flips, that we're not going to be seeing Kent Brockman after all - Birdy, do I understand you right?
What's with that -or- in what you claim? What's with the 'alluded'? It's this 'slipperyness', this 'evasive not quite explaining yourself' that drives you to the top of my Scumpicks. Why do you half say things instead of not saying them, or explaning them in a way that actually makes one answer clear or not?
Self-proclaimed 'Village Idiot', you're trying to get away with stuff that bugs the heck out of me.
And day could end at any second, it could end while I type this. And right now the vote is tied because of Tiruin's vote for Nerjin, a tie between Nerjin and Cheeetar.
Nerjin states:
Unvote
Birdy51
Yeah, turns out Birdy DIDN't vote me. Uh... So Birdy if you wanna use your vote in a way I'll use it on whom you want until Web gets back in here to fix that.
Sorry for not posting more guys, I've been busy today and still gotta get some stuff done.
So Nerjin, your reason for trying to lynch Birdy D2 is that you believed Birdy voted you (again)? - That's essentially your D1 reason, when you switched off of The_Iqovian and double voted Birdy.
And having realized you were wrong about Birdy's vote (because Web's vote count was wrong? - you didn't realize that you'd never seen Birdy vote for you this D and you never went back to double check because you couldn't remember it happening?) you took action and -now- regret it, so much that you focus only on your feelings (and not the reality of how the vote stands, so you unvote once, offer to 'give Birdy back his vote', just tell you how to use it - and create a tie in doing so.
Extend
Unvote
No ties. I'll be back tomorrow.
And then you do realize, and you fix it by unvoting, by doing the closest you can do to washing your hands of the entire situation without asking for a replacement. Talk about -no responsibility for how you use your vote-. But I know you 'just give up'. That's not a Scum tell from you, I don't know if you do it as Scum or not, but I know you have given up as Town before, and I think that's a you trait. A really scary one.
So the vote stands as :
Quote
birdy51 - Imp, Cheeetar
Cheeetar - Deathsword, Toaster, Shakerag
Deathsword -
Imp - TheWetSheep
Nerjin - The_Iqovian, The_Iqovian
notquitethere -
Shakerag -
The_Iqovian -
TheWetSheep -
Tiruin - notquitethere
Toaster -
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Tiruin
But then Tiruin comes in and votes for Nerjin, with the game in 'overtime' and without any set end point, just "whenever Web gets home", could be in a second or a week, who knows.
So that's a tie.
So I break the tie. And I break it towards Cheeetar instead of towards Nerjin. I now regret that we didn't lynch Birdy D1 - but it's the stuff that's happened D2 that makes me feel this way now. He was my second scum pick D1 because of 1)
*Weird comments about D1 'premonition' about Toaster this game.
Weird comments about lynching Towniest player at Lylo, referencing a not-provided source I also could not find (using given details, Lylo, Town, Towniest, lynch, Mafia - and several variants upon that theme) after over two hours of google searching and checking possible results - near as I can tell the only thread talking about lynching the Towniest player at lylo is -this- one because of what Birdy said, and there's no article about it that can be googled).
*Evasive and deflective play D1 (continued D2)
*Weird assumption/reaction here:
Toaster:How valid of a tell do you think rolefishing is?Not too valid, particularly this case, which is mild. Like I said, that vote on Birdy wasn't so much suspicion about his rolefishing as wanting an alternative to randomvoting.
Now, as for you and why I dislike your vote. I can understand wanting to get out RVS, but I can hardly see how my post was role fishing. Given that I had innocent intentions when I wrote the question, it causes me to ponder what in particular made that one post stand out to you.
Birdy:[...]no. I dodged the question because I actively mistrust both your question and your intentions. I believe I have right to question arguments made against me. Now, I realize that I did not ask this directly, but shall now ask it with bolded emphasis. What made my post stand out to you?Given that I had innocent intentions when I wrote the question, it causes me to ponder what in particular made that one post stand out to you.So any attack on you when you're town merits an OMGUS-y vote because you know that you had innocent intentions?
Secondly, no. I dodged the question because I actively mistrust both your question and your intentions. I believe I have right to question arguments made against me. Now, I realize that I did not ask this directly, but shall now ask it with bolded emphasis. What made my post stand out to you?I was scumhunting. What made you mistrust my intentions?
To your question, it was the most valid thing I could pressure somebody on at that time. I voted you not because I thought that your rolefishing made you scum, but because I wanted your reaction to an accusation and not a RVS question. That's how you leave RVS. (This also addresses this:QuoteI didn't think his point was valid in the first place, especially now that he himself has gone against it. TheWetSheep is establishing himself as valid, but he skips the part where he admits that his both his question and his vote were weak.
TheWetSheep-snip-Blegh... I think we will just keep going round and round on this one, unless we organize our arguments in a meaningful. I've already answered your question regarding the validity of your accusation of role fishing, and that it doesn't hold water.
You can make an accusation against me, but if it's weak you better as hell, you'd best understand that I will press you on it. To defend one selves honor is just as important as infiltrating and finding the traitorous scum who would kill us in the night. Further, when one strikes lazily with a sword in the daylight, you don't stand there and let it cut you, like a coward might. Nay, you parry and strike a stinging blow in return!
So! If you would have me to say it once more, I shall state once more why I find your accusation against me is as floppy as a fish but we've reached the point where this matter has gotten terribly redundant. To be perfectly honest, my feelings as to your scumminess has diminished somewhat.
The fact that you would not allow someone (Cheeetar) to bandwagon me while you actively attempt to prove a point against me is admirable. If I were scum in your position, I would have undoubtedly said nothing and allow him to think whatever he wills of you. Thus, at this point, I'm willing to believe have we may have simply allowed our wires to get crossed. unvote
You may continue to go forward with your case against me, and I will continue with the traditional dialogue that I have been engaging in thus far if you wish. However, I no longer believe that your intentions are misaligned. Besides… Arguably I did jump a little. :{
Bolding above is mine: But the point is - Birdy -still- refuses to answer TheWetSheep's questions. The only focus Birdy allows is his own. He 'slips' away from any answer to TheWetSheep's Scumhunting, instead saying 'alright, I forgive you, I guess what you said is not Scummy, and you did defend me from someone else's attack so you're alright'.
And can you please answer this question:I was scumhunting. What made you mistrust my intentions?
Birdy posts about the funeral in his family.
Birdy: You haven't responded to this post. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4738842#msg4738842)
Alright... I shall completely blunt.
My will to play this game is absolutely dead right now. Right now, I am performing a disservice by sticking around, as I am honestly in no mood nor the right mindset to be playing right now. Simply put, my presence is not helping anything.
I will make an attempt to respond to any and all questions that have been leveled against me, but after that I cannot continue and I will ask for a replacement. Sorry for any inconvenience in advance.
A warning and apology, as my temper is short in this particular segment. I still love you all, but right now I have no inhibitions.
[Quotes TheWetSheep, quotes I have posted already above]
Get off your ass and actually do something different. You've fixated on me over half week. Find a new obsession and stop kicking a dog while it's down.
Summary of Events from my Corner.
- TWS makes rolefishing accusation. Asks why I asked that question
- I refuse to answer said question, instead countering why he thinks I am rolefishing.
- He answers, keeping his vote there for the purpose that I dodged his question.
- I reply to his first question, stating that I had asked the question out of curiosity.
- Incessant bickering henceforth.
There is no further follow up from TheWetSheep D1, who cites lack of time.
D2 TheWetSheep ceases to chase Birdy's refusal to answer and appologizes for having pressed Birdy on it:
Birdy:Get off your ass and actually do something different. You've fixated on me over half week. Find a new obsession and stop kicking a dog while it's down.Sorry. I didn't want to move on until you answered my questions, and since I was really lacking time it was easier to just continue with that attack instead of combing the thread for a new one. Although I no longer think you are scum, due to the late-day stuff.
And the topic is dropped by both of them.
So that's my 'D1 case' on Birdy, that I never had time to properly prepare, and that earned him 'second scummiest' spot on my list D1. Add to it for D2 how he tried to save himself, late on D1, -what he said- when he appeared to be the D1 lynch choice:
The only way I could advance the Town Wincon, is to prevent my own death and allow myself a chance to take a Night Action. Assuming I'm still alive in the morning (Which, at this point is probably a fat chance), I should have some rudimentary information to work with.
I am confident I can find something over night. My role power is conducive to something like that happening. I'll vote myself if I fail to find anything.
My current case on him includes all of the D1 issues and these new factors as well:
Birdy:Birdy, why do you think you haven't been targeted for any night kills?
Likely because I had made too much of a fuss. To put it simply, I'm not an easy target.
What does your "made too much of a fuss" have to do with "not [being] an easy [night kill] target"?
When you say "made too much of a fuss", are you talking about your posts in this thread or something else?
His answer:
Theory time… Bear with me for a little bit.
I would like to assume that there is a certain level of scummitude some characters need to escape the wolves(Scum) and avoid frightening the lambs(Town). A players who accomplish both of these things, survives. For instance, take Hapah. I suspect that the only reason whatsoever he was killed, was that he was a wallflower. He wasn't taking risks, and caught the backhand of the scum team for it. I would dare anyone here to claim otherwise.
However, there is also such a thing as being "too Townie". If you truly establish yourself as a Townie, you’re also likely to wake up in the morning dead. This is why cops never claim, unless they are certain that they have found something. In my case however, I truly though I was lynchmeat. So at that point, there was nothing I felt that I needed to hide in order to live.
What I didn't expect, was that people were actually considering keeping me around in more ways than one. If I could escape the lynch with the claim that I was a cop, I fully expected the scum team to come running to kill me full throttle. Conversely, I knew there was likely a Townie who would want to keep me alive.
In other words, I could eat a NK attempt, know that someone tried to kill me, and thus take the necessary actions to figure who that person was. Unfortunately however, I caused too much trouble. They likely knew I was going to be protected… At least for tonight. That's what I meant for making too much of a fuss. A successful night kill on me would have been a dicey business.
I suppose that is the only reason I'm still here.
I did NOT ask him why he's still here. I asked him what he meant about "made too much of a fuss" and what he meant -was- "[making] too much of a fuss". He doesn't even slightly answer either question - just like he never even slightly answered TheWetSheep's question.
Now, as a broad generalization, I think some of these votes are a reaction to what I've said recently, or what someone else has said recently. It could be for many reasons, but these are those off the top of my head.
1). My case on NQT has traction, and they are chainsawing for him.
2). My ability Rerun scares the scum team. Yes, I can force one of the members of the scumteam to take their factional kill over and over on what is now essentially a corpse. Obviously, this would mean I could block any further NKs by the Scum Team if I guess correctly, and therefore keep the scum in check. I have asked Wuba about this one by the way.
3). They are worried about Cheeetar, who may or may not be scum. Personally, I lean towards no, although the rolefishing isn't exactly helping. (On that note, if your entire case rests upon me taking the time to tell you the nitty gritty of my role, you really don't have your priorities straight. Start answering other people's questions.)
1) Your 'case' on NQT looks really fluffy to me. He didn't react to your failure to address him directly - until you challenged him on failing to - that is your entire 'case' right?
Looks like tissue paper to me. I have suspicions about NQT but that to me looks like a null tell - even before he makes the claim that he was not watching that this game and that he's given up considering that meaningful as a Scum/Town tell.
2) Your ability 'Rerun' slightly scares me - looks like you can 'force' whoever did whatever was beneficial to you last night to keep doing that beneficial thing if you want (maybe it was a one shot, or maybe it was Hapah, so your Rerun wouldn't work. If I were Scum, what you've said about Rerun, I believe you'd make me laugh a bit. You'd have to successfully pick out not -only- a Scum member, but -the- Scum member who used the nightkill - and then you'd have to 'keep that Scum alive' in order to attempt to lock up that night kill. So you'd need to find someone that all other Town members want lynched, identify them (and your Scum hunting this game looks quite lackluster to me), and try to -prevent- the rest of Town from killing that Scum member who you-at-least (and if you identify them I bet others will have too - that person's getting lynched!) were able to identify until the other Scum had been found and slain - while not looking -too- scummy yourself for trying to keep an identified Scum alive, especially if there's not at least one other seriously Scummy target.
3) I'm worried about Cheeetar, who may or may not be Scum - much like I'm worried about most of the other players in the game - heck, I'm worried about Nerjin and he's at/close to my top Town pick this game. But that has NOTHING to do with how Scummy you look to me - you have created that yourself, not anyone else - and you have created this impression across the whole of the game so far.
So about Nerjin VS Cheeetar - it's pure statistics of my view of Nerjin versus Cheeetar. Nerjin's approximately my top Town pick. I -hate- what he's done at the end of D2 - waffling, backtracking, lack of conviction, apparently suspecting Birdy -only- because he thought Birdy voted for him. However, I think Nerjin has to work hard to play well, as Town or anything else. And I think Nerjin is Town, and the faults in his recent play is a Nerjin-trait.
That can be a reason to remove him from the group. But I think Nerjin's likely to return to trying to play well. If he does, I support him staying in the game - and I believe he's Town.
Cheeetar is close to null tell for me, slight lean Scum.
My choices right now are allowing Tiruin's vote to cause a no-lynch, supporting a Nerjin lynch, or supporting a Cheeetar lynch.
My first choice is still Birdy for the reasons listed above. If I see Birdy get enough votes again to become a possible lynch choice for today, I will switch my vote back to Birdy his lynch is possible.
Post by: Tiruin on November 17, 2013, 09:10:57 pm
Imp
> Monday, votecount as what I posted but since Birdy voted at the time, I thought he had power over his vote but then..Nerjin and him went into a tussle so I'm confused over that smoothtalking.
I remember Nerjin saying it captures the other's vote, so that's what I thought birdy did. That he could shift his vote--Nerjin can only shift it like its his vote but doesn't control it permanently.
...So Birdy did confuse me a bit there.
I bet Webadict ends his days on weekdays given he has a 'respect the weekend if I don't end it on Friday'-like policy.
Also it isn't sarcasm. We have the absence of a mod to confirm if Birdy's vote can actually be moved--Nerjin's subsequent reaction helped push it at the time.
He ALSO states its sorta like a private action but..I have a strange feeling about how he does his stuff (in which he only controls the vote OF his previous target if said target is the one voted) and all. Given the shifty shift there.
Post by: Nerjin on November 17, 2013, 09:34:38 pm
Post by: birdy51 on November 17, 2013, 09:43:17 pm
To explain my ramblings in short...
Being swapped would throw off my results in a way that I don't have quite enough information into. I've PMed Wubba about the matter. Beyond that, I really need shake off any residual lethargy. If people do have any questions that I have missed, or points that they want me to comment on that has been waiting for a long period of time, please bring it to my attention.
It's about damn time I got back into this game.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 17, 2013, 09:44:54 pm
Scary. I should've woken up earlier, but I had to let myself sleep in... I will claim if necessary, lynching me is a bad idea but I don't think lynching Nerjin is a good idea. I'll go for the tie vote over me dying. Could somebody please explain to me why a Birdy vote is no longer cromulent, for I am incredibly confused.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 17, 2013, 09:46:46 pm
Post by: Nerjin on November 17, 2013, 09:47:14 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on November 17, 2013, 09:51:52 pm
Post by: birdy51 on November 17, 2013, 09:53:12 pm
Cheeetar, realize that tying the vote is generally frowned upon. I am also confused as to why I am no longer set to be lynched, so I cannot help you there.
However, you may want to explain yourself here. What is causing you to be scared of this lynch?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 17, 2013, 09:54:27 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on November 17, 2013, 09:56:33 pm
Post by: Imp on November 17, 2013, 10:02:31 pm
Screw it, this is stupid. I am Ned Stark, and I am town. I have two abilities- The King's Hand, a day investigate, which I have used to determine that Tiruin (day 1) and Nerjin (day 2) are town. I also have a one-use night ability, Game of Thrones, which I may use to king somebody on the following day, giving them the only vote of the day. Don't lynch me damnit.
it seems we have time to talk. I am not ready to unvote/change who I vote for, but Tiruin says we're likely to have the rest of the weekend to talk. I like that idea, though I don't want to see a prolonged tie at any point.
Tell me -more details- about your use of your power.
When during D1 did you pick to investigate Tiruin, and why Tiruin?
When during D2 did you pick to investigate Nerjin, and why Nerjin?
Post by: Nerjin on November 17, 2013, 10:03:15 pm
Unvote
Birdy51
Yeah, turns out Birdy DIDN't vote me. Uh... So Birdy if you wanna use your vote in a way I'll use it on whom you want until Web gets back in here to fix that.
Sorry for not posting more guys, I've been busy today and still gotta get some stuff done.
So Nerjin, your reason for trying to lynch Birdy D2 is that you believed Birdy voted you (again)? - That's essentially your D1 reason, when you switched off of The_Iqovian and double voted Birdy.
And having realized you were wrong about Birdy's vote (because Web's vote count was wrong? - you didn't realize that you'd never seen Birdy vote for you this D and you never went back to double check because you couldn't remember it happening?) you took action and -now- regret it, so much that you focus only on your feelings (and not the reality of how the vote stands, so you unvote once, offer to 'give Birdy back his vote', just tell you how to use it - and create a tie in doing so.
Actually no, my main reasons for voting Birdy are:
1. Seems convinced that Toaster is town and had no way to prove it. Seemed fishy.
2. Dodged a TON of questions for a really crappy reason.
3. His vote for me was atrocious and extremely scummy.
4. His claim of basically being Kung-Fu Action Jesus were easily deconstructed and it really seems like he was aware that he wasn't and was only saying what it took to avoid being lynched.
All of which, by the way, I've been over before and he's been my main scum-pick throughout the day Imp. Pay attention to the game and read earlier posts of mine. But yes, I didn't notice I was creating a tie but...
Quote from: Same Quote
And then you do realize, and you fix it by unvoting, by doing the closest you can do to washing your hands of the entire situation without asking for a replacement. Talk about -no responsibility for how you use your vote-. But I know you 'just give up'. That's not a Scum tell from you, I don't know if you do it as Scum or not, but I know you have given up as Town before, and I think that's a you trait. A really scary one.
No responsibility? Piss off. How am I just giving up? I will claim FULL responsibility. Birdy is SCUM! But I will NOT create, knowingly, a tie! At this point it looks like I'm going to have to wait, again, to lynch someone who's actually scummy. Actually... Wait a minute...
Screw it, this is stupid. I am Ned Stark, and I am town. I have two abilities- The King's Hand, a day investigate, which I have used to determine that Tiruin (day 1) and Nerjin (day 2) are town. I also have a one-use night ability, Game of Thrones, which I may use to king somebody on the following day, giving them the only vote of the day. Don't lynch me damnit.
Okay, make someone king tomorrow then to PROVE you're town. Otherwise I will personally fit the noose for your neck. For now I think I can do this now after re-reading my role ability.
Birdy51
Smooth talking Iquovian [because I DO have to take the vote from someone voting me]
Birdy51
Post by: Nerjin on November 17, 2013, 10:06:06 pm
If someone goes Birdy I'll switch my vote, for now though...
Cheetar Cheetar
I don't know how much time we ACTUALLY have left so I'm just assuming we have 1 minute at all times.
Post by: Imp on November 17, 2013, 10:07:58 pm
Screw it, this is stupid. I am Ned Stark, and I am town. I have two abilities- The King's Hand, a day investigate, which I have used to determine that Tiruin (day 1) and Nerjin (day 2) are town. I also have a one-use night ability, Game of Thrones, which I may use to king somebody on the following day, giving them the only vote of the day. Don't lynch me damnit.
Okay, make someone king tomorrow then to PROVE you're town. Otherwise I will personally fit the noose for your neck. For now I think I can do this now after re-reading my role ability.
Birdy51
Smooth talking Iquovian [because I DO have to take the vote from someone voting me]
Birdy51
Back to my top Scum pick. Birdy
I also expect to be voting for Cheeetar D3 should there be no king made. I also think it's odd that Cheeetar claims to have only 2 abilities - I have -not- looked in depth into all of the past Web BYOR games but the ones I have looked at I remember almost all... maybe actually all players as having 3 powers. Going to research that right now, but posting immediately with vote because if Tiruin's wrong about weekends never having an end-day chance (and Web did not say 'extended until no longer weekend'), I feel time pressure. posting again after research.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 17, 2013, 10:08:08 pm
Screw it, this is stupid. I am Ned Stark, and I am town. I have two abilities- The King's Hand, a day investigate, which I have used to determine that Tiruin (day 1) and Nerjin (day 2) are town. I also have a one-use night ability, Game of Thrones, which I may use to king somebody on the following day, giving them the only vote of the day. Don't lynch me damnit.
it seems we have time to talk. I am not ready to unvote/change who I vote for, but Tiruin says we're likely to have the rest of the weekend to talk. I like that idea, though I don't want to see a prolonged tie at any point.
Tell me -more details- about your use of your power.
When during D1 did you pick to investigate Tiruin, and why Tiruin?
When during D2 did you pick to investigate Nerjin, and why Nerjin?
I was asked during Day 1 who I'd like to have as town- One of the people I would've quite liked to have been town was Tiruin, and thus I investigated Tiruin. Iqovian was somebody I felt I could get a read of, and wouldn't need to use my ability on to see the alignment of. I asked Webadict to queue my investigate of Nerjin for the end of day 1 night (and thus the start of day 2) so he would send me the results when he sent everybody else the results of their night actions, if I didn't die during the night. I was having doubts about Nerjin and he's been one of the more active players, and it would be very useful to me to know if I should continue being suspicious of him or not.
I really do hope the day continues until we've had more time.
Unvote Nerjin, vote Birdy51.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 17, 2013, 10:09:09 pm
Okay, make someone king tomorrow then to PROVE you're town.
Done.
Post by: Nerjin on November 17, 2013, 10:09:26 pm
also...
Birdy
Post by: Imp on November 17, 2013, 10:10:47 pm
I was asked during Day 1 who I'd like to have as town- One of the people I would've quite liked to have been town was Tiruin, and thus I investigated Tiruin. Iqovian was somebody I felt I could get a read of, and wouldn't need to use my ability on to see the alignment of. I asked Webadict to queue my investigate of Nerjin for the end of day 1 night (and thus the start of day 2) so he would send me the results when he sent everybody else the results of their night actions, if I didn't die during the night. I was having doubts about Nerjin and he's been one of the more active players, and it would be very useful to me to know if I should continue being suspicious of him or not.
I really do hope the day continues until we've had more time.
Unvote Nerjin, vote Birdy51.
When during D1 did you pick Tiruin to investigate? I know you cannot quote the PM, but are you willing/able to state the time of your PM to Web to ask your question?
Post by: Nerjin on November 17, 2013, 10:12:16 pm
Back to my top Scum pick. Birdy
I also expect to be voting for Cheeetar D3 should there be no king made. I also think it's odd that Cheeetar claims to have only 2 abilities - I have -not- looked in depth into all of the past Web BYOR games but the ones I have looked at I remember almost all... maybe actually all players as having 3 powers.
I only have 2 powers as well. Although I would think that "Smooth Talk" is powerful enough to count as two since I basically have "Double Vote" and "Erase A Vote". So maybe here Web makes SUPER powerful abilities count as two?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 17, 2013, 10:16:45 pm
When during D1 did you pick Tiruin to investigate? I know you cannot quote the PM, but are you willing/able to state the time of your PM to Web to ask your question?
Around 11pm for me. I'm not sure what time exactly it is for you- I'm on GST +10.
Post by: Imp on November 17, 2013, 10:19:45 pm
TolyK: 3 powers, 1 is 1-shot.
Hapah: 3 powers, 1 is 1-shot.
BYOR 11:
1 player: 1 power, with several random picked-from effects, final one (has to be used 4 times previously) wins the game.
Alright, stopping research at that point.
It's clearly a reasonable claim.
Cheeetar: What calendar day?
Post by: Cheeetar on November 17, 2013, 10:20:46 pm
Cheeetar: What calendar day?
30th November, 23:04:35
Post by: Imp on November 17, 2013, 10:22:56 pm
Cheeetar: What calendar day?
30th November, 23:04:35
30th
Post by: Cheeetar on November 17, 2013, 10:27:08 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on November 17, 2013, 10:28:47 pm
Post by: Imp on November 17, 2013, 10:31:25 pm
Greenwich Meridian Time, not Goods and Services Tax. Sorry. The time offset in the looks and layouts bit of my profile reads as 16.
For me your quoted post was made "Today at 10:28:47 pm" What time do you see on your post? With the way I think, this is the easiest way for me to understand the time difference between what you see and say and what I see and say.
Post by: Cheeetar on November 17, 2013, 10:33:29 pm
Greenwich Meridian Time, not Goods and Services Tax. Sorry. The time offset in the looks and layouts bit of my profile reads as 16.
For me your quoted post was made "Today at 10:28:47 pm" What time do you see on your post? With the way I think, this is the easiest way for me to understand the time difference between what you see and say and what I see and say.
« Reply #510 on: Today at 14:28:47 »
That's what I see as the time on the post you quoted. So I'm 8 hours in the past for you?
Post by: Imp on November 17, 2013, 10:36:24 pm
Aha! But Oct 30th is the day that the game started. I don't need the exact time anymore, you're essentially saying that you picked the very beginning of D1 to pick who to investigate.
Why did you pick the very beginning of D1, when the least amount of information was available, instead of later or late on D1, when you 'might' have had some suspicions because of people's posts/reactions to yourself and other players?
Greenwich Meridian Time, not Goods and Services Tax. Sorry. The time offset in the looks and layouts bit of my profile reads as 16.
For me your quoted post was made "Today at 10:28:47 pm" What time do you see on your post? With the way I think, this is the easiest way for me to understand the time difference between what you see and say and what I see and say.
« Reply #510 on: Today at 14:28:47 »
That's what I see as the time on the post you quoted. So I'm 8 hours in the past for you?
It only mattered for me for purposes of 'math', to figure out when to 'insert' your choice of when you chose to ask into the flow of your-and-others' posts of the thread.
If I'd double checked when the game started sooner, I would have not bothered to poke you for exact time, whoops.
Post by: birdy51 on November 17, 2013, 10:38:03 pm
At this point though, I'm not willing to argue the point. Your usefulness is absolutely limited until you break out of this tunneling cycle, and the title of Kung-Fu Jesus amuses me. No words from me are going to find much quarter with you. If you are so convinced that I am scum, that you are willing to bend the entire town over backwards to achieve a lynch on me, just do it and be done with it. This form of Tunneling only gets worse as Days go on. Besides, Rerun isn't nearly accurate enough to attempt to lock down the scum team.
Now... I hesitate not when I say you are complete and utter idiot if you think that Cheeetar's just going to magically make you king. Not because he doesn't have the power, but because claiming who your are targeting for a night action is practically begging for it to be intercepted. I would far prefer that he keep his choice a secret. The fact that there is a King should be enough to prove his innocence. You are already power hungry enough regardless. Unless you have some kind of double lynching ability to go along with double voting, I can't see any reason that you should proclaim yourself King.
Beyond that, reads. I have a negative opinion towards Imp now. His argument seems that it was drawn up in the focus of seeing me lynched, as opposed to proving me as scum. He places a lot of emphasis on my slipperiness, as opposed to what and why's as to how I claim, and his apparent irk for my self-deprecating remarks that I consider myself a textbook example of a Genre Savvy Village idiot. That's really all I have the patience for when it regards his text wall. Once tomorrow comes, I really recommend you dissect it.
Now, everyone else. NQT has mostly flown off the scum radar, due to his very... Absent playing. A scum player would likely have more clue as to what is going, giving the Private Chat. Cheeetar has mostly proved his innocence, and Shakerag's weak argument(which he retracted rather swiftly) would be worth investigating. I believe Toaster's claim, and Tiruin and Nerjin have been marked as Town. Really, at this point I feel that we are standing a good chance of winning this game, barring any extreme circumstances, so I am content with dying, moreso than Day 1, where I still felt that I could contribute.
If I had to make an educated guess, my Scumteam Family Picture would look something like this:
Iqovian, Imp, Shakerag.
NQT could be interchanged as well, but that is where I would be pursuing.
For the case of talking though, I do have one more role, and it is rather insignificant. It is Rebroadcast, which let's get the other set of information that I didn't get the previous night. So since I learned about what successfully effected the night prior, I would now learn who successfully visited me.
The only thing I could do with it, is figure out who my guardian angel was, so I'm honestly not to concerned that I won't get the chance to use it. My usefulness is limited, until my innocence is proven by death. If it is necessary that I die as a martyr for the town, then so be it. I will be your Kung-Fu Jesus Nerjin.
Kent Brockman, signing off. (again!)
Post by: Cheeetar on November 17, 2013, 10:41:35 pm
Cheeetar:
Aha! But Oct 30th is the day that the game started. I don't need the exact time anymore, you're essentially saying that you picked the very beginning of D1 to pick who to investigate.
Why did you pick the very beginning of D1, when the least amount of information was available, instead of later or late on D1, when you 'might' have had some suspicions because of people's posts/reactions to yourself and other players?
To eliminate a person from the crosshairs, I suppose. If I know for sure that somebody is town, then I can trust everything they say and I don't have to worry that they're lying.
Post by: Nerjin on November 17, 2013, 10:42:49 pm
Now... I hesitate not when I say you are complete and utter idiot if you think that Cheeetar's just going to magically make you king. Not because he doesn't have the power, but because claiming who your are targeting for a night action is practically begging for it to be intercepted. I would far prefer that he keep his choice a secret. The fact that there is a King should be enough to prove his innocence. You are already power hungry enough regardless. Unless you have some kind of double lynching ability to go along with double voting, I can't see any reason that you should proclaim yourself King.
Oh your words, they sting! Oh wait... No they don't. Not until you point out where I say "Hey Cheetar! Make me king because I want that sort of responsibility!" I said Someone, not me. You can keep your guilt tripping to yourself.
Post by: Imp on November 17, 2013, 10:43:57 pm
Ooh Nerjin... I am not Magic Kung-Fu Jesus.
At this point though, I'm not willing to argue the point. Your usefulness is absolutely limited until you break out of this tunneling cycle, and the title of Kung-Fu Jesus amuses me. No words from me are going to find much quarter with you. If you are so convinced that I am scum, that you are willing to bend the entire town over backwards to achieve a lynch on me, just do it and be done with it. This form of Tunneling only gets worse as Days go on. Besides, Rerun isn't nearly accurate enough to attempt to lock down the scum team.
Now... I hesitate not when I say you are complete and utter idiot if you think that Cheeetar's just going to magically make you king. Not because he doesn't have the power, but because claiming who your are targeting for a night action is practically begging for it to be intercepted. I would far prefer that he keep his choice a secret. The fact that there is a King should be enough to prove his innocence. You are already power hungry enough regardless. Unless you have some kind of double lynching ability to go along with double voting, I can't see any reason that you should proclaim yourself King.
Beyond that, reads. I have a negative opinion towards Imp now. His argument seems that it was drawn up in the focus of seeing me lynched, as opposed to proving me as scum. He places a lot of emphasis on my slipperiness, as opposed to what and why's as to how I claim, and his apparent irk for my self-deprecating remarks that I consider myself a textbook example of a Genre Savvy Village idiot. That's really all I have the patience for when it regards his text wall. Once tomorrow comes, I really recommend you dissect it.
Now, everyone else. NQT has mostly flown off the scum radar, due to his very... Absent playing. A scum player would likely have more clue as to what is going, giving the Private Chat. Cheeetar has mostly proved his innocence, and Shakerag's weak argument(which he retracted rather swiftly) would be worth investigating. I believe Toaster's claim, and Tiruin and Nerjin have been marked as Town. Really, at this point I feel that we are standing a good chance of winning this game, barring any extreme circumstances, so I am content with dying, moreso than Day 1, where I still felt that I could contribute.
If I had to make an educated guess, my Scumteam Family Picture would look something like this:
Iqovian, Imp, Shakerag.
NQT could be interchanged as well, but that is where I would be pursuing.
For the case of talking though, I do have one more role, and it is rather insignificant. It is Rebroadcast, which let's get the other set of information that I didn't get the previous night. So since I learned about what successfully effected the night prior, I would now learn who successfully visited me.
The only thing I could do with it, is figure out who my guardian angel was, so I'm honestly not to concerned that I won't get the chance to use it. My usefulness is limited, until my innocence is proven by death. If it is necessary that I die as a martyr for the town, then so be it. I will be your Kung-Fu Jesus Nerjin.
Kent Brockman, signing off. (again!)
Wait Birdy - what about the 'roleswap' you alluded to Web 'alluding' to in this post?
As a side note, Wubba alluded to the idea that I have been swapped, or that my role becomes a bit convoluted with swapping. Take this as you will. It's up to you guys at this point.
If Iqovian flips town, do your dead buddy a favor and lynch Nerjin. Two double Town Voters, plus the ability to steal someone else's vote isn't really a Town strength. Anyways this is Kent Brockman, signing off.
Also, at that time you appear to highly suspect Nerjin.
He doesn't make your most recent list today at all, instead you even throw NQT as a possible inclusion.
Is that because you never really suspected Nerjin in the first place, and are just saying whatever makes it most believable in the moment that you're not Scum?
Being able to follow your thought processes is extremely useful in trying to determine your alignment. What you -do- show and say about them, (what you show is largely -lack-, in my view, as I explained in my case against you) - you seem highly Scummy.
Post by: birdy51 on November 17, 2013, 10:59:35 pm
You forget, that at that point I believe that my vote was taken, and thus was merely a symbol, as opposed to an actual weapon. As I have already explained to Tiruin, it was cathartic to vote you as you have made numerous, but well-intentioned plots to lynch me. It had no purpose but making feel better, as I PMed that I lost my vote. The fact that you didn't notice that at all is rather disturbing.
As per the first, I have to be successfully targeted. Merely being targeted isn't enough. For me to detect them, I have to be effected by them. Thus, I don't know how redirects work in regard to my role. They don't change me in any shape or form directly, so I don't know if I detect them. Hence, I sent the PM.
Nerjin:
Now... I hesitate not when I say you are complete and utter idiot if you think that Cheeetar's just going to magically make you king. Not because he doesn't have the power, but because claiming who your are targeting for a night action is practically begging for it to be intercepted. I would far prefer that he keep his choice a secret. The fact that there is a King should be enough to prove his innocence. You are already power hungry enough regardless. Unless you have some kind of double lynching ability to go along with double voting, I can't see any reason that you should proclaim yourself King.
Oh your words, they sting! Oh wait... No they don't. Not until you point out where I say "Hey Cheetar! Make me king because I want that sort of responsibility!" I said Someone, not me. You can keep your guilt tripping to yourself.
*shrugs*
I wasn't calling you stupid, just the idea that you are entitled to kingship because you can lynch him stupid. I also don't quite see the guilt tripping. You strike me as someone who has had to deal with people who are sarcastic often, and now struggles to understand a person who limits his sarcasm because it just doesn't translate over the interwebs. I really do think that I need to die before you can do anything remotely useful. O.o
Post by: Imp on November 17, 2013, 11:09:47 pm
Now... I hesitate not when I say you are complete and utter idiot if you think that Cheeetar's just going to magically make you king. Not because he doesn't have the power, but because claiming who your are targeting for a night action is practically begging for it to be intercepted. I would far prefer that he keep his choice a secret. The fact that there is a King should be enough to prove his innocence. You are already power hungry enough regardless. Unless you have some kind of double lynching ability to go along with double voting, I can't see any reason that you should proclaim yourself King.
Oh your words, they sting! Oh wait... No they don't. Not until you point out where I say "Hey Cheetar! Make me king because I want that sort of responsibility!" I said Someone, not me. You can keep your guilt tripping to yourself.
*shrugs*
I wasn't calling you stupid, just the idea that you are entitled to kingship because you can lynch him stupid. I also don't quite see the guilt tripping. You strike me as someone who has had to deal with people who are sarcastic often, and now struggles to understand a person who limits his sarcasm because it just doesn't translate over the interwebs. I really do think that I need to die before you can do anything remotely useful. O.o
I'll go back and reread for the point you say I missed. I'll be eating dinner first, but in case of thread lock at any moment without warning, I'll respond to this first because I have a response now -
Birdy, I too believe that Nerjin -never said- to Cheeetar to make any specific person, Nerjin or other, King.
He warned Cheeetar that he would have Nerjin's vote D3 if there was no king. I seconded that it was -likely- that I would also choose to vote for Cheeetar (as a liar is the reason I don't give) if there is no King made D3.
But even if we see a king D3, that's not proof that Cheeetar's telling the truth, or that Cheeetar is Town. However I do think it's an unlikely power for a Scum to have (3rd party maybe...) but anyone making a King D3 would provide 'proof' that appears to support Cheeetar's claim - if he is Scum and anyone on the Scum team has that power, then he's quite safe in making the claim and believing it'll get followed through on.
Post by: birdy51 on November 17, 2013, 11:34:56 pm
I read Nerjin's post as "Make me king" tomorrow, which I now realize was a mistake.
Regardless, I'm not going to argue semantics any longer. It's not accomplishing much in the way of actual gameplay.
Post by: Imp on November 17, 2013, 11:39:14 pm
Silly Imp, Trix are for kids!
You forget, that at that point I believe that my vote was taken, and thus was merely a symbol, as opposed to an actual weapon. As I have already explained to Tiruin, it was cathartic to vote you as you have made numerous, but well-intentioned plots to lynch me. It had no purpose but making feel better, as I PMed that I lost my vote. The fact that you didn't notice that at all is rather disturbing.
Since the only time this game you've voted for -me- was today, and you didn't address Tiruin in that post or since making it, I'm assuming you mean one of your earlier votes of Nerjin - correct me if I'm misunderstanding your misunderstanding?
Otherwise - I have NO idea why you say that my failure to notice a conversation that has never happened is disturbing.
However you may be referring to this response, not directed to Tiruin (no quote, no bolded or unbolded use of Tiruin's name), but it does come after she posted "I dunno where [birdy51's] vote went".
My own vote is purely symbolic, seeing as he stole my vote and refuses to allow me to use it. He's been the main instigator of my lynch, so it was a bit cathartic even if it was useless. ^.^
I disagree with you, assuming that you are Town.
Your vote, your case, your reasoning - all of those are greatly meaningful. At the end of D1 you claimed to have no power to help Town, save through your survival and use of actions. If you are Town (and even if you are not) that is -false-.
Your words, your observations, you reasoning, and your scumhunting efforts - all of those can, and should, be turned to the service of the Town wincon. You can and should do this if you are about to die or not, you can do this at all times if you are Town or even if you are a third party with a wincon that doesn't require Town to lose.
Even if your vote will not show up on the Vote Count - who you -would- vote for, and who you do suspect is meaningful - given that you say -why- and that your reasons are rational and honest. You do understand this on some level, you are speaking towards the future, offering the best you have to give for your Wincon's achievement in the days to come.
That's what I wanted you to do D1, when I asked you:
Birdy:
If you want to say more about this, [quote removed for brevity] or this, [quote removed for brevity] or anything else that you feel might help achieve your wincon, I'm listening.
That you essentially refused then bugged me a lot.
That you are doing so now is better. You're still my current top Scum pick by a wide margin, but at least you -appear- to be working towards a future achievement of a Wincon. Doesn't make your suppositions correct or incorrect, but you at least -at last- appear to be trying. If you'd appeared to be trying all game, instead of at the very end now, you wouldn't be my top Scum pick.
Post by: birdy51 on November 17, 2013, 11:52:36 pm
I have made an effort throughout this game to play to the best of my abilities, at the times that I could, and generally under the effects of stress. The fact that you say that I wasn't trying at all is quite frankly a bit insulting, and absolute failing as a player to read in deeper.
Where I have failed as a scumhunter, I have succeeded as a Townie. I created material that the Town can use. Nearly every single player has leveled an argument against me at some point, which means that I can be used as a nexus for conversation, long after I am gone. Why are they saying this? Why do the assume this? Why is that case half-baked? I did what I could to encourage this kind of thought, with very little success.
So, it looks I'll have to wait until I am dead to achieve results.
On another note, TWS, is also a consideration for the Scum Team. I originally thought he was a Townie, due to the fact that he rebuffed someone else for their bandwagoning of me. However, he has since done little of note, and has mostly avoided me. Deathsword also falls under this category... Which complicates things. Because of this, I have begun to doubt myself on you being scum, and I would rather not allow my words to condemn someone after I am gone.
unvote
Post by: Tiruin on November 18, 2013, 12:58:56 am
Quick question. Why do you keep on saying 'TOWN CAN BENEFIT FROM MY WORDS' pre-death? That's an obvious note if you're town. You don't need to repeat that over and over again. What does that achieve? While I do understand those feelings pre-death (yeah, 'when I was your age...') I precisely wonder why you keep on putting that in as a repeating tone instead of a final rest-note.
Post by: Tiruin on November 18, 2013, 01:52:07 am
NerjinMy vote!
Me explanation: (Oh FINALLY I get to talk)
Why Nerjin? I'll contrast and detail my thought process along his attitude. It. Ain't. Towny. [Ok, vague. Not enough to SAY Town, same as SCUM but I see misuse of his double vote. ALSO, I did notice that I..tied the vote back there..Erh. Generally, I got confused by all the unvote//votes at the point there, to answer yer query Imp. Add in the note that I didn't get how Nerjin's power works (smooth-talking, to me, is a benevolent persuasion thing. It can use someone, but that someone also has power to withdraw..that power that is being persuaded on him to be used. Do you get how I saw it then?]
The prelude (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4746695#msg4746695). Wherein I catch up to this game via tracing.
I think to myself that the thing on birdy has more to it than first appears to the eye, to I backtracked and cross-traced the lines from his posts and whomever is hitting him on pertinent and conclusive reasons.
First note (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4732803#msg4732803) of suspicion starts here. I figure some notes on TWS/birdy chat count as...answering a query on 'being satisfied with your role'...which is really a strange point of a subject given how satisfaction goes along..a lot of paths. ANYWAY
Secondary scum pick because of..as far as I see, that single thing in that spoiler (or single thing + other things. Doesn't look like much to be a huge pick there).
Nerjin: Pick-up question. What, exactly, in that linked post/spoiler, made you suspicious about birdy? Why?
Next note: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4733517#msg4733517) Well, a bit of a minor detail, but I note how birdy is being a cheery...bird [first sentence, no?]. The happy kind. It's amusing, in a good way, but may explain his behavior later on. Which continues...
And has no deviation from being happy! Though I did mark this note to DS on how... (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4736489#msg4736489)it seems DS is blowing up a superficial feel of Toaster = Town. We all have our first impressions..and given the context of birdy's note, said impression seems to have agitated people a bit there.
Pertinent note.. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4740900#msg4740900)I didn't see much interaction between Nerjin and birdy there. It's like a HUGE jump. Said case at hand is... (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4741231#msg4741231)well. VERY interesting. Compare and contrast: votecount in that scenario.
...Will continue soon, but found myself lacking time. Excuse me there.
Other Stuff
This game, counting only roleflipped players (not including claims):I have 1 one-shot and 2 other powers. Yeah I see symmetry.
TolyK: 3 powers, 1 is 1-shot.
Hapah: 3 powers, 1 is 1-shot.
Webadict: Direct time count please? This... (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4769674#msg4769674)is generally a vague time as I presume you'd be having a great week out with family. :)
Shakerag: I..count you as the nearest person to my # of posts. What's up with the activity?
Post by: Imp on November 18, 2013, 06:44:54 am
ALSO, I did notice that I..tied the vote back there..Erh. Generally, I got confused by all the unvote//votes at the point there, to answer yer query Imp. Add in the note that I didn't get how Nerjin's power works (smooth-talking, to me, is a benevolent persuasion thing. It can use someone, but that someone also has power to withdraw..that power that is being persuaded on him to be used. Do you get how I saw it then?]
Think so. No further questions on your perspective of it for now at least.
What you say about Nerjin is: Not Town, because attitude.
What you say about Birdy is: Cheery, uniformly cheery with one exception.
It's probably telling that you don't also say 'not-Town' about Birdy - but how do you read Birdy, Tiruin, on the alignment scale?
Two things that Nerjin -didn't- originally say about his 'Smooth Talking' was that
1) if it was one-shot or not.
2) that it required someone to first vote him, before he could 'steal' that vote.
I intentionally didn't ask about the one-shot or not (I wondered if he would volunteer, I wondered who else might ask - and I expected it was probably one shot).
Web did not support Nerjin's claim that 'Smooth Talking' requires a person to first vote Nerjin (at least that same day) because Web showed us a vote count that DID include Nerjin's double vote, DID NOT include any mention of Birdy's vote, AND was clarified at the bottom that neither of those things (or The_Iqovian's double vote).... (Mmmmm The_Iquovian. Interested in that one's role flip, I think he's pretty Scummy, irrespective of Cheeetar's defense.)
Right! Focused on Nerjin's claim about his vote. Since Web thought Birdy voted for Nerjin, Web's post of votecount might have been completely in error in terms of Birdy's vote, if Nerjin -is- limited to stealing the vote of someone who has voted for him -that same day-.
However, Nerjin wasn't under serious pressure when he finally did mention he could only steal the vote of someone who had voted for him. Assuming he's telling the truth about that - Nerjin is -effectively forced- to OMGUS in a way if he wishes to -ever- use that power.
Considering -if- it is true, that Nerjin may only use his power to steal a vote if that vote is cast upon him, does Nerjin still appear to be misusing his double vote? If so - would any use of Nerjin's vote stealing ability be misuse, given that limitation he claims it has?
Post by: Imp on November 18, 2013, 06:49:14 am
Web did not support Nerjin's claim that 'Smooth Talking' requires a person to first vote Nerjin (at least that same day) because Web showed us a vote count that DID include Nerjin's double vote, DID NOT include any mention of Birdy's vote, AND was clarified at the bottom that neither of those things (or The_Iqovian's double vote).... (Mmmmm The_Iquovian. Interested in that one's role flip, I think he's pretty Scummy, irrespective of Cheeetar's defense.)
Got distracted and didn't finish that paragraph: "AND was clarified at the bottom that neither of those things were an error. So Web specifically verified that Birdy had lost his vote and that Nerjin had two votes again.
Post by: Teneb on November 18, 2013, 08:32:45 am
unvote. Looking at the whole Cheeetar thing, I think in D1 it was just him trying to protect a real-life friend that happened to be acting in a scummy manner than an actual scumbuddy. I'd also like to see that king ability.
Birdy, I have no idea why I was stupid enough to unvote you in D1. Your "premonition" about Toaster, you dancing around TWS's questions, claiming to have the best inspect EVAR right before being lynched, then comes D2 and oops, turns out it was not the best inspect EVAR. In D2 you once again faced the lynch, and once again claimed. Imp made quite a strong case against you, which you then dismiss as a "plot". It looks to me that you are just trying to stay alive, no matter what. You are using a lot of appeals to emotion, calling yourself an idiot to deflect attention. I don't like what you are doing, it reeks of desperation.
NQT, looks like your situation is quite ironic. You kept poking at others for inactivity rather than scumhunting, from what I've seen, and now you are inactive yourself.
Post by: notquitethere on November 18, 2013, 10:01:11 am
Screw it, this is stupid. I am Ned Stark, and I am town. I have two abilities- The King's Hand, a day investigate, which I have used to determine that Tiruin (day 1) and Nerjin (day 2) are town. I also have a one-use night ability, Game of Thrones, which I may use to king somebody on the following day, giving them the only vote of the day. Don't lynch me damnit.Sounds like plausible powers for what you've claimed and we'll be able to tell on Day 3 whether you're telling the truth. Assuming this is the case, we can set up some nice trust-cascades (especially as a Day Investigate is a lot more trustworthy than a night investigate which might have redirected). Giving you the benefit of the doubt for now, I'll rule out you, Nerjin and Tiruin for today's lynch pending your power confirmation tomorrow.
I've updated my rudimentary target analysis
Spoiler: Who voted who today: updated (click to show/hide)
Based on the assumption that Cheetar is crypto-confirmed (not in any way actually confirmed, but hypothetically confirmed pending tomorrow), then we can put aside Tiruin and Nerjin for today, who he alleges to have day-copped. The Iqovian is going to be modkilled so he's not a suspect either. What strikes me is the extraordinary uniformity of vote targets. Today's top suspected players, by ranking of suspicions:
Spoiler: Top suspicions (players with more than 3 people suspecting them) (click to show/hide)
So of the three most suspected players, two are claimed to have been cleared by Cheetar. We are in an excellent position: if Cheetar is town then we have two confirmed town. If Cheetar is scum then we most likely have one confirmed fellow-scum (why else would a scum-Cheetar clear his lynch-candidate rival Nerjin?). Unvote. What with all these vote shenanigans, before I can make an informed decision, I need a vote count so I know I'm not creating a draw.
Post by: birdy51 on November 18, 2013, 10:04:44 am
First of all, I am sorry for my exceedingly shitty play so far. I let real-life stress get to me and didn't want to admit it was making my performance in mafia poor. I'll try to make up for that, but I'll understand if you don't believe me on this right away.
unvote. Looking at the whole Cheeetar thing, I think in D1 it was just him trying to protect a real-life friend that happened to be acting in a scummy manner than an actual scumbuddy. I'd also like to see that king ability.
Birdy, I have no idea why I was stupid enough to unvote you in D1. Your "premonition" about Toaster, you dancing around TWS's questions, claiming to have the best inspect EVAR right before being lynched, then comes D2 and oops, turns out it was not the best inspect EVAR. In D2 you once again faced the lynch, and once again claimed. Imp made quite a strong case against you, which you then dismiss as a "plot". It looks to me that you are just trying to stay alive, no matter what. You are using a lot of appeals to emotion, calling yourself an idiot to deflect attention. I don't like what you are doing, it reeks of desperation.
NQT, looks like your situation is quite ironic. You kept poking at others for inactivity rather than scumhunting, from what I've seen, and now you are inactive yourself.
Sweet heavens you are a complete fool. I am not in any way shape or form desperate, and if you think I am, then you have no clue what the hell is going on in this game. I note now, that you have yet to call me scum. You're voting me because I supposedly want to stay alive, which is false. Dying is a part of this game, and if people want to take the mislynch cases against me seriously, I first have to die.
As to the second point, a lot of what I say is off the cuff. When I made the "case" against Imp, it was my firsthand feelings and emotions. It only took me an hour to realize that I was likely that I had the wrong idea. Hence, I unvoted him. He's working hard to justify his case, but he might not neccessarially wrong for it. At this point, I see him as a player who feels that he needs to justify his case against me, likely because he is deep down rather uncertain about me. That is not really scum behavior. Just stupid behavior on my part.
Now as for you. I call it as it is. If my own actions cause me to die, then those are my mistakes. I am a fool for committing them. Would I say anything else? Hell no. Honesty is the best course of action, even if it's not pretty. And now to be perfectly honest, your case is weak and does nothing but justify your vote. Not once do you use the word scum in your accusation, not once do you say that my behavior is wrong. You are not lynching me because I am scum, you are lynching me because of my failings as a player. And to me, that is the basest of scumplay.
Deathsword, why didn't you use the word scum when you addressed me?
Tiruin
birdy:
Quick question. Why do you keep on saying 'TOWN CAN BENEFIT FROM MY WORDS' pre-death? That's an obvious note if you're town. You don't need to repeat that over and over again. What does that achieve? While I do understand those feelings pre-death (yeah, 'when I was your age...') I precisely wonder why you keep on putting that in as a repeating tone instead of a final rest-note.
Mostly because the issue keeps becoming agitated, and I feel the overwhelming need to repeat myself because of it. As childish as it sounds, I think my base emotions of "I MUST HAVE THE LAST WORD!" is getting the better of me. Physical and mental exhaustion could also be playing a role. I tend to lose filters the more agitated I become. My final rest really is never my final rest. It's sort of like the end of a Beethoven Sonata. Constant agitation, no real conclusion. Luckily I think the song is almost over now.
But... Before the song ends, I would like to notice that there is an extreme focus on what makes me scum. Before I die, ask that anyone voting me indulge me in one last little game.
All who vote me: The main focus of this game right now is on how I am scum. However, there is an argument to be made for the flipside of the coin. What could make me Townie? I ask this not to escape the noose, but to build material. I want everyone to express doubts if they have them, and for those doubts to be made known.
Post by: Teneb on November 18, 2013, 11:06:05 am
Deathsword, why didn't you use the word scum when you addressed me?To put it quite simply: I have the suspicion that you are a third party. Looking at your interaction with others, I can't see much that would imply a scumbuddy. I strongly believe you are not town. I am not sure you are mafia.
Do you, feel that scum should only be used when talking about mafia players, or about any anti-town factions, in general?
If you consider it to be a valid term for any anti-town, allow me to say it for your satisfaction: you are scum. If only for mafia players, then let me put it this way: maybe you are scum.
Post by: Shakerag on November 18, 2013, 11:26:37 am
Shakerag: I..count you as the nearest person to my # of posts. What's up with the activity?First off, I'm guessing that since you're voting Nerjin that you don't trust Cheeetar's claim of inspecting him as town? Do you think Cheeetar is lying, or that Nerjin has some manner of godfather-like ability?
Secondly, I almost never post on weekends, and I'm busy most of the rest of the time. Haven't we been over this before? I try to make at least one (if not more than one) fairly substantial post per weekday.
Post by: Toaster on November 18, 2013, 12:02:52 pm
Post by: notquitethere on November 18, 2013, 12:31:20 pm
I wish I had time to read through this right now, but I would like to point out that confirming Cheeetar's kingmaker ability does NOT confirm him as town.Yeah I guess that's true enough but it does show that he isn't just making stuff up and it does give investigators a big incentive to look into him.
Post by: birdy51 on November 18, 2013, 02:04:04 pm
Deathsword, why didn't you use the word scum when you addressed me?To put it quite simply: I have the suspicion that you are a third party. Looking at your interaction with others, I can't see much that would imply a scumbuddy. I strongly believe you are not town. I am not sure you are mafia.
Do you, feel that scum should only be used when talking about mafia players, or about any anti-town factions, in general?
If you consider it to be a valid term for any anti-town, allow me to say it for your satisfaction: you are scum. If only for mafia players, then let me put it this way: maybe you are scum.
The term scum should only be applied to players who directly go against the Town wincon. Serial Killers, cultists, and members of the Mafia are scum. I personally deplore the idea of voting off Third Parties for the sake of lynching Third Parties, especially under the pretense of a policy lynch, as no one can truly tell whether a Third Party by what their intentions are. For instance, the Life Shaman lynch of The Witch's Coven was arguably a complete and utter mistake.
Now, as for myself being a Third Party, no. I can see where you are coming from, especially since my role implies fair and balanced news, which is conducive to the idea of an absent Third Party. However, if I was a Third Party I likely would have claimed it by now, especially since I would need the Town to not lynch me to give me ti to accomplish my Wincon. However, I can still win, even after I die. The fact that I am willing to die should make it obvious that I don't have any ulterior motives.
Still, I appreciate the fact that you are looking outside the box a bit.
As a side note... I wonder if I could use Rerun on the Kingmaker ability. I haven't received anything on how my role works in regards to X-Shots though. I've sent a PM, but I have not received anything back on it yet.
Post by: Tiruin on November 18, 2013, 03:32:03 pm
Deathsword~: I do like your reasons for hitting Birdy, foremost is a 'premonition' on Toaster. Hint hint, IT'S JUST A FEELING HE STATED EARLIER. Something which, in a very weird and totally illogical way (which I do note that you didn't inquire in depth on) would work as a tell on him?
Mmm, interesting. I'd like to note that the prospect of how the 'quality' of him claiming 'inspect' matters. Though I don't have birdy's most recent posts in, I've to query you.
If your case pokes birdy of his desperation, then why aren't you poking what is pertinent of him instead of what emotional attack you feel is appealing?
As in, on whether his inspect was of use or not? Or better yet, on why or how his actions certainly equal scum or not?
Also what kind of third-party? Judging by your aggression at the birdy-bird, it seems more of a malevolent third-party yet you don't expound on it. What set it off, and given your thoughts on him, what makes him a more...well, a better option than who you think is scum?
Imp:
Tiruin:((It's unfinished but I've published the standpoint wherein I note a discrepancy with logic and scumhunting. Birdy is...nominally town-leaning GIVEN the people's attack-standings on him. They're...weak, for lack of a synonym. To add, given that I'd be checking in an area with better net later, I'm going to pull my tabs on DS and TWS given that their votes note on Birdy's attitude))ALSO, I did notice that I..tied the vote back there..Erh. Generally, I got confused by all the unvote//votes at the point there, to answer yer query Imp. Add in the note that I didn't get how Nerjin's power works (smooth-talking, to me, is a benevolent persuasion thing. It can use someone, but that someone also has power to withdraw..that power that is being persuaded on him to be used. Do you get how I saw it then?]
Think so. No further questions on your perspective of it for now at least.
Shakerag
Tiruin:Let. Me. Get. To. It. Later. :IShakerag: I..count you as the nearest person to my # of posts. What's up with the activity?First off, I'm guessing that since you're voting Nerjin that you don't trust Cheeetar's claim of inspecting him as town? Do you think Cheeetar is lying, or that Nerjin has some manner of godfather-like ability?
Secondly, I almost never post on weekends, and I'm busy most of the rest of the time. Haven't we been over this before? I try to make at least one (if not more than one) fairly substantial post per weekday.
Though in foresight, I'm doing the checking from the start until now and..haven't caught up to the most recent posts. I'll do a comparing of those later.
...But given this, and my checks, Unvote. Comparing what my skimming has done with Cheet//birdy's relation, along with how Nerjin interacted..erh, can't quite see any malice between that in-between the lines.
Will expound later. No I doubt Nerjin, who claims two-voter (I doubt him vote-stealing..I do think he has the power to BORROW votes [as in the original user can still use his own vote given the VOTE-UNVOTE thing I saw them do), also has the power to be a godfather.
That's just wacky. Aaaaand that'd be a real interesting role (in which I'd ask NERJIN why he isn't expounding on his use of double-voting, despite using the heck out of it to.. 'untie the lynch', as far as I see the utility of it, rather than scumhunt thoroughly.)
I mean, checking back. You used it more of an 'I'm fed up with you go die VOTEVOTE' note + anger.
Bloody internet connections and their speed on loading a TEXT FORUM...
birdy
Thanks for the reply and..I'm getting a bit of mixed messages there. Though I see the metaphorical note you have, I've to ask.
Will you fullclaim before the lynch (given how..I really think it IS Monday in Webby-time) or just leave information hanging till the end? What makes you think otherwise or not- given the player stance at the moment?
Post by: Tiruin on November 18, 2013, 03:40:21 pm
It stretches vaguely to this point, (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4770622#msg4770622) wherein I'm bits and pieces confused about the Nerjin thing but..huh (It's incomplete being that I haven't caught onto the claims and what was in them in their totality pr on how I'll detail the connections I'm seeing.)
Post by: birdy51 on November 18, 2013, 04:19:11 pm
birdy
Thanks for the reply and..I'm getting a bit of mixed messages there. Though I see the metaphorical note you have, I've to ask.
Will you fullclaim before the lynch (given how..I really think it IS Monday in Webby-time) or just leave information hanging till the end? What makes you think otherwise or not- given the player stance at the moment?
I actually have full-claimed, just not in a single post. I'll reiterate all my claims here, to make it easier on you and anyone else who is curious.
1) This Just In - Gives me either the names of the people who visited me or the actions that were performed upon me during the Night randomly. Night 1, I learned that I was Protected.
2) Rebroadcast - I learn the other side of the information I did not receive the Night This Just In was used. In this case, I would learn who Protected me if I were to use it tonight.
3) Rerun - The target is forced to retake his action that he used the previous night. To my current understand, this works on any ability, even the factional Mafia kill.
Basically, the main reason I did that is because I don't have anything more to hide. This Just In was unfortunately weaker than I thought it was, which is part of the many colored rainbow reasons of why I am being lynched, and Rebroadcast follows suit.
I won't lie though, there is one final aspect about my role that is not could still benefit us. However, I honestly doubt anyone who is voting me gives a hoot about what I claim. (Bird pun!) WIFOM, etc.
Post by: Tiruin on November 18, 2013, 04:27:57 pm
Quote
I won't lie though, there is one final aspect about my role that is not could still benefit us. However, I honestly doubt anyone who is voting me gives a hoot about what I claim. (Bird pun!) WIFOM, etc.Eh, I do. You did mention an inspect going along and given the fullclaim..you may either be saving it if in case [SCUM_TEAM_STUFF] happens, which dictates all and any thoughts they may have in regard to you as a target or as a tool or..as anything, actually. Or you're saving it because of...the WIFOM it would create?
I don't get that (and ty for the summary)
Post by: Imp on November 18, 2013, 04:51:27 pm
birdy
Thanks for the reply and..I'm getting a bit of mixed messages there. Though I see the metaphorical note you have, I've to ask.
Will you fullclaim before the lynch (given how..I really think it IS Monday in Webby-time) or just leave information hanging till the end? What makes you think otherwise or not- given the player stance at the moment?
I actually have full-claimed, just not in a single post. I'll reiterate all my claims here, to make it easier on you and anyone else who is curious.
1) This Just In - Gives me either the names of the people who visited me or the actions that were performed upon me during the Night randomly. Night 1, I learned that I was Protected.
2) Rebroadcast - I learn the other side of the information I did not receive the Night This Just In was used. In this case, I would learn who Protected me if I were to use it tonight.
3) Rerun - The target is forced to retake his action that he used the previous night. To my current understand, this works on any ability, even the factional Mafia kill.
Basically, the main reason I did that is because I don't have anything more to hide. This Just In was unfortunately weaker than I thought it was, which is part of the many colored rainbow reasons of why I am being lynched, and Rebroadcast follows suit.
I won't lie though, there is one final aspect about my role that is not could still benefit us. However, I honestly doubt anyone who is voting me gives a hoot about what I claim. (Bird pun!) WIFOM, etc.
Mr Birdy-full-claimer, whyfore dost thou never be answerin' this question-o-mine?
Wait Birdy - what about the 'roleswap' you alluded to Web 'alluding' to in this post?As a side note, Wubba alluded to the idea that I have been swapped, or that my role becomes a bit convoluted with swapping. Take this as you will. It's up to you guys at this point.
Are you ever going to explain what you meant when you talked about Wubba and 'alluded' and 'the idea that [you] have been swapped' (that's a concrete idea, stands alone or should combine with the following) OR 'that [your] role becomes a bit convoluted with swapping' (that's an abstract idea, stands alone or should combine with the previous).
I can totally understand using an AND instead of the OR - to say that you have been told (not alluded to!) that you have been role swapped (you should have your new role though, right?) AND that whomever got your old role is going to get a few surprises, because it's not the same as it was when you had it last.
But to use OR there, you sound like you don't even know if Wubba told you your role was swapped, that your role would be weird if it became swapped --and you explain nothing (so far) as to why you said that or what you mean, because -everything- you've said since then has been about your newscaster role.
Explain yourself please, and explain why you didn't answer me earlier.
Post by: Teneb on November 18, 2013, 06:04:00 pm
Deathsword~: I do like your reasons for hitting Birdy, foremost is a 'premonition' on Toaster. Hint hint, IT'S JUST A FEELING HE STATED EARLIER. Something which, in a very weird and totally illogical way (which I do note that you didn't inquire in depth on) would work as a tell on him?A feeling? It was a pretty strange feeling since he didn't give absolutely no reasons for it. To top it off, he kept evading questions where he was asked to explain himself about it.
Mmm, interesting. I'd like to note that the prospect of how the 'quality' of him claiming 'inspect' matters. Though I don't have birdy's most recent posts in, I've to query you.Could you explain this better. I don't understand what most of this sentence mean. What I said about his inspect is that he claimed it was the most powerful inspect ever right as he was about to be lynched, and come D2 he says that it's actually something else entirely (it seems more like a watcher power to me).
Also what kind of third-party? Judging by your aggression at the birdy-bird, it seems more of a malevolent third-party yet you don't expound on it. What set it off, and given your thoughts on him, what makes him a more...well, a better option than who you think is scum?I said he was anti-town in a response to him, in my last post. If I thought he was a town-friendly third party, I wouldn't be going after him.
...But given this, and my checks, Unvote. Comparing what my skimming has done with Cheet//birdy's relation, along with how Nerjin interacted..erh, can't quite see any malice between that in-between the lines.Snipped most of the stuff here but, did you just unvote me in the same post?
Post by: birdy51 on November 18, 2013, 06:05:45 pm
I have a lot on my plate, and I thought I had answered that question. Regardless, my capacity for reading large posts is essentially null right now, so I very well could have missed it.
Regardless, my answer is constant and I fear that you are a bit confused. I don't fully understand the nature by which my role deals with redirects. People have to successfully visit me for me to detect them. I don't detect people who never reached me in the first place. Is that clear enough?
QuoteI won't lie though, there is one final aspect about my role that is not could still benefit us. However, I honestly doubt anyone who is voting me gives a hoot about what I claim. (Bird pun!) WIFOM, etc.Eh, I do. You did mention an inspect going along and given the fullclaim..you may either be saving it if in case [SCUM_TEAM_STUFF] happens, which dictates all and any thoughts they may have in regard to you as a target or as a tool or..as anything, actually. Or you're saving it because of...the WIFOM it would create?
I don't get that (and ty for the summary)
It's more that I doubt it would change anything, due to the fact that all of my other claims have already been waived off as WIFOM. Right now, I am seen as scum, which prevents me from doing anything remotely useful. No claim of mine is going to change that, given the amount of tunneling that is going on.
Post by: birdy51 on November 18, 2013, 06:08:06 pm
Could you explain what situations where in the early game that Informative Third Parties are more dangerous than the Scum Team?
Post by: Imp on November 18, 2013, 06:17:11 pm
Imp
I have a lot on my plate, and I thought I had answered that question. Regardless, my capacity for reading large posts is essentially null right now, so I very well could have missed it.
Regardless, my answer is constant and I fear that you are a bit confused. I don't fully understand the nature by which my role deals with redirects. People have to successfully visit me for me to detect them. I don't detect people who never reached me in the first place. Is that clear enough?
Huh. Your reply is clear but it does not answer my question - unless when you say "Regardless, my answer is constant" - you mean that you still won't answer it (constant, didn't answer before, won't answer now).
Short and sweet: What were you talking about when you said this:
As a side note, Wubba alluded to the idea that I have been swapped, or that my role becomes a bit convoluted with swapping. Take this as you will. It's up to you guys at this point.
What swapping are you talking about?
Post by: birdy51 on November 18, 2013, 06:39:32 pm
Imp
I have a lot on my plate, and I thought I had answered that question. Regardless, my capacity for reading large posts is essentially null right now, so I very well could have missed it.
Regardless, my answer is constant and I fear that you are a bit confused. I don't fully understand the nature by which my role deals with redirects. People have to successfully visit me for me to detect them. I don't detect people who never reached me in the first place. Is that clear enough?
Huh. Your reply is clear but it does not answer my question - unless when you say "Regardless, my answer is constant" - you mean that you still won't answer it (constant, didn't answer before, won't answer now).
Short and sweet: What were you talking about when you said this:As a side note, Wubba alluded to the idea that I have been swapped, or that my role becomes a bit convoluted with swapping. Take this as you will. It's up to you guys at this point.
What swapping are you talking about?
Ah... This is the source of confusion...
Let's assume that me and another player swap places in the Night. I receive his visitors, and he receives mine. It's the same basis of a Redirect.
Post by: Imp on November 18, 2013, 06:48:47 pm
Ah... This is the source of confusion...
Let's assume that me and another player swap places in the Night. I receive his visitors, and he receives mine. It's the same basis of a Redirect.
Aha! Thank you, the only type of 'swap' I was aware of was a full role swap, an exchange with another player, and I thought your words meant a very unclear and evasive 'well maybe' we won't see the role you claimed if your role is flipped.
I completely retract that portion of my case against you - that portion was my misunderstanding and thus is false.
You are still my top Scum pick even without that part though, because of the remaining reasons in the case I presented previously (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4770622#msg4770622), and I'm not changing my vote at this time.
Post by: birdy51 on November 18, 2013, 08:11:37 pm
Ah... This is the source of confusion...
Let's assume that me and another player swap places in the Night. I receive his visitors, and he receives mine. It's the same basis of a Redirect.
Aha! Thank you, the only type of 'swap' I was aware of was a full role swap, an exchange with another player, and I thought your words meant a very unclear and evasive 'well maybe' we won't see the role you claimed if your role is flipped.
I completely retract that portion of my case against you - that portion was my misunderstanding and thus is false.
You are still my top Scum pick even without that part though, because of the remaining reasons in the case I presented previously (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4770622#msg4770622), and I'm not changing my vote at this time.
That is fine. Now. Would you kindly respond to this request?
But... Before the song ends, I would like to notice that there is an extreme focus on what makes me scum. Before I die, ask that anyone voting me indulge me in one last little game.
All who vote me: The main focus of this game right now is on how I am scum. However, there is an argument to be made for the flipside of the coin. What could make me Townie? I ask this not to escape the noose, but to build material. I want everyone to express doubts if they have them, and for those doubts to be made known.
Post by: Imp on November 18, 2013, 08:56:31 pm
Ah... This is the source of confusion...
Let's assume that me and another player swap places in the Night. I receive his visitors, and he receives mine. It's the same basis of a Redirect.
Aha! Thank you, the only type of 'swap' I was aware of was a full role swap, an exchange with another player, and I thought your words meant a very unclear and evasive 'well maybe' we won't see the role you claimed if your role is flipped.
I completely retract that portion of my case against you - that portion was my misunderstanding and thus is false.
You are still my top Scum pick even without that part though, because of the remaining reasons in the case I presented previously (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4770622#msg4770622), and I'm not changing my vote at this time.
That is fine. Now. Would you kindly respond to this request?But... Before the song ends, I would like to notice that there is an extreme focus on what makes me scum. Before I die, ask that anyone voting me indulge me in one last little game.
All who vote me: The main focus of this game right now is on how I am scum. However, there is an argument to be made for the flipside of the coin. What could make me Townie? I ask this not to escape the noose, but to build material. I want everyone to express doubts if they have them, and for those doubts to be made known.
Honestly, I consider that when I prepared my case on you - which I prepared because of my overall evaluation of you.
"What could make [you] Townie?" - that's the same things that make anyone Townie. How you play, how you post.
You can stress and emphasize these things too, you know.
Are you Scumhunting? Where, how who? No really, I actually have to ask - Are you?
You don't have to 'stop your job' because someone is suspicious of you. I'll cite TheWetSheep's current case on me. He challenged my D1 case on TolyK (Odd that he didn't challenge it on D1, but alright) as hypocritical, that my pointing out TolyK's posts as active-lurking was unrelated to my case on him (hrm?), was a mixture of fluff and rolefishing accusations, and that I have no points outside my spoiler on him and my points inside the spoiler were overblown.
I answered his concerns with my reasoning and (given that I've been pretty time pressured until the middle of this weekend) moved on with what leads I could explore for everyone.
TheWetSheep replied with a post almost identical to his first, though he adds in accusations of buddying, bandwagoning and lying, connected to he doesn't know if I am but is that what I'm saying. He reinterprets my answer to him, my explanation that I was giving TolyK much to choose to react to and not react to, not only in words but also in tone, so I could study not only his answers but what he chose to answer and what he chose to ignore as 'Throwing a random scumtell at someone to make my case bigger'. That's a stretch, as where he takes it from isn't even my case against TolyK - in fact everything he's challenging isn't my actual case against TolyK.
There's nothing new for me to answer in his reply. TheWetSheep's actually doing a form of what he accuses me of, he nearly claims he is when he includes "I don't know whether you have been or not." in connection with "So I'm justified in saying you've been bandwagoning, lying, and buddying?"
He's doing 'poke the player, see if it bleeds Scum'. I don't challenge him for it because he's not looking highly Scummy to me - though he loses a few points for having 'let you go' the way he did and a few more for dropping his interrogation of me and for not really interrogating anyone else instead. He has 'points to lose' though - he's near the middle of my suspicions list - there's a lot of pretty non-Town play going on in this game, which is sad because how do we pick out the weak players from the wicked?
But anyway, using my own behavior as a better example of how I expect Town to behave - I don't 'stop' and only deal with TheWetSheep's concerns. I -do- address them. But I keep doing my job, when I do and afterwards as well. I am Scumhunting, I am trying to make the best choices I can. I'm trying to figure out who's the most likely Scum and I am trying to verify it as best I can.
You appear mostly reactive/passive - you were willing to make big claims (you could have verified your beliefs starting early D1 and been -sure- you should be as enthusiastic as you felt about what you could do and how to do it...) that you then could not back up; you made them to save your own skin, and you did absolutely minimal 'work' (Town has a job to do!) both D1 and D2.
Tiruin calls you 'Cheerie', and she thinks you're more likely on the side of Town then not - which is great, but. She has trouble backing that up with examples of your Townness too it seemed, just a 'feeling' mostly. I do respect Tiruin's feelings, but she can be wrong too.
So you ask me to tell you - "What could make [you] Townie?" Acting like it, from the start of play - that's the biggest thing that you could do to make me think you are Town. Even if you're -bad- at trying to achieve Town wincon, -try to achieve it-. Work. If you're bad at it, know that all honest players are going to be trying to understand if you're bad at it or actually Scum. And if a Scummy dude points at your imperfect Scumhunting and says 'Ha, that's Scummy!', that's great! The honest players will be able to ask about that. And keep asking. And that Scummy dude has a real chance of just falling apart.
See, there's many ways to Scumhunt... some are aggressive, some are alluring. Some are silly, some are scary, some are strange, and some are stranger than strange - some barely seem to make sense - but the thing is - they are doing something. Even if it's hard to understand. From you, Birdy, I just don't see your effort. You don't appear to be working towards a Town win - but you do appear interested and highly motivated to work towards 'Birdy survives'. It's fine to try not to die - but you appear to be mostly trying to not die. You're 'forgetting' (or just don't care - or maybe just don't HAVE) a Town wincon that you're supposed to achieve (even if you're NOT TOWN you're supposed to be looking like you're trying to achieve it).
Post by: webadict on November 18, 2013, 09:15:14 pm
Post by: Cheeetar on November 18, 2013, 09:40:10 pm
All who vote me: The main focus of this game right now is on how I am scum. However, there is an argument to be made for the flipside of the coin. What could make me Townie? I ask this not to escape the noose, but to build material. I want everyone to express doubts if they have them, and for those doubts to be made known.
What would make you townie in my eyes, or what behaviour have you displayed that I could read as town? For the first, an easy way would be an investigation of you. More genuine scumhunting? You have been making attempts, but the larger focus of your posts appears to be on yourself rather than on others. The latter... there's something about your apparent willingness to go to the hanging that struck me as incredibly town, although you've much overplayed the "I would die for you!" card and it rings hollow at the moment. I do admire your eventual upfrontness about your claim, but that's tarnished by the lengths gone to to drag the actual detail of it out of you (to reveal that it was not quite as powerful as you thought.)
An aside - Regardless of what happens, if you do turn out to be Kent Brockman (town/scum/third party) that's a superb role to think of bringing.
Post by: Tiruin on November 18, 2013, 10:03:49 pm
I'll be ending the Day now, thank you. Sorry for the wait. I've been megabusy.Aw krill. Just when I get into my breaktime..
[rest of post edited out]
Post by: birdy51 on November 18, 2013, 10:36:58 pm
However, I will reiterate, I am not looking to live, and I have raised cases and points. They've just simply been ignored in lieu of forcing me to be on the defensive every time I logged on, and I didn't pursue the few cases I did have. In my opinion, that is a deep failure on both sides.
Good luck guys.
Post by: webadict on November 19, 2013, 09:11:02 am
Post by: webadict on November 19, 2013, 09:43:19 am
Unless something has changed, Web doesn't tell you if you've been redirected. For example, a standard cop inspect result from him would read "Action successful. Target is [alignment]." Not "[Player] is [alignment]" but just the word Target.Usually, only blocks inform the target, and usually, targets are never verified.
WUBA: Can you verify this?
WUBA: How many kills does a standard protect work against? One or all?There are two types of protects: Protects that label how many protects they protect against, and protects that protect against 1 kill.
The three detectives searched endlessly for their clues, but some things just can't wait. Aidan got out of his seat and walked out of the theater. The light blinded him for a second, but he continued his journey.
Before he could make it to his final destination, he heard the usher shout toward him.
"Hey! Aren't you that one guy from that one show?!"
Aidan smiled. "I see my reputation precedes me. Yes, it is me-"
"You're James Bond, right?"
Aidan rolled his eyes and turned back to his journey.
"Wait, no, that's not right. You're definitely from something though."
"Look, I've really gotta go-"
"You're that guy in Superman, right?"
"What?"
"No, wait, you're from, like-"
"It's alright, I've-"
"Lord of the Rings?"
Aidan turned around and walked the rest of the way. Just as he was about to reach it...
"Sorry, bro," the usher yelled to him. "Bathroom's broke."
Vote Count
------------------------
birdy51 -
Cheeetar - Deathsword, Toaster, Shakerag, Imp, Nerjin, Nerjin,
Deathsword -
Imp - TheWetSheep,
Nerjin - The_Iqovian, The_Iqovian, Tiruin, Cheeetar,
notquitethere -
Shakerag -
The_Iqovian -
TheWetSheep -
Tiruin - notquitethere,
Toaster -
No Lynch -
Not Voting -
6 To Hammer. Day ends Friday 9 PM Central.
Cheeetar has been lynched!
Cheeetar was Petyr Baelish (lyncher)..
Quote
Cheeetar - Petyr Baelish
(1-Shot, Day) Master of Coin [target]: Prevent the target from being lynched during this Day.
(1-Shot, Night) Game of Thrones [target]: the target becomes King for the next Day. All other players have no votes.
Post by: webadict on November 19, 2013, 09:46:33 am
Quote
The_Iqovian - Exarch
(Auto/1-Shot, Day) Leader/Save [target]: You have one additional vote. Using this ability removes the extra vote, but blocks the lynch of whomever you choose for one Day.
(Auto/1-Shot, Night) Law/Lawbreaker [target]: You have one additional action at Night. Using this ability removes the extra action, but grants another player one additional action at Night.
(Night) Limited Authority [target1] [target2]: Sometimes, you just don’t have the ability to choose what you want to do. So, whatever the crown hands to you, you’ll have to hand out to others. You use a random action from this list:
Hide, Bus, Block, Randomize, Redirect, Protect, Motivate, Nothing, Kill, Inspect, Track, Watch
You are told what ability you used. No ability may be selected twice in a row.
The something is me modkilling him.
He was Town.
Post by: webadict on November 21, 2013, 09:00:12 pm
Post by: webadict on November 23, 2013, 04:25:23 pm
Post by: Imp on November 23, 2013, 04:29:11 pm
Post by: webadict on November 23, 2013, 07:51:23 pm
Imp's smile disappears and his eyes begin to bulge. Slowly, his insides begin to grow, but his skin, not willing to grow with him, begins to stretch and tear. A sharp claw rips out, greeted by more insidious laughter. The rest of the Prankster Demon appears, red, hunched, and horned. His beady eyes scan the room.
His voice rock the entire room. "AWWW YEAH, MOTHA FUCKIN' HUMANS! DIS GUN' BE FUN!" Just as he finishes his sentence, he smacks his forehead and begins laughing like a jackass. "HEHAHEHA LOOK AT THAT DUMB ONE IT ALREADY DEAD!" The Prankster Demon's wings unfold from its body and he flies over to Tiruin, picking up her corpse and playing with it.
"HEY HUMANS I IS A HUMAN TOO." The demon shakes the corpse around a bit, snapping off one of the arms. "OOPS I IS SO CLUMSY! HEHAHEHAHEHA! GEDDIT?!?!?!?!"
Everyone realizes this is going to get old really fast, as the demon's laugh irritates them further.
Imp has won the game!
Imp was an Imp (survivor).
Tiruin has been killed!
Tiruin was Jane Addams (mafia).
Vote Count
------------------------
birdy51 -
Deathsword -
Nerjin -
notquitethere -
Shakerag -
TheWetSheep -
Toaster -
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Deathsword, Toaster, Shakerag, Nerjin, notquitethere, TheWetSheep, birdy51,
4 To Hammer. Day ends Wednesday 9 PM Central..
Quote
Imp - Imp
(Auto) Avatar Of Pranks: When you win, you summon forth your master, the Prankster Demon. And naturally, like all demons, his idea of a prank is killing people. Because it’s HILARIOUS. At the end of each Day, after the lynch, the Prankster Demon randomly kills a player. You may also, during the Night, post about how hilarious anyone’s death was.
(Auto) Trickster: You receive a list of all players that targeted you. One of these players is randomly redirected to some other poor sap.
(1-Shot, Night) Disillusionment: All players are enchanted. Enchanted players randomly target players during this Night.
Quote
Tiruin - Jane Addams
(Mafiakill) Social Work [target]: You kill the target. Your action is disguised as a Protect. This action also goes through protects.
(Night) Hull House [target]: This action does not count toward your one action per Night limit. You protect the target from kills.
(1-Shot, Mafiakill) Public Health Awareness: All protects become kills. All other actions become protects. All kills go through protects. X-shots used by other players are not used up.
Post by: TheWetSheep on November 23, 2013, 08:48:08 pm
Post by: Toaster on November 23, 2013, 09:43:36 pm
Also Shakerag I would like to know this as well.
Post by: Nerjin on November 23, 2013, 10:19:03 pm
Anyways... I've got a fun fact for you guys: Turns out I was misreading my role PM, I get to steal a vote regardless of whether or not the person votes me. Anyways...
Shakerag bro-ham... What's the deal with this mafia result?
Post by: Tiruin on November 23, 2013, 10:41:31 pm
Please tell me that was a role claim. Please? I want someone's role to be "Floppy Fish"
Quote
Tiruin - Floppy Fish
(Auto) Floppy: When you die, people will note how sad your existence was and will have the urge to flop themselves! As a result of that, the next phase after the phase post-death is skipped.
(Mafiakill) I thought you were a Fish: You are actually a Piranha playing on Hollywood-based information and eat the person you target! Your action is untraceable.
(1-Shot, Night) Fish out of Water: You flop on land and bounce on the hard confines that keep you ever so close to your destined habitat. Any actions taken against you tonight automatically fail. This action is not counted towards your one action per Night limit. You will also look Town during the time it is used.
Edit: IMP IS FEMALE YA DARN HYUUMAN! D:<
Post by: Imp on November 23, 2013, 10:44:18 pm
Post by: webadict on November 23, 2013, 11:26:27 pm
*Tiruin flops.Your Floppy Fish role is close, but I wouldn't include having you look Town in the last action unless I specifically made inspects work through the action.Please tell me that was a role claim. Please? I want someone's role to be "Floppy Fish"QuoteTiruin - Floppy Fish
(Auto) Floppy: When you die, people will note how sad your existence was and will have the urge to flop themselves! As a result of that, the next phase after the phase post-death is skipped.
(Mafiakill) I thought you were a Fish: You are actually a Piranha playing on Hollywood-based information and eat the person you target! Your action is untraceable.
(1-Shot, Night) Fish out of Water: You flop on land and bounce on the hard confines that keep you ever so close to your destined habitat. Any actions taken against you tonight automatically fail. This action is not counted towards your one action per Night limit. You will also look Town during the time it is used.
Edit: IMP IS FEMALE YA DARN HYUUMAN! D:<
Also, I would have an action called Floppy Fish Style.
Post by: notquitethere on November 24, 2013, 08:29:21 am
So who've been the most useless today? Tiruin had a weird switch vote on TolyK yesterday and now she's just cruising but... apparently she's coming in with something soon?I guess I know why she didn't get back to me now!As of prior note, I've been making a LONG list of people-their tells from my PoV and interactions. Hopefully gonna be posted later today-am just really swamped by RL, but then I know I can do this and won't be asking for a replacement.I want to hear it Tiruin!
Sheep this is our best lead (and though I have to update it, Shake was one of the more scummier players by my vote analysis) but what with Imp's one-shot, I'm not sure how much we can rely on your read. I wonder if anyone found their targeting last night was a bit off? I'm a bit wary of hasty hammers especially given the fact that our lives are all under threat by demon now.
Post by: birdy51 on November 24, 2013, 10:00:21 pm
I have been dealt a stinging defeat at the hands of technology. My laptop has quit charging, which leaves me with absolutely no way to really play Mafia.
As such, I am going to have to request a Replacement Request... A permanant one this time around, and I won't be able to play at all. Sorry guys...
Post by: zombie urist on November 24, 2013, 10:28:08 pm
Post by: TheWetSheep on November 24, 2013, 10:29:27 pm
Now a more full claim:
Ability 1: Inspect. I inspected Imp N1, but got no PM that night. No idea why. Shakerag N2, mafia result.
Ability 2: Not gonna bother claiming yet, although I wouldn't be against claiming it if you want me to.
Ability 3: 1-shot Role-swap. Very useful right now.I could give my role to someone else, so that scum don't know who has the inspect. This also has the possibility of fingering another scum if their role looks like a scum role. I could also use it on somebody who's claimed their role to verify theirs and mine and hope for doctoring. Thoughts?
Post by: Nerjin on November 24, 2013, 10:36:41 pm
P.S: Don't do that. Either you're gonna claim the ability or you're not. You saying "I'll do it but only if asked" is kinda just adding an unnecesary step.
Post by: Toaster on November 24, 2013, 10:42:36 pm
P.S: Don't do that. Either you're gonna claim the ability or you're not. You saying "I'll do it but only if asked" is kinda just adding an unnecesary step.
I agree with Nerjin on this. Also, don't tell us if you swap to WIFOM the scum team.
Post by: webadict on November 24, 2013, 11:43:14 pm
I can replace in but I'll be out for a few days around thanksgiving.Alright. I'll get that to you soon.
Post by: notquitethere on November 25, 2013, 06:06:29 am
Post by: Teneb on November 25, 2013, 08:32:18 am
Ability 1: Inspect. I inspected Imp N1, but got no PM that night. No idea why. Shakerag N2, mafia result.Reading Imp's role-flip, it looks like you were redirected. The lack of a result probably means that someone has a power that protects them from inspects.
Post by: notquitethere on November 25, 2013, 08:43:05 am
Reading Imp's role-flip, it looks like you were redirected. The lack of a result probably means that someone has a power that protects them from inspects.Maybe... do you think your powers targeted correctly last night? I'm still trying to work it out but I think Imp's one-shot might have come into effect N2 instead.
Post by: Shakerag on November 25, 2013, 10:13:09 am
TWS:
Shakerag: Why did my inspect receive a mafia result on you?I have no idea, because I'm not scum. Either you're fakeclaiming or you got redirected. Also, webadict has included abilities that change other people's alignments. I know, because I had one in BYOR 9.
Anyway, very busy IRL at the moment, so I'll be back later for further posting.
webadict: Are non-sane inspects possible in this game?
Post by: webadict on November 25, 2013, 10:43:18 am
webadict: Are non-sane inspects possible in this game?No. There are no hidden aspects of an action or role that would interfere with an inspect.
Post by: notquitethere on November 25, 2013, 10:54:06 am
Post by: Shakerag on November 25, 2013, 12:38:57 pm
Ability 1: Inspect. I inspected Imp N1, but got no PM that night. No idea why.Wait, you got no PM night 1? Did you ask webadict as to why that might be?
webadict: How are you handling Thursday/Friday of this week? I'll be unable to check in those two days.
Also, can you explain how Imp won exactly? O_o
Post by: webadict on November 25, 2013, 01:01:31 pm
Also, Imp won by fulfilling her wincon.
Post by: notquitethere on November 25, 2013, 01:28:18 pm
Nobody wants to play over Thanksgiving.Yeah you guys enjoy eating with your family and being thankful and stuff. I'm sure I'll figure out something to do with the end of my week.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: zombie urist on November 25, 2013, 03:05:15 pm
I suppose that Shakerag and Nerjin are the last two scums. But Tiruin did vote Nerjin at one point I don't know how serious she meant it. Do I still have a vote?
Post by: Toaster on November 25, 2013, 04:18:21 pm
Something doesn't make sense. Cheetar targeted me N1 with a protect he doesn't have a protect so its probably Public Health Awareness. But Cheetar's only Naction was a kingmaker and he felt I was super scummy D1???
One, Cheeetar doesn't actually care if you're scummy or not- he just wants someone who thinks his target is scummy to be Kinged.
Two, he got a random ability. I received an ability last night and I don't know why.
Three, you are not telling the truth... but I don't really have any reason to suspect this as of right now.
Also, why Nerjin?
Post by: Teneb on November 25, 2013, 05:31:40 pm
I was blocked, so I have no idea if I was going to be redirected or not.Reading Imp's role-flip, it looks like you were redirected. The lack of a result probably means that someone has a power that protects them from inspects.Maybe... do you think your powers targeted correctly last night? I'm still trying to work it out but I think Imp's one-shot might have come into effect N2 instead.
Post by: Shakerag on November 25, 2013, 06:11:49 pm
I suppose that Shakerag and Nerjin are the last two scums. But Tiruin did vote Nerjin at one point I don't know how serious she meant it. Do I still have a vote?Yeah, I'm going to echo Toaster here and ask why you think Nerjin is scum, because he's the person who I feel has been most town this whole game.
Toaster:
I received an ability last night and I don't know why.I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess ... it was a randomize ability?
Nerjin:
Do you think it is significant that scum died last night but town did not?
NQT:
You've mentioned possibly being randomized in three different posts already. You think there's a "very high chance we all got randomized last night". Which would lead me to think you were expecting a certain result and did not get it. So how does it feel to be scum and NK off your scumbuddy?
Post by: webadict on November 25, 2013, 07:01:08 pm
"HMM MAYBE I KILL YOU" He tosses TheWetSheep over his shoulder where he smashes comically into a wall. "MAYBE NOT THOUGH TOO PUNY HEHAHEHAHEHA"
"I am NOT too puny!" TheWetSheep rebukes. The demon turns to look at him.
"OH? OKAY MAYBE I STILL KILL YOU THEN WE SEE HEHAHEHAHEHAHEHA"
TheWetSheep's face expresses his realized dumbness.
Vote Count
------------------------
Deathsword -
Nerjin -
notquitethere - Shakerag,
Shakerag - TheWetSheep, Toaster, Nerjin,
TheWetSheep -
Toaster -
zombie urist -
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Deathsword, notquitethere, zombie urist,
4 To Hammer. Day ends Wednesday 9 PM Central..
Post by: zombie urist on November 25, 2013, 07:08:03 pm
Nerjin's been unnecessarily angry for some reason which I think could be a facade and an appeal to emotion. His huge list of reads day 1 didn't really contain anything useful.
Why do you think he's the towniest?
Toaster:
2nd possibility isn't possible unless you can receive an ability and use it on the same night.
Hmm... it is strange that Nerjin, Shakerag, and Tiruin were all on the TolyK wagon.
Post by: TheWetSheep on November 25, 2013, 07:10:48 pm
Alright, I'll bite. What's the second ability?OK. Ability 2: I can steal a vote from the future, but it has consequences, and I don't know what they are yet. I haven't used this so far since I haven't really had the need for a second vote.
P.S: Don't do that. Either you're gonna claim the ability or you're not. You saying "I'll do it but only if asked" is kinda just adding an unnecesary step.
Sheep, did you get Shake's name attached to the inspect or did it just call up guilty after you targeted him? I think there's a very high chance we all got randomized last night and what with the demon, if we're unlucky then this could be LYLO (we lynch a town, demon kills a town, scum night kills a town and we've got two scum and two town alive), so we should be damn sure about what we're doing. Don't get me wrong, my analysis calls him a top pick, so it might still be the right thing to do, but I want us all to be sure about this. Also, it'd be an easy scum move to call cop in a game like this and we've already seen from other players (like Cheetar) that half-way convincing sounding fakeclaims aren't out of the question. You going to tell us your role name to make those abilities sound like they go together?Shakerag's name wasn't attached, no. It just said my target was mafia.
My role name is BYOR 13. Since I'm from the future, I can look up player's alignments from the almanac I printed out in the future. I can also steal a vote from the future. The role-swap doesn't tie in too well, but it's something to do with a BYOR switcheroo. I'm not claiming ability names since roles that use that information aren't out of the question.
TWS:Correct. I asked Web if I was missing a pm, and he said no, so I asked him if I would have gotten a pm if I was roleblocked. He said a standard roleblock would have notified me that I was roleblocked.Ability 1: Inspect. I inspected Imp N1, but got no PM that night. No idea why.Wait, you got no PM night 1? Did you ask webadict as to why that might be?
Something doesn't make sense. Cheetar targeted me N1 with a protect he doesn't have a protect so its probably Public Health Awareness.Actually, that makes sense, since Hapah was protected by Toaster and then died N1. Although why would she not use Hull House too?
Web:
Also, Imp won by fulfilling her wincon.Was this the standard Survivor wincon?
Post by: Nerjin on November 25, 2013, 07:31:18 pm
Nerjin:
Do you think it is significant that scum died last night but town did not?
I think I'd like to know why you're asking that question.
Shakerag:
Nerjin's been unnecessarily angry for some reason which I think could be a facade and an appeal to emotion. His huge list of reads day 1 didn't really contain anything useful.
Alright, how about my other huge lists of reads? Y'know, the thing that I do to show beyond a doubt that I'm paying attention to the game and all players and to give people something to work with if I die?
How about you point out actual reasons for me being scum
Hm... I'm not liking this deadly demon thing. Really puts the screws on town. But... Hm...
Post by: webadict on November 25, 2013, 10:20:47 pm
Web:Sources confirm that I'm not at liberty to discuss further on the win conditions of any other player. It should be noted, however, that Imp has won and is no longer in the game.Also, Imp won by fulfilling her wincon.Was this the standard Survivor wincon?
Post by: Nerjin on November 25, 2013, 10:22:15 pm
Post by: webadict on November 25, 2013, 10:38:29 pm
Psh, you just don't want mauled by the demon.Sources.
Post by: notquitethere on November 26, 2013, 11:32:15 am
NQT:You gotta mighty damn gall to be throwing around that kind of accusation, Shakes. Your scumhunting's been so nonexistent I bet you couldn't even give me two good reasons why you think Nerjin is most likely town.
You've mentioned possibly being randomized in three different posts already. You think there's a "very high chance we all got randomized last night". Which would lead me to think you were expecting a certain result and did not get it. So how does it feel to be scum and NK off your scumbuddy?
I think there's a high chance Imp didn't randomise everyone on N1 as players have been reporting power-failure, not incorrect targets. I've got reason to believe she used it N2. Are you claiming that you definitely hit the correct target for your night action? I don't think anyone did last night. You're not going to weasel out a role claim from me, if that was your aim. It's cute you think I killed Tiruin, maybe that's coming to mind so quickly because that's what you did.
Deathsword
To put it quite simply: I have the suspicion that you are a third party.What happened to your case on Birdy? Forgot what case you were trumping up in the long night?
Post by: Shakerag on November 26, 2013, 12:31:04 pm
ShakeragI am the gallest. It is me.NQT:You gotta mighty damn gall to be throwing around that kind of accusation, Shakes. Your scumhunting's been so nonexistent I bet you couldn't even give me two good reasons why you think Nerjin is most likely town.
You've mentioned possibly being randomized in three different posts already. You think there's a "very high chance we all got randomized last night". Which would lead me to think you were expecting a certain result and did not get it. So how does it feel to be scum and NK off your scumbuddy?
I call bullshit on your accusation that my scumhunting is practically nonexistent. Can you back that up, NQT(own)?
And I will give you two+ good reasons I think Nerjin is town:
1 - Very vehemently against ties. His reactions to them feel natural and not faked.
2 - He makes mistakes due to emotion. I expect scum to be much more meticulous about every word they say (especially if experienced).
3 - Extremely forthcoming with information.
4 - Doesn't seem to have voted with bullshit reasoning.
I think there's a high chance Imp didn't randomise everyone on N1 as players have been reporting power-failure, not incorrect targets. I've got reason to believe she used it N2. Are you claiming that you definitely hit the correct target for your night action? I don't think anyone did last night. You're not going to weasel out a role claim from me, if that was your aim. It's cute you think I killed Tiruin, maybe that's coming to mind so quickly because that's what you did.I'm not claiming anything yet, not until Toaster replies to me. And I'm further not trying to get a role claim from you, because I think you're possibly scum so you'd lie to me about your role anyway. Nice projection there at the end.
zombie urist:
Shakerag:I don't feel that Nerjin has been putting up a facade. It's too natural feeling for that. Like I said before, he's either town or really convincing scum. See my response to NQT above for more.
Nerjin's been unnecessarily angry for some reason which I think could be a facade and an appeal to emotion. His huge list of reads day 1 didn't really contain anything useful.
Why do you think he's the towniest?
Imp and Cheeetar voted for TolyK too; what's your point?
Nerjin:
Because I want to see how you'd answer the question. ಠ_ಠNerjin:
Do you think it is significant that scum died last night but town did not?
I think I'd like to know why you're asking that question.
Post by: Toaster on November 26, 2013, 02:25:43 pm
Toaster:I received an ability last night and I don't know why.I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess ... it was a randomize ability?
A golden star cookie for you.
Zombie Urist:
Toaster:
2nd possibility isn't possible unless you can receive an ability and use it on the same night.
Hmm... it is strange that Nerjin, Shakerag, and Tiruin were all on the TolyK wagon.
I suppose that is true.
I don't think it's strange at all. Why would it be strange? Do you suspect anyone besides Nerjin?
Nerjin:
Hm... I'm not liking this deadly demon thing. Really puts the screws on town. But... Hm...
It's basically an unblockable SK shooting off at random. It's just random more than anything else.
Post by: zombie urist on November 26, 2013, 05:35:45 pm
Deathsword and TWS are the scummiest after Nerjin. TWS is slightly less scummy because it is pretty audacious to fake-claim cop. But then again it could be game over if we mislynch and demon kills a town so it could be a super-brave move but I don't think so.
Alright, how about my other huge lists of reads? Y'know, the thing that I do to show beyond a doubt that I'm paying attention to the game and all players and to give people something to work with if I die?Just because you're paying attention doesn't mean you're town.
I don't feel that Nerjin has been putting up a facade. It's too natural feeling for that. Like I said before, he's either town or really convincing scum. See my response to NQT above for more.I suppose we'll just have to disagree on this then.
Post by: Shakerag on November 26, 2013, 06:31:16 pm
This still feels a bit odd to me.TWS:Correct. I asked Web if I was missing a pm, and he said no, so I asked him if I would have gotten a pm if I was roleblocked. He said a standard roleblock would have notified me that I was roleblocked.Ability 1: Inspect. I inspected Imp N1, but got no PM that night. No idea why.Wait, you got no PM night 1? Did you ask webadict as to why that might be?
webadict: Can you tell us what possible situations would result in an inspect getting no pm? If so, what?
Toaster:
Shakerag:That's interesting, because I didn't target you.Toaster:I received an ability last night and I don't know why.I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess ... it was a randomize ability?
A golden star cookie for you.
Post by: webadict on November 26, 2013, 07:30:24 pm
webadict: Can you tell us what possible situations would result in an inspect getting no pm? If so, what?Action interference from a role or action would be the only way.
Post by: Toaster on November 26, 2013, 09:14:44 pm
Okay, need a claim: Who got upgraded last night?
Post by: zombie urist on November 26, 2013, 10:51:10 pm
I didn't get any updates to my role.
TWS: Who do you think is scum after Shakerag.
Post by: notquitethere on November 27, 2013, 07:28:24 am
Well, there's been four posts in the last 24 hours. I guess things are a little slow because a lot of you have a holiday period about now?
I'm really concerned that we might be in LYLO. Chances are, the Demon is going to kill a townie tonight. If we mislynch and scum successfully get a kill off (let alone a vigilante-style misfire happening), we go into Day four with two scum and two town. Game over for town. So we gotta get things right today.
I'm tentatively suggesting a claim of all night targets (not a mass full-claim: we can still keep aces up our sleeve against the mafia etc.). We should only claim what action we used if it matters to working things out (so if you're a cop and you failed to learn anything then don't claim!) This way we've got a better chance of working out, given what we know of the flipped players, what happened each night.
What do people think?
Shakerag
And I will give you two+ good reasons I think Nerjin is town:Huh, well not sure about seriously we should take number 1 (Nerjin always plays like that), but at least it looks like you've been paying attention. And yeah, I looked back, and though you didn't do anything today until people got on your case (though I guess it was the weekend), you did seem to be capable of reads on Day 2.
1 - Very vehemently against ties. His reactions to them feel natural and not faked.
2 - He makes mistakes due to emotion. I expect scum to be much more meticulous about every word they say (especially if experienced).
3 - Extremely forthcoming with information.
4 - Doesn't seem to have voted with bullshit reasoning.
Okay, so now you're claiming you might have been randomized when you were handing out your randomiser. So... what exactly was your vote on me for? And what were you doing just handing out randomises to people? Randomize doesn't seem like a particularly pro-town power. I could see you handing it out to a scum-mate... who did you intend to give it to? Nerjin?
Post by: notquitethere on November 27, 2013, 07:34:46 am
Post by: TheWetSheep on November 27, 2013, 09:38:34 am
Were you thinking about this when you wrote the post, or was it justification after the fact? Because it really seems like the latter.Deathsword, why didn't you use the word scum when you addressed me?To put it quite simply: I have the suspicion that you are a third party. Looking at your interaction with others, I can't see much that would imply a scumbuddy. I strongly believe you are not town. I am not sure you are mafia.
TWS: Who do you think is scum after Shakerag.NQT and Deathsword. Partly process of elimination(I think Toaster, ZU and Nerjin are town), some gut feeling on NQT, and Deathsword hasn't really done much. Also:
NQT:Where's your vote analysis? Seems to me you usually use it as town but not as scum, and you haven't been using it much.
What do people think?Seems okay, but if people had valuable information, don't you think they would have claimed it already?
No gained powers for me last night.
Post by: notquitethere on November 27, 2013, 10:12:51 am
NQT:Where's your vote analysis? Seems to me you usually use it as town but not as scum, and you haven't been using it much.I did some Day 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4764916#msg4764916). I generally aim for one a day from Day 2 onwards. Today mostly people have been voting Shakerag because of your claim, but I'll do another round soon, don't worry! It just takes me a little while to go through all the posts. Also, for your information, the first game I did full-on spreadsheet tabulation of voting patterns was when I was playing scum in Mafia & Masons. That wasn't traditional mafia though: I've never played as trad-mafia with a scum chat on this subforum... so I'm not sure where you're pulling that assumption from.
No, people are generally quite cautious, and understandably so. But tell you what, I'll start by putting together everything everyone's already claimed and then we can see where we are then.What do people think?Seems okay, but if people had valuable information, don't you think they would have claimed it already?
Post by: Shakerag on November 27, 2013, 11:25:56 am
Post by: Toaster on November 27, 2013, 11:26:44 am
Post by: Teneb on November 27, 2013, 12:07:35 pm
DeathswordI have not forgotten. I am thinking about it, revising it, so to speak. Birdy was replaced and I currently going over my case and how he acted and comparing it to ZU's behaviour so far.To put it quite simply: I have the suspicion that you are a third party.What happened to your case on Birdy? Forgot what case you were trumping up in the long night?
NQT: In the quoted post above (which was trimmed, but just click the link if you want) you are pretty quick of accusing Shakerag of being scum and doing the NK. Yet you vote me without much accusation other than a question about my case on birdy. I understand that stopping pressuring a case the next day may be wierd, but you accuse Shakerag of doing a NK and then not vote him. Why is that?
Deathsword:I was thinking about it when I wrote the post where I accused birdy. It would have been simpler to just say he was mafia if I was looking for quick justification.Were you thinking about this when you wrote the post, or was it justification after the fact? Because it really seems like the latter.Deathsword, why didn't you use the word scum when you addressed me?To put it quite simply: I have the suspicion that you are a third party. Looking at your interaction with others, I can't see much that would imply a scumbuddy. I strongly believe you are not town. I am not sure you are mafia.
Also extend
Post by: notquitethere on November 27, 2013, 03:59:03 pm
NQT: In the quoted post above (which was trimmed, but just click the link if you want) you are pretty quick of accusing Shakerag of being scum and doing the NK. Yet you vote me without much accusation other than a question about my case on birdy. I understand that stopping pressuring a case the next day may be wierd, but you accuse Shakerag of doing a NK and then not vote him. Why is that?That's a legitimate question. I was concerned about Shakerag being accidentally hammered when we could potentially be at LYLO; I was just reflecting his nonsense case back at him; and I'm wary about us collectively focusing on one person and let everyone else slide by. That's how scum win. As for my case being stronger on Shake: I'm pretty sure we'll get the extend and so what with the holidays, that's a lot of downtime for me to do my proper analysis.
Extend
Post by: webadict on November 27, 2013, 05:57:13 pm
Post by: zombie urist on November 28, 2013, 12:24:57 am
Can someone do a claim summary sometime?
All I got was TWS inspected imp and shakerag.
Someone gave Toaster a randomize.
Toaster upgraded someone???
I know Cheetar protected me N1.
Post by: notquitethere on November 28, 2013, 08:07:42 am
Flips and False Claims
Spoiler: TolyK (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Hapah (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Cheetar (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: The Iqovian (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Imp (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Tiruin (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Nerjin (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Birdy/ZU (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Toaster (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: TheWetSheep (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Deathsword (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Shakerag (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: notquitethere (click to show/hide)
I'm confused why did Toaster get a randomize?Shakerag claims he gave one out, but didn't intend to target Toaster.
Deathsword, Shakerag, Nerjin, you going to answer Toaster's question? Did any of you get an upgrade last night?
Post by: Tiruin on November 28, 2013, 09:07:01 am
Edit (because haha :D): :I
I didn't see that as a joke >_<
Post by: notquitethere on November 28, 2013, 09:09:07 am
For the record, its obvious that the fish was a joke. :vFor the record, it's obvious I was including it there as a joke.
Post by: notquitethere on November 28, 2013, 04:26:23 pm
I know Cheetar protected me N1.He couldn't have deliberately: he only had one-shots which wouldn't have been used up if Tiruin had Public Health Announced on N1. The only current explanation is you're making things up (can't see why you would for this) or The Iqovian used one of his Limited Authority actions to make Cheetar act on Birdy, or Cheetar act on Imp and was randomly auto-redirected to Birdy. Either this action randomised as a protect, or Tiruin's PHA was in effect and the random action was anything other than a protect.
Post by: Toaster on November 28, 2013, 08:19:39 pm
WUBA:
QuoteTiruin - Jane Addams
(1-Shot, Mafiakill) Public Health Awareness: All protects become kills. All other actions become protects. All kills go through protects. X-shots used by other players are not used up.
If the effect of this ability changed a one shot from whatever it was to become a protect, would the one-shot still be used up?
Post by: Teneb on November 28, 2013, 08:21:54 pm
Deathsword, Shakerag, Nerjin, you going to answer Toaster's question? Did any of you get an upgrade last night?Only one thing happened last night, which I already said: I was blocked.
The following question may seem RVS-y, but this game is not really going anywhere and I need a read:
ZU: If you had replaced another person, and birdy not replaced out, would you have voted him (birdy) based on his play until his last post?
Post by: zombie urist on November 28, 2013, 09:09:29 pm
NQT's straying into IIOA hmm...
Shakerag: Why aren't you worried about being lynched?
Post by: Nerjin on November 29, 2013, 12:03:56 am
No idea its too late for me to answer that question w/o bias.
I disagree but whatever.
Sorry for lack of participation this day guys. Lots of stuff has happened.
Post by: webadict on November 29, 2013, 01:28:28 am
Hmmm.No. In that case, the one-shot would not be used up.
WUBA:QuoteTiruin - Jane Addams
(1-Shot, Mafiakill) Public Health Awareness: All protects become kills. All other actions become protects. All kills go through protects. X-shots used by other players are not used up.
If the effect of this ability changed a one shot from whatever it was to become a protect, would the one-shot still be used up?
Post by: notquitethere on November 29, 2013, 04:20:59 am
Nerjin, you going to answer Toaster's question? Did any of you get an upgrade last night?
ZU
NQT's straying into IIOA hmm...That's pretty funny ZU. You ask someone to post a recap of claims and then you passively attack the person who does just that for doing just that. Right now I'm waiting on Nerjin and Shakerag to answer Toaster's question, but in the meanwhile I'll be doing my usual vote analysis, probably in less than an hour's time.
Post by: Nerjin on November 29, 2013, 04:25:00 am
Post by: notquitethere on November 29, 2013, 04:35:58 am
I have not forgotten. I am thinking about it, revising it, so to speak. Birdy was replaced and I currently going over my case and how he acted and comparing it to ZU's behaviour so far.Still interested in seeing this. What do you think of ZU's response to your question?
Nerjin
I did pay attention. Checking all your claims (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4796097#msg4796097), I'm pretty sure you never said it was your only power, it's just the only one you claimed. If The Iqovian was allowed to double vote and had two night actions he could use at the same time, I'm pretty sure you have more than just a vote steal.
Post by: notquitethere on November 29, 2013, 06:57:11 am
This seemed to work in other games and it correctly pin-pointed Tiruin (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4764916#msg4764916), so here's my Day 3 aggregate vote breakdown.
# of players targeted minus RVS
2 - Toaster, Deathsword
3 - Sheep, Birdy
4 - Shakerag,
5 - NQT, Nerjin
Let's break that down day-by-day. (All vote counts below omit RVS votes as these aren't indicative of cases or suspicions.)
Spoiler: D1 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: D2 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: D3 (click to show/hide)
So, this method is pretty good at spotting good town (they tend to place high in suspicions), scum and newbish town (they have low suspicion counts). You can see that The Iqovian had much the same vote-profile as Tiruin, but that's to be expected given his low participation. It's pretty lousy as spotting 3rd party, who are often quite active when competent (like Imp and Cheetar). Given that Griff was also a third party, we've probably eliminated all of them from the game, but I wouldn't want to bet on it.
So what's the upshot? Well, I'll exclude myself as I'm the only one who takes this seriously and could have deliberately tried to game it. That leaves Nerjin with the towniest profile, followed by Shakerag, Sheep and Birdy/Zu, with Toaster and Deathsword coming up the rear. Toaster didn't vote at all on Day 1 and Deathsword (as well as Birdy/ZU) haven't voted at all today despite the Day almost ending on Wednesday.
Nerjin, You say you don't have any night abilities. It's questionable but not impossible. I guess you've got some autos and a one-shot you don't want to talk about. By my analysis you're the least suspicious, so I'm unvoting.
Deathsword, ZU— the day almost ended and you didn't care to cast a vote. If this was D1 we might let it slide, but this is potentially LYLO. What gives?
Toaster— the only person who hasn't claimed having an upgrade is Shakerag. Could Imp or Tiruin have got it? what were you doing upgrading random strangers that could be scum? This only really makes sense if you knew the alignment of who you were targeting. Also, you've consistently had the lowest suspicion-count in the game, not voting day 1, only voting Cheetar on day 2, and now just following Sheep's vote today. I know you explained about Day 1: care to explain the rest?
Sheep Do you have a case on Shakerag now given the strong possibility that your investigation was made useless by Imp's one-shot? Are you sticking to it out of inertia? I note that you've thus far only formed one case per day on a person.
Shakerag— I know we probably won't see you until Monday, but when you appear I would like a response to this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4793683#msg4793683). You say there hasn't been much discussion and yet when you post you don't discuss.
Post by: Teneb on November 29, 2013, 09:10:06 am
No idea its too late for me to answer that question w/o bias.Why is it too late, ZU? Can't you answer, with or without bias? This seems a lazy way to say "I don't want to answer that". If you think NQT is straying into IIOA (could somone actually tell me what the acronym stands for, I can't remember), why are you doing nothing but pointing it out?
NQT's straying into IIOA hmm...
Shakerag: Why aren't you worried about being lynched?
Deathsword, ZU— the day almost ended and you didn't care to cast a vote. If this was D1 we might let it slide, but this is potentially LYLO. What gives?I didn't want to throw my vote around and accidentaly cause a hammer, especially if I wasn't convinced whomever I was voting is scum. This just changed, of course.
Post by: zombie urist on November 29, 2013, 12:58:26 pm
NQT: I didn't bother because I'm getting smooth-talked so I have no vote anyways.
Post by: notquitethere on November 29, 2013, 01:10:27 pm
NQT: I didn't bother because I'm getting smooth-talked so I have no vote anyways.Oh... in that case...
Nerjin, why are specifically still stealing ZU's vote but you're not voting them? You're implying they're scummy enough to warrant no vote but not trying to get them lynched. How does that make sense?
Post by: Nerjin on November 29, 2013, 01:18:37 pm
Nerjin, why are specifically still stealing ZU's vote but you're not voting them? You're implying they're scummy enough to warrant no vote but not trying to get them lynched. How does that make sense?
... I'm not using Smooth-Talk right now. Unvote
ZU why are you lying?
Post by: Toaster on November 29, 2013, 04:28:53 pm
Hmmm.No. In that case, the one-shot would not be used up.
WUBA:QuoteTiruin - Jane Addams
(1-Shot, Mafiakill) Public Health Awareness: All protects become kills. All other actions become protects. All kills go through protects. X-shots used by other players are not used up.
If the effect of this ability changed a one shot from whatever it was to become a protect, would the one-shot still be used up?
Okay. This means Cheeetar would have been able to back up up his King claim, if we assume he was trying to king Birdy N1.
Now.
Nerjin:
I've already told you guys the only ability I have that targets is "Smooth Talk". Pay attention.
This doesn't actually answer the question. Did any of your abilities get upgraded?
NQT:
Toaster— the only person who hasn't claimed having an upgrade is Shakerag. Could Imp or Tiruin have got it? what were you doing upgrading random strangers that could be scum? This only really makes sense if you knew the alignment of who you were targeting. Also, you've consistently had the lowest suspicion-count in the game, not voting day 1, only voting Cheetar on day 2, and now just following Sheep's vote today. I know you explained about Day 1: care to explain the rest?
Not really. D2 Cheeetar was my primary suspect all day, and today has been driven by both the cop claim and the fear of randomization. Unless I have a good reason to do so or changing information, I'm not going to move my vote around just to look good in your vote count.
Post by: Teneb on November 29, 2013, 04:31:27 pm
Because I already know my role infoAnd how does this stop you from judging a player by his actions? I asked you if you would vote birdy based solely on how he acted, regardless of what his aligment or role was. You seem incapable of answering this question.
Post by: zombie urist on November 29, 2013, 05:22:13 pm
... I'm not using Smooth-Talk right now. UnvoteI didn't lie, I just didn't know that.
ZU why are you lying?
In that case I'll vote Shakerag because of the inspect result and because of all the interactions Tiruin had with the remaining players I think they were buddies.
Post by: Nerjin on November 29, 2013, 07:19:39 pm
... I'm not using Smooth-Talk right now. UnvoteI didn't lie, I just didn't know that.
ZU why are you lying?
Bull frickin' Horse Shit! Every time I've used my ability Birdy has confirmed that he got a Role-pm confirming it. You were making things up to avoid having to put your vote onto someone! Then when that fell through you went and voted the easiest target.
Post by: zombie urist on November 29, 2013, 07:41:48 pm
Post by: Toaster on November 29, 2013, 10:16:45 pm
Post by: Teneb on November 30, 2013, 08:25:12 am
I am incapable of answering the question because I know the basis for his actions so I can't judge his actions on their own.I bolded part of your post. Would you care to give us some quotes that indicate that?... I'm not using Smooth-Talk right now. UnvoteI didn't lie, I just didn't know that.
ZU why are you lying?
In that case I'll vote Shakerag because of the inspect result and because of all the interactions Tiruin had with the remaining players I think they were buddies.
Post by: zombie urist on December 01, 2013, 08:46:54 pm
From this NQT is probably not scum. He was also voting Tiruin earlier.
Nerjin is probably not scum. But I don't know why he's exceptionally angry. Maybe 3rd party? That would be 3 third party which is kinda high.
Voted and unvoted DS. DS's play is similar to other games he's been town and pretty lurky, so he's probably town. Least sure of DS
Shakerag and Tiruin did a weird mutual prod below. Which looks to me like they're talking to each other just to interact but with no substance, which is why I think Shakerag is scum.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4772124;topicseen#msg4772124
Toaster is pretty town. I don't think he'd lie about the 2-shot protect. Scum looks like they got redirected or randomized so Toaster being alive still isn't too worrisome.
TWS is town or super brave scum to claim cop.
BTW Webadict PM'd me and told me I did in fact lose my vote the previous days.
Post by: notquitethere on December 02, 2013, 06:32:13 am
In that case I'll vote Shakerag because of the inspect result and because of all the interactions Tiruin had with the remaining players I think they were buddies.And not just to break the tie in your favour...? Seems quite convenient, though I can kind of see what you're saying with the possible prodding between him Shakerag and Tiruin. Hmm. I'll see if I can dig anything up in the interactions...
Toaster
Not really. D2 Cheeetar was my primary suspect all day, and today has been driven by both the cop claim and the fear of randomization. Unless I have a good reason to do so or changing information, I'm not going to move my vote around just to look good in your vote count.That's about what I wanted to hear. I'm a little concerned that Nerjin isn't answering you questions but formally he appears the most town to me. Still, I'd like to know if your upgrade would shown up in someone's flipped role.
Sure hope Sheep and Shakerag get to post again before the day's end.
Post by: Shakerag on December 02, 2013, 10:39:04 am
Post by: Shakerag on December 02, 2013, 11:38:42 am
Just to explicitly state it, no I didn't get upgraded last night.
NQT:
Okay, so now you're claiming you might have been randomized when you were handing out your randomiser. So... what exactly was your vote on me for? And what were you doing just handing out randomises to people? Randomize doesn't seem like a particularly pro-town power. I could see you handing it out to a scum-mate... who did you intend to give it to? Nerjin?Yes, I targeted Nerjin because I felt (and still do) that he's the most likely to be town. Somehow Toaster got the ability.
The_Iqovian had a randomize ability (amongst others) and he was town, for the record.
My ability gives out a different ability each night. Ho ho ho, I'm (like) Santa.
Clearly I'm voting you because you're scum. Didn't you catch that part?
zombie urist:
Shakerag: Why aren't you worried about being lynched?Because I'd rather worry about finding scum instead? And I figured that everyone would just figure this out on their own, but I'll state it plainly for you: It seems pretty obvious by now that there was a high amount of randomization of targets last night. It is even very possible that everyone got randomized. Therefore the chances that TWS got randomized are pretty high. Do you see where I'm going with this?
More later. Need to catch up from the long weekend at work too.
Post by: notquitethere on December 02, 2013, 12:05:02 pm
Yes, I targeted Nerjin because I felt (and still do) that he's the most likely to be town. Somehow Toaster got the ability.That's true, but it was on among a suite of powers. But yeah, looking at it, all the flipped town have powers that (if used on town) could be somewhat disruptive to our chance of winning.
The_Iqovian had a randomize ability (amongst others) and he was town, for the record.
My ability gives out a different ability each night. Ho ho ho, I'm (like) Santa.Well, Toaster appears to confirm that you did in fact give out a gift last night. What happened to your gift giving on N1?
Clearly I'm voting you because you're scum. Didn't you catch that part?Clearly. Still... I don't quite see what your case is. You voted me when I suggested we'd all been randomised... but now you've come across to the same point of view? I don't think I'm the person you're looking for.
Look forward to seeing the rest of your catching up.
Post by: zombie urist on December 02, 2013, 12:53:45 pm
Actually Iqovian can hide up to two people or something so this might have happened.
Hrmrmrmmm
Post by: Toaster on December 02, 2013, 03:02:51 pm
extendApparently both NQT and TWS tried something N1 and both got no results back. This is actually pretty troublesome because so far we haven't seen any roles that can do this.
Actually Iqovian can hide up to two people or something so this might have happened.
Hrmrmrmmm
Are you paying attention? Did you forget this?
(1-Shot, Mafiakill) Public Health Awareness: All protects become kills. All other actions become protects. All kills go through protects. X-shots used by other players are not used up.
WUBA: Can we get a prod on Nerjin?
Post by: TheWetSheep on December 02, 2013, 04:00:47 pm
NQT: Your D2 vote analysis:
So who've been the most useless today? Tiruin had a weird switch vote on TolyK yesterday and now she's just cruising but... apparently she's coming in with something soon?Why was the weird switch scummy? Why, after your vote analysis, was the best thing you could come up with a vote on a lurker who had explained why she was lurking and had promised content? Looks like trying to distance yourself from your scumpartner with a vote that could easily be rescinded when she delivered the content.As of prior note, I've been making a LONG list of people-their tells from my PoV and interactions. Hopefully gonna be posted later today-am just really swamped by RL, but then I know I can do this and won't be asking for a replacement.I want to hear it Tiruin!
It also doesn't make sense with this:
Quote
Iqovian (who I won't vote as he's going to be modkilled) and Deathsword have been the most tunnelly: they're the only players to have the same D1 vote as Day 2 vote without ever voting anyone else. So, Deathsword ol' buddy, explain to me why Cheetar is scummier than all other players. What do you think of his latest Toaster vote?You imply you would vote Iqovian if he wasn't going to be modkilled. If Deathsword had been equally tunnelly, why didn't you vote him?
In the same post that you voted her, you give evidence for Tiruin's innocence:
Why'd you contradict yourself?A Theory: If Birdy is town, Cheeetar and Tiruin are probably town, since why would they be so fussed about which town player they lynched?Yeah that might have water, though of course a strong scum player might do that sort of thing to appear town. Cheetar has been very engaged so if he's scum then he's competent enough to pull of that sort of thing. Tiruin's hardly been here.
Also, out of your five votes in D2, four were on lurkers with no other reasoning for voting. The other one was at the beginning of the day, didn't have much force behind it, and between it and when you unvoted there were only 10 posts. In fact, you didn't pursue a single case all day 2. Why have you been activelurking?
DS:
Birdy, I have no idea why I was stupid enough to unvote you in D1. Your "premonition" about Toaster, you dancing around TWS's questions, claiming to have the best inspect EVAR right before being lynched, then comes D2 and oops, turns out it was not the best inspect EVAR. In D2 you once again faced the lynch, and once again claimed. Imp made quite a strong case against you, which you then dismiss as a "plot". It looks to me that you are just trying to stay alive, no matter what. You are using a lot of appeals to emotion, calling yourself an idiot to deflect attention. I don't like what you are doing, it reeks of desperation.Every point in this paragraph has been made by other people before.
Post by: Shakerag on December 02, 2013, 05:07:39 pm
Despite a bit of a gut feeling, I can't shake a scumtell out of NQT, so I'm unvoting for that and to (as far as I can tell) break a tie.
NQT:
Well, Toaster appears to confirm that you did in fact give out a gift last night. What happened to your gift giving on N1?It would appear to have been eaten by Tiruin's ability. There seems to be pretty good evidence she used it N1.
TWS: Did you say why you picked Imp for your target N1?
zombie urist: I responded to Tiruin because she asked me a question, and I saw something that looked inconsistent. Which is amusing in hindsight now, because Cheeetar *was* lying. I didn't talk with Tiruin much because I had other irons in the fire.
Why do you think Toaster wouldn't lie about a 2-shot protect?
If you're the "least sure" about Deathsword, why aren't you doing anything about that?
Post by: zombie urist on December 02, 2013, 05:58:21 pm
Are you paying attention? Did you forget this?I totally did. :-[ Maybe I shouldn't play in the morning.
zombie urist: I responded to Tiruin because she asked me a question, and I saw something that looked inconsistent. Which is amusing in hindsight now, because Cheeetar *was* lying. I didn't talk with Tiruin much because I had other irons in the fire.The nature of the question asked is iffy and it makes me suspicious. Lying about a protect on D1 is unnecessary and brings a lot of attention which is something scum wouldn't do. I'm choosing to follow my stronger reads today since we're basically at lylo.
Why do you think Toaster wouldn't lie about a 2-shot protect?
If you're the "least sure" about Deathsword, why aren't you doing anything about that?
NQT: What initially lead you to believe we all got randomized?
Toaster: Why has your scumhunting been lacking since you started waiting for your answer?
You guys do realize day is scheduled to end today right. Extend plz.
Post by: Teneb on December 02, 2013, 06:01:25 pm
DS:So? Some had been made by me before focusing on Cheeetar. Those were my reasons for finding birdy scummy. I believe that the part I bolded wasn't mentioned by others previous to that post.Birdy, I have no idea why I was stupid enough to unvote you in D1. Your "premonition" about Toaster, you dancing around TWS's questions, claiming to have the best inspect EVAR right before being lynched, then comes D2 and oops, turns out it was not the best inspect EVAR. In D2 you once again faced the lynch, and once again claimed. Imp made quite a strong case against you, which you then dismiss as a "plot". It looks to me that you are just trying to stay alive, no matter what. You are using a lot of appeals to emotion, calling yourself an idiot to deflect attention. I don't like what you are doing, it reeks of desperation.Every point in this paragraph has been made by other people before.
Post by: notquitethere on December 02, 2013, 06:34:48 pm
Why was the weird switch scummy? Why, after your vote analysis, was the best thing you could come up with a vote on a lurker who had explained why she was lurking and had promised content? Looks like trying to distance yourself from your scumpartner with a vote that could easily be rescinded when she delivered the content.I think you misunderstand the method of my analysis. Tiruin came up the scummiest by the same metric that found the entire original scum team in the last Supernatural and correctly spotted the most town players in Witches. I've learned to trust it as a good way of spotting scum and it worked for me once again against Tiruin. Anyone else could have done the same analysis and came up with the same result, my methods aren't a secret. Tiruin's switch to TolyK was remarked upon at the time for being particularly weak (I'd find a quote but I'm writing this on my phone right now. If we're both alive by the next time I get to post I'll got into more detail).
It also doesn't make sense with this:I was borderline on voting Deathsword but Tiruin was still scummier by her extremely low level of suspicions, and I take that to be a firmer tell than tunneling when a player has done a few other things in the game beyond tunneling.QuoteIqovian (who I won't vote as he's going to be modkilled) and Deathsword have been the most tunnelly: they're the only players to have the same D1 vote as Day 2 vote without ever voting anyone else. So, Deathsword ol' buddy, explain to me why Cheetar is scummier than all other players. What do you think of his latest Toaster vote?You imply you would vote Iqovian if he wasn't going to be modkilled. If Deathsword had been equally tunnelly, why didn't you vote him?
In the same post that you voted her, you give evidence for Tiruin's innocence:I can see why you'd think there's a contradiction here, but really it was a case of me not being clear enough about what I was implying. I didn't think both Cheetar and Tiruin were both on the same team, their levels of engagedness differed so much. I didn't mean to suggest that Tiruin couldn't be scum because she couldn't have been deliberately buddying Birdy to appear town because she was inactive, but I can see how I could have worded things better now. Scum goodwording town is often pretty hard for them to avoid because they -know- the townsperson is innocent.Why'd you contradict yourself?A Theory: If Birdy is town, Cheeetar and Tiruin are probably town, since why would they be so fussed about which town player they lynched?Yeah that might have water, though of course a strong scum player might do that sort of thing to appear town. Cheetar has been very engaged so if he's scum then he's competent enough to pull of that sort of thing. Tiruin's hardly been here.
Also, out of your five votes in D2, four were on lurkers with no other reasoning for voting. The other one was at the beginning of the day, didn't have much force behind it, and between it and when you unvoted there were only 10 posts. In fact, you didn't pursue a single case all day 2. Why have you been activelurking?Early on Day 2 I used my vote proactively to pressure lurkers into posting more. Then I did my usual analysis and found Tiruin the most guilty so I put my vote on her. She never delivered on content and died in the night before I could chase her up further. (The deadline for this game arrives about 3AM my time.) Today, where there's been more substantial things to discuss, I've been very active and have continued my analysis as before. If you find this playstyle suspicious then I hate to say it but you'll always find me suspicious in every game I play.
Toaster
Have you found out whether upgrades would show in flips?
ZU to do with my N2 action. I didn't learn what I thought I was going to learn and the info on Imp's flip was the best explanation.
Post by: webadict on December 02, 2013, 06:41:31 pm
Post by: webadict on December 02, 2013, 06:46:22 pm
------------------------
Deathsword -
Nerjin - Toaster,
notquitethere - TheWetSheep,
Shakerag - zombie urist,
TheWetSheep -
Toaster - notquitethere,
zombie urist - Deathsword, Nerjin,
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Shakerag,
4 To Hammer. Day ends Tuesday 8 AM Central..
Post by: Nerjin on December 02, 2013, 06:52:12 pm
WUBA: Can we get a prod on Nerjin?
Sorry folks, I've been really busy. My case on Birdy still stands even though ZU has taken over. His incompetence has done nothing to convince me other-wise. I don't have a lot of time so I'm just gonna be honest: I'm going to Smooth Talk ZU here in a moment.
Edit: Hm... I wonder if this message I just got was a prod. Hm... Anyways...
zombie urist for reasons I've detailed on every single day thus far. Sorry I don't have more time.
Post by: webadict on December 02, 2013, 08:56:01 pm
------------------------
Deathsword -
Nerjin - Toaster,
notquitethere - TheWetSheep,
Shakerag -
TheWetSheep -
Toaster - notquitethere,
zombie urist - Deathsword, Nerjin,
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Shakerag,
4 To Hammer. Day ends Tuesday 8 AM Central..
Post by: Nerjin on December 02, 2013, 09:11:31 pm
Post by: Toaster on December 02, 2013, 09:16:02 pm
Nerjin:
This doesn't actually answer the question. Did any of your abilities get upgraded?
Cough cough cough
NQT:
Toaster
Have you found out whether upgrades would show in flips?
Yes, it would.
Post by: Nerjin on December 02, 2013, 09:18:41 pm
Nerjin:This doesn't actually answer the question. Did any of your abilities get upgraded?
Cough cough cough
Y'know, I keep thinking I answered that. No, I did not gain any new powers.
Post by: Toaster on December 02, 2013, 09:24:18 pm
Unvote
Vote Shakerag. My gut still points at him, despite the likelihood there was a mass randomization last night, but I'll have to do some digging.
Post by: notquitethere on December 03, 2013, 10:53:59 am
So... we can be sure that Imp and Tiruin didn't get the upgrade, or would it not be obvious (i.e. is there a [UPGRADED] tag?). Because elsewise we're looking at someone lying about not receiving it, or it not working on someone that could have been upgraded.ToasterYes, it would.
Have you found out whether upgrades would show in flips?
Sheep
As we got extended a little, here's the quotes I promised. First, Imp says this:
If any two players switch from Birdy to TolyK and -no one else- votes for Birdy - then TolyK will be the lynch.
Then in the very next post, with 26 minutes left (apparently) and after not voting all day Tiruin does this:
TolyK. I can't (..as in, didn't check deeply back) to wonder on why the whole fight drills down to one or the other. My notes on the occurrence in itself would state that Nerjin is either sure birdy should die-wherein said context would lie on the best probably idea: 'He's scum and I'm SURE of it' or Nerjin is a lyncher with a double vote.
GIVEN birdy's last words (presumably) I don't detect any sort of plea or appeal to emotions. I detect sincerity along his side on the 'if I die...' prospect on aiding town. Sure, I don't know if he's town or not, but his plea is. . .too innocent(?) to sound like either scum/third-party giving up and all that other stuff on veiled suspicion and such.
Nerjin's smooth talking. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4746232#msg4746232) Ok this is when he said his point and ability. Probably a fake-name claim because having a bluff skill that high would..convince the target to vote himself in remorse? Uh, ok. Most probably a fake-name given the context of smooth talking (him losing a vote, nerjin GAINING a vote? That ISN'T smooth-talking.)
birdy's claim. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4746421#msg4746421) Interesting. A claim on an inspect, with a newscaster as a premise. Probably an appeal to efficiency given how inspects are mostly always a convincing tool (yeah I'm biased because of that ONE GAME Witches Coven). While the context of inspects differ there from here, the difference is he withheld claiming it in exacts. Why would someone do this in lieu of death? Because its real, is the best logical answer to be had.
...And as I'm reading back I find that Nerjin's voting Birdy because he wants to avoid a tie, (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4745530#msg4745530) of all primary reasons. Is that you suspect him, a lesser priority for you to note that Nerjin? Blargh this. I'm typing my thoughts out at 60wpm.
But the scumminess remains. He's your second scum pick. What about REINFORCING THE CASE ON YOUR FIRST?! That came off to me as an excuse given some kind of veiled motive there. It's a strong move, but...confusing given how you explained it. What it seems to me: Double voter uses power to hit secondary target instead of getting primary suspect on the line. Reason: Wasting time(?). How is that possible when people can ask for extends or debate about the matter?
If so, then that's a really risky move as scum to do as it..levels quite a lot of suspicion on you. Something else is there with you Nerjin, but its vague as far as I can see.
So, she votes TolyK solely to switch the vote from Birdy, with no supporting reasons for why it should be TolyK that should die. It looks like she was trying to prevent Birdy from hanging.
Uh, I think the day might have officially ended now?
Post by: webadict on December 03, 2013, 11:45:54 am
Deathsword thinks for a little bit. "Yeah," he replies. "Me neither."
"Let's kill him!"
As Deathsword and Nerjin tkae turns pummeling the poor defenseless zombie urist, a newspaper flies in through a nearby window, shattering it to pieces. The Prankster Demon laughs at the mayhem and destruction. (HEHAHEHAHEHAHEHAHEHA, just in case you forgot.)
notquitethere picks it up. "Anchorman beaten to bloody pulp? Mob violence does in another? How did they even print this if it just happened?" Shakerag shrugs.
TheWetSheep cowers a bit and starts pointing. Everyone turns to see the Prankster Demon's wings stretching further and further, gaining strength with the end of the Day. (He's still doing that stupid laugh. HAHEHAHEHAHEHAHEHAHEHA, in case you forgot.)
"NOW ME KILL HUMANS! NOW ALL SOULS MINE." His eyes narrow in on Nerjin. "ME KILL YOU FIRST."
The Prankster Demon swoops in on Nerjin, grabbing his arm before he can react. The demon flies up into the sky while Nerjin reaches into his jacket and pulls out a gun, firing several shots into the demon's stomach, arm, and a lucky shot into his throat. The demon cries out in pain, dropping Nerjin, but Nerjin quickly turns the tables and grabs onto the demon's arm now!
"THIS NOT RIGHT! THIS NOT FUNNY!"
Nerjin climbs up the demon's arm and hops onto his back. "Funny? Fuck you, clown." Nerjin fires a few more bullets into the back of the demon's head as the demon cries out in more pain, and begins rapidly accelerating to the ground.
"ME... HAVE LAST... LAUGH. HAHEHA--" And the demon smashed into the ground.
Toaster rushes over to the now dead demon in a pile of rubble. He quickly spots Nerjin's arm sticking out of the rubble. The rest of the group tries to remove the rocks, and after a few seconds of removal, Nerjin pulls himself from the rubble... Nowhere near his arm.
"Ha. He. Ha." And then it was Night.
Vote Count
------------------------
Deathsword -
Nerjin -
notquitethere - TheWetSheep,
Shakerag - Toaster,
TheWetSheep -
Toaster - notquitethere,
zombie urist - Deathsword, Nerjin,
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Shakerag,
4 To Hammer. Day ends Tuesday 8 AM Central.
zombie urist has been lynched!
zombie urist was the TVTrope: Kent Brockman News (town).
Nerjin has been killed!
Nerjin has come back to life!
The Prankster Demon has been killed!
The Prankster Demon was a Prankster Demon (outsider).
Quote
birdy51zombie urist - TVTropes: Kent Brockman News
(Auto) This Just In: Each Night, you learn either what actions were used against you or who performed an action against you.
(Night) Rebroadcast: You may learn either the actions or players that targeted you last Night, instead of This Just In.
(Night) Rerun [target]: The target performs the same action on the same target as they performed the Night before instead of their normal action.
Post by: Imp on December 03, 2013, 01:46:24 pm
Silly rook who left his nook and left his wits at home,
Had a job and had to win, had to have someone's neck length-in.
Could have saved himself with words short and sheer, could have said 'I'm Master here,
Have some coin and stop this bother, my head's not for the noose - go pick another.'
But he didn't, so his body had to sway, supported by neck until the rope did fray.
Oh! But so! Imp was wont to say. Isn't there another to kill this day?
There was indeed, a bird flown free. Village Idiot Escapes Again we see.
News at nine, ten, eleven and twelves! News and more news, the papers fly from shelves!
What good's a story, what good's a joke, without someone with it to poke?
The funniest thing about this clears, laughter so hard it brings me to tears
We could have stopped - we were already done; My chance to win was already begun;
But I thought I needed still to wait, my eagerness locked in hyped-up state.
For once that hammered vote came down, that it was over should have abound
And noticed, would have eased my work, nothing left but Cheeetar's body to jerk
And toss and twist until life fled. But Web wasn't here to say instead,
"I don't think y'all realize you've been talking for 40 some posts after hammer..."
What's done is done, and what's to come, it comes. Haha, hehe, more words of glee!
There's death around, and death shall be found, over under everywhere
Death for everyone, with or without care. But these words I am glad to share:
Cheeetar's death was not in vain, but in great FUN that is so plain.
Post by: Imp on December 03, 2013, 02:08:58 pm
See there I was.
And it was day. I thought, ooh, they're gonna get me. See right through me. I gotta -do- something! So I did it.
Then it was night. And I thought, they're gonna get me. They see right through me! I gotta -do- something. So I did it.
Then it was day again. The FINAL day! And I thought, they're gonna get me. See right through me. I gotta -do- something! So I did it.
Then it was night again. The FINAL night! And I thought, they're gonna get me. They see right through me! I gotta -do- something. So I did it.
And then it... wasn't day. Or night. And it tickled. Did you see right through me? I saw right through me. I saw out my head and then I saw out my chest and I saw out my legs as they swelled and popped and then I couldn't see or breath or anything.
But that's alright. I wasn't supposed to. Not anymore. And it tickled, it tickled so much and just right when I died.
Will Master tickle you, when you die? I bet it tickles, being tickled by the Master.
Post by: Imp on December 03, 2013, 02:16:39 pm
My... Master is dead? So it is said.
My Master... can die? It seems not a lie.
My Master is... gone? Jokes must go on.
So I am free?... Not that I can see.
But witness the power, the might, the right
The glory in savagery, fun found by strength with a gun
Most hilarious is death, laughing to end of breath
And what did Nerjin do? Why, what he had right to do.
So even death can die, does that mean I should cry?
I did as my Master bade and now Master's grave is laid.
But all deaths are funny! Each tickles the tummy!
And death that wasn't expected, the funniest of all is the surprise spray of red.
Laugh with me, Master! Laugh once again faster!
Did it tickle, Master? You who taught that death isn't disaster?
Nerjin, what fine fancy tricks you have up your sleeve -
I honestly never though you had it in you to deceive!
Post by: Imp on December 03, 2013, 02:20:02 pm
X marks the spot? No! X marks the arch!
The_Iquovian rended just so he was ended
No more may he play, just a grave where he lay
Unmarked and forgotten, the grave where he's rotten.
Why did he leave us? Why go away?
He would have been useful, his skills they could save
He could have stopped it, he could have cared
Not this time lynch, this one is spared.
Or he could have chosen one night in the dark
You have my trust, my power, my art
You go forth greatly, you go and act
Go do something good, don't just react.
And always, forever, until it ran out
He could have made -someone- do -something- and shout
With wonder the next day, surprise or dismay -
I was forced to do that, what happened I pray?
But noooo... he did not, he said take me away
Replace me, don't chase me, I want out this same day.
Thus death did he beckon, thus death did he call
So death answered thusly and smothered his drawl.
Post by: Imp on December 03, 2013, 02:32:50 pm
Kingmaker, Kingmaker, off with his head
Sings me this song now that he is so dead
Ned Stark he claimed, his Game rots away
Sweetly so softly the mourners sashay.
Petyr oh Petyr, stretched by the noose
His head nearly off, his neck gone so loose.
No need for tears though, lets hold us a wake
Sing sweet your songs that the dead they may wake.
Baelish, Lord Baelish, now taken away
No coins left to throw, no votes may he say.
Lyncher? What lyncher? He went to hang
Thus ending this song that now I have sang.
Post by: Imp on December 03, 2013, 02:40:14 pm
Jane Addams -evil-? What mockery this?
A woman of courage, will and reform.
World peace she fought for, public health too
Suffrage, not suffering, she strived for that true.
No matter now, since Scum-dead she does be.
Scum-water Scum-smaller Scum-splatter yucky.
Social work? Poison. 'Not me' she could say
'Murder by mercy' still agony pays.
Verily, mercy she had in her to give
But evil were all those she wanted to live
Fast did she work, slow did she shirk
But please read her posts, count all the quirks!
Did she trick someone? Did she betray?
I don't get how this works, what could she say:
Awareness, such careness, Public Health Day
Public murder rather, try to protect and you'll slay.
Post by: webadict on December 06, 2013, 07:04:19 pm
"Nah, I bet it was a demon," says Johnny.
"Mhm, along with Elvis, right?" Sam smiles.
"Nah, get dis, so there's a few a them claw marks righ' here," Johnny points at the picture, "and ya can't tell me tha' that--" Johnny points at another picture. "--ain't no outline o' no demon."
Sam and Quinn exchange glances. Sam rolls his eyes, and Quinn laughs.
"Screw you guys." Johnny storms off.
Nerjin has been killed!
Nerjin was Revolver Ocelot (town).
Vote Count
------------------------
Deathsword -
notquitethere -
Shakerag -
TheWetSheep -
Toaster -
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Shakerag, Deathsword, TheWetSheep, Toaster, notquitethere,
3 To Hammer. Day ends Tuesday 8 PM Central.
Quote
Nerjin - Revolver Ocelot
(1-Shot, Auto) Quickshot: If you are targeted by a kill action, you kill the attacker(s). You then revive.
(Day) Smooth Talk [target]: You only need one thing from the target: His vote. You steal it, granting you one additional vote and the target one fewer. Any abilities that the target has affecting votes affect your stolen one.
Post by: Toaster on December 06, 2013, 10:50:14 pm
I *was* Minecraft. I had three abilities, all of which were two-shot:
Iron Golem: A night protect.
Spawn Villager: A day action that gave the target an additional night action.
Enchant: A day OR night action that enhanced the abilities of the target. The ability outright states that it only works on some people.
D1 I did nothing, having no strong leads.
N1 I protected Hapah, as claimed.
D2 I also did nothing. I'm bad at picking town players, so this role was really a mismatch for me.
N2 I enchanted Nerjin. I felt pretty sure at that point he was town. That night I gained a randomize.
D3 I was considering my options when my role switched- Sheep (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4789916#msg4789916) gave me his role. For the record, he got my randomize too.
His role claim was pretty much spot on, but for the record, my role is now BYOR 13.
Future Almanac: Night inspect.
Time Paradox: Day action where I permanently steal a vote from the future, but it implies bad things happening when it is used.
BYOR Switcharoo: Role switch, which is used.
N3 I inspected Shakerag again, because he was my top suspect anyway. I got blocked, and something else happened that I'm keeping my mouth shut about until someone else claims.
Claim up, folks.
Post by: TheWetSheep on December 06, 2013, 11:27:32 pm
N1: Inspect Imp, no PM result
D3: Nothing
N2: Inspect Shakerag, Mafia result
D3: Roleswitch Toaster, became Minecraft
N4: Protect Toaster, was roleblocked
There's something else, but I need to ask Webadict something first.
Interesting: Two roleblocks in one night with 6 players?
Post by: Toaster on December 07, 2013, 12:25:38 am
Post by: notquitethere on December 07, 2013, 03:34:40 am
Just a heads up: I'm going to an adventure games convention this weekend so I won't be able to post much until Monday.
I am Poirot - I chose Poirot because I enjoy the investigative aspect of the game and I hoped to get a role that would allow me to deductively work out the scum. Unfortunately, a combination of the role not being as useful as I'd have liked and plain bad luck has meant I've learned very little so far this game. I have three abilities:
Little Grey Cells: This is an auto ability that lets me know whether I've been redirected, blocked or randomised as it tells me the name of my eventual target if I have one.
Exactement! [target]: This is a night ability that allows me to learn one random ability of the target.
Belgium Detection [target]: This is a one shot night ability. If I successfully target a member of the Mafia, they are killed. But if I target town, they are protected instead. I guess it's supposed to mimic how novel and TV detectives are always right in the end (though I would have called it Denouement).
My game plan was to use Exactement the first few nights to see who had scummy abilities and then Belgium Detect at LYLO. Unfortunately, the first part of that plan hasn't worked at all.
N1: Exactement on The Iqovian: he was my top scumpick at that point and I wanted to know more about him. I wasn't redirected, blocked or randomised as his name came back as my target (via Little Grey Cells) but I got no results back. It didn't strike me as likely that he had no powers, so I figured something weird had happened but then he was modkilled the next day anyway.
N2: I decided to test Birdy's claim, because if I could settle that then discussion could move forward. Unfortunately I was randomised or redirected (I strongly suspect it was Imp's randomise) and I learned that Tiruin had her protecting Hull House ability. That one sounded pretty town so it's good job she was also killed that night as I probably would have ruled her as unlikely to be scum.
N3: Last night I decided to follow up on Toaster's role claim. However, I was blocked: I know this because I got no name back from using Exactement!, and Little Grey Cells would have told me a name if I'd successfully managed an inspect (as on N1).
Post by: webadict on December 07, 2013, 10:53:19 am
------------------------
Deathsword -
notquitethere -
Shakerag -
TheWetSheep -
Toaster -
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Shakerag, Deathsword, TheWetSheep, notquitethere,
3 To Hammer. Day ends Tuesday 8 PM Central.
Post by: TheWetSheep on December 07, 2013, 11:01:28 am
There's something else, but I need to ask Webadict something first.OK, so I got my answer back. I tried to use my action that would allow the target to use two night actions on Toaster D3 too, but I didn't know that I could only use one action per day, never having had a role that would allow me to do that before. It didn't work.
Why'd you target who you targeted?Inspects I've already given reasons for. For the role-switch, you were a strong player who had claimed some abilities, and I had a slight town read on you. I thought that if you were scum I would know it from your role, and if not then the town would have its inspect safe and unknown from scum. I tried to give you two actions because two inspects would be incredibly powerful in 5-person lylo. And I protected you so that you wouldn't die and lose the information.
3 roleblocks? Maybe a mass-roleblock scum ability?
Anyway, here are some interesting timestamps:
Quote from: webadict in day-start post
« Reply #662 on: December 06, 2013, 07:04:19 pm »
Quote from: Deathsword's profile
Last Active: December 06, 2013, 08:55:19 pm
Quote from: Shakerag's profile
Last Active: Today at 10:07:57 am
Busy or scum trying to decide on good fakeclaims? I guess it's the weekend, though.
Post by: Teneb on December 07, 2013, 12:54:47 pm
Passive ability: I see everyone who targeted my target.
(One-shot) I can kill someone. Used N1 on Cheeetar. Shakerag actioned him, I assume with a protect.
(One-shot) I can restore all one-shot powers of another player. Not used.
(One-shot) I give another player a one-shot revive. Tried to give to shakerag N2, but was blocked. Used N3 on Toster. Did not get any message related to the passive, inquired webaddict about it.
Post by: Toaster on December 07, 2013, 01:28:31 pm
I got blocked, and something else happened that I'm keeping my mouth shut about until someone else claims.
(One-shot) I give another player a one-shot revive. Tried to give to shakerag N2, but was blocked. Used N3 on Toster. Did not get any message related to the passive, inquired webaddict about it.
This is what I was waiting for.
Also, somehow I lost my vote. See its lack in the latest votecount (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=129509.msg4817838#msg4817838). I'm going to use my ability to get another, so if I blow up you know what happened.
Post by: Toaster on December 07, 2013, 01:45:32 pm
Sheep:
N1: Inspect Imp, no PM result
D3: Nothing
N2: Inspect Shakerag, Mafia result
D3: Roleswitch Toaster, became Minecraft
N4: Protect Toaster, was roleblocked
I think your numbers are a bit jacked up. Remind me- did you ever use your vote ability?
Post by: Teneb on December 07, 2013, 03:05:21 pm
Post by: Shakerag on December 07, 2013, 10:30:37 pm
Anyway, here are some interesting timestamps:Quote from: webadict in day-start post« Reply #662 on: December 06, 2013, 07:04:19 pm »Quote from: Deathsword's profileLast Active: December 06, 2013, 08:55:19 pmQuote from: Shakerag's profileLast Active: Today at 10:07:57 am
Busy or scum trying to decide on good fakeclaims? I guess it's the weekend, though.
Secondly, I almost never post on weekends, and I'm busy most of the rest of the time. Haven't we been over this before? I try to make at least one (if not more than one) fairly substantial post per weekday.Quit being lazy scum, TWS.
Look at what you made me do. I'm posting on the weekend.
Post by: Nerjin on December 07, 2013, 10:57:48 pm
Post by: TheWetSheep on December 07, 2013, 11:12:52 pm
But yeah, you're scum. If you weren't, you'd be handing scum the perfect opportunity to quickhammer me. Why vote me on such a trivial thing? I even gave a concession for it being the weekend.
Good news: I didn't blow up or anything. Apparently there's some sort of roll for what happens when that ability is used. My result was pretty good, so I got a vote *and* am now inspect immune.Yeah, I screwed up. Fixed in the quote. No, I didn't use the vote ability. But inspect immune? The only way I can see that being good is if you're scum.
Sheep:N1: Inspect Imp, no PM result
D2: Nothing
N2: Inspect Shakerag, Mafia result
D3: Roleswitch Toaster, became Minecraft
N3: Protect Toaster, was roleblocked
I think your numbers are a bit jacked up. Remind me- did you ever use your vote ability?
Post by: Toaster on December 08, 2013, 12:07:49 am
Sheep: You realize Shake's was the only vote, right?
Also, I can't imagine Web coming up with the effect on the fly. It'd have to be a chosen aspect from the role itself, meaning it came from you, not me.
Post by: notquitethere on December 08, 2013, 04:37:07 am
Good job no else has two votes, eh Sheep?
What time is it Wuba?
Post by: Teneb on December 08, 2013, 09:19:35 am
Yeah something just doesn't add up about this Sheep, the mafia needs three votes total to hammer you.Did you just hammer? Damn it NQT, you scumbag.
Good job no else has two votes, eh Sheep?
What time is it Wuba?
Post by: webadict on December 08, 2013, 02:38:25 pm
"Hmm, this wasn't how the game was supposed to go at all," says Toaster and TheWetSheep in sync. They both proceed to call jinx on each other, silencing them for eternity. Well, that, and the fact that Shakerag kills Toaster with a briefcase and TheWetSheep bleeds to death from being shot. Somewhere far away, you can hear someone laughing (HEHAHEHAHEHA)
Deathsword raises his gun, but
A problem has been detected and Windows has been shut down to prevent damage to your computer.
"FUCK THIS GAME!" Deathsword storms off, shattering the mouse against the wall and slamming the door.
notquitethere takes the form of Tiruin and cheers for the scum team. It's the next best thing to actually being alive!
Game Over.
Imp (survivor), notquitethere (mafia), Shakerag (mafia), and Tiruin (mafia) win!
Vote Count
------------------------
Deathsword -
notquitethere -
Shakerag -
TheWetSheep - the mafia team
Toaster -
No Lynch -
Not Voting - Shakerag, Deathsword, TheWetSheep, notquitethere,
3 To Hammer. Day ends RIGHT NOT.
HAHEHAHEHAHEHAHEHAHEHAHEHA, I IS BEST PRANKSTER, HOOMANS.
Post by: webadict on December 08, 2013, 02:40:20 pm
Spoiler: Roles (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Most Actions (click to show/hide)
Post by: notquitethere on December 08, 2013, 03:08:51 pm
Despite accidentally murdering my own team mate and taking their form, and Tiruin targeting the same person as the doctor in her doctor inverting one-shot, and Shake accidentally gifting town a random randomise, Team Scum valiantly won the day through careful appraisal of people's role claims and some canny strategising. It was the plan from Day 1 to keep Nerjin alive and kill him for his role to break LYLO. Glad the demon took care of his one-shot PGO!
Post by: Nerjin on December 08, 2013, 03:24:36 pm
Furthermore I'm very sad... Oh well, good job Scum.
Post by: ToonyMan on December 08, 2013, 03:28:42 pm
Post by: Tiruin on December 08, 2013, 03:34:18 pm
So how did Imp win again?:( ...
Furthermore I'm very sad... Oh well, good job Scum.
Deadchat (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/MuRgNMenEMj)
Scumchat (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/cB9WQ6zdYK4V)
Post by: webadict on December 08, 2013, 03:51:52 pm
How is no one getting this?!?
Post by: Tiruin on December 08, 2013, 04:10:57 pm
Quote
Survivor
Imp - Imp
(Auto) Avatar Of Pranks: When you win, you summon forth your master, the Prankster Demon. And naturally, like all demons, his idea of a prank is killing people. Because it’s HILARIOUS. At the end of each Day, after the lynch, the Prankster Demon randomly kills a player. You may also, during the Night, post about how hilarious anyone’s death was.
(Auto) Trickster: You receive a list of all players that targeted you. One of these players is randomly redirected to some other poor sap.
(1-Shot, Night) Disillusionment: All players are enchanted. Enchanted players randomly target players during this Night.
Quote
Alignment: SurvivorWhile I'd be talking about 'perhaps its the Survivor label' that makes people think such..
Wincon: You win when another alignment wins while you are alive or you are the only remaining player.
...I'm unsure if another alignment but Mafia won at the time. Cheeetar didn't lynch his target.
Post by: notquitethere on December 08, 2013, 04:20:41 pm
Quote from: Cheetar in Deadchat
I like mass roleclaims. I very much like how Poirot is empowered as a role- I hope NQT isn't just making it up.Sorry Cheetar, I'm just quite good at making up roles! I'd definitely have liked to have played as Poirot, but first I wanted to be a Changeling. I chose to be a Changeling in the last King Mafia and the power failed to work on N1 and I was lynched D2 so I never got to do anything with it. I was pleased how well it worked out tactically in this game.
Post by: webadict on December 08, 2013, 04:36:00 pm
*checks*Imp's wincon was set to survive to Day 3. It seemed to fit Survivor better than Watcher.QuoteSurvivor
Imp - Imp
(Auto) Avatar Of Pranks: When you win, you summon forth your master, the Prankster Demon. And naturally, like all demons, his idea of a prank is killing people. Because it’s HILARIOUS. At the end of each Day, after the lynch, the Prankster Demon randomly kills a player. You may also, during the Night, post about how hilarious anyone’s death was.
(Auto) Trickster: You receive a list of all players that targeted you. One of these players is randomly redirected to some other poor sap.
(1-Shot, Night) Disillusionment: All players are enchanted. Enchanted players randomly target players during this Night.QuoteAlignment: SurvivorWhile I'd be talking about 'perhaps its the Survivor label' that makes people think such..
Wincon: You win when another alignment wins while you are alive or you are the only remaining player.
...I'm unsure if another alignment but Mafia won at the time. Cheeetar didn't lynch his target.
Also, it doesn't really matter which wincon she was set as.
Post by: Tiruin on December 08, 2013, 04:38:39 pm
Post by: webadict on December 08, 2013, 05:07:42 pm
...So a neutral watcher? Isn't that what a Watcher is that a Survivor also shares? Third Party. Only difference in alignment name?Yes.
Post by: notquitethere on December 08, 2013, 05:22:29 pm
Post by: Imp on December 08, 2013, 06:14:17 pm
*checks*QuoteSurvivor
Imp - Imp
(Auto) Avatar Of Pranks: When you win, you summon forth your master, the Prankster Demon. And naturally, like all demons, his idea of a prank is killing people. Because it’s HILARIOUS. At the end of each Day, after the lynch, the Prankster Demon randomly kills a player. You may also, during the Night, post about how hilarious anyone’s death was.
(Auto) Trickster: You receive a list of all players that targeted you. One of these players is randomly redirected to some other poor sap.
(1-Shot, Night) Disillusionment: All players are enchanted. Enchanted players randomly target players during this Night.QuoteAlignment: SurvivorWhile I'd be talking about 'perhaps its the Survivor label' that makes people think such..
Wincon: You win when another alignment wins while you are alive or you are the only remaining player.
...I'm unsure if another alignment but Mafia won at the time. Cheeetar didn't lynch his target.
I was confused by this too, initially.
My PM with Wubba about that confusion:
I want to double check that I am specifically a survivor. I don't know if this matters or not for gameplay, and I believe I understand my wincon, but it appears to clash with my role name. In your OP, under the alignments spoiler you make these definitions:You are specifically a Survivor. A Watcher doesn't need to be alive.
Alignment: Watcher
Wincon: You win when the game reaches Day [day_number].
Alignment: Survivor
Wincon: You win when another alignment wins while you are alive or you are the only remaining player.You are a Survivor. You win if you are alive at the beginning of Day 3.
I guess this only matters in how I think and in what result any investigator might gain if I am successfully investigated -
But am I actually a Survivor, and not a Watcher?
I have to say, I'm incredibly grateful for this Wincon. I understood what to do, I thought I could maybe do it, and I had... fun with it after I'd won. This role taught me that Mafia -can- indeed be fun!
NQT, grats on your win, guy. About time and here's to many more wins for you!
And Tiruin, I was apparently -not- a neutral third party. Shakerag's targeting of 'enemies' N1 targeted -me-. So I was Scum enemy, apparently.
Post by: notquitethere on December 08, 2013, 06:19:01 pm
Post by: Toaster on December 08, 2013, 06:21:30 pm
Also, the NQT Curse is broken- congrats.
Post by: Cheeetar on December 08, 2013, 07:25:35 pm
Quote from: notquitethere
I find it funny that Cheetar fakeclaimed Ned Stark when he was really Littlefinger. Well played Cheet (apart from the getting-yourself-lynched thing). Presumably his target was Nerjin.
Yes! Somebody got it- My death was worth it!
Post by: Imp on December 08, 2013, 07:32:45 pm
Quote from: notquitethereI find it funny that Cheetar fakeclaimed Ned Stark when he was really Littlefinger. Well played Cheet (apart from the getting-yourself-lynched thing). Presumably his target was Nerjin.
Yes! Somebody got it- My death was worth it!
Um? Wasn't I your lynch target. Cheeetar?
Post by: Cheeetar on December 08, 2013, 07:33:24 pm
Quote from: notquitethereI find it funny that Cheetar fakeclaimed Ned Stark when he was really Littlefinger. Well played Cheet (apart from the getting-yourself-lynched thing). Presumably his target was Nerjin.
Yes! Somebody got it- My death was worth it!
Um? Wasn't I your lynch target. Cheeetar?
Well, he was wrong about the target, but he understood the little thing I did that I was so proud of myself for.
Post by: TolyK on December 09, 2013, 08:00:25 am
But it was fun seeing this go down in flames. :P
GG.
Post by: Shakerag on December 09, 2013, 10:09:17 am
Also, the NQT Curse is broken- congrats.This.
Also, we so lucked out on that win. I thought we were royally screwed from D3 onwards.
Post by: notquitethere on December 09, 2013, 10:16:54 am
Also, the NQT Curse is broken- congrats.
Thanks you guys!Also, the NQT Curse is broken- congrats.This.
Also, we so lucked out on that win. I thought we were royally screwed from D3 onwards.It was certainly lucky that Nerjin and the demon eliminated one another as a threat.
Post by: Tiruin on December 09, 2013, 10:23:58 am
Post by: notquitethere on December 09, 2013, 10:32:13 am
Post by: birdy51 on December 09, 2013, 12:10:48 pm
Ultimately, it seems that I have failed. :(
Oh well! Good game scum team.
Post by: Shakerag on December 09, 2013, 01:38:31 pm
I figured NQT got redirected, and since Tiruin died my gift went to a random person, and that the inspect on me got through normally.
In hindsight, the second item there should have tipped me off.
The RNG was a bit of a dick this game.
Post by: webadict on December 09, 2013, 10:02:23 pm
Oh man, I feel embarassed. I didn't think Imp's randomize went off N2 for some reason, so I was trying to pretend it did. When it actually did.What are you talking about? The RNG balances this game for me.
I figured NQT got redirected, and since Tiruin died my gift went to a random person, and that the inspect on me got through normally.
In hindsight, the second item there should have tipped me off.
The RNG was a bit of a dick this game.
In case you haven't figured it out yet, this is my secret.
Post by: Tiruin on December 09, 2013, 10:03:06 pm
Post by: webadict on December 09, 2013, 10:06:08 pm
PS: I know Webadict's secret :PPS: I know YOUR secret.
Post by: TolyK on December 10, 2013, 07:20:46 am
Post by: Nerjin on December 10, 2013, 02:45:24 pm
Post by: webadict on December 10, 2013, 06:26:56 pm
My secret is that I plan to steal this game from web. In fact, I think I'll do it now BYOR 13 (http://none)Let's work on Smstr instead!
Post by: Mephansteras on December 11, 2013, 08:23:33 pm
Post by: Nerjin on December 12, 2013, 03:50:50 am
My secret is that I plan to steal this game from web. In fact, I think I'll do it now BYOR 13 (http://none)Let's work on Smstr instead!
Hm, you're eloquent wording has convinced me that BYOR 13 should remain undone for now and safely in your hands.
Post by: TheWetSheep on December 12, 2013, 05:10:54 pm
Now that this is over, one of you fine people should replace into Paranormal 23!I guess I could, but I'll be away for about a week starting Christmas. Is that a problem?
Post by: Mephansteras on December 12, 2013, 05:57:20 pm
Post by: TheWetSheep on December 12, 2013, 07:44:21 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on December 12, 2013, 07:50:10 pm
Christmas to January 3rd.
Sadly, that's probably too long of an absence.